# How did the scope work?



## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

Great! take the time get it sighted in, take the wife hunting tell her its up to her if i shoot. Well, she decides on a little forky opening day 50 yard shot. lol! I was able to pick what hair to aim at, and I don't think there was to much powder burn on him after I shot.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I shot my elk at 60 yards, my deer at 50... in the end I found the POI got knocked way way off with the new scope. My old 1X never moved... year after year for a decade, I never had to adjust it. The new scope, from the time I last shot it which was dead on at 130 to the last time I shot it, opening morning of the deer season it was way way off.

Honestly I wish I had kept the 1x on it.


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

For my 36 yard shot, I don't know what I would have done without all that power!----SS


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

What brand scope were you using Dallan?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Brand new Nikon. When I get the rest of the seasons hunts out of the way (and some free time) I will revisit the issue. Heading to WY Saturday for pronghorn.


-DallanC


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## Spry Yellowdog (Sep 8, 2007)

I put the cross hairs on my buck, pulled the trigger, he ran off. Only problem was he forgot to take his lungs with him. He will be tasty.

Spry


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

I shot my buck at just a couple yards beyond 100 and thought I had the magnification set up around 7x, it was actually at 4x. I won't complain about having the magnification. I bought an inexpensive 4-12x and found that the optics of the scope are really lacking above 7x or 8x so I've decided that's about as high as I'll go with my scope.

My brother has never hunted with a scope, he's always shot iron sights, and since he's not used to quickly finding game in a scope he missed a couple chances simply because he couldn't find where the deer was at short range. It'll take some getting used to for him.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

We killed both our bucks at around 80 yards. The magnification was nice but certainly not necessary.


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## Idratherbehunting (Jul 17, 2013)

Both me and my buddy shot both our bucks at about 125 yards. The magnification was nice to be able to see if there was any branches or twigs in the line of fire. Overall, the scope was nice but didn't change what shots we took.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Do you really expect someone on here to admit that they tried a 600 yard shot with their smoke pole and missed for some reason?


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## Idratherbehunting (Jul 17, 2013)

Very good point. I saw one group attempt some 150 yards shots on already trotting deer (Looked like does to me, but maybe there was a fork horn) and the next day they were shooting at some deer about 350-400 yards away. So I'm sure there were some Hail Mary's. Can't fix stupid.


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## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

Did I say I was expecting anyone to admit to 600 yard shots, no that wasn't what I was asking at all.Thought it was funny the fact that I put on a scope and shoot a deer closer than I ever have in over 25 years of hunting with a muzzleloader.


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## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

I remember before in lines was around, I'd see guys taking shots with the hawkin rifles out to 200 or more yards. Scopes aren't the problem, people need to know the ability of the weapon and themselves.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

until people realize that scopes don't make a bullet's go further. the nay Sayers will keep up the logic its the scope that makes the bullets travel farther. 

much like the left always blames the gun on the mass killings and not the person.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I think the real question is did scope make you more successful, because you could see better and the obstruction that might be in the way. I'm guessing success rates will be much higher this year.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Brookie said:


> I think the real question is did scope make you more successful, because you could see better and the obstruction that might be in the way. I'm guessing success rates will be much higher this year.


I think your right.
Our group(the wolfpack) went 5 for 6 on 4 point or better bucks. I doubt we would have got all the bucks we did without the magnifying scopes.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I kept my 1x scope this year and made a perfect 150 yard shot. I do admit the buck looked mighty small thought the crosshairs. It would have been a lot nicer if I could have been using a 3x9.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> until people realize that scopes don't make a bullet's go further. the nay Sayers will keep up the logic its the scope that makes the bullets travel farther.
> 
> much like the left always blames the gun on the mass killings and not the person.


hehe.

I can tell the difference between a deer and an elk at 100 yards, but that's about it!

