# Whitetails in Utah?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Herd people have been seeing Whitetails in Utah have you ever seen one or anyone you know seen one is it a true fact that they are here? Another question do you think Whitetails moving in Mule Deer country will hurt there winter range because Whitetails are low vally whilte Mulies are usually high? Also if you had to choose between one or the other would you choose the natural muley of the area or the new comer the whitetail? Please give your opinion on this subject.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Whats the story behind the pic of that whitetail?? I know there was a picture of one on salty's website that someone shot in northern utah. I still say we need to keep whitetails out. We have enough problems with the mule deer herd already, especially north, where the whitetails are usually showing up.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Not exactly sure what the story is behind that whitetail he wasn't shot in Utah though.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't think I have seen a "real" whitetail in Utah, but I'm convinced I have seen two different bucks that were of whitetail decent. At least the racks looked "whitetailish", while the bodies were big and muley looking.
Someone on the DWR forum said that the two different animals will mate, mostly the buck whitetail with the doe muley and the offspring are sterile. I can't find any scientific stuff on that.
At any rate, we had a Wyoming F&G guy tell us the whitetails are moving into Utah at a pretty good rate. Again, I'm not sure it will be a good thing or bad, I just know they are coming and there isn't anything we can do about that!


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

Keep em' out...... Won't happen completely but hopefully if given the chance the deer hunters are filling their tags with whities.


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## Hardwater (Sep 14, 2007)

You mean I could finally practice all of the preach that the national magazines, (Outdoor Life, Field and Stream), give in *every* magazine about hunting whitetails? Rubs, scrapes, tree stands, rubber scent-free boots, wee-willie-wickie scent wicks, buck bombs, doe bleats, grunt tubes, rattlin' antlers, doe in estrus, buck urine, tree stands over soy bean field, mandatory doe kill to earn a buck kill, whitetails are soooo much smarter than dumb mulies, etc??? Hooray!!! *()*

Realistically, given the over population problems with whitetails in other parts of the country, I'm not quite sure Utah is ready for whitetails. I would hate to see mule deer displaced by whitetails. It would sure be interesting to see what would happen if humans did not interfere and let nature take its course.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not a fan of allowing them to move in, but what can you do about it. It is going to happen one way or another, its like in Jurrasic Park, nature will find a way. I think the DWR should start doing something about it right now, like if a hunter shoots a whitetail, the hunter should be able to bring the animal with antlers to the DWR and they could issue them a new tag for Muley. I think this could help solve part of the problem. But I think it is inevitable that they will hurt the Muley population because Whitetails are prolific reproducers.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

In all reality, Utah is the ONLY mountain state that doesn't have significant whitetail populations. I don't see them as displacing mule deer. People are displacing mule deer. And whitetail get along better in the types of habitats that remain. Whitetail venison tastes better, and they are a very worthy opponent in the hunting game. I've hunted in states in areas where the herds overlap habitats. I've seen whitetails and mule deer running in the same herd. And in these same areas, I've seen more trophey-class mule deer bucks than any other place I've ever hunted. To assert that whitetail expansion into Utah will ruin the mule deer herds, is like saying that since the dodge dealership opened up, I won't be able to buy a chevy or ford anymore.


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

pardone me if i am not reading something here. but what is the poll question is it which we would rather take or if we have seen a whitetail in Utah? i would take the muley over a whitetail anyday call me sentimental but they are just sooooo much smarter and cooler than the whitetails. anyone can watch a ****** and figure out exactly where and when they will be at a particular place they follow patterns. while the mulies are much harder to pattern they might end up in the same place to feed but they will take different routes to get there.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

The wife and i ahve seen a couple whitetails in utah. not in the northen area eather. We dont need are mulieys fighting for food with the whitetails.the muileys are all ready hurting from the winters.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Since Whitetails are not protected in Utah couldn't you just shoot them and not fill your tag and just shoot one or would that still be against the law.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Utah does not differentiate whitetail deer from mule deer. The same rules apply. You may lawfully take/tag one during season as outlined, but anything outside of that would be poaching.

Aside from that, I don't understand the hostility towards whitetails. Aside from just personal preference, like a guy liking brunette women more than say, blondes. As they co-exist in every other state around us, and live together quite happily, I don't see the threat. I'm cool if you just would rather hunt mule deer than whitetail deer. I get that part. But really - why all the hostility towards another type of hunting opportunity?


