# Wyoming trying to legalize silencers



## wyogoob

Wyoming legislators will soon vote on a bill to legalize silencers on hunting firearms.

see: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional ... b63fc.html

Can someone explain to me the (legal) difference between a flash suppressor and a silencer?


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## Al Hansen

Flash suppressors hide the flash of the powder burning. and the silencer helps tone done the bang.


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## Springville Shooter

?


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## DallanC

Sorry, pet peeve but:

THEY ARE CORRECTLY CALLED SUPRESORS!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor



> A suppressor, sound suppressor, or sound moderator, is a device attached to or part of the barrel of a firearm which reduces the amount of noise and also usually the amount of muzzle flash generated by firing the weapon. Suppressors can be used both with gunpowder-based weapons and with compressed air weapons. Sometimes referred to as a silencer, this term is a misnomer associated with "movie magic", as firearms cannot be "silenced" due to the pure physics of the projectile moving through the air. Long distance shooting (i.e. greater than 300 meters), while using a supressor can result in a very low, or retarded, report noise at the moment of impact, creating a "silenting" notion at the point of target. The noise heard at the firearm location as the point a projectile leaves the barrel, though subdued, is not silent at all.[1]


They surpress the sound but it will never be completely eliminated, you also need to use sub-sonic ammunition to really get the sound down. Except for maybe the .300 whisper, not sure how much of an effect it will have on a hunting rifle launching bullets at nearly 3x the speed of sound.

-DallanC


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## Treehugnhuntr

Springville Shooter said:


> I have a friend that has a T/C Encore chambered in 50 Alsakan with a silencer. He loads surplus BMG bullets in it to achieve velocities optimal for silencing. This thing is fun, accurate, and really quiet. He has a cabin in Idaho, and on cold days, we have shot out the open door at targets on the hillside. Even indoors it is no more that a hiss. With the range compensating scope he has it is very accurate out to 500 yards and fairly accurate out to 800! I want one really bad, but don't want to go through the BS to get one. In the county he lives in, he has to maintain a letter from the sheriff to have the can. If I hadn't personally witnessed this thing, I would never believe how quiet it is. I think the can was made by a guy in Montana but I'm not sure.---------SS


Might wanna edit the part about shooting out the front door.......


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## Wind In His Hair

You hear the terms "flash hider" and "silencer" used as inaccurate monikers for flash suppressors and sound suppressors, although they are both exaggerated. A flash suppressor vents the flash out the sides and away from the line of sight from the shooter to prevent getting blinded by the flash at night. It doesn't actually hide the flash, just disperses it. Instead of one big fireball coming out the front, a few smaller ones star out in whatever pattern the vents are configured. Our troops still have a visible flash signature at night. It's more about preserving their ability to see, not preventing being seen by the enemy. The birdcage flash suppressor is the most common example, and is the one you see the most on your run of the mill AR-15s. 

A sound suppressor reduces the decibel level of the report of the firearm, and use of subsonic ammo coupled with this is the most efficient in sound suppression. Usually, the amount of noise reduction is only about 20-30 decibels. The action still makes noise, and there definitely is still a report. It is not like the movies where they seem almost silent, that's all Hollywood sound guys.


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## Bax*

Thank you for your post Dallan, that is a pet peeve of mine as well.

Hollywood has misled the public again in understanding what a suppressor is. In most movies you hear a contrived sound that sounds nothing like a suppressor and the goofballs make it seem as though the shot is virtually silent which is most often completely false. 

Suppressors are essentially sound dampeners and are IMO a very nice thing to have for hunting situations as they will mitigate (but not eliminate) the sound of a firearm which is a huge benefit for the hunter's ears. Nearly every hunter will be using supersonic rounds which means that there will still be a loud bang but the suppressor will cut down the decibels to make the sound of the shot much more tolerable to the shooter and those around but the shot will still be heard from a long distance.

In order for the round to be "silenced," the projectile needs to run at sub-sonic speeds and then the shooter will generally hear the action of the firearm cycling and little more than that. So long as the projectile is traveling under about 1,100 FPS, the suppressor will do a dandy job.


