# Trailer vs Tents: it's all about effeciency



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

So this year for obvious reasons, we (not just me) are going camping more this year. At least once a month, although sometimes every couple weeks. Frequency varies and is random, it is however, frequent.

So I've complained about trailers in the past. Example annoyances include:

- ongoing Maintenance, something _always _needs fixing.
- lugging around a big loud ass generator. It occupies it's own rack behind the trailer and is loaded up when we go, put down on the ground when we get there, put back on its rack when we leave, then offloaded again and into the garage.
- Getting the fridge ready. Turning it on, shoving in ice blocks so it cools faster.
- Loading the trailer with food, clothes, etc. (we originally thought we could leave everything in the trailer. That isn't really the case, things eventually find their way out and need to be loaded again.)
- Trailer "preflight". Kingpin lock, tire covers, rear stabilizers, battery water and charge, check propane tank, dilute some bleach in the fresh water tank to prevent that sulfuric funk, and anything else I'm forgetting, you get the idea.
- Black tank, and everything associated with dumping, and flushing.

etc, etc, list is probably longer then what I'm writing.

So.. tenting it, I think it can be made A LOT more effeicient, then a trailer.

First things first, you gotta make the wife happy. My wife needed four things:
1. A comfortable bed
2. A place to sit and do her business and not squat.
3. A heater 
4. Neat and tidy storage.

We already had a little buddy heater. I think of it as a placebo. The rest should be obvious:

cot:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003696236/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

pad:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9TJ37L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Outhouse: (I've an old ameristep outhouse blind im using with this)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KQC6YP8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So I'm now digging a hole instead of dumping tanks. -1 on efficiency there. However, I don't have to dump and flush when I get back. So +1 on efficiency there. So poop is a wash on trailer vs tent. However, "Mamma" has been made happy, AND she gets a "room with a view", which she has grown to enjoy much more then 4 cramped walls.

That out of the way, this leads me to all the stuff.

I remembered a rapid mobility concept called "increments". Which is basically keeping things into ready to go kits by type. For my purposes:

- Kitchen, box, assorted, 1 each.
- Food, box, 3 man, 3 days, 1 each
- Field, Utility, box, 1 each.
- Personal bag, 3 day, 3 each.

The idea being, "Grab and go". Tupperware boxes from wallyworld work great for this. Had some I bought last year. Things go quickly, if you load your truck bed the same way every time. Increment boxes, sleeping pads, bags, cots, etc. Tetris it all in the same way every time, make it standardized, and put the things you'll need immediately (such as the tent) towards the tailgate.

Then there's the tent itself, now this is key. GET A FREAKING SPRINGBAR DESIGNED TENT. Either Springbar, or Kodiak canvas, doesnt matter, it's the tent design that is what is important. Right now we are rolling one of those Cabel's outfitter type tents and it is the most inefficient tent to put up. While I'm on this subject, I think with certain tents you can camp in places you can't put a trailer. The larger the tent footprint the less options you have available to you. Ive come to think that a 10X10 tent, is perfect for 3 people on cots.

I feel I've almost got this nailed down. Just need to iron out a smooth system. I'm also bored, and tired of "E scouting" which I do for a couple hours every freaking morning. :roll:


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

been using Springbar tents for years. Over 30.

One suggestion, if you want to use cots in your tent get some carpet squares for the feet. You can ruin your floor pretty quickly if you don't have something under the cot feet.

my 10x10 fits two full size air mattresses which makes a really nice bed for us (2 adults / 2 kids).


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

PBH said:


> been using Springbar tents for years. Over 30.
> 
> One suggestion, if you want to use cots in your tent get some carpet squares for the feet. You can ruin your floor pretty quickly if you don't have something under the cot feet.
> 
> my 10x10 fits two full size air mattresses which makes a really nice bed for us (2 adults / 2 kids).


Yup, Your right. I've been running a 10 X 10 tarp inside (and under) the tent. Major floor saver. Though, now that I think of it more, carpet square probably offer more protection between the cot legs and the tent floor, and probably more effecient then a second tarp. I might try that later if I get my hands on some scrap carpet.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Trailers are nice, no disputing that fact. In the past, we have had a 15' bumper pull trailer, a tent trailer, a 25' 5th wheel and a 24' bumper pull trailer. I liked the tent trailer the most because of it's compact size, ease of use and simple towing. It had plenty of room and was just plain comfortable.

