# OTC Bison



## Brettski7

I may have missed this somewhere is posted but can’t find anything on it. Noticed an option this morning for OTC Bison but had some requirements for some course to be taken. 

Does anyone know exactly what this is? Is it a landowner private property tag only or something? The regs and guidebooks mention nothing about this tag that I could find. I’d love to get a bison hunt. 


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## Critter

From what I have heard starting this year there is suppose to be a OTC bison tag for the Wildhorse Bench herd or in the area of Wildhorse Bench.

This herd is mostly bison that have migrated off of the Ute Indian Reservation onto state or private lands on the west side of the Green River. The two primary area will be Range Creek Canyon and Nine Mile Canyon.

If you purchase one of these OTC tags then you loose all of your bison points that you use in the draw and are not eligible to put in for them again.

Now this is what I heard that came out of the January Wildlife Board meeting, I didn't listen to it so I am getting this second hand. It also could of been the February meeting


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## Brettski7

Critter said:


> From what I have heard starting this year there is suppose to be a OTC bison tag for the Wildhorse Bench herd or in the area of Wildhorse Bench.
> 
> This herd is mostly bison that have migrated off of the Ute Indian Reservation onto state or private lands on the west side of the Green River. The two primary area will be Range Creek Canyon and Nine Mile Canyon.
> 
> If you purchase one of these OTC tags then you loose all of your bison points that you use in the draw and are not eligible to put in for them again.
> 
> Now this is what I heard that came out of the January Wildlife Board meeting, I didn't listen to it so I am getting this second hand. It also could of been the February meeting


Hm ok. So sounds like this will be your once in a lifetime tag then or would one be able to get another OTC tag next year if they do the same thing and just not eligible to put in for the once in a lifetime anymore.

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## Critter

Nope no more bison tags successful or not.

That is unless you get a Expo tag

You might want to see if they have a map for the boundary 

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## Brettski7

Critter said:


> Nope no more bison tags successful or not.
> 
> That is unless you get a Expo tag
> 
> You might want to see if they have a map for the boundary
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


The site wouldn't let me do anything but purchase tags earlier. I'll try again in a little bit. Want to check out the bison page and see if there is anything available there.

Otherwise I may be able to find something Hunt planner. I tried googling and could t find anything related to OTC Bison for here. Would. Be awesome I think I'd devote more time to that than elk honestly.

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## johnnycake

Critter said:


> Nope no more bison tags successful or not.
> 
> That is unless you get a Expo tag
> 
> You might want to see if they have a map for the boundary
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


I don't believe that is correct.

My understanding was that you could continue to purchase the OTC bison permit every year that they offer it. Even people who have previously drawn a bison tag in Utah can purchase this tag.


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## Brettski7

johnnycake said:


> I don't believe that is correct.
> 
> My understanding was that you could continue to purchase the OTC bison permit every year that they offer it. Even people who have previously drawn a bison tag in Utah can purchase this tag.


That would be amazing. Anyone have any sources to post? Think this thread will be helpful to members here. I know some others were wondering about this tag also in the Elk thread today.

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## johnnycake

It was discussed on here back when the WB meeting was held. I'm a bit lazy right now but it should show up in a search


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## johnnycake

Check out the links to the materials and the meeting recording.

https://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/202173-watch-today-s-wildlife-board-meeting.html


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## Critter

From what I remember it is just one tag and you are done 

When I get back to a computer I'll have to see if I can find the information. 

