# Orange during Muzzleloader Hunt?



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

As I understand it you are required to wear blaze orange only if there is a centerfire hunt taking place on the unit.

I’ve been consulting my calendar and cannot see that there is a centerfire hunt taking place this weekend. Anyone else seeing anything different? I don’t mind wearing orange if it’s necessary but would rather not if it isn’t.

Thanks


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't see any overlap, so you should be good.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

you dont need to wear orange during the muzzy. even in areas ive been in during the muzzy hunt that have also had center fire hunts going at the same time, i have never seen anyone packing a muzzleloader wearing orange.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

sheepassassin said:


> you dont need to wear orange during the muzzy. even in areas ive been in during the muzzy hunt that have also had center fire hunts going at the same time, i have never seen anyone packing a muzzleloader wearing orange.


Then there in violation, its very clean in the regulations.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

I also recall that proclamation used to say that only the person who has the general season elk or deer tag has to wear orange, but this years guidebook says that the rules have changed and that section says this specifically:

Requirement to wear
hunter orange
Utah Code § 23-20-31
You must wear a minimum of 400 square
inches of hunter orange material on your
head, chest and back while hunting any species of big game, unless you are involved in
one of the following types of hunts:
•Participating in a once-in-a-lifetime,
statewide conservation or statewide
sportsman hunt
*•Participating in an archery or muzzleloader hunt outside of an area where a
general-season any legal weapon bull
elk or general-season any legal weapon
buck deer hunt is occurring*
•Hunting on a cooperative wildlife
management unit (CWMU), unless
hunter orange is otherwise required by
the operator of the CWMU
•Participating in urban deer removal,
as authorized by Utah Admin. Rule
R657-65

But do any muzzleloader hunts coincide with general season elk or deer? That is the important distinction here, it doesn't show a requirement for LE rifle hunts.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

IF you chose to hunt with a muzzleloader during your any legal weapon hunt then you’d have to wear orange. 

I just wanted to make sure that there weren’t rifle hunts taking place that I was not aware of. My particular area is the Central/Manti unit and I don’t think there are any GS or LE hunts going on at that time.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> I also recall that proclamation used to say that only the person who has the general season elk or deer tag has to wear orange, but this years guidebook says that the rules have changed and that section says this specifically:
> 
> Requirement to wear
> hunter orange
> ...


no but several antlerless hunts coincide with archery and muzzy hunts. all LE rifle hunts must wear orange. only ones that are exempt are the OIL hunts. im surprised you didnt already know that!


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

My apologies, but it doesn't say anything at all about hunter orange for muzzleloader in LE hunt areas, here's the part where it talks about the rules changing for clarification:

_Hunter orange
Utah Code § 23-20-31
Utah's hunter orange regulations changed
this year (see page 42). You are required
to obey the state's hunter orange laws, unless your hunt is among the exceptions. For
example, archery and muzzleloader hunters
are not required to wear hunter orange unless
the other hunts occurring in the area are for
general-season any legal weapon buck deer
or bull elk.
_


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

The 2014 guidebook shows this for the same section, so it changed:

_Hunter orange
Utah Code § 23-20-31
You must obey Utah's hunter orange
regulation (see page 33) if a centerfire rifle
hunt is happening in the area where you're
archery hunting. This does not include hunts
for once-in-a-lifetime species._

Sorry for the slight detour in the thread guys, I just didn't want sheep to be confused.

Edit: that change happened in 2018. Good reason to read the new guidebooks, I guess. 
Edit edit: It doesn't specifically say it there but I'm sure that means anyone hunting archery or muzzleloader INSIDE the general season hunt areas has to wear orange. I'm thinking the important change is that it doesn't say "centerfire" anymore and doesn't say anything about LE hunts. Also no mention of blaze orange in a camo pattern. Limited entry hunts are not part of the exception and obviously you still have to wear the same blaze orange during those hunts.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> The 2014 guidebook shows this for the same section, so it changed:
> 
> _Hunter orange
> Utah Code § 23-20-31
> ...


seems to me the only one 'confused' here, is you.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

How's that exactly? The answer to the question here is that it doesn't matter if there is an LE hunt in the area, the guidebook was changed to specifically say "general season" hunts. *It's clear, you don't have to wear hunter orange in an LE hunt area if you are hunting archery or muzzleloader as long as general season hunts are not also occurring in that area at the same time.* There's the remaining question of whether you trust people in the area enough to actually do that, but I guess that's subjective.

