# Here's a Utah vs. Fed land test case.



## Cooky

Here's a test case for us to watch.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=29805302&ni...alized-at-first-outdoors-summit&s_cid=queue-3

Anybody know what is planned for the lands in involved in the swap? They mention the newly state-acquired lands are "energy-rich".

.


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## 300 Wby

I have the same question as you Cooky. I don't know but it will be interesting to see how it handled. I will withhold judgement until plans are made public


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## RandomElk16

It says flat out, Utah will develop the land they inherit. We basically just lost 35,000 acres. The land Utah did hold (25K acres) was in Grand Canyon and was of minimal developmental value. The land the Federal Gov held (35K acres) was of developmental value, but wasn't being used for that. It was just being preserved. 

So we had 60,000 acres of preserved land that was content being just that: land.

Now, Utah takes over and develops 35,000 of it. We now have 25,000 acres of land being preserved.



Great article that adds to our discussion in the other thread. Appreciate you posting it! Now I am just sad to see more land going to the dumps...


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## Loke

So before we had 60,000 acres of land that was sitting around doing nothing. Now we have 25,000 acres still sitting around doing nothing, and 35,000 that will be used to fund education for our children. Yup, just more land going to the dumps.....


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## Vanilla

Loke said:


> and 35,000* that will be used to fund education for our children.*


If that were actually true, I might feel differently than I do. However, it is not...so I don't.


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## Cooky

I'm fine with thoughtful development that is for the betterment of the tax-payer owners of the land. I'm not fine with being fenced out for the betterment of a few individuals with friends in the right places.


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## RandomElk16

Loke said:


> So before we had 60,000 acres of land that was sitting around doing nothing. Now we have 25,000 acres still sitting around doing nothing, and 35,000 that will be used to fund education for our children. Yup, just more land going to the dumps.....


Education for our children... ha, that's good...

-We rank #1 in Economic Outlook (http://www.alec.org/wp-content/uploads/RSPS-UT-14.pdf)

-Donation Rank? #1 This is counting the "not required" Church donations... Not going to do it, but the Utah religious culture vs our education ranking makes for a very interesting discussion.

1. Utah

_The Mormon tradition of tithing is a primary reason residents of this state well outpace those in every other place in America. The typical household claimed charitable contributions totaling 10.6 percent of discretionary income. That's nearly 3.5 percentage points ahead of the number for its nearest rival. Utah is also the hands-down winner when it comes to the rate of volunteering. Forty-five percent of its residents volunteered in 2008. (Nebraska, at 40 percent, ranked No. 2.) The state is home to Salt Lake City, which tops the rankings of the 50 biggest metropolitan areas in terms of generosity._

-Richest state rank? #13 (http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/09/19/americas-richest-and-poorest-states/3/)

*-2013 education rank? #38*


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## utahgolf

yep, people in Utah go along with anything as long as they say it's for the children..... meanwhile our politicians and their cronies are the ones who benefit the most... but heaven forbid we ever vote them out or show any sort of independence when it comes to voting behavior.


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## Dahlmer

RandomElk16 said:


> Education for our children... ha, that's good...
> 
> -We rank #1 in Economic Outlook (http://www.alec.org/wp-content/uploads/RSPS-UT-14.pdf)
> 
> -Donation Rank? #1 This is counting the "not required" Church donations... Not going to do it, but the Utah religious culture vs our education ranking makes for a very interesting discussion.
> 
> 1. Utah
> 
> _The Mormon tradition of tithing is a primary reason residents of this state well outpace those in every other place in America. The typical household claimed charitable contributions totaling 10.6 percent of discretionary income. That's nearly 3.5 percentage points ahead of the number for its nearest rival. Utah is also the hands-down winner when it comes to the rate of volunteering. Forty-five percent of its residents volunteered in 2008. (Nebraska, at 40 percent, ranked No. 2.) The state is home to Salt Lake City, which tops the rankings of the 50 biggest metropolitan areas in terms of generosity._
> 
> -Richest state rank? #13 (http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/09/19/americas-richest-and-poorest-states/3/)
> 
> *-2013 education rank? #38*


Utah's poor education ranking is a largely a function of large family size. Our state taxes are not low and a good chunk of that is spent on education.

