# Mnt Lion attack on opener...



## gdog

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46377970&nid=148&title=bow-hunter-injured-after-encounter-with-mountain-lion-near-kamas-officials-say

"KAMAS - A bow hunter received minor injuries to his chest and leg after he came in contact with a mountain lion that was stalking him, officials said Saturday.

The encounter took place east of Kamas near the Utah State Fish Hatchery, according to Utah Division of Wildlife Resources Outreach Manager Phil Douglas. The man who was injured was hunting with his father in the area, he said. Saturday marked the first day of the general deer archery season.

"It's pretty obvious that with a wound to the chest and the leg that this person was attacked," Douglas said.

The man's injuries were not life-threatening, and the encounter appeared to be a self-defense situation, Douglas said. The animal was stalking the hunters before the encounter, and it continued stalking them after, according to Douglas.

Two wildlife conservation officers were on the scene gathering information. A houndsman was also in the area trying to find the mountain lion.

The mountain lion will be euthanized if it is found, Douglas said. Per Utah Division of Wildlife Resources policy, mountain lions are euthanized if they come in direct contact with a person, he said."


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## Critter

Possibly a young cat out on his own for the first time trying to figure out what he is suppose to go after. 

The hunter must not of been hurt too bad since he refused medical attention and wanted to go back to hunting.


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## stillhunterman

The comments are the best part of the article, other than the hunter cowboying up to continue to hunt.

It amazes me how disconnected the general population is from nature and how it actually works. Yet they make these emotion based comments they fully believe are how things are and should be. No clue at all...


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## Kevin D

Okay, call me a skeptic, but the hunter claimed the lion roared at him, then roared increasingly louder before it attacked him? Really?? Never knew of a lion to give away it's position by roaring while stalking it's prey. Ripped holes in the front of his shirt chest high but it never knocked him down?? Help me understand the physics of that. Then to top it off, a houndsman with rides through there a couple hours later and his dogs never pick up a track??

Sorry, but there are too many things that aren't adding up for me to take this encounter seriously.


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## stillhunterman

Kevin D said:


> Okay, call me a skeptic, but the hunter claimed the lion roared at him, then roared increasingly louder before it attacked him? Really?? Never knew of a lion to give away it's position by roaring while stalking it's prey. Ripped holes in the front of his shirt chest high but it never knocked him down?? Help me understand the physics of that. Then to top it off, a houndsman with rides through there a couple hours later and his dogs never pick up a track??
> 
> Sorry, but there are too many things that aren't adding up for me to take this encounter seriously.


Kevin, maybe they updated the story with a few more details after you read it, but the hunter did say when the cat lunged at him and hit him in the chest it knocked him down, but it didn't bite. I get what your saying though about the addition...


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## 7mm Reloaded

Little unnerving I was walking around there with my grand kids about a 1/4 mile away when it happened. I wasn't hunting. Going to start carrying the 12 gauge lol


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## Lone_Hunter

Cat's and Bears are two reasons why I know a couple people got their CFP's. That way they can carry a handgun while on the archery hunt. Personally, I never go up into the mountains without at least a handgun loaded with some hardcast. The odds of running into a 4 legged predator are low, but the way I see it, a hunter is twice as likely to run into one then your average Utah hiker beebopping down well worn trails making alot of racket. Just last spring, I had a cinnamon bear start wandering into our camp. That was an interesting experience.



stillhunterman said:


> The comments are the best part of the article, other than the hunter cowboying up to continue to hunt.
> It amazes me how disconnected the general population is from nature and how it actually works. Yet they make these emotion based comments they fully believe are how things are and should be. No clue at all...


It's predictable. Anytime a story like this crops up, every liberal in Utah must run to KSL to spew their nonsense in the comment section. Fifty percent of the comments on that article are basically, "Poor lion" and "your in his backyard, your not supposed to be there", as if humans are completely isolated from the food chain and were all supposed to be in the city. They really do have an entirely different world view.

I'd have dropped these two little gems in the comment section, but it would never make it past KSL's censors.






You'll have to go to youtube to see this next one, they put it in "youtube jail", must have hurt someones feelings.


