# Lance Armstrong Stripped of Titles



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21834089&ni...-erases-lance-armstrongs-titles&s_cid=queue-4

Give me a break :roll:

For years his results have come back clean. Let me re-iterate CLEAN

People make allegations all the time that dont turn out to be true. I find it interesting the people are taking his decision to no longer challenge the USADA as an admission of guilt. But come on, how long can you put up with being under scrutiny before you just throw your hands up and walk away? It sounds to me like someone has a personal vendetta against the guy and wants to wreak havoc on his name.

I still like Lance Armstrong, he really inspired a lot of people to persevere no matter how hard the obstacle.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

I agree with you Bax, this is a disgrace. He never failed a test yet they kept accusing him. To everyone else he'll still be the 7 tour de france in a row winner! But maybe most important he his someone everyone can look to as a source of strength.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I have a ton of admiration for Lance Armstrong. That said I have always thought that he was doping. So many were and he was known to by his team and his peers. Does this mean he did? No? Does the fact that he never tested positive mean that he was clean? No.

To me it really doesn't take away from what he has accomplished. It never has. PED's have been a BIG part of our culture, all the way down to high school athletics.

One thing that I have always found funny is that people view Barry Bonds accomplishments differently than Armstrong's. Bonds never tested positive either but since he is viewed as being aloof his accomplishments in the eye of the public are more tainted it seems.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I believe Bonds and McGwire and Sosa (and many others) did steroids. I also believe Lance Armstrong doped. HGH is an important part of the platelet rich plasma replacement process that many cancer patients have done. The growth hormone stimulates new cellular growth after everything is destroyed by radiation. I am certain that HGH was part of Armstrong's recovery process. My dad has been through cancer three times now and we dang near lost him this last time. I thank God every day for the medical miracle that is blood doping. 
To say that Armstrong continued to dope after being fully recovered is another thing altogether. I think he did so and I feel no loss of respect for Armstrong if he did. Everyone who was anyone in cycling has basically admitted to doping or having seen doping going on in the sport. The playing field was level. Armstrong came back from frickin' cancer to win the Tour de France 7 times. That is an unfathomable achievement and Armstrong gets my utmost respect no matter how he did it.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

ditto


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Great insight BirdDogger. I suspected that any PEDs that Armstrong may have possibly used would have been associated with his cancer recovery but am very uneducated on the topic and didnt want to blab about something that I knew nothing about.

Also, you bring up a great point about so many of the players using various PEDs that it almost was requisite to level the playing field. I honestly hadnt thought of that.

Good thinkin Lincoln 8)


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Bonds wasn't tested more than 500 times. Or before and after every game he played. Armstrong was.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Agreed Gary but fact remains that he has never tested positive either and people have called to have him banned from the sport. I am a big fan Armstrong. Always have been, always will be but it doesn't mean that I have to be blind or turn a deaf ear to the many people that were very close to him that have spoken out about his use of PED's.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I took a sports psych class in college 10 years ago, the professor was a big time cyclist, and we covered a lot of doping in different sports and I had no idea how big doping was in cycling. Biggest doping sport there is, guys dropping dead while racing cause of the stuff they were injecting, and you wouldn't believe what these guys can do to mask drug tests, absolutely unbelievable. and it does take a lot for former teammates to want to come forward and "slander" an individual, especially a hero like Lance. Pretty much everyone in that sport was doping and many still are. So I believe it was a pretty level playing field and not much competitive edge gained. Lance has done an amazing job working his tail off to train and win and he made that sport more popular, people took up cycling, inspired people to get in better shape, more cancer awareness, and raised millions for charity. So I could careless about the doping charges with all the good that he's done even if he used PED's, which I believe he did. and Most people don't care that he used either. But cycling purists, competition boards, racing sponsors and drug agencies do however want to clean the sport up. and they felt they had overwhelming evidence that he had been cheating. and Lance probably didn't want all of that evidence to come to light in a trial.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I see a few things though. First, as much as he was tested, and never got caught/tested positive, then that seems to indite the anti-doping agency for their own inability to discover anything. I mean - after more than 500 tests and not one found anything? Second, what is to gain by going after a guy that has retired? He is no longer relevant. Which leads me to this - teammates and competitors that are claiming Armstrong doped - they are the ones gaining press from this. Where were they when it was happening? 

