# .45 ineffective



## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

Here's an interesting article....

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/366777_bearhunt13.html?source=rss

......this is from the summer.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Placement is critical and effects on a riled-up bear in attack mode are much less immediate than they would be on a calm one.
Penetration is also critical and dependent on bullet selected.
Any handgun round is not as powerful as most standard deer hunting rounds.
So - is the .45 ineffective? Not necessarily - it just depends.
Better than your bare hands though!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Here I thought it was a thread ripping on *.45* being a poor moderator. :shock:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Here I thought it was a thread ripping on *.45* being a poor moderator. :shock:


 -_O-

Yeah....me too !!! -)O(- -)O(-

Jeez....I just started the job, give me a break !!!! :lol:


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

we've been through this one on other post's. the muzzle velocity for a 165 gr .45 is 1,060 ft/s. this is subsonic, meaning it doesn't even break the sound barrier. the .45 is ineffective against body armor, but is great against the human body for large wound channels, and dose not over penetrate, protecting surrounding by-standards. this is why the .45 is an excellant human killer. So why would you even think of shooting a heavy thick skinned animal with a .45, you just gona piss him off. so I'm rambling off again on a dead subject. One last thing, don't use hollow points for bears, you want FMJ for the right caliber .44 mag and above. You have to achieve that big wound channel in that thick skin, hollow points just fragment.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> we've been through this one on other post's. the muzzle velocity for a 165 gr .45 is 1,060 ft/s. this is subsonic, meaning it doesn't even break the sound barrier. the .45 is ineffective against body armor, but is great against the human body for large wound channels, and dose not over penetrate, protecting surrounding by-standards. this is why the .45 is an excellant human killer. So why would you even think of shooting a heavy thick skinned animal with a .45, you just gona **** him off. so I'm rambling off again on a dead subject. One last thing, don't use hollow points for bears, you want FMJ for the right caliber .44 mag and above. You have to achieve that big wound channel in that thick skin, hollow points just fragment.


I don't believe a FMJ is the round for a bear (.44). It will just punch a hole in one side and maybe out the other. I believe a better round is one that the outside jacket rolls over the nose with a little lead exposed (similar to a hollow point with out the hollow). This will give you a slower expansion through the hide, but will give you expansion in the animal for knock down power. You will not find these type of rounds in a factory .45 round.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

ut oh, alabama is in my fridge drinking my beer, what ya think about da game. You best be bringing lots of beer........ 
I kind of agree with "using what you got", but why bring a knife to a cannon fight?
should you not be prepared? IF you know a .45 quite isn't going to cut the mustard, should you not be packing something bigger.
From what I have read, you are better off with pepper spray. I know that does nothing for the human ego. You feel more adequate with a gun, but when a bear is shot it feels threatened, where as messing with his sciences can wart him off better. The big kicker of spray, you have to be looking him dang near in the eye when you use it, THAT TAKES SOME BIG KONADA'S TO STAND THERE AND WAIT. The range on spray bottles sucks. Any volunteers :x


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> I don't believe a FMJ is the round for a bear (.44). It will just punch a hole in one side and maybe out the other. I believe a better round is one that the outside jacket rolls over the nose with a little lead exposed (similar to a hollow point with out the hollow). This will give you a slower expansion through the hide, but will give you expansion in the animal for knock down power. You will not find these type of rounds in a factory .45 round.


wow, you think you are going to knock down a bear. a wound channel is exactly what you want, and maybe if YOU are lucky you will hit a vital. then that wound channel will be your best friend. Bear are not deer or elk. you need to talk to more bear hunters! My nieghbors bear took 4 shots from a .338, do you think it knock it down? remember what you said about getting through the hide and out the other............yet to see it


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## Nueces (Jul 22, 2008)

The S&W .500 should work!


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## copper (Sep 11, 2008)

It would have worked, but according to the article. He put it under the bears chin and fired, only to find out that he had released the ammo clip by accident. 

Thus he never really got the chance to test out and see if a .45 would have put a hole in the bear from close range.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe a FMJ is the round for a bear (.44). It will just punch a hole in one side and maybe out the other. I believe a better round is one that the outside jacket rolls over the nose with a little lead exposed (similar to a hollow point with out the hollow). This will give you a slower expansion through the hide, but will give you expansion in the animal for knock down power. You will not find these type of rounds in a factory .45 round.
> ...


No, what you want is to dissipate energy from the bullet to the internals of the animal. You will not get as much with a FMJ bullet. That is one reason why the military uses them. You want a round the expands slowly to give it a chance to get through the hide, but expand to dissapate that energy internally (which is sometimes refered to as knock down power).

If they were using a non-expanding FMJ bullet that maybe why it took 4 rounds.

And from the trips to Alaska that I have made, it seems that bear spray first followed up by a shotgun (modified barrel and stock length) with buck shot.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

from the horses mouth.....

Most people who hike in Alaska’s wilderness don’t carry a weapon. They know that the best defense is common sense. Traveling and camping carefully are all that they need. If you feel the need for additional protection, consider carrying "pepper spray", a bear deterrent made from the juice of red-hot peppers. This incapacitating spray teaches bears a lesson without permanently maiming them. 

almost all charges are "bluff charges". DO NOT RUN! Olympic sprinters cannot outrun a bear and running may trigger an instinctive reaction to "chase". Do not try to climb a tree unless it is literally right next to you and you can quickly get at least 30 feet up. STAND YOUR GROUND. Wave your arms and speak in a loud low voice. Many times charging bears have come within a few feet of a person and then veered off at the last second.

Select a gun that will stop a bear (12-gauge shotgun or .300 mag rifle) and practice firing it at a rifle range.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

This is the type of handgun bullet you would want if you had to use your .45 for that situation. It is what the pros prefer - An LBT style cast bullet which are cast from virgin alloy and heat-treated to a Brinnel hardness of 18-21. This provides for a hard yet ductile bullet, which will not fragment, or blow-up on the toughest hide or even bone. The one shown is commercially available from Cast Performance http://www.castperformance.com and is a 265-gr WFNGC (wide flat-nose gas check). The wide flat nose cuts a caliber-size hole, while the heat-treated bullet doesn't shatter on bone and will expand a bit because it is ductile. It is also hard enough to give the deep expansion needed to drive into the vital organs through thick skin, fat layers and other stuff that makes bears a bit more impervious to bullets.
Round-nose bullets don't do as much damage along the wound cavity channel because they tend to part the tissue rather than rip through like the WFN. HP bullets act like a parachute and tend to open up wide upon encountering all that resistance and brake the bullet to a stop - possibly before the vitals are reached in many instances involving large bear.

Obviously this bullet shape is intended for .45 revolvers, and the also make a 300-gr Long flat nose design and also 325 & 335 weights, plus weights intended for .45 rifles like the .45-70. They are available in factory ammo from Grizzly Cartridge in .45 Colt +P form.
Someone makes a .45 Auto bullet that has a flat meplat that makes a superior bullet for this type of usage, but I have lost the link for that.


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

At the turn of the last century, the Army was looking for a more effective pistol that officers could carry to stop the doped up Muslims in the Philippines. The "Leguard tests" were used, killing more livestock than Army leadership would like to admit. The result was the ,45 ACP.
Today American soldiers, those few who have the option, carry M-14s and 1911s O*--


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

sweet frisco pete, do you think you could look more for that .45 auto round. I would like to get my hands on some..thanks a million


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Your the man Frisco. 

The round I tried to portray in the .44 is similiar looking, but is jacketed. I believe they use it on silhouette shooting ranges. But you discribed perfectly what the bullet should be doing.


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