# Shot in the dark



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Hey guys. I don't know how this will be received. I live in St. George and hunt the Pine Valley Unit. I've been hunting for a few years. I am not on here asking for anyone's secret spot, but just some focused direction. Maybe someone who doesn't have a tag this year? 

I am in my second year of dedicated hunter. I was out probably close to 35 days last year and never saw a buck worth putting my sights on of any weapon. It was a total bust. I know it was hot and I know we've been in a drought, but it was pretty discouraging by the end of the rifle hunt to be out all during archery, muzzleloader, early rifle and general rifle and not see a single decent buck. I was in a lot of places throughout the unit. I have not had any luck scouting this year. 

I am wondering if anyone has any good ideas about where to go? With opening day this weekend and not feeling confident in any of the places I've been, I don't know what to do. 

Any direction is appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

help me understand where you have already tried. 
Also, are you hiking vs. road-hunting? (or, what do you want to do?)


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> help me understand where you have already tried.
> Also, are you hiking vs. road-hunting? (or, what do you want to do?)


Thanks for reaching out. Last year I hunted in pockets of private at the base of bumble bee off highway 56, grass valley, various places off the road that goes to pinto just past central that wraps back to grass valley, quite a few places outside of enterprise like ox valley, off the dirt road between pine valley and central, and some place way up on Pine Valley Mountain I went with some buddies. I am not opposed to hiking. I like to increase my chances by getting away from all the road hunters, but I can't tell you how many times I'd hike miles to an area that looked roadless on OnXmaps just to find a road on the other side of a peak I would hike over. I'm up for anything if it means I'll have a good chance. I can't afford to be doing what I did last year though...going out almost every morning and hiking for hours and driving a ton just to find nothing.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Deer will most likely be keeping close to water this year. Keep that in mind.

I used to love hunting between Bumblebee Spring and the private land at the bottom of the mountain - especially on dry years. There are a lot of roads up there, but there are also a lot of areas without roads. If you're willing to hike into the scrub oak, you might be able to find something worthwhile. If you can find a pond that isn't getting a lot of vehicular / hunter traffic, then I'd just park myself on it and wait.

There are always a lot of deer down low close to the alfalfa fields across the freeway from Kanarraville, and all throughout New Harmony -- but, it's all private lands, so make sure you know what's off limits. I think this year might be a year to stay lower, rather than higher on the hills. Try catching something headed down to a field looking for water / feed.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Can you give us a rundown on what a full day looks like while you’re hunting?


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Can you give us a rundown on what a full day looks like while you’re hunting?
[/QUOTE]

You bet. I'm open to feedback from whoever wants to share experience. I have only been doing this for a few years now.

If its just a morning I can go out, I wake up real early, drive out to where I plan to hunt, carefully hike in to my glassing spot in the dark or with just a little light so I don't miss anything on the way in. I glass during the morning, sometimes moving to a couple spots for different vantage points until mid to late morning when I think they've bedded down based on the heat that day and then quietly bail out. If I can only get out in the afternoon/evening. I do the same thing--get out early to mid afternoon before I think they'll start moving again, glass up, see nothing (if its last year) and then come home defeated again.

If its a full day, I do the morning routine, hang tight or relocate during the late morning-early afternoon time and get ready to repeat for the evening.


----------



## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I may be talking out of turn since it's been years since I hunted the Pine Valley unit, but with dedicated I would probably try Paradise area and Comanche Canyon area if you are up to some rough country.

The Beaver Dam Mountains hold some big desert bucks but they are like ghosts, but I have seen some harvested.

The rest of the area will be pretty crowded, but that is all relative. If you are hunting the Bumblebee area I would go till the roads end and then keep going.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I can't offer anything specific to the unit but it sounds like you have been seeing deer. Just nothing worthy of your tag.

