# San Juan Archery Elk



## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

I was lucky enough to pull an expo tag this year for the San Juan. I’ve been debating on even hunting the opening week or staying home and focusing on the last few weeks towards the rut. Any thoughts? Anyone archery hunted the unit? I would guess I’d have to sit water those first weeks. If anyone is open to sharing some general info I’d appreciate it! 

Thanks


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I'll let you know once the results are out, put in for it as well.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I think you hunt when you can on a tag like that. If you have time to go and scout and pattern a couple bulls, the best chance to kill them might just be in the first few days of the hunt. 

If you don't have as much time to go down and scout, then maybe getting closer to the rut would be beneficial.

The real answer, in my opinion, is still just hunt when you can when you strike gold and get a tag like that. It is not likely to happen again.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

There is a reason I have been chasing spikes and cows the past 4 years


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## hogg65 (Apr 5, 2018)

tgurn7 pm sent.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Wait til I knock down my deer, then go down so I am there when you smoke it Ty!


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

Vanilla and High Desert, I appreciate the responses. Especially since its my first post. I've been a long reader, just never posted. Vanilla, if I'm not mistaken you have quite a few points saved for this unit, correct? I'm with ya, that the more time spent equates to better opportunities. Can't kill anything from the couch or camp.. Unfortunately, work might not give me as much time off as I'd prefer so just debating on some things. 

High Desert, if you don't draw, i'd def appreciate that PM. Again, i know that nobody wants to give out GPS cords and i get that. But if anyone has any info on water etc I'd appreciate it. As for scouting goes, i know i can find them and locate them easily but i don't know the unit and don't know what the herd will do once summer changes to mid August-Sept.


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

RandomElk16, B-Man, that you?


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

There is more water in that unit than many realize - springs, creeks, seepage's, etc.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

tgurn7- yes, I have 20 points. Most years they been utilized in the draw for the San Juan. A couple times I deviated, and tried a different unit, but this year they are back on the SJ. I have dreamed of hunting elk on that unit ever since we did a family muzzy deer hunt down there 15+ years ago. Some of the bulls we saw just made my jaw drop. And listening to the screams all night around camp...I still get a smile thinking about it. One day, maybe. I am not too far from the muzzy tag down there, but I still dream to hunt it with a rifle in hand. I’ll cross that bridge when I get there.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Vanilla - don't discount the muzzy hunts for LE elk. Dates are better and success rates are just about as good as rifle. For rifle you might have to wait another 10 years when you could be hunting those elk in the near present. Just think, tag in hand chasing screaming bulls that keep you up at night. Doesn't get much better!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

It's no secret why the SJ tag is a tough one to draw. I have been within 40 yds of 360 class bulls with a GS archery tag in my pocket many times and have seen bigger as well.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

MWScott72 said:


> Vanilla - don't discount the muzzy hunts for LE elk. Dates are better and success rates are just about as good as rifle. For rifle you might have to wait another 10 years when you could be hunting those elk in the near present. Just think, tag in hand chasing screaming bulls that keep you up at night. Doesn't get much better!


Great advice. It's definitely not out of the cards. I'm still a couple years away from the SJ muzzy. When I reach the top point pool I will have a decision to make. Or I can just go hunt Pahvant muzzy next year... (Horrible problem to have, I know!)

There is no doubt that a tag in hand on that unit, any tag in hand, is going to be a special experience. Heck, I didn't tag out on my general deer tag all those years ago and I still think about that hunt in particular a ton! It's a special place, for sure.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

We have had 400" bulls from the SJ come into our meat processing and taxidermy shop. Not many places in the U.S. you can shoot a bull of that caliber for the price, even for a NR.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Archery
NE of the Bears Ears.
I know some water holes that are unreal!


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## utarchery (Jun 18, 2013)

^what he said!!


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

High Desert Elk said:


> So, did you draw anything @highdesertelk?


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

goofy elk said:


> Archery
> NE of the Bears Ears.
> I know some water holes that are unreal!


 would you be willing to share any of that info goofy elk?


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

High Desert Elk said:


> I'll let you know once the results are out, put in for it as well.


Any luck on a tag down there high desert?


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

Vanilla said:


> MWScott72 said:
> 
> 
> > Vanilla - don't discount the muzzy hunts for LE elk. Dates are better and success rates are just about as good as rifle. For rifle you might have to wait another 10 years when you could be hunting those elk in the near present. Just think, tag in hand chasing screaming bulls that keep you up at night. Doesn't get much better!
> ...


Vanilla, did you draw a tag for the unit or anything else? Just curious if you did and how many points you had


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

tgurn7 said:


> Any luck on a tag down there high desert?


