# My lab just runs off every time he gets loose????



## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

How do you fix this problem. Whether I am in my front yard, or camping or even in the field, he just runs and doesn't' come back until he wants to. He listens to me inside the house but once he gets loose, doesn't care and wont listen. My wife can't stand him, and the only reason we still have him is because it would crush my daughter, I know he can be a good dog, but I need to get him there in a hurry. He is almost a year old.


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

Sorry about multiple posts, my computer froze and I didn't think my first one went through


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## Firstarrow (Sep 28, 2007)

There is a whole lot more wisdom on here than me, but I will chime in, then let them correct me.

IMO Check cord - everytime you let him outside. If you are not going to hold him put him on a stake out or chain. Remember you are the one in control. 

Last year I had the same problem with my britt. He is now pretty good.

When he is on the hunt, or after some tail he gets hard of hearing from time to time. A quick correction is all he needs then he is good as gold again. It was good to not be the one out pheasant hunting yelling at the top of my voice (insert dogs name) Come d***it, COME.....

Best of luck to you.


Best to you


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

First Arrow gave you some good advise. I would have him on a check cord every time he goes outside for a while. Have you worked on coming when called just inside or outside as well? Put him on a check cord and practice coming when called outside in different areas and with distractions. Later a ecollar can be used but first he needs to know what the here command means and that he needs to obey it every time. 

Mark


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Simple, Your dog isn't paying attention.

Call me and I'll tell you how to fix it in one afternoon. 

Darin 801-682-8028


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

Here is something that I have found makes my dog listen to me. When she is acting up, I put her on her back and hold her there by applying a little pressure to the stomach/chest. I get right in her face and tell her NO! She will fight it for a little while but then realizes I am the dominant one. She is really good after this.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

That's the alpha wolf male rollover, or whatever. You can read about it in the Monks of New Skeet book How to be your dog's best friend. Though not targeting for hunting dogs, it has some good info in there for any dog owner.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Gumbo said:


> That's the alpha wolf male rollover, or whatever. You can read about it in the Monks of New Skeet book How to be your dog's best friend. Though not targeting for hunting dogs, it has some good info in there for any dog owner.


Yes! That works if they are being dominant or agressive, but not if they're leaving the yard. If any of my dogs shows me or any member of my family that they think they're in charge, I pounce on them, grab them by the throat and ears, and growl at them until they whizz all over the place. Then I let them up and pet them in a kind and friendly manor and they are back to being the nice *subordinate* dog they are supposed to be.


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks Tex I will give you a call


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## Nasher (Oct 9, 2007)

Buy a training book and follow it.. Spend 10-15 min a night working on obedience.. The goin western method is only good for a little bit and is not the solution to a dog that doesnt give a crap about what you think and what you want him to do.. Spend the time and teach this dog the right way through obedience drills and get the concept of obedience ingrained into the dogs head. Make it a way of life and not the day or two after an a$$ whoopin. If you train the right way there is no need for the alpha male role over or whaterver you want to call it.. :roll: 

That comes with working one on one with the dog and following a training program.. Obedience is the same rather it be a house pet, meat dog, hunt test dog or field trial dog..


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Ya know, what you just said makes sense, and it doesn't.

Having an obedient dog is one thing, and being obedient will defiantly curb some of those problems. 

I've owned a few dogs and some have subordinate soft personalities and others have had bold, alpha, agressive personalities. One male I owned was the most obiediant dog in the world. I could get that dog to deal cards if I asked him. But he was a ****strong, dominant, alpha male with an attitude to match his personality. He NEEDED the western way, on a regular basis. He was and probably will be the best hunting dog and friend I will ever have. He was loyal and true without condition, but don't come up and think yer just gonna sniff his butt without asking.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, No two dogs are alike. You have to feel them out one by one and train according to their individual needs. Dogs don't respond the right way to the PetsMart brand of "namby pamby" training with "goodies" and praise. They will only get spoiled, fat, and lazy. Being firm, fair, patient, consistent, and yes, sometimes "western" is the way dogs are trained. Getting your point accros to the animal so it stays out of trouble and alive isn't as cut and dry as "go buy a book and train your dog" You need to have dog sense also. If you can't READ your dog, you'll never get anywhere with him.


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

Nasher said:


> Buy a training book and follow it.. Spend 10-15 min a night working on obedience.. The goin western method is only good for a little bit and is not the solution to a dog that doesnt give a crap about what you think and what you want him to do.. Spend the time and teach this dog the right way through obedience drills and get the concept of obedience ingrained into the dogs head. Make it a way of life and not the day or two after an **** whoopin. If you train the right way there is no need for the alpha male role over or whaterver you want to call it.. :roll:
> 
> That comes with working one on one with the dog and following a training program.. Obedience is the same rather it be a house pet, meat dog, hunt test dog or field trial dog..


Don't even begin to call something like the roll over "getting western". It does not involve striking or hurting the dog in one bit. To compare that to an ass whoopin is asinine at best. If you can't get your concepts of what is "western" and what is not in order, don't expect to be taken seriously.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

Nasher said:


> The goin western method is only good for a little bit and is not the solution to a dog that doesnt give a crap about what you think and what you want him to do.





Nasher said:


> If you train the right way there is no need for the alpha male role over or whaterver you want to call it.. :roll:


You're talking about two completely separate things here. Maybe I'm missing your point, but if you think they're one and the same then you need to study up on techniques taught by the Monks of New Skeet. This technique resolves the dominance issue, but not obedience issues.

As far as the term _getting western_, the problem I have with it is that is has different meanings to different people. To some it means physically abusing your dog; to other it means raising your voice. It has no established definition and should therefore be avoided. In fact, I'm willing to bet most people who argue over _getting western_ probably agree with how to enforce an established standard.