Utah spends 6.45% of its annual budget on education, while all states combined spend 5.55%

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/compare_state_education_spend


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## RandomElk16

Dahlmer said:


> Utah's poor education ranking is a largely a function of large family size. Our state taxes are not low and a good chunk of that is spent on education.
> 
> Utah spends 6.45% of its annual budget on education, while all states combined spend 5.55%
> 
> http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/compare_state_education_spend


Except for here it is normal to have a large family, and one working adult. Increasing your deductions as well as straining the education system further. Single people with a decent income pay more into the school system then these large families.

But good thing these large families can "donate" a fair amount of income.

A more telling chart might be spending per student? http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html


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## gdog

RandomElk16 said:


> Except for here it is normal to have a large family, and one working adult. Increasing your deductions as well as straining the education system further. Single people with a decent income pay more into the school system then these large families.
> 
> But good thing these large families can "donate" a fair amount of income.
> 
> A more telling chart might be spending per student? http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html


Families should be taxed per kid for education. We all should have some resposibility for educating our future leaders, but if you want 12 kids, then be ready to pay to educate them.


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## Catherder

A statistic more relevant to this discussion, I'd like to see, is how Utah's SITLA compares to other states SITLA's in helping to fund our schools. I don't have anything current, but what I read previously was not favorable to Utah in comparison to its neighbors.


On the surface, I don't know if I have a problem with this swap even though I oppose the "land grab" as intensely as anyone. The Feds will often swap with states and even private entities on occasion. If it helps protect some prime public recreational property that reverts to Federal control and allows for responsible utilization of energy on new state land, I don't see a problem here.

It also has to be noted that this is a far cry from the "land grab" which is the State fruitlessly trying to take over most or all the Federal land in the state. No swapping involved in what is proposed.


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## Huntoholic

Well as they say, if you think it is so bad here feel free to pack up your urchins and move to one of those fine States that spend more, like NY, NJ, Cal etc.


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## massmanute

Don't kid yourselves that Utah would spend money from the development of land on education. If people in Utah were truly interested in educating the children of the state it would not be dead last in the nation in per-student educational funding.

It's nothing more than a public relations campaign based on a bait and switch strategy, engineered by the moneyed interests and their far-right-wing political allies.


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## The Naturalist

Taxes on the extraction industry in Utah is practically non-existent compared to other states. To think this swap would increase funding for education is humorous. What it most likely will do is increase donations from the extraction industry to the Gov. and other politicians in the State.


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## Loke

My understanding is that these lands are School Trust lands. As such, all royalties from mineral extraction, or other leases go to the schools. Leaving them sit unused provides nothing. Wyoming is able to build some very nice schools, and has class sizes in the teens (not thirties) because they actually use their school trust lands and the resources they have. Our trust lands need to be used for the purpose they were set aside for, and that is provide funding. Not just a nice place to look at.


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## gdog

"At a meeting on August 2, 2013, the Utah State Board of Education voted unanimously to seek legislation that would change how the trust fund portion is overseen, moving management from the Utah Treasurer's office to an independent board of financial professionals. The "Fund" in question is the permanent State School Fund, a trust fund set up for public school beneficiaries in the late 1800s. It has grown from $19 million in 1983 to $1.6 billion today from income earned by state trust lands. _*While that's more than a decent increase, it's nothing compared to what it might have been if the Fund had not been raided by the Utah legislature or if it had been managed as well as some states have managed their public school lands*_......"
http://www.publiusonline.com/its-time-to-take-politics-out-of-the-state-lands-trust-fund/

Just one of many articles out there questioning the management of SILTA...


