# What is a maximum range for a hawkins?



## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

So, my Dad is coming up here next year for muzzle loader. He has a Traditional Hawkins 50 cal. with a 1/66 barrel twist so he is shooting either a 177 gr. round ball or if his gun will shoot it a 240 gr. Pennsylvanian conicle. 

I know the gun might be capable of killing a deer at 100 yards but I am concerned about the expansion past 75 and not having a good blood trail on a deer that is going to run a long time! What is a safe range to anchor a deer in his tracks or not have him go 300 yards?
From what I research it seems like 50 yards is about as far as I'd be comfortable shooting.

Any of you guys have any knowledge about how hard these guns hit?
Thanks!!


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

I shoot a 390 grain Maxiball with 100 grains of powder. I shot last years deer at 95 yards and had compete pass through. With a either bullet you will have plenty of punch at 100 yards. I limit myself to 100 yrds because with open sites your sight picture gets really small after that, in my opinion and the odds of hitting the kill zone gets much less probable.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Maybe ask Major General John Sedgwick?



> Sedgwick fell at the beginning of the Battle of Spotsylvania Court House, on May 9, 1864. His corps was probing skirmish lines ahead of the left flank of Confederate defenses and he was directing artillery placements. *Confederate sharpshooters were about 1,000 yards (900 m) *away and their shots caused members of his staff and artillerymen to duck for cover. Sedgwick strode around in the open and was quoted as saying, "What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line?" Although ashamed, his men continued to flinch and he repeated, "*I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.*"_*Just seconds later he fell forward with a bullet hole below his left eye.*_


:mrgreen:

For myself 85% of all my hunting shots have been under 100 yards. Rarely I've shot further, but never past 150 yards.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The max range that I have shot my .54 Renegade with a 430 grain maxi ball has been 125 yards at a elk with a complete pass through. The deer that I have shot with it have all been less than 100 yards. You need to take your dad out and see what he can do with a 6" pie plate to figure the range that he is comfortable shooting.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

A 1 in 66" twist will prefer a patched round ball. I doubt it would do well with a conical at all.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> You need to take your dad out and see what he can do with a 6" pie plate to figure the range that he is comfortable shooting.


+1

Go shooting, see what he can do.

-DallanC


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

The maximum range for me is about 140yds with my hawkin - beyond that my groups get to big to be able to trust. The projectile is lethal beyond that I'm sure but the dope on the other end of the gun is what is limiting my range. If I could shoot I'd have no doubt it's still effective at 200yrds and maybe even 300 but I cant shoot well enough for that.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I shouldn't mention this... the furthest I know of a deer killed with a plain ole no scope, TC Hawkin shooting plain old GOEX FF Black powder and a round ball, was at 325 yards. A well known forum poster here did it, great big old heavy 4x4 buck. 8)

-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't hunt with a "front end loader" but my brother does. He has killed 9 deer over the years with his and tells me that he has never shot one more than 85 yards.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

DallanC said:


> I shouldn't mention this... the furthest I know of a deer killed with a plain ole no scope, TC Hawkin shooting plain old GOEX FF Black powder and a round ball, was at 325 yards. A well known forum poster here did it, great big old heavy 4x4 buck. 8)
> 
> -DallanC


Shaun Larsen?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

If that hawken can shoot a conical you will have much better range than with a round ball. My .54 knight in-line can shoot 425 grain hornady great plains conicals further than my skills without the aid of a scope would allow me to.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

There is no way a 1 in 66 twist is going to stabilize a big honkin' maxi-ball. No, I don't have personal experience, but I've read & researched enough that I feel I can make that call.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

127.478348 yards


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

royta said:


> There is no way a 1 in 66 twist is going to stabilize a big honkin' maxi-ball. No, I don't have personal experience, but I've read & researched enough that I feel I can make that call.


+1

BUT, Ball-ets have more mass than a roundball and are better stabilized in a slow twist than a conical. I've gotten really good results with ball-ets in the past.

-DallanC


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

100 with open sights. Look for a good peep sight and you might squeeze another 25.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks for all the comments! 
I'm really more concerned with the power of the load rather than the accuracy. Everything I have read about minimum FPE to kill a deer humanly says 800 fpe. 
The 180 gr. ball is down to 800 at 30 yards!! at 100 it is only 430 fpe and at 200 yards only 250 fpe! So in my opinion that ball loaded with 100 grains of powder is a 40 yard gun. I know it will kill out farther but everything beyond 40 is really upping the odds of a long trailing job, and those often turn out with a lost deer!!


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

That doesn't sound right to me; I know that a 50 cal round ball goes clean through a deer at 110yrds cuz I watched my brother do it two years ago. Deer went less than 75yrds and died. Guess I'll have to go look up the ballistics on a round ball but I know you'll have no trouble out to 100 yards if you are shooting accurately.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I don't have any experience with them at all, never even shot one. I'm just looking at the ballistics on what he is shooting, kinda shocked really, I thought a .50 cal black powder was a cannon just lost accuracy down range.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Thanks for all the comments!
> I'm really more concerned with the power of the load rather than the accuracy. Everything I have read about minimum FPE to kill a deer humanly says 800 fpe.
> The 180 gr. ball is down to 800 at 30 yards!! at 100 it is only 430 fpe and at 200 yards only 250 fpe! So in my opinion that ball loaded with 100 grains of powder is a 40 yard gun. I know it will kill out farther but everything beyond 40 is really upping the odds of a long trailing job, and those often turn out with a lost deer!!


I would agree. Try maxi-balls or similar types. Big bullets = big holes. Your twist is something I have no experience with but I see some posts saying the accuracy is inconsistent. Good luck.


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## Spry Yellowdog (Sep 8, 2007)

My Hawken was set up for round balls for years and easily has the power to take a deer down quick at 100 yards. Pure lead expands to quarter sized patties.
Then i thought about Elk hunting loading a 370gr maxiball and pyrodex. Even with the slow barrel twist it shot them well to 100 yards. 5 shots in 5 inches. But my friends Hawken would not handle them at all. Every gun is different, like with shotguns what choke works for you may not be right for your buddys gun. Try some for yourself it may be the ticket. Plus it gives you more time behind the sights trying loads and that just makes you a better shot.

Spry


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

*redleg*

a .50 CAL doesn't need much expansion. a big heavy bullet will have a lot of effect. your 240 gr. Pennsylvanian conical will be good. I wouldn't use anything longer with a 1-66 twist. longer bullets can't be stabilized. 
A slow twist rifle can be very effective with short conicals. I have killed a 5-point bull, a few bucks and a mountain goat with mine.


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