# MMs on WMAs poll



## Guest (Apr 18, 2011)

just tryin to get an idea of how everyone feels


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Airboats aren't allow in our WMAs. Of course, the real problem with doing a survey here is sampling bias. You might as well wait for the Division survey, or rewrite this one so it makes more sense.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2011)

are you ever happy? seriously you are the most negative person i have ever run across. this is no different then all the "surveys" you conduct or that the DWR sends out. they cant get accurate information either unless they send them to EVERYONE who registered in the HIP program. all im trying to do is get an idea of what people think... 

how does this one make no sense? i believe the question and answers are pretty straight and to the point. 

airboats are not allowed "inside" the WMAs, but they are launched on the boundaries, they hunt the border of the refuges, you claim they create more crowding with other hunters and they are something else you are just mad about. you also claim they harass the ducks that do spend a lot of their time inside WMAs. their very existance p***es you off.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Maybe you should have had another option of: Just allow mud motors and not air boats....just a suggestion.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Yeah, in the interest of accuracy, it's probably best to leave airboats out of any polls concerning boat use on WMA's. Airboats are not allowed on WMA's currently and the Airboat Association is not asking to be allowed on the WMA's in the future. 
R


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Awesome! so far its 89% approve of MM use and 11% dont care either way and 0% appose MM's.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

The whole AB comment is simple misdirection on John's part, same for his bias comment, he is getting shelled and he is looking for any out, face it guys he is gonna keep pushing his agenda reguardless of any support!


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2011)

paddler, wheres your army? get them on here to vote so we can get an accurate idea!!!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Mojo1 said:


> The whole AB comment is simple misdirection on John's part, same for his bias comment, he is getting shelled and he is looking for any out, face it guys he is gonna keep pushing his agenda reguardless of any support!


Nope, not misdirection, Jimmy. I just like to be accurate. Since ABs aren't allowed on our WMAs, their inclusion in a poll is irrelevant.

As I said above, any poll on these forums is subject to sampling bias, and is therefore statistically unsound. No big thing, do what you like. As I have said many times, it's the Division's data that counts, not any data generated on a forum frequented mostly by MM owners.

In my poll on opening day of the 2009 general duck season, which was unbiased, conducted at FB, at least 90% of hunters I queried supported the idea of more motorless access. Here's a link to the website, cruise around it and see iif there's anything you like.  I haven't done much on it lately, but will continue to press for better hunting for the majority of Utah's waterfowlers, less bird disturbance, and reducing the impact on habitat due to MM use:

http://sharethemarsh.com/


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

I voted yes because I like to come on this website and read how MM guys motor 4 miles out and set up 50 yards from each other.


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## Jsw (Dec 5, 2010)

I don't really care either way at this point because I don't own a MM (yet) not sure I ever will but would like the opportunity to own one if I want. I actually want a boat but the wife doesnt see it the way I do haha. I walk in everywhere I hunt but I tend to stay away from the MM guys just cause it's hard to beat them to the good spots. I find enough good hunting in places that MM wouldn't stand a chance of getting in there even if they wanted to, there is also times when I have had slow days then a MM comes cruising by and spooks up some birds and I dropped a few so there are times when it's beneficial that they are around. Most of the places I hunt I walk 2 mi one way then 2 mi back to get away from all of the sky busting and crowds I couldn't imagine how many people there would be if all the hunters had to walk I would have to spend half the day walking just to have some privacy. I think there is actually many places to go to get away from boaters there is places at every WMA that boats can't get into unless they walk 1/2 mi from there boat (and no I will not share where these places are) to set up which alot of guys I've seen if they can't hunt from the boat they wouldn't do it. So in closing let's not wish to many of the boaters to have to go on foot cause that's way more than 3's company just my opinion about it.

P.s. Still counting days till next year


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

puddler213 said:


> In my poll on opening day of the 2009 general duck season, which was unbiased, conducted at FB, at least 90% of hunters I queried supported the idea of more motorless access. Here's a link to the website, cruise around it and see iif there's anything you like.  I haven't done much on it lately, but will continue to press for better hunting for the majority of Utah's waterfowlers, less bird disturbance, and reducing the impact on habitat due to MM use:
> 
> http://sharethemarsh.com/


 -_O- -_O- in YOUR poll! which was unbiased? i highly doubt that. where in the hell did you stand to gather this information?? the center dike parking lot?? no one ever talked to me about this and i was back to the launch, with 5 guys' limits by 10:00 a.m. you survey is no different then mine is on here.

