# 2017 Proposed Tag Numbers



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Not sure if this has already been posted, but here are the proposed tag numbers for 2017.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2017-04_rac_packet.pdf

..


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## Xbow123 (Mar 7, 2017)

Expected a few more tags to be recommended for the new mid season le elk hunts.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Big changes in the bison pool. :shock:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Catherder said:


> Big changes in the bison pool. :shock:


The permit increase on the Book Cliffs is pretty cool to see! They only started issuing tags out there in the last 10 years, right? And now 67 tags being recommended? That is successful management, no matter how you slice it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The bison in the Book Cliffs are so successful that a few of them have migrated over into Colorado where they can be shot without a permit. 

I called the bison biologist in Vernal and he was going to contact one from Price that takes care of that side of the Book Cliffs but I guess that they didn't want to haze them away from the Colorado line when I reported it. 

I have been tempted to go find them in Colorado and get one without spending money for a tag. I know a couple of people that have seen them across the line.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

And it looks to me like the archery OIAL tags for the Henry's Any Bison hunts might have created an extra 5 tags, but it is hard to say. The any weapon tags went down by 5, but the archery any bison tags are recommended at 10, which is a net gain of 5 permit holders getting a chance this fall if approved. But the cow permits also went up by 21, so maybe there was going to be a 5 permit increase anyway. I'd be interested if anybody has info on that, if they'd post it up. The archery goat hunt appears to have taken 2 tags from the any weapon pool to create the archery hunt, so no net gains there. But for those that kept applying for the any weapon hunt in that unit, there probably is some marginal benefit to their odds as people left the any weapon pool to apply in the archery pool. 

It is possible the DWR is planning on seeing the harvest rates on these archery tags before assuming a different kill % than the any weapon hunts for future tag recommendations.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Critter said:


> The bison in the Book Cliffs are so successful that a few of them have migrated over into Colorado where they can be shot without a permit.
> 
> I called the bison biologist in Vernal and he was going to contact one from Price that takes care of that side of the Book Cliffs but I guess that they didn't want to haze them away from the Colorado line when I reported it.
> 
> I have been tempted to go find them in Colorado and get one without spending money for a tag. I know a couple of people that have seen them across the line.


I'm going to have to look into this, because it just seems too good to be true...but if it is....hmmmm


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

I'm not seeing a Morgan South Rich Henefer Echo WMA hunt in the antlerless elk hunt recommendations for this year. Anyone know what's up with that!?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is just a small number like around 4 or 5. So without actually knowing just where they are wondering around at it could be time consuming. I know a couple of times that I went looking I didn't find them but then talked to a friend that found them and thought that they had escaped from a ranch. I went back a week or so later and they were nowhere to be found again.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks. It's always exciting when the permit numbers come out.



Catherder said:


> Big changes in the bison pool. :shock:


Look at Wild Horse Bench/Nine Mile - 42 tags! Last year 415 people applied for the Wild Horse Bench hunt. If that many people apply again, we'd be seeing roughly a 1 in 10 supply:demand ratio. Not bad at all. Of course, with the new boundary and expanded season dates, I expect it will get some more interest this year than it did last year.

I'm also shocked to see 10 archery bison tags issued on the Henry's. I was expecting 2 or 3. I think we could see some VERY good odds on those tags.

It's almost making me second-guess my decision to apply for desert bighorns (no way I'm quitting, though). And honestly, an increase of 11 desert bighorn permits is much better than I would have expected. I'm thrilled. I'll be competing with the other applicants in my chosen unit for 2 regular tags, rather than the 1 I expected. If I knew what was coming, I might have applied for Kaiparowits, East instead. Big jump in tag numbers there.

Interesting antlerless options as well. I think I'll make a play for the new August doe antelope tag on the Plateau. Maybe try to double up with a Pine Valley doe deer tag and/or an elk tag on Markagunt Plateau with the same seasons. That would make for a great summer vacation. I think I'd draw Markagunt Plateau, not sure about the others...

Also glad to see cow moose tags again. That's a fun (albeit slight) possibility to have.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

3arabians said:


> I'm not seeing a Morgan South Rich Henefer Echo WMA hunt in the antlerless elk hunt recommendations for this year. Anyone know what's up with that!?


Looks like the Morgan-South Rich unit took a big cut in tag numbers this year (page 19). 330 last year, down to 185 this year. The population appears to be holding steady, and right in line with their management goals. I guess they don't think that hunt is necessary this year.

I wonder how many elk were killed with the private land only tags last year. Not much need for a public hunt if private hunters are taking care of the excess population.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Clarq said:


> Look at Wild Horse Bench/Nine Mile - 42 tags! Last year 415 people applied for the Wild Horse Bench hunt. If that many people apply again, we'd be seeing roughly a 1 in 10 supply:demand ratio. Not bad at all.


