# What high water may bring



## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I guess we should be thankful that the GSL is filling up after years of drought and low water, but I can't help but wonder what the consequences will be for duck hunters. For starters, it won't kill off any phragmites. Higher lake levels will cover the emergent marsh that has struggled to get a toe-hold in the newly exposed lake bed over the last 10 years or so. Hopefully the higher lake level won't kill it off for good because this is helping to feed vast numbers of birds migrating through our area each fall. We had big plans for cattle to chomp on some phrag patches this spring, but the high water will make it very difficult to see that experiment come to fruition now. On the bright side, it will be nice to see Farmingon Bay and Ogden Bay (not the WMA's) fill back up and be accessable to migrators to use as a huge lake loafing area again, although it may take a few years for them to get back in the hang of it. I also think it will help the WMA's to hold more birds due to the loss of the GSL wetlands (if the lake levels stay high for the whole year). The most bird use on the WMA's may be at night by birds coming off the lake and feeding in the WMA's, but there are always some stragglers that will be available to hunters. Anyway, those area few pros and cons to the high snowpack this year. 
R


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

They will have new food out there for them to loaf around and many hunters wont get to them.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Oh, and I forgot to mention another benefit. With this snowpack, the Bear River may actually be able to reach the Great Salt Lake this summer for the first time in a long time! This means that the Bear River Bay and the Willard Spur will be able to produce mass quantities of sego pondweed this summer. These two areas are crucial to suppying Ogden Bay, Harold Crane and Bear River Refuge with ducks!
R


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## Swaner (Sep 10, 2007)

Lets hope most of the water makes it out there without flooding. Less water spilling over the banks = more water in the lake hopefully.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

dkhntrdstn said:


> They will have new food out there for them to loaf around and many hunters wont get to them.


atleast paddler will be happy! plenty more areas to roost, feed and more room for the birds to escape the large amount of pressure they experience from the MMs and airboats  im excited to see how much the lake will come up. it might make the birds spread out a little more and make hunting a little tougher, but im up for the challenge!  only 172 days to go...... -()/- -()/>- *()*


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > They will have new food out there for them to loaf around and many hunters wont get to them.
> ...


Yea he should be happy. sent he only hunts 4 days out of the season.yea i hope it keeps coming up.Yea it will spread the birds out and the hunters.It will make some tough hunting days and Im alright with that.It still to farr away.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Dave Schearer the Harbormater down at the GSL Marina does a great job of summarizing what is happening on the GSL:

http://www.gslmarina.com/WaterWatch2010 ... fault.aspx


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

Daisy said:


> Dave Schearer the Harbormater down at the GSL Marina does a great job of summarizing what is happening on the GSL:
> 
> http://www.gslmarina.com/WaterWatch2010 ... fault.aspx


Excellent information!


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

There is a HUGE downside to the amount of water we'll be getting though...

If I understand it correctly, the majority of the nest will most likely already be sitting with eggs in them, about the time that all of the water is expected to hit the GSL and surrounding marshes. What happens then... WIPED OUT NESTS. Fortunately, Mallards will re-brood (or whatever the heck the scientific word is), but they are the only species that will. 

This is the only downside that I can think of, but it is a ridiculously huge one. Let's hope the birds hold off for a little while before makin' their nests & layin' them eggs!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The next 6 weeks will be the tell all. I for one will be happy to see the lake get some water back in it. I'm tired of looking at a dried up South shoreline every day when I drive home. Maybe it won't fill up as much as I hope for, but it will definitely get some more water in places that have been dry for years.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

kill_'em_all said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > They will have new food out there for them to loaf around and many hunters wont get to them.
> ...


Maybe the GWT will come back. I wouldn't mind at all being able to paddle out on the GSL, Spur, etc. We need the water, for sure. Just think how happy I'd be if the lake comes up AND we get more motorless areas. I just might hunt waterfowl before freeze up.


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

You could ask Kingfisher (one of our forum members). He is the State's leading snow guru. He has been on the news quite a bit lately.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > dkhntrdstn said:
> ...


or more then 7 times a year................


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, I hunted 28 days this season, so almost a month of days between mid-September and mid-February. I count myself fortunate. Most of it was upland, because I can get away from guys who can't hunt without a motor. Last day of the chukar season we hiked 8 hours and probably close to 3000 vertical feet. Guess I just enjoy using the quads that God gave me. I use my days for the highest quality hunting I can find, and competing with MMs just isn't my idea of a quality outdoor experience. Get rid of them and I'll hunt open water more.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

well since this thread is in the "WATERFOWL" section, i was talking about duck hunting. not upland game hunting. theres plenty of areas all over utah that a MM cant get to, we have discussed this..............


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

paddler213 said:


> Well, I hunted 28 days this season, so almost a month of days between mid-September and mid-February. I count myself fortunate. Most of it was upland, because I can get away from guys who can't hunt without a motor. Last day of the chukar season we hiked 8 hours and probably close to 3000 vertical feet. Guess I just enjoy using the quads that God gave me. I use my days for the highest quality hunting I can find, and competing with MMs just isn't my idea of a quality outdoor experience. Get rid of them and I'll hunt open water more.


Did you ever think that you hiking in the mountains and blasting your gun away at birds is ruining someone else quality hiking experience?!

those cross country skiers hated us snowmobiler's for ruining their quality experience as well. There approach is to lock out snowmobiles from the mountian. funny how your in the same category.

your relentless attack is getting old.... o-||


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

Darin Noorda said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I hunted 28 days this season, so almost a month of days between mid-September and mid-February. I count myself fortunate. Most of it was upland, because I can get away from guys who can't hunt without a motor. Last day of the chukar season we hiked 8 hours and probably close to 3000 vertical feet. Guess I just enjoy using the quads that God gave me. I use my days for the highest quality hunting I can find, and competing with MMs just isn't my idea of a quality outdoor experience. Get rid of them and I'll hunt open water more.
> ...


+1! theres always one group of people that is unhappy with another


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## Dr. Decoy (May 4, 2008)

If the high water levels take out breeding grounds we may see a change in daily bag limits. Does anyone know if the high water or low water levels help/hinder the spreed of botcholisim? (sp?)


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

kill_'em_all said:


> well since this thread is in the "WATERFOWL" section, i was talking about duck hunting. not upland game hunting. theres plenty of areas all over utah that a MM cant get to, we have discussed this..............


That's not the issue. The issue is the impacts MMs have on our marshes, the birds, and other hunters. My name was brought up in this thread because of the anticipated rising lake levels. I'm not the only one to recognize that this would perhaps give the birds some respite from the MM pressure inside our WMAs. We'd be better off with more motorless areas.

I'm just not much into motorized vehicles in our wild places. When you look at the widespread ATV damage in our mountains, the MM impacts in our marshes, etc, restrictions are needed. I don't know much about snowmobile impacts, though I've read a bit about the Yellowstone controversies. Restricting their use wouldn't break my heart.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

Dr. Decoy said:


> If the high water levels take out breeding grounds we may see a change in daily bag limits. Does anyone know if the high water or low water levels help/hinder the spreed of botcholisim? (sp?)


