# Bullet Suggestions; Nosler vs Barnes



## weatherby_man (Feb 5, 2008)

I shoot a 7mm Weatherby Mag, Mark V. I am trying to decide what bullets to reload. I have shot Hornady in the past (139 grain), and the latest were a Nosler Ballistic tip (150 grain). I have been researching and have come down to two different bullets... 

the Nosler Accubond and the Barnes Tipped Triple Shock (the Barnes MRX I believe are way too much $$$).

I am wondering who has shot these bullets and what their thoughts are on these bullets. How is the accuracy, velocities, powders, and results (what they have actually done to animals you have shot)? I would appreciate any and all information and experience you have with these bullets.

I would prefer to load a 150 grain bullet as it is more of an all around big game bullet (deer, elk, moose, etc). Do you think that going to the 140 grain (Accubond and TTSX both only come in 140 grain or 160 grain) will be much of a difference? I like shooting a high velocity bullet and I like to shoot long range and be able to reach out there (600 - 800 yards) when I need to. So I figure the 160 grains are a little big for that.

So... what do you all think???


----------



## tapehoser (Sep 10, 2007)

Truth be told, I prefer heavy-for-caliber bullets and would shoot the 160 grain bullet out of that 7mm. They seem to be more stable and smaller groups can be obtained. As for bullet choice, I have had a very difficult time getting any type of Barnes bullet to shoot straight. I have to tweak my reloads and spend LOTS more money to get a good load out of a Barnes bullet than with the Noslers. It CAN be done, don't get me wrong, but it may take more time and money to find that perfect load.

You cannot go wrong with the Nosler. I have NO problem getting 1 inch groups within the first 3 powder/bullet/primer combinations, regardless of the Nosler bullet type.


----------



## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

If you are even considering elk I would go with the 160 grain. It may seem like they won't shoot as well at long range, but they will be pretty close to the 140 in trajectory and have a good bit more energy left. Personally I wouldn't shoot at an elk past about 300 yards with that gun, but a lot of folks would disagree. If you are an excellent marksman and can put your bullet _exactly_ where you want it past that range, feel free. If you're only going for deer then I'd load the 140s.

Between the 2 bullets you mentioned I would use the Accubonds. The Barnes may not expand as reliably at long range, and its more expensive. Either one would be good for accuracy and for shooting game at normal ranges. You may also look at the Hornady Interbond 154 grain.


----------



## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't shoot either of those particular bullets, but I know the 162 Grn Hornady Soft Point Boat Tails hit very hard. Nothing has walked away. :mrgreen:


----------



## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

All-copper Barnes TSX bullets are a different animal that normal jacketed bullets and you can get away with much lighter weight in a given caliber and still be effective. The TSX is supposed to be less fussy than previous Barnes X bullets for the reloader.
Having said that, honestly either is a great bullet and won't let you down. The Barnes likely has a bit more penetration. 
You need to be somewhat careful loading the TSX, loading data for this type bullet doesn't "track" quite the same as with conventional bullets.
I know a lot of people who swear by the 150-gr 7mm bullets, even on elk. I have a friend who has killed half-dozen with a 150/7mm Partition in his 7mm STW, some at rather long range.


----------



## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

I've shot Barnes bullets for years now in my 7mm rem mag, and I have found nothing that'll give a better one shot kill. I started with X-Bullets, and now I use 150gr TSX for both deer and elk. 2 years ago I shot a elk at 336 yards, the bullet went through both shoulders, and out the other side. 

Another plus for the Barnes TSX is bullet weight retention. I've only had 2 bullets that haven't exited the animal (deer and elk), and both of those bullets have retained 90 + % of their weight.

If accuracy is a problem, it's a gun problem, not a bullet problem. I consistantly shoot sub MOA 5 shot groups with Barnes TSX bullets.

Happy Shooting,
Afishnado

P.S.
I get the best results with Reloader 22


----------



## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

I am also a HUGE fan and believer in the Barnes Triple Shock X bullets. My dad started reloading and shooting the original X bullet with fairly good success and then started using the TSX bullet and totally loves it. We have shot these in our rifels for the least few years or so with great results. 

I started out using their muzzleloader full copper expander bullets and killed 5 deer with one shot kills. 4 of those 5 were grave yard dead without taking a step. The 5th took about 3 steps and was done. 

I have since killed 2 deer and one cow elk with my 300 win mag. The elk and one deer were fast one shot kills. The other I made a bad shot on my first shot and it took another but, went down fast with that. All bullets had very awesome penetration and I could not have asked for more whatsoever!! Very impressed!! In my 300 I shoot the 180 grain bullet with about 69 grains of 4350 powder i believe. (my dad does the reloading but, i am starting to do it as he is getting older and not as able to load as much). 

