# Whats the deal with Nevada??



## BugBuilder (Oct 17, 2007)

I am looking into hunting Nevada, but everything I can find says that to apply you have to buy license, ok I can pony up and pay for the license, since it is refundable if you do not draw. But the kicker is, if you get a refund you do not get a bonus point! So the two options are 10 dollars for a bonus point and no draw or 142 dollars and almost no chance to draw. That sucks, I guess I will just buy points for a few years to try and up my chances before actually applying. And I have been complaining that I can't draw a Utah tag all these years, but at least I get a bonus point with my unsuccessful letter each year. 

What are everyone else's thoughts on Nevada's system?

BugBuilder


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Sounds to me like a good way to trim the applicant pool and increase draw odds.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> Sounds to me like a good way to trim the applicant pool and increase draw odds.


So, REDUCING opportunity for the 'financially challenged' hunters, "sounds like a good way to increase draw odds"? :roll: I beg to differ. I thought we didn't want to "turn hunting into a rich man's sport", guess I was wrong. :?

I am all for making wishful draw applicants paying to help the animals they wish to hunt, and if that is the reasoning behind making one buy a hunting license I am all for it. But, if the reasoning is to "trim the applicant pool and increase draw odds" I am opposed to such policies. That is why I strongly oppose making hunters pay 'upfront' for the tag. It benefits the wildlife nothing, but punishes the hunters. Not good long-term planning in my book.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

If someone could not afford the upfront fees in the first place then that said person has no business putting in for a tag. 

this does not  make it a rich man's sport at all. besides do not we all have a piece of plastic in the wallet called a credit card? this is the only way to pay now a days via on line apps.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Sounds to me like Nevada's system works for well for them. 

If you really want a big trophy bull quite throwing all that money away in different draws and save it put it CD's or the stock market, making you money, for a few years and then pull it out and buy that trophy bull dream hunt. You could save enough money to buy one of those type hunts before you would ever draw out in Utah or Nevada. 

Or you could just hunt on an any bull, or go to Colorado and get an over the counter tag.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> If someone could not afford the upfront fees in the first place then that said person has no business putting in for a tag.
> 
> this does not make it a rich man's sport at all. besides do not we all have a piece of plastic in the wallet called a credit card? this is the only way to pay now a days via on line apps.


+1


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> If someone could not afford the upfront fees in the first place then that said person has no business putting in for a tag.
> 
> this does not make it a rich man's sport at all. besides do not we all have a piece of plastic in the wallet called a credit card? this is the only way to pay now a days via on line apps.


So, screw the guy with three teenage sons then, right? :roll: If I had three kids and a wife that were interested in hunting elk, there is NO way I could if I was required to pay up front. If i am allowed to just build their points up with minimal costs upfront, my family members would still have dreams/chances of drawing at some point down the line.

Again, what purpose is served by paying upfront? How does it help wildlife, and how does it help ensure the future of hunting? What does it do besides limit the number of people who can apply/hunt? And how is limiting the number of people who can AFFORD to even apply, little lone hunt, benefit the future of the sport?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

i guess over the counter tags do not mean that you are hunting? hunting is hunting regardless if it is an open area, limited entry, or once in a life time right.
No one said that you can not go hunting.


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

What's going to happen when your three son's and you all draw the same year? I guess you hope your card isn't over the it's limit??


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> i guess over the counter tags do not mean that you are hunting? hunting is hunting regardless if it is an open area, limited entry, or once in a life time right.
> No one said that you can not go hunting.


True, but you ARE trying to limit those who can hunt the LE units, and for what purpose? _(O)_



> What's going to happen when your three son's and you all draw the same year? I guess you hope your card isn't over the it's limit??


If you paid attention you would see how I would AVOID such a situation. :shock: If I couldn't afford to pay upfront for all three boys, I OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be able to afford all of them to draw the same year. :roll: I NEVER made such a suggestion. Go back and reread what I wrote. :?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

Pro would give money away to have dreams, hell just send it me. and your dreams will still be that dreams.

If it will make you feel better I can send you a letter saying "yes the dream is still there/here"


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> Pro would give money away to have dreams, hell just send it me. and your dreams will still be that dreams.


