# Probably a very acrromonius/emotional old man rant. ..



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

--Well, here goes. This isn't going to be very popular post amongst dog owners, but, ------ this has bothered me for many, many years, (maybe 30+)? I'm just trying to understand what *may* be the majority of hunting dog owners and their "attachment" to them. I have read soooooooo many posts about their love, concern, their love, well being, and their eventual loss in some cases, as to how their feelings are towards their "best friend" but time after time they describe keeping their "best friend" in a kennel/crate. I just don't get it. :shock: I know there are some circumstances that dictate this as the only alternative, like allergies, etc. but, ----------my best friend is a family member and will live with me in my home as a family member as he deserves or I won't own one. Help me out here, am I naive/not in touch? I'm only talking about the folks who say they love their dog sooooooo much but yet, ------- a kennel? Sounds like to me, to be very blunt, they love their dog as a utility tool and a temporary ego trip unless they're is a compelling reason. Even then,???? Sorry for being so course but, I had to say this some time and here it is.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

It's a **** good thing you don't own a horse! :lol:

Dogs are den animals, Leaky; they're not people. That's the long and short of it. When was the last time you saw a wild dog build itself a 2400 square foot home? My dogs are house trained, but I've got three 50-80 lb. dogs. Do I want three huge dogs in my house? Of course not! I do have a fenced yard and they spend most of their time freely running the yard together. I have two roofed dog runs in the backyard and insulated houses in those runs. I kennel the dogs in the dog runs during inclement weather for their own good, same as I make my kids come in out of the rain.

My dogs do sleep in the garage in crates when it is exceptionally cold outside. My Griffs love the crates! They run right inside and settle down for the night. I can leave the crate doors open and they'll go inside of one and not come out.

Admittedly the Lab prefers the house. He does sleep with my kids sometimes as a reward to the kids, not the dog. My Griffs come inside and hang out, but only one at a time and only for a few hours. Then it's back outside. I guess my question would be, "Why not let a dog be a dog?"

PS- The dog I _love_ the most, absolutely adore, almost never sets foot in the house.


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

Well said bird dogger. I have a hound dog, and as I see it dogs were created to be tough and live in the elements. God knew what he was doing when he created dogs, they are well equipped to live outside. My dog has shelter and a big yard to play in. And he loves his crate, its his den. When it gets extremely cold outside I allow him to sleep inside and he runs straight to his crate and wont come out until morning. Just like most animals, dogs need to feel secure. You dont see a coyote sleeping out in the middle of an open field do you? Well dogs are the same and for my dog his crate is his sense of security when its cold or he is unsure of his surroundings.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Leaky said:


> Help me out here, am I naive/not in touch?


Yes, you are! I don't care either way, but I don't like having hair all over in my house and have the stink. Seems to me that many homeowners with dogs in the house don't realize how unsanitary and what a dump their house is due to the dogs or maybe I am out of touch.... :mrgreen: 
I love my dog, he sleeps in the garage through the winter and on really cold days we have him in the kitchen at the landing while we eat. He likes coming in to warm up, but runs out as soon as he can. He doesn't feel comfortable inside, but really likes the garage.
Does your dog also sleep in your bed with you? If not, one could argue that you are a hypocrite. If so, at least you draw the line somewhere.


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## twinkielk15 (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, I have to say I'm VERY firmly on Leaky's side. As he said, I understand that other people have reasons to keep their dogs outside and that's just fine with me. There are a lot of pros out there that believe a house pet can't be as dedicated and driven as a dog that is purely a hunting dog. That may be true but I bought my dogs as family pets AND hunting dogs. Again, to each his own and to me... house pets!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I have yet to see a free roaming potty trained house dog. Accidents happen! Every house I have ever been in who owns a dog has a pi$$ smell or poop smell. They cant smell it because their use to it. Never mind the hair that sticks all over your clothes when you sit down on their couch. Gross!
I like dogs just as much as the next guy but I don't wanna see them in the house. Same with cats! Nothing worse than a litter box and the occasional poop buried in your dirty clothes to make you think murdering thoughts.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Tell you what, I run hounds and find my kennels often times crowded. Now, if someone were to open up their homes to a few of my dogs, that would allow me to expand my herd to a proper sized bear pack. Just don't kill their independence and keep them away from any cats. Any takers??

