# Don Peay as Secretary of Interior



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I was reading an article today about something related and saw this quote from Senator Mike Lee speaking about the possibility of Don Peay getting this cabinet position:

"That would be fantastic, for what that's worth ... I'm not sure where Donald Trump will look in terms of his Cabinet. But, yeah, I'd love to see Don Peay in interior. I'd love to see any Utahn in interior, and especially Don Peay,"

The Secretary of the Interior does not make Wildlife management policy decisions for states, but obviously can have huge influence in this arena. How do you think this would impact big game hunting in Utah? (Or even surrounding states?)


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

If Mike Lee likes t and Don Peay is involved it won't be good for public lands or hunting.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Yeah, I posted this news report on another thread here. It suggested the same thing.

http://kutv.com/news/local/utah-sportsman-credits-hunters-with-helping-tip-scales-to-trump

I've also heard Sarah Palin's name floated as Interior secretary. I'm not sure I have much enthusiasm for either one. If I had to predict a DP administration, I would say it would be a negative for those that favor management based on the North American model and it would likely be negative for public land hunting and fishing access and the "land grab". (I base this on DP's actions in the stream access battle.)


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Good heaven's,

IMO, these are some REALLY good choices considering what would have been with Hillary:!:


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

I think Pres-Elect Donald is just saying "thank you" to Utah for being the reddest of the red states.

I agree that between Donald and Hillary, Donald is the lesser of two weevils.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I think it would be awesome.
Maybe we could have a special draw hunt in out national parks.
How cool would that be?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Oh wait, our national parks will be sold off to the highest bidder.
Never mind.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I think Oklahoma was the reddest state of all as in no blue showing anywhere.

Mr. Trump will surround himself with sound people who understands the flow of DC and not some amateur hack like Peay.

Please write Mike Lee and tell him to sit down and shut up.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> ... and not some amateur hack like Peay.


I hate Peay and all he stands for, but he's been working his way into politics for quite a while.










-DallanC


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

And then there is this one: http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/fea...umored-for-possible-trump-administration-jobs


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

How much impact can the secretary of the interior have on wildlife management policies across the country?

I'm not sure Don's influence can actually increase here in Utah. I think it probably is already at "whatever he wants" as it is right now. But will this impact other states? Or is it really me worrying about something I shouldn't be?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Call me crazy but I'm moving this thing out of Big Game. 

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

-DallanC


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Call me crazy but I'm moving this thing out of Big Game.
> 
> .


.........................................


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A few thoughts.

1.


goofy elk said:


> IMO, these are some REALLY good choices considering what would have been with Hillary:!:


There would have been a number of possible appointees from a Hillary administration, as well as SCOTUS nominees, that I would have strongly disliked. However, Interior secretary would not be one of them. Such is life when you are a green leaning "conservative", but I do believe that an administration that gives a crap about the environment will produce better fishing and hunting in the long run.

2. RE: And then there is this one: http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/feat...istration-job

I would be happy to see Hughes out of the legislature so Trump could make my day by picking him for Transportation. Mike Noel as BLM director would be highly entertaining yet sad as heck at the same time. Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse. :roll:

3. RE"Maybe we could have a special draw hunt in out national parks.
How cool would that be?"

I always wanted to hunt deer in that orchard in Zions. Maybe they will issue some permits before they sell it to the Chinese.

4. RE: " I'm not sure Don's influence can actually increase here in Utah. I think it probably is already at "whatever he wants" as it is right now. But will this impact other states? Or is it really me worrying about something I shouldn't be?"

I've wondered the same thing and have no brilliant insight in how it would be, but I do know this. I've been disgusted by most of his actions in the recent past here and I doubt I will feel much different about his policy and actions on a national stage.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I can totally understand how asking a question how something will impact big game hunting would not belong in the big game forum. 

Makes total sense...


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> I can totally understand how asking a question how something will impact big game hunting would not belong in the big game forum.
> 
> Makes total sense...


OK, call me crazy. I didn't read the last sentence in your post.

My apologies.

.


