# Anyone Know Who This Is?



## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

So, for three years running there's a guy who says he has been trying to put a hunter on a couple of my favorite bulls and claims to be a "guide". This year he is pissing and stinking up my honey hole with a train of traffic and I'm bound and determined to figure out what his deal is, where these "hunters" are coming from, and if he's licensed to outfit or guide in Utah. I've invested a lot of time and money on this public land and for the quality of bulls and bucks to be roaming around there are far better places for him to be setting up paying hunters/customers than on public land against local hunters. So, before I hang wind chimes all over his crappy little tree stand and start leaving bags of dog crap on the hood of his dumpy truck, I figured I'd ask if any of you know who he is and get some background on him before I turn him over to DWR. Since he started going in to my little honey hole, the big bulls and bucks stopped showing up and have moved to other cameras. He's an idiot and something tells me that a licensed guide isn't going to bring a train of human into a place like this where he has to know (six different cameras and two already erected tree stands) that there is already another human going in there to begin with. I don't mind if HE has a tag himself and is going to hunt in there....STOP WITH THE FAMILY HOME EVENING ALREADY....but every time I've ever seen this guy, he's in the back of someone's out of state vehicle or on my trail cameras dinking off. PM me if you have his contact info, or if YOU are him. Thanks!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I don't know if this going in a good direction?? Do you think these 9-year olds are his goon squad?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

hahahaha......yup.....one of them smudged tree sap on the lens of my #8 trail camera. I'm guessing dad told him to do that or if not, he's a mischievous little punk. But my grievance is with dad trekking the entire family through there once a week and he going in there twice a week himself. Who does that?!?! I only check my cameras every couple of weeks in there and that is why I haven't bumped into him yet. I'm sure I'll see him before the hunt but I'd sure like to have a conversation with him before he ruins this area for the both of us or anyone else, for that matter. The mature animals are so sensitive to pressure already, they aren't showing. He has to stop bringing his own herd!


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

Other than messing with your cameras, the guy has every right to go in there as often as he wants since it is public lands. I find it pretty cool that he has his family along in the woods. It is much better than having them stay home and play video games. The youth are the future of hunting and we all need to get them involved. I do finding it disturbing that they are messing with your stuff. If he truly is a licensed guide he should probably know better and not put so much pressure on the animals. He probably isn't very successful and will lose his clients and going under in time. This is one of the problems with hunting on public land that we all have to deal with due to the fact that it is owned by the public and not one individual. My advise would be to move to a different spot, just like you said "*I've invested a lot of time and money on this public land and for the quality of bulls and bucks to be roaming around there are far better places for him to be setting up paying hunters/customers than on public land against local hunters.*" No reason the other paying hunters/customers shouldn't apply to you as well. 
The other option is to deal with what you have and hunt the area. I'm sure the animals are still there probably just doing something different. Or you can do what the rich do and buy some land and post it so you can hunt it all by yourself.


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## c3hammer (Nov 1, 2009)

No idea who he is, but it just looks like a family having fun together. That spot can't be very good if the elk are (were) there this time of year. Looks like it's time to move on and concetrate on spots the elk will be during the hunt not where they are now.

Cheers,
Pete


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

leviwin said:


> Other than messing with your cameras. They guy has every right to go in there as often as he wants since it is public lands. I find it pretty cool that he has his family along in the woods. It is much better than having them stay home and play video games. I do finding it disturbing that they are messing with your stuff. If he truly is a licensed guide he should probably know better and not put so much pressure on the animals. He probably isn't very successful and will lose his clients and going under in time. This is one of the problems with hunting on public land that we all have to deal with due to the fact that it is owned by the public and not one individual. My advise would be to move to a different spot, just like you said "I've invested a lot of time and money on this public land and for the quality of bulls and bucks to be roaming around there are far better places for him to be setting up paying hunters/customers than on public land against local hunters." Or the other option is to deal with what you have.


THAT is exactly why I want to find out who he is and talk to him before he ruins it for EVERYONE. Might as well have a conversation before either of us are invested anymore than we have to be. Not trying to debate who has the right to go where, just want to discuss what his intentions are so I can go to plan "B" and if that's the case, let him know he's an unethical jackass and then I'll get my gear out of there ASAP and sadly let him ruin what has been a great Honey Hole for years. More than one hunter can be very successful in there if it is carefully monitored.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

While I would be frustrated with this guy's actions after putting so much time in to learn an area, Levi is right. This guy has every right to be there with his family. My suggestion, if you're so upset, is to get down there more often and try to talk to the guy in a civil manner. I doubt he's a licensed guide by his actions. He's probably a clueless dude looking to put meat in the freezer. You've obviouly done your homework on the animals there. Now it's time to put on the PR hat. I bet if you're civil about it, you'll be able to work something out.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

c3hammer said:


> No idea who he is, but it just looks like a family having fun together. That spot can't be very good if the elk are (were) there this time of year. Looks like it's time to move on and concetrate on spots the elk will be during the hunt not where they are now.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pete


Its a choke point between beds, food, and water. The lead cows and bulls will use this area not only sporatically now but even more during the hunt because of increased pressure elsewhere. Road hunters and other hunters who won't go farther than 500 yards from the road will make where my stands are a freeway for elk and deer and it has every year now for five years. I'm not bagging on family time either.....I enjoy taking my kids with me BUT NOT TO A HONEY HOLE! And I'm not going to take there to places where I would take a client. I just want to speak with him and find out if he's 1. Licensed 2. Going to chill on the traffic in and out of there week to week before the hunt. Then I can make the obvious move to somewhere else. I have other stands, other cameras and other Honey Holes but this one produces for me every year. Put yourself in my shoes and understand if someone suddenly decided to throw a party in your favorite PUBLIC spot. You'd at least want to know, "what the heck", right?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Yep, that is one of the problems hunting public land and is one of the things that you have to put up with. 