I'm not going to bash on you Leaky, you are entitled to your opinion. But 4 to 7 house dogs is just not practical around my place.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Leaky let me tell you how it works at my house. I have two dogs and two kids. Every night its the same fight. For some reason both my kids want Cheyenne. The fat old lab. She snores. So each dog goes to each kids room and sleeps in their bed. Chey isnt allowed in my room. She makes too much **** noise.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Dang it would be a zoo if I was to let 13 brits in the house. Even my favorite one out of the bunch does not even want to come in the house.


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## twinkielk15 (Jan 17, 2011)

From the posts that have gone up it sounds like we're talking about two different setups. I don't think (and I could be wrong) that Leaky is suggesting that those of you with an entire pack of hunting dogs keep them in the house. I think he's talking more about those with one dog that is a part-time hunting buddy. Again, I could be very very wrong. If I had more than two dogs at a time there's no way they'd be in the house.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Doesn't matter- is an individual preference for the circumstatnces they live with or how they view their hunting.
Not a whole lot more not a whole lot less- You're just doing what fits your life and that's how my dogs are but if you think the "other" guy is giving his dogs any less attention to thier needs you're probably wrong.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Packfish nailed it I think. Its all an individual thing. 

Before I had a dog, I was of the opinion that dogs live outside. Period. And any homeowner would be a fool to let them in the house. Well, I have to step up and say I'm the fool. When I got my springer, it was going to be outside only. Well, five years later, I have a dog door and he comes and go as he pleases. Its been years since he had an accident in the house. We had to replace the carpet this past year. But the dog is only part to blame. The carpet was 17 years old and with four kids and a dog, it gets warn out. And I accept the costs of wear and tear on my house as part of the whole dog thing. But we vacuum everywhere, every day. And I spend plenty of money on lint rollers for he clothes. 

But the upside, is the dog is almost a companion animal to my autistic son. He is now a senior in high school, and has been on the honor roll since 8th grade - when we got the dog. Before the dog, my son struggled with school, social, and everything. Since the dog, he has excelled in so much of life. The benefits my son has received from the dog that sleeps under his bed (his own den) have been absolutely worth the wear and tear on the house and everything else. I am absolutely convinced that the dogs relationship with my son have helped him more than I can ever measure. 

When this pooch is done, I don't know if the next dog will have the same privileges, as our family situation will be different then. To me, it is very individual both to the dog, and the people. My next dog may be outside only and sleep in his kennel. Who knows. I'll tell you after I get that dog in a few years.


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

I guess I got what i was looking for, other folks views. First off,* I agree with almost all the points made*, even the subtle flaming. If i can, just a few comments. Yep, Sparky is an animal, but he's not a horse. My point is that this "animal" has given a lot of unconditional affection/pleasure to us and I just feel he deserves a bit more than a kennel or crate if we can accommodate the inconvenience!!! This is coming from a person who has killed a lot of animals for self satisfaction.  Obviously I can't keep a horse in the house, nor can I keep a bunch of dogs in the house. *Be reasonable*, in my case I'm talking about 1 and other cases whatever you can reasonably handle (1-3?). If you feel economics overrule the damage done vs the family rewards, so be it.
Individual preference, exactly - this includes individual values. Just questioning some few folks that my post fits. Yes he sleeps in my bed with me. Sometimes he takes far to much of the bed for our comfort so I just move him.  Hair, yep it's a problem but with him we're lucky that he doesn't shed as much as other dogs we've had. We just deal with it like messes we make, kids, grand kids, babies, etc. etc.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Most all my pups start out in the house to socialize them. I like dogs in the house, but i don't like the mess that they can cause. Not just the poop or pee but the TV remote! Tell me the last time you got off the couch to change the channel? Do you know where the on/off button to the TV is?

If I had a house cleaner every day and someone to take care of them 100% of the time and the rest of the time I just reep the rewards they would be in the house. And not sure about you but my dogs get muddy all the time. I have hardwood throughout my house and paw tracks are not cool.... 

