# CCW



## elkunited (Aug 16, 2019)

Favorite place in Utah county to do your CCW class?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Chubby's. They have classes scheduled quite often and you get lunch with the class.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Personally I'd take a class that had a live fire range portion attached to it. If anything it will be an eye opener on how crappy most people shoot. I took mine at GetSome in orem several years ago (8 or 9 years ago I think), back when they were the only indoor range open on sunday. If I were to take one now, I might consider ReadyGunner. It's more of a tactical or tacticool range (with a nice coffee shop), but I've the impression they have fewer NG's then GetSome does. Last I was in Getsome a couple years ago, I saw waaaayyy too many bullet holes through the shooting lane bench's, and into the ceiling. I think it's become a place the newbies gravitate too.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Do you really want to be around someone who has no idea of how to shoot? 

I am comfortable in my knowledge and ability with a handgun where I don't need to be in a class where I am with a number of people that have no idea when we are at a live fire area.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> Do you really want to be around someone who has no idea of how to shoot?
> 
> .


In an unsupervised environment, absolutely not. In some states, a live fire portion of a CCW class is mandatory. In Utah, it's not, unless that's changed. Still, I think it's a good idea to take a class that has a live fire portion to it, it's educational in it's own right. Some things, just have to be experienced. :mrgreen:


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## elkunited (Aug 16, 2019)

Thanks for your responses. Payday was smaller this time around so I guess I'll give one of these a whirl on the next check.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

I could be totally wrong and feeling lazy to look it up lol but I also think the live fire CCW course is recognized in a couple more states than the non live fire course.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I haven't read anything like that, but that Utah's permit is actually accepted in a lot more states than other states permits.

Here is a link to the states that honor Utah's CC permits

https://utahcarrylaws.com/utah-cfp/reciprocity-map/

.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I could be mistaken, but I believe the lack of live fire on the initial course is why we don't have reciprocity with a couple more states. There's also politics involved of course. Playing tit for tat and the like.


There is one thing I've come to hate about CCW in general within the last couple years, It's that I've come to feel obligated to carry, and I've grown to not want to carry. Ironic since before I felt no obligation but gladly carried.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you look at the map that I linked to you will see that the majority of the states that don't honor Utah's CC are strong anti gun states and one city. 

Utah has one of the best CC's to have. You will also notice the number of non Utah residents that obtain a Utah permit because of this. According to the link there are 261,185 permit holders that call Utah home and 434,298 permit holders are non-residents.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> If you look at the map that I linked to you will see that the majority of the states that don't honor Utah's CC are strong anti gun states and one city.
> 
> Utah has one of the best CC's to have. You will also notice the number of non Utah residents that obtain a Utah permit because of this. According to the link there are 261,185 permit holders that call Utah home and 434,298 permit holders are non-residents.


You are correct, though I never bothered to look at where we don't have reciprocity with outside of California. They have reciprocity with nobody, which isn't surprising.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> There is one thing I've come to hate about CCW in general within the last couple years, It's that I've come to feel obligated to carry, and I've grown to not want to carry. Ironic since before I felt no obligation but gladly carried.


I'm sure there are as many reason people carry or not as there are people.

I'm not sure why you would feel obligated to carry if you didn't want to. Just having the permit does not obligate you to carry. It only gives you permission if you want to.

I'm pretty sure if the occasion arises that it is needed nobody but you would even question it but you.

I went out to dinner the other night with my family. There were 10 of us who I know have a CCP. How many were packing? I have no idea. The genius of concealed carry.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> I'm sure there are as many reason people carry or not as there are people.
> 
> I'm not sure why you would feel obligated to carry if you didn't want to. Just having the permit does not obligate you to carry. It only gives you permission if you want to.
> 
> ...


It is my unsubstantiated thought that most Utahns who have a CFP, don't actually carry. The reason I think this is because everyone I know who has a CFP, obtained it for either archery hunting, or to just to make it easier to buy long guns. Nobody I personally know, who has a CFP, carries in town. Although I acknowledge, this is probably just the family bubble.

As for feeling obligated, having a CFP isn't what is making me feel obligated. It's not a sheepdog badge or anything like that. I feel obligated because Utah valley is being Californicated at a breakneck pace. It seems like everything bad has been on the rise because, as I see it, all these people moving in from California, and enough of them are bringing crime and vice with them.

I have the misfortune of having to visit that state on an annual basis (thankfully we didn't have to go this year), and things that I saw only there, I am now seeing here, and i do not like it. I feel obligated because I am protective of my family; Utah valley is changing, and not for the better.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I’ve taken the class three times. Every time I’ve opted not to get my CCW because the instructor did a poor job teaching the course and left the participants poorly prepared.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Why not the the CC because the instructor did a poor job, or do you feel that you are not prepared to obtain a license?

I'd just go get the license and then if you want take a separate firearm course in the future. As was mentioned a few threads ago, just because you have one doesn't mean that you need to carry


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Critter said:


> Why not the the CC because the instructor did a poor job, or do you feel that you are not prepared to obtain a license?
> 
> I'd just go get the license and then if you want take a separate firearm course in the future. As was mentioned a few threads ago, just because you have one doesn't mean that you need to carry


Oddly each class I've taken has the same low quality instruction that basically boils down to a BS session about what guns everyone owns and some ludicrous story about the one time he almost drew his gun.

I work in the legal world so I'm hyper analytical about my responsibilities and obligations so I'd like an instructor that actually talks shop rather than paying to hang out with a goofball that's sending people into the world I'll prepared and I'll informed.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I know that on the course that I took for my CC that I knew more about a firearm than the instructor did. He spent more time talking about how long it was taking for him to get his tax stamp so that he could place the suppressor onto a rifle that he had. He did do a couple of demonstrations with those in the class on how fast someone can move at you from a short distance and how quick your decision to fire or not is. 

Overall I didn't come away with anything from the class other than the certificate that I needed to apply for my CC.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

There is plenty of information out there as to the legal use of deadly force. My suggestion is go through the class with the assumption of it being a 101 course.

There are countless entities out there that will supply advance degrees. Think of it as continuing education. Educate to your hearts desire.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Does anyone find it odd that these people are considered “qualified” to teach these courses?

Imagine how many people they are sending to BCI to get their background checks


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Somewhere around my home, I'm pretty sure I've the information from the CCW course I took. I recall the instructor spending some time on the legalities, and how carrying a firearm changes you the instant you walk out the door. How your held to a higher standard. I don't recall every detail, but one takeaway I have always remembered was that this instructor had some LE experience, and he said if your are ever involved in a shooting, say only three things, and afterwards keep your mouth shut:
1. I was in fear for my life.
2. I shot until the threat stopped.
3. I would like a lawyer.


Say no more then that. He then went on to relate how some indviduals would run their mouths, and how while he agreed with them, wished they'd shut up because they were just digging themselves into a hole. ANything you say to the cops is admissible in court.


This same instructor, required a live fire segment, even though it wasn't required. Wish I could remember his name, I thought he did a good job. I do recall though, that I took this course at GetSome in Orem, maybe 5 or 6 years ago? Maybe longer, I dont recall exactly, ive renewed my permit a couple years ago.


edit:
Then theres Clint smith from Thunderranch, who said it best. "There's a lawyer attached to every bullet that leaves your barrel" or words to that effect.


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