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## wyogoob

Thanks everyone. I will pass the comments on to Knox Williams, secretary of the American Silencer Association.

I was kinda looking for legal descriptions or the way other states have "it" wrote up. 

And I can't apologize enough for using the wrong term, back where I grew up we called them "silencers". Middle-aged grumpy fellas that owned flower shops and whose last names ended in a vowel used them. 

Safety first.


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## BPturkeys

OK, now listen up Goob and Al...the word is Suppressor, you hear...su-ppress-or, ****-it, I'm so angry.


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## wyogoob

BPturkeys said:


> OK, now listen up Goob and Al...the word is Suppressor, you hear...su-ppress-or, ****-it, I'm so angry.


Thanks BP. No math lesson?

Hey, I wonder how many clicked on my link?


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## BPturkeys

I must admit that I got so interested in your "reaming" that I missed the link. I have since went back and looked. Don't know what to think, but I do know it'll be a cold day in H*** before I put the muffler off a small car on the end of one of my rifles. It just looks so bad.


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## wyogoob

"reaming"?

"muffler"?

I'm against (noise) suppressors. They're for poaching or killing someone. Maybe OK for prairie dogs and tree squirrels though.


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## bwhntr

wyogoob said:


> "reaming"?
> 
> "muffler"?
> 
> I'm against (noise) suppressors. They're for poaching or killing someone. Maybe OK for prairie dogs and tree squirrels though.


That is silly logic. Isn't poaching already illegal? Legalize them,I doubt you will ever notice a difference except less government intervention.


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## wyogoob

This is the current Wyoming statute for "silencers" that they are trying to amend.

W.S. 23-3-112(a) Firearms; automatic weapon or silencer prohibited. No person shall take into or possess in the game fields or forests of Wyoming any fully automatic weapon or device designed to silence or muffle the report of any firearm. 

What are sound suppressor, sound moderator, silencer, and/or muzzle-blast muffler laws in Utah?


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## DallanC

Get the local police chief to sign a Form 4, pay the federal tax of $200 PER suppressor. 

*edit rereading that statute, its only attempting to make it legal to HUNT with, it has nothing to do with ownership.

-DallanC


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## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> Get the local police chief to sign a Form 4, pay the federal tax of $200 PER suppressor.
> 
> *edit rereading that statute, its only attempting to make it legal to HUNT with, it has nothing to do with ownership.
> 
> -DallanC


thanks


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## Moostickles

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Springville Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend that has a T/C Encore chambered in 50 Alsakan with a silencer. He loads surplus BMG bullets in it to achieve velocities optimal for silencing. This thing is fun, accurate, and really quiet. He has a cabin in Idaho, and on cold days, we have shot out the open door at targets on the hillside. Even indoors it is no more that a hiss. With the range compensating scope he has it is very accurate out to 500 yards and fairly accurate out to 800! I want one really bad, but don't want to go through the BS to get one. In the county he lives in, he has to maintain a letter from the sheriff to have the can. If I hadn't personally witnessed this thing, I would never believe how quiet it is. I think the can was made by a guy in Montana but I'm not sure.---------SS
> 
> 
> 
> Might wanna edit the part about shooting out the front door.......
Click to expand...

Why? Nothing in the law, Utah law at least, says you cannot shoot from inside a structure. Out of city limits, you have to be 200 feet from any structure that has living space for people or livestock *unless you have permission from the owner*. Assuming that he is shooting from his cabin, I would think he is out of city limits, and he probably also gave himself permission...

Check page 33 in the 2012 Field Regs.


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## Moostickles

wyogoob said:


> I'm against (noise) suppressors. *They're for poaching* or killing someone. Maybe OK for prairie dogs and tree squirrels though.


That's what "they" say about crossbows in Utah, and there's no truth in that either. If somebody is going to poach, a suppressor isn't going to enable them any more than the miles-and-miles of wilderness around them.

I could see silencers being very effective for varmint hunting, and also a plus for those that are concerned about their hearing while hunting. I would be all for it.


