# Dog owners beware!



## Springville Shooter

If you see the cops, hide your bird dogs. A nice Weimaraner was killed by a cop in SLC when he entered the back yard looking for a lost kid and thought the dog was going to attack him. Need a little more info to finalize judgement, but I can't imagine a scenario where this action was justified. I hope the facts come to light and that justice is served in the end. If that means that a bad cop loses his job.....c'est la vie. Shooting a police dog is considered shooting an officer. So what is shooting someone's companion and best friend considered?--------SS


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## Fowlmouth

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=30...earch-for-toddler&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

I agree SS.
Maybe it is legal to enter someone's property when there is an emergency situation, but to shoot their dog in their own backyard is some bullshi+.


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## Huge29

Any moron with a half of a brain would check to see why the gate is closed = good chance of a dog back there...


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## Springville Shooter

I'm doing my best to hold judgement until more facts are out, but my gut instinct is that this cop went Blue Streak on a nice family pet. I wish I could say that surprises me but I would be dishonest to say that I don't expect brutal, unbecoming behavior from law enforcement personnel. Any creative minds out there want to throw out a scenario where this could be justified? I'm all ears.------SS


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## longbow

"He was a member of my family," Kendall said. " He was just goofy and funny and he loved to play. He was a big cuddler, a big cuddler,

Besides being a great hunting dog, how can you describe a Weimer better than that?! I've never heard of an aggressive Weimaraner.


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## Airborne

Springville Shooter said:


> I'm doing my best to hold judgement until more facts are out, but my gut instinct is that this cop went Blue Streak on a nice family pet. I wish I could say that surprises me but I would be dishonest to say that I don't expect brutal, unbecoming behavior from law enforcement personnel. Any creative minds out there want to throw out a scenario where this could be justified? I'm all ears.------SS


The weimaraner breed is not a common breed, maybe the cop figured it was a minority dog. Just imagine what the response would have been had the dog been black--SWAT teams and flame throwers gentlemen.

I will be here all day


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## Critter

One problem with dogs that I found out years ago is that when they are on their turf it doesn't matter if they are the nicest breed of dog out there they can be dangerous. I have seen labs that would take your arm off if given the chance, and I have seen guard dogs that are as friendly as can be. It is a toss up when you are not around the dog and somebody is where they really shouldn't be. And this has always been in someones back yard that I had to get into for work when the owner was not at home. 

That being said there is no excuse for anyone killing a dog that is in a fenced in back yard in this type of situation. There are ways to deal with it and the officer dealt with it the wrong way.


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## izzydog

He's coming right at us!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RandomElk16

The lost child (I can't imagine leaving my 3 year old unattended) was in the house. Maybe search that before going next door to shoot some guys dog. 

"felt the dog was aggressive and going to attack him, and that's why he shot the animal"

He felt it... Well, I feel that you sir, are a jack***.


I may be passing judgement to soon. Reported- 4:30; Found before 5. Again, search the house FIRST. At MINIMUM, the state should pay for him to purchase a new dog and some grievance money. No joke. This was seemingly a responsible dog owner and dog, so for them to go into the dogs house and shoot him seems wrong by any means.


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## Fowlmouth

Probably a good thing it was a dog that surprised him and not the homeowner. Sounds like that cop is one of those trigger happy ones.


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## utahgolf

we need to recruit some tougher cops instead of these guys scared of their own shadows. The next door neighbors dog comes over to my house and barks at me and gets close to me but I'm not reaching for my pistol. can you imagine what would happen to me if I killed a dog that barked at me? I'd be in jail and facing a big lawsuit!! Cops are ordinary citizens who signed up for this job and a paycheck. I appreciate the position but there needs to be more accountability and transparency for these ordinary citizens who signed up to protect and SERVE the PUBLIC!


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## Trooper

I know not everyone is a dog person, but seriously, who shoots a Weimy. They're big dogs and all, but really, did this cop even try the old, "kick him in the face as hard as you can" trick? Or why not pull a taser? Gunplay seems a bit extreme.


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## .45

Trooper said:


> I know not everyone is a dog person, but seriously, who shoots a Weimy. They're big dogs and all, but really, did this cop even try the old, "kick him in the face as hard as you can" trick? Or why not pull a taser? Gunplay seems a bit extreme.


 Agreed! A retreat, a command, mace....anything but pull a firearm, only when you've run out of options. And maybe the officer did all that, who knows? Glad I wasn't the shooter.

Shoot a guys dog and leave the mess for the owner...unbelievable.


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## Springville Shooter

Been following this story close. Still no explanations or apologies. Not looking like reasonable justification is very likely. I feel it is our civic duty to raise hell if this is swept under the rug. Reality check is needed. What is wrong with those in positions of authority these days? Maybe absolute power really does corrupt absolutely.--------SS


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## Fowlmouth

Springville Shooter said:


> Been following this story close. Still no explanations or apologies. I doubt you will see one issued unless action from the property owner is taken. Not looking like reasonable justification is very likely. Nope! I feel it is our civic duty to raise hell if this is swept under the rug. More people need to. Reality check is needed. What is wrong with those in positions of authority these days? Maybe absolute power really does corrupt absolutely. Absolutely!--------SS


 *************


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## Vanilla

I am usually quick to defend law enforcement. Not here! No justification for this at all. Zero. 

If the PD goes into my backyard, without a warrant...mind you, and shoots my dog, I would NOT sit back and take it.


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## utahgolf

the fraternity of cops will back up his story I'm sure..... It will take a lawsuit to see any information disclosed. With all of the power we've given over to these ordinary citizens, we haven't demanded nearly enough transparency.


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## LostLouisianian

Make all the cops wear glasses - cams and record everything. This kind of crap will stop in a hurry then.


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## Skally

i would sue his ass off he had no right to be in the yard in the first place

guy comes in my back yard and shoots my family.... i might start shooting back


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## swbuckmaster

I feel cops seem to be going rogue all over the place. This one will get off and the situation will continue to get worse


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## OKEE

I think I have no Idea what it's like to go to work everyday as a cop. To be put in do or die situations daily. There has been to many dead cops in the news lately. Not knowing the whole story I'll save my judgment . Ask yourself if you was put in the same threating situation. Would we say Nice puppy! Nice puppy! Or would we draw, aim and fire. I think most of us would choose the latter.


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## utahgolf

OKEE said:


> I think I have no Idea what it's like to go to work everyday as a cop. To be put in do or die situations daily. There has been to many dead cops in the news lately. Not knowing the whole story I'll save my judgment . Ask yourself if you was put in the same threating situation. Would we say Nice puppy! Nice puppy! Or would we draw, aim and fire. I think most of us would choose the latter.


we're put in that same situation everyday.... a neighbors dog etc... only difference is one citizen can use a more liberal justification because of the badge he is wearing.. meanwhile us other citizens have to act reasonable and rational in these situations!!! With the justifications officers use for shooting dogs,,, I could have shot my neighbors golden retriever several times. the thing runs right up to me, barking and jumping like crazy and the thing hates me, but never have I ever thought about shooting it. and if I did, I'd be thrown in jail!


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## Loke

OKEE said:


> I think I have no Idea what it's like to go to work everyday as a cop. To be put in do or die situations daily. There has been to many dead cops in the news lately. Not knowing the whole story I'll save my judgment . Ask yourself if you was put in the same threating situation. Would we say Nice puppy! Nice puppy! Or would we draw, aim and fire. I think most of us would choose the latter.


Having served in law enforcement, corrections, and the military I think that I have an idea. The "do or die" situations are few and far between. Responding to every threat with deadly force as the first option is not how we were trained. Becoming familiar with possible threats, and formulation of a plan before hand was common practice. How do I respond to a large dog that is attacking? Most likely shoot it. How do we determine that the dog is in fact attacking? That is what is in question here.


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## Critter

OKEE said:


> I think I have no Idea what it's like to go to work everyday as a cop. To be put in do or die situations daily. There has been to many dead cops in the news lately. Not knowing the whole story I'll save my judgment . Ask yourself if you was put in the same threating situation. Would we say Nice puppy! Nice puppy! Or would we draw, aim and fire. I think most of us would choose the latter.


I was put in that situation a lot as a utility worker. First you would knock on the door of the back yard that you had to get into, if no one was at home you went into the back yard. There are some sneaky dogs out there that won't bark, they'll just come at you. You also learn how to give a quick loud command such as sit and it works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. Perhaps I lived life right and in 35 years of hopping fences and going into back yards I was only bitten once and that was at a apartment complex. You also just learn what to watch out for.

In my book that cop did a couple of things wrong that I know of. Perhaps he didn't check to see if anyone was at home, the other thing is that since he was looking for a lost child it wouldn't of hurt for him to shout out when he got to the fence and after he went in to see if there may of been a dog inside. Also the odds are even if the dog was barking at him he perhaps had time to back away, he certainly had time to draw his weapon and aim.


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## DallanC

Loke said:


> How do we determine that the dog is in fact attacking? That is what is in question here.


And its a great question. I think alot of people feel the dog at most was "defending", and rightfully so.

-DallanC


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## Czubas

It's hard to believe the police have the ability to go where they want, when they want, and destroy personal property at will. I thought there were Constitutional protections against that kind of behavior. Obviously, I need to go back to school.

It's a shame about the dog, my Weim is goofy and a part of our family as well. I would be crushed if we lost her to an incident such as this.


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## Springville Shooter

OKEE said:


> I think I have no Idea what it's like to go to work everyday as a cop. To be put in do or die situations daily. There has been to many dead cops in the news lately. Not knowing the whole story I'll save my judgment . Ask yourself if you was put in the same threating situation. Would we say Nice puppy! Nice puppy! Or would we draw, aim and fire. I think most of us would choose the latter.


I have spoken with three different LE friends about this issue and they all say no way. Stop making pie-in-the-sky excuses for bad behavior under the umbrella of the difficulty of being a cop. You have no idea what it takes to do my job correctly either but that doesn't give me the excuse to do it incorrectly. I wish that someone else had been in the situation because the dog would likely be alive. Face it, this guy screwed up. Unfortunately there is no place for cops who screw up. Adios before his itchy trigger finger results in the death of a person.

What would you do if you heard gunshots in your back yard? I would arm myself and investigate. Imagine the scenario if the owner suddenly showed up with a gun. Dirty Harry would probably empty his clip at the "perceived threat". One of two things happens; either he kills another innocent being, or he misses because he is a piss poor shot and is killed by a confused home owner who is responding to being shot at. See why this guy has to go?------------SS


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## utahgolf

Springville Shooter said:


> What would you do if you heard gunshots in your back yard? I would arm myself and investigate. Imagine the scenario if the owner suddenly showed up with a gun. Dirty Harry would probably empty his clip at the "perceived threat". One of two things happens; either he kills another innocent being, or he misses because he is a piss poor shot and is killed by a confused home owner who is responding to being shot at. See why this guy has to go?------------SS


This!!

Especially the cowboys that get a no knock warrant and break into the wrong house!!! People complain about Obama taking away freedoms... Go ahead and exercise your constitutional rights to a police officer the next time you get pulled over and let me know how well that works out for ya!!! We're at the absolute mercy of these ordinary citizens with badges. Pretty paralyzing feeling when I was treated like an absolute child at a routine traffic stop by a regular citizen who chose to be a police officer for a steady paycheck and a pension.


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## Fowlmouth

The crazy thing about this story is that it was a SLC officer that shot the dog, I would expect this kind of thing from the WVC police department, but C'mon SLC...:shock:

The report said there were 2 shots fired and 1 shot hit the dog in the head, where did the other bullet end up? 

Even if the dog was attacking, so what? The dog was in the owners secured yard on his private property.


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## Mojo1

I'm pretty sure that if it was my dog and that officer didn't at least get fired by the department, while I might have to wait a while, I would see him pay one way or the other. There's no room for people like him on the force.


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## utahgolf

Transparency and accountability at it's finest....cough cough BS..I wish they'd release the officers name.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30437978&ni...e-frustrated-by-lack-of-answers&s_cid=queue-2


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## utahgolf

I wonder how the cops would feel if I shot their K9 cause I felt threatened by it??? I bet I'd be in some serious trouble!


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## RandomElk16

utahgolf said:


> I wonder how the cops would feel if I shot their K9 cause I felt threatened by it??? I bet I'd be in some serious trouble!


Same charge as killing any officer of the law *I think*... A police K9 is seen as a police officer.


