# 10 years down the road????



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

duck hunting is becoming scary popluar..more people are hanging up big game and upland and taking up waterfowling...I see more people late season than I ever did and especially during the middle of the week,,, I don't even hunt weekends anymore...and look at all the new gear and equipment in the waterfowl industry,,its exploded...Same with all the new boats and stuff....my question is where do you see waterfowling in utah in 10 years??? I see it being a joke....I hope I'm wrong...


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I see it becoming a matter of who gets there first, there will be no more secret spots and it'll get so overcrowded that it'll become like the snow geese (yet to happen of course), eventually there will be a crash and it'll be back to a few guys here and there doing it because everyone else got fed up.

I think the explosive growth of the sport will get so out of hand that ten years will determine who really likes waterfowling and who is just doing it because they don't like the other wildlife programs Utah offers.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

it hard to say. utah wont have any ducks because of all of the sky busting goes on and they will stay away.I think you see more hunter is because of the age and it still go weather out there for those fair weather hunters.There will proubly be no more fb.ob becasue there will be house built on them.I'm just taking a wild guess here.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

It may end up like some of the marshes back east, where you have to draw blind tags from a lottery and can only hunt in the spot you draw on the day you draw. This limits the numbers of hunters, but also severly restricts the amount of time that anyone gets to hunt.

Alternatively, it may be just like what you are seeing right now, too many hunters, and no birds to speak of, they will all be out in the lake where it is safe, just like right now. Only ten years from now, it will be because they have learned that open water means safety, and cover means hunters.

Not so sure about the housing thing, I was told by one of the fish cops out there that there was an easement included in the Legacy highway deal that limits construction west of it, but not sure of just what constuction it is that is limited. It may only apply to commercial. Anyone who knows feel free to clear that up. 

yodey44 and I have been comenting the last several years that we long for the old days, (5 years ago+) when you hunted opening weekend at risk of your life, and maybe the following weekend as well, but the only other weekend that you had to really worry about getting swarmed was Thanksgiving.
The last few years there has been a swarm every weekend, and _*plenty*_ of hunters (if that is the word for them) every day of the seek as well.
Used to be that I could go out the first week of November or at worst the second week and be the only car in the parking lot some days in the middle of the week.
And one of only ten or so on the weekends. _*NOT ANY MORE*_.          :evil:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I believe you could use what happened to Arkansas' public land duck hunting as a model for Utah’s water fowling future. 

WMA's and refuges will have more restrictive bag limits than private land hunters, hunting will end at noon and entry times will be controlled, horse power limits on boats, limits on the number of shells you can have in possession and quite possibly they will go to a draw each day for blinds.

After those rules and restrictions it will still be so crowded that it won’t be worth hunting for some, but the number of hunters will never lessen, new ones just keep on replacing those who stop.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

Its a joke anymore. Especially everyone that is deciding they "need" a boat to kill ducks. I was talkin to a buddy who went out to Ogden a few saturdays ago and got there bout *3:45 AM* and there was already like 20 other trucks wit boat trailers there. Talk about no elbow room. And nonetheless everyone around him was skybustin the hell out of as soon as they got into sight. Now he's seriously thinkin bout sellin his boat. Its gettin crazy.
And alot of all these new "organizations" and "associations" that are coming up are starting to mainstream waterfowling in the state and popularizing it to the point where when they are trying to promote the sport the are really ruining it for themselves and others. People just need to remember that when they find something good they need to keep there mouth shut and enjoy it. Cuz thats the reason its so good is no one else knows about it.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

With the exception of one afternoon, Farmington has been the same way every time I've gone out. I don't blame your buddy for feeling that way... its gotten a little out of hand, especially since it seems that with more people in the marsh, ethics just get tossed out the window in favor of an "I'm getting mine no matter what" mentality.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

It is getting kind of rediculous out there. I went out to try and fill my swan tag on Saturday at the BRBR. I passed up the usual 1A unit because of the number of trucks parked there and kept driving until I got to Unit 9. I thought I'd be safe because while there were a few trucks parked there, they all had boat trailers. I started walking out into the marsh and found a nice big pond to set up on. I threw out my swan dekes and settled in with about 2 1/2 hours of shooting light left. About a half hour before the swans would normally pick up I had two other hunters walk within 60 yards of me and just start setting up like it was no big deal. Any of you that have been on unit 9 know that it goes for MILES. So I'm already irritated but I figure it's getting too close to flight time to move. Then some jackass in an airboat comes plowing through and sets up on the other side of the pond, with his boat parked right there by his decoys and maybe 100 yards from me. At that point I just said the hell with it, picked up and moved. There was plenty of space once i moved, I just apparently (by the way the birds flew) picked the best spot on the unit on my first walk and had the foresight to get there early and plan my day appropriately.

