# Wildfires



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

The two wildfires up north are shaping up to look pretty devastating. 68 thousand acres that fast? I've never hunted the area or been in t but the images I've seen are scary. How someone made the call to let a 400 acre wildfire they could have contained with dry air and wind in the forecast they knew was coming is beyond me. Those two fires should have been put out before the wind kicked in yesterday, and I believe they said Sunday or Monday may be the soonest they can get to fighting it adequately due to conditions. I'll never be in favor of transfer, but better management strategies needs to be accomplished. I understand letting a fire burn for natural purposes, but not with wind and dry heat in the forecast. I saw on twitter a forest service employee said he doesn't remember ever seeing a stretch of 5 days where weather would almost completely inhibit them from adequately fighting a fire like this. Prayers to those in harms way, and I hope they can give this thing a good punch soon, because the long term forecast looks hot, dry, and no storms. I'm just in awe the call was made to let these fires go with the forecast that was coming.

https://www.ksl.com/article/4639092...ntain-fire-in-utah-county-burn-over-68k-acres


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

I’ve hunted that area my whole life. What they allowed to happen is absolutely disgusting. This fire that would potentially “benefit wildlife” has now wiped out critical winter range and other areas those animals needed to survive. It’s sickening to know that animals were trapped in a lot of places that couldn’t get away from the fire or escape. Elk, deer, bears, turkeys, mountain goats... many animals have been killed, habitat destroyed and a beautiful mountain ruined due to laziness and refusal to do a job that they are paid, by tax payers, to do. This unit will never be the same. And when it does recover, most guys won’t live long enough to see it


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A problem with fires is that they don't put them out, they try and control them to the point that they will burn themselves out. 

These fires are not like house fires where you can dump a unlimited amount of water on them and actually put them out. I would hate to see the amount of manpower and equipment it would actually take to put out a fire in the forest. 

Good luck to all those that are in the way of the Pole Creek and Bald Mountain fires. The last report that I read said that they would quite likely merge into one.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Critter said:


> A problem with fires is that they don't put them out, they try and control them to the point that they will burn themselves out.
> 
> These fires are not like house fires where you can dump a unlimited amount of water on them and actually put them out. I would hate to see the amount of manpower and equipment it would actually take to put out a fire in the forest.
> 
> Good luck to all those that are in the way of the Pole Creek and Bald Mountain fires. The last report that I read said that they would quite likely merge into one.


These fires started with just a single or small group of trees burning. And I'm talking a very small fire at first. I went and looked at both of them right as they were started. Several local fire agencies volunteered to go in and put them out and were denied by the FS to do so. It would have taken 4 guys and a half day to get them out. But instead they chose to let them burn. And just like they always do, they waited until it was far too late to do something about it. And now look where we are.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Critter said:


> A problem with fires is that they don't put them out, they try and control them to the point that they will burn themselves out.
> 
> These fires are not like house fires where you can dump a unlimited amount of water on them and actually put them out. I would hate to see the amount of manpower and equipment it would actually take to put out a fire in the forest.
> 
> Good luck to all those that are in the way of the Pole Creek and Bald Mountain fires. The last report that I read said that they would quite likely merge into one.


Agreed, but a few days ago it was basically smoldering and could have been put out quickly without much man power or issue. There was hot dry air in the forecast with heavy winds expected and the call was made to let it burn and see what it did. It grew 20,000 acres over night and they are approaching 100,000. Under the right conditions I could see letting a fire burn. This was not the right conditions. This was the worst possible forecast to let a fire burn. Now they have a 2 headed monster on their hands with a terrible forecast going forward.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

sheepassassin said:


> I've hunted that area my whole life. What they allowed to happen is absolutely disgusting. This fire that would potentially "benefit wildlife" has now wiped out critical winter range and other areas those animals needed to survive. It's sickening to know that animals were trapped in a lot of places that couldn't get away from the fire or escape. Elk, deer, bears, turkeys, mountain goats... many animals have been killed, habitat destroyed and a beautiful mountain ruined due to laziness and refusal to do a job that they are paid, by tax payers, to do. This unit will never be the same. And when it does recover, most guys won't live long enough to see it


It will recover, trust me. There's been some big fires and landscapes and wildlife and very resilient things. It will be devastating in a lot of ways though.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Agreed, but a few days ago it was basically smoldering and could have been put out quickly *without much man power* or issue.


