# Running Utes go running again and reneg on contract



## Huge29

Ewts renegged from next season's basketball game citing danger to players; makes one wonder what is really going on. Could it be that they have to play in Provo next year? Makes you wonder...


----------



## Springville Shooter

I'm sorry, when looking at the BYU basketball team, the last thing that comes to my mind is intimidation or fear of injury. I'm an old fat guy and I'm confident I could hold my own against 90% of those wimpy guys. 

I couldn't care less what the real reason is for not playing BYU, maybe they are on to greener pastures? But don't disgrace yourself by claiming to be scared of the BYU squad. ---SS


----------



## HighNDry

This is a real dumb move by Utah. Coach Krisco is pretty much a coward. It's like he is saying BYU is misbehaving so they need a time out. Really? What a wimp. Lace 'em up and play ball. Bunch of whiny crybabies. 

Some of those kids that went to Utah went there because they want to play against BYU. Now, coach is saying come on boys, we don't like to play with them, lets take our ball and go home.

This rivalry has been going on for a long time. Who is coach Krisco (who doesn't understand the rivalry) one to end it? It's a cowards move. He just put a big L on his forehead. If I had a son choosing a team and a coach to play for, I would highly recommend they choose a coach, a school, a team that had a little backbone.

Who would have thought a single punch could knock out a whole team and coaching staff? Wait until the Utes have to play some teams with real strength--they going to cower into the corner and decide not to take the floor.

I watch a lot of college basketball and if coach Krisco thinks BYU is a rough team--well, he's a WIMP! I'd like to go back and watch some of his college and pro games. I don't remember him being a crybaby wimp, but maybe I better go back and take a look.

And for Chris Hill, the AD--he should have told coach that it is a foolish move and will make the U look like a bunch of pansies and that he was hired to turn boys into men and to beat BYU every year. Can we find no men on the campus?


----------



## GaryFish

With none of the in-state teams in the same conference, I'd LOVE to see a pre-season tournament with Utah, BYU, Utah State, and Weber. Hold it over Thanksgiving weekend to kick off the hoops season. Play it in the the Delta/Energy Solutions/Vivint Center in SLC - and go round robin on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Build it up as the Battle for the Behive, promote the thing. Free admission if you show your high school ID card. Make it fun. It is only in the last 2-3 years that Utah has been decent again. BYU have been the most stable programs, and Weber produced the best professional player to come out of Utah for decades. And Utah State has been consistently good and seems to be able to beat teams they probably shouldn't. I think a round robin thing would be a great success, and promote the really good college hoops in the state.


----------



## HighNDry

Well, now they say he is cancelling it because he sees it as a definite loss next year and it will hurt them strategically in the polls. The roughness of the game was just used as an excuse so everyone will say "yep, someone's going to get hurt and we don't want anyone to get hurt."

In one move Krisco has made Utah look very silly on a national level. Any tough players want to come play for the team that doesn't want tough, rough games. Come to WUSS university. I've been listening to the national media and they think Utah is a joke.

I really thought Krisco was doing okay, but he looks a lot like Jim Broylen. What next Krisco, grab the mike during hard play and stop the game and tell all the fans and players we are going home because it's just too rough.

Where are all the Ute's comments on this? I guess it's hard justify this one.

Hmmm. A Ute player kicks Haws in the groin last year and the Cougars still came to play at the Huntsman Center this year. 

Glad to be a Cougar fan. Good or bad, they are not a bunch of quitters. 

Shame on Chris and Larry--grow up!!. Maybe Utah should put more effort in their Chess team.

Maybe the Ute nation will ask to have the Ute name and logo taken from the university. Maybe we could have the Utah logo changed to a coward. How to best make that logo???

Someone suggested for the logo a group of cows running with the words: :"The Runnin' Cow Herds!"


----------



## Kwalk3

Coach Krystkowiak is actually a very good coach who I respect(ed) and admire(d).....until yesterday. 

I love the emphasis he places on defense and fundamentals. I think it's a much more stable and consistent strategy than hoping all your shooters are hitting their 3's on a nightly basis.

That being said, his justification is really just pretext in my opinion. Weak move on his part. I think there is reason for BYU to rein in all the extracurricular nonsense on the court and the football field. However, I don't think that is in not-the-real Coach K's purview, nor do I believe that is the sole reason he wants this cancelled.

Seems like a combination of an overreaction to a situation and tactically not having to play down in Provo next year without 3 of the best players he has.


----------



## HighNDry

So he calls out the character of BYU players and shows his character by being dishonest. Probably why so many people are sick of sports. What we need is for all the fans to just stop paying ticket prices, booster money, and making all these dishonest coaches and poor character players have to play for the same kind of money the rest of us make.


----------



## Billy Mumphrey

The biggest thing we learn about this is it sucks to be a BYU fan right now. I'm a Utah fan and I'd prefer they play the game. 

But you can't discount the fact that BYU is at Utah' mercy in this type of thing. Utah is playing for March and they don't get a lot of benefit from playing a WCC team every year. I feel bad for BYU fans because there isn't a whole lot they can do. 

Does Oklahoma play Tulsa every year? Does Stanford play San Jose St every year? I'm not saying Utah is at those levels yet, but they want to get there. In their mind this is a step that is going to be needed at some point.


