# Bookcliffs Elk



## sharpshooter25 (Oct 2, 2007)

Here is the pictures of my brother in-law's elk that he shot opening morning on the Bookcliffs rifle hunt last Saturday. I figured this bull will gross score between 320-330. I want to know all of your guys' opinion on this bull and whether or not you would have passed on it opening morning? He is a good bull, but for opening morning on the Bookcliffs, I would have held out.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

You, myself and most guys on here I think would have held out but most hunters don't hang out on hunting forums and most hunters would be thrilled with a 300 class bull. Thanks for sharing the cool photos.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

315 +/-...I would have held out.


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

He's pushing 300-315, I would have held off on that on. I bet their was lots of ground srinkage when they got up to him, but maybe not...


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

with Horse I would have held out on him. last day or close to last day put him down. but not opening moring. But That just me. Other then congrats to the hunter and it the trophy to the hunter not to us. Yes im very jeals of him geting a LE TAG.


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## EvenOlderFudd (Jun 18, 2008)

On the roadles unit this is about as good as it gets.. My buddie was ther 2 years ago. and passesd up a bunch of bulls like the beauty you got.. Then 4 days later he realized that the bulls are all about the same., And took a 328 bull that looks great in his trophy room.So all in all you take whats given to ya.. or come home empty.. Ya cant' eat antlers,, can ya??


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> with hores I would have held out on him. last day or close to last day put him down. but not opening moring. But That just me. Other then congrats to the hunter and it the trophy to the hunter not to us. Yes im very jeals of him geting a LE TAG.


hores? Do you usually take hores hunting with you? Do others do this as well, am I the only one missing out on the hores? :mrgreen:


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > with hores I would have held out on him. last day or close to last day put him down. but not opening moring. But That just me. Other then congrats to the hunter and it the trophy to the hunter not to us. Yes im very jeals of him geting a LE TAG.
> ...


Ok you cought that one. I fixed it now. :mrgreen:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

:mrgreen:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Lucky if he's 300. Like someone mentioned, Not everyone hangs out on forums and dreams about big antlers every night.

No way in hell I would have shot him, maybe with a bow, but probably not even first day with archery gear.

But if he's happy, WHO CARES!

Congrats to him.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks like it's been muddy down on the books.


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## rutting (Jul 11, 2008)

315 is probably on the high side!!! As long as he is happy, thats all that matters. Its easier to sit on a forum and say you would pass. Who knows with the rut going strong it might have been self defense lol


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

I'd say 285-295, and my personal choice would be to pass anything under 350 on that unit until late in the hunt. It's all about personal preference though, if that's his first 6x6 then it's a great trophy he will always remember. Nice!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Congrats on this elk. I would have held out and looked for a bigger bull.


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > with hores I would have held out on him. last day or close to last day put him down. but not opening moring. But That just me. Other then congrats to the hunter and it the trophy to the hunter not to us. Yes im very jeals of him geting a LE TAG.
> ...


 :rotfl:


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Lucky if he's 300. Like someone mentioned, Not everyone hangs out on forums and dreams about big antlers every night.
> 
> No way in hell I would have shot him, maybe with a bow, but probably not even first day with archery gear.
> 
> ...


+1. Congrats to the happy hunter.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Nice bull, tough to second guess the heat of the moment and the experience of it all, congrats!


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

threshershark said:


> I'd say 285-295, and my personal choice would be to pass anything under 350 on that unit until late in the hunt. It's all about personal preference though, if that's his first 6x6 then it's a great trophy he will always remember. Nice!


So in your experience could what is the average size of the bulls that comes off from the book cliffs unit????


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Lucky if he's 300. Like someone mentioned, Not everyone hangs out on forums and dreams about big antlers every night.
> 
> No way in hell I would have shot him, maybe with a bow, but probably not even first day with archery gear.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I was going to say :x 
Most people don't even know what 350 means, and don't care. They just want a mature bull. Sounds like this bull was a no-doubter for the hunter, so good for him.


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

Trophy is in the eye of the beholder. My way of thinking, your way of thinking really doesn't matter. If the hunter is happy that is all that matters. 


I made the mistake telling a friend his bull would not score what he thought it would! I scored it to prove him wrong. I was right! After I saw the look on his face when I told him the score I felt like a big A#$ hole. I will never tell someone the bull they shot does not meet the standerds for the specific unit agian. 

Trophy is what ever the one with the tag wants to kill!


