# LE Turkey vs. COVID-19



## brisket

My son drew a LE turkey tag, the hunt starts a week from Saturday. I don’t see the COVID-19 restrictions getting better before then and seeing how I’ll have to leave the county for the hunt, is this an automatic tag soup situation?
Can I just play the “we’re going to procure food” card in order to not be fined or slapped with a misdemeanor?
I don’t suppose the DWR would be up for reinstating his points if the state is shut down.


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## RandomElk16

brisket said:


> My son drew a LE turkey tag, the hunt starts a week from Saturday. I don't see the COVID-19 restrictions getting better before then and seeing how I'll have to leave the county for the hunt, is this an automatic tag soup situation?
> Can I just play the "we're going to procure food" card in order to not be fined or slapped with a misdemeanor?
> I don't suppose the DWR would be up for reinstating his points if the state is shut down.


They should have thought of this. I would call them tomorrow.

You do know you can leave the county and you CAN hunt outside of state parks right?


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## Critter

Are they planning on shutting the state down? 

I can't think of a better thing to go along with social distancing than a spring turkey hunt.


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## Vanilla

The restrictions for out of county residents are only in state parks. 

I would not think twice about going. The governor in his press conference specifically listed hunting as an activity that is still okay. 

Go, enjoy, post up pics for the rest of us poor quarantined up saps, and then share another great recipe like the bison chili I just saw!

*Edit: The governor is asking for voluntary compliance right now. There is no criminal element to his plan. Summit and Salt Lake Counties are different, but even then, I think you’d be good.


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## Critter

I believe what the government of all the states and nation is saying is pointing at the metro areas. Being out in the sticks calling in a old Tom turkey is the furthest thing from their minds when they say to shelter in place. They just want you to stay away from other people


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## BPturkeys

The Utah Gov's recommendations specifically allows hunting and fishing. Unless there is some sort of catastrophic event, the Turkey hunt will be on.
Now Washington, where I always hunt in April, already has closed fishing and there's a good chance they'll close the turkey hunt.


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## MWScott72

Go hunt! You'll be just fine under the current restrictions. Best social distancing activity by far! Just think of all the poor folks that have no penchant for outdoor activity. They will go plum crazy during this pandemic...


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## goosefreak

Go hunt!!


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## outn'bout1

I'll tell you, rural Utah is concerned about this. The metro areas are where the highest densities of COVID are so far. Having an influx of hunters from these metro areas is going to be a vector where COVID radiates into rural Utah. Not just turkey hunters either. Fisherman, shed hunters, and tourist are all vectors as the weather is warming. Several counties have publicly asked people NOT to visit. Hospital resources in rural Utah are limited and local governments are worried. Yes hunting in itself is isolating but the drive down, stopping at gas stations, running into Walmart, getting shells at the local outdoor store, and many other stops and interactions that occur along the way are the problem. Please stay home or hunt local where you don't need to stop for gas, shells, food, or to take a dump.


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## Vanilla

I think rural Utah ought to be concerned about this. But wasn’t it leaders of rural Utah that reached out to Gov Herbert recently and asked him to lift all restrictions and recommendations?


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## backcountry

Yes, our commissioners sadly wrote that ill conceived letter that could age very poorly. Sometimes our elected officials don't live up to the leadership and vision we need. 

Please consider not hunting in Southern Utah until this has passed. Iron and Washington Co. (and surrounding ones) could do poorly if we have asymptomatic individuals seed the disease more in our area.

*Perfectly legal activity under current state and local health declarations but I wish DWR was tackling this head on and helping to mitigate the spread by providing an amenable compromise.


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## maverick9465

I say go find some BLM or Forest Service land and go chase birds. Like others have said, turkey hunting is the epitome of social distancing these day (for us and hopefully not the gobblers!). You may just have to forego the daily gas station donuts though.


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## MWScott72

maverick9465 said:


> I say go find some BLM or Forest Service land and go chase birds. Like others have said, turkey hunting is the epitome of social distancing these day (for us and hopefully not the gobblers!). You may just have to forego the daily gas station donuts though.


This!!! Just be smart about your actions and be considerate of others. COVID-19 doesn't have to mean the end of the world as we know it! Hey...that's a great song too! &#128578;


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## High Desert Elk

outn'bout1 said:


> I'll tell you, rural Utah is concerned about this. The metro areas are where the highest densities of COVID are so far. Having an influx of hunters from these metro areas is going to be a vector where COVID radiates into rural Utah. Not just turkey hunters either. Fisherman, shed hunters, and tourist are all vectors as the weather is warming. Several counties have publicly asked people NOT to visit. Hospital resources in rural Utah are limited and local governments are worried. Yes hunting in itself is isolating but the drive down, stopping at gas stations, running into Walmart, getting shells at the local outdoor store, and many other stops and interactions that occur along the way are the problem. Please stay home or hunt local where you don't need to stop for gas, shells, food, or to take a dump.


Use a barrier of some sort between you and the handle on the gas pump. Fountain drinks are a habit, not a necessity. Store employees in grocery stores are supposed to wear gloves when stocking shelves. Bring drinks and food previously purchased and decontaminated (if you think it's necessary) before you leave so you don't have to get gas station groceries.

Honestly, if you practice a little common sense, you don't have much to worry about. Same goes to locals living in rural areas, which cannot afford too much loss in local revenues.

Just looked at an update via the game and fish website in my state. 281 positive cases, 12,246 negative cases, and 4 deaths (all over the age of 70 with underlying health issues) as of 3/30/20. Currently there are about 22 cases in the hospital and 26 reported as recovered. Makes me wonder about the remaining positives as to the severity of their symptoms...


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## brisket

tldr; You guys are right, I need to do this hunt. I'll take all the supplies I need to reduce my impact where I go.

I'm a liberty-loving individual. It feels like everyday more of our liberty is being taken away and that gets me down. Any dissenting views of the draconian lock downs are flamed and shunned. I can't stomach the UWN Corona Virus thread anymore.

https://www.starwars.com/video/so-this-is-how-liberty-dies

Maybe I read it wrong, but isn't it currently a misdemeanor to not shelter in place in SL County? An internet technician was at my house today, he said he's been issued a card that allows him to travel in SL County as it is a business that has been deemed "essential". Papers, please? It just seems like things will get worse before they get better and it wouldn't surprise me to see a state-wide lock-down in the next couple of weeks. If that's the case, maybe hunting will be closed too.

Honestly, I think I may be going a little nuts. I've been at home for close to 3 weeks, haven't left the house much other than to go on walks, a trip to the hardware store (needed parts for the new bidet) and to IFA for vegetable seeds (stores are low on food, might as well grow my own). I just don't have anywhere I need to go, really. Fortunately I can work from home (and grateful to still have a job, although I'm bracing for round 2 of layoffs), but it is a bit crazy with the kids here all the time. It really takes a toll on someone being confined like that.
That said, I could use some time in the woods chasing old Tom. I'd love for my son to get his first turkey this year.


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## Packout

I think you are on the right track with the hunt. And I agree with your take on the overall situation. Some people's attitude scares me more than the virus, especially the shaming.


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## taxidermist

Kind of off subject, but not really. We have been asked to do the social distancing to slow "flatten" the curve of contracting, spreading the virus.


China didn't do this as quick as the US did. They for the most part are seeing NEW cases almost at zero. This has been for three months. Now, because the US reacted quickly, and have limited public activity I see this will be extended an additional three months longer than China. 


Take the Kids out and have a great hunt!!


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## Critter

taxidermist said:


> China didn't do this as quick as the US did. They for the most part are seeing NEW cases almost at zero. This has been for three months. Now, because the US reacted quickly, and have limited public activity I see this will be extended an additional three months longer than China.
> 
> Take the Kids out and have a great hunt!!


At this time I don't believe that I would a thing that is coming out of China.

But I do agree to take the kids out and have a great time.

Here are North Korea's numbers:


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## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> At this time I don't believe that I would a thing that is coming out of China.
> 
> But I do agree to take the kids out and have a great time.
> 
> Here are North Korea's numbers:


Can't see it


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## Critter

I can.....

What it is is a timetable for North Korea's reporting:

08:00=1

08:10=0

09:23=1

09:30=0

11:58=1

12:04=0

16:13=1

16:17=0


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## outn'bout1

FROM EMERY COUNTY:

STAY HOME! March 31, 2020: STAY HOME! While we would normally welcome visitors to enjoy the beauty of Emery County, we really don’t want visitors during the COVID-19 pandemic. We ask that all follow Utah Governor Gary Herbert’s “STAY SAFE, STAY HOME” Directive. As of today, there are no confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Emery County, and we want it to stay that way.

While residents of Emery County are welcome to enjoy the great outdoors within Emery County, if you don’t live here, please don’t come here. Our number one concern is for the safety and well-being of our citizens and you.

A Public Health Order went into effect on March 17, 2020, which includes Emery County. The Order prohibits camping on public or private lands, except for Essential Visitors (work-related) and Primary Residents. Our Dispatch Center has had numerous calls from people who do not live here wanting to come for a day trip or for overnight camping. Again, we ask that you do not go against the Governor’s Directive, including non-essential travel.

Again, please follow Governor Herbert’s Directive “STAY SAFE, STAY HOME” until the pandemic ends. Once it is over, we would love to have you visit Emery County. PLEASE SHARE

OTHER RURAL COUNTIES ARE ALSO ASKING THE SAME THING. STAY HOME!!


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## outn'bout1

Due to the current situation, Summit, San Juan, Juab, Grand, Carbon, and Emery Counties are asking folks to not visit their counties for the time being. We will try to keep you updated on which counties do, and do not, want visitors! Juab County specifically cited an intense strain on their police and EMS services.

JUST STAY HOME.


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## brisket

outn'bout1 said:


> Due to the current situation, Summit, San Juan, Juab, Grand, Carbon, and Emery Counties are asking folks to not visit their counties for the time being. We will try to keep you updated on which counties do, and do not, want visitors! Juab County specifically cited an intense strain on their police and EMS services.
> 
> JUST STAY HOME.


This is the kind of ridiculousness I'm taking about. I have a few choice words I'd like to say to these counties, but alas I will refrain. A word to the counties putting in these restrictions: be careful what you ask for. Your residents will likely need the hospitals of urban Utah. You might want to be nice to others and keep your borders open. Borders can be used to keep people in as well.


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## brisket

One of the most disturbing things about this situation is it is turning everyone against each other. You go to the store and everyone looks at you like you have the plague.

I called the DWR with some questions regarding the county restrictions. They didn’t have any answers, but have a large list of people that have called about the same thing. They said they’ll call me back when they have more info.


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## backcountry

brisket said:


> outn'bout1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Due to the current situation, Summit, San Juan, Juab, Grand, Carbon, and Emery Counties are asking folks to not visit their counties for the time being. We will try to keep you updated on which counties do, and do not, want visitors! Juab County specifically cited an intense strain on their police and EMS services.
> 
> JUST STAY HOME.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the kind of ridiculousness I'm taking about. I have a few choice words I'd like to say to these counties, but alas I will refrain. A word to the counties putting in these restrictions: be careful what you ask for. Your residents will likely need the hospitals of urban Utah. You might want to be nice to others and keep your borders open. Borders can be used to keep people in as well.
Click to expand...

Are you equating medical need of patients with severe outcomes with the inconvenience of being asked not to camp and hunt? That's dangerous logic. There is a fundamental difference between taking unusually heightened measures to slow the spread of a hideous disease versus rhetorically talking about closing medical facilities to out of county patients.

It sucks for anyone with tags and I'm shocked at how little guidance DWR is providing. They have a role to play in this pandemic and are being absent. It's an unfortunate decision for citizens to have to make on their own with no refund, or other incentive, to encourage people to stay home in their own counties.



brisket said:


> One of the most disturbing things about this situation is it is turning everyone against each other. You go to the store and everyone looks at you like you have the plague.
> 
> I called the DWR with some questions regarding the county restrictions. They didn't have any answers, but have a large list of people that have called about the same thing. They said they'll call me back when they have more info.


Your previous post is the most emblematic of that type of behavior. There was zero benefit to what you wrote.

I sure hope wisdom and compassion prevails and not the inhumanity of your previous response.


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## brisket

backcountry said:


> brisket said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> outn'bout1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Due to the current situation, Summit, San Juan, Juab, Grand, Carbon, and Emery Counties are asking folks to not visit their counties for the time being. We will try to keep you updated on which counties do, and do not, want visitors! Juab County specifically cited an intense strain on their police and EMS services.
> 
> JUST STAY HOME.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the kind of ridiculousness I'm taking about. I have a few choice words I'd like to say to these counties, but alas I will refrain. A word to the counties putting in these restrictions: be careful what you ask for. Your residents will likely need the hospitals of urban Utah. You might want to be nice to others and keep your borders open. Borders can be used to keep people in as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you equating medical need of patients with severe outcomes with the inconvenience of being asked not to camp and hunt? That's dangerous logic. There is a fundamental difference between taking unusually heightened measures to slow the spread of a hideous disease versus rhetorically talking about closing medical facilities to out of county patients.
> 
> It sucks for anyone with tags and I'm shocked at how little guidance DWR is providing. They have a role to play in this pandemic and are being absent. It's an unfortunate decision for citizens to have to make on their own with no refund, or other incentive, to encourage people to stay home in their own counties.
> 
> I sure hope wisdom and compassion prevails and not the inhumanity of your response.
Click to expand...

And this is why I can't stomach the Corona Virus thread anymore.


