# Hens?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Just wondering , I don't usually care to shoot hens, do you try to usually take males or throw the hens in the bag?


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm not a waterfowler so I'm wondering why not shoot hens too. I use to raise waterfowl (wood ducks, mallards and mandarins) and know they are monogamists birds. Wouldn't you want to shoot an equal number of hens and drakes?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

longbow said:


> I'm not a waterfowler so I'm wondering why not shoot hens too. I use to raise waterfowl (wood ducks, mallards and mandarins) and know they are monogamists birds. Wouldn't you want to shoot an equal number of hens and drakes?


I believe geese mate for life more often than ducks in the wild. I was just wondering like in a 7 bag limit, would you try to get 2 hens or go for all 7 greenheads?


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

We try to not shoot hens. But it happens. The last couple years we have donated $1 per hen shot in our group


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## Fin-S-Fish (Nov 5, 2007)

I hunt waterfowl only with a camera and birdwatch so I don't understand the age old idea of why hunters shoot just drakes. I've heard biologically, hens have lower overall survival rates due to stresses encountered during nesting and rearing ducklings. For example predation while on the nest. However, it doesn't really make sense. A hen can see and fly off the nest before any ground predator gets close. If it's an avian predator, the hen has equal chances as a drake would in getting away or getting eaten. Incubation surely drains and weakens the hen somewhat, but usually not to any detrimental extent. Ducks are monogamous only for one season, they "marry" in about Oct and separate in May when the hen incubates. If let's say a hen loses her husband to being shot late in winter like Jan, it will be fairly hard for her to find another drake to bond with because most drakes are already married and they won't cheat until their hen is brooding. By then it's a short window before he becomes sexually impotent and molts into eclipse. I would say shooting a paired drake would for sure impair breeding for the hen left behind. She may or may not breed that year.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

To me the simple basic fact is that 1 less hen=1 less nest in the spring. That said I have certainly shot my share of hens and I don't look down on anybody for doing it either, but I really do prefer to shoot drakes if I can. I don't really understand the reasoning behind having mallards be the only species with a specific hen limit when they are the most populous duck, it seems like legally killing 7 hen wigeon or teal would cause more population damage than illegally killing 7 hen mallards.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Fin-S-Fish said:


> I hunt waterfowl only with a camera and birdwatch so I don't understand the age old idea of why hunters shoot just drakes. I've heard biologically, hens have lower overall survival rates due to stresses encountered during nesting and rearing ducklings. For example predation while on the nest. However, it doesn't really make sense. A hen can see and fly off the nest before any ground predator gets close. If it's an avian predator, the hen has equal chances as a drake would in getting away or getting eaten. Incubation surely drains and weakens the hen somewhat, but usually not to any detrimental extent. Ducks are monogamous only for one season, they "marry" in about Oct and separate in May when the hen incubates. If let's say a hen loses her husband to being shot late in winter like Jan, it will be fairly hard for her to find another drake to bond with because most drakes are already married and they won't cheat until their hen is brooding. By then it's a short window before he becomes sexually impotent and molts into eclipse. I would say shooting a paired drake would for sure impair breeding for the hen left behind. She may or may not breed that year.


Go study up, as you dont even know what you dont know... and quit it with the disney_esc_-humanising mentality. Drake Mallards for one, dont have an issue visiting many different "flowers" when it comes time to get jiggy. :shock: Its more about day length for the most part with dabblers.

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/birds/dabduck/intro.htm

Photorefractoriness does not occur under long day lengths in late spring among species of dabbling ducks that breed in temperate regions of the Southern Hemisphere (Murton and Kear 1976). Species confined mostly to the tropics or otherwise distributed in the Southern Hemisphere have breeding seasons that are long and symmetrically positioned in relation to the summer solstice ("Type A" species of Murton and Kear [1976]). Type A species potentially can continue to breed until day length shortens to lengths that no longer are stimulatory. Conversely, species that nest in temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere have distinct short breeding seasons that end at long day lengths around the summer solstice ("Type B" species). Among the Type B species, long day length in late spring and early summer is generally considered to be the decisive factor that controls the end of breeding for the season. Type B species have photorefractory mechanisms that cause breeding to cease spontaneously when day lengths are still stimulatory (Murton and Kear 1976). Among Mallards (_Anas platyrhynchos_), the most studied species of the Type B group, laying dates, testicular mass changes, and histological investigations of the testes suggest that germ cell production is restricted to the period from March through June in the wild and in captivity (Hohn 1947; Johnson 1961, 1966; Donham 1979). Verification of absolute photorefractoriness in Mallards by late June under long day lengths has been demonstrated experimentally (Lofts and Coombs 1965, Haase 1983, Haase et al. 1985).


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I believe geese mate for life more often than ducks in the wild. I was just wondering like in a 7 bag limit, would you try to get 2 hens or go for all 7 greenheads?


Why not? Its a choice of the shooter whithin Federal Limit to do so.

Mate for life? In many cases, yes, but some studies find otherwise.

