# Zion sheep hunt and 5 day state wide deer hunt,,Board meetin



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Heres the link to some of the changes made by the Utah WildLife Board this week.......

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13921749


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

@#$& SFW........I wish they would get thier @#$%ing hands out of the states pocket. One Small group of poeple changing hunting for thousands is wrong. I will no longer buy a utah deer rifle tag. My money will now be spent out of state. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 

If the number of deer killed during a 5 day verses a nine day is no different then why change it to five days? :evil: :evil:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=22042


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Remember, you heard it here first folks :wink:  
http://utahwildlife.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21915


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm ok with the changes. Does it mean that the delayed start on the low buck to doe units has been done away with?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

The WB ignored the data and the biology when they chose to restrict deer hunters to 5 days on the general hunt. The data shows that more deer are killed during a 5 day hunt than a 9 day hunt...this is NOT a good change!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> The WB ignored the data and the biology when they chose to restrict deer hunters to 5 days on the general hunt. The data shows that more deer are killed during a 5 day hunt than a 9 day hunt...this is NOT a good change!


+1


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> I'm ok with the changes. Does it mean that the delayed start on the low buck to doe units has been done away with?


Since all the general season hunts are 5 days, they will all start/end on the same dates.


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## ramrod (Apr 15, 2008)

last year I was so mad what they did with the spike elk hunt. I chose not to give the DWR any donations. I used that money to apply for out of state tags as my way to protest.

If the board makes changes that make hunters happy make a donation and let them know why. even if it a small one.

If they make what you feel is a bad move do what I do and don’t give them anything. If more hunters would do this we might get there attention instead of having there attention focused on special interest groups.

Will I give the DWR any donations next year? I will make my mind up after I read next years guide book


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## 2-Fer (Oct 29, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> The WB ignored the data and the biology when they chose to restrict deer hunters to 5 days on the general hunt. The data shows that more deer are killed during a 5 day hunt than a 9 day hunt...this is NOT a good change!


 Hey, just wondering where you were getting that data from. I would be interested in seeing it.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

2-Fer said:


> wyoming2utah said:
> 
> 
> > The WB ignored the data and the biology when they chose to restrict deer hunters to 5 days on the general hunt. The data shows that more deer are killed during a 5 day hunt than a 9 day hunt...this is NOT a good change!
> ...


http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/07-10/deer_elk.php


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## 2-Fer (Oct 29, 2007)

Thank you sir.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

> Since all the general season hunts are 5 days, they will all start/end on the same dates.


Actually, the under objective units will have a 3 day season. They will open on the same day as the rest of the units (no delayed opener).

In addition, we got statewide archery back, but nearly lost half of our archery deer season. I think both keeping our season length (for both archery and muzzleloader) and statewide archery (for reasons detailed below) is going to be a huge fight next year.

The wildlife board also directed the mule deer committee to revist micro-managed hunting units. The direction given is that the board wants to see it happen and the committee is tasked to work out the kinks and details (lifetime licenses, dedicated hunter, statewide archery, etc). Working out those details is going to be a huge mess.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

So in 2008 the DWR puts numbers together and figures out that less deer are killed during a 9 day hunt then a five day hunt and made changes for 2009 to go back to a nine day hunt across the state. Then SFW stands up and wants a five day hunt and they give it to them.

They must have alot a knee pads with holes in them.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

cklspencer said:


> So in 2008 the DWR puts numbers together and figures out that less deer are killed during a 9 day hunt then a five day hunt and made changes for 2009 to go back to a nine day hunt across the state. Then SFW stands up and wants a five day hunt and they give it to them.
> 
> They must have alot a knee pads with holes in them.


Just a clarification...the DWR wanted to keep the hunts at 9-day. The DWR doesn't believe a 5-day hunt benefits deer; they believe that changing the hunt from a 9-day hunt to a 5-day hunt is a feel-good regulation for a lot of hunters. The Wildlife Board is the decision making board when it comes to wildlife regulations and policies...they, the WB, on the other hand, voted against the DWR's position and made the change. SFW lobbied hard to the WB to get their way...so, the "they" in the statement "they give it to them" is actually the WB and not the DWR.

I am going to be very interested to see the harvest numbers for 2009...


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification. So another words we have retarded board members and need to get someone who will see hunters of utah as a whole and not just some $#%@ up orginization.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I think so....Tom Hatch, for example, is bad news. He is a guy who pushed to get on to the WB after his relatives were arrested for poaching. How can a guy with such a huge conflict of interest be good for wildlife? The problem with our management regulation making system is that it is too political...


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> 2-Fer said:
> 
> 
> > wyoming2utah said:
> ...


did the 5-day and 9-day units rotate during the 1999-2006 time span???


