# Firearm safety / letter to the editor



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Not a bad opinion piece. It's something most of us know. It's too bad Hollywood isn't required to take a hunter safety course prior to ever using a firearm, or prop, in a movie. When it comes to firearm safety, ignorance is hardly an excuse.












Letter to the Editor: Lessons learned from Halyna Hutchins’ death


OPINION — On Oct. 21 while rehearsing a scene for the movie “Rust,” actor Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed the director of photography, Halyna Hutchins. Unfortunately, the gun used in the scene was mysteriously loaded with at least one live round. The blame game has been furious and...




www.stgeorgeutah.com


----------



## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

While this story gets a lot of attention because it's Baldwin, accidental shootings are all too common and a lot of them involve kids. Education might help, but in many cases, you just can't fix stupid and sometimes, stupid is even built into the training - just one reason I'm glad we got rid of Utah's CCW requirement.


----------



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

So many questions need to be answered in this "Rust" case...Why was there even a live round on the set in the first place? Why was the gun not checked "one more time" just before it was handed to Baldwin, who's job was that?. and last but the most important...why did Baldwin pull the trigger???
To me, it seems like a comedy of errors and probably the result of poor firearms handling protocols, and flippant and reckless behavior by many people on the set. But at the end of the day, Baldwin pulled the trigger at the wrong time. Guns don't just go bang by themselves. I don't like to use the word "accident" in cases like this. Carelessness?, negligence?, I don't know, but accident somehow implies an innocence that is unacceptable to me.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

There may be many complicit, but there is only one responsible.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

The first rule I learned regarding guns was to treat every gun as if it is loaded....Baldwin obviously never learned that lesson.


----------



## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm sorry officer that stuff that was not secured and fell off the back my truck when the bald tires blew out causing the car behind me to crash and kill the driver, it wasn't my fault someone gave me this truck this way. ( sarcasm )

I wonder how that would work out.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

While it should I don't think that you can really associate a movie "prop" gun with one that you know is going to be loaded with live ammo at one time or another. 

This is why they have the movie armorer on the set, to deal with the firearms. Then when a weapon is handed to a actor the actor should be able to do whatever they plan on doing with it in safety. 

Can you imagine a movie such as Tombstone being shot with the actors checking their firearms every time that they are handed one to see if it is a blank, dummy round, or if someone slipped a live round into the chamber? 

In my opinion someone on this set screwed up, as as much as I can't stand Baldwin I don't believe that it was him. There is no way that a live round should be anywhere near where one of their firearms is stored at.


----------



## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

As a business owner or production supervisor on a job I am ultimately responsible for what happens on the job, I will be the one that will be held accountable, I don't know what Baldwins responsibility as producer on the set is but even though there are others that I think have some responsibility to the negligence of this situation I feel that some of the blame does go to him.

I guess the lawyers and jury will decide the amount of culpability that each person has.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> Can you imagine a movie such as Tombstone being shot with the actors checking their firearms every time that they are handed one to see if it is a blank, dummy round, or if someone slipped a live round into the chamber?


If they are using firearms -- YES! It shouldn't matter where, why, how. Any time a firearm is passed from one person to another it should be checked. Even in movies. Imagine Hollywood promoting gun safety in a movie!!



Critter said:


> In my opinion someone on this set screwed up, as as much as I can't stand Baldwin I don't believe that it was him. There is no way that a live round should be anywhere near where one of their firearms is stored at.


You are correct. Obviously, someone did something they shouldn't have. It might have been by accident or intentional. However, that doesn't exempt Baldwin. For how long have gun advocates proclaimed "guns don't kill people, people do"? There was only 1 person that pointed that gun and pulled the trigger: Baldwin. Regardless of his intentions, he pointed that gun and pulled the trigger, which resulted in 1 person losing their life. He was responsible for that action. Was this murder? No. But it was manslaughter. And maybe it will be wrongful death too.


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

What we know- a string of multiple single mistakes had to happen for something like this to occur. It’s not on one single person or mistake that is at fault, even though fixing any one of what appears to be many single mistakes would have prevented this tragedy. There is a lot of blame to share around on this one just by the very fact that something like this happened. 

