# The spider bull is dead



## gonelkin (Jan 9, 2008)

I just heard that Doyle Moss and his boys have succeeded in taking spidy, un-official score is 500 4/8 with a 377" inch main frame. WOOOOWWWWW Cannot wait for pics.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

BS


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> BS


Not BS, true story! 500 4/8 is legit.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Whoa! :shock: Congrats to the lucky hunter!!!!!!!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > BS
> ...


Ok Pro if you say it true then cool can't wait for pic. also sorry for calling BS it.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

If this is the case then this is history in the making. We are not only talking state records but worlds record. The current B&C world record non-typical american elk was taken in British Columbia in 1994 and scored 465 2/8". A record near 500" could stand for many, many years to come (if ever broken). Absolutely incredible!


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## EPEK (Sep 11, 2007)

Not only historical, but interesting how we all got to see pre hunt videos and sort of followed the process and getting the news of the results on this "VERY FAMOUS BULL". But you are very correct about how huge this is, blasting a current record by nearly 40".


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

The 500 4/8 is gross, net will be lower, but should still be the new World Record.


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> The 500 4/8 is gross, net will be lower, but should still be the new World Record.


So Bart, was it Doyle Moss and his hunters that did get this amazing bull? After having met the guy last summer I think he seems like an ok guy to me and I'm glad for him and his lucky hunter if this is the case.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Yes, it was the hunter with the Governor's tag that shot this bull. Doyle and the 'posse' put a lot of work/effort into locating this bull. The fact that it was killed on September 30th, long after the hunts opened, attests to them doing it w/o the tactics they have been/are accused of using. This bull outsmarted all the archers/early rifle/muzzy hunters before meeting his maker. EVERY 'average Joe' that had a Monroe tag had amble opportunity to harvest this awesome animal. And yet, folks like w2u feel the need to say this is 'bad' for hunting in general, w/o ANY merit!


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Denny Austad killed the bull with Mossback. _O\ 
377" fame, 123" junk....whoah!! *(())*
Way to go guys!! -*|*-


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

I WANT PICS!!! this is to cool!


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

Bart, this may be a stupid questions, but I was wondering about the Gross vs. Net scores for a non-typical bull. I understand deductions are made from a typical bull, but a non-typical confuses me a bit. I just thought I read something about the bul being 500 something gross, but would be less net. I was just wondering how that would work?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

The "normal" mainframe points and circumferences are scored as if it were a typical with deductions in differences between right and left antlers, while the abnormal points are simply added on. The difference between gross and net are those differences in the mainframe score.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> Yes, it was the hunter with the Governor's tag that shot this bull. Doyle and the 'posse' put a lot of work/effort into locating this bull. The fact that it was killed on September 30th, long after the hunts opened, attests to them doing it w/o the tactics they have been/are accused of using. This bull outsmarted all the archers/early rifle/muzzy hunters before meeting his maker. EVERY 'average Joe' that had a Monroe tag had amble opportunity to harvest this awesome animal. And yet, folks like w2u feel the need to say this is 'bad' for hunting in general, w/o ANY merit!


+1

I am sad that it took Mossback to bring the bull down, but they did. Others tried and failed. I do not see how a guide service doing there job and doing it well is going to hurt the sport. Bottom line Mossback steped up and got the job done.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

What do they say???? Nets are for fish!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> What do they say???? Nets are for fish!


And record books. 8)


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not a big NET fan, Symmetry doesn't mean dick to me.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Sure, sure...except for SCI


Pro, What weapon was used?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

So are they going to do DNA tests to see if he was truly "farm" raised. -BaHa!- 

Can't wait to see the pics and hear the story.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Sure, sure...except for SCI
> 
> Pro, What weapon was used?


SCI also allows high fence bulls to be entered. :evil:

Denny used a rifle.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, I am very happy for him and Mossback. Thanks for the info.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Reading through this , I can't help but think back a few months ago when we were discussing what units in that area you guy thought were best. I belief Monroe did not make the top 10 on a few guys lists????????? Right or wrong????????

Most said Fishlake, Dtton,Boulder and so on was better........

Cold Track and I were the only ones on here wanting Monroe before Spider was around.

What do ya think now?????????


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

glad to see this over.......

to bad some lone hunter didnt get him. anyone but the @ssback cronies! ohh well on to better things i guess!


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

I agree i too am sad that i took @ssback to bring him down but thats the way the cookie crumbles.you know you say that EVERY average
joe had a chance for him i think I would dissagree the amount of money that they got for going after this bull I bet they sat there
and bumb him like crazy go ahead and rake me over the coals just my opion. but congrats to the guy who pulled the trigger.that must 
have been a huge rush!!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Reading through this , I can't help but think back a few months ago when we were discussing what units in that area you guy thought were best. I belief Monroe did not make the top 10 on a few guys lists????????? Right or wrong????????
> 
> Most said Fishlake, Dtton,Boulder and so on was better........
> 
> ...