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## Al Hansen

wyogoob said:


> This is the current Wyoming statute for "silencers" that they are trying to amend.
> 
> W.S. 23-3-112(a) Firearms; automatic weapon or silencer prohibited. No person shall take into or possess in the game fields or forests of Wyoming any fully automatic weapon or device designed to silence or muffle the report of any firearm.
> 
> What are sound suppressor, sound moderator, silencer, and/or muzzle-blast muffler laws in Utah?


See BP and Dallan , even the government calls em silencers. :^8^:


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## wyogoob

In Wyoming you can possess firearm sound reducing, muffling, suppressing, silencing devices, just can't hunt with them.

Well, I can't find a copy of the proposed bill. The internet guardians of the 2nd Amendment claim the bill also has a clause stuck in it allowing the possession of fully-automatic weapons while hunting; can't harvest game with them, but you can possess them while hunting. That's what I'm talkin' about. Maybe this whole bill is to protect Wyomingites from zombies, or worse yet, wolves. 


Can you use sound suppressors for hunting in Utah? in your own cabin in Utah?


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## Mojo1

I have a couple of them. as said they will not completely silence/supress the gunshot. however I worked up a sub sonic load for bolt action 223 that is quieter than my buddies 22 cal air rifle, the bullet hitting is just as loud as the shot. :shock: 

Still waiting on my 30 cal's paperwork to come back.

Oklahoma legailized them for hunting effective 1 Nov on private land.


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## Loke

Al Hansen said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the current Wyoming statute for "silencers" that they are trying to amend.
> 
> W.S. 23-3-112(a) Firearms; automatic weapon or silencer prohibited. No person shall take into or possess in the game fields or forests of Wyoming any fully automatic weapon or device designed to silence or muffle the report of any firearm.
> 
> What are sound suppressor, sound moderator, silencer, and/or muzzle-blast muffler laws in Utah?
> 
> 
> 
> See BP and Dallan , even the government calls em silencers. :^8^:
Click to expand...

That is because the government gets all of their firearm knowledge from the idiots in hollywood.


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## Al Hansen

True. I watched Clint's Magnum Force last night. One scene had a guy screwing a Supressor/silencer on a revolver. :lol:


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## wyogoob

Al Hansen said:


> True. I watched Clint's Magnum Force last night. One scene had a guy screwing a Supressor/silencer on a revolver. :lol:


Ouch.

Do you guys know if it's legal to use sound suppressors for hunting in Utah?


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## longbow

Al Hansen said:


> True. I watched Clint's Magnum Force last night. One scene had a guy screwing a Supressor/silencer on a revolver. :lol:


I'm insulted. 
Not the first time a gun movie has insulted me though.


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## Airborne

wyogoob said:


> Al Hansen said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. I watched Clint's Magnum Force last night. One scene had a guy screwing a Supressor/silencer on a revolver. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Do you guys know if it's legal to use sound suppressors for hunting in Utah?
Click to expand...

This says yes

http://www.advanced-armament.com/

Maybe it's one of those things that is not prohibited so it makes it legal without a law specifying its legality


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## wyogoob

Airborne said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al Hansen said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. I watched Clint's Magnum Force last night. One scene had a guy screwing a Supressor/silencer on a revolver. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Do you guys know if it's legal to use sound suppressors for hunting in Utah?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This says yes
> 
> http://www.advanced-armament.com/
> 
> Maybe it's one of those things that is not prohibited so it makes it legal without a law specifying its legality
Click to expand...

thanks Airborne


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## Treehugnhuntr

I had a two month long ATF inspection a few months back. The agent referred to them as both suppressors and silencers.

Hope this lends clarity. :mrgreen: o-||


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## wyogoob

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I had a two month long ATF inspection a few months back. The agent referred to them as both suppressors and silencers.
> 
> Hope this lends clarity. :mrgreen: o-||


Yeah, yeah, they work for the government.

I found the proposed rule change, had to type *"silencers"* in the search engine. Who'd a thunk? 

The proposal is sponsored by the Wyoming Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Interim Committee.......and who said we're a bunch of hicks over here?

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/interimComm ... 0092W1.pdf


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## Bax*

Airborne said:


> This says yes
> 
> http://www.advanced-armament.com/
> 
> Maybe it's one of those things that is not prohibited so it makes it legal without a law specifying its legality


Thats a pretty cool map


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## wyogoob

Yeah, cool website.


