# 2019- Worth the Wait?



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

**** Warning::::: Pessimism and Sarcasm located below ********

With the draw coming up, I was sitting there crunching numbers, looking at how far out it will be for me to draw another limited entry tag. (I have already had a LE elk tag and an OIL moose.) With my 4 points I figure 2019 will be my year to draw a crappy Book Cliffs Rifle deer tag. Maybe I should switch units...... The Henry Mtns rifle will only take me until the year 2228. ( yes A.D. ) Even the Oak Creek rifle will push me to the year 2056. And that is if no one jumps ahead of me with points. 

Sheep will be a little longer---- the year 2258. Anyone want to partner with me on a Cryogenics kit? 

My buddy has 11 elk points and says he is sticking it out to get a Pahvant Elk tag---- I said I'll be too old to help him in 2051. Yes, 11 elk points gets him the tag in the year 2051. I wonder if we will ask if the Pahvant is worth wasting 62 points.

So when do plan on drawing your tags? I'd love to hear from those with few points-- to make me feel better.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> **** Warning::::: Pessimism and Sarcasm located below ********
> 
> My buddy has 11 elk points and says he is sticking it out to get a Pahvant Elk tag---- I said I'll be too old to help him in 2051. Yes, 11 elk points gets him the tag in the year 2051. I wonder if we will ask if the Pahvant is worth wasting 62 points.
> 
> So when do plan on drawing your tags? I'd love to hear from those with few points-- to make me feel better.


Cool, 2051 is the year I get my permit to float the Colorado River in the grand Canyon. I will be 100. That's OK, but I doubt if there will be any water left. Although given the assumed rate of global warming, the Salton Sea may back up into the Grand Canyon.

I just lost an argument over my sheep preference points with the Wyoming Game & Fish. They have one less point than I claim, set me back 11 to 12 years.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Goob, I was going to post a light-hearted response to your Grand Canyon Analogy, then I read the last paragraph. My condolences to you on the lost sheep point. I wish I could have given you the 7 I let WY expunge from my record. That is a major downer.... BUT hey, look on the brightside -- You own one of the sweetest 28 ga shotguns I have ever seen. Lucky.


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## bigbuckhunter64 (May 6, 2008)

Well with your LE elk and OIL moose that is 2 more hunts than I have drawn out for so good on ya. 

I guess by the way things are going I will probably be too old to shoot anything by the time I draw anything other than my LE elk tag...cross your fingers for me! :wink:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

No need to worry about waiting that long to draw, the anti-gunners will have us hunting with slings long before then.  

Oh yes I did go there!


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## provoflyfisher (Jun 12, 2008)

Hey Packout I am with you on the Cryogenics kit! 

Thanks for going through the numbers, a sobering thought for my Utah LE deer hunting chances since I have been building points for Elk. This makes it even more important to start building points in other states. What are your opinions on the "best" states to start building points for Deer? Although, sometimes I think it is better to take the money you would spend over the years building points and just head down to Mexico and get huntin! Ten years building NR points at ~250$/state for 3 states = $7500.

I think sites like this are so popular because it allows many to hunt vicariously through others.


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## grunt_smacker (Sep 7, 2007)

Well I guess if I can just get an elk tag this year packout I will be in the same boat as you :shock: 
I guess we better start learning how to tell stories of how back when we used to hunt.......


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Im going to be there for my moose tag. Then even longer for my elk and deer tag. I will die befor i get my elk or deer tag.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

You think that is sad, well let me whine about my situation, I drew LE elk in 97, had to wait 5 years to start putting in again and it took 4 more years to draw the same LE elk tag in 06, now I am on the waiting period and that really sucks, I can't put in for another 3 years and will probably have to wait another 4 to draw again,  Now that really sucks, the only thing worse than waiting to draw is waiting to put in.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

You know, in the long run, Going and whacking a couple of monsters on the books in January is going to be cheaper for me.

Packout, I'll be bringing you 5 fresh capes and antlers after this weekend. Do I get a package deal for volume??

















:wink:


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## weasel (Jan 13, 2009)

Bowgy, you've got to be kidding about how sad you are. You have hunted LE elk twice in the time I have been waiting to draw once! (13 points) Any one who draws with only 4 points should consider themselves very fortunate.