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## 7mm Reloaded

They should allow open carry on Bow and muzzy. C.C. might take to much time to draw esp. if its your pack.


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## Lone_Hunter

7MM RELOADED said:


> They should allow open carry on Bow and muzzy. C.C. might take to much time to draw esp. if its your pack.


As open carry in Utah goes, (say around town), legally anyone can open carry an unloaded firearm. (2 actions from firing). Only CFP holders can carry a loaded firearm. In either case there is no regulation stating it has to be concealed that I'm aware of.

Now, off the top of my head, DWR field regulations are simply that you can't have any centerfire firearm during the archery or muzzy hunt, except if you have a CFP, then your sidearm is ok.

I think it's one of those things where, they don't want you to cheat on the hunt, but their not going to deny your state issued department of public safety permit.


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## 7mm Reloaded

I was told once by an officer that you cannot open carry IF you are hunting the bow or muzzy. only c.c. If you're not hunting its ok ?


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## Lone_Hunter

7MM RELOADED said:


> I was told once by an officer that you cannot open carry IF you are hunting the bow or muzzy. only c.c.


That's my understanding. No firearm on you during archery, and only your smokepole during muzzy, unless you have your carry permit, in which case your sidearm (aka pistol / revolver) is ok.

In fact, having your carry permit is the only exception to having a loaded firearm in a vehicle.



> If you're not hunting its ok ?


Ehh.. well that's a dicey one.

In town, out in public? Legally yes your ok.

If your just out in the woods with no hunts going on? I can't imagine open carry not being ok.

Out in the woods, but in camp? I'm pretty sure your ok.

But when you put it in context where your out in the woods, and in the field in area where there is an active hunt going on even though your not hunting with no carry permit? I dunno.

If im talking out of my hindquarters, correct me, I don't want to say anything not true.


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## HighNDry

So what if you are not hunting with a bow, you do not have a bow on you but you are hiking and carrying a sidearm for squirrels and such?


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## 7mm Reloaded

HighNDry said:


> So what if you are not hunting with a bow, you do not have a bow on you but you are hiking and carrying a sidearm for squirrels and such?


He said that's fine but no open carry if you are hunting with bow or muzzy. I'm going to find out for sure


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## goosefreak

I read a lot of comments on a post in Facebook saying that they changed the law and you can now carry during the archery hunt since Utah is an open carry state..

I dont care who you are or what you tell me. I will always carry. I'v seen so many lions in the past 3 years in my Elk spot its ridiculous.

I had a pair of lions fallow a cow elk into the seep i was sitting on opening night.

Next to wolves, I think Mt lions are the most worthless animal North America has to offer. good for absolutely nothing.


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## goosefreak

" You may not use any of the following
equipment to take big game during the
archery season:
•A crossbow (Please see Utah Admin. Rule
R657-12 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-
11 for exceptions to this rule.)
•Arrows with chemically treated or
explosive arrowheads
•A mechanical device that holds the bow
at any increment of draw (Please see
Utah Admin. Rule R657-12 and Utah
Admin. Rule R657-5-11 for exceptions to
this rule.)
•A release aid that is not handheld or that
supports the draw weight of the bow
•A bow with a magnifying-aiming device
Please remember that your bow may be
equipped with a range-finding device. Also, if
you carry arrows in or on a vehicle, the arrows
must be in an arrow quiver or a closed case.
If you obtain an archery permit—for
either an archery-only season or a once-in-alifetime
hunt—you may use only the archery
equipment authorized in this section to take
the species listed on the permit.

You may not possess or be in control of
a rifle, shotgun, muzzleloader, crossbow or
draw-lock while in the field during an archery
hunt. For the purposes of this section, “field”
means a location where you are likely to find
the species listed on your permit. (You are not
considered to be in the field if you are in an established camping area or traveling in a fully
enclosed automobile or truck.)
This restriction does not apply to the following
people:
•Hunters who are lawfully hunting upland
game or waterfowl
•Hunters who are licensed to hunt big
game species during rifle or muzzleloader
hunts that coincide with the
archery hunt
•Livestock owners who are protecting
their livestock
•Individuals who are licensed to carry a
concealed weapon (You may not use
your concealed firearm to hunt or take
protected wildlife.) "

Straight out of the 2018 Big game regulation... It does NOT specify handguns as a weapon not permit-table to carry during the Archery hunt. 

