# Predation of Livestock



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Why is it that the taxpayers are paying for lost livestock due to predation by wild animals? Anyone know?

My thought is if the rancher is going to place their livestock in the wild and they lose a couple to predators, should that not just be part of the cost of doing business? Could they not insure their assets against losses like most businesses would do?

Anywhere I can find the reasoning behind this practice? The lady stated in today's wildlife board meeting that we the taxpayer paid $149k to ranchers for losses due to predators so it got me thinking.


----------



## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Was that $149k in one year? If so that is nuts.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is as simple as that the rancher or livestock owner has a contract with the BLM or Forest Service where they can graze their animals on that land. The state owns the coyotes, bear, mountain lions, and what other kind of predator that there is. 

So if the predator kills a piece of livestock then the state is responsible for it. 

Like it or not that is what the rules are and like they say if you don't like the rules do what you can to change them.


----------



## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

here ya are. 149k is pretty much squat. at 2000 to 3000 per cow, that aint many cows. sheep are cheaper, 500 to 1000 bucks each.
*R657-24-2. Definitions.*

(1) Terms used in this rule are defined in Sections 23-13-2 and 23-24-1(1).
(2) In addition:
(a) "Black bear" means Ursus americanus.
(b) "Fair market value" means the average commercial livestock prices from July 1 through June 30, as determined by the Utah Livestock and Auction Reporting Service.
(c) "Injury" means an act by a mountain lion or bear that results in the death of livestock within 30 days of the act or a permanent injury to livestock.
(d) "Livestock" means cattle, sheep, goats, or turkeys.
(e) "Mountain lion" means Felis concolor.
(f) "Eagle" means Haliacctus leucocephalus (bald eagle) and Aquila chrysaetos (golden eagle).
(g) "Wolf" means Canis lupus
*R657-24-3. Notification of Damage - Payment of Damage Claims.*

(1) When livestock are damaged by a mountain lion, bear, wolf or an eagle, the owner may receive compensation in accordance with Section 23-24-1(2).
(2)(a) Notification must be given to the Division within 4 days of the damage.
(b) Notification may be made orally to expedite field investigations, but it must be followed with a draft (unsigned) Livestock Damage Proof of Loss form within 14 days of the conclusion of the field investigation.
(c) Final signed copies of the Livestock Damage Proof of Loss form must be submitted to the mammals program coordinator by June 1 except for damage that occurs between May 15 and June 30 for which the final signed copy of the Livestock Damage Proof of Loss form must be received by June 30.
(3)(a) Claims for damage payments received from July 1 through June 30 are assessed and accepted or denied based on information reported on the Livestock Damage Proof of Loss form.
(b) Claims accepted for damage payments are held until all damage claims for the July 1 through June 30 period have been collected.
(c) If the total amount of the damage claims exceed the appropriated funds for this purpose, damage payments will be prorated for all eligible claims.
(d) Payments for eagle damage claims shall not be made until all accepted mountain lion, bear and wolf claims for a fiscal year have first been paid.
(e) Payments for wolf damage claims will only be made for damage that occurs in areas of the state where wolves are removed from the protection of the Endangered Species Act.
(4)(a) Damage payments will be paid only for confirmed losses and only to livestock producers who have paid the required head tax in accordance with Section 23-24-1(2).
(b) Verification of the payment of head tax will be acquired from the Utah Department of Agriculture.
(5)(a) The division or USDA-APHIS Wildlife Services specialists will document on approved Livestock Damage Proof of Loss forms the type and magnitude of livestock losses experienced by livestock producers.
(b) Where agreement with the type or magnitude of losses is not achieved by a USDA-APHIS Wildlife Services specialists, a division representative shall follow up with an additional field investigation to assess damage claims.


----------



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Critter said:


> It is as simple as that the rancher or livestock owner has a contract with the BLM or Forest Service where they can graze their animals on that land. *The state owns the coyotes, bear, mountain lions, and what other kind of predator that there is*.
> 
> So if the predator kills a piece of livestock then the state is responsible for it.
> 
> Like it or not that is what the rules are and like they say if you don't like the rules do what you can to change them.


I thought it was the responsibility of the DWR to Manage the animal populations, not Own them.

Why then don't they pay for damage to your car if you hit a deer on the road or should I say if the deer hits you?

I totally agree with your last comment about changing the rules.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

KineKilla said:


> I thought it was the responsibility of the DWR to Manage the animal populations, not Own them.
> 
> Why then don't they pay for damage to your car if you hit a deer on the road or should I say if the deer hits you?


Try getting damages to your vehicle when you hit a moo cow from its owner in a area that is designated "open range"


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I want to preface this by first saying ranching and raising livestock especially for a living is tough. I can't imagine depending on it for my entire income and I do feel for the good ranchers who try their hardest and do everything right. My grandpa raised cattle, my dad and I have raised a small herd of cows, and it is enjoyable, but like most small farms just a side hobby. With that said, I'm a taxpayer and a sportsmen. I care about public lands, wildlife, and the future of both of them into the future. The livestock industry is heavily subsidized by our taxpayers and wildlife at every turn. Whether it be the subsidized grazing rates on public lands, subsidized water laws and prices, or the fact our DWR has to pay for their business losses, livestock are paid for in large part by the public. Do I believe we whould be forking out over $100,000 a year on livestock depredation? No, I would much rather see that money used for wildlife and not to further subsidize the livestock industry. It's also ridiculous to see ranchers complain about cut permits and then go on a mountain from north to south and see livestock absolutely everywhere across it, and yet they still complain. This year it especially ate at me with the dry hot summer, elk numbers being brought down because of these whiney asses, with everything dry and burned up and know there's more cows on that unit than elk. Wildlife get the shaft at every corner from the livestock industry and they will continue to as long as sportsmen sit back and take it, and also vote for their traditional candidates. Our state sees wildlife as something little that doesn't matter and livestock as something that should be subsidized by taxpayers and be the biggest priority to keep it profitable... because that's what they believe. Every business should expect losses. Truth be told, the good ole boys who complain all the time don't know how good they really still have it, and should be terrified of it changing if people start finding out how heavily subsidized they are.


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I've been part of the ranching community my whole life and I've never even known about this. I know for certain my family has never received any compensation for predator damages. Hell my wife and I have raised big groups of doggie lambs the last two years that have been absolutely massacred by coyotes to the point I don't even want to do it again. I don't know how easy it would be to report all damages within 4 days since oftentimes you don't find them until they have been dead for quite some time and it would be hard to even prove that it was a predator kill. Shoot, the condors will clean up a whole carcass bones and all so you don't even know one went missing! I just realized that the predation I am talking about is on my family's private land, though, so we wouldn't be eligible for it like guys on BLM or FS land would be.


----------