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## backcountry

brisket said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brisket said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> outn'bout1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Due to the current situation, Summit, San Juan, Juab, Grand, Carbon, and Emery Counties are asking folks to not visit their counties for the time being. We will try to keep you updated on which counties do, and do not, want visitors! Juab County specifically cited an intense strain on their police and EMS services.
> 
> JUST STAY HOME.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the kind of ridiculousness I'm taking about. I have a few choice words I'd like to say to these counties, but alas I will refrain. A word to the counties putting in these restrictions: be careful what you ask for. Your residents will likely need the hospitals of urban Utah. You might want to be nice to others and keep your borders open. Borders can be used to keep people in as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you equating medical need of patients with severe outcomes with the inconvenience of being asked not to camp and hunt? That's dangerous logic. There is a fundamental difference between taking unusually heightened measures to slow the spread of a hideous disease versus rhetorically talking about closing medical facilities to out of county patients.
> 
> It sucks for anyone with tags and I'm shocked at how little guidance DWR is providing. They have a role to play in this pandemic and are being absent. It's an unfortunate decision for citizens to have to make on their own with no refund, or other incentive, to encourage people to stay home in their own counties.
> 
> I sure hope wisdom and compassion prevails and not the inhumanity of your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And this is why I can't stomach the Corona Virus thread anymore.
Click to expand...

What you previously wrote is ten times worse than anything in that thread. You rhetorically offered up weaponizing access to medical care in retaliation for counties trying to protect their citizens from a global pandemic.

Sorry to hear you have such a weak stomach. Might behoove you too avoid such spicy comments if you are going to complain about the heartburn.


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## Vanilla

It’s a difficult situation. I understand the concerns on all ends. For some people being told they can’t go enjoy exactly what they love and gives them purpose isn’t exactly a “minor inconvenience.” We all look at issues through our own lenses, but intolerance for either side doesn’t do anyone any good. 

If I had a tag, I’d be going hunting. But that’s just me. Anyone that wants can judge away! I’m comfortable enough with decision I wouldn’t be looking for approval. Anyone in the county I would be going to is welcome to come shop or stay at the hospital in my county, which they’re already doing. 

Brisket- About the dirty looks at the store, people are definitely on edge. I’ve been being overly nice to everyone. Saying hi. Letting people go in front of me. Just trying to bring good cheer. Not everyone has responded in kind, but enough are that I’ll keep doing it. It may be something small, but it’s something I can do.


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## outn'bout1

I'm sorry to have touched off such an emotional response from one of the readers. It isn't rural UT against Urban UT. We are all in this together, we are all neighbors. It affects all of us. If you throw out everything else and use fact and logic, the absolute best way to prevent spread of infectious disease is to minimize contact with the vectors, humans in this case. That's just the way it is. If it blows up in rural Utah then in turn rural Utahn's quite possibly will be needing to travel to urban Utah for health services and/or health care workers from urban Utah will be needed in in rural areas then take COVID back home to urban areas. It's a positive feedback cycle. Anywhere it blows up we ALL suffer and we ALL benefit from keeping some areas having none to fewer cases. 

I also believe that rural Utahn's should STAY HOME too, this applies to everyone. I work for a national program and we have employees and their families gravely ill. For some people this is life and death. My friends kids have a genetic respiratory disease and it literally is life and death for 4 of their kids if they get it, it is a probable death sentence. Is what I need or want to do really that much more important than potentially becoming ill myself and/or being a vector for a infectious disease that we have very little knowledge about and is killing people. Emotion aside, no. The best way to stop the spread is stay home as much as possible right now.

Back to the original topic of the turkey hunt I am very disappointed that the UDWR hasn't addressed the issue.


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## backcountry

I'll stick by my first plea in regards to the hunting. It's a voluntary issue at this point, in S. Utah, but lives literally hang in the balance of how fellow citizens choose to restrict themselves. And despite what we think, most of us just simply aren't that great at preventing the spread of respiratory viruses, hence the best being to stay at home.

My pushback against Brisket was his ridiculous attempt to equate counties trying to prevent transmission with a retaliation to shutout patients from needed care. That's a heartless, inhumane thing to write about even hypothetically. And I could care less if pushing back on that upsets his "stomach". The internet has never been a friendly place for such comments. We all get heat and flak and you learn to take it when saying controversial things.

And I agree, DWRs failure to confront the issue at this point is an absolute failure in leadership. It's obscene that they haven't communicated with the public yet.

Sincerely,

Another Liberty Loving American


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## brisket

Whoa, that escalated quickly.



backcountry said:


> You rhetorically offered up weaponizing access to medical care...


 I said nothing of the sort and I apologize if you took it that way, that wasn't my intent. I certainly don't advocate keeping people from medical care and pray that doesn't happen. My point was that we need to work together to get through this crisis. Government lock-downs are not the answer to this pandemic in my opinion, there is another option, it's called liberty.

If I take my own food and fuel, don't stop at any rural towns and head straight for the hills to camp and hunt. How will that adversely affect anyone?

Normally I enjoy patronizing small town businesses, in fact I go out of my way to eat at restaurants, shop at the grocer, buy gas and treats, rent from local AirBnb's, etc. I'm certainly willing to give that up this spring and just drive through. I'm just not seeing the problem.


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## Vanilla

I agree 100% that we as citizens owe it to each other to do our level best to avoid activities that could cause the spread of this virus, even though it’s inconvenient. Heck, the last 3 weeks of my life reflect that. 

Where I disagree is that going turkey hunting with your kid is one of those activities that are a risk to spread the virus. I also don’t buy the “you might overwhelm the medical system there if you get hurt.” If you’re going to the ER in Emery County, you’re going to another county for medical services anyway. And eventually you’re shipped up to the Wasatch Front into one of OUR beds, regardless of where your address is. You’re welcome, rural Utah. We’re glad to take care of you if the need arises. We won’t check your zip code first. 

Like I said, I’d go hunting. The risks being talked about here just simply aren’t realistically there. Again, I agree we all need to be careful and be good citizens right now. But everyone needs to be reasonable as well. The activity being talked about right now was a SPECIFIC activity the governor listed as “still okay” in his message to “Stay Safe, Stay Home.” I watched it live. With as careful as the advice/directives/orders have been in Utah, to specifically say going hunting is still okay, we ought to pump the brakes on the guilt trips. 

Just my opinion.


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## brisket

backcountry said:


> I'll stick by my first plea in regards to the hunting. It's a voluntary issue at this point


I guess we have different definitions of voluntary. The county sheriffs of the above mentioned counties are planning to enforce the no out of county camping order with fines. It's now a misdemeanor for me to leave my house for what the government deems as "unnecessary". Voluntary? Yeah, right.



backcountry said:


> but lives literally hang in the balance of how fellow citizens choose to restrict themselves. And despite what we think, most of us just simply aren't that great at preventing the spread of respiratory viruses, hence the best being to stay at home.


I get it, you are freaked out about this virus. You have a high-risk member of your household, I completely support you sheltering in place. Do it! That's your right, go hide from the world, I'm sure you'll be just fine. My only request is to let others live if they want to live. Let businesses run if they want to run. I think we'd see some tremendous innovation if it weren't illegal for them to run right now as many have been deemed "unnecessary". Those businesses certainly are necessary for the owner and the employees, no? Why can't a business say for example you can come in if you meet the following rules:


You must wear a face mask
Wash your hands thoroughly
If you are running a fever or symptomatic you will not be allowed in
I certainly would feel more comfortable going to a grocery store or other business now if those were the rules. But let the business make up the rules, if a patron doesn't like them, he doesn't have to visit that business, he can go somewhere else. Let the market work. The businesses doing it right with the most protections will thrive. Just don't advocate for a total lock-down where a bureaucrat decides what is necessary or not.



backcountry said:


> My pushback against Brisket was his ridiculous attempt to equate counties trying to prevent transmission with a retaliation to shutout patients from needed care. That's a heartless, inhumane thing to write about even hypothetically.


The lock-downs you advocate for has resulted in the following among others:


Domestic Violence is on the rise
Child abuse is on the rise
Suicide rates are on the rise
Divorce rates on the rise
Mass unemployment. Over 3 million people filed for unemployment last week. I personally know 17 people that have lost jobs in the past 2 weeks. I'm willing to bet the numbers this week will be even worse.
I'm sorry, but this is "heartless", "inhumane" and _is_ happening *right now* because of these government lock-downs that you are advocating for.



backcountry said:


> Sincerely,
> 
> Another Liberty Loving American


I guess we have a different definition of liberty too. Hint, it doesn't mean governments lock-downs, or making it illegal to leave your house, or run your business. These are draconian measures of force and coercion. There is no liberty in this.


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## backcountry

brisket said:


> A word to the counties putting in these restrictions: be careful what you ask for. Your residents will likely need the hospitals of urban Utah. You might want to be nice to others and keep your borders open. Borders can be used to keep people in as well.


You did more then insinuate. You linked the medical needs of rural Utahns with being locked in and away from the hospitals in urban Utah. There was zero need or logic behind that comment.

And that warning came after some random comment about "papers please" which isn't remotely the situation in the US right now.

You get to decide if you come to S. Utah, that is your liberty. You aren't denied that right now. But liberty comes with immense responsibility and right now that includes possibly carrying a disease asymptomatically. Our federal, state and local governments are asking us to STAY HOME to avoid passing on that disease. Asking, not telling. They are putting the responsibility in our hands as you prefer.

So do you stay home and not spread the disease or do you head to an area with fewer cases and risk spreading the disease when we know, as you stated obliquely, we have fewer resources to combat it?

Ultimately you get to make the decision and live with it. But you'll never know if you did not infect a person down here unless you stay home and in your own county.

PS...I've listed the context of southern Utah multiple times as Southwest Utah and hence the voluntary comment. Most counties in S. Utah do not have bans. Period.


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## brisket

Oh...and someone needs a good splash from a bidet. You're welcome to use mine, if you don't mind traveling to a different county. Minha casa é sua casa.

johnnycake, you changed my world. #BidetForLife #NotAPeasantAnymore


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## backcountry

brisket said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll stick by my first plea in regards to the hunting. It's a voluntary issue at this point
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we have different definitions of voluntary. The county sheriffs of the above mentioned counties are planning to enforce the no out of county camping order with fines. It's now a misdemeanor for me to leave my house for what the government deems as "unnecessary". Voluntary? Yeah, right.
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> but lives literally hang in the balance of how fellow citizens choose to restrict themselves. And despite what we think, most of us just simply aren't that great at preventing the spread of respiratory viruses, hence the best being to stay at home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I get it, you are freaked out about this virus. You have a high-risk member of your household, I completely support you sheltering in place. Do it! That's your right, go hide from the world, I'm sure you'll be just fine. My only request is to let others live if they want to live. Let businesses run if they want to run. I think we'd see some tremendous innovation if it weren't illegal for them to run right now as many have been deemed "unnecessary". Those businesses certainly are necessary for the owner and the employees, no? Why can't a business say for example you can come in if you meet the following rules:
> 
> 
> You must wear a face mask
> Wash your hands thoroughly
> If you are running a fever or symptomatic you will not be allowed in
> I certainly would feel more comfortable going to a grocery store or other business now if those were the rules. But let the business make up the rules, if a patron doesn't like them, he doesn't have to visit that business, he can go somewhere else. Let the market work. The businesses doing it right with the most protections will thrive. Just don't advocate for a total lock-down where a bureaucrat decides what is necessary or not.
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> My pushback against Brisket was his ridiculous attempt to equate counties trying to prevent transmission with a retaliation to shutout patients from needed care. That's a heartless, inhumane thing to write about even hypothetically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lock-downs you advocate for has resulted in the following among others:
> 
> 
> Domestic Violence is on the rise
> Child abuse is on the rise
> Suicide rates are on the rise
> Divorce rates on the rise
> Mass unemployment. Over 3 million people filed for unemployment last week. I personally know 17 people that have lost jobs in the past 2 weeks. I'm willing to bet the numbers this week will be even worse.
> I'm sorry, but this is "heartless", "inhumane" and _is_ happening *right now* because of these government lock-downs that you are advocating for.
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Another Liberty Loving American
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess we have a different definition of liberty too. Hint, it doesn't mean governments lock-downs, or making it illegal to leave your house, or run your business. These are draconian measures of force and coercion. There is no liberty in this.
Click to expand...

Can you show me where I've advocated for lockdowns? Please, show me. I've critiqued draconian measures. I've expressed gratitude for living in Utah multiple times as it's a state were we largely get to grapple with the consequences of our actions with comparatively less oversight during this time. This BS you, and one of the elks, keep making is an utter fabrication. My most common refrain is I don't know the best answer for government action.

But staying home as citizens works. It inherently limits spread and keeps asymptomatic people from seeding it elsewhere.

Your other responses are not relevant to your decision to hunt in Southern Utah. I've shown immense sympathy for such outcomes of the current pandemic multiple times and consistently called for our government and communities to deal with all of them compassionately.

You have the liberty to decide to leave your home in Utah's principal hotspot, ie the North, and travel to the South where we have fewer cases and overwhelmingly open for camping and hunting. My response isn't about my household, as to put it bluntly she won't allow the medical intervention needed to survive. She dies if she gets it, plain and simple. You won't run into her. My statements are about trying to protect my community at large through social pressure which is the primary means we have in voluntary systems like right now. But your response is telling.

Currently no one in my part of Southern Utah is stopping you. No one. And as Vanilla highlighted, and so have I, hunting like this is deemed essential in the governor's loose request.

