# Big new AD on DWR front page !



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

From Utah DWR web site, And I quote..

" Join the DWR ( Feb. 13-16 ) at the Western Hunting and Concervation Expo"

http://www.huntexpo.com/

I couldn't help it......


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> From Utah DWR web site, And I quote..
> 
> " Join the DWR ( Feb. 13-16 ) at the Western Hunting and Concervation Expo"
> 
> ...


So what's your point goofy?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Just the typo? They are a sponsor...

Edit-that isn't a direct quote, because they spelled "conservation" correctly on their site. They are a sponsor, I would expect them to advertise it.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I think someone really likes stirring the poo poo.-------SS


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Yeah, they had one last year too, and the year before....and the year before, and the...-O,-


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> So what's your point goofy?


A guess the point is how tightly knotted up the DWR is with
The Expo, SFW, and concervation permits........;-)........

I dont see it changing any time soon either.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> A guess the point is how tightly knotted up the DWR is with
> The Expo, SFW, and concervation permits........;-)........
> 
> I dont see it changing any time soon either.


You happen to be right on this one goofy. SFW has bought and paid for their influence with the DWR, the WB, and certain politicians to get their agendas installed. I'm pretty sure they are paid at least through this decade and then some. At least the neighboring states see through the money curtain and are holding that organization at bay...-oOo-


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Oh, by tightly knit, you mean this kind of garbage?

http://le.utah.gov/~2014/bills/static/SCR004.html

"Bought and paid for...." understatement of the year and we're barely a month into 2014.

Oh and then anyone who's put in for their big game tags has seen the division's ad for the expo on the receipt page too. You know, why not let the expo move forward on its own merit and allow the division to retain 100% of any penny associated with the convention and conservation tags including application fees? Keep the booth fees, admission fees, sponsorship fees, and any other fee they collect but tie the public trust of those tags directly to the agency responsible for managing them. I might even start applying and making the drive to validate.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Garbage ? NOT ! IMO ...

From Kblz's link:

*Highlighted Provisions:*
14 This resolution:
15 . commends the citizens of Utah and state agencies for creating innovative public and
16 private partnerships that create and maintain lands, healthy habitats, and abundant
17 herds, while expanding our hunting and outdoor economies;
18 . recommends that the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources and the Utah Wildlife
19 Board continue to make long-term commitments to the Western Hunting and
20 Conservation Expo, private landowners, and those investing substantial resources to
21 ensure healthy habitats, abundant herds, and jobs in the hunting economy; and
22 . encourages additional state efforts to promote Utah's world-class outdoor
23 recreational opportunities and to further educate tourists and Utah citizens regarding
24 the role that sportsmen and private landowners play in conserving Utah's lands and
25 healthy wild populations.

I'm ALL FOR a long term commitment in this direction!
Looking forward to this bill passing...


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Neighboring states see right through the SFW BS.

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_f97b12b6-209e-11e3-9bcc-0019bb2963f4.html


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I'm ALL FOR a long term commitment in this direction!
> Looking forward to this bill passing...


What direction? It's all rhetoric. That wouldn't bother me so much if the "Expo, private landowners, and those investing substantial resources" were men of integrity concerned with the public trust over self interest. But they're not...at least not in my experience.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Finnegan said:


> What direction? It's all rhetoric. That wouldn't bother me so much if the "Expo, private landowners, and those investing substantial resources" were men of integrity concerned with the public trust over self interest. But they're not...at least not in my experience.


Right. Make it great, conserve, maintain, blah blah blah


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

I think it's all a bunch of money grubin CRAP...People keep buyin into it! What A Joke!


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

goofy elk said:


> Garbage ? NOT ! IMO ...
> 
> From Kblz's link:
> 
> ...


