# Montana Thanksgiving



## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

For thanksgiving the Paddler (my wife) our kids and I went to the cabin in Montana.[attachment=10:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 056.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj][attachment=9:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 059.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj] The property is located 60 miles south of Kalispell on the beautiful swan river, the kids love the water[attachment=8:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 051.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj] Went fishing on the river just above where it empties into swan lake[attachment=7:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 023.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj] We have had great success in this spot over the years catching rainbows, cuts, bulls, and pike. This trip we landed a few bows, bulls, mountain whitefish, and maybe a lake trout im not sure if its a bull or laker. The montana proc. doesnt show lake trout being in swan lake, if you have an opinion on what type of trout this is chime in.[attachment=6:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 009.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj][attachment=5:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 015.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj]These are the fish in question :?: When the hour of fishing was over we had both landed 5 fish a piece.[attachment=4:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 021.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj][attachment=3:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 031.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj][attachment=2:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 013.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj]This is my bull trout with great colors[attachment=1:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 026.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj][attachment=0:3ap82cxj]Montana thanksgiving 027.JPG[/attachment[attachment=0]Montana thanksgiving 027.JPG[/attachment:3ap82cxj]What a great place to spend the holiday. 8)


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

Looks like a very cool trip bro. Good thing Jeter didn't freeze to the bank :shock: Wish I knew someone with property in Montana that could take me up there and show me the ropes.


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

SilverSmitty said:


> Dolly Varden trout with those pink spots?
> 
> Looks like a great outting. Nice photos and great report!


I was thinking Dollies too, after looking at some of DocEsex pics. But I wouldn't know on account of never actually catching one or a bull trout or any trout that calls Montana home. 
The wether looks warm way up there too.... strange winter so far.


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## mjschijf (Oct 1, 2007)

Nice job, Puddles! Montana sure has some great fishing. That is an awesome looking Bull Trout, or whatever kind of fish that is. Glad you were able to get away to such a cool place for Thanksgiving. Looks like a sweet time!


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

That Bull Trout is awesome. Great looking fish. I think I may be able to get to montana next year. My dad is doing a Mule Deer hunt up there. If I were single, I would move there. I didnt see any other people in those pictures.... perfect. 8)


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## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

Montana is an amazing place im very fotunate to have a place to stay up there. Ive always been told they are bull trout here is another from last spring same spot[attachment=0:c725uubg]Misc. Pictures 290.JPG[/attachment:c725uubg]


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## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

Poo Pie said:


> Looks like a very cool trip bro. Good thing Jeter didn't freeze to the bank :shock: Wish I knew someone with property in Montana that could take me up there and show me the ropes.


The invite has been there for ya lets go this winter or the spring


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Cool pictures, nice fish. Only one problem that pollutes the pics. That County Fire shirt has got to go! :wink: :lol:


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## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Cool pictures, nice fish. Only one problem that pollutes the pics. That County Fire shirt has got to go! :wink: :lol:


Oh marty when are you going to join the dark side with poopie and I? :mrgreen:


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Puddles said:


> martymcfly73 said:
> 
> 
> > Cool pictures, nice fish. Only one problem that pollutes the pics. That County Fire shirt has got to go! :wink: :lol:
> ...


I'll never join the dark side! Well maybe next year. :mrgreen:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

What a report !!!  

Tree's, water, fish and a cabin !! :shock: 

Picture's of your kids, along with the new-born !!

Thanks Puddles and Paddler for sharing your Thanksgiving with us.....good stuff !! 8)


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## Nueces (Jul 22, 2008)

That is a nice looking area and great fish pics, looking like a wonderful Thanksgiving weekend.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Awesome. Thanks for sharing! Looks like an amazing weekend.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks for the report, I wish I new someone, who knew someone who had a cabin in Montana.  


Oh and the fish in question in the pictures is a brown trout, you can tell by the spots. Silllly.


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## mjschijf (Oct 1, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Thanks for the report, I wish I new someone, who knew someone who had a cabin in Montana.
> 
> Oh and the fish in question in the pictures is a brown trout, you can tell by the spots. Silllly.


