# Open Carry on Archery Hunts?



## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

Every summer you hear about all these pot farms that hunters are stumbling on to. I know it is not legal to open carry a firearm without a concealed carry permit on the archery. But man, if you run into one of the guys running the farm I guarantee he is going to be strapped and not hesitate to shoot you. It sure would be nice to have something to shoot back with other than a bow. I guess one answer would be to get your permit. But that can turn into a hassle sometimes. What do you guys think?


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

I haven't had money for the class and a hand gun so I haven't really looked into getting my CCP. So.... 

As an honest question, how is it a hassle?


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## Gaston (Dec 6, 2008)

I carry a pistol on the archery hunt more for bear abatement then for pot growers, But I've seen both on the mountain. More scared of the bears. the suspected pot growers i seen were hippies. Well worth haveing a CCP.


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

willfish4food said:


> I haven't had money for the class and a hand gun so I haven't really looked into getting my CCP. So....
> 
> As an honest question, how is it a hassle?


Well I guess it's not that big of a hassle. You just got to find time to do the class, find an extra 150 bucks, mail your paper work in and wait a couple months to hear if you got approved. Just make sure you have absolutely no violations. I know a dude that got a parking ticket a couple days before he sent his paperwork in and didnt take care of it before they processed his application. He got denied for having not paid for the ticket. And then had to pay for the ticket and resend his app with another 65 bucks that is non refundable.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks CD I guess I'll have to keep that in mind when I've got the money. I'm hoping to get it soonish (within the next year or two). I'd carry it for bears and I guess the pot heads too.


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

Gaston said:


> I carry a pistol on the archery hunt more for bear abatement then for pot growers, But I've seen both on the mountain. More scared of the bears. the suspected pot growers i seen were hippies. Well worth haveing a CCP.


I wouldnt mind running into a hippie. Hell I wouldnt even turn him in. But I dout that hippies are running these multi million dollar pot farms.


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## Gaston (Dec 6, 2008)

We had the discussion this year at bow camp...what we would do if we came across a growing operation...all of the burnouts that I hunt with said that they would fill up their backpacks with tastey buds and take there chances.


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

Hahaha.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

If any of you are college students, school teachers or retired law enforcement...the guys at Fuzzy Bunny Machine Gun were offering the class to you for free, I took it from them at Cabela's. Only thing I had to pay for are the fees and picture.

As for packing on the bow hunt, I always pack...not for the hippies or pot heads but more for the bears and cougars..just in case.


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## wapiti67 (Oct 2, 2007)

I carry for the Bears, the pot growers and the guides that block the roads... :roll:


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## snobiller22 (Sep 25, 2007)

CCP or CFP????? :lol: :lol: 

Anyway, so if you have a CFP you can carry on your hip or does it still have to be concealed? I know a couple guys that carry for the bears and have their CFP, but didn't know if you could carry just on your hip or if it has to be concealed.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

wapiti67 said:


> I carry for the Bears, the pot growers and the guides that block the roads... :roll:


I guess it all depends on how big their mullet is.


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## MudInBlood (Apr 10, 2008)

snobiller22 said:


> CCP or CFP????? :lol: :lol:
> 
> Anyway, so if you have a CFP you can carry on your hip or does it still have to be concealed? I know a couple guys that carry for the bears and have their CFP, but didn't know if you could carry just on your hip or if it has to be concealed.


I thought it had to be concealed if you had CCP. Does anyone know for sure? I have always carried concealed on the bowhunt, but it would be nice if it didn't have to be concealed. 
Also, how do you carry concealed on the bowhunt? I have a dilemma because I have been wearing it on my hip, but if I ever needed it I would have to unbuckle my backpack before I could access my gun, which slows me down and almost defeats the purpose doesn't it? I've thought a shoulder holster would work good. I would wear it under a button up shirt and if needed I could access it through the buttons on the shirt, which I think would be quicker than wearing it on my hip. I think the shoulder holster would put it on my side out of the way of my backpack straps and the backpack itself.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

> I thought it had to be concealed if you had CCP. Does anyone know for sure?


A Concealed Firearm Permit simply exempts you from many weapons laws (ie. carrying a loaded gun and carrying a concealed gun). It does not place any new restrictions on you. Therefore, open carry is perfectly legal with a CFP (since open carry is legal in Utah), both in the mountains and on the streets of any city/town in the state of Utah.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

if just a bow and arrow was good enough for Burt Reynolds in _Deliverance_ then just a bow and arrow is good enough for me...


