# article about SFW/BGF



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Recently there has been an onslaught of misleading information brought forth by the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and their sister organization, Big Game Forever. The Montana chapter of this Utah-based organization seems to be taking marching orders from Utah. They are here in Montana, endorsing and supporting legislative candidates to carry their radical positions.
> 
> First, a little history. We have a wolf season in Montana due to the Simpson-Tester rider that was approved by Congress last year. Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife tried to kill that legislation in Washington, D.C. It went so far as to issue a news release blatantly misrepresenting that the National Rifle Association, Safari Club International and the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation also opposed the Simpson-Tester rider, when in fact NRA, et al., supported the Simpson-Tester rider. About as low down and underhanded as it gets, but no surprise from the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.
> 
> Subsequent to the group lying about the NRA position, the NRA issued a news release that gives the best advice you can find related to anything presented by the sportsman group. I quote from that release: "Congressional offices and members of the media should exercise caution in accepting as fact, or repeating, any claims made by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Big Game Forever or any person claiming to represent them. Due to the blatant misrepresentation contained in the press release circulated by these two groups, any claims they make in the future should be thoroughly investigated and independently confirmed." The complete press release can be viewed at www.montanasportsmenalliance.com. I encourage all voters to follow the advice of the NRA and not accept anything from the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife as fact.


Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/colu ... z1sGOsdc42



> [quote:149kr2i6]Don Peay, founder, is quoted in that same article saying, "it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource" and further described "that egalitarian doctrine, found in Alaska's state constitution and laws throughout the West, as 'socialism'." Make no mistake how Peay and the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife feel about public wildlife and public hunting - not the way most in Montana feel about it.


[/quote:149kr2i6]

Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/colu ... z1sGP9H3nS


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Goofy elk is in favor of wolf hunting like most of us. He also blindly supports SFW because he ignore the FACTS.

Montana has a wolf season thanks to the Simpson-Tester rider.

I wonder what Goofy elk thinks about SFW who tried to kill that legislation in Washington, D.C? Why would SFW try to kill legislation that allows wolves to be killed?



> This organization is making a concerted effort to make inroads into Montana using the wolf as their rallying cry. The group has advocated wolf management positions that could result in wolf RELISTING. The wolf is the group's "cash cow," helping fund their efforts to privatize wildlife for the benefit of the few. All to the detriment of the average Montana hunter.


Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/colu ... z1sGSW1Gk9

Keep drinking the Koolaid SFW supporters.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Serious questions here:

Is the word "inroads" to be taken literally?

How is the wolf the cash cow?

I am being honest with these questions. Please enlighten me.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Serious questions here:
> 
> Is the word "inroads" to be taken literally?
> 
> ...


Well MM, you know how the internet is, tough to take many things literally. The "inroads" being talked about refers to the way Montanan's think about SFW/BGF getting a strong foothold there. One way they see them doing it is via the wolf issue: It get's em farther in the door with claims they are at the forefront of the wolf fight. SFW/BGF are simply not wanted there by many folks and many of the in state orgs (that's the way I understand it).

Seem's folks on the outside (read other states) have a different if not clearer perspective than folks on the inside (read Utah). Take it how you will but SFW/BGF are taking a beating and are looked down upon by a ton of western hunters and a lot of the states. Can't say I blame them much. The cash cow deal isn't too hard to see if one looks. SFW/BGF came into the wolf game at near the end of the 4th quarter, but they jumped in with both feet, and were claiming all the victories. They got a lot of folks to join the bandwagon and donate money so they could "fight the wolf war", and they did very well. Now things are on the downturn for the orgs, mostly due to the snaffu's they pushed for in Washington.

Do some research, it might open yer eyes a bit, one way or the other depending on how you see things. _(O)_ :shock:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm NOT a member, NOR have ever been a member of SFW or BGF...

YOTE WTF?

I just get tired of some of you guys slamming orgs that are actulaly doing somthing..

The fight they are putting up on the wolf front is very immpressive to say the least..


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

So what is your primary purpose for posting this thread coyoteslayer, to discuss the SFW or to attack goofyelk?? You post the article then immediately start mean mouthing another forum member before anyone else even has a chance to respond. Agree or disagree with the article, I'm left shaking my head thinking WTF??


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Haha because he constantly says how great sfw is so I posted this to call this to his attention to enlighten him. Kevin I have been shaking my head for years saying WTF.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Someone is coming in at the fourth quarter...CS, this is old news. Same mis-quotes, same retoric, same BS...enjoy trolling.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I am not one for making claims without listing facts to back them up. I especially despise when a question is answered by a question. That said I have read a lot of articles by a lot of respected people and I am finding that while the SFW has done a lot of good and a lot of the members have made many sacrifices, it certainly appears to a man that has been on the fence, that there are more efficient ways to get the job done. I am not knocking those that have donated their time and effort and have made a real difference in the field at all. Those that have sacrificed their most precious asset get nothing but kudos from me and I really don't care what organization it is for. 

