# Baiting for big game



## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Guys,
I am usually the one on the other end of the computer who says, "Dude...look it up" when questions like, "Is it legal to bait big game in Utah?" comes up. This question has come to me, and I know it's legal, but I can't find ANYTHING in the proc that says so. In fact, I can't hardly see any rules in the proc anymore.

What am I doing wrong?


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

This is funny. 18 views, and no comments. I guess I'm not alone when I think, "Dude, look it up!"

Still looking...


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It doesn't say it's illegal.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

you can. injoy


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Phew...found it. It says nothing about it being illegal. Here's the law on it.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/R657-05.php


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Ah, the power of marketing...

10 years ago, a trail cam was a rare sight and almost nobody baited. This year, I'm thinking we maybe need an environmental impact study or something. Crying out loud, guys...I'm seeing salt and deer cane everywhere and at least one trail cam at every watering hole.

How did anybody kill anything before these wonderful products became easily available? :roll:


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Put out your anise oil anywhere you want.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

baiting for big game is weak. sorry but it is


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I remember when baiting was the hay stack by the barn :V|:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Finn,
It sounds like you need to get farther from the road. It really is funny if you think about it; one of the most repeated comments on here it to do just that, yet if you are seeing people's cameras everywhere you must be way too close because no one in Utah gets off of the road. It can't be both ways fellas.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

It is interesting, to say the least. I was surprised that there was NOTHING written to address this. In fact, in my search for answers, I heard that Utah is the only western US state that allows it.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> Ah, the power of marketing...
> 
> 10 years ago, a trail cam was a rare sight and almost nobody baited. This year, I'm thinking we maybe need an environmental impact study or something. Crying out loud, guys...I'm seeing salt and deer cane everywhere and at least one trail cam at every watering hole.
> 
> How did anybody kill anything before these wonderful products became easily available? :roll:


We used natural baits. Water, choke points to clover and alfalfa fields, etc. I can see the controversy on baiting Finn, but what have you got against trail cameras? In my experience, most are responsible about retrieving their equipment, and really, it doesn't give that much of an advantage to the hunter. I don't need a trail camera to decide whether a water hole is being used, or a wallow is getting torn up. All it really benefits is, "are there any quality animals?" Personally, I just enjoy the close pics.

Just trying to understand your comment Finn. Is your point that some have been suckered by marketing tactics, when historically none of these things were available, and as such are unnecessary today? Or are you implying laziness?


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

While legal, I personally feel that baiting is chickencrap (I censored myself) and is also for kittycats (censored again). I'm also one of those guys that thinks trailcam's are Bull manure (Wow, I'm really censoring myself today). Get out and scout. Quit being so lazy. 

Before I get blasted for baiting when I go fishing... I don't fish. (I put this disclaimer on here, as I've been hit with it before.)


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I think Washington State also allows baiting for big game species....but don't quote me on that.
however, I saw this on that page and I swear it is new this year.


> R657-5-15. Party Hunting and Use of Dogs.
> (1) A person may not take big game for another person, except as provided in Section 23-19-1 and Rule R657-12.
> (2) A person may not use the aid of a dog to take, chase, harm or harass big game. *The use of one blood-trailing dog controlled by leash during lawful hunting hours within 72 hours of shooting a big game animal is allowed to track wounded animals and aid in recovery.*


When I got my beagle this past winter I asked a fishcop about this and he said you couldn't....anybody know more?


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> I think Washington State also allows baiting for big game species....but don't quote me on that.
> however, I saw this on that page and I swear it is new this year.
> 
> 
> ...


It was just implemented this year and is now legal. I think it is a great thing if it leads to a better rate of recovery when it comes to wounded animals. I don't know why they didn't allow it before?


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

The question in our group was always..........
It's legal..........but is it ethical?
Most did apples and licks anyway.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

ducknhunter1096, maybe I'm doing it wrong.....so please set me straight on this. I have put up trail cams this year for my LE elk hunt and it is 10 times more work hiking down into the holes I've put my cams in (multiple locations) to retrieve the pics once a week than it is to drive in my truck along the roads and use my window mounted spotting scope to glass stuff way off in the distance.

