# A broadhead discussion



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

First off, let me apologize if this discussion has already been had on here ad nauseam. However, I'm trying to select the ultimate broadhead(s) for myself and my wife to use on the archery hunt next year and it's always interesting and useful to get feedback from a lot of different people who have tried a variety of different products.

Last year was our first year bow hunting and I had my wife take to the field with montecs. My wife shot a beautiful 4 point and the montec gave her a complete pass-through at 45 yards with a modest 50 lb. draw weight and 26" draw length. I give the montec its due for accomplishing this but one thing it did fail to do was give us a very good blood trail. I'll admit that the shot placement was not optimal. It was a little too far back and just a little bit low hitting the liver and barely clipping the bottom corner of the onside lung. Now when I say it didn't give us a blood trail, I mean it didn't leave any blood whatsoever at all! The buck probably ran about 200 yards from where he was hit and we never found a speck of blood. Even where he laid down and died he didn't leak anything with two 1 1/8 inch holes in his body. We were very lucky to find him!

I've done a lot of reading on the montecs since then and it seems like weak blood trails are a recurring theme with them. Many people say that due to the angle of the blade they just aren't very sharp out of the package and it's hard to get them sharp. A lack of sharpness in your broadhead will cause it to push passed blood vessels and veins without cutting them resulting in a weaker blood trail according to a lot of people so using a razor sharp head is very important.

What I'm looking for now is a head with great flight characteristics, awesome reliability, deep penetration, and of course sharpness. Scary sharpness! What broadhead do you feel gives you the best balance of all these criteria?

I've thought about making the switch to an expandable and having my wife shoot the rage low ke but I've just heard too much negative about them to trust them. Archery internet forums are absolutely littered with people who loathe the rage but then of course there are a lot of people who love the rage too and get fantastic blood trails with them. Does anybody here have any experience with low poundage shooters shooting the rage low ke?

Another broadhead I've looked into a lot is the NAP hellrazor. I like the simple one piece construction and a lot of people speak highly of the sharpness of NAP products. The one knock I have seen about the NAP hellrazor is some issues with planing and getting a little squirrelly at higher speeds. My wife's setup is probably shooting in the low 200's and my bow is shooting somewhere in the ball park of 260 or 270 so maybe we wouldn't have these flight issues with the hellrazor? What do you guys think of this broadhead for moderate to slower speed bows. 

I've also looked into the replaceable blade fixed heads like the NAP thunderhead and of course muzzy. A lot of people swear by muzzy broadheads and one great thing about them is you can buy them without having to take out a second mortgage on the house. A common knock against muzzy is that they can have poor flight characteristics as well. Once again, neither of us is shooting a speed demon setup so maybe this wouldn't be an issue. How do the muzzys compare with NAP thunderheads? Does one have a definitive advantage over the other. It looks like you can pick up the muzzys a little cheaper but many people say that the thunderheads are a lot sharper which is very important to me.

Any input you have on these broadheads as well as any I didn't mention would be greatly appreciated. I'd be very interested to hear what broadhead you have on your arrows and why.


----------



## Sawbillslayer (Oct 24, 2013)

I have been archery hunting for 13 years I have shot thunder heads, inner locks, muzzys, rage, and now I am stuck on ramcats. The reason I shoot ramcats is they have a back cut. The blade is sharp on the front and back of the blades and these are tough heads. Some people don't like them but I am mostly an elk hunter and that back cut saved me this year. I shot my elk slightly quartering away and I double lunged it and hit the shoulder on the other side. The broadhead moved back into the body cavity and hacked the lungs and liver to pieces just from the elk running. Good blood trail the elk was dead with in about 100 yards. I loved muzzys when I was shooting a slower but with faster speed I couldn't group, same thing with the thunderheads. The Rage if you are just hunting deer they are fantastic I have seen them do great things on deer. The only this is that my dad shot a spike elk with one and only one blade deployed. The other two blades were buried into the aluminum body of the head. That is when we made the change to ramcats. If you need any other info feel free to give me a pm.


----------



## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

My two cents from experience.

I use Trophy Ridge Meat Seekers and have never had an animal go further than 75 yards in the four years that I've used them. They are solid, reliable, fly great, and most important make big holes even if you hit a rib. I've only had one fail to pass through and that was a cow elk at 40 yards and I hit her on the opposite side shoulder blade while she was quartered away. She died exactly in the same place she was standing when I let fly.

Trophy Ridge Meat Seeker 2

If I had to chose a different one, I hear nothing but good things about the Epeks and Rage broadheads and would go that route. After what I've seen mechanicals do compared to the years of using various other fixed blade heads, I'll never go back.

