# NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE??????



## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

I would say utah has worked hard to increase the number of turkeys. But should it just be opened up to hunt with unlimited Over the counter tags? Last year was a joke during the late season. Was there really that many birds left? I'm not 100% for it.

What do you all think?

http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/09-07/more.php


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

I am not sure I like it as well, I drew a tag for the early season severla years ago and had a awsome time. There was very little pressure from other hunters and the birds were reacting to my calls and were not call shy. A couple years ago I tried to help a friend in the same area but for a late seasson tag in May. It was much harder and not as good as experience. There was lots of pressure from other hunters and the birds were not as vocal and reactive to calls. I wish they would leave it as it is.

Mark


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't think it is a very good idea. I had a late (almost OTC) Northern region tag this spring. I could have hunted harder, but was pretty disappointed with what I saw. I think the DWR will be shooting themselves in the foot as far as turkey hunting goes by doing this right now. Just my opinion...


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## springerhunter (Apr 17, 2008)

I have mixed feelings about the general hunt. I grew up in Idaho and remember when they opened it to a general season and everyone said that was going to ruin everything....it didn't and there are a lot of turkeys there. With that said there are less people in the state of Idaho than in Utah so there will be a lot more hunters out chasing them. I think I'd rather limit the number of tags and only get to hunt them every couple years than be able to hunt every year with large number of other hunters. We'll see how it plays out.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

OTC tags have been the goal for quite sometime. Utah has a higher success rate (much higher) than most any other state. I think it is great if they meet that goal.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

How can you claim that Utah has a higher success rate when they have not yet been over the counter? Utah has made HUGE jumps in tag number in two year with little to no data to back up what they are doing. They had a very large number of tags this year and I think it is still to early to make changes with out the data.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

cklspencer said:


> How can you claim that Utah has a higher success rate when they have not yet been over the counter? Utah has made HUGE jumps in tag number in two year with little to no data to back up what they are doing. They had a very large number of tags this year and I think it is still to early to make changes with out the data.


Well...I am not a turkey expert by any means, I am mostly just passing on information I have heard or read in the past. So it is possible I am wrong (it happened once before). I don't have a lot of time but on a quick search I see the success rates were:

2004 - 60%
2005 - 47%
2006 - 49%

Those are the only ones I see right off hand, I am sure with more searching one could find the rest. Those numbers seem really high to me. To my understanding other states were not seeing success rates nearly that high. Please if I am wrong direct me in the right direction.

Thanks.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

After 2006 the number of tags was largely raised, more so in 2008 and for 2009. Im sure if you find the success rate for those years you will find them to be much lower. But then again since Utah does not make you report your success how would they know what the success rate was. They would have had to call every single person with a tag and we all know that didn't happen. So the numbers you are posting have no real merit.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

What many of us are forgetting is we in Utah have three opening days in ALL the units. That means that three times in two months everyone with a tag goes screaming out to kill themselves a turkey. The flocks get bombarded with hunters and pressured every weekend for 5 weeks in a row. This makes for some very call shy, wary, educated, hard to kill turkeys in a big hurry. If they opened the hunt up to everyone and only opened it one time, you'd get the typical opening weekend may-lay like you do in every other state that has turkeys, and then just like every other state it would cool off and the turkeys would go back to normal life again. All the idiots would loose interest and stay home and the people that want to have a quality hunt would go out and experience just that, A QUALITY HUNT. Utah has plenty of turkeys to sustain an over the counter hunt, and all it would do is make it better for everyone. If the turkeys get a little more educated and wise and heaven forbid, get a little harder to kill, Waaa! Learn how to hunt turkeys! The average National hunter success rate on wild turkeys is 11% We have enjoyed 35-60% success on STUPID turkeys, and there are still turkeys all over the place with most flocks having 30 toms per 100 hens. (The National tom to hen ratio is 15 toms per 100 hens) The reason some of you had a hard time this last season is because they are getting smarter, not fewer.