What we don’t know- Other than someone is tragically dead, we don’t really know anything else. Any discussion about it is conjecture and speculation. I mean, it’s the internet, so go ahead, but it doesn’t change that we don’t really know what happened here. 

The biggest question I had when I first heard about this that remains today: “Hollywood uses real guns in movies?” That baffles me for so many reasons.


----------



## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I'm guessing this leads to finally ending the practice. It's long overdue.

My friend works as a set foreman in NM and the hours these crews work is nuts. I'm shocked these accidents aren't more common actually. The fatigue alone has to be a variable you consider when developing a risk management plan or industry reform.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A lot of it just comes down to a single question, why was there live ammo on a movie set?

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You guys, this is an industry mostly made up of people that would gladly take your guns away from you without blinking. Many of the people directly involved, including the “trigger man,” don’t like guns. 

Add to that nugget that it’s 2021 with all our available technology and I ask myself once again, “Hollywood uses real guns?”

Truly baffling.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I watched a interview a week or so again with a Hollywood special effect guy about that very question. His answer was that it isn't perfected enough to get the sound at the right time so they use real guns with blanks. But even a blank round will cause damage if you are close enough to it.

But I am sure that there are programmers out there looking for some big bucks that are working on it.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Kyle Rittenhouse case -- closing arguments. Defense attorney gets the AR-15. The judge asked "did you check it?". The attorney replies "he said he checked it" pointing to someone else. The judge replied "check it again".

Good job judge.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I thought the same thing and after what has happened in the other case I believe that they are being extra careful. 

I am surprised that they are using the actual rifle instead of a mock up one.


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Critter said:


> I am surprised that they are using the actual rifle instead of a mock up one.


That is evidence in the crime. You bring the evidence of the crime to trial. The real evidence, not fake evidence. Of course, they could have brought in pictures, but those are not nearly as scary as bringing in the real scary black rifle. Good move by the prosecutor. 

I can't believe you guys are watching this! I am not even watching it, and this is my wheelhouse. (Maybe that's just why I'm not?)


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I caught it just right as I was making lunch.

I understand about having the actual rifle as they are presenting evidence but this was during the defences closing argument where he was demonstrating angles of fire from couple of stances of the defendant 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> I can't believe you guys are watching this! I am not even watching it, and this is my wheelhouse. (Maybe that's just why I'm not?)


I texted my brother last week on Wednesday to ask if he was watching. His answer was similar to your line of thinking -- it's his job, and thus pretty boring stuff.

I think this has been better than any courtroom movie Hollywood ever dreamt up.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Baldwin said under Hutchins’ direction he pulled the hammer back.


Alec Baldwin said:


> I let go of the hammer and ‘bang,’ the gun goes off,"



His defense is that he didn't pull the trigger.


Again -- this whole thing goes back to education. This is basic firearm safety. What did Alec think was going to happen when he let go of the hammer??


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PBH said:


> Baldwin said under Hutchins’ direction he pulled the hammer back.
> 
> His defense is that he didn't pull the trigger.
> 
> Again -- this whole thing goes back to education. This is basic firearm safety. What did Alec think was going to happen when he let go of the hammer??


There are no end of videos on the internet debunking this. That model of revolver cannot release the hammer without the trigger being pulled. In fact there are 3 different "detents" that the hammer will rest on if you pull back the hammer partially and release. It absolutely will not let the hammer swing free to strike the primer.






-DallanC


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

He's just trying to blame the pistol and not himself. 

None of the single action pistols that I have will fire when you pull the hammer back and let go of it without my finger having the trigger pulled back. 

As the investigation goes on he will keep trying to figure out a way out of what he did by blaming everything and everyone except for himself.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

so you think, as the video showed, that he pulled the trigger - whether he realized it or not?


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Yes. Unless there was some form of mechanical failure at work, the gun is designed to not allow the hammer to fall while fanning it. I think he had the trigger depressed while fanning it and dropping the hammer.

This was Bob Munden's big trick, he would fire the gun with the trigger, then hold the trigger while he quickly fanned and dropped the hammer on the 2nd target. Bob was just crazy stupid fast at it.

-DallanC


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Here's another more comprehensive take on it:






-DallanC


----------



## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I have 2 single action Colt's. And have NEVER had that issue/problem. 
I love both the guns. One was my Dad's. I bought the other one because of his gun years ago.


----------

