# advice on utah moose



## 12guagerage (Sep 22, 2014)

Ill have 9 points this year for moose, I dont know whether i should keep buying points or if its time to put in. I have no idea on units, succes rates, pretty much everything about moose hunting. Any advice would greatly be appreciated


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have 15 and utah's moose herd is spiraling down. That said you def won't get a tag if you don't put in. It's just a bad time for the herd statewide.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

12guagerage said:


> Ill have 9 points this year for moose, I dont know whether i should keep buying points or if its time to put in.....


:rotfl::shock: 

Couldn't resist......

I did this quick so hopefully I pulled the numbers right....(Goofy?)

2014-resident

8,200 guys put in for moose points only
2,062 of those guys had 10 points or more.....

18,186 guys put in for the draw
5,671 of those guys had 10 points or more....

so in 2014 if I added right....there were 7,733 guys with 10 or more moose points.....

There were a total of 86 permits giving out for the year. 32 Bonus and 54 regular. This is all resident tags (there were 7 non-res tags).

I'm laughing and crying with ya...I have 17 points and only have a few hundred guys with more points then that above me. Hope my kid is ready for a moose tag, cuz when Im 90 he can wheel me into the mountains so I can watch him shoot my moose if there are any left at that time ;-)

Good luck!


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Yep. I always put in because you cant win it if your not in it but at 39 and with 10 points currently im hoping to get my tag sometime before my 55th birthday.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I have 18 moose points. I have over 17 years before they "have" to give me a permit from the bonus pool. Moose hunting in Utah is almost an impossibility for most at this point. O well, it will be a fun hunt whenever I do draw!


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

3arabians said:


> Yep. I always put in because you cant win it if your not in it but at 39 and with 10 points currently im hoping to get my tag sometime before my 55th birthday.


.....only if you pull a random regular tag....because it won't be a bonus point tag.

I hope a few of us do!


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

Put in!!! I drew my moose tag with one point.


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## 12guagerage (Sep 22, 2014)

Hmmmm.... what to do.. im 23 now if i keep buying points i guess in 20 more years I might get drawn but tje moose might not be... Ill have to travel to alaska to fulfill my dream I guess


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

gdog said:


> 3arabians said:
> 
> 
> > Yep. I always put in because you cant win it if your not in it but at 39 and with 10 points currently im hoping to get my tag sometime before my 55th birthday.
> ...


Its just sick and wrong isnt it? So I will be 70 hopefully when I get in the bonus. I definitely will need the help of my now 2 year old son if that's the case WTH.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

I cant wait to drop my bull with my plasma rifle.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I gave up on Utah moose, and soon to give up on the bison. I figure that I'll be close to 90 when I draw a moose tag and over 90 when I get the bison tag. 

I figured out long ago if you really want to hunt these animals to just go where the tags are over the counter and bite the bullet and purchase one, even if a guide is needed.


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## silencer (May 12, 2010)

*Put in!!!*

I drew my moose tag with 2 points! .02% chance of success. I was gonna buy a point and my dad told me to put in or you cant draw. Glad I did!


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## Size Matters (Dec 22, 2007)

You can't draw if you don't put in my mom drew a few years ago with 6 points I have 15 points still waiting... anyone know what the max points is?


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Silencer you mutha $#@&**(. Haha. Those are some cool pictures.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

cklspencer said:


> Put in!!! I drew my moose tag with one point.


Rathole


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Once In A Lifetime is a thing of the past. It now takes several lifetimes to draw the best tags. When will points become something you can pass down to your kids when you die?? Probably the same time the iRS starts making us pay capital gains on the value increase when we do draw tags. An accountant would probably consider the difference between what you have invested and the value of a tag as a gain. Must be tax season.:-o------sS


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I can't remember if I have 17 or 18 moose points, I think 18, or was it 19... I'm getting old enough my memory fails me. Sad thing is, I don't know of if I care anymore about killing one. 

-DallanC


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

gdog said:


> I did this quick so hopefully I pulled the numbers right....(Goofy?)
> 
> 2014-resident
> 
> ...


Yes---Insain numbers!

I would 'advise' anyone with less than 16 moose points to pick a different OIAL spices to apply for.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I agree with goofy. In fact everyone should just stop putting in for moose all together. I hear mtn goats and sheep are fun to hunt and lots easier to draw.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Rathole


+1


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Size Matters said:


> ... anyone know what the max points is?


