# Poachers Caught!



## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

http://wildlife.utah.gov/officers-on-patrol/1668-trophy-deer-and-elk-poaching-case-adjudicated.html

Nice to see these guys get caught. Now something needs to be done about poaching penalties.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

This is pure bullshoot! Some of those guys have been caught poaching many times before! How are they still able to do this? And I know for 100% sure they haven't been caught 1/10th of the times they have pulled these schemes and poached. This fine and penalty won't stop them for 2 seconds and that pisses me off!


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

The pursuit of antler size knows no bounds.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The only way that you are going to stop a person from poaching is to throw him in the clink and not let him out. So many poacher have been caught time and time again just because we can not just send them to jail and forget them, no matter how much we wished that we could.


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## OldEphraim (Mar 6, 2011)

As long as the punishment is a "slap on the hand" poachers will continue to poach even after being caught for prior offenses as these men have shown. The punishment has to be severe enough to change the behavior. Loss of hunting privileges and fines don't seem to be working especially for repeat offenders.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Why would "loss of hunting privileges" even matter to such people? They are not hunters - they don't care about seasons or season limits. They are poachers, and while I think loss of privileges still needs to be part of the punishment mix, the actual penalties, whether monetary, community service, or jail time, need to be increased and made to have some teeth.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

MWScott72 said:


> Why would "loss of hunting privileges" even matter to such people? They are not hunters - they don't care about seasons or season limits. They are poachers, and while I think loss of privileges still needs to be part of the punishment mix, the actual penalties, whether monetary, community service, or jail time, need to be increased and made to have some teeth.


Well said....just look at their smiling faces in that picture. So happy with themselves after leaving a 6x7 bull to waste that most of us; myself included dream about for 60 nights leading up to the elk hunt. That picture made me want to puke. Loss of hunting privileges and fines are a joke. Mandatory 5 years in jail...now we're talking. That would hurt enough to make them think twice before doing that again.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Glad they got caught, but I just don't understand why the DA would offer them a plea deal from felonies down to misdemeanors. I do understand saving tax payers court costs and such, but heck if the case was solid, why even go down that road? Convict them on felonies and they'll never be able to pack a gun again; and if they get caught doing so while poaching, it's that much more to convict on... Sheesh!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I knew a guy in LA caught with too many wood ducks during the season He lost his truck, boat and shotgun. Got a 5 year suspended sentence and hunting privileges revoked for 5 years. It didn't faze him. He was doing it again next season. The only way to get there attention is serious jail time


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

Loosing his truck and boat has to have an affect


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

stillhunterman said:


> Convict them on felonies and they'll never be able to pack a gun again; and if they get caught doing so while poaching, it's that much more to convict on... Sheesh!


This is a good point. Banning these types from packing will affect their lifestyle and their activities more than fines, loss of legal hunting privileges, or even a short stint in jail.

I agree with the rest of you. Glad they got busted but the sentences were way too light.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

He was an MD and it was no big deal to him. Just went and bought new


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

One thing that people need to realize that enhancing penalties in an attempt to deter the conduct for the vast majority of people simply does not work. This has been shown in study after study. 

What 'we the people' of Utah need to do is determine what we think is the appropriate punishment for these types of crimes, and insist on our elected officials making those punishments the law. There are always going to be poachers, just like there will always be people willing to murder, rape, smoke crack, drive drunk or steal your stuff. The punishment is never going to deter the action. But we can punish them accordingly. 

Make your voices heard to your legislators. Insist on changes.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> One thing that people need to realize that enhancing penalties in an attempt to deter the conduct for the vast majority of people simply does not work. This has been shown in study after study.
> 
> What 'we the people' of Utah need to do is determine what we think is the appropriate punishment for these types of crimes, and insist on our elected officials making those punishments the law. There are always going to be poachers, just like there will always be people willing to murder, rape, smoke crack, drive drunk or steal your stuff. The punishment is never going to deter the action. But we can punish them accordingly.
> 
> Make your voices heard to your legislators. Insist on changes.


I guess I was never included in any of those studies. I can't tell you you how many times I have chosen against doing something because of the penalty. Drunk driving being one of them. I have also lived in remote third world countries that have removed a hand of a thief. Don't think for a second that it does not deter a lot of theft.

Remove the gonads of a rapist and see how many more rapes they commit.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Remove the gonads of a rapist and see how many more rapes they commit.


This assumes that rape is an act to satisfy sexual urges, which is not the case. There are other reasons creeps do it and ways for them to still achieve those sick goals.

So what you are really saying here is the only reason you don't drink and drive is because you will have a fine of $1405, spend two days in jail or do 48 hours of community service, and install an interlock device on your car? My guess is there are other reasons why you don't drink and drive. At least I hope there are other reasons.

There are definitely people that deterrence will work for, but that number is very low. Do a quick google search. The data is comprehensive and consistent around the world.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

These poachers are stealing expensive game animals from us citizens what about charging them with felony theft as well?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

In regards to plea deals...I know why they are done. They have to be done. However, the legislature has the ability to make laws that restrict what a prosecutor can offer and what a judge can do for sentencing. Prosecutors and judges don't like these laws all that much, but they exist in other areas. 

DUI is a good example of this. There are mandatory minimum penalties for a 1st DUI, 2nd DUI, and 3rd DUI (in 10 years) that gradually increase. If a person pleads guilty to or is found guilty of DUI, the discretion of the judge is very limited for sentencing. Further, just this year the legislature passed a law that if a person has a previous DUI in the last 10 years, they can't get a plea deal to an Impaired Driving (which some view as a reduced charge). 