I have had pretty major concerns of the lack of transparency of the SFW. Having grown up in Wyoming and having seen the devastation that the reintroduction of wolves has done first hand, I find it very hard to believe that any pro-hunting/conservation organization would push to keep the wolf protected in order to collect more donations to "fight the good fight".

I find it hard to believe from an ethical stand point that is. From a business perspective it makes perfect sense.

It has become very apparent to me that the leaders of the SFW have pushed for bills to delist the wolf, knowing in advance that they would not be passed by any legislation. Is it a fact that I can prove? No. Proving a motive is a very tough thing to do. When I asked about the cash cow I wanted to hear it from any perspective that I could. I know that many people don't like coming out and calling a spade a spade. Without having first hand knowledge all I can say is that it has become "very apparent". The material and information that I have gathered has been telling. Claims against the SFW, statements by the SFW (or lack thereof at times) and a lot is literature by people that are neither for or against the SFW do not bode well. The most telling information came from a person that I talked with that was involved with the SFW. I asked this person straight up last night if he had any first hand knowledge that the SFW had covertly pushed to maintain the wolves status as a protected species in order to gather more money to keep the fight alive. He refused to respond to me. I then asked him if he was personally involved with it and he refused to respond again.

I honestly felt like throwing up.

An organization can claim to have spent $5 million towards a cause but if they have pulled $20 million in donations to fight it..........well let's just say that that $15 million can paint a lot of fence..........on both sides........... and leave Tom Sawyer in pretty fine shape.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Haha Bowhunter I can see that you learned well in the SFW brainwashing school.

Here is what I found out from reading about this issue.

The SFW had a bill that was known as the Hatch-Rehberg bill. This bill had no chance whatsoever. SFW introduced this bill one month before the Montana, Idaho wolf delisting bill. The bill that SFW introduced never even got a committee hearing during the month it was introduced. Even as of today, this bill that SFW introduced has never even made it out of committee.

Everyone that was involved in this whole process knew that the SFW bill didn't even have a chance, including SFW. The SFW bill never even got a committee vote.

SFW had 60 supporters and not even the sponsors of this bill tried to fight to get the bill out of committee. SFW needed 269 votes in Congress. They were 209 votes short in Congress and only 1 vote short in the Oval Office. No one in their right mind would even try to fight those kinds of odds so naturally they just let the bill sit in committee.

So for whatever reason SFW and BGF chose to fight against the one bill that had a chance which was the Montana/Idaho bill. This bill has proven to be the real answer to the wolf problem.

When SFW was fighting against this bill then SFW said the MT/ID bill would get shot down in court, They said it wouldn't solve any problems. SFW believed it would also screw WY in the future.

Like always SFW is wrong on a lot of issues and the bill has stood up in the Federal District Courts process and also the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. This bill also created a for the December delisting that happened in the Great Lakes states. The MT/ID bill also allowed the good old state of WY to continue their fight with USFWS and WY will likely get their wolf hunting season sometime this fall.

Bowhunter you will have to ask DON face to face why SFW/BGF why they wanted to kill the Montana/Idaho delisting bill. Let me know if Don can answer you with a straight face. SFW was wrong on all accounts. I haven't even read one article stating that SFW denies trying to kill this bill. If there is one then post it.

Of course you will hear a different version from DON himself. BUT the facts are out there. I admit I don't know all the answers since the whole thing is a big mess, but it's funny that SFW tries to take credit for the wolf delisting when they were the ones fighting against it.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

CS, there is so much you don't know I wouldn't even know where to begin. I can't say I specifically asked Don about this bill, but it doesn't matter. We have talked extensively about their fight to give states control of the wolf issue. You can spin it however you want, I have no desire to try to change your mind. It's been my experience that there are some that are so focused on being the anti-SFW that they wouldn't change their mind no matter what the facts are. So it's not even a discussion, but more of a p issinmatch for you.

I know they are on the forefront fighting for us. They have teamed up with other organizations and politicians to help maintain our opportunities. I know of personal meetings Don has had with liberal politicians to get the support and backing. There is so much more going on behind the scenes than you realize. Sorry, but many of the small victories happen in small closed door meetings. Meetings that you aren't going to find on Google.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

That's what worries me the most... Small SFW victories being won politically behind closed doors... :shock:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> That's what worries me the most... Small SFW victories being won politically behind closed doors... :shock:


Does that scare you more than big anti-hunting victories being won behind closed doors????

If you truely understood what was being accomplished you would understand that a SFW victory is really a victory for all sportsmen.


