# I think I'm done



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I decided to give it a little time before posting one of the most awful experiences I've had hunting to try and cool down. Here's what happened. 

The 2021 hunting season was one I considered a BOOM when it came to tags this year. Drew a LE Pronghorn, (tag punched) GS ML, (not a shot) Antlerless Elk (took 6 points) and an over the counter spike Elk tag. 

My Son, (30) that has been on the fence trying to decide if he wants to hunt anymore, or, go on vacations to Hawaii and other places, that has never killed an Elk was hunting with me this year. He snagged a spike tag before they were gone with a little prodding from me, and we made plans and was looking forward to the hunt. I wont bore you with the details of the entire hunt, just what happened the last day out. 

With the fresh snow on the ground and a break in the weather I had a very good idea where the Elk would be. Been there, done it so many times. Sure enough, the Elk were where I thought they would be and it was looking to be a great morning! Not a sole around but the two of us. There was about 25 in the group that were beginning to come out of the pine and quakes. We were both ready on the sticks for the shots. I wanted to wait and see if a spike was in the group to give my son first shot before taking a cow, when two guys in there mid 20's roll up and slam on the breaks. I mean they were 15 feet from us. One of the two says "you going to shoot or what?" I said yes, waiting for a spike to come out of the timber. Not 10 seconds after that, BOOM!!!, BOOM, BOOM. 

I was so pissed off!!! If I were 10 years younger, Life Flight would have to be called to lift two A-Holes to the hospital from life threatening injuries they sustained from an ass whipping!! 

Ya, they each had cow tags and managed to dump two cows. I called them some wonderful names, none of which were considerate, kind, sportsman, or "hunters".

After this experience I really don't care if I ever go hunting again. I know my Son has said he wont do it again. If I ever did anything like that when I was in my 20's, my Dad would have taken me behind the wood pile and made it so I couldn't sit down for a week! 

I know not all hunters are this way and I shouldn't base my decision to keep going or give it up on this one incident alone. But, I was on the fence with my son and this was the push that helped the decision. I'll spend the money I use for hunting and put it away for a vacation with the Wife to Hawaii every few years, more fishing trips to Alaska and so on. 

Its been a ball and had some wonderful times, shot many bucks, bulls, pronghorn and so on. Best of luck to the rest of you guys afield! There will be two more spots open for the draws from now on.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Rifle?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Rifle?


Yes


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Well, you know how it can be a circus better then I do.

Day after opening day, i was in panguitch, and I ended up in a conversation with 3 other hunters in the middle of the road at about 8:30 or so in the AM. One guy was from Cedar city, another from Ogden, the other guy was his brother, i assume from Ogden. I from Spanish Fork. It was a long conversation that ranged from elk, guns, crowds, local community issues, politics, everything under the sun. Three things that stuck out to me:

1. We all felt the same way, and had the same concerns.
2. A comment from the guy from Ogden, he said, "Utah is losing it's culture because of all the people moving in".
3. We were all surprised at how crowded it was that far south. I'll say it was maybe comparable to skyline drive.

Those jokers you ran into, I'm guessing could be the homegrown flat bill types, or some jackwagons who just moved in from out of state.

Anyway, maybe just hang up rifle season? It's where most of the jackwagons reside anyway. I'm guessing it's only worse now. Even 4 or so years ago, I noticed the changes in the pumpkin patch. Don't let them get you down, just hunt where or when you don't have the share the mountain with them.

On a somewhat related note. My 7.5 year old daughter is on fall break. I'm leaving the house around 9AM this morning. Taking her on her first big game hunt. She has the desire, but she doesn't know what she's getting into this time of the year. I don't want her traumatized, so i'm going to take her for a walk in some real flat areas. Told her she can bring her toy gun if she wants. I figure a couple hour walk, and some hot coa coa at the truck will make for a fun time. She just wants to get into "the tall mountains" as she calls them.

Hope I don't run into any jackwagons. Rifle is my least favorite season. In fact, this last sunday was my 10 year wedding annivsary. I drove the 4 hours home to be with the wife instead of putzing around the pumpkin patch kicking over elk turds. Just sayin'.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

These guys were "local boys" I'm sure. Just young guns trying to fill a tag at whatever cost. 

I've seen the change of what once was a family outing and gathering in the hunt camp, to crowded areas and hunters that don't give a hoot about the environment or the animals. Seeing beer cans, water bottles, candy wrappers, toilet paper and trash thrown out on the trails and roads makes me sick to my stomach. I tossed the cans and trash I saw in a bag to clean it up a little, but two days later it was worse that when I gathered the crap up. 

Many "hunters" not all, just don't have any respect for the outdoors or the environment at all. Besides, the quality and number of many big game species has dwindled down so much that its like searching for BIG foot on a mountain. You know it may be there, but you just have to find it.

Times have changed faster than what I imagined they would. It looks like a RV City now with every place to pull off the side of a road has a $60k rig set up, generators blaring so they can watch TV on the outside big screen, $40K Side x Sides, etc. I guess I'm "old school" with the wall tent, cook shack, gas lantern and horses and mules for mode of transportation and hauling game out of the woods. It's just not fun anymore.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I hate to say it but isn't just those that are coming in from out of state that are the problem, there are a lot of home grown hunters that are described above and I know 3 or 4 families just like them. And their families have been in Utah since the 1800's. 

It doesn't matter where you hunt, it is going to be crowded in a sense. With only 15,000 spike tags let out and who know how many cow tags hunters are going to shoot the first animal that they see and they don't care if someone else is near them. If it is a legal animal then they are going to shoot.

Taxidermist, it sounds like your son was on the fence teetering the other way to start with. I have family members who are are the same way. They could care less about the draws for a tag. One nephew has a dozen + elk points and I highly doubt that he'll ever put in for a tag or point again since his father passed away this last summer. He's the person who is the last to crawl out of his sleeping bag during the hunts. Not to mention paying attention to everything except for the animals. 

As for crowding this is where I prefer to do most of my hunting after the opening. People go home and leave the whole countryside to me and just a few others. The animals are not as stressed and it is a lot more fun.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

What did the kids say after you told them off?

I hope you at least stick around on here and keep contributing to the forum.


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## Stinky Boots (Jul 10, 2019)

I do not know you but have enjoyed your posts since joining, sorry to hear what happened and hope you stick around.


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## Hill Hunter (Dec 1, 2017)

I had a very similar experience two years ago. I had a spike tag and had found a group of elk in burned out timber slope, with at least one spike in it that I could see from a spot ~1000 yards away. I had spend an hour or so getting closer and was at the edge of the herd waiting for the spike to move into view. While I was watching the group a guy came barreling down the hill, I made eye contact with him assuming he would just hold back and watch the herd as well. But to my surprise he just charged right into the middle of them and shot at something. I never was able to see what if anything he shot. That was frustrating enough for me to quit for the year.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I'll stick around and post/comment when I feel the need or to just "ruffle some feathers"  Don't ban me Jeff or Critter....Please! 

