# How much powder is too much?



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

With all of the new “Magnum” muzzle loaders that are out their now, and all touting to handle loads up to 150 grains, at what point do you say uncle? My favorite front stuffer is a White model super 91 that I have up dated with 97 ramrod holder and fiber line sights. This muzzy just loves to digest the 460 grain No Excuse conical bullets.

A few years back I decided to give Knight a try and ordered a 26 inch stainless steel “Bighorn” in 50 caliber. My hunting buddy had bought one and was getting some phenomenal result with his muzzy using sabots and 260 grain Hornaday pistol bullets. I have never had good luck with sabot and pistol bullets but I decided to give it a try.

His best load was shooting a respectable group with 120 grains of black powder. When I loaded mine up with the same load, I had horrible results. My target of choice is a pizza box with a three inch orange dot at sixty yards. After several shots I could see that this load was going no where fast and tried several different load and bullet combinations. The best grouping was with a Cape Buffalo 480 grain & sabot and 90 grains of black powder fff. I tried some “Powerbelts” and had marginal results with these bullets also. It just was not happening for me at those increased powder charges.

On another shooting session in the snow we started shooting our muzzies with our favorite loads, and I noticed that my buddies Knight “Bighorn” was leaving smoldering unburned powder all over the snow.... I asked him what was up with that and he told me that he had changed nothing in his regime. As I would shoot with my loads, we would find nothing on the snow, however my loads were less than 100 grains. From that shooting session we learned that black powder and substitutes can and do reach a point of diminishing returns. We found that on average that anything over 110 grains of powder was leaving un burned powder on the snow. We gained about 5 grains with fff powders over other sizes but it was not significant to make a big difference to us.

For awhile we thought that pellets where the answer to increased charges, because we never seen the unburned powder residual on the snow. On one cold shoot we walked up to the target and found a 1/4 unburnt Pyrodex pellet was stuck in the bottom part of the box. From that point on I am convinced that somewhere around 110 to 115 grains of powder are the magic numbers to say that you are just blowing smoke out the tailpipe. 

Disclaimers to my observations are that in no way can I tell you that our test were scientifically controlled and that we have not tested at all temperatures, with all powders and substitutes or ignition systems and barrel lengths. With that said I will still say that in my humble opinion, in the vast majority of muzzle loaders, if you are using more than 115 grains of powder or equivalents, you are just producing nothing more than extra smoke.....

Bigbr


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

If your ML gets really dirty after only a few shots then you are using way to much powder.


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

Law of diminishing returns. You run out of barrel vs. the 'burn' rate of your powder. Remember that only about 50-60% of your solid powder is converted into gas. The added ejecta is either left in the bore, or contributes to more recoil, with diminishing improvements to velocity. Charge to velocity ratios are not linear!!! You ought to find the most accurate load for your gun that has enough velocity to get the ball/bullet to the target with enough retained energy to penetrate the animal. Pellet powder has done nothing for the sport of muzzleloading. Loose powder is the only good option from nearly every standpoint. You can reload loose powder from a premeasured tube faster than with 2-3 pellets (especially if you use a conical vs. a sabot). ML shooting has suffered greatly from what I call the "training wheels" effect (sabots, pellets, scopes, etc., etc.)

With pellets, you only get 2 or 3 choices for loads, 50, 100, 150 gr. (or 60, 120) Most guns like a particular charge of powder. Most .54 cal guns burn most efficienlty in the 80-95gr range, .50 cal are most efficient in the 70-90gr range. How are you going to know your best load if your only options are 50, 100, or 150gr of powder?


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

I have noticed the same thing, my Knight Bighorn shoots the best with about 90-110gr of Pyrodex P. Anything more than that and my accuracy greatly suffers. The funny thing too is this gun does not shoot the new Triple 7 powder very well either.

Mark


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I agree with bigbr 120%!!!!! I think the ML industry has sent out a "falls feeling" about Manum ML. Personaly, I dont think they should have used the term "magnum".

I think it is a waist of powder to shoot more than 110 gr.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Interesting... Thanks for the tidbits guys!


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

I have never used more than 100 grain of powder !!


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## JedInUtah (Sep 10, 2007)

Why wouldn't they use "magnum"........it means they can charge more and make more money. Same reason auto manufacturers tout that everyone needs a TRUCK or an SUV. (Now don't take that as a "green" comment, cause this has nothing to do with environmentalism and everything to do with marketing) You see guys driving around all day in there huge lifted truck just to have a truck and fit the stereotype........they have no trailer, boat, horses, etc to haul or aren't even contractors etc. Just haulin' air or their dog. The automakers are making good coin on it though. Magnum+Marketing=$$$$$$


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