# Cougar with Forehead Teeth!



## bezog (Apr 29, 2015)

This is kinda crazy!

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/cougar-bizarre-horn-teeth-head-found-idaho


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Scary is the word I would use.:shock:


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## Badin (Dec 18, 2015)

That is sick. I wonder if its mother was eating rabbits off the nuke site while she was with kittens.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Very cool! Given the way the face is formed very early as a fetus(It sort of unfolds on it's self along two separate axis), driven by SHH gene, and regulated by thyroid function, there are a couple of things that come to mind.......I'll spare everyone though :mrgreen:

I'm going to have to look into the proper nomenclature for just what kind of bite you would call that............:wacko:


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Oh come on LT don't leave us hanging:neutral:


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

OK, OK, I'm pretty sure this is caused by the low buck to doe ratios in the area. Or possibly too many hunters(one in the same really), my other guess is weather, or the lack of a coyote bounty.......

But on a less serious note, the taxidermist is going to have a hell of a time with that.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

One of the lunatic fringe crazies in the comment section over there thinks it is Homeobox gene: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v398/n6728/full/398622a0.html

Wait.....didn't I already kinda suggest that? How did this shiny stuff get on my head?


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Lonetree said:


> OK, OK, I'm pretty sure this is caused by the low buck to doe ratios in the area. Or possibly too many hunters(one in the same really), my other guess is weather, or the lack of a coyote bounty.......
> 
> But on a less serious note, the taxidermist is going to have a hell of a time with that.


My God there is a sense of humor there. I like it:mrgreen:


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

This is a clear indicator cougar are overpopulated.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Iron Bear said:


> This is a clear indicator cougar are overpopulated.


Yeah, that too........

Dunkem, I'm so dry most times I can't tell when I'm joking or being serious, which is always.......or maybe that was Cleese.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Oh wait Iron Bear, probably not over population. Probably more like the population is too low, and they are suffering from genetic bottle necking..........I'm thinking one of these might be easier to prove than the other.


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## Uber (May 18, 2014)

Pesticides.

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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Well one thing we know was she didn't have no nuts.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Well one thing we know was she didn't have no nuts.


Given the only picture we've been shown, I don't know that I'd make that claim with too much confidence. We have not seen the other other side of the head........


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Uber said:


> Pesticides.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


Sorry, I forgot to send you the memo.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

My cousins husband harvest the animal. I got pics shortly after the harvest. The Tom was 117.5 lbs. had an empty stomach. Weird deal to say the least.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Lonetree said:


> Given the only picture we've been shown, I don't know that I'd make that claim with too much confidence. We have not seen the other other side of the head........


I'll post up a bunch of photos here in a bit.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Perhaps the result of too much inbreeding, a common Franklin County trait......


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

King. Is it a Tom or female? The article I read on ksl said that it was a female.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Would not be pesticides, would have to be the 2-4D in the weed killer, in the grass, the bunnies were eating.....
2-4D was the main chemical in agent orange. :shock:


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

2full said:


> Would not be pesticides, would have to be the 2-4D in the weed killer, in the grass, the bunnies were eating.....
> 2-4D was the main chemical in agent orange. :shock:


2,4-D is a herbicide, and herbicides are pesticides. Pesticide is an umbrella term for herbicide, insecticide, rodenticide, biocide, etc.

So yeah, 2,4-D, and about 40 other pesticides could cause this. And we are currently in a huge ramp up/plateau in pesticide use.

Here is how it would work:

2,4-D(and many others) is a known endocrine disruptor, specifically of the thyroid.

The thyroid of the mother regulates a gene called Sonic Hedge Hog(yes that's real) in fetal development.

SHH gene is responsible for symmetry(left/right and fore/aft), facial development, the formation of teeth, and sexual dymorphism.

In deer born in areas treated with pesticides we see several malformations, asymmetrical antlers, testicular abnormalities, and under/over bites. These malformations all have roots in thyroid and endocrine disruption.

This case is very extreme, and most certainly rooted in a SHH(epigenticlly driven, not hereditary) mutation/translocation. This happens the same way as two headed fish and calves. SHH gene is a signaling gene, regulated by thyroid hormones. If you mess with the thyroid, you mess with SHH. Disruptions in the thyroid will cause SHH mutations and cause things like under bites that we see in deer. These are definitive signs of fetal hypothyroidsim. In the case of this lion it is probably a translocation of SHH signaling, caused by disrupted thyroid signalling. This is also the underlying mechanism behind polydactylism(extra fingers or toes). You can see this kind of thing play out in antler development, as it is the same underlying genetic expression.