I'll let this year pass and see what happens when the application time roles around and what interest there is with the young group I was trying to get involved with the hunting world. I know my negative comments in the field and stories from times past don't help keep them interested in the game. That's my bad! 

Ray, they basically told me to pack it in my ass and didn't care what they had done. 

That was the third similar incident I've had in that area over the last six years. Years past, I had a couple guys come into the camp and ask if I could pack an Elk out of a chit hole for them when they saw I had the pony's. They had spent the entire day trying to retrieve the Elk and were wore out to the point of exhaustion. I gladly helped them out and they offered me $$$ for helping them. I didn't take it, but mentioned they should be more aware of what they got into before pulling the trigger. I also believe in the "pass it on" method of helping folks out. It comes full circle at some point and good will surface every now and then.


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## utskidad (Apr 6, 2013)

I now feel the same about most activities that involve any people in any public places. The rules of the road we were taught for dealing with strangers are missing. Most people throughout history were far more skilled at dealing with strangers than today's generation. 

There's another dynamic at work. There is a generational division taught in our public schools They've taught the young people to hate the old people because we supposedly caused every bad thing that ever happened. Meanwhile, the young people think they invented every good thing that's ever happened, including things like charity and equality and protecting the environment. (How many of them know that Nixon started the EPA?) I have three times this year heard young people (not mine) recounting stories to their friends about "old guys" yelling at them to slow down and they all told of the same reaction: "I told them to mind their own business." 

I remember about two years back thinking we really hadn't been to Disney in a long time. Then I headed off to Costco for shopping. Sitting there eating my pizza watching the the mass of humanity ruthlessly compete for tables and places in the exit line, I knew a trip to Disney was a bad idea. The reality would never meet the expectation. 

There is also an issue with outsiders. I live in Summit County and see it all the time. People passing through or new to the area have a regular tendency to treat the locals like we're background cast members in their reality show. And we in Utah have relied on self-regulation of behavior rather than the police for generations. Many newcomers simply can't handle freedom to do the wrong thing. It's always the tourists parked in the fire lane at the Walmart. The only thing that kept them from doing that at home was fear of a ticket. Stop signs in my 25 mph neighborhood filled with small children might as well be taken down. It's as if they don't exist. 

For many, the only dividing line for anti-social behavior is whether it is criminal. Anything less than felony criminal is okay. I think the national lawlessness we witnessed in the last 18 months in the streets of our cities has really exacerbated that phenomenon. Nobody wants to be the last chump to obey a law that nobody is enforcing. I was in Salt Lake two weekends ago. Passed through that 55 mph construction on the east belt. Got passed by three different vehicles going 80 mph in the 55 construction zone on Sunday morning. 

In short, I think we now live in a world where the only limit on personal behavior is the criminal code, if and when there is a possibility of it's enforcement. And that is a rare circumstance.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> I decided to give it a little time before posting one of the most awful experiences I've had hunting to try and cool down. Here's what happened.


 Like you, I would've been ticked...their actions were totally disrespectful and totally inconsiderate.

With that being said, I would like to offer a suggestion. Instead of giving up the sport, try moving your hunting activities to areas with far fewer people. Look for those areas where there may be fewer animals, probably fewer opportunities for success, but a lot less likelihood for negative interactions with other hunters. If the actions of others are what is making hunting not enjoyable, look to hunt away from well-traveled areas...


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## TheOtherJeff (Oct 7, 2021)

taxidermist said:


> Many "hunters" not all, just don't have any respect for the outdoors or the environment at all.


That's brutal to hear, because that's exactly what's drawing me into hunting and fishing.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Taxidermist, 
That would have pissed me off to no end. Good job on self restraint after the action.

I'd agree with wyo2ut. If something is out of our control we tend to either beat our heads against the wall or shut down completely. Adapting might be the best option here. I mean adapting to what's best for your needs. Find time to take the vacations you want and hunt/apply for only the tags that have a high chance of positive outcomes for you. It sounds like the hunt experience is more valuable than filling the tag and I bet there is some place out there that fits that bill. I'd hate to see you stop hunting because parents of the past made poor choices. 

I also agree there is a disconnect generationally where our values have changed or become distorted as a society. I could dig out my psych and sociology books and still not get the answer.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

I experienced a very similar situation two years ago, only the other hunters were 100ft above me and 100 yards behind me on a knoll. The guy literally shot directly over my head and killed the first cow in a herd as it was beginning to leave the woods. His bullet literally passed me by 20ish yards.

I almost thought about calling the authorities because it seemed like such a dangerous decision for the other guy to shoot over me.

But I am not sure the authorities would have done anything.....


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

It just plain sucks when people ruin things. But if I may be so bold as a newcomer, may I offer you my perspective?

I live in one of the most rural and least populated parts of our state. I treasure my solitude. Heck I was social distancing before it was cool! When I hunt or fish I will do my best to find areas where people aren't. The general deer muzzy hunt is one example. It opens on a Wednesday and I gave up hunting that day long ago. I roll into camp late Thursday night after a five hour trip and spend most of Friday setting up. I hunt my spots where I rarely see people until Monday morning and then when the vast majority are gone back home, I have the mountain to myself til the hunt ends on Thursday. I've killed nine bucks over 24 inches this way. So if possible, adjust your timing. While any person you see may be a jackwagon, lower the odds by having fewer to deal with. And remember that there are still decent folks left. I was carefully driving up a four wheel trail a few years ago and ran into 5 guys loaded up with back packs on their way off the mountain. They were disgusted. They'd come from Missouri to hunt mule deer and thought the trail they were on was closed to ATVs. They had misread the map and figured they'd leave their own ATVs home and pack in and have a lot of room to hunt. They had arrived three days early to pack in and scout. Only to have 18 camps of people roll in on machines! I stopped to see if they needed water or anything as they had another 6 miles to go back to their van. Ended up shuttling them and the packs all back to the trailhead on my old Honda rancher. It has become the start of a lifelong friendship. I will be going back to Missouri to hunt turkeys and deer next year. We had never met before, but we are as close as brothers now. They even pulled a good limited entry buck tag and I helped 2 of them kill great bucks a few years ago near where I ranch and live. If I would of hung it up because I'd had trouble with others (And Man have I ever! Wait until somebody shoots three of your cattle on private land, or pours gear oil in a water trough so the deer cant water there and have to come onto pubic land where they have a blind!), I would of missed out on meeting and having a friendship with some of the best guys I've ever met! Lastly, Think about this- You may or may not be a religious person. But I don't go to church for the people! Most are selfish, self centered, clueless idiots, myself included. If I went to church because of the people, I'd of stopped going decades ago. I go because God blesses my life when I do. I go to church for Him. And I hunt for me! For the sunrises, the bugles, the gobbles, the snow, the frosty mornings, the pack outs, the time with family, the beauty, the refreshment of my soul, the campfire, the quakies and maples in all their glory, the close calls and ones that got away, the ones hanging on the wall, the time spent with the kids, the time spent with my 82 year old dad, the muddy trucks, the biscuits and gravy, they backstraps, the solitude and countless other things!!!! Pulling the trigger is the last action. Don't get me wrong- Those guys you met were total knuckleheads. But I'll be danged if I let others dictate my happiness. I wish ya well with you decision.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Taxidermist- I hear ya. My dad hung it up before I was born because he shot a deer and as my dad was walking up to a guy had started to gut it. My dad said he had shot the deer. The guy put his gun on the deer and said "This is my deer." My dad never bought another tag. He's hunted with me a few times, but never bought another tag. I'm trying to convince him to get an archery antelope or deer tag because they're so delicious. Not making any headway there. 