I think that's the answer to the question.



#1DEER 1-I said:


> Now they have a 2 headed monster on their hands with a terrible forecast going forward.


Lot's of overtime in the future. I see big pay checks, which means new trucks, boats, atv's.....


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I highly doubt the decision to let this burn out had to do with people being lazy or not wanting to do a job. Forest fires seem to be a catch 22. We complain incessantly that “natural” fires that are allowed to burn out don’t exist anymore to help regenerate healthy forests, then we get mad when they don’t put out a little fire immediately. 

Maybe it was the right call, maybe it wasn’t? I have zero expertise in this field. It sure looks bad, but I concede I don’t really have an educated opinion on this one. 

The unit will be fine. I’m not buying the apocalyptic assessment of this fire for wildlife.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/6199/47804/

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/6199/47803/

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/6199/47843/

Hindsight is almost always 20/20


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

middlefork said:


> https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/6199/47804/
> 
> https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/6199/47803/
> 
> ...


Yes, but strong winds were being forecasted along with high temps and low humidity many days before these fires exploded. Like I said, letting fires burn naturally is great in the long run when conditions are right to allow it. Am I an expert? No, but when I saw these two fires were burning and saw hot, dry, wind in the forecast, it wasn't hard to predict what was about to happen with how dry it has been all year and no storm in the forecast. We didn't need hindsight, we had a weather forecast that was obviously primed to make these fires explode. Wildlife and everything will recover after not many years, but this just seemed like the wrong call IMO, I thought that before they exploded and saw the weather forecast. It was obvious what was going to happen.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It would be great to have the knowledge that these wild land fire fighters have and be able to tell them what they need to do. Not to mention all the management tools that they need be right at their disposal just sitting down at the nearest airport or Forest Service office along with a couple hundred fire fighters.

Sad to say but they are stretched very thin this year. Most teams are on other fires but when one does get out of hand they will move people around, at least they try to move them around. 

Take a look at the InciWeb and look at all the other fires that are burning here in the west. I am sure that manpower is stretched very thin and to the point that some fires have National Guard troops that have been trained in wildland fires fighting them. 

As they say hindsight is 20/20, wouldn't it be nice if we could actually tell what is going to happen in the future?


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## hondodawg (Mar 13, 2013)

Yesterday 







Today
I first flew by it on Monday. It was very small

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Sitting at the Pleasant Grove football game, 20+ miles away, and the flames finally crested the ridge and you could see flames in the broad daylight. The hill is lit up like a Christmas tree now that it’s dark. 

I-Eye, im not buying this forecast stuff. The future forecast looking forward to Monday-Thursday this week was not different than the week before while the fire burned. It has been hot and dry all summer, but specifically all week and last week too. Where was the call for action then if you knew ahead of time? Sorry man, just not buying it. 

The forecast all year has been hot and dry. No change this week to anything out of the ordinary.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Due to its relative proximity to home, I have spent a fair bit of time in and near the burn area. Also, my business partners are currently out of their home due to the evacuations. So this fire hits a bit close to home. A few comments. 

1. Over the long term, this fire will be a big benefit for the wildlife. A lot of the areas burning have either thick mixed conifer and scrub or at lower levels, heavy, overgrown scrub and small trees. The fire clearing that stuff out will provide much better habitat for animals in the future. Hunting in the area will not suffer in the long run, it will benefit. 