Resident...

21 - 1 person
20 - 10 people
19 - 102 people
18 - 241 people
17 - 424 people
16 - 587 people


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

So your saying there's a chance! 

My buddy drew Wasatch two seasons ago with around 12 points and my Brother drew Ogden back in its hay day with 0 points. There is always a chance, I just don't think most guys realize how futile the odds of drawing OIL tags is. You have to keep trying though!


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

My parents next door neighbor I grew up by is in his 50s and has already drawn OIL moose and bison. What an a-hole.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

colorcountrygunner said:


> My parents next door neighbor I grew up by is in his 50s and has already drawn OIL moose and bison. What an a-hole.


I know of gentleman that had drawn moose, bison, goat, and desert bighorn. He drew the moose tag the first year that he put in and the goat tag only 3 years in, and all the rest over a span of 15 years.

I once asked him what kind of glue he put on that $100 bill that was attached to his application.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

gdog said:


> Resident...
> 
> 21 - 1 person
> 20 - 10 people
> ...


Close --But nope......

Everyone that DIDN'T draw got anther point....
Everyone that just purchased points, Got another point...
This is why most guys dont figure odds right, Called point creep..:!:.

The reality going into the 2015 draws looks like this:
People that didn't draw PLUS people that bought points ONLY:
22 - 1 guy
21 - 7 people
20 - 80 people
19 - 234 people
18 - 421 people
17 - 582 people
16 - 761 people

50 or so bonus tags a year, and 2,089 applicants= 41.78 years to clean
out every one @ 16 points and above right now.

And who knows , the way moose are headed,
We may not even have a huntable herd in 20 years.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Yep, its dismal at best but at 18 I know its coming eventually. Just wish I had the wisdom to go for sheep back in the day. Then there is the one year I applied for buffalo when there were no bonus point tags. That app and the draw change really hurt!


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

goofy,
Please stop posting those kind of things. I need the odds on sheep to stay down after I draw my goat tag here in the next couple seasons. More people should put in for moose, stay away from sheep and goats!!!!! Moose are much funner to hunt, hang in there people and stick to the moose draw its worth chance!!! LOL

Critter nailed it on the head. Right now you can book a great moose hunt in Newfoundland for $7500.00 fully guided and great success rate. Bulls are a little smaller than some Canadian areas. But still 40" range which is actually a pretty nice Shiras. They also shoot some bigger bulls. Think about it this way $200 a month put away and you be there in 3 years! Or you could wait and never fulfill a dream. I'm 41 years old now and I look at this way. I can save a probably have a great adventure about once every 5 years. By the time I am 70 I'll have great memories and stories to share with my grandkids!!! And I might even pull a fun tag or two along the way in Utah.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

maybe one day, if im really lucky, a bull moose will dart in front of my truck. might be the only way I ever get a moose.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

didnt utah transplant some cow moose to CO in exchange for sheep a number of years back?


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

silentstalker said:


> Yep, its dismal at best but at 18 I know its coming eventually.....


Uh...nope...not eventually...maybe luckily. Look at how many guys have 4 points or more and compute your odds.

For younger kids, it most likely will never be anything then a chance at a bonus tag.....


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

35, yep, we traded Colorado a large number of moose for turkeys too. The movement of moose followed by a horrible winter a few years back and parasites has doomed the Ogden herd. Pretty tough.

gdog, im not 18, i have 18 moose points, sorry for the confusion. It made sense in my mind when I typed it!


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

As a new Utah resident a few years back, I was pretty late in the game as far as moose were concerned - I put in a that year, but have since switched to Mt. Goats and feel fine with that decision. It'll take me plenty of years to draw the goat tag as well. If I ever want to hunt a UT moose, I'll just buy a tag if possible. Most likely I'll head up to Canada or somewhere else....

Quick question: which sheep species seems like a better hunt? Deserts or Rocky Mountain Bighorns?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

So riddle me this you guys that are savvy on this moose draw stuff. I have I think 11 or 12 moose points now and I'm just about to turn 31. Do I have a snowballs chance in hell of ever drawing a Utah moose tag before I'm say...70?


