# Archery hunt this year stinks



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think the hunt starting a week early than ussual and deer/elk opening the same day screwed everyone. % down across the board. Big bull % way down, spike, deer, etc. Our current plan is a rifle hunters dream. We really should change the dates back ASAP! Also try and start the hunts as late as possible, I would not even mind after Labor Day. There are a lot of "I's" in this and IMO this was the worse year for elk and deer hunting that I can ever remember, not by a little, by a lot.  Also get the LE rifle elk out of the rut! Plenty of bulls, and YES there will be a bunch go to waste and die of old age this winter. It may be time to start up the ol' I400 talk again, thoughts???

HOGAN


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

wheres the popcorn?

couldnt agree more about the rifle hunt being in the rut. kinda crazy how it is set up now if you ask me. but im sure there are some "experts" on here that think otherwise...........


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## Bow Mama (May 1, 2008)

HOGAN said:


> I think the hunt starting a week early than ussual and deer/elk opening the same day screwed everyone. % down across the board. Big bull % way down, spike, deer, etc. Our current plan is a rifle hunters dream. We really should change the dates back ASAP! Also try and start the hunts as late as possible, I would not even mind after Labor Day. There are a lot of "I's" in this and IMO this was the worse year for elk and deer hunting that I can ever remember, not by a little, by a lot. Also get the LE rifle elk out of the rut! Plenty of bulls, and YES there will be a bunch go to waste and die of old age this winter. It may be time to start up the ol' I400 talk again, thoughts???
> 
> HOGAN


+1


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

You will NEVER get the rifel hunt for Elk out of the rut.... The F&G get there "best numbers" from the gun hunt. IMO the F&G could care less about the Animals. They want numbers. So good luck in getting any attention toward the Archery Hunt.

Look at the department...."Fish & Game" What do they care about the most? FISH my young Patowone, Fish :roll:


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Quit whining! You have the option to go and shoot a trophy buck during the rutt on the Wasatch front. 
Sure the archery elk kinda sucks, but you can always go and put a stalk on a trophy deer on the front. Just hunt archery deer and rife/muzzy elk and you will be fine.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Not to try and sound like a positive person in such a negative world but let me just try and look at it from the "bad guys" side. The fish and game have many hunts that they need to install into a few months. They try to not overlap each other so as to not have the archery hunters complaining that there are muzzle loaders hunting at the same time and elk hunters interfering with deer etc... They have a structure that is set up from year to year like a certain hunt will always begin on the 3rd weekend of the month. Sometimes that third weekend is on the 15th and sometimes it is on the 21st. That makes it seem like it's a week too early or too late. It is called structure. It doesn't mean that they don't care about animals. 

Some states have their opening on a certain day such as the 5th of October and it doesn't matter what day of the week that falls on. 

There is always something that will make some happy and some angry. That is how Utah does it. If we were to use another states system, some would become outraged. 

I for one forget about those things. This years Elk rut has been behind a bit. I should only put in for a bonus point on a year like this and put in for tags when the calender fits the rut more closely. 

I hope this helps.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> Not to try and sound like a positive person in such a negative world but let me just try and look at it from the "bad guys" side. The fish and game have many hunts that they need to install into a few months. They try to not overlap each other so as to not have the archery hunters complaining that there are muzzle loaders hunting at the same time and elk hunters interfering with deer etc... They have a structure that is set up from year to year like a certain hunt will always begin on the 3rd weekend of the month. Sometimes that third weekend is on the 15th and sometimes it is on the 21st. That makes it seem like it's a week too early or too late. It is called structure. It doesn't mean that they don't care about animals.
> 
> Some states have their opening on a certain day such as the 5th of October and it doesn't matter what day of the week that falls on.
> 
> ...


+1

I thought this year was a great elk hunt. We went 4 for 4. What about you wapiti67?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I feel better already Scott, Thanks!

Hogan, it will and always has been a rifle hunters state. The archey hunts have been getting the short end of the stick forever. Numbers, stats, and $$$$ THAT is what drives the rule making. Archery hunting can provide all but three of those key factors. It's only gonna get worse. State wide archery will be a thing of the past, and if you want to kill a bull in the rut you'll need to go to another state. Pick any of them, they ALL have liberal archery hunts during the rut. Utard is the only state that doesn't. But hey, *"We kill more 400 bulls than any state"* Woo Hoo! Bulls killed mostly with RIFLES and by folks who win the lottery and draw a _"once in a lifetime"_ tag. But hey, 400 bulls are where the $$$$$$ is. Just ask Doyal Moss or Don PAY.

