# 2021-2022 season end



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Just finished the worst duck season of my life today! At least we ended on a good note. We pushed the boat a little harder than we probably should have, breaking up to 3” ice in some spots. After a lot of work, we finally made it to an open pocked of water that the birds had kept open over night against the reed line. Had that entire side of the pond to ourselves. Spoons saved the day with quick limits. Glad it’s over, now we can hopefully look forward to more water in more areas and a potentially much better season next year. I hope everyone else that made it out this morning had a great last day out as well


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

Nicely done. I didn’t even get out today, or in the last week or two. Mutiple scouting trips just didn’t produce any hunts I was excited about with the amounts of guys still out hunting. I used to feel like late season there was smaller crowds, but this year was the opposite for me. Early on I had some hunts where it felt like I had the marsh to myself, but late season was just jammed packed with people everywhere I looked.

I have very mixed emotions about this season. I really don’t have room to complain. I shot almost as many birds as I did last year, and I hunted about a 1/3 less the number of days. My “birds-per-hunt” number for the year was actually up about 1.5. It was boom or bust for me this year. I feel like I either shot a limit, or got skunked. That’s not exactly true, but kind of how it felt.

I too am ready to recover, and see what next year will bring. Hopefully some more water the rest of this winter and into the spring to catch up for some of what was lost last year. I also hope we eventually get back to more historically normal weather patterns. Running boats in late December and January in the interior WMA marshes like it has been the last two years just feels weird. I’d prefer more ice earlier on that what we’ve gotten lately. I own and hunt out of boats, so that’s not an anti-boat comment. More just a comment on how much things have changed, and I hope it’s a short term thing. I look forward to those late season ice hunts, and they’ve been few and far between lately.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Wow nice shoot moose. What a way to end the year. Fingers crossed for next year


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

My feelings on the season are mixed. I will say that I hardly hunted the fist 6 weeks of the season. Too many people, too many boats, ducks scared out of their wits because everywhere they try to land, they get shot at....so they don't decoy. Decoying birds is why I duck hunt. I'll pass shoot them, of course, but that's not how I enjoy hunting them. 

I shot fewer than half the birds I did last year. Last year I shot 38 GWT, this year 7. 18 mallards last year, this year 2. I didn't even have a mallard in my decoys during the late season! My birds per hunt average droppped over a bird per hunt (4.94 vs 3.83). I hunted 5 fewer days, and as Gander said, really miss our historic weather. It was great when it froze up a couple weeks ago, but then the January thaw messed things up. I shot over half my birds last year after ice up. No wonder this years was not as good.

There were a couple good take aways though. I hunted a couple new areas and have filed those away for future seasons. Also, out of the 46 birds killed, only 5 were hens which I believe is my lowest percentage ever for hens. 

I'm not ready for it to end, so if anyone wants to go down south to Bicknell, PM me. I'd seriously consider that. Now we get to wait another 9 months and do it all over again. Here's to hoping we get lots of moisture the rest of this winter and spring and that we get back to more "normal" and historic weather patterns, so the late hunt is all that it can be.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

The forecast for the next two weeks, high pressure and highs near 40. I saw a high flight of swan Friday headed north, not a single goose. The geese had moved out, they were headed north last Saturday. There are still the local city dweller geese. I am 20 geese below my last 10 year ave. The warm November and first half December, and the lack of local geese In Utah and Idaho did not help.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I didn't even pick up a bird stamp and from the sound of things, I'm not disappointed I didn't. I agree 100% the need for water over the next 4 months!! Not only for the "swamp rats" but also for the fisherman. 

Nice shoot MM and congrats!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I went to Farmington on Friday with my boat. I got there, saw what a $hit show it was, turned right around and headed home. 
Something else that has to be addressed is the DWR / State Lands need to stop fighting phragmites outside of the impoundments. There is no reason to spray, cut or burn phrag on the GSL bed. The hunting was 100% better when the phrag was 12’ tall. It gave the birds a safe haven and places to escape pressure. It helps everyone out, no matter where you are hunting. I can think of many better areas to throw money at every year. Phrag removal on the GSL bed is a waste of time and money, and a battle that will never be won. And if by chance the lake ever recovers it will take care of the phrag on its own.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Fowlmouth said:


> I went to Farmington on Friday with my boat. I got there, saw what a $hit show it was, turned right around and headed home.
> Something else that has to be addressed is the DWR / State Lands need to stop fighting phragmites outside of the impoundments. There is no reason to spray, cut or burn phrag on the GSL bed. The hunting was 100% better when the phrag was 12’ tall. It gave the birds a safe haven and places to escape pressure. It helps everyone out, no matter where you are hunting. I can think of many better areas to throw money at every year. Phrag removal on the GSL bed is a waste of time and money, and a battle that will never be won. And if by chance the lake ever recovers it will take care of the phrag on its own.


