# "we got a few shots off"



## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

I seen a couple of bow hunters in the dairy keen in Heber yesterday for lunch, asked them how their morning went. Their reply " didnt get anything, but we got a few shots off." !!! Is it just me, or perhaps the style of hunting I practice, or my raising, or my conscience, but this really rubbed me wrong. Anybody else? 

I laughed at the guys and told them I remember when I first started bowhunting(they blushed). I told them that you have to learn somewhere long they way, i guess. (they blushed some more). I then told them if they have the time/money to invest in their fancy camo, and face paint the least they could do was take a few hours and learn how to shoot/sight in their bows. (They walked away). 
I dont know, maybe Im making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Am I? 

& to the guys if your reading this(you know who you are)- Ill pay for a lesson for both of you. Id teach you myself, but I shoot a recurve, and I know thatll defiantly be to much for you if you cant even work your training wheels. Baby steps right? let me know.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

blackbear said:


> I seen a couple of bow hunters in the dairy keen in Heber yesterday for lunch, asked them how their morning went. Their reply " didnt get anything, but we got a few shots off." !!! Is it just me, or perhaps the style of hunting I practice, or my raising, or my conscience, but this really rubbed me wrong. Anybody else?
> 
> I laughed at the guys and told them I remember when I first started bowhunting(they blushed). I told them that you have to learn somewhere long they way, i guess. (they blushed some more). I then told them if they have the time/money to invest in their fancy camo, and face paint the least they could do was take a few hours and learn how to shoot/sight in their bows. (They walked away).
> I dont know, maybe Im making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Am I?
> ...


So help me understand the point that you are trying to make. I'm not an archer so maybe I'm up in the night on this. Do you have a problem with some guys slinging some arrows and missing? Can't you still be a good hunter with good intentions and miss a few shots here and there? Heck if archery hunting was that easy I think everyone would be doing it. :roll: From the way you make it sound, you have a problem with them because they answered you honestly and they didn't hit the deer without missing. Not quite sure what you are upset about or why you would be upset! Just curious.


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## Broadhead (Mar 2, 2008)

A bit of over reaction on your part I think. They may practice all the time but they just cant control their buck fever. I know I have issues with that. If they never practice shooting it may be justified. But is missing not just part of the game?


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I shoot at least twice a week, all year long, mostly 3-D and have missed plenty of times, due to misjudgment, buck fever and being too drunk to shoot. Ok he last one was just to be funny, but just because someone misses, doesn't make them an unethical or unpracticed hunter. I admire someone who can be honest and simply say "I missed", rather than brushing away accountability and blaming it on a tree branch, "my site got knocked off in camp" :roll: or it being the animals fault.

Get down from your horsey little bear, we still love you. :wink:


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## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

UintaMan said:


> So help me understand the point that you are trying to make. I'm not an archer so maybe I'm up in the night on this. Do you have a problem with some guys slinging some arrows and missing? Can't you still be a good hunter with good intentions and miss a few shots here and there? Heck if archery hunting was that easy I think everyone would be doing it. :roll: From the way you make it sound, you have a problem with them because they answered you honestly and they didn't hit the deer without missing. Not quite sure what you are upset about or why you would be upset! Just curious.


One word- SLOP. Archery is not about lobbing arrows. Its about knowing you have completed this shot before, and can do it again. With that said, we all miss. But still, if you miss, you must learn from that, and work on that shot on the range, not another deer the same morning. dont wanna look like this to the deer-  . Deer looks like this- :lol: :roll: .


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think what he is getting at is that they have not practiced adequately. I hear of these types of guys regularly and it irks me, it is one thing for a rifle hunter to sight in only once, but for an archer to have not even shot with broadheads that season, only once or twice with field tips, is ethically irresponsible period! I am with you on this one Blackbear I already gave my full rant under 1I's thread of a similar topic.


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

So blackbear are you saying you have never missed more than one shot in a day? Are you saying you have never missed? Are you saying because you shoot a recurve you understand better the principles of archery? Are you saying compound shooters are slop hunters? IN you post you never make it clear that they were lobbing arrows, or wounded deer. Was this part of the problem?

Your post comes off extremely, self righteous and is offensive. If you would like to curtrail the problem a better way might be to come on and discuss what you have a nissue with and some possible solutions. As it is you totally lost me as to the content of your post.

I will however take you up on the lessons, the best instructor I ever had shoots a recurve. I am sure you could teach me a lot. However after the lesson I wonder if you would be willing to go $5.00 an arrow closest to the center me and my training wheels against you and your recurve. It appears you have no question about your accuracy.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

To me blackbear comes off as a snob. I think he read into the whole thing too much. From some good ol' boy's casual response he assumed that he hadn't practiced. Chill out a little. It seems like you could be a little more humble.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

On the other hand I was in fairview yesterday. I stopped at the local cafe and was listening to the locals discuss their latest and greatest hunting stories. One fellow mentioned that it took him 8 shots into a bush before he realized it wasn't a buck. I think it is safe to rag on a guy like that. What do you think????


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

blackbear. so who made you the archery GOD?? so you seen a few guys who were out having a good time and happened to miss on a few shots. wow missed like that has never been done before. dont be so critical of these guys. nothing wrong with missing...


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I think I know where Blackbear is coming from. We all miss. But "we got a lots of shots" that just screams poor hunting/shooting skills. It's hard not to say something critical about these types of hunters and not come across as snobby and self righteous. Black bear just chose to open his mouth instead of keep it closed... Not sure it was a good idea, but at least he spoke his mind.

*Slop* is right on the head.

I've dealt with these types of bowhunters while biting down hard on my tongue more than I care to say. Try working archery retail for nine years and see if you don't come up with the same cynical outlook on the "we got lots of shots" guy. I can't count the times I had a guy standing at the counter saying, "I need a dozen Game Getters and a dozen more Satelite 4 blades for the weekend." I'd say, "what happened to the dozen I sold you last week?" He'd say, "I shot em all! Hit three and couldn't find them so we're going back up tonight." :roll: Jezzus Cripes!!! I wanted to strangle those guys! But all I could do is stand behind that counter and paint a smile on my face as they went happily on their way with quiver full of new "maimers".

I carry *4* arrows in my quiver. If I shot three of them at critters and didn't have one dead I'd put the forth one in my wrist. It's called bowhunting, not arrow shooting. Get close, and make the shot count, it really is that simple.

