# Cougar Hunting



## uthntr (Feb 19, 2008)

I am considering doing the harvest objective cougar hunt. I've never hunted cougars but have seen them while deer and elk hunting. I just want to get out. But I will NOT be using dogs. How am I supposed to tell if its a female or male from 300 yards? Do people even hunt them without dogs? I hear a lot of critizism about people harvesting females. But is it such a bad thing if your hunting them without dogs to tree and cant tell! 

If I do end up getting a tag I probably wont get lucky enough to see one, but just thought i'd ask just incase.


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## Packbasket (Oct 29, 2009)

The ONLY way to sex ID a lion is by visibly identifying the scrotum and black ring around the penis sheath, if you can do that from 300 yards, have at it.

I think it would be a short number of phone calls to Utah houndsmen and you'd be invited along, keeping in mind that a national poll of hound hunters a few years ago came back that more than 80% do NOT shoot the game their hounds have treed, I am still certain that you will be put in touch with someone running that won't mind you shooting out a cat over their hounds.

Without hounds unless you know where a lion is hanging out , crossing or feeding regularly already, I'd say your chances of seeing a lion to ID at all is right inbetween slim and none.

Even with hounds you can't always be in postion to sex the cat.










I'd give some calls to Utah Houndsmen members and see if you can get a lion going with one of them.


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

Packbasket said:


> The ONLY way to sex ID a lion is by visibly identifying the scrotum and black ring around the penis sheath, if you can do that from 300 yards, have at it.
> 
> I think it would be a short number of phone calls to Utah houndsmen and you'd be invited along, keeping in mind that a national poll of hound hunters a few years ago came back that more than 80% do NOT shoot the game their hounds have treed, *I am still certain that you will be put in touch with someone running that won't mind you shooting out a cat over their hounds.*
> 
> ...


The only houndsmen that will just let you tag along and shoot a cat over there dogs are just going to be bucket ass kids with a ragtag pack of hounds......your chances of seeing a lion are almost as slim as doing a spot a stalk hunt............... A serious houndman is not going to just let you shoot any old lion (oops young lion, there arent any old ones left in utah) out of the tree over there dogs.......Just my opionion but ill let goofy elk and kevin d and a few others sound off as im sure they will agree.................. :?:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Plotty's right,, I don't know one single houndsmen that's going to just let someone
tag along.........Unless your willing to break out your checkbook,,BIGTIME.

The only way around it is if you have know'n a houndsmen for many year's and bought 
them many beer's,,,,And promised them a trip to Hawaii when you win the lottery..
Then may-be.


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## Packbasket (Oct 29, 2009)

well I guess I know a solid 50 houndsmen coast to coast and I can't think of a single one that when asked by a young fella if he could go would they ever say , NO, much less expect anything from the kid either. 

Glad I haven't met the other kind of houndsmen, really didn't think such a houndsman existed to be honest.

But slow down fellas, the cat ain't even treed yet and we're already planning where the rug goes, this young man may have ZERO interest in hound hunting his cat.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Hey pack,,50 hounds men coast to coast,,That's a bunch,,,

How many of them Wayne county hound guy's do you know?

I'll bet I can name them all,,,Can't think of a single one of them that would take
someone out for free that they don't know,,,,and with a kill tag in there pocket?
NOT going to happen!,,,,Wayne county is full of great folks, But don't mess with
there cats. Unfortunately, that's how it is in about the whole state these days.

Anyway,,uthntr,, I have seen it done with no dogs, It can happen. But it's rare.
I could actually shoot a couple ideas at you if you send me a PM and let me know
were your thinking about trying.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

A couple thoughts......

First, just because an area is harvest objective unit doesn't mean it has a high population of cats. In fact, in many cases, just the opposite is true. If the DWR is trying to protect a struggling deer herd, or some recently introduced bighorn sheep, they will put a unit under a predator management plan where cougar numbers are kept below where they naturally would be. Harvest objective tags is the tool the DWR uses to ensure an over harvest of lions......not good if you are a spot and stalker.

