# Deseret late season cow hunts - unethical methods



## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

So I wondering if anyone's experience on the Deseret CWMU this year was anything like a fellow hunter I know. Apparently the outfitter that currently holds the hunting lease for the unit is using unorthodox methods and perhaps unethical on the late season cow hunts. What was shared with me by a tag holder was the outfitter would repeatedly chase down groups of elk using their trucks in an effort to get the tag holders in shooting range as well as pushing the elk towards other tag holders, essentially an elk round-up of sorts. Trucks racing out over sagebrush flats chasing elk, not exactly my idea of hunting.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Oh no, another ethics thread.....


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## Antlers&Fish (Nov 21, 2013)

If this really did happen then hopefully your buddy stood up for his beliefs, if not isn't that unethical. It should also be reported to the authorities. Sorry to sound so rude, but don't care much for these "I heard stories."


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I think they have been doing that up there for several years now. 
If I was hunting up there and my guide did that, I probably would say something like..."oh crap, I'm going to have to give that guy a bigger tip, just so he can repair his truck". 

I just see it as a different way of hunting than the way you may do it, that's all.
I'd advise you not to put in for that unit or stay away from all the other hunters.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I too have heard alarming things but on a general season hunt. Lots of these guys called "road hunters" not sure I spelled that correctly but these unethical people drive around all day and they'll hop out of their vehicle and shoot deer, they'll even use their truck doors and hoods as a gun rest. very alarming stuff, spread the word, lets find these people and shame them!


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

you have the option to drive your own vehicle now so if you don't like road hunting like they do. then you can do it any way that pleases you, hell you can even walk if that is what you want.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

While it's winter and there is nothing better to do, we should compose a list of all the activities deemed unethical by people on this forum. Should be good for a laugh. ------SS


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

+What?/ A Deseret thread and no helicopters yet????.....


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I almost went to high school with the uncle of a guy that had a DLL cow elk CWMU tag. He said the wolves run all the elk off DLL and they are holed up at the Evingston horse race track...uh........the elk are holed up at the Evingston horse race tract, not the wolves.


Nevermind, I just wanted to see if I could get to the top of the page.

.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I had a Deseret cow tag this year. So I can give you a first hand account of what goes on there, not just something you heard from your monkey's uncle. 

I did not do the guided option, I did the hosted hunt. But I was able to follow a guide the entire time so he might as well have been my guide. Yes, we did use our trucks to find the elk. The numerous guides up there (I believe that day there were 10 hunters up there) were in communication as they WANT you to shoot your elk. We even drove at high speeds to try and get out in front of a herd where we thought they would end up going. And there were even other trucks and hunters around with their guides. Further, yes, technically at times this was on sage brush flats, except for we never left the road...so not totally correct saying chasing elk down on sage brush flats in trucks for an elk 'round up.' These are still wild elk and do what they want. A few different herds gave us the slip before finally getting a shot. If you are looking for a good old fashion wear the leather off your boots cow hunt, don't put in for Deseret. Because that is not what you get, especially late in the season. But I had fun, and realizing I was on a hunt that exists entirely for herd number management, it didn't bother me doing road hunting. It allowed me to take my 6 year old daughter with me and we had a great time and my freezer is full of elk meat. I just need my daughter to turn 12 so I can put her in there.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> +What?/ A Deseret thread and no helicopters yet????.....


Yeah, wasn't Deseret the outfit that dropped sacks of flour on elk herds to move them onto their land? :shock:;-)


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## tander123 (Sep 21, 2007)

TS30 is right on


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## Buckfinder (May 23, 2009)

For all those that have complaints about Deseret, don't put in for the tags and go hunt somewhere else. I've been on two hunts there and had nothing but a positive experience.