I dont think water levels have much to do with Botcholisim as much as hot temps in the fall. That and water quality seem to be more of a cause for it. The breeding counts are put by the FEDS and are done on a fly-way count. So if it floods here, other areas along the flyway will most likely do well with the good water year. We are part of the Saskatchewan Mallard count so our chances of a drop in bag limits is very unlikely..


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > well since this thread is in the "WATERFOWL" section, i was talking about duck hunting. not upland game hunting. theres plenty of areas all over utah that a MM cant get to, we have discussed this..............
> ...


o my hell... not this again. sounds like you were born 300 years too late. horses and walking seems to be your most favorite way to do things. you wanna walk to get there, cool. i wanna ride to get there. until the law states that one of us cant do that any longer, we really need to leave it at that.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> I'm just not much into motorized vehicles in our wild places.


Well I guess we better close ALL DIRT ROADS. Even the one you use to get to your churker hunting spots. So that mean you will have to hike in from the freeway.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Dr. Decoy said:


> If the high water levels take out breeding grounds we may see a change in daily bag limits. Does anyone know if the high water or low water levels help/hinder the spreed of botcholisim? (sp?)


In think we will be ok as long as we don't have a really hot summer. So let hope we don't have a hot summer this year and have more rain storms that last longer then 5 mins.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

dkhntrdstn said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just not much into motorized vehicles in our wild places.
> ...


i suggested that to him awhile back, for some reason he wasnt in favor of that whole idea... wonder why? -Ov-


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > paddler213 said:
> ...


I don't know ether.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I think a lot of the spur roads should be closed during hunting season, and the Forest Service should decide which ones remain open. I have no problem with the main Uinta North Slope road, for instance, or other roads that have been in service for long periods of time and are multiple use. ATVs should have large, legible registration numbers so they are easily identified. If they go where they should not be, they should be confiscated and sold at auction, in addition to large fines for their operators. The money should go into restoration of habitat that has been damaged and enforcement efforts. It's time to get serious about rogue off roaders. It's time you MM guys thought more about habitat and wildlife, too. A little physical exertion never hurt anybody.

Back on track, it will be nice to see the lake come up. Even though there may be short term ill effects, we need it.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

We don't really have that much nesting going on along the GSL marshes overall, so higher lake levels won't have a real huge impact on the duck numbers. Canada is really wet and conditions are great, so we should have similar bag limits this year. We have a new Waterfowl Coordinator (Justin Dolling), so we will see what he pushes regarding Utah's share of the regs and bag limits. The loss of the emergent marshes along the shorelines will be a tough loss for hungry birds if the waters stay high until fall. If we have a hot summer, maybe some of the salicornia and bulrush flats will survive to feed birds once again.
R


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> It's time you MM guys thought more about habitat and wildlife, too.


you would s*** a turtle if you saw where i took my MM the other day!! :shock: i didnt even think i could get it there, turns out i can! you should see the trench i dug in the mud too :lol: 

we care about it just as much as anyone else does. you dont see the common foot soldiers showing up at waterfowl habitat projects or other projects that are designed to benefit wildlife. its the guys who are most dedicated that show up to help give back to something they care so much about. those guys are also the ones who are most invested in this sport. a majority of those guys own MMs, airboats or both.

we all have our opinons. lets leave it at that.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> It's time you MM guys thought more about habitat and wildlife, too.


you would s*** a turtle if you saw where i took my MM the other day!! :shock: i didnt even think i could get it there, turns out i can! you should see the trench i dug in the mud too :lol: 

we care about it just as much as anyone else does. you dont see the common foot soldiers showing up at waterfowl habitat projects or other projects that are designed to benefit wildlife. its the guys who are most dedicated that show up to help give back to something they care so much about. those guys are also the ones who are most invested in this sport. a majority of those guys own MMs, ariboats or both.

we all have our opinons. lets leave it at that.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> its the guys who are most dedicated that show up to help give back to something they care so much about. those guys are also the ones who are most invested in this sport. a majority of those guys own MMs, ariboats or both.


Wow, there is a factual statement! I find it awful strange that all these folks who are complaining about the habitat and hunt quality never show up at the projects to lift a finger to better it. I guess all they are capable of doing is complaining.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

Sometimes it is sad to see how dead this forum has become. Then I realize that everyone is sick of -O\__- except the select few who continue to do so. o-||


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

rjefre said:


> We don't really have that much nesting going on along the GSL marshes overall, so higher lake levels won't have a real huge impact on the duck numbers. Canada is really wet and conditions are great, so we should have similar bag limits this year. We have a new Waterfowl Coordinator (Justin Dolling), so we will see what he pushes regarding Utah's share of the regs and bag limits. The loss of the emergent marshes along the shorelines will be a tough loss for hungry birds if the waters stay high until fall. If we have a hot summer, maybe some of the salicornia and bulrush flats will survive to feed birds once again.
> R


Duck numbers won't suffer near as much as goose numbers if the lakes flood nests, but it would somewhat.

My guess, but I think more water would help duck numbers overall rather than cause problems. Goose numbers, however, may decline.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't think it will impact overall bird numbers moving through all that much, and we really need more of a lake out there. I just hope it rises enough to spread birds and hunters out.


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## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

paddler213 said:


> I think a lot of the spur roads should be closed during hunting season, and the Forest Service should decide which ones remain open. I have no problem with the main Uinta North Slope road, for instance, or other roads that have been in service for long periods of time and are multiple use. ATVs should have large, legible registration numbers so they are easily identified. If they go where they should not be, they should be confiscated and sold at auction, in addition to large fines for their operators. The money should go into restoration of habitat that has been damaged and enforcement efforts. It's time to get serious about rogue off roaders. It's time you MM guys thought more about habitat and wildlife, too. A little physical exertion never hurt anybody.
> 
> Back on track, it will be nice to see the lake come up. Even though there may be short term ill effects, we need it.


paddler, i would dare bet that my shotgun kills 300 times more ducks in a season than my mm does and would also wager my gun kills 500,000 times less ducks than botulism. Just sayin!


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2011)

diverfreak said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > I think a lot of the spur roads should be closed during hunting season, and the Forest Service should decide which ones remain open. I have no problem with the main Uinta North Slope road, for instance, or other roads that have been in service for long periods of time and are multiple use. ATVs should have large, legible registration numbers so they are easily identified. If they go where they should not be, they should be confiscated and sold at auction, in addition to large fines for their operators. The money should go into restoration of habitat that has been damaged and enforcement efforts. It's time to get serious about rogue off roaders. It's time you MM guys thought more about habitat and wildlife, too. A little physical exertion never hurt anybody.
> ...


+1! couldnt have said it better myself!  o-||


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

diverfreak said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > I think a lot of the spur roads should be closed during hunting season, and the Forest Service should decide which ones remain open. I have no problem with the main Uinta North Slope road, for instance, or other roads that have been in service for long periods of time and are multiple use. ATVs should have large, legible registration numbers so they are easily identified. If they go where they should not be, they should be confiscated and sold at auction, in addition to large fines for their operators. The money should go into restoration of habitat that has been damaged and enforcement efforts. It's time to get serious about rogue off roaders. It's time you MM guys thought more about habitat and wildlife, too. A little physical exertion never hurt anybody.
> ...


