# Hunters safety changes ?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Is it true they are going to make it so people 18 and older will not need to take hunters safety in Utah as long as they're with someone who has taken it ?


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I hope not.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Was this brought up in a napkin meeting at the rest area?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Was this brought up in a napkin meeting at the rest area?


Someone said it was brought up at the RAC meeting they had in Richfield yesterday.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Is it true they are going to make it so people 18 and older will not need to take hunters safety in Utah as long as they're with someone who has taken it ?


Unfortunately this has already been passed and the age is actually 12 years or older. It is referred to as the trial hunting program. Essentially it enables non-hunters to try out hunting without going through hunters safety. The trial hunter just needs to be accompanied by a non-trial hunter over the age of 21.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> Unfortunately this has already been passed and the age is actually 12 years or older. It is referred to as the trial hunting program. Essentially it enables non-hunters to try out hunting without going through hunters safety. The trial hunter just needs to be accompanied by a non-trial hunter over the age of 21.


When will it go into effect?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

This year


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> This year


When this year?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

It's already in effect.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

Nambaster said:


> It's already in effect.


Where is all the info on this? I had read about this a while ago but can't find it now.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> When this year?


It's already in effect.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2014_pdfs/2014_field_regs_draft.pdf page 3


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Just one more thing that makes it harder to draw tags .


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## DeadI (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't like this one bit.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

DeadI said:


> I don't like this one bit.


I guess you might get a few people who decide they like hunting. But with online courses and 1 field day, a few weeks of class, hunters safety isn't that hard to get and anyone at all interested would be willing to do it.


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

The Fish and Game is trying so hard to get kids interested in hunting, even though they have made it so difficult that no kid would enjoy hunting in this state. 
The requirements for hunters safety and wearing orange have reduced hunting accidents substantially since the 60s. It is stupid to abandon something that works.
Next they will allow kids under 18 to go on any weapon big game hunts in camouflage. 
To make Utah appealing to hunters, try longer seasons and allowing hunters to hunt with their friends in one herd unit and with their relatives in another area 3 weeks later.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

redleg said:


> The Fish and Game is trying so hard to get kids interested in hunting, even though they have made it so difficult that no kid would enjoy hunting in this state.
> The requirements for hunters safety and wearing orange have reduced hunting accidents substantially since the 60s. It is stupid to abandon something that works.
> Next they will allow kids under 18 to go on any weapon big game hunts in camouflage.
> To make Utah appealing to hunters, try longer seasons and allowing hunters to hunt with their friends in one herd unit and with their relatives in another area 3 weeks later.


Hey let's not get carried away.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Why would we want to eliminate hunter safety? Since the implementation of the program back in the 60's, hunters shooting hunters has all but disappeared in Utah. I believe the last hunter killed in Utah by another hunter was back in 1973 or 74. He was a friend of mine who was shot while sitting on the hillside having lunch. Prior to hunters ed, hunters were shot and killed fairly often. Now we are letting 12 year olds carry high powered rifles and you want to eliminate the program? Seems to me we are heading in the wrong direction.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

bow_dude said:


> Why would we want to eliminate hunter safety? Since the implementation of the program back in the 60's, hunters shooting hunters has all but disappeared in Utah. I believe the last hunter killed in Utah by another hunter was back in 1973 or 74. He was a friend of mine who was shot while sitting on the hillside having lunch. Prior to hunters ed, hunters were shot and killed fairly often. Now we are letting 12 year olds carry high powered rifles and you want to eliminate the program? Seems to me we are heading in the wrong direction.


It's not being eliminated it's saying it's giving a chance for people who don't hunt to try it for 3 years and see if it interests them, then they will have to take hunters safety, and someone 21 or older has to be with them who has completed the course.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Hunter safety is something that anyone who is handing a firearm in a hunting situation should know. It is not some onerous chore that should only be inflicted on grownups or the fully committed hunter. If kids aren't willing to accept the knowledge that someone has gone to a great deal of effort to provide them before they can hunt, then they shouldn't be able to hunt.
What are they going to do when they find out not everybody gets a trophy in hunting?

.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I agree Cooky. What are the youth going to do when they turn 18 and all of a sudden the sky is falling and they dont get a tag every year, and they dont get to go out weeks earlier than all others, and they dont get to hunt all 3 seasons, and they dont get grandma and grnadpas tags every year? Geez, these poor kids. What are we going to do for them at age 19?


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

I think we're going the wrong way with this one. I have a seven year old, and when/if he decides he wants to go hunting I want him to be more educated about hunting & weapon safety before heading into the field. Not less educated. Nor do I want to be out there with less educated individuals. Let's face it, well educated individuals do dumb things, less educated individuals will do dumber things more frequently.

