# 6.5 creedmoor for elk?



## #1DEER 1-I

My dad should finally draw his big bill tag he’s been waiting 25 years to draw next year, so naturally the planning begins now.

I have a new 6.5 creedmoor that I’ve used for deer hunting the past couple years. I haven’t ever tried it on elk, but would like to use the best gun possible once that hunt rolls around. My dad had one rifle, an old 30-06. He likes my new 6.5 creedmoor and the recoil it exhibits. My question mainly is, will that gun be enough for a big bull? Or would it be wise to use a bigger caliber? I also have a 7MM but it kicks to a point I hate shooting the thing, and know my dad will hate the recoil as well. So basically do you think the 6.5 is a good enough caliber to use and quickly bring down a big bull? Or what caliber would you recommend that has some less recoil? I’d be willing to buy another gun between here and there. My dad is just getting a bit older and I know struggles some with the rifles that beat you up a bit.


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## DallanC

Can it kill a big bull? Yes... should you chance your "once in a lifetime LE Elk Tag" on a 6.5CM? Hellz no. 

I wouldnt recommend anything under a 280 for big bulls using 160gr bullets. 7MM08 is fine for cows and spikes using 140gr bullets... but IMO, needs a bit more "ooomph" to push 160gr bullets for big bulls. 280 has the power, bullet selection and has mild recoil. Next step up would be 30-06, then the 7RemMag, 300WM, 338 etc.

6.8 Western impresses me ALOT. I already have caliber coverage around that area of the spectrum and its not worth all the cost just to get a SA cartridge (I have a 270 and a 7STW). 6.8 Western recoil apparently is similar to a 7RemMag but some amazing ballistics and downrange energy.

-DallanC


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## bthewilde

A can of worms has been opened here, it's going to be a great thread! I haven't been successful with my 6.5 yet, but I do have a friend who hunts exclusively with a 6.5 that has tags out on Elk yearly. I keep trying to go with him, but no dice. I think you would be better off with grabbing something bigger and throwing a big ol' recoil pad on it. I am planning on buying a .308 and 300 win mag all before the next season kicks off.


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## wyogoob

My grandson shot a big-bodied bull with his 6.5 Creedmoor last year. He was using 143 gr something or other bullets....uh...4 CAPITAL letters....ELDX maybe. Anyway, that's the key; make sure your bullets have 4 CAPITAL letters if you're using the little 6.5 Creedmoor on elk.


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## NHS

143 gr ELKX??


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## wyogoob

NHS said:


> 143 gr ELKX??


Boy, that's gotta be a killer there!


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## PBH

I just had this conversation with my father-in-law. He was trying to convince me to get rid of my 7mm (which I didn't want when he offered it to me, so he sold it to my wife to give to me for my birthday as a surprise.  ), and purchase a 6.5 Creedmore. He shoots a 6.5x284. I asked him if he would be confident hunting buffalo with his 6.5x284. His answer surprised me -- Not. He said "Hell yes! the ballistics on these things are incredible".

needless to say, I'm not convinced. I'm keeping my 7mm specifically for bison, and I'll use it for elk if my daughter needs my 270. I still might buy my daughter a 6.5 creedmore.




The real question with all of this is: will we be able to buy ammo to shoot these guns??


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## jewbacca

Inside 300 yards the 6.5 (or .308, nearly identical ballistics) is devastating to big game. I would have no hesitation shooting a trophy bull with that caliber in that range. Beyond that I'd want something with a flatter trajectory.


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## Hill Hunter

If recoil is the issue and you are willing to get a new rifle for the hunt, have you considered getting a rifle with a muzzle brake (and some hearing protection)? Or get one of your current rifles threaded for a brake?

6.5 Creedmoor has great flight ballistics, but there still is only so much energy that relatively small bullet can deliver to the animal. It will work when everything goes right, but it would not be my choice for a bull elk.


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## caddis8

Hey 1 Eye. Good question. There'll be a lot of stuff said. Here's my .02. I drew a big bull permit last year. I had options of shooters. I had my .270 from my late brother (Remington 7400), my 6.5 Creedmore, and my FILs .338 Lapua. I generally am recoil averse (sissy). I don't love to shoot guns that knock my 3 fillings out. I don't want to be afraid of a gun. I have killed a cow elk with the .270 (several), 6.5 (1 giant cow), and my FIL has killed a couple cows with the .338. 