Tony, I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was talking about ATV use in our mountains. In talking with the Forest Service, many feel that illegal ATV use is a huge problem. I have come across otherwise pristine meadows on the archery elk hunt with fresh ATV tracks right through the middle of them, miles from an open dirt road.

Many on these forums feel that MMs don't impact the habitat, birds, or other hunters. But though vocal, they are outnumbered by non-motorized hunters. It will be interesting to see what the Division does on this issue. It is ironic that the day I met with Tom Aldrich a few years ago and showed him the original version of the Motorless Proposal, Justin happened by Tom's cubicle. He read it, and was non-committal. He said that if the hunters support more motorless access, it should happen. This was irrespective of biological concerns. There really doesn't appear to be good data on the MM impacts, so perhaps hunter opinion should drive policy.

I will continue to press for motorless access, as I think it will improve the habitat and waterfowl hunting in Utah. I'm pretty sure the majority of waterfowlers agree. If those who participate on these forums don't like it, that's fine. Speak your mind, and I'll speak mine.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I think the biggest thing that bothers me about the "motorless" issue is,, your opinion would directly effect me. If you got your way, you wouldn’t allow MM's or any other propulsion. My opinion to use a MM or AB doesn’t effect the way you do things now. If you didn’t have MM's to complain about you would find something else to complain about. How bout instead of complaining about such a minuscule item, donate some time or money towards a marsh cleanup or nesting project. I'll make ya a deal, you go place a single goose nest (like the UABA placed out at the islands at the spur) but you do it by foot, then I'll keep opinion to myself. Until then, all I'm seeing from you is a bunch of threats, internet tough talk and hot air. owning a MM doesn’t make a "bad person" but you wanting to take my decision to own a MM is just wrong. Your decision should effect you, not me!

My final word on this,, let me do my thing and I'll let you do yours.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Lots and lots of mud motor owners on here. 
The percentage of mud motor and airboat owners are few however compared to foot soldiers aren't even close.
If mud motors stir birds and blow them out as well as hammer vegitation and disrupt birds and ecology in general, how can you mud motor runners justify this???

If mm's tear up vegitation, stir birds and blow them out of areas, how can you continue to tell others to shut the hell up and mind their own business??


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## Swaner (Sep 10, 2007)

I think if you were to eliminate MM's, foot soldiers would have more competition. I'd say 95% of foot soldiers I've seen hunt within 1 mile or 2 of the parking areas. Mud motor owners typically head out to areas further away than the foot soldiers are willing to walk or can access. You take away mud motors and now you have a lot more people in the foot accessible areas. I think a lot of our wma's already have a good mix of foot and mud motor areas. I have a couple of places I walk into that aren't motorless only but because of the terrain, there is no way I'll ever see a MM in there. Maybe you should just hunt these areas that mother nature made inaccessible to us mud motor users. I've had some great shoots on these little ponds. Just have to find them.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Swaner said:


> I think if you were to eliminate MM's, foot soldiers would have more competition.


I doubt that. Besides, the original proposal only added a couple more motorless areas. I'd prefer to eliminate them from all areas where their use isn't necessary because of the size of the unit, like the Turpin, etc. Nobody ever recommended completely eliminating them.

The concern goes beyond competition, though. MMs also impact habitat and bird usage, which are completely different considerations. We'll see what the Division does on this, I don't expect any radical changes. It wouldn't surprise me to see no changes for quite some time. The vitriol this topic typically generates isn't really necessary, or productive.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> I'm pretty sure the majority of waterfowlers agree. If those who participate on these forums don't like it, that's fine. quote]
> 
> They make drugs that treat delusional beliefs, being a doctor you should know this, seek help before it is too late!


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

Joel Draxler said:


> Sometimes it is sad to see how dead this forum has become. Then I realize that everyone is sick of -O\__- except the select few who continue to do so. o-||


Ditto !!

I have not been on here for this exact reason . it sure doesn't take much to start a pissing match . This is the first time i even bothered in a while . Paddlers name did not have to be thrown in here , but it was so he defends himself , then all hell brakes loose again . Very childish IMO and I have had enough !!!  :roll:

Gone !!!


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

1BandMan said:


> If mm's tear up vegitation, stir birds and blow them out of areas, how can you continue to tell others to shut the hell up and mind their own business??


Please help me understand how putting my crap in a MM boat and spinning a prop through MUD damages ANY vegetation? I'll bet you a MILLION dollars that walking down the foot soldiers dikes at Farmington or Harold crane are trashed a lot more than any MM could ever do. and as far as them stirring up the birds.. I don't think the sounds of a lawn mower motor will send waterfowl into a craze where they need to leave a certain area. I do believe that being shot at with 12 gauge shotguns probably convinces them to leave. I'm afraid you guys need to have your heads checked. If nothing else, look at a MM as a tool to allow you use to marsh more effectively to your benefit. If you were really that concerned about the vegetation of the marshes you would be more proactive about the frag situation (Like the UMMA, UWA, UABA all are doing) instead of complaining about a tool that helps hunters be successful. So yes I am telling you that if you can not be productive and logical, shut the hell up and mind your own business. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution..


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## mccune_70 (Aug 18, 2009)

I thought this was a post about water depth in the GSL???


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2011)

1BandMan said:


> Lots and lots of mud motor owners on here.
> The percentage of mud motor and airboat owners are few however compared to foot soldiers aren't even close.
> quote]
> where are you getting this information? are these actual facts that are written down somewhere or are these opinions you and paddler share between the 2 of you? i'd like to see proof of your theory. i'd be willing to bet, theres ALOT more guys in utah that use MMs, ABs, ATVs/motorcycles or TRUCKS to access their waterfowling spot then you really think...
> ...


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

Time to get some facts straight. We are ALL WATERFOWLERS!!! It doesn't matter if you choose to walk, bike, airboat, mud motor, etc. We should be more united than this bickering about who hurts the marsh, who cares more, who cares less. Believe me the tofu eating anti-hunting crowd is paying attention to the nonsense of us dividing into cliques of MM guys, airboat guys, 3 days a season hunters, 30 days a season hunters, etc.

WE ALL AS WATERFOWLERS ARE IMPACTED BY THE GREAT SALT LAKE MARSH CONDITIONS. 

Another thing, most of our duck are puddle ducks. Most puddle ducks naturally nest in upland habitat and then lead thier young to the marsh. Not a real big impact on nesting birds. The GSL holds ~15 million acre feet of water at full pool. The current elevation is 4196.4'; we are still several feet from average depth. The GSL isn't going to flood this year even if most tributaries will flood. There is room in the lake to take the water. 
More water in the GSL is a good thing. It will help restore the correct salinity, provide more area (closer to WMA's) for resting birds, bring more fresh water to the surrounding marshes, improve access for airboats, and hopefully thwart the GSL Minerals Corp. from expanding their Willard spur operations. 

