# If you were to get a handgun....



## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

So I've got some revolvers but wanting to start messing with some other handguns. I'm looking at several calibers and brands and kind of have the deer in the headlights look. 

I want something that both the wife and I can shoot, use for self defense, use for plinking, and have a decent chance at stopping any critters with teeth that may get too close for comfort. In other words I want my cake and eat it too. 9mm, .40, .45??

Seriously though I have been looking at a big range in prices. I looked at the Hi Points and the reviews I read said they are ugly but function just fine. Of course there are the Taurus's, the Ruger's, and Glocks of the world. I know the Glocks have no safety, not sure how concerned I am about that. 

Any tips??


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## fire4j15 (Nov 13, 2010)

Stay away from the Hi-points. You definitely get what you pay for with them. My favorite for critters with teeth in those calibers is the kimber .45 grand raptor with 5" barrel. Good power and the wife can shoot it also.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Please, for your own safety and enjoyment, do NOT get a hi point. unless you only have 100 bucks to spend on a brand new gun and dont care anything about it, then go for it. if it were me, I would get another Springfield XD-9 in the "Service" size. IMO you cant get a better pistol for the money. or of course a good 1911. either will serve you well.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Glocks don't have an external safety lever, but they do have a safety...3 actually. Accidents can still happen though, just ask Plaxico Burress. The Springfield XD takes things a step further by adding a grip safety. Ironically, the nice thing about guns like the Glock and the XD (among others) is the fact that they don't don't have a lever to forget to switch off in the heat of the moment. I own some XD pistols myself, and have no complaints. The M&P line from Smith and Wesson is also worth looking at.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Find a good gunshop, preferably one with a range, go handle a bunch of them, and shoot the ones you really like. Give Discount Guns in Provo a try. I'm not sure if their range is up and running yet. They are just east of the tire shop by Sportsmens Warehouse in Provo.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

The hard part of your search will be finding something that your wife will enjoy shooting. I would start with that. If she's not happy shooting the thing then you will have a wife that won't want to go. If she hasn't shot a weapon before then you may want to borrow a .22 and let her get used to the whole idea of having a small explosion going off in her hands. Work her way up to some of the other calibers, .380, .38, .357, 9mm, .40, .45 and so on. I'm not going to tell anybody anything new here but............ If she ain't happy , you ain't happy. Good luck with your search. I ended up with a Colt Gov. .380 for my wife. Let us know what you both get. The perfect solution is not one gun for both but two for the both of you.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

bullsnot said:


> So I've got some revolvers but wanting to start messing with some other handguns. I know the Glocks have no safety, not sure how concerned I am about that.


How long have you owned these defective firearms?? How have you dared to load, carry or shoot a firearm that doesn't have a safety?? Oh wait, everybody who has owned or shot a revolver has dealt with a firearm that doesn't have a safety. If you have somehow managed to survive owning a revolver, you'll probably survive owning another firearm that doesn't have a safety.  

Safeties give you a false sense of security. I personally never use them if I don't have to. Some weapons actually engage a safety whenever they are ****ed or loaded. They just get in the way. *Don't point any firearm in the direction of, or at, anything that you don't want to kill, maim, or destroy. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you are on target, and ready to fire. Period*

Fishrmn


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ditto on the main points made here. Skip the HiPoint's (had one, sold it), XD's are great firearms, I love my XD40 Subcompact. Start with a .22 for your wife.

-DallanC


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks a bunch fellas!!!

I have a .22 and a .357 revolver and the wife shoots both of them better than I do. I think I'll take her to a range, we'll shoot a few guns, end up buying two of em. I'll stay away from the Hi Points and look hard at the guns you guys recommended. 

You guys rock!!