The only gun that has had an entry and exit wound was .338 (150 yards). A calf with the .270 was a neck shot. Another cow with the .270 blew up the heart and the slug was against the skin in the opposite shoulder. No tracking needed. The 6.5 did massive internal damage, but not much of an exit wound, a couple drops of blood is all that came out, but a whole cavity full of blood. 

Maybe rather than get a new gun, he could get a suppressor for the .30-06? In addition to noise reduction, it virtually eliminates recoil. Now, I don't know state law about suppressors. In Nebraska they're legal to hunt with. I was hesitant to use the .338 Lapua with it's recoil, but the can made it sound like a loud nail gun, and a little felt recoil. I shot my bull with the .338- because I wanted to make sure I could have a blood trail if needed hunting elk in the corn fields of Nebraska. I've shot several elk in Utah, and all but one fell down immediately. The other (shot with 6.5) went 20 yards and tipped over in front of me. 

The ballistics with the 6.5 are impressive. The penetrating power is impressive and the ballistic coefficient- but the foot pounds per square inch of shock is not as impressive as other guns- the whamp factor. At distance, I'd be a littler nervous shooting an elk with a 6.5 because of downrange energy loss with a smaller bullet. If you aim and hit lungs, I think you'd be fine. 

My BIL has shot a spike with his 6.5 and it was a very good double lung and the elk expired quickly. 

I may invest in a couple of suppressors and larger guns, get the best of both worlds.


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## wyogoob

It would be fine. Use 140 grain or larger bullets


#1DEER 1-I said:


> My dad should finally draw his big bill tag he’s been waiting 25 years to draw next year, so naturally the planning begins now.
> 
> I have a new 6.5 creedmoor that I’ve used for deer hunting the past couple years. I haven’t ever tried it on elk, but would like to use the best gun possible once that hunt rolls around. My dad had one rifle, an old 30-06. He likes my new 6.5 creedmoor and the recoil it exhibits. My question mainly is, will that gun be enough for a big bull? Or would it be wise to use a bigger caliber? I also have a 7MM but it kicks to a point I hate shooting the thing, and know my dad will hate the recoil as well. So basically do you think the 6.5 is a good enough caliber to use and quickly bring down a big bull? Or what caliber would you recommend that has some less recoil? I’d be willing to buy another gun between here and there. My dad is just getting a bit older and I know struggles some with the rifles that beat you up a bit.


The 6.5 Creed would be fine for your dad. Use 140 grain bullets or larger.


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## Brookie

All depends on shot placement. This year my brother missed his spot and hit front shoulder with 6.5 and it took a while to find the cow. It took 2 more shots to finish her off. All three shots didn't get past the bone into the vitals. Behind the shoulder shot I'm sure would of been fine. But this could be said with all guns, shot placement


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## KRH

Sub 300 yards you’re fine with the 6.5. Obviously this assumes good shot placement. Use 140s


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## DIRTYS6X6

My wife shot her moose with a 6.5 this year. No problem. Its all shot placement. If the 6.5 is going to be your choice start looking for Norma 6.5 156gr.


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## Critter

There is no doubt that the 6.5 will kill a elk, but if you plan on shooting a elk with one are you willing to wait for that bull of a lifetime to wander away when that perfect broadside shot doesn't present itself. Or are you also willing to do a lot of tracking when that broadside shot is off a bit and hits that huge front shoulder and just blows up? 

If he has a 06, I say that is the rifle that he should use. 


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## CPAjeff

My advice to him is to shoot the gun he is most comfortable with. Sure, elk are tough, but they aren't invincible like most people want to believe.


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## Ray

I’ve heard it both ways, it does wonders on elk or it’s a horror story.
I know one guy that had to shoot his elk 4 times, said he didn’t get proper expansion so he just got pencil holes. 

I know Another dude that dropped one first shot.

the truth is somewhere in the middle, so imma shoot a 300 win mag 😎


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## #1DEER 1-I

I have a 7mm Remington Mag Model 700. What suppressor or muzzle break would you recommend if I were to go that route? The gun just kicks so **** much, and as has been mentioned a few times, sometimes a lesser gun you’re more comfortable and accurate with is better than a gun you hate shooting and aren’t as accurate with.


