# Why doesn’t Jordenelle freeze over.



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Probably been discussed here a dozen times over. I drove by it yesterday and was wondering.


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

Wind and elevation. The North side and the Provo River arm usually freeze pretty good though.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Jordanelle does/did freeze often. This year Deer Cr didn't safe freeze either.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

How deep is Jordanelle? (i could go look it up, but I'm lazy...)

Those lakes store a lot of energy. Before a lake can freeze over it has to go through with a complete mixing, or "turnover". As surface water temps cool the water becomes more dense, and sinks -- while the warmer less dense water begins to rise. This will continue until the entire water column "equalizes" and all layers are close to 4 degrees C.

4C is the point at which water is most dense. If the water continues to cool below 4C, it will then _rise to the top_, where it may continue to cool and possibly transition to a solid (ice). Now it is up to the wind (and cold temperatures) to allow for ice to form.

If you really think hard for a few minutes, you may realize that there is a very important reason why water is at it's most dense at 4C (39.2F) vs. 0C (32F). Rather, maybe I should say it is important that this is the case. As it cools below 4C it becomes less dense, and rises. Why is this important? If water continued to sink as it cooled below 4C, down to 0C, ice would form at the bottom of the lake instead of at the top. If lakes (and oceans) froze from the bottom up nothing would survive! 
Things that make you go hmmm.....

With some larger / deeper lakes, this mixing may never complete to a point where water colder than 4C begins to rise to the surface, where it might freeze.

Here, take a look at this:
https://www.ausableriver.org/blog/look-under-ice-winter-lake-ecology


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

You mean this can be explained by science?

I was hoping someone knew about Keetley and maybe the legend of old man _________. And that some say he’s still down there like Davy Jones burning mad that they flooded his homestead and his fiery anger is what heats the water keeping it from freezing over. 🤓


It’s 292 feet deep. That may have something to do with it. 

Packout, I can’t say I have ever seen it capped over. Glad to know it can. 👍


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> It's 292 feet deep. That may have something to do with it.


That's a lot of water!! That amount of water takes a considerable amount of time to mix and have all of it hit that magic 4C. It also takes cold temperatures. For a lake with that volume of water to freeze over completely, it will take a significant cold spell.

This is exactly why Fish Lake takes as long as it does to freeze, even at an elevation of ~9,000 feet!

It is also why you'll never see Lake Powell cap over. It's just too dang much water to mix and cool.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

It has been already covered, but cross winds, and depth are the main issues. As explained, the Rock Cliff arm reliably freezes by about mid January and often the North arm will too, but the area nearest the dam is usually the last to freeze, if it does at all.

The Rock Cliff arm often has excellent ice action every year. I've done less well elsewhere.


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