# Scofield Chrinomids?



## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

I know the chrinomid subject has been beat to death. This question goes out to the still water experts (RnF, Thresher, El Matador, ect.). Still water is my passion during late spring and late fall and I have always done well with typical leeches, buggers, and nymphs fished on sinking line, even the occasional dry on some floating line, but have never fished much with chrinomids and am looking to add it to my arsenal. When is a good time to try them? Is it good immediately after ice off or does the water have to warm up a little? What is a good color and size thsi time of year for Scofield? I was hoping to get up there the end of this week and try and fish some of the open water (assuming there is any). Let me know if chrinomids are an option.

Thanks.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

I'am by no means a still water expert. I've never fished them right at ice-off. I've had good success fishing them close to the surface using floating line. I usually use size 16 and 18s in black, red, disco, and orange. I just cast out and drift with the wind as long as it's not a strong wind.


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## catch&release (Nov 8, 2007)

You can fish Midges any time after ice off. You can have great sucess even when you dont see any midges hatching or not. Fish have good memories about midges because thru the entire year it probably makes up about 80% of there diet and they have a good memory of what they look like. I personaly like to fish a blood midge after ice off and the midges havent started hatching yet. The blood midge is what the midge starts from the beginning of the cycle before it turnes into the pupa. It is blood red color. Midges will hammer fish any time to the season from ice off to the point of the lake freezing over. When you see the midges flying around and hatching keep looking at the water to see if you can see any rising or just look on the surface the the shucks (the empy body they crawl out of after comming to the surface) to see what size to fish. You probably cant go wrong fishing a size 14. Thats a good middle size to fish.


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

There is some good info in this topic 
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5049

Basically just have a range in colors and sizes and you should be good to go. I have never fished there, so I don't know what colors or sizes work best. Just have a variety on ya.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

I got called an expert! *OOO* 

Woo!

After going back and reviewing the post on what a chironomid is....

IMO much depends on the habitat. Ice off can concentrate fish at the fringes, and in my experience they are prone to taking what comes naturally in that zone.

For example, lakes with lots of sterile rainbows and not much/any fingerling stocking don't seem to go for minnow type patterns. One lake I can think of is Minersville, stomach contents of the big 'bows down there at ice off this year were chironomids and zoo plankton. Chironomids and smaller flies on a drift seemed more productive than any other technique.

I fished a lake out in Nevada this Spring where leeches and minnows are very scarce, and again caught fish almost entirely on the chironomids that the fish were used to seeing.

One thing that I was suprised to learn a few seasons ago came from a study on stillwater trout diets over an extended period (mainly in the Pacific Northwest but on a wide variety of waters). Chironomids made up 40% to 50% of a trout's diet depending on the season. Like others have mentioned, since they are always present and because they are a huge percentage of the natural diet you can't overlook them.

That said, I don't consider them my go-to patterns on many waters. Mainly this is because I prefer to be very active with my retrieves and love hard hitting fish. Chironomid fishing usually consists of either no retrieve or molasses slow hand twists, and in the Spring takes are generally very subtle. If fish will take something more aggressively retrieved, I always go that route simply finding it more fun. If not, I hit the 'mids which can be incredibly deadly. 

Scofield has lots of minnows, leeches, and crayfish. I've had phenomenal ice off days up there using very aggressive big fly tactics. The introduction of tiger trout seems to have amped this up even more because of the nature of the fish. On that lake, I definitely suggest going with leech/bugger patterns and trying a variety of retrieves as a first tactic. Don't omit the 3-foot rip retrieve, it frequently works up there.

Just realize 1) they are always present (larval/pupal stages are there even if there isn't a visible hatch) and 2) they make up a large percentage of the total diet. Chironomids are also some of the first hatches of the season making ice off a good time to try them when the fish are concentrated. I try them routinely as part of my search cycle. If I cycle through some bigger flies and faster retrieves without picking up many fish, I go to them.

My normal rig is a dropper set up with 2 flies spaced a couple feet apart. Usually I'll start with a pupa on top, dropping a larva closer to the bottom.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm with you Thresher, I like active retrieves with big flies. I seldom fish stillwater other than Scofield and Strawberry with an exception of a few of the smaller local lakes. Even then I use similiar tactics, just with smaller bugs and nymphs, particularly the bug I tied for the fly swap. I wanted to know more about chrinos for those rare times I am unable to get a lot of response to my big flies. 

I second the notion about the tigers in Scofield. The dynamics of the resevoir have changed significantly over the past two years. What continues to amaze me is I can fish with one fly and catch nothing but bows and yet if I change my retrieve up a little, I catch nothing but tigers or cutts. I have even had times where I will fish with basically the same fly that may have a different colored tail or slightly different colored body and have the same effect. With that in mind with regards to chrinomids, do you notice whether the different types of fish prefer one color over another or a different retrieve from another? Just wondering what your observation has been.


