# The draw



## stevedcarlson (Apr 19, 2011)

Can some one tell me why it takes so long for our draw take place it seems to take a really long time to do tge draw so can any explane to me why I does. Thanks


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

the draw will take place mid may. It takes so long because they don't know yet how many tags they are giving out. They are currently going through the RAC's with the proposed numbers for them to vote on. They will then send those votes to the wildlife board that is the first part of May. Those numbers then need to be put into the drawing system in Nevada. They then run the drawing and start hitting CC's the 2nd to 3rd week of May and emails will be out by May 26th.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Because the herd numbers haven't been set yet or the number of tags that are going to be let out during the draw. 

They could set the application period for the month of April and people would still want the draw to be earlier.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Well the OP makes a fair point. There is no reason to have to put in so far ahead of the draw. They could let you put in by April, run the draw in May and be done with it. At least we put in by Feb now... used to be early January.

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Id rather put in April. I hate applying in February.


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## stevedcarlson (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah thanks I'm just a little antsy to see what we draw this year last year suck no tags not even a deer tag hopefully this year!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Why don't they have the application period after the RACs and Wildlife Board decide on the number of permits? We apply for permits before we even know how many will be issued. Seems a$$ backwards to me.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One thing that gets me is when you apply for a tag and then find out after the draw that there were no tags for that unit. I think that the right thing for the DOW to do in this case is to refund the application fee, but that will never happen.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I miss the days when we found out at the rend of April


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I miss the days when there was no draw. Just go buy a tag over the counter....


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

It could be worse, Look at New Mexico. They had all of their apps done and their you pay for each tag at the time of apps. But then when they came down to set the tag #'s and new laws passed, There were not even tags available for the Non Residents in almost all of the Sheep and Ibex units. So many people applied for and paid in advance for tags that were not even available. That gets expensive. To give someone your $$$ and have to wait to get it back.

The tags there are a couple thousand for non residents.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Fowlmouth said:


> Why don't they have the application period after the RACs and Wildlife Board decide on the number of permits? We apply for permits before we even know how many will be issued. Seems a$$ backwards to me.


This is exactly my gripe with the current system...paying $10 per entry for tags that may or may not even be available. I mean, how much do the tag numbers really fluctuate from year to year? Really have to have 3 months of committee meetings before they decide to just keep it the same as before?

But, they make the rules and they also control the tags so we all can just sit an b**** about it, but in the end we will still keep putting in.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

KineKilla said:


> I mean, how much do the tag numbers really fluctuate from year to year? Really have to have 3 mont


Even with a population boom in the area, a hunt I put in for this year reduced tags. No rhyme or reason why. I wish I knew before hand, I would have made adjustments to my app.

On the other hand, another hunt increased tags.

They do change, but you go into the draw based on last years numbers.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

robiland said:


> It could be worse, Look at New Mexico. They had all of their apps done and their you pay for each tag at the time of apps. But then when they came down to set the tag #'s and new laws passed, There were not even tags available for the Non Residents in almost all of the Sheep and Ibex units. So many people applied for and paid in advance for tags that were not even available. That gets expensive. To give someone your $$$ and have to wait to get it back.
> 
> The tags there are a couple thousand for non residents.


That is not what happened. The Terk decision was reversed making it to where NM did not have to or not have to have a quota for BHS, Ibex, and Oryx. NR's did not have anything taken away other than the upper "unfair" advantage on these three species. Basically, NM is now more in line with other states on how many NR permits can be available. Now, having it implemented this year was not right and should have been left as it was until next year.

NM already had the number of permits figured out before people began putting in. Our deadline was late March and results were due April 23rd and have now been pushed back to the 30th.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I'v called the DWR this year about this very subject, and they told me "the reason why it takes so long for results to come back is because they don't have all their surveys in, harvest surveys, winter kills, ect"......so we apply in Feb, and they get to hold onto OUR money until they can determine how they will run the draw, BS!! I'd rather apply in mid April, and get results back mid May..you know why else they do it??? because YOU want to hunt AND I want to hunt so that's just how it is, we either dont apply and not hunt or apply a few months in advance and hunt, and thats how it will be until WE can find a way to change that method.....


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

goosefreak said:


> I'v called the DWR this year about this very subject, and they told me "the reason why it takes so long for results to come back is because they don't have all their surveys in, harvest surveys, winter kills, ect"......so we apply in Feb, and they get to hold onto OUR money until they can determine how they will run the draw, BS!! I'd rather apply in mid April, and get results back mid May..you know why else they do it??? because YOU want to hunt AND I want to hunt so that's just how it is, we either dont apply and not hunt or apply a few months in advance and hunt, and thats how it will be until WE can find a way to change that method.....


