# Proposed changes for turkeys...



## toasty (May 15, 2008)

A couple changes proposed for turkey hunting. Some good, some stupid imo.

Link:
https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/2191-more-chances-to-take-a-turkey.html

The good:
- No minimum shotgun gauge and shot size. Used to be restricted to 28ga with #7s. With the development TSS and other high density shot types, this is long overdue and I will be one of the first to take a turkey with a .410 using TSS #9s which is superior to any lead 12ga load made.

- They are proposing 3 permits for turkeys in the fall. This is good and bad in my opinion. I would much rather see 2 tags for spring turkeys before any fall hunts, however, I get that they are doing this hunt to remove problem turkeys and hunting 3 birds is better than hunting 1. The problem with fall turkeys is the majority are on private land and you at the mercy of the landowner. The turkeys in the areas I hunt are getting smarter and not coming back to the same areas they were hunted. Getting a lot harder to kill a turkey in the fall for me.

The bad:
Allowing rimfire for fall turkeys. I hate this and it is going to get someone killed. I can see landowners shutting down access when they realize someone can use a 17hmr on their property. If the majority of the hunts were on vast tracks of public land, this is still stupid, but not as much of a safety concern. On these little parcels of private property, this is a huge safety concern. I hope this gets rejected.

Fall turkey hunts are fun, however, spring turkey hunts are 10x more fun than fall hunts. I would like to see a compromise, 2 spring male turkeys and up to 2 fall turkeys?


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

toasty said:


> The problem with fall turkeys is the majority are on private land and you at the mercy of the landowner.


Very true. I'd say this last fall season, the majority of units open were on private property. Where I went, I had very limited windows of opportunity and was not able to chase them during most the day. Another big problem is that in some areas, the Turkey's are actually in town. You can't hunt them when their flocked up on someones front yard. I don't know if they can try relocating some turkey's, but it seems to me issuing more tags isn't going to solve very many nuisance issues.



> Allowing rimfire for fall turkeys


Someone at DWR must have gotten a visit from "The Good Idea Fairy". I don't think they would even consider this if they did not think Turkey's a nuisance animal in the fall. It's an incredibly bad idea.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Someone at DWR must have gotten a visit from "The Good Idea Fairy". I don't think they would even consider this if they did not think Turkey's a nuisance animal in the fall. It's an incredibly bad idea.


They got the idea from Wyoming, who now allows centerfire rifles for turkey hunting. Grab the old ThirdyOaughSix and go bag a tom!

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

opcorn:

I'm just waiting for the first person to post a 1000 yard turkey kill video.


-DallanC


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

DallanC said:


> opcorn:
> 
> I'm just waiting for the first person to post a 1000 yard turkey kill video.
> 
> -DallanC


No video but I've seen one killed with a 6.5x47 at 1015! They are harder to hit at that distance than you would think. Dang things never sit still for very long


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Sounds to me, the DWR is trying to do to the same thing to Turkey Hunting as they did to Elk hunting........... Spend time and resources building up a good population, and then kill them off within 5 years. :shock:


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

taxidermist said:


> Sounds to me, the DWR is trying to do to the same thing to Turkey Hunting as they did to Elk hunting........... Spend time and resources building up a good population, and then kill them off within 5 years. :shock:


You couldn't kill it off even if you wanted too. Turkeys are pretty hard to kill for a lot of guys. If you don't know what you're doing, your odds of filling tags go way down after opening day and they get a tune up. Elk are bigger, easier to see, easier to sneak up on and IMO easier to kill. There's a few popular turkey areas around that state that might get shot out pretty hard, but killing them off like they have done the elk would take a lot more effort and time


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Get rid of LE tags...


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

toasty said:


> A couple changes proposed for turkey hunting. Some good, some stupid imo.
> 
> Link:
> https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/2191-more-chances-to-take-a-turkey.html
> ...