----------



## HighNDry

So what you are saying Billy, is that the roles have reversed. BYU used to be the holier than thou, we should be playing better competition teams because we are better and now Utah and fans have that attitude. Interesting.


----------



## Billy Mumphrey

HighNDry,
The roles have definitely reversed. I think most Utah fans I talk to want to keep playing the game, but we get where Dr. Hill and Larry K are coming from. 

Unfortunately we're not really talking about "College Athletics" or "Student Athletes" anymore, it's very much a semi-pro league. There are a lot of dollars floating around. I think in Utah's eyes, Utah and SLC can't afford to support 2 major college programs. I think the long game they're playing here is by trying to create some distance between the 2 schools, over time, they'll get a larger chunk of the fan base. A lot of hard-core Y fans who will never change, but what are the demographics like ten years down the road? 

Just my opinion.


----------



## blackdog

I knew 29 would go running to his keyboard after this announcement. Not much else for BYU fans to be happy about in the BYU Utah rivalry.


----------



## Critter

I like it when someone says that the other team is playing dirty. As most of you parents know it is usually the one that retaliates that gets caught and not the one that caused the problem in the first place. I'm not saying that the Y has a bunch of angles playing for them in either football or basketball but I think that all the coaches need to take a good look around them and see just what is happening and not just blame it on the other team. 

As for the rivalry it needs to go on and the coaches should be able to control their players, if not they need to get out of the coaching business. Or does Utah think that since they joined the Pac 12 that they are above the Y?


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

HighNDry said:


> So what you are saying Billy, is that the roles have reversed. BYU used to be the holier than thou, we should be playing better competition teams because we are better and now Utah and fans have that attitude. Interesting.


No role reversal at all. BYU is still holier than thou and Utah is still better.


----------



## Catherder

HighNDry said:


> Where are all the Ute's comments on this? I guess it's hard justify this one.


Give us a chance, we Utefans are out working, you know, pumping gas, running a business, etc.

Here is my take FWIW.

First, I do have to admit that the timing of this decision is such that it does look like coach K is dodging a game in the Marriott center to an improved coug team and I can understand the reaction by cougarfans. Just don't pull a muscle in your faces exhibiting your righteous indignation. I do believe the U could have handled this better.

BUT

The problem with thuggish behavior at the Y is a real problem. One that the BYU administration and a great many cougarfans seem to ignore, or worse, rationalize and justify. If I hit someone in the same manner that Emery did in that game, in front of a law enforcement officer, I'd spend some time in jail. Yet cougarfans on message boards and elsewhere are quick to come up with vague previous transgressions by opponents and nonsense to justify or even lionize the action. It was the same with the "nut punch" incidents and the "Miami beach brawl" with the football team. Worse, Rose and BYU's administration decided to give Mr. Emery a one game slap on the wrist against an overmatched opponent, a sentence that almost all outside observers found shockingly light. *If Krystowiak was looking for an excuse to get out of the BYU game, Emery, Rose, and BYU handed it to him on a silver platter. 
*

Why is this a problem, even to cougarfans? Well first, it was the stimulus/excuse to cost you the rivalry game. It may cost you other games too. When I found out about the Emery incident, I was out of town. I followed the game live on a phone app but didn't know what happened. I woke the next morning to 3 ESPN commentators discussing whether Emery should be kicked off the team and then they went on (and on) about BYU's sports rap sheet. How many other schools will refuse to play the Zoobs that you won't hear about?

Next, like it or not, BYU players not only represent their university and cougarfans, but they also represent LDS people everywhere, even Utefans like myself. When these guys get out of line to this magnitude, it makes all Mormons look bad. It is worsened by cougarfan sycophants justifying the action. And in spite of local cougarfans sticking their head in the sand and claiming that it is they that are being picked on, the national criticism of BYU's rap sheet nationally is genuine and intense. I know it was where I was during the Emery punch. I have little doubt that these problems increase the difficulty of the core missions of the LDS church. If the issues aren't cleaned up, church leaders may just decide to scrap major BYU athletics altogether.

Whew, there is your reply HND.

Finally, now the U hopefully will play Utah State again. Make it happen !


----------



## Huge29

Kwalk3 said:


> Coach Krystkowiak is actually a very good coach who I respect(ed) and admire(d).....until yesterday.
> 
> I love the emphasis he places on defense and fundamentals. I think it's a much more stable and consistent strategy than hoping all your shooters are hitting their 3's on a nightly basis.


I agree 100%, I hate BYU's offense of nothing more than hoping you can drain a lot of 3's every night with no real offensive strategy.


----------



## Critter

It will be interesting on which division II team that Utah will schedule in the Y's place.