No kidding. Make me kind of regret jumping from that hunt to the Books cow hunt. However, there were 12 cow tags recommended as well, which was more than I expected, so we'll see how it goes. Either way, I'm not sniffing the bonus pool for some time, so it still is luck of the draw.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Clarq said:


> Looks like the Morgan-South Rich unit took a big cut in tag numbers this year (page 19). 330 last year, down to 185 this year. The population appears to be holding steady, and right in line with their management goals. I guess they don't think that hunt is necessary this year.
> 
> I wonder how many elk were killed with the private land only tags last year. Not much need for a public hunt if private hunters are taking care of the excess population.


I just can't imagine they would discontinue that hunt. It's a migration hunt that helps manage the Deseret Land and Livestock herd. I'll have to make a call it looks like

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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

Still disagree with the Archery only hunts, I still think it is a slippery slope and wonder when the Muzzleloader crew will jump on the wagon. Thank God sheep wasn't included in the special interest grab. Done complaining....carry on, nothing to see here


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I might be able to hunt bison sometime in my lifetime after all! Crap, I better get in shape! 

Some drastic cuts to some cow elk hunts. About a 30% cut statewide.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Vanilla said:


> I might be able to hunt bison sometime in my lifetime after all! Crap, I better get in shape!
> 
> Some drastic cuts to some cow elk hunts. About a 30% cut statewide.


And my favorite hunt seems to be missing from the report entirely..

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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

3arabians said:


> And my favorite hunt seems to be missing from the report entirely..
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Any chance that it is one of the renamed units or part of a unit border change?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Looks like solid numbers to me,
Almost exactly what I expected.

With the winter we just had , a reduction of only 1,625 GS deer permits is really not bad.
Some were predicting a disaster winter kill, I never saw it.
2017 permit numbers reflect exactly what I witnessed all winter.
The increase in deer doe permits is big.

Love the Buff increase, AWESOME!

Antlerless numbers interesting, But good IMO.
I like the 'backing off' on antler less elk, the Manti really caught my eye.

Wasatch elk continues to be interesting,
78 mid-season permits? that surprised me.:shock:..
Only 16 mid-season on the Manti, interesting.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

johnnycake said:


> 3arabians said:
> 
> 
> > And my favorite hunt seems to be missing from the report entirely..
> ...


Not that I can tell and I have been in a scramble for the past 90 minutes trying to figure this out (emailed the DWR already and will call first thing Monday morning). Like Clarq mentioned the antlerless elk reduction for the Morgan South Rich was obvious. 330 tags down to 185 or so - but the herd population is even with last year's estimate. Henefer Echo WMA has given out about 135 tags the last few years so that makes up a huge portion of the reduction. Puzzled.......

Side note, I am pleased the deer tags weren't reduced very much. As goofy stated; I don't think the winter kill was as bad as we all thought. Cache took the brunt of it again.

Another thing that jumped out at me was that the South Cache LE Elk tags took a 15 tag reduction across all LE elk hunts in the second year of the increased age objective for that unit. This was the biggest reduction for an LE elk unit that I noticed that doesn't have a mid rifle LE hunt. Maybe a mid rifle hunt is coming to the south cache next year?


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Anybody hunt for doe prong around snowville ? I imagine the public land is pretty tight in that area, but figured I'd ask. I have 6 shiny doe pronghorn points


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Anybody hunt for doe prong around snowville ? I imagine the public land is pretty tight in that area, but figured I'd ask. I have 6 shiny doe pronghorn points
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you agree to put in with me as a group (2 points, resident) I'll send you some details about the area via PM... :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Goof, the Manti was certainly one that caught my eye as well. Also, zero draw tags on whole Wasatch East.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Might have shot to draw archery bison be interesting to see how many applications applied

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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Goof, the Manti was certainly one that caught my eye as well. Also, zero draw tags on whole Wasatch East.


They are 2 or 3 years late getting rid of LE Wasatch east cow permits!

I like the cut back on Manti, Finally a change at the right time.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

[[http://utahwildlife.net/forum/







showthread.php?t=172761


Xbow123 said:


> Expected a few more tags to be recommended for the new mid season le elk hunts.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Interesting numbers for my preferred unit. Pretty much cuts across the board which doesn't match up with what I've been seeing on the mountain the last few years in regards to herd health.

I'm no biologist so I have to assume they know better than I do. A 68% reduction in Antlerless tags will mean lots of spike elk tag soup in camp this fall. 

That's ok, I like mine with a touch of garlic and a sprig of parsley.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I think overall the numbers are good. I don't like all the doe hunts. A few of those hunts I know are likely specifically targeted to please a few farmers who don't like the deer coming into their fields. The DWR has worked with them with depredation tags and all, a few of those areas are small units with quite a few tags for such tiny areas. Other than what seems to be overkill on doe deer some places everything looks pretty great to me.


