# Are these Turkeys different species



## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I was wondering if these birds are considered different species or if Merriams vary this much in color.

The top photo is my dad's and uncle's turkeys and they were shot at the same time and in the same flock.

My Son's was really white in color, mine was more tan. they were killed about a mile apart. Just different years.

Just wondering if they are all merriams or if some are Rio's


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2011)

to me, the top bird looks like an eastern...? but not if it was shot in utah. ive shot really white colored rios and really dark rios. merriams are the same way, none of them have the exact coloring. they could also be a mix between the 2? i dunno. im no turkey expert, thats just what i thought. good lookin birds either way! nice work!


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## Moose Hollow (Apr 26, 2008)

kill_'em_all said:


> to me, the top bird looks like an eastern...? but not if it was shot in utah. ive shot really white colored rios and really dark rios. merriams are the same way, none of them have the exact coloring. they could also be a mix between the 2? i dunno. im no turkey expert, thats just what i thought. good lookin birds either way! nice work!


I'm with you on the top looks like and eastern somebody told me that they had seen several that looked like Eastern down by Boulder Mt never seen them for myself.

#2 Maybe a Meriam.
#3 Rio.
#4 Merriam.

Thats what they look like to me but like you i'm no expert.

I'll bet Darren would know?


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

They are for sure NOT all Merriams. Maybe the one your son shot and maybe the one your uncle shot, but my guess is that they are all Rio's. There are only a few pockets of pure Merriams in Utah and it is highly unlikely that you will find a pure Merriams running around with a flock of Rio's. They're ALL great birds and you should be proud and honored to be so lucky.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Look at the white/black bars on the wings. Merriam's typically have larger white stripes than black. Rio's are opposite with larger black stripes than white. Usually our Utah birds are hybrids, and the wings stripes are pretty equal.


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I think your right. I think they are all Rios. I had it mixed up with the Rios vs Merriams. I looked at a map on the NWTF web site and it shows that the majority of turkeys in Utah are Rios with a couple select areas in southern and south eastern Utah that hold Merriams. There are some Hybrid areas down south also. We were really far from any of those areas. I was just curious because when I draw again I wanted to try for the opposite species. I think the one I shot with my bow is a true example of a pure Rio. So next time I will try for a Merriams. Thanks for the help


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Technically there are only two species of "turkey": *The Wild Turkey *and the *Ocellated Turkey*. The Merriam's, Rio's, etc are all subspecies or races of the North American Wild Turkey

Some great information about both species and their subspecies (races): NWTF Turkey Info

Great work regardless, nice birds and a wonderful time spent outdoors.

A few years ago I helped my father get a turkey on the Boulder's. Supposed to be Merriam's down there. Well his bird was an obvious Rio/Merriam hybrid...so hybridization of subspecies is even happening down there. This was at the northern end of the Boulders...so there are lots of areas that the Rio blood could have come from.

Note the fairly "white" outer band (tell-tail of a Merriam's)...but the more "buffy" upper-tail coverts (generic of a Rio). And shot at over 8000 feet!









**** hard to find a nice pure Merriam's these days. I shot this bird in MT last year. Lots of hybridization going on there too&#8230;the bird was obviously a Merriam's&#8230;but there were "Rio" colored birds in the same flock. Luck of the draw (Plus he came in a strutting and a putting&#8230;who could resist?)









To muddy the waters further, I helped my father get this Jake in an area only known to harbor Rios. I also saw one hen in the area with similar coloring. Did he "migrate" up from the south? Did a biologist have a transplanting mix-up? Who knows&#8230;it was cool watching my pop lay him out though&#8230;


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