So don't confuse pushback online with anything that limits your choices. You have immense liberty compared to large swaths of the world right now and I assume you are capable of coping with online criticism if you think you can handle the reigns of liberty. If not than maybe posting BS on the internet isn't your best option.

*I'm not sure someone pushing "papers please" conspiracies is the one to talk about the need for a bidet. Pretty peasant like to steal someone else's joke as well.


----------



## Packout

Last week I was at the Provo Sam's Club picking up some necessary items. In the store were people from Juab County and Millard County. You guys telling people not to drive down and hunt public lands do realize that citizens from your rural counties are visiting the urban counties? Right? 

Should people act with prudence? Yes! But your guilt trips and shaming of people who are FOLLOWING THE LAWS AND GOVERNMENT DIRECTIVES is what is wrong with this world. So stop with the condescending BS and stop shaming others. 

If someone from Iron or Carbon or Juab or Millard or Emery or San Juan County gets sick and there is not a bed for them in their immediate county then they will be transferred to an available bed in an urban area. And if there is not a bed in either place then everyone is in the same boat.

Stop with the shame. Stop with the threats. Stop with the condescension. Stop with the NIMBY BS. Stop acting like your opinion is the only one. The fear mongering is worse than the virus. Do our part. Do what is asked of us. The Governor never told people to Shame one another for lawful, accepted and even recommended activities.

PS- It is not the UDWR's job to give Covid 19 directives or cancellations. That directive comes from the Governor who stated explicitly that HUNTING was ok.


----------



## backcountry

Packout said:


> Last week I was at the Provo Sam's Club picking up some necessary items. In the store were people from Juab County and Millard County. You guys telling people not to drive down and hunt public lands do realize that citizens from your rural counties are visiting the urban counties? Right?
> 
> Should people act with prudence? Yes! But your guilt trips and shaming of people who are FOLLOWING THE LAWS AND GOVERNMENT DIRECTIVES is what is wrong with this world. So stop with the condescending BS and stop shaming others.
> 
> If someone from Iron or Carbon or Juab or Millard or Emery or San Juan County gets sick and there is not a bed for them in their immediate county then they will be transferred to an available bed in an urban area. And if there is not a bed in either place then everyone is in the same boat.
> 
> Stop with the shame. Stop with the threats. Stop with the condescension. Stop with the NIMBY BS. Stop acting like your opinion is the only one. The fear mongering is worse than the virus. Do our part. Do what is asked of us. The Governor never told people to Shame one another for lawful, accepted and even recommended activities.
> 
> PS- It is not the UDWR's job to give Covid 19 directives or cancellations. That directive comes from the Governor who stated explicitly that HUNTING was ok.


Who is threatening anyone?

DWR most definitely has the authority to offer refunds and adapt to a global pandemic.

There are multiple views here and no one is stopped from sharing them. You'll notice it remained tactful until Brisket volunteered up complete BS about papers please and the potential tit-for-tat of locking fellow citizens into their own counties away from medical care. It's not even clear that Brisket understands the law as no county or city is preventing them from leaving to hunt, as that's consistently been defined as "essential".

I will continue to plea for people to not to come down here and to STAY HOME. Call it NIMBY, call it whatever you want. But pleading for people to STAY HOME is definitely not worse than a disease that slowly deprives the body of oxygen and basically drowns people in their own mucus.

Welcome to liberty, in which people disagree on the internet and plea with others to not travel during a global pandemic. Liberty doesn't mean you get to be free of guilt or a comfortable place to share ridiculous ideas like "papers please". Especially when the OP was the one to derail the conversation. Brisket is not a victim here.


----------



## outn'bout1

Wow this got pretty tribal. I hope all our families stay safe. If you listened to the President last night the next couple weeks might be tough. Hoping the best of health no matter where you are in the Country. This is a good time to reflect, think of others, focus on our homes, and serve others where you can. Take care.


----------



## BPturkeys

outn'bout1 said:


> Wow this got pretty tribal. I hope all our families stay safe. If you listened to the President last night the next couple weeks might be tough. Hoping the best of health no matter where you are in the Country. This is a good time to reflect, think of others, focus on our homes, and serve others where you can. Take care.


Maybe us urban people, that are for the most part paying the bills for you folks that live in rural counties, should insist we stop sending you any more of our tax money until we are allowed to come visit "your county" and hunt "your" animals" and camp on "your public ground"...no outn'bout1, it is the rural people that are tribal, you are the ones passing the rules keeping us out. Rural people have for the most part always disliked us urbans and have always felt we are outside intruders. NO??


----------



## backcountry

BPturkeys said:


> outn'bout1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow this got pretty tribal. I hope all our families stay safe. If you listened to the President last night the next couple weeks might be tough. Hoping the best of health no matter where you are in the Country. This is a good time to reflect, think of others, focus on our homes, and serve others where you can. Take care.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe us urban people, that are for the most part paying the bills for you folks that live in rural counties, should insist we stop sending you any more of our tax money until we are allowed to come visit "your county" and hunt "your" animals" and camp on "your public ground"...no outn'bout1, it is the rural people that are tribal, you are the ones passing the rules keeping us out. Rural people have for the most part always disliked us urbans and have always felt we are outside intruders. NO??
Click to expand...

Outn'bout1 seems to be about as kind as they come. I see you no animosity from them.

A couple hunters keep escalating this rhetorically to a tit-for-tat retaliation between counties. That is unnecessary and dangerous logic in response to counties trying to protect their citizens with temporary closures or appeals to not travel.

We are in unusual times and cities and counties are trying to stop the spread of a disease. The only relevance to urban is that they are currently hotspots and could seed the disease to other areas more. That is the only reason we are asking people to not travel to Southern Utah, because of a once in a lifetime disease that leads to a miserable death for certain citizens. A month or two of inconvenience is what we are being asked to accommodate.


----------



## Vanilla

backcountry said:


> DWR most definitely has the authority to offer refunds and adapt to a global pandemic.


I actually don't think they do have authority for this. The DWR is a state agency with no inherent authority of its own. The only authority the DWR possesses is given to it via legislation or administrative rule.

I'm unaware of any law or rule that gives the DWR this authority. Have I missed that one? Happy to look at it and change my mind if it's there somewhere.


----------



## willfish4food

backcountry said:


> And I agree, DWRs failure to confront the issue at this point is an absolute failure in leadership. It's obscene that they haven't communicated with the public yet.


If they haven't said anything on the matter then the status quo is in effect, it doesn't mean they're not addressing the issue. The DWR not specifically stating that the hunts are still on is akin to my boss not calling me every day to tell me it's still okay to telework. If I don't hear otherwise I'm going to assume nothing has changed.

Just because the DWR is not taking your preferred course of action does not mean they are failing to confront the issue nor is it a failure in leadership. The Governor said hunting and fishing are okay and the DWR is consistent with that directive.


----------



## Vanilla

willfish4food said:


> If they haven't said anything on the matter then the status quo is in effect, it doesn't mean they're not addressing the issue. The DWR not specifically stating that the hunts are still on is akin to my boss not calling me every day to tell me it's still okay to telework. If I don't hear otherwise I'm going to assume nothing has changed.
> 
> Just because the DWR is not taking your preferred course of action does not mean they are failing to confront the issue nor is it a failure in leadership. The Governor said hunting and fishing are okay and the DWR is consistent with that directive.


Well said. And I think this is a point backcountry is missing in his passion on this issue. Bit everyone agrees with his assessment of the risk of the activity. That's okay. It doesn't make someone inhumane, uneducated, inconsiderate, or anything else because they don't agree with his assessment of risk when it comes to going hunting. It just means they don't agree.

Maybe he is correct, maybe he isn't. But just because people don't do things exactly as we think they should, that doesn't mean there has been a failure.

I'll reiterate a call I've made on this forum for weeks: reasonableness, not fear needs to guide our collective and individual decision making. Going out to the woods by myself or with my child does not put any single person or groups of people at risk of being infected any more than if I sit at my house. There is basically a zero sum difference in risk on those two activities.


----------



## Packout

backcountry said:


> Who is threatening anyone?
> 
> DWR most definitely has the authority to offer refunds and adapt to a global pandemic.
> 
> There are multiple views here and no one is stopped from sharing them. You'll notice it remained tactful until Brisket volunteered up complete BS about papers please and the potential tit-for-tat of locking fellow citizens into their own counties away from medical care. It's not even clear that Brisket understands the law as no county or city is preventing them from leaving to hunt, as that's consistently been defined as "essential".
> 
> I will continue to plea for people to not to come down here and to STAY HOME. Call it NIMBY, call it whatever you want. But pleading for people to STAY HOME is definitely not worse than a disease that slowly deprives the body of oxygen and basically drowns people in their own mucus.
> 
> Welcome to liberty, in which people disagree on the internet and plea with others to not travel during a global pandemic. Liberty doesn't mean you get to be free of guilt or a comfortable place to share ridiculous ideas like "papers please". Especially when the OP was the one to derail the conversation. Brisket is not a victim here.


Backcountry- You are so wrapped up in yourself that you can't see beyond the mirror you look into. You shame people for doing what the Governor has said is ok. I never said people don't have the right to shame and be condescending toward people engaged in legal/accepted activities, I just said they shouldn't. As for the "threaten" comment- maybe that wasn't directed toward you. As usual, you take everything as a reflection on yourself, not seeing past your mirror.

As for the UDWR- they have an appointed Director who reports to the Governor's office. When the Governor says people should go hunt and fish then there is no way for the UDWR " to offer refunds and adapt to a global pandemic". That decision comes from the Governor's office. Period. We can't have an entity in State Government saying the opposite of the Governor.

I never said Brisket was the victim. In fact, maybe some of what I wrote was to him. Your mirror attitude doesn't allow you to see that though.....


----------



## willfish4food

Packout said:


> Last week I was at the Provo Sam's Club picking up some necessary items. In the store were people from Juab County and Millard County. You guys telling people not to drive down and hunt public lands do realize that citizens from your rural counties are visiting the urban counties? Right?


^^^ This right here sums it up.

It's such a knee jerk reaction to try to ban people from traveling to rural areas to do something that will have a very low probability of spreading the virus, but then not do anything to try to limit travel to urban areas to do activities that have a comparatively high probability of bringing the virus back.

Think about it this way, 2,800 Salt Lake county residents go camping in a rural area. Statistically one of those people is infected (396 documented cases in SL County with a population of 1.136 million). How much contact will they have with people in that county? Maybe a few interactions on the way in and on the way out if they don't take extra precautions. Now think about someone going into an urban area and having contact with the virus then going back to live in the rural county. Who is a greater risk of spreading the virus?

If you're going to make an effort to limit those coming in, you should at least make an effort to limit those going out. Probably should make a greater effort.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> DWR most definitely has the authority to offer refunds and adapt to a global pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually don't think they do have authority for this. The DWR is a state agency with no inherent authority of its own. The only authority the DWR possesses is given to it via legislation or administrative rule.
> 
> I'm unaware of any law or rule that gives the DWR this authority. Have I missed that one? Happy to look at it and change my mind if it's there somewhere.
Click to expand...

They seem to think they might, but are currently hedging. They can definitely refund if they cancel a hunt. They didn't cancel group events on their calendar until late last week.



> Keep in mind
> As you plan to hunt, fish and get outdoors this spring, here are a few things to keep in mind:
> 
> Check with the county to see about any directives or restrictions specific to the area.
> Refunds will not be given for 365-day fishing and hunting licenses.
> Any requests for hunting permit refunds will be logged, and we will make decisions on a case-by-case basis at a later date, depending on how the COVID-19 situation develops. Call your local DWR office to make these requests and for assistance with any further questions.
> Find up-to-date information on Utah's coronavirus website.


The post is undated but it's clear they understand the potential risk but haven't been as proactive in deciding on their course of action.

Fact is they could have communicated with every hunter and fisherman by now directly via email. Just about every organization I know has done that already. They could have already set and published the date for an emergency hearing by their board; they have obviously known the Turkey hunt was going to coincide with spread and likely our state's peak for a while now.

So yes, like other criticisms, I find their hedged response subpar, to put it kindly. That's not about a specific outcome other than their failure to lead clearly in this time, even if they choose to stay the course. Transparency is key right now and a subpage on a website isn't enough.

To your other comment....please don't take the "inhumane" comment to Brisket out of context. It was specifically to his hideous hypothetical about locking people into counties and away from the medical care they need, as he acknowledged in that same paragraph. Nothing in the post of his I responded to had anything to do about hunting anymore, hence calling out his derailment.

I refer back to the Plea to not hunt or camp in Southern Utah. Wether we like it or not, staying home is the best way to stop this thing and it's the only way we know we didn't spread the disease to a new area. That's true wether or not Herbert believes hunting is essential.


----------



## backcountry

Packout said:


> As for the "threaten" comment- maybe that wasn't directed toward you. As usual, you take everything as a reflection on yourself, not seeing past your mirror.
> 
> As for the UDWR- they have an appointed Director who reports to the Governor's office. When the Governor says people should go hunt and fish then there is no way for the UDWR " to offer refunds and adapt to a global pandemic". That decision comes from the Governor's office. Period. We can't have an entity in State Government saying the opposite of the Governor.
> 
> I never said Brisket was the victim. In fact, maybe some of what I wrote was to him. Your mirror attitude doesn't allow you to see that though.....


That's some straight up bull crap right there. I am fully aware posts are messages to more than one person. Responding to them doesn't change that. Maybe you suffer from a mirror attitude as well? Are you the pot or kettle?

