# What dog food?



## Nor-tah

Hey sorry so many questions!! I have fed my dog science diet for a long time but recently heard that any dog food with corn as the first ingredient is bad. I was looking at the bag and you guessed it.... corn. What do you guys know about it. Why would it be the number one vet recommended food if its no good? :?


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## Mojo1

Did you check the source of your info that the corn is bad; I'm having a hard time believing all these vets would push the SD f it was bad for dogs.

I feed mine Wal marts Old Roy brand High Performance, and he does fine on it. I don't even know if it has corn in it.

You are going to get a lot of opipions on what's the best feed for dogs; get ready.


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## Nor-tah

Oh and I have been considering this by black gold http://blackgolddogfood.com/cornfree.htm


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## TEX-O-BOB

> Why would it be the number one vet recommended food if its no good?


Because vets get paid and spiffed to push that SH*T on there customers. That's why.

Science Diet is high priced *GARBAGE!*

I switched from Costco food to Black Gold last year and will never stray again. Great product, and even better service from the local rep. John Evans is top notch.


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## 12 Volt Man

Black Gold = Good stuff.


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## Texscala

I currently work in the Pet food industry and corn is something your dog cannot digest. It is a filler used to make you think you are getting more than you paid for. (and yes your Old Roy has corn...lots of it). Vets most definately get large kickbacks from SciDi, and in my opinion vets are doctors for dogs....not nutritionists, those words came straight from a vet who started asking me questions about feed.

Corn means your dog has to eat more of the food to get the nutrients it needs. More food means more poop and with lower grade dog foods it will smell really bad.

There is no right answer f(lots of wrong ones) or what dog food works the best as every dog is different. Look for a food that is free of corn, corn gluten is okay because it is used as an adhesive. 

Here are a couple of brands I like

Nutro- All their stuff is pretty good
Royal Canin- (I feed this)
Pro Plan and Pro Plan selects

I have heard lots of good about Black Gold but do not have any personal experience.

One important thing for me is skin and coat so I look for a food with fish oils or avocado.

Lastly get a food that is made for you dog. If you have a Large breed puppy get a Large breed puppy food for the first 18 months. I recommend educating yourself as much as possible before switching. Find some people who have great looking healthy dogs and ask what they feed. This is one of the big perks of my job.....It also helps that reps try to buy my support by giving me free food whenever they can.


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## Duurty1

i feed my lab nutro and by the way her coat looks and by how little food i have to feed her i will never use anything else. and she has a darn good looking coat too


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## Duurty1

for the first year i fed her iams large breed puppy because it has more fat in it


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## threshershark

*Re: Pro Plan*

I am a big fan of Pro Plan, it has been fantastic for my dogs in all aspects. They stay healthy with shiny coats using much smaller portions than other brands I've tried, and therefore eliminate less. I like that it's readily available at my local pet store (if I travel I know I can get it anywhere) and that I don't have to go through a local rep to get my hands on it.


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## Nasher

Its the outer shell of the corn that is "no good" for your dog and will cause him to run hot, as in “overheating.” Corn is a very nutritional part of an animal’s diet, it has all the amino acids they need, its highly digestible, but it is the outer shell that’s the problem. It’ll cause the dogs' stomach to take vital fluids from other parts of the body, like the kidneys and liver to use in its stomach acid to try to digest the outer shell, which it simply can not do. Avoid all dog food that uses "ground corn”. Corn meal isn’t the same as "ground corn" or "corn gluten”, corn gluten is high in protein but the wrong kind, Corn gluten is used as a filler though and does have the amino acids needed. Corn gluten is also used as a weed control "pre-emergent”, now if your out hunting in zero weather you are probably not seeing the effects of corn in your dogs' diet, but get them out in a warm weather upland hunting situation and it will show.

I also have really great success with Purina Pro Plan "Performance"


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## bwhntr

[quote="TEX-O-BOB]...I switched from Costco food to Black Gold last year and will never stray again. Great product, and even better service from the local rep. John Evans is top notch.[/quote]
+1


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## utfireman

I was a die hard Black Gold fan, until I did some research on it. They use meat-by-product, which most food company's do as well. But they buy it from a meat supplier or auction. Which they do not control what the meatis, or even the quality of the meat. One bag might be horse, pork, beef, or road kill. Plus the filler product is corn. 