I am looking forward to improved conditions this fall.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

mccune_70 said:


> I thought this was a post about water depth in the GSL???


Naw, we do this MM thingie 3 or 4 times a year.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> youre opinion is designed to benefit you guys, but if you had your way things would not work the way you think they would. without the UWA, MM and AB associations here in utah, your and my WMAs would not be half of what they are because they would have no local support. sure Delta and DU would pitch in SOME, but not to the extent that you would need to make it as successful as they are now.


 :O||: the truth is a Bit*h ain't it boys.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> mccune_70 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought this was a post about water depth in the GSL???
> ...


more like once a month at least :lol:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > youre opinion is designed to benefit you guys, but if you had your way things would not work the way you think they would. without the UWA, MM and AB associations here in utah, your and my WMAs would not be half of what they are because they would have no local support. sure Delta and DU would pitch in SOME, but not to the extent that you would need to make it as successful as they are now.
> ...


You need to stop storing the gas for your mud motors in the house. Go outside and get some fresh air.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > Lots and lots of mud motor owners on here.
> ...


Not everyone owns a mud motor, trust me on this one.

They need to drop before you come on here and start a discussion.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Gee LeDouche said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > If mm's tear up vegitation, stir birds and blow them out of areas, how can you continue to tell others to shut the hell up and mind their own business??
> ...


I believe* your *the "tool."


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2011)

1BandMan said:


> Mojo1 said:
> 
> 
> > kill_'em_all said:
> ...


thats really the best argument you can come up with for that statement? o-||


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2011)

1BandMan said:


> Not everyone owns a mud motor, trust me on this one.


when did i ever say everyone owns a MM? dont believe i ever said that... they may not own a MM, but i'll bet a very large majority of foot soldiers would take up an offer to go hunt out of one!

you seem to be having a hard time coming up with information to prove things you claim to be facts. whats with that? if they truely are facts, the numbers have to be out there. they do all kinds of studies on random things in this world.

MMs and ABs dont not impact ducks near as much as a shot gun fired in their general direction does, TRUST ME ON THIS ONE.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

According to the 2006 post season survey, 73% of waterfowlers don't use motors. They either walk in, bicycle or paddle. That information is straight from the Division. I haven't seen the latest survey, but MM users were only 20% of waterfowlers. They are not entitled to negatively impact the habitat, birds or other user groups through unbridled use of MMs.

It is presumptuous to say that the WMAs would not be what they are without the UWA, UMMA, UAB, etc. Many people volunteer who are not affiliated with these groups, and the hard work of the Division employees should not be devalued by such statements. That is not to say that the efforts of volunteers are not very helpful, I just wouldn't overestimate the contributions of the groups mentioned.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> According to the 2006 post season survey, 73% of waterfowlers don't use motors. They either walk in, bicycle or paddle. That information is straight from the Division. I haven't seen the latest survey, but MM users were only 20% of waterfowlers. They are not entitled to negatively impact the habitat, birds or other user groups through unbridled use of MMs.
> 
> It is presumptuous to say that the WMAs would not be what they are without the UWA, UMMA, UAB, etc. Many people volunteer who are not affiliated with these groups, and the hard work of the Division employees should not be devalued by such statements. That is not to say that the efforts of volunteers are not very helpful, I just wouldn't overestimate the contributions of the groups mentioned.


from 2006 to 2011, the MM numbers have exploded. im positive the number is higher then 20% this year.
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESNT OWN A MM, IT DOESNT MEAN THEY DONT SUPPORT THE USE OF OR HUNT OUT OF THEM
the DWR does a good job. im not trying to knock them down or anything, but the DWR works WITH the UMMA, UWA and UABA. they really appreciate all the time and effort those organizations put into helping out with the marshes. without these organizations, IT WOULD NOT BE WHAT IT IS, even with the DWR doing all they could. i wouldnt UNDERESTIMATE the contributions of the groups mentioned.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I'll repeat here what I told Tom a few years ago, "You can obliterate any behavior." If non-motorized hunters have bad experiences because of MM users, whether that be poor hunting because birds are run out of the marsh, or being set up on by late-arriving MMs after having worked their butts off to get to their spot early, or even direct conflicts, they are less likely to return to the marsh.

The current motorless areas adjacent to parking areas, like Pintail, are very popular. At one time, they were thought to be underutilized. In fact, the Division, at one of the RACs, recommended opening it back up to motors. That proposal was resoundingly defeated, thank goodness. I would bet that if the Division developed and marketed a comprehensive motorless program, more hunters would be recruited and retained. The marsh would be better off, and one of the barriers to participation, ie, the cost of a MM, would be eliminated. Build it, they will come.

The DWR works with all volunteers. In addition to the groups mentioned, many dedicated hunters help out on a wide variety of projects. More help is needed. When I sprayed Phrag last year, Randy told me that he only had about twenty volunteer-days. I hope to have more time this year.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo1 said:
> ...


thats really the best argument you can come up with for that statement? o-||[/quote:3l1022rk]

It's the only argument he has left since you wrote the truth! Do you know how I know Kill'em writes the truth? It's cause I show up, ain't never met you or any of your professed anti MM masses at them,, so I know you and your "professed masses" don't show at any event that benefits the habitat or the birds. Don't give me that family excuse either, every one of the guys that take the time to show up have other commitments, hell some of them actually bring their families out. So it comes down to either you don't care or you are too chicken-**** to attend one after you have run your mouth on here, probably both. I invite you to prove me wrong, show up sometime, or just contunie to hide behind your screen names on the forums.

I will say this about John "Paddler", he will occasionally attend projects versus just run his mouth all the time. Guess his nuts dropped, has yours?????


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## hotspot (Jan 12, 2009)

paddler213 said:


> According to the 2006 post season survey, 73% of waterfowlers don't use motors.


that statistic doesnt mean that 73% oppose boats, it doesnt mean anything other than identifying a user type! we can misconstrue statistics all day long here. Mud motors are only permitted into WMA's as vegetation goes dormant. something the motorless crowd doesnt like to admit. one other thing i am sure of, that many of the foot soldiers, dudes who ride bikes, and others look forward to the day they can run a mud boat. almost all of us started somewhere. the motorless argument could have my attention. but in its current form of hype, alienation, stretched science etc. towards other user groups and with their attitude towards fellow hunters i am not won over. it seems more of a self serving agenda to me. lock out half the public and look at the more i get. calling it how i see it!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

MMs tear up the substrate and destroy the tubers and roots, not just the floating leaves and stems of the SAV. They can have lasting effects on SAV, regardless of the time of year they run in the marsh. In fact, they probably impact SAV here more so than in the South, due to our shorter growing season.

