# Wasatch Elk Control Permits???



## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

So it seems everyone I've taked to about the Wasatch unit has purchased an elk control permit. A direct quote from the DWR website states the following, "During the 2014 season, the Division wants hunters to harvest as many antlerless elk as possible from 12 of Utah’s hunting units." I'm not quite sure how to take that statement other than they want to drastically lower the herd numbers on the 12 units. I ask the question why? There's no way under the sun that the elk numbers are too high. I've been hunting the Wasatch West unit for 11 years now. Every year since 2003 I've seen a decline in the elk numbers. It will be interesting to see if that changes after this years slaughter of cows. I really don't get the Utah DWR.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Who's bringing the popcorn??


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

opcorn:


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I hunted the WW this year. I saw more elk than I have in years. I easily saw 100 head over the 5 days I hunted. Saw some bruiser bulls too. Not sure how successful people were with their cow tags though.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

There are plenty of elk in Utah, if you aren't seeing them then hike further into the woods away from the roads and ATV's. Good luck and be safe on your hunt.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Marty,

In the good old days you would see that every 4.5 minutes, not just in 5 days! 

Just finished up the LE muzzy hunt with my brother. My other brother had the same tag last year. Saw a ton of bulls. Many more than last year. Saw 6-7 bulls that were bigger than anything we saw last year. I will concede, however, that I saw A LOT less cows than last year. 

Which begs the question.....will there be any left for me in January?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TS30 said:


> Marty,
> 
> In the good old days you would see that every 4.5 minutes, not just in 5 days!
> 
> ...


Very true. I only saw 2 400" bulls not 17 like back in the day. The unit is in the toilet. I'm never hunting it again.

TS, did your bro get his bull?


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

TS30 said:


> Marty,
> 
> In the good old days you would see that every 4.5 minutes, not just in 5 days!
> 
> ...


If there is enough snow bringing them lower you should see one to shoot.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Opening day in the strawberry valley makes me ashamed to be a hunter...


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

berrysblaster said:


> Opening day in the strawberry valley makes me ashamed to be a hunter...


I think I know what you're talking about and it's not just strawberry. It's why I stayed home on the opener this year.


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

There are decent elk numbers in the Wasatch West unit, however, nothing like 11+ years ago. I just don't understand why the DWR wants to kill off so many elk. I'm no biologist but one thing I know for sure is that the elk are not over populated in the area.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

GSPonPoint said:


> There are decent elk numbers in the Wasatch West unit, however, nothing like 11+ years ago. I just don't understand why the DWR wants to kill off so many elk. I'm no biologist but one thing I know for sure is that the elk are not over populated in the area.


Just curious, but how do you know this?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

GSPonPoint said:


> There are decent elk numbers in the Wasatch West unit, however, nothing like 11+ years ago. I just don't understand why the DWR wants to kill off so many elk. I'm no biologist but one thing I know for sure is that the elk are not over populated in the area.


Only a fraction of those cow tags will be filled. It's not a blood and guts slaughter. I've hunted that unit all my life and think are more elk now. I just don't see it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Perhaps the reason for all the extra tags is that they are not getting the quotas of cows killed that they want and hope that with the extra tags they might get closer.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I know of 10 guys who Boughy CC tags and all went unfilled for the muzzy hunt.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

i would love to go elk hunting again but I never want to hunt during the general elk hunt again. went with my brother this year during the muzzleloader buck hunt, he had a control cow tag. saw lots of elk very close to the road. I almost wish i had the patience with my fellow man to brave another general elk hunt because i suspect alot of people will be bringing home a cow. I just dont have the nerves for the circus anymore.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

35whelen said:


> i would love to go elk hunting again but I never want to hunt during the general elk hunt again. went with my brother this year during the muzzleloader buck hunt, he had a control cow tag. saw lots of elk very close to the road. I almost wish i had the patience with my fellow man to brave another general elk hunt because i suspect alot of people will be bringing home a cow. I just dont have the nerves for the circus anymore.


It's not too bad if you can wait and go during the week. I won't hunt the opening anymore. Most people go home Monday.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

maybe i'll give it a shot next year. save some vacation days n hunt during the week.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

berrysblaster said:


> Opening day in the strawberry valley makes me ashamed to be a hunter...


Don't feel ashamed for actions that are not yours.


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## UTJuice (Oct 2, 2014)

Anyone having success in strawberry sounds like most of the shots are coming from the north


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## trapper12 (Dec 27, 2012)

My buddy and I went to east canyon wmu and heard very few shots except from way south and one person went ballistic and never got anything. We walked all the way back and it was a bust there is no 80000 elk in Utah or over populated in that or any others dwr is full of crap, they just want to get money. I don't get a buck this year I'm gonna spend the $600 next yr for a elk in idaho.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

trapper12 said:


> $600 next yr for a elk in idaho.


I am sure Idaho's DWR will love getting your money....and all of us Utah elk hunters will be glad that you're gone!


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

trapper12 said:


> My buddy and I went to east canyon wmu and heard very few shots except from way south and one person went ballistic and never got anything. We walked all the way back and it was a bust there is no 80000 elk in Utah or over populated in that or any others dwr is full of crap, they just want to get money. I don't get a buck this year I'm gonna spend the $600 next yr for a elk in idaho.


Bye


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Of the 18 head of cows that resided on one particular ridge we saw 4 of them traveling wounded yesterday. Two missing or packing legs, one with half her face blown off and another trailing guts. Not one had any hunters following them.

Mcfly, 100 head in 5 days is a lot? That makes a bunch of sense now...


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> Of the 18 head of cows that resided on one particular ridge we saw 4 of them traveling wounded yesterday. Two missing or packing legs, one with half her face blown off and another trailing guts. Not one had any hunters following them.
> 
> Mcfly, 100 head in 5 days is a lot? That makes a bunch of sense now...


Sorry. This coming from the mossback of the wasatch. Someone who makes $ on our public resource. I've never had an issue with you Berry. Apparently it's not mutual.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

martymcfly73 said:


> TS, did your bro get his bull?


Tag soup. I will one day do a write up and show some pics and video we took. But it's still a little fresh. A handful of close calls, including two gun misfires on a 340+ bull at about 40 yards. Still some sting there.

But it was an awesome experience!


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

martymcfly73 said:


> Sorry. This coming from the mossback of the wasatch. Someone who makes $ on our public resource. I've never had an issue with you Berry. Apparently it's not mutual.