puddler, you hunted 7 days during last seasons waterfowl hunt. you should be embarrassed about that. you dont even spend enough time in the marsh to know if duck hunting sucks or not... maybe you should spend more time in the marsh actually hunting ducks instead of standing in the center dike parking lot on opening morning gathering "unbiased" information for YOUR surveys.

i love all these numbers and percentages you come up with on studies and surveys you have conducted yourself... opinions are not facts :lol:


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## travis madden (Sep 29, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> puddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > In my poll on opening day of the 2009 general duck season, which was unbiased, conducted at FB, at least 90% of hunters I queried supported the idea of more motorless access. Here's a link to the website, cruise around it and see iif there's anything you like.  I haven't done much on it lately, but will continue to press for better hunting for the majority of Utah's waterfowlers, less bird disturbance, and reducing the impact on habitat due to MM use:
> ...


+1 Couldnt agree more..what a joke :roll:


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> puddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > In my poll on opening day of the 2009 general duck season, which was unbiased, conducted at FB, at least 90% of hunters I queried supported the idea of more motorless access. Here's a link to the website, cruise around it and see iif there's anything you like.  I haven't done much on it lately, but will continue to press for better hunting for the majority of Utah's waterfowlers, less bird disturbance, and reducing the impact on habitat due to MM use:
> ...


Because any body coming out of there with a boat in tow did not get stopped.


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## Duckinator II (Nov 23, 2010)

I am in favor of MM in side the dikes of WMA.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

puddler213 said:


> Here's a link to the website, cruise around it and see iif there's anything you like.  I haven't done much on it lately, but will continue to press for better hunting for the majority of Utah's waterfowlers, less bird disturbance, and reducing the impact on habitat due to MM use:
> 
> http://sharethemarsh.com/


i find the title to your website interesting. "SHARE THE MARSH" yet that ENTIRE web page is designed to shut down the marsh to a certain group of people. its almost as if you think they have an unfair advantage over you and you are trying to level the playing field. if you dont like the sound of MMs in 'your' marsh, do what you did last year and DONT GO AT ALL.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I talked to all the hunters I could flag down that day. Several hundred, in fact, and did not select those towing or not towing a boat. Interestingly, the vast majority of boat users were in favor of more motorless areas. My sampling bias was, I think, less than this poll, as this forum is over represented by motorheads.

Let's compromise.  I'm in favor of MM on our WMAs, in all units over 1000 acres. They should be banned from all units under 1000 acres, or in units where the distance from the launch the farthest open water is less than 3 miles.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> Let's compromise.  I'm in favor of MM on our WMAs, in all units over 1000 acres. They should be banned from all units under 1000 acres, or in units where the distance from the launch the farthest open water is less than 3 miles.


So your saying I could not hunt my spots because they are less them 3 miles.Bull ****. We don't have long runs here in utah.two place are 4 miles out. That the longest runs I make.


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

I do think that MM's do have an impact on the WMAs. I also think that paddling, walking, biking driving out and shooting shotguns in the WMAs also has an impact. Just being out in the WMAs will impact them. We have all seen what center dike looks like littered with trash. 

If the DWR wants to look at restricting access in the WMAs then they will need to look at all aspects of use, not just MMs. ONLY when there is a definitive, unbiased study done, should any restrictions be made. When that happens, I am sure it will affect EVERYONE that enjoys waterfowl hunting.

I own a boat and bought it to be able to take my aging father out with me hunting. We have had the best hunts of our lives the last couple years out of my boat. My dad can not walk far in fact he has a handicap sticker for his car. The ONLY way we could have had these hunts is with my boat. In fact, it was a couple guys on this forum that took me out in their boats for the first time and I realized how much better the hunting and experience is. 

Last year we shot our first banded goose out of my boat. This year my dad shot a swan out of my boat, his first one in 25 years. I hope I have may more years hunting with my dad!