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## High Desert Elk

wyogoob said:


> My grandson shot a big-bodied bull with his 6.5 Creedmoor last year. He was using 143 gr something or other bullets....uh...4 CAPITAL letters....ELDX maybe. Anyway, that's the key; make sure your bullets have 4 CAPITAL letters if you're using the little 6.5 Creedmoor on elk.


Actually, you can get away with not having 4 CAPITAL letters if your hat has a flat brim, lids I think they call them.


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## DallanC

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I have a 7mm Remington Mag Model 700. What suppressor or muzzle break would you recommend if I were to go that route? The gun just kicks so **** much, and as has been mentioned a few times, sometimes a lesser gun you’re more comfortable and accurate with is better than a gun you hate shooting and aren’t as accurate with.


Interesting. I shoot a 7STW at elk, its the big brother to the 7Mag... and I dont find the recoil that bad at all. I push 160gr Accubonds at 3200fps so its a really stout load. My son has been shooting it too since he was 14, he likes it. My wifes 30-06 is BRUTAL, I loathe shooting that gun. The only gun I've ever shot that was worse was the Accura muzzleloader I bought earlier this year on that clearance sale... that gun was incredibly bad due to the pistol grip stock config. It forced the gun to rotate up and back every time. I haven't been scope bit in decades... and that **** thing got me 6 times off the bench the first time I went to shoot it. I couldn't wait to sell it.

Anyway, the difference in felt recoil is due to the stock of course and overall weight. Some guns just dont mitigate it well, others make it feel greatly reduced. My wife's 30-06 is a Remington M700, my 7STW is a Winchester M70. I absolutely love the Model 70's look, fit and finish (with the pre '64 extractor). The STW is a bit heavier than the 3006, that helps a ton.

But... like most people already know, when in the field shooting at that big broadside critter... you really never notice the recoil.

-DallanC


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## DallanC

High Desert Elk said:


> Actually, you can get away with not having 4 CAPITAL letters if your hat has a flat brim, lids I think they call them.


Well kids today have shorter attention spans... so they tend to loose interest after the 3rd letter. 4 Capital letter bullets are good for the older "get off my lawn" types 

Soon, as the millennials start having kids that hunt, the best bullets will only have 2 or 1 capital letters.

-DallanC


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## caddis8

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I have a 7mm Remington Mag Model 700. What suppressor or muzzle break would you recommend if I were to go that route? The gun just kicks so **** much, and as has been mentioned a few times, sometimes a lesser gun you’re more comfortable and accurate with is better than a gun you hate shooting and aren’t as accurate with.


FIL has Big Bore Harvester from Silencer CO. My BIL (a way bigger gun nut than me) said Dead Air SandmanS or Sandman L, Nomad. 

I gotta tell ya, A guy could get used that no noise and no recoil thing.


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## bfrankl

This is a great thread chocked full of information. Truthfully, I don't know a lot about the 6.5. I hunt deer with a 270 and haven't hunted elk, but have wondered if the 270 would be enough if I did. Based on the responses I'm seeing, it appears these smaller calibers can get the job done, although it's not ideal. If it were me, I'd trust those with experience here.


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## Irish Lad

Grandson shot this cow elk last year at over 600 yards. Heart shot, massive exit hole. 6.5 CM Horandy 140 gr HPBT. A friend of mine guides for elk, he says he's more worried about how people shoot, than what they shoot. If I ever draw, I'm with Dallen and gonna use my 280.


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## colorcountrygunner

Can he grow a good man bun? He's gonna need it to get the full effect of the creedmoor. Craft beer is also needed. But maybe one of 3 arabians PBRs would suffice.


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## Critter

Have you thought of a better recoil pad for his 06 or the 7mm?


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## 3arabians

colorcountrygunner said:


> Can he grow a good man bun? He's gonna need it to get the full effect of the creedmoor. Craft beer is also needed. But maybe one of 3 arabians PBRs would suffice.


No, PBRs are for win mag guys shooting corelokts. You know this! SMH. 


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## Frank M

To OP - 

I kill elk using a razor blade on the end of a stick, LOL (archery).

Shoot a good bullet, and your 6.5 CM will kill elephants. So your question should be, which bullet?