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## K Lark (Sep 13, 2013)

do gooders always complain bout something; where was them guy during this gay marriage thing? yep, worry bout yourself and not what a ranch that allows some who may not harvest an elk to get one;


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

How many points did you/your uncles neighbor/ your best friends twice removed cousins brother in law have to draw the cow hjnt? I have 3 points from putting in for cache.. Very disappointing knowing the huge increases in tags. At this point I might as well go cwmu.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Everyone with 3 or more points drew it this year. Some drew with 2 points as well. You really have to know ahead of time what you're going into. This is a meat hunt, pure and simple. Almost everyone will kill their cow on the day scheduled. The guides work hard to make sure that happens, even for just the hosted hunters. That may turn some people off, especially those that think any other way of hunting an animal besides the way they do it is unethical. But it worked perfectly for what I was going for this year.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

TS30 said:


> Everyone with 3 or more points drew it this year. Some drew with 2 points as well. You really have to know ahead of time what you're going into. This is a meat hunt, pure and simple. Almost everyone will kill their cow on the day scheduled. The guides work hard to make sure that happens, even for just the hosted hunters. That may turn some people off, especially those that think any other way of hunting an animal besides the way they do it is unethical. But it worked perfectly for what I was going for this year.


I am down to about 30lbs of elk. I am going to "grocery shop" so I am fine with how it sounds.

Was your late season? Did you have input on your dates? And how many days do they give you?

Thanks for your information!!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

When you draw you are given a day that you are required to go to Lee Kay (or a place in Logan, I believe) and 'qualify' by hitting an 8x11 inch piece of paper 3 out of 4 times at 100 yards. After qualifying they will schedule your hunt date there on the spot. I had received a packet with the possible dates prior to, and you will get to pick the date you go up and if you want to do the guided option or hosted option. (More on that in a second) It is anticipated that you will get your elk the first day. They will schedule you a second day if you are not successful the first time. The hunt dates were all in November and December, but they said they wouldn't allow hunting after Dec 21. Mine was in December. 

Guided option: Costs $150. You ride with the guide in his truck. You are not able to bring a guest (unless you are under 18 or a female). The guide guts your elk and gets it to your truck for you. Basically does everything but pull the trigger for you. 

Hosted Option: Costs nothing, but you're in you own truck, clean your own animal, and get it to your truck yourself. You may bring one guest with you on this option. We were still assigned a guide the morning of the hunt. Mine was great. He had me follow him everywhere, kept communicating to me what his plans were, socialized with us, and even held a leg for me while I cleaned my elk. He helped me load it and was a great help all around. Not sure if the other hosted hunters were as lucky, but I imagine they were.


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

Yes racing out across sage brush flats is exactly what happens. The person I know is a close relative, so the info I was given is not from someones brothers uncles cousin. Look I find it interesting that this method of hunting is allowed, private land or not. I really shouldn't call it hunting, it's more of a chase and shoot. I find it interesting how many people or O.K. with it including the DWR. I know similar methods used by some shed hunters in the past have caused a big stir.
I guess for many the bottom line is they have meat in there freezer and it doesn't matter how it gets there.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

GSPonPoint said:


> Yes racing out across sage brush flats is exactly what happens. The person I know is a close relative, so the info I was given is not from someones brothers uncles cousin. Look I find it interesting that this method of hunting is allowed, private land or not. I really shouldn't call it hunting, it's more of a chase and shoot. I find it interesting how many people or O.K. with it including the DWR. I know similar methods used by some shed hunters in the past have caused a big stir.
> I guess for many the bottom line is they have meat in there freezer and it doesn't matter how it gets there.


It is a questionable method, I understand that. However, elk are fast. And they can hit the trees. A lot will leave the ranch after that I imagine. It does stur them up and post rut may be a bad thing. Gotta figure though, public land gets more pressure just not from trucks. And its not like the dwr has never chased animals. Interesting to look at two sides of it though.

Wonder how many late season cows that get killed are pregnant..


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

GSPonPoint said:


> So I wondering if anyone's experience on the Deseret CWMU this year was anything like a fellow hunter I know. Apparently the outfitter that currently holds the hunting lease for the unit is using unorthodox methods and perhaps unethical on the late season cow hunts. What was shared with me by a tag holder was the outfitter would repeatedly chase down groups of elk using their trucks in an effort to get the tag holders in shooting range as well as pushing the elk towards other tag holders, essentially an elk round-up of sorts. Trucks racing out over sagebrush flats chasing elk, not exactly my idea of hunting.


I'm callin BS.


