# Lee Kay open to hunting?



## Utmuddguy

Guess they're letting people hunt it for the youth hunt. Thought it was closed. Guess it's only open to a select few because their private duck clubs won't allow youth hunting.


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## Fowlmouth

Is it open for everyone? I always thought there was no hunting allowed at Lee Kay, at least according to the signs. Well maybe I will head to Lee Kay with the kids. It might be a good choice for the regular opener too. I have had my eye on the big pond close to the dump for years now.


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## Utmuddguy

If your a local pro staffer waterfowl superstar and you don't want to take kids to the duck club and spoil your opener the state will let ya turn Lee Kay into a private club


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## utahgolf

great, now the duck hunters will ruin the fishing!!!!!! :grin:


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## Citori20ga

I don't know, but it sounds like Utmuddguy is trying to stir a pot???


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## Utmuddguy

This is just a heads up that much of the Lee Kay grounds will be closed to dog training on Saturday, 9/19/2015, due to a youth hunting event. There are notices up by the gates. They do not plan to use the West side of the grounds and expect to finish early afternoon.

Renee Pennington

Rights right


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## Utmuddguy

Citori20ga said:


> I don't know, but it sounds like Utmuddguy is trying to stir a pot???


Considering your one of the chosen few who won't take your youth hunters to your private club so you'll be at Lee Kay that comment is to be expected what club do you belong to Rob? The Harrison? This is state land and the opportunity to hunt it should be open to all or be closed to all.


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## Citori20ga

You may want to get your facts straight before you start pointing fingers.

This hunt was created BY the DWR. For kids that won a contest put on by the DWR. There are 4 kids involved. A few individuals were invited by the DWR to guide these kids with calling and decoys because they know what they are doing and can mentor these kids in a great way. 

Hunting at a club was NEVER asked for. Any of us would be more than willing to take these kids out elsewhere and show them a great time, all while teaching them the right way to hunt waterfowl and to respect the resource.

Maybe if you were willing to step up and give back to the resource like the mentors do, you could be a part of such an event. Now quit stirring up trouble, and try to be a good example of what a true waterfowler is, and for the young kids that are the future of our sport...


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## Fowlmouth

What contest? Just curious......
This is the only contest I was aware of........
http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1674-guided-waterfowl-hunt-for-young-hunters.html


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## Utmuddguy

Citori20ga said:


> You may want to get your facts straight before you start pointing fingers.
> 
> This hunt was created BY the DWR. For kids that won a contest put on by the DWR. There are 4 kids involved. A few individuals were invited by the DWR to guide these kids with calling and decoys because they know what they are doing and can mentor these kids in a great way.
> 
> Hunting at a club was NEVER asked for. Any of us would be more than willing to take these kids out elsewhere and show them a great time, all while teaching them the right way to hunt waterfowl and to respect the resource.
> 
> Maybe if you were willing to step up and give back to the resource like the mentors do, you could be a part of such an event. Now quit stirring up trouble, and try to be a good example of what a true waterfowler is, and for the young kids that are the future of our sport...[/quote
> 
> From the same "contest" I'll be taking a total of 5 kids but unlike you I volunteered and didn't have to be asked. Regardless of how they were selected everyone should have equal opportunity on public land.


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## Utmuddguy

front hunter said:


> alot of us do give back. but we dont feel like we need recognition for it or brag about it on social media or a local hunting forum..... just saying.
> 
> i personally think the mentor thing is a program that gets abused. some of these "unfortunate kids" have their own duck boats sitting in their garages at home. their parents just use this as an excuse for people to show them where their own personal honey holes are.... yes i am speaking from personal experience.


Yep got one going out Saturday asked if he could bring his own duck boat.
I couldn't agree more about the look at me attitude it's getting really old. None of these guys volunteered until the DWR made it easy for them rumor has it their even getting blinds built for them. When it was dragging a kid through the mud it was too much work but driving out to a blind behind a locked gate well that's not too bad so they are now volunteers and are deserving of your gratitude. I'll make sure I follow your example in the future.


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## Citori20ga

I rest my case...


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## Utmuddguy

Citori20ga said:


> I rest my case...


Yep just like you rested when they were begging for mentors a month ago I'm glad they finally made a sweet enough deal you stepped up.


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## Fowlmouth

I thought the original post was a pre-season joke and then find out it is NOT. I have some concerns. I at least hope the 4 kids that were "chosen" are in no way related to the mentors. Those kids should be taken to a private club or a WMA like the rest of the mentored youth. I don't know of any DWR contest, someone please fill me in.


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## Spry Yellowdog

I had to do it the old fashioned way. Volunteer to take a kid and his mentor out on public land hunt. And maybe get a thank you from the kid in the end.

So is it implied that since I was not asked but volunteered, I can't use decoys and calls properly and have no ethics?