You would be. So explain as to why we need a bill to eliminate the fair bidding process on public trust? That is the effort here, is it not? Why do we need the Utah legislature to commend a tiny fraction of a bigger group of people? There are literally thousands that aren't members of ANY group and do NOT attend the expo that contribute far more than the expo contributes itself. You and 1bI both complain of lousy results from our 76 million dollar annual investment yet after 20 years of beating their chests on top of every mountaintop and trying to take credit for actual successes owed to other groups, a few million dollars hasn't yielded a single fulfilled promise from the dear Don. And, captain doom and gloom, is there no mention of the thousands of those other folks who are contributing to wildlife in Utah. This is about as vain a crock of [email protected] as I've ever read. So go ahead and welcome it, then when those shouldering the majority of the fiscal share to keep wildlife in Utah toss in the proverbial white towel, I hope the wealthy land owners can somehow keep up statewide on habitat work that the division won't be able to afford to get done anymore.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm pretty sure Klbz if off his meds...

I'm supporting this because I LIKE seeing jobs in the hunting economy ...

It's very unfortunate the way jealousy runs so rampant amongst hunters
dividing them ..


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## ducknuts (Nov 24, 2008)

goofy elk I'm ALL FOR a long term commitment in this direction!
Looking forward to this bill passing..;).[/QUOTE said:


> Its not a bill its a *resolution* Its not something they can enforce but are statements or belief passed by a body to express a consensus of opinion or belief or what should be done.
> 
> Its just Blah Blah Blah


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

goofy elk said:


> I'm pretty sure Klbz if off his meds...
> 
> I'm supporting this because I LIKE seeing jobs in the hunting economy ...
> 
> ...


How did you know I didn't take my aspirin this morning? Awesome! Now I understand how you know the division is so stupid.

Sorry for so many questions, if you so chose to at least answer one, that'd be swell. It is not a bill so nothing will be passed, its merely exactly what has been stated here, propaganda blah. The sportsmen and women who have been putting "boots on the ground" and shouldering the weight of wildlife management in Utah have been doing it far longer than the 20 years this resolution suggests.

I don't mean to be so adversarial and I'm definitely not the jealous type but I'm going to go ahead and cop to being an opinionated jerk when it comes to such a blatant lack of common sense. Key word being "common".


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't remember seeing any other states supporting the Expo after about year two or three... and they don't support SFW either. Coincidence? Nope.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

The irony is priceless. Goofy calling out a misspelling.:mrgreen:


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

My personal opinion on the ad is that it proves the DWR of Utah has lost sight of what they should be promoting, supporting, and the job they're supposed to be acheiving. Money is what they're worried about, that's why SFW has so much power with the UDWR, and why they support things such as the expo that just make the rich, richer and slowly but surly get the average hunter to buy himself out of the system....literally. Counts are always up, success rates down, number of animals I see and many see go down? 

So what has SFW really given you Utah, a more money oriented DWR, buyouts of you're wildlife, and less opportunity for each and every one of us. I was on the fence about SFW thinking they were a good organizations, then you look into what their true goals are and although they do support and acheive some very good things in the past, present, and future, in the long run, Utah's wildlife will be bought out. Utah is turning hunting into only a rich mans sport, and it isn't something you should support. SFW started out as a great organizations, then money and greed have set them off track for now. 

klbzdad, ss, muleskinner, others who disagree with me, I think you can agree with me on this. And I hope that the big ad on the DWR's website saying support the expo, makes you question what the division really cares more about. That add to me says money and propaganda, not our states wildlife. You've got the division backing the expo, the $5 added to your tags for coyote control, and deer transplants. That's SFW, and that's money running your division.


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## cattlerancher (Jul 25, 2013)

As a land owner, I really appreciate the crappy comments from folks who have no idea how much work ranchers and farmers put into wildlife. I sure as hell am not wealthy and you sure as hell come across as a spoiled, jealous, clueless idiot klbzdad! Why don't you just stick to hunting public land where the blm and forest service have wildlife WAYYYYYYYYYY high on their list of things to get around to!:shock: Because if you even set foot on private ground you will become the world's biggest hypocrite!