I don't have a scope on my muzzy. Open sites still. But for someone that can't count points from 100 yards, I can certainly see why many would like to have a scope on their rifle. I think most of us understand that a scope doesn't increase the distance your bullet will travel -- but rather a scope increases your visibility at your target.

I'm still on the fence -- not too sure I'll go out and purchase a scope for my smoker. And that's why. It's a smoker. Not only does the rifle need cleaning after shooting, but you'd just add a scope the cleaning list. My lawnmower does a fantastic job with the dishes, the vacuuming, the laundry.....but she's terrible with the gun cleaning.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PBH said:


> .....but she's terrible with the gun cleaning.


You need to show her windex is the best muzzleloading cleaner there is, then she can just make a pass cleaning the guns after she finishes up the windows :mrgreen:

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> until people realize that scopes don't make a bullet's go further. the nay Sayers will keep up the logic its the scope that makes the bullets travel farther.
> 
> much like the left always blames the gun on the mass killings and not the person.


I have a friend with one of the new remington muzzleloaders. It will shoot 5 inch or less groups at 500 yards. To say the new scope law isn't changing anything would be a false statment.

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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> I have a friend with one of the new remington muzzleloaders. It will shoot 5 inch or less groups at 500 yards. To say the new scope law isn't changing anything would be a false statment.


Agreed.
A scope makes a person a much better shot past 100 yards.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Noone is saying a ml can't group like that at 500 yards. It's the 20" high at 250 yards that's the problem with a shot like that.

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

It's not a problem with a turret scope. So saying the new scope law didn't affect anything is simply untrue

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

True, but the projectile at that range is on such a steep decent, the shooter needs to adjust for exact ranges. You are off 15 yards in your range estimation its a miss. In the time it would take to range him, set the turret exactly, get set up for the shot... you could just walk closer and shoot him normally ... lol


-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Since you designed a ballistic program. Can you tell me the drop data on a 45 caliber 275 grain bullet going 3000 fps. I'd like to see the drop your talking about.

Imho these new muzzleloaders are not the flint locks of yester years. The muzzy hunt has turned into a one shot rifle hunt where you can hunt with camo.

I'm right now thinking of building a new gun for the muzzy hunt. I'm going to put a break on it so my kids can shoot it.

This is the style I'm looking at.

www.hankinscustomrifles.com/rifle-gallery/muzzleloaders/

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

While i dont agree with what these guys are promoting it shows what's capable with a modern muzzleloader with Utahs new laws.






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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> This is the style I'm looking at.
> 
> www.hankinscustomrifles.com/rifle-gallery/muzzleloaders/


Those laminate stocks are pretty!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

1864.



> Sedgwick fell at the beginning of the Battle of Spotsylvania Court House, on May 9, 1864. His corps was probing skirmish lines ahead of the left flank of Confederate defenses and he was directing artillery placements. *Confederate sharpshooters were about 1,000 yards (900 m) away* and their shots caused members of his staff and artillerymen to duck for cover. Sedgwick strode around in the open and was quoted as saying, "What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line?" Although ashamed, his men continued to flinch and he said,* "Why are you dodging like this? They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."*[5] Reports that he never finished the sentence are apocryphal, although the line was among his last words. *He was shot moments later under the left eye and fell down dead.*


1864 snipers, 1000 yard shot. LOL.

Want to read something more impressive, google up the Billy Dixon and the 2nd Battle of Adobe Walls. It was a black powder cartridge, but still... a 1538 yard shot is crazy.

History is funny stuff for sure.

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Standing out in front of hundreds of "shooters" while they lob round balls at you is way different then one shooter taking aim and actually trying to hit you at that distance with a round ball. I'm no expert at long range by any means but I know enough to be dangerous at a 1000 yards. Taking a flint lock out shooting round balls with open sights is not the weapon of choice for that application and some how this is what your trying to make me believe is and was possible with that clip from the 1800's. It's intellectually not even relevant in this situation with the custom fitting bullets, range finders, wind meters, ballistic programs, turret programs and modern powders. 
The muzzy hunt is not a primitive weapon hunt!





