# Why are some people so scared/paranoid



## OldGeezer (Jun 3, 2014)

I have had several times up grouse hunting where people have been a bit scared/paranoid. One time we walked through a camp area and the people said "please don't shoot us". Like we would really do that ? Today I was up near the same area and walking up an old dirt road with my shotgun pointed forward but aimed down at the ground. I came around a corner and this guy starts yelling "please sir stop pointing your rifle directly at me". I told him it is pointed at the ground and walked on past him. He was waiting where I was parked when I came out and he started to lecture me on having more courtesy. I told him that in all my years of hiking I have never confronted anyone the way he did. He repeated again that I had my rifle pointed directly at him. I told him I hadn't seen him until he came around the bush so what does he expect me to do. He said you still had it pointed directly at me. I was getting really annoyed with this guy and told him first it isn't a rifle its a shotgun and it was pointed at the ground and in all of the 55 years I've had it it has never accidentally misfired. He says there is a first time for everything. I repeated again "it was not pointed directly at you but at the ground" and he said "why would I lie". At this point I got in my Jeep and left. Maybe I could have handled this better but this guy was really getting on my nerves. Why are some people so scared and think they need to chew out hunters ?


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Recent transplants is my guess. Guns are scary to them.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

A lot of folks, including many if not most Utahns, have never been around firearms. It throws them off guard. Not much you can do other than move on in a moment like that were someone is being so antagonistic. Last thing we want is to escalate a situation while we have firearms in our possession. Sounds like you managed pretty well.

Sorry it happened. I've been lucky when upland hunting and only had minor issues during my limited big game hunting. I've luckily only run into others while upland hunting when the action of my O/U was open on my shoulder or elbow; I think that visually calms people down.

Hopefully the rest of your season is uneventful.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

"Sorry, I am fluent in 5 languages, but I don't speak moron" usually works for me


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

About a month ago I was shooting a bow at the rocky mountain specialty gear store near Denver. A yuppie "Colorado type" guy was shooting near me and got sketched out because I momentarily had the arrow of my completely undrawn bow pointed in his direction for a second. He wasn't hostile about it, just gave me a friendly safety tip 😜


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Haha. Reminds me of a time I was hiking a trail on pine valley mtn looking for some pine hens.

A group of 3 people were passing me and they had the nerves to tell me I can't hunt on a public trail 😂 🤣 😂

I just told them to go back to commifornia and shucked a shell in the gun because I happened to see some grouse at that exact moment.

They were not waiting for me at the trailhead......


I quit trying to hunt Quail on the red cliffs reserve surrounding St. George because every time I would go out someone would tell me I couldn't hunt on the reserve. I got tired of explaining to California people and LEO'S that I was completely legal. Not to mention that the reserve was funded with fees from hunting licenses.


My ex wife was working for the blm and doing spring inventories on the parashant national monument when the famous Bundy stand off took place outside of mesquite Nevada.

For that entire year everytime my ex's coworkers saw or heard guns in the field they would call the LEO'S and cry wolf. Everytime they just assumed the worst and told the LEO's that the Bundy's were shooting at them.

The LEO's quickly got tired of this repeating week after week and they had to have a meeting about it with all of the blm employees in the St. George field office.

Sure enough it kept happening and one of the BLM interns got a ticket for filing a false police report a few weeks after the meeting.

I just expect this kind of behavior now when I am within 30 miles of St. George.....

My ex and I sure got a good laugh out of that ticket.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Over the years, the news and other media has made hunters out to be nothing more than a bunch of criminals. Because of that, everyone who believes everything the news has to say, thinks that all hunters are a bunch of accident prone gun packing idiots. While their assumption is mostly true, the idea of responsible people safely and legally handling firearms is completely out of their list of possibilities when they come across a hunter in the wild.

last year I ran into a group of ladies hiking on a popular trail during the bowhunt. They stopped ME where the trail forked, to ask a question on where the trail ends up. Half way through my response, one of them noticed my handgun on pack. She then proceeded to ask me if it was loaded, which it was (always is). She then began to lecture me on public safety and personal safety. Then she informed me I was not allowed to possess ANY firearm on public lands unless I had a valid hunting permit that was for a firearm season. After several minutes of answering her stupid questions regarding the gun, the “leader” once again asked if the right hand fork took her to the desired destination. Before I could answer with a ‘NO’, she told me her map said it did, she just wanted to verify with me. I don’t know how far they made it down the wrong trail before they figured out I lied to them and agreed with her maps directions, but I’m sure the hike back out of that hole to correct their error was enjoyable 😂


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Where I hunt javelina in Arizona there is a trail system called the Arizona Trail that transverse the state north and south and with that trail comes all kinds of people that have no idea of what's going on outside of their world.