Right now you can't even look on the DOW site, right now it's all about elk tags 

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## Catherder

This thread talked about these tags a fair bit and some of the accompanying challenges.

https://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/201931-ut-permit-numbers.html


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## Critter

It is hard to find but the info for the OTC bison tag is in the 2020 Field Regulations book page 29. Once you purchase the OTC bison tag you and done with bison...

https://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebook...ns 42,of big game 54 Hunt maps 62 Definitions

Nine Mile, Range Creek bison oppor-tunity (new)Starting in 2020, the Utah Wildlife Board approved a new bison hunting opportunity for the Nine Mile, Range Creek unit. This unit is extraordinarily rugged and difficult to access. The odds of a successful hunt are low. Hunters who are willing to give up any future opportunities to apply for a bison permit in the big game drawing may purchase an over-the-counter bison hunting permit for this area. There is a mandatory online course before you can purchase a permit. The course explains the access issues in detail and is very direct in describing the challenges of the hunt. For additional details about this hunt and to take the course, visit wildlife.utah.gov/biggame.Permits will be available for purchase starting July 21, 2020. You can buy the permits at wildlife.utah.gov and at license agent loca-tions and Division offices.Important: If you purchase a permit for this hunt, you will forfeit any future op-portunities to apply for a bison permit in the big game drawing. You can, however, continue to purchase this permit annually as long as the permit is offere


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## Brettski7

Critter said:


> It is hard to find but the info for the OTC bison tag is in the 2020 Field Regulations book page 29. Once you purchase the OTC bison tag you and done with bison...
> 
> https://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebook...ns 42,of big game 54 Hunt maps 62 Definitions
> 
> Nine Mile, Range Creek bison oppor-tunity (new)Starting in 2020, the Utah Wildlife Board approved a new bison hunting opportunity for the Nine Mile, Range Creek unit. This unit is extraordinarily rugged and difficult to access. The odds of a successful hunt are low. Hunters who are willing to give up any future opportunities to apply for a bison permit in the big game drawing may purchase an over-the-counter bison hunting permit for this area. There is a mandatory online course before you can purchase a permit. The course explains the access issues in detail and is very direct in describing the challenges of the hunt. For additional details about this hunt and to take the course, visit wildlife.utah.gov/biggame.Permits will be available for purchase starting July 21, 2020. You can buy the permits at wildlife.utah.gov and at license agent loca-tions and Division offices.Important: If you purchase a permit for this hunt, you will forfeit any future op-portunities to apply for a bison permit in the big game drawing. You can, however, continue to purchase this permit annually as long as the permit is offere


Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. That's not the same book I was looking in as the new one I think is 20-2021 and has a white goat on it. Doesn't have it in that one as far as I saw.

I think I'm going to hold off and maybe scout this area to see how bad it really is for access. Maybe next year if it all goes good. I don't mind putting in work. Would maybe be better to do with a few people.

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## Critter

You were looking in the application book. 

I got the information out of the Field Reg book it has a kit and a 2pt buck on it.

There is really no way to actually scout it. You can drive through Nine Mile Canyon from Wellington to Myton which is a fun ride with lots to see. But as the information says access could be real tough.


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## johnnycake

Critter, read the last sentence again. You can keep purchasing the OTC bison permit annually.


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## Critter

johnnycake said:


> Critter, read the last sentence again. You can keep purchasing the OTC bison permit annually.


Reading comprehension isn't my better suit, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night either.

At $2200 I am one and done if I buy one.

I think that a lot who get these tags if any are going to be in for a surprise.

When I worked in Price I used to go out the the ranches in Nine Mile and work on the phone lines but that was over 30 years ago. Since then they have changed a lot. Even when I worked in the oil fields we did a lot of work just north of Nine Mile and right now I don't know if I could even find the correct road to head out that way and down into Sand Wash.


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## archeryobsession




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## archeryobsession

https://dwrapps.utah.gov/wex/dbconnection.jsp?examnbr=511495


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## Critter

After taking the test it will be interesting to see just how many actually purchase the OTC tag for this area.


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## Brettski7

Critter said:


> After taking the test it will be interesting to see just how many actually purchase the OTC tag for this area.


I'm gonna take it and see what's going on and how bad the access it. It said oct1-dec is best time and that may be early enough to still have road access in and then be able to walk. Problem I guess is getting walk-in access from that foundation or something like that.

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## weaversamuel76

The real problem is IF the bison are actually there as this herd does roam long distances. 

