# Heads up on Sleeping pad R value



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Sometime in 2020, i guess some big name outdoor industry companies agreed to some 3rd party standard on the R value rating of sleeping pads. Some here probably already knew this. Unless your like me, bought a pad 2 or 3 years ago, and never gave it another thought. At least I didn't until now, i'm already buying crap for fall / late fall / early winter while I can. Basically the R value standard has changed, and some things have gone down in rated value, and in the case of the pad I was using, justifiably so.

Back in the winter of 2020, I was using a Klymit Insulated Static V, combined with a thermarest Sol Lite foam pad. The former was advertised at 4.4 R value, the later at 2.8, for what I thought was a combined R value of 7.2 Considering I was sleeping with 4 feet of snow under me, I thought this important. (/sarcasm) During this trip, using a zero degree bag with a reactor bag liner, I was cool at best, and slightly cold at worst. Never completely warm. I knew I was losing heat under me, but it was at a tolerable level. When I struck camp, there was a nice sheet of ice the shape of my foam mat instead of compacted snow. Kind of a clue. My total combined R value according to this new standard was actually 4. Klymit insulated static V went from a 4.4 rating according to Klymit, down to a miserable 1.9. Thermarest sol lite, went from a 2.8 to a 2.1. So apparently, a foam pad is more insulated then the Klymit pad.

Anyway, this guy explains the R value standard:





As for the Klymit Insulated Static V. I bought it because I wanted to support a Utah company, and because the price was right. Sorry to say, I will never use that pad again in the winter. Maybe summer if i tent camp instead of hammock camp. In fact their website will still list their old R value first, followed by the new standard. I suspect they don't like admitting their pad doesnt work as advertised. Frankly, I think the design is outright faulty, as illustrated in the heat loss in this video. 





Anyway, just a heads up if your looking to buy/upgrade/replace gear now for the Fall.


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## bthewilde (Feb 8, 2018)

Thermarest is the way to go, I have had a ProLite + for about a decade w/o any issues on the ground or a cot. Are you backpacking only or car camping? I know a lot of people don't want to mess with a cot, but they make a huge difference. I have an alps outdoor mountaineering cot and it keeps you off the ground just enough it's perfect. Much easier to deal wtih than my full sized Slumberjack. 
Back to pads though, the R rating is intriguing! I have used my Prolite+ and a Zpad in snow on the ground when backpacking at it was great. They're the best! The foam really does make a huge difference and they're not much heavier. 
Buy once cry once, right?


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

bthewilde said:


> Thermarest is the way to go, I have had a ProLite + for about a decade w/o any issues on the ground or a cot. *Are you backpacking only or car camping?* I know a lot of people don't want to mess with a cot, but they make a huge difference. I have an alps outdoor mountaineering cot and it keeps you off the ground just enough it's perfect. Much easier to deal wtih than my full sized Slumberjack.
> Back to pads though, the R rating is intriguing! I have used my Prolite+ and a Zpad in snow on the ground when backpacking at it was great. They're the best! The foam really does make a huge difference and they're not much heavier.
> Buy once cry once, right?


In october, i'll be car camping most likely. In Nov, Dec, and Jan, I suspect i'll be backpacking since the roads will be closed, or at best, camping off a 4 wheeler, which is almost the same thing.

I got a big agnes rapide SL in the other day. R value of 4, which means i'll probably still need a foam pad, but the main reason i got it, was it seems like it would be more comfortable than the thermarest xtherm. At 48, doing a solo backpack in late fall/early winter on a cow tag, I kinda want to be warm AND comfortable.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I've been pleasantly surprised and impressed at how comfortable my Neoair Xtherm MAX is these past several years. I'm a side sleeper and usually my hips and shoulders dig through whatever pad I use, to the point that for car camping I just use a 4" thick memory foam mattress topper. But, this pad ends up holding up overnight and I have minimal tossing/turning wake ups. I used it last winter up near the arctic circle tent camping and was very pleased with how well it insulated me. Slept in my briefs with that pad and my zPacks quilt.


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## bthewilde (Feb 8, 2018)

Can't go wrong with anything Big Agnes! I would still suggest a pad for sure, but otherwise it sounds like you're set. Pair it with a good down bag and voila!


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