# Grouse numbers



## Size Matters (Dec 22, 2007)

I was wondering if anyone has been seeing any grouse and how the hatch was this year from what I have seen the numbers are way down for both sage and blue.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Winter was long and hard this year, man. There was simply too much snow. I spent most of last week camping in Southern Idaho and the grouse are drumming right now. There will be some late nesters for sure.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Last year seemed like a strange grouse season due to the cold and wet spring, and this year was like last spring x10. Hopefully some chicks made it through the hatch this year!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

The areas I've gone to have had more grouse than I've seen in the last 2 years!! I also heard some drumming about 3 weeks ago. I can't wait to get after them!!


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## Blanding_Boy (Nov 21, 2007)

I've seen a few hens with broods of both blues and sage-grouse. Most of our sage-grouse didn't nest, nested early and failed. Those that did seemed to fair well but they were easy 3 to 4 weeks behind. One blue grouse i saw 2 days ago just had 5-7 day old chicks.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Worst hatch I have ever noticed for Ruffs. I have seen a grand total of 1 chick this year. Seems like adult numbers are where they have been in the past. Of course, I am no biologist, just an observer.


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

does the dwr do any kind of yearly brood counts on forest grouse?


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

I don't feel like the DWR takes ruffed and dusky grouse management seriously. The bird count consists of feedback from hunters and heresay from utahwildlife.net. More grouse get killed in utah by deer hunters that are bored of not seeing any deer by Sunday afternoon than actual grouse hunters. I think that grouse might be the number one poached game animal in the state. You never hear of someone turning in a member of their elk or deer hunting party for 'checking zero' of their 300 win mag by blasting one out of a tree just to watch it explode.

If I know where there _are_ grouse, I keep my mouth shut! I don't need a pickup truck full of teenagers with .22's killing them all for fun. And, I don't need any other greedy slob hunters taking overlimits of grouse from areas that can't sustain overharvest.

Yes, I know where I can expect to see a few grouse, but not an abundance that needs sharing.

Numbers are down from last year, I have noticed.


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## billybob (Oct 27, 2008)

woollybugger said:


> I don't feel like the DWR takes ruffed and dusky grouse management seriously. The bird count consists of feedback from hunters and heresay from utahwildlife.net. More grouse get killed in utah by deer hunters that are bored of not seeing any deer by Sunday afternoon than actual grouse hunters. I think that grouse might be the number one poached game animal in the state. You never hear of someone turning in a member of their elk or deer hunting party for 'checking zero' of their 300 win mag by blasting one out of a tree just to watch it explode.
> 
> If I know where there _are_ grouse, I keep my mouth shut! I don't need a pickup truck full of teenagers with .22's killing them all for fun. And, I don't need any other greedy slob hunters taking overlimits of grouse from areas that can't sustain overharvest.
> 
> ...


+1


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

i know what you mean, i HATE hearing those stories about people using grouse as target practice. i also hate it when i hear archery hunters jumping the gun and getting a few grouse during the archery season. grouse is my number one bird i like to hunt to it frustrates me to no end when i hear all the stories of people poaching grouse. i do think the dwr can step it up on the grouse management, especially on counts and harvest data. it seems grouse just do their own thing with very little intervention from the dwr


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## stimmie78 (Dec 8, 2007)

Back in the day I wouldn't have thought much of shooting a grouse with the .22 or while deer hunting. But of course I can honestly say the opportunity never presented itself. Lately grouse have become my thing to hunt. I love going for a walk and searching out those pesky birds. Forest grouse are by far my favorite because of their size and taste. And I'm all for seeing more grouse in the woods. Last year I got 2 blues, then another trip 2 more, then on another I got 4 ruffs.

That being said, besides trying to count them and getting harvest data, what more can the DWR do to increase bird numbers? Raising them in pens and releasing them? That sounds pretty expensive. Seems there is a lot of complaining about things and no ideas being brought up. What are some ways the DWR could increase numbers? The habitat is there in the areas I go. Snow can't be melted any sooner than nature lets it. So?


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Grouse are pretty naturally self-sustaining. They go through up and down cycles the same as every other animal, but they've been here for thousands and thousands of years without help from us. From what I understand hunting pressure, except maybe in concentrated areas, isn't enough to really impact their numbers long-term. What will really kill them off is habitat loss. There used to be a small, narrow side canyon I hunted for grouse a lot that had lots of ruffs around the elderberry, quakies, snowberry, and natural springs in the bottom that transitioned to blues higher up in the pines near the ridgeline. Last year a small herd of cattle were grazed in there who trampled the springs and ate the cover, and there wasn't a ruff to be found in the canyon bottom. Nothing gets me angrier than cattle destroying habitat on public ground, but that's another topic.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

> Nothing gets me angrier than cattle destroying habitat on public ground, but that's another topic.


