# Diagnose the shot with this blood trail:



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Diagnose the shot with this blood trail:
15-year (160 pounds, not a lightweight) old hunter on his first day with his own tag. Shooting 30-06 140 grain Barnes TTSX. 135 yard shot standing still left broadside shot utilizing a very stable rest for a steady shot. Buck bucks up pretty high upon impact immediately runs off on three legs, right side is impacted when left side was facing shooter, parallel to hillside (maintaining elevation) for about 200 yards until out of sight keeping pace with all 7 of the deer in his little group. 
First signs of blood just past where it was standing when shot:
[attachment=2:1iz2bx50]DSCF1247.JPG[/attachment:1iz2bx50]
After about 200 yards the trail does turn perpendicular downhill, but not directly downhill. There are spots like this one about every 200 yards: [attachment=1:1iz2bx50]DSCF1253.JPG[/attachment:1iz2bx50]
Note in this picture that the blood is very wet/fresh, yet the leaf at about 4 o'clock has the white foamy substance (not shown very well in pic). There are also numerous spots like this log where the blood looks orange, this may be due to the color of the log to make it look this way: [attachment=0:1iz2bx50]DSCF1251.JPG[/attachment:1iz2bx50]
I will tell the rest of the story shortly, but I wanted to see what everyone thinks the type/place of impact was first. Thanks for playing!


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

I ain't scared, I'll go first. He shot it right in the liver.


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## SureShot (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm going to guess high lung shot.


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## Kdub (Sep 6, 2010)

I would guess his front leg was impacted due to his ability the keep up with the group of deer. They run better when they have both rear legs pushing. Possibly clipped a lung.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm going to guess at a high angling shot that impacted about the last rib and angled forward striking the top of the off-side shoulder blade. Deer is dead within 250-300 yards. Bullet either never exited or made a pinhole explaining the only good amounts of blood to be where the deer paused for a moment.----------SS


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## sdchargers (Aug 29, 2011)

Bright red blood = lung shot, dark red blood = liver shot, black or geenish blood = gut shot, thin red trail = leg shot


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

You shot him in the butt..... femoral artery?


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

Bright red blood = lung shot, dark red blood = liver shot, black or geenish blood = gut shot, thin red trail = leg shot 

Ditto.
not much of a blood trail, so likely the hit was high. some evidence of blowing tissue - so lungs a good probability. deer went far, so no heart shot nor likely liver, either one would bleed out quickly. so, best guess, high front shoulder.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

You don't mention which leg, front or rear, so I am assuming the front leg was involved. Given the foamy stuff you mention I say the lung was involved. I disagree with any mention of the liver simply because any liver injury is always fatal within a short time and the animal normally staggers or humps or goes down upon impact...never seen one jump with a liver shot. They almost always jump with a lung shot. So, my guess..the deer was hit low in the chest nicking a lung lobe, with bullet carrying on through the body striking the far leg. The deer will die.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

high lung, dead deer in 3.....2......1......


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

High hit on the shoulder but forward of center, just clipped the top of the lung and the bullet exited the right shoulder blade without hitting any other bone either entering or exiting.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

When a buck bucks like you said on impact its a heart shot or close to a heart shot. Gut shot deer hump up and move off like they were kicked in the balls. Gut shot deer also won't keep up with the rest of the deer while a heart or lung shot deer will often keep up or often run faster "death run." 
If the deer was hit in the hindquarter it also won't keep up with the other deer. Their rear legs give it all the driving force. 

My guess is if the buck took a deep breath right before the shot it could have enough oxygen in the brain to run out to 200-300 yards where it will be pilled up.


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## stevedcarlson (Apr 19, 2011)

I would say front of the front shoulder right behind the brisket. Just a guess!


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Based on the evidence presented to the court today, I would say that the diagnosis is a slight case of buck fever. The jury is patiently (not very patiently) awaiting the final piece of evidence... A pic of your son holding his first buck deer.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

The deer was standing up hill from the shooter, not full broadside but not 1/4ing away. The bullet was low traveling on an upward angle to the deer taking out brisket and the right low part of the shoulder.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

Or it was good shot and the deer was just and adrenalin junkie hyped up on some peyote and didn't know it should have layed down and died in the same spot.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

cklspencer said:


> Or it was good shot and the deer was just and adrenalin junkie hyped up on some peyote and didn't know it should have layed down and died in the same spot.


Now yer talkin'! :mrgreen:


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

Ya, I would have to say high lung shot, probably just nicked the lung, that would explain the foam I would think. I hope you find the buck.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I am going to say that you found the buck lying dead. He had a broken front leg. Then the bullet deflected off of the front leg and stitched a small hole in brisket causing enough trauma in the brisket causing the lungs to be inopperable. Based on the adrenaline that the buck had in him he made it a little ways before realizing that his pipes weren't working.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Lung shot. Maybe a little low. 
The buck is dead and you got a great pic of your kidd holding his first buck. Now let's see it.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

i have typically found that a low chest shot bleeds more quickly and profusely than a high chest shot. cavity filling with blood leaks out the bottom fast but if high, has more capacity to fill... but in the end, blood everywhere. i agree - time to show the goods. cause all possibilities at this point have been stated. give it up.


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## Watcher (Dec 31, 2008)

Based on the description of the hit it went through the body and damaged the far shoulder.

200 yards and going says the lungs weren't taken out.

Spotty blood trail says a pretty high hit.

Some of the dark blook says tissue damage.

The white foam has no red in it and is the puzzler for me - saliva.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

I am starting to think that all of this drama is because Huge has one of those... *WTF?* endings to this story.


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## Fishracer (Mar 2, 2009)

The only time ive seen white foam or bubbles in large amounts is when shot in the neck, but they usually dont go far and it normally doesnt effect the front legs.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

this better not turn into, "Which big game rifle leaves the best blood trail?"


