# Why not Strawberry or...



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Here is a catch from a couple days ago from my brother up in Washington.

I can only ask...why is Utah still trying to make a great fishery out of some of our lakes and not planting these guys? 
If we planted about half as many of those stupid Cutthroats and planted these in a few lakes...well, you tell me. 

triploids rainbows...can you imagine how well these babies would do in strawberry or FG.

Strawberry has always been known to grow great big fat rainbows...that could be you in that picture in a few years if the DWR would stop the love-a-fair with cutts!

Oh and by the way, yea, they really are that big. No arms held out far in front or stuff like that


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Your picture isn't showing up for me. (OK, now it worked)


The DWR has planted "triploid" rainbows in there. (XXX chromosome) Maybe they still are. It was/is done so they don't interbreed with the stupid cutts. They grow plenty fat in the Berry, it is true, but not many tend to get that big because they get harvested pretty dang near the first time they get caught. Triploids also wouldn't grow very much in a lake full of chubs either, which is why the stupid cutts are there in the first place. 

FWIW, some of us like cutts. :smile: 

Addendum; there are a couple of different "triploid" types, but it doesn't alter the original argument.


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## turkinator (May 25, 2008)

Wow! Those are some fat bows!


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Love me some fat rainbows but also love the focus on native fisheries.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Why not Strawberry? 

I'd say that because when they manage Strawberry as primarily a rainbow fishery, they have to treat it to get rid of all the chubs. Wasn't that part of the issue there in the first place that resulted in shifting to a primarily cutthroat fishery? 

I may be oversimplifying it, but rainbows have not shown the capacity to control chub populations here in our Utah lakes.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

The truth is that Strawberry probably could consistently produce larger rainbows, even with the cutts present. The regulations and pressure simply do not allow it. The Berry is managed for rainbows to be harvested and the high pressure insures they quickly are. 

Back when I was going to a lot of fishing RAC meetings, it was apparent that putting bows in the slot would not be a popular move and it also is apparent slot limits are unpopular by many, in spite of effectiveness, as evinced by endless participants droning on and on about how unfair it is that they can't keep a bunch of Berry fish and requesting a change in regs.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm tired of the Cuts in the Berry too. Seems that 9 out of 10 fish you land are Cuts. You notice that rarely a 28" Cut or larger show up on the line? I was told by a Biologist that the species of Cut in the Reservoir will more than likely never grow longer than the slot size. They want it that way so the fish will be let loose to eat the Chubs. 


The "Berry" has become one of the waters I will only fish maybe once or twice a year. Simply for the reason of the slot. Tired of catching fish that I have to release and not take home now and again to have as a meal. Schofield has become another Strawberry, just 1/8 the size.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The slot saved Strawberry as a fishery. That is a plain and simple fact.


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## TOgden (Sep 10, 2007)

I think it has already been stated that there could be some rainbows that size coming out of Strawberry if folks wouldn't keep everyone they catch.

I know people don't care for the slot limits , not just at Strawberry but everywhere that they have them. This state has always been famous for the hookem and cookem crowd and feel that it's a waste of time to fish for anything you can't keep.

It's like Vanilla said, without the slot on the cutthroats the chubs would take over again.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Strawberry did produce rainbows like the ones in the photos during the mid-late 1990s (after the treatment). Not sure if the sterilization technique was the same as the one used today. It would be fun if it could come back.

Some of the largest rainbows I've ever seen came from Upper Stillwater Res in the late 1990s. Average fish was 6lbs. Some 10+. They were sterile rainbows and it was amazing. Then the launch ramp was closed and they stopped stocking it. 

There are so few large rainbow producing lakes, it would be nice to have more.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm going to show my age again.

Back in the late 60's and into the 70's before they treated Strawberry there were monster rainbows and Yellowstone cuts or whatever spieces they were at the time. Every year you would hear of someone catching them. And there was one or two of them hanging in the boat houses in the camps.

