# Changes Proposed for 2017 Waterfowl Season



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Article produced by the DWR: https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1950-should-utah-have-two-duck-hunting-zones.html

RAC Packet: https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2016-12_rac_packet.pdf

The DWR is considering splitting the state into northern and southern duck zones, with the southern zone opening a week later. I don't have a really strong opinion on this one, but I do think it will probably result in bigger crowds on the GSL WMA's for opening day. I know if I lived in the southern zone, I'd be willing to travel to a northern WMA for the earlier opening day.

Here are the proposed season dates for 2017-2018:

Northern Zone: 10/7/2017 - 1/20/2018
Northern Scaup: 10/7/2017 - 12/31/2018

Southern Zone: 10/14/2017 - 1/27/2018
Southern Scaup: 11/3/2017 - 1/27/2018

I got a little bothered when I saw this one. I wish Scaup would open later and run to the end of the season in the northern zone, like they would in the southern zone. I pass on dozens of Scaup every year in January. I dunno... the DWR must think the Scaup wintering up north need some protection.

There is also a proposed rest area at Ogden Bay. That should be good.

Finally, I was disappointed to see a recommended bag limit of 1 pintail per day for the 2017 season.

What does everyone think?


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

Well like the southern zone sent live down here it will help us out in the southern part of the state also you should go to the rac up north ask for the change in the scaup season


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

IM good with the southern part starting one week later and running one week longer. But for the pintails i hope that not the case. I hate it when it only one.To many people will shoot more then one and leave them. it make it harder to hunt as well. I also wish they would start the bluebills started in Nov as well. MY BIGGEST ONE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE CHANGE IS THE DANG SHOOTING TIMES.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

on page two there a mistake 
Northern Scaup
: 10/7/2017 - 12/31/2018

that should be saying 2017 not 18.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

not liking this ether

Light Goose
Statewide: 10/25/2017 - 11/30/2017; 1/1/2018 - 3/10/2018 
 (20 bag
 / 60 possession)
•
Close
d i
n Millard County from February 5 - 
February 2

I also wish the swan dates would start at the end of Oct.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Seems like positive changes overall to me. The 1 bird pintail limit is set by the feds as far as I know, we may not have a choice with that one. It's not like they're hard to ID, if you know what to look for they don't look like any other duck. I also really wish they would push the scaup season to the end of the hunt like Idaho does, I don't understand the reasoning behind having ours earlier. Dustin, I'm not 100% sure but I believe shooting hours are set by the feds as well.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

One pinnie a day will be tough.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Pumpgunner said:


> Seems like positive changes overall to me. The 1 bird pintail limit is set by the feds as far as I know, we may not have a choice with that one. It's not like they're hard to ID, if you know what to look for they don't look like any other duck. I also really wish they would push the scaup season to the end of the hunt like Idaho does, I don't understand the reasoning behind having ours earlier. Dustin, I'm not 100% sure but I believe shooting hours are set by the feds as well.


it is set by them. We need to find out who we need to talk to about changing that.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> One pinnie a day will be tough.


yes it will.


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## amrich17 (Jan 19, 2015)

What the problem with shooting times?

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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

amrich17 said:


> What the problem with shooting times?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


It makes no sense to have it 30 minutes before sunrise when you can't ID a duck in that light. And it should be half hour after sunset because you can still ID ducks in that light. off the soap box.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

amrich17 said:


> What the problem with shooting times?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


I'm wondering the same thing...


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

fish-n-fool said:


> It makes no sense to have it 30 minutes before sunrise when you can't ID a duck in that light. And it should be half hour after sunset because you can still ID ducks in that light. off the soap box.


The issue with 30 minutes after sunset is recovering crippled birds.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I would like to see the season start 1-2 weeks later, and finish 1-2 weeks later. Many years, it seems like alot of the ducks are all brown still. Hard to tell to many apart, atleast for me. That way they would have a little more color. 

