# Rifle suggestions for Black Bear



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Planning to hunt Black Bears in Idaho next spring. I have been planning to use my 7mm Rem Mag but will probably take my bow along as well.

A friend of mine who will also be hunting is thinking he needs to get a new rifle as he is losing confidence in his 30-06 after a recent miss and an incident where the bullet performed "strangely" on a doe Mule Deer. The rifle shoots great, as does he but he insists that the bullets are not doing what he feels they should.

The specifics of this hunt are unknown as of now. It may involve hunting over bait, spot and stalk or even hounds. That being said...a shorter barrel would be nice in a blind or stand, spot and stalk shots would likely be under 300yds (I assume), and obviously a treed bear involves a pretty close shot.

So, what do the UWN minds think about my 7mm and it's effectiveness using an accurate handload of 160gr Accubond for this and what are your thoughts regarding bullet selection for my friend's .06? He has been using a 165gr GMX factory load. I have a load his rifle likes using a 165gr Accubond but it is slower than the Superformance load he has been shooting.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

As a note..

I have been trying to convince him that he doesn't need a new rifle. I told him I could find a load for him using a heavier bullet for this hunt or that he could try the 165gr AB load I found for him last year but he'd have to sacrifice some speed.

He probably just wants a new rifle and there is nothing wrong with that but am I wrong in insisting that it is not necessary? I'm not sure what other caliber (s) would be better suited for Deer, Elk and Bears in comparison to his .06.


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## Bradonifia (Feb 12, 2019)

The 30-06 should be sufficient in my opinion. I think you're right that your buddy just wants a new gun. 🙂 He's bored.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 or 444.


-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PS:



KineKilla said:


> So, what do the UWN minds think about my 7mm and it's effectiveness using an accurate handload of 160gr Accubond for this


I shoot 160s out of my 7STW, the big brother to the 7Mag. They work great at 3200fps for elk and deer. For bears though, I would opt for a stouter bullet to smash bone, I want a bullet that would penetrate a bear from any angle. I've used Swift A-Frames to great success out of the STW.



> ... and what are your thoughts regarding bullet selection for my friend's .06? He has been using a 165gr GMX factory load.


I hate... hate hate hate full copper bullets. I've had them not open up on a close shot out of the 7STW (3640fps... at 40 yards).



> I have a load his rifle likes using a 165gr Accubond but it is slower than the Superformance load he has been shooting.


Who gives a crap about a small difference in speed if the accuracy is off or the bullet isn't performing well. Speed should be the last thing a person worries about. I'll bet the speed difference you mention is less than 150fps... completely irrelevant.

-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Did I mention that my 7mm wears a Leupold CDS with a custom turret that was made for the 160gr AB? Not saying that I couldn't find a different load and make the adjustments in my head or tape a bullet drop chart to my stock but it isn't ideal.

My other options without getting a new rifle are 270 WIN, 243, 45 Long Colt, .204 and .223. I have always wanted a 30-30 as well but haven't yet bought one and was hoping to get a muzzleloader before I bought a new centerfire rifle.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

DallanC said:


> Who gives a crap about a small difference in speed if the accuracy is off or the bullet isn't performing well. Speed should be the last thing a person worries about. I'll bet the speed difference you mention is less than 150fps... completely irrelevant.
> 
> -DallanC


I agree with most of what you are saying but when bullet manufacturers list their projectiles' effectiveness by fps only....that is what I have to go off of when calculating it's effective range. So in that case...speed does matter.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I know this isn't the answer you're probably looking for, but for years and years people killed animals with a rock which was tied to a stick, flipped from another stick. 

I think your friend wants a new gun - his 'issue' with losing confidence in the ol' 30-06 seems to be more of an issue with the Indian and not the arrow.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It will be interesting in the outcome of this. 

Next year he'll loose confidence in his new rifle and scope and want to get another rifle. Which isn't all bad. 

Perhaps you need to talk to him about bullet placement if the bullet didn't perform like it should of on that doe that he shot. Also ask him what he expected out of the bullet. 

But then he could always pick up a .375 H&H. Or even something larger.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't have much to say about what the best caliber for bears is, but my next rifle is going to be a Tikka T3 Hunter in 300 Win mag......


