# Reloading Question



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I am pretty new to the reloading aspect of the shooting sports, but I have gotten fed-up with paying astronomical prices for some of the bullets I shoot. I am currently working on reloading a 22 Hornet, but have run into a small snag. The reloading manual I have suggests using the CCI 400 primer, but I have some CCI 450's floating around. The 450's seem to fit the primer pocket of the brass but I am not sure if I should use it or not. The manual also suggests using the CCI 500 primer for pistol loads for the Hornet. Any suggestions? Or should I just use the suggested primers and not try using the 450's?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

the 450"s are used for the your magnum loads they will burn hotter,
here is cci usuage chart
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... _chart.htm


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

The magnum primers can elevate your pressures above safe levels. This will probably not blow up your gun, but will result in erratic pressures, not so good accuracy, and shorten the life of your brass. They are not needed in such a small case with the faster (easier to ignite) powders that are suitable for the Hornet. Or you could just shoot up the 450's, but stay a bit below the maximum loads. They won't really hurt if you are shooting them during colder weather. Might actually help if the powder you are using is one of the more temperature sensitive types.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Magnum primers put out a hotter, bigger flame. This can raise pressures somewhat. In a small case like that of the .22 Hornet, it can be a bit too much. That is why a standard primer like the 400 is better. In fact many have switched to using Small Pistol primers, like the CCI 500, with their smaller flame to improve accuracy in the Hornet, so that info from Speer/CCI is good too.
The Hornet is one of the fussier cartridges to load for as to finding accuracy.


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

Don't use pistol primers in high pressure cartridges, like the Win 308 or Magnum rifles. they are not constructed to handle high pressure. And firing pins in pistols may not strike rifle primers hard enough for them to pop. Because they ARE designed for higher pressure. Pistol primers should be fine in lower pressure rifle cartridges, like the .30-30 or the hornet.


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## yotee (Oct 10, 2008)

Ditto on the primers, stick with the what the manual says. Also a 22 hornet uses very thin brass. Be very careful seating the bullets.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks for all your replies!
One last question; Obviously every primer manufacturer has their own number to designate which primer is which. And each manuafcturer has a different number to designate such. Is there a website or a table or something that shows each manufacturer's primer equivalent so that I can try different primers to see which I like best?


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

I don't know of any table that covers all manufacturers primers. I have found the brand that is most often always available locally is the CCI brand. Because of that I have used lots of their primers with no disappointments. So, if I have a choice when I need primers, I always buy CCI. Yes, the primer can effect the load somewhat. I would recommend using the primer suggested in the loading data, or if using a different brand, use the same type, i/e "small rifle" type, of whatever brand. I would not use the Magnum primers for that cartridge. 

Usually primers are designated Small Rifle, Large Rifle, Small Pistol, or Large Pistol. Then some have the Magnum designation added for primers intended for Magnum loads with slower burning powders. 

Have fun and be careful. Its a great hobby. 

PS You have probably already loaded those up? Let us know how they worked?


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

The RCBS software reloading program has a cross reference to a bunch of manfacturers.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks for all the input guys!
So, I loaded the Hornet up with the following:

11.5 grains of Lil' Gun
Remington 6 1/2 primer
Barnes 36 grain Varmint Grenades
Winshester brass

They shoot great! Group much better than the factory LRNs that I was shooting, and MUCH less expensive


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Did you work that up or did you pull a rabbit out of your @ss?  

Getting a load that you are satisfied with on the first try is almost like winning the lottery. :mrgreen: 
I have never done EITHER ONE! :wink:


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

It all depends on your expectations. I would never expect an off the shelf rifle to shoot five shots into 3/8ths of an inch. Especially a 22 Hornet. But then again, that kind of accuracy is not necessary at the ranges that a Hornet is normally used. Not everybody needs a perfect rifle. Most set a goal, and when they reach that goal (say 1" groups at 100 yards), they decide that their load development is over, and it is time to go hunting. And I have found loads that work for me on the first try. I have a load that puts three shots touching at 100 yards out of two different rifles. Makes it easier when I don't have to separate my loads for those two different rifles.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm definitely not going to make wild claims regarding the accuracy of the load I previously listed, but the groups are definitely smaller than the factory loads and I like the idea of having more aerodynamically correct bullets than I normally find. 

