# I’m gonna do it!



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Never handled or shot a Muzzleloader before but I really like the multi-season tags.

I’m leaning towards a CVA Accura at this point. Mostly based on web reviews and price.

I’m skeptical of the Rem 700 Ultimate because I’ve heard that you need to load it full to get it to be accurate. Not sure how my shoulder is going to like 200gr of powder.

All of this depends on how the rifle feels in my hand and at my shoulder of course.

Thoughts?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> Never handled or shot a Muzzleloader before but I really like the multi-season tags.
> 
> I'm leaning towards a CVA Accura at this point. Mostly based on web reviews and price.


The CVA Accura V2 is a snazzy gun I'll admit, very popular among hunters.



> I'm skeptical of the Rem 700 Ultimate because I've heard that you need to load it full to get it to be accurate. Not sure how my shoulder is going to like 200gr of powder.


You don't need a full charge to increase accuracy, and with some projectiles / sabots a full charge will decrease accuracy. That said, it has pretty vicious recoil for sure. Alot of people shoot lower amounts but that negates the purpose of that particular rifle. If you are only going to shoot 120 or 150gr of powder, you really could use any muzzleloader, no sense spending a grand on a 700 Ultimate.

My particular deer load is a 240gr XTP over 90gr of Pyrodex, and a 300gr XTP over 120gr of Pyrodex for Elk. I did try Blackhorn this past year though... no complaints really... but it was just as dirty as pyrodex.

I still love the older Remington 700ML's, especially with the Badge Ridge Industries bolt kit. It completely eliminates blowby on the breech, which is the only real negative of that particular gun.



> All of this depends on how the rifle feels in my hand and at my shoulder of course.


Agreed... and for me, I love the feel of Remington 700 rifles (with Win M70s a close second). I'm happy Remington made a model 700 muzzleloader. We have two of them.

-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Thank you, I also have a umber of Model 700's and they are one of my very favorite rifles.

Any chance of muzzle braking a muzzleloader? Other than a huge cloud of nasty smoke going every direction but forward what would be the downside and has anyone ever done this or have personal experience with it?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Yes lots of companies can do brakes on a ML. I would never put a brake on any rifle personally due to the unbelievable increase in noise. I shoot comfortable amounts of powder and just get closer to the game. I the deer I shot this year was 30 yards. The one my son shot that evening was maybe 50 yards.


-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Fondled a few last night and found that the T/C Triumph gives me better sight alignment without having to smash my cheek into the stock.

The CVA is fine but it’s position when shouldering is not natural for me. Perhaps with some rings and a scope it would be but the cheek weld would still be a touch low.

They didn’t have any Rem 700 to try.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> They didn't have any Rem 700 to try.


Remington quit making the 700ML many years ago. The Ultimate is their new model but those are mucho $$$$. Dont even think about a Genesis, those are crap.

Lots of people are on the lookout for used 700MLs, they are still extremely desired, especially the Stainless Steel versions (more resistant to pitting than the blued). If you go that route, plan on the Badger Ridge Industries bolt kit to fix the blow back issue.

I'm still looking for another 700ML.

*PS: The "ultimate" muzzleloader has locking lugs on the bolt like the normal centerfire 700's, this makes it according to the BATF, the same classification as a firearm so it will require FFL transfer. Its not considered "curio" like virtually all other muzzleloaders.
*

-DallanC


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

If you are wanting a bolt style muzzleloader you can also look into the new CVA Paramount. Its about the same price as the UML but is a .45 capable of handling 150gr of blackhorn. Initial testing\review and published load velo's at max charge is pretty impressive.

It does weigh darn near 10lbs without a scope, but that should help with recoil and the stock looks like it could be good one. I haven't handled one personally, but as a CVA fan it does have a certain appeal based on reading about it, but there are a few things that have me hesistant to jump on that ship just yet.

I have a CVA Accura PR that I killed my bull with this year and absolutely fell in love with the gun over the summer as I shot it every week. The stock design helped minimize felt recoil with a .290gr bullet and 100gr BH209 charge, and it was easy to carry and shoulder. I'd recommend that gun to anyone.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I too have been looking at new muzzleloaders. I've considered both the CVA Accura and the RUM. But I've also been looking at the Knight Mountaineer.

The CVA Accura has a good reputation for accuracy -- which is why I want a new muzzy. My old Winchester can't hold a group, and I'm tired of it.