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

No they are considered a deer.

A better qestion. How many would shoot a white tail if they saw one during their hunt???
Say a 8 pointer was standing with a three point muley, which one would you shoot?


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

i am in no way a whitetail fan. but if there was a ****** standing next to a 3 point muley i would shoot the ******. only becaue i would want the muley to have a chance to get bigger. 

i know eastern whitetails taste like beef but i have never had a western one. do they taste the same as their eastern brothern?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Once you eat whitetail venison, you'll spit out mule deer venison.


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

i have had whitetail and yes they do taste very good. but i like the taste of my beloved muley just as well. the best tasting stuff is antelope anyways.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

In my opinion whitetails are dumb, I have never had them but if they taste better its because there not a true deer and let the farmers feed them instead of feeding themselves, kinda like a cow running to get its hay. I think they would hurt the mule deer here we are a desert and lately its really been showing everythings burning up and drying out. With whitetails and how their herd grows fast whats will happen when the natural muley herd comes off the mountain to spend a hard winter eating sage brush and stuff and they have more competition than just people moving into there territory but now a new type of competeter who competes for the same things they do. About the smarts of a whitetail which feels like you've get the most success out of a OIL mule deer or a big whitetail buck. Whitetails come in to grunts, scents, rattling antlers, follow the exact same path every day, are easier to figure out, come into foods like c'mere deer, let the farmers feed them, and are all around just not as wise as an old muley buck. I don't know of many mulies that fall for tricks at all. I have tried doe scent and all the works trying to get anything to come in it dosen't happen with muleys, but whitetails come runnin the second you pick up your call. Now obviously you know which buck i'm leaning twards but I feel like the mule deer is more special than any whitetail and to rid even if just a few more a year because of a different breed is a disgrace. If whitetails were ment to be here they would have been here, the west is muley country lets keep it that way, go east to kill you a whitetail.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

they are here already and other than taking one when you get the chance nothing is going to change that if they will co-habitate that would be great as the do in all the other states
that have both but i do prefer our mulies as far as taste i have hunted whiteys in montana
whyoming and alberta and i must admit they do have a more delecate flavor but i m sure as heck not going to spit out mulie venision either and while i do not see much of a chanch of the getting out here in the desert were i live the more agricultural areas will in time see more and more of them.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Once you eat whitetail venison, you'll spit out mule deer venison.


Whitetail is better table fare than mule deer IMO. But both pale in comparison to Axis deer.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I believe I read once that Utah was the only continental state that did not have the whiteys?? I like that claim, would be nice to keep it that way, not a big deal.

If the question is which of the two bucks I would shoot given the opportunity from the pics above, I would say the muley hands down is a much better looking trophy. I guess if I already had numerous muleys the ****** would be a nice unique trophy for here.


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## SFWG (Sep 8, 2007)

I personally will like having them here. I would rather hunt them to tell you the truth.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

fatbass said:


> I've had mild and strong whitetail and mild and strong mulie (lots of both). I still think field prep is the strongest factor in determining flavor.


Yes, but all my deer a field prepped to perfection!  :mrgreen: *()* :wink:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

1-I - have you ever hunted whitetail? Or are you basing this on what you read in hunting magazines and see in hunting shows where they shoot them out of enclosed stands over bait. If you have hunted wild white tail and have the opinion that they are easy to hunt, then so be it. But if you are basing it on magazines and hunting shows, there is no credibility there. 

It has been my EXPERIENCE that whitetail be have VERY differently under pressure - both short term and long term. When spooked, mule deer will run a hundred yards and stop and turn around and look at you. Whitetail when spooked don't stop. They keep running and running and running. Hunting a quality, wild whitetail on public lands is as hard a hunt as hunting quality, wild mule deer or elk. 

The thing I find interesting in Utah, is that the people I hear in biggest opposition to whitetail, have never hunted them.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> The thing I find interesting in Utah, is that the people I hear in biggest opposition to whitetail, have never hunted them.


Fish,
Are you trying to take away our right of passing down our forefathers' unfounded, exaggerated fear of the whitetail taking over our muleys?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > The thing I find interesting in Utah, is that the people I hear in biggest opposition to whitetail, have never hunted them.
> ...