It is legal to use rim fires and we do not have an issue . Most are taken on private land in eastern Wyoming.

I disagree with the idea there is a huge safety concern allowing rim fire rifles

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Serious question:

When does it become wanton destruction of wildlife when using rimfire / centerfire rifles for turkeys? If I hit one with a .22-250 and a 40gr hollow point, you would be sweeping it up with a broom, very very little left to eat. If the gun is legal, and the tag is legal for the season... is there a requirement to kill it WITHOUT destroying a certain percentage of meat?

I was kind of joking about the 1000yrd turkey shot, but apparently its already a thing. To pull that off you need a fairly serious centerfire rifle round. I guess a FMJ would kill a turkey with minimal meat damage, but most procs state FMJs arent legal ammunition to hunt with.

Is there a line here, and if so what is it?


-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I read the reply about that 1000+ yard turkey shot and the first thing that came to mind was that I hoped the person that shot it needed a lot of feathers because there won't be any meat left. It is too bad that there are those out there that feel that they need to do something like that to prove something. Now if they head shot it at that range I would be impressed, they got a turkey with a very long and challenging shot and some good meat.

I personally believe that anyone taking a turkey with a rim fire should only take a head shot. No meat damaged and a dead turkey. It is the same with any upland game bird with a high powered rifle or even a rim fire, head shots only. Even the grouse that I usually get with a shotgun are head shot, and yes I ground pound them even with a shotgun. Perhaps this is a opening in Utah to where other birds can be hunted with either a center fire rifle, rim fire, pellet gun, or a sling shot. Colorado allows all the above weapons and I have never heard of any safety concerns about it.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

May not be a safety concern...but what about being sporting? Whats the sense? Why does anyone need to shoot a turkey at extended ranges? What happened to being sporting and give the animal more respect then blasting a turkey from 100's yards away. 

Most guys who have never sat down and actually called a turkey into 10 yards, don't know what their missing. Its called hunting for ****s sake....


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

gdog said:


> Get rid of LE tags...


The only thing that will do is put more pressure on the birds all at once making it harder to kill turkeys


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

gdog is correct when it comes to giving the critter a sporting chance! IMO, the only folks in the woods trying to shoot a Turkey with a rifle is the individual that is lazy, and has no idea of how to call, or hunt Turkeys. 

Next thing you know, a Hellfire Missal will be allowed for Deer hunting.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

JDAMs, from orbit. Its the only way to be sure 8)






-DallanC


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Well... that escalated quickly.

The way I see it, the fall hunt is designed to remove excess birds from problem areas. If a rimfire rifle can help hunters better achieve that goal, I don't see what the problem is.

I guess I just don't see what the safety concern is here. Standard gun safety applies, whether you're hunting with a rifle or shotgun - if you don't have a safe backstop, don't pull the trigger. And if a landowner doesn't feel comfortable with it, he can simply restrict hunters on his property to shotguns only.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The problem that I have found with the fall hunts that I have looked at just about all the turkeys are on private property where the owners don't want them shot. They think that they are cute. 

It is too bad that they don't let out a few more permits and allow us to hunt them during the general deer hunt as they are migrating down to the private. I know that for the last dozen or years I would of been able to of harvested one for the dutch oven during the deer hunt.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Critter said:


> I read the reply about that 1000+ yard turkey shot and the first thing that came to mind was that I hoped the person that shot it needed a lot of feathers because there won't be any meat left. It is too bad that there are those out there that feel that they need to do something like that to prove something. Now if they head shot it at that range I would be impressed, they got a turkey with a very long and challenging shot and some good meat


1. It's legal to use a centerfire rifle where the bird was killed. 2. You are entitled to your opinion, but it's just that. 3. Your permission is not needed for people to shoot turkeys with rifles in several states. It's pretty common for turkeys to be shot in the fall with rifles where it's legal. Texas is one of them, happens every day.

