# Jazz playing for playoffs



## #1DEER 1-I

It's been a while since the Jazz have made the playoffs. Tonight Derom Williams will be back in Salt Lake with the Mavericks for a game that will help decide if the Jazz make the playoffs. Hopefully Deron gets the exit from our arena he deserves and the Jazz can get back into the playoffs even if it does mean a quick first round exit at the hands of the Warriors it would be nice to see them back in. The. The Jazz will play there final game in LA against the Lakers which will end Kobes career. I wouldn't feel bad if the Jazz gave Kobe a blowout game at the exit of his career after all the grief he gave us over the years. To be honest, I feel better about the Dallas game than the LA game, there will be a lot of emotions surrounding Kobes last game.


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## GaryFish

Jazz getting the 8th spot is the last thing you should want as a fan. First round sweep to the 1 seed, and no chance in the lottery of making the team better. And Utah being Utah, if you can't draft high, you certainly aren't getting top shelf talent through free agency. So sure, it may be fun for 10 minutes to say they made the play-offs, but it just locks them into another year of .500 ball, if that.


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## MuscleWhitefish

GaryFish said:


> Jazz getting the 8th spot is the last thing you should want as a fan. First round sweep to the 1 seed, and no chance in the lottery of making the team better. And Utah being Utah, if you can't draft high, you certainly aren't getting top shelf talent through free agency. So sure, it may be fun for 10 minutes to say they made the play-offs, but it just locks them into another year of .500 ball, if that.


I will disagree. The playoffs are always a good thing. This team is young and talented and needs the experience.

Another draft pick, will not do a lot.

Getting solid bench players in Free Agency to supplement the good core is obtainable in the offseason.

Utah is a more attractive place if the Jazz make the playoffs and who knows they may steal a game from GS. They have played them tough this year, especially in the 801.


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## HighNDry

Well, they are out of the playoffs yet again. Now the talk is about trading players and paying higher salaries and blah, blah, blah.

Quinn says the team is young and inexperienced. Just wait for 4 to 6 years. And then what?

Utah fans booing D-will last night was stupid. All it did was ignite him to burn you. 
Hayward and his GQ image isn't going to produce a championship in Utah. Be happy you have a franchise albeit mediocre at best.


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## #1DEER 1-I

HighNDry said:


> Well, they are out of the playoffs yet again. Now the talk is about trading players and paying higher salaries and blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Quinn says the team is young and inexperienced. Just wait for 4 to 6 years. And then what?
> 
> Utah fans booing D-will last night was stupid. All it did was ignite him to burn you.
> Hayward and his GQ image isn't going to produce a championship in Utah. Be happy you have a franchise albeit mediocre at best.


Locke said D-will takes it very personal and is pissed that Jazz fans never gave him thanks for his time here. He respects the organization and Jerry Sloan but is very offended by being booed here and takes it personally. He wanted to stick it to the fans and he did last night in the first half with 18 points and looked like the D-Will of his Utah days. I give him credit. Deron had an attitude problem but he held the Jazz on his shoulders while he was here, and gave fans some great years. He still has a house here and was a big part of the organization during his time here. I agree, he doesn't need to be booed. I think the Jazz are making strides to be good again, and will be decent next year. The Jazz are great to have in the state and I hope the Jazz have a good future in Utah.


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## Catherder

I still see some potential in this roster, but there is little doubt that they choked in the last week. They only needed one win out of the last 3 home games and lost them all. Losing to the Clippers B team was the worst. Kind of a bummer.


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## GaryFish

D-Will was a total D-Bag when he was in Utah. Heck of a player, but enough of a D-Bag, that he got Sloan to quit mid season. Let that one sink in just a little bit. Sloan had nothing left to prove in Utah, or in his hall of fame career. And D-Will has been mediocre at best on the 14 other teams he's bounced around to since he left Utah. Sloan made him better than he was, and he was enough of a D-Bag that Sloan decided he'd had enough. He should be boo'd. 

The Jazz found lightening in a bottle twice in a row when Layden was evaluating talent, and they've been a bust in the draft since, under Miller ownership. Heck, BYU has a better shot a national title in football than the Jazz do at an NBA title. Which is to say, no shot. But that is O.K. Utah is no different than Denver, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Memphis, Portland, Charlotte, Orlando, New Orleanes, etc.... But there has to be some kind of middle of the ground franchises to fill up the schedules. That is the Jazz. And that is OK. That is sports entertainment. Year in, year out, the Jazz will win 40 games, +- 5, and fans can get excited about the constant rebuilding with talent that almost is, and battling teams for that 8th spot, while the promotions department will continue to sell tickets to see opponents instead of the home team. Yep. Being a Jazz fan is pretty much the exact same thing as being a BYU fan. Except the best opponents will be road games, while even crappier opponents for home games. So, yea. Go Jazz.


