# Brace Hight Question??



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

So, I'm picking up either the Bowtech Reign 6 or 7 but, I havent decided which brace hight to get.

When I shot these bows, I wasn't even planning on looking at the Reign 6 but, it was the first bow I started shooting out of the lineup. I shot the Reign 6 and 7 and the Prodigy.

Incredible bows to say the least but, I did narrow it down between the 2 Reign's
I went to the shop 2 times over the last 2 weeks shooting these bows and I found myself shooting the Reign 6 the most.

contrary to what others say, or physics, or any other disputing factor, the Reign 6 in my hands felt like a smoother draw and a smoother drop into the back wall, dead in the hand. It seemed to release the arrow smoother but defiantly with more authority. Out of the 6 and 7, the Reign 6 was more of a WOW factor than the 7 but, how much more was minimal at best because the Reign 7 was in its self a phenomenal shooting bow, (silky smooth draw, SOLID back wall, dead in the hand etc )

If I were to guess why the R6 stuck out to me more than the 7 would be how fast it was whipping that arrow out at. With the Reign 7 shooting an IBO of 340 and the Reign 6 IBO of 350, I am split over which one to get.. 

Considering the range of 15-20 yards of which I was shooting, Both bows I shot extremely well. ( like a 4 arrow 2" group with their chitty sights and out of wack peep) 

Id like some opinions of which BH to get and why...

This new bow setup is going to be specifically for shooting elk 
I'v always shot 7" BH
My draw is 27.5 Inches
I shoot between 68-70 lbs 
I'll be shooting an arrow between 400-420gr 

I figured with those specs, shooting the Reign 6 I'd be pushing that arrow around 300fps and if I got the Reign 7 I'd be pushing the same arrow in the mid 280's fps

pro's? cons?

Im aware the longer BH is more "forgiving" etc but, is a 1 inch difference going to make a diff? is a shorter BH "less accurate"?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Do you like to hit your coat when shooting your bow when it's cold? I don't and that's one reason I would shoot a 7 inch over a 6 inch. 

You can't tell 10 fps difference it's in your head. You can barely tell the difference in 10 fps on a sight tape if you compare them side by side.

An animal ain't going to know the difference in 10 fps. 

In the end its up to you. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

On a Vegas face my daughters best score with a 6 inch brace height bow with a 23 mm arrows was 299 22x. She shot very few 299s but it shot fast. Switched cams and limbs on that exact same bow and her best score went up to 300 26x in a few days. She shoots alot of 300 vegas scores with the new limbs and cams. What does this say if you were to put a broadhead on the tip? It means the ten to fifteen feet per second faster arrow is less forgiving at close distance. At further distance it's worse. The 10 fps difference in KE isn't anything. The added difference in accuracy does mean something. 

You should see how good her bare shaft flies out to 80 yards. 

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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Sounds like a toss up if both draw and shoot equally well. If that's the case, go with the faster flatter shooting one.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I appreciate your advice and I will consider it but, I don't believe 1 inch in BH difference is going to cause me to hit my coat. I think poor shooting posture would result in more frequent arm slaps.. that said, I have a standard that if I wear certain clothing I wear my half length camo arm guard anyways regardless of BH.. thanks though, really, I'll put that down in the list of cons when choosing!


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Anytime I see the string hit the arm, I immediately know the draw is too long. As far as hitting the coat... I always wear an arm guard when shooting long sleeve or jackets to keep the clothing out of the way of the string.