I am not a SFW supporter and I do think the division has a lot of room for improvement. But until money doesn't matter in the world, money will talk. It does in healthcare, it does in the criminal system, it does in politics and it does in hunting. That same money that you despise pays for transplants, habitat improvement and countless other projects that benefit wildlife, WHICH THEN BENEFITS US ALL! As hunters, we cant keep being so dang divided. There is room for all of us at the table. But calling names and bitching sure doesn't get us far. Sorry for calling names, but being slandered isn't much fun.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

cattlerancher said:


> As a land owner, I really appreciate the crappy comments from folks who have no idea how much work ranchers and farmers put into wildlife. I sure as hell am not wealthy and you sure as hell come across as a spoiled, jealous, clueless idiot klbzdad! Why don't you just stick to hunting public land where the blm and forest service have wildlife WAYYYYYYYYYY high on their list of things to get around to!:shock: Because if you even set foot on private ground you will become the world's biggest hypocrite!
> 
> I am not a SFW supporter and I do think the division has a lot of room for improvement. But until money doesn't matter in the world, money will talk. It does in healthcare, it does in the criminal system, it does in politics and it does in hunting. That same money that you despise pays for transplants, habitat improvement and countless other projects that benefit wildlife, WHICH THEN BENEFITS US ALL! As hunters, we cant keep being so dang divided. There is room for all of us at the table. But calling names and bitching sure doesn't get us far. Sorry for calling names, but being slandered isn't much fun.


First off, if your not one of the people that are getting rich off of wildlife, thinking you own the WILD animals that cross your property lines, and having self entitlement to something that's everyones, then it is not you being talked about. Their are many arrogant land owners who believe they own the wildlife on their property, and think the public does not have a right to what is 100% for the public, our wildlife. Everyone has a right to them not just the select individuals who want money and tags as compensation from the state who want to take advantage of the system to get rich off of an asset that everyone has a right to, not just them. Utah farmers and ranchers sit around in a circle and have to find something to bitch about, many times that's the deer and elk that they have to share their property with for a few months out of the year, that boils my blood, but that's a different subject.

You're right, coming together would be best. But some of us, like groups such as SFW have lost sight of what the goals should be. That is why we will always be divided, because the love of money on one side, compared to the love of hunting and our wildlife on another, are two completely different views. Money is no what the DWR's goal should be, but it is what it is becoming.

Oh and as for transplants...... do you really think putting more deer in areas where populations can't grow naturally is going to help any? If the wild, native herd that is already there can't sustain itself and grow there is a bigger problem. All you're doing is moving deer to die somewhere else. TRANSPLANTING IS WORTHLESS. If you want to defend throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars away, entertain me, because in the end, unless you're a complete bafoon you'll talk yourself into realizing this too. They can keep that money and it would serve just as good of purpose for all I care. SFW IS NOTHING BUT PROPOGANDA. That's why they do transplants, that's why they spend money on things that make no sense at all. Good PR, means more membership, more media advertising, more DWR money hungry support, and in the end a lot more money for them. They know what they're doing as an organization that's why your DWR is turning into the Utah Division of SFW.

Oh and don't forget Utah has more public land than any other state, so ya public land is much more important to worry about than making some private land owners rich. I'm not saying that's you, but if you're the good side, you have to realize theres a bad side.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

1I I am speechless with your arrogance. Do realize what farmers/ranchers deal with in the winter months for YOUR wildlife, before your flap your lips.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

pheaz said:


> 1I I am speechless with your arrogance. Do realize what farmers/ranchers deal with in the winter months for YOUR wildlife, before your flap your lips.


I actually do understand. I deal with it as well.... Arrogance is thinking the wildlife have to share with their cattle and they don't have to share for a few months with the wildlife?