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

As mentioned, I don’t believe the rifle is the problem. In the case of the doe, it wasn’t the shooter either.

He shot her quartering away, in the 2nd rib. The bullet passed through the off side rib cage then made an almost 90 degree turn and came out in front of the off shoulder heading forward. She died quickly but it was quite strange how the bullet made a sharp turn when it should have easily passed right through the off side hide.

He calls it the Kennedy bullet.

I’m all for buying a new rifle, lord knows I have more than my share and more than I realistically need. I was just wondering if I was trying to convince him that a new one wasn’t needed while in fact a 30-06 or even my 7mm are poor choices for this application.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Just about any caliber from a .243 on up is good black bear medicine. 

That is provided that the correct bullet and bullet placement is practiced. 

I hit a black bear at 300 yards with my .340 Weatherby and that bear went 100 yards. Was it the bullet, rifle, me, or did he just decide to travel after being shot?


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

The best caliber for bear is the one you can shoot accurately without flinching. Bullets?... penetration is important.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Critter said:


> Just about any caliber from a .243 on up is good black bear medicine.


.243... an absolutely magical caliber! Why, I once shot...... 


Critter said:


> That is provided that the correct bullet and bullet placement is practiced.


Placement is everything


Critter said:


> I hit a black bear at 300 yards with my .340 Weatherby and that bear went 100 yards. Was it the bullet, rifle, me, or did he just decide to travel after being shot?


 He hadn't completed his bucket list. Can you blame him?


longbow said:


> The best caliber for bear is the one you can shoot accurately without flinching. Bullets?... penetration is important.


A 300Gr atlatl dart is my choice!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> He shot her quartering away, in the 2nd rib. The bullet passed through the off side rib cage then made an almost 90 degree turn and came out in front of the off shoulder heading forward. She died quickly but it was quite strange how the bullet made a sharp turn when it should have easily passed right through the off side hide.


I had a 240gr XTP bullet out of my muzzleloader do something that at least looked similar to what you are describing.

But what really happened is on entry hitting the rear rib on a quartering away shot, the bullet split in two... the only time I've ever seen this. The larger portion with the most mass and base traveled down along the ribs stopping at the neck under the hide. The other part traveled further inside the body cavity, through the vitals stopping against the ribs where it meets the neck, just past the heart.

It *looked* like the bullet did some weird angle changes, but in reality, it split into two pieces each of which continued relatively along the line of sight. I still have the larger portion sitting on a shelf.

I would hazard a guess your friends bullet shed some petals and those petals went off in weird directions making it look like the original bullet followed a rather crazy path.

-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Quite possibly so. It is the weirdest bullet injury I've been witness to so far in my short hunting career, effective but strange.

But anyways....is a 7mm and/or a 30-06 as good as any other (granted you are using a stout, bonded bullet) or are there other calibers that would be more recommended for the 3 scenarios I listed in the OP? 

I'm thinking the long barrel on my 7mm may prove awkward in a tree stand or ground blind, would be quite good at distances considering I am a good shot with it and may very well be overkill for a close tree shot or more than a person would comfortably want to pack around while chasing hounds.

Same stuff for the .06....

Heaviest bullet I've seen for the 7mm is a 175 and heaviest for an .06 is 220gr. Both would limit distances but would likely still be effective at ranges up to 300yds or so.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

A bear hit in the right place with a quality bullet from either a 30-06 or a 7mm will be dead. They both have the energy and ability to make clean kills.

One reason I originally recommended the 45-70 or 444 Marlin guide gun is its a shorter length "brush gun" which works very well in bear country. Both have plenty of power out to several hundred yards and launch bullets so large they have a bigger diameter than fully expanded 7mm bullets... and then get even bigger on contact.

The other reason I recommended the guide gun is I've always wanted one... if I ever draw a bear tag in Utah I'm getting the buy off from the wife to get either the Marlin, or a Ruger #1 in 45-70 (I absolutely love Ruger #1's and with their super strong actions you can really really run hot +P 45-70 Tank killers). 

People kill lots of bears with 270s... 3006 / 7RM have more power than that. Just use a quality bullet and put'em in the boiler room.

