# Gonzaga versus Utah



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

To be honest, I used to cheer on all teams from Utah but since Utah has joined the PAC12 they have been hard to swallow. Their proclaimed greatness through association is silly and childish. I have always felt that when they win a few championships in football and basketball, they can proclaim a degree of greatness, but the constant hum of "we are in the PAC12" therefore we are" is nauseating.

Coach Few made it a point (probably somewhat self-serving, but also because there is a measure of truth to it) that the top three teams in the WCC are NCAA tournament worthy. This was met with constant disdain from the Ute faithful claiming that the WCC is nothing but a bunch of glorified high school teams playing in small high school gyms. The Ute's proudly strutting the size of the PAC12 gyms as some measure of greatness and power looking arrogantly down upon these smaller schools. 

When BYU was thrilled to beat Gonzaga at home this year in their small gym, the audible chant from the Utes was that Gonzaga was not that good this year and BYU caught them in a down year. Again, when BYU lost to them at home by 4 points and almost beat them in the WCC tourney but missed a last second shot, the U cronies stuffed the Y cries of "what if" by denouncing the Bulldogs.

So, while I will miss seeing a team from Utah progressing further in the NCAA, I must admit a small feeling of euphoria in Utah's lose, and their subsequent admission that yes indeed Gonzaga is a good team and their smugness in suggesting that they always knew that they were but that they are the "only" good team in that conference. 

I guess that is what has been bugging me about the Utes of late. Since going the PAC12 they have needed a taste of humble pie. They learned nothing from the previous seasons when they lost to Saint Mary's from the WCC in the first round of the NIT ( a tournament so below them). And I wonder if they will learn something from this beat down by the Bulldogs this year.

To those who are dissing on BYU for being in the loathsome NIT and claiming it has no meaning, I beg to differ. What coach and team would not enjoy the continued play, the growth, development and teaching opportunities that come from continuing to play. Yes, there is benefit to playing in the NIT.

The quick exit of 6 out of 7 teams from the PAC12 sends a very strong message that rankings and past conference championships are meaningful and neat to consider, but association alone does not make everyone a champion. PAC12 affiliates will do well to take note.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Still butt hurt about the Utes cancelling the basketball game, I see. 


Props to the Zags.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Never brought that up, but thanks for proving my point of Utah fan's arrogance.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

What was the Utah-BYU score this year? Just wondering...couldn't remember! I was turned off from BYU as a youngster because of BYU fan arrogance...especially in football. Oh, how times have changed, right? Think what you want, but the reality is that the PAC-12 is a better conference than the WCC. Gonzaga whooping the Utes doesn't prove otherwise...


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Let me say first that I graduated from the Y and have been a fan my whole life. However, there is no part of me that thinks that a) BYU deserved to be in the tourney this year, or b)that winning a few games in the NIT is even remotely comparable to what the U did by at least winning a 1st round NCAA game.

Props to the Utes on a solid season. I thought that they would've gone further in the tourney with Poeltl. They really missed having a guy like Delon Wright that could initiate some offense during the periods where they weren't able to get it into Poelt's hands consistently. Tough way to end a season to be sure, but I would take a win in the NCAA tourney over a deep NIT run every day of the week.

Catherder's comments were in no way arrogant. I unfollowed more of my coug-fan friends on social media Saturday than I did Ute fans. It's OK to hope for your conference to win a game, or even to cheer against your rival. It's not acceptable to equate the year the Utes had with what BYU failed to do and the situation they are currently in. If BYU was still(ever) in the NCAA tourney this year AND the Utes lost to a conference mate, then I would be a little more than OK with some friendly trash talk. Basically, I'm OK with hoping the rival loses, but in a year such as this, it's probably best not to gloat about it.

I'm hopeful for the next few years. But this year, the trash talk isn't coming from my mouth. Sometimes you just have to give props where they are due and hope your team figures it out for next year.


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## bekins24 (Sep 22, 2015)

I don't know what friends you have, but I'm a Utah fan and I've never even mentioned a lot of the points that you have brought up. 
1. Every conference has schools with smaller facilities. If someone brought up the difference in size of the Huntsman center vs. the Marriott center, and tried to say the Huntsman center was bigger they would probably be an idiot and a very, very misinformed fan. 
2. Gonzaga didn't look like the team they had been in previous years, but as the season they got better. Gonzaga has always been a team that can get through the regular season in a place to get to the tournament then their coach has the ability to get his players up for the tourney. They were definitely the better team yesterday, no doubt about that. But I don't think a BYU team would have done any better. 
3. I like that you have to pull up the NIT conference loss to St. Mary's when last year the Utes went way farther than anyone thought and almost beat.... oh right Duke. Who won the tournament by the way. 
4. I was actually rooting for BYU to make the tourney. :shock::shock::shock: Shocking right? We are supposed to be enemies. No. I wanted another team from Utah to represent in the tourney. Props to them for doing good in the NIT thus far and I hope they continue to do well. 