If you know his vehicle why not leave a note for him to give you a call or post a note on the trail in where he would see it.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

You might not be back in there far enough if you have women and small children strolling by on there way to their favorite picknick spot. If you want to claim a piece of public ground your own I'd go in a little further.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

MWScott72 said:


> While I would be frustrated with this guy's actions after putting so much time in to learn an area, Levi is right. This guy has every right to be there with his family. My suggestion, if you're so upset, is to get down there more often and try to talk to the guy in a civil manner. I doubt he's a licensed guide by his actions. He's probably a clueless dude looking to put meat in the freezer. You've obviouly done your homework on the animals there. Now it's time to put on the PR hat. I bet if you're civil about it, you'll be able to work something out.


Thanks! That's all I'm trying to do and trust me, I've been trying to catch up with the guy but somehow he's eluded me despite being in there all the time on my camera. This is the only time he's taken in whole family. Its usually one or both boys which is fine and he's in and out pretty quick I'm assuming to check his own cameras. Fine, but he should know they've stopped coming in to this side and are now on the other side of where the setup is (I said I have other options, I just like this one better). If he's not licensed, my knowledge of that will likely get him to get his junk out of there, if he is, I'll gladly cooperate to protect the honey hole and both of us will benefit, but we have to have that conversation. So again, just looking to see if anyone knows him. I don't want him crucified or hanged, I just want to have a frank discussion with him sooner rather than later.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

Leave a note with your name and phone number attached to one of his cams. Ask him to give you a call.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

From the original post it makes it sounds like your out for blood and think that the mountain is yours. To quote what you said "So, before I hang wind chimes all over his crappy little tree stand and start leaving bags of dog crap on the hood of his dumpy truck, I figured I'd ask if any of you know who he is and get some background on him before I turn him over to DWR." I don't know either one of you and I don't know the whole story. It really doesn't matter if he is a guide or not he has every right to be there and can camp right in front of you stand if he wants to. I not saying that it is right or ethical, but that is the reality of hunting on public land. They do call it hunting and not harvesting because you have to work for the prize. I truly hope you do the right thing and be the better man and do what you say and just have a frank discussion with him and not what you originally posted.

I see no problem bring your family, especially you kids to your honey hole. There is no better way to learn than from first hand experience. I have packed my kid up many a mountain looking for fish or game, be it bird or big game since he was about 2 years old. My hope is that he can learn to enjoy the outdoors and be an ethical hunter. I know there are a lot of jerks out there but the mountains are big and there are plenty of bucks and bulls around. It is too bad a people look past what I believe one of the best things of hunting is, spending time with family and enjoying the outdoors. I hope all goes well and that you can work your problem out without any trouble. I think way to may people feel entitled to owning a "spot" or big game when in reality it is everyone's. We are blessed to have so much public land and not have to pay to hunt like they do in other states. Enjoy it while you have it and have fun. Don't let some idiot ruin a good time.


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## captain (Nov 18, 2007)

10000ft. said:


> You might not be back in there far enough if you have women and small children strolling by on there way to their favorite picknick spot. If you want to claim a piece of public ground your own I'd go in a little further.


+1 Move on and find another place to hunt if you can't deal with the pressure. I like seeing a father with kids in tow up in the mountains almost as much as I like seeing a big bull. Sorry, but I'm not on your side.


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## amadkau (Sep 7, 2011)

Critter said:


> Yep, that is one of the problems hunting public land and is one of the things that you have to put up with.
> 
> If you know his vehicle why not leave a note for him to give you a call or post a note on the trail in where he would see it.


+1


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I have edited the picture and saved the original. 

The UWN does not make it a habit of prying into peoples personal lives and we typically steer clear of airing personal one-on-ones on the forum. These things are better taken care of off-forum.

The mods will talk it over some.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

> Not trying to debate who has the right to go where, just want to discuss what his intentions are so I can go to plan "B" and if that's the case, let him know he's an unethical jackass and then I'll get my gear out of there ASAP and sadly let him ruin what has been a great Honey Hole for years.


I'm curious here - what is he doing that would make him an "unethical jackass?"


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

I love this! You think that by putting up a camera (or urinating on the ground) you've marked your territory, and now all males have to stay off of it. This is classic UTARD behavior. You aren't entitled to jack squat, just cuz you put a camera up. Get off of your high effing horse and come back to reality. It is PUBLIC land you jack wagon. Quit acting entitled. You run the risk of it getting stolen up there. Let me guess, you'd probably come on here and rant for days about that too, if it happened. PUBLIC land is PUBLIC land. You don't own it. Johnny & his family can go there too...
Honestly, at this point... YOU are the "unethical jackass" in this situation. Just my two cents.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

:shock: Now it looks like there is creepy ghost people walking in the woods!


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## Shockgobble (Apr 22, 2010)

duckhunter1096 said:


> I love this! You think that by putting up a camera (or urinating on the ground) you've marked your territory, and now all males have to stay off of it. This is classic UTARD behavior. You aren't entitled to jack squat, just cuz you put a camera up. Get off of your high effing horse and come back to reality. It is PUBLIC land you jack wagon. Quit acting entitled. You run the risk of it getting stolen up there. Let me guess, you'd probably come on here and rant for days about that too, if it happened. PUBLIC land is PUBLIC land. You don't own it. Johnny & his family can go there too...
> Honestly, at this point... YOU are the "unethical jackass" in this situation. Just my two cents.


^^^^^^^^BINGO!!!!!!!!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

So in Utah there's "UTARD" for an unethical jackass.

What is it in Wyoming?


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## Shockgobble (Apr 22, 2010)

Wyner?????


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

duckhunter1096 said:


> I love this! You think that by putting up a camera (or urinating on the ground) you've marked your territory, and now all males have to stay off of it. This is classic UTARD behavior. You aren't entitled to jack squat, just cuz you put a camera up. Get off of your high effing horse and come back to reality. It is PUBLIC land you jack wagon. Quit acting entitled. You run the risk of it getting stolen up there. Let me guess, you'd probably come on here and rant for days about that too, if it happened. PUBLIC land is PUBLIC land. You don't own it. Johnny & his family can go there too...
> Honestly, at this point... YOU are the "unethical jackass" in this situation. Just my two cents.


