# hunter orange



## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

What is the punishment for not wearing hunter orange during rifle hunt?


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Could be getting shot by some rookie Elk hunter seeing the bushes move! Especially here in Utah!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

ram2h2o said:


> Could be getting shot by some rookie Elk hunter seeing the bushes move! Especially here in Utah!


Exactly, I was going to say perforation and bullet holes in the body.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Elkaddict said:


> What is the punishment for not wearing hunter orange during rifle hunt?


For a hunter or non-hunter?

-DallanC


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

would the DWR do anything? I only ask as my friend saw some guys not wearing any


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

doesnt everyone have to be wearing orange? Or am I wrong?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Elkaddict said:


> doesnt everyone have to be wearing orange? Or am I wrong?


Requirement is ONLY for hunters. Its a good idea, especially opening of Deer or Elk seasons to wear orange even if you are just out taking pictures. Can you imagine the uproar from the yuppie crowd if they were forced to wear orange during rifle hunts? LMAO...

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Elkaddict said:


> would the DWR do anything? I only ask as my friend saw some guys not wearing any


Technically only the person with the tag has to have full orange. I've taken my wife out hunting who had the tag, and worn just the jacket and not hat. Regulations are found in the Hunting Proclaimation... if you are not hunting, it doesnt apply (much like the shooting hours requirement... it only applies to hunting).

Much <3 for Wyoming and Alaska's orange requirements.

-DallanC


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## AJ13 (Apr 28, 2015)

We call guys like that lucky. lucky they have not been shot yet. On our elk hunt we seen a few guys with no orange on.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

If someone gets shot accidentally, its the fault of the shooter, orange or not on the victim. Shooter is fully responsible for what happens when the bullet leaves the barrel, better make **** sure of your target before you pull that trigger.


-DallanC


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Utahs orange law SUCKS!!!!!!!!

States that dont require orange? NO BODY GETTING SHOT THERE....:!:

Utahs orange law need to GO.......IMO.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

goofy elk said:


> Utahs orange law SUCKS!!!!!!!!
> 
> States that dont require orange? NO BODY GETTING SHOT THERE....:!:
> 
> Utahs orange law need to GO.......IMO.


I beg to disagree, I knew someone who accidentally shot another deer hunter prior to LA orange law. Luckily the victim survived.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Utahs orange law SUCKS!!!!!!!!
> 
> States that dont require orange? NO BODY GETTING SHOT THERE....:!:
> 
> Utahs orange law need to GO.......IMO.


you need to pull your head out of your ***. it does not suck.

if you are hunting and you dont have orange on it about a 500 bucks for the fine.


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## Vern21 (Jul 8, 2010)

The only purpose I see in Hunter Orange is to prevent from shooting at an animal between two hunters. If the purpose is so someone doesn't mistake me for an animal, then that is a bigger problem. You should never be shooting at something that you aren't for certain what it is.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Way to politely disagree there dyhntrdstn--Wyoming only requires an orange hat and I like that. I don't think Idaho requires it at all so I guess you can tell both those states to pull their heads of of their asses as well-->LAME! I don't see either of those states having any more hunters shot than Utah does. 

When I upland hunt in Utah during the general season I wear an orange hat but that's it--I am not required to wear any orange while upland hunting but I throw on the hat just because. I will be hunting chuks this weekend wearing my hat--I'm not afraid of getting shot


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Big game animals don't care if you wear blaze orange or Realtree's most recent wonder camo. My dad used to wear a full-on pumpkin suit head to toe, and he killed plenty of big game. The only thing you have to worry about as a hunter w/r/t deer, elk, goats, etc. is movement and breaking up your outline some (and maybe the phosphorescence from UV brighteners). Get some breakup pattern blaze orange if you're worried about the blaze orange thing. Animals still won't see you, but the rest of us will.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Heck I hunt at Farmington Bay and I wear hunter orange duck hunting....j/k :shock:


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

riddle me this you orange supporters--

->We have a couple surrounding states that have little to no orange requirements
->These states have as many hunters as we do in Utah
->Statistically speaking these states do not have any more accidental shooting deaths or injuries than we do here in the beehive state

So if it doesn't make everyone more 'safe' then what is the point? Are most of you guys state road workers that just like to wear the same thing on the mountain that you do at work?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Airborne said:


> Are most of you guys state road workers that just like to wear the same thing on the mountain that you do at work?


