# .308 or .243



## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

I am fortunate enough to be able to get a new gun for christmas this year. My wife wants me to do my homework on it so i can get what i really want.

It will either be the .308 or the .243. I would like your opinions *and *facts about both of them.
i will be using it for coyotes, varmits, and deer.(possibly elk if i get the .308)
Persuade me, sale me on one, tell me the follies and the benefits of both if you can.

-Thanks


----------



## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Nothing harder to answer than the "one caliber to do everything" questions. Everything is a compromise and in your case, it is which end do you want to compromise on. You also seem to have left out two excellent rounds built on the same case as the .243/.308. They are the excellent 7mm-08 and the fairly new .260 Remington. Without going into some excellent long-action .30-06 case-based rounds like the .25-06 and .270 or any magnums, I will stick to .308 case-based short action rounds like those you mentioned.

Varminting has different meanings to different people and some are more serious and shoot higher volumes of ammo than others who may want to just shoot a few rounds a year. The bigger the caliber, the poorer the ballistic coefficient of the available varmint bullets. They may start fast but lose velocity quickly. And the heavier the bullet, the more the recoil.
Deer, and elk especially require heavier bullets of good sectional density and ballistic coefficient driven at reasonable velocities and the bigger calibers deliver those heavier bullets better.

If you lean to varmints up to coyotes - the .243 is excellent, but has more recoil than the .22 rounds and is more expensive to shoot and harder on barrels than the smaller cases like the .223. The recoil mainly consists of barrel lift that keeps you from spotting misses on prairie dogs. Normally you would have to re-zero for your deer load. Deer use requires good bullets, good placement, and reasonable range (250 yards or so). Remember it is a very small diameter bullet. Forget elk.

The .260 Remington is a 6.5mm caliber that has some light varmint bullet picks and is great on deer. A little light for elk, you can use a premium 140-gr bullet for them and deer. Limit elk shots to 250 yards or so. Ballistics are virtually the same as the old 6.5x55mm Swede, which has killed a lot of moose in Scandinavia. Popularity is low and so are the numbers and models of rifles chambered for it. Recoil is very light.

The 7mm-08 duplicates the hotter loadings of the classic 7x57mm Mauser and can use 140-160 grain bullets for deer and elk. Keep shots on elk to under 300 yards with premium bullets. Recoil is still fairly light and accuracy is always a strong point. 7mm bullets have a little better ballistics than .30 cal jobs for the weight. Those that have the 7mm-08 absolutely love them. One 7mm Mag owner I know bought one for his daughter and ranks it as equal in effect until really long shots are needed. While you can get some 7mm varmint bullets, it will never be a great varminter like the smaller calibers. Personally, I think this is a great caliber that is often overlooked that is more effective on big game than its paper ballistics show, just like its 7x57mm sibling.

The .308 Winchester is even less varmint-oriented, but has a excellent accuracy rep - being the most accurate .30 as a rule. I wouldn't pick one for any serious varminting, but feel that it is a great big game round. Actual factory ammo velocity is normally on par with 30-06 in 150-gr loadings (despite factory claims) and it can work very well with good 165-180 grain bullets on elk out to 300 yards or so. Recoil is quite reasonable, and so most can do their best work with the .308 from any awkward field position. The .308 gets some good endorsements from the pros as well as to how well this mild round works:

Custom gunsmith Charlie Sisk thinks the .308 Winchester is a terrific big game hunting cartridge.


> Maybe the magnum boys will want to hang me for this," he says, "but I think there isn't any difference in performance between the .308 and the .300 Weatherby Magnum on big game out to 300 yards.


Gunwriter and former editor of Successful Hunter magazine John Barsness says:


> My own experience is that the .308 with a good 150 at 2900 or so does indeed shoot flat enough for point-blank aiming out to 300 on bigger game, and kills it pretty neatly as well. I have found the same thing with many similar cartridges. Shoot them in the right place with a good 140-160 grain bullet and they die, whether they are whitetails or moose.


 He also favors the 7x57 and 7mm-08 for this reason. He goes on to say:


> In general, yeah, at under 300 yards the .300 Weatherby's advantages over the .308 (if any) are much less than at over 300. Part of the deal is better bullets.
> These days we have 150-grain bullets that will penetrate pretty well on big game, yet also shoot pretty flat at .308 muzzle velocities. Twenty-five years ago that wasn't the case; a .300 magnum was needed to reach 2900+ at the muzzle with deep-penetrating bullets. These days not nearly as much bullet weight is required.
> Now, if there's a distinct possibility of shooting at over 300 yards, I'd rather be using a .300 magnum--or maybe a .270 or 7mm magnum--just so I can use a bullet of higher BC that won't drift as much in the wind.
> But out to 300 yards it has been my experience that a good shot with a medium-power cartridge like the .308, 7x57 or .270 will do very well on big game, and that a .300 magnum at those ranges isn't nearly as big an advantage as many hunters think it is.