I never said the threaten comment was about me. I said "who is threatening anyone?". That's a broad question that passively highlights that no one has threatened anyone. I haven't seen anyone threaten anyone on any thread regarding Covid-19 on this site and it was an odd statement on your part.

You oversimplify the DWR and state relation. The DWR very much had a say in the state decree and I would wager it was there recommendation not Herbert's, but that is just a guess like yours about who set the standard. And they 100% could have done more by now, even if it was just a direct message to hunters and fisherman to stay the course (a subpage on their website isn't that). I know of at least one state offering permit refunds for the Turkey Hunt because of Covid-19, it's a very possible outcome but they have to advocate for it.

I will continue to ignore your demand not to use shaming language in regards to Brisket's non-hunting related BS. I will continue to highlight the very real risk hunters from the north pose to our area and plead for them to STAY HOME, the very clear message from the state and most of the world right now.

PS...never said you said Brisket was a victim. Those were my own words to highlight how he derailed this into what it's become. He received very little shame or guilt until he chose to put on the tinfoil hat about "papers please" movement restrictions and his completely ridiculous hypothetical about locking people away from medical care.


----------



## Packout

Shame away then. Not sure how you expect others to listen and take heed to your shame-based suggestions when you don't seem able to listen/accept others' valid points. Mirror, Mirror on the wall......


----------



## backcountry

Packout said:


> Shame away then. Not sure how you expect others to listen and take heed to your shame-based suggestions when you don't seem able to listen/accept others' valid points. Mirror, Mirror on the wall......


It's a cute response but only a handful of people here appear to be "listening" in the ideal way you infer. And trust me, I listen to the hunting side. My response to that remains a plea. The escalated response was solely about his BS along the papers please line which is definitely not "valid" in anyway. It's actually misinformation and the most fear mongered claim I've seen on any of these threads. Though his hypothetical BS about locking people in and therefore away from medical care is up there to.

I'm very comfortable with this approach, have been for awhile. You seem to be the one not practicing what you preach, if you genuinely care about what you say. Not sure how petty taunts fit into that expectation.


----------



## Vanilla

backcountry said:


> So yes, like other criticisms, I find their hedged response subpar, to put it kindly. That's not about a specific outcome other than their failure to lead clearly in this time, even if they choose to stay the course


Okay. That's fair since you are entitled to your opinion. Just like the rest of us are as well. To be candid, I happen to think your criticisms and focusing so simply on the minutia here in this thread is subpar, to put it kindly.

Staying home and not doing anything for a month, 6 weeks, 12 weeks may be the best way to not spread a virus, but it is actually not the best way to stay healthy. That's why even the most restrictive "stay at home" orders in the country allow people to go outside and exercise.

I will maintain that the risk of me infecting someone or being infected by someone if I were to go turkey hunting tomorrow is no more or less than sitting on my couch at home. There just is no logical way to suggest that.

Reasonableness. I'll continue to make a plea for it. If we are all reasonable, proper practices will be followed, proper activities will be conducted, and we'll all make it out of this as best as we could ever expect. Extremes are not healthy.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> So yes, like other criticisms, I find their hedged response subpar, to put it kindly. That's not about a specific outcome other than their failure to lead clearly in this time, even if they choose to stay the course
> 
> 
> 
> Okay. That's fair since you are entitled to your opinion. Just like the rest of us are as well. To be candid, I happen to think your criticisms and focusing so simply on the minutia here in this thread is subpar, to put it kindly.
> 
> Staying home and not doing anything for a month, 6 weeks, 12 weeks may be the best way to not spread a virus, but it is actually not the best way to stay healthy. That's why even the most restrictive "stay at home" orders in the country allow people to go outside and exercise.
> 
> I will maintain that the risk of me infecting someone or being infected by someone if I were to go turkey hunting tomorrow is no more or less than sitting on my couch at home. There just is no logical way to suggest that.
> 
> Reasonableness. I'll continue to make a plea for it. If we are all reasonable, proper practices will be followed, proper activities will be conducted, and we'll all make it out of this as best as we could ever expect. Extremes are not healthy.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt people consider my views subpar. That's clear, but I can cope with that assessment.

I assume you realize your contrast wasn't logical. Let's put it into context of heading to southern Utah:

A certain number of people will have to fill the cars with gas in our county = potential spread.

A certain number will grocery shop = immense potential for contact and spread.

You have no control over who rolls up to your camp or hunting spot = potential contact.

Trucks and cars break down = potential contact.

A certain number of asymptomatic people eventually show symptoms and need care = potential contact and spread.

The more people are out hunting and camping the more BLM, USDS, sheriff's, etc have to patrol = potential contact and spread.

That's clearly not an exhaustive list.

None of those are a potential risk if you STAY HOME on your couch. Pleading for people to exercise in their own neighborhood/city/county is not extreme, it's actually a very reasonable and measured response when dealing with a respiratory virus that causes a miserable, life threatening outcomes and heavy use of PPE we are still low on.

It's not new information that we pose a greater risk to others the more time we spend outside our homes and home "areas" (neighborhoods, cities, counties, states, countries).

It's not accidental that the declaration is titled "Stay Home, Stay Safe".


----------



## Vanilla

backcountry said:


> It's not accidental that the declaration is titled "Stay Home, Stay Safe".


Nor is it accidental that in the very plan you cite, hunting is not only allowed, but was encouraged.

You have strong takes on this, and it is fine. It doesn't mean you are correct, however. At least not on this one.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not accidental that the declaration is titled "Stay Home, Stay Safe".
> 
> 
> 
> Nor is it accidental that in the very plan you cite, hunting is not only allowed, but was encouraged.
> 
> You have strong takes on this, and it is fine. It doesn't mean you are correct, however. At least not on this one.
Click to expand...

The state directive is linked below. To be very clear, no where does it state we "should" hunt, per another's comment. It makes fair concessions for outdoor activities, including our shared passions. There is no "encouragement" in the order either. It's only mentioned in a paranthetical manner as an example.

But the first request is loud and clear "Stay at home as much as possible".

The governor is clear that "it is time for us to do more" and these requests are "minimum statewide standards".

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/full-text-governors-stay-home-stay-safe-directive/


----------



## Vanilla

backcountry said:


> The governor is clear that "it is time for us to do more" and these requests are "minimum statewide standards".
> 
> https://coronavirus.utah.gov/full-text-governors-stay-home-stay-safe-directive/


We can debate semantics all day. It was the governor in his press conference that made the encouraging comment. You can disagree with people's choices, but you can't accurately cite any of the things you've been citing as your reasons. Because they ALL go in favor of allowing someone to go hunting.

It's okay if you disagree with that. You're entitled to your opinion. Just like others are as well. I'm sure they (we?) think you are just as wrong as you think they (we?) are.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> The governor is clear that "it is time for us to do more" and these requests are "minimum statewide standards".
> 
> https://coronavirus.utah.gov/full-text-governors-stay-home-stay-safe-directive/
> 
> 
> 
> We can debate semantics all day. It was the governor in his press conference that made the encouraging comment. You can disagree with people's choices, but you can't accurately cite any of the things you've been citing as your reasons. Because they ALL go in favor of allowing someone to go hunting.
> 
> It's okay if you disagree with that. You're entitled to your opinion. Just like others are as well. I'm sure they (we?) think you are just as wrong as you think they (we?) are.
Click to expand...

To be clear though, it's not just semantics. The directive is written in a clear order and number one and the title aren't accidental. The directive does not encourage hunting or fishing, even if it makes allowances.

And I have accurately stated and defended my pleas here. I just linked the actual declaration.

Which goes back to the talk of liberty. This state directive is a voluntary request in which the governor says the request are the minimum and we need to do more, if we hope to beat this thing. We get the choice to decide the fate of this disease. And we know traveling increases the potential for spread and therefore the potential for fatalities as well.

We can all rationalize why we think we can mitigate the spread better than others but the surefire way to stop this is to STAY HOME (on your couch). Traveling outside our home areas is not the best solution or protocol. That's rational, logical and factual.

No matter the case, individuals get to decide. And internet disagreements will continue.


----------



## Packout

Gov Herbert- 
"Certainly, individuals may engage in outdoor activities. We've talked about walking, hiking, biking, running. Hunting and fishing is ok." (minute 13 of his remarks on 03/27/2020)

Seeing as we can't hunt within the city limits of most Utah municipalities, I will go with Governor Herbert's seal of approval to use open public lands in a responsible manner. And if he, or some other governmental authority, decides to close that opportunity I will then abide by that decision. Until then, I'll will shed the shame and condescending attitude of some who seek to impose their selfish vision of what they want the masses to abide by. (And I do understand those who shame believe I am being selfish. Thus the impasse.)


----------



## Vanilla

We could literally go in circles all day. You keep citing this plan, but clearly you are missing the point. Oh well. I tried. 

Good luck to all the hunters out there. Be safe and be smart.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> The governor is clear that "it is time for us to do more" and these requests are "minimum statewide standards".
> 
> https://coronavirus.utah.gov/full-text-governors-stay-home-stay-safe-directive/
> 
> 
> 
> We can debate semantics all day. It was the governor in his press conference that made the encouraging comment. You can disagree with people's choices, but you can't accurately cite any of the things you've been citing as your reasons. Because they ALL go in favor of allowing someone to go hunting.
> 
> It's okay if you disagree with that. You're entitled to your opinion. Just like others are as well. I'm sure they (we?) think you are just as wrong as you think they (we?) are.
Click to expand...

Nowhere in the press conference did the Governor encourage hunting or fishing. He listed it as "okay" as an example of the outdoor activities in the written directive. But that was the only comment, tepid at best, he made. Consistent with the directive he emphasized, his own words, STAY HOME.

To be clear, the state and Governor do not encourage hunting, especially out of county. They aren't discouraging it but they have said verbally and written that they "expect" us to do what is necessary.

I am most definitely not the one missing the point. The point is STAY HOME. It's in the title. It's the first request. And it's emphasized multiple times in his press conference.

https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/herbert-provides-covid-19-update

He also referred to the health districts having the means to do more expansive restrictions and that they support them in their attempt to quash this disease.


----------



## Vanilla

backcountry said:


> Nowhere in the press conference did the Governor encourage hunting or fishing. He listed it as "okay" as an example of the outdoor activities in the written directive. But that was the only comment, tepid at best, he made. Consistent with the directive he emphasized, his own words, STAY HOME.
> 
> To be clear, the state and Governor do not encourage hunting, especially out of county. They aren't discouraging it but they have said verbally and written that they "expect" us to do what is necessary.
> 
> I am most definitely not the one missing the point. The point is STAY HOME. It's in the title. It's the first request. And it's emphasized multiple times in his press conference.
> 
> https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/herbert-provides-covid-19-update


Go watch the press conference and tell me with a straight face the comment was "tepid at best."

You're now in the realm of sheer ridiculousness. You need to check out of this one. You're not being rational.

Remember, you were the guy that was only "80% sure" you were done with Panguitch because it wasn't a state park and there are differences between staffed state parks and other areas. Remember that from just a few days ago? It's got to be exhausting.


----------



## backcountry

Packout said:


> Gov Herbert-
> "Certainly, individuals may engage in outdoor activities. We've talked about walking, hiking, biking, running. Hunting and fishing is ok." (minute 13 of his remarks on 03/27/2020)
> 
> Seeing as we can't hunt within the city limits of most Utah municipalities, I will go with Governor Herbert's seal of approval to use open public lands in a responsible manner. And if he, or some other governmental authority, decides to close that opportunity I will then abide by that decision. Until then, I'll will shed the shame and condescending attitude of some who seek to impose their selfish vision of what they want the masses to abide by. (And I do understand those who shame believe I am being selfish. Thus the impasse.)


May is way short of "should" or encouragement. Stop moving the goalpost.

No one here has said you can't legally hunt. We are literally pleading for you to voluntarily go beyond the legal restrictions and inconvenience yourself for a month or two. The legal argument is a red herring and distraction.

And by definition choosing to go hunting in less affected county from a state's hotspot during a pandemic is literally selfish compared to community minded plea to STAY HOME, just like the governor emphasized. You get to be selfish but that's definitely not in the spirit of the situation or a way to flatten the curve and prevent the spread.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in the press conference did the Governor encourage hunting or fishing. He listed it as "okay" as an example of the outdoor activities in the written directive. But that was the only comment, tepid at best, he made. Consistent with the directive he emphasized, his own words, STAY HOME.
> 
> To be clear, the state and Governor do not encourage hunting, especially out of county. They aren't discouraging it but they have said verbally and written that they "expect" us to do what is necessary.
> 
> I am most definitely not the one missing the point. The point is STAY HOME. It's in the title. It's the first request. And it's emphasized multiple times in his press conference.
> 
> https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/herbert-provides-covid-19-update
> 
> 
> 
> Go watch the press conference and tell me with a straight face the comment was "tepid at best."
> 
> You're now in the realm of sheer ridiculousness. You need to check out of this one. You're not being rational.
> 
> Remember, you were the guy that was only "80% sure" you were done with Panguitch because it wasn't a state park and there are differences between staffed state parks and other areas. Remember that from just a few days ago? It's got to be exhausting.
Click to expand...

I literally just watched it....it was tepid as hell. It was not an encouragement. It was an aside. Your memory is inaccurate. Rewatch, the comment about hunting is around minute 17 in my link. He didn't encourage anything other than STAY HOME, multiple times. It's the only time he emphasized anything besides trying to balance economic needs with protecting health. The ridiculousness is saying "hunting and fishing is okay" is some type of encouragement. It's a concession and acceptance of activity which makes sense in a state that prides itself on being conservative. But "okay" is encouragement? Sorry, but that's not rational.