Nice avoiding answering my question. :roll: Let's try again, what PURPOSE is behind requiring upfront payment of a LE tag? Come on, you feel so strongly about it, surely you must have a good/valid reason(s).


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

we are talking about hunting in general not le tags.


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

So it's a way to limit the number of applicant's. Sound's good to me but I don't like not getting a bonus point for not drawing after applying.


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

The PURPOSE of paying up front would be to limit the amount of people who put in with no fund's available for the hunt. That eliminates allot of people!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> we are talking about hunting in general not le tags.


Only *you* are talking general not LE, the rest of us are talking about LE. Still failed to answer the question!



> *So it's a way to limit the number of applicant's. Sound's good to me* but I don't like not getting a bonus point for not drawing after applying.


I am curious why reducing the number of people in the 'game' "sounds good". :?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Wdycle said:


> The PURPOSE of paying up front would be to limit the amount of people who put in with no fund's available for the hunt. That eliminates allot of people!


How does that differ from what is in play now? If one doesn't have "the funds available" now, they can't apply now. So, what changes by making people pay upfront, except eliminate families from hunting? And, how is eliminating families from hunting goos for the future of hunting?


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

Who said you can't apply if you don't have the fund's now? :? Eliminating large group's of people would help the single applicant correct?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

pro in the original post it does not say weather it is general or LE, in Utah you are supposed to put in to the draw for any tag, regardless general season or LE. 
So you are the only one talking about it being LE.

I'm going to go out on the limb and say it is there way of limiting the number of apps in the pool, and too also ensure that they have the money upfront to pay for the tags.

Probably for the reasons that could include over the limit cards, cards not being kept up to date to name a few. 

This system would not hurt Utah to do it the same. for residents and non-residents


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Wdycle said:


> Who said you can't apply if you don't have the fund's now? :? Eliminating large group's of people would help the single applicant correct?


Large groups? A max of four can apply together, is that your definition of large? *You* said:


> The PURPOSE of paying up front would be to limit the amount of people who put in with no fund's available for the hunt.


Remember? :roll:


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Wdycle said:
> 
> 
> > Who said you can't apply if you don't have the fund's now? :? Eliminating large group's of people would help the single applicant correct?
> ...


The purpose would be to stop mass group's of people putting in!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

BugBuilder said:


> I am looking into hunting Nevada, but everything I can find says that to apply you have to buy license, ok I can pony up and pay for the license, since it is refundable if you do not draw. But the kicker is, if you get a refund you do not get a bonus point! So the two options are 10 dollars for a *bonus point* and no draw or 142 dollars and almost no chance to draw. That sucks, I guess I will just buy points for a few years to try and up my chances before actually applying.* And I have been complaining that I can't draw a Utah tag all these years, but at least I get a bonus point with my unsuccessful letter each year.*
> 
> What are everyone else's thoughts on Nevada's system?
> 
> BugBuilder


sage, do you think the words in bold are directed toward general season tags? Does Utah give out *bonus points* for unsuccessful general tag applicants? The answer is NO!



> I'm going to go out on the limb and say it is there way of limiting the number of apps in the pool, and too also ensure that they have the money upfront to pay for the tags.


Again, why is "limiting the number of apps in the pool" a desired thing?



> The purpose would be to stop mass group's of people putting in!


Again, the MAXIMUM number of applicants that can apply together is FOUR, does that fall under your definition of "mass group's of people"?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

Pro it is talking about NEVADA NOT UTAH.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> Pro it is talking about NEVADA NOT UTAH.


Exactly, then it switched to Utah in comparison. How does comparing Nevada's *LE* system to Utah's general season tags apply? Doesn't comparing* LE* systems make more sense?


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

If 50 people put in with 4 that would be 200 tag's if there all filled. That's what I call MASS group's of people. As for limiting the number of people I guess that the state would loose out on allot of application fee's.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

it is about the draw system and Utah has a draw system do we not? and it is not just for LE it is for hunting in general right. or did you forget about drawing general tags seeing how your life does not involve around them , I guess we do not need to discuss this.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Wdycle said:


> If 50 people put in with 4 that would be 200 tag's if there all filled. That's what I call MASS group's of people. As for limiting the number of people I guess that the state would loose out on allot of application fee's.


