# MINE!!



## ckamanao (Mar 20, 2010)

Maybe this is just me. Or maybe I'm starting to chill out in my old age. I'm just as avid hunter and fisherman as anyone out there. But I do not understand this whole, "its mine, stay away" menallity that some people have. I perused the fishing forum recently and read a topic about a guy fishing on Utah Lake with his son, in float tubes. His son gets too close to another boat, and the owner completely loses his temper with the kid. Or some of these guys who have to get all "ninja stealth" about hiding where they hunt because they absolutely have to have the big rack they saw. I realized a long time ago that there is alot of water out there. There is also alot of mountain out there. Granted, I could find my "own spot" as some would say and therefore, stay out of theres'. What happened to being a Sportsman? What happened to the camaraderie of the outdoors? If i go out on the river and not catch anything, it's not a waisted day. If i go on the hunt, and not shoot anything, it still isn't a waisted day? Who else has had dealings with people like this?


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

I think its safe to say we have all had experiences like this. We have mountain property shared in the family, and on more than one occasion we have had "sportsmen" try to kick us off our own property by saying that WE were tresspassing; one time was even at gun point. It is amazing the amount of selfishness out there.
Once out at Flaming Gorge, we were fishing back in Carter Creek with little kids in the boat when another boat with 2 girls and 2 guys came speeding back, they anchored right next to us and then took their swim suits off right in front of the kids. They were trying to get us to leave, needless to say it worked... What a joke...

It's too bad, we get outside to "get away from it all" and we get hassled for it.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, you have to see both sides of the coin here. I HATE a crowd, no matter what I'm doing. If I'm on Utah lake and someone comes up and starts crossing my line to fish right where I'm at, I'm going to get a little irritated. After all, there's a whole lake out there, why does this clown have to be in my back pocket? It all boils down to common courtesy. If you run into someone in the field, give them their space as you would like them to do to you if the roles were reversed. On the subject of top secret hunting spots, I have to agree with the guy that keeps his spot under his hat. That is sacred ground to that person. Most people don't have a clue what goes into scouting, finding, learning and being successful in a hunting spot these days. When you find a good spot and you've put many hours of blood sweat and tears into it, it becomes sacred to you. Simple as that. It's sacred ground. NOT to be abused by everyone. The internet, 4 wheelers, GPS units, and the plain lazy, gota have it yesterday, entitlement complex havin, attitude of people has ruined hunting in my opinion. If I have a sweet spot, YOU aint finding out about it! Period! 

My.002


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## muledeer#1 (Dec 2, 2008)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Well, you have to see both sides of the coin here. I HATE a crowd, no matter what I'm doing. If I'm on Utah lake and someone comes up and starts crossing my line to fish right where I'm at, I'm going to get a little irritated. After all, there's a whole lake out there, why does this clown have to be in my back pocket? It all boils down to common courtesy. If you run into someone in the field, give them their space as you would like them to do to you if the roles were reversed. On the subject of top secret hunting spots, I have to agree with the guy that keeps his spot under his hat. That is sacred ground to that person. Most people don't have a clue what goes into scouting, finding, learning and being successful in a hunting spot these days. When you find a good spot and you've put many hours of blood sweat and tears into it, it becomes sacred to you. Simple as that. It's sacred ground. NOT to be abused by everyone. The internet, 4 wheelers, GPS units, and the plain lazy, gota have it yesterday, entitlement complex havin, attitude of people has ruined hunting in my opinion. If I have a sweet spot, YOU aint finding out about it! Period!
> 
> My.002


I couldn't agree more!


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## ckamanao (Mar 20, 2010)

What you say makes sense and I can see where your coming from. It does boil down to common courtesy. But I'm starting to realize, common courtesy is alot like common sense. If they were so "common" then why can't more people have them. There ARE some people who are just plain lazy and looking for a free ride. But, there are also those who are just trying to make headway in what, seems like to them, is a complicated sport. Just like my kids, they just want to be pointed, not pushed, in the right direction.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I have a bottle of sweet and spicy pickles in the fridge and they are all MINE!


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> Once out at Flaming Gorge, we were fishing back in Carter Creek with little kids in the boat when another boat with 2 girls and 2 guys came speeding back, they anchored right next to us and then took their swim suits off


where EXACTLY were you fishing?


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

stablebuck said:


> UtahHuntingDirect said:
> 
> 
> > Once out at Flaming Gorge, we were fishing back in Carter Creek with little kids in the boat when another boat with 2 girls and 2 guys came speeding back, they anchored right next to us and then took their swim suits off
> ...