Thats an interesting point, considering road workers are changing from orange to chartreuse green as its more effective at being seen.

-DallanC


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

DallanC said:


> Thats an interesting point, considering road workers are changing from orange to chartreuse green as its more effective at being seen.
> 
> -DallanC


Chartreuse is too hard for hunters to spell, let's just stick with orange ok :grin:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Airborne said:


> Chartreuse is too hard for hunters to spell, let's just stick with orange ok :grin:


Only the hunters that dont fish in the offseason ;-)

-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I like the hunter orange law-- at least some sort of orange-- for the simple reason of knowing where other hunters are. I hate hiking in on top of other hunters during the archery and ML hunts. It is nice on the rifle hunt to not go where you can already see orange. I'm not afraid of getting shot. And I like that it keeps the trespassers to a minimum too..... 

Wyoming's law of a hat or vest would be ok, but I'm fine with Utah's law too.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I have been shot before and no, its not fun. I was shot with a shotgun when I was 12 on the opening morning of pheasant season at 8:05. I had on a red flannel shirt. I got hit with several BB's, enough that it knocked me over in the ditch. We plucked a few BB's from the skin. It was a guy chasing a rooster up the fence line and did not see me or the private property signs on both sides of our fence. Ever since then, I always orange, a hat and vest. The birds never seem to see me either. But on the rifle hunts, I wear it also. Why not? I am not worried about being shot, sometimes ;-) , but it doenst hurt your chances of harvesting an animal. IT ups my safety, so why not. But to each their own.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Thats an interesting point, considering road workers are changing from orange to chartreuse green as its more effective at being seen.
> 
> -DallanC


That and it is too hard to pick out a worker while they are wearing orange in a cone or barrel zone. I saw one that was almost hit when he stepped out from behind a barrel near moving traffic. I hadn't even noticed him standing there.

The chartreuse green on workers is a big safety factor when everything else is orange.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Airborne said:


> riddle me this you orange supporters--
> 
> ->We have a couple surrounding states that have little to no orange requirements
> ->These states have as many hunters as we do in Utah
> ...


Not arguing against your comment, but I would like to see those statistics that show what you state above.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Packout said:


> I like the hunter orange law-- at least some sort of orange-- for the simple reason of knowing where other hunters are. I hate hiking in on top of other hunters during the archery and ML hunts. It is nice on the rifle hunt to not go where you can already see orange. I'm not afraid of getting shot. And I like that it keeps the trespassers to a minimum too.....
> 
> Wyoming's law of a hat or vest would be ok, but I'm fine with Utah's law too.


I like this--some good reasons

I also like the Wyoming law, I think a hat should be sufficient. The 400 some odd square inches divided by the root of pie is stupid--Utah should simplify it and call it good. It will never happen but here's hoping


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

PBH said:


> Not arguing against your comment, but I would like to see those statistics that show what you state above.


No way Jose

I follow the UWN internet argument protocol doctrine whereby if it sort of makes sense in my little mind and I aint never heard diffn't when by golly it is an internet fact and it's your job to prove me wrong--so go for it PBH--prove me wrong--I am the one that started out right! That's the doctrine--sorry but that's the way it is.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I saw a guy this year wearing an orange hoodie, he had a brown vest over it. Only orange arms and neck could be seen. LOL


-DallanC


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

I agree with Packout that it is nice to have an idea of where other hunters are. Second reason I think at least a little bit of orange is a good thing is because long range shooting seems to be more and more common these days. I shot my spike elk this year from 20 yards with my .270 If the situation were right someone shooting from 800 yards away could have been closer to me than the elk if they didn't know I was there, and from 800 yards it's likely they wouldn't for a couple of reasons.