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## Springville Shooter

There is no transparency here....and it's not transparency when the dog owner has to hire a lawyer just to get some answers. Pathetic.--------SS


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## kailey29us

I have been a cop for a little over 11 years and I think it’s kind of funny how the media gets people in an uproar over something. I feel bad for this guy who had his dog shot but NOBODY knows the whole story. In my time on this job I have learned there are two sides to every story, the officers story will come out after the internal investigation same as always. If he was not justified in shooting the dog he will be held accountable.
There are bad cops out there but don't lump all of us together. There are bad clergymen out there in every religion, do you call every church member a child molester when one person in the church is convicted. Were would we be as sportsman if we were all lumped together with the idiot in the video last year of the guy in the back of the truck shooting the deer with an idiot buddy yelling “shoot him in the ass”. What if we were all classified with the poachers we are seeing in the news. 
I remember a few years ago a little girl went missing and she was found dead a few days later in the neighbors home, the media and the public in general were all angry because the cops questioned the guy but didn't search his house until they had enough probably cause to get a search warrant. The media had tons of coverage of the protest the family held and the crowd yelling at the police because they could have saved the little girl if they had only searched door to door. 
Would your opinion of this situation change if this little kid had been kidnapped or found dead instead of safe and sound. If that was your child missing what would you want the police to do?
As cops we know we can never do anything right, we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Everyone is quick to say the police should be treated the same as every citizen, and I agree. But when the police mess up they should be punished more because of the position give me a break.


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## utahgolf

I don't hate cops at all, my uncle was a cop and I have a friend at the academy.. ....But with such power one citizen has over another, there should be the utmost transparency and accountability. and too many times it takes a lawsuit or public outcry to get the whole story/transparency. and time and time again we see the fraternity of cops situation where it's pretty dang difficult to get the whole truth as well. I don't "hate" any cop, it's a thankless JOB that they SIGNED up for. With such a powerful position being held, and the freedoms we give up, we should demand much more of the position. If cops don't like the idea of the publics eye on them and being more transparent, then they should choose another career choice.


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## Fowlmouth

No, Police should not be punished any differently than anyone else. In the case of this dog I believe a citizen would most likely be charged with animal cruelty, and would probably have to pay for damages.

In general, I believe Police Officers should be held to a "higher standard" than citizens. They are in a position of trust. They should lead by example, and they should always carry themselves in a positive manner. This is part of the job. "To Serve and Protect" is not the case many times these days. Yes, it's easy for most of us to sit back and cast stones, but let's face it there are a few bad cops out there that shouldn't be on any force. Yes, cops go through P.O.S.T and get basic training and certifications. The problem is you can't teach common sense. A person has it or they don't. I agree that the media is the devil and will always hype a negative story for ratings. It's got to be tough for the "good cops" that respect and honor their positions when there are also bad ones creating a negative image for all of them.


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## kailey29us

Fowlmouth said:


> No, Police should not be punished any differently than anyone else. In the case of this dog I believe a citizen would most likely be charged with animal cruelty, and would probably have to pay for damages.
> 
> "To Serve and Protect" is not the case many times these days.


 Anyone, cop, citizen young or old can protect themselves from a dog they feel is a threat. They would not be charged with any crime. 
I understand the anger most people feel in this situation is because the officer was in the back yard to begin with. People have rights, homeowners have rights. But what if that was your kid? Would you think your missing child amounted to exigent circumstances for an officer to go into the back yard to look for your endangered child. 
How many thousands of calls for service did the police respond to on this same day but it seems ALL cops are judged by this one action. The MAJORITY of officers do set a positive example.
When an officer is arrested for DUI he/she pays the price. The deputy in Washington County who was arrested is going through the court process now. My understanding is this was a first offense so should he pay a higher fine, do more jail time than any other citizen of this state just because he was an officer at the time?


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## Fowlmouth

kailey29us said:


> Anyone, cop, citizen young or old can protect themselves from a dog they feel is a threat. They would not be charged with any crime. If I jumped in someone's private backyard and shot their dog, yes I would be charged. Even if the dog was a threat, I shouldn't have been there.
> I understand the anger most people feel in this situation is because the officer was in the back yard to begin with. People have rights, homeowners have rights. But what if that was your kid? Would you think your missing child amounted to exigent circumstances for an officer to go into the back yard to look for your endangered child.
> How many thousands of calls for service did the police respond to on this same day but it seems ALL cops are judged by this one action. The MAJORITY of officers do set a positive example. I agree
> When an officer is arrested for DUI he/she pays the price. The deputy in Washington County who was arrested is going through the court process now. My understanding is this was a first offense so should he pay a higher fine, do more jail time than any other citizen of this state just because he was an officer at the time?


 No, he should not pay a higher fine or do more jail time, but he sure as hell should lose his job if he hasn't already. This officer is out arresting citizens for DUI and then he turns around and does the same thing. Double standard, right? This is what I mean when I say cops should be held to a higher standard. Should a citizen that does the same thing lose their job? Maybe, if they were in company vehicle, on the clock or miss work because of it. 
I guess everyone has their own definition of a "dirty cop" my definition is a cop that arrests citizens for a crime, but that same cop does the same things. 
*********************


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## kailey29us

Fowlmouth said:


> No, he should not pay a higher fine or do more jail time, but he sure as hell should lose his job if he hasn't already. This officer is out arresting citizens for DUI and then he turns around and does the same thing. Double standard, right? This is what I mean when I say cops should be held to a higher standard. Should a citizen that does the same thing lose their job? Maybe, if they were in company vehicle, on the clock or miss work because of it.
> I guess everyone has their own definition of a "dirty cop" my definition is a cop that arrests citizens for a crime, but that same cop does the same things.
> *********************


 So you don't think the officer had the exigent circumstances to be in the back yard? What would qualify as an exigent circumstance for an officer to enter someones backyard? What if that was your kid? 
Yes the officer arrested for DUI resigned and he should have. I guess I am a dirty cop in your eyes because I wrote a speeding ticket today and I will probably speed at some point in the future. 
I see a dirty cop as one who takes money or other kickbacks to look the other way. One who arrests a drug dealer or user and then uses or sells some of the drugs seized, you know stuff like that. The example of the officer who was arrested for DUI is not dirty, he is a person who made a mistake and will pay for it like anyone else or he may get off on a technical issue like so many others.


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## Fowlmouth

kailey29us said:


> So you don't think the officer had the exigent circumstances to be in the back yard? Heck yes I think he had the right to be there, but I don't think he had the right to shoot the dog. What would qualify as an exigent circumstance for an officer to enter someones backyard? What if that was your kid?
> Yes the officer arrested for DUI resigned and he should have. I guess I am a dirty cop in your eyes because I wrote a speeding ticket today and I will probably speed at some point in the future. The difference is, if you get pulled over for speeding you just show your badge and off you go. If I speed I show my drivers license, proof of insurance and I still get a ticket.
> I see a dirty cop as one who takes money or other kickbacks to look the other way. One who arrests a drug dealer or user and then uses or sells some of the drugs seized, you know stuff like that. I agree... The example of the officer who was arrested for DUI is not dirty, he is a person who made a mistake and will pay for it like anyone else or he may get off on a technical issue like so many others.


 Again, he should have never made this mistake, he should hold himself to a higher standard....Yes I understand people are people and none of us are perfect.


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## Mr Muleskinner

Not knowing exactly how it went down it is hard to comment if the officer responded correctly. I know that Weimaraners are are excellent all around dogs. With that they can be specifically trained as watch and guard dog and can be very aggressive. A stranger walking into the back yard can easily be enough to provoke a dog into protection mode. Especially a Weimaraner. I would hope that the officer did what he believed was prudent. It is unfortunate that the pet was lost for sure.

I agree that police officers should be held to higher standard than Joe Public. I also think that they should set an example. Shouldn't speed. Shouldn't drink and drive or knowingly break any laws for that matter. If they do, it doesn't make them a dirty cop in my mind per se but it certainly makes them a hypocrite. Kailey if you can write a ticket for speeding, I personally don't know how you could take the liberty of speeding yourself with a clear conscience. You took an Oath if I am not mistaken.

The cop that gets busted for a DUI may not be a "dirty cop" but he sure isn't somebody that should be enforcing laws that he is not capable of following.

*"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this State, and that I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity."*

*support, obey and defend* are key words as is *fidelity*


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## kailey29us

Fowlmouth said:


> Again, he should have never made this mistake, he should hold himself to a higher standard....Yes I understand people are people and none of us are perfect.


If he had the right to be there does he not have the right to defend himself from an aggressive dog? I guess what it comes down to is I am assuming the officers story is correct(the dog was a threat) and you are assuming the dog owners story is correct(the dog was harmless). Neither of us were there at the time but I am confident the truth will come out. And like I said before if the officer was wrong he will be held accountable just like anyone else.

Again don't lump all cops together, I have NEVER shown my badge when I have been stopped, there are some who do I DO NOT. I have written cops tickets even after they flashed their badge. Some cops will not write traffic tickets to other cops. If I deserve a ticket then I will take it.

I don't really want to argue about this all day long, I have given my .02 and will leave it alone. We have different points of view, but all is well.


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## Mr Muleskinner

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge1,
my integrity, my character, 
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution2
my community3 and the agency I serve. 
Before any officer takes the Law Enforcement Oath of Honor, it is important that he/she understands what it means. An oath is a solemn pledge someone makes when he/she sincerely intends to do what he/she says.
*Honor* means that one's word is given as a guarantee.
*Betray* is defined as breaking faith with the public trust.
*Badge* is the symbol of your office.
*Integrity* is being the same person in both private and public life.
*Character* means the qualities that distinguish an individual.
*Public trust* is a charge of duty imposed in faith toward those you serve.
*Courage* is having the strength to withstand unethical pressure, fear or danger.
*Accountability* means that you are answerable and responsible to your oath of office.
*Community* is the jurisdiction and citizens served.


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## Fowlmouth

kailey29us said:


> If he had the right to be there does he not have the right to defend himself from an aggressive dog? It's a tough question. From what I gather from the information that has been reported, under the circumstances I don't think it was justified. If the officer had some bite marks maybe I would feel differently. I guess what it comes down to is I am assuming the officers story is correct(the dog was a threat) and you are assuming the dog owners story is correct(the dog was harmless). Neither of us were there at the time but I am confident the truth will come out. I hope so too. And like I said before if the officer was wrong he will be held accountable just like anyone else.
> 
> Again don't lump all cops together, I have NEVER shown my badge when I have been stopped, there are some who do I DO NOT. I have written cops tickets even after they flashed their badge. Some cops will not write traffic tickets to other cops. If I deserve a ticket then I will take it.
> 
> I don't really want to argue about this all day long, I have given my .02 and will leave it alone. We have different points of view, but all is well.  It is actually good to hear some other point of views. Be safe out there!


********************


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## Mr Muleskinner

Thanks for your service as well Kailey


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## gdog

If someone unknown to my dogs, showed up in my fenced backyard by themselves....there's a good chance they may get a unfavorable response to their presence depending on their posturing/behavior. I'd never go into someone's yard with a dog I didn't know. A little common sense could go a long ways here. Hell my Questar Gas and Rocky Mnt Power service people have enough common sense to check if a dogs in the yard before entering....and they don't carry a gun for a living.....

Don't cops carry pepper spray?


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## Czubas

While I understand the emotional response to a missing child, in my mind I cannot justify the surrender of the rights of all citizens within a police established radius. Right or wrong, this incident reminds me of the police response to the Boston bombing. The wholesale surrender of rights of a large number of citizens in response to a crisis. In my mind its overreach. I'm thankful for the police and the job they do, but I question how much authority we as citizens have given them to enforce our laws.


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## RandomElk16

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=30490406&nid=481

Regardless of our opinions, I don't believe threatening the officers life is warranted.


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## Skally

This is a stupid argument... the cop screwed up and should be fired... if a civilian screws up this badly at their job they are shown the door no second chances


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## koltraynor

It's a dog not a person. He made a mistake. Suspend him and pay restitution. This uproar is crazy. People don't get this upset when people die. Plus looks like the dog wasn't in his kennel as the owner stated. If he was threatened he was justified. He had every right to go into the yard looking for that kid.


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## Skally

koltraynor said:


> It's a dog not a person. He made a mistake. Suspend him and pay restitution. This uproar is crazy. People don't get this upset when people die. Plus looks like the dog wasn't in his kennel as the owner stated. If he was threatened he was justified. He had every right to go into the yard looking for that kid.


thank god it wasn't a person... the paranoid trigger happy cop probably would have shot them too. Plenty of people have been fired for a lot less


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## Fowlmouth

koltraynor said:


> It's a dog not a person. He made a mistake. Suspend him and pay restitution. This uproar is crazy. People don't get this upset when people die. Plus looks like the dog wasn't in his kennel as the owner stated. If he was threatened he was justified. He had every right to go into the yard looking for that kid.


