# I see hipsters... Is that where my tag went this year?



## Dbilbao (Feb 17, 2021)

I have been hunting the same unit for close to 20 years now. It has been a great way for me to connect with 3 of my brothers my dad and a few close friends over the years. With the exception of a payment glitch or someone just too busy to remember to put in for the hunt we have NEVER not drawn a tag. Interestingly enough this year my hunt unit was one of the few that was issued an increase in tags. That having been said, 8 of the 13 of us in our group failed to draw this year. I understand that over the past ten years UT has had just short of a million people move in, but... no one I have met that has recently moved to the State hunts. They're all a little more city. In fact my son knows of literally 3 other kids at his high school that come from hunting stock. I guess my question is am I crazy? I see Hipsters, Cholos and every other demographic other than hunters, in my opinion. I could never say I have felt like we were being over ran by ********, hillbillies or hunters. When we go out hunting big game we only complain about those [email protected]#^ Arizonians. We even know their names and cuss them specifically. I just don’t understand how that many of us that did not draw a tag this year especially with an increased number of tags to be had. Any clarification would be appreciated.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

If you shared the unit I Maybe could give you a possibility


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

What cholos can’t hunt?


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## 2pntkiller (10 mo ago)

Sounds like the panguitch unit


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

one4fishing said:


> What cholos can’t hunt?


They usually have a shizzy Jesus tattoo on one side of their neck and the other side says MS-13.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

If you put in as a group, the chance of not drawing increases. I'm guessing those who didn't draw,
were part of a group app.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

All I read here is a hate filled, racist, over entitled person looking to vent his frustration with the draw system. You start right out with "where MY tag went"...your tag, really? Somehow you feel you are "entitled" to a tag because you are a "hunter", not just another person that wants to go hunting...you are "entitled" because you have drawn a tag every year for 20 years...you are "entitled" because you are not a hipster or cholo(whatever that is) or you are "entitled" just because you go hunting with your family...what you don't think "hipsters and cholos" don't hunt with their families? I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

Wow, maybe one of the worst posts that ever hit this sight.

Let it be known that you do not represent the average, typical person that uses this sight.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Wow...is the shizzer full too? Maybe it's time to load up that there RV and hit the road...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Merry Christmas, W2U!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Booo... forum wont let me post a pict.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I'm having a hard time keeping all the terms straight anymore: pool jumpers, cholos, hipsters . . . 

I'd urban dictionary these terms, but I'm afraid I'd come across something else.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

One of my really good friends might look "out of place" on the mountain. He grew up in a very urban heavily hispanic area. His family always fished though and he thought the mountains were awesome so the outdoor curiousity has always been there. When he decided to take up hunting I offered any help he needed. He researched and took hunter safety, researched and bought his own weapons, looked into units -- everything. Put himself in the draw too, and some on here still think that's rocket science. Found his own public land to go to.

Well despite me knowing his first unit great and all my offers, he didn't call me until after a rainstorm filled week in which he solo camped in a tent in walmart camo and such. Said he had a deer which, after maybe the worlds worst gut job (most peoples first isn't great), he dragged whole to his truck by himself. He just wasn't ready for the next steps but wanted to process it ON HIS OWN.

Point is - he is more of a hunter than most of the "traditional" (whatever that means) hunters I know. He picked a unit, found public ground, took himself there with a tent and a proclamation, hunted way too hard for way too many days - and ended up successful. The pursuit of game, and the fresh grilled steaks, mean everything to him. He isn't entitled. He is a man who loves the mountains and loves hunting. Every year he spends so much time making it hard on himself, but most of the time he doesn't leave empty handed. He doesn't much care about "size" and has harvested big and small deer all with a smile.

Despite his diamond earrings and neck tattoo, I would share a campfire with him over 95% of the other guys. Hunting should be one of the least bigoted things in the world. It's god's country and all are welcome.


You didn't draw a tag. It happens to most of us. Stop being entitled that someone else gets to hunt YOUR unit.


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## pollo70 (Aug 15, 2016)

Good reply BPturkeys ,,,,,and what a first post to start your intro Dbilbao


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Preach RandomElk!


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

While I do agree with RE, I absolutely hate seeing California plates in the places I hunt. It’s bad enough I have to look at some every time I walk out my front door, the last place I wanna see them is in the mountains of utah. Nothing good comes from that place and they are invading utah faster than Covid-19 did. The lady in my neighborhood made herself known by calling the cops on a kid with a .22 on his back riding his dirtbike down the road, the first week she moved in. She wanted the parent arrested for allowing a kid (17) to possess a firearm and the kid ticketed for riding a dirtbike on the road. Then a few months later called the cops on me for skinning the quarters of a cow elk on my driveway at 11:30 at night in January. Not sure what she wanted me put in jail for on that, but even the cop called her a, uh, lets say Karen.

tell me what unit you applied for and I’ll tell you why you didn’t draw. It’s not hard to figure these things out. And no, the mexicans Aren’t the reason you don’t have a permit this year.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Definitely a post with, and that brought out, shallowly buried prejudices and bigotries.

