# Wounded game search & recovery using tracking dogs?



## Tatyana (Sep 14, 2007)

Another post got me curious about this. I have a tracking dog and a tracking friend from a different state mentioned that she was often hired during the hunting season to help find and recover wounded game. Does Utah allow such game recovery?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Not if you use a dog. Page 46 of the guide book.


> Use of dogs
> Utah Code § 23-20-3 & Utah Admin. Code R657-5-16
> Dogs may not be used to take, chase, harm or harass big game.


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

Doesn't take mean to shoot the animal? Or does it mean the whole process of shooting it, cleaning it, and loadin it in the truck?


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

You would not be using your dog to take, chase, harm, or harass a game animal if you have a breed that tracks on lead. I would have no problem using your dog to track a wounded game animal. I would assume your dog is on lead (I have a Draht), and that you would be in total control of the dog. It wouldn't be like a hound dog, running through the forest to chase anything in sight. I would use mine to track an animal I shot. Once again, on lead, and in my control all the time. Remember it is also against the law to let a game animal go to waste, and if your controlled dog can help you find that wounded animal, more power to you.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I would leave all archery equipment and firearms at home and just go take a walk with my dog in the same area where it was shot. If you wanted to be extra careful, just leave the carcass there return the dog and go back and get it w/o the dog; although I don't think it is necessary. Just call the DWR office in that region and keep that person's name handy.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I've got a WPG that's a decent blood tracker as well. I'd have a heckuva lot better chance at tracking a wounded animal with him on the trail. I don't really dare do it precisely because the only thing mentioned about dogs in the proclamation is what Loke quoted.


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## snobiller22 (Sep 25, 2007)

A few years back one of my buddy's had lost the trail of a buck he had shot. I had my lab and wimie in camp, so the next morning we took them out just to see if they could find it. Well a half hour later we had found the buck around 500-600 yards from where he had shot the buck. I really don't think we would have found him if it weren't for the dogs. Well on the way back to camp i started to think maybe i should have checked the proc first. So when i got back to camp, it said the same thing stated before but it also had the word "recover" in the sentence too. Kind of dumb that i didn't check before, but then again not sure we would have found the buck after having 4 guys on horses and 6 others on the ground searching and still couldn't find it.



"Use of dogs
Utah Code § 23-20-3 & Utah Admin. Code R657-5-16
Dogs may not be used to take, chase, harm or harass big game."

I wonder if it's ok to "recover" or "locate" dead game with a dog. I don't think take, chase, harm or harass fall under recover or locate dead game. Kind of a grey area i guess


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

My view is that you have two scenarios:

1- The animal you shot is dead. So use of the dog would be in the "take" side of things.

2 - The animal you shot is not dead. So use of the dog would be considered "chase" or "harass". 

I guess there is a third scenario -
3 - Dog gets on scent of an animal you didn't shoot - gets on the wrong thing. In that case, you'd be chasing or harassing another big game animal with your dog.

So in any case, I don't see how it would be legal as things are written know. But that's just me.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

Here's the definition of "Take", taken from page 83 of the 2009 Big Game Proclamation:



> Take means to:
> hunt, pursue, harass, catch, capture, possess, angle, seine, trap or kill any protected wildlife; or
> attempt any of the above actions.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't care what the regs say. If I ever found myself in need of a tracking dog I would "release tho hounds" in a heartbeat. It's ethical and it works provided you have a dog that knows what he's doing. If they catch me, fine, gimmy a ticket and I'll see you in court.


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I don't care what the regs say. If I ever found myself in need of a tracking dog I would "release tho hounds" in a heartbeat. It's ethical and it works provided you have a dog that knows what he's doing. If they catch me, fine, gimmy a ticket and I'll see you in court.


A HUGE +1 on that one Tex.


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## bloodtrail (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't have a tracking dog, but it sounds like this is a clarification in law that should be made. I doubt that there is anyone with half a brain that would oppose the use of a trained dog in a recovery effort especially if no weapons were carried. We need to find a way to get this law changed. Too many animals do not get found after honest efforts to locate them.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Laws that prohibit ethical hunting. Its what you get when people that don't understand the sport make all of the rules.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

At the same time, if dogs could be used to retrieve downed game, I'm sure some DAHB out there would run the deer/elk into the ground. Remember that most laws are designed for the 95% of decent people, they are for teh other 5% that ruin everything. The same ones that are running all over the hillsides, tearing things up with their four wheelers, drinking while hunting, shooting up the whole place and chasing deer in the winter on snowmobiles until they drop their sheds.


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

Lets just say I know someone that used a redbone/bloodhound mix to find a downed deer.... Shooter knew that the deer was dead as he was waiting for it to bleed out when an idiot on a 4 wheeler jumped up said deer and it was running dead.......... Dog was left on a lead the whole time and led him right to it without chasing or harassing any game.............. Here lies the problem....... It was illegal..... but.... the deer would not have been found without the dog and would have just gone to waste............So ethically the hunter felt the infraction was justified.... Sound off on what you think about this... :?:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> At the same time, if dogs could be used to retrieve downed game, I'm sure some *DAHB* out there would run the deer/elk into the ground.