I think the assumption that all motorless hunters aspire to the day they can afford to run a MM is wrong. Many of us prefer the peace and quiet of the marsh, and don't view hunting out of a MM as the highest form of waterfowling. I love paddling out and back. Last year, I paddled back in the dark a couple of miles, all the while swans, ducks and geese were flying overhead. Their wing beats and calling were magical. I would have never heard them above the sound of an engine. Plus, I only paddle 3MPH, so I hard plenty of time to enjoy the symphony.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> I think the assumption that all motorless hunters aspire to the day they can afford to run a MM is wrong. Many of us prefer the peace and quiet of the marsh, and don't view hunting out of a MM as the highest form of waterfowling. I love paddling out and back. Last year, I paddled back in the dark a couple of miles, all the while swans, ducks and geese were flying overhead. Their wing beats and calling were magical. I would have never heard them above the sound of an engine. Plus, I only paddle 3MPH, so I hard plenty of time to enjoy the symphony.


you can only speak for yourself and no one else on this issue. you arent a mind reader and you dont know what everyone else wants and what is best. so far in the past 4 months, every time this issue has come up, you and band have been the ONLY ones who were not in favor of MMs and shutting down the marsh to more motorless areas. IN THIS STATE, YOU ARE OUT NUMBERED WHEN IT COMES TO MM AND AB OPINIONS. im sure there are others out there who share the same opinion as you, but the majority of hunters (73% sounds about right  ) out there support the use of MMs on WMAs and other public water ways to hunt waterfowl. many many many many duck hunters in utah and across the nation use boats to hunt ducks. many many many many duck hunters in utah and across the nation would love to hunt out of boats if they had the opportunity or ability to.

im with mojo, i challenge you to show up at one of our next UWA/UABA/UMMA meetings/get togethers/banquets/service projects around the state. chances are, i'm gonna be there. but like previously stated, i dont think you are brave enough 

question. paddler, were you at the Delta waterfowl banquet in february :?: many people showed up to that event. a few people from this forum showed up to support our sport and give donations, many UMMA and UABA members as well. i know mojo was there and so was i...

i too enjoy hearing the wing beats of waterfowl while im out in the marsh. but that pipe on my 45hp MM makes it sound like a race car, and when that engine sings, along with other fellow MM hunters, its another type of symphony i also enjoy -()/>-


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Here is my bottom line to Paddler and 1man.

I'm an adult. I've hunted and been an outdoorsman for a long, and I can make my own decisions. My decision is to use a MM and you are trying to force your opinion on me and effect my decision to own a MM. If I thought it was that bad to own a MM I would do exactly what you do, and walk or paddle to go out. but I SURE AS HELL wouldnt try to force my views on someone else. I've looked at the facts for myself and made my decision and you have obviously made yours.



1BandMan said:


> I believe* your *the "tool."


Ps- 1man, very mature of you to call me a "tool". now I know what type of a "man" I am dealing with..


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I wasn't at the Delta banquet this year, as I had to work. I was there last year, though, and was looking forward to it again. And, I have participated in UMMA/UAB projects, including the Cutler marsh cleanup last year. In fact, I have spent as many days cleaning up Cutler as hunting it. I spray phrag, helped with the Farmington Bay dike cleanup and nesting projects. My schedule is quite busy, so I'm not bragging, but I do what I can to give back.

Gee, your decision to own and operate your MM impacts others, and so is subject to restrictions. I hope to see those restrictions increase in the future. Oh, and kill, are you saying that as a member of the minority of Utah waterfowlers, ie, those who own a MM, you speak for the majority of hunters who don't use motors? Really?? That's quite illogical, don't you think???


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2011)

paddler, do you own a car, truck or suv? if so, how many?


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> Gee, your decision to own and operate your MM impacts others, and so is subject to restrictions. I hope to see those restrictions increase in the future. Oh, and kill, are you saying that as a member of the minority of Utah waterfowlers, ie, those who own a MM, you speak for the majority of hunters who don't use motors? Really?? That's quite illogical, don't you think???


Spoken like a true liberal!!!!

Do you really think that you speak for the majority of waterfowlers??? I really think that you don't. I only see you and bandwagon man screaming on here and and when I talk to fellow hunters I encounter out in the marsh, I can't even remember any that opposed the use of MM's. Most wish they had one. :lol:

Here's some logic for you, if all these waterfowlers really opposed MM's and cared enough to attempt some change, then they would show up and be heard. Judging from the silence from the rank and file; there is your answer to what they want.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

> If non-motorized hunters have bad experiences because of MM users, whether that be poor hunting because birds are run out of the marsh, or being set up on by late-arriving MMs after having worked their butts off to get to their spot early, or even direct conflicts, they are less likely to return to the marsh.


The funny thing is I had bad hunts from foot hunters walking in late and setting up by me and sky busting everything that come close. And Im still out there hunting every year and every weekend.So I dont by that at all.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

How is my MM effecting anyone else when I drive it so far away from anyone else that I can barely hear their shotguns fire? I believe your logic is severely off kilter. That's like saying I don't use a snow blower because I enjoy shovelling by hand and nobody else should use a snow blower either cuz it pollutes the environment and disturbs to solidarity of a neighborhood. its simply asinine.. let me guess, we should all drive a prius and buy carbon credits, right?


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

Gee LeDouche said:


> How is my MM effecting anyone else when I drive it so far away from anyone else that I can barely hear their shotguns fire? I believe your logic is severely off kilter. That's like saying I don't use a snow blower because I enjoy shovelling by hand and nobody else should use a snow blower either cuz it pollutes the environment and disturbs to solidarity of a neighborhood. its simply asinine.. let me guess, we should all drive a prius and buy carbon credits, right?


 :O||:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

This is new ground in some ways (mm debate) but not too new.

I believe mojo1 stated sometime ago that no states have banned mud motor use and asked me for more info.
Yes, hunting itself disturbs waterfowl but not to the tune of hundreds of mm's or airboats running through birds at high speeds.

I spent about 10 minutes finding these.....I'm sure there's more:

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/vi ... =38&t=5131

http://arctic.synergiesprairies.ca/arct ... /1080/1106

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/lite ... bli102.htm

http://www.wildlandscpr.org/node/210

http://www.couleeaudubon.org/changes.pdf

http://www.madduck.org/mounting-pressure

http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/32994


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks, 1BandMan. There is no doubt that MM cause more bird disturbance and habitat degradation that non-motorized access. I thought the water velocity study was interesting, in that it can lead to permanent trail formation. You can see these trails on our WMAs using Google Earth. I did the calculations a while ago, and it turns out that running a MM through undisturbed marsh destroys enough food to feed 255 ducks for one day. But that's just the short term. The turbidity that results prevents regrowth, so can cause longer term damage. Yearly use of the same trails makes them permanent. 

It is interesting that Gee thinks his MM has no impact, and is nobody's business but his own. And Jimmy thinks that concern for the environment is a "liberal" issue. I thought I was being conservative in promoting conservation.

