# F.O.C. HELP!!!



## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

K- here is the deal. I got a new arrow cutter and jig and all this great stuff. Well I prepped a bunch of old arrows mostly for practice and I wanted to check the FOC on these things. Now I swear I read on here some where that the acceptable range was 7-10%. Is this true and if so and your percentage is much higher like 20 or so, is the easiest solution a longer shaft? I could really use the help. And one last thing maybe some one could please explain the calculation for FOC one more time so it is not just me miscalculating something. Thanks :?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Here you go...everything you need to know about F.O.C. or anything else about arrow construction and tuning. Note that the link is to just one section of the manual.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/2007-Carbo ... guide4.htm


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Good link finnegan. I prefer to keep my foc right around 11.

If you are at 20 you can either go with a lighter broadhead/fieldtip, or add more weight to the back end, or go with a heavier arrow. I like fairly heavy arrows and 125 grain tips myself.


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks guys!!!!


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

K- I think I am on the right track but now to debate how important is FOC? Has anyone seen it make a huge or noticeable difference with their shooting?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

jhunter said:


> K- I think I am on the right track but now to debate how important is FOC? Has anyone seen it make a huge or noticeable difference with their shooting?


FOC means more when shooting broadheads than field tips, but I personally believe FOC is ALWAYS important for stable arrow flight.


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## wileywapati (Sep 9, 2007)

My Bow Ed teaching partner is a dyed in the wool traditional shooter.
I on the other hand had always felt the need for speed. I have since figured out that that ain't necesarily the ticket for me perasonally.

Anywho he always shot zwickey two blades heads out of his long bow. He had a specific set of hunting arrows that were cut a little shorter that his practice arrows. In doing this he could get pretty much exactly the same point of impact with either his hunting set up and target set up. Both sets of arrows were overall the same length and were set up to about 13 or 14% 
F.O.C.

The arrows he shot were heavy as logs and slow. But if ya were to fill a gallon milk jug with sand and shoot it from 20 yards the arrow would zip right through so an observer would think that the shot was a miss. I have always favored the muzzy 4 blade 125 grain heads and these heads would penetrate the sand just about as well, but the jug gave a noticible twitch when hit. My arrow is right at 420 grains and his was closer to 700 grains.

I have shot the same old PSE Durango lite since it was new six or seven years ago.
I shoot about 70 lbs at 27.5 inches of draw I could consistently get about 285 fps out of the rig. I am far from a bow tuning genius and in effect I had learned the hard way that if you 
can get closer to 260 fps with a heavier arrow or backing off on draw weight a tad you will have less issues when it comes to tuning broadheads and overall arrow flight.

So the point of this long winded rant is buy a dozen arrows and cut half for broadheads ( shorter ) and cut the other six a bit longer so that when they are both wearing their chosen tips they are the same length and balance exactly the same. 

Going heavier ( to a point ) is always a good thing. You'll stress your bow less, it will shoot quieter and what you lose in speed you are going to make up in mass momentum. Anything over the 260 fps barrier tuning will become more critical. FOC shoul be between 10 and 15%
good luck


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> Going heavier ( to a point ) is always a good thing. You'll stress your bow less, it will shoot quieter and what you lose in speed you are going to make up in mass momentum. Anything over the* 260 fps* barrier tuning will become more critical. FOC should be between 10 and 15%
> good luck


I agree 100%. I try an keep my fps as close to 260 as possible, I also use a slightly heavier setup, my arrows weigh 435 grains with a 29 inch draw set at 64#. I have NO problems with arrow flight, have a very quite setup, and have had a complete pass through every time I have connected on an animal. I also use Muzzy 125 grain heads, but I prefer the three blade for better penetration.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

In light of the inconsistency of info and opinion out there, I've been experimenting. It's been expensive, but I've come up with two perfect hunting arrows for two different bows even though both bows have identical draw length and weight. What's interesting is that the arrows shoot very differently in the two bows.