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## Elkoholic8

I see this as a preview of what is going to happen if the state takes control of the federal land in the state. Guys gripe about what the government does with the land, but IF Utah gets to control it, it will be sold. Then the only people who will have access are the land owners. 

Have you heard about hunting leases in other states? Well guess what's next for Utah. Just another cost of hunting. This WILL end your traditional hunting, and take the next big step towards elitist, wealthy, European type hunting. 

I for one hope the Feds maintain control of what they already have. 

Can you imagine cabins or roads up through Red Castle, Mansfield Meadows, and the rest of the Wilderness area of the Uinta's?? FLAT OUT DISGUSTING!! I hope I never see that!!!


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## Loke

Something just hit me on the head. I think it was the sky!!!!!


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## Cooky

I wonder if there are any actual plans in place for the land or just a general idea of it being more desirable than the land that was traded away. I'll bet the info is out there if someone knew how to look. I still think the outcome of this swap will be a good indicator of future behavior... but that outcome may be a long time coming and probably won't make the news.


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## RandomElk16

Huntoholic said:


> Well as they say, if you think it is so bad here feel free to pack up your urchins and move to one of those fine States that spend more, like NY, NJ, Cal etc.


Thats why i choose WHICH school my kids go to. It is unrealistic to pull the line you just did. The state itself can be great while having half a**** leadership in office. They are the ones making mistakes, why should I move?

Glad you are happy with classrooms of 35!


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## massmanute

Trust lands in Wyoming have been mentioned in the conversation here. Let me quote a passage from the document "Wyoming Trust Lands & Education Funding" prepared by the Sonoran Institute/Lincoln Institute of Land Policy Joint Venture and Children’s Land Alliance Supporting Schools (CLASS).

"Monies from school trust assets free 
up state general fund monies for other 
purposes."

In other words, those monies do not actually increase funding to education, but rather allow the state to divert funding that would otherwise have gone toward education.

This is likely what Utah will do with any money it receives on land it might get from the Federal government, i.e. not to increase total funding for education but rather to allow it to divert other monies in the state budget that would otherwise be spent on education.


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## Huntoholic

RandomElk16 said:


> Thats why i choose WHICH school my kids go to. It is unrealistic to pull the line you just did. The state itself can be great while having half a**** leadership in office. They are the ones making mistakes, why should I move?
> 
> Glad you are happy with classrooms of 35!


It is not unrealistic. If our education is so poor and education is so important to you, why would you subject your children to that?

Throwing more money at something does not equate to a better out come.


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## RandomElk16

So you say I should move if I am not happy with the Utah education system?

Rather than push for change? I wonder how many situations that has worked out in? "We can just move over there and things will be fine..."

Right. Or I can continue to vote for different leaders, voice my opinion, and shed light on how terrible of a job our state is doing and cross my fingers that CHANGE occurs vs ACCEPTANCE.


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## Huntoholic

RandomElk16 said:


> So you say I should move if I am not happy with the Utah education system?
> 
> Rather than push for change? I wonder how many situations that has worked out in? "We can just move over there and things will be fine..."
> 
> Right. Or I can continue to vote for different leaders, voice my opinion, and shed light on how terrible of a job our state is doing and cross my fingers that CHANGE occurs vs ACCEPTANCE.


If the education of your children is the most important thing in your life and Utah is not giving you what you want, yep I'm saying move. You don't have time to wait for the change to happen. You were the one comparing Utah to other States and how good it is on the otherside of the fence.

Personally if I thought those other places, in all those fine reports that you posted were that much better, I would move there. But then again I don't blame someones religion or family size as the problem either.


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## RandomElk16

Huntoholic said:


> If the education of your children is the most important thing in your life and Utah is not giving you what you want, yep I'm saying move. You don't have time to wait for the change to happen. *You were the one comparing Utah to other States and how good it is on the otherside of the fence. *
> 
> Personally if I thought those other places, in all those fine reports that you posted were that much better, I would move there. But then again I don't blame someones religion or family size as the problem either.