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## Lone_Hunter

My understanding is results can very depending on range and shot placement. As others have already said, 6.5 creedmore looses steam after 300 yards. The question then becomes, how often do you shoot at, or past 300 yards? In the past I have thought about getting a 6.5 creedmore rifle, but am leaning on "no" currently.

Reason being is I zero my .308 at 300 yards. Inside that distance, i shoot approximately 5" high at 160 yards. With that "battle zero" ive little need for BDC's or Mil Dots. I just hold to compensate for the arc, depending on range to target. Even if I'm off on my holdover, I'll still hit center of mass (tactically speaking), Outside 300 yards, 308 starts to drop like a rock, but I have no intention of shooting past that anyway. I've *rarely *encountered a situation where I conceivably would. (Famous last words.  ) I'm already stocked up on 308, and today's ammo prices and availability aren't going to change anytime soon. 6.5 creedmore is both hard to get, and expensive.

Where 6.5 creedmore shines, is long range target shooting due to its high BC and flat trajectory. If your not into long range shooting, you won't see as much of the benefit of the cartridge as compared to someone who is. On a side note, how does 6.5 creedmore compare to the ole .270 winchester? Just a thought.

YMMV.


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## colorcountrygunner

3arabians said:


> No, PBRs are for win mag guys shooting corelokts. You know this! SMH.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It depends on the intent. If your drink PBR "ironically" then it is a creedmoor beverage.


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## Lone_Hunter

I never left the 90s. "Less filling, tastes great". Miller lite the whole way.
PBR is for hipsters.


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## 3arabians

colorcountrygunner said:


> It depends on the intent. If your drink PBR "ironically" then it is a creedmoor beverage.


Hmm.. interesting. I yield. 


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## 3arabians

Lone_Hunter said:


> I never left the 90s. "Less filling, tastes great". Miller lite the whole way.
> PBR is for hipsters.


?








Clint Eastwood disagrees 


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## taxidermist

Shot placement is all it takes. I've seen my dad take big bulls with a 22-250. One shot in the nugget and they drop.


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## Lone_Hunter

3arabians said:


> ?
> View attachment 150173
> 
> Clint Eastwood disagrees
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Funny thing is, I've been acused of being the "get off my lawn type". But back on topic (sort of), I'll never understand how that yeast piss seems to have gained in popularity. It seriously was the swill of hipsters. Times have changed. Kinda like general season elk apparently.  (edit: nevermind, wrong thread, i've crossed the streams)


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## 3arabians

Lone_Hunter said:


> Funny thing is, I've been acused of being the "get off my lawn type". But back on topic (sort of), I'll never understand how that yeast piss seems to have gained in popularity. It seriously was the swill of hipsters. Times have changed. Kinda like general season elk apparently.  (edit: nevermind, wrong thread, i've crossed the streams)


I agree with you about PBR. CCG caught me in a vulnerable moment after I packed out an elk a few years ago and I posted a pick with a PBR in my hand when I got back to the the truck. We’ve been running with the inside joke ever since. My hipster buddy left a cooler full of PBR there and I’m a firm believer that any beer is better than no beer at all after a packout so I was more than happy about the raid. 

You’re welcome at my campfire anytime. Sorry if the clint pic offended you. 

As for the topic, a 6.5 creedmoor will work just pick your shot placements with care and it’s bull down. 


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## ridgetop

I think I'm going to trade in my very heavy 7mm rem. mag. for a light weight 6.5 PRC. The 6.5 PRC has about the same ballistics as the 7mm but has a lot less recoil.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> Have you thought of a better recoil pad for his 06 or the 7mm?


What recoil pad? I’ve tried plenty of recoil pads on plenty of guns and noticed very little difference.


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## Critter

Have you tried Limbsaver or a Pachmayr?

I'm not that sensitive to recoil but I do have Pachmayr grips on a couple of hard recoiling pistols and it does cut down on felt recoil.

There are some other things that can be done to tame recoil. Some involve drilling some holes in the stock. I'll have to look on another forum that I am on and see what some use on. 40 calibers+ when they are after dangerous game in Africa 

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## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> Have you tried Limbsaver or a Pachmayr?
> 
> I'm not that sensitive to recoil but I do have Pachmayr grips on a couple of hard recoiling pistols and it does cut down on felt recoil.
> 
> There are some other things that can be done to tame recoil. Some involve drilling some holes in the stock. I'll have to look on another forum that I am on and see what some use on. 40 calibers+ when they are after dangerous game in Africa
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


I've tried Limbsaver on a couple guns, I just don't notice much of a difference.


