# Pointing labs



## Dodger

I know that some feel that a pointing lab is an oxymoron and I can see their point. I understand that a pointing is not something labs are conventionally designed to do. I also know that some dog purists are deeply offended by the idea of a pointing lab.

Here's my problem. I want one dog and I want to be able to do all the bird hunting I want to do with that one dog. I know, I want my cake and to eat it too.

But it seems like to me that a pointing lab would actually work for me. I will probably do more waterfowl than upland game, which is where the lab excels. A lab that points would just be a bonus, right? I mean, even if it isn't the most efficient pointing dog with the best nose on the planet, it will still find some chukars and pheasants, right? 

I know labs aren't as high energy as say, shorthairs or wirehairs. Labs will be slower in chukar country, but my knees make me slow in chukar country too.

I also have a small boy and having a dog patient with kids is an absolute must for the wife.

I'm thinking a pointing lab is the direction I should go. It seems like even if it is not the best at everything (pointing), it is still good at other things (retrieving) and will be pretty patient with kids. 

Thoughts?


----------



## COWAN

Get a wirehair or a poodle pointer. Who breeds pointing labs?


----------



## captain

We had a pointing lab for 10 years. Hands down, the best dog we have ever owned. When we got her we had no idea she would point it was just an added bonus. I bought another dog after her that was supposed to be from the Kellogg pointing line, and he has had no inclination to point after 10 years of hunting. If you want a dog that is a pointer you are taking a chance buying a lab, even if they are advertised as such. However if you get one that points it can be magical.


----------



## Dodger

Tiger Mountain breeds pointing labs. They have a tiered pricing schedule where between weeks 6 and 7 of the puppy's life, they put it on birds to see if it points. If it points, it costs more. If it doesn't, they sell it as a flusher for a reduced price.

If you pay the higher price, they guarantee the puppy will point.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

I would not hesitate to buy a pointing Lab if you hunt waterfowl more than upland birds. Labs are kings of the swamp. I don't care what breed you are talking about. They don't retrieve like a Lab. Nothing does.

This is a helluva litter, btw:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=27215359&cat=105&lpid=4&search=Pointing&ad_cid=5

That said, my Lab flushes and flushes hard. He came from a pretty well known pointing father. I just keep him in gun range. No big deal.


----------



## Whiskey Hound

The only bird my Lab ever pointed out to me was the Pheasant she was pinning down for me. Only Rooster I have ever bagged and didnt fire a shot.


----------



## Dodger

So, since I know my wife isn't a member here, is there any reason I shouldn't get one? What kind of questions should I ask the breeders? Tiger Mountain seems pretty legit. I like the local duckpup guys but it doesn't look like they have any males* and no guarantee the puppy will point.

*Duckpup does have a 12th dog that is available and a male. But, it looks like the runt? Is that a problem?


----------



## ajwildcat

I was just discussing this very topic a few days ago with my wife. First priority for us in a dog is it had to be a great family dog. Then I explained to my wife that I wanted a dog versatile enough to hunt duck, geese, grouse, and pheasant. So with that being said we bought 2 labs and I have been training them since 10 weeks old in a field behind my house that holds pheasants, chuckar, and geese. It didn't take long for them to learn that when we are out in the fields then we are out there to chase the birds. 
I love labs and will always have at least 1, the biggest problem I see is will I be smart enough and versatile enough to teach my pups to hunt multiple species.
DOGS WILL HUNT!:mrgreen:


----------



## Huge29

If I were you, I would call the Hatt boys at Hatt's Ranch. I have heard it that they credit the Hatts boys with "inventing" the breed/cross. Not sure if that is true, but they do run a lot of them. They could at least share an educated opinion with you. Good luck! http://hattranch.com/huntingSite/contact.html