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## RichardClarke (Nov 5, 2011)

In the early 1990's I hunted on Deseret for cow elk. Back then they had two hunts, a mountain hunt and a ranch hunt. The mountain hunt was earlier and was in places like Killfoil canyon, trail canyon, etc. It was a real hunt on the morgan-weber county part of their ranch. The later hunt was down low by the ranch in Rich County. It was not for me. It was like TS30 has said, a bunch of people driving around in trucks trying to head off a herd of elk. Again it was not for me and I have never gone back. Everyone has their own constitution and set of standards and ethics. Again it was not for me....


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

I participated in this hunt last year, and I can confirm the hunting methods used. All I have to say about that hunt was.....

IT WAS A DANG GOOD TIME!!! That was my kinda hunting  I'd just be grateful the guys actually got out of their trucks to shoot  I'd sign up for that again in a second! Herding elk with trucks at 40+ mph, shooting bullets at them every chance you can, is a ton of fun. Give it a try some time. It's not as "unethical" as you might think haha:mrgreen:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

> Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-14
> You may not use an airplane or any other
> airborne vehicle or device, *or any motorized
> terrestrial* or aquatic vehicle (except a vessel)-
> ...


Law seems pretty clear, if critters even get bumped by a vehicle, you cannot shoot at them, no matter if the vehicle is apart of your hunting party or just a random vehicle going down a road.

No idea what goes on in DLL though.

-DallanC


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

horn hunter said:


> I participated in this hunt last year, and I can confirm the hunting methods used. All I have to say about that hunt was.....
> 
> IT WAS A DANG GOOD TIME!!! That was my kinda hunting  I'd just be grateful the guys actually got out of their trucks to shoot  I'd sign up for that again in a second! Herding elk with trucks at 40+ mph, shooting bullets at them every chance you can, is a ton of fun. Give it a try some time. It's not as "unethical" as you might think haha:mrgreen:


Wouldn't expect anything else from a poacher right Shaun?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Wonder how many late season cows that get killed are pregnant..


Mine was. And the other cow I witnessed get shot was as well. Was told most cows shot in December on the ranch are.

I can totally see how this kind of hunting would not be for everyone. In fact, it's not something I would want to do myself every year. It's my 2nd time hunting DL&L for a cow (previous was 1999) and they were 2 pretty different experiences. But both were a good time, and both fulfilled the purpose.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

TS30 said:


> Mine was. And the other cow I witnessed get shot was as well. Was told most cows shot in December on the ranch are.
> 
> I can totally see how this kind of hunting would not be for everyone. In fact, it's not something I would want to do myself every year. It's my 2nd time hunting DL&L for a cow (previous was 1999) and they were 2 pretty different experiences. But both were a good time, and both fulfilled the purpose.


Thanks for the info. It isn't my preferred method. I just understand that if I put in for a high success area, then I am going to be under the wing of management and the methods they use for high success. I know of another cwmu with great success, but it is a very long drive and usually only lasts a day also. Real hunting, but you will harvest day one. Would cost me At Least another $600 then deseret and then I may have to deal with transporting the animal in the heat of early season. So for me with 3 points and my properties lack of elk lately, deseret really seems like the most reasonable option to fill the freezer. I would never hunt this way for a trophy or even an antlered general season. However, I would like to have some success and get some meat, and don't have anywhere else to go. So what do you do?

Also, I feel like at least one hunt at DL&L is on my hunting bucket list. I can't imagine the dwr doesn't review a ranch as big as deseret but i don't know anything.

Thanks for your time and information on the matter! Its been helpful.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-14
You may not use an airplane or any other
airborne vehicle or device, *or any motorized
terrestrial* or aquatic vehicle (except a vessel)-
including snowmobiles and other recreational
vehicles-to take protected wildlife, including
big game.

*Also, you may not take protected wildlife
that are being chased,* harmed, harassed, *rallied,
herded, flushed, pursued or moved* by an aircraft
or any other vehicle or *transportation device
listed above*.

^^^^^ The mosy commonly broken law in Utah right there..^^^^^

It's really not even enforced, Unless you are shooting out of the back of
a truck----Or dont get out of your seat of ur Razor ....
Very, very unlikly you'll ever get a ticket.... Just dosn't happen.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I was afforded this DLL hunt this year. My first experience with a real paid guided hunt and I was thrilled! My goal was to fill my tag! And I did.