It's really the same phenomenon everywhere. Look at Wal Mart parking lot. Open parking spot, you stop and signal and some jackwagon takes the spot. Fishing (and ice fishing), you're on fish and someone comes and sits on your lap, asks what you're catching them on, and when dinner is. If it's kids, I don't mind too much. 

I've been fishing walleye and spot locked and had people dang near run me over trolling, pulled into next to me. I'm all for friendly conversation and such, but some people won't even talk or acknowledge. 

Fishing in a river and someone come and asks to fish the hole i"m in, or waits for me to leave. In my mind giving a half mile gap would be nice. Or go somewhere else. I've fished with people that i've taken and they come fish right on top of me when I start catching fish and they're not. 

I'm pretty picky about who I take with me goose hunting, because it's my pit and my rules. No sky busting ever. No chasing birds off. No shooting without a called shot by me or the blind boss. Stay in your lane. Don't change my decoys if I set them up. No shooting early and no shooting late. Don't invite your friend if you're the invitee. You know things like that. 

Camping- finding a spot isn't easy and people get grumpy. Remember that horrible episode up Blacksmith Fork with that family that was berated for parking in a spot over Memorial Day that you couldn't even reserve. It was a Hispanic family and what that guy said to them was horrible. Shouldn't ever be said by anyone to anyone. 

It's a "me first" mentality. There are societal norms that used to be in place that aren't as prevalent anymore. It's too bad, because it could help heal some societal wounds.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

cowboy said:


> Don't get me wrong- Those guys you met were total knuckleheads. But I'll be danged if I let others dictate my happiness. I wish ya well with you decision.


Great perspective. Shooting a guys cattle and motor oil in the watering trough is dirty pool. Game camera up to find trespassers?


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

cowboy said:


> I don't go to church for the people! Most are selfish, self centered, clueless idiots, myself included. If I went to church because of the people, I'd of stopped going decades ago. I go because God blesses my life when I do. I go to church for Him. And I hunt for me! For the sunrises, the bugles, the gobbles, the snow, the frosty mornings, the pack outs, the time with family, the beauty, the refreshment of my soul, the campfire, the quakies and maples in all their glory, the close calls and ones that got away, the ones hanging on the wall, the time spent with the kids, the time spent with my 82 year old dad, the muddy trucks, the biscuits and gravy, they backstraps, the solitude and countless other things!!!!


****, you should get this published!!!!


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

caddis8 said:


> Great perspective. Shooting a guys cattle and motor oil in the watering trough is dirty pool. Game camera up to find trespassers?


It's probably better I don't find them if ya know what I mean. But why let a few ruin my life? It used to be about 5% of sportsmen were idiots. That percentage has increased quite a bit. But there are still lots of decent human beings around too. They just rarely get any press.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

It’s why in large part I hate all rifle hunts at this point and try to avoid them.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

cowboy said:


> It's probably better I don't find them if ya know what I mean. But why let a few ruin my life? It used to be about 5% of sportsmen were idiots. That percentage has increased quite a bit. But there are still lots of decent human beings around too. They just rarely get any press.


You talked church. Lynn Robbins has a fantastic talk (don't care what denomination to which you belong called "Be 100% Responsible." Accountability and responsibility go hand in hand. Not that we need to go looking to hold people accountable, but that crap also needs to stop. It won't stop till someone pulls out the flag, calls it, and reports the responsible parties. 

But I get it. Feels like wasted effort. I've got a good friend out here that won't let people hunt because they shot his cows. I bet I could twist his arm, but I don't ask because I respect him. Many farmers out here don't let archery antelope hunters on their land because they let arrows fly at goats at stupid distances, and don't pick up the arrows. Broadheads aren't kind to tractor tires.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I’ve had people shoot right over my head, literally heard it whistling a few feet above me. People are idiots and asshol&s, whether you’re on the mountain or off. I can tell you is rather deal with assholes on the mountain than on street


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

caddis8 said:


> You talked church. Lynn Robbins has a fantastic talk (don't care what denomination to which you belong called "Be 100% Responsible." Accountability and responsibility go hand in hand. Not that we need to go looking to hold people accountable, but that crap also needs to stop. It won't stop till someone pulls out the flag, calls it, and reports the responsible parties.
> 
> But I get it. Feels like wasted effort. I've got a good friend out here that won't let people hunt because they shot his cows. I bet I could twist his arm, but I don't ask because I respect him. Many farmers out here don't let archery antelope hunters on their land because they let arrows fly at goats at stupid distances, and don't pick up the arrows. Broadheads aren't kind to tractor tires.


Trust me when I say I don't let people stomp on me much. When the old bull rider in me gets mad I have been known to twist a few ears off. Had some guys tear down a gate in a drunken stupor one day. Caught them red-handed coming out of our place. Three against one isn't the best odds and two were armed. But we had a small come to Jesus meeting and I was able to ascertain where they worked and got pictures and one guys name. After the sheriff interviewed them (and they had sobered up), they confessed to tearing down the gate and trespassing. I declined to press charges if they would meet me back at the ranch with a new gate and install it. They agreed and we put in two new post and hung a new metal gate to replace the one they destroyed. It was a good ending to a frustrating ordeal. I was amused when one of the guys who was big enough to fight bears with a stick asked me if I would remain calm when they came out to replace the gate. Even when he was drunk i'd made a fair impression.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Sorry that happened to you, Taxidermist. It just plain sucks to experience such BS. More than one of my hobbies has been ruined by an individual behaving so poorly (for me the individual was often high or drunk during the interaction). I try not to let affect me so much but after you've seen it so much it's hard to hold that line.

This is happening in most sports/hobbies on public land. I'm glad most people don't fall for the tendency to blame some other outgroup and realize it's not so easy to pinpoint "who" is at fault beyond the actual individuals doing it. There have always been selfish and slobbish people in every outdoor hobby; there are just more of us now so we are more likely to run into them.

I didn't make any friends in the monument forum by critiquing my own group of pro-monument stakeholders but I think Utah hunters could benefit from challenging the hunter recruitment strategies of the state. When you have a self-sustaining population of hunters, which Utah is a minority in having, then additional recruitment adds more pressure than is needed. That pressure doesn't just affect the wildlife and lottery process but also the field experience of hunters. Addressing that won't "solve", in totality, the experiences we are describing but it would likely play a role in the big picture. 

Besides that the outdoor industry has shown there are few things we can do besides work hard to educate and mentor our fellow hunters and step up to clean up other people's messes. It sucks that burden ultimately falls on the responsible hunters but there isn't much else that can be done without much heavier oversight, enforcement and an expansion of policy. I think most of us don't want a broad expansion of agency presence (for these interactions) if I'm reading the room correctly.