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## Shep (Sep 21, 2007)

> So in 2008 the DWR puts numbers together and figures out that less deer are killed during a 9 day hunt then a five day hunt and made changes for 2009 to go back to a nine day hunt across the state. Then SFW stands up and wants a five day hunt and they give it to them.


So the question I have is this: What was SFW's reasoning for having a 5 day hunt vs. the 9 day hunts? Because if the DWR studies showed that more deer tend to get killed during the 5 day hunts what were the benefits to both the wildlife & UT sportsman that they supplied to make the board vote the way they did?
Without having some knowledge of why the SFW pushed for 5 day hunts I don't see how this change benefits anyone or anything?


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## FLY741 (Nov 30, 2007)

Nobody will ever flippin know how many deer are killed be it 5 day or 9 day hunts until they do a 100% mandatory harvest report. So, until then I dont buy the hoohaw about "the same amount of bucks are being killed on the 5 day vs 9 day hunts". I'm glad they went to a 5 day hunt it's just four days less stress on the heard.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

> What was SFW's reasoning for having a 5 day hunt vs. the 9 day hunts? Because if the DWR studies showed that more deer tend to get killed during the 5 day hunts what were the benefits to both the wildlife & UT sportsman that they supplied to make the board vote the way they did?


Because they don't believe the DWR's statistics.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I saw this 5 day general rifle deer hunt coming like a wild heard of elephants!!

I just wish antler restrictions were not so looked down to the point we won't even 
give them a try!! just one year with a longer season for more time and opportunity.
I KNOW,,I KNOW, Every study ever done says they don't work...

But dose any one out there have a clue how much better hunters and deer would
both be off? if just for one year "2010" we had a 3 point or better, 9 day rifle hunt?

I have argued this point for months with everybody and there dog,,,,,
Antler restricts are BETTER than shortened seasons! Go back and read how many times I've said that on this forum alone ,,.
Let alone every where else Ive been.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> I think so....Tom Hatch, for example, is bad news. He is a guy who pushed to get on to the WB after his relatives were arrested for poaching. How can a guy with such a huge conflict of interest be good for wildlife? The problem with our management regulation making system is that it is too political...


Add Keele Johnson to the list of WB members with MAJOR conflicts of interest AND ethical questions. These two guys sit together at the meetings and ignore the public. BOTH are a joke, NEITHER has a clue about game management, BOTH are arrogant, BOTH are ignorant, and BOTH are former state lawmakers who got their seats on the WB because of political connections. I call these two "Dumb and Dumber".

Ben, what was the 'reasoning' for a 3 day hunt? How many dear are killed after the first weekend? Talk about stupidity. Now the WB in all it's 'wisdom' gave a directive to the DWR to break it down to units instead of regions, which means it WILL happen, cluster #&$^# be damned. :evil:


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

The WB is the biggest threat to wildlife and as usual, SFW is against hunters that don't throw thousands of dollars their way. Its easy to understand why poaching is becoming so common.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Shep said:


> So the question I have is this: What was SFW's reasoning for having a 5 day hunt vs. the 9 day hunts?


To push the whole state to LE only. Dollars and horns after that.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

You are correct huntaholic,,,,,,As archerben has already pointed out,
"The board directed the deer committee to looker into micro-units further"

This is a step toward making the ENTIRE state limited entry for deer,,,,,,,,,,
Mark my words and this post,,,General season is slowly, but surely going away!


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> You are correct huntaholic,,,,,,As archerben has already pointed out,
> "The board directed the deer committee to looker into micro-units further"
> 
> This is a step toward making the ENTIRE state limited entry for deer,,,,,,,,,,
> Mark my words and this post,,,General season is slowly, but surely going away!


It's been going away since the LE hunt got here. LE was the method to get the same dollars with less people. Now all they a trying to figure is how to roll the whole state. They have found their window now and here it comes.

And it will not just be deer.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

Man, I hope you guys are wrong, but your logic seems pretty solid....... :shock:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I just wish antler restrictions were not so looked down to the point we won't even
> give them a try!! just one year with a longer season for more time and opportunity.
> I KNOW,,I KNOW, Every study ever done says they don't work...


Yep, maybe we should just keep trying and trying and trying while expecting different results. :lol:

Goofy, from a biological standpoint it doesn't work. If you only tried it for one year then it's a bandaid and then you're back where you started from.

Other states micro-manage their deer herds, but I'm not quite sure yet if that is the answer here in Utah.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> To push the whole state to LE only


General Season already is LE. I know guys who don't draw a GS deer tag every year.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > To push the whole state to LE only
> 
> 
> General Season already is LE. I know guys who don't draw a GS deer tag every year.


Well I guess that all they are missing is 300 dollars per tag with 5 guys being lucky to draw.


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Ben, Where did you read this: " In addition, we got statewide archery back, but nearly lost half of our archery deer season."