I didn't bring this up. This was my response to someone saying that Utah will use the profit for education. I was simply, and accurately, showing that they won't.


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## Dahlmer

RandomElk16 said:


> I didn't bring this up. This was my response to someone saying that Utah will use the profit for education. I was simply, and accurately, showing that they won't.


But you did bring religion (twice) into it and with negative conotations. I'm still trying to understand what that has to do with school funding and SITLA.


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## RandomElk16

Dahlmer said:


> But you did bring religion (twice) into it and with negative conotations. I'm still trying to understand what that has to do with school funding and SITLA.


I brought up our states culture, which is based around a religion. Argue with that, but I believe "this is the place" backs that up. I then stated, and sourced, facts about our large families and one working parent, related to tax breaks and also the large amount of donations in our state directly related to that culture. I then cited the huge lack of educational spending.

Call it negative if that is how you perceive it. I just pointed out facts. Not even opinions. All things said can be cited and sourced as mentioned.


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## RandomElk16

And I keep ignoring your SITLA comments because of articles like this:

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/765638231/SITLA-transparency.html?pg=all

In that audit it was found that compared to other states programs, our SITLA administrative compensation was 26% higher. I wrote of SITLA along time ago. If it was working our education spending wouldn't suck. But we just approved something like 250 Million for universities? Which raise tuition every year and pay professors extreme salaries? Why not fund our k12 program?

What is funny is that the private companies with land, and the ones dealing with SITLA properties, generate substantial profit off the land and we sell it or lease well below market value.


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## Huntoholic

RandomElk16 said:


> I brought up our states culture, which is based around a religion. Argue with that, but I believe "this is the place" backs that up. I then stated, and sourced, facts about our large families and one working parent, related to tax breaks and also the large amount of donations in our state directly related to that culture. I then cited the huge lack of educational spending.
> 
> Call it negative if that is how you perceive it. I just pointed out facts. Not even opinions. All things said can be cited and sourced as mentioned.


While our State Culture may have originally been around one religion, it is barely the majority and if you account for inactives it is not the majority.

Family size, High to low, one indivdual difference. 3.01(Utah) to 2.01 (DC). weighted average 2.5

Hugh lack of spending. There again comparing to other States.

Your attempt to lay blame were it does not belong really is pretty disgusting. But that is just my opinion........


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## RandomElk16

Huntoholic said:


> While our State Culture may have originally been around one religion, it is barely the majority and if you account for inactives it is not the majority.
> 
> Family size, High to low, one indivdual difference. 3.01(Utah) to 2.01 (DC). weighted average 2.5
> 
> Hugh lack of spending. There again comparing to other States.
> 
> Your attempt to lay blame were it does not belong really is pretty disgusting. But that is just my opinion........


You argue with every thread lately and really bounce around the facts. Opinions are welcome, but you are mad about the facts I presented not the opinion. What am I suppose to compare our state education spending to? I feel other states, where we are failing, and the national average, which we are below, are pretty solid comparisons. Not only the overall spending but spending per child.

I have a pretty extensive background in taxes and accounting. Maybe you should read up on the child tax credit, as well as other deductible expenses in relation to children before you comment. One individual can have a huge impact. Especially since, in your comparison, (2) would often mean a couple. They receive minimal deductions having no children. In Utah, that (3) adds a child and tons of tax implications into the picture. Also, to have a mean of (1) larger in relation to family size is not as easy as it would seem. It is bigger than you are reading it to be.

Laid blame where it does not belong? I laid the blame on our government leadership. You are diluting the cultural facts that I laid out so you can deter from the point. Disgusting? Hardly.. but, whine and become insecure about simple stats. This is OK, numbers hurt sometimes.