What is unethical is the fact that that state requires that if you take money from someone to "guide" them on state lands for the purpose of hunting big game, you are required to be licensed by the state. So, jack wagon, you're assuming that I'm feeling entitled to something, I am certainly entitled to the experience of hunting game on public land without having to compete against someone who isn't following the law. You bet your butt I'm entitled to that! Marking my territory? Not with a camera, ten gallons of piss, or even the tree stands that I put up in there....nope. The sweat, the time I spend picking up after dinks from Colorado, Nevada, and California dumping their beer cans and water bottles and people who use the term Utard that really piss me off when my oldest son has brain damage....yeah, I'm kind of invested in that chunk of land as is my family even though its PUBLIC.

Also, I'm pretty sure I made it clear I wasn't making a "who can and can't go into where" type of claim on anything. I simply wanted to find out who this guy is so I can have a good long talk with him. Or a short one is he's not on the up and up. That simple. Take your personal insults somewhere else or read the entire thread.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> So in Utah there's "UTARD" for an unethical jackass.
> 
> What is it in Wyoming?


Isn't the answer either "Utahn" or "Coloradan" if a Wyo resident sees fit to label someone in this manner?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Guide or not, licensed or not, is there any kind of permit required to walk through public lands, put cameras up, or frequent a location? I'm still not sure what the unethical behavior is here. Say he is an unlicensed guide. He is not hunting in the pictures. He doesn't have a sport with him. He isn't poaching. That is an entirely different issue. 

Is hiking on public lands unethical? Seriously. I'm not criticizing your opinion. Just trying to understand it.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

I didn't mean to say that klbzdad was doing anything wrong. Like I said I don't know the whole story. He has his reason for thinking the way he does. I have ran into and experienced first hand how bad some guides can be when it comes to finding a big buck or bull for their clients. That being said not all guides are bad. If this guy in the picture really is a guide he probably will not last unless he changes his ways. The big bucks and bulls don't get big by being dumb.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

If the guy is just out taking his family in the woods more power to him. Hope he is enjoying his time. I 'm pretty sure the animal your after is still around. He probably just changed the way it is going about things.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

GaryFish said:


> > Not trying to debate who has the right to go where, just want to discuss what his intentions are so I can go to plan "B" and if that's the case, let him know he's an unethical jackass and then I'll get my gear out of there ASAP and sadly let him ruin what has been a great Honey Hole for years.
> 
> 
> I'm curious here - what is he doing that would make him an "unethical jackass?"


Rule R156-79. Hunting Guides and Outfitters Licensing Act Rule

Especially R156-79-502-2 Unprofessional Conduct.....read it for yourself.

I didn't post this to debate what he is doing wrong or the public access issue. Anyone who knows what I'm about knows I'm a staunch member of UWC and supporter of the NAM so public access isn't the issue. Its a guy doing the wrong thing and ruining this for someone that works hard and if he's causing undue pressure on these animals for the sake of a buck, it doesn't just cause stress on the animals in my little corner, they aren't going into other places where other hunters are anticipating big bulls and bucks to show up in just over a month either. If I follow the law, so should every other guy and gal in the woods with the same intent that the rest of us have.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> > So in Utah there's "UTARD" for an unethical jackass.
> ...


No, no, no....what is the Wyoming equivalent of a UTARD? a WYOTARD? a GOOBER?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Also, there is nowhere to "hike" to in this area. Its a dead end. There's no picnic tables, campsites, warm fuzzy waterfalls, or hospitable fun places for the kids to play and hang out. Where they are headed is hell and that is why there are trophy animals using the area. This is the only time his family has gone in with his except for a couple of times with his boys. If he wasn't in there three times a week, it wouldn't be that bad either, but to those who know how trophy animals react to human pressure, it only take one encounter and they are done. So, why is this guy in and out so much, and why the family train? That's what I want to know. And I want to know if he's doing what he's supposed to be doing to maintain his licensing because if he isn't, that is a debate I'm more than willing to have because he is then breaking the law.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

klbzdad said:


> Rule R156-79. Hunting Guides and Outfitters Licensing Act Rule
> 
> "Especially R156-79-502-2 Unprofessional Conduct.....read it for yourself."


Not trying to rain on your parade, but this law applies when you are actively engaged in hunting big game and has nothing to do with scouting. Unless you have a special tag and can hunt right now and are actively pursuing game he is probably not doing anything wrong. It may not be ethical or make you happy, but it is not against the law unless there is more to the story. These laws of Unprofessional Conduct only apply to guides so if he is not one then these laws don't apply to him.

If is messing with your camera like you said then that is wrong.


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> > wyogoob said:
> ...


Wyomoron?


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Maybe he has a pot farm there -Ov-


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

OK. So I read your link. The applicable point you suggest would be:



> "Unprofessional conduct" includes:
> 
> (1) engaging in fraud in advertising or soliciting hunting guide or outfitter services to the public;
> 
> (2) intentionally obstructing or hindering or attempting to obstruct or hinder lawful hunting by a person who is not a client or an employee of the licensee;


Under part 2? Is he hindering a lawful hunt for someone else by hiking in an area when there is not a hunt currently going on? Even by the biggest legal stretch, I don't see it. But that is just me. Is there another section I'm not seeing here?


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

The guy needs to being doing more than just going in there hiking to be breaking the law otherwise a lot more people would be in trouble for this. I know plenty of people who watch a buck or bull they're after 3 or more times a week.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm confused...


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> I'm confused...


Me too. That looks like *Bax**... :?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> I'm confused...


Hello confused, I'm dazed.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Dazed and Confuzed. Gotta go listen to Zeplin now.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> No, no, no....what is the Wyoming equivalent of a UTARD? a WYOTARD?


Isn't a WYOTARD what male dancers wear?

How about Wydiot?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

sawsman said:


> InvaderZim said:
> 
> 
> > I'm confused...
> ...


Before or after the Photoshop job?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Have you taken the guide and outfitter's course? Yeah, I highly recommend it for those who defend people who claim to be "guides". 