Edit: put the important part in bold.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> How's that exactly? The answer to the question here is that it doesn't matter if there is an LE hunt in the area, the guidebook was changed to specifically say "general season" hunts. *It's clear, you don't have to wear hunter orange in an LE hunt area if you are hunting archery or muzzleloader as long as general season hunts are not also occurring in that area at the same time.* There's the remaining question of whether you trust people in the area enough to actually do that, but I guess that's subjective.
> 
> Edit: put the important part in bold.


uh..... duh?


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

sheepassassin said:


> you dont need to wear orange during the muzzy. even in areas ive been in during the muzzy hunt that have also had center fire hunts going at the same time, i have never seen anyone packing a muzzleloader wearing orange.


So you been breaking the law there buddy? Before 2018, you always had to wear orange if you were hunting at all in areas that had a centerfire hunt going and the only exception was for archery and muzzleloader and if the only other hunt in the area was a OIAL. Your second post said the same but I didn't notice what your first post said. Talk about confused!

Edit: Adding for clarity, you still have to wear hunter orange while hunting a unit that has a general season hunt going at the same time, like you always had to.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> So you been breaking the law there buddy? Before 2018, you always had to wear orange if you were hunting at all in areas that had a centerfire hunt going and the only exception was for archery and muzzleloader and if the only other hunt in the area was a OIAL. Your second post said the same but I didn't notice what your first post said. Talk about confused!
> 
> Edit: Adding for clarity, you still have to wear hunter orange while hunting a unit that has a general season hunt going at the same time, like you always had to.


again, with your assumptions! no, i was participating in the center fire rifle hunt for another species that was NOT a OIL hunt, that took place during the general muzzleloader deer hunt. i had on the legal required amount of orange that i needed for that hunt. many and i mean MANY muzzleloader hunters did not have any orange on.

its funny how wrapped up in stupid big game laws you seem to be, when you had no idea there was a archery LE bull hunt and as well as a archery spike hunt that were taking place at the same time, on the same unit! start with the simple basic regs first, before you try to tackle the more complex ones such as hunter orange requirements during general season archery and muzzy hunts.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

sheepassassin said:


> *you dont need to wear orange during the muzzy. even in areas ive been in during the muzzy hunt that have also had center fire hunts going at the same time*


I don't apply for any LE hunts at all so I didn't know archery had LE hunts going during the majority of the general archery, thought that is a thin excuse and I'll agree my reaction regarding that subject was uncalled for. I was not advocating illegal and dangerous behavior, but your statement in your first post in THIS thread totally IS and the distinction is huge. I hate to go on but it was that first post that brought me into this, I tried to clarify in a civil manner but you're so set on the argument for its own sake that you fail to see how dumb that first statement was.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> I don't apply for any LE hunts at all so I didn't know archery had LE hunts going during the majority of the general archery, thought that is a thin excuse and I'll agree my reaction regarding that subject was uncalled for. I was not advocating illegal and dangerous behavior, but your statement in your first post in THIS thread totally IS and the distinction is huge. I hate to go on but it was that first post that brought me into this, I tried to clarify in a civil manner but you're so set on the argument for its own sake that you fail to see how dumb that first statement was.


