# Tags?



## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

This year's draw is a crap shoot, isn't it?

DWR will recommend archery deer tag allocations based on phone samples modified by buck/doe ratio. The samples reflect bowhunting in multiple units, suggesting more bowhunters than there actually are since most of us hunt in more than one unit. So unless buck/doe ratio on a particular unit falls below objective, requiring a reduction in tags, the DWR will actually be recommending more archery tags than last year. Way I see it, if you fill out all 5 choices, you're a slam dunk for a deer tag. (I even applied for the West Desert...no intention of hunting there, but it'll get me on the extended hunt.)

The wrinkle is that given the choice of units, where will you apply? The Wasatch units are far and away the most popular. As a result, they will have the highest tag recommendations. But they'll also likely have the highest demand.

Seems to me that bowhunters who want to hunt should support the UWC buck/doe recommendations.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I really believe alot of people will not be drawing their first, second... third choices unless those later choices are in really obscure areas few people will be putting in for.

Remember, before this fiasco, there really were only two types of tags, archery and not archery (rifle / Muzzleloader were realistically the same, if you drew either rifle or ML, you could swap one weapon type for the other up until the first hunt started). 

From here on out, Rifle is its own pool, Muzzleloader its its own pool and archery is its own pool. Rifle will get the lions share, ML and archery will compete for whats left... I think those two will be much smaller pools with alot of people competing for them.


-DallanC


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

My understanding from those days was they wanted more bowhunters because of the lower kill success numbers. 
That meant more people got to hunt, but the number of bucks killed did not go up much if any.
That's what we were told in the early days of the committies I was on in the "pre-rack days".


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

You have to remember, the Division HAS to cut another 7 or 8 thousand tags this year. Last year they took about 7 or 8 thousand (can't remember which order) all from the rifle pool. I'd be willing to bet that Archery and ML will loose tags this year. I highly doubt they'll take all 15,000 required tag reductions out of the rifle pool. Doesn't matter what recommendations are made on the buck to doe numbers generally. It will effect certain units for sure, but the state gets an allotment of tags to spread out over all the units. This is a fixed number, and no matter what (at least for this year) there will be no increases in that number. I would think that archery tags will be down at least 1000 over last year.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

The division does not have to cut tags this year. In fact, depending on their recommendations and how the WB decides, we could actually see an increase from last year. Again, it's all predicated on the WBs decision on buck to doe ratios.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

so since archery hunters arent as successful as the gun hunters, why do they not give out more archery tags for the people who just want the OPPORTUNITY to hunt? it seems like there would be alot of money to be made on giving more archery tags, giving the gun hunters better drawing odds on the tags they want. win win?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> so since archery hunters arent as successful as the gun hunters, why do they not give out more archery tags for the people who just want the OPPORTUNITY to hunt? it seems like there would be alot of money to be made on giving more archery tags, giving the gun hunters better drawing odds on the tags they want. win win?


'Cause the archery hunters had,and still have, too many 'unfair' advantages (Statewide, longer seasons, Extended areas that include does, deer and elk and antelope seasons that coincide, elk hunt that includes spikes and cows) and there are some out there who want to make things 'fair' (Season length will be next!) and giving them even more tags isn't socially acceptable. (Remember the 'overcrowding' issue a few years back?) Lose, lose, lose!


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

Hey Treehugger...both of us were a little wrong. I thought they had to cut 15000 tags by this year, that was a little high. Here is a quote from the article I had read.

"They're also concerned about how easy it will be for hunters to transition to deer hunting changes that will happen in Utah in 2012.

"We don't know for sure yet," says Anis Aoude, big game coordinator for the Division of Wildlife Resources, "but we may have to recommend cutting general-season buck deer permits by as many as 13,000 by 2012."

Rather than hit hunters with the cuts all at once, Aoude says biologists recommended to the board that they cut some of the permits now. "If they start cutting permits now," Aoude says, "the final cuts won't have to be as severe in 2012."

Last year they went from 95000 general tags to 87000 general tags. I'd be willing to be that number goes down this year as well.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Bee, that was a result of them passing statewide 18-25 buck to doe ratios. In December the board asked the division to come back with recommendations with lower/more comprehensive buck to doe ratios. So, depending on the DWR recommendations and what the board does with those recommendations, the 13k number may be less. It could be significantly less.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I heard talk of a 20% A, 60% R, 20% M split. Are you guys hearing different? The splits, whatever they may be on whatever unit, should reflect the hunters' desires to hunt, not the special interests wishes to protect their own likes.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Packout said:


> I heard talk of a 20% A, 60% R, 20% M split. Are you guys hearing different? The splits, whatever they may be on whatever unit, should reflect the hunters' desires to hunt, not the special interests wishes to protect their own likes.


How do you accomplish that? If you give incentives via longer season dates, more tags, you WILL influence hunters' "desires". Yes?


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

No. My wife, my 12 year old, my Dad, my uncles, my cousins, many friends and neighbors will not pick up a bow because they have-- No desire to bowhunt, No desire to buy a bow, No desire to spend time to become proficient with a bow, No strength/health to draw a bow, No desire to hunt deer in August, etc... Interesting that many of them have a desire to hunt deer. This is just more divisive banter- telling someone that if they want to hunt or if they care about the deer then they should pick up a bow. <-- not directed at anyone inparticular, just the discussions in general.


Now, I gotta go meet a friend to shoot our bows......


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I only put in for a preference point for deer this year. Things always get changed at the last minute and I have no idea what that will be. I put my son and daughter in for all five choices and hope they can draw so we can hunt deer this year. For the first time in my life I won't have a deer permit for myself this year  

I am really at a lose on how things have changed over the last couple years :?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Packout said:


> I heard talk of a 20% A, 60% R, 20% M split. Are you guys hearing different? The splits, whatever they may be on whatever unit, should reflect the hunters' desires to hunt, not the special interests wishes to protect their own likes.