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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Nah I get it. Its true its getting easier, but its still pretty tough for the average hunter. 

People that have the "know how" have already been shooting these distances for quite some time. Its disappointing personally, to see how far the bar is getting raised, as I think at some point either the DWR changes the season or popularity destroys the draw odds. I hate to think I'll have to give it up someday after hunting with smoke poles for 30 years.

I've always been against most of the big innovations in components (pellets, the new foulless powders, smokeless powders etc, shotgun primers, scopes etc etc). I argue thats where restrictions need to be applied (if we ever get to that point). 

I am pro-inline gun design however for two reasons, first they actually historically pre-date sidelocks by 100 years. Secondly, the modern caplock replica has just as many modern benefits that they cant be considered any more primitive than the inline designs. Both are turned out on million $$$ CNC machines, both have high tensile strength coil springs vs flat springs etc etc.

I would like to see some limitations on them in a general sense... requiring loose powders, exposed ignitions and full bore projectiles would bring max ranges back down to ~200 yards really quick for most folk.

But, for the immediate future, I'll keep tipping over deer at 50-130 yard distances.

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm tired of seeing hunting turned into shooting. To me you loose the ethical one on one match so to speak of being up close and personal. The feeling you get when you can smell a bucks breath, hear your own heart beat knowing one wrong move and it's over. With the long range craze of everything I feel you loose that part of the hunt and it's really more about you vs other hunters and who sees him first on opening day. 

If I could real the hunting technology back 25 to 30 years I would! 

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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

You are not allowed smokeless powder in Utah right now in muzzleloaders


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Scopes helped us kill 2 deer. It helped a couple friends wound bucks at over 200 yards. A scope might not make the bullet go farther, but it sure helps the hunter place the bullet at longer ranges (or wound at longer ranges). 

It almost felt like cheating. I imagine I'll go back to black powder and roundballs next year, unless I hike into a big ole basin, then the scoped gun might make the trip.....

.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> I'm tired of seeing hunting turned into shooting. To me you loose the ethical one on one match so to speak of being up close and personal. The feeling you get when you can smell a bucks breath, hear your own heart beat knowing one wrong move and it's over. With the long range craze of everything I feel you loose that part of the hunt and it's really more about you vs other hunters and who sees him first on opening day.
> 
> If I could real the hunting technology back 25 to 30 years I would!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


if it bothers you so much to use a gun, stick with your arrows. you seem to contra dict yourself as you talk of long range shooting. then say its not ethical. maybe you should sell all those unethical guns you have.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

This conversation reminds me of Trump not paying taxes. he's no different than us. If the law allows an advantage, then take it. ethical or not.

I make every attempt possible to pay as little tax as i can. This means I'll probably add a scope to my muzzleloader next year. heck, I'm already considering buying a new muzzleloader (Remington 700 LSS Ultimate??). Taxes or not, the law allows it so I might as well upgrade and keep myself competitive with the rest of you!

(I'll probably never use an adjustable site package on my bow. I just don't see the need for that!)


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Sagebrush I won't be giving up any of my unethical long range weapons only adding to the collection. I also could care less what anyone uses to hunt with as long as it's legal. I however won't sit back and say technology hasn't changed things because it has. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Several years ago when I played softball the new rage was DeMarini bats. The new bats made everyone on the team a home run hitter including myself. I could jack any ball out of the park that was put over the plate. I could do it left or right handed. The new bats made the game lame imho. No more double plays ect. It was just a home run derby. They were forced to make rules to get the integrity of the game back.

I feel all the long range weapons have changed the game. Even though I hate the game I still played with a DeMarini and I'll still play with the long range weapons. As they say don't hate the player hate the game! 

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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

A "scope" really helped my son. We spotted a buck at about a mile with the spotting "scope" then snuck in and he shot it with open sights on the muzzy. It was a rip and we both felt we accomplished something great! 13 years old and his second buck.


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