[Edit: one of the definitions of "okay" is "satisfactory but not exceptionally or especially good". Far short of "should" or encouragement.]

My 80% was actionable. I didn't go fishing this week and haven't been in 11 days. I literally stopped fishing before the directive and probably won't even go in my own county because of community spread, which happened after my last fishing trip. You argument remains illogical as it did the first time.


----------



## brisket

backcountry said:


> The escalated response was solely about his BS along the papers please line which is definitely not "valid" in anyway.


 I'll address this, then I'm out. It's not worth my time arguing with someone that is so hooked on the media and government propaganda to see any other viewpoints.

You keep coming back to the "Papers, please" comment. This came up in my conversation with the guy who was fixing my internet connection shortly before I posted that, so it was on my mind. He had a card issued to him proving his job was essential allowing him to travel in Salt Lake County. He related it to Nazi Germany and was inquiring what was happening to our country.

I have a friend stationed in Maryland for the army, he texted me today: 


> "So I don't know how bad it is in Utah, but if you're driving around in Maryland right now, you can and will be pulled over and given a fine unless you're going to/from work, working, or are getting food. I have to carry a memo with me from the office of the United States attorneys general that says I can go to work. I mean how crazy is that? "


I also spoke with a colleague from the SF Bay area today, she personally knows a couple people that have been fined for being out for non-essential reasons. This isn't tin foil hat stuff, travel is being restricted around the nation right now. Thankfully Utah seems to be handling it slightly better than the rest.


----------



## brisket

I believe my life will be better without seeing your posts. Even so I wish you the best of luck and I hope you stay safe and make it through this difficult time.


----------



## backcountry

brisket said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> The escalated response was solely about his BS along the papers please line which is definitely not "valid" in anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll address this, then I'm out. It's not worth my time arguing with someone that is so hooked on the media and government propaganda to see any other viewpoints.
> 
> You keep coming back to the "Papers, please" comment. This came up in my conversation with the guy who was fixing my internet connection shortly before I posted that, so it was on my mind. He had a card issued to him proving his job was essential allowing him to travel in Salt Lake County. He related it to Nazi Germany and was inquiring what was happening to our country.
> 
> I have a friend stationed in Maryland for the army, he texted me today:
> 
> 
> 
> "So I don't know how bad it is in Utah, but if you're driving around in Maryland right now, you can and will be pulled over and given a fine unless you're going to/from work, working, or are getting food. I have to carry a memo with me from the office of the United States attorneys general that says I can go to work. I mean how crazy is that? "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I also spoke with a colleague from the SF Bay area today, she personally knows a couple people that have been fined for being out for non-essential reasons. This isn't tin foil hat stuff, travel is being restricted around the nation right now. Thankfully Utah seems to be handling it slightly better than the rest.
Click to expand...




brisket said:


> I believe my life will be better without seeing your posts. Even so I wish you the best of luck and I hope you stay safe and make it through this difficult time.
> 
> View attachment 140927


More power you. But you are definitely tin-foiled up if you are bringing up Nazi Germany in this conversation. Can't believe we are to the point of quoting the cable guy to validate conspiracy theories. I mean, what can go wrong there?

All this from someone who clearly didn't even understand the legal orders in his own area.

And all of the hot garbage from simply highlighting your own words. You might win the internet today.


----------



## Finnegan

brisket said:


> My son drew a LE turkey tag, the hunt starts a week from Saturday. I don't see the COVID-19 restrictions getting better before then and seeing how I'll have to leave the county for the hunt, is this an automatic tag soup situation?
> Can I just play the "we're going to procure food" card in order to not be fined or slapped with a misdemeanor?
> I don't suppose the DWR would be up for reinstating his points if the state is shut down.


Hard to answer any of those questions with so much fluctuation and chaos right now. If I was a betting man, I'd say your son won't be able to hunt. Me, neither. But who knows what will develop in the next week?

Understandably, government leadership doesn't know whether to wind their butts or scratch their watches. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious public push-back at some point in this story.

Absolutely sucks, but I'll tell you what. I live to fish and hunt, but I'd be happy to write off this whole **** year if I could hold my grandkids again.


----------



## goosefreak

Like I said, I will be Turkey hunting the first week of the GS in southern UT. (Not in a mentioned county) but, I could care less if it was. Selfish I know!! 

The Governor did say that camping, hunting, fishing recreating, going out side is still okay as long as we abide by the social distancing guidelines.

And only residents of the county can access state parks. (Good thing I don’t hunt turkeys in state parks.) 

You can’t close down BLM or national forest. Sorry, I’m not eating that $hit sandwich.


----------



## backcountry

This is why we are pleading with people to not visit SW Utah. We have a total of 37 confirmed infections and 7 are from "visitors", not residents of area. 19% of our regional cases involve people visiting the area and that will only get worse as the weather continues to warm up. Given those numbers are inherently old, roughly 5 days to test, that could mean those "visitors" have led to an additional 14+ currently undetected infections (very conservative estimate) given how we are experiencing exponential growth down here. Our area is currently doubling every 2-3 days. And those estimates don't include more visitors traveling to the area.

Despite our best intentions we are likely to spread the disease if we travel outside our homes and home areas. We just aren't great at preventing the spread of respiratory viruses hence the universal and state mantra to STAY HOME.

https://swuhealth.org/covid/

PS.... Governor never mentioned camping in declaration or press conference. And the BLM and USFS could definitely prohibit camping if they chose to.


----------



## goosefreak

So, the Governor signed an executive order limiting access to state parks and state parks only.

Accessible to only residence of the county,

State parks are separate from BLM or USFS 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see any closures in those areas


----------



## brisket

I just received this email from the DWR:


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> So, the Governor signed an executive order limiting access to state parks and state parks only.
> 
> Accessible to only residence of the county,
> 
> State parks are separate from BLM or USFS
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see any closures in those areas


SE Utah Health District published an order prohibiting all camping in their counties, including federal lands. Multiple counties have desperately pleaded with the public to not visit those areas at all. Multiple closures exist in designated campgrounds across southern Utah.

Not to mention, the principle age groups principally affected in Utah, ie those currently diagnosed, are right smack in the middle of hunter demographics. More and more evidence exists that the viral loading in this disease is highest earlier than most viruses and is therefore easily spread while asymptomatic. And now the nation is about to encourage everyone to wear masks given evidence of spread just through breathing, ie likely more aerosolized than initially expected.

We as hunters can voluntarily inconvenience ourselves and reduce travel outside our home areas during the worst global pandemic of our lifetimes, and probably the last century. And as Brisket just linked, the DWR is offering full refunds despite not canceling hunt.

The message is clear: STAY HOME. It's being stated far and wide.


----------



## Vanilla

Pretty clear what the state’s guidance on the hunt is. They did not seem to mince words on the benefits of hunting right now. 

However, the county orders are where some will find themselves at odds.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> Pretty clear what the state's guidance on the hunt is. They did not seem to mince words on the benefits of hunting right now.
> 
> However, the county orders are where some will find themselves at odds.


But they have zero guidance on hunting outside your home area. There is a reason they closed state parks, the few lands they own, to out of county individuals. Fauci is vocalizing support for a national shelter in place order and mayor's across the state are vocalizing support for a statewide order. Just because my region's commissioners are blase about the disease does not mean our area isn't at immense risk for spread from travel. We have fewer medical resources and rural areas has demographically older populations. Any amount of "visitor" based infection is more than we need.

Plus, during the pres conference, Herbert supported county health departments taking measures above his voluntary guidance (at the time) to protect their citizens.

Get a Turkey Hunt refund and STAY HOME. Recreate in your own home areas. Help protect Southern Utah residents from increased spread until we get ahead of this.

Almost 20% of our regions documented infections are from visitors. That is not a manageable number during an exponential growth curve.


----------



## Vanilla

There will never be a way to prove this, but if it could be verified, I’d be willing to bet everything I own that the ultimate number of infections in the regions you mention will be far greater from those residents going other places for resources, entertainment, or any other reason than will be spread by sportsman going to those places to recreate. You should be telling the people around you to stay away from our resources in the non-rural areas if they truly want to stop spread.

(See what I did? “Our” resources...)


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> There will never be a way to prove this, but if it could be verified, I'd be willing to bet everything I own that the ultimate number of infections in the regions you mention will be far greater from those residents going other places for resources, entertainment, or any other reason than will be spread by sportsman going to those places to recreate. You should be telling the people around you to stay away from our resources in the non-rural areas if they truly want to stop spread.
> 
> (See what I did? "Our" resources...)


I am. I'm encouraging every person I know to STAY HOME. You don't see it as it's not relevant to this forum. And I've never said "our" resources. I've consistently pled for people to voluntarily stay in your home areas not because it's "our" unique resource as a county but because travel poses on inherent risk during a pandemic. They only people making the argument about who has a claim to these resources are people countering these safety based pleas to justify continuing forward with hunts.

Remember, Herbert has consistently stated he "expects" citizens to do "more" to stop the spread of this disease. He regularly emphasizes staying home as much as possible. People can exercise, fish and hunt in their own counties in the interim.

*Per bet...who cares. The goal in flattening the curve is inherently population based and we should all be doing the most possible if we want to get ahead of this. Not the minimum hurdle set by Herbert's voluntary measures (as related to personal activity) but the most. Sadly, despite your guess, we do know right now that 19% of our cases are visitors and each one of them had plenty of chances to seed more infections every day they were here. Reducing that makes a difference.


----------



## Papa Moses

My good freaking NESS this is like an episode of the bachelor. If there is an absolute government mandate that someone can NOT enter the county then that would be the final say. But all this he said crap is ridiculous, childish, and not part of the true hunting community. If someone wants to travel by gawlly they live in America. If they do what the DWR asked and follow social distancing guidelines, CDC health standards, and avoid your precious gas stations where most of the community thrives anyways then they can hunt. 
America- land of the FREE. Every American has the right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
Also, Wash your hands.


----------



## OriginalOscar

Papa Moses said:


> My good freaking NESS this is like an episode of the bachelor. If there is an absolute government mandate that someone can NOT enter the county then that would be the final say. But all this he said crap is ridiculous, childish, and not part of the true hunting community. If someone wants to travel by gawlly they live in America. If they do what the DWR asked and follow social distancing guidelines, CDC health standards, and avoid your precious gas stations where most of the community thrives anyways then they can hunt.
> America- land of the FREE. Every American has the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
> Also, Wash your hands.


Amen!! I did tell my buddy he had to ride in back. I've got a shell on truck and he can dress warm.


----------



## backcountry

Papa Moses said:


> My good freaking NESS this is like an episode of the bachelor. If there is an absolute government mandate that someone can NOT enter the county then that would be the final say. But all this he said crap is ridiculous, childish, and not part of the true hunting community. If someone wants to travel by gawlly they live in America. If they do what the DWR asked and follow social distancing guidelines, CDC health standards, and avoid your precious gas stations where most of the community thrives anyways then they can hunt.
> America- land of the FREE. Every American has the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
> Also, Wash your hands.


No one here is saying you can't. We are begging you not to. That's also a freedom in this country. And I'll keep ringing that **** bell until more people start recognizing the Governor's directive was a bare minimum, not the most, we can do. Multiple people in this thread have claimed the Governor said we "should" hunt or that he encouraged it; he didn't. Someone said he mentioned camping, he didn't.

So please, STAY HOME during the worst global pandemic of our lives.


----------



## Papa Moses

backcountry said:


> No one here is saying you can't. We are begging you not to. That's also a freedom in this country. And I'll keep ringing that **** bell until more people start recognizing the Governor's directive was a bare minimum, not the most, we can do. Multiple people in this thread have claimed the Governor said we "should" hunt or that he encouraged it; he didn't. Someone said he mentioned camping, he didn't.
> 
> So please, STAY HOME during the worst global pandemic of our lives.


"We are Begging" All I see is you begging. Will you accept this rose?
I watch the president's and governors broadcast, and stay socially distanced, wash my hands, and scout turkeys several times a week. I do my part but I will not tell people how to live their lives. Especially this community, because we are adults. As long as you do what's required then that is fine. There is a reason why it's required.

So please STAY SAFE, during this pandemic, and wash your hands


----------



## backcountry

Papa Moses said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one here is saying you can't. We are begging you not to. That's also a freedom in this country. And I'll keep ringing that **** bell until more people start recognizing the Governor's directive was a bare minimum, not the most, we can do. Multiple people in this thread have claimed the Governor said we "should" hunt or that he encouraged it; he didn't. Someone said he mentioned camping, he didn't.
> 
> So please, STAY HOME during the worst global pandemic of our lives.
> 
> 
> 
> "We are Begging" All I see is you begging. Will you accept this rose?
> I watch the president's and governors broadcast, and stay socially distanced, wash my hands, and scout turkeys several times a week. I do my part but I will not tell people how to live their lives. Especially this community, because we are adults. As long as you do what's required then that is fine. There is a reason why it's required.
> 
> So please STAY SAFE, during this pandemic, and wash your hands
Click to expand...

There was one other person earlier, hence "we". Yep, we are all adults. And we are both now using the same language of pleading. In fact you just used the same all caps. Welcome to the club. I'll keep ringing the bell.