You should have put your boat in the water and went for a cruise. Everyone was all piled up at the end of the dike and no one was going across the middle because of the ice. 15 boats out yesterday and we had the whole south side to ourselves.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> I went to Farmington on Friday with my boat. I got there, saw what a $hit show it was, turned right around and headed home.
> Something else that has to be addressed is the DWR / State Lands need to stop fighting phragmites outside of the impoundments. There is no reason to spray, cut or burn phrag on the GSL bed. The hunting was 100% better when the phrag was 12’ tall. It gave the birds a safe haven and places to escape pressure. It helps everyone out, no matter where you are hunting. I can think of many better areas to throw money at every year. Phrag removal on the GSL bed is a waste of time and money, and a battle that will never be won. And if by chance the lake ever recovers it will take care of the phrag on its own.


And yet phrag along the GSL is estimated to take up/utilize over 71000 acre feet of water annually. That additional water sure could add additional habitat for waterfowl. D*mned if you do, d*amned if you don't.









Phragmites water consumption


Phragmites water consumption in Utah :estimate of how much water is lost from the Great Salt Lake (GSL) basin as a result of Phragmites invasion



etgreatsaltlake.weebly.com


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> There is no reason to spray, cut or burn phrag on the GSL bed.


This is not the best take I've read on here lately. Might not be the worst either, but it's definitely not the best. Phrag left unchecked will destroy the GSL. Then what?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The phrag will keep the dust problem in check too. 😃. (Sarcasm) Would the phrag really take over the entire lake bed? I see it growing close to fresh water sources, I don’t see much phrag further west where it’s just a dry salty lake bed. I’m probably looking at it one sided, knowing it was better hunting when the phrag stands were left untouched.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> This is not the best take I've read on here lately. Might not be the worst either, but it's definitely not the best. Phrag left unchecked will destroy the GSL. Then what?


Gsl is already destroyed. It’ll never be what it was. Not even close. The law makers don’t seem too concerned about it either. Until they care, it’ll never gain any ground as far as recovery goes


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I actually like that they are trying to control the phrag. That place was a jungle 10 years ago with stuff well over your heads and matted down everywhere. If the complaint is that birds need resting areas, it's as simple as declaring certain areas off limits. The birds seem to figure out real quick where it's safe - phrag or no phrag present.

The comment about phrag taking up lots of water is valid too. Problem is, I would imagine any water savings are being siphoned off for new subdivisions and not directed back to the lake. There are only 2 solutions that will get the GSL back to normal: 1) increased annual precipitation and 2) allowance of more of that precipitation to get to the lake. We have no control over #1, but we could over #2. It just comes down to will power. How much are we willing to ration water? What about those nice green lawns everywhere? Are we willing to put a curb or controls on golf courses? What about all these new car washes going in every where? What about ag and that farmer that wants to grow water guzzling alfalfa? How many new arrivals can this State support and when do we restrict it. There will always be winners and losers, and there is only so much water.

If you want a history lesson is how the GSL situation could very well go, look at the history of the Aral Sea in Asia. That scenario is flat out scary, and if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MWScott72 said:


> If you want a history lesson is how the GSL situation could very well go, look at the history of the Aral Sea in Asia. That scenario is flat out scary, and if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.


It’s hard to learn from history when they just keep erasing it


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

MWScott72 said:


> I actually like that they are trying to control the phrag. That place was a jungle 10 years ago with stuff well over your heads and matted down everywhere. If the complaint is that birds need resting areas, it's as simple as declaring certain areas off limits. The birds seem to figure out real quick where it's safe - phrag or no phrag present.


And 10 years ago, the hunting was much better. So that's my point! It keeps birds safe and people out. The phrag areas were natural resting areas. You wouldn't have to declare other areas off limits and restrict more public land from being hunted. The phrag did that for us, unless of course you were a hardcore hunter and bushwhacked trails. If the GSL was full this wouldn't be a discussion. The way things are now with the phrag, it's like it's own marsh system within a marsh system. 
I would like to hear airboaters opinions, especially the guys that launch out of Farmington. Do you think the hunting was better with phrag stands or worse? I know it's easier for you guys to get around out there without phrag, but I see how far out you have to go now to find birds.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Okay I'll bite. Graze the $h!t out of it. 