Ya Tree, we had a great elk hunt too. Fortunately for us we've learned to adapt to retarded elk archery seasons and have learned to kill spikes and cows over water out of a treestand. _(O)_

Ok, now I feel WAY better! :|


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Elk22, good post.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

I had a great hunt this year. I just think people thought that it was going to be a lot better than it ended up being. It was a tough hunt but it is most of the time with a bow. The rut started off a little slow but was going pretty hard the last week of the hunt where I was. I spoke with an outfitter that I know and he said the hunting really didn't get any better after the 12th of Sept in the same area that I hunted elk. I'll tell you what though it was nice having the season open for almost a month and I'd much rather hunt the beginning of the rut then the end. Who knows next year could be a different story.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> I think the hunt starting a week early than ussual and deer/elk opening the same day screwed everyone. % down across the board. Big bull % way down, spike, deer, etc. Our current plan is a rifle hunters dream. We really should change the dates back ASAP! Also try and start the hunts as late as possible, I would not even mind after Labor Day. There are a lot of "I's" in this and IMO this was the worse year for elk and deer hunting that I can ever remember, not by a little, by a lot. Also get the LE rifle elk out of the rut! Plenty of bulls, and YES there will be a bunch go to waste and die of old age this winter. It may be time to start up the ol' I400 talk again, thoughts???


Here's my thoughts:

1)I have been thanked by NUMEROUS hunters who drew a LE tag on spike units for having five days w/o spike hunters chasing the elk. That makes the hunt a better experience for those who have been waiting 5-15 years to draw a tag. And now, I hear a group that is supposed to be representing ALL bow hunters saying they will push to undo this GOOD change. :?

2)If LE success is down as well as spike elk and deer, shouldn't that PROVE that the lower success rates are NOT related to the elk and deer hunts opening on the same day? Even the rifle LE guys are having a tough time putting bulls on the ground. The bulls are there, but they haven't been as vocal/visible as 'normal'. That has more to do with the weather than anything.

3)I am all for moving the end of the archery hunt as late into September as possible. In fact, UBA is drafting a proposal that will have the archery hunt end on the same day every year instead of varying year to year. Something like the 17th of September. That would keep the hunt ending so early like this year and it is even worse for next year, the hunt ends on the 11th.

4)I am 100% in favor of getting I400 up and going, time for talk is over. So, lets get on it!


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> Here's my thoughts:
> 
> 1)I have been thanked by NUMEROUS hunters who drew a LE tag on spike units for having five days w/o spike hunters chasing the elk. That makes the hunt a better experience for those who have been waiting 5-15 years to draw a tag. And now, I hear a group that is supposed to be representing ALL bow hunters saying they will push to undo this GOOD change.
> 
> ...


1. Thank you for that change. I loved having the opening days the same and I loved haveing week to my self. I did not take a bull but it was not due to this change.

2. The bulls where there. I have seen the proof that the bulls where in my LE unit. I just did not get it done. I can blame it on the weather, moon, the date changes, but they are just excuses for me not getting it done.

3. Sounds good.

4. I can not belive I am saying this but bring on I400. :shock:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> I can not believe I am saying this but bring on I400. :shock:


 *OOO* -/O\-


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Having the first 5 days to yourself would be much more benefcial. Before the heards get spooked and before the weekend warrior educates the elk with a hoochie mama. I am aware of "overlapping" but it can be done. starting with getting the rifle hunt out of the rut, issue more tags, it can and should be done. Whining? No just stating the facts.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Let me get this straight; hunting spikes from August 16th through August 20th was the cause of a supposed decline in spike hunter success, but having the LE *MATURE* bull hunters hunt then would be an 'advantage'. Are you serious?