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

If it wasn't for Don we would all still be debating why the deer herd is the pits with 5/100 B/D ratios and the second best cougar population next to California. I'm not saying he's the genius that figured out capacity predators and hot spotting was suppressing the deer herd. But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

High Desert Elk said:


> I think Oklahoma was the reddest state of all as in no blue showing anywhere.
> 
> Mr. Trump will surround himself with sound people who understands the flow of DC and not some amateur hack like Peay.
> 
> Please write Mike Lee and tell him to sit down and shut up.


You are correct, for 2016.

McM had a lot to do with this statistic however.

Had McM not jumped in then the GOP was likely to get his votes and then Utah would have been 68% GOP with Okla being 65%.

Lots of GOP states exceeded Utah in 2016, unlike in 2012 when no state did.

I stand corrected on the stats.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

ceedub said:


> If it wasn't for Don we would all still be debating why the deer herd is the pits with 5/100 B/D ratios and the second best cougar population next to California. I'm not saying he's the genius that figured out capacity predators and hot spotting was suppressing the deer herd. But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


That means there are doe's that will not mate, and lions that will devour a whole lot of deer, if true.

I know that in California the lions are everywhere and even encroaching on the suburbs. A single lion kills about 50 deer per year -- one each week.

Very few places have deer in California anymore -- Ft Hunter Liggett being one of the few, mainly because the military activity there seems to disrupt the lions, while the deer are at home in close quarters with the US Army training there.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Don Peay is power broker and lobbyist, plain and simple. His appointment would be antithetical to #draintheswamp and the populist sentiment that defined this election. To make matters worse he supports using public money for private organizations with little to no transparency. It would a hypocritical choice with that theme alone. He is the epitome of chronyism.

For hunters, Peay's platform and history is antagonistic to the North American model that is the foundation of public access to wildlife. If he remains consistent his appointment to the Interior would undermine access to millions of acres if public land. It would erode a tradition that centers access and wildlife management with the citizen, hunter and fisherman that has protected some of the best, most affordable, and essily accessible wildlife in the world. 

His appointment would be a noticeable statement against the everyday man to favor the monied and elite.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

I Think Mr peay is a Horrible, Horrible, choice..Bout like putting Doyle Moss in charge of anything. With all the land all the land Wh---- we have here. Put them in charge of more is a BIG Mistake., Don Peay.. OMG Be like trying to follow HC money trail. Just sayin..


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

ridgetop said:


> I think it would be awesome.
> Maybe we could have a special draw hunt in out national parks.
> How cool would that be?


Draw? Peay aint about no draws. He will gladly sell a tag in zions, or bryce at the expo to make the parks "profitable". I will be about creating more opportunity, but not for your slobs, only for the "whales".


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

ceedub said:


> If it wasn't for Don we would all still be debating why the deer herd is the pits with 5/100 B/D ratios and the second best cougar population next to California. I'm not saying he's the genius that figured out capacity predators and hot spotting was suppressing the deer herd. But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


It is 2016. $fw started in what, the early 90's. Peay, being the biological genius that he is took about 30 years to give us this "dream" season. Pay no attention to the nearly 0 winter kill the last 3 years, which coincidentally seems to be about the same average(2 1/2 yr old bucks) as the deer being killed this year. It was Peay, 30 years, 10's of millions of dollars that have vanished, but, lets pay no attention to any of that, the mans a genius!!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Good heaven's,
> 
> IMO, these are some REALLY good choices considering what would have been with Hillary:!:


BS....almost anybody Hillary would have chosen would have been better for hunting and fishing than what Don Peay would be. Don Peay is about putting the land into the control of the wealthiest people out there and destroying public lands and public land hunters. Hate Hillary all you want...Lord knows, I do. But, her pick for secretary of the interior would not be nearly as bad as someone like Peay or Noel.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

ceedub said:


> If it wasn't for Don we would all still be debating why the deer herd is the pits with 5/100 B/D ratios and the second best cougar population next to California. I'm not saying he's the genius that figured out capacity predators and hot spotting was suppressing the deer herd. But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


Also BS....the only thing SFW has done for our deer herds is take our opportunity to hunt them away. Sorry, but the recent years of good weather have helped give our deer herds a positive bump...a couple really cold wet winters with lots of snow and some dry summers could destroy all that really quickly....regardless of how many cougars or coyotes there are.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

ceedub said:


> *But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR* we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


Anyone else a little troubled by this statement? If it wasn't true that SFW "mandated the policy changes" to the DWR, I wouldn't pay any attention to it. However, I think ceedub nailed it, and it is really scary that SFW is able to do that.