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

1 deer with the price of hay, most farmers can't afford to feed there own stock, little lone the PUBLICS wildlife. I will be more than happy to feed your wildlife if you want to boot the bill. With the future of droughts in the forecast it's just going to get worse. As for SFW atleast you can count on them to help boot the bill for 500+ elk. Don't ask RMEF or MDF cause you will just waste your time.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

I, not knowing was I was in for went to this Wildlife expo a couple years ago. I went thinking that I would be seeing the latest in hunting technology, hoping to see somethings like Outdoor edge knives, trail cams latest etc. Instead I saw 90% of the booths with hunts for sale, all over the US and the world. I think that the CWMU's do need some sort of venue to advertise their end of the bargain with the state. I guess I was just in shock to see how many people were there for hunts. I mean it was an eye opener for me how commercial hunting has really got for the general public. For me, drawing a general tag every year and going out and enjoying nature, the companionship of family and friends, is what hunting is all about. Filling the tag is our goal but not the only reason we are out there. Yes, everyone I go with would love to get a trophy and every year we hope someone we are with gets that lucky. Maybe it's just growing up this way that makes me think that even if we all win the lottery this year we won't be "over paying" for tags and contributing to the commercialization of hunting. The way that this expo does in my mind. I won't go again, just my two cents.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

pheaz said:


> 1 deer with the price of hay, most farmers can't afford to feed there own stock, little lone the PUBLICS wildlife. I will be more than happy to feed your wildlife if you want to boot the bill. With the future of droughts in the forecast it's just going to get worse. As for SFW atleast you can count on them to help boot the bill for 500+ elk. Don't ask RMEF or MDF cause you will just waste your time.


Yes I am well aware of the price of hay, I buy quite a bit yearly, I've also had deer eat off of my haystack and it never ended up hurting my bottom dollar or making it so I couldn't feed my cows. I also have never had deer eat enough jay or corn growth to really hurt me either. Yet I see people bitch and moan and blame wildlife because they have nothing better to do. Resident deer that stay all year can be a problem, but the deer and elk that are there for the winter should not have to be compensated for, and the farmers should be fine with sharing their property with our wildlife in their most critical time of year. Don't try to lecture me on wildlife in the farming and ranching community.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

cattlerancher said:


> As a land owner, I really appreciate the crappy comments from folks who have no idea how much work ranchers and farmers put into wildlife. I sure as hell am not wealthy and you sure as hell come across as a spoiled, jealous, clueless idiot klbzdad! Why don't you just stick to hunting public land where the blm and forest service have wildlife WAYYYYYYYYYY high on their list of things to get around to!:shock: Because if you even set foot on private ground you will become the world's biggest hypocrite!
> 
> I am not a SFW supporter and I do think the division has a lot of room for improvement. But until money doesn't matter in the world, money will talk. It does in healthcare, it does in the criminal system, it does in politics and it does in hunting. That same money that you despise pays for transplants, habitat improvement and countless other projects that benefit wildlife, WHICH THEN BENEFITS US ALL! As hunters, we cant keep being so dang divided. There is room for all of us at the table. But calling names and bitching sure doesn't get us far. Sorry for calling names, but being slandered isn't much fun.


Clueless....right. You might look up the word "slander" before you call someone else an idiot.

I have a full understanding and knowledge of the investment that ranchers and farmers have when it comes to livestock that then benefits wildlife. I'm not going to debate those merits with anyone. One of the men I respect most in this world happens to have a large farm and raises some of the priciest cattle on God's earth. Yet, somehow, he never complains when we go out there to watch deer on his property. He's also never taken a single mitigation payment or money from the state for anything that wildlife might have done. In his words, "they were here first, the least I can do is feed them."


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

It is truly funny to me every time I hear cattlemen complain about wintering public wildlife on their land and having to feed them, considering the public just got done feeding their cattle for the entire year... 