One caveat... I'm more than willing to ask people to do more than the minimum asked by our Governor; for most areas in Utah nothing is required individual behavior (different for businesses). Liberty and freedom also include doing more than is asked in limiting our own behavior. In fact, voluntary constraint in the face of crisis is one of the mechanisms to reduce government action.

Feel free to use the "ignore" button if need be. You have that privilege and freedom. Seems to have helped Brisket and more power to him.


----------



## Papa Moses

backcountry said:


> Papa Moses said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one here is saying you can't. We are begging you not to. That's also a freedom in this country. And I'll keep ringing that **** bell until more people start recognizing the Governor's directive was a bare minimum, not the most, we can do. Multiple people in this thread have claimed the Governor said we "should" hunt or that he encouraged it; he didn't. Someone said he mentioned camping, he didn't.
> 
> So please, STAY HOME during the worst global pandemic of our lives.
> 
> 
> 
> "We are Begging" All I see is you begging. Will you accept this rose?
> I watch the president's and governors broadcast, and stay socially distanced, wash my hands, and scout turkeys several times a week. I do my part but I will not tell people how to live their lives. Especially this community, because we are adults. As long as you do what's required then that is fine. There is a reason why it's required.
> 
> So please STAY SAFE, during this pandemic, and wash your hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one other person earlier, hence "we". Yep, we are all adults. And we are both now using the same language of pleading. In fact you just used the same all caps. Welcome to the club. I'll keep ringing the bell.
> 
> One caveat... I'm more than willing to ask people to do more than the minimum asked by our Governor; for most areas in Utah nothing is required individual behavior (different for businesses). Liberty and freedom also include doing more than is asked in limiting our own behavior. In fact, voluntary constraint in the face of crisis is one of the mechanisms to reduce government action.
> 
> Feel free to use the "ignore" button if need be. You have that privilege and freedom. Seems to have helped Brisket and more power to him.
Click to expand...

Man you gotta learn how to read. We are not using the same in all caps. We have the same logic of common sense. 
I won't ignore. I'm pleading to stop all the moaning and groaning. It's unreal and immature
Everyone needs to step up and take some personal hygiene responsibility. 
If someone wants to hunt, And they follow the guidelines by our health leaders it's fine and therefore shouldn't be such a big fuss. There's worse things in life to worry about.


----------



## backcountry

Papa Moses said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papa Moses said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one here is saying you can't. We are begging you not to. That's also a freedom in this country. And I'll keep ringing that **** bell until more people start recognizing the Governor's directive was a bare minimum, not the most, we can do. Multiple people in this thread have claimed the Governor said we "should" hunt or that he encouraged it; he didn't. Someone said he mentioned camping, he didn't.
> 
> So please, STAY HOME during the worst global pandemic of our lives.
> 
> 
> 
> "We are Begging" All I see is you begging. Will you accept this rose?
> I watch the president's and governors broadcast, and stay socially distanced, wash my hands, and scout turkeys several times a week. I do my part but I will not tell people how to live their lives. Especially this community, because we are adults. As long as you do what's required then that is fine. There is a reason why it's required.
> 
> So please STAY SAFE, during this pandemic, and wash your hands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one other person earlier, hence "we". Yep, we are all adults. And we are both now using the same language of pleading. In fact you just used the same all caps. Welcome to the club. I'll keep ringing the bell.
> 
> One caveat... I'm more than willing to ask people to do more than the minimum asked by our Governor; for most areas in Utah nothing is required individual behavior (different for businesses). Liberty and freedom also include doing more than is asked in limiting our own behavior. In fact, voluntary constraint in the face of crisis is one of the mechanisms to reduce government action.
> 
> Feel free to use the "ignore" button if need be. You have that privilege and freedom. Seems to have helped Brisket and more power to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Man you gotta learn how to read. We are not using the same in all caps. We have the same logic of common sense.
> I won't ignore. I'm pleading to stop all the moaning and groaning. It's unreal and immature
> Everyone needs to step up and take some personal hygiene responsibility.
> If someone wants to hunt, And they follow the guidelines by our health leaders it's fine and therefore shouldn't be such a big fuss. There's worse things in life to worry about.
Click to expand...

Ugh, if you are going to knit pick then present my comment correctly ... I said "same all caps" not the "same in all caps". Don't critique someone's reading abilities if you are literally the one who actually lacks it.

There isn't much worse in life right now for most of the world to worry about than a global pandemic. It's why most of the world right now is being asked to STAY HOME. Individuals yes, and I sure hope they focus on those needs. But going turkey hunting in southern Utah is definitely less important than limiting the spread of this disease or limiting impact on hospitals and healthcare workers.

There is nothing immature or unreal about imploring people to do the only thing we can to know we stopped the spread of a disease that drowns fellow citizens in their own mucus. Especially when ideas that are untrue are presented as justification to go.


----------



## goosefreak

Sure, and everybody can enjoy recreation in their counties, but what about the Salt Lake County guys? I guess we’re just SOL!

I keep hearing about this biggest pandemic of our lifetime, and why is that? Because the government labeled as such? I agree wholeheartedly that this is a serious issue but, I’m pretty sure there are a lot of things that kill far more people worldwide than this has, like smoking, diabetes, or the common flu, etc. 

Fouci also said once a virus finds a host, it is impossible to contain it. 
So why drag it out? I’m not talking about being reckless about it but, being smart with it, is a total global economical crash safer than the alternative? I’m not convinced

I really do not want to get in a debate about this, and that’s not what I’m looking to do really. I’m just saying there are other things that cause more deaths worldwide then this and we don’t bat an eye at it, like we should.

When I leave my house to go turkey hunting, I only stopped once to get fuel and that’s it, I will happily wear a hand condom if it makes people feel safer


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> Sure, and everybody can enjoy recreation in their counties, but what about the Salt Lake County guys? I guess we're just SOL!
> 
> I keep hearing about this biggest pandemic of our lifetime, and why is that? Because the government labeled as such? I agree wholeheartedly that this is a serious issue but, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of things that kill far more people worldwide than this has, like smoking, diabetes, or the common flu, etc.
> 
> Fouci also said once a virus finds a host, it is impossible to contain it.
> So why drag it out? I'm not talking about being reckless about it but, being smart with it, is a total global economical crash safer than the alternative? I'm not convinced
> 
> I really do not want to get in a debate about this, and that's not what I'm looking to do really. I'm just saying there are other things that cause more deaths worldwide then this and we don't bat an eye at it, like we should.
> 
> When I leave my house to go turkey hunting, I only stopped once to get fuel and that's it, I will happily wear a hand condom if it makes people feel safer


Because it is the biggest pandemic. Not because the gubment says so but because of the data. It's blatantly the worst virus spread in recent memory. How many times in your life have you seen when tens of thousands of people are simultaneously in the hospital fighting for their lives from the same disease? One that slowly drowns people in their own mucus as even the highest levels of intervention struggle to help.

Car accidents and heart attacks aren't spread as a contagion when you travel to Turkey hunt. They aren't apple to apples comparisons or related to the topic at hand. They are red herrings. (And we as a nation have taken them both seriously for decades)

You can't control who comes into your camp or hunting area. You can't control if your car randomly breaks down. You can't control if you are asymptomatic and suddenly need medical care in a different area while on your hunt. And most people will end up grocery shopping and interacting with people on their trip. There are plenty of variables that are clearly worse at potential spread in Southern Utah that do not exist if you stay home.

I think you are taking Fauci out of context. We can most definitely slow the spread of the disease by staying home. It's what he recommends, not subtly. He's voicing interest in a national shelter in place order. He knows the way the disease spread and that even the best meaning citizens infect others. The only measures that are currently known to limit that spread include a significant reduction in travel.

This isn't a normal hunting season and every indication is to STAY HOME and limit recreation to your home area. Eliminate the risk of seeding the disease from a known hot spot to an area with fewer people and an older population.

It's an inconvenient but simple solution. And you can even get a refund now. And we are all SOL in some fashion during this experience.


----------



## willfish4food

I'm not sure which is worse. All the people trying to convince one, who will clearly not change his mind, that going hunting is okay, or the one responding to all the comments. 

All I really know is that this is one more thing that COVID has made a suckky suckfest. Used to be that the worst part of waiting for draw results was the waiting. Now the worst part might be when results come out and arguments ensue about where we should be able to hunt.


----------



## goosefreak

No, we are not all SOL, I live in SLC county and there is almost nothing I can do to recreate, it’s all city.

If you live anywhere outside of salt lake and Davis county there are plenty of places you can hunt, fish, camp, recreate. The social distancing options are FAR more abundant then that of SLC and or Davis county.

State government agencies are absolutely discriminating. Some of the cases of the virus in rural areas are from visitors including out of state. I’m a Utah resident.

So if you live in SLC or Davis county you are literally SOL. “Apparently”

I am NOT taking this threat lightly but, I’m not as hyped up as most either. I didn't like being closer then 10 feet from people even before all this, and Iv been washing my hands hypochondriac style before it was cool.

I certainly don’t need somebody to remind me to be safe and healthy and practice good hygiene.

I have 2 young kids at home and with this isolation, I see it as more destructive than it is good. I don’t want my kids thinking this kind of sitting around is normal and they are too young to understand the magnitude of this. 
I am a more primitive camper. I most certainly can control people from entering my camp site, unless it’s law-enforcement, they’re going to do what they want to do anyways.

I will adhere to the laws of the land given the location I find myself in, however, BLM and USFS is still open in most county’s


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> No, we are not all SOL, I live in SLC county and there is almost nothing I can do to recreate, it's all city.
> 
> If you live anywhere outside of salt lake and Davis county there are plenty of places you can hunt, fish, camp, recreate. The social distancing options are FAR more abundant then that of SLC and or Davis county.
> 
> State government agencies are absolutely discriminating. Some of the cases of the virus in rural areas are from visitors including out of state. I'm a Utah resident.
> 
> So if you live in SLC or Davis county you are literally SOL. "Apparently"
> 
> I am NOT taking this threat lightly but, I'm not as hyped up as most either. I didn't like being closer then 10 feet from people even before all this, and Iv been washing my hands hypochondriac style before it was cool.
> 
> I certainly don't need somebody to remind me to be safe and healthy and practice good hygiene.
> 
> I have 2 young kids at home and with this isolation, I see it as more destructive than it is good. I don't want my kids thinking this kind of sitting around is normal and they are too young to understand the magnitude of this.
> I am a more primitive camper. I most certainly can control people from entering my camp site, unless it's law-enforcement, they're going to do what they want to do anyways.
> 
> I will adhere to the laws of the land given the location I find myself in, however, BLM and USFS is still open in most county's


We are all SOL, you aren't unique in this. My favorite ice fishing spot is in another county so I stopped going. I don't have a snowmobile to go to the others. This is the time of year when I have the most success.

We have reservations the beginning of May we'll have to cancel unless a miracle happens. I won't get to do my favorite backpacking trip as a reprieve this month.

We are all SOL.

My MIL is slowly dying every day yet we don't take her out. Every family with kids in the US is under the same stress and issue as you. My household won't be able to use respite care for the next year at our current trajectory. We are all SOL. We aren't unique in that but we are all being asked to step and behave selflessly.

People can and do recreate in SLC region. We are a pretty adaptive species if we allow ourselves to.

We currently have the freedom to make the hunt decision this spring. But probability wise a certain number of each of the people heading to this area who think they can mitigate the spread simply won't and it will make this situation worse down here. That may or may not be you but it will be someone. And the only way not to is to STAY HOME.

We'll see how many people wrongly believe their governor said they "should" hunt in a week, I guess. We'll see how many people head out of the SLC hotspot thinking they are uniquely qualified to not spread this disease despite the weight of all conventional wisdom and expert advice on pandemics, at this point in their spread.


----------



## DallanC

backcountry said:


> And the only way not to is to STAY HOME.


I ran an errand to go pick up a "ksl deal" yesterday evening. I could not believe the amount of traffic. People sure as s$%t aint staying home.



> We'll see how many people wrongly believe their governor said they "should" hunt in a week, I guess. We'll see how many people head out of the SLC hotspot thinking they are uniquely qualified to not spread this disease despite the weight of all conventional wisdom and expert advice on pandemics, at this point in their spread.


I'd guess nearly all of them. If they dont have the disease they certainly cant spread it. Maybe getting out of the SLC valley for a while will help them avoid the virus and save their lives.

Go hunt, have fun. Dont touch the gas pumps. :mrgreen:

-DallanC


----------



## backcountry

DallanC said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the only way not to is to STAY HOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I ran an errand to go pick up a "ksl deal" yesterday evening. I could not believe the amount of traffic. People sure as s$%t aint staying home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We'll see how many people wrongly believe their governor said they "should" hunt in a week, I guess. We'll see how many people head out of the SLC hotspot thinking they are uniquely qualified to not spread this disease despite the weight of all conventional wisdom and expert advice on pandemics, at this point in their spread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd guess nearly all of them. If they dont have the disease they certainly cant spread it. Maybe getting out of the SLC valley for a while will help them avoid the virus and save their lives.
> 
> Go hunt, have fun. Dont touch the gas pumps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -DallanC
Click to expand...

So, DallanC, how do people know they don't have the disease, as that's the crux of your statement?