Epek Broadheads

Rage Broadheads

I used Monotecs and they are reliable, easy to hone, and build very solidly but even finely tuned can have flight issues if they ever hit something solid and are used again.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

klbzdad said:


> My two cents from experience.
> 
> I use Trophy Ridge Meat Seekers and have never had an animal go further than 75 yards in the four years that I've used them. They are solid, reliable, fly great, and most important make big holes even if you hit a rib. I've only had one fail to pass through and that was a cow elk at 40 yards and I hit her on the opposite side shoulder blade while she was quartered away. She died exactly in the same place she was standing when I let fly.
> 
> ...


 You hear nothing but good things about Rage broadheads, klbzdad? Haha, I take it you don't frequent archerytalk.com very much. I hear great things about Rage but it seems like for every guy you hear of that swears by them there is a guy that swears at them. I've heard so many stories of blades deploying prematurely, poor penetration, broken blades and what have you. But then there's an army of loyal fans who say they have never had a failure with this broadhead and they leave Stevie Wonder blood trails. I've noticed a huge number of people on both sides of the fence regarding the Rage broadhead.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Sawbill, I have heard many great things about the Ramcat. I will have to check them out. I haven't seen any stores that carry them in my neck of the woods though.


----------



## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't do archerytalk.com. We have three in our camp that swear by them and each take a deer or elk every year. I've never had a deployment failure with the Meat Seekers. In fact, I've reused the same broadhead for both my deer and then an elk in the same year. That broadhead is still on an arrow in my quiver. 

You have to find what works for you and what you're comfortable with using. Preferences on equipment are like sphincters though, every one has their own.....thus, only my 2 pennies on the matter. If you need a tie breaking decision maker, Epeks are made in Utah and since my first post, I've watched a couple videos on them. Pretty darn impressive and I might just have to try them.


----------



## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I shoot wacem tritons. They're a good solid head that flies and groups well.


----------



## Nalgi (Apr 16, 2010)

I shoot Buzz Cut Stingers because they are cut on contact. Isnt that they way the arrow points have been for thousands of years? No question guarantee, sent em back and they will sharpen them, fly great, will pass through a shoulder!

And if I can get 80 yard accuracy with one, think what you can do!
:shock:


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

If you shoot a deer "further back" than you want an expandable will work better. It has a larger cutting area.

I have seen over ten deer and two elk shot with the monetec or wacem style heads. They all had short heavy blood trails except an elk that had no or little blood but was recovered after about 80 yards. 

I have also seen some poor shots on deer with a wacem or monetec head that still left blood trails a blind man could follow so I have quite a bit of confidence using them. 

Ill give the nod to a fixed blade at penatration and angled shots especially with low lb bows.


----------



## Razkul99 (Oct 29, 2009)

As has already been pointed out, you are going to find supporters on both sides of the fence regarding the fixed vs mechanical broadhead discussion. FWIW, some time ago I worked at an archery shop in South Carolina and routinely heard customers talk about how straight the mechanicals fly. However, I never saw any quantifiable difference in the flight of fixed blades vs mechanical from my bows. To me, what they were really saying is "the mechanicals fly better/more accurately" because I don't keep my bow properly tuned. 

I have tried several of the expandable broadheads (Reapers, Tekken T3, Rage, Epeks, etc) and honestly have had each one of them fail to open, open prematurely, or break during the course of shooting them at the range or in the field. While this is by no means the norm, there is no getting around the fact that mechanical broadheads, by design, introduce the potential for another thing to go right or wrong in their specific operation where as fixed broadheads don't.

What it boils down to is that each archer has decide what is appropriate for their hunting preferences and game. If you are looking for larger wound channels on most game and don't have issues with more moving parts, expandable broadheads may be for you. For me, I personally just try to keep things as simple as possible... and I have also been on hunts were the guide/outfitter did not recommend or even allow mechanical broadheads for whatever reason (game size, previous experience, etc). YMMV.