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

Hey packout, With the ever increasing average life span, I would say hold out for henrys. I think I figured out what I am going to do for elk this year: 

With 15 le elk points I have decided to put in for Pahvant and then just plan on hunting general this year with the rifle elk starting as early as it does, and hope they dont make any major changes for 2010.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I have had THREE Dutton archery elk tags since 2000. :shock: Now the quest for deer/bighorns is on. :mrgreen:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Tree- If you use those Philosopher talents of yours I'd probably end up paying you to do the mounts.

Bowguy- So where is your horseshoe stuck?? haha Glad some people are bucking the system. The only time I draw a tag is when they _have_ to give me one.

Provo- You killed a bigger buck on the general hunt than most guys shoot in the Book Cliffs. I don't mind giving you some off-line tips opn what I have learned about other states.

I had a guy (you know who you are) in my shop yesterday, who with his 10 deer points proclaimed he would get a Henry Mtns deer tag in 2014 because "It only takes 15 points to draw". We had a nice little chat, where we broke it down. 2033 should be his year!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Ahh, That poor feller, that must have broken his heart.

I have 9 elk points, but I think I will start putting in for deer this year instead. :mrgreen:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'll just keep putting in for points to get a Deseret Land & Livestock bull tag. Maybe 2037 or something like that. In the meantime, I'm hunting in Montana. I'll leave all the bonus/preference point games to you guys. I've had enough of it. Its hardly about hunting anymore. It is about playing the point game. And that makes me sad.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

One of the hardest hunts to draw is the Henries Bison. Try to tell my daughter that drew it last year that it usually takes more than her 1 point................she wont believe you. To her is was easy. ...................So what your saying is that I have a chance! (dumb and dumber)

I would still rather have a quality hunt every once in a great while than argue that there aren't ANY animals to hunt because it is all over hunted..............Patience boys and girls.............Patience.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> weasel wrote: Bowgy, you've got to be kidding about how sad you are. You have hunted LE elk twice in the time I have been waiting to draw once! (13 points) Any one who draws with only 4 points should consider themselves very fortunate.


Yes I was kidding, I feel very lucky to have drawn those two tags, along with a AR301 in between. The op said the following would be full of pessimism and sarcasm :wink:


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## prettytiedup (Dec 19, 2007)

Packout,

I feel bad for you, I feel worse for me, but I feel the worst for our kids......
It would scare the sh!t out of me to see the odds my 9yr old son will have when he can start to apply for points. Not to mention my 4yr old. I know your kids are in the same boat. As great as the 400" bulls are, it's not worth it when you look at the real cost.  I'm not even going to comment on the fact that a Vernon or Book Cliffs tag equals a 10-15 year wait.

Let everyone chew on that for a while.


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## weasel (Jan 13, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> I'll just keep putting in for points to get a Deseret Land & Livestock bull tag. Maybe 2037 or something like that. In the meantime, I'm hunting in Montana. I'll leave all the bonus/preference point games to you guys. I've had enough of it. Its hardly about hunting anymore. It is about playing the point game. And that makes me sad.


You might want to rethink the Deseret draw. A buddy of mine did the same thing a couple of years ago. He was required to use a guide (provided by Deseret) and he was limited to where on their property he could hunt. He spent 8 days hunting and settled for a 310 bull. He was told the BIG BULL area was reserved for the paying clients.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

weasel said:


> You might want to rethink the Deseret draw. A buddy of mine did the same thing a couple of years ago. He was required to use a guide (provided by Deseret) and he was limited to where on their property he could hunt. He spent 8 days hunting and settled for a 310 bull. He was told the BIG BULL area was reserved for the paying clients.


I had a cow tag up there last year and enjoyed the experience. I enjoyed the DLL guides. All that I met were very good guys. The guides I dealt with said they actually enjoyed taking out the public draw hunters better than the paying guests because they appreciate more and don't expect everything done for/handed to them. I'm not into judging my hunting success with a ruler so I'm not fixed on a 400" bull or anything like that. I'd just like a nice hunt. I don't have the means to hire a team of guides, nor the time off of work to invest in dozens of scouting trips to a LE unit. DLL seems to be a nice mix. I think its cool that a dozen very lucky hunters get to have a $15,000 elk hunt up there each year, for the price of the tag some tips for the guides.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Packout, Switch to archery deer,,,,,, Your 4 point's will pull Thousand Lakes or
Diamond Mnt OR OAK CREEK this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buy a bow, go hunt'in.


