# Proposed 2021 Big Game Permit Numbers Available



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Get reading, gents:

RAC, Board meeting agendas, materials & minutes

So far I'm seeing sizable cuts for general season deer tags and deer/elk tags on the Book Cliffs. We'll see what else jumps out.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Other thoughts:


3 goat tags proposed for Ogden, Willard Peak. Can't believe how far that unit has fallen.
20 bull and 20 cow bison tags in the Roadless unit. Seems crowded for a unit of that size.
Sizable cut in cow moose permit numbers
The ewe bighorn hunt is proposed to continue with 10 permits in 2021
New boundary and pitiful permit numbers on Parker Mountain for antelope.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Can someone please remind me why we can't have this information available prior to the draw period closing???🤦‍♂️


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> Can someone please remind me why we can't have this information available prior to the draw period closing???


Yeah that is a tough one. While this year I switched elk units and looks like I made the right choice I’m hoping all others still picked the other unit to help my odds. 


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

CPAjeff said:


> Can someone please remind me why we can't have this information available prior to the draw period closing???🤦‍♂️


I'm actually surprised that the have it this early, but perhaps with the better weather they were able to get out and do their surveys. 

The only other thing that they could do would be to start the application period after the numbers come out. But then Utah will be way behind the other states that they compete with for the dollars that hunters spend for applications. 

But either way that they have it you will have people complaining that it is either too early or too late.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Critter said:


> But either way that they have it you will have people complaining that it is either too early or too late.


Very true - I'm totally a complainer on this one! I understand there are certain timeframes and other parameters the wildlife folks are working under, and I thank them for the job they do . . . it just seems so moronic to apply for units where a person doesn't have the tag numbers available. . .

Rant over.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Looks like the pronghorn must be doing well...

interesting that 2 well known nursery units in utah (pronghorn-Parker & mtn goat-Willard peak) populations have taken a nose dive and don’t show any signs of recovery...


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

CPAjeff said:


> Very true - I'm totally a complainer on this one! I understand there are certain timeframes and other parameters the wildlife folks are working under, and I thank them for the job they do . . . it just seems so moronic to apply for units where a person doesn't have the tag numbers available. . .
> 
> Rant over.


It could be worse. You could have wasted an application year for a tag that ended up with 0 tags given for that hunt, like what happened to many last year in the DH drawing... bad luck they couldn’t issue general tags on a couple units for guys, but at least they found a few for the LE late muzzy hunters to draw for


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

MooseMeat said:


> It could be worse. You could have wasted an application year for a tag that ended up with 0 tags given for that hunt, like what happened to many last year in the DH drawing... bad luck they couldn’t issue general tags on a couple units for guys, but at least they found a few for the LE late muzzy hunters to draw for


You and I must have applied for the same DH unit!


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Draw needs to be later, after permit numbers are out.
Who cares if it ‘competes’ with out of staters hunting budget, I sure don’t.
I have zero desire to cater to out of staters desires to hunt our animals.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The draw is later, the application period is early. 

It's not just hunters from out of state but also Utah hunters who hunt other states as well 

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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

BigT said:


> You and I must have applied for the same DH unit!


I’m certain we do haha


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

So, if you out in for a unit or DH and no tags get allocated you still get the point....Right ?


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

So they're proposing to cut antlerless elk significantly on the CM Manti again...lame. Yet no cuts to the 200 Private Only tags on the unit.

If the herds are hurting so badly shouldn't the cuts be made across the board?

Guess I'll get my 5th point soon...if I don't draw my LE MZ Elk tag. They're increasing those by 6.
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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

2full said:


> So, if you out in for a unit or DH and no tags get allocated you still get the point....Right ?


Yes, but you lose a year of possible hunting opportunities that you could have applied for another unit had we known prior to the deadline that no tags would be given that year.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Was just wondering. Had never heard one way or the other.


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## FeartheTurtle (Mar 8, 2021)

Wow - big cuts in the Book Cliffs. My son is in for that muzzleloader deer hunt. All but two people drew last year with eleven and he has twelve. Hope that's still enough.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

When do they release dedicated numbers?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Ray said:


> When do they release dedicated numbers?