It really just seems like you have nothing better to do than bash on a team that decided not to play you anymore. Yes you seem like you're still throwing a little temper tantrum about that. Fact is, you guys need the Utes more than we need you so that you guys can try and boost your resume to get in.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

It's funny how you can read so much into what I wrote that isn't even there. Did I say the Y should have been in the tourney? No, I said that coach Few said they are a tournament caliber team. There were a bunch teams that are tournament caliber that didn't make it this year including in Few's opinion Saint Mary's. Nor have I stated that wining more games in the NIT are more meaningful than one and done or two and out in the NCAA tourney. I did say that there is meaningfulness to the NIT because it allows a team to continue to play and develop which is a good thing.

While, there are arrogant BYU fans both past and present, I don't feel I have been one--especially in the past when I actually loved to see Utah win at both football and basketball so that the championship games in the WAC and MWC were Utah and BYU. I could never figure out why Utah fans was always cheering against anyone who played BYU back then. Was it because they didn't want to play a championship game against them?

Like I mentioned in the opening statement, it hasn't been until the Utes joined the PAC12 and gloat about it that I have started to relish when they lose to "lesser" conference foes. Mostly, because they play the PAC12 card when they still have yet to win a title in football and basketball.

If you have not read all the boards and comments from the Utes this year about small gyms, lesser conferences, losing to high school teams, etc, then good for you. They are out there.

If you don't see how claiming someone is butt hurt or that a team doesn't need another team is arrogance, I guess that's your opinion. The teams have played for 100 years, it's a state tradition, it is a rivalry. You play the game for those reasons only in my opinion. Same with playing USU or Weber State--instate games are fun.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

It's sad how a minority of arrogant Jackwagon fans can ruin the image of a fan base. I know far and away more civil Ute fans than jerks, but I still have a bad image of the Ute fan base in general, just because of the few loud-mouthed overbearing fans that can't shut up. I'm sure it's the same for many die hard Ute fans' image of BYU fans.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

HighNDry, I agree that the game should be played. I just didn't take offense to what Catherder said.

My comment was directed at the fact that the original post came across as gloating over a loss a bit. In my opinion, the loss itself stings enough. 

My follow up comments were on the general tenor of posts on facebook etc. from BYU fans and varying levels of saying the WCC should have had 3 teams in, not that that's what you were implying. Sorry to put words in your mouth.

Both fan bases have a fair number of insufferable fans. I'm just trying not to add to that number.......


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## bekins24 (Sep 22, 2015)

HnD, I like that you say you rooted for Utah to do good in football but then immediately turn around and throw all Ute fans in the same bus that don't want BYU to succeed. From your posts and you even said it yourself... "I must admit a small feeling of euphoria in Utah's lose" you are in the exact same boat as them. So don't think you're all high and mighty because of rooting for Utah back in the day. 
Yes saying BYU needs Utah might be a little arrogant, but not as much as you think if you actually stop and look at the big picture. When Utah plays in a conference for football and basketball with multiple ranked teams, there is an automatic sense that a team is good, and worthy of going to a championship if they place near the top of that conference. Yes, the Pac12 sucked it up in the tournament this year, but I'm sure if you go back and look there have been similar years for the Big 10, ACC, etc. If the roles were reversed and BYU was in a big conference and Utah was independent, I wouldn't have a problem saying that playing BYU and having that chance to have a big win, would be 100% beneficial to our season. In other words, we would NEED BYU more than they needed us at that point. A loss to an independent school hurts more than an in conference loss to another ranked team. That's just how it is in the rankings. 
Don't get me wrong, I love the rivalry as much as the next guy. But I hate seeing those people who are so wrapped up in it that they just annoying about it all. 
Some of my best friends are BYU fans and I really try hard to be reasonable about it all. Keeping friends is more important than some rivalry.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm a Ute fan.
I don't like what has happened to our image since moving to the PAC12. 
I don't like that Emery took a cheap shot during the Ute game.
I don't like the way Coach K reacted to the cheap shot by Emery. That was just as bad.
I don't like that Coach K cancelled the annual BYU game.
I think the Utes had a good season, and finished about where they should have. Gonzaga was clearly a better team. As is Oregon. The Utes were pretty good, but had significant weaknesses that some teams were able to expose (Wichita?).

I enjoy seeing BYU succeed and represent our state.
I hope BYU wins the NIT.
I hope Emery grows up some day and learns to keep his mouth shut and his hands to himself.

It kills me that we can hear how horrible Ute fans are all the time -- my in-laws tell me all the time how horrible Ute fans are and that they would (emphatically) NEVER support the Utes. And then we hear Emery talk about how he hates the Utes and would always root for an opposing team to beat them.

That's sad. Because I'm a Ute fan. And I'm sitting here trying my very best to _want_ BYU to win. And yet 1 single fool of a point guard keeps trying to screw that up for me.

How am I supposed to root for BYU with that jerk on their team?
I guess it's a good thing that they have other players on their team like Kaufusi and Collinsworth. So I, in my Ute red, will keep supporting BYU in their quest for an NIT championship. And I'll just keep my mouth shut when all the BYU fans tell me how horrible of fans we are. Go BYU.