 The dog getting shot was terrible, no doubt. I don't think it is the main reason most people are so upset. I believe the uproar stems more from the cop entering a private secure domain that was a safe haven for the owners and the dog. While the cop was in his right to search for the girl, he was not in his right to destroy personal property on private property.........You are correct though when you say "people don't get this upset when people die" It's crazy huh?
Dogs are considered property, so I would be surprised if anything more than paying for the cost of the dog will happen. 
As a dog owner myself I would be very upset if this happened to me. Mostly because of the amount of time I have invested in training. How would you be compensated for the hundreds of hours of time spent with a dog?


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## koltraynor

I would be upset too. But when someone could be in danger like a lost child or chasing a violent felon the private property rights go out the window. Especially if it could be time sensitive. Even though he was on private property he felt threatened. I'm sure the dog was just protecting it's space like all good dogs do. But as long as he was there lawfully, which he was according to state And federal law he didn't break the law. Bad judgment for using deadly force? Absolutely. He could have maced the dog easily. But the uproar and death threats, and calling for him to be fired is just nuts.


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## Skally

koltraynor said:


> I would be upset too. But when someone could be in danger like a lost child or chasing a violent felon the private property rights go out the window. Especially if it could be time sensitive. Even though he was on private property he felt threatened. I'm sure the dog was just protecting it's space like all good dogs do. But as long as he was there lawfully, which he was according to state And federal law he didn't break the law. Bad judgment for using deadly force? Absolutely. He could have maced the dog easily. But the uproar and death threats, and calling for him to be fired is just nuts.


the child was never in any danger... child was found in the home moments after searching. The only living thing in danger was the dog. i agree death threats are crazy. but i feel he should be fired. He screwed up big time, people get fired for screwing up all the time


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## rlpenn

Skally said:


> the child was never in any danger... child was found in the home moments after searching. The only living thing in danger was the dog. i agree death threats are crazy. but i feel he should be fired. He screwed up big time, people get fired for screwing up all the time


The SL Trib reported that he little boy was not found for 1.5 hours after the search began, in a cardboard box under some blankets. That's a long long time for a child to be missing.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58123573-78/officer-dog-burbank-police.html.csp


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## Bax*

I don't think this story should have been blown up like it did. Cops don't go to work planning to shoot a dog and since not one of us SAW the situation unfold, we have to conclude that the officer felt threatened enough to use the force he did. End of story. 

Sure it's unfortunate and I would be so sad if one of my dogs lost their life in this situation. And if people really wanna help, raise some money and buy the poor guy a new dog. 

But unless we were there, I think we can't cast a stone. If he was in the wrong, the investigation will prove it. 

Good grief people. Let's now rant about how unfairly the cougar was treated at Jordan Commons.


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## koltraynor

Skally said:


> the child was never in any danger... child was found in the home moments after searching. The only living thing in danger was the dog. i agree death threats are crazy. but i feel he should be fired. He screwed up big time, people get fired for screwing up all the time


We know that now. The officer didn't at the time. If that was your kid you would want heaven and earth moved.


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## rlpenn

Those of you who think the detective was wrong to enter the yard, what do you think law enforcement should be doing instead, to find the lost children in neighborhoods like this one? Every yard is fenced in. It is the middle of the day, everyone is at work. If they can't look in anyone's backyard, they have no where to look!


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## utahgolf

I think most are upset at the lack of common sense and the liberal "my life is in danger" justifications used for deadly force... A badge doesn't give you common sense and people are fired for a the lack there of... How many utility workers out there could be shooting aggressive dogs?? They enter peoples yards all the time! I wonder if utility workers use certain training before and during when dealing with animals and entering peoples yards?? HMMMM :shock::shock:


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## Critter

I was a utility worker for 35 years and in those years I found all kinds of dogs in backyards. From those that would take your arm off to those that wouldn't leave you alone just for some attention. From mean labs, and golden retrievers to nice shepherds and rotwilers. You just never knew what kind of dog was behind that gate. As for training, there was none other than common sense. knock on the door first, then if nobody was at home go to the fence or gate and whistle or holler for the dog and then if you didn't get a reply be ready at a moments notice to jump that fence whether it is 2' or 20' away no matter how high it was. In the last few years of my career they gave us electronic dog repellents but they stated that they may not work on a overly aggressive dog. When bear spray came out I purchased some just for dogs but never did have to use it. Usually when I went into a back yard and found a aggressive dog I would usually just yell at it to go sit down and 90% of the time it did just that.

The dogs that I was mostly scared of were the ankle biters. They would come out of nowhere, nip you and then head back out of sight. I much rathered taking on a 100lb dog than those little ones. And in those 35 years I was bitten twice. Once by a german short haired while its owner was telling me that he wouldn't bite, and once by a rug mop lap dog that came out of a apartment, nailed me and then disappeared back into the apartment. 

As for this incident I personally think that there would of been other ways to take care of the situation, but then I wasn't there and neither were any of the rest of us.


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## Springville Shooter

I think most people are protesting because of the ongoing trend of Police actions and the lack of accountability to the public. Myself and many who I talk to feel that the Police have forgotten who they are accountable to. Unfortunately there is enough political padding between the public and the officers that the notion that what the public thinks or expects doesn't matter. I would guess that many of us feel that we will never get the real story and that Law Enforcement operates under that assumption. 

Imagine how this story would be if it was the lost child's father who had shot the dog. The same officer who did shoot the dog would have most likely arrested him immediately and left him to struggle through a defense to prove his innocence.

To any Law Enforcement who might read this; Please realize that by the actions of your group as a whole that you are losing the general trust and unquestioning support of many folks, even those like myself who have historically always unquestioningly supported Law Enforcement. 

Barring any further enlightenment brought about in the investigation, using the facts that we currently have, the officer was way out of bounds in my opinion. We cannot afford to have folks in uniform who even tiptoe outside the lines that they enforce. This guy needs to be sent to the unemployment office to seek a new career. 

If the department wants to save face and save this guys career, they'd better start being very forthcoming as to why the officer chose to forego all the other many tools at his immediate disposal and employed lethal force in a situation that was very unlikely to ever escalate into a life threatening situation for him or anyone else. Problem is, they don't think that we as the public are worthy of honest answers or that they are in any way accountable to us.---------SS


----------



## rlpenn

Springville Shooter said:


> I think most people are protesting because of the ongoing trend of Police actions and the lack of accountability to the public. Myself and many who I talk to feel that the Police have forgotten who they are accountable to. Unfortunately there is enough political padding between the public and the officers that the notion that what the public thinks or expects doesn't matter. I would guess that many of us feel that we will never get the real story and that Law Enforcement operates under that assumption.
> 
> Imagine how this story would be if it was the lost child's father who had shot the dog. The same officer who did shoot the dog would have most likely arrested him immediately and left him to struggle through a defense to prove his innocence.
> 
> To any Law Enforcement who might read this; Please realize that by the actions of your group as a whole that you are losing the general trust and unquestioning support of many folks, even those like myself who have historically always unquestioningly supported Law Enforcement.
> 
> Barring any further enlightenment brought about in the investigation, using the facts that we currently have, the officer was way out of bounds in my opinion. We cannot afford to have folks in uniform who even tiptoe outside the lines that they enforce. This guy needs to be sent to the unemployment office to seek a new career.
> 
> If the department wants to save face and save this guys career, they'd better start being very forthcoming as to why *the officer chose to forego all the other many tools at his immediate disposal* and employed lethal force in a situation that was very unlikely to ever escalate into a life threatening situation for him or anyone else. Problem is, they don't think that we as the public are worthy of honest answers or that they are in any way accountable to us.---------SS


I have thought this as well.

Food for thought. We are all assuming that the first response of the detective was to shoot the dog. But I don't think we have been told why the dog seemed threatening

Is it possible that the detective tried other means and resorted to shooting the dog when those means failed?

For all we know, the detective was bitten by the dog. We just don't know.


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## Springville Shooter

^^^^^^^Exactly!!^^^^^^^ we are given few facts because those in authority don't deem it necessary to be accountable to the public who are expected to blindly "trust" or at least not question Law Enforcement. We are left to assume that none of the event you mention happened because they aren't telling us that they did.The Department is likely acting this way because their boy marched into a private yard, was annoyed by a barking dog, and blew its head off. This is what I will believe until I am convinced otherwise. Nothing else makes sense. 

I think that it's funny how they are using Trolley Square to divert attention from the real incident. By their logic, if a teacher does their job well for 25 years, then molests a child that we should somehow overlook the present because of the past. C'mon Chief. Have some respect for the public who employs you. Stick to the facts whether you like them or not.-----SS


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## massmanute

A few thoughts:

First. In my view it is unlikely that an internal investigation by the police will be thorough and unbiased. Generally speaking, the police consider themselves to be a fraternity, and they tend to close ranks when they feel threatened. It is likely that this will happen here, with the result that the officer will be given every possible benefit of a doubt at every turn, or worse. It also seems unlikely that the public will ever be informed of the full range of evidence about the event.

Second: What do the neighbors say about this particular dog? Did the dog have a history of aggressiveness? If not it is some evidence against the reasonableness of the officer's action, though not definitive evidence.

Third: News reports say there were two bullets fired. One hit the dog. Where is the other bullet? Attempts should be made to locate the bullet, perhaps using a metal detector. Most likely the bullet is embedded in the lawn. The path of the bullet should then be determined by finding the location and angle of the track. From that it should be possible to estimate the distance between the dog and the officer when that bullet was fired. This will provide some evidence of the degree to which the officer might have been under attach from the dog.

Fourth: Admittedly we don't know the details of the event (partly because the police have not released full details from their investigation), but from what we know it appears that the office used his firearm as a first resort rather than a last resort. If so, this is not good.


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## Fowlmouth

massmanute said:


> A few thoughts:
> Third: News reports say there were two bullets fired. One hit the dog. Where is the other bullet? could be in the yard, could be in the fence, could be in the house and it could have had the potential to injure someone. Attempts should be made to locate the bullet, perhaps using a metal detector. Most likely the bullet is embedded in the lawn. The path of the bullet should then be determined by finding the location and angle of the track. From that it should be possible to estimate the distance between the dog and the officer when that bullet was fired. This will provide some evidence of the degree to which the officer might have been under attach from the dog. It sounds like shots were fired from police the other day when the cougar was running around in Sandy. I wonder how threatened they felt from a cougar that was running away? Some of these guys are some trigger happy folks people. Look how many shooting incidents over the last couple of years have taken place, and not just animals but humans too. There have been more than a few cases recently where deadly force is/was questioned.
> 
> Fourth: Admittedly we don't know the details of the event (partly because the police have not released full details from their investigation), but from what we know it appears that the office used his firearm as a first resort rather than a last resort. If so, this is not good.


 I know the cop was on private property at a private residence. Yes, he has the right to be there looking for a missing child. He doesn't have the right to destroy private property. 
Are all cops bad? NO Are all cops good? NO 
But while we are on the subject. Here is another of Utah's finest....
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30505510&ni...lice-officer-facing-dui-resigns&s_cid=queue-2
******************************************


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## Dunkem

We are all quick to judge,not knowing what exactly went down.Not saying he was right,but not saying he was wrong either,glad I did not have to make that decision whether to use deadly force or not.I for one would not like to have their job.There are good and bad in all of us folks.


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## rlpenn

Springville Shooter said:


> ^^^^^^^Exactly!!^^^^^^^ we are given few facts because those in authority don't deem it necessary to be accountable to the public who are expected to blindly "trust" or at least not question Law Enforcement. We are left to assume that none of the event you mention happened because they aren't telling us that they did.The Department is likely acting this way because their boy marched into a private yard, was annoyed by a barking dog, and blew its head off. This is what I will believe until I am convinced otherwise. Nothing else makes sense.
> 
> I think that it's funny how they are using Trolley Square to divert attention from the real incident. By their logic, if a teacher does their job well for 25 years, then molests a child that we should somehow overlook the present because of the past. C'mon Chief. Have some respect for the public who employs you. Stick to the facts whether you like them or not.-----SS


I feel the opposite---I'm going to wait for their investigation to be completed before I judge. I don't know why they need a whole month, but I will give them the opportunity to do their job.

I have met the detective that shot the dog, as he is the police rep at community council meetings around here. He made a good impression on me, for now I am going to give him benefit of the doubt.


