# Which arrow set up would you choose?



## DevilDog09 (Oct 4, 2016)

I have the LE elk archery tag on the Wasatch coming up. I’ve read tons about the kinetic vs speed debates when it comes to arrows and penetration. Here’s my dilemma. I have a Bear Attitude. It’s a single cam bow. It shoots real nice. So I have to set ups of arrows and I’m needing to choose one to finish dialing in my bow. Option # 1 - Easton FMJ 5mm 300 spine. Arrows fully set up weigh in at 495 gr. They are shooting 228 fps. Option 2# - Beman ICS Precision Hunters 300 spine. Arrows weigh in at 450 and are shooting at 250 fps. Talk me into or out of one. Shot placement is key, I know, just wanting blunt opinions on these arrows. Thank you ahead of time.


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## Stikbrandon (Jun 25, 2018)

Victory elite arrows! With a 100 grn sevr broad head


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Either set up will work just fine. 

I wouldn’t shoot a victory arrow at a prairie dog.


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## 2blade (Mar 26, 2018)

I always go for the heaviest arrow setup that delivers a trajectory that I can live with. For me that would be the 450 gr arrows with a cut on contact head such as a Magnus Stinger or Black Hornet. Nothing wrong with heavy arrows though, they penetrate well.


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## DevilDog09 (Oct 4, 2016)

sheepassassin said:


> Either set up will work just fine.
> 
> I wouldn't shoot a victory arrow at a prairie dog.


You wouldn't worry about them only flying 228 FPS?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DevilDog09 said:


> You wouldn't worry about them only flying 228 FPS?


No.

What broadhead?


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

It's hard to say which is best without a few more details (broadhead type, your max shooting range, etc...) You can pick slightly better penetration or slightly better trajectory. The difference is moderate, but not huge so I recommend shooting the arrow you feel most confident in. If heavier makes you feel better, do it. If you are worried about speed and trajectory, go for that one. If one is slightly more accurate, definitely choose that. 

Good luck. I hope you have a great hunt.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

DevilDog09 said:


> You wouldn't worry about them only flying 228 FPS?


Thousands of elk have been shot and killed with arrows flying slower than that. You think native Americans had bows that shot over 228 FPS? And they killed bison with them and were very effective at it.


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## DevilDog09 (Oct 4, 2016)

RandomElk16 said:


> DevilDog09 said:
> 
> 
> > You wouldn't worry about them only flying 228 FPS?
> ...


Muzzy Trocar 100 grains


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## DevilDog09 (Oct 4, 2016)

sheepassassin said:


> DevilDog09 said:
> 
> 
> > You wouldn't worry about them only flying 228 FPS?
> ...


Very good point! I need to stop letting these 300 fps bows get in my head. Keep it stupid simple eh?! Thanks for the reality check


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

sheepassassin said:


> Thousands of elk have been shot and killed with arrows flying slower than that. You think native Americans had bows that shot over 228 FPS? And they killed bison with them and were very effective at it.


Sorry but this is a specious argument. American Indians were more likely saturating buffalo with so many arrows that they resembled pin cushions when they went down. And they weren't taking 30 yard shots. Probably more like shooting them from 5 feet or less while on horse back.

Either arrow you select will be fine by a large margin. I would choose the faster arrow to minimize trajectory and flight time. I suppose there may be a lot of potential obstacles like tree limbs where you hunt and a flatter trajectory may be helpful in that regard. The faster arrow may be less subjected to environmental anomalies such as wind.

Good luck.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I’d shoot the heavier arrow if it were me. This year I plan to shoot Victory RIP TKO arrows weighing in at 425gr. Mine are moving a good deal faster than yours but will lack the KE or momentum that a heavier arrow would provide.

I plan to build some fmj 340’s next season that will weigh in at or near 500gr. The weight will help quiet the bow, spread my pins out a bit (better for splitting pins) and provide more momentum. I too shoot fixed blade heads (G5 Striker).


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Steve G said:


> Sorry but this is a specious argument. American Indians were more likely saturating buffalo with so many arrows that they resembled pin cushions when they went down. And they weren't taking 30 yard shots. Probably more like shooting them from 5 feet or less while on horse back.
> .


