# Gun training



## SleepyG (Dec 23, 2008)

What is the best way to teach a dog to get used to the sound of a gun, especially a 12 gauge. Ive seen those .22 blank pistols but dont know if that is a good idea to shoot around the house since I live in town. I know you are supposed to fire it around when the dog is eating. And are those popper loads and blank loads for 12 gauges a better idea since i dont have a blank pistol. I have been trying to make as much noise (banging pots, pans etc) whiles hes been eating, oh and those noises dont seem to bother him. Btw hes about 14 weeks old.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Birds. PERIOD.

Don't fire a single shot until he's seen a ton of birds and is crazy about them. Then when you do shoot he wont even hear the gun go off because the bird will have his full attention.

The best way I know to create a gun-shy dog is to just pull up and arbitrarily shoot a gun off for no good reason while he eating. Do you like sudden gunfire while you're eating? STUPID! And for GOD's sakes don't take him trap shooting and tie him to the bumper of the car. :evil:

Do this right or you may regret it.

*BIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDS!!!*


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

What Tex said. And soon your dogs will get excited any time they hear a gun shot.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

I did a combination of both these things. We made load noises while she ate (never fired a gun). When we were out camping we had a .22 firing about 50 yards as we were playing with her and only fired when she was really having a good time. A few weeks later we were out camping and did the same thing. We then left the pups with some friend who stayed in camp and went off to fire some hand guns way off in the distance. After a few shots we turned around and saw both dogs coming running to the sound of gunfire from about 1/3 mile away. When they arrived they wanted to play with the shooter and we literally had to hold them as they wanted to get right to the source of the sound. Later that day we fired a 12 gauge while she was being petted and she never flinched. 

Arrow was also shown wild birds from the time she got to Utah and maybe that is why she is always so excited when in the great outdoors. Anyway we tried real hard to make the whole process fun and took it easy until she told us she was ready to go. She now if out hunting will come running to the sound of gunfire and also assumes that any bird shot at must have been hit. When she is not allowed to go after birds that have been shot at she will whine to the point you would think she is hurt. She also loves the sight of guns and thinks we are going out every time I clean one.

My advice is get your dog out on birds and take it easy with the gun fire until your dog lets you know it is ready.


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## SleepyG (Dec 23, 2008)

Well I took a chance and brought my pup out in the field. Trying my luck at a last day last min duck hunt. And low and behold hes not gun shy. I shot off a 12gauge just randomly around him as we were walking and he didnt even budge or take notice. Then we stopped off around a creek and I shot a few more rounds while he was sniffing for birds, and he barely noticed the sound. Then really tested him when we walked back to the truck. I got his full attention and shot off two 3 1/2 12 gauge shells. They got his attention but only cause he was wondering what it was i was shooting at. Such a proud day, and hes only 13 weeks.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

Unless I'm not understanding you correctly, I think you need to re-read what Tex said about birds. Gun-shy dogs are made--not born. The trick is to get the dog to associate the bang with birds, which it should already be nuts about.

Just taking your pup out and firing randomly to 'test' whether it's gun shy is exactly the kind of thing that makes a dog gun shy.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Gumbo said:


> Unless I'm not understanding you correctly, I think you need to re-read what Tex said about birds. Gun-shy dogs are made--not born. The trick is to get the dog to associate the bang with birds, which it should already be nuts about.
> 
> Just taking your pup out and firing randomly to 'test' whether it's gun shy is exactly the kind of thing that makes a dog gun shy.


I didn't want to sound like a broken record but you just said what I was thinking... :?