What money is the DWR holding on too? All you have spent so far is the application fee and nothing else. You don't get charged for the tag until you draw it.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

an application fee for a tag that currently doesn't exist to start.


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## huntfishlive (Oct 22, 2013)

they need to run their budget for the year to decide how much money they want, i mean need...I mean they gotta count the herd numbers.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

goosefreak said:


> an application fee for a tag that currently doesn't exist to start.


That is where a person needs to do their homework in the first place instead of putting in for a tag blindly.

I got burned once but that was because they pulled all the tags offered for the hunt along with the next years draws.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

that may be the case. luckily it doesn't effect any of my tags (that I know of) none-the-less I'm still complaining because I do think it is ridiculous that we put in the draw in Feb. and they dont run the draw for 3 month. why do they want our App fees in feb???


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

They do it so that you can anticipate the tags that you might never draw or the ones that you should draw but don't. Look at Colorado, you have to have you application in by the first week in April and pay up front for both the application fee and tag then get to wait until June. Arizona spreads it out for you. The do their application for elk and pronghorn early and draw early but the deer tag application isn't until May-June with a hunting license that needs to be purchased to put in for the draw. 

I just don't worry about the waiting time anymore.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

It's a well known conspiracy


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

They do it early so they can beat the surrounding states to the draw, so to speak! It's a business decision similar to someone opening their store an hour before their competitors in order to get your money before you decide to spend it elsewhere.

And yes they do keep some of your/my money in the meanwhile. The money they keep is the $6.99 from the $10 application fee that they DON'T have to pay the Fallon NV company to maintain a reminder mailing database, to print and send out the approx. 182,000 reminder cards, to process the applications, to maintain and staff the eight 800 toll free trunk lines and 1 fax line 24/7 for 11 months, to conduct the draws, to notify all applicants of the results through emails, to print and mail out the permits and to notify hunters and collect the harvest reports (among other things). What DWR does with my $6.99 per application is unknown to me, but I personally don't worry about it.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I like how multiple posts start with "They do it because....." That sounds like a fact is coming. Fact is, the proposed fact is in fact not a Fact.


If the draw was any other way, we would still be having this thread right now.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> It's a well known conspiracy


That made me laugh


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

182,000 reminder cards

Even at 4 cents each that amounts to $7,280 just in the cost of mailing the cards, let alone printing them up and getting them to the PO!!!! They should quit sending out those cards. All of us interested in putting in for the draw are on top of the app period anyway.


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## 4pointmuley (Sep 18, 2007)

It's because the dwr wants to give less time to scout the area you have drawn. That way you won't get the trophy and they still have your money!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

This would be a much bigger deal if you had to pay for the entire tag up front. If the state ever goes to that I would push hard to have the application period the month before out of fairness to people. 

However, the only thing that they have charged us is the money they will keep anyway. So I will just go fishing while waiting to see if I received my elk bonus point and lifetime deer tag...


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## awbmab (Aug 9, 2008)

How often is a hunt in the guidebook and then eliminated due to no tags?


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## fishdoggydog (Apr 19, 2014)

I went to a hunting the west seminar with Jim Zumbo speaking a long time ago. He was proud of the fact he had 11 points in Colorado and intended to use them on a Ranching for Wildlife elk hunt. That spring CO changed the rules to residents only, he lived in WY, so was shut out of that plan. It impacted me with 4 points in that the muzzleloader hunt we expected to take that fall filled up with people burning points before the rules changed again. Another two years before we could get that tag, now about 12 points needed. Can a person see the UT tag results on their credit card earlier than the e-mail?


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## kstorrs (Oct 29, 2012)

fishdoggydog said:


> Can a person see the UT tag results on their credit card earlier than the e-mail?


Yes and no, the credit cards get charged for the ones who successfully draw tags days to weeks before the emails are sent out. You just don't know exactly which unit you drew unless you only made one choice...


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## dunn_gary (Sep 11, 2007)

I put in for Wyo, and they also require the entire fee up front. App period pretty much coincides with Utah's. :?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

dunn_gary said:


> I put in for Wyo, and they also require the entire fee up front. App period pretty much coincides with Utah's. :?


Wyoming has proposed changes for next year...

No more fee's up front--------------There gos those odd's.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Wyoming has proposed changes for next year...
> 
> No more fee's up front--------------There gos those odd's.


