# Cheap vs Inexpensive



## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So I bought myself a new spinning rod last night (wasn't planning on it, but the price was right) for 20 bucks. It's a 6'6" Okuma Celio. I bought myself an ultralight of the same model last summer, and so far have no complaints. 

I have been thinking about my purchase all day, and wondering to myself, "What is the honest-to-goodness difference between the rod I bought, and say a $100 St. Croix?"

So, for all you equipment tech junkies, tell me: What is the difference between a $20 rod and a $100 rod? (Besides price, of course) What makes them more expensive, and is it really worth it to spend more?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Good question Chaser. I would say this. I've fished cheap rods that cast well, expensive rods that didn't, and my favorite rod is my Fenwick fly rod I paid $100 at Cabelas 15 years ago. The best rod I ever threw line with was a Sage XP 9 ft. 5 weight - that thing cast like a dream. I catch the most fish with a 7 1/2 foot 3/4 weight I built on a cheap cabelas blank, mostly because I use it on small streams which are my favorite to fish. So I guess my best answer is that its hit and miss on how much you spend. As a stream fisherman who fly and spin fishes, there is no significant difference, as I'm not asking that much of the rod. I'm not trying to make 80 foot casts with my fly rod, or 50 yards with a spinning rod. It is usually 20 feet with the fly, or little flips with a spinner/bait to a hole not far away. I could do those with broom handle (just don't tell my wife that or I'll never get a new rod again ;-) )

Fish with what you can afford, and don't worry about how much you spend. Fish don't read labels. One of my favorite fishing days was on the Henry's Fork in Idaho - I was casting a cheap-o Eagle Claw fly rod I bought at K-mart for $20, and outfishing guys decked out like an advertisement in an orvis catalog.


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## Nueces (Jul 22, 2008)

I went to a demo day to compare a lot of expensive rods (fly rods). There are different actions of the rods, so you have to compare apples to apples. I did find the very expensive rods were not any better than some quality rods with the same action - the less expensive rods just didn't have the action.

On spinning rods - I think the same thing. I went on a trip with a friend where I flew to his location to go fishing. He had a $200 spinning rod with all the bells and whistles, graphics, etc. I caught a small fish, really didn't set the hook, more of a taking the slack out of the line movement. Snapped in two!!! -)O(-  

Well he could send it in for a warranty, so it only cost me about $35 for the freight and warranty fees. I would have been ahead to purchase a Wal-Mart special for $29 and I would still have an extra rod / reel combo.

On a bait cast or other reels, the more expensive ones are in the bearings. So yes, you may get a little more for your buck, but if you keep them clean and take care of them, they will work just as good.


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## Lakecitypirate (Mar 4, 2008)

I have now difference between cheap and expensive, Usually the only difference is the diseases you will catch, which are more highly with the cheap ones.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

fatbass said:


> I laugh every time I read or hear about someone paying $100 or more for a rod that won't survive a car door or tailgate any better than a $20 rod and even if it "only" costs $35 to get some wonder rod replaced, I already got 5 rods for what they paid for the original and the replacement!


These were precisely my thoughts, and that's why I wanted someone to tell me how they justify spending that much more on a rod that will be subjected to the same stupid accidents and probably just end up broken anyway. For the cost to send in that rod, less the time it takes to get your new one shipped back, you could go and buy a new rod at the store and be ready to go immediately.

I can definitely understand why you would pay more for reels though. There is a huge difference even between a $25 reel and a $50 reel. As Fatbass mentioned, the amount of money you spent won't make a difference if you don't know how to use your equipment, but I am still curious if a more expensive set up will be more forgiving in this sense. Is there a difference in long-term durability (line guides, handles, etc. wearing out prematurely)?


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

I do know that my wife has had an Ugly Stick for a couple years, so I wanted the one they came out with last year (you know the anniversary one) well-my end line guide has already worn out for no explainable reason that I can think of. I have only owned cheap stuff, and have some on the want list-but can't imagine forking out any more $$ any time soon-especially since I'm still catching fish on the old stuff.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

REPETER said:


> I do know that my wife has had an Ugly Stick for a couple years, so I wanted the one they came out with last year (you know the anniversary one) well-my end line guide has already worn out for no explainable reason that I can think of. I have only owned cheap stuff, and have some on the want list-but can't imagine forking out any more $$ any time soon-especially since I'm still catching fish on the old stuff.