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

If she enjoys the 357, then a 45 or 40sw won't be a problem for her.
I would really hate to be staring at a pissed of bear with only a 9mm.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

yo buddy


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

and


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## goonsquad (Sep 15, 2010)

I have a 1911 which I love to shoot, I never go backpacking with it though. I either take the 9mm with +P+ ammo or the .357 with +P. 
I love my XD subcompact and it carries twice as many rounds as the 1911 and is still lighter. I know the whole 9mm vs 45 argument and I don't care, I like knowing I have twice as many rounds at a fingers distance. I do not believe that the 45 is so vastly superior that having half as many rounds in a panic situation is worth the lessened error range. 
I would recommend the XDM because of the multiple grips it has, it will make fitting your wifes hand easier.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

Kimber 1911


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Any handgun from my hometown, Geneseo Illinois.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

*Oh wait, everybody who has owned or shot a revolver has dealt with a firearm that doesn't have a safety. *

I've never heard of a revolver go KABOOM. I know personally of a few glocks that have gone KABOOM. I'll stick with my (steel) revolvers if I want a firearm without a safety.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

lol chet.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

> I know the whole 9mm vs 45 argument and I don't care, I like knowing I have twice as many rounds at a fingers distance.


The answer to the 9mm vs 45 argument is the .40 S&W - it was intended to bridge the gap and give attributes of both. It uses the 9mm frame size with its generally smaller grip and higher capacity, but puts out power closer to the .45 than 9mm. It generally has 87% of the mag capacity of the 9mm and 93% of the stopping power (KE) of the .45. That is why it is the cop's caliber of choice with around 3/4 of all LE agencies using .40 S&W (most of those Glocks). If 2+ solid hits with a .40 and good JHP won't do it, then it seems unlikely that using a .45 would have made the difference.

IMO if you want to "_have a decent chance at stopping any critters with teeth that may get too close for comfort._" Then I would go with the bigger .40 or .45 rounds that can shoot bullets of 180 to 230 grains - and do so at normal pressure - rather than light 9mm bullets that rely on +Pressure to make their light bullets effective. You want adequate penetration and heavier bullets deliver that more reliably.



> I know personally of a few glocks that have gone KABOOM. I'll stick with my (steel) revolvers if I want a firearm without a safety.


 Of course one can cruise the internet and find pictures of blown up revolvers and I know _personally_ of a couple of (steel) revolvers that have gone KABOOM (but no Glocks oddly enough). The CAS shooters have really made that number go up as well. The number of blown-up Vaqueros and Colt SAA clones is amazing - enough so that Speer has specific CAS loading instructions and warnings in their new manuals. Any gun can blow up if the right combination for a pressure excursion exists.

It isn't the _plastic_ that is at issue with Glocks etc. In the case of the Glock, the polygonal rifling isn't lead bullet friendly as the shallow rifling builds lead up quickly leading to over-pressure events. The polygonal rifling has some benefits, but isn't intended for lead bullets. In addition, in order to get an extremely high degree of feeding reliability, the Glock, especially in .40 has a generous chamber that is partially unsupported. They are not alone in this either. This was especially so in Gen 1 & 2 models, and not so much in Gen 3 (light rail) and newer versions. So there was a danger of the web of the case letting go in multiple-reloaded cases. Glock is fairly serious when they say "Factory Ammo Only" in their STEEL barrels and slides.

If the whole Glock Kaboom thing was that big of a deal, 65% of LE agencies, including Federal agencies like the FBI, wouldn't be issuing G22 & 23s. They run their Glocks thru very rigorous testing before adoption and if the whole kaboom thing (Glocks only of course) were such a danger, they wouldn't have adopted the Glock. Anytime you have a particular gun that has sold in the millions and is so widepread in use, you run a greater statistical risk of "knowing a few guns that have gone Kaboom".

Of course if anyone is that nervous about buying a Glock, there are similar Glock-inspired polymer striker-fired guns out there like the XD and S&W M&P. The XD has a fully-supported chamber and conventional rifling, so it is more reloader-friendly. It also has a better feel. The XD(M) match version is especially nice and holds a whopping 16+1 rounds of .40 S&W in a grip that has interchangeable backstraps that can be quickly changed to fit your or your wife's hand.