----------



## HighNDry

Catherder said:


> Give us a chance, we Utefans are out working, you know, pumping gas, running a business, etc.
> 
> Here is my take FWIW.
> 
> First, I do have to admit that the timing of this decision is such that it does look like coach K is dodging a game in the Marriott center to an improved coug team and I can understand the reaction by cougarfans. Just don't pull a muscle in your faces exhibiting your righteous indignation. I do believe the U could have handled this better.
> 
> BUT
> 
> The problem with thuggish behavior at the Y is a real problem. One that the BYU administration and a great many cougarfans seem to ignore, or worse, rationalize and justify. If I hit someone in the same manner that Emery did in that game, in front of a law enforcement officer, I'd spend some time in jail. Yet cougarfans on message boards and elsewhere are quick to come up with vague previous transgressions by opponents and nonsense to justify or even lionize the action. It was the same with the "nut punch" incidents and the "Miami beach brawl" with the football team. Worse, Rose and BYU's administration decided to give Mr. Emery a one game slap on the wrist against an overmatched opponent, a sentence that almost all outside observers found shockingly light. *If Krystowiak was looking for an excuse to get out of the BYU game, Emery, Rose, and BYU handed it to him on a silver platter.
> *
> 
> Why is this a problem, even to cougarfans? Well first, it was the stimulus/excuse to cost you the rivalry game. It may cost you other games too. When I found out about the Emery incident, I was out of town. I followed the game live on a phone app but didn't know what happened. I woke the next morning to 3 ESPN commentators discussing whether Emery should be kicked off the team and then they went on (and on) about BYU's sports rap sheet. How many other schools will refuse to play the Zoobs that you won't hear about?
> 
> Next, like it or not, BYU players not only represent their university and cougarfans, but they also represent LDS people everywhere, even Utefans like myself. When these guys get out of line to this magnitude, it makes all Mormons look bad. It is worsened by cougarfan sycophants justifying the action. And in spite of local cougarfans sticking their head in the sand and claiming that it is they that are being picked on, the national criticism of BYU's rap sheet nationally is genuine and intense. I know it was where I was during the Emery punch. I have little doubt that these problems increase the difficulty of the core missions of the LDS church. If the issues aren't cleaned up, church leaders may just decide to scrap major BYU athletics altogether.
> 
> Whew, there is your reply HND.
> 
> Finally, now the U hopefully will play Utah State again. Make it happen !


I agree with a lot of what you've posted but have a few nits.
Whether people admit it or not BYU is set up for finger pointing because of what they "try" to stand for with their connection to the LDS faith. There are people who just hate BYU because it's an LDS institution. They are under a microscope in a way. Any little mess-up and it is magnified. Imagine if all the premarital sex from players of other teams across the nation was broadcast all over the media. It would be non-stop broadcasting. But for most young college people it is a daily thing and because they don't espouse it as a "sin" it only becomes national news when a BYU player is involved.

I'm not condoning any of the punches and cheap shots and brawls that BYU has been in as I don't condone it with any team, but I've played enough ball to realize things happen to ALL teams at one point or another. If you watch the replay of the Emory punch, you see Krystkowiak having to be held back by people. What would have happened had he not been held back? Is his actions warranted and okay? Should he have to apologize for losing his cool? Do we hold the students behavior above that of the coaches? Watch a lot of the sideline antics of coach Krystkowiak compared to other coaches around the league. He displays some pretty mean and loud behaviors. Granted no punching yet because he is often times held back, but non the less his behavior is often times alarming. I think a little part of Krystkowiak doesn't want the game in Provo because he wonders if HE can keep his cool.

People are always wanting more punishment for these instances and maybe it should be made more public. For whatever reason BYU has decided to handle the punishments internally. Media wise we see a one game suspension for Emery and suspensions for football players involved in the brawl. But, I know that BYU has handed out other "punishments" that the media does not know about. This could be similar to what the courts of the land do such as required community service or service around the campus. We just don't know what these kids have to do because it is not advertised. They may even require the perpetrators to visit with social workers and psychologists to see if there is an anger problem. We the public are many times not satisfied unless it is a public hanging.

People make judgments all the time. Utah's football player makes comments about BYU's dirty play before the Vegas Bowl, but the only player ejected from the game for unsportsmanlike like conduct came from Utah's team. Little has been made mention of it. But I'm almost certain had it been a BYU player ejected the Utah players and media would have said. "See. We told you they were dirty."

Anyway, I ramble.


----------



## BigT

Funny! Not one of us knows the exact reasons for Utah cancelling the game next year. But we like to fill in the blanks. 

Here's my opinion on the matter...

I am a high school boys basketball coach. There is a certain team we've played the last few years that we have absolutely decided no more with these guys. The coaches, players, parents, etc are a bunch of whiny dirty players / parents, etc. Every year, we take flagrant elbows, punches, and this year the crowning event was one of the kids going in for a lay-up, being undercut and falling nearly 10-feet breaking his arm. Ironically, nothing is ever called against these guys. But if you've witnessed high school officiating, then you would believe this. So I don't really have a problem with Utah cancelling the game next year. Two of Utah's last three games with BYU, have had a BYU player ejected after a flagrant 2 foul. Both were egregious fouls. Both fouls occurred nearing the end of a blowout loss to Utah. Ironically, both players were from the same Utah County HS. 

There's also rumors that Utah doesn't want to play BYU because it's a "sure loss" next year. BYU returns a good team next year, but Krystko's style has hurt BYU from day 1. Yeah he's 3-2 against BYU since coming to Utah, but the first two games (year 1) Utah finished 6-25. I think BYU beat them by 15-20. The next year, Utah was sub-500 and had a late lead in the MC. Since then, Utah has controlled the series. Utah isn't scared to play the Lone Peak kids. If that were the case, they'd be begging to join the WCC and play in all the HS gyms that BYU already does. Utah plays teams every year with top 20 recruiting classes. This year for example.... Duke, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon St (Yeah, look it up), Oregon, etc. So their is no fear at playing the cougs. 