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## Stinky Boots (Jul 10, 2019)

wyoming2utah said:


> Like you, I would've been ticked...their actions were totally disrespectful and totally inconsiderate.
> 
> With that being said, I would like to offer a suggestion. Instead of giving up the sport, try moving your hunting activities to areas with far fewer people. Look for those areas where there may be fewer animals, probably fewer opportunities for success, but a lot less likelihood for negative interactions with other hunters. If the actions of others are what is making hunting not enjoyable, look to hunt away from well-traveled areas...


That is exactly what I have been doing for years, Lot of unused tags but the trade off is well worth it to me.


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## salmotrutta81 (Jun 24, 2008)

Taxidermist- I'm sorry to hear of that unfortunate event. I too, would be pissed. If people would just treat others the way they would want to be treated....things would be a lot better 😊


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## jewbacca (Jan 27, 2020)

backcountry said:


> Sorry that happened to you, Taxidermist. It just plain sucks to experience such BS. More than one of my hobbies has been ruined by an individual behaving so poorly (for me the individual was often high or drunk during the interaction). I try not to let affect me so much but after you've seen it so much it's hard to hold that line.
> 
> This is happening in most sports/hobbies on public land. I'm glad most people don't fall for the tendency to blame some other outgroup and realize it's not so easy to pinpoint "who" is at fault beyond the actual individuals doing it. There have always been selfish and slobbish people in every outdoor hobby; there are just more of us now so we are more likely to run into them.
> 
> ...


Very well said. I don't like the attitude of "oh it must be outsiders." I've lived in and out of Utah over the last couple decades, and there are aresholes everywhere including Utah. Just think about the reputation Utah has for compliance to ATV access laws. It's not outsiders that have earned us that reputation.

I honestly don't think any level of education by other hunters will change this behavior. What I would be in favor of is more naming and shaming. I would love to see hunters like the ones taxidermist met photographed and plastered widely around hunting forums. Here, rokslide, reddit, etc. They didn't do anything illegal (as far as I know), just incredibly immoral. Let the court of public opinion try them. You can almost guarantee somebody around the forums will recognize them.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Lots of great suggestions on ways to deal with the events of that day! I appreciate the words of encouragement and not to let go of what I, at one time, loved to do. 

I remember the sleepless Friday night before my 1st ditch chicken hunt, the same prior to my 1st deer and elk hunt. I began trapping at the age of 9 starting off with muskrat, ****, fox, and sometimes a skunk. Worked up to cats and ran over 250 traps throughout Utah, Nevada and Wyoming. 

Now, I just don't care if I miss an opener of any hunt. Maybe I should just buck it up, buy a tag for a Montana big game hunt with an outfitter and be catered to. I think it would be nice to have hot coffee and Busquets waiting for you when you roll out of bed and not be the one up doing it for the group. Have the horse saddled and ready to go. Ya, I think I could pay the 6K for a deer hunt in the Milk River for that kind of service.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Once you go on a great outfitted hunt you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. 

It was fantastic up on my grizzly hunt. When I got up the coffee was on the table, while I was eating breakfast the horses were being saddled. When we got back that night the wranglers took care of the horses while I was changing into dry clothes, then I walked into the dinner cabin and dinner was ready. I was waited on hand and foot, the only bad thing is that I didn't get my grizzly but did get a black bear.

Now if you want to see luxury and catering you need to book a African hunt.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> Now, I just don't care if I miss an opener of any hunt. Maybe I should just buck it up, buy a tag for a Montana big game hunt with an outfitter and be catered to. I think it would be nice to have hot coffee and Busquets waiting for you when you roll out of bed and not be the one up doing it for the group. Have the horse saddled and ready to go. Ya, I think I could pay the 6K for a deer hunt in the Milk River for that kind of service.


I hear ya. I don't get that excited for opener. Pheasant opener out here is an absolute circus. Colorado plates come up in droves, trespass everywhere, and act like jerks. 

I don't know a fully guided hunt would be that awesome, but I'd guess an antelope, muzz elk hunt, or a late cow hunt would give you the experience outside you're longing for without the crowds. My father in law isn't in good health and he misses the elk hunt so bad.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

That's a tough one, Taxidermist. Hopefully the bad taste will leave and you'll be applying for a tag come Feb. I often wonder when I will hang up the chase for tags and hunting.

I don't know who Cowboy is, but he seems like the kind of guy who'd be fun to fix fence with. He has made some great posts, so I can't hold his Sim-Angus comment against him.

Here is a thought I've come to lean on a bit over the past 5 or so years-- Our joy has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Packout said:


> That's a tough one, Taxidermist. Hopefully the bad taste will leave and you'll be applying for a tag come Feb. I often wonder when I will hang up the chase for tags and hunting.
> 
> I don't know who Cowboy is, but he seems like the kind of guy who'd be fun to fix fence with. He has made some great posts, so I can't hold his Sim-Angus comment against him.
> 
> Here is a thought I've come to lean on a bit over the past 5 or so years-- Our joy has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives.


Couldn’t agree more, that last bit is spot on


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Packout said:


> Here is a thought I've come to lean on a bit over the past 5 or so years-- Our joy has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives.


I really like that!


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Packout said:


> Here is a thought I've come to lean on a bit over the past 5 or so years-- Our joy has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives.


Now where have I heard that?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

caddis8 said:


> Now where have I heard that?



Now that you mention it..................................


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

taxidermist said:


> I decided to give it a little time before posting one of the most awful experiences I've had hunting to try and cool down. Here's what happened.
> 
> The 2021 hunting season was one I considered a BOOM when it came to tags this year. Drew a LE Pronghorn, (tag punched) GS ML, (not a shot) Antlerless Elk (took 6 points) and an over the counter spike Elk tag.
> 
> ...


I would have written down their license plate and filed a complaint for hunter harassment. It wouldn't have gone anywhere, but it would have been a thorn in their side for a bit.

Anytime you want to get away from the OTC debacle that UT can tend to be, put in for NM and give me a call if you draw. I'll go with you.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't think that anything would of come of a hunter harassment charge and I highly doubt that it would even warrant a investigation by the DWR. Public land with public animals, first come first shot. Nothing says that they had to wait until Taxidermist took his shot. Common curtsy says that they should of waited but that would be it. Sad to say.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Those hunters were not in the right at all. Total jackass move. But I’ll just through out a devils advocate case here. Sounds like it was elk close to the road (very rare find) and both had cow tags and pulled up on a herd of 25 cows, saw taxi and asked “are you gonna shoot or what?” Taxi responds “yes, just waiting for a spike to come out”. That spike may or not be there and if I’m one of these jackasses I’m having a real hard time with this situation holding a cow tag I waited years for. I definitely wouldn’t have just started blasting away like these jerks but I would have walked over to taxi and whispered “I know you want a spike and all but we have cow tags that we waited a god awful long time for and can’t wait forever here so we are going to shoot here in the next few seconds if your not, ok?” 