Over the counter is the WAY. Besides Nevada and a few isolated spots in Idaho, we're the only state that has a draw.

But, you can rest assured that if it benefits the overall quality of the hunt and the flock the DWR will NOT do it. They'll only do it if it's the PC thing to do, and it makes them the most money.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

OK, this plan opens the state up to unlimited permits (OTC) so...if the biology supports it, open it up. BUT...I say NO NO NO to the first hunt (go with the youth if you must). All we are doing is jamming all these hunters into a shorter time frame. I have hunted for years in states with OTC sales and the hunts are fine. For the most part, the problem is the Utah hunters, not the number of Utah hunters. Most Utah hunters are soooo inexperienced and know sooo little about turkey hunting and turkey hunting etiquette that they come off looking like slob hunters. Give us a few years and I think (hope) we will become better sportsman in the field. Just say NO to any limited opportunity hunts!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> I say NO NO NO to the first hunt


What do you mean, exactly...

I'm all fort a youth hunt a week before the main hunt. Turkey hunting is tailer made for kids. A hunt for the youth is an awesome thing. Just like ducks.

As far as the "Utah hunter" problem, that is something that will just have to work it's self out over time. Yes, there will always be slob hunters, but in time we'll learn from our mistakes and the hunt will be like it is anywhere else.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I guess that was kind of phrased awkwardly. This is what I would like to see:
1) one turkey hunt, starting around the middle of April and ending around the last of May...if the biology supports it...sales would be "state wide" OTC with no limit to the number of permits.
2) A youth only turkey hunt lasting maybe 3-5 days. The timing of that hunt is a tough one because if you have it before the regular hunt you may have bad weather or the birds still un-active and spoil the hunt, but if you stop the regular hunt for a week of youth only, you might have birds that are a little "educated" to deal with. I need to do a little more thinking on this one.

But yes Tex, you are right, an "opening day" every couple of weeks is worse than stupid. It actually creates the problem you described. I am just totally apposed to any hunts that limit opportunity for the sake of limiting only in some lame attempt to create a “better hunt” for a few. NO NO NO LIMITED ENTRY TURKEY HUNTING BULL CRAP!!!!


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## hunter_orange13 (Oct 11, 2008)

i think we need otc too. and i think we need to pay more attention to the deer and elk herds and less about the turkeys imo


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

hunter_orange13 said:


> i think we need otc too. and i think we need to pay more attention to the deer and elk herds and less about the turkeys imo


What in the world are you suggesting...this IS the upland game forum is it not? Are you saying we need to talk more about big game on this forum? or are you saying the DWR needs to forget about everything except the "deer and elk" herds... a "i think we need otc too" is plenty of thought and discussion about something as unimportant as turkey hunting?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

hunter_orange13 said:


> i think we need otc too. and i think we need to pay more attention to the deer and elk herds and less about the turkeys imo


Dude, elk and turkeys ARE all the DWR has cared about for the last 20 years. Ask any biologist. Deer are a pain in the ass, they can't be farmed, they don't transplant easy, they are much more prone to predation, winter kill, habitat loss, and cars than anything else, and EVERYONE wants to kill a giant buck but NO ONE wants to wait 20 years to draw a once in a lifetime tag to do it.

Turkeys are a huge success story for sure, now we need to keep the ball rolling and make it open to everyone, period.

I like the youth hunt the week before the opener. The birds are dumb, they are low on the mountain and can be accessed easy, and they are calling and will come in to calls. The weather is just that, the weather. Sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's not. Oh well, if the weather sux for the youth opener it's not the end of the world, they still have the entire hunt to get it done. And if they have parents that will take them out it should be a no brainer.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