Coach K has done some tremendous things for Utah. He's nothing like Boylen, or even Majerus. He's a pretty clean guy that is protective of his players. In reference to as he put it "what got his undies in a wad" with the Emery hit wasn't the actual punch thrown, but rather Emery standing over the top of BT and telling him something very foul. As a coach, this would tick me off as well. You spend so much time with these kids, they become your own kids. And many of you would agree, that you would come unglued if this were to happen to your own kids. 

Lastly, no matter what anyone thinks, likes, knows or wants... Utah doesn't need BYU. BYU needs Utah. If you look at the way things are trending in major college basketball. (Yes, I am leaving BYU out of this!) The major college basketball programs are scheduling 2-3 tough road / neutral opponents against other "P5" programs and then playing the majority of their out of conference games at home. This is nothing new. Take Utah for example this year... Utah has played Texas Tech, Miami, Temple, Duke, and Wichita State this year all on Neutral floors. The rest of their games have been at home. Utah went 3-2 in that spread of games. Again, they don't have to play at the MC other than to do BYU a favor. 

I have mixed feelings on the matter personally. The coach side of me actually agrees with Krystkoviak because I think that Emery's punch on BT and taunting was about as foul as you can get in college sports or any sports for that matter. In the pro's, he'd of been suspended 5-10 games and fined 100K for the incident. But like BYUs football program, it was handled with a one-game suspension slap on the wrist against a patsy. The fan side of me is disappointed but thats about it. This isn't going to make me lose sleep at night as a fan. 

Overall, I think that the ultimate decision was made by Chris Hill. I am sure Coach K went to him following the game in all of his emotions. But this was Hills call. Coach K doesn't sign the $80,000 check. Coach K is just taking the heat for it.


----------



## GaryFish

Forget hurt feelings by a single coach or a hot-headed player being stupid. I'd support a Thanksgiving Weekend tournament in the Delta/EnergySolutions/Vivint - Center - With BYU, Utah, Utah State, and Weber. Battle of the Beehive. Round Robin over 3 days. 

BYU produced the most recent College Player of the Year of any Utah Schools. The best NBA talent from Utah in recent years came out of Weber. Utah is stronger now, and Utah State is consistently a solid team. So put the top 4 programs together for the fans. Celebrate ALL the great college basketball in Utah. Make it fun. And Utah can quit big-timing everyone else because they got lucky against Duke (Just think how annoying BYU fans were after they beat Nebraska - utefans are doing the same thing). Things run in cycles. As was noted, it wasn't that long ago that Utah hadn't beat BYU in basketball in like 8 years - enough that games on The Hill had more blue than red in the stands. Utah couldn't give away tickets to their home games. They tried. Even for free, Utah couldn't get fans out. I'm glad it has swung the other way now. Utah has a proud basketball tradition and it is more fun when the fans go to support good teams. 

All the more reason I'd LOVE to see a Battle for the Beehive early season thing. I'd even suggest that over time, there would be pretty good balance on who won the thing, and though I'm a BYU guy, I'd bet that USU and Weber would win it more often than either of the bigger programs would care to admit. And that would be absolutely great.

Anyone with any kind of historic context of college basketball in Utah, knows that things go up and down for each school. 1-2 top quality players in a program can make the difference between playing in March, or playing to empty seats. So for ANY team in the state to "big time" ANY other team in the state is just stupid and ignores reality. 

I guess reality is relative though. Like in my reality, I think Utah State has the most loyal, crazy, fun, and energetic basketball fans in the state - as evidenced with how they pack the arena for every home game. In my reality, BYU fans are incredibly loyal and put on a fun event for home games, and the home town student crowds are goofy, dorky, just plain silly, but seem to have a lot of fun at the games. Utah basketball fans are the most fickle, and will fill the arena when the team is good, and marginal teams will play to empty seats. Utah probably has a higher ceiling than the other schools with the conference affiliation. And Weber is an interesting piece of the puzzle to me, because they are different than any of the other schools - both in team and fan base. They have shown historically that in some years, they can play right along side the biggest of big time teams for a game or two. When they have an exciting player, they'll pack the arena. To me, Weber is more about just the pure love of the game than any of the other schools.


----------



## HighNDry

I hope Utah's coach heads to the vacant position at UNLV. I think he would be better suited coaching down a league where he wouldn't have to worry about all the stress and tough play.


----------



## Packfish

Just let Utah take a free shot at Emery and all will be OK


----------



## GaryFish

Neither team is innocent of losing temper and taking cheap shots. Both red and blue can provide lists of times their team has been wronged. I can list you guys that lost their playing careers to out of bounds and after the whistle hits from the boys in Red. And in this case, it was blue that took the classless cheap shot. The cheap shots, the trash talk, the classless behaviors - all go both ways. 

Now that I think about it, maybe it is good to take time off or just cancel the dang rivalry. Both sides say they don't need each other any more. So cut all ties. Divorce already. Maybe Krysco is right. Just stop playing each other. Life will go on for both teams.


