# Bait fishing snobists



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

So with all the controversy going on about bait fisherman lately has got me thinkin about how fisherman and fly fisherman always bash heads about being snobs. I'm sorry to say but I fish to catch fish. If that means using bait i'm going to use bait. I'm not to proud or too stuborn to open a jar of powerbait and put some on if it's going to work. I'm sorry i just feel like there are getting to be a lot of people looking down on bait fishing. Yeah the mortality rate is much higher with bait but are you there to catch fish or practice your casting? I like to catch and release all but one or two here and there. I consider myself a sportsman. I pick up other people's trash, i catch and release, i'm all for what's best for the fish/game. But when it comes to fishing i fish to fish. I don't take more then my limit i don't over harvest and i don't bash other people for their fishing prefernces as long as it's legal. Just thought I would share that with you guys/gals. I'm sure i'm not the only one that feels that way. If you don't use bait by choice that's fine but enough with bashing on people who chose to. If it's what's working i don't blame myself or anyone else that choses to do it. Just getting to be too many snobs about it.


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

i agree with ya afdude. i usually have one pole out with either pb or a worm, and the other i huck a lure. there is something about catching fish on a lure that gets me, but there is nothing wrong with using bait. to each his own, i guess. i usually end up knocking em dead with worms or pb, and rig up both my poles for whichever one is hot at the moment. i havent followed any threads about people bashing bait huckers, but i agree that it is uncalled for and lame. good fishin. ill probably dust off my poles again when duck season ends and see if i still remember how to use em


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

First of all, I don't have a problem with bait fishing. I have caught many a fish on bait in my life. Rarely do I send a jig down an ice hole that doesn't have a mealworm on it. I prefer to fly fish because I enjoy it more because of the complexity, its effectiveness in rivers, the visual aspect, and the casting. The problem I have with bait fishing is the trash that many people leave behind. That is really the only part that frustrates me. Everywhere you find bait fishing you find broken bobbers, empty styrofoam worm containers, Empty powerbait jars, PB lids, occasional dead fish left on a stringer, etc... I know many are not responsible but the ones that do give everyone else a bad rap.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Link to said controversy?

I am also a fly fishing snob. Dry fly fishing in particular. But since it looks like the ice is finally coming, I just picked up some crawlers, meal worms, and I powder painted some glow in the dark jig heads just a few minutes ago. 

I just say no to powerbait because the stuff is messy as h3ll.


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## mjschijf (Oct 1, 2007)

I agree that nobody should frown upon somebody else for their preferred method of fishing. Personally, I don't like fishing with bait mostly because I'm mostly a catch and release guy and I like knowing that the fish I release have a very good chance of surviving. 

Also, to me it's more satisfactory catching fish with lures or flies than with bait. I get more of a sense that I "tricked" the fish into biting when I'm using a lure than if I huck a piece of stinky doughey goo into the water to let sit until a fish comes and gobbles it up. 

My last reason for preferring flies and lures is that I am not a "lazy" fisherman. I like to move around a lot while I'm fishing (maybe it has something to do with my ADD). This includes consistently moving up and down the shoreline when I'm fishing from shore, or kicking around a lake in my float tube. I would drive myself crazy if I just brought a chair out to my fishing spots, tied on a worm or powerbait, casted out, and plonked myself down on a chair just waiting for a fish to bite (or not) while I take a nap. That's just not my idea of fishing. I also like to cover more area because I just feel like I have a better chance of finding the fish if I move around more. 

Like I said at the beginning, I have no problem whatsoever with bait fishing. Even though I haven't fished with bait for a while I'm sure I will again some time. Fortunately I have not seen much fishing "elitism" going on here, and I hope it stays that way. Everyone has their own preferred method(s) of fishing for their own reasons. Personally, I have many reasons to prefer artificial flies and lures, just like I'm sure bait fishermen have their reasons to prefer fishing with bait.

The most important thing is to keep in mind that we are all a community of fishermen. There really is no reason to be critical of someone else's prefered methods if that is what THEY enjoy, as long as they are abiding by the law. In fact, one of the great things about fishing is that there are usually no "right" or "wrong" ways of doing things. You can always do what works best for you!


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

good points mijshchishchiejiejf. covering ground is important, but after what you said, i think i am a "lazy fisherman." to me, there is nothing more relaxing than sitting on a boat or on the shore just taking it all in, and waiting to be interrupted from the daydream aspect by a bouncing bobber or pole. there is a certain sense of satisfaction in tricking the fish into biting, like you said. i wish i could still fly fish. i used to do it a lot, but after my second shoulder surgery from baseball and weight lifting, i just couldnt do it anymore. oh well, trolling is my new obsession. we had a lot of success with it this year. i like to troll something on the lead core, and then toss a pointer off the front of the boat.. thats how i like to cover ground. we usually troll till we beat the skunk, then troll some more til we find a school of fish, and then drop anchor and huck worms, goo, and lures. i agree with flyguy about the garbage issue though. its too bad not everyone can pick up after themselves. its not that hard