Come opening morning, if this gentleman puts a hunter in there and he isn't licensed as a guide, he has broken the law. I'd rather talk to him now. If he's on the up and up, maybe he needs to know what I know, maybe we make this dully beneficial, and if not.....wind chimes and dog poop.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

I can say yes I have read and know the guide laws. I have also enforced them. From first hand experience I can say you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to the laws unless there is more to the story and he is not licensed.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> > No, no, no....what is the Wyoming equivalent of a UTARD? a WYOTARD?
> ...


That's good, that's good. Anything with two syllables?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

As far as legalities go, isn't it illegal to have cameras up in Utah so far ahead of the season?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

So have I. He will have violated the law if he is NOT licensed and puts a hunter in a stand after taking $100.00 or more for his services. He is also in violation of the standards of ethics and conduct taught in the course by interfering with a non client.....THAT is why licensed guides generally don't like to guide on public land when they discover or are aware that there are public land hunters in mass in an area they might take a client. That is why I am suspicious he isn't licensed. They also have many other requirements such and insurance and other licensing requirements that have to be met. Regardless, I've made two of my cameras obvious to humans, and he either had one of his kids smear tree sap on the lens or didn't stop him from doing it. What does that tell you about what he's teaching his kids about sportsmanship?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Huge29 said:


> As far as legalities go, isn't it illegal to have cameras up in Utah so far ahead of the season?


No, there is no law against it unless you are using the photos for commercial purposes and then you are required to obtain a permit from the forest service. AND, in this instance, if he is using his camera to show a client the potential of quality animals, he is also required to obtain that permit from the forest service. I'd bet $50.00 he doesn't have that permit either.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

And what if he isn't a guide? 

What makes you believe he is a guide?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Uh...that looks like prime fall mushroom habitat. 

Do you find Boletes there?

Any coordinates?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

First talk of a weed patch, and now looking for some mushrooms? Sheesh Goob.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

Klbzdad if he is in there 2-3 times a week it sounds like he is putting in more miles, sweat/blood, time (maybe picking up trash too) and you should withdraw as the hunter who is "less invested".

He is probably saying "I'd like to crap on the idiots car (probably some dumb guide scouting for clients) who has set cameras up again all over my honey hole of 20 years!"

I hope you get 100 photos of a total hog and on opening day that little girl drops it right in front of your camera with her dad smiling from ear to ear for her in the back ground.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

The couple of interactions I've had with him before he started going in to this particular little area, we had talked about a particular seven year old bull called The Emperor. He said, "Oh, I know the one you're talking about, I have a hunter from Colorado for that bull, he'll be here a week late and I hope to get him on the bull as soon as he gets here." Sure as a fart during a case of diareah, a week into the hunt a fancy truck with Colorado plates came a running by and in the back seat was this guy. We watched them get out and up into the trees they all went. They didn't take the bull because he's back again this year, but given that it takes some guys 15 or more years to draw the Panguitch unit, if this guy isn't legit, I'm not the only one who's "turf" he's crapping on....NOW, do you get my drift? My expectation is reasonable....if I have to follow the law, so should everyone else.

Mushrooms, YES, they grow but not on this side, they grow on the Northeasterly side of the trees and they get quite large. I'm not brave enough to pluck and eat them though.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> First talk of a weed patch, and now looking for some mushrooms? Sheesh Goob.


I'm thinking those people are mycologists. Look at those eyes, how intently they are keying on the ground before them........whoops, wrong picture.....sorry 'bout that. 

I use to take my family on long autumn walks through the Utah woods hunting mushrooms. Once in awhile I would run into a bowhunter and blow his stand. But I would apologize, give him a couple a mushrooms, and then help him with his bugling technique......and I would rub pine tar on his bugle if he talked to me poorly. jk


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

What makes you think he is not a registered guide?

And, if he is a registered guide, I'm still not sure what is unethical about him being in this honey hole.

I know in other states, guides have assigned areas, and must keep within those areas. But Utah does not do that. 

You may not like it. And it may chase the critters away from your spot you were hoping to take a client, but from the pictures you have shown us, and from the information we know and from what you have described, what is happening is not illegal or unethical in my opinion. 

And technically speaking, leaving a trail cam strapped to a tree on public lands is the only illegal thing I could see here, and that is because leaving pretty much anything behind, beer cans, candy wrappers, a geocache, or a trail cam could be considered littering.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Wait a minute, the guy has Colorado plates. That changes everything.

Just kiddin' I'll go away


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

10000ft. said:


> Klbzdad if he is in there 2-3 times a week it sounds like he is putting in more miles, sweat/blood, time (maybe picking up trash too) and you should withdraw as the hunter who is "less invested".
> 
> He is probably saying "I'd like to crap on the idiots car (probably some dumb guide scouting for clients) who has set cameras up again all over my honey hole of 20 years!"
> 
> I hope you get 100 photos of a total hog and on opening day that little girl drops it right in front of your camera with her dad smiling from ear to ear for her in the back ground.


I don't need any more horse's butt comments. If that little girl has a tag....GREAT! I'll contribute and be the first to pull my stuff out!!!! Kids always trump ego and bravado for someone who cares. I'm up there a hell of a lot more than anyone is which is why I've asked for help trying to identify him. Another reason I'd really like to talk to him. But if he's trying to help his little girl fill a tag, he's not doing her any favors. I do have pictures of several hogs in this area. But if he doesn't chill out, neither one of us, or in his case, his client or as you suggest, his daughter/wife/boys/himself won't be seeing anything and that is a travesty I'm trying to avoid.

So, if you don't know who it is, move along. I didn't say, "Any horse's butt out there wanna insult me tonight?" If I wanted that, I'd invite ya'll over and see how many thought they'd like to actually follow through with it once they got here. My guess, none.

Now, if anyone doesn't know who this is, fine. That's all I'm looking for. I'll even give you a hint and tell you its near Cedar Breaks Monument above Cedar City.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

The way the laws are written you do not have to have a guide license to guide on private land. If you only want to guide on private land you do not need one. Here is the law, but I have taken some stuff out so you don't have to read that which doesn't apply.