I like this!


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## chukarflusher (Jan 20, 2014)

goofy elk said:


> Wyoming has proposed changes for next year...
> 
> No more fee's up front--------------There gos those odd's.


 And I will quite giving wyoming my money if that passes


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

There is also talk in Wyoming of reducing there generiuos NR's quotas ..

If these two changes happen, Wyoming NR tags will become extremly tough to draw.

General, region G and H deer tags will likely jump to 5 year waits ,,,
General elk to may-be every 4 years ,....
Good antelope units to 5-8 years ...

I dont see how any NR would "like" these changes????


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> There is also talk in Wyoming of reducing there generiuos NR's quotas ..
> 
> If these two changes happen, Wyoming NR tags will become extremly tough to draw.
> 
> ...


If tags should be cut in any unit/state I think it should be NR tags first. So if they are needed I am okay with this as well.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Bears Butt said:


> 182,000 reminder cards
> 
> Even at 4 cents each that amounts to $7,280 just in the cost of mailing the cards, let alone printing them up and getting them to the PO!!!! They should quit sending out those cards. *All of us interested in putting in for the draw are on top of the app period anyway.*


They should keep them coming!

I couldn't count the number of times I've seen UWN members ask about the application periods for the draws. Or try doing it at the last minute only to find all the other procrastinators are overloading the DWR site. Or having their credit card declined. Or finding out their license has expired. And that's not counting the thousands of hunters who aren't quite as interested as you and I, but still want to hunt 8 months later. Or the younger and older hunters who find they don't remember things as well as they should for whatever reason.

Without those reminder cards, the odds for you and I would likely be a little bit better, but would undoubtedly cost more since there would be fewer licenses purchased (@ $26 each) and application fees paid (@ $6.99 each) to the DWR and smaller Pittman-Robertson funds handed down and we would have to make up the difference.

Additionally, if those reminder cards cost .15 each to print and .04 postage, they only have to generate about 1000 additional licenses and applications over and above what would come in without them to break even. Any number above that is profit.

Finally, this work order is in the current contract and would have to be negotiated for the next one, so it couldn't be changed now even if we wanted to.

FWIW, they also send out some reminder cards for all (or nearly all) of the other draws which go on almost all year, and which are hard to keep track of.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

JuddCT said:


> If tags should be cut in any unit/state I think it should be NR tags first. So if they are needed I am okay with this as well.


Ridiculous to say the LEAST!!!

States rely on NR funding HEAVALY----And Wyoming DWR is strugling financialy.

This strategy could/would end ALL NR hunting in any particular state the used it!!!!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I hope WY keeps the tag fees up front. It remains one of the few states where you can draw a quality tag with a reasonable amount of time. Take away the upfront fees and it will be another story all together.

I hope they don't follow Montana ' s lead and both raise their tag fees (deer/elk combo) and do away with the upfront cost all while raising the price of applying for trophy species to $70 per species. What a joke! I'm through with MT.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Ridiculous to say the LEAST!!!
> 
> States rely on NR funding HEAVALY----And Wyoming DWR is strugling financialy.
> 
> This strategy could/would end ALL NR hunting in any particular state the used it!!!!


You sure like using absolutes in your arguments. In no way would it end NR hunting in said states. Turn the limited NR tags into auction tags and give them to SFW and MDF. Heck give them a cut as well, I am sure they can make up for any lost revenue.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

The rediculous statement is to ever think that NR hunting will not be available. Even in states like Oregon that screw the crap out of NR hunters limiting quotas to 5% of tags while charging a full license fee to apply seem to have plenty who are more than willing to play the game. The Oregon pages of MM are filled with whining, yet the applications still roll in. Can you blame states for extorting NR hunters? Nope. I, for one, am willing to pay to play. States are stupid if they don't try to collect what their resource is worth. That value is determined by what people are willing to pay.-------SS


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

This is rough waiting so long to find out what we did or didn't draw. In 2010, not only did I find out what I drew in April but had already scouted the unit a couple times by now.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I already know where I'm hunting.......Utah muzzy(cuz I'm playing the point DNR point scam) bull elk in Oregon, then whitetail in Idaho. Wild cards in the OIL and LE draw but highly unlikely. Also highly unlikely that I will draw in Nevada but that would add another hunt in November. Nothing to see here.-------SS


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Yeah Ridge, the waiting does suck. By the time the official emails come out, the antlerless applications will be opening (last year it was May 29). That just doesn't seem right time-wise.


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