# Out of state Deer/Elk tags???



## elkaddict11

This ia a question I have pondered after a lot but only researched a little. From some of the posts I've read it seems some of you could have some insight that might be helpful.
I've been wanting to start putting in for out of state Deer and Elk tags, I don't have a giant checkbook however. I was wondering what you guys think is the "Bang for your buck" State for nonresidents.


----------



## Critter

Hunting out of state is going to cost you one way or another. Right now the cheapest thing out there is Wyoming's doe antelope tags. You can start by purchasing a PP for antelope and deer starting July 1 until September.

Deer and elk are just going to cost you. Colorado has a two tier price on their elk. Cows are $451+$10.00 for a habitat stamp, bulls are $601+$10 habitat stamp, youth $100.75+$10 habitat stamp and that is for OTC and leftovers. If you want to put in for the draw add $3.00 per application and if you want PP and don't draw the refund will be -$40 for the point. And all money is up front when you apply. 
Also in Colorado there are no LE areas, there are areas that will take a Nr 15-20 years of points before they draw. Same with deer the more coveted tags will take years of applications before you will draw. But if you are a archery hunter there are premium units that can be had over the counter or with very few points for both deer and elk.


----------



## RoosterKiller

If you want to hunt every year you can.However you need to research the area. It can get expensive to hunt out of state. Tags and licenses are only part of the cost.Each state that you put in for will require you to purchase a license.e If you don't draw then to bad you get a point. If you put in for multiple states that can add up fast.
So this is what I do. I put in for a state that has other options such as. If I don't draw is there OTC available. Maybe the elk is draw but the deer is otc. There are a lot of options,but the best one is the one that gets you hunting every year with you filling your tag. In your case I would look at. Idaho,Wyoming,Colorado. All good hunting states with Draw and otc options. The learning of the area is the most important thing you can do.
Good Luck.


----------



## elkaddict11

If I was to put in for Colorado and wasn't successful do I get my money refunded (minus the application fees and cost of the PP), or is it like Nevada where I would have to buy an out of state hunting license in order to obtain a PP? Or is there a way to just build up PP like there is here in Utah?
I guess I phrased my question wrong, I realize it is going to cost quite a bit more to hunt out of state, and I could afford to do one hunt out of state every couple years. I just don't have the checkbook to be putting in for multiple out of state tags, or buy landowner tags.
Thanks for the info!


----------



## elkaddict11

RoosterKiller said:


> If you want to hunt every year you can.However you need to research the area. It can get expensive to hunt out of state. Tags and licenses are only part of the cost.Each state that you put in for will require you to purchase a license.e If you don't draw then to bad you get a point. If you put in for multiple states that can add up fast.
> So this is what I do. I put in for a state that has other options such as. If I don't draw is there OTC available. Maybe the elk is draw but the deer is otc. There are a lot of options,but the best one is the one that gets you hunting every year with you filling your tag. In your case I would look at. Idaho,Wyoming,Colorado. All good hunting states with Draw and otc options. The learning of the area is the most important thing you can do.
> Good Luck.


Is it true that in Wyoming if you don't draw your first choice you still get to keep your points?


----------



## Critter

In Colorado they will refund your tag cost minus the application fee and the PP fee

You don't have to purchase any other licenses in Colorado but if you do then the PP fee may be waved.


----------



## elkaddict11

Critter said:


> In Colorado they will refund your tag cost minus the application fee and the PP fee
> 
> You don't have to purchase any other licenses in Colorado but if you do then the PP fee may be waved.


If I am successful do I need to buy license?


----------



## Critter

If you are successful no other license is required. It includes a fishing license along with your animal tag.


----------



## elkaddict11

Thanks Critter for the information! I will have to look into that when the draw opens up!


----------



## Critter

What I would do if I was you is to go to each of the states that you might be thinking of putting in for web site and start looking through it. Colorado's draw begins in February and when you think of it it is not that far away when you might have questions.


----------



## Nambaster

Idaho has a lot of good over the counter tags. There are 365 bulls up there that can be harvested on their general units which are kind of like our under subscribed hunts. The good thing about Idaho is if you come across a monster bear or a huge mountain lion you can put your deer or elk tag on the lion or bear. 

Seriously I am pretty tempted to just move to Idaho and buy a sportsmans package every year. I sure wish Utah had something similar to Idahos sportsmans package.


----------



## elkaddict11

Thanks for all the pointers! It is greatly appreciated! The next question I have is what is the best way of finding a good unit out of state to hunt? I know eventually I will have to drive up and scout the area, but is there a cheaper way to narrow the areas down? Ive recently subscribed to eastmans hunting journal and enjoy reading their MRS articles in the back. Is that the best way or are there some websited I could go to and do my own research?


----------



## RoosterKiller

elkaddict11 said:


> Is it true that in Wyoming if you don't draw your first choice you still get to keep your points?


I don't know. It could be. It's that way in other states. You need to visit the States Wildlife web sites to find these answers. Research is your friend when trying to put together an out of state hunt.

