# What western States DWR has done the best?



## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Which western state has done the best for elk, deer, and other big game animals in general. Both at keeping hunters happy and keeping a good healthy population of big game?


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

You can take Idaho, Montana and aWyoming off the list. The wolves are cleaning house on the deer and elk herds! The wolves have started coming into Utah but they claim there are no extablished packs...yet.


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## grizzly (Jun 3, 2012)

Colorado, check out their Buckoe ratios from mid 90's until now.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

My Vote is Arizona..


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

I agree completely with Badger. I would have voted Idaho, but not any more. I am going to go with Colorado.:mrgreen:


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

What are the criteria that you are going to use to judge them?

How they've managed deer? Or how they've managed hunters?

They've all done about the same with deer. Colorado has been more effective at managing hunters, but their deer aren't in any better shape than anybody else's.
Buck to doe ratios don't mean squat to deer populations, only to hunters.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Badger said:


> You can take Idaho, Montana and aWyoming off the list. The wolves are cleaning house on the deer and elk herds! The wolves have started coming into Utah but they claim there are no extablished packs...yet.


Except that elk herds have actually grown in those states since the reintroduction of wolves...:roll:


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

Idaho...it helps when you have over a million acres of wilderness area...


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Arizona and New Mexico.


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## Yahtahay (Jul 3, 2008)

Utah


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Except that elk herds have actually grown in those states since the reintroduction of wolves...:roll:


I'm curious where you heard this...Idaho's numbers are down significantly. Some units as much as 85% fewer animals since wolves appeared.

Utah doesn't do too bad a job at managing the herds, they just do a crappy job of managing the hunters. We have awesome elk herds all over the place that nobody can hunt, and half of our deer units are closed to the general public. I love how Colorado has the different seasons to spread out the pressure. They have areas/seasons that can be had every year and a lot of diverse opportunities ranging all the way up to very high quality LE hunts. Arizona has done wonders with their elk hunting given the small elk population. Nevada and Colorado have better points systems than we do.


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## Oblivion5888 (Sep 12, 2011)

Yahtahay said:


> Utah


:rotfl:


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Badger said:


> You can take Idaho, Montana and aWyoming off the list. The wolves are cleaning house on the deer and elk herds! The wolves have started coming into Utah but they claim there are no extablished packs...yet.


Badger,

I don't quite remember, but wasn't Idaho's, Montana's, and Wyomings's hands tied with the Wolf deal? Wasn't it the Feds that forced the wolves back into the states domain without the states consent?

I would say Idaho as the best, given what they have had to deal with wolves I would say they need to up wolf tags, however with the other hunt able wildlife, access and landowner friendly people it is a great state to hunt (as a non resident). I love the abundance of upland game, waterfowl and big game opportunity!

Just need to get the wolves out and they have to wait 20 years for big game populations to come back... Sigh.-O,-


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Yahtahay said:


> Utah


Seriously? I think they have done a great job at trophy elk management for sure. But hunter satisfaction? No other state charges up the ying yang for it's resident hunters! The costs we pay for our tags and fees are nuts! Almost $300 for a LE resident tag? That's a tad excessive. -O,-


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> Seriously? I think they have done a great job at trophy elk management for sure. But hunter satisfaction? No other state charges up the ying yang for it's resident hunters! The costs we pay for our tags and fees are nuts! Almost $300 for a LE resident tag? That's a tad excessive. -O,-


You are exactly right on hunter satisfaction in this state for sure.. Put I don't think we want to go down that road here.. That could lead to something nasty.. And I am the biggest hater on hunter satisfaction in here in Utah, but I keep playing this game!! Big bulls for sure in this state, but it would take me half the time to draw and I would be charged half the money to hunt big bulls in Arizona..


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I believe that Arizona's draws are just as screw up as Utah's as for how long it takes to draw a tag for deer and elk in premium units. They do however only charge one price for a elk and one price for a deer but some units you need to purchase a stamp which isn't that much. They also only have just a few units which are considered trophy units unless you count the Indian grounds. 

It is always interesting in that people always think that the grass is greener in other states until they start looking at those states and what is going on in them.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> I believe that Arizona's draws are just as screw up as Utah's as for how long it takes to draw a tag for deer and elk in premium units. They do however only charge one price for a elk and one price for a deer but some units you need to purchase a stamp which isn't that much. They also only have just a few units which are considered trophy units unless you count the Indian grounds.
> 
> It is always interesting in that people always think that the grass is greener in other states until they start looking at those states and what is going on in them.


Critter, is this just what you have heard? Or do you know first hand.. There are premium units in az that are hard to draw, just like every state.. But living there for years, and helping my in-laws every year I would say I know that state well.. So don't start with BS ABOUT "GRASS IS GREENER" CRAP! obviously you don't know.. Because I could draw a good area, every other year.. And some every year.. And you obviously don't know what you are taking about when you mention the Indian res. Get your facts straight bro..