Apparently that came across as crass, I apologize. But it does make sense. 100 head is a lot, but not when you have a population estimate saying that there's nearly double the 5500 they are supposed to have.

It's all perspective mcfly, what you see as plentiful elk I view as evidence of a lack there of. Again sorry I came across to you as rude it wasn't intended.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

berrysblaster said:


> Of the 18 head of cows that resided on one particular ridge we saw 4 of them traveling wounded yesterday. Two missing or packing legs, one with half her face blown off and another trailing guts. Not one had any hunters following them.
> 
> Mcfly, 100 head in 5 days is a lot? That makes a bunch of sense now...


Did you at least call the right people to let them know?? Not sure what can be done about it but the DWR biologist may want to keep track of it.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> Apparently that came across as crass, I apologize. But it does make sense. 100 head is a lot, but not when you have a population estimate saying that there's nearly double the 5500 they are supposed to have.
> 
> It's all perspective mcfly, what you see as plentiful elk I view as evidence of a lack there of. Again sorry I came across to you as rude it wasn't intended.


It's all good. I neglected to state that was in one smallish canyon. No worries. I'm a little bitchy today. Had a flu shot the other day and not feeling too well.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

trapper12 said:


> My buddy and I went to east canyon wmu and heard very few shots except from way south and one person went ballistic and never got anything. We walked all the way back and it was a bust there is no 80000 elk in Utah or over populated in that or any others dwr is full of crap, they just want to get money. I don't get a buck this year I'm gonna spend the $600 next yr for a elk in idaho.


Idaho is more guilty of the tag soup thing than Utah is. If you consider their sportsman packages that they sell I would doubt that 95% of their mountain lion tags ever get filled. I would also doubt that 85% of their bear tags get filled. They also sell their under-drawn non resident bull elk tags over the counter to residents allowing residents to take multiple bull elk in a single calendar year but for the same price that the non-residents pay....

Unit 27 historically has under-drawn bull moose tags year after year. Ask any Idaho resident if they have ever seen a moose in that unit.

I am happy that Utah's Control Tags are not guaranteed meat hunts like the Antelope Island bison hunts. I also don't question the DWR about the surplus of the animals that have been observed on the unit. If you discuss things with a sound biologist you will learn that the hunts are not easy and elk are not evenly spread out like deer. You can't hunt a control tag and see an elk here and there.

You are either in the middle of them or you are skunked. The reason for the control tag as a piggy back tag is so that in the event that you come across a cow elk you can harvest it.

I have a control tag, but I consider it to be the hardest tag to fill in my wallet of 5 tags. (3 of which I have already filled this year) I even consider it to be harder to fill than my "Anybull tag" They are only charging you $30.00 for the tag for heavens sakes! That is a $20.00 discount from a regular antlerless elk tag and you don't lose any preference points. Just because the elk are not where you hoped they would be doesn't mean there is not 80,000 elk in Utah. I have been on hunts where I have seen so many elk that it looks like someone followed them with a tiller or tractor because all of the hoof prints dig up the ground.

I have observed entire mountain sides completely covered with elk. I have also been on way more hunts where I don't see a single elk for 3 days in a row. Deer hunters give the worst reviews of elk hunts because they are used to seeing does here and there and small bucks on every ridge. Elk hunting is not like that. You can't hunt any old ridge and find elk every time. They will be there by the hundreds one day and there will be only a few lost calves the next day and not a single elk the next day.

Post rut the bulls are not with the cows and calves unless you are looking for a spike or a little little raghorn bull. Sometimes you will find loner bulls and sometimes you will find entire herds of bulls. I have also seen rutting behavior in November.

After hunting them for over 15 years I am still a novice and still have a ton to learn. After observing them in the hundreds and even close to thousands during hunts I will never doubt the DWR head counts.

Anyone looking to buy a Control tag as an easy meat tag is going to be disappointed. Easy and elk do not generally go together.

I guess I won't be so hard on my 6 year old daughter next time she complains that I cut her sandwich in triangles instead of squares.... being that there are people on here wanting a refund of their $30.00 after hunting one Saturday with the expectation of seeing 80,000 elk on a Walk in Access Property with 510 acres of year long elk habitat.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

berrysblaster said:


> Of the 18 head of cows that resided on one particular ridge we saw 4 of them traveling wounded yesterday. Two missing or packing legs, one with half her face blown off and another trailing guts. Not one had any hunters following them.
> 
> Mcfly, 100 head in 5 days is a lot? That makes a bunch of sense now...


Sounds like a typical rifle opener. Its frantic shooting at everything brown and follow up on very few shots yet bowhunters get blamed for all the wounding. Sad to see for sure.


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## BYUHunter (Oct 7, 2013)

trapper12 said:


> My buddy and I went to east canyon wmu and heard very few shots except from way south and one person went ballistic and never got anything. We walked all the way back and it was a bust there is no 80000 elk in Utah or over populated in that or any others dwr is full of crap, they just want to get money. I don't get a buck this year I'm gonna spend the $600 next yr for a elk in idaho.


When you asked in your other post about how elk hunting would be in East Canyon, I told you this would be your experience. You cannot buy a general tag and show up on opening day, with nothing but internet scouting under your belt, and expect to be successful. Ain't gonna happen. You can blame the state all you want, but the responsibility lies with you.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

trapper12 said:


> My buddy and I went to east canyon wmu and heard very few shots except from way south and one person went ballistic and never got anything. We walked all the way back and it was a bust there is no 80000 elk in Utah or over populated in that or any others dwr is full of crap, they just want to get money. I don't get a buck this year I'm gonna spend the $600 next yr for a elk in idaho.


What does getting a buck here have to do with elk in Idaho?


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

For those that posted they see boat loads of Elk on the Wasatch please post up locations. It is only helping our Fish and Game control the herds and that is the point of these permitts right????


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

I was just amazed this weekend of all the hunters there was! Hell there was Mini Vans (2) up on Willow Creek Ridge! Just what and the hell would one do if it rained like the week before? 

Did I read someone write they have hunted the Wasatch thier entire life and thinks they are more elk now than there ever has been????

I want to meet this guy... Your just the type guy I am looking for! Can I intrest you in a Bridge in BRIDGELAND Utah. Quit little place just off SR 40! Or would you be looking for some AMWAY?