I have a proposal for all cattlemen in the state. We, as the state, pay to have high fences put around your private property to keep the "public wildlife" out, but in return, that same fence keeps your livestock in and you no longer get to use PUBLIC lands to trample and feed them all year. What cattleman will agree to that? Seems like a good deal since you can't afford to feed the public wildlife during the winter. Put your money where your mouth is...or shut it. Either way, I think it's time for some of these ranchers to see how good they really have it with public lands and public subsidies. There is a trade off here. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

pheaz said:


> 1 deer with the price of hay, most farmers can't afford to feed there own stock, little lone the PUBLICS wildlife. I will be more than happy to feed your wildlife if you want to boot the bill. With the future of droughts in the forecast it's just going to get worse. As for SFW atleast you can count on them to help boot the bill for 500+ elk. Don't ask RMEF or MDF cause you will just waste your time.


You mean SFW makes hundreds of thousands on the elk and actually uses some of that money to help them? Are you kidding pheaz, SFW owes that and more , they become rich because of the wildlife , they **** sure better have a bill or two to pay in return for what brought them their crooked riches.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

pheaz said:


> 1I I am speechless with your arrogance. Do realize what farmers/ranchers deal with in the winter months for YOUR wildlife, before your flap your lips.


You know what they say about arguing with an idiot. One eye is their king.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

TS30 said:


> It is truly funny to me every time I hear cattlemen complain about wintering public wildlife on their land and having to feed them, considering the public just got done feeding their cattle for the entire year...
> .


WTF,?. You think those cattle are grazzing public ground for free?
NOT! Graze permits required for EVERY SINGLE live stock animal om FS or BLM.

Cattle ranchers do more improvments to public ground to water supplys
and fenceing than every other group put together !!!!!!!!!

And another fact some of you better concider. Private land owners,
cattle ranchers/farmers/sheep herders CAN DISTORY wild life
legaly when wildlife in on their private ground feeding crops or feed storage.
Then simply call the DWR to remove dead wild life ....

Is this really the road some of you want to travel?
Bad mouth the ag groups, get them kicked off public, and see what happens.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> WTF,?. You think those cattle are grazzing public ground for free?
> NOT! Graze permits required for EVERY SINGLE live stock animal om FS or BLM.
> 
> Cattle ranchers do more improvments to public ground to water supplys
> ...


how much do they pay for those permits and what would the difference in cost be if they had to pay for their own feed on their own lands? How would the potential savings compare to winter feed losses/costs by wildlife? That's an honest question I'm asking, I have no clue.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> how much do they pay for those permits and what would the difference in cost be if they had to pay for their own feed on their own lands? How would the potential savings compare to winter feed losses/costs by wildlife? That's an honest question I'm asking, I have no clue.


I believe it's about 16-17 dollars per head, per month.

BUT, THE BIGGER ISSUE,
For many, many AG guys, they have to have somewere for their
animals to go for the summer while they work agriculure grounds ...

Forcing live stock of public grounds would put , possibly, a majority
of AG guys out of business-----NOT what anyone would like to see.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

martymcfly73 said:


> You know what they say about arguing with an idiot. One eye is their king.


True Marty, I just thought that possibly after TGP experience that just maybe. Ah never mind some things never change.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I believe it's about 16-17 dollars per head, per month.
> 
> BUT, THE BIGGER ISSUE,
> For many, many AG guys, they have to have somewere for their
> ...


Id drop that price to about $5-7 and change that per pair. It is far cheaper to let your cattle roam public land and utilize private for hay. Many farmers wouldn't survive without public land , so sorry not whining about wild animals staying at their place for a few months that eat far less and cost far less, shouldn't be the issue.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

pheaz said:


> True Marty, I just thought that possibly after TGP experience that just maybe. Ah never mind some things never change.


You're right some things never change. And some people never pull their head out of their ass and actually say what they think. I don't tip toe to not piss people off .


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Is this really the road some of you want to travel?
> Bad mouth the ag groups, get them kicked off public, and see what happens.


You answered what would happen in your following post...



goofy elk said:


> BUT, THE BIGGER ISSUE,
> For many, many AG guys, they have to have somewere for their
> animals to go for the summer while they work agriculure grounds ...
> 
> ...