This spring we picked up a Kodiak 10x14 Flexbow tent. We do many of the things you have mentioned with the storage of items and gear for "grab & go". We also load the truck as you described, makes things easy when you get to your spot. We picked up a Lifetime 77 quart rotomolded cooler that is freaking awesome. (never had a good cooler before) we also got a Buddy heater for those cold campouts. We have been very comfortable so far in the tent. I will say that I'm happy we went with the 10x14 over the 10x10. We get 5 of us in there and not much room to spare. If it's just me and my wife, it allows us to put a table and chairs in there if need be.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Buy a cargo trailer then you got the best of both worlds, hauls your stuff and 4 wheelers then sleep in it. tents suck in a storm. Slept in tents my whole life and no more.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Having been scout master for quite a while, I inherited several Springbar tents that were in absolute despicable repair. 

The #1 issue I had with those tents was holes in the floors due to not using a tarp / footprint for the tent. 

I know I’m preaching to the choir here guys, but for the love of everything that us holy - put a tarp down before you set up your tent! You spent a lot of money on that Springbar / Kodiak. Take care if it!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Buy a cargo trailer then you got the best of both worlds, hauls your stuff and 4 wheelers then sleep in it. tents suck in a storm. Slept in tents my whole life and no more.


Cargo trailers are nice but you need to do quite a bit of work on them to make them comfortable. The big thing is that you need to insulate them or it will be like sleeping in a refrigerator if the wind comes up on a cold night.

I have a couple of friends who purchased them and did quite a bit of work to get them the way that they like. Folding bunks and tables along with a door, windows, and vents along with the insulation on the floor, walls, and ceiling.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Regarding trailers.....

Those dangnable things, for me, the root of all my problems lay in 4 wheelers. What started me on this path of trying to make things more efficient, was a 4 wheeler. The instant we bought one, the one 21 ft 5th wheel we've been using suddenly was an even bigger pain because now we had to get a hitch installed on my wifes SUV, and now when we bring the one trailer out, we have to take two vehicles, and both of us dragging a trailer.

So lose the 5th wheel, pack everything in the back, drag the 4 wheeler trailer. A lot cheaper then looking for a toy hauler that will fit in the driveway. 

The idea of a cargo trailer did cross my mind, my thing is, im getting tired of dragging trailers in general, though I realize there's no getting out of it. I've grown too accustomed to zipping down roads on my own in a small 4X4, which goes A LOT faster then dragging a trailer. Skyline drive has become agonizing to me, because I'm tired of dragging trailers on it and roads like it. But.. i know i'll never get out of it. (EDIT: as an aside, where I live, my house is easily identifiable. Just look for the big freaking permanent dirt patch the size of a truck on the street, that's how often I'm out )

Another thing that cross my mind, was the true beauty of a jumping jack trailer, but those things are Waaaaaayyyyyyy too expensive. You could almost buy a toy hauler for as much as they charge for those. If I saw one for 1 or 2K (which will never happen), i'd be begging my wife for the go ahead to buy it in the most pathetic manner possible.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> ... we also got a Buddy heater for those cold campouts. ...


Buddy heaters are great. W2U usually brings his on our campouts. But another solution that works really well is just your gas (or propane) lantern. In the morning we'll just light the lantern and hang it inside the tent. It provides good light, and warms things up pretty quickly. Same thing when we're getting ready for bed. When it's time for lights-out, we shut the lantern off and then set it outside on the ground.



7MM RELOADED said:


> ...tents suck in a storm.


As mentioned before, we've used Springbar tents for a long time. Rain, snow, wind, hail...they've been through every kind of weather. And we still use them. There have only been two occasions where we had issues. One was because we moved camp, and rolled up the tent when it was already wet. That's a big no-no. When we set it back up at the new site the same day, it couldn't keep the water out. Lesson learned. The second issues was leaving the windows down. It rained, and of course got things wet.

We've used the Springbar on our Canada trips too, where it rains solid for a week. If you take care of your Springbar, it will hold up.

the only real negative is using the Springbar at Powell in July / August. They do tend to get rather hot.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Regarding trailers.....
> 
> Those dangnable things, for me, the root of all my problems lay in 4 wheelers.


This is the conundrum for most of us. side-by-sides are even worse. my boat won't fit in a toy hauler. And, unfortunately, my boat struggles pulling the camp trailer (jumping jack, tent trailer, etc.) up to Good Hope. :ballchain:
:noidea:

A toyhauler just isn't an option for me.

The real solution is to invest in a motorhome (class B / C). Someday I'll seriously look into a small one that I can hook either my boat or ATV trailer behind and go where we want to go. Too bad you can't find many 4x4 RVs. That would provide more peace of mind for me -- our property near Kanab has a lot of sand, and I would prefer to know that I can make it up the drive!