Also why are you wanting to hunt out of state when there is so much opportunity in Utah?


----------



## osageorange

Applying and Hunting Out of State Under Present Conditions

Let's start by saying I don't like hunting with outfitters or guides. Not because I resent paying the money or resent them making money by guiding and outfitting. Nor do I dislike nor resent other guys that hire the professional's. I don't like hunting with outfitter/guides because I don't like being under their control. I hate being told when to start, stop, go left or go right. It's just not comfortable for me to be under somebody else's thumb. However...........................

Everybody's hunting expectations and experiences are different. We all want different things out of the money we spend. Consider the money opinions and out of State hunting.

Consider what kind of guy you are. If you just want an adventure, and the harvesting of a trophy animal isn't what's important to you, you can hunt out of State for a few hundred dollars more pre year than just hunting in your home State. 

Applying for an easy to draw tag in Colorado or Wyoming is only $250/300. Apply for an easy to draw unit that offers a large number of tags meaning it's mostly going to produce younger animals and there will more hunter's present during the hunt. But hey, it's out of State and if you wanted the adventure more than the trophy animal, and you can draw almost every year. But if this is the kind of hunt your interested in, why not apply for a Manti, Wasatch, Beaver, Uinta, Boulder, or Fish Lake tag here at home and have the same experience. Staying home is cheaper travel, cheaper tag, just as rugged, just as "unusual" as an unit in Colorado, unless you've already hunted and are knowledgeable with every corner of the State. 

If you're thinking you'd like to hunt out of State, not just to see and hunt new, unknown country, but you are thinking there are more trophy animals in some areas, in other States, and there are not enough trophy animals in Utah, it's going to take more time and therefore more money and most often, more time and more money.

There are a number of way's to hunt trophy animals out of State, all are expensive, unless your just plan lucky. You could get lucky and put in for an Idaho trophy managed unit where few tags are issued with a higher percentage of trophy animals are on the unit, and then get lucky again and scout out an older animal and bang, your got it done. Most guys aren't that lucky, they either don't draw the tag for a number of years and at $150 to $200 a year, it adds up. Say $2000 every 10 years and if your doing it in two States, say (Idaho and New Mexico) it's $4000 every ten years and $6000 (Id, NM and Nevada) if you apply in three States every year. These are States that hold random draws so you never build any points. It's possible to go ten years and never draw a tag and have no points to show for it and your out well over $6000 and never been on an out of State hunt.

Or, you could go another way. Apply to States that build points. Say Colorado, about $40/$50 to apply, nobody get's lucky, the guy with the most points gets the best tag). You buy points until you have enough points to draw a unit with a higher percentage of trophy animals. This will take upwards of 12 to 15 years at today's point accumulation rates and it will take longer in the future, meaning if you start now by the time you accumulated enough points to draw a "good" trophy animal unit, it could be 15 to 20 years. That's about $1000 in application fees (at present rates). Now if you want to improve your chances can apply to additional State's each year and increase your yearly investment out to $700 to a $1000 without a lot of trouble. This not refundable dollars, like the particle refund Colorado gives back (they keep a portion) each time you apply. As these figures add up, your spending anywhere from $1000 to $3000 every three years, still, you get no guaranteed trophy hunt unless you apply for many many many years.

It's expensive, in the long run, and can be expensive in the short run. If you are only going to build points in one State, say Colorado, it's not that expensive at first but by the time you build enough points to actually draw a good tag, you will be invested it the application process many thousands of dollars.

But let's say, after three or four years, or even one year, you draw an out of State tag on a good trophy type unit. Maybe one like the Utah Paunsaugunt. How experienced and skilled are you at locating mature trophy deer on a unit that you've never hunted on before, maybe never even seen the unit before? Some guys are real good at going into completely unfamiliar territory, sight unseen and locating game, most of us are not. As a matter of fact the guys that can go into a new area, scout it out, figure it out and find a trophy animal don't need to leave their home State to do it, they can do it right here, and they do. If you're going out of State for trophy game, on your on, you need to ask yourself, "can I find trophy game here at home, on your own on, year after year", if the answer is yes, than you most likely can do it out of State as well. If you can't do it here, there is little chance you do it out of State. Might as well do the self-evaluation on the front end of the time and money investment.

If your like most of us, the answers is, no. We try but we aren't that skilled at locating trophy game, here at home or any where else. 

Your going to either get really lucky, or not, or your going to spend a lot of money, over a long period of time, then draw a tag and still come home without the trophy you were hoping for. Of course, the adventure will be rewarding, but is it the adventure or the trophy your after, you need to decide before you spend a lot of time and money because a simple hunting adventure is very cheap and can be had every year, without going out of State. Even an out of State adventure is cheap, if your aren't expecting a trophy hunt. Just buy the cheapest tag out there and throw in your tent and away you go, off to see new country. Like you could do on Boulder Mountain or the Uinta's here at home.

