# Scouts should fish



## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

It just dosent make sence to me why the DWR charges Scouts to fish. I'm a scout master and many of the boys we work with dont come from homes that do outdoors activities. Thus we are there only exposure to these things. The problem is we dont have the budget to purchase licences to take them all fishing or hunting. This week we worked on the fishing merit badge and the boys want to fish so they can finish it. For the 12-13 year olds its five bucks which isnt horible but for our boys 14+ its the full price or we have to pay for a day use. The DWR states that licence sales are down; it seems to me that if we could take these boys many of them would grow up to be paying adults if given the opertuinity to expericance what the outdoors has for them. I know there's a free fishing day but if every scout fished on that day only the fishing pressure alone would keep them from catching. I'm thinking we need to lobby our law makers to allow scouts to fish and access the states other resourses with their leaders and within reason at no charge. I find it very frustrating as a leader to not be able to use the states resourses to benefit these boys because of the prohibitive costs.


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

Mavis13 said:


> It just dosent make sence to me why the DWR charges Scouts to fish. I'm a scout master and many of the boys we work with dont come from homes that do outdoors activities. Thus we are there only exposure to these things. The problem is we dont have the budget to purchase licences to take them all fishing or hunting. This week we worked on the fishing merit badge and the boys want to fish so they can finish it. For the 12-13 year olds its five bucks which isnt horible but for our boys 14+ its the full price or we have to pay for a day use. The DWR states that licence sales are down; it seems to me that if we could take these boys many of them would grow up to be paying adults if given the opertuinity to expericance what the outdoors has for them. I know there's a free fishing day but if every scout fished on that day only the fishing pressure alone would keep them from catching. I'm thinking we need to lobby our law makers to allow scouts to fish and access the states other resourses with their leaders and within reason at no charge. I find it very frustrating as a leader to not be able to use the states resourses to benefit these boys because of the prohibitive costs.


Very good point...I'd be more than willing to donate some money for your troop or other troops. Just let me know. Experiencing all 4-seasons is whats it's about including teaching skills they could use as they grow and have their own families...and one day Dad whats to take his family out ice fish'n and he'll without a doubt reflect back on what he learned to share the experience with his family of a great time he had.

Sounds like a noble effort maybe UWN'rs who could help with could consider dontating too. We're willing.... :wink: :wink:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Sorry Mavis13...I can't agree with. 

What happened to old fashion 'elbow grease' ? We used to have 'drives' for scrap iron, clean out ditch'es, cut lawns, have raffles when we went places. Yellowstone, Little Sahara, tons of trips into the Uintas. None of these trips were a direct cause of charity, but from hard work and involvement with the scouts, neighbors and church. You could use these same type of 'drives' to purchase fishing licenses. 
Not only did everybody benefit, but everybody felt to have earned it.

Now....where do you plan to stop this charity ? Just at the Boy Scout level ? How about foreigners, unemployed people, people on food stamps, military and their family's, missionaries, minority's, people in high tax brackets, people in low tax brackets..blah, blah, blah. 

Like I said, sorry, I'm totally against something like this.


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## Bhilly81 (Oct 18, 2009)

well i agree with with all of you. I grew up mostly with my dad out of work so we couldn't do alot of fun stuff and as well as my dad wasn't the outdoorsy type so we didn't really get to get out much but with the scouts that's where i started to learn everything about the outdoors and we did alot of fundraisers and we earned our way mostly but we also had an obligation to pay a certain amount towards the trip but without the scouts i would probably be like my dad was but now we were able to take my dad out and teach him a lot of stuff that we have learned from the scouts and now sometimes he out does us which is great and now im able to pass all that i learned to my son who already at this point loves to go fishing with me and also begs me to take him hunting as well 

so i would also like to help donate as long as the scouts would be willing to earn some of there own as well


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## dank80 (Oct 31, 2007)

Ask those same kids who can't afford a license how much money they spent last year on video games.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I guess I need to be more clear I'm not looking for donations we'll cover the costs via our budget. But I thank those of you who have offered. If you have a desire to support scouts I'd highly recommend supporting your local troop not just with monetary donations but donating some time teaching is very helpful. Scouts just isn't the same as it was when I was young. We were expected to pay for things also but now we are not allowed to ask the boys to bring money, we are allowed only one fundraiser a year which we generally get good support for and we do use that to pay for our trips in the summer. We've done Kings Peak, canoeing in Yellowstone, Moab, and various trips closer. We do mow laws and rake leaves and pull weeds but we don't allow payment for those things. The boys know that's what one does in a community; we take care of each other. My complaint is simply that the DWR continuity advertises the “Take me fishing” and so on slogans but has no program so we can expose the youth to these things. I'm not thinking there should be a free for all but a program in place that allows the boys to earn their mertbages with out the additional complication of excessive costs. We won't go enough as a Troop to justify the cost of licenses we simply wish to teach and expose the boys to these things. If then they find they like it and wish to do more they should have to purchase licenses like everyone else.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

> I'm not thinking there should be a free for all but a program in place that allows the boys to earn their merit badges with out the additional complication of excessive costs


Mavis13....have you approached the DNR or the DWR with such a notion ? I can really see something like that taking place, similar to the Dedicated program for hunters. I wouldn't know what would be available or even how to suggest such a thing, but I think you should give them a call....