Allowing only rim fire rifles to hunt turkeys is a dumb idea. You're gonna get a lot more wounded birds because of it


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

sheepassassin said:


> 1. It's legal to use a centerfire rifle where the bird was killed. 2. You are entitled to your opinion, but it's just that. 3. Your permission is not needed for people to shoot turkeys with rifles in several states. It's pretty common for turkeys to be shot in the fall with rifles where it's legal. Texas is one of them, happens every day.
> 
> Allowing only rim fire rifles to hunt turkeys is a dumb idea. You're gonna get a lot more wounded birds because of it


Is it legal to quite possibly shoot a turkey with a high power rifle and waste most if not all of the meat? I know dang well that at 1000 yards it wasn't a head shot. That is what I was replying to.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Personally, I think allowing rifles in any caliber is just plain flat out unsporting. Weren't these birds nearly wiped out a few decades ago? If financially possible, I'd rather see problem birds rellocated, to say, the central region. The birds are doing well in the south, but up north, I'd dare say not so much.

Aside from that, I work too **** hard to tag a turkey just too see them plunked down like a varmint.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Personally, I think allowing rifles in any caliber is just plain flat out unsporting. Weren't these birds nearly wiped out a few decades ago? If financially possible, I'd rather see problem birds rellocated, to say, the central region. The birds are doing well in the south, but up north, I'd dare say not so much..


They've been trapping the hell out of them in the central and sending them off to other areas. They took virtually the whole flock I got my tom out of a while back, sent them off to who knows where. I havent seen a turkey in that drainage since.

-DallanC


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

goosefreak said:


> The only thing that will do is put more pressure on the birds all at once making it harder to kill turkeys


...so? You mean hunting is suppose to be easy? Get a special tag and slam dunk dead critter in truck? Figure out how to hunt them correctly and you'll get opportunities every year...during the OTC season.


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## macanudo (Feb 20, 2015)

Wait until you have some motion decoys set up and someone takes a shot at them from 1000 yds off. That will make you wet your pants.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

gdog said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing that will do is put more pressure on the birds all at once making it harder to kill turkeys
> ...


I've killed a Tom every year since I've been hunting them 6 years ago. Called into my lap.
I get into the same action during the GS as I do the LE.

Sometimes I prefer the LE and other times I prefer the GS tags but, I still find success either way.
I know what I'm doing, no question about that.

I have never understood why Utahns always want to compile every hunt into 1 big fiasco..

I see 3-6 guys on LE hunts and I see the same on GS hunts. So by merging the 2 hunts together I will see the pressure double or even triple.. it's as simple as that

I never mentioned the word easy.. that's all you


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

macanudo said:


> Wait until you have some motion decoys set up and someone takes a shot at them from 1000 yds off. That will make you wet your pants.


These guys had decoys out in front of them and had such an encounter, at much closer range....


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

goosefreak said:


> I see 3-6 guys on LE hunts and I see the same on GS hunts. So by merging the 2 hunts together I will see the pressure double or even triple.. it's as simple as that


They would have to give out about 8K LE tags for your hunting pressure to double. For 2017 they gave out 4,367 LE tags. "Easy"..yes, those were my words, but the harvest % is almost double for LE tags. Is this due to limited pressure, maybe hunting them earlier in the primetime of their breeding period or combination of both(?)

6 for 6 good work and good luck this spring!


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

gdog said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > I see 3-6 guys on LE hunts and I see the same on GS hunts. So by merging the 2 hunts together I will see the pressure double or even triple.. it's as simple as that
> ...


So are you saying to have a tag quota if the 2 seasons are merged?

Since GS is unlimited quota, you would have to have limited tags for their not to be added pressure.
I hunt a small area the can easily be over crowded.

When I'm the history of Utah has there been a decrease in hunting pressure when more tags are issued? Because that's what would happen with a merge, there would be more tags (people) for 1 season.
I don't think they would give you more time either. Probably do something like mid April to mid May.
I think it would only be a month like the GS already is( which it should be) cramming more people in a shorther amount of time.