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

This is what gets my blood boiling when it comes to this forum site.. You give your opinion on a topic, or you mention something you might know.. And you get cowards sitting behind their screen that think they know better than you do.. And have to try to criticize someone because they simply and honestly believe they know better because they watched a mossback video, or read in a magazine somewhere.. Its crap..


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Actually I do hunt Arizona. I now have 10 bonus points for deer which include 1 point for hunter ed, and my 1 loyalty point for putting in for all these years. I also have 6 total elk bonus points. I'll be back down there this coming November to help a friend on a deer hunt which took him 3 years to draw as a resident for a unit that would be considered a general unit in any other state.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

If I had to choose between either state (Utah or Arizona) to hunt for the rest of my life taking into account quality, opportunity, general season and LE. Utah would win in a landslide.


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

Tall buck, Idaho has been hit hard from the **** wolves! They are destroying the deer and elk herds. Check out their harvest reports for some of their prime areas and the success rate has dropped dramatically.


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Badger said:


> Tall buck, Idaho has been hit hard from the **** wolves! They are destroying the deer and elk herds. Check out their harvest reports for some of their prime areas and the success rate has dropped dramatically.


I know they have been hit VERY VERY HARD! Sucks to see all that work of getting deer and elk and moose numbers up and then see them go the other direction so quickly... Makes me so angry!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

http://rmefblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/why-do-you-hunt-elk.html


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> http://rmefblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/why-do-you-hunt-elk.html


Very Interesting article... Wonder if due to Utah managing for "Quality" the Idaho guys draw a tag in Utah they chase the bigger bulls if not then they hunt in Idaho? Just a random thought.

I wonder what the results would be IF Each state in the west conducted the same survey?

Would the results would be the same or if they would vary from state to state? Thoughts?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Personally I think they would be similar. Probably because my thoughts on the subject are similar.

With regards to hunting bigger bulls versus at home.....chances are yes I would presume, unless it is just a general tag that is drawn or purchased OTC. I know that if I ever draw the tags that I am after in other states it will not be near the meat hunt that I do here.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

From my point of view, Montana is the place to hunt right now. 
Opportunity - Residents can buy multiple deer tags, an elk tag over the counter. And most antlerless elk units go undersubscribed so after the draw, you can buy a cow elk tag as well. As a resident, you can hunt deer and elk every single year. To hunt as a non-resident in Montana, you could buy a deer/elk combo over the internet the past two years without having to draw.
Herds - Deer are everywhere in the state - both mule deer and whitetail.
Access - Roughly 1/3 of the state is public land. But that is a huge freaking state, and most of that public land is great habitat, so while the percentage is different than Utah, there are more acres of huntable public land. 
Seasons - Archer is 6 weeks long, followed by 6 weeks of rifle. No special season for muzzies but you can use them on the rifle hunt if you want.
Diversity of species - As good or better than anywhere else. Mule and whitetail, elk, moose, RM Bighorns, goats, pronghorn, bison, cougar, blackbear, wolf, etc.... 

Habitat is king. And Montana has more of it than any other RM state. To me, it isn't even in the same league as others. One would have to be an Alaskan resident to have it better than it is in Montana.


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## Yahtahay (Jul 3, 2008)

Yahtahay said:


> Utah





Oblivion5888 said:


> :rotfl:


I was serious actually! We are spoiled in this state! Colorado doesn't have the bulls we have, Colorado doesn't have the bucks we have, nor does Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona. Bottom line, Utah has done a great job at managing our big game. Do I personally like the draw system in Utah? NO! Is it rewarding when you finally draw a LE Boulder tag and pull out a 350-400 class bull? YES! Tell me anywhere on this planet that compares to the Henry's for Mulies!? NOWHERE!

Personally, I love Elk on STEROIDS, I don't like rag horns. I like quality, bottom line, I don't hunt for meat, I hunt because my testosterone demands I kill the biggest bull in Utah. I WANT the record bull on my wall, not yours. :mrgreen: You want me to be any more honest?

Trust me I could find tons to bitch about Utah for but you know what, I feel privileged to be a resident here with so much opportunity and whether I like the way the DWR manages things or not, they've done one hell of a job.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Yahtahay said:


> I was serious actually! We are spoiled in this state! Colorado doesn't have the bulls we have, Colorado doesn't have the bucks we have, nor does Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona. Bottom line, Utah has done a great job at managing our big game. Do I personally like the draw system in Utah? NO! Is it rewarding when you finally draw a LE Boulder tag and pull out a 350-400 class bull? YES! Tell me anywhere on this planet that compares to the Henry's for Mulies!? NOWHERE!