Fake account?


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

There is such a fine line between naivety and being unable to recognize whats in front of you; and judging a book by its cover. Some can't see long term threats to their community and way of life. Others can't see friends who would help protect the same.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Let the "Rookie Hipsters" get the tags. They will be running around the hills with the flat brimmed hats spooking the game away, and leaving some stock for the seasoned hunters to punch tags the following year. They will get frustrated and not want to apply again.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

California transplants coming here and telling us what we should do are the WORST!

Haha! It never gets old.

So am I to understand that Latin American people don’t belong in the mountains? Someone ought to cruise down to South America and tell all those folks that are way more rugged than any of us in Utah could ever dream!


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

It's always disheartening to me to see how common it is for people to discriminate against an entire group for the actions of individuals. Especially when it's scapegoating. Never ends well for anyone.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I just want to know what "hunting stock" is? 

Didn't Trump ban those after the Vegas shooting? Or is it like a nice walnut stock on a fine shotgun or rifle? 
OK, off to work.


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## bthewilde (Feb 8, 2018)

I was probably one of those hipsters, but then I ditched my Creedmoor. All jokes aside, I feel like with the diminishing number of OTC tags, we're doing more harm than good for the next generation of hunters. My son is stoked and can't wait till he can put in and go, but I am afraid that enthusiasm might wain if he isn't able to draw a youth tag or I am not able to draw and we aren't going. This is one of the reasons I rely on Idaho Family, heck I am half tempted to sign a rental contract with one and change my info over.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

bthewilde said:


> I was probably one of those hipsters, but then I ditched my Creedmoor. All jokes aside, I feel like with the diminishing number of OTC tags, we're doing more harm than good for the next generation of hunters. My son is stoked and can't wait till he can put in and go, but I am afraid that enthusiasm might wain if he isn't able to draw a youth tag or I am not able to draw and we aren't going. This is one of the reasons I rely on Idaho Family, heck I am half tempted to sign a rental contract with one and change my info over.


yeah fraud is always a good option when trying to get more tags. Especially while teaching the younger generation to consider doing the same things when they want more as they get older.

OTC youth archery deer. OTC spike. OTC UNLIMITED youth any bull. OTC fall turkey. OTC spring turkey. OTC antlerless control. OTC private land antlerless. OTC lion. Youth turkey hunt. Youth waterfowl hunt. Youth upland hunt.

Don’t forget about the 20% of draw turkey, general deer, antlerless, swan, sandhill crane tags reserved for youth. Also don’t forget about the youth any bull hunt. Dont forget if a youth draws an ALW deer tag, they can hunt all the seasons.

and then there is the mentor option. But that isn’t very popular with many adults because that cuts into their own opportunities and that’s not ok!

there is more opportunities for youth now than there EVER has been. None of us got these perks growing up as kids. But here we are, as addictive as they get. If your kid isn’t hunting every weekend from august until the middle of February, on OTC opportunities and general hunts, that’s your fault as a parent! The draw stuff is just a bonus. If you want to draw more tags, change units. Change seasons. Change weapon types. Kids can draw deer tags every year if you do a little research. Be open minded and willing to try new things if you really are worried about “your kids”. But do not sit there and blame the state, the system or anything else for lack of youth hunting opportunities. The only one to blame is the parents and their unwillingness to try new things. You’re right. We are doing more harm than good with the next generation. By handing them all these things as youth that they take for granted, then turn 18 and lose all the perks they had when they were kids. Then you get the cry babies that we have now wanting a change in the system and how things are done because it’s not “fair” that they have to wait for permits now as an adult, unlike when they were kids and had stacks of opportunities then.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Hipsters and long hairs. Those Westfalia van's are the ultimate hunting rig!!!!


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

backcountry said:


> It's always disheartening to me to see how common it is for people to discriminate against an entire group for the actions of individuals. Especially when it's scapegoating. Never ends well for anyone.