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## GBell

My.02

Once the cop unlatched the gate and made entry, everything
That followed was 100% on him. Not the dog. As a cop you
Are expected to be prepared to respond to the situations you 
Put yourself into. If his preparation included his. 40 as his only defense
Against a dog, he was unprepared and negligent. 

There were probably dozens of other backyards searched that day by other
Cops that did it without killing a dog or destroying
Other secured private property. 

So that brings us to the question, do you want this idiot, negligent cop
Patrolling or responding in your neighborhood. For me no fricken way. 

He needs to be fired and his POST certification revoked.


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## massmanute

rlpenn said:


> ---I'm going to wait for their investigation to be completed before I judge...


Good luck with that.

If you want a thorough and unbiased investigation it is, generally speaking, poor policy for an agency to investigate itself or to investigate one of their own. I would be more comfortable with an independent investigation.

In this particular case I am expecting a whitewash job, and the truth will likely never be known by either the dog owner or the public.


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## GBell

Well the benchmark for "internal investigations"
Was pretty well set with Deputy Chief Findlay. 

He was placed on "paid leave" for over six months
So he could retire with his pension.


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## koltraynor

GBell said:


> My.02
> 
> Once the cop unlatched the gate and made entry, everything
> That followed was 100% on him. Not the dog. As a cop you
> Are expected to be prepared to respond to the situations you
> Put yourself into. If his preparation included his. 40 as his only defense
> Against a dog, he was unprepared and negligent.
> 
> There were probably dozens of other backyards searched that day by other
> Cops that did it without killing a dog or destroying
> Other secured private property.
> 
> So that brings us to the question, do you want this idiot, negligent cop
> Patrolling or responding in your neighborhood. For me no fricken way.
> 
> He needs to be fired and his POST certification revoked.


Yes I do want him patrolling my neighborhood. He saved numerous lives at Trolley square. Again we talking about a dog. Not a person. I laugh at the people who say it's like shooting their child. What a joke. Have any of you lost a child? I have. And a dog. Believe me there is a difference.


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## GBell

No we are not talking about just a dog. We
Are talking about an officer that doesn't have
The mental capacity to have a badge and gun. 

He took full responsibility when he chose to enter
That closed secure yard and he was unprepared to
Deal with the circumstances. 

What happens next time he makes a bad decision
He isn't prepared for and someBODY pays the price?

The dog outsmarted him and he killed it. Simple as that.


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## Loke

I've been wondering, and maybe some one who knows the area can answer. If the gate was closed and latched, how likely would it be for a three year old to enter the yard? Fences tend to work both ways.


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## RichardClarke

I'm having a hard time understanding the significance of this officer's actions at Trolley Square in the context of what happened in the year 2014. Does his alleged "heroic" actions over seven years ago give him a blank check now?


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## Springville Shooter

^^^touché^^^^^ 
Hey Koltraynor.... Be careful in using an honorable past to excuse dishonorable actions. That's a slippery slope. We are all responsible for each individual choice we make. Seems some are held more responsible than others. I repeat my sentiment that this would have been a whole different story if it had been the boys father who had entered the yard looking for the boy And shot the dog. ------SS


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## rlpenn

Loke said:


> I've been wondering, and maybe some one who knows the area can answer. If the gate was closed and latched, how likely would it be for a three year old to enter the yard? Fences tend to work both ways.


Easy! I can think of many scenarios in which a small child could get into a fenced yard around here. None of them involve the child opening and closing the gate himself.

I have firewood stacked up against my fence, and my fence is my neighbor's fence. It would be very easy for a toddler enter my neighbor's yard by climbing up the stack of firewood on my side of the fence. Kids are crafty that way, for example they can crawl up and down the stairs before they could even walk.

Or maybe someone left the gate open, a child could wander in. I've had this happen a lot---someone enters my yard and doesn't close the gate carefully when they leave.

Or maybe a bad guy tossed the child's corpse in the back yard.

Or...


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## GBell

As I've wondered, how many other yards were searched that day?
No other dogs were killed or property destroyed. Which means what
I've said all along. This one specific idiot cop put himself in a situation
He had no business being in and couldn't deal with. 

Hopefully something positive will come of all this, the cop should resign
And never have a gun and badge in his possession ever again and
You can bet your rear end it will be a good long while before any cop
Thinks grab the gun when dealing with dogs.


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## Bax*

Well it seems some of you have already tried and convicted this cop without all of the evidence. 

Well done you bunch of commies!


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## Springville Shooter

Nope, we're just waiting for the details to come out and making observations based on what they have fed us. Without public outcry and constant pressure there would never even have been an investigation into this incident. The public demanding answers of public servants is how the system works. Unfortunately, asking nice gets you nowhere. I make all my assumptions based on the info we have and reserve the right to change my mind if better info comes out. History suggests that info is not withheld when it overwhelmingly supports the actions of the officer. Just sayin'. 

As far as being commies; questioning authority, assembling, and free speech are about as un-commie as it gets. Don't forget that we are the bosses when it comes to public servants. They are beholden to us. In this case they owe us an explanation. We may or may not get one. The statement made by the chief tells me that he already has his mind made up. ------SS


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## birdboy

Springville Shooter said:


> Nope, we're just waiting for the details to come out and making observations based on what they have fed us.


 Yet you have carried on for 8 pages, the investigation is on going. They will release the findings when the investigation is completed. The same way they do with other cases. At this point for 8 pages you have crucified the officer when you know two facts.

1) A dog was shot by a officer
2) Dog was in the back yard

That is all we know at this time. To make it worse, you got your facts from the media who are always correct with the stories they tell. This story is big, SLCPD will release the report when they are done. It would be irresponsible for them to release details if the investigation is not complete.

Some Constitutional rights are going to come into play here....

1st 4th Amendment, search and seizure laws. My take I think the Officer is good. Having said that I was not there, if he was in the wrong then he will be disciplined.

2) The 5th Amendment... Actually is going to apply to both the Dog/ home owner as well as the Officer in this case.

5th Amendment talks about Eminent Domain meaning a if the Government takes property from a citizen, the Government has to pay up. (Salt Lake City will be paying up over this big time, but will most likely stipulate that the amount is confidential)

5th Amendment also talks about Due Process. The Officer will and Should be offered his Due Process to find all the facts prior to any judgment being handed down upon him.

On a personal note: I find it extremely distasteful the way that you are saying how the Officer would act in one situation or another. You do not have any idea who this Officer is or what he is like except from what you have heard from the media and online. Saying he would empty a entire magazine, blow a head off etc. You do not know this guy at all. The next time you are walking on water let us know so we can watch. If on the other hand you are unable to walk on water, how about getting the facts prior to letting anymore filth spill out of your mouth.


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## utahgolf

Like it was said before, if there wasn't public outcry, this would have been swept under the rug. It really makes you think what has gone on in departments when there wasn't social media like there is now. I wonder how many things have been swept under. I don't have any issues with cops, But when we surrender certain rights to ordinary citizens, we must demand the most transparent and accountable system possible. I think we can all agree that's not the case with most police departments around the country. and with more transparency and accountability, it will weed out the officers who had no business being in that position and it will also make it a less desirable position for those who don't belong starting down that career choice either.


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## Fowlmouth

birdboy said:


> 5th Amendment talks about Eminent Domain meaning a if the Government takes property from a citizen, the Government has to pay up. (Salt Lake City will be paying up over this big time, but will most likely stipulate that the amount is confidential)


 This is the part that will be interesting. Dogs are considered property correct? I don't how you put a value on property other than what you paid for it, or what the current value is. It would be surprising if the cop is found to be negligent anything more than the cost of a new dog will be awarded. Maybe the owner will try to get emotional damages or something like that, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## RichardClarke

Bird dog
Let me help you out here. There are a few other facts you failed to mentioned. First off the toddler was found safe in his home virtually within minutes of the search starting. This begs the question of what were cops doing roaming around people's private property when within minutes of searching the toddler's home he was found safe. The cops had virtually no evidence or reason to believe the child ever left his own residence. Secondly, feel free to remember this is an "internal investigation". Let me help you out with that one. This means cops will be investigating a fellow cop. This is not an external or independent investigation. Let's fast forward a bit to save everyone some time. The SLC police department will issue a report of their "findings". The report will say the officer was entirely justified to kill this dog. They will also say they are saddened by what happened. End of story. The truth will be somewhere in the middle. It will not be uncovered by the SLC police department conducting an internal investigation of one of their own. The guy who had his dog killed needs to do two things here; hire an attorney and pray Sim Gill gets involved.


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## GBell

Wether I was there or not, the outcome of this interaction was a failure. 
Not one of you can debate that fact. 

I can also GUARANFRICKENTEE every one of you that I would
Not have killed this dog. Why? It sure as heck ain't because I'm what
Anyone would consider a physical specimen or Rambo. But I am smarter
Than a freaking dog.


----------



## swbuckmaster

^^Amen!


----------



## birdboy

RichardClarke said:


> Bird dog
> Let me help you out here. There are a few other facts you failed to mentioned. First off the toddler was found safe in his home virtually within minutes of the search starting.


 So you were there and involved in the search? That is really the only way you would know this as a fact.

This is a crappy situation all around I agree. Like I said if the officer was at fault and violated policy and laws, then deal with it. Nobody wanted any of this to happen, but it did. Best to investigate it, with cool, calm heads and then move forward with what ever findings they have.


----------



## Critter

GBell said:


> Wether I was there or not, the outcome of this interaction was a failure.
> Not one of you can debate that fact.
> 
> I can also GUARANFRICKENTEE every one of you that I would
> Not have killed this dog. Why? It sure as heck ain't because I'm what
> Anyone would consider a physical specimen or Rambo. But I am smarter
> Than a freaking dog.


I will agree with you that what happened was a failure but I would like to know how you could guarantee that the outcome would of been different had it been you with a pistol on your hip and some mace in your belt.

That is one of the problems with Monday morning quarterbacking, you were not there and have no idea of what really happened.


----------



## GBell

Good question Critter. 

I would have figured out if there was a dog there
To begin with. If I see dog, I call the owner and have
A discussion. Is the dog aggressive, is the dog all bark
And no bite and how soon can you be here. 

Say I go back there and the dog surprises me and actually
Attacks. Is it the dogs fault or is it my fault?
Now since it is 100% my fault, which it is do I have
The character to not pull the trigger. You bet I do. The
Dog may get a boot in the face, or get pistol whipped
But it's still on me. 

If as a cop you haven't considered this possibility
Ahead of time you are not doing your job.


----------



## Springville Shooter

Critter said:


> you were not there and have no idea of what really happened.


This exactly sums up my point.....and we will never know what really happened unless people keep after it, keep the issue hot, and don't let the PD sweep it under the rug which I'm sure they would love to do.

I think it's funny how idiots ridicule me for doing the reciprocal of what the good chief did. He chooses to automatically side with the officer(expected) and I choose to be skeptical. As far as getting info from the media, I ask where the heck else am I supposed to get it from? All the cops that I talk to feel the same way as I do and they don't have any more info than has been released by the media via statements from the chief and the dog owner which are both reliable sources in my opinion.

I really hope that it can be proven that the officer acted in good faith. At this point I don't see how that is possible. And no, I'm not content to just sit back and swallow whatever they want to feed me. When you barge into someone's back yard and shoot their dog, you are going to have to explain yourself......even if you are a model citizen, or the best cop, or someone's bishop. Sorry if that reality hurts your tender feelers.....such filth and all. --------SS


----------



## Critter

GBell said:


> Good question Critter.
> 
> I would have figured out if there was a dog there
> To begin with. If I see dog, I call the owner and have
> A discussion. Is the dog aggressive, is the dog all bark
> And no bite and how soon can you be here.
> 
> Say I go back there and the dog surprises me and actually
> Attacks. Is it the dogs fault or is it my fault?
> Now since it is 100% my fault, which it is do I have
> The character to not pull the trigger. You bet I do. The
> Dog may get a boot in the face, or get pistol whipped
> But it's still on me.
> 
> If as a cop you haven't considered this possibility
> Ahead of time you are not doing your job.


I have found that owners lie all the time about their dogs. As I mentioned in a previous post one of the times that I was bitten was while I was talking to the owner of a dog on a leash and she had just told me that her dog didn't bite. I have even found dogs that are as submissive as all get out when their owners are around but if they are alone you had better look out. I also mentioned that what I found is that the majority of dogs will back off if you give it a very loud firm command weather the owners are there or not, but then there is that one case in a 1000. That is the problem with dogs, you really never know what is going to happen until it happens.

I do agree that perhaps the cop did the first thing that came into his mind and that was to shoot first and ask questions later. Perhaps that was the right thing to do and then again perhaps it wasn't.