What would stop the "200" from still applying, just doing it separately? :?

The state doesn't make a dime from application fees now!


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

So tell me where do the fee's go? :? I guess you have a point about them putting in separately.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> it is about the draw system and Utah has a draw system do we not? and it is not just for LE it is for hunting in general right. or did you forget about drawing general tags seeing how your life does not involve around them , I guess we do not need to discuss this.


Now the insults start, is that because your stance is so weak? What does a general season deer tag cost? Answer $35.00, I seriously doubt $35.00 would deter anyone. In MOST situations, applying for a general season tag is a 1-3 year cycle, so those who apply for them have a fairly high chance of drawing a general season tag. And. since *you* are talking general season, are *you* saying *you * would like to LIMIT the number of applicants for general season tags?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Wdycle said:


> So tell me where do the fee's go? :? I guess you have a point about them putting in separately.


The application fees go to the company the does the draw in Nevada. Utah contracts this process out.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

Pro here you go again twisting things around trying to say that I want to limit this and that,

in my first post I said 
If someone could not afford the upfront fees in the first place then that said person has no business putting in for a tag. 

Now why is this so hard to understand?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

What is hard to understand is, this would limit, as I have ALREADY mentioned, families from applying. Under *your* scenario, how would a family with limited funds apply and build bonus points? Here is my scenario again; Dad, mom, and three kids are all wishing to one day hunt elk on a LE elk unit. So, since dad has the most points, he applies for a tag, while just buying points for the mom and three kids. This way, dad gets his tag, the rest get points, which will then be used when dad gets his tag. That way, when the three kids are adults, and they have the funds to pay for a tag they will have the points to obtain a tag. Under your scenario, mom and the three kids are SOL, and may NEVER draw a LE tag.

Now why is this so hard to understand? :shock: :wink:


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

only if you have money to pay for the bonus points, because they will not be giving the point's out for free.
no matter how you look at it you have to pay for something. so if you do not have the money I guess you can not play.

i know that we are not all financially wealthy, and I do not care how many kids you have it was your choice to have them not mine or any else's.


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> What is hard to understand is, this would limit, as I have ALREADY mentioned, families from applying. Under *your* scenario, how would a family with limited funds apply and build bonus points? Here is my scenario again; Dad, mom, and three kids are all wishing to one day hunt elk on a LE elk unit. So, since dad has the most points, he applies for a tag, while just buying points for the mom and three kids. This way, dad gets his tag, the rest get points, which will then be used when dad gets his tag. That way, when the three kids are adults, and they have the funds to pay for a tag they will have the points to obtain a tag. Under your scenario, mom and the three kids are SOL, and may NEVER draw a LE tag.
> 
> Now why is this so hard to understand? :shock: :wink:


So why would they be SOL? Couldn't they just apply and get the point's by themselve's? :? And who say's Dad alway's draw's out? Also who say's dad's not using Mom and the kid's to increase his odd's?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Here is an example. Pro, has 3 teenagers and himself putting in for the hunts then this what he would have to pay if Utah was the same way.

$1120 4- LE elk tags
$140 4- General Season deer tags
$120 4- Hunting Licenses

Lets add in OIL
Bart- Bighorn $508.
1st kid Moose $408 (this went up $100 dollars this year)
2nd kid Goat $408
3rd kid Buffalo $408

In order for Pro and his 3 kids to play the game then Pro would have to pay upfront: Approx $1892

You guys whine about the rich man's sport but yet you all want to pay upfront but who has that type of money right after Christmas??


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> i know that we are not all financially wealthy, and I do not care how many kids you have it was your choice to have them not mine or any else's.


This is not about ME, it is about hunters in general, and seeing how recruitment of younger hunters in declining fast, why would we want to accelerate it?



> So why would they be SOL? Couldn't they just apply and get the point's by themselve's? :? And who say's Dad alway's draw's out? Also who say's dad's not using Mom and the kid's to increase his odd's?