More than anything nowadays I think the Hunter's Education program should be made more stringent. With kids playing their shoot 'em up games on the gaming consoles it gives them a false sense of confidence and bravado that does not translate when an actual firearm is in their hands. I've seen it first hand when taking Boy Scout age youth plinking with .22's. Those that had taken and passed Hunter's Safety were safety aware and quite pleasant to shoot with. Those that hadn't had any prior education/training with a firearm shortly began treating it like the latest verson of Call of Duty which resulted in a premature termination of the activity.

It's only a matter of time though until the program comes under scrutiny when an accident occurs and the individual involved was hunting under this trial program and hadn't taken any previous training. Imagine the knee jerk reaction that will follow.

I understand the desire to reach out to more people, especially youth, as hunting is quickly losing many from it's ranks... but in this case less is not more.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

While I don't think this program idea is altogether a bad idea, I think it was set up wrong. They should require the youth to get a permit and the youth can only get a permit for one year then after that they can no longer receive a permit and are required to pass hunters safety to go hunting after that. To allow it to go on indefinitely is a big mistake. If you're wanting kids to get hooked on hunting, generally one season will be plenty.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Personally, I think either make hunter's ed more stringent and possibly mandate periodic renewals, or have it be as outlined here: accompanied by a 21 + year old who is certified. The current system is just too lax to be of much continued benefit I think.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

I think that if someone was going to accidentally shoot someone it would be during their first 3 years of inexperienced hunting while they are deciding if they liked it or not. Anyone else ever been around someone who doesn't know what Muzzle control is? Now add buck fever to that mix. BAD IDEA!!!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

A big part of hunters safety is being taught stewardship and sportsmanship along with the safety aspects. Sad that isn't going to be a priority anymore.


-DallanC


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## fishreaper (Jan 2, 2014)

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't interested in hunting in the slightest as a 12 year old when I first learned I was going with my uncle. Had I been forced to go through all of the courses and everything, I probably wouldn't have messed with hunting at all. No one else in my immediate family hunted, so I really wasn't exposed to it. Now I can't go a day without something firearm/hunting related on my mind, and not having to mess with hunter safety until later on is likely the only reason I even had the opportunity to become a hunter in the first place. Just personal experience.

Mind you in Texas, there is no limit to how young you can start hunting legally, as long as you're accompanied with an adult. Not to mention the fact that getting tags isn't a problem and there aren't any units or drawings to worry about. just the number of animals you can kill per county.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

The "Trial Hunting Period" has been implemented in other states already and has had great success according to the division. Emphasis needs to be heavily enforces on the Mentor. As far as recruitment goes this is a great tool to involve those who are hesitant to give hunting a try. 

I have no objection to getting more people out in the hills and learning about conservation. Things are starting to take a major turn towards video games, skateboarding, and social media. If hunters become such a small minority in the state of Utah then things will just get worse and worse. We already have trained professionals eliminating animals out of Bountiful. Hopefully we can keep people from joining the darkside.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Be accompanied by a certified 21 year old? The same dude that uses his pickup truck as a gun rest? The group that will shoot two animals because "someone at camp has a tag."

I know that there are very responsible individuals. I also realize that most these responsible hunters that love hunting realize the value hunter safety provides their kids. The people who will utilize this? I believe, just me, that they are the same ones I described above. Not so worried about the rules. A little more old fashioned in their ways. Trying to save a buck. Can't be naive and forget the large number of irresponsible hunters we have.


The time and money for hunter safety is a very small compromise. My kids start asking for it around 5 or 6 because they love going bird hunting. Kids don't have a problem going to class; lazy/too busy/tight wad parents do.

I must acknowledge before I go, there are the handful of "nephews" or "my single mom friend's kid" that this will benefit. However, if they haven't been around guns much or taken the class, an .06 and large animals aren't the best way to start.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

I really believe that a child in an good hunting/outdoor environment is taught the things they need to know long before they enter the class room for hunters safety. I also strongly believe that those kids look forward to hunters safety as a right of passage of sorts and have no problem taking the class.

As has been said those who aren't prepared beforehand need it the worst and don't want to have to hassle with it.

In the long run what good does it do to get a kid excited about hunting and then find out he didn't even draw a general season deer tag AND he might have the same thing happen next year too. 

Get a kid excited about something and then yank the rug out from under him a time or two and they will loose all interest really quick.

Why don't we just give them a fistful of monopoly money and drop them off at the mall to go shopping for a day.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Mentors.....