There are ample examples of whitetails having negative effects on mule deer populations. Many biologists have written about the numerous reasons why. I wouldn't consider that "unfounded, exaggerated fear", I would consider that as dang good reason to oppose the intentional introduction of whiteys into Utah, where mu;leys are already struggling.

PRO


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Whitetails may well be in some areas of Utah. Garyfish is correct when he says that Whitetails are not as easy a hunt as you see on the TV. Most of those films are more or less a canned hunt scenaro. Many are on large ranches where the herd is managed and fed year around. Many are on areas that have been fenced with 14' high fences and herd is captive and fed year around. Hunting a true "wild" Whitetail buck is challenging to say to least. The Whitetail deer are expanding their range as they are a very adaptive animal. In many areas they have overpopulated the suburbs and parks due to hunting restrictions. I feel it will only be a matter of time until the Whitetails expand into Utah. We can only hope that the "feral" hog will not expand into Utah as it has in many parts of the United States.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

> oppose the intentional introduction of whiteys


Pro - that I am in total agreement. I don't think they need to be introduced. But the natural migration of them into areas where there is suitable habitat seems OK with me. I look at the Cache Valley and the development happening there. Human development is taking out mule deer habitats faster than we can shake a stick at it. The kind of fragmentation that is happening is horrible to the mule deer. On the flip side, whitetail do well in those kind of habitats. So as one hunting opportunity is getting kocked out, another is becoming available. It is not the whitetail that are pushing the mule deer out though. It is human development of five acres with an SUV, dog and a double wide that is pushing them out.

On the biologists' side of things, I've read several "scientific articles" on both sides - that whitetail and mule deer cannot co-exist, and articles that say the can co-exist. And I gotta say that of those I've read for both sides, it appeared to me that the biologists had an opinion, and found the "facts" to support their opinion, leaving me without much help. So of that, I'm left to fall back on my own experiences hunting in Montana and Western Nebraska, where both species do very well, and do very well together. I think there are many areas of Utah that cannot support any increase in number of grazing animals without something giving way in the system. But I also think there are many areas where both species can do very well - where the system can support more grazing animals, and I'd rather those be whitetail deer than sheep or cows.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Never have hunted whitetails personally but know someone who has, and they said quote, "there just not the same in brains as a mule deer," and as for mule deer turning back how many giant muleys have you jumped in your day, how many giants have turned around and stared you back in the face. A big muley buck takes off and dosent stop there is an old saying "He didn't get big by being stupid" obviously he didn't turn around the year before or the year before that, and he isn't going to turn around for you. Also how many big muley bucks have you come across, how many big whitetails do you see killed? Muleys hide better and don't show themselves unless they absoulutly have to. In my opinion the old muley has the brains and the whitetail has the numbers.


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## duck jerky (Sep 8, 2007)

I've seen one in cache valley couple years back while pheasant hunting a doe big white tail.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

GaryFish wrote:


> But I also think there are many areas where both species can do very well - where the system can support more grazing animals, and* I'd rather those be whitetail deer than sheep or cows*.


I would rather those be more *MULE DEER* or elk. But, thats just me.

FatBass, I agree with a young mule deer buck being fairly dumb, but a mature muley buck is atleast as difficult to kill as ANY whitetail buck. Most 'experts' say a 200" muley buck is the most difficult trophy in N America to take.

PRO


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Simple question Pro. Have you ever hunted whitetail?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Nope. But, I haven't hunted impalas either.  I don't see the need for either to be in Utah when our mule deer are struggling. 

PRO


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

> but a mature muley buck is atleast as difficult to kill as ANY whitetail buck. Most 'experts' say a 200" muley buck is the most difficult trophy in N America to take.


I put a ton of credibility in many of your posts Pro when it comes to hunting mule deer and elk. I have always enjoyed your point of view on habitat as key, and how that relates to the central survivability of our game species. But dogging on white tail hunting when you haven't done it is a bit off I think. I'm not saying they are better to hunt, or worse to hunt, but hunting a mature, wild, trophy whitetail is as difficult as hunting a mature, wild trophy mule deer or elk. The challenge is certainly as noble, yet different because of the habitats each animal enjoys. I've heard experts talk about 400" elk as most difficult. Or full-curl mountain bighorn as most difficult. Or 200" mule deer as most difficult. But I think that mature trophy animals of any species are difficult in their own ways - because none of them get that big by being stupid. But give whitetail hunting a try sometime if you can. I think you will find it very challenging, and subsequently, very rewarding.