I think that yes, there are a lot of hunters, but I think it's a general lack of courtesy that really seems to be creating the problems. No one is willing to keep walking when they see that there is someone already in the spot that they were heading for.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Man, that stinks that you got camped on while trying to get the swan. I hear you on that though... people not thinking its a big deal to come set up on your backside, even though you got there on time. Thats definitely a frustration, especially if you work pretty hard to get it done. Sorry your hunt was messed up.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Couldn't agree more, we have this problem every time we go out. No matter where we set up, no matter how early we get there, some douchebag and his pals have to set up as close to us as they can get. I usually respond to this by talking loudly about the inconsiderate @ssbags, and other much more obscene names, and tell them in no uncertain terms that setting up within range of my shotgun could have unpleasant effects on them as I _*WILL*_ be shooting at everything in my range even if it is two feet over _their_ heads, as I planned my shooting according to when I got there, not how it currently was and am *NOT* going to change it for them. I then make sure that they get that experience everytime any bird is even theoretically near them to make sure that they don't profit from their mistake. :twisted: 
Of course I make sure that I am not actually endangering anyone, as that would be MY butt in the wringer if anything bad happened. :lol: 
Opening day the last three years we set up out in the marsh, put out our decoys and then watched the @assbags surround us at 100 yards or less, thus intercepting every group of birds that were headed our way, without having to haul dekes theirselves. Sadly also staying out of gun range. :twisted:

The sad thing is that if they would just have the courtesy to come over and talk to me, show a little camaraderie, and then *ASK* if I minded if they joined me, I *ALWAYS* let them. I have never told anyone to bugger off and find their own spot if they were polite about it. NEVER!
But you can ask yodey44 what happens if they don't, he usually just tries to duck and hide from the verbal flak that I am sending downrange. :twisted: 
Even sadder is that if some of the people on here knew who I was, they may even remember having been on the receiving end of that flak. :evil: Might even be able to figure it out without knowing me. :mrgreen:

We had one group set up twenty yards to our west (on the dike) in the no shooting zone. Idiots set up a full spread of dekes too. I waited until they were done and then went down and told them it was a $500 fine if they were caught shooting there, and told them they had find a spot east of the post. Stupid morons dragged their decoys up and set them up again to my immediate NORTH. Yep thirty FEET from me. I again waited until they were completely set up and then went over and pointed out that not only they were in my spot, but the birds fly pretty much exclusively on a north/south south/north line and asked if they REALLY wanted me to be shooting right past their heads at birds that were coming out of the north, because _*I WILL BE!*_
They bitched and moaned about it, NEVER ONCE ASKING IF THEY COULD JOIN US, and then finally dragged their decoys up the dike another 50 yards and set up a third time. STUPID PEOPLE JUST CAN'T TAKE A HINT! I still felt this was too close and made sure to flare a bunch of birds off of them over the next few hours. I am NOT a nice guy when you start out our relationship by being an idiot, especially not a rude idiot. I am a firm believer in the golden rule, especially in it's reverse corollary. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Corollary: Do unto others as they ARE doing unto you. Rudeness begets rudeness as sure as joy multiplies.
We have walked down the dike many times and talked to people who were already set up, had a conversation with them, and joined them if we felt welcome. Which is pretty much always.
We have also invited dozens of people to join US under exactly the same conditions.
Grow some courtesy, and then if you want to join me or others like me ASK! This will usually be profitable, I have made many good hunting friends this way. Probably made a slew of enemies the other way as well, but who gives a sh!t what people like that think anyway :?:


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I don't think most people nowadays know what distance is common courtesy to setup away from someone...I am talking mostly about all the new people picking up the sport..If I were heading out and ran into another hunter's setup,, I would get completely get out of his zone, and make sure not to screw up his setup and spread and pay attention to the wind and stuff....plus I hate being around other hunters and like to be out on my own, so I especially bust my butt to get away from anyone in sight....