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## Dunkem

Not much of a Jazz fan anymore, but watched them fall to the Black Mamba last night. Not a Kobe fan either, but he left a mark last night. Nuff said.


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## 2full

That was pretty pathetic last night.
I'm ashamed to admit I was a Jazz fan.............

Hope they got something good in return for the laydown !!!!


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## Critter

Just look at it this way, they got a better draft choice out of the deal rather than going out in the first round of the playoffs if they would of gotten in.


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## CPAjeff

Last night was quite the night for basketball - with the Warriors winning #73 and Kobe hammering out 60, pretty amazing in both cases!


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## PBH

that game last night reminded me of another event that took place in Staples center 11 years ago.

It was WrestleMania 21, and Hulk Hogan showed up to save the day to the delight of the L.A. crowd.



I can't hardly stand the NBA any more.
Maybe it's time to start watching WWE again? John Cena, Kane, Booker T, Undertaker....

.....LeBron, Griffin, Carmelo, Boogie...

Jahlil Okafor beating up fans, Derek Fisher and Matt Barnes feuding over a woman, leaked videos of players discussing the different women they've slept with, players firing coaches, and Kobe scoring 60 after taking 50 shots!

You can't make this stuff up.....errrrr....wait a minute....I actually think you can.


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## LostLouisianian

Man those zebra's let the Lakers get away with assault and murder last night...that was hilarious that they weren't calling fouls against the Lakers in the last 5 minutes. Also the Jazz could have really played hard defense if they wanted and won. I suspect the Jazz were just as happy not to win.


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## Catherder

A few "closing" comments on the jazz. :sad:

1.


Critter said:


> Just look at it this way, they got a better draft choice out of the deal rather than going out in the first round of the playoffs if they would of gotten in.


Unless, they get monumentally lucky in the lottery, the jazz move up by only one spot by not making the playoffs. Not really much of a tradeoff. I would of rather see them get swept by the Warriors or Spurs and at least get the experience and enjoy a couple more games.

2. RE"that game last night reminded me of another event that took place in Staples center 11 years ago.

It was WrestleMania 21, and Hulk Hogan showed up to save the day to the delight of the L.A. crowd."

Once Rockets predictably dispatched the queens in Houston, the jazz game basically turned into an exhibition/event. The jazz had nothing to play hard for and did the league a solid by being the patsy for Kobe. Maybe commissioner Silver can see to it that the lottery goes the jazz way next month. ;-) Thinking last night in LA was anything else is silly IMO.

3. Some pundits on the "company sports radio station" will spin it positively and rant about the injuries, but this season for the jazz does have to go down as a significant disappointment. No other way about it. If they don't do better next year, it is time to consider another direction. Hayward becoming a free agent next season may force that different direction anyway. It may not be as big of loss as it would appear if he leaves.

4. I thought the league as a whole, with both the Warriors and Spurs being epically good, was overall quite good (and entertaining) during the regular season and look forward to the playoffs.

5. And lastly, please jazz, consider replacing Bolerjack. ray2:


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## HighNDry

For all the people who say the Jazz had nothing to play for, you miss the point of playing. You always play to win. To throw a game so a superstar can ride out on his white horse is not right. Kobe was going to get the points because his team was going to give him almost every shot--BUT, the Jazz should be playing to win. The Jazz are playing for nothing about mid way through most seasons so do they just let the best players on each team have a heyday?

It is embarrassing to think that the Jazz would throw a game just to improve chances at a draft pick. That says a lot about the confidence the players have in themselves and the organizations faith in the current roster. Lets continue to rebuild every year. Can't wait until Stephen Curry plays the Jazz next year. Maybe the Jazz can let him break Kobe's record of attempts and points.


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## wyoming2utah

2full said:


> That was pretty pathetic last night.
> I'm ashamed to admit I was a Jazz fan.............
> 
> Hope they got something good in return for the laydown !!!!


Pathetic just to be a Jazz fan? How about an NBA fan? That game was decidedly an attempt to allow Kobe a huge exit that it made me want to puke! I mean, seriously, the guy attempted what 50 shots? His teammates were totally content with giving him as many shots as possible and the Laker coaching staff was too whether they won or lost! As for the Jazz, what kind of adjustments did they make to stop him from scoring 60? Heck, everyone in the gym and on tv knew he was going to shoot every time down the floor. Sorry, but that game bore no resemblance to an actual basketball competition!

I coach high school girls basketball and have coached basketball in numerous capacities for a number of years...in those years, I have yet to see a less competitive atmosphere than what I saw last night in that Jazz game. I would liken the competitive atmosphere in that "game" to what you see in the annual all-star game. To me, it was pathetic and the NBA should be ashamed.


