# Racism in high school sports



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2019/05/04/racism-keeps-rearing-its/

I figured I'd post this after having a discussion about fan behavior in Utah in another thread. Yes, I think Utah has great people and this is the exception, but it's still an issue and I've seen it firsthand. No one, let alone high school athletes should have to hear this kind of garbage at a sporting event, and instead of saying we should curtail this sort of fan behavior, we want to make sure we protect that behavior under the guise of "free speech". While its true everyone has ever right to say what they want, they should also be kicked out in venues like this, or banned for good because of it, and the Utah High school sports association has every right to do so. Yes Utah has a reputation, especially for gross fan behavior, and some of that reputation is warranted.

I believe if Wyo2 is who I think he is, he teaches school, and coaches high school sports as well if he's who I think he is. You were even my teacher years ago. It's there, and instead of denying it, everything should be done to address it, it's disgusting. I've heard things when South Sevier or Richfield has played Wasatch Academy at times, and it's likely far less of an issue in a bit more diverse places like SLC, but rural parts of Utah have a long way to go on these issues, in sports, and in general.

It's a terrible image and reputation for our state and its communities and instead of ignoring it, we should address it and push for it to be addressed. I recently went through Cedar City and saw the gas station with the bumper stickers that read "if I'd have known this would happen, I'd have picked my own cotton".......Yes, these are individuals who have acted in gross ways, but there are far more of these individuals in our communities than many of us are comfortable admitting. It's an issue, I've seen and heard it personally, and the Utah high school sports association should have a much more aggressive approach at addressing it rather than trying to push it off to the side.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

A single Utahn is usually very nice. Get bunch of them together they are still reasonably nice. Get a large number of them together especially at a sporting event and they are among the worst of humanity. I hate all the screaming and name calling that goes on during local sporting events. Terrible behavior

Last major sporting even I went to was when the Bulls played the Jazz and it went into triple over time. Heck of a great game.


-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The problem isn't just in Utah but in all the states and schools. There may be a few that have gotten a handle on the problem but they are the exceptions. 

I know that back when I was in high school if I acted the way that some of the kids do now I would not of seen graduation day.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Critter said:


> The problem isn't just in Utah but in all the states and schools. There may be a few that have gotten a handle on the problem but they are the exceptions.
> 
> I know that back when I was in high school if I acted the way that some of the kids do now I would not of seen graduation day.


Yes it's an issue everywhere, we should all do what we can to address it in our communities and ask our Utah sports association to adequately address the issue. While this comment is true, it's a way of wanting to brush it aside because well...it happen everywhere right? Nah, racism is an issue in Utah, and as someone who grew up and still lives in the rural Utah bubble, it's not as uncommon or as rare as it's made to be, and I get thats uncomfortable to admit. When these small rural schools play the academy schools up north I've heard plenty of comments from more than just a few people. Not even necessarily yelling it at players or coaches but comments they are comfortable making to the people sitting around them, and in their mind think there's no issue with such behavior. Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking, and as uncomfortable as it is to say or talk about, racism is very much an issue, specially in rural Utah and far too often rears it's ugly head and show itself at high school sporting events. Being heckled in any way because of the color of your skin, is one of the trashiest things there is, let alone in a high school venue with kids trying to make something of themselves. I don't care for the Utah sports association response to it either.

You can respect someone's free speech and not tolerate that kind of garbage within your sporting events. You have no problem cutting back or handing down punishment for swearing but racial slurs we're gonna protect that in our venues under "free speech". No, there should be a zero tolerance for such garbage at any time at a high school event and the fan should be kicked out and banned and somewhere like Tabiona who doesn't adequately address it should feel the repercussions. No ones asking you to arrest someone for something they said or charge them legally for their speech, but it should not be allowed or tolerated in high school sports and there should be no tolerance for it. Being soft on fans who use racist heckling at high school games is an embarrassment in every way and anyone protecting it in any venue or not saying something to the person doing it should be ashamed. And yes if I hear any of it, I absolutely say something.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I think Parents/Fans trying to live vicariously through the Athlete are among most of the worst. Doesn't mater where you're at, or State.


I'm happy my kids are Adults and I don't have to listen to it anymore.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Racism and all forms of bigotry are ugly and inappropriate in any arena. And I’m not talking about just sports arenas. There is no place for it and no excuse for it. 