Page 44 towards the bottom.. I'v looked every where else in the hand book and it mentions NOTHING! So, to everyone I say start carrying!!


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## 7mm Reloaded

I'm more worried about bears where I hunt. I had a lion run right out from under me once and my muzzy wasn't capped. I guess I could of clubbed it with the gun lol. Hmmm I better start carrying


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## wyoming2utah

Not saying it couldn't happen or won't happen, but Utah has NEVER had a documented case of a lion killing a person in Utah.

You are more likely to trip on a log and hit your head on a rock than be attacked and killed by a mountain lion. Doesn't mean I'm going to start wearing a helmet in the woods....just sayin'! Carrying a concealed weapon in fear of being attacked by a lion is more than just a little overkill in my opinion...


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## Lone_Hunter

wyoming2utah said:


> Not saying it couldn't happen or won't happen, but Utah has NEVER had a documented case of a lion killing a person in Utah.
> 
> You are more likely to trip on a log and hit your head on a rock than be attacked and killed by a mountain lion. Doesn't mean I'm going to start wearing a helmet in the woods....just sayin'! Carrying a concealed weapon in fear of being attacked by a lion is more than just a little overkill in my opinion...


Well, one doesn't carry JUST for cougars. One carriers in case of predators, doesn't matter if they're the 4 legged variety, or the two legged ones.

In terms of cougars though, i'd wager most of the time, you won't know he's there until he's on you or nearly on you, and your not going to have much time to react if that big cat decides you look like meow mix. Your more likely to spot and have time to react to a bear.

As I said earlier, the odds of running into a 4 legged predator are low, but it does happen. As a hunter, your odds of running into a 4 legged predator is probably twice that of your average "outdoor enthusiast". Your doing EVERYTHING the exact opposite of what is considered safe practices to avoid unwanted animal encounters while hiking around in the mountains. That by itself, ups your odds, say from 1% to 2%. Having a firearm on you in case of that 2% odds, will justify the other 98% of your life however.

Aside from that, I think your risks go up even more if your by yourself most of the time. I'm always by myself. It's not by choice, but I'm not letting the lack of partner stop me from doing what I enjoy; but the decisions and the responsibility are mine, and mine alone. I am responsible for my own life, and as such, I'll be bringing my handgun (carried openly) every time the mountains are calling to me. I owe it to myself, and to my family.


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## wyoming2utah

I'm not going to say that someone shouldn't carry in the woods, but I am also not going to say that someone should carry. What I will say, though, is that I, personally, refuse to live my life in fear.

To give an example of what I am talking about, think back to the tragic and crazy events in Las Vegas last year where the gunman started firing on the crowd at the country concert. Just because that event happened and others like it have happened, I will not avoid country concerts or big events with large crowds nor will I start carrying a concealed weapon just because it may happen. I will also not wear a football helmet into the woods in fear of tripping and hitting my head on a rock or stop driving my car to work in fear of getting in an auto accident and being killed. I will always take certain measures to "be safe"....but, I think there is fine line between being safe and being unrealistic or fearful. That line has to be drawn for every individual. For me, carrying a concealed weapon into the forest is fearful and overboard because the likelihood of being killed by a predator or even attacked by a predator is exceptionally low!


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## Lone_Hunter

Well I will agree that concealed carry in the woods is just plain silly. There is little to no reason to conceal a handgun. I don't think that if someone makes the decision to carry a handgun into the woods at all, makes them fearful. Personally, regardless of how I carry my handgun, I forget it's there 99% of the time, and never worry about it. It's not like I go out into the woods thinking there's a bear or cat behind every tree. As you've said, odds are exceptionally low.


But you know, things CAN happen. People just never think it will happen to them. Personally, I've had my bubble bursted enough that I no longer think that, but I temper that with the realization that odds are usually low.