----------



## hossblur

Not a purist but it seems that trying to have everything generally means you get nothing. If you waterfowl, buy a waterfowl dog, and enjoy some upland days with it. Labs are extremely smart, doesn't take long for them to catch on to hunting upland, even if there noses aren't as good. I would take what your gonna spend on a pointing lab, and drop it on a bloodlined lab. I picked up my best bred dog last december, and today at 10 months she was out picking up ducks. I always thought you could train a dog to be good, but bloodlines do matter, she is so far advanced of where my other labs have been at her age its amazing. I don't understand why a pointing lab, train them to stay close, you can see when they are on something, pointing seems a waste, and paying for one is money you could spend on a better bred lab. I have 2 yr old twins, so I went with a female, both of my previous males were too wild for little kids, my .02


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

I agree, hossblur. I took my old Lab after pheasants this morning and he put fifteen birds in the air for me. All were within gun range. Ten hens, two passed unsafe shots, one missed, and two roosters in the bag. That's pretty good work for a ten year old Lab on wild pheasants in Utah.


----------



## robiland

I have a 1/2 silver and 1/2 chocolate lab I bought out of Idaho 4 years ago. This dog is an amazing dog. I guess the silver side was a shed hunting dog lab. My lab last year started pointing. Not like a solid point and stay, but as he finds a bird, He stops, his ears perk up and he stairs down the bird for a few seconds, then he slowly moves in. It is fun to watch and helps me get ready for the shot. He has a killer nose to. Ive been with dogs that have lost ducks in the marsh. But he seems to do quite well. He is great with the kids. He has a ton of energy. Never wants to stop. He wasnt supposed to be a pointer, but he has some in him and does great.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

My pointing lab passed away a few months ago, but I wouldn't hesitate to get another. She would hold a solid point on birds and not budge until instructed to do so. I worked her on pheasants/upland as a pup religiously. I figured she would instinctively work a duck blind with a bit of training, which turned out to be the case. I may have just been fortunate and have not experienced any other pointing labs, but the she was an amazing dog and really was what I would consider the best of both worlds.


----------



## bamacpl

--I ended up getting me a Lab/Pointer mix. I wanted a "Bird dog" & ain't rich & got this dog for $200. I started hunting him at 10 weeks old, mostly Chukar, but also some grouse & pheasant. So far he is AWSOME! He don't range out too far....100yds at times till I call him back & he has went on point a cpl times, but didn't hold very long. He has learned all this on his own just from being out hunting. He minds very well & I have taught him the basic commands "woah", "let go", "dead bird" etc.....
When I initially got him all I really wanted has a hunting partner that would find & retrieve downed birds & retrieve, & boy am I pleased!!!! He has FAR exceeded my expectations!!!!!!

Now I am a lil torn as to wether or not I should put in the time to reinforce his point or just hunt him & enjoy!
Here is a 10wk old pic:








& 9mo old:


----------



## Packfish

Good looking dog- looks like one thing for sure- you're going to enjoy him


----------



## bamacpl

Yes,!!!! Agree!! If nothing else, he is my hunting partner!!!


----------



## The Naturalist

We have a 1/2 Newfoundland cross GSP female that points very well. She looks just like a large GSP. My wife wanted her to have pups so we had her bred with a registered yellow lab. Pups arrived two weeks ago. Pups all look like labs. Three chocolate female, one chocolate male. Three black male, and one black female. I'll post a few pics when they get moving around a bit more. Both parents have a great disposition and are excellent around our young grandkids.

I'm suspecting the pups, at least some of them, will point.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

One word, Drahthaar. Want proof, go to www.vdd-gna.org and do a little light reading.


----------



## bamacpl

Elaborate TEX---what are you trying to say?


----------



## hunting777

My neighbor here in Elwood breeds those. From what I have seen those are amazing dogs and that amazing is an understatement . Those dogs can do it all. But I have a hard time with the looks of them. Those beards are just ugly. I know It shouldn't be about the looks. 

I have two labs now and I just love my Labs. I have a fifteen year old lab that has cancer. I don't think she will make it through the summer. It is hard to see her go. I have had her longer than most of my kids. I am starting to look for another dog. I am thinking I am going to go with a Silver Pointing Lab. I just got to hide the cost from my wife. She's going to freak out when she sees the cost of those. :mrgreen:


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

bamacpl said:


> Elaborate TEX---what are you trying to say?


