# Deer/elk baiting?



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm surprised this article wasn't posted sooner:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2019/10/07/put-out-some-apples-lure/

I would think that some of you have some strong opinions one way or another...Thoughts?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Weird for the guy to randomly correlate CWD to baiting. 

Baiting is illegal in Colorado, per the article, but they suffer from disease much worse than we do. Isn't CO elk the ones who brought it here? (I really don't know, just know we have an increase in occurrence along that border).


Baiting Mule Deer and elk isn't as simple as it sounds in there. You have to time it right, animals still migrate and a small pile of apple or even a lick won't get them to congregate unnaturally. They can't smell it from 10 miles away and come running. You are putting it in frequented areas to capture the animals. Maybe I am wrong, but I know there isn't a study proving what he said. I have put licks out with great success, and others that get almost nothing on the cams.


I spend a lot of time in the hills, as do a lot of us. I come across mineral licks occasionally, rarely do I see apples (in fact I have tried it and have watched deer go right past them).. But I wouldn't say any of it is "becoming an increasingly common sight" to an extreme.


I am ok with science proving something. Everything I wrote is an opinion and personal experience. Everything in that article was also a strongly biased opinion, but little fact.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Pretty interesting article. I’m not a fan of baiting and think it should be outlawed in Utah.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

CPAjeff said:


> Pretty interesting article. I'm not a fan of baiting and think it should be outlawed in Utah.


Could you elaborate? W2U liked this short post, I would love either of your thoughts on why.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Baiting is pretty ineffective for deer and elk. I’ve tried lots of different things and the only thing they really hit consistently, and by that I mean maybe once a week, usually at night, is salt. Water is more effective than bait. We gonna push to ban that too?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Easy...I don't think it is sporting. I have seen a huge increase in deer and elk baiting. Just this year on the Boulder we saw people bringing in feed, apples, and other attractants to bait elk. It works.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Is baiting any less fair than inline muzzleloaders with high power scopes? Or 1500 yard rifles? What about all the new camo out these days? Range finders? Range finding sites for bows? Is baiting any less ethical than that? I don’t think so. We are focusing on the wrong issues I think


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> Baiting Mule Deer and elk isn't as simple as it sounds in there.


It isn't? From what I've witnessed, it is as simple as setting up the trail camera, then dumping that bag of feed from IFA (or, just dog food, whatever your preference or budget allows). Re-apply every couple days and condition the deer to it. That's pretty simple. And it's effective. Then start dropping apples, apricots (!), plums, peaches....whatever you have, and the sweeter the better! Next thing you know, you'll be plucking an apricot from your 190" trophy buck's mouth before snapping a picture!



RandomElk16 said:


> I spend a lot of time in the hills, as do a lot of us. I come across mineral licks occasionally, rarely do I see apples (in fact I have tried it and have watched deer go right past them).. But I wouldn't say any of it is "becoming an increasingly common sight" to an extreme.


I think this is very common practice on private ground, as mentioned in the article. I know personally private land owners that "feed" the deer all summer long, then each family member get's their turn taking them during the archery hunt.

My eyes have been opened the last few years to this same practice on public land. In fact, my comments this year after seeing the numerous bait stations on public land during the archery elk hunt, were that "we have to start baiting" like everyone else. Trail cameras play right into this. Look at any number trail camera pictures posted on any number of guides, or hunters instagram pages, and you'll notice in all of them that the animals are perfectly centered in the pictures -- because they are attracted to whatever is on the ground -- water softner salt (it's cheap!)? go look at Ryan Carter's instagram page (no dig to Ryan -- he's not doing anything that anyone else isn't doing legally). Trail cameras + bait are a perfect combination for hunters.



RandomElk16 said:


> I am ok with science proving something. Everything I wrote is an opinion and personal experience. Everything in that article was also a strongly biased opinion, but little fact.


Not everything has to be done from a scientific perspective. If, as hunters, we believe a change needs to be made from an ethical standpoint, then make the change. My personal opinion is that trail cameras and bait station should be regulated. I'd like to see Utah regulated more similarly to our neighboring states in regards to both cameras and bait.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Every leading biologist I have talked with, who studies mule deer, says congregating deer by feeding risks transmitting disease among the population. A pile of 1000 apples has deer on top of each other eating from the same pile/same trough. Ever watch a cow, sheep, or deer eat apples? They drip juice and saliva on everything they are eating, contaminating the pile.