SleepyG, when you head down the dike opening morning of duck season next fall and your pup runs for the first hole he can find to hide in when the gunfire starts I'll be right there saying "I told you so". -)O(-

Over the last 30 years I've owned and trained a truckload of dogs and what you are doing is NEVER a good idea. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

A gun shy dog doesnt care if its a 2-3/4 or 3-1/2 or 410. Tex is right about the birds and taking the time to do it right. You may have lucked out, and I think you are going to be fine next hunting season with your pup since he seemed to do okay when he was out just barely. But trying that method is basically rush and rullet with the revolver loaded and only one bullet out of the cylinder. You either pretty much luck out on that first pull of the trigger, or you are dammed and what has happend cant be undone.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

deadicatedweim said:


> But trying that method is basically _*rush and rullet *_with the revolver loaded and only one bullet out of the cylinder.


 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Sorry just can't let that one go. -_O- -_O- -_O-

It's _*Russian Roulette*_. I am laughing so hard I can barely stay in my chair. Sorry, don't mean to offend, but... :mrgreen:

I totally agree with the opinion stated, It is WAY dangerous to randomly touch off a gun around a pup, or even an adult dog that is not acclimated to the sound of gunfire. Pots and pans, screaming, yelling, etc. are only good at teaching dogs not to be afraid of...Pots and pans, screaming, and yelling.
The steadiest dog in the world might freak if a twelve guage goes off next to him for the first time and he doesn't know what it is. HOPEFULLY, you got lucky. If not, you may spend opening day next fall wondering where the hell your dog vanished to.
Good luck with that. :|


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

damb yahoo I tried checking the spelling and it told me to put the two LL's in rullet. To bad it didnt tell me that its russian.


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## SleepyG (Dec 23, 2008)

I didn't just fire off one shot. I fired multiple shots while he was sniffing birds while we were walking standing still. I tried it like 12 times, and not once did he even think of running. Hell it barely got his attention. Believe it or not there are plenty of dogs out there who just naturally are not gun shy. Heck this is the first dog i have ever even considered to formally train using books, dvds internet tips and just using common sense. My dad has a 4 month old golden lab and he has no idea how to do any formal training. And his pup was never gun shy, he basically did what I did, lucky for him though he has much closer access to public year around land to hunt at. So he gets to do it way more often than I would ever be able to do. 

I do appreciate the feed back, but you all make it sound like im just going to stop with the gun training and not keep reintroducing him to the shotgun during the rest of the off season and hope hes good for the next hunting season. Besides i know there are a lot more things I need to train him on. Having even got the "whoa" post yet hes only 13 weeks. Speaking of areas to keep gun training him. Where am I supposed to go around the Ogden area that allows guns in the off season. And that don't have a specific dog training season. There has to be areas that are well within a 10 min drive that I can fire off a gun, do bird training with out worrying about breaking any laws. That is one of the biggest reasons I even took him out this time, since that areas seasonal access closes very soon.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I think your original post should have read something like this:

"Hey guys, I've got an 18 week old pup. I wonder if he is gun-shy or not. I think I'm gonna do the dumbest thing I can think of and take him down to the marsh and just fire off 12 ga. 3 1/2 inch magnum loads over his head and see what happens. *\-\* I don't really give a rats as$ what you guys think (because I've got a handle on this whole dog training thing) but would like to hear what all of you have to say about this subject.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I think your original post should have read something like this:
> 
> "Hey guys, I've got an 18 week old pup. I wonder if he is gun-shy or not. I think I'm gonna do the dumbest thing I can think of and take him down to the marsh and just fire off 12 ga. 3 1/2 inch magnum loads over his head and see what happens. *\-\* I don't really give a rats as$ what you guys think (because I've got a handle on this whole dog training thing) but would like to hear what all of you have to say about this subject.


