# A big cat



## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Not sure on sizes for cougars but this cat seams to me to be a very mature Tom. what do you experts think?. A beautiful animal no doubt The problem is he is hanging out way to close to the cabin where the kids and dogs are around. Keeping me on my guard


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

I don't get why cougars get special treatment anywhere. They each kill two dozen or more deer per year. Deer hunting is a cash business for most of the western states. So it makes no sense to let these predators roam.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Well Karl I agree to a degree I had some really nice bucks showing up until the Tom appears. So anyone want to run dogs or have a tag that they would like filled on private property.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

I'm not even sure that is a tom hazmat, and if it is, it's just a young one. I can generally tell gender just by looking at it's head, but I need a better view. A mature tom is going to be more filled out and have a pumpkin shaped head on it.

Lions are also nomadic by nature, toms in particular. They can be here today and miles away tomorrow, so it could be anywhere come lion season. I've learned a thing or two about the critters in my years as a houndsman.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Just out of curiosity does Utah law allow someone to kill a lion in self defense. For example in LA it's ok to kill a gator that you feel is threatening your family if danger is imminent.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Just out of curiosity does Utah law allow someone to kill a lion in self defense. For example in LA it's ok to kill a gator that you feel is threatening your family if danger is imminent.


 Yup, though it's often abused IMO. Seems that lions are more apt to attack armed hunters that any other group out there......-Ov-


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks kevin I will try to get better pics on here later. The problem is this is one of 4 cats that has been spotted around lately. They are definitely thriving in the areaMaybe A Little TO well. And I know the cabin is in the hills so it's their area but seams like they are starting to get a little braver and braver.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

LostLouisianian said:


> Just out of curiosity does Utah law allow someone to kill a lion in self defense. For example in LA it's ok to kill a gator that you feel is threatening your family if danger is imminent.


It is a poaching issue, whether you are in Utah where expensive tags are required to be drawn, or in California where hunting lions has been illegal for over 20 years.

I would suggest treating a lion like a bear -- shoot in the gravel in front of the animal to kick dirt and rocks into its face. This should scare it away, between the sting of the gravel and the report of the gunshot. If you do this and the lion or bear does not retreat, then I would next go for a mouth shot. This would at least prove its mouth was gaping at you when you shot it. Takes pretty good accuracy though.

Of course if the animal charges you then you will be lucky to shoot it anywhere. In that case you will end up with plenty of mauling wounds and there will be no doubt you were attacked.

This is why you should also always carry a big knife or hatchet with you in lion or bear country.

My dad taught me never to go anywhere without a knife, whether in 2 legged or 4 legged predator country.

Yet another good idea is to carry a shotgun with 00-buckshot and slugs alternated in the shell cylinder. But that's a lot of extra weight. Even so, in grizzly country I would definitely carry one. In lion country not so sure I would. But in lion country I would always carry some kind of firearm AND a knife.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Kevin D said:


> Yup, though it's often abused IMO. Seems that lions are more apt to attack armed hunters that any other group out there......-Ov-


Thanks Kevin....a few years ago a warning went out in our neighborhood on South Mountain that a lion was spotted in the neighborhood. We had windows at ground level in the back but the yard had a 6' wooden fence. I was working from home at the time so I got my 12 gauge and removed the plug and put in 4 buckshot and one slug, the slug being the last round to fire. Luckily no cat came into our yard. I would have tried to scare it off with a blast but was ready to take it out if necessary.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

I guess I've been around lions enough that they really don't scare me. Somebody took this picture of me a few years back as I was trying to leash up my dogs.










Lions in reality are pretty timid creatures, if you show aggression towards them it's in their DNA to retreat. This is why even a 200 lbs tom will routinely run from a single 50 lbs hound. If you encounter a lion, make yourself big and run towards it, I'll guarantee that it'll turn tail and run (I won't make the same guarantee on bears though, I've seen one or two of those take offense).

As a houndsman in Utah, you are prohibited by law to carry any type of weapon while pursuing bear or lion unless you possess a kill tag, and since I rarely have one, I'm almost always unarmed in the hills. Other than the occasional ornery moose, I've never felt threatened by any wildlife (or person) I've encountered out there in the hills where I thought my life was endangered. So all this talk of guns, knives, and axes to protect yourself from all the dangerous creatures skulking about borders on paranoia to me.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Kevin D said:


> I guess I've been around lions enough that they really don't scare me. Somebody took this picture of me a few years back as I was trying to leash up my dogs.
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That! Is one of the coolest pictures I have seen in some time!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Kevin D said:


> I guess I've been around lions enough that they really don't scare me. Somebody took this picture of me a few years back as I was trying to leash up my dogs.
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Kevin, thanks for the insight and knowledge. I honestly had no idea they were so timid and easily forced to retreat. I thought just the opposite about them. I am going to share this knowledge with my family who frequent the out of doors.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Nice pic here is another trail cam pic.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Alot of predators this year


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Looks like you have an established bait site that is drawing the critters in close to your cabin. 

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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Water troughs for the horses nothing as far as bait that a predator would be interested in


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## EricH (May 3, 2014)

Kevin D said:


> I guess I've been around lions enough that they really don't scare me. Somebody took this picture of me a few years back as I was trying to leash up my dogs.
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I agree and would say bears are pretty timid also unless you do one of three things. Mess with its babies, surprise it or mess with its food. I spent a lot of years in Alaska with really big bears around. The best way to avoid an encounter is to have a tag.

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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Kevin D said:


> So all this talk of guns, knives, and axes to protect yourself from all the dangerous .......... skulking about borders on paranoia to me.


Me too. But that's just me. :|


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I've done this a few 100 times........


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I wouldn't be so concerned about a cat eating deer when things like this lurk: 
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/12/02/ravenous-14-foot-python-caught-with-3-deer-in-its-gut.html


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Bax* said:


> I wouldn't be so concerned about a cat eating deer when things like this lurk:
> http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/12/02/ravenous-14-foot-python-caught-with-3-deer-in-its-gut.html


That is one big snake


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