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

What is the kid behind you doing?-------SS


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

Springville Shooter said:


> What is the kid behind you doing?-------SS


Thats what I was wondering too


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> What is the kid behind you doing?-------SS


Getting ready to mentor of course!:rockon:


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't think that I have had that much blood on my arms since the first elk I shot over 40 years ago.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Unfortunately it has not been since 73-74 since some one got shot hunting. 
In the early 90's a kid here in town was on his first elk hunt with his dad and was putting a shell in the chamber in the truck getting ready to hunt. The gun went off and hit his Dad thru both legs.
The Dad lost one leg and badly damaged the other. He never was the same.
Passed away a few months ago in his early 60's.
The young man was 15 at the time. He ended up working for me for a couple of years while in high school. Tough for him as well.
Even with training it can happen.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

2full said:


> Unfortunately it has not been since 73-74 since some one got shot hunting.
> In the early 90's a kid here in town was on his first elk hunt with his dad and was putting a shell in the chamber in the truck getting ready to hunt. The gun went off and hit his Dad thru both legs.
> The Dad lost one leg and badly damaged the other. He never was the same.
> Passed away a few months ago in his early 60's.
> ...


 Putting a shell in the chamber while still in the truck when both he and his dad should have known better? Yes, it can (and does) happen with training because people forget, but how many more times would it happen without the training?

In fact, I'd like to see the hunter safety course required for everyone every 5 to 10 years. We are required to renew our drivers licenses, along with recertification of other licenses for I don't know how many occupations, all in the name of safety. Why not hunting?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

How about just requiring hunter safety no matter what the hunters age is? Why cut it off at a certain year as most states that require it does? There are also quite a few states that do not require it along with not requiring hunter orange to be worn and their accident rates are no higher than those states that require both. 

I personally believe that a lot are missing the big points that should be made. The new hunter should know safe gun handling way before he or she even signs up for a hunter safety course. I know that in my case I knew where my dad kept the firearms and ammo, I also knew that if I would of touched either without him being there that I would of had a #11 boot up my rear.

The big point that needs to be made is that some people are ready to accept the responsibility and some are not. The ones that are not ready my never be ready no matter what is required by the government.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Critter said:


> The big point that needs to be made is that some people are ready to accept the responsibility and some are not. The ones that are not ready my never be ready no matter what is required by the government.


I can understand that.....but I'd rather hope that exposure to some of the safety information taught during hunter ed sinks in and ultimately makes those "not ready" be "more ready".

When my son took hunters safety a few years back, I went to the classes with him. I was shocked at how clueless some of the people taking the class were in regards to overall hunting info and gun safety. Knowing that we may be sharing the woods with these folks, I was very happy they had to sit through the class.

SS....thats not me in the pic fyi :mrgreen:


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

DallanC said:


> A big part of hunters safety is being taught stewardship and sportsmanship along with the safety aspects. Sad that isn't going to be a priority anymore.
> 
> -DallanC


If this is a big part of hunters safety then I say the program is a complete and utter failure. I have hunted a lot in Utah and the sportsmanship in too many instances is utterly disgusting. Just go to Farmington Bay during duck season and you'll see hundreds of instances of poor sportsmanship every day.


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

WOW!! I don't even know where to start!

As far as the safety aspect goes, I think kids should be taught gun safety as little kids. I think it should be added into the school program. Maybe 3 or 4 different rounds with each one increasing in what is taught.

As for this trial period of not requiring hunters safety before going hunting. We'll it's just one more case of our country just handing out anything and everything to those who don't care to follow the rules and just don't want to put in any effort for anything. Maybe they can just hand out 4 points at the game check stations so no one feels left out when they couldn't find a deer. Pretty soon it's going to be against the law to come home without a deer.:shock:

I think the division is going down the wrong road trying to recruit new hunters. In my opinion, the best way to get kids hooked on hunting is getting them out, and letting them be successful. How do we do that? 1st we need to make this an affordable outing. Yes I know it only costs $40 for a deer tag (for now). But you have to figure in the cost of gear, gas, groceries, and time. So if a dad has 2, 3, 4, several kids he want's to take out, it gets real expensive real fast. I guarantee there are several families that just flat out can't afford for everyone to go so guess what, no one goes and they go find something else to do. 
I don't really think this "youth hunt" or "mentor hunt" idea makes a whole lot of difference. Maybe just the fact of getting a chance will hook some kids. 
Think back to when you were in school. Your proudest moment was going back on Monday telling everyone your dad got a deer. as you got older, it was your turn to go in talking about the deer you got. For most kids size made very little difference. It was the fact you got one that mattered. Some of that mentality NEEDS to be brought back to this era's hunters.

Ok, I'm off my soap box now.......


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I don't like this idea one bit. Lots of great reasons for not liking this idea have already been posted but I think that if someone is really interested in hunting, they can tag along for a hunt to get a feel for it and experience the hunt with someone who has already gone through the hunter safety program. And if they are really dying to get some blood on their hands, take them out to shoot at some jack rabbits. But leave our tags out of this.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I had a friend try to buy a license and a point but the website would not allow him to advance w/o a safety cert.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

They haven't decided what hunts you can hunt yet.


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