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## Brettski7

weaversamuel76 said:


> The real problem is IF the bison are actually there as this herd does roam long distances.
> 
> Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


Isn't that the whole reason for this tag is because it's been pretty consistent that they are there?

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## weaversamuel76

Very limited access to two very small portions of where that herd actually roams. That herd spends extensive time on private lands.

They really want to keep bison out of nine mile and the Utes have historically used a helicopter to hase them in an effort to keep them out. Here's an excerpt from 2017


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## Critter

In reality there is no road access...


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## TrackNBucks

I have been looking into this for a while. I went and scouted the hunt last weekend. It looks like there are two roads in and that is the hunt. The North road is to the gate at the North end of range creek and dead ends. I was surprised there was no recent sign of bison as I know there had been two large bulls living by the parking lot. Then I saw this. https://etvnews.com/range-creek-wandering-bison-causing-concerns/ It looks like the DWR has already gone in and killed the bison in the hunt area.

The other route in is to the south. It is a 2.5 hour drive on a rough road down to the bottom of Turtle creek. One way in, one way out. No side roads and surrounded by wilderness with steep cliffs on both sides. SITLA has installed a metal fence at the end of the road to keep bison out of the area and there is a camp, of who I assume, is the state person who is present to shoot any bison that wander to the fence. You can drive a little ways past the fence, but then the road dead ends 2.5 miles from the end where the BLM decided it was inconvenient for fisherman to access the Green River and be seen by people floating the river looking for a wilderness experience (I got this info from a BLM employee who is bitter about the decision). How is that for multiple use?

Looks like this tag is a total waste of money. I know quite a few people who are planning on buying a tag, but I bet 100 people all park at the end of the road and cuss the DWR together.

All of the hunt info can be found here: https://dwrapps.utah.gov/huntboundary/hbstart?HN=BI6525

The other route is the river. They give 2 permits per day to launch on that section but you will have to really know what you are doing. It is a rugged section of river. I have floated it in late October before, and the rocks are brutal. I contacted the river companies in Moab and they don't offer trips in November and December.


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## Catherder

I still suspect that most of the successful hunts with this tag will take place on the private property by those that get the tag after making arrangements (and paying a hefty price) to get access there. 

It would be interesting to know what the going rate is?


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## Brettski7

So sounds like a DWR attempt at seeming like they are trying to give more opportunity to hunters. 


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## Catherder

Brettski7 said:


> So sounds like a DWR attempt at seeming like they are trying to give more opportunity to hunters.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More the DWR trying/posturing to pressure the tribe to keep their buff out of this area.


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## Critter

My opinion of the hunt is that after the fiasco of 2017 I believe where some hunters threatened to sue the state after the Ute Tribe had used helicopters to herd the bison back across the Green to Tribal lands and the hunters got to hunt in 2018 on their 2017 tag that the DOW had enough. 

It is my understanding that the Ute Tribe said that they were going to build a fence to keep the bison on their side of the river, which was never done I believe. So now the DOW has decided to try and use OTC tags as a way to solve a problem, if there actually was one. 

As they say this is just my opinion...


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## TrackNBucks

Catherder said:


> I still suspect that most of the successful hunts with this tag will take place on the private property by those that get the tag after making arrangements (and paying a hefty price) to get access there.
> 
> It would be interesting to know what the going rate is?


Not much private land for the buffalo to hang out on (This is addressed in the hunt planner). The bottom of Range Creek is DWR property and walk in access only. It is about a ten mile round trip where a few buffalo end up spending their time in winter. Above that is Jensen property. (They own half of the top of Tavaputs Plateau. The other half is owned by Hunt Oil.) They haven't had but a handful of bison make it onto their property and they have been killed by the DWR anyway. No bison have made it to the top of Tavaputs, and they wouldn't be able to get up there in winter anyway. There is one small piece (~100 acres)of private at the bottom of the Range Creek DWR property that blocks access to Range Creek from the South, but the buffalo access is blocked by the metal fence downstream of them anyway.


