# Who would shoot it?



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Ok, here's this weeks question.
Knowing the DWR is doing some sort of research on this buck.
Probably tracking its migration and such.
This picture was taken on 7/6/2019. He has a lot of growing still to do, so I'm guessing he could end up a 180" buck.
Who would shoot it and who would pass just to let the DWR do their research?
I know this is a once in a lifetime buck for many people but if you said you would pass on it, how big would it need to be to change your mind?


Come on people, I would like a lot of feedback on this one. 
Even you lurkers.;-)


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'd shoot it, who knows just how long the collar has been on? It might of just been for a study on the migration pattern of the buck. And while the division recommends for you not to shoot it, it is still a legal buck. Just return the collar, but it would be neat if you did a mount with the collar on it. 

I remember before collars they used ear tags. My brother in law shot a buck back in the 60's that had a tag in each ear. He sent one tag in and kept the other tag in the bucks ear when he had it mounted. It makes it a little bit more unique.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

I would shoot it. I know they “ask” you to pass when they have a collar, but he is a good buck.

It is an easy question for me as I’ve already shot a buck with a collar before down near LaSal. I took it back to the check station and the biologist and I had a great conversation on the Bucks habits and migration. To me the information was really helpful to know more about the buck. Did the biologist seem mad that I shot it? Not really but he knew exactly who that buck was and had been following him for many years.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I shot a sheep that was collared felt very selfish afterwards and kinda ruined the moment. I can still remember the look they gave me when I returned the collar. I've vowed to never do it again. Tough choice they are still legal to harvest.

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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

If I had other options I wouldn't. But if it was the last day of the season and I still had to punch my tag... I'd be more tempted.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

I would shoot and not think twice about it. Yes, the collar is providing data to the dwr but there are lots of mule deer and taking a collared one wouldn’t have the same impact on their study as taking a collared bear or sheep. 


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Five or ten years ago I would shoot him without hesitation. Now, wouldn't even raise my rifle. I'm of the mindset all collared critters serve a purpose to the DWR, and all the data they recover is important in one fashion or another.


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## elkunited (Aug 16, 2019)

I have to agree with those who would pass. Even though it's legal to shoot, I feel I would be interfering with research. Backcountry did pose am interesting thought though if it was the last day and had to fill my tag, I would find it easier to pull the trigger.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Wouldnt the collar rub the neck hair and make a distinct mark on the cape?




-DallanC


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

If I knew for sure that the next guy over the next ridge won't shoot it, I would pass. But, in reality, if it ain't me, it's him...so...or,
Maybe in the spirit of being a true hunter/sportsman/conversationalist a guy could just lay one across the bow and still claim some sort of bragging rights.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Shoot it, take the collar, find a young fawn road kill... hang collar on fawn carcass. Imagine the humor and dismay from the student trying to reconcile years of data with yearling tooth data.


-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

What I am wondering about is what data are they gathering from a mature buck that they can't get from a doe? 

Also are all of the collars GPS tracking equipped or do they depend on getting the collar back so that they can download the data from where he has been?


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Me if I found a nice buck like that on cam or glassing during a scout id probably call dwr and maybe not tell tham what I saw but ask about how many bucks they have collared and what they are trying to study. But if during the hunt yes id be tempted but would go with no. Only as id have that thought if not me then someone else but id say well I wasnt raised to be like them. Im not a spiritual freak but feel karma could pay you off something better down the road.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> What I am wondering about is what data are they gathering from a mature buck that they can't get from a doe?


I'd think quite a bit. Bucks summer in completely different locations than does, they also migrate to locate does come breeding season. I know the buck Popeye was tracked pretty heavily and he traveled hundreds of miles.



> Also are all of the collars GPS tracking equipped or do they depend on getting the collar back so that they can download the data from where he has been?


I could be wrong, but I thought they give an occasional signal that receivers can pickup, but broadcast a different signal if the collar detects all motion has stopped (ie: dead deer or slipped collar). I don't know if current collars purposely deteriorate and fall off by themselves after X years, I know some collars are designed to fall off after some period of time.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Whatever they accomplish it would be nice if the general public was able to access the information. 

I know that the Colorado hunt planner has migration routes along with wintering and summering grounds posted on the web site.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Last year I killed a collared cow elk, my dad and brother in law both killed collared bison. 3 collars in a hunting season. Every time we returned a collar, we were told that harvesting the animal is also part of the study’s being conducted. Sure they would rather not have them killed, but at the same time they understand that even harvest data is important on those study’s. I’d for sure shoot that buck and wouldn’t think twice about it.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

The scientist in me feels that collars are there to provide data for the dnr, not just migration but, habitat, feeding areas, behavior, and predation data. By not shooting the animal with a collar when otherwise you would shoot it is technically going to give the dnr false data. But the realist in me feels like it would be a waste if money and time for the dnr to have to go collar another deer.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I’d shoot it! Isn’t the impact of hunting part of the research?!