Spry


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## LostLouisianian

Citori20ga said:


> You may want to get your facts straight before you start pointing fingers.
> 
> This hunt was created BY the DWR. For kids that won a contest put on by the DWR. There are 4 kids involved. A few individuals were invited by the DWR to guide these kids with calling and decoys because they know what they are doing and can mentor these kids in a great way.
> 
> Hunting at a club was NEVER asked for. Any of us would be more than willing to take these kids out elsewhere and show them a great time, all while teaching them the right way to hunt waterfowl and to respect the resource.
> 
> Maybe if you were willing to step up and give back to the resource like the mentors do, you could be a part of such an event. Now quit stirring up trouble, and try to be a good example of what a true waterfowler is, and for the young kids that are the future of our sport...


Please show us the advertisement or link to this "public contest" that these lucky kids won. That would put an end to the debate really quick don't you think?


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## LostLouisianian

Utmuddguy said:


> Yep got one going out Saturday asked if he could bring his own duck boat.
> I couldn't agree more about the look at me attitude it's getting really old. None of these guys volunteered until the DWR made it easy for them rumor has it their even getting blinds built for them. When it was dragging a kid through the mud it was too much work but driving out to a blind behind a locked gate well that's not too bad so they are now volunteers and are deserving of your gratitude. I'll make sure I follow your example in the future.


Are you serious. I mean that is just not right. If your dad or grandpa has a boat they should be taking you out and leaving the kids who don't have that opportunity to be mentored. I don't have a boat and neither does my son but I can assure you if I did I would be taking my grandson and another kid then taking another kid for the afternoon hunt, I wouldn't be putting my grandson like I did in the draw. And I danged sure would never go to someone elses honey hole they showed my grandson on a mentored hunt. I hope things go "right" for us this year and that I will have a boat next year.


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## LostLouisianian

front hunter said:


> You dont NEED a boat go hunt ducks in Utah..... It's crazy how many opportunites people can have on foot. Infact, I dare say that hunting on foot will produce better shoots these days, especially when on a WMA


We've been hunting on foot on WMA's here for about 5 years now. I prefer hunting out of a boat since that's how I cut my teeth on duck hunting some 52 years ago.


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## king eider

Citori20ga said:


> I rest my case...


I see your point! One of the reasons I withdrew from being involved. Hunters, particularly Waterfowlers eat their own.... Can't be appreciative of one thing someone else does, wether big or small. Folks beat their chest and belittle like this is a scourge on our sport.


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## Gunner73

king eider said:


> I see your point! One of the reasons I withdrew from being involved. Hunters, particularly Waterfowlers eat their own.... Can't be appreciative of one thing someone else does, wether big or small. Folks beat their chest and belittle like this is a scourge on our sport.


Agreed!! These guys are poor examples of how a mentor should act. It's about the kids who cares where or how you take a kid hunting, the important thing is to be a good example and teach them the the right way to do things..


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## LostLouisianian

jb1 said:


> Agreed!! These guys are poor examples of how a mentor should act. It's about the kids who cares where or how you take a kid hunting, the important thing is to be a good example and teach them the the right way to do things..


Keep in mind gentlemen that no one is bashing the kids here. The issue is primarily that there is a hunt on "chosen property" that was "given" to 4 kids and apparently no other kids had a legitimate opportunity at that hunt. Also one specific individual had declined to participate in the youth mentored hunt until the "right" situation was presented to him. I believe those are the issues. Now if someone can point us ALL to a website or public posting that proves this "chosen" hunt was available to all the kids equally then I think that will eliminate the issues, however that has yet to be done and in my opinion that flat out stinks if there was no equal opportunity for all kids to have the same shot at this hunt.

I am sure you would agree with these points right? I mean, after all, you are saying it's about the KIDS and ALL KIDS right???


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## Gunner73

LostLouisianian said:


> Keep in mind gentlemen that no one is bashing the kids here. The issue is primarily that there is a hunt on "chosen property" that was "given" to 4 kids and apparently no other kids had a legitimate opportunity at that hunt. Also one specific individual had declined to participate in the youth mentored hunt until the "right" situation was presented to him. I believe those are the issues. Now if someone can point us ALL to a website or public posting that proves this "chosen" hunt was available to all the kids equally then I think that will eliminate the issues, however that has yet to be done and in my opinion that flat out stinks if there was no equal opportunity for all kids to have the same shot at this hunt.
> 
> I am sure you would agree with these points right? I mean, after all, you are saying it's about the KIDS and ALL KIDS right???


Yep it's about the kids. So like I said take them out and teach them the right way of doing things.


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## dkhntrdstn

OK i was going to stay out of this but i cant keep my mouth shut. I know for a fact t *Citori20ga would take young kids out. but he has not been in town to do that at the hunt time. For the clubs some clubs DO NOT LET ANY ANY BUDDY HUNT IT FOR THE YOUTH HUNT. But for some of you it sounds like you are pissed off that you are not hunting the lee kay ponds.If you really think about it guys those ponds are going to be a 5 min shoot for those kids. first gun shot those ducks geese are gone for the day and wont be back. The dwr put it on and asked for help. they asked people that has helped in on other stuff and they knew they was going to get the help they need from them.

for utmuddy if i guy asked me if he could bring his boat. I would say sure but you are not coming with me and i would make a phone call and the the people running the program know his name and what going on and ask for some body else.

good luck on staurday 
*


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## Utmuddguy

dkhntrdstn said:


> OK i was going to stay out of this but i cant keep my mouth shut. I know for a fact t *Citori20ga would take young kids out. but he has not been in town to do that at the hunt time. For the clubs some clubs DO NOT LET ANY ANY BUDDY HUNT IT FOR THE YOUTH HUNT. But for some of you it sounds like you are pissed off that you are not hunting the lee kay ponds.If you really think about it guys those ponds are going to be a 5 min shoot for those kids. first gun shot those ducks geese are gone for the day and wont be back. The dwr put it on and asked for help. they asked people that has helped in on other stuff and they knew they was going to get the help they need from them.
> 
> for utmuddy if i guy asked me if he could bring his boat. I would say sure but you are not coming with me and i would make a phone call and the the people running the program know his name and what going on and ask for some body else.
> 
> good luck on staurday
> *


Made the call told we were committed now.


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## dkhntrdstn

Utmuddguy said:


> Made the call told we were committed now.


then take them some where else and not ton your spot.


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## Utmuddguy

Won't need secret spots for Saturday


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## Gunner73

What is the point of this thread? So a few kids are hunting Lee Kay who cares!!! My son doesn't get to hunt there and im not bitchin about it. You guys are mentors, take the kids out and show them a good time. Every kid in this state has the same opportunity on Saturday to hunt waterfowl do you think they care where they hunt? No! They just want the opportunity to have a good time.


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## LostLouisianian

dkhntrdstn said:


> then take them some where else and not ton your spot.


Absolutely. The kids just want a chance to shoot a few times. Honestly if I had a boat I wouldn't take them to my favorite spot but would make sure they had the chance to get some birds. Too many hunters nowadays are looking for someone else spot to hunt in without doing their own legwork. Back a long time ago when I took friends out hunting I never had to worry about anyone coming back to my spot. Today it's a lot different I suppose than it was 40 years ago. The way I was raised was simply you NEVER went to a spot that someone took you hunting to, that was the biggest NO NO there was. You might return to an area say the WMA in general but you never went anywhere near the spot you were taken to hunt at, bad form.


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## Gunner73

Take them out and teach them proper technique and hunting ethics. Give them the opportunity to harvest a few birds, that is all they want.


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## Fowlmouth

Utmuddguy said:


> This is state land and the opportunity to hunt it should be open to all or be closed to all.


That's the bottom line right there, and I think this is the main point. Would some of you feel differently about it if this was Farmington Bay and only a handful of kids were allowed in? Think about it.


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## Gunner73

Fowlmouth said:


> That's the bottom line right there, and I think this is the main point. Would some of you feel differently about it if this was Farmington Bay and only a handful of kids were allowed in? Think about it.


It's not Farmington Bay so let's stop blowing this out of proportion,put your big boy pants on and remember it's about the kids! The kids don't care where they hunt, they just want to hunt..


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## Utmuddguy

There is no difference Lee Kay is a conservation area just like Farmington


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## Gunner73

The point is you seem to have a problem with a few kids hunting Lee Kay. The point is the kids don't care where they hunt, you are a mentor not the Hunter. Take the kids that you volunteered to take and show them a good time.. There are 4 kids hunting Lee Kay that will get a few shots then the birds are gone! I feel sorry for those kids as they will have a very short hunt.


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## Utmuddguy

No problem with hunting it just a problem with how they decided who could and who could not mostly the could not.


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## Gunner73

Who cares!! You have lost sight of the point of the youth hunt and the mentor program.


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## Utmuddguy

So the kids selected by the DWR (not a draw) have more right to public land than a father that takes his kid out on the youth hunt for the first time? I probably spend more time at Lee Kay then anyone here and I personally wouldn't hunt it. It's the fact that if average joe showed up Saturday with his kid he'd be cited and fined while the others are allowed its nothing more than a draw area without the draw.


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## Gunner73

It's Lee Kay man I highly doubt there are many dads that really care. Those kids chosen don't have any better shot of shooting birds than anyone else. As a father I could care less! Congrats to those chosen! It's a big state with plenty of opportunity, you seem to have a personal issue with this Lee Kay hunt for some reason..


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## utahgolf

I bet they hammer the geese out there! I would like to see blinds out at lee kay and then people able to bid on them at an expo. Same thing at the regular marshes.


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## Utmuddguy

Yep let's let the DWR decide who hunts public land. In fact maybe they can auction off all the units of Farmington Bay and the other WMAs on a yearly basis. Or even better yet give them all to our local organizations and let them generate revenue from the trespass fees. Already happened with the big game. Maybe we could call the group in charge sportsman for waterfowl.


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## Gunner73

If you guys and your little clubs keep fighting over everything that's exactly what will happen.


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## Utmuddguy

Guess you didn't see the sarcasm. I used to support some of the local clubs but it's always the same story every time start out with good intentions then take advantage of everything and everyone. If we get draw blinds it will be because of them and our allowing them to do things like Lee Kay it's always for the greater good just ask em.


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## wileywapati

First Limited Entry Waterfowl area. Great!!:?