58-79-102. Definitions.
In addition to the definitions in Section 58-1-102, as used in this chapter: 
(
(2) "Compensation" means anything of economic value in excess of $100 that is 
paid, loaned, granted, given, donated, or transferred to a hunting guide or 
outfitter for or in consideration of personal services, materials, or 
property. 
(3) "Hunting" means to locate, pursue, chase, catch, capture, trap, or kill 
wildlife. 
(4) "Hunting guide" means an individual who: 
(a) offers or provides hunting guide services on* public lands for 
compensation*; and 
(b) is retained for compensation by an outfitter. 
(5) "Hunting guide services" means to guide, lead, or assist an individual in 
hunting wildlife. 
(6) "Outfitter" means an individual who offers or provides outfitting or hunting 
guide services for compensation to another individual for hunting wildlife *on 
public lands.*

(8) (a) "Public lands" means any lands owned by the United States, the state, 
or a political subdivision or independent entity of the state that are 
open to the public for purposes of engaging in a wildlife related 
activity. 
(b) "Public lands" does not include lands owned by the United States, the 
state, or a political subdivision or independent entity of the state 
that are included in a cooperative wildlife management unit under 
Subsection 23-23-7(5) so long as the guiding and outfitting services 
furnished by the cooperative wildlife management unit are limited to 
hunting species of wildlife specifically authorized by the Division of 
Wildlife Resources in the unit's management plan.

If he is licensed then he still hasn't violated the law, because there is not hunt going on. You need to be engaged in hunting and have him harass you or the game you are chasing.

If you do find his name here is a link to see if he is licensed. DOPL not DWR is the agency that deals with hunting guides.

https://secure.utah.gov/llv/search/index.html

I'm pretty sure when you call them they will tell you his actions of walking through the woods are not in violation of the administrative law you say he is violation.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not trying to insult here. I really am just trying to understand your issue. Really. But when you come on calling unknown people unethical jackasses because they are in your honey hole, accuse them of unethical behavior because they are there, and then say that you'll be the first to hang wind chimes and dog crap all over their hunting spot, it is a bit off kilter. That's all. 

Thanks for helping me understand where you are coming from and your concerns. Not knowing the whole story, just what you have described here, I personally don't see the problem here. But that is just me.

I don't know the guy.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

GaryFish said:


> I'm not trying to insult here. I really am just trying to understand your issue. Really. But when you come on calling unknown people unethical jackasses because they are in your honey hole, accuse them of unethical behavior because they are there, and then say that you'll be the first to hang wind chimes and dog crap all over their hunting spot, it is a bit off kilter. That's all.
> 
> Thanks for helping me understand where you are coming from and your concerns. Not knowing the whole story, just what you have described here, I personally don't see the problem here. But that is just me.
> 
> I don't know the guy.


+1

So far not having heard his side it sounds more like you are jealous he is hunting where you have hunted for a long time and he is after the animal you want.

I truly hope it isn't that way.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

I dare say they had an early 'shroom crop out there...


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Huge29 said:


> As far as legalities go, isn't it illegal to have cameras up in Utah so far ahead of the season?


You might remember this Huge but 2 or 3 years ago the DWR came out with an article that said there was a time limit on National Forests regarding trail cams and when they could and could not be put up in relation to time from the hunt but they corrected the article due to a misunderstanding of the Forest Service rule and therefore there is no time constraints, meaning how long before the hunt, you can use trail cams.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Zim......do you want me to pick you some? I won't eat them. The raspberries are about to come in too. Millions of them!


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

From this site:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/wr/0709trailca ... ilcams.pdf
Page 8.

Before setting up a trail camera, please remember the following:
Trail cameras are not allowed in areas that are designated as wilderness areas.
Before setting a camera up on an area managed by the U.S. Forest Service or the Bureau of Land Management, you may be required to obtain a permit.
Please contact the nearest U.S. Forest Service or BLM office to learn the rules for the area you're interested in placing your camera on.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

If you didn't want everyone's opinion you sure picked the wrong place to post about this. Are you getting your feelings hurt?? It sure seems like it 

If you don't like the possibility of getting that public land spot getting blown out, I suggest you go lease some private land and find a honey hole there, otherwise realize that’s the way of the game on public land. Coming on here and whining and crying about it is not going to change your situation. 

You know you could have chosen to put in the extra effort to get up to that spot and talk to him when he would be there instead of coming on here. Doesn’t your fancy camera give you an idea of the time and date interval when he is visiting that spot???

Weren't you also the poster who whining about out of state hunters/guides over on the ground blinds post over in the archery section??? Sounds like you love to grind that axe doesn’t it; I can understand that because I wish they would ban all the guides! 

Your whole attitude in this thread among others leads myself, and judging from the responses, a lot of others to believe you are a in fact butt hurt another “possible” guide has found you spot!!!!

And no I won’t be scared to tell you that to your face in person.

And if I did in fact know that guy I wouldn't waste his time by giving you his contact info.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

someone "GOOBED" up this post, so I reposted.......


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

So I'm confused...


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm going to pick some mushrooms for you.....that'll fix it. I'll make you brownies. Very special brownies.

Never mind on the request for help, I think dude has been identified. I'll know if he's licensed by this time tomorrow. Thanks anyway.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

What tag do you have anyways? Muzzy? Archery?


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Coulda shoulda woulda. :OX/: 

Honestly if hunting didn't suck elk and deer alike then you could care less about a man appearing in your trail cam. It's that a good hunting spot is such a rare find you covet it. I totally get it. I used to be the friendliest guy around on the mtn. Now I'm p issed if you drive passed my camp during the hunt.  


My experience I'm sure plenty can back me up on this is. Big bulls tend to change habits when the rut gets closer. So your elk honey hole is not likely to be once the hunt comes along anyway.

Your trail cam pics clearly identify a habitat issue not an encroachment issue. I can see there is not much browse for that man and his kids to hide behind. Or what little cover that is there is old and provides little concealment value. In time (decades) habitat restoration efforts will pay off and hunters will be able to pass within feet of you and you will never know they where there. :mrgreen:


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Whoops, looks like I hit the "edit" button instead of the quote button on klbzdad's reply to Mojo1. Sorry about that. I can't get it back. 

klbzdad, can you repost the reply. It is notable.