Cool buck!


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## Hunttilidrop (Jun 12, 2018)

I’d shoot him.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Putting a collar on anything increase the chances of premature death in today’s world. The DWR knows this. They probably knew this buck was in trouble the minute they caught him. It’s no different than collared geese and swans. They draw attention to the animals and they get killed first


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Aznative said:


> Me if I found a nice buck like that on cam or glassing during a scout id probably call dwr and maybe not tell tham what I saw but ask about how many bucks they have collared and what they are trying to study. But if during the hunt yes id be tempted but would go with no. Only as id have that thought if not me then someone else but id say well I wasnt raised to be like them. Im not a spiritual freak but feel karma could pay you off something better down the road.


Ok here's a scenario. You're 20 bonus points and several thousand dollars in fuel and hunting supplies, invested into a once in a lifetime cow bison hunt. It's the last 10 minutes of legal shooting light on the last day of the season. You haven't seen a bison in the 10 days you've hunted. You are checking one last spot before it's over and you finally see a lone cow bison standing on the hill in front of you. It's got a collar.... are you shooting? Or are you better than that?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I was going to say I’d shoot it and not feel bad about it, then I saw sheepassassin’s comment and now I’m beginning to question my judgment. 

I’m kidding! (Kind of...) 

But really, I’d kill this buck if I had the proper permit and all else was legal. It would be very easy to pass a rule that it is illegal to kill collared big game if they needed to. They have chosen not to do that, and I’m going to read into it that the killing of a collared buck won’t disrupt their science too much. 

I will say this notion of “I am not like them” is somewhat troubling. By “them” do you mean those that are out hunting legally and just trying to enjoy themselves? I’d like to hear more about that, aznative.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

sheepassassin said:


> Putting a collar on anything increase the chances of premature death in today's world. The DWR knows this. They probably knew this buck was in trouble the minute they caught him. It's no different than collared geese and swans. They draw attention to the animals and they get killed first


Any evidence to back that up? I ask as I've never heard of that type of certainty from wildlife biologist. Capture-related mortality is a known risk in any of these operations but we are often talking percentages less than 3%, if not decimal, with modern professional techniques. 
And as I understand it most mortality comes from capture method that results in something like "capture myopathy".

Would love to see the data and findings detailing a collars relationship in the cause of mortality.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

sheepassassin said:


> Ok here's a scenario. You're 20 bonus points and several thousand dollars in fuel and hunting supplies, invested into a once in a lifetime cow bison hunt. It's the last 10 minutes of legal shooting light on the last day of the season. You haven't seen a bison in the 10 days you've hunted. You are checking one last spot before it's over and you finally see a lone cow bison standing on the hill in front of you. It's got a collar.... are you shooting? Or are you better than that?


I will say the biggest cow bison I saw was collared. Sure makes it easier to be 100% sure it's a cow when the brush is over balls high. I'll hope it doesn't come down to that because even though I told myself I won't in end I'm a selfish tag filler.

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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

weaversamuel76 said:


> I will say the biggest cow bison I saw was collared. Sure makes it easier to be 100% sure it's a cow when the brush is over balls high. I'll hope it doesn't come down to that because even though I told myself I won't in end I'm a selfish tag filler.
> 
> Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


Both collared cows we killed were the biggest out of both groups. On a OIL, LE or even a GS tag, I'm not, not gonna shoot the biggest animal I see, just because it's wearing a collar.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I’d probably shoot it. Actually, I’m sure I would.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

I’d shoot it.


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## Decoycarver24 (Aug 17, 2018)

Id pop him


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Brown it's down. Sorry at this point in time there is nothing wrong with shooting a collared animal.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

There is a collared buck in the area I hang out. 
A very good 6 X 4 with a nice kicker. 

If I catch him on the side of the fence I have permission on...........
He'll be in big trouble. :mrgreen:


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

That's a big buck. I'd probably shoot him. That said, it seems harder in my mind to shoot a collared buck than to shoot a collared cow elk. Trying to figure out why I feel that way. Interesting scenario. Thanks for sharing.


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## Wasatch Wings (Sep 29, 2015)

ns450f said:


> The scientist in me feels that collars are there to provide data for the dnr, not just migration but, habitat, feeding areas, behavior, and predation data. By not shooting the animal with a collar when otherwise you would shoot it is technically going to give the dnr false data. But the realist in me feels like it would be a waste if money and time for the dnr to have to go collar another deer.


