# Utah Deer Muzzleloader Season Following LE Elk Issue



## bj_utah (Aug 28, 2015)

I've been muzzleloader buck hunting in Utah for about 5 years now. I am always irritated that the general season muzzleloader deer hunt directly follows the LE Elk any legal weapon hunt. By the time a muzzleloader hunter is in the woods the bucks have changed their habits drastically as a result of the LE Elk hunt which is essentially a rifle hunt. I would like to see muzzleloader seasons be the first to follow the archery season.

I spoke with a UDWR person about this, they suggested attending the the November RAC meetings to voice my opinion and suggest a change of dates. Inputs from the regional RAC meetings go directly to the December UDWR board meeting where season dates are discussed and set. I'm planning to attend the November12th Central Regional RAC at the Civic Center at 110 South Main Street, Springville at 6:30 PM. Would anyone be interested in showing group force to get the general buck muzzleloader season changed to follow directly after the archery season?


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

Are you proposing moving the LE elk muzzy before the Early LE any weapon?

If so I think you are fighting a steep uphill battle. Most hunters want that early rut rifle hunt.

Personally I am an favor of switching them.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Good luck! I think the LE elk hunters like hunting during the rut too much.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Money talks. Elk will win out. Even if I agree.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

....and while your at it....push the archery elk hunts forward 2 weeks :O||:


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I would rather see the ML go back to November personally.... Good luck having ML start immediately after the archery. If it started the following wednesday (16th) it would run to the 24th. That is AFTER LE has started. No one will ever want to push these special seasons back, out of the rut...


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I don't think the Le elk rifle hunt is hurting the ML deer hunt much at all. There aren't a ton of LE rifle hunters. I think it is just the changing pattern of the deer . They have shed the velvet and are hard horned and many have split off from the early bachelor groups. and if it's a hot september, than that just makes it even tougher.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

If it did get changed move ut back to November.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Nah, the bucks change their habits more from going from Velvet to Hard horned more than any LE elk pressure. Happens every year right around the 2nd week in sept. Antlers harden up and the bucks start disappearing into thicker brush (I assume because velvet is sensitive to being bumped / scrapped on brush).

I see this year after year in spots where there are lots of deer but ZERO elk, once that velvet comes off they change patterns. Its one major reason I never scout much before the ML hunt starts.

-DallanC


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## Fishracer (Mar 2, 2009)

I dont think i has any effect on the deer what so ever. There are very few hunters out chasing elk with rifles. A non issue as far as im concerned. I love the way it is set up now.


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## bj_utah (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks to all of you for expressing your thoughts. The RAC sounds like it would be a waste of my time. Guess I'll just go hunt and forget about being irritated. It seems reasonable that the bucks are less brush sensitive by late September. Plus around that time the acorns in the oak brush are ready. In the Wasatch Mtns, West unit there are 232 LE Elk tags this year, not too many given the area, compared to 866 muzzleloader tags, and 4194 rifle tags. Wonder how many bucks are actually in this unit. 

A few years ago I muzzleloader hunted the southern portion of this unit from horseback and from ATV and did some hikes into rough terraine. The only buck I saw was a three point hanging in someones camp. Three weeks before the hunt I had easily seen 5-6 bucks from 4x4 down. This year I'm hunting the northern portion. Between eyes and game camera I have seen 8-9 bucks. But wonder if it will be the same. The northern portion is less open, much thicker country. And has anyone noticed that the General Buck muzzleloader season gets the full moon, I'm hoping for clouds, and some rain/snow?


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

My experience is that the deer get more pressure from guys scouting than they do from LE elk hunters. Archers get them out of their routine also. All good though, we need to share the great outdoors and the experience with everyone. 

I'd expect to see 5-15 different bucks each scouting trip in the unit. At least where I hunt, which seems to be where everyone else hunts too.... Good luck on your hunt, there are lots of deer around this year to chase.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

You're going to have 865 of the 866 ppl hunting with you in the northern part of the unit. Good luck. The other guy has to work.


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## bj_utah (Aug 28, 2015)

Packout - care to share where it is that you see 5-15 bucks every scouting trip?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

bj_utah said:


> Packout - care to share where it is that you see 5-15 bucks every scouting trip?


You really think someone's going to give out a honey hole on the internet to a guy with 3 posts???

Get high, get off the road, use good glass and you can see bucks in alot of places. Do your own legwork.

-DallanC


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## Mtngoat690 (Oct 29, 2014)

Get high, get off the road, use good glass and you can see bucks in alot of places. Do your own legwork.