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## Tyson Rasmussen (Sep 28, 2009)

Jeff i couldn't agree more. Jon if you think im going to give up the quality hunting experience of being able to hunt with my father, nephew's, cousins or friends for that fact, I hope you are loaded for bear!! I will fight you tooth and nail to keep Utah some of the most enjoyable waterfowling out there.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

puddler213 said:


> I talked to all the hunters I could flag down that day. Several hundred, in fact, and did not select those towing or not towing a boat. Interestingly, the vast majority of boat users were in favor of more motorless areas. My sampling bias was, I think, less than this poll, as this forum is over represented by motorheads.
> 
> Let's compromise.  I'm in favor of MM on our WMAs, in all units over 1000 acres. They should be banned from all units under 1000 acres, or in units where the distance from the launch the farthest open water is less than 3 miles.


well i know for a fact you didnt talk to me and get my opinion or the opinions of the 4 other guys i was with. i dont think you sampled everyones opinion. i think you were very selective. i know i and many others pulling boats would have told you to get bent if you would have suggested closing down some of our hunting areas. face it, your out numbered on opinions in favor of MMs. im not willing to compromise. thats still really a win for you and your grease ball followers and a loose for me and fellow motor heads. like i have said before, your opinions are not facts. just because you talked to a few common foot soldiers on opening morning, doesnt mean that a MAJORITY of the duck hunters in utah agree with you. EVEN IF THEY DONT OWN A BOAT. BTW, how was duck hunting that morning? ...or did you even go? go ahead and push the DWR to send out a survey to everyone registered in the HIP program for 2010. their questionaire should resemble something like mine for the MM questions. they are short, straight forward and are worded that even Klark can understand the questions.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Maybe you missed something, Kill. I interviewed hunters as they left FBWMA from about 9:00am till 1:00pm opening day of 2009. Fully 95% of all hunters voiced support of more motorless access. I hunted grouse on the duck opener last year. Killed a limit, too, and didn't have to put up with the craziness of the Utah opener. As far as surveys go, let's just wait to see what the Division's shows. It will be statistically valid.

What's amazing is that, as one of you guys said, MM use has exploded since 2006 (actually since about 1998 or so). However, hunter success has dropped during the same time period. In fact, I'm thinking that last year was the lowest success in a long time. IIRC, the long term average is ~1.3 ducks/hunter-day. When I talked to Tom mid-season last year, we were at ~0.8 ducks/hunter-day. But that's what happens when the GSL is low and you blow birds off our WMAs with MMs. If MMs were the end all to duck hunting, don't you think that hunter success should increase with increasing MM use? I guess you'd be wrong about that, just as you are wrong if you think that MMs don't impact the birds, marsh, and other hunters.


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

paddler213 said:


> What's amazing is that, as one of you guys said, MM use has exploded since 2006 (actually since about 1998 or so). However, hunter success has dropped during the same time period. In fact, I'm thinking that last year was the lowest success in a long time. IIRC, the long term average is ~1.3 ducks/hunter-day. When I talked to Tom mid-season last year, we were at ~0.8 ducks/hunter-day. But that's what happens when the GSL is low and you blow birds off our WMAs with MMs. If MMs were the end all to duck hunting, don't you think that hunter success should increase with increasing MM use? I guess you'd be wrong about that, just as you are wrong if you think that MMs don't impact the birds, marsh, and other hunters.


Is it possible that there are other factors contributing to this? Low lake level? Phrag take over? Warmer weather during the season? Skybusting?

Perhaps there are more factors causing this then just MM?

BTW, the last 2 season of duck hunting have been my (and my dads) best ever. I am certain that my boat is the direct cause of that.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

puddler said:


> Maybe you missed something, Kill. I interviewed hunters as they left FBWMA from about 9:00am till 1:00pm opening day of 2009. Fully 95% of all hunters voiced support of more motorless access. Let's just wait to see what the Division's numbers are, they will be statiscally valid.
> 
> What's amazing is that, as one of you guys said, MM use has exploded since 2006 (actually since about 1998 or so). However, hunter success has dropped during the same time period. In fact, I'm thinking that last year was the lowest success in a long time. IIRC, the long term average is ~1.3 ducks/hunter-day. When I talked to Tom mid-season last year, we were at ~0.8 ducks/hunter-day. But that's what happens when the GSL is low and you blow birds off our WMAs with MMs. If MMs were the end all to duck hunting, don't you think that hunter success should increase with increasing MM use? I guess you'd be wrong about that, just as you are wrong if you think that MMs don't impact the birds, marsh, and other hunters.