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## tmitty (Jun 22, 2020)

A friend has a little 15' minimally converted cargo trailer that works great for us. Hauls a 4-wheeler in there, pulls it out at camp, then we cook and sleep in the trailer. A buddy heater works great for the cold nights.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

PBH said:


> A toyhauler just isn't an option for me.
> 
> The real solution is to invest in a motorhome (class B / C). Someday I'll seriously look into a small one that I can hook either my boat or ATV trailer behind and go where we want to go. Too bad you can't find many 4x4 RVs. That would provide more peace of mind for me -- our property near Kanab has a lot of sand, and I would prefer to know that I can make it up the drive!


I have often said that in a perfect world you would have one of each.

A motor home, fifth wheel toy hauler, just a bumper pull trailer, and of course the tents. Then just take the one that works best for you on that occasion.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I've slept way to much in tents. And I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I will ever camp in one in the future... for the rest of my life.

I really dont understand alot of the Trailer complaints. Taking food out to the refrigerator is harder than managing coolers? BTW, just turn on the fridge the night before you plan to load it. My wife puts all our food in a large laundry basket, takes it all out in 1 trip. We all have our own "Grab bags" of clothes and misc stuff. 

I'm missing something on the loading complaint, TRailer or Tent, you still haul out load and later unload the same gear. And generators? Honda EU2200i's are light enough your wife can load and unload it, mine does.

We had a 18ft bumper pull trailer. It was a relatively simple and cheap trailer to use. The only real issue I ever had was I had to get an axle alignment. That really helped everything. The worst thing however, was when we wanted to take ATVs. We would double trailer and it got sketchy at times. 

Sadly 2 years ago we had a mishap and totaled the trailer. The insurance (State Farm) was unbelievable in their settlement. Full coverage and they nearly paid us as much as we bought the trailer for 6 years earlier). That plus a generous Christmas bonus and some savings we had, we were able to pick a new 19ft Toyhauler. The model was 19 but I measured it for a cover and the box is just under 23', so hey more space for free. The model we bought was one of the few that could fit 3 atvs in a "19ft" (width is the issue, its tight but we do it)

I absolutely, hands down no regrets LOVE that trailer. It is such an improvement in every way it isn't even a question. And its an order of magnitude safer than double trailering. They are built so much stronger, heavy frames, much sturdier axles... mine tows like a dream, it almost never has sway. What I love the most is just how much room there is when you get to camp and ATVs are unloaded (or pontoons if its a fishing trip). You can repurpose the interior however you want. Its even easier to load and unload by dropping that big ramp door. Gear you can just pile in the middle and run a strap or two over it (pile of pontoon boats, poles, tackleboxes etc etc). Keeps it all out of the wind, out of thieving eyes etc etc.

Around 2016 Trailer MFGs really stepped it up with the Toyhauler line with "luxury" amenities... better looking interiors, upgraded tank sizes (my previous trailer had 30gal fresh water, 20gal black and grey tanks: New trailer is 100gal water, 50gal black, 50 gal grey... and 40gal fuel station). Lots of other do-dads and misc things really make it nice.

We've never yet run out of water from hot showers, in fact I dont think we've even hit 1/3 fresh on a camping trip yet. Internal Black tank water sprayer makes that task easier and more complete.

I wont disparage anyone for their choice (Trailer vs Tent vs Camper vs Motorhome vs Motel), if it works for them and they are happy, I'm happy for them. But for myself, I'll take my nice bed, furnace, shower, porcelain toilet, Air Conditioning etc) .

It makes my wife very happy out camping. Happy wife happy life.

-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Go boxes/bags are a great idea. I've used them for years. Makes it easy to change between different camp modes and destinations easily.

In any given year I camp in a truck, Utility trailer, Camp trailer, toy hauler, cabin and Air BnB. Only difference being how many boxes/bags get loaded.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I just sold my Rockwood A122-TH pop up trailer with a platform for an ATV and in some ways I regret losing some of the conveniences associated with owning one. But I also felt like my camping experience was diminished as I tended to want to go places where I could haul my trailer. I barely camped in hard to reach places after buying it. 

We are headed to GSNEM in a couple weeks and it’ll be the first time my youngest has slept in a tent in the heat, so that will be interesting to see how she reacts. 

No doubt trailers are convenient. I’d just like to have one but not feel compelled to use it every time we go out. 