The RUM is marketed as the most accurate muzzy ever. It is heavy -- but no more heavy than that old Winchester I've been lugging around. The RUM also comes in a laminate stock. I'm a sucker for a laminate stock -- but the only option (gray) is ugly. The real bonus with the RUM, in my mind, is the primers / storage. What a novel concept.

the Knight Mountaineer has multiple laminate stock options -- and they are gorgeous. But what about performance? They claim MOA at 200 yards, which is good enough for me. I don't need a 500+ yard muzzy (RUM).

At this point, I'm leaning towards a Knight Mountaineer with a laminated nutmeg (straight) stock. Maybe a thumbhole. Maybe in green.


decisions, decisions....

If it makes any difference, I have some bonds from my grandparents that I have never cashed in. I've been waiting to find something to buy with the money that will last as long as they did -- and more. I figure a gun can be passed down. You know: "that gun you're holding? That was from great, grandpa...".


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PBH said:


> The CVA Accura has a good reputation for accuracy -- which is why I want a new muzzy. My old Winchester can't hold a group, and I'm tired of it.


Cant help you on the tired part, but if you've been shooting sabots exclusively out of the winchester, you might have plastic buildup which causes accuracy to degrade. Normal solvents wont remove plastic fouling. Try running some patches soaked in acetone down it, then wire brush, then more acetone.

-DallanC


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## 1trhall (Oct 18, 2017)

I have an Acurra V2 with the thumb hole stock and a couple buddies have them with the traditional stock. Never had a thumb hole before this one but I absolutely love it! I use cheek pads on all my other rifles for proper eye-scope alignment but no need for that on my acurra. It so naturally aligns and is super comfortable, don;t even have to think about it. Shoots MOA to 300 yards with 77 gr by weight of BH209 and Barnes 250 gr T-EZ. Have killed 3 elk and several deer with this load out to 250 yards.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

I went through the same decision making last year and ended up buying the RUM. I've loved it and have no complaints. The assumption that you have to load it full to be accurate is not true. Some great load info here:
http://www.randywakeman.com/Remington700UltimateMuzzleloaderLoads.htm


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## knight2 (Sep 29, 2018)

KineKilla said:


> Thank you, I also have a umber of Model 700's and they are one of my very favorite rifles.
> 
> Any chance of muzzle braking a muzzleloader? Other than a huge cloud of nasty smoke going every direction but forward what would be the downside and has anyone ever done this or have personal experience with it?


I run a muzzle brake on custom muzzleloader which is a savage .458. I wouldn't shoot it without a brake with the load I am using. I wear ear plugs when hunting and it's not optional with a brake.
You do not want a radial style. You want something that forces area to the side so you can still see through the smoke when you shot.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Ordered a CVA Accura V2 last night finally! I got the basic model with a 27” barrel in Stainless/Black.

I have already bought Barnes 250gr T-Ez projectiles, Triple Seven 50gr pellets, Winchester 209 primers and some breech plug grease.

My hope is that I can find a good load with these bullets and/or powder. I need to find some other pellets that will allow me to test loads in between the 50gr increments. I’m sure 777 has them, I just didn’t see them.

Thoughts? 
Sabots as bad for plastic fouling as some report?
777 pellets no good? Better choices?
250gr projectiles too light or heavy?

Good places to start load development? I was thinking of starting at 100gr because that seems logical.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I've got almost the same rifle and am going to start sighting it in tomorrow. 

However I plan on seeing if Black Horn 209 will work. I like loose powder just for the fact that you can tinker with it a little bit more. 

My plan is 100 grains by volume with the Barnes T-Ez 250 grain bullets. Since that is what I have on hand without ordering different bullets. It was interesting that all the data that they sent me with the rifle is about Powerbelts.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Accura V2 loves 100 to 110 grains of Blackhorn.

The Barnes TEZ are awesome in them. Personally I like the 290 because of elk AND deer hunting. It flies great and has almost zero drop at 200 it seems.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

A couple moths back I bought the CVA Accura V2 longrange. Tightest groups touching at 100 yards were found with blackhorn 110 grains by volume and hornady 250 sst. However i moved to Barnes tmz 290 grain bullets as id like one bullet for deer and elk. I know a 250 grain could do it but dont like chancing stuff. Im about 1 inch with the 290s at 100 yards. Not as tight as the ssts but I just feel better with Barnes. However and this is some concern. The Hornady sst and their sabbot loads super easy compared to the 290 barnes tmzs. Those 290s make you work hard to get them down. Ive heard the 250 tezs are way easier. Its easier getting the 290s down after first shot actually. Believe the greasy powder residue helps it.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