2. Asking the question about whether or not the fire should have been suppressed is also valid. It isn't just 1-eye, but the Lieutenant Governor who asked the same thing. Certainly, hindsight is 20-20, so I'm not personally prepared to condemn the Forest Service at this time, but conversely, we did have a situation where a fire started in an area with extreme fire risk, (warm temps, heavy fuels that are tinder dry, and an unfavorable forecast for precipitation and wind) that is basically overlooking several high population centers , and deciding to just "watch it" . I do think it is reasonable for folks with more expertise than us on the UWN to look at the decision there at the proper time. It also raises the question about the wisdom of building in some of these foothills as was done in Elk Ridge and Woodland hills. 

3. Tomorrow will be the big day. The winds are supposed to be really bad and will be coming from due South. Lets pray the firefighting efforts can save a lot of folks homes and property without injury or loss of life.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

PBH said:


> I think that's the answer to the question.
> 
> Lot's of overtime in the future. I see big pay checks, which means new trucks, boats, atv's.....


as a former wildland firefighter I take exception with this comment. Not that it can't happen because it has in a few arson cases but not in a year like this. yes, someone made a bad call with a fire that had huge spread potential in continuous fuels w/ red flag conditions approaching. there's no way that in a year as busy as this one, some FS wildland IC made a call to pad his/her pocket. by this point in the season they are dog dick tired. the money is nice but being beat up for 4 months really takes a toll and those guys are ready to be released for fall. I remember one fire in october in jackson, wy where it snowed on us. you think we were stoked to head up there in october after a long season?

fwiw, it's not always as easy as you'd think to just drop a few smoke jumpers into a hazardous situation like that to IA a fire in dry continuous fuels. that's how bad headlines get made.

a helitack crew with some bucket support might have worked but who knows if those resources were available at the time?


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

The biggest issue a lot of guys have with this whole thing is, there were several fire agencies from surrounding cities who volunteered to have guys head up and go put them out when they were small. They contacted the FS for permission and they shut down every offer and said ‘no’. I understand resources are spread very thin this year, but that can’t be used as an excuse in this case when they had several fresh resources close to the area that offered to go do it on their own dime and no one else’s.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

btw, mirror lake hwy was smoked out today from these fires. i hunted down low by kamas and still couldn't see much. choking on smoke is no way to hunt.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

sheepassassin said:


> The biggest issue a lot of guys have with this whole thing is, there were several fire agencies from surrounding cities who volunteered to have guys head up and go put them out when they were small. They contacted the FS for permission and they shut down every offer and said 'no'. I understand resources are spread very thin this year, but that can't be used as an excuse in this case when they had several fresh resources close to the area that offered to go do it on their own dime and no one else's.


i can't speak to the reasons behind it but that fire certainly should have been dealt with when it was small. air resources would have been needed to do it safely and not knowing the quals of the volunteer resources makes me wonder if they were qualified for initial attack.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

sheepassassin said:


> I've hunted that area my whole life. What they allowed to happen is absolutely disgusting. This fire that would potentially "benefit wildlife" has now wiped out critical winter range and other areas those animals needed to survive. It's sickening to know that animals were trapped in a lot of places that couldn't get away from the fire or escape. Elk, deer, bears, turkeys, mountain goats... many animals have been killed, habitat destroyed and a beautiful mountain ruined due to laziness and refusal to do a job that they are paid, by tax payers, to do. This unit will never be the same. And when it does recover, most guys won't live long enough to see it


You're thinking this fire is way more dismal for wildlife than it actually is! Animals are built to evade danger and fires are no exception. I would be extremely surprised if this fire had a any noticeable impact on population numbers, especially big game. Here's an excerpt from an article Ive read on the Yellowstone fire

"A post-fire survey of the 1988 Yellowstone fires, which burned almost 800,000 acres, found that only about 350 elk died out of the park's estimated population of 50,000. In addition, the survey said only about 35 deer, six black bears, 12 moose, nine bison and one grizzly died"

