# Boulder Mountain 9/26-28 - Blind Lake Area - 5 trout species



## Jacksonman

This weekend confirmed my personal sentiments that Boulder Mountain is my favorite place in Utah. A few school buddies and I wanted to do a camping trip before school got too intense and we decided on the Blind Lake area of Boulder Mountain. I had been to the Donkey Lake area but never to Blind. We hit 6 or so lakes in that area - I will not give specifics of lakes in this forum but will in the confidential.

The road up to Green Lake was killer and gave my 4Runner all it could handle. The trip took longer than expected and we didn't get to our camping spot until about dark and we weren't able to fish the first day.

We got up early and fished and hiked all day the second day and floated Blind the third day in the morning before taking off. The scenery was breathtaking, the fish were plentiful, colorful and large, and the company was enjoyable. We caught lots of fish, had some fun exploring looking for unmarked lakes, and made some good memories.

I caught 33 fish for about 14-15 hours of fishing. Some lakes were absolutely amazing while some were difficult but patience paid off with larger fish. I caught 2 or 3 splake, 5 or so brooks, 1 rainbow, 4 tigers and 20 cutts. Most fish caught on luckycrafts and maribou jigs. Although grayling are up there, they evaded my hook for six-fecta that I was shooting for.

Between all five of us we probably caught 80+ fish. Biggest fish was a likely 3 lb brook that my buddy caught and two 3.5 lb cutts that myself and that same friend landed about 30 min apart at the same lake.

I have a hard time at distinguishing some fish as splake or brook. With the pictures I post, please let me know which of the fish you think are splake!!

Fall has definitely settled in up there with highs in the 60s and lows in the upper 20's. As I am typing this I wish I was back up there.

Enjoy the fish and scenery porn.

[attachment=12:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 1.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=11:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 2.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=10:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 3.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=9:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 4.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=8:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 5.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=7:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 6.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=6:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 7.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=5:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 8.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=4:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 9.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=3:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 10.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=2:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 11.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=1:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 12.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]

[attachment=0:3qx76i26]Boulder Mountain Sept 27, 2008 13.JPG[/attachment:3qx76i26]


----------



## orvis1

Nice report! Good fall fish porn...


----------



## wyoming2utah

The 3lb brook that was among the largest was probably a splake. I say that for a couple of reasons: 1) only two lakes in that area that have a population of both brook trout and cutthroat and one has only small brook trout that were planted this past spring 2) the only lake that has brook trout and cutthroat that could be of that size rarely produces brook trout over about 14-16 inches and they are almost always unhealthy fish.

The brook trout and splake from that same lake are often hard to distinguish from one another...but, I would say that only the last fish in your pics could be a brook trout.

FWIW, I am jealous. I have only been up there once this year...


----------



## dkhntrdstn

Those are some good looking fish there


----------



## Greenguy88

Great looking fish man! Thanks for sharing. I made it down to the Boulders last year, but it doesnt look like Im gunna be able to get there this year. THanks for showin me what im missin :wink:


----------



## LOAH

Now that looks like a really nice time. Good report.

What a piggy cutthroat! Yes, I'm jealous.


----------



## Ifish

Absolutely beautiful area and nice fish! I have only been to the Boulder Mtn. area one time but I NEED to go back!


----------



## BERG

Fantastic fish photos...and lots of fish envy. Good job guys. 8)


----------



## XxFIREBOYxX

BEAUTIFUL FISH!!!! ! ! Great report thanks for sharing!


----------



## DocEsox

Beautiful fish and photos.......impressive with five different kinds fish. To actually be accurate the tiger trout cannot be considered a species since it is sterile and can't reproduce. Although splakes can occur naturally and reproduce they are uncommon even in the natural distributions where lakers and brookies overlap. Would have to agree most of the char are splake except the last one....brookies have a pretty square tail....splakes are more indented like lakers. Also the vermiculations are generally different on the back and dorsal on a splake.....plus I'm probably making half of this crap up...but hey....it's fun... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Again...nice fish....those tigers are just plain weird looking...

Brian


----------



## LOAH

DocEsox said:


> Again...nice fish....those tigers are just plain weird looking...


I think you're just jealous that you can only read about how fun they are to catch from way up there... :wink:

C'mon, Doc. Mutants need love too. :lol: Come on down and catch some bigguns. You'll be a fan.


----------



## wyoming2utah

DocEsox said:


> To actually be accurate the tiger trout cannot be considered a species since it is sterile and can't reproduce. Although splakes can occur naturally and reproduce they are uncommon even in the natural distributions where lakers and brookies overlap.


Although rare, tiger trout do occur naturally in the wild. Like natural/wild splake, though, they cannot reproduce.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/article_g ... t-Photos/2


----------



## peacefish

Is there evidence that Tiger trout have occured naturally in Utah?

Tiger trout are EXPENSIVE to engineer...


----------



## wyoming2utah

YES! Tiger trout have been documented to have occurred naturally within the Logan River system.