Just that little extra effort would have turned these morons into decent dudes? Again just playing devils advocate here. I would be hella pissed if I were you too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

High Desert Elk said:


> I would have written down their license plate and filed a complaint for hunter harassment. It wouldn't have gone anywhere, but it would have been a thorn in their side for a bit.
> 
> Anytime you want to get away from the OTC debacle that UT can tend to be, put in for NM and give me a call if you draw. I'll go with you.





Critter said:


> I don't think that anything would of come of a hunter harassment charge and I highly doubt that it would even warrant a investigation by the DWR. Public land with public animals, first come first shot. Nothing says that they had to wait until Taxidermist took his shot. Common curtsy says that they should of waited but that would be it. Sad to say.


Not to mention it might qualify as a misdemeanor to knowingly file an invalid complaint with a DWR officer with the intent of revenge. Hard to know for sure if it would qualify under the legal wording below but in general our legal system is designed for such complaints to be done in good faith of the law, not to be "a thorn in their side" of fellow citizens. Abuse of these government processes doesn't help anyone. Hopefully an officer would immediately dismiss it.



> *76-8-506. Providing false information to law enforcement officers, government agencies, or specified professionals.*
> A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if he:
> 
> (1)knowingly gives or causes to be given false information to any peace officer or any state or local government agency or personnel with a purpose of inducing the recipient of the information to believe that another has committed an offense;
> ...


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

This thread has me sick. Taxidermist.... dude... that story is infuriating.

If I see another hunter in the area I am headed to, I leave and find another spot. They were there first, even if its the spot I want to hunt, its not "mine" and they beat me to it fair and square.

Amplify that idea with eliminating someone's chances to be successful at filling a tag and you have a recipe for a dangerous confrontation. 

Those guys are lucky you didnt let the air out of their tires when they were out field dressing those cows....


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Critter said:


> I don't think that anything would of come of a hunter harassment charge and I highly doubt that it would even warrant a investigation by the DWR. Public land with public animals, first come first shot. Nothing says that they had to wait until Taxidermist took his shot. Common curtsy says that they should of waited but that would be it. Sad to say.


That's why I say nothing would come of it. But it would be worth it to receive a visit from a game warden just to get a dig in.

Careless discharge of a firearm could be an entirely different matter...


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> This thread has me sick. Taxidermist.... dude... that story is infuriating.
> 
> If I see another hunter in the area I am headed to, I leave and find another spot. They were there first, even if its the spot I want to hunt, its not "mine" and they beat me to it fair and square.


Where do you draw that line? This isn't a drainage "spot" they hiked into... they were on a road. Are you saying you never follow someone up a road because they are ahead of you?



> Amplify that idea with eliminating someone's chances to be successful at filling a tag and you have a recipe for a dangerous confrontation.
> 
> Those guys are lucky you didnt let the air out of their tires when they were out field dressing those cows....


And you are threatening damage to their vehicle? Over a couple of cows they legally shot? When Taxi himself admitted he was holding off his shot? I get that he wanted his son to get a spike... and I think its pretty douchie for the other guys to roll up and shoot without quickly talking it over. But how are they to know Taxi even had a cow tag when he said they were waiting for a spike? They had cow tags... and saw a couple guys obviously not shooting at cows. Who knows if there was even a spike in there.

SMH... even thinking about letting the air out of their tires or some other form of petty retribution.

-DallanC


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

DallanC said:


> Where do you draw that line? This isn't a drainage "spot" they hiked into... they were on a road. Are you saying you never follow someone up a road because they are ahead of you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you read far too much into that Dallan.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> I think you read far too much into that Dallan.


I think people are reading way too much into it the other way.

-DallanC


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2017)

Sorry for such a bad experience. I had a similar one on a deer hunt years ago. We had seen some good bucks along a tree line the night before the opener. We had set up into position the next morning and had some "hunters" jump out of their vehicle and pretty much run straight for the tree line just as it was light. Don't know if they ever killed anything but I wasn't in the mood to wait around and talk with them. I hope you don't let this ruin your desire to keep hunting, I've always liked reading your reports and it was good to meet ya last month when I picked up the dog kennel from ya.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Just got this text today and thought it fit this conversation:


_Murph is having a tough hunt. Night before they started hunting 4 atvs drove past their camp at 1130pm and rode around the public and stared shooting rifles trying to scare the elk into the private. 

Then the snow happened and a cattle rancher decided to get his cows and herded them up right near their camp. _

Kind of douchy if each of these incidents were intentional. One of my buddies has some pretty nasty hunting stories regarding outfitters up near Jackson in Wyoming. It seems the balance of douche bags to good folks is changing.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

APD said:


> _Then the snow happened and a cattle rancher decided to get his cows and herded them up right near their camp. _











Ranchers are a tricky situation. I’m guessing he had no choice but to move his cattle but it’s definitely be frustrating especially after having guys tear through at night.

common courtesy isn’t so common anymore. 

Thankfully I haven’t ever run across any ranchers that were intentionally screwing with people but maybe some do?

We got stuck on Boulder a few weeks ago by a cattle drive and unfortunately had no alternative route to get to where we were going and so we just strung up hammocks and waited it out.

I’d guess we waited a little over two hours before a guy came up and said we were good to move on through.

It was inconvenient but not much I could do but wait it out.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Bullets flying at night while camping is unnerving, to say the least. I've had it happen a few times and it's the worst feeling. That was just lame and dangerous of those campers.

I know several ranchers had big issues this week on the Cedar so who knows if it was intentional from the story you shared. They have a hell of time getting their cattle and sheep off the mountain during these early storms. 

Hearing these stories sucks.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

backcountry said:


> Bullets flying at night while camping is unnerving, to say the least. I've had it happen a few times and it's the worst feeling. That was just lame and dangerous of those campers.
> 
> I know several ranchers had big issues this week on the Cedar so who knows if it was intentional from the story you shared. They have a hell of time getting their cattle and sheep off the mountain during these early storms.
> 
> Hearing these stories sucks.


Which ranchers have had the big problems ??
I have been up there most of the time since last Friday. Have talked to several of them. 
I was at Jack’s corrals the other day and there was 7 or 8 of us just shooting the bull. 4 were major sheep guys. None of them talked about any big issues. 
They were very happy with the prices they got for lambs this year. One got $2.67 lb. 
I have never heard that kind of price. We were teasing him......EACH or LB. ??
I talked to a couple of cattle guys this afternoon, they were gathering cows. 
I know Wednesday and Thursday some were running hay up because of the snow.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I saw a county statement about trying to get roads plowed on the mountain after the Monday storm. Maybe I misinterpreted the message by the county?