It will be interesting to see what the Division does on this issue. I think Tom just didn't want to deal with it. Now that the Wildlife Board directed the Division to look seriously at MM impacts, I think they will have to make some progress. Though some enjoy the sound of an air-cooled 45HP V twin at full song, and the sight of roostertails fill with fragments of SAV, enlightened management demands more motorless areas and HP restrictions on those areas open to MM use.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Paddler if you don't like hearing mm running.Why dont you just sped the money and get in a duck club. then you can have all of the foot hunting all you want.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

1BandMan said:


> This is new ground in some ways (mm debate) but not too new.
> 
> I believe mojo1 stated sometime ago that no states have banned mud motor use and asked me for more info.
> Yes, hunting itself disturbs waterfowl but not to the tune of hundreds of mm's or airboats running through birds at high speeds.
> ...


ok, now i have stayed out of this until i clicked on a few of these links...
Really??? im mean come on... lets have the debate, which i welcome and can see both sides of the issue. if the entire state was shut down to MM i wouldnt stop hunting, so im not afraid of the debate.

but the first link is to spring birds being pushed during nesting season
the second link is about flat bottom airboats in Alaska that is over 12 years old
3rd link is of human disturbance including HUNTING from western Greece
links 4 and 6 are a good read and noteworthy. 
5th link is more of a mix of closing areas and limiting motor access. lends some credibility to the argument. an increase of .1 was seen in harvest take. 
Link 7 short read talks of limiting access to reduce disturbance on waterfowl.

thanks for links 4,6. i enjoyed the read. the best one is link 6.

now on to the argument! i think that chewing gum while hunting should be banned!!! whos with me!!!!


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

Darin Noorda said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > This is new ground in some ways (mm debate) but not too new.
> ...


 -oOo- im with you!! i think we should also ban any beverage on WMAs except for water! and even then, it has to be in an eco-friendly container.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm impressed that you even read the articles. A majority like to argue or hear their head roar and pay little if any attention to whats being posted.
If I were allowed to post the actual articles, I could show the specific reasons and issues and maybe lend some insight as to why I posted them.

Most folks on here seem to feel that its their God given right to do whatever the hell they please... "If its within the law, I'm going to do it and no one is stopping me. Its none of thier *$&%ing business." And then there are discussions by the same intelligent people about why there are so many regulations, laws and restrictions and why they are so difficult to enforce. I, myself, can take a pot shot at the answer, but most folks are *truly* oblivious as to why.

The links were random and again&#8230;&#8230;took about 10 minutes to gather and about another 30 minutes to read through (not a lot of research time, just RANDOM)

The first article came from a forum similar to this one where there are current restrictions on mud motors and more discussion about restricting them more due to people rallying waterfowl and tearing up vegetation. The DNR in Minnesota is concerned about the disturbance but more concerned about the ecology and water quality. The dude that replied said: "I guess to me this does not serve any point unless you have it during the season as well. So all these ducks stay at the lake until opening and then get blown right off. We have seen it happen in our former dakota hotspots which were void of ducks las year due to airboats and mud motors from all of the out of staters which now know about the secret. Problem is the ducks are going to quite stopping on this lake becasue of all this. So what good does it do on swan i guess if not during the season?" Sound familiar?
Another guy said: 2 Points to consider Al. First, maybe not ban all motors but allow electric motors two those over a certain age only. This would still keep the lake quiet and allow those with more "life expereince" to be able to hunt the lake. Second, if history showes us anything, if motors were banned you would not need to go 1.5 miles across the lake as the hunting should be as good a block and a half from access and cabins as what it is 1.5 miles out. The reason you have to go that far is that every duck from each access has already been chased of the lake or at least away from major boat paths. I know with a push pole or paddle you could skirt right past resting flocks without alarming them. I am sure you hunted the lake in the 70's just like I did when everyone push poled out to their spots. Great shooting for all as the ducks never left the lake."

These folks are probably one of the first to start down the path of mm restrictions.

The second is indeed 12 years old. In the last 12 years with airboats disturbing the ecology and habitat has air boat technology changed to where they no longer disrupt wetlands and the ecology within the wetlands? Ahhhhh, and I think mm's are quite a bit harder on things that airboats&#8230;..bottom line..mm's and airboats running through shallow water isn't good for birds....... 12 year old article or not.

The 3rd link is indeed about hunting etc from Greece but, the quote that I found interesting is "Sportsmen in only 1 or 2 powered punts in Logarou Lagoon and equivalent numbers in Koronisia Bay can disturb waterfowl so that they stop feeding and eventually abandon the area. Poled fishing punts move rather slowly and generally cause less disturbance. Motor boats generally flush waterfowl and interrupt feeding for a much longer time. In Koronisia Bay fishing boats regularly displace ducks from feeding areas."

Are our birds here in the USA or maybe the birds here in Utah especially say tougher or maybe more stupid and less apt to act differently than birds from Greece that the link talks about???

In the 5th link, .1 is related to number of birds bagged. In one area the averages increased a full bird bagged difference IN ONE YEAR with the areas closed and closed to mud motors.

And the 7th link the quote: "Limited access areas were created within Atchafalaya Delta WMA, Pass a Loutre WMA, Pointe aux Chenes WMA and Salvador WMA to provide a more primitive hunting experience for waterfowl hunters. Restrictions on the use of internal combustion engines provide for reduced noise in an effort to minimize disturbance of waterfowl within the LAA and improve hunter harvest success between September and January."

This is exactly what Paddler and I are talking about.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Yup!!! That's exatly what I'm talking about. I predict bird usage of our WMAs and hunter success will increase when MMs are removed. I can't wait!!! It's going to be great, guys. Really!!!


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> Yup!!! That's exatly what I'm talking about. I predict bird usage of our WMAs and hunter success will increase when MMs are removed. I can't wait!!! It's going to be great, guys. Really!!!


if it ever does happen, you wont live long enough to see it happen or benefit from the results... its a L O N G ways down the road. i'll bet they ban hunting itself before they ban mud motors o-||


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > Yup!!! That's exatly what I'm talking about. I predict bird usage of our WMAs and hunter success will increase when MMs are removed. I can't wait!!! It's going to be great, guys. Really!!!
> ...


I don't think with the trend of "have mud motor and willing to travel" that the end (not really banning hunting) but at minimum, lack of interest in waterfowling is all that far off eitherway. As mentioned, its a means to an end as well.....a very unfortunate one, but one none the less. Aaaaaand, you nor Paddler are going to be very old or dead as the issues are growing exponentially.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

im all for people giving up waterfowl hunting! that means better hunting opportunities for those who are willing to stick it out, through the good and the bad!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> im all for people giving up waterfowl hunting! that means better hunting opportunities for those who are willing to stick it out, through the good and the bad!


As I mentioned, you really should let them drop before continuing the topic.

Your speaking from a true selfish perspective......not so different than many other mm owners but selfish none the less.

The loss of numbers of hunters isn't really a good thing. Banning hunting/loss of opportunity/privilages and/or loss of what is in the best interest for waterfowl and the big picture of things will be the result.....from selfish short sightedness....... whether it be from sportsman, developers, corporations, whatever.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

1BandMan said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > im all for people giving up waterfowl hunting! that means better hunting opportunities for those who are willing to stick it out, through the good and the bad!
> ...


im not dropping s***. as long as you are willing to fight, i am too. i dont give up that easy.

i dont think im the one who is being selfish here. YOU want the marsh shut down to MM use, because YOU want better duck hunting. got news for you, duck hunting in this state right now is fantastic. i wouldnt change a thing about it. but sadly for you, theres tons of guys that own MMs and AB that are consistanly shooting large numbers of birds.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

IMO the absolute last thing we need is more rules. How bout we start a coalition to get people to follow the rules we already have in place before we inject more rules into our sport. And yes, I believe I am a reasonable, well educated and intelligent man so I should be able to govern myself and not have someone else tell me what to do. If MM's and AB's are banned I probably will stop hunting waterfowl (because then I'd have to compete with all those skybustin dike hunters). but until they are banned, I will fight tooth and nail to keep my option to own one! I cant believe you want to limit my choice to own a MM. 

