# Two pole ticket



## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

I read this in KSL want adds. Thought it was interesting although a bit long. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=3660759&cat=272&lpid=


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Geez thats crazy!!! I think the 15 dollar extra pole permit would be better in the long run but totally understand why he was SO pissed.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

They do it. Had a officer give me a ticket on my one man pontoon for no personal floatation device on board. I asked what about float tubes and he said there were two different bladers so one was not needed. DUH, what is a pontoon???? Went to court and plead no contest, but if I had the time I would of fought it to the end also.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Hogan, you would've lost. A PFD is required ON BOARD any vessel for all occupants. That means a float tube and a pontoon, too. Sounds like the cop needed a better understanding of that law, too. 

You don't have to wear it, but it must be on board and accessible.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Yup! It's the law.
Also, a lot of guys forget about this one too: You buy a bigger pontoon or float tube and decide to mount an electric motor to it. NOW you need to register it or you'll get a ticket. Crazy huh?


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

hey i clicked on the link, and it said "ad not found" what was the story about?


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Dang thats funny they erased it. Basically ther were four people fishing in a boat and four rods. One of the guys was helping the others and a fish cop ticketed him for "using two poles" He fought it in court and won. Because everyone on board had licenses and there were not 5 rods.


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## Gameface (Jun 7, 2008)

You know, I try to follow the rules and regulations regarding fishing as best I can. I'm fully aware that in most cases it would be pretty hard to get caught if I decided to ignore the law, but I understand the reasons for most of the laws and feel like fishing is better for everyone if we all try to play by the rules. 

I would hope that the people enforcing the laws would use a little common sense and fair judgement. If they go around trying to nail people for every little technicality they find it really distracts from the bigger picture and reduces people's willingness to voluntarily cooperate.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

good point gameface. How many of you have seen the fish cops using spotting scopes checking out boats and shore fisherman. I see it almost everytime. what happened to protect and serve, not her"ass" and find dwr income. you thinking with declining numbers of young people getting into fishing they would be alittle more friendly to poeple. :roll:


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> good point gameface. How many of you have seen the fish cops using spotting scopes checking out boats and shore fisherman. I see it almost everytime. what happened to protect and serve, not her"ass" and find dwr income. you thinking with declining numbers of young people getting into fishing they would be alittle more friendly to poeple. :roll:


Other than it BEING THEIR JOB! I can't believe the problems they cause for people who are breaking the law!!!!! Her"ass" amd find DWR money? So that's what they are doing? That's good to know because again I THOUGHT IT WAS THEIR JOB! I will admitt some do need to be educated on things but that's ok.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

please define THEIR JOB for me. her"ass"ing someone in a boat helping with poles and trying to ticket them for two poles. what I trying to say is, they try to be deceitful and sneeky. I was on the gorge fishing and two guys come up in a boat and asked hows the fishing. we said that we had got a couple. they were in plain colthes and in a yellow fiberglass boat with some age to it. as soon as we said a couple they pulled out badges. what happened to just declairing who you are and ASK!. another time on the gorge I watched them glassing a boat, and when the boat came in, the dwr had a fleet of uhp cops ran sacking their boat. they went beyond their job despription for other purposes. this officer has been in the paper before, and from what i have herd, that he has been transfered to strawberry district. Ice fishing two years ago, we were approched by two guys. they seen our fish on the snow, they declared who they were. asked for my fishing licence. as i turned around and down to dig it out. the officer pulled out a tape measured my fish, whipped it back in his pocket, all before i got back to him. I didn't find out until they left and my buddy told me what he had done. "DECEITFUL" come on i would of loved to measure it with him. chew the fat, swap stories. "I just to get it" I know bad apples ruin the bushell, but in turn they turn good poeple against them.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> *please define THEIR JOB for me.*
> 
> 
> > *her"ass"ing someone in a boat helping with poles and trying to ticket them for two poles. [/b*
> ...


*

As long as their within the scope of the law they can and must do anything in their power to apprehend, cite, arrest and book into Jail if needed anyone who is violating the law!