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## JedInUtah (Sep 10, 2007)

archerben said:


> > I thought it had to be concealed if you had CCP. Does anyone know for sure?
> 
> 
> A Concealed Firearm Permit simply exempts you from many weapons laws (ie. carrying a loaded gun and carrying a concealed gun). It does not place any new restrictions on you. Therefore, open carry is perfectly legal with a CFP (since open carry is legal in Utah), both in the mountains and on the streets of any city/town in the state of Utah.


As stated above.....you are able to open carry without a CFP. The difference between the 2 is-
#1- The CFP makes it so you can legally carry a firearm during the archery hunt. Open or concealed, makes no difference.
#2- The CFP makes it so you can carry openly and LOADED.

While you can legally carry a firearm openly in the state of Utah, the law states that it has to be 2 actions from firing (without a CFP). For semi-autos that means full mag. nothing in the chamber. For revolvers that means under hammer is empty and the cylinder behind it.

I would welcome any of you who are not currently members and have any questions regarding firearms and the state of Utah to join us over on UCC. http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com

In Utah you are legal to open carry


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## wapiti67 (Oct 2, 2007)

big mullet, small mullet...it doesn't matter to me, that bear WILL leave me alone :wink:


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

> I would welcome any of you who are not currently members and have any questions regarding firearms and the state of Utah to join us over on UCC. http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com


+1

That site is a great site with members who have a wealth of knowledge concerning the laws regarding carrying a firearm in the state of Utah.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I have been talking to a friend who is a DEA agent. He says anyone heading into the high country this time of year w/o a firearm is crazy. Most of the pot farmers are armed and more than willing to protect their crop. Bears are way down the list of reasons I carry. My mullet has been gone for several years!


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

I think you all are paranoid and the thought of scared uptight people running around the hills with guns disturbes me more than the farmers or bears!


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

How is it being paranoid? Alot of the mexican drug cartels will set up farms in desolate places to avoid trafficing over the border. The same people that are going onto busses and murdering every person on there to prove a point are growing and manufacturing drugs in our mountains and neighborhoods. They would not hesitate shooting anyone that would snitch on there million dollar operation? 

Im not "scared" to go run around the hills. I am just saying if you stumble on to one of these farms ran by a gang, you are going to get shot. It would just be nice to be able to shoot back.


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## ktowncamo (Aug 27, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> I have been talking to a friend who is a DEA agent. He says anyone heading into the high country this time of year w/o a firearm is crazy and more than willing to use them. Most of the pot farmers are armed and more than willing to protect their crop. Bears are way down the list of reasons I carry. My mullet has been gone for several years!


+1 - I spoke with a forest ranger a few months back and he was saying they busted a big operation up Lambs Canyon run by Mexicans armed with machine guns. I carry more for the cougars and bears (especially if I'm cleaning out an elk solo) but the crazy drug cartel guys up the ante for sure.

Thanks Justdooit_Utah for the clarification. I keep my semi-auto with an empty chamber and safety on so it sounds like I'm in the clear.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

A couple of weeks ago here in Utah a licensed to carry guy shot a self proclaimed neighborhood watch guy because he thought his daughter was being threatened when she was approached about what she may or may not have seen with all the buglaries going on in the neighborhood. Perhaps you caught the story on the news. Any way, both guys were licensed to carry. The guy that got shot got a bit "brave" and showed his gun. The other guy who also was licensed got braver and shot him. The shooter was arrested and last I heard they were going to press charges against him. Don't know the outcome. The point here is that all these guys that are licensed to carry seem to be in a hurry to want to shoot someone. Seems to be some maucho thing, and that scares the h... out of me. Now you got more licensed guys running around the mountains with guns because they are afraid of what they might run into and just like the two guys in the residentual area, some innocent act will end up getting someone shot or killed. Seems you can 't go anywhere anymore in the desert or mountains without running into someone shooting a gun. I had a friend shot in the leg by a stray bullet while riding his motorcycle out in the desert. Almost bled to death. Okay, that is off the subject, but all I am saying is, you gun carrying guys scare me more than the possibility of what might or could happen when roaming the woods. When you run into a bad situation, walk away.