But id really try the blackhorn. To me way easier to clean. Alot better to tailor tight groups to your gun. They sell plastic quick loads to where you can pre pour your grains by volume into and add your bullet and primer so just as easy to reload. Plus ive read that blackhorn is not as affected to moisture as the pellets. Alot of guys will leave blackhorn in their rifles for several days and when fired no problems. But I have read the pellets do not like moisture and will break down which can affect that first shot. Again I read that and dont know if true but I can see that.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Aznative said:


> But id really try the blackhorn. To me way easier to clean. Alot better to tailor tight groups to your gun. They sell plastic quick loads to where you can pre pour your grains by volume into and add your bullet and primer so just as easy to reload. Plus ive read that blackhorn is not as affected to moisture as the pellets. Alot of guys will leave blackhorn in their rifles for several days and when fired no problems. But I have read the pellets do not like moisture and will break down which can affect that first shot. Again I read that and dont know if true but I can see that.


3,2,1 paging Dallen


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

What have you experienced Middlefork? As I said that is what I have read not sure if its accurate info. However being a reloader I just prefer powder. I guess everyones personal prefrence. Have you experienced different? Curious.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

middlefork said:


> 3,2,1 paging Dallen


LOLz 8)



Aznative said:


> But I have read the pellets do not like moisture and will break down which can affect that first shot. Again I read that and dont know if true but I can see that.


Seeing as Blackhorn 209 doesnt come in pellet form, I'm assuming you mean Pyrodex Pellets?

I havent tested with pellets, but I did alot of tests on the hydroscopic / moisture absorption with normal Pyrodex (RS and P). I cant imagine there is any difference in Pellets vs loose powder when it comes to moisture absorption and ignition issues.

To test, I used an old trashed Hawkin barrel that I would charge up and leave for extended amounts of time. The longest period I tested was over 9 months, for both high and low humidity periods. I detected no noticable difference in ignition times or burn rates.

I also tested waterproofing techniques with that same barrel and found I could completely submerge the barrel for 15min and have instant ignition when fired using old school trapper wax sealing techniques.

That was back before the big subdivisions all went in around me and ruined the shooting spot 5 min from my house. I still have that barrel, always meant to drill it out to .54cal and turn it into an approximate 28ga shotgun. I need to get around to that one of these days.

You will only have ignition issues if you hunt in rain and allow rain to enter your rifle.

-DallanC


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

No what I was saying is I read that blackhorn isnt affected as much as the pellets. Again just what I read when they were talking about leaving the gun loaded for a hunt for a couple days etc. But seems you have done a better study than they have.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I’ve read that the Blackhorn (while great for custom charge weights) is dirtier than other powders. Any truth to that?

I planned to hunt both Deer and Elk at reasonable distances +\- 150yds. is a 250gr bullet not enough?


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

I honestly cant say other than with my use of blackhorn after five shots I run a wet patch down. It comes up fairly dirty as I feel any muzzleloader would. I then rund a dry patch down and fairly clean when comes out. I always fire off a sole primer after to rid moisture. When I get home I simply open it up spray that foam cleaner in it, wait 45 minutes run a brush through several times then use several of those wet patches till clean and done. I do soak the breech plug in the cleaner they sell. However after soaking it I still run a 1/8 drill bit in the flash hole to make sure all the grit is out then use a nipple pic or torch tip through the other side. Ive put about 300 rounds through it this way and it still hits dead on.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> Ordered a CVA Accura V2 last night finally! I got the basic model with a 27" barrel in Stainless/Black.
> 
> I have already bought Barnes 250gr T-Ez projectiles, Triple Seven 50gr pellets, Winchester 209 primers and some breech plug grease.
> 
> ...


Good gun, my father in-law shoots that plain ol Accura V2 with the 27" barrel. I think the real difference in the accura to the optima is the stock. He shoots the Barnes 250 TMZ with 100gr of pyrodex and it shoots excellent groups out to 200 yards.

I shoot the 290gr TMZ but, I personally think the 250gr is plenty of bullet to kill any North American big game, your only talking a 40gr deviation.

With the 250gr and 100gr of T7, you'll probably be between 1800-1900 FPS which is good,

If you have trouble then I'd ditch every and pick up a black horn breech plug and shoot a 290 TMZ with 100gr by volume (using the BH measuring tubes) and BH powder..

BUT that's just my opinion, so please don't anybody ring my neck! It's already been good and rung today!!


