# Best unit?



## BossMoss (Jan 17, 2015)

I have 7 points for elk and i wanted to get some opinions on what hunt i should put in for? I want to do archery but muzzle-loader is very appealing also... anything will be much appreciated!


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I really cant help you,but wanted to welcome you to the forum:mrgreen:


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## SidVicious (Aug 19, 2014)

You're probably still a ways out on drawing the "best" units. That being said, I've been putting in for the Manti Muzzleloader


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## Blackie6 (Jul 7, 2014)

You have a shot at the Wasatch muzzeloader. It can be a good hunt for a 320-350 bull if you know the unit. If you are patient and want to wait a few more years, the SW desert is the best elk unit that you can draw in the next few years. I love that unit, some really big Bulls and great elk country.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

I would look into the manti


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

7 points will get you a Wasatch LE archery permit,
The muzzy LE bonus permits there are going to 9+ point holders...
And , rather is this year or next, there will be massive tag cuts on the Wasatch.

I agree with hazmat, Manti is in better choice.
And 7 points will pull the archery LE elk tag there........
But beware, the archery elk ENDS Sept 11 this year-----Way early.


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

Since we are talking elk and points what'll ten points get a rifle hunter I just wanna kill a bull elk I ain't picky just getting itchy


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## Blackie6 (Jul 7, 2014)

You could possibly look at some late season hunts such as the manti or nebo.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

chukarflusher said:


> Since we are talking elk and points what'll ten points get a rifle hunter I just wanna kill a bull elk I ain't picky just getting itchy


La sal late would be my choice with 10 points if I was dead set on hunting in 2015.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Go to biggamedrawodds.com and look at the draw odds there. It breaks them down very simply and you can see where you are projected to draw a tag on any specific unit. As many others have said, I would look to the Manti, but you're several years out for the ML hunt. You could pull it as an archery tag though.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Biggamedrawodds has NOT updated to show 2015 odds....

Still showing last years odds using 2013 data.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

BossMoss said:


> I have 7 points for elk and i wanted to get some opinions on what hunt i should put in for? I want to do archery but muzzle-loader is very appealing also... anything will be much appreciated!


There are some pretty good options for archery, with 7 points:
Bookcliffs ,bitter creek
La Sal
Dutton
Fishlake

I personaly would take all 4 of those units over even Manti.....

And of those 4, I like the Bookcliffs best.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> 7 points will get you a Wasatch LE archery permit,
> The muzzy LE bonus permits there are going to 9+ point holders...
> And , rather is this year or next, there will be massive tag cuts on the Wasatch.


Like stated above, you're 2-3 years out on a wasatch muzzy tag. Took 9 the last 2 years.

Goof, you really think they're going to cut tags? Would take a pretty big shift in philosophy on their part, right?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

TS30 said:


> Like stated above, you're 2-3 years out on a wasatch muzzy tag. Took 9 the last 2 years.
> 
> Goof, you really think they're going to cut tags? Would take a pretty big shift in philosophy on their part, right?


Just as berryblaster has stated many times,
The model the DWR is usung to manage the Wasatch elk herd is broken.....
There is NO WERE even close to 8,000 elk still on the Wasatch!

The large herds of cows that were supplying recruitment are destroyed.

SAD, sad deal for the Wasatch elk herd.

And yes, I believe they will be forced to cut tags over the next years.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

BossMoss said:


> I have 7 points for elk and i wanted to get some opinions on what hunt i should put in for? I want to do archery but muzzle-loader is very appealing also... anything will be much appreciated!


With 7 points if you want to hunt this year take a look at the units in the first attachment.
The second attachment are units that have drawn with up to 10 bonus points so they'd be a couple years out for you.

All the numbers are based off the 2014 applicant pool and are assuming that the pools remain static, which they do not.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

chukarflusher said:


> Since we are talking elk and points what'll ten points get a rifle hunter I just wanna kill a bull elk I ain't picky just getting itchy


With 10 points if you want to hunt this year take a look at the units in the first attachment.
The second attachment are units that have drawn with up to 13 bonus points so they'd be a couple years out for you.


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks very much for the help guys I have it narrowed down to two units I appreciate the help


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

goofy elk said:


> La sal late would be my choice with 10 points if I was dead set on hunting in 2015.


I have never hunted the la sals can you give me some insight don't need spots just what kind of hunt to expect for the late hunt thanks


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

chukarflusher said:


> I have never hunted the la sals can you give me some insight don't need spots just what kind of hunt to expect for the late hunt thanks


Bulls are in small groups together or solo, 
GLASS, GLASS , GLASS.......
Good binoculars and a spotting scope will be your best friend....
Look from mid-mountain and base roads....
You'll find them.