well i can tell you this much, YOU DID NOT ASK FOR MY OPINION. I WAS THERE. I NEVER SAW YOU. your numbers (or memory *\-\* ) must be off. what else has EXPLODED since 1998? PHRAG. combine PHRAG and DROUGHT conditions, you are going to have a less successful year. i myself didnt have any problems finding or killing birds last year. it was actually one of our better years, we shot the s*** out of them. many others did too. once again, you cant survey the common foot soldier to get accurate numbers or responses. i promise the group of people bringing in low numbers of kills are the people who hunt center dike and sky bust every flock that comes over. we averaged ATLEAST 1.0 ducks per hunter out of my boat last year. hell we even averaged that off center dike too! MMs have just as much impact on the marsh as canoes do. its a mode of transportation to get us where we want to go to harass ducks by shooting at them. that convinces ducks to leave more then anything else. but like i have said, you are not really a duck hunter. afterall, you only went 7 times last year, so you really cant say how you have noticed the impact the MMs have made over time. why dont you hunt when everything ices up??? MMs cant run through 6" of ice!! ...oh thats right, you dont want to contend with the 5 other groups of people fighting over the 1 110'x200' open spot of water in the entire marsh that is within walking distance....


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, Kill, I do hunt the ice, and precisely because I don't have to put up with MMs. When we increase motorless access, I'll hunt open water more.:

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=834608

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=827243


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

puddler said:


> Well, Kill, I do hunt the ice, and precisely because I don't have to put up with MMs. When we increase motorless access, I'll hunt open water more.:
> 
> http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=834608
> 
> http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=827243


true. you have to deal with every sky buster in the county and their dog... but thats fine. your decision. no wonder you think duck hunting in this state sucks. you only shoot 3 bullets a day and you are ready to change things up so YOU can kill more ducks.

heres the thing about MMs you dont realize. when you do actually go hunt, THEY HELP YOU. lets say you had your way and shut down the marsh completely. the birds will just go out further and further away from the pressure. way too far for anyone to walk or paddle. the birds will have no reason to move around because they get no pressure. they will stay in this area until it gets later in the season, then they will continue their migration. with MMs running around, we stir up the birds and pressure them so they move all over the place, creating more opportunities for guys like you (but the ones who actually hunt).  they also concentrate the birds in many remote areas that MMs cant access, which creates some amazing waterfowl hunting for foot soldiers. i promise you wont kill anymore ducks then you do now if you shut down the marsh.

so, PUDDLER, YOU'RE WELCOME!!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> However, hunter success has dropped during the same time period. That probably because the hunter have gotten lazy and don't walk any further he the center dike and sky bust birds. In fact, I'm thinking that last year was the lowest success in a long time. Don't you think the weather,water and pragh had anything to do with do you?I would say those are your number one problems. IIRC, the long term average is ~1.3 ducks/hunter-day. When I talked to Tom mid-season last year, we were at ~0.8 ducks/hunter-day. We had a early freeze and then a it opended abck up and tehn froze again by thanks giving day. But that's what happens when the GSL is low and you blow birds off our WMAs with MMs. You can't say that MM'S blow the birds out of here.Sorry that does not fly.You had hunting every day.You had Jack a$$ sky busting birds. You have a low lake and then then again a early freeze.The weather has a lot to do with how long are birds stick around. If MMs were the end all to duck hunting, don't you think that hunter success should increase with increasing MM use?My numbers has gone up sent I bought my boat.I have the chance to hunt more areas and get away from people. Plus having the boat is easier on my back and my wife and nephews can go out with me and hunt.  I guess you'd be wrong about that, just as you are wrong if you think that MMs don't impact the birds, marsh, and other hunters.


 Foot solder have a impact on hunts as much as mm's do.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

O yea we can catch are cripples faster to.so they don't get away.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

dkhntrdstn said:


> O yea we can catch are cripples faster to.so they don't get away.


very true. also guys who do skybust out of their MMs are more likely to retrieve birds that glide a long ways before going down then guys who stand on the dike with or without waders or guys in canoes.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

BTW PUDDLER, seems like a MAJORITY of the folks around here dont share the same views as you do ^^^... as you like to believe, THE NUMBERS DONT LIE. so far 84% support the use of MMs :mrgreen: :twisted:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I wish there was a poll choice that said the following: 

"Ban them, don't ban them, who cares? Just get the 5 or 6 people on UWN who won't quit hijacking every thread with the topic to shut up about it, please!" 

I would have picked that option if it were available.