I then came upon the Arkat line of food. I can tell you as a exfan of Black Gold. Arkat is a much much better line of food. They use chicken as the meat and rice as the filler. Which dog's digest better. The raise their own chicken's, so the meat is EXACTLY the same in all of their bags. Plus, their food processing plant is also stamp as a human grade plant. Meaning they meet the same standards as plant's who produce food for us human's.

The dog's stool's are nice and hard, and the coat's and energy with the dogs is just awesome. Everyone that I have given sample's to, have loved and switched to the enhance line of Arkat's food.
I would look at the Arkat line of food alot more then I would the Black Gold brand


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## Gumbo

Where can one find Black Gold or Arkat? And what's the cost?


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## Packout

So you guys are saying I shouldn't be feeding Atta Boy?  My dog is too old and in too good of shape to switch now..... As for rendering plants and bi-products, they are safe. In fact much safer than the filler used in some of the highest priced dry dog food.


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## John Evans

Hey Roy if that is your name.. Would you please explain to us what exactly chicken-by product meal is? Enhance's first ingredient is chicken-by product meal.. Also explain to us what rice bran is.. Also I would like to know what your relationship is with Arkat? Are you a dealer, distributor, or are you sponsored by Arkat? You mentioned in a previous post that you called Black Gold and they could not give you answers to your questions about meat meal. All TDN questions are directed to John Allan, the owner of the company. John has been in the feed business for 39 years. He has a plethora of knowlege about dog feed. (He has also won 3 national championships) If he was unable to answer any questions about TDN, he would have put you in contact with one of our 3 nutritionists or one of our 2 full time vets. One or both of these fields would have answered any questions that you might have had. I highly doubt if your statement is true. You had also mentioned that I participate in bird dog events. This is true. While participating at these trials, I have never or will I ever push Black Gold. These events are Purina sponsored and I respect their position and will not infringe on it. Another incorrect statement that you made that is that Arkat raises their own chickens. Arkat's by-product meals are produced by Tyson or Pilgram Pride. I would prefer that we put the internet slander to bed. I think we need to look at the leaders in the industry i.e Iams, Purina. They are not on here bashing each other about their products. They operate with integerity and class, I suggest we do the same. It seems the Arkat crowd operates at a lower level of standards (minus GSP man, you're a class act). I would like all of us to raise the bar up several notches. Maybe if we would spend more time working our dogs, instead of the he said or she said, we would all gain from it.... John Evans


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## Nor-tah

John Evans said:


> Hey Roy if that is your name.. Would you please explain to us what exactly chicken-by product meal is? Enhance first ingredient is chicken-by product meal.. Also explain to us what rice bran is.. Thanks for you time.


Hey John thanks for joining us!! I met you at the ISE and told you about how great our lab has done on the black bag. Youre doing a great job. Hopefully this guy answers soon... It will be nice to hear all the facts on the food from someone who knows.


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## Steve Shaver

Black Gold???????????????????????
Look at http://www.pminutrition.com and check out Exclusive, Good stuff.


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## Ironman

Steve,
I have had other people tell me that exclusive is good stuff too, and the info on the website corroborates it. Tell me more about the size of bag and cost If you would as I can't find any mention of either. 
Thanks!


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## Steve Shaver

Ironman said:


> Steve,
> I have had other people tell me that exclusive is good stuff too, and the info on the website corroborates it. Tell me more about the size of bag and cost If you would as I can't find any mention of either.
> Thanks!


37.5 pound bags. Regular adult is $28 and change performance is $31 and change Every 6th bag you get a free one so it turns out to be 24 to 26 a bag.


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## bwhntr

Great post John! It is about time someone came on here with some facts. John does not and will not push his feed at any event he isn't sponsering. He is a real professional and classy businessman. If I remember correct Arkat has been around just as long as BG, in fact they were distributed by Nutrena out of Odgen. Maybe Arkat is good feed, maybe not. I do know my dogs perform extremely well on BG, look like a million bucks, and ANY time I need customer service John bends over backwards...Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Why would I ever change?

What I can't stand is a salesman trying to sale me a product by telling me what is wrong with everybody else...sale me the product be telling me about YOUR product!!!


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## utfireman

First off John my name is Ray, not Roy. And I have nothing to hide, infact my number is 801-427-5179. Your welcome to use it if you want. Infact you have used it once before when I contacted you a couple of years ago, but I didn't have such the "great" service that others have talked about on here.

As far as my deal with Arkat, I am a guy who feeds it. That's it, I do help a guy out in the Tooele area and tell people about it. And help him sell it, but I am not set up as a dealer for Arkat. 