Glock Safeties: The Glock actually has more safeties built in than a revolver:
The Glock "Safe Action" consists of an external integrated trigger safety and two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety and a drop safety. The external safety is a small inner lever contained in the trigger. Pressing the lever activates the trigger bar and sheet metal connector. The firing pin safety is a solid hardened steel pin that, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel (disabling the firing pin in its longitudinal axis). It is pushed upward to release the firing pin for firing only when the trigger is actuated and the safety is pushed up through the backward movement of the trigger bar. The drop safety guides the trigger bar in a ramp that is released only when direct rearward pressure is applied to the trigger. The three safety mechanisms are automatically disengaged one after the other when the trigger is squeezed, and are automatically reactivated when the trigger is released. This passive safety system omits the manipulation of traditional on-off levers, hammers or other external safeties as found in many other handgun designs.

As mentioned, the XD system differs only slightly, and has an external grip safety, ala 1911, as well. The S&W M&P has a magazine safety. You can only fire the gun when a mag is inserted. LE models of this gun omit this controversial feature.

XD/M&P/GLOCK vs the 1911.
I absolutely love to shoot the 1911. However, to be realistic you only get an entry-level 1911 for the price of the above. And the 1911 is an old design that takes a lot of small hand-fitted parts that need to function well. It was intended to be manufactured in a different era, when skilled Journeymen labor was cheap and demand smaller. The newer guns are very simple, with very few parts that can be made very quickly on automated machinery with a minimum of skilled labor. Therefore not only is the price point cheaper, but the gun is simpler with a whole lot less parts, and generally more reliable out of the box. In addition, all of the above have Melonite/Tennifer finishes that exceed the rust resistance of Stainless steel. The entry level 1911s are only blued or phosphated and don't come close to resisting rust like the 3 mentioned. Of course the polymer frame doesn't rust - and surprisingly, the flex inherent offers an extended frame life. You need to be picky with 1911 mags, but factory mags for the other 3 seem to all be really reliable. Therefore, I think you get more out of the box reliability and longevity with the XD/M&P/Glock than with an entry-level 1911 for the same price.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I have a BRAND NEW Sig P-238 that has been sitting in my safe for months now that has never been fired. It is chambered in 380 ACP if you are interested. It would be perfect for the wife and has night sights for carry, and I even have a box of ammo to go with it!

Here are the specs:
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCa ... oductid=26


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Lots of great info Frisco. Thanks for posting.

I should mention the reason why I brought up the "safety" on the Glock was more of a "one less step to shoot" perspective more than anything. The extra info is great though!


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

XDM in 9 mm would do what you are suggesting in grand style. 

If you want a little more punch the 45 Auto is a good choice. 

I have an XD 45 and really like it. 

About bears: Have you ever seen a bear in Utah? Are you a hunter who goes into bear country?
I think a can of bear spray may be the best bet anyway. If you really want to kill a bear a 44 mag would be my choice of handgun. Cats are no worry, if you ever see one just bark like a dog as loud as you can and keep it up. 

I would look for safety and reliability. XDM yeah.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I have seen very few guns ever go KABOOM with someone putting their finger on the trigger, don't worry so much about the "saftey" as where you put your fingers. 

The other guys give good advice on the guns, I own and like both the XD and Glocks.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

James yes I'm familiar with bears and the subject of protecting oneself against predators in Utah has been discussed A LOT on these forums. The perspective I have is I'm wanting to get a handgun that will perform the best in a variety of situations. That is not to imply that what ever I end up with will be the best defense against a bear, cougar, or even a wolf one day. There are many other things that go into protecting oneself while in the outdoors and 99% of them are prevention and there are a variety of things a person can do if attacked or in a close quarter situation that don't involve a firearm, granted. And yes encounters are extremely rare to begin with although I've had a few. I do appreciate the input though.

The XD and XDM are quickly rising to the top of my list!! Thanks again fellas.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

12 Volt would tell you 10mm Glock, that's plenty of black bear medicine. I'm partial to a Kimber .45, but IMO, for the money an XD is about the best value out there.


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

I chose Sig Sauer and have been very happy with it. I have shot and liked Beretta, Springfield, Ruger, Browning, and Taurus. I have shot and did not care for S & W (exept for the M & P), Glock, hi-point, Lorcin, and Kel-tek.