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

You will all was have other hunters set up close to you. then when you ask them what the hell are they thinking.Trust me piss them off bad enought and they will leave. I have gotten in all most fights out there because I tell them what I think of them.That kind of stuff will never stop inless you get some land for your self.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Wow... some of you guys are pretty hardcore about it. :shock: I guess I'm more like Utahgolf in that I just do whatever I can to go further than most people on foot would be willing to for a few ducks and it usually gets me a bit of solitude. Only time I've ever run into problems was when I went walking out through an area that a boat could get to as well, but thats usually my fault I guess.... even then, the one time this year that a boat pulled up on my spot (the opener) I made enough noise that they realized I was there and they went off down the bank and actually were nice enough to give me so much room that both parties wound up with a bit of shooting.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I hate it when people don't make themselves visible when someone else is hiking out somewhere...if I hear or see someone,,I pop up out of my blind and make sure they see me well in advance so they can move in another direction....the worst thing people can do is stay down in there blind wait until someone is right on top of you....there is a courtesy both ways cause if someone busts there butt out there and doesn't see anyone until the last possible second,,,the guy walking out there is going to be exhausted and not wanna move on and probably setup rather close to the other guy...


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> The guy walking out there is going to be exhausted and not wanna move on and probably setup rather close to the other guy...


Quoted for being the troof!! :lol: Usually when I get where I'm headed, I'm flat worn out and land or the spot to set up is a welcome sight. I'd hate to get all the way out there just to have to head back the other direction....  although, I would. I'd never set up on somebody just because i worked hard to get there, as bad as it might suck to try and find somewhere else to hunt. Thats why, as insane as my wife thinks it is, I have no problem getting up wayyyy before dawn to do a deathmarch rather than race somebody else to get to where I want to be. So many of these folks anymore seem to think the best thing to do is show up right at shooting hours and try to hurry, grab a spot and set up. Thats a bitter pill to swallow when it happens to you and there have been times in years past I've been hard pressed not to yell at somebody but usually I find a way to bite my tongue. The alternative isn't very pleasant and its usually not worth the air you waste yelling.


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## LETTER-RIP (Sep 14, 2007)

I am the same way. I do not like to be around anyone. If I get out somewhere and find someone out there I will go back to the truck and relocate to another area. If that is not possible I will go talk with the person and find out if they are really going to decoy birds or just bust everything that comes by. If they are serious about decoy shooting then I will ask them how far away they would like me to move as to not bother them. I like a good challenge and trying to out decoy people in the WMA's has always been fun when the birds are working.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

To avoid such a barrage as has been previously mentioned, how far away is far enough? 150 yards? 200 yards? Out of ear shot? I am new to this game, and want to do things the right way.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

well you gotta make sure you don't mess up there setup especially with the wind..so don't setup down wind of them..I try and get at least 500 yards away and out of there way wind wise....


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So what do you do if you are on the east shore of Farmington, and you stumble upon someone 200 yards from the dike, right on the edge of the water; do you try to avoid them by walking around, and then proceed 500 yards past them, only to end up upwind, flaring their birds anyway, or do you pack it all in, knowing any birds that might have come over you will be flared by the party you passed, because the wind is going the other direction? Either way, it seems lose-lose at FB. 

It is growing more and more apparent to me that although there is tons of room out at FB, that there really isn't much room to hunt, without being elbow to elbow, or ruining someone Else's hunt. Maybe you guys are right- it is too crowded. And judging by the fact that I just barely picked it up, I'm part of the problem. -)O(-


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Easy question to answer,
I would stand on the dike,,pull out a decoy and whack myself in the forehead with it and ask myself why in the heck I'm on the east shore of farmington bay??!!!! j/k  

that place is a zoo,,still able to shoot a few birds there but its not worth the heartburn to put up with the crowds...


