# Powerbelt vs Barnes



## Elkanddeer98

I have a CVA Accura (model before the V2) that I have been shooting for the past several years. I am debating whether to shoot Barnes bullets or powerbelts. What have you experienced with these bullets? Please include the grain and bullet name as well. I appreciate the help.


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## BigT

I don't shoot either. I shoot the 250 grain Hornady SST Low Drag out of my Thompson Center. I shoot great groups with this sabot. Shoots like a rifle, it loads relatively easy for a muzzy, and has been devastating to the game I've taken with them. 

If your choosing between those two, I would take the Barnes without much thought. You will find that the PBs will load quite easily, and you'll get some decent groupings with them. I was considering switching to them a while back but ended up not after seeing so much negativity surrounding them. Maybe they've fixed them, but its not uncommon for the PBs to fragment before hitting the target. I've heard good things about the Barnes.

This is a great avenue to check guys opinions on these sabots.

Good luck on whatever you decide.


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## fastcamo

Also not a fan of powerbelts, yes they load easy, but after hearing the fragment rumors I decide to start catching the bullets I had in media, everyone of them retained virtually no weight, all of them came apart. I do not use Barnes either, but if that's your two, Barnes in the best choice I believe.


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## Spry Yellowdog

My choice is Barnes,
Having used the 290 gr TEZ on two harvests its accuracy and terminal performance is awesome. The TEZ is used for tighter barrels like my T/C omega has. The TMZ is for slightly looser barrels. Only your gun knows which fits best.

After entering a Elks powerhouse from 150 yards away on a hard upward angle taking out the heart, right lung, and a 1 inch hole in the scapula.
I recovered this in the hide. Recovered weight 288 gr including the blue tip.

Spry


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## CROC

I have had good luck with powerbelts the last deer I killed with one the bullet was in 2 pieces when I found it, but it killed the deer. Had a large slug and a fragment but hitting both front shoulders will do a number on any bullet. They did the job for me and I have a good group at 100 yards. They load well, and I will use them again. I use a 348 gr in my .54 knight.


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## lunkerhunter2

Well I typed up a big read on this and it got lost in cyberspace. I used the 295 gr. powerbelts for 3 years with every bullet exploding inside my deer. I tried the 270 gr.platinum and same thing. I used a 348 gr. On a bull elk and it stayed together. I have since switched to the tc 250 gr. Shockwave and absolutely love them. 100% weight retention or clean pass through with a 2" wide hole.


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## 2full

I have a .54 Knight, same as CROC. I use the 348 gr PB as well.
Has worked very well for me. Have killed 3 very nice bucks the last 4 years. 
I only use 100 gr of powder, seems to be the key.
I could not get the Shockwaves to fly out of my gun. But have seen them work very well in others.


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## utahgolf

here's a barnes 290 grain tez that went right through the front shoulder of my buddies 6 point bull. We recovered it just inside the cape on the opposite side. Awesome bullet!


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## chobbs

I have shot both in my TC Encore. Powerbelts loaded a lot easier and shot about a 2" group at 100 yards. The Barnes shot a little better. I had one 3/4" group with 1 power scope. But the Barnes in my gun were so tight that I had to clean after every shot or I couldn't push them down the barrel.


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## goosefreak

chobbs said:


> I have shot both in my TC Encore. Powerbelts loaded a lot easier and shot about a 2" group at 100 yards. The Barnes shot a little better. I had one 3/4" group with 1 power scope. But the Barnes in my gun were so tight that I had to clean after every shot or I couldn't push them down the barrel.


Which Barnes?? I'm going to start off with Barnes and I'm not sure If i want to shoot the T-EZ or the TMZ. I know they are close to the same, but i'v heard the TMZ are harder to load, and thats the one I was thinking of starting with. I'm thinking the tighter the fit the more accurate right??


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## muzzlehunter

Shoot the t-ez, its alot easier to load. I havent shot any game with the barnes yet but its a great shooting bullet. Some of the best groups I have ever shot through a muzzleloader. And they claim the 99 percent retention, and you can see that in the pics from previous posts.


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## RandomElk16

I stand by the powerbelts... Killed too many and been on to many successful hunts not to.