For you wanting to shoot at longer ranges, I think I would possibly look at the Barnes TIPPED Triple shock X bullets. They have the little blue tip and are still full copper for great weight retention. They have a little better trajectory and do a little better at longer ranges. The tip helps them to expand quickly on impact. I am thinking hard about switching to this. 

The other thing I totally love about Barnes is when you call to ask any questions, they have an extremely knowledgable staff that will take the time to answer any question you have and educate you on the results they have first hand from their own shooting/hunting. 

I have a question for you though. I have always heard that people have a very hard time matching Weatherby's factory loads and that for some reason Weatherby factory loads are much more accurate than hand loads. Is this true? If so, why is this? 

Good luck!


----------



## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

A good compromise is the 154 gr Speer Grand Slam. I've used them in several different 7mm cartridges, have had good results. Of course, it's probably due to the rifle liking that projectile better than others.

They have a rather high B.C. relative to their fairly large frontal area. They seem to 'hit' like a 175 gr, with the ballistics of a 150.
Give 'em a try. It's my top choice for big muleys and elk at moderate to long ranges.


----------



## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

I have seen Nosler partitions loose lead out of both ends and retain only 30% of weight. This was in a big Buffalo and it was recoverd after 4 more shots. That first bullet broke the shoulder but did not make it to the lungs makeing for a very long day of tracking. You will never loose more than 30% of the weight on a TSX and I mean NEVER. Most of the time they will be near 100% weight retention and full penetration and you can use a lighter bullet giving you more velocity and thus, flatter trajectory. The TSX and the TTSX are much more user freandly then the old X bullet and alot more accurate. If you can't get it to shoot well, give there 800# a call and they will help you get it shooting.


----------



## weatherby_man (Feb 5, 2008)

Thank you all for the input! I would really like to try the Barnes TTSX and have also heard that since they are a full copper bullet that you can shoot a smaller grain bullet that will produce results of a higher grain bullet (ie 140 grain same results as 150-160 grain).



> I have a question for you though. I have always heard that people have a very hard time matching Weatherby's factory loads and that for some reason Weatherby factory loads are much more accurate than hand loads. Is this true? If so, why is this?


tshuntin, I have heard the same thing about Weatherby loads, but have gotten better results with my own loads. Weatherby does a good job with their loads, but they are very, very expensive! Weatherby recommends Nosler and does most their research with Nosler bullets. We dissected one of Weatherby's loads and were surprised to find that they really load the bullets up with powder. We measured the powder from their factory loads and it had 74.2 grains, and have seen as high as 76 grains! I think that is why they claim such high velocities etc.

With this in mind, we have loaded our rounds with as much powder as we can. With factory loads I consistently get 3 shots within a 1 inch group. With my hand loads I can get a half inch grouping, with 2 of the bullets usually touching (@ 100 yards). So, NO, I don't think that factory rounds are more accurate, however, they are very accurate. If someone doesn't want to take the time and effort to reload, you can always count on the factory loads. It takes some time to dial in the right bullet, with right powder, but have seen very great results hand loading.


----------



## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

A good rule of thumb is that you can get the same terminal ballistics from the next lighter weight bullet as compared to a lead core bullet (a 165 grain will be as effective as a 180 in 30 caliber). The upside to this is that you can get higher velocity and less recoil without sacrificing penetration. This is why I prefer the Barnes over the Nosler. That and the Barnes is a local company. But then we don't really want to start that whole instate vs. out of state argument again.


----------



## TmjUtah (Sep 20, 2008)

In 1995 we pulled a Barnes X bullet out of a 1300 pound Buff; sixth vertebrae was shattered, the bullet was against the hide on the far side. The range was about fifty yards (after a ten hour foot stalk that crossed the spine of Antelope Island twice) and the animal dropped dead in place.

The load was a .30'06 El Dorado factory 180 grain Barnes X. Recovered weight was was one hundred sixty eight grains and the slug was beautifully and concentrically mushroomed. 

I've loaded a lot of Noslers for accuracy but never killed anything with one. The old "X" bullets were always good for hunting but I did find them kind of frustrating where keeping the bore clean was concerned. I shoot a Remington 700 and use Sweets or Hoppes copper/lead solvent and patience to clean up.

If I was worried about hitting at range, I'd go with Nosler. But anything under three hundred yards, especially for heavy game, I'd go back and try a TSX one weight lower than what I'd use in a conventional bullet.

Good luck to you!


----------



## weatherby_man (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks for the info... I think I'll just buy both and load them up and try them out! I think the Noslers will be more accurate, especially at a longer range, but want to try the tipped tsx too!


----------



## stick_man (Sep 10, 2007)

I think you may be surprised about the accuracy of the Barnes. The TSX has come a long way in improving accuracy and barrel fowling. The TTSX even improves on that. I have loaded the TSX for several years now and have had fantastic results with it. The only Noslers I have ever been able to get anywhere near as accurate have been the Solid Based Match bullets. Even then, the TSX edges them out. Most guns are finicky about shooting the Barnes, but once you find an accurate loading, you will be very pleased with the performance of them.