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

There are no elk on the Wasatch duh


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## UTJuice (Oct 2, 2014)

Hopefully you all don't take them all out. I won't have another chance to get up there until 13th. I saw a couple but they were pretty far off. Most of the sign in the strawberry area looked old. I think when the ranchers moved the sheep and cattle off the moved the herd out as well.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TAK said:


> I was just amazed this weekend of all the hunters there was! Hell there was Mini Vans (2) up on Willow Creek Ridge! Just what and the hell would one do if it rained like the week before?
> 
> Did I read someone write they have hunted the Wasatch thier entire life and thinks they are more elk now than there ever has been????
> 
> I want to meet this guy... Your just the type guy I am looking for! Can I intrest you in a Bridge in BRIDGELAND Utah. Quit little place just off SR 40! Or would you be looking for some AMWAY?


Pleased to meet you. Is the sky falling where you're at? Or do you suffer from eyore syndrome?


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## pintail18 (Jun 16, 2011)

I wouldn't say there are more elk now than ever, but I don't honestly think they are in serious trouble. when I have an elk tag I always seem to be 3 steps behind them when I go out, and when I have a deer tag, I seem to be right in the middle of them. last year on the deer hunt we had 3 different trucks come up to us asking if we had seen elk, and we point right to the spot where we had just backed off of a herd, and all three trucks asked if we had seen any closer to the road since they didn't want to try to pack an elk out that far. There are elk in there, but they aren't always going to fall into the back of your truck for you.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

OMH were just getting warmed up .....

Only 3 days into the general rifle control elk so far ...:!:..

Just wait til the deer hunters start filling control cow elk permits...-O,-..

The leaves are falling fast now, a little snow in a couple weeks they'll REALLY thin those nasty elk herds down......


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

TAK said:


> I want to meet this guy... Your just the type guy I am looking for! Can I intrest you in a Bridge in BRIDGELAND Utah. Quit little place just off SR 40! Or would you be looking for some AMWAY?


There's a few of them on this forum, digg'in a hole to China...:!:.....:grin:..


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

There's also a few idiots who think they know everything and end up looking like morons.  But to each his own.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Another 40k of dirt toward China.............................................


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## NyteFyre22 (Oct 4, 2013)

I've hunted Strawberry two years and current creek for two years. The first three spike hunts, and the last I have a cow tag. I have seen 1 bull, three calves, and one cow, but never anything I had a tag for. I have literally rode for hours each time on the two strawberry hunts and did not encounter a single hunter who filled his tag. I passed hundreds, no joke. We went almost all the way to Spanish Fork Canyon.
I heard a lot of shots one opening morning in Current Creek last year, and scattered shots the other. Whatever elk live in these units are long gone by the time the hunters get there. 
this year I heard they let the sheep stay until a few days before the hunt started and the sheep roundup scattered the elk all over. I think they are intentionally overselling these lands knowing the elk aren't going to be there when the hunters are, and the herds will get by with what is on the Indian Reservation and private lands.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I hunted the Wasatch with my brother last year. Spent a couple of weeks up there. Saw several bulls every day. Saw lots of cows everyday. Countless elk and many big bulls. Filled the tag. Saw a lot of sheep too but saw elk everywhere. I think we were just lucky.....thanks to Tex-O-Bob. He told us right where to go.

What is it he always says......woodsmanship boys?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

That didn't take long goofy. You're usual PM. You're a class act.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I've never hunted the wasatch, but when you find elk you'll find quite a few, and once they're pressured they love the thick woods. I'm sure there's elk there but they may very well sell a lot of tags with the fact there is little success.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I've never hunted the wasatch, but when you find elk you'll find quite a few, and once they're pressured they love the thick woods. I'm sure there's elk there but they may very well sell a lot of tags with the fact there is little success.


yep. Elk will be elk. They can't help it.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I know for sure that the Henry Mountains is one of the units where coming across an elk is going to be a hard thing to do. The DNR is guilty as charged for intentionally overselling the control tags for the Henries. 

But seriously why would anyone complain about the Wasatch? Just wait until the leaves fall. Goofys elk will be like fish in a barrel


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

They don't want elk on the Henry's as far as I know.


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## NyteFyre22 (Oct 4, 2013)

Where do you guys see the elk in Wasatch? So far I have spent a day up Co-op Creek walking ridges and hiking around, the sign looked about a week old. I spent today hiking trout creek ridge, glassing everything for about six hours, and I the place is lousy with deer but I didn't see anything that made me think the elk had been there anytime recently. I drove up co-op creek again today, getting out here and there and climbing to the ridge and glassing for like 10 minutes each time. I know there are Elk up there, but I have had no luck finding them in the last four years.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Not to be captain obvious, but no one responded to my celeb sighting post. Do NONE if you watch KSL Outdoors? Berry filled 4/5 bull tags all 6pt or better during archery. Didnt look like there are no elk up there....

Berry you didnt respond either. Did #5 come back and fill his?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Sorry for all the confusion. Goofy's PM's have set me straight. There are no elk on the Wasatch, sorry for getting your hopes up. And Goof you're right. 99% of us on this forum want your life. I apologize for expressing my opinion .


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

NyteFyre22 said:


> I've hunted Strawberry two years and current creek for two years. The first three spike hunts, and the last I have a cow tag. I have seen 1 bull, three calves, and one cow, but never anything I had a tag for. I have literally rode for hours each time on the two strawberry hunts and did not encounter a single hunter who filled his tag. I passed hundreds, no joke. We went almost all the way to Spanish Fork Canyon.
> I heard a lot of shots one opening morning in Current Creek last year, and scattered shots the other. Whatever elk live in these units are long gone by the time the hunters get there.
> this year I heard they let the sheep stay until a few days before the hunt started and the sheep roundup scattered the elk all over. I think they are intentionally overselling these lands knowing the elk aren't going to be there when the hunters are, and the herds will get by with what is on the Indian Reservation and private lands.


Rode what, ATV's or horses?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> They don't want elk on the Henry's as far as I know.


Correct the objective is 0 elk for the Henries.


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## NyteFyre22 (Oct 4, 2013)

The two years at Strawberry once our morning hunt failed, we relocated with the wheelers, glassed, and then cruised around to see if anyone had filled their tag. A DWR guy said he had seen only one person fill his tag opening morning at Strawberry.