I think one bull does not make a unit better than another. The debate was on overall 'quality', not ONE bull. I still stand by my stated opinion. The OVERALL 'quality' on the Monroe is less than that on the aforementioned LE units.

stuckduck, how would they "bump" this bull and still be able to get it on the ground? Or, are you saying Mossback is so good that they can predict where a "bumped" bull will end up? The comedy never ends. :roll:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Hey PRO , Whats up?????

I might have just changed my mined, Been out in the bookcliffs for the last 8 days, 21st year I've gone out there, I drew an elk tag there in 1990........Still didnt think much of it........

Then a few days ago, I find a new place I havent been in all the years i've gone out there, And WHAT??? 

15 bulls and 40 cows no one has seem to found for quite some time...One real good one.

I just may have to burn the wife points out there next year now.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm excited to see the pictures of the bull. I will throw out something for all the critics to consider. When you draw the governor's tag, and then decide to spend tens of thousands of dollars to hire a guide, the last thing you want is an elk snubbed to a post to shoot. If that is what you are after, you go to an elk ranch somewhere. If you are going to that much expense and yes, effort, you want a first class hunt, that is really a hunt, not a shoot. I know absolutely no details of what transpired - but nobody spends that kind of money just to pull the trigger on a wall ornament. I guarantee that. 

The reports of the bull seem extrordinary - and taken on public lands? That is a huge testament to what trophey hunting can be in Utah. I'm excited to see the pictures.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

While I don't know Denny Austed he apparently has harvested some extremely impressive trophies:

http://www.mossback.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2642

http://www.mossback.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=625


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## yearight (Sep 30, 2008)

PROUTDOORS, you said it yourself "posse haters" another word for a group of individuals doing something illegal or unethical is a GANG. I don't like GANGS and you can argue all you want but the truth will still be the truth and the facts won't change because you don't like what someone says. 

The following is taken for the DWR Ethical hunting handout

"Fair chase
Many ethical questions face hunters. And many more will arise as technology advances. Now, more than ever, hunters must keep the fundamentals of ethical hunting in the forefront of their minds.
A good way to determine whether a hunting practice is ethical is the concept of fair chase.
Fair chase forms a balance between the hunter and the hunted in which the wild animal usually escapes unharmed but is sometimes taken by the hunter. Fairness to the animal, and its chance to escape unharmed, might be the best way to determine if a behavior is ethical or unethical. Many hunters would deem unethical any practice that tends to give him an unfair advantage over his prey."

I think the shoe fits

I'm not a hater of the Mossback GANG but I despise the unehtical way you KILL TROPHY ANIMALS. Again the truth is the truth and facts are facts. 

If the MOSSBACK GANG does not hunt unethically I'll fall over and Die right now. Oh wait i'm still alive.

Mossback Team ha, more like Mossback GANG

How many people does it take to kill a trophy animal?

Answer: as many as Doyle needs.

Here are the facts about the Mossback GANG. 

FIRST LIAR DOESNT HAVE A CHANCE

Im sure the truth about the kill and the story the hunter tells when he gets home will be completely different.

Truth; Doyles GANG of 4 or more unlincsed hunters( they are unlicensed hunters because they are hunting for a certain animal with the intent to have someone KILL it) scour the mountain looking for the trophy animal. Once it is found they use their radios and cell phone to call in the location of the animal. 

Doyle and the KILLLER arrive at the designated meeting place. while one of the unlicensed hunters keep an eye of the unsupecting trophy.

Doyle, his GANG and the KILLER arrive and after video taping the animal and setting up the shot, the KILLER makes an awesome 200 yard shot and KILLS the Trophy. 

There is hooting and hollering and hand shakes to go around. More video is shot and the KILLER tells the cameraman how happy he is that Doyle and his GANG are so good at find trophys for him to KILL.

STORY TOLD AT HOME

Boy I spent 7 days of hard hunting with Doyle and then on the seventh day were came over a ridge and there he was, the trophy of a life time. I took a 500 yard shot and down he went. I worked my butt off for this trophy and everyone can do it.

DWR

I hope DWR eventually changes the rules in the proclimation so unethical hunters like the MOSSBACK GANG can stop their illegal hunting.

The facts are Doyle is interested in money, recognition and making his videos. The MOSSBACK GANG does not conduct a "FAIR CHASE HUNT" All of Doyles little minons can rant and rave against this post but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH and your arguing does change the FACT of HOW the MOSSBACK GANG hunts and conducts business.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Can the mods please delete this kind of BS???