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

Truelife, that makes sense. That is one thing I hadn't considered. I still don't agree with the law however.
A few of the earlier comments make it sound as if getting shot is the victims fault, wearing orange or not. I couldn't disagree more. I also believe if you are concerned about being shot by an irresponsible person by all means wear orange. If not it should be your choice. With muzzleloaders now capable of shooting 300 yds we are in the same boat as the rifle hunt. Not seeing many people being shot there. Most of your accidental shootings are from poor handling of weapons, not people mistaken for game. No amount of orange will prevent those types of shootings.
I say we all can make up our own minds and shouldn't be judged for our choice!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

neverdrawn said:


> Truelife, that makes sense. That is one thing I hadn't considered. I still don't agree with the law however.
> A few of the earlier comments make it sound as if getting shot is the victims fault, wearing orange or not. I couldn't disagree more. I also believe if you are concerned about being shot by an irresponsible person by all means wear orange. If not it should be your choice. With muzzleloaders now capable of shooting 300 yds we are in the same boat as the rifle hunt. Not seeing many people being shot there. Most of your accidental shootings are from poor handling of weapons, not people mistaken for game. No amount of orange will prevent those types of shootings.
> I say we all can make up our own minds and shouldn't be judged for our choice!


That's what tombstones are for..."he was rigorous in his defense to be stupid and here he lies because he didn't wear hunter orange". Regardless of who's fault it is when you're dead you don't get a second chance....well not always but for the most part. Color me one of the lucky ones....Nov 4 will be 7 years on borrowed time.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I was out and about during the general elk and deer hunt not wearing orange but I was with a hunter wearing the right amount. I didn't feel threatened at all about getting shot. We did have a couple of guys wearing their pumpkin suits walk in behind us talking loud enough to hear them nearly a half mile away. They never even noticed us until another guy ran down to them and told them to try to be a little quieter. Orange or not they didn't have a clue anyone was around much less the herd of elk they spooked out from their talking.
They seemed to be the kind that would use their rifle scopes to see what that orange object on the hill was.
People in Camo are not that hard to see either. You can pick the out quite often. If you want to hide behind a tree or other object does not matter what you wear you will be harder to see.
I'm more afraid of the drive to and from than I am of getting shot.


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## chuvak (Dec 26, 2014)

I really don't see why it is that big of a deal. 400 inches really isn't that big. A 20" x 20" square total.

One thing that always frustrates me is when people risk their lives for nothing. I hate when people pass going 20 over on a blind hill. The time saved isn't worth risking your life. I think the orange helps a lot. I think it lets people know where you are, so they are less likely to go hike where you are sitting, people will see you are near a deer and hopefully not shoot at it or you. Also, when I'm on a hill and I put my gun down, if I see an orange person come up on the hill where my muzzle is pointing, I move my gun! (Or myself) I think it's one of those things that's not worth risking a life over, even if the odds are small. 

Honestly, 400 inches isn't too much!!


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

LostLouisianian said:


> That's what tombstones are for..."he was rigorous in his defense to be stupid and here he lies because he didn't wear hunter orange". Regardless of who's fault it is when you're dead you don't get a second chance....well not always but for the most part. Color me one of the lucky ones....Nov 4 will be 7 years on borrowed time.


I'd be curious to hear the story Lost. So did orange save your life? Not calling you "stupid" or the like, just interested in the details. Once again, I feel it is a personal choice the same as if a person wants to be involved in activities such as skydiving that some would say is asking for it. Shouldn't we also require orange for the muzzleloader hunt with your rational?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

neverdrawn said:


> I'd be curious to hear the story Lost. So did orange save your life? Not calling you "stupid" or the like, just interested in the details. Once again, I feel it is a personal choice the same as if a person wants to be involved in activities such as skydiving that some would say is asking for it. Shouldn't we also require orange for the muzzleloader hunt with your rational?


Nope I was in an accident and croaked. No pulse, no breathing. 9+ minutes of CPR and I was back to the land of the living.

I have been shot at twice while hunting before we were required to use hunter orange in LA. Both shots were very close and I am talking missed by less than 5 feet both of them. I won't tempt fate again. I personally think as long as there are any firearm hunts going on that you should be required to wear some hunter orange, at least a hat so it is visible 360 degrees. I know most of us on here are very cautious hunters but let's be honest, for everyone on here there's 10 knuckleheads roaming around shooting up the forest hoping to hit anything that has 4 legs and antlers regardless of what's behind it, in front of it or to the side.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

What about the non-hunters? You want a statewide requirement of orange for everyone in the mountains during the elk or deer hunts? Hikers, Mt Bikers, ATV enthusiasts, Photographers, people out taking family / wedding pictures? Cuz I saw a ton of everyone of those types during the rifle hunt this year.

Facts are there are tons of people in the hills whom the orange requirement doesn't apply to, we don't see them getting shot... 