Caliber choice is personal. I shoot a 9mm. It's a handgun, not a bear stopper (do you really think any auto pistol caliber is remotely adequate for bears?!?!???). Want more power? Get a rifle or a shotgun. 

I don't worry about bears. But, I don't know of any two-legged predators that are not afraid of a 9mm (or should be).


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Sigs are awesome. I own several, and the handgun I use everyday for work is a Sig. I grew up shooting a variety of handguns, and became VERY familiar with the Beretta M9, but Sig Sauer pistols just come natural to me, especially the P226 and P229. They can be on the large and heavy side for a lot of shooters, but they also have the new E2 models out now that have a smaller grip. Sigs don't come cheap, but I'd part ways with a lot of other guns before dipping into my collection of Sigs or 1911s.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have the XD in 3" 9mm; when I bought it there were no .40 S&W available, so there was no choice to be made. NHS was nice enough to let us go out one day to shoot his 3" .40; it honestly shook the fillings in my teeth. In retrospect, as much as I shoot I would prefer the .40. Good luck!


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Comparing apples to apples (Hornady Critical Defense) the 40 SW generates more KE at the muzzle than the 45 ACP
45 ACP 185 gr. 1000 FPS 411 FLbs.
40 SW 165gr. 1175 FPS 506 FLbs.


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## Narient (Jan 9, 2011)

I have a theory behind that, campfire, & perhaps somebody with more knowledge/experience than I can pipe up and discount or confirm it. 

With my meager experience with each round, I'm of the impression than the .40 will pass through more than the .45 using a target of similar mass. To me, that can only point out that the .40 may have more energy, but much more of it is lost as the bullet passes through the target, whereas if the .45 does NOT pass through, all of the energy is transferred to the target, causing more perceived damage.

So, what say you? Am I talkin out my hind end wouldn't be the first time  ) or is there some merit to my reasoning?


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Narient said:


> I have a theory behind that, campfire, & perhaps somebody with more knowledge/experience than I can pipe up and discount or confirm it.
> 
> With my meager experience with each round, I'm of the impression than the .40 will pass through more than the .45 using a target of similar mass. To me, that can only point out that the .40 may have more energy, but much more of it is lost as the bullet passes through the target, whereas if the .45 does NOT pass through, all of the energy is transferred to the target, causing more perceived damage.
> 
> So, what say you? Am I talkin out my hind end wouldn't be the first time  ) or is there some merit to my reasoning?


I can't fault your thinking. The 357 Mag. has more KE than either round at 624 fLbs for a 125 gr. bullet at 1500 FPS. In handgun rounds big slow bullets seem to have less penetration (This is sometimes better for defense uses in urban environments) while smaller fast bullets penetrate better (like the 357 Mag.). Velocity seems to be the most important factor in figuring the KE of a round as well. But in terms of recoil I suspect that the KE of the round is a pretty good indicator of recoil. There seems to be varied opinions but a general consensus that Ke is a pretty good indication of stopping power as well. This suggests that a 40 SW should have more recoil and more stopping power than the 45 ACP.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

man I love a thread about calibers. you all know that the .45 is sub sonic @ 950 ft/s. The .45 was built as a people killer, it has no effect on thick skined animals. so the real question is, what do you mean by protection against toothy animals. there is and always will be discussion of the min caliber needed for protection against a bear, and your wife will not want to shoot that size of gun. so like stated before, pick one for her and a can a bear spray for your outdoor adventures. I'm excited, I just picked up a .357 sig m&p. which has more velocity and energy than the .40 s&w. I put my 2 cents in about the .380 stay away, might as well pick up a .22.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

There are other things to consider than just fire power, too. You mentioned something that can be used for a variety of uses like plinking, self protection, toothy critters, Ect. Fire power both in terms of KE per round and number of rounds carried is at the opposite end of the spectrum to comfort and convenience of carrying. Fire power in terms of KE per round is not consistent with economy either if you are going to use it for plinking. In all honesty the best gun for plinking would be economical and have a mild recoil for shooting a lot of rounds and would not be very well suited for "toothy critters". The best gun for carrying around for personal defense would be small and light and would not be very accurate for plinking and would probably lack the fire power you would want for toothy critters. So I think you are going to have to sacrifice something to get something else or be satisfied with a balance that would not be ideal for any specific purpose. You seem to be interested in a semi-auto. A 9 MM has been mentioned and seems to be a reasonable "balance".