you really need to work on understanding what is in a post. in my first post, i stated that no, you dont need to wear orange. that was in response to the OP question. he gave enough info in his post to answer the question. he said he had done research and couldnt find any over lapping hunts for the unit he would be in, that would create a need for him to wear orange, but he was double checking with others to make sure his interpretation was correct which it was. more than 90% of the units a general muzzy deer hunt takes place in, there arent any center fire rifle hunts taking place that are outside of the OIL exception. however there are a few. i made a statement on the second half on my post, that i have been on a couple of those exception hunts and i have yet to encounter another hunter, muzzy deer hunter, that had any orange on. the fish cop didnt seem to have an issue with it either, since he was checking permits with everyone in the parking lot. we had a rifle, a bunch of other guys had muzzleloaders. it was an observation, nowhere did i state it was the law. quit reading into my posts more than just at the surface level. youre taking them way too seriously. its the **** internet. everyone is a winner, no one is wrong and everyone has a bigger dik to swing. get over it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Orange should go away IMO... maybe keep the hat like Wyoming. If you are relying on orange to discern humans from game you are retarded and shouldn't be hunting.

We share the woods with all kinds of other people who are out there to enjoy hiking, photography, nature... whatever. They wear all kinds of things, and colors of things year around.

I had this tool come walking past us first thing opening morning last year and ran all the deer off this hillside we were watching opening morning. No orange, no gun, brown jacket with brown backpack... there isn't even a trail here to follow. We hiked in at 0'Dark Thirty to be in position... and this granola cruncher decides to wander on through just as the sun was cresting. Well, its his right of course, I wasn't happy about it, and I strongly believe this wasn't the best weekend to go wandering around at 8500ft, but we shrugged it off.

There he was, no orange wandering around. I verified him as a human through the binos when I first saw the motion.

We make dang sure of our targets before even bringing the gun up, I dont ever rely on "color" of a thing to identify a target or not. This is why the orange jacket thing is moot, there is no requirement for non hunters to wear orange, so you absolutely CANNOT rely on it. Assume everything is a non-target until proven otherwise.










-DallanC


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Yeah, who doesn't put binoculars on any target they aren't 110% sure of? That change in 2018 only requiring hunter orange for archery and muzzleloader if you're in a general season area is a step in the right direction. It would be nice if we could get some kind of notice for people that hunting season has started though. Every year on the start of upland game I get people with eyes coming out of their head that I'm hiking the same trail as them with a shotgun.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Jedidiah said:


> Yeah, who doesn't put binoculars on any target they aren't 110% sure of?


Too many... unfortunately. That includes lots of people that don't carry binos or a spotting scope with them, using their scope to check out targets.

That's one thing I love about ML hunting, the vast majority of all the deer and elk I've ever killed have been within 60-70 yards. No question of target when the animal is usually right there blinking at me.

-DallanC


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

sheepassassin said:


> its the **** internet. everyone is a winner, no one is wrong and everyone has a bigger dik to swing. get over it.


You're right, but maybe someone could have misunderstood that whole post even in context as saying that orange is not ever necessary for the muzzleloader. I'm still going to pat myself on the back for pointing out that it only applies to general season hunts now anyway.


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## headbones (Sep 7, 2019)

What does a little orange hurt? Even if its not a requirement, wont hurt. Aren't most critters supposed to be color blind. I think they respond more to movement and smell than what color your hunting cloths are. An orange hat only helps others you are hunting with keep you spotted and other hunters that may not know you are in area. I hate walking down a ridge and then spotting that camo hunter 50 yards in front of me, when a little orange would have gave it away earlier so I didn't invade his space. JW


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Bumping this because my friend is out today on the ML GS Deer hunt and was yelled at for not wearing orange because an antlerless cow hunt is going on.

People are funny. If you don't even know the rules, mind your business and don't yell at others.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

I found this interesting while hunting an area last week that had the LE elk hunt going, general season muzzleload deer, and the LE spot and stalk bear hunt going. All bear hunters were draped in orange with center fire rifles, and everyone else in camo.

I agree with Dallan that everyone should be using their binoculars to verify target before aiming the muzzle at them. I used to see that all the time when I was a kid. The whole rifle pointed at whatever needed to be glassed whether game, or even other hunters spotted. 

I don't know if anyone else noticed this last week if you hunted an area with all three of those hunts going... Felt bad for the LE muzzleload elk hunters. There was way more pressure than normal in the area.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> People are funny. _If you don't even know the rules, mind your business and don't yell at others_.


obviously, if you are yelling at others it is because you know the rules. Even if you don't know the rules. Sounds like a catch 22. You gotta know the rules before you can know you don't know the rules.