While the immediate danger to homes and people is no joke I'd be extremely excited for what the future will hold if this were the unit I normally hunted. I've hunted plenty of burn areas in my current unit and they are awesome. Quite honestly this fires got me interested in hunting the Nebo in the near future


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Sitting at the Pleasant Grove football game, 20+ miles away, and the flames finally crested the ridge and you could see flames in the broad daylight. The hill is lit up like a Christmas tree now that it's dark.
> 
> I-Eye, im not buying this forecast stuff. The future forecast looking forward to Monday-Thursday this week was not different than the week before while the fire burned. It has been hot and dry all summer, but specifically all week and last week too. Where was the call for action then if you knew ahead of time? Sorry man, just not buying it.
> 
> The forecast all year has been hot and dry. No change this week to anything out of the ordinary.


The wind. The wind was different. The wind picked up yesterday and helped make these fires explode. The wind tomorrow has been in the forecast since these fires were small. They should have put them out. Tomorrow there is a very good chance things become worse.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> The two wildfires up north are shaping up to look pretty devastating. 68 thousand acres that fast? I've never hunted the area or been in t but the images I've seen are scary.* How someone made the call to let a 400 acre wildfire they could have contained with dry air and wind in the forecast they knew was coming is beyond me. Those two fires should have been put out before the wind kicked in yesterday,* and I believe they said Sunday or Monday may be the soonest they can get to fighting it adequately due to conditions. I'll never be in favor of transfer, but better management strategies needs to be accomplished. I understand letting a fire burn for natural purposes, but not with wind and dry heat in the forecast. I saw on twitter a forest service employee said he doesn't remember ever seeing a stretch of 5 days where weather would almost completely inhibit them from adequately fighting a fire like this. Prayers to those in harms way, and I hope they can give this thing a good punch soon, because the long term forecast looks hot, dry, and no storms. I'm just in awe the call was made to let these fires go with the forecast that was coming.
> 
> https://www.ksl.com/article/4639092...ntain-fire-in-utah-county-burn-over-68k-acres


I believe I've accurately heard WHY they didn't put the fires out. Mind you guys, my info is 3hrd hand. That said I have met the source of the original info before, and I've no reason to doubt it. He works in fire, and that is all I'm going to say on where I've heard it, I don't want to get the guy in trouble. There's too much politics involved.

Everyone's heard that they let it smolder to rehabilitate the area. Fire is nature's fertilizer, everyone knows that. But what they aren't saying is WHY they came to that decision.

It wasn't the USFS who made this decision. It was a decision made by a local agency. Utah County Fire I believe. Why? Because they didn't want to pay for it. Apparently, federal aid cannot be requested until the fire is 1000 acres or larger. I don't think 1000 is a lot in the big scheme of things when you look at wildfires in general, but none the less, they didn't want to expend the funds to put it out, so they let is smolder. The original fire after the lighting strike was about 4 TREES. Thats it, and they just let it go. You know dang well they were up there when they had a count on what was burning. One helicopter run could have put it out. Nope, they just let it go.

So now peoples homes are in jeopardy because someone didn't want to foot the bill on a 4 tree fire. People are blaming the forest servce, and I don't think the USFS had anything to do with it.

Another note: There's so much fuel up in those mountains because at least 5 years ago, they stopped issuing as many wood cutting permits. Nobody knows exactly why, but politics had much to do with it. So all the dead fall has been piling up for a few years now.

Ive been up in the local mountains A LOT, especially around where the coal hollow fire was. There is (or rather was) a TON of dead fall up there. The timber was REALLY dark and thick in some areas. So it stands to reason the Pole canyon fire conditions are very similar since it's not that far away.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I was down on our place Thurs-Fri. The fire is about 2 miles away and keeps creeping south while it rages north and east. It was huge. It was fast. Faster than the Wood Hollow fire that burned our place. Faster than any fire I have witnessed. They are throwing everything they can at certain areas-- but the homes come first. More stress in life from something that did not need to happen.