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## longbow

We should call them silencer surppressors.


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## Springville Shooter

But either way we should never try to suppress silencers or silence suppressors, just like we should reserve the right to keep and arm bears as well as keep and bear arms.------SS


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## wyogoob

Springville Shooter said:


> But either way we should never try to suppress silencers or silence suppressors, just like we should reserve the right to keep and arm bears as well as keep and bear arms.------SS


That's a goodun!


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## Theekillerbee

My form 4 calls it a "SILENCER". Either way, quit pizzing over the name. They are one-in-the-same. Like potato, or potatoe, it's the same thing! You say supressor, I say silencer....blah blah blah, Chevy is better then Ford, Doge is better than Ford.... when all is said and done, it is the same thing. You are not incorrect by calling it a supressor or a silencer, no matter what those idiots at Wikipedia say.


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## Moostickles

Theekillerbee said:


> My form 4 calls it a "SILENCER". Either way, quit pizzing over the name. They are one-in-the-same. Like potato, or potatoe, it's the same thing! You say supressor, I say silencer....blah blah blah, Chevy is better then Ford, Doge is better than Ford.... when all is said and done, it is the same thing. You are not incorrect by calling it a supressor or a silencer, no matter what those idiots at Wikipedia say.


So tell us how you really feel about it...


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## GaryFish

Well, back to the original issue - poachers are going to poach. Legal or not, they'll use supressors/silencers on their weapons. Poaching is already illegal. Its the same argument we love to use about any kind of gun-involved violent crime. If a guy is going to illegally take game, they aren't going to care if the weapon they are using is legal or not. Having supressors/silencers illegal just takes that option away from law-abiding people that won't be poaching anyway.


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## wyogoob

Al Hansen said:


> Flash suppressors hide the flash of the powder burning. and the silencer helps tone done the bang.


Thanks AL.


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## DallanC

-DallanC


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## Theekillerbee

Pretty cool video Dallan. That's a great way to have a multi-gun supressor. Sure a lot cheaper than stuff from SilencerCo.


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## MadHunter

Here is a funny video done my buddy Hayden over at Silencerco. Talk about a dream job. He is the marketing director for silencerco and gets to play with guns all day then got to places like the shot show to show them off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... x8EJpL1Uhk

BTW...... the guy that gets slapped is the CEO.


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## wyogoob

ouch!

That's cool


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## Mojo1

GaryFish said:


> Well, back to the original issue - poachers are going to poach. Legal or not, they'll use supressors/silencers on their weapons. Poaching is already illegal. Its the same argument we love to use about any kind of gun-involved violent crime. If a guy is going to illegally take game, they aren't going to care if the weapon they are using is legal or not. Having supressors/silencers illegal just takes that option away from law-abiding people that won't be poaching anyway.


yeap, most poachers are not going to go to the trouble to obtain a legal supressor in the first place, I know of two cases where groups were using supressed guns to hunt out of season, but then they were also killing them at night with a NV scope (also a no no) over bait.

I believe the main reason they legalized them here in OK was to reduce landowner/homeowner conflicts over gunshots in some urban areas, least that what they said.


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## wyogoob

Looks like the WY silencer bill has passed the House and Senate yesterday and has gone to the Governor for signature.

see: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional ... 16450.html

Groups like the Wyoming Gun Owners Association and the American Silencer Association have been working hard to see the bill pass and other groups like the Wyoming Game Wardens Association have lobbied against it. At one time it looked like using suppressors for big game wasn't going to be allowed but the final bill included all game and predators.

The bill also allows "sportsmen" to be in possession of fully-automatic weapons in the field even though harvesting game with a full-auto is prohibited.

I feel much safer now. :roll:


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## wyogoob

I pray that the individuals in my neighborhood that insist on the celebratory discharging of firearms up in the air at midnight on New Years Eve, Chinese New Years, the 4th of July, Days of 47, Evanston Cowboy Days and when Dick Cheney has sucessful heart surgery, will buy silencers.


