# 2022 - 2024 Waterfowl Recommendations are Out



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

RAC, Board meeting agendas, materials & minutes

There are a few proposed changes to the 2022 - 2024 waterfowl season structure:

1. The dark goose split seasons are proposed to have firm ending dates of February 15 in the Wasatch Front zone and January 31 in the northern zone.

2. Increasing the dark goose limit to 5 birds

3. Separating white-fronted geese as their own bag limit category, with a 6-bird limit

4. Requiring the swan orientation course to be retaken annually

5. Changing the name of the Wilson's snipe hunt to the Snipe hunt

I like what they're doing with the goose splits. Not sure how I feel about a 5 goose limit. I don't oppose the separation of white-fronted geese into their own bag category, but question the need for it with as many as we seem to have around.

Anybody know what other species of snipe we get around here?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't see the need for Specklebelly geese to have their own limit. I have seen a handful in 32 years. How many guys are shooting 6 Specks a day in Utah? None! Most have never seen, let alone shot a speck in Utah.

The dark goose season dates proposed are good, and the 5 bird limit is also good, especially for the Wasatch zone. 

I wish they would get rid of the Northern/Southern duck zones and just have the season run the same dates. Start and end at the same time. Start the Northern 2 weeks later and run until the end of January, like the Southern zone does now. 

I don't know anyone who targets Snipe, but hey more power to them.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

I one objective, eliminate the local goose population. Did I miss something, no goose population data, ducks and light geese only.
I have spoken to a couple of retired Northern Utah DWR officials, and they noted the decline in goose population.
They are not pleased with what is being proposed. They agreed with my disapproval of there management practices.
It is about the $$$$, and the pressure from the geese on the golf courses etc.
5 geese, come on this is not the central flyway....


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't agree with 5 geese a day either. We don't have that kind of population along the front. Sure there is days you could kill 5. But those days are few and far between. Is this coming from the private clubs and landowners from Box elder county? 5 just seems a little greedy. 

Personally I liked the limit of 3. When the getting was good you got in and got out. It was less pressure on birds.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

If we don't have a high number of urban geese, then why does the DWR band them and relocate them to other areas of the state? I really could care less if the daily limit is 3, 4 or 5. Maybe, a 5 goose limit in the Wasatch zone only?


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Fowlmouth said:


> If we don't have a high number of urban geese, then why does the DWR band them and relocate them to other areas of the state? I really could care less if the daily limit is 3, 4 or 5. Maybe, a 5 goose limit in the Wasatch zone only?


They relocate the adults to keep the USDA from killing them.


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

I like the later season end date along the Wasatch front for the geese, and am very much in favor of that. And I agree with Fowl that if it's about reducing the urban goose populations, than if anything, just increase the limit to 5 in that zone.

The separate bag limits for specks seems silly, especially setting it at 6 birds. I've been waterfowl hunting in Utah for 30 years, and I think I've seen 3 specks here during that time. You see and hear about them getting shot every once in a while, but I have a hard time believing somebody could kill 6 in one day. But I guess if they can, more power to them!

On the requirement to retake the swan orientation course annually, I wonder if that would do anything to reduce the number of applicants? This is a selfish answer, but I'd be willing to take the course every year if it means the draw odds increased. It's getting a bit absurd when it takes a guy 3+ years to get a tag. 

I don't have any opinion on the snipe hunt. I've never done it, and never talked to anybody that has. Seems kind of like a non-issue to rename a hunt that isn't very common anyways.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

> .
> I don't agree with 5 geese a day either. We don't have that kind of population along the front. Sure there is days you could kill 5. But those days are few and far between. Is this coming from the private clubs and landowners from Box elder county? 5 just seems a little greedy.
> 
> Personally I liked the limit of 3. When the getting was good you got in and got out. It was less pressure on birds.


Yes, and greed. The DWR are playing the hearts of the younger generation…
One of the retired DWR officials first comments to me was 5 is too much.
Hunting in middle of February for paired up birds.
It is sad, but true if allowed they would hunt in March.
A new business opportunity a nest box decoy.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

I love goose hunting but I don’t want 5/day.
To me a perfect goose hunt is setting decoys, hiding, killing a pair with two shots and getting the heck outta there fast while more geese are still working the area in safety.
You got to leave some meat on the bone for the next feast.
I do like the Feb 15 end date though, other than it cuts into ice fishing schedules….