This year I just wasn't pi$$ed off at ducks like I have in the past. Or something always came up and interfered with me going. But this past season there were definitely less duck numbers. Even in Canada we saw very few ducks. 

Every boat ride I went on this past season I saw ducks using the area in question. They just weren't the flavor I like. It would have been a layout hunt for sure. But there was definitely hunts. One day I saw guys hunting a panel blind not far from the dike. I drank coffee and watched a few minutes. They were banging away and Spoonies and Widgeon were dropping.

This wasn't the best year for comparisons but that drought stressed, rolled and grazed area looked great to me. I wished it looked like that from the first turpin flow to the $hit ditch. Just the amount of hunt able acreage it opened up is amazing. We just need more water in the bay itself for holding birds. Then that feeding area will bloom!


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## Papa Moses (Sep 27, 2018)

Best season yet for me. Was living out of Utah in October. Hunted pheasants like crazy November. Slayed the ducks in December and January. No teal and mallards like normal years- but man I hammered the gadwall! They decoy so well with the ice and made for a fun pile of 7 gray ducks. Even a nice band! Ended at 116 birds for the year (pheasants and ducks/geese). May potentially head south or hunt the late goose season. Who knows.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

MooseMeat said:


> Just finished the worst duck season of my life today! At least we ended on a good note. We pushed the boat a little harder than we probably should have, breaking up to 3” ice in some spots. After a lot of work, we finally made it to an open pocked of water that the birds had kept open over night against the reed line. Had that entire side of the pond to ourselves. Spoons saved the day with quick limits. Glad it’s over, now we can hopefully look forward to more water in more areas and a potentially much better season next year. I hope everyone else that made it out this morning had a great last day out as well
> View attachment 150905


Awesome! we still have 2 weeks left down south. I've only been out 3 times. Hopefully get out once more.


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## guner (Sep 25, 2007)

Did ok for last day of North, saw tons of geese flying and these weren’t the local flocks, but it was so clear, they were a mile high and it was very difficult to get any to come down for a visit, once again a ton of Golden eye, but just a few mallards. Couldn’t get close to any. Still a great day with a good buddy and my oldest boy, even if a bad day for birds!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Fowlmouth said:


> And 10 years ago, the hunting was much better. So that's my point! It keeps birds safe and people out. The phrag areas were natural resting areas. You wouldn't have to declare other areas off limits and restrict more public land from being hunted. The phrag did that for us, unless of course you were a hardcore hunter and bushwhacked trails. If the GSL was full this wouldn't be a discussion. The way things are now with the phrag, it's like it's own marsh system within a marsh system.
> I would like to hear airboaters opinions, especially the guys that launch out of Farmington. Do you think the hunting was better with phrag stands or worse? I know it's easier for you guys to get around out there without phrag, but I see how far out you have to go now to find birds.


I get what you're saying Fowl, but those phrag stands were essentially off limits to all but the "hardcore" hunters. I don't see much difference between declaring it off limits or leaving it open to hunting but very few actually able to hunt it.

Of course, if it were locked up in phrag, that would allow said resting areas to hold more birds for the impoundments. That said, what is the difference between birds holed up in unhuntable phrag pockets or rafted birds in the open water? Either way you're not going to kill many.

What we need is water and colder temps during the late season. That would solve alot of this.

What I need is an airboat. How would that be? That opens the flood gate of possibilities...even if u have to go further out. Even then, most foot soldiers aren't going out past 3-4 miles, so with an airboat, anything past that, you're just competing with other airboats.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

* Problem is, I would imagine any water savings are being siphoned off for new subdivisions and not directed back to the lake. *

MWscott72, this is a very true statement. *1-* City's that have a secondary water system for resident irrigation (sprinklers) build large concrete ponds to hold water that once would have gone downstream. The only way it gets there now, is by water spraying on the walks, entering the storm drain. then to the lake. *2- *Developments like subdivisions, HOA's, apartments, commercial buildings, pretty much any development in the last three years, over 1 acre, is required by the Utah DEQ to *RETAIN *80% of a 24hr 100 year storm event. Depending on where you live, that large of a storm is at an average of 1.25" of rainfall per hour for the 24hr. period. Then it can be released on an average of 2cfs into the storm sewer system. So if the GSL is to recover with water flows entering it as it has....that is changing and may not ever recover.