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## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> ...............................................................................................................................
> 
> But... like most people already know, when in the field shooting at that big broadside critter... you really never notice the recoil.
> 
> -DallanC


With the exception of a 460 Smith n Wesson Magnum revolver.

uh...top of the page.


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## wyogoob

Frank M said:


> To OP -
> 
> I kill elk using a razor blade on the end of a stick, LOL (archery).
> 
> Shoot a good bullet, and your 6.5 CM will kill elephants. So your question should be, which bullet?


That's right. The bullet with at least 4 CAPITAL letters.


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## AF CYN

I know guys who kill them with sharp sticks and 50 ft/lbs of KE. Pick a sturdy bullet that expands reliably (Nosler Partition and Federal Fusion both really impress me) and you'll be fine.


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## CPAjeff

AF CYN said:


> I know guys who kill them with sharp sticks and 50 ft/lbs of KE. Pick a sturdy bullet that expands reliably (Nosler Partition and Federal Fusion both really impress me) and you'll be fine.


I love this!! People survived for thousands of years, by killing animals with a rock attached to a stick, flipped by another stick!!!


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## caddis8

colorcountrygunner said:


> Can he grow a good man bun? He's gonna need it to get the full effect of the creedmoor. Craft beer is also needed. But maybe one of 3 arabians PBRs would suffice.


I have none of those things. I still have 6.5. Don't regret it, just tried something different. Great for kids and already have a .243 for deer, so thought the 6.5 would be a nice middle gun between .270 and .243. So far, I like it.


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## #1DEER 1-I

caddis8 said:


> I have none of those things. I still have 6.5. Don't regret it, just tried something different. Great for kids and already have a .243 for deer, so thought the 6.5 would be a nice middle gun between .270 and .243. So far, I like it.


The 6.5 is the only rifle I have I actually enjoy shooting a bunch in a day.


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## DallanC

I dont understand the push for the 6.5 over say, 7mm08... marketing I guess. /shrug









6.5 Creedmoor vs 7mm-08 Remington Review & Comparison


Want a sweet shooting big game hunting cartridge and can't decide between the 6.5 Creedmoor vs 7mm-08 Remington? The best choice is




thebiggamehuntingblog.com














I guess if you dont have a gun in this cartridge range, either would work. I like the wide bullet availability of the 7mm's.

-DallanC


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## caddis8

DallanC said:


> I dont understand the push for the 6.5 over say, 7mm08... marketing I guess. /shrug
> I guess if you dont have a gun in this cartridge range, either would work. I like the wide bullet availability of the 7mm's.


I debated a lot about this, and looked at so many charts/balistics. 6.5 or just going with an .06 for a larger gun? I probably did fall for the marketing a little. But, I've found that 6.5 ammunition availability off the shelf is pretty good. I'm not a hard core rifle shooter. I'm too cheap for that. I don't re-load, but I'd maybe think about it. I've found good availability in 6.5. I haven't seen that much 7mm-08 on the shelf, but that is a very good load. I haven't looked for it on the shelf either. I try to stay in the non-sexy calibers so I can find something to shoot anywhere I go. But then I buy a 6.5, so I speak out of both sides of my mouth. 

.25-06 is one I'd maybe re-consider as far as ballistics and overall performance. I like the idea of a long range gun, but probably wouldn't shoot at a living critter over 600 yards. I've got the equipment to do it. But I also understand long range shootings takes a lot of practice. I'd consider myself an above average all around shooter, but I recognize how much practice is required for longer range stuff and how much practice I haven't put in. 

Great discussion though.


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## Critter

The 6.5 crudmorr was for long range target shooting.

Then some started using it for big game. 

I have never looked or compared ballistics between it and the 7mm-08 but those long skinny 6.5mm bullets do shoot quite well at long range

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## APD

If I wanted to pick any spot on the front half of an elk, the Creedmoor wouldn't be my choice. As a lung shooter, the 6.5 has been fine for me. I also have larger calibers if I'm in thick terrain with less optimal shooting angles. Either way, all my rifles have a suppressor on the end. If you buy it now you could have it by the summer if you're on the short end of the wait list.