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Canada_Goose/lifehistory

They mate for life with very low "divorce rates," and pairs remain together throughout the year. Geese mate "assortatively," larger birds choosing larger mates and smaller ones choosing smaller mates; in a given pair, the male is usually larger than the female. Most Canada Geese do not breed until their fourth year; less than 10 percent breed as yearlings, and most pair bonds are unstable until birds are at least two or three years old. Extra-pair copulations have been documented.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

Without a drake, a hen cannot lay eggs. Then the hen becomes useless. I'm out to enjoy the sport and to bring home some meat. Hen tastes just like drake. They even die the same when you shoot them.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

We shoot what ever is the close to us. If it a hen she dies but yes we try shooting drakes. but they all taste great.


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## drakebob01 (Jun 25, 2008)

I try not to shoot hen pintails just because they are the ugliest duck out there! If a pair of mallards come in they hopefully will both die!


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm color blind (thanks grandpa) so unless the light is perfect, I usually can't tell what a duck is until it's dead at my feet. I've become quite unbiased on what I kill over the years.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I also follow the line of thinking that any hen killed during the hunt will be one less hen that could potentially lay an egg in the spring. I don't need the meat to survive, so why not be a bit selective? 
I'm not saying that it is a bad thing for others to do, but if you hunt in my circles of fellow waterfowlers, we don't kill hens on purpose.
R


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## avidhntr3 (Sep 26, 2007)

I'll try to pick the drakes out of a group, but if I single hen comes in, I don't generally pass on the opportunity.


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## Fin-S-Fish (Nov 5, 2007)

Longgun said:


> Go study up, as you dont even know what you dont know... and quit it with the disney_esc_-humanising mentality. Drake Mallards for one, dont have an issue visiting many different "flowers" when it comes time to get jiggy. :shock: Its more about day length for the most part with dabblers.
> 
> http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/birds/dabduck/intro.htm
> 
> Photorefractoriness does not occur under long day lengths in late spring among species of dabbling ducks that breed in temperate regions of the Southern Hemisphere (Murton and Kear 1976). Species confined mostly to the tropics or otherwise distributed in the Southern Hemisphere have breeding seasons that are long and symmetrically positioned in relation to the summer solstice ("Type A" species of Murton and Kear [1976]). Type A species potentially can continue to breed until day length shortens to lengths that no longer are stimulatory. Conversely, species that nest in temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere have distinct short breeding seasons that end at long day lengths around the summer solstice ("Type B" species). Among the Type B species, long day length in late spring and early summer is generally considered to be the decisive factor that controls the end of breeding for the season. Type B species have photorefractory mechanisms that cause breeding to cease spontaneously when day lengths are still stimulatory (Murton and Kear 1976). Among Mallards (_Anas platyrhynchos_), the most studied species of the Type B group, laying dates, testicular mass changes, and histological investigations of the testes suggest that germ cell production is restricted to the period from March through June in the wild and in captivity (Hohn 1947; Johnson 1961, 1966; Donham 1979). Verification of absolute photorefractoriness in Mallards by late June under long day lengths has been demonstrated experimentally (Lofts and Coombs 1965, Haase 1983, Haase et al. 1985).


You have quite the background knowledge that I respect, and I don't disagree with the article you quoted but a true scholar doesn't merely read what is written, he also engages in "empirical" research. After being competent in the subject matter through background literature survey reading, only field observation can produce new theories for potential publication in the academic literature. Yes, your article is well in keeping with the facts, mallards are impotent in June. But pair formation occurs in fall and winter. The male follows the hen to where she wants to nest. A single female will fly to the nesting grounds alone but if she lands next to a drake with a mate and lays down on the water, that drake isn't going to mount her. He will chase her away because she will compete for food with his mate. That goes for any pair or any hen that flies into the territory that an individual pair has set up. I have seen this many times birdwatching. That is empirical observation. Yes, drakes will rape but that is a whole different story. When his mated hen starts to sit, he will have lots of semen pent up at first. That is when he is likely to rape any hen he sees for a short time period. Almost always hens will resist, and utter a rape call. The raping doesn't help to fertilize a lone hen unless he bonds with her and stays with her for a bit. Most rapes are done on hens that are done laying so it doesn't do much for procreation. But mallards are more complex than lets say pheasants. A drake or duck will only mate with certain mates they find attractive and respect. If a drake is raping a duck, he almost certainly will not bond with her or stay with her. After he releases his load, he is gone. A drake will respect his partner and never force his partner for sex. But any other female after he loses his partner, he can and will force his way, since there is no bond or respect. Mallards mate for "love" and bonding too in the fall&#8230;..like your article says&#8230;..no gametes are released at that point, it is a dry orgasm. Gametes are only released March to June.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

if it's slow I'll shoot hens, if it's going to be a good day I'll hold out for drakes. All drakes make for prettier pictures!


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Dead hens don't lay eggs.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

blackdog said:


> Dead hens don't lay eggs.


neither do dead drakes


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Mating for life means just that. When one mate dies the surviving mate finds another mate. Unless they're ugly, of course, or maybe put on too many lbs.


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## elitewaterfowl (Sep 5, 2014)

Drakes easy! The waterfowl slam program has a band for anyone that kills 7 drake mallards in one day. :-o


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