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Addendum: I am a revolver man myself and I have a 357 Mag. that I carry in the outdoors. It has the fire power to make me feel a little more safe in the outdoors but it is not very comfortable or convenient to carry in public and it is not very economical for plinking even with 38 special ammo. I have an ulta-lite 38 special that I carry in my pocket in public but it lacks the fire power of the 357 and it is not accurate or economical enough to take plinking. But I also have a 22 revolver for that. My point is that you mentioned that you have other handguns. You might consider reevaluating them, assessing what they are best suited for and get a gun that is a little better suited for a purpose that your other guns might not be very well suited for.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What a fun subject. But in reallity, the choice of caliber to carry is meaningless. Get a gun you like, can shoot well, and are willing to carry. Kinetic energy comparisons are only meaningful if you are a gun writer and need to create a market for your stories. Everyone knows that in a pistol, bigger is better, unless smaller is faster, then who really cares. I wouldn't want to get shot with anything. My previous advise stands, go to a gunshop, rent a few guns, shoot them, then decide what you like. And if you decide that you want a S&W model 4043, I've got one that I will sell you.


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## Narient (Jan 9, 2011)

Loke said:


> My previous advise stands, go to a gunshop, rent a few guns, shoot them, then decide what you like. And if you decide that you want a S&W model 4043, I've got one that I will sell you.


What a shameless plug... Awesome... :roll:


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

The .357 mag cartridge is regarded by many as an excellent self-defense round. It still enjoys a reputation of being the gold standard of stopping power among handgun cartridges and an "extremely reliable one shot stopper." For big game, such as ungulates and bears, which have a substantially sturdier build than humans, it is inferior to the .500 Smith & Wesson, .50 Action Express, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, .41 Magnum and other larger magnum rounds. Still, it is a fine small and medium game round and will kill deer very reliably at reasonable ranges if the right loads (140 grain and heavier hollow-point bullets, and solid semiwadcutter bullets


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## stick_man (Sep 10, 2007)

I was faced with a very similar situation recently, having my daughter recently express interest in me teaching her to shoot... specifically handguns. She is considering going into law enforcement, so she doesn't want to shoot the .357 revolver much. I have an M&P40 that I love to shoot. I figure to load some powderpuff loads in lead to get her used to the gun a little. Then, gradually work up to heavier loads a little at a time. Most factory loads for the .40 can be pretty snappy on recoil, so I want her to get used to the recoil without being scared off early in the adventure. One reason I went for the M&P was because of the interchangeable backstraps. It is as close to a "one size fits all" handgun as I believe is out there. It is light years ahead of the Sigma and has a much better natural point (for me, anyway) than the XD or Glock. Plus, I like the looks of it better than any others out there.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

I too am in the market for a conceal weapon. Recoil is a concern for me because 1) I'm a wimp, and 2) I have scar tissue between my thumb and index finger that make shooting some handguns painful. Part of that is fit--I had a .25 handgun that was very small, but it hurt like crazy to shoot.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Gumbo said:


> I too am in the market for a conceal weapon. Recoil is a concern for me because 1) I'm a wimp, and 2) I have scar tissue between my thumb and index finger that make shooting some handguns painful. Part of that is fit--I had a .25 handgun that was very small, but it hurt like crazy to shoot.