If enough of us actually spoke up and insisted that similar things happened with poaching, instead of just constantly complaining about the system online, we might actually be able to make some changes. Has anyone actually talked to your legislator and other elected officials about how big of a joke the punishments are in this state?


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Is this the same derren klein from davis county? Anybody know, I cannot tell from the pictures. If so this guy has quite a reputation...


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

Laws prohibiting actions are nothing more than 1) restrictions on the ethical (e.g. mr muleskinner's example above), or 2) a means of measuring activities of the unethical to provide a legal means to charge criminally. 

Further, the unethical can be broken down into two broad groups A) casual offenders, and B) habitual offenders. 

Now, before we get all excited to impose mandatory prison terms, there really ought to be a differentiation between the generally ethical, intending to be law-abiding individuals, who screwed up for one reason or another, and the individual who doesn't give a **** what the law says, they will do what they want do if they think they can get away with it (Lost LA's example).

No matter what category a person falls into, the key is ENFORCEMENT. I don't recall EVER seeing one single DNR vehicle anywhere outside of Salt Lake or Davis County urban/residential areas in the last 10+ years I've been in UT. Never once while fishing, hunting, or any other activity - at all. If you have individuals out there, willing to break the law not matter what it says, or the penalty is, if they think they can get away with it, enforcement is the only option. That is severely lacking IMO. 

One last thought - before we start throwing people in jail for the long-term (as opposed to an ankle monitor, and a prohibition from leaving populated areas, or other means of preventing further poaching - such as, heaven forbid, enforcing the laws!), perhaps you ought to consider the potential impact on innocent individuals. Children can quickly become victims of their parent's stupidity. If there is a way to control the out of control without preventing them from providing for their families, I'm in favor of that first. Ankle monitors and periodic check-ins for habitual/repeat offenders.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Charina said:


> Laws prohibiting actions are nothing more than 1) restrictions on the ethical (e.g. mr muleskinner's example above), or 2) a means of measuring activities of the unethical to provide a legal means to charge criminally.
> 
> Further, the unethical can be broken down into two broad groups A) casual offenders, and B) habitual offenders.
> 
> ...


I'm not in favor of putting people in prison for poaching, or even in jail for long periods of time. (except for may be the worst of the worst)

But ankle monitoring and periodic check-ins for habitual/repeat offenders? Absolutely not!


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

1) vanilla says enhancing penalties does not work. Then, 2) vanilla says we should all stand up, not just complain, and force the judicial system to enhance penalties. (what a disastrous mess that has been with three strikes on minor drug offenses!!!) 3) vanilla is not in favor of penalties as either a deterrent, or preventative. Something doesn't make sense. What is your solution then?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Charina said:


> 1) vanilla says enhancing penalties does not work. Then, 2) vanilla says we should all stand up, not just complain, and force the judicial system to enhance penalties. (what a disastrous mess that has been with three strikes on minor drug offenses!!!) 3) vanilla is not in favor of penalties as either a deterrent, or preventative. Something doesn't make sense. What is your solution then?


1- No, Vanilla said that enhancing penalties don't work as a deterrent, not just that they don't work. And again, this has been established over, and over, and over again all around the world. Even in the places that cut hands off for stealing.

2- Yes, we should all stand up and ask for stiffer penalties for people that willfully poach animals. This is not for deterrent effect, but simply I think the punishment would fit the crime. I consider these serious offenses, and as such, should carry serious penalties. There are a lot more things that can be done to punish than just putting people in prison or in jail for a long time. I have talked to many elected officials about this issue. I wish many more would, because I think it's something our legislature would be open to outside of the rural areas.

3- Correct, I do not subscribe to the deterrence model...because it doesn't work. Tell me this, how well does the death penalty prevent murder?

The solution for me is to differentiate between the two groups you described. A guy that accidentally (even negligently) shoots a cow illegally is different than the jackwagon that kills a bull on the San Juan and leaves it because it wasn't big enough. The former can get the slap on the wrist. The latter should be punished accordingly as well. Repeat offenders should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I'd like to see any willful act like that carry jail time. It doesn't have to be 6 months, but a few days in jail I believe is appropriate. I also think that these people should be restricted persons. Of course, they have already shown what they think about the law. At least when we bust them with firearms down the road they can spend time in prison.

None of this is to deter others. It is simply if you do the crime, you do the time. It's the same reason I am in favor of the death penalty. Just deserts.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

I think if you let my wife dish out the penalties- it might be help - always comes back to something about a rope- a body part and being dragged behind a truck.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> This assumes that rape is an act to satisfy sexual urges, which is not the case. There are other reasons creeps do it and ways for them to still achieve those sick goals.
> 
> So what you are really saying here is the only reason you don't drink and drive is because you will have a fine of $1405, spend two days in jail or do 48 hours of community service, and install an interlock device on your car? My guess is there are other reasons why you don't drink and drive. At least I hope there are other reasons.
> 
> There are definitely people that deterrence will work for, but that number is very low. Do a quick google search. The data is comprehensive and consistent around the world.


I will be the first to admit is the reason that I have handed my keys over on more than one occasion. It was the fear of hurting others, it wasn't the fear of hurting myself. It was in fact the chance of getting a DUI. Some rapist do in fact rape to satisfy urges. Mostly though it is an act of control. As is murder. Deterrence does not work for the most part because the deterrence IMO is not a strong enough motive to prevent the act in the first place. Rather than a slap on a hand make it something that the people would rather, or could hardly live without.