I have heard of guys baiting Bighorns. Are the proponents of baiting all for that too? Wouldn't it be great to have pneumonia transfer among our sheep so a dude can more easily shoot a ram or photograph it? And wouldn't it be great to have Blue Tongue more easily transferred among our mule deer because someone wants an easier buck? 

The picture is bigger than just playing the jealousy card. Geist said it best- Death by 1000 cuts.

As an aside- I grew up on an orchard and once baited a different property with apples. It worked, too well. Never did it again. Those who say it doesn't work are off base- or why would so many people and outfitters do it..... 

..
.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I don’t agree with baiting and have never done it personally, but who am I to judge someone for their legal method of hunting?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

PBH said:


> It isn't? From what I've witnessed, it is as simple as setting up the trail camera, then dumping that bag of feed from IFA (or, just dog food, whatever your preference or budget allows). Re-apply every couple days and condition the deer to it. That's pretty simple. And it's effective. Then start dropping apples, apricots (!), plums, peaches....whatever you have, and the sweeter the better! Next thing you know, you'll be plucking an apricot from your 190" trophy buck's mouth before snapping a picture!
> 
> First, I vary clearly stated these things were my opinion, not gospel.
> 
> ...


"We don't have to do everything based on science" is a great line for Utah. Everyone else is presenting a scientific argument against it. That's why I said what I did.

Funny thing is, I don't even bait lol. It's more of a hassle than I have found it to be worth. If I really want to, I will just go hunt one of the other forum members cams that I stumble across on the mountain.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Packout said:


> Every leading biologist I have talked with, who studies mule deer, says congregating deer by feeding risks transmitting disease among the population. A pile of 1000 apples has deer on top of each other eating from the same pile/same trough. Ever watch a cow, sheep, or deer eat apples? They drip juice and saliva on everything they are eating, contaminating the pile.
> 
> I have heard of guys baiting Bighorns. Are the proponents of baiting all for that too? Wouldn't it be great to have pneumonia transfer among our sheep so a dude can more easily shoot a ram or photograph it? And wouldn't it be great to have Blue Tongue more easily transferred among our mule deer because someone wants an easier buck?
> 
> ...


I said it isn't as simple as it seems. In order to get them hitting apples, there has to be a ton, they have to be there consistently, and deer already have to be in the area.

Outfitters are putting bait on LE units, so high density units. You also find them in deliberate areas and they are continuously checked on. I know a TON of guides, and as I said before, they can hit it hard for some time, then disappear. I was meaning it's not like you go lay some apples, come out on the opener and blast your #1 target opening morning. You can do all the right things baiting, and they still may not come.

As for Bighorn... we can't even keep domestic sheep away from them. I'm not going to freak out about baiting when all it takes is one little bahhh bahh sheep killing an entire population. Lets figure that out first.

How much feed are we talking here? Kudos to the guy who can put a mineral lick and a bag of apples and get a hundred congregating like a football team at a buffet.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> We literally pile up meat, marshmellows, syrup, and a bunch of other **** to blast bears lol.


Yep. And it's effective. And the stations have to be registered.

Baiting is an advantage, just like all those other things you mentioned. 
If you want to address distance limits on muzzleloaders, moving the rifle hunt out of the rut, winter hunts, and shooting deer while mating -- I'd support most of those too. As for the article concerning baiting deer / elk, I'd like to see more discussion.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

As long as it is legal people can do it, I will not. If the law changes then I will abide by it and I will report those that do bait in violation of the law. One item I found to be interesting and contradictory is baiting on public vs private land. If the problem is that baiting spreads disease then it should be stopped all together; on private and public land. If the problem is disease spreading you can't curtail it by banning baiting here but not banning it there; disease will continue to spread. You can't say it's OK for the goose but not for the gander because that makes it a cop-out.

Factor the science and the ethics and look at the results and the impact of the practice. If it is bad practice then ban it if not carry on.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

I've hunted in several states that have baiting and it was also my job to sell feeders and understand the complex regulatory environment for feeding, supplements, seed, etc. 

There are some states that say ungulate urine can spread diseases, like estrus spray for elk and whitetail deer. Some states require synthetic urine. You say that those two aren't related. Oh but they are. 