Unfortunately on a general unit you will need to sort through a lot of deer and country to turn up that "special deer". You are on the right track it sounds like. Sometimes it just takes a little luck (right time, right place) to turn up a bigger buck. There is a bit of experience that plays in when glassing to "see" deer that may not be apparent at first glance. Learn to pick apart the terrain you are looking at.

At least in my experience, I may not see "the buck" I would like to chase every year. More like every 2-3 years and the chances of getting that buck are pretty slim. They don't get big being stupid.

And last but not least there may not be but a very few bucks in your unit that meet your expectations whatever they are.


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

middlefork said:


> I can't offer anything specific to the unit but it sounds like you have been seeing deer. Just nothing worthy of your tag.
> 
> Unfortunately on a general unit you will need to sort through a lot of deer and country to turn up that "special deer". You are on the right track it sounds like. Sometimes it just takes a little luck (right time, right place) to turn up a bigger buck. There is a bit of experience that plays in when glassing to "see" deer that may not be apparent at first glance. Learn to pick apart the terrain you are looking at.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Unfortunately I didnt see many bucks last year. Some spikes, a handful of small 2 points, and one or two small 3's, but mostly just does. It was a tough year last year. So far this year I havent seen any bucks yet. Fingers crossed.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately I didnt see many bucks last year. Some spikes, a handful of small 2 points, and one or two small 3's, but mostly just does. It was a tough year last year. So far this year I havent seen any bucks yet. Fingers crossed.


Take a drive around the Vandenberg road in the evening. You'll see plenty. Then you can figure out a strategy, along with everyone else from Cedar with a PV tag....


Seriously -- the hills low on Bumblebee will be loaded with deer. Typically, the mature bucks will avoid the busy roads -- but they still have to have access to water. Hit those canyons without roads.


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> Take a drive around the Vandenberg road in the evening. You'll see plenty. Then you can figure out a strategy, along with everyone else from Cedar with a PV tag....
> 
> 
> Seriously -- the hills low on Bumblebee will be loaded with deer. Typically, the mature bucks will avoid the busy roads -- but they still have to have access to water. Hit those canyons without roads.


I appreciate the response. I don't see a road called Vandenberg on OnX or when I do a google maps search, but I'll keep looking. I not afraid of hiking away from people, so I'll start exploring.


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

bowgy said:


> I may be talking out of turn since it's been years since I hunted the Pine Valley unit, but with dedicated I would probably try Paradise area and Comanche Canyon area if you are up to some rough country.
> 
> The Beaver Dam Mountains hold some big desert bucks but they are like ghosts, but I have seen some harvested.
> 
> The rest of the area will be pretty crowded, but that is all relative. If you are hunting the Bumblebee area I would go till the roads end and then keep going.


Thanks. I would prefer to hunt more on the pine valley/enterprise side, but last year explored bumblebee more. I am coming from St. George, so the less distance I have to drive, the more time I can spend out there, but I'll go where I need to if my chances of finding something increase.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> I appreciate the response. I don't see a road called Vandenberg on OnX or when I do a google maps search...


Try: Vandenberghe


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> Try: Vandenberghe


Much appreciated. Do they tend to hang in the same area through muzzloader and rifle just because of the access to feed down low?


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

That's strange, I used to hunt the areas you and others in this thread are talking about and I would see nice bucks all the time. But that has been.....uh.....I just ran out of fingers to count on many years ago. Maybe it has gone downhill since then. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it has. My only advice is to keep grinding. You're not gonna kill one from home. Eventually you'll be in the right place at the right time and it'll happen.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

What type of buck are you will to shoot? What weapon do you feel most comfortable using?


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

ridgetop said:


> What type of buck are you will to shoot? What weapon do you feel most comfortable using?


I feel comfortable with bow muzzleloader and rifle. I would like a nice big typical 3 or 4. If I saw a cool non-typical that caught my eye I would consider that too.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> I feel comfortable with bow muzzleloader and rifle. I would like a nice big typical 3 or 4. If I saw a cool non-typical that caught my eye I would consider that too.