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

clean pass through said:


> Trophy is in the eye of the beholder. My way of thinking, your way of thinking really doesn't matter. If the hunter is happy that is all that matters.
> 
> I made the mistake telling a friend his bull would not score what he thought it would! I scored it to prove him wrong. I was right! After I saw the look on his face when I told him the score I felt like a big A#$ hole. I will never tell someone the bull they shot does not meet the standerds for the specific unit agian.
> 
> Trophy is what ever the one with the tag wants to kill!


Well said


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

The trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Since I didn't say it earlier, CONGRATS!!!! 

:mrgreen:


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

My favorite buck I shot was not my biggest one. it was actually a medium size three point but it was my best "spot and stalk" I have ever carried out and one of my best shots.

Sometimes the big ones come easier and leave me feeling less like a skilled hunter. Maybe the process made the animal a bit of trophy.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Thack said:


> So in your experience could what is the average size of the bulls that comes off from the book cliffs unit????


In my experience, the "average" LE tagholder (not just on the Books but on units throughout the state) does exactly what took place here. In other words, they want a 6-point bull and harvest one when an opportunity presents itself. I spend the most time in the Wasatch unit, and the average bull I see harvested is between 275 and 320. Young bulls in this class are very common, I've seen as many as 17 in one day.

On these units, however, 350+ bulls are there and can be found with moderate effort. Also, as a generalization, most hunters can usually tell the difference between a 250 class bull and a 300" animal. As bulls reach around 300 they get that "mature" look. I've encountered far fewer hunters that can distinguish a 300 from a 330 from a 350, where the difference tends to be mass.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

congrats on a fine looking bull!



Treehugnhuntr said:


> But if he's happy, WHO CARES!


+1000000000


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## Crash (Mar 20, 2008)

Good looking bull. I agree with you clean pass through. Hope that I can even get that lucky for my first elk hunt.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

By the look from the pictures, he has had a lot more fun than me. Congrats on a fine hunt.


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

threshershark said:


> Thack said:
> 
> 
> > So in your experience could what is the average size of the bulls that comes off from the book cliffs unit????
> ...


My pointy is do you *honestly* have any Idea what the average size of Bulls in the book cliffs is?? How much time have you spent down there??? Maybe that is a pretty typical bull for the Unit............I know I know you will say the Mossy boys killed a 400+ bull down there last year :roll: :roll: ( 1 in a 1000)

I agree that most including me can't separate a 330 (or maybe even a 300) bull from a 350.....But again it kills me that there is this mystique about the holy 350 bull what garbage! :roll: 


> On *these units*, however, *350+ bulls* are there and *can be found with moderate effort*.


 So the suggestion here is this guy is lazy and settled for a sub par bull :roll: :roll:

*Great bull congrats!!!!!!*

Ok I am done :wink: 
_(off soap box )_


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Well as for me I usually have to choose between elk or deer I usually choose deer because the rules with the Elk hunt just got to dadgummed complicated for me.That said every year I say I am going to hold out until I find the "ONE" and then I see horns and get so excited next thing I know my hunts over so knowing myself if that dude presented to me I would shoot him. Congrats on a succesful hunt.


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Thack said:


> > On *these units*, however, *350+ bulls* are there and *can be found with moderate effort*.
> 
> 
> So the suggestion here is this guy is lazy and settled for a sub par bull :roll: :roll:


I would guess that you recently took a small bull on a LE unit, Thack, because you seem very uptight about this. Why are you getting all upset at someone for stating what they would have done if they had the tag? I will refer you to the author of this thread, who started it out by saying:


sharpshooter25 said:


> I want to know all of your guys' opinion on this bull and whether or not you would have passed on it opening morning? He is a good bull, but for opening morning on the Bookcliffs, I would have held out.


Maybe you just don't understand what is meant by "moderate effort". To me, a moderate effort for a LE elk hunt would be 2 or 3 scouting trips and spending at least 1/2 the season on the mountain. A "large effort" would be 5-10 scouting trips and spending the whole season on the mountain. Nobody is calling anyone lazy, but the fact is that a lot of guys that get these tags are not willing to put forth a "moderate effort". Good (300 class) bulls can usually be taken with a small effort, and that is what people are putting forth. This guy took a bull that he is happy with, good for him. A lot of folks would have waited for a bigger bull, as evidenced by nearly all the replies posted here.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Very good points. I wouldn't shoot that bull on the WORST LE unit in the state on opening day with a rifle, much less the Book Cliffs.

I don't understand why someone would want to kill a bull the first day anyway???