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

yearight said:


> PROUTDOORS, you said it yourself "posse haters" another word for a group of individuals doing something illegal or unethical is a GANG. I don't like GANGS and you can argue all you want but the truth will still be the truth and the facts won't change because you don't like what someone says.
> 
> The following is taken for the DWR Ethical hunting handout
> 
> ...


You sure got er figured, don't ya bud.

 :roll:

Sure you sure your dad is gonna like you using his computer while he's at work? Did you skip your last class of the day?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Shut up Papichulo Tree.


Hey you used it. Do you know what Papichulo means?


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Go choke your chicken in private.

Big animals killed by the highest bidder and largest bank account. Impressive!!!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Why do you even care?


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Shut up Papichulo Tree.
> 
> 
> Hey you used it. Do you know what Papichulo means?


Of course I do. Although it's the first time I've been called it by a man. :wink:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

yearight said:


> PROUTDOORS, you said it yourself "posse haters" another word for a group of individuals doing something illegal or unethical is a GANG. I don't like GANGS and you can argue all you want but the truth will still be the truth and the facts won't change because you don't like what someone says.


What a nut! Do you really expect to be taken seriously? I guess these guys are just so smart that they waited 6 weeks to take him down, you are ridiculous! NIce first two posts, what is your other user name?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Of course I do. Although it's the first time I've been called it by a man.


Oh I was just teasing with you.

If Doyle's client didnt kill the bull people would say hes a bad guide. Now that he has killed the bull then people are upset. Either way people would be bad mouthing Doyle.


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I'm not a big NET fan, Symmetry doesn't mean *dick* to me.


Tree is that your new favorite word or just the word of the day for you?


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## sharpshooter25 (Oct 2, 2007)

So do you think that Mossback only charged the normal trophy fee of 5k? I bet it was a lot more.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

fatbass said:


> Let's get the terminology correct. Doyle, proutdoors and Doyle's minions are PIMPS and the shooter is a JOHN.
> If I talk up a honey in a bar and take her home for a roll in the hay, that's a fair chase hunt. If I pay a PIMP to find a honey willing to pork for money, that's prostitution. I guess we should lobby to have prostitution legalized, since the ethics of prostitution and guided hunts is the same. :wink:


Bwhaahaaahaaa. Now isn't that a peach of a comparison!!!


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

fatbass said:


> Let's get the terminology correct. Doyle, proutdoors and Doyle's minions are PIMPS and the shooter is a JOHN.
> If I talk up a honey in a bar and take her home for a roll in the hay, that's a fair chase hunt. If I pay a PIMP to find a honey willing to pork for money, that's prostitution. I guess we should lobby to have prostitution legalized, since the ethics of prostitution and guided hunts is the same. :wink:


Bingo, The only people that would disagree with that comment is the pimps themselves  (Or anybody who has the money to lose) :roll:


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Have you guys ever been "pimped" by a friend or family member....what's the difference?

Money you say???

My son is "pimping" me this weekend to help him get his first spike bull.
I'll get WAY more compensation & gratitude from that than if i were ever getting "pimped" by someone killing a 500" bull!!
You can't put a price on that!! -()/-


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

The difference is this "hunter" will go down in history as a great"hunter", even though he did not "hunt" for the animal. Seems to me more like geocaching. Somebody gives you the GPS coordinates & you "seal the deal". Seems to me that a great guide wouldnt need 20 employees scouting for him!!!!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> Have you guys ever been "pimped" by a friend or family member....what's the difference?
> 
> Money you say???
> 
> ...


Ahhh.......... YES, MONEY. You cant equate the two. It doesn't work or is even close. By the way keep hunting with your son and your son hunting.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

STEVO said:


> The difference is this "hunter" will go down in history as a great"hunter", even though he did not "hunt" for the animal. Seems to me more like geocaching. Somebody gives you the GPS coordinates & you "seal the deal". Seems to me that a great guide wouldnt need 20 employees scouting for him!!!!


How do you know he didn't hunt for the animal?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> STEVO wrote:
> The difference is this "hunter" will go down in history as a great"hunter", even though he did not "hunt" for the animal. Seems to me more like geocaching. Somebody gives you the GPS coordinates & you "seal the deal". Seems to me that a great guide wouldnt need 20 employees scouting for him!!!!
> 
> How do you know he didn't hunt for the animal?