Yes it is. My mother was born and raised in the Salt Lake area. My father was born in Montana and raised in Colorado. They met at Fort Douglas in WW2 . They got married and moved to California where I was born and raised. The 60s, 70s and 80s were awesome for bird hunting, mainly quail, dove and ducks. Salt water fishing was great. It wasn't a Liberal state then. Population started growing rapidly in the 90s and political leaders changing. The wife and I moved to a small town in Southern Utah in 2000. I still laugh at how some people here were surprised I was a hunting, fishing fool. 
I am always amused at the California bashing and stereotyping. Some of it is deserved. What is happening here is the same thing that happened in California with Population growth.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Irish Lad said:


> I am always amused at the California bashing and stereotyping. Some of it is deserved. What is happening here is the same thing that happened in California with Population growth.


*Almost all of it is deserved. California has become the armpit of America. 

And your last sentence is exactly what has us Utahns worried about. We don’t want that. California doesn’t even want it, that’s why you came and stayed here!

I like good Californians. I can tell you were one. Not the ones that come here then lecture all of us how we do things.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Once they take up residence here they become Utah citizens and have equal say as native born Utahns. And to be fair, "Utahns" rarely agree on what we want. 

Every place I've lived now has a scapegoat they love to blame for change. S. Colorado blamed Texas, front range blamed Cali 25+ years ago. Virginia blamed New Yorkers. And that's not naming all of the nastier variations.

I can tell you the rhetoric has a negative impact on transplants like my wife. And it doesn't end with adults, kids emulate this stuff.

Ultimately you know who causes change? All of us Americans. We are in this together.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> And your last sentence is exactly what has us Utahns worried about. We don’t want that. California doesn’t even want it, that’s why you came and stayed here!
> 
> I like good Californians. I can tell you were one. Not the ones that come here then lecture all of us how we do things.


I agree with you about not lecturing. The influx of people is inevitable though. Me and my buddies didn't like it either when California was growing and changing. I moved here, most of them moved to Texas. 
I remember when I was in 6th grade and the teacher took a survey and out of about 25 kids only 3 of us were born in California. I would be curious what it is in St. George and some cities up north.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Half the people I know that live in CA are transplants from other states. My wife and her friends are the only "native born" Californians I know.

We are a nation of migrants who continue to migrate within the country. It's actually was a hallmark of a healthy middleclass. 

Ironically one of the primary themes we are seeing the last 15 years in this country is voluntary "sorting". More people are moving to areas considered to be like-minded. One of the downsides of that is we tend to harden our factions and therefore us v them. I'm hopeful we can change that.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Sorry, but most of us that have been in Utah since long before this garbage started were pretty much in agreement on how, when, and why things should be done. Even the non LDS ones. 
That's my experience from the people I know. 
But yes, everyone has become more mobile and migrate more often. 

But in my career I got very tired of hearing:
In California we do this. 
In California we have this. 
In California we can get this. 
In California we do it this way. 

I told more than a couple of them, then go back to California.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I've never run into the "in California we do it this way" talk but I can imagine how annoying that would get. Most CA transplants I know do their best to blend in as they often get harassed when it's found out. 

None of my friends in SLC area that have lived there for decades, or multiple generations, would agree with the conclusion about unity on what Utah should be. None of my friends in Grand Co who've lived there for decades would agree either. 

Cedar had a stronger cohesion than anyplace I lived in Utah but even then it's the locals with huge tracts of lands who are developing and subdividing them. Enough of them are happy enough to cash in on the change. We wouldn't be seeing the rapid growth if so many families weren't willing to convert old family land. It's the same theme that played out in CA & CO. Where I lived in CO was all subdivisions on very old ranch land. And with growth comes diversification. Cedar had a chance to prevent that and didn't (still won't). 

I'm just always shocked at how we scapegoat outgroups as a people. It's happened every place I've lived (which means change has been constant). I just hate to see it play out over and over again. I got harassed as a southerner in CO and my wife & her family members have been harassed here. I see it every week on FB regarding changes in Cedar. 

It's so easy to forget we are all in it together.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

2full said:


> Sorry, but most of us that have been in Utah since long before this garbage started were pretty much in agreement on how, when, and why things should be done. Even the non LDS ones.


Your last sentence tickles me. Don"t know if you realize how it could be taken. I'm assuming then you consider "most of us" LDS folks. I apologize if I'm mistaken. In the small town I live in alot folks believe there's 4 classes of people.
1. Those born and raised there.
2. LDS folks who move in.
3. Your term, non LDS folks who move in.
4. Non LDS folks from California. 

I fall into the 4 class. A very few were quite interesting about it. Some wouldn't talk to us or even say hello. As it turned out the Stake President grew up in the same neighborhood as I did. I am a couple years older. We've become great friends. We became almost acceptable by some.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I personally don't have ANY problem with LDS, non LDS. I have all kinds of friends I golf, hunt, and associate with. Always have. I played on a league golf team for several years. The sponsor guy always said his team was 2 Mormons, two Catholics, and 2 Heathens....... I always wondered which one I was ?
I get along with people. I even enjoy MOST people. 