So my advice would be to get a 7mm-08 or .308 Winchester if you really want a big-game oriented rifle - and the .243 if you are mainly a varminter, and the .260 Rem for a better varmint to deer overlap. The .260 is just a better deer rifle without question. I would also plan on forgetting the dual-role idea and get a .22 cal varmint rifle in the future and save yourself a lot of hassle.


----------



## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Very well said Frisco.

Itchy, you just got the best advise. Nothing more needs to be said.


----------



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

fatbass said:


> *7mm-08!*


I say +1..........in a whisper so my 308s and 243s don't hear me.


----------



## stick_man (Sep 10, 2007)

> fatbass wrote:
> *7mm-08!*


I'll second (or third, or whatever) that thought.


----------



## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm formulating my ideas. the 7mm-08 is one that i haven't been familiar with.
What about pricing for guns-
Which one has cheaper ammo-


----------



## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I would bet that the .308 has cheaper ammo since it is a military round. If your going after vermin the .308 can do it, just on the heavy side. I shot only a .243 at P-dogs for years. If you persuing Bigger then deer I would recommend a second rifle. I don't believe they have invented the "do all" rifle yet. Good luck with your decission.


----------



## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

My first "large" rifle was a .308 lever action. I still have it and it is a great big game round. For 30 cal rounds it is probably the most accurate out there, just ask the military snipers. I however don't use it for small game as I prefer the 220 swift fo that application. Good luck!


----------



## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

.243 has a reputation for being a win or lose gun. From my experience I am the loser in that senario. I cannot shoot any .243 and enjoy it. Other friends of mine are also not .243 fans. Owning a M77 in .243 is starting to get old. A .308 on the other hand has practically identical balistics of a 30-06 but with less recoil. Besides the .308 is a competition round. Distance world records have been set with the .308 and because the size of the round it is good for deer,elk, and moose. Its a good big game gun but not so good for predators. I personally would recomend keeping your guns in separate spheres. that way you get to have more guns :lol: If I had a gun library I would use a .204 for vamints including coyotes (which I do) a 25-06 for pronghorn, a 270 for deer, and a .338 for elk. (which I don't have) I have balistics books and ammunition charts and just read them all night long while at work.


----------



## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Pricing is the same for the brand/model rifle no matter which standard caliber I mentioned it is chambered for. Pricing goes up a bit for Magnum chamberings. Not all models will be chambered for all of the calibers mentioned by every brand, so that can be a consideration. Less rifles are chambered for 7mm-08 and .260 so availability may not be as good as with the dirt-common .243/.308s. Rarer chamberings can command higher rifle resale down the road - ask any collector of pre-64 Win Model 70s.


As to ammo, the most common calibers are the cheapest - .243 and .308, with 7mm-08 being $6 more (about the same as 7mm Rem Mag) and .260 Rem about $3 more per box than 7mm-08.
Remington has managed-recoil ammunition available in .260 and 7mm-08 with 140-gr bullets as opposed to the 125-gr of their managed-recoil .308. This is a consideration for many who want to introduce their wife and children to shooting.
NATO 7.62 ammo is somewhat cheap but FMJ is of limited use.

For what little you actually shoot, especially compared to gas and other assorted costs, I am a firm believer in choosing the caliber you want for big game and not worry about the price of ammo for it. For the price of a steak dinner, you can get a lot of steaks from one round.

I am partial to the 7mm-08 myself, though I don't have one. Like all members of the .308-case family, it has won a lot of competitions and was developed for target use as a ballistically "improved" .308.


----------



## IcatchEm (Sep 11, 2007)

Great info and reply Frisco Pete. But IMHO get a 30-06 ! You can use accelerators or 110 Grain hollow points for vermin or go all the way up to 220 RN if the need be :wink: . Yes one will do it all, just not as well as others in certain categories :| . Keep in mind I know less than Frisco Pete has forgotten.


----------



## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

If I had to choose between the .243 and .308 I'd pick the .243, especially if you'll be hunting varmints and predators. I've taken many deer with my .243- no problem.