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## Airborne

wyogoob said:


> Looks like the WY silencer bill has passed the House and Senate yesterday and has gone to the Governor for signature.
> 
> The bill also allows "sportsmen" to be in possession of fully-automatic weapons in the field even though harvesting game with a full-auto is prohibited.
> 
> I feel much safer now. :roll:


There are around 200,000 fully auto firearms in the US, all registered with fingerprints and photos and a tax stamp, most sell for over $10,000 because of the rarity. None of these firearms has ever been used in a crime to my knowledge. It seems like you disagree with this law and I don't understand why, am I reading you wrong?

I am glad the silencer bill passed, save some ears. Criminals and poachers generally do not go through the hassle of buying an ATF registered item, can anyone name one? I would really like to see some evidence of people breaking the law while using a silencer, I bet they would lock you up for many years and it would prob be a federal crime since you are using a restricted device.


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## wyogoob

Airborne said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the WY silencer bill has passed the House and Senate yesterday and has gone to the Governor for signature.
> 
> The bill also allows "sportsmen" to be in possession of fully-automatic weapons in the field even though harvesting game with a full-auto is prohibited.
> 
> I feel much safer now. :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> There are around 200,000 fully auto firearms in the US, all registered with fingerprints and photos and a tax stamp, most sell for over $10,000 because of the rarity. None of these firearms has ever been used in a crime to my knowledge. It seems like you disagree with this law and I don't understand why, am I reading you wrong?
> 
> You bring up a good point. Full-autos are very pricey and I doubt if there's too many registered to Wyoming residents. I know of four Class 3 guys here in town, see them at the range. One was even a state senator at one time. I could be wrong, but boy I work all over the state and mingle with a lot of Wyoming gun enthusiasts, make a lot of Wyoming gun stores, and just don't meet many full-auto guys.
> 
> So we can have full-autos in possession while hunting, but can't kill any game with them. Uh........OK.....?????? So why all the effort from the legislators over something that affects so few? In the last couple weeks we've had some good conversations about this new bill and the general reaction has been; "Who gives a s(*&%? Don't they have better things to do? I have to agree. I'm not for the thing or against it, I'm just disappointed our legislators can't find time to deal with issues that affect the majority of Wyoming's citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the silencer bill passed, save some ears. Criminals and poachers generally do not go through the hassle of buying an ATF registered item, can anyone name one? I would really like to see some evidence of people breaking the law while using a silencer, I bet they would lock you up for many years and it would prob be a federal crime since you are using a restricted device.
Click to expand...


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## huntingbuddy

Airborne said:


> There are around 200,000 fully auto firearms in the US, all registered with fingerprints and photos and a tax stamp, most sell for over $10,000 because of the rarity. *None of these firearms has ever been used in a crime to my knowledge.* It seems like you disagree with this law and I don't understand why, am I reading you wrong?
> 
> I am glad the silencer bill passed, save some ears. Criminals and poachers generally do not go through the hassle of buying an ATF registered item, can anyone name one? I would really like to see some evidence of people breaking the law while using a silencer, I bet they would lock you up for many years and it would prob be a federal crime since you are using a restricted device.


There has only been one crime committed with a legally registered machine gun. Coincidentally it was committed by a police officer.

*On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison.*


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## wyogoob

huntingbuddy said:


> Airborne said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are around 200,000 fully auto firearms in the US, all registered with fingerprints and photos and a tax stamp, most sell for over $10,000 because of the rarity. *None of these firearms has ever been used in a crime to my knowledge.* It seems like you disagree with this law and I don't understand why, am I reading you wrong?
> 
> I am glad the silencer bill passed, save some ears. Criminals and poachers generally do not go through the hassle of buying an ATF registered item, can anyone name one? I would really like to see some evidence of people breaking the law while using a silencer, I bet they would lock you up for many years and it would prob be a federal crime since you are using a restricted device.
> 
> 
> 
> There has only been one crime committed with a legally registered machine gun. Coincidentally it was committed by a police officer.
> 
> *On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison.*
Click to expand...

Wow, 200,000 full-autos and only one crime. That would lead me to believe that all those restrictions have worked, have helped reduce violent crime.