Freedom, Liberty.......maybe even take away their pets since they don't respect animals anyhow. Heavy fines that stick. Incarceration that sticks. Hours and hours of hard community service. Loss of weapons for life perhaps. Loss of hunting privileges for life.

If you witness the beheading of a drug smuggler on a boat in Istanbul in front of his family I assure you it will deter you from the thought of smuggling drugs in Turkey for life.

Those that do not understand right from wrong need to be taught that they will either conform or suffer extremely stiff consequences. Making certain that they never do it again and deterring those that are on the fence about it.

as Clint Eastwood once said in response to eye for eye........"take a head for an eye"


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

You know what really burns me about this case? Darren Klein! The guy has more money than brains - and he resorts to poaching? And not only once but twice? Take this fools hunting privileges away from him for the rest of his worthless life. Geez Darren - bet ol Becca is just tickled pink with your continuous string of poor arse decisions. The guy lives in a huge house, drives the best of everything, keeps his snobby wife and himself dressed better than the rest of us can dress and he is a poacher! To me a poacher is just as scummy as a drug Fein who is burglarizing houses to feed his habit. LOSER!!!!


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

There will always be a difference of opinions on the harshness of penalties. I know 20,000 would hurt my pocketbook. I don't think to many wives would be happy with their husband fined 20,000. Catching the wrath of your wife would be the worst punishment of all.:brick:/**|**\\


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

When someone makes as many intentional decisions as these people did to get to the point where they were poaching it shows that any potential penalty that might come after the fact will never be enough. Everyone's the same, if potential payoff is greater than potential risk and everything is equal they'll choose to commit the crime. It's just that the rest of us consider the risk to be greater, maybe because our own internal morals are more important than the penalties the state will give out.

Having known poachers myself, I can say without a doubt that preventive measures are the only way to go with repeat offenders. Ankle monitors sound like a fantastic idea.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

silverkitten73 said:


> You know what really burns me about this case? Darren Klein! The guy has more money than brains - and he resorts to poaching? And not only once but twice? Take this fools hunting privileges away from him for the rest of his worthless life. Geez Darren - bet ol Becca is just tickled pink with your continuous string of poor arse decisions. The guy lives in a huge house, drives the best of everything, keeps his snobby wife and himself dressed better than the rest of us can dress and he is a poacher! To me a poacher is just as scummy as a drug Fein who is burglarizing houses to feed his habit. LOSER!!!!


Do you actually know Derren? or just know of him? I know him personally and have for many many years. Did he make a mistake, obviously he did and it looks like hes going to pay for it. I'm not sure where you get the idea he has more money than brains? Obviously you have no clue what hes gone through the last 10 years. I'm not defending his actions nor do I believe the punishment fit the crime but to attack him the way you have on a public forum calling him out personally and even mentioning his wife like that is BS and you need to GROW THE HELL UP! I'm sure you have never made a single mistake in your life have you.. He doesn't live in a "huge" house he lives in a nice house is that a crime? Hes not driving around in anything that is spectacular. His wife is a school teacher and he takes pride in his appearance. Any of these things considered a crime? Again I'm not defending is actions, but it is possible for otherwise good people to make really really bad decisions and yes he has made a few in his life, haven't we all? He deserves whatever punishment he gets and perhaps even more, but I take offense when somebody who may or may not even know him attacks his character the way you have on a public forum. I was an employee of his for many years and he was a great boss who listened to the concerns of his employees and did his best to accommodate their needs both personally and professionally. I was able to go places and do things as a result of working for him that would have never been possible otherwise. So whatever ill feelings you have towards him personally, keep them to yourself. Addressing the current issue is one thing but saying the things you did about him and his wife were a little uncalled for IMHO.


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Bo0YaA said:


> Do you actually know Derren? or just know of him? I know him personally and have for many many years. Did he make a mistake, obviously he did and it looks like hes going to pay for it. I'm not sure where you get the idea he has more money than brains? Obviously you have no clue what hes gone through the last 10 years. I'm not defending his actions nor do I believe the punishment fit the crime but to attack him the way you have on a public forum calling him out personally and even mentioning his wife like that is BS and you need to GROW THE HELL UP! I'm sure you have never made a single mistake in your life have you.. He doesn't live in a "huge" house he lives in a nice house is that a crime? Hes not driving around in anything that is spectacular. His wife is a school teacher and he takes pride in his appearance. Any of these things considered a crime? Again I'm not defending is actions, but it is possible for otherwise good people to make really really bad decisions and yes he has made a few in his life, haven't we all? He deserves whatever punishment he gets and perhaps even more, but I take offense when somebody who may or may not even know him attacks his character the way you have on a public forum. I was an employee of his for many years and he was a great boss who listened to the concerns of his employees and did his best to accommodate their needs both personally and professionally. I was able to go places and do things as a result of working for him that would have never been possible otherwise. So whatever ill feelings you have towards him personally, keep them to yourself. Addressing the current issue is one thing but saying the things you did about him and his wife were a little uncalled for IMHO.


Is this the same Derren that lives in south davis county that used to own a tile shop? If so I KNOW Derren! I worked for him as well and so did my brother and his friends... Derren had LOTS of questionable dealings both personal and professional. That's all I say.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes it is, and show me a business owner that hasn't had a few "questionable dealings".


