# Berger or Barnes?



## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

What do you lung shooters go for? I'm not much of an "anchor them w/ shoulder shots" type of hunter. i've always liked my nosler ballistic tips in the lungs but have my reservations about the lead so last year i changed to barnes ttsx. i'm loading for a new rifle now and am rethinking my decision. so, if you were shooting for the back of the heart and double lungs, which one would you choose? 

most shots are 75 yards out to 400. i have taken longer shots under ideal conditions but like to reserve those for my steel targets. when target shooting i do like the idea of the high BC vld's. (7mm rem mag)


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I used a Burger last year on Elk and it tore the he!! out of it. 763 yard shot and dropped like a rock.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Bergers are designed for the fad long range shooters. They have poor performance at closer ranges. I have seen the results many times when an animal is shot at close range and the bullet explodes with minimal penetration. Barnes would be the choice out of those two. 

I like the Partitions in the 7mm family of calibers. 

Animals aren't Gongs.......


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

Although I'm not a "long range shooter", I've had excellent results with the Barnes TTSX bullets on elk and deer. I have no reason to use anything else at this point. This was my wife @ 250 yards on this deer. She was shooting my Christensen Arms Mesa in a .300 Win Mag using Barnes VOR-TX 180gn TTSX factory loads...


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

You don’t have to be a fad long range shooter to use the Berger’s though. I have used them for a few years on elk. One bull went right down from around 350 yards and another at about 150ish. They are designed to break apart on impact and create a large devastating wound channel so they aren’t for everyone. Some people call them burgers because that is what they do to your animal. 


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I think the real question is what do you want the bullet to do, have enough energy to punch in and out of the animal (Barnes) or dump all it’s energy inside the animal (Berger)? 

I’ve shot animals with both the VLD and TTSX at ranges of 50 yards to 607 yards - all the animals ended up dead and only one needing a follow-up (buck antelope at 80 yards with the TTSX).


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I used Berger for a long time. Don't really consider myself a "fad long range shooter". I have shot cow elk at close range with them. They are through and through if you miss bone, but never had a problem. I have also been fortunate that they are typically double lung/heart shots though so maybe they could fail? I feel like rounds are judged when you aren't even in the ballpark of kill zone. You have what, 9" diameter on a deer and 12"+ on an elk? 

I ALWAYS am willing to try new rounds. Spent some time with the Accubond alongside the Berger. For hunting I would carry both since sub-400 the accubond shot great even being sighted for the Berger.

Since then I have LOVED Barnes. It started with their ML bullets, and after seeing how absolutely destructive of a wound channel they left I tried the Vor-TX and it shoots amazing. I haven't stretched it past 750 yet, but for hunting I have loved it. I had full confidence on my elk hunt last season and it took one shot to a big bodied bull. One round. The exit wounds are HUGE.


If you are hunting sub-500, I think the Barnes would be a great option. They are lethal, and significantly cheaper. I also hunt primarily with a 7RM (well, when it's a rifle hunt anyways). Past 500 it's not necessarily a MUST, but it's good to have a round designed to expand at those velocities. Bergers are designed for impact velocities that are are consistent with >500 yard shots.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

CPAjeff said:


> I think the real question is what do you want the bullet to do, have enough energy to punch in and out of the animal (Barnes) or dump all it's energy inside the animal (Berger)?
> 
> I've shot animals with both the VLD and TTSX at ranges of 50 yards to 607 yards - all the animals ended up dead and only one needing a follow-up (buck antelope at 80 yards with the TTSX).


I think the VLD is a good choice for elk if you're a shoot him in the lungs guy because of this. You can devastate the entire pulmonary system and send him down in a hurry because there is an enormous shock they take when all the energy dumps inside them. Hit him in the shoulder and he will probably run for awhile.

I don't recommend them for deer...not at all!!! Trust me on this please....what a mess!!