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## Jsw (Dec 5, 2010)

In my opinion anybody who thinks they will ban MM Is living a pipe dream. That's not saying that there are areas that could use a little less boats but I don't own one so I'm not sure about that one. Also before you push to ban MM think about what else they could ban mabey four wheelers from our mountains they disturb the deer and elk and destroy vegetation. Once you ban one thing it makes it easier to ban something else. Why not ban shotguns from the hunting and let's go back to sling shots and spears to hunt, that would also stop most all the sky busting we could kill two birds with one stone. I dont think we should ban anything. I'm sure if you looks at the marshes like the mountains I'm sure you could find some areas that could use less traffic but wanting to ban them is not the answer.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Center dike sky busters? Hell, maybe with the mm's stirring things up and getting birds up into the ozone layer, perhaps some folks feel that it's the most optimal tactic in getting as close as their going to get to the birds to heat up their barrels and hear their gun go off.
I doubt many would bother setting up on birds getting blown off the WMA....why would they??


With more folks seeing the birds moving further and further out because of mm disturbance and caving into the idea that the best way to get to the birds through the use of mm's and airboats that actually perpetuates the stirring...... and shortly thereafter the blow out of the birds, that is also a means to an end as well I guess.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

the best way i have seen to blow out ducks from an area is for the marshes to ice over. but with the current effects of global warming, in a few short years, ice will be a thing of the past and you will have strong bird numbers clear up until the last day of the season!  so no worries there. just be patient. all in good time


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> the best way i have seen to blow out ducks from an area is for the marshes to ice over. but with the current effects of global warming, in a few short years, ice will be a thing of the past and you will have strong bird numbers clear up until the last day of the season!  so no worries there. just be patient. all in good time


You must sit or stand way too close to your exhaust pipe on your mud motor.

What birds get blown out from ice up? There's usually few left and numbers for the past few years change very little after the "big bang". There are a few influxes from some migrating birds, but for some **** reason they don't stick around very long.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Jsw said:


> In my opinion anybody who thinks they will ban MM Is living a pipe dream. That's not saying that there are areas that could use a little less boats but I don't own one so I'm not sure about that one. Also before you push to ban MM think about what else they could ban mabey four wheelers from our mountains they disturb the deer and elk and destroy vegetation. Once you ban one thing it makes it easier to ban something else. Why not ban shotguns from the hunting and let's go back to sling shots and spears to hunt, that would also stop most all the sky busting we could kill two birds with one stone. I dont think we should ban anything. I'm sure if you looks at the marshes like the mountains I'm sure you could find some areas that could use less traffic but wanting to ban them is not the answer.


I agree about restricting ATVs. Here's a pristine meadow well off any dirt road:



















This is the ridge, again nowhere near an open ATV trail:



















This is a new trail, created by ATVs:










This BS needs to end.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> puddler said:
> 
> 
> > Well, Kill, I do hunt the ice, and precisely because I don't have to put up with MMs. When we increase motorless access, I'll hunt open water more.:
> ...


Your way too honest about what you and your fellow mud motorheads do.

Lett'm' drop and then come back and we'll talk.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

1BandMan said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > the best way i have seen to blow out ducks from an area is for the marshes to ice over. but with the current effects of global warming, in a few short years, ice will be a thing of the past and you will have strong bird numbers clear up until the last day of the season!  so no worries there. just be patient. all in good time
> ...


wow, that is quite possibly the dumbest thing i have ever heard you say. THEY LEAVE BECAUSE THERE IS NO OPEN WATER TO SIT ON OR TO GET FOOD. that just shows me how much you get out to hunt each year. theres this new thing called a migration. its kind of a new thing the ducks have come up with. for some reason, they dont tolerate cold very well anymore. i guess they got tired of starving to death. i dont know if you know this or not, but when it gets so cold for a certain amount of time, the water freezes. now, ducks eat food to survive. they also like water and are primarily found in wet marshy areas. these marshy areas provide alot of ducks with the food they need to survive. when the water freezes, they move on to another spot that is a little warmer that still has open water, which also means food. that direction is usually south. they continue this patteren until they finally reach an area that has a warmer climate where ice is a pretty rare thing. they stay there until things warm up again, then they start heading back north because that is the primary area alot of ducks use for breeding and nesting. then next year i believe the ducks will do the same thing all over again. its kind of a neat concept they have come up with, and like i said, its a new thing they are trying out so it will be interesting to see if they do the same thing again next year :roll: o-||


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

puddler said:


> I agree about restricting ATVs. Here's a pristine meadow well off any dirt road:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FINALLY! heres a topic we can agree on!!!!!!!!!! this is a huge problem, that does need some attention!