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## OriginalOscar (Sep 5, 2016)

Last month I asked DWR about winter kill. He said winter is not over (No S#&%) and March is the key month because they can lose lots of animals during green up. 

Isn't it premature to set tag numbers?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

OriginalOscar said:


> Last month I asked DWR about winter kill. He said winter is not over (No S#&%) and March is the key month because they can lose lots of animals during green up.
> 
> Isn't it premature to set tag numbers?


Yes, when the deer transition from woody vegetation like sagebrush to green vegetation it can be the most dangerous time for the animals. We are just getting into the "winter kill" part of the year. This is when the majority of winter kill happens is from here forward.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

They can still change the numbers in a heart beat, they are not final and set in stone yet but just recommendations.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Critter said:


> They can still change the numbers in a heart beat, they are not final and set in stone yet but just recommendations.


Yes but they probably won't change much.
I think they are leaving most of the gen. deer numbers about the same as last year because they don't really know what to expect at this point.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

As stated, these are just proposed numbers. Final numbers will be set by Wildlife Board after all these recommendations go through the RACs. That is over a month away. They could very easily drastically reduce these numbers if March showed a large winter kill necessitating a reduction.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Glad to see Wasatch cow numbers as low as they are. A few years to late but it's a start


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

goofy elk said:


> Antlerless numbers interesting, But good IMO.
> I like the 'backing off' on antler less elk


i am all for it , hope they rebound , its gonna take 4 points for antlerless elk in that area

i am hoping they open up that Bonneville salt flats unit for antlerless elk, i hear its really easy to see them once you find em , except for the albinos ... its a great place for hikers that dont like to climb


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

:der:


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

looks like i got some thinking to do for some antlers tags.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

OriginalOscar said:


> Last month I asked DWR about winter kill. He said winter is not over (No S#&%) and March is the key month because they can lose lots of animals during green up.
> 
> Isn't it premature to set tag numbers?


Uhhh...actually no. Unless, of course, you are talking about antlerless deer tags. But, antlerless deer tags are mostly due to depredation issues. So, winterkill probably won't affect them.

Remember, harvesting the excess bucks won't affect the overall population. All it does is lower the buck/doe ratio and will have little effect on the overall population. So, setting tag numbers before winter is over is not that big of a deal.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

For those interested here is the response I received from the DWR about the missing Henefer Echo WMA antlerless elk hunt in the recommendations:

The biologists are recommending the unit be cancelled as the elk population meets the wintering range on the Henefer Echo WMA and we would like to hit surrounding areas. 
However, this is just a recommendation, this will need to be approved through the Wildlife Board. If you would like to hear and talk more about this recommendation please plan to attend the RAC meeting on 3/29 at 6:00 PM at the Brigham City Community Center 24 n 300 w Brigham City.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

hazmat said:


> Glad to see Wasatch cow numbers as low as they are. A few years to late but it's a start


Tony on MM brought this to my attention,
There is a new, 400 permit Wasatch muzzle loader cow hunt for 2017...

Runs during the ML spike elk hunt, interesting.


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## elkantlers (Feb 27, 2014)

goofy elk said:


> Tony on MM brought this to my attention,
> There is a new, 400 permit Wasatch muzzle loader cow hunt for 2017...
> 
> *Runs during the ML spike elk hunt*, interesting.


Also runs through the Late any bull hunt. 400 cow hunters running around during a limited entry bull hunt ought to be fun. :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I had missed that muzzy cow hunt too! What exactly is the "Wasatch West-Central" area? 

elkantlers - The late LE hunt is Nov 11-19. This proposed muzzy cow hunt is Nov 1-9. So not the same dates as the LE hunt, but during the muzzy spike hunt, as goofy stated.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

elkantlers said:


> Also runs through the Late any bull hunt. 400 cow hunters running around during a limited entry bull hunt ought to be fun. :mrgreen:


No, it dose not.

The cow permits are Nov. 1st--Nov.9th.

The limited entry late is Nov. 11th--Nov.19th.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

LOL,
TS, looks like we were posting the same response, AT THE SAME TIME..:grin:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Any idea what the "Wasatch West-Central" area would be?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Any idea what the "Wasatch West-Central" area would be?


Check the back of the RAC packet. The map is included.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Clarq said:


> Check the back of the RAC packet. The map is included.


Well...duh! Thanks for pointing out what SHOULD have been obvious. I'm a dummy sometimes.

Interesting proposition on the boundary, changing it up to include a small extra portion around Strawberry. Nothing like inconsistent boundaries to keep everyone straight!


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

I totally missed those muzzy tags. I wonder what their plan is with the new Wasatch boundaries


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## elkantlers (Feb 27, 2014)

goofy elk said:


> No, it dose not.
> 
> The cow permits are Nov. 1st--Nov.9th.
> 
> The limited entry late is Nov. 11th--Nov.19th.


My mistake. Either I need to get glasses or they need to increase the size of their font cause I totally misread that.


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