# Your experiences with all copper ammo.



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I've heard that some people have experienced subpar accuracy with the mono bullets. Other people say they have worked great. I've picked up a couple free boxes of 180 grain TTSX for the '06 the last few years by hunting the Zion unit and getting vouchers from the Condor people. I tried shooting one box out of my dad's old .30-06 and the accuracy was maddeningly horrible. But, then again, the gun was a Remington 742 woodsmaster that are notorious for lousy accuracy. This gun has shot well with a pet load of a 165 grain sierra game king my dad used to make for it, though. In your collective experience have the non-lead bullets produced better accuracy, worse accuracy, or approximately the same as its lead counterparts?

If any of you are interested in trading a box of .270 or .30-06 plain jane cup and core bullets for a box of 180 grain TTSX in .30-06 I might be interested.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I love them. My .340 Weatherby loves the Barnes 225 grain TSX bullet and will shoot sub moa at 200 yards all day long. My 7mm mag likes 140 grain TSX bullets. It has come to the point that they are the only ones that I'll shoot. 

Personally I think that the 180 grain ones are way too heavy to get any accuracy out of a 06 but then I could be wrong.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Tried lots of different kinds out of my 7STW, it was terrible. Greenbox Remington ammo would shoot .75" but XLCs would be +3". Terrible bullets. I'm back to Accubonds and Partitions and loving it.


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Some of my guns love copper bullets. Most prefer the Nosler variety over the Barnes.-----SS


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Critter said:


> I love them. My .340 Weatherby loves the Barnes 225 grain TSX bullet and will shoot sub moa at 200 yards all day long. My 7mm mag likes 140 grain TSX bullets. It has come to the point that they are the only ones that I'll shoot.
> 
> Personally I think that the 180 grain ones are way too heavy to get any accuracy out of a 06 but then I could be wrong.


Critter, why would the 180 grains be too heavy to get any accuracy out of an '06? Is it because the copper bullets have to be longer than regular bullets to achieve the same length making them excessively long?


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## Fishracer (Mar 2, 2009)

I agree about the 180s being to heavy. I shoot 150s out of my Tikka T3 30-06 and it is unbelievable on how accurate this gun is with that load. 
It is the heaviest load for a 270 (this is what my wife shoots) so its plenty of bullet for elk. I think some guys have the mind set that bigger is always better. I am just the opposite, I try to ring the flattest shooting bullet and alot of times it is one of the lighter loads.

I have always wondered what the silver bullets are all about? How do those compare to copper?


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Most guys I know shooting copper are shooting a smaller grain than they normally shoot with their cup and core bullets. You get virtually the same amount of bullet passing through the animal cause most lead bullets shed so much upon impact. Oh and their accuracy in their hand loads is under moa.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I shoot 130 TTSX out of my 308 with sub MOA, 110gr & 130gr TTSX out of .270 with sub MOA, 127gr LRX out of my .260 with sub MOA and 233 TSX & 250gr TTSX out of my .375 Ruger with sub MOA. I would never shoot a 180gr out of the 06 because the 150gr TTSX will do everything any 180gr will do. Not to mention the 180gr TTSX is a long bullet and some guns may have issues stabilizing them. I will admit cleaning the copper fouling out is quite the chore but I deal with it for the sake of accuracy and the ability of using a lighter bullet going faster.


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## Kevinitis (Jul 18, 2013)

I shoot barnes bullets and I have had great results. My 270 WSM shoots 140 grain bullets in 3/4 inch groups at 100 yrds and 130 grain bullets a little better than that. I have shot 4 elk and 5 antelope with those loads with devastating results with most of those shots being complete pass throughs. On a mature bull elk, I hit front leg bone and the bone was completely pulverized into sand, yet the bullet kept going into the chest cavity. And the one bullet I did retrieve still weighed 140 grains after the shot. Best of all, I don't have to worry about feeding my little kids meat with lead fragments in it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

My 338 LOVES the 210 gr TTSX factory ammo. I'd like to load up some 185 gr to see how it goes. 