I believe they *hunted* for him for ONE and half months


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

I SERIOUSLY beg to differ!!!!
Unless you know who a person is, especially the one your reffering to, it's not wise to talk sh!t behind their back.
I have been hunting with Denny Austad many times, he's is hands down one of the best "trophy hunters" and managemnt guys i have ever known. 
He is in this thing not only for his trophy wall, but he truly cares about wildlife management and what it means to take older age class animals......unlike most people.
He builds his own line of rifles and is touted as one of the best long range shooters out there.
He is not just some "schmuck" out killing animals for fun. 
I have seen that guy "camp" on an animal through grueling weather conditions from morning till dark so he can take that animal, he does NOT wait for a freaking phone call or radio call like some are saying.

I say "Congratulations Denny Austad and Team Mossback.......beat THIS one!!"


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

No, no you are wrong. a guy with that much money has been seen in Doyles tent for the last month and a half. :roll:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> STEVO said:
> 
> 
> > The difference is this "hunter" will go down in history as a great"hunter", even though he did not "hunt" for the animal. Seems to me more like geocaching. Somebody gives you the GPS coordinates & you "seal the deal". Seems to me that a great guide wouldnt need 20 employees scouting for him!!!!
> ...


Only someone spouting pure ignorance would make such a claim w/o having firsthand info on the matter. As for being called a prostitute, that is about as original as sliced bread. EVERYONE who gets paid for services rendered to another is in the SAME category, which is everyone employed. Talk about ignorance. :roll:


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

A Real shame the Greenback crew was involved !!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

RobK said:


> A Real shame the Mossback/ Greenback crew was involved !!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


A real shame that you feel that way. :roll:


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

So Pro, As a pimp, How many hookers do you have these days?? Your not one of Doyles hookers are ya?? Mabey thats why it hits a little close to home for ya!!! :wink:


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> I SERIOUSLY beg to differ!!!!
> Unless you know who a person is, especially the one your reffering to, it's not wise to talk sh!t behind their back.
> I have been hunting with Denny Austad many times, he's is hands down one of the best "trophy hunters" and managemnt guys i have ever known.
> He is in this thing not only for his trophy wall, but he truly cares about wildlife management and what it means to take older age class animals......unlike most people.
> ...


Skull Crazy,

I understand that this Denny guy might be the greatest hunter on earth. And he might be the most admirable guy you know. But you really are going to tell me Doyle and the gang haven't been out there for a very long time. I pattern animals. and use information and I don't really care that Doyle has figured out how to make some cash on hunting. I just want to know if the other guys that paid Doyle to guide for them got a glimpse at spidey? I mean really you want me to believe that nobody else that drew a LE tag in Monroe was willing to pay the gang to "guide" them. Some how this Denny"s money was not an issue. Let me guess Doyle told everyone else no because he wanted to help Utah's economy. Or that Denny is such a good hunter Doyle could trust that they would get the footage they needed to sell more videos. Maybe Denny just got lucky and the other hunters Doyle guided for the last month and half would have shot them but he was not to be found. My point is money played a part of this. and of course the average joe is going to be upset by it. Oh well


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

STEVO said:


> So Pro, As a pimp, How many hookers do you have these days?? Your not one of Doyles hookers are ya?? Mabey thats why it hits a little close to home for ya!!! :wink:


Whatever it takes to get some 'lovin'. :mrgreen:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> So Pro, As a pimp, How many hookers do you have these days?? Your not one of Doyles hookers are ya?? Mabey thats why it hits a little close to home for ya!!!


There is no reason for you to talk like this on the forum. You know Pro isnt a PIMP and he doesnt have hookers. Don't be a retard and please act like you have half a brain.


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

If the MOSSBACK GANG does not hunt unethically I'll fall over and Die right now. Oh wait i'm still alive.
The facts are Doyle is interested in money said:


> +1 and your going to live a long time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > So Pro, As a pimp, How many hookers do you have these days?? Your not one of Doyles hookers are ya?? Mabey thats why it hits a little close to home for ya!!!
> 
> 
> There is no reason for you to talk like this on the forum. You know Pro isnt a PIMP and he doesnt have hookers. Don't be a retard and please act like you have half a brain.


 :lol: Your his lead "he-b**tch" that comes to mind :rotfl:

On a serious note. How many guys have you paid for info on a animal, as a guide??


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

RobK said:


> [b said:
> 
> 
> > If the MOSSBACK GANG does not hunt unethically I'll fall over and Die right now. Oh wait i'm still alive.[/b]
> ...


Proof please. Just one ounce, that's all I ask for!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> The facts are Doyle is interested in money, recognition and making his videos. The MOSSBACK GANG does not conduct a "FAIR CHASE HUNT" All of Doyles little minons can rant and rave against this post but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH and your arguing does change the FACT of HOW the MOSSBACK GANG hunts and conducts business.


