# Low points in work life



## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Hey all,

If you were going to make a mid-work life career change, what would you do?

I'm currently in a huge career rut. It's the kind where when you look at the facts of your life from an objective standpoint, you realize you should have no reason at all to complain or be unhappy with the way things are. I've been in the brewing industry for 7 years now, after teaching high school for 4 years. Brewing was my "dream job" and it was fantastic for awhile. But, things have changed, the industry has changed, and now I dread going to work every single day. I've been proud my entire life to have a work ethic that is second to none, until now. I'm so dissatisfied with my daily work that I've become a person that does bare minimum, and sometimes not even that.

But, it doesn't make sense. I have a great family, own a home, have two step kids and hope to have my own within a year or so, and the best wife ever. The company I work for is absolutely fantastic; the president goes above and beyond to make sure everyone is heard and looks out for them. I have self-managed PTO and have other pretty nice benefits considering the general lack of benefits in the craft beer industry. I make a decent salary (50k-100k). So, I see no reason I should be unhappy with my current work. The self managed PTO (all the time off for hunting!!!), benefits, and company are what are keeping me here. My job title, Quality Manager, doesn't actually interest me, but I see it as a plus because it qualifies me for a decent job in another industry. But if I were to change, I don't think I'd want to be a quality manager elsewhere. I have found that I'm happiest when I'm active. If I could get a job literally digging a ditch for the same pay and benefits, I'd be all over it.

If you were going to switch things up at 33 years of age with no idea what job you'd be happy with long term, what would you do?


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Have you had a conversation with your boss or the owner on what your next steps in your career would be? What does he want you to work on? 

I've been in that rut, and generally, I was being a little short sided thinking about what I got out of something. What was I investing to get in return? One of those was specifically a tough management situation. I changed managers and the world got better. Same job, same seat. New boss that was a great leader. I stayed with him even when other jobs came open because I loved working for him. He was one of the best bosses I've ever had. Supportive, mentored, guided, but let me do stuff and only got involved when needed. Loved working for him. I've tried to be like him as a manager. 

Just a thought. Maybe go have an honest conversation with your boss. If he is as good as you say, I'd bet he'd have some good advise. 

And right now may not be the best time to go job seeking. Lots of people are looking for work.

For me, I'd love to go teach at a college/university part time. I want to try to make a difference. I had some great professors and some terrible ones.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

i'll 2nd caddis. plan for later but don't change anything up until opportunities are solid.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

rtockstein said:


> If you were going to switch things up at 33 years of age with no idea what job you'd be happy with long term, what would you do?


I'd first make **** sure that the job is where my source of discontent is, and see if there might be other areas in my life that I could adjust things to increase my overall life satisfaction. In your described situation, I would identify what parts of my job are leaving me unfulfilled/unsatisfied. It sucks to hear, but it is very possible that those feelings would surface no matter what you end up doing--it is called work for a reason.

If you are absolutely positive that you cannot improve that feeling by focusing on things outside of work (family, hobbies, etc.) AND that you think a career change can improve that, then I would take a really hard look at the employment market right now. I would be hard pressed to find a worse time in the past few decades for somebody to be thinking about making a major career shift.

But if all of that doesn't dissuade you, then identify what it is you are needing in a work environment and look into what fields check those boxes.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Starting over at 33 can be tough. 

I moved to Colorado when I was 34 to a new job with the same company and into a economy where I lived paycheck to paycheck for quite a while. But one thing that I enjoyed about my job was that I saw different things every day even if I was doing the same job day in and day out. 

Finding a job that you love going to every day is tough and doesn't get any easier the older you get especially if you end up taking a pay cut when you do find one. 

I would say for you to take a real had look at what you like doing or what you really want for a job and then work towards that job. As Caddis mentioned right now would not be a good time to actually venture out to try to find a new job, even 6 or more months from now might not even be the time. But if you decide on what type of job you really want and feel like you would enjoy it now would be the time to start working towards it.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Re-read Johnny's post.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You know, for a 17 year old, tushycake has some wisdom! 

I’ve been where you are rtockstein. But it was my employer making me absolutely miserable. A change a little over 4 years ago has worked out in every single conceivable way possible. I wouldn’t have been looking because I actually really loved the work, I just couldn’t stand who I was working for. You have to figure out what is causing the angst. Otherwise you may be changing the wrong thing.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I have recently had many of the same feelings you have described. I was so close to just quitting my 20 year career most days I could taste it...I too have everything a person at my age could or should want from life and absolutely no reason to complain or be unhappy. But I was.

So, I started looking for a change in my career, something that would allow me to continue my years of service but provide more challenge or at least something DIFFERENT! I was borderline desperate, applying for every job I found even mildly interesting.