I'm not saying this is what I want to happen. What I want to happen is for the ranching community to stop complaining about wintering wildlife. And quite frankly, to quit acting like victims of "public wildlife" and acting like they are carrying this burden for everyone. Those permits you cite are pennies on the dollar, and you know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. That is why, as you aptly stated, if they weren't allowed to do that, they would go out of business. They benefit *HUGELY* from the public dime and resources. We are all in this together. There is a partnership that works where private landowners get to benefit from public monies and resources, and in turn, wildlife comes down that as you pointed aptly again, can be killed anyway.

So my question is this: Why are the private landowners complaining about wintering wildlife again? I didn't bring that issue up. I'm just pointing out FACTS as to why those complaining about that should stop complaining and move along.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Cattle ranchers do more improvments to public ground to water supplys
> and fenceing than every other group put together !!!!!!!!!


After their livestock has already caused the damage. Hence, why the fences and improvements are needed in the first place.

Of course, that is a broad sweeping statement and doesn't apply to all livestock operations. But a large number of them...it is 100% true.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

TS30 said:


> After their livestock has already caused the damage. Hence, why the fences and improvements are needed in the first place.
> 
> Of course, that is a broad sweeping statement and doesn't apply to all livestock operations. But a large number of them...it is 100% true.


Yes, let's not forget how much damage a cow can do to a fence. I've had bulls go right through the most sturdy of fences and they just tear them down and break whatever the hell they have to to get where there going.

Also the water sources lets not forget how the cows turn it into a dust bowl with no vegetation around them and polluting them with **** and piss. Oh then there's all the lovely dead cows on the mountains, don't they smell so nice and aren't they a great viewing opportunity? Why should the DWR have to remove dead animals from private land if cattle owners won't remove their carcasses from public lands. It's a two way streak goofy, cattlemen and farmers need public land just as much and more than wildlife need private land. Cattle do plenty of damage to public land and the things on public land, guess who fixes and repairs a lot of that? Dedicated hunters and sportsman groups, they also pay for and create many water sources for cattle. So don't paint a picture where cattlemen are picked on and they have all the ground to stand on. There cattle cost public land much more than wildlife will ever cost them, but they don't have to pay for it do they, and then they want to be compensated for every deer or elk on their property.Many are whine ass hypocritical folks who need to find better things to fill their time with than bitching.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

So what compensation does a farmer get that does not use public resources?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Farmers don't use public resources? Ever heard of subsidies?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

What compensation do farmers give wildlife that run their cattle on the mountain all year long, leave them later than there supposed to and take over-advantage of the situation? I've never seen many of those cattle boys looking to spend money on wildlife areas they've damaged, water sources they've polluted for wildlife, or land that's been grazed to nothing.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm not talking about ranchers that run the mtns into dirt pastures. The private rancher that only uses his personal owned ground/water/crop etc etc. The ones that have resident deer, and wintering deer and elk.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Many are whine ass hypocritical folks who need to find better things to fill their time with than bitching.


:shock::shock:, I-I, Go find a mirror, have a look-------------


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> :shock::shock:, I-I, Go find a mirror, have a look-------------


There's no point in pointing out good things in a place like this, that doesn't get any fun conversation going.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I can't speak for all land owners but I manage 2 small ranches and a small farm for my wife's family. One ranch that has a couple of ponds and several springs feed all animals including cattle, except for one secluded spring that the elk turn into a wallow in the spring, I have fenced that so the cattle can't get into it but the elk love it. The cattle can still drink the flow out of the fenced area.

The other ranch was feeding that 34 inch 7x13 buck that was poached in Shirts canyon along with a lot of his does and fawns during part of the year. It also feeds elk and lions and other critters.

The farm has a small resident herd of deer and elk have watered at that pond also.