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

this guys has had MORE than a few.... how many 2nd chances should one guy get? He asked me to do questionable things and I told him to take a HIKE!


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I never said anything about second chances did I. In fact I said the punishment didn't fit the crime. My beef is bringing his wife, lifestyle and other personal things up that are irrelevant to the current situation. I can tell you he never ever asked me to do anything questionable while I was employed there but then again he knows the kind of guy I am and knows where it would have gotten him. There are a lot of opinions about Derren out there, I'm not oblivious to that. All I can speak about are my personal dealings with him. I have many fond memories of working for him.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Bo0YaA said:


> Yes it is, and show me a business owner that hasn't had a few "questionable dealings".


I'm trying to figure out if this is for real or not??? I don't know this guy, but if this is the best defense for him, I don't want to.

What I do know is what is posted in the article and has been established in a court of law. Not flattering in the least. A perfect example of why I will continue to try and get the penalties for willfully poaching wildlife strengthened.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> I'm trying to figure out if this is for real or not??? I don't know this guy, but if this is the best defense for him, I don't want to.
> 
> What I do know is what is posted in the article and has been established in a court of law. Not flattering in the least. A perfect example of why I will continue to try and get the penalties for willfully poaching wildlife strengthened.


Exactly right Vanilla...I would call the guy scum but that would be an insult to scum. They connived and planned and carried out their despicable acts over a 3 year period...hardly a good guy or anything remotely related to that either.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Nope you don't know him so by all means form an opinion of him based on an article. I'm not trying to defend him, not sure what part of that you guys cant understand. I'm simply stating there was no need to bring his wife and lifestyle into this. He committed a crime and should be punished to the full extent of the law. However, that does not take away from what he did for me and my family for the years I worked for him. I will always consider him a good guy who's made bad decisions and could care less what others who were not as fortunate as I in their dealings with him think. It is possible for good people to make bad decisions. Lets hope all your decisions in life are perfect and you never find yourself in his shoes one way or another. However, if you do, I'll be sure to point out the scum bag you must be and how snobish your wife is as a result of you making such bad decisions.. After all, I'm sure it would be fair of me to derive such an opinion based on an article. -O,-


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## FSHCHSR (Aug 30, 2008)

> .Exactly right Vanilla...I would call the guy scum but that would be an insult to scum. They connived and planned and carried out their despicable acts over a 3 year period...hardly a good guy or anything remotely related to that either .


amen


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

Hey Booya - ya I know Derrin personally. I have known him a heck of lot longer than you have. I have known him since we were in Junior High! I sat and watched him in high school walk up behind a couple that were minding their business in high school and ol Derrin reached over and grabbed the girl behind - then got into a fist fight with the boyfriend. Derrin (or however you spell his name) broke both of his hands in that fight. The boy has a life long habit of making stupid decisions! He made a boat load of cash with his business and someone took him hunting and he caught the bug - but true to form the guy just cannot make good decisions. 

My beef with this whole situation is he HAS ALOT OF MONEY AND COULD PAY ANY GUIDE TO TAKE HIM HUNTING ANYWHERE! And what does he do????? POACH!

Good hell - I wear his ol Darrin Klein tile hats everywhere I go hunting. What in the heck was he thinking????


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Absolutely right, what was he thinking? Made an incredibly bad decision didn't he, but as I said before, you must know him as well as you think you do to say things like "HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY". If you know him so well then you would know thats not the case these days or the last 10 yrs for that matter. Doesn't excuse what he did but goes to show that you don't know the guy as well as you think you do.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

People crack me up. Poaching is bad and I'm glad that our wardens were able to stop this activity.........but, to me poaching is just another crime. I rank it right up there with drinking and driving, cheating on taxes, reckless driving, and many other dangerous and costly crimes that many people commit or have committed and not been caught. Dare I say most people? -----SS


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I went hunting with Derren... I was his employee and he had even paid for my tag that year. I remember showing up late to a hunt and him telling me about a buck that he had seen that he wished I was around for to shoot. He insisted that since I had the tag I had to be the one to shoot the deer because a disgruntled employee had turned him in for finishing off a buck pronghorn that had been shot 3 times without being properly dispatched. The original charges against him were for shooting a disabled pronghorn after an employee was not capable of doing it himself. After the employee was fired he took revenge and turned Derren in. 

Getting back to the hunt him and I were on.... We came across 2 hunters a 40ish year old guy with his 80ish year old man. They were watching deer across the canyon and they spotted a 2 point. The 40ish year old man mentioned that he wanted to shoot the 2pt for his oldmans tag and Derren said "Better not I just barely learned my lesson and it's not worth it" 

I'm not sure what has transpired in his life since 1999 but the guy I remember was a law abiding hunter after having his hand slapped for finishing off a wounded pronghorn. Makes me wonder if after under going a ethical vs legal situation he chose to ethically finish off the pronghorn and lost his privilege to hunt for 5 years. I wonder if that triggered some kind of rebellion in him. 

I agree with Bo0yaA about leaving his wife out of this...


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

One other thing that I would like to mention is that the whole trophy hunting crowd really seems to bring the worst of people out. The pressure of waiting for eons of time to draw a tag creates the added pressure of harvesting a large animal and it really detracts from the traditional value of what hunting really is. There would definitely be less poaching if trophy animals were not so idolized. The temptation to break laws and stretch the rules would be a lot lower if there was more opportunity to just enjoy the outdoors.