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Colorcountry,

It looks like there are 7,667 hunters total with 11 points or more this year (based on 10 pts last year). There is currently 86 total draw tags last year 2014. Thats 32 bonus tags. If moose do not continue to decline and permit numbers stay as is, it would be 239 years before you were guaranteed a moose permit in the bonus pool.

You have to take in to account that many high point holders die off or quit hunting due to age each year, and some give up on the draws all together. 

To answer your question, yes, you have a snowballs chance, but its going to take a lot of luck. What we really need is for the Shiras moose to take un upswing in herd health and see an increase in tags like we used to have 10-15 years ago. Hard to say if that will happen. I for one hope we can figure out a way to help them rebound.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

waspocrew said:


> As a new Utah resident a few years back, I was pretty late in the game as far as moose were concerned - I put in a that year, but have since switched to Mt. Goats and feel fine with that decision. It'll take me plenty of years to draw the goat tag as well. If I ever want to hunt a UT moose, I'll just buy a tag if possible. Most likely I'll head up to Canada or somewhere else....
> 
> Quick question: which sheep species seems like a better hunt? Deserts or Rocky Mountain Bighorns?


Neither, Keep putting in for Goats :mrgreen:

If you must know desert bighorn is the hardest sheep in the grand slam to draw, so you probably better off putting in for Rocky Mountain.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

So glad I started in with RMB sheep points 13 years ago instead of moose. Moose odds are horrendous to say the least...even more so than sheep IMO.

Now, if I had only been smart enough to put in for mountain goats instead of sheep, I would have really been a sharp tack back in the day. As it stands, it will probably be Alaska for both moose and mtn goats. Hope I get lucky on the sheep here in UT...there's a chance albeit small.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

silentstalker said:


> Colorcountry,
> 
> It looks like there are 7,667 hunters total with 11 points or more this year (based on 10 pts last year). There is currently 86 total draw tags last year 2014. Thats 32 bonus tags. If moose do not continue to decline and permit numbers stay as is, it would be 239 years before you were guaranteed a moose permit in the bonus pool.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, silentstalker. I think one thing I have going for me is I bet I'm a good bit younger than a lot of those higher point holders who will eventually die off or quit hunting due to old age so maybe that will clear the way as the decades pass. Shoot, by then mule deer might be and elk might be an OIL hunt!


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Dont give up. Its steep odds but you have just as good a chance as anyone else to draw a random tag! I think it would be pretty neat to hunt moose in our home state. Good luck! I hope you can pull a tag!


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

It took me four years of applying before I drew my moose tag. My friend drew his the first year he applied. We both shot great Bulls.

If you really want to shoot a moose, you can get a tag. It just likely won't be in Utah.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Here is how I look at the OIL situation in Utah. The ONLY people with a "good" chance of drawing a tag in their lifetimes are those within 5 of max. Everyone else, all bets are off...even if you are young. Utah's OIL hunts, especially for residents, for the most part truly are once in a lifetime. You will get to hunt only one of these species, once in your lifetime. (if you're lucky) I know there are the exceptions, but for almost all of us, that is the case. 

You say you have 10 points and some are saying to switch species for better odds because of the 7,000 people with more points than you in the moose pool. However, there would be over 5,000 people with more points than you in the goat pool, over 5,000 in the desert bighorn pool, and over 4,000 in the rocky mountain big horn. There would be even more in the bison pool than are currently ahead of you in the moose pool and as of right now there are more moose tags allotted each year than bison. (although moose are declining, and bison will hopefully increase) 

What I'm saying is you can switch species if you want, but it really won't increase your odds all that much. Some, yes. But not all that much at this time. The question you have to ask yourself is this: Do I want to hunt moose in Utah? If yes, then keep putting in. If you don't, go another direction. You may not draw in your lifetime, but you still have a chance. The only guarantee I can give you is that I know 100% that you will NOT draw if you do not put your name in the hat. (Figuratively speaking...I know they don't draw out of a hat.)

I've got 4 bison points, but 17 elk points. For whatever reason I never started putting in for OIL until just a few years ago. It's too bad, because I would be really close to the bonus pool on a couple units for moose, could draw a cow bison (but would be years away from a bull), would be only a few years away on RMBH, and could draw more than one goat unit right now. Oh well...live and learn. Thank goodness for the expo tags so I actually have a chance at some of these other species as a resident!