I think our deer herds are suffering in Utah for a variety of reasons though. Some are 150 years deep, as the sage communities took over the grasses after some decades of obscene over-grazing. As those sage communities climaxed, deer herds did exceptionally well. We are now at large scale sage steppe die-off due to lack of lots of things, and that is hurting the mule deer. Habitats are changing. As they change, other animals can thrive where the mule deer struggle. I would agree that it would be great to keep things good for the mule deer - but I don't know if that is feasible at this point in many areas. If habitats continue to change though, I'd rather see other hunting opportunities develop (again, over decades of subtle and not-so-subtle changes) than the opportunities we have go away. But I don't see things as choosing white tail deer over mule deer, or vice-versa. I've seen too many places where both species do very well together. It is not an either/or proposition.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

GaryFish wrote:


> But dogging on white tail hunting when you haven't done it is a bit off I think


.

When did I "dog" whitetail hunting? I merely stated that many of the 'trophy hunters' out there that have persued BOTH species say killing a book mule deer is more difficult than killing a book whitetail. If whitetails are so dang smart and difficult to kill, how is it in states like Alabama a hunter can kill 30 deer, and many are able to do so? How hard can it be?

FatBass asked:


> How many whitetails have you killed, Pro?


The exact same number as 200 inch mule deer you have killed.  I haven't ever killed a caribou, but I have no doubt they are not smarter than a 6+ yr old mule deer, so what is your point?

We have gotten of subject here a bit, which is: do we want whitetails in Utah competing with mule deer, that are already struggling? I say no, regardless of which species is 'smarter'. I don't want wolves( Ihear they are fairly smart as well) and I don't want whitetails in Utah. Call me narrow-minded on the subjects, but it is how I strongly feel.

PRO


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I would consider that as dang good reason to oppose the intentional introduction of whiteys into Utah, where muleys are already struggling.


That is news to me! Is there an "intentional introduction" or are you simply stating that you would be in opposition if there was an "intentional introduction?" My understanding is that the few whiteys that are here is by natural migration, correct?

I do not feel strongly either way as there does not appear to be overwhelming evidence that they can not co-exist w/o major damage to the muley population. However, I think the muley is a much more unique opportunity to hunt as one can go to basically any of the other 47 continental states to hunt the ******. If there is evidence of the ****** having an adverse affect on the muley here; count me in as anti ******--affirmative action, if you will.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > I would consider that as dang good reason to oppose the intentional introduction of whiteys into Utah, where muleys are already struggling.
> ...


I was simply stating I would be opposed to an intentional introduction or an intentional 'allowance' of whitetails 'taking' over Utah in large numbers. There IS evidence of whiteys having adverse effects on mule deer populations, the reasons are many, the biggest being the whiteys more aggresive nature. This increases the odds of a ****** buck breeding a muley doe, which results in a hybrid which is sterile, thus lowering the number of new muleys being recruited into the herd the following year, which reduces the overall popualtion of muleys in an area 'shared' with whiteys. A muley buck is less likely to breed a ****** doe, and whiteys are more likely to have twins, which compounds the problem. Then IF whiteys truly are harder to kill, more whiteys will survive each year. Add all this up, and it allows the ****** to 'take over' a given area.

I like the comment, I can always go to 47 states to hunt whiteys, how many states can you go to to hunt muleys? And, out of those states that offer mule deer hunting, how many of them have herds struggling? Why on earth would we want to INTENTIONALLY give the muleys one more HUGE hurdle to get over? :?

PRO


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Fatbass,
I can not say your name w/o laughing! How many can you harvest/year in AL? Friends from West Virginia told me the other day that they are limited to 6! That is hard to believe! How do you even do that? I am guessing that it is in different seasons??? Do you just shoot them and then use the dead one stood up as a decoy for the next 5? That would definitely be a much different experience. Sounds more like waterfowl hunting with a lot more work to do at the end of the day.


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## Elk Addict (Sep 17, 2007)

The thing that most people on here fail to realize is the whitetails are coming into Utah on their own. They aren't being "intentionally introduced" and there is really nothing that any of us can do about it. I have read whitetails will out compete mule deer and breed all of the does with sterile off-spring. I have seen mulies with whitetail traits, such as antlers that closely resembled a whitetail, but IMO this is the exception rather than the rule. Having grown up in Montana and having the opportunity to hunt both whitetails and mulies, I would have to say there are areas where they co-exist very nicely, but for the most part they inhabit different habitat. The whitetail will eventually establish themselves in Utah and there will be areas where they live together in harmony. Mule deer need to worry much more about the encroachment of man than they do about their whitetailed cousin...


