# What is the best bullet for center fire?



## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

I am going to order a few cases of bullets. I have been a fan of Trophy bonded bear claw in the Federal Premium. (That's what the Federal boys in the booth helped me lean towards a few years ago.) I am going to stick to Federal Premium on these next cases of bullets but the Bear Claw doesn't come in the calibers that I am needing. I have looked over the Federal sight and the bullets available. They range from Barns, Trophy bonded, ballistic tip, nosler partition to many others. I am wanting to get your thoughts on grains and bullets for the 243 and the 30-06. I have a 7mm and a 300 Whthby mag. I shoot 165 grains in the 7mm and 180 in the 300 with the bear claws. The different bullets are available in obviously different sizes in those two calibers that I need them for. 

These would be primarily used for medium game such as Deer and Antelope.

I know that some are going to say that I need to shoot them all and see which one shoots the best. I don't have enough money to pay 50 dollars per box to buy 10 different kind of bullets. I need a good place to start. I can check out the accuracy on the bullet after I get it but I want a proven bullet the begin with. 

Thanx for your help and insight. I obviously have some opinions but would like to hear yours as well. I don't want to share my opinions yet as to not give pre judgments.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I have excellent results with Nosler Partitions. I also shoot the Federal Premiums. We use them in 30-06, 280, 243, 25-06, and 257 Roberts. We have used them on deer, elk, antelope, moose, and other animals with great success. 

I believe the 243 runs around 100gr, the 30-06 at 165 or 180, the 25-06 at 115gr, 280 at 150gr, my buddy's 7mag at 160gr. All have performed very well. I am to the point where reloading is probably the direction I will head. I just need to shoot the boxes of shells I have, which should last me another 5 years.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

+1 on the Nosler Partitions, I used them for years with outstanding results with my bigger centerfires. 

I have never used them in my 243 only the old stock remington cor-lok loads in it. I have had good results with them, but have switched over to 100 grain PMC loads with their factory softpoints (cheaper), they do pretty well, but I haven't used them on a big game animal yet.

I use the Barnes 150 Gr X-bullets loaded in the PMC Gold line for my 7mm Mag, but they are getting harder to locate in stores. They do however shoot well and hit hard, I may have to reload to keep using them.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Barnes X bullet.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Barnes X bullet.


I knew there was a reason I loved you! :wink:

100% weight retention, great ballistics, lead free baby!

I have hand loads for my .25-06 in 100gr Barnes XLC. My .300 Win Mag has 165 grainers. My dads .375 H & H is an elk slayer with 270 gr. Barnes X bullets.

Screw noslers; go lead free, maximum controlled expansion... 8)


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## Swaner (Sep 10, 2007)

For my elk hunt last year I ended up buying a box of the TBBC and a box of the Nosler Partition. After shooting the 2 at the range I decided to go with the Partitions, they seemed to fly a little better at longer distances. I ended up shooting my bull at 470 yards and they had great penetration and did some good damage when they hit. Oh, it was out of a 30-06. I'll be using them from now on.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

300 ultra mag: 180 grain scrocco swift with 87.5 grains of 25 reloader blue with a federal magnum primer. It is the only way to fly. 8)


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

Wait a minute..... A guy like you with a thousand dead animals on the wall and you don't reload?? That is like a guy that goes and buys flies from the fly shop and does not tie his own, come on 22 get with the program... You probably don't fletch your own arrows too. :roll:


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

I will add my vote for the Nosler Partitions. Ideal bullet performance varies with the intended target. For game with less body mass yoiu want a bullet that expands quickly, releases a lot of energy and does not over penetrate. For larger game a bullet that expands too quickly may not penetrate to vital organs. The partition is the closest thing I can think of to two bullets in one. The front of the bullet expands quickly and releases a lot of energy but even if the front of the bullet completely fragments the back part of the bullet just keeps on penetrating.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

north slope said:


> Wait a minute..... A guy like you with a thousand dead animals on the wall and you don't reload?? That is like a guy that goes and buys flies from the fly shop and does not tie his own, come on 22 get with the program... You probably don't fletch your own arrows too. :roll:


I do fletch my own arrows but that is where it ends. I don't like to interrupt my huntin' time! 