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

Springville Shooter said:


> People crack me up. Poaching is bad and I'm glad that our wardens were able to stop this activity.........but, to me poaching is just another crime. I rank it right up there with drinking and driving, cheating on taxes, reckless driving, and many other dangerous and costly crimes that many people commit or have committed and not been caught. Dare I say most people? -----SS


I'm glad they were busted also. (John 8:7)


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> One other thing that I would like to mention is that the whole trophy hunting crowd really seems to bring the worst of people out. .


I disagree,
I saw what took place back in the late 60's and 70's ......

There were SOOOOOOO many tages filled by wife's and grand parents
the never left camp ( or maybe home ) IT WAS FREAK'in UNREAL !!!!!!
Common, State wide!

Todays poaching is nothing EVEN CLOSE to what was happening years ago.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bo0YaA said:


> Do you actually know Derren? or just know of him? I know him personally and have for many many years. Did he make a mistake, obviously he did and it looks like hes going to pay for it. I'm not sure where you get the idea he has more money than brains? Obviously you have no clue what hes gone through the last 10 years. I'm not defending his actions nor do I believe the punishment fit the crime but to attack him the way you have on a public forum calling him out personally and even mentioning his wife like that is BS and you need to GROW THE HELL UP! I'm sure you have never made a single mistake in your life have you.. He doesn't live in a "huge" house he lives in a nice house is that a crime? Hes not driving around in anything that is spectacular. His wife is a school teacher and he takes pride in his appearance. Any of these things considered a crime? Again I'm not defending is actions, but it is possible for otherwise good people to make really really bad decisions and yes he has made a few in his life, haven't we all? He deserves whatever punishment he gets and perhaps even more, but I take offense when somebody who may or may not even know him attacks his character the way you have on a public forum. I was an employee of his for many years and he was a great boss who listened to the concerns of his employees and did his best to accommodate their needs both personally and professionally. I was able to go places and do things as a result of working for him that would have never been possible otherwise. So whatever ill feelings you have towards him personally, keep them to yourself. Addressing the current issue is one thing but saying the things you did about him and his wife were a little uncalled for IMHO.


Good people making bad decisions...did you actually read what they went through to do this and over a 3 year period. That's beyond a bad decision and that is something "good people" don't do. Point of the Mountain prison is full of "good people" making "bad decisions"...


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Funny that these poached deer and elk are so valuable to hunters. But most hunters balk at the price of an OTC tag. 

To the vast majority of people an elk or deer is only worth the price of a tag to shoot it. In that case I think in general the punishment fits the crime. 

It's a kin to shoplifting and nothing more IMO.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I never called him scum, nor did I say anything about his wife. I wouldn't have even known he was married if not for all this ranting about involving his wife in this. 

But let's not act like this is a guy that mistakenly shot an extra hen mallard in his bag limit or even negligently killed a cow on a spike tag. This guy and his pals methodically and deliberately plotted to illegally kill multiple trophy animals over several years. And this is just what they've been caught doing, mind you. This is not a "good person" that simply made a "bad decision." These are person with something seriously wrong with the way they think. They think they are above the law and that they are above the rest of us. 

Yes, good people make bad decisions. Just like there are bad people that still do good things as well. But this isn't just about being "good" or "bad." That grossly oversimplifies the situation. These guys need a cognitive restructure of the way they think, because they went down a very wrong road somewhere along the way to get to where they are now. There definitely needs to be some re-calibration here.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Lost, you think what ever you like pal, I know the guy you don't so your opinion means exactly d!ck to me. I read everything I could read about it, nowhere does it say it was his idea to leave the bull to find a bigger one, perhaps it all happened against his wishes and he didn't have the heart to turn in a buddy. All the details are not know in these cases and therefore passing judgment on him and talking smack about his wife was childish and uncalled for (in general). Some people just like to run their mouths for the sake of running their mouths. All I ask is think before running your mouth.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bo0YaA said:


> Lost, you think what ever you like pal, I know the guy you don't so your opinion means exactly d!ck to me. I read everything I could read about it, nowhere does it say it was his idea to leave the bull to find a bigger one, perhaps it all happened against his wishes and he didn't have the heart to turn in a buddy. All the details are not know in these cases and therefore passing judgment on him and talking smack about his wife was childish and uncalled for (in general). Some people just like to run their mouths for the sake of running their mouths. All I ask is think before running your mouth.


Think what you want but you obviously don't know the guy as well as you want us all to believe do you since you didn't know he had been poaching for several years. You obviously have some moral compass issues when you sit here and defend a criminal and say he simply had "bad judgement" or "made a mistake". Your own words speak volumes about yourself. Thanks for being such a stand up guy.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I will always stand up for people I consider friends until all the information is known. As I have said multiple times and will again as it appears its gone over your head. I'm not defensing his actions, he committed and crime and should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. However, the level of which he was involved is not known by anybody here on this particular forum. Regardless, the things that were said about him personally, about his wife, and about his lifestyle were uncalled for. That has been my only point from the beginning. Ive never said he was innocent of any and all involvement have I. The fact that you are so quick to toss a guy under a bus speaks volumes about the type of guy you are and your moral compass. I gladly accept the kind of friend I am to those I consider friends and obviously you have never been fortunate enough to have a friend like me or be a friend like me. Because if you had, you could respect my stance as a friend of the accused. Notice I didn't say agree with my stance but respect it all the same. Again, in case you missed it, my stance is and has been that the things said about him personally, his wife and his lifestyle were uncalled for and childish. NOT that he is innocent of being involved. Got it this time?