Now, I agree that there are some people in every profession that are not ethical and don't obey the law and or policies and procedures that they are supposed to be following, all we can do as citizens is hope that those people are dealt with accordingly and are turned in every step of the way.

Allthough I don't know the specifics about the incident with the two pole permit and can only go off of what you all are saying, I would agree that it was an officer that was trying to push the envelope and thankfully the judge threw it out and didn't allow the citation to stick.*


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> please define THEIR JOB for me. her"ass"ing someone in a boat helping with poles and trying to ticket them for two poles. *what I trying to say is, they try to be deceitful and sneeky. I was on the gorge fishing and two guys come up in a boat and asked hows the fishing. we said that we had got a couple. they were in plain colthes and in a yellow fiberglass boat with some age to it. as soon as we said a couple they pulled out badges. what happened to just declairing who you are and ASK!. another time on the gorge I watched them glassing a boat, and when the boat came in, the dwr had a fleet of uhp cops ran sacking their boat. they went beyond their job despription for other purposes. this officer has been in the paper before, and from what i have herd, that he has been transfered to strawberry district. Ice fishing two years ago, we were approched by two guys. they seen our fish on the snow, they declared who they were. asked for my fishing licence. as i turned around and down to dig it out. the officer pulled out a tape measured my fish, whipped it back in his pocket, all before i got back to him. I didn't find out until they left and my buddy told me what he had done. "DECEITFUL" come on i would of loved to measure it with him. chew the fat, swap stories. "I just to get it" I know bad apples ruin the bushell, but in turn they turn good poeple against them.*


Again just because we as individuals believe that they shouldn't be sneaky about something or deceitful as you call it, does that mean that they are not justified to do what they are doing? That is subject to iterpretation in my opinion.

If there was a boat search going on and DWR and UHP everywhere doing the search or ran sacking a boat I would be willing to bet that with that big of a disturbance the officers had PROBABLE CAUSE to search that vehicle which was (just a guess)obtained when they were glassing the boat as you said. Although peoples rights are violated at time(which is dispicable) I find it hard to believe that they decided to go and violate the peoples rights who were in the boat. Have you ever thought that maybe there was a specific reason they were doing what they did, rather than automatically running to the side of the accused without knowing the facts? Without knowing the facts, how do you know they went beyond their job description for other purposes?

Now if this officer is well known for crossing the line and is unethical and has not been dealt with, or he was transfered to the Strawberry district as a way of dealing with him then i'm sure some of us will have a run in with him. Only then will we be able to decide for ourselves if this officer is operating in a manor that he should not be. This is a good reason why everyone of us better be up to date on the laws and proclamations! If you are issued a citation when you know you are in the right, have explained yourself, and even shown the officer the regs prooving your right, just sign the ticket and go see the judge and explain yourself then. I will admitt that's the political response for me to say, however, if that happened to be me and I was being cited for something that was truly BS there would be serious problems and I would go through the proper chanels of reporting this officer to his boss. I also have a hard time believing that this officer has done all these things that you speak of and nothing is being done about it, the state is usually good at addressing these issues.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

UintaMan said:


> BROWN BAGGER said:
> 
> 
> > *please define THEIR JOB for me.*
> ...


*

I see what you are saying Uintaman, and understand why you feel the way you do, but I think what these guys are requesting is a higher ethic. The golden rule. Sure they are within the scope of the law, but when people get shaken down for no good reason, it makes them dislike authority. And what happened to being "innocent until proven guilty"? Like BB said, he'd have no problem getting checked if the guys just approached, identified themselves as law enforcement, asked to check their catch, and then politely chatted for a few minutes. The problem that I see in the CO's in many of these stories is an assumption that the general public is doing something wrong. Its not like people can just hide their catch after the cops have seen it. Who cares if they are in plain clothes, just ID yourself, show the badge, and be friendly to the people until you find a violation. If a violation is present, then get stern and act the part, but don't just assume all are breaking the law! It makes good intentioned, law abiding folks have reason to disrespect the law.*