All of the guides work really hard to get the shooters onto an animal. The ranches goal is to fill 80% of the tags that have been allotted, more if possible.

The herds of elk on the ranch are very skittish and in order for the guides to get their clients into shooting positions on these herds they have to drive their trucks over some pretty nasty roads to get ahead of the moving herds. I found NOTHING unethical about their means to get that done.

The herds move very quickly and the guides use radio contact to inform the other guides as to the movement direction(s) of the herds and those guides try to get their client into a position for a shot when the herd finally does cross in front of them. Shots vary from less than 50 yards to around 400 yards. Most shots are 200 plus yards. At least that is what I saw first hand.

It is not the helter schelter driving through the sagebrush, hopping ditches and driving like idiots this thread started out implicating. These guys stay on the roads and they know exactly what they are doing all the time. Sure, they go fast when the situation calls for it, but they still maintain as safe an environment for the client as they can.

In a nut shell, they are NOT harassing the herds, nor are they chasing them, they are trying to get in front of them and when the herds start to scatter, the radios are going full tilt with instructions for how to get a guide and his clients ahead of a break off group. To someone on the outside, not hearing the radio chatter, I suppose it would look like a round up of some kind, but trust me it is not.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-14
You may not use an airplane or any other
airborne vehicle or device, *or any motorized
terrestrial* or aquatic vehicle (except a vessel)-
including snowmobiles and other recreational
vehicles-to take protected wildlife, including
big game.

*Also, you may not take protected wildlife
that are being chased,* harmed, harassed, *rallied,
herded, flushed, pursued or moved* by an aircraft
or any other vehicle or *transportation device
listed above*.

Can you imagine the chatter on the forums if this were to be enforced?? This statute can be interpreted as outlawing all road hunting....Utah's seemingly most preferred method!


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

The reason that it is not enforced is because it is vague.....how do you use a vehicle to take game? And how do you avoid using a vehicle to get to where thee game are? Where is the line between transportation and use to take? I would say that the law would need some improved language before being actively enforced. 

For example, a road hunter could easily use a vehicle to travel on the road, when he sees an animal, he parks his vehicle, gets out, and starts hunting. Explain how his law is broken. Maybe the law should make it illegal to take game within 15 minutes of traveling in a vehicles that would be enforceable. Or maybe road hunters should just be left alone as they provide lots of good opportunity for the rest of us.----------SS


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

.........on the other hand, according to this law, wouldn't hitting a deer with your car be a violation?-------SS


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Come on guys, we know what this hunt is all about before we even put in for the tag. Nothing makes me feel like I've earned my animal more than to stalk it in it's bed and shoot it or pattern a whitetail and be there when he shows up next. Even something as un-climatic as sitting over a waterhole, BUT, if farmer John calls me up and says "come shoot this cow in my coral and it yours", I'd waltz right in there and ........................... These cow hunts are far away from that but really, aren't you going up there to shoot an elk, enjoy the outdoors, experience something different and hunt with friends? I doubt DLL is doing anything unethical. They're way too famous and always under the public's scrutiny to try stuff like that. Draw your tag and go have fun.
Sounds like another helicopter story to me.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

And another thing, how many of you antelope hunt? Unless I'm bowhunting, most of what I do is drive around and look for antelope. If I see some out of range on a far-off ridge, I drive around and try to get closer. Isn't that what these guys are doing with elk? To me?...same-same.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

What longbow said....


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

^^^^^^This!^^^^^^^


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

so how does one go about "........................."?


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

+1 to airborne that made me spit milk


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I've done the cow hunt on DLL twice. Once before they sold the hunting, and again in 2012. I've posted my experiences.

One thing worthy of mention. The elk on DLL are probably the heaviest hunted elk in the state. They are hunted non-stop from September, through the end of December and into January in some years. Once the bull hunts are over and the cow hunts commence, usually after the rut, the bulls group up, and the cows group up, a few younger bulls mixed in with the cows. Both times I've been up there late season, we've seen hundreds of bulls, calm as can be, within 100 yards, but had a hard time getting within 1/2 mile of the cows. 