----------



## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

If you are going for the mechanical...I'll second the Trophy Ridge Meat Seeker. I've shot 6 deer with them and every deer I have shot with them left great blood trails and didn't go but 80 yards max before expiring. I was drawn to it because of the piston type head. I liked the design and it made sense to me. It's never failed me and I'll keep on shooting it. I've tried other mechanicals but haven't had the same success as I have with the meat seekers. I shot a deer with a Rage Hypodermic this year and never recovered it. When I shot it, the shot looked good but was surprised that I didn't get a complete pass through. As the deer ran away I could see my arrow sticking quite a ways out of the deers shoulder. I went up to where the deer was standing and there was ZERO blood. I finally found blood on a trail about 150 yards from where the buck was standing when I shot it. I followed the small drops of blood that were on the trail but the blood eventually dried up. I even found the arrow with blades that were bent. I later found the deer on my trail camera and he was just fine. Now, whether that was the shot (I think I was too far forward and buried the head in the bone), or the the broadhead I can't be sure. I've never had problems shooting that meat seeker and the shot placement is the same. It seems that that meat seeker moves around bone. I've never had bent heads and they always perform. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

I havent seen anything on youtube or the internet that compares to the epek. The videos speak for themselves. Especially the hog and alligator hunts. The big selling point for me is how they fly exactly like field tips. During the summer I am working 60-70 hours a week and 6-7 days a week. The only time i get to practice is at an indoor range at night that doesnt allow broadheads. I like the fact that I can shoot my field tips year round and have a broadhead that flys the exact same.


----------



## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

I havent seen anything on youtube or the internet that compares to the epek. The videos speak for themselves. Especially the hog and alligator hunts. The big selling point for me is how they fly exactly like field tips. During the summer I am working 60-70 hours a week and 6-7 days a week. The only time i get to practice is at an indoor range at night that doesnt allow broadheads. I like the fact that I can shoot my field tips year round and have a broadhead that flys the exact same.


----------



## Sawbillslayer (Oct 24, 2013)

Where do you live? I know in Ephraim they carry them and now that I am up North I order them on line or have my little brother pick them up. I love the ramcat broadhead.


----------



## elkmule123 (Aug 14, 2013)

My first deer I shot with a bow, I used the grim reaper mech. It flies great and did the job. The one part I'm baffled on was that I shot it through the heart and still got no blood trail. I was able to recovery the animal because it ran right at me after I shot it. It would have plowed me over if it didn't turn off its path maybe 5 yards in front of me and felt just to my left. I doubt I'll get an easier tracking job then that. :grin: This year I went with the ramcat because I knew I'd be hunting elk and did not want to take a chance of not getting a blood trail. Which I got on my elk. There are two potential issues with the ramcat, and my BIL experience one on his broadheads. He didn't notice that the blade set screw were loose on his set of broadheads. So when he pulled one arrow out of his quiver, he notice it was missing a blade. The next arrow, one of the blades on the head had racked forward. Now the ability for the blade to move forward is a feature of the broadhead (giving more cutting area on the back cutting edge when the arrow is pulled or works its way out while the animal is running) but because his set screws were loose, it did it when he pulled it out of his quiver. Mine where tight and took a bit more force to move the blade forward. Of course the simple fix is to check the set screws.


----------



## elkmule123 (Aug 14, 2013)

My BIL's cousin shot an elk and hit it in shoulder with a grim reaper. No blood trail, we did recover the animal and found the broadhead inside with a busted off blade.


----------



## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

I shoot Wac-em 2bl XL and G5 Strikers as my fixed blades, and G5 T-3 and Ulmer Edge by Trophy Taker as my expandables.


----------



## elkmule123 (Aug 14, 2013)

How have you liked the Ulmer Edge? Any issues?


----------



## bowhunter1 (Nov 18, 2012)

My experience for what it's worth:
I've used Thunderheads, NAP Nitrons, Muzzys, Slick Tricks, Rocket Hammerheads, Trophy Ridge Meat Seekers, Rocket Steelheads, and a few others. 
I've used the Steelhead 125 exclusively for the last 4 seasons and have no plans to change (I'm stocking up in bulk on these heads!).
Here's why: 
1. They shoot spot-on with my field points to 80 yds and beyond
2. They are absolutely tough as nails. I put one straight through the shoulder blade of a big cow elk last year and it took out both lungs with all parts intact. 
3. Their penetration is hard to beat. Bill Winke (who now hosts Midwest Whitetail online) has killed literally hundreds of deer with them and performed scientific penetration tests years ago comparing a number of excellent heads. He found that the Steelhead even out-penetrated the tried-and-true fixed blade heads like Thunderheads and Muzzys. 
I've personally seen complete pass-throughs on whitetails from a direct shoulder blade hit, and the cow elk last year settled the penetration question for me (I shoot 70 lbs). 
4. I've seen the results myself on 15 deer, an elk, a turkey, a fox and I can't remember what other small critters. This head has never been anything but outstanding for me. Just put one through the lungs of a fat doe at 56 yds Sunday evening and she went maybe 50 yds with blood splashed everywhere.