Small story for ya: 



The spring before last, i came back to camp after the morning turkey hunt. It was about 11AM on a monday. Nobody was around, ours was the only camp. I took off all my stuff, and set it in the trailer, grabbed a couple drinks, sat on some chairs, and spent some time with the wife. Our 3 1/2 year old daughter was probably 20 yards in front of us, playing with her toys. The camp was a wide open area, next to a road. 



As were setting there talking, both of us noticed something coming down the road as the dog (on a tether to keep her from running off) started barking like crazy. At first I thought it was a small, riderless horse coming down the road. It was tall and lanky. As it got closer my wife starts shouting, "Bear! It's a bear! Bear!". She'd been camping in Utah all her life and had never seen one before. I couldn't get past the disbelief that a bear would be coming down the middle of the road in the middle of the day. Said bear was moving right for our daughter. She started shouting, and wisked our daughter up. At the same time I bolted for the trailer to grab the shotgun I keep loaded with slugs. We crossed paths in between, she ran into the trailer, I ran out with the gun. Luckily by the I time got back outside with the shotgun, the bear had run off, and I'm grateful for that because I really did NOT want to have to make the decision to shoot it.

My wife had me call DWR to report it. As it turns out, DWR was aware of a specific bear in that area breaking into trailers and such. I don't know if that bear would have made for our daughter or not; but that's not a "what if " game i want to play. But this bet I'll make. Ill bet the likelyhood of a similar encounter happening to us again is REALLY low. Probably will never happen again, but... it did happen, and once is enough to justify a precaution.


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## goosefreak

I would never say it’s over kill to carry in the woods but I agree what was said. I owe it to myself and my family and if I happen to be the one to get attacked I’d rather have my 9mm than a pair of brass balls.. 

I had a mt lion sneak in on me a couple years ago on the archery hunt when I was cow calling, once he realized what I was he was gone. 

I have also had a mountain lion sneak up danger close to my little sister when she was 6 years old. We were on a family outing to antimony creek on the boulder mountain and a My lion snuck right up on my sister while we were all fishing, my mom spotted it and started yelling frantically, we were finally able to get the cat away but, he didn’t go easy, all I had was a bow, so I took off after it. I was able to call it in and it came in ready to kill something so I let one loose but missed and he finally ran off for good..


So, I will always carry. It’s not about living in fear, it’s about being prepared


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## goosefreak

However, if you John Wayne a Mt Lion then you are one BAMF!! And you better be sharing the story!


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## Critter

Just get yourself a mule:
Ahhhh this lovely forum where you can't post full size pictures from certain sites. 

Well here are the thumbnails anyway.


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## wyoming2utah

This thread was on my mind a little this weekend--this year our annual archery elk hunt was made a little more exciting because of bears. Before we left, my brother had been talking to us about a collared bear that was spending a lot of time a few hundred yards from where we like to camp. The bear was basically living in what we have always called "rosebush hell." Though it is an area we have always tried to avoid in our search for elk, the elk are unfortunately often in this area and we often venture in. This year was no different that way and by the time I had reached camp on Friday night, one cow had already been taken in "rosebush hell." Unlike most years, though, 3 bears had also been spotted...one had been seeing crossing the highway and running up a hill during the middle of the day only a couple miles from camp and two more had been seen in "rosebush hell" just a few hundred yards from camp. Interestingly, none of them had collars. More interesting and probably more related to this thread is that none of us carried any kind of weapon after Fridays nor did we avoid "rosebush hell." In fact, my venture through area on Saturday led me directly to a gut pile from Friday's cow and a lot of bear scat. Though there were obviously more bears in the area than most years (probably because of the exceptionally dry year and the search for food), I never saw a bear and never felt threatened. This weekend's experience reinforced my opinion that carrying a concealed firearm into the woods during the archery hunt is overkill, and I believe those bears were doing their best to avoid people as they concentrated on their search for berries which their scat was filled with.

Too often innocent cats and bears are killed simply because people fear them...most of the time they are more afraid than we are and have no desire to be near us. That was my experience again this weekend!