I have learned that brace height has a lot to do with draw length. My wife and daughter both shoot 25 and 26 inch draws respectively. Both tried a 7 inch brace height bow and both could not shoot well. They switched to a 5.5 inch brace height and their accuracy improved dramatically. Why? Because the shorter draw allowed the string to come to mid arm instead of elbow due to the length of their arms. It just fit them better. Not sure if that makes sense on paper. Longer draws need higher brace height, shorter draws work well with lower brace heights. Has a lot to do with a persons anatomy. I am betting that at your draw length, the 6 inch will work well. Do the accuracy test to determine which works best for you and forget the speed factor. With the string stops that are on the bows now days, the bow string traveling past brace height isn't a factor anymore. I used to shoot a 6 inch brace height bow several years ago and the string would hit my watch as it traveled past brace height on the shot. (I have a 30 inch draw) I had to shoot without a watch. Didn't have that trouble with a 7 inch brace height bow. Now with the string stoppers on the bows, I can shoot any brace height and not have that problem. Probably the biggest factor in being able to shoot a shorter brace height well has to do with the geometry of modern compounds. With the parallel limb design, the bow doesn't "jump" like they used to of yesteryear. Bows sit "dead" in the hand on the shot, which aids greatly in reducing bow torque. Self imposed hand torque is something different and if that is your problem, you need to work on form.

I understand the theory that a bow is more forgiving for a longer brace because the arrow leaves the string sooner, but think about it a moment. The time it takes the bow string to travel 1 inch farther on a shorter brace height bow is so minimal that I doubt you could even measure it. Faster than a blink of an eye. In that very small amount of time, I have my doubts that torque would really be a factor. I believe the theory is correct, but the application is doubtful. I subscribe to the theory that brace height needs to be tied to draw length with modern compound bows.


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## kdog (May 4, 2015)

I would go with the bow that you feel best about. a significant part of acuracy is the mental game in the end. if you are confident you will not get string slap with a coat ( you could take your coat to the shop and test it before you buy it ) then the choice of the 6 seems pretty clear to me.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

There is truth to what bow_dude said. I shot an older model Bowtech (Extreme Solo) years ago that had either a 5.5 or 6 in brace height without a string stop. I hated shooting it because it was inevitable to always slap my wrist. It wasn't because of a draw length too long. The DL was 28 and I normally shoot 29 (which might even be a skosh too long...). The string stops today are a game changer.


Also makes sense about draw length matching up brace height. 

Good advice right there...


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Does string hitting the arm mean the draw length is too long? No not in every case especially if you have near perfect form and are actually getting in the bow like your susposed to.

6" brace height bow, parallel limbs, string stop, perfect form and string touches her arm. At the end of the day she has a small red mark where the string touches. Her draw isn't long in fact it's near perfect. 









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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

My experience with string slap is. Years ago when I bought my first bow, I was shooting a 7" BH and I would get string slap all the time, that's why I bought the arm guard that I still have today which I wear with "thicker" cloths. Saying that, i became more involved in my shooting and learned proper shooting form and tried mastering that form consistently, since then, I have never had a string slap issue again. That's not saying someone else who shoots with perfect form won't get string slap as I'm sure it happens. 

Maybe another question would be in regards of my draw length in relation to brace height.
I'm 5'9" 180lbs and shoot a draw length or 27.5 inches. I like the string to sit on the tip of my nose. If I were to make a fist with my hand, the center of my hand would sit in the center of my ear when drawn back. I don't like going any farther then that because I feel like I'm over stitching my chest. 

I hear shorther BH are good for shorter draw people so, what draw lengths would fit best with a 6" BH? And at what point does a 7" BH become "better"


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I had a turbo model with a 6" BH and a 29" DL and shot fine with, so, I don't know that there is a "set" standard.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

Brace Height affects accuracy. Even though the arrow is only on the string a milisecond longer, that milisecond can affect where and how your arrow flies based on your form and follow through. Brace height also affects string slap on your forearm. 

All that said, I would get the 6". Your draw length is lower than average (I believe the industry average is 29"), so the impact of a shorter brace height will be lower since you have a shorter draw stroke. Also, you can negate the negative impact of string slap with a nice arm guard. More importantly, we can all tell you want the 6" brace height! Fast bows are fun. Go for it!


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

As a matter of fact, I do want the 6 inch brace height for the fact that I can shoot her a heavier Arrow faster. Probably for that reason alone. 
I would almost argue the fact that when I shot the 6, it seemed to shoot smoother than the 7 while delivering more authority to the shot. 