1-eye, sounds like you’ve had a ton of experience with this. Let’s hear about these incidents and what you said to respond. How did the offenders respond to you when you spoke up? Maybe your actions could inspire others. Let’s not talk in generalities and in the abstract. Let’s hear your experiences.



PS- Drisdom was a heck of a player. I had no idea he was coaching in Utah still. That’s pretty cool!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Racism and all forms of bigotry are ugly and inappropriate in any arena. And I'm not talking about just sports arenas. There is no place for it and no excuse for it.
> 
> 1-eye, sounds like you've had a ton of experience with this. Let's hear about these incidents and what you said to respond. How did the offenders respond to you when you spoke up? Maybe your actions could inspire others. Let's not talk in generalities and in the abstract. Let's hear your experiences.
> 
> PS- Drisdom was a heck of a player. I had no idea he was coaching in Utah still. That's pretty cool!


It's really quite simple. Describing the kids using the N word because they don't like the private schools with those players playing against the small schools here. I'm not saying it's a majority, I'm simply saying there's more than many are comfortable to admit that are like that in our communities. Many times it wasn't them saying it to the players or coaches or using it as heckling but just saying it while talking to other parents/fans, people I know as well, and I simply say it's not okay and don't use that garbage around me. It's just as bad when you're saying amongst those you're comfortable with vs yelling it at a player as heckling. It exists, and it should be firmly addressed in high school sports around our state. It's unacceptable and it's unacceptable when a school like Tabiona really doesn't do much about it and just let's the situation get worse. There should be serious ramifications for such garbage for both the fan and the school if they don't address it.

I mean I can't really go down the "Obama wasn't born here...." BS but it's only been a few weeks since I heard someone who actually still believes he wasn't.....I mean. It exists.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I grew up in a very racist small town in Idaho. non-white players of other teams were treated horribly. That included athletes that were hispanic, Native American, and African-American. It was interesting to me back int he 80s, the junior high teams from many schools were far more diverse than the varsity squads. As kids got older, the crowds got bigger, the racial taunts got worse, and it just wasn't worth it and kids just stopped playing. I remember many times on the court, apologizing to opposing players for the yells from the stands, and even saying "Just hit the shot and shut them up!" I'll admit to giving a step or a shot to more than one player over it. And my town is not far removed from that thinking even today - which is why I'd never consider living there again. 

I like to think that racism has diminished, and I guess in m any ways it has. I have seen tangible changes through the decades. But there is still far to go. One thing I love about sports is that ability and performance are race neutral - the best players rise to the top. I think in the NFL more than any other pro-league. With the uniforms, really, it is hard to see race, which is good. 

But bigotry is a hard one for sure. In the case of high school and youth athletics, I think the issue is almost never with the athletes. It is almost always with the fans. And to that, the solution is simple. Don't let fans watch. Let the kids play. Live-stream the game so those that want to watch can, but the players don't have to hear the racism. And the kids don't lose the great opportunity for learning that competitive sports allows.
But that's just me.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Don't think the problem doesn't trickle down to the players. And, racism goes both ways too. Since I have been coaching, I have seen racist treatment towards minority players and racist treatment from minority players towards white kids. Just last year, I watched a state tournament game where black kids were taunting white kids with shouts of "honky" and "white cracker". In fact, one black player went as far as spitting in a white player's face. If we are truly going to end this kind of behavior from kids not only in the stands but also on the floor, it has to be stopped on both ends.

I believe the level of trash talking you can witness virtually in every NBA game is a big part of the problem we see on the high school level. Though the level of trash talk in the pro game doesn't usually get into racist taunts, high school kids don't know the lines that can and can't be crossed.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> It's really quite simple. Describing the kids using the N word because they don't like the private schools with those players playing against the small schools here. I'm not saying it's a majority, I'm simply saying there's more than many are comfortable to admit that are like that in our communities. Many times it wasn't them saying it to the players or coaches or using it as heckling but just saying it while talking to other parents/fans, people I know as well, and I simply say it's not okay and don't use that garbage around me. It's just as bad when you're saying amongst those you're comfortable with vs yelling it at a player as heckling. It exists, and it should be firmly addressed in high school sports around our state. It's unacceptable and it's unacceptable when a school like Tabiona really doesn't do much about it and just let's the situation get worse. There should be serious ramifications for such garbage for both the fan and the school if they don't address it.
> 
> I mean I can't really go down the "Obama wasn't born here...." BS but it's only been a few weeks since I heard someone who actually still believes he wasn't.....I mean. It exists.