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## Irish Lad

DallanC said:


> Can it kill a big bull? Yes... should you chance your "once in a lifetime LE Elk Tag" on a 6.5CM? Hellz no.
> 
> I wouldnt recommend anything under a 280 for big bulls using 160gr bullets. 7MM08 is fine for cows and spikes using 140gr bullets... but IMO, needs a bit more "ooomph" to push 160gr bullets for big bulls. 280 has the power, bullet selection and has mild recoil. Next step up would be 30-06, then the 7RemMag, 300WM, 338 etc.
> 
> 6.8 Western impresses me ALOT. I already have caliber coverage around that area of the spectrum and its not worth all the cost just to get a SA cartridge (I have a 270 and a 7STW). 6.8 Western recoil apparently is similar to a 7RemMag but some amazing ballistics and downrange energy.
> 
> -DallanC


+1 on the .280. Love mine.


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## brisket

DallanC said:


> 6.8 Western recoil apparently is similar to a 7RemMag but some amazing ballistics and downrange energy.


My 6.8 Western has noticeably less recoil than my 7mm Rem Mag. But it isn’t a great comparison, different models, weights and my 6.8 has a muzzle break.


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## middlefork

.30-06 been killing stuff since the early 1900's. Bullets from 55 g to 220 g. Pick your poison.


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## DallanC

middlefork said:


> .30-06 been killing stuff since the early 1900's. Bullets from 55 g to 220 g. Pick your poison.


Lead 

-DallanC


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## BigT

It's a lot about shot placement. I've seen many bulls drop with a 6.5 CM out to 500 yards with the Hornady 143s. There's a lady I work with that dumped a massive bull this year on a local CWMU with a 270. Many of these kill shots out to 500 yards. Some further. I've probably witnessed more elk wounded and running with a 30-06 than any others. 

As others have mentioned, if you have to try to shoot through the front shoulder, the 6.5 CM is not likely the choice, but if you are able to get a good rest, and put it behind the shoulder, it'll drop just as well as any large caliber. 

I've got a 6.5CM and will take it with me on my upcoming LE elk hunt. I am also taking my 300WSM on the trip as well. I shoot suppressed. The 6.5 CM is a joy to shoot. The 300 not as much. But both are zeroed with a suppressor. Haven't decided which one I will take on the hill with me. Leaning 6.5.....


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## lifesshort

AF CYN said:


> I know guys who kill them with sharp sticks and 50 ft/lbs of KE. Pick a sturdy bullet that expands reliably (Nosler Partition and Federal Fusion both really impress me) and you'll be fine.


This is spot on. The bullet construction and being able to put that bullet where it belongs is much more important than the cartridge it comes out of. In my opinion there is no absolutely no difference in killing ability between 6.5,6.8,.270,7mm. What matters is
Accuracy-practice-practice-practice
Bullet construction
bullet weight
cartridge
In that order


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## waspocrew

I'd prefer a cartridge with a bit more "oomph" to it, but like others have mentioned, shot placement is what really matters. Hunt with what you are most comfortable shooting with and also recognize the limitations of the cartridge you are using.


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## Old Cowboy

BigT said:


> It's a lot about shot placement. I've seen many bulls drop with a 6.5 CM out to 500 yards with the Hornady 143s. There's a lady I work with that dumped a massive bull this year on a local CWMU with a 270. Many of these kill shots out to 500 yards. Some further. I've probably witnessed more elk wounded and running with a 30-06 than any others.
> 
> As others have mentioned, if you have to try to shoot through the front shoulder, the 6.5 CM is not likely the choice, but if you are able to get a good rest, and put it behind the shoulder, it'll drop just as well as any large caliber.
> 
> I've got a 6.5CM and will take it with me on my upcoming LE elk hunt. I am also taking my 300WSM on the trip as well. I shoot suppressed. The 6.5 CM is a joy to shoot. The 300 not as much. But both are zeroed with a suppressor. Haven't decided which one I will take on the hill with me. Leaning 6.5.....


Gotta call BS on your 30-06 coment.


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## BigT

Old Cowboy said:


> Gotta call BS on your 30-06 coment.