Yes, I am a self righteous snobby recurve shooter, and I approve this message. 8) Now you all can flame me too instead of just poor ol Blackbear.


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm going to have to defend Blackbear here a bit. Yes misses happen. Luckily I have never released an arrow at a big game animal that missed. But I understand how it could happen. I personally never release until I am confident it will connect. 

I can understand how he was offended by this groups comments. And for as much as people on this forum jump all over others for petty things like over reacting, or holding a little high. I don't know how you couldn't take offense to what htis group said. We talk constantly about correct terms like harvest instead of kill. To make it more acceptable in other social circles.

Then we jump all over someone for defending what he thought was someone making a sport he loves look bad. Imagine if they had said these things people that don't view our hobbies as we do. I personally have been offended by many archery hunters over the years not because of there hunting methods but because they have no idea what they are doing political to the future of MY hunting oppurtunities. Could he have been more tolerable? Maybe. Could they have been smarter? Hopefully.


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Yes, I am a self righteous snobby *compound*shooter, and I approve this message. 8) Now you all can flame me too instead of just poor ol Blackbear.


+1 except I had to adjust your wordage to fit my use


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I think I know where Blackbear is coming from. We all miss. But "we got a lots of shots" that just screams poor hunting/shooting skills. It's hard not to say something critical about these types of hunters and not come across as snobby and self righteous. Black bear just chose to open his mouth instead of keep it closed... Not sure it was a good idea, but at least he spoke his mind.
> 
> *Slop* is right on the head.
> 
> ...


Well stated +1! Getting a few shots off, I read a lot more into that than just missing; so you injured how many animals that will die in the coming weeks from gangrene? Several misses in one day! I have never heard of a good explanation to this phenomenon!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > I think I know where Blackbear is coming from. We all miss. But "we got a lots of shots" that just screams poor hunting/shooting skills. It's hard not to say something critical about these types of hunters and not come across as snobby and self righteous. Black bear just chose to open his mouth instead of keep it closed... Not sure it was a good idea, but at least he spoke his mind.
> ...


There is definitely a difference between "missing" and repetitively taking stupid shots. I agree.


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## buggsz24 (Mar 18, 2008)

I think blackbear is right. Some people don't have the intelligence or the upbringing to know when they are being idiots, sometimes its necessary to point it out to them.

Remember this isn't a stick and ball sport where it doesn't matter if you suck as a result of lack of practice, as a "real" hunter you should respect the game you pursue and take necessary measures to ensure that you have done everything possible to put it down in the most humane way possible. 

It's not about being a snob or a bleeding heart, it's about respecting the sport and the animal.


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

So my reply to all of those who defend the judgement:

Have you ever missed?

Truemule you say you have never missed, how many animals have you taken without missing?

I "missed" a (1) bull elk 4 times in one day at very reasonable distances and wide open, could have it been easy for me to make a casual comment such as these bowhunters I believe it could have. Very easy at that point in my learning curve, because although I missed, I was proud of the fact that I was able to call and stalk within bow range of a bull elk. Now on the learning curve I would be extremely emberassed to admit I missed. However I am not emberassed to discuss it here as a learning aid. I hope that the aforementioned bowhunters are listensing and learning. I do not beleive we need to shame though. 

Of course this is the day I hung up my recurve, I realized that regardless how well I shot it or enjoyed it I would be more accurate with a compound sights and release. So to me it is very offensive that someone goes into the field with a less accurate weapon. Should I jump on the web everytime someone talks about using their "stickbow" tell them they are slop's or should I educate them to be the best they possibly can be with what they choose and support them in thier choice. 

If these folks were talking of wounding game I definetly would have been sitting at their table discussing principles of bowhunting, and shot selection. I imagine after some coercing I would have them loaded in my truck to go back and look for the animal. During the ride maybe we could discuss again correct bowhunting principles rather than whining on a public site.

But the story told is they simply missed and I put my money on that we all have been there. They were just foolish enough to tell the wrong person.


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## buggsz24 (Mar 18, 2008)

I really don't think that the rant was about missing, and my problem isn't with people who miss. The problem is with people who take unethical shots (shots they can't make 95% of the time) , people who don't practice or people who are just too cavalier about the taking of game. 

Missing is expected, but it should be an opportunity to get better, not a gauge for your success. 

The extended archery quiz covers the topic of discussing wounded and non recovered animals because it makes ALL archers look bad to those who don't archery hunt.

Just because you can't hit anything with a recurve doesn't mean that there aren't others who can, I for one wont ever attempt to take game with one.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Black bear you cant tell me that you dont miss at 35 yards or so. You dont know how farr of a shoot they where shooting at the deer or if it was up hill or down hill. To me it sound like you think you are some awesome bow hunter. I missed a shot every year and I missed 7 times last year. so you Tell me Im bad hunter for missing all of my shoots ?Your post was uncalled for and you got a proublom if you get rub wrong when people tell you that they missed there shoots. If I an in to you and told you missed a couple shoots and then you come on here and do what you did that just wrong. You should not worry if some body missed there shoots. look it this way that deer can leave another day or another year and get bigger.Your post RUB me wrong.


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## BIGBEAN (Apr 16, 2008)

blackbear wrote:


> Their reply " didnt get anything, but we got a few shots off."


How can you judge them from the reply above. If you weren't there and don't know the circumstances you shouldn't read anything into that wasn't said. I think it was an over reaction on your part.

Are you sure they were blushing or were they turning red from trying not to explode and kick a littl bear butt?

I know I would be upset if someone made judgements about me with out knowing more than "didnt get anything, but we got a few shots off." -)O(-


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Dustin, _why_ did you miss seven times last year?

Inexperience, distance, wind, animal moved, poor shooting, uphill, downhill, obstructions, too dark, too bright, etc. etc. So you missed seven times, did you have any desire to get better? Did you learn from those misses? These are the things that will help gain or lose respect from your fellow hunters. If it were me, I'd keep that info under my hat and just try to get better. Better at shooting, distance judging, stalking, everything. We owe that much to the animals we hunt. Respect for one another as hunters starts with the respect we show the animals we chase. "Gettin a bunch of shots" means nothing to me if you don't make *every one* of those shots count. Yes, you'll miss, but it will nearly *always* be *your* fault.