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## Spry Yellowdog

Using blackhorn 209 I can load the tez down the thompson barrel as many times as I want to with out any difficulty. Shot it today to check its POI for the upcoming season.
2 holes touching at 100 yards 3 inches high. 2 holes touching at 200 yards 5 inches low. Exact L to R on both groups. Beside there accuracy I was having a good day

Spry


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## CROC

goosefreak said:


> Which Barnes?? I'm going to start off with Barnes and I'm not sure If i want to shoot the T-EZ or the TMZ. I know they are close to the same, but i'v heard the TMZ are harder to load, and thats the one I was thinking of starting with. I'm thinking the tighter the fit the more accurate right??


Not so on the tighter fit, as you foul the barrel(shoot and powder residue makes your bore smaller) this will cause issues with the tighter fitting bullet. If can clean your barrel after every shot every time it may be the more accurate but as bullets get harder to push down the barrel and you will mushroom or deform the tip of the bullet and this will cause inaccuracy every time. All goes well in the field till it rains or you get dirt somewhere and decide to shoot to make sure your gun goes off or miss and then you will cause yourself problems, you will be somewhere you don't want or have time to clean your barrel. This is my experience with the tight fitting bullets.


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## bamacpl

I shoot powerbelts & have no problems. I shoot a TC Encore 295 powerbelts & 150gr of Pyrodex (3 pellets)


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## Mtnbeer

One thing I've learned about shooting muzzleloaders is there is inconsistency in the size of the bore between brands and year manufactured. A 50 caliber muzzleloader can range anywhere between .499 to .505 and those thousands of an inch make a huge difference in accuracy when you rely upon plastic to achieve a tight fit, whether you're using a sabot or the Powerbelt plastic skirts. I use the 290 grain TMZ in my Knight and got really inconsistent groups with the bullet. Based on both Barnes and Knight's suggestions, I got a softer plastic sabot from Knight that fit the 290 grain TMZ and that made a HUGE difference. Now that gun is more accurate than I am.


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## torowy

I used to shoot powerbelts, but I switched to Hornady SST this year. I am shooting those much better than I ever did the powerbelts.


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## utahgolf

I'll try and find the video but there's a clip of a powerbelt hitting a whitetail right in the shoulder and completely bouncing off! Now I know people say you are suppose to hit them right behind the shoulder or that they dont expect a bullet to perform well when it has to go through a shoulder etc... Well im not perfect and its nice knowing that I can put those crosshairs right on the center of the shoulder and knowing if im off a little its still a dead animal! And that's why I would go with Barnes.


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## Dahlmer

Accuracy will have a lot to do with your rifle. In terms of which bullet is better, powerbelts should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Barnes Bullets. There are forums full of first hand experiences with powerbelts failing.


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## chobbs

They were the TMZ right after they came out. I have heard they changed the sabots since then and are supposed to be easier to load. I now shoot TC Shockwave's the shoot about a 2" group


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## MWScott72

I used to shoot 225 grain power belts out of Knight .45. Killed one deer with it, but I couldn't get them to group at all. My shots were all over the paper. Shot Barnes MZ expanders and they grouped SO much better. The Barnes weight retention is unmatched too. I wouldn't even consider the power belts. Every gun shoots different, but I've heard and experienced, to some degree, the down sides to the PBs and won't be going back. JMO.


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## flyfisher20

I don't have any experience with the Barnes bullets, but I prefer the TC Shockwaves way over the Powerbelts.


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## Nambaster

I paid the premium for the .245 Grain Powerbelts after the previous owner to my Thompson Center owner told me it was what he shot. After getting 10" in groups I had to try something else. Based on my experience those things are pretty inconsistent. They are expensive and they perform worse than the cheapest bullets out there.


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## MWScott72

Nambaster said:


> I paid the premium for the .245 Grain Powerbelts after the previous owner to my Thompson Center owner told me it was what he shot. After getting 10" in groups I had to try something else. Based on my experience those things are pretty inconsistent. They are expensive and they perform worse than the cheapest bullets out there.


Yep...what he said!:horn:


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## waspocrew

Barnes hands down. The 290 TMZ shoot extremely well out of my CVA Optima.


