# Rough Chamber



## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I had been waiting patiently to finally shoot my new Remington Sendero that I got for my "Christmas present". Everything on the rifle seemed perfect, but when cycling ammo or brass, I noticed that the brass would then have vertical scratches after being ejected. These aren't big gouges, but they weren't there before I put them in the chamber.

Before heading to the range, I tried to clean the rifle the best I could before shooting. My first shot with factory ammo came out ok, but it did seem like there was some resistance. I waited a couple of minutes, fired another shot and this time more resistance. Again, wait a few minutes and fire one more. This time, I can get the bolt all the way to 12 o' clock, but I can't pull it back to extract the case. After pulling for a bit, it comes out with a noticeable "ring" above the belt of the case.

I checked all of my fired cases and they all had the same "ring" above the belt. The primers seemed to have a bit more of a dimple than normal, so I thought maybe the factory ammo was a little hot. I tried one round of remington factory ammo and same thing, can't pull the bolt back. This was the worst one to get out.

Remington will for sure be hearing from me Monday morning! Has anyone ever experienced this before? None of my previous rifles have had this issue, and I'm super disappointed that this happened with what is supposed to be a "premium" rifle. Any good gunsmiths you would recommend in Northern UT? Any help would be great!


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Remington first. If you don't get any immediate response I would take it over to Cross Canyon in Ogden for a chamber/borescope. Not good for a new Remington.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Here is what the brass looks like:
Fired on left, unfired on the right. Notice the "ring" above the belt.
[attachment=2:1f531zrt]sendero brass1.jpg[/attachment:1f531zrt]

A view of the primers:
[attachment=1:1f531zrt]sendero brass3.jpg[/attachment:1f531zrt]

Tried the Remington Factory ammo instead of the Fusion. Same result:
[attachment=0:1f531zrt]sendero brass4.jpg[/attachment:1f531zrt]


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

Wow, that ring it's leaving is strange. I would definitely expect better from the big green. I've never had a rough chamber on a rifle before, but my Ruger LCP had a horribly machined barrel and chamber. Ruger said it was on par with a normal LCP so I decided to fix it myself. It used to stove pipe maybe once in twenty rounds before, after being polished it hasn't jammed in over 100 shots. Now, I wouldn't say I recommend polishing it yourself, but it worked for me.


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## muzzlehutn (Oct 26, 2007)

It sounds like you have a couple of burrs up by your locking lugs. I would see if you could feel any rough spots with your finger around there. as for gun smiths up north i know theres one in wellsville and one in Whitney Idaho but i would see what remington says.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Take it back where you bought it. They should help get it back to Remington.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

One more reason to dislike belted magnums.


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## muzzlehutn (Oct 26, 2007)

Fishrmn said:


> One more reason to dislike belted magnums.


One more reason to dislike Remington HAHAHA! just kiddin -_O- The reason for the belt is to keep your pants up when you shoot somethin that fast hahaha! -_O-


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## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

Seems like I heard about Remington having some trouble with there reamers a while back. Hopefully they set things straight.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I had a 700 SPS Tactical .308 that shot awesome out of the box... I figured I'd be safe going the Remington route again. I'll have to see what the company says tomorrow.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Called up Remington this morning and was told to send the rifle to them. They are paying shipping both ways. I'm hoping tht it won't take forever to get my rifle back, but I'm glad they are taking care of it. Customer service was more than understanding. I'm impressed so far.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Fishrmn said:


> One more reason to dislike belted magnums.


This is very true. Belted cases headspace on the belt instead of the shoulder. Originally Holland & Holland did this so the same case could be used in double rifles that normally used a rimmed case to extract AND in the new bolt-actions that normally use a rimless case. In addition, the gently-sloping shoulder of the H&H cases didn't work that great for headspacing so the belt helped here.