Good info so far guys. I have been leaning to the Nosler Partition and the Barnes. I have never shot Barnes other than in my muzzy. I have had good luck over the years with the noslers. That doesn't mean that a new bullet cant beat it though.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Barnes TSX. They are as accurate as anything out there. And they won't blow up. Because they typically retain 100% of there weight after expansion, you can drop down in bullet weight and still get good performance.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

My buddy and I used Barnes, once. The buck was shot at 70 yards, lung shot, between 2 ribs. No expansion. The buck ran off and was shot 3/4 mile away by another hunter. We went down to see what had happened. There were 2 perfect "pin-holes" on each side; the bullet never opened. I am sure their technology is better now, but there are too many other choices out there.

Here are the Barnes a friend of mine shot in Africa last year. You decide if they functioned properly:









I like a bullet to come-apart and transfer its energy into the animal. The Partition, I believe, is the best of both worlds: It opens and transfers energy, yet the back portion retains it weight which allows for great penetration.

We all know that any decent bullet will kill with proper shot placement. Barnes, Partitions, Accubonds, and many other high quality bullets.

Zim, you shooting birds with solid copper?


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> Zim, you shooting birds with solid copper?


They might make us some day...big game too! Best to just be prepared.

Packout, I have shot several animals with Barnes X "type" Bullets and all but two went completely through the animal, *as they should*. They open a wound channel while transferring energy, and complete pass throughs are the norm. BTW, if your bullet passed completely through the deer how do you know it didn't expand? :?

I shot a deer last year with the .300 Win Mag (arguably a little much for deer...but I really like that gun! :mrgreen: ) Anywho, he was shot through the liver and 1 lung...and went only 15 yards. However, he only had two "pin sized" holes, one entry one exit...but had massive internal damage. I've shot 3 other deer with that gun, all comlete pass-though, one-shot kills.

This one we dug out of an elk from my pops .375 H & H; performed magnificently.









And this one came from my elk a couple of years ago.









You certainly can't go wrong with the partition, and by golly its killed jillions of critters over the years; but so has the 30-30 and it aint exactly a top notch caliber. :wink:

And of course we can all post up pics of bullets once removed, which really has no bearing as to the true functionality of the bullet. My point is simply that partition is old technology, and there are newer and more premium bullets out there. If yer gonna hand load that special round for that very special hunt&#8230;why not use the best.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Zim, I do use the best! haha This argument can never be finalized because they all kill the animal. You suggest the Partition is "old" technology and you are right. But then again the 300 Win Mag is "old" too, but it works.



> if your bullet passed completely through the deer how do you know it didn't expand?


The deer I referred to had two round holes on each side, as if it had been shot with a full metal jacket. The chronographed loads were pushing 2,900 fps out of a 30-06. When the X performs and petals, the exit hole is much more harsh and is not round. And yes, the Barnes is meant to go through the animal, but by doing so the energy it maintains on exit is not transferred to the animal. No big deal really, because when they perform the way they are intended there is more then enough energy to kill. Even the junkers pictured in my post ended up killing the animal.

The energy/exit, weight retention debate is also a great thread topic, but we'll leave that for another thread.

Nice photos of your bird hunts, by the way. Your camera really brings out the colors nicely.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I am sold Zim! Wow, that Barnes knocked the ivories right out of that elk, I am going to start shooting the Barnes X bullet. Is it just me or do your fingers look really grimey? Why don't you wash your hands next time Zimmy, gross..... :mrgreen:


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Personally, I'm still waiting for the perfect rifle bullet to come along.  

My experience with Partitions is that while the back half retains its lead, the front half often separates on impact so I end up with only about 50% bullet weight retention. With the Barnes, the retention is there, but I can't get them to shoot as accurately as a jacketed bullet. I haven't tried any moly coated bullets, but I'm told they foul your barrel rather quickly so accuracy suffers.

A bullet I'd like to try is Hornady Interbonds. Anybody have any experience with these??


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

Pack out
I have had the same issue as you have with the same bullet other then it was a 300 weatherby. I have found that for the 300 weatherby the ballistic tip works best. It is a very explosive bullet on deer though. If you are ok with a little more damage from the bullet then the ballistic tip is the way to go.