But to each there own, nothing is better than having the trusted one have some dreams of hunts while watching the TV!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

My best friend is not, has never been and will never be a dog! I've had many a fine dog/pet and always treated them with a respect, but I have never felt that they "deserved" a place in my home even though I have had many that spent lots of time in my home. Dogs are dogs and are at their happiest when they know their place in the pecking order of life...humans are and must be at the top of that order!
P.S. and no, the pooch will not be sitting at the thanksgiving table with me this year either.


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

Interesting topic Leaky. 6 yrs ago I got my wife a ****er. She's always been an indoors dog and keeps my wife and I company in bed. I used to hate that she'd let him sleep in the bed, until I realized how comforting he is to her nights when I'm working. Last week I was lucky enough to get a black lab that was someone else's house dog until he passed away. Now, we have a lot of pets in our house. The ****er, cat, ferret, snake, gecko, bearded dragon, fish... you get the point. Well the lab would love to stay in the house and whines constantly when he's outside. But he was never fixed and immediately started marking "his" territory all over the home! In an effort to not have to get in a literal pi$$ing match with this dog, I got him a very nice kennel and keep him outside. I don't feel bad about him being outside in the least. He's a very good dog and bred for the outdoors. He doesn't bother our chickens or quail, doesn't chase the neighbors' cats, and doesn't get into the neighbor's pheasants. Honestly, I'd love to have him inside (mainly to help him feel a part of our pack and stop his whining). But there are some dogs that are better outside IMO I do however take him running, play fetch until he's tired (long after I am), and walk him daily. I've seen neighbors who don't ever take their dogs out of the kennel unless they're hunting. And I don't agree with that.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Packfish nailed it I think. Its all an individual thing.
> 
> Before I had a dog, I was of the opinion that dogs live outside. Period. And any homeowner would be a fool to let them in the house. Well, I have to step up and say I'm the fool. When I got my springer, it was going to be outside only. Well, five years later, I have a dog door and he comes and go as he pleases. Its been years since he had an accident in the house. We had to replace the carpet this past year. But the dog is only part to blame. The carpet was 17 years old and with four kids and a dog, it gets warn out. And I accept the costs of wear and tear on my house as part of the whole dog thing. But we vacuum everywhere, every day. And I spend plenty of money on lint rollers for he clothes.
> 
> ...


That is a cool story and you must be a proud papa.


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## ddhunter (Jul 17, 2011)

I have had dogs in the house and in kennels. I loved them all the same. I have also had friends that had small homes and even some that lived in there cars. This doesn't mean I love them less, how does the place your dog sleeps affect your love for the animal.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

REPETER said:


> to help him feel a part of our pack and stop his whining


 One technique that I have found useful with whining is to play a radio near his kennel for puppies, which is not the case with this one, but may be worth a try. Good luck!


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> REPETER said:
> 
> 
> > to help him feel a part of our pack and stop his whining
> ...


I bet that works well. I've been doing some basic research on dog training. I honestly jumped into this dog about 6 months earlier then I was going to get a dog because I didn't feel I had the time with school and work. But...I'll make the time now. So the whining is part of separation anxiety with him because his first master died and he's bounced around over the last year. As he feels more stable in our pack and as I work on not reinforcing the whining but showing positive attention when he doesn't whine he'll do better. I've already started doing this and it's working well so far. I think no matter where you keep your dog, being a responsible pet owner (warm place to sleep, adequate food, water, exercise, clean living environment) shows your love for the animal as much as anything else.


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## ROI (Jul 13, 2009)

Done it both ways. It is about being realistic about what you want out of a pet and evaluating your circumstances. I would love to have hounds, but my circumstances are not such that it works, and I'm not willing to change the circumstances to make it work.

When I wanted big running shorthairs they lived outside. Cared for but outside all of the time. This time around I wanted more of a companion dog that would still point so I went with a smaller breed. Neither of my dogs sleeps with me and will stand by the back door asking to go to their crates in the garage. With a grandson that is allergic to dogs, I make every effort to vacuam and clean the house because I want to be part of his life. If my neighbors have a complaints about my dogs they haven't voiced it.

When I'm traveling they either go with me when practical, or live outside at home.

Dog ownership is about being realistic, then finding what works for you, your family, the neighbors, the city or county, and the dog.


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