#1DEER 1-I said:


> How someone made the call to let a _400 _ -- I will fix this --* 1/4* acre wildfire they could have contained with dry air and wind in the forecast they knew was coming is beyond me.


We can all second guess and look back, but this area currently has the worst drought in the nation.

www.twitter.com/UtahWildfire/status/1038959694633553920
www.twitter.com/UtahWildfire/status/1038964479210311680
www.twitter.com/UtahWildfire/status/1038965598204522497

It was 1/4 acre or less for a couple days, then went to 1/2 acre, then 6-10 acres, then 40, then 400, then 1,500, then 35,000, then to 55,000. A helicopter for 2 hours would have put it out. Every citizen who checks the weather and hikes the areas knew the conditions and the forecast-- the decision to let it burn was poor at best.



brendo said:


> You're thinking this fire is way more dismal for wildlife than it actually is! Animals are built to evade danger and fires are no exception. I would be extremely surprised if this fire had a any noticeable impact on population numbers, especially big game. Here's an excerpt from an article Ive read on the Yellowstone fire
> 
> "A post-fire survey of the 1988 Yellowstone fires, which burned almost 800,000 acres, found that only about 350 elk died out of the park's estimated population of 50,000. In addition, the survey said only about 35 deer, six black bears, 12 moose, nine bison and one grizzly died"


Just my opinion, but this fire was different. It moved so fast in rough country. It burned much needed winter range. It burned hot. So hot. Yellowstone burned 800,000 acres in almost 3 months in different terrain, with different plant types, and a different climate. The Pole Creek fire burned 35,000+ acres in less than 24 hours (a burn rate of over a million acres a month- almost 3.5x faster than the Yellowstone example). Call me a skeptic, but how did they count carcasses in 800,000 acres? At any rate, this will do some good for wildlife, but I think in this case it is more on the bad side.

..


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Packout said:


> Just my opinion, but this fire was different. It moved so fast in rough country.
> ..


That's the cited reason they did not go in and try and put it out. The canopy was such water drops wouldn't have put it out, and it was in a steep dangerous area where on ground fighters would have difficulty getting clear if it were to blow up... which it did.

Odds are if the hotshots did 'chute in, some of them might not be alive today. Sucks, but I do see their side of things and it does make sense.

-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

DallanC said:


> That's the cited reason they did not go in and try and put it out. The canopy was such water drops wouldn't have put it out, and it was in a steep dangerous area where on ground fighters would have difficulty getting clear if it were to blow up... which it did.
> Odds are if the hotshots did 'chute in, some of them might not be alive today. Sucks, but I do see their side of things and it does make sense.
> 
> -DallanC


I was quoting Brendo about the Yellowstone fires. Which were different than the Pole Fire.

As for the Pole Fire-- Did you follow the links I posted? The FS did not have to "chute in" firefighters. Then walked in and took mules and supplies with them. (There is a pic in the links and a press release stating so) So the safety argument is somewhat invalid or why would they have fire fighters on the ground controlling the 1/2 acre fire? The fact is a helicopter or possibly even the ground crew could have put it out when it was small.

And of course the FS didn't know what would happen, nor did they want this. It is a sad event for everyone in the area.

..


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

DallanC said:


> That's the cited reason they did not go in and try and put it out. The canopy was such water drops wouldn't have put it out, and it was in a steep dangerous area where on ground fighters would have difficulty getting clear if it were to blow up... which it did.
> 
> Odds are if the hotshots did 'chute in, some of them might not be alive today. Sucks, but I do see their side of things and it does make sense.
> 
> -DallanC


correct. buckets of water alone wouldn't put it out. it would only knock it down and give hand crews a chance.

btw, hotshots are type 1 IA, smoke jumpers jump from a plane or walk in, helitack rides a bird and the NUT REGS are a type 2 IA. engine crews are just that and don't usually get very far from the engine. fuels crews reduce fuels in key areas to prevent small fires from becoming big ones. they don't typically work active fire, rather do preventative work which allows IA crews to get the jump on small fires. all these guys detail with other agencies and get experience, so you may get a engine guy working helitack.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I was on an engine crew for about 7 years. Worked some interesting fires at times. Took brush trucks up into some nasty stuff to help support the ground guys.