+100%


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

SleepyG said:


> I didn't just fire off one shot. I fired multiple shots while he was sniffing birds while we were walking standing still. I tried it like 12 times, and not once did he even think of running. Hell it barely got his attention. *Believe it or not there are plenty of dogs out there who just naturally are not gun shy*. Heck this is the first dog i have ever even considered to formally train using books, dvds internet tips and just using *common sense*. My dad has a 4 month old golden lab and he has no idea how to do any formal training. And his pup was never gun shy, he basically did what I did, lucky for him though he has much closer access to public year around land to hunt at. So he gets to do it way more often than I would ever be able to do.
> 
> I do appreciate the feed back, but you all make it sound like im just going to stop with the gun training and not keep reintroducing him to the shotgun during the rest of the off season and hope hes good for the next hunting season. Besides i know there are a lot more things I need to train him on. Having even got the "whoa" post yet hes only 13 weeks. Speaking of areas to keep gun training him. Where am I supposed to go around the Ogden area that allows guns in the off season. And that don't have a specific dog training season. There has to be areas that are well within a 10 min drive that I can fire off a gun, do bird training with out worrying about breaking any laws. That is one of the biggest reasons I even took him out this time, since that areas seasonal access closes very soon.


And believe it or not there are dogs out there that come from great hunting lines and they are gun shy. The common sense was thrown out the window along time ago, no offense and the books and dvds and internet are a waste of money if you wanna jump the gun and not play it safe and do what they say. I can see why Tex is annoyed. You came and asked for info which was a great question. And then you got good advice and then did a 180 degree turn from what they adivsed. Why ask a question you dont want the answer too? Were you hoping that someone had the easy answer of saying "go to Costco buy the big bottle of NoGunShyDogPills and follow the directions on the back"?

I dont mean for this post to sound negative or jumping down your throat but a bird dog is wothless if you cant shoot around it. You can work around a dog that cant swim or cant smell good cause you can still take the dog with you and try to have a fun outing and you can retrieve your own birds in the water or take a second good dog. But on the other hand the gun shy dog is going to be running back down the dike on the first shot and clawing the shiz out of your truck trying to climb back in its kennel. Then you have a dillema wether to find a good family situation for the dog or to have it put down cause of your mistake.

For your last question drive down the street asking a local farmer if you can help in his yard to have access to train your dog on his property. Or try bird farms if you can afford the minimum amount for the least amount of birds, then spend time trying to find others lost birds if the perticlular farm is okay with it.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> NoGunShyDogPills


 -_O-


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Did anyone mention the importance of birds???? And more birds, and more birds....anyone? :mrgreen:


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## keny glasscock (Jan 20, 2009)

Yeah it was mentioned but seems as if ignored. So here goes. DO NOT SHOT 1 OR 12 TIMES AROUND YOUR PUP UNLESS IT IS ACTIVELY PURSUING BIRDS. Otherwise you're thowing the dice on a sure deal. So what would you be saying if the dog cowered? If you're trying to make the dog gun shy this is the best way to do it, bang, bang ,bang. You don't check for gun shyness you prevent it by introducing the gun correctly.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Did anyone mention the importance of birds???? And more birds, and more birds....anyone? :mrgreen:


*BIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDSBIRDS*

Geeze I hate repeating myself! _(O)_


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## SleepyG (Dec 23, 2008)

Look guys i am listening to your advice. I'm just saying that i'm pretty sure there is more than one way to train a dog not to be gun shy. So then if only introducing birds as a distraction from the bang bang of a shotgun. Why would then that my dads dog is not gun shy and he never taught his dog the proper way of doing it. I'm not saying your way is not right/wrong im just saying there are dogs out there who just don't care or even mind guns going bang. 

Anyways to last few questions from my last post anyone have an idea to remedy that problem. I would really like to keep working my dog in the field when hes ready as soon as hes ready with readily available land that allows guns year around and that is not going to kill me in the aspect of driving distance and time to get there. I'm based up here in Hill and I work on the flight line and to top it off I have a 9 month old daughter i have to entertain. I still try my darnedest to keep up the training in house while caring for my kid at the same time. Needless to say I don't much wife and me time, but in the long run i believe it will be worth it.