Deer Creek also produced big rainbows but you never hear of them anymore 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Of course there were monster rainbows after the treatment. They got huge with no competition for the food base. And then those rainbows didn’t control the chubs and they became not monster rainbows and the fishery went to crap. We’ve seen that cycle at Strawberry more than one time. And TOgden is correct that if you want bigger rainbows in the Berry, don’t keep every one you catch. 

I will agree that a trophy rainbow fishery is a lot of fun. They aren’t easy to maintain without regulations that most people hate.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Has anyone seen any results from the gillnet surveys that the DWR do each year. 

I tried a search but only came up with one from 10 years ago. There was one from Deer Creek that was in The Daily Heard from the first of this month but it really didn't say anything 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

One of my fishing buddies regularly communicates with the DWR managing biologist over Strawberry and he routinely forwards me the results of the conversations. I'm not comfortable posting up the entire conversations verbatim, but I believe it is OK to post up a few nuggets from the 2018 gillnetting data. (and back)

1. In the 2018 sampling, 17% of the sampled cutts were over 22 inches. The biologist notes that a large number of cutts get harvested once they hit legal slot buster size, limiting the number of really big ones, but some 10-16 lb fish still show up. 

2. The ratio of rainbow to cutts that year was 20%-80%. (20% bows/80% cutts)
Rainbows are more numerous on the Soldier Creek side.

3. The chub numbers in the Berry have been stable since 2004. The slot is working, in spite of all the whining. (My comment, not the biologist)


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Triploids and wipers for Strawberry.
Win/win.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Hookem and Cookem, no slot, take what you want. LOL :shock:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> Hookem and Cookem, no slot, take what you want. LOL :shock:


I'm actually okay with it. The law allows people to do that with rainbows, so I won't say people can't. But when we know many at the busiest water in all of Utah have this mentality, it shouldn't be a surprise that the huge trophy rainbows are tough to find.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

people are funny.


How can anyone honestly look at Strawberry and ask to change it? Only those with a very limited understanding would do this.




It's a very simple formula. Really. If you want big fish you simply have to reduce the population size. That's it. So, remove all the regulations at Strawberry. Allow a standard 4 trout limit regardless of species or size. Start thinning out that population. As population numbers dwindle, average size will start to go up. Chub populations would follow. Pretty soon, you'd end up with lots, and lots, and lots of chubs, and very few trout. But man! Those trout would get big! 

BUT -- guess what happens as soon as you start to see some big trout? That's right: anglers show up again. And guess what anglers do? They go to the DWR and say "we have to protect those big trout!". So then you end up with people asking to change the regulations -- those very regulations that provided an opportunity for those trout to grow big (ie: Willow Bottoms on Boulder Mountain). So now we go back to special regs that "protects" fish, forcing anglers to catch-and-release. Now your population size starts to increase, and average fish size decreases. Eventually you're right back where you started.

fun cycle, eh?






Hey -- remember when the Colorado below Lake Powell consistently produced rainbows around 10lbs? Yep -- back in the mid 70's, that fishery was phenomenal for large rainbows. And anglers wanted them protected. Today you can't find a fish over 16". :noidea:


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

There's Cutts in Strawberry? Huh...we just keep catching these things through the ice :noidea:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

gdog, I need to ice fish with you!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

gdog said:


> There's Cutts in Strawberry? Huh...we just keep catching these things through the ice :noidea:


Those can't be any good to catch or eat. They aren't some triploid, tetroid, frankenfish created by man that has unlimited growth if added to water. 

I"M headed up to the Berry in an hour to see if I can catch some stupid cutts and whatever else wants to bite. Late start dt a Doctors appointment, but it has been weird up there and some afternoons have been good.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Those can't be any good to catch or eat. They aren't some triploid, tetroid, frankenfish created by man that has unlimited growth if added to water.