I do know that one time I was about to use a $10,000 meter as a club on a shepard until he backed off. I then went to my truck and got a pickax handle and when he came back up to me I figured that I was going to hit him twice. The first time would of knocked him out and the second blow would of broken his neck or crushed his skull. And this was on public property.

You just never know what is going to happen


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## RichardClarke

I became skeptical of this when first the SL police dept. tried to shield the identity of the officer. I became even more skeptical when, after the officer's name was leaked, that the police chief's first line of defense was 'easy on this cop he was a hero seven years ago'. 
It is grasping for straws when someone has to point to past glories to cover up or shield a current misdeed. Our history is full of fallen angels and hero's that at one time did a few things right then went to the dark side for whatever reason. My guess is this Trolley Square hero felt like he had a little more capital or leeway and felt he would be given the benefit of the doubt in a scenario such as this. As SS points out that is why it is essential for this to be kept on the front burner and in independent review needs to be conducted.


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## Springville Shooter

Let me also be clear that right, wrong, or indifferent, I would never put the life of a dog before a person. If the officer was truly in danger, even if it was due to his own negligence, then I'm glad that he took the action to keep himself safe. 

Under investigation, unemployed, and embarrassed are all better than dead. Whatever happened(s)I am glad the the officer is safe. Please don't mistake my position of questioning to be in any way aligned with those who have spoken ill will against the officer. I am simply questioning the situation and wanting real answers followed by appropriate corrective action by the department.-------SS


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## koltraynor

RichardClarke said:


> Bird dog
> Let me help you out here. There are a few other facts you failed to mentioned. First off the toddler was found safe in his home virtually within minutes of the search starting. This begs the question of what were cops doing roaming around people's private property when within minutes of searching the toddler's home he was found safe. The cops had virtually no evidence or reason to believe the child ever left his own residence. Secondly, feel free to remember this is an "internal investigation". Let me help you out with that one. This means cops will be investigating a fellow cop. This is not an external or independent investigation. Let's fast forward a bit to save everyone some time. The SLC police department will issue a report of their "findings". The report will say the officer was entirely justified to kill this dog. They will also say they are saddened by what happened. End of story. The truth will be somewhere in the middle. It will not be uncovered by the SLC police department conducting an internal investigation of one of their own. The guy who had his dog killed needs to do two things here; hire an attorney and pray Sim Gill gets involved.


No he was found after 90 minutes of searching. They searched the house a second time when he was found. So not within minutes. So he needed ronbe searching adjacent yards.


----------



## Dunkem

Springville Shooter said:


> Let me also be clear that right, wrong, or indifferent, I would never put the life of a dog before a person. If the officer was truly in danger, even if it was due to his own negligence, then I'm glad that he took the action to keep himself safe.
> 
> Under investigation, unemployed, and embarrassed are all better than dead. Whatever happened(s)I am glad the the officer is safe. Please don't mistake my position of questioning to be in any way aligned with those who have spoken ill will against the officer. I am simply questioning the situation and wanting real answers followed by appropriate corrective action by the department.-------SS


Well said SS.


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## GBell

SS, I can't wait till this cop is unemployed. 

As far as the Trolley Square end of things. Ken Hammond
THE hero of the tragedy did 90 days in jail For Unlawful
Carnal Knowledge with a minor. Guess he should have got
The "hero" pass too.


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## koltraynor

GBell said:


> SS, I can't wait till this cop is unemployed.
> 
> As far as the Trolley Square end of things. Ken Hammond
> THE hero of the tragedy did 90 days in jail For Unlawful
> Carnal Knowledge with a minor. Guess he should have got
> The "hero" pass too.


But he's probably still a hero to some people on this thread because he didn't shoot a dog.


----------



## Skally

None of them are "Heroes" its a job they signed up to do. Doing your job does not make you a hero


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Skally said:


> None of them are "Heroes" its a job they signed up to do. Doing your job does not make you a hero


I was in the military. All of us signed up for the job. Everybody that I knew did the job. Are those that fight for liberty and freedom not heroes just because they signed up for it? Then a guy that randomly saves a child from drowning in a stream is a hero?

Most people would piss themselves if put the same position that many others sign up for. Heroes in my book. Whether they chose the life or not.


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## Skally

You know what you are putting yourself into when you sign up for Military or law enforcement. You are trained to perform a specific job, and performing this specific job does not make you a "hero"


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

so heroism must be a purely random act committed only by those that have a job that does not require extreme courage...........I will let everybody know that the medals received are worthless because Skally says so.

Maybe next time you see a house on fire you should show them how brave you are.........your idiocy will show up on it's own.


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## Skally

Its easy to be a "hero" when its part of your job description and you are getting paid cash $$ for Said heroism.


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## Dunkem

Skally said:


> Its easy to be a "hero" when its part of your job description and you are getting paid cash $$ for Said heroism.


So then if your getting paid you would put your life on the line for a stranger with out a second thought? Just curious because thats a heck of a lot of dedication, and I dont think it would be that "easy"


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## Bax*

Skally said:


> Its easy to be a "hero" when its part of your job description and you are getting paid cash $$ for Said heroism.


Just like it is easy to hate a cop when he catches you doing something wrong, but then love him when he comes to help you.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Skally said:


> Its easy to be a "hero" when its part of your job description and you are getting paid cash $$ for Said heroism.


You ever been there / done that? and by the way it is $ not $$


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## Skally

Mr Muleskinner said:


> You ever been there / done that? and by the way it is $ not $$


Nope but i didn't willing sign the papers to be there and do that, like you did.

What was your motivation to join the military?


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## Mr Muleskinner

Skally said:


> Nope but i didn't willing sign the papers to be there and do that, like you did.
> 
> What was your motivation to join the military?


I had several.


make my mother proud
challenge myself
serve my country
serve my forefathers that served their country
education and growth
travel
Making money was not one of them.

The real question is..........what was your motivation not to serve?

Most people, when it boils down to it are scared of what might happen. That or they can't stand the thought of sacrificing some of their own freedom. They think they are too independent (free) to take orders from anybody else.


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## Skally

The biggest reason i would not serve is the simple fact that i don't agree with what the military is doing in other countries...How did Iraq turn out?

I will now gracefully bow out of this argument.


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## Springville Shooter

Anyways......back to the original subject after that little diversion. I am patiently waiting for the next press release. I can't figure out what could possibly be taking so long to investigate?-

And to Muleskinner.......thanks for your service.-----SS


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## Springville Shooter

Bax* said:


> Just like it is easy to hate a cop when you catch him doing something wrong, but then love him when he comes to help you.


Fixed it for ya Bax......works both ways.------SS


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## Mr Muleskinner

Springville Shooter said:


> Anyways......back to the original subject after that little diversion. I am patiently waiting for the next press release. I can't figure out what could possibly be taking so long to investigate?-
> 
> And to Muleskinner.......thanks for your service.-----SS


You bet..........and for the record I was far from any type of a hero but I served with many that are or were.


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## GaryFish

One common thing I see in this story, with many others in the news, is the desire to out-scoop other news sources, so news outlets will publish fragments of the story just to be first. And interweb news cycles are measured in seconds, not days. There is not time for fact checking. So the basic facts drastically changed the way the public received this story:

- cops searching for kid. 
- cop shoots dog in a back yard. 

Print it!

Irresponsible media coverage has done more to shape and mis-shape this than anything else. 

More than anything, I'm glad the kid was found - alive. 90 minutes is a ton of time. That little girl that was kidnapped, raped, and murdered a couple years back was dead less than 90 minutes after disappearing. She was dead when cops knocked on the door of the apartment where her body lay in the bath tub, and was told she wasn't there. 

I have great respect for cops. I appreciate that they signed up to do what most people do not. They deal with stuff regularly, that most of us cannot imagine, right here in the shadow of the everlasting hills. And take far more crap than gratitude for it. 

I don't know what happened in the backyard that the cop decided to shoot the dog. And if he hit it one out of two shots, then he is better than most cops, where a hit rate is 1/3. 

And I'll second the thought that a dog is not a child. Not even close. And I am a man that is 100% convinced that our springer spaniel has been every bit as important in helping my autistic son function, as any human around. I love dogs. But they are not on par with my children. 

I'll reserve my own judgement until all the information comes out, and not rely on the media reports that were on the interwebs before the empty cartridge hit the ground.


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## Bax*

Gary, you hit the nail on the head. 

Wait for all the facts to come out before you form a lynch mob!


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## GBell

Could care less about any media or past hero
Worthy acts. 

Simple fact is, there are certain situations where
It is acceptable to kill a dog in the line of duty. If a 
Dog is on the street, unchecked attacking people ya
Put it down no questions asked. If a dog enters your 
Property and attacks, you put it down. 

If you are hunting birds and you happen upon a dog 
And you put it down you are a criminal. If you
Are hunting and you kick a dog, you'll get knocked on
Your ass right Fowlmouth. 

If you go uninvited on to secure private property and
Kill a dog because you are. 1 to stupid to find out if there
Is a dog there to begin with, or 2 can't control the situation
You just put yourself into, you sure as $&@/ ain't fit to be a cop.


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## Fowlmouth

GBell said:


> If you
> Are hunting and you kick a dog, you'll get knocked on
> Your ass right Fowlmouth. Well I don't like people kicking my dog. -oOo-


 *********************


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## Springville Shooter

Ok fowly, you gotta start a new thread and tell the story. We all want to hear a good arse wuppin story.......like UFC meets Duck Commander! Can't wait to hear it.-------SS


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## massmanute

Bax* said:


> Wait for all the facts to come out before you form a lynch mob!


Do you really think all the facts will come out without public pressure?

With or without public pressure, I doubt if all the facts will come out and be presented in an unbiased manner.


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## Springville Shooter

Bump.......it looks like this story is headed under the rug where the PD wants it. Maybe enough new news will happen over the holiday weekend that the public will forget about old Geist. Mission accomplished!------SS


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## koltraynor

Or they gave the owner more money than he dreamed he could get for a dog and he realized it was only a dog.


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## Critter

Springville Shooter said:


> Bump.......it looks like this story is headed under the rug where the PD wants it. Maybe enough new news will happen over the holiday weekend that the public will forget about old Geist. Mission accomplished!------SS


I don't know if they get swept under the rug but the sensationalism of it all that the news agency want to put up on their screen is gone now and if anything it may just end up being a time filler if they even report on it. That is the sad thing about something like this, for the first week or two it is in everyones eyes and it is what everyone is talking about, then it quiets up as they do their investigation and people forget about it and it is no longer headline news that the TV stations and newspapers want to put a reporters time and effort into.

The best thing that you could do if you want to find out what happens is to contact the reporters that were filing the original story and see if they plan on doing a follow up.


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## Springville Shooter

koltraynor said:


> Or they gave the owner more money than he dreamed he could get for a dog and he realized it was only a dog.


Maybe it's beyond your scope of comprehension but there are dogs in this world that are priceless. Just ask any K-9 officer what his companion is worth in dollars, or ask a bird hunter , or hounds man. You might get a few sideways looks.

Regardless of the restitution that they make with the owner, they also owe "we the people" an explanation and a resolution. Remember, WE are the employer in this scenario. Any payment made to the dog owner is made with OUR money. Don't loose sight of these facts.-------SS


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## koltraynor

Nope, still an animal not a person. I don't care what the use is. I'm betting when they do settle we don't hear a word.