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## huntingbuddy

Even illegal machine guns are hardly ever used in crimes, they are just not a weapon that criminals choose a lot, handguns make up the vast majority of gun crimes.


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## Airborne

wyogoob said:


> Wow, 200,000 full-autos and only one crime. That would lead me to believe that all those restrictions have worked, have helped reduce violent crime.


I think that the lack of criminal activity regarding class 3 firearms is more due to the economic restrictions than any governmental restrictions. If these guns cost $10,000+ then it makes sense that most if not all are owned by wealthy individuals, and probably multiples of these held by collector types. Not a demographic that lends itself to violent crime.


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## wyogoob

Airborne said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 200,000 full-autos and only one crime. That would lead me to believe that all those restrictions have worked, have helped reduce violent crime.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the lack of criminal activity regarding class 3 firearms is more due to the economic restrictions than any governmental restrictions. If these guns cost $10,000+ then it makes sense that most if not all are owned by wealthy individuals, and probably multiples of these held by collector types. Not a demographic that lends itself to violent crime.
Click to expand...

From what I see, I would have to agree. But many of the bad guys are "wealthy individuals" too. One would have to think that the tough ATF background check keeps fully autos out of the hands of some of them bad guys.


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## Airborne

wyogoob said:


> Airborne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, 200,000 full-autos and only one crime. That would lead me to believe that all those restrictions have worked, have helped reduce violent crime.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the lack of criminal activity regarding class 3 firearms is more due to the economic restrictions than any governmental restrictions. If these guns cost $10,000+ then it makes sense that most if not all are owned by wealthy individuals, and probably multiples of these held by collector types. Not a demographic that lends itself to violent crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I see, I would have to agree. But many of the bad guys are "wealthy individuals" too. One would have to think that the tough ATF background check keeps fully autos out of the hands of some of them bad guys.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of those bad guys wreak havoc the white collar way, it's a shame the penalties aren't as harsh.


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## wyogoob

I'm going to the *silencer* store today. more later


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## wyogoob

So I went to my favorite local gun shop to buy one them noise-dampening thingies.

"Hi Tom, I'm lookin for a suppressor" I asked.

"A suppressor? You must be from Utah" He said, giggling.

"No, I been on Wikipedia" was my comeback........he didn't get it.

"Yeah, yeah, we got all kinds of silencers. They're over there in the new display cases." said the gunshop guy.

Wow, they had *silencer* books, *silencer* catalogs, *silencer* videos, *silencer* T-shirts, *silencer* posters, *silencers*, *silencers*, and more *silencers*. They had some suppressors too and they looked identically like *silencers.*

They had rifle *silencers**:
*

Then there was a bunch of pistol *silencers *and even some rimfire *silencers.
*

Many of the items were from *SilencerCo.
*

The gun shop is endorsed by the American *Silencer *Association: http://americansilencerassociation.com/ ;-)

.


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## Cooky

This guy does a good job threading barrels for those sound reducing thingys.

http://www.jpgrips.com/page1

10 day turnaround last time I sent him one.

If you want something that directs the sound away from you, without reducing it, try one of these:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/Levang-Linear-Compensator_p_589.html

Since it doesn't reduce the sound it doesn't fall under Class III. I've had them on .22s and ARs. Outdoors they work well, indoors not so much.

.


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## wyogoob

Cooky said:


> This guy does a good job threading barrels for those sound reducing thingys.
> 
> http://www.jpgrips.com/page1
> 
> 10 day turnaround last time I sent him one.
> 
> If you want something that directs the sound away from you, without reducing it, try one of these:
> 
> http://www.dpmsinc.com/Levang-Linear-Compensator_p_589.html
> 
> Since it doesn't reduce the sound it doesn't fall under Class III. I've had them on .22s and ARs. Outdoors they work well, indoors not so much.
> 
> .


Thanks Cooky. We have a guy in Evanston that installs all manner of sound-reducing devices he calls *silencers*. :grin:

.


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## wyogoob

Hey, those linear compensators look cool. They had them at the *silencer* store.


