# Dark to dark?



## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

For all you expert mule deer hunters, do you hunt from first light until after sunset? I'm two days into the hunt on the Cache and haven't seen anything in the mornings. Wondering if I should stay out later?

Also, if you know exactly where the deer are in the Cache I will gladly accept your OnX coordinates. That's a joke


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

There may not be deer there in the mornings. On the Cache, there may not be deer there at all. 

My evening hunting has always been more productive, but that doesn't mean there aren't critters in the morning.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you mean by a hour before daylight and a least a half hour after the sun goes down, yes that is how I hunt. 

If I head back to camp during the day I am back out looking by 3 pm or a little bit earlier.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I second Caddis’ deer herd comment comment. They have issues up there. Way too many tags and not enough deer.

That said, many times you will get a mid-morning movement of deer as they re-bed when the sun finally gets to them after their first bedding. Takes patience (and honestly more than I usually have these days), but catching that late morning / early afternoon 
hiccup can be productive.

Like Critter, it u call it in the morning, I like to be out no later than 3:30 or 4.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

That would also dependon where I'm hunting. I've sat dark to dark a lot up on the Cache. I've hunted a lot of evenings. I've shot deer in the middle of the day. 

The time I really sit all day is the opener because people will be bumping critters all day long and you never know when someone will push something to you. High traffic or high pressure, I sit all day.

We used to hunt way back in the hills and there wasn't a chance I was going to walk out of that only to walk back in. Mountain naps are pretty special- especially with some sun on you and a nice bed of pine needles. With colder temps, I wouldn't be suprised if there is some pre-rut activity anyway with bucks starting to move in the day. The magic hours of hunting are always the first 2 hours of daylight (in place before daylight) and the last 2 hours of light. I've shot ( and at) way more critters in the evenings.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok disclaimer, my grand daughter and grand son probably killed the last 2 bucks on the Cache. Sorry about that.

One about 8:00 AM and the other About 9:30 AM. I was actually surprised by their success. I have not seen many bucks this year. Both were feeding and not being pushed.

I don't have the desire to hunt dark to dark anymore but when I was younger we would sit mornings and the push during the day, then sit in the evening.

With the tag cuts on the Cache I will say this is the fewest hunters I've ever seen in our area. The general elk hunt was much more crowed.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

First 30 and last 30 minutes > all other minutes of the day. We call it "magic hour".

Ditto for fishing... although the last 30 seem to greatly outweigh even the first 30.


-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Funny. I call the period between 8:30-9:00 magic hour.

Every kill I've ever made was in the am.


Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

KineKilla said:


> Funny. I call the period between 8:30-9:00 magic hour.
> 
> Every kill I've ever made was in the am.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


You haven't had fun until you are looking for blood with a flashlight after dark thirty.
Then taking care of the deer or elk wearing headlamps.

I have shot quite a few of both deer and elk as the sun disappears over the hill to the west.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I’ve seen 40+ bucks shot in the morning and only about 20 killed in the evening. My experience has been during high pressure hunts and locations, like the rifle season, your odds of killing a buck are better in the morning than evening. Deer travel more at night and are more likely to be caught in the open at first light, then they are towards the end of the day. With that said, 2/3 of my biggest bucks were shot at last light. But were in low pressure areas. I’d pick to hunt the morning over evening. But the even can produce as well.

Big bucks that go nocturnal, are more likely to be seen in the mornings from what I’ve seen. A cloudy cold morning where it stays darker longer is the best time to be out looking


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> You haven't had fun until you are looking for blood with a flashlight after dark thirty.
> 
> Then taking care of the deer or elk wearing headlamps.


Guess what showed up from Amazon today.... hint, same thing we didnt have in the pitch black a few nights ago...

-DallanC


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## flyfisher20 (Aug 5, 2011)

I've hunted the Cache unit all my life (strictly the muzzy the last 8 years). Especially over the last 4 years I've seen a dramatic decrease in number and quality of bucks in my area.


