# helping a friend?



## Mntman (Nov 16, 2007)

For those of you who guide big game, professionally and for friends.

For the last 3 years, I have went hunting with a friend. I end up filling my tag prior to him and then try to assist him in getting his first bull. 

I take him to where the elk are, get him on a bull and then he stops listening to me. 
example 1. this year we were sneaking along the side of a ridge and come face to face with 12 elk at 50 yards. I found the one bull in the group, a small 4x4 raghorn. Pointed it out to him, I could see he was getting excited, so I told him to lean on the tree which was 1 foot from him, he says no. I keep telling him to calm down and use the tree to steady himself, nope, he won't do it. He shoots and misses, off they go never to be seen again.  
example 2. I get an answer from a bull bugling. they were so close (150 yards) we didn't have time to set up with him out front so i hid right next to him. I told him to get ready, I'm ready he say's. Get your gun up and pointed at that opening(40 yards), cause that is where they will come through i say. He just stands there with his gun at his hips(i am kneeling on the ground concealing my self behind the tree)? Well the first one goes through and no shot. Second and no shot. The second angles towards us but stops behind some brush. You can see the outline of the entire bull, with a beach ball size opening through the brush to the lung area behind the shoulder (broadside, perfect). Won't shoot waits till the bull steps to where there is no shot then shoots. Of course a miss.  
(He hunts with a rifle), 
Yes he missed them all, I am positive.

I could give more but you get the picture.

What do you guys do with people when you get one like this? Other people I have taken, take my recomendations and they have been successful. 
I am at a loss?


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

a. If he's just your buddy, then you hang with him through successes and failures, and I guess be glad you don't have to help pack out the elk.
b. Find a new buddy to hunt with.


----------



## Mntman (Nov 16, 2007)

That's just it, I want him to get his bull and would rather pack out his elk 3 miles by myself than to see him go home with his tag unpunched. 

I know some people get buck fever when they see a rack but with some one standing next to them who is calm and trying to help????
I'm gonna continue to try and help him get a bull. Just thought you might know of a way to help him listen during crunch time?


----------



## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Maybe you're being a little rough on your friend Mtnman.. :? 

I used to hunt with some guy's that thought they were the orignal Curt Gowdy..!!

Always giving orders !! Jeez...we were all hunting together !! Lay still !! Don't move !! When we hear them..I'll tell you how many and when to shoot !! Stay here !! I'll be right back...

I didn't care for this type of hunt, I had my own way of hunting so I would just seperate from these guy's and it would make them mad...Of course we don't hunt together anymore..

Maybe...'you' need to slack off a little... 

Just my opinion.....


----------



## holman927 (Sep 28, 2007)

Your friend sounds a bit stubborn.
What is your relationship with him like? Are you guys Buddy's, about the same age? Are you a role model for him? 
When I was younger I had a scout leader that would take me Elk hunting. He was a huge role model for me. We would take a small television to watch hunting videos. It gave me a bit of a heads up of what to do in different situations. 
I just bring it up because I know it was probably a little frustrating for him at times to be taking a person with my experience. As it is frustrating for you.


----------



## Mntman (Nov 16, 2007)

.45 said:


> Maybe you're being a little rough on your friend Mtnman.. :?
> 
> I used to hunt with some guy's that thought they were the orignal Curt Gowdy..!!
> 
> ...


I agree with you and hate that too cause, I thought about that and looked at myself and I really don't think I am like that. He asks me all the time on how to get better and what to do differently for elk hunting. I help him as much as possible. We go over situations that a person may encounter, where to go why, when. I even give up where I want to go so he has the option to hunt there but he won't do it unless I take him out there :?:


----------



## Mntman (Nov 16, 2007)

holman927 said:


> What is your relationship with him like? Are you guys Buddy's, about the same age? Are you a role model for him?
> .


He is 12 years older than me. We worked in the same place for 3 years and are good friends now.


----------



## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

It might just be me, but it sounds like one thing the guy needs is some target practice under field conditions. Missing a target the size of an elk's vitals at reasonable distances is a sign not only of nerves but of poor technique, lack of practice, etc. Take your buddy rabbit hunting with his elk rifle or something along those lines where some quick decisions and offhand shooting are required.

That said, some people just go squirrely around big game and get very excited. I've personally seen a guy that could shoot a 1" group at a 100 yard rifle range miss 5 times by more than 10 feet on a deer standing at 80 yards. Sometimes the only thing that "cures" this is experience. One thing that can be done however is to place a condition on your guide services. Let it be known beforehand that if your buddy wants you to guide for him, he must shoot over cross sticks or a dead rest. Many guides do this, because the small amount of time it takes to set cross sticks not only delivers a stable shot platform but dispells precious seconds of the initial excitement.


----------



## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

This may just be me but it sounds like he has the "older guy" block or something thinking he can handle what to do in these situations and may be resenting the advice in crunch time... I don't know that it'll ever change. If you say too much about it, he'll probably get mad and won't hunt with you anymore or something else, in spite of the fact that you're trying to help him punch out on an elk.


----------



## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

Try this-

Next summer, buy a case of clay pigeons. Walk the road or trail that you usually hunt and place the clays on rocks, in bushes, duct tape them to limbs, whatever, at various reasonable ranges.
Then, you and your buddy walk out with your hunting rifles and a couple of boxes of shells and try to bust every clay pigeon you've placed.
When he runs out of shells without busting any clays, he'll start taking a knee or a rest ON HIS OWN, because- well, he can't hit anything. Dispensing advice, good or bad, doesn't gurantee that someone is goint to take it. Take him out and let him prove to himself that the broad-sides of barns become much smaller when you shoot offhand!
After this, start having some fun with it. If you've got a .223 or something of that nature that's accurate and cheap to shoot, start placing the clays way out there: 200, 300, 350+ yards and start busting clays in earnest, from field positions or with a shooting stick. I use a 6' lodgepole staff when I hunt- it never fails me in crunch time.
You'll never have to say "I told you so...". He'll get a clue on his own, and learn how to effectively shoot in the field as well. Plus, you have a good time in the woods and get an opportunity to do some early season scouting in the process. Win-win situation!


----------



## foxhunter (Oct 8, 2007)

It sounds to me like he is frusterated, and wants to get one without someone telling him how to do it. I dont know the situation, but maybee he doesnt like someone younger telling him how to do it. I would just be patient with him and maybee take him rabbit hunting for practice :? 
Just my 2 cents


----------



## schaueelab (Dec 30, 2007)

If it means fillin my tag Ill do what ever you say


----------

