# Glutton for Punishment



## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

Like the title said Im a glutton for punishment So hit the MP near Jordanelle Wow there lots of people there. Ended up walking from the dam all the way to the Highway and them some.

Netted about a dozen or so 12 to 14 inch browns did manage catching one 16 incher ... Is it just me did the size of the fish there getting smaller ???


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## Riden (Jun 16, 2011)

Good on ya man ... I was there yesterday a little lower and it was packed down that way as well ... Still found plenty of room though ... I'm still on the hunt for a hog outta there ... Lots of smaller guys hut still tons of fun!


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

It is sad what is happening to our two well know blue ribbon fisheries. The Provo and the green average fish size have been on the decline for a couple of years.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> It is sad what is happening to our two well know blue ribbon fisheries. The Provo and the green average fish size have been on the decline for a couple of years.


It's 2011. A couple years? Are you suggesting that the fish were larger than 14-16" in 2009?

Typical fisherman memory. The longer ago the fish was caught, the bigger it was. You know, the "good 'ol days"!


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

PBH said:


> orvis1 said:
> 
> 
> > It is sad what is happening to our two well know blue ribbon fisheries. The Provo and the green average fish size have been on the decline for a couple of years.
> ...


Uh oh here we go again... For PBH's sake in *MY EXPERIENCE* the fish sizes on the Provo and green rivers has declined in recent years. In 2007, 2008, & 2009 the average size of the browns did tend to be larger. I recall catching a brown over 20" on multiple trips and the average size of the browns seemed to be in the mid teens range with very few rainbows caught. The last few trips I have caught a ton of smaller rainbows and the largest brown was in the mid teens and no browns exceeding 17" in size. Once again just *MY EXPERIENCE*.

Of course this is just *MY EXPERIENCE* so I could be completely off base. I am not nor is any member of my family a biologist or have any formal training. So I will leave that to the experts or relatives of the experts.

Is that a good enough disclosure for you PBH?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

FWIW (which isn't much) I agree the fish size at least on the Lower Provo is down from even just a few years ago. I can't say when I started to notice the decline exactly, but the first half of the 2000's I caught nicer fish than I have been the last few years. Not just a fisherman's memory either. I have picture evidence to support my findings. But then again, that is just my personal experience. Maybe I used to be a better fisherman? (I did fish it A LOT more back then than I do now, so my study isn't really all that valid. Just so PBH doesn't eat me up with data!!!  ) 

But as for the Green, I've found just the opposite. The last two years I have found the fish to be more healthy than they have in years. But maybe I am just a better fisherman now than I used to be? (wait...it can't be both ways...can it? :?: ) It may be short lived, but it has been a welcome change to what I was getting used to out there.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

I think you really can't group the entire middle or lower provo together. Overall, there is a huge number of small fish on the middle. Especially through the bunny farm and below river road to the north fields. Minifest. But from the dam to lunker, there is a great population of big fish. Numerous fish from 18" to 25+ inches. Last year I saw numerous fish over 22 inches landed on this stretch, with the largest being taped at 26" by a client of mine and personally a 25.5" fish. Both fish were on small pms dries in early fall.

On the lower, again there are an over-abundance of small fish from county line to olmstead; but from the trestle to the dam I don't think the fish have EVER been as big and healthy as they are now. The closer you get to the dam, the bigger the fish get and the more rainbows you get. The rainbows are just stupid fat and hot. Ever a casual glance at a smallish rainbow through there, you will notice that their heads don't even keep up with their body. They look like flounders. And while it is still **** tough to find a 20 inch brown down there, i'll take super hot 17-20 inch rainbows that shread 3x over a soggy and snakey 21 inch brown that puts up very little fight and you can just strip in. I don't have any doubt that NOW is the time for the"good ole days" on the middle.


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## rdoggsilva (Apr 6, 2011)

I was reading the reason the trout are smaller is because of catch in release. The DWR is asking people to take a few home for dinner, which I'm happy to do. Don't get me wrong I practice catch and release but I also enjoy eating fresh caught trout for dinner. So I am happy to help out the DWR on this one.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Sorry. Incorrect statement. Right now is the good ole days on the lower. The good ole days on the middle were in the late 90's when it still looked like a canal (pre-restoration), no minimum flows, no fancy access points, and no special regs. Talk about over-managing a fishery right into the ground. Im all for keeping fish but I don't see how enough fish will be kept to make a difference with a two fish limit. I would like to see the limit raised to at least 20 but that's just mho. I would even like to see a several day contest where every fish caught under 15 is kept.