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## PBH

Catherder said:


> Thinking last night in LA was anything else is silly IMO.


Which is exactly what is wrong with the NBA today. That's why I compared it to WrestleMania. the NBA is no longer about competition. It's about media and superstars and celebrity status. Wins/losses hardly matter as long as the stadium fills.

consider, the 17 win Lakers were filling $7,000 (more?) seats!



Catherder said:


> 5. And lastly, please jazz, consider replacing Bolerjack. ray2:


Can I get an: AMEN!!


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## GaryFish

Boler. Used to like him, like 20 years ago. But his style of just asking himself questions and then answering them is just annoying. 
So will the Jazz get rid of Boler? No. Probably not. But should they? Well of course they should. But who doesn't like those dimples? The dimples disappeared behind the wrinkles 20 years ago. But answer me this - is he less annoying than Locke? Probably not. Is it possible to be more annoying than Locke? Not in the least. Then again, I'm sure that Locke has some kind of spreadsheet that measures the Boler Annoying Quotient into an annoying per 100 possessions number, that can show that broadcasts WITH Boler are 2.5 A/100/POS better than without Boler. And it was the thought of this kind of replacement that pickled Hot Rod's liver. You've gottaloveitbaby. R.I.P. Hot Rod.


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## GaryFish

wyoming2utah said:


> Pathetic just to be a Jazz fan? How about an NBA fan? That game was decidedly an attempt to allow Kobe a huge exit that it made me want to puke! I mean, seriously, the guy attempted what 50 shots? His teammates were totally content with giving him as many shots as possible and the Laker coaching staff was too whether they won or lost! As for the Jazz, what kind of adjustments did they make to stop him from scoring 60? Heck, everyone in the gym and on tv knew he was going to shoot every time down the floor. Sorry, but that game bore no resemblance to an actual basketball competition!
> 
> I coach high school girls basketball and have coached basketball in numerous capacities for a number of years...in those years, I have yet to see a less competitive atmosphere than what I saw last night in that Jazz game. I would liken the competitive atmosphere in that "game" to what you see in the annual all-star game. To me, it was pathetic and the NBA should be ashamed.


I don't disagree that it wasn't a basketball game. But it didn't need to be. Both teams were out of the play-offs already. The outcome had no bearing on anything else. So let it be one last show case for Kobe. I've never been a big Kobe fan, but I respect his hoops abilities. If the Lakers and the Association want to give him a 60 point send off, to the guy that has been the most important player on the most important franchise in the NBA for 20 years, then let it be a Kobe show. That is what people were paying $2,500/seat to sit in the top row, to see. It didn't hurt anything.

Now, that said, I'd have a different opinion if the game actually had play-off implications for either team. Then it better be a competitive and compelling game. But as it was, then let Kobe take 50 shots and have one last hurrah.


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## #1DEER 1-I

I don't know why everyone wants Boler gone, I don't mind his announcing, he's a hell of a lot better than Steve Brown announcing or interviews. Lockes voice isn't my favorite but he is a true fanatic of the sport and team and puts a ton of work into what he does. He announces games, does radio, interviews, stats, a daily podcast, and eats, sleeps, and breaths Jazz basketball so give the guy some credit for the work he puts in to the franchise at his capacity. Can't get past Hot Rod, you probably can't get over Stockton or Malone either. Jazz fans were spoiled for years with players, announcers, and a coach that come around once in a lifetime. Embrace change, the past isn't coming back.

As for last nights game. Kobe was basketball for two decades. Despite my hate for him at times he was one of, if not the best individual player that has ever played the game. So in a game that meant nothing to the Jazz and was the final game of a player that has meant so much to the NBA and basketball, I'm okay with 50 shots, 60 points, and a Jazz loss. Kobe was one of the most driven players the game will ever see, and the exit isn't an embark embarrassment to the Jazz or the league. Was it a real basketball game with a competitive nature? No, but it was the end of an era, and it's what we all expected. 

The Jazz are a good franchise, and only 1 team wins the title every year. Championships shouldn't be the measure of a great athlete, team, or organization. If the Jazz can compete and work to be better, I'm happy with that. Losing their starting point guard for the entire season, their starting center and power forward for 43 games, their starting shooting guard for the last half of the season, and other injuries along the way, having the youngest team in the league, and losing 25 games within 5 points.....40 wins is hardly embarrassing or under achieving. Can't wait for next year.