I owe ya one.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Mojo1 said:


> If you didn't want everyone's opinion you sure picked the wrong place to post about this. Are you getting your feelings hurt?? It sure seems like it
> 
> If you don't like the possibility of getting that public land spot getting blown out, I suggest you go lease some private land and find a honey hole there, otherwise realize that's the way of the game on public land. Coming on here and whining and crying about it is not going to change your situation.
> 
> ...


You know....I don't have a problem with guides. I was one for a period of time until I realized snot nosed little brats with more money than sense and unrealistic expectations could buy their pay past you and I and after a few run ins with people who called themselves "guides" but clearly weren't setting bad precedent on public land, I stopped with my little pipe dream and hopped back into the fray with everyone else.

As far as coming on here asking for opinion, I didn't ask. Feelings hurt....far from it. If anything, I'm embarrassed for a select few who have to resort to the bull crap here we have to see on MM. Its one thing to give someone a hard time for missing a once in a lifetime shot on a big bull elk, its another assuming something about someone just because he asked a simple question.

I thought higher of the quality of folks on UWN.....I apparently was wrong.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> someone "GOOBED" up this post, so I reposted.......


yeah, yeah, wish I had a nickel for every time I heard that.

Thanks for reposting. I hit the "edit" button instead of the "quote" button. Sorry 'bout that.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Iron Bear said:


> Coulda shoulda woulda. :OX/:
> 
> Honestly if hunting didn't suck elk and deer alike then you could care less about a man appearing in your trail cam. It's that a good hunting spot is such a rare find you covet it. I totally get it. I used to be the friendliest guy around on the mtn. Now I'm p issed if you drive passed my camp during the hunt.
> 
> ...


LETS DO IT! Where's that dixie chain and a D9?!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

.....................................................................

As far as coming on here asking for opinion, I didn't ask. Feelings hurt....far from it. If anything, I'm embarrassed for a select few who have to resort to the bull crap here we have to see on MM. Its one thing to give someone a hard time for missing a once in a lifetime shot on a big bull elk, its another assuming something about someone just because he asked a simple question.

In my opinion this is not asking a simple question:
So, for three years running there's a guy who says he has been trying to put a hunter on a couple of my favorite bulls and claims to be a "guide". This year he is **** and stinking up my honey hole with a train of traffic and I'm bound and determined to figure out what his deal is, where these "hunters" are coming from, and if he's licensed to outfit or guide in Utah. I've invested a lot of time and money on this public land and for the quality of bulls and bucks to be roaming around there are far better places for him to be setting up paying hunters/customers than on public land against local hunters. So, before I hang wind chimes all over his crappy little tree stand and start leaving bags of dog crap on the hood of his dumpy truck, I figured I'd ask if any of you know who he is and get some background on him before I turn him over to DWR. Since he started going in to my little honey hole, the big bulls and bucks stopped showing up and have moved to other cameras. He's an idiot and something tells me that a licensed guide isn't going to bring a train of human into a place like this where he has to know (six different cameras and two already erected tree stands) that there is already another human going in there to begin with. I don't mind if HE has a tag himself and is going to hunt in there....STOP WITH THE FAMILY HOME EVENING ALREADY....but every time I've ever seen this guy, he's in the back of someone's out of state vehicle or on my trail cameras dinking off. PM me if you have his contact info, or if YOU are him. Thanks!

I thought higher of the quality of folks on UWN.....I apparently was wrong.[/quote]

It's not the argument, but the way it is argued. If you use the approach you used be prepared for the same approach from those that do not hold the same opinion as you.


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## Shockgobble (Apr 22, 2010)

klbzdad said:


> 10000ft. said:
> 
> 
> > Klbzdad if he is in there 2-3 times a week it sounds like he is putting in more miles, sweat/blood, time (maybe picking up trash too) and you should withdraw as the hunter who is "less invested".
> ...


What in the world is wrong with you!!!?????? I don't care how right you think you may be and hell you may be 100% right. But for you to come on here and try to indimidate people by being an internet tough guy????? I would absolutely love to be THAT guy this whole post is about!!!!! All you have done is thrown assumtions about this guy and his family and on and on. You may friend are a coward!
-Chris Pastor


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

I still think it was that *Bax** guy and his mushroom bag... :|


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

sawsman said:


> I still think it was that *Bax** guy and his mushroom bag... :|


Mushroom bag? You are silly J

We all know that I eats every mushroom I find. No need for a bag


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A couple of random comments, of varying seriousness.

1.


wyogoob said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> > wyogoob said:
> ...


Two syllables huh, well, aren't we picky. How about Wy-no?

Oh wait, that one already refers to all the Utahns heading up to Evanston to buy the discounted liquor and smokes. My bad.

2.


Iron Bear said:


> I used to be the friendliest guy around on the mtn. Now I'm p issed if you drive passed my camp during the hunt.


Would you be friendlier to me if I had a deceased mountain lion in the back of my truck?

3.


sawsman said:


> I still think it was that Bax* guy and his mushroom bag... :|


Goob is the only one around here with the shroom bag.  (Sadly Goob, I didn't see a single fungus in the Wasatch this weekend, even with the recent rain.)

4. As for the subject at hand, I can see Klbzdad's point if this dude really is a guide, but it seems that detail is far from proven. It would seem that a less accusatory approach to this guy and some outreach may yield more positive results for all parties in this case, FWIW.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

wyogoob said:


> .....................................................................
> 
> As far as coming on here asking for opinion, I didn't ask. Feelings hurt....far from it. If anything, I'm embarrassed for a select few who have to resort to the bull crap here we have to see on MM. Its one thing to give someone a hard time for missing a once in a lifetime shot on a big bull elk, its another assuming something about someone just because he asked a simple question.
> 
> ...


It's not the argument, but the way it is argued. If you use the approach you used be prepared for the same approach from those that do not hold the same opinion as you.[/quote]

Again, fair enough. I can see your point and agree where my origional post can be taken as me being a bigger turd than the guy stinking up my not so secret spot.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> .....................................................................
> 
> It's not the argument, but the way it is argued. If you use the approach you used be prepared for the same approach from those that do not hold the same opinion as you.