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## mjschijf (Oct 1, 2007)

deadicated1 said:


> good points mijshchishchiejiejf. covering ground is important, but after what you said, i think i am a "lazy fisherman." to me, there is nothing more relaxing than sitting on a boat or on the shore just taking it all in, and waiting to be interrupted from the daydream aspect by a bouncing bobber or pole. there is a certain sense of satisfaction in tricking the fish into biting, like you said. i wish i could still fly fish. i used to do it a lot, but after my second shoulder surgery from baseball and weight lifting, i just couldnt do it anymore. oh well, trolling is my new obsession. we had a lot of success with it this year. i like to troll something on the lead core, and then toss a pointer off the front of the boat.. thats how i like to cover ground. we usually troll till we beat the skunk, then troll some more til we find a school of fish, and then drop anchor and huck worms, goo, and lures. i agree with flyguy about the garbage issue though. its too bad not everyone can pick up after themselves. its not that hard


I've only been trolling once before, this summer when I went on vacation to Canada. It doesn't really seem like my kind of thing because there is so much sitting around. However, if the fishing is hot, I can definitely see how it would be fun, and I know that trolling is the best method to target some species of fish.

I'm not planning on getting a boat any time soon, so for now it looks like it's going to be more shore roaming and kicking around in my float tube. Some day (when I can afford one) I can see myself investing in a boat. Right now though I'm pretty content with the methods I have to work with.


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## metal_fish (Mar 19, 2008)

Well said


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Paraphrasing a wise old fisherman:

"You don't bait what you love. You lure it in."
I can always just go buy a hooker. 
But part of the fun is in seduction.

Course, you baters wouldn't understand! :lol:


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

What's the difference between a dry fly fisherman and a bait fisherman?

Both rely on the fish to take an offering that just sits there or floats there? 

I've caught fish both ways and they seem a lot the same to me...

Fly fishermen get to see the fish break the water, but you could argue that's its just as exciting watching a bait pole that a fish is "messing with"

Either way is boring. 

It takes greater skill to get a fish to attack something that does not look like anything in the water and that the fish is not attracted to by smell...


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Peacefish, I think you could use an introduction to Herriman Ranch state park in idaho on the Henrys fork. After a couple days of throwing dries at those "silly rising rish" you may come back a little humbled. Everyone does one time or another (or every time for that matter).


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

peacefish said:


> What's the difference between a dry fly fisherman and a bait fisherman?
> 
> Both rely on the fish to take an offering that just sits there or floats there?
> 
> ...


What do you mean by your last statement?
How can you say fly fishing is boring?
Compared to what?


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## nate1031 (Jul 2, 2008)

peacefish said:


> What's the difference between a dry fly fisherman and a bait fisherman?
> 
> Both rely on the fish to take an offering that just sits there or floats there?
> 
> ...


You must be kidding right? First of all, fishing dries is rarely (if ever) just plopping a fly on the water and waiting for a fish. I don't remember the last time I casted and just sat there waiting. Can you catch fish by casting a fly out and letting it sit? Sure. Can you catch a hell of a lot more by using more effective ffing methods. Absofreakinlutely.

When fishing rivers there is a thing called drag that is VERY detrimental to catching fish. Matching the fly to what the fish are keying into has many different factors that play a role. It's not nearly as simple as you make it sound. Don't believe me? You can even visit the nearby Provo and I don't care what time of year it is, find some rising fish and cast that attractor pattern and bobber that you used on a Uinta lake. You won't catch a **** thing. Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Hardly.

If bait dunking and fishing dries seemed very similar you must remember that fishing a fly and a bubble doesn't count as fly fishing. Not the same. I would agree that seeing a fish take a dry may be just as exciting as seeing your bobber bounce around. That's what I love about fly fishing. Sometimes it's a sip for a small dry, an indicator shooting under, an eruption on a hopper, sucking a mouse pattern under...etc. It's all fun. Catching fish on lime green powerbait is fun.

The difference is that catching fish on powerbait and similar baits doesn't necessarily take any skill. It's more luck IMHO. My question is what makes one more "skilled" at fishing powerbait over another? Besides trying the different flavors that you packed to find the one the fish like and throwing chucking it out, what skills come into play that would help one dunker over the next? I know this sounds facetious but I'm am asking in all seriousness.

Your last statement was very interesting. The idea that it takes more skill to get fish to eat something that looks like nothing in their natural world that doesn't attract them by smell. I would have to agree. Now I'm wondering why the hell are you fishing with it and what kind of bait is there that doesn't look like food or smell? If you chucking bait why go with non-smelling over smelling? I'm really confused...


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> Paraphrasing a wise old fisherman:
> 
> "You don't bait what you love. You lure it in."
> I can always just go buy a hooker.
> ...


We don't like the fun of seduction
Some of us don't need to buy a 'hooker'. 
We catch so many fish in other ways. 
In our tackle box we always carry a _de-_hooker !!