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## GaryFish

That is where I would differ with you #1I. The Jazz are not a good franchise. They are a family franchise fixated on not hurting the feelings of people they hire, but can't do their jobs. They have passed on so much talent in the draft, they should be ashamed of themselves. And the talent they HAVE chosen, they couldn't develop. The individuals that built the franchise - Layden, Sloan, Stockton and Malone, - all were hired/drafted before the Millers took over. But then again, if Millers hadn't taken over, there wouldn't be a team in Utah at all, so I guess there is that. But once the Millers had the keys to the car, they were incapable of identifying and developing talent. They rode on the backs of Stockton and Malone for 20 years, and it has been almost 20 since they've been gone. And outside the one nice run with D-Will and Boozer, they have been pathetic. How many top 5 picks have they had that "just need a few more years to develop" but never did? How many foreign players did they draft that decided they'd rather just play in Europe? Look around the league. The Jazz are the same as Orlando, Milwaukee, Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, New Orleans, and Minnesota. At least they aren't the dumpster fire that Phoenix and Philadelphia have turned into. But to say they are a good franchise would imply a comparison to the rest of the Association. And ignores that they are just a middle of the pack team, and will always be that until there is a major overhaul in who/how/what they do to identify and develop new talent.


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## Dunkem

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I don't know why everyone wants Boler gone, I don't mind his announcing, he's a hell of a lot better than Steve Brown announcing or interviews. Lockes voice isn't my favorite but he is a true fanatic of the sport and team and puts a ton of work into what he does. He announces games, does radio, interviews, stats, a daily podcast, and eats, sleeps, and breaths Jazz basketball so give the guy some credit for the work he puts in to the franchise at his capacity. Can't get past Hot Rod, you probably can't get over Stockton or Malone either. Jazz fans were spoiled for years with players, announcers, and a coach that come around once in a lifetime. Embrace change, the past isn't coming back.
> 
> As for last nights game. Kobe was basketball for two decades. Despite my hate for him at times he was one of, if not the best individual player that has ever played the game. So in a game that meant nothing to the Jazz and was the final game of a player that has meant so much to the NBA and basketball, I'm okay with 50 shots, 60 points, and a Jazz loss. Kobe was one of the most driven players the game will ever see, and the exit isn't an embark embarrassment to the Jazz or the league. Was it a real basketball game with a competitive nature? No, but it was the end of an era, and it's what we all expected.
> 
> The Jazz are a good franchise, and only 1 team wins the title every year. Championships shouldn't be the measure of a great athlete, team, or organization. If the Jazz can compete and work to be better, I'm happy with that. Losing their starting point guard for the entire season, their starting center and power forward for 43 games, their starting shooting guard for the last half of the season, and other injuries along the way, having the youngest team in the league, and losing 25 games within 5 points.....40 wins is hardly embarrassing or under achieving. Can't wait for next year.


ahh 1-I can't get past Hot Rod? Maybe not, look at the replacement:shock: As for Stockton and Malone? Well John was one of the best to play the game (IMHO). Malone? Take him or leave him,he always chocked at crucial times. As far as Kobe being the best? Lord look at the past Wilt, Bird, Havlechek, Jordon, Duncan, man there are many I would put above him. Again just my opinion.


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## Catherder

GaryFish said:


> Boler. Used to like him, like 20 years ago. But his style of just asking himself questions and then answering them is just annoying.
> So will the Jazz get rid of Boler? No. Probably not. But should they? Well of course they should. But who doesn't like those dimples? The dimples disappeared behind the wrinkles 20 years ago. But answer me this - is he less annoying than Locke? Probably not. Is it possible to be more annoying than Locke? Not in the least. Then again, I'm sure that Locke has some kind of spreadsheet that measures the Boler Annoying Quotient into an annoying per 100 possessions number, that can show that broadcasts WITH Boler are 2.5 A/100/POS better than without Boler. And it was the thought of this kind of replacement that pickled Hot Rod's liver. You've gottaloveitbaby. R.I.P. Hot Rod.


It's funny, I used to dislike Locke a great deal, but he has somehow grown on me and I don't mind listening to his broadcasts, especially if Booner is with him to balance things out. I also appreciate that, unlike the rest of the "company men" on 1280, he will come out and say when the Jazz are genuinely bad, as well as good.

As for Boler, the opposite effect is seen. He seems to irritate more every season. I used to like Harpring a lot and even his act seems to be tiring. Please, buy the man some Chick-fil-a. I suppose it could be worse, Wrubell could be picked to replace him. ;-)

Oh, for the times of Hot Rod, Paul James, and Bill Marcroft.


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## Critter

In my opinion the whole purpose of owning a professional team is to take that team to the championship. The way that I see it the Utah Jazz and the Colorado Rockies have a lot in common, idiots running the front office. There are not very many teams out there that would of kept a coach that just wants to coach a team to a 500 season year after year after year. 

Perhaps this is why I don't follow professional basketball, football, hockey, or any sport anymore. If it isn't the players with their me, me attitude it is the owners that don't know what they are doing.