I have been lectured to about driving a ATV on the trail while I was on a two track open to ATV's. Having a unlicensed or registered ATV, at the time non-residents didn't need to license or register them. Having a loaded firearm while operating a motorized vehicle, and a few other things. They have even called the authorities on a couple of occasions about us. 

Then there are the ones who ask us to give them a ride out to their vehicle or that they need some water or food when they ran out.

It's gotten to the point that we avoid that trail area as much as possible but there are some great glassing areas just off of it, and yes we have been yelled at for traveling off of the trail when we have walked over to the edge of the hill to glass.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Be sure to let these weirdos know that Utah has and will enforce our Hunter Harassment laws.
Start asking them for their name and number and let them know they are violating Utah State Code and could be cited.
Take their vehicle license if you can get it and report them.
Hopefully an officer will make contact and give them a verbal warning at a minimum.
It won’t help you at the moment, but it will help the next hunter, hopefully.
Morons must be educated to bring them up and out of the moron bracket.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

MrShane said:


> Be sure to let these weirdos know that Utah has and will enforce our Hunter Harassment laws.
> Start asking them for their name and number and let them know they are violating Utah State Code and could be cited.
> Take their vehicle license if you can get it and report them.
> Hopefully an officer will make contact and give them a verbal warning at a minimum.
> ...


I don't think the OP's experience counts as "driving, harassing, or intentionally disturbing any species of wildlife for the purpose of disrupting a legal hunt, trapping, or predator control" as defined by Utah's harassment law 23-20-29. Maybe I'm misreading the law but it seems narrowly tailored and focused on intentional interactions with wildlife. 

Nor does it seem to constitute a violation of 23-20-29.5, "Interference with hunters or hunting activity" according to the requisite definitions under 76-9-102. The requirements regarding that type of disorderly conduct are also pretty limited. 

The individual definitely seems to have over reacted to the presence of a firearm but it doesn't seem to rise to the standard of harassment. 

Even ns450f's offenders don't seem to meet those standards. Ignorant? Yes. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find a charge of harassment for making incorrect claims about hunting being prohibited. 

There are a couple lawyers that can set me straight if I'm wrong on that reading of our hunter harassment laws. I just don't think we are protected from people saying stupid things on public land.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I'd have told him, "It's not the gun you're needing to worry about, but what's standing in front of you".


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Unfortunately it is not just with guns but archery tackle to. I don't know how many people have asked me to not shoot their dog. My answer has been they are not worth the money it would cost me unless they are being aggressive.
I don't know how to hunt the extended hunt without dealing with people like this.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Please tell me they are least have their dogs in blaze orange? It amazes me how few hikers and dog owners have their dogs wear orange but worry about their pets being shot.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

They also need to check the rules and regulations on leash laws on National Forest property and the definition of "under voice control" 

This last archery season here in Colorado a property owner shot and killed a dog that was on his property with his archery equipment. He claimed that the dog was chasing deer and the owner was out of sight and had no control over the dog. The person that was running the dog also received a summons for trespassing on private. But if it would of been on National Forest the dog was still would of been considered abandoned or not under control.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Yup over and over again on the Wasatch extended I’ve been asked whether I’d accidentally shoot their dog  
They don’t like it when I mention to them that their dog is not allowed there.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

MrShane said:


> Be sure to let these weirdos know that Utah has and will enforce our Hunter Harassment laws.
> Start asking them for their name and number and let them know they are violating Utah State Code and could be cited.
> Take their vehicle license if you can get it and report them.
> Hopefully an officer will make contact and give them a verbal warning at a minimum.
> ...


I don't know about the rest of the state but the 2 times police were called on me for legally hunting on the red cliffs reserve surrounding St. George the cops almost arrested me.

The police immediately assumed that I was breaking the law and I had to get the cops permission to even open my phone and show them the regs for the reserve. 

The police here in St. George or Washington city are not going to give anyone a ticket for hunter harassment.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I’ve been “harassed” multiple times while hunting, both by other hunters and non hunters. The DWR and other law enforcement agencies won’t do d!¢k. Even with threats made from the other parties, cops won’t do anything. The only time a cop was ever in the mood to do anything, was when I told a disgruntled hunter who didn’t like sharing the same mountain with me that morning, that I’d “let the air out of his horse” after I caught him trying to let the air out of my tires on my bike. I walked up on him right as he was taking off my valve stem cap. After a brief F bomb exchange, he took off and I figured that was it. Well he ran to cell service and told dispatch I was going to shoot his horse “for no reason whatsoever”. Anyways, 2 county sheriffs were waiting for me at my truck when I got back. They weren’t very happy with me and didn’t want to hear my side to it. I tried explaining to them what had happened. They didn’t care about what he was in the process of doing, they just cared about what I threatened to do. Apparently threats of “animal cruelty” are much more severe than the actual destruction of someone’s private property, even when it could come down to a personal safety issue when you can’t get off the mountain in those kinds of weather conditions. (For the record, I wouldn’t shoot anyones horse. I was appalled and shocked at what he was actually doing and I got mad and told him how I felt)