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

utahgolf said:


> Easy question to answer,
> I would stand on the dike,,pull out a decoy and whack myself in the forehead with it and ask myself why in the heck I'm on the east shore of farmington bay??!!!! j/k
> 
> that place is a zoo,,still able to shoot a few birds there but its not worth the heartburn to put up with the crowds...


That may be the funniest thing I have read all week. TRUE, but funny. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## LETTER-RIP (Sep 14, 2007)

That is funny!!! The problem with FB is that there is more marsh for the duck clubs than there is the public. If you look at it on a map you will see why hunters out there are elbow to elbow.
Like I mentioned before if you are set up by someone and they are trying to decoy birds. Let the birds work. Dont bust them up if the other hunters have obviously let them go by to circle back into there spread trying to kill them feet down instead of passing by. JMO.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> Man, that stinks that you got camped on while trying to get the swan. I hear you on that though... people not thinking its a big deal to come set up on your backside, even though you got there on time. Thats definitely a frustration, especially if you work pretty hard to get it done. Sorry your hunt was messed up.


Honestly I would have had more respect if they would have just walked the last 60 yards and asked if they could hunt with me. We could have pooled resources and had a much bigger decoy spread, probably made some new friends and had a successful hunt, but instead it makes it a situation where no one can succeed. There's no reason that we couldn't have all shot at the same flights of 20 to 50 birds at a time.

But in the end I really think that if people would just make a little effort to be courteous to one another, we'd all have a hell of a lot better hunts. Just imagine a world where it would be ok for 10 guys to put their spreads together on opening morning, I can't imagine you wouldn't knock the crap out of the birds. But instead we all take turns poking the birds a little higher each time someone shoots as they try to make their way across 10 different spreads instead.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

LETTER-RIP said:


> That is funny!!! The problem with FB is that there is more marsh for the duck clubs than there is the public. If you look at it on a map you will see why hunters out there are elbow to elbow.
> Like I mentioned before if you are set up by someone and they are trying to decoy birds. Let the birds work. Dont bust them up if the other hunters have obviously let them go by to circle back into there spread trying to kill them feet down instead of passing by. JMO.


Yea why do they have two rest ponds out there?Take away the buffer zone or open the rest pond up to hunting andlet the ducks use the buffer zone for the rest pond.But Rich has ran that place pretty dang good.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

ChaserOfAllBirds said:


> So what do you do if you are on the east shore of Farmington, and you stumble upon someone 200 yards from the dike, right on the edge of the water; do you try to avoid them by walking around, and then proceed 500 yards past them, only to end up upwind, flaring their birds anyway, or do you pack it all in, knowing any birds that might have come over you will be flared by the party you passed, because the wind is going the other direction?


If its just you, come over and ask me if you can set up with my dekes too and hunt.... Course, if its a herd then obviously there is a "cover" issue but there is plenty of cover within a few hundred yards of dikes on either end for people to hide in... as long as you know your distances and aren't just shooting to screw other folks. Then it just gets crappy for everyone.


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

boy you guys sure are focusing on the negative here. im on the other hand look at it in a positive light. think about it, the average age of the duck hunter is getting older not younger. there are less youth involved with hunting then in days past. people get into this sport and get out of it, then back into it again. im a prime example of that. this sport needs the youth to continue on. will it be worse in 5, 10, 15 yrs?? yes/no. who knows. the fact is. if you love waterfowl and hunting waterfowl, get involved!! compair the west to the east....we have VERY few hunters and their is lots of room, despite what we all think! seeing our sport grow is not a bad thing. but when you look at the numbers, we as hunters are shrinking, not growing. the future of our sport is in the youth. get them involved. then you will see that waterfowling is not just about killing a limit of ducks! much more than that!!

my 2 cents.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

kingfish said:


> boy you guys sure are focusing on the negative here. im on the other hand look at it in a positive light. think about it, the average age of the duck hunter is getting older not younger. there are less youth involved with hunting then in days past. people get into this sport and get out of it, then back into it again. im a prime example of that. this sport needs the youth to continue on. will it be worse in 5, 10, 15 yrs?? yes/no. who knows. the fact is. if you love waterfowl and hunting waterfowl, get involved!! compair the west to the east....we have VERY few hunters and their is lots of room, despite what we all think! seeing our sport grow is not a bad thing. but when you look at the numbers, we as hunters are shrinking, not growing. the future of our sport is in the youth. get them involved. then you will see that waterfowling is not just about killing a limit of ducks! much more than that!!
> 
> my 2 cents.