No fixed, it is definitely a Bull Trout.

That thing looks nothing like a Brown. If you actually caught one, you'd see. :wink:

Just kidding fixed. I love you.


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## Jesse Higgins (Sep 11, 2007)

Great TR and pics! 8)

Most likely those are Bull Trout not Dolly V's. Here is a LINK to a pretty definitive source on the matter.


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## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

Jesse Higgins said:


> Great TR and pics! 8)
> 
> Most likely those are Bull Trout not Dolly V's. Here is a LINK to a pretty definitive source on the matter.


I was looking at this link this morning as well and my opinion is still that they are bulls. Thanks for the info Jesse, I knew I would get great feedback from everybody on the forum!!


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## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

I just got off the phone with a fish biologist in montana who pulled up the pics online while talking to me. He said they are all bull trout except the one my wife has it maybe a hybrid bull/brook. They call bull trout dollys when they are ocean running, and bulls when they are inland and not ocean runners.


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## DocEsox (May 12, 2008)

Puddles&#8230;.what a fabulous report and great pictures&#8230;..know exactly where you were. Started fishing the Swan River when I was 10 (back in 1965) and have fished every inch of it from where it dumps into Flathead clear up to Condon. My parents live in the Northshore Harbor on Flathead just out of Bigfork Bay. Over the last 40+ years I have caught bull trout probably a few thousand. But it wasn't until the last 5 years when I began extensive study of trout taxonomy that I could tell what was exactly what.

"I just got off the phone with a fish biologist in montana who pulled up the pics online while talking to me. He said they are all bull trout except the one my wife has it maybe a hybrid bull/brook. They call bull trout dollys when they are ocean running, and bulls when they are inland and not ocean runners.

Puddles "

I agree those were bull trout, except your wife's does appear to be a brookXbull hybrid&#8230;.if you blow up the picture you can tell by looking at the dorsal fin&#8230;.bulls dorsals are absolutely clean&#8230;.no markings&#8230;.hybrids have spotting or vermiculations on the dorsal like brookies. Much confusion takes place because bull trout in the Pacific Northwest are frequently referred to as dolly varden&#8230;.while closely related they are not the same. Unfortunately the distinction was only made in 1978&#8230;before then dollies and bulls were not differentiated. While bulls are almost exclusively inland there is a small strain of ocean run bulls in Washington. On the other hand most dolly varden are anadramous and always coastal.

So I feel inclined to write the Charr Primer now because I am bored, it is snowing, all the water around here is very frozen, etc.. There are five charr native to North America&#8230;.brookies, lakers, arctic charr, dolly varden and bull trout. Although brookies and lakers are generally easy to tell apart&#8230;.the other 3 can be extremely difficult to tell apart, especially if their ranges overlap. To make it more fun&#8230;.there are 3 subspecies of arctic charr and two subspecies of dolly varden. You only have to worry about arctic charr here in Alaska, northern Canada and a few in the upper northeastern states (the oquassa subspecies). Of the two subspecies of dollies the northern subspecies exists only in Alaska and northern Canada. The southern subspecies (you have to love the Russian name for this critter&#8230;..salvelinus malma krascheninikovi&#8230;..try saying that 3 times real fast) is found from southcentral Alaska down to Oregon. Basically the only place there is a big overlap of dollies and bulls is in British Columbia. Now the family tree gets even more convoluted&#8230;..the northern subspecies of dolly varden and arctic charr have 78 chromosomes while the southern subspecies of dolly has 82 chromosomes. And the bull trout has 78 chromosomes&#8230;..BUT&#8230;even though the dolly and arctic charr are genetically very closely related the bull trout is most closely related to the white spotted charr of the Kamchatka peninsula&#8230;..go figure. Suffice it to say dolly varden and bull trout are separate and distinct species but local names frequently refer to bulls as dollies.

Now for the photo part of the primer (take notes&#8230;.there may be a quiz after the pictures).

First here are some other pictures of Swan River bull trout over the years&#8230;.and yes, back in the old days some of these were eaten&#8230;.they are very tasty.





