Yeah...Kokes are terrible to eat. Especially this last batch I just smoked.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Those can't be any good to catch or eat. They aren't some triploid, tetroid, frankenfish created by man that has unlimited growth if added to water.
> 
> I"M headed up to the Berry in an hour to see if I can catch some stupid cutts and whatever else wants to bite. Late start dt a Doctors appointment, but it has been weird up there and some afternoons have been good.


Nasty tasting Kokes anyway.....Just another trash fish. 8)


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks gdog, now I'm craving smoked koke


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

gdog said:


> Yeah...Kokes are terrible to eat. Especially this last batch I just smoked.


Yeah, uh, any leftovers? :EAT:

In spite of the late start and only fishing 4 hours, my buddy and I caught 40 between us. Which, I guess, returns me to where the thread started. How many places in the US can you go to a place an hours drive from population centers, where you can catch 20,30,40, or even 50 trout in an outing with almost all of them being over 16 inches long? And the said place maintains its quality in spite of pretty heavy fishing pressure. It also accommodates the harvest crowd as best it can with bows, kokes, and under and over slotter cutts. I just don't get it and get a bit puzzled when so many people are constantly clamoring to change it with fuzzy memories of days gone past (that weren't sustainable) and questionable science.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Catherder said:


> Yeah, uh, any leftovers? :EAT:
> 
> In spite of the late start and only fishing 4 hours, my buddy and I caught 40 between us. Which, I guess, returns me to where the thread started. How many places in the US can you go to a place an hours drive from population centers, where you can catch 20,30,40, or even 50 trout in an outing with almost all of them being over 16 inches long? And the said place maintains its quality in spite of pretty heavy fishing pressure.


I can name about 30 within 25 minutes of my house :mrgreen:


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

johnnycake said:


> I can name about 30 within 25 minutes of my house :mrgreen:


Yeah, yeah, Ok, continental US.

Now go play with your booklet of big game tags.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Cath, I can tell you that the "fuzzy memories of days gone past" are that far gone. Before the expansion to what the reservoir is now, I don't remember catching one chub. However I remember catching 6+ pound Cut-bows. Even a Brook Trout where the Badger Bay spring was located. 


We would troll with the "ORIGINAL" Strawberry Wobbler in a copper/black/green pattern and hammer the bigger fish near the willow line and small island that was out from the East Portal. 


I tried the wobbler a few years ago and the "new fish" in the water didn't take it like I remember. Even tried it on Kokes, and only had one taker. I have an old metal tackle box full of wobblers. Painted and blanks needing paint. I also have the press to make them that was used by the sign maker (Clyed) at the East Portal shop. I remember him making and painting them on Fridays. Great times fishing with the old timers from the water users association.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> Cath, I can tell you that the "fuzzy memories of days gone past" are that far gone. Before the expansion to what the reservoir is now,_ I don't remember catching one chub_.
> ...
> 
> We would troll with the "ORIGINAL" Strawberry Wobbler in a copper/black/green pattern and hammer the bigger fish near the willow line and small island that was out from the East Portal.


Just a question Taxidermist: how often did you try to catch chubs? Maybe you were using the wrong lure? That strawberry wobbler may have been the wrong attractant for catching chubs. :noidea:

what nobody can dispute is that the project of treating Strawberry reservoir followed by "new" management plans with regulations intended to protect fish with the goal of keeping the chub population in check have been wildly successful. I mean, that project was way back in the early 90's! That's 30 years ago!! Combine that with Panguitch Lake, which followed the same recipe, and you get another 15 years of success!

I'm with Catherder. I just don't understand anyone questioning the success of Strawberry. Oh well.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I think the current Strawberry management is a success and at the same time I can wish for more of those 3-5lb rainbows. Doesn't mean my wish will come true and it doesn't mean I dislike fishing Strawberry. 

Part of the original post did ask why can't this be done in other lakes. And that is a fair question. Identify lakes which could support an increased population of sterile rainbows and give it a go. Those lakes won't be Strawberry or FG and maybe there aren't more lakes which can grow them. In fairness- we do have a couple producing xl rainbows. 
..