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## FSHCHSR (Aug 30, 2008)

This is why poaching is still such a problem.Otherwise good peaple standing up for these criminals because " they always treated me right" . Poaching akin to shoplifting? How many shoplifting cases end in the death of an animal and left to rot because it wasn't big enough?


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Natural predators kill 100s of critters everyday. Nobody seems to think that has any effect on their hunting.

In the grand scheme the .009 percent of animals that die to poaching is having little to no effect on wildlife. 

But it sure gets folks around here rilled up.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm basically saying if these poachers walked on all fours and were covered in fur you wouldn't care about a few dozen animal deaths. 

Either you believe it's compensatory or additive. Simple as that.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Iron Bear said:


> I'm basically saying if these poachers walked on all fours and were covered in fur you wouldn't care about a few dozen animal deaths.
> 
> Either you believe it's compensatory or additive. Simple as that.


This might be the single most insane thing I've ever read on this forum.


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## FSHCHSR (Aug 30, 2008)

So if it is on two legs and illegal its ok but 4 legs and survival lets wipe em out. Am I getting this right?


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> This might be the single most insane thing I've ever read on this forum.


I agree and that is really saying something.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

Nambaster said:


> I went hunting with Derren... I was his employee and he had even paid for my tag that year. I remember showing up late to a hunt and him telling me about a buck that he had seen that he wished I was around for to shoot. He insisted that since I had the tag I had to be the one to shoot the deer because a disgruntled employee had turned him in for finishing off a buck pronghorn that had been shot 3 times without being properly dispatched. The original charges against him were for shooting a disabled pronghorn after an employee was not capable of doing it himself. After the employee was fired he took revenge and turned Derren in.
> 
> Getting back to the hunt him and I were on.... We came across 2 hunters a 40ish year old guy with his 80ish year old man. They were watching deer across the canyon and they spotted a 2 point. The 40ish year old man mentioned that he wanted to shoot the 2pt for his oldmans tag and Derren said "Better not I just barely learned my lesson and it's not worth it"
> 
> ...


This story cracks me right up! Ask Derren to tell you about the good old days in Winnemucca building the school out there in 89-90. Man what an education for a bunch of high-schoolers!!!!! I could tell you stories about unethical behavior (let's be real, illegal behavior) with brother Klein from now until the end of time!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bo0YaA said:


> I will always stand up for people I consider friends until all the information is known. As I have said multiple times and will again as it appears its gone over your head. I'm not defensing his actions, he committed and crime and should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. However, the level of which he was involved is not known by anybody here on this particular forum. Regardless, the things that were said about him personally, about his wife, and about his lifestyle were uncalled for. That has been my only point from the beginning. Ive never said he was innocent of any and all involvement have I. The fact that you are so quick to toss a guy under a bus speaks volumes about the type of guy you are and your moral compass. I gladly accept the kind of friend I am to those I consider friends and obviously you have never been fortunate enough to have a friend like me or be a friend like me. Because if you had, you could respect my stance as a friend of the accused. Notice I didn't say agree with my stance but respect it all the same. Again, in case you missed it, my stance is and has been that the things said about him personally, his wife and his lifestyle were uncalled for and childish. NOT that he is innocent of being involved. Got it this time?


Please do point out to all of us where I mentioned his wife, vehicle, home or job....I'm waiting


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Iron Bear said:


> Natural predators kill 100s of critters everyday. Nobody seems to think that has any effect on their hunting.
> 
> In the grand scheme the .009 percent of animals that die to poaching is having little to no effect on wildlife.
> 
> But it sure gets folks around here rilled up.


Uh WHAT???? You're saying natural predators kill big game and have an effect on the numbers? Well hells bells that's not what Lonetree gets on here and tells us. Surely one of you is wrong, now who is it.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

They both may be.

Lonetree has stated more than once that theoretically all wildlife is at it's carrying capacity at all times due to one thing or another, therefore predation is almost always compensatory. It carries a lot of merit and research to back it up.

Iron Bear tends to infer that we are well below capacity most if not all of the time, except for predators that is, so he typically sounds as if predation is pretty much always additive, at least in terms of making more tags available to the public. It carries merit as well. One less cat with all other things equal should equate to more tags in a given year..............right?

If there is somebody out there that knows for sure one way or the other and can prove it with their own words........invite them to join the forum because they're not here yet.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Sigh....unless your going to actually read and process all the info that has been typed, having a debate/conversation with you is pointless. However, I will give it one more shot. I got a little ruffled about the person who decided to bring all of his personal stuff up which has nothing to do with his current situation. You decided to run your mouth about him being scum without even knowing him which again, shows the type of person you are. I said something you didn't like, so you decided to called my character into question. You accuse me of "defending" him to which I clarified I was not "defending" him and yet somehow you missed it. According to you, there is no such thing as good people who make bad decisions. Obviously an opinion you came to from high atop your pedestal. The only ounce of dribble you have spewed that is remotely accurate, is when you called me a "stand up guy". So now lets hope that if or when you make a bad decision in life, your "friends" stand up for you when people who don't have a clue about you, choose to crucify you on an open forum. So for the final time...He commited a crime, as such he deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I simply felt bringing his lifestyle and wife up was childish and uncalled for. I'm not saying your the one that said it, just that in general, it was childish and uncalled for...