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## prettytiedup (Dec 19, 2007)

Yea Packout, maybe you would have a little success if you would pick up a bow :wink:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Goofy, now why would anyone want to shoot a bow when we have rifles that can hit pie plates at 1,000 yards??? haha

You guys are either skirting the topic or you just don't want to say what unit it is you are putting in for. Here is another one: A friend of mine has 2 elk points and wants to archery hunt the Wasatch, Manti, or Nebo. 2016, 2015, 2014 respectively. Not too bad, if we scrub the smell off him....

Pretty-- You calling my moose "little"? haha


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## prettytiedup (Dec 19, 2007)

Packout,

The only thing "little" about that moose is the ego of the guy that killed him. Me and my 1 elk point are rooting for you to pull that book cliffs tag this year out of the bonus pool. You just have to let me help carry it out. :lol: And if ya head into the roadless area I'll bring an extra pack horse.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout's yanking our chain. He's a lot more optimistic than he's letting on.

The only thing we can count on is change. I wouldn't bet a nickle on any draw odds more than 5 years out. What happens if the economy is really going to take a nose dive, I mean a Great Depression type crash? What happens if there's another big shake up in the DWR? What happens if Utah's population boom goes bust? What happens if whitetails get a foothold in Utah? How fast will the hunter population continue to decline? There's umpteen gadzillion things and combinations of things that could create big changes in hunting opportunity. Unfortunately, the most likely changes are negative. For all any of us know, our next hunt could be our last.

That's why the best chance for positive change is us.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Finn- I did warn them about "sarcasm". An actual date next to possible draw dates does open one's eyes. And you are right about the UDWR. I always like to say: If you like what is going on don't get too comfortable, it will change; If you don't like what is going on don't worry, it will change. 

Here is a happy date: My buddy's son has 10 points for SJ rifle deer, 2010. And another: My dad put in for the Nebo landowner turkey draw, 2009!!!

Pretty- You'll need to get a gelding, before 2019.


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## Smokepole (Oct 21, 2008)

So, with my 3 elk points, I have anywhere from 10 to 80 years before drawing (sobering thought). Unless, I'm one of the lucky ones. However, I have 9 OIL for Mt Goat and I expect to draw one of the Uintah permits within the next 5 or so years. That may be my last draw permit with a bonus point. I did begin the bonus point system on day one. I have been very fortunate to have already drawn my OIL Moose, LE ELk and a LE Deer. My kids (and many others) will likely never get the same opportunities as I have. I do look forward to the hunts with my kids, family and friends when they draw their permits.

Smokepole


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## bloodtrail (Sep 20, 2007)

By the time you draw, the State will have become a tropical paradise due to global warming. The good news is that we will have beach front property in Utah!


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

The way I hear it, the Yellowstone caldera will blow and we'll all be dead, so there you go.


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## twigflipper (Dec 11, 2009)

weasel said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > I'll just keep putting in for points to get a Deseret Land & Livestock bull tag. Maybe 2037 or something like that. In the meantime, I'm hunting in Montana. I'll leave all the bonus/preference point games to you guys. I've had enough of it. Its hardly about hunting anymore. It is about playing the point game. And that makes me sad.
> ...


Weasel you might ask your buddy again how many days he was allowed to hunt on Deseret, cause I've guided on the ranch since 1995 and the only clientes allowed to hunt longer than 5 days is archery hunters. I've guided hundreds of paid clientes and state drawn hunters, be it cow or trophy bull, and I can guarantee you that your friend went anywhere & everywhere that the paid clientes went, I can also tell you that state drawn hunter's have harvested the largest bull for the year on several years! While your friend may have shot a 310 in. bull there are lots of reasons for that (including big eye), you are not guaranteed anything,maybe we could get the airplane and chase on some bigger bulls, isn't that the biggest conspiaricy theroy!


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

> He was told the BIG BULL area was reserved for the paying clients.


I love hearsay and rumors 



> maybe we could get the airplane and chase on some bigger bulls


 :lol:

Doyle Moss was borrowing the Airplane to chase some bulls of his own. Right after his guides blocked access into Deseret with their trucks. My dads uncle's friends seen it all, the batteries were just dead in the camera. Everyone knows these guys are some shady dudes 

In all seriousness, for a lot of people, Deseret is PERFECT for many reasons. I know many guys that LOVED hunting out there, they are IMO the best CWMU you could apply for.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

Are you admitting finally that you hunted the borders of DLL for your big deer this year?