If you made it fees upfront, how is a 14 year old kid supposed to 'afford' to build his/her points?

How is using jr's 1-4 points going to help dad? It would HURT his odds, not help! Dad may not draw, that was NOT the point, the point is dad would apply for the tag, while mom and kids built points.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

CS in your post why all the OIL tags shhh's you have to have money to even apply for such tags in the first place unless you have the money saved up to pay for them. 
If you do not have the money then why apply?


why not just pick something out you would like to try for and not go over your limit.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> CS in your post why all the OIL tags shhh's you have to money to even apply for such tags in the first place unless you have the money saved up to pay for them.
> If you do have the money then why apply?


You would be cutting out a lot of people from even applying for a OIL tag if they had to pay for it upfront.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

If just *one person* wanted to apply for elk, deer and OIL then they would have to spend *$778.00*


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> This is not about ME, it is about hunters in general, and seeing how recruitment of younger hunters in declining fast, why would we want to accelerate it?


Pro I know it's not about you or me, Why would someone who is already in debt up to his arse even try to get further in debt?

A person can only put in for what he can afford to pay for unless he likes living in debt all the time so paying upfront should not hurt someone.

No animal is worth what we in Utah are being charged, our prices for LE permits are like a non-residents price as it stands.

so if you want to keep the younger generation interest then the price will have to come down not up.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> If just *one person* wanted to apply for elk, deer and OIL then they would have to spend *$778.00*


You can only draw one of them not all. So what is your point you still have to pay for one of them.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

To me, it still comes down to what is accomplished by making hunters pay upfront? If all the desired outcome is, to improve 'my' odds, is that an idea based on not what is good for hunters as a whole, but on what is good for 'me'?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > This is not about ME, it is about hunters in general, and seeing how recruitment of younger hunters in declining fast, why would we want to accelerate it?
> ...


So, under your scenario, would those who just want a point be forced to pat the tag price upfront, or would they be allowed to just 'purchase' a point?

The tag fees ARE worth the price charged, because of supply and demand. The best way to decrease the cost would be to increase the supply, not by lowering the demand.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

You can apply for ALL 3 and if you were required to pay upfront then you would be charged $778.00 and then you whine that our licenses are like nonresident tags hahahahaha

You can draw LE Elk and General season deer. Your OIL money would be refunded back to you.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> You can apply for ALL 3 and if you were required to pay upfront then you would be charged $778.00 and then you whine that our licenses are like nonresident tags hahahahaha
> 
> You can draw LE Elk and General season deer. Your OIL money would be refunded back to you.


I suggest you look the guide book over unless the rules have changed the only fee required in multi able tags is the highest fee only not all the tags combined.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Or you would just pay the highest fee for LE or OIL and then pay for your deer tag. So if you put in for goat, elk and deer and bought your hunting license then you would pay $573


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I am done with this.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> I am done with this.


 Bye! :mrgreen:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Well there is no reason to limit hunters just to make the odds better. The DWR would lose revenue because hunters couldnt afford to hunt with their familes and they would have to raise the price of the tags even higher to make up for lost revenue.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I am done with this.


You are starting to get really soft for your old age.


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Well there is no reason to limit hunters just to make the odds better. The DWR would lose revenue because hunters couldnt afford to hunt with their familes and they would have to raise the price of the tags even higher to make up for lost revenue.


How would they loose revenue? :? Are you saying the single man's money isn't as good as a family man's money? :? There still going to draw the same amount of tag's :roll: Who say's you have to hunt with your family? There is no differance! Why would they raise the price's??


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> You are starting to get really soft for your old age.


it's not that, right now I see this going around, around, and around leading to nowhere.

I'll let you keep the babbling going on.


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## BugBuilder (Oct 17, 2007)

Wow, this post took off! I see some good points to both sides of this. Let me explain my thoughts on the original post. The hunt I'm talking about is a general season deer, not the late season trophy hunt. I do not have a problem fronting the money, this is only the license not the tag itself. The only problem I have is not recieving a bonus point if I do not draw and I get a refund. I would be happy to pay the ten bucks and get one point if I didnt draw. 