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## flyfisher20 (Aug 5, 2011)

Had a similar experience on the muzzleloader deer hunt this year. My brother-in-law and I were sitting on a hillside maybe 75 yards below a road (not a nice road but more a rough 4 wheeler trail) watching a bowl. We got there before light and were the only ones there. About 30 minutes after light I finally stood up to wiggle my toes from being cold and above us about 50 yards and about 20 yards to the South were two hunters. The first guy clearly saw me and turned to his partner and pointed toward us. I thought nothing of it and figured they'd be on their way after that. A little while later two 2 points came out of the trees about 150 yards below us. At this point in my hunt we were trying to hold out for something a little bigger. After a few minutes a shot went whipping by us towards the deer. Ended up being a guy with his teenage son. The son shot 5 times and never landed a shot close to the deer. After the third shot we got up and went up the hill. Ended up talking with them as they took shots 4 and 5. If it weren't a young hunter trying to get a deer I probably would have made more of a scene of it. I clearly wasn't going to shoot the deer, but they didn't know that. And the fact they were basically shooting over us pissed me right off. I held back from saying anything confrontational and simply asked if they saw us down below. They said they saw us. I was mad so I simply wished them luck and we went on our way. Part of me hoped this young hunter could get his buck, but the other part of me wondered what this young hunter was being taught in this situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Taxi - sorry to hear about the experience. People have lost way too much respect for each other the last few years!


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## DreadedBowHunter (Sep 22, 2021)

1) My uncles all have big gun cabinets full and don’t hunt anymore. 🤦🏼‍♂️
2) I hunt where others aren’t. If I do see others I’ll use that to my advantage. 🤔
3) Too many glampers that look like NASCAR Pits with trailers like if John Madden is filling a tag. I’m old school using my skills from Boy Scouts(I like packing my frame, drinking from a canteen, setting up a one man tent, using a compass, foraging food to add to my meal, being resourceful) 🤗
4) Lots of jackasses that aren’t for packing out but holding their rifles 😆
5) Bow Hunt and it’s night and day different that rifle season. 😎
6) Common Sense is rare now. 🤫
7) Even if others are lame continue to be real. 🤓
8) Hunt with nature not against it. Pack out more than you packed in. When others will litter make your camp sparkle like glitter. 🤩
9) means No in German 😆
10) Keep a good attitude you owe it to yourself. 😁
11) I hope that you still have hope. 🙂
12) Have fun everyday because we are still alive. 🤠


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

We weren't on an oil road, we took the SxS in on a dirt road to a place that seems to be the spot Elk like to spend time in after a snowstorm. We were about 15 yards from the SxS glassing across a small draw where two canyons converge into the draw. It's been a sweet spot before for a cow and a couple spikes, but not every time. Lots of Oak in the bottom mixed with quakes and a few pines farther up from the little valley. 

We had been sitting there 20 minutes before light glassing through the trees trying to see some movement. As the elk began to come through the Oak, my Son said he thought there was a spike, but wasn't sure because of the brush playing tricks with his eyes. Only 5-7 elk in the group were in the open when these guys stopped. If the elk hadn't have been in the open, I'm sure they would have driven past not knowing anything. I told them I had a cow and spike tag so its not like they didn't know what we were waiting for.

This spot isn't like one you can drive to the animal and load it in the truck. From where we were sitting, it is exactly 480 yards to other side of the draw, and only 150 yards to where the draw runs out into the open area. I'm sure the two dudes spent half the day if not longer getting them out. 

I'm over it now, and it is public land and anyone can shoot at the critters even if they are the last to put eyes on them. I'm more upset that my Son didn't at least have a chance to see if he did see a spike in the group, and have a shot. It blows my mind of the disregard to "hunter etiquette". The new generation afield needs to be educated on this, some old farts may need it to.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

In my second (and much longer) post, I mentioned flat bill types first for a reason. I know of one on my wifes side of the family, and the guy has been taking a tailspin downward in life through a series of poor choices. I could probably write a lot more being the opinionated deep thinker that I am, but I'll summarize by saying:

_Too many people, too many outside influences. _

The Utah I moved to 10 years ago, grew to love, and kept quiet about, is almost gone. Almost.. not quite, but almost.

Heading out for another rifle hunt this AM because I feel obligated to with a multiseason tag. If I was serious in intent, id already have left the house. I'm going to hug my daugther, kiss the wife, kick the dog out into the run, and let the chickens out of the hen house first before I go, and be back tomorrow afternoon. If i was serious, I wouldn't be back until monday. I have to admit, my motivation is fairly low lately, but thats probably because I just spent 9 days solo hunting panguitch. (edit: Side note. Found a Jed. Smith tree carving from 1820 or 1829, some of you may know where it is, not hard to find.)

Took my daughter out yesterday. She had a fun time. Lots of hunters out, more then i'd have expected. More snow too, but it made more fun for my daughter. Just me and my daughter spotting deer and making tracks in the snow. Never took my rifle off my pack. Never even loaded it.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

It sure helps having a hobby that I can take my frustration out on when things go sideways. Throwing some steel in the forge and swinging a 3 pound hammer on the anvil helps. Not a real "functional blade", (7-1/2" blade is a little big for hunting purposes) but it was fun to make. Learning from mistakes every one I make though. I think 20 more and I'll be able to hammer out blades that are worthy of selling. 

What I started with, to a finished blade. Russian Olive Tree is the handle material.


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

Just throwing this out there in case some of y’all are wondering. Ranchers in Utah who run on public land have a deadline, set by either the USFS or the BLM, to have their cattle off the allotment each fall. Some have to leave by Oct 1, others Oct 15 and some I know get into Nov 15. Again all set by the federal land agency. So please do not assume somebody moving cattle is intentionally messing up your hunt. There is nothing more frustrating than have the herd of cattle going along nicely and having ATVs or cars and trucks come along and scatter them off the road or trail. Just like the difficulty hunting public land, ranching on it is a challenge as well. (Although once we had an Apache helicopter scatter cattle from heck to breakfast when it roared up over a mountain pass we had just got 300 head of cattle to and that was definitely more frustrating)
I know there are probably a handful of ranchers who might purposely move cattle through an area like was talked about by others. But the vast majority are just gathering and moving cattle prior to weaning and selling calves or lambs. In my case, my cousin and I both work full time jobs and take the week before the rifle deer hunt off to gather his cattle off of public land and put them onto private to ship calves home. It’s two full weeks earlier than they have to off public land but it’s the only time we can schedule the work to be done. We spend about nine days daylight to dark in a saddle gathering cattle off the allotment. It’s lots of work. None of it is done to harass or bother hunters. In fact, the main reason we do it prior to the deer hunt is so we don’t have to deal with problems caused by camps on water sources and such.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

cowboy said:


> Just throwing this out there in case some of y’all are wondering. Ranchers in Utah who run on public land have a deadline, set by either the USFS or the BLM, to have their cattle off the allotment each fall. Some have to leave by Oct 1, others Oct 15 and some I know get into Nov 15. Again all set by the federal land agency. So please do not assume somebody moving cattle is intentionally messing up your hunt. There is nothing more frustrating than have the herd of cattle going along nicely and having ATVs or cars and trucks come along and scatter them off the road or trail. Just like the difficulty hunting public land, ranching on it is a challenge as well. (Although once we had an Apache helicopter scatter cattle from heck to breakfast when it roared up over a mountain pass we had just got 300 head of cattle to and that was definitely more frustrating)
> I know there are probably a handful of ranchers who might purposely move cattle through an area like was talked about by others. But the vast majority are just gathering and moving cattle prior to weaning and selling calves or lambs. In my case, my cousin and I both work full time jobs and take the week before the rifle deer hunt off to gather his cattle off of public land and put them onto private to ship calves home. It’s two full weeks earlier than they have to off public land but it’s the only time we can schedule the work to be done. We spend about nine days daylight to dark in a saddle gathering cattle off the allotment. It’s lots of work. None of it is done to harass or bother hunters. In fact, the main reason we do it prior to the deer hunt is so we don’t have to deal with problems caused by camps on water sources and such.