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I gotta say that this is one of the funnest posts that's been on here for a while, but come on huge.....the gig's up, let us in on the details man!---------SS


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Springville Shooter said:


> I gotta say that this is one of the funnest posts that's been on here for a while, but come on huge.....the gig's up, let us in on the details man!---------SS


HERE HERE!!!!!! Lets have it!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> this better not turn into, "Which big game rifle leaves the best blood trail?"


I was thinking the same thing.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

stevedcarlson said:


> I would say front of the front shoulder right behind the brisket. Just a guess!


+1


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

We are clearly dealing with a lot of very experienced fellars. The majority vote has it correct as far as I can tell, however, unfortunately, all of the picture evidence available for the court has already been provided. Maybe I was not very clear as a few were off a little bit possibly due to my unclear presentation of the evidence, it was a downhill shot and was limping the FRONT right leg, I failed to mention front vs rear as BP asked. 
Shot happened at 6:22 as I am very careful to let as much time as possible pass, keep in mind that it is pitch black at 7. Tracking is my favorite part, so I really have to focus on waiting long enough. I thought I was very prepared for any scenario with three flashlights, all of which were crappy. After 30 minutes we went to where it was when shot and could not cut a track at all and tracked for 200 yards-this took 30 minutes to get that far, so it has now been an hour and pitch black. So, we don't find a drop Friday night. We are back at it first thing and still don't find a drop for about an hour of looking, but know that there has to be blood based on the buck up response and how badly it was limping, but left me thinking it was maybe only a knee shot?? As you can see from pics, snow was spotty helping us greatly in keeping the chase going for a time, but ended up being what killed the trail as it was such a warm day on Saturday and was melting erasing all of the evidence. We tracked for no less than a mile with similar to what you have seen, spotty trail and then a big puddle with no less than a 1/2 c of blood; after about 10 of these we kept looking just 50' ahead thinking for sure he was done and then losing the trail looking too far ahead. So, we then go back to last piece of tape and have to fan out in circles and spot it after a 50' of no trail at all. 
Then, we get to the north facing slope where there is fairly solid 2" of snow, now melting, and all of a sudden it is clear that there is a coyote on the trail. Mind you how long it takes to track a mile a spot every two feet....it has now been about 5 hours. Right before he hits the snow his trail is all over the place in a circle basically until we finally see what are brown spots in the melting snow. This is the end of the story. We see ravens circling way up high, but never landing and even hear a magpie, but don't ever see it, so those were of no help. 
Of course, I am second guessing myself all weekend as to "if just"... We were all physically exhausted with very tired back from crawling on knees for quite some distance (with rifle, backpack, etc all while wearing winter bibs, hiking down climbing back and dropping about 600' of elevation, circling around, etc, etc.
I felt really bad that the nephew was so excited at first and even called his mom, at home, and dad, lower down the mountain, and whooping with his two buddies there with us all to leave the mountain empty handed on Saturday, but felt good in that we made a huge effort to find it. Hopefully this does not turn into a blaming game. I think it did somehow go just over left shoulder and shatter the right shoulder with a clear pass through up high just nicking the upper tip of the lung. 
Moral of the story is one that we all know too well, nothing, including high quality bullet, the fastest-flattest-largest-baddest bullet makes up for poor shot placement. We will get him out a lot more next year and shoot some more. I insisted on him getting a really stable rest, which he had, but still somehow most likely flinched just a little high. 
Thanks for playing!


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## bloodtrail (Sep 20, 2007)

Not the ending any of us were looking for! Sorry to hear that it didn't work out.

It can happen to any of us. Tell him to keep his head up and keep practicing for next year.

No blame here. I do get upset when people call off the search after an hour or two. 

Last year my brother shot a cow at 3C's East of Heber. It is a CWMU. We tracked this cow hard for over 5 hours just to have to guide tell us that we had to leave since he was convinced that we would not find it. We left a perfectly good blood trail that we could not follow without tresspassing. I am still pissed that he made us leave. I think he just wanted to go home for the afternoon!


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Huge, I hit a cow elk this year and almost punched my tag after looking for three days for her. Spots were up to 80 yards apart and I was thankful for the trail she was on and the other animals that she was running with because they would stop with her (blood pools) and then keep moving after a bit. I walked at least 15 miles in nasty, deep, dark crap often times on my hands and knees and my bow left back at camp. The fourth morning I went to retrieve my camera from this area and get ready for the muzzy deer. She had been on that camera that morning with a streak mark right where I had hit her. I hit a little high and back in the "dead zone" where there are no vitals. I thought she would have filled up with blood and I would have found her dead but there she was. Another hunter in our groups saw her that evening confirming a pass through shot and according to him she ran and even called with the other cows and calves. You just sometimes do not know what happens after the shot but as far as my hunt was concerned, it was over. That night, out of my treestand, I took a big cow and took extra time on my shot placement and allowed her plenty of time to expire. You learn from these instances as much as we'd all like to avoid them completely. So, it was probably a very good experience for that younger hunter and you set a great example!


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Too bad. I sure would like to try to run my dogs on a trail like this. My male has a sibling that is working for a big game recovery service in Alaska. If somebody reads this and needs help on a weekend in Northern Utah, keep me in mind. I don't know how the dogs would do, but I do know they like to follow blood.

http://www.akgamesearch.org/index.html


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Sorry about the news Huge, help him ease the pain so he can chin up and try again next year.---------SS


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## Watcher (Dec 31, 2008)

It's been said before: anyone who hunts long enough will come face to face with this experience. But ... it still sucks!

I'm going to start a new thread on "perfect practice" in the archery section.


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