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I believe what peacefish is trying to say is that it does take skill to fly fish. But it is quite boring to him. I personally never thought Peacefish would say this since he has dry flyed fish from Colorado to the top of Montana and Idaho. I personally stoped dry fly fishing and wet flyed fishing because I felt it was to boring. A jig fished with light tackle on any river,stream, lake is so much more exciting to me than any other type of fishing. Does it take skill, You still have to persent the jig right, cast right, let it drag right in a river or your not going to catch anything. From my experience I believe it takes more skill than a fly. IMHO


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

"hell are you fishing with it and what kind of bait is there that doesn't look like food or smell? If you chucking bait why go with non-smelling over smelling? I'm really confused..."

I don't fish with bait

I fish with jigs...

I do have a fly pole and I have caught fish in streams, rivers and lakes with a dry fly. To me it's just like fishing with a worm or floating power bait....


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

"Peacefish, I think you could use an introduction to Herriman Ranch state park in idaho on the Henrys fork. After a couple days of throwing dries at those "silly rising rish" you may come back a little humbled. Everyone does one time or another (or every time for that matter)."

Been there...

Some jig fishermen I know would've "humbled" everyone I saw with $1000 in rigs and waders and hats and guides...


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

And you are probably right. I'm not arguing a jig's effectiveness. It is an extremely effective way to catch fish. And illegal on the ranch. Its like saying bait fisherman would slay on PB and worms on the Green. It would, but its illegal. What I am arguing is the lack of skill to catch fish on dry flies. What you are saying is a contradictory statement. First it takes more skill to catch fish on something that doesn't imitate anything and second, jigs outfish flies.


> It takes greater skill to get a fish to attack something that does not look like anything in the water and that the fish is not attracted to by smell...


 Which one is it?


> Some jig fishermen I know would've "humbled" everyone I saw with $1000 in rigs and waders and hats and guides...


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## mjschijf (Oct 1, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> And you are probably right. I'm not arguing a jig's effectiveness. It is an extremely effective way to catch fish. *And illegal on the ranch. *Its like saying bait fisherman would slay on PB and worms on the Green. It would, but its illegal. What I am arguing is the lack of skill to catch fish on dry flies. What you are saying is a contradictory statement. First it takes more skill to catch fish on something that doesn't imitate anything and second, jigs outfish flies.


The ranch? Please explain


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

> From the lower Harriman State Park
> boundary upstream to the upper
> Harriman State Park boundary.
> Open June 15 - Nov 30 Fly fishing only. See pg. 10.
> ...


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## nate1031 (Jul 2, 2008)

peacefish said:


> "hell are you fishing with it and what kind of bait is there that doesn't look like food or smell? If you chucking bait why go with non-smelling over smelling? I'm really confused..."
> 
> I don't fish with bait
> 
> ...


Oh ok. Jigs. That changes things. Ya, jig fishing is definitely a challenge. It's definitely different than hucking a glob of goo out. I don't know if I'd say that jigs look nothing like anything in the water though. Spinners don't really either but they catch fish. Jigs are mimicking some sort of life and the fish fall for it.

I can understand if you find fishing dries boring. Hard for me to understand how but, hey, everyone has their thing. I guess what I still don't understand is how fishing dries is the same as floating powerbait. Maybe just difference in opinion. You say you've fished small streams on the fly. So picture this: ok, you're stalking a small stream and spotting the holding/feeding spots where the fish are going to be. You make a precise cast and immediately BAM! An unseen fish comes up and rocks your fly. Your knowledge of fish told you where and how to cast, your knowledge of the available food sources told you what fly to use, your casting skill put the fly/line where it needed to be, and as a result the presentation was what the fish was looking for. Now how is that the same as floating some powerbait?


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

To be honest 95% of most lures look really like nothing in the water. Topwaters? A firetiger colored Rapala? Fluorescent orange needlefish or triple teaser or Kastmaster? silver super duper? blue fox spinner? Rooster tail spinner? Lets be honest, none of these lures really imitate a food souce for the fish. They actively bite them because they trigger to feeding/ aggressive response of fish. You can't tell me a white z-ray trolled behing pop gear is effectively imitating a minnow swimming through the water. I think a jig does a better job at imitating food sources better than most lures out there.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

The same can be said for fly fishing. Does a glo bug really look like an egg? how about an autumn splendor, copper john, chenobyl ant, egg sucking leech, Lightning bug, Pink ray charles, etc..... Unless you are fishing a very precise imitation of the food source, you are more or less taking advantage of the feeding habits and opportunistic feeding behaviors of fish.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I just hate the taste of the PB&J sandwich my friend, who uses bait, gave me for lunch one day while fishing. He was using sparkle powerbait and some oily orange salmon eggs. My sandwich bread had orange goop and little sparkles in it. I only took one bite then disposed of the disgusting thing.


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## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

My point exactly


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

"you are more or less taking advantage of the feeding habits and opportunistic feeding behaviors of fish."