-DallanC


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

A couple takeaways from this conversation. 

1)The fire was small and could have been put out easily at first.
2) Fire crews are spent and severely stretched by late season.
3) Someone made the decision to let it burn.
4) That decision may have had politics / budgetary decisions involved.
5) The overall result SHOULD BE good for wildlife.
6) Building in the wildland areas is not a good idea.

IMO humans are really at cause for alot of these catastrophic fires. I say catastrophic, as they are such because we have built homes right up to the edge or within these wildland, forested areas and the catastrophe comes when homes and lives are at stake. Look at the CA fires as of late. People want their hones tucked right into the forest, then scratch their heads when an entire subdivision or more goes up in flames.

I think that we need to do a better job of planning. Everyone wants to make a buck, and what better for developers than putting these developments in beautiful, yet in reality, dangerous locations? It's not just the developer's faults either - planners and the general public all share in it. We really need to take a step back as a society and evaluate these decisions because hindsight...which is ALWAYS 20-20, seems to indicate that they have been bad ones for the past several decades.

I hope this does not come across as callous as it is not meant to be. My thoughts and prayers are with all those that are directly involved or impacted by this beast.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

What I heard, and posted earlier, was probably ONE of the reasons they let it burn. At this point, I don't think I've heard the entire story. I'm sure there's alot that went into this, more then what I've heard 3rd hand.

This was interesting to watch.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

APD said:


> as a former wildland firefighter I take exception with this comment.


Glad I hit a nerve.

Too bad that nerve wasn't hit with someone that could actually do something about it.

How often does this happen? Too often. Why?
This has been a very bad fire year. We've known this would be a bad year since February. Heads should roll.

I keep thinking about the Dutton (Sanford) fire from 2002. These fires didn't have to happen.

As for the benefit to wildlife: Sure, it might benefit some wildlife. But one thing is for sure -- *THEY WILL NOT BENEFIT FISH*!

The negative effects on fish will be felt for years to come.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

This won't impact the Lower Provo, so everyone should be fine with it.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> This won't impact the Lower Provo, so everyone should be fine with it.


True, but you never know. I wouldn't have dreamed that the fire would get clear to Diamond fork and the right hand fork of Hobble creek, but it has. (at least with evacuations)


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Having survived a wildfire back in '15 while visiting my brother in California. I came to the conclusion that wildfires are a catch 22 situation. During the years when we have a lot a rain and moisture we are happy and love the growth and lack of fires. Sadly those high water/moisture years only create more fuel for the dry/drought years. Either way we can't win against nature.

My brother lives up in June Lake, CA and operates a fishing lodge. I remember something he said that surprised me as they evacuated their guests and we prepared to evacuate ourselves... "This is the inevitable beast we face by coming into this paradise to make our homes and livelihood and fool ourselves by thinking we can control something that can't be controlled"

I can tell you that nothing I have ever lived through scared me as much as that fire did. More so because I knew that everything my brother and his family had worked so hard for could disappear in a flash including and up to their own lives.

I pray that that people affected by the fire will first and foremost come out safe and sound from this. I pray that all those that are involved in containing and fighting it are able to return unharmed to their homes and families. I also pray that none of this was due to a political/financial decision that will cost people their homes, livelihood and up to their lives. Having to live with that would be a terrible burden that I don't think I could handle because the mountain will recover....many people may not.

My the lord watch over those affected.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow, looks like it's moved 5 miles up Diamond Fork in less than 24 hours. The canyons my family has hunted for 4 generations are going up in smoke as I type...

It's hard to believe how fast things can change. Best of luck to those with cabins up that way.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> This won't impact the Lower Provo, so everyone should be fine with it.