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## HighNDry

I don't know if this is true. I heard that in places where the trails have lots of horses and dogs allowed the cougar and bear will not frequent the areas as much. Something about the smell of horses and dogs keep them fearful. Does anyone know if this is true?


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## APD

chance encounters with predators are at the mercy of situational factors. 99% of the time they just want to get away from you. the 1% of the time they don't, we may rethink our position as the Alpha in the woods theory. 

i'm more concerned with predators in lean years for them. old/sick bears, bears awake during usual hibernation, any animals with young, cats that are seen and don't leave or are seen again after leaving... all raise my level of awareness. i'd be foolish to rely on a perceived understanding between man an the animal kingdom that I'm top dog. just ask the hunters that get the snot kicked/stomped out of them on video by bambi's big brother and bullwinkle.


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## Lone_Hunter

APD said:


> chance encounters with predators are at the mercy of situational factors. 99% of the time they just want to get away from you. the 1% of the time they don't, we may rethink our position as the Alpha in the woods theory.


There's an entire TV series based on that 1% encounter, dramatically entitled "I was prey". I think it's on Animal planet. Kind of interesting to watch people recount there stories. Some of them, just genuinely have bad luck. Others are just plain dumb, or made some dumb decisions.

Now usually, what you see on this show, is the results of brown bears and sharks. But one episode I saw sticks out in my mind because it was coyotes. Now I've known of coyotes going after toddlers, but a full grown man? I'd have never heard of such a thing.

I did a lot of tent camping growing up, so i've seen more then a few coyotes going through camp, and I can't say I have ever been afraid of them. As a kid, I've even smacked a few on the nose when they went sticking their muzzle up to the tent wall. For the most part I never paid them much mind, but I've always figured the only time you might worry about them is if the pack was large, your by yourself, and your wounded and bleeding, but otherwise I'd have never of thought they'd attack a full grown adult in a million years.

So I couldn't find this episode on youtube, but I did find the local news clip of it. According to this guy recount his own story on this show (and not on the news clip below), was he was walking to work alone at 2AM down a road that goes through a few miles of wilderness.






As an aside, I don't think Coyotes will ever lose their fear of people in Utah. :mrgreen:


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## wyoming2utah

Lone_Hunter said:


> For the most part I never paid them much mind, but I've always figured the only time you might worry about them is if the pack was large, your by yourself, and your wounded and bleeding, but otherwise I'd have never of thought they'd attack a full grown adult in a million years.


Hah!
https://utahwildlife.net/forum/29-other-kinds-animals/163249-what.html

Still not packing...


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## Lone_Hunter

wyoming2utah said:


> Hah!
> https://utahwildlife.net/forum/29-other-kinds-animals/163249-what.html
> 
> Still not packing...


And that is your choice, you do what's right by you. From a practical point of view I can understand why. It's one less thing to carry: ounces ->pounds-> pain and all that. Although, with my tongue firmly in my cheek do I say, unless all you do is sling sticks while your hunting, then your still packing a long gun. :mrgreen:

Personally, I can't really leave my handgun at home even when i'd like to, my wife worries entirely too much. On occasion I have, and I don't tell her when i do.


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## wyoming2utah

Lone_Hunter said:


> Although, with my tongue firmly in my cheek do I say, unless all you do is sling sticks while your hunting, then your still packing a long gun. :mrgreen:


I agree...it is a personal choice that every person has to make. Understand, though, that most of the time I spend in the hills or woods or in the wild, is spent fishing and not hunting. Like the situation above, where we were heading out on Lake Powell, I had no long gun...and, most of the hunting I do is done slinging sticks!

In all of the time in the wild throughout my life, I have had close encounters with bears, mountain lions, and coyotes. I have never felt like my life was being threatened or that the predator was four-legged...even after my close encounter with the coyote.


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## goosefreak

wyoming2utah said:


> Lone_Hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although, with my tongue firmly in my cheek do I say, unless all you do is sling sticks while your hunting, then your still packing a long gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree...it is a personal choice that every person has to make. Understand, though, that most of the time I spend in the hills or woods or in the wild, is spent fishing and not hunting. Like the situation above, where we were heading out on Lake Powell, I had no long gun...and, most of the hunting I do is done slinging sticks!
> 
> In all of the time in the wild throughout my life, I have had close encounters with bears, mountain lions, and coyotes. I have never felt like my life was being threatened or that the predator was four-legged...even after my close encounter with the coyote.
Click to expand...