-DallanC


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

DallanC.... How does a 35-Rem fair as a brush cartridge? I have a heard a few old timers talk about how they brought down a charging bear and even a furious/rabid sheep dog that charged my dad's friend while he was squatting one under a tree. I think Marlin makes a lever action in 35 Rem. Should be a good bear cartridge if your on a stand or in a blind.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Sorry, I dont have any experience with the 35 Rem. I've heard its a good oldschool brush caliber... lengthwise, its like a 30-30 sized up for a 35cal bullet. I dont doubt it would kill a bear though. 



The only negative I can think of is bullet selection in factory ammo might limit you... I dont know if there are many premium bullet offereings in 35 rem. If you reload its a moot point. 



-DallanC


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Black bears aren't hard to kill - stick a bullet in the boiler room and they'll go down. 

I took both of these WY black bears with my 270 WSM and a 140 Accubond. Each only went 30 yards or so. Fun fact: Shot them one year apart in the same canyon. 

30-06 or 7mm would be more than enough.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

tell your friend go to sportsman's and get at tikka superlite in 300 win mag. he'll feel better about himself and have plenty of gun. his shoulder may not like it much but it'll do the trick on any black bear and it has a smooth action w/ crisp trigger. 

there's probably nothing wrong with his current rifle but confidence is everything with the mental aspect of hunting and it's clear he's ready to buy a new gun.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

He said he wants a 300 mag. Something with a Walnut stock to add some variety to the safe.

I told him that an X-Bolt White Gold Medallion would fit the bill but it might be too pretty to go beat up.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> I hate... hate hate hate full copper bullets. I've had them not open up on a close shot out of the 7STW (3640fps... at 40 yards).


Yep, me too, seen way too many of them "fail".

KineKilla - my daughter shot her oryx last year in Dec at 300 yds with a .270 hurling a 150 gr AB. The shot was frontal and she hit it in the neck, destroying it with the bullet continuing on into the the chest cavity.

I would imagine an '.06 hurling an AB of moderate grain weight would be sufficient for a black bear at distances under 300.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

I took a pretty large black bear off the LaSal unit 4 years ago in the fall spot and stalk hunt with a 7mm. 

It did the job but it left me wondering. 

I hit it 3 times with a 175 grain Federal Premium round. All three shots were right behind the front left shoulder. The bear dropped on the first shot, and seemed dead. After about 10-15 seconds it got back up and was roaring at me from about 50 yards. So I hit it again and it continued roaring at me. I hit it a 3rd time and it ran down into some brush where it died. When caping it out, all three rounds hit right through the boiler maker. It's heart was all but gone. I recovered all three rounds in the fat of the other side of the cape. Two mushroomed like they were supposed to, the other kind of fragmented. I think the 7mm was fine, but late in the year when the bear had it's fat reserves, it made me wonder if it were enough. In reality it was more than enough, it was just one tough critter. 

I have since switched to a 300 WSM and have loved shooting it. But it wasn't because I felt the 7mm was inadequate.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I shot this bear last year with a 06. 180 gr went though front shoulder ended up under the hide at the opposite rear ham. Not even a step just rolled over








I'll be heading back this year taking the ol' 30-06 again. Going back to 165 gr bullet though 180's seemed a bit much


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

KineKilla said:


> He said he wants a 300 mag. Something with a Walnut stock to add some variety to the safe.
> 
> I told him that an X-Bolt White Gold Medallion would fit the bill but it might be too pretty to go beat up.


The Tikka T3 Hunter is wood. ;-)


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have a number of wood stocked rifles and the hardest thing to look at is the first scratch or good dent in it. After that they just add character. 

However there is something to be said for a composet or fiberglass stock. You don't have to worry about dents, dings, scratches, or usually weather. They don't swell up when wet and only require a quick wipe down with a rag if they do get wet until it is time to put them away. My last 3 rifles all have these type of stocks. 

Don't get me wrong I love the look of that nice wood, but I just hate that first bit of damage that is done to them.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

im going to Idaho in a couple months for bear. im taking .375 ruger loaded with 235 gr hotcors. mostly because I know itll hit about dead on at 300 yds and I just mounted a scope on my .35 whelen but haven't had time to get it sighted in. may take .338 federal as a back up.


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