Go Alex Smith.
send Emery to the same place as Kaepernick.
Has anyone seen Rafael Araujo?


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## bekins24 (Sep 22, 2015)

Well said PBH.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I haven't seen any antics from Emery since the punch. Am I missing something? 

I'm a firm believer that many of us react at one point in our lives or another in a stupid way. We all do, or say something that is contrary to what we want to say or do. Sometimes it is brought on in the heat of battle or an incident where we feel wronged, lied to, or cheated in our lives. It even happens on these boards. 

I think the real sad thing is when we hold that against someone or even against ourselves and that is what we become known for. We could spend our whole lives trying to be better, to make up for it, to change our reputation, and often find we can't.

I think it is so cool when I read a story of someone who was hurt by someone else (even stories where a family member was killed by negligence or accident) and read where they are forgiven by the person or families that were hurt. I've often wondered how I would react in such a situation and realize that my first initial reaction would be one of hate. I'm working on that and trying to be better. In some regards I think I'm getting there, but still have such a long way to go.

I did want to take a jab at the Utes when they were beat by Gonzaga. I apologize for that. I will try to be better at not relishing in the misfortunes and hurt that others may feel.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

High -- Emery was on KUTV News after the Utes lost to Gonzaga. He mentioned he was rooting for Gonzaga, which is completely understandable coming from a fellow WCC member. He then went on to say, "...and I'm going to cheer for 100-percent and whoever's, I mean--playing Utah. I'm going to cheer for the opposite."
http://kutv.com/sports/talkin-sports/byu-gearing-up-nit-quarterfinals-emery-takes-jab-at-utes

I normally would expect this from any rivalry. But in the case of Utah vs. BYU, especially when you have been at the very center of a controversy, you really should be smart enough to know when to keep your mouth shut. Emery needs to do just that at this point: keep his mouth shut.

Have any Ute players said anything about hoping BYU loses in the NIT? I sure haven't heard any...
But I think this is typical of BYU. Ask any BYU fan what they think of guys like Alex Smith, Andrew Bogut, Keith Van Horn, Eric Weddle, or even Andrew Miller. Every one of those fans will say the same thing: "he is / was over rated". Yet, ask a Ute what he thinks about Ziggy and they all say the same thing: "what an animal!"

I'm excited to see Sataki take the helm next year. It's fun to see him in the student section mixing it up and developing some ties with the students. Smart guy. Can't wait to see what he can bring to the Cougars.

It was nice to watch BYU beat Creighton last night. Collinsworth is sure fun to watch. What an example of a hard working player he is. He excels at doing his job. He acts like he's done it before. Great player.

To top it all off -- I'm wearing my SUU Thunderbirds hoodie today. I'll be cheering them next week at regionals when the Flippin' Birds head to the Huntsman Center for regionals against the Utes (BOO!) and UCLA. Go T-Birds!!


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## Rspeters (Apr 4, 2013)

PBH said:


> Ask any BYU fan what they think of guys like Alex Smith, Andrew Bogut, Keith Van Horn, Eric Weddle, or even Andrew Miller. Every one of those fans will say the same thing: "he is / was over rated".


Wow this is a great example of a negative (and inaccurate) blanket statement about BYU fans coming from a Ute fan in a failed attempt at coming across as a reasonable person.

I'm a big BYU fan and I root for Alex Smith, and the others you mentioned, to do well. I know lots of other BYU fans who root for him too.

I tend to think the majority of BYU fans and Utah fans wish the best for any players from a Utah school that make it to the next level. Are there some extreme BYU fans that would never support a Ute? Yes. Are there just as many Ute fans that would never support a BYU player? Yes.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Rspeters said:


> Are there some extreme BYU fans that would never support a Ute? Yes. Are there just as many Ute fans that would never support a BYU player? Yes.


I would have to agree with this. Neither side has a monopoly on this behavior and sadly, it seems to be getting worse. Just look at any newspaper comment section about the "Jimmer". You will invariably see Ute fans yucking it up that he got cut again right along with the cougarfans claiming he needs just one more chance to be the next Steph Curry.

For me, the toxicity of the rivalry has sucked all the joy out of the rivalry itself. It is no longer even about winning the game anymore, but about shutting up the obnoxious opposing fans on message boards and sports radio. Living in Happy Valley, I have lots of cougarfans as friends and always have. It used to be fun to go back and forth about the games. Now I just don't even try to bring it up. The rivalry seems to now turn good people into jerks and I will not miss it a bit if they don't play anymore.

Finally, I apologize for being a bit snarky to HND on the first post and hope he has a bevy of nice hatches to fish where he's at. If not, the Lower had BWO's to spare last week. Come on down.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

IMO it is only a game that is played by boys!


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

If its any consolation to Ute fans, University of Utah women's lacrosse* DID* beat Gonzaga 8 to 7 at the Santa Barbara tournament a couple weeks ago. As an Aggie alum with a daughter playing for the Utes, that was the only game that really mattered.....


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

http://i.turner.ncaa.com/game/basketball-women/d1/2016/03/21/utah-gonzaga

Women get the win in basketball too.


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