Have you thought of the conciquenses of banning MM's? First off, everyone who currently owns a MM would take a 100% loss on thier investment of owning one because the market would drop off completely and we wouldnt be able to sell them. Second, all the MM makers and layout boat builders would be out of business (which would hurt the local economy) because nobody wants to paddle themselves and all their gear 5 miles away from the launch to get away from all the sky busters. Third, everywhere you would go would look just like the foot soldier dikes at farmington because nobody would carry back thier snickers bar wrappers, empty hulls, toilet paper, Mt dew bottles ect ect.. It would look like a complete disaster area. Fourth, If you think being a foot soldier now sucks, wait till you have triple or quadruple the foot traffic in your areas. I could go on for days about the negative effects of not owning MM's would be. 

Help me understand that if boat access hurts waterfowl somehow, then how come howard slew has been such a turd to hunt the last few years? Its motorless and the hunting out there has never been worse...


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Gee LeDouche said:


> IMO the absolute last thing we need is more rules. How bout we start a coalition to get people to follow the rules we already have in place before we inject more rules into our sport. And yes, I believe I am a reasonable, well educated and intelligent man so I should be able to govern myself and not have someone else tell me what to do. If MM's and AB's are banned I probably will stop hunting waterfowl (because then I'd have to compete with all those skybustin dike hunters). but until they are banned, I will fight tooth and nail to keep my option to own one! I cant believe you want to limit my choice to own a MM. Bwaahhaaahaaah. Classic. Did you read my post about 5 posts back? Here it is again.....feel free to read the links too:
> Most folks on here seem to feel that its their God given right to do whatever the hell they please... "If its within the law, I'm going to do it and no one is stopping me. Its none of thier *$&%ing business." And then there are discussions by the same intelligent people about why there are so many regulations, laws and restrictions and why they are so difficult to enforce. I, myself, can take a pot shot at the answer, but most folks are truly oblivious as to why.
> 
> Have you thought of the conciquenses of banning MM's? First off, everyone who currently owns a MM would take a 100% loss on thier investment of owning one because the market would drop off completely and we wouldnt be able to sell them. Second, all the MM makers and layout boat builders would be out of business (which would hurt the local economy) because nobody wants to paddle themselves and all their gear 5 miles away from the launch to get away from all the sky busters. Third, everywhere you would go would look just like the foot soldier dikes at farmington because nobody would carry back thier snickers bar wrappers, empty hulls, toilet paper, Mt dew bottles ect ect.. It would look like a complete disaster area. Fourth, If you think being a foot soldier now sucks, wait till you have triple or quadruple the foot traffic in your areas. I could go on for days about the negative effects of not owning MM's would be.
> ...


When wasn't Howard Slough a turd??


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

and you think it is a god given right for you to tell others what you think they should do.... :roll:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> and you think it is a god given right for you to tell others what you think they should do.... :roll:


Again this is classic. 
We had some talk about the growing number of wood ducks in Utah (which is wonderful to see) on here not too long ago as well. What do you think yourself, Kill, about somebody going back to the same spot (which wood ducks have a tendancy to do also) over and over and killing 7 wood ducks per day, or per week or whatever until they are all gone/Kill(ed) or does your forum handle already tell us your opinion. Is this OK or do you have another opinion (*telling someone else what do do*, or it isn't a good idea) about it??

CON-SER-VATION.....Its really not a bad idea, especially since our technology and numbers have surpassed the LIMITED resource.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

you bet i would! i had a flock of 3 drake woodies come in and land in my decoys last october. i had never killed one up until that point... do you think i atleast gave the first one a chance to get off the water??   then i proceeded to dump another one with my 2nd shot... and then decided to let the last one go (actually i missed -#&#*!- O|* )

let me ask you a question. does it say anywhere in the proc that you cant shoot more then 7 wood ducks a day? and then does it say you cant go back and hunt the same place day after day?

if a flock of geese where most of them had bands and neck collars came into your decoys one afternoon, would you pass shots on those just because they are rare, to conserve the banded ones and wait for the more common goose?

when it comes down to it, if its legal, there not a **** thing you or anyone else can do about it, even if you think its "wrong". its all up to each and every single individual out there.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> you bet i would! i had a flock of 3 drake woodies come in and land in my decoys last october. i had never killed one up until that point... do you think i atleast gave the first one a chance to get off the water??   then i proceeded to dump another one with my 2nd shot... and then decided to let the last one go (actually i missed -#&#*!- O|* )
> 
> let me ask you a question. does it say anywhere in the proc that you cant shoot more then 7 wood ducks a day? and then does it say you cant go back and hunt the same place day after day?
> 
> ...


AGAIN....... people wonder why there are so many rules and regulations.

Kill,....others, have at er'. You speak volumes to enforced conservation efforts.

Done and done.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

So...how bout that high water??........


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

nickpan said:


> So...how bout that high water??........


it should allow us to run those MM right up to the legecy highway. We might even be able to drive right through Johns yard before the flooding is over! :lol:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

[attachment=0:3tx8ubb0]ThreadHiJack-1.png[/attachment:3tx8ubb0]


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Mojo1 said:


> nickpan said:
> 
> 
> > So...how bout that high water??........
> ...


Stop by any time, Jimmy. There's always cold beer in the fridge!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

nickpan said:


> So...how bout that high water??........


im excited! like mojo said, this year i'll be able to run my MM places i never thought i would ever be able to go! :mrgreen:


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Thank heavens we have people like 1band and paddler that can tell us all what we should be doing and that WE are all wrong for wanting to make our own decisions. So much for idea of land of the FREE and home of the brave. Its quickly turning into the "I know better than you do, and I'm going to take away your freedom and decide what's right for you".

1band- you say "Its none of their *$&%ing business" Let me make this clear, ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS if I want to own a boat. Its not about what's "within the law" or not. Its about common sense and letting me make my own decision. You should have absolutely ZERO input on my decision to own a boat. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but its when you start trying to force it on others that don't agree with you is when it pisses me off.

I looked at a few of the links you posted and lost interest when I read where they were extremely outdated and probably written by some rabid treehugging animal rights activist.

All in all I see this going very badly for all waterfowlers. I see this easily turning into the "boiling frog" parable. Little by little more restrictions will be implemented on us until we have nothing left. Don't get the ball rolling!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

nickpan said:


> So...how bout that high water??........


Im loving all of this water. It will open back up some more hunting areas. I just hope it keep going doring the summer as well.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

The decision to own any vehicle is a personal choice. Operation of that vehicle on public roads, open spaces and waterways is subject to laws and regulations. Go ahead and buy whatever you want, and use it on private property as you see fit. We're talking about regulating the use of MMs on public marshes. 