-DallanC[/quote]

:V|: A wise man once said "Hike until you see the Ptarmigan and then........" well I can't really remember the rest so I say start there and then if you shoot one of those Ptarmigan and post some pictures you can get some sort of credential points. On that note......if you do happen to make it to the Ptarmigan you'll also most likely be out of the crowds.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I was just up in the northern part of the area tonight. Sat and glassed and watched 7 trucks and 3 utv's drive past a herd of 6 bucks. Watched them for over an hr. Nobody even stopped and we saw them from the road initially so they were visible. No one wants to do any work. I'm betting 3/4 of the trucks were hunters. They aren't that hard to find.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

There are bucks everywhere this year. We have been seeing 10 to 35 bucks a day and several of them are big. I find some people are simply looking in all the wrong places. 

I don't want to see the muzzy hunt changed but wouldn't mind seeing the LE rifle hunt changed. If you avoid the weekends and put some effort in you will see bucks. The deer are pretty much in the same area you find them early season but their more nocturnal.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

bj_utah said:


> I've been muzzleloader buck hunting in Utah for about 5 years now. I am always irritated that the general season muzzleloader deer hunt directly follows the LE Elk any legal weapon hunt. By the time a muzzleloader hunter is in the woods the bucks have changed their habits drastically as a result of the LE Elk hunt which is essentially a rifle hunt. I would like to see muzzleloader seasons be the first to follow the archery season.
> 
> I spoke with a UDWR person about this, they suggested attending the the November RAC meetings to voice my opinion and suggest a change of dates. Inputs from the regional RAC meetings go directly to the December UDWR board meeting where season dates are discussed and set. I'm planning to attend the November12th Central Regional RAC at the Civic Center at 110 South Main Street, Springville at 6:30 PM. Would anyone be interested in showing group force to get the general buck muzzleloader season changed to follow directly after the archery season?


The rifle hunters don't effect the muzzy hunt that much. You go to units with hardly any or no elk mule deer change their habits their to. Archery hunters spook deer to. Sounds like an excuse don't like the idea of going after fellow hunters and fighting each other over season dates


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

I agree 100% about moving the general muzzle deer back to November. When I was in high school about the time inlines came out and the hunt was still in Nov. Giant bucks were being shot ever year and I think that has some reason why they changed it in the first place because it was so much easier with the new guns to kill the monsters. I love hunting with inlines but I would be willing to go back to cap and ball if I could hunt in Nov.again. Peace


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Nearly 30 days of archery isn't having an effect? 

Thanks to option 2 the buck to hunter ratio is pretty favorable. If you can't get a buck today hang it up.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Iron Bear said:


> Nearly 30 days of archery isn't having an effect?
> 
> Thanks to option 2 the buck to hunter ratio is pretty favorable. If you can't get a buck today hang it up.


Are you kidding me? Opt 2 dumped +2k more hunters into my unit. The only reason things are "favorable" right now is several mild winters in a row. Thats IT.

-DallanC


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Dallan beat me too it^^^^


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

It took about 4000 out of mine. 

And the weather has been the same as it's been for the last 500 yrs.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I have a LE ELk ML tag this year. I would like to see the ML season go before the Rifle too. After the Rifle hunt, the Elk are all skittish, and spooky as all get out. But Hey, I could have put in for the rifle hunt and not had to worry about spooked up Elk. 

You will never see the LE ML Elk hunt go before the LE Rifle Elk! The F&G get there harvest objective #s from the LE Rifle. As far as attending a RAC Meeting????? Please, don't even waste the time unless you have a VERY large Group, and a Deeper than Black Hole pocket book!!-O,-


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

In the past 10 years, I've shot most of my deer at 75 yards or less. Not spooked at all. In that same time frame, there have been multiple occassions I could have shrown a rock at a great bull within 30 yards of me on the muzzy hunt. I hunt a LE Elk area as well. I don't have an issue with the time at all. Maybe the area I hunt is an anomoly!


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## Mr.CheddarNut (Jan 16, 2013)

I have been hunting with a smokepole forever. I too miss the days when it was in November. It was fantastic. I like hunting in the cold and snow but don't have much to say for the rifle deer hunt. You will never see the muzzleloader hunt in November again. The DWR doesn't care how big of a deer you shoot. They moved it because by their data the bucks were getting pushed too late in the year thus not breeding the does as effectively until later in the year, thus having births of the fawns later in the spring to come, thus said fawns not being as big and healthy come winter time and not surviving their first winter. But oh how wonderful it was when we had it.

Cheddar


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