# Limited Archery Elk to Early



## kirkschopped67 (Sep 8, 2015)

Have you noticed that over time, bow hunters have lost days in September to hunt Elk in the rut. It is happening in a lot of states. In the past, we would have the whole month of September to bow hunt Elk. Then we lost the last week of September to the gun hunter. Now the season closed for us on September 11 this year. 

The gun season started on the 12th (next day). The last 4 days of the hunt we had gun hunters in there scouting. Why not have a 7 day gap and give the animals a break. You only had up to the 8th before the gun hunters and all there groupies arrived in camp destroying the end of the season. This is a LE tag that may take 10 years or longer to get.

When are we going to stand up and take back archery as we knew it. The gun hunters are in there killing Elk at 15 yards during the full blown rut. Hunting the LE archery tag will never allow us to experience the rutting action during the full rut. If the rut comes late, like this year, you are out.

Now the states are taking tag away from us, and selling them in the form of Landowner Tags, Auction Tags, and the Governor's Tag. What other bull**** tag are they going to come up with.

Not sure how to stop this bull****, but we are being ripped off. Little by little they are selling our game. Those tags belong to the people, and the people should have the chance to draw them. With the point creep, and the cost of guide fee, trespass fees, and application fees, ARE YOU NOT TIRED YET.

I am just saying look around!


-O,- 

Kirk


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

Ya sounds like archery is getting the butt of the rut or maybe not any of it...though I will say hunting the extended season(which LE archery tag holders can hunt now) is one of the coolest things about archery I am enjoying...hunting aug-dec for elk and sept-nov for deer...

But I do agree with what you are saying just thought i'd put in a positive note that we do get an area just to ourselves during the archery extended hunt...


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Sorry dude.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

And BTW, you can blame global warming or whatever other weather changer for the rut being off in recent years.


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

30-06-hunter said:


> And BTW, you can blame global warming or whatever other weather changer for the rut being off in recent years.


Isn't it safer to just say its the females fault that the rut ain't happening earlier?


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

The Utah season dates rotate depending on when certain Saturdays hit. I *think* it will 'reset' next year and the archery hunt will probably end on September 16th. I could be wrong but it does rotate around so certain hunts start on Saturdays--particularly the archery hunt and the rifle deer hunt. Some years it helps and some years it bites you in the rear. You knew the season dates before you applied for the hunt.

As for the rifle being in the rut and expo/auction tags--> well that is one dead freakin horse and to complain about it online any further would be stupid. If you want to enact change in the state then get a LARGE group of like minded individuals with lot's of money and time and campaign politically to get it changed. Anything less and your time is better spent elsewhere--at least mine is.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

phorisc said:


> Isn't it safer to just say its the females fault that the rut ain't happening earlier?


But their breeding cycles are partly dependent on the weather and having ideal conditions to mate if I'm not mistaken.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

kirkschopped67 said:


> Have you noticed that over time, bow hunters have lost days in September to hunt Elk in the rut. It is happening in a lot of states. In the past, we would have the whole month of September to bow hunt Elk. Then we lost the last week of September to the gun hunter. Now the season closed for us on September 11 this year.
> 
> The gun season started on the 12th (next day). The last 4 days of the hunt we had gun hunters in there scouting. Why not have a 7 day gap and give the animals a break. You only had up to the 8th before the gun hunters and all there groupies arrived in camp destroying the end of the season. This is a LE tag that may take 10 years or longer to get.


I agree. I would like to see the early rifle and muzzleloader hunt moved back in the year. In a lot of areas elk are still bugling October 1st.

Though, it is a supply and demand issue. States with early elk rut rifle hunts generate more applicants and therefore more money to the state.

If I was you, I would look into Idaho, Colorado, or Wyoming for rut archery elk. In Idaho the elk tag for a non resident is $415 and there are areas with screaming bulls that don't have wolves that can be had. The Utah LE Elk tag is $285 a $120 dollar difference which is 12 times not eating fast food. The license is $150, but you can still hunt. Some of the A tags have draw rifle units, so it would be a pretty good deal. Colorado is $620 for an elk tag, but you just have to buy the $10 habitat stamp. There are a ton of great OTC opportunities for archery elk in Colorado. General Season elk in Wyoming is another good hunt option. Non resident special is a general tag every year to other year at $1,017 and non resident regular is a tag at $591 is a tag every 2-3 years. The best part about Wyoming is that you can go back with the rifle.



kirkschopped67 said:


> When are we going to stand up and take back archery as we knew it. The gun hunters are in there killing Elk at 15 yards during the full blown rut. Hunting the LE archery tag will never allow us to experience the rutting action during the full rut. If the rut comes late, like this year, you are out.
> 
> Now the states are taking tag away from us, and selling them in the form of Landowner Tags, Auction Tags, and the Governor's Tag. What other bull**** tag are they going to come up with.
> 
> ...


Also, I do agree about archery should be during the rut, but at the same time there are other ways to hunt elk with a bow in the early season. The rut allows for people to find elk easier, but how much more rewarding would the hunt be if you didn't need the rut to kill an elk. The harder a hunt is, the more rewarding the success will be.

I'll disagree about Guide fees, all the guides I know are good people and are vastly underpaid for their time.