Shooting times are good I think, for the most part. Just a harsher penalty for the late shooters that get caught. I always hear and see guys busting away 10-20 minutes or later after hours.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

amrich17 said:


> What the problem with shooting times?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


we can shoot 30 mins before hand when it still dark to see. but we can shoot pass 5 when it still light out side. last saturday we had to stop at 506 well it was still light at 520 and we had swans coming in to the decoys and ducks. we still could have had another 20 mins of shooting.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> The issue with 30 minutes after sunset is recovering crippled birds.[/QUO
> 
> what the difference from the morning at evening ? nothing you cant see your cripples in the morning ether and you lose them. So i dont by that one.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

The difference is if you shoot early in the morning it's going to get lighter soon. In the evening, it's just going to get darker. That's the rationale according to my sources.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I'd like to see an early goose season and the swan zone opened up farther north. There are probably 500 swan sitting on a big pond up here in Rich County, but it's outside the zone.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

In truthfulness, unless you guys are seeing something I'm not, I don't think we have enough birds to justify that long of a season. Short of swans, there is very little moving in the last month. Realizing I don't have an airboat to hunt the lake, but I do get pretty far off the beaten trail, and in several areas, and it seems to be the same everywhere. With all the lack of water we have had, and another late start to winter this year, we don't seem to be holding the birds, I see the counts same as you, but I'm not sure I have much faith in them the last couple of years. Yes, I have been wrong before, most likely will again today(in fact with it being turkey day I guarantee it). What do you think?
The 2 zones seem actually pretty fair to me.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I think the split zones are good for everyone. There is opportunity to hunt longer if a person chooses to travel a bit. I don't like the 1 pintail restriction, I didn't like it before when it was implemented. I don't like the scaup season closing when it does, and I agree it should open later and run later in the season when more of them are here. I am not sure how the Canvasback limit can remain at 2 when just a few years ago it was closed completely. I'm still confused about that.:-? It just seems there are more pintails than cans in the GSL area. I know they are counting the entire flyway populations and taking that into account, but 1 pintail seems ridiculous.


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## BigMac (Feb 12, 2012)

CPAjeff said:


> I'd like to see an early goose season and the swan zone opened up farther north. There are probably 500 swan sitting on a big pond up here in Rich County, but it's outside the zone.


I too would like to be able to hunt swan state wide. I have not put in since they set area restrictions. Would be nice to hunt them where I do my normal hunting.
I was told the reasoning was so they could monitor the harvest of trumpitors?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

BigMac said:


> I too would like to be able to hunt swan state wide. I have not put in since they set area restrictions. Would be nice to hunt them where I do my normal hunting.
> I was told the reasoning was so they could monitor the harvest of trumpitors?


There used to be an article on the DWR website explaining why the swan boundary is where it is. I can't find it anymore, though. The article explained that Wyoming and Idaho hold a fair number of the Rocky Mountain Region's trumpeters, and the extreme northern part of Utah was closed to swan hunting because it's the first place a wandering Trumpeter would end up. Also, Public Shooting Grounds and Salt Creek were removed from the swan hunt area because that's where most of the Trumpeter swans were being harvested.


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

One pin will be rough.. The split season sounds good to me. Heck, I'd like to see the extended urban goose season run even latter. Maybe open an early goose season in august or early September, then not open it again until November??

But honestly, out of all the other changes, none of them worry me more than the lack of water AND coincidently the lack of birds along with it. Something needs to happen as the lake dropping two feet every year for several years now and none of these changes are gonna mean much if this trend continues.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

This is just a dream of mine. Close Pintails all year. Then open them up for the last 3 weeks of the season and let you shoot 7. The thought gives me the cold chills.


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## quackaddict35 (Sep 25, 2015)

Fowlmouth said:


> I think the split zones are good for everyone. There is opportunity to hunt longer if a person chooses to travel a bit. I don't like the 1 pintail restriction, I didn't like it before when it was implemented. I don't like the scaup season closing when it does, and I agree it should open later and run later in the season when more of them are here. I am not sure how the Canvasback limit can remain at 2 when just a few years ago it was closed completely. I'm still confused about that.:-? It just seems there are more pintails than cans in the GSL area. I know they are counting the entire flyway populations and taking that into account, but 1 pintail seems ridiculous.


I agree about the pintails. I think it's been stated before but I can see a lot of pintails being left out to waste because people are accidentally shooting more than one, which is highly likely here because we see so many

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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

*Directed at nobody in particular*

Just so you know, the states must follow Federal Guidelines when it comes to setting migratory bird seasons, bag limits, and restrictions. An individual state can tighten those guidelines but are never allowed to loosen them. So for the most part, our Utah DWR is following the Federal Guidelines when it comes to species restrictions and season date limits. I will not say there are no personal agendas being considered by DWR (because I have no data to support that contention), but for the most part, I believe that our DWR employees are doing the best they can for Utah hunters within the guidelines they are given to work with.