Forget the LoPro, this fire could get to Strawberry. I wonder what effect it would have on the Berry with fires hitting both the western and eastern shores this year.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Forget the LoPro, this fire could get to Strawberry. I wonder what effect it would have on the Berry with fires hitting both the western and eastern shores this year.


if it is already heading up Diamond Fork, then it's gone, as well as Sixth Water. probably more too (not very familiar with that area). Flooding will then become an issue all the way down Spanish Fork canyon. But, that's OK because the fires benefit the wildlife. :neutral:

I guess if it gets into the Indian Creek drainage, you could see some potential problems at Strawberry -- same with all those other tribs on the west side.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> if it is already heading up Diamond Fork, then it's gone, as well as Sixth Water. probably more too (not very familiar with that area). Flooding will then become an issue all the way down Spanish Fork canyon. But, that's OK because the fires benefit the wildlife. :neutral:
> 
> I guess if it gets into the Indian Creek drainage, you could see some potential problems at Strawberry -- same with all those other tribs on the west side.


Yes, the last map I saw had it heading to sixth water but not there yet, although the maps I seem to get usually are a about a half a day slow. Diamond Fork is going to be altered, :sad: which now hits even closer to home personally as far as fishing is concerned. A lot though will depend on the wind strength and direction. I'm on my lunch break and was looking at the burn areas visible in the valley in conjunction with Woodland Hills and Elk Ridge. Things look pretty quiet right now over here.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Here is the last map that I have seen, not sure when it was updated last.


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## runallday (Sep 17, 2018)

I was up there sept 1 through sept 9th, the fire was very small and way high up at treeline. I would have made the same decision to let it burn out. The areas that held scrub oak were the driest I've ever seen in the 30 years. We even made the comment that if the oaks ever caught fire it would burn to Loafer. Unfortunately the winds hit it just right and now the canyon is torched and my neighborhood is evacuated. This fire will burn at the scrub oak level for a very long time. We're looking at a 250k+ fire.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Catherder said:


> Forget the LoPro, this fire could get to Strawberry. I wonder what effect it would have on the Berry with fires hitting both the western and eastern shores this year.


I was on the south side of strawberry this weekend, south of renegade and along Indian creek . The smoke was not incredibly bad as the winds were blowing south to north. We did have some ash come down Saturday night. The thing that really made me wonder is that we hardly got to see any elk or hear any bugling. I am sure that the smell and smoke pushed much of the heard out of that area and possibly north and east into the currant creek area.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

MadHunter said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> > Forget the LoPro, this fire could get to Strawberry. I wonder what effect it would have on the Berry with fires hitting both the western and eastern shores this year.
> ...


I had the exact opposite thing happen this weekend "near" renegade bulls were screaming and seen quite a few Elk


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

hazmat said:


> I had the exact opposite thing happen this weekend "near" renegade bulls were screaming and seen quite a few Elk


To your point... I did see a lot of folks glassing the mountainside to the east of renegade where the pavement ends. I figured there must have been some elk there. South of renegade, along the tall power lines, was pretty quiet.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

yup that was the area. seen a total of 50 plus elk.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

runallday said:


> I was up there sept 1 through sept 9th, the fire was very small and way high up at treeline. I would have made the same decision to let it burn out. The areas that held scrub oak were the driest I've ever seen in the 30 years. We even made the comment that if the oaks ever caught fire it would burn to Loafer. Unfortunately the winds hit it just right and now the canyon is torched and my neighborhood is evacuated. This fire will burn at the scrub oak level for a very long time. We're looking at a 250k+ fire.


I don't think it will end up more than 120k acres when it's out.
I'm guessing things will be looking a whole lot better by the end of this weekend.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

ridgetop said:


> I'm guessing things will be looking a whole lot better by the end of this weekend.