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## .45

Good luck to the few that can make it out there. Unless this weather brings some birds in, there won't be a lot to shoot at. Most of the summer has been mostly pelicans, cormorants, heron's and terns. Not too many ducks or geese lately. The geese, believe it or not, spend a lot of time on the landfill north of the ponds, at least in the mornings.


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## Fowlmouth

Fowlmouth said:


> What contest? Just curious......
> This is the only contest I was aware of........
> http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1674-guided-waterfowl-hunt-for-young-hunters.html


Still waiting for an answer. What contest?


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## lunkerhunter2

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1674-guided-waterfowl-hunt-for-young-hunters.html


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## willfish4food

.45 said:


> The geese, believe it or not, spend a lot of time on the landfill north of the ponds, at least in the mornings.


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## dkhntrdstn

wileywapati said:


> First Limited Entry Waterfowl area. Great!!:?


you are wrong on this my friend.


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## Utmuddguy

dkhntrdstn said:


> you are wrong on this my friend.


No he's not take a bunch of kids to Lee Kay Saturday and see if they're ok with it.


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## dkhntrdstn

Utmuddguy said:


> No he's not take a bunch of kids to Lee Kay Saturday and see if they're ok with it.


yes he is. dude i think you are just pissed because you are not getting on there to hunt. good hell man grow up. all of the kids had a chance to get picked for the hunt.Lee Kay is the one that wanted to hold the hunt out there. No body else.So Maybe you need get off your bitch box and know what going on before you start ****.All you do on here any more is start crap and bitch about everything.


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## Utmuddguy

Fowlminded started the idea during their waterfowl clinic.


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## Gunner73

Utmuddguy said:


> Fowlminded started the idea during their waterfowl clinic.


Your little club started the idea and you are pissed? Why, because you aren't hunting out there maybe..


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## Utmuddguy

Nothing to do with me.


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## dkhntrdstn

Utmuddguy said:


> Fowlminded started the idea during their waterfowl clinic.


ok then why are you bring bring other people in to it when they got asked to help set people up to help the kids on the hunt ? It sounds like you need to go to fowlminded and ask them these kinda questions.


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## WTRFWLN

*kids at Lee Kay.*

So no one here has done there homework on this susposed "favored kids" hunt????

here is UTmuddguy quote!!
"No problem with hunting it just a problem with how they decided who could and who could not mostly the could not."

Here is your answer. I spoke with the OFFICIALS on this topic just today. Here is there answer." The CO's went throught the DWR contest applications. "that I didnt ask which one" I didnt care. They went through and picked out 4 Kids that have Physcial hadicaps and Invited them on the hunt? That way they can have full control over them in a controled stable area? "LEE KAY center has been trying to get this approved for many years over 5 years that I have been involved with myself along with other associations? I think after they have involved these SPECIAL KIDS they finally approved a TEST YEAR. LEE KAY is the perfect spot for this type of hunt. I know nobody will agrue that if they have spent 5 minutes around the dog training area. If this works out they want to include some different types of waterfowl hunts like the disabled vetrans type hunt and so on. They have full Handicap Access to most of the the areas there for any type of wheel chair. And yes they are making mobile blinds for the "SPECIAL KIDS" that were unfairly chosen???????

So UTmuddguy here is your answer. I sure with your type of attitude you still wont agree with them cause your left out???


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## Utmuddguy

If it's truly handicapped kids I have no problem with the hunt and fully support it. If that's the case it should be a season wide thing. Funny none of the mentors seem to know this as one of them is bragging how he secured Lee Kay for the youth hunt. That being said it should be an open application for a handicapped area advertised with equal opportunity for all handicapped kids.


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## dkhntrdstn

Utmuddguy said:


> If it's truly handicapped kids I have no problem with the hunt and fully support it. If that's the case it should be a season wide thing. Funny none of the mentors seem to know this as one of them is bragging how he secured Lee Kay for the youth hunt


 who bragging about secured lee Kay?


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## Fowlmouth

WTRFWLN said:


> "LEE KAY center has been trying to get this approved for many years over 5 years that I have been involved with myself along with other associations?


So which group are you involved with? Just curious........


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## Utmuddguy

Fowlmouth said:


> So which group are you involved with? Just curious........


None think they are all acting in their best interest.


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## WTRFWLN

*LEE KAY*

It was brought up for a YOUTH, dissable person hunt. That was the intent. There were many Associtations that volenteered. We had many of the dog groups both upland and retrievers group volenteer to help in many ways, Blinds, areas, dog work, food, mentors, decoys and so on. They are the ones maitaining the areas along with the DWR. The Conservations Officers actually got involved on this years hunt and pushed it through? I think that is why they approved it. TO TRY AND KEEP AS MUCH POLITICS out of it as possible. 
That is what I got out of it today! I see this as a great oppertunity for these less fourtnate. I just hope they can keep the people out that think they deserve to be included that have oppertunity else where. This could be a special thing for alot of people if they can do that?


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## Fowlmouth

WTRFWLN said:


> We had many of the dog groups both upland and retrievers group volenteer to help in many ways, Blinds, areas, dog work, food, mentors, decoys and so on. ?


You keep talking 3rd person and then you say things like "WE HAD" If you were involved with this for 5 years then you must be involved with a group. So which group do you represent?