Colorado does have a few areas that is comparable to a lot of Utah's LE units for both bucks and bulls but nothing such as the Henry Mountains. There are units in Colorado that it will take a resident 20 years of points to draw a tag and the non resident a few more. Not to mention the units and seasonal hunts that will take 15+ points to draw. I personally know of 3 400pt+ bulls that came out of Colorado last hunting season. These were taken off of public land on unguided hunts and each hunter burned 15+ points for the tags.


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## elkhornmadness (Aug 29, 2013)

Both Wyoming and Arizona have done a very good job. I think they have focused on predator control and that makes a huge difference.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't know about states other than Utah and Montana. But I will say this. From what I do know, Utah has produced some of the very best trophy units around, for both deer and elk. But that has come at a cost. That is another question all together though, inspired by yahtahay's brutal honesty. Would you rather hunt raghorn bulls every single year, or once or twice in your life, hunt a world class trophy? Has Utah achieved both of those?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Yahtahay said:


> I was serious actually! We are spoiled in this state! Colorado doesn't have the bulls we have, Colorado doesn't have the bucks we have, nor does Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona. Bottom line, Utah has done a great job at managing our big game. Do I personally like the draw system in Utah? NO! Is it rewarding when you finally draw a LE Boulder tag and pull out a 350-400 class bull? YES! Tell me anywhere on this planet that compares to the Henry's for Mulies!? NOWHERE!
> 
> Personally, I love Elk on STEROIDS, I don't like rag horns. I like quality, bottom line, I don't hunt for meat, I hunt because my testosterone demands I kill the biggest bull in Utah. I WANT the record bull on my wall, not yours. :mrgreen: You want me to be any more honest?
> 
> Trust me I could find tons to bitch about Utah for but you know what, I feel privileged to be a resident here with so much opportunity and whether I like the way the DWR manages things or not, they've done one hell of a job.


The Uncompaghre National Forest in Colorado is loaded with bucks like Henrys. My father in law lives in Ridgeway and it is just loaded with MASSIVE bucks. The western slope of Colorado has an awesome population of big bucks. Take a trip to the western slope. In particular the the southwest.

Not to knock the Henrys in any way but here is a breakdown by Boone and Crockett:

According to the Boone & Crockett Club's records, the total number of mule deer entered in their system in the last decade looks like this: Colorado, 171; Wyoming, 69; Idaho, 60; Saskatchewan, 55; New Mexico, 49; Utah, 40; Oregon, 35; Old Mexico, 29; Nevada, 25; British Columbia, 23; Arizona, 20; Alberta, 19; Montana, 14; Kansas, 10; Washington, 9; North Dakota, 5; Texas, 5; and California, South Dakota, and Nebraska, 4 each. There are some interesting notes to be made from this general list. First, if your an American you can eliminate Saskatchewan. Americans are not allowed to hunt mule deer there. Second, if you look more closely in the B&C records, you can find out which county has produced the most record bucks during this period. The top five counties are New Mexico's Rio Arriba (45); Sonora, Mexico (21; Lincoln County, Wyoming (23); Eagle County, Colorado (21; and Gunnison County, Colorado (18.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

Yahtahay said:


> I was serious actually! We are spoiled in this state! Colorado doesn't have the bulls we have, Colorado doesn't have the bucks we have, nor does Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona. Bottom line, Utah has done a great job at managing our big game. Do I personally like the draw system in Utah? NO! Is it rewarding when you finally draw a LE Boulder tag and pull out a 350-400 class bull? YES! Tell me anywhere on this planet that compares to the Henry's for Mulies!? NOWHERE!
> 
> Personally, I love Elk on STEROIDS, I don't like rag horns. I like quality, bottom line, I don't hunt for meat, I hunt because my testosterone demands I kill the biggest bull in Utah. I WANT the record bull on my wall, not yours. :mrgreen: You want me to be any more honest?
> 
> Trust me I could find tons to bitch about Utah for but you know what, I feel privileged to be a resident here with so much opportunity and whether I like the way the DWR manages things or not, they've done one hell of a job.


Utah is a great state for hunting, but opportunity doesn't hold a candle to surrounding states. Elk quality is as good in some other states as well. Nevada has great elk hunting that if you wait long enough you'll get to smack a 350+ bull too, so does Arizona. But in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming you can chase 350 bulls every single year for months at a time. Not to mention the deer hunting in Montana, Colorado, and Wyoming is much better overall vs. Utah. Sure Utah has the Henry mountains which is arguably the best deer unit in the world, but overall the deer hunting is better. OTC tags are a thing of the past in Utah. Residents aren't getting general deer tags. That means opportunity sucks. In surrounding states you can go buy non-resident tags the day the season starts and hunt bucks. As a resident in those states you have great opportunities to hunt real general season hunts.