Having said that, and this bow I'm going to stick with for another 10 years or so, I want to do this right, meaning regardless if I want the 6, I would rather have the better performing bow 

Let me ask you guys this, is there a downside or a negative affect on a bow with a 7 inch brace height Shooting a 27.5 inch draw length? And would The 6 inch brace height compensate where the 7 inch brace height is lacking?


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

The only major drawback for a 7" brace height is slower speed. It also sounds like you think the 7" isn't quite as smooth on the draw cycle, so that is another draw back. Good luck with your decision. Throwing down a bunch of money on a new piece of equipment is fun, but I understand you wanting to get it right.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

AF CYN said:


> It also sounds like you think the 7" isn't quite as smooth on the draw cycle,


the difference is extremely minimal.. only reason why I say the 6 was smoother is because it seemed to fall into the back wall more firm.
getting more rotation out of the cam maybe??

The 7 was an incredible bow in its self.

I would be happy with either. 
if I were to number them I would say the R7 was a 9.5 and the R6 was a 10
out of 10 stars, or 10 thumbs up

Maybe I need to shoot them both again. leave my hoody on, do 50 pushups stand and shoot.....


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm new to archery, someone explain what the brace is. 

Still breaking in my new bow. Shot this group today at 20 yards in my back yard.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

TPrawitt91 said:


> I'm new to archery, someone explain what the brace is.
> 
> Still breaking in my new bow. Shot this group today at 20 yards in my back yard.


Brace height is measured from deepest part of the grip to the string. Do a Google search "brace height" for photos. There are good examples but copyright laws prevents me from copy and pasting them.

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

goosefreak said:


> the difference is extremely minimal.. only reason why I say the 6 was smoother is because it seemed to fall into the back wall more firm.
> getting more rotation out of the cam maybe??
> 
> The 7 was an incredible bow in its self.
> ...


Can you see the difference in the cams? Or the reason the 7 "felt" not as smooth?
Those photos are from both bows
















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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

goosefreak said:


> getting more rotation out of the cam maybe??


Now that is a good question. Yes, cams set to the draw length to get the most rotation is better. I currently have Carbon Spyder 34 with the #2 cam set at 29". That is the max setting. The #3 cam would put that draw in the middle. The #2 gets more of the rotation.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

After looking around, my brace height is 6 1/4 inch as per the manufacturer. My draw is 31" (I'm 6'5") and weight is 65lb draw. Any experienced archers have any thoughts on this setup for a beginner? I'm still breaking in the string. It has roughly 100 shots since I purchased it.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > the difference is extremely minimal.. only reason why I say the 6 was smoother is because it seemed to fall into the back wall more firm.
> ...


 I cannot see a difference in the picture, maybe they get more rotation from drawing office 6 inch brace height versus a 7 inch. I shot both the Bose and they were both set at 27 1/2 inch draw, but the Reign 7 seemed to me to have just a slightly longer draw across my face then the Reign 6. And I'm wondering if those things were due to drawing six-inch brace height of bow? Maybe getting just a little more rotation out of the cam?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

High Desert it's not a hoyt so your example doest work in this instance.

The cams on the 7 and 6 are the same cam. That's the reason I posted the photo. The only difference is brace height on the bow. One inch difference in brace height equals 10 fps. The reason the cam on the 7 felt different is because it was probably slightly out of time. It doest take much either for you to feel it. It is virtually impossible for a bow shop to keep every bow in tune for every guy that comes in and wants to test drive them. 

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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

swbuckmaster - you missed the point...


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

If you look at the riser differences. You will see the 6 is more reflexed. To me that automatically means less accurate on average. 
I gave you an example of my daughter who is a top ten in her age division in the USA with her 6" brace height bow scores were average 297 16x with best being 299 20 something x. I took the same bow and made it a 7 inch brace height and scores went up. Average is 298 to 299 20 plus x. However she shoots alot of 300 games with her best being 300 26x. In a tournament or hunting situation I want to be absolutely confident I can make the shot. Accuracy trumps speed when it comes to bows. Guarantee you you can't tell the difference in 10 fps pulling your arrows out of a target or game. Maybe some day you might want to shoot 3d with that bow. Would you be more impressed that your arrow sticks in a foam target a millimeter more or impressed you actually hit what your aiming at.