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

One last comment (probably). I too have some memories as a kid of fishing the "old" Strawberry in a boat and catching chunky fish. However, the historical record is clear that even the "Old" Berry had ups and downs and required multiple treatments. Applying some rigor to my memory also reminded me that there was a reason that everyone was fishing Soldier Creek in the late 70's before the lakes merged. I also have very fresh memories of catching pig rainbows out of Scofield too, but I doubt too many people will argue that it is in a good place right now. 

The point is that I would much rather put faith in a graph from the biologists showing that the chub population has been stable for 17 years with accompanying fishing excellence over some selective memories of folks getting along in years (myself included) of stuff that happened in the Johnson and Nixon administrations. :V|:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Packout said:


> In fairness- we do have a couple producing xl rainbows...


Let's go conduct a study. I'll drive and pay for the gas.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

One more item. This is a paper describing how they made triploid rainbows used in the Berry and elsewhere.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/fes/pdf/volume_12-2.pdf

I have heard that they use a different sterilization method now, so I'm not sure if the paper is current, but the point is that triploids are not strangers to the Berry.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Just a question Taxidermist: how often did you try to catch chubs? Maybe you were using the wrong lure? That strawberry wobbler may have been the wrong attractant for catching chubs. :noidea:

Oh ya for sure the Wobbler wouldn't work for the chubs. It was the bait fisherman that would catch the chubs drowning a worm. I've hooked more chubs at Schofield than I ever did at the berry. That was on the ice using a small jig tipped with bait.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

What are they doing at Henrys Lake?? That would be a good resource to share information in management.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> Cath, I can tell you that the "fuzzy memories of days gone past" are that far gone. Before the expansion to what the reservoir is now, I don't remember catching one chub. However I remember catching 6+ pound Cut-bows.


We'd load up on huge bow's until the scent in the water got too bad and the chubs moved in. At that point thats all we'd land and have to move.



> Even a Brook Trout where the Badger Bay spring was located.


Have one mounted on my wall as we speak. Original 'Berry Brookie.



> We would troll with the "ORIGINAL" Strawberry Wobbler in a copper/black/green pattern and hammer the bigger fish near the willow line and small island that was out from the East Portal.
> 
> I tried the wobbler a few years ago and the "new fish" in the water didn't take it like I remember. Even tried it on Kokes, and only had one taker. I have an old metal tackle box full of wobblers. Painted and blanks needing paint. I also have the press to make them that was used by the sign maker (Clyed) at the East Portal shop. I remember him making and painting them on Fridays. Great times fishing with the old timers from the water users association.


Want to sell one? I had one remaining and somehow its misplaced. You cant find lures like those anymore, it was fun to show people those old beer can sized things. The green w/ black spots was my best producer. I just want one to hang on my wall of memories... lol.

A good lure to use at Strawberry with the current fish are either the black / brass or bright orange RoosterTails. I rarely ever see people using those anymore, but they still work amazing. The Black / Green or the Cream / Tan Roosters are the shiznit on Deer Creek as well.

-DallanC


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> What are they doing at Henrys Lake?? That would be a good resource to share information in management.


How much does Henry's Lake fluctuate in water levels? I mean, just compare the water at Henry's Lake and compare it to any water in Utah. What comparisons are there? A large, shallow lake with relatively minor water level fluctuations. How do you copy that?

What are they doing at Minersville? That would be another good resource to collaborate on.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Catherder said:


> Yeah, yeah, Ok, continental US.
> 
> Now go play with your booklet of big game tags.


Alaska's still part of the continent... Perhaps you meant contiguous states 8)

But really, I don't get the cutthroat hate. They are beautiful fish, and I really dig catching native species in their native range. I wish I had spent more time learning the Berry when I was in Utah. It is a pretty cool place. Got to love being able to put your then 2 year old daughter on a 19" fish.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> ... and I really dig catching native species in their native range.