Very good usage GaryFish...I'm proud of you !!! *\-\* *\-\*


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

plottrunner said:


> Lets just say I know someone that used a redbone/bloodhound mix to find a downed deer.... Shooter knew that the deer was dead as he was waiting for it to bleed out when an idiot on a 4 wheeler jumped up said deer and it was running dead.......... Dog was left on a lead the whole time and led him right to it without chasing or harassing any game.............. Here lies the problem....... It was illegal..... but.... the deer would not have been found without the dog and would have just gone to waste............So ethically the hunter felt the infraction was justified.... Sound off on what you think about this... :?:


Did that DAHB actually use his pet kangaroo to track? I think you have found a very nice loophole there!


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

plottrunner, I think a deer being shot and left to waste is a heckuva lot worse offense than using the dog to find the downed deer. My personal belief, all laws aside, is that the individual in your situation did the morally correct thing in using his dog responsibly to find the downed animal.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

If I had a tracking dog available on a lost animal, I'd use it in a heartbeat, too. Stupid law.


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## Tatyana (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks for all of the replies. I am not offering services of my dog even though he is an AKC titled tracking dog. He tracks on lead only; always under control. I have used him to track people but am sure he would do just as well with animal scent.

Based on the language from the proclamation, in my opinion, search and recovery of wounded game would not fall under "chase, harass, etc." But I have not done any additional research, so it's just my opinion. If I ever decide to help anybody, I'll try to learn more.


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

I think its time for a permitting system/licensing system for deer tracking dogs on leash. Someone needs to take this to the RAC. 

And its a new lucrative market for hound enthusiasts. Heck, watching the capitalistic competition would be interesting. 

How about no charge unless your animal is recovered? Or how about a discount for bowhunters?  Trade recovery for the half the meat (fresh only)?! Or they could charge more for more than 1 hound. Or they could tout their recovery percentages ("We had 100% recovery last year!"). Or they could advertise no extra charge for elk. How about a specialty hound for buffalo recovery?

This could get entertaining .........


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

+1


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Tatyana said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. I am not offering services of my dog even though he is an AKC titled tracking dog. He tracks on lead only; always under control. I have used him to track people but am sure he would do just as well with animal scent.
> 
> Based on the language from the proclamation, in my opinion, search and recovery of wounded game would not fall under "chase, harass, etc." But I have not done any additional research, so it's just my opinion. If I ever decide to help anybody, I'll try to learn more.


Unfortunatly it is not your opinion that matters. It is the opinion of the fish and game officers, and the judges that you would be summoned before, and in my experience, their opinion and yours would differ greatly.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> At the same time, if dogs could be used to retrieve downed game, d. *I'm sure some DAHB out there would run the deer/elk into the ground* Remember that most laws are designed for the 95% of decent people, they are for teh other 5% that ruin everything. The same ones that are running all over the hillsides, tearing things up with their four wheelers, drinking while hunting, shooting up the whole place and chasing deer in the winter on snowmobiles until they drop their sheds.


 :evil: I'm not sure I like your tone Gary!!! Them's fight'n words. :twisted:


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

I've tried such a thing... Mine was a bit different as I looked day after day for the buck I shot last year. itook my dogs up during the grouse hunt and tried to find it then also... Never did find it...

And the feller that thinks that these dogs will bother other game? I tell ya the majority won't! I train my dogs that it is hell to pay if they chase fur... but to roll in dead chit is something else....

I know a few guys with virstal dogs that do blood tracking. It could be a effective tool, and should be allowed.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

Your dogs don't chase fur?? Haha whatever buddy!!!!


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

Greenhead 2 said:


> Your dogs don't chase fur?? Haha whatever buddy!!!!





TAK said:


> I've tried such a thing... Mine was a bit different as I looked day after day for the buck I shot last year. itook my dogs up during the grouse hunt and tried to find it then also... Never did find it...
> 
> And the feller that thinks that these dogs will bother other game? *I tell ya the majority won't! I train my dogs that it is hell to pay if they chase fur*... but to roll in dead chit is something else....
> 
> I know a few guys with virstal dogs that do blood tracking. It could be a effective tool, and should be allowed.


Its called good training and control of your dog as long as it isn't a lab.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

It ain't my lab that has killed nine skunks this month. It wasn't my chessie or my english pointer either. My shorthair never chased fur until it got in a fight with a **** two years ago hunting pheasants in the basin, wanna guess who's dogs started the fight with the **** hmmm...? 
At least hunting with a weimerainer you'll never have to worry about skunks, ***** or even birds, chances are you'll find it before the dog does HAAAAAHAHA!!!! Just funnin ya, I like weims, they look good in pictures, pictures of dogs wearing top hats birthday hats and dressed up in suits! What the hell else ya gonna do with one hehe?


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

The weims were original bread to chase small game and fowl is what I have heard. The fur my dog likes chasing is the neighbors little barking ****zu and she has shreaded skunks when she was young. Now she knows not to touch anything like that unless I let her or else I might get western oh her.  She never has had the desire to chase cows, horses, or big game.

Its funny you mentioned the hats and stuff. When people ask what kind of dog I have I always tell them about the famous weims that were on sesame street doing math with the balls and in Honda car comercials dressed in clothes. But knowbody remembers seeing them so its usually a pointless way to explain what your dog looks like.

Does your shorthair only chase skunks? Or will she get some birds? :lol: At least your dog is doing your part of predator control so you might have a chance at still killing a pheasant or two in Utah.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

Just skunks, I had a weim about ten years ago. He was a nice dog but my GSP has way more drive than he did, my EP also hits the heavy brush and cattails harder. I explained what he was to people just like you do. When I told my dad I bought a weim, he told me I'd find more birds using a siamese cat! Glad we never bet I'd still be paying him.


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