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## justismi28

For me, I hunt with a Barnes 250 gr TEZ. I get MOA accuracy with them, but my hunting load isn't the most accurate load I've been able to get out of my gun. My 5 shot groups open up to 2.5" at 200 yds with them, but I can keep it sub MOA with a 260 gr scorpion pt gold and a harvester crushed rib. I've also go pretty close results accuracy wise from a powerbelt. I shoot the barnes because its reliable. from 5 yds to 250, it'll open uniformly and retain its KE as it travels through the animal. From a performance perspective, it makes sense to me to shoot the bullet that will do the best job for what you're trying to achieve. For me and my gun, thats a Barnes bullet when hunting, and the scorpion pt gold for paper punching.


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## El Matador

Powerbelts are nothing but a soft chunk of lead that has to deform upon powder ignition in order to engage the rifling. That bullet deformation will be different in hot or cold weather and will affect point of impact. They are so soft that you need to shoot a huge bullet to ensure good penetration so your ballistics will suffer a great deal. I would only use them if they were the last bullets on earth and I was shooting 100 yards or less with the heaviest bullet available.

Barnes bullets will fly the same in any weather and will penetrate bone, unlike the powerbelts which are about the same hardness as a piece of chewed Bubblicious. I also like SST's and T/C Shockwaves (same as SST's but also available in bonded). Find a sabot that fits your barrel nice and snug and go hunting without wondering whether or not your powerbelt will penetrate past the hide.


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## Elkanddeer98

Sounds like it is between the Barnes t-ez, the Hornady SST, and the TC shockwave.....I forgot to mention I am also using 2 pyrodex pellets (100 grains). Thanks for the help guys. I truly appreciate it.


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## RandomElk16

El Matador said:


> Powerbelts are nothing but a soft chunk of lead that has to deform upon powder ignition in order to engage the rifling. That bullet deformation will be different in hot or cold weather and will affect point of impact. They are so soft that you need to shoot a huge bullet to ensure good penetration so your ballistics will suffer a great deal. I would only use them if they were the last bullets on earth and I was shooting 100 yards or less with the heaviest bullet available.
> 
> Barnes bullets will fly the same in any weather and will penetrate bone, unlike the powerbelts which are about the same hardness as a piece of chewed Bubblicious. I also like SST's and T/C Shockwaves (same as SST's but also available in bonded). Find a sabot that fits your barrel nice and snug and go hunting without wondering whether or not your powerbelt will penetrate past the hide.


I get the superiority of Barnes... But this made me laugh aloud. I have killed all my deer with 245 gr hollow point powerbelts. Last year was 1 shot at 125yds or so. Silly statement.

When shooting <200yds with bullets as big as ml, it will be hard to find many that "fail" or deform to the point they don't kill.


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## fishreaper

El Matador said:


> Powerbelts are nothing but a soft chunk of lead that has to deform upon powder ignition in order to engage the rifling. That bullet deformation will be different in hot or cold weather and will affect point of impact. They are so soft that you need to shoot a huge bullet to ensure good penetration so your ballistics will suffer a great deal. I would only use them if they were the last bullets on earth and I was shooting 100 yards or less with the heaviest bullet available.


It sounds like powerbelts are just modern Minnie-balls like they used in the civil war. They(minnie-balls) were designed with a hollow base that upon an ignited charge, would expand the lead base and force it to engage the rifling. Skilled marksmen were capable of some pretty impressive things with minnie-balls capable of hitting man sized targets accurately out several hundred yards, allegedly even out to 500 yard. It is part of the reason the civil war was so deadly; and the fact that we still lined up in rows. But perhaps it had to do with those extra long barreled Springfields and enfields.


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## 2full

I killed a very nice big deer at 147 yards with the 348 grain PBelt 4 years ago. It all depends what flies best out of your gun. I tried a whole bunch of bullets before trying the PB's because nothing would fly at all. I tried them last because of all the bad press they always get. They load great, fly great, and have knocked deer down when hit. Have killed a 27", a 30", and a 31" with them. 
I can't complain.