Hoyt Vectrix w/Schaeffer drop away:
CE Maxima Pro Hunter w/o weight inserts
2" Blazer fletch
100 grain Muzzy MX-4 broadheads

Browning (PSE) Illusion w/WB:
Gold Tip Pro Hunter
4" helical Duravane fletch
125 grain Wac'em broadheads

If I swap arrows, the Gold Tips porpoise from the Hoyt and the Maximas will not group well from the Browning. I really doubt the minimal difference in IBO speed accounts for this, so go figure. Point is, it all comes down to a simple matter of whether the arrows fly like you want them to, regardless of F.O.C., spine, broadhead or weight. What should be ain't necessarily what is.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I guess if I was shooting 3 bladed 125 grain muzzy broadhead I would really be worried about my FOC. :lol: I have always shot goldtip 55/75 hunters and my FOC has always been in the 'range'. I would worry more about a good flying broadhead then trying to get perfect FOC. :wink:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

north slope said:


> I guess if I was shooting 3 bladed 125 grain muzzy broadhead I would really be worried about my FOC. :lol: I have always shot goldtip 55/75 hunters and my FOC has always been in the 'range'. I would worry more about a good flying broadhead then trying to get perfect FOC. :wink:


Kind of hard to change your FOC when your arrows are only 18" long. :shock: Proper FOC is part of a well-tuned bow setup, just as important as a "good flying broadhead".

Funny little fellar. :lol:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

What's FOC?


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> north slope said:
> 
> 
> > I guess if I was shooting 3 bladed 125 grain muzzy broadhead I would really be worried about my FOC. :lol: I have always shot goldtip 55/75 hunters and my FOC has always been in the 'range'. I would worry more about a good flying broadhead then trying to get perfect FOC. :wink:
> ...


Come on you know my arrows are longer than 18 inches..........You must be confusing me with all your crossbow buddies. :shock: When you shoot your crossbow do you worry about your FOC? I really don't know a lot about crossbows, is that why you use a 125 grain muzzy?  Your really funny for one of those crossbow dudes. Are you a cross dresser too?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

O*-- <<--O/ 


o-||


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

I had to fix my calculation from the other day and my FOC is now(correctly) between 7 and 11 percent. But I like the idea of adding weight and sacraficing some speed. I will have to play around with that alittle. Last I checked I was flippin arrows a little faster than 260 ( more like 310). Thanks for the ideas and the help.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

There are several archers who like the 300+fps and have good luck with it. I prefer a slower, quieter, deeper penetrating arrow myself. A 260 fps arrow is much easier to tune and keep tuned than a 310 fps arrow.

Little folk like north slope and tex try and make up for they're 'short' comings with the bow setups. sloper goes to the fast extreme, tex goes 180 degrees the other way. 8) Both are WRONG! :mrgreen:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> There are several archers who like the 300+fps and have good luck with it. I prefer a slower, quieter, deeper penetrating arrow myself. A 260 fps arrow is much easier to tune and keep tuned than a 310 fps arrow.
> 
> Little folk like north slope and tex try and make up for they're 'short' comings with the bow setups. sloper goes to the fast extreme, tex goes 180 degrees the other way. 8) * Both are WRONG!* :mrgreen:


How so?? Both killed very nice animals this last year.... so something must be working for them. :lol: From what I saw, both shot pretty well at the league shoot also. 8)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

They're still WRONG! :lol: 

Shooting 'well' in the league means what?

What do I know, I haven't killed anything with my bow since 2003, of course I haven't hunted since then. But, we will see how 2008 turns out, since I'll be hunting turkeys/elk/deer, and possibly bear with my bow this year. :mrgreen: <<--O/


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

League means nothing... I just mentioned what I saw.... but the pictures they're in with their trophies say plenty. Not saying you don't know what you're talking about... you're around hunters, hunting equipment and all that all during hunting season but I don't think they're entirely wrong in their belief either.... I guess their results speak for themselves is what I'm getting at. 8)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> League means nothing... I just mentioned what I saw.... but the pictures they're in with their trophies say plenty. Not saying you don't know what you're talking about... you're around hunters, hunting equipment and all that all during hunting season but I don't think they're entirely wrong in their belief either.... I guess their results speak for themselves is what I'm getting at. 8)