But, I'd sure hate to be unarmed IF that one time ever came along.

If I carry my whole life and never use it then thank heaven but, being 31 if I carry and have to use it that 1 time when I'm 65 then it will be years of habit/practice paid off.

I agree with you though, more than likely nothing will happen or at best you'll have one wild story to tell but, we don't get to choose what a particular animal will do on any given day..


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## Lone_Hunter

I spend more time hunting, and less time fishing. Spring turkey, fall elk (this year I'm trying deer), fall turkey, with a dash of coyote somewhere in between. I'll spend weekends away from my family, and since I have no partner, i'm always by myself. 



Carrying for me, seems more like common sense. If i get in a jamb, i'm the only one who can get myself out of it. I consider my woods gun part of my standard survival kit that I carry in case something happens.


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## wyoming2utah

goosefreak said:


> But, I'd sure hate to be unarmed IF that one time ever came along.
> 
> If I carry my whole life and never use it then thank heaven but, being 31 if I carry and have to use it that 1 time when I'm 65 then it will be years of habit/practice paid off.
> 
> I agree with you though, more than likely nothing will happen or at best you'll have one wild story to tell but, we don't get to choose what a particular animal will do on any given day..


You can play the "What if?" game with virtually everything. Again, I won't live my life fearing all the "what if" possibilities. Again, the likelihood of being attacked by a mountain lion is less than the likelihood of tripping on a log and hitting your head...doesn't mean I'm wearing a helmet in the woods. The likelihood of getting in a car accident while I drive to work is more likely than being attacked by a bear in the woods, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop driving to work. I know several people who were thrown from horses and killed...doesn't mean everyone should stop riding them because we can't choose what a particular animal will do on any given day.

Your choice to carry is truly yours...but feeling the need to carry a sidearm into the woods in fear of an animal attacking is seriously overboard in my opinion.


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## Vanilla

To get back to the story that started this whole thing: I'm having a really hard time believing this story went down the way it was told. Is it possible they cornered said cat? 

I don't want to question the veracity of a guy I don't even know, and I kind of feel bad even making the implication. I do question the story, however.

And I've never carried anything on a hunting trip more than the weapon I was using to hunt with. I do carry bear spray on my chest when I fish in grizzly country, though.


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## goosefreak

Oh, I definitely don’t live my life in fear. 

It is 2018, it’s not 1956 anymore, the world is more evil and weird these days. I had an in counter with a man up in the high country on an archery hunt when I was 16. He snuck over to our camp and was watching us. He came out of nowhere and looked like a total rapist. I grabbed my pistol to keep it close to me and I looked up and the man was gone.. glad I had that gun, it made me feel more in control of the situation so, yeah I never down play the “ what if’s”


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## goosefreak

https://www.realtree.com/the-realbl...-cut-dead-bears-head-off-to-free-man-from-its

Bet this guy was glad he was armed!


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## wyoming2utah

Goose...for every story like that you can find, you can find 10 about someone struck by lightning. You better start dressing from head to toe in rubber....and, by ****, don't swim in the ocean because the sharks will get you!


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## Vanilla

I don't think that anyone is trying to convince anyone else to STOP carrying in the woods that are already carrying. 

I don't ever carry. Even though I have a permit that affords me more broad carry privileges due to my employment and some extra training received, I still don't carry. Why? Because I don't feel the need to. 

If you want to carry, go ahead! If I ever am in a situation where I need it, and I don't have it, you can come to the hospital or my graveside and give me a big "I told you so!" I won't even be mad at you for doing it. That said, there probably isn't any amount of news articles that you could link that would make me feel a need to pack a handgun into the hills in Utah. But that is just me. I am not offended or bothered in the least if anyone else takes the opposite approach.

PS- You won't see me in many oceans. Sharks scare the crap out of me!


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## Lone_Hunter

It's interesting, or amazing, (not sure which), how strong peoples feelings/opinions are on this topic. It's dang near political.