Like I have said NUMEROUS times, I am all for moving the rifle hunt out of September, but getting it down is the million dollar question. I think I400 is a good 'compromise', but I doubt we will ever see the rifle hunt removed from September across the board.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

On a normal year yes, I really think that it would benefit the LE hunters. I also think it helps kill % for archers having the deer open on Sat and the elk thursday for overcrowding alone. Like I said IMO opening both deer and elk on Sat. early is a joke and we as archers are shooting ourselves in the foot.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Hows does giving LE hunters FIVE MORE days hurt their success rate? How does giving them the last five days w/o spike hunters hurt their success rate? Truth is, it does NOT!

Now, how many archers that have a deer tag don't hunt elk? I would say it is fairly low. Now, how many of those who bought an archery elk tag did so because the deer tags were sold out? So, I ask again, is this about archers as a whole, or is it about a few vocal complainers? Just as IS the case with the supposed over-crowding 'issue' in the southern region. Don't fall for the deliberate diversion by those wanting to have 'their' region all to themselves. Blaming the elk opener starting on the same day as the deer is a red herring and is based on hearsay and no facts.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

I am not saying not to give them 5 extra days. Open the LE the same time as deer, there is their 5 extra days, they get to hunt the elk before they are educated and spooked. Open the spike on Thursday like it used to be. Having the 5 days at the end only benefits open bull areas, but for the majority of hunters it hurts their chances.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Yeah you're right, every elk hunter I know would rather chase mature bulls in August than in mid September. :? :roll:


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

The LE hunters would have the opportunity to do both. As it proved this year, September 12 "mid September" was not much different than August 16th. I think it was Fin that said, "pretty soon we will be hunting them in July".


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

*\-\* -/O_-


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I seen more elk this year then I have in the pass.I all so seen some great bucks this year as well. Just to bad we could not close the deal on them. hopfuly next year.


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## Stbmldcgrvs (May 5, 2008)

I don't know of any group representing bowhunters trying to undo what Pro worked so hard at. -- You are being a little paranoyed if you are referring to BOU--. Maybe SFW is who you were referring to as they made it clear in the mule deer committee that they wanted to see some dramatic changes to the current system. Right now BOU is attempting to maintain the statewide deer opportunity that will allow a southern bowhunter to actually hunt down south rather than be put in a draw pool with bowhunters from up north and only be able to draw out 1 time every 3 years. (the same could be said for the northern hunter who has always hunted down south and would like to draw rather than only hunt once every 2 or 3 years.) Those wishing for this change site overcrowding which the division refuted through study only 2 years ago when we had the staggered start of Elk and Deer seasons. This year, we had the elk hunt that opened the same day and it is my understanding that this did bring some unusual crowding because the LE elk hunters brought 1 tag and 15 other people to spot for him/her since it was his/her "once in a lifetime- excuse me once every 20 or so years tag-". This made for some interesting discussion. Pro- I hope that you don't feel that BOU is your enemy as there never has been any discussion to undo your work. I do know this, that SFW was disappointed that the deer committee didn't do everything they wanted and so I have heard of a behind the scenes effort to get a puppet organization to do their bidding for them regarding the archery season through the RAC's or who knows maybe they will be willing to offend some of their own members by proposing the removal of the statewide archery hunt themselves. Heck, if you look up the minutes from last november you can go to the Southern RAC and see that SFW stood at the pulpit and asked the RAC to shorten the Archery season. It is right in the minutes on the DWR website. Somehow many SFW members that are bowhunters missed that one. It is time for all sportsmen who value opportunity to begin to speak up and use their influence in the organizations that they belong to or otherwise we will be left with what a few influential people desire. It will be very interesting to watch what shakes out. Thank you pro for your efforts to provide opportunity. BOU is committed to protecting and providing new opportunities for Sportsman through Bowhunting. 

Shaun Graves


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Shaun, maybe you should read what Gordy and Finn have been saying about the archery elk opener BEFORE calling me paranoid. Just a thought.

Also, I don't think hyperbole is warranted when talking about going to regions for the first 9 days. You say people will draw once every three years, which is 100% false. The difference, if you use the numbers you referred to from the DWR, would be maybe 500-600 people in the southern region not drawing in year one, but they would be insured of drawing in year two. Now, add in the 5000 tags that could/should be added to the archery pool and the net loss is near zero, but we have GAINED 5000 additional archery tags. And, we STILL get to hunt statewide for 19 days.