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

El Matador said:


> I would guess that you recently took a small bull on a LE unit, Thack, because you seem very uptight about this. Why are you getting all upset at someone for stating what they would have done if they had the tag? I will refer you to the author of this thread, who started it out by saying:


OH YA CAUGHT :twisted: me. I am spewing my bitterness all over the BB because I shot a sub par bulll    :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: You are very insightful :shock:

:roll: *NO* I didn't kill a bull this year nor did I attempt to kill a bull! :!: I agree that I would most likely have passed on this bull after applying for 15 years!!!! and it being the first day! ...........The part I get up tight about is the *"ANTLER NAZI'S"* making assumptions that this is a small bull for the unit! I find it very arrogant to make an assumption of antler quality (i.e score) when most guys commenting on this bull have not even scouted or hunted or been to the Bookcliffs...........


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

It _is_ a below average bull for the Book Cliffs LE rifle hunt. V A L I U M.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

"Antler Nazi"??? Are you serious? :roll:


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Thack said:


> My pointy is do you honestly have any Idea what the average size of Bulls in the book cliffs is??


Thack: First, yes I do have a good idea of what kind of bulls are available on the Books, not that I have to convince you of that. You are way off base on all counts. I have no hidden or implied meaning to my post about this very successful hunt.

Anyone who gets an LE tag can do what they want with it. If they are pleased at the outcome, that is EXCELLENT and the whole goal of drawing the tag. I personally know people who have taken bulls in this class with LE tags that they have waited 14+ years to draw, and I'm thrilled for them at having a dream hunt with an outcome they are happy with.

You may not know this, but currently every LE unit in Utah is managed to produce premium bulls. I'm not using the word "trophy" because any animal can be a trophy to the hunter. I use the word "premium" to refer to a non-subjective standard like the B&C. Units in this state are currently designed to provide 350+ bulls, and they are present in huntable numbers on every LE unit I've set foot on. That's the point here: Was this bull representative of this unit's potential, or would passing this animal on opening day have resulted in a very high probability (say 75%) of finding a larger bull?

The answer, to anyone who knows the Books, is that the latter statement is true. I would never detract from a hunter's success, hunting is about achieving your personal fulfillment, which this fine sportsman did in spades.



El Matador said:


> Maybe you just don't understand what is meant by "moderate effort". To me, a moderate effort for a LE elk hunt would be 2 or 3 scouting trips and spending at least 1/2 the season on the mountain.


Exactly.



Treehugnhuntr said:


> Very good points. I wouldn't shoot that bull on the WORST LE unit in the state on opening day with a rifle, much less the Book Cliffs.


+1, and again that is me personally, with my own fulfillment in mind and has no bearing on this guy's hunt. Why? Simply because I know the probability of finding a bigger bull given my hunting style.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I think whoever shot that elk is a stand up guy........ for wiping the milk from it's lip before snapping the photos. :mrgreen:

Thack, I think it's funny that you let pretty much the LEAST offensive dude on the forum get under your skin. There's a moral in there somewhere, I think.
:rotfl: -oooo-


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> The LEAST offensive dude on the forum...


I'm calling Cheech and Fixed Blade right now and getting some new material.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The funny thing is that bull might be 12 years old, yet some say "milk on the lips". Some bulls are what they are and will never meet the "non-subjective" standard. They are bulls, they bugle, they rut, they fight, and 80% of hunters who draw these tags are happy with killing one under these circumstances. It is so easy to say "350" and then what, the bull only scores 346. Is the bull any less because the hunter was off by 4"? 

Congrats to the hunter.... the smile says it was worth it for him. I doesn't matter what I would do, because I already shot my OIL bull in Utah. This guy's uncle should be thumping him for posting his bull all across the web and eluding to the fact that it is sub-standard.


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## sharpshooter25 (Oct 2, 2007)

Well I tried to post my reply but for some reason it didn't work so if it comes up later I apologize.

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for your input on this thread. I hope that none of you feel that I am putting down this bull because I am not. I think it is a great bull, and also this was his first elk ever so what a great memory he will have. With that being said I have an update on this bull.

Last night my brother in-law came over to show me the video of his hunt, what an exciting video to watch. They called in this bull at first light from quite a ways away. The bull started to get close, and he asked the guy he was with whether or not he should shoot him. The guy he was with stated that he was a 6X6 and it was his call. So, when the elk got to probably 30 yards from them, he took him. I think that he mainly wanted at least a 6 point bull, and what a great bull for your first one, and that memory will last forever with him. Especially calling in a bull that close, and having him scream in your face. As I stated before, I am not putting down his bull, because it is a great bull, and many of you have stated that he looks very happy, and he is and that is all that matters. So thanks again to all of your input on this thread, and good luck to you on the rest of your seasons.