You need to think in different terms. There are people who have a whole nutrition plan for their deer herd on private land. Texas is probably the biggest example. Feeders there are big business. The best deer call is the whirl of the feeder spreading "golden estrus" all over the ground. 

I've hunted pigs over feed. Feeders have different attachments to feed protein in off months to help critters develop proper nutrition and optimize health and be more disease resistant and produce healthier fawns. If a buck has good nutritional makeup and it doesn't have to dig into calcium reserves from its bones to grow antlers, then it will likely be healthier and grow larger antlers. 

There is a lot of feeding that is done year round to help total herd nutrition and game management is a real science. 

Now to the other side. I call it spill and kill. Dump out some apples, molases, corn, or whatever you want and wait for it. It's certainly cheaper and it is technically legal in Utah, along with supplements such as mineral and salt licks. One of the largest mineral producers in the country is in the great state of Utah. Know them well and they're good people. In neighboring states such as Colorado, any supplements aren't legal (except green human supplements). Planting any plant or any substance for the purpose of attracting and harvesting grain is illegal. Idaho it is legal. Montana it isn't legal. Nevada has regulations but things must be pulled before a certain date. Arizone requires synthetic urine (but real urine still sells better) for elk and deer. 

Bear baiting is even more tricky regulations state by state, by the way. 

Point is, it is a pretty complicated landscape and there are legitimate reasons to feed and legitimate arguments against it. 

Now, we all know that critters come into alfalfa fields to feed. Many leave hay bales out for critters to come munch on or attract them closer. Most say no big deal, but cry foul if corn or apples are dumped out. What's the difference? 

I've hunted over both and developed some awesome mineral lick locations. Nebraska requires all supplements be pulled a certain amount of days prior to hunting over it. 

The ethics and legality are interesting regionally. Professionally, I had interesting conversations with government, store, and the public. There were some who were morally opposed to it- even when legal. There were some locations where it was illegal to feed/bait/attract critters but a neighboring state was legal and we sold in those stores and did quite well there. We have no problem putting donuts for a bear but no way for apples for a deer? What about planting a load of beets/chicory/clover/turnips for winter forage for critters. 

I've hunted food plots that were not baited. 

It's really pretty interesting the perspectives everyone has on it. I know I found shooting a pig over corn to be one of the most boring things in the world. But having a hay bale near water hole sure made elk stick around and were sure tasty.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I tried bait one time... all I ended up with was a crap-ton of turkeys. They ate EVERYTHING.


-DallanC


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I tried bait one time... all I ended up with was a crap-ton of turkeys. They ate EVERYTHING.
> 
> -DallanC


Yes. They can empty a feeder quickly. Also *****. They're horrible. They can empty a feeder in a night. Have some funny pics with ***** and feeders.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

PBH said:


> Yep. And it's effective. And the stations have to be registered.
> 
> Baiting is an advantage, just like all those other things you mentioned.
> If you want to address distance limits on muzzleloaders, moving the rifle hunt out of the rut, winter hunts, and shooting deer while mating -- I'd support most of those too. As for the article concerning baiting deer / elk, I'd like to see more discussion.


I was pointing out that this is a weird time for us to start making decisions based on "ethics" given the boards history.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I'll still support you if you want to change of those things you mentioned as ethical concerns.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

RandomElk16 said:


> Could you elaborate? W2U liked this short post, I would love either of your thoughts on why.


Sorry for the delayed response - I am sure some have already alluded to these same conclusions, but I'm just not a fan of baiting. I think there is something inherently incorrect with it. Do I feel the same way about long range rifles? Spotting scopes? Rangefinders? ATVs? Maybe... I'm not entirely sure.

I lived in Texas for a while and listened to story after story about how someone killed a 'giant' sitting over bait. That doesn't sound like true fair-chase hunting to me. On the other hand, neither does sitting on a peak and killing something a mile away.

Another facet of baiting, and the associated trail cameras on the bait site, have given some an entitled attitude of, "I baited this deer/elk, named him, packed new apples to him daily . . . I deserve to kill this thing." Hence, why so many horror stories occur yearly of stolen/destroyed trail cameras, cleared memory cards, etc. Would the elimination of baiting fix this? Maybe. Maybe not. There will still be trail cameras on every waterhole...