I think Don Peay in any governmental capacity is a recipe for disaster. I've sat in meetings with him. I've talked face to face with him on the issues. He is not for the public hunter, period. He will admit that. Again, I'm not sure how much influence over big game hunting issues the Secretary of the Interior really has, but I have to think it is some. Anyone that is more informed on this can assist to see how bad this could really get if he was selected.


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

Just the facts. 

This email signaled the polocy changes contrary to what we were doing for 29 years. Predator control and unit by unit hunter management. 

Maybe he got lucky I doubt it. Maybe he's the greatest weatherman on earth and just knew we would have so called perfect deer weather and decided to try and take credit for deer herd improvements. I doubt that to.


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/#/forumsite/20520/topics/32450?page=1


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

ceedub said:


> Just the facts.
> 
> This email signaled the polocy changes contrary to what we were doing for 29 years. Predator control and unit by unit hunter management.
> 
> Maybe he got lucky I doubt it. Maybe he's the greatest weatherman on earth and just knew we would have so called perfect deer weather and decided to try and take credit for deer herd improvements. I doubt that to.


The only problem with your assertion is that we were already on the way up prior to unit by unit hunter management....also, the hayday of Utah deer hunting had, not coincidentally, the lowest buck/doe ratios that Utah has ever seen, the highest number of hunters, and general statewide deer hunting. But, nevermind the past, right?


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

And don't look know but it is/was those who drink the habitat koolaid who has given him the vehicle to hijack Utah's wildlife polocy. 

What other state has sold off public wildlife to enrich conservation groups to the extent we have? For what? Millions and milllions poured into habitat. Are to believe that these millions are directly responsible for our recent deer increase. Or did the benefit elk? Turkey? Grouse? Bear? 

I can't help but think we are only marginally better off as a result of millions poured into habitat. Especially considering many other states with great hunting don't prescribe to that gospel.


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

I did shoot a few roosters on Election Day. 

I suppose I could thank SFW for that also.


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

The only problem with your assertion is that we were already on the way up prior to unit by unit hunter management....also, the hayday of Utah deer hunting had, not coincidentally, the lowest buck/doe ratios that Utah has ever seen, the highest number of hunters, and general statewide deer hunting. But, nevermind the past, right?

Do you have any records to support that? I would love to see B/D ratio records that go back that far. More importantly I'd like to see population estimates going back that far also. 

Many of the things you mentioned that were present during the "hay day" of deer hunting were present during the worst of days also.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

ceedub said:


> Many of the things you mentioned that were present during the "hay day" of deer hunting were present during the worst of days also.


Do you have any records to support that?


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

It's all here. ?

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-i...-permits/1697-annual-and-harvest-reports.html


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Thats not how supporting a debatable concept works. You made a strong comment about Peay's responsibility for creating the current hunting climate. Now you have to show evidence.

Your last comment is equivalent to me providing a link to google.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

ceedub said:


> It's all here. ?


Is that a statement or a question?


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## Bucksnort (Nov 15, 2007)

Ridiculous... Typical of anti-science republicans. Let's put a bio-chemist in charge of our natural resources. There are plenty of natural resource trained candidates that could fulfill the position. 
Sarah Palin...I wouldn't put her in charge of a girl scout troop. She is an unstable imbecile. Oh wait, I guess the new POTUS is too.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## ceedub (Oct 25, 2016)

Is that a statement or a question?

That's a statement 

What's to prove? He called for it and it happened. 