I already said, I don't like hunting with guides and outfitters. But..............after many years of playing the out of State application game, I've killed more trophy type animals here at home than I have for all the time and money I've spent applying and hunting out of State. Why. Because I won't hire a guide and I don't buy landowner tags, so even when I do draw, locating a trophy animal, even on a Paunsaugant type unit, I don't know the area and I'm not good enough at locating to get the job done on a one shot (one year) deal. Reputable guides and outfitters know their public land territory. Ranchers know their ranches. Landowners know where the game that lives on their property spends it's time and animals are not disperse throughout all terrian, private or public. Wild animals are concentrated, you'll find they aren't everywhere, but when you know where to look and how to get into their feeding/bedding areas, you have a chance, if you don't, your just hoping to get lucky.

Therefore, if you want adventure and don't care about trophy success, hunt in State, it's cheaper, you can go more often, and you can see new country every year. If you want a trophy, and you want to save time and money, buy an out of State landowner tag and hire a guide, as often as you can afford to, once a year, once ever three years or once ever ten years. Spend your time researching the best, most reputable, best trophy properties for the money and start making payments rather than applying to out of State draws. In the long run, you will be time, money and trophies ahead. Or you can do what I've done, wasted thousand of dollars, wasted day's and day's of fruitless wandering the back country of some new hunting unit I'd never been to before and never gone back to since. For all I've spent, in time and money, on out of State hunting, I've killed better animals here at home. (I've hunted without a outfitter or guide in Id, Co, Az, Ak, Nv, Wy, and Ut)

In other words, unless you are an unusually skilled hunter, or unusually lucky, and your determined to hunt out of State, buy out of State landowner/outfitter tags, pay a good professional, who know's where the game in his area is concentrated during the time of your hunt, to guide you. Put up with they way outfitters and guides lead you around by the nose and you'll be time, money and trophy animals ahead, in the short and the long run.

Or just enjoy what's available here at home.


----------



## elkaddict11

RoosterKiller said:


> I don't know. It could be. It's that way in other states. You need to visit the States Wildlife web sites to find these answers. Research is your friend when trying to put together an out of state hunt.
> 
> Also why are you wanting to hunt out of state when there is so much opportunity in Utah?


I finally drew my LE elk tag this year and have thoroughly enjoyed my 3 scouting trips so far. Finally seeing trophy quality animals that in a few months I'll have the opportunity to hunt! After this year I have the 5 year waiting period. The chances of drawing another LE elk tag in the state are very slim, while i am young enough to dive head first into the scouting and the hunt. I plan on putting in for LE deer, and moose, plus my general season hunts as well. I figured that if I was able to start applying in at least one other state that could give me 2 trophy quality elk or deer hunts in a 15-20 year span instead of one. 
I don't have anything against this state or the awesome opportunities it has given me so far and the ones yet to come. I just love hunting and getting to know new areas and having a reasonable chance at a the animal that I am chasing.


----------



## elkaddict11

Osageorange

Thanks for the reply! I have never thought of it that way! When I have thought about building points out of state I never thought about how much it would cost me in the long run. 
I definitely haven't hunted every corner of the state, not even close. But with how the draw is set up ( i'm not complaining just stating a fact) i would have to be extremely lucky to be able to hunt multiple LE units in this state.
Just out of curiosity has all the money you've over the years in out of state fees been worth it to you? Or if you could so it all over again would you have hired a guide or bought landowner tags?


----------



## goforbroke

I put in 6 different states and it is an expensive game. If you start and are going for a premium hunt, be prepared for 10 years if you are a bow hunter and 15 plus if you are a gun hunter. Arizona is license plus fees so over $200 a year. You are so far behind in points you will never draw a strip tag or a top tier elk tag in this life time. New Mexico is only $65 plus $15 app fee, but no preference points and only a chance at 6% of the tags. I drew my first new mexico tag this year after 9 years. Tag has cost over $2000! Idaho has best draw odds but have to buy a license and no preference points. 

There are a lot of fun hunts with low trophy potential that can be had within a year or two. but if you are looking for a great tag, get in line. I keep trying for a middle tier colorado deer unit and point creep makes it so I'm no closer now on that unit than I was 3 years ago.  I want to draw so we can start hunting a unit we can draw every other year but feel like I can't 'burn' my points.

Good luck. Plus one on the Wyoming antelope, but even that is getting crowded. A unit that we liked always had left over tags till last year and this year it took 2 points to draw!


----------



## elkaddict11

goforbroke said:


> I put in 6 different states and it is an expensive game. If you start and are going for a premium hunt, be prepared for 10 years if you are a bow hunter and 15 plus if you are a gun hunter. Arizona is license plus fees so over $200 a year. You are so far behind in points you will never draw a strip tag or a top tier elk tag in this life time. New Mexico is only $65 plus $15 app fee, but no preference points and only a chance at 6% of the tags. I drew my first new mexico tag this year after 9 years. Tag has cost over $2000! Idaho has best draw odds but have to buy a license and no preference points.
> 
> There are a lot of fun hunts with low trophy potential that can be had within a year or two. but if you are looking for a great tag, get in line. I keep trying for a middle tier colorado deer unit and point creep makes it so I'm no closer now on that unit than I was 3 years ago.  I want to draw so we can start hunting a unit we can draw every other year but feel like I can't 'burn' my points.
> 
> Good luck. Plus one on the Wyoming antelope, but even that is getting crowded. A unit that we liked always had left over tags till last year and this year it took 2 points to draw!