I have dreamed of this my whole life! :lol:


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

jahan said:


> stablebuck said:
> 
> 
> > UtahHuntingDirect said:
> ...


Uhhhh... I should mention, the average age and body weight on that boat was about 45 and 280lbs (I don't mean to be shallow, but it's probably not the dream you were hoping for)... Plus, there were a couple of naked dudes in there already...


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Well, you have to see both sides of the coin here. I HATE a crowd, no matter what I'm doing. If I'm on Utah lake and someone comes up and starts crossing my line to fish right where I'm at, I'm going to get a little irritated. After all, there's a whole lake out there, why does this clown have to be in my back pocket? It all boils down to common courtesy. If you run into someone in the field, give them their space as you would like them to do to you if the roles were reversed. On the subject of top secret hunting spots, I have to agree with the guy that keeps his spot under his hat. That is sacred ground to that person. Most people don't have a clue what goes into scouting, finding, learning and being successful in a hunting spot these days. When you find a good spot and you've put many hours of blood sweat and tears into it, it becomes sacred to you. Simple as that. It's sacred ground. NOT to be abused by everyone. The internet, 4 wheelers, GPS units, and the plain lazy, gota have it yesterday, entitlement complex havin, attitude of people has ruined hunting in my opinion. If I have a sweet spot, YOU aint finding out about it! Period!
> 
> My.002


I agree with you Tex. We should definately respect others privacy and hard work, but we also need to be considerate of those that do happen into "our area". You are right, too many people do not and will not put the time in for them selves; they just want it and they want it now. I don't think we should have to tell anybody about our secret spots because we were the ones that worked hard for them, but we do need to act like sportsmen if we find that our secret spot isn't as secret as we had secretly hoped...
You have to admit, the earlier mentioned 14 year old kid that paddled over to unhook a snagged lure and getting chewed out for it by is a joke. From what know about that incident the guy was way out of line.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > stablebuck said:
> ...


why did you leave then? Sounds kind of like watching sea lions...probably had potential for entertainment...hahaha! Forget Sea World...go to Flaming Gorge and have your own personal Shamu show


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> but we also need to be considerate of those that do happen into "our area". You are right, too many people do not and will not put the time in for them selves; they just want it and they want it now. I don't think we should have to tell anybody about our secret spots because we were the ones that worked hard for them, but we do need to act like sportsmen if we find that our secret spot isn't as secret as we had secretly hoped...


Agreed. I have no problem running into someone else in the field. That only means he's probably put as much of himself into it as I have. A mutual respect for one another is a common bond among hunters. All my points and many more are covered perfectly in this article written by Dwight Schuh. It was published in Bowhunter Magazine about 20 years ago.

*Sacred Ground by Dwight Schuh*

Many years ago, a friend and I backpacked 10 miles into a wilderness for deer and elk. I'd planned to go alone but when he asked if he could go I said sure, with one condition - he wouldn't tell other people about this particular spot. After all, I'd spent four hunting seasons, plus countless hours and money scouting, learning the area. Yes, it was public land, open to anybody, but my personal knowledge wasn't for public broadcast.
My friend said he wouldn't utter a word. That was good enough for me, and away we went. We saw lots of deer and elk and few other hunters. Everything was sweet.
At least it was until the following winter when I learned that some hunters from our town had killed several big bucks during the rifle season - in the very spot where we had been. How did they learn about that spot? I wondered. The answer was not good. My friend had told them. Apparently he thought it was okay. After all, I wouldn't be there during the rifle season. Besides, I'd probably never find out. What would it hurt?
But it did hurt. It hurt because they'd taken the very animals that made this spot special to me, animals I'd worked years to find. It hurt because those hunters, who'd invested none of themselves there, probably had less than full respect or appreciation for that place. It hurt most of all because my trust and confidence had been violated. I felt betrayed.
We all have our favorite spots, places where we've invested our time, our money, our experience, our feelings, our lives. These places can be diverse - a remote elk basin, a whitetail scrape line and the back 40, an antelope water hole, a ridge with some big mule deer - but they all have common qualities. They're places we've found with our own ingenuity, our sweat, our time, our study. We might cherish some spots because of their hunting quality, but we love others just because we discovered them on our own, or we never see anyone else there, or we have had special feelings or experiences there. Whatever the reasons, these special places often become more than just good hunting spots to us. They become sacred ground.