I drew a GS Archery elk tag, at least I will anyway...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I did not draw. I now have 21 elk points.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

You never know when you will be that person with less than 2% odds and draw! Gotta keep on trying and hope that you get lucky. It happens every once in a blue moon.


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

I went down over memorial weekend and can't believe how dry the unit is this year. Many, including FS have said it's the driest year on record. This will definitely have an affect on antler growth but also a lot of wallows i found had dried up. I was able to find a lot of water, but most of them are right next to well traveled roads so I don't know how you would ever hunt those. I also was shocked at the lack of places to glass from on the elk ridge area. I know if you head over to the blues you can glass and spot and stalk but I wanted to focus more on the elk ridge area. Sitting water might be best if I can find a good wallow somehow but it seems like its risky waiting for a good bull to decide to hit that water.. Any thoughts or advice or if anyone would be willing to message any good wallows would be amazing. It is after all, a once in a lifetime tag so you wouldn't have to worry too much about seeing me there again


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

tgurn7 said:


> I went down over memorial weekend and can't believe how dry the unit is this year. Perfect! Find water and you'll find the elk!
> Many, including FS have said it's the driest year on record. This will definitely have an affect on antler growth but also a lot of wallows i found had dried up. I was able to find a lot of water, but most of them are right next to well traveled roads so I don't know how you would ever hunt those. You don't - you find water far away from the roads by scouting (via GoogleEarth and in person).
> I also was shocked at the lack of places to glass from on the elk ridge area. I know if you head over to the blues you can glass and spot and stalk but I wanted to focus more on the elk ridge area. Sitting water might be best if I can find a good wallow somehow but it seems like its risky waiting for a good bull to decide to hit that water. If you find an active wallow - fantastic! People kill bulls over waterholes every year - find some waterholes off the beaten path and set up some trail cameras.
> Any thoughts or advice or if anyone would be willing to message any good wallows would be amazing.Have you called the biologist over the unit and discussed where you might find water, off the beaten path, with him/her?
> It is after all, a once in a lifetime tag so you wouldn't have to worry too much about seeing me there againNot to be a jerk, and I understand that my comments are probably coming off a little bit like I'm a jerk. . . But, it seems like you are looking for someone's handouts for this once-in-a-lifetime tag. Have you contacted any outfitters/guides? You might get a bargain and/or they might help point you in the right direction.


See red for a few thoughts. Also, it seems like you have quite the group of guys on MM sending you information. . .


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Congrats on the tag!! No doubt you will have the hunt of a lifetime. Ive been reading your threads here and on MM and I am sensing that you are feeling a little overwhelmed with your good fortune at the expo. 

I have no experience with this unit but I have experience holding a coveted bull elk tag. 

My advice is that if you cant hire a guide which I assume you cant or you wouldn't be posting on multiple forums asking for help is that you sit back and decide what is the best plan of action for your hunt. You can eat the tag and get past it and even become a better elk hunter in the process. Dont let the pressure ruin the fun. 

If I were in your shoes and I asked for help on a forum and somebody on the internet told me where they tied up a 380 san juan bull to a tree for me (sarcasm intended for internet drama) I wouldn't be able to appreciate those horns as much as if I found it on my own. 

I say give it hell and get er done! You have plenty of knowledge on what to do from what I've read. You have starting points, you know to find wallows, water, hunt hard at the end, etc and the best unit in the state to hunt ny most counts. 

If you get down to the last few days and dont have a bull down then start asking the internet where they tied up that san juan bull of a lifetime. Thats what I would do if I were you. 

Good luck. I hope to see some pics of your bull by mid sept! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

Most importantly, keep the posts and pictures up to date on scouting and then the hunt once it begins for all the people who are willing to help. So many times people come on asking for advice, get it, and you never hear from them again. It's just common courtesy to post up pictures and stories of the adventure if you gain some knowledge from the good folks here.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

One thing to keep in the back of your mind, as though it really matters, is the infestation of doyle and crew scrambling around like ants on a hill looking for that 380 inch bull.

Don't be surprised to see a note on your windshield inviting you to hunt in a different location because they have a client chasing the same bull as you.

If this happens, tell them to POUND SAND!!


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

High Desert Elk said:


> One thing to keep in the back of your mind, as though it really matters, is the infestation of doyle and crew scrambling around like ants on a hill looking for that 380 inch bull.
> 
> Don't be surprised to see a note on your windshield inviting you to hunt in a different location because they have a client chasing the same bull as you.
> 
> If this happens, tell them to POUND SAND!!