Major Major Major Major instructed Sergeant Towser to admit visitors only when Major Major is out of the office.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Bumping this because my friend is out today on the ML GS Deer hunt and was yelled at for not wearing orange because an antlerless cow hunt is going on.
> 
> People are funny. If you don't even know the rules, mind your business and don't yell at others.


If that antlerless hunt is a rifle hunt then your friend should have been wearing orange according to the field regs.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

headbones said:


> What does a little orange hurt?


Good point, hunter orange underwear it is.

-DallanC


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

KineKilla said:


> If that antlerless hunt is a rifle hunt then your friend should have been wearing orange according to the field regs.


Incorrect. Sorry, I posted this up above and while the argument itself was stupid the fact is that they changed it in 2018. Archery and muzzleloader hunters only have to wear orange while hunting in a general season area while a general season hunt is going on. It is no longer required for them to wear orange during those other centerfire rifle hunts. I know it seems like a small point to make but I mean if people are yelling at each other over it that's only a small step from getting in trouble over it.

Full disclaimer, don't trust every person out there with a rifle. Do THEY know the regs have changed from the way it's been since there have been regs, basically? Probably not. Not going to help to pull out the 2018 and 2019 regs and show them to the dude who just put a hole in that nice new Kuiu set you just got.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Supposed to wear orange during an any legal weapon hunt if you are hunting. Like Dallan, I think the whole oragne thing is outdated and was maybe necessary when hunters appeared to be dumber. Have never worn orange when my choice in NM over 40 yrs of hunting and yet to feel like my life was in danger of being mistook for a deer or elk.

It was asked what does it hurt to wear orange? Simple, my feelings get hurt wearing orange


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

https://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2019_field_regs.pdf

Please search that document for the word "orange". There are about 5 different places where it says if you are an archery or muzzleloader hunter you only have to wear orange inside general season hunt areas with a general season hunt in progress.

ML or Archery in LE rifle hunt area with no general season rifle hunt in progress = not required to wear orange.

ML or Archery in antlerless rifle hunt area with no general season rifle hunt in progress = not required to wear orange.

Page 27:

Hunter orange
Utah Code § 23-20-31
You must obey Utah's hunter orange
regulation (see page 42). Archery and
muzzleloader hunters are not required to wear
hunter orange unless the other hunts occurring
in the area are for any legal weapon general season buck deer or bull elk.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

hunters orange is simply dumb.. If you want to wear it then go ahead but, I dont believe it should be a requirement. laws are laws though. I also dont believe it makes you any safer, in fact I would say the opposite. it just gives someone a buffer zone to see how close they can get there bullet by you to shoot a deer and still maintain "their" standards of safety.

The first year I was married, My wife had a rifle deer tag for pine valley, so, we did what everyone else does down there and we hunted the foot hills off of all the alfalfa fields.

Talk about PEOPLE! we parked and walked in. There were trucks, ATV's and people on every nob, knoll, slope, hill, tree etc etc.. when it got light and the deer started coming off of the fields it was chaos! it didnt matter if you were wearing a orange jump suit and waving an orange flag, bullets were flying in every direction and at one point I got my wife in my armes and we hunkered real low..

hunters orange....pushhh.. stupid!

Arizona doesnt require hunters orange and when I go Couse deer hunting I see 1 other guy during a 5 day period if im lucky, and iv never heard of any hunting accidents down there for lack of orange. I'm sure there are a few though (which could be said for any state.

I wear Orange only if im absolutely required to do so.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

As I've posted before,
This law is loosely enforced at best.

The Utah orange laws needs to go away.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

goofy elk said:


> As I've posted before,
> This law is loosely enforced at best.
> 
> The Utah orange laws needs to go away.


Yep. As stated, if someone needs orange to determine if the target is a legal and safe one, they should not be hunting with a high-power centerfire rifle anyway...