+1 and your going to live a long time !!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Have you been hunting with Doyle? I have and my hunt was fair chase. I was accused of slander on this forum when I said someone username which isnt slander, but you have used Doyle and Mossback which is SLANDER. Doyle could file a case against a lot of people, but its probably not worth his time.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

The bull is dead it all over now let move on guys. MOD PLEASE LOCK THESE THREAD


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> RobK said:
> 
> 
> > A Real shame the Mossback/ Greenback crew was involved !!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
> ...


Sorry Pro , don't like anything about the way he guides(?) or his video's !!! 
Bought one video and it turned me off , trashed the video and will not have anything to do with Mossback .


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Sorry Pro , don't like anything about the way he guides(?) or his video's !!!
> Bought one video and it turned me off , trashed the video and will not have anything ton do with Mossback


.

I like Doyle's video because he guides on PUBLIC LANDS unlike other videos which are filmed on Private lands.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Riverlution said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> > I SERIOUSLY beg to differ!!!!
> ...


Well i can't speak for Doyle, i don't guide for him, but Denny DID have the Goveners tag for crying out loud, i'm sure he was at the top of the priority list, that's how the outfitting world works sometimes, but not always!
As far as his other paying clients getting to even hunt the same mountain or area...i don't know. What i clearly stated was that ANYONE with a tag for Monroe had just as much of a chance to kill that bull as the Mossee Possee did. Those guys just have the luxury of hunting and staying on that bull all summer/fall and sometimes that's what it takes to be successful. 
I sure wish i could afford that, but unfortunately i can't. But i CAN assure you that Denny and his guides have been hunting that bull nonstop for at least 30 days, can anyone on here say they have hunted a particular animal for 30 straight days never giving up? Again, THEY have that luxury!
Lets quit griping about who killed this bull and just be thankful the original rumor of him getting gutshot was simply a rumor.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > The facts are Doyle is interested in money, recognition and making his videos. The MOSSBACK GANG does not conduct a "FAIR CHASE HUNT" All of Doyles little minons can rant and rave against this post but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH and your arguing does change the FACT of HOW the MOSSBACK GANG hunts and conducts business.
> 
> 
> +1 and your going to live a long time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Have you been hunting with Doyle? I have and my hunt was fair chase. I was accused of slander on this forum when I said someone username which isnt slander, but you have used Doyle and Mossback which is SLANDER. Doyle could file a case against a lot of people, but its probably not worth his time.[/quote]

Problem is he would have to prove that NONE of it was true for it to be slander. I dont think he is able to do that. :roll:


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

I say we arrange for a steel cage wrestling match... Pro-Mossback VS Anti-Mossback with special guest referee......Ted Nugent!

I can see this event setting pay-per-view records.


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Sorry Pro , don't like anything about the way he guides(?) or his video's !!!
> > Bought one video and it turned me off , trashed the video and will not have anything ton do with Mossback
> 
> 
> ...


The only video i have seen/bought had a hunter who had a GOV, tag and it showed the whole mossback gang doing thier thing . Sorry , i could not believe they called it hunting , let alone fair chase !! :roll:  :evil:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Problem is he would have to prove that NONE of it was true for it to be slander. I dont think he is able to do that.


Can you or anyone else prove that is was true????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: BUT you are giving out false information.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Gary Fish,

I have to respectfully 100% disagree with your post. First off you don't draw a Gov. Tag, you buy it. 

"Elk snubbed to a post", Thats exactly what they want or they wouldn't hire DM and his pack of guides to be out looking for bulls for him 24/7 for the last 3 months or longer. If the guy truly wanted a hunt to remember for the rest of his life, then why didn't he just go out himself or with a couple of buddies and actually do some hunting, he can hunt ANYWHERE IN THE STATE for THREE MONTHS. That's plenty of time and plenty of places to hunt to get the job done on a bull of a lifetime.

And lastly, Ranch hunts are out of the question because your name doesn't get in the record books with a ranch killed bull and that is probably the most important thing to some of these guys.

And for the people who want to make an argument about " What's to difference between someone who takes his whole family and a bunch of friends on a hunt with them and hiring Mossback"? The difference is the dudes family and friends are not out looking for bulls every single day 24/7 for 3 or 4 months before the hunt starts.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

If you don't like the fact that guides can be hired to take someone out deep sea fishing, griz hunting, caribou hunting, elk hunting... I can respect that. Go complain to the DWR and other elected officals.

If you disagree with our DWR selling tags at auction I can also respect that, again go complain to the DWR and other elected officials.

If you are insanly jelous that some guy gets to go to work each day with a mullet and camo pants, guiding people in on Utahs biggest bucks and bulls year after year and all the while *breaking no laws *in doing so, get over it.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> The only video i have seen/bought had a hunter who had a GOV, tag and it showed the whole mossback gang doing thier thing . Sorry , i could not believe they called it hunting , let alone fair chase !!