In the end, I just think it's not sporting. I don't bait and I doubt I ever will. My opinion is just that . . . an opinion.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

I don’t bait but I do run cameras some times. 
I would be fine with doing away with both. Along with 2 way communication devices. 
But it will never happen. 

CWD is coming and anything we can do to slow it’s progress I’m on board with it


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Hoopermat said:


> I don't bait but I do run cameras some times.
> I would be fine with doing away with both. Along with 2 way communication devices.
> But it will never happen.
> 
> CWD is coming and anything we can do to slow it's progress I'm on board with it


Isn't that illegal already?

Edit: Turns out it is not illegal. It not accepted as a fair chase practice and your game will not make B&C or P&Y if you use them.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I have tried several salt licks and other baits I bought from Sportsman’s. I place them in areas I think deer or elk will cross through and think...they have to smell this and stop and fall in love with this place. 

I’m not great at hunting...and it hasn’t worked yet haha


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Also just to point out the article said there is a “required ethics course for bowhunters...and it doesn’t mention baiting at all.” 

There is no required course for bow hunting. Just a suggested one. Unless someone needs to check me real quick...


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Also just to point out the article said there is a "required ethics course for bowhunters...and it doesn't mention baiting at all."
> 
> There is no required course for bow hunting. Just a suggested one. Unless someone needs to check me real quick...


The extended archery hunt requires an ethics course


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Hopefully they make it illegal. I would also be happy if they banned trail cams, scopes on muzzleloaders, and shortened the archery and muzzleloader hunts. I just dont think it's fair that muzzleloaders can shoot as good as most hunting rifles could 30 years ago. And archery equipment technology had made 80 yard shots common place. When they decided to make the muzzleloader and archery seasons longer than the rifle most muzzy and bow hunters were still using traditional equipment that had much shorter ranges and was much less accurate than today's modern equipment.


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## hook69 (Nov 26, 2016)

What more do we need as hunters to increase our odds? With all the modern day technology I think baiting is just one more thing to give us another unfair advantage. 
But I also wish they would take away trail cameras, and long range shooting! We complain about the F&G not managing the game, and I agree there are a lot of things I would like to see them do different, but with all the modern crap we hunters have these days it's amazing many of the deer and elk live very long! Just my 2 cents!


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Before you do away with all the modern advancements of technology such as trail cams, feed, feeders, modern in line muzzleloaders, scopes, etc etc. 

Please be aware and be reminded of how much money is put into the economy, both indirectly and directly, because of these things. For example, major retailers donate a lot of millions of dollars for conservation, training, education, partnerships, etc that directly improve the hunting you enjoy. 

These companies pay taxes and your tax dollars through purchases of these innovations are put into the budgets of the state wildlife programs you want to be run better. 

It can be debated on whether or not we agree with the spending plans for those monies, but the fact that they're there and the source of those monies isn't really a debate. 

While you may not agree with the practice of baiting, trail cams, modern inline black powder, cross bows, and modern archery equipment, the fact is most of the people who are running those companies are absolutely passionate about resource and game management, hunter recruitment, habitat preservation, conservation, and maintaining the lifestyle we love. 

I know personally the ownership of several of these companies and they spend more time in the field, money in conservation efforts, have have more passion for the lifestyle than most of us. 

The thing we have to remember is that just because it isn't your way of thinking, and it isn't illegal, that doesn't make it immoral or unethical. I had to really work on that in my career to learn that my way isn't the only right way. It can be my preferred way, but just because someone puts a pile of apples in front of a camera or a treestand where legal, it doesn't make their critter any less special to them than the critter you harvested your way. Maybe they put the apples there to get a kid interested in hunting. Maybe there is a disability that prohibits someone hiking the hills to get their trophy. As long as it is legal, then who am I to say someone else shouldn't do it? 

My .02, which aren't worth a nickel.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Have the success rates really gone up? It does not appear to me that they have changed much over the years. Maybe someone can enlighten me?

Seems to me that the biggest threat to hunting comes from hunters themselves. Why do we insist on more and more regulations when in most cases they are addressing social reasons rather than biological reasons?

I don't bait and if it is proven it actually is detrimental to the animals then go ahead and ban it. But what to do about those attractive agricultural fields?


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Two Dumb questions:
1. Do mineral/salt licks count as baiting?


2. Has baiting always been "an issue" in Utah, or is it something that has been occurring more frequently recently, say in the in the last 3-4 years? 