I'll attest that the DLL late hunt is more pick-up truck rodeo than even what I'd call traditional road hunting. The elk get pushed very hard. But it is what it is. It is not for everyone. Do not expect a spot and stalk, stealthy wilderness hunting experience. It will be a great time, you'll see lots of animals, and do some hard driving in the truck to get them. And you'll fill your tag. I've been twice, and continue to put in for it. But that's just me. If it isn't your kind of deal, then don't put in. There are plenty of other hunts that offer a totally different experience.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

oh come on wyogoob! I was just quoting longbow's post #33 above :grin: That was pretty darn funny!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Airborne said:


> oh come on wyogoob! I was just quoting longbow's post #33 above :grin: That was pretty darn funny!


Thanks Airborne. I was going to use the search engine because I couldn't find where that came from. It was funny though.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Haha it makes me lol when people want to "hunt" late season cow elk... It's a cow for hell sakes..wintering...

If you want a challenge take a bow! Don't go to Deseret or any late season cow hunt for that matter! 

:grin:


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I just received my first censorship on UWF...dang. Was it the thunder word? Am I banned to a dark corner, cold and shivering with rough company like GutPile? I'll be good warden.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

seems pretty simple if you don't like the way they hunt the wintering elk on DLL than put in for tags elsewere. its a meat hunt plain and simple the land owners are tring to get the elk numbers that are wintering on the property in line to what the property can handle. I have been on this particular hunt several times and while there are days its a slam dunk there are also days when even with the guides its a struggle to find the cows herds. it can get wild but at no time did I get the idea it was out of control but again if you want to walk down long areas of cover to sneak on a herd and take a animal that way if may be smart to either go earlier in the year on the ranch are go to another area were you can hunt as you wish. the ranch wants you to be successful and to have a hunt you can have fun with but it is a control hunt to reduce numbers.


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

I never said anything about hopping ditches, or driving like idots, however, the driving like idots is not too far off. The person I know that had the tag was my niece, this was to be her first elk harvest. She said she was literally hitting her head on the top of the cab bouncing up and down. The guide ended up breaking his truck and rendered it undrivable. By the way they weren't always on roads. They literally were chase through the sage brush. 
I guess I was pretty shocked when I heard about the methods used. I never knew such behaviors were legally allowed in the hunting community. I guess I had an entirely different idea in my head about DLL. 

People can rationalize and try to justify anything in their minds to make them selves feel better about any situation and that fine for them.

Bottom line, maybe this thread has educated a few people on what goes on at DLL. In the past I've put in for the hunt thinking it would be a good experience with a high success rate. My opinion has certainly changed.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

So you walk in and act like you are the authority on such matters, and your perspective is second hand from your niece pretty telling numerous others here they are wrong when their perspective comes from their own personal experiences. Doesn't that seem out of whack to you a little bit? 

Maybe...just a little?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Did your niece get her elk?
If so, did she feel it was worth it or would she rather not have killed one?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I like Ridges point.....if you stayed and killed an elk, you whining is totally hypocritical. If you are mad enough to call an outfitter out by name on a public forum, you shouldn't be doing it with a mouth full of elk meat. What's the story?--------SS


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Took my pickup out to the flats today, stayed away from roads and hit as many bumps as possible. Getting really excited for a DLL elk baja 5000.

I wonder if, given the opportunity for the small cost of a utah cow elk, these ethical hunters would hunt a high fence or elk farm? I mean, I don't love em, unless you told me it was under $200 then I honestly might change my mind. Do they eat beef? Just because it says free range doesnt mean it wasn't hearded and shot in the skull.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

I do remember my first DLL cow hunt. from the black stealth helicopter, we ran em about 5 miles till we got them all rounded up from neighboring public land and some from other private ranches and they were all good and sweaty, then we dropped the big 50 lb flour sacks on em which coated them very nice and white. after that, we hit em with the pepper and seasoned salt, pushed just a bit farther to the vats of heated oil, when we opened up the twin 50 cal's on each side of the ship, the just fell in and cooked instantly. fortunately we had the big slotted spoon on cable beneath the ship and we just lowered it in, took a dozen or so and flew to Randolph where we invited the entire town to winter feast. pretty sure that's how it went, memory is getting more like goobs every day...