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

Remington Safari Grade A Frames.......... They triple in size and retain 95% of there weight....I have dug a few out of elk but have never taken pictures of them...... Just my 2 cents


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Talk, talk, talk, of course you are getting all kinds of recommends about many brands of bullets and the reason is that nearly all major brand bullets work well if you use the proper bullet for the game you are after. This is what to do:
Buy a box of any of the majors brand of bullets. Besure you buy bullets that are identified by the maker for the type of game you plan to hunt. Luckly, you can use that same bullet for nealy any big game in the USA so you don't need to work up loads for all the different species. As to proper weight of bullet, the simplest way to find the best bullet is to just buy the bullet that falls about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way up the weight scale of bullets made for the caliber you shoot. Nearly all rifle manufactures rifle there rifles to handle a "range" of bullet weights and best accuracy generally is with bullets in the middle and a little above the middle of the weight range. . You will find that these weight bullets will nearly always be more accurate and deadly. Now that you have choosen a bullet, try and work up a load that is accurate, if you are not happy with the accuracy, start the process over with a different brand bullet...you will soon find a good shooting load that you can use for the rest of your life. 
Good luck and remember...use enough gun!


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

Any one who thinks the Barnes fouls a barrel more and is inaccuartate hasn't shot them in a long time. The TSX fouls no more than any other brand and is very accurate if you use the proper seating depth. They like to be back off the lands and run at high speeds for accuracy. 
The reason people think they don't expand is because the hide expands on the far side of the animal as the bullet is leaving still in one piece and not fragmented so you dont get an explosive hole very often out the other side. I'm amaised at how many times I hear that the bullet didn't perform but the animal was dead with good internal damage and a very small exit wound.
If you are haveing a hard time getting accuracy out of a Barnes, give them a call and let the customer support department help you out. They are great and will help you get the accuracy you are looking for and you will get great weight retention always!
I shot a bison with a 200 gr Nosler Partition in the sholder and the bullet broke the sholder but went no further. Upon recovery, the bullet weighed 62 Grains! We had to chaise that animal all over the Henery mountains after that to get it done. Turned into a long day. That is bullet failier in my mind. 
I've shot nothing but Barnes sence that day 12 years ago and they have only got better and better.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

What is the difference between the X bullet and the TSX?


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

Have any of you tried the bonded bullets like the Hornady Interbond or the Nosler Accubond? They are supposed to hold their weight while also providing a high BC for greater down-range capability.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> Have any of you tried the bonded bullets like the Hornady Interbond or the Nosler Accubond?


Yes tried accobound 300 weatherby. It was a great choice of a couple of the rifles but not for all of them. Loved the damage they do to deer. I am weird but I am ok with more damage if it stops deer in there tracks.


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## Nvbuck (Dec 20, 2007)

Elk
The difference between the two are the TSX has three grooves cut into them i am not sure what they where trying to gain by this but i think to reduce pressure and some of the fouling,i am currently shooting some of the TTSX 168 gr. in my 300 ultra and they are very accurate but i cant seem to get them to shoot as fast as they say in the data they have for them the only difference in these and the TSX is they have a pretty blue tip,it looks to me like the X bullet is just as good if not better because they have lost some of the B.C.by cutting those grooves in them,still mine is shooting less than an 1"@ 100yds and i have had great success with the performance on all types of game with my .300 .338 and 25-06 I love them .


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Neener, neener, neener...X bullets rock! :mrgreen:


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

By cutting the grooves in the TSX bullet, it reduces the surface area of the bullet to the bore. This will decrease fouling and pressure. It gives the copper a place to "flow" into and this was the key to makeing the Barnes bullets much less picky about what guns would shoot them. Their reputation for accuracy went way up when they started doing this. The BCs did go down a bit, but if you run the numbers, it makes no difference at under 300 yards and only about a 1-2" differnce out to 500 yards. Most of us have no business shooting at that range anyway, let alone further than that.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Fer me, I load a 165 gr Sierra Grand Slam flat base bullet with 68 grains of Win. 760 ball powder in my 30-06. With that load in my Interarms rifle I can cover 5 shots with a dime at 100 yards, and it flat smokes anything with 4 legs. It's just too bad I don't hunt with a gun anymore... Too easy... :wink:


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Fer me, I load a 165 gr Sierra Grand Slam flat base bullet with 68 grains of Win. 760 ball powder in my 30-06. With that load in my Interarms rifle I can cover 5 shots with a dime at 100 yards, and it flat smokes anything with 4 legs. It's just too bad I don't hunt with a gun anymore... Too easy... :wink:


What are you talking about?? You don't do anything anymore, maybe I will buy you a rascal for your birthday, you can cruise around on that and tell us all how you use to do this and used to do that. :? Let's go fishing!