The problem with conceal and carry guns and recoil is that to be really comfortable and convenient for concealment and carrying they need to be small and light. Small light guns don't absorb much recoil. My daughter had this problem, too. I finally got her a Beretta Tomcat in 32 ACP for her birthday. It is very small and easy to carry. It does not have a lot of stopping power but neither does it have a lot of recoil. It has a lot of features like a pop up barrel that are really nice. My daughter loves it. My son-in law also has one and really likes it as well because it is so convenient to carry and is more accurate than his fathers 380 and he is quite macho. Beretta also makes a Bobcat that is almost identical but chambered for either 25 ACP or 22 LR. My wife has a 22 Bobcat and loves it. The 22 Bobcat is much cheaper to shoot and has a little less recoil but for strictly personal defense I would recommend the 32 ACP version simply because it shoots a round that was specifically designed to function through small semi-auto handguns and would be a little more reliable than the rimmed 22 IMO. Walther also makes some quality small semi-autos in light recoiling calibers that might fit a little better.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Gumbo said:


> I too am in the market for a conceal weapon. Recoil is a concern for me because 1) I'm a wimp, and 2) I have scar tissue between my thumb and index finger that make shooting some handguns painful. Part of that is fit--I had a .25 handgun that was very small, but it hurt like crazy to shoot.


Buy my .380 ACP that I posted on the 2nd page of this thread. It would make a fine concealed carry (thats what I bought it for) It is brand new too!


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

I found a deal on a .40 Glock 22C that I couldn't pass up. The "C" in the model number means the barrel is ported. I took the wife out the other day and shot the gun and she loves it. My buddy has the XD in a .40 and said the recoil on my Glock was very mild compared to his XD. Louder than hell though. If nothing else it will make a bear deaf. 

That's only half the story though. I think I'm going to get another one....so the search continues. I've got my eye on a sexy revolver at Cabela's in a .45 Long Colt. What can you guys tell me about the .45 LC? .44 mag is still in the running as well. I'm getting away from the concealed carry idea a bit more. May keep one in the truck but I have no desire to carry one on my person. If I carry one in the woods it will likely stay under my pillow.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Get the .454 or .460. You can always shoot the long colts through them and when it comes time to pack one for a reason, you'll have something more than a .45 LC, which is fairly similar to a pellet gun. Most .45 LC ammo that I found has to be rated for ancient guns with low pressure tolerances, so they are very slow and low energy. You can often times shoot, drop your gun and ru n to the target in time to watch the bullet pass through, that's kind of fun.

If you get one(.45 LC), I'll sell you a boat load of ammo for a good deal.

I had a Super red hawk in .454, giggled every time I shot it.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> You can often times shoot, drop your gun and run to the target in time to watch the bullet pass through, that's kind of fun.


That would be fun! How fast do you run the 40?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> What a fun subject. But in reallity, the choice of caliber to carry is meaningless. Get a gun you like, can shoot well, and are willing to carry. Kinetic energy comparisons are only meaningful if you are a gun writer and need to create a market for your stories. Everyone knows that in a pistol, bigger is better, unless smaller is faster, then who really cares. I wouldn't want to get shot with anything. My previous advise stands, go to a gunshop, rent a few guns, shoot them, then decide what you like. And if you decide that you want a S&W model 4043, I've got one that I will sell you.


What a salesman! Great lead-in.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree with treehugn

The .45 Colt, when loaded to its potential, produces greater power with less recoil and chamber pressure than a .44 Magnum. The .45 Colt is also the basis for the much more powerful .454 Casull cartridge, with the .454 Casull having a slightly longer and stronger case. Any .454 Casull revolver will also chamber and fire .45 Colt, but the inverse is impossible due to the Casull's longer case. The .460 S&W Magnum is an even longer version of the .454 Casull and the .45 Colt. Likewise, .460 Magnum revolvers can also chamber and fire the two lesser calibers, but again, the inverse is impossible.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks guys. This is just what I was looking for. Time to start looking for something chambered in a .460. The idea has me intrigued.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

With all this talk about the XD I figured I needed to point out a gun which in my mind is as nice and offers darn near everything the XD does for a better price and that is the new Ruger SR9.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/736676033010.html

It also comes in a compact which can use the full size clips as well with the grip extention.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/736676033171.html

The other one that Ive found to be a great buy for the buck is the new S&W SD9 or SD40. It takes things from the M&P and things from the Sigma and is prices right around the same as the Ruger ( high 300- low 400). It does come in the .40 where as the Ruger only comes in the 9mm. Both are great new guns and for the money I would suggest at least putting on in your hand before settling on something else.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

With cabela points, $100 off coupons and other offerings, I walked out the door with a new XD40 SubCompact for a mere $260 out of pocket. 