:lol: you need to get a life tho. you have WAYYYYY too much time on your hands. you would make a good park ranger. Mr. Authority! if you put all your time and evergy into something worth while, you really could make a difference in the world, for good too! :mrgreen:

i really hope someday i run into you in the marsh when im running my MM down the dike and you voice your opinion and point out to me the sin i am committing by simply driving my boat..... that should make for a great conversation :lol:


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

1BandMan said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > puddler said:
> ...


i guess you need a lesson in sarcasim... 

i guess im a little slow, what do you mean by "lett'm drop and then come back and we'll talk"?


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Another problem with your poll (Paddler) is it was taken on the busiest day of waterfowling when EVERYBODY goes out and hunts. Thats like being stuck in a traffic jam and having someone come up to your window and say "dont ya wish there werent so many cars around!" Why dont you go out on the last monday of the season and do the same poll and average the numbers to get a good, honest estimate.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > kill_'em_all":2igt99kg][quote=puddler]Well said:
> ...


i guess you need a lesson in sarcasim... 

i guess im a little slow, what do you mean by "lett'm drop and then come back and we'll talk"?[/quote:2igt99kg]

Thats "funny" because I'm being "sarcastic" too:

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVstud ... 0901b.html


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

i wasnt planning on taking this thread in this direction...... apparently im the one who is more mature then you if you are posting s*** like that. are we still in middle school or something?

geez grow the f*** up. BTW, the majority of the votes are still in favor of MMs. call it biased or whatever you want to, but i think this forum has a wide rang of hunters on here. everyone from foot soldiers, to road hunters to MM runners. for the most part everyone hides behind their screen name. they all have their opinions. and THEY STILL ARE IN FAVOR OF MMs. i know it sucks to lose or not be with the majority of the crowd, but sometimes it happens 

this poll is in the public, anyone can vote on it. i didnt do it in secret like you and puddler do. i ran an "unbiased" poll last night with some of my friends and people i know at sportsmans warehouse. i surveyed 15 people. 100% of them were in favor of MMs and want to see more area opened up to MM use!!  looks like our numbers are off a little bit...?


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Gee LeDouche said:


> Another problem with your poll (Paddler) is it was taken on the busiest day of waterfowling when EVERYBODY goes out and hunts. Thats like being stuck in a traffic jam and having someone come up to your window and say "dont ya wish there werent so many cars around!" Why dont you go out on the last monday of the season and do the same poll and average the numbers to get a good, honest estimate.


I took a poll on the last Tuesday of the season this year, at FB. As I was the only one there, 100% of those surveyed favored more motorless restrictions. Happy now? 

Those ATV pictures were taken on the archery elk hunt. I didn't go out of my way to search for damage. It's widespread these days. Here's a link to a thread on ATVers I turned in during the grouse season. I think they were fined $400. Should have been $4000:

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=760064


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I took a poll on the last Tuesday of the season this year, at FB. As I was the only one there, 100% of those surveyed favored more motorless restrictions. Happy now? 

[/quote]

That Funny right there. I was there with a couple other buddy's and we did not even see another person there hunting that day.So you are pulling number out of your butt.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

paddler213 said:


> I took a poll on the last Tuesday of the season this year, at FB. As I was the only one there, 100% of those surveyed favored more motorless restrictions. Happy now?


awww...... S***! im fresh outta gold stars! :O||: whats your address so i can mail you one when i get some more. :roll:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> i wasnt planning on taking this thread in this direction...... apparently im the one who is more mature then you if you are posting s*** like that. are we still in middle school or something?
> 
> geez grow the f*** up. BTW, the majority of the votes are still in favor of MMs. call it biased or whatever you want to, but i think this forum has a wide rang of hunters on here. everyone from foot soldiers, to road hunters to MM runners. for the most part everyone hides behind their screen name. they all have their opinions. and THEY STILL ARE IN FAVOR OF MMs. i know it sucks to lose or not be with the majority of the crowd, but sometimes it happens
> 
> this poll is in the public, anyone can vote on it. i didnt do it in secret like you and puddler do. i ran an "unbiased" poll last night with some of my friends and people i know at sportsmans warehouse. i surveyed 15 people. 100% of them were in favor of MMs and want to see more area opened up to MM use!!  looks like our numbers are off a little bit...?


Its all good kill. I can understand why you don't appreciate my "let em' drop" humor, but with your stand on things, your interestingly and/but strange honesty about what mud motor heads think and do, and immaturity opened the door.

MM restriction is a good discussion, but one that's not going to be resolved here. *Possible* bias and skewed polls by you, paddler, whomever without ruling out these types of factors and getting a good sample by, again, a unbiased source is the only way to know what the masses want or feel is best.