Hunting was the pits at the turn of the century and so was B/D ratios. I'm curious to know what the hunter deer ratio was during the hay day.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

ceedub said:


> Is that a statement or a question?
> 
> That's a statement
> 
> ...


By that logic the KSL meterologist isn't just forecasting weather but also responsible for it.

Show us his claim (hypothesis), his tangible influence (the experiment) and the results that so clearly define his success. Wildlife management is largely a science so that shouldn't be a difficult expectation to satisfy. And the expectation is a written record of his statements, the implementation and results. And to be clear, I will also want to see how one can extrapolate this relationship/success outside of other variables like climate, habitat changes, etc. To be clear, I want to see clear evidence of causation, not just weak correlation.

Up to the challenge of supporting your claim in public, Ceedub?


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> I hate Peay and all he stands for, but he's been working his way into politics for quite a while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Photoshop! if not amateur, novice maybe?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Bannon, Prebus, and oil executives, political insiders, and climate change denying appointees to "protect" our environment. Guess what sportsmen, you kept your guns but your gonna get screwed the next 4 years by your savior who didn't drain the swamp but pulled the most disgusting creatures from it to sit on his cabinet. At this point with possible appointees and the current ones he's chosen you saved those guns that have never been taken, but your wildlife and access and the environment you depend on to live are headed down a scary path of getting screwed. When he said drain the swamp I think he meant t quite literally, he's going to drain the swamp the ducks we hunt sit on.


As I've already stated, I'm no fan of DP (or Sarah Palin for that matter) and am cautiously concerned about what the Trump presidency means overall for hunting and fishing. That said, I don't know that we need to rant and run around like a chicken with our head cut off either. The truth is, we simply do not know, especially with Trump. As a political "outsider" he especially brings a lot of unknowns. I would remind you that both times Obama won, we heard similar rants that all of the guns would be taken away. Guess what, it didn't happen. The only thing that did happen was that the paranoid emptied the gun store shelves of the ammo and components we wanted to buy.

We still should be vigilant and watch how things turn out closely and fight when the time comes, but I might suggest that it does ones mental health (or the country) no good to rant, protest, and lose inordinate amounts of sleep before anything really begins to happen.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm not losing any sleep over it. Mostly just trying to figure out how big of an impact, if any, this could potentially have. 

I will say, however, that if you wait to get into the fight until things have already started, you're most likely too late be able to impact/stop it.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

ceedub said:


> I can't help but think we are only marginally better off as a result of millions poured into habitat. Especially considering many other states with great hunting don't prescribe to that gospel.


Like which states? You need to do more reading...start here:

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...ublications2/NA Mule Deer Cons Plan Final.pdf

Then, read this:

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ...Mule Deer/Publications2/Mule Deer Changes.pdf

The above documents were created by the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies...it is a cooperative association made up of members from every state agency in the West. All of the states in the West prescribe to the theory of habitat degradation as part of the mule deer problem.

Also, FWIW, great mule deer hunting and great mule deer populations are not synonymous. In other words, you can have great mule deer hunting and a crappy mule deer herd. We have seen this over the years with the Henry's herd and with hunting in Colorado--both areas have had some really high buck/doe ratios but overall herd numbers that are below objectives. In fact, Colorado had lost more deer since restricting deer hunters than Utah had total....In Utah, mule deer hunting has improved because fewer tags have been given out and more bucks are present. Fortunately, mule deer herd numbers have also moved up in the past few years...but that doesn't mean we can't and won't have a crash.

As for the history of deer hunting in Utah, the peak years were the mid to late 80s....when we peaked with around 250,000 deer hunters or the mid 60s when we were harvesting 125,000 or so deer. Either way, deer populations crashed in the winter of 92-93.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I will say, however, that if you wait to get into the fight until things have already started, you're most likely too late be able to impact/stop it.


Sure, but if we don't know what it is we are fighting against, then we aren't likely to be terribly effective or have much credibility if we are "fighting".