----------



## Rspeters

GaryFish said:


> Now that I think about it, maybe it is good to take time off or just cancel the dang rivalry. Both sides say they don't need each other any more. So cut all ties. Divorce already. Maybe Krysco is right. Just stop playing each other. Life will go on for both teams.


I'm actually all for that. The teams seem to hate each other, the fans hate each other. The only group that seems to benefit from it is the media...so they have something to talk about.


----------



## HighNDry

Rspeters said:


> I'm actually all for that. The teams seem to hate each other, the fans hate each other. The only group that seems to benefit from it is the media...so they have something to talk about.


Actually, both teams have benefited from the other over the years. I really don't care if they play or not.

I do think coach has done the PAC12, his players and the fans at Utah a disservice. To me he teaching things that winning coaches never teach. But that's just my opinion. maybe in today's world it is okay to tuck tail, run, hide, and give up. Seems to be the popular culture.


----------



## Catherder

Rspeters said:


> I'm actually all for that. The teams seem to hate each other, the fans hate each other. The only group that seems to benefit from it is the media...so they have something to talk about.


Yep, this is true and the self serving media (especially sports talk radio) would have the most to lose by dropping the rivalry. This is what many Utefans have been saying for a while now. Regardless of who you root for, do any of you have as much rivalry fatigue as I do? It has been a nonstop media topic since early December. -O,-

I was driving home from a fishing trip this week and the radio was replaying Krystowiak's recent presser. In listening to it, it is apparent that K is not dropping the cougs because he thinks he will lose next year. However, he IS dropping them because of some deep seated anger/concern about what has transpired the last couple of years. It could be emery's punch, it could be how rose and the administration handled his discipline, it could be something that average fans have no idea about, and/or all of the above. But whatever it is, K isn't scared, he is pissed. Since he has the power to opt out he did so. Obviously, this is not a satisfactory answer for cougarfans, but then most cougarfans continue to feel that the BYU FB and BB programs don't have a sportsmanship issue and that Utefans, a phalanx of national pundits and a large percentage of the general sporting public that follows this are just picking on them..................

One final thing, I was genuinely disappointed that the Big 12 won that vote about the playoff. It now looks increasingly unlikely that the Y is going to get into a P5 conference. It does look like more years of independence and crappy home games. The football team hopefully will behave themselves in next years rivalry game or else Whit might do a Krystowiak. The U is seemingly the only p5 that will do a home and home with the cougs right now. It would be a loss that would really hurt the cougs now.


----------



## Huge29

Catherder said:


> he IS dropping them because of some deep seated anger/concern about what has transpired the last couple of years. It could be emery's punch, it could be how rose and the administration handled his discipline, it could be something that average fans have no idea about, and/or all of the above. But whatever it is, K isn't scared, he is pissed. Since he has the power to opt out he did so.


He clearly is very upset just as he was in the game. What Emery as a freshman 18-year old is unacceptable and inexcusable. What did the moron coach want BYU to do? They publicly apologized, he publicly apologized and was suspended. Coach apparently wanted them to personally call him and apologize apparently?? 
Then on the other hand you have a coach in his 50's presumably calling on an 18 year old yelling and screaming at him on the court...then he doesn't even bother calling the school to tell them that he is taking his ball and going home after they have to call the school to see if the rumors are true, ironically he apparently wanted the Y to call him and apologize. And they claim to be taking the high road of classy sportsmanship?? I am just amazed at how full of themselves they are. The same coach known for being a brawler as a player...
I have always been one to cheer for the U whenever they aren't playing the U, but I really laughed to myself when I saw they got worked over by nearly 20 at home tonight!! I have never been one to hate any other program and always have lots of fun back and forth with my fellow U fans, but this is just a joke and I don't see myself doing so going forward. Ironically enough this was supposed to calm the rivalry, but will have the opposite effect making yourself bigger than the game. I am really amazed at how spineless the administration has been on this, but as Boylen revealed old Hank Hill had been looking to end the rivalry years ago, but Old Hank doesn't recall ever saying that?? Good riddance!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

The funniest thing is the people that want to act like they don't care and say as much but their words paint an entirely different picture. Hilarious.


----------



## Springville Shooter

It's ok that the Utes are 1-3 versus unranked P12 schools......I mean, at least no one has gotten seriously injured and that's what's important. 

My observation is that the teams play has confirmed the insults of angry Coug fans. Utah looked like the Crimson maxi-pads last night at home.--------SS


----------



## GaryFish

Thing with Krysco on this - he is putting his money where his mouth is. He is personally paying the $80,000 fee to drop the game. To me, that is a whole lot of scratch to drop out of your own wallet to just whine. I'm true blue here, but clearly this is more than whining about a stupid cheap shot to Krysco. Props to him for putting up the cash himself for that decision. I don't agree with him on this one, but I respect what he is doing. 

Again, I think the rivalry games per se should just go away. But I think all the in-state teams benefit from playing each other. All the more reason for a round robin deal on a neutral court, and involve BYU, Utah,USU, and WSU. Do it Thanksgiving weekend, and feature the four teams serving together in a soup kitchen or rescue mission or something, like some of the football bowl games do. Show the players extending goodwill together, and competing on the court. It would do wonders to tell what great things can happen with college hoops, and that each school represent.