Define: fair chase and What did Doyle do in the movie that lead you to believe it wasn't fair chase? Did you see the animal tied up? Was the animal in a cage?


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Spider bull, a handsome bull, I am sure outwitted many hunters....RIP. I hope had a fair chance.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > The only video i have seen/bought had a hunter who had a GOV, tag and it showed the whole mossback gang doing thier thing . Sorry , i could not believe they called it hunting , let alone fair chase !!
> 
> 
> Define: fair chase and What did Doyle do in the movie that lead you to believe it wasn't fair chase? Did you see the animal tied up? Was the animal in a cage?


They sure dont have a problem on the video's letting you see the posse that has "worked so hard" for that animal. Its ok. Mabey you have a less of a definition of "fair chase" than the rest of us. I mean "fair chase" is in the eye of the viewer right?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

STEVO said:


> Problem is he would have to prove that NONE of it was true for it to be slander. I dont think he is able to do that. :roll:


What does it say about YOUR character when you spew @%$ that you have NO proof of? He could do it, but can you? :evil:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> They sure dont have a problem on the video's letting you see the posse that has "worked so hard" for that animal. Its ok. Mabey you have a less of a definition of "fair chase" than the rest of us. I mean "fair chase" is in the eye of the viewer right?


Fair chase to me is the animal has a chance to escape. Its not a high fence hunt. The animal hasnt been injured or it hasnt been tied up.

The Spider bull was a "FAIR CHASE HUNT" on Public lands.

What do you consider fair chase?

There is no difference between me having 10 friends on my hunt or hiring 10 guides. The animals dont know I paid money for the guides.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> > STEVO said:
> ...


Yes talk about ignorance!!!

I'd say that PIMP is indeed accurate terminology for folks with your types of services:

Pimp
Pimp\ (p[i^]mp), n. [Cf. F. pimpant smart, sparkish; perh. akin to piper to pipe, formerly also, to excel. Cf. Pipe.] One who provides gratification for the lust of others; a procurer; a pander.

No, not in the same catagory for everyone who has a job Pro. Not everyone is "pimping" their services.
One could also argue that it also follows very well with this definition:

A pimp (also called fleshmonger) finds and manages clients for prostitutes and engages them in prostitution in order to profit from their earnings.

@ssback and other guides etc also profit greatly from DVD's and other wares.

One more question for you Pro. Where are your DVDs???


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Pro, do you provide a prostitute with your hunts. Wow, you probably don't get paid or tipped enough :wink: :mrgreen: We want pics


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

So if some of your family and friends bust their asss off on your hunt and you take them out to eat or something then do you consider them your prostitutes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> So if some of your family and friends bust their asss off on your hunt and you take them out to eat or something then do you consider them your prostitutes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


No I call my hunting buddies Whores. cuz they do it for free. And like it.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

With a name like Hariy Nut.... oops Harry Nutzack My guess would be YES  

Just razzin ya. :mrgreen:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> So if some of your family and friends bust their asss off on your hunt and you take them out to eat or something then do you consider them your prostitutes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


What? You equate hunting with your family the same as paying huge amounts of money hiring guides???

OK, if you insist,........ yes, your family members would indeed be prostitutes in this case.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

This is starting to head to the gut pile


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> What? You equate hunting with your family the same as paying huge amounts of money hiring guides???
> 
> OK, if you insist,........ yes, your family members would indeed be prostitutes in this case.Harry Nutzack


So your a Prostitute to your employer then right? He/she hires you to do a service for them.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > What? You equate hunting with your family the same as paying huge amounts of money hiring guides???
> >
> > OK, if you insist,........ yes, your family members would indeed be prostitutes in this case.Harry Nutzack
> 
> ...


Pimp:
Pimp\ (p[i^]mp), n. [Cf. F. pimpant smart, sparkish; perh. akin to piper to pipe, formerly also, to excel. Cf. Pipe.] One who provides gratification for the lust of others; a procurer; a pander.

Yes, I and everyone else are prostitues for their employer.

Coyoteslayer........Caaaaarrrfullllly put the lid back on the glue bottle and step out side for some fresh air.


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## berettaboys (Sep 21, 2007)

i didn't take time to read all nine pages, so it might of been mentioned already.
but does any budy know what area of the monroe he was taken on??


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

Yeah, He was in the mossback camp tied to a tree for a month and half.