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

And for bullet grain I have spoken to big muzzleload guys who say they only use a 250 grain for both elk and deer. They love the barnes 250 grain Tez. Some like the Hornady sst 250s as well. But most say stay away from powerbelts as they do not perform well at all.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Critter said:


> ...It was interesting that all the data that they sent me with the rifle is about Powerbelts.


It couldn't have anything to do with CVA and PowerBelts being owned by the same parent company.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> I've read that the Blackhorn (while great for custom charge weights) is dirtier than other powders. Any truth to that?


Yes, I posted pictures of fouled patches from a few shots of BH209 last year, you can search for them. I find it as filthy as other powders, its just not as corrosive or builds up as thick as say, pyrodex.

*I still find I have to swab between shots with BH209 for the tightest groups.
*



> I planned to hunt both Deer and Elk at reasonable distances +\- 150yds. is a 250gr bullet not enough?


A well constructed 250gr bullet will be fine on deer. I highly recommend a 300gr bullet for elk. I use 240gr XTPs for deer, 300gr XTPs for Elk. Never recovered a 300gr. I've recovered 3 of the 240s from diagonal shots after 24-30" of penetration.

-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Good info as usual Dallan, thank you.

Sounds like I’ll have a bit more of a load development phase than initially thought. It seems I will need to develop a load for deer and then a load for elk...or perhaps I’ll just shoot deer with the elk load.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I had a person ask me onetime why I wanted a complete pass through shot on a animal. He said that it shows that the bullet didn't expand all of it's energy inside of the animal and that I could go slower or smaller on my loadings. 

I know that the last bull elk that I shot I hit him 3 times with a 300 grain Thor bullet with two complete pass through shots and 1 lodging on the far side just outside of the ribs. That bullet broke ribs going in and broke more going out before it stopped just before the skin. On one of the other bullets my partner told me that I blew blood out of the elk like a exploding milk jug. So who know? 

I also believe that big and slow wins the race as far as elk are concerned but I wouldn't feel under loaded with a 250 grain bullet put into that elks boiler room either.

On another note, I got out this morning and think that my load is going to be 100 grains of BH over a 250 Barnes T-EZ. I thought that I had more bullets but I didn't so I had to come home and order some more and get back out next week and tweak my load a little.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> Yes, I posted pictures of fouled patches from a few shots of BH209 last year, you can search for them. I find it as filthy as other powders, its just not as corrosive or builds up as thick as say, pyrodex.


Wouldn't less powder stuck/built up in the barrel suggest a cleaner, more efficient powder?

I use to swap bullets, I remember growing up people shooting 150's for deer and 180's for elk in an .06.

I prefer to have a single setup that works for whatever I need it to. The 290 Barnes don't destroy a deer, and I prefer them for elk. Things happen sometimes and I like having that extra 40gr. I have seen elk take 7-9 rifle shots before dropping. They also could take one shot from a 243 and die. I just tend to go with the "just in case" route.


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm sold on the 290 gr Barnes bullet. Complete pass through on my bull last year at 130 yards with the 290gr TMZ in a Crushed Rib sabot over 76gr by weight of BH209. Double lung shot and he died in about 80 yards. Best part was it didn't destroy much meat. even in the ribs but opened a half dollar size hole on the way out.
I figure if I'm shooting something as tough as elk, I'm going to do whatever I can to stack the odds in my favor and get him down as fast as possible, a 290gr bullet just has more weight to blow through bone in case I don't do my job perfectly when I take the shot. 

One other note for load development, if you like the bullet but aren't getting the consistency there are more things you can try besides powder or just scrapping the bullet. If you want to stick with a bullet and pellets but aren't getting great groups, try changing the sabot or the primer and see if that makes a difference. A lot of people don't realize how much impact the primer can have.
Give the barrel time to cool between shots in the summer so you aren't melting the sabot and gunking the barrel up even more.
Keep the flash channel clean of carbon build up. 
Consistency is the name of the game, consistent powder charges, consistent seating pressure and depth(mark the ramrod to verify if you want). If you are getting blowback, you aren't getting consistent flame to the powder which will could result in inconsistent groupings. 