deadicatedweimsorry I missed your post about the reply to my last question about where to find areas to train at. I didn't realize there were that many reply's to my post. You all have to understand i don't have a normal job let alone what i call normal hours. I get called in a lot and have many weekends are shot due to weekend duty at a moments notice. So time is a factor, I understand I may have jumped the gun so to speak, no pun intended! Its just my life's go go go all the time. Besides this one mistake I believe Dash, my pup is responding very well to the house and limited yard work i have been trying very hard to get in each day. You all just have to remember that im in the military and deployments in my career are happening each year for me and my squadron hell Ive been stationed at Hill for over 3 years and Ive been deployed to Iraq the last 3 years and even missed my first daughters birth and the entire pregnancy. I'm not trying to make excuses, i know it sounds that way. I'm just giving facts, but I do appreciate the advice even though i didn't take it at first. I do not plan on doing it that way again, hence why i asked about alternate methods or areas for my circumstance. Thanks again.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> by keny glass**** on Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:00 pm
> 
> Yeah it was mentioned but seems as if ignored. So here goes. DO NOT SHOT 1 OR 12 TIMES AROUND YOUR PUP UNLESS IT IS ACTIVELY PURSUING BIRDS. Otherwise you're thowing the dice on a sure deal. So what would you be saying if the dog cowered? If you're trying to make the dog gun shy this is the best way to do it, bang, bang ,bang. You don't check for gun shyness you prevent it by introducing the gun correctly.


This is Keny's first post here and he forgot to include a signature. Here's one he could use:
http://www.lostarrowgundogs.com/
There's a reason people pay Mr. Glass**** hundreds of dollars monthly to train their dogs. I'd listen to his advice.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> Why would then that my dads dog is not gun shy and he never taught his dog the proper way of doing it.


Ummmmm, He got lucky...


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Look at it this way. Even if 99 out of every hundred potential field dogs could not be made gun shy by shooting them, that one time out of 100 is ALWAYS a possibility.
With the methods that were suggested in response to YOUR question, that one dog becomes one in 1000 or even less. IF you had taken your dog out and obviously ruined it on that ill advised trip to the marsh, then you would be back on here looking for advice on how to fix it.

As it is, you may have gotten lucky and the dog was interested enough by the new surroundings that he ignored the gunfire. If you _continue_ to be lucky, he will continue to ignore the gunfire or even begin to look at it as a GOOD sign of things to come.

BUT, he might _not_ too.

Gunfire is like a bee sting. The first time it might be perfectly okay and there is nothing to worry about. The second time, maybe the same thing, maybe an allergic reaction that kills you dead on the spot. 
You might very well be looking at a potential allergic reaction that will make you sorry you ever owned a dog. And you may be looking at the best field dog that you have ever worked with. The only way to tell NOW is with time. 
I used to have a friend who hunted with an uncles dog most of the year every year for 4-5 years. One year for no reason that anyone was ever able to figure out, that dog turned chicken and disappeared for nearly a week when the first shot of the season was fired over him.
From that point on, that dog would run and hide if he even SAW a gun and the terror he went through on the Fourth of July was the most pathetic thing that I ever heard of. WHY? To my knowledge no one ever figured it out for sure. The only thing I am sure of was that the dog was not paying attention to the guy with the gun, and it was fired practically right on top of him with no warning. THOUSANDS of rounds and suddenly gun shy. Think it can't happen to a pup?

If you had done it the way it was suggested to you in the first place, the worst thing that could have happened 999/1000 is a dog that was not very good at the job you wanted him to do.

I sincerely wish you luck and good hunting with your pup, but if he turns tail and disappears into thin air the next time he hears a gun go off next to him, you can look back at the advice you were given and the results that were predicted and you can figure out what went wrong and WHEN it went wrong.