----------



## FLYFSHR

ALSO..I could be wrong but I heard that not all Tigers are sterile.
Is that true W2U?


----------



## LOAH

I watched my buddy catch a 5 inch tiger, several years ago in a drainage that had never been stocked with them...There were already significant brookie and brown populations, so it's not too surprising.


----------



## wyoming2utah

FLYFSHR said:


> ALSO..I could be wrong but I heard that not all Tigers are sterile.
> Is that true W2U?


From what I understand, tiger trout are 100% sterile...


----------



## FLYFSHR

[/quote]
From what I understand, tiger trout are 100% sterile...[/quote]

Gotcha, I was gonna ask this earlier and forgot.

Are they sterile due to a genetics thing in the fish? Or is there any "heat shocking" to eggs like some other species that would result in that.
The reason I ask is because some say egg shocking doesn't always turn out 100%


----------



## Size Matters

Looks Like you had a awesome time thanks for sharing the great photos.


----------



## DocEsox

Yes....tigers are all sterile due to genetic incompatibility. Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific in that without man's intervention there would never be any chance of a tiger trout as the native distributions of these fish do not overlap. Brown trout are native purely to the eastern hemisphere......all populations in the western hemisphere are introduced. And the native distribution of brook trout is eastern Canada and US..... The only trout native to Utah waters are cutthroat trout.....bonneville and Colorado River subspecies.....originally a few Yellowstones in the extreme northwestern part of Utah....but those are gone now.

According to Dr. Robert Behnke....foremost authority on North American salmonids....there have been only a few, if any, documented cases of wild tiger trout hybrids....but it is always possible where the species overlap.

Again......very nice fish......and the tigers still look wierd..... _(O)_ _(O)_ 
Brian


----------



## Jesse Higgins

> To actually be accurate the tiger trout cannot be considered a species


If they cannot be considered a species what are they. Just a hybrid?

Learnin' sumpthin' new every day... 8)


----------



## DocEsox

Jesse.....tigers don't have a scientific name because they are an infertile intergeneric hybrid....they are generally referred to as Salvelinus fontinalis X Salmo trutta, identifying the parental species. Specifically tiger trout are produced by a male brook trout and a female brown trout....these are rare naturally. The other cross of a male brown trout X female brook trout has not been found naturlly but can be produced artificially and is referred to as a "leopard" trout.

Splake aren't given a separate species name either even though they occur naturally within their native distribution areas. They are an interspecies hybrid but within the same genus. They are fertile and can reproduce.

It can really get confusing.

Brian


----------



## FLYFSHR

DocEsox said:


> Splake aren't given a separate species name either even though they occur naturally within their native distribution areas. They are an interspecies hybrid but within the same genus. They are fertile and can reproduce.
> 
> It can really get confusing.


I pulled this from the DWR board...

Sterile trout such as splake cannot reproduce. This makes it easier for fisheries managers to keep the number of trout at a level that provides them with plenty of food. Because there's plenty of food to eat, the trout grow rapidly. Splake also grow bigger faster because they're not using their energy to reproduce.

confusing is a good word.


----------



## DocEsox

Flyfshr.....there is nothing in splake hybrids that would render them infertile....S. fontinalis X S. namaycush hybrids were stocked extensively in the Great Lakes in an attempt to restore a naturally reproducing population.....it didn't work as the entire ecosystem is so messed up there are way too many other problems. I can only assume that Utah hatcheries producing splake are using heat treatment of the eggs to produce sterile triploids....a common practice with many types of stocked trout in many places. Having sterile fish doesn't effect the native fish as much and they can't reproduce...although they do create other issues....just depends of whether you feel native fish should be restored to their native waters or just leave the current mess of nonnative fish as they are.....

Brian


----------



## PBH

Splake are for the most part sterile. They are not heat shocked that i am aware of. Splake do, in many cases, go through a false spawn -- however, the chances of a sterile splake meeting up with another sterile splake and producing offspring are pretty unrealistic. There are no documented cases of splake reproducing in Utah.


----------



## DocEsox

PBH.....after reviewing some more literature it appears we are both right. Although splake are considered fertile and do reproduce naturally in hatchery situations there is currently no documentation of them reproducing in the wild.....so that would make them functionally sterile....but still capable of reproducing....yeah.

The reason they grow faster is due to hybrid vigor....even though they are biologically fertile.

Although it is kind of a mote point in Utah anyway as both brookies and lakers are nonnative, introduced fish....so even if they did manage to spawn with wild fish it is not like it is causing introgression of genes in a native population.