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

This year has been a really rough year on the Cache. I really think all species numbers are down. I have not seen very many elk or deer in the usual places. I have been trying new spots and have seen a few here and there. The biggest thing that I have noticed is all the side by sides. Nothing against that. I just don't see the people pushing and bumping animals around like they used to. I have seen few hunters off the roads. I really think that they need to cut all tags for a while for that unit to rebuild. I know that the winters have been pretty bad up there for the last few years as well. The Cache is a second home to me and I would love to see it rebound. Good luck on your hunt. 

Maverick, What areas have you been hunting?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I saw predictions for an above average winter for snowfall in Northern Utah this year, and colder than normal temps as well. If your range up there is in as bad of shape as it is in some other areas, that could be a disaster for game herds up there this winter.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> I saw predictions for an above average winter for snowfall in Northern Utah this year, and colder than normal temps as well. If your range up there is in as bad of shape as it is in some other areas, that could be a disaster for game herds up there this winter.


As opposed to the continued disaster of the last several years? Someone in my group used to always shoot a good deer. It takes a lot of hard work, but there are some good ones around still. Logan Canyon is way too busy, followed up by Blacksmith (lots of private there), Providence, Millville. All the canyons are busy and the side by side traffic has been crazy. My in laws have a cabin in Farmington Canyon and I don't even like to drive up the canyon during the summer because of the crowds with a large share of idiots. Not all of the traffic are morons.

Back the Cache, I grew up in Hyde Park and shot a cow elk not 5 miles from my house. Don't see them anymore. Used to cross country ski up Hyde Park Canyon in the winter and see some very nice deer. Don't see them anymore. But there are some whoppers in town these days!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm simply talking about what Mother Nature might do. The rest is up to you guys to fight about, I guess.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The Cache has had more moisture this summer than any other part of the state. But yes it is still very dry.

The deer studies on the Cache indicate poor fawn survival. I don't believe that is caused by too many hunters. And I believe it was about 1800 tags they cut this year.

Yes there are more people living and recreating on the unit than ever before and range conditions are not the best but the DWR / Forest Service has been pretty proactive in trying to improve the forage for deer.

You are never going to put the genie back in the bottle as far as vehicle traffic is concerned.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

....crepuscular


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

middlefork said:


> Yes there are more people living and recreating on the unit than ever before and range conditions are not the best but the DWR / Forest Service has been pretty proactive in trying to improve the forage for deer.
> 
> You are never going to put the genie back in the bottle as far as vehicle traffic is concerned.


But I can wish for days gone by......

There are still some really big deer around, just harder to find.


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## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

hunting777 said:


> This year has been a really rough year on the Cache. I really think all species numbers are down. I have not seen very many elk or deer in the usual places. I have been trying new spots and have seen a few here and there. The biggest thing that I have noticed is all the side by sides. Nothing against that. I just don't see the people pushing and bumping animals around like they used to. I have seen few hunters off the roads. I really think that they need to cut all tags for a while for that unit to rebuild. I know that the winters have been pretty bad up there for the last few years as well. The Cache is a second home to me and I would love to see it rebound. Good luck on your hunt.
> 
> Maverick, What areas have you been hunting?


I've mainly been sticking to the Mt. Naomi Wilderness area to specifically avoid the ATVs. Accessing it through the Richmond WMA and another spot along the Utah/Idaho border.


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## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

Thanks, everyone. I ask because if I'm not seeing deer on mornings or evenings I wonder if I'm wasting my time. Not even seeing fresh sign in what seems to be prime muley habitat. 

As it normally goes, I saw deer on my elk hunt and elk on my deer hunt. 😂


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## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

middlefork said:


> The Cache has had more moisture this summer than any other part of the state. But yes it is still very dry.
> 
> The deer studies on the Cache indicate poor fawn survival. I don't believe that is caused by too many hunters. And I believe it was about 1800 tags they cut this year.
> 
> ...