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## JedInUtah (Sep 10, 2007)

ktowncamo said:


> Thanks Justdooit_Utah for the clarification. I keep my semi-auto with an empty chamber and safety on so it sounds like I'm in the clear.


Just to clarify it one step further........this is directly from the 2009 Big game proc.

If you obtain an archery permit, you may not possess or be in control of a firearm-or have a firearm in your camp or motor vehicle-during the archery hunt. The only exceptions to this rule are the following people:
Hunters who are licensed to hunt upland game or waterfowl (You must comply with the regulations in the Upland Game Guidebook or Waterfowl Guidebook, and you may possess only those firearms and archery equipment that are legal for taking upland game or waterfowl.)

Hunters who are licensed to hunt big game species during rifle or muzzleloader hunts that coincide with the archery hunt

Livestock owners who are protecting their livestock

Individuals who are licensed to carry a concealed weapon in accordance with Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7 of the Utah Code (You may not use your concealed firearm to hunt or take protected wildlife.)

Moral of the story.......if you want your sidearm during the archery season you better be taking the steps to getting your permit in time for next year. :wink:


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## JedInUtah (Sep 10, 2007)

bow_dude said:


> A couple of weeks ago here in Utah a licensed to carry guy shot a self proclaimed neighborhood watch guy because he thought his daughter was being threatened when she was approached about what she may or may not have seen with all the buglaries going on in the neighborhood. Perhaps you caught the story on the news. Any way, both guys were licensed to carry. The guy that got shot got a bit "brave" and showed his gun. The other guy who also was licensed got braver and shot him. The shooter was arrested and last I heard they were going to press charges against him. Don't know the outcome. The point here is that all these guys that are licensed to carry seem to be in a hurry to want to shoot someone. Seems to be some maucho thing, and that scares the h... out of me. Now you got more licensed guys running around the mountains with guns because they are afraid of what they might run into and just like the two guys in the residentual area, some innocent act will end up getting someone shot or killed. Seems you can 't go anywhere anymore in the desert or mountains without running into someone shooting a gun. I had a friend shot in the leg by a stray bullet while riding his motorcycle out in the desert. Almost bled to death. Okay, that is off the subject, but all I am saying is, you gun carrying guys scare me more than the possibility of what might or could happen when roaming the woods. When you run into a bad situation, walk away.


Bow_Dude- Those are some mighty big assumptions that you are making in that post. Might I suggest that you refrain from stereotyping all CFP holders into one group. :wink: 
Yes as with anything you get a few that neglect their responsibilities as firearms carriers and unfortunately they are the ones who make the news. But that is in no way the general population of Permitted persons in the state.

There are over 50,000 permitted folks in the state of utah probably in the neighborhood of 75,000 now. If you take a good reading through posts of many of these folks over at UCC (http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com) you will realize that the stereotype that you mention above is just purely FALSE. I like most others take a solemn and strict responsibility in knowing that the choices we make and the tools we carry have the ultimate dire consequences of taking another human life.
I am in no way trying to be macho or billy the kid or the next unbadged cop on the block. I carry my weapon concealed and concealed for a purpose. I carry it to protect myself and my family should I be caught in an unavoidable situation and talk or escaping have broken down.
I am far more aware of my surroundings and much less likely to provoke or escalate as a permit holder.
I am an average citizen who thanks god and country that we still have the freedoms to keep and bear arms. You should really consider your rights and take advantage of them if you so choose.

Trust me......you have far LESS to worry about from permitted folk who carry guns.......than those who are not and carry guns. :shock:


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## Snipe (Dec 4, 2008)

bow_dude said:


> A couple of weeks ago here in Utah a licensed to carry guy shot a self proclaimed neighborhood watch guy because he thought his daughter was being threatened ......


Ah try again dude. Shooter dude = No CFP shot Dude = CFP

"The Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office arrested Campos for attempted murder. The Sheriff's office says Campos did not have a concealed weapons permit, but Serbeck did. "

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=7252008


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

What is that old saying....? Oh yea. Big mullet, small bullet.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Go to the Crossroads of The West gun show at the South Towne center......YES.....this is a very VERY scary thought......but it cost $45 the last time I saw, and you don't even need to qualify with your firearm! It was like a 3 hour class. Personally, I wouldn't do it there, but that is an option.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

bow_dude said:


> Okay, that is off the subject, but all I am saying is, you gun carrying guys scare me more than the possibility of what might or could happen when roaming the woods. When you run into a bad situation, walk away.