I can't disagree with that...

I just like to fish the way I fish...

As for this:

"From the lower Harriman State Park
boundary upstream to the upper
Harriman State Park boundary.
Open June 15 — Nov 30 Fly fishing only. See pg. 10.
Barbless hooks.
No motors.
Trout 0 Catch-and-release."

I didn't say I jig fished it, I just said that I know some people who would have out-fished everyone I saw...


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

> Its like saying bait fisherman would slay on PB and worms on the Green. It would, but its illegal.


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

I won't agree that jig fishing is the same as "PB and worms on the Green"

As I've argued before, Dry Fly fishing is closer to fishing with "PB and worms" because you just wait for the fish to take it...


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Not at all. You are constantly casting. The fly is moving the entire time, and you have to be able to control the drift of the fly and the line with good line management such as skate mends, feed mends, aerial mends, etc.. In a simplistic view, yes the fly is just floating along. But from a technical aspect there is a lot more involved in dry fly fishing than just casting out a jig and bouncing the rod as you reel. That is exactly why I brought up the Henrys fork. There are some places (like Uinta streams) where it is very easy to get a fish to eat a dry fly. Just throw a big stimulator upstream in a long deep run and strip line as it comes back to you. But there are places where if you do not do EVERYTHING right when dry fly fishing you will not catch fish. When a fish eats a jig, it is opportunisticly grabbing at it. When fish are feeding selectively on small mayflies in flat water with fish that have been caught time and time again, everything has to come together to catch that fish. This is why I frefer fishing small dries to rising fish above all others, even more than throwing hoppers. It takes luck out of the equation and it is up to your ability to read the fish, present a perfect cast and drift, and land him on light tippet. Plus you are fishing to individual fish, not just covering the water. It is as much like hunting than fishing.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I must be weird. I've been fly fishing for over 30 years and I haven't been bored yet. I've tried a lot of other pursuits and been bored, but fly fishing? Not yet!


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

peacefish said:


> "
> I do have a fly pole and I have caught fish in streams, rivers and lakes with a dry fly. To me it's just like fishing with a worm or floating power bait....


There's youR problem- you fish with a POLE.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Packfish said:


> peacefish said:
> 
> 
> > "
> ...


 -BaHa!- :rotfl: That's a good one.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

LOL -_O-


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh, I get it, it's not a fly pole, it's a fly rod, that's real funny...why would any one accuse you fly fishermen of snobbery?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

peacefish said:


> Oh, I get it, it's not a fly pole, it's a fly rod, that's real funny...why would any one accuse you fly fishermen of snobbery?


Don't let 'em bother you too much peacefish. I use a _fly pole _once in a while and sometimes I use a _spinning rod _and sometimes a _fishing pole_. All of 'em can work with a worm !!! :mrgreen:


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Shhhhhh! .45! don't let the word get out! We all know you can't fish a worm on a fly pole (or rod) :wink:


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

.45 said:


> peacefish said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I get it, it's not a fly pole, it's a fly rod, that's real funny...why would any one accuse you fly fishermen of snobbery?
> ...




This is a "personal attack" by a moderator :!: Why do you say those things about the guys on the board who work for United Fire Authority? -BaHa!-


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## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

fatbass said:


> +1 to both posts. Bait catches dinner. I haven't seen any baiter bashing going on for some time now. afdude, where's the beef? :?:


No need for explanation


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

.45 said:


> peacefish said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I get it, it's not a fly pole, it's a fly rod, that's real funny...why would any one accuse you fly fishermen of snobbery?
> ...


Or cheese. Heck, just throw them a big chunk of plastic something that looks like an injured minnow and you won't have to worry about all that other stuff. 8)


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

"Abe, that bait stinks!"
"What? Lige"
"That bait stinks!"
"Huh?"
"Bait stinks! Bait stinks! Bait stinks bait stink bait stink bait!"
"Oh! Stink bait!"


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

americanforkdude said:


> fatbass said:
> 
> 
> > +1 to both posts. Bait catches dinner. I haven't seen any baiter bashing going on for some time now. afdude, where's the beef? :?:
> ...


Fly fishermen are not alone in trying to educate others about C&R or Selective Harvest.
Look at Bass Anglers.
They are the most passionate people that I have ever met.

I don't see it as bashing but rather as giving their opinion on C&R fishing.
I do both and most of my fish are returned to the water
but not many Perch make it back in!

I think that practicing Selective Harvest is very important at Community Ponds.
These ponds are over fished and emptied within a few days of stocking.
If anglers would practice C&R or Selective Harvest in these ponds, the fish would last a lot longer for everyone to enjoy.

I don't like to see anyone getting bashed for posting of successfull fishing trips and bringing home a limit of fish once in a while but if we all took home a limit every time we all went fishing, the fish would be gone in no time and never get the chance to grow.