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Plotting planning and doing criminal activity for at least 3 years hardly qualifies as a "bad decision". If you don't understand that then I don't know what else to say.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> They both may be.
> 
> Lonetree has stated more than once that theoretically all wildlife is at it's carrying capacity at all times due to one thing or another, therefore predation is almost always compensatory. It carries a lot of merit and research to back it up.
> 
> ...


This guy gets me. 

My barn isn't infested with mice and it hasn't been for decades. That's not proof mice are at capacity in my barn or that the habitat and weather haven't been favorable for a population explosion.

Can anyone guess why I don't have 5 million mice on my property? Clue: meow.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> One other thing that I would like to mention is that the whole trophy hunting crowd really seems to bring the worst of people out. The pressure of waiting for eons of time to draw a tag creates the added pressure of harvesting a large animal and it really detracts from the traditional value of what hunting really is. There would definitely be less poaching if trophy animals were not so idolized. The temptation to break laws and stretch the rules would be a lot lower if there was more opportunity to just enjoy the outdoors.


Now that's the Namster I've come to strongly disagree with in the past.
I thought You may have changed the last little while.:mrgreen:
It could easily be said that if we have unlimited tags and very few trophy animals around that those trophy animals would also be poached because that they are so much more rare to see.
I think peoples morals have been declining a lot in the last few decades which will increase in poaching cases of animal of any size or gender.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think it's funny how people on this forum jump on other members for long distance shooting or something stupid or being the "ethics police". Then they start defending this poaching scumbag. You can't have it both ways. He committed a crime and was caught. Chances are it's not his first and won't be his last. But call it like it is. He's a low life poacher plain and simple.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I disagree,
> I saw what took place back in the late 60's and 70's ......
> 
> There were SOOOOOOO many tages filled by wife's and grand parents
> ...


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

^^^^King troll Mcfly arives----Kettle and stick in hand..:!:...-O|o-^^^^^^


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

martymcfly73 said:


> Then they start defending this poaching scumbag.


Wow, we have some extremely dense individuals on this forum lol. Exactly who was defending him? Did you actually read the posts or just read a few words here and there before making that asinine statement?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> Do you actually know Derren? or just know of him? I know him personally and have for many many years. Did he make a mistake, obviously he did and it looks like hes going to pay for it. I'm not sure where you get the idea he has more money than brains? Obviously you have no clue what hes gone through the last 10 years. I'm not defending his actions nor do I believe the punishment fit the crime but to attack him the way you have on a public forum calling him out personally and even mentioning his wife like that is BS and you need to GROW THE HELL UP! I'm sure you have never made a single mistake in your life have you.. He doesn't live in a "huge" house he lives in a nice house is that a crime? Hes not driving around in anything that is spectacular. His wife is a school teacher and he takes pride in his appearance. Any of these things considered a crime? Again I'm not defending is actions, but it is possible for otherwise good people to make really really bad decisions and yes he has made a few in his life, haven't we all? He deserves whatever punishment he gets and perhaps even more, but I take offense when somebody who may or may not even know him attacks his character the way you have on a public forum. I was an employee of his for many years and he was a great boss who listened to the concerns of his employees and did his best to accommodate their needs both personally and professionally. I was able to go places and do things as a result of working for him that would have never been possible otherwise. So whatever ill feelings you have towards him personally, keep them to yourself. Addressing the current issue is one thing but saying the things you did about him and his wife were a little uncalled for IMHO.


This whole post isn't defending him in any way. You're right my mistake..I apologize.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh and Lost....well your name says it all actually..Not sure where you came up with three years of plotting and planing lol. Do you know exactly what his involvement was? Do you know if he pulled the trigger or if he was with a buddy that did and was found guilty because he didn't turn him in? Let me answer that for you, you don't have a clue about the details other than what you read which was the same thing I read. In the end he was found guilty for whatever his involvement was and will be punished accordingly. I still see no reason to make such derogatory statements about his wife and lifestyle. I guess if you don't understand that then I don't know what else to say...


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I accept your apology, thanks for admitting your mistake.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> I accept your apology, thanks for admitting your mistake.


Wanna hug?


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Sure :mrgreen:


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm just saying that there has been quite the evolution for him to have gotten to where he currently is. Or I guess you might call it devolution. Or whatever describes a person who is going through some rough times.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Bo0YaA said:


> I guess if you don't understand that then I don't know what else to say...


A good option at this point would be nothing else. The discussion went ridiculous long ago.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bo0YaA said:


> Oh and Lost....well your name says it all actually..Not sure where you came up with three years of plotting and planing lol. Do you know exactly what his involvement was? Do you know if he pulled the trigger or if he was with a buddy that did and was found guilty because he didn't turn him in? Let me answer that for you, you don't have a clue about the details other than what you read which was the same thing I read. In the end he was found guilty for whatever his involvement was and will be punished accordingly. I still see no reason to make such derogatory statements about his wife and lifestyle. I guess if you don't understand that then I don't know what else to say...


Perhaps you failed to fully read the article on KSL where these 3 did these activities for 3 years that they admitted to. We don't know how much longer, if any, the did these activities but they were convicted of doing them for AT LEAST 3 years.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Ok, to complete this thread....where does SFW or Don Peay fit into all of this? 

I blame the land grab.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

it's selenium deficiencies I tell ya........


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

These poachers suffer from under bite. Or is it over bite? I forget.....


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I think most of them actually don't have enough teeth to make the determination.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I think most of them actually don't have enough teeth to make the determination.