Ok, there's guys with bows shooting 300+ FPS that have to do the same thing to kill an animal. My point was, if the most bare bones bottom of the pile archery equipment can and did kill thousands of animals, a modern bow with today's technology, is certainly capable of killing effectively as well. Even at slow speeds


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Steve G said:


> Indians were more likely saturating buffalo with so many arrows that they resembled pin cushions when they went down. And they weren't taking 30 yard shots. Probably more like shooting them from 5 feet or less while on horse back.


That or running them off a cliff . . .


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm kinda a heavier arrow guy. FMJ 300 @ 28" 100 grain G5 Striker. Never bothered to weigh them and too lazy to do the math. Don't remember the fps but I think around 260.

On big bulls penetration is king. Weight seems to be better than speed. 

Shoot a bunch and get a good feel for trajectory for whatever you decide to shoot. Up to 40 yards you shouldn't have any problems. Longer than that and you have some serious decisions to make.

Have fun.


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## runallday (Sep 17, 2018)

What you shoot doesn't matter as much as how well you shoot it. Getting the shot is the hard part. I like the Victory Arrows as well. I shoot 28" with Rage hypos or Trocars depending on the shot. 420 grains at 265fps. Dial in your 40-60 yd shots up and downhill. Don't get caught up in the hype and shoot a few hundred arrows till you're confident.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

CPAjeff said:


> That or running them off a cliff . . .


And that is how Chugwater, WY got its name.

My current setup is a 400 gr arrow shooting at 295 fps. I use a brass insert upfront and 100 gr broadhead. Have had zippo problems punching through large cows and mature bulls out to 40 yds.

A good sharp broadhead and placing behind the shoulder matters most.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

I use goldtip hunter xt's (always have) with 125gr striker v2 and a 15 year old Mathews bow. My arrow setup is just over 400gr and I get about 270fps. This is a pretty sweet setup for me as the trajectory out to 65ish is tolerable and the penetration is pretty darn good. If you're thinking you might have a slightly longer shot, I'd go with the slightly faster arrow.

In the end, go with what you're most confident with!


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## Jonboy1100 (Aug 7, 2019)

Me personally, would want the heaviest setup. Reason being, if shot placement is not perfect I want it to do its job. How often do elk stand perfectly broadside as still as a statue waiting for us to aim, calm down, quit shaking , and shoot the "perfect shot". And then continue holding still though they heard our bow go off.... uh almost never! So prepare for the for the worse and practice and hope for the best. 
My setup is 605 grains total shooting 200 grain two blade broadhead. Yes it's slow but does its job , and very well at that . Shot whitetail, and two elk . Complete pass through and still had enough energy to bury in the ground. The furthest one went after the shot was downhill about 70 yards, and that one was running left to right 35 yards out. ( I'm not endorsing shooting a running animal, my friend made a bad shot on it a few hours earlier, the elk didn't get the memo about standing still perfectly broadside, anyway he hit it in the rear ham. I tracked him down a few hours later I had to do what I had to). 
When I started elk hunting a so called expert at a bowshot convinced me to shoot light and fast the then new short 4 blade by muzzy . (I had been using heavy setup with long 4 blade muzzy for deer for years with great success.) Well that setup was utter failure. I still suffer the nightmare of that 13 years later. I vowed then to find the best setup I could that could perform under the worst circumstances. That's how I ended up with what I have. Hope you can take something good from this . Learn from my mistakes so you don't have to suffer and most importantly the animal as least as possible.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Did you kill an elk or what?


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jonboy1100 said:


> if shot placement is not perfect I want it to do its job. How often do elk stand perfectly broadside as still as a statue waiting for us to aim, calm down, quit shaking , and shoot the "perfect shot". And then continue holding still though they heard our bow go off.... uh almost never! So prepare for the for the worse and practice and hope for the best.


The last 6 elk I've shot with a bow all stood still and took it like a champ. The effectiveness as a hunter comes into play as well. If they think they know you're there, that's when they start ducking arrows and won't stand still.