The original X bullets had SEVERE barrel fowling issues and were much more difficult to find an accurate loading. I found with them that a very accurate load in 50degree weather might be a much less than desireable load at 80degrees and vice-versa. The TSX has been much more consistent.


----------



## rblum100 (Jun 2, 2012)

I hunted for Elk in Colorado this past year using an outfitter near Craig, CO. He requested that hunters who booked with him NOT use Nosler partitions. No skin off my nose as I was using Barnes. When I arrived, I asked him why he didn't allow Nosler on his hunts. He advised that he had seen too many instances of bullet disintegration and other problems with Nosler partitions, including wounded elk. He has been outfitting and guiding for years and books 26 or so hunters each year for the three rifle seasons. In all other regards he was quite normal. He has seen a lot of terminal performance on elk and really dislikes how the Nosler's work. I have to go with his judgement on this as he has seen a lot of elk killed over many many years.

I used a 300 Win Mag with 180 grain Barnes TSX, I used 71 grains of IMR 4831. I zeroed in at 300 yds. MV a nominal 3000 fps. Great groups at 300 yards. The bullets performed in an excellent manner on the elk that I shot. In fact, I think that there was a bit more damage than needed. Barnes is suggesting that hunters go down a bullet size when using Barnes TSX or TTSX. With that in mind, I am planing on working up a load for 168 grain TTSX.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I have much hate for Barnes. Terrible accuracy, I tried every powder recommended for my gun, 4831, 7828, RL19. RL22, RL25, H1000 etc. I went through several hundred test rounds before giving up. All shot craptastically: 3-3.5MOA. As a control factor, factory green box core-lok's would continually shoot under .75". The one elk I killed with an XLC, it had full penetration but when I cleaned it, it clearly looked like it didnt expand or it sheered off the petals immediately. Pinhole in, pinhole out... damage through the vitals was minor. I was lucky I clipped the top of the heart.

I've seen over 100 partitions fired and they all have had great preformance. I'd love to know how a partition could disintegrate though. Expansion, lead loss off the nose sure, but more than half the weight is in the rest of the bullet which is protected by the jacket.

/shrug everyones got different experiences


-DallanC


----------



## tapehoser (Sep 10, 2007)

rblum100 said:


> He advised that he had seen too many instances of bullet disintegration and other problems with Nosler partitions, including wounded elk. He has been outfitting and guiding for years and books 26 or so hunters each year for the three rifle seasons.


I call that dude an outright liar. Either that or he doesn't know what he's talking about.


----------



## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

I only shoot barnes in large bores (.35 +)
In a 7mm (rem or wby) I would use the 160 AB.
the 160 shoots flatter than the 140 out past 500 yards. (due to it's higher BC)

I've had smaller tsx bullets bend, shear petals, and not expand at all.
good shooting!


----------



## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

> I have a question for you though. I have always heard that people have a very hard time matching Weatherby's factory loads and that for some reason Weatherby factory loads are much more accurate than hand loads. Is this true? If so, why is this?


 That depends on the handloader,but the fact that they have the folks from Norma load WBY ammo is a big plus. Those boys don't do anything half assed.



> Weatherby recommends Nosler and does most their research with Nosler bullets.


 Were did you hear that?

I'm as big of a Barnes "Homer" as there is around. I would recommend Barnes any day of the week and I would put their accuracy and functionality against any other HUNTING bullet out there. With that being said, if I wasn't such a Barnes fan, the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw would be my follow-up choice.

I've seen half dozen elk fall to the TTSX in the last couple of years, spikes, cows, and monarch bulls...none needed more than one round and absolute destruction was left in the boiler room. I shoot the 150gr TTSX from my 7RUM and it shoots lights out. However, the new 168gr LRX has intrigued me and I'll probably test them out this year.

To each his own, find out what works best in your rifle and what you are the most confident with. Use whatever you feel you can make the most ethical kill with, and be willing to live with the results.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Good stuff guys! Just what I was looking for! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences!


----------



## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

Depending on the twist rate of your barrel you may want to watch out on heavy for caliber barnes. The lower density will force a longer bullet, which will require a faster twist to stabilize. This is a generality, I have no experience with the 7mm, you may be fine, but it is something to think about.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks, not looking for 7mm, just in general. I am looking at 223 and 243 and it looks like I have to stay in the medium weight due to the twist issue.


----------



## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

Huge29 said:


> Thanks, not looking for 7mm, just in general. I am looking at 223 and 243 and it looks like I have to stay in the medium weight due to the twist issue.


The original poster was looking at 7mm. Either way, look at the Barnes website. They have recommended twist rates for their different bullets in different chamberings.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/load-data/


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Yup, already been there, that is why I stated that I had to stick with the medium weight for the 1:9, thanks!


----------