BugBuilder


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## Wdycle (Sep 11, 2007)

So your paying $142.00 for an out of state license only? Plus the cost of the permit you possibly draw? I don't think they will refund both? :?


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Pro, you would get further talking to the wall then trying to explain yourself to some on this site.......O|* O|* 


I apply in a few states, and I do so in the states that do not make you buy a licence. I try to plan a good quality hunt every 2-3 years. So I play the points game and plan accordingly. My wife apply's for one state, but the others I do it alone. In a few years I will start putting in my daughter for hunts.

As it stands right now, if I want to have a good quality hunt. I have to plan and look out of state to achieve this goal. I happen to have a job where I make good money. But I still can not offerd to by licences in 5 different states. 

This is where it is turning into a rich man's game. And it is the selfish people who say I don't care. All they care about is me me me,and what can I do to make my odds better and I don't care about what goes on as long as I get to hunt each year. Look at where these dumba$$ additudes have gotten us? If people whould have cared more in the past, Utah's deer herds would be alot better off, and now we are trying to recover from our piss poor additudes.

I am with Pro on this, if it benefits the herds, then I am all for sending money up front. But if it purely for greed then I say no.


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## silversalmon66 (Dec 12, 2007)

I would just send them a check for charity, then move on to the state. :lol:


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## silversalmon66 (Dec 12, 2007)

Opps, ment move onto the next state. :roll:


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## silversalmon66 (Dec 12, 2007)

Wd, had too much plowing to do this morning, waiting for the door to open on the hill, will let ya know when it happens. Did you get alot of snow this morning?


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## soules2007 (Oct 29, 2007)

Help me understand somthing if you pay the 142.0 in nevada and dont draw and get a refund on the 142.0 you will not get a bonus point? so a bonus point with a chance to draw is 142.0 Wow lets say you put in for 12 years to draw and all twelve years you were unsucsessful. you will have paid in the neighborhood of 1600 dollars for 12 bonus points? i really must be reading this wrong. because if thats the case. Thats total BS!! :x


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## BugBuilder (Oct 17, 2007)

Wdycle said:


> So your paying $142.00 for an out of state license only? Plus the cost of the permit you possibly draw? I don't think they will refund both? :?


You only have to pay the 142 for the license up front, the tag ($240) is only charged if you draw. You only have to worry about the refund on the license.



soules2007 said:


> Help me understand somthing if you pay the 142.0 in nevada and dont draw and get a refund on the 142.0 you will not get a bonus point? so a bonus point with a chance to draw is 142.0 Wow lets say you put in for 12 years to draw and all twelve years you were unsucsessful. you will have paid in the neighborhood of 1600 dollars for 12 bonus points? i really must be reading this wrong. because if thats the case. Thats total BS!! :x


Yes that is correct, but you can buy a bonus point for ten dollars. Which is the way I will go. I figure to "bank" some bonus points, then start applying for the actual draw.

I hope this clears some of this up.

BugBuilder


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## tweedmadsen (Nov 16, 2007)

You guys have ignored the best part about the Nevada draw system--how they account for bonus points in the draw.

Instead of giving xx% of tags to guys with max bonus points, they square the amount of bonus points to give those with the most points a big advantage--but without eliminating the chance that somebody with fewer points could draw the tag.

For example, if I have 10 bonus points, I get 10 x 10 = 100 points for my bonus points + 1 point for my application this year, so a total of 101 names in the hat.

The guy who has 5 bonus points gets 5 x 5 bonus points + 1 point = 26 total points. So this guy has about 25% the odds of drawing that the guy with twice as many points has. 

I sure wish Utah would switch to this method.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I like Utah's "hybrid" system better myself. It does what Nevada does for the 'general' draw, while giving 50% of the tags to max point holders. It is both a preference point system and a bonus point system. That way if you have a ton of points you know you will draw, but if you only have a few points the hope is still there of drawing. I hope Utah keeps the draw system we have.


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## soules2007 (Oct 29, 2007)

:? :? Utah charges the $5.00 for the draw fees and pays a nevada company?? Just me but shouldnt the money stay in a utah company? Just a thought. I am willing to bet their is a utah based company that could handle the draw? Has this ever come up before?


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