# Otters on the Provo



## Crash (Mar 20, 2008)

I read an article in the paper the other day about the DWR wanting to plant otters in the Provo to take out some of the fish since there are too many fish. Now this puzzles me. Why not allow for fisherman to catch and keep more and maybe loosen the restrictions on the size, species, and how many you can keep. I see the otter as ivasive and going to cause more damage than good. What are your guy's thoughts and opinions on this? No need for a yelling match over this.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Many of the anglers on the Provo are C&R anglers.
The Provo need to have a lot of these fish harvested.
If the anglers are not doing it, the DRW will find a different approach, like the Otter.
Some will agree and others, not so much.
Either way, the DWR will do what they think is best for the water.
I for one would like to catch fewer but bigger trout on the Provo.
IMHO, thinning the herd will help to make this happen.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Grandpa D said:


> Many of the anglers on the Provo are C&R anglers.
> The Provo need to have a lot of these fish harvested.
> If the anglers are not doing it, the DRW will find a different approach, like the Otter.
> Some will agree and others, not so much.
> ...


+1

Worth a try.

They have been planted below the Flaming Gorge Dam on the Green. They are a joy to behold and remind me of happy days on remote Canadian rivers. I see no ill effects nor hear any complaints.

Remember that the DWR manages wildlife on the Provo not just for fishermen, but other types of outdoor enthusiasts.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Many of the guides are throwing a big stink about it and how bad they are going to hurt the fish population. Must be the ones who like catching lots of small fish! 8) In all reality, anything that can be done to lower the population is great for the fishery. Bring on the otters!


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## Crash (Mar 20, 2008)

I can understand why they want to bring in the otters. But I can't help but think about the beetle they introduced in southern UT to kill the tamerisk. It worked too good. The entire wetlands down there went up in flames. I know there is not a cure all answere. Is there another option though? If I remeber correctly isn't the middle all C&R. Well maybe lift that restriction for a year or so and see what that does. Just an idea


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

The Middle is divided into two sections with different regulations on each;

From Deer Creek Reservoir upstream to the Legacy Bridge (somewhere in Midway...not the Charleston Bridge immediately upstream from DC), general regulations apply with a limit of 4 trout using any legal angling method (bait friendly). 

From the Legacy Bridge upstream to the Jordanelle Dam, it's artificial flies and lures only with a trout limit of 2 under 15 inches.

I'm all about the RE-introduction of the native river otters. They were there before we started messing with it, so it won't hurt anything to have them back. It will serve as a good means of population control. 

The otters will most likely munch on the smaller fish rather than the big boys. They would prefer to catch fish that fit in their bellies, I would think. This is a good thing.

Plus, they're a blast to watch, if you're so lucky to spot one.


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## Crash (Mar 20, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification LOAH. If I have any doubts of what the regs. are on keeping fish, I just play it safe and release them. I am sure this project will work out for the best in the end. I just was unsure of the reasoning and I have seemed to found the answeres that make me feel better with this situation. Thanks guys.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Many of the guides are throwing a big stink about it and how bad they are going to hurt the fish population. Must be the ones who like catching lots of small fish! 8) In all reality, anything that can be done to lower the population is great for the fishery. Bring on the otters!


I heard you were complaining about it. -oOo- :wink: j/k. In all reality I think they'll be great for the MP.


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## Flyfish4thrills (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember seeing otters when fishing on the lower provo near the tunnels (tunnels weren't there then). Aren't they still on the Provo, or on only certain sections? I don't see a problem, unless they get to be too good of a predator and the DWR has to go on a otter hunt. They may be impossible to remove if they become a problem.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Flyfish4thrills said:


> I remember seeing otters when fishing on the lower provo near the tunnels (tunnels weren't there then). Aren't they still on the Provo, or on only certain sections? I don't see a problem, unless they get to be too good of a predator and the DWR has to go on a otter hunt. They may be impossible to remove if they become a problem.


If they cross breed the Otter with a Beaver, it would be sterile. 
Then they could control their numbers.
Hey, it could happen! :rotfl:


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

that sounds interesting... an animal that chews fish in half and dams up streams with all the chewed up fish! Knowing this state's love affair (DWR) with hybrids and having 100% control over any species, I would not be surprised...