My poor attitude showed in my work, my home life, my relationships, etc. 

I did finally get offered a different position within the same division. Same pay, different role and it has helped a lot. Don't know if it will in the long term but for now I'm appeased.

I can't tell you about the economy, job market, uncertainty, etc. but I can tell you that it is VERY likely that those around you already know you are not happy. Be open about it. Invite the opinions and input from your friends and family. If you are not happy and despise getting up every morning then you really are not living and nobody is going to change it for you. 

Life is too short to live it unhappily so set your mind on a change and go for it full throttle. Doesn't matter what it is in the end as long as you enjoy it.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Loved the meat business for 35 years, hated it for the last 10. Some new big shot comes in and thinks he has all of the knowledge, and you get thrown under the bus. I was soooo happy to retire.8)


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

One thing I learned after setting my career goal at 5 years old is that there are absolutely no jobs being a ninja cowboy billionaire astronaut. Believe me. I look regularly. 

But I understand that rut. Truthfully I think we all hit it at one point or another. 

My only advice to you is search for key words on indeed.com that interest you. You can find all sorts of cool jobs that would probably meet your needs if you kept your mind open. 

A while back I almost took a job as a firearms procurement manager for a retailer but realized that I didn’t want to travel that much for work and not see my kids.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Well, I'm still in that rut after losing my career 4 years ago through market downturn and layoff with really no chance of being able to get back into it.

So, I took a job (what now shows to be out of desparation) in what I thought would be in my original degree field. It hasn't been. So, in thinking about what my future holds, as clear as anyone else's crystal ball, I thought about starting up a fishing guide business. 

My wife and I are literally debt free and thought I could ease into it as she finishes her Masters in math education and then go full time. I did an online course and got my MMC (aka "captain's license"). Then I thought, why not get an MBA as well as my wife finishes her education up, since the company I work for would pay for it.

Then I realized that all an MBA would do is put me in the competition bracket with 200 others vying for 1 position at a company as maybe an upper level manager.

So, you can see a pattern here, I seem to be running from something instead of running to something. 

Then, COVID 19 hit and has shut down outdoor recreation in my state at a critical time to book a couple of weekend trips to get my feet wet in taking land lubbers out for a day of fishing.

So, as the months have rolled by, the weirdest thought came, I need to get a graduate degree and for some reason an M.Ed is the route I should take. Not a licensed position, but more on program administration/academic and career advisor type roles. It also sets me up for corporate training. I still have an MMC, own a boat, and can get set up with relatively low start up costs.

My long winded story is trying to build the case of don't spin your wheels prospecting about what you know, spend some time investigating what you don't know and what may interest you. Investigate what options may exist for further training and education and where you may fit in over the next year or two because how America does business in some facets is fixin' to change. 

Lots of opportunites for an online education these days, and if all else fails you can always become a lawyer, there'll be a large demand for them in the future!

Sorry 'nilla and johnny, couldn't resist...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> Lots of opportunites for an online education these days, and if all else fails you can always become a lawyer, there'll be a large demand for them in the future!
> 
> Sorry 'nilla and johnny, couldn't resist...


Oversaturated market in Utah, and the cost of a law degree is outrageous these days!

The legal field was one of the hardest hit in the last big recession in '08, and one of the slowest to come back. Lots of people needing services, and not very many of them able/willing to pay for it. The law is not recession proof, unfortunately.

But if anyone is considering, I'd be happy to talk you out of it.  Or just talk about it. Either way.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

Maybe you're the type of person who just needs new challenges and learning opportunities periodically. You mentioned teaching 4 years and now this for 7 years--maybe you've just got the itch to learn something new and grow. Lots of others have good advice about looking at interests, considering options within your company, etc... I'm just pointing out that it may not be dissatisfaction. Rather, it may be some internal drive to grow/achieve/change or something like that.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm 39 & was with my previous employer for 11 years. Initially it was great, and they turned me into a subject matter expert in my field. My last year and a half was spent constantly looking over my shoulder and I was passed over on 3 occasions for positional promotions for candidates who were less qualified. 
The writing was clearly on the wall that the company had a future... I just wasn't a part of it. So late last summer I updated my LinkedIn profile and within a couple hours a recruiter contacted me with an opportunity to become an independent consultant. I accepted a contract with a large company that I was familiar with and had a number of previous relationships already built. When I gave my former employer two weeks notice they were incredulous, asking me repeatedly how I could walk away from them after all they had done for me. Gratefully, 10 days of my 2 weeks notice were spent in Alaska and I returned excited to make the change. 
That last year and a half was gut wrenching, stressful, depressing, and one of the hardest things I've ever been through... but it's been seven months since the change & I can honestly say it was the best move I could have ever made.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Also keep in mind that right now with everything going on in the world, it is easy to feel like your situation is hopeless and getting worse by the day...