So help me out here....if using trail cams is considered "lazy" then please fill me in because I am clearly doing it wrong.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

I've always wondered if those who don't approve of trail cameras are the ones who either can't, or won't invest in them, or are afraid that theirs will be the one that gets stolen or damaged. They are a tool. And they are work. They won't shoot your deer or elk for you.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I still have no idea how baiting is legal for big game......you'd think if chumming is illegal for fishing and baiting for waterfowl, than how is it legal to take up some specialized powder or lick to bait deer and elk? especially baiting for animals that are struggling, like our deer herds. Not judging people and their methods but just find it kinda surprising it's legal.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

utahgolf said:


> I still have no idea how baiting is legal for big game......you'd think if chumming is illegal for fishing and baiting for waterfowl, than how is it legal to take up some specialized powder or lick to bait deer and elk? especially baiting for animals that are struggling, like our deer herds. Not judging people and their methods but just find it kinda surprising it's legal.


I think it's because Utah hunters are not killing much big game over bait. Either we suck at it or there is too much pressure to keep animals coming into a baited spot consistantly.

I remember seeing a spot on the Wasatch Front a few years ago that was loaded with deercane. On the opener there was 20 hunters there and not a deer in sight.

We could outlaw it based on principle if people felt so inclined but the reality is we don't kill a lot of big game over bait.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Baiting is much more effective with Whitetail. On private lands. Where you can control hunting pressure. Mule deer on public lands - a whole different story all together.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

yeah, I know it's tougher here and not like back east with whitetails, especially when there's free ranging cattle everywhere in mountains and tons of pressure. but there's a guy on here who posted up a couple videos from a ground blind, and showed how effective these mulies were at coming into his powdered bait. Just don't see much difference between throwing fist fulls of corn into a late season duck hole or up at strawberry fishing and throwing out specialized bait powder in mountains or licks for deer and elk.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Finnegan said:


> How did anybody kill anything before these wonderful products became easily available? :roll:


Because we had 10X more deer.

And yes you need to get off the road. (this became rule about 1996) But not too far because when hiking away from a road eventually you will be getting closer to a different road. :roll: Although not scientifically proven deer prefer habitat at least 3 miles from the nearest road. :roll:

Baiting works best when conducted year round on private grounds.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> Just don't see much difference between throwing fist fulls of corn into a late season duck hole or up at strawberry fishing


Using corn to chum fish is illegal because the fish can't digest the corn and it kills them.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

There is NOTHING wrong with cameras, salt, "bait", etc...In fact I see these as a means that gets hunters more involved and working harder at their hunt than before (like Bullsnot). These items are not causing harm to the animals. The only "problem" is you are not hunting like Finn and Duckhunter1096 wants you to hunt, so now they see a problem. 

We all have our idea of what the perfect hunting scenario should be and anyone that doesn't hunt that same way is somehow doing it wrong. 

It takes a ton of work, money, effort for me to hunt with my horses. Therefore anyone who doesn't hunt with horses is lazy...how stupid is that?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

If I hunt with YOUR horses does that make me lazy?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

No Tex it makes you ignorant for not riding a mule instead.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

If ya got a license to harvest one deer you should be able to harvest it any way you want... and for that matter any time you want. I find it real hard to differentiate between fair from un-fair in these cases. What, trickin the deer into coming in to feed on some grain you put out then blasting the hell out of him with your 30-06 is not OK, but spotting him out there a couple hundred yards chompin away on some buck brush and then blasting the hell out of him with your 30-06 is OK?? Bottom line, the deer is harvested, your freezer is full, your ego is pumped, your wallet is empty!


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## Kdub (Sep 6, 2010)

Baiting is just not effective. It may work June/july and provide trail cam pics, but once opening morning comes all bets are off. Deer are going to be looking for cover, not salt licks.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

bullsnot said:


> ducknhunter1096, maybe I'm doing it wrong.....so please set me straight on this. I have put up trail cams this year for my LE elk hunt and it is 10 times more work hiking down into the holes I've put my cams in (multiple locations) to retrieve the pics once a week than it is to drive in my truck along the roads and use my window mounted spotting scope to glass stuff way off in the distance.
> 
> So help me out here....if using trail cams is considered "lazy" then please fill me in because I am clearly doing it wrong.


+1

What most don't understand is that the trail cams are usually in addition to all the other scouting that is done. It is just another tool in the scouting belt.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

duckhunter1096 said:


> While legal, I personally feel that baiting is chickencrap (I censored myself) and is also for kittycats (censored again). I'm also one of those guys that thinks trailcam's are Bull manure (Wow, I'm really censoring myself today). Get out and scout. Quit being so lazy.
> 
> Before I get blasted for baiting when I go fishing... I don't fish. (I put this disclaimer on here, as I've been hit with it before.)