The two years at Current creek we have hiked a few miles in, snuck over ridges and glassed everything we can. I've never seen a spike elk in my life, just huge bulls and cows. I only have a two days to devote to my elk hunt, and two days to devote to my deer hunt, but in four years I have only seen a few people actually fill their tag. The OTC spike and bull tags are filled 6% for bow, 8% for muzzleloader, and 12% for rifle, but the last year they put out numbers was for 2011, and I feel like they are giving out more tags recently.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Yes, the Henry Mountains are for deer and bison and the DWR wants the elk gone from them. The same goes for the San Rafael desert unit.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

NyteFyre22 said:


> The two years at Strawberry once our morning hunt failed, we relocated with the wheelers, glassed, and then cruised around to see if anyone had filled their tag. A DWR guy said he had seen only one person fill his tag opening morning at Strawberry.
> 
> The two years at Current creek we have hiked a few miles in, snuck over ridges and glassed everything we can. I've never seen a spike elk in my life, just huge bulls and cows. I only have a two days to devote to my elk hunt, and two days to devote to my deer hunt, but in four years I have only seen a few people actually fill their tag. The OTC spike and bull tags are filled 6% for bow, 8% for muzzleloader, and 12% for rifle, but the last year they put out numbers was for 2011, and I feel like they are giving out more tags recently.


It's tough when you only have a couple days to hunt. A lot of frustration.


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

NyteFyre22 said:


> The two years at Strawberry once our morning hunt failed, we relocated with the wheelers, glassed, and then cruised around to see if anyone had filled their tag. A DWR guy said he had seen only one person fill his tag opening morning at Strawberry.
> 
> The two years at Current creek we have hiked a few miles in, snuck over ridges and glassed everything we can. I've never seen a spike elk in my life, just huge bulls and cows. I only have a two days to devote to my elk hunt, and two days to devote to my deer hunt, but in four years I have only seen a few people actually fill their tag. The OTC spike and bull tags are filled 6% for bow, 8% for muzzleloader, and 12% for rifle, but the last year they put out numbers was for 2011, and I feel like they are giving out more tags recently.


If I remember the data right, average days spent in the field to fill a spike tag is five or more, depending on unit. Cows are easier, but I guess you just need a a little bit of bad luck for two days to not be enough.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

RandomElk16 said:


> Not to be captain obvious, but no one responded to my celeb sighting post. Do NONE if you watch KSL Outdoors? Berry filled 4/5 bull tags all 6pt or better during archery. Didnt look like there are no elk up there....
> 
> Berry you didnt respond either. Did #5 come back and fill his?


Nope he was our lone unfilled permit this year, it was a very very good year with the bulls.

However, for the 3rd year in a row we struggled to find cows in numbers we are historically used to seeing. I did fare much better this year than last. At last count I was nearly to 500 definitely different cows on the year. Last year I only turned up 240. I refuse to count animals in the same drainage over again. Bulls I'm over 300 on the year with probably 20 that were 340"+


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

This whole thread is laughable.
I took a family friend up after work on a Friday last year. We left SLC at 4 and she had a dead cow at 6 FROM THE ROAD! I had never hunted the wasatch or ever spent time on it until that day. Luck? Maybe... Skill? Not hardly... A Shiite load of elk? Possibly...
After talking to about 25 different road hunters that would stop and answer questions it became clearly obvious that 95%+ of elk hunters never leave their heated truck or mini-van seats and then complain that there are no elk there. I find it hilarious actually. I parked my car in a spot that was between two main basins and low and behold the elk basically walked right to us. You need to think like an elk I guess some times to kill them. They are constantly on the move at the first sign of pressure. We did 3 hikes before we decided to just sit in the car and saw fresh sign on every hike that none of which were more than 1/4 mile from the dirt hwy we were on. If people would just get off the roads in a "likely" looking area and pay attention there would be a lot more elk killed. If you are worried about packing an elk out a 1/4 mile and refuse to even look there then you are not deserving of the tag you have. 
I killed my general bull .66 miles from my car! Yes, just barely a half mile!! That is one of the closest elk to any vehicle I have ever shot. I saw a total of 8 people on the same trail and they mostly came strolling in lollygagging at about 9 am. One group at first light just seconds after i shot my bull. The others I am sure woke up and had a nice big breakfast whilst watching some football on their big screen inside their $100,000 mobile mansion. I slept in the seat of my car. How many times do you see a rack in the bed of one of those set ups or a $20,000 razor? Not very often. Why? Because most people are lazy-asses and don't want to do the work. If you like just camping and driving around then good for you. The people who are willing to put in the time and effort will keep killing the 12% of the elk. I very much like being in the second group myself. Elk tastes much better than that awful paper the tags are printed on. Now I have to get another quarter out of the fridge and cut it up. Good luck out there.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I hunted the Wasatch with my brother last year. Spent a couple of weeks up there. Saw several bulls every day. Saw lots of cows everyday. Countless elk and many big bulls. Filled the tag. Saw a lot of sheep too but saw elk everywhere. I think we were just lucky.....thanks to Tex-O-Bob. He told us right where to go.
> 
> What is it he always says......woodsmanship boys?


Ya ever wonder how he came across this area....???????


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> This whole thread is laughable.
> I took a family friend up after work on a Friday last year. We left SLC at 4 and she had a dead cow at 6 FROM THE ROAD! I had never hunted the wasatch or ever spent time on it until that day. Luck? Maybe... Skill? Not hardly... A Shiite load of elk? Possibly...
> After talking to about 25 different road hunters that would stop and answer questions it became clearly obvious that 95%+ of elk hunters never leave their heated truck or mini-van seats and then complain that there are no elk there. I find it hilarious actually. I parked my car in a spot that was between two main basins and low and behold the elk basically walked right to us. You need to think like an elk I guess some times to kill them. They are constantly on the move at the first sign of pressure. We did 3 hikes before we decided to just sit in the car and saw fresh sign on every hike that none of which were more than 1/4 mile from the dirt hwy we were on. If people would just get off the roads in a "likely" looking area and pay attention there would be a lot more elk killed. If you are worried about packing an elk out a 1/4 mile and refuse to even look there then you are not deserving of the tag you have.
> I killed my general bull .66 miles from my car! Yes, just barely a half mile!! That is one of the closest elk to any vehicle I have ever shot. I saw a total of 8 people on the same trail and they mostly came strolling in lollygagging at about 9 am. One group at first light just seconds after i shot my bull. The others I am sure woke up and had a nice big breakfast whilst watching some football on their big screen inside their $100,000 mobile mansion. I slept in the seat of my car. How many times do you see a rack in the bed of one of those set ups or a $20,000 razor? Not very often. Why? Because most people are lazy-asses and don't want to do the work. If you like just camping and driving around then good for you. The people who are willing to put in the time and effort will keep killing the 12% of the elk. I very much like being in the second group myself. Elk tastes much better than that awful paper the tags are printed on. Now I have to get another quarter out of the fridge and cut it up. Good luck out there.