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

Utah has had a ton of growth, I think that is undeniable. But the scary thing is that I don't think the residential use has a ton of impact on our water usage. I've been reading just about any article I see on water use in Utah for the last year or so, and I can't remember exactly where I read it. But I think I read that residential use is only like 15% of the water usage in our state. If that's the case, it's hard to feel like you can make a difference by watering your lawn less, taking short showers, or flushing the toilet less. Most of the water usage in our state is agriculture, which uses something like 70% of our water. If that's the case, I have no idea how you fix that. It's easy for me to say "grow less crops" from where I sit, but I know it's not that simple, and I also don't rely on that for my families well being. So who am I to tell somebody else to use less water and destroy their livelihood.

The scariest data I read is that at our current water usage levels, we need annual rainfall/snowpack of 130% of the historic average JUST TO BREAK EVEN! That is terrifying for the future of the GSL and our reservoirs, lakes, and marshes. I'm no mathematician, but that is obviously not even remotely sustainable. 

I won't claim to have any answers, but I sure hope somebody smarter than me can figure out some solutions.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Well, it’s good to see everyone agrees the lack of water in the GSL is the biggest factor for poor hunting conditions. Many of us can remember the 1983 floods and the GSL so full they built pumps in the West desert to drop the lake level. In 2000 the lake started receding. I miss seeing the airboats cruising alongside the main road at Farmington. Those days are long gone, and I don’t think the lake can be saved at this point. It would take an act of God to get it back.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> . Those days are long gone, and I don’t think the lake can be saved at this point. It would take an act of God to get it back.



I remember the drought that went on during the 70's and early 80's. People were saying that it would take 50 or more years to get water levels back up to what they had been in years past. Then came 1983..


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Those 1983 floods were an act of God, so don't count that out, BUT smart money would say that if we are to stabilize the GSL at some level, it will take Utah residents pushing their local, state and Federal representatives to do more and holding their feet to the fire when they try to backslide.

It is true that over 70% of water use in UT is directed towards ag. I'm not a fan of telling a farmer that has grown alfalfa his entire life that he has to switch to something less "thirsty" next year, but there could definitely be some sort of phased approach over time to convert to more efficient plants, techiques and practices. Getting rid of simple flood irrigation would go a long ways, but the process takes time and can't be an overnight affair. That would be categorically unfair to a farmer.

Lastly, it is always up to "the one" to do what's right. Even if it doesn't look like it makes a difference if YOU flush the toilet less, take a quicker shower, or wash the car less, collective efforts can gona long ways. If everyone thought they could make a difference, what a difference it could make!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Just remember that wastewater along the Wasatch front will eventually make it's way to the lakes in the basins such as Utah Lake and the Great Salt Lake. 

The place to make a difference is the lawn watering and as was mentioned the irrigation of crops. But even the irrigation of crops is getting more efficient with the sprinkler systems that farmers are using.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I swear if you want to help the GSL flush the toilet everytime you walk by the bathroom. And take a good long shower. The only thing saving the GSL is sewage canals! They flow constant all summer long.

The corn fed spoonies will appreciate it also


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Makes you wonder what percentage of that 70% AG use is in the Great Salt Lake Basin?

The best would be to change "beneficial use" to include water allowed to reach the lake.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

middlefork said:


> The best would be to change "beneficial use" to include water allowed to reach the lake.


I think that is a major key.


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## Papa Moses (Sep 27, 2018)

Sad part is- the more sprinkler systems that are switched to by the agriculture is less ditch banks- which will be the end of what little pheasants we have left. 
Utah pheasants are already screwed I know but they are my favorite thing to hunt.
This past year I switched to watering the lawn 1-1.5 times a week and completely shut the system off in mid September (and never turned it on until mid may). Also, as a full time landscaper I turned down the water usage in several clients lawns to help where I could. Along with shorter showers, and running the dishwasher on the eco cycle (if that does anything??) 

a couple powerful late winters and heavy springs like 2019 will be very beneficial. 2019 completely filled Utah Lake from the drought of 2018. Hopefully another good year can fill the big brother GSL. I fear for the wasatch front with things like dredging Utah lake, and more industry being built along the banks of the GSL.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Too bad Bangerter’s pumps can’t be switched to ‘reverse’.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2138&context=wats_facpub


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

That's a good read Middlefork - thanks for sharing. One item that stood out for me was the per capita use of water by Utahns as compared to other arid areas. When our use is an average of 2.6 times that of other arid areas...and over 6 times usage in Isreal, there is a large room for substantial improvement! Baseline studies talked about in the write up should be completed, so that we have a solid understanding of where our starting point needs to be. Reminds me of budgeting - if you don't know where your starting point is, how will you ever be able to reach your end goal?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

This thread has turned into a different discussion. I could very easily cut my water usage in half of the state cut me a $10k check to make an RV on the side of my house. I’d also gladly turn my park strip into gravel for a small fee as well. 