Most of those were caught in August when the fish were moving upstream to spawn. I have caught them to 13 or so lbs in the Swan. Here is a picture of a juvenile bull trout:










They are quite slender until they get to about 18 inches&#8230;..these fish are primarily lacustrine&#8230;.they live in Swan Lake but spawn up the small creeks along the Swan River.

Now we get to tougher distinctions. Here is a picture of a brook trout next to a brook/bull hybrid:










Now a picture of a larger hybrid and then its dorsal fin so you can see the markings on the dorsal which are not found on a pure bull trout:



















Montana fish and game doesn't advertise the fact you can keep hybrids&#8230;.as a matter-of-fact they wish everyone of them could be killed as the nonnative brook trout and hybrids are destroying the genetics of the bull trout. But most people can hardly tell a brook trout from a bull trout, let alone a hybrid. And if you keep a hybrid and are checked you better know your fish as the bulls are protected.

The problem in telling bulls and dollies apart is that there are so many color variations&#8230;which also depend on the time of the year. When they get large bulls are easy to tell as they get a sloping flat forehead. As an example of color variation here are a host of southern dollies from Alaskan waters:

Spring dolly with no color from the Talkeetna River:










Fall fish caught in a Kenai peninsula tributary&#8230;..










Kenai River dollies&#8230;.September and October:





































Dollies in the fall on Quartz Creek&#8230;Kenai Peninsula:










These last few are from Quartz also but are a very dark color variation:



















Up here in Alaska you have to try to differentiate arctic charr:










Artic charr are generally lake dwelling&#8230;.have sparser spots&#8230;.shorter mouth and narrower caudal peduncle (where the tail meets the body) then dollies.

Hope this really helps out&#8230;.or just makes it worse I'm not sure.

Brian


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## Puddles (Nov 28, 2007)

Brian, I was hoping to hear your take on this subject and man im very impressed with your knowledge. Those are some great looking pics of some beautiful swan fish, I have over the past 11 years fallen in love with this river and the area. My wife and I make it up there 8 to 10 times a year and thats not nearly enough time, it is truely Gods country. From the missions to the marshal highway 83 has some much to explore and see its always something new everytime I visit. Thank you again for the great info, will you try and send some of that cold stuff to utah there are alot of people wanting to do some ice fishing.


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## DocEsox (May 12, 2008)

Puddles.....I forgot to answer one of you original questions about lake trout in Swan Lake. Again MT fish and game doesn't advertise the fact that lake trout were found in Swan Lake several years ago and now are greatly increasing in numbers. With time this could really cause the decline of Swan River bull trout...which happen to one of the healthiest populations left in the US of bull trout. Lake systems which have had the mysis shrimp introduced and have lake trout have caused devastating effect to native cutts and bull trout.....that is what killed all the kokannee and bull trout in Flathead. Once the lake trout are in there.....they ain't coming out. Currently Yellowstone Lake is spending millions every year killing spawning lake trout (hey, maybe you could send all the spear fishermen up there as they want all the lakers eradicated) in a losing effort to save the native population of yellowstone cutthroat (our native Montana cutthroats are Westslopes) but nearly 90% of the cutts are gone. So...."yes" you could be picking up some lake trout there in the Swan River by Swan Lake.

Brian


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## netresult (Aug 22, 2008)

Brian, Shouldn't you be seeing laker/bull hybrids in that system or do they not hybridize? Great info and pics, by the way, Larry


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

yep definitely brown trout.


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## DocEsox (May 12, 2008)

FB...I think you have a brown trout fixation....

Netresult....good question about possible hybrids with lakers and bulls as they are both charr. But although possible there aren't any known hybrids this way as lake trout spawn within the lake system and bulls run up river to small gravel streams to spawn....the same streams frequented by brookies....hence bull/brook hybrids but no bull/laker hybrids.

Brian


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> yep definitely brown trout.


Come with me Fixed.... we'll get you a brown... 8)

Doc, I agree with the admiration of your knowledge... very cool to read what you have to say about things like this. The pictures are great too!!

Puddles... looks like a fantastic time in the middle of nowhere... just how it should be.


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