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Kingfisher said:


> I do remember my first DLL cow hunt. from the black stealth helicopter, we ran em about 5 miles till we got them all rounded up from neighboring public land and some from other private ranches and they were all good and sweaty, then we dropped the big 50 lb flour sacks on em which coated them very nice and white. after that, we hit em with the pepper and seasoned salt, pushed just a bit farther to the vats of heated oil, when we opened up the twin 50 cal's on each side of the ship, the just fell in and cooked instantly. fortunately we had the big slotted spoon on cable beneath the ship and we just lowered it in, took a dozen or so and flew to Randolph where we invited the entire town to winter feast. pretty sure that's how it went, memory is getting more like goobs every day...


So what you are saying is you DID do the guided option?


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

yes, the 'premium' guided option...


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Sounds like exactly the kind of hunt I'd be looking for to burn a handful of preference points and go shoot some cow elk with my 74 year old grandfather who prefers to just ride the roads anyway. To have one last hurrah with man who's taught me virtually everything I know about hunting before it's too late it sounds like it would fit the bill nicely.

If it were just me and a couple young buddies, probably wouldn't be what we are looking for. But, there will be plenty of time to hunt "my way" down the road.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

GSPonPoint, I'm one that has been on the hunt, and can easily see that your niece's description as you have provided it, could be right spot on to her experience. On both my trips, the guides ventured well off the roads, cutting across the flats, bouncing around over ditches, brush, etc... trying to get in front of the herds. This was my experience also. I was smart enough to buckle in, so I didn't hit my head, but I could easily see that happening. At no time did we chase the elk, because that is just fruitless since the elk can outrun the trucks. But we did try to get ahead of where they were headed in an effort to get them as they crossed roads, or the like. And the guides absolutely abused their trucks doing it. Which is EXACTLY why I did the guided option - in no way did I want to abuse my truck like that. I did tip my guide an extra c-note at the end of the day, figuring if he didn't break his truck that day, he would by the end of the year and would need the money to fix it. 

But the reality of it all, is that the hunting guides there make all their money from the bull elk hunts. Half the cow hunts, they make nothing at all. It is all about managing the numbers. I know as part of the hunting lease arrangement they have with DLL, is that they are responsible to feed them through the winter if that is necessary. And that can be a HUGE expense. And it is one they take on if necessary, as their jobs depend on there being a healthy elk herd there. And they know what they are doing in managing the herd size for the habitats on the ranch. 

I like Tommy and his boys though. They are good guys. Tommy ran the hunting there as an employee of DLL for years before DLL sold the hunting operation to him. He knows what he is doing. He knows the ranch, he knows the elk, and he knows very well how to manage it all. He and his sons, as well as the other guides do their best to show hunters a good time and harvest a cow elk. They put in long hours, tons of hard work, and abuse the total crap out of their trucks doing it. If you take it for what it is - a meat hunt, where you'll probably seen a couple hundred of very nice bulls, some nice trophy deer, maybe some pronghorn and a moose or two, or even a wolf like I saw on my first hunt up there in 2009. It is a totally different experience that can be fun if you let it. 

And has been said, it is not for everyone. And that is OK. I've enjoyed it for what it is though and will continue to put in for it. But that's just me.


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

WooHooo! I'm going next week with my grandson. Sounds like a good time. We went in November and it was too foggy to see much.

There are many styles/types of hunting. He knows all hunting is not like this but this will just add experience to his young life. I'm looking forward to see him get a chance to shoot an elk. I'm also going to suggest to him a nice tender calf, but then it will ultimately be his and his guides decision. That statement ought to rile a few of you up too but as has been stated, it is a meat hunt.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

blackdog said:


> I'm callin BS.


So , Blackdog, Still call'in BS ????

Seem to be ALOT of consitentcy to these stories.....


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Kingfisher said:


> I do remember my first DLL cow hunt. from the black stealth helicopter, we ran em about 5 miles till we got them all rounded up from neighboring public land and some from other private ranches and they were all good and sweaty, then we dropped the big 50 lb flour sacks on em which coated them very nice and white. after that, we hit em with the pepper and seasoned salt, pushed just a bit farther to the vats of heated oil, when we opened up the twin 50 cal's on each side of the ship, the just fell in and cooked instantly. fortunately we had the big slotted spoon on cable beneath the ship and we just lowered it in, took a dozen or so and flew to Randolph where we invited the entire town to winter feast. pretty sure that's how it went, memory is getting more like goobs every day...