Spending 46 years in retail, I saw a lot of attitude. Saw a lot of people move in because of what was here and what was built. Then complain and want to change it. 

Take it for what it's worth. Or not.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Irish Lad said:


> I would be curious what it is in St. George


At least 40%. Definitely lots of Californian's down here that like to tell us locals what we can and can't do.

Two years ago I was hiking the pine valleys on a forest service trail and had 3 very angry California poop heads tell me it was illegal for me to be on a public trail with my shotgun. Than I saw a grouse, shucked a shell in the chamber, and they took off running. Funny thing is the grouse disappeared also 🤣 .

They had the audacity to call the police on me, the sheriff was waiting at the trailhead with the Cali idiots and after he verified I wasn't a felon he told them to hit the road because I was completely legal. The communists were way pissed and started calling the sheriff and myself ignorant locals along with other cuss words.

A few months ago I was just south of Utah in AZ shooting my rifle on a piece of Arizona Sitla land. Some California idiots pulled into the area I was shooting with there RV and told me I was breaking the law and I needed to leave because they were going to camp there.

This particular section of Sitla is posted no trespassing, but I buy an Arizona sitla pass every year so I can legally shoot at this spot.

I told the California people to take a hike. I said if I am breaking the law than they can call the police and I kept shooting.

These idiots called the cops and told them I threatened them with my pistol. I didn't even have a pistol with me so the sheriff immediately knew they were lying. The sheriff gave them a trespassing ticket because they did not have an AZ sitla pass. Same as before, the idiots from Cali were super mad and called us both a bunch of names.

I got a few more stories like this but 2 is enough for today.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

2full said:


> I personally don't have ANY problem with LDS, non LDS. I have all kinds of friends I golf, hunt, and associate with. Always have. I played on a league golf team for several years. The sponsor guy always said his team was 2 Mormons, two Catholics, and 2 Heathens....... I always wondered which one I was ?
> I get along with people. I even enjoy MOST people.
> 
> Spending 46 years in retail, I saw a lot of attitude. Saw a lot of people move in because of what was were and what was built. Then complain and want to change it.
> ...


I understand what you're saying. I was tickled(amused) because when you used the phrase non LDS it appeared to me you were implying they think differently. Not just religious doctrine differently. My personal experience with alot of folks here is they lump any non LDS faith together, like their all the same, but get very offended if someone lumps them with FLDS folks or similar faiths. Thanks for clearing it up.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I like good Californians. I can tell you were one. Not the ones that come here then lecture all of us how we do things.


Maybe Utah is where they send their missionaries.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

ns450f said:


> At least 40%. Definitely lots of Californian's down here that like to tell us locals what we can and can't do.
> 
> Two years ago I was hiking the pine valleys on a forest service trail and had 3 very angry California poop heads tell me it was illegal for me to be on a public trail with my shotgun. Than I saw a grouse, shucked a shell in the chamber, and they took off running. Funny thing is the grouse disappeared also 🤣 .
> 
> ...


I understand, now you know why I don't live there anymore. Hopefully you run across some good ones now and then.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Irish Lad said:


> now you know why I don't live there anymore.


I need to get away also, I am keeping tabs on the hospital in Moab, panguitch, kanab, and Monticello for job openings.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Regarding LDS vs non LDS.

To me it's a non issue if you intergrate yourself into Utah culture and society. My wife is born and raised here, as is most of my extended family. (I was not). I had a lot to learn, but I learned and adapted. Admitdily, my wife gave me all the insider information which made it easier. However, I am not a member of the church, but haven't had any issues because of it. Probably because I learned what is ok, and not ok, and I adapted. Truthfully it wasn't hard for me. My wife says I'd actually be a great mormon, and it's ironic that i'm not. I attend sunday family dinners, I've had my daughter blessed in our home by her Grandfather. I've attended marriages and funerals. My 94 year old father in law, most devout LDS man you will probably ever have met, lived in Utah his whole life, who always bore testiment, passed recently. We buried him yesterday, I was a paul bearer, in a VERY large LDS family.

Reguarding Californians, to be fair, it's not just californians anymore. Your forgetting Washingon and Oregon. But as Californians go, i don't know if i've posted this before, (its LONG), but as a guy who's been into way too many arguments on the internet, it's a canned reply I've had saved on my desktop for the last 4 or 5 years, so the dates are off, but I think you'll get my point.



