# No state money for gun ranges . . . again



## utskidad (Apr 6, 2013)

We pay for most things, and get nothing. 


*New trails, parks and signs: A look at the 99 outdoors projects to receive grants from Utah in 2021*










New trails, parks and signs: A look at the 99 outdoors projects to receive grants from Utah in 2021


A complete list of the 99 Utah outdoors projects to receive funding from the Utah Outdoor Recreation Grant in 2021. A record $7.6 million was distributed in outdoors grants this year.




www.ksl.com


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

And don't expect any in the future. 

A rifle/pistol/shotgun range quite possibly is so far down on the priorities that you will never see one developed with state money and is not likely to happen privately just because of finances and liability. Be glad of what is out there right now.


----------



## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

utskidad said:


> We pay for most things, and get nothing.
> 
> 
> *New trails, parks and signs: A look at the 99 outdoors projects to receive grants from Utah in 2021*
> ...


To be fair, we really don't pay into much of this fund in a meaningful way. The transient tax is used in this case for "economic development" in the form of travel and outdoor recreation. We need quality ranges but they aren't exactly tourist draws for most regions. 

And we get a ton from our fees and hunting/fishing/ammo/firearms taxes. Those funds have always been critical to fostering conservation and building access. The Pittmam Robertson and Dingell-Johnson Acts have been paramount to wildlife and habitat and often smaller states or regions get a disproportionate amount of monies on a per capita basis. Utah has faired well with these funds and we shouldn't lose sight of that fact.

I'd actually offer we should be encouraging states and feds to levy similar taxes on other outdoor gear that pay for the unfunded liabilities associated with their industry, like search and rescue, to just name one. I think the user funded model is ultimately better than general fund taxation.


----------



## Hill Hunter (Dec 1, 2017)

The outdoor recreation grant in is one thing, but were you should really be looking and putting pressure for more state funded ranges is the Division of Wildlife. They oversee the Pittman-Robertson excise tax money, that money comes directly from gun and ammo sales and can be used for ranges. Those funds should be up with all the gun sales in the last year.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Given the statement on this DWR page I don't think they believe it necessary to step up more.





__





Shooting ranges


We have some great shooting ranges in Utah where hunters and others with firearms and archery equipment can practice shooting safely.




wildlife.utah.gov


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I did read somewhere the other day that state parks were building a new archery range on Antelope Island. I can't really see why that is needed given the nearly new Ogden Archery Center and lack of upkeep on the South Willard Bay marina archery range.


----------



## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

My local range is going to start charging everyone.
20.00 yr for city residents
30.00 yr for county residents
550.00 yr for anyone out side of the county.
Seems like a bunch of BS to me.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The sad fact of life is that it takes volunteers and money to keep ranges open. If the city, county, or state won't chip in then they need to get the money somewhere and those who use it are the ones that are going to pay 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

It is reasonable to charge the users a fee to take care of and operate whatever the entity is- especially a gun range. I wish there was a $20/year gun range in my city.


----------



## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

fair enough. i just figured i paid the city my share from utilities and such. but I guess i will pay up if i want to shoot. getting guns ready for wife moose hunt.


----------



## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Critter said:


> And don't expect any in the future.
> 
> A rifle/pistol/shotgun range quite possibly is so far down on the priorities that you will never see one developed with state money and is not likely to happen privately just because of finances and liability. Be glad of what is out there right now.


This is short sighted thinking, in my opinion. How much does it cost to fight multiple wildfires every year that are caused by target shooters? Surely there is a piece(s) of suitable State or Federal land that can be developed for this purpose. Colorado has a number of unsupervised ranges administered by CPW, why can't Utah?

After all we are now a 2A Sanctuary State for whatever that is worth.

PS- not trying to single you out Critter


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The ranges in Colorado don't use state money, they use CP&W money. And while they are part of the state they are self sufficient. 

They do apply for money from the lottery tickets that are sold in the state for projects. This is one place that Utah is missing out in. 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Daisy said:


> This is short sighted thinking, in my opinion. How much does it cost to fight multiple wildfires every year that are caused by target shooters? Surely there is a piece(s) of suitable State or Federal land that can be developed for this purpose. Colorado has a number of unsupervised ranges administered by CPW, why can't Utah?
> 
> After all we are now a 2A Sanctuary State for whatever that is worth.
> 
> PS- not trying to single you out Critter


The problem comes from managing said ranges. There are several good ranges that require volunteers to operate. But they are there. Unfortunately most users like to trash the place.

The OP I think is complaining about Wasatch/Utah county in particular. The battle is with county commissioners. There is a certain demographic out there who doesn't want to deal with range officers.


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Pulling money from the DWR for a gun range has to be the worst idea I've heard!! You might get a gun range, but you'd be taking funds away from wildlife. You wouldn't need a range to sight a rifle because you wont have anything to shoot at that's edible.