Violation of quality
A friend of mine used to hunt a brushy little bowl in Washington where he could always see a couple of bears. Despite his best efforts, he never killed one of them, but just going there and seeing bears gave him hope and good memories. Wanting to share his joy he invited a buddy along. That was good. But later, the buddy took his brother, and the brother invited two of his pals, who killed two bears. In a very tangible sense, my friend had seen the quality of his spot eroded - as a product of his own generosity. He felt very much as I did in the scenario described at the beginning. Trying to be good guys, we'd both got burned.
Hunting of public lands, my bear hunting friend and I did not lose our right to hunt. We may have felt robbed or violated, but at least we could continue hunting our sacred grounds. But on private land, the result could be more devastating. M.R. James, editor and founder of Bowhunter, talked about a common scenario.
"You have permission to hunt a farm, a place you've hunted for years, and you invite a buddy to hunt with you. That's okay, because the landowner doesn't mind. But then that buddy shows up with a bunch of his friends, and things start snowballing, and the landowner gets angry and closes his land to everyone - including you.
When that happens, you feel violated, because other people don't regard a place as special, when you do," James said.
On a similar there, I've talked to hunters who've invited guests to hunt their favorite private property - only to have the guests later lease the hunting rights there and lock them out altogether. Violations of sacred ground can have some very obvious and negative effects on hunting quality.

Violation of Respect
A few years ago a friend and I were skinning a bull elk in the bottom of a canyon, a place I'd discovered on my own several years before. It was a wild place, hard to reach, special to me in its loneliness. I'd never seen anyone else there and never expected to. But right at dark, as we worked on the elk, we spied a hunter climbing up towards us.
"Hi, Dwight," the hunter said, as casually as if we'd planned to meet right there for coffee.
"Do I know you?" I said. He was wearing a face mask, and the light was dim.
When he pulled off his mask, I recognized Monte Moravec, a longbow maker from Missoula. I was incredulous, not just at seeing someone there but someone I knew. "Monte, what in the world are you doing down here?"
"I've been hunting this canyon for 15 years," Monte said. "You're the first person I've ever seen here. I didn't think anyone else was crazy enough to hunt here."
We laughed, and then Monte helped us finish skinning the elk, and together we all hiked out to the trail at midnight. It was a grand reunion, not only because we'd renewed a friendship, but because we found we shared a common bond. Sacred ground.
I've always believed that appreciation is proportionate to time and effort expended, and that's why I've never resented meeting someone like Monte in the field, someone who has paid his dues and respects the place as much as I do. It's his sacred ground, too. But people who have invested none of themselves in a place have no foundation for respect. Did those rifle hunters who killed the deer truly appreciate and revere that place as much as I did? I don't know, but I doubt it because appreciation comes not from what you take out of a place but from what you invest into it - your time, effort and emotions. And I know those hunters invested nothing but a quick horse ride and a few bullets. From my point of view, they raped and ran.
Why does this bother me? I look at it this way. When someone (you consider) undeserving invades your area and kills a bunch of game there, or leases the place out from under you, you maybe irritated or disappointed, but you might understand their motives and accept the loss, because those are outward offenses. They're strictly practical business.
In contrast, when someone fails to understand your feelings and tramples your reverence for the land, you feel hurt, because the issue goes beyond business. It becomes personal. Your feelings are made a mockery. That's why it makes sense to protect sacred ground. You're protecting not only a piece of land, but your own heart.

Violation of Honor
If you say to someone, "Listen, this place is special to me. I'm happy to share with you, but please don't take in other people," the meaning is clear enough. If he's not willing to abide by that agreement, he should say no, and you can go your separate ways, friendly or otherwise. But, if he agrees to hunt with you and not tell anyone, and then breaks that agreement, he's lied to you. In this sense, the issue is honesty, and the question would be, who wants to hunt with someone who would lie to them?
But the issue really goes far beyond honesty, to a deeper level called honor. Even if the subject of who can hunt where is never discussed, it's implicit in the relationship between hunters, one of the unwritten laws of hunting. When you invited someone to a hunting spot you've found, and they agree to go as an invited guest, they should respect that as your spot. And unless they discuss it with you and get your okay, they should not even think about going back by themselves, let alone intentionally telling someone else or inviting other people there.
Of course, looking at the flip side of this, none of us has the right to try to tie up all the good hunting land for ourselves. Bow hunter Kevin Kennedy told me a friend of his had invited him to hunt a special little area, but in order to go, Kevin had to promise he'd not only never hunt that particular spot again, but that, potentially, he'd never set foot in the entire mountain range again.. "That's ridiculous," Kevin said. "I like the guy and want to hunt with him, but he's so proprietary I won't do it. If I followed his rule, I'd never be able to hunt on my own anywhere in the whole state."
I sometimes turn down hunting invitations for the same reason, especially when someone makes outrageous demands of secrecy. At the practical level, I don't want anyone's rule to limit my own freedom to explore and discover. At a deeper level, what if they take me some place that I really wasn't to hunt again, a place I might have discovered on my own? Frankly, I'd rather not know where they hunt than to be tempted to violate their trust. So I just say, "No thanks."
Which may bring us to the very crux of this discussion. Indeed, it is a sad moment when another hunter violates your confidence and defiles your sacred ground. I can think of only on this worse - doing it to someone else. It's a matter of honor. It's sacred ground.