Whether or not Utahns decide that mm's benefit the overall good of waterfowl, sportsmen and the environment in which they are used remains to be seen, *but there are* states that have put mm restrictions in place due to what the other states "DNR" folks have already determined. They have determined that they are a detriment as they feel that mm's or other motorized craft disturb and blow out waterfowl, effect water/feed quality, and have an overall negative ecological impact in the areas that they previously operated.


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## Jsw (Dec 5, 2010)

Good call on turning in the ATVers but that doesn't mean that everyone that owns one does the same thing. Just like with the ATVs if I were to see guys with MM out just ripping s&[email protected] up with there boats just to have fun I would probably report them. From my experience most guys use the canals and channels to get to open water then park on the edge of the weeds and hunt. We shouldn't chastise all "motor heads" just cause there are a few morons out there.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

[quote="kill_'em_allwow, that is quite possibly the dumbest thing i have ever heard you say. THEY LEAVE BECAUSE THERE IS NO OPEN WATER TO SIT ON OR TO GET FOOD. that just shows me how much you get out to hunt each year. theres this new thing called a migration. its kind of a new thing the ducks have come up with. for some reason, they dont tolerate cold very well anymore. i guess they got tired of starving to death. i dont know if you know this or not, but when it gets so cold for a certain amount of time, the water freezes. now, ducks eat food to survive. they also like water and are primarily found in wet marshy areas. these marshy areas provide alot of ducks with the food they need to survive. when the water freezes, they move on to another spot that is a little warmer that still has open water, which also means food. that direction is usually south. they continue this patteren until they finally reach an area that has a warmer climate where ice is a pretty rare thing. they stay there until things warm up again, then they start heading back north because that is the primary area alot of ducks use for breeding and nesting. then next year i believe the ducks will do the same thing all over again. its kind of a neat concept they have come up with, and like i said, its a new thing they are trying out so it will be interesting to see if they do the same thing again next year :roll: o-||[/quote]

Read the post before you post.
After the big bang bird numbers decline drastically. There are influxes (numbers increase) due to some migrating birds but for some reason they don't stick around very long.
Yes, birds move on when they loose thier food source (possibly due to it being covered with snow) or their drinking source *and* food source when it completely freezes. Again, there are influxes of birds during this time as well from migrating birds after a hard freeze up depending on how hard of a freeze up further north.

You brought up a good point though kill. Utah bands the hell out of the geese around here. 90% of the birds in Utah are local birds which hatch right here and used to not migrate very far other than golf courses and parks. Now birds banded here in Utah are regularly being harvested in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, etc. 
I believe we agree that much of the reason is pressure that the local goose populations migrate north during the hunt rather than south. The difference that you and I have is that I believe that numbers of mm's and airboats are a good chunk of the cause.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

A MM is not an atv.... we cant go anywhere we want. some of us do try, which is probably not the best thing for the habitat, but i highly doubt someone is going to give me a ticket for running through a patch of phrag... so far there are no rules concerning MMs. just common sense and ethics. until they place rules on how, when and where i can run my MM, i will continue to do what i think i should be doing. its my call, NOT YOURS.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

band, just so you know most of MM runners are pretty etical guys when it comes to taking shots that are within range. now we all have our shining moments when we launch bombs at birds that are too far, but for the most part from what i have seen, they let the high fliers go and wait for a better shot.... that is until the flocks of geese come over, then all hell breaks loose... :roll:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> A MM is not an atv.... we cant go anywhere we want. some of us do try, which is probably not the best thing for the habitat, but i highly doubt someone is going to give me a ticket for running through a patch of phrag... so far there are no rules concerning MMs. just common sense and ethics. until they place rules on how, when and where i can run my MM, i will continue to do what i think i should be doing. its my call, NOT YOURS.


Brilliance!! 
Yes, until there are regulations to stop you and other mud motor heads from scaring up and blowing out birds, rallying birds, destroying the water quality and food sources with their mud motors it is thier/your call not mine.
I've never been at any of the local WMA's writing tickets, fighting with mud motor heads about these issues, confiscating anyones rig or anything similar for causing damage or being themselves in the marsh, nor ever would I. If regulations and laws are written to prohibit their use, I still wont be the one enforcing it.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

no im already aware you cant back up your talk, nor do you want to. you just like to talk to hear yourself talk.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> no im already aware you cant back up your talk, nor do you want to. you just like to talk to hear yourself talk.