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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying anyone who shoots Bergers is a "fad long range shooter". But that the bullet was created/came into the mainstream, by a long range shooting company. It seems to have been designed to perform at longer ranges. Problem is when the animal is too close then the bullet does not perform as designed.

And one only needed to walk thru 1/4 of the expo to see that long range hunting is the latest and greatest fad in the hunting world. hahaha


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Packout said:


> Just to clarify, I wasn't saying anyone who shoots Bergers is a "fad long range shooter". But that the bullet was created/came into the mainstream, by a long range shooting company. It seems to have been designed to perform at longer ranges. Problem is when the animal is too close then the bullet does not perform as designed.
> 
> And one only needed to walk thru 1/4 of the expo to see that long range hunting is the latest and greatest fad in the hunting world. hahaha


Both are accurate and fair assessments lol. Many of the "Long Range" companies at the expo that "build" on factory platforms don't even true the actions or bed the guns. They cerekote, put it in a McMillan, and do load development for you with a Turret scope. Super custom stuff lol. The ones that actually build want $10K.

Every bullet is constructed and shaped to have a "best" impact velocity for it to perform. Like my post said, and you are saying, for Berger that "best" is well beyond 500 yards.

That's why I have had pass throughs on elk where the bullet hole, entry and exit, is the size of a pencil. But, I also shoot animals with a stick so it's all about where we hit right? lol.


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## Roboz (May 30, 2018)

Have you thought about the Accubond? Its by far my favorite bullet, nothing has walked away after a solid hit with them and they fly really good for me. I will say i have shot many antelope with the TTSX and they performed very well too. I shot my muzzleloader buck with a Barnes TEZ and i will say it left a massive wound channel, i was pretty impressed. I would go with the Barnes if the lead concerns you...just my .02


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Roboz said:


> Have you thought about the Accubond? Its by far my favorite bullet, nothing has walked away after a solid hit with them and they fly really good for me. I will say i have shot many antelope with the TTSX and they performed very well too. I shot my muzzleloader buck with a Barnes TEZ and i will say it left a massive wound channel, i was pretty impressed. I would go with the Barnes if the lead concerns you...just my .02


That TEZ is lethal!


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Everyone has their preference on Bullets. I've saw animals that were hit with a Barns that were never recovered. (Elk, strait on chest shot at 100yds.) 


I used the .30 190gr. VLD on the Elk I killed. I didn't like the destruction the bullet did to the meat. Both shoulders were almost to the point of not being able to even use for burger. I'm pulling the bullets, and trying another bullet this year. 


I've loaded some .25 110gr. TTX to use on Speed Goats if I ever draw. I'm hoping to find a good goat that gives me a shot no closer than 250yds. to see how they perform. I might be crazy, but that's what I love about Antelope. Loooong shots.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Here is the exit hole on my coues. The bullet was a 100 gr Barnes TTSX .25 at 3200fps 420 yard shot.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Barnes will work every time when going fast, like over 2,000 fps. They are geared more for regular hunting distances (under 500 yards). They are accurate and a quality bullet. Hit bone and they will work better than anything out there. Put them through the lungs and they still work fine, animal might not be dead right there but within 100 yards that critter will be dead. I am not a long range hunter so they fit my bill and I really like them. I have enough lead exposure with reloading and eating lead shot in game birds, so if I can limit my lead exposure in big game bullets why not.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Critter said:


> Here is the exit hole on my coues. The bullet was a 100 gr Barnes TTSX .25 at 3200fps 420 yard shot.


I guess my load should work for a speed goat.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

thanks for all the replies. i've loaded up some 160 tsx to try and have a box of 139 lrx to see if i can get lucky again with a factory box. i may also try some 168 vld's for long range target practice since they have a good BC and and i have enough twist in the barrel to stabilize them.

i'm sure the barnes will work for my purpose but i am a little interested in trying some hammer hunters if i can find a few locally to try. seems like folks like them that have used them.


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