This is our resource and we all need to help to protect it.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

A good jig fisherman, will not just reel in and jig at the same time. I did get bored of fly fishing. That is why I don't use my fly rod anymore. It is more of a challenge to catch fish jigging. Think of the skill it takes to jig along the bottom, move past rocks, moss and other structures with out getting snagged, or my favorite when the fish are looking for only one type of food (like a mayfly) and being able to jig in such a way that the fish change their eating habits. Talk about hunting fish. Try jigging past fish that know you are there and still being able to move or suspended the jig in such a way that the fish will still hit the jig. IMHO, 

Jigging you still get all the benefits of fly fishing, seeing fish hit, jump, take the jig in front of you but the fight of a fish on a jig is so much better than the for mentioned methods, they dive, pull, jump, swirl, you get a sore wrist from fight fish not from casting. To me nothing is more enjoyable than catching fish with jigs. Plus, it is quite the challenge to jig just perfect to get fincky fish to bit.


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## Dead Drifter (Nov 22, 2008)

I just like the feel of laying out a nice smooth and delicate cast to an unsuspecting trout; watchiing the fly drift into the trouts view; watch the trout lift from the current, sip the fly, and then lift the rod tip and battle it to my waiting hand. I then admire its beautiful colors, let it go, and then look around at the sky, the clouds, the mountains and the trees and softly whisper...it doesn't get any better than this. It's in my heart and soul. I know most of you just want to catch fish and rip lips, That's okay. It's so much more for me.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Brookie said:


> A good jig fisherman, will not just reel in and jig at the same time. I did get bored of fly fishing. That is why I don't use my fly rod anymore. It is more of a challenge to catch fish jigging. Think of the skill it takes to jig along the bottom, move past rocks, moss and other structures with out getting snagged, or my favorite when the fish are looking for only one type of food (like a mayfly) and being able to jig in such a way that the fish change their eating habits. Talk about hunting fish. Try jigging past fish that know you are there and still being able to move or suspended the jig in such a way that the fish will still hit the jig. IMHO,
> 
> Jigging you still get all the benefits of fly fishing, seeing fish hit, jump, take the jig in front of you but the fight of a fish on a jig is so much better than the for mentioned methods, they dive, pull, jump, swirl, you get a sore wrist from fight fish not from casting. To me nothing is more enjoyable than catching fish with jigs. Plus, it is quite the challenge to jig just perfect to get fincky fish to bit.


I see a lot of similaraties between jig fishing and fly fishing.
Fishing a woolly bugger is similar to fishing jigs.
Both are fished on the bottom and worked through the structure.
One just uses a pole and the other a rod!


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Jig fishing - fly fishing- both enjoyable ways to fish- Done them both for - well more years than I care to remember. Both take time to learn well. It's just fly fishing over the last 30 years has made me learn more about the over all aspect of the river, lake environment, ecology, biology, entomology and a myriad of other things that other fishing doesn't force you to do to be good at it. Not saying others don't learn that with other types of fishing but fly fishing basically forces you to do that or not be very good at it. As long as you get out, don't litter , don't trash the landscape , obey the laws and enjoy yourself--------- great no matter how you do it.


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> .45 said:
> 
> 
> > peacefish said:
> ...


HIJACK WARNING: This is your one chance to knock it off, goon! :mrgreen:


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Good post, Packfish. Fly fishing is such a broad and diverse sport there is really no way to compare it to jig fishing if you want to master every aspect of the sport. Its like jig fishing bait fishing, trolling, and bass fishing all in one. Its just too diverse.


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

"Its like jig fishing bait fishing, trolling, and bass fishing all in one. Its just too diverse."

No, it isn't.

I jigged the Fremont this weekend just above Mill Meadow. A guy I was with fly fished it starting with a midge, then an attractor on top and then fishing with a few things underneath. He was searching for a pattern that would work while I was catching fish with a jig. The water was so clear and shallow that he could not wade without scaring the fish.

I worked the jig under banks, around rocks and under and over brush that he could not get to. That's where I caught fish.

I could jig in the riffles and in the deeper holes, in three inches of water and three feet...

Even with a wooly-buggar, he could not fish to the fish I could...

You are correct about one thing, fly fishing is like bait fishing, it's just that you use a ROD that you can brag to your friends about....

I'll argue that not only are fly fishing and jig fishing very different, but those who choose to fish either way are very different as well...

Jig fishermen catch fish, they are less concerned about places like "The Black Canyon of the Gunnison" or "The Henry's Fork" and more concerned about fishing nameless, faceless places with out company and no one to show off for...jig fishermen fish for themselves and for the fish...

I'm being a jerk, I know, I just think that jig fishermen need to be recognized...


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

I'm being a jerk, I know, I just think that jig fishermen need to be recognized...