Second, most experienced houndsmen can tell the sex of a lion just by looking at it's track. Not only is the stride and spacing different on a tom, but the shape of the toes differ as well. Females have oblong toes and toms have rounder ones. Is it something that is easily determined by a novice?? No, but examine a hundred or so tracks then catch up to the lion on the other end and you'll begin to get a feel for it.

Also, you can tell the sex of a cougar by looking at the shape of its head. A round head for a tom and a narrow head for a female. The black nose band is also more distinct on a tom. But again, veiw a couple hundred cats and these traits become noticeable. But to someone without a lot of experience veiwing a cougar at 300 yards, nearly impossible.

As far as taking kids or anybody else out for free lion hunts?? Sorry, I don't do it for a number of reasons. First, for every lion I help kill, thats one less cat I have an opportunity to catch and release next weekend......dead lions leave no tracks  . Second, most nonhoundsmen don't have the equipment and gear you need to cougar hunt in the winter, like snowmobiles, snowshoes, lots of goretex etc. It's a pain in the butt to have to outfit everybody that wants to tag along, especially if you're not getting paid. That stuff costs a lot of money. Third, I hunt to relax and have fun, but it's not relaxing nor is it fun to have someone along anxious to fill a tag. And finally, I feel that cougars in this state are over harvested and I refuse to participate in the slaughter. If someone wants to kill a lion, fine, have a great hunt.......I'll just gather my dogs and head in another direction.


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## uthntr (Feb 19, 2008)

Geeze I wasnt asking to go with someone with hounds. I would prefer NOT to do it that way. I guess the main thing I was asking is: How big of a deal is it to take a female if you cant tell the difference from a distance? Dont get all uptight, its just a question.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

It is legal to take a female as long as she dose not have kittens, This would be another 
problem you would be facing taking a lion from a distance not being able to get a good
look. One of the great advantages of treeing a lion "or bear" with dogs is, you know
exactly what you have before you ever pull the trigger.
It would really suck it you killed a female from a distance and then find she is nursing
or had young ones with her.

Another draw back is the new cougar management plan calls out for a reduction in 
quotas issued in any unit that more than 20% of the harvest is females. This is an
effort being made trying to discourage the harvesting of females.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I love this kind of topic everytime it comes up. 

I have found the reason most hound guys won't take someone out with a tag and let them kill a cat is because they don't want to get crap from another houndsmen. There are areas in this state that do lack in the number of cats around. But there are many harvest areas in the state that have a good number of cats IMO but what would I know about that. All I do is hike around in the winter time and find the tracks everywhere while most of the hound guys are down driving roads looking for them. 

Anyway I wish you luck if you do get a tag. Spot stock is not easy and I personaly have more respect for a guy who can get one spot and stock rather then using hounds. In all the years Ive tried it I have seen two cats. One I let walk because it had a collar the other one I was to far away and new it would be gone before I could get to it. But About 1out of 2 years that I don't have a tag in my hand I will see one. I think alot is just being in the right place at the right time and if you are in an area with alot of sign your odds will go way up. GOOD LUCK!


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

Study cats around the neighborhood.


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## annieks (Dec 8, 2009)

I checked into a campground in Salina, Utah, this afternoon. Took my dog out for a walk, and looked across a field - I saw a very large black cat-like creature with a long tail walking - slinking better describes it - along a fence line. So I went inside and got out my laptop and googled "panther" and then "cougar" then tried "Utah Wildlife". I think I saw one, a black cougar! Odd that such a creature would be so close to a populated area, and a main highway - I-70.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

annieks said:


> I checked into a campground in Salina, Utah, this afternoon. Took my dog out for a walk, and looked across a field - I saw a very large black cat-like creature with a long tail walking - slinking better describes it - along a fence line. So I went inside and got out my laptop and googled "panther" and then "cougar" then tried "Utah Wildlife". I think I saw one, a black cougar! Odd that such a creature would be so close to a populated area, and a main highway - I-70.


I hope you managed to capture the black cougar on film, because it has never been proved that they even exist. Jaguars are known to have a black color phase, but not cougars. In the hundreds of years since North America has been settled, no physical evidence exists suggesting they are anything more than products of overactive imaginations. Sorry.


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