We are now looking at buying a regular trailer as opposed to a pop up but I am unsure when we’ll pull the trigger again.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I just stay at home in a nice bed and sleep great! BECOUSE I CANT DRAW A FICKING TAG!!!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

On my excursions to Arizona in February we like to be comfortable. One year one of the hunters asked us if we wanted to use his outfitter tent while we were there. We just laughed at him. We told him that we would stay at a motel for $40 a night per cabin that would sleep 3. It had heat, running water, a shower, TV, and a toilet and the restaurant/bar was only a block away. Then the hunting area was a 20 minute drive. 

We stayed at that location for years until a good friend of ours offered to let us stay at his home. it added a little bit of a drive to the hunting area but the cost was right. 

I have also found that as I get older that I enjoy the comforts of a nice bed and a hot shower. And while I can go without the shower for a while that nice bed has to stay.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> I just stay at home in a nice bed and sleep great! BECOUSE I CANT DRAW A FICKING TAG!!!


LOL...

But seriously, there are so many cool places to visit here in our state that go beyond hunting. We camp and hunt maybe every 4 years... but every individual year we try to get out camping at least 6 times.

Lots of fishing trips, sight seeing, sand dunes etc. Lots to do in a year. We were at the sand dunes this past weekend, it was awesome. 2 weeks before that I spent 4 days on the Boulder exploring, sight seeing and fishing. 2 weeks before that spent 3 days up north of Strawberry.

I love this state 

-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

DallanC said:


> LOL...
> 
> But seriously, there are so many cool places to visit here in our state that go beyond hunting.* We camp and hunt maybe every 4 years*... but every individual year we try to get out camping at least 6 times.
> 
> ...


You mean.. there is something other then hunting? Nooo way! I don't believe you! :mrgreen:

Between turkey, big game, grouse, and lame attempts at coyote hunting, i'm probably NOT hunting (or at least scouting), maybe... 3 months out of the year?


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I have to take time off from camping to keep up the yard. It is a tough life!


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

Simplicity and convenience vs. comfort and cost--a debate for the ages. 

I like sleeping in tents, but my favorite camping rig is an old pop up tent trailer that NHS pulls around. I basically live off of PB sandwiches, pop tarts, bananas, trail mix, and jerky while hunting so I don't even need a cooler, let alone a fridge.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I love my Jumping Jack, but I'll admit, with young kids it is really hard to beat the luxury of having running water with our trailer. 

Lone Tree, l will sell you my Jumping Jack for $2500. You just gotta get to Anchorage to pick it up


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> I have to take time off from camping to keep up the yard. It is a tough life!


I just realized why I'd sooner shovel snow in the winter, then mow my lawn in the summer. Shoveling snow is harder, but it doesn't interfere with my "busy schedule" as much. :mrgreen:



AF CYN said:


> Simplicity and convenience vs. comfort and cost--a debate for the ages.
> 
> I like sleeping in tents, but my favorite camping rig is an old pop up tent trailer that NHS pulls around. I basically live off of PB sandwiches, pop tarts, bananas, trail mix, and jerky while hunting so I don't even need a cooler, let alone a fridge.


I see we have a similar diet. If I'm by myself, 99% of the time, I don't have a cooler.



johnnycake said:


> I love my Jumping Jack, but I'll admit, with young kids it is really hard to beat the luxury of having running water with our trailer.
> 
> Lone Tree, l will sell you my Jumping Jack for $2500. You just gotta get to Anchorage to pick it up


Great, one more reason upon a pile of reasons why I want to move to Alaska. How do you like that jumpinjack anyway? What are your reasons for wanting to sell it? Just a nogo with kids?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

When I was younger, I had no issues sleeping in a tent. Just last year I sold my wall tent, frame and stove. I'm in the process of making a "sheep camp" style trailer now. (going on two years)


The biggest issue I have is my better half. She has had three back fusions, both hips replaced and continues to deal with chronic pain. She needs to be comfortable and no way could she deal with sleeping on a cot in a tent. Besides, she needs a powder room. 


We were looking at truck campers thinking that was an option. We could pull the SxS behind and have a great time. "Holy bat crap Robin" have you seen the prices of new campers?:shock::shock: I feel off the chair and began choking. 40K for a camper??!! I could buy a lot of motel rooms for that price.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> "Holy bat crap Robin" have you seen the prices of new campers?:shock::shock:.. 40K for a camper??!!


I've looked, and had the same reaction as you. $40k, and you have to supply the engine and wheels yourself!!

It's worse than the ATV market. Did you guys know that a Honda Pioneer doesn't come with cup holders? Those are extra....