I REALLY HOPE you're BSing us!!!! All I have heard about the archers, is getting back the statewide, and adding Citycreek to the archery only section. 

I am/was looking forward to getting back into archery deer hunting next year :?


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Elkoholic8 said:


> Ben, Where did you read this: " In addition, we got statewide archery back, but nearly lost half of our archery deer season."
> 
> I REALLY HOPE you're BSing us!!!! All I have heard about the archers, is getting back the statewide, and adding Citycreek to the archery only section.
> 
> I am/was looking forward to getting back into archery deer hunting next year :?


Good luck, you will need it, in the draw.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

Elkoholic8 said:


> Ben, Where did you read this: " In addition, we got statewide archery back, but nearly lost half of our archery deer season."
> 
> I REALLY HOPE you're BSing us!!!! All I have heard about the archers, is getting back the statewide, and adding Citycreek to the archery only section.
> 
> I am/was looking forward to getting back into archery deer hunting next year :?


He means that the archers and the muzzleloader hunters missed getting their hunting days cut by 45% by one vote and next you if you don't stand up they are **** sure we will be losing 45% of our days afield. Because as keele put it if the rifle hunters have to give so do the rest of us. Well then I say if it needs to be fair split the tags up evenly between all weapons and that alone will help the deer herds more than any plan out there. (OH wait that won't work since the archers kill more deer than the rifle hunters do :roll:.). This wB is F'ed up and it is very sad.


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. 

Yes this WB is VERY MESSED UP. I went to the North region RAC meeting this past October, and It just pisses me off that the board just blew off what the biologist recomended. As was stated earlier in this thread, we should just do away with the whole process, keep the officers patroling instead of wasting their time at meetings, and just let SFW decide who can hunt and what day they can hunt. 
Yes, I agree SFW does do alot for wildlife and I can't fault them for that, but they sure do ALOT for themselves and what they believe is best for us. I like your idea of splitting the tags equally, into 3 groups and let that handle the numbers of deer. Then again if we have an extra 5 more hunters go down south then we'll see the overcrowding issue again and get the statewide hunt taken away...again. 
Do other states fight and dick around this much when it comes to making up their laws???


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

The WB doesn't sound like very intelligent people. They sound like a bunch of panty waist morons that can't think for themselves. SFW is the biggest joke to hit this state so far. I think i will just shoot all the nice deer i see form now on and dis-regard the laws. What's the difference? The DWR needs to get rid of these idiots and run the show the way it should be. They will NEVER get a dime from me!
SFW= Sportsman Funding the Worthless :evil:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I will probably get slammed for this, but why are archers complaining about this proposal. The rifle hunters are the ones who got hosed. Their hunt has been reduced to 5 days statewide.

I think you all survived by having to pick a region last year. (I didn't agree with the overcrowding issue.)

1.You get to hunt from Aug 16th to December 31st. 
2. It's less crowded 
3. The deer are still stupid during most of your hunting season
4. The Wasatch Front produces trophy bucks like the LE units
5. You get to hunt statewide (last year after September 1st)

What more can an archer ask for then those 5 things listed????

Ok bash away. I get tired of all the whinning coming from the archers.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I wonder if at the RMF meetings the SFW guys get to get up from their table first and serve themselves the prime rib before the general public. Then when it is the general publics turn to partake of the food all that is left is green beens? Sure seems that way now.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

CS, archery is my choice of weapon but I'm a hunter first and don't want to see any opportunity taken away regardless of weapon used. Hunters would give up hunting for a period of time, take shorter seasons if it actually benefited wildlife. This doesn't help keep hunters hunting, this doesn't keep family and friends hunting together and according to the biologist and the DWR this does not help wildlife!
I've heard so much about poaching and guys saying they are not buying tags. That they'll take a few deer from one tag, and a bunch more just in the last few days, I really think some will follow through and anymore I don't blame them. If they do, I won't encourage it but I won't report it either. I've had enough of SFW and the WB that hunting ethics have gone out the door. They'll have things so screwed up in the next few years that I longer care who tosses a few extra hides in the river or shoots a buck in January. I'll be the chimp covering my eyes mouth and ears.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> I will probably get slammed for this, but why are archers complaining about this proposal. The rifle hunters are the ones who got hosed. Their hunt has been reduced to 5 days statewide.
> 
> I think you all survived by having to pick a region last year. (I didn't agree with the overcrowding issue.)
> 
> ...