----------



## Packout

I grew up in a Utah house and was a diehard Ute until I couldn't take the religion bashing and hate. Now I lean more to the Y-- but I just love college athletics. So I've been on both sides-- even thinking the rivalry would be good to die-off. But the way Utah handled it is completely childlish-- imho. Yep, BYU has some cheap shots and guess what-- so has Utah. The most concerning thing to me was K telling everyone he is protecting himself from himself. 

Is he really wound up with so much hate toward 18-26 year olds that he worries what he will do? I thought he was one of the best coaches in the country until he showed that weakness. It was a classless act to cancel the game the way they did. Classless of him to not accept the apologies and tell everyone in the presser that it is on BYU. He paid the $80k himself-- so what. The man has many millions. He paid the money to cover his lack of character, knowing he lost it in the last game and out of fear of what he might do if there were another....

Not Ute hating for me, just confusion of how a man could act like that. He is surely not a man of Whit's character or Ronnie Mac or many of the solid men who coach/have coached at the U.


----------



## HighNDry

Coach Krystkowiak has put himself and his team in a precarious situation. Here is what I see:
1) In stating that they will not play BYU because someone is going to get hurt. He has sent a subliminal message to his own team not too get too physical. Subconsciously they do not want to be called dirty like that filthy Cougar team. This causes too much caution and kills team motivation and will.
2) The focus of the team is now on all the media hoopla and on BYU. How can they gain that focus back when the national media, local media, and fans are constantly talking about how dumb the coach is, how scared he is, how scared the team is, and how bad BYU is. Regardless if any of it is true, the fact is the focus is gone. They U calls BYU irrelevant, but with this coaches move, he has made them very relevant.
3) Coach Krystkowiak has all but admitted he has a problem without coming right out and saying it. I think he feels like he may blow a gasket next year at the Marriott Center. He has said it is as much about protecting himself from himself. I think that is what this is really about. He is out of control. His sideline antics partially bear this out. There is a lot of emotions and stress in sports and some of the best have had to take a break. Urban Myer did and so did the real coach K from Duke. The coaching profession has driven coaches to do things that they might not normally do. Look at Steve Sarkisian. Remember the old football coach Woody Hayes who ran onto the field and tackled an opposing player so he wouldn't score a touchdown? It happens. I would have more respect for Krysco if HE was the one who stepped away from the rivalry for a time.

Those are just my observations.

Sports is about teaching young men and women that you try your best, you never give up, and you win and lose with character. Neither side BYU or Utah are showing much character (myself included). I've been known to stir the pot, bash here and there, and troll. But in the end, if you can't control emotions YOU have to decide how YOU will deal with it. You do not punish everyone else for your own lack of self-control.

And if you apologize the best you know how, it is incumbent for each of us to accept that apology as best we can--even if it doesn't seem sincere or meet the expectations that we have.

There are a bunch of life lessons for each of us to learn here.


----------



## Springville Shooter

^^^^^^Point #1 illustrates exactly how the Utes performed last night against Oregon.-----SS


----------



## BigT

Coach Krystko is passionate but he's not out of control. He's no more out of control than any other coach around that is on the sidelines trying to win every game. This statement is more of just cougar fans being upset about the deal. 

And I agree, that the media attention has cost Utah some Pac12 games this year. Namely Oregon and Stanford thus far. 

As a Utah fan, I don't really like the idea of not playing BYU, but honestly don't lose sleep over it. Maybe they should play a game every year at the Jazz arena whatever they're calling it these days. I personally don't care if Utah plays Utah State, or Weber State. 

Oregon State coach Wayne Tinkle showed immediate action and credibility today when suspending one of his players for 4 games for tripping a referee. On top of the 4-game suspension, the player must adhere to certain guidelines or it's going to become longer. These are 4 conference games mind you. Not games against poor competition. This is exactly the point on what Coach Krystko is mad about with BYU. Absolutely no accountability when it comes to the players and their own sportsmanship. And sadly, it bleeds from football to basketball. There has been no accountability there. What Nick Emery did was far more serious than what Reid did with OSU. Yet, the school jumps in and suspends him 4-games almost immediately. He may still face further discipline from the conference. 

Some Utah fans are upset, all BYU fans are upset. But yet, the national media thinks it's a good idea considering who BYU has become in the last 18 months. 

Just some more thoughts.


----------



## Critter

I don't know if the national media thinks that it is a good idea or not. From what I have read it is about a 50/50 split.

Just after reading this I went over to the Yahoo pages and found this,,

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...-byu-series/0j7kzBl8uJZBBsqjsIKjiN/story.html

It doesn't sound like this guy from Boston is in favor of it.

And then for this to happen after they dropped the Y in football just looks a little funny.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

While Oregon St did act swiftly to discipline the player, keep in mind that the guy only averages about 4 points per game and he acted out against an official. 

Emery is one of the top players on BYU and there is no way that they would ever sit their 3rd leading scorer for 4 games just for sucker punching a Ute. Don't think for a second that many BYU players, fans and alumni did not take pride in the "tough" play of a star freshman.