> The Californication of Utah has been ongoing for the last 3 or 4 years. It's worth noting that native Utahns are hard pressed to buy houses now. The demand far exceeds the supply, and without exaggeration, the house I bought 6 years ago, I could not afford to buy today. Utah is transforming from a place where the quality of life was high, the cost of living was low, and crime was nearly unheard of. That is now being turned on it's head, no thanks to the influx of Californians.
> 
> As hypocritical as it sounds, I hate California, and the majority of the people moving out of there, as only one who was originally from there could - because I understand their mentality, and I know that most of them WILL NOT change their ways, and in fact bring "The PRC" with them. Most of them, have been in the blue kool-aid group think socially engineered aquarium that is California for so long, they are simply unable, or unwilling, to think any other way, and examine their political beliefs as to WHY they are leaving to begin with. They simply won't. If, for a tip of the iceberg example , they leave because of employment, they'll sit there and be mad at Utah for having the job instead of California. Not once will they sit down and think, "Now, why is this business in Utah instead of California?" Far too many of them are proud of California, when they should be ashamed to admit they ever came from there.
> 
> ...


EDIT:
I have failed point 6. There isn't much I, or anyone else can do about it now though. For my part, I never told anyone where I live. I've always kept, and still try to keep, Utah a secret, for whatever good it does now.

Oppose the winter Olympics. That will be the final nail in the coffin.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Your point 6 is good......
Story:
I was working away at the store one morning about 15 years ago and a gentleman started talking to me. He eventually got to where he stated that he didn't like all the California people coming in. (It was just starting to kick into high gear about then). As he continues the conversation he says:
I moved here from California last year. I should have shut and locked the door behind me.
I have always remembered that conversation. It makes me smile every time I think of it.
And it makes me frown when I'm driving around town and see all the growth since then. But, that progress I guess. It's happening everywhere, not just here in Utah. Have to learn to adapt and try to enjoy. Or I'll drive myself crazy. (Short trip)


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

One of the ways rhetoric escalates in dangerous ways is when we start calling people animals or types of pests, ie plague of locusts. As I said, there is a reason to challenge this type of language of us v them. Dehumanizing fellow citizens (or fellow humans in general) in our language is a historically unsubtle transition. Our fellow Americans migrating between states as our people have always done is not a plague.

We are seeing more & more of this type of "****hole country" rhetoric in our discussions and it affects real policy. This type of prejudice and scapegoating of people is hideous behavior.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

2full said:


> Your point 6 is good......
> Story:
> I was working away at the store one morning about 15 years ago and a gentleman started talking to me. He eventually got to where he stated that he didn't like all the California people coming in. (It was just starting to kick into high gear about then). As he continues the conversation he says:
> I moved here from California last year. * I should have shut and locked the door behind me.*


If only it were possible. 



> I have always remembered that conversation. It makes me smile every time I think of it.
> And it makes me frown when I'm driving around town and see all the growth since then. But, that progress I guess. It's happening everywhere, *not just here in Utah. * Have to learn to adapt and try to enjoy. Or I'll drive myself crazy. (Short trip)


It's everywhere now. Idaho, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Tennessee, South Dakota, just to name a few. The one bright spot, at least i think, Utah hasn't been hit as hard as other places. Covid kicked a trend into overdrive. I saw the writing on the wall before covid. If it were possible, i'd have already moved. I still dream of Alaska, but the reality is, there really isn't anywhere to go anymore, especially in todays housing market. Might as well make a stand and defend Utah. Home is the thing *most *worth fighting for in my book; Utahns need to speak out before they lose it.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Regarding LDS vs non LDS.
> 
> To me it's a non issue if you intergrate yourself into Utah culture and society. My wife is born and raised here, as is most of my extended family. (I was not). I had a lot to learn, but I learned and adapted. Admitdily, my wife gave me all the insider information which made it easier. However, I am not a member of the church, but haven't had any issues because of it. Probably because I learned what is ok, and not ok, and I adapted. Truthfully it wasn't hard for me. My wife says I'd actually be a great mormon, and it's ironic that i'm not. I attend sunday family dinners, I've had my daughter blessed in our home by her Grandfather. I've attended marriages and funerals. My 94 year old father in law, most devout LDS man you will probably ever have met, lived in Utah his whole life, who always bore testiment, passed recently. We buried him yesterday, I was a paul bearer, in a VERY large LDS family.
> 
> ...