I know it exists, and it's ulgy. Read my post again you were replying to. You didn't really answer my question, but that's okay. We'll just both agree that these incidents suck and show the worst side of human nature. I wish there was a magic formula to stamp it out. Kicking a fan out, while a very appropriate response to this type of behavior, is not going to change that person's heart. And that is what needs to happen if this crap is going to go away.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Bear River High School In Tremonton/Garland was bad back in the day.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> Don't think the problem doesn't trickle down to the players. And, racism goes both ways too. Since I have been coaching, I have seen racist treatment towards minority players and racist treatment from minority players towards white kids. Just last year, I watched a state tournament game where black kids were taunting white kids with shouts of "honky" and "white cracker". In fact, one black player went as far as spitting in a white player's face. If we are truly going to end this kind of behavior from kids not only in the stands but also on the floor, it has to be stopped on both ends.
> 
> I believe the level of trash talking you can witness virtually in every NBA game is a big part of the problem we see on the high school level. Though the level of trash talk in the pro game doesn't usually get into racist taunts, high school kids don't know the lines that can and can't be crossed.


Yep, agree and have witnessed this. Go out of state with the travel team to Nevada and Cali for these youth tournaments and see the treatment your predominantly white team gets. It's not good.

It's a problem that is more than just a few words towards one minority. It goes every which direction, and is beyond just race. The article uses the "b" word and "a-hole" as examples. Those aren't racist, but they still shouldn't be acceptable at games. Parents and players alike at these events can get very out of hand.

Edit: This reminds me of a clip I saw of Tyler Herro being harassed, with slurs about his race being said. Then he lit the team up for 40+ points.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Don't think the problem doesn't trickle down to the players. And, racism goes both ways too. Since I have been coaching, I have seen racist treatment towards minority players and racist treatment from minority players towards white kids. Just last year, I watched a state tournament game where black kids were taunting white kids with shouts of "honky" and "white cracker". In fact, one black player went as far as spitting in a white player's face. If we are truly going to end this kind of behavior from kids not only in the stands but also on the floor, it has to be stopped on both ends.
> 
> I believe the level of trash talking you can witness virtually in every NBA game is a big part of the problem we see on the high school level. Though the level of trash talk in the pro game doesn't usually get into racist taunts, high school kids don't know the lines that can and can't be crossed.


I agree 100%, there are issues from both directions and just a behavior issue overall. I'm more looking at what I've seen/heard in rural parts of our state specifically when I feel like too many want to pretend it's not sill a pretty prevalent issue in our community and society. It would be nice to see the Utah sports association take behavior more seriously than the response to this. No one really ever wants to acknowledge or talk about how it's still very much a problem, and that's an issue. I know I've seen/heard far more of it than I ever want to believe exists within our communities and it's something we should all address to the extent that we can to improve it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Grind that axe! Grind it good.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

It's a problem here, there and everywhere. It goes from white to black to brown to red to yellow and every color, race, creed and if nothing else exists from the farm, to the town to the city and even what side of the railroad tracks you live in. Human behavior is the worst when it comes to competitive endeavors. But, it also rises above and beyond because of the competition. If not for competitiveness we would not have made the advances we have as humans. Most of these problems start within the home and carry on to the rest of society as we get older and start to gravitate to those of like-mindedness. We make excuses for or stay silent about those that engage in this behavior because they are friends or family and, in the big picture, they aren't all that bad or it's just a minor flaw. They really are good folks! None of us are free of guilt when it comes to this kind of behavior. However, all we can really do is take a good hard look at ourselves and curtail this behavior in ourselves first and then condemn those that engage in it around us. We must not stay silent and we must not tolerate it in any way shape or form, staying silent about it is by definition condoning it. 

Something I have to point out that has fueled the flames of this behavior was brought up by a few of you and that is the reverse racism that we as a society have tolerated. Many in our society believe and worst of all preach to our younger generations that racism is only a white person disease. They insist that an oppressed minority group by definition cannot be racist against it's oppressor because of it's position as an oppressed group. To me this is the epitome of hypocrisy, bigotry and worst of all ignorance. Calling a black person a n....r is just as bad as calling a Hispanic person a w.t b..k or a white person a c.....r. The terms are intended to be derogatory and insulting and have no place in a civilized society.