My brother's 300 win mag like the 180 gr TSX over the 165 gr TTSX when I used it for a deer hunt in 2012. But both were acceptable for accuracy. The 180's were just exceptional in that gun. 

I love Barnes bullets. With the performance we've had I see no reason to ever use anything else.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Cool people shoot ETips.........just sayin-------SS


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

When I went to redeem my voucher at the St. Geo Sportsman's they had 168 and 180 grain TTSX bullets for the '06. Both times I got the 180 grainers. D'oh! You live, you learn. Oh well. Unless they end up banning the use of lead ammo I'll probably keep shooting the cheap cup and core stuff, anyway.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

My 300 WSM likes the 175 LRX best of all and second comes the Nosler Accubond 180. I like the results seen in the field too.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

My gun doesn't shoot the barnes very well. 
I went with the DoubleTap Nosler Accubonds this past year and love them.
FYI, DoubleTap is located right there in Cedar City.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

ridgetop said:


> My gun doesn't shoot the barnes very well.
> I went with the DoubleTap Nosler Accubonds this past year and love them.
> FYI, DoubleTap is located right there in Cedar City.


Yeah, I've looked at the DoubleTap website before and the ballistics on their bullets look awesome! I've read multiple accounts on the internet that the claimed velocities are grossly exaggerated, however.


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## fishreaper (Jan 2, 2014)

Where's the love for the Hornady GMX's?


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Yeah, I've looked at the DoubleTap website before and the ballistics on their bullets look awesome! I've read multiple accounts on the internet that the claimed velocities are grossly exaggerated, however.


Why should this be the case? Velocity stated on DT website is just a 100fps faster than the ammo directly from Barnes -- shouldn't that be possible? (I looked at the 150gr 30-06... )


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Yeah, I've looked at the DoubleTap website before and the ballistics on their bullets look awesome! I've read multiple accounts on the internet that the claimed velocities are grossly exaggerated, however.


I bought a box of DT at scheels last year and when I went back a couple weeks ago, they told me that they are no longer selling DT because too many people complaining about how "hot" the load was. 
Doesn't sound like exaggerating to me. 
It seems like most of the bad DT review were a few years ago and mainly on the handgun loads.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

SLCHunter said:


> Why should this be the case? Velocity stated on DT website is just a 100fps faster than the ammo directly from Barnes -- shouldn't that be possible? (I looked at the 150gr 30-06... )


Sure, but Mfgs are notorious for using long barrels at times in their test guns to get velocities a consumer will never see. Most people packing around their Remington M700 Sporter with a 22" barrel still claim velocites marked on their ammo box even though the MFG may have used a 26 or even 28" barrel.

At least in reloading manuals most of the better makers include barrel info in their reloading notes, the majority though use 26" barrels in testing.

-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

The chronograph is a mother.......... Anybody hear about the cool new Doppler chronograph coming out? No more screens and the ability to measure down range velocity for around $500.00. I'm in. Manufacturers claims will never be safe again.------SS


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## Fishhuntthendie (Feb 27, 2014)

*Experience with Barnes Bullets - Mono versus jacketed*

For what is is worth, I have shot quite a few of the Barnes all copper...X bullet, then XLC, TSX and ultimately settled with the TTSX...when I shoot all copper bullets. Your question was... non-lead bullets produced better accuracy, worse accuracy, or approximately the same as its lead counterparts?

I can't speak for the others (non-Barnes) but I have shot the Barnes in everything from .223 to 300 RUM and I have had great success with them on every animal I have shot with them. ( I don't work for Barnes, just field observations) I don't buy ammo so mine were all hand loads which is a caveat as you are shooting factory ammo and there are some quirks to accuracy with the all copper bullets (see below).