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## TrackNBucks

Critter said:


> My opinion of the hunt is that after the fiasco of 2017 I believe where some hunters threatened to sue the state after the Ute Tribe had used helicopters to herd the bison back across the Green to Tribal lands and the hunters got to hunt in 2018 on their 2017 tag that the DOW had enough.
> 
> It is my understanding that the Ute Tribe said that they were going to build a fence to keep the bison on their side of the river, which was never done I believe. So now the DOW has decided to try and use OTC tags as a way to solve a problem, if there actually was one.
> 
> As they say this is just my opinion...


Spot on. The DWR had an agreement with the tribe in 2018 that they would remove any bison that wandered across the river, but they weren't able to hold up their end of the bargain. The land is all Wilderness, so it was pretty well doomed from the outset. Now the DWR is fed up and just went and opened season on them knowing a few hardcore hunters will find their way in and shoot enough to scare them back across the river.


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## johnnycake

Having killed a couple of wild bison (and really wanting to kill some more) I can say that this hunt has me very interested, and while it isn't in the cards for 2020, if it is offered again in the next couple of years I will probably give it a go. 

That being said, a couple of things about bison that based on the discussion so far I don't think some of you understand. 1) when bison want to go somewhere, no fence that can be built affordably/practically is going to stop them; and 2) the idea of walking in to the back of the University's property, shooting a bison, and getting it out is a lot bigger of a job than you think--you can't camp out there, no motorized access, only 10 people per day can get in, etc. 

For perspective, my bull last fall chopped up and hanging at the butcher weighed over 800lbs (and that is not counting me keeping the backstraps, tenderloins, a 45lbs bone in neck chunk, and giving away a full shoulder). The head + full hide weighed over 200 lbs. The cleaned skull weighs just over 40lbs. I like to do some pretty extreme/stupid hunting, but I really cannot even imagine having to pack on your back +1000lbs over 10 miles one way.


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## Critter

JC I agree. 

A number of years ago on the last bison hunt that I helped out on down on the Henries my nieces son saw a couple of bull bison on the run coming down a hill. Then he exclaimed "they just ran over that tree" he couldn't believe it. The bison didn't move one side or another but went right over a burned cedar tree. When I looked over you could still see the dust from the roots uprooted. As for a fence, if they can't go over it they will try and go through it. But I would suppose a well built chain link fence would slow them down considerably. 

Also on the size of them, most people have no idea of just how huge they are. When my brother in law shot his my nephew walked over to it and thought that he could grab a horn and pull it sideways for a better picture like you can do with elk and deer. That old bull wouldn't even budge.

Back to the hunt, I looked but didn't find any outfitter with access to some of the areas to hire. But after this season if they continue the hunt there just may be a few.


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## Brettski7

johnnycake said:


> Having killed a couple of wild bison (and really wanting to kill some more) I can say that this hunt has me very interested, and while it isn't in the cards for 2020, if it is offered again in the next couple of years I will probably give it a go.
> 
> That being said, a couple of things about bison that based on the discussion so far I don't think some of you understand. 1) when bison want to go somewhere, no fence that can be built affordably/practically is going to stop them; and 2) the idea of walking in to the back of the University's property, shooting a bison, and getting it out is a lot bigger of a job than you think--you can't camp out there, no motorized access, only 10 people per day can get in, etc.
> 
> For perspective, my bull last fall chopped up and hanging at the butcher weighed over 800lbs (and that is not counting me keeping the backstraps, tenderloins, a 45lbs bone in neck chunk, and giving away a full shoulder). The head + full hide weighed over 200 lbs. The cleaned skull weighs just over 40lbs. I like to do some pretty extreme/stupid hunting, but I really cannot even imagine having to pack on your back +1000lbs over 10 miles one way.


This is why I think maybe try with a few people would be better. Tough to line everything up just right but if it worked out could potentially be an awesome hunt. Idk. Sounds like a lot of work and effort that might not be worth it. Would have to put in time prior to buying a tag for this one and see how practical it is. I don't mind a challenge but sometimes things just aren't worth it.