Bottom line is you have to say something and you have to act on it if you hear it or experience it. If the guy next to you yells something like this out. Call him out on it, make him feel as uncomfortable as possible and get him thrown out of the venue. Take his picture and post a story about it. make them understand that this sort of thing has no place in any kind of setting.

I'm starting to rant and I am getting angry so......Peace my brothers and sisters!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

taxidermist said:


> I think Parents/Fans trying to live vicariously through the Athlete are among most of the worst. Doesn't mater where you're at, or State.


Yep. That and "racism" is fostered from the unfair advantage a certain ethnicity has via government favor. There are some harsh feelings even today in my neck of the woods from the clothing program local reservations received from the government that "white kids" didn't get to have even though some of those families had little income as well. Many reservation residents driving nicer vehicles than anyone on this forum. That is the governments fault, both Federal and Tribal, for creating a state of socialism on the reservations.

White privilege does not exist. That is a political talking point to drive a wedge in society and blame people for working hard and being successful today or years ago and their posterity is able to benefit from it.

Taking risks and making your own luck has nothing to do with skin pigment.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I have had a number of experiences that have shaped my views on race issues that I won't detail here, but I'll share one book I read years ago that I think spoke to me and helped me make sense of some of the things I was experiencing and struggling with on the topic.

White Guilt, by Shelby Steele. This is not a perfect dissertation on the topic, but it's certainly a strong perspective and many of his ideas have merit in my opinion, particularly the over-compensating we see in some circles on both sides of this issue. Here is a link to an interview with Steele (who is African American) on NPR. I see a lot of 1-eye in his comments.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5385701

Racism exists. It's ugly in every form. We should stand up against it when we see it. We should also not perpetuate stereotypes and stigmatizations on any side of this as well. As I said before, people have to change their hearts.

In the immortal words of the great John Coffey: "Mostly, I'm tired of people being ugly to each other. I'm tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world... every day. There's too much of it. It's like pieces of glass in my head... all the time. Can you understand?"


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I was stopped at a crosswalk the other day while kids were being led across the street. A group of kids, Hispanic, Asian, Black, and White were all together looking like they were having the time of their life. I remembered this thread, and wonder if they will remain friends or become mean and disrespectful to each other when they enter Jr. High and High School. 


I honestly believe that we as Adults are the ones that can plant the seed of racism, or a positive Human Being in Equality through our words and most importantly, our actions.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

taxidermist said:


> I honestly believe that we as Adults are the ones that can plant the seed of racism, or a positive Human Being in Equality through our words and most importantly, our actions.


Once again, I agree. The largest contributor to ongoing ethnic intolerance are from what I call members of the "one towner club" These are the people that have spent their entire lives in one small town. I know a lot of them...


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> I was stopped at a crosswalk the other day while kids were being led across the street. A group of kids, Hispanic, Asian, Black, and White were all together looking like they were having the time of their life. I remembered this thread, and wonder if they will remain friends or become mean and disrespectful to each other when they enter Jr. High and High School.
> 
> I honestly believe that we as Adults are the ones that can plant the seed of racism, or a positive Human Being in Equality through our words and most importantly, our actions.


Agreed.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

taxidermist said:


> I honestly believe that we as Adults are the ones that can plant the seed of racism, or a positive Human Being in Equality through our words and most importantly, our actions.


Very true! I'm not much of a quote guy, but I really like this one:

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of their skin, or their background, or their religion. People just learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite." - Nelson Mandela

I've had the opportunity to raise my children for different periods of time in Illinois, Texas and Utah. In each of these places, my children went to church, school, played sports, swam and interacted daily with those of another race - much more outside of Utah than inside of Utah. Of the three places I've been, Utah is the most racist state I've been in.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that the problem with Utah was that there were very few minorities in the state, even up to and including the 60's. 

I went to school in Orem and Provo in the 60's and there were none that I really remember. I thought that it was unique that there was a black athlete playing down in Price at Carbon High. I also remember all the field workers that came up from Mexico to pick fruit and down in Green River to pick melons but there was very little inter mingling between the workers and the citizens of the towns to learn that they were just people. 

I also remember as I traveled around with my dad who worked construction to all the western states seeing the two drinking fountains, swimming pools, tables in the back of restaurants and other places for "colored people" in the southern states. It didn't even dawn on me until a black friend of mine and I went swimming at a public pool down in Texas when he said that he had to go into a different pool to swim. That had a dramatic effect on me. 