I have 2 ugly sticks. They have been pretty good, but I am a nut for new rods, so I've always got an eye out. You'll have to check out my new Okuma I mentioned when we meet up tomorrow. 6'6", light-med action, and only 20 bucks. Not a bad way to go.


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## Pez Gallo (Dec 27, 2007)

Let me say that there are anglers of all levels. Among those levels are different techniques employed to catch fish.

Can you be a good fisherman with cheap equipment? absolutely. 

Are all expesive rods created equally? absolutely not

Why would anyone abuse their equipment by slamming it in car doors? I don't know.

If you are just going to cast your rod out and put it in a rod holder, you probably don't need a very sensitive rod. If you are just casting spinners, rapalas or trolling, again you don't need a very sensitive rod.

If you think it makes no difference what equipment you are using, you are probably one of the fishermen above.

But, if you are actively engaged in a finesse technique that requires maximum sensitivity, then you will want to make sure to have a highly sensitive rod, a light and smooth reel, and the right type of fishing line.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Finnesse fishing techniques came to mind when I first read Chasers post the other thing that came to mind was if you are casting constantly for lmb,muskies,or northerns the higher end rods and reels make a huge difference in how your arm feels at the end of the day. I have two high end rods,a loomis and a sage,I also have an ugly stick and a mitchell and a couple other low end rods.I have caught several fish on all of them. The biggest thing is you need to be aware of what your using what it's capable of withstanding and fight the fish accordingly.


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

good topic chaser!

i have always been big on not paying much for a rod, or reel, and still being able to catch fish just like the next guy. however, i recently purchased my first "higher end" combo,(for me, anyways) and to me, there is a noticeable difference in feel, strength, weight, and sensitivity. this by no means determines the number of fish i catch, but like what was said by pez and luv2fish, the finesse, and different techniques definitely played into my decision on which rod to buy.
also, a lifetime guarantee from the manufacturer on the rod is kinda nice too :wink: 
the one thing i found when walking out of the store after paying double or triple for a combo that i used to buy, there is a lot less money for lures!!!


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## Pez Gallo (Dec 27, 2007)

fatbass said:


> deadicated1 said:
> 
> 
> > good topic chaser!
> ...


Fatbass, you are exactly 2.3 levels above me! :wink:

by levels, I meant that you have people who participate in fishing at different levels. For someone who is just a casual fisherman who will go out 2-3 times a year, expensive equipment regardless of the technique they are using probably isnt the best investment for them. There are people who will only use powerbait with the rod in the rod holder, spendy rods arent necessary there.

I'm not saying that if you fish a lot, while using several techniques, you need to buy the most expensive equipment. do what you want to do.

I am not rich, in fact I just got out of college and live on a teacher's salary with student loans to pay off. But, I fish. And like anything else I do, I like to use the right tool for the job.
I dont have any other real hobbies so all of my disposable income goes towards my passion for fishing. Although I am missing one of the most important fishing tools, a boat!


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

I can honestly say today, that after fishing with Nor-tah's new set-up I am very envious of the high-end rod and reel combo he has...I think Pez has a good point in right tool for the job-and Kyle's were definitely very nice for the kind of fishing we do. That said, I still catch fish on my cheapo crap...but I never realized how nice things can be. So I will start saving and upgrade when able.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

REPETER said:


> That said, I still catch fish on my cheapo crap...but I never realized how nice things can be. So I will start saving and upgrade when able.


There you go... thats the way to approach it. Do the best you can with the cheap stuff you've got and it really makes you appreciate the nicer gear that much more when you finally get it.

My St. Croix and my Loomis rod are the two most sensitive rods I own. Since I fish a lot of plastics and SPINNERS, I need a sensitive rod to transmit every little tick in the stream or lake, when I fish lakes. Hooksets are free but there are days when the sensitivity makes the difference in an epic day or a 2 fish day because you couldn't feel soft bites. Guys who just cast out and expect a fish to come slam a spinner are probably only about half as effective at catching fish as they could be with a more sensitive rod that is going to tell you when you're getting nipped instead of getting hammered. Just my 2 cents... thats the only way I've ever river fished though. 8) If I was fishing catfish or something like that where the takes aren't real subtle, then yeah, a tree branch style rod works fantastic.

