# ATV's and following the Rules (long story)



## Snaggle (Jan 17, 2011)

I was hoping I could borrow the soap box for a moment and share some rather distasteful experiences I had this last year during the elk hunt.

Our group usually hunts the Ashley National Forrest area by Flaming George. We take our ATV's up every year but rarely use them until it is time to haul a kill from the nearest trail back to camp. On opening day, I was heading back to camp as it was about time for the end for the day and maybe 100 yards from camp and this big bull comes running towards us on a parallel trail. He stops on the other side of a group of trees no more then 50 feet away. My partner and I both see him and take a knee, rifle at ready. We each cover an end of this 75 foot wide swath of trees. I can see parts of this big boy through the branches but did not fire through such random branches. I figured he would be coming out in short order. We just had to be patient.

No sooner had the above transpired when two ATV hunters coming screaming down the exact trail he is on at full speed. Due to a bend in the trail, when he did run out, they ended up being down range from my shot. This bad boy lived to see another day.

I was able to stop these guys and explain to them what just happened. They felt real, real bad. They wanted to get back to camp to have dinner and they had some distance to travel. These things happen and no animal is worth hurting someone.

Next morning. We had previously placed a ground blind at the top of a ridge in some trees overlooking a game path and water hole. It was maybe two mile from camp but had some elevation to it. I left camp somewhere in the area of 4:30, walked very, very slowly to this blind to await first light.

Just as sunrise was upon me, low and behold, an ATV comes cruising along this ridge line and crosses literally six feet in front of me. He did not know I was there so I decided to not say anything and let him move on and out of my way. He must have been in his fifties and seems to be driving an ATV that was to small and underpowered for his size. Later that day, I followed his tire tracks back to see where he left the actual trail. He had to climb over multiple downed trees to get where I saw him so he knew he was going cross country.

That same afternoon I went up to the very end of the main dirty road to make a phone call home. The only place you can get a signal for many miles. I am just finishing up my call, when I hear twenty or so shots behind me between 300-500 yards. This baffled me to why people would want to sight in during the actual hunt and in the hunting area. To add insult to injury, I hear multiple ATV's fire up and start coming down an old logging road towards me. I stand at the gate separating the logging road from the travel road with the sign on it that reads "No motorized vehicle beyond this point." I was debating my intentions when they appear on the road, see me and take off cross country at full speed. They must have thought I was a ranger or something because their eyes became real big.

I am not sure if my long story is an isolated incident or if we have just become so fat and lazy that we have forgotten how to walk. ATV's are an important part of the outdoors but abuses like this will cause their ban in short order. Please, get a map, read up on the ATV rules for that area, follow them and have some common courtesy. After all you are not the only person hunting and even though you may not care, others do.

Thanks for letting me use the soup box.


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## Josh (Oct 27, 2008)

Snaggle, 

I'm with you 100%. ATVs on closed or unauthorized cross country trails is a huge issue. I'm not anti ATV, and used to own one myself. When I did own that ATV I was riding behind a ford explorer down a dirt road, and when I got to the end of the road there was a wildlife officer waiting and he let me know that I had just driven on a road that was closed to ATVs. He proceeded to give me a $500 dollar ticket and wished me luck on my hunt. That was alot of money for a collage student at the time. It was my ignorance that led to me driving on that road and so I paid the ticket and learned a valuable lesson. 

In my opinion, when ATVs leave designated trails they are destroying land, plants and habitat that is not theres to destroy. The fines and pentalties should be significantly higher for these ignorant acts. Even though I always stayed on existing trails my ticket experience taught me to make sure I knew what trails I could and couldnt be on. Ultimately as a outdoor society we cant accept these actions and need to let those we associate in the outdoors with know that its unacceptable. Is there any way to turn in people that violate these laws?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I have utv's and atv's I use all the time and I want to see the land locked up to their use. I get so sick of lazzy puke hunters abusing them.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Remember a few years ago when they tried to pass a law that said all ATV's must have a LARGE identifying number attached so you could identify them from a distant...well, our great friends on the far right teamed up with the ATV lobby and said that would be an intrusion of government on our personal rights and defeated the measure (can you believe one of their arguments was that the bright signs would frighten the animals)...anyway, I wish someone would reintroduce that legislation again because I think maybe this time, given the many many stories like yours, the law might pass. Not being able to identify these A** h***s from a reasonable distance is a great hindrance and annoyance to law enforcement.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