The last time I missed three shots in a row at a critter was my first hunt when I was 16. If I ever do that again it will be time to hang it up.



> Of course this is the day I hung up my recurve, I realized that regardless how well I shot it or enjoyed it I would be more accurate with a compound sights and release. So to me it is very offensive that someone goes into the field with a less accurate weapon. Should I jump on the web everytime someone talks about using their "stickbow" tell them they are slop's or should I educate them to be the best they possibly can be with what they choose and support them in thier choice.


Good points.

I've always said. Shooting a stick bow is *NOT* an excuse for shooting poorly. My arrows go right where I'm looking. When I draw on a critter he's usually in big trouble. I don't draw very often, but when I do I'm sure I can make a clean kill. Does it happen every time, of course not. I'll never be happy with any kill/maim ratio. We like to kill every time.

I've also always said. Shooting a compound is not an excuse for taking long, low percentage, stupid shots. Just because you shoot a hotshot speed bow and can hit a dime at 100 yards does not make you an effective killing machine.

No matter what weapon we choose we should always try to get as close as we can, know our limitations and take shots based on that info.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

I just thought it was snobby, wasn't it?







Chances are the story was a little exaggerated. Bigbear probably thought we would all give him a big pat on the back for his heroics. He didn't do the right thing. You won't win anyone over with those types of tactics. Nobody on here disagrees that you should make your shots count and that you should try to always be "super ethical, respect the animals and the great spirit guy." But don't be such a dick. That's all.


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

So I guess since I missed a shot at 54 yds at a 27" 3x4 this year because a branch that I didn't see makes me a unethical hunter? Even though I have made that shot hundreds of times previously. I guess I will just stop hunting because I dont shoot a recurve and dont practice enouph. :? 









Fat Chance! I will hunt till I die or cant afford it, what ever comes first! :mrgreen: 

Just because I miss does not mean I am unethical! (Just didn't see the freakin stupid branch) :evil: :evil:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I took a 12 yard shot at a buck last year and missed because of a stick. I'm such an unethical basturd! :mrgreen: Sticks happen.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> I just thought it was snobby, wasn't it?


Yup. A little snobby. But not to far off base. He probably could have used a little more tact.


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## apollosmith (Jun 29, 2008)

I think it depends on how you interpret the comments. From the way it was presented, the hunters sounded more irresponsible than anything else.

If it had been rifle hunters that said, "We saw a few at 800 yards and popped off a couple shots as they went over the hill." would you consider this irresponsible or just bad luck???


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Anybody need a hug?

I carry 4 arrows, one of which is a bird point.

I practice continually and shoot pretty good; know my limits. But I still miss: buck fever, deflected arrows, animal jumps the string. Part of hunting, no big deal.


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## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

I appreciate everyones advise/responses. If you reread my original post, you can see that I wasnt asking to critique my conversation and approach with the hunters(Ill never change my belligerent ways thank you very much), I was asking if any other archers had a problem with taking "a few missed shots" in a single day(not your whole life or season), it seems very suspect to me. But oh well, not everyone agrees, but Im sure glad some do. Oh yeah, and idiot(no pun intended), perhaps you too could use some of my tactfulness in your responses rather than resorting to personal attacks. Its cool, I forgive you. Happy hunting.


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

One of the definitions of fascism is: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.

blackbear is a fascist/nazi. He thinks that what everyone else does is his business. And he has the “pure” way. It use to be in this country, “live and let live”. Not anymore. We have the health nazis who make it their business what I eat, smoke, and drink. And we have the hunting nazis who make it their business how/if I hunt. And the list goes on. 

These are symptoms of socialism and what happens with the commons. I think it is going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better. If you don’t think our current hunting system is socialist, I would love to here your definition of socialism! And by the way, as Milton Friedman once said, “Socialism has never worked anywhere.”

I digress, back to how good one has to be to please blackbear and lets compare hunting with other sports. 

If I am a professional (I get paid millions and it’s my livelihood) baseball player and I strike out 7 out of 10 times at bat, I stand a good chance of being in the hall of fame. 

If we look at professional golfers each weekend most if not all in a given day will hit quit a few bad shots during a single hole. In fact a good portion will hit so many that they don’t make the cut. 

Now lets pretend that the golfers are not getting paid to golf. No, not like you and me. Say, Tiger and Phil. Except there is no television coverage, no endorsements, no fame, no purse, no trophy. Nothing. They labor in anonymity. And every time they go out they have to pay to play. They have to carry their own clubs and some of the courses are not the well taken care of. You know, public courses, and some public courses they can't play on because they didn't "draw" out, lots of divots, no flags, golf cart trails that are rutted all to ^%$#, and some “spectators” around who find golf offensive and inhuman harassing every shot you make. And on top of that every time you come into the clubhouse someone like blackbear is lecturing them about all their missed shots and telling them how good he is. 

Question: Under the above scenario, do you think Tiger and Phil would golf and would want their kids to take up the sport?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

DB, if you're a pro ball player how did you find time to sit in front of a computer to type up that well thought out essay on hunting/socialism? Don't you have a game to be to somewhere? :wink: :mrgreen:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I can see the dude's point. I've only been doing this for a year... so I'm new but I can give the viewpoint of a guy who didn't archery hunt as well. I know it always used to hit me as "why didn't you just practice more" when I'd hear people talk about missing a lot. Don't take it lightly if you miss.... if you're taking a bunch of shots over a weekend in the hills or whatever, then something isn't right with you or your setup and you probably ought to get that ironed out before you go back up and sling a bunch of arrows just hoping you hit something. I know before I started hunting with a bow the guys who were real vocal about their missed shots just made me shake my head.... It just seemed like even though they could do better, they either didn't care or were just too lazy to put in the work to become effective with their weapon of choice. 