Hmmm.....and the original picture in this thread was showing rainbows from the state of Washington. Imagine that? native species in their native range. What a novel concept.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> I can only ask...why is Utah still trying to make a great fishery out of some of our lakes and not planting these guys?
> If we planted about half as many of those stupid Cutthroats and planted these in a few lakes...well, you tell me.
> 
> triploids rainbows...can you imagine how well these babies would do in strawberry or FG.


Well, my understanding is that Utah has ONLY stocked triploids in northern Utah for quite a few years. And, with that, both Flaming Gorge and Strawberry have triploid rainbows.

Triploids, though, aren't good for every lake though...
http://digitallibrary.utah.gov/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=21256


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

PBH said:


> Hmmm.....and the original picture in this thread was showing rainbows from the state of Washington. Imagine that? native species in their native range. What a novel concept.


There are native rainbows and then there are triploid rainbows. I get way more excited over a +20" native, wild rainbow than I do over a larger Frankenbow


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> There are native rainbows and then there are triploid rainbows. I get way more excited over a +20" native, wild rainbow than I do over a larger Frankenbow


In theory, of course. You've never caught a +20" native, wild rainbow.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

View attachment 146237


Vanilla said:


> In theory, of course. You've never caught a +20" native, wild rainbow.


Au contraire.

Here's a 24.5" through the hard deck last March on a wild, never stocked lake ten minutes from my house. That lake is about to start getting good again for big bows here in another couple weeks. To say nothing of the big bows we get into on the Kenai.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Looks stunted.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I thought they were called steelhead once they got over 20"?

FWIW -- here's my stunted hatchery raised and stocked rainbow from Utah last week:










How do you tell the difference between a hatchery rainbow stocked as a fingerling vs. a wild rainbow? Inquiring minds want to know...


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Well, my understanding is that Utah has ONLY stocked triploids in northern Utah for quite a few years. And, with that, both Flaming Gorge and Strawberry have triploid rainbows.


Well... I guess we should be stocking kamloops then....


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> Well... I guess we should be stocking kamloops then....


Not just kamloops, *Triploid* Kamloops. State record would be broken in no time.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Not just kamloops, *Triploid* Kamloops. State record would be broken in no time.


Triploid kamloops crossed with a cutthroat. Kamloops hybrid vigor cuttbows!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I think what Mr. Tushy is saying is that the rainbows he catches up in the Great White North are native for the area. I don't know how much stocking Alaska does of the non sea run rainbows one catches up there, including the Kenai.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Catherder said:


> I think what Mr. Tushy is saying is that the rainbows he catches up in the Great White North are native for the area. I don't know how much stocking Alaska does of the non sea run rainbows one catches up there, including the Kenai.


Just ignore him.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> View attachment 146237
> 
> 
> Au contraire.
> ...


The fish in your pic looks like a hatchery fish...the dorsal fin and ventral fins are both kinda nubby like it was raised in a concrete raceway.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

IDK why you all mess with those eels. Target the fatties:










https://www.bendbulletin.com/lifest...cle_e59d4493-07fa-5e05-9971-416e4118a5d4.html

-DallanC


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

DallanC said:


> IDK why you all mess with those eels. Target the fatties:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, more frankenfish.

https://www.wired.com/2009/09/biotechfishing/


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

PBH said:


> I thought they were called steelhead once they got over 20"?
> 
> FWIW -- here's my stunted hatchery raised and stocked rainbow from Utah last week:
> 
> ...


Gorgeous fish.

And the way to know is whether rainbows have ever been stocked in a waterbody. And the lakes and streams where that spawning porker rubbed her fins down on the gravel are a wild, never stocked trophy rainbow drainage. Makes it easy to know that it wasn't planted as a fingerling or larger. Same with the Kenai. There are plenty of stocked rainbows in other lakes up here too, but they don't rev my engine the same way native ones do.

Soft serve is just jealous


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