Broadening your research to include the whole continent regarding Federal waterfowl guidelines will give you a better understanding about why we have restrictions that don't make any sense to us on a purely state level. There is a much bigger picture here that most local hunters don't have any knowledge of or have not been exposed too. I have been exposed to hunting waterfowl in all 4 flyways in the USA. I have come to understand from that experience that there are always sound reasons for changes that occur in individual states. Nobody is ever going to have it all their way; that just isn't possible. Continental weather and habitat play a very big part in our local guidelines. I have learned to accept what I am given to work with every year and do my very best to enjoy it to the best of my ability. I have also determined that it is an exercise in futility to get upset over things that I have no control over. State waterfowl regulations are one of those things I have no control over.

Bottom line for me is that I can find no real fault with any of the new proposals. 8)


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## Coop (Jun 2, 2016)

The one that gets me is the northern goose zone and the dates on the split. -O,-


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Coop said:


> The one that gets me is the northern goose zone and the dates on the split. -O,-


Thats where bobs last statement goes off the rails. I was at the RAC when the original split was brought forth. All the hunters there were pretty much on board with the split being during the deerhunt, when a majority of hunters were deer hunting. The 2 big money clubs were very vocal about not wanting it because that would mean the loss of open water for their paying customers, in exchange for freeze up when the big money doesn't want to hunt. Soooo, imagine my suprise that next we end up with a northern goose zone. Seems the money talked, and got their way, regardless of federal or international guidelines, that one, much like a few others was 100% against the wishes of the many to benefit the deep pockets.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

hossblur said:


> Thats where bobs last statement goes off the rails.


HB, you're not making any sense; my LAST statement was "BOTTOM LINE FOR ME is that I CAN FIND NO REAL FAULT with any of the new proposals." I'm at a total loss to understand how stating a personal opinion puts me 'off the rails.'


hossblur said:


> I was at the RAC when the original split was brought forth. All the hunters there were pretty much on board with the split being during the deerhunt, when a majority of hunters were deer hunting. The 2 big money clubs were very vocal about not wanting it because that would mean the loss of open water for their paying customers, in exchange for freeze up when the big money doesn't want to hunt. Soooo, imagine my suprise that next we end up with a northern goose zone. Seems the money talked, and got their way, regardless of federal or international guidelines, that one, much like a few others was 100% against the wishes of the many to benefit the deep pockets.


I also said "I WILL NOT SAY THERE ARE NO PERSONAL AGENDAS BEING CONSIDERED BY DWR (because I HAVE NO DATA TO SUPPORT THAT CONTENTION), BUT FOR THE MOST PART, I believe that our DWR employees are doing the best they can for Utah hunters within the guidelines they are given to work with."

I'm not originally from Utah, and I have a major dislike for the Regional Advisory Councils (RACs) system used in Utah. It's bovine excrement of the highest odor - but that's another subject and I won't say anything further about it here other than to say I BELIEVE it contributes to problems like the one that has you miffed. I think that the Federal guidelines DO NOT mandate a split season for any states. They do set the beginning and ending dates within which a state can set its season. The states are also given the maximum number of days they can allow hunting. Utah can decrease the number of days or insert splits as it suits the state's needs as determined by the RACs and the Wildlife Board.

The RACs consist of 12 to 15 members. The members include individuals who represent the following groups: agriculture, sportsmen, non-consumptive wildlife, locally elected public officials, federal land agencies, and public at large (including business). Some of them are NOT dedicated waterfowlers (surprise, surprise). THE RACS MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE WILDLIFE BOARD who shall establish the policies best designed to accomplish the purposes and fulfill the intent of all laws pertaining to wildlife and the preservation, protection, conservation, perpetuation, introduction, and management of wildlife. In establishing policy the Wildlife Board shall: recognize that wildlife and its habitat are an essential part of a healthy, productive environment; recognize the impact of wildlife on man, his economic activities, private property rights, and local economies; seek to balance the habitat requirements of wildlife with the social and economic activities of man; recognize the social and economic values of wildlife, including fishing, hunting, and other uses; seek to maintain wildlife on a sustainable basis; and CONSIDER THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCILS. If a regional advisory council recommends a position or action to the Wildlife Board, and the Wildlife Board rejects the recommendation, the Wildlife Board shall provide a written explanation to the regional advisory council.