I've missed once... at 37 yards. But I didn't hurry up and re-nock another arrow and lob it in there again, even though the elk didn't go too far (could have been the adrenaline shakes I got after I missed the shot too). I just think stating "we got a few shots off" sounds like they were totally nonchalant about the fact that they'd missed, like it was no big deal. Well, if you don't take it seriously that you can't hit what you're aiming for, then why are you carrying that weapon into the field? I know Dustin has worked his butt off for deer and his misses weren't like seven in one weekend or anything. His have been over several years or whatever and he has even drawn blood before but what bugs me is the guys/gals who pick up their bow two weeks before the season and then expect empathy from those who practice as much as possible to be ready before it ever even gets here. The animals we pursue demand more effort and respect than some folks show with their "took a few shots" attitude so I could totally see how somebody like Bigbear would get annoyed hearing guys talk about it. I didn't get any shots over the weekend but I'd like to think that if I did have a shot and missed, I wouldn't go banzaiing down the hill shooting at anything that moved just to get more shots. The guy that shot the bush 8 times.... thats the dude that frustrates the rest of us.... idiot. Thank god that guy only packs a bow and not a rifle.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

You know what black bear? You are right. I pretty much did the same thing you did. I'll try not to be suck a wiener. Sorry. You're still a mean heartless guy in my books who hurts the feelings of innocent ********.  :wink: 

I'll tell you this though. I am going hunting this evening and I hope to get a few shots off


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## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

Uh oh... Iv been outed- ALL HEIL BLACKBEAR!!







. ALL MUST BOW DOWN TO ME AND HUNT WITH A RECURVE BOW!

& yup...

Harassing ******** till the day I die. :wink:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

idiot with a bow said:


> I'll try not to be suck a wiener. I hope to get a few shots off


 :shock: :shock:

WTF?? Brian... say its not so....


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> DB, if you're a pro ball player how did you find time to sit in front of a computer to type up that well thought out essay on hunting/socialism? Don't you have a game to be to somewhere?


TEX, notice the "IF" that starts my sentence. I was not implying I am.

My point- or one of them is - professional athletes, in this case I was talking about baseball players, have millions of dollars and every kind of trainer/coach you can think at their disposal to achieve some measure of success. Some even have psychologists! And with that kind of money most have a great incentive to achieve. Maybe even cheat? And if a professional baseball player with all these advantages and desire misses twice as much as he hits, he's in the hall of fame. Yours and bears expectations for us "red necks" are simply unachievable even for you and bear. I know that must come as a surprise to you both.

My other point is socialism leads to conflict. One need only read a few threads in this forum to notice plenty of that. Also, look at the dwindling numbers of hunters and all the "plans" to change it to see it's affect. People are voting with their feet.

My other point is something my mother taught me, mind your own business!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > DB, if you're a pro ball player how did you find time to sit in front of a computer to type up that well thought out essay on hunting/socialism? Don't you have a game to be to somewhere?
> ...


Ya, I get it DB, notice the " :wink: " and the " :mrgreen: " in my last post.

And, another thing this ******* gets that you may not is this. It's a *hell* of a lot easier to hit a deer with a bow at 30 yards than it is to connect with a 90 mph fast ball. Only a select few gifted athletes can hit a ML baseball. Hell, Micheal Jordan *SUCKED* at it! I should hope to God that the talent and shooting prowess one must have to connect with a deer is a little better than 20% for most of us. :roll: I get your point and your analogy, but they both suck.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

> I'll try not to be suck a wiener.


My best typo to date. You're welcome everyone.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

idiot with a bow said:


> > I'll try not to be suck a wiener.
> 
> 
> My best typo to date. You're welcome everyone.


Funny thing is, if it was Zim it wouldn't be a typo... -)O(-


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

mulepacker said:


> So my reply to all of those who defend the judgement:
> 
> Have you ever missed?
> 
> Truemule you say you have never missed, how many animals have you taken without missing?


Sorry been gone few days. To answer your question. I have taken four animlas to date.

I think the real question should be: How many animals have walked because I know the shot was no good for whatever reason.

Like I said in the first post everybody misses. luckily I have not yet. It is not the miss factor that bugs me as first stated. It is the don't care attitude that some hunters put forth. The attitude that endangers my hunting by making all hunters look bad.


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> [quote="idiot with a bow":ayblbcco]
> 
> 
> > I'll try not to be suck a wiener.
> ...


Funny thing is, if it was Zim it wouldn't be a typo... -)O(-[/quote:ayblbcco]
That is one impressive typo Idiot.

Tex :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## straightshooter (Jun 24, 2008)

DB COOPER FOR PRESIDENT!!


BLACKBEAR SOUNDS LIKE AN ELITEIST TO ME


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I am really surprised at how many of you take such a story so personally, I think it is telling. I will guess that there is a strong relationship between those who are offended by his experience to those who spend less time practicing shooting??? Tex and Tree I know they shoot a lot and they both agreed with the post as do I, I personally normally get no less than 30 hours of practice a year; this year I only got about 20 hours as it took a long time to find a good spot to shoot close to home. Not that 20 or 30 hours is a lot, but it is about 30x more than I have heard from some archers. I have personally hunted 14 years and shot a total of two times in the last 6 years or so; plenty of chances on small ones, but I find it enjoyable to get close and just watch; let those ones grow up attitude I guess. The only figure that I have heard on this thread was "7 shots last year" versus my record, hopefully you can appreciate my attitude when the two stats are compared. Personally, I will respect those who decline the offer to share their records as that would likely shed a bad light on the sport, probably better left unsaid for possibly some antis to get a hold of such information. I do not mean for this to be confrontational, but I think the point of the thread was to have us contemplate not only our actions, but also the environment in which such a statement as "got a few shots off" is shared. Several shared that a branch got in the way; fine, did the same branch get in the way 7 times last year?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Seven misses in one year at big game seems too many! I know if it were me, I'd try to figure out what was wrong after about 3 misses. Bad setup, damaged or bumped rest or sights, flinching, string hitting my shirt sleeve, improper alignment when sighting, misjudged distance, shot too far for my abilities? With 7 misses, either something is chronically wrong or Murphy is working double or triple overtime.

Two years on a row I took small bucks with open close shots, but my hits were 3-4 inches to the left of my aim and I couldn't imagine why. But on my third year, I had a nonhunting friend with me who watched the shot and he told me I moved my head to watch the arrow in flight, which moved my bow, apparently before the arrow cleared the rest. I now have 2 white and 2 florescent green vanes (yes, 4 fletch) and I can see the arrow just fine with a proper follow through. No more head jerking. And no more of that problem.

Maybe "we got a few shots off" just means some Murphys, but it could mean more depending on what "a few shots" means. In any case, they needed to be told, though not so harshly. Let's help each other, not hurt each other!