Nope- it's the same topic. Add the white plague, poorly planned development, and excessive fire control to round out the conversation.


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

stimmie78 said:


> That being said, besides trying to count them and getting harvest data, what more can the DWR do to increase bird numbers?


work with the forest service to manage sheep and cattle grazing in sensitive areas. i have seen areas that were just awesome for grouse, loaded to the gills with birds totally wiped out in a couple years when it got overgrazed down to almost bare dirt. grazing has its place and time but the forest service lets these areas get mowed down to literally nothing. one area in particular is a riparian area with many springs that had the best ruffie habitat and numbers i have ever seen destroyed because the cows weren't moved off before all the vegetation was destroyed. i dont have a problem with grazing, its just that on public land i dont think they should let it get grazed down to this level. i think they should move more often so wildlife can co-exist. that, in my mind, is the forest service's fault but the DWR should be doing more to facilitate a solution by working with the forest service.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

grouse dog said:


> stimmie78 said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, besides trying to count them and getting harvest data, what more can the DWR do to increase bird numbers?
> ...


I agree 100%. There's just way too much damage being done to a public resource by a few individuals. There sure doesn't seem to be much interest from the Forest Service in doing anything about it, though.


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

and that interest by the forest service will most likely dwindle as budgets are cut from the debt reduction circus we just witnessed in congress.....that most likely means the forest service will have to raise revenue somewhere else, which does give rise to the notion of more grazing permits,among other things. Like i said, i have nothing against grazing on public lands as long as it's done in a manner that doesn't have an adverse affect on wildlife. Animals should be moved a lot more than they currently are.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I love to hunt grouse. For that reason, I keep my eyes open when i am hiking and mountain biking in northern Utah (I do a lot of it). This summer I have only seen two chicks and only about 7-8 grouse (adults) in my travels. I usually see lots of grouse and nice numbers of broods, but not this year. 
P.S. My favorite grouse spot got grazed down to a moonscape last year and they ruined the whole area. Very sad to see.
R


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

the bright side is there is so much land that grouse are litterally on every mountain but the sad part is some of the best hunting spots are getting lost. i know of 2 up logan canyon that were incredible but not anymore. I just wish they would move the livestock around a bit more so they don't have such a huge affect on one area. and those areas are usually where there are streams or riparian habitat which are great for ruffed grouse.


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## mjbarney12 (Feb 13, 2011)

I saw a ruffed grouse on the dirt road up to inspiration point (Willard Peak) just north of Ogden and then as we were hiking the trail over to Ben Lomond Peak we jumped a family of 6. I had my 5 month old lab with me at the time but the grouse were about 15 feet off the trail and downwind from her so she didn't get to flush them. They flushed on their own. I did run up to the erea though and had her sniff around and watched her tail get-a-going as she got birdy. I was suprised to see the ruffed up so high. We were at the top of the mountain. I would have though perhaps blues up that high but they were definately ruffed.


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

the forest service is a division of the department of agriculture


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

did you see any snakes up on willard peak?


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Dog jumped 2 coveys of Sharptails this weekend and watched 6 Chukars fight in Cache County- isn't that a little starnge this time of year.


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## mjbarney12 (Feb 13, 2011)

*Snakes on Willard Peak*

I didn't see any snakes on the hike but I found myself thinking that it looked a bit "snakey".


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## Speedbump (Mar 7, 2011)

Well as far as grouse numbers go, I will be checking how many are up in the uintas in a coule weeks.


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

The best thing we can do to "manage" grouse is to allow more logging or fires. Grouse (and most other wildlife) need young successional forest to live. That's where all the berries, forbs, leaf buds, seeds, etc. grow. What we don't need are vast tracts of mature timber with no under story like you see on the NS of the Uintas for example. The trouble is that the last couple of generations have been brainwashed with the environmentalist nonsense that logging is bad.


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## grouse dog (Jul 20, 2011)

i guess i take up smoking during the grouse hunt now. hahaha...j/k


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## donarcher (Dec 16, 2009)

I was out yesterday scouting grouse and made many contacts. It may have been a fluke but if not we may have reason to rejoice.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

I got into 4 different bunches of youngons last night bow hunting. There was probably 8 in each hatch doesnt seem to be as bad as I was thinkin.


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