I hope so! The area I'll be hunting is not directly impacted by the fires, but the fires have cut off the quickest access routes. I was hoping to do some scouting the next couple of weeks, but with the road closures, the distance and time it would take just to get there becomes prohibitive.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> I don't think it will end up more than 120k acres when it's out.
> I'm guessing things will be looking a whole lot better by the end of this weekend.


I sure hope you are right. However, we are supposed to get windier weather towards the end of the week. The part of the fire threatening the populated areas looks a lot more promising right now. Fingers crossed. We were still incredibly smoky here this morning so there is still a ways to go.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> I was hoping to do some scouting the next couple of weeks, but with the road closures, the distance and time it would take just to get there becomes prohibitive.


You could always hire a guide to do it for you.

:smile:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

PBH said:


> You could always hire a guide to do it for you.
> 
> :smile:


You are such a putz! A funny putz, but a putz, nonetheless.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You know what chaps my hide more than anything else with these fires? The absolute IDIOTS thinking they need to fly their drones near the fires. I just heard that the air attack on these fires were grounded today due to a drone flying in the area. Whenever someone does this, there should be the opportunity for people to line up for miles to take turns kicking said person straight in the groin. Over, and over, and over again. 

Seriously, what kind of a narcissistic, class A (insert bad word of choice here) do you have to be to put firefighters and further property in danger so you can get a better look at the flames? 

I could go on, but I think that suffices. It’s good to get that off my chest.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> You know what chaps my hide more than anything else with these fires? The absolute IDIOTS thinking they need to fly their drones near the fires. I just heard that the air attack on these fires were grounded today due to a drone flying in the area. Whenever someone does this, there should be the opportunity for people to line up for miles to take turns kicking said person straight in the groin. Over, and over, and over again.
> 
> Seriously, what kind of a narcissistic, class A (insert bad word of choice here) do you have to be to put firefighters and further property in danger so you can get a better look at the flames?
> 
> I could go on, but I think that suffices. It's good to get that off my chest.


during the Dollar ridge fire was going on and I was pulling my hair out wondering if my hunting cabin would be ok. some jack wagon did the exact same thing. I cant Express the thoughts that crossed my mind on what I would do to the person flying the drone.
I think firefighters should be able to shoot them down at first site


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## Hunttilidrop (Jun 12, 2018)

I can’t understand why they don’t just shoot the **** thing (or said idiot controlling it Jk) out of the sky and carry on about their air attack. There’s probably some technical reason that I don’t get but how hard could it be??


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Hunttilidrop said:


> I can't understand why they don't just shoot the **** thing (or said idiot controlling it Jk) out of the sky and carry on about their air attack. There's probably some technical reason that I don't get but how hard could it be??


the technology exists but laws prevent them from disabling drones. last year there was some chatter here about it, EMP's, i believe.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The drone stopped planes from dropping along a line that coming toward our place. That is a tough one to swallow. Mandatory jail time for anyone caught flying drones around active fires. 
I am so tired of drones flying during fires, over private lands, and their nuisance.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Sorry to hear that Packout. I hope the line is able to still hold. This is why it angers me so much. There are real people involved here. It is not a stupid video game or virtual realty experience. 

If a drone causes an aircraft to drop its payload in an unintended location or to not drop its payload at all, it’s a class A misdemeanor under Utah law. Just flying one in a closed zone is a class B misdemeanor by itself. The problem is these things have such range now that it might be really tough to figure who is doing it. 

But I agree—extremely tough penalties for these actions are appropriate, in my opinion.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

Packout said:


> The drone stopped planes from dropping along a line that coming toward our place. That is a tough one to swallow. Mandatory jail time for anyone caught flying drones around active fires.
> I am so tired of drones flying during fires, over private lands, and their nuisance.


That really sucks Packout. I hope your land makes it through.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks guys. The fire jumped a dozer line. The wind change out of the north tonight is the concern for us- which can push the fire South East. The homes are and should be more important than the range lands. Our place burned a lot in the Wood Hollow fire 6 years ago so this isn't a new rodeo. I am really tired of drones for many reasons....


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