# Training Books



## BugBuilder (Oct 17, 2007)

What are everyone's thoughts or opinions on training books/DVD's etc? 

Do you prefer Evan Graham or Richard Wolter's? Who are some other authors would you recommend. 

I am about a year away from getting another dog, and I want to start reading and learning to train my own. 

Thanks,
BugBuilder


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

I know Evan is popular among people here in Utah, but I am a bigger fan of Mike Lardy. His record's and what he has done in the trial world are just incredible. His program is called Total Retriever, the book's and video's cost more then most, but it's well worth it. His website is http://www.totalretriever.com


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

If you don't care about the whole field trial thing and want a good all around hunting and family dog, I suggest the book and DVD called Game Dog by Richard Wolters.


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## Steve Shaver (Mar 9, 2008)

blackdog said:


> If you don't care about the whole field trial thing and want a good all around hunting and family dog, I suggest the book and DVD called Game Dog by Richard Wolters.


Field trial, hunt tests or gun dog it matters not. If you want a GOOD dog the basic training is all the same, or it should be. Field trial dogs just go far and above gun dog training.
No matter what Wolters stuff is the bottom of the barrel. Out dated by 20 years or more.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Steve Shaver said:


> No matter what Wolters stuff is the bottom of the barrel. Out dated by 20 years or more.


What ever. It still works for me. But what do I know, I don't give a rats a$$ about pretty little blue ribbons all I care about is hunting.

So Mr. Moosehead, The guy asked for suggestions on DVDs and books, You're the professional, what do you suggest?


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

o-||


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## BugBuilder (Oct 17, 2007)

Before this gets too exciting I will step in. Everybody has been very helpful in giving their thoughts on this. 
Steve gave me some sound advice on another forum, which I appreciate. 

Ironman, I hope this didn't ruin your entertainment. I just get tired of posts getting out of hand. 

BugBuilder


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## Steve Shaver (Mar 9, 2008)

blackdog said:


> Steve Shaver said:
> 
> 
> > No matter what Wolters stuff is the bottom of the barrel. Out dated by 20 years or more.
> ...


 :shock: :roll: Put away the popcorn Ironman. Good thing I didnt reply when I first saw this post.
Blackdog, I sense a deep seated hostility towards higher education in the retriever world. 
I didnt suggest other material because others did. I just pointed out the one not to use if given a choice. I read and used Wolters books, when I was 12 and that was a loooong time ago. From what I hear from people that knew him Richard Wolters was a great guy and was good with his dogs but his theories and methods have long since been improved upon. Ok I suggest Lardy for advanced stuff. Evan Graham's stuff for the serious beginner and also Training retrievers for Marshes and Meadows by James B Spencer. Also DVD's by Danny Farmer and Judy Ay****.
Maybe you dont care about pretty blue ribbons and that's your choice. If you want to stay in kindergarten instead of progressing to a higher level then again that's your choice. Hunting season last a few short months, after that some of us still like to have things to do with our dogs so we play the retriever games which in turn makes our retrievers a far better hunting dog than they were. So if you want to stay at the T-ball level and your happy with that more power to ya. Obviously you have no idea what these dogs are capable of and no idea how to get them there but don't give me any S#!^ for wanting more. Man I'd really like to see your dog work.
Just for Ironmans entertainment the only thing that would make Blackdogs post worse is if he has a conformation dog on top of his attitude.
For others that dont have acess to it here is a copy of PM sent to Blackdog: ^&%( UYT
Oh and one more thing. If you had a well trained dog you could have sent him to scare off the geese that someone else was stalking instead of jumping the fence and running down there to do it yourself. (this comes from a post on the waterfowl forum)


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Settle down before you give yourself an ulcer. As far as your PM, back at ya.

First off, I just threw out a suggestion that works for me. You're the one who came on here and started bad mouthing some old man who may or may not be dead and or me without suggesting anything yourself.

Second, In no way did I say anything negative about Field trialers. I said if he just wanted a good hunting and family dog then Wolters book was a good one. Meaning if he wanted to run his dog in competitions maybe he should not use that book.

Nice job digging up something from a year ago.



Steve Shaver said:


> For others that dont have acess to it here is a copy of PM sent to Blackdog: ^&%( UYT


 WTF is that?

I'm done. I'm going to go chase Sharptails and Huns around in the rain and snow this weekend with my bottom of the barrel kindergarten trained dog. Peace out.


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

This is good. 
I think blackdog ought to bring his "kindergarten" dog out next spring to the hunt tests. I'd love to see Steve eat his words when the dog passes following old school Wolters, all the better if it's from conformation lines, but that's another issue. So, if you haven't already, I'm inviting you to come on out and join in the off season fun, the local retriever clubs could use some new blood with more non-conformist thinking, keeps things fresh and interesting.


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## FetchExpress (Oct 29, 2007)

I would recommend "the 10 minute retriever" by john and AMy Dahl.

Evan Graham is also a good place to start!

Good luck!


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## horseman (Jul 23, 2008)

Bugbuilder i would like to throw in my two cents. I have never, ever trained a retriever. But what I do know is that if you want to be well rounded in training any animal, what you need to do is listen to EVERYONE. Take some advice and use it and let some of it just pass you by. I am sure everyone that has trained an animal of any kind would agree with this. I have trained horses as you know for a number of years. When I started I watched every video I could get my hands on, some were terrible and some were great. But I watched them all. You will pick up little things that will help from all of them. I will say that I agree with labradawg in principle, the people who are winning in the performance events will usually have better info in them. During the training process you will be able to pick up on subtle things that they do that will help you out. One more thing I will say that everyone here may or may not agree with is. Look at the pedigree of your dog and see if there is a consistant person winning with these kinds of dogs. If there is see if you can get information from that person. If they have made a video or wrote a book by all means read it. But my advice is to listen to everyones advice. From professional to moron. Heck your reading this arent you.


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## Steve Shaver (Mar 9, 2008)

Great advice Horseman.
I guess maybe I should apologize to Blackdog if he thought I was slaming his suggestion :roll: . That surely was not my intention. I guess the way I stated it sounded a little inflamatory. It's just that out of all the material out there Wolters stuff would be the last one I would use. In fact as I stated I have used it but knowing what I know now I would not. Just trying to help a guy weed through what he doesnt need based on m past experience.
I seem to get in trouble once in awhile on these boards. I guess I should just read and keep my mouth shut. Just addicted to dogs and everything related.


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## horseman (Jul 23, 2008)

Sorry for calling you labradawg on this forum Steve, I know bugbuilder pretty well and he is a very smart and capable guy. I agree with you on all the things you said. I really want to try and come out and see your dogs work sometime this week if I can get away. I have your number and I will call you and see if it will work out. By the way bugbuilder Steve was the pro I was refering to and I was the moron!


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Steve Shaver said:


> .....I guess I should just read and keep my mouth shut.....


Come on Steve, where is the fun in that!? We need someone to give us controversial fodder for discussion.

horseman, good post.


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## BugBuilder (Oct 17, 2007)

horseman said:


> I know bugbuilder pretty well and he is a very smart and capable guy. quote]
> Boy have I got you fooled! :shock:
> Thanks for the advice, is sound pretty logical.
> 
> ...


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