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## GaryFish

Locke certainly does his homework. No doubt about that. Thing is, he does too much homework. I don't need to know the points per possession on Thursday nights, on the second night of a back to back, in an arena in the central time zone when there is a new moon, and Hayword had spaghetti for dinner. It really doesn't matter. I like Locke on the radio and clearly he brings some insight to the game. But thing with his spreadsheets and obscure stats - is you can find obscure stats to show anything you want, and he does that. And when it comes to it, he hides behind all that crap to try to show that the Jazz are a good franchise, especially in home games, when the opponent comes in with a losing record, on the 3rd road game in 5 days, and it is buy one chimichanga get one free at Blue Iguana after the game if the Jazz hold their opponents under 100 points. (Offer valid only with game ticket stub and within 3 days of the game, excluding weekends and holidays.) But he over does it with all that stuff. And I simply cannot take his squeaky voice for 90 minutes. I loved Hot Rod in his prime, but the last 4-5 years he did the broadcasts, he'd lost it. He was just grumpy old guy.


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## CPAjeff

Interesting article on the max cap for 2016-2017.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analys...Available-2016-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams

I am not a genius, but with Utah being tied for 1st place with the most amount of guaranteed contracts - 11, its looking like another "fighting for 8th place in the West" type of year. The problem that all these guaranteed contracts cause is that it only leaves them $31.89 M (dead center in the league) available for free agents, etc. In all reality, who wants to come to Utah, play for a subpar organization, live in a city with practically zero nightlife, and not really make any money in the process??

I know that the Jazz will have more money available when the current contracts expire, but they will probably go overseas and pick up a bunch of players that will never evolve into anything.


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## wyoming2utah

GaryFish said:


> I don't disagree that it wasn't a basketball game. But it didn't need to be. Both teams were out of the play-offs already. The outcome had no bearing on anything else. So let it be one last show case for Kobe. I've never been a big Kobe fan, but I respect his hoops abilities. If the Lakers and the Association want to give him a 60 point send off, to the guy that has been the most important player on the most important franchise in the NBA for 20 years, then let it be a Kobe show. That is what people were paying $2,500/seat to sit in the top row, to see. It didn't hurt anything.


yeah...too hell with the integrity of the game and the statistics that goes with it. By those standards, we should have been letting Jeter hit from second base to see how many home runs he could accumulate...or, pitching to him underhanded. Heck, maybe Peyton should play one more year and we could see how many TDs he could throw against teams out of the playoffs by guarding the wideouts with dlinemen!

I am sorry, but when the competition is substituted for entertainment, the sports fan loses. IF the game isn't about winning or losing regardless of playoff implications, then why play the game? You see, that is the difference with the game today and not so long ago. I guarantee you that Jordan's, or Bird's, or Magic's, or Jabbar's last game was not made out to be about how many points he could score or how many shots he could put up. Afterall, isn't that why we have an all-star game?


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## PBH

Catherder said:


> Oh, for the times of Hot Rod, Paul James, and Bill Marcroft.


Paul Jame?? Seriously?

"...steps, FIRES!".

"...NEARLY picked off!"

James was as bad as Boler with garbage cliches.
The problem with both is that the _viewers_ are able to see the same play that they just described! The majority of the time, the description does not match what the viewer just watched.

Bolerjack sits in front of the mirror in his hotel and practices cliches.

three major problems with these jokers:
1. they treat the audience like uneducated idiots that have never seen a basketball game before in their lives. In case they don't know it, most of us that follow the Jazz have actually watched a basketball game before!

2. They think that _they_ are the entertainment! I tune in to watch the Jazz play basketball. I don't tune in to listen to Harpring and Bolerjack discuss math problems that neither can figure out. ("I had him marked with 4 fouls")

3. they absolutely refuse to inform television viewers what happened during that commercial break! How many times do we return from commercial to see someone shooting a technical free-throw, and yet all we can get is "where is my mcflurry?"!! How many times do those idiots say "Burkes for 3! errr....wait a minute, when did Chris Johnson check in?" (it was only a 2).

it's pretty sad when you look forward to those games that Boone will be on the broadcast. When he was with Hot Rod, he played the bafoon -- but we just didn't realize how good he really was. Now we can see that Boone brings some common sense and basketball IQ to the broadcast.


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## HighNDry

Someone suggested that the Jazz change their name to the "UTAH SETTLERS."

After that performance by the Jazz, I wouldn't be surprised if the Globetrotters don't sign a contract with the Jazz. 

Bolerjack and the Jazz deserve each other.