The problem with these markets is that people just continue to buy / spend more, more, more...

I'm thinking I need a Mahindra Roxor with a track kit!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I would love one of the bigger Jumping Jack trailers. But 10 grand for a Spring Bar tent on a flat bed? 

I get they are convenient and very useful, which is why I'd love one. But dang...those things are pricey!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> We were looking at truck campers thinking that was an option. We could pull the SxS behind and have a great time. "Holy bat crap Robin" have you seen the prices of new campers?:shock::shock: I feel off the chair and began choking. 40K for a camper??!! I could buy a lot of motel rooms for that price.


My new toyhauler ... special ordered no less with some custom features, was WELL below that, like 1/3rd lower.

I've seen some Arctic Fox campers in that price range. They are very well built, and rated to well below 0 conditions. If I had to camp in those conditions, it would be a great option... but not for summer camping in Utah. I'd rather have a cheaper trailer AND a new side by side for that price.

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PBH said:


> It's worse than the ATV market. Did you guys know that a Honda Pioneer doesn't come with cup holders? Those are extra....


 Can-Am and Polaris both have new UTVs that have air conditioning, seriously.



> I'm thinking I need a Mahindra Roxor with a track kit!


I know this was in jest probably. Roxor's biggest issue its they are HEAVY, +3000lbs. I thought they were pretty neat when announced, fun for rock crawling but I felt a nimble SxS like a Talon, Wildcat, Razor etc would be a better option. Get it licensed and you could drive it anywhere.

But now I'm second guessing myself after seeing new trail signs specifically calling out Type 1 and Type 2 UTVs as still being prohibited EVEN IF, they are road legal. Its a new interesting development in the SxS world.

I'm betting a Roxxor could drive anywhere on these restricted trails with not even a second look from law enforcement, where the Razor guy is getting a ticket.










-DallanC


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

My buddy bought a new Can-Am Maverick 2 seater for $14k and dropped another $16k in accessories. Yes, more in accessories than the cost of the machine. Not my cup of tea. Anyway back to trailers... I would buy another camp trailer, probably in the 21'-24' range if the right deal popped up. The issue I have now is parking at my house, my 3 girls all have cars and I have 3 vehicles and a boat. The RV pad is full and the driveway is full. I'm not going to park a trailer on the street like the neighbors all do......


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You can always concrete the front and back yards. 

While I am not in the market for one I keep my eyes open for the right deal for a nicer trailer, but then I am kind of particular on what I want and if I find the right one for the right price I'll bring it home. My biggest problem like others is parking. The folks that built my home and garage did not do me any favors if I need to get something into my backyard. The garage is detached and sits at the end of my driveway with the house off to the right of the drive. So to get into the back yard I need to do some fancy turning to get my truck back into it. I do have a 16' car hauler that I use my ATV to back into it's parking spot in the back. So a larger camping trailer could be quite interesting.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Can-Am and Polaris both have new UTVs that have air conditioning, seriously.


But, that's an extra. So is the heat. And the radio. Cup holders, roof, doors, etc. All extra.

And, yet, a brand new Chevy Sonic, Honda Fit, or Kia Forte all come with AC, heat, radio, rearview mirrors, spare tire, air bags, etc...standard, and for less money!



Fowlmouth said:


> The issue I have now is parking at my house, my 3 girls all have cars and I have 3 vehicles and a boat. The RV pad is full and the driveway is full. I'm not going to park a trailer on the street like the neighbors all do......


i feel for you. I no longer have that problem! :grin:

(maybe I'll start renting out trailer parking on my place?)


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I am kind of particular on what I want and if I find the right one for the right price I'll bring it home.


That's why I am building a sheep camp trailer. All the amenities of home (- the shower) propane heater, 52" tall 3-way fridge/freezer and a wood stove. 3-1/2" insulation in the floor and ceiling. 1-1/2" rigid foam walls and its all skinned with aluminum sheets. 


The largest cost was the aluminum. 12 sheets cost almost $800. Had all the other stuff from a camp trailer I scraped out.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I wasn't going to be as forward as to suggest he hit you up for storage space 

I am lucky enough to have a friend with a big lot who doesn't mind an extra trailer or two.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> That's why I am building a sheep camp trailer. All the amenities of home (- the shower) propane heater, 52" tall 3-way fridge/freezer and a wood stove. 3-1/2" insulation in the floor and ceiling. 1-1/2" rigid foam walls and its all skinned with aluminum sheets.
> 
> 
> The largest cost was the aluminum. 12 sheets cost almost $800. Had all the other stuff from a camp trailer I scraped out.