Edit: I would like to be clear to our viewers, I am not even making this a religious discussion and this isn't meant to offend you. Presenting Utah's culture as far as taxes go, especially when it relates directly to educational spending, is an important part of this discussion. It does not make that culture wrong. How our leadership responds to this deficit is wrong. So, just keep in mind this is a discussion based on facts, not bias or opinion. This began with feds vs state and sorry for the detour. I just had to respond to our state leaders using the money for something other than their own agenda.


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## Huntoholic

RandomElk16 said:


> You argue with every thread lately and really bounce around the facts. Opinions are welcome, but you are mad about the facts I presented not the opinion. What am I suppose to compare our state education spending to? I feel other states, where we are failing, and the national average, which we are below, are pretty solid comparisons. Not only the overall spending but spending per child.
> 
> I have a pretty extensive background in taxes and accounting. Maybe you should read up on the child tax credit, as well as other deductible expenses in relation to children before you comment. One individual can have a huge impact. Especially since, in your comparison, (2) would often mean a couple. They receive minimal deductions having no children. In Utah, that (3) adds a child and tons of tax implications into the picture. Also, to have a mean of (1) larger in relation to family size is not as easy as it would seem. It is bigger than you are reading it to be.
> 
> Laid blame where it does not belong? I laid the blame on our government leadership. You are diluting the cultural facts that I laid out so you can deter from the point. Disgusting? Hardly.. but, whine and become insecure about simple stats. This is OK, numbers hurt sometimes.


The cultural facts as you present really have no bearing.

Sorry I'm not mad about your opinion or the facts as you see it. But the facts as you PRESENT them, in my opinion are out of context and do not show a true picture. To compare the dollars spent on education to another State without including the other important factors, does not give a true picture.

Now this is not saying that we do not have room for improvement. We can do better. But to give more money to the education system in Utah with out making sure it hits the class room is just pissing money away. Nothing to do with religion or deductions.


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## RandomElk16

Huntoholic said:


> The cultural facts as you present really have no bearing.
> 
> Sorry I'm not mad about your opinion or the facts as you see it. But the facts as you PRESENT them, in my opinion are out of context and do not show a true picture. To compare the dollars spent on education to another State without including the other important factors, does not give a true picture.
> 
> Now this is not saying that we do not have room for improvement. We can do better. But to give more money to the education system in Utah with out making sure it hits the class room is just pissing money away. Nothing to do with religion or deductions.


Our large classroom numbers and tax deductions don't have bearing on the state's education system?

Ok, let me ask you this: What are the other important factors I am excluding?

I am asking you to really present something backing your stance, a tough one I will admit. Do that rather than try and take away from my position. Arguing that comparing us to other states is silly. We spend less PER STUDENT and less overall. How is per student spending not a great comparison? Are we that much more efficient?

I agree with you, we need to know that the money is making it to the classroom. I think that is a large part of the problem. Administrators and teachers make way more than they claim. Get on Utah's Right and see how much some of the teachers make if you disagree. I am not saying they don't deserve it, but by the time the funnel hits the classroom its pretty small. My kids last school had minimal windows and no AC, lucky we were only their temporarily. That's pretty crazy given our climate.


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## Huntoholic

RandomElk16 said:


> Our large classroom numbers and tax deductions don't have bearing on the state's education system?
> 
> Ok, let me ask you this: What are the other important factors I am excluding?
> 
> I am asking you to really present something backing your stance, a tough one I will admit. Do that rather than try and take away from my position. Arguing that comparing us to other states is silly. We spend less PER STUDENT and less overall. How is per student spending not a great comparison? Are we that much more efficient?
> 
> I agree with you, we need to know that the money is making it to the classroom. I think that is a large part of the problem. Administrators and teachers make way more than they claim. Get on Utah's Right and see how much some of the teachers make if you disagree. I am not saying they don't deserve it, but by the time the funnel hits the classroom its pretty small. My kids last school had minimal windows and no AC, lucky we were only their temporarily. That's pretty crazy given our climate.


