# Hangfires! Need some help!



## mjbarney12 (Feb 13, 2011)

Ok, so after reading up on Blackhorn 209 and finding almost exclusively positive things out there about it I thought that I'd give it a try with my new Optima.

My combination is:
Blackhorn 209
CCI 209m (Magnum Shotgun Primers)
Powerbelt Aerolite 250g bullets

When they go off, which is most of the time, I like how it all comes together for accuracy etc.

On the other hand, The past two times I've gone out shooting I've shot approximately 25 shots and have had 5 to 6 hangfires! THAT is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I thought at first that it was because there was still some gun oil down the barrel so I made sure to use extra patches to make sure that the barrel is dry of any solvent or oil after these hangfires started to show up. I though that this took care of it but nope, at least one of the hangfires, maybe two, was even after making sure the barrel was as dry as I could possibly make it.

I checked the flashhole and found no issue there but still took care to use the little pick tool just in case. Basically every time this has happened I've been able to see light through the flashhold in the breach plug so I really don't think that blockage is the issue.

One fellow at the gun range suggested that it was because I was using shotgun primers and not the primers that are specifically designed for muzzys. ALL the research I've looked up on using shotgun primers and specifically magnum primers contradicts what this fellow was saying. The online research indicates that I should get far fewer hangfires due to using magnum shotgun primers but hey, I'm still getting hangfires so maybe he knows better than the online research. What do you guys think?

Perhaps it is the Blackhorn 209 powder itself and it simply does not ignite well or consistently. Again, the research online didn't show this issue as far as I could ever see but what is y'all's experience with Blackhorn 209. Has anyone else had any of these issues and if so, what did you do to solve it if anything.

I'm ok going back to 777 but I really liked what I was hearing about BH209 so I thought it would be just great.

Anyway, what thoughts do y'all have?

Thanks


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Mag shotgun primers... heck even NORMAL shotgun primers cause more problems than they solve. They can be extremely dirty all by themselves. Remington makes SPECIFIC primers for muzzleloaders:










As for 25 shots without cleaning, thats nuts! I dont care what powder you are using, you need to clean more often. I swab between shots with a patch LIGHTLY damp with windex. I pull and clean the nipple every 10 shots.

-DallanC


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

25 shots is a ton for one setting. Are you cleaning the barrel every shot or every other shot? Are you cleaning the breach every 10 shots or so? I think these questions are much more pertinent to the issue than the primers as I have not ever had a dud primer and shot many types.
One issue I had when I was new to this was that I was using a lubricant that was basically staying towards the breach and eventually plugging the breach plug or wetting the powder, I was clearly using way too much.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

You know, I've been experiencing the same thing with my CVA Optima centerfire rifle. I've only fired my rifle 30 times total, but it has failed to fire at least 4 times. I didn't know what the deal was. I started thinking that the firing pin was not striking hard enough. -Ov-

Your post got me to thinking.

Then I read this:
http://www.shootersforum.com/single-shot-rifles/65452-cva-optima-elite-45-70-a.html

It sounds like we need to place a call to CVA.


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## mjbarney12 (Feb 13, 2011)

*sorry, I didn't clarify.*

No, I have not shot this gun 25 straight shots without cleaning it. I've shot 25 TOTAL shots and the most shots I've taken without cleaning is maybe 5 or 6. I've been out on three separate outings and have done extensive cleaning each time I've returned and again, I've cleaned the gun in the field every 5 or 6 shots I'd say.

Anyway, I've done some further research and it appears that while BH209 works very well and they recommend specifically using magnum primers CCIM or Federal 209A primers, one issue that the Optima seems to have is that the flash chamber is a bit smaller than other makes and so if you don't take a #32 drill bit to it every 5-6 shots, like when you clean the bore out etc., then the chamber shrinks in size and does not allow for sufficient gas and pressure build-up and you can get hangfires and misfires. Well, since I had not taken a #32 drill bit at all to the flash chamber I figured I'd see if it would make a difference. I just finished scraping out the flash chamber and sure enough, there was plenty of carbon-like matter that came out with the drill bit even though I've cleaned the breach plug every time I've fully cleaned the gun after shooting.

I'm hoping that it takes care of the problem as it seems to have done for many other Optima owners shooting the same get-up I'm shooting. I'll report on that here in a week or so when I get another chance to go out shooting.


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## mjbarney12 (Feb 13, 2011)

*BirdDogger*

My issue hasn't been that the primer isn't firing. It seems to be firing very well. There's always at least a "pop" sound when the gun is fired, I'm just not getting consistent ignition of the powder. I'm really hoping that the #32 drill bit tip I discovered after doing further research works.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

... or just give up on BH209.

Pyro always works for me, I've killed a TONS of deer with it. I've never had any kind of problems with my existing load to ever want to try anything else (ok I lied, I tried 777 when it first came out, absolute trash... accuracy was TERRIBLE with it, went back to pyro and ragged 1 hole groups). Who cares how dirty it burns is if you only need 1 shot 

Anywho instead of a drill bit, you might want to get some Acetylene tip cleaning files, they actually work better. I keep a set in my possibles bag along with a nipple pick.


-DallanC


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## Semaj3 (Aug 22, 2011)

If it is a new Optima with the quick release breech plug they sell a different one made specifically for blackhorn and other loose powder. From everything I have heard it was a flaw with the original plug that is causing problems with loose powder.


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

*Re: BirdDogger*



mjbarney12 said:


> My issue hasn't been that the primer isn't firing. It seems to be firing very well. There's always at least a "pop" sound when the gun is fired, I'm just not getting consistent ignition of the powder. I'm really hoping that the #32 drill bit tip I discovered after doing further research works.


Hopefully the drill bit works for you. I just use the bit by hand. Also pre soak the plug in gun solvent. I've shoot 9 or 10 times each time I've taken my Traditions Pursuit out and didn't need to swab it until I was done for the day. And clean up was simple and fast. If you still have hangfires, maybe go with the updated plug. This old dog ain't afraid to learn new tricks.


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## WarYak (Nov 25, 2008)

I tried Blackhorn 209 and had the same hang-fire issues. I switched back to Triple 7 and have never had a problem.


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## mjbarney12 (Feb 13, 2011)

*Problem Fixed!!!*

I followed some advice from here and from on-line after some further research and found that taking a #32 drill bit and scraping out the flash chamber from the carbon deposits left over from the primer combined with adjusting the hammer a bit out so that there is a "crush fit" when the hammer strikes the primer thus avoiding "blow back", I was able to shoot again today with zero hangfires or misfires. My Optima worked flawlessly with CCI 209m primers and 100g of Blackhorn 209 powder.


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