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Well, not sure how that happened but my comments got added to the last half of Lone Hunters post.
To be fair to LH, the comments about the Olympics and water conservation are mine, not his.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I keep my grass green, maybe not bright green, but green. It has practical value, I use the clippings for compost, and to spread around the garden boxes to keep the weeds down. Chicken scat and grass to feed the garden, garden helps feeds us and the chickens, chickens provide eggs and scat, and round and round it goes. Yeah, i like my lawn, it's part of the process.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I agree about the olympics


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Regarding LDS vs non LDS.
> 
> To me it's a non issue if you intergrate yourself into Utah culture and society. My wife is born and raised here, as is most of my extended family. (I was not). I had a lot to learn, but I learned and adapted. Admitdily, my wife gave me all the insider information which made it easier. However, I am not a member of the church, but haven't had any issues because of it. Probably because I learned what is ok, and not ok, and I adapted. Truthfully it wasn't hard for me. My wife says I'd actually be a great mormon, and it's ironic that i'm not. I attend sunday family dinners, I've had my daughter blessed in our home by her Grandfather. I've attended marriages and funerals. My 94 year old father in law, most devout LDS man you will probably ever have met, lived in Utah his whole life, who always bore testiment, passed recently. We buried him yesterday, I was a paul bearer, in a VERY large LDS family.
> 
> ...


I too had insider information as my maternal side has been here several generations and we made many trips here growing up. Like I stated in an earlier post a very few were quite challenging. It wouldn't be fair of me to lump all Utahns together like some folks like to do with Californians.
Some folks have posted bad behavior of Californians here. Here's an example of bad behavior that happened to us. The Stake President encouraged us to go to the Pioneer Day celebration. He said it's a city event put on by the LDS church. The wife, my grandson and mother were on the hayride tour around town. A couple came up to me and he said you don't belong here. I asked why and he said this is a Mormon holiday and a Mormon town. I just smiled( he had no idea that my maternal side were pioneers to Utah) and walked away. A little while later while in the food line a man came out from cooking and introduced himself as one of the Bishops. He couldn't have been nicer or more welcoming. I could give other examples from the last 20 plus years, but by far most folks have been great. I'll be quiet now and just be amused by the California bashing some folks like to do.
Bigotry and discrimination is wrong regardless of who is dong it.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Irish Lad said:


> I too had insider information as my maternal side has been here several generations and we made many trips here growing up. Like I stated in an earlier post a very few were quite challenging. It wouldn't be fair of me to lump all Utahns together like some folks like to do with Californians.
> Some folks have posted bad behavior of Californians here. Here's an example of bad behavior that happened to us. The Stake President encouraged us to go to the Pioneer Day celebration. He said it's a city event put on by the LDS church. The wife, my grandson and mother were on the hayride tour around town. A couple came up to me and he said you don't belong here. I asked why and he said this is a Mormon holiday and a Mormon town. I just smiled( he had no idea that my maternal side were pioneers to Utah) and walked away. A little while later while in the food line a man came out from cooking and introduced himself as one of the Bishops. He couldn't have been nicer or more welcoming. I could give other examples from the last 20 plus years, but by far most folks have been great. I'll be quiet now and just be amused by the California bashing some folks like to do.
> Bigotry and discrimination is wrong regardless of who is dong it.


I moved here from Louisiana to ski 20 years ago. It didn't take long for this place to beat the friendly out of me. When you're not part of the fold you are treated differently in the neighborhoods. This has since changed and I have several good neighbors and friends that are LDS but still it's not a welcoming place. When I return to the south it takes me a bit to remember how to smile, say hello and be friendly with strangers. It doesn't take any time for me to remember how good the food is.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Everyone has a strange perspective on immigration - especially given how the country and state itself came to exist. Brigham Young wasn't a Utah native - do you share the same sentiment?

I understand the fear of "migrating politics" but it's not like we have politicians here that are anything to call home about. Regardless, if they are _*"californians who hunt" - *_since this is a hunting forum - they likely aren't what you actually fear.

If you want better hunting opportunity it's the state you should have beef with, not Utah residents.



Also, this gives you some facts on the state and residency:








How Utahn is Utah? Here’s how many are ‘homegrown’ — and if that’s changing


It’s a common — if not cliche — complaint: Californians are moving here in droves, and they’re to blame for traffic jams, overcrowding and skyrocketing home prices. But how much of that is actually true? Let’s dig in to the numbers.




www.deseret.com


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Sorry, my comments had nothing to do with/about hunting. I was referring to attitude. I guess I got off subject. I will keep in mind this is a hunting forum.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> I understand the fear of "migrating politics" but it's not like we have politicians here that are anything to call home about. Regardless, if they are _*"californians who hunt" - *_since this is a hunting forum - they likely aren't what you actually fear.


You must be from California!