. You sound like your wanting to hold out for a 180" type buck. If that's the case, be prepared to eat tag soup for most of your life.


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm not stuck on a 180. I'd love one just like anyone else, but I'm not set on that. I sot a small 4 a couple years ago. I would like to shoot 150-160 at least


----------



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

"focused direction"...really?...ok, lets move on. I think you need to re-read Ridgetop's response a couple times more slowly. I have no problem with people passing on nice mature bucks waiting for a once in a lifetime buck, but you need to understand that in any given population of deer there are "normally" only a small number of these OIL guys running around. Nobody can tell you where you might run into him, but common sense tells you that the more deer there are in an area, the more large bucks there will be in and area. The bigger the buck, the smarter he will be, and the less you will see of him. He stays out of sight, he is the first to disappear when he senses you, he hides, he sneaks, and he stays calm and cool in his escapes. The old saying is "he didn't get big by being stupid" isn't just an old wives tale. Sounds to me like you are doing about all you can...that storybook buck is out there and you will find him, sooner or later. I hope he provides all the bragging rights of your dreams.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> I'm not stuck on a 180. I'd love one just like anyone else, but I'm not set on that. I sot a small 4 a couple years ago. I would like to shoot 150-160 at least


. I can tell you where to find some of those 20-24" wide, 160" class bucks. Sent me a PM with your name and cell number and I'll throw out some ideas.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

It's crazy how someone comes on here and asked for help but won't pursue when it is offered . In order to get gps coordinates of some productive areas, all they have to do is send a simple PM with their name and cell number but that's too much to ask. I see it every year.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

ridgetop said:


> It's crazy how someone comes on here and asked for help but won't pursue when it is offered . In order to get gps coordinates of some productive areas, all they have to do is send a simple PM with their name and cell number but that's too much to ask. I see it every year.
> [/


Social media has made people so antisocial that they are terrified of something as simple as a phone call. From here on out it's all about words on a screen.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I don't even care if someone doesn't want to talk on the phone. Texting is a lot easier to link Onx or Google maps pin drops.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I think you need to stop following so many “pros” on social media, it creates false expectations for people. A lot of them either only hunt private or have the capital to hunt premium locations every year.

not saying you can’t kill big bucks on a regular basis on a gs public land hunts, there are a few guys on here that do but I doubt you’re among those few.

after I shot my first buck that scored 164” when I was younger, I thought that’s the caliber of deer I should always shoot, so I started passing on deer I would typically shoot, waiting for something specific, I ate tag soup for four years after that, passing on bucks I’d typically shoot, no matter how far into the hunt it was, I was prepared to do that but I sure did miss the meat.. so I changed strategy, push hard for the first several days, holding out for something and to prolong my time in the field, then about halfway through the hunt I change my strategy, based off the quality of deer I’m seeing and focus on feeling the freezer.

from what you’re saying, all you are seeing is smaller bucks, or no bucks at all, so I wouldn’t pass on much.

p.s.
Ridgetop is one of those few that pulls big bucks consistently, just go back through his posts on here, you really should have taken him up on his offer but it sounds like that ship has sailed.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

In the OP defense he hasn't been on the site in a week.

Perhaps he'll be back.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Valid point critter


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

BPturkeys said:


> "focused direction"...really?...ok, lets move on. I think you need to re-read Ridgetop's response a couple times more slowly. I have no problem with people passing on nice mature bucks waiting for a once in a lifetime buck, but you need to understand that in any given population of deer there are "normally" only a small number of these OIL guys running around. Nobody can tell you where you might run into him, but common sense tells you that the more deer there are in an area, the more large bucks there will be in and area. The bigger the buck, the smarter he will be, and the less you will see of him. He stays out of sight, he is the first to disappear when he senses you, he hides, he sneaks, and he stays calm and cool in his escapes. The old saying is "he didn't get big by being stupid" isn't just an old wives tale. Sounds to me like you are doing about all you can...that storybook buck is out there and you will find him, sooner or later. I hope he provides all the bragging rights of your dreams.