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

I think chironomid fishing really brings out the pickiness in fish. My strategy is to pump the first few fish I catch and see exactly what size and color they are eating. I usually try to match or go one size larger. Chironomids in larval and pupal stages move very slowly, so remember that when you fish them. Another key is to find the right depth. Its probably because these bugs are so small that fish won't go out of their way to eat them. You have to put the fly in front of the fish. Use loop knots and/or small tippet. A big tippet tied tightly to a size 16 fly will make it move unnaturally. I typically use 7 lb tippet for my main fly (tied with a loop knot) and 5 lb for my dropper, again with a loop knot. One last tactic that sometimes works for searching or when not much is biting: Tie on a nymph of some kind (hare's ear, damsel, scud) and drop a bloodworm or pupa off that. Do a slow, twitchy retrieve in the shallows or drift it under an indicator. Sometimes you will pick up fish on each fly so its more productive than just fishing one kind of pattern.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

flyfishn247 said:


> With that in mind with regards to chrinomids, do you notice whether the different types of fish prefer one color over another or a different retrieve from another? Just wondering what your observation has been.


I'm not as intelligent as the average fish so I can't say exactly why, but the different species do seem to select slightly different food sources at times.

I have seen certain species key on chironomids while others are not. A recent instance of this happened at Mill Meadow. Matador and I were fishing leech and minnow patterns and hooking rainbows. It wasn't until late in the day when we realized the big browns that we were after were stacked in the extreme shallows exclusively feeding on black chironomid pupae. The tigers and 'bows didn't seem to be concentrating on them, but the browns were ultra selective about it.

I've seen the behavior you mention at Scofield and it led to some diversification of my bugger selection. As an impressionistic fly, buggers are probably taken for things like leeches, minnows, crayfish, and what have you. If I think the fish are taking them for leeches, I use a long marabou tail that is sparse enough to provide lots of wavy action. If I think minnows are the target, I often fish a killer with pheasant tail rump as the tail. This moves much less and splays out to imply the tail of a minnow. I get the tigers on the flashier minnow-slanted patterns.

With the 'mids, I haven't seen the different color/different species thing. Like Matador says, hatches usually occur in such a way that the larvae and pupae will be found at specific depths in the water column. The fish usually go there and sip them. Since they are small on calories, they don't want to go out of their way much. Size/color/depth need to be pretty accurate. On certain occasions, fish will hammer them and it can be sweet fun. Most of the time it's slow retrieves and very light strikes.


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## Frito (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah, I too like to go a size larger on the Chironomids. I usually go with 12's and sometimes 14's. Scofield has a great chironomid selection when it comes to colors and sizes. I usually find black with red, orange or burgundy are pretty safe but it's good to match colors if you can find out what they're chomping on. Here are some of the latest ones I've been working on: http://picasaweb.google.com/frito1/Chironomids

Another thing I've found interesting about chironomids which kinda confirms a hunch I've had for a while -- they don't swim as slowly as people think. Check this out:






Also note how they make a "U" shape when trying to break the surface. Inspiration for a new style of chironomid emerger patterns. Once I get some free time, I'll be working on some of these for Scofield and other spots around this year.


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

Cool video, thanks for sharing. Nice work with those flies, good lookin'.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Whoops let me try this again


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

I just spotted this post. I LOVE CHIRONOMIDS. I fish them any chance I get, but mostly from my pontoon and with sonar so I know how deep it is. Fish feed on Chironomids 3/4 of the year so about the only time I don't try them is fall, but right now they are awesome.
If I fish them from shore I will start with a 9' leader and a fly right on the bottom. Generally Tungsten bead, but at times I will still add weight (I like the Weight Putty) about 8" to 10" up from this fly. Then I attach a tag and another (different color/size) chironomid 2 to 3 feet up from the bottom. Set the indicator at the top of the leader. Lately, I have noticed the fish must be stacked cause I am catching two at a time.
Stillwater I use straight 6 lb Fluoro in 20' to 30' length and set the indicator according to depth. I have the break away indicators for this. It works every time and is killer.
Fished Scofield last year around this time however it was warmer. Fished off the shore throwing a Black/White and a Green/copper chironomid and was nailing one almost every cast.
One particular lake up North LOVES those little bead head thread flies.


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## F/V Gulf Ventur (Oct 8, 2007)

madonafly said:


> I have the break away indicators for this.
> 
> Fished off the shore throwing a Black/White and a Green/copper chironomid and was nailing one almost every cast.
> 
> One particular lake up North LOVES those little bead head thread flies.


Where did you get those break away bobbers?