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## Farsider322 (Sep 30, 2008)

I don't have a problem with using guides to hunt an area that is unfamilliar, or is new to the hunter. I do have a problem with targeting one animal that was a talked about as much as Spidey. It is not just the Mossee guys, but every hunter that had a tag for Monroe wanted to find the spider bull. He never had a chance. Any one of the hunters could have hired guides to help find the infamous bull, but only one could get him. If you have a problem with hiring guides to hunt an area, then go to the RACK meetings and voice your opposition. 

In other professions, there are licenses to provide a service. Maybe its time to make the guides become licensed by the state, and also have the guides pay a percentage to the state. The fees would be passed on to the hunters, but if its only about the money and they can pay it...Who cares. It only enables the DWR to purchase more hunting lands and access for the rest of us. 
I say charge the guides a fee and their employers a percentage of their take. 
As far a whether it is right or wrong...... I will leave it to the rest of you to battle out.

I have better things to do....like packing for my elk hunt.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

There have been a few requests to shut this thread down. I've looked for some reasons and we are pretty close to that. If we want to keep the discussion about the ups and downs of hiring guides, and if that is as good or bad as someone not - that's cool. Just keep personal attacks out of it please. 

Carry on.


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Farsider322 said:


> I don't have a problem with using guides to hunt an area that is unfamilliar, or is new to the hunter. I do have a problem with targeting one animal that was a talked about as much as Spidey. It is not just the Mossee guys, but every hunter that had a tag for Monroe wanted to find the spider bull. He never had a chance. Any one of the hunters could have hired guides to help find the infamous bull, but only one could get him. If you have a problem with hiring guides to hunt an area, then go to the RACK meetings and voice your opposition.
> 
> In other professions, there are licenses to provide a service. Maybe its time to make the guides become licensed by the state, and also have the guides pay a percentage to the state. The fees would be passed on to the hunters, but if its only about the money and they can pay it...Who cares. It only enables the DWR to purchase more hunting lands and access for the rest of us.
> I say charge the guides a fee and their employers a percentage of their take.
> ...


Guides are state regulated.
Perhaps the state should charge the Guide a trophy fee for any Bull over 400, only fair as that is what the guides are apparently doing!


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## Cold Track (Sep 11, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with using a guide, but the way these guys get their large animals is a lot different from any other guideing going on. Sure there are plenty of similarities, but come on for someone who has the whole state as their hunting area and are primarily hunting on DRAW UNITS (coyoteslayer) which are better than most any private properties. I mean seriously, there aren't too many outfitters in the world that can sit on an animal for over a month because every year they have governor tag clients that have all the time and the money to do so. These guys are good hunters and I'm sure find a lot of good animals doing their own scouting, but a lot of the true giants have been known about through a phone call. Pretty rough hunt to sit and watch the Spider bull on private ground just waiting for him to step onto public. How much did they offer the landowner to go on his property before the bull messed up and crossed the fence? It would have been cool to see someone else get this bull, even another outfitter who only offers a seven day hunt. Say what you want, but I guarantee Pro will back his employer I know I would. I really wished some farmer with a bow would have taken him or anyone but MB, but hey at least there is one cool thing NEW WORLD RECORD FROM UTAH IN 08'.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Ironman, Guides in utah are NOT state regulated.


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh, but they are, albeit indirectly. They are federal regulated as well, as they are required to have all applicable permits and insurance to guide on Public land in the State of Utah, including Sitla, BLM, and USFS lands. Unless the laws have changed that is the case; and anyone "guiding" without permits will be fined.
Anyone can guide on private land.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Ironman said:


> Oh, but they are, albeit indirectly. They are federal regulated as well, as they are required to have all applicable permits and insurance to guide on Public land in the State of Utah, including Sitla, BLM, and USFS lands. Unless the laws have changed that is the case; and anyone "guiding" without permits will be fined.
> Anyone can guide on private land.


100% correct.


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

is this spidey ///

http://www.muleymadness.com/forum/viewt ... f=4&t=6864


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

That would be him, or whats left of him at least. Right in front of Jorgensens. It was only a matter of time before the bull dropped. The only thing I have to say is why the hel didn't he get a full head mount done? I guess he still can but looking at where he cut the horns off he isn't planning on it.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

He's a great bull but I know I've seen bigger maby not with as many points but still bigger.








He was bound to pass on his genes maby in 10 more years another spidey will come out of the timber.(Looking on the bright side)


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> He was bound to pass on his genes maby in 10 more years another spidey will come out of the timber.(Looking on the bright side)


You have seen one bigger than what is believed to be the new world record? I guess such a statement makes sense coming from a person who loves GM.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> #1DEER 1-I said:
> 
> 
> > He was bound to pass on his genes maby in 10 more years another spidey will come out of the timber.(Looking on the bright side)
> ...