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## Springville Shooter

Then we agree on one point....."We will not hear a word." And the reason will be that too many people are willing to simply let it go. That's what they count on. Easy to be apathetic when it happens to someone else. Someday it might be you that gets the shaft. Will you be disappointed when no one cares? I repeat my concern that if there is a settlement that all the citizens of SLC are getting the shaft because they are footing the bill.------SS


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## Fowlmouth

A deputy's horse was assaulted at the Rainbow Gathering, and the person was arrested and charged as they should have been. My point is law enforcement need to understand it works both ways. You blow a guys dog away and you should expect equal action.;-)


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## bugchuker

A guy in Lehi poisoned some dogs, turned himself in and got misdemeanor charges.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30618330&ni...onfesses-to-poisoning-lehi-dog&s_cid=queue-13

He should have just called SLCPD. Dogs are dogs, my main issue here is violation of private property rights and the fact cops get away with crap and cover it up.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

Wow, really guys? I'm disappointed. Thought you guys were above this kind of non-sense. Guess I was wrong. The cop ain't "getting away" with anything. There isn't some big "conspiracy". There was a ****ty set of circumstances and a pup got killed, it sucks yeah, but really? I feel for the dude that lost his dog. I run a police dog, he's my best friend, I love him to death, I would be devastated if he was killed, line of duty or otherwise. However, I realize he is a dog, and given the wrong set of circumstances he could get killed. I also have other dogs that are family pets and have been in the family longer than my own kids, I love them too. It would suck if they got killed in these circumstances, but, if I were not home and a kid were missing in my neighborhood, I would expect the Police to enter my backyard and do their due diligence to find the kid. I know a few things about dogs that you guys either are negating or don't know. They're dogs #1 they do not use logic, they don't have that capacity. Some dogs that are the "nicest dog you could ever meet" are completely different when their owners are not around. My police dog is 70 lbs, and he is scary as hell. I understand this was a weim, but he was 110 lbs, do you realize how big a 110lb weim is? At 70lbs my dog is big. Have you seen what a 110lb dog can do? I have and it ain't pretty. All you tough guys that say "I would just kick him" or "I would just yell at him", let me tell you something, I've seen what happens to dudes that kick big dogs, do you enjoy having your calve muscles fully intact? How about your tricep? The fact of the matter is this, you guys are making assumptions based on tidbits of information. Should the cop be held accountable, absolutely 100%. Should he be crucified before all the facts are gathered? Would it be ok for him to make enforcement decisions on you based on a few tidbits, without gathering the facts and getting all the information available? Its sad to see the day when you all are so quick to jump on the "I hate the cops because I heard a rumor that this happened to so and so" band wagon. The officer aint getting out of anything. You guys getting on here spinning everyone up and inferring you would blow a cop away for shooting your dog is doing little more than fueling the fire. You want the cops to be there to help you when you need then quit telling them their pieces of crap and making assumptions based on shoddy info. None of you were there. Innocent until proven guilty, nah we'll form lynch mobs instead. Dont forget your torches.


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## massmanute

'Marine'

We don't know if the policeman is getting out of anything or not, nor do we know if there will be a coverup or not. In the end, either or both issues could be answered either Yes or No to either question or both.

However, I remain skeptical about whether the department can investigate one of its own without bias.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

I hear what your saying, they are actually consulting with several other entities FBI, State, DA, Humane Society. SLCPD is very community oriented, almost to a fault in some situations. They will get the word out when their investigation is completed and they know what needs to be done. Here's the deal with these type of things, all things really in LE, you don't put the word out until you know exactly what the word is. This protects the investigation from being tainted and people from getting this kind of flak when its not deserved, this goes for a suspect or an officer. As far as it being done by their dept. the last thing they are going to do is protect their guy just to protect him. There is nothing cops hate more than corrupt, dirty, or reckless cops. It creates all of this kind of crap for us good ones that are just trying to do our best. I will tell you one thing, cops are becoming more and more hesitant to take appropriate enforcement and force precautions because of this kind of stuff. Why put your butt on the line to be crucified by the people your putting your butt on the line for?


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## Fowlmouth

Fowlmouth said:


> A deputy's horse was assaulted at the Rainbow Gathering, and the person was arrested and charged as they should have been. My point is law enforcement need to understand it works both ways. You blow a guys dog away and you should expect equal action.;-)


 USMARINEhuntinfool, I DID NOT in any way mean blow a cop away with this statement. I apologize that you took it this way, I should have written this better. I was just saying that where the horse was assaulted and the guy that assaulted it was charged, it should work equally for a cop to possibly be charged. Again, I'm sorry I wasn't clear with this statement.
Be safe out there!


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

Thanks for the clarification Fowlmouth, I was concerned when I read that cause I've always thought you to be pretty level headed, so that makes more sense. I do get what you mean that way, and actually if he is found to be in the wrong, he does face the likelihood of being charged and/or losing his job.


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## Loke

I believe that there are way too many questions and exaggerations here to form a fair opinion. Media reports that the dog weighed 110 pounds. The breed standard for the Weim is 24 to 27 inches tall. And seeing the pics on the news, the dog didn't look to be morbidly obese, so I'm going to assume that the dog weighed closer to 65 pounds than 110. I have had a dog that weighed a legitimate 110 pounds, and he was 35" at the shoulder. And a Malamute. A much larger and broader dog.
We also don't know how secure the fence was. Is it reasonable to assume that a three year old could enter the yard? I don't know. How far was the dog from the officer when it was shot? We don't know. Was the dog really acting in an aggressive manner, or was its excitement to see someone that might give it some attention misinterpreted? We don't know. I don't see that there can be a fair conclusion to this incident. Too much public outcry, not enough real information, and a department that has (in my opinion) been known to crucify an officer based on poor information and pressure from the public.


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## massmanute

Loke,

It looks like it's going to be the officer's word against the dog's, and the dog is dead, so he can't talk.


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## utahgolf

this fella wouldn't stand a chance in salt lake!!! funny vid tho.


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## bamacpl

Very well said Loke!!!
-just my opinion, but shooting the dog will never be justified in my book...


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## rlpenn

Loke said:


> I believe that there are way too many questions and exaggerations here to form a fair opinion. Media reports that the dog weighed 110 pounds. The breed standard for the Weim is 24 to 27 inches tall. And seeing the pics on the news, the dog didn't look to be morbidly obese, so I'm going to assume that the dog weighed closer to 65 pounds than 110. I have had a dog that weighed a legitimate 110 pounds, and he was 35" at the shoulder. And a Malamute. A much larger and broader dog.
> We also don't know how secure the fence was. Is it reasonable to assume that a three year old could enter the yard? I don't know. How far was the dog from the officer when it was shot? We don't know. Was the dog really acting in an aggressive manner, or was its excitement to see someone that might give it some attention misinterpreted? We don't know. I don't see that there can be a fair conclusion to this incident. Too much public outcry, not enough real information, and a department that has (in my opinion) been known to crucify an officer based on poor information and pressure from the public.


The dog owner described his dog as a "very large Weimaraner" and larger than the breed standard. This is in his trib talk interview.

He looks quite large in this pic:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...en/derivatives/article_970/geist26n-3-web.jpg


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## Fowlmouth

Who cares how big or small the dog is. I think people are missing the point here. Yes, it is tragic that a dog was shot and killed. What is more tragic is the fact it happened on private property, in a secured yard, at an innocent mans residence. This goes way beyond the loss of a dog. I am more concerned with the fact the officer entered an innocent citizens domain and destroyed his property. We can argue this all day, the simple truth in this situation is the cop should not have pulled the trigger, even if the dog was aggressive. Take one for the team if you have to.


----------



## Springville Shooter

Loke said:


> I believe that there are way too many questions and exaggerations here to form a fair opinion. Media reports that the dog weighed 110 pounds. The breed standard for the Weim is 24 to 27 inches tall. And seeing the pics on the news, the dog didn't look to be morbidly obese, so I'm going to assume that the dog weighed closer to 65 pounds than 110. I have had a dog that weighed a legitimate 110 pounds, and he was 35" at the shoulder. And a Malamute. A much larger and broader dog.
> We also don't know how secure the fence was. Is it reasonable to assume that a three year old could enter the yard? I don't know. How far was the dog from the officer when it was shot? We don't know. Was the dog really acting in an aggressive manner, or was its excitement to see someone that might give it some attention misinterpreted? We don't know. I don't see that there can be a fair conclusion to this incident. Too much public outcry, not enough real information, and a department that has (in my opinion) been known to crucify an officer based on poor information and pressure from the public.


I would like these few questions answered from the investigation:

Where was the officer in ralation to the gate when he encountered and shot the dog?

How far was the dog from the officer when he shot?

What made the officer decide to skip other defenses and take immediate lethal action?

These are simple questions that could easily be answered without bias as a result of a quick investigation and could go a long way toward resolving this issue that has put the department at odds with a large number of citizens. The way I see it the facts is the facts.....if the officer was truly in danger and had no other choice so be it. If the officer acted irrationally then so be it. Either way we need to have some transparency and truth instead of being treated like we're not worthy of the truth by the department.---------SS


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

So is there like a 1-800 number to call and ask if its ok to protect yourself or something? Or do I just call you when I'm in danger and ask you? By take one for the team do you mean I should just lose my calf muscle, or should I just let him tear my pants, or should I lose my tricep to the dog, maybe let him bite my junk off, lose a finger(s)? If a guy decides to point a gun at me because I legally end up in his back yard (searching for a lost child, a murder suspect that just jumped his fence, a rapist that's hiding in his shed) and he doesn't like me there do I allow him to shoot me once, twice, maybe I can shoot back after the 3rd shot, I mean I should atleast take a couple for the team first, right? Again, this is a crappy situation for the dog owner and I feel terribly for him, but I would like these questions clarified so I know what I can and cant do should I end up in a terrible situation in the future.


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## massmanute

'Marine',

'Shooter is simply asking for facts and transparency. Your response to this very reasonable request seems a bit over the top to me.


----------



## Fowlmouth

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> So is there like a 1-800 number to call and ask if its ok to protect yourself or something? Or do I just call you when I'm in danger and ask you? Of course not, personal judgement and common sense should be applied. By take one for the team do you mean I should just lose my calf muscle, or should I just let him tear my pants, or should I lose my tricep to the dog, maybe let him bite my junk off, lose a finger(s)? You run a police dog correct? Has your dog ever ripped a suspects calf muscle off, tore a tricep or bitten someones junk completely off? I'm sure a dog like yours is capable, but he probably hasn't done that. My point is it's unlikely this weimeraner would have been that aggressive, and if he was other measures could have been taken before the handgun came out. Some of these things have been mentioned pepper spray or taser for example. If a guy decides to point a gun at me because I legally end up in his back yard (searching for a lost child, a murder suspect that just jumped his fence, a rapist that's hiding in his shed) and he doesn't like me there do I allow him to shoot me once, twice, maybe I can shoot back after the 3rd shot, I mean I should atleast take a couple for the team first, right? Absolutely not, the difference is, and I believe you mentioned this in a previous post, a person can reason a dog can't. So a person should use common sense and know better than to do something stupid like that. Again, this is a crappy situation for the dog owner and I feel terribly for him, but I would like these questions clarified so I know what I can and cant do should I end up in a terrible situation in the future.We would all like clarification on this situation.[/QUOTE]
> I hope you are NEVER in a situation like this. I understand where you are coming from and how you wouldn't want your safety compromised in any way. Be safe, keep a cool head and treat people the way you expect to be treated.


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

Massmanute, my response was to Fowl. But I can actually respond to Shooter, his post somehow got in between, not sure how that happened? 

To answer Shooter:
From the officers I have talked to he was 15ish yds from the gate coming out of an "entry way" if you will actually entering the back yard. The dog presented almost immediately upon entering the back yard. They met on what you would call a blind corner, the officer entered through the gate walked through the area between the house and a shed car port or other outbuilding and walked through that area to the back where he encountered the dog. Sounds to me as though the timing was the issue. From what I understand, when they met at the blind corner the dog was within mere feet (1-5 ft no one was real sure other than to say it was "really close") They said the reason he "skipped" the others was the immediacy of the interaction. He was already within feet when he saw him. This information all comes from officers that appears to be credible based on pictures I've seen of the "scene", but take it as you will. None of them were the officer involved. 

Fowlmouth-That is the exact reason I used those examples, I've seen a calf ripped off by a dog, a tricep, I've seen a person "scalped", and our former K9 Sergeant had his Penis essentially bitten off by his own dog, held intact only by the urethra. I was bitten on the testicles by a police dog and spent a week unable to do anything other than sit on the couch at home with ice on my balls eating antibiotics and pain meds. 

From what I can gather, he went to gun because of the immediacy of the situation. He walked out the entry way and had a matter of maybe seconds to decide. 

I hear ya bud, I appreciate your sentiment and I do actually appreciate you asking questions I like cops being held accountable, I dislike them being crucified without hard facts to support it.


----------



## Huge29

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> our former K9 Sergeant had his Penis essentially bitten off by his own dog, held intact only by the urethra. I was bitten on the testicles by a police dog and spent a week unable to do anything other than sit on the couch at home with ice on my balls eating antibiotics and pain meds. .


How did these happen?


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

Training accidents.


----------



## massmanute

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> Training accidents.


Did you shoot the dog?


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

Nope, we are not armed when we conduct training and there were other officers with us to end the scenario before further harm. Had I been alone and armed I would have killed the dog. Police dogs have been shot by officers, including their own handlers, when these types of scenarios have occurred outside of training. Again, crappy situation but it is what it is


----------



## Skally

Sounds like marine may have some PTSD

also sounds like the cops are experts on dog behavior and training.... cant even keep their own dogs under control during a training session, let alone deal with a citizens best friend.