Well don't be a hater! I have all them things... But I would not call it a big screen TV and at this time of year it is on BASEBALL!!!!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

TAK said:


> Ya ever wonder how he came across this area....???????


NO.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Bottom line is no matter what any of us write here nothing is going to change. At this point the demand is for Deer. Less Elk and you help the Deer out. Ya ever wonder why they don't want Elk on the Henerys? That very reason. 

What I don't get from all you NON-ROAD HUNTERS... why would you let this valuble information out? What would happen if there was not them road hunters. Then all you guys would be shoulder to shoulder with everyone!


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> NO.


Right... take anything for free! Even if its a bucket of qheech! Ya can always take and dump out the qheech and keep the bucket!


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Pleased to meet you. Is the sky falling where you're at? Or do you suffer from eyore syndrome?


Well you going to give us them directions to all these Elk? You seem to want to make sure you do your part is thinning these things out. Hell can you take me! And no I do not suffer from EEYORE syndrome! More like Elephantitas syndrome! They are pretty big!


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Did I really just read lunkerhunter criticizing road hunters for complaining about not seeing elk after he killed one from the truck??


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> Did I really just read lunkerhunter criticizing road hunters for complaining about not seeing elk after he killed one from the truck??


No it was near his CAR, not a truck and it was a half mile he said! Unless he is one of them long range shooters????

I am the only true road hunter here! I have perfected the age old ways of old time hunters! Matter of fact I will not shoot anything that is not on the up hill side of the road so it can role down to the wheeler! I've got a couple more in training also....


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I came to the conclusion that there isn't a cow elk out there worth packing more than 100 yards to a road and vehicle. 

And in the last 10 years I am running right at 50% success rate on cows. Now bulls that is a different story.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> Did I really just read lunkerhunter criticizing road hunters for complaining about not seeing elk after he killed one from the truck??


Not sure which one you are referring to but the bull was not road hunting. The cow was the last 20 minutes of light AFTER we had hiked several times. And i specifically said i was pisitioned in a strategic spot where i was parked. I am not at all opposed to road hunting. If you can kill them from the road then you got it made. It is the people who will never venture from the road biching about not seeing any animals that I have a problem with. And no matter how much info I give about getting out of the vehicles they will still never leave the road. Everyone knows that.
And, I never once complained about not seeing animals.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Critter said:


> I came to the conclusion that there isn't a cow elk out there worth packing more than 100 yards to a road and vehicle.
> 
> And in the last 10 years I am running right at 50% success rate on cows. Now bulls that is a different story.


I think your 100 yard rule is a pretty good idea, the last two cows I've helped pack out were a pain by the time they were back to the truck.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

And all this heat over road hunting is laughable, I've had successful days from the road and away from it. Some days it's all you have time for, but let people road hunt they'll be less successful that way.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Bottom line is each and every individual that purchases a tag has the right to hunt how they want, where they want and when they want within the guidelines set forth by the proclamations.

To each there own.


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

Threads such as these are interesting. I started the thread upon concern about the unlimited number of available control permits as well as the statement by the DWR that they would like to harvest as many cow elk as possible on 12 units which include the Wasatch West and Current Creek areas. This really puzzled me because based on my experience in the area Wasatch area I apparently have a different outlook on population than the DWR seemingly has. Based on my experience I've formed my own opinions which are that over the past decade the overall elk numbers in the Wasatch West unit have significantly declined. I'm no biologist. I only see what I see and hear what I hear from other hunters. I personally am not the type that cruises the roads. I'm an archery hunter that puts a lot of leather down on the mountains hiking around.
Now I'm not saying I have trouble finding elk because I don't. I seen a lot of bulls this year. I seen quite a few cows too, but just not nearly in the numbers of years gone bye.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> This whole thread is laughable.
> I took a family friend up after work on a Friday last year. We left SLC at 4 and she had a dead cow at 6 FROM THE ROAD!oup.


Doesn't the hunt open on Saturday ever single year?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> This whole thread is laughable.
> I took a family friend up after work on a Friday last year. We left SLC at 4 and she had a dead cow at 6 FROM THE ROAD! .





RandomElk16 said:


> Doesn't the hunt open on Saturday ever single year?


Perhaps that is how he got a cow by 6 from the road.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Doesn't the hunt open on Saturday ever single year?


He didn't say he got it on opening day, just that it was a Friday.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> This whole thread is laughable.
> 
> I took a family friend up after work on a Friday last year. We left SLC at 4 and she had a dead cow at 6 FROM THE ROAD!


No what's laughable is that you for some reason think that what happened to you is the norm. In essence that you sir are God's gift to the outdoors. What I read out of that was of 25 people out hunting you got lucky and then dumped on the other 25 for being lazy cause they couldn't find elk. Even after you had been on 3 hikes with out finding success.

1 in 25 having a successful hunt is pretty poor odds, that's assuming that this was the 7th day of the hunt. 7 days of hunting and you couldn't turn up another successful hunter?? No flags there huh?? WAFJ, sorry lunker maybe I read into it wrong but your experience came across as arrogant, stereotypical, and demeaning to others struggles while flaunting your own self proclaimed luck, skill, and fortune.

Like others have said before the question is not if there are elk, there clearly are. The question is how many are there. The mounting reports of dissatisfied hunters says that there aren't as many as the division counts would have you believe. My position is simply that as population estimates have exploded I've suddenly seen fewer elk spread across more terrain. I'd like to know why?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

berrysblaster said:


> I'd like to know why?


The Sasquatches that currently diet on deer, which keeps those populations low have suddenly switched to elk.

-DallanC


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

DallanC said:


> The Sasquatches that currently diet on deer, which keeps those populations low have suddenly switched to elk.
> 
> -DallanC


Dallan dude I'm petrified of squatch! Don't even bring him up!