It’s part of the percentage that goes to the rifle tags. I can’t remember what it is. 15% is what my memory is telling me, but that might be incorrect


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

.05% is what the packet says. There were several units that did not have tags available for DH last year. Those people who applied and did not draw last year now have at least 1 DH point going in this year.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

MooseMeat said:


> Yes, but you lose a year of possible hunting opportunities that you could have applied for another unit had we known prior to the deadline that no tags would be given that year.


This, and it creates additional point creep for the DH unit. What may have taken 2 points before might take 3-4 now. I didn't disagree with the unit being cut tags, the deer herd seems down. However, it would have been nice to know ahead of time that it was just a donation! That said, with that knowledge I would have just bought a point anyways.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

middlefork said:


> .05% is what the packet says. There were several units that did not have tags available for DH last year. Those people who applied and did not draw last year now have at least 1 DH point going in this year.


This seems about right. The only thing with the point, is if the same people applied again that applied before, that point is kind of "pointless" as it just created more point creep for that unit. Now they could use that point on another unit. 

I do have it on good authority that the unit MM and I applied for last year will have allocated DH permits this year. Don't know how many.. If it's 5%, then that would be a little over 100 permits for DH.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Middlefork- the only .05 number I see refers to the LE ML tags. Where did you see the DH number? The UDWR put in a minimum number of tags this last year that will be offered to avoid the scenario of no tags last year.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Packout, you are correct. I was wrong.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

DH has always been 15 percent since they went to a percentage allotment.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

As for the tag numbers presented, most of them look good to me.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

BigT said:


> This seems about right. The only thing with the point, is if the same people applied again that applied before, that point is kind of "pointless" as it just created more point creep for that unit. Now they could use that point on another unit.
> 
> I do have it on good authority that the unit MM and I applied for last year will have allocated DH permits this year. Don't know how many.. If it's 5%, then that would be a little over 100 permits for DH.


The catch with 15% being DH permits is, that is the TOTAL number allowed for the unit. They take into consideration the remaining DH tags that currently exist from other hunters that have drawn previously and are still in the program. So guys that drew in 2019, those tags will also be included in the 15% of the total permits issued for this year. That’s what hosed people last year with tag cuts. The current existing number of tags out there, exceeded the overall numbers proposed for that year, so no DH tags were offered.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

MooseMeat said:


> The catch with 15% being DH permits is, that is the TOTAL number allowed for the unit. They take into consideration the remaining DH tags that currently exist from other hunters that have drawn previously and are still in the program. So guys that drew in 2019, those tags will also be included in the 15% of the total permits issued for this year. That’s what hosed people last year with tag cuts. The current existing number of tags out there, exceeded the overall numbers proposed for that year, so no DH tags were offered.


this makes sense, I knew they took the currently issued DH tags into consideration but wasn’t entirely sure how it worked out.
I called the division, no one knew a damned thing.. at times, this forum is more informative than they are.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

Ray said:


> this makes sense, I knew they took the currently issued DH tags into consideration but wasn’t entirely sure how it worked out.
> I called the division, no one knew a damned thing.. at times, this forum is more informative than they are.


Copy.. This makes more sense! Thanks for the clarification. Even with that, every year they have more than 100 persons coming out of the program which is why I was surprised even with the tag cuts that they didn't allot any. Of course they probably had more than 15% in the system after the cuts, and the other hunters ended their program. Still, what took 2-3 points is now 3-4 easy on that unit.


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## Natural Born Killer (Oct 29, 2015)

Wow,
A 26.3% cut in deer tags on the Kamas unit. 500 last year and an other 500 this year.
If the old timers that showed me their ways were still with us they would never believe this!


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

ridgetop said:


> As for the tag numbers presented, most of them look good to me.


Any thoughts on Pine Valley? 10% cut, but over objective every year.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

provider said:


> Any thoughts on Pine Valley? 10% cut, but over objective every year.


Without knowing any details. I'm guessing with the severe drought, there was a huge drop off in the fawn survival rate this past year and probably will happen again and because most bucks that are killed are yearlings, I'm sure the hunter success rates will be dropping too. 
So even with a high objection, the amount of huntable bucks this year will be less than what it was last year but that's just my guess.


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