# 44 Mag primers



## fishawk (Aug 23, 2009)

I've been using CCI large pistol primers and Blue Dot powder to reload for my 44 mag. Thinking of trying magnum primers. Any thoughts? Pros v.s Cons? Loading hornady 240 gr XTP bullets.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

They will work perfectly fine. Depending on your load you might consider backing the powder down a little but I don't see any problems.

I actually only use the CCI 350 magnum primers on all my loads, light or heavy.


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## fishawk (Aug 23, 2009)

That's what I wanted to hear. Thanks.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

ALLIANT - the maker of Blue Dot powder, in the past, recommend just the use of regular LP primers as they are all that is necessary to ignite Blue Dot.
They use the CCI 300 in their data. I don't think you would see a benefit using Magnum primers and loads would have to be adjusted down accordingly. Too violent ignition can create issues.

While it doesn't apply to you Alliant has some major Blue Dot warnings:


> Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
> Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).


Alliant also has gone on record warning against the use of magnum primers with 2400 powder.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Winchester large pistol primers say on the box that they are for standard large pistol AND magnum large pistol loads. I just started reloading for 44 mag and have used these primers for both unique powder (standard) and H110 (magnum). The winchester primers did well in both loads for me. It's nice to only have to buy one size lp primer.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

I posted this on another forum I am involved with - but thought that some of you might be interested in the information it contains on the subject of Which Primer? So it is re-posted here:

*HANDGUN PRIMER THOUGHTS & RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE PROS*

One of the more difficult choices we make is deciding which primer to use. Are they all the same? When should I use magnum primers? Wouldn't magnum primers be better for everything? If you load for a Magnum-named cartridge (_i.e._ .357, .44 etc) should you always use a magnum primer? Do certain powders need certain primers? While not a definitive chart, the opinions presented below will hopefully answer a few of those questions for you and make your choices easier.

It has been brought out by Dave Scovill, editor of _Handloader_ magazine, and one of its earlier contributors, the late Bob Hagel, that certain primers work well better with certain powders. Hagel did a large body of research on this subject in 1982, and Scovill has done some follow-up checking and research. In addition, Brian Pearce has done a lot of work with handguns and has some opinions that collaborate what the other two have found in their research.
Hagel's 1982 article is available online at this link: "Primers for Magnum Handguns". Info by Scovill and Pearce is found in the October and December 2011 issues of _Handloader_ magazine.

Some trends were noticed:
*Large Pistol Primers*:
Federal 150 were as good as any, and better in some instances. Scovill reports that for all practical purposes, they are the best choice for general applications in .44- and .45-caliber non-magnum loads. Hagel observes: "...[standard] primers made by Federal... in both Large and Small Pistol sizes for many years are not surpassed in any form of performance with any bullet weight with most powders in the .41 and .44 Magnum cases, by the... 155 magnum primer or in .357 Magnum by the 200 magnum primer pistol primer."

Winchester WLP is fine with faster-burning powders.

CCI 350 - From Scovill's experiments he concluded the CCI 350 Magnum primer has no value over its non-magnum 300 counterpart, with the exception of use with IMR-4227 in loads that do not exceed 20,000 psi in the .45 Colt.

Remington 2 ½ are excellent with all the cartridges and bullets weights tested (.41 & .44 Mag).

*Small Pistol Primers*:
CCI 500 is more than adequate for faster powders at traditional .38 Special pressures. The CCI 500 primer and Titegroup are an outstanding combination in the .38 Special/158-gr.

CCI 550 Magnum primers were developed in response to the availability of Winchester Ball powders 231 and especially 296.

Federal 200 - Hagel: "After working with this primer and 2400 quite extensively, I concluded that it should not be used with that powder in the .357 Magnum. 
Pearce: "...the .327 Federal Magnum is loaded to around 45,000 psi, some 10,000 psi greater than the .357 Magnum... In this application, at least with full-power loads, a primer designed to withstand that much pressure without deformation should be selected. A good example is the Federal 200, the same primer that the factory uses."

Remington 1 ½ are excellent with all the cartridges and bullets weights tested (.357 Mag).

The use of magnum primers _in some instances_ appears to generate higher pressures without the attendant - expected - increase in velocity. 
Magnum pistol primers except CCI's show no superiority over those assumed to be of standard power when used to ignite slow-burning powders of any type, including spherical, and often give less velocity and uniformity.