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## Clarq

Critter said:


> Also on the size of them, most people have no idea of just how huge they are.


Anybody know what a bison calf would weigh in October? I would hands down shoot the smallest calf in the herd if I did that hunt.


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## johnnycake

Clarq said:


> Anybody know what a bison calf would weigh in October? I would hands down shoot the smallest calf in the herd if I did that hunt.


I've shot a 4 ½ year old cow, a 17 ½ year old bull, and picked up a skull from a +13 year old cow. I'm looking for a nice red calf to complete the family portrait.


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## rtockstein

I did some reading on it in the hunt planner and also checked out the access permits through the NHMU. It's totally doable if you have horses or a few friends to help pack it out. I'm actually considering it if I can get the ok from my wife and wrangle a couple of friends to help. 

I took the orientation course so I could see the permit price and if they have a permit limit set. The major problem I can immediately see, is that it the NHMU allows up to 30 day passes per day through there and there doesn't appear to be a permit limit. So, there very well could be a lot of glutton-for-punishment hunters like myself driving those bison to the south end pretty quickly. I reserved some day passes in November through the NHMU just in case I can make it work.

With the information that's given on the hunt planner and the tags only being $415, it really does seem very enticing and like the chance of success might be decent if you can get in there late October just when the bison arrive. BUT, there are no more passes available for late October and only a couple days are left for early November. The days I reserved are all mid-late November. So I think quite a few people already jumped on it!


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## CPAjeff

Clarq said:


> Anybody know what a bison calf would weigh in October? I would hands down shoot the smallest calf in the herd if I did that hunt.


Right around 400 - 450 lbs. Bison calves are born late April/early May and weaned in October - November. As such, you literally might have to wipe the milk off it's lips!

+ a lot of cred points if you get one!


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## Critter

The bison may not get there until December either. 

A bison is the type of animal that does what it wants when it wants to. 

As for the friends helping out, I would make them sign a agreement that if they don't show up when needed that you can smack them with a 2x4. I have had a lot of friends who think these type of things would be fun and helpful, that is until you need to depend on them showing up and then all bets are off.


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## brisket

rtockstein said:


> I did some reading on it in the hunt planner and also checked out the access permits through the NHMU. It's totally doable if you have horses or a few friends to help pack it out. I'm actually considering it if I can get the ok from my wife and wrangle a couple of friends to help.
> 
> I took the orientation course so I could see the permit price and if they have a permit limit set. The major problem I can immediately see, is that it the NHMU allows up to 30 day passes per day through there and there doesn't appear to be a permit limit. So, there very well could be a lot of glutton-for-punishment hunters like myself driving those bison to the south end pretty quickly. I reserved some day passes in November through the NHMU just in case I can make it work.
> 
> With the information that's given on the hunt planner and the tags only being $415, it really does seem very enticing and like the chance of success might be decent if you can get in there late October just when the bison arrive. BUT, there are no more passes available for late October and only a couple days are left for early November. The days I reserved are all mid-late November. So I think quite a few people already jumped on it!


I doubt the bison will even be in there in October, at least in any quantity. Mid to late November and even December will be much better, imo. What are the season dates for the tag?

Also, the bison will be at the end of the property one day, then at the front gate the next. Those suckers travel.


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## Critter

It was a couple of years ago when they moved into Range Creek, a member here had a depredation tag for it and was blocked by snow going in through Colombia and had to go in through the bottom road. This was in January I believe.


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## Brettski7

I’m also wondering if by opening it up this year that the tribe actually works to keep them on their land which may screw the whole thing up anyways. 


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## Critter

Brettski7 said:


> I'm also wondering if by opening it up this year that the tribe actually works to keep them on their land which may screw the whole thing up anyways.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's a very strong possibility.

In 2017 they hazed the bison back onto their land with helicopters which caused a lot of hunters to hunt in 2018 on the same tag that they had as long as they hadn't harvested one.