And this guy lived in my garden one winter till he was hit on the interstate.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

bowgy said:


> I can't speak for all land owners but I manage 2 small ranches and a small farm for my wife's family. One ranch that has a couple of ponds and several springs feed all animals including cattle, except for one secluded spring that the elk turn into a wallow in the spring, I have fenced that so the cattle can't get into it but the elk love it. The cattle can still drink the flow out of the fenced area.
> 
> The other ranch was feeding that 34 inch 7x13 buck that was poached in Shirts canyon along with a lot of his does and fawns during part of the year. It also feeds elk and lions and other critters.
> 
> The farm has a small resident herd of deer and elk have watered at that pond also.


Thanks for being a great landowner.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

pheaz said:


> 1 deer with the price of hay, most farmers can't afford to feed there own stock, little lone the PUBLICS wildlife. I will be more than happy to feed your wildlife if you want to boot the bill. With the future of droughts in the forecast it's just going to get worse. As for SFW atleast you can count on them to help boot the bill for 500+ elk. Don't ask RMEF or MDF cause you will just waste your time.


Please tell me you're not making reference to Hardware Ranch. As a member, I can always count on RMEF to step up. The problem lies with the fact that they don't do it for self appreciating purpose and only if the investment is fiscally sound for wildlife and/or habitat. Take a look at RMEF numbers in the state and look at their books, there is no comparison between sfw and RMEF. Period.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

bowgy said:


> I can't speak for all land owners but I manage 2 small ranches and a small farm for my wife's family. One ranch that has a couple of ponds and several springs feed all animals including cattle, except for one secluded spring that the elk turn into a wallow in the spring, I have fenced that so the cattle can't get into it but the elk love it. The cattle can still drink the flow out of the fenced area.
> 
> The other ranch was feeding that 34 inch 7x13 buck that was poached in Shirts canyon along with a lot of his does and fawns during part of the year. It also feeds elk and lions and other critters.
> 
> ...


That is very familiar area to me. There are in dead some great landowners/managers in our area who don't complain much about the wildlife and I guess that makes the southern region so great.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Thanks for being a great landowner.


No problem the deer were there long before our family had it. I love the seeing all the animals on there even if I can't harvest one every year.

WoooHoo top of page


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

klbzdad said:


> Please tell me you're not making reference to Hardware Ranch. As a member, I can always count on RMEF to step up. The problem lies with the fact that they don't do it for self appreciating purpose and only if the investment is fiscally sound for wildlife and/or habitat. Take a look at RMEF numbers in the state and look at their books, there is no comparison between sfw and RMEF. Period.


Nah there's no Hardware Ranch in Heber. But 5 years ago it felt and looked like Hardware Ranch in my backyard. 500 head of elk with no where to go or nothin to eat. The local guys wrote a letter to DWR given them 48 hrs. Let's just say the division did not answer but SFW and Wolf Creek ranches did. RMEF could of gave a chit less. But then again they lost a few members that called lookin for donations. At least MDF ponied up some cash to help with the deer. Even the turkey boys kicked in a little. But RMEF not one red cent. As for there is no comparison between SFW and RMEF I agree seen it first hand.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> That is very familiar area to me. There are in dead some great landowners/managers in our area who don't complain much about the wildlife and I guess that makes the southern region so great.


Yes, I think most of the landowners are hunters as well, however the land is not my main business so it is not our livelihood so some may have more of a dire outlook on the deer eating their hay. However I look at it as they were there first and they just do what they need to to survive, and it is sort of like putting a candy dish in the middle of a kindergarten room and expecting the kids not to touch the candy. I encroached into their home so I owe them something.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

bowgy said:


> Yes, I think most of the landowners are hunters as well, however the land is not my main business so it is not our livelihood so some may have more of a dire outlook on the deer eating their hay. However I look at it as they were there first and they just do what they need to to survive, and it is sort of like putting a candy dish in the middle of a kindergarten room and expecting the kids not to touch the candy. I encroached into their home so I owe them something.


I wish all landowners could understand this the same way you do.