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

Huge29 said:


> I am really surprised at how many of you take such a story so personally, I think it is telling. I will guess that there is a strong relationship between those who are offended by his experience to those who spend less time practicing shooting???


Huge, I don't think the hours of practice is as important as what you accomplish during that time. As my high school band teacher use to say, "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." Some people after 100 hours still are not ready to attempt a kill. Some might be ready after 5. That said, I would say I "practiced" more hours than you this year. This is my first year of bow hunting. I have spent three days in the field so far and have fired 0 shots. Your 0 for 1 on your "telling"!

If you, bear, tex and et al. want to be the hunting "police", be my guest. All we ask is you and all those that want to "police" and be "policed" identify yourselves like other law enforcement. Maybe you could wear a swastika on your left arm and those of us without them can be identified as people who don't want anything to do with you and want to be left alone and not bothered by you and yours!

Whats the difference between what bear did/does and how the anti-hunting groups behave towards hunters?


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

idiot with a bow said:


> > I'll try not to be suck a wiener.
> 
> 
> My best typo to date. You're welcome everyone.


Like anyone believes that it was a typo. :roll: Normally, I would suggest that you use your spell checker. However, now I'm just left wondering what is really going through your mind. Your such and Idiot. FYI, I have managed to scrape together $100, from some of our forum friends, that will be used to help you get a lift kit put on your truck. I feel badly that you have to drive around, being such a wiener, sitting so low to the ground. :wink:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> If you, bear, tex and et al. want to be the hunting "police", be my guest. All we ask is you and all those that want to "police" and be "policed" identify yourselves like other law enforcement. Maybe you could wear a swastika on your left arm and those of us without them can be identified as people who don't want anything to do with you and want to be left alone and not bothered by you and yours!
> 
> Whats the difference between what bear did/does and how the anti-hunting groups behave towards hunters?


Your example is ridiculous as you know, how about we all just take smart shots and for those who insist upon taking unethical shots and take them often, keep it to yourself! The difference? Something about the intentions of the party involved, does anyone want to maim deer? In that, both parties are somewhat similar, point being, again, if one insists in unethical behavior keep your stories to yourself, seems simple!


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

No, the anti hunters think every shot is unethical. I say every shot has risks. We should try to minimize that risk as much as we can.

What is your definition of unethical? Is it every shot you miss? Is it every shot you hit but fail to retrieve the animal?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> No, the anti hunters think every shot is unethical. I say every shot has risks. We should try to minimize that risk as much as we can.
> 
> What is your definition of unethical? Is it every shot you miss? Is it every shot you hit but fail to retrieve the animal?


This is not going anywhere, let's not turn this into a piss'n contest! So, I will make my final post to this line of the thread. I believe any shot by any hunter has not ever shot with a broadhead and got all pins sighted in to where he is comfortable is unethical at any distance. Pretty basic, if they can't do it on the target what miraculous change will occur with the numerous variable of a hunting situation? I understand that a deer jumping the string can seriously change the point of impact as I have had this happen also. If a person misses "7 times" as was mentioned I will guess that there is a very serious problem, EFA offered a very logical solution to fixing such a problem. If a person misses numerous times in a day and needs to get a new dozen of arrows a week later like Tex explained, I don't even know how to begin to explain how someone can do that. I would consider any shot at the rump unethical as someone has also mentioned, a shot over 50 yards for a person who does not consistently shoot at that distance successfully would be unethical; pretty simple I think.


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## flyfitch (Sep 22, 2007)

I didn't feel like reading all 5 pages of posts, so this might have been sayed, but does blackbear only carry one arrow in his quiver? He shouldn't need anymore than one. He would be a hipocrite if he carried more than one.


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

I agree with Huge's last post. I've passed up rifle shots on elk, and deer, when all I could see was rump and guts. I personally feel like they would have been unethical shots. Furthermore, I believe that anyone who would take the same type of shot with a bow has some serious mental disabilities. On the opener of the hunt, I felt good about taking a shot out to a max. of 30 yards, because I knew for a fact that my 40 yard pin had been tweaked; therefore, I made the decision that I would not take any shots beyond 30 yards until I could readjust my sights. I simply knew my limitations at the time. 

Then, later that day, I went back to camp fixed my pins and was set to go at 40 and 50 if needed, but I always try my best to close the gap to about 30 yards (or less) when hunting. I believe that DB. correctly referred to this sort of thing as minimizing risks. The risk of losing a wounded animal, and the risk of not having much moral character (or ethical behavior for unbelievers) as a result of going into the field unprepared. Even the very best shooters miss sometimes, yet as responsible hunters we try to practice as much as possible, know the limitations of our equipment, and know our own physical and mental limitations. I believe that anything less would not qualify one to be called a hunter, but rather a self-centered, narcissistic, gaping hole in the hind quarter. So, to those who would take just about any shot regardless of the situation, may you burn in heck. In addition, might the other evil creatures in heck, like wolves, be taking shots at your sack from 80 yards with dull broadheads. Wolves are so unethical when it comes to shooting evil doing humans in the sack...don't you think?

Tree took an elk through the heart at about 51 yards last week. I do not attribute this to luck, as I watched him shoot earlier in the day and he was dialed in. Plus, I know that he wouldn’t have taken that shot without the confidence that comes from practice. Nevertheless, I did see him miss a gopher at 20 yards, while he was on a vision quest in the Henry Mountains. He may have been drinking at the time, or maybe he was just allergic to the mushrooms. :lol: He even ground up some indian paint brush flowers and painted his truck red with a turkey feather. :roll: 

Will someone please petition Pete to give me 20 extra posts for this lengthy late night madness. I need to catch up with Pro.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> If you, bear, tex and et al. want to be the hunting "police", be my guest. All we ask is you and all those that want to "police" and be "policed" identify yourselves like other law enforcement. Maybe you could wear a swastika on your left arm and those of us without them can be identified as people who don't want anything to do with you and want to be left alone and not bothered by you and yours!


DB, we can't police ethics and stupidity in the field, all we can do is promote ethical behavior by opening our mouths with an opinion when we feel it should be expressed. Some folks just don't have a clue and need to be educated. Was bigbear as tactful as he could have been? Probably not. But his feelings are shared by many of us who think our sport is under jeopardy when such behavior is exhibited and talked about for all to see and hear.