On reels.... I've used some cheapo stuff and I agree that bearings and just quality manufacturing make a huge difference. The folks I trust on advice about reels have always directed me to Shimano. That said, there is a guy most on BFT know that rebuilds his own reels or uses whatever reels he has handy (I'm sure there is actually a reason for it) and catches fish from all over in Utah and elsewhere like its going out of style. He has rebuilt a reel for me that isn't a high dollar reel, doesn't feel the smoothest but man, that sucker just works, which is more than I can say for my little Shimano Sahara which seems to start locking up on me about an hour after it gets dunked..... course, its been to hell and back, several times and I'm probably just due for a new reel anyway. Spend as much as YOU can justify on a reel because you'll appreciate all the quality features of it that you won't get with a reel on sale for 15 bucks at Walmart.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> Guys who just cast out and expect a fish to come slam a spinner are probably only about half as effective at catching fish as they could be with a more sensitive rod that is going to tell you when you're getting nipped instead of getting hammered. Just my 2 cents


I don't buy the spinner comment, now fishing plastic's in carolina rigs and such I do. With fast moving lures you either hook up or not. Then after the hook up it is up to your rig to bring in that fish: espically if the fish is just hooked.
My to cents: I love my ugly sticks, but only for trolling. I buy cheaper rods with stiff or fast action tips for more acurate casting. I will pay 100 to 400 for a reel!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> Riverrat77 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys who just cast out and expect a fish to come slam a spinner are probably only about half as effective at catching fish as they could be with a more sensitive rod that is going to tell you when you're getting nipped instead of getting hammered. Just my 2 cents
> ...


Its ok... I understand being broke but just like anything else, there is a technique and you're probably in the vast majority that thinks exactly that... this lure is just a cast out and reel it in bait. 8)

You miss a fish because it just swats at your lure... that doesn't mean the fish is gone and you'll never catch him... but if you don't have a sensitive rod, you're going to be totally oblivious to the fact that you had a swipe at your spinner... the blades will stop, the vibration will change and I've caught enough fish by realizing what happened and casting back into the same spot to catch a fish that 'just missed' to know its not a line of bull. Fishing on clear water rivers and streams, you can actually see this happen.... and if you feel what I've described and then see the fish come back a second time and hit your lure because you slowed down your retrieve or put a little jerk in the retrieve, then you might understand what I'm talking about. Bass fishermen do this all the time as well, both with cranks and big spinnerbaits... why would it be any different with downsized lures for trout? :wink: When you can't be underwater watching fish *chase* your lure, a sensitive rod is your best friend for telling you whats going on at the end of your line.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

REPETER said:


> *I can honestly say today, that after fishing with Nor-tah's new set-up I am very envious of the high-end rod and reel combo he has*...I think Pez has a good point in right tool for the job-and Kyle's were definitely very nice for the kind of fishing we do. That said, I still catch fish on my cheapo crap...but I never realized how nice things can be. So I will start saving and upgrade when able.


Crap....it's about time !!!! _O\

Did you ever hear that last one of his ?!??....Screech, screech, rumble, rumble, gears and bearings grinding and stuff, it drove me nuts !! *\-\* ....scared all the fish away !!! :wink:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I used to use cheap poles but found I'd break them fairly often through mishaps. Finally went and spend some good money for quality poles. I found they break just as easy as the cheaper stuff! I decided to try an UglyStik and havent yet broken it in 8 years now, even with alot of abuse (tripping, stepping on it... etc). I bought 3 more in fact for trolling and whatnot. All that extra money I used to blow on replacing poles I get to spend on other stuff now 8) 