Has it dawned on anybody that Coach K really made the move to prevent the Ute players from taking matters into their own hands next year? I really don't see what so many are up in arms about. Cancelling the game and taking a step back should not have just come from one guy. It should have come from both sides. This rivalry has gotten a bit out of control. Coach K is just the first to have seen enough and do something about it.


----------



## Packout

Someone claims to be a high school coach and doesn't recognize the difference between a player who was just touched in the face giving a slap-hit back and a player tripping a ref? True fan for sure.

Here is how Utah handles a freshman who hits a rival --
www.ksl.com/?sid=9548863 
Oh yes, one game...... And before you all say it is only the coach's decision, the AD has some say in it too.

Don't worry, the grand majority of fans don't lose sleep over this. They do scratch their heads though-- wondering how 100+ years of tradition can be thrown away by 2 fellows, without any consideration of how they could have been a positive influence and fixed the problems.


----------



## HighNDry

I would think taking out frustration on a referee would be more serious than taking it out on a player that has been setting picks and elbowing you during the game.

BYU has said after the football brawl that they do not make public all the sanctions they put on players involved in these actions. Maybe they should so all those that do not think they do anything will know that it goes beyond the visible sanctions. It wouldn't have mattered to the U program if Emery was suspended for 4 games, they wouldn't be satisfied unless he was suspended for the season. Even at that, some would still cry for something just short of a public hanging.

It's just a different world we live in today. Maybe good, maybe bad. I remember at age 16 getting into a fight with a friend. He kept teasing me while I was walking a girl home. He would get in my face and make fun of me and mock me. I warned him about 5 times to back off. The last warning I told him I would punch him. He didn't back off so I nailed him right in the nose. Blood went everywhere. He wandered off for a minute and then I felt a tap on my shoulder. I turned around and he busted me in the mouth splitting my upper lip, blood dripping from my mouth. We squared off at the corner and had an all out fist fight while all the other kids circled around and watched. We took turns busting each other in the face until we were both bruised and bleeding pretty bad. 

Somehow, we came to our senses and stopped. We actually hugged each other and apologized to each other. We walked home together with our arms around each others shoulders deciding on the excuses we could tell our parents for what happened to us. I can't remember what he was going to tell his parents, but I told mine that I had stepped out in front of a guy on a 10 speed bike.

At church on Sunday, I think everyone looked at us and knew what had happened. We both had bruises, a black eye, and ripped and swollen lips. Nothing was said to us, I'm sure rumors were flying around because people witnessed the fight. My parent never said a word about it and neither did his.

In today's world, there would probably be lawsuits, police action, and hate for years to come from a fight like that. Or maybe they would make us go to a different school or church. 

I'm glad for that fight. It hurt both physically and mentally. I learned from it. I didn't ever want to get in that type of situation again. I learned how to control my emotions better and when tense situations came up I learned how to diffuse them. I talked myself out of many a fight after that--sometimes belittling my manhood to make it happen.

Maybe Utah's coach has just learned how to diffuse a situation. I would have been a little more understanding if he had said he was fearful of injury for both teams and that both teams were in need of cooling down, but he has made it all about BYU and that just seems dishonest.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

100 years down the tubes may be a bit of an overstatement. As it stands it is one year that the game won't be played as far as I know. In the end it may do the rivalry some good to stand in the corner and take a time out.


----------



## Packout

Well, only World War II, K and Hill have disrupted the game over the past 100+ years. They threw it away and made it much harder to restore by the way they handled it.....


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Scheduling a game must be much tougher than I imagined. My bad.


----------



## Catherder

Packout said:


> Here is how Utah handles a freshman who hits a rival --
> www.ksl.com/?sid=9548863
> Oh yes, one game...... And before you all say it is only the coach's decision, the AD has some say in it too.


It should be noted that Marshall Henderson was not invited back the next season. I'm sure we will see Nick in blue next year.

Carry on.


----------



## bugchuker

Its the fans, those Mo's are nuts.


----------



## BigT

Packout said:


> Someone claims to be a high school coach and doesn't recognize the difference between a player who was just touched in the face giving a slap-hit back and a player tripping a ref? True fan for sure.
> .


I can only assume this is directed at me. These two incidents are similar in that both were intentional flagrant acts. I would hope you could agree with that. And yeah, I do understand the difference between these many different incidents on the floor. And I am not sure I agree with "just a touch in the face and a slap-hit back." Surely most saw the same thing very differently. Yeah I am a Utah fan. Have attended hundreds of basketball games at the HC. I was there when Erik Mika hit a Utah player and was ejected two years ago. I was there when Austin Ainge tried punching Andrew Bogut and tried to start a fight. I've seen just as many classless Y fans as I have Utah fans. I've seen quite a few Y fans three sheets to the wind as well at the HC, Rice-Eccles, LES, and the MC. I assume your a fan of BYU. Naturally we have differing opinions on the matter.

I played basketball competitively until I was 23 years old. It took me through college. Every game, I came out with scratches, bruises, sometimes bled, etc. That was part of the joy of playing in the post at 6'7" and weighing 240 pounds. But never in my life did I wind up and uppercut someone when they weren't looking or expecting it, and then stand over the top of them mouthing something foul like I'd accomplished something. This never even crossed my mind even in the most competitive and emotional moments of any game.