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

whats with all the "vegetarians" all of a sudden?
I thought we were "meat eaters"...


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

GSPonPoint said:


> Threads such as these are interesting. I started the thread upon concern about the unlimited number of available control permits as well as the statement by the DWR that they would like to harvest as many cow elk as possible on 12 units which include the Wasatch West and Current Creek areas. This really puzzled me because based on my experience in the area Wasatch area I apparently have a different outlook on population than the DWR seemingly has. Based on my experience I've formed my own opinions which are that over the past decade the overall elk numbers in the Wasatch West unit have significantly declined. I'm no biologist. I only see what I see and hear what I hear from other hunters. I personally am not the type that cruises the roads. I'm an archery hunter that puts a lot of leather down on the mountains hiking around.
> Now I'm not saying I have trouble finding elk because I don't. I seen a lot of bulls this year. I seen quite a few cows too, but just not nearly in the numbers of years gone bye.


My opinion it has only been on the decline for the last 3 or 4 years. In 2010 there was what I would call a PLETHERA of Elk on the South East side of the unit. But with all the cow tags the last few years that has been cut well below half from what I see.

I agree that there is still elk on the unit, but the unlimited cow tags are not needed. Yes hunters should be the ones that get to control the sizes but to go unlimited and then in the end go OPPS we went to far. Is not good management.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> Doesn't the hunt open on Saturday ever single year?


pm... I never said what time or which friday. It was the second weekend after she had issues with drunks in her camp the first 5 days. pretty sure the post I made is around here somewhere.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> No what's laughable is that you for some reason think that what happened to you is the norm. In essence that you sir are God's gift to the outdoors. What I read out of that was of 25 people out hunting you got lucky and then dumped on the other 25 for being lazy cause they couldn't find elk. Even after you had been on 3 hikes with out finding success.
> 
> 1 in 25 having a successful hunt is pretty poor odds, that's assuming that this was the 7th day of the hunt. 7 days of hunting and you couldn't turn up another successful hunter?? No flags there huh?? WAFJ, sorry lunker maybe I read into it wrong but your experience came across as arrogant, stereotypical, and demeaning to others struggles while flaunting your own self proclaimed luck, skill, and fortune.
> 
> Like others have said before the question is not if there are elk, there clearly are. The question is how many are there. The mounting reports of dissatisfied hunters says that there aren't as many as the division counts would have you believe. My position is simply that as population estimates have exploded I've suddenly seen fewer elk spread across more terrain. I'd like to know why?


No I said it was all luck. Maybe I worded what I was trying to say wrong.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> My position is simply that as population estimates have exploded I've suddenly seen fewer elk spread across more terrain. I'd like to know why?


So, you come on here to get your answers? Have you made any phone calls to the biologists who do the counts on the units you are so worried about? Have you asked them these questions?

If you haven't, then your whole questioning merely sounds like sour grapes to me...and you are really only wanting to complain and not find answers.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> So, you come on here to get your answers? Have you made any phone calls to the biologists who do the counts on the units you are so worried about? Have you asked them these questions?
> 
> If you haven't, then your whole questioning merely sounds like sour grapes to me...and you are really only wanting to complain and not find answers.


The short answer to that is yes, I've spent time with the biologists, in rac and WB meetings. In the field classifying cow calf ratios for 3 and a half straight days this summer. That was eye opening for the biologists to say the least. They couldn't find the elk they needed to get an accurate classification, but the answer was always the same, 'we flew it'. 'The elk are there because we flew it' time after time after time.

After the classification this summer they are going to do a collar study to determine where they go, in short because they sure weren't where they should have been. At least not in the numbers they needed to see. So ya wyo I have been the the necessary channels


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I've met, and visited with DWR personnel on this issue as-well ..

The coversation I had a few days ago, the topic of how many control permits
have been sold, Far more than expected.

It wouldn't surpise me to see some real damage done a couple weeks from now.
Leaves will be off the trees and if we get some weather things could get crazy..
6000 rifle deer hunters hiting the Wasatch unit hills..
Places like Timp could see half the elk heard hit the ground................JMHO.


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## Redman82 (Apr 12, 2012)

Scary thought goofy. I hope it all works out.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

maybe is a few years we have another any bull area to hunt.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)




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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

longbow said:


>


Probably the most relevant thing posted in this thread


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

berrysblaster said:


> Probably the most relevant thing posted in this thread


Well Berry, I don't know squat about the Wasatch elk and I really wanted to join in the thread. This was the only thing I had. And I got top of the page! (I enjoy your posts BTW), Chuck.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

just piss poor management. I mean come on the fact that there is not even a number of tags to manage. tells you all you need to know. I don't care what anybody says bottom line is there are far fewer elk. anyone can bring success percentages into this argument but how the hell do you know what that percentage is if you don't even know how many tags you are going to sale duh . and I have a feeling the dwr took the better to ask for forgivness than ask for permission approach on this one.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

You know elk can be hard to find , but I do recall the Fishlake massacre not so many years ago where the DWR gave out hundreds upon hundreds of tags for a few years in a row and then went oooops when they had already sold FAR TOO MANY cow tags and had to recall and refund those who got them because they knew the damage it would do to the herd. Now there's plenty on here that completely stand by the DWR, but that year was proof the DWR have out far too many tags and had to recall them because of bad weather. Well the weather didn't change the "ever so accurate population count" now did it, no that was an uhh oh moment where there "over estimation" and over tagging would have been a TKO. So like I said, elk can be hard to find(especially when they're not there) but if you don't think $$$ pressure tag sells, your oblivious to the world we live in goodnight .


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## trapper12 (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks deer that's the point I was making and got told to piss off pretty much. I don't know a **** person that has got a elk during this hunt.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> You know elk can be hard to find , but I do recall the Fishlake massacre not so many years ago where the DWR gave out hundreds upon hundreds of tags for a few years in a row and then went oooops when they had already sold FAR TOO MANY cow tags and had to recall and refund those who got them because they knew the damage it would do to the herd. Now there's plenty on here that completely stand by the DWR, but that year was proof the DWR have out far too many tags and had to recall them because of bad weather. Well the weather didn't change the "ever so accurate population count" now did it, no that was an uhh oh moment where there "over estimation" and over tagging would have been a TKO. So like I said, elk can be hard to find(especially when they're not there) but if you don't think $$$ pressure tag sells, your oblivious to the world we live in goodnight .