I do remember that if I wanted to play with others that I just went out to play with the neighbors or friends that I made in school. It didn't matter to me what color they were and it didn't matter to them that I was white. I did have some problems with a few but don't all kids?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Critter said:


> I think that the problem with Utah was that there were very few minorities in the state, even up to and including the 60's.
> 
> I went to school in Orem and Provo in the 60's and there were none that I really remember. I thought that it was unique that there was a black athlete playing down in Price at Carbon High. I also remember all the field workers that came up from Mexico to pick fruit and down in Green River to pick melons but there was very little inter mingling between the workers and the citizens of the towns to learn that they were just people.
> 
> ...


It's crazy to think how we aren't that far removed from the times where those sorts of policies were still in place. Yes there is a privilege to not being part of the group enslaved and discriminated against for hundreds of years and even as recently as less than 100 years were still getting discriminated against by actual laws and policies in this country, and there are current day ramifications for the horrible past on many communities, attitudes, and people today.

I certainly think the issues of race and other cultures is something people in our state could do a better job of understanding, and doing something to address the issues we have here a bit more seriously.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

It’s crazy to think that until 1976 the state of Missouri had an extermination order in effect against anyone that was a member of one specific religion. Bigotry comes in all shapes and sizes. It isn’t only race that marginalizes populations. 

I am born and bred here in Utah. I don’t know that I have ever associated with anyone that was truly a racist. I’ve heard bigoted and ignorant comments made, but I don’t recall a single person I’ve spent any significant time around that hated or even disliked another person on account of their race. I’m sure there was someone along the way, but they did not broadcast that openly. I do, however, encounter a number of people that harbor ill-will towards people on account of other factors, such as religion. And they do wear those feelings on their sleeves proudly. Why is that viewed as okay by so many? 

I like the quote by Mandela, and agree with it. Hate is learned behavior. It doesn’t take much to break the cycle, though. Love will always win out if we want it to.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> It's crazy to think that until 1976 the state of Missouri had an extermination order in effect against anyone that was a member of one specific religion. Bigotry comes in all shapes and sizes. It isn't only race that marginalizes populations.
> 
> I am born and bred here in Utah. I don't know that I have ever associated with anyone that was truly a racist. I've heard bigoted and ignorant comments made, but I don't recall a single person I've spent any significant time around that hated or even disliked another person on account of their race. I'm sure there was someone along the way, but they did not broadcast that openly. I do, however, encounter a number of people that harbor ill-will towards people on account of other factors, such as religion. And they do wear those feelings on their sleeves proudly. Why is that viewed as okay by so many?
> 
> I like the quote by Mandela, and agree with it. Hate is learned behavior. It doesn't take much to break the cycle, though. Love will always win out if we want it to.


Neither is okay. I see the religion things as well, they aren't okay, but thats deflection. Just because I'm discussing or talking about how one thing is bad doesn't mean I'm excusing something else. Our state and communities can and should strive to do better on race issues, and we as individuals as well.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Our state and communities can and should strive to do better on race issues, and we as individuals as well.


I agree that collectively as a society we still have a long ways to go on this issue. And if you feel you need to do better individually, I would strongly encourage you to do so. There is no place for hate or bigotry of any kind, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I think racism, prejudice, and bigotry has, and will always exist. Primarily due to our tribalistic nature. It's been my experience that actual, real, racism (not made up ill conceived notions of it contrived by overly sensitive people looking for a crusade where non exists); is actually fairly rare. 

What I find funny, is in this impossible crusade in our society today to stamp out all forms of bigotry, is we are actually the least racist society. At least from my experience; the social justice warriors running around our country haven't been to a place like Korea; and I could write quite a bit about it. Asia in general can be extremely racist, holding longstanding grudges. 

Generally speaking, I think all people are prejudice or bigoted against *something* (not necessarily skin color), all were talking about is a matter of degree. Some people are far more prejudiced or bigoted then others, while others are only minutely so. Don't misconstrue what I'm writing here has an excuse or denial of racism, but rather a dim view of the hyper sensitivity to the subject this day and age; as well as group identity politics that I feel is responsible for it.

We would go far as a society, if people would stop describing themselves with a freaking hyphen, and just say American, without any prefix.


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