I am definitely not looking at any of the top tier hunts, I know the odds are not in my favor in any way. I am more curious about the middle tier hunts, something will take some time but isn't a far shot with the chance at an animal that I would put on the wall and an experience I will never forget.
Are those out there anymore? Hunts that would take a NR 5-10 years to draw. I know I wouldn't be chasing a world record game, I don't even care about making the "Book". Just a better chance at a respectable animal then what I get from a OTC open bull, or my general season deer tag. I know the chance is still there on those hunts, just looking for an extra hunt every 5 or so years with some better odds.

Once again I really appreciate all the input I am getting. It is great to hear everyone's opinions on this subject and it has given me much food for thought!!!


----------



## RoosterKiller

elkaddict11 said:


> I finally drew my LE elk tag this year and have thoroughly enjoyed my 3 scouting trips so far. Finally seeing trophy quality animals that in a few months I'll have the opportunity to hunt! After this year I have the 5 year waiting period. The chances of drawing another LE elk tag in the state are very slim, while i am young enough to dive head first into the scouting and the hunt. I plan on putting in for LE deer, and moose, plus my general season hunts as well. I figured that if I was able to start applying in at least one other state that could give me 2 trophy quality elk or deer hunts in a 15-20 year span instead of one.
> I don't have anything against this state or the awesome opportunities it has given me so far and the ones yet to come. I just love hunting and getting to know new areas and having a reasonable chance at a the animal that I am chasing.


I see. You are after bulls.In that case focus on learning an area that has otc tags. But you need to learn the area well. As an non-resident you will not have the time to go scouting as much as you need . When I go to a new area in another state I do a lot of research and then take at least two weeks for the hunt. I get there a couple of days before the hunt and scout for a starting place. If I am lucky I will score ,but more likely it will be on future trips. I am not particular if I hunt bull,spike,or cow. What I want is to hunt and have a reasonable chance of filling my tag. Utah has allowed me to hunt every year for elk. I look forward to this hunt and plan for it all year.
I wish you luck.


----------



## osageorange

elkaddict11,
You asked if all the time (vacation days I used) and the money I spent, (the licenses, the application fees, the pre-hunt scouting trips, fuel I purchased, extra gear, etc. etc.) was it worth it?

I'll explain. I think I am something like how you described yourself. I'm not a top tier trophy hunter, never killed a "Book" animal. I'm only interested in my personal definition of a good looking animal, generally four or five years old but younger if he's got enough character. Typically an animal a year or two older than what most guys harvest. (I'm not being critical of guys that kill younger deer, I'm just not interested. To each his own.)

Secondly, I've had all the outdoor experiences I need to have in my life. I've lived in the outdoors all my life, I've been lost, frozen, parched, wet, hungry, sun burned, stung, bit, kicked and cut and got the scars and crooked bones I can look at anytime I get lonesome for a outdoor nightmare. When I go hunting, I'm out there for one thing, to shoot a mature animal and I'm not interested so much in the pretty meadows, the silvery moon, the glittering night skies, shimmering streams or the ice on the pond. It's nice, but I can see that stuff any day, everyday, and I do, I'm out in it every day. It's fantastic and I love it but when I'm hunting, I'm not out there to see the pretties, I'm there to find an animal I want to harvest. (That's another thing I dislike about outfitter and guided hunts. When those guys tell me it's all out the experience, not the harvest, I want to puke. Their wrong, at least for me. I don't need a guide to provide me an outdoor experience. I have them just fine without a guide. I need a guide to take me where game is concentrated. That's what an outfitter/guide can do for me. Finding game I can't find because I haven't had the time to learn the area. That's all I need a guide for. I can glass, I can keep camp, I can cook, I can walk, I can shot and pack meat. Just get me in the concentration I can take it from there. The honey holes are the most important thing a hunter needs, the rest most of us can handle just fine. 

Were the points and the trips out of State worth it?

Never killed an animal in NM, ID, CO, AK, Iowa, killed bucks in AZ and NV but should have passed on both, they were 3 or 4 year old but after years of effort once in a while I just say to heck with and pull the trigger. On the last day of a seven day hunt I shot a young buck antelope in Wyoming, to help the rancher out a little. It tasted great. I like antelope meat, I'm still enjoying it. (It was one of those cheap hunts, I described in my earlier posts. I still have maximum point for antelope in Wyoming, even with max points, it will likely be at least another 5 to 6 years before I can draw a unit that has older bucks on it. 