Yes I agree- 

Jig fishing takes talent- never said it didn't- if I had to be stranded somewhere and had only one thing to fish with to survive it would be a black jig period. 
I could care less about being recognized- there are few people who can blend into the back ground like I can. But the point is I can teach someome to jig fish having them come fish with me a few times. I can't do that with fly fishing or even come close. The difference is the rod and the line. Hell I don't care how ones fishes but I have done most types of fishing- except power bait- and became fairly decent at all of them. None takes the time and effort of fly fishing- If the guy fly fishing with you was going thru everything he had in his box to figure out what was happening he still has a lot more to learn----------- and we all still have a lot to learn- otherwise it just wouldn't be any fun.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

> I'm being a jerk, I know


 Well, you got that part right. Your post just proves what many of us are saying


> Even with a wooly-buggar, he could not fish to the fish I could...


 Its called streamer fishing, not woolly bugger fishing. There are numerous types of streamers than a woolly bugger. And much plays into the design of the fly. Flies can be tied with heavy dumbell eyes or tungsten cones. Also the casting competency of the angler. You stated one situation with someone who may (or may not) have been a proficient angler. This could go back and forth forever. You know how many times I have seem jig fisherman stand in the river casting away while guys around him are pounding the **** out of fish one after another. Skill is different with any angler out there and there is both good and bad, with all types of anglers. You have proven the point that you do not know enough about it to judge it as bait fishing.


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

"and we all still have a lot to learn"

That's true...

"Its called streamer fishing, not woolly bugger fishing." 

And that, my friend is why I'm giving up the fly rod for good...you've proved my point...

Fly-fishermen are more concerned with being right than being good...I'm REAL impressed with your proper use of angling terms. 

"You have proven the point that you do not know enough about it to judge it as bait fishing."

I've fly-fished almost exclusivlly for the past ten years...I've caught fish on wets, drys, and STREAMERS and tied my own...I've fished in and out of Utah...I read books, studied and caught fish...I give money to TU and read "Trout."

I just don't like fly-fishing anymore, and you aren't convincing me that those who participate in the sport are going to do anything but tell me how stupid I am.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

YOU are the one who went on the attack, Peacefish. Not everyone else. So we get it, you are trying to state you can out fish anyone who fly fished any day. Right on, more power to ya.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Poo Pie said:


> Don't let 'em bother you too much peacefish. I use a _fly pole _once in a while and sometimes I use a _spinning rod _and sometimes a _fishing pole_. *All of 'em can work with a worm !!! :mrgreen:*




This is a "personal attack" by a moderator :!: Why do you say those things about the guys on the board who work for United Fire Authority? -BaHa!-[/quote]

HIJACK WARNING: This is your one chance to knock it off, goon! :mrgreen:[/quote]

What you talkin' about Willis? -/|\- -oOo-


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

"you can out fish anyone who fly fished any day"

That's not my argument. I didn't write that in any of my posts. I said that some jig fishermen I know could out fish the snobby, affluent, wadder wearing freaks whose tackle would have sold for more than my truck that just happened to be at the Herriman Ranch on the Henry's Fork when I was there. 

I've been out fished by fly-fishermen. I've out fished people with MY fly rod. 

I argue that dry fly fishing is the same as bait fishing because you just watch your fly, or (and I'll probably use the wrong terminology here) strike indicator and wait for a fish to take it.

Jig fishermen have to "convince" a fish to take tackle that they wouldn't otherwise eat.

Jig fishing is the better pursuit.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

THE FACT IS---------- not only am I right - I'm **** good. 

But just because I am so right that I know that every once in awhile I might not be, only because I don't understand one's rambling. You are saying that bait fishing is the same as dry fly fishing- You know I had a long drawn out and fairly funny thread to write on this but I just can't get myself to do it any longer. Enjoy your jigging- at times thru out the year I will also- especailly brookie fishing. I have always given talent it's do. Those that do what they do very well no matter what it is deserve it.


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## FLYFSHR (Apr 16, 2008)

For the most part there's only two styles of fishing I do which is flyfishing and jigging.
I have studied a little entomology and fish behavior and tie my own bugs.

For me it's definatley not all about "catching". It's the simple fact of the hunt and/or the challenge. While being able to lay within those scopes I get a satisfaction with both styles of fishing.

But I totally disagree with any comparison between the two.



peacefish said:


> "
> I argue that dry fly fishing is the same as bait fishing because you just watch your fly


I believe you have just posted the stupidest quote of the year.



peacefish said:


> "
> Jig fishermen have to "convince" a fish to take tackle that they wouldn't otherwise eat


So those jigs don't represent anything those fish would deem as food?
I guess flyfishermen don't have to "convince" fish to take their flys?

Maybe you never really got the whole aspect of flyfishing when you took up jigging but I respect that.
I respect any anglers that have their own style
But soap box attitudes will not get you any further...IMHO


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Boy....you guy's and your ways of fishing !!! :roll: :roll: 

When I fish with a hook, line and sinker............I have a beer. 
When I fish with a 'woolly bugger'.................. I have a beer
When I'm trolling...........................................I have a beer
When I'm reading about fishing....................... I have a beer
When I'm on the forum...................................I have a beer

This is the most proven method to enjoy one's self while fishing.....jeez, I don't want to catch one of them slimy things and ruin my day !!! :evil:

I just don't get what you guy's are arguing about !?!?!??