What happens if you miss your end date? 

I called some folks last year about their cattle left up in the uintas. They came out and couldn't find them so I called them again and gave gps coordinates. They came out again and said they found them but they don't want to go. Those cattle stayed all winter. This shot is late December before we had snow at 7000'


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

APD said:


> What happens if you miss your end date?
> 
> I called some folks last year about their cattle left up in the uintas. They came out and couldn't find them so I called them again and gave gps coordinates. They came out again and said they found them but they don't want to go. Those cattle stayed all winter. This shot is late December before we had snow at 7000'
> View attachment 149780


The rancher can be fined or have their permit numbers cut or suspended where they can’t turn out the next year. It’s not a hard and fast rule. It depends on the land agency manager/ranger and the relationship they have with the rancher on the allotment. I cannot speak for the reason those cattle you saw were on the mountain so late. There are lots of winter range allotments too but the Unitas would be a summer permit I’d imagine.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> And you are threatening damage to their vehicle? Over a couple of cows they legally shot?
> -DallanC


Not necessarily. Were they in their vehicle? Were they standing on a graded and maintained surface?

Asking for the guy in the back of the room.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

utskidad said:


> I now feel the same about most activities that involve any people in any public places. The rules of the road we were taught for dealing with strangers are missing. Most people throughout history were far more skilled at dealing with strangers than today's generation.
> 
> There's another dynamic at work. There is a generational division taught in our public schools They've taught the young people to hate the old people because we supposedly caused every bad thing that ever happened. Meanwhile, the young people think they invented every good thing that's ever happened, including things like charity and equality and protecting the environment. (How many of them know that Nixon started the EPA?) I have three times this year heard young people (not mine) recounting stories to their friends about "old guys" yelling at them to slow down and they all told of the same reaction: "I told them to mind their own business."
> 
> ...


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

utskidad said:


> Passed through that 55 mph construction on the east belt. Got passed by three different vehicles going 80 mph in the 55 construction zone on Sunday morning.


That's an easy one. They were late for church...


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Packout said:


> Our joy has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives.


Well, sort of. Otherwise, there is no need for improvement. The key point is to not let your circumstances control, or govern, certain aspects of your life, whether those circumstances are windfall and wealth or struggling to make ends meet...


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

@taxidermist , I'm really sorry to hear that happened to you and your son. I've got two step boys (13&15) I'm trying to foster into hunting and a 4mo old girl I hope to have by my side someday. I can't imagine having that happen to my kids. I don't know if I could have contained myself. Don't give up. Just go where no one else wants to to avoid people. I do that even if it means I won't see anything haha


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

The tag grab by the dwr is a joke. Sorry you had to experience this. Utah is becoming an absolute zoo to hunt anymore.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Competing for a limited resource makes people temporarily lose their minds and forget the Golden Rule.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

MrShane said:


> Competing for a limited resource makes people temporarily lose their minds and forget the Golden Rule.


There are still some really good folks out in the wild that would drop everything to help someone out if ask. I cant focus on the bad experiences any longer, just the great ones. If you focus on the bad, that's all you'll ever have. 

I will say this.... The last 40+ years of hunting in Utah has been one hell-uv-a-ride.


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## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

taxidermist said:


> There are still some really good folks out in the wild that would drop everything to help someone out if ask. I cant focus on the bad experiences any longer, just the great ones. If you focus on the bad, that's all you'll ever have.
> 
> I will say this.... The last 40+ years of hunting in Utah has been one hell-uv-a-ride.


I agree Taxi. Hopefully the good folks will weed out the bad ones. 
keep making good memories.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

hazmat said:


> Utah is becoming an absolute zoo to hunt anymore.


You can thank scores and trophy status for that.


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

There has always been idiots. Always. Remember when Cane killed Able? More people = more idiots. In traffic you see them, in the grocery store, at your job, at any public event, in politics, family reunions, etc. and guess what? There are some **** fine human beings too! I try and choose to ignore the idiots and treasure my association with the fine people who inhabit the planet. Maybe I’m an optimist? And I know I am blessed to not be around big populations of folks. But if I decided to give up doing anything in my life based on the actions of other people, who’s action I have ZERO control over by the way, I’d never leave my place. And some days that wouldn’t even work well as I piss myself off now and then! What works for me is what I said above In the other post. When confronted with stupid people ya have a few options. Even when ya stand up and tell them off they hardly ever learn. It’s like wrestling with a pig- ya both get covered in pig crap and the pig loves it! Ignore them unless the situation dictates a stronger response. Don’t blame big antlers for making people act stupid, unless you also think guns kill people. It’s a choice to be ethical or not. It’s a choice to trespass or not. It’s a choice to be kind or not. It’s a choice to make every second of every day. I choose to enjoy life and to hell with the noise. 😁


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## TheOtherJeff (Oct 7, 2021)

cowboy said:


> Remember when Cane killed Able? More people = more idiots.


I'm on board with this. The world was a much better place when the population was 3. 😁


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

cowboy said:


> Don’t blame big antlers for making people act stupid, unless you also think guns kill people. It’s a choice to be ethical or not. It’s a choice to trespass or not. It’s a choice to be kind or not. It’s a choice to make every second of every day. I choose to enjoy life and to hell with the noise. 😁


Understand that to have big antlers, you have to manage for big antlers, which means you have fewer opportunities. In order to just go hunting, you have to do either antlerless, or spike/GS any bull. When you do this, you concentrate knuckleheads into specific areas at specific times rather than spread them out over the fall and winter.

Big antlers and guns are not an accurate comparison.

Savvy?


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

Oh I Savvy. But everyone isn’t a knucklehead. I’ve only been hunting in Utah for 38 years and I’ve met far more good guys than idiots. I was hunting when deer tags were over the counter and you could hunt all three seasons without being in dedicated program. There were some Idiot “hunters” then too. Instacrap and Facevomit have made it easy for some guys to brag on the stupid things they do, but they also allow families to connect and folks to share info in ways they couldn’t before. I still submit that chasing big antlers isn’t the problem. It’s the people and the choices they make. This post was started because idiots were shooting cow elk in a ethically questionable way. No horns on cows! 😁
I’ve drawn a general deer tag for 26 consecutive years. Plenty of opportunities if you do your homework and choose to hunt areas that aren’t as popular. It’s comes down to choices. Savvy? 😉


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

cowboy said:


> Oh I Savvy. But everyone isn’t a knucklehead. I’ve only been hunting in Utah for 38 years and I’ve met far more good guys than idiots. I was hunting when deer tags were over the counter and you could hunt all three seasons without being in dedicated program. There were some Idiot “hunters” then too. Instacrap and Facevomit have made it easy for some guys to brag on the stupid things they do, but they also allow families to connect and folks to share info in ways they couldn’t before. I still submit that chasing big antlers isn’t the problem. It’s the people and the choices they make. This post was started because idiots were shooting cow elk in a ethically questionable way. No horns on cows! 😁
> I’ve drawn a general deer tag for 26 consecutive years. Plenty of opportunities if you do your homework and choose to hunt areas that aren’t as popular. It’s comes down to choices. Savvy? 😉


Never said everyone was a knucklehead, just that the limited opportunity is a reason because things are managed for trophy class and this is what concentrates everyone, including the knuckleheads, into specific areas at specific times on antlerless/spike/any bull hunts.