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## #1DEER 1-I

GaryFish said:


> That is where I would differ with you #1I. The Jazz are not a good franchise. They are a family franchise fixated on not hurting the feelings of people they hire, but can't do their jobs. They have passed on so much talent in the draft, they should be ashamed of themselves. And the talent they HAVE chosen, they couldn't develop. The individuals that built the franchise - Layden, Sloan, Stockton and Malone, - all were hired/drafted before the Millers took over. But then again, if Millers hadn't taken over, there wouldn't be a team in Utah at all, so I guess there is that. But once the Millers had the keys to the car, they were incapable of identifying and developing talent. They rode on the backs of Stockton and Malone for 20 years, and it has been almost 20 since they've been gone. And outside the one nice run with D-Will and Boozer, they have been pathetic. How many top 5 picks have they had that "just need a few more years to develop" but never did? How many foreign players did they draft that decided they'd rather just play in Europe? Look around the league. The Jazz are the same as Orlando, Milwaukee, Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, New Orleans, and Minnesota. At least they aren't the dumpster fire that Phoenix and Philadelphia have turned into. But to say they are a good franchise would imply a comparison to the rest of the Association. And ignores that they are just a middle of the pack team, and will always be that until there is a major overhaul in who/how/what they do to identify and develop new talent.


I get where you are coming from with the family franchise, but IMO you're off not rift in thinking they aren't a good franchise. Yes there were the Stockton and Malone days and they were great. The Boozer and Deron days can't simply be written off as nothing though. Deron has now turned into an average player, Boozer doesn't even play for a team anymore, Brewer is in the the d-league, Kirilinko didn't shine brighter when he left, and Memos days were over as well. My point with all that is, is the Jazz competed during those years and got the most out of every one of those players, when they left their careers were a shadow of what they were here. Then they definetly had some rough years but at this point their talent level is back up but injuries have plagued them. Go ahead and compare them to the rest of the Association. Is there a reason the two biggest NBA markets have half the championships awarded in the NBAs history? Its not because of managment is is due to appeal and money, two things this franchise only has so much of. What teams are always great? What teams are just in the middle like the Jazz? The majority of the league are not championship caliber teams and it takes a lot to get to that point. Step into a position and show them how it's done GF if you believe you know the ins and outs of the association and what it takes to build a championship caliber team. You need a superstar, and how many of those are there in the league today? Four, five maybe? There's only one champion, and just because the other 29 teams are not does not make them failures. Yes they should be working towards it, but it's not that simple especially in a place like Utah that isn't all that appealing. I could start in on another rant of why this state isn't more appealing but I'll step aside....


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## 2full

Speaking of the Globetrotters:
The Jazz kind of looked like the Generals in the 4th quarter. :mrgreen:


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> Paul Jame?? Seriously?
> 
> "...steps, FIRES!".
> 
> "...NEARLY picked off!"
> 
> James was as bad as Boler with garbage cliches.
> The problem with both is that the _viewers_ are able to see the same play that they just described! The majority of the time, the description does not match what the viewer just watched.
> 
> Bolerjack sits in front of the mirror in his hotel and practices cliches.
> 
> three major problems with these jokers:
> 1. they treat the audience like uneducated idiots that have never seen a basketball game before in their lives. In case they don't know it, most of us that follow the Jazz have actually watched a basketball game before!
> 
> 2. They think that _they_ are the entertainment! I tune in to watch the Jazz play basketball. I don't tune in to listen to Harpring and Bolerjack discuss math problems that neither can figure out. ("I had him marked with 4 fouls")
> 
> 3. they absolutely refuse to inform television viewers what happened during that commercial break! How many times do we return from commercial to see someone shooting a technical free-throw, and yet all we can get is "where is my mcflurry?"!! How many times do those idiots say "Burkes for 3! errr....wait a minute, when did Chris Johnson check in?" (it was only a 2).
> 
> it's pretty sad when you look forward to those games that Boone will be on the broadcast. When he was with Hot Rod, he played the bafoon -- but we just didn't realize how good he really was. Now we can see that Boone brings some common sense and basketball IQ to the broadcast.


I liked Paul James. (remember, I am even a Utefan) He did the games with a cheerful delivery and didn't even have close to the Bombast we have to endure with Bolerjack. IMO, James was closer to the predecessor to Locke in that he used to shower the listener with statistics............Ainge to the line for a one-and-one, he is shooting 84% from the line when scratching himself prior to attempting his FTs and 78% when he does not. I used to enjoy listening to cougar games when he did them and now, listening to Wrubell is about as enjoyable as going to the dentist.

I agree you are spot on in the rest of your analysis. Booner is appreciated. He is getting old however, and I wonder how long he will keep at it. Maybe T Bailey could take his place. He isn't too bad on his TV and radio spots.