-DallanC


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

Riverrat, I do get what you are saying. though in my experience fishing rivers for brown trout you don't get a second chance.(dreaming for a sec...wish utah had awesome brown trout fishing).(don't open the can of worms about the weber and provo). So back to fishing these rivers way up north. These trips are long and cover many miles, I pack along extra poles for unexpected breaks. So I can't see spending over 50.00 for a pole, when I need to bring 3. I have had trips where 2 poles have been broken on one trip alone, from anywhere of loading the raft to slamming a tailgate on them. I have had a willow rip one out of my raft as I floated by. I am picky on the cheap poles I buy, it might take me 3 different stops at various stores to find the ones I like. What I look for in a pole is the stiffness. On rivers with low hanging willows, I need to present my offering right under it. I need accuracy, I cannot get that with a uglystik or any slow action pole. I stay away from eyelets made of ceramic, fugi eyelets crack after time and abuse and start to fray your line. I stay away from reels that have carbon material supporting the roller bearing on the bail. I have witness line cutting or warring grooves into that bail arm. I feel spending more money on a excellent reel with good drag and good materials and then picking a pole with good attributes is the way to go.....


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I decided to try an UglyStik and havent yet broken it in 8 years now, even with alot of abuse (tripping, stepping on it... etc). I bought 3 more in fact for trolling and whatnot


Have to love the uglystik commercial....where the guys wife slams his pole around and then stuffs it into the trashcompactor.....to keep him from going fishing....pulls it out and he's on his way..... -|\O-


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

If you buy an Okuma combo, save yourself some time and just put the reel on an Ugly Stik. The reels are decent, but those rods are magnets for trunk lids, shutting doors, knees...I could go on.

Ugly Stiks really are solid rods that are tough to break, but they're pretty heavy compared to a nicer rod like a Shimano or St. Croix. 

Out of all spinning rods I've owned, I'd say the St. Croix Triumph has been my best all around rod. I have a light action 6'6" and it has survived some real punishment, is very light in the hand, casts well, and is sensitive enough to feel a jig tapping the bottom quite well. It was about $70.00.

There are plenty of better rods out there, but from my past collection, St. Croix is my #1. 

I love the way a Shimano Compre UL feels, but they definitely are mortal and casting can be awkward and noodlish (new word there).

My spare change.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

It's all in the action brother. 
You really don't want to fling worms with a stump or a old willow. The St. Croix Triumph, as LOAH noted, and the Fenwick have some very smooth action and response. Luckystrike claims that the overpriced G. Loomis is the best on the market, but I don't like the feel, the action, the price or the response on the Loomis. The Eagle Claw GaryFish spoke of is an interesting pole, light and whippy, some of these you can use it for spinning or fly fishing. I also have one of these fit with 2lb. line for small streams and educated fish. 20 bucks !
Just try some of your buddy's when you out fishing, you'll should feel a difference in all of them. And don't let anybody fool ya, fish can read !!! _O\


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> Riverrat, I do get what you are saying. though in my experience fishing rivers for brown trout you don't get a second chance.(*dreaming for a sec...wish utah had awesome brown trout fishing*).


We do, we do. If you want to hook up sometime and come a bit south (don't know where you're at in the North) I would be happy to show ya. I don't know that we get em like MallardPin posted from back east, but we do get some healthy pigs that'll stretch your line.



BROWN BAGGER said:


> I stay away from eyelets made of ceramic, fugi eyelets crack after time and abuse and start to fray your line. I stay away from reels that have carbon material supporting the roller bearing on the bail. I have witness line cutting or warring grooves into that bail arm. I feel spending more money on a excellent reel with good drag and good materials and then picking a pole with good attributes is the way to go.....


One of my favorite rods before I decided to drop a little money on one, was a Berkeley Lightning Rod from Walmart. I also had a 4 1/2 foot cheapo Quantum rod from Walmart that made catching mudcats and carp a blast as well. The Lightning Rod was like 30 bucks or something and had the steel guides, instead of the ceramic inserts while the Quantum only ran about half that. I still have those rods I think and honestly, the action on them both got me into lots of the browns that inhabit the Provo through town too. I do have a Gatorback rod that I use with superlines and you're right about the ceramic guides.... the fireline ate right through those things so since they've been busted out, that rod works great for hard fighting fish like cats in nasty cover. In fact, although I was thinking about hitting one of our good brown streams this weekend, I might bust out the catstick and go whop some big cats on Utah Lake instead.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Yea, utah doesn't have any good brown trout fishing. You should go elsewhere. That seems like a really good idea.... :roll: 8)


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