In the end it all boils down to one phrase. "Ones ethics can only be described by what you do when nobody is looking."


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Meh.... call me a Nazi or whatever but I think you need to take the time to be able to make a killing shot. Don't shoot just to get one off, shoot when you have a shot you know you can make. If you can't handle that... well, shame on you. Again... what are you doing carrying a weapon in the first place if you don't take your responsibility that seriously? Do people miss?? Sure... nobody is perfect but I think making a habit out of that or taking it lightly is frankly.... a ****ty attitude. Laziness, apathy, looking for the easy way out.... all seem to be a big part of today's society. Sorry fellas, we don't have that luxury and hopefully somewhere along the way, folks will start realizing that. Like somebody else said... perhaps getting on their case wasn't the right reaction but his thoughts on their lackadaisical attitude regarding the fact that they shot a bunch of times and brought home nothing is spot on as far as I'm concerned. What happens if those guys just "getting off a few shots" hit animals on those shots? You going to try and tell me that guys who are just out to get a few shots are going to be the ones dedicated enough to track that animal until they find it, no matter how long it takes? I doubt it.... if they'd taken the time to become proficient with their weapon, then I'd guess that extremely lowers their numbers of shots taken and extremely raises their effectiveness in the field. If people would actually do the work required to be a proficient archer, I'd be willing to bet we'd hear a lot less about "getting a few shots off" and see a lot more of people posting their hard earned rewards. But..... that would take too long, take too much work, be the right way to do things, be respectful of the sport we enjoy and the animals we pursue.... so we'll always be stuck hearing about the "get a few shots off" guy. :|


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Dustin, _why_ did you miss seven times last year?
> 
> Inexperience, distance, wind, animal moved, poor shooting, uphill, downhill, obstructions, too dark, too bright, etc. etc. So you missed seven times, did you have any desire to get better? Did you learn from those misses? These are the things that will help gain or lose respect from your fellow hunters. If it were me, I'd keep that info under my hat and just try to get better. Better at shooting, distance judging, stalking, everything. We owe that much to the animals we hunt. Respect for one another as hunters starts with the respect we show the animals we chase. "Gettin a bunch of shots" means nothing to me if you don't make *every one* of those shots count. Yes, you'll miss, but it will nearly *always* be *your* fault
> 
> I will say this I learned from those misses last year for shure. There was hurrying the shoot,buck fever, judging wrong, didnt shoot enought. So this year I didnt even have a archrey tag and I was out shooting my bow all summer long up hill and down hill on side hills and I learnd alot from shooting with other guys. one Guy realy helped me out up at the hard ware ranch shoot. He didnt mind me asking him Q and he would tell us what we where doing wrong. So next year on the hunt I hope it has a better out come.Pluse Im still learning every year. If people want to look at me as a bad hunter because I missed 7 times. That fine I dont care then they got a proublom. I could under stand if I wounded them and didnt find them. Then that a differnt story. buty just missing is part of the game.O yea every one misses if they say the dont there full of crap.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

This has been an "interesting" read however not "informative". Growing up in a small town where half the guys in my highschool hunted I heard a lot of hunting reports (obviously from young hunters) but was always discusted at all the archery stories. It seemed to me on average lots of archers I knew stuck arrows in at least 2 or three deer before retrieving one to put their tag in. I still remember one friend telling me he had stuck 13 deer by the time he took one. *I am not saying muzzy and rifle hunters do not have similar stories* but I question wether "archery" (the primative weapon) deserves the extended seasons, number of tags, and state wide boundries with the number of deer I believe die of gang green every year in the hills. If you average all the injured deer into archers success rates what would they be?

Many archers propose giving more archery tags to allow more opportunity without effecting buck/doe, bull/cow ratios but I question wether that concept has any merit.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just sharing my opinion and observation.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

To me, there's a big difference between a guy that realizes he needs to get better and some random guy thats just like, "Oh well, another miss... where's my next shot opportunity?" without even giving the miss or the reason for it a second thought. I don't see Dustin being the second guy.... 2 cents.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

10000ft. said:


> This has been an "interesting" read however not "informative". Growing up in a small town where half the guys in my highschool hunted I heard a lot of hunting reports (obviously from young hunters) but was always discusted at all the archery stories. It seemed to me on average lots of archers I knew stuck arrows in at least 2 or three deer before retrieving one to put their tag in. I still remember one friend telling me he had stuck 13 deer by the time he took one. *I am not saying muzzy and rifle hunters do not have similar stories* but I question wether "archery" (the primative weapon) deserves the extended seasons, number of tags, and state wide boundries with the number of deer I believe die of gang green every year in the hills. If you average all the injured deer into archers success rates what would they be?
> 
> Many archers propose giving more archery tags to allow more opportunity without effecting buck/doe, bull/cow ratios but I question wether that concept has any merit.
> 
> I'm not trying to pick a fight, just sharing my opinion and observation.


I work up in the Alpine and Highland area. I'm actually out on Workers Comp right now trying to recover from an accident, so I'm glad I'm not having to take part in putting down all the buck's that are walking and laying around with arrows sticking out of them. Not being an archer I have just assumed in the past that this is the norm for archery hunting because I have seen it for the last 5 years of working up there. It never fails, every year during archery season, homeowners and passers by call in reporting injured deer with arrows sticking out of them. It has always put a sour taste in my mouth. Not knowing anything about archery I can only assume these injuries are being inflicted by archers that don't know what they are doing or are not willing to take the time to learn. I guess it could be some of the same people year in and year out. After reading all of your posts it seems that you can become about as accurate with a bow as you can with a muzzle or rifle as long as you have practiced and know what you are doing in the ethical kill ranges. I have always wanted to try it, however, the sour taste just kept me from doing it. It does paint a bad picture for all archery hunters unfortunately, so now I understand why some of you get very upset when you here of things like this going on and why you interpret things the way that you do. Now that I've been educated a bit, I would take it personal as well when when anything is being said or done that would cast a negative light on my hunt of choice.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Hi my name is Tom, I am a recovering misser.... I can say that I missed 3 spike Elk in one day.


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## muzzlehutn (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Tom

HI My names Kurt,
Im also a recovering Misser not only with a Bow a Muzzleloader a Shotgun a Rifle, Ive even missed fish and 6 inch putts with a Callaway *OOO*


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

What about Duck hunters ? They miss alot in one day and they shoot a hell alot in one day. So are we bad hunters becuase of that ?