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## delement87 (Sep 18, 2012)

at the expo are products sold cheaper or at the same price you could get them online or in stores? looking for a spotting scope and im curious to know if i can buy one cheaper there and save some $$$


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

delement87 said:


> at the expo are products sold cheaper or at the same price you could get them online or in stores? looking for a spotting scope and im curious to know if i can buy one cheaper there and save some $$$


Good luck finding any of that stuff there.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

delement87 said:


> at the expo are products sold cheaper or at the same price you could get them online or in stores? looking for a spotting scope and im curious to know if i can buy one cheaper there and save some $$$


I believe they throw in a free spotting scope with the antelope island auction tag. So I'd just wait for that, but make sure they throw in a warranty or else it probably wouldn't be worth it in my opinion.


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## cattlerancher (Jul 25, 2013)

TS30 said:


> It is truly funny to me every time I hear cattlemen complain about wintering public wildlife on their land and having to feed them, considering the public just got done feeding their cattle for the entire year...
> 
> I have a proposal for all cattlemen in the state. We, as the state, pay to have high fences put around your private property to keep the "public wildlife" out, but in return, that same fence keeps your livestock in and you no longer get to use PUBLIC lands to trample and feed them all year. What cattleman will agree to that? Seems like a good deal since you can't afford to feed the public wildlife during the winter. Put your money where your mouth is...or shut it. Either way, I think it's time for some of these ranchers to see how good they really have it with public lands and public subsidies. There is a trade off here. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


 I OWN a grazing right on public land. Our family has owned this right since the Taylor grazing act in the 1930's. Way before any division of wildlife was thought of. We are careful stewards of our private land and public grazing allotments. We pay a fee or a tax per AUM on public land grazing but we OWN the right to graze just like you may own a water right or mineral right. So don't tell me I cannot graze public land. And I don't receive a single subsidy. For you to imply I am getting away with something for grazing public land is laughable. Our family has ranched in Utah since 1859. I am amazed how somebody trys to tell ranchers where we can graze without knowing the actual facts. It really makes you look silly.:-?

I have fed wildlife YEAR ROUND on my private land for as long as I have owned it. I am a avid hunter and I love wildlife. And I have NEVER complained about YOUR wildlife on my private land. Speaking of money, how many water developments have you built for cattle that water deer, elk, chuckars, and countless other wildlife? How many hundreds of pounds of seed have you bought and planted that feed wildlife year round?
How many juniper removal projects have you paid for that benefit wildlife? How many tons of hay have you donated during tough winters? I'll bet you a lot of money it's pennies on the dollar stacked up against what we have done. That isn't said as bragging either. It's simply an attempt to get your eyes opened some.;-) I am done arguing with ya'll. I attempted to provide another side to a story some of ya'll might not of seen and apparently I failed. But I will leave you with this......If landowners and ranchers are so **** evil and greedy, kindly explain how white tailed deer have exploded back east? They went from almost being wiped out to one of the greatest conservation stories of this century. And this mostly happened east of the Mississippi river where public land is rare. Our west where public land managed by the feds makes up over 50% of most states mule deer are struggling. A coincidence? HARDLY! Sorry if I offended ya or any one else. I happen to run cows and love to hunt. Guess that makes me the bad guy. Such is life. Have a fine evening. I had hoped to make it to 10 posts on this website. But just like monster mulies, it aint gonna happen.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Cattle,

You completely missed the point. Go back and re-read all the posts. If you are doing the things you say, I tip my hat to you. There are many like you that understand their stewardship. Wish you guys would rub off on others...


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

KSL's in on it now, DIG THESE BUCKs!

Best artical I've ever seen for KSL:

Photos: 7 of the highest scoring Utah mule deer killed by bow since 2010​
Read more at http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1288&sid=28611113#Mt3HvyJF2PofF4Yo.99​


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

http://americansportsmanexpo.com/

Here's an online expo that is affiliated with the MDF and the NWTF for those of you who like expos.


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