I don't think there is anything special about the limited entry hunt. It's simply just an earlier hunt, I would dare say I've had hotter turkeys during the general season hunt.
What they need to do is rename it. Instead of "limited entry" they should call it early spring turkey hunt and late spring turkey hunt.

If I had my choose I would only hunt during the first week of May.

I put in for the infamous LE hunt every year and if I don't draw, I still get a GS tag and I still kill a bird. No worry in my mind regarding of the LE or GS.
All my family have tags of there own and everyone is happy, if some of is draw LE and others don't, we still get together as a family and hunt both hunts. (It's hard to fill 10 tags on 1 hunt)

I don't see anything wrong with they way it is so why fix something that is already working?


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Let me say a better way, there can still be the same amount of tags and the same amount of people hunting but, the difference is merging the two hunt. 

Same amount of tags and the same amount of people in 2 separate hunts means fewer people but, the same amount of tags and the same amount of people merged into one hunt equals more people altogether for one given hunt


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

goosefreak said:


> The only thing that will do is put more pressure on the birds all at once making it harder to kill turkeys


Yep. It'll be like grand central station in everybody's favorite spots on opening day.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

I think if they got rid of LE hunts, opening day would be more crowded, would be a circus like the deer hunt. However, after that, I think it would be just like a GS or LE tag as far as crowding is concerned. With the option of hunting for a full 6 weeks instead of 2 or 4, hunters would spread themselves out. I don't put in for LE tags, I have a better experience on the GS, but I would love to hunt both if I had the option. Put me in with those that think the LE hunt needs to go away.

If they really must keep the LE hunt, lets do what CO does for turkeys and if you draw a LE hunt, you can hunt that tag and a GS tag. They would get a lot more guys putting in for LE if they do that IMO and give the opportunity to shoot 2 birds in the spring.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You just have to remember that in Colorado that the LE tag is only good in that LE unit and those units can not be hunted with a GS tag so you would have to go to a GS area for that second bird. But the nice thing is that they run together and not separate dates. 

But I have never seen a lot of crowding in Colorado in the GS tag areas. Granted if you find a real popular area you will have a lot of hunters but most of the areas don't get hit that hard, especially after opening weekend.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

DallanC said:


> They've been trapping the hell out of them in the central and sending them off to other areas. They took virtually the whole flock I got my tom out of a while back, sent them off to who knows where. I havent seen a turkey in that drainage since.
> 
> -DallanC


I'll hold back on colorful expletives and just ask, if the birds aren't flocking up in a town or residential area, then why would they do that? Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong areas, but I've been putting down a lot of miles on my boots for the last 3 weekends, and I've seen about as many Hen's.

Last year about this time, I had a pretty good bead on 3 or 4 toms in some remote areas. This year? Nada.


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

I will like see the Jr hunt start the first week of April for the kids and make week long


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't know if using a rifle is a bad thing. I'm not remotely worried about injuries. Why would turkey hunting with a rifle be any more dangerous than hunting deer with a rifle? 

I actually ended up in the upland game section indirectly. I don't spend time thinking about upland game. I actually spent the better part of my life bird hunting and quite enjoy it. I don't do it now because the only legal forms of shooting birds is a ridiculous way to care for the the meat. I'm no longer interested in picking feathers out of my meat and biting into lead shot. Dove hunting should be done with a pellet gun not a 12 gauge. Grouse should be shot with a .22. Quail should be trapped. I don't know about turkeys. Maybe I'll try it out if I can use rim fire.


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

provider said:


> I don't know if using a rifle is a bad thing. I'm not remotely worried about injuries. Why would turkey hunting with a rifle be any more dangerous than hunting deer with a rifle?


No one deer hunts during rifle season hiding behind a buck decoy in camouflage.

But lots of folks turkey hunt hiding behind a turkey decoy in camouflage.


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