It's not just an isolated incident and it's a problem nation wide. I just got back from hunting quail in Nevada. We were hunting along a big stream bed that lead down to lake Mead. At the head of the canyon clearly posted on a HUGE sign it read. "NO OHV TRAFFIC BEYOND THIS POINT" While we were in there hunting on foot at least two miles behind the sign, we started to notice that every single draw, ridge, ravine, flat, and wash had ATV tracks up and down it. It became very evident from the tracks and the empty shotgun hulls everywhere people had been riding around all over that country hunting quail from their bikes. LAZY MUTHER HUBBARDS!!! I cant really express the level of my LOATHING for these kinds of people. They make my blood boil.

The internet and wheelers have changed the face of hunting forever. In a lot of ways and on a lot of different levels I think they have ruined hunting forever.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Yeap you right Tex bewteen the internet and TV shows you can't be hip unless you hot dog your flashy off-road rig all over while hunting. Don't forget those chrome rims on your wheeler too. 

The recerational wheeler community knows what the rules are, but just like the trend in the rest of our society, most just ignore them and do whatever they want, it just ain't hip to follow the rules anymore.


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## Mytoge Muley (Jan 11, 2011)

snaggle, I agree with you (all of you) about idiots on ATVs. I use the term Idiot as thats exactly what they are. I own several ATVs but they used only in a designated place or time. Im not big on hunting off of them at all. that seems to be all you see now days is the modern day fatty's hunting from there rangers, I even read a story in a popular hunting mag the other day about a limited entry hunt a guy went on, and it was we slowly drove the ranger here, and then we took the ranger there. who wants to hear that? not me, I would rather hear how you hiked in, snuck up on, and harvested your animal. I also hunt elk in ashley national forest and every year I use trail heads that are not open to ATVs to get to the back country. Every year I have ATVS passing me, what do you do, short of knocking the guy off of the thing and beating them up. I enjoy my ATVs and my rights but "Idiots" are surely trying to take them away, and as TEX & MOJO said I think it is changing the face of hunting, at least how I know it.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Here is my 2 cents and it may not even be worth that.

ATV'rs like any other group in America, including hunters, are simply a cross section of society. Every group has people that obey the rules and people that do not. I support 150% any individual or individuals that break the law being prosecuted.

BUT for every person on an ATV that is breaking the law I'll show you 10 that are not. Be careful about demonizing the use of ATV's because some people are irresponsible with them or you are not any better than the folks the say guns are to blame for crime, or all hunters are beer drinking ********. 

It's my opinion that legal roads and trails should be kept to a standard of a maximum number miles per so many square miles of forest to keep them wild and to preserve them. I think some road and trails closures in some forest systems are DEFINITELY warranted but to shut off all access to ATV'rs because some break the law is like banning guns because some people use them for crime.

If you see a crime please get as much info as you can and report it. It's our best defense.


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## Fishracer (Mar 2, 2009)

Josh said:


> Snaggle,
> 
> I'm with you 100%. ATVs on closed or unauthorized cross country trails is a huge issue. I'm not anti ATV, and used to own one myself. When I did own that ATV I was riding behind a ford explorer down a dirt road, and when I got to the end of the road there was a wildlife officer waiting and he let me know that I had just driven on a road that was closed to ATVs. He proceeded to give me a $500 dollar ticket and wished me luck on my hunt. That was alot of money for a collage student at the time. It was my ignorance that led to me driving on that road and so I paid the ticket and learned a valuable lesson.
> 
> In my opinion, when ATVs leave designated trails they are destroying land, plants and habitat that is not theres to destroy. *The fines and pentalties should be significantly higher *for these ignorant acts. Even though I always stayed on existing trails my ticket experience taught me to make sure I knew what trails I could and couldnt be on. Ultimately as a outdoor society we cant accept these actions and need to let those we associate in the outdoors with know that its unacceptable. Is there any way to turn in people that violate these laws?


I agree. I have ran into a group of wheelers coming down a old road that had been closed for years. When i stopped them to let them what they were doing was wrong. There response was it was worth the fine then having to pack out an elk that one of them had shot back in the area( we were a mile and a half from any road when i ran into these hunters). I guess some people just dont get it. To me it is about respect to other hunters as well as the land and the law. Why would you ride into an area and chase out all the game?