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

Wow, nice Skally, did you come up with that insult all by yourself?


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

For clarification, we were taking bites from the dogs, conducting "patrol" (bite) training. I was wearing a protective bite suit, which is the point I was making, even with protective equipment dogs can do damage. This was a controlled environment with protective equipment and the dogs can still do damage. So saying that someone should take a bite wearing no protective equipment, in my opinion, is not an acceptable risk. But Skally you can think whatever you want, how much time do you have training dogs again?


----------



## koltraynor

Skally said:


> Sounds like marine may have some PTSD
> 
> also sounds like the cops are experts on dog behavior and training.... cant even keep their own dogs under control during a training session, let alone deal with a citizens best friend.


Is that how you talk to and treat our brave soldiers who served in Iraq? Marine has put it on the line more that you and I ever will. He also almost lost his life being hit by a car on duty. Maybe have some respect for a HERO who never asked to be one. He has my respect just for serving.


----------



## rlpenn

Welp, this sure puts a kibosh on a lot of my outrage---2 animal control officers were viciously attacked by a dog they thought was friendly:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30642479&ni...ack-puts-2-officers-in-hospital&s_cid=queue-3


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

Well look at that, 2 officers seriously injured by a dog today.

"they said the dog, a brown and white Akita, was wearing a collar and seemed calm. One of the officers went to put a leash on it and that's when the large dog viciously attacked the officer. The injuries on his arms were so dramatic that he didn't realize he had injuries to the backs of his leg and back until later"

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30642479&nid=148&fm=latest_videos

Thanks Koltraynor. I appreciate it, but I'm not a hero, I've had the opportunity to know a lot of heroes over the years, and I haven't done half what they've done. I do appreciate the support and sentiment though.


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## RandomElk16

There is the part missing in that story where the dog wasn't in it's own yard minding its own business...

And that dog still didnt get a bullet to the head.


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## rlpenn

RandomElk16 said:


> There is the part missing in that story where the dog wasn't in it's own yard minding its own business...
> 
> And that dog still didnt get a bullet to the head.


It will get a different kind of shot.


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

You ended up with two officers seriously injured, which is what was missing in the other story, in case you forgot.


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## Mr Muleskinner

Skally said:


> Sounds like marine may have some PTSD
> 
> also sounds like the cops are experts on dog behavior and training.... cant even keep their own dogs under control during a training session, let alone deal with a citizens best friend.


Skally you are a real piece of...............work.


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## swbuckmaster

I could care less about a dog running around on public property or outside of its owners property getting killed. A dog on privite property is a different story. 

I dont wish any officer harm but I can see how it could go bad with an akita they are a large aggressive dog. I had one attack me and rip my hand apart. I would have shot the dog myself if I ever saw it again but the dog was already dead when i got out of the emergency room.


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## GBell

As I stated earlier, a dog running loose endangering
People, put it down. 

A dog in its own back yard doing what dogs in back yards
Do. Different story.


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## bugchuker

you want to know what bores me? The "hero" badge getting thrown around so loosely. I'm not saying this is the case here with usmarinehuntinfool, I don't know the guy, but just because a guy is a vet doesn't give him a pass at being an *******. Just because a guy is a vet doesn't mean he's respectable. I served with a lot of POS's that could be passed off as heroes because they are vets but in reality they're scum.

On the dog subject, that recent attack came just in time didn't it.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-shoot-dog-misses-hits-10-year/

This is when I join your club. This stupid a$$ deserves to be ridiculed, criticized, charged, and lose his job.


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## hoghunter011583

I just got one word, mace! I mean really he could have just maced the dog.. just saying!


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## hoghunter011583

I feel the same way about police as I do politicians, I know for sure they have some good ones out there, but I believe most of them are scum. If that offends you really consider why it offends you!


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## Fowlmouth

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-shoot-dog-misses-hits-10-year/
> 
> This stupid a$$ deserves to be ridiculed, criticized, charged, and lose his job.


 I agree!

Here's another perspective, and I touched on this a little bit in a previous post, but here it goes again. It was reported the officer in Salt Lake that shot the dog fired 2 shots. One bullet struck the dog, who knows where the other bullet ended up? The potential was there for the same thing to happen as the article you posted. I won't go into the "what if's" but it could have been a much worse situation than it was.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

It's different, but I hear ya. His shots were down, known backstop(ground/grass), and dog at extremely close proximity. At close proximity you are going to be shooting down and into the ground and I don't see a dog as that big of a threat, unless it is in close proximity. In close proximity you have to shoot down and into the ground just based on physics (dogs are short, humans not so short). If the dog is not in close proximity there is the opportunity to go to other options, OC (mace), Taser, run like hell. I am not at all defending shooting dogs no matter what, which some think is how cops work, just in circumstances where its warranted. 

On a side note, Fowlmouth, I think you would be a fun dude to hunt and bull **** with. If you ever have room in your boat and need someone to antagonize you a bit I'm your guy 

Hoghunter, that does offend me actually. How many cops do you know? I know in the neighborhood of a couple hundred and I've only know 2 that misrepresented their uniform or the public trust. Both of which were terminated and called out by cops long before the media or any civilian. Maybe you think their scum bags because your a criminal? Maybe you molest little boys? Although I would never make those assumptions on you, its interesting that you would lump all cops into the scum category. Do you even know what police do? Think about this, there are several thousands of officers in this state and there are only a handful of bad incidents that you could point out among all of them. Of those, we're talking about them. Police are held more accountable than any other profession I can think of. So stating that most of them are scum is irrational. Maybe you should reevaluate what you are doing in life?


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## massmanute

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> ...I know in the neighborhood of a couple hundred and I've only know 2 that misrepresented their uniform or the public trust.... Police are held more accountable than any other profession I can think of. So stating that most of them are scum is irrational.


Maybe it partly depends on what standard one would chose to apply. I have not had many interactions with the police. In most interactions the police acted reasonably, but among the interactions here are three anecdotes that I have personally observed over a period of years. One of these was out of state and two were in state.

In one case I observed a policeman run a stop sign. I waved him down and told him so. The honest thing would have been for him to write himself a ticket. The next lower level of appropriate response would have been to apologize for endangering the public safety by breaking the traffic laws. What actually was happened was that he took a belligerent attitude, demanded to see my license, and called in to see if there were any warrants out so he could arrest me. (There weren't)

In another case my friends and I (as juveniles) were accused by a neighbor of using firecrackers, which were illegal. (We were.) The city sent a policemen to investigate. He had alcohol on his breath.

The third case is a little more complicated. The background is that I once had a friend whose father was a policeman in another state. He told me that a policeman would never give another policeman a ticket. Years later I was on a long road trip with some relatives. Of the people in the car, one was a policeman living in a state that borders Utah, and one was an FBI agent. The one who was a policeman replied that he would not give a fellow officer a ticket, and the FBI agent said that he didn't believe an officer would decline to give a fellow officer a ticket.

On the return trip the FBI agent was in a different car. Here's where the story takes a funny turn. The FBI agent was driving and was pulled over for speeding. It was the first traffic stop he had ever had, and he was nervous. As he was fumbling through his wallet for his drivers license the policeman saw his FBI I.D. and told him that since the FBI guy was a law enforcement officer he would not give him a ticket.

None of these incidents would make it into the papers, and I doubt if any were (or even would have been) investigated by "internal affairs", but I pose to you the question of whether the public would be justified in considering these events as betrayals of the public trust, whether of a minor or major nature?

I also pose a second question of how common do you think these incidents are? If my experience is representative then most persons would have seen one or more similar incidents.

Posing a third question, have you ever declined to ticket someone you knew or suspected of being a law officer, or more generally, would you ticket a fellow officer, or do you know of cases where officers did not ticket other officers?


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

1) I have no idea why he ran the stop sign, he was in the wrong. I don't know what to tell ya. One sided story, sounds like he was an ass, still only 1 out of thousands. Don't forget we are humans also and make mistakes, including traffic violations. You should have called his supervisor and had the situation looked at. 

2) Again your talking about a situation that I can neither confirm or verify. I have stopped individuals that reeked of booze, when I have asked them to perform field sobriety tests they have passed and have blown .000 in a PBT. They smelled of alcohol but had either not drank in several days or in one case stated they had never drank at all. I worked with an officer at one time that came to work and smelled of alcohol. I notified the Sgt. and we had the officer submit to a breath test she was fired immediately. I worked with another officer that came to work smelling of alcohol, same thing, but he blew .000. We had a guy in the Marine Corps that I served with that smelled like alcohol all the time, didn't matter how long ago his last drink was. There is a reason I can't arrest people based on the "odor of alcohol". You only mentioned the smell of alcohol on his breath so I don't know what else could prove or disprove anything. I have learned over my career that the smell of alcohol is not a guarantee of anyone doing anything wrong. Although public perception becomes a problem. 

3) In law enforcement we have officer discretion. I write an equal amount of warnings as I do citations. Traffic laws are written to promote traffic safety, we enforce them to encourage that traffic safety. We use officer discretion in situations we know that a warning will likely result in compliance with the law/safe driving habits. We issue citations when we feel that the desired result will be more likely if issued the citation. I use the same standard with officers, if they are apologetic, know what they did wrong, and I believe they will adjust their habits they get a warning, same as I would give you. If something further is occurring (DUI, Reckless, Road Rage, Drugs, Etc) the officer will be going to jail zero tolerance. I can not speak for everyone but I have issued officers citations for traffic offenses.

4) No I would not consider these betrayals of the public trust. As I explained earlier you are discussing instances where we give the same benefit to regular citizens all the time. Should I issue a citation to everyone I stop? Or just officers because they're officers, remember I'm not allowed to do that to anyone else. I'm sure the public would be more disgruntled if I cited everybody.

5) Your first situations are not common at all. As for your third, it does occur. But just for your FYI officers that do that generally don't write firefighters, paramedics, doctors, nurses, school teachers, military, or other public servants and write A LOT of warnings to the general public. 

6) Like I stated before, I have issued warnings to LEO's, I have issued citations to LEO's, I know of LEO's getting warnings, and I know of LEO's getting citations from other LEO's. We do have a saying about "Professional Courtesy": Professional courtesy is I don't break the law in your jurisdiction, you don't break the law in mine.

Another thing worth mentioning is in the thousands, and I mean literally thousands (while working the road I would stop 20-30 cars a shift), I have over my career stopped maybe 5-7 LEO's. So of the thousands of people I have seen committing traffic violations, less than 1% of them have been LEO. The ratio of them being cited is exactly proportionate to the citations/warnings I have issued to regular civilians over my career. 

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I would bet if we were to look at your profession there would be far less accountability and far more individuals being untruthful/immoral.


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## Fowlmouth

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> On a side note, Fowlmouth, I think you would be a fun dude to hunt and bull **** with. If you ever have room in your boat and need someone to antagonize you a bit I'm your guy


 I have an empty boat more times than I do a full one. Just let me know when you can get out and we will take care of some ducks.


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## Fowlmouth

I don't know what's worse, a dog getting shot or this....-O,-
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30693228&nid=148&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick1


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

That, definitely that!!!


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## Dunkem

Fowlmouth said:


> I don't know what's worse, a dog getting shot or this....-O,-
> http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30693228&nid=148&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick1


I say shoot the guy.


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## cornerfinder

I live about a half a mile from these apartments. I am also the author of "Pit Bulls Waist of Skin". Had I been there I would have killed that dog point blank!
Last year the state of Utah decided (HB 91) that cities could no longer regulate the K9s in their own city. They can regulate fish (Parana) , snakes (rattle etc.), cats and a multitude of other stupid animals that have no business around civilized folks. So after this SLC police issue, I am sure that all cops are gun shy about shooting dogs, and and I am sure that is what happened here. Seriously more people called with concerns about a dog, than when a child is abused and killed. God forbid someone shoot a dog. It is total crap that a man lost a great dog that was just hanging in its own back yard! That cop probably needs some training. But in his defense he probably only deals with problem dogs, and has reason to fear for his safety. I mean just look at some of the news making pit bull (and other) attacks that kill or permanently disfigure children mostly, and adults as well. If you had to see a child's face hanging off by the literal skin of their teeth you too would err on the side of safety. I have had the opportunity to work with K9 units. Most of those dogs are just controlled furry and not too bright either, (excluding search and rescue). So I say again if that was your only interaction with dogs you would shoot first. However the fact that you read this web site and this section that probably indicates you know something about our best four legged friends. You could probably identify in an instant a good dog, from bad one. A *common* dog's last resort is to bite. But most of the dogs cops deals with are most likely not common. Case in point this Akita, a POS dog. Unless you live in the country, and bears or other predators is an issue. Then it's a great dog (has no place in the city). So if you think you could do better job join the police force. Problem is you know dogs, there easy to understand, its people who are stupid.
M


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## koltraynor

Fowlmouth said:


> I don't know what's worse, a dog getting shot or this....-O,-
> http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30693228&nid=148&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick1


Where's the outcry for justice for this dog? I looked but haven't seen a thread?