Funny how you are calling me paranoid, all while sitting in the basement wearing a tinfoil hat. :shock: :wink:


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> I think it was Fin that said, "pretty soon we will be hunting them in July".


Woah on there, Kemo Sabe...wasn't me who said that.

I ain't getting between John Wayne and Chief Joseph! :lol:


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I would like to see the format stay as it is now but extend the Elk season into Sept. I would even give up the 1st 10 days of archery elk season to get 5 more later in sept. But that is just me! In realty, the season this year was tougher but we still went 2/4 on elk and the 2 who did not kill an elk, chose not to shoot at several. We just need to realize in the short term that hunting this early in the season you MUST change tactics. They do not respond well to bugling. Try spot and stalk, or waterholes. Works well!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Isnt hunting suppose to be a challenge? I cant believe people are complaining about hunting spikes when its easier to kill them earlier in the year. NO one can change the weather, but the hunters who adapt quickly to change are successful every year. 

Also one question. I have read numerous times that archery hunters are saying their "sacred hunting grounds" are over-crowded now but yet those same people want to see an increase in the number of Archery tags :roll: :roll: :shock: What gives?????

I believe they should give out 30,000 more archery tags, but then archers would be complaining AGAIN!!!!


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

I bowhunted deer in the southern region (public ground) this year. Hunted 6 consecutive days and an additional 2 days. We camped off of a well maintained dirt road and when we hunted, we didn't even try to get way back in no-mans-land. In fact, a lot of the hunt was spent hunting water not far from roads/trails. We seen a lot of bucks. One evening I had 10 deer come into some water where we had blinds set up. 8 out of 10 of those deer were bucks. The biggest was a 3X4 that was 21"-22" with 2 1/12" G1's. We had seen him several times and I was going to kill him if the opportunity came about. The closet he ever got was 80 yards. I passed up 30 yard shots on a 2 point and tall 3 point. I ended up not tagging out. This was a great hunt and the best part of this hunt was the fact that I did not see one other camp or hunter the entire time! So there CS, no complaints here!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Yeah you're right, every elk hunter I know would rather chase mature bulls in August than in mid September.


I would...


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

It is funny. I was just thinking this morning, the chuckar hunt opens on Saturday. I remember just a few years ago when I was still hunting sike only units during this time. Could not go on chukar opening because of it. Now the archery hunt has ended, LE rifle hunt is over and the LE deer rifle opens in a week from the chukar hunt. But I know quit whining and adapt. :roll:


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

Our group took 5 bucks and 1 cow elk this year. Two things factored in not filling all of our tags. Hot weather and not enough practice time on the target range. If you get off your duff, park the ATV and hike into the deep cover during the hot weather you will see more game. We saw more big bucks and elk this year than the past 5 years. The more hunters that run up and down the road on the quad or 4x4 the better the hunting gets for me. Just don't know how much longer the old 59 year old legs will hold out. I'll be back in Utah next year regardless.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Califbowmen said:


> I'll be back in Utah next year regardless.


 *OOO* <<--O/ I sure hope so!


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

I have to clarify the statement about getting off the duff. It is not made toward the author of the original post but as a suggestion to all hunters. There was a lot more game this year than most hunters were seeing. I even went as far as taking one gentleman to a spot where I had seen several nice bucks. He had 2 missed shots in less than 30 minutes.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> It is funny. I was just thinking this morning, the chuckar hunt opens on Saturday. I remember just a few years ago when I was still hunting sike only units during this time. Could not go on chukar opening because of it. Now the archery hunt has ended, LE rifle hunt is over and the LE deer rifle opens in a week from the chukar hunt. But I know quit whining and adapt. :roll:


Joey, They were thinking of you and your missed opportunity to hunt CHukars when the adopted this idea. It was a selfless act.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> HOGAN said:
> 
> 
> > It is funny. I was just thinking this morning, the chuckar hunt opens on Saturday. I remember just a few years ago when I was still hunting sike only units during this time. Could not go on chukar opening because of it. Now the archery hunt has ended, LE rifle hunt is over and the LE deer rifle opens in a week from the chukar hunt. But I know quit whining and adapt. :roll:
> ...


 -_O-


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