You replied to a post of mine when I was looking for some direction of where to hunt pine valley. I think you misunderstood my intentions. I am not holding out for a once in a lifetime buck. Would I love to harvest a beast? Of course, who wouldn't? But all I've seen in the past 2 years are does and small 2 points. I pass on the small 2s (just little forkies) to give them a chance to grow. I know someone else will shoot anything that is legal. I just want to get to a point where i'm seeing mature deer. I hunted all over during archery and have been out every day of the muzzleloader and still nothing. I've been all around flat top, pilots peak, communication hill, kane spring, big mountain, up on the mountain south of pine valley town, I even went up to pahcoon flat over the weekend in case there were a few that had migrated early or were just hiding out there. I have hike 5 mile loops, 7 mile loops just to find no sign or more roads and people. I am willing to work hard but feel like I'm doing things wrong. I just started hunting 4-5 years ago and am trying to learn from people with more experience, which is why I'm on here looking for help.

I've seen people say there are deer on top of bumblebee, but haven't figured out the best way to get up there. I have used different apps to look at roads/access and they have mixed information about what roads are open or closed. 

I know bucks get big because they are smart. I know landing a big "bragging rights" buck will have a certain amount of luck involved, but I have to at least be in the right place in order to be there at the right time and so far I feel like I'm struggling to figure out where the right places are.

Thanks


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

ridgetop said:


> . I can tell you where to find some of those 20-24" wide, 160" class bucks. Sent me a PM with your name and cell number and I'll throw out some ideas.


I know its late, PM sent. Explanation given there. Even if you don't respond I want to thank you for your willingness to share when you posted your message.


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Critter said:


> In the OP defense he hasn't been on the site in a week.
> 
> Perhaps he'll be back.


I returned. Things got crazy and the site didn't notify me that there were new responses so I didn't know people had posted. I returned to the thread to reread messages as I've been out "huking" (I think I'm hunting but I'm really just hiking around with a bow/muzzleloader in my hand) as much as I can. I've covered a lot of country. Tried switching things up. Seen a lot more deer than last year even though I was out more days last year, but they've all been does and barely 2 points. I thought I'd go over what people said initially and see if I missed something or I could view responses in a different way and found that there were a few replies I had never seen. Sorry. Didn't mean to ignore or ghost anyone. I'm fairly new to hunting (4-5 years into it) and am always trying to soak up knowledge and information. I try to do my research. I'm open to feedback and advice. Thanks to all those who have offered thoughts. I apologize if it looked like I didn't care.


----------



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> I think you need to stop following so many “pros” on social media, it creates false expectations for people. A lot of them either only hunt private or have the capital to hunt premium locations every year.
> 
> not saying you can’t kill big bucks on a regular basis on a gs public land hunts, there are a few guys on here that do but I doubt you’re among those few.
> 
> ...


I will say it takes a lot of self awareness to manage the false expectations that can be created by all the stuff I see on social media. My buddies and I often have to remind ourselves that they have connections we dont, they get to hunt areas (like private) we don't, and they do this for a living, so they get to be out there WAY more than we do. I still often feel like I'm doing things wrong though when people say "they're (the deer) out there. You just gotta spend more time out there. I've been going out a lot. I often hike a ton to get away from people and despite using apps like OnX and Basemap, I end up hiking over a peak with a road on the other side and people there...or my favorite this year...a 7 mile loop up a mountain to pristine country that had a burn area with fresh green grass growing in it. No tracks. No people tracks. No cow tracks. No deer tracks or sign. All that work to find I was in a place nothing goes to. It hard to justify putting in the time when I feel like anyone who knew where I was would say "why are you over there?"


----------