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## Utmuddguy

WTRFWLN said:


> It was brought up for a YOUTH, dissable person hunt. That was the intent. There were many Associtations that volenteered. We had many of the dog groups both upland and retrievers group volenteer to help in many ways, Blinds, areas, dog work, food, mentors, decoys and so on. They are the ones maitaining the areas along with the DWR. The Conservations Officers actually got involved on this years hunt and pushed it through? I think that is why they approved it. TO TRY AND KEEP AS MUCH POLITICS out of it as possible.
> That is what I got out of it today! I see this as a great oppertunity for these less fourtnate. I just hope they can keep the people out that think they deserve to be included that have oppertunity else where. This could be a special thing for alot of people if they can do that?


Agreed but the nature of the of the mentored hunt application discouraged handicapped hunter applications it should be an application process of its own making it clear its for special needs/handicapped kids and will not require waders and physically limiting factors.


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## Fowlmouth

So how did they know the kids were disabled? I don't think anywhere on the Youth Hunt application there was a box to check.


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## Utmuddguy

It does say waders are required bet lots of handicapped kids were open to that.


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## LostLouisianian

If it is for the disabled kids then that's great. I personally don't recall anything on the application form I filled out online for my grandson where it asked if he had any special needs or disability though. However I do suffer from advanced CRS and it could have been there.


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## WTRFWLN

*Utmuddguy/FM*

This year is a "TEST YEAR". I asked the questions and these are the answers I recieved back. The conservations officers seemed to take this over. Im just glad they can use this great resource for something that benifits these people. I am an avid waterfowler hunter and have 1 healthy child. He loves to shoot birds and loves to eat them! "wrapped in bacon of coarse!". Fowl I used to hang around a few of the dog groups but now im a duck hunter without a retirever right now. Im not an active member anymore cause the boy growing up has taken up a lot of my time. So thats why Im not at liberty to talk for these guys.

Hope everybody has a awesome youth day and season. My boy is 16 and dosent get that day anymore? So my friend is taking the boat out with his 2 kids this year? That is something I will miss spending that 30 minutes in the boat before he limits out?


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## wileywapati

Hey I have no problem with any kid hunting Lee Kay. Able bodied or physically disadvantaged. 

It still does not change the FACT that this hunt is not open to all. Making this hunt area exactly what I said, LIMITED ENTRY. It's a fact that can't be argued.

I can't argue the nobility and intentions behind this, honestly I believe those involved have the best of intentions and thank them for providing this chance to these kids. The precedent this may set and the exclusion of so many is what I can't get with.
It's the camels nose under the tent.


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## Fowlmouth

If this hunt is going to be a short 5 minute hunt then why in the world put so much effort into it? (building blinds) A better hunt would be to drive the East dike at Farmington Bay over to the Fullenkamp unit and let those disabled kids shoot birds all day. I mean how hard could it be to get permission to drive one truck with 4 disabled kids and 4 mentors on a dirt road. I would think it was much more difficult getting permission to hunt a CLOSED TO HUNTING area (Lee Kay). Special privileges for special people I suppose....And I am not talking about the kids.


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## Utmuddguy

I find it interesting that they found 4 disabled kids in the applications that did not ask about disabilities and also why wouldn't the mentors know?


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## duckdevil

LostLouisianian said:


> Absolutely. The kids just want a chance to shoot a few times. Honestly if I had a boat I wouldn't take them to my favorite spot but would make sure they had the chance to get some birds. Too many hunters nowadays are looking for someone else spot to hunt in without doing their own legwork. Back a long time ago when I took friends out hunting I never had to worry about anyone coming back to my spot. Today it's a lot different I suppose than it was 40 years ago. The way I was raised was simply you NEVER went to a spot that someone took you hunting to, that was the biggest NO NO there was. You might return to an area say the WMA in general but you never went anywhere near the spot you were taken to hunt at, bad form.


Sir,

While I agree with you in regards to not tramping on someone's "spot", why on earth would you not take these to the VERY BEST location that you know of in order to have the opportunity to have great memories with their role models. 
Years ago I had a gentlemen take my father and I out to the Millionaire Duck Club in order to fill our swan tags. Not everyone in the neighborhood was invited to go, just my father and I. I truly will never forget that day. Those memories were not about slaying swans, but spending an awesome day in the marsh with the 2 men that were my role models in addition to it being the first time I had ever set foot on a mud boat. My point is, we ALL need to put the youngsters in the best position to make memories.. not kill birds.


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## duckdevil

They call me the thread killer.


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## Utmuddguy

duckdevil said:


> Sir,
> 
> While I agree with you in regards to not tramping on someone's "spot", why on earth would you not take these to the VERY BEST location that you know of in order to have the opportunity to have great memories with their role models.
> Years ago I had a gentlemen take my father and I out to the Millionaire Duck Club in order to fill our swan tags. Not everyone in the neighborhood was invited to go, just my father and I. I truly will never forget that day. Those memories were not about slaying swans, but spending an awesome day in the marsh with the 2 men that were my role models in addition to it being the first time I had ever set foot on a mud boat. My point is, we ALL need to put the youngsters in the best position to make memories.. not kill birds.