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## MallardFlew (Feb 22, 2012)

Clarq said:


> RAC, Board meeting agendas, materials & minutes
> 
> There are a few proposed changes to the 2022 - 2024 waterfowl season structure:
> 
> ...



I completely agree with the split. I am all for trying to decrease the urban goose population. I do agree with making the five bird limit only for the areas that hold a lot of urban geese. 
I have only seen specks once in 20 years of hunting so I don't really care or see a reason for that differentiation. The swan identification course happening annually is a great thing for swan hunting and I wish they would require identification courses for all other species as well. 

Good luck hunting!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

5 bird goose limit is irresponsible.
90% of our birds are local hatched and raised right here in Utah. 
The DWR appears to enjoy the extremes. In ten years or so we can go to a draw goose tag like swan.


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## Cruiser (Oct 4, 2020)

I think moving the Wasatch zone back to the15th will do plenty to decrease the population, 5 is too many.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

> .
> I love goose hunting but I don’t want 5/day.
> To me a perfect goose hunt is setting decoys, hiding, killing a pair with two shots and getting the heck outta there fast while more geese are still working the area is safety.
> You got to leave some meat on the bone for the next feast.
> I do like the Feb 15 end date though, other than it cuts into ice fishing schedules….


That is being to sensible. And I agree not shooting the birds out.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

If the cities and DWR’s alternative plan is to poison the metro geese then allowing hunters to harvest them is a better alternative……… but not by much.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

> .
> 5 bird goose limit is irresponsible.
> 90% of our birds are local hatched and raised right here in Utah.
> The DWR appears to enjoy the extremes. In ten years or so we can go to a draw goose tag like swan.


At on time 8 tags and two maximum per day. Once you filled your 8 tags you were done for the season. 
This was in part because of liberal hunting practices.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Here are some facts you may want to consider regarding the goose harvest in Utah. I looked at the Utah data compiled by the USFWS for the years 2016 - 2020. It is a mix of HIP survey data and Parts Collection (wings). Since no snow/Ross data is shown for 2016, I assume that 2017 is when Utah started the spring white geese season. I don't know for sure when Utah upped the Canada goose limit to 4/day, but the data shown below would maybe suggest that also occurred in 2017. Anywho, please note the bottom row below. That line shows an AVERAGE of how many geese each hunter bags during an entire season - 2 to 3 geese total per SEASON. That hasn't changed much over the last 5 years. I'd be very interested in knowing how some on here calculate that increasing the daily limit to 5 birds a day will have any real impact on the total goose harvest for a full goose season. Please don't give me your emotionally charged opinion. Verifiable facts would be much better received and possibly sway some folks into changing their minds from for the increase (like me 😁) to against the increase. And name calling and/or character assassination if you're unable to present facts will fall on deaf ears.

2020​2019​2018​2017​2016​Canada24,472​15,403​15,165​24,178​23,421​Snow2,818​2,827​1,606​1,867​0​Ross593​975​268​934​0​Total27,883​19,205​17,039​26,979​23,421​Estimated goose harvest27,900​19,200​17,000​27,000​23,400​*Seasonal bag/hunter**3.3*​*2.2*​*2.2*​*2.9*​*2.5*​


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

dubob said:


> Here are some facts you may want to consider regarding the goose harvest in Utah. I looked at the Utah data compiled by the USFWS for the years 2016 - 2020. It is a mix of HIP survey data and Parts Collection (wings). Since no snow/Ross data is shown for 2016, I assume that 2017 is when Utah started the spring white geese season. I don't know for sure when Utah upped the Canada goose limit to 4/day, but the data shown below would maybe suggest that also occurred in 2017. Anywho, please note the bottom row below. That line shows an AVERAGE of how many geese each hunter bags during an entire season - 2 to 3 geese total per SEASON. That hasn't changed much over the last 5 years. I'd be very interested in knowing how some on here calculate that increasing the daily limit to 5 birds a day will have any real impact on the total goose harvest for a full goose season. Please don't give me your emotionally charged opinion. Verifiable facts would be much better received and possibly sway some folks into changing their minds from for the increase (like me 😁) to against the increase. And name calling and/or character assassination if you're unable to present facts will fall on deaf ears.
> 
> 2020​2019​2018​2017​2016​Canada24,472​15,403​15,165​24,178​23,421​Snow2,818​2,827​1,606​1,867​0​Ross593​975​268​934​0​Total27,883​19,205​17,039​26,979​23,421​Estimated goose harvest27,900​19,200​17,000​27,000​23,400​*Seasonal bag/hunter**3.3*​*2.2*​*2.2*​*2.9*​*2.5*​


They have been shooting utah snows in the spring since 2009. Not all their data is accurate. Some isnt even an even close educated guess. There isn’t many people or places you could constantly kill 5 geese a day in utah. It’s not really something to worry about I don’t think.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

Dubob why do you go to anther flyway to hunt a guided goose hunt? There should be plenty of geese for you to hunt in Utah to allow 5 geese a day.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

GoosesNightMare said:


> Dubob why do you go to anther flyway to hunt a guided goose hunt? There should be plenty of geese for you to hunt in Utah to allow 5 geese a day.


That’s a fair question. There are several reasons.

1. Texas (Central Flyway) already has a 5-bird/day limit.
2. Texas offers a free hunting license to non-resident disabled Veterans (I'm rated at 70% from the VA)
3. Texas also allows shooting 3 Sandhill Cranes/day.








4. I don't have to secure permission to hunt from any landowners.
5. I get a quality hunt to include food & lodging for $350/day
6. My birds are all cleaned and frozen for no additional cost.
7. I don't have to invest in any gear/equipment specific only to goose hunting.

Was that what you wanted to know, or was what you were asking rhetorical?


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> They have been shooting utah snows in the spring since 2009.


My bad; I stand corrected. Thank you.


MooseMeat said:


> Not all their data is accurate. Some isnt even an even close educated guess.


Serious question - do you know of any data source that is better? To the best of my knowledge and research, the USFWS collected data and individual State agency collected data are the main sources on which all Federal & State waterfowl regulations are set.


MooseMeat said:


> It’s not really something to worry about I don’t think.


We are 100% agreement on that point.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I think those numbers for Canada geese are a guesstimate at best. 9,000 bird increase from 2019 to 2020? If they are going off of hip registration figures they are questionable at best. There isn't enough options to answer fairly. Did you shoot over ten geese. It should give you options like did you kill 1-10, 10-20, 20-30. I think some guys lie on their answers. Some people don't report their bands out of paranoia. 

If they want real numbers lets get employees back out checking bag limits.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

> .
> That’s a fair question. There are several reasons.
> 
> 1. Texas (Central Flyway) already has a 5-bird/day limit.
> ...


Yes you answered my question as to why you hunt out of state, can’t do that in Utah, even if the limit is 5.
Central Flyway has many more birds..


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

Wow that'd be fun getting into the geese and taking a 5 bird limit. If I ever get lucky and finally get into some I'll try for 5 birds 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I don’t believe the data that’s gathered to be very accurate. Sure, figures don’t lie but I’m afraid that liars sometimes do the figuring…..or the holes in the data are filled in through guesstimation.
I truly believe that everyday normal waterfowlers don’t harvest many geese throughout the year however there are some who would decimate areas of birds pretty quickly.
The data that come out that 10% of the people harvest 90% of the birds is data I believe to be true. 
For some the limit possession and daily could be 500 and again, most shoot very few, where others would push that limit and beyond. 
Are there enough killers out there to hurt Utah’s goose population? 
I, from my original post, actually believe there is.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

I will make no attempt to challenge any of your belief systems. But I will say that in my 60-year waterfowling career I have personally met and had conversations with many state and federal waterfowl specialists. I found 100% of the folks I talked with to be fully committed to their professions and duties. They presented research methods and data sources that are not readily available via Internet due to cost barriers. Very few (including me) are willing to pay for access to research and survey data when there are sources available for free (like the data I posted above). State agencies are budgeted for such access and that becomes part of what they base their reports and projections on. I tend to base my opinions on the data that wildlife professionals present. I have never experienced interactions with those professionals that would lead me to believe they are presenting false or misleading analysis of said data. If the Utah DWR presents a recommendation that increasing the harvest limit on Canada Geese will not negatively impact the overall health of the goose population in Utah, that's good enough for me.