Trespass Fees are what they are, it's their land and they can do what they please with it.

Application fees, well I have a love hate relationship with these. Applying to different states is not cheap, but it is my favorite part of hunting - the research.

Auction tags and governors tags do a lot for conservation, but are the selling opportunities to those who have more. If, I had the expendable resources - I would spend it this way.

Utah does not have a big elk herd and manages toward trophy animals. If you want to hunt during the rut with a bow, your best bet would be to put your name in as many hunting application hats as possible. While waiting for a Utah draw you can hunt other states. Utah's population is growing and what is now a ten year draw will be a fifteen year draw, you may only get too hunt it two to three times in your lifetime.

2c


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

I have been arguing this for years. This year is the worst out of the cycles. It ends on the 11th. Next year, it will end on the 17th and then go down one day at a time until it's on the 11th again and we start over. There is a HUGE opportunity for next years hunters that this years didn't get. 

When doing my survey for this years limited Elk Archery, when asked if my hunt was "somewhat satisfied", Very Satisfied" etc... I told them, "That is a tough question. I just killed the bull of a lifetime and I am very satisfied with the outcome of my hunt but I am far from satisfied when it comes to the season dates." I told them that they should allow the archers to go to the 25th of September and I didn't even care if they didn't let them start until Labor Day and then the muzzle loader comes in for their week and a half and then the any weapon. It makes no sense that the least primitive weapon is during the rut. It makes no sense that the second most primitive weapon is the final opportunity for all hunters let alone the guys who have held out for a "Premium" Tag. 

Bottom line is that this argument has gone on for years and has always fell on deaf ears. I don't believe that my voice is going to affect anything.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Have to agree with Airborne and 2:22 this was the earliest the hunt will end. But everybody that put in should have known that and should have accepted that or returned the tag.

I will agree that this years hunt was a lot different than past years as far as how the elk were acting, but there were still bulls to work and the guys I was helping had a great time even though they didn't fill their tags.

And yes the friend who had a rifle tag shot one of the bulls opening morning that the archers had been try to get on for a week at 68 yards.

There are not enough archers in Utah to fight the gun hunt during the rut.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

30-06-hunter said:


> And BTW, you can blame global warming or whatever other weather changer for the rut being off in recent years.


wrong. Estrous cylces and the rut are caused by increased melotonin levels driven by the amount of light versus darkness in a given day. The peak of the rut will happen within a week or so of the Autumnal Equinox year in and year out and will be affected more so by moon phases than anything else. This is all very well documented. You may notice more activity during certain cold snaps at the right time but the weather does not affect the timing of the rut or cows going into heat.

The Autumnal Equinox happens either on 22nd or 23 of September every year.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> ...Estrous cylces and the rut are caused by increased melotonin levels driven by the amount of light versus darkness in a given day...


Yep, ^^^this. I would also add that diet throughout the summer months helps to kick start things as well. If they have the carbs stored up, from a survival standpoint, it's time to date. If not, then survival says no, use those few carbs you have to get you through the lean winter months ahead.

The only thing that saves UT on monies generated for elk hunting is the fact you can buy an OTC General Archery and go anywhere in the state. Those funds offset the potential that could be generated from the relatively few LE permits issued. Most western states (the ones I'm familiar with anyway) do not have a rifle season in Sept, they are in the middle of Oct. I know NM and CO are this way.

I would submit it is only a matter of time before the season dates and lengths pattern after other western states - complete draw for good units with more permits available and no OTC opportunity in that unit, archery from Sept 1 to about the 22nd, rifle and muzzy in early Oct.

The cartel cannot stay in power forever (especially if RMEF ousts SFW!!)


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> wrong. Estrous cylces and the rut are caused by increased melotonin levels driven by the amount of light versus darkness in a given day. The peak of the rut will happen within a week or so of the Autumnal Equinox year in and year out and will be affected more so by moon phases than anything else. This is all very well documented. You may notice more activity during certain cold snaps at the right time but the weather does not affect the timing of the rut or cows going into heat.
> 
> The Autumnal Equinox happens either on 22nd or 23 of September every year.


Finally, the voice of reason.

Elk in the zoo in Florida rut about the same time as elk in Wyoming's high country.

.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

wyogoob said:


> Finally, the voice of reason.
> 
> .


 I don't whether to frame that and hang over my headboard or just take a chance and rub the screen, just once, in the face of my wife.


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

30-06-hunter said:


> But their breeding cycles are partly dependent on the weather and having ideal conditions to mate if I'm not mistaken.


I was just looking for a reason to blame females  lol


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## kirkschopped67 (Sep 8, 2015)

You guys are correct about turning the tag back. I had two chances to do so, I blew that. There may have been a hunter that would have wanted that tag and been able to hunt them in velvet early. It would still be nice that season dates were scheduled according to weapon type. Sure be nice to hunt Elk though the month of September and then have a 5-7 day break so the next group did not run you over. I guess I am saying that are government makes decisions that put money in their pocket and screw how much it costs us. We need to vote them out. 

Kirk


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

I get what your saying. The archery elk hunt it a tough hunt for the LE. But having said that, it's also a much easier draw in most areas. You win some, you lose some. You move it to the heart of the rut, and it'll become a much more difficult draw.

JMHO


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