Spot on!!!

I seldom point out or teach things with the kids gloves on, its a military thing! :mrgreen:


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

So, here is a simple question for those actually reading and maybe should be a new thread....In my wondering around this weekend, I drove past one of the roadside fresh water ponds and noticed a bright pink square uphill from that pond. Looking through the binos, someone had put a fresh new mineral block in the game trail. There are no cattle or sheep in this area and water is very limited. 

Is there anything wrong with what this person has done?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

There isn't any law against baiting, contrary to common belief, but could technically be considered leaving personal property on public land. It sounds more and more like your honey hole has a lot of bears getting honey from it.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Hell, I'm a bag of apples kind of guy and I use minerals up until the bulls rub out and then they could care less about salt licks. Its a trick question. And this is miles from any honey holes. Its right next to a well traveled road.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I know they like any kind of salt through the summer, I have heard of them even liking water softener pellets for a good trail camera bait.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I'll play nice here....the salt was moved to the side of the road. You don't put salt uphill from water especially a pond that is utilized by so many different species because the salt will contaminate the water. Best to put it downside from the water or several hundred yards away. 

Water softener baits also help kill cheatgrass and are easy to bury. The smart bulls will dig them up and then walk off with them. Stump Likker on a half rotted log will get the really big bulls to lift the log or chew it in half. Apple flavored Sweetlic Buck and Doe blocks from Cal Ranch are good for both deer and elk and deer will stay on them even after they rub out. In any event, we should all be responsible when putting salt out, it has a lasting effect on the forage and environment where we put it. Proximity to water should be smartly considered. I don't have salt closer than half a mile to any water source. Oh, and you'll notice that you have them trained to come in by the bite marks on any aspen bark in the general area....don't now why they both do, but elk and deer will bit freshly downed aspen trees when they start taking salt.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

Good luck on your hunt. Hope you find the one your after and you can avoid any problems.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Ha, this thread kills me. We have a bunch of ranting and raving going on with a few jokers posting totally off topic posts. Kinda like hecklers in the back of class.

By the way, I found a few Agaricus mushrooms above Mantua last weekend.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> duckhunter1096 said:
> 
> 
> > I love this! You think that by putting up a camera (or urinating on the ground) you've marked your territory, and now all males have to stay off of it. This is classic UTARD behavior. You aren't entitled to jack squat, just cuz you put a camera up. Get off of your high effing horse and come back to reality. It is PUBLIC land you jack wagon. Quit acting entitled. You run the risk of it getting stolen up there. Let me guess, you'd probably come on here and rant for days about that too, if it happened. PUBLIC land is PUBLIC land. You don't own it. Johnny & his family can go there too...
> ...


First, I apologize about the use of the term "Utard"... But I think you know where it comes from. But seriously, the more I read about your posts on this thread, the more upset you seem. But also, the more "entitled" you seem to think you are. KUDOS to you for cleaning up the environment... But still, that doesn't GIVE you that chunk of land, dude. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY MONEY EXCHANGE HANDS? Yeah, the statement "I have a guy coming in from Colorado" makes it sound like he's guiding... But guess what? I have family from out of town that is coming to hunt where I hunt every year... But I'm not guiding them. Are you gonna report me too? I also like the statement you made somewhere through here about "There is no place to hike up there. There are no picnic tables"... When did picnic tables become a pre-requisite to hiking? I guess I've been doing it all wrong for my whole life, as I tend to seek out areas to hike that DO NOT have picnic tables. I still don't see where the unethical part comes in... Sorry. If he's guiding without a license, that's not unethical, it's illegal. Big difference... There are a lot of LEGAL things that can be deemed unethical, depending on your point of view. But if everything about the hunt itself is completely legal as far as season dates, tags, guns... etc... Hunt on. To me... Using trail cams is UNETHICAL... but that's just my take. Using dogs to chase bears & cats up trees is UNETHICAL... But that's just my take. I'm not going to bash those that do it.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

duckhunter1096 said:


> klbzdad said:
> 
> 
> > duckhunter1096 said:
> ...


Again, fair enough. Perspective is an individual thing. And I should have just asked if anyone knew who he was so I could talk to him. My bad. However I still believe that I, you, and everyone else on here is indeed ENTITLED to enjoy public lands without illegal activity. Hindsight is always 20/20 and sucks when you're chewing on shoelaces. Didn't mean to jump anyone's back but didn't ask for people to jump mine either.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

> So, before I hang wind chimes all over his crappy little tree stand and start leaving bags of dog crap on the hood of his dumpy truck, I figured I'd ask if any of you know who he is and get some background on him before I turn him over to DWR. Since he started going in to my little honey hole,





> I don't need any more horse's butt comments.





> I thought higher of the quality of folks on UWN.....I apparently was wrong.


I find your comments funny... and hypocritical, its ok for you to go off but no one to rebuttal you?

I see your frustration, but your stretching it out with assumptions and you know what assuming does... makes an a$$ out of you... good luck with your hunt, don't let inches ruin it for you.


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## hotspot (Jan 12, 2009)

It's me! Welcome to public land! I have to walk through the direction of your secret hunting spot to get to my pot growing area. Btw, elk are really eating up my plants! Might have to take a few out to save the grow! 










Sarcasm here


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Dude! Elk eating the lettuce? Yur harshin' my mellow man.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

All of this because one person isn't willing to pack up, and know when to find a new area? Instead we are looking at trail pics and trying to figure out who the "mystery" person is.. I am almost certain there are thousands of acres of land that needs exploring.. its not the only place to hunt.. everyone that has hunted on public land has had to deal with this issue one time or another.. get over yourself, know when to move on and stop making excuses for yourself.. everyone understands how important this tag is, but the world does not revolve around you and your honey hole.. there are many more "honey holes" out there.. come on..


