# Tips for sabot shooters



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

With all the new warp speed powders, rifles and loads out there it is good to remember that plastic residue in the barrel is a real problem for accuracy and reloading when shooting sabots. With the new hotter substitute black powders and velocities over 1700 feet per second, plasticing becomes a problem.

I have had great results with cleaning and degreasing my bore and applying a Moly coat to the inside of the bore. Next thing that really helps for both plasticing and easy of loading sabots is to place an oversized felt lubed wad over your powder charge just behind the sabot. For example, if I have a .50 caliber, I would use a .54 caliber lubed wad. Makes a world of difference and improves accuracy down range....

Good shooting ........Bigbr


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

You have piqued my curiosity; interesting concept. So, load the charge (apparently you use loose powder, correct) then a lubed wad (lubed with what? or presaturated?) and then the sabot and the wad? What do you mean by a .54 wad? I have only ever used pellets and sabots, so I am not familiar with the specific size wad; is that what is used to cover the old style steel balls?

What combination have you found to work; size of sabot and brand, amount of powder and type of rifle?

Thanks for the insight; I am still working on a winning combination; what is your group at 100 yards? I am having a heck of a time getting 3 within 8" (Omega, pyrodex pellets 120grn and numerous types of sabots; best one so far was the ???? (can't remember the name at the moment) while I hear people having tiny groups; that I just find it hard to believe with a rifle that is legally equipped (for Utah hunting) with 1x scope or open sights.


----------



## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

Speaking somewhat in bigbr's behalf; listen to what he is saying. Bigbr has some good info to share. He and I have gone the rounds about ML hunting. I still haven't turned him to the dark side yet (shooting real black powder, and patched round ball from a traditional ML). He does know his muzzy stuff, though.

He is talking about using a felt wad (thin, and yes, lubed), under the sabot. Ox yoke originals sells them (or used to, that is) I have seen them at Sportsmans. If you want better accuracy you're better off just ditching the sabot/pellet idea and just shoot loose powder with a good conical. If you are shooting the pellet/ sabot combo due to the idea that a second shot must be taken very quickly, then you should just give up the ML hunting business and go back to rifle hunting. A well placed shot (not shots) is what ML hunting is about. Placing a lubed wad under your sabot, conical, or even a patched round ball is a pretty good idea. 8)


----------



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Huge,

A pre lubed felt wad can be purchased at any major sporting good outlets, I have even bought them a Cal Ranch. Most are impregnated with Wonder lube 1000, but you can get them unlubed and coat them with what ever you desire. Caution, though, do not over do it on the lube part, you do not want powder saturation. My over size recommendation is because most sabots have a cup in the bottom and you want the prelubed felt to make contact with the bore wall and give some protection to the plastic sabot from extreme heat. For this reason I recommend stepping up on the felt wads a size in bore diameter. As in the example, if you shoot a .50 caliber the use a .54 wad size. Should you be worried about powder saturation then put in a unlubed wad under the lubed wad.

Sabots will need to be purchased as a result of your bore diameter. Not all bores are right at .50, some may be at .499 or some may be at .504. Get a set of calipers and size your sabot slug combinations accordingly. The best sabot barrels have shallow rifling and moderate twists. I am not sure what your Omega has but a 1:48 twist is useless in all application if you are trying to obtain accuracy with a conical, sabot or ball and patch. 1:20 to 28 for conical, 1:28 to 32 for sabots and 1:60 to 66 for ball and patch.

I have never been a fan of Pyrodex. In my opinion if you are going to use it you might as well use real black powder (BP), because BP ignites at a lower temperature and seems to give a more stable power curve. I like Clean Shot which is now American Pioneer.

Use sabots from 320 to 380 grains and drop back on the powder to under 100 grains. If this does not do it for you try loading fff powder and test you results. If you are using open sights or 1 power scopes, try sighting in at 60 yards for a better sight picture and then adjust elevation accordingly. Try shooting with and without the ramrod in the gun, this does make a difference.

Good luck and good hunting.....Bigbr


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That's good insight; thanks! I am fairly certain that the rifling is 1:28. I am certainly open to any mods to get it pinned down, I have heard good things of Pioneer, Jim Shockey's endorsement, correct? 

Just help me understand the theory behind such a heavy sabot and so light on the powder; is it still just a matter of being certain that that all powder ignites and a nice steady and slow, but accurate shot? I have switched to small rifle bore primers (conversion kit to avoid the 209's that are way too hot to burn all of the powder) that certainly helped a lot. 

Back to the wad, that is simply jammed down between the powder and the sabot, correct, not around the sabot, but simply filling the void of the inferior part of the sabot, correct? 

You are still using factory matched bullets with matched sabots or replacing the sabot jacket? Sorry I am a little unclear.


----------



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Huge,

The problem with many muzzies out there today is that the ignition source to the combustion chamber have to far too travel. My knight bighorn has just under 2 inches for the flame to travel before it ever reaches the powder. This has been one of the inherent flaws in many in line ml designs. Hotter is by far more desirable than a colder ignition source, especially if you are shooting bp substitutes. With the White in lines, the distance from the ignition source to the combustion chamber is under ½ inch and so the Whites can ignite bp and substitutes easier, however on cold and high humidity days hotter is still much better. The F grades on bp and substitutes are designed around burn rates. The more the F’s the faster it will burn and easier it is to ignite. Pellets are by far the hardest to ignite because of the reduction in surface area exposed to the ignition source and for this reason and because I use number 11 caps, I put 5 grains of fff black powder down first before I put in my pellets. CCI Magnum caps work best, but still are on the finicky side for pellets. A hotter flame will keep crude from building up in the ignition tube and nipple.

With your sabots, and the reduced speeds that muzzies shoot, longer/heavier slugs stabilize faster, carry more kinetic energy farther and stabilize faster through the sonic transformation zones than shorter slugs. If your bore is tight then I would try Harvester sabots in the 300 grain because they tend to by at the .499 mark and if you have a loser bore then you may have to mix and match until you find the right combination. I like the cape buffalo brand of sabots carried at Sportsmans, but they fit better in my .504 bore.

Good shooting....Bigbr

PS....The wad is not wraped around the sabot, but just placed down between the sabot and the powder charge. The wad will cup slightly because it is oversized, but this is normal and helps with the sabot protection.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That is good input, thanks! I think the idea behind the lighter primer is the idea of allowing the powder to fully burn before blasting it out the barrel and having varying amounts of powder burned in each shot: http://www.prbullet.com/hornet.htm I can't double check that this is the right sight as it is blocked at work as "weapons" category. I have read articles about how the 209 primer itself (no powder or antyhing) can shoot the ramrod out of the barrel, that is what it does with the powder also. Thanks for the input; I am certainly still trying to find the right combo and it looks like I may need to tinker with the powder as the next step...


----------



## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Bigbr, do you think it would matter if you used a .52 wad? I have never heard of this but I'll give it a try this year and see what happens. 
Right now I shoot a .50 Omega with 250 gr Shockwaves in the yellow sabots, with the 777 209 primers and 100 gr of FF loose APP (not the gold). My other gun is a Remington ML300 and it likes the 300 gr Hornady SST (same as Shockwaves) with 100 grains of FF loose 777 powder and a Rem #11 cap. It also shoots the 375 gr Hornady maxi hunter with the same powder charge very well. My only complaint is that the lubed bullets are a little messy.


----------



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Elkoholic8

.52 wads would be fine. .52 caliber stuff is just starting to come on to the market, but should work fine. I shoot over sized lubed wads on both conicals and sabots....It will make a difference on accuracy.

Good Shooting .....Bigbr


----------