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## ckamanao (Mar 20, 2010)

That is a great article. The man who can see both sides of the canvas is becoming very rare. Puting yourself in someone elses shoes and taking a walk in them is not as easy task.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Tex- Great article. I have a saying "Tell someone about your hunting spot and you don't have a hunting spot anymore."

I am usually very willing to discuss general areas with people and give them advice from my experiences. But lets face it; telling someone specific spots will diminish your future experiences. I have a 50 acre spot in the Unitas where I have killed a bull elk 6 of 7 trips in there. It is a special place for me, one I found, after 4 years of not seeing a bull in the Uintas. I have taken 3 people into this spot and they have killed 3 bulls. I can only hope that they do not spill the spot to others. I hope to take my boys there in the next 5 years and get them their first bulls. But if I show up and just one other man is there then the spot will "gone" and that year of waiting will be wasted. Maybe wasted forever.

What I do not understand though is the people who act like you are trespassing in "their" spot when you cross paths out in the middle of no-where. There is too much competition in the experience for some people.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

What's funny to me is most times I run into another hunter, the 2nd thing out of their mouth is how many years they have been hunting in that spot... I was here first mentality. 

That never ruins the spot for me. In fact, most of the time I am not running into other hunters I am also not running into any deer. I just count on seeing other people. I am more laid back about things though.


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## scottie985 (Jan 4, 2010)

People and their stupid secret places. You found your secret place one of two ways. Someone told you or you hiked in and found it on your own. Either way someone knew about it before you and someone will find it long after your gone. If someone told you about it why can't somebody else get told about it? If you found it on your own why can't anyone else do what your did and find it? If you want to tell then tell. If you don't want to tell don't tell but either way get over it if someone else shows up.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> Once out at Flaming Gorge, we were fishing back in Carter Creek with little kids in the boat when another boat with 2 girls and 2 guys came speeding back, they anchored right next to us and then took their swim suits off right in front of the kids.


Sorry, but I have to call BS on this one... no pics were included to prove it happened _(O)_ put up a link to your youtube video and I'll recind my statement. :wink:

Thanks to whoever posted the Dwight Shuh article. . . that is one of my favorite people and one of his best articles of all time IMO.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> If you found it on your own why can't anyone else do what you did and find it?


No one is saying you/they can't. You're missing the point. Please refer to the Dwight Schuh article. It's all about the respect for someone else's "sacred ground".



> A few years ago a friend and I were skinning a bull elk in the bottom of a canyon, a place I'd discovered on my own several years before. It was a wild place, hard to reach, special to me in its loneliness. I'd never seen anyone else there and never expected to. But right at dark, as we worked on the elk, we spied a hunter climbing up towards us.
> "Hi, Dwight," the hunter said, as casually as if we'd planned to meet right there for coffee.
> "Do I know you?" I said. He was wearing a face mask, and the light was dim.
> When he pulled off his mask, I recognized Monte Moravec, a longbow maker from Missoula. I was incredulous, not just at seeing someone there but someone I knew. "Monte, what in the world are you doing down here?"
> ...


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## ripndrag (Mar 16, 2009)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > stablebuck said:
> ...


Uhhhh... I should mention, the average age and body weight on that boat was about 45 and 280lbs (I don't mean to be shallow, but it's probably not the dream you were hoping for)... Plus, there were a couple of naked dudes in there already...[/quotethere is an old saying that goes like this ......SHES NOT A LADY TILL SHE HITS 280 :lol: :lol:


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## scottie985 (Jan 4, 2010)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> > If you found it on your own why can't anyone else do what you did and find it?
> 
> 
> No one is saying you/they can't. You're missing the point. Please refer to the Dwight Schuh article. It's all about the respect for someone else's "sacred ground".
> ...


[/quote:22pa7hk0]

Sorry but I didn't miss anything. I simply don't agree. If you wish to share then share but don't get upset when that person does the same thing you just did. If someone finds your spot remember it was someone elses spot before it was yours.


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