Uhmmmm......because sitting on a four wheeler, in your truck, car, or golf cart, or having enough money you don't have to work in order to support the hunting "habit" is common and isn't lazy? I'll just sit here and eat my chicken nuggets while standing in my cow pie...now pass the worms, please. Meow!
:O•-:



bullsnot said:


> So help me out here....if using trail cams is considered "lazy" then please fill me in because I am clearly doing it wrong.


I bust my butt every year in order to put up and take down cameras and only a couple of those sites are baited with anything because they are already established. Very rarely do I end up with photos of people although cattle this time of year do ruin some of the areas that were good prior. Also, while pressure changes animal behavior during the hunt, cameras enable us to see what even the most diligent "scout in person champ" will never see and in multiple locations and it doesn't matter how many miles he has on his boots. AND, not only is it expensive to buy the cameras, but there is in fact a ton of work involved once you have and are using them.

Even without a tag, I love seeing the animals I glass with the binos up close when they are caught by a trail cam.....its a sport in and of itself if you ask me.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Putting up salt licks and trail cameras this year has taken a ridiculous amount of time and energy but seeing all the pictures after a 3 mile hike in makes it all worth it. We get pictures of a lot of the same deer we've seen through the binos or scope, as well as some that make us just want to look that much harder. I have a hard enough time dragging my own weight up and down a mountain, much more so when I have a 20 lb. salt block in my pack. I've worked much harder to place and check trail cameras as a PART of my scouting than I ever did before. Just my .02


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

+ 1 to all that promote all legal hunting!!!!!!!! :^8^: To all the "cannibals and useful idiots!"Google it and learn.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Kwalk3 said:


> Putting up salt licks and trail cameras this year has taken a ridiculous amount of time and energy but seeing all the pictures after a 3 mile hike in makes it all worth it. We get pictures of a lot of the same deer we've seen through the binos or scope, as well as some that make us just want to look that much harder. I have a hard enough time dragging my own weight up and down a mountain, much more so when I have a 20 lb. salt block in my pack. I've worked much harder to place and check trail cameras as a PART of my scouting than I ever did before. Just my .02


Great post!


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## wapiti67 (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm too poor to buy a trailcam or baits, salt and the like...so, I'll just stick with calling them in to 20 yards nd letting the air out...


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> duckhunter1096 said:
> 
> 
> > While legal, I personally feel that baiting is chickencrap (I censored myself) and is also for kittycats (censored again). I'm also one of those guys that thinks trailcam's are Bull manure (Wow, I'm really censoring myself today). Get out and scout. Quit being so lazy.
> ...


This is exactly the type of post I expected to get from mine. They are called OPINIONS, people... I have mine, you have yours. But for the record KLBZDAD... No wheelers involved for me. Definitely not an issue of too much money either... I'm just as broke as the next guy. I do have a pack mule though... Myself.

I feel baiting is chicken crap... Period. Just my opinion. And my initial post was about how people who use cameras call that "Scouting". Obviously I struck a nerve or two with my OPINION... Relax fella's... I'm not God, and I'm not going to strike you down for the tactics you choose to employ.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

"Baiting for big game is weak."
"I can see the controversy on baiting."
"Baiting is chickencrap." 
"It's legal.......but is it ethical?"
"I still have no idea how baiting is legal for big game."

We go to great lengths, and even praise others that take advantage of or overcome the other senses of big game with calls, silent clothing, hush boot covers, (hearing), decoys, binoculars, camo clothing, (sight), cover scents, body wash, rubber boots, estrous scents, (smell), but to attempt to take advantage of or overcome the sense of taste is "weak", "chickencrap", a "controversy", "_un_ethical"? Hmmm!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> If I hunt with YOUR horses does that make me lazy?


That makes you smart!...however, you're not smart, you went out and bought your own horses when you had mine for free.


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

Shane, can I user your horses for free????? Sept 1-14, Boulder!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

ut1031 said:


> Shane, can I user your horses for free????? Sept 1-14, Boulder!


Maybe...who is this? Send me a PM.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

elkfromabove said:


> "Baiting for big game is weak."
> "I can see the controversy on baiting."
> "Baiting is chickencrap."
> "It's legal.......but is it ethical?"
> ...