-DallanC


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

When you wear hunter orange you agree to be seen. I was hunting on private property recently that was heavily marked with signs that read "no tresspassing" I carried written documentation verifying that I had the correct permission to be on the property and the orange hat that I wore in Wyoming let the other hunters gawking at all the game in the fields that I was hunting know that I was there hunting and not trying to sneak into the field without being seen. 

I feel the hunter orange provides authorities with some form of identifying law-abiding hunters in contrast with the ones sneaking onto illegal private property. It also enables other hunters to observe illegal activity from a distance as well. If someone is in full camo during the rifle hunt. I automatically suspect illegal activity. 

Trucks that drive around with their license plates missing also indicates illegal activity. 

I see this a lot on private property where individuals have been told to leave and never come back.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

DallanC said:


> What about the non-hunters? You want a statewide requirement of orange for everyone in the mountains during the elk or deer hunts? Hikers, Mt Bikers, ATV enthusiasts, Photographers, people out taking family / wedding pictures? Cuz I saw a ton of everyone of those types during the rifle hunt this year.
> 
> Facts are there are tons of people in the hills whom the orange requirement doesn't apply to, we don't see them getting shot...
> 
> -DallanC


I would be in favor of any public lands where hunting is allowed during any type of firearm season that it is a minimum requirement to wear at least an orange hat. Now granted there would need to be exceptions but for the most part I tend to err on the side of safety...two near misses was two too many. My dad witnessed a friend of his accidentally shot and killed in a hunting accident. When I was 16 one of my neighbors accidentally shot and killed one of his hunting buddies and I had a classmate accidentally shoot and thankfully not kill another hunter. It happens more than you imagine, you just don't often hear about it. I would hate for anyone on here to be injured or killed by an errant gunshot when a simple orange hat would have prevented it. Private land...do as you wish, public land is a right you are given with stipulations by the state or federal government as to the rules you are required to obey to hunt there.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

DallanC said:


> If someone gets shot accidentally, its the fault of the shooter, orange or not on the victim. Shooter is fully responsible for what happens when the bullet leaves the barrel, better make **** sure of your target before you pull that trigger.
> 
> -DallanC


*BLAM* "Dammit, someone shot me _again!_ I'm gonna call the sheriff right now and get him arrested! Hey, don't stop the bleeding, that's what you call evidence!"

Somehow it doesn't seem like it would matter to me whose fault it was when I'm bleeding to death in the cold woods with an hour long hike between me and my vehicle.

Also, deer are color blind. It's a fairly well accepted fact that orange blends better to their eyes than blue or green.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

No orange required in Arizona or Nevada......
They seem to be doing just fine.

In 20 years of guiding, I've never worn more than an orange hat in Utah.

As far as the Utah law gos, never seen or heard of an actual ticket being written.
Now COs love to tell you to wear it----------BUT, they dont write many tickets for it.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

goofy elk said:


> No orange required in Arizona or Nevada......
> They seem to be doing just fine.
> 
> In 20 years of guiding, I've never worn more than an orange hat in Utah.
> ...


Agreed! In all my years of hunting I have never worn an orange hat. Field regulations say you have to have it though. Have had many very friendly conversations with CO's in my red, blue or camo hat with my orange vest on and none of them ever seemed to notice or care. Did know a guy that used to shoe my horses though that said he got checked and wasnt wearing any orange. $450 ticket....OUCH!!


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## HunterGeek (Sep 13, 2007)

Airborne said:


> When I upland hunt in Utah during the general season I wear an orange hat but that's it--I am not required to wear any orange while upland hunting but I throw on the hat just because. I will be hunting chuks this weekend wearing my hat--I'm not afraid of getting shot


It might be worth noting that deer are generally considered to be red-green colorblind, so orange is likely going to look like a neutral gray to them. Birds, on the other hand, are different. They see a full range of color and, unlike humans, seem to see a ways into the ultraviolet wavelengths.

What I'm getting at here is that an orange camo pattern probably looks like dull, nondescript, grayish foliage to a deer. But that chukar you're going after is going to notice that blaze orange hat heading in his direction from a mile away. Whether it registers with them as danger coming, though, I guess is another question.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

While I don't believe orange is totally necessary, the law doesn't bother me either. I'm okay wearing orange. Would probably wear an orange hat on a rifle hunt even if it wasn't required. 