----------



## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Critter said:


> The ranges in Colorado don't use state money, they use CP&W money. And while they are part of the state they are self sufficient.
> 
> They do apply for money from the lottery tickets that are sold in the state for projects. This is one place that Utah is missing out in.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


I have quite a bit of experience in a past life working with GOCO back in Colorado. CPW is not an entire enterprise agency. They do receive general fund monies approx 1% of all revenue. Conversely, Utah DWR receives approx 7% of its revenue from the State general fund. DWR is not that far away from the same level of funding as CPW. GOCO has been a very successful program for providing recreational opportunities to Colorado's 5.8M people. Agree with your comment on Utah missing out.


----------



## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

taxidermist said:


> Pulling money from the DWR for a gun range has to be the worst idea I've heard!! You might get a gun range, but you'd be taking funds away from wildlife. You wouldn't need a range to sight a rifle because you wont have anything to shoot at that's edible.


It does not have to be DWR, it can be SITLA land, Forestry Fire and State Land property, or Parks that owns and administers the range. There are a number of unsupervised ranges across the west, Colorado, FWP in Montana have some that are State run on Federal land. The one outside of Big Sky is on USFS property. There are plenty of examples out there, it can be done.


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Daisy said:


> It does not have to be DWR, it can be SITLA land, Forestry Fire and State Land property, or Parks that owns and administers the range. There are a number of unsupervised ranges across the west, Colorado, FWP in Montana have some that are State run on Federal land. The one outside of Big Sky is on USFS property. There are plenty of examples out there, it can be done.


I agree it "can" be done. Anything "can" be done if you have the money, time and resources to make it happen. Where would you suggest it be built? How elaborate of a facility? how many stations? I could go on. 

The cost for a excavator is about $2500 an hour. A haul truck (None available in the western states at this time) is about the same. A crew of 4 and a week of work would be a sufficient estimation to construct such a range. Now, add in the cost of a building, restrooms, plumbing, etc. One would be looking at 3 million to get it done. It would take a long time to recover that cost!


----------



## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

taxidermist said:


> I agree it "can" be done. Anything "can" be done if you have the money, time and resources to make it happen. Where would you suggest it be built? How elaborate of a facility? how many stations? I could go on.
> 
> The cost for a excavator is about $2500 an hour. A haul truck (None available in the western states at this time) is about the same. A crew of 4 and a week of work would be a sufficient estimation to construct such a range. Now, add in the cost of a building, restrooms, plumbing, etc. One would be looking at 3 million to get it done. It would take a long time to recover that cost!


It sure seems like there is a need in western Utah County or eastern Tooele. Heck develop the BLM land on the south side of Stansbury Island. Utah does have a massive budget surplus right now, and more COVID money left to spend. What cost needs to be recovered? Did parks consider how they are going to recover the cost of the one of the 2 new State Parks designated this year? Or was there a public need?

Not sure where you get your pricing for excavators and haul trucks, but you are high by a factor of 10. I have a project starting in July to move approx 23000 yards of material where we will be using a 326 and a long stick. $280/hr with operator for the long stick, and the 326 rents now at +/- $7500/mo without an operator through Wheeler. 10 yard dump trucks are $110/hr. Should cost us about $125K.

If the public wants it, the resources could be available. It comes down to a coordinated effort by the potential users to help make it happen. But knowing the often lamented apathy shown by sportsmen in the state it is likely a pipe dream.


----------



## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Y'all need to do your homework. 😁 

Funding for state owned, public shooting ranges comes from one source in Utah - the *Support for State-Owned Shooting Ranges Restricted Account* set up by *Index: Utah Code; Title 23: Wildlife Resources Code of Utah; Chapter 14: Division of Wildlife Resources and Wildlife Board; Section 13.5: Support for State-Owned Shooting Ranges Restricted Account; (Effective 10/1/2017). *Here is what that code says:


> (1) There is created in the General Fund a restricted account known as the "Support for State-Owned Shooting Ranges Restricted Account."
> (2) *The account shall be funded by:
> (a) contributions deposited into the account in accordance with Section 41-1a-422;
> (b) private contributions; and
> ...


Please note where the funding of that account comes from. It would be a large stretch to assume that any legislature approved budget funds would meet one or more of the designated funding sources. The '(a)' source is from designated special license plate donations. The '(b)' source is self explanatory. The '(c)' source would most likely be something like Pittman-Robertson grants.

Here's your homework assignment for this week - find and report the balance contained in the Support for State-Owned Shooting Ranges Restricted Account. Is there a balance in that account that would support construction of new shooting range in the state?


----------



## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

DIRTYS6X6 said:


> My local range is going to start charging everyone.
> 20.00 yr for city residents
> 30.00 yr for county residents
> 550.00 yr for anyone out side of the county.
> Seems like a bunch of BS to me.


I saw that sign in Nephi--about had an aneurism! I am going to miss visiting that gun range. I wish they would do a charge per use $ drop box, like $10 per day use. Bad part about it is this will only encourage folks to head west to shoot in the summer months and inadvertently start some fires. Who wants to put some $ down that long ridge is gonna burn this year--hope I'm wrong!


----------



## Gordon (Sep 11, 2007)

Don't worry guys. We are a 2A sanctuary state. 😀


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

If I were to build a range on private land and at my expense, I'd be charging more than $550 a year for a pass!


----------