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

RandomElk16 said:


> Everyone has a strange perspective on immigration - especially given how the country and state itself came to exist. Brigham Young wasn't a Utah native - do you share the same sentiment?
> 
> I understand the fear of "migrating politics" but it's not like we have politicians here that are anything to call home about. Regardless, if they are _*"californians who hunt" - *_since this is a hunting forum - they likely aren't what you actually fear.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link, interesting read.

Let the bashing of Idahoans and Wyomingites begin!!😁😁


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> You must be from California!


Nope, Born and raised right here.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

We're going to have to inspect your birth certificate. I'm guessing this is fake news! 


(I'm joking, of course!)


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

RandomElk16 said:


> Brigham Young wasn't a Utah native - do you share the same sentiment?


WTF does Brigham Young have to do with it?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

ns450f said:


> WTF does Brigham Young have to do with it?


Prominant figure in our state's history that also immigrated here. I thought that part was obvious?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I’d get rid of Brigham Young University. It’s responsible for a ton of the other states people coming here! 

GO UTES!


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I’d get rid of Brigham Young University. It’s responsible for a ton of the other states people coming here!
> 
> GO UTES!


 That was funny!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> I’d get rid of Brigham Young University. It’s responsible for a ton of the other states people coming here!
> 
> GO UTES!


PM lol


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## magpie (Aug 15, 2011)

Where is this unit? Usually takes my brother and I 4-5 years to draw. Sounds like I’m applying for the wrong unit.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

magpie said:


> Where is this unit? Usually takes my brother and I 4-5 years to draw. Sounds like I’m applying for the wrong unit.


That's because the hipsters and latino's are taking your tags!!


(Complete sarcasm, btw)


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## Dbilbao (Feb 17, 2021)

MooseMeat said:


> If you shared the unit I Maybe could give you a possibility


San Juan Abajo.


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## Dbilbao (Feb 17, 2021)

ridgetop said:


> If you put in as a group, the chance of not drawing increases. I'm guessing those who didn't draw,
> were part of a group app.


That is why we never do. It has always worked until this year...


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## Dbilbao (Feb 17, 2021)

RandomElk16 said:


> One of my really good friends might look "out of place" on the mountain. He grew up in a very urban heavily hispanic area. His family always fished though and he thought the mountains were awesome so the outdoor curiousity has always been there. When he decided to take up hunting I offered any help he needed. He researched and took hunter safety, researched and bought his own weapons, looked into units -- everything. Put himself in the draw too, and some on here still think that's rocket science. Found his own public land to go to.
> 
> Well despite me knowing his first unit great and all my offers, he didn't call me until after a rainstorm filled week in which he solo camped in a tent in walmart camo and such. Said he had a deer which, after maybe the worlds worst gut job (most peoples first isn't great), he dragged whole to his truck by himself. He just wasn't ready for the next steps but wanted to process it ON HIS OWN.
> 
> ...


Not being entitled, Just simply stating that if you went out and knocked all the doors in town you would surely find that there is only a small fraction of the population that hunt, and an ever smaller fraction that put in for a muzzleloader hunt in the very most outskirts of Utah, I was genuinely surprised by the failure to draw, not pissed off, just surprised. By the way nice soap box


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## Dbilbao (Feb 17, 2021)

BPturkeys said:


> All I read here is a hate filled, racist, over entitled person looking to vent his frustration with the draw system. You start right out with "where MY tag went"...your tag, really? Somehow you feel you are "entitled" to a tag because you are a "hunter", not just another person that wants to go hunting...you are "entitled" because you have drawn a tag every year for 20 years...you are "entitled" because you are not a hipster or cholo(whatever that is) or you are "entitled" just because you go hunting with your family...what you don't think "hipsters and cholos" don't hunt with their families? I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.
> 
> Wow, maybe one of the worst posts that ever hit this sight.
> 
> Let it be known that you do not represent the average, typical person that uses this sight.


LOL, seriously RACIST? I am married to a mexican, my kids are all brown and I am second generation in the US. I am the last person I would call racist. Not being entitled either, Just simply stating that if you went out and knocked all the doors in town you would surely find that there is only a small fraction of the population that hunt, and an ever smaller fraction that put in for a muzzleloader hunt in the very most outskirts of Utah, I was genuinely surprised by the failure to draw, not pissed off, just surprised. I don't give a poop what the person looks like, I just threw it out there to see if anyone else feels the same way. That being, yes the population has increased, I just never would have guessed they were hunters


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Dbilbao said:


> San Juan Abajo.