You can read more here: www.westernwildlifeecology.org


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Sorry lonetree, my post was tonge in cheek. 
I know there is many chemicals that are at fault. 
In my business we sell many pesticides, herbicides, rodenticides, etc. 
So I know a bit about them. We do not umbrella them all together. 
Each one has its own "job" and makeup. Along with side effects and risks. 
Most people don't realize how important it is to use them correctly and safely. 

The biggest problem I hear and see is:
If 2 Oz per gallon is right, then 5 or 6 Oz per gallon is better. 

Boils down to, to every action there is a reaction.


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## btsmith (Sep 12, 2010)

King is right. It was a male. I too know the hunter and he sent me pics after he killed it. The article is wrong.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

2full said:


> Sorry lonetree, my post was tonge in cheek.
> I know there is many chemicals that are at fault.
> In my business we sell many pesticides, herbicides, rodenticides, etc.
> So I know a bit about them. We do not umbrella them all together.
> ...


Scientific nomanclature lumps them all under one umbrella term, pesticide, which is generic. But yeah, I hear you on the rest.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I don't even think the taxidermist could make that look good on your wall. 

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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A taxidermist can work wonders. That extra jaw bone would be connected to the skull I believe and would make for a interesting skull.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

I would have that skull euro mounted next to the rug.

BTW, does this score _non-typical_?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Euro mount and toss the rug ha ha

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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

More pictures, I want more pictures! I am just not going to buy a single picture as proof. With photo shop and a little practice you could have put two or three jaws on that lion's head.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

BPturkeys said:


> More pictures, I want more pictures! I am just not going to buy a single picture as proof. With photo shop and a little practice you could have put two or three jaws on that lion's head.


I want more pictures, and to see it in person, but the IDF&G has confirmed the authenticity of it.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Looks like it was eating another cougar and that cougar was trying to eat its way out:shock:


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Maybe if you wrote mountain lion, some peoples mental picture would match what you are trying to say:mrgreen:


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Vote #1 to keep the light hearted, joke cracking Lonetree around.-------SS


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Maybe if you wrote mountain lion, some peoples mental picture would match what you are trying to say:mrgreen:


Wait.....I don't get i.....ohhhh myyyy:shock:

Now I have to watch how I say coug....uhh Mountain lion....

I remember a few years back I embarrassed my daughters by telling them that they couldn't wear thongs to school or church:shock:

I'm old enough where we used to have a gay time when we went shooting or hunting:shock: Not anymore


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I like my first mental picture:shock:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

bowgy said:


> Wait.....I don't get i.....ohhhh myyyy:shock:
> 
> Now I have to watch how I say coug....uhh Mountain lion....
> 
> ...


Hey man, it's 2016 I don't judge


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

The way words change meaning over time reminds me of the Jeffersons Episode with Uncle ward:


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Here is a link to a better photo of the "mountain lion"

http://www.earthtouchnews.com/wtf/wtf/did-this-mountain-lion-really-have-a-parasitic-twin-photos


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

The other day I was out with some friends and we saw some cougars in thongs, but we were having such a gay time with each other we didn't even pay them any attention.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

king eider said:


> I'll post up a bunch of photos here in a bit.


Pics or it won't happen.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Clarq said:


> Pics or it won't happen.


I conversed with my cousins husband who harvested this animal. He is blown away by the media frenzy over it. He is not the type of guy who wants to be in any spotlight at all. He has chosen to lay low and let this blow over. He is not sure how all the news stories got the sex of the animal wrong. It is a Tom. Here are some pics he sent me. I will not post any pics of him holding the animal. I believe their is a pic of those involved in the hunting of this lion that is floating around the net. Its just amazing how fast this goes and who picks up the story.

anyhow here are a few extra pics.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I hope you guys post a photo of the euro mount when finished

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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> The other day I was out with some friends and we saw some cougars in thongs, but we were having such a gay time with each other we didn't even pay them any attention.


Pics or it didn't happen;-)


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