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## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

So I got a question, that section on the lower Provo I think its the second pull off from the highway. Were there a small road that dips down into a cove and there's a train bridge and I think a sign that says Woodard or something like that. Is that Private ? I had one guy who was with a rafting company tell me that its owned by some Steve guy and the river rafters have exclusive access to it.


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## Crash (Mar 20, 2008)

I fished the middle last Thursday and missed some good fish. Didn't land a thing though. I did have one brown that easily went over the 18 inch threshold that I missed. I have caught more smaller fish there than I have big fish, but I think that is typical with all the catch and release that happens on this river and others like it. I try to keep a few but I have a hard time keeping something under 14 inches. Their just babies at that point and not much meat on them as well.


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## doody (Apr 2, 2009)

I think it would be nice to open up the Provo to bait fisherman for a trial of a couple years if the research supported it. I couldn't find any specific research on the impacts either way, anybody else have any legit numbers to support a yea or nay? I also think raising the harvest would help too. Ive been trying to keep at least 1 fish per outing but its hard to eat that many fish so often. Now that i think about it, i dont think ive ever seen a fisherman keep anything on either section. Even so, the fishing on both sections is pretty darn good even on a crummy day so it's hard to complain too much. Besides, the steelies from deer creek make up for the smaller browns any day.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Sorry doody but bait fishing has been allowed on the middle provo from legacy bridge to deer creek for 7 years and it still sucks. There are just as many (if not more) dinks on that section than anywhere else. Bottom line is bait fisherman keep the big ones and throw back the small ones. Most people who fish bait on that section only fish the easy to access areas so 98% of it is rarely fished with bait even though it is legal. Nothing is going to change unless they do a big flush every year, and get rid of minimum flows. Let that thing drop down to 40 or 50 cfs in late summer and in winter. This will force all of the juvenile and stunted fish into the main river. Fish will start eating each other and naturally balance out the population. The high water flush will bring back the larger macroinvertebrate population (green drakes, golden stones, yellow sallies, and caddis). The remaining fish will thrive on all of the food and growth rates will rise exponentially. High-low water cycles will keep the didymo at bay. Presto! The river is back to the glory days of the mid to late 90 before people trying to over-manage the river just screwed it up. Dream big because this will never happen. All remaining water shares from jordanelle were sold off last year and from here on out you can plan on flows out of jordanelle at 500-600 cfs for most of the summer with high water flushes highly unlikely. The only reason a flush occured this year is because water from the weber system had to be diverted into the upper provo to minimize flooding on the weber through oakley and peoa. If it wasn't for that hiccup, flows out of jordanelle most likely would not have come up much over 600-700 cfs.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Anglers are waaaaaay behind irrigators for priorities and that will never change. Even on a river that generates as much recreation driven tax dollars as the provo river does. Welcome to Utah, the state where there good ol' boys clubs are the final word in everything.


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

My experience on the MP has been to see many,many more smaller fish since they did the stream restoration around 2003 or 2004 from my memory. In 2002 and prior, the average size was much bigger, I would say the average I personally would catch would be around 15-18 inches consistently. Now you can catch about triple the amount of browns up there that I see average around 10-13 inches.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Sorry. Incorrect statement. Right now is the good ole days on the lower. The good ole days on the middle were in the late 90's when it still looked like a canal (pre-restoration), no minimum flows, no fancy access points, and no special regs. Talk about over-managing a fishery right into the ground. Im all for keeping fish but I don't see how enough fish will be kept to make a difference with a two fish limit. I would like to see the limit raised to at least 20 but that's just mho. I would even like to see a several day contest where every fish caught under 15 is kept.


Hallelujah, amen!!!

20"+ fish were a regular occurrence. I fished that river like it was going to dry up tomorrow back then. As soon as they finished the "restoration", I fished it a few times, threw up in my mouth and drove away. Tonight was actually the first time I have fished the middle in about 8 years. I found myself shaking my head a bit at all of the parking and people. Now all that is left to finish er up is to bring in a starbucks, a convenience store and a fly shop or two along the banks. Afterall, the fashion paraders need a place to get the latest diggs.......

On the upside, the fishing was good. A handful of 15+ in an hour or so. Bitter sweet.


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