OK Tex, your right on the youth hunt being held before the regular hunt, most states do it that way and seems to work great. Now, what are your thoughts on the "limited" hunts" they are suggesting. What possible good can come from that. I fear they will lead to a system like we have in the big game hunts, and we all know what a mess that is. Can you think of even one biological reason to have limited turkey hunts? I think we need to just open the whole state, no regions, or districts, or units, or LE's.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I agree, NO limited hunts! We have enough turkeys now in all areas of the state that it can support over the counter tag sales. Turkeys are tough birds. They adapt quickly, they get smart really fast, and once the flock is established they're like trying to get rid of ****roaches. (just ask any farmer in Montana) Limited hunts on turkeys is retarded. The only way I can see it necessary is in an isolated area where they don't have anywhere to hide or get away from hunters. Name me ONE place like that in this state... I didn't think you could... :wink:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I agree, NO limited hunts! We have enough turkeys now in all areas of the state that it can support over the counter tag sales. Turkeys are tough birds. They adapt quickly, they get smart really fast, and once the flock is established they're like trying to get rid of ****roaches. (just ask any farmer in Montana) Limited hunts on turkeys is retarded. The only way I can see it necessary is in an isolated area where they don't have anywhere to hide or get away from hunters. Name me ONE place like that in this state... I didn't think you could... :wink:


Your right, give it another year or two and these Utah turkeys will be so educated that it won't be easy kill them anymore. I can't hard wait for the challenge. :mrgreen:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks for your comments Tex, you pretty much summed up all my th oughts on this issue as well.


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## Dekashika (Oct 23, 2007)

Yeah sure................now that I have 6 points waiting for a tag :!: :roll:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Dekashika said:


> Yeah sure................now that I have 6 points waiting for a tag :!: :roll:


Waaa! I have six points too. So what... I'd rather be able to just buy a tag this text year and have a month to fill it and a whole state to hunt in, than draw a tag and only have two weeks, in one area, with 300 other screaming idiots.


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## Caddis36 (Oct 26, 2007)

That LE Hunt For two weeks with 300 screamin idiots will still be better Huntin with thousands of idiots who think they can use a Box call and call in every turkey they see,


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Caddis36 said:


> That LE Hunt For two weeks with 300 screamin idiots will still be better Huntin with thousands of idiots who think they can use a Box call and call in every turkey they see,


No it wont.


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

Dekashika said:


> Yeah sure................now that I have 6 points waiting for a tag :!: :roll:


+1 I'm all for the youth hunt on this one!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

All I can say is I'm against it.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> All I can say is I'm against it.


Againts what? Abortion, gay marriage, dogs in the house, what? :?


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

Speaking of turkeys, i have wild turkey that has taken up residence in my front yard here in corinne. i see her 3-4 times a week. I have seen her for a few months now. i might have to invite her to thanksgiving dinner :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

I agree 100% with the DWR on this one. (Did I just say that, I must not be feeling good or something!) Opening the late hunt to over the counter tags will not make much of a difference on turkey numbers. They are educated from the first hunters and they are more spread out at that point. Very few in reality, who buy a OTC tag, will actually fill the tag. Plus it will put a substantial amount of new funds for the DWR. I wish they would put the extra money they make to other upland game habitat restoration. :mrgreen: I can dream cant I!


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## birdman (Nov 21, 2007)

I say if it's going to be otc tags then do it for the whole season. If they want to keep some particular areas (such as those flocks adjacent to the large urban areas or smaller flocks that might still be a bit sensitive to the masses) as a draw then do two seasons, early and late. But don't break units into early season LE followed by otc late. Colorado has some units that are LE and others that are otc. People who draw the LE can also get an otc tag if they desire. I'd like to see something similar if they want to continue the LE issue. Do the youth season prior to the opening, maybe the Sat, Sun, Mon before. Unfilled youth tags are then otc thereafter. 

I think it's time for folks in Utah to suck it up and become turkey hunters. Turkey hunting is hard but highly rewarding when it all comes together. Look at it this way, having to hunt a lot of days to get a bird will just give you a lot more experience for the future. You can watch all the videos about turkey hunting you want but there is no substitute for field experience. A 20-25% success rate should be expected.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> A 20-25% success rate should be expected.


A success rate that high would be great. The national success rate is just a little over 11%


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