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## Snaggle (Jan 17, 2011)

Maybe this should be a wakeup call. We need to self regulate so the government does not need to. As you all know, our law and rules makers that are very reactive bunch and will shut it down if we do not police ourselves. 

I would propose that we all take the time to get a map and learn where we can and not not ride. If we see someone breaking those rules that we do our best to politely remind them. Besides, elk are not deer and will not stand there looking at you for five minutes when you approach. They see, hear or smell you, they are gone. An ORV noise is not natural and scare them off long before you see them. So really, your wasting your time and mine.

I, like most, appreciate the ability to haul my kill to the nearest ATV approved trail and then let the machine do the work from there. We are having to go deeper and deeper into the back country because we are a loud noisy group and the ORV's just makes a louder.

I failed to even mentioned the environmental impact ATV's have when going cross country. It is a shame to see the mountain torn up and all the ORV tracks imbedded in the mud.

Does any have a suggestion on the best way to approach violators or any other ideas in a way to get the word out?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> .......................................... it just ain't hip to follow the rules anymore.


+1

it's sad


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

-O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Mytoge Muley (Jan 11, 2011)

Bull snot, you are right. Good point. I should of clarified in my posts that "Idiots" are a minority. Most guys I know in my hunting community have ATVS and do abide by the laws, and like me, they seldom use them for hunting. Unfortunatley sometimes it only takes a few idiots out there to take away the rights of all the rest of us.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Hey, we do this 3 times a year, January, June and September. I think it's even in the rules. :mrgreen: o-||


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
> ...


and even if it was against the rules, we would do it anyway!
:mrgreen:


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- -O\__- o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
> ...


yes we do and it get really old fast.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> > dkhntrdstn said:
> ...


Yep because the mods only worry about the stupid **** that goes on here.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> ..................
> 
> Hey, we do this 3 times a year, January, June and September. I think it's even in the rules. :mrgreen:
> 
> ...


I would hope so! It's a great discussion.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

What I have read in your article snaggle is that twice you complained about atv's being so close to you in both instance's. yet you your self are right there on the trail. you have to come to expect that when you are on a trial, you we have other riders (hunter's and non hunters) traveling in front of you. everyone rides to different levels and speed, this should not be a issue. Have you ever thought, that you might have disrupted someone else's hunting without knowing it. then in the end you state "fat and lazy" when you yourself is on a atv trail. I'm not understanding. travling off road is ruining the sport of atv's and before we cast stones, we should ask ourself how I'm effecting it.

Try this one on for size. I used to bow hunt race track up above current creek. Every 5 minutes there is motorcross riders doing 40+ mph and poping wheelies all over the place; bands of atv riders moving back and forth. I expect and get what comes from being near a trail and the south slope has lots of trials. I was hoping you would complain about the forest service harasing atv owners and setting up road blocks.

""I understand from his posting, that only the last incounter using his cell phone did he run into a rider using a closed road"""


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> What I have read in your article snaggle is that twice you complained about atv's being so close to you in both instance's. yet you your self are right there on the trail. you have to come to expect that when you are on a trial, you we have other riders (hunter's and non hunters) traveling in front of you. everyone rides to different levels and speed, this should not be a issue. Have you ever thought, that you might have disrupted someone else's hunting without knowing it. then in the end you state "fat and lazy" when you yourself is on a atv trail. I'm not understanding. travling off road is ruining the sport of atv's and before we cast stones, we should ask ourself how I'm effecting it.


My understanding was the one trail was a closed trail that he hiked in on and the others people were on illegally. As many know I am an avid ATV supporter and I hate hearing these types of stories. Something needs to be done so the rest of us law abiding ATV riders don't lose our privilege.