Sorry but when the kids dad insists on following us out in his own mud boat and asks how many decoys he should bring he's just looking for a better spot.


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## Hawk87

duckdevil said:


> Sir,
> 
> While I agree with you in regards to not tramping on someone's "spot", why on earth would you not take these to the VERY BEST location that you know of in order to have the opportunity to have great memories with their role models.
> Years ago I had a gentlemen take my father and I out to the Millionaire Duck Club in order to fill our swan tags. Not everyone in the neighborhood was invited to go, just my father and I. I truly will never forget that day. Those memories were not about slaying swans, but spending an awesome day in the marsh with the 2 men that were my role models in addition to it being the first time I had ever set foot on a mud boat. My point is, we ALL need to put the youngsters in the best position to make memories.. not kill birds.


I am going to regret this, but I will jump in.

There is a huge difference between someone taking you to a private duck club, and a government agency opening PUBLIC land to a select group of people for hunting. Having what are essentially limited entry areas for waterfowl is a slippery slope that we don't want to go down.

I am all for kids having good memories, but that is what the mentor program is all about. Public land that is normally closed shouldn't be used to give a select group of kids "great memories", but be closed to others. If you want to open it to all kids for them to get "great memories", then great, I can get behind that. But it shouldn't just be a select few.

Sure this hunt is supposedly for disable kids, and that's great, but the question was never answered of how they were selected. Why wasn't this opportunity open to all disable kids that want to go? Why just these? What was the selection process to determine which kids got to go?

I don't know the mentors involved, so I won't go down that road, but I am really not ok with public land being used to basically give these kids a private hunt. *It should be open to all, or closed to all* If you want Lee Kay to be for disabled kids, fine, but it should be all disabled kids.


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## Hawk87

Utmuddguy said:


> Sorry but when the kids dad insists on following us out in his own mud boat and asks how many decoys he should bring he's just looking for a better spot.


That is just ridiculous. This is why we can't have nice things.


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## Utmuddguy

I think the disabled kids thing is a little suspicious.


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## Hawk87

Utmuddguy said:


> I think the disabled kids thing is a little suspicious.


I can see where you are coming from. To be fair though, there is a precedent, with blinds at Farmington bay being reserved for disabled hunters. That is of course based on the assumption that this hunt really is for disabled kids.

What I find suspicious is the lack of transparency in how these kids were selected. That question has never really been answered.


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## LostLouisianian

Hawk87 said:


> I can see where you are coming from. To be fair though, there is a precedent, with blinds at Farmington bay being reserved for disabled hunters. That is of course based on the assumption that this hunt really is for disabled kids.
> 
> What I find suspicious is the lack of transparency in how these kids were selected. That question has never really been answered.


I have been digging into this diligently and the claim that it is for disabled kids is totally false. I am VERY disappointed that someone would come in here and DELIBERATELY lie in order to deflect the criticism. This hunt has NOTHING to do with disabled kids...and the next person that comes on here and says to deal with it, it's about the kids....can go pound sand. It isn't about the kids, it's about their own ego. If it was about the kids they would be taking the kids where everyone else is taking them and not having a "PRIVATE" hunt where they have secured access that no other kids had the opportunity to put in for, on PUBLIC owned land. Private hunts on public land are not sportsmanlike at all.


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## Hawk87

LostLouisianian said:


> I have been digging into this diligently and the claim that it is for disabled kids is totally false. I am VERY disappointed that someone would come in here and DELIBERATELY lie in order to deflect the criticism. This hunt has NOTHING to do with disabled kids...and the next person that comes on here and says to deal with it, it's about the kids....can go pound sand. It isn't about the kids, it's about their own ego. If it was about the kids they would be taking the kids where everyone else is taking them and not having a "PRIVATE" hunt where they have secured access that no other kids had the opportunity to put in for, on PUBLIC owned land. Private hunts on public land are not sportsmanlike at all.


Wow, do you mind me asking where you found that it wasn't disabled kids? Not that I don't believe you, but I like to have my sources strait.


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## dkhntrdstn

the kids where picked just like all of the other kids.


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## LostLouisianian

Hawk87 said:


> Wow, do you mind me asking where you found that it wasn't disabled kids? Not that I don't believe you, but I like to have my sources strait.


I actually have confirmed it with 3 sources. I prefer to keep their names confidential. One of the sources personally knows one of the kids going and he is not disabled.


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## Hawk87

dkhntrdstn said:


> the kids where picked just like all of the other kids.


I know tone is hard to communicate in a text format, so understand that I just want to understand exactly what is going on. I have never been involved in the mentor program. Please read this post with the tone of honestly wanting to know.

Why were these kids selected to hunt Lee Kay, when everyone else hunts public land? Is it because the guides they are with somehow got permission to take them there, and if that's the case, how did the guides get permission to hunt Lee Kay? Was there some kind of draw, or mitigating circumstances that factored into the decision? Mostly though, why wasn't everyone given the chance to take youth hunters they were mentoring there?

Like I said, I really just want to know. I am a big believer in transparency in government, and hunting is part of that.