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## 30-06-hunter

cornerfinder said:


> I live about a half a mile from these apartments. I am also the author of "Pit Bulls Waist of Skin". Had I been there I would have killed that dog point blank!
> The worst part of the whole thing is. Last year the state of Utah decided (HB 91) that cities could no longer regulate the K9s in their own city. They can regulate fish (Parana) , snakes (rattle etc.), cats and a multitude of other stupid animals that have no business around civilized folks. So after this SLC police issue I am sure that all cops are gun shy about shooting dogs than and I am sure that is what happened here. Seriously more people called with concerns abouta dog, than when a child is abused and killed. God forbid someone shoot a dog. It is total crap that a man lost a great dog that was just hanging in its own back yard! That cop probably needs some training.But in his defense he probably only deals with problem dogs, and has reason to fear for his safety.I mean just look at some of the news making pit bull (and other) attacks that kill or permanently disfigure children mostly, but old and adults as well. If you had to see a child's face hanging off by the literal skin of their teeth you too would err on the side of safety.I have had the opportunity to work with K9 units too.Most of those dogs are just controlled furry and not too bright either, (excluding search and rescue). So I say again if that is your only interaction with dogs. I too would shoot first. However the fact that you read this web site and this section that probably indicates you know something about our best four legged friends.I and you too could identify in an instant good dog, from bad one. A *common* dog's last resort is to bite. But most of the dogs cops deals with are most likely not common. Case in point an Akita, a POS dog. Unless you live in the country, and bears or other predators are an issue. Then it's a great dog (has no place in the city). So if you think you could do better join the police force. Problem is you know dogs, there easy to understand, its people who are stupid. I would probably shoot stupid people because they bark or yell in a threating manner.
> M


Did you type that or copy and paste from someone else? Proofread much? Definitely one of the worse written responses I have read.


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## 30-06-hunter

koltraynor said:


> Where's the outcry for justice for this dog? I looked but haven't seen a thread?


Pretty crazy!


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## Mr Muleskinner

cornerfinder said:


> I live about a half a mile from these apartments. I am also the author of "Pit Bulls Waist of Skin". Had I been there I would have killed that dog point blank!
> The worst part of the whole thing is. Last year the state of Utah decided (HB 91) that cities could no longer regulate the K9s in their own city. They can regulate fish (Parana) , snakes (rattle etc.), cats and a multitude of other stupid animals that have no business around civilized folks. So after this SLC police issue I am sure that all cops are gun shy about shooting dogs than and I am sure that is what happened here. Seriously more people called with concerns abouta dog, than when a child is abused and killed. God forbid someone shoot a dog. It is total crap that a man lost a great dog that was just hanging in its own back yard! That cop probably needs some training.But in his defense he probably only deals with problem dogs, and has reason to fear for his safety.I mean just look at some of the news making pit bull (and other) attacks that kill or permanently disfigure children mostly, but old and adults as well. If you had to see a child's face hanging off by the literal skin of their teeth you too would err on the side of safety.I have had the opportunity to work with K9 units too.Most of those dogs are just controlled furry and not too bright either, (excluding search and rescue). So I say again if that is your only interaction with dogs. I too would shoot first. However the fact that you read this web site and this section that probably indicates you know something about our best four legged friends.I and you too could identify in an instant good dog, from bad one. A *common* dog's last resort is to bite. But most of the dogs cops deals with are most likely not common. Case in point an Akita, a POS dog. Unless you live in the country, and bears or other predators are an issue. Then it's a great dog (has no place in the city). So if you think you could do better join the police force. Problem is you know dogs, there easy to understand, its people who are stupid. I would probably shoot stupid people because they bark or yell in a threating manner.
> M


garbage.


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## swbuckmaster

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-shoot-dog-shoots/


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## Skally

The top law enforcement official in the entire state is and was crooked. Police officers have lost site of what their job is


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## Springville Shooter

Skally said:


> The top law enforcement official in the entire state is and was crooked.(Some) Police officers have lost site of what their job is


There, fixed it for you in the interest of not painting with too broad of a brush. The investigations of Shurtleff and Swallow should open some folks eyes about the tendency of corruption with power. ALL agents, cops, officials, etc need oversight.-----SS


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## utahgolf

yep, the tea party and conservatives are worried about the loss of freedom from the Fed but they don't seem to worry about what is happening at their local police departments. I worry more about the gear the police now have and are getting, their view of thinking they are in a war zone, knock-less warrants, what constitutes as probable cause, police investigating police etc.... Lots to think about the freedoms we have in the hands of other citizens. OVERSIGHT is lacking, that's for sure. I'm done with this thread though and I can't imagine how bad it would be if we didn't have police but such a position demands the utmost transparency and accountabilty.


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## Fowlmouth

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30830653&ni...ly-shoot-pit-bull&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

This could also go under the "Pitbulls Waste Of Skin" thread too I suppose.


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## RandomElk16

Should have shot the idiot with the bat.


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## Utmuddguy

My problem with this isn't that the dog was shot. It was the fact that it was shot in a location the cop had no right to be. I've heard that it was ok because he was looking for a kid and a girl was dead in a house once and the cops couldn't search it. We have a constitution for a reason. Next thing you know they will order the entire neighborhood out of their houses and search without a warrant because a child is missing. Seems like one of the other "heroes of trolley square" was fired for some bad behavior up north.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=5734573

Nice try SLPD


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## massmanute

It's been more than a month now. Have the police finished their investigation of the incident?


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## OKEE

Fowlmouth said:


> http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30830653&ni...ly-shoot-pit-bull&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory
> 
> This could also go under the "Pitbulls Waste Of Skin" thread too I suppose.


Not much of a public outcry when a pit is shot.


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## Springville Shooter

Still investigating..................eternally apparently. That's one way to blow off the public. Just investigate forever. What a joke how we are disrespected by our own servants. At this point we need an independent investigation.--------SS


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## massmanute

Springville Shooter said:


> Still investigating..................eternally apparently. That's one way to blow off the public. Just investigate forever. What a joke how we are disrespected by our own servants. At this point we need an independent investigation.--------SS


My suspicion too about eternally investigating to blow off the public.


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## Fowlmouth

I read on FB that the owner of the dog didn't take the settlement that was offered. He wants accountability and justice for his dog.


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## Springville Shooter

He might have some morals and realize that the cops paying him off with our money is not a solution to the problem. A good lawyer might be able to get into some personal accounts. That's where the payment needs to come from. Personal accountability.......kind of like at a normal job?--------SS


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## koltraynor

The justice for geist FB page posted an update a few days ago. He was Offered a substantial settlement.


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## Fowlmouth

Now the owner regrets his remarks on FB.
http://kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_12896.shtml


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## RandomElk16

I think it shows he isn't really about the money. He really is shook with all this. His legal probably let him know they will pay some money, or eternally investigate, so take the money.

I don't hold against him either way.


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## Utmuddguy

SLPD is taking a page right out of Bill Clinton's play book. Just ignore it long enough and the media will let it go. I doubt we ever see anything come of this.


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## utahgolf

Utmuddguy said:


> SLPD is taking a page right out of Bill Clinton's play book. Just ignore it long enough and the media will let it go. I doubt we ever see anything come of this.


Or G.W's play book! I'm still waiting for him to tell me where all those WMD's are! ;-)
But I don't fault him for taking the settlement. That's how Organizations without transparency and accountability apologize for wrongdoings! and a settlement subsidized by the taxpayers.


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## koltraynor

It shows that no matter what kind of stand you take money will always win in the end. Whether it was about the money to begin with that's what people will remember. He has a lot of pissed off people calling him out on FB.


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## massmanute

I wonder, did he actually take the money? I thought he changed his mind on that.


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## Fowlmouth

Yep it sounds like he didn't take the settlement now.......


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## Fowlmouth

Marinated dog anyone?
http://kutv.com/news/features/national/stories/vid_6472.shtml


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## Bax*

Fowlmouth said:


> Marinated dog anyone?
> http://kutv.com/news/features/national/stories/vid_6472.shtml


Om nom nom nom -O,-

In all reality, I would eat a dog if it became necessary but it wouldnt be my first choice.


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## swbuckmaster

I ate dog a few months ago. Id eat it if I was starving but its the worst tasting meat ive ever eatn. Its worse then carp and on par with ducks ive shot.


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## Fowlmouth

http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_12934.shtml


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## Loke

Interesting how folks just want to use public land as their own private back yard. So they can ignore leash laws and let their animals roam free unsupervised. How long were these animals "missing" before the owners went looking for them?


> This used to be a place where dogs used to run free and the area was considered a backyard that all animals dream of. But in the past few months things changed.


sounds like the owner finally learned to be responsible for the safety of his pets


> Etzler says now his dogs won't really leave the property


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## Fowlmouth

Officer cleared in the shooting of Geist.
http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_12951.shtml


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## koltraynor

Good. Now we can move on. I'll bet he wished he had the 10k back. I don't think he'll get it again.


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## massmanute

Fowlmouth said:


> Officer cleared in the shooting of Geist.
> http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_12951.shtml


Not much information there. Given the lack of information, is there any reason to believe this was not a simple white wash job?


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## massmanute

Here is a quote from the citizen's review board report of this incident: "S said that he has not received any specific training related to adverse encounters with dogs, expanding that all of his deadly force training focused solely on dealing with humans."

Also, I anyone can correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that there was no evidence considered with respect to the paths of the bullet. Thus, the only evidence concerning how far apart the dog and the officer were at the time of the shooting is from the officer's account.

Regarding the dog itself, there was one emailed eyewitness report of the dog charging the fence toward someone on the other side of the fence on the same day as the shooting. There were no other eyewitness accounts that the dog was an aggressive dog. This raises an important question. Did the police interview neighbors with regard to the dog's general behavior?

The citizen's board discussed above is a separate report from the internal affairs report from the police department. I don't know how to find the internal affairs report.


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## Spry Yellowdog

Was there ever any doubt what the internal investigations finding would be?

Spry


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## massmanute

Spry Yellowdog said:


> Was there ever any doubt what the internal investigations finding would be?
> 
> Spry


Little doubt in my mind.


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## goonsquad

I'm sure the police investigated deeply... -O,-


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## massmanute

Over at the Fox 13 news web page there was a discussion of this story, and one of the responders said the following, which I thought was very well written and insightful. His handle is TCWriter, and here is what he said:

"Like most disasters, this one consisted of a series of screwups, and it’s this aspect of the incident that neither the police nor the civilian review board seem willing to address.
First, the officer went into a yard with a lot blind areas (his testimony) without announcing his presence to any people or dogs present. Every meter reader knows this, yet an experienced police officer hadn’t received this training?
Second, he went in without OC spray on his belt. Is that just a dumb omission, or does the department not care?
Finally, he went right for his service weapon, thereby ensuring he’d have to kill the dog instead of driving it away — should the dog actually threaten him.
The civilian review board might want to try deploying a wand before deciding it isn’t an option — they deploy quite quickly (about as quickly as you can draw and ready your service weapon, and I’m a competitive shooter who is faster than most). An officer and a wand are more than a match for a weimaraner (who was only perceived to be aggressive by the officer, who had received no training). More importnatly, it offers a high probability of the officer and the dog walking away unharmed.
Drawing a service weapon — which a dog does not recognize and won’t serve as a deterrent — largely ensures a fatal outcome. Dogs, it seems, are not people when it comes to recognizing weapons.
It’s true that officer acted within department policy, but it’s also true the officer and the department participated in a series of screwups, some of which I’d suggest bordered on negligent. Fix any one of them, and this incident could have been avoided.
Unfortunately — instead of recognizing that fact — the civilian review report (complete with its multiple typos and bizarre acceptance of facts not in evidence) simply recorded police testimony and then decided that nobody was lying.
In other words, it’s a screwup from start to finish, yet the department and Officer Olsen are apparently walk away convinced they’ve done the right things.
They haven’t. Not by a long shot."


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## utahgolf

I'm sure the cops seem pretty put off about even having to do an investigation. Without social media, the police wouldn't have even blinked an eye. I hope there's a lawsuit. These agencies need complete overhauls. If cops don't like it, then they can sign up for a new career.


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