CS I am not complaining about the archery hunt and I hear very few archers that do complain about it. I am complaining about the rifle hunters that complain and then think the archers are part of the problem. I am saying they give the archers a third of the tags and then they will see how much the archers will help the herds with reduced harvest. I was in the SE unit this year to guide a new hunter and I was in an area I never hunted and in 2 and a half days I saw at least 3 deer opening morning that 95% of all utah hunters would be more than happy with and 8 total that at least 75% would take and I didn't even try that hard. From what I have heard there are no shootable deer in the SE unit so they must be looking for 180+ bucks and that I must say I did not see but I am sure I could have found some if I wanted to. I am also mad as hell when a WB says " well the numbers don't say a 5 day is better than a 9 day but people feel like the 5 day helps so that is what we are going to do" *\-\* *\-\* *\-\*.

Believe me I love my archery hunt and I know the deer are out there I just need to find them.


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

CS, I 'm an archer who is complaining, because I have a wife and two kids who love to hunt as well and it effect them more than me, but it still effects me. ANY LOSS of hunting seasons, is not a good thing. SFW cut the rifle hunt this year, next year who knows what will be cut, but I'm sure it won't be the cost of a tag!! This stuff isn't getting any cheaper and the success rates are'nt getting any better. 

I don't bowhunt to fill a tag, I bowhunt for the challenge. Yes the deer win more than me.

As for your statement of "you guys get from August till December to fill a tag", here is my reply; you should try it, because anyone who thinks "oh hell, you guys get 3 &1/2 months to fill a tag" has obviously never tried it!!! This hunt is rewarding, but it is very difficult. Anyone who tells you different is high, or increadibly lucky!! And yes, CS I know your in a chair and can't actually try it so I don't know how to describe a comparitable situation for you.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

Sorry I've been slow to respond, I haven't looked at this site all weekend.



> Ben, what was the 'reasoning' for a 3 day hunt? How many dear are killed after the first weekend? Talk about stupidity. Now the WB in all it's 'wisdom' gave a directive to the DWR to break it down to units instead of regions, which means it WILL happen, cluster #&$^# be damned.


I believe this has more to do with how the current deer plan manages the under-objective units than anything. Anis stated that the DWR would like to see the under-objective units shortened 3 days since the general season was shortened to 5 days.



> Ben, Where did you read this: " In addition, we got statewide archery back, but nearly lost half of our archery deer season."


I didn't read this, I watched it happen. After the WB passed the 5 day rifle season, they tried to shorten the muzzleloader and archery seasons by 45%. The vote was 2 for, 3 against. At least two of the three that voted against it stated that they didn't have the information to support this now, but next year their coming back "with my guns loaded, because everybody should share in the concessions."



> I get tired of all the whinning coming from the archers.


I get tired of the rifle hunters whining about how good the archers have it. With all the extra oppurtunity we get, we still kill 15% less deer per thousand rifle or muzzleloader hunters! If bowhunters have it so good, then why don't the rifle hunters pick up a bow and come join us?



> And yes, CS I know your in a chair and can't actually try it so I don't know how to describe a comparitable situation for you.


This is in no way a bash against CS or anybody in a wheelchair for that matter, rather a statement of overcoming a handicap to shoot a bow. I know several people in wheelchairs that shoot a bow, some better than many fully functioning individuals. In addition to that, I met a bowhunter about 7 years ago who was missing both arms from the shoulder down. Yes, I said a bowhunter with no arms. He had a bow rigged up to shoot with his feet and a chew strap.

The problem as I see it is that rifle hunters become jealous of all of the oppurtunities that bowhunters get and start arguing that it's somehow not fair. However, they fail to realize that we get all of those oppurtunities because of our reduced impact on the herds. It is a proven fact that you can provide virtually unlimited archery oppurtunity while maintaining and even improving quality and a healthy deer herd. You don't have to look any further than the Wasatch Front archery only area to see that. From a management stand point, archery is a tool that biologists can use to provide increased hunting oppurtunity without sacrificing the health of the deer herd. In addition, giving bowhunters these extra oppurtunities makes bowhunting attractive to many people who otherwise would be hunting with a rifle. If you start taking these oppurtunities away, many of those people are going to put their bows down and jump back into the rifle pool, thus making it even more difficult to draw a rifle tag. I really wish that people in general would stop looking at the different weapon hunts as equal, but rather as what kind of a management tool they actually are. Rifles and muzzleloaders are very efficient at killing (I lumped these two together because they have the same success rate) and are a great population management tool. On the other hand, you cannot manage a population with archery tackle due to the limited range and low success rate of a bowhunter. In fact, this was stated almost word for word at the WB meeting last week by a DWR biologist (I forget which one). For that reason, archery tackle is a great management tool for providing oppurtunity. In this state which demands oppurtunity over all else (based on the deer survey done a little over a year ago), why would we possibly want to limit oppurtunity where there is no biological reason or benefit to do so?


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

SFW=treehugers

They limity hunting (have been since they started)
They limit oppertunity (have been since they started)
They are against the majority of hunters as a whole.
:mrgreen:


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