Well said.......just wait and see what people think when I figure out this Remote Animal Hypnosis Modulator that I have been working on. I'll be hunting from the comfort of my own home with a beer in my hand.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I want to be the second to have one of those Muleskinner! Apple beer for me though.........I'm a light weight.

duckhunterthingiewhatever......while they are oppinions, aren't you telling me and others who use cameras that our method of SCOUTING is chicken crap? You also said that baiting was for Kitty Cats, or something to that effect.....isn't that striking folks down for doing what they enjoy and call their best effort at scouting / hunting? 

Just curious....if I were single and wanted to hook up with a fat gal, offering a bigun' all you can eat buffet instead of a salad....is that for bearded clams too? I'm just giving you a hard time by the way....to happy about next weekend to really get worked up. My trail cameras have some impressive photos on them!!!!


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

I'll just shake my head about this discussion. I've seen enough changes through the years that some called chicken crap while others called it revolutionary. If ya'll hunt with anything other than a recurve bow, or open sights on your rifle or perhaps a 4X scope you have exceeded the "ethical hunting standard that was once the norm". Even those "norms" could be argued to be unethical given previous standards.

Different folks have different hunting techniques and standards. People are also always looking for an edge in what they do, be it sports, hobbies, work, life. If it is legal, like it or not, it is accepted by enough people that think it is also ethical to make it legal. Like it or not, hunting will continue to evolve in many different ways and not to everyone's satisfaction or level of comfort with the "acceptable ethics".


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Doc said:


> I'll just shake my head about this discussion. I've seen enough changes through the years that some called chicken crap while others called it revolutionary. If ya'll hunt with anything other than a recurve bow, or open sights on your rifle or perhaps a 4X scope you have exceeded the "ethical hunting standard that was once the norm". Even those "norms" could be argued to be unethical given previous standards.
> 
> Different folks have different hunting techniques and standards. People are also always looking for an edge in what they do, be it sports, hobbies, work, life. If it is legal, like it or not, it is accepted by enough people that think it is also ethical to make it legal. Like it or not, hunting will continue to evolve in many different ways and not to everyone's satisfaction or level of comfort with the "acceptable ethics".


Great post!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I have no problem with peoples hunting methods or scouting...it just literally surprises me the dwr allows baiting for big game and not for other species.... If someone wants to haul a heavy salt lick back in 3-4 miles, than more power to them.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Well said.......just wait and see what people think when I figure out this Remote Animal Hypnosis Modulator that I have been working on. I'll be hunting from the comfort of my own home with a beer in my hand.


That's already possible, but illegal. If the legislature hadn't made it a crime, you could get on line, and remotely kill deer in Texas using your mouse. It's being done in Texas, so does that make it ethical? o-||


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

Fishing lures, worms,powerBAIT for fishing, decoys for baiting in waterfowl, meat scrapes and pastries for baiting in bears. All of it is used to bait game in. DWR allows alot of things to BAIT in critters.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I figure people pay their hard earned money for an any legal weapon/archery/muzzleloader tag to bring home an animal. The tag is paid for. It is theirs. Let them fill that tag however they wish, so long as they fill only the one tag with their chosen weapon and in the area they paid to do it. 

I put out no bait. I use no cameras. I had a tree stand that got used once and only once and never again. I don't begrudge others the opportunity to do those things if that's what they want to do.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

duckhunter1096 said:


> This is exactly the type of post I expected to get from mine. They are called OPINIONS, people... I have mine, you have yours.


I for one am plenty relaxed but saying that scouting with a trail cam is "lazy" and is somehow less work than the other types of "scouting" that you speak off while may be your opinion is simply incorrect. I only aimed to edcuate you on the subject. Have a nice day.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I know a guy who is so chicken chit he uses a fish finder. Then the bastitch baits his hook to get them to bite. 

I have contemplated using grain laced with poison for elk. But I decided not to because it might taint the meat.


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

Iron Bear said:


> I know a guy who is so chicken chit he uses a fish finder. Then the bastitch baits his hook to get them to bite.
> 
> I have contemplated using grain laced with poison for elk. But I decided not to because it might taint the meat.


 :lol:


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Fishrmn said:


> Mr Muleskinner said:
> 
> 
> > Well said.......just wait and see what people think when I figure out this Remote Animal Hypnosis Modulator that I have been working on. I'll be hunting from the comfort of my own home with a beer in my hand.
> ...


Is that a serious question? I live in a world that is fairly black and white, I don't play in grey area for the most part. If it is illegal it is wrong by default in my book. Hunting and killing is two separate things to me as well. Always has been.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Kdub said:


> Baiting is just not effective. It may work June/july and provide trail cam pics, but once opening morning comes all bets are off. Deer are going to be looking for cover, not salt licks.