----------



## Papa Moses

Backcountry, I’ve said what I’ve said. I won’t participate in what I set out to end. Also to answer your question. Swine flu outbreak about 10 years ago I’d say was just as bad as this or worse. There I named a pandemic in recent memory 

You obviously have your boots dug forehead deep in sh**. You’re one argument somehow is stronger than 40+ others (since this entire forum is just you driving everyone insane!) 
It’s like girls trying to discuss prom. No personal attacks as I’m sure you’re a great down to earth guy. Just this argument is pitiful a simple thread got blown WAY out of proportion and sadly I got sucked into it. 😞

To all happy hunting and safety in this time. I have a life to live and turkeys to scout.


----------



## goosefreak

No, we are not ALL SOL, just some of us are. You can go camping, or ride etc even if it’s in a spot you don’t care for. Living in SLC county, there is absolutely ZERO places to camp at this time, ride ATV’s, weenie roast etc. Even if it’s a less than ideal spot, 

It’s literally all city.

The Wasatch front is either closed down or has too much snow..

I mean literally, I don’t even have the option to even camping in a $hity spot..


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> No, we are not ALL SOL, just some of us are. You can go camping, or ride etc even if it's in a spot you don't care for. Living in SLC county, there is absolutely ZERO places to camp at this time, ride ATV's, weenie roast etc. Even if it's a less than ideal spot,
> 
> It's literally all city.
> 
> The Wasatch front is either closed down or has too much snow..


You know, I was wrong. You are uniquely victimized by this pandemic. I sure hope when it's all over someone starts a GoFundMe page to honor all the individuals unable, for weeks (GASP) to fish and shoot turkeys in the PJ. I definitely didn't think about your unique plight. I'm so sorry.

I'm sure once I start talking to the scientist and experts the world over they'll reconsider their recommendations. How could they stand for such suffering?

*A new product brought to you by the makers of Sarcasm


----------



## backcountry

Papa Moses said:


> Backcountry, I've said what I've said. I won't participate in what I set out to end. Also to answer your question. Swine flu outbreak about 10 years ago I'd say was just as bad as this or worse. There I named a pandemic in recent memory
> 
> You obviously have your boots dug forehead deep in sh**. You're one argument somehow is stronger than 40+ others (since this entire forum is just you driving everyone insane!)
> It's like girls trying to discuss prom. No personal attacks as I'm sure you're a great down to earth guy. Just this argument is pitiful a simple thread got blown WAY out of proportion and sadly I got sucked into it. &#128542;
> 
> To all happy hunting and safety in this time. I have a life to live and turkeys to scout.


Once again, I'm sorry. I didn't realize how many victims were in my path. I forgot I'm a tornado that "sucks" people into the vortex. I mistakenly operated under the assumption people had free will and choice. So wrong.

And yes, it was a perfectly good thread when the OP compared temporary health orders to Nazi Germany. I can't believe I missed that compelling argument for what it was.

Yeah, no personal attacks in your post. That was definitely a brilliantly composed, dispassionate example of keeping it non personal. I can't believe I failed to see I was the only one that is stubborn and unmovable. Shaking my head at myself.

And insanity is no joke. I hope each person is able to find the help they need to get out of the grips of my spell. The type of trauma that comes from being stuck in an internet argument is said to be the most challenging known to mankind.

Yes, please come to S. Utah during a contagious pandemic in which there is no cure. Nothing new or compelling going on. No possible way any of us are asymptomatic and imperfect enough to infect a fellow citizen with a disease that our medical profession clearly have under control. Maybe stop by the hospital on your way and take in the view a little and remind them that Goosefreak the only one SOL. That's the balm they need.

Scientist should study our unique skill at navigating the spread of a micron sized virus that lives in the air for hours. Clearly "STAY HOME" means we "should" go hunting and camping as far away from our homes as we want. Silly me.

*Team Sarcasm, a new app available on both iOS and Android


----------



## backcountry

Papa Moses said:


> Swine flu outbreak about 10 years ago I'd say was just as bad as this or worse. There I named a pandemic in recent memory


Holy Crap, I forgot about swine flu. Definitely wasn't on my radar at all. And yes, if we ignore numbers, written history, "facts" (smacts, am I right?) experts and models it's definitely as bad as this. You should really write Dr. Fauci and let him know about that one. I think he was vacationing on the moon then (globalist are so 2010). I'm sure he would love to remember that and must of just had a brain fart the last 2 months.

To be honest I think you might get an honorary degree out of the discovery. Liberty University would probably love to find a commencement speaker for this year's graduating class. Heck, you might be able to stand on the podium next to the My Pillow guy after he guest lectures his next epidemiology class at Vanderbilt.

Question for you. Are you also confused why the specialist don't recognize the face paint people use in hunting is obviously superior to N95 masks? I mean it's right in front of their faces; well I guess actually the entire point is it's camouflage and hard to see. Please tell the head of the CDC when you see him, I'm even willing to have him be the primary name on the publication.

* Sarcasm (TM)


----------



## goosefreak

I really don’t understand how you can’t understand how many more options you have for social distancing then those of SLC or Davis county.

If I lived in say, Cedar City, I could point in any direction with my eyes closed and there would be a good camping spot I could take my wife and kids to and still be within the county.

Good luck trying that in SLC.

You are your own prisoner...


----------



## goosefreak

Interesting, I just read a couple articles where the WHO said the swine flu killed 150,000 - 575,000 people.
The WHO also said about 250,000 - 500,000 people die from the seasonal flu world wide, annually...
but, I’m just reading into what the World Health Organization has said.

I don’t claim to be a doctor


----------



## MWScott72

My gosh, this has gone south. I couldn't even read the last few pages. Backcountry...as long as people follow the rules, just pipe down. You're a broken record on on spin cycle. Reminds me of the guy that demeans hunters that shoot small bucks because he would rather everyone else lay off the forkies, so he can shoot big bucks down the road. Whooptie-freakin-do! As long as folks follow the rules, why in hell does it matter?

As has been said...perhaps you should be talking to your friends in S. Utah that are visiting N. Utah to fulfill their shopping needs. Therein lies the bigger threat. Get over yourself, and realize that all of us are doing what we can to minimize the impact of COVID-19.


----------



## Gilmoregirl

So happy this was about turkey hunting. I think there is a place for political trolls. Oh yeah Facebook. Glad I don't have it.


----------



## backcountry

MWScott72 said:


> My gosh, this has gone south. I couldn't even read the last few pages. Backcountry...as long as people follow the rules, just pipe down. You're a broken record on on spin cycle. Reminds me of the guy that demeans hunters that shoot small bucks because he would rather everyone else lay off the forkies, so he can shoot big bucks down the road. Whooptie-freakin-do! As long as folks follow the rules, why in hell does it matter?
> 
> As has been said...perhaps you should be talking to your friends in S. Utah that are visiting N. Utah to fulfill their shopping needs. Therein lies the bigger threat. Get over yourself, and realize that all of us are doing what we can to minimize the impact of COVID-19.


This went south when Brisket acted like his freedoms were being taken away by German Nazi's. It was a pretty average thread until then.

You'll notice who I am targeting. For example, someone who thinks they are the only one who is SOL because he can't camp for a few weeks. And a person pushing seasonal flu comparisons with no sense of irony.

But there is a caveat.... traveling a hundred plus miles is not "doing what we can to minimize the impact of Covid-19". It's quite the opposite as it's inherently risks spreading it further than is remotely necessary.

I recognize that in our day to day lives most of us are doing our best. But this is the only place I'm part of that has people openly talking about any form of distant recreation during this global event. The only place. And I started my response as a very sincere plea but I will keep calling out the BS of all the other stuff from people misrepresenting the Governor's directive as we "should" go hunting to the notion that someone is uniquely SOL because they don't believe they can recreate for a few weeks. I have zero Fs to give about what anyone cares about that at this point if they continue to post on the internet with such drivel.

And I also wish more people would get over themselves and actually step up to do what's very much in our means and STAY HOME.

PS...I have told every one I know locally the same message about STAYING HOME. And that definitely includes not heading north. I very much wish our commissioners would reverse course and communicate the severity of this disease to my neighbors but they make Goosefreak look like a Covid-19 true believer.


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> I really don't understand how you can't understand how many more options you have for social distancing then those of SLC or Davis county.
> 
> If I lived in say, Cedar City, I could point in any direction with my eyes closed and there would be a good camping spot I could take my wife and kids to and still be within the county.
> 
> Good luck trying that in SLC.
> 
> You are your own prisoner...


And I can't understand how you think "camping" is in the spirit of "STAY HOME" when it's literally not mentioned in any of the directives as "essential". It's almost like they are encouraging people to do basic, short recreation so they end up at home afterwards. But you know, I've just read the orders and watched the Governor's press conference when he released the initiative.

You aren't a prisoner.


----------



## goosefreak

Because I’m not required to STAY HOME..
Or the governor would have shut down all activities 100%

I will be in southern Utah during the first week of May, Turkey hunting!

Sounds like you could use some air, your more than welcome to come sit around our camp fire, as long as you stay 6 ft away from me.


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> Because I'm not required to STAY HOME..
> Or the governor would have shut down all activities 100%
> 
> I will be in southern Utah during the first week of May, Turkey hunting!
> 
> Sounds like you could use some air, your more than welcome to come sit around our camp fire, as long as you stay 6 ft away from me.


Nope, you aren't any more than you are uniquely SOL. You have every ability right now to ignore his request.

And no...even people in places like Seattle and the Bay Area can go outside to recreate in the home areas, though each state is unique

PS....this thread was about the LE Turkey hunt starting next week. Not the GS Hunt in may. If experts are saying we can safely behave less restrained by May I won't be online pleading for people not to camp. Might help you to pay attention to actual context next time though.


----------



## goosefreak

It’s a good thing we have you around to be a civil spokesman for Government hopes in clarification of our rights guaranteed by the constitution 

If it wasn’t conference weekend, I’d be camping somewhere in Utah right now( probably southern) which is sooner than LE Turkey.


----------



## goosefreak

Because the feds are trustworthy stewards of this nation in all things right? I’m not so much of a conspiracy theorist but, I’m in control of my life and I’ll decide for myself what keeps me and my family safe without forgoing my freedom.

If I see it fit to stay home, I do so and I have. If I see it fit to relieve my family through recreational activity for the sake of mental health. I surely will do so


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> It's a good thing we have you around to be a civil spokesman for Government hopes in clarification of our rights guaranteed by the constitution
> 
> If it wasn't conference weekend, I'd be camping somewhere in Utah right now( probably southern) which is sooner than LE Turkey.





goosefreak said:


> Because the feds are trustworthy stewards of this nation in all things right? I'm not so much of a conspiracy theorist but, I'm in control of my life and I'll decide for myself what keeps me and my family safe without forgoing my freedom.
> 
> If I see it fit to stay home, I do so and I have. If I see it fit to relieve my family through recreational activity for the sake of mental health. I surely will do so


And people wonder why I interact with some here differently.

When Brisket compared temporary health orders to Nazi Germany it opened the door to such idiotic concepts.

Goosefreak, thank you for being the proof. The only thing you are a victim of is your own lack of basic critical thinking.

It cracks me up that you think highlighting your very real right to ignore a Governor's request and an internet plea remotely satisfies your statement.

I'm also amused that the couple here who claimed to understand liberty have such a frail concept of it and law in general. Brisket didn't even understand the health order in his own area. And here is Goosefreak acting like freedom is a muscle car he has to drive around as a form of overcompensation.

I sincerely hope you actually spent time making that meme. Please tell me that is yours?

And buddy....the tinfoil hat doesn't fit you like a glove on accident. Please join Brisket and Olibooger for the awards ceremony. You'll get an announcement soon.


----------



## backcountry

I'll be honest, I didn't have cattlecar on my Whackjob Bingo card. But I am still waiting for 5G.


----------



## DallanC

-DallanC


----------



## goosefreak

Backcountry, I honestly didn’t read your entire reply. Wast of my time! 

I hope you have a good day (honestly) and an even better week! Stay safe!!!


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> Backcountry, I honestly didn't read your entire reply. Wast of my time!
> 
> I hope you have a good day (honestly) and an even better week! Stay safe!!!


Okay, SOLSuperstar

I hope you learn to realize our situation isn't comparable to the Holocaust and our nation's medical experts might have a reason for fighting this more aggressively than swine flu.

Up to 12 cases in Iron Co, doubling every 2-3 days. SW Utah has the 2nd highest Covid-19 hospitalization rate (per confirmed infection) in Utah.

I wonder if that has anything to do with such an older population that is higher risk? Wonder what happens when a bunch of people from our state's hotspot descends on our area next weekend?

I can't imagine that will impact the spread here at all. No, it couldn't.

*Team Sarcasm reminds the tinfoil crew that the first rule of Conspiracy Theories Are Us (franchise opportunities still available) is not to lead with comparisons to Nazism. You've got to time that crescendo properly.


----------



## Dunkem

Thanks for keeping this fairly clean, no name calling, etc. Listen we all have our own beliefs. for me I am staying home because I fit the age, health data for an easy catch. Carry on but watch your Ps and Qs :mod:


----------



## goosefreak

You are a warrior backcountry, a true social justice warrior! I will lay my head a rest tonight knowing you lurk the internet streets in your erotic leather batman suit fighting the Covid-19 pandemic toe to toe.

Your courageous display of leadership in resilience through this pandemonium trying times has truly moved me to the core, and I mean truly.

Because of thy courage, the blind people within our communities can once again feel safe knowing the direction and guidance have been set forth by thy mouth.

In this prevalent time it is truly a blessing to have been socially fed through the words you have spoken and the relevant data you have so generously provided, though not risking your life for opting to stay home stay safe, non the less we have been edified by your counsel.