Hey, I heard that. :grin:

Well ya just gotta love the DLL cow/calf elk hunt thingie. I thought maybe it wasn't gonna run this year.

Two things ya don't wanna witness:
1) game management
2) sausagemaking


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Anyone remember when they use to do the elk depredation hunts up in Rich County?



uh....nevermind


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

To think I read through this w h o l e thing! I could use a drink!


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

This has been a very interesting thread. I started out asking if anyone else had experienced a similar hunt as my niece and that has been confirmed. I not at all familiar with DLL's operation so I found my nieces story interesting and disturbing at the same time. I talked with my brother in law as well because his boy had a tag this year. He basically confirmed that what my niece had experienced was true. He has hunted DLL several times in the past and had never witness such chaos. 
I was not on the hunt with my niece so no I'm not eating elk. My niece did harvest a cow, however, I've never said anything about here opinion on the hunt other than see related to me her experience. I'm the one that threw out the idea of this be "perhaps unethical". Everyone can form there own opinions and ideas on the matter. I've never claimed or to be an authority on the matter as some have suggested. Threads such as this one are always going to stir up controversy. Your either in favor of such hunts or opposed, each can make up his/her own mind.
Again here is the law:
"Use of vehicle or aircraft
Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-14
You may not use an airplane or any other 
airborne vehicle or device, or any motorized 
terrestrial or aquatic vehicle (except a vessel)-
including snowmobiles and other recreational 
vehicles-to take protected wildlife, including 
big game.
*Also, you may not take protected wildlife *
*that are being chased, harmed, harassed, rallied, *
*herded, flushed, pursued or moved by an aircraft *
*or any other vehicle or transportation device *
*listed above*."

Now I suppose since the law doesn't come out and say the word truck that you can rationalize in your own mind that using a truck to harass, chase, herd, or purse wildlife is perfectly O.K., because that's exactly whats happening. Plenty of others have corroborated my statements. It's obvious the DWR is O.K. with how hunts are conducted or something would have been done long ago. 
So I suppose I have nothing left to say other than either you agree with DLL's methods and find them perfectly within your own ethical ideals or your a bit disturbed and choose not to participate in such activities. Good luck to each of you in your hunting endeavors.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

aye laddy, well said and hopefully the conclusive, definitive and end all statement on this matter. sorry, cant keep from chucklin on that...


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

So GS,
Given her experience, including the harvest, will your niece or any immediate family be putting in for this tag in the future? 

That is my question to those who deliver their "experience" or another's... Answer honest.


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## twigflipper (Dec 11, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> GSPonPoi
> I like Tommy and his boys though. They are good guys. Tommy ran the hunting there as an employee of DLL for years before DLL sold the hunting operation to him. He knows what he is doing.
> 
> Lets get one thing straight. as a guide for 16 yrs for DLL, only one time was Tom ever the man I answered to during a hunt I guided at DLL and that was the only hunt that I ever in, 16 yrs, guided for him (wild country outfitters inc.). And I do remember the years when Tom tried to look down his nose(as he is a little bench legged) and very much beneath himself, at anyone who would sink so low as to guide a cow hunt, even during the years we guided cow hunts in sept and oct during the bull hunts. And as of the end of bull and buck hunts Tom nor his guides ever showed up after the end of oct. I'm sure they don't do the early cow hunts any more as Tom never did like moving cow hunters through camp during the bull hunts. Not a Tom fan, maybe why I don't work there any more.
> ...


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

RandomElk16 said:


> So GS,
> Given her experience, including the harvest, will your niece or any immediate family be putting in for this tag in the future?
> 
> That is my question to those who deliver their "experience" or another's... Answer honest.


The answer is no.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

GSPonPoint said:


> The answer is no.


Ok good. I wasn't being disrespectful with that. However, a second trip to DLL was made, a cow was harvested, and it would be wrong for someone to apply after having such harsh feelings after a successful hunt.


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

I have had the tag twice and my wife had it this year. Our experience was just as TS and Fish said. Just what we expected and we have had a great time on all these hunts. It's fun just to be close to that many animals and see the nice bulls/bucks.


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