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Yeah.....read the thread. I'm about done eating crow over this. I've already admitted to putting my foot in my mouth with the first post. I'm going to go out on a limb here......if I were to offer a $1000.00 reward for information simply leading to a conversation with this guy, I bet the lectures would be pointed in a different direction. So, for the last **** time, I'm not packing up a **** thing. My stuff stays and when his client pulls out because he's tainted it, I'll give it a couple of weeks and go back in to my camera and see what's going on then. If a conversation comes before then and we both benefit from that conversation, great! That would be the ultimate outcome on a public chunk of prime hunting land. I may be new to the forum this year, but I'm not new to the sport and not new to public land hunting for crying out loud.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I talked to him yesterday and he's miffed you're in half of his trail cam pics. He says he wants to talk. :lol:

Maybe I missed them somewhere else. Post up some pics of these huge bucks and bulls in the area.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Print the picture of him and his kids and post a sign where you park saying you wish to have a civil talk with him at the earliest possible time and leave him your phone number hanging down below the sign that he can just tear off and put in his pocket.
If he is going in there three or four times p/week, he will have to see your sign.
My take is he is hiking to the end of the area and glassing down into the hellish areas you have talked about. And by doing this he is establishing patterns of some big boys he is seeing. He is so very excited to see these very big animals and wants to make sure he has their patterns down pat before the hunt begins. He takes his kids in to see the quality of horned animals he is seeing.
Next you will see him with some of his work buddies, of course they will have sworn to him they will not go in there during any hunt ever and they will never tell anyone about the spot.
Just my 2 cents. I wish I had a pan full of morels right now.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Actually, this thread has gone very well considering how it started. I commend everyone on here for the civility.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Iron Bear said:


> I talked to him yesterday and he's miffed you're in half of his trail cam pics. He says he wants to talk. :lol:
> 
> Maybe I missed them somewhere else. Post up some pics of these huge bucks and bulls in the area.





Bears Butt said:


> Actually, this thread has gone very well considering how it started. I commend everyone on here for the civility.


And now enter my fellow clowns....I guess I deserve this. You're off you're rocker if you think I'm going to post the photos of the animals now. Not after I've spent five years telling everyone there aren't any trophy animals up here and we need a buck to doe ratio of 1000/100 to get the big ones from the 60's and 70's back!


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

I feel your frustation klbzdad bro. Thats the killer part of Public Land hunting.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

pheaz said:


> I feel your frustation klbzdad bro. Thats the killer part of Public Land hunting.


Thanks....not my first rodeo. We all have to contend with one another. Once I get the taste of my shoes out of my mouth, I'm going to head up tomorrow and this weekend for some quality time sitting on a ridge in a hammock with my spotting scope. I can head him off in either direction he leaves from there and talk to him. We'll get it worked out if he shows. I've pretty much decided to leave my stuff, in fact, I've been talked into putting up another treestand because of the way the thermals work through and across the lava fields and this one will be set back in the trees a couple of yards but still pretty obvious to anyone walking into the honey hole. And to this guy's defense, he's walking into the area but not once has he climbed into my stands, messed with the wallow, walked into the salt lick, or shown up on the actual honey hole cameras. The big animals have, however, stopped frequenting which is not normal but neither is the weather......a conversation will benefit the both of us. Public land requires that hunters work together to preserve experiences. I just want to remind him of his responsibilities if he is indeed acting as a guide. I would think others who do their due diligence to maintain their licensing would expect that he do the same. Thanks again.


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## wan2bhunting (Jun 11, 2012)

You must be new to hunting on public land cause the key word there is PUBLIC!!! If you're going to invest so much money into something do it on private land so we don't have to hear you throw a fit! PUBLIC LAND!! Want me to say it again? PUBLIC LAND! Means even I could go there! Hey maybe I will!


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

wan2bhunting said:


> You must be new to hunting on public land cause the key word there is PUBLIC!!! If you're going to invest so much money into something do it on private land so we don't have to hear you throw a fit! PUBLIC LAND!! Want me to say it again? PUBLIC LAND! Means even I could go there! Hey maybe I will!


Uhmmmm, I'm going to take the high road here and not call you a boneheaded moron for not reading the entire thread.....and I'm going to stick to the high road here and go ahead and say that you're more than welcome in my honey hole if you can find it. Have a nice day!
:roll:


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

So why is "Wan" allowed there, but the guy on the camera with his family isn't? Still confused...

I'm going to be on that High Road with you, and not call you a jerkoff.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

You guys are 12 year old girls for continuing to not read this entire thread.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

duckhunter1096 said:


> So why is "Wan" allowed there, but the guy on the camera with his family isn't? Still confused...
> 
> I'm going to be on that High Road with you, and not call you a jerkoff.


 -_O-


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

duckhunter1096 said:


> So why is "Wan" allowed there, but the guy on the camera with his family isn't? Still confused...
> 
> I'm going to be on that High Road with you, and not call you a jerkoff.


Cute....you're welcome there too if you can find it. I'm sure I'll stay on the high road by saying a certain family member of your's would love to see you anyway. Just sayin'....


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Really, eleven pages, really? Come on you guys, nobody is so stupid as to have the point of view blabbered by* Klbzdad*


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

BPturkeys said:


> Really, eleven pages, really? Come on you guys, nobody is so stupid as to have the point of view blabbered by* Klbzdad*


*Didn't read the thread, did you? For the last time, bird brains...I had apologized for the original post and didn't mean for anything other than to find out who the guy was and to be able to work it out. I clearly get the "this land in my land, this land is your land" diatribe and have gotten it all along. When I find I've encroached into another hunter's little corner of paradise, I'M THE ONE that backs out, I don't expect the guy that was there first to do it but again, not what I was looking for despite my lousy original post. So, for the final time. My original post sucked butt, I was wrong to come across the way that I did, and shouldn't have called him a jackass. However, for those who don't bother to read past there, save your holier than thou bologna for someone else or PM me where I'm more than happy to hash and debate your ignorant insults. Have a great day.*

Decided I better make it big and bold for some of you to be able to read.....I know that can be difficult for some.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

OK, klbzdad has apologized several times. I really don't know what more he can say. He brings up a good point: the whole thread should be read before we flame him any further. So we've all had 48 hours to beat him up and few are reading the whole thread. 

That's enough. I'm locking this thing.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Good idea. Oops!


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