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## dkhntrdstn

Hawk87 said:


> I know tone is hard to communicate in a text format, so understand that I just want to understand exactly what is going on. I have never been involved in the mentor program. Please read this post with the tone of honestly wanting to know.
> 
> Why were these kids selected to hunt Lee Kay, when everyone else hunts public land? Is it because the guides they are with somehow got permission to take them there, and if that's the case, how did the guides get permission to hunt Lee Kay? Was there some kind of draw, or mitigating circumstances that factored into the decision? Mostly though, why wasn't everyone given the chance to take youth hunters they were mentoring there?
> 
> Like I said, I really just want to know. I am a big believer in transparency in government, and hunting is part of that.


Alright. the kids got pulled from the same as the other kids did for the mentor program. There are only four kids hunting out there with four mentor adults. They will also have a co out there with them and watching everyt move they make. They are only hunting four ponds one kid per pond.All kids had a chance get picked for this hunt.


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## WTRFWLN

*LEE KAY*

Like I said before, I went to the source and got my info! And I related it back to you guys. They told me the COs were choosing kids with disabilites and did have at least one bow out, and they went back and reviewed the kids to try and find the next least able kid. Where it went from there without feeling like a total CREEPER trying to SPY on disabled kids, thats as far as I took it? Even if they are taking out 4 perfectly able kids that dont have the opperunities of the kids that have been rasied by hunting families. So if it is a single parent kids living with their Mom, Im still perfectly good with it??? So lets keep complaining about this so they will just do away with it!!! That is the problem here is that everbody that dosent get choosen complains because their child didnt get the chance, but goes 5-10 times a year with their parents. "Its just not fair". Hell lets just get rid of the mentor program all together!! That would make it better for us in the long run right? Less compitition and therefore less work to shoot ducks? I can see where this whole thing is going now???????

Thats all from me, Im out! Just tried to shed some light with all the speculation from all the complainers!!!!


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## LostLouisianian

WTRFWLN said:


> Like I said before, I went to the source and got my info! And I related it back to you guys. They told me the COs were choosing kids with disabilites and did have at least one bow out, and they went back and reviewed the kids to try and find the next least able kid. Where it went from there without feeling like a total CREEPER trying to SPY on disabled kids, thats as far as I took it? Even if they are taking out 4 perfectly able kids that dont have the opperunities of the kids that have been rasied by hunting families. So if it is a single parent kids living with their Mom, Im still perfectly good with it??? So lets keep complaining about this so they will just do away with it!!! That is the problem here is that everbody that dosent get choosen complains because their child didnt get the chance, but goes 5-10 times a year with their parents. "Its just not fair". Hell lets just get rid of the mentor program all together!! That would make it better for us in the long run right? Less compitition and therefore less work to shoot ducks? I can see where this whole thing is going now???????
> 
> Thats all from me, Im out! Just tried to shed some light with all the speculation from all the complainers!!!!


Hogwash...the application doesn't ask if you have disabilities or not. Name your source person then if you went to the "source". I have three sources that say this has nothing to do with disabilities and then I also have the application that says nothing about disabilities. No speculation here just FACT


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## WTRFWLN

"I actually have confirmed it with 3 sources. *I prefer to keep their names confidential. *One of the sources personally knows one of the kids going and he is not disabled." quote from lost.

He wants all his sources kept confidential but wants everybody else's sources?????????????

make perfect sense to me?????


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## Utmuddguy

spoke with the division today and sounds like there may be two different hunts going on at Lee Kay one was set up by a CO in the central region and the directors office has no idea how the kids were selected but thinks they may have disabilities. There was no draw and no open selection process and the management doesn't know anything but they were picked by a single CO. The other hunt sounds like has only mentor kids. Personally I think the whole story is a cover up. The office guy I talked to sure used the words "my understanding is" and "I don't know" a lot after his three hour quest for answers. Apparently this is the 2nd test year this same CO has hand picked participants.


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## Utmuddguy

dkhntrdstn said:


> Alright. the kids got pulled from the same as the other kids did for the mentor program. There are only four kids hunting out there with four mentor adults. They will also have a co out there with them and watching everyt move they make. They are only hunting four ponds one kid per pond.All kids had a chance get picked for this hunt.


All kids certainly did not have a chance to get
Picked there was no application for an exclusive public land hunt at Lee Kay where you get a pond all to yourself for the day. This is a limited public land hunt where the participants are hand picked all brought to you by Fowlminded and Ducks Unlimited (at least the heads of Utah sections of these) in partnership with a couple of people from the division of wildlife resources.


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## CaptainJack

Utmuddguy, I am not sure why you have taken such moral conviction about the mentors and the groups asked to participate. Fact is the DWR/DNR asked both DU and Fowl Minded for help in guiding a youth hunt. DU and Fowl Minded did not select nor did they have anything to do with the process in selecting the youth or youth hunters for the event. Further DU and Fowl Minded did not select the location of such hunt or have anything to do with opening this area for the youth hunt. This was simply about the kids and a little fun. Neither DU or Fowl Minded was waiting for the "right opportunity" to mentor, that notion is unwarranted and false. If you think either DU or Fowl Minded makes decisions for the DWR/DNR, you're surely mislead.