I've killed better elk, deer, and antelope here in Utah, over the same period of time. Why? Does Utah have more mature animals, hardly, but I know the honey holes here. I don't in other States. I know where these animals live everyday, throughout the years, I know where they sleep, where they eat, where they breed and where they give birth. I don't have that depth of knowledge in other States. So when I drew those tags I was going in blind. I found game I could have killed but not the older stuff I was hunting for, and the older stuff was the only reason I went out of State. If I'd just wanted to hunt or kill something, I could have done that, easier and cheaper, at home.

I would not play the point again, with one exception. If Idaho, New Mexico, or Nevada ever start a point system, I would jump in the first year. If you wait a single year, your going to be hundreds or even thousand of dollars into the application process before you draw a better unit. If you get in the hopper the first year, you have a fair change of drawing a decent unit, early, before you spend a ton on the process.

I would do this, even though I dislike being guided, I would study the heck out of the best ranches (manage for older game), with an impeccable reputation for fairness and civility. I talk to no less than 50 different people that have hunted the property in the last five years. If your after elk and/or mule deer, I'd look in CO, NV, WY, AZ, maybe Montana, I'd look at the largest ranches, I look for ranches that are committed to game hunting as a necessary revenue source to be successful. I'd make sure the reference's I talked to had hunted there more than once. I'd make sure they didn't over harvest their game herds. I'd set my expectations and my budget on less than B&C sized animals but mature ones, none the less. I'd sift through as many operations as I could find, make the calls to past hunters, pick one and send them a down payment, large or small, just get them some money and get on their list. Send them money every time you have a little extra, especially every year, send them the amount you would have used for "high risk" or "long term"point States. If you think you'd like hunt CO or NV or AZ, figure up what those States would charge you to apply and send that money to your rancher/outfitter and sooner than you will draw a good tag in one of those State you will be on your way to hunt a ranch, with a proven outfitter, for a decent mature animal.

If I were starting out from where you are today, that is what I would do. But......that's just me, every one has there own point of view.


----------



## Packout

Try a Colorado or WY deer tag. You should be able to draw a decent unit in a couple years and see if you like the experience. Points will cost-per year- $30 for CO and $40 for WY. 

Personally, I find much excitement in scouting and hunting new areas. I guess I'm a hunting transient. I spent today scouting for my WY moose permit and my sons' deer tags. We saw some neat new areas and look forward to the adventure this Fall. (Do not buy into Wy's moose or sheep point)


----------



## osageorange

Packout is mostly right about drawing a tag in CO or WY, not so sure what a decent unit in these State means so far a mature deer is but based on my hunts in CO, their decent units are about the same as our general season Utah units. Mostly young deer, occasional older buck and rarely a mature buck (4 to 5 years old). Point being, you can have the same hunt here for less money. It's $30 for the point but $370 or so, if you draw the tag. Here it's somewhere around $60.

Again, I agree, it is neat to see new areas, if seeing new areas is more important than hunting for mature animals, and for a lot of people the experience, the trip, the smell, the taste of camp fire smoke, the dew on the grass, the sunrise, the black elk silhouette against a pink sunset sky is breathtaking and it's worth the time and money it takes to be part of it, but there is no need to wait for hunting season to experience those things. I understood you were more into the harvest size than you were the adventure. Personally, like I said, my adventures are happening all year long and has nothing to do with a hunting tag. (I'll be leaving home at 3:30 tomorrow morning, I'll arrive at a mountain lake 20 minutes before there is any day light. As the eastern sky begins to show some color, I'll be able to see the steam rising off the lake, the loons will be calling, mule deer will be watering on the southern shore. To the west a herd of bull elk will be feeding their way from the lake shore toward the thick black pines above the lake. If I listen carefully, I will be able to hear the faint meowing of calf elk in the quaking aspens behind me. If you haven't been in every corner of Utah, there are neat new areas here as well. Trout will be rising sporactically, taking surfacing insects that are preparing the leave the surface of the lake. Tomorrow, it will smell like dust, there's been no rain for over a month. Another time, it will smell like rain washed sage and fresh grass. Wild flowers will be thick tomorrow because at this elevation, it's barely stopped freezing at night. Mule deer fawns are about two weeks old and mostly still hid up but a few (those that were born the first week of June) might make a dash for cover as we start down the road that goes by the lake. It will be July 1, 45 days from the first hunt on this mountain. Why do I need a gun, I'll take a camera and an old friend, with a sack of jerky and a Pepsi on ice. It will be an adventure, I promise. Why do you need a tag to experience the great outdoors. (When I have a tag, I'm focus on killing something, I can enjoy the experience the entire rest of the year. If the only time of year you can enjoy the stunning beauty of the outdoors is during hunting season then the hunting season is more about the experience than the hunt, and your a different kind of hunter than I am. Many are, the only time many guys get out in the country is during the hunt, so being out there is more important than killing an animal. Sad, their missing some much of the wonders of nature. But, again, if it's adventure your after, it's as readily available on the Boulder or the Beaver. It's cheaper and just as likely to produce the same kind of deer you'll find on a unit you can draw in a couple of years in CO. I suspect WY is similar, I haven't hunted deer there often enough to say for sure.