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## goosefreak

Oh, no I don’t like the ocean! Iv got rubber souls on my boots! Besides I’d pull out my 9 a empty a magazine into a lightning bolt of it kept coming after me! 

Speaking of lightning, I’m lucky to escape with my life more than once when a lightning storm rolled in on me at the top of the cascades in Provo. Lightning terrifies me more that bears or lions for sure


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## HighNDry

Vanilla said:


> To get back to the story that started this whole thing: I'm having a really hard time believing this story went down the way it was told. Is it possible they cornered said cat?
> 
> I don't want to question the veracity of a guy I don't even know, and I kind of feel bad even making the implication. I do question the story, however.
> 
> And I've never carried anything on a hunting trip more than the weapon I was using to hunt with. I do carry bear spray on my chest when I fish in grizzly country, though.


Will this guy have to come clean? If professional hounds-men claim that if a cougar was in the area their dogs would have picked up a scent, yet, couldn't, and the guy didn't want medical attention, then maybe the whole story is suspect. Could it be that he didn't want medical attention because the scraps and scratches may not have come from a cat? Could it be that dogs could not pick up scent because there was no cat? I admit I'm a little scared of bears and cougars so I'm not sure I would continue to hunt the day I was attacked--I don't know.

Was there two witnesses? Or did one guy fall through brush and rocks, get scrapped up and then tell the other guy that a Cougar attacked????


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## 7mm Reloaded

Lion spotted in Sandy now. The news said call 911. OMG lol


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## Vanilla

I can just imagine a bunch of Sandy-ites strapped with 9mm's walking the streets looking for this cat this morning.


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## HighNDry

Now one spotted by a hiker near Hobbs reservoir in Layton. A couple of months ago one was spotted twice near Cemetery Point in Huntsville.

Please increase the permits to hunt and houndsmen get your dogs out and chase them around. Sounds like they are getting a little more used too humans.


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## Vanilla

HighNDry said:


> Please increase the permits to hunt and houndsmen get your dogs out and chase them around. Sounds like they are getting a little more used too humans.


They are discussing this today at the WB meeting.


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## Catherder

HighNDry said:


> Now one spotted by a hiker near Hobbs reservoir in Layton. A couple of months ago one was spotted twice near Cemetery Point in Huntsville.
> 
> Please increase the permits to hunt and houndsmen get your dogs out and chase them around. Sounds like they are getting a little more used too humans.


You seem quite unnerved by these lion sightings.

Maybe you need to take up golf.


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## Vanilla

I learned from the movie Anchor Man that bears can smell the menstration. I wonder if lions do as well?


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## HighNDry

Catherder said:


> You seem quite unnerved by these lion sightings.
> 
> Maybe you need to take up golf.


Not really. I've been in the mountains a lot over the last 6 years. I've been on a ton of trails. I think I've seen a couple sets of cougar tracks and possibly without foreknowledge taken a picture of a mountain lion inside a dark mine--at least the glowing eyes and silhouette of the body looks like a cougar.

I just think that if they are so close to civilization there might be too many of them and hunters thinning them would be good management. I also feel that when bear and cougar become less fearful of man, we can run into some problems.

Love golf too. You do not have to choose one outdoor activity over another. Just be careful when entering the brush to find your golf ball and keep a pistol in your bag for varmints and such.


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## CPAjeff

Forget the cougars on the course, I am more worried about something like this:


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## Vanilla

Why didn’t his buddy pull out a 9 and bust a cap?


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## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> Why didn't his buddy pull out a 9 and bust a cap?


It was probably a course in California . . . #geeselivesmatter


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## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> Why didn't his buddy pull out a 9 and bust a cap?


Because they were living their lives fearlessly!!!