The world will never know the sacrifice and courage you have given but, those of us present this day will remember within our hearts. Backcountry, the pandemic assassin exalted on high 

Going forth from this day and hence forth, may we all remember the only way we can defy the laws of nature is to stay home. Generations will pass but, from your echoed words, and I truly mean echoed, the order of stay home stay safe will prosper upon the face of the earth. Man kind will forever be in debt of which cannot be repaid.

It is because of wisdom in you and the sacrifice you have made that will once again lead the world into prosperity...


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> You are a warrior backcountry, a true social justice warrior! I will lay my head a rest tonight knowing you lurk the internet streets in your erotic leather batman suit fighting the Covid-19 pandemic toe to toe.


I'm going to have to dust off bingo cards from 2016 to find "social justice warrior" anywhere. Not old school, ancient.

If cattlecar wasn't on my previous card than "erotic leather batman suit" is a completely different game. That's a left field one there.

I think you might have Olibooger beat with that odd twist in the plot. I had you figured as one of Godwin's lost children but that's .... different :shock: _/O


----------



## goosefreak

Backcountry, you are literally like a 3 year old trying to stuff a triangle block into a square hole...


----------



## brisket

goosefreak said:


> Backcountry, I honestly didn't read your entire reply. Wast of my time!
> 
> I hope you have a good day (honestly) and an even better week! Stay safe!!!


Hear, hear. I've bee living a backcountry-free life for a few days and it has been bliss. If interested, try the ignore list:


 Click on the user name then "View Public Profile"
Click the "USER LISTS" drop down and select "Add to Ignore List".


----------



## backcountry

I second using any tools for those who don't want to engage internet disputes, especially heated ones. I would also recommend against posting content as ridiculous as comparing our situation to Nazi cattlcars or papers please movie tropes unless you can take the flak.


----------



## backcountry

Utah State updated and clarified it's recommendations regarding outdoor recreation.

In general they "ask Utahns to visit parks and recreation areas that are close to home.". They emphasize that on BLM lands as well.

For USFS they emphasize that agency's requests: "At this time, Intermountain Region officials are discouraging recreating in undeveloped areas and will temporarily allow limited local day use of trails and rivers.". As well, "We are allowing but discouraging day and overnight dispersed recreation activities.". They emphasize "reducing impacts to local communities who may be at risk from the virus."

None of those are closures but the Governor's request is clearer than ever. STAY HOME and limit recreation to areas "that are close to home." And overnight camping is actively discouraged (at least on USFS lands)

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/recreation/


----------



## stick&string89

Looks to me like we are good to go with the exception of state parks which I think is a bunch of crap. I don’t feel that it is right that since I live in Davis County I can’t take my boat fishing in a neighboring county. I will gladly be spending the weekend on BLM Land or National Forest land and am in no way violating any laws or safe practices.

I bet Backcountry votes for Bernie to have the most restrictions place on him possible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

Check the county where you’re headed to see what their county restrictions are. We’re seeing more and more limit non-residents. Wasatch County specifically restricted non-county residents from recreating in the county. I’m not sure they have the authority to actually do that, but I’m not planning on being the test case. 

Other counties have done and will do the same. It’s pretty darn ridiculous, but we live in ridiculous times.


----------



## backcountry

stick&string89 said:


> Looks to me like we are good to go with the exception of state parks which I think is a bunch of crap. I don't feel that it is right that since I live in Davis County I can't take my boat fishing in a neighboring county. I will gladly be spending the weekend on BLM Land or National Forest land and am in no way violating any laws or safe practices.
> 
> I bet Backcountry votes for Bernie to have the most restrictions place on him possible.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Funny what people assume with such little information. You couldn't be more wrong.

Yep, as has been stated many times, multiple by me, there aren't any legal roadblocks yet. This is about a request to limit ourselves to stop the spread of a disease. Multiple people have deferred to the states requests and now they've clarified it. STAY HOME and recreate close to home.

We are entering a critical phase in Utah. We'll get to see how many people understand liberty is also about voluntary self-restraint not just freedom to do what we please. In fact, exercising temporary restraint in the face of temptation is one of the most effective ways of preserving liberty. Our Governor is appealing to that very choice.


----------



## stick&string89

Define close to home. Either way I look at it I am social distancing and following his orders. I have abided by and will continue to abide by the governors request, but I will not give my rights up to be on public lands where I can more than effectively practice the guidelines given. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## backcountry

stick&string89 said:


> Define close to home. Either way I look at it I am social distancing and following his orders. I have abided by and will continue to abide by the governors request, but I will not give my rights up to be on public lands where I can more than effectively practice the guidelines given.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Self restraint requires giving up zero rights.

The Governor has indirectly defined close to home as within one's own county in the state park order.

The only thing that spreads this disease is people. And the further people move the more the virus moves. The Governor and his staff know this, hence the voluntary directive and legal order. Traveling a hundred plus miles to hunt turkey is definitely not "close to home".

He's appealing to our selflessness to save lives, which he's added to the "STAY SAFE, STAY HOME, SAVE LIVES" initiative.


----------



## goosefreak

Hey backcountry, I watched the Whitehouse press conference the other day, I didn’t see you up there on stage!?! Where the heck were you?? 

I did see that the survival rate in the U.S. is 97+%

Can you make your CAPS bigger?? I’m having a hard time hearing you!!


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> Hey backcountry, I watched the Whitehouse press conference the other day, I didn't see you up there on stage!?! Where the heck were you??
> 
> I did see that the survival rate in the U.S. is 97+%
> 
> Can you make your CAPS bigger?? I'm having a hard time hearing you!!


Imagining me in an "erotic leather batman suit" again? That one still gives me a laugh. I would never have imagined anyone visualizing something like that, especially on a hunting forum. No one needs to see that, not even my wife.

Always interesting to see how people whose time I "waste" don't have the self control to stop coming back.

I had this inkling feeling there might be some irony to your caps lock statement:



goosefreak said:


> No, we are not ALL SOL, just some of us are. You can go camping, or ride etc even if it's in a spot you don't care for. Living in SLC county, there is absolutely ZERO places to camp at this time, ride ATV's, weenie roast etc.


* Team Sarcasm doesn't always troll the internet but when they do it tends to be quick action with people who post historically illiterate content that compares temporary inconvenience to Nazi Germany


----------



## goosefreak

Man, your backside is SORE isn’t it??

Are you off your meds again?


----------



## backcountry

If you are going to try to get a rise out of me you'll have to do much better than those tired old cliches. Maybe at least something contemporary from the last couple years?

I'm clearly willing to "waste" time pointing out stupid content. And posting a meme using Holocaust cattlecars definitely qualifies.


----------



## goosefreak

backcountry said:


> If you are going to try to get a rise out of me you'll have to do much better than that


Oh, I believe I already have....


----------



## backcountry

Hehe, I've been trolling you for pure entertainment for a while now. And it's working. I mean it took no time for you to pull out the Holocaust meme. I mean who has Holocaust memes stored away for forum comments? No rise, just laughs.

But I'm patiently waiting to see which Bingo card I should stamp........baited breathe......


----------



## goosefreak

I’m not going to STAY HOME. I’m going to go camping in southern Utah and use the gas pump to fuel up..

Your move..


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> I'm not going to STAY HOME. I'm going to go camping in southern Utah and use the gas pump to fuel up..
> 
> Your move..


That's cool especially since your hunt is in a month. Hopefully we are out of this and all can go outside more to pursue our passions.


----------



## goosefreak

backcountry said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to STAY HOME. I'm going to go camping in southern Utah and use the gas pump to fuel up..
> 
> Your move..
> 
> 
> 
> That's cool especially since your hunt is in a month. Hopefully we are out of this and all can go outside more to pursue our passions.
Click to expand...

Next weekend. Hide Easter eggs for the kids!


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to STAY HOME. I'm going to go camping in southern Utah and use the gas pump to fuel up..
> 
> Your move..
> 
> 
> 
> That's cool especially since your hunt is in a month. Hopefully we are out of this and all can go outside more to pursue our passions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Next weekend. Hide Easter eggs for the kids!
Click to expand...

I have a bet with my wife on how many posts I can get out of someone who says I "waste" their time. She's eternally an optimist so I'm guessing I'll win. At this point I'm just bored and running a free experiment.


----------



## goosefreak

backcountry said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to STAY HOME. I'm going to go camping in southern Utah and use the gas pump to fuel up..
> 
> Your move..
> 
> 
> 
> That's cool especially since your hunt is in a month. Hopefully we are out of this and all can go outside more to pursue our passions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Next weekend. Hide Easter eggs for the kids!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a bet with my wife on how many posts I can get out of someone who says I "waste" their time. She's eternally an optimist so I'm guessing I'll win.
Click to expand...

So you didn't want to attack me for taking my kids to hunt Easter eggs then?


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to STAY HOME. I'm going to go camping in southern Utah and use the gas pump to fuel up..
> 
> Your move..
> 
> 
> 
> That's cool especially since your hunt is in a month. Hopefully we are out of this and all can go outside more to pursue our passions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Next weekend. Hide Easter eggs for the kids!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a bet with my wife on how many posts I can get out of someone who says I "waste" their time. She's eternally an optimist so I'm guessing I'll win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you didn't want to attack me for taking my kids to hunt Easter eggs then?
Click to expand...

Nope, just playing online games while waiting to win a bet with my wife. Need to fill the time while the other person plays there move in Lexulous.


----------



## goosefreak

Then we are at a Mexican standoff because I’m trying to see how late I can keep you awake. Iv got time tonight..


----------



## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> Then we are at a Mexican standoff because I'm trying to see how late I can keep you awake. Iv got time tonight..


Sounds good. Looking for a word with the letters:

WNIUFAVA

Or any of the other boards linked.


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## goosefreak

I haven’t the slightest clue what that game even is. I play 2 games. Ticket to ride and phase Ten. otherwise I’m outside the house


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## backcountry

goosefreak said:


> I haven't the slightest clue what that game even is. I play 2 games. Ticket to ride and phase Ten. otherwise I'm outside the house


Lucky for my it's an online word game that can take hours or days to play. Perfect way to waste away nights in voluntary quarantine.

Hopefully this lady doesn't steal my spot as I have a bingo.


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## goosefreak

Well, I’m an essential employee so I’m still working and I just put 2 kids in bed and now it hit me like a ton of bricks. I’m hitting the fart sack. 

To be continued.....


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## backcountry

She took my spot but I found another. 
She's above my rank so it will have to be careful to win this one.


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## DallanC

backcountry said:


> She took my spot but I found another.
> She's above my rank so it will have to be careful to win this one.


You almost have "Slurpee"

-DallanC


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## backcountry

DallanC said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> 
> She took my spot but I found another.
> She's above my rank so it will have to be careful to win this one.
> 
> 
> 
> You almost have "Slurpee"
> 
> -DallanC
Click to expand...

There should be a slang or non-traditional Scrabble game for such words.


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## olibooger

It's nice to see some people get the bigger picture. It's the same mindless sheeple spewing the same dangerous garbage.

Yes, let's get our undies in a bundle because some people are American and refuse to give up liberty for security.

How are you gentlemen and your families liking the training session? Stay inside, do as we say or the big bad virus is going to get you! Dont worry, we will provide food for you too, maybe.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/covid-19-crisis-heaps-pressure-nation-s-food-banks-n1178731

It's the same click that will be more than willing to be friends with Bill Gates when he rolls out his version of papers. I'm sure "the forum click" is well aware of what is still coming. Any other President, we would have been under by now. 
https://www.strategic-culture.org/n...erings-may-not-return-without-global-vaccine/

They wont FORCE you to take it, of course not but they have plans for those individuals too.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wa...8/anthony-fauci-sets-stage-mandatory-vaccine/

I would be overly cautious of anyone vomiting the same numbers and the same stories seen on TV.

That's odd? Take Zinc weeks ago I mentioned. WoW, how did President Trump end up saying to take zinc and hydroxychloroquine? What in the world? Fauci says no to Trump even though Fauci worked effective treatments for viruses in the early 2010s that included hydroxychloroquine to push zinc into cells to literally fight off viruses.
https://nationalfile.com/president-...fauci-has-a-100-million-conflict-of-interest/

Haha! That's funny! It's almost like "they" dont want to fix the virus like this guy, https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7.c...-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

Matter of fact, it's almost like the forum click wants to destroy our God given American liberties silencing the obvious. After all the click is wayyy more intelligent than a forward thinking Benjamin Franklin!!! Lmao.

Stay free people. Nevermind the drooling sheep, they have their vax pass and are conforming very well. LoL. 
What a joke.


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## Vanilla

It’s “clique” that you’re looking for there, Boogey man. Don’t worry, you’ll get it. 

PS- I haven’t seen a zombie yet. So I still feel like I’m ahead. 

PSS- A day in your world has to be wild!


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## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> It's "clique" that you're looking for there, Boogey man. Don't worry, you'll get it.
> 
> PS- I haven't seen a zombie yet. So I still feel like I'm ahead.
> 
> PSS- A day in your world has to be wild!


I didn't have Fauci being a Boogeyman on my radar but clearly that was a misstep on my part. That conspiracy is gaining a lot of steam.


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## goosefreak

backcountry said:


> I didn't have Fauci being a Boogeyman on my radar but clearly that was a misstep on my part. That conspiracy is gaining a lot of steam.


Believe it or not, and I know you wont but, your Tin hat is bigger then all of ours.. but, thats about the only thing


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## backcountry

Seems about right


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## goosefreak

and you will alway. Backcountry. Afraid of your own shadow...


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