# Boy have things changed



## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

So I haven't shot my muzzleloader in like 12 or 13 years. I hunted quite a bit with it when I was a kid, but I got into archery hunting and that's pretty much all I do now. 

Well my buddy decided he was going to try the muzzy hunt for the 1st time this year. He was planning on purchasing a new gun from a mutual friend but the deal fell through and he asked if he could borrow mine. Although the gun hasn't been fired in several years, I take it out every now and again to clean it up and make sure it's well taken care of. Well I went over to sportsman's to pick up some powder and bullets so we could go to the range. HOLY COW!!!..... things have definitely changed in the last 12-15 years. PELLETTS????? what in the heck are pellets? AND bullets that look like actual bullets?? 

I've been out of the muzzy game for far too long. I must've had the deer in the headlights look cause the salesman talked me into spending 3X what I was planning on spending. Man did it get more expensive too, or am I starting to get amnesia? Anyhow, with as much as these bullets cost it better aim the gun for me..... especially since I still have the iron sights on it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

You weren't paying attention12-13 years ago then. I started using Sabots and Pistol bullets in 1987. I have never used the pellets, but I think White came out with the first pellets right around that time and Hodgdon followed suit immediately after. Thompson Center came out with a special Flintlock rifle that used a 3 pellet magnum charge of pellets.

Its old tech now, LOL!


-DallanC


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

JC- I feel your pain... I walked in to a local archery shop about a month ago with thoughts of getting back into flinging sticks. Holy craaap stuff has changed since the days XX75's were all the rage.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

If you had a .54 cal you would have been even more surprised


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

bowgy said:


> If you had a .54 cal you would have been even more surprised


Just because there is very little out there for a .54. I'm glad that I have a couple of bullet molds for my .54, if not I doubt that I would be shooting it.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

If you had a good load back then, why don't you just use it instead of changing everything. 12-13 years ago in nothing. I am sure whatever you where using then is still around. I hope you were talking with someone that really knew about YOUR rifle when making recommendations and wasn't just spouting off about what he had just learned at the last training session. For example, pellets, was your rifle designed to use pellets( by the way, pellets have been around for a lot longer than 12-13 years)?


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## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

DallanC said:


> You weren't paying attention12-13 years ago then.
> 
> -DallanC


There's some truth in that. I was 17 last time I hunted with it and I undoubtedly bought the cheapest stuff I could find. But I was definitely taken back with how much things have changed from what I was using back then. They may have had sabbots and pellets I just wasn't aware they existed.


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## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

BPturkeys said:


> If you had a good load back then, why don't you just use it instead of changing everything. 12-13 years ago in nothing. I am sure whatever you where using then is still around. I hope you were talking with someone that really knew about YOUR rifle when making recommendations and wasn't just spouting off about what he had just learned at the last training session. For example, pellets, was your rifle designed to use pellets( by the way, pellets have been around for a lot longer than 12-13 years)?


The guy seemed very knowlegable and he was able to answer all of my questions. As I was explaining my gun to him he matched it with one behind the counter so we knew what to look for.

Honestly the loads I was using was probably the cheapest I could find, I was 17 the last time I hunted with it. I honestly couldn't even tell you the loads that I used. I'll go the range this weekend and hopefully I can get it dialed in before his hunt.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you just bought some pellets you might also want to pick up some loose Pyrodex. 

A lot of times you can get better groups with loose powder than you can with the pellets using the same amount.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

+1 on the loose pyrodex, I still use it in my 'ol .54.

Yes, muzzle has come a long way since I started with my Hawken .50 in '84. 
We used the round balls with cloth patches. Was not a exact science, but we killed deer. 
We were pretty good 80 yards or less............:mrgreen:


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

If your old smokepole uses the #11 caps for an ignition system DO NOT use pyrodex pellets. Use the loose powder instead. You will have some very frustrating delayed firings with the pellets. You need the hotter #209 shotgun primers for reliable ignition of the pellets.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

colorcountrygunner said:


> If your old smokepole uses the #11 caps for an ignition system DO NOT use pyrodex pellets. Use the loose powder instead. You will have some very frustrating delayed firings with the pellets. You need the hotter #209 shotgun primers for reliable ignition of the pellets.


I had more problems with loose powder than with pellets using #11 caps.

Things have definitely gotten more expensive over the years. Muzzleloading used to be the least expensive gun hobby. I would get TC Maxi Balls on clearance for $2-$3 a box and loose powder for $6. Those Maxi Balls are $20+ now.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Critter said:


> If you just bought some pellets you might also want to pick up some loose Pyrodex.
> 
> A lot of times you can get better groups with loose powder than you can with the pellets using the same amount.


Totally agree with the loose powder. I prefer 777 'cause it burns so clean, but you can dial in a load with any of the loose powders where in with pellets "what you see is what you get"


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## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

Critter said:


> If you just bought some pellets you might also want to pick up some loose Pyrodex.
> 
> A lot of times you can get better groups with loose powder than you can with the pellets using the same amount.