If your belief system is such that you can't trust Utah DWR professionals, then don't shoot a full limit of 5 if that becomes the new limit. Looking back over my logs for the past 10 years, I see that I have taken 6 Canada Geese in Utah incidental to hunting ducks. A limit change on geese will have zero impact on goose numbers from my perspective. YMMV.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

> . If your belief system is such that you can't trust Utah DWR professionals, then don't shoot a full limit of 5 if that becomes the new limit. Looking back over my logs for the past 10 years, I see that I have taken 6 Canada Geese in Utah incidental to hunting ducks. A limit change on geese will have zero impact on goose numbers from my perspective. YMMV.


This is why you go to the central flyway that allows 5 geese a day, which has many more than Utah’s urban population.
If Utah had the same amount of geese you would have shot more, unless a person is not good at hunting. But, you target ducks so the 6 geese is understandable for Utah.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

No, I’m not terribly trusting of our state agencies in regards to what is best for the sportsman or it’s wildlife. 
The biologists are in my opinion way down the rung in the decision making process, heavily influenced by those with personal and or money driven agendas.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I think the increased limits will simply push more geese to seek refuge in unhuntable areas.

If these proposals are backed by biologists, I support them unequivocally. If these proposals are not backed by biologists, I reject them unequivocally.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

It would not hurt my feelings if goose hunting hours ended every day at 11 am to actually let geese eat/rest in their preferred habitats, where we could pick a few off on a fairly consistent basis.
I would daresay harvest rates would actually increase due to keeping our targeted species in our hunt able areas.
We are loving our resources to death.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

I like it Shane. Many states & a couple of Canadian Provinces already do this and it seems to work well for them. I have no problem with that idea at all except I would make it Noon. 😁


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The limit is 4 daily now. I guess I don't see how 1 more goose will impact the entire state population. I can also believe that 10% of waterfowlers are the goose killers, not everyone knows how, where or has access to target geese. But as I previously stated, I could care less if it's a 3, 4 or 5 bird daily limit. Again, if it's an urban goose problem backed by data then only raise the limit in the Wasatch zone. If it has nothing to do with urban high numbers leave the limit at 4 statewide.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

That’s a nice photo Dubob. Being able to kill 5 honkers and 3 cranes per day makes NW Texas a good destination indeed!


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

dubob said:


> I like it Shane. Many states & a couple of Canadian Provinces already do this and it seems to work well for them. I have no problem with that idea at all except I would make it Noon. 😁


Noon works great for me also, let’s get it in writing already!


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

MWScott72 said:


> That’s a nice photo Dubob. Being able to kill 5 honkers and 3 cranes per day makes NW Texas a good destination indeed!


Heading back down there on Nov 28. Life is good. 👍


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

The Central RAC voted to advance the Division's waterfowl recommendations as presented.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Forget the extra Honker and give me back my second buck Pintail please.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

hamernhonkers said:


> Wow that'd be fun getting into the geese and taking a 5 bird limit. If I ever get lucky and finally get into some I'll try for 5 birds
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I live in the central fly zone and I don't usually shoot 5 birds/day. We usually don't get skunked. And I imagine I could probably shoot 5 a day if I wanted. But that's a lot to clean.....


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

hamernhonkers said:


> Wow that'd be fun getting into the geese and taking a 5 bird limit. If I ever get lucky and finally get into some I'll try for 5 birds
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


HH,
Quit trying to be a comedian and stick to your day job…..


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Sad


Clarq said:


> The Central RAC voted to advance the Division's waterfowl recommendations as presented.