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

Every fish I caught with a dry fly, I caught by watching my fly until a fish took it...

"I believe you have just posted the stupidest quote of the year."

What you wrote makes me believe that fly fishermen think that other fishermen are stupid.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

There are two types of fisherman, the fly fisherman, and those that want to be fly fisherman. :wink: -oOo- *(u)*


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

When I want to get drunk..........have a beer bong
When I have a bad day at word.......have a beer bong
When i'm bored................have a beer bong
When i'm reading Peacefish's posts...........have a beer bong


You guys hash it out. I tried and its like talking to a tube jig. I'm going to go have a beer bong.


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## nate1031 (Jul 2, 2008)

Wait a sec....isn't the title of this thread "bait fishing snobists"???? First of all I think "snob" would do, unless you want to invent words. Where did all this talk about jigging come from anyway? I'm haven't spin fished for like 10 years but if I remember correctly jigs aren't considered bait. 

Peacefish, I think after your 28 million posts of saying the same thing over and over we all fully understand that jig fishing takes skill. Congrats and participating in a sport that takes skill.

RE: orignal post topic. I don't have a problem with people who throw bait per se, but in all my time outside and on the water the negative experiences I've had with bait dunkers still greatly outweigh the good. Sorry if I'm a snob. I just haven't seen too many responsible bait dunkers.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Only fly fishermen can catch and release properly.... -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- 

This release was okay.....


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

.45 said:


> Only fly fishermen can catch and release properly.... -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O-
> 
> This release was okay.....


Holy crap .45, squeeze the life out of that thing why don't you. :wink: Be GENTLE. Their eyes aren't supposed to be popping out. :rotfl: -_O- *\-\* J/k BTW.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Knock it off McFly !!!!!! _(O)_ 

This one was mean, he swallowed my finger.... :shock:

My point being.....a bait guy can C & R as well as the purist.....so ha...


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Holy geez, this is retarded!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

peacefish said:


> you've proved my point... Fly-fishermen are more concerned with being right than being good...I'm REAL impressed with your proper use of angling terms.


I'd agree about some of them being that way.... some actually know their stuff and are fun to talk to because from picking their brain, I can figure out what I can apply from my "side" of fishing to catch fish on the same waters they are successful on.



peacefish said:


> *I've fly-fished almost exclusivlly for the past ten years*...I've caught fish on wets, drys, and STREAMERS and tied my own...I've fished in and out of Utah...I read books, studied and caught fish...I give money to TU and read "Trout."


I'm sorry you wasted so much time before picking up hardware.  I do most of that as well, including reading all about fly fishing, trout and the things associated with the sport but I won't ever flyfish... publicly. 8) Like somebody said about the bait fishermen... with fly guys, I've had too many negative experiences to completely cross over to that crowd.


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## nate1031 (Jul 2, 2008)

Riverrat77 said:


> I'm sorry you wasted so much time before picking up hardware.  I do most of that as well, including reading all about fly fishing, trout and the things associated with the sport but I won't ever flyfish... publicly. 8) Like somebody said about the bait fishermen... with fly guys, I've had too many negative experiences to completely cross over to that crowd.


I'm sorry your experiences keep you from enjoying ffing. From the time that I started teaching myself to flyfish when I was 12 up until recently, I probably spent 95% of the time fishing by myself. Most of that time was spent fishing places with no one else around. In my travels the only ffers that I really came across are the ones in the shops that helped me learn the ropes. They were never anything but nice. If I came across one outside our interaction was probably limited to a wave or a nod. The reason I have the feelings that I do is that in that same period of time the majority of the times that I came across bait dunkers I witnessed either them with their litter, the litter that they left behind (beer cans, bottles, wrappers, worm cups, wads of mono, broken bobbers, etc. etc. etc. and their (the people I came across and not dunkers as a whole per se) overall disrespect for the resources and the fish. Even though I try, I still can't wipe the bad taste from my mouth.

That being said, I don't think that you have to join one crowd or the other. I personally try and stick away from the crowds and seek the solitude and beauty that the sport offers. That's why it bugs so bad when I'm off seeking that solitude and beauty and still run across the ugliness left behind by the careless. Unfortunately to say, more often than not the careless' weapon of choice: bait.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm mostly kidding... I've caught lots of whitefish on a drifted scud in January on the Weber... reeled up with my trusty spinning reel. I don't harbor any resentment any more, but will poke fun given the opportunity. Like anything else, there are good, bad and indifferent folks of all sorts and its more a person by person thing now than just "one group is bad". F/V Gulf Venture..... one of the coolest fly fishing folks I've ever talked to. He's not the only one... one of my best friends, Leaky, is a fly fishing guy a lot as well as my internet conscience most of the time, but I just won't cross all the way over into that type of fishing yet. More than anything its just not wanting to have to learn a bunch of new crap, buy a bunch of new crap or try and store a bunch of new crap all over again.... I'm sure my wife has had about enough already. :lol:


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## nate1031 (Jul 2, 2008)

I agree with you. I do still feel disappointed that there are still so many out there that don't feel the need to do their part in taking care of our resources. It's all on us and we all have our impact - for good or for bad. 