Just remember that the sun will still rise over the ridge while you're on the mountain to enjoy it and that everything looks better in the fall.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> But if anyone is considering, I'd be happy to talk you out of it.  Or just talk about it. Either way.


Jim Rasband said "There are some dishonest lawyers out there, but don't let a few hundred thousand bad apples ruin the whole apple cart."

I laughed at that. I gave serious thought to JD/MBA route when I got my masters, but it ultimately didn't work out that way. In a way, I wish I would have as I love law and it was always my favorite (and best) subject all through undergrad and grad school.

There's rich lawyers and then there's honest ones.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

caddis8 said:


> Jim Rasband said "There are some dishonest lawyers out there, but don't let a few hundred thousand bad apples ruin the whole apple cart."
> 
> There's rich lawyers and then there's honest ones.


Haha. Lines of the year!!! 
I do have a couple lawyers I like- for some reason they always tell me I'm right- even if everyone else tells me I'm wrong. Including the judge.....

..


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Packout said:


> I do have a couple lawyers I like- for some reason they always tell me I'm right- even if everyone else tells me I'm wrong. Including the judge....


You pay lawyers to like you. They stop after you stop paying.

My business law teacher at Utah State would give us money or points if we could tell him a lawyer joke he hadn't heard or could make him laugh.

I heard some great ones.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Thanks for all of the awesome advice and kinds words!!! 

One thing I didn't mention, is that I'm firmly stuck here for awhile due to the nature of the job market and current COVID status. Making a career change RIGHT NOW definitely doesn't sit well with me. Even though my wife has a great, very stable job, I feel that it's best for my family that we both keep our jobs until things have turned around in the world. She makes better pay than I do, but given what she constantly deals with with her employer, I don't think I'd ever work there and I commend her for dealing with it as well as she does. She's much better at working on her work place mental health and finding ways to be positive there, even though her work place is far less conducive to satisfaction than mine. She sees her job as a means to fulfill the rest of her life, outside of her work rather than it being an important passion filled part of her life, as opposed to how I've always chased my passion for careers. She's told me a few times she thinks I'm capable of hating any job I would have. I'm thinking she may be right to an extent. I've been battling this feeling for awhile now but never made a move on it due to feeling like I don't know what I'd be qualified to do, being scared to start over, or even whether or not the problem is actually my job or it's just within me.

I am one of those people than enjoys learning something new, so maybe it is just time for that to happen. On the other hand, beer is nearly recession proof!

One thing my mind keeps going back to is wildlife photography. I know they struggle and make nearly zilch unless they're also a writer, so that's daunting. I know absolutely nothing about photography, but I can't think of anything better than spending a large amount of time outside looking for animals that I can "shoot" all day long. I went through a long period that when I was hunting whitetail, I couldn't care less about shooting anything. I most enjoyed just sitting and watching them, watching the squirrels and birds, etc.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Well, then learn about it and turn it to a side hustle. When the side hustle makes more than the regular job, then you're off and running. 

I will say that the market for photography and influencers on social media has changed the photography game, for positive and negative. 

Negative, there are a lot more photographers now- see family and wedding photographers. Anyone with a DSLR and Lightroom can be a proffessional. 

Positive, you can get a lot of followers and make a boatload of money doing it. 

To me, and no offense meant here at all- it seems like you're a person that may not be satisfied with life, always looking for something new or more. Not saying that in a negative way at all. I know lots of them. Some are always chasing the next thing thinking they'll be satisfied with the next job, gun, fly rod, dog, truck, or trinket, which will always leave you chasing. 

Not getting nostalgic here at all. It's all about where you place your value and identity. My job is important to me becuase I'm a hard work and I value hard work. I want to always improve- think "Good to Great." I don't think there is anything that is ever perfect and I'm always trying to improve processes and outcomes. That isn't to say I'm perpetually dissatisfied- quite the contrary. I just love the feeling of getting something really right, into a process that is repeatable and scalable. Taking chaos and finding order in it- usually through data. I love doing that over and over again. I've been pretty successful in doing that, which leads me to great satisfaction. 

In a previous life, I was in the dream job. Worked for Cabela's managing the Big Game Hunting Category. It was north of $100 million and I had an integral role in the strategy and product from product to design, to assortment selection, training, sales, promotion, retail collaboration, all of it. I had a super supportive boss who mentored me through that. Previous boss had his thumb on me and didn't want me to learn from mistakes because he didn't want mistakes. I was able to create scaleable and repeatable processes out of that and it felt amazing. We were able to make meaningful business changes and profitability increases by more effectively managing inventory and reducing carryover inventory. We had it when the customer wanted it, and were out when they didn't need it. 