Closest unit to Mexico in Utah. Apply north. You might get another hunt or 2 with the bros before the cholos swarm us. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

All this talk about Cholo's and i'm reminded of high school in the late 80s early 90s, and I have to laugh now. Cholo wall, that's what it was called. It's where all the cholo's hung out, all wearing "the uniform". You didn't walk on front of it either unless you wanted an asswhooping. Good times? Heck considering the present day, yeah.. good times.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Lone_Hunter said:


> All this talk about Cholo's and i'm reminded of high school in the late 80s early 90s, and I have to laugh now. Cholo wall, that's what it was called. It's where all the cholo's hung out, all wearing "the uniform". You didn't walk on front of it either unless you wanted an asswhooping. Good times? Heck considering the present day, yeah.. good times.


I went to jr high and freshman year of high school in Southern California in the late 80s early 90s and the posole’s were to be respected and that’s what I did. I learned later in life that posole is a soup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey, I'm part Mexican.....my grandfather was born in Juarez. I'm dark skinned and USED to be dark haired. (Kind of gone gray in my old age). Actually hair is still pretty dark, but beard is very salty. 
This is starting to sound kind of racist..... 😁 🤣
But, I'm not offended......😎


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Dbilbao said:


> Not being entitled, Just simply stating that if you went out and knocked all the doors in town you would surely find that there is only a small fraction of the population that hunt, and an ever smaller fraction that put in for a muzzleloader hunt in the very most outskirts of Utah, I was genuinely surprised by the failure to draw, not pissed off, just surprised. By the way nice soap box


Telling a story that closely relates and debunks the prejudice in your OP isn't a soapbox.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Dbilbao said:


> LOL, seriously RACIST? I am married to a mexican, my kids are all brown and I am second generation in the US. I am the last person I would call racist. Not being entitled either, Just simply stating that if you went out and knocked all the doors in town you would surely find that there is only a small fraction of the population that hunt, and an ever smaller fraction that put in for a muzzleloader hunt in the very most outskirts of Utah, I was genuinely surprised by the failure to draw, not pissed off, just surprised. I don't give a poop what the person looks like, I just threw it out there to see if anyone else feels the same way. That being, yes the population has increased, I just never would have guessed they were hunters


I guess marrying a hispanic woman and being a second generation american excludes you from being racist and entitled no matter how derogatory the names you use are or the tone of your post is.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Haven't you heard? Only white people are racist. POC's are incapable of it, and are therefore superior.

edit:
I am so weary of virtue signalling, and how everything is racist now. This is racist.. that is racist, it's been overused so freaking much, the word has lost all meaning. When people start ditching the hyphen, that's when your getting somewhere.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Nah. The word racism still means something. And it’s not all that difficult to spot.

Racism is deplorable. All forms of it. It means something, and it’s ugly.


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## Drizzle08 (Sep 30, 2016)

Getting a tag is only going to worse sad to say. One of my big things I've noticed whoever or where ever they are from I've seen a lot of I can do what i want from hunters now days going around closed road signs parking in middle of roads leaving trash everywhere. Cutting down trees over roads. Idk how.many guys I seen last year looking at us through scopes on their guns. Also I think the new hunters now days have high expectations from what they see on Facebook and YouTube and not expect the difficulty part that it can take to get a trophy or any animal. Then get on Facebook and complain at how there aren't any animals and to many people. Had a coworker from California that bought a tag and when I told him how to take care of one once you shoot it he didn't want anything to do with it said I thought you just shot them.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

"I thought you just shot them" sheeeeesh hopefully we can kindly encourage those people that this isn't for them.


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## pollo70 (Aug 15, 2016)

Ever since the draw system was implemented I've always put in for the Box Elder unit GS rifle Buck. to this date including this year being one I have been unsuccessful 2 times and I put in as a group with my Son and four of my cousins also put in as well with 4 in their group they have been successful every year including this year where I didn't draw, I am bummed out 😩 but not mad! being it's just a GS tag not a limited entry tag which is understanding if you don't draw and I don't blame know one that's why it's called a draw and I am Hispanic as well.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

With videos like this making the rounds on the internet, its little wonder things are going to crap.





edit:
LOL, oh man.....


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## Soligue (May 28, 2013)

I agree with much of what has already been said about the entitlement attitude. Welcome to mid-1970’s Nevada when quotas came on the scene. Get used to it. I was born and raised in Nevada and still live in Nevada. Talk about Californians? I moved to Bend OR for a short time in the late 1970’s and “Californians go home” was the favorite graffiti. Lot of good that did. Western Nevada referred to Californians as prune pickers back then. You guys in Utah just got a 40 year reprieve. Increases in population and migration to the rural (and not so rural) west is the issue. Play the tag game and take up other small game opportunities…or just complain, whichever you prefer.


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