I also have a new custom 7mm-08 and I love it. This will be my first choice deer gun from now on.

good luck with your choice, you cant go wrong with either of them....

sawsman


----------



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I like both rounds and dont think you'd go wrong with either the .308 or .243
One thing that I like about the .243 as opposed to the .308 is load versatility. You can really customize your ammo to what you are hunting with the .243. Bullet weight and velocities are so easy to modify on the .243. For varmints you can get Barnes Varmint Grenades and cause little pelt damage, and you can crank the muzzle velocity up to around 4000 fps! But on the other hand, you can put nice heavy bullets in there too and take a deer or antelope no problem. Not too sure about elk though. Chaser has a Winchester Model 70 (Pre 64) and it is amazing!!! I saw him drop a jack rabbit on a dead run at about 100 yards!!! That was some impressive shooting. Let us know what you decide!


----------



## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

IcatchEm said:


> But IMHO get a 30-06 ! You can use accelerators or 110 Grain hollow points for vermin or go all the way up to 220 RN if the need be . Yes one will do it all, just not as well as others in certain categories . Keep in mind I know less than Frisco Pete has forgotten.


+1....on the 30-06....really, are you shooting ground hogs or dogs. it's not like this state has great ground hog hunting. I hunt dogs with my lever action .357 with open sights. if you have calling gear and visual aid why limit your self with a smaller caliber, put some challange in it. heck we pick up a dog last week with a .22. If you plan on elk hunting, you'll be sorry going small. don't get me wrong though on the .308, very nice. I bought my kids all 30-06 for their first gun, it will do everything for them. I moved to a .300 wsm I'll see how that go's -8/-


----------



## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I own numerous 243's, 308's and 30-06 in different makes and models. the 7mm-08 has never really blown my skirt up. 

the 243 is perfect for smaller framed people or someone who are a little recoil shy but want enough gun to take down large game. 

the 308 is excellent for larger game and distance shooting and transferring a good amount of power.

The 30-06 is excellent for big game. IMO it has enough power for anything that Utah has to offer, If not all of North America. 

If you simply think of a firearm as a “tool” it will make your decision a little easier. Figure out what your objectives are, then go with the best “tool” for the job.


ETA- Listen to Frisco Pete. He really knows his stuff.


----------



## James (Oct 7, 2007)

I have a 222 Rem for varmints, and a 270 for larger critters. I get along fine. I don't believe for a minute you will ever be happy for long with a do-it-all rifle. The larger cases are expensive to shoot for varmints, and the small calibers are not well suited for deer and larger. 

Get the 308 first if big game is on your agenda. 

Good Luck!


----------



## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

I've decided to go with the .308 mostly because i don't get out and varmit hunt very much. My brother takes care of any animal hides that i bring him so i'm not to worried about ripping up a coyote. He sure doesn't like it when i tell him i'm taking out the 338 to shoot coyotes (even though i don't).
I'm going to get the Howa 1500, mostly because i have an opportunity to get it alot cheaper than retail.

Thanks to all that have given input.


----------



## hutch14 (Dec 10, 2008)

ive had a .308 for 4 years now and i absolutely love it. i killed a deer with one shot at 400 yards and my brother killed an antelope at 450 yds with his. it has great trajectory and minimal kick. obviously i am a little bias but the .308 is one of the most versatile calibers on the market


----------



## Lycan (Sep 22, 2008)

You can still use a .308 for varmints. You'll just find less of them is all. :wink:


----------



## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

Well here it is my new .308. I've gone out and shot it and love it. I need to get it on a bench rest and zero it in better still. I'm a bit wobbly without one but was able to hit a sheet of paper and get it in closer. Where's a good range that i could get my gun sighted in at 2 inches high at 100 yards. with decent benches and rests?


----------



## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Depends on where you live ???


----------



## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

ogden
I hear bountiful's is nice but i've never been there.


----------



## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Nice gun itchy,

What scope did you put on it?

I recommend heading west out to the desert to shoot (away from people), but thats just me.

sawsman


----------



## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

We got the combo package, It is a Nikko Sterling Night Eater 3.5x10x42. I'm still a little leary about it mostly because i hadn't heard much about it. It'll stay on there for about 2 years unless i do have problems. We got the gun/scope combo for $345. Checking around it was going for $499+tax in almost every other place we looked. So that 150 we saved will go towards a new scope in the future.

We went out west on new years day after bunnies and when we stopped for lunch i tried to get it sighted in but i'm just too wobbly without much of a rest. But i did get some decent groups.(at least for me anyway)


----------



## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

itchytriggerfinger said:


> Well here it is my new .308. I've gone out and shot it and love it. I need to get it on a bench rest and zero it in better still. I'm a bit wobbly without one but was able to hit a sheet of paper and get it in closer. Where's a good range that i could get my gun sighted in at 2 inches high at 100 yards. with decent benches and rests?


http://www.wahsatchshooters.com/Main.aspx


----------