I like where you are going with this, please post pictures down the road as it comes together.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have a couple of friends that are building what they want out of enclosed cargo trailers. 

They are insulating the walls, floor, and ceiling. Raising the floor up a few inches to allow for plumbing to be ran along with putting in a actual door, a few windows, and a couple of vents. They will have heating and cooking areas along with the 2 way refrigerators. The bunks will be fold down with matrices on them. 

The trailers are large enough that you can pull a side by side in or park 2 4 wheelers side by side. 

They will be completely custom jobs. One is pretty much finished and is looking real good.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> We were looking at truck campers thinking that was an option. We could pull the SxS behind and have a great time. "Holy bat crap Robin" have you seen the prices of new campers?:shock::shock: I feel off the chair and began choking. 40K for a camper??!! I could buy a lot of motel rooms for that price.


I've looked at that too. Truck campers are unbelievably expensive. Conceptually, you'd think it would be a more affordable option then a toyhauler. Nope. Probably just as, if not more expensive then a toy hauler.

The kick in the crotch is that if your serious about a truck camper, buying locally you don't have much choice. If you dig around on KSL, there's a crapload of bumper tows, followed by 5th wheels, then toyhaulers, with truck campers being the least amount shown. Dealers here in Utah seem to sell mainly bumpertows and toyhaulers.


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## bowdude (Aug 11, 2019)

We had a nice 16 foot pop up tent trailer. Found we were not using it as much as we used to so we sold it. Was going to purchase a hard sided 16 or 18 ft trailer but after thinking about it, we decided it may not get used anymore than the tent trailer. We moved to hammocks and a 6x12 ice fishing tent to house the hammocks when we sleep. We built stands and later bought commercially manufactured stands that break down smaller and easier to haul around. We have graduated from the tent to a 10 x 12 tarp over the hammocks and an 8 x 8 tarp under them for a floor. We haul around the lounge chairs and a camp chef stove for cooking. I have a portable sink with counter to do the dishes. I have a 1000 watt generator (yamaha brand) and a string of 100 watt LED lights that the generator powers up. We have found that moving backward towards simplistic camping has been much more enjoyable for us. We stay in KOA camp grounds when we travel and the cost is very reasonable. We stayed at Grand Canyon a couple of years ago when the temps were 32 at night. Slept comfortable and warm. Got up in the morning and had breakfast at the park restaurant. We went to Washington last year and stayed in the KOA's on our drive there. Saved grundels of money in hotel fees. We are going to Custer State Park in September this year and will follow the same format for camping. My kids and grandkids think we are a couple of crazy 65+ old grandparents. Our hammocks have bug nets and the KOA's have showers and toilets. What more do you need? If we want to rough it, and sometimes we do, we have to forgo the toilets and shower, but it is still manageable.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A great way to handle the bathroom problems without a hard sided trailer is to find a nice plastic chair and a old plastic seat. Then just cut a hole and find a old shower tent or just a few trees to hide the person a little and you are done. That is except for digging a hole. Then just leave the shovel near the chair and fill it in as you go....


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I like where you are going with this, please post pictures down the road as it comes together


If I ever get it finished! Every time I save a few bucks and plan to finish it, the Woman has other plans of crap she wants me to build.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Critter said:


> I have a couple of friends that are building what they want out of enclosed cargo trailers.
> 
> They are insulating the walls, floor, and ceiling. Raising the floor up a few inches to allow for plumbing to be ran along with putting in a actual door, a few windows, and a couple of vents. They will have heating and cooking areas along with the 2 way refrigerators. The bunks will be fold down with matrices on them.
> 
> ...


After I began my "project" I smacked my self in the cranium and asked "why didn't I use an enclosed trailer?"


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Great, one more reason upon a pile of reasons why I want to move to Alaska. How do you like that jumpinjack anyway? What are your reasons for wanting to sell it? Just a nogo with kids?


I actually love it, but I just don't use it much. 5 nights in the last 15 months, versus +45 nights in the trailer over the same period.

Plus the wheel base of my SxS is about 10" longer than the platform. And even if it weren't, I'd be pretty concerned with how high the center of gravity would be if I used it to haul my SxS.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

You combine a holiday weekend, with COVID, both of which drive far more people into the mountains then you'd typically see; I can say this with absolute certainty, it doesn't matter if your dragging a trailer, or pitching a tent, you will not find any camping spots.

On Friday, I drove 70 miles from home, then drove another 30 on top of that looking for a camp. None, whatsoever, and I know this area reasonably well. I ended up going home. 