You got a good point. it might look like it getting bigger with more people hunting closer to home. I didnt think of it that way. thanks


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

LETTER-RIP said:


> Like I mentioned before if you are set up by someone and they are trying to decoy birds. Let the birds work. Dont bust them up if the other hunters have obviously let them go by to circle back into there spread trying to kill them feet down instead of passing by. JMO.


do people even care about that anymore...seems lately that most are out there just to be _shooters_ NOT hunters.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Longgun said:


> do people even care about that anymore...seems lately that most are out there just to be _shooters_ NOT hunters.


Pretty much... thats the whole "I'm going to get mine" attitude that seems to prevail out there anymore.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

kingfish said:


> boy you guys sure are focusing on the negative here. im on the other hand look at it in a positive light. think about it, the average age of the duck hunter is getting older not younger. there are less youth involved with hunting then in days past. people get into this sport and get out of it, then back into it again. im a prime example of that. this sport needs the youth to continue on. will it be worse in 5, 10, 15 yrs?? yes/no. who knows. the fact is. if you love waterfowl and hunting waterfowl, get involved!! compair the west to the east....we have VERY few hunters and their is lots of room, despite what we all think! seeing our sport grow is not a bad thing. but when you look at the numbers, we as hunters are shrinking, not growing. the future of our sport is in the youth. get them involved. then you will see that waterfowling is not just about killing a limit of ducks! much more than that!!
> 
> my 2 cents.


I agree with you to a point. Yes it is good to get more youth out there hunting, But this can also be opening a can of worms.



> the fact is. if you love waterfowl and hunting waterfowl, get involved!! compair the west to the east....we have VERY few hunters and their is lots of room, despite what we all think!


My opinion is lets keep it that way. Yes there is alot of room, but with as "few" of hunters out there right now it is already getting too crowded. With this over crowding increases the likelyhood of litter, marsh and land damage, crippled birds, lost birds, skybusters and those that don't take the time to learn the many techniques and skills to become a responsible and avid waterfowl hunter who enjoys not only shooting birds but bein in the marsh/field, gettin birds to decoy, and so on. Getting more and more people out there that don't know what the hell they are doin and just wanna shoot any duck in sight is going to have a very negative impact on the future of waterfowling. And you have those that say "oh well we will educate those so that won't happen", well good luck with that. You can't fix stupid.

It's not only about having the birds all to ones self but, preserving a sport and the land that is vital too it. Everytime i go i see more and more garbage, shell casings, dead birds, damaged marsh where some yahoo tried to see how far he get get into the tuleys in his boat and so on.

Enjoy what you have now and be careful what you wish for.....


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I don't have a problem with the increase in the numbers of hunters. Hunters for the most part are a good bunch of guys overall.

The problem I have is the commercialization that got all the new hunters out in the marsh. More, quicker, faster, and money calling the shots. Similar to big game and other hunts, I unfortunately believe that money and encroachment will eventually put a hurt on waterfowlers in the next decade. Things are happening exponentially. Over the past 10 years I've seen a lot of change and it unfortunately hasn't been for the benefit of the sport. Doom and gloom? I guess it is, but I honestly worry about what will be left in 10 years.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Prime example, go out to FB on any weekend, and watch the flocks of birds that fly over the east end. They are usually over a hundred yards up. Sometimes MUCH higher, and yet every group that goes over gets at least a full box fired at them. Isn't a single solitary chance in hell that they could drop one, but that doesn't stop them or even slow them down.

Yodey44 and I have a joke, everytime we see birds like that get shot at, we comment on the I.Q. points that are being destroyed with every shot. "There was a ten I.Q point bird," and so on.
When one of us shoots at a bird that is a bit too high, (HIM :twisted: ) or a flock flies over higher than I am comfortable with I will make the comment that I didn't shoot cause I can't afford the I.Q. points.

