# Utah Hunting Expo



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

After my previous post about different organizations, I was wondering. Personally I've never had anything to do with the expo, but I was wondering others opinions on it. Where does the. $5 fee go, where does the money raised from tags go? And do you believe the expo has done and is doing any good ?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Better question, why do all the convention tags go to this one single convention run by SWF? Why don't the other conventions like the one in southtown get a crack at some of these convention tags?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/fact_sheets/permit_differences.pdf

^^^^^ A few answers^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

The contract is between the state and the SFW and the MDF. When the contract comes up again I'm sure it's open to other groups like any other state contract.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Read the multitude of other threads already hashing this over. If you have questions after that I would recommend posting then. Good luck because there is a lot of BS in some of those threads.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/fact_sheets/permit_differences.pdf
> 
> ^^^^^ A few answers^^^^^^^^^^^^


Right but is there any real proof the application fees and money go toward wildlife ? And any proof of how much ?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

What exactly would you consider proof? Are you looking receipts the deer gave the biologist?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

TS30 said:


> What exactly would you consider proof? Are you looking receipts the deer gave the biologist?


I'm looking for proof that a good percentage of the money is used where it is said and not pocketed by corrupt individuals.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Right but is there any real proof the application fees and money go toward wildlife ? And any proof of how much ?


It's true that there has been some money for wildlife projects that has come out of their organization's general account and not the mandated/seperate CONSERVATION (auction) permit account. But since the CONVENTION (Expo) $5 application fees are mixed with membership dues and general fund raising monies in their organization's general account, it's difficult, even for them, to tell what money is being spent for what and how much. So, no, there is no proof that I'm aware of.

This is why UWC has asked that the application fees be put in a seperate account that's audited. When the contract comes up again in 2016, there will be some discussions/negotiations with UWC, SFW, MDF and DWR. They decided to wait 'til then because there could be legal issues with trying to change a current contract.

Also, the original verbal intent was to run the application fee program like the CONSERVATION (auction) permit program with a mandatory (and audited) % return to the DWR and/or wildlife, but that didn't show up in the written contract and the omission has simply been ignored by DWR, MDF and SFW. That issue will also be on the table in 2016 as will probably the % amounts. (and maybe the makeup of the tags).

With all of that, please know that UWC DOES NOT want to shut down the EXPO, nor MDF, nor SFW, nor are we trying to anger or embarass them or the DWR. We're simply asking for them to follow the original intent and for a public accounting of the money from the public permit application fees. In fact, we were surprised at their resistance given the fact that they claim a large portion of that money goes back to wildlife anyway. They don't feel the public has a right to their private affairs and they are correct, but that application money wouldn't be a private affair if it were seperated into a publically audited account as was intended!

As for the auctioned (CONSERVATION) tag program, it has a built in accounting system. 30% of that money goes directly to the DWR and 60% is retained by the organization in a seperate account that is used ONLY for DWR initiated or approved projects and those projects and the amounts are public information that we can get from the DWR. The remaining 10% is kept by the organization for administrative purposes and can be placed into their general account. And, as I mentioned, even some of that money goes back to wildlife which is a good thing.

Personally, I would have no problem (other than the amount of OIL tags) with either program per se if they were both operating as intended. What I have a problem with is the leverage/collateral those programs and the money give those organizations (particularly SFW) with the Legislators, DWR, RAC's, Wildlife Board and the public. They pretty much get everything they ask for regardless of the science or benefits to the public and all they have to do is remind us of their past accomplishments. That's way too much politicing for my tastes!

Well, you asked for my opinion and I guess I gave you more than you bargained for, but sometimes I get carried away with my detailed explanations. Even my kids and grandkids hate asking me some questions! Sorry!

Edited: The article cited in the link claims that DWR would have to raise the price of permits "substantially" if they lost the Conservation Permit program, but we're only talking about $5 to $12 dollars depending on how they spread the costs via the DWR permit application fees, licenses, different species permits, LE and OIL versus General permits and resident versus nonresident permits. Also, if more of us were to donate money directly or via the online application process or through the wildlife license plates program, OR if more of us donated some time to DWR projects, OR if we would bring back those 10,500 socially lost deer tags, we could lower those permit costs somewhat.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I'm looking for proof that a good percentage of the money is used where it is said and not pocketed by corrupt individuals.


No, you're looking for a 16-page argument. It never ceases to amaze me how many guys continually fall hook, line, and sinker for your useless drivel on this forum.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

TS30 said:


> No, you're looking for a 16-page argument. It never ceases to amaze me how many guys continually fall hook, line, and sinker for your useless drivel on this forum.