Size on those chrondo's?

what lake ; )....j/k


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

The break aways I get at "The Fly Desk" Dennis Brakke, but he is only in on Saturdays. Hard to get a hold of at times. If you can't PM me and I will see what I can do.
Chironomids I do On straight nymph hooks up to a 14 and scud hooks usually in the 12 range. Look in the water and lift a rock, that will tell you what size. I tie a good assortment of sizes, but I do stick to same colors. Tungsten Bead head (choice of color, but with white no need for gills) bodies out of floss and ribbed with colored wire.
Examples: Black bead with black floss and Red, White and BLUE wire. Copper or gold Tungsten bead and Olive floss with gold or copper rib.
For some reason the black and blue (the Bruise) has been killing them this year.
I also have a favorite I learned from some Logan Boys called the Irish Spring. Sorry I only have a picture of a double tied on a swimming hook. It is Kelly green Flashabou for the body, Copper Bead, and wire. I like a red tag at the butt and I tie an abdomen with Pea****, over wing of thin skin and Para-Post of the gills tied Wulff style.


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## F/V Gulf Ventur (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks man... better than I was expecting!


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## Frito (Feb 29, 2008)

Yo F/V....I'll bring you some at the show. Herb scored about 1000 of them from a wholesaler and they're way cheap. Even cheaper than the ones Wal Mart carries.

nice bug there madonafly!


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

So Herb hangs out here too? Right On! He is my HERO you know :mrgreen:


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## cheech (Sep 25, 2007)

Frito said:


> Yo F/V....I'll bring you some at the show. Herb scored about 1000 of them from a wholesaler and they're way cheap. Even cheaper than the ones Wal Mart carries.
> 
> nice bug there madonafly!


He he he... It's good to be a beneficiary of people who have connections. I now have about 1500 slip indicators.

I love chironomid fishing, but I kind of use it as a last resort. When they are on, they are on, but I would much rather fish something that involves a bit more action. Not buggers either. They are very very boring Most of the crap that I am throwing has a certain bit of mylar, dubbing, flash, rubber legs, German Shepherd hair etc.

I guess the answer is.... Be well rounded on lakes. One day they will be eating red chironomid larvae, and the next day they are eating maroon leeches. I have fished with many a lake angler, and the best I have fished with is Improv from this site. He can narrow down what pattern and presentation to fish within minutes. I got a call from him once telling me that I needed to fish buggers with _ light _ brown hackle etc. Sure enough, black hackle didn't work, dark brown didn't work. Light brown hackle on a black bug worked. I mean, WHO ties a black bugger with light brown hackle. He is friggin stillwater ninja and I have learned a lot from fishing and tying with him.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Still water ninja I like it!


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## Improv (Sep 8, 2007)

Thanks for the accolades Cheech – I know I’m not deserving of them, but they were very nice nonetheless – so thank you!

No secret here on how much I too love Chironomids. Indicator fishing is one of the most effective ways to target selective trout in big flat waters. I have caught more trout over the slot in Strawberry fishing with them then I have fishing with buggers/leeches. You have to keep in mind when fishing for trout that not all of the “big” fish have or will convert over to eating fry. There is a huge population of very big fish that will choose to dine on insects for the rest of their lives – and if you don’t “match the hatch” you’ll miss out on that other population of fish. 

Indicator fishing allows for a more natural presentation of a midge. Generally insects are traveling from the bottom of the lake to the top. Indicator fishing presented correctly creates this “vertical jigging" motion of a bug travling from bottom to top. 

Some helpful hints when indicator fishing:

·	Always go longer then you think you need to when it comes to leader length. Like I said, midges’ start out at the bottom, so this is place where trout are looking for them. 
·	Always fish with two flies. My reason for this is for three reasons. A. If you use two different flies, you may discover that these selective fish are only interested in one of them - so take off the fly they don't want and replace it with another one that they do. B. You may find that one population of fish prefers one fly while the other population prefers another. By having two different flies you’ll increase the chance of finding at least one population that will want at least one of those flies. C. By fishing with two flies, it allows you to fish two different depths at the same time. For example, your first fly may be too high in the water column whereas the second fly (tied 10-12 inches below the first fly) may be just right. Or the bottom fly may be too low (into the mud) whereas the top fly is hanging out just where the trout wants it.
·	Use large indicators. When the wind picks up on a lake (and it will) smaller indicators will often look like they are getting hits, when in fact it may be nothing more then the waves. Also, larger indicators allow you to use weighted flies or buggers with out drown the drowning the indicator. I too like “slip” or “break away” indicators – they allow you capability of using very long leader and not having to worry how you are going to real in the fish when you indicators’ at the top of the rod and you still have 20 feet of line to real in.
·	Lastly, use sinkers or weights to get your flies down fast. The faster you can get those flies down to where the fish are, the quicker you are going to catch the fish. Also, when fishing on windy without weights generally allows your flies to drift away from the sport you want to be in. In some cases this is okay, but for the most part – once you have found a spot on the lake that is working using Chrinomids – you’ll want to say in that area and keep fishing until it stops. Sometimes this area is only 3 feet by 3 feet.