I loved that job. I would still be in that job without the Bass Pro/Cabela's Merger and I would have retired from that job with that boss hopefully. More than the job, I miss the people and relationships I had built with people all over the industry from treestand manufacturers to game cameras and everything in between. 

The relationships we build are more important the job. 

My mantra for work and life is "Everyone needs to be needed." When people feel needed and heard, they will walk through fire for you. It doesn't have as much to do with pay and benefits, but more about buying into the idea of everyone on the team is needed for collective success. It's been successful at work and other endeavors. 

So, do some soul searching and figure out what isn't working out and what you don't enjoy or what is the source of the discontent is- and then address it. Likely it has very little to do with the job. Every job has crappy things and every company has crappy people. There were times I didn't love going to work, but I was needed. And I knew I was needed and I needed members of my team to help the customer be successful, happy, and enjoy the dream hunt they'd worked and saved to do. That was hugely rewarding. 

Long story short, find out where the burr is under the saddle. If you want a side hustle, find it. But our hobbies that we turn into jobs can be tough. Trust me.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I've shared this on here before, but it seems fitting again:

"Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he’s been robbed. Most putts don’t drop. Most beef is tough. Most children grow up to be just people. Most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual toleration. Most jobs are more often dull than otherwise. Life is like an old time rail journey–delays, sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders, and jolts, interspersed only occasionally by beautiful vistas and thrilling bursts of speed. The trick is to be thankful for the ride."


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

CPA- well put. 

I think we are always wanting what we don’t have. Careers are tough when we feel like we are stagnating and not growing


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

CPAjeff said:


> I've shared this on here before, but it seems fitting again:
> 
> "Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he's been robbed. Most putts don't drop. Most beef is tough. Most children grow up to be just people. Most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual toleration. Most jobs are more often dull than otherwise. Life is like an old time rail journey-delays, sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders, and jolts, interspersed only occasionally by beautiful vistas and thrilling bursts of speed. The trick is to be thankful for the ride."


I've heard that before, in another context. -Ov-


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

rtockstein said:


> I've been battling this feeling for awhile now but never made a move on it due to feeling like I don't know what I'd be qualified to do, being scared to start over, or even whether or not the problem is actually my job or it's just within me.
> 
> I am one of those people than enjoys learning something new, so maybe it is just time for that to happen. On the other hand, beer is nearly recession proof!


I don't know you from Adam and please forgive any of my assumptions...

Money will NOT buy you happiness. It can actually make the issues you are struggling with in your head worse or turn them into something altogether different/worse depending on the circumstances by which you obtained it.

Long story but trust me on this one.

I'll say it again, rely on family and friends as much as you possibly can. It sounds to me that we are like minded. You my friend are lacking a challenge in either your career, hobbies or relationships.

Some men absolutely NEED challenge, struggle and change to keep them "happy". It is as necessary to us as breathing is to others. Find a project, hobby, new job, old job in a new/expanded role, etc. in order to get the challenge your body and mind are craving. You will not be you without it.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Catherder said:


> I've heard that before, in another context. -Ov-


Jones or Hinckley?

I actually prefer the entire quotation from Jones, but G.B. Hinckley was/is a stud!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

CPAjeff said:


> Jones or Hinckley?
> 
> I actually prefer the entire quotation from Jones, but G.B. Hinckley was/is a stud!


Hinckley.:O||:


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

KineKilla said:


> I don't know you from Adam and please forgive any of my assumptions...
> 
> Money will NOT buy you happiness. It can actually make the issues you are struggling with in your head worse or turn them into something altogether different/worse depending on the circumstances by which you obtained it.
> 
> ...


+1

I chose a very challenging career, and that helps me stay sane, though stressed.

I've also found that I'm not satisfied unless I believe deep down that my job is important and is making a difference.

My opinion is that money magnifies your pre-existing tendencies. I've seen generous people acquire wealth and become even more generous. When I started making money, I found that it enabled me to chase vices that were previously unavailable to me... not good. :neutral:


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

That's all incredibly sound and helpful advice. I appreciate every bit of it!

Caddis, I think I'm certainly a "chaser" to some degree and need to figure out how to prevent that being a detriment to my happiness. 

Kinekilla, I also am fueled by stress and challenges. Even though when something stressful and terrible is happening at work (like a huge recall for example) I feel like I'm at my best. Weird how that works!

I'll have to do some searching and experimenting here at my current job to see if I can make some difference!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Any interest in starting your own craft brew?


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