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## skeet4l (Sep 11, 2007)

Here's one for you, I was on the Gorge (wy) ice fishing this past year with a buddy and his two kids. We were probably 100 yds apart fishing with multiple poles and licenses (legally-kinda) I had brought the labels to identify our poles per the proc and my buddy said he had a marker. To make a long story short he forgot the marker, I was written a warning and he was let off. Go figure.... I'd like to have seen some consistency in his actions especially after I explained that we were together and what had happened.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Several years ago, I spent the 4th of July on boat patrol with the park manager at one of the Wasatch Front area lakes. This guy had it right. We pulled over probably 30-40 boats with the patrol boat. In all that, he didn't issue a single written warning or ticket. We would pull the boat over, let them know what they were doing wrong, teach them the reason for the law, and let them know if they did it again, they would get slammed. But go out, have a good and safe time on the water. It worked very well. I remember one boat didn't have enough life jackets for all the people on board. He handed them a spare horse-shoe jacket off the patrol boat, and told them to head in, let a couple of people off the boat, leave the extra on the dock, and have fun - but of all things - never fudge on that rule and boat safely.

His main goal was safety on the lake, and the most effective way to make that happen. He took great pride in no boating accidents that summer on his lake. And he did it without writing a bunch of tickets. I learned a lot that day.

And for what its worth, when a CO or Parkie writes you a ticket, most of the fine money goes to the county where the ticket is written - not the law enforcement agency. Violation tickets are not money makers by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

I was glad to see this guy take it to court and have it turn out in his favor. In my opinion it shouldn't have had to go that far.

Generally my interactions with wildlife officers have been positive. Many of those times they were "incognito" but professional and friendly. I used to accompany an officer in Southern Utah during some of his "road site inspections" and saw the gamut of hunters from law-abiding to "snakey any excuse is better than the truth". His actions were always professional and he was always willing to listen and was fair.

My latest interaction with two wildlife enforcement officers was a couple years ago in our deer camp. They were incognito and in my opinion very unprofessional, looking for anything they could write a ticket for. They seemed to have an authority complex. It reminded me of some of the less scrupulous hunters I had seen earlier. When I mentioned their behavior to my old friend he told me it's not the same as in the old days (What is?). He is saddened to see the way things are going with the DWR but said that is the way it is. Without some guidance from the top, things will not change. There are going to be good and bad personnel but in my view the bad seems to be increasing.

Maybe it's just the world we live in today.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

Chaser,

I can respect that, I have not been on the receiving end of a CO's rath. I guess I want to believe that this doesn't happen as often to people as they claim. I don't have a lot of dealing with CO's, they can't really be that bad can they? I can't bring myself to understand why they would still have a job if nonsense like what they say goes on really goes on. I may just be biased and choose not to believe its that bad.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

skeet4l said:


> Here's one for you, I was on the Gorge (wy) ice fishing this past year with a buddy and his two kids. We were probably 100 yds apart fishing with multiple poles and licenses (legally-kinda) I had brought the labels to identify our poles per the proc and my buddy said he had a marker. To make a long story short he forgot the marker, I was written a warning and he was let off. Go figure.... I'd like to have seen some consistency in his actions especially after I explained that we were together and what had happened.


Sorry that kind of makes me lauph, did you piss him off or something!


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Several years ago, I spent the 4th of July on boat patrol with the park manager at one of the Wasatch Front area lakes. This guy had it right. We pulled over probably 30-40 boats with the patrol boat. In all that, he didn't issue a single written warning or ticket. We would pull the boat over, let them know what they were doing wrong, teach them the reason for the law, and let them know if they did it again, they would get slammed. But go out, have a good and safe time on the water. It worked very well. I remember one boat didn't have enough life jackets for all the people on board. He handed them a spare horse-shoe jacket off the patrol boat, and told them to head in, let a couple of people off the boat, leave the extra on the dock, and have fun - but of all things - never fudge on that rule and boat safely.
> 
> His main goal was safety on the lake, and the most effective way to make that happen. He took great pride in no boating accidents that summer on his lake. And he did it without writing a bunch of tickets. I learned a lot that day.
> 
> ...