In fact, I did just that this year while helping a buddy on a LE rifle tag. So maybe I do feel like orange is necessary?


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## NevadaMax (Nov 28, 2013)

Hi had a cousin who was hunting up near Strawberry 2 years ago. He works in road paving and thus wears blaze or chartreuse everyday. He wore his blaze hoodie that was faded from weekly wear and he got ticketed because the CO compared my cousins faded and well used jacket to a new blaze vest. Later that hunt, we ran into another group that got ticketed for wearing faded blaze orange hats that had probably seen more deer camps than I. The lesson to be learned is that rules are rules. Don't whine about guys shooting 15 mins late in the marsh, or campers reserving spots past the 14 day deadline, etc and then tromp around the hills IGNORING the blaze orange requirements. I have killed many deer in blue jeans and blaze orange. I wear blaze orange on the muzzy hunt and I have never blown a stalk because of the orange giving me away.
Also, I hunt NV almost every year and there is a BIG difference between # of hunters in the field when comparing Utah to NV. I rarely if ever meet another group of hunters on the hill when in NV. When I think about my time up on Monte Cristo, Cache County, and Panguitch areas, I will gladly put on my orange.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Small ticket I would guess, nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Seen a group of guys get several violations several years in a row including no orange; they don't want anyone to see them as they trespass and keep hunting after filling their tag.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here ya go, 2 years ago.....
Interesting hunter orange comments.....

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/57914-hunter-orange-4.html


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Interesting thing about this thread is sometimes we hunters pick and choose which laws we want to follow. 

How many poaching threads are going on right now? 

If a guy shoots a deer 15 minutes before legal shooting light on opening morning of the deer hunt is he poaching? (happened near my home this year)

He didn't break the law by very much, he could have shot the deer a few minutes later anyway right?????

How many of you on this thread have admitted to breaking Utah's hunter orange law???

I really don't like having to stand in the swamp and watch the waterfowl buzz around my head because shooting hours end 20 minutes before dark, but that doesn't mean it's ok for me to break the law and shoot anyway.

If you don't like the orange law that is your right. It's not your right to break it just because you don't like it.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Truelife said:


> Interesting thing about this thread is sometimes we hunters pick and choose which laws we want to follow.
> 
> How many poaching threads are going on right now?
> 
> ...


This thread has a bunch of different posters on it--go read each post and tell me how many folks directly admitted to breaking the law and not wearing orange while having a general deer/elk tag in their pocket.

You are confusing people who disagree with the law with those who break the law. I think an orange hat should be enough but while hunting deer/elk I wear the orange that the law requires.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestion Airborne, I have read every post and yes most just state an opinion, but there are some that make it very clear what they wear.

I'm not the law and I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble. What I'm saying is that sportsmen (me included) have a lot to say about some things and then turn a blind eye to others.

I feel it's one of the things that creates a weakness within the hunting community. One that hurts us far more than it helps us.

If all this thread is providing is a place for hunters to boob and complain about laws they don't like then we should all think about doing something a little more productive with our time.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Truelife,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The way the Utah law is written,
ANYONE NOT wearing an Orange hat ( even with an orange coat and pants and shoes on )
IS BREAKING THE LAW--------------------------------STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE law needs to CHANGE!


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## flint (Sep 13, 2007)

Hunted elk with a group in the Uintas a few years ago. We took a lunch break and took out hats off because it was warm. A DWR officer stopped to talk with us and wrote us all warnings for not having orange headgear, even though we were at the truck eating lunch and not hunting at the time. He wasn't even nice about it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Truelife said:


> Thanks for the suggestion Airborne, I have read every post and yes most just state an opinion, but there are some that make it very clear what they wear.
> 
> I'm not the law and I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble. What I'm saying is that sportsmen (me included) have a lot to say about some things and then turn a blind eye to others.


I agree that breaking the law is still breaking the law, regardless of the level of the offense. But equating not wearing the proper amount of orange to poaching is akin to saying speeding is like aggravated assault just because they are both against the law. Not every wrong act needs to be viewed with an equal measure of disdain or contempt to still be viewed as wrong.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

flint said:


> Hunted elk with a group in the Uintas a few years ago. We took a lunch break and took out hats off because it was warm. A DWR officer stopped to talk with us and wrote us all warnings for not having orange headgear, even though we were at the truck eating lunch and not hunting at the time. He wasn't even nice about it.