On MANY occasions I have walked over to a group that was sky busting and pointed out to them that the birds they are shooting at are anywhere from twice to ten times as high as they could possibly hit, and ask how does it feel to be rich?
When they ask what I mean, and they always do, I point out that they are throwing away at least $10 at every bird or group of birds that goes by, and that is if they are shooting cheap ammo.
Most of them treat it as a joke and many of them comment that they are just there to shoot, they don't eat ducks anyway. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 
If you don't eat birds and you are not hunting specifically to give birds to someone who does, then get the _*#@$%*_! out of my marsh!

And people wonder why I hate. :x


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

You know its hard to say where this sport will be in ten years or so.... i have to agree alot with kingfish.. but what i say to all of you is get invoved.. whether its with the youth, DU or DELTA or some other function.. alone your voice may not be heard but when your in a group you have more push..

It to saddens me to see the commercialization of hunting, but what hunting isn't seeing that... whether its clubs or special areas.. thats a tough one.

one of the main reason got out of rifle hunting is there was just too many people and too many idiots......I love to bow hunt, and find that to be more enjoyable. 

I have the same experiences duck hunting and having people bust the birds way high..... makes me mad, but what can be done about it? I really think that people that "sky bust" have a simple thought pattern "If i cant get it than none can" and I took a friend hunting who hasnt duck hunted much at all and he started to get far shoots I said lets let them work better and his reply was interesting.."well i thought i just might get lucky enough to put one bb through its head" thats the mentality we are dealing with. How do you change that? we cant hqave a co sit there and whatch. it boils down to just edducating people. and thats a hard thing to do in this sport becouse everybody thinks there a pro at it..


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

I have never waterfowl hunted, I do have a buddy that goes and has invited me along a couple of times. I am curious as to if the new law concerning the streambeds has opened up more hunting along the rivers and streams? I am looking forward to getting out and shooting some birds but am a bit discouraged by this post :? I too like to think of hunting and fishing as getting away from people.


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

its funny, you guys gripe and complain about the comercialization of waterfowling. but yet how many of you have the latest and greatest when it comes to gear? decoys, spinners, MudMotors, boats, calls, ect. kinda funny how your enemy is your friend isnt it. :roll:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kingfish said:


> its funny, you guys gripe and complain about the comercialization of waterfowling. but yet how many of you have the latest and greatest when it comes to gear? decoys, spinners, MudMotors, boats, calls, ect. kinda funny how your enemy is your friend isnt it. :roll:


I'm old school so I don't have much of that stuff. The worst stuff is the killer attitude of "Falling Skies" 1-25, land grabs, leases, mondo leases that also land lock access to state ground, encroachment of subdivisions and strip malls, etc, but yes commecialization and money is indeed the enemy.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

yep some of these videos out there really encourage the wrong type of hunters...who's that lame brain and his friends who shoots the same duck 3 or 4 times before it hits the ground??? and they blow the ducks to pieces shooting them at 10 yards with full chokes...disgusting and disrespectful....Those sort of videos encourage those idiots out there to blast away at everything in sight....


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> yep some of these videos out there really encourage the wrong type of hunters...who's that lame brain and his friends who shoots the same duck 3 or 4 times before it hits the ground??? and they blow the ducks to pieces shooting them at 10 yards with full chokes...disgusting and disrespectful....Those sort of videos encourage those idiots out there to blast away at everything in sight....


Amen good brother, Amen!!


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Guns and Flies said:


> I have never waterfowl hunted, I do have a buddy that goes and has invited me along a couple of times. I am curious as to if the new law concerning the streambeds has opened up more hunting along the rivers and streams? I am looking forward to getting out and shooting some birds but am a bit discouraged by this post :? I too like to think of hunting and fishing as getting away from people.