I’ve had a few other times where I was full on harassed by guys who didn’t want me in “their” spot. I had names, proof of what occurred… they never even contacted the individuals involved to ask them about it. Just made a little report for their records and left it at that. reporting them is just a waste of time, unless things really get out of hand and you don’t have any other options. But I still wouldn’t expect anything to ever come from it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

ns450f said:


> I don't know about the rest of the state but the 2 times police were called on me for legally hunting on the red cliffs reserve surrounding St. George the cops almost arrested me.
> 
> The police immediately assumed that I was breaking the law and I had to get the cops permission to even open my phone and show them the regs for the reserve.
> 
> The police here in St. George or Washington city are not going to give anyone a ticket for hunter harassment.


I doubt that the local police even know about the hunter harassment law. If you have problems being harassed then call the DWR.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

You know, I can honestly say I've never been harassed by other hunters while out hunting. 

I have had a rather lengthy discussion with a fish cop about the difference between hunting big game with my dog as a companion (legal) versus using my dog to hunt big game (not legal). After 25 minutes and me daring him to write the ticket as I welcomed the chance to show a judge just how stupid this buttmunch was, he tried to get away with 'I'll just give you a warning this time'. 

Oh no. I hit him with something along the lines of "If you're going to give me a 'warning,' give me the danmed ticket so I can show up to court and hear you try to explain how my 14 week old puppy walking at my heels was me using it to hunt caribou. It'll be a blast, wear something nice. Oh and since there is only one judge for this particular area, I'll be sure to tell his honor at my next dog training with him just how much of a **** you are. It'll be great." 

To Officer Twatface's credit, he just stood there quiet for a few seconds and then walked away.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

JC, it sounds like the officer has watched too many of the F&G shows on TV and wanted to exert his authority like some of them will do.

We ran into one of these type down in Arizona one year. The senior officer who was with him just stood there in the background making a face like what is he doing?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I had an officer at Kolob reservoir run down to where I was fishing one time and accuse me of tipping my jig with live bait. Not sure what he thought he saw but he says he saw me pull the bait off and throw it on the ground when I saw him coming. I didn't even see that cheese infested foreskin until he was right on top of me! He told me he was just gonna let me off with a warning because he couldn't prove what I had done since he couldn't find the incriminating evidence, but he KNEW that I had been baiting. Being called a liar when I know I am not lying pisses me off. Then there was the time that a sheriff over by Parowan told me he was gonna "let me off with a warning" for a loaded gun in a vehicle. I had rounds in the magazine, but nothing in the chamber. He told me that was still illegal and I could be cited for that. Fuggin tossers.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

I hunt a legal spot that a bunch of people don’t want me to hunt.
A few years ago I made a preemptive move and the day before the season I call the local LEO and re-introduce myself and that the season starts the next morning.
I let them know I have been harassed and now they show up after a few hours to check up on me.
Every time they are very friendly and thank me for educating them in advance.
I still park my truck about 50 yards from the p/l because I don’t want people messing with my truck.
They LEO now parks near my vehicle to watch me for a bit and I don’t mind at all.
When we met up this year on opening morning he greeted me with “Well Shane, we knew it would be you as soon as the ‘shots fired’ call came in”.
This year he brought the next in command to introduce me too.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Then there was the time that a sheriff over by Parowan told me he was gonna "let me off with a warning" for a loaded gun in a vehicle. I had rounds in the magazine, but nothing in the chamber. He told me that was still illegal and I could be cited for that. Fuggin tossers.



There are or were two different laws as far as a loaded firearm at one time, I'm not sure if they corrected it or not. Calling Vanela on this one.

As it was explained to me the law where the DWR was concerned was that it had to take two separate actions for a weapon to go off. The one for the LEO's was ammo in the firearm no matter what.

Everything could be changed with the popularity of the CC laws. 

The law changed some since I was called on the carpet for it:






Utah Code Section 76-10-502







le.utah.gov


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

For as long as I have been driving in utah the laws for a long arm in a vehicle has always been no rounds in the chamber regardless of actions required to fire the rifle.

Handguns have always had their own set of rules.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

ns450f said:


> For as long as I have been driving in utah the laws for a long arm in a vehicle has always been no rounds in the chamber regardless of actions required to fire the rifle.
> 
> Handguns have always had their own set of rules.


The firearm in my story was a deer rifle.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Edit: see below


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Looks like I've misunderstood the "notwithstanding" clause. I was wrong and no one is allowed to carry a loaded rifle, as ns450f stated (makes complete sense to me). What threw me off was the reference to law enforcement; I had no clue they were prevented from carrying loaded long guns.