Based on what I'm seeing (not seeing), this would seem to be accurate. I have tried multiple times to get in touch with the DWR biologist up here and no response.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Anyone else remember when around 10 months ago the DWR came out and said there’s more deer in Utah than ever before?? Hahahahaha hahahahahaha that was hilarious


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

MooseMeat said:


> Anyone else remember when around 10 months ago the DWR came out and said there's more deer in Utah than ever before?? Hahahahaha hahahahahaha that was hilarious


 I could be wrong but I think it was before 10 months ago. Maybe 14? Anyway the numbers on the Cache have been low for several years and that has been well documented.


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

I'm going to send you a pm to chat about specifics. I've been up there a lot too, I'm dedicated on the unit. I only hunt the north cache cause there's no roads and I like that. 
This summer I actually saw way more deer than last. The archery opener I counted 26 bucks from my glassing knob. I saw good groups in other areas as well through out archery season. I didn't kill any, hence my profile name, but I saw a ton and had a lot of fun trying. I missed one during the muzzleloader hunt but again did see some good groups of bucks. 
They've cut tags and statistically, there's less deer up there overall. Yet from last year to this year I've seen way more deer, and a couple dandy bucks, so I'm not sure what that means. Again I'll pm you


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Increase the tags on the Cache.....for cats and bears, and get your deer herd back!


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

shaner said:


> Increase the tags on the Cache.....for cats and bears, and get your deer herd back!


Cache is under a year round harvest objective quota for cougar (meaning an unlimited number of tags can be purchased over the counter), and this past years quota remains unfilled. Next year the quota will be unlimited, though I'm guessing no more that 25-30 will be taken, about the same as the last few years average, which has pretty much been maximum harvest.

Cache still has a low bear population estimated at 50-60 individuals, but that is up from the 5-15 that was estimated 30 years ago. The majority of bear tags issued on for the Cache unit remain unfilled, it's a big area with a small population and they are tough to find. Given the estimated population of deer and bear on the Cache, and considering the average number of deer taken by bear annually, you could literally wipe out every bear on the unit and the uptick to the deer population would be statistically insignificant.

So while simple solutions are appealing to some, the challenges faced by the Cache deer herd are far more complex.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

I wish Utah would do what Idaho does, not sure if Idaho does this state wide though?
Allow Utah hunters, during the deer hunt specified on their tag, to use said deer tag to kill a bear or cougar if given the chance.
The hunter would have to use their tag on the bear or cougar and forfeit the chance for a deer but how awesome is that!
Since the Cache is unlimited quota on cats, it sounds to me like the perfect place to begin a trial like this on that unit.
We all win with increased predator control and what an awesome opportunity for the hunter out enjoying the woods.
I wonder how many hunters would support an opportunity like this on the Cache?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Why not just purchase a bear and or a cougar tag along with your deer/elk tag? 

Then you have the chance to shoot all three or four depending on the tags that you have. 

Back when I first started hunting I always had a bear and a cougar tag with me when I was hunting deer.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Because you take hunting serious enough to purchase the extra tags.
I would guess that 50% of the Cache hunters would not purchase the extra tag but would gladly exchange their deer tag for a bear or cat.
The hunter gets the extra opportunity, is thrilled with the experience, and a buck stays on the hoof for the next guy/season.
Win/win/win.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The hounds men like Kevin D may not view it as a win. 

I think the data has shown that there are some areas where bear and lion numbers need to be reduced. I don't think that is equal across the board throughout the whole state, however. 

I have seen bears in Utah only twice while helping others on hunts, but never when I've had my own tag of any kind in hand. I have never seen a mountain lion in the wild. While I think many mule deer hunters would think this is a cool opportunity, I doubt it would do much to reduce predator populations. That's probably why Idaho is able to do it: Not many hunters have the opportunity, let alone take the opportunity if it is presented.