First, I was not as happy with the X bullet and the XLC in the accuracy department....average at best due to inconsistent velocity spreads from bullet to bullet. However, at least in the 10+ rifles I have loaded the TTSX with extensively (.260 (2), 6.5-284, 264 WM, 308, 30-06 (2), 300 WSM (2), 300 WM, 300 RUM, 7mmWSM, 7mm RM, etc.) they have all shot sub MOA groups with hand loads. The more accurate of the rifles have consistently shot 1/2" groups with TTSX loads so for any reasonable hunting range, I think you can come up with a hand load and TTSXs that will shoot plenty well. (I can't speak for factory ammo as I have not shot it)

Second, my experience with the all copper bullets is they need a lot more jump to be accurate and this is dependent upon the throat of your rifle, how much wear, original reamer used, etc. Barnes bullets need to be much further from the lands to obtain excellent accuracy which is contrary to almost all other types of bullets which usually are more accurate the closer they get to the lands. Barnes openly publishes this in their reloading manual and on their website but I had to "learn it" for myself by testing. One of the Barnes ballistic techs explained to me that this has something to do with the hardness of the copper (mono) versus the softer jacketed bullets. If you take the Barnes reloading instructions and seat them out even further if needed, I believe you will be able to obtain excellent accuracy with a TTSX in almost any rifle that shoots other bullets well. My reloading friends that have originally struggled with the all copper bullets and accuracy resolved the issue quickly by seating them out quite a bit deeper (further from the lands) than normal. All of my rifles have a sweet spot and once found, they shoot plenty well for hunting.

Third, you will generally lose 50 fps using a Barnes TTSX over a jacketed bullet of almost any variety given the same grain bullet. However, I have never recovered at TTSX from any game animal. I have been fortunate to have had heart/lung shots with all of my Barnes kills and the bullet put a nice hole all the way through and exited the other side, never to be recovered. Take this into consideration as you absolutely need to be aware of what is behind your target. Less internal damage than using a Berger and the animals frequently run a short distance...but they TTSX penetrates like no other bullet I have ever used. Some dont' like this, others like a full pass through. First animal I shot with a Barnes was a 53 grain X bullet in a .223 when they originally came out. Shot a 16 1/2 antelope in NM right behind the shoulder. Goat kept running like it had not been hit....about three more gallops after the shot and it tumbled over in a heap at full speed with a nice 1" hole all the way through it. The animals dont go far and nothing I have seen stops the bullet to include bone.

Finally, I have personally found that because of the longer length of the all copper bullets (copper being lighter than lead so they have to be longer) and the fact that they penetrate so well, you are much better off using a lighter Barnes TTSX than you might otherwise use with a traditional jacketed or bonded bullet. for example, I shoot 140 Bergers in my .264 Wm but I shoot 120 TTXs in the same rifle. I shoot 168 TTSX in the 300s and 210-230 Bergers in the same rifles. In a .308/30-06 go with the 150s but definitely not heavier than 165/168. For some reason, the lighter for caliber all copper bullets have always been more accurate in all of my rifles and they prefer to be shot at the top end of he velocity range rather than slow. I shoot the 168 TTSX at 3450-3500 in my 300 RUM, 3070 in the 300 WSM, etc.

Ironically, several of my other serious shooting buddies have come to the same conclusions on their own. A few years ago on a WY back country backpack mule deer hunt with some hunting buddies from CA, myself and one of my friends ended up with the same rifle/bullet/handload combination (300 WSM with 168 TTSX). We found this out sitting around a campfire talking about rifles, loads, preferences, etc. Over a year of testing we both had come up with a similar load that shoots lights out (H4350, WLRM primer, Win Brass, 168 TTSX) and we continue to shoot this load on heavy bodied game to this day.

While I shoot a bunch of different bullets, if you are going to be shooting something with thick hide and big bones, ....and you are willing to handload the TTSX, I dont think you will go wrong with it. The bullets are plenty capable....but you may have to handload to get the accuracy you desire.


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