Offer more bull tags throughout the year and the knucklehead crowd gets distributed and thinned out on the less "popular" antlerless/spike hunts. Actually, get rid of spike hunts as well. Talk about knuckleheads competing on a very limited resource in order to manage for trophy class with very limited tags.

Yeah, horns have a lot to do with it...


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

I’ll agree to to disagree. Have yourself a fine day


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## Tradguy (Jul 21, 2021)

cowboy said:


> It just plain sucks when people ruin things. But if I may be so bold as a newcomer, may I offer you my perspective?
> 
> I live in one of the most rural and least populated parts of our state. I treasure my solitude. Heck I was social distancing before it was cool! When I hunt or fish I will do my best to find areas where people aren't. The general deer muzzy hunt is one example. It opens on a Wednesday and I gave up hunting that day long ago. I roll into camp late Thursday night after a five hour trip and spend most of Friday setting up. I hunt my spots where I rarely see people until Monday morning and then when the vast majority are gone back home, I have the mountain to myself til the hunt ends on Thursday. I've killed nine bucks over 24 inches this way. So if possible, adjust your timing. While any person you see may be a jackwagon, lower the odds by having fewer to deal with. And remember that there are still decent folks left. I was carefully driving up a four wheel trail a few years ago and ran into 5 guys loaded up with back packs on their way off the mountain. They were disgusted. They'd come from Missouri to hunt mule deer and thought the trail they were on was closed to ATVs. They had misread the map and figured they'd leave their own ATVs home and pack in and have a lot of room to hunt. They had arrived three days early to pack in and scout. Only to have 18 camps of people roll in on machines! I stopped to see if they needed water or anything as they had another 6 miles to go back to their van. Ended up shuttling them and the packs all back to the trailhead on my old Honda rancher. It has become the start of a lifelong friendship. I will be going back to Missouri to hunt turkeys and deer next year. We had never met before, but we are as close as brothers now. They even pulled a good limited entry buck tag and I helped 2 of them kill great bucks a few years ago near where I ranch and live. If I would of hung it up because I'd had trouble with others (And Man have I ever! Wait until somebody shoots three of your cattle on private land, or pours gear oil in a water trough so the deer cant water there and have to come onto pubic land where they have a blind!), I would of missed out on meeting and having a friendship with some of the best guys I've ever met! Lastly, Think about this- You may or may not be a religious person. But I don't go to church for the people! Most are selfish, self centered, clueless idiots, myself included. If I went to church because of the people, I'd of stopped going decades ago. I go because God blesses my life when I do. I go to church for Him. And I hunt for me! For the sunrises, the bugles, the gobbles, the snow, the frosty mornings, the pack outs, the time with family, the beauty, the refreshment of my soul, the campfire, the quakies and maples in all their glory, the close calls and ones that got away, the ones hanging on the wall, the time spent with the kids, the time spent with my 82 year old dad, the muddy trucks, the biscuits and gravy, they backstraps, the solitude and countless other things!!!! Pulling the trigger is the last action. Don't get me wrong- Those guys you met were total knuckleheads. But I'll be danged if I let others dictate my happiness. I wish ya well with you decision.


Thanks for the uplifting talk brother. I have been trying to get perspective on this situation and basically hide myself as far away as possible to just avoid people in general. I hunt traditional archery and just love finding places of solitude.


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## ShedyGaGa (Oct 12, 2019)

This is an unfortunate event good sir. If I was in that situation, I would have taught those ignorant flat brimmers a lesson. I would have waited for them to settle down and start their hike over and then I would have shot up those two dead cows and watched them pack out the meat. I would have called the warden on them if they tried to “waste any.” It would have been well worth my time to make their day just as miserable as they made mine and my sons.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Tradguy said:


> Thanks for the uplifting talk brother. I have been trying to get perspective on this situation and basically hide myself as far away as possible to just avoid people in general. I hunt traditional archery and just love finding places of solitude.


I just started the whole trad thing myself. Cool to see another trad guy. We are pretty much unicorns around here lol


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## Rubythroat (Aug 23, 2021)

I was at the duck opener in a busy area a few years ago. Some guys disregarded our lights and came right over our spot about an hour after we had set up shop.. opener starts and I shoot my limit in about 45 mins - the guy across the bay sent his dog to snatch my ducks as I was out collecting. That dog would come and grab ducks out of my pile. I approached the guys about my missing ducks and they were less than amiable. I was very disappointed in their lack of sportsmanship. Long story short, I got to shoot 2 limits and take home 7 ducks. Haven't been out to Farmington Bay much since - too crowded!!


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> I just started the whole trad thing myself. Cool to see another trad guy. We are pretty much unicorns around here lol


Believe me when I say ten years ago, both of them would have been collecting their teeth off the ground. It's just not worth it to be a violent person in the woods now days. With the change of hunters attitudes (not all) one would possibly be fighting all day long. It's much easier to just walk away. 

Rubythroat.... Crowding is just going to get worse with the influx of the population growth in Utah. I have never seen so many trailers in the woods as I did this year on the Elk hunt. If you could squeeze a trailer in any open area, it was happening. Looked like an RV Park out there.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> I have never seen so many trailers in the woods as I did this year on the Elk hunt. If you could squeeze a trailer in any open area, it was happening. Looked like an RV Park out there.


I think everyone on my street sold their trailer this last year. Myself included. We changed up to a 10x14 canvas hot tent setup instead.

On the subject of trailers, this last weekend I had the entertainment of watching some people drag a shiney new trailer over a road that is notorious to anyone whos hunted the area long enough. The regulars would pull their trailers before a storm if they were already on the way out, because this road is slick as snot. I mean, more then most roads. I literally parked, and started shoving trail mix into my mouth like popcorn and enjoyed the show watching them struggle on the road. (I warned another guy in their group tbout that road the weekend prior, they didn't listen apparently)

When I left on sunday, partially because I knew there was a 70% chance of snow on monday, they were still there. They even made a chain link enclosure, looked like a big play pen for a kid, but I'll bet it was for a small dog. They obviously weren't moving anytime soon. I have to wonder if they are going to be able to pull those trailers before winter. If those trailers are still there in the spring, or overturned on the side of the road, I'm going to laugh my ass off.


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