Call whatever you want. I am involved in A LOT of elk hunts... We grimace when a hunter brings their 30-06 into camp. It's resulted in A LOT of long tracks of wounded, and lost elk. But that could relate to hunters not placing the shots right. Personally, I think the 06 is a great 200-250 yard gun.


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## justismi28

Correlation does not imply causation. So to imply the cartridge is the main reason of fault(wounded elk), when ballistic data and math (ft/lbs of energy at distance) prove otherwise, can create false understandings from those without context. 

I would be more inclined to believe that given the popularity of the 06, that it is the caliber of choice for the average joe. So you have hunters who are showing up having shot less than 5 shots out of the gun all year, and have less than 40 down the tube in it's life. I'm talking the guys that buy the Remington 710, 783, or 770 with the Bushnell scope package and site it in with Core Lokts or PPU to be able to hit a paper plate at 100 yards and go hunting. They then get 5 more years of hunting using that same box of 20 they bought to site it in. (3 each year to 'verify zero')

When you have a skill issue coupled with 'inferior' or highly frangible bullets, you create a recipe for wounded elk. Fortunately, bullet's have got better and selection of OTC options is way past what it was, but even that won't make up for poor shot placement from lack of skill or experience.


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## colorcountrygunner

justismi28 said:


> Correlation does not imply causation. So to imply the cartridge is the main reason of fault(wounded elk), when ballistic data and math (ft/lbs of energy at distance) prove otherwise, can create false understandings from those without context.
> 
> I would be more inclined to believe that given the popularity of the 06, that it is the caliber of choice for the average joe. So you have hunters who are showing up having shot less than 5 shots out of the gun all year, and have less than 40 down the tube in it's life. I'm talking the guys that buy the Remington 710, 783, or 770 with the Bushnell scope package and site it in with Core Lokts or PPU to be able to hit a paper plate at 100 yards and go hunting. They then get 5 more years of hunting using that same box of 20 they bought to site it in. (3 each year to 'verify zero')
> 
> When you have a skill issue coupled with 'inferior' or highly frangible bullets, you create a recipe for wounded elk. Fortunately, bullet's have got better and selection of OTC options is way past what it was, but even that won't make up for poor shot placement from lack of skill or experience.


This is what I was thinking. I have heard people call the 7mm rem mag an elk wounder and I have heard loads of people call the .270 an elk wounder. Shot placement and bullet selection are more important than the cartridge. But if I'm gonna take a tough angle shot or shoot out past 300 yards I want something with a little arse behind it. I like the .300 winnie for elk myself. Though I would rather hunt them with sharp, pointy sticks.


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## colorcountrygunner

Edit


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## Old Cowboy

BigT said:


> Call whatever you want. I am involved in A LOT of elk hunts... We grimace when a hunter brings their 30-06 into camp. It's resulted in A LOT of long tracks of wounded, and lost elk. But that could relate to hunters not placing the shots right. Personally, I think the 06 is a great 200-250 yard gun.





BigT said:


> Call whatever you want. I am involved in A LOT of elk hunts... We grimace when a hunter brings their 30-06 into camp. It's resulted in A LOT of long tracks of wounded, and lost elk. But that could relate to hunters not placing the shots right. Personally, I think the 06 is a great 200-250 yard gun.


You sound like one of those long range guys. There have been a lot of guns produced over the last 40 or more years that will out perform the .06 long range. My experience with the.06 is quite opposite from yours. However, I can't ever recall shooting more than about 300 yards. I think we all agree that shot placement is the key to a clean kill.


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## BigT

Old Cowboy said:


> You sound like one of those long range guys. There have been a lot of guns produced over the last 40 or more years that will out perform the .06 long range. My experience with the.06 is quite opposite from yours. However, I can't ever recall shooting more than about 300 yards. I think we all agree that shot placement is the key to a clean kill.


I do enjoy long range target shooting. I am not into long range hunting. I've taken a few deer with an 06, but decided to go a different route a few years ago. Honestly I see them on the shelves, but I don't see many using them anymore at least in what I do. The PRC craze along with the 6.5CM has been pretty active. I see mostly 6.5CM in camp with a few 6.5 PRC. The second most common I see in camps are 300 Rem Mags. A few 7MMs, 300 PRCs, and an occasional 270 or 06.