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## straightshooter (Jun 24, 2008)

So I guess we should not take our kids on the bowhunt with us because I guarantee you that my 12 year old is no where near as accurate as I am. So I will just tell him that he's gonna have to keep practicing and building those muscles before I can take him hunting, and meanwhile he'll probably say to hell with it then and go do something else like drugs, or join a gang or something to that effect. Some of you people are so holier than thou that you can't even think straight. It sounds to me like Dustin did exactly the same thing that these fellas did, "miss", but it's OK for Dustin to miss. Dustin I'm sure you learned from your misses, but Blackbear just passes judgment on people based on a short sentence. How does he know that those hunters didn't learn from their misses. How does he know that maybe they just didn't want to talk to him almighty, so they just said " Ah missed a few." I challenge any of you to take your 12 year old hunting, and if he hits one and does not recover it, tell him he's done for the season. Or if he misses a few, get after him and tell him everything he's doing wrong. I would bet the farm that most kids would do other things. I am not condoning wounding deer, but it happens and you hunting police need to mind your own **** business and worry about poachers instead of missed shots.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

The bagging a buck or bullor cow or doe is just a bouns to some people. just geting out is all what matters.


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

straightshooter said:


> I challenge any of you to take your 12 year old hunting, and if he hits one and does not recover it, tell him he's done for the season.


I'll take your challenge, and raise you ethics and a solid respect for the animal and hunting. I have done this myself and would expect nothing less from my son.
But, that is why unless *I* think he is ready I wouldn't let him archery hunt. Just as if I didn't think he was ready he would not rifle or muzzle hunt either. Thats part of teaching our children. Giving them the boundries when they don't know them and teaching them how to recognize their own.

Nobody is telling someone how they should hunt. Just to use a little thought and tact when talking about hunting. No matter what you call ethical hunting. None of us can afford to worsen our image any more than a few already do. Call me a snob or stuck up. But if that the label I get from defending my favorite past time than, I'M A SNNOOOBBBBBBBBBB!!!!!!!!


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

Upon further review, I think I may have been a little harsh and over the top. 

Bear didn’t suggest we pass a law. That’s a good thing. He didn’t beat them up. That’s a good thing. He didn’t try to get a “bully” to beat them up. That’s a good thing. He tried to change someone else’s mind about something that he cares about, and so do I, using “friendly” persuasion - words. That’s a great thing! We all may have chosen different words in the persuasion but on the surface it seems reasonable to talk to someone about maybe changing tactics especially if it helps their success rate. That’s a good thing. Also, the offer to help them out - even if it was after the fact - is admirable and seems sincere. And the ethical/unethical thing is a hard thing to get my mind around completely and I have very little expertise to help out. “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it” kind of. And it’s certainly not worth harsh words to others who might differ in their opinion and is a personal thing. I think we all hope each shot is meat in the freezer. 

Ok, maybe I have been more than a little off. Please accept my apologies to all and especially bear, huge, and tex. I’ll try to think things through a little better before I, “get a few shots off!”


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> What about Duck hunters ? They miss alot in one day and they shoot a hell alot in one day. So are we bad hunters becuase of that ?


Good point... again with the accuracy thing. You ought to be able to be effective with your shots. Everyone will miss but having that same attitude "it doesn't matter as long as I get my shots" isn't a great attitude to have. If you're missing, you probably ought to be working at getting better... otherwise, why carry the shotgun if it does you no good? I think in duck hunting, where you're a lot more likely to hit a duck with a bunch of pellets than a deer with a single arrow, it comes down to things like making sure you get your cripples. Its a respect thing... some have it, some don't I guess. If you're not doing everything you can to make sure you're ready to go, then to me at least, it comes across as a lack of respect for the animal you're out there hunting, the sport itself and the guys you're representing when you go out as a "hunter". Guys that pick up a shotgun a day before the season and skybust until they finally knock something down and think thats great shooting.... well, sorry bud, but I think you're a bit off there. Sun shines on every dogs butt every once in a while but that doesn't make you a good hunter.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> What about Duck hunters ? They miss alot in one day and they shoot a hell alot in one day. So are we bad hunters becuase of that ?


What! I never miss ducks! :mrgreen:

And no Dustin, you're not a bad hunter for missing a lot... Just a bad shot. :twisted:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> Sun shines on every dogs butt every once in a while but that doesn't make you a good hunter.


Amen!

I am surprised/disappointed by some of the reactions folks on here have about bear having the COURAGE to say what needed to be said! *If archers won't stand up to those who put our beloved passion at risk, who will?* Anyone who has the apparently casual "at least we got a few shots off" attitude has no business calling themselves "bow hunters". Just because you have a license, and a bow in tow, does NOT mean you are a bow hunter. A bow hunter takes pride in making EVERY possible effort to hit what he is aiming at on the FIRST shot, not that it always happens, but to just 'hope' is NOT an acceptable way to hunt in my book. I say kudos to bear, keep it up!


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> I am surprised/disappointed by some of the reactions folks on here have about bear having the COURAGE to say what needed to be said!


Please see about 3 posts above yours for one changed mind.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I saw that cooper, and that is cool you came 'around'. :wink: There is hope for you after all. :shock:


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## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

Wow! finally not only did one of my posts get a response... but 7 pages(and counting) worth!! Dont worry Cooper, et all, no hard feelings. If this boy cant handle the heat, he wouldnt be in the kitchen to begin with. Im glad you understand now where my post was coming from though. I was just trying to open the discussion about archery, shooting & ethics. Like my original post said, the idea of shooting a couple shots in one day, without an animal in the truck seemed strange to me. And open a discussion it did! I know conversations like this, will make us all better archers.

Plus, without your nazi comment, I couldnt have used my little hitler smiley-









& dont worry, as woody guthries guitar said(perhaps I should paint it on my bow)- "THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS.(& deer)"


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## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

oh wait..... pro agress with me. -)O(- nevermind, I MUST be wrong then. :wink:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

So, did Pro. miss his bull? And, how many shots did he get off down south?  

Plus, I too disagree with everything he says. :lol:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

BERG said:


> So, did Pro. miss his bull? And, how many shots did he get off down south?
> 
> Plus, I too disagree with everything he says. :lol:


No shots over the weekend. :x Too hot, and little action. We did see 10+ bulls, none that we liked were where we liked.  The hunt is young, we WILL succeed.