Also Arkat is not using chicken-by-product anymore. They have switched to chicken meal throughout their entire line of feed. As far as your defintions of feed, here you go.

Chickern meal: chicken which has been ground or otherwise reduced in particle size. 

Chicken-by-product: consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice. 

Meat meal: the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. 

In your series of food, it ranges from corn meal, meat meal, chicken meal, and chicken-by-product. So I guess if we start bashing meat product's then we are just going to spin in circles since both company's use one form or the other. 

But when I did call, (which by the way I love being called a liar) the lady I talked to had no answers for me about the consistency of the meat meal. She took down my name and number and said she would have someone call me but that never happened.

After having just been belittled by one of those with "standards", I will close with just a few things. First off, if the food is working for you then great, keep using it. But it didn't work for me and many many others that I know. Since I have switched, my dog's have never performed better, had more energy, and had more solid crap. I am sold on it, and everyone that I know who has tried it has also had the same results as I have. 

I might have come off on this post as being ****y, yet so have many of your "followers". Myself and many others get excited when it comes to things that involve a sport/passion that we all love. If I offended you or anyone else then I am sorry. But I am going to say what I feel. Hate it or love it, but you will at least know how I feel and that I am HONEST about it. 

The biggest deal for me is this, I can get Arkat feed that has what I want to feed, like chicken which has less ash, Omega 3 and 6 acids, Glucosamine, and Chondroitin. And I can get it at a cheaper price then Black Gold. Plus the plant is AIB certified, which means the food produced there is safe enough for human consumtion. 

I have alot of time and money invested in my dog's, and I want to give them the best that I can, and Black Gold was not the choice for me. I gave it an honest chance for a long time but I was not happy with the results.

I will sign off now and say good luck to what ever people want to feed, and I will now take my mullet, and my low class and head back to my corner in the trailer park.


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## herf916

ok so now that ive read everybodys opinions on black gold and enhance whats the price difference in a 40 or 50 lbs bag? and also with the enhance hunters edge food is there a better enhance line you would prefer over the hunters edge just curious, i have a very expensive chocolate lab and i am curious which food for a outside dog and hunting fool would best suit him and help his coat and performance at the same time?


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## Nor-tah

Black gold is 20 bucks for a bag. Not sure the weight, just a regular sizes dog food bag. Like I keep saying, I'm very happy with it.


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## TAK

herf916 said:


> ok so now that ive read everybodys opinions on black gold and enhance whats the price difference in a 40 or 50 lbs bag? and also with the enhance hunters edge food is there a better enhance line you would prefer over the hunters edge just curious, i have a very expensive chocolate lab and i am curious which food for a outside dog and hunting fool would best suit him and help his coat and performance at the same time?


In the black gold you are looking around $20 for a 50lb bag of black... Price goes up around a buck for the red and the blue bags.
I use the red and the blue bag the most, I get all the performance one can ask for, they look good and eat it.


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## Nor-tah

I agree, I feed the black during the season and the blue bag the rest of the year.


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## MRJ

Give the Costco "Kirkland" brand a look. No corn and tons of all the good stuff. Mr. J.


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## Donttreadonme

herf916 said:


> ok so now that ive read everybodys opinions on black gold and enhance whats the price difference in a 40 or 50 lbs bag? and also with the enhance hunters edge food is there a better enhance line you would prefer over the hunters edge just curious, i have a very expensive chocolate lab and i am curious which food for a outside dog and hunting fool would best suit him and help his coat and performance at the same time?


In Cache Valley BG is $26-28/40lb. (it may be 50# but I thought it was 40# bag.) Enhance Hunters Edge is $25 and Endurance is $28 for 40lbs. I like the endurance formula myself for the little higher fat/protien content.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

I feed both of my dogs Black Gold in the black bag all year long. They do great on it. I tried Hunter's Edge and after 2 bags I went right back to BG because of the squirts my Lab couldn't shake. He was back to healthy in 1 day. The VF complete looks like good stuff, but it costs more than I can afford to pay.


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## caddis8

I was using Maximum Nutrition from Wal-Mart. Out here it is actually difficult to find quality food. I have looked at a lot of food because I have to work to find good food. I recently switched to Exclusive this past weekend. So far, I am very pleased with the results. The dog has done well. Her energy is very good. It seems that her coat is a bit shinier. I am pleased with the waste. There isn't much of it. 

I've been looking at finding more information on Flint River Ranch feed. I had a breeder offer to give me a sample but I haven't seen her again. 

You guys should count yourself lucky to have choice and competition for good food.


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