If you know where some ducks are that no one else does and you can get after them then go for it! One thing I would do is still ask permission to hunt an area if there is a home present on the property. The law lets you do whatever as long as you stay in the river. That means ground pounding birds before they get a chance to fly. If the dead bird lands on the land around the stream then you are out of luck and trespassing if you try to retrieve it. I am sure there are some land owners that would appreciate you asking to hunt since they all know its legal anyway. If you explain it that way and are respectful, I see many land owners allowing it that wouldnt have before.
Heres why I wont do it. Say you are sneaking up a stream where you dont have permission to leave the river bed and before you get a chance to get right on the birds, a flock of lets say 40 mallards jumps and heads out of there. You know they are all in range but you know they are not going to land in the water if killed. Now what? That would be too frustrating to me.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Guess I missed something, this is the first I have heard of this new law, what does it say exactly and where can I find it spelled out? :?:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Artoxx said:


> Guess I missed something, this is the first I have heard of this new law, what does it say exactly and where can I find it spelled out? :?:


I don't have exact wording at my fingertips but where it used to be that landowners owned everything around the stream including the stream bottom, now they only own from the highwater mark up I believe... so now streams you couldn't wade down to fish, you can now walk on the bottom... or if you are tubing and can get out below the high water mark, you can take a break without heat from landowners... supposedly. I agree with Nortah, you can float and shoot but its going to be a waterswat exercise because if the bird falls up in a pasture or something, you're SOL unless you get permission from the landowner to retrieve your birds. There was a guy going by GH2 that got into some real big arguments about this on the Sevier and the landowners are pretty brutal about protecting their property lines I guess.... it sounds great but when you consider the possibility for losing birds that don't fall right into the river, its almost just not worth the hassle.

I guess own is the wrong word... they still own the land, but the public now has access to the streambed and not just the water flowing through it.


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## hairy1 (Sep 10, 2007)

Water ways are public property....But the beds of the streams or rivers may not be. It varies from area to area and you would need to know beforehand.

Generally speaking the beds of streams/rivers are owned by the property owners....True you can float the river...But as soon as a decoy anchor, oar, anchor, foot touches property you are trespassing.

There are exceptions: Utah lake is owned by the state...Surrounding land owners own to a high water mark elevation....The state allows the farmers to farm "their" land during a low water year....If you get technical they don't own it. They will tell you they do but they don't.

Know before you go!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

hairy1 said:


> Water ways are public property....But the beds of the streams or rivers may not be. It varies from area to area and you would need to know beforehand.


Isn't that what the big deal was this spring or summer in the legislative session was that now the public has access to the streambed also? I'm pretty sure Garyfish posted a link to it... I'll have to dig and see if I can find it because I believe he or somebody posted the link showing the law change so that you don't have to be worried about trespassing by touching the streambed anymore.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I copied this from another forum. It was on here but I don't remember what the title was.



> http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/Conatser071808.pdf
> 
> Long story short, all recreational activities (fishing, hunting, floating, swimming, etc) and the activities necessary to accomplish them (wading, walking, touching the bottom, etc) are now open on ALL Utah rivers and streams. If you own land, you might want to be aware of this because as long as the people access the river from public land and remain in the stream bed, they are not trespassing on your land as long as they are using it for recreational purposes that are a part of the public easement to the use and enjoyment of the water.....that is all public anyway.


A quote from the above mentioned link. The Utah Supreme Court stated:



> ¶30 We hold that the scope of the easement provides the
> public the right to float, hunt, fish, and participate in all
> lawful activities that utilize the water. We further hold that
> the public has the right to touch privately owned beds of state
> ...


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

Yes, the public has access to the stream and river beds.


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## hairy1 (Sep 10, 2007)

Nice!

I like the sound of that!


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Too bad that doesn't return permission to hunt the Jordan river. I have never killed so many mallards and geese as when I could wade the Jordan past the golf course down 12300 south way. Sadly that is still covered by the No Shooting Within Salt Lake County B.S.
Not to mention the parkway they built there. :evil:   :x


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Artoxx said:


> Too bad that doesn't return permission to hunt the Jordan river. I have never killed so many mallards and geese as when I could wade the Jordan past the golf course down 12300 south way. Sadly that is still covered by the No Shooting Within Salt Lake County B.S.
> Not to mention the parkway they built there. :evil:   :x


Had a buddy on a softball team that used to shoot geese on property with his dad down there... they got pushed off that by the Riverton ordinance about no firearms I think. Either that or the county law forbidding it. I've heard the Jordan was a good place to be for birds and its a bummer its been cut off.


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