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## Kevin D

A couple posts on this thread reminds me of the time I was taking a couple 10 year old boys up to see their first lion my dogs had treed up on the mountain. They were all excited to see a cougar but on the long hike up the hill I kept reminding the boys that once we get to the tree that they can't show any fear. I told them that even though the cougar could easily rip their guts out with their razor sharp claws, or snap their necks like a twig with a single bite, not to be afraid. I said that lions can sense fear and will focus in on it, and if the lion thinks it can whoop you it may just come out of the tree and attack, so you can't be scared...….:shock:


The pace slowed considerably as we got closer to the treeing dogs and I kept up my monologue on what a dangerous animal we were approaching. We were still well short of the tree when both boys started imploring me to turn back, their enthusiasm gone, they told me that they didn't really want to see the lion after all. 

After a good laugh on my part (yes, I can be an ******* sometimes), I told them what timid creatures lions are. How of all the lions I've encountered in the wild, all were either running away when I seen them, or running away when they seen me. They did finally accompany me to the tree, but it was a few minutes before they dared move away from my shadow...…..:mrgreen:


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## HighNDry

Kevin D. I do a lot of fly fishing on the Logan. One day, I was up Temple Fork exploring around and saw a set of what I believe were cougar tracks in the mud near a beaver dam. I kept looking back over my shoulder the rest of the day.

Have you chased any cats up in that area?

Also, to pull it back to this story of a hunter being attacked, if it's true a houndsman was called in and his dogs could not pick up a scent and he could find not tracks or sign of a cougar is that common?


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## wyoming2utah

Kevin D said:


> I told them what timid creatures lions are. How of all the lions I've encountered in the wild, all were either running away when I seen them, or running away when they seen me. They did finally accompany me to the tree, but it was a few minutes before they dared move away from my shadow...&#8230;..:mrgreen:


There is a reason that they are so rarely seen by recreationists relatively speaking. In all of my years in Utah and all of the time I have spent in the outdoors hunting and fishing, I have seen a whopping total of two mountain lions. One ran across the road in front of me one early morning, the other I came across while archery deer hunting.

The lion I saw deer hunting, bolted out of a tree and away from me as fast as it could go. I am pretty sure that I snuck in on it and it bolted when it realized what I was and my proximity to it. Though the noise it made jumping from the pine tree and tearing through woods frightened me, I continued hunting without any fear of seeing it again. It was obvious that that thing wanted to get as far from me as possible.

The reason that we have lion sightings in residential areas occasionally usually comes back to the age and health of the lion. Generally speaking, lions that are found in residential areas are young animals struggling to make it in a brutally tough natural world and have found easy meals or older animals on the decline. Again, though, how many of those animals are guilty of attacking Utahns? None that I know of...and the number is, in fact, ZERO that have ever killed someone in Utah.


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## Vanilla

I’ve never seen one in the wild. I’ve seen a couple at zoos.

I’m sure plenty have seen me, though.


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## Kevin D

HighNDry said:


> Kevin D. I do a lot of fly fishing on the Logan. One day, I was up Temple Fork exploring around and saw a set of what I believe were cougar tracks in the mud near a beaver dam. I kept looking back over my shoulder the rest of the day.
> 
> Have you chased any cats up in that area?
> 
> Also, to pull it back to this story of a hunter being attacked, if it's true a houndsman was called in and his dogs could not pick up a scent and he could find not tracks or sign of a cougar is that common?


The Temple Fork drainage is prime mountain lion habitat, and I have caught dozens of lions in there over the years.

As far as the hounds that were called in not finding anything, scent can be a fickle thing. Temperature, wind, humidity, and of course the age of the track all come into play. A competent hound in good snow conditions can easily follow and catch a 2 day old lion track. Dry ground conditions are a lot tougher. Still, experienced hounds even on a hillside exposed to sun and wind should still be able to pick up a scent 2 to 3 hours old. Shaded areas and in heavy brush the scent should last 6 to 8 hours or longer.

My guess is that the houndsman was there in enough time that his dogs should have detected something sweeping through the area. It would be interesting to hear the houndsman's thoughts on the bow hunters story, he would know of his dog's abilities, tracking conditions, and places a lion would likely hang out in the area. I'd be curious if his BS detetctor was pinging after trailing his dogs through the area.


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## T-Bone

Over where I live there were a few mtn. lions, but they are gone now. They have not been a problem. There is only one that has gotten close to me, which does make me nervous, but so far no problems.


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