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## Longfeather (Nov 27, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > That's what worries me the most... Small SFW victories being won politically behind closed doors... :shock:
> ...


OK so educate us BWHNTR. What is going on, if it is so good for us sportsmen then why can't it stand the light of day? If it can stand the light of day, then share it.

What is truly being accomplished?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

All I know is that SFW has lobbied to restrict hunting and been far more successful than any anti-hunting group. SFW has effectively helped cut tags in Utah for....? How many years have they been around now?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

It is obvious what is being accomplished. What we see with the wolves being delisted, states gaining their rights to control the population of wolves are all fruits of the labors from many different organizations working together with state senators and other politicians. Believe me when I tell you that it is a dirty fight and this is where the anti's fight against us. These organizations that represent us as sportsmen don't like it, they don't want to play in politics, but they HAVE to. We have to line the pockets of the same greasy politicians that the anti's do. Not by choice. I know of these kind of meetings, and I know who's pocket book the money came out of. I am not going to post up names and places as it's not my responsibility to do so. This is however, how the game is played like it or not.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> All I know is that SFW has lobbied to restrict hunting and been far more successful than any anti-hunting group. SFW has effectively helped cut tags in Utah for....? How many years have they been around now?


Whats that fun word??? Hyperboyle.


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## Longfeather (Nov 27, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> It is obvious what is being accomplished. What we see with the wolves being delisted, states gaining their rights to control the population of wolves are all fruits of the labors from many different organizations working together with state senators and other politicians. Believe me when I tell you that it is a dirty fight and this is where the anti's fight against us. These organizations that represent us as sportsmen don't like it, they don't want to play in politics, but they HAVE to. We have to line the pockets of the same greasy politicians that the anti's do. Not by choice. I know of these kind of meetings, and I know who's pocket book the money came out of. I am not going to post up names and places as it's not my responsibility to do so. This is however, how the game is played like it or not.


So you have the information to prove your point but you won't post it. You want people to blindly trust you and SFW and the greasy politicians.

No thank you!


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## Longfeather (Nov 27, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> wyoming2utah said:
> 
> 
> > All I know is that SFW has lobbied to restrict hunting and been far more successful than any anti-hunting group. SFW has effectively helped cut tags in Utah for....? How many years have they been around now?
> ...


That is actually a fact. SFW is open about it and if you will read and/or listen to the RAC and board meeting minutes you will be see it is a fact.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> wyoming2utah said:
> 
> 
> > All I know is that SFW has lobbied to restrict hunting and been far more successful than any anti-hunting group. SFW has effectively helped cut tags in Utah for....? How many years have they been around now?
> ...


No hyperbole about it...go back and read the minutes from past WB meetings. How many of those meetings did anti-hunters not only successfully lobby to reduce tags but in how many did they even lobby to reduce tags? Now look and do the same thing for SFW...the fact is that SFW has helped cut tags numerous times--usually every year!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Longfeather said:


> So you have the information to prove your point but you won't post it. You want people to blindly trust you and SFW and the greasy politicians.
> 
> No thank you!


If thats how you want to spin it. I do have information, but it is not my place to post it. My previous post pretty much sums it up without including names. What more do you want? I am pretty sure it wouldn't matter what I posted you are going to trust the media, and anti's over anything I have to say anyways. It's all good. I am sure you yourself is doing more than SFW could ever do. Good luck with that.


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## Longfeather (Nov 27, 2007)

And that is why people don't trust SFW. They push for tag cuts and spout off all they do for us sportsmen but they are so secretive about the back room workings that people aren't comfortable with them. 

I want you to post the information. If it is good works it will stand on its own.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

You lose so much credibility now bowhunter when you cant even post because your master don peay won't allow it.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > wyoming2utah said:
> ...


A-FREAKING-MEN! From elk permits to deer permits....to season lengths to areas 'allowed' to hunt....SFW has proven to be VERY good at reducing opportunity!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Shane, if you are going to plagiarize one of 'my' words, at least spell it correctly!!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Shane, if you are going to plagiarize one of 'my' words, at least spell it correctly!!


 :mrgreen:


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

I read a lot of this back and forth about SFW, and the more I read and research, I side with the anti- SFW side merely because I am a opportunity hunter. Hunters are a diverse group and includes everything from the guy who road hunts and shoots the first meat buck he sees to the guy who scouts all year, backpacks in to the back country with the intention of harvesting a trophy and will settle for nothing less. Then there is the high $ group who pays for their trophy, at the expense of the opportunity of others. 