The problem in talking about taking out grass is it is expensive! More today than ever. It’s cheaper to keep and maintain the grass than it is to turn it into something different. I’d like to think that we are all so environmentally conscious to do all this on our own, but as humans, we like a good deal. It is like public transit. The idea is to take FrontRunner to work to save pollution, but it takes me more than twice as long and even in today’s high gas prices, barely breaks even on cost for a monthly pass. Make it worth my time financially and I’ll consider it. (For the record, I’ve actually had a UTA pass for years, although I stopped using it March 2020…) 

I’m speaking more generally now. If the state is serious about conserving water, it has to invest. That means we have to invest, because ain’t nothing for free. Are we willing to do it?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

the reason my season sucked has nothing to do with the phrag or water levels of the gsl. 90% of the time I hunt utah lake. I have 3 launches 15 minutes or less from my parents house that I grew up hunting and know well. There wasn’t any water to float a boat this year because of the drought. In my waterfowl career im far beyond walking anywhere. If I can’t take a boat and all my decoys and other crap, I’m not interested in going. I’m sure I could have had great shoots this year if I was willing to walk out in some places, but I’m not gonna do that anymore. I’m personally a fan of the phrag on utah lake for the reasons mentioned above. It is also is good for hunters who work for it on the gsl as well. Plus the birds enjoy the shelter as well.

combine that with all the big game hunts I had going on, I just didn’t have a stellar season. We finished the season with 143 ducks in the boat and 2 geese. Far below the 250+ that we get on even an “off” year. The goose number still might climb, they usually pile in a pond we have permission for the last week or so of the season. Other than that, it’s time to look forward to next year


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Certainly not my best season either. I spent a good portion of October and November fishing. I really enjoyed it too. With the lack of water, lack of birds, lack of 20 gauge shells and the crowds, I just wasn’t feeling it this season. Maybe next season I will be Hardcore again, or I’ll go fishing.


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## altarip55 (Sep 3, 2020)

I had a great season. I got to get out and enjoy some hunts with my Brother. I got my 3.5 year old Daughter out for a few spread setup and watch days. My new girl Nala crushed a lot of retrieves and was a blast to have in the boat with me. Broke in my new boat setup. I seriously can't complain. Yeah, there could have been more ducks and better weather but man it's just nice to be out in a hole with a chance.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

*Sad part is- the more sprinkler systems that are switched to by the agriculture is less ditch banks- which will be the end of what little pheasants we have left.
Utah pheasants are already screwed I know but they are my favorite thing to hunt.*

I was going to bring this up too. There isn't a "perfect answer" to all the issues that are present. Take away water for AG use....Up goes the cost for feed for human and beast. Pipped irrigation....The Pheasant habitat isn't available.

There are 4 major Aquifers that the Wasatch front pulls from, and the depth of those resources were at average 180' deep 10 years ago. Now the draw down level is at 300'. These are wells that Municipalities get culinary water from. Don't fool yourself in believing that growth isn't creating water resource issues throughout the state. If Utah doesn't receive moisture from the sky, these aquifers are not able to replenish and the demand for water will continue and millions of dollars will be spent to drill deeper to reach the water.

Utah Lake and the Jordan River have been deemed "impaired body's of water" by the Utah DEQ from the pollutants entering the system upstream. With impervious surface growth of 45% average in the last 15 years along the front, these pollutants are entering the storm sewer system (that is untreated) and entering the lakes and rivers. It isn't going to get any better anytime soon.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

The desire to "build, build, build" is strong - not only here but everywhere. What worked 50 years ago, shoot even 15-20 years ago, will not work today. When communities have to essentially "mine" their water, the long term result of that won't be good. Either, the water won't be there eventually or is so cost-prohibitive to get to that it will dramatically increase costs beyond what is sustainable.

I look at cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas and think "what is their long term plan?" and then realize that SLC and the rest of the west isn't far behind...


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Lake Mead and the Hoover Dam is a perfect evaluation on demand. Most of its water goes to California. All the water features in LV is ludacris, it's a dessert for hell sakes. I cant recall the % of evapotranspiration that occurs from the fountains in Vegas, but it wasn't a small amount.


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