No it's useful information the public should know.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> No it's useful information the public should know.


lmao yeah so we cant do a gawd **** thing about it right? yep we need to know how it feels to get it broke off after the insertion.;-)


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> lmao yeah so we cant do a gawd **** thing about it right? yep we need to know how it feels to get it broke off after the insertion.;-)


Without the support of people, none of the groups get anywhere, they get no money, no support, and no power. We are the ones giving it to them, and we are the ones who can take it away, I would just like to know if the best interests are at heart with these organizations.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Without the support of people, none of the groups get anywhere, they get no money, no support, and no power. We are the ones giving it to them, and we are the ones who can take it away, I would just like to know if the best interests are at heart with these organizations.


..... no they are power hungry dirt bags. they want your money and then their done with you


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Without the support of people, none of the groups get anywhere, they get no money, no support, and no power. We are the ones giving it to them, and we are the ones who can take it away, I would just like to know if the best interests are at heart with these organizations.


The "best interests are at heart" is the rub! Who's interests? Each organization was started to promote specific interests broken down into species, types of hunting, areas, weapon types, etc. However, some of them have either lost their roots or have been taken over by others with a different vision.

One thing I look for is their mission statement and then I compare it to their actions, proposals, statements and policies to determine if they are still on track. Recently, I noticed that SFW has had a contest for their members to rewrite their mission statement. I don't know the results, but apparently they feel their original mission statement doesn't fit their vision anymore. That could be good or bad depending on the final version and depending on whose interests they feel they need to promote and depending on your interests.

One other thing I check is their IRS 990 form. The salaries of the officers are a big factor with me. I know that, in spite of what they may say, those salaries play a large part of their financial policies and eventually the financial policies drive most of their other policies. Maybe not at first, but once they begin establishing family, personal and business lifestyles based on those salaries, nearly all of them begin to do things differently. And some of it (not all) is probably subconscious in nature. They may not even know they're doing it and are shocked and offended when someone notices. BTW, this is generally true of all businesses and government agencies as well.

I also want to know how they treat their members individually. If I'm just a number, I get that from the IRS, NRA, AARP and Verizon. No thanks! I don't mean I should get a personal email or phone call every day, but a note, or email *once in a while* is nice. And when I have a problem or issue with them, I expect a cordial response! Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to find that out is to become a member.

Which brings up another option! Maybe you should try several before deciding which one(s) you prefer. You can always switch later on!

In any case, I wish you well in your search.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> The "best interests are at heart" is the rub! Who's interests? Each organization was started to promote specific interests broken down into species, types of hunting, areas, weapon types, etc. However, some of them have either lost their roots or have been taken over by others with a different vision.
> 
> I also want to know how they treat their members individually. If I'm just a number, I get that from the IRS, NRA, AARP and Verizon. No thanks! I don't mean I should get a personal email or phone call every day, but a note, or email *once in a while* is nice. And when I have a problem or issue with them, I expect a cordial response! Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to find that out is to become a member.
> 
> ...


I have not received an e-mail of any sort from UWC for over 6 months now. Kind of hard to support a group that keeps me in the dark. It would be real nice to see surveys asking members what they thought about curtain subjects. 
Lee, as far as I know. Your the new president of UWC.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> I have not received an e-mail of any sort from UWC for over 6 months now. Kind of hard to support a group that keeps me in the dark. It would be real nice to see surveys asking members what they thought about curtain subjects.
> Lee, as far as I know. Your the new president of UWC.


 I don't know if I'm at fault, or someone else, or if you've changed your email address, or what, but I forward updates of the deer transplants as well as surveys and other info to the members who signed up in the Southern Region on a regular basis. Maybe even that's too many, but I've only had one member ask me to stop, which I did. Unfortunately, we've also had 4 members change email addresses and/or move and we've lost track of them, but I have to admit I haven't spent the time I should have spent to try to find them, so don't make me president just yet. In fact, don't make me president at all, just send me your email address and I'll get it straightened out. [email protected]


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> I don't know if I'm at fault, or someone else, or if you've changed your email address, or what, but I forward updates of the deer transplants as well as surveys and other info to the members who signed up in the Southern Region on a regular basis. Maybe even that's too many, but I've only had one member ask me to stop, which I did. Unfortunately, we've also had 4 members change email addresses and/or move and we've lost track of them, but I have to admit I haven't spent the time I should have spent to try to find them, so don't make me president just yet. In fact, don't make me president at all, just send me your email address and I'll get it straightened out. [email protected]


elk, I sent you an e-mail.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> elk, I sent you an e-mail.


 Got it! Thanks!


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## Roadlesshunter (Mar 2, 2012)

I love the expo gets me more chances to draw a tag. I even got a book cliffs muzz deer tag in 2012. I am hoping for an elk tag this year.


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