In my opinion, this is the group the SFW panders to. Some of their actions do support the goals of the other groups, which is why they have broad support across the spectrum, but their goal is clear, to maximize their foothold in the trophy hunting for cash industry. It isn't as if there isn't enough already out there. They have CMWUs, LE ( just look at the elk hunting in Utah), the Expo, conservation tags, etc. Now they want to push to have tags stripped away from GS units, for no biological reason. All in the name of having an easier chance at a nice buck. It makes me sick. It is ironic the posts about them working with greasy politicians; because in my opinion, SFW leadership are nothing more than greasy, corrupt politicians themselves.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

One other thing, that is why I joined UWC, because it is a new organization with vested interest in the issues of the majority and what is best for the resource, and up to this point, is not lining their pockets from the spoils of other's lost opportunity and blindness. Let's keep that way guys, cause we need at least one group standing up for the average Joe.


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## cacherinthewry (Dec 20, 2007)

You can see who greases palms and who gets the grease, and it's right here online:
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.php

Just enter in a last name...Peay for example. Choose a state...Utah for example. Those will be enough to start a sort.

After that, choose all 3 election cycles, to see who "donated" what to whom, and even under what business, organization, or personal interest. You should also look at what spouses may have donated as well.

Don't forget to search again under the 1990-2006 grouping as well.

Unless you're really good at running numbers in your head you should also grab a calculator.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

I find it interesting that Mr Peay and his wife donated so much money to Harry Reid


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I would like somebody to the dirty work and post it all.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

And the newly released DWR 'news article',,,,Conservation permits SFW and other orgs
have sold.........1.3 million $$$ back into Utah's wildlife.........................................

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-ut ... dlife.html


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

leviwin said:


> I find it interesting that Mr Peay and his wife donated so much money to Harry Reid


How much money was donated from sportsmen's dollars? How does Harry Reid help wildlife?


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

cacherinthewry said:


> You can see who greases palms and who gets the grease, and it's right here online:
> http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.php
> Just enter in a last name...Peay for example. Choose a state...Utah for example. Those will be enough to start a sort.
> After that, choose all 3 election cycles, to see who "donated" what to whom, and even under what business, organization, or personal interest. You should also look at what spouses may have donated as well.
> ...


Here is 2010 and 2011 results I found in a quick search.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> leviwin said:
> 
> 
> > I find it interesting that Mr Peay and his wife donated so much money to Harry Reid
> ...


Ding, ding, ding...Why would a VERY conversative person like Don Peay donate his personal money to an extreme liberal like Harry Reid? Hmmmm, interesting...

I know the answer. Some of you just don't listen very well. You can't get the rules changed, wolves delisted, by not forcing the hand of the left. Wake up CS.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

you need to wake up bowhunter AND PUT DOWN THE KOOLAID. We are still waiting for you to post some facts, but instead you come up with a lame excuse that you don't have permission.

Don Peay donated 2,250 to Harry Reid which is pocket change. I'm sure the anti-wolf lovers could have bought Harry Reid for much more. 

It's also funny you say Don is a conservative when his actions follow socialism.

BTW the facts show that SFW fought against the only bill that had a chance of getting passed and it PASSED.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> you need to wake up bowhunter AND PUT DOWN THE KOOLAID. We are still waiting for you to post some facts, but instead you come up with a lame excuse that you don't have permission.
> 
> Don Peay donated 2,250 to Harry Reid which is pocket change. I'm sure the anti-wolf lovers could have bought Harry Reid for much more.
> 
> ...


CS, you are only proving you don'tknows hit about what you are talking about. The fact that I don't talk out of place shows what kind of person I am. So keep talking about things you know NOTHING about.

The FACT is they were pushing a bill that included 4 states instead of only 2. I have the draft right in front of me. They weren't against the bill that passed, it just made more sense to include 4 states and a possibility of AZ instead of only two. You are twisting information to makes a BS point. The funny thing is you know so little about it you aren't even aware of what facts you are twisting.

$2250 is NOT the total that was donated to Reid...


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)




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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

If you have been given this secret info from sfw then it's ok if any hunter can see this info because you are no one of importances. Your just another little sfw koolaid drinker.

You have a copy of the sfw bill that didn't even make it out of commitee. Look up the facts and admit when you're wrong. I'm not twisting any such thing.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> If you have been given this secret info from sfw then it's ok if any hunter can see this info because you are no one of importances. Your just another little sfw koolaid drinker..


Well then, you are asking the wrong person. Go ask someone of importance. :roll: _(O)_



coyoteslayer said:


> You have a copy of the sfw bill that didn't even make it out of commitee. Look up the facts and admit when you're wrong. I'm not twisting any such thing.


I have the facts, and YOU are dead wrong. Somethings never change CS...


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

No bowhunter you're dead wrong haha I'm not going to play your pissing match game especially when you want to keep ignoring facts without posting facts that you claim to have. So we will agree to disagree.

Your right I should be asking someone who knows more than you.


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