Sad day.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

There was quite the discussion on the Trumpeter issue and having to close the season early the last 2 years due to excessive Trumpeter harvest. They kicked around closing PUblic Shooting Ground once 10 Trumpeters were killed since apparently PSG is a hotbed for Trumpeter activity. The upshot was there is concern that too many tag holders are having to eat their tag because of the Trumpeters being killed. They also kicked around a waiting period if u shot a Trumpeter but that was also shot down. Both items were shot down though and they passed the DWRs recommendations as presented.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

> .There was quite the discussion on the Trumpeter issue and having to close the season early the last 2 years due to excessive Trumpeter harvest. They kicked around closing PUblic Shooting Ground once 10 Trumpeters were killed since apparently PSG is a hotbed for Trumpeter activity. The upshot was there is concern that too many tag holders are having to eat their tag because of the Trumpeters being killed. They also kicked around a waiting period if u shot a Trumpeter but that was also shot down. Both items were shot down though and they passed the DWRs recommendations as presented.


From a reliable source the last two days he was there 13 and 17 vehicles in one parking lot, with 90 % being boat hunters. The swan hunters have completely blown the area out, no geese, not very many ducks.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

GoosesNightMare said:


> From a reliable source the last two days he was there 13 and 17 vehicles in one parking lot, with 90 % being boat hunters. The swan hunters have completely blown the area out, no geese, not very many ducks.


And? PSG has never been an incredible spot for geese or ducks. It’s a swan spot. There’s tons of other options if you want to shoot ducks and geese. 30 vehicles or boats isn’t much. Farmington sees that many every day of the season and there’s still some great hunting to be had from day 1 to the last day.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> And? PSG has never been an incredible spot for geese or ducks. It’s a swan spot. There’s tons of other options if you want to shoot ducks and geese. 30 vehicles or boats isn’t much. Farmington sees that many every day of the season and there’s still some great hunting to be had from day 1 to the last day.


How much larger of a area is Farmington Bay?
It must be the place I am missing out on geese. Must be the reason for the increase to 5 geese. Thanks for the heads up 😊😊


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

GoosesNightMare said:


> How much larger of a area is Farmington Bay?
> It must be the place I am missing out on geese. Must be the reason for the increase to 5 geese. Thanks for the heads up 😊😊


You sound like a real goose nightmare to me 🤣 I’m sure you shoot limits every time you go!


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> You sound like a real goose nightmare to me 🤣 I’m sure you shoot limits every time you go!


Not in Utah, but they will allow 5 next season. Should be more geese than ever to harvest in our WMA, may not need to go out of state to hunt…
What about you, Farmington seems like the hot spot for geese?
End to my goose band drought, got #72 last week😁😁😁


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

GoosesNightMare said:


> Not in Utah, but they will allow 5 next season. Should be more geese than ever to harvest in our WMA, may not need to go out of state to hunt…
> What about you, Farmington seems like the hot spot for geese?
> End to my goose band drought, got #72 last week😁😁😁


No I prefer to hunt sewer ponds behind locked gates. Very private farm ponds are good too.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Decimating sewer pond and metro farm pond birds maybe part of the goal.
My concern is there will be pockets of geese far from downtown golf courses that will be wiped completely out by the ongoing and increasing limits.
THERE IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF LOCAL GEESE IN UTAH TO JUSTIFY A 5 BIRD LIMIT.
There’s got to be a better way to make golf course geese become extinct rather than the entire population.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

1BandMan said:


> Decimating sewer pond and metro farm pond birds maybe part of the goal.
> My concern is there will be pockets of geese far from downtown golf courses that will be wiped completely out by the ongoing and increasing limits.
> THERE IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF LOCAL GEESE IN UTAH TO JUSTIFY A 5 BIRD LIMIT.
> There’s got to be a better way to make golf course geese become extinct rather than the entire population.


Even UtahBigBull can testify to this getting bands from birds not part from the Urban Wasatch area during the extended season.
I had a discussion with a owner of a club in northern Utah that is not part of the Wasatch front area. He said "they want to get rid of the geese”
I am afraid it is a done deal with the 5 geese and extended season dates. Sad to see what is happening…


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> No I prefer to hunt sewer ponds behind locked gates. Very private farm ponds are good too.


Good for you to have access to these private areas, I am not that fortunate.


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