I also disagree with everything I say, that is one part of my mental disorder 'diagnosed' by Jimmy Page. *\-\*


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> BERG said:
> 
> 
> > So, did Pro. miss his bull? And, how many shots did he get off down south?
> ...


Thanks for the report. The heat is not our friend; therefore, may The Man in charge of the weather smile upon you with cold nightly temperatures.

Jimmy Page? That's funny.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

BERG said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > BERG said:
> ...


Pro won't be wasting any prayers about the weather, football starts this week save your prayers for that. :mrgreen:


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > What about Duck hunters ? They miss alot in one day and they shoot a hell alot in one day. So are we bad hunters becuase of that ?
> ...


Well tex I will say im not the best shoot with my bow right now. but I'm geting better. One day I will be like you.  Yea you never miss ducks. that right you shoot them with your bow. How can you misses with that pretty thing and those pretty arrows.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > dkhntrdstn said:
> ...


 :lol: Dustin, don't EVER change baby! I love you man. (I love your wife too!  )


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Well tex I will say im not the best shoot with my bow right now. but I'm geting better. One day I will be like you.  Yea you never miss ducks. that right you shoot them with your bow. How can you misses with that pretty thing and those pretty arrows.[/quote]

:lol: Dustin, don't EVER change baby! I love you man. (I love your wife too!  )[/quote]

O dont worry Im not going to change. I didn't change for my wife and I shure in hell ant going to change the way I'm my friends dont like me the way Im tuff **** for them live with it.By the way I love you to :mrgreen: o yea my wife Loves you to. :mrgreen:


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

I challenge all of you to go back and read the original post.

Blackbear opened the door, I seen a couple of bow hunters in the dairy keen in Heber yesterday for lunch, asked them how their morning went.
When he got what he felt was an inappropriate answer, what did he do and is this appropriate? . Their reply " didn't get anything, but we got a few shots off." !!! Is it just me, or perhaps the style of hunting I practice, or my raising, or my conscience, but this really rubbed me wrong. Anybody else?

IMO opinion his reaction was then detrimental bowhunting:
I find it ironic he made a comment about his early days of bowhunting (which must have been ok because they were "his" early days), but then criticized them for their position on the learning curve.

I laughed at the guys and told them I remember when I first started bowhunting(they blushed). I told them that you have to learn somewhere long they way, i guess. (they blushed some more). I then told them if they have the time/money to invest in their fancy camo, and face paint the least they could do was take a few hours and learn how to shoot/sight in their bows. (They walked away). 
I dont know, maybe Im making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Am I?

At last some salvage comes although it is a hollow offer from the insults attached to it.

& to the guys if your reading this(you know who you are)- Ill pay for a lesson for both of you. Id teach you myself, but I shoot a recurve, and I know thatll defiantly be to much for you if you cant even work your training wheels. Baby steps right? let me know.
If your offer truly is heart felt do not let it drop. There are many opportunities to teach proper bowhunting principles. Become a Bow Ed instructor BOU can steer you in the right direction, Get involved with UBA they are trying to implement an Archery in the Schools program, become a merit badge counselor, go to your local range or pro shop and organize a training league etc. Possibly the best opportunity to teach this principle was lost in a moment of mocking fellow bowhunters.

My point is that we all start somewhere. If you believe the casual answer to your question is a problem in bowhunting so be it. However, I believe the arrogance and lack of acceptance, understanding and education are greater threats to bowhunting. Surely bringing them out on the Internet has not curtailed the problem.

Truemule I applaud your success, however I would offer a word of caution, misses will happen if you participate long enough. I agree it is our responsibility to the animal, fellow hunters and society to do all we can to insure 100 percent success, but we all are on a learning curve. I would compare not only my bowhunting resume but also my archery resume with most. I have won state championships in multiple states, with both compound and traditional bows, my bow kills well out number the years I have bowhunted. Every time I release an arrow I release with the feeling that my shot will be true, I understand it may not. If I miss a shot will I hang my head and go back to the practice butt, not necessarily, will I do a self-evaluation sure. But I will keep on bowhunting. Had I been laughed/mocked at the day I missed four times, would of I have continued bowhunting probably not? For those of you who know me I will let you decide if I have been a benefit to bowhunting. I guess it comes down to a principle I try and live by. Treat others the way you would like to be treated.

Blackbear, I am sure you are a great guy I don't know you. I simply hope my comments and examples have helped others on the learning curve.

Pro,
If archers won't stand up to those who put our beloved passion at risk, who will? 
Aren't you the one who is famous for saying you need to show up? I believe standing up is more than questioning or mocking someone (especially on the intternet). From your efforts I am sure you know this. If you want to mkae a difference it will take more than words of criticism.

Travis Sparks


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

mulepacker said:


> I challenge all of you to go back and read the original post.
> ....
> Travis Sparks


I read it, so what is your point? That we should not speak up when there is something that we believe to be unethical? We should shutup and say "good luck, I hope you can maim many more in the afternoon!?" Hopefully you can see that many of us feel strongly on the topic and feel it our duty to protect the sport we cherish.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't think anyone was defending unethical behavior, just the assumptions that were made about these two hunters. We can all teach and learn from each other, but it takes a bit of tact and patience, with a dash of humility.


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

I hope you can maim many more in the afternoon!?

What I am saying is this is an assumption. Where is maiming ever ever defined?

May I ask what you have done , more than venting on the internet or in person at protecting our sport?

There are a number of organizations that protect our sport, which ones do you belong to?

When was the last time you made a concentrated organized effort at education or defending of our sport?

If you are not living up to my standars of "protecting our sport" then why are you allowed to criticize those who do not live up to your standards? 
Yet I am not allowed the opportunity to criticize this thread?

I simply believe speaking up and mocking are a poor way to make a difference.


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Mule packer, 
Thanks for the comments. I realize I will miss sometime in my hunting career. But, for now I will gloat a little. :8): I just was trying to make the point that we all need to make every effort possible to make a good shot. If/when I miss I will not brag about it. I wil hang my head and analyze what I did wrong. But, I will not brag or tell stories of porr hunting habits or incedents that shed a poor light on our sport. That is the impression I got from the initial post.


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