Have fun and enjoy the best time of the years for indicator fishing!


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks B. Very informative. Unlocking the secrets of lake bobber fishing is one of my goals this year. I have tied up a clutch of chironomids and am ready to get to it! Still not sure how the break-away indicators work but I'm sure once I get my hands on some it will make more sense.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Good post there Improv, thanks for the info.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

ScottyP said:


> Thanks B. Very informative. Unlocking the secrets of lake bobber fishing is one of my goals this year. I have tied up a clutch of chironomids and am ready to get to it! Still not sure how the break-away indicators work but I'm sure once I get my hands on some it will make more sense.


How they work. You have the styro egg and a plastic peg. In the picture it is upside down.
You put the peg on first with the narrow end toward the end of the leader or tippet. Then slide the Styro egg on. Slide both to the desires depth. Make a loop between peg and egg, then push peg in.









When the fish hit, the leader straightens out and the indicator slides (peg will usually stay in egg)


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## catch&release (Nov 8, 2007)

Dont forget that you can have the best of both worlds while indicator fishing. Bottom fly can be your chironomid and the upper fly, two feet higher or so can also be your minnow or perch fry pattern. There is nothing better than being able to fish both a minnow pattern and a midge at the same time. Since twitching your midge will alway trigger strikes it also gives the minnow pattern life like and it looks like a wounded minnow or just swimming. "ALWAYS HAVE THE MINNOW PATTERN TIED EYE TO EYE" meaning the tippet from the indicator straight down to the eye and then another piece of tippet tied into the eye again and then your split shot between the minnow and the midge at the end of your leader. What this does it keeps the minnow swimming level from the tension of the indicator and the tension below the minnnow with the split shot and the minnow. You can also use a leach pattern in the same manner because it looks more realistic with the 1st fly swimming level in the water column. 

Improv, shot me an email and i will tell you about the two 2 1/2 day trips i took to Otter Creek last week and the two weeks before that.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

How much leader do you typically have between the streamer/leech to the midge?


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## catch&release (Nov 8, 2007)

I usually have at least two feet, sometimes alittle more and a split shot centered inbetween the minnow pattern and the midge. This means from the bottom fly 12" to 15" up the tippet, then a surgeons knot then 12" to 15" of leader hooked into the eye of the minnow and then leader up to the indicator. Its very important to place a surgeons knot centered between the two for the split shot so when the split shot starts moving around it will stop where the knot is and keep it from moving down to the bottom fly. The length inbetween the two can be larger but depends on how deep the fish are taking the minnows or bait fish also. In this case of a larger leader and the minnow being farther up the leader i will always try to keep the split shot just still 12" to 15" above the midge because you need more weight (sensativety) closer to the midge because the fish will usually just sip them in and not show you alot of movement however on the minnow pattern they usually attack that pattern because they think it will get away. I only use tungston bead heads for all of my midges so i can get away with the split shot being alittle further away from the fly. If you use a plastic bead head or something very light you must make sure you get the split shot close enough to the bottom fly so that when it gets taken it will be sensative up the line and onto the indicator. No closer than 10" i would say!


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

All this information is overwhelming to a novice, however I did hook up with a Kokanee just trying out this method. I was fishing the South Fork and decided to head up to Causey. I tied on a small colorful midge (chrinomied I believe). Put on a couple of split shot, put on my regular boober (never heard of a break away bobber) I used in the river and threw it out. I slowely retrived and bamo!! I hooked into a kok from the shore, it fought great.

I need to sharpen my still water skills for sure however. I do have a pontoon but rarley get out on it. I just really enjoy river and stream fishing, I just don't know enough about still water to really get into. This thread has sure helped me out.

Thanks for the great info everyone! If anyone is ever headed up north way and needs to split gas money, please PM me. I would love to get out, I would even buy lunch


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

I lucked into a few fish that way at otter creek so the technique works. I am going to vernon res for the weekend so I will have to try it out there.


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## Trouty (May 20, 2008)

Certainly no expert but I too have done well with chirono's during all softwater periods of the year. I actually will often tie one on behind a bugger when I am just stripping or trolling along to a different location in a lake. Even using that "improper" method of fishing a chirono I probabaly catch a quarter of my fish on the midge rather than the bugger. Not as effective as fishing it correctly but still.... Don't know why it works but, to be honest, I don't really care when I'm releasing a fish I otherwise wouldn't have caught.


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