Just some things I wish I knew starting out and didn't have to learn the hard way.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Lots of good advice here. I agree consistency. But yes those barnes 290s tmz and for me 110 blackhorn by volume is money. Im guessing I got lucky with my CVA as i can literally shoot 5 before swabbing and all group great. 1 moa at 100 and 200 and about 3 inches at 250 but thats the furthest id shoot anyhow. Plus like said sticking with the 290 you can use it for deer and elk. Never have to deal with re zeroing for hunts etc.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, everyone convinced me to try the BH powder before the rifle even got here. Ordered the BH breech plug and powder measure today. 

I’m also considering returning the Barnes 250’s and getting their 290 version. 

Anyone tried those Federal B.O.R Lock MZ bullets with the plastic sabots built in? They look interesting but only come in a 270gr.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> Well, everyone convinced me to try the BH powder before the rifle even got here. Ordered the BH breech plug and powder measure today.
> 
> I'm also considering returning the Barnes 250's and getting their 290 version.
> 
> Anyone tried those Federal B.O.R Lock MZ bullets with the plastic sabots built in? They look interesting but only come in a 270gr.


 I don't think you're going to regret trying the Blackhorn powder. My buddy bought a Accura V2 LR over the summer, and we tried all sorts of T7 and Pyrodex combos with the Barnes 290 TEZ. He was not having the best of luck finding a good load.

So he broke down and bought some Barnes 290 TMZ and some Blackhorn powder and it made a world of difference, shooting same hole groups at 100 yards.

We probably could've tried some different bullet combinations in with the pellets but he was bound and determined to shoot a Barnes 290 grain.

One thing I noticed in the difference between his gun and my gun was the bore was a lot more clean after every shot compared to mine. And we're both shooting Blackhorn 209 The only difference is he has a 30 inch barrel and I have a 27 inch barrel, but for some reason his barrel was half as dirty as mine after every shot. I wonder if the longer barrel had anything to do with it

If you are going to shoot the Blackhorn powder, I would suggest weighing your charge out by weight or, get the Blackhorn powder measuring tubes. If you use the measuring tube's, start at 100 grains. It will actually be 110 grains by volume because those powder tubes are off by 8 to 10 grains, I've checked every one of mine. Blackhorn has a conversion chart weight to volume ratio on their website


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I’ve read that the Blackhorn tubes are very inaccurate and inconsistent. I bought some anyways.

My plan is to calculate the charge by weight and put the correct amount in the tubes to carry into the field. I’ll figure out the conversion math.

It could be that your friend was getting a more thorough burn with his longer barrel. These shorter barrels likely leave a lot of unburned powder in the bore and blasting out the muzzle.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> Well, everyone convinced me to try the BH powder before the rifle even got here. Ordered the BH breech plug and powder measure today.


Ya thats how I felt. Everyone talked it up like the most amazing thing there was. Then in actual practice I found: its hella expensive compared to Pyrodex, POI drifts if you dont swab between shots just like Pyrodex. If you leave it in your barrel for a few weeks, the soot "solidifies" into a something resembling a dried paste like wierd stuff I had to soak and wire brush to remove.

Also... and the biggest disappointment of all, its FILTHY. My thread from last year after trying BH209 the first time:

https://utahwildlife.net/forum/14-muzzleloaders/195709-bh209-powder-filthy.html

The only real advantages are its supposedly non-corrosive (I'm still on the fence about that) and it doesnt foul as fast as pyrodex.

I wish I had saved the cost of the 700ML conversion kit, the $$$ spent on a bottle of BH209 and stuck with Pyrodex. Pyrodex always shoots MOA out of that rifle with a swab between shots. I do enjoy the claw extractor for the 209 primers though... that is snazzy.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Hey, my TC muzzle loader has a claw extractor. Actually it has two of them, two fingers on each hand 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Sounds like your on the right track with 290s and BH209. Not sure if helps as I have same rifle as gooses friend but I bought the traditions powder measure and load upto 110 on their volume measure. Shoots tight. Just a warning though those barnes 290 tmzs are a little tough to get down but worth it in my eyes. And for the cost of blackhorn if your rifle groups tight with it then its worth it hands down. I clean mine after shooting each time so havent experienced the hardening Dallen spoke of but like any gun keep it clean after you shoot and its all good.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I don’t mind the cleaning if I can use basic tools at the range to do it. Once the sight in and load development is done I’m only planning to shoot it once a year.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

RandomElk16 said:


> Wouldn't less powder stuck/build up in the barrel suggest a cleaner, more efficient powder?


Yes it does.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> I've read that the Blackhorn tubes are very inaccurate and inconsistent. I bought some anyways.
> 
> My plan is to calculate the charge by weight and put the correct amount in the tubes to carry into the field. I'll figure out the conversion math.
> 
> It could be that your friend was getting a more thorough burn with his longer barrel. These shorter barrels likely leave a lot of unburned powder in the bore and blasting out the muzzle.