If you are interested the following is some snippets from the literature on the subject:

"Transactions of the American Fisheries Society
Article: pp. 172-181 | Abstract | PDF (473K)
Appearance and Fertility of Trout Hybrids
Keen Bussa and James E. Wrightb 
a. Pennsylvania Fish Commission, Benner Spring Fish Research Station, Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, b. Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 
Abstract.-Mature hybrids among brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis), brown trout (Salmo trutta), rainbow trout (Salmo gairdneri), and lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush) involving reciprocal crosses, backcrosses and three-way crosses were utilized to test fertility and to present photographic records of external charcteristics.
Fertile hybrids found among the fish tested were splake (lake trout X brook trout) and the backcross progeny of splake X brook trout. Limited fertility was found in one "tiger" trout male (brown trout female X brook trout male) and in nine yearling males originating from crosses of rainbow trout females X brook trout males. These fertile individuals have been backcrossed to the parental species with limited results to date.
DOI: 10.1577/1548-8659(1957)87[172:AAFOTH]2.0.CO;2
Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 1958;87:172-181
Genetics and Fish Breeding
By C. E. Purdom

Genetics and Fish Breeding provides a thorough review of this important subject, highlighting species which are bred commercially, such as salmon, trout, carp and goldfish. The author, who is an acknowledged expert in this subject, has drawn together a wealth of information, providing a book which should be bought by all fish biologists, fisheries scientists, geneticists and aquarists.

More details
Genetics and Fish Breeding
By C. E. Purdom
Published by Springer, 1993
ISBN 0412330407, 9780412330407
277 pages

" F1 Splake: An Annotated Bibliography and Literature Review" 
By: S. J. Kerr
Fisheries Section: Fish and Wildlife Branch
The following is a precise of the above mentioned article. 
The splake is a man-created hybrid between our two native trout resulting from the fertilization of lake trout eggs with brook trout sperm. The hybrid combines many of the qualities of its parents - including the brook trout's fast growth and the lake trout's large size.
• Hybrids are intermediate in the characters of both their parents.
• Preferred temperatures can be influenced by the thermal history of the fish but generally F1 hybrids prefer waters near 12º C while F3 and F4 hybrids favor temperatures in the 15 - 16º C range.
• Growth is generally rapid. Relative growth rates change with age.
• Maturation is intermediate from both parents (i.e., 1 - 2 years later than brook trout and 3 - 4 years earlier than lake trout).
• Splake have a much broader range in seasonal spawning time than either parent.
• Hybrids frequent relatively shallow waters during the spring and fall. In summer they aggregated near the thermocline concentrating within the 8 - 20º C isotherm.
• Splake prefer barren, clear water of medium-sized lakes ranging from 50 - 200 acres in size with maximum depths of 40 - 80 feet.
• The hybrid has a more rapid growth rate than either parent and a longer life span than the brook trout.
• Splake feed heavily on crustaceans and insects during early life and gradually become more piscivorous as size increases.
• Splake have a strong tendency to school which often gives rise to short periods of intensive angling success.
• Splake are excellent fighters with flesh which is pink through orange in color and is highly regarded for its eating qualities.
• Unlike many hybrids, the splake is able to reproduce and while it prefers the gravel seepage shoals usually used by brook trout for lake spawning, in the absence of these it will use the boulder shoals favoured by lake trout.
• Splake are usually mature in their third year of life and their spawning period falls closer to thatof the brook trout in late October or early November.
Experiments with developing Splake have been around since the late 1800's. Between 1915 - 1917 reference was made to crossing brook trout and lake trout at the Port Arthur federal fish hatchery in Ontario (Scott 1956). As far back as 1946, this cross was undertaken in western Canada and third generation fish have been produced there. It may be interesting to note that the cross can only be made successfully byusing lake trout females and speckled trout males. In the reverse cross, the speckled trout eggs is too small for the developing embryo.
After the collapse of the lake trout population in the upper Great Lakes, the Department of Lands and Forests embarked on a trout rehabilitation program during the late 1950s. The species chosen for the job was the splake, a cross between the lake trout and the brook trout. What was desired was a fish with the early maturing characteristics of the brook trout and the deep swimming ability of the lake trout.
Geneticists refer to the progeny of the first cross as the F1 generation. The hybrids are fertile so an F1 male may be crossed to an F1 female to produce the second generation known as F2 splake. This process may be repeated indefinitely giving rise to F3, F4, F5 splake and all possible combinations of crosses such as F2 x F5. It is also possible to breed splake back to either parent species. Progeny of these crosses are called "backcrosses". Geneticists now know that the splake is a stable hybrid which will not revert to the parental species. Selective breeding of splake has been successful in two important respects. First, they mature at age 3 or younger like the speckled trout; this is four to five years earlier than lake trout. Second, they occupy deep water; the latter characteristic is similar to that of lake trout which differ from brook trout in their ability to retain swimbladder gas.

Splake
(Salvelinus fontinalis x S. namaycush) 
Physical Description

Spawning Habits 
Unlike most hybrids, splake are capable of reproducing. However, though they have reproduced in hatcheries, and have successfully back-crossed (splake breeding with one of the parent species) in hatcheries, there are no documented cases of splake actually reproducing in either fashion in the wild.

Regardless, even though splake are presumed sterile in the wild, they still make a spawning run. Spawning takes place in the fall, usually in October, when they migrate to shallow, rocky reefs that are often near the lake's tributaries..."

Brian


----------