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## slybuck (Feb 27, 2008)

North Slope I have a new respect for you, You hit it right on the head. I also use swift sirracco 160's on everything. I shoot a 7mm and my brother shoots a .280, between the two of us, (because we can share bullets) we have tried all of the bullets on your list, and then some. I can honestly say that without a doubt the swift sirracco has out-performed every bullet in every test from expansion, penetration, weight retention, and accuracy. Bar-none the best bullet on the market. I am willing to show you all of the slugs we have recovered over the years, There are some fundamental flaws with the bear claw... accuracy is always the biggest issue. with the barnes x (a great bullet if you are not going very fast) always falls apart (loses the 4 pedals) and becomes like a solid pencil that just pops a hole in the target wile leaving a flesh wound where the pedals broke off just under the skin. (on faster bullets that is....like 3300fps or faster). nosler has weight retention problems, the only bullet we found that met our criteria of 3X its original Dia. for expansion, 80%or better on weight retention, and accurate enough to drive nails was the Swift Sirraco, for all calibers fast and slow. Also besides all of the name brands, the most important tell tale sign about your bullet will be the ballistic co-efiecient. the key word being "efficient" the higher the number the better off you are for performance when pluged into the equations to figure force etc. Remember Accuracy above all, Ballistic Co-efficient, then speed are the things you need for a lethal accurate round. Also don't think you have to load a bullet hot to get it to do what you want, often that has a negative effect. Good luck and keep on shooting.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Great post Sly buck. In fact I appreciate all of the posts and the great info that you have enlightened me with. I have learned quite a bit from all of this. 

My friend is getting me Federal Premium loads. That is what I can order from him unless I want to spend more money and buy it somewhere else. I have always liked those loads but really needed to decide which bullet that I would want to shoot with them as some of the calibers come in several different bullets and sizes. Some of the bullets that have been mentioned are not an option for me unless I do what North Slope says and spend lots of money on a press so I can save some money.  They aren't available in the Federal Premium loads. That's ok. There are many good loads out there and I'm sure there are some Ford vs. Chevy type arguments but I feel that if Federal is using the bullets that they are for their premium loads, they must be pretty good ones.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Elk22,

Good luck in your search for a bullet...lot's of opinions here. I'll share my experience with you.

We have used Barnes and Nosler Partition as well as Accubond (once on an animal).

I have never had a Nosler Partition fail. A good shot has always resulted in a found animal. We have shot them through 6mm, 270, 7mm mag, 30'06, 300 Win Mag, and 300 WSM without issue. They have been absolutely deadly for us.

Here are some pictures of the bullet retrieved from my bull last fall. It broke both front shoulders after travelling 300 yards and was found under the hide on the off shoulder. The bull dropped on the spot like he had been hit in the head.


































I don't think you will be disappointed with them. Balitics may not look as good as some others, but I have found them to be very effective.

My dad killed a buck last year using an Accubond through a 300 WSM. The deer was dead on its feet and left blood all over the hill side for the 50 - 60 yards that it rolled down hill. That's only one experiece, but I have heard great experiences from others as well.

Unlike slybuck and north slope, I don't have anything positive to say about the Sirracco. I have a buddy that used them on an elk hunt a few years ago with disasterous results. Don't know if he had a bad batch of bullets or they were hand-loaded poorly, but I will never use them after his experience.

Nothing overly negative about barnes...just found that they don't always provide the expansion I would like. The early models copper fouled quite a bit, but I believe they have fixed that.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I have killed 2 cow elk and a moose with the sirocco they all died and I ate them. Sirocco's have some of, if not the best Ballistic Co-efficient out there, they fly! 22 go ahead and buy some generic, boring, poorly loaded, factory ammo I am sure it will get you in the 'ballpark' of where your shooting. They will go well with your store bought flies. :roll:


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

http://www.3darts.de/beispielaufnahme.htm

This is some vidio of a TSX in just 3" of balistics Gel. For people who don't think they expand fast enough, I don't get it. Maybe you want it to expand bigger but then, there are alot of things we want to do that.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

north slope said:


> 22 go ahead and buy some generic, boring, poorly loaded, factory ammo I am sure it will get you in the 'ballpark' of where your shooting. They will go well with your store bought flies. :roll:


The way it was explained to me might help you in your thought process also. What you say is very true about the "common" ammo. When you go into the grocery store, take a look at the milk containers or maybe the 2 liter bottles of pop. They for some reason are all poured at different levels in the bottles. That is what mass production does. It doesn't have time for precision which makes it "ok" but cheaper. I was told that Federal Premium does the precision and weigh out the grains of powder.