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

Is there a lot of private and do I need to worry about a big snow pushing elk into Colorado


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

If your going to put in for an archery tag you better really know the country of the unit you put in for.. Archery elk in Utah is a tough hunt for how ridiculously early it is.. I'v been fortunate enough to take 4 nice bulls on Utah's archery hunts. 1 on the wasatch and 3 on open bull units, but it is tough!! like any hunt, but especially with archery it either all comes together for you, or it can be the toughest hunt of your life.. I would be prepared to eat tag soup more so than if you did Muzzy or Rifle.. that being said, there is nothing more of an adrenaline rush then sticking a screaming bull at 12 yards! i'm an Archery elk hunter through and through. Having done LE Archery Elk in Utah before, I would choose muzzleloader out of the 2 options. (muzzleloader: they are more call friendly, you still got to get close like Archery, but you have the ability of reaching out and touching that 380 bull that you cant get within archery range). these are just my 2 cents..


Some people Hammer big bulls on the Archery hunt though..
my buddy shot a 370 on the second day. it took me 17 days to shoot a 340 bull. talk about having to be mentally in shape


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I wouldn't worry too much about that. After heavy snows, the elk like to hang in the junipers on the blm land from the base of the mountain all along the road to the CO border at John Brown Canyon.


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks for all the help and info I'll keep you guys posted and let you know what I'm gonna do thanks a bunch I got some research to do


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

The La Sals has some CWMU next to public ground. You can use that to your advantage. Just make sure you know where you are at.


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> And , rather is this year or next, there will be massive tag cuts on the Wasatch.
> 
> And 7 points will pull the archery LE elk tag there........
> But beware, the archery elk ENDS Sept 11 this year-----Way early.


How bad do you think the elk tag cuts will be? Last year I was surprised they issues as many as they did. 
Will increasing the unit reflect on tag numbers?

I know they start the season on the 3rd weekend for archery hunters, but why do they not let archery guys who have less success not be able to hunt the run with LE archery tags across the state?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

tallbuck said:


> How bad do you think the elk tag cuts will be? Last year I was surprised they issues as many as they did.
> Will increasing the unit reflect on tag numbers?
> 
> I know they start the season on the 3rd weekend for archery hunters, but why do they not let archery guys who have less success not be able to hunt the run with LE archery tags across the state?


First of all, Controll cow permits need to be removed from the Wasatch.
One more year of these permits will prove to be catastrophe....
80% of the LE antlerless permits sould be removed as-well.

Last year, 2014, there were over 700 LE bull permits issued,
I wouldn't br surpised to see this number cut in half over the next 2-5 years.

Another issue is spike hunting, probably needs to end also for a few years
if they expect the Wasatch to recover for future LE elk hunting........

Ironic, All this oppertunity hunting is going to end oppertunity.....IMO.

And ya, Season structures,
I wish they would change, and add archery oppertunity during the
rut. Move the rifle to October---------But I dont see this happening any time soon.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> First of all, Controll cow permits need to be removed from the Wasatch.
> One more year of these permits will prove to be catastrophe....
> 80% of the LE antlerless permits sould be removed as-well.
> 
> ...


None of this will happen, not as long as there is a herd of close to 500 running around the tabby WMA, the only thing that has even the slightest chance of occurring is the removal of cow control permits.

As long as they are above the age objective LE permit increases will continue, they don't manage according to population with Bulls.

End spike hunting on Utah's most used unit??? Hahaha what are you smoking Goof? They wouldn't even sniff in that direction regardless of how bad it was!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Goof, my question to you was not what is wrong, but how on earth you are going to get the DWR to make the seismic shift in thinking to do what you are saying? I concur with berrysblaster, I don't see that happening. The broken model you speak of is the model that they use all over the state. I don't see anyone convincing them that the model is broken, even if it is broken. 

I would be willing to bet the Wasatch has another increase in LE bull permits this year. (How many years in a row would that be an increase on the unit?) After all, when they decrease the San Juan and other premium units again because they aren't meeting the insanely high minimum age classifications set there, they have to add big bull tags somewhere so they can continue to tell the Utah public that they are not cutting tags across the board. The Wasatch is to elk hunting is what the Provo River is the fishing---Utah's "lady of the night". (I can't believe they edited another word for prostitute that starts with a "W"!)


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

TS30 said:


> Goof, my question to you was not what is wrong, but how on earth you are going to get the DWR to make the seismic shift in thinking to do what you are saying? I concur with berrysblaster, I don't see that happening. The broken model you speak of is the model that they use all over the state. I don't see anyone convincing them that the model is broken, even if it is broken.
> 
> I would be willing to bet the Wasatch has another increase in LE bull permits this year. (How many years in a row would that be an increase on the unit?) After all, when they decrease the San Juan and other premium units again because they aren't meeting the insanely high minimum age classifications set there, they have to add big bull tags somewhere so they can continue to tell the Utah public that they are not cutting tags across the board. The Wasatch is to elk hunting is what the Provo River is the fishing---Utah's "lady of the night". (I can't believe they edited another word for prostitute that starts with a "W"!)