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Moose Permits by State

Utah -84

Washington -128

Colorado -45

Idaho -760 

Wyoming - 455

Montana - 380

Maine - 2,215


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Im thinking It wont be long before bull moose hunting is shut down until the population rebounds. In the meantime the dwr will let us continue to buy points every year like the current situation with cow moose. I keep buying cow moose points every year hoping the population rebounds enough to allow us to hunt a cow again.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

colorcountrygunner said:


> So riddle me this you guys that are savvy on this moose draw stuff. I have I think 11 or 12 moose points now and I'm just about to turn 31. Do I have a snowballs chance in hell of ever drawing a Utah moose tag before I'm say...70?


With 11 point just to get into the "max point pool" you're looking at:

Chalk Creek - 113 years
East Canyon - 64 years
East Canyon, Morgan-Summitt - 21 years
Morgan, South Rich - 52 years
North Slope, Summitt - 191 years
North Slope, West Daggett/Three Corners - 99 years
Ogden - 321 years
South Slope, Yellowstone - 56 years
Wasatch Mountains - 141 years
Give or take a few years.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Spot on derek.....^^^^^^^^^

Exactly why I used 16 points as the 'cutoff' on post#18.

The difference between 15 and 16 points in years to draw is substantional....


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Quit wasting your time and money on something that is seriously going to take 10 to 15 years to rebound IF and WHEN the moose start coming back. -O,- 

My thought is to start putting in for points for something else and save your dollars for a moose hunt in Canada or Alaska. Utah is not worth it for moose points at this time. UNLESS you have 17 or more points... 


Just my .02


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Im not giving up on my moose until I get that dang tag.Im got to much in to it now to stop. They only thing going to change for me is the size of the moose. first good bull get the arrow in him.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

derekp1999 said:


> With 11 point just to get into the "max point pool" you're looking at:
> 
> Chalk Creek - 113 years
> East Canyon - 64 years
> ...


This is so depressing! However, the optimist in me would be saying that there were 54 people last year that drew that weren't in the bonus point pool. Why not me?!?!?!?!

That's why the DWR will continue to get my $10 donation for bison, even though my odds are worse than shown above...


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Spot on derek.....^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Exactly why I used 16 points as the 'cutoff' on post#18.
> 
> The difference between 15 and 16 points in years to draw is substantional....


And find yourself at the back end of another OIL that you are unlikely to draw in you lifetime. Goats are the only thing outside of a cow bison hunt that you have any chance of drawing. Desert or Rocky Mountian Bighorn? Don't even think about it. Bull bison? Not a chance. Fact is...OIL has become maybe in my lifetime.

I'm sitting on 14 moose points...I absolutely wish I had picked sheep way back in the beginning. Now...it's too late to do much more than hope for some good luck and be willing to look at less desirable units.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here is the problem I see Dahlmer,
The Utah moose situation may-be in extreme trouble.
Had a bioligst tell me the other day that this winter, and record temps during winter,
could have a very unheathy affect on the remaining moose herd......

There is a real possibility we will not even be hunting moose in Utah in 10-15 years.

Not only that, some of us have points for other OIAL species from years back
when we could apply for everything.

There are guys with 10-15 moose points that have other OIAL points....

I had 5 Desert bighorn points from the early point years.......
Feel like I'm jumping into that draw pool in pretty good shape..:!:..


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Here is the problem I see Dahlmer,
> The Utah moose situation may-be in extreme trouble.
> Had a bioligst tell me the other day that this winter, and record temps during winter,
> could have a very unheathy affect on the remaining moose herd......
> ...


It's a good thing I like hunting deer and elk so much. I'd sure love to hunt moose or any other OIL hunt someday, but if I can just keep having good opportunity at muleys and elk I will be happy with the big game hunting I had available to me in my lifetime.


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## High Desert (Sep 25, 2007)

I was in the moose pool with max points and drew in 2009. It was fun though I wish I had started out with bighorn. You can buy a moose hunt if you really need to shoot a moose. It's much tougher to buy ever afford a desert bighorn tag. Look into Newfoundland. They have abundant moose, beautiful country and very reasonable prices though the moose aren't huge compared to Alaskan - but neither are shiras moose.


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