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## Snaggle (Jan 17, 2011)

BROWN BAGGER said:


> What I have read in your article snaggle is that twice you complained about atv's being so close to you in both instance's. yet you your self are right there on the trail. you have to come to expect that when you are on a trial, you we have other riders (hunter's and non hunters) traveling in front of you. everyone rides to different levels and speed, this should not be a issue. Have you ever thought, that you might have disrupted someone else's hunting without knowing it. then in the end you state "fat and lazy" when you yourself is on a atv trail. I'm not understanding. travling off road is ruining the sport of atv's and before we cast stones, we should ask ourself how I'm effecting it.
> 
> Try this one on for size. I used to bow hunt race track up above current creek. Every 5 minutes there is motorcross riders doing 40+ mph and poping wheelies all over the place; bands of atv riders moving back and forth. I expect and get what comes from being near a trail and the south slope has lots of trials. I was hoping you would complain about the forest service harasing atv owners and setting up road blocks.
> 
> ""I understand from his posting, that only the last incounter using his cell phone did he run into a rider using a closed road"""


I should clarify for you. The first night when I ran into a bull and did not take a shot, I was close to an authorized ATV trail and as stated in my original post, it was OK with it. No harm to foul. I was slight perturbed that they were ridding like a bat of of hell in the middle of a hunting area. If people wish to race and rip it up, there are places for that, which, I am might add, is not in the middle of the hunting area. Again, I was OK with it since I was close to the trail.

The other two were clearly way, way off trail. I was two miles from the nearest road and approved ATV trail. These guys were clearly outside if the designed ORV area. That's why I got up early, walked like a ninja in the bitter cold at 11,000 feet to my blind just to have some YAHOO drive his ATV in front of my blind. Should I be utterly perturbed, you bet your panties as I walked so I could get away from the ATV's.

As for the third, I was mostly upset that for the second time that day, idiots had used the hunting area for target practice which is not the safest or smartest thing to do and to boot, they were riding in a restricted area.

I am just asking for some common sense. Sounds like this has been hashed out her time and time again so I will let it go. But I stand by my 'fat and lazy' comment as there was a time before ATV's when you only had to worry about the drunk guys with the guns. Now it is the drunk guys with the guns on the ATV's in the middle of the forrest.


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## Snaggle (Jan 17, 2011)

jahan said:


> As many know I am an avid ATV supporter and I hate hearing these types of stories. Something needs to be done so the rest of us law abiding ATV riders don't lose our privilege.


Well stated! :O||:


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## Mytoge Muley (Jan 11, 2011)

Snaggle said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > As many know I am an avid ATV supporter and I hate hearing these types of stories. Something needs to be done so the rest of us law abiding ATV riders don't lose our privilege.
> ...


I second that. I love my ATVs too, so does my family, but we know there is a time and a place for them. As I stated in my post on this topic there are unfortunatley a few Idiots out there that give the sport a bad rap. Common sense is a must, as well as being sobor!


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

jahan said:


> As many know I am an avid ATV supporter and I hate hearing these types of stories. Something needs to be done so the rest of us law abiding ATV riders don't lose our privilege.


+1 The problem is the fix is going to be more legislation, more closures, and more restrictions. I feel Snaggler's pain, but what I found missing in his rant is where he did anything about it. No pictures, no video, no registration numbers, no calls.


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## Snaggle (Jan 17, 2011)

Gumbo said:


> I feel Snaggler's pain, but what I found missing in his rant is where he did anything about it. No pictures, no video, no registration numbers, no calls.


I appreciate that point of view and absolutely agree. Please understand I was hunting and not in a position to take much action. As mentioned in the story, I did stop and talk to the first pair that were on the trail and asked for some courtesy in regards to speed, mostly for the safety of those of us on foot. However, they were not doing anything that would warrant a complaint to authorities.

The second time, when he drove the ridge line, I was there to hunt and wanted him out of the way so I could watch the water hole. In hindsight, I could have stepped out for a minute to talk to him and let him know he was way off the approved trail.

It was completely my intention to stop and talk with the last pair but they took off on me. Not sure what I could have done there. Cell phone signal was non existent at that spot and sketchy at best at the overlook. Besides, I did not see them well enough to point them out to a LEO.

I think I will carry my camera more readily available in the future to document such occurrences and preprogram the local non-emergency number into my phone.

Great food for thought Gumbo. Thanks


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

Spend much time in fishing forums and you'll hear rants about PWCs and skiers buzzing the fishing boats. The one cure I've found to that is to take a video camera and to let them see you taping them. People know that the chances are slim of being caught by the authorities--there just aren't enough of them. So we have to be ready to report the violations.

I know people who have taken pictures and videos, turned them into the authorities, and the offenders were ticketed. I feel this is a better approach than complaining and drawing the attention of those who are already trying to strip us of our rights.

But I'm with you--it's painful to watch.


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