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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Think of it like this do you want an inch grouping gun or 1/2 inch gun. Either will kill an elk. However if your competing or extending the range I'm going for the 1/2 gun. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

High Desert Elk said:


> swbuckmaster - you missed the point...


I didn't miss the point. Different size hoyt cams don't apply to bowtech bows with the same size cam set at the same draw length. The 6 inch also isn't going to have more rotation then the 7. Look at the photo of the cams I posted. They are set in the same spot compared to the limbs.

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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

swbuckmaster said:


> I didn't miss the point. Different size hoyt cams don't apply to bowtech bows with the same size cam set at the same draw length. The 6 inch also isn't going to have more rotation then the 7. Look at the photo of the cams I posted. They are set in the same spot compared to the limbs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


The point was - yes, draw length can affect the way a cam operates at optimimum performance. Not on every cam system. I was simply answering a question...


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

If i shoot both bows with a 27.5 inch draw, aren't I drawing the 6 off the brace an extra inch over the 7 to equivalent my draw length? 
Being that the string is 1 inch closer to the brace it would have to travel 1 inch farther then the 7 to equivalent the same draw right? otherwise the 6 would be a 26.5 draw if they were both set at the same spec.
Contrary to the picture, maybe the string pegs on the cams are machined to different calibration than the 7, compensating that "lost" or "not lost" inch??

I don't know if I believe that if you took the same cams and torqued the limbs so that the string is 1 inch closer to the riser and set both bows on the same hole, that they would be the same draw. That inch has to go somewhere.. to me that inch would go into the draw causing the cam to turn a frog hair more. Those particular measuresments required probably wouldn't be seen unless you had a calibration tool..

IDK, just my theory... maybe I'm wrong


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

From my observation and experience, what makes up the difference is not in the draw, but in the riser configuration, i.e. angle of the limbs as they come off the riser, length of limbs, or how far the limb pockets are set in or out from the grip part of the riser. If it were made up in the cam rotation, then that would definitely affect the feel of the draw due to cam rotation. Things that would affect the cam rotation would be the location of the draw stops. On my Elites, there is an adjustable draw stop, which will affect the cam rotation, increase or decrease the valley or increase and decrease the draw length as well as let off. Twisting the string will relax or increase the tension on the limbs which will also affect brace height and affect cam rotation except in the case of a parallel limb bow. You can also affect cam rotation by increasing or decreasing the twists of the buss cables. That in itself normally doesn't affect brace height... at least on my Elite bows. Manufacturers recommend buss cable lengths and string lengths because that puts the draw, cam rotation, axel to axel length and brace height to what they determine is optimal for their particular model.


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## ISHY (Dec 4, 2015)

For any newbies, here's a good right up on bh.
http://www.huntersfriend.com/compound-bow-specifications-terms-diagrams-help-research-guide.html


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

ISHY said:


> For any newbies, here's a good right up on bh.
> http://www.huntersfriend.com/compound-bow-specifications-terms-diagrams-help-research-guide.html


I really enjoyed that read. Thanks, Ishy.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

"So if you hunt in dense woods where 20 and 30 yards shots are common, your bow's forgiveness isn't really a factor. If you hunt open country, where you must be able to reach out to 50, 60, even 70+ yards, you might consider being a little more selective."

Exactly what I'm saying!

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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

SO.......I couldn't decide which to get so, I bought the REIGN 7! just to play it safe.

Im sure I would have shot the 6 really good but, I decided to play it safe..

Now I need to get it set up. I'v got a Black Gold verdict 5 pin slider with a 6" dovetail base on order... should be here in a couple weeks


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