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

deseret is a dam fine cwmu unit which both the wife and i have been able to draw over the years for elk deer and antelope and while you may harvest a 310 you are just as likely to harvest alot bigger. your hunt is generaly right in the middle of the paying hunters hunts around the first of oct and the bulls will be screaming. and the guides will do there absolute damndest to get you into a big bull, alot of this is going to depend on you both your physical condition
and your marksmanship are very important, even the cow hunters will tell you
that unless your hunting cows way late your gonna have to go after them and
that can be a challange. your bull hunt will be just that a hunt but it will also
be are should be a great experiance. if my memory is correct the average bull
harvested on deseret has been in the 330 t0 340 class and you will be treated to the same treatment as the full price hunters with food lodging guides you name it.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I've got 9 archery deer points! I could still have 20 years untill I draw the tag I want! However It doesn't matter though because I'm hunting several bucks a year that will exceed the 190 mark and some will even go over 200". 

The good news about points is I'm ahead in the pyramid scheme. If I get sick of waiting I can draw any other archery deer tag in this state if I want and be hunting next year for an easy p&y buck!

I also have three points for antelope doe. I should have 4 but the division didnt give me my bonus point I earned. Rat fink's!

I will never draw the moose tag in my lifetime unless I hit the lottery!

I could draw a bear pretty soon except im only buying a bonus point this year.

I wont ever draw an elk in Utah. So that is why I apply in other states.


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Why oh why will the DWR not make change the bonus point butt plug! :evil: Make hunters choose between a LE and the general draw or make them the same drawing and burn your points when you draw. 
Some how the DWR is making :mrgreen: $$$ off the bonus point scheme. :evil:


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

TopofUtahArcher said:


> Are you admitting finally that you hunted the borders of DLL for your big deer this year?


You got me figured out 

:mrgreen:


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## twigflipper (Dec 11, 2009)

Being from Idaho, I don't totally understand how your bonus point system works.Where will max points ever top out? At least here I have as good a chance to draw as the next guy with out applying for 20yrs. As a hated" non-resident " how many years will I have to apply to draw a south cashe or maybe a pavhaunt or I'd even take a dutton? I have 7 points. Or do you think DWR will change management goals so that Utah is back to a ******** hunt,and if thats the case Idaho has a nice hunt for that! So why send the money.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

twigflipper said:


> Being from Idaho, I don't totally understand how your bonus point system works.Where will max points ever top out? At least here I have as good a chance to draw as the next guy with out applying for 20yrs. As a hated" non-resident " how many years will I have to apply to draw a south cashe or maybe a pavhaunt or I'd even take a dutton? You can draw a South Cache tag now w/7 points. Dutton is 3-4 years out, Pahvant is 10+ years out. I have 7 points. Or do you think DWR will change management goals so that Utah is back to a ******** hunt,and if thats the case Idaho has a nice hunt for that! So why send the money.


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

I say take all the nonresident permits and give them back to the residents. Except for archery deer.


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## twigflipper (Dec 11, 2009)

Califbowmen said:


> I say take all the nonresident permits and give them back to the residents. Except for archery deer.


 I hope thats good old sarcasm, :shock: maybe it should be that Utah can't apply for any out of state hunts other than archery deer! Then maybe I won't have to wade through so many Utah hunters at home!


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Well lets see 3 OIL moose points I'm 28 now I believe I will be 99 when I draw! I might need some help packing it out!  
1 LE elk point (late start) I don't know what to do with the elk, either Archery or Muzzy. I really don't know what unit either I'm thinking Deep Creeks had a cousin go out and saw some nice bulls, he got a 370 class bull. 
Got my LE archery Antelope this year so thats taking care of for now though I think I will try again if I'm still able when I draw my elk.
Deer, well I have found a few biguns on general season units that I think will keep me from putting in for them.
Why can't I just win a lottery or something then I can go to alaska.


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## iluvchukars (Oct 21, 2009)

With 5 points for moose i have been putting in for the wasatch mtns hoping i will be one of those "lucky" ones that draws without being at max points. Maybe one day.

But i do take joy in knowing that i have 13 points for Henry Mtns Archery Deer!!! Last year 2 people with 12 had max. With 3 bonus tags i should be guarunteed for 2010!!!


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## utdavidhunting (Oct 28, 2009)

Have you guys been on hunterstrailhead.com that shows the odds of drawing on all units and the CWMU'S. Also includes most of the western states.


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