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## dkhntrdstn

Utmuddguy said:


> All kids certainly did not have a chance to get
> Picked there was no application for an exclusive public land hunt at Lee Kay where you get a pond all to yourself for the day. This is a limited public land hunt where the participants are hand picked all brought to you by Fowlminded and Ducks Unlimited (at least the heads of Utah sections of these) in partnership with a couple of people from the division of wildlife resources.


did all of the kids that put there name in for the mentor hunt? Yes they did. so they all had a chance to get picked for that hunt out there. Du had nothing to do with picking the kids they got asked to help with the kids. So they did. So maybe you need to get off your dang high horse and relax and be glad there people out there stepping up to help with the kids.


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## Utmuddguy

The governors office is looking into who and why so im sure we'll find out what happened.


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## dkhntrdstn

Utmuddguy said:


> The governors office is looking into who and why so im sure we'll find out what happened.


im pretty it they already know what was going on.


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## Stimmy

Utmuddguy said:


> The governors office is looking into who and why so im sure we'll find out what happened.


Seems like a waste of time, money, and resources. :sad:


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## Utmuddguy

Actually per the division what happened and what was approved are two completely different things. The region approved a handicapped hunt. According to an official in their office they are now aware that's not what happened and do not condone what was done and how it came to be. You can try all you want to justify it but it was inappropriate.


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## LostLouisianian

Mud guy you nailed it. Mudguy and I had a conversation last week where he confided some things to me and he absolutely nailed it 1,000% based on some of the comments and commentors that are on here AFTER we had our conversation, this tells me one thing conclusively. Mudguy knows exactly what went on and he is trying to say it very politely without pointing out specific people in public. Dude you nailed it, exactly what you told me would happen has happened since our conversation. 

And by the way, no sour grapes here because my grandson had an outstanding youth mentored hunt on Saturday thanks to an awesome guy from Wasatch Wigeons by the name of Jody Hendricks. Big shout out to Jody, Trevor and of course, Thor the wonder dog!!!!


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## dkhntrdstn

i just have to laugh that this now i put two and two together.


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## shaner

Any new details concerning this issue?


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## Hoopermat

Ok after 10 pages I demand to know what happened. 
I can handle the truth.


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## Utmuddguy

An officer from the DWR organized this as a hunt for handicapped youth apparently he was unable to find a single handicapped kid to hunt which is probably not surprised when your asking hospitals to help with kid selection for an event involving guns. So the hunt was changed without Lee Kay's or the division's knowledge or permission to a mentored hunt from Wyatts program. There were 3 or 4 kids that were allowed to hunt Lee Kay exclusively and other activities on the conservation area were shut down. 
I would as well as a lot of people who have called or contacted me had no problem with the original plan in fact Fowlmouth suggested this a while back for handicapped hunters.
The problem I do have is I personally asked a couple of the hand selected "mentors" to help with the mentor program when they were asking for help and they refused to have any thing to do with it. They know who they are and I have the conversation with one of them saved where he told me he would not help. I just as soon not name names but can if they would like. As soon as the division allows them onto Lee Kay and they don't have to go to the trouble of competing with everyone else they were heroic volunteers. One of these mentors told several people that he had set up a hunt on Lee Kay. I questioned this then and was told by this individual that "they hunted it last year so we're hunting it this year". I was later called by this individual asking if I'd seen blinds on Lee Kay. I told him I hadn't and he stated "They (DWR) are supposed to have blinds all set up for us." I told him I had not and he complained and said he hopes they do what they said they will. 
So as the rest of us that helped with the mentored program as well as the many people who take kids year after year are out on a public marsh doing our best to make a memorable day for kids these individuals are bragging about access to Lee Kay and not even having to build they own blinds. Apparently the truth is (from the CO) the individual doing the bragging had nothing to do with setting up the hunt. 
in the division's defense the salt lake office had no idea that this hunt had changed and continued to tell people this was a handicapped hunt and did not find out what really went on until after the hunt took place. No one would have even known it happened if it wasn't for some boasting by one individual. The division has made assurances it will not happen again.


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## Hoopermat

Who was the CO that set it up.


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## Utmuddguy

I'd rather not put it on here I sent ya a pm


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## Hoopermat

The youth hunt for me is more fun than the regular opener. I have had a chance the last six years to take groups of kids out. I love it something about teaching kids about hunting and seeing them get their first birds puts a smile on my face. I would hate to see anything change with our youth program. I would honestly miss it. This was the first year I didn't have both of my boats filled with kids. I've been on the east coast and didn't know if I would make it back. But we did get one boat out and had a great time. 

I'm a little mad at cabelas. They have had a sale on $15 buck Gardner call every year before and I have always bought a dozen of them and gave them to the kids I took out. But not this year.


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## LostLouisianian

Thanks for the straight scoop mud...I bet if they put their minds to it they could come up with a process and procedures to have a true disabled youth hunt at Lee Kay.


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## Utmuddguy

It's in the works


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## dkhntrdstn

laughing.


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## Utmuddguy

Anyone know the difference between a brown moser and a ****head??

It's depth perception.

Keep on keepin on Joe


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