Size and deductions, small impact. I don't recall ever having a school class less then 30. I attended 7 schools, 4 States, 1 island, only 1 in Utah. If size is such a big impact why aren't the college classes smaller?

Cost of living, welfare, illegal immigrants, lifestyle, Public vs private schooling dollars, quality of the education, are a few.

NY median income 55246, spend per 18618
UT median income 55869, spend per 6064
SAT: Critical reading, Math, writing
NY: 485, 501, 477
UT: 569, 566, 549

NY spends 3 time what Utah does but yet their scores are not 3 times higher. I bet that NY has far more private schools and I wonder if the dollars for public vs private school are intertwined in the numbers presented. How do the numbers look when comparing upstate vs NY city or private schools vs public?

Just because one state spends more does not mean the education and conditions are that much better. You could not give me enough reason to send my children to a public school in NY city.


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## massmanute

Huntoholic said:


> Just because one state spends more does not mean the education and conditions are that much better...


Hey, good point. Let's apply the same principle to law enforcement and fire protection, and what the heck, why not the defense budget too?

Let's apply it to CEO pay as well, and to top it off maybe even your paycheck too.

By applying that principle We can do it all on the cheap and expect just as good results as we have now.

Just don't apply the principle to my paycheck.


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## The Naturalist

Huntoholic said:


> Size and deductions, small impact. I don't recall ever having a school class less then 30. I attended 7 schools, 4 States, 1 island, only 1 in Utah. If size is such a big impact why aren't the college classes smaller?.


Hey, I'll take 30 students in my science classes any day over the 36-38 I keep getting.
There were quite a few students gone today during 5th and 6th periods do to some AP testing going on. Here is a comment from one of my students just today in a class of about 15 students due to so many out testing. "Wow, I wish all my classes were this size! We could get a lot done"
Even the students recognize problems associated with overcrowding.
I can't speak for the education system in New York as to their SAT scores, but I do know in Utah class size is related to the WPU and where we are last in that area makes it so we can't be first in in test scores, although we do a pretty good job with what we have. There is so much room for improvement!!!


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## Huntoholic

The Naturalist said:


> Hey, I'll take 30 students in my science classes any day over the 36-38 I keep getting.
> There were quite a few students gone today during 5th and 6th periods do to some AP testing going on. Here is a comment from one of my students just today in a class of about 15 students due to so many out testing. "Wow, I wish all my classes were this size! We could get a lot done"
> Even the students recognize problems associated with overcrowding.
> I can't speak for the education system in New York as to their SAT scores, but I do know in Utah class size is related to the WPU and where we are last in that area makes it so we can't be first in in test scores, although we do a pretty good job with what we have. There is so much room for improvement!!!


I'm just curious, but what and how many medium to large cities have an average of 15 students per class in their public education system?

Until the education system in Utah gets a handle on getting the money into the class rooms versus spending it on Admin and fancy building its just flat out hard to support. I'm sorry the money is not endless. I could do with a lot less of some of the services we are taxed for and put that money into education. But more people seem to think those services are important to them. This whole thing started because someone commented about about taking money from this land swap and putting it into education. Yet the majority of the people on this site seem to not want that. You included. So were do you want the money to come from? Good heavens I work till May to pay just my taxes for the year. What more do you guys want?


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## RandomElk16

Again, the school my kids go to does a GREAT job. The last school, not as much but also a noticeable gap in funding as well... I think the system needs more money, that doesn't mean we don't have good teachers.

I just had to point out the fact that the money Utah is going to profit isn't really going into the school system.


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## Loke

Here's a question (or several) for you. What percentage of the annual state budget goes to education? And where do those funds come from? What percentage of a school district's budget comes from the state, and what percentage comes from property taxes levied by the individual district? What percentage of operating capital comes from SITLA, and how are those funds managed? And for what purposes can they be used?