According to Pearce: "In magnum revolver cartridges, such as the .357, .41 and .44, the powder should be determined before selecting a primer. This is important, as many magnum revolver cartridge powders perform better when ignited with a Standard primer rather than a Magnum primer. This has been proven in several ballistic labs, not to mention my own testing and experience. In one lab test, .44 Magnum loads containing 2400 increased 11,000 psi when capped with a CCI 350 magnum primer versus the same charge capped with a CCI 300 standard primer. As a result, the powder charge must be reduced to stay within SAAMI pressure guidelines, which likewise reduces velocity." 
Sometimes this slips by the reloading manual people. A good example is the 1994 #12 Speer manual where CCI magnum primers were used in 2400 data. When Pearce told Speer's Allan Jones about this, at first he was skeptical. Then he re-shot the 2400 data using standard primers and confirmed Pearce's claim was correct. The data was corrected in the #13 manual with the significantly better performance of the standard primer published.

Oddly enough there is an anomaly with Accurate #9 (_that was used as an OEM .357 and .44 Mag powder by a major ammunition company dating back to the 1970s with standard primers_) according to Pearce. When Western Powders bought Accurate Arms, they posted data shot with a magnum primer - which contradicted what Accurate had always said. Western's ballistician, Keith Anderson recognizes that AA #9 is best served with standard primers, resulting in lower extreme spreads, better accuracy and greater velocity. However the reason Western began using magnum primers was the powder charges were greater with standard primers, and they felt that the average guy would purchase magnum primers for his magnum revolver, then use published data that was developed with standard primers. The result would be high-pressure loads. So, figuring on the worst-case scenario, the company chose to use magnum primers with its data. That doesn't mean YOU should, because now you know better! Your powder charge can be a bit higher as well.

Standard primers are needed for best performance when using the following magnum revolver powders: 
Alliant 2400
Accurate #9
Alliant Power Pro 300-MP
Vihtavuori N110
This is in accordance with recommendations from both Alliant and Accurate/Western Powder.

Magnum primers are strongly suggested to obtain reliable ignition under all conditions and with a wide range of bullet weights when using the following magnum revolver powders:
Hodgdon H-110
Winchester 296
Hodgdon Lil'Gun

With these powders standard weight bullets will generally ignite reliably with standard primers in warm temperatures. However, when the mercury plummets, ignition issues can be a real and potentially dangerous problem. In subzero temperatures, Brian Pearce has seen bullets from full-power .44 Magnum loads exit the barrel at about the same speed as he can throw a rock! When matched with light-for-caliber bullets, magnum primers become even more important to obtain reliable and consistent powder ignition. Heavy-for-caliber bullets tend to help this powder burn more uniformly, and standard primers can often give excellent results, but cold weather ignition issues can still arise. So magnum primers are still suggested.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Frisco Pete said:


> ALLIANT - the maker of Blue Dot powder, in the past, recommend just the use of regular LP primers as they are all that is necessary to ignite Blue Dot.
> They use the CCI 300 in their data. I don't think you would see a benefit using Magnum primers and loads would have to be adjusted down accordingly. Too violent ignition can create issues.
> 
> While it doesn't apply to you Alliant has some major Blue Dot warnings:
> ...


Well that's interesting. Looking at the hundreds of different .41 and .44 magnum recipes on LoadData.com it appears Alliant changed their tune on Blue Dot about 2010. Before then Alliant, and everyone else, had Blue Dot in .41 and .44 magnum recipes.

I use Blue Dot for my .41 mag and .44 mag jacketed hunting loads. LP CCI 300 primers on the .41 and CCI 350s on the .44 mag. I can't remember why I use magnum primers on the .44. The .41 load is really accurate and the .44 is fine. My notes say these recipes are from the 1980 Hornady Reloading Guide. 

Load Data.com = 264,019 reloading recipes

.


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## fishawk (Aug 23, 2009)

Great info! Thanks.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Look what I found:

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/18-firearms-reloading/6790-alliant-blue-dot-safety-warning.html

Frisco Pete gave us the head's up on the Alliant Blue Dot warning back in 2008. Man, wish my short term memory was better.

This time I'm printing this and putting it in my reloading binder.

.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is a good thing that all I use in my pistol loads from .38 up to my .45 LC is Unique unless I want some arm breakers then I use some H110.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> Load Data.com = 264,019 _*questionable and somewhat out of date *_reloading recipes.


Fixed it for you.

-DallanC


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Fixed it for you.
> 
> -DallanC


You didn't fix it for me, you fixed it for yourself.

That doesn't make any sense. Almost all of the reloading recipes in the books are on the Load Data.com website.

.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Critter said:


> It is a good thing that all I use in my pistol loads from .38 up to my .45 LC is Unique unless I want some arm breakers then I use some H110.


I don't know where you are going with this in relation to this thread.

While Unique is a good and versatile powder, there are lots of good powders for handgun applications that can do as good or better than Unique in a specific application. The use of Blue Dot or 2400 and others mentioned is no exception - you just need to understand their pros and cons and pick the right primer and bullet weight for their optimum application.

In times like these it can be good to have alternative powders to use - Power Pistol, Universal, AA #9, Tite Group and other newer powders can be used to create excellent loads.


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