As for the rest of your thinking that do it yourself is better and more quality..................I feel that these people do this for a living. They are professionals. Not to pat myself on the back to hard but I can look at a driveway and know that the home owner had a "do it yourself" project on a Saturday morning and it looks like crap! My job is MUCH better.............Could it be that I have a lot more expertise in this area than the "back yarder"? I say YES! I don't tie flies nor load bullets for a couple of reasons. One is it takes time that I don't have much of and the other is that there are guys out there who are paid to know what a fly should look like and study it. They are paid professionals. My fly to them would look like your driveway to me.  
My reputation is on the line here. There is no way that I am going to submit myself to that kind of ridicule. Besides, bottom line, I want my bullets to fire when I shoot. I trust Federal more than myself.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Good going north slope.....I've never seen elk22 mad like that before...


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> north slope said:
> 
> 
> > 22 go ahead and buy some generic, boring, poorly loaded, factory ammo I am sure it will get you in the 'ballpark' of where your shooting. They will go well with your store bought flies. :roll:
> ...


I built my own fly rods, recurve bow, knives, bow press, treestands wall tent stove, I fletch my own arrows, I press my own bow, tie my own flies and reload ammo ect, ect. Why? Cause I don't want anyone to take the romance out of this outdoor lifesyle I love so much. The more I can get my hands in the dough the better. Hey 22 next time your up fishing have your guide tie on your flies and then you don't have to worry about a good knot. Back to the subject 'the best bullet' I think that most of us missed the best advice and that is: A reloaded quality bullet, worked up for YOUR gun, is going to out preform any factory ammo, period. Reloading takes time but the end product is far superior to any factory ammo.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

Chevron and Texaco make good diesel but at $4.65 a gallon they can keep it. I will go out to the shed and fill my truck up with biodiesel for $1.50 a gallon.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

north slope said:


> Chevron and Texaco make good diesel but at $4.65 a gallon they can keep it. I will go out to the shed and fill my truck up with biodiesel for $1.50 a gallon.


Hey French Fry diesel boy,

I have never had my guide tie my fly on for me. He is much too busy making my sandwiches for that. Before you get your knickers in a twist..............I shoe my own horses, mount my own animals.......(taxidermy them too) fletch my own arrows, mow my own lawn, drive my own truck and everything.................I have seven kids...........Who has time to load their own bullets on top of that. 
If I shot guns a LOT then it would be worth it. I like to buy a case of bullets and it will most likely last me and that gun for the rest of my life. Arrows on the other hand, I go through plenty of those. Maybe I'll start my own carbon factory.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

You could have ended this a long time ago with the SEVEN KIDS part! However, with all the time you spent on this post you could have made a case of premium, more accurate, cheaper, reloads. :mrgreen:


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## Extex (Sep 11, 2007)

hey elk I have shot fed premium for years and have never had a problem -trophy bonded in my 270 & accubonds in the 7mm and 300 have killed everything just fine. Just about all the mentioned bullets will do their job if you shoot straight. Don't matter who loaded it you or federal. Find one that shoots good groups in your gun and use it :lol:


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Hey 22, 

They make premium factory cartridges loaded with Barnes X Bullets, if thats yer preference.

Just a heads up, 

:mrgreen:


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

I switched from Hornaday to barns X 5 years ago. Good expansion and weight retention. After 2 deer, 2 antelope and a caribou, I like them. But don't use the heavyr heights for the caliber. they are too long to stabilize unless you have a very fast twist.


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

Redleg is right, you can use a smaller bullet and get the velocity up with the Barnes. The lighter bullet from Barnes will penetrate as deep as a heavier lead core.


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## Extex (Sep 11, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> Hey 22,
> 
> They make premium factory cartridges loaded with Barnes X Bullets, if thats yer preference.
> 
> ...


The only bad thing about the barnes in federal premium is the $5-$10 more per box they like to charge  than the accubonds. I shoot just enough to make reloading just about a breakeven deal - if I shot barnes I'd more than likely have to reload or pay for the luxury.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

+1 on the Barnes bullets. They are killing machines. I shoot them with my 7mm and my muzzy. Expensive tho.


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## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

Reload, Reload , Reload !!!!!!

Barnes, Barnes, Barnes !!!!!!!





Hey elk22, by the way, I like your avatar


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