Doesn't matter what equipment you're using, if you hit them in the dik, you're not gonna find it. You need to make sure you do your job correctly before you can rely on your equipment to do it's job correctly. Too many guys want to use their equipment as a handicap to make up for their poor performance.


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## Jonboy1100 (Aug 7, 2019)

I agree , shooting in the **** , is not where to shoot them. And we should all continue honing our hunting and shooting skills. And part of being a good hunter is making sure our equipment will perform even in marginal hits. If we were perfect we wouldn't need broadheads, we would send a field tip through there heart every shot no matter how close or far, if we were perfect. 
Sheep ass assin, the elk 1 elk I lost, I had crawled into a herd of 100 head, cows 15 feet away . Got to 30 yards of the herd bull raking a tree. Being my first elk hunt and used to shooting whitetail(they have a much smaller kill zone) I aimed tight to his shoulder. As I released the bull rocked back a few inches and the arrow struck the shoulder, penetrated 8 inches or so into the lung. I felt terrible and still do. That's why I decided to shoot a heavier arrow, and hone my skills as a hunter. I replied to devil dogs post to help him decide what arrow to he wanted to use, not to be critical of what anyone chooses to use. I'm glad you have found a great setup. Best to all ! Happy hunting!


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

ray is the only one here talking about what matters in this thread. where are the pics?


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Looking forward to sheep's pictures of the elk he killed with an atlatl and some sharpened willow sticks. Nobody cares about the bravado. People were talking about arrows in today's world, where we are required to make an ethical kill and we're not doing anything we can to get meat to survive the winter.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> Looking forward to sheep's pictures of the elk he killed with an atlatl and some sharpened willow sticks. Nobody cares about the bravado. People were talking about arrows in today's world, where we are required to make an ethical kill and we're not doing anything we can to get meat to survive the winter.


I've never said I killed anything with wooden arrows, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I've killed 26 elk, 11 with a bow. Let me know which ones you want to see photos of :roll:

I'm surprised you're still chirping as loud as you are in the big game section, considering how much you seem to know about archery elk hunting in Utah and the regulations regarding that topic


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

sheepassassin said:


> Thousands of elk have been shot and killed with arrows flying slower than that. You think native Americans had bows that shot over 228 FPS? And they killed bison with them and were very effective at it.


No problem, I've got more than enough confidence to speak up when guys start talking about Indians and buffalo in relation to modern archery equipment.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> No problem, I've got more than enough confidence to speak up when guys start talking about Indians and buffalo in relation to modern archery equipment.


What are you talking about now? You need to keep the topic semi related to the current discussion


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Jonboy1100 said:


> I agree , shooting in the **** , is not where to shoot them. And we should all continue honing our hunting and shooting skills. And part of being a good hunter is making sure our equipment will perform even in marginal hits. If we were perfect we wouldn't need broadheads, we would send a field tip through there heart every shot no matter how close or far, if we were perfect.
> Sheep ass assin, the elk 1 elk I lost, I had crawled into a herd of 100 head, cows 15 feet away . Got to 30 yards of the herd bull raking a tree. Being my first elk hunt and used to shooting whitetail(they have a much smaller kill zone) I aimed tight to his shoulder. As I released the bull rocked back a few inches and the arrow struck the shoulder, penetrated 8 inches or so into the lung. I felt terrible and still do. That's why I decided to shoot a heavier arrow, and hone my skills as a hunter. I replied to devil dogs post to help him decide what arrow to he wanted to use, not to be critical of what anyone chooses to use. I'm glad you have found a great setup. Best to all ! Happy hunting!


So I assume you're saying that you picked your arrow setup to be more forgiving in terms of penetration only. A lot of guys will go for more speed when they're wanting a more forgiving arrow; there would be more room for error in yardage and the arrow would arrive faster, helping reduce the effect of an elk that decides to move after you release the arrow.

Is there any reason in particular you decided to go with the extreme end of heavy and slow rather than a balance?


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

rtockstein said:


> Is there any reason in particular you decided to go with the extreme end of heavy and slow rather than a balance?