-DallanC


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

That's an excellent deal on a new XD!

I shot a 460 over at the range one day. S&W Wow! What a nice gun and powerful. I would take on a bear with that.

Unfortunately it would not do for a daily carry piece. It would be fine for out in the woods. What is going to happen, is that you will buy something, then later get looking at something else with different features, and 
................ on and on until you end up with a safe full of guns. I suspect that most who have contributed to this thread has 3 or more handguns. One for the woods, one for daily carry, one for deep concealment, one for the truck, one for the house, one for hunting, one just for fun, etc.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

James said:


> That's an excellent deal on a new XD!
> 
> I shot a 460 over at the range one day. S&W Wow! What a nice gun and powerful. I would take on a bear with that.
> 
> ...


Yup!
I think James has caught the essence. He who dies with the most toys wins.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

DallanC said:


> With cabela points, $100 off coupons and other offerings, I walked out the door with a new XD40 SubCompact for a mere $260 out of pocket.
> 
> -DallanC


You Sum B!!! How did you pull that off? Was this recently? Were the $100 coupons mailed out? I have not seen any of those good ones for about two months, but have been looking and I have two addresses they send them to.



Bo0YaA said:


> With all this talk about the XD I figured I needed to point out a gun which in my mind is as nice and offers darn near everything the XD does for a better price and that is the new Ruger SR9. http://www.impactguns.com/store/736676033010.html


In all seriousness; I don't see any of the unique XD features in the SR9; what XD features are you saying that it has?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Huge29 said:


> You Sum B!!! How did you pull that off? Was this recently? Were the $100 coupons mailed out? I have not seen any of those good ones for about two months, but have been looking and I have two addresses they send them to.


It was over a year ago, it was a smoking deal that I couldnt pass up for obvious reasons :O•-:

Sadly Cabelas has changed around alot of their policys reciently. The $100 off thingy no longer applies to the current purchase, it now applies to your NEXT purchase. Some of their other deals have changed as well so read the fine print.

-DallanC


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## Yonni (Sep 7, 2007)

Something to also consider is how the gun fits your hand(s). I have big hands and I prefer CZ over many other brands. And Impact guns has some of the best prices around and they are local


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Sadly Cabela's has changed around a lot of their policies recently. The $100 off thingy no longer applies to the current purchase, it now applies to your NEXT purchase. Some of their other deals have changed as well so read the fine print.


I figured, they have some of each as far as instant vs next purchase, but seem to only do the best ones from September to November.



Yonni said:


> Impact guns has some of the best prices around and they are local


I have heard that many times now; if they were just located somewhere to where you did not have to have a pack mule to get there...I will have to check them out soon.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

So I got rid of the 22C. I shot 2 rounds without hearing protecting and I think I may have permanent hearing damage....that thing was LOUD! I traded it straight across for a regular model 22.

Yonni I'll chek out impact. 

Thanks again guys.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Yeah, they do that. More flash too. You won't have all those tiny holes to clean out on the standard G22 either.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Huge29 said:


> In all seriousness; I don't see any of the unique XD features in the SR9; what XD features are you saying that it has?


Oh sorry, didn't even notice this had been replied to lol. A few things I noticed as being the same or close to the same features are.

Ambidextrous Safety Release

Picatinny Rail

Polymer Frame

High Capacity Mag

Adjustable Backstrap

Striker Status Indicator

Loaded Chamber Indicator

Trigger Safety

And others but I think you get the point. Ruger from my understanding, built the SR9 to compete in the market with the XD. Im curious what the XD has that the Ruger does not other then the grip saftey. I'm actually trying to decide on a 9mm myself but trying to stay around $350.00 $400.00


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> > In all seriousness; I don't see any of the unique XD features in the SR9; what XD features are you saying that it has?
> ...