Its is really all good Kill. 
Nope, I don't plan to throw down with you or anyone else for that matter. 
Continue about your business Kill. You and your fellow mm brothers are obviously more worried about your investment and selfish interests than logic and conservation.
I could swing away all **** day with a 20lb sledge and still not put even a ding in you or anyone elses mud motor runner head.

As I said before in the other thread.......Done and done.


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## Josh Noble (Jul 29, 2008)

1BandMan said:


> Done and done.


Thank you lord!!
Now how about those Jazz!!!!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Josh Noble said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > Done and done.
> ...


Well the jazz have all summer to rebuild and get some good picks. They finished the season out pretty good.Can't wait to see what happens in the off season.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I enjoyed the last couple of games. Favors, Hayward, etc, are fun to watch. And Milsap is a stud. Now that AK's contract is up, they'll have money freed up. I loved what Kragthorpe said, that AK should pay the Jazz back by playing for free.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Josh Noble said:


> 1BandMan said:
> 
> 
> > Done and done.
> ...


Can i get an AMEN from the peanut gallery?!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

blackdog said:


> I voted yes because I like to come on this website and read how MM guys motor 4 miles out and set up 50 yards from each other.


 :lol: :lol: This is what I saw every time I hunted Farmington this last season. It was eye opening to say the least. :lol: :lol:

I voted yes, I supported mud motors on WMAs... because I do. That said, I also support more wakeless or even motorless areas as well. Hell, mud motors can get to just about everywhere on Farmington right now and they're already packed in about as tight as dike hunters on "shooters alley" in Turpin and the rest area unit.... its actually pretty ridiculous. I didn't hunt "northern" areas this year but I can't imagine they were much better. I think waterfowling is picking up a lot of folks from the other hunting styles (big game) with all that fiasco going on so whether its motorless or not, marshes are only going to get more and more crowded. Even if you were to make more units motorless *(which I do support)*, I don't know where you'd put the rest of the motor boats. I do think if we don't start limiting them in some form though, we're kinda cutting our own throats because as many boaters as there are now, if its not cutting back areas available, we're going to wind up with draws, or picking odd or even days to hunt or something to minimize the crowds and impact. *I don't know, maybe not but I don't see uncontrolled access doing ANYTHING to resolve conflicts between hunters vs hunters or hunters vs non hunters at all.*... especially after reading through this whole thing. 8)


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## Billcollector (Oct 31, 2007)

I put this on the other thread, and Ill put it here too


Some of you guys that are trying to be MM advocates need to think before you type. There are people on here that will think all boat/MM users think, and act like you. 

If you haven't noticed by now, the anti-MM's will take any opportunity to interject the motorless subject, and are trying to get it exposure. There is no need for us to help them with that.

If you love your MM like me, it might be better to leave the arguing to the people who can do it a little more intelligently.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2011)

i think i would rather have some argue who are less "intelligent" then others, then not say anything at all.... im not a huge fan of others telling me what they think is best. they need to live their life, i'll live mine.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree, Bill Collector. Not only what you said, but also argue in the appropriate arenas. This issue is not going to be decided in online forums. Arguments go two-ways. There is nothing to argue for those who want to take away your MM's if you just ignore them online. Just sayin...


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Hey Killer, I think BC was talking about you.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

yeah im pretty sure he was. i just dont do well when others thinking they have the right to tell me what they think is "best"


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

kill_'em_all said:


> yeah im pretty sure he was. i just dont do well when others thinking they have the right to tell me what they think is "best"


Oh the irony of this post...


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

TS30 said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > yeah im pretty sure he was. i just dont do well when others thinking they have the right to tell me what they think is "best"
> ...


This is getting entertaining. :lol: I agree that some of the posts on here would be quite offensive to the non-hunting crowd. But I'm not sure that matters much. It's the internet, after all, so nobody takes it seriously. However, a more civil discourse would be refreshing.

Just for the record, I didn't hijack the other thread. Somebody brought up my name, and I just affirmed what they said. My first post wasn't till Day 3 of the thread, and was quite benign. Things kinda went downhill from there.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, there is that special group of super mature people that when questioned intellectually they put others on their ignore list. Those guys probably take the internet a little seriously. But who cares about those people anyway?


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Is that you, V? Don't make me do it again.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

puddler, the majority is still in favor of MMs... just sayin


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> Somebody brought up my name, Things kinda went downhill from there.


Pretty much sums it up right there... and then, -O\__-


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