Again, to your question on building points for an out of State hunt, if you just want to transient hunt and need it to be out of State you can do it fairly cheap, fairly often, see new places, have some adventures, as Packout has explained and maybe even get lucky. But not as cheap or as often as you can here at home. If you want a more sure thing than building points, and your stuck on hunting mature animals, hold your nose, gag a little, do your research, pick a ranch/outfitter, lock in your rate, and start making your payments. You'll spend less, and harvest older animals, on average than you will working the point/draw systems in the west. 

Figure, you can't apply for an Limited Entry elk for five years. Then, unless your very lucky and draw a random tag (some do, every year) how many years of applying in Utah will you need before you'll be at the top of Limited Entry again, 8 to 10 or more. Your likely 15 to 20 years out on another LE elk hunt, in Utah. If you set aside $400 a year for a private ranch hunt, and lock in a rate this year, you can be hunting another mature bull within 8 to 10 years. At the same time you can still hunt elk any where you want in Utah. Do you have any idea how many Texan's would give their right arm to kill a spike bull or a cow elk once every 5 years, let alone every year. Take a trip to CO this fall and drive through those hundreds of hunting camps over there on those Forest Service roads and ask those Texans, "when was the last time you killed an elk in CO, any elk, cow, calf or bull. Scare the wits out of you! They'll start telling you about the time, 12 years ago, when a guy from their camp killed a 4 point bull, course they've never killed one personally. (Is a rag horn bull any more of a trophy than a spike or a cow? Not for me. It's just a good piece of meat, nothing more, nothing less. Don't tell them what's going on over in Utah, so far as elk and deer meat hunts are concerned, it will ruin the California odds if the Texans find out what they could be hunting, if they drove another 4 hours west.)


----------



## elkaddict11

Packout, is there a state that you would suggest putting in for a sheep tag? I am currently putting in for moose in Utah, and know my odds of getting the chance to hunt 2 OIL in this state is slim to none. Weighing heavy on the none side.
Osageorange, I have never looked into guided or landowner hunts. Do you have a ballpark estimatr on what an elk or deer hunt could cost? I'm like you and tend to turn my nose at guide's because, like you, I like to feel in control of my own hunt, and am not looking for a pampered 5 star experience. But you have opened my eyes to how much time/money could be saved in the long run. Definitely something I will be looking into!


----------



## osageorange

elkaddict, I haven't checked prices recently but a quick internet search for "free ranging Colorado elk hunting ranch" should give you a place to start. I'd guess they start at around $3,500.00 and go up from there. Some of the better outfits don't have web sites and don't advertise because their clientele are all word of mouth customers. Call Feed and Fertilizer Stores in rural towns, (also rural bulk fuel distributors) give rural Veterinarian Doctors a call, check with rural Taxidermists, call Fish and Game Conservations Officers (Game Wardens), check with County Agriculture Agents, look up Cattle and Sheep Livestock Association Presidents, these people all work with these ranchers and they know who's doing elk hunts as a business and who's not. Average harvest size of the elk, your weapon of choice, 2x1 or 1x1 guide service, kind of camp set up, will all enter into the price you'll end up paying. The more you want from the operator, the more you'll be asked to pay. Other States, besides Colorado have free range ranch elk hunts as well. Check Nevada and New Mex. as well. Maybe others. Montana would. Just be sure and check to make sure they are free range operations, not all of them are really forthright about that's on there internet web sites. 

Good luck and good hunting.


----------



## GaryFish

Lots of talk about Idaho and Colorado.

I'll chime in on Montana. Montana has a draw for non-residents, but it is under-subscribed and has been for the past 3 years since they raised the non-resident prices.

You can buy a "Sportsman Package" for $976 that gives you a deer, elk, upland, and fishing. A deer+upland+fishing combo is $580. You can buy it over the internet. 

Most of the state is general open for both mule and whitetail deer. Your deer tag is either sex, either species, and valid for the entire state, except a couple of small areas in SW Montana. The season is 6 weeks long, and spans the deer rut in November. So waiting until then, the deer get really silly. Depending on the year and how the herds are doing, you can buy up to six additional doe tags - some draw, some OTC, all unit or region specific, and they go for $75/each. My last trip, I picked up 3 extra doe tags so the venison take home was more worth the gas money. The deer, both whitetail and muleys got hit REALLY hard last winter by cold and disease, so very few doe tags were issued this year. But other years it's crazy fun. 

I can point you to some good public lands areas outside of Great Falls to hunt, on the Lewis and Clark National Forest. They are all transition zone kind of lands, transitioning from valley to foothills, with both mule deer and whitetail deer in the areas. And, the area is currently over objective for elk. And speaking of elk, an additional cow elk tag can be had for $273 through draw or OTC if there are enough tags for the unit. 