The fish lake "massacre" is always the poster child for these arguments....just curious 1-I how is the fish lake herd doing these days? Since that "massacre" how many more cow elk have been harvested and how quickly did the unit rebound to where cow elk tags were again issued? Sorry, but the doom and gloom just doesn't make sense to me...!


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> The fish lake "massacre" is always the poster child for these arguments....just curious 1-I how is the fish lake herd doing these days? Since that "massacre" how many more cow elk have been harvested and how quickly did the unit rebound to where cow elk tags were again issued? Sorry, but the doom and gloom just doesn't make sense to me...!


What a joke of an attitude sorry wyo, I try to be cordial rather than come across as an armchair hero but seriously?? So what your saying is it's Ok for the division to screw up and as a result lose hunting opportunities cause they can just fix it in a few years time?? Who gives a hoot about accountability with public assets let people do as they wish and we can just reap the consequences!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Answer my questions above? how much opportunity was really lost, if any? That was my point...you act all doom and gloom, but in the end really NOTHING was ever lost with the big Fish Lake "massacre"! In the wasatch's case, you are calling doom and gloom BEFORE any "massacre" has ever happened!


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> The fish lake "massacre" is always the poster child for these arguments....just curious 1-I how is the fish lake herd doing these days? Since that "massacre" how many more cow elk have been harvested and how quickly did the unit rebound to where cow elk tags were again issued? Sorry, but the doom and gloom just doesn't make sense to me...!


POSTER CHILD? I would call it HISTORY. Ya seen it did not work then, even though the herd might or has bounced back? I don't know I am not aware of that unit so to say. Mistakes are to be learning tools right? I guess it was to long ago to remember so they try it again with UNLIMITED tags...


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> The fish lake "massacre" is always the poster child for these arguments....just curious 1-I how is the fish lake herd doing these days? Since that "massacre" how many more cow elk have been harvested and how quickly did the unit rebound to where cow elk tags were again issued? Sorry, but the doom and gloom just doesn't make sense to me...!


You don't understand that, it isn't excusable. THEY RECALLED HUNDREDS OF TAGS, that means they made a big mistake and their "sound science" and "sound statistical data" that you and a few others speak of was so far off, they had to really say whoops and pull back tags they knew would end up slaughtering that herd to a point it would have been a real loss in opportunity. The elk herd is doing okay now, but it didn't suffer for a year or two and had they not recalled those tags they shouldn't have sold in the first place, it would have been wiped out that year with the snow that came before the hunts. Whether you like it or not this was a glitch that showed there numbers aren't always right, they oversold tags, and didn't use the best management practices they should have. You sit here and continue to try and excuse it, and act like they have to be right in every other situation, when in reality they could very well be overselling tags for elk that just aren't there and elk herds who can't handle the amount of pressure being put on them. Cow tags IMO have gotten out of hand in the last few years. The deer were there cash cow, now that deer tags have dropped they've made that money up on anterless elk tags. I do believe anterless hunts are very effective tools for managing herds, but that doesn't always mean that the sale of them is a good managing tool. Money drives a lot of things wyo, and excuses can keep being excuses, but money also plays a huge roll in the DWR, and the more of it the better I can guarantee that. The state wants revenue and economics. The wildlife need sound management that isn't swayed by money or political agendas which is not the world we live in, don't pretend that it is.

And so what the fishlake herd bounced back, it shouldn't have been slaughtered to what could have been the brink in the first place. Because it bounced back isn't a good excuse for ****ty management so they could sell hundreds more cow tags at $50 a pop.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> Answer my questions above? how much opportunity was really lost, if any? That was my point...you act all doom and gloom, but in the end really NOTHING was ever lost with the big Fish Lake "massacre"! In the wasatch's case, you are calling doom and gloom BEFORE any "massacre" has ever happened!


That's impossible to answer how many potential antlerless permits were lost over the three years of recovery?? No one can know, what we do know is that people lost hunting opportunities over those years...

Again what a sorry attitude, it's perfectly fine to mismanage a public asset with complete disregard for consequences...


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Sorry, but most of the time when tags are recalled it is not because of science or any "massacre" it is because of social pressure and social reasons.

Again, answer my original questions: 1) how long before cow tags were issued again? 2) how long were hunters unable to hunt that unit? 3) how long before elk numbers were back to what they were pre-"massacre"?

You and others act like we, as hunters, lost a whole lot. But, the truth is that we really didn't lose anything. Are mistakes made? Yep...because we are talking about an inexact science. The idea that money is driving the sell of tags is absolutely stupid....


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Sorry, but most of the time when tags are recalled it is not because of science or any "massacre" it is because of social pressure and social reasons.
> 
> Again, answer my original questions: 1) how long before cow tags were issued again? 2) how long were hunters unable to hunt that unit? 3) how long before elk numbers were back to what they were pre-"massacre"?
> 
> You and others act like we, as hunters, lost a whole lot. But, the truth is that we really didn't lose anything. Are mistakes made? Yep...because we are talking about an inexact science. The idea that money is driving the sell of tags is absolutely stupid....


Of course I'm sure there was so much social pressure to recall cow tags that year. It was terrible management and the fact the herd was to far killed off. Your idea of excuse it because of recovery is a joke. It shouldn't be being managed to kill far too many and then just hope they recover, that isn't a viable excuse.

As for money, your right $78 million a year for the state/DWR economy isn't even something to blink an eye at is it? I'm sure they wouldn't mind if they only got $50 million one year now would they? Money drives everything, including wildlife management.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Yeah...and I am sure the individual biologists who are doing the counting for the individual units are really trying hard to fudge their counts to increase the tags for their individual units so that our economy doesn't suffer, right? And, I am sure--since the DWR doesn't set tag numbers but only recommends them--that the DWR has found a way to hoodwink the WB members into making sure that they tag numbers will keep our economy robust and that the DWR's pockets are lined enough, right? Come on, 1-I, do you really believe that pile of garbage?

The truth, 1-I, whether you are willing to admit it or not is that the big "massacre" on Fish Lake wasn't really a "massacre" at all...and I am willing to bet the same thing can be said about the Wasatch. Good heck, how many years of this "sky is falling" talk on the Wasatch have we heard from Goofy and his friends?