In all honesty I do NOT think that is what is going to happen. I think you got lucky and the dog will be fine. BUT... -)O(-

* And while I am thinking of it,THANK YOU for your service. I may never remember to thank you for it again, but I mean it and sincerely appreciate it. Many of the people on here do. I would guess that ALL of them would not be too much of a stretch as a guess.
I try to remember to thank all the service men and women whenever the thought crosses my mind and it JUST DID! :mrgreen: 
I am ex-Navy, so I understand some of what you mean by go go go. Hectic does not begin to describe the military life style, except of course when it doesn't. :wink: 
Three speeds, hurry up and wait, go go go, and WHAT JUST HAPPENED?
Thanks. Feel free to pass it on to the rest of your squadron and anyone else that needs it. SOME of us really care and appreciate it. That goes for the rest of you who I either haven't thanked lately or at all. YET! *


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

SleepyG, sounds like you have a nice dog on your hands with good innate potential. Good luck with your training, be sure to let us all know how he progresses.


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## SleepyG (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks Atroxx for the comment ill defiantly pass the message along to the guys at my squad. 

And as stated before im not going to be trying that method again of just shooting around him, I just strapped for time and opportunities and to see how he reacted. Already working on finding farms to keep up the gun training when hes ready. BTW i did get him chipped today so if he does run off at least i know hell be back at the truck.  

Oh another question, I took him in for his 4 month shots and checkup today. And i was being told he is a bit on the small side for his age. He was weighing at 17 pounds, mind you hes well feed twice a day not much food about a small bowls worth. Anyways he was the runt of the litter, unfortunately i did not get to pick him he was a gift from my parents who picked him up in Idaho. Nevertheless he dose point naturally and does retrieve, actually he minds very well and is coming along quite nicely on obedience training. Anyways sorry to go off on a tangent, my question is how big should he be and any guesses on how big he might get. He is getting taller ill take a pic of him tonight and post it. See what you all can figure out.


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

SleepyG I am glad all went well with your gun training. However, to illustrate what the fellas (even thought they can be terds :mrgreen: ) were trying to say. I guide at a Phez farm off and on through out the year. I have personally witnessed the demise of 3 different labs by a intro to the gun at the phez farm. All three of the owner said "hey you mid if we let _fido_ kick along maybe he can learn a thing or 2" :roll: The only thing he learned is fear for the gun 2 of the 3 were so freaked they wouldn't even pick up dead phez (remember these are Labrador *retrievers*. _As much as I would like to I can't claim it was because of the fact that they were labs_. It was because they had no intro to the gun. Intro to the gun needs to be in a controlled setting and be a positive experience where it becomes a signal for hey there are dead birds on the ground! I would bet my bottom dollar none of these dogs end up becoming producing dogs all because of a poor intro to the gun.

There is my $.02... enjoy your pup and good luck! What kind of pup is it?

Oh and lastly (I AM NOT TRYING TO BE A PIOUS A-HOLE) but you are not out of the woods. Right now the dog has no positive association with the gun and birds. You want the sound of the gun to excite him because he knows it means boss knocked a bird down (hopefully  ). It sounds like your pup is bold enough that it shouldn't be a problem, but you still may want to try some of the gun intros suggested here.

ok now I am done! :wink:


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## SleepyG (Dec 23, 2008)

Hes a german shorthaired pointer. And yes I will be trying those methods stated here.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

keny glass**** said:


> Yeah it was mentioned but seems as if ignored. So here goes. DO NOT SHOT 1 OR 12 TIMES AROUND YOUR PUP UNLESS IT IS ACTIVELY PURSUING BIRDS. Otherwise you're thowing the dice on a sure deal. So what would you be saying if the dog cowered? If you're trying to make the dog gun shy this is the best way to do it, bang, bang ,bang. You don't check for gun shyness you prevent it by introducing the gun correctly.


Welcome to the forum and great advise!! I trained my dog by shooting while we were hiking and she was swiming in a pond, something else she loves. She is great and was gun shyness was never a problem but next dog I train will be introduced while chasing birds. Nice website kenny and beautuful EP on the home page. I love the liver and whites and WILL own one someday.


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