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## meltedsnowman

The Barnes T-EZ shoots very well through my CVA Optima. I switched to Blackhorn last year and shoot 100 gr loads and I am able to fire quite a few bullets before cleaning is even thought of. MY LE bull last year with one shot using this setup, and I have no complaints.


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## Elkanddeer98

I went and bought some sabots tonight. I decided to go with the Barnes T-EZ with 2 pellets of pyrodex. I'm planning on going to shoot it this week and we will see how it performs. Thanks for the help guys.


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## El Matador

RandomElk16 said:


> I get the superiority of Barnes... But this made me laugh aloud. I have killed all my deer with 245 gr hollow point powerbelts. Last year was 1 shot at 125yds or so. Silly statement.
> 
> When shooting <200yds with bullets as big as ml, it will be hard to find many that "fail" or deform to the point they don't kill.


My statements were based on my own personal experiences, and I understand that others may not feel the same way. But that's why we are all allowed to comment on stuff. The one and only powerbelt turd that I shot at a deer failed miserably. I made a great shot at 75 yards, placing the bullet just forward of the shoulder crease. The bullet exploded on impact, only penetrating about 3" and taking out a softball-sized crater of flesh. It knocked the deer down and into some brush where I couldn't see it. I reloaded and made my way over to the buck, who had been thrashing around in pain for about 2 minutes. I was able to finish it off with another shot behind the shoulder. So 100% of the powerbelt turds I've used on game have failed to make clean kills...from 75 yards. Sorry but I respect the animals I hunt way too much to risk that kind of bullet failure again. I'm sure if you're accurate enough to miss the shoulder and guide your bullets between ribs every time the powerbelts will do their job. In the meanwhile I'm going to use bullets that don't suck.

I will concede that the 348 grain PBs are better suited for hunting due to the increased sectional density. That's a big enough chunk of lead that it should perform better when hitting bone. Even so, I have no reason to mess with them when I have much better bullets available that shoot sub-MOA out of my gun. The Barnes shoot flatter to boot.


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## tshuntin

I have always been a big Barnes fan for our rifle and muzz loads. Our family had harvested many deer and a couple elk with them, successfully. When I got my CVA Accura a few years ago, CVA recommended the power belts so i bought the ones they recommended. Took them to the range (along with Barnes 290 in TEZ and tmz) and played with different BH209 levels from 90 grains up to about 115 I believe. I could never get the power belts to group better than about 9-10". Where as the Barnes were more like 1-2" groups at 100 yards from a solid rest. I have stayed with the Barnes with 110 grains of BH209.


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## StillAboveGround

My 2 cents is for Barnes. I like the weight retention, the cutting petals at expansion and the fact that it's copper. My TC Encore did not like powerbelts (which I now use for fishing sinkers).

But it also depends on what your particular gun likes to shoot.
I started with Powerbelts but could never shoot good groups, I switched to Barnes (TMZ first,then TEZ) and have never tried anything else since my gun shoots them well. 
Systematically try different loads to find best groups. My TC likes 95 grains Pyrodex powder with 250 grain bullet and 120 grains powder with 290 grain bullet.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting pretty excited... 10 more days until ML hunt.


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## muzzlehunter

Here is a 250 gr Barnes bullet out of my nevada deer this week.


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## utahgolf

here's a 290 grain barnes that we got from my buddies elk on saturday. I seriously don't know why people search for bullets when you know what you get with barnes!


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## Critter

Here is a 300 grain Thor bullet made by Barnes with a new one beside it. It broke ribs going in and coming out before lodging on the far side skin. Two other hits were complete pass troughs on a 120 yard shot.


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## Spry Yellowdog

Shot a buck Sunday morning with a Barnes 290 tez.
High lung spine shocker leaves no blood trail just a dead 
deer where he was standing. No bullet pics, it exited the off side shoulder.
Now its just tasty tenderloins, roasts, steaks and burger in the freezer.

Spry


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## bamacpl

Shot a bull Friday with a .270 platinum Aerotip & performed well....bull dropped in his tracks. 150grains of Pyrodex pellets


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## RandomElk16

bamacpl said:


> Shot a bull Friday with a .270 platinum Aerotip & performed well....bull dropped in his tracks. 150grains of Pyrodex pellets


Pics or it didn't... drop in his tracks!


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