Ok, I am with you now. Not seeing the palm safety was the main selling point on wifey pooh to get one; that is a very nice feature, but certainly not worth the $175 difference just for that. Can't go wrong with the Ruger! http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/s ... &item_num=


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

If your still looking. I would recommend the S&W M&P 40 or 45. I carry the 40 as my duty weapon and have shot all the others listed, IMO the M&P is tops. It is very comfortable to shoot and I have shot 1000s of round out of it for training and have never had any jams, malfunctions, misfires. Everyshot is just like the first. 
I have had it longer than the Deputies with glocks. Which seems like after 2000 rounds or so they start falling apart. But a Glock is cheap to fix. I know Glock offers LEs a buy it back program in which after I think 2 or 3 years you can send your gun back and they will send you a new model for like $250. Don't know if that is the same for everyone.
The other thing about the M&P is my wife loves to shoot it. She has shot both guns, Glock and M&P and she will not shoot another Glock.
The XD is also a very nice gun. But my Department don't have it on our approved list of duty weapons.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

campfire said:


> There are other things to consider than just fire power, too. You mentioned something that can be used for a variety of uses like plinking, self protection, toothy critters, Ect. Fire power both in terms of KE per round and number of rounds carried is at the opposite end of the spectrum to comfort and convenience of carrying. Fire power in terms of KE per round is not consistent with economy either if you are going to use it for plinking. In all honesty the best gun for plinking would be economical and have a mild recoil for shooting a lot of rounds and would not be very well suited for "toothy critters". The best gun for carrying around for personal defense would be small and light and would not be very accurate for plinking and would probably lack the fire power you would want for toothy critters. So I think you are going to have to sacrifice something to get something else or be satisfied with a balance that would not be ideal for any specific purpose. You seem to be interested in a semi-auto. A 9 MM has been mentioned and seems to be a reasonable "balance".


This is exactly why I chose the XDm in 9mm with the standard frame... 19+1 rounds with the newer penetrator rounds for thicker skins, while economically sound to plink and fairly accurate and safe as it has dual safety built into the back of the grip and the trigger, allowing rapid depoy and discharge. Very mild recoil for the amount of fps/Ke the gun will produce in short order, allowing more accurate repeated firing on a smaller target that has the potential to be moving at you at a high rate of speed....... I may not knock the charging target down with one shot, but I figure the improved accuracy and likelyhood of an accurately placed repeat shot outweigh the need for a heavy firepower gun. It is also small enough for a concealed option with those same benefits.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> If you get one(.45 LC), I'll sell you a boat load of ammo for a good deal.


What's a good deal?

Hey Bullsnot......although the .45 LC is a slow, heavy bullet it is very easy to shoot and it is easy on the ears. Not a huge amount of recoil or noise. It's a good caliber.....after-all, it was the gun that 'Won the West', or was that the Winchester... :|


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

It was the Winchester.............chambered for the 44WCF


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> It was the Winchester.............chambered for the 44WCF


Excuse me ?? I think you meant the 44-40....


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

That's what I said. 44 Winchester Center Fire.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

.45 said:


> Hey Bullsnot......although the .45 LC is a slow, heavy bullet it is very easy to shoot and it is easy on the ears. Not a huge amount of recoil or noise. It's a good caliber.....after-all, it was the gun that 'Won the West', or was that the Winchester... :|


I like the idea of the .45 LC....that's one reason I'm looking at the .460. I could have my cake and eat it too still being able to shoot the .45 LC cartridges. Now if I could just find a .460 worth looking at. Some of those .45 LC's are sure good lookin. I guess I just like the old, old school stuff.


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## angrychair (Jan 19, 2011)

Another stay away from Hi point here. If budget is a issue look into the semi auto Smith & Wessons they have all of the calibers you want. They are kind of Glock rip offs but very good in my oppinion. I got one cheap a few years back and have injoyed it...


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

angrychair said:


> If budget is a issue look into the semi auto Smith & Wessons they have all of the calibers you want. They are kind of Glock rip offs but very good in my oppinion. I got one cheap a few years back and have injoyed it...


I presume you are talking about the Sigma which is to be replaced here pretty quick by the new SD9 - SD40.


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