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## East_Fork (Apr 22, 2009)

I do not fish the provo, and have no idea on what "will" happen, but I think this is the same idea they had with the wolf in yellowstone, right? Once again, I'm just introducing an idea, so don't jump all over me.

dallan


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

East_Fork said:


> dallan


Uhhh we have 2 Dallan's here at UWN? :shock:

-DallanC


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## East_Fork (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, yes my name is dallan, and my last starts with a c, so technically we have two dallanc's

dallan


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

I DO shun tiger trout and splake. The idea behind Tiger Muskies and Wipers makes perfectly good sense to me.... Predators that provide population control with controlable populations themselves. A good idea. But I think the excessive use of hybrid trout is nothing more than a bull**** novelty idea that allows the DWR to play god. I have always been a fan of wild trout populations. 

The original excuse for the DWR's stocking of Tiger Trout was rough fish control and lack of spawning. Bull****. The DWR has been working for years to protect so many of the native Bonnevile and Colorado Cutthroat fisheries. And now, the state is planting all of these cutthroat waters with tigers. Just as one particular fishery that I fish often started to establish themselves (Colorado River Cutts)in good numbers, here come the tigers! Now Colorado cutts are the exception, and Tigers are the rule. 

You look at all the other rocky mtn states and so much focus is put into wild trout population. Montana manages all of their trout streams as wild trout fisheries. Yet, on their own, the comeback of the rainbow trout in the Madison is one of the biggest comeback stories in recent memory since being devastated by whirling disease in the 80's. If I had one fish to pursue, it would be wild rainbows. Utah has nearly zero wild rainbow fisheries. One that we do have is the lower Provo. Here, rainbows average 16" - 19". Grow ungodly fat, and fight like hell. Straightened hooks, 4X and 3X snapped as fast as I can knot it on, backing runs; all everyday occurences for me down there. I have caught a lot of Tigers and Tigers are not in the same class for fight as those fish. Every place in the west where I encounter big, wild rainbows, the 'bows pull harder than any of the Tigers hands down. Part of my reasoning is the fact that I make a living off of these rivers. People don't come from out of state and book guide trips to catch tigers. They want browns and rainbows. And the lower is one of the best rainbow fisheries anywhere in the country. The quality of bows is right there among the Henrys fork, Madison, Missouri, Platte, silver Creek, Deschutes, etc.. Some of the most famous and prolific fisheries in the country. 

There are many people out there who will argue "what about the middle?" "thats a prime example of browns overpopulating!, Sterile fish would fix that altogether!" There never was a problem with the middle Provo until too many people had their hands in the cookie jar. After the completion of Jordanelle, the middle Provo became possibly THE BEST BROWN TROUT RIVER IN THE COUNTRY! Hatches were epic and growth rates were through the charts. Fish in the 22" to 24" range were pretty common, and some reaches of river the average fish was a FAT 17" -19" brown or rainbow. What happened? 2000 was the year that the river took a nose dive. The Provo river restoration project started in 1999 with the focus on taking all the dikes and rip rap out of the river and putting all the natural bends back into it. The state also set a mandatory minimum flow out of Jordanelle Res. at 125 cfs. So now you have a steady flow of water with all sorts of hiding places for the juvenile trout. Also, with the construction, much of the river was silted out. Therefore the larger macroinvertebrae insects such as Green Drakes, Golden Stones, Yellow Sallies, and various caddis took a huge population dive because of the siltation. In the end you have a river that produces thousand upon thousand of trout with no foodbase to feed those fish. Also, historically, very low late summer and winter flows pushed juvenile trout into the same holding lies as the larger fish. Predation would help keep the population in check. With the minimum 125 cfs (and many times the river is much higher than that), the smaller fish escape the larger fish and the population continues to grow. I believe that this, along with much colder water throughout the summer (currently releasing 48 degrees right now, historically, temperatures would be in the mid 60's this time of year) is the reason that we are still stuck in this pickle of small fish river wide. There are definitely some very large fish in the river, but there is just a massive population of smaller fish in the 9" to 13" size class, particularly from River Road downstream. Hopefully the otters can help fix this situation that the state has been able to do nothing but screw up.


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

Sparky and I have been visting with a beaver at Pineiewe recently. I know it isn't an otter, but this guy seems kind of friendly/aggressive with us, swimming and diving pretty dang close. Any comments? So far it's been fun watching the beav. and spark. playing tag for a good long time. Any comments?


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## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

From the article in the Trib DWR has been monitoring the MP for a few years now there netting surveys have been showing more and more stunted fish due to over population. Brett Prettyman stated that the DWR has been trying to get more anglers to harvest there catch's but the majority of people C&R the MP.

Because of the stunted fish DWR has introduced the river otters. He goes on to mention that this will great improve the size and quality of the fish but does mention that river otters a very resourcefull animals and could end up going up to the Untiahs or Down to Utah Lake.


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