I know a sheepherder who would COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. He can't keep deer and elk OFF of his salt stations, no matter what time of year it is...I know this for fact, I've seen it.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Duckholla said:


> Kdub said:
> 
> 
> > Baiting is just not effective. It may work June/july and provide trail cam pics, but once opening morning comes all bets are off. Deer are going to be looking for cover, not salt licks.
> ...


Maybe...but if there is a lot of hunting pressure in the area I doubt those deer and elk are pounding those sites during legal hunting hours.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

bullsnot said:


> Duckholla said:
> 
> 
> > Kdub said:
> ...


Sure, if there is a lot of pressure. But he didn't say that, he said opening morning. There are many places on opening morning without excess pressure. Baiting is highly effective, if done correctly. Hell, that's how the majority of those wildlife game manaement units maintain their level of success. They bait the site, and then manage the pressure around it, rotating hunters etc...


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Fair enough Duck but I think the discussion regarding the effectiveness of baiting was regarding the legality of baiting big game in Utah during hunting seasons. I think the argument that its not a very effective way of killing a deer or an elk still holds a lot of water (gotta be during legal shooting hours) due to hunting pressure, unless of course you have an alfalfa field.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

bullsnot said:


> Fair enough Duck but I think the discussion regarding the effectiveness of baiting was regarding the legality of baiting big game in Utah during hunting seasons. I think the argument that its not a very effective way of killing a deer or an elk still holds a lot of water (gotta be during legal shooting hours) due to hunting pressure, unless of course you have an alfalfa field.


Okay. 8)


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Well, the Game Agencies rarely bank on 100% success, so every hunter can not harvest an animal by any means necessary. If it was "shoot one at all costs" with 100% success then we'd have 25,000 mule deer tags statewide. I am not a fan of baiting deer and elk. Can't do it for waterfowl, turkey, doves, etc..., but it is done for big game? Kind of weird, but I won't spend much time loosing sleep over it.

I use trail cams (mostly on private land) and really enjoy them. On the other hand, I don't enjoy seeing trail cams on many wallows or having my photo taken in the wilderness on public lands. Kind of takes away from the experience I look for in the mtns. Contradictions abound. I guess I want to use trail cams, but only me-- none of you guys.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Baiting with salt has been said already to be ineffective after they shed velvet. I totally agree its a complete waste of time. I have used cameras and salt and never see anything after they shed. 

I have a friend that thinks it is the end all only way to hunt. Hes always packing that crap in. He has yet to kill a deer off any of those blocks and its going on 8 years since hes started doing it. He also hasn't killed an elk off it either.
I would dare say he has spent hundreds of dollars on that crap and has spent thousands of bucks in fuel and time off work packing it in all for nada.

I find trail cameras work best over water, migration routs, funnels, and feeding areas. I also find i can see most deer in areas i hunt on hikes. So the cameras usually stay home. I can get video of them and dont need to haul in a bunch of crap that will more than likley get stolen anyways.


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

Packout said:


> Well, the Game Agencies rarely bank on 100% success, so every hunter can not harvest an animal by any means necessary. If it was "shoot one at all costs" with 100% success then we'd have 25,000 mule deer tags statewide. I am not a fan of baiting deer and elk. Can't do it for waterfowl, turkey, doves, etc..., but it is done for big game? Kind of weird, but I won't spend much time loosing sleep over it.
> 
> I use trail cams (mostly on private land) and really enjoy them. On the other hand, I don't enjoy seeing trail cams on many wallows or having my photo taken in the wilderness on public lands. Kind of takes away from the experience I look for in the mtns. Contradictions abound. I guess I want to use trail cams, but only me-- none of you guys.


So when you are using decoys for waterfowl, doves and turkeys, you don't believe that is baiting them in? Bait comes in many forms. When a vice unit uses female cops dressed like ho's to lure in Johns, isn't that using bait?


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

richardjb said:


> Packout said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the Game Agencies rarely bank on 100% success, so every hunter can not harvest an animal by any means necessary. If it was "shoot one at all costs" with 100% success then we'd have 25,000 mule deer tags statewide. I am not a fan of baiting deer and elk. Can't do it for waterfowl, turkey, doves, etc..., but it is done for big game? Kind of weird, but I won't spend much time loosing sleep over it.
> ...


 i needed a good sarcastic comment tonight. thanks!


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

Truth speaks volumes!


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