In my view, there are many similarities between the damage ATVs do in our mountains and the damage MMs do to SAV in the marsh. Hopefully, regulations will be formulated to correct this problem. We all have our own opinions, no need to yell about this. Public opinion and science will drive the DWR's decisions. I'm sure Justin will hear all sides, probably more than he likes.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

puddler69 said:


> The decision to own any vehicle is a personal choice. Operation of that vehicle on public roads, open spaces and waterways is subject to laws and regulations. Go ahead and buy whatever you want, and use it on private property as you see fit. We're talking about regulating the use of MMs on public marshes.


there are already rules and regs that we have to follow. we cant go launch our boat anywhere we want. there are certain areas that were DESIGNED for motorized boat use. there are also areas that are rest areas that no one can go into. there are areas that only foot traffic and canoes can go into. do you think that just MMs and airboats destroy vegitation? what about on utah lake where all the ski boats and wave runners go day after day. they have to have some impact on the wildlife and vegitation on that lake. it is not your place to tell me what you think needs to happen. that is not a god given right. we all share the marsh. we all want to be able to continue to use it as we see fit, as long as we are within the rules and laws. once again, im not doing anything illegal by running my MM down turpin dike to go hunt ducks.

from the sounds of it, MMs arent going to be restricted to only inside WMAs. with the rising water, rich hansen said he wouldnt be suprised if the lake water levels was up against the dike this fall. MMs will be able to go hunt the GSL once again!!  im just waiting to hear your reports, studies and findings this fall and how disgusted you are with the MMs hunting areas that they havent been able to hunt in years! o-||


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Rules and regulations are subject to change all the time, in response to changing conditions, public input, new information, etc. I'll continue expressing my opinions on the MM issue inside our WMAs, thank you very much.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Here's what high water may bring......probably not this year but this is what it has done in the past. I believe the photo with the power lines is Farmington Bay area???


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

puddler69 said:


> I'll continue expressing my opinions on the MM issue inside our WMAs, thank you very much.


oh, i highly doubt that...


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

Fowlmouth said:


> Here's what high water may bring......probably not this year but this is what it has done in the past. I believe the photo with the power lines is Farmington Bay area???


 :shock: -)O(- those are kind of depressing photos... i dont want THAT much water! :lol:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> Public opinion and science will drive the DWR's decisions. .


you might want to go read through all the deer threads in the big game section then you will learn those factors don't always factor much into the Wildlfie boards decisions.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2011)

Mojo1 said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > Public opinion and science will drive the DWR's decisions. .
> ...


mojo has a very good point! honestly, the public has no influence on what the WB decides. they have their minds made up way before the public has a chance to say what they want.

do you think the state of utah is willing to take the loss of money that all those MMs and ABs bring in each year when the owner has to pay taxes and licenses to make them legal?... my guess is no. they make alot of money off those kind of things. they arent about to make any more laws that will discourage people from buying or using them


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> Here's what high water may bring......probably not this year but this is what it has done in the past. I believe the photo with the power lines is Farmington Bay area???


yep, FB alright. later that year after the ice started to move, it sheared nearly every electrical tower right out of their footings. there is a dike there now to help keep taht from happening again.

water, water and MORE water... keep in mind the flooding that is happening now is just from the recent storms, the snow pack continues to build for the most part. -)O(-


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I wouldn't mind it up to the dikes at Farmington, or even a foot deep there. How deep does it need to be to kill phrag if it's salty?


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

The general consensus is that it has to be at least 18" deep in the phrag for about 3 years (even if if has high salinity). Higher water keeps the stalons from attaching as they spread out though. So higher water has a somewhat beneficial effect on the spread of phrag, but overall it just waters the stuff.
R


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## Billcollector (Oct 31, 2007)

Some of you guys that are trying to be MM advocates need to think before you type. There are people on here that will think all boat/MM users think, and act like you. 

If you haven't noticed by now, the anti-MM's will take any opportunity to interject the motorless subject, and are trying to get it exposure. There is no need for us to help them with that.

If you love your MM like me, it might be better to leave the arguing to the people who can do it a little more intelligently.


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## drakebob01 (Jun 25, 2008)

I would much rather have too much water than not enough!


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## Guest (May 31, 2011)

They will have new food out there for them to loaf around and many hunters wont get to them


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2011)

one great thing about all the high water this year is it will spread out alot of hunters and give most of us plenty of room... but theres always that one guy who has to crowd out the other guy just because they got beat to their favorite spot.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

One thing it may bring is some opportunities for a flooded timber hunt.

Is this Arkansas or Utah? :shock:

[attachment=0:29ldxpeh]arkansas or utah.JPG[/attachment:29ldxpeh]


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

Joel Draxler said:


> One thing it may bring is some opportunities for a flooded timber hunt.
> 
> Is this Arkansas or Utah? :shock:
> 
> [attachment=0:3qbn57ag]arkansas or utah.JPG[/attachment:3qbn57ag]


cool pic Joel. makes me wounder what it will be like after the summer is over, should be interesting!!!!

BTW how is the woodies over in your neck of the woods doing???? good hatch rate I hope!!!!


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

stuckduck said:


> Joel Draxler said:
> 
> 
> > One thing it may bring is some opportunities for a flooded timber hunt.
> ...


Yeah me to. I imagine areas like that in the picture will be back down to dry ground. There is only ~8-12" of water in there right now, but it is enough to float through. I am sure we will have a lot of water in ponds that have been much smaller the last few years.

The wood ducks have done well, given the cold wet spring we have had. Not our best year, but still plenty of new birds coming out of the boxes.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Joel Draxler said:


> One thing it may bring is some opportunities for a flooded timber hunt.
> 
> Is this Arkansas or Utah? :shock:
> 
> [attachment=0:2q6m9n7x]arkansas or utah.JPG[/attachment:2q6m9n7x]


It ain't Arkansas, right now the water is a LOT deeper back there! :shock:


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

Sarcasm meeter broken Mojo?


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Joel Draxler said:


> Sarcasm meeter broken Mojo?


 :lol: Nope, last word I heard our duck blind back there was under 4 foot of water! It is usually 6ft above the water line! :shock:

I just hope it all drains off before it starts killing the timber.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

Yeah I hear y'alls family have a real mess on their hands down there. We have been very lucky thus far here in Utah. I expect things to only get worse if we get consistently warm weather. The high water does have it's downfalls around here as well. I couldn't make it under a bridge to go check wood duck boxes the other day, so I had to make lemonade out of lemons and go around it.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Lots of folks got flooded out, a lot of hunting camps were destoryed. A lot of crops aren't going in this year all down the Miss flyway. That = a lot less food for the birds when they come down this fall.

Our farm ground is pretty much dried out now, the hands are running full out planting now, although its gonna be a late haverest for us. Our timber patches are still flooded up, been flooded a little over a month now, we may be able to go a few more weeks before we start losing trees to it, usually takes a couple of months to kill'em. As long as it is only a few that die off, it is not that big of deal, just makes new holes to hunt out of.


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