So dating back to when the original split was considered that you spoke of HB, it is a matter of public record (meeting minutes available to the general public) what the recommendation was to the Wildlife Board and their response to that recommendation (accepted or rejected). The Wildlife Board has all the power when it comes to setting policy. Can they be influenced by (are they being influenced by) people with deep pockets? You tell me. Politics makes some very strange bed fellows and the Wildlife Board is very much a political entity.


> There is a Wildlife Board nominating Committee which consists of 11 Members. This committee is appointed by the Governor from nominees by the: Agriculture industry, Sportsmen's groups, Non-consumptive wildlife interests, Federal land management agencies, Utah Association of Counties, Utah Chapters of the Society of Range Management, and The Wildlife Society. The nominating committee solicits nominees statewide and then submits them to the Governor, who makes the final decision regarding appointments to the Wildlife Board.


:O--O:


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> I'd like to see an early goose season and the swan zone opened up farther north. There are probably 500 swan sitting on a big pond up here in Rich County, but it's outside the zone.


i tryed to get them to open up further north and it wont happen


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

dubob said:


> HB, you're not making any sense; my LAST statement was "BOTTOM LINE FOR ME is that I CAN FIND NO REAL FAULT with any of the new proposals." I'm at a total loss to understand how stating a personal opinion puts me 'off the rails.'
> 
> I also said "I WILL NOT SAY THERE ARE NO PERSONAL AGENDAS BEING CONSIDERED BY DWR (because I HAVE NO DATA TO SUPPORT THAT CONTENTION), BUT FOR THE MOST PART, I believe that our DWR employees are doing the best they can for Utah hunters within the guidelines they are given to work with."
> 
> ...


Yeah bob, I know how it works. I know how its "supposed" to work, and the fact that those 2 clubs got themselves their own goose zone, pretty much shows it didn't work. I would bet the vast majority of the "members" up their are even resisdents. I used to know a few of the guides, and it didn't seem they ever guided anyone from utah. My off the rails comment was in response to your dwr doing the best they can. In this case, they were politicized, and backroomed. Note: I do almost always seperate the DWR dudes in the field, and the glorified politicians in Salt Lake, it seems like they are always to completely seperate entities. Your right, their are minutes from those meetings, you should read them, its a classic read.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

utahbigbull said:


> One pin will be rough.. The split season sounds good to me. Heck, I'd like to see the extended urban goose season run even latter. Maybe open an early goose season in august or early September, then not open it again until November??
> 
> But honestly, out of all the other changes, none of them worry me more than the lack of water AND coincidently the lack of birds along with it. Something needs to happen as the lake dropping two feet every year for several years now and none of these changes are gonna mean much if this trend continues.


Its been a fantasy of mine to think a set of locks/gates were to be installed on the causeway someday...


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## Coop (Jun 2, 2016)

So we are buying off on this? if it stinks that bad maybe it needs some fresh air pumped into it.
:mrgreen:


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

hossblur said:


> Yeah bob, I know how it works. I know how its "supposed" to work, and the fact that those 2 clubs got themselves their own goose zone, pretty much shows it didn't work. I would bet the vast majority of the "members" up their are even resisdents. I used to know a few of the guides, and it didn't seem they ever guided anyone from utah. My off the rails comment was in response to your dwr doing the best they can. In this case, they were politicized, and backroomed. Note: I do almost always seperate the DWR dudes in the field, and the glorified politicians in Salt Lake, it seems like they are always to completely seperate entities. Your right, their are minutes from those meetings, you should read them, its a classic read.


I RESPECTFULLY disagree. The Wildlife Board actually makes the policy that the DWR is bound to implement. I don't see the Wildlife Board as part of the DWR. It is a purely political board that dictates policy to the DWR. That's a big difference IMHO. So yeah, I'm STILL sticking to my opinion that the ACTUAL DWR is doing the best they can for us. You have every right to think and say otherwise and I wouldn't have it any other way; however, I don't have to agree with your opinion. And I don't.

I'm good with that and hope you are as well. I'm also done with this topic. Best wishes to you for successful duck hunts in the future.
:O--O:


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