I've always transported my long guns partially broken down. For my rifle I take the bolt out. For my O/U it either travels in it's case broken down into two parts or with the action open. Neither are ever loaded and I keep my loaded magazine separate.

*I wasn't prepared for how bad my memory would get having a kid at this age. It's clear as day in the proclamations, I just haven't needed to read them in two years. Some days my brain is pure mush.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Then there's the bonus complications of the Gun Free School Zone Act at the federal level. It's a felony to be within 1000' of a K-12 school with a gun unless it's unloaded (feds require it to be completely unloaded--nothing in the chamber or magazine) and in a locked container in the vehicle. If you have a concealed carry permit from the state where the school is located you can get around it, and there are a few other exceptions. 

The number of folks that commit this felony every hunting season by having their rifle/shotgun in a soft sided or other unlocked case and driving through a school zone is crazy high.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

johnnycake said:


> Then there's the bonus complications of the Gun Free School Zone Act at the federal level. It's a felony to be within 1000' of a K-12 school with a gun unless it's unloaded (feds require it to be completely unloaded--nothing in the chamber or magazine) and in a locked container in the vehicle. If you have a concealed carry permit from the state where the school is located you can get around it, and there are a few other exceptions.
> 
> The number of folks that commit this felony every hunting season by having their rifle/shotgun in a soft sided or other unlocked case and driving through a school zone is crazy high.


That's why you don't speed through a school zone. Remember the golden rule... Only break one law at a time.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

APD said:


> That's why you don't speed through a school zone. Remember the golden rule... Only break one law at a time.


My Dad told me back in the 70's that laws/rules were more of a "guideline" to follow. When he busted me for breaking a "rule" on the farm, he was giving me the what-N-all real hard. He asked me what I was thinking. I said that "rules" were just a guideline, and I was exercising my right to challenge said rule. About that time I saw the Judgment of his leather belt.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

johnnycake said:


> Then there's the bonus complications of the Gun Free School Zone Act at the federal level. It's a felony to be within 1000' of a K-12 school with a gun unless it's unloaded (feds require it to be completely unloaded--nothing in the chamber or magazine) and in a locked container in the vehicle. If you have a concealed carry permit from the state where the school is located you can get around it, and there are a few other exceptions.
> 
> The number of folks that commit this felony every hunting season by having their rifle/shotgun in a soft sided or other unlocked case and driving through a school zone is crazy high.



I think in 90% of the state no LEO will enforce this unless they catch someone being nefarious and creeping on a school with a gun.

Dad's picking up their kids to go shooting or hunting shouldn't worry....... as long as an alphabet agency isn't following them.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> Then there's the bonus complications of the Gun Free School Zone Act at the federal level. It's a felony to be within 1000' of a K-12 school with a gun unless it's unloaded (feds require it to be completely unloaded--nothing in the chamber or magazine) and in a locked container in the vehicle. If you have a concealed carry permit from the state where the school is located you can get around it, and there are a few other exceptions.


That was my #1 reason for getting a CCP. I wanted to hunt with my son in the morning and drop him off at school. Plus my house is in the center of 4 different schools.

-DallanC


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

ns450f said:


> I think in 90% of the state no LEO will enforce this unless they catch someone being nefarious and creeping on a school with a gun.
> 
> Dad's picking up their kids to go shooting or hunting shouldn't worry....... as long as an alphabet agency isn't following them.


All it takes is the wrong slimy butthole with a badge at the right time in the wrong mood.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

I was out hunting pheasants with my kids and walking with my gun over my shoulder pointing backwards and a guy and his kids were come up and the guy starts going off and telling me not to carry it like that because it would be pointed at them when they passed. I’ve been hunting my whole life and very aware of what’s going on . I would have corrected. I think he was showing off for his kids or he maybe works at LeeKay 🤣


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

wow! I'm surprised with how many "non-hunter" conflicts you guys have had.


I've had far more "hunter" conflicts than I've ever had non-hunter conflicts.

We regularly glass from a very popular look off. Tour busses, motorhomes, motor cycles, etc., etc. constantly pull in and out of this look off all day long during the archery hunt. We are typically parked with an ATV, decked out in camo, and have our bows with us. We've talked with literally hundreds of tourists, both US and non-US people, and we have NEVER once been harassed. I've posed with tour groups for pictures in my camo with my bow -- fully expecting to show up on a PETA billboard in Paris. Those Europeans really get excited when they find out we are hunting "wapiti". We always look forward to glassing from this location, and encounters we are going to have.

Pretty ironic difference when another hunting group, or more specifically guiding outfits, show up at the same look off.
🤷‍♂️


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