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## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

Definitely hold out...

'Cause you KNOW a bigger bull would taste that much better. :roll: 
Still can't figure out why I read, let alone participate in this tripe.
'Antler Nazi'- never heard that before, but it's definitely going into my working vocabulary.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

It sounds like a great hunt. I've not hunted the Books. In the areas I have hunted elk in the past though, this would be an easy choice - take it. I've never hunted in a 'premium LE unit' before - just general units in Idaho. This would be a good elk, and the story and experience matter most. Thanks for sharing a great hunt with us.

Gary


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

threshershark said:


> Thack said:
> 
> 
> > My pointy is do you honestly have any Idea what the average size of Bulls in the book cliffs is??
> ...


MY BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

so you are a stand up guy good! First off if you think this really rattled me that is funny! I have enjoyed every minute of it!   

I just feel for the guy who just spen t 15 years shoots a bull he is proud of and then get congrats and condolences at the same time nice bull cough cough should have worked harder cough cough

let him enjoy it!

I don't come here often (big game rorum for reasons like this

I


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Thack said:


> I just feel for the guy who just spen t 15 years shoots a bull he is proud of and then get congrats and condolences at the same time nice bull cough cough should have worked harder cough cough
> 
> let him enjoy it!
> 
> ...


Let's be fair/real for a minute! If someone posts pictures of a bull and asks for feedback, WTH do you expect will happen? If the hunter is happy with it, GREAT. If he is second guessing his decision to shoot a SMALL bull on opening day. And yes, this IS a small bull for this unit on opening day with a rifle. That is reality, not opinion. But, if this is the bull the hunter wanted I say congrats. Just don't ask my if I would shoot it and then when I say no get all offended. :? I can't find a post where the hunter was 'insulted' or put down, what I read is that MOST who have posted wouldn't have shot that bull on opening day, nothing more to it than that. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill cowboy!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> The funny thing is that bull might be 12 years old, yet some say "*milk on the lips"*. Some bulls are what they are and will never meet the "non-subjective" standard. They are bulls, they bugle, they rut, they fight, and 80% of hunters who draw these tags are happy with killing one under these circumstances. It is so easy to say "350" and then what, the bull only scores 346. Is the bull any less because the hunter was off by 4"?
> 
> Congrats to the hunter.... the smile says it was worth it for him. I doesn't matter what I would do, because I already shot my OIL bull in Utah. This guy's uncle should be thumping him for posting his bull all across the web and eluding to the fact that it is sub-standard.


Just so we're clear, that was _complete_ sarcasm. The ONLY thing that matters is if the tag holder is happy, nothing else.

BUT, the author asked what we thought, so we let him know.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

My sarcasm has also been lost many times through the marvels of the internet. The little green guy at the end of your sentence should have clued me in. 

I still think the hunter should thump his B-I-L for even posting the photo and asking that loaded question... :mrgreen:


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## mr.seven (Sep 18, 2007)

am i the only hunter that noticed a nice pile of steaks and roasts and chops here. oops my bad i am on the braggers forum not the hunters forum


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

:roll:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

mr.seven said:


> am i the only hunter that noticed a nice pile of steaks and roasts and chops here. oops my bad i am on the braggers forum not the hunters forum


You must of not read the first post. Otherwise you would see this was a LE hunt where MOST hunters are after a 'trophy' not merely meat. If one merely wants meat there are plenty of general season tags available that are much easier to obtain. Before you try and insult folks, get a clue on what the subject matter is!


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## Cold Track (Sep 11, 2007)

If you're putting in for an LE unit just to get a piece of meat you probably ought to hang up your hunting boots. As Pro said, people put in for LE's for a chance at a trophy. The majority of hunters out there haven't actually seen that many if any 350 bulls, or 30 inch bucks and get excited when presented with a chance at 6 point bull or 4 point buck. Although I do know quite a few guys that hunt a couple of days a year and manage to see more 350 bulls and 30 inch bucks than anybody else. All in all if a hunter is satisfied and had a good time, good for him. But, if he's doubting himself...... well he should have took some deep breaths, thought about it, and passed on the bull.