This is just an officer being a DB.
I had an officer pull me over for driving slowly on a public dirt road with private property on both sides. He asked me why I wasn't wearing my "red". I said you mean my orange? He said yes. I said because I wasn't hunting just driving. He got mad and drove off.

If your case was legit what would keep them from ticketing you for taking off your hat to wipe your brow.

Yes I think people that are HUNTING WITH A TAG need to follow the rules but to think everyone outside of city limits needs to wear an orange hat is nonsense. Although Walmart would love it


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Truelife,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The way the Utah law is written,
> ANYONE NOT wearing an Orange hat ( even with an orange coat and pants and shoes on )
> IS BREAKING THE LAW--------------------------------STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> THE law needs to CHANGE!


 Thanks for the laugh goofy, I work with a guy that has bright orange shoes on right now so he came to mind.

I do not disagree one bit that the law it stupid, and yes I know there are varying levels of breaking the law. I know that not wearing orange isn't poaching. But technically it is breaking the law.

I agree with those on this thread who have stated that an orange hat should be enough but I'm not going to lay down on the ground and kick my feet because the law states differently.

I just find it a little funny that some people look at wearing orange like it is a violation of their civil rights or something.

It's not like someone is forcing you to wear a banana hammock only to go out deer hunting. But that's just my opinion. I grew up wearing an orange coat and hat on the rifle deer hunt so it just doesn't bother me that much. I don't even have to remove it to have my picture taken if I'm lucky enough to harvest an animal.

Maybe I'm just weirder than even I thought.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Truelife said:


> Thanks for the laugh goofy, I work with a guy that has bright orange shoes on right now so he came to mind.
> 
> I do not disagree one bit that the law it stupid, and yes I know there are varying levels of breaking the law. I know that not wearing orange isn't poaching. But technically it is breaking the law.
> 
> ...


This is the internet Man!! we all come on here to gripe and complain about some minor injustice that hardly affects any of us. This is what the internet is for--people screaming about nothing because it's entertaining and a bit therapeutic. Where have you been the last 20 years? :grin:


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Truelife said:


> ........ It's not like someone is forcing you to wear a banana hammock only to go out deer hunting.


I could swear this was in the regs? Are you telling me that my blaze orange banana hammock isn't required? I've been doing it wrong I guess.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Airborne said:


> riddle me this you orange supporters--
> 
> ->We have a couple surrounding states that have little to no orange requirements
> ->These states have as many hunters as we do in Utah
> ->Statistically speaking these states do not have any more accidental shooting deaths or injuries than we do here in the beehive state


This is a good question Airborne. I can only speak from my experience.

I grew up in Idaho, hunting where no orange was required. My local school colors were red and white, so we always had red sweatshirts and hats that we would wear, even though we weren't required. It enabled us to find one another in the field. And I liked that as we'd make a hike down opposing ridges, or pushing a draw, or whatever. I never felt it affected safety one way or the other. Hunting big game in Idaho, it is a very different experience than in Utah. There are far more quality habitats, far more spread out, and the seasons are much longer (or used to be). But hunting in Idaho is clearly a different experience than in Utah. And most importantly, the culture of hunting in Idaho is just a different thing all together.

Then my first year hunting in Utah was in '92 - the last year of unlimited deer tag sales. I hunted down near Manti, and I tell you - after the first 10 minutes of shooting light and counting over 100 shots fired within ear shot, I was looking for more orange that I could put on, and was trying to decide if the doors of the jeep were thick enough to stop a stray bullet. No way will I EVER hunt a general hunt in Utah without wearing orange. Utah hunters (I know this is a generalization) are the most dangerous I've ever been around, the most irresponsible, the most rude, the most inconsiderate, with the biggest attitude of entitlement I've ever experienced. And all of that has gotten more intense as getting tags has become more and more difficult. I hunted a dozen years on the general in Utah, and even after the limiting of the tags, I got so dang tires of seeing other guys watching me through their rifle scopes, hearing bullets ricochet, and absolute disregard for any kind of safety or decency. I quit hunting general hunts about a decade ago, and only would go if I was lucky enough to draw a CWMU tag.