You do realize I make fun of these two little fellars because I like them, right? I consider tex a good friend, and if north slope would get over his hatred for Muzzy's we could be friends as well. :? :wink:

I have killed plenty of critters with a bow myself, and I know my way isn't the best, but it is dang close to it. :shock: I have taken two elk that go over 360 with my bow, and three deer that go over 170, with two going over 180. How's that for results? :twisted: :wink:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Riverrat77 said:
> 
> 
> > League means nothing... I just mentioned what I saw.... but the pictures they're in with their trophies say plenty. Not saying you don't know what you're talking about... you're around hunters, hunting equipment and all that all during hunting season but I don't think they're entirely wrong in their belief either.... I guess their results speak for themselves is what I'm getting at. 8)
> ...


Dang good.. in that it gives me something to shoot for. :lol: Of course I realize that... I might feel comfortable poking fun too if I knew em better. I'm with Tex though in asking... what is FOC? And how does Tex adjust FOC when he uses his "knuckle sight" he was telling me about last Friday??


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I won't touch Tex' 'knuckle grip'.

I am guessing FOC means little when you are shooting an 8# shaft 10 yards. :? FOC is front of center, and finnegan put up a link that does a great job of explaining the importance of it in getting a well tuned bow setup.

I have never met north slope, I probably would miss him even if we were in the same room since he is below my line of sight.  That doesn't stop me from talking smack and enjoying getting the same right back. Tex ask for it, he likes the abuse, at least I enjoy it. _(O)_ Keep it up and you'll be part of it! :twisted: :wink:


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

Ya, who needs leagues anyway. Just roll out of the rack the day of the hunts and head down to W-mart, on your way out of town. Pick up a six pack of Natural light and a six pack of muzzy 125's, both white trash and cheap. When you get up to your secret spot at Strawberry screw in your bad to the bone muzzy's and go hunting! The heck with leagues.... :roll: BTW goat roper I turned my bow down, so I am shooting 262fps just like you. -~|-


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

north slope said:


> BTW goat roper I turned my bow down, so I am shooting 262fps just like you. -~|-


Except my shafts are several inches LONGER than yours. _(O)_ Bummer getting the 'short shaft' every time isn't it?


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> north slope said:
> 
> 
> > BTW goat roper I turned my bow down, so I am shooting 262fps just like you. -~|-
> ...


Dang your good.... You were probably one of those zit popping nerds on the debate team! :shock: Wait, please tell me you were not on the debate team................ Ohhh that is too funny.........Pro was a zit popping nerd on the debate team! :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: -*|*- -*|*- -*|*- -*|*- *OOO* -()/- :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: -*|*- -*|*-


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I was known as the "master debater" :shock: of the wrestling team. :roll: Back then I wasn't very smart or quick witted. You see I had a problem, I was SHORT. I got smarter as I got taller. :mrgreen:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I wasn't going to get into the Trol vs. Goatroper battle but I can't resist.

Wait... yes I can. :lol:


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I was known as the "master debater" :shock: of the wrestling team. :roll: Back then I wasn't very smart or quick witted. You see I had a problem, I was SHORT. I got smarter as I got taller. :mrgreen:


Look I really don't want to hear about you and your wrestling 'buddies' and about your bating and such. _/O It is a good thing that I am short, so I don't have to see your ugly, busted-up, bald, egg shaped head! :twisted:


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

I think wrestling is cool... :wink: 

he he he ... _(O)_


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

Not now Zim, I am working here.


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

o-|| :rotfl: o-||


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

north slope said:


> Not now Zim, I am working here.


 :lol: :lol: This is getting hilarious.....


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

north slope said:


> Not now Zim, I am working here.


I think he was too. :shock:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> I think wrestling is cool... :wink:
> 
> he he he ... _(O)_


Zimmy, what we do is call "Rastling" not "Wrestling". You can get hurt when you "wrestle" and you know me, I'm all about feeling good!

-()/>- -()/>- -()/>-


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