It drives home a thought, that if there is ever a situation where people feel compelled to "bug out" in their trailer, it's just not going to work. 

That was the last time i try camping on a holiday weekend. I knew better, but I tried it anyway.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

And I would say that most of those trailers that you encountered up in the hills have been there since Memorial Day

All you need to do is to take the same ride after the holiday and see just how many are left up in the hills..


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> That was the last time i try camping on a holiday weekend. I knew better, but I tried it anyway.


It's not just the holiday weekends this year, it's every weekend. I posted about this several weeks ago when I drove to Strawberry, which is 100 miles from my house. I drove another 70 miles up and down every dirt road around Strawberry. (Clyde Creek, Mud Creek, Renegade, Strawberry River, Co-Op, Bjorkman, Chicken Creek) We could not find a camping spot anywhere, so we turned around and drove home. Yes, freeloaders that park their trailers up there for the entire season, hogging the best spots. "F" those guys!...&#8230;.I'll just drive 180 miles to Fish Lake and do my camping from now on....


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I was actually surprised that there were empty camps in my neck of the woods. That hasn't been true most weekends this year.

Now the folks driving UTV's around all night long with their light up the world lights and tuned exhausts were another matter. I though I was transported to Sand Mountain.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

I boat a lot and have had a motorhome, a bumper-pull, a Springbar, and pulled the boat behind my fifthwheel.
The motorhome was the worst to use the boat with, followed by the fifthwheel being second worse.
I now have a camper that I use if my wife goes, we drop it in the camp spot and that frees the truck to launch/retrieve or use for afternoon drives to go fish creeks.
Her and I have a process and can drop the camper in barely over 13 minutes.
This method leaves the camper barely a foot off the ground, which is really safe for grandkids, pets, etc.
If I am on my own I use the camper /Springbar 50/50 depending on my mood.
I also use the camper/utility trailer for ice fishing and load my ice fish rig/shanty on the trailer.
Bought the camper on KSL for 3k.
If you buy a camper, make electric jacks the priority!


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> And I would say that most of those trailers that you encountered up in the hills have been there since Memorial Day
> 
> All you need to do is to take the same ride after the holiday and see just how many are left up in the hills..


Yeah that thought occurred to me. I think it was you, who used the term "homesteaders". Your spot on. Driving around, it looked to me that most of those camps had been there a lot longer then then a day. I concluded to myself that even if I arrived at 5AM that day, it wouldn't have made any difference.

Several large family camps. May as well think of them as circled wagons. On top of that, i saw quite a few walmart cabin tents.

I also saw at least one large camp that was new... meaning, they just cut off the road, down a meadow, and made a new camp area, even though there was your standard forest service sign saying "restricted area".

On the way in, i noticed people making camps off the highway, which I have never seen before. I also noticed serveral vehicles coming out fully loaded on a friday afternoon, which I thought odd. Only after I gave up and headed for home did I realize, i just did exactly what those people just did.

It's nuts, and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it's going to effect hunting season in a bad way. There must be 2 to 3 times the amount of normal human pressure out there right now, if not more.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You'll find that a lot of these folks are just getting away from the city and don't hunt, they might fish but who really knows. 

I know a few that head to the hills and they don't hunt or fish. They just like being able to get up into the hills to get away from the heat of the city. They also usually pull their campers out before any storms hit in the fall. They don't like mud either.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Critter said:


> You'll find that a lot of these folks are just getting away from the city and don't hunt, they might fish but who really knows.
> 
> I know a few that head to the hills and they don't hunt or fish. They just like being able to get up into the hills to get away from the heat of the city. They also usually pull their campers out before any storms hit in the fall. They don't like mud either.


Apparently, they don't like paying storage fees either. Probably another reason they leave their trailers on the mountain half of the year. Probably the same ding dongs that pull trailers with Toyota Tacomas.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I've said it about every year not, but I think its not too long before you will be required to buy a camping pass to camp in the National Forests or BLM lands. It will have a date range on it and probably be some kind of sticker you affix to the outside of the trailer / tent so rangers can easily check for camps past their allotted time.


-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> Apparently, they don't like paying storage fees either. Probably another reason they leave their trailers on the mountain half of the year. Probably the same ding dongs that pull trailers with Toyota Tacomas.


No, I think that they just like being able to "homestead" a spot all summer and not have to worry about hauling a trailer up into the hills only to be unable to find a spot to park it.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> No, I think that they just like being able to "homestead" a spot all summer and not have to worry about hauling a trailer up into the hills only to be unable to find a spot to park it.