I feel ya with the lady. My wife laughs at me when I make my "Christmas list" and it's all fishing stuff.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Holy geez, this is retarded!


Not quite yet, but a few more post from you it will be ..... -_O- -_O-


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

Brookie said:


> A good jig fisherman, will not just reel in and jig at the same time. I did get bored of fly fishing. That is why I don't use my fly rod anymore. It is more of a challenge to catch fish jigging. Think of the skill it takes to jig along the bottom, move past rocks, moss and other structures with out getting snagged, or my favorite when the fish are looking for only one type of food (like a mayfly) and being able to jig in such a way that the fish change their eating habits. Talk about hunting fish. Try jigging past fish that know you are there and still being able to move or suspended the jig in such a way that the fish will still hit the jig. IMHO,
> 
> Jigging you still get all the benefits of fly fishing, seeing fish hit, jump, take the jig in front of you but the fight of a fish on a jig is so much better than the for mentioned methods, they dive, pull, jump, swirl, you get a sore wrist from fight fish not from casting. To me nothing is more enjoyable than catching fish with jigs. Plus, it is quite the challenge to jig just perfect to get fincky fish to bit.


Brookie, I share your passion for the jig. Their effectiveness is undeniable. They are my go-to 95% of the time. However, I guarantee you that during certain hatches and feeding periods particularly on pressured streams and skinny water our jigs will get no more attention than a cigar butt. The only way you might hook one of those educated trout is to foul hook it. These conditions are where flyfishermen shine. Big hungry brookies in alpine lakes is where we rule!


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## Nueces (Jul 22, 2008)

brookieguy1 said:


> Brookie said:
> 
> 
> > However, I guarantee you that during certain hatches and feeding periods particularly on pressured streams and skinny water our jigs will get no more attention than a *cigar butt*.


Hmmmpfh! I guess I need to take this fly out of my box? :?:


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm sorry brookieguy1 and not to be rude but your not a good enough jig fisherman if you can't catch an educated fish out of a little stream without foul hooking it. Any lake in Utah now a days has been educated and has had plently throw at it. The past five years have been the worst for me with people showing up where there used not be people. 

Plus, riverrat77 I've had way to manying fly fisherman being rude to me on lower fish creek, the logan and etc just because I'm using a jig on an artifical lure only place. No worries though it hasn't stopped me from fishing. To good of a sport to stop.


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## RyanCreek (Dec 8, 2007)

"&#8230; flyfishing purity lasts only as long as the other guy is not catching fish with a spinning rod." -- Hooker

"Fall from grace and catch some fish. I'll never understand why some anglers are so exclusive in their methods of fishing that they forego the pleasure of a tight line. *Every technique has its time and place*, and the angler that is consistently successful has to be able to adapt to the conditions." -- Hooker

The above quotes say it well in my opinion. This whole thread is a circular argument though that isn't going to go anywhere, like getting two people from different religions together to talk about God. People are going to prefer whatever style they like best. Nothing wrong with that.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

good post brookieguy1...


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

Nueces said:


> brookieguy1 said:
> 
> 
> > Brookie said:
> ...


No save it! Those simple minded cutts at Strawberry will inhale that thing.


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

Brookie said:


> I'm sorry brookieguy1 and not to be rude but your not a good enough jig fisherman if you can't catch an educated fish out of a little stream without foul hooking it. Any lake in Utah now a days has been educated and has had plently throw at it. The past five years have been the worst for me with people showing up where there used not be people.
> 
> Plus, riverrat77 I've had way to manying fly fisherman being rude to me on lower fish creek, the logan and etc just because I'm using a jig on an artifical lure only place. No worries though it hasn't stopped me from fishing. To good of a sport to stop.


Wow. I guess you haven't heard. I am the Master of Maribou, the Perfectionist of Plastics, the Tube Tyrant. I am nothing less than an Institution in jig fishing. If anyone doesn't believe me, just ask me!


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Snobs, elitists- jerks- whatever and A#@%%% is an A#@@%* no matter what rod, pole or stick he is holding at the time. They come in all sizes , shapes and beliefs. 
At times a jig guy will clean house and at times a fly guy will clean house and the rest of the time a bait guy does. Be smart enough to know when to change and good enough at all to make it worth while.


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## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

Packfish said:


> Snobs, elitists- jerks- whatever and A#@%%% is an A#@@%* no matter what rod, pole or stick he is holding at the time. They come in all sizes , shapes and beliefs.
> At times a jig guy will clean house and at times a fly guy will clean house and the rest of the time a bait guy does. Be smart enough to know when to change and good enough at all to make it worth while.


+1


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Holy geez, this is retarded!


+1
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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