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## LanceS4803

For those interested-
https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...firearms-commerce-in-the-us-annual-update.pdf

Last year Wyoming had registered:
1,708 machine guns
1,490 silencers
413 short barreled rifles
383 short barreled shotguns
298 any other weapon
109,083 destructive devices

Utah had:
6,202 machine guns
9,965 silencers
2,213 short barreled rifles
1,214 short barreled shotguns
408 any other weapons
14,534 destructive devices


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## wyogoob

LanceS4803 said:


> For those interested-
> https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...firearms-commerce-in-the-us-annual-update.pdf
> 
> Last year Wyoming had registered:
> 1,708 machine guns
> 1,490 silencers
> 413 short barreled rifles
> 383 short barreled shotguns
> 298 any other weapon
> 109,083 destructive devices
> 
> Utah had:
> 6,202 machine guns
> 9,965 silencers
> 2,213 short barreled rifles
> 1,214 short barreled shotguns
> 408 any other weapons
> 14,534 destructive devices


Cool, thanks for posting and welcome to the Forum.

Hey, we kicked yer guys' butt on the destructive devices. Let me guess, some of you Utah guys are not registering your home-made bombs and nuclear devices. 

Only 1,708 machine guns in Wyoming? I think we have that many in Uinta County.

.


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## Huge29

That SilencerCo is a Salt Lake small business. I have heard that if you buy them within the state you can avoid some of the big tax involved with getting one, not sure if that is true??


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## Loke

you still need a $200 tax stamp for the transfer. and the federal background check. and patience. The last I heard they were in the 6-9 month range.


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## LanceS4803

Loke said:


> you still need a $200 tax stamp for the transfer. and the federal background check. and patience. The last I heard they were in the 6-9 month range.


 You'll still be waiting at 9 months, Loke. 12 months is the average wait now.
BATF has just started e-File, which allows you to file the forms electronically, BUT only if you are filing on behalf of a Trust, not an individual. Individuals still have to use snail mail for Forms 1 and 4.

wyoggob, Thanks for the welcome. I was in Utah a long time before my job transferred me to TN. But, I still come back to UT every year to hunt.


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## wyogoob

Hey, today I went to a gunsmith in Evanston WY to get a muzzle break put on my rifle. (Yes, I own a rifle)

This gunsmith guy grew up in Rich County Utah. He's really good. One of his specialties is installing *"suppressors" *and he corrected me for using the term *"silencers".* That makes sense seeing he's from Utah but damnit when in Rome do like.............. Anyway he had *suppressor *this and *suppressor* that, *suppressor *rates, *suppressors* in chrome moly and *suppressors* in stainless, and could get me any *suppressor* my heart desired.

I told him "thanks but no thanks I'm lookin' for a *silencer".*

So I'm thinkin' if you grew up in Utah and moved to Wyoming you should call those noise-reducing thingies *"silenpressors". *This should minimize chafing our thinner-skinned members petuies and reduce traffic on Wikipedia.

I can't thank you all enough for allowing me to *moderate* this important issue.



:grin:


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## Cooky

It's a muzzle *brake*. You had to know that was coming.


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## wyogoob

Cooky said:


> It's a muzzle *brake*. You had to know that was coming.


I love you.

:grin:


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## fishreaper

a muzzle brakes are basically anti-suppressors. (no one really cares what you call them in Texas) I've never witnessed such a noisy device. I'll take hits to the shoulders before I risk having my ears blown out through plugs and muffs.


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## longbow

Loke said:


> you still need a $200 tax stamp for the transfer. and the federal background check. and patience. The last I heard they were in the 6-9 month range.


With our family-owned m16, we have waited as little as four months for a transfer before the big silencer craze. The last time it went from me to my brother in Montana, it took nine months.


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## LanceS4803

Longbow, if you keep transferring it between family members, it would pay to put it in a Trust. Just add/delete family members, friends, etc as needed.


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## longbow

LanceS4803 said:


> Longbow, if you keep transferring it between family members, it would pay to put it in a Trust. Just add/delete family members, friends, etc as needed.


I know. In 1996, when my father died, we were going to put it in a trust but one of my brothers balked at the idea so we didn't do it. I have since convinced him to do it when he smudged a set of fingerprints and had to start over again, (I send three sets in now just in case). Plus we can add anyone we want to the trust and a trust is irrevocable for 70 years. My brother in Utah is in the process right now. Once in a trust, shipping from owner to owner is greatly simplified too.


