# DWR..It aint right!



## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

So here is the situation that I am not happy about. A good friend of mine found a dead head (elf) in the Book Cliffs a couple of years ago. This was an absolute stud of a bull and created a bit of a stir as pictures surfaced on the internet. Very big palmated bull. People even went so far on MM to call him a poacher when he found it and had some pics of it.
He did everything right and left the head on the mountain and GPSed the location and told the fish and game about it so they could investigate the dead elk. 
The DWR has gone in and located the head and retrieved it. Now they wont give him the head.
correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that supposed to be our incentive to do things legal and not bring out the head? don't we have the right to the head if we did things on the up and up? Isn't this the incentive for us to help catch poachers?
I do have copies of the correspondence by email but I prefer not to soil the name of the DWR officer who went in and found the head with my buddies help.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

no I don't think there is any right to the head...if we're talking about rights to dead heads then I think the forest has the ultimate right to it so they should throw it in a wood chipper as to make it into more bite-size pieces for the squirrels and chipmunks 
In these instances...it always comes down to the discretion of the game wardens involved. As with any law enforcement, they have a lot of wiggle room to do what they seem appropriate for a given situation.
A more seasoned conservation officer may have leaned on the side of letting your friend keep the head, but sometimes you're dealing with a rookie who does everything by the book. With the rookie you're probably not gonna be able to take the head home...
Your incentive to turn in poachers should be a desire to do the right thing and a respect for the land and wildlife.
That's my opinion and take being the son of a game warden and having known dozens of game wardens personally.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

gunplay said:


> A good friend of mine found a dead head *(elf)* in the Book Cliffs a couple of years ago.


Is his name Eddy?

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41492

Seriously, Sorry your friend has this issue. However, are there any guidelines or regs that state that he is entitled to the head?


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

stablebuck said:


> Your incentive to turn in poachers should be a desire to do the right thing and a respect for the land and wildlife.
> .


+1000000000000000

and your reward is knowing that you did the whole outdoor community, conservation and wildlife a great service. Too many people obsessed with big racks and that's there only incentive! well you know what I mean


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Motto to live by!!!

No good deed goes unpunished!!!!

You will find this to be true more often than not.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

You cant keep them even if you find them on your own land. I know of a huge bull rotting away on private land. The owner has tried the legal route and had the DWR just keep the head and even give him guff for killing it himself. So this one will go unreported and go back to the forest. I get it. Why wouldn't one just poach a monster call it in as a find and get the rack back. Effectively laundering the kill.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

If you found a stolen car somewhere, would you expect to get the car after you reported it to the police?


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

If and when the DWR has their auction for these type's of items your friend can and should go and bid on the item. If he lets it known to everyone the situation they may cut him some slack and he can get it for a song. I believe this is the way it works. Unless there is an open poaching investigation and they need it for evidence.


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

I've had the same thing happen to me. I know one CO with a garage full of antlers and heads. Frustrating? Yes. I'm not going to soil his name or any other CO name. Its a thankless job and I wouldn't want it. My hat is of to these guys.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

On a good note I once reported a downed 4x4 that was shot from a road in Centerville. I hiked the officer from my house all the way up the hills to where the buck was and he hacked the antlers off for evidence and ran a metal detector through the mounds of deer hair. A couple of months later I got a knock on the door and the officer had the rack in hand and passed it over to me. 

I did not get anymore details on the event but I was also only 12 at the time. You can only imagine the excitement in my eyes when the officer handed me the rack. Anyhow he made no promises when he was investigating so I wonder what the outcome was. I had no expectations of a reward, but I think it is always worth it to report something fishy...


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

I have never really understood why guys want racks of deer they didn't kill? This one befudles me!


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

If I found a big bull or buck, I would want the head. Than again I even like shed horns too. No need to try and understand it.


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

I agree that we should help catch poachers just to help wildlife and catch poacher. I wasn't cleaar as I should have been. The elk was not poached. It died of natuaral causes as far as anyone could tell. I'm not a big shed hunter either buy I will pick them up if I stumble on them. My buddie went out of his way to help the fish and game so it could be investigated. I just think when no discretion was found that he should be able to collect the head.


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree he should get it. :shock:


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> ....Why wouldn't one just poach a monster call it in as a find and get the rack back. Effectively laundering the kill.


I agree 100%. This is why I think it would be bad policy to give antlers back to the "finders." Most finders are probably innocent, but some may not be.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

I've been turned down 3 times. Twice on decent 4x4 bucks and once on a really nice 5x5. I'll keep reporting what I find and I'm happy with how the CO's handled it each time.