I admit to going mid-western a time or two. But usually I go eastern or yankee.


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## Nasher (Oct 9, 2007)

That’s a good post Tex and I agree with all of it. Anyone that has trained a dog, at least to a respectable level has encountered problems or issues very similar to, “my dog runs away at every chance it gets” Been there done that and over came it.. 

Training or getting a dog to listen involves time, patience, consistency and a goal. Their are many ways to train and get a point across to a dog, but the issue in this post was “My dog runs away from me”. I can’t figure out a scenario where rolling a dog on its back would be beneficial to it in this situation. The dog isn’t being aggressive or dominant, it just plain and simply runs away.. The dog does not know what here means or if it does, it doesn’t think it has to obey it all the time. The only way to correct that is working with the dog and spending enough time with it, one on one and enforcing the command until the dog believes it has to obey the command each and every time.

The way I see it, if the dog runs and you run him down to get after him (insert punishment technique here) then you have just taught the dog to run away even more or not get caught or he gets punished.. If you call the dog to you and the dog finally returns to you after the 50th come/here and you punish the dog for taking so long to obey.. Well, dogs don’t think like that. In the dogs mind, you have just punished the dog for obeying the here command even though it took you 50 yells and half a block of running around.. My point is you can’t physically get the dogs attention in that manor if the dog (in his mind) is doing what it should be doing. 
I agree that there are times when a little hands on training is a way to get there attention, once you have their attention, that is the time to be teaching what you want the dog to do..
I just don’t see it in this scenario, that’s all

If this dog were mine, I would always have a check cord on it, have him drag it around all the time its loose and I would spend 15-20 min, one or even two sessions a day working on sit. Once sit is ingrained I would move onto here, its easier to get a dog to come if you can get the dog stopped first.
Buy a training book is my way of saying GET ON A PROGRAM. A ton of these issues can be avoided if some sort of a training program were followed. Books and training programs do have holes and gaps and some are filled with what ifs, but some direction is better than no direction. Even for a house pet if that’s what you have..

A dog running away is not safe for the animal, how many post did we read alone this year about dogs getting hit by cars or some other injuring factor that could have been avoided if the dog would have known a few simple commands and obeyed them? Accidents happen and I have lost a great dog in the past to carelessness.. A few simple things would have prevented his accident and I hate to see the same thing for others..


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Like I said in my first post, this is simply a dog that doesn't pay attention to his owner.

I could have that dog fixed in ten minutes with a ten foot lead and a choke chain. I won't have said a word, and he would be right at my side, paying attention, and worshiping my every move. 

Once you have the dogs undivided attention, pour the obiediance to him now and make him a safe, pleasant dog.


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

Guys, I know how to train a dog, but this dog for some reason won't listen to me when he is off his chain, or not inside the house. He is usually a in house dog. He sits, comes does anything I ask when he is contained, but he is a different dog when let go and can run free. Tex, I will call you and listen to what you have to say, I have been pretty busy, but if you can fix this in 10 min. then that is great, I will listen and see if it works. But, don't think that I don't spend time with my dog, or that he is not trained.


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## FetchExpress (Oct 29, 2007)

This is just my 2 cents.

Dogs need love and they need discipline. Cant have to much of either one or the balance gets off. Balance is always key. Dogs need to blow off the world a bit but they also need to listen...especially when it involves safety.

If he listens when he is contained, here it what I would do: 
1. Work on sit, SIT, and more sit. Do not accept slow casual sits but demand crisp attention sits. Look you in the eye kind.

A. put a leash on (pinch or choke chain work best) and when he gets to the point that you can tell him sit and he is fighting to keep his butt on the ground while you are pulling on the leash to pull him off of the sit...then he truley understands what sit means. After he is good at this this is when I add in an e-collar as well but this works with the tennis shoe method as well. Sit has got to mean something to the dog there has to be a correction when he doesnt do it right and praise when he does. 

Now when he goes to run away instead of yelling no, or here, or come. The word you speak is SIT. Sit now means look at me and pay attention because I am about to redirect you to do something else. When he is focused call him to you...if he goes to bolt away again say sit again and then you walk towards him and simplify it for him.

This works for just about anything. The more you use it the more the dog understands "oh you want to teach me or ask me to do something else and i need to listen".

Just my 2 cents.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

FetchExpress said:


> This is just my 2 cents.
> 
> Dogs need love and they need discipline. Cant have to much of either one or the balance gets off. Balance is always key. Dogs need to blow off the world a bit but they also need to listen...especially when it involves safety.
> 
> ...


Good post.

When I've worked with retreiving and flushing breeds this is called "HUP" training.

You start out witrh the command sit *when the dog is at your side*. After he grasps the concept of sit and is minding other commands such as "heel" and "down" on the lead, he is ready to start off lead work. The word "HUP" is then used instead of sit to teach a more crisp, alert, and advanced form of discipline. After the dog is responding to the HUP command you take the work off the lead with an E-collar. Soon the dog is "HUPing" on command no matter where he is.

*Important Note:*
Notice I said AFTER the command "heel". Heel is the base command for ANY dog. A dog that is at heel is in control, safe, and more importantly, *paying attention!* I can have any dog heeling in ten minutes using the techniques found in "The Keohler Meathod" of dog training. Great book, I don't even know if it is still in print.

Anyway, my point is, get a dogs undivided attention, and you can teach him anything. No disrespect to you Bowhunter3, but if your dog does'nt listen to you off lead, or outside the house, he aint payin attention to ya! Get his attention!


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

None taken bud. That is why I posted I can use what ever help I can get and am willing to try what has been suggested. As soon as I get a free time during these holidays I will give you a call. Thanks


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