I always get a kick out of people searching for the perfect all around dog. Wanting a good family dog that points, has a good coat, is sturdy in cold weather, and will also hunt ducks and track game. "Pointing Lab" is an oxymoron. Labs retrieve, that's what they're REALLY good at, and no matter how hard to try to breed the "point " into them you're always going to get some that simply wont point at all. Want a good family hunting dog that will ALWAYS point, ALWAYS retrieve, and ALWAYS track wounded game? Buy a Drahthaar.

That's what I'm trying to say.


----------



## gdog

Silver Pointing Lab......:shock:


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Best dog I have ever owned and that is saying a lot.


----------



## bamacpl

Makes perfect sense Tex--although that's your "opinion" I respect that.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

bamacpl said:


> Makes perfect sense Tex--although that's your "opinion" I respect that.


You're right. That's just my opinion, and a very bias one at that. Kinda hard not to be bias when you've owned em for 24 years...;-)

The reason I toot my Draht horn so loud is because I've been exactly where Dodger is right now. I've tried everything. Labs, Brits, pointing labs, (well, they were supposed to be "pointing" Labs...NOT...) Had me a Lab/Shorthair cross once, she was the birdiest dog I've ever seen but he hated the water and wouldn't point. I got the worst of both breeds... :? Back to the drawing board... Then someone turned me on the the GWP/Draht and I've been a fan ever since. The Pudelpointer is a close second, and I've heard good things about Griffons too. Never owned a PP, but the ones I've been around are great dogs. They don't call them the "versatile" breeds for nothing. 8)


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

http://www.navhda.org/registry/versatile-hunting-dog-breeds

Want a versatile dog. Start with a versatile breed. Some better than others in my opinion too.


----------



## Muley73

I've had weimers (a **** good one at that) shorthairs (another little champ) and currently own an absolute doll of a vizsla. But I'm out my head excited about my new little drahthaar. She's unreal smart and an absolute tank. 4 months old and growing!!!!


----------



## bamacpl

Nice lookin pup!!!


----------



## gdog

Muley73.....where is she out of?


----------



## izzydog

But I have a hard time with the looks of them. Those beards are just ugly. I know It shouldn't be about the looks. 
Thems is fightin words!:grin:


----------



## Muley73

gdog,
She is out of Scott Doxeys C litter, vom Barenwald. She an amazing pup.


----------



## bamacpl

What do these Drahthaar's cost?


----------



## jeff788

bamacpl said:


> What do these Drahthaar's cost?


Another very happy Drahthaar owner here. They may not be "stylish" enough on point, or run big enough to win you any bird dog field trials. They may not be inclined for the rote repetition necessary to take hand signals to a 500 yard "blind" retrieve like a well bred lab, but if you want a dog to find and point game and make sure that what you shoot makes it to your table, they're hard to beat. Depends on what is important to you. Mine has been great with my young kids, who sometimes mistake her beard for a handle, she covers more ground in the chukar hills than I can, holds her point until I can lug myself over to the covey and catch my breath, she tracks down cripples, she breaks the ice to retrieve ducks, she's blood tracks, etc. The pictures below are my pup's first season. The first is a bunch of teal she retrieved from the GSL in single digit temperatures, and then her pointing a covey of chukars the next weekend.

Cost? Typically around $1000, which is a fraction of the cost of what it'll cost you to feed, vaccinate, train, and hunt them over their life time. Also bear in mind that, in addition to the hunting performance testing, they (the VDD dogs, anyhow) all have to undergo health screenings before breeding, so you're much less likely to end up with costly health problems than you would be with a random dog from KSL.


----------



## bamacpl

️️️️NICE pup!!!!


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

izzydog said:


> But I have a hard time with the looks of them. Those beards are just ugly. I know It shouldn't be about the looks.
> Thems is fightin words!:grin:


Beard? What beard? 


If you can spot a hair on that dogs face I'll kiss yer arse.  I always said the best looking shorthairs are Drahts... 

Style? not so much...:roll:


----------



## bamacpl




----------