Because the H&H cases were big and worked in bolt actions, wildcatters like Weatherby used them as a basis for their blown-out hot new magnums. Eventually the belt was associated with high-performance rounds, even though it is useless in a bolt-action rifle and modern sharp shoulder Magnum case designs - and costs more to make (with higher rejection rates). There can also be belt-placement, and therefore headspace, variations on different lots and manufacturers belted cases.
Basically we are putting up with possible issues so the case will look cool - at least cool to shooters in the late 1950s and '60s who associated the belt with the magic word "Magnum".

The problem lies in the fact that manufacturers can get sloppy on chamber specs - like the belt-to-shoulder spec because the belted mag headspaces on the belt. If the reamer is correct and specs are kept in line, things are okay - but if the specs get out whack by a bit then the case is held by the base and expands to the chamber shoulder stretching the case. This is what you see here and it is NOT an unusual occurance.

Because of the headspace on the belt, manufacturers know that it is okay to let the production run continue and things will be okay most of the time. Especially so because manufacturers figure that most will shoot factory ammo - a one-shot event for the case. No less than the president of Savage Arms has mentioned this in print.
Obviously in _waspocrew_'s case the specs at Remington were allowed to go too far - as well as the issues with the rough chamber.

The problem of short case life and head separation crops up particularly for reloaders as the area ahead of the belt stretches and gets thin and weak. Many belted magnum reloaders set the dies up so the case headspaces on the shoulder instead of the belt. However if the chamber spec is "magnum generous" and the initial stretch is large, case life may be limited to 1 or 2 loadings. _Fishrmn_ has seen this first-hand, so he knows what he is talking about. As mentioned, lot and manufacturer variations in cases can combine with the chamber specs for trouble as well.

For some reason the biggest offender for problems in this area is the very popular 7mm Rem Mag. Even reloading manuals say that chamber specs for various 7mm Rem Mags are all over the place. That is why maximum load data varies so much from source to source. Those chamber variations also mean headspace variations.

This is one reason why many new Magnum cartridges like the WSM series don't have a belt and headspace the traditional and proper way on the shoulder. One less headache for everyone involved. Personally, having known this for a while is one reason why I tend to recommend the new beltless Mags like the WSMs etc. That is just one of their advantages. They also take advantage of that room the useless belt takes up to make the case a bit fatter to hold more powder - one reason Short Mags are so close to the performance of their longer belted relatives.

So while I understand that many of you are fortunate enough to have no issues with your belted mags and love them to death, you probably should realize that generally speaking, the belt of a belted mag cartridge adds nothing positive and CAN be a source of problems in many instances.

And yes - Remington (love 'em though I do) has had QC issues lately. Marlin lever guns went to pot when Remington bought them and moved manufacture to their Ilion plant.


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

I've got the same issue with my 700 SPS, after about the third shot good luck opening the bolt and cycling unless you put the strength of sampson into it. I am looking for good gunsmiths now to fix it once and for all. I would send it back but it has been more than two years since I bought it


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

quakeycrazy said:


> I've got the same issue with my 700 SPS, after about the third shot good luck opening the bolt and cycling unless you put the strength of sampson into it. I am looking for good gunsmiths now to fix it once and for all. I would send it back but it has been more than two years since I bought it


Give them a call anyway. Most firearms manufacturers are very good at customer service.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I had that same problem with the primers cratering with my 700 SPS tactical in 223. I sent my rifle back to Remington because I thought the chamber was creating to much pressure causing the cratering and they said "thats normal for our firearms since we use a reverse chamfering process. " :-| I bet they clean/polish it up and say "thats normal".


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Gee LeDouche said:


> I bet they clean/polish it up and say "thats normal".


I sure hope that's not the case.

I made sure they knew everything that was wrong with the brand new rifle. The failure to extract was issue #1, but the primers did have me concerned as well.

I'm hoping things will go well!


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## BULLFEVER08 (Jan 11, 2013)

I would not be worried about the primer "issue" on the rem. 700s this is the norm I have numerous newer ones that all do it including a sendero. Do a quick search on the web and you will see it is quite common .As far as the rough chamber hopefully they will fix it right up for you.


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