I know you're in a tough spot, scouting isn't cheap !! Good luck to you !!


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## BerryNut (Dec 29, 2008)

I agree scouts isnt the same as it used to be. I also see the need for such programs as mentioned here. I would hope that if this was brought to the attention of the DWR they would create some by law that would allow scouts to fish without license as long as there were multiple adults with valid licenses. Maybe also the scout leaders would need some kind of proof they were in fact scout leaders. very interesting topic and I'm glad this was brought to the attention of the forum. Good luck and keep us posted on what we can do to help


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

A couple of thoughts on this.
First,
The DWR doesn't make laws. Please don't make them the fall guy for things like this.
Second,
This is being looked at and the DWR does support no fee one day fishing activities for youth.
As already mentioned, who do you leave out if a law is made to allow kids to fish for free.
How old is too old for this? [14, 16. 18?]
What youth organizations do you leave out?
Boys and Girls Club, Four H, Church Civic Clubs, School Field Trips, etc?

I do think that it groups like the Scouts go about it properly, there will be an exemption for one day youth fishing.
It just takes people willing to get involved to make it happen.
Send emails to State Reps, attend RAC meetings, work with the Scout Leaders to request a free fishing permit from the State.

This can work and will work if there is enough support shown.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

What about the ponds at scout camps, do these fall under DWR rules? Why couldnt scouts fish free there?


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## JAT83 (Sep 9, 2007)

A lot of really good points brought up here. I personally think that when one works hard for something they cherish it that much more. Putting myself back 12 years when I was in scouts I always purchased a fishing license that I worked hard to get. If you think about it, all it takes is mowing 3 or 4 lawns to get enough for an annual fishing license.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Just an FYI, there was a legislative proposal 2 years ago to allow scouts to fish free when on supervised trips. It was not passed. I do not know if it failed to get out of committee or was voted down by the body of the legislature.

I can see both sides of this issue, and to be honest, I don't know if I have decided which way I would come down on this, but here are some things that jump out to me. (some have been mentioned by others)

1. Where is the line drawn if the scouts are allowed this exemption? Girl scouts, boys clubs, ymca, high school or college students taking a flyfishing class? Also, since most of our scout units are sponsored by the LDS and other churches, is there a problem with separation of church and state with such a law?

2.


Mavis13 said:


> We've done Kings Peak, canoeing in Yellowstone, Moab, and various trips closer.


How much is a 1 or 5 day fishing license when compared to the overall cost per boy in such ambitious trips? Rather minimal IMO. Also, experience has shown that scout and YM groups will frequently go on weekly activities that will cost $5-10 per boy. How is this different than a fishing trip where they also pay a similar fee?

3. Having served in some administrative positions with regards to Scout unit sponsorship, I do know that the mechanism is already in place to pay for a financially needy boy to participate in camps and activities through the sponsoring unit.

4


.45 said:


> Sorry Mavis13...I can't agree with.
> 
> What happened to old fashion 'elbow grease' ? We used to have 'drives' for scrap iron, clean out ditch'es, cut lawns, have raffles when we went places. Yellowstone, Little Sahara, tons of trips into the Uintas. None of these trips were a direct cause of charity, but from hard work and involvement with the scouts, neighbors and church. You could use these same type of 'drives' to purchase fishing licenses.
> Not only did everybody benefit, but everybody felt to have earned it.


This is a hugely valid point. What are we teaching our boys
if we are begging the State for a gimmie?

5. Conversely, if it could be shown to ultimately increase license purchases, then it could be a positive "marketing strategy" by the DWR and state.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Just an FYI, there was a legislative proposal 2 years ago to allow scouts to fish free when on supervised trips.


Catherder is correct. There was a bill that started off letting scouts fish for free on scout outings (trips with required tour permits) and then it was extended to girl scouts as well, to keep things fair. And then it got tweeked to include any non-profit organization. Which essentially meant that any church group could go fishing and not need lisences.

I very actively campaigned against this bill, working closely with the bill sponsor - the senator from St. George, as well as my own representatives. At the time, I was a scoutmaster, and as such, oppossed the bill.

My feeling was, and still is, that while well intentioned, the messege it sent was that if you belong to a special group, you should expect to be exempt from laws that others have to obey. I found that to be exactly contrary to the teachings of the scouting organization. Special clubs of any kind, even BSA, should not be exempt from the law. I'd much favor a fund raiser or each kid hustling a lawn mowing or shoveling of a driveway to earn the money. Given a week's notice, any kid ought to be able to hustle up $25 doing odd jobs if they really want something.

I am a HUGE scouter and also a fisherman. And I like the intent of getting kids out to fish. And if cost is an issue for a kid, send him my way. I've got some yard work he can do to earn some bucks for his license. And if he does a really good job, I'd be likely to get him his own fishing pole as well.


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