What I am saying about Wayne Tinkle is he did the right thing by coming out the next day and suspending a player for the amount of games he did, and gave him guidelines for coming back. For Dave Rose to only suspend Emery for the one game was a joke in my opinion. Coach K was right to suspend this series. If you only get one game for taking a shot at a rival, it's worth it! And as far as Marshal Henderson goes, the guy was an idiot and was booted from the team a few games later.

Personally I am fine with it all now. I would truthfully rather see the teams play and maybe even play at Vivent Smart Home Arena if that would help. I couldn't care less about playing Utah St, Weber St, etc.


----------



## Huge29

BigT said:


> What I am saying about Wayne Tinkle is he did the right thing by coming out the next day and suspending a player for the amount of games he did, and gave him guidelines for coming back. For Dave Rose to only suspend Emery for the one game was a joke in my opinion. .





> July 28, 2008 - The Utah Utes successfully recruit Hurst L.D. Bell High School senior Marshall Henderson, beating out programs like Notre Dame, Stanford and Gonzaga.
> 
> May 2009 - As a high school senior, Henderson and a friend are arrested in Tarrant County, Texas trying to use $800 of counterfeit money to buy marijuana in two separate exchanges.
> 
> January 30, 2010 - Henderson throws punch against BYU's Jackson Emery and is ejected from the game. The fracas begins around the 1:13 mark.
> 
> February 1, 2010 - Henderson is suspended one game for the punch.


 http://www.sbnation.com/college-bas...hall-henderson-timeline-indefinite-suspension
Was this also a joke? BTW he wasn't booted as two of you have tried to say, he transferred out along with most of the team did that year and the next as the program was such a joke. 
The hypocrisy here is pretty funny, isn't it?


----------



## BigT

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Emery is one of the top players on BYU and there is no way that they would ever sit their 3rd leading scorer for 4 games just for sucker punching a Ute. Don't think for a second that many BYU players, fans and alumni did not take pride in the "tough" play of a star freshman.


I don't agree with this logic. Doesn't matter if the kid is a walk-on, or the league MVP. If what a player does warrants a 3-4 game suspension, the persons status or position on the team shouldn't influence what that player is suspended for. If that were to happen on the street, he's arrested for assaulting another person and spends the night in jail. If that same thing happened in the NBA, he's suspended a minimum of probably 5 games and pays a $25,000 fine not to mention the monies lost not playing. I wouldn't underestimate the Oregon State kids value to the team. Yeah he only averages 3-4 points per game, but when you play in a league with plentiful length and height, his presence is invaluable. And I believe if he went into most game and shot 5-20 like Nick Emery does night in / night out, he'd probably average about the same amount of points.


----------



## Huge29

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Emery is one of the top players on BYU and there is no way that they would ever sit their 3rd leading scorer for 4 games just for sucker punching a Ute. Don't think for a second that many BYU players, fans and alumni did not take pride in the "tough" play of a star freshman.


Pretty ignorant statement! The guy is a total goof, hopefully this really was just a freshman moment and once he matures and likely serves a mission he can truly appreciate the severity of his crime as being completely unacceptable and how such a moronic act brings shame to the school, the church and millions of its members. 
On the other hand I am not thinking of a time in which a non BYU player was suspended more severely than what the league, conference, etc had handed down for an on court act? I can't think of any personally. I think I agree that he likely should have gotten more of a penalty, but that seems very much out of the norm. Renegging on a contract, however, seems to be very much outside of the generally accepted practices.


----------



## BigT

Huge29 said:


> http://www.sbnation.com/college-bas...hall-henderson-timeline-indefinite-suspension
> Was this also a joke? BTW he wasn't booted as two of you have tried to say, he transferred out along with most of the team did that year and the next as the program was such a joke.
> The hypocrisy here is pretty funny, isn't it?


I am pretty sure that Boylen gave him the ultimatum but that article provides more clear details. I am just glad the Boylen era ended. I don't believe that Majerus or Krystko would have even given this kid the time of day in recruitment. Notre Dame and Gonzaga were lucky not to land him.


----------



## BigT

Huge29 said:


> Pretty ignorant statement! The guy is a total goof, hopefully this really was just a freshman moment and once he matures and likely serves a mission he can truly appreciate the severity of his crime as being completely unacceptable and how such a moronic act brings shame to the school, the church and millions of its members.
> On the other hand I am not thinking of a time in which a non BYU player was suspended more severely than what the league, conference, etc had handed down for an on court act? I can't think of any personally. I think I agree that he likely should have gotten more of a penalty, but that seems very much out of the norm. Renegging on a contract, however, seems to be very much outside of the generally accepted practices.


I agree with you there. Emery is a returned missionary if you want to give him credit. He was out for a few months, got sick and returned early. I don't like the way Utah pulled out of the contract. I am told Larry paid the fee from his own money.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

stirring the pot around here is like shooting fish out of a barrel. Drama Queens. Take off your skirts and step away from the computer.


----------



## BigT

Mr Muleskinner said:


> stirring the pot around here is like shooting fish out of a barrel. Drama Queens. Take off your skirts and step away from the computer.


Stirring the pot? Drama queens? Nah... Just speaking my opinion. We can agree to disagree. It's been over long enough now that I should say no more on the topic.


----------



## GaryFish

How is this even a thing any more.


----------