Here is the post from 12/18 where a lucky hunter got called for a depredation hunt in Range Creek.

https://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/197159-my-surprise-once-lifetime.html


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## rtockstein

brisket said:


> rtockstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did some reading on it in the hunt planner and also checked out the access permits through the NHMU. It's totally doable if you have horses or a few friends to help pack it out. I'm actually considering it if I can get the ok from my wife and wrangle a couple of friends to help.
> 
> I took the orientation course so I could see the permit price and if they have a permit limit set. The major problem I can immediately see, is that it the NHMU allows up to 30 day passes per day through there and there doesn't appear to be a permit limit. So, there very well could be a lot of glutton-for-punishment hunters like myself driving those bison to the south end pretty quickly. I reserved some day passes in November through the NHMU just in case I can make it work.
> 
> With the information that's given on the hunt planner and the tags only being $415, it really does seem very enticing and like the chance of success might be decent if you can get in there late October just when the bison arrive. BUT, there are no more passes available for late October and only a couple days are left for early November. The days I reserved are all mid-late November. So I think quite a few people already jumped on it!
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt the bison will even be in there in October, at least in any quantity. Mid to late November and even December will be much better, imo. What are the season dates for the tag?
> 
> Also, the bison will be at the end of the property one day, then at the front gate the next. Those suckers travel.
Click to expand...

Aug1 - jan31

The NHMU only gives out permits through nov30, so I'm not sure how a person would tackle it if they were going to go in December or January


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## johnnycake

I really want to try to figure out the float to Desolation Canyon. That would be a truly epic calf hunt.


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## rtockstein

johnnycake said:


> I really want to try to figure out the float to Desolation Canyon. That would be a truly epic calf hunt.


Agreed!! My wife is a water lover and used to do some scary kayaking and rafting. I tried to sell her on it with doing the "float of her life". Where exactly is the swasey bench pullout that's mentioned in the hunt description?


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## middlefork

rtockstein said:


> Agreed!! My wife is a water lover and used to do some scary kayaking and rafting. I tried to sell her on it with doing the "float of her life". Where exactly is the swasey bench pullout that's mentioned in the hunt description?


It is the normal pull out for any Desolation trip. Up river from Green river. I don't remember the mileage.

That time of year I can't imagine any major problems for anybody used to running white water. If you can run section one below Flaming Gorge you shouldn't have any problem Desolation.


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## AF CYN

Man, I seriously hope you pull this off! Huge cred if you do. This hunt would have it all--cognitive strategy, physically tough, luck, and everything else an epic adventure entails. Good luck!


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## Critter

From what I understand the problem would be low water levels and not the higher ones. 

I used to know river runners in Green River but they are long gone now. I would check to see if there are any outfitters in Vernal or Moab that offer that stretch at that time of year.


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## MooseMeat

I’m just really excited for all the social media posts from guys pizzed that they got this tag and it’s almost impossible for most of the tag holders to find decent success. 

I was in until I figured out it would be illegal for me to use my motorized duck boat to access the area. Hard pass after that idea was shot down.


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## Critter

rtockstein said:


> Where exactly is the swasey bench pullout that's mentioned in the hunt description?


It's about 9 miles north of the highway on the east side of the river


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## rtockstein

MooseMeat said:


> I'm just really excited for all the social media posts from guys pizzed that they got this tag and it's almost impossible for most of the tag holders to find decent success.
> 
> I was in until I figured out it would be illegal for me to use my motorized duck boat to access the area. Hard pass after that idea was shot down.


I had that same idea, even though I don't have a duck boat. I'm also excited to hear some stories.

My consideration of buying the tag is with full knowledge that I could probably attempt it 5 years in a row and come up empty-handed. BUT, since I have 2 bison points and I may move out of state in 6 years, my chances of drawing a bison tag as a resident are practically zilch. I'd rather have a few great adventures where I got to hunt bison and not actually get one rather than wait and hope to draw a tag.


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