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## wyoming2utah

Catherder said:


> I liked Paul James. (remember, I am even a Utefan) He did the games with a cheerful delivery and didn't even have close to the Bombast we have to endure with Bolerjack. IMO, James was closer to the predecessor to Locke in that he used to shower the listener with statistics............Ainge to the line for a one-and-one, he is shooting 84% from the line when scratching himself prior to attempting his FTs and 78% when he does not. I used to enjoy listening to cougar games when he did them and now, listening to Wrubell is about as enjoyable as going to the dentist.
> 
> I agree you are spot on in the rest of your analysis. Booner is appreciated. He is getting old however, and I wonder how long he will keep at it. Maybe T Bailey could take his place. He isn't too bad on his TV and radio spots.


My problem with Paul James was that I was a radio listener. I am a Ute fan too, but I have always cheered for BYU away from the Ute games. But, for the most part, I only listened to Paul James on the radio. And, I hated him because he did a terrible job of describing the actual events of the game. I don't know how many times he would say that a pass was caught or intercepted only to come back moments later and say that it was dropped. That alone drove me nuts enough to hate him...remember, BYU was the original pass happy team. The last thing I wanted was false hope or false disappointment broadcast over the radio when I couldn't see the play for myself!

I can't stand Bolerjack because he doesn't even watch the game...you can actually tell with his broadcasts that he watches the monitor in front of him and not the game. Truly good broadcasters are hard to come by...

...it saddens me that Joe Gargioloa died this past year and Vin Scully's career will soon be over. To me, those guys ARE baseball, and I hate the Dodgers! Losing Hot Rod has been a rough transition for me as a Jazz fan, and I certainly didn't appreciate him enough when he was around...he was as much an icon for the Jazz as Harry Caray was for the Cubs. With that being said, though, Bolerjack needs to go.


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## Packout

The Jazz play with little confidence and heart when it gets tough. They lack the on-court leadership of a confident veteran. To me that is their biggest failure and the fault lies at the feet of Dennis Lindsey. They had almost $10 million they could have paid to someone who would have fit that role.

Duncan comes in and learns from veterans. Stockton comes in and learns from veterans. Magic comes in and learns from veterans. Even LeBron gained from playing with players who learned from veterans. Unless someone is crazy skilled and gifted they must have a veteran to stand up for them and show them how it is done. The Jazz have no one on their roster to teach Hayward, Lyles, Hood, Exum, Favors, Exum, etc. None of our guys learned from Veterans and so they can't teach the new guys those qualities.

For the Jazz and their Schills to keep saying that making the playoffs isn't that important is simple stupidity. How long will that talent they are "developing" want to stay with a sub-par team? Why would Gordon want to stay with the Jazz when there is no winning culture? Not making the playoffs is damaging their future-- and their fans. The fans were denied from seeing Golden State play 2 games in Utah. 

The Jazz had better think outside the box this summer and sell their souls to bring in some veteran talent or all they will be is the C league farm system to the real NBA level teams.

Oh-- and Locke is nails on the chalk board to me. "Score is 22 to 26 Utah. Gordon takes the ball on the left wing with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. Gordon has been shooting 39.786 percent from the left wing on pick and rolls with Rudy, and can make the pass 84.29 percent of the time off the pick and roll. The Jazz have an 85% chance of not scoring with 12 seconds left on the shot clock if the ball hasn't passed through 4 players in 3 seconds. I love this team. When I rode in on the bus we all had a good laugh and Gordon and I are best buddies. And Rudy had made 12 straight free throws in warm-ups while Favs was getting stretched out. And..." 

Ron Boone "Uhhh, David, the score is now 31 to 28......"


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## PBH

Packout said:


> TWhy would Gordon want to stay with the Jazz when there is no winning culture?
> 
> The Jazz had better think outside the box this summer and sell their souls to bring in some veteran talent or all they will be is the C league farm system to the real NBA level teams.


so quit trying to make Gordon that "star".

As much as Raja Bell grates my nerves, he was correct saying that Gordon shouldn't be the primary guy on the Jazz!

So, either trade Gordon this off season for that veteran player, or take the ball out of his hands and let him play at his natural fit: a spot up shooter and a slasher. He is not a 1-on-1 creator!

Rodney Hood will help us all forget the turnover-machine named Hayward.


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## Critter

Utah will never get a veteran player that can come in and make the team better. It was mentioned in a earlier post, there is just nothing in Utah that would make a veteran player want to come to the state when they can get the same amount of money elsewhere and enjoy where they are at. 

The Jazz got lucky when they drafted Stockton and Malone and then they got luckier when they decided to stay and play with the Jazz rather than go elsewhere.


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> so quit trying to make Gordon that "star".
> 
> As much as Raja Bell grates my nerves, he was correct saying that Gordon shouldn't be the primary guy on the Jazz!
> 
> So, either trade Gordon this off season for that veteran player, or take the ball out of his hands and let him play at his natural fit: a spot up shooter and a slasher. He is not a 1-on-1 creator!
> 
> Rodney Hood will help us all forget the turnover-machine named Hayward.