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

FatBass wrote:


> For the record- Utah is muley country and we should do what we can to keep it that way. When I want to kill a whitetail, I'll visit my family in sweet home Alabama. Wanna go?


Heck ya! I just put two full elk in my deep freezer this morning, but I am sure I can make room for some ****** steaks. Let's do it!

PRO


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> I just put two full elk in my deep freezer this morning,


Where did you get that from? Thought you did not draw a tag. espiclly 2 tags. *()*


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby, one of the perks of guiding out-of-state hunters is they usually donate the meat to the 'poor' guide. :mrgreen: 

Half the time, they even pay for the processing of the meat! Two big bulls, lots of backstrap steaks, tenderloin steaks, roasts, sausage, and jerky! Knowing I get the venision helps motivate me to make sure they kill. 8) 

PRO


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

That's awesome Pro. Well done on the hunts. And good for you getting the freezer filled. Very good.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> That's awesome Pro. Well done on the hunts. And good for you getting the freezer filled. Very good.


Thank you. I would do this stuff for nothing, but since people are willing to pay me AND donate the venision for my family, I feel very blessed.

PRO


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I guess the question has twist turned to Which is smarter? well lets ask that question and these questions: Which is smarter?, Which is tougher to get to?, Which do you see less killed of?, Which is a tougher or weeker all around deer?.

Let me give my opinion, whitetails are tempted and can be tempted very easily I have put doe scent in the dead of the rut and have not seen one muley walk by and give it a second thought, whitetails you can even use decoys on only something with a brain as small as a goose or duck is attracted to a giant peice of plastic sitting in afield. The muley is much smarter and you say they can't move as swift the whitetails are on fairly level ground muleys are in the hills in tougher terain. Muleys don't run to decoys, scents, or food plots they survive on there own and feed themselves in the wild not eating alfalfa hay for there entire life. I guess I would have to say the muley is smarter not just because of his brains but he lives in a habitat where he knows he's tough to get to. Muleys are tougher IMO because they live in terain where many whitetail would fall to fait.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Okay Bass, I get your point, but come on now......are you saying no whiteys get killed from road hunters, that no whiteys get killed outside of the rut, that since we hunt the Wasatch during the rut *every* year the muleys will soon be gone from the area? 8)

I truly could care less which is smarter or harder to hunt, I just don't want whiteys here in mass, plain and simple. If I want to kill rabbits, er I mean whiteys I'll hook up with FB and go to BAMA, if he can throw in a Tide game while we are there, even better.

PRO


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Remember Pro If your freezer ever gets to full, mines empty. :x

I'll even show you your favorite picture. for a Bribe :wink: :wink: *()*










How about 1 more Mr. Outdoors


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## Camrat85 (Sep 16, 2007)

*Solutions to: Whitetails in Utah?*

With all of that out of the way (hopefully)...

What would be in the best interest of Utah to keep from being eventually overran with white tails?

Maybe as the problem worsens, an extra tag or two limited to white tails only? or if the problem never really surfaces as we fear it will then normal bag limits. Personally I wouldn't mind an extra deer in the freezer no matter the species and the extra time in the field would be a bonus.

Your thoughts?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

1-I - quick question. Have you ever hunted whitetail deer?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Remember Pro If your freezer ever gets to full, mines empty. :x
> 
> I'll even show you your favorite picture. for a Bribe :wink: :wink: *()*
> 
> ...


*Pro*.....please pay fixed blade the Bribe...so we don't *have* to see anymore of his pic's? I think he needs a little *help !!!!*


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> Pro.....please pay fixed blade the Bribe...so we don't have to see anymore of his pic's? I think he needs a little help !!!!