Thing with hunting Montana is that for me (I'm not a trophy chaser), it ruined hunting in Utah. The long seasons, more game, fewer hunters all combine for me to something I simply cannot get in Utah unless I convert to archery. I'd rather hunt Montana once every four years, than Utah every year. And so that is what I do. I can drive six hours to Colorado, or 5 hours to where I grew up in Idaho and hunt. But I'd rather drive an extra 2-3 hours to Montana because it is THAT much better. 

I also like it because of the pheasant hunting. Central Montana is some of the best pheasant hunting I've ever experienced, and I lived a few years in Nebraska! So I've always mixed my deer hunting adventures with at least a day of pheasants as a bonus. Or, like on my last trip, I'd hunt deer in the morning, come back to camp for breakfast, then hunt pheasants late morning, eat lunch, short nap or fishing in the afternoon, and then shoot a deer in the evening - all on foot from camp - without even starting up the truck. I did a trip in '07 - 5 days - one day travel on each end, and three days of hunting/fishing. Caught fish, shot a deer, and a pheasant each of the three hunting days. It was a very good trip.


----------



## GaryFish

On the Montana thing - I have not hunted elk there, just deer. And every single day of deer hunting I've every done in Montana, including the years I lived there, I have seen at least a dozen 4x4 or better mule deer bucks. I doubt any would reach 200 inches. As we would say, 22" mule deer are a dime a dozen up there. Bucks wider than 26" are VERY rare however. I've only seen one that would push book sized - about 15 minutes after I tagged a nice 22" 4x4. Urrrggggg. 

I hunted "blind" in some areas (no prior scouting) and found deer. I hunted private lands with the rancher on a couple of occasions, and he took me to deer. I hunted blind on private lands with prior permission, and found deer based on my desktop scouting. Deer are plentiful up there. And the tag can be had every year without a draw. There are bigger and better trophies on Utah's premiere units, but you can apply for those once in a lifetime kind of tags as a resident, while you hunt solid, mature bucks every year in Montana. Something to think about.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

A lot of it really depends on what you feel most comfortable I guess. Gary says Montana but I would rather hunt Wyoming and Colorado. I am more familiar with both of them. Wyoming is great all around IMO and has some excellent hunting opportunities, deer, elk and antelope and the draw process is pretty straight forward and the laws regarding archery hunting are pretty liberal. 

The biggest deer I have ever seen in my life are in Colorado and I have seen a ton. There is also some great elk areas. If I am hunting bear I will take Idaho over all them due to the laws and the opportunity. Montana has a lot of great spots as well but I am really only familiar with the Bitteroot area and the areas that border Yellowstone to the North.

We put in for all of the states that border Utah. If I were to put in for only one other state though it would be Wyoming. In years that your pocket book is tight or you have other fish to fry you can opt to just purchase a preference point.


----------



## GaryFish

And I'd agree with Mr. Muleskinner, or point out to you, many of us have our favorite "other states" and they are favorites for a variety of reasons. And all of that is good. I can't speak to hunting in Wyoming or Colorado, as I've never hunted either. But good times can be had.

But that is part of the fun in hunting other states - the adventure of it all. I do Montana because I lived there for a while, found some honey holes, and love to go back. I grew up hunting in some amazing places in central Idaho, but the wolves have completely redefined the hunting I grew up knowing. I rifle hunt, and the 3-day Utah experience I've found to be something different than what I want to get out of hunting, so I just don't do it any more. This month, I'm moving to Arizona, but am so far behind the curve with points, I'm not going to bother with it. Montana is so good to me, and my wife and I have it worked out for me to make the trip the week of Thanksgiving every other year while she visits her family in Utah, so I'm good with that. 

The take away for me, is there are some really fun hunting opportunities in Utah, and in most of the Mountain West if you choose to make it fit with your expectations. A good time can be had in many places - it's all up to you.


----------



## elkaddict11

Garyfish, thanks for the insight on Montana! I love that state but for some reason I've never put much thought into hunting it. Just out of curiousity do they have some sort of LE process along with the OTC option?

Muleskinner, Wyoming has always caught my eye and that is the state I've been putting the most thought into before I posted my question on this sight. I do have a question about Wyoming that hopefully you can answer.... Earlier in this thread Packout mentioned not to put in for Wyoming Sheep. I was wondrering if you knew why he would suggest that? I had been thinking of buying an elk and a sheep point in wyoming this next year to start building points. Ive been bitten by the big horn sheep bug, and know that since I've been putting in for moose here in Utah my chances of even getting the opportunity to apply for sheep here is non existent. Is it because I'm so far behind in the points race that it will never happen?


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

that would be enough in of itself to keep me from putting in for sheep there. I believe there are about 50 NR sheep tags in Wyoming. Only 8 which are random tags that go to those that don't have the maximum points. As of last year it took 14 points in the worst of units to draw a tag. The good units you are looking at 16 points or better.