Personally, I've never seen it (apples for example), but that doesn't mean it's not happening. I have seen some really old feeders in the La Sals, but they haven't been used in awhile. I'm always finding empty bags of salt.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Two Dumb questions:
> 1. Do mineral/salt licks count as baiting?


The depends on the state. Baiting vs supplements is subject to a little interpretation. Feeding and baiting is also different. Is it illegal to feed deer to keep them on a property so they're not hunted?

In Utah, if I remember correctly (haven't had to deal with that in a couple of years) it is technically legal.

I would say that even though it was legal, it was not stocked in Utah Cabela's retail assortment just because it didn't sell and there was limited space. Same reason there wasn't the 25 treestands that we offered in Pennsylvania sitting in Utah. That was more of an inventory management strategy, as a side note.


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## hook69 (Nov 26, 2016)

I don't know if success rates have gone up? Probably not. But what I have noticed is there seems to be less mature bucks and less deer than 30+ years ago. Obviously we have more people now, but I think there are less tags sold. So why are the deer numbers down? Obviously there are many factors...? I am not in favor of baiting. If the powers that be say it's legal then great! Trail cameras and all the other modern day tech is out there. So I guess, the way they can keep animals/numbers will be to keep cutting tags. But maybe we can get a tag to hunt deer every 3rd or 4th year? Then we will be able to set out trail cameras all year and then find the animal we are going to shoot from a 1000 yds away! So we can post it all over social media! In all reality baiting isn't going to be that big of advantage, but it's just one more thing, until the next one comes along!


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Two Dumb questions:
> 1. Do mineral/salt licks count as baiting?
> 
> 2. Has baiting always been "an issue" in Utah, or is it something that has been occurring more frequently recently, say in the in the last 3-4 years?
> ...


Sheep herders and ranchers commonly leave salt / mineral blocks on their leases. They not only attract sheep and cows but all kinds of other animals.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Sheep herders and Ranchers are supposed remove any salt licks/mineral every year off of forest land.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

https://www.qdma.com/10-weird-parasites-live-inside-deer/

I'm not exactly educated on the topic but after reading this I decided baiting wasnt a good thing. But I'm no one to really say much.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

CPAjeff said:


> Sorry for the delayed response - I am sure some have already alluded to these same conclusions, but I'm just not a fan of baiting. I think there is something inherently incorrect with it. Do I feel the same way about long range rifles? Spotting scopes? Rangefinders? ATVs? Maybe... I'm not entirely sure.
> 
> I lived in Texas for a while and listened to story after story about how someone killed a 'giant' sitting over bait. That doesn't sound like true fair-chase hunting to me. On the other hand, neither does sitting on a peak and killing something a mile away.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jeff.. Nothing worse than the "my deer" mentality.

I will never forget *ridget *abel cry ranting about someone shooting her deer. On public land.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

ns450f said:


> Hopefully they make it illegal. I would also be happy if they banned trail cams, scopes on muzzleloaders, and shortened the archery and muzzleloader hunts. I just dont think it's fair that muzzleloaders can shoot as good as most hunting rifles could 30 years ago. And archery equipment technology had made 80 yard shots common place. When they decided to make the muzzleloader and archery seasons longer than the rifle most muzzy and bow hunters were still using traditional equipment that had much shorter ranges and was much less accurate than today's modern equipment.


Umm...

What muzzleloader hunt is longer than a rifle hunt? GS rifle deer and GS ML deer are both 9 days. GS Rifle elk is 12 days, while GS ML elk is 9 days.

Archery has a very low success rate. Not sure the argument to shorten that. Most guys still can't hit the broad side of a freaking barn at 50 yards with a bow (and that's with this awesome equipment). While I understand the very very hidden core of your argument (advancement of primitive weapons), I don't agree with this stance on it.

I don't think we should be able to have electronic rangefinder sights on bows, and I think we should be 1X max on ML like it was, and maximize the powder charge to 150gr or less. Pellets or powder should have to be seated in the barrel, not in any type of cartridge or casing.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> 2. Has baiting always been "an issue" in Utah, or is it something that has been occurring more frequently recently, say in the in the last 3-4 years?


Just an ignorant assumption on my part, but I would say that there is probably a correlation between the increase in trail camera use over the last number of years and the use of bait.