So far, all I've heard about DP have been rumors, mostly generated by the local media. This happens every election cycle and a majority of the rumors do not come to fruition.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I liked the mention of Noel. Especially that he resigned from the BLM because "he couldn't take it any more...".

What couldn't he take?

Oh, probably his work load. Like when he was supposed to transfer land over to the state for a fish hatchery at Wahweap -- which he never completed. Before he could get fired, he resigned. This move cost sportsmen of Utah about $1,000,000 when the State ended up having to purchase the land because Noel never completed the paper work....

....couldn't take it any more. Ugh. I hope those articles are simply Utah media trying to make our politicians look important. I hope none of these losers are appointed to anything...


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

The proponents of these land transfers push this for political favor in their home states in order to try and secure a job. Obviously, in UT, there is gain by being in bed with the state governor and SFW. On a federal level, the loss in revenue would be too great and I highly doubt it will truly happen. Lands transferred would be those that have a very small use impact by people as in desolate desert type areas. The EO issued for some 700,000 acres for the construction of windfarms are lands such as these and a windfarm will not happen without an extensive EA and NEPA analysis.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Catherder said:


> As I've already stated, I'm no fan of DP (or Sarah Palin for that matter) and am cautiously concerned about what the Trump presidency means overall for hunting and fishing. That said, I don't know that we need to rant and run around like a chicken with our head cut off either. The truth is, we simply do not know, especially with Trump. As a political "outsider" he especially brings a lot of unknowns. I would remind you that both times Obama won, we heard similar rants that all of the guns would be taken away. Guess what, it didn't happen. The only thing that did happen was that the paranoid emptied the gun store shelves of the ammo and components we wanted to buy.
> 
> We still should be vigilant and watch how things turn out closely and fight when the time comes, but I might suggest that it does ones mental health (or the country) no good to rant, protest, and lose inordinate amounts of sleep before anything really begins to happen.


Sorry Cath, I deleted my post because I didn't want to get into this can of worms I decided, and that post was a little too far off base I decided. I am not as fearful of a transfer or full on disposal of federal lands in the next 4 years, but I do believe at this point it's possible, I am concerned that sportsmen and our public lands that contribute a ton to our economy and ways of life will take a back seat to industry and development yet again. So now the livestock industry, oil and gas, coal, and development get to take the lead while clean water, clean air, and wild places take the back seat. The cabinet members he's considering mean exactly that. Future generations deserve wild places, wildlife, and a planet that has been taken care of both with clean water and air. He can have a chance but this a rocky start, for several factors he's talked about in the last few days other than this....but I'll stay away from those


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I have some hope since Peay's name isn't on any of the short lists circulating outside of Utah. Its my understanding they leak those names to test the waters. 

Sadly, many of the other names are as bad.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

I am always a little suprised how things get thrown around. Currently, and for at least a while, oil is trading at under$45 a barrel. It has to be over $50 to make a break even point. The boom bust cycle is in the bust. Oil companies aren't expanding. Cattlemen, in case youve missed it, are selling out. The explosion of CWMU is one of the results. In Utah, short of the church, cattlemen don't have power or clout, and with the current crop of BLM, FS folks, they loose more everyday. That is the battle of 50 years ago. The actual battle IS with the government. The feds, while techically keepin land public, are systematically closing it off. The states, flat out would love to sell it. We as sportsmen are caught in the middle, walking that tightrope. I have watched as the state, WB($fw) have sacrificed units(nebo and manti elk as an example) in order to keep units their high dollar interests want more exclusive(pahvant, san juan). Since you can't see into the future, sometimes looking at the past is a good predictor. The Don, as a "doer" or "deal maker" I could very easily see letting vast expanses of land go back to the state in exchange for his "whale paradises" being either protected, or sold to the whales or their lobbying group $fw. I would prefer Rocky Anderson, at least we know he is just some idealist, and what he would want. The Don, he is bought and sold daily, I can't see how him in the cabinet would change that, except he would get his hands on states that so far have had the sense to keep him out.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

ceedub said:


> If it wasn't for Don we would all still be debating why the deer herd is the pits with 5/100 B/D ratios and the second best cougar population next to California. I'm not saying he's the genius that figured out capacity predators and hot spotting was suppressing the deer herd. But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


Since you are clearly a Kool-Aid fan I thought I'd mention I have recently seen some recipes for pies and cakes that use Kool-Aid. PM me if you are interested.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I should put this in the Recipe section. None of the UWN regulars go there, just visitors, so we sneak in some political BS every now and then.