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

Heres an idea...
How about you(whoever is thinking the elk herd size is hurting) rent a helicopter and count elk heads(video tape it...and post it here)...Im pretty sure the DWR does this...But judging elk herd size off of what you see in the field while on the ground hunting for maybe 3 weeks? is a BAD way to try and estimate elk herd size. Now if you spent 365 days in the forest searching for elk maybe you'd be able to count them elk heads but it'd be tough to not double count the cows without a helicopter to count them all in 1 day.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Yeah...and I am sure the individual biologists who are doing the counting for the individual units are really trying hard to fudge their counts to increase the tags for their individual units so that our economy doesn't suffer, right? And, I am sure--since the DWR doesn't set tag numbers but only recommends them--that the DWR has found a way to hoodwink the WB members into making sure that they tag numbers will keep our economy robust and that the DWR's pockets are lined enough, right? Come on, 1-I, do you really believe that pile of garbage?
> 
> The truth, 1-I, whether you are willing to admit it or not is that the big "massacre" on Fish Lake wasn't really a "massacre" at all...and I am willing to bet the same thing can be said about the Wasatch. Good heck, how many years of this "sky is falling" talk on the Wasatch have we heard from Goofy and his friends?


Money doesn't designate the entire process, but do you think they would so far under tag that they weren't getting there revenue? It's too important, too many jobs depend on that revenue. It is somewhat politically and economically driven.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

phorisc said:


> Heres an idea...
> How about you(whoever is thinking the elk herd size is hurting) rent a helicopter and count elk heads(video tape it...and post it here)...Im pretty sure the DWR does this...But judging elk herd size off of what you see in the field while on the ground hunting for maybe 3 weeks? is a BAD way to try and estimate elk herd size. Now if you spent 365 days in the forest searching for elk maybe you'd be able to count them elk heads but it'd be tough to not double count the cows without a helicopter to count them all in 1 day.


I spend time in the field every week, I look off the road and away from it . I don't see as many elk around the areas I go, although there are still decent populations. I can't speak for the wasatch other than year after year it seems like a lot of cow tags, but I'm aside from the situation so I don't know on it.


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Money doesn't designate the entire process, but do you think they would so far under tag that they weren't getting there revenue? It's too important, too many jobs depend on that revenue. It is somewhat politically and economically driven.


If the money only paid salaries perhaps you'd be on to something...


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Money doesn't designate the entire process, but do you think they would so far under tag that they weren't getting there revenue? It's too important, too many jobs depend on that revenue. It is somewhat politically and economically driven.


Again, though, you are saying, "they". Who is "they"? The DWR? Who sets tag numbers....? Remember, it is NOT the DWR! They only recommend tag numbers.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I spend time in the field every week, I look off the road and away from it . I don't see as many elk around the areas I go, although there are still decent populations. I can't speak for the wasatch other than year after year it seems like a lot of cow tags, but I'm aside from the situation so I don't know on it.


That's just it....you are on the ground. The Wasatch was flown last spring in a helicopter. The elk were physically 1x1 counted and classified from a helicopter. Who are you going to believe from a numbers standpoint--the guy in a helicopter or the guy on the ground? Personally, I believe the guy in a helicopter.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> That's just it....you are on the ground. The Wasatch was flown last spring in a helicopter. The elk were physically 1x1 counted and classified from a helicopter. Who are you going to believe from a numbers standpoint--the guy in a helicopter or the guy on the ground? Personally, I believe the guy in a helicopter.


There's reasonable numbers of elk , I can't speak for the wasatch though. I have seen a decline in elk numbers around the units I hunt and visit though. Again I'm not in any worry of it substantially hurting populations in the areas I hunt but I don't think you need to constantly keep elk on the rebound because a group of landowners are upset and have no regard for wildlife.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> There's reasonable numbers of elk , I can't speak for the wasatch though. I have seen a decline in elk numbers around the units I hunt and visit though. Again I'm not in any worry of it substantially hurting populations in the areas I hunt but I don't think you need to constantly keep elk on the rebound because a group of landowners are upset and have no regard for wildlife.


I was just thinking about the impact that depredation tags must have on the Wasatch elk herds, I'm sure that has a bit to do with current numbers.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

30-06-hunter said:


> I was just thinking about the impact that depredation tags must have on the Wasatch elk herds, I'm sure that has a bit to do with current numbers.


I'm sure it doesn't help. Why is it the select few get there way and the general public have to suffer. Many landowners elude to terrible damage when in reality not much is being done. In some cases yes, but in most cases it is simply because they don't like wildlife around.


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I'm sure it doesn't help. Why is it the select few get there way and the general public have to suffer. Many landowners elude to terrible damage when in reality not much is being done. In some cases yes, but in most cases it is simply because they don't like wildlife around.


could be they want the meat too...if you get like 4 elk tags for depredation thats alot of meat to pack away


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

phorisc said:


> could be they want the meat too...if you get like 4 elk tags for depredation thats alot of meat to pack away


Or all the good ole boys have to do is worry about stupid things and bitch.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Are these the same good ole boys that write notes on napkins at the diner, or are these other ones?


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Are these the same good ole boys that write notes on napkins at the diner, or are these other ones?


Snap!


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Whammo!!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Are these the same good ole boys that write notes on napkins at the diner, or are these other ones?


That napkin is included in every Utah big game proclamation. And these are those who have little regard to wildlife in the face of cattle .


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

wyoming2utah said:


> Sorry, but most of the time when tags are recalled it is not because of science or any "massacre" it is because of social pressure and social reasons.
> .


Tell that to the antelope on the Parker.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> That's just it....you are on the ground. The Wasatch was flown last spring in a helicopter. The elk were physically 1x1 counted and classified from a helicopter. Who are you going to believe from a numbers standpoint--the guy in a helicopter or the guy on the ground? Personally, I believe the guy in a helicopter.


Ding! Ding! Ding! we have the winner! And this is how you end up with all the numbers out of wack! Prior counts was done by fix wing plane. A bit harder to count flying over.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

hard to tell which elk reside on private grounds and public grounds during the winter months from a plane. half these elk the dwr count are from wolf creek ranch, and all of the other cwmu's in the area there summer range is all private property . so why not make the land owners give out more tags as well. if the elk are that over objective. why wipe out all the public land herd but still allow the land owners to charge thousands of dollars for their tags. give out more cwmu permits to the public if there are to many elk cow and bull. It totally scews the numbers that they count


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