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## LanceS4803

I should have taken my own advice as well. Just gone ahead and done the Trust long ago, and would then be able to take advantage of e-File, instead of waiting 12 months for my silencer!!


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## longbow

LanceS4803 said:


> I should have taken my own advice as well. Just gone ahead and done the Trust long ago, and would then be able to take advantage of e-File, instead of waiting 12 months for my silencer!!


Actually, right at first the e-file bogged down the system. Hopefully the mad rush is over with. Post some pictures when you get your moderator/silencer. I'd like to see a video of it in action too.


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## fishreaper

Has anyone seen the oil filter silencers/suppressors? Just screw on a new oil filter for a car or truck to the end of your barrel (that's been adapted for such things) and you're ready to roll. 



Believe it still requires the same stamps and what not though.


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## LanceS4803

Will do longbow. I think I am going to go ahead and "visit" my silencer at the dealer's shop. I'll get him to verify that my M700 threads are concentric and also my AR threads/mount are good to go.

fishreaper, you can build a silencer yourself. Even with an oil filter. Just make sure you have an approved Form 1, FIRST! The description and dimensions would sure be interesting, but nothing NFA Branch hasn't seen before.


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## Wind In His Hair

fishreaper said:


> Has anyone seen the oil filter silencers/suppressors? Just screw on a new oil filter for a car or truck to the end of your barrel (that's been adapted for such things) and you're ready to roll.
> 
> 
> 
> Believe it still requires the same stamps and what not though.


I looked into those. The problem is that to be totally legal, every time you change the oil filter you have to send it in to the manufacturer to "install" it and stamp a serial number on the new oil filter. This is straight off the manufacturer's site:



> If or when you need to change the filter out, the ATF/NFA rules says it needs to come back to the original manufacture, which Cadiz Gun Works is. The cost is $25.00. The complete Econo-Can Suppressor can be shipped directly to us, for gunsmithing, which would be replacement/rehab/repair of the oil filter, with the serial # remarked, and documented as being replaced/rehabbed/repaired. The completed Econo Can Suppressor can be sent back to you at your address on your NFA Tax Stamp Form. You do not need to go though a dealer for gunsmithing services. The life of the oil filter varies depending on caliber used and bullet type. (ex. AR15=300-500 rds)


There are a number of people selling the same type of device on Amazon and eBay labeled as "solvent traps" intended for cleaning purposes. Some of the reviews are pretty funny to read, although not very smart. :suspicious:


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## LanceS4803

If you, personally, file the Form 1, you are now the manufacturer.
As long as you don't change the serial numbered body, you can repair it yourself.
A heck of a lot of trouble for a substandard device. You've got guys starting with Hiram Maxim to today's Dr. Dater, who have advanced the internal designs. 
While it would be fun to fool around with, I would take advantage of their work. (I am going to build my own, but following the classic Enfield DeLisle rifle design.)
The wait for BATF is the same.


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## LostLouisianian

My neighbor has a machine shop and manufactures suppressors. He is licensed and sells them. Has personally trained many of the people in Utah that make and sell them. I am going to ask him what constitutes being able to use a homemade suppressor and what it has to meet to not be required to have to register it for it to still be legal.


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## LanceS4803

If you get an approved Form 1 to manufacture a silencer, you can build and use that silencer. 
The Form 1 is intended for an individual/trust to able to manufacture a silencer, destructive device (usually a grenade launcher), short barreled rifle or short barreled shotgun.
Upon approval of the Form 1, and receipt of the paperwork, you can then start your build. Not before. Start with the tube, apply the mandated markings/serial number, and from then you are legal for THAT silencer. 
It is a one item per Form 1 situation. 
Where the whole thing gets tricky for a retail purchaser is BATF's rules for silencer components. You used to be able to have spare baffles, end caps, etc. No more. 
You can't even have a replaceable wipe, without sending it back to the manufacturer.
I've done Form 1 DDs and SBRs. Working on plans for the silencer.


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