Good advice, just walk away from a criminal who is ARMED and willing to protect his crop. You can pretend there is no threat from these drug cartels planting pot in the hills, but that is living in LaLa Land. They just found a pot farm above Ophir out here that had more than 1000 plants with a street value of $2.5 million. If you think the dirt bags growing those plants would just be peaceful loving folks you are delusional.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

NHS said:


> What is that old saying....? Oh yea. Big mullet, small bullet.


 -_O-


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## JedInUtah (Sep 10, 2007)

duckhunter1096 said:


> Go to the Crossroads of The West gun show at the South Towne center......YES.....this is a very VERY scary thought......but it cost $45 the last time I saw, and you don't even need to qualify with your firearm! It was like a 3 hour class. Personally, I wouldn't do it there, but that is an option.


Utah state law at present does not require anyone obtaining a permit to pass a live qualification. For $45 or $50 you can take the course from any qualified CFP instructor in the state and that will include photos, paperwork, and prints. I would also recommend that route and not at a show........but to each their own. BTW- state law requires 4 hours of classroom instruction.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

ktowncamo said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > I have been talking to a friend who is a DEA agent. He says anyone heading into the high country this time of year w/o a firearm is crazy and more than willing to use them. Most of the pot farmers are armed and more than willing to protect their crop. Bears are way down the list of reasons I carry. My mullet has been gone for several years!
> ...


 I ran across one in lambs canyon in october one year.. the pot had been harvested but the garden hoses and remains of a farm were all over the place. It looks like a pretty well planned out operation. I have never gone back into that area cause the huntn sucked. but I have always wanted to go back and see it in operation. Maybe turn the suckers in


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

http://www.transcriptbulletin.com/pages ... eft_column


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## HunterDavid (Sep 10, 2007)

Not to hitchhike this thread, but another farm was busted today with over *20,000* plants here in Utah! According to Pro's article, the street value for a mature plant is $2500, making today's bust valued at *$50,000,000*!! Holy Shizz....you think some illegals won't shoot you over that much money? :wink:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7714527


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

duckhunter1096 said:


> Go to the Crossroads of The West gun show at the South Towne center......YES.....this is a very VERY scary thought......but it cost $45 the last time I saw, and you don't even need to qualify with your firearm! It was like a 3 hour class. Personally, I wouldn't do it there, but that is an option.


You have to pay 45-50 for the class. And another 65 to BCI for the background check. I'm with you on not doing it at a gunshow. I did mine through Lichtenberg Research and it was a decent class. I think the best way to do it though is to get a small group and have someone come to your house and do the class.

I do think there is a problem with the system and could see why guys like Bow Guy would have nothing good to say about permit holders. People are still under the impression that since we have our current president, that these RIGHTS we have are giong to all the sudden vanish. So everyone and there grandma is getting out to get there ccp. It's the same thing with the firearm industry. These gun store owners are making a killing by making commercials saying "get these guns while you can". Now we have a bunch of yuppies runnin around with AR-15s and guns they know nothing about and probably cant even operate safely.

A couple weeks ago I was in the gun store and a lady was buying a gun to carry on her. Normally that wouldnt be a problem other than she has never shot a gun in her life. But she did the class and was a permit holder. She was looking at a little 38 special and as soon as she got it in her hands she started pulling the trigger while the muzzle was pointed at some guy. I think that is a BIG problem. But blaming the permit holders isn't right. You have to blame the person that made it possible for her to get the permit. I just think on top of the class people should have to spend time shooting the guns they intend to carry. That way we wont end up with people making big mistakes with there guns.


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

ktowncamo said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > I have been talking to a friend who is a DEA agent. He says anyone heading into the high country this time of year w/o a firearm is crazy and more than willing to use them. Most of the pot farmers are armed and more than willing to protect their crop. Bears are way down the list of reasons I carry. My mullet has been gone for several years!
> ...


I might have talked to the same ranger. He was telling me the same thing. I also talked to a guy up Big Cottonwood that said there was a bust somewhere up by Dog and Desolation Lake. I was telling him how I wasnt seeing as many Deer and he said it might be because they had hellicopters and around 100 people stomping through the forsest cleaning up the operation.


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