Here is a publication on sheep applications. If I were after sheep I would put in for Idaho buy the nonresident hunting license and hunt spring or fall bear there once a year to justify the hunting license.

http://www.wildsheepfoundation.org/SHOAB.pdf

To be honest though.......get a camera and shoot them with that, then buy Aoudad tag somewhere for about the same price and go hike your guts out if you want. At least that is a guaranteed hunt. There are plenty of free range hunts them and I believe you can hunt them year round.


----------



## Critter

I have figured that if you really want to do a moose, sheep, or a rocky mountain goat hunt to just save you money and go to a location that you can get them over the counter. The sad thing there is that you will also have to hire a guide in the majority of places that have OTC tags for them.


----------



## elkaddict11

Critter said:


> I have figured that if you really want to do a moose, sheep, or a rocky mountain goat hunt to just save you money and go to a location that you can get them over the counter. The sad thing there is that you will also have to hire a guide in the majority of places that have OTC tags for them.


What places can you buy an OTC moose, sheep or goat tag? Me being the naive individual I am thought that besides maybe Alaska those tags were a draw only tag.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Alaska is one, at least for moose. You can also pay a "hunt planner" that does a ton of the work for you. I have a few friends that did it that all harvest big moose. British Columbia is the place for goat hunting. Giant black bear in BC as well.


----------



## elkaddict11

Looks like I need to go in and hit the boss up for a raise so I can afford to get my hunting fix in!!! 
Thanks again for all the information! It is greatly appreciated! It has definitely answered a lot of questions and pointed me in the right direction to take my hunting to the next level!


----------



## Critter

elkaddict11 said:


> Looks like I need to go in and hit the boss up for a raise so I can afford to get my hunting fix in!!!
> Thanks again for all the information! It is greatly appreciated! It has definitely answered a lot of questions and pointed me in the right direction to take my hunting to the next level!


It took me 30 years of saving before I could afford the hunts that I want to go on. Now I have bad knees and can't breath as good as I should and take more pills in a month than I did in my life, but I am still planning on a couple of them. I have a outfitter in BC that does goat hunts after you ride a horse 23 miles back into a wilderness area. I did a grizzly hunt with him a couple of years ago but struck out on that bear but did get a black bear.


----------



## GaryFish

There are a few LE units in Montana. But remember the main reason for an LE hunt is because there is more hunting demand than the resource can handle, so the resource has to be rationed. Montana has more resource than the hunting can handle, so most areas are just over the counter. The Missouri River Breaks is a premium unit for elk. It also has world class sheep hunting. Other LE game such as goats and moose are draw only. They have never been a hunting interest to me, so I've never taken the time to learn about the tag draw process, so I'm not much help. All the info is on-line though. I do know the Missouri River Breaks is the most sought after unit in the state for Elk.


----------



## Packout

You are too far behind in WY to catch up to the sheep or moose tag- at least you'll be too old to climb the mtns. Today the tag fee is around $2000 + $100 preference point every year-- the cost is bound to go up in the next few years. Currently, WY gives 20% of the ltd tags to non-residents. Look for that to change down to 10% in the next few years (possibly next year) for sheep and moose. With the lower tag numbers, you may never catch up.

For sheep your options are ID and CO. ID will charge you the hunting license just to apply and there are no points-- it is all random. As was said before, you can apply there and then buy a deer or bear tag to justify the hunting license fee. CO is good because you must apply for 3 years before you are eligible to be in the actual draw. After 3 years you receive a point, but that is just another chance in the draw-- anyone who applies after their 3rd application has a chance to draw. CO application cost is much lower.


----------



## fletcher

*out of state tags*

Buy points for Elk, Antelope, and Deer in Wyoming now. In a year or two you'll be able to hunt elk and deer. You can apply for antelope in January and hunt next fall if you pick the right unit. If you have a credit card buy elk and deer points in Colorado next spring. You have to pay everything up front but you'll get it back in June, and you can hunt otc elk while you build points. New Mexico is a lottery and there are not many NR tags available, I've applied for 5 years and have not drawn yet. Tags in NM are ~$500-$750, and you have to buy a license, but you will get the tag fee and license fee back if you do not draw. Montana is pretty easy to draw but NR tags are the very expensive. AZ and NV have awesome animals but you have to buy a license every year, apply every year, and wait 5-15 years to get an elk tag, deer are much easier to draw. I apply or buy points in AZ, CO, NM, UT, and WY every year. It takes a while to draw the tags I want but in a year or two I can probably hunt elk in a different state every year. The trick is to apply for the units that do not require max points. Get started now, no ever said they should not have hunted so much.


----------



## Critter

Colorado no longer sends you all your money back if you want a PP unless you have purchased a license in the last year. I believe that it is $40.00 for each animal you put in for that they keep + the $3.00 application fee if you want a point.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Critter said:


> Colorado no longer sends you all your money back if you want a PP unless you have purchased a license in the last year. I believe that it is $40.00 for each animal you put in for that they keep + the $3.00 application fee if you want a point.


I think that is correct as well.


----------