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

PRO is here to save the day we are all good :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink: I will stand down! :wink: :roll:


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## mr.seven (Sep 18, 2007)

yes i read the first post pro and i stand corrected i just didnt relize that le hunts were made only for shooting antlers what a good time the tree huggers must be having with that statement oh by the way hunters can read to not just PRO trophy hunters


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Huh? o-|| 

Do you think they do age restricted harvest so we can have an extra 20 lbs. in the freezer???? Do you think residents would willingly wait 15 years and spend 6 or 7 hundred bucks overall for a meat hunt?? Please say no, it's the only way to save credibility at this point.


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## mr.seven (Sep 18, 2007)

credibility with you or the tree huggers are you trying to tell me that we have hunts mainly for antler size i would hope most people hunt for meat first antler size is a bonus


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

We aren't speaking of "hunts" in general, we are speaking Utah LE elk hunting which for the most part *ARE* for antler size.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I have always thought the LE hunts was a place a person go and have a very good chance of filling a tag. It is the trophy hunters who are saying that a bull has to be a certain size to fill a tag with. Not your average hunter.

your premium units are for trophy hunting.

we all know how hard it is to fill a tag in a general season area.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

mr.seven said:


> credibility with you or the tree huggers are you trying to tell me that we have hunts mainly for antler size i would hope most people hunt for meat first antler size is a bonus


Speaking for those of us that have not draw a tag yet.... 7 we love you! Keep going after the meat and we will hope for a tag for the RACKS!

Come draw time, if it takes me shaving the stash into a little hitler.... IT WILL BE DONE!!!!!! :mrgreen:

And that is a **** fine bull! Hell of alot bigger than anything I have shot!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

mr.seven said:


> credibility with you or the tree huggers are you trying to tell me that we have hunts mainly for antler size i would hope most people hunt for meat first antler size is a bonus


That would be like waiting in line for a high end restaurant for two hours to then go in and get a hot dog. There are much easier, efficient and economical ways of obtaining a standard item, if you want something premium like a tag you must wait many years and pay much more than a regular tag. I don't criticize this hunter's choice even though an opinion was very oddly requested, seems odd to me. People have simply stated that they may not have shot this one on the opening day at the request of the original poster. 


mr.seven said:


> am i the only hunter that noticed a nice pile of steaks and roasts and chops here. oops my bad i am on the braggers forum not the hunters forum


Are you really that dense? I am amazed at your lack of intelligence and spiteful manner, that is an impressive contribution, thanks for your participation in enlightening us all on your hunting techniques and ethics!



mr.seven said:


> yes i read the first post pro and i stand corrected i just didnt relize that *limited entry* hunts were made only for shooting antlers what a good time the tree huggers must be having with that statement oh by the way hunters can read to not just PRO trophy hunters


Seriously, what would be your objective on the first day of a 15 day or so hunt of which you had been waiting for about 15 years to obtain?


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

A close friend of mind drew for the "Books" 5 or six years back. He is one of the most educated people I know when it comes to hunting and scoring bulls and bucks on the hoof. He scouted for 10 days at least packing in on horses and mules each time. This was the time you could get archey, muzzle and any weapon for a small fee (Before Premium Tag LE were around). Any how he shot the after hunting for many days and passing on many bulls he shot the biggest bull in the area he was hunting. He knew the area, did his home work, and still shot a bull that would not meet some of your standards. Yes it was substantaly bigger, as far as score goes than this fellows at the beginning of the post. The point is he was happy with his hunt due to the fact he shot the biggest bull in the area at that time. 

According to him he would not hunt that unit agian because of the size of bull he shot and the bulls he ended up having to choose from. In fact his dad drew two years later for the wasach and shot a bigger bull. 

Point being it was still one he$# of a bull on for most people. That being said when I FINALLY draw my tag eventually. I will have this friend standing right next to me with a clear understanding of what calabier of bull I want to shoot. 

Putting a tape on a animal is a way to show a score for everyone to see. Thats it and I guess why it is called a SPORT. There is nothing wrong with hunting for score as long as you dont put people down for shooting something that would not meet your expitations. In this posts case. The question was asked if you would shoot the bull with the tag in your pocket. My answer would be "NO." 

But I would not give my opinion to anyone about a particuar bull or buck unless asked specificaly. I learned from my previous mistake. 

Happy hunting to you all. 


By the way if you draw a LE tag it seems reasonable to shoot the biggest bull you would be happy with. Not just for meat. IMO


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

It is all in the eye of the beholder...... I have seen 380 bulls that were ugly and I have seen 350 bulls that were way better looking, My friends Dad has a 320 that looks awesome . I would shoot the bull that looks good to me cause I am the one who will be looking at it for years to come. Score it over rated, and just in place for bragging rights. Shoot what YOU want not what everyone else tells you.


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