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

I think the idea of calling it in so they can investigate the dead animal is why people don't "launder" a dead head. believe me, if the animal is poached, the first person they would suspect is the one who called it in. My friend and I will continue to call them in also out of our duties as a sportsman.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

We found this poached bull while hunting grouse. We called it in with GPS coordinates, but I never thought of asking for the rack. I wouldn't want something I hadn't taken myself.:


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

The general rule is that if you do exactly what you did and they take out metal detectors and such with no findings of foul play, then you usually get it. If they have suspicion of poaching, they usually DON'T let you have it. The poaching and coming back later to pick up the rack is the entire issue. They only let Lion kills, natural deaths and misplaced broadheads usually go to the finder. Not always on the broadhead issue if they have a sense of poaching.


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## Josh (Oct 27, 2008)

I found a bull on the boulders two years ago and the CO was a great guy to deal with. He told me if there were no signs of human caused death and that it died of natural causes that I could have it. They did the investigation and it is now hanging in my garage. Maybe they found that it had been poached or was not recovered on a hunt that year.


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## huntfishcook (Mar 25, 2011)

Any pictures of this Bull?


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Most hunters like antlers...even ones they didn't harvest....Why pick up a shed if you find it? Antlers are just cool and you don't have to have harvested the animal to respect how cool they are!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Do antlers serve any environmental benefit if left where they fall, instead of being added to a pile in the garage?


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Sure they do....they serve as protein and nutrients for small critters and varmits (squirrels, mice, chipmunks, mink, weasels, etc.) right before winter time. However, antlers are not the only source of this. I've picked up antlers that I know are a few years old that haven't even been touched by critters...so obviously that nutrition need is being met somewhere else. 

I'm sure if the trophy class weasel population was struggling then the DWR would put a stop to it! In the mean time, antlers are cool.....enjoy!


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

utahgolf said:


> Do antlers serve any environmental benefit if left where they fall, instead of being added to a pile in the garage?


They act as an aphrodisiac for mice, and squirrels.


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## 4pointmuley (Sep 18, 2007)

Can you say $$$$$$$ for the dwr. That's why they keep the antlers. Look at the money they made from their antler auction! Question is, did the money go back to the wildlife? H'mmm probably not!


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

This was on MM right? Was this the bull that died from a tree falling on it?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

lol if it was the case waspo I am guessing that it was totally staged and is a questionable natural cause of death. 

I feel that Judds response has been the best so far.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Nambaster said:


> lol if it was the case waspo I am guessing that it was totally staged and is a questionable natural cause of death.
> 
> I feel that Judds response has been the best so far.


Couldn't agree more! The story I'm referring to just sounded pretty odd to me...


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

I believe this is the bull he is referring to.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

wow! that is a really unique set of antlers! I can understand why he would like to keep them!


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

If a tree falls in the forest.... no wait... if 3 trees fall in the forest....


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

Awesome horns.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Yep, same bull. Cool antlers, but a fishy find for sure. 3 trees?


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

That is the bull and DWR determined it was not poached, at least as far as they could tell. I agree that it is weird with the 3 trees and We have no idea how it died. 
The DWR did bring the head out so they didn't leave it to add nutrition to the forest critters.


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## huntfishcook (Mar 25, 2011)

Wow. What a Bull!!! I have no opinion on whether it was poached or not but I would want the antlers.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

- echo what ^hfc^ just said...

dang what a unique crown of bone on that bull! ...WOW! 

that straightened guard tine is sweet, and the palmation?!!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

both of those bulls are nice. I would want ether one. It just sad seeing nice bulls going like that. instead from a hunter that took them the right way.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Iron Bear said:


> You cant keep them even if you find them on your own land. I know of a huge bull rotting away on private land. The owner has tried the legal route and had the DWR just keep the head and even give him guff for killing it himself. So this one will go unreported and go back to the forest. I get it. Why wouldn't one just poach a monster call it in as a find and get the rack back. Effectively laundering the kill.


I hate agreeing with IB....but, YUP!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> Iron Bear said:
> 
> 
> > You cant keep them even if you find them on your own land. I know of a huge bull rotting away on private land. The owner has tried the legal route and had the DWR just keep the head and even give him guff for killing it himself. So this one will go unreported and go back to the forest. I get it. Why wouldn't one just poach a monster call it in as a find and get the rack back. Effectively laundering the kill.
> ...


Another example of punishing all for the actions of a VERY few! Nonsensical at best.


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