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## cowboy

Over the course of modern history (after black powder weapons) I’d wager more animals of all sizes and composition have been killed with a .30-.30 than everything else. Shot placement is king. If I can kill a herd bull with my old Hoyt bow at 290 FPS and rifle can do the same. It’s the person pulling the trigger and what’s between their ears that matters. I guided elk and deer hunters for 12 years. Saw guys that could really shoot and some that couldn’t hit the ocean if they fell out of a boat. I can count on one hand the shots over 300 yards during that time. I’d never shoot my .270 600 yards because I’m not comfortable at that range. But at 300 yards I’ll fill my freezer. My nephew shot his first bull with a 6.5 creedmore at 240 yards. Forth shot killed it. But it was the only one that hit the elk. He was spun up excited and bull fever took over for a bit. But if you stuff a bullet of any caliber behind the front shoulder where it should be, that’s a dead critter. Good luck


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## Isuckathunting

I'm just now seeing this post but have been having this debate internally for a year. I have a 6.5 CM (no flat brims or man buns though sorry) I've used mine on two elk hunts, spike and cow. I shot 143 gr eld-x and 142 accubond, both went down where they stood with one shot. Both were just under 300 yds. Both had small entry holes and hardly bled externally but were just soup inside the vital zone. Having had those experiences I still don't think it's the best choice for an elk hunt.
I agree with much of what has been said with regards to shot placement and distance. I would never shoot over 300 yds at an elk with a Creedmoor. I also would feel more comfortable shooting a bigger gun at a big bull. Can you kill one? Sure. Is that something I'm comfortable with? Nope. Same thing with long range stuff. I talked with a guy recently who complained about the Creedmoor because he lost a bull he shot at 800 yds. I'm thinking to myself, well the gun isn't to blame this guy is just an idiot. He's shooting probably 2.5 or 3 times farther than he should be. 
In my opinion, it's a great deer gun, easy to hike around with, wonderful for my wife and kids because it's light and doesn't kick. It just lacks that kinetic energy transfer or knockdown power for something bigger because it can't push heavier bullets at the higher speeds. I have been cruising gun exchange looking for a 300 win mag or 7mm. I feel more confident and comfortable sending larger grain bullets 600-700 fps faster at big animals.


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## MadHunter

I say use a .416 Rigby and shoot at under 100 yds for maximum effect. Instant hamburger, no processing needed.


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## bthewilde

Oh man, I love the longeviy of Creedmoor posts! These never disappoint.


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## Irish Lad

bthewilde said:


> Oh man, I love the longeviy of Creedmoor posts! These never disappoint.


Me too! and I'm a 6.5 CM fan( I find the bashing highly entertaining)


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## MadHunter

It's very entertaining.
The 6.5 is a great caliber. It works for just about anything in the varmint to elk spectrum.
For the 6.5 to work in that spectrum the shooter has to know what he shoots and needs to be good.

I’ll sit here and chomp some popcorn. 🍿


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## ns450f

The most important factor determining the lethality of any cartridge for any animal is SHOT PLACEMENT! The 2nd most important factor is energy and it's effect on bullet performance/expansion.

If you can put your projectile where you want it with enough energy for the bullet to expand than there is nothing wrong with the 6.5 creedemore for elk.

A big problem with the 6.5 is people not understanding the importance of energy and bullet expansion. Too many people are shooting big game animals at long ranges with the 6.5 and there bullets have slowed down so much that the projectile doesn't expand and the critter doesn't die.

If someone can consistently hit their target and keep their groups under 1MOA with a rifle than that is the rifle they should be hunting with.

If your dad can't hit the mark everytime with other rifles or bigger calibers but he can with the 6.5 than he should absolutely use the 6.5

But if he can also consistently hit his target and keep his groups tight enough with a bigger caliber than he should not use the 6.5.

If he does decide to hunt with the 6.5 than make sure you understanr the ballistics of the projectile/load you are shooting.

As a rule of thumb modern bullets need at least 1,000 ft lbs of energy to expand and work they way they were designed to work. To be safe I will never shoot a big game animal with less than 1200 ft lbs of energy.

Depending on what load you use with a 6.5 creedemore you will drop below 1200 ft lbs in the 400 - 600 yard range.


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