He probably listened to a podcast and some whitetail hunter that's never shot an elk, said to use heavy slow arrows because shooting an elk is like shooting a steel wall... that and all the "kool kids" are doing it.


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## Jonboy1100 (Aug 7, 2019)

Actually, I got the idea from a elk hunter I met while hunting elk. I tested a few setups compared with my then lighter setup. They flew great. Barely moved my longer range pins. They penetrated my rhinehart target considerably deeper. And the bow was noticeably quieter. And I started thinking back to bow, arrow,broadhead combination I started with in early 90's.(a used golden eagle ,2319 arrow I think and 125 3 long bladed broadhead and I have 31" draw so long arrow) . Harvested lots of deer with it. Even though it was slower than what I have now. And whitetails are fast. So I went 100 grains heavier then the lighter setup on my current bow. grain field tip, I have used it two seasons for elk and harvested two. 
It


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## DevilDog09 (Oct 4, 2016)

I went with the heavier arrow set up and out a cut off of a max shot at 50 yds. Those Muzzy Trocars fly pretty darn good. Thank you for everyone’s input, I appreciated the help.

Now for the meat of my post....the hunt.
It was by far and away the craziest hunt because of 10 minute encounter I had. So I got up to the bottom of the ridge I had been getting into the elk at on the last Thursday of the hunt. I started lightly cow calling and got an immediate response from both 2 bulls and some cows higher up. As I got in closer I could tell the bigger bull was heading up hill and away from me. Well, I let out a locator bugle and the game changed. That bull did a 180 and screamed at me from probably 200 yds up hill. I waited a bit and let out a more aggressive bugle and before I was done he had cut me off and was starting to chuckle on the end. I quickly surveyed the country to plan where I could bring him and where my best shooting lanes would be. I waited maybe 2 minutes and let out another bugle with the same result; him cutting me off. This time he had cut the distance in half again and was maybe 80 yds out and I could hear him making a b line down to me. I got into my shooting position and waited. He bugled again from the tree line 40 yds away. There was a well worn game trail that I expected him to come walking down which would have given me a 22 yds shot. The bull hung out for maybe 3 minutes but wouldn’t come investigate further. I could hear him snorting and walking around up there. He let out one last bugle and I responded and cut him off this time. Instead of walking down the game trail, this bull made a hard left turn and began walking through the trees towards my position. I could see him through the trees and hear his antlers hitting as he aggressively walked towards me. I got my first look at him and all I saw was a mass off antlers. I was in shock at what was happening and how big he was. He was maybe 10 yds away when he let out another screaming bugle right in my face and kept walking. I drew back as he passed a tree that was between us, he was now 5 yds away and headed at a slanted angle right at me!!! From here my mind was overloaded and went blank haha. In my head I thought I would have a good enough angle that I could thread my arrow right through the back of his lungs as he was getting closer. As soon as I released the bull simultaneously turned more into me and I got the rear part of his neck. He jumped back to about 20 yds and stared at me. As I frantically tried to nock another arrow, I drew back and he ran back up the ridge. After trying to contemplate what had just happened, I waited and slowly began to follow the bull tracks which led me to a blood trail. I trailed the bull from 9 am until 4 pm. His blood trail dried out around1/2 mile. He was headed directly uphill into where they had been bedding. I retraced my steps and retraced the blood trail u til dark hoping that I was wrong. No luck. I made a decision to not hunt a different bull with my remaining day and continue to try and locate this bull I hit. Tag soup. 

Hind sight is always 20/20 right. Maybe I shouldn’t have let out the last bugle; that most likely allowed the bull to zero in on my location and kept him from walking down the game trail I figured he would take. Maybe I could have waited 10 more seconds and let him walk past me (he would have hit me) and maybe got a 2 ft broadside shot. In the end, it was such a dynamic situation that I don’t have an answer. It was a memory that will last a lifetime for sure. Now my 5 year wait starts, and I can’t wait to do it again, with a better outcome this time. 

Thank you again for everyone’s help with my questions. I appreciated all the knowledge and help


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

That was sweet. Even better on a harvest but that was a cool story. Must have been pretty shaken up to get a neck shot that close. Yikes. Fun times it sounds!


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