A 40 pound bag of water softener salt costs $4.99 at Smith's. That's a lot of salt, for cheap. That wouldn't be hard to take a bunch of that and spread in front of each camera. A 50# bag of feed from IFA is cheap too (~$15). And all those apples, peaches, and apricots falling off your tree and rotting? Yep. All pretty easy to access and dump in front of a camera.

Some of you keep saying that it isn't effective are crazy. Just do a google search for deer baiting. That's a big market. Effective or not, people are doing it, and it's gaining a head of steam.

My FIL killed a "management" buck off Pauns this year (archery). It's a monster 3x5. Probably scores around 190". They fed it apricots. You can't tell me it isn't effective.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Anything that isn't naturally occurring is considered "baiting". 

I can show you a spot up on the Plateau right now where there is a pop up trailer sitting right across a road from a water pond. When they show up for the general deer hunt one or two pumpkins will be broken up at the pond. Opening morning one or two small bucks will be shot at that pond from lawn chairs near the pop up camper. The camper and occupants will be gone come Sunday morning.

This has been going on for the last several years that I know of


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

The one question that hasn't been touched yet is enforcement if it's banned. We all know that DWR already struggles to keep up with field time with current regulations. The feed stations I've seen and salt licks I've found have always been a ways from any roads. We would have to have buy-in and hunter participation when it comes to reporting even to make a mild dent in the issue. In my understanding, regulations that can't be effectively enforced and don't have significant public support lead to serious problems for agencies.

To the issue of monies from sales, I don't trust any self reported donations as reliable. If/when we tax it like we do ammunition and firearms then I will reconsider my stance on it's benefit to funding wildlife conservation. Until then I'm very skeptical on its direct benefit to Utah's herds. If companies are so dedicated then I suggest they volunteer their industries to be part of current bills we see floating around (like taxing outdoor equipment for wildlife protection).

Technology always challenges community ethics. In my opinion, Utah has already slid down that slippery slope. We don't need more recruitment for the foreseeable future. We don't need more hunters afield. Our herds can barely handle current success rates. We are on the verge of CWD impacting our deer and elk. There is no benefit to deer herds from allowing baiting if we hope to manage them for decades to come for hunting. 

I'm glad they are bringing this up but I'm not sure there is enough public support to change policy and ultimately I'm not convinced it can be effectively enforced. I hope I'm wrong on that assessment as I'm currently not hopeful about Utah's current trajectory on managing their herds or hunter experience/expectations.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> Anything that isn't naturally occurring is considered "baiting".
> 
> I can show you a spot up on the Plateau right now where there is a pop up trailer sitting right across a road from a water pond. When they show up for the general deer hunt one or two pumpkins will be broken up at the pond. Opening morning one or two small bucks will be shot at that pond from lawn chairs near the pop up camper. The camper and occupants will be gone come Sunday morning.
> 
> This has been going on for the last several years that I know of


With a setup that smooth, there has to be some beers along with it lol.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

PBH said:


> Just an ignorant assumption on my part, but I would say that there is probably a correlation between the increase in trail camera use over the last number of years and the use of bait.


Yep.. and that d*** social media!


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

RandomElk16 said:


> Yep.. and that d*** social media!


I blame most of the issues we have today hunting wise on social media. Everyone's doin it for the gram


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Maybe this has already been said in another way, but I'm not sure why anyone cares about baiting when the likelihood of shooting a trophy animal over bait is really tiny. Ultimately hunters are a tool for conservation and population control. We are given a certain number tags to reach a population goal and those tag numbers are set based on our success within the current set of rules, if you choose to hunt with a specific set of rules that are not necessarily legally defined it seems like it should be up to you.

That said, it wouldn't be a crazy proposition to ban baiting for LE and OIL hunts. If the point is for everyone in the unit is to harvest a trophy animal it doesn't seem fair to be baiting to increase your chance of shooting the best one in the unit when your turn comes up.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

sheepassassin said:


> The extended archery hunt requires an ethics course


Yep. Doesn't change what I or they said. There is not a required course for all bowhunters.

Just to participate in that one hunt.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

sheepassassin said:


> I blame most of the issues we have today hunting wise on social media. Everyone's doin it for the gram


Sheep, I have nothing against you at all, so don't take this the wrong way. But you have your Instagram handle at the bottom of all your posts on UWN.