 If he promises to NEVER post such pictures EVER again, I will "pay the bribe" Friday, but then .45 and the rest of you all owe me for having to put up with him for an evening. Luckily, his wife has much more class, although see has poor judgement for a husband. :mrgreen:

PRO


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Name your price !!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## SFWG (Sep 8, 2007)

Whitetails will be here no matter what we do. They are much more adaptable than mulies and this is why they will reign.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2007)

I have seen a couple of whitetail does on my family's farm near Tremonton. I am positive they were whitetails because the "white flag" was clearly visible as they ran away. It doesn't surprise me that a few would follow the riparian and agricultural corridors that extend into Utah from bordering states where whitetails are known to occur like Idaho and Wyoming. There are probably a few in Box Elder, Cache and Rich counties where this type of habitat is common. I have even heard of sightings as far south as Emery Country. I don't see them ever "taking over" the whole state, though, as some fear. Mule deer and whitetail deer have evolved together and coexisted throughout the west for thousands of years and the reason mule deer have thrived in Utah and whitetails have not is that it just isn't suitable habitat for them. Whitetails just aren't evolved to thrive in the "high and dry" environment common in most of the state. If it was suitable for them they would have colonized it long before Europeans started showing up. So while we may see the occasional whitetail showing up in northern and eastern parts of the state I don't think they will ever be widespread or threaten the mule deer population unless humans intentionally introduce them, and even then I don't think they would fare well except in agricultural areas, basically the same areas you would expect to see pheasants.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

Maybe I'm not remembering this correctly, but didn't they do a story on Doug Miller a few years back, maybe 2003? about a confirmed whitetail having been harvested near Tony Grove?


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

.45 Did I catch you right. You want me to post some pictures. Cuz if you do I have one I think you're really going to like. |-O-|


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> .45 Did I catch you right. You want me to post some pictures. Cuz if you do I have one I think you're really going to like. |-O-|


Lets see it..... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Desperado (Sep 27, 2007)

I'd love to have whitetails here, but only if it didn't hurt the muley population any further. There is potential for less clashing in the hills amongst hunters. The people that just want to shoot a deer, but size doesn't matter, can shoot the whiteys. The people that want a trophy muley won't have to complain so much about the pumpkin patch on opening weekend.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I still think that in our desert habitat we don't need another deer species competing with the one that is already here in struggling, someone once said to me


> If humans are so smart, why are they the only thing that destroys their own habitat.


 I have thought about this and decided animals aren't the problem, we are, the only reason the whitetails might have effect on mule deer here is because of us they'll have second hand effection meaning, we put houses there the whitetails eat what they have to survive and the mule deer have the last of it all when they come down for the harsh winter, I have posted this little thing before on the dwr forum sit but it fits here to:



> ONE DAY AS I SAT HIGH IN THE HILLS
> ALL WAS SO QUIET AND PEACEFUL AND STILL.
> I WAS VIEWING THE BEAUTY WE ALL LOVE SO DEAR.
> I KNEW I WAS ALL ALONE-AND YET I FELT SOMEONE NEAR.
> ...


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

Great post 1-I. I know i've given you some crap in the past, but you're allright.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

fatbass said:


> Good post, #1DEER 1-I . Utah doesn't need anything else competing with our muleys.


AMEN!

PRO


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

I've seen whitetails up by christmas meadows and mirrror lake......just last week I saw a dead on in Bountiful that someone had hit that morning with a car....I even got out of my car to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing......They are here and they aren't going away....there are states that have them both living together (mulies and whities)....I don't see how this would be a huge problem here...just more hunting opportunities.


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## omegaman (Sep 20, 2007)

I am not sure how I feel about ******'s comming into Utah, all I know is that I lived in Alberta for a couple years, and I lived in a small town called Slave Lake for a few months. I wasn't able to do any hunting there but I did get to talk to alot of people who did. And they said that 20 years ago up there all they had was Mulies, and as years went on the whitetails started making their way up from the south. And now most of the deer are whitetails, they just took over they said. Because like has been mentioned, mule deer does are not as agressive as the whitetails, so they are easy targets. Like I said everyone kills whitetails every year, and mulie's are a speacial draw. The whitetails just took over.
So there is an example of what can happen when whitetails move in. Now I realized the climate and habitat or a bit different here then it is there, but as Whitetails are very adaptable I can forsee similar results happeneing here in our great state. This would be a trajedy in my eyes, if this were to happen.
There was a family up there that I knew really well and on his wall there was probably 30 whitetail racks, some that were really nice, and only two mulie racks. 
Personally I think the mule deer is a much more majestic and desirable trophy and I would hate to see them desplaced by whitetails. Will this happen? I dont know, but here is an example of what can happen.


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