It's interesting that in the 10 years I've heard about these accusations and incidents, I have still yet to see one pic of a truck blocking a road, 1 video of an altercation or private aircraft landing on the mountain who is occupied by a paying client or even 1 copy of these mysterious notes, but a picture of my license plates will make the rounds atleast once a year between Facebook, MM Instagram or here, and there's only 1 of me... not 30+ trucks running around state wide. I'm not siding with anyone, but every time I've run into an actual mossback employee on the mountain, I've never had any issues with them. And a couple times we were chasing the same animal.

One of the worst things Doyle ever did was make stickers with his logo and name available to the public. I'm not saying these events don't take place, but the odds of it just being some ****head wanna be punk kid who thinks he owns the mountain, are a lot greater than it being someone on mossbacks pay roll


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I agree that it could be very well be someone else - but one situation is all it takes to leave a bad taste in your mouth. I also know of people that have been "scolded" by them for shooting the very bull a client was chasing...

I also know of fairly local people who share the same "opinion" about it, so, take it for what it's worth.

I have also been on a hunt Mr. Moss was personally involved in and there was no feeling of a friendly campfire relationship.

The same goes for any outfitter who thinks they own a mountain, canyon, ridge, whatever...


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

sheepassassin said:


> It's interesting that in the 10 years I've heard about these accusations and incidents, I have still yet to see one pic of a truck blocking a road, 1 video of an altercation or private aircraft landing on the mountain who is occupied by a paying client or even 1 copy of these mysterious notes, but a picture of my license plates will make the rounds atleast once a year between Facebook, MM Instagram or here, and there's only 1 of me... not 30+ trucks running around state wide. I'm not siding with anyone, but every time I've run into an actual mossback employee on the mountain, I've never had any issues with them. And a couple times we were chasing the same animal.
> 
> One of the worst things Doyle ever did was make stickers with his logo and name available to the public. I'm not saying these events don't take place, but the odds of it just being some ****head wanna be punk kid who thinks he owns the mountain, are a lot greater than it being someone on mossbacks pay roll


This is an honest question - but have you been on any of the major units during a premium hunt?

You don't have the outfitter experience until you are on the Henry's or San Juan during an active LE hunt.


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## stick&string89 (Jun 21, 2012)

sheepassassin said:


> It's interesting that in the 10 years I've heard about these accusations and incidents, I have still yet to see one pic of a truck blocking a road, 1 video of an altercation or private aircraft landing on the mountain who is occupied by a paying client or even 1 copy of these mysterious notes, but a picture of my license plates will make the rounds atleast once a year between Facebook, MM Instagram or here, and there's only 1 of me... not 30+ trucks running around state wide. I'm not siding with anyone, but every time I've run into an actual mossback employee on the mountain, I've never had any issues with them. And a couple times we were chasing the same animal.
> 
> One of the worst things Doyle ever did was make stickers with his logo and name available to the public. I'm not saying these events don't take place, but the odds of it just being some ****head wanna be punk kid who thinks he owns the mountain, are a lot greater than it being someone on mossbacks pay roll


I run into the Mossback crew on the San Juan every year. I have never had an issue with any of the guides. PM me if you have any questions on the Elk Ridge side I will help where I can.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

High Desert Elk said:


> I agree that it could be very well be someone else - but one situation is all it takes to leave a bad taste in your mouth. I also know of people that have been "scolded" by them for shooting the very bull a client was chasing...
> 
> I also know of fairly local people who share the same "opinion" about it, so, take it for what it's worth.
> 
> ...


Hunting in Utah is extremely competitive, of course they aren't gonna be friends about it for the most part, especially when it's their livelihood and need big animals because they bring big tips. But just because they don't invite you to come down for a winnie roast every night and sit around and talk about where all the big **** is hiding out, doesn't make them bad people. And be honest, how many locals go out of their way to be friendly to guys hunting "their" area? I've never run into locals on a mountain near their town who were thrilled about me being up there when I'm from 50+ miles away. Infact most grill me on how I know about the area, who told me where to go, where my family was from, how long they have been hunting there, who my grandparents were, what year they started hunting there, etc...


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

RandomElk16 said:


> This is an honest question - but have you been on any of the major units during a premium hunt?
> 
> You don't have the outfitter experience until you are on the Henry's or San Juan during an active LE hunt.


Yes I've been on the San Juan and Henry's both during LE and OIL hunts. Never had any issues with mossback or any other outfitters in the area. Everyone kinda went their own separate ways and made an effort to stay away from each other. Infact during a bison hunt on the Henry's I had a mossback guy flag me down and tell me where he'd just seen some in a chained area not far off the road. We ended up killing out of that group he'd told us about. Without their help, I dunno that I would have ever thought to look there for them


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

sheepassassin said:


> Hunting in Utah is extremely competitive, of course they aren't gonna be friends about it for the most part, especially when it's their livelihood and need big animals because they bring big tips. But just because they don't invite you to come down for a winnie roast every night and sit around and talk about where all the big **** is hiding out, doesn't make them bad people. And be honest, how many locals go out of their way to be friendly to guys hunting "their" area? I've never run into locals on a mountain near their town who were thrilled about me being up there when I'm from 50+ miles away. Infact most grill me on how I know about the area, who told me where to go, where my family was from, how long they have been hunting there, who my grandparents were, what year they started hunting there, etc...