You are contributing to it just like lots of us do. I follow you because I enjoy your pictures.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Sheep, I have nothing against you at all, so don't take this the wrong way. But you have your Instagram handle at the bottom of all your posts on UWN.
> 
> You are contributing to it just like lots of us do. I follow you because I enjoy your pictures.


If Instagram and Facebook was gone tomorrow, I'd still be hunting, just as hard as I do now. There aren't many guys, especially younger hunters, who can say the same. The odds get even lower if any of them are on prostaffs


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> Sheep herders and ranchers commonly leave salt / mineral blocks on their leases. They not only attract sheep and cows but all kinds of other animals.


Yeah I realize. I've seen the sheep herders/ranchers setup. They'll leave it in hallowed out logs, or in some plastic pans spread around where they bring their sheep in for the night.



PBH said:


> Just an ignorant assumption on my part, but I would say that there is probably a correlation between the increase in trail camera use over the last number of years and the use of bait.


The reason I asked if it was in the last few years, is because of out of station migration. I was wondering if we've a number of hunters from back east who've moved to Utah, and just started working the mountains in the only way they know how. My understanding is feeders/baiting is just how they roll back east. Lots of assumptions there I know.

But you do bring up a good point with trailcam usage and baiting. Lots of people use trail cams, and if they can't find a good funnel or watering hole, they'll make their own "spot deer/elk will frequent" by laying out minerals and salt. Some big name hunting channels on youtube (IE. HUSH) use "Critter lick" near their trail cams.

As baiting goes, my personal opinion is maybe it shouldn't be allowed. I hate saying that, because I'm not a big fan of more government regulation. It seems to me, baiting has the potential to have a high impact, and i've the impression it's a way of "cheating the game" so to speak.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

ns450f said:


> Hopefully they make it illegal. I would also be happy if they banned trail cams, scopes on muzzleloaders, and shortened the archery and muzzleloader hunts. I just dont think it's fair that muzzleloaders can shoot as good as most hunting rifles could 30 years ago. And archery equipment technology had made 80 yard shots common place. When they decided to make the muzzleloader and archery seasons longer than the rifle most muzzy and bow hunters were still using traditional equipment that had much shorter ranges and was much less accurate than today's modern equipment.


I would like to see archery and muzzy seasons extended. And take the rifle out of the rut. And also stop shooting spikes. 
But that also won't ever happen. Not in utah


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

sheepassassin said:


> If Instagram and Facebook was gone tomorrow, I'd still be hunting, just as hard as I do now. There aren't many guys, especially younger hunters, who can say the same. The odds get even lower if any of them are on prostaffs


There may be a generational difference for the young kids who just grew up with social media around. Guys like you or me, I assume we are close in age (29), learned to love hunting before the internet was even in most peoples homes. I remember my dad and uncles dragging me along on hunts in the mid to late 90's.

I do see pros and cons to the hunting/fishing world inside the social media machine. And I have to admit, I wasn't aware baiting was legal in Utah until I saw it on YouTube. Go figure.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

sheepassassin said:


> If Instagram and Facebook was gone tomorrow, I'd still be hunting, just as hard as I do now. There aren't many guys, especially younger hunters, who can say the same. The odds get even lower if any of them are on prostaffs


Not sure I understand. You saying they (younger hunters) just aren't willing to work as hard if "likes" weren't involved? I do have the impression there are some younger guys out there who aren't willing to put down as much boot leather as I would; but I figured it was just an individual thing, not a generational thing.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Not sure I understand. You saying they (younger hunters) just aren't willing to work as hard if "likes" weren't involved? I do have the impression there are some younger guys out there who aren't willing to put down as much boot leather as I would; but I figured it was just an individual thing, not a generational thing.


Lots and lots of younger kids are only into hunting because it's 'cool'. I'm sure some would do it as much as they do regardless of social media status, but there would be quite a few drop out if the internet disappeared.

Another example is shed hunting. The number of participants has exploded in the last 8 years. Social media and money is the main driving factor in that. If those 2 factors went away, so would most of the kids who do it now.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Lets say that there are a lot of younger hunters that don't want to put down the boot leather. However there are some that will be up 4 hours before the crack of dawn and out with their headlamps lit headed up onto that hill looking for that elk or deer, but not many.


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