I really just tweaked the suggested load data from two of my manuals. Most guys I talked to suggested using the Lil' Gun powder and most seemed to like the Remington primers for the hornet better than CCI or Federal. So I just took what they had to say and made the load to my specifications. I didnt want an overly "hot" round to start with, but didnt want a wimpy load either. Since the hornet has such small casings, when powder is moved from 11 to 12 grains it becomes a compressed load, and I wasnt too sure I wanted to compress my first rounds too much so I figured that 11.5 grains should be a good jumping off point. Next time I'll try 12 to 12.5 grains and see if that makes any difference.

I know the Hornet isnt overly accurate, I just wanted a gun that not everyone shoots anymore. Seems lots of guys get so infatuated with the new best thing that they forgot where they started. I just thought this would be fun for bunny busting in the brush


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

The nice thing about compressed loads, if you can find one that is safe and accurate, is that they nearly always shoot consistently. I have had loads, particularly handgun loads, that change with powder position. One load in my .44 would shoot 3" goups at 50 yards if I just fired any old way, and 2" groups when I pointed the muzzle at the sky right before every shot.
The load was more accurate and reliable with the powder sitting back against the primer, than it was with the powder leveled along the down side of the cartridge.

I cannot remember if I read it, or it was someone that I knew, but there was a couple that liked to shoot competition using the same race gun. The husband worked up a load for the gun that fired within the competition specs. and away they went.
He shot his round and won it. The judges tested the load with their chrony and god knows what else and all was well.
The wife then shot her round and also won it. BUT when the judges tested her load, it tested HOT and they disqualified her. The husband protested this and pointed out to the judges that they had just PASSED the exact same gun and load with HIS victory and everybody was confused. :? Male and female classes were run separately, but with the same specs.
They had the husband refire the gun through the chrony and it passed. :? 
Then the wife re-fired the test, and FAILED. :shock:

They finally realized that when HE fired in the test, he performed certain motions with the gun that put the powder if one position, and when SHE fired in the test, she used different motions. This put the powder in a different position in the cartridge and made the load too hot.

They finally decided that during competition, she drew up out of the holster, leveled and fired. As did the husband. BUT, during the _test_, SHE pointed the gun upward and lowered it into firing position, while the husband simply leveled the gun and fired.
SO the verdict was that since the load passed during the positions actually used during shooting the competition, that they had indeed won. BUT recommeded strongly that they work up a different load to avoid such issues in the future.

This can be a factor in loads that do not fill the cartridge full enough to always cover the primer flash hole. Thus compressed loads NEVER shift at all and always fire the same. Excluding variables such as temp. etc. of course.
So if you compress a load and it is accurae and shows no pressure signs, you will be able to rely on it's performance being consistent.
Just remember that if you overcompress it, it will damage/distort the brass upon bullet seating.

_*HELP! I'M TYPING AND I CAN'T SHUT UP!!!!*_ *-HELP!-* *-HELP!-* *-HELP!-* *-HELP!-* -_O- Sorry for the novel.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Bax*, what kind of rifle are you using? The Hornet is known for having thin brass, so pushing the limits on the pressure is not good idea. Another trick for better accuracy (and better case life) would be to neck size your brass. Or partially full length size if you don't have a neck sizer. Adjust your sizer die so that it just barely touches the shoulder of the fired case, but doesn't set it back. You can do this by "smoking" the case (coating it with soot from a candle or lighter) and then running it into the sizing die. Turn it a 1/4 turn or so until you see that the die is just touching the case shoulder. You just want to keep the fire away from the powder. Not a good combination. I smoke the cases in the other room.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

> I smoke the cases in the other room


Loke does this so Mrs. Loke won't know he has a filthy habit..... :wink:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I must admit that I have never heard of smoking brass... but I am pretty new to reloading so I have been trying to start with conservative loads and work my way up from there


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Here is a very affordable reloading program that I just found on EBAY, those of you familiar with programs of this type want to glance at it and tell us what you think?
I think it looks pretty good, but all my reloading has been done with the book and bang method.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... EF:US:1123


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

I've never heard of it. But Barnes Bullets has a great web site, you can get their news letter via email each month for free. You can also join their Copper Club and get access to their ballisticians for free (I think). 
Here's a link to sign up. For 50 bucks you get some pretty good stuff.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/new_copper_signup.php


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Hey ARTOXX,

Heritage Arms in Midvale has a pretty sweet reloading program that they can enter any data (ie: powder weight and type, primer, bullet, etc) and they can give you a good idea of what kind of performance to expect. And they did it for free for me


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