It is competitive - and yeah some locals are rough. There is no denying. On LE units though- I have first hand witnessed the entitlement that goes with someone who is making $15K off a public resource on public land. They DO care that someone is in the way.



sheepassassin said:


> Yes I've been on the San Juan and Henry's both during LE and OIL hunts. Never had any issues with mossback or any other outfitters in the area. Everyone kinda went their own separate ways and made an effort to stay away from each other. Infact during a bison hunt on the Henry's I had a mossback guy flag me down and tell me where he'd just seen some in a chained area not far off the road. We ended up killing out of that group he'd told us about. Without their help, I dunno that I would have ever thought to look there for them


That's great- sometimes they are helpful. I have met some really nice guides. Not always the case when you are going after "their" 200"+ or 380"+ animal. Mossback sends clients pictures of animals - client picks the one they want. I asked how often they kill a different animal and they laugh and say "that would be nice".

In their mind - they very much own an animal and sometimes their "friendliness" is honestly to get you out of an area. These days, with everything being filmed and reported it is getting better. Instagram can spread an incident in 5 minutes.

They aren't all bad - and I don't want to derail the thread and go back and forth. You obviously have a strong stance - which like the negative ones come from somewhere. One good experience doesn't lead to this type of passion IMO lol.

I don't think the standing up for Mossback stance is needed. They make plenty of money to wipe any hurt feelings of reputation. A reputation that didn't come out of nowhere.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

RandomElk16 said:


> It is competitive - and yeah some locals are rough. There is no denying. On LE units though- I have first hand witnessed the entitlement that goes with someone who is making $15K off a public resource on public land. They DO care that someone is in the way.
> 
> That's great- sometimes they are helpful. I have met some really nice guides. Not always the case when you are going after "their" 200"+ or 380"+ animal. Mossback sends clients pictures of animals - client picks the one they want. I asked how often they kill a different animal and they laugh and say "that would be nice".
> 
> ...


Again, after 10+ years I've yet to see any actual proof of claims made by people of the events that supposedly happened. You'd think by now something would have been documented. Hell I've even seen more believable Bigfoot evidence than I have mossback evidence

To be clear, I'm not siding with the guides and outfitters on this issue. I'm simply saying there is a lot of "stories" being told, but from my own personal experiences and lack of proof, it's hard to really believe this kinda stuff is going on. I mean a guy camping over Memorial Day has enough sense to video an incident with a pissed off guy that acted extremely stupid, and posted it online. With in hours this jackass was suspended from his job, cops got involved and by the weeks end he was fired. There's enough mossback haters out there that if this **** was really going down, people would be all over something like that, to document it and get it posted for the world to see. I bet you'd have people faster on the draw to get Facebook live rolling on a mossback incident, than if they had actually spotted a Bigfoot!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

sheepassassin said:


> I bet you'd have people faster on the draw to get Facebook live rolling on a mossback incident, than if they had actually spotted a Bigfoot!


You are right. These are all made up. They haven't ever done anything bad.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm glad some have had good experiences - just relaying some of mine and don't really care to get into a mud slinging contest. As far as the weenie roast comment, whoever said it, it was more than that and not even a hunt in UT but in my home state. It is complicated and doesn't need anymore discussion other than through PM if anyone is interested.

As far as locals go involving the SJ unit, all I have to do is state my pedigree and everyone I've ever met knows my mom's side of the family. In fact, I betcha I know who built and frequently used Blue Creek Cabin for years. Helped a local guide/outfitter family member drag a cow elk down the side of a mountian they had shot one year who's grandpa cut the terraces and low and behold knew my uncle very, very well. But in a town like that - who wouldn't.


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## tgurn7 (Apr 5, 2018)

I’ve been down a few more times since my last post and have found several great bulls. Water won’t be an issue since it’s rained tons the last month or so. I’ll try and keep this updated as the hunt comes and goes. 

Bottom line is that I couldn’t be happier or more fortunate to be able to have my first big bull hunt on a premier unit. I’ve decided to just go have fun and enjoy the hunt and not get caught up in the game of inches and size. Especially, since it was because of a 5 dollar raffle tag at the expo


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Any good looking bull will be in the 340 range and there are plenty of them.

Good luck!


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