This goes way beyond leaving a trailer up just before, and during a hunting season. Honestly I've never seen it this bad before, so i'm guessing it's mostly covid escapee's, not that it does much good being in large trailer camps right next to each other.

As for forest passes, I HATE that idea. Nothing I hate more then having my "papers" in order to go camping. It's too authoritarian for my taste. Now that I think about it, someone still has to go through and enforce that anyway, and they don't even enforce the 14 day limit all that much as it is, so it's kind of a wash.

Derailed my own thread. Too short on sleep to care.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Some of these spots have a years worth of chopped fire wood sitting under tarps. The Forest Service should be able to figure out they are worthless squatters.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I've said it about every year not, but I think its not too long before you will be required to buy a camping pass to camp in the National Forests or BLM lands. It will have a date range on it and probably be some kind of sticker you affix to the outside of the trailer / tent so rangers can easily check for camps past their allotted time.
> 
> -DallanC


In all honesty, I don't think the "tree cops" give a rats ars. If they did, those "homesteaders" would be ticketed or towed.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

DallanC said:


> I've said it about every year not, but I think its not too long before you will be required to buy a camping pass to camp in the National Forests or BLM lands. It will have a date range on it and probably be some kind of sticker you affix to the outside of the trailer / tent so rangers can easily check for camps past their allotted time.
> 
> -DallanC


Larimer County Colorado now requires public land users to buy fishing/hunting licenses to use certain areas. 
https://www.bing.com/search?q=color...s=n&sk=&cvid=17442591461247e5a169a820b639a7dc


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

Rented an RV this past weekend to do a camping staycation with the family. Totally expensive and totally worth it. One of the most enjoyable trips we've ever had. I have to admit, the idea of buying one crossed my mind. Then again, it was also nice to just return it and let Cruise America deal with dumping waste, refilling propane, etc...


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

My parents bought a Scamp trailer and joined us camping last week. 

I was really impressed with the build quality of the little thing. It really was well built and didn’t feel like a dumpy cheap box on wheels like a lot of campers do. 

A guy in our campground bought a brand new toy hauler and came over and said that it was his first trip in the thing and had tons of problems with it and said he thought the cabinets were nicer in the Scamp than his trailer.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> My parents bought a Scamp trailer and joined us camping last week.
> 
> I was really impressed with the build quality of the little thing. It really was well built and didn't feel like a dumpy cheap box on wheels like a lot of campers do.


Those and the GEO PRO's are getting really popular. Crazy priced for the size though (IMO). Yuppys like them though so they shell out lots of cash.



> A guy in our campground bought a brand new toy hauler and came over and said that it was his first trip in the thing and had tons of problems with it and said he thought the cabinets were nicer in the Scamp than his trailer.


What brand 'hauler?

IMO, all new trailers irregardless of brand have their share of "first year issues". My neighbor has issues with his new Geo Pro, My other neighbor had a bunch of issues with his new Momentum.

Ours is an Attitude. I had minor trouble with my hotwater heater short cycling, and the refrigerator didnt work on 110v. Hotwater heater ended up being the thermostats not installed flush with the tank, and the refrigerator 110v cord ended up just not being plugged in. Oh and the fresh / grey / black tank levels all read wonky, that ended up being some nitwit hooked the wrong colors to the wrong leads on the tank (they were all hooked up in the wrong order... on every tank).

All minor stuff, the only real issue is getting in for warranty work service, RV dealers are SLAMMED with work orders, 6-8 weeks out to get an appointment to get the rv on the lot. If its noncritical repair work, just use the trailer and keep a list of "fix me's" and get it done over the winter.

-DallanC


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

AF CYN said:


> Rented an RV this past weekend to do a camping staycation with the family. Totally expensive and totally worth it. One of the most enjoyable trips we've ever had. I have to admit, the idea of buying one crossed my mind. Then again, it was also nice to just return it and let Cruise America deal with dumping waste, refilling propane, etc...


We did the same and had similar thoughts. Found the style of travel very appealing for certain situations but not sure we could ever justify a purchase. I owned a small travel trailer once and learned quickly about how costs add up:

1) Storage
2) Insurance
3) Maintenance
4) Add ons

Cruise America is expensive but it serves it's purpose nicely. I would think we could keep renting from them every 2-3 years for such trips and ultimately save ourselves thousands or more compared to buying.

Tempted by a tent trailer but I think we ultimately have at least another 15 years before we could justify even that. We'll save the money and invest it instead.


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