There are many well-made heads on the market today (plus a few I would never think of shooting!). I think the key is to pick a reputable head that you personally have complete confidence in.


----------



## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

A straw can double lung a whitetail.....sorry, had to rib ya on that one bowhunter1. 

I have 4 elk, 11 MULE DEER, half a dozen coyotes, and several aspen trees with just the origional six Meat Seekers. They WILL deploy on impact and so long as you're getting a minimum of 40 flbs they stayed deployed. They are held in place by a band which I replace with orthodontic bands that hold up to weather better. Once deployed on contact, the angled chisle head allows the broadhead to rotate (spin) to find least resistance or move past a rib while maintaining momentum and energy. IF.....IF there isn't a pass through, the blades angle forward and are thin enough that as they move through the cavity, they act as a food processor as the animal moves. And again, I've used one broadhead multiple times and its still sharp, clean, and straight. 

You have many good suggestions to start with and just getting started is tough as hell now compared to twenty years ago when there were few choices for shafts (I used Easton Aluminum Gamegetter II's 2016) and not a huge number of broadheads to choose from either (I used Satelites that weren't so tough but worked). If you want to look at the Meat Seeker, give me a call. I don't work this weekend and you're welcome to stop buy and check them out. I have a set I might let you walk away with.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

klbzdad said:


> A straw can double lung a whitetail.....sorry, had to rib ya on that one bowhunter1.
> 
> I have 4 elk, 11 MULE DEER, half a dozen coyotes, and several aspen trees with just the origional six Meat Seekers. They WILL deploy on impact and so long as you're getting a minimum of 40 flbs they stayed deployed. They are held in place by a band which I replace with orthodontic bands that hold up to weather better. Once deployed on contact, the angled chisle head allows the broadhead to rotate (spin) to find least resistance or move past a rib while maintaining momentum and energy. IF.....IF there isn't a pass through, the blades angle forward and are thin enough that as they move through the cavity, they act as a food processor as the animal moves. And again, I've used one broadhead multiple times and its still sharp, clean, and straight.
> 
> You have many good suggestions to start with and just getting started is tough as hell now compared to twenty years ago when there were few choices for shafts (I used Easton Aluminum Gamegetter II's 2016) and not a huge number of broadheads to choose from either (I used Satelites that weren't so tough but worked). If you want to look at the Meat Seeker, give me a call. I don't work this weekend and you're welcome to stop buy and check them out. I have a set I might let you walk away with.


That sounds good Shawn, I'm actually leaving to go to SLC tomorrow and will be gone til late Sunday spending Thanksgiving week with the in-laws.-O,-:--x

Maybe we can catch up sometime after that...if 5 days in a row with my mother-in-law doesn't kill me first! I might need one of those broadheads to use on my wrists.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

bowhunter1 said:


> My experience for what it's worth:
> I've used Thunderheads, NAP Nitrons, Muzzys, Slick Tricks, Rocket Hammerheads, Trophy Ridge Meat Seekers, Rocket Steelheads, and a few others.
> I've used the Steelhead 125 exclusively for the last 4 seasons and have no plans to change (I'm stocking up in bulk on these heads!).
> Here's why:
> ...


I've heard good things about the rocket steelhead. Sounds like it's performed very well for you. Guess that's another option to muddy the waters as I try to decide on a broadhead!


----------



## PaleHorse1 (Jul 11, 2011)

I shot nap thunderheads for years. A couple of years ago I switched to G5 strikers. I have shot four animals with them. Three of which went less than 50 yards. All shots were pass through. 1 bull elk, two deer and an antelope. They all left great blood trails. The animal that went the furthest was a deer he went about 300 yards and left this blood trail.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies guys. This thread has probably muddied the waters even more haha. I think we all like to over analyze things into the ground when any reasonable quality, sharp broadhead will do the trick when we do our part and stick the arrow in the right place. However, we all probably feel like there is one broadhead that can do it a little bit better or give us a little bit more of an edge than the others.

One broadhead that I'm really curious about right now is the Rage low ke. Do any of you have experience with this head? My wife likes the thought of using a mechanical and this head sounds like it is supposed to be the ticket for lower draw weight/length archers who want to use a mechanical. She is shooting a 25ish inch draw and pulling 50 pounds on a Bear Homewrecker. If she kept her shots to say no further than 45 yards on deer only do you think this head would serve her well. I'd love to hear from anyone who has seen women or young kids shooting this head.


----------