Indeed! Lack of teeth is a direct result of these scrum bag poachers spending so much time licking up road salt during the winter. As a result, people make these poor decisions. Good thing for us these days there is so much toxic road salt it has resulted in 1/4 the population of poachers we had in the early 80s


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

None of this would be an issue if we could shoot those dang horses in the west desert


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Ok so let me get this straight from the last few posts. The reason these guys are poaching is because they have a selenium deficiency and have been licking toxic salts off the roads and are riding wild horses in the west desert? Did I get that straight now....oh yeah and they made a "bad decision" but are really good people....ok there, now I got it, right? :shock:


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

How about this guys? the guys made a mistake,granted probobly one they have made before,and may do again.They were found guilty,and will suffer the consequences.Maybe this will send a message,or maybe not,time will tell.Lets leave the family out of this,hope they learn the lesson and go forward.This is the 9th page on this,and I would like to see it end here.I also would like the fines to be stiffer,but it is what it is.Lets all be nice now and be good boys.Thanks for your understanding.(and quit licking the road sides):grouphug:


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Dunkem said:


> How about this guys? the guys made a mistake,granted probobly one they have made before,and may do again.They were found guilty,and will suffer the consequences.Maybe this will send a message,or maybe not,time will tell.Lets leave the family out of this,hope they learn the lesson and go forward.This is the 9th page on this,and I would like to see it end here.I also would like the fines to be stiffer,but it is what it is.Lets all be nice now and be good boys.Thanks for your understanding.(and quit licking the road sides):grouphug:


No. Not until I think up a witty remark and sneak in and snipe "top of the page". Then you can shut it down. :mrgreen:


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

longbow said:


> No. Not until I think up a witty remark and sneak in and snipe "top of the page". Then you can shut it down. :mrgreen:


Better hurry before Goob beats ya:mrgreen:


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Sorry..............nice guy or not.......mistake or not........I would like to see them get roasted in public. If we could have them on Comedy Central before a live audience it would be all the better for me.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Lost you have defiantly qualified as a guy that likes to run his mouth for the sake of running his mouth. I'm guessing its caused more than one issue in your life.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

That's your opinion but at least I don't go around calling habitual criminals "good guys".


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

wow, 9 pages....when does hunting season start?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Quick! I need something witty.....I think...


Top of the page? aaaaw crap. Ok goob, jump in. it is all yours


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

johnnycake said:


> Quick! I need something witty.....I think...
> 
> Top of the page? aaaaw crap. Ok goob, jump in. it is all yours


nanner nanner nanner-*|*-


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Quick! I need something witty.....I think...
> 
> Top of the page? aaaaw crap. Ok goob, jump in. it is all yours


My guess is these misguided individuals poached all the wolves in Utah. There's just no wolves in Utah anymore.

.


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## riptheirlips (Jun 30, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> My guess is these misguided individuals poached all the wolves in Utah. There's just no wolves in Utah anymore.
> 
> .


I thought there was a video posted of the wolves in Utah. No


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

BooYaA - I haven't been on here for a while - but you are a piece of work. Yea - I heard Darin has had this that and the other financial difficulty. Boo hoo - . Sounds like you only know the Darin that might have been your boss. Just how well do you really know Darin? You on the other hand must be drinking the same kool aide as the trophy hunting group he clings to. Geesh - I have been an avid hunter all of my life - and golly Mr. BooyaA - how many times has Darin had run ins with the law???? Geez yea he sounds like a total stand up guy doesn't he? So are you used to run ins with game wardens? Well are you. Most times criminals stand up for each other and never ever are they guilty. All you are is a cow turd........


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Silverkitten, take it to the p.m.s.
Rules;Please do not post rants, insults, abusive language, personal attacks or ongoing obnoxious behavior.


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

I respect Booya's loyalty. However, with that being said in this day and age anyone who chooses to make bad decisions also choose to be bashed by the entire internet community. It's not a secret that you can and will be bashed.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

silverkitten73 said:


> BooYaA - I haven't been on here for a while - but you are a piece of work. Yea - I heard Darin has had this that and the other financial difficulty. Boo hoo - . Sounds like you only know the Darin that might have been your boss. Just how well do you really know Darin? You on the other hand must be drinking the same kool aide as the trophy hunting group he clings to. Geesh - I have been an avid hunter all of my life - and golly Mr. BooyaA - how many times has Darin had run ins with the law???? Geez yea he sounds like a total stand up guy doesn't he? So are you used to run ins with game wardens? Well are you. Most times criminals stand up for each other and never ever are they guilty. All you are is a cow turd........


We can discuss this in person if you would like to get to know me better friend. Then, you can come to whatever conclusions about me you would like. Until then, your opinion of me means less than the time it took me to type this. Please pm me where you would like to meet for coffee...


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

ultramagfan2000 said:


> I respect Booya's loyalty. However, with that being said in this day and age anyone who chooses to make bad decisions also choose to be bashed by the entire internet community. It's not a secret that you can and will be bashed.


Thank you, and I totally agree. However, this all started when somebody felt it necessary to bring his wife and (exaggerated) lifestyle into it. I simply felt it was totally unnecessary to do so. Never have I once defended his actions and in fact I have done just the opposite. In fact, I will say it yet again for those who had problems understanding it the first 5-6 times. HE DESERVES TO BE PUNISHED TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW FOR HIS INVOLVEMENT IN THESE CRIMES!! He treated me and my family well while I was employed by him. However, that does not mean I would now, or ever support him or anybody else who chooses to illegally harvest an animal. Now I hope I have made myself clear...again...


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