This is how the LE units are run so why should it be any different for general units?


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

MY OPINOIN" If anyone who buys into this crap that the removel x amount of Archery Tags and Picking the Unit you will need to hunt will impact the amount of Mule Deer in Utah? Need I say More. It's just freaking NUTS!!!


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Broadside,
You have drawn every year since the draws started ?
You are either the luckiest person I know or have been dedicated all the time ?
If you are getting a point you aren't a lifetime license holder.
Last year was my first time ever without a deer tag.... Went dedicated 3 years ago for the first time and killed the first 2 years, so I sat out last year. I have a lifetime lisc I bought YEARS ago before the big blitz at the end of that program. Best investment I ever made.


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I am not a lifetime license holder. I don't do the dedicated hunter program and Yes I have had a General Archery Deer Tag every year since 1988 except for the two times I have drawn Book Cliffs Archery deer tag. My dad has had a deer tag every year also since he was 16.

I guess I just expected to hunt deer every year, I mean it has been this way for as long as I can remember. Just saying this is the first year I won't


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Packout said:


> No. My wife, my 12 year old, my Dad, my uncles, my cousins, many friends and neighbors will not pick up a bow because they have-- No desire to bowhunt, No desire to buy a bow, No desire to spend time to become proficient with a bow, No strength/health to draw a bow, No desire to hunt deer in August, etc... Interesting that many of them have a desire to hunt deer. This is just more divisive banter- telling someone that if they want to hunt or if they care about the deer then they should pick up a bow. <-- not directed at anyone inparticular, just the discussions in general.
> 
> Now, I gotta go meet a friend to shoot our bows......


You're missing my point, Mike! I am NOT saying everyone will switch to a specific weapon, I am saying MANY will. If archery season is made more attractive, MANY hunters who were in the muzzy/rifle pools with switch. How can you dispute this? How in the hell can you say this is "just more divisive banter"? :?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Broadside_Shot said:


> I guess I just expected to hunt deer every year, I mean it has been this way for as long as I can remember. Just saying this is the first year I won't


 You're just selfish.......... :O•-: :mrgreen:


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

broadside:
I am impressed...... Ihave a couple of friends who have gone 2 or 3 straight years without a tag before. You should think about spending some time in Vegas. You have the longest straight streak without a lifetime or dedicated hunter tag I have heard of since it went to the draw. I am jealous, I never win any drawings or raffles.
What is your lucky charm so I can go buy me one?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I've had a general deer tag every year since 1971, mostly bow tags. Just speculating, but one reason for that is I haven't put in for a rifle tag for many years. This year will be, at best, another chapter in the same story because if I put in for a rifle tag without a point or two, there's a good likelihood I won't draw. But chances are that I'll draw another archery tag.

Pro's right about archery incentives. The DWR and WB have been pushing incentives wherever possible for years, and with good reason. But this year's incentive is unintended...just the way the numbers will crunch unless the DWR has figured out a way to compensate. Under the regional model, many bowhunters hunted multiple units, inflating the "hunters afield" count on each unit that is part of the formula for determining this year's unit archery tag allotments.

As for tag splits, the WB has demonstrated a reluctance to increase archery tags without first seeing increased demand. That's smart. But if the demand is there, tag ratios will be changed to accommodate the demand. Many archers like to think the WB favors rifle hunters; the truth is that Utah deer hunters prefer the rifle, for now.

One thing's sure - I don't envy the DWR folks who are trying to sort out these unit tag numbers. No way they can get it right the first time. And next year will look very different.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> 'Cause the archery hunters had,and still have, too many 'unfair' advantages (Statewide, longer seasons, Extended areas that include does, deer and elk and antelope seasons that coincide, elk hunt that includes spikes and cows) and there are some out there who want to make things 'fair' (Season length will be next!) and giving them even more tags isn't socially acceptable. (Remember the 'overcrowding' issue a few years back?) Lose, lose, lose!


Archery hunter have lost the state wide hunt this year.

Broadside_Shot,Finnegan you guys better knock on some wood fast before you jeenk your self with drawing a tag every year.


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I don't think it was that lucky. I have chosen to bowhunt for all those years and up until last year it was always a guarentee.

As for the lucky charm, Well lets just say I was born with it :shock:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

dkhntrdstn said:


> elkfromabove said:
> 
> 
> > 'Cause the archery hunters had,and still have, too many 'unfair' advantages (Statewide, longer seasons, Extended areas that include does, deer and elk and antelope seasons that coincide, elk hunt that includes spikes and cows) and there are some out there who want to make things 'fair' (Season length will be next!) and giving them even more tags isn't socially acceptable. (Remember the 'overcrowding' issue a few years back?) Lose, lose, lose!
> ...


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> Broadside_Shot,Finnegan you guys better knock on some wood fast before you jeenk your self with drawing a tag every year.


Too late! :lol:

I'm actively recruiting new bowhunters every chance I get and the inevitable result of that will be an "unsuccessful" email sooner or later. And that's okay.

Still, things have a way of working out. I've always had a deer tag, but it's the only species I've ever drawn aside from a few cow tags. So I've got elk and moose points piled up to the rafters.

Besides, haven't you ever noticed that us good looking guys get all the breaks?


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > Broadside_Shot,Finnegan you guys better knock on some wood fast before you jeenk your self with drawing a tag every year.
> ...


How many moose points do you have build up ? Yea but Gordy is not god looking.Then how does he get all of the breaks?Is it because he hang out with us ?lol


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

Finnegan said:


> Besides, haven't you ever noticed that us good looking guys get all the breaks?


You got that right Finn!!!!


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