There is certainly a lot of truth to this, but I'm not sure Hood or others on the roster are the single answer either.

1. Hayward is partially a turnover machine because he has to play "point forward" a lot due to the Jazz execrable point guard play. Besides not being a 1-on-1 guy, he is also not a point guard. I do have to agree with Raja that he isn't a real #1 guy.

2. The truth is that Hood is as much responsible for the Jazz crashing and burning in the last week as anyone. He shot something like 1-8 in the Dallas game and wasn't much better in some of the other games. When he is on, the Jazz have a reliable outside threat, but when he isn't, it is fugly. Will he be more consistent in the future?

3. Burks is our best 1-on-1 guy and creator, but the dude can't stay on the court long enough to really see if he can be an "answer" either. Who knows at this point.

4. If Exum proves to be a good point guard, the Jazz could be in business, but again that could take 2-3 years before we know or not. If not, then it has to be addressed some way. When our best PG was picked off the end of Atlanta's bench/scrap heap at midseason, this is an obvious problem.

5. If the Jazz get a juicy offer for Hayward, I think they ought to take it. I keep hearing Boston? How about Bostons pick from Brooklyn that could land in the top 3? Might have to think about that.


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## GaryFish

The Hayward led team is just like the Kirilenko led team. If Hayward (or AK) is your best player, you don't have a team.

Back to #1I - you suggest I go tell the Jazz what to do. Clearly, I don't have the knowledge or expertise to even come close. Were I in charge, they'd be scrambling to find 15 wins. But I also look around the NBA, and realize that since the Millers have owned the team, they have missed big time in the draft. They passed on future hall of fame players, for foreign "what could be the next....." a dozen or more times. The years of Kevin O'Conner, the only decent player they drafted was D-Will. And Sloan made him an all star, and his hard head returned him to middle of the pack at best. But remember - Sloan was hired before the Millers got the team. The most recent miss on talent was Kawhi Leonard. The kid played for San Diego State when they were in the same league with Utah and BYU. He played more than a dozen games in the state of Utah - and another half dozen in the conference tournaments, up against Jimmer. I'm a Jimmer fan, but even I could see Leonard was a superior talent. The Jazz took Kanter with the #2 pick. How long was he even on the Jazz? I know he is a solid role player for the Thunder, but Leonard is a franchise guy, that is going to keep the Spurs on top, continuing what started with Robinson, then Duncan, 25 years ago. Leonard was in their lap, and they missed it for another in a long line of foreign potential. 

And while I'm sure I couldn't do any better at evaluating talent, I've also not dedicated my career to it as those in the Jazz organization. Thing is this though - ownership won't recognize when their talent evaluators are missing on players, and keep the same people in there, making the same mistakes. No other franchise would have kept Kevin O'Conner around for as long as the Jazz did. And Lindsey was at least a change, but they kept KOC on payroll, and Lindsey certainly isn't able to draft well, as can be noted in the recent years. The only way the Jazz can build a team is the draft, because as was pointed out, they aren't going to do it with free agency. And really, with few exceptions, this is the case for every single team in the NBA. The only team in recent memory to win with free agents was the Lebron Heat, but they still had the team core of D-Wade that they got in the draft. Every other continual contender does it in the draft. And for 30 years now, the Jazz have whiffed on the draft.


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## Packout

My point wasn't that Hayward should be the number 1, it was that the Jazz will lose Gordon to free agency next year if they don't show marked improvement. Gordon is the first that can leave via free agency and others will follow if the Jazz are not improving. If the Jazz lose Heyward then they better get something for him of the "development" time will have been a waste because the Jazz never put anyone with him and the rest of the team. 

There are ways to bring in a quality, impact veteran to provide leadership to the team. I'm not saying it needs to be KD or LeBron or Steph. Realistic veterans who can guide these young players and make them better mentally/wise. The Jazz have built up all kinds of assets. They better get using them before the expiration date runs out on their current players.....


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## GaryFish

"built up all kids of assets." Future draft picks are as useless as past draft pics that never developed. That is radio speak by management which means "Yea, we got nothing." They can use those assets to trade up to get Kantor 2.0 I suppose. They love those "foreign prospects with great up side...." But by year 3 in the league, a player is, who he is going to be, with very few exceptions. Who is the last player that really came out of their shell in year 5 or 6? I can't think of any.


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## PBH

what's crazy is that we have a very good inside presence (Favors) and yet we continue to ignore it and play the "isolate and create" offense.

We don't have anyone on our team that can do that.
Why not utlize that inside presence? That's a coaching issue. (and I really like Snyder!)


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