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> what happened to protect and serve, not her"ass" and find dwr income. you thinking with declining numbers of young people getting into fishing they would be alittle more friendly to poeple. :roll:


What a screwed up statement.

No wonder LEO's get testy sometimes, eh?


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## 357bob (Sep 30, 2007)

Any body ever complain about the slot at Strawberry being broken? I've herd it alot "we were at the cleaning station and there were these guys...". Now, same guys at the cleaning station see a uniformed officer walking up and where do the fish go? down the shoot. I'm all for catch 'em unsuspecting, helps keep more people honest not knowing when they are being watched.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

357bob said:


> Any body ever complain about the slot at Strawberry being broken? I've herd it alot "we were at the cleaning station and there were these guys...". Now, same guys at the cleaning station see a uniformed officer walking up and where do the fish go? down the shoot. *I'm all for catch 'em unsuspecting, helps keep more people honest not knowing when they are being watched*.


That's exactly my point! Then those same people that are breaking the law cry foul because they were caught, they have to blame someone and it sure as hell aint going to be themselves. Their the same peope that used to claim intrapment when an officer in a patrol unit was hiding, claiming "the patrol car must be visible or the ticket is not valid" give me a freaking break! :roll: You bring up a great point about the berry and fish being taken that are in the slot. From my experience up there I have seen extremely limited enforcement in any form or fassion. Now I'm not up there a lot during the weekends so maybe that's when they inforce it more heavily.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> BROWN BAGGER said:
> 
> 
> > what happened to protect and serve, not her"ass" and find dwr income. you thinking with declining numbers of young people getting into fishing they would be alittle more friendly to poeple. :roll:
> ...


may carma find you


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## Pavlik (Sep 11, 2007)

Now, there are some laws in this state that are out of hand. I disagree with having to register small boats. I just got a bill in the mail for the registration of my canoe. It was $37!!! Thats $10 more than last year due to some "uniform fee". They would smack any fee on just to make money without justification. I am saying screw it, and am simply not renewing the registration. I think that it is rediculous to register a little 3 hp outboard. Are we going to have to register our lawn mowers and weed eaters next as well??? those have bigger engines in them! For $37 I can fuel my boat for 3 years!


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## FC2Tuber (Oct 26, 2007)

On the flip side, I have had some good experiences with CO's. About 5 years ago I was flyfishing in Northern utah and slaying them on PMD's. I was fishing in a long pool, and picking off risers all over the river when I heard something behind me. It was a CO, and he was trying to sneak quietly so that he didn't scare the fish. I walked over to him, and he did the usual license check and we BS'd for a minute. Very nice guy. He asked if I minded that he watched for a minute because he had never flyfished before. I told him that this would be a great time for him to catch his 1st fish. I gave him a quick tutorial on how to make a basic cast and how to mend and handed him the rod. His 2nd cast he caught a 16" brown. He was very excited and appreciative.


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## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

FC2Tuber said:


> On the flip side, I have had some good experiences with CO's. About 5 years ago I was flyfishing in Northern utah and slaying them on PMD's. I was fishing in a long pool, and picking off risers all over the river when I heard something behind me. It was a CO, and he was trying to sneak quietly so that he didn't scare the fish. I walked over to him, and he did the usual license check and we BS'd for a minute. Very nice guy. He asked if I minded that he watched for a minute because he had never flyfished before. I told him that this would be a great time for him to catch his 1st fish. I gave him a quick tutorial on how to make a basic cast and how to mend and handed him the rod. His 2nd cast he caught a 16" brown. He was very excited and appreciative.


I wonder if he had a license! :mrgreen:


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## carlswa2 (May 28, 2008)

Never even been checked by a CO, but I'll bet the 1st time I "forget" my license legit or otherwise, that will be the day I run into one......


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