 I just bought the pellets. I'll see how they shoot and if I'm not getting very good groups, I'll pick up some loose Pyrodex. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> I prefer 777 'cause it burns so clean, but you can dial in a load with any of the loose powders where in with pellets "what you see is what you get"


I've never ever found 777 to burn clean. It might burn cleaner, but I found I still had to swab between shots for best accuracy, and even then it never beat the accuracy of pyrodex. I finally was able to give away the last of my 777 for free... and it took years to do so.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> I had more problems with loose powder than with pellets using #11 caps.
> 
> Things have definitely gotten more expensive over the years. Muzzleloading used to be the least expensive gun hobby. I would get TC Maxi Balls on clearance for $2-$3 a box and loose powder for $6. Those Maxi Balls are $20+ now.


When I was shooting my .54 all the time before I picked up a .50 I was making my own TC Maxi Balls out of scrap lead. I had the lead and couldn't figure why buy them when I could cast them. I have that .54 Maxi Ball mold and a round ball mold for my .54. I also picked up a .50 round ball mold to go with my .50.

One big problem now is that you can't find those .54 Maxi Ball molds and a lot of the ones for the .50's are oversized.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> I had more problems with loose powder than with pellets using #11 caps.
> 
> Things have definitely gotten more expensive over the years. Muzzleloading used to be the least expensive gun hobby. I would get TC Maxi Balls on clearance for $2-$3 a box and loose powder for $6. Those Maxi Balls are $20+ now.


That's strange. Not calling you a liar or anything, but that's completely the opposite of what I've seen.

Maxi Balls are $20+ now?! -O,- I never shot the maxi balls, but I used to shoot the similar maxi hunters and they were between 5 and 10 bucks. This would've been early 2000s. I never seen them as cheap as 2 or 3 bucks though. How long ago was that?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

colorcountrygunner said:


> That's strange. Not calling you a liar or anything, but that's completely the opposite of what I've seen.
> 
> Maxi Balls are $20+ now?! -O,- I never shot the maxi balls, but I used to shoot the similar maxi hunters and they were between 5 and 10 bucks. This would've been early 2000s. I never seen them as cheap as 2 or 3 bucks though. How long ago was that?


I believe the last time I picked them up for $3 was 5 years ago. Walmart would clearance them around Christmas. Heck they don't even carry muzzleloading supplies now, not the one in Tooele anyway.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

colorcountrygunner said:


> That's strange. Not calling you a liar or anything, but that's completely the opposite of what I've seen.
> 
> Maxi Balls are $20+ now?! -O,- I never shot the maxi balls, but I used to shoot the similar maxi hunters and they were between 5 and 10 bucks. This would've been early 2000s. I never seen them as cheap as 2 or 3 bucks though. How long ago was that?


Nope, $20 is pretty standard for them now. $1 a ball.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=maxi-ball&userItemsPerPage=48

-DallanC


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

Muzzle loading, archery, fly fishing and anything else that people figured out were enjoyable have been exploited for the almighty dollar. I use to pick up camo for about half of what your regular clothes cost. Now you can spend your kids college fund on it if you want.

Oh how I miss the good ole days!


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## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

Alright so I have a few questions. 

1- Are the pellets suppose to be able to fit into the breech plug? I know the loose powder would fill up the breech plug so the spark only had to travel 1/4 inch or so before it would hit powder. The pellets I bought don't fit into the breech plug so the spark has to travel the full length of the breech plug before it hits powder, probably an 1 1/4 inch. Is this going to be a problem? If it is, would it be a problem to fill of the breech plug with loose powder and then drop in the pellets?

2- I bought a sabot loading tool since the one I used to have was flat on the end. I actually bought 2 different ones and both of them don't fit in my barrel. it will go in about an inch and a half to where the barrel starts to rifle but it wont go past the rifling. I purchase the .50 cal tool and my muzzy is a .50 so I'm not sure what's wrong. It's got me worried that the sabots wont fit either. Anyone else have similar problems?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The pellets will just sit down to the breech plug and will go no further. The flash channel through the breech plug should channel the flame from the cap or primer to them with no problem, but the further it goes the cooler it gets and that may be the reason that they don't recommend using a #11 cap. 

As for the sabot loading tool end I have no idea. What type of a muzzle loader do you have? Can you pull the breech plug out and see if it will go in from the breech side? You could have some crud built up on the muzzle end that is stopping it.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

neverdrawn said:


> Muzzle loading, archery, fly fishing and anything else that people figured out were enjoyable have been exploited for the almighty dollar. I use to pick up camo for about half of what your regular clothes cost. Now you can spend your kids college fund on it if you want.
> 
> Oh how I miss the good ole days!


When it comes to archery I buy used stuff and old school stuff. I don't get to be part of the cool kids club, but I spend a fraction what they do on gear and kill critters just the same.


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