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## ShedyGaGa (Oct 12, 2019)

You could hunt 24/7 in Northern Utah and not see a buck worth shooting thanks to DWR’s amazing management plan. Double up on buck hunts, then throw in doe hunts, muzzy hunt, archery hunt.....then all of the long range technology for both muzzy’s and rifles.....the deer don’t stand a chance any more when they are being hunted to extinction. But heck.....keep selling those tags because people will keep buying those expensive camping permits.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The knee jerk reaction that the fix to Utah's deer herds is to reduced more tags and increase predator management has proven to be ineffective. They are still struggling.

Cut all the tags. They are not coming back.

In the last 60+ years I have seen one cat and no bears on the Cache. I have seen cats on other units and bears too. In past years the coyotes have been thick but the past couple of years even they have been less.

But even with all that I have seen some amazing deer taken on the unit, even this year.


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## ShedyGaGa (Oct 12, 2019)

I’ve hunted the same area for deer for the past 30 years. When they introduced the “early rifle” hunt along with the regular rifle hunt, the area went down hill fast. I used to see 4 point bucks in every canyon that I hunted. Two years ago I saw none. Just a few small 2 points and a 2x3. Last year, a couple 2 points. This year, 25 does in one canyon. I have watched folks plinking 2 points down in the hell holes that typically would not see a hunter in unless it was BIG. People are now desperate in this area and are willing to shoot the first legal buck they see because that is all that’s left. There used to never be trails on certain ridges. Now there are dirt paths made by hunters. Word got out. The slaughter began. With today’s technology, these animals do not stand a chance. Then you add lions. Just saying....a 3 point or better rule would be nice to at least allow the yearlings a chance to put some meat on their bones.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a better idea.
Add Lions and bears to the coyote bounty program and pay $50 each for them.
After all, that fund was set up to protect/restore mule deer numbers.
I look at it this way:
If I have a chicken coop full of chickens and a fox gets in it, I’m doing everything I can to kill that fox even if it means I only save one chicken.
Granted, I may have only saved one chicken but it is a start...


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I know, lets just give Don Peay a few million and let him handle all the predator problems in Utah, why heck, we won't even have to ask what he spends the money on. He's the savor of hunting in the West, praise God for Don Peay and the enlightenment he has brought to our sport.


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## ShedyGaGa (Oct 12, 2019)

I see your point. But when the dwr is willing to ignore the other problem of too many tags and hunts, then protecting mule deer through a bounty program will not help the cause. They know what they’re doing in this area. Trying to kill off a species because the ignorant homeowners down below the herds don’t want their roses eaten by the deer.


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## TravisBiggie (Mar 5, 2021)

If we are all hunters here, I have a question about the flashlight. I need a powerful flashlight to catch a larger radius so I can see the night of the field rabbits. Who can help me with this flashlight? I need an online store and quality things. I have on my bike headlight in front so strong that it catches a distance of a few kilometers , but for hunting I can't find such a flashlight that captures a distance of a few kilometers. I once saw a hunting-blogger on youtube who had such a flashlight, but I forgot where he said he bought it. I hope you can help me find it.


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## twinkielk15 (Jan 17, 2011)

TravisBiggie said:


> If we are all hunters here, I have a question about the flashlight. I need a powerful flashlight to catch a larger radius so I can see on the field at night all the rabbits. Who can help me with this flashlight?


Since you started your question out with a condition that we all be hunters and I suspect some of us are anglers, I'm afraid this doesn't merit a response. Nice try, Mr. Bot!


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

ShedyGaGa said:


> ...a 3 point or better rule would be nice to at least allow the yearlings a chance to put some meat on their bones.


Except you'll see a bunch of dead 2 points laying around just like the last time they tried it. they shoot first then check.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Except you'll see a bunch of dead 2 points laying around just like the last time they tried it. they shoot first then check.


I see that now..

People out group hunting shooting a small buck and then trying to find a tag when most of those in their group want bigger bucks.

I come across 2 or 3 bucks a year when I am out hunting in Utah where this has happened and most of them are shot from roads which make them so much easier to find when the birds fly up off of the dead ones.


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## SaltyWalty (Feb 1, 2021)

imean im not an expert, but i try to get in my spot before first light ,and hunting through the day to last light


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