I was thinking the same thing. I'm just nicer that you. :mrgreen:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

Be careful Huge. Making fun of GM might be considered a personal attack. I got in trouble for inviting a guy to breakfast at The village Inn. :? Although, I have seen a ranch bull from Canada that goes about 490. It's hanging on the wall at White's Ranch. It's thick with lots of points and mass, but I've seen other bulls that were wider with longer main beams. I feel bad that spidey got the business.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

BERG said:


> Be careful Huge. Making fun of GM might be considered a personal attack. I got in trouble for inviting a guy to breakfast at The village Inn. :?


I can see that, I know what Village Inn is known for. :mrgreen:

Sorry 1I, but you are the most nonsensical person I have ever met, logic plays no part in any discussion I have ever had with you, like your comment above. I apologize and will be nicer from here on out.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

He likes chevy's more than anyone I've ever met. You've got to give him that. He should see if chevy would pay him to tattoo his forehead, with a bowtie. I'd bet he'd do it. :lol:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> BERG said:
> 
> 
> > Be careful Huge. Making fun of GM might be considered a personal attack. I got in trouble for inviting a guy to breakfast at The village Inn. :?
> ...


Well then, thank you very much. Have we ever met? Your apology accepted.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

BERG said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> > *Sorry 1I*, but you are the most nonsensical person I have ever met, logic plays no part in any discussion I have ever had with you, like your comment above. I apologize and will be nicer from here on out.
> ...


I don't believe so, that was meant for 1eye! The village Inn comment was for you, Berg.


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## trouthunter1 (Sep 12, 2007)

Wow, 11 pages. That's 30 minutes of my life I won't get back. :lol: Just a question,,,,I heard stories of a$$backs croanies blocking public roads and threatening hunters not to go past them,, harrassing anyone in the area that they were scouting. This is just a story circulating. I am not saying that it is true, but if it is, then i have a big problem with his tactics. I don't blame a guy that had the gvnr's tag to hire a guide, I know I would.


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> BERG said:
> 
> 
> > Huge29 said:
> ...


Ok, thank you for the clarification. :lol: Next time I'll just invite folks to The Outback. Is that one safe?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I'll try not to get going on the GM, Chevy thing here. Maby its just the looks of the bull or the photo but I don't really like the looks of spidey (not to say I wouldn't take him and mount him in a heartbeat) but he's kinda messy looking. I like cactus horns in deer but typical horns in elk. Honestly I never went to look or in search of the spider bull to ever even see him, I never saw him once other than in videos or photos. Yes he is an awesome bull and probably the biggest there is. I guess I am saying I've seen bulls that just look better in my eyes. 

There were a few years I watched a bull for 2 years, its been 2 years since I've seen him but I imagine he's dead now. I found his sheds one year but have since sold them off. He was a 7X7 with a few extra 1 or 2 inch stickers that I wouldn't necessarily give the pleasure of calling points but if you were to count them too he would have had 8 on one side and 9 on the other. This is the biggest bull I ever seen in real life. During 2005 this bull wintered higher than any bull I have ever seen. I kept looking for him along the bench and on the face of Cove but never could come across him. That was in April and May of 05', in October of 05' I found his sheds on the Muzz. deer hunt just above Big Lake on Cove Mountain (a stretch of Monroe Mountain). These were the biggest sheds I've found to this day (let them go for $150). They were sitting out on a side hill near some Aspen and pine and hadn't been found because knowone had looked there for sheds I would never have thought they would be that high myself. The last time I seen him was in '06 on Long flat in September during the rut. Honestly in my eyes this bull seemed as big and a lot cleaner looking than the spider bull everyone has been hiped up about. All I know is he was probably good for the Cove side of Monroe because not as many people hunted bulls over there. The sad part is Cove Mountain (IMO) is overrun with elk. To many bulls and not enough room for bucks. There isn't a nook or cranny anywhere not high not low that there isn't a bull with 10 cows. Everywhere I go all I see is elk 10-20 rags, 10-20 shooters, 20-30 cows in a day, on the other hand I see 2-3 small bucks, 10-20 does, and 0-0 shootable bucks. Point is there are plenty of bulls in Utah and its only a matter of time before another steps out that makes people say whoa.


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## livdawg (Mar 10, 2008)

All I can say is WOW


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

OK, nevermind what I said before. That thing is wide and long! Holy crap. :shock:


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

Ummmm....I don't think that's Spidey. That looks like the farm bull killed a couple of years ago that was all the rage on the internet hunting sites. Nice try though.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

man what an incredible bull...it was mentioned that it _didnt_ appear a head mount was going to be done. i highly doubt that, a skull cap can be removed in many different ways in order to achieve this. more than likely the entire skull or a very sizeable portion will be held intact for the drying period.

livdawg, wrong pic.


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