Uh...continue on. Glad to see that Option2 thingie worked out OK for you fellas. We been doin' it in Wyoming for 75 years.

.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

ceedub said:


> If it wasn't for Don we would all still be debating why the deer herd is the pits with 5/100 B/D ratios and the second best cougar population next to California. I'm not saying he's the genius that figured out capacity predators and hot spotting was suppressing the deer herd. But if SFW didn't mandate policy changes to the DWR we wouldn't have had the recent good "deer" weather that has resulted in an all time high hunter satisfaction.


I notice you didn't bring up coyotes and the bounty program.

Coyotes have an interesting biological response to hunting and trapping.

They have bigger litters.

The bounty program is basically just a huge waste of money, money that could be better spent on preserving habitat.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

ceedub said:


> Just the facts.
> 
> This email signaled the polocy changes contrary to what we were doing for 29 years. Predator control and unit by unit hunter management.
> 
> Maybe he got lucky I doubt it. Maybe he's the greatest weatherman on earth and just knew we would have so called perfect deer weather and decided to try and take credit for deer herd improvements. I doubt that to.


Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, California, New Mexico, and Colorado all have better opportunities on an annual basis to hunt deer. Many of which have OTC or leftovers.

Utah with a deer heard of 300k gives out 90k permits in the general draw.

Utah is right there with Nevada as far as annual opportunity and Nevada has a lot less deer.

Utah with the CMWU and landowner tags are taking away opportunity from the public land hunter, but to some drawing a deer tag every three years is a good thing.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Karl said:


> I think Pres-Elect Donald is just saying "thank you" to Utah for being the reddest of the red states.
> 
> I agree that between Donald and Hillary, Donald is the lesser of two weevils.


Utah is not the reddest state. Summit and Salt Lake county went to Hillary.

https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/2016-election-by-county.png

West Virginia and Oklahoma are the only states that did not have a blue county.

(Alaska had blue counties not shown in the image)


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Looks like President-elect Trump has made a choice. Ryan Zinke is a congressman from Montana, and I sincerely hope this guy takes the job. He has a pretty cool background if you are interested in that stuff, but his stance on public lands and wildlife are noteworthy for our purposes. 

Here is one quote from him that is particularly important to me: 

“I will never agree with the transfer or sale of public lands,” Zinke said. “I have voted against that along with voting for the Land and Water Conservation Fund I think 17 times. I view our public lands as sacred and access to our public lands has to be part of it because we’re shutting gates, we’re closing roads and the public is losing access.”


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

That's great to hear. Thanks for the update Vanilla. Sounds like a good choice! Let's hope he takes the job!


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> Looks like President-elect Trump has made a choice. Ryan Zinke is a congressman from Montana, and I sincerely hope this guy takes the job. He has a pretty cool background if you are interested in that stuff, but his stance on public lands and wildlife are noteworthy for our purposes.
> 
> Here is one quote from him that is particularly important to me:
> 
> "I will never agree with the transfer or sale of public lands," Zinke said. "I have voted against that along with voting for the Land and Water Conservation Fund I think 17 times. I view our public lands as sacred and access to our public lands has to be part of it because we're shutting gates, we're closing roads and the public is losing access."


This is a pleasant surprise. He has been pretty firm in support of extraction industries, but I think that's part of the balance of public lands and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Multiple use and all that.....

He even had the guts to resign as a delegate during the platform writing when the transfer of federal lands was included in the party platform. Shows to me that he's not afraid to make a stand to protect public land.

This nomination makes me cautiously optimistic.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Cautious optimism with ANYTHING politically related is usually a good policy.


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