With Bonds - you have to remember that baseball didn't have testing until after Bonds was done with the core surge of his career. Mandatory testing was a HUGE part of why the '94 season fell apart and they cancelled the world series. The players absolutely refused the testing and went to the mat over it. It was a decade later that mandatory testing became part of baseball. And baseball didn't have a banned substance list either. So if you get down to it, PEDs of that time were controlled prescription medications, and were legal to administer under the direction of an M.D. Granted, many athletes abused them for reason far beyond the core pharmaceutical application. And there are always doctors ready to sign a prescription for pretty much anything. But that is another issue.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I think there were a couple questions on some tests being delayed but who knows why and doesn't prove one thing or the other. But its not just as simple as never having a positive test or one being inconclusive. These guys dope and take things to mask it and take practice tests over and over to be prepared. Don't even get started with clean urine tests where these guys insert a condom filled with a clean sample into a naughty place and use a tube and so on and so forth "which might be too graphic" in order to pass a test. So the people pushing the new drugs are always one step ahead of testing, it can be tough on these agencies working against that kinda devious behavior with little cooperation from the cyclying community. Also when his teammates were doping, they sure weren't gonna come out and say anything. Most athletes come out after they're done, you see that with retired baseball players with steroids, they made their money and now they can speak out against it. pretty cowardly I agree. 

But think about this from a logical financial point and reputation standpoint, Lance is smart. He knows if he comes out and fights this and loses than he loses big sponsor money and potential large attorney fees, roger clemens knows that. Lance still makes money on endorsments, movie appearances, books, and so on. He became a huge celebrity and likes being around that hollywood crowd and enjoys being loved and seen as a hero, who wouldn't. He wants to continue to have a nice amount of income the rest of his life and suing and fighting this and losing, brings to light all of the evidence, possible perjury, and potentially new evidence. That would ruin his image and a lot of fans would turn on him, he'd lose sponsors, and so on and take a huge hit. That's why a quick lawsuit to try and get this thing thrown out was pretty calculated, he knew it wouldn't work but it looks like he fought a little and claims witch hunt, and a lot of that evidence or new evidence won't be seen. Heck, they might have even shown him some new evidence and told him to drop it or else. But with the move he made, most of his followers will still believe him and sponsors and future endorsers will see that he still has a big fan base and will continue to pay him. It's frustrating being a lance admirer and seeing him give up, I personally like him and think he's been an inspiration to many. Some lance fans and broadcasters summed it up with, "Lance isn't a quiter, he beat cancer, the toughest fight there is. If he was innocent he would've at least fought this and beat it and would've recooped all of those attorney fees if he won through even more support and endorsments and fan love." whether that's a fair point to make or say is open to your own opinion, might be a little harsh on him but sometimes that's what people expect of their hero's. I could careless if he used or follows through with fighting it,, He's done a lot of good. Just don't put the blinders on when it comes to trusting athletes. There's obviously enough out there and more than hear say in order to ban him for life and strip his 7 wins. takes a lot to do that.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Very good points. Very good.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I'm bumping this! At least it's now official for all the lance believers on here who thought it was a witch hunt. Apparently armstrong confessed yesterday and it will be aired thursday on Oprah of all choices. So I won't rub it in and say I told ya so but I am shocked he confessed, I am interested to see how the confession was worded. He might be in some big time legal trouble. All the sponsors who paid bonuses for the tour wins and such, might want to get some of that back.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I haven't heard or viewed the confession, but word on the street is that even in coming clean he comes across as a liar.

They say he wants to come clean so he can participate in triathlons and running events. I wouldn't care to watch him compete or know the results of these events now. Power to him if he can get back into competition and participate according to the rules--but even then his reputation is so tarnished, I wonder if anyone would believe the outcomes.

Who knows maybe Oprah paid him big bucks to do the confession on her show.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I use to give armstrong a pass on doping because of the good he's done for the cancer fight. But the more I listen to old interviews and all the allegations of how much of a BULLY armstrong was to others for fear of them outting his doping, just makes me think he's really a bad bad bad dude. Not just the doping/lying about it but how he'd go out of his way to ruin others who might expose him.


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