That being said, you can't really compare Utah to states like Wyoming. We've got 4 times the population here so it can't be the same. But when 90% of the state is managed for "trophy" animals, you're killing opportunity. But there are some folks who love that, and that's fine by me. I'm more of an opportunity guy, so take my comments lightly.

I can't pick a favorite overall, this needs to be a criteria based selection depending on your preferred hunting style and expectations.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

svmoose said:


> Utah is a great state for hunting, but opportunity doesn't hold a candle to surrounding states. Elk quality is as good in some other states as well. Nevada has great elk hunting that if you wait long enough you'll get to smack a 350+ bull too, so does Arizona. But in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming you can chase 350 bulls every single year for months at a time. Not to mention the deer hunting in Montana, Colorado, and Wyoming is much better overall vs. Utah. Sure Utah has the Henry mountains which is arguably the best deer unit in the world, but overall the deer hunting is better. OTC tags are a thing of the past in Utah. Residents aren't getting general deer tags. That means opportunity sucks. In surrounding states you can go buy non-resident tags the day the season starts and hunt bucks. As a resident in those states you have great opportunities to hunt real general season hunts.
> 
> That being said, you can't really compare Utah to states like Wyoming. We've got 4 times the population here so it can't be the same. But when 90% of the state is managed for "trophy" animals, you're killing opportunity. But there are some folks who love that, and that's fine by me. I'm more of an opportunity guy, so take my comments lightly.
> 
> I can't pick a favorite overall, this needs to be a criteria based selection depending on your preferred hunting style and expectations.


Amen!!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

El Matador said:


> I'm curious where you heard this...Idaho's numbers are down significantly. Some units as much as 85% fewer animals since wolves appeared.


Actually, I was wrong....elk populations in Idaho have dropped from about 125,000 animals in 1995 when wolves were introduced to about 108,000 animals in 2013. But, 21 of 29 elk zones in Idaho are either at or above their objectives....

....I am no fan of wolves and definitely don't want them in utah. But, there is a lot of doom and gloom out there that simply isn't true. We hear of the infamous decline of wolves in areas like Lolo, but we don't hear anything about the other areas or the fact that fish and game departments had been trying to reduce elk numbers in some of these units for years.

Back to the topic at hand, though, I have only hunted in utah and wyoming and I would take Utah over wyoming hands down....!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

wyoming2utah said:


> Actually, I was wrong....elk populations in Idaho have dropped from about 125,000 animals in 1995 when wolves were introduced to about 108,000 animals in 2013. But, 21 of 29 elk zones in Idaho are either at or above their objectives....
> 
> ....I am no fan of wolves and definitely don't want them in utah. But, there is a lot of doom and gloom out there that simply isn't true. We hear of the infamous decline of wolves in areas like Lolo, but we don't hear anything about the other areas or the fact that fish and game departments had been trying to reduce elk numbers in some of these units for years.
> 
> Back to the topic at hand, though, I have only hunted in utah and wyoming and I would take Utah over wyoming hands down....!


Not me. Not even close for hunting IMO.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Yahtahay said:


> I was serious actually! We are spoiled in this state! Colorado doesn't have the bulls we have, Colorado doesn't have the bucks we have, nor does Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona. Bottom line, Utah has done a great job at managing our big game. Do I personally like the draw system in Utah? NO! Is it rewarding when you finally draw a LE Boulder tag and pull out a 350-400 class bull? YES! Tell me anywhere on this planet that compares to the Henry's for Mulies!? NOWHERE!
> 
> Personally, I love Elk on STEROIDS, I don't like rag horns. I like quality, bottom line, I don't hunt for meat, I hunt because my testosterone demands I kill the biggest bull in Utah. I WANT the record bull on my wall, not yours. :mrgreen: You want me to be any more honest?
> 
> Trust me I could find tons to bitch about Utah for but you know what, I feel privileged to be a resident here with so much opportunity and whether I like the way the DWR manages things or not, they've done one hell of a job.


"Colorado doesn't have the bucks we have" :rotfl:

When you're talking about so much oppertunity, are you talking about the 20+ year wait, if ever for Henrys or Boulder tag? What good is a place with the biggest bucks and bulls if you can never hunt there?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Wow. Really? DWR management?

I'll admit a bias - I've worked with a lot of DWR folks over the years. Every one of them earned my respect and gratitude. I consider many to be my friends, and it's an honor for me to say that. So there you go.

That said, it seems to me that a state full of Republicans and Tea-Party boys oughta be singing nothing but praises to the UDWR. This is exactly how government should work - in full partnership with The People, eh?

Truth be told, the DWR can do nothing more than make recommendations. The rest is up to us. (Or whoever shows up when we aren't there.) I think we're letting the DWR down.

Kind of a "Step Up or Shut Up" kinda deal, huh?


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