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## RandomElk16

Loke said:


> Here's a question (or several) for you. What percentage of the annual state budget goes to education? And where do those funds come from? What percentage of a school district's budget comes from the state, and what percentage comes from property taxes levied by the individual district? What percentage of operating capital comes from SITLA, and how are those funds managed? And for what purposes can they be used?


I don't know all these. I know that that the report that came out a few years back putting Utah last in spending per student had us 10th in % of budget somewhere around 33%. Utah, however, claims that around 65% goes to public and higher education.

This could all be true. One college course in accounting, your 101 we will say, is all you need to know how distorted reporting these things can be. Where this money REALLY goes, and where in the education system it goes is anyone's guess.


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## RandomElk16

"According to Utah Law, SITLA has the sole mandate to generate maximum profits that provide *about 1% *of the funding for Utah public schools. Because SITLA board members are paid bonuses according to how much money they raise (and not by budget allocation) the organization has zero accountability for its actions to either State government or to Utah citizens."

I work in an industry that has what we call the "vital 1%". I understand that there can be 1% that is as important as 10%; I know, it doesn't sound like it makes sense. However, I don't think this is the case with SITLA. I also think with the lands they control I could make a lot of money!


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## GaryFish

Which is EXACTLY why Utah's school trust fund is a fraction of that of our neighboring states.


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## GaryFish

To your question Loke,
I believe that ALL STATE INCOME tax goes to education. 
Annual SITLA funds amount to about $1,200/student/year
State funds are distributed back to the District as WPU - Weighted Pupil Unit. So one share of the pie for every kid in the District. Seems like this accounts for about 65% of the spending. 
About 25% of most district funding is collected through local property tax levies and obviously vary from district to district based on need.
Most of the property tax levies are used to fund infrastructure for the districts, such as schools and district facilities. 
So functionally, what really hits the classroom - in the way of supplies and personnel costs comes from the State WPU allocations.


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## Catherder

Gdog posted this link earlier in the thread and the excerpt below comes from the conclusion to the article.

http://www.publiusonline.com/its-time-to-take-politics-out-of-the-state-lands-trust-fund/

"In fact, a brief history, accounted in the Task Force report, provides a litany of "trust-violating" proposals in recent years for Fund use 

finance the construction of the Lake Powell Pipeline,
facilitate relocating the prison and developing the current site,
assist with state costs related to the UEP land trust (polygamous) litigation settlements,
build an office building for non-beneficiaries, such as SITLA and the USOE,
*fund litigation against the federal government, and*
*lend funds to the state to offset falling tax revenues.*
 All worthy public projects (*or not*), but none of which are under the purview of the Fund's mission to protect intergenerational equity: "*The trust lands and trust funds must be managed with the single focus of financially supporting public education.""*

_So our genius legislators want to use SITLA funds to pay for defending their patently unconstitutional legislation they pass every year with respect to the "land grab", in addition to dipping into it to cover their basic obligations? Can you see why a lot of folks that know about this are skeptical about SITLAs performance and their stewardship going forward? _


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## RandomElk16

http://money.msn.com/investing/americas-best-states-for-business

Utah #3 for business. The last line is an interesting thing to throw in:

"But large class sizes and small budgets hurt education in the state."


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## massmanute

RandomElk16 said:


> http://money.msn.com/investing/americas-best-states-for-business
> ... The last line is an interesting thing to throw in:
> 
> "But large class sizes and small budgets hurt education in the state."


True. Utah is dead last in the US for per-pupil funding, i.e. behind every one of the other 49 states, as well as behind D.C. in per pupil funding.

In terms of raw outcome statistics, Utah's results are not as bad as the per pupil funding comparison. However, if one then adjusts the outcome statistics for demographic factors Utah public education performs poorly relative to the rest of the nation.

Some folks think this is great, especially the budget cutters among us. I consider it to be substandard.


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