This past year I moved to Idaho, and will never hunt in Utah again. Not because Utah doesn't have good hunting, it does. But I don't love hunting enough to let my life end too soon because Utah hunters are irresponsible, unsafe, and crazy.

So back to your question - how do Wyoming and Nevada and Idaho all have fewer hunting related shootings than Utah? It has nothing to do with the orange. It has everything to do with the people holding the rifles and irresponsible behaviors. The hunting culture in Utah is vastly different than in Idaho (I can't speak for Nevada and Wyoming as I've not hunted there). But in my view, because of Utah's hunting culture, orange is an absolute necessity until that culture changes. We love as gun owners to say that guns don't kill people - people do. And that is correct. And the hunting culture in Utah drives an unsafe hunting atmosphere.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is interesting that you say that Utah hunters are unsafe and crazy. I have been hunting in Utah since the 60 and in those 50 some odd years I have never been shot at during the Utah rifle hunt, I did have some boulders come very close to me one year from some kids rolling them down a hill above me. Neither have I had anything stolen from my camp or have my camp shot up even in those years of so many general deer hunting tags. It was crowded, you could see a red shirt on every ridge or hill that you looked at. When I started you had to wear red, hunters orange was unheard of. And yes, every year someone was shot with the excuse being that he looked like a deer. But back then the vast majority of hunters didn't have to pass a hunters safety course. I remember a couple of them, one was a camper that was bending over a campfire getting himself a cup of coffee and another was a person riding a tote goat. They were shot by sorry excuses of people that knew what they were shooting at. These last bunch of years you hardly ever hear of anyone getting shot except for those that miss handle a firearm or don't practice firearm safety when their firearm is loaded. 

As for Idaho, the only place that I was actually shot at and hit was in Idaho during a pheasant hunt. The folks in the next field over didn't even pay any attention to where the group that I was with was walking through the adjacent field. I saw that 12 ga barrel looking straight at me and turned my back to it and lowered my head below my shoulders. My M65 military field jacket still has #6 shot in it from when that so called hunter pulled the trigger. Thankfully none of the pellets penetrated the inner lining of that jacket or else I may of started shooting back at him. 

Also in my first 30 or so years I never did see the waist of meat on the mountain by people using the so called "gutless method" to bring the meat off of the hill. I could care less what they do with it once it gets home but get it off of the mountain. 

You get crazy and careless hunters no matter what state you hunt in. It can be bird hunting or hunting big game. Perhaps Idaho is lucky in that it has fewer hunters in the field than Utah does with a lot larger area for them to hunt in. Even if they had the same amount of hunters that Utah did then they still have a lot more area to hunt considering that Utah is mostly desert where Idaho's 82,000 sq miles is a lot more forested than Utah's 82,000 sq miles


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## mjensen1313 (Jul 29, 2015)

Kwalk3 said:


> I could swear this was in the regs? Are you telling me that my blaze orange banana hammock isn't required? I've been doing it wrong I guess.


You're not going crazy; this reg only applies when hunting during a super blood-moon!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Follow the rules and stop whining.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I like the hunter orange rule for no other reason than it feels so warmly nostalgic and familiar seeing pumpkins all over the hills or leaving or returning to town during the rifle deer opener. Though if given the choice I would probably not wear it.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

I am with Critter. I too have been hunting since the 60's and I too remember every year that there was not just one person shot but some years multiple people shot. In every case, they were not wounded, they were killed. We used to joke and call them "idiot California hunters". 

I went to school with a guy who's father shot and killed another hunter. He never got over the guilt. I had another friend who was shot in the chest while eating lunch on a hillside in an open area. He too died. That was the general deer hunt of the fall of 1974. During the General Season Deer hunt of 1972, I was shot at multiple times one evening above Mantua, Utah. I couldn't get behind the next rise quick enough. 