It will have to come from public/hunter preasure, dis-satisfaction levels.

I believe it is coming. The die hard Wasatch hunters are getting pizzed!

Phones ringing of the hook at the DWR with complaints....

Hunters surveys on the Wasatch starting to lean toward 'very unsatisfactory"...

I realize removing spike hunting is a long shot,
BUT, Never say never,,,,,,,,,;-).


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> None of this will happen, not as long as there is a herd of close to 500 running around the tabby WMA, the only thing that has even the slightest chance of occurring is the removal of cow control permits.
> 
> !


Just another part of this problem,

blaster, how many of those 500 head do you believe are Uinta's elk?

Wintering on the south side of hwy 35, being included in Wasatch herd 
estamates, and then returning onto the S Slope for summer fall ?


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## GeTaGrip (Jun 24, 2014)

Other then being an annoyance, why get rid of spike hunting? They don't kill that many animals and it makes the division a ton of money. Just curious why you guys feel that way?


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> Just another part of this problem,
> 
> blaster, how many of those 500 head do you believe are Uinta's elk?
> 
> ...


Too many, but arguing numbers is hopeless just ask mcfly...the only ground we have to stand on is the fluctuation in success rates. After all the model is based off of those, if there are inconsistencies outside of a 'normal' realm then we have grounds to say the model is broken, and we must figure out why before we can continue to manage based off it.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

goofy elk said:


> First of all, Controll cow permits need to be removed from the Wasatch.
> One more year of these permits will prove to be catastrophe....
> 80% of the LE antlerless permits sould be removed as-well.
> 
> ...


I agree the rifle should be later... Like October or November

Give LE Archery all of September, 
Give LE Rifle all of October, 
Give Muzzle all of November, 
and 
Give December to anyone that didn't harvest an LE during there season the opportunity with any weapon.

Because it does take a long time to draw.

Make Limited Entry - Limited Entry - #DownWithTheSpike&Cows


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

GeTaGrip said:


> Other then being an annoyance, why get rid of spike hunting? They don't kill that many animals and it makes the division a ton of money. Just curious why you guys feel that way?


Well for one, I have never seen a spike elk in Utah.

I thought they were a mythical creature, until I went to Idaho and was shocked to see through my binoculars that the bugle I was hearing was from a spike.

It is just a way for the DNR to make money from the common rabble and keep the bull/cow ratio within' the limits.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

I like spikes


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

There is a metric BUTTLOAD of spikes on the monroe.-----SS


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> Too many, but arguing numbers is hopeless just ask mcfly...the only ground we have to stand on is the fluctuation in success rates. After all the model is based off of those, if there are inconsistencies outside of a 'normal' realm then we have grounds to say the model is broken, and we must figure out why before we can continue to manage based off it.


I stayed out of this one for a reason. You can't fix stupid.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Springville Shooter said:


> There is a metric BUTTLOAD of spikes on the monroe.-----SS


I'm sure there are a ton there, because I haven't hunted it.

There are no spikes to be seen in the :

Wasatch Mountains

Manti

Panguitch

Southwest Desert

No one should ever go to these units to hunt spike elk ;-)


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I'm sure there are a ton there, because I haven't hunted it.
> 
> There are no spikes to be seen in the :
> 
> ...


This is true they are all 2x2's...


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

I saw probably 15-20 spikes on the manti this year plenty of bulls as well..


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

brendo said:


> I saw probably 15-20 spikes on the manti this year plenty of bulls as well..


I hunted Manti this year and I saw a 2x2, 4 6x6 bulls, a 5x5 bull, and plenty of cows.

No spikers


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I had a muzzleloader malfunction simultaneously with my dad's malfunction on a spike on the Manti at 10 feet, on a road 1/2 mile from the truck after a grueling 9 mile loop....let's just say that one still stings!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

That's weird we found spikes on almost every outing. It seems like every time we found a group of cows there was at least one spike with them. especially earlier in the season!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

johnnycake said:


> I had a muzzleloader malfunction simultaneously with my dad's malfunction on a spike on the Manti at 10 feet, on a road 1/2 mile from the truck after a grueling 9 mile loop....let's just say that one still stings!


Man that's a bummer! We had a similar experience. Hiked around all day and finally found a group of elk on our way back about 1/2 mile from the car! They were a little out of range but I'm sure if they were closer something would have gone wrong!


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

Just wanted to give you guys that have me some insight on where to apply an update I decided to apply for the nebo late hunt it was closer to home for scouting reasons and I drew it I am super excited I appreciate all the info that was given to me I live in springville so I'll be able to scout a lot any info about that hunt would be appreciated from anybody that's been in it and what I might be able to expect thanks again


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