This is what I was thinking. It's a great buck. If I had another option just as nice I might pass, but probably not because second chances are hard to come by and I like meat in my freezer.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

if there were two legal deer with the same shot presented then i'd take the other deer. if that's the only one around...dead deer. meat is meat. antlers are cool but not really my priority. plus i hate dealing with velvet.-O,-


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

this deer is either dead by now or probably running around with an arrow in it. p.s. I'd shoot.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

APD said:


> if there were two legal deer with the same shot presented then i'd take the other deer. if that's the only one around...dead deer. meat is meat. antlers are cool but not really my priority. plus i hate dealing with velvet.-O,-


so if this buck is standing next to a 2 point, you'd shoot the 2 point instead? i highly doubt any hunter in utah would do that. if you say you would, you arent being honest with yourself


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

I wouldn't even hesitate. Like mentioned earlier, the harvest is just as much of the study in my opinion. What is the difference between this and a collared swan? How many of you try to gun down ducks with bans vs those that don't. Plus he's going turn out to be a great buck. If the shot presented itself, i'd take it.


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## Slap That Quack (Mar 2, 2017)

I'd shoot him, I agree predation is part of the data they are after. Besides who knows how much longer that deer would live anyways.


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## Pzn801 (Mar 15, 2016)

Id shoot it no questions asked.


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## Pzn801 (Mar 15, 2016)

Id shoot it no questions asked.


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## scartinez (Apr 22, 2008)

I would shoot without any hesitation. Perfectly legal buck and I like venison.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

I would already be gutting it by now, no hesitation.
I agree with sheepassasin though, a collared animal does get more attention brought upon itself which in turn, I believe, increases its chances of being harvested.
Take this poor collared elk for example.....


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

hunting777 said:


> What is the difference between this and a collared swan?


Arguably, the difference in these collars and that of a goose/swan is that with a goose and a swan, the only time they collect data is after harvest. With the big game collars they get data while the animal is living.

It doesn't change my opinion, I'd still kill it. But there is a difference between these and waterfowl.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Vanilla said:


> Arguably, the difference in these collars and that of a goose/swan is that with a goose and a swan, the only time they collect data is after harvest. With the big game collars they get data while the animal is living.
> 
> It doesn't change my opinion, I'd still kill it. But there is a difference between these and waterfowl.


Not always, many birds get reported that are seen but not killed, one of the several reasons they collar trumpeter swans. Some collared birds have GPS transmitters on their backs. Turkeys, although not collared but are still banded, will also sometimes have a GPS on them as well to track migration patterns from their summer areas to their winter areas.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Not always, but sometimes. Which ARGUABLY makes them different. Si?


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Well Vanilla I guess we think about these things from where we are raised. I guess where im from is different as we had areas where deer, sheep, and other populations struggled so when they collared stuff down there they asked for people to be kinda thoughtful as they were trying to research for getting populations up. If up here its different than id probably have no problem shooting it so I guess thats my answer for you.


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## Hunttilidrop (Jun 12, 2018)

Where do deer, sheep and other populations struggle more than here??


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Im guessing practically any other state anymore and guess even here from what people say.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

And Sheep gotta give you that one good point if it were a bison hunt or even a limited entry deer in that situation. I was purely thinking general deer tag in area where there are bucks. I guess my thinking was just an average hunt. If you throw in a bison hunt etc etc last day 20 years sky is falling last meal before death etc etc well why not lol.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I have a new mission in life: shoot a collared baby deer/elk/whatever


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

sheepassassin said:


> so if this buck is standing next to a 2 point, you'd shoot the 2 point instead? i highly doubt any hunter in utah would do that. if you say you would, you arent being honest with yourself


i've done it before with cow and bull elk. i'm honest with myself in the woods. i know what i want to do, can do and should do. takes me less time to get fresh meat to the cooler when i take a cow/calf than a bull. deer are the same way. for me, the hunt is fun and challenging without getting hung up on inches. but like i said before. if is the only game in town, he's on the menu that night. his velvet rack will likely stay in the field.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Should have done a poll.

The collar wouldn't change my decision.


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## Wasatch Wings (Sep 29, 2015)

What are your thoughts after all this Ridge?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Wasatch Wings said:


> What are your thoughts after all this Ridge?


Well, when I had my bighorn sheep tag I was convinced I didn't want to shoot a collared ram. Mainly because I thought the cape would be in bad shape but when I ended up seeing my ram for the first time about two weeks before the hunt started. That was the only ram I wanted to go after and the collar and ear tags were never on my mind.

I'm not going to let a collared buck walk away if that's a buck I would be willing to shoot if it didn't have a collar.

Here's another picture of the collared buck from a different camera a few hundred yards away from the other one. I wished he was a little wider.


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