Generally when a person gets shot with a deer rifle, they die! Back in the 60's there was a huge campaign that required all hunters to take hunters ed and emphasized heavily that hunters were to be sure of their target. We also had at one time close to 300,000 hunters afield. I don't think there are that many people in the entire state of Wyoming or Idaho. No, we seldom shoot and kill each other anymore when hunting, except in our schools and malls and other urban areas. To not want to be seen by others when hunting is absolute foolishness. You are an accident waiting to happen. People get so caught up in shooting at their intended target that they have no idea who is in their line of fire nor do they stop to think where that projectile they just lobbed is going to stop. Shooting people when hunting is not limited to big game hunters. I also had a friend who was shot with a 22 while riding his motorcycle in the west desert by a rabbit hunter. I suppose that when something makes sense and promotes safety, then it is a bad idea. Seems to be the mental attitude of the mentally insane anymore.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Good scopes were a luxury then though... most people used open sites. Now you are hard pressed to find someone who doesn't have a scoped centerfire rifle.

Orange is a good idea... but with the increase in NON-HUNTING recreational people who are in the hills at the same time as us, relying on just the color of a thing to dictate if you shoot or not is stupid.

I wasn't exaggerating when I saw multiple people taking wedding photos near where I hunt on opening day, let alone hikers and general photographers (it really was a beautiful day to be in the canyon).

Its not hard to imagine someday sooner rather than later, that hunters wont be the majority of people in the canyons at any one time.


-DallanC


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

I think there's been some great comments on here. The ones that resonate the most at least to me are those who've known someone involved in a tragic accident. There seemed to be more accidents back in the day.

I remember growing up and hunting with my dad and uncles. It wasn't all that uncommon for hunters back in those days not to carry binoculers. The most common way of glassing anything was using the scope. And where do most people's trigger finger go when they shoulder their weapon? Unless properly trained, it typically goes to the trigger. I'd bet theres a ton of people that have glassed another hunter well within shooting distance using the rifle scope. 

Either way, except for the episode of forensic files that I watched recently, all these accident occur because those hunters were not responsibly following simple rules of safe handling a weapon. When it comes to hunting, its the 4th rule about being sure of your target and aware of it's surroundings that get us now. Not so much in accidents with hunters shooting other hunters, but rather hunters shooting the wrong species. A friend of mine hunting the rifle deer hunt up Monte Cristo found a nice bull dead up the mountain. When he called to report it, the CO told him he still had two elk to check that were shot on the deer hunt, and one moose. I personally think this is more common now than anything. There is nothing that could of prevented the tragedy in Cache County other than a person who was responsible with his weapon. 

As for the orange debate, I don't mind it mostly because I hunt the muzzle load. But, it didn't bother me to wear it while bear and elk hunting a couple weeks ago. It's a stiff fine for not wearing it. And you can't count on every CO to turn a blind eye to it. Everyone is different in the way they handle things. I was ticketed once because I didn't notch my tag perfectly right. Some COs have some discretion, while others might be "by the book." 

I think another reason we see fewer accidents is the coming on of the road hunter. Years ago, there were not many ATVs seen on the mountain, and the only way to get into the hills was by foot. 

My two cents anyways!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm personally more worried about Utahs new program to allow people who have never had hunters safety or any other training, to just grab a rifle and go hunting. I hate it! If people are so lazy they cant be bothered to take a simple hunters safety class, they should not be allowed a big game hunting license.


-DallanC


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Dallen,
I agree with your non hunters ed requirement statement. That is how we overcame the frequent hunting accidents was through education. We also didn't allow 12 year olds to carry a weapon, 16 was the minimum age. However, you are mistaken about scopes not being as common back in the 60's. I knew very few if any that did not use a scope. My first weapon had a 4X Weaver scope. It came standard with the purchase of any Remington ADL or BLD rifle. Redfield was a common brand as well as Tasco and Leopold. What was not too common was the wide spread use of variable scopes, although I had a couple of friends that used them. With people now shooting well beyond the 300 yard range and upward towards 1000 and more, the attitude that we are better educated and more aware of our targets is what is going to take us back to where we were. We were only 15 years or so from the end of WWII back then, just a few years past Korea and in the middle of the Vietnam "police action". There were a lot of well trained men in the field hunting. Their familiarity with guns and ability to handle them safely was extremely high, probably more so than todays average hunter. I gave up gun hunting many years ago and prefer to stick with archery equipment, mostly for safety reasons. Once in a great while I will hunt with a rifle for a specialty hunt. 

We are safer today because of the practices that were implemented by our elders. Now because of the safety we enjoy we want to abandon the very practices that have made us safe? Where is the wisdom in that? When we are young we think we are wise... Wisdom comes through experience and age. Have we learned nothing?


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