I do the same thing with the BH tubes, I weigh it out on a scale and use the tubes to hold the powder. like I said, I'v got 12 BH tubes, and I measure out 110gr by weight and it fills the tube up to 100gr by volume on every one so there is a 10gr difference.

That BH powder left less residue in my buddies gun than T7 and pyrodex pellets, Not the case in my gun. It seemed just as dirty.

I shoot my first shot on target with a squeeky clean barrel and then I push a dry rag through between every shot after that (just to be consistent) and I clean the breech plug every few shots. By doing so it seems to leave the same amount of fouling in my bore every time. By maintaining consistency in my fouling my groups tightened up and my shots were consistent, shot after shot.

A few weeks ago when I shot my muzzy, I had a 20fps deviation in my velocity, I'm not 100% sure but, I think a 20fps deviation is good for a regular Jo muzzleloader hunter like me.

I shoot 150fps faster with my 290 TMZ and 110gr of BH than my father inlaw with 100gr pyrodex and a 250 TMZ....Same guns

All this is my own experience........Not, the gospel truth. I believe every gun is different


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Cleaning it is easier than a regular rifle in my eyes. In my above post I went over what I do. Takes about 5 minutes but thats after waiting about 45 minutes for that foam to dissolve crud.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

goosefreak said:


> If you are going to shoot the Blackhorn powder, I would suggest weighing your charge out by weight or, get the Blackhorn powder measuring tubes. If you use the measuring tube's, start at 100 grains. It will actually be 110 grains by volume because those powder tubes are off by 8 to 10 grains, I've checked every one of mine. Blackhorn has a conversion chart weight to volume ratio on their website


On the subject of volume to weight of Black Horn I just weighed a couple of measured by volume on my scale and from what I came up with the chart on the Black Horn site is off a ways.

Here is what I got on the two that I checked out:

Volume load of 120 grains, BH said that by weight it will be 84 grains I got 76.9 grains

Volume load of 100 grains, BH said that by weight it will be 70 grains I got 66.6 grains.

Anyone else done any comparisons on it?


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Critter said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > If you are going to shoot the Blackhorn powder, I would suggest weighing your charge out by weight or, get the Blackhorn powder measuring tubes. If you use the measuring tube's, start at 100 grains. It will actually be 110 grains by volume because those powder tubes are off by 8 to 10 grains, I've checked every one of mine. Blackhorn has a conversion chart weight to volume ratio on their website
> ...


I posted a few weeks ago about the difference I see, weight from volume, I weigh out 77gr by weight which according to BH website should be 110gr by volume, when I fill the tube up it only fills it up to 100gr volume.

Whatever someone does, doing it consistently is key, that said I prefer measure by weight, that way I know for sure every load is down to the exact grain.

With my BH charge it's pushing my 290 TMZ @ 1940 FPS with a 27" barrel


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Anyone used a Magnetospeed Chronograph with a muzzleloader?

Oh and....it came today!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> Anyone used a Magnetospeed Chronograph with a muzzleloader?


Absolutely not. I'm going for accuracy when I shoot... speed is secondary, and it only needs to be "enough". I am not hanging a weight on the end of my rifle changing the barrel harmonics to get a velocity reading. I shoot over a plain ole crony (with the blast shield if its a muzzleloader).



> Oh and....it came today!


Congrats, new toys are fun.

-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I don’t want to stain it black so I’m thinking I’ll not.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

DallanCI shoot over a plain ole crony (with the blast shield if its a muzzleloader).-DallanC[/QUOTE said:


> I shoot over the same chrony.
> 
> I agree, speed is secondary but, definitely like to know my speeds.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

All you need to do is to waste 2 or 3 shots to get a small average if you are using that barrel thing a mig

I agree that with a ML speed is secondary 
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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Nice pic on the gun. Those bergara barrels are ligit. Last year I bought a bergara 7mm rem mag and shoots amazing. I recently picked up the 6.5 creedmoor version. Good shooting rifles for the price.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Always thoroughly clean your new guns boys and girls. You just never know when there are leftover metal shavings inside.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Yep thats why it kills me when I see my buddies take a new gun out and shoot it before cleaning it. Alone ya need to get all the oil and grease out of it but that is pretty bad.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I would send that pic to the company. 

That's insane.


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