However, I prefer others to wear orange so I can see where they are before spending time getting in somewhere only to find another guy already there :mrgreen:


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

goosefreak said:


> hunters orange is simply dumb.. If you want to wear it then go ahead but, I dont believe it should be a requirement. laws are laws though. I also dont believe it makes you any safer, in fact I would say the opposite.


Just for reference: https://www.hunter-ed.com/blog/blaze-orange-saves-lives/

I will take that at face value...I think it is a good law because of all the idiots out there with guns. Every state that has ever instituted hunter orange laws saw a subsequent decrease in hunting related shootings...that's not a coincidence.

http://www.atsko.com/hunter-orange-proving-the-obvious/


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> Just for reference: https://www.hunter-ed.com/blog/blaze-orange-saves-lives/
> 
> I will take that at face value...I think it is a good law because of all the idiots out there with guns. Every state that has ever instituted hunter orange laws saw a subsequent decrease in hunting related shootings...that's not a coincidence.
> 
> http://www.atsko.com/hunter-orange-proving-the-obvious/





Jedidiah said:


> https://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2019_field_regs.pdf
> 
> Please search that document for the word "orange". There are about 5 different places where it says if you are an archery or muzzleloader hunter you only have to wear orange inside general season hunt areas with a general season hunt in progress.
> 
> ...


I guess, even after the thread clarified it, people STILL think it's required... So I get why someone yapped at him lol.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Yeah, you'll see people arguing over this for a while. It's quite a drastic change when you consider how fast things like that have been moved along in the past, but considering how much of a change it is it kind of makes you wonder if it isn't just a first step in quickly getting all hunter orange requirements removed or greatly reduced.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Well it figures, Utah will do away with there orange requirement after I just purchased 2 Orange Aglow panels for my pack and load sling. I found on my last hunt that the orange pack cover was just a pain taking on and off the pack so I purchased the panels. Kind of funny how I've been packing around this orange cover in my pack for the last 5 seasons and only had to use it for the LE tag. The other states I hunt in don't require it or require just one item of orange.

I will probably just leave the panel on my pack since a little orange on the backside doesn't hurt anything.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I just called springville DWR regarding hunter orange, and figured this is a good a place to post this as any. I didn't ask about muzzy specifically. I already know that your not required to wear hunter orange during a muzzy hunt - assuming no centerfire hunt is in the area. They usually are not. 

Basically, what I just learned is this:

1.) Only the Hunter is required to wear blaze orange. Meaning, you have the tag, and the rifle on your person. 

2.) Any buddies that go along , say for glassing and packing, are not considered Hunters; and are not required to wear blaze orange at all.

3.) The regs saying chest, back, and head, mean just that. Which means, you do have to wear a blaze orange hat, even if you've the 400 inchs covering the rest of your torso.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I just called springville DWR regarding hunter orange, and figured this is a good a place to post this as any. I didn't ask about muzzy specifically. I already know that your not required to wear hunter orange during a muzzy hunt - assuming no centerfire hunt is in the area. They usually are not.
> 
> Basically, what I just learned is this:
> 
> ...


replied


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Yeah that stands to reason. They are "strongly encouraging" blaze orange. The laws are pretty stupid and vauge. Personally, I'll always wear at least a vest during a rifle hunt even if i'm not hunting. I'm going along someone elses hunt (for once) to glass and pack later this month. I'll definitely be wearing my vest, but I'll probably be wearing my non blaze orange ear flap hat that I like to wear during elk muzzy - cause it's warm. :mrgreen:


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Around 18 years ago I was coming off the mountain on a LE elk hunt with my brother in law. All I had on was a orange hat with my sweatshirt in my pack since the temperatures had gone up quite a bit. My brother in law had his orange on since he was the hunter. The officer ragged on me for around 30 minutes of why I needed to be wearing it and that he should issue me a ticket and let the judge decide.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> Around 18 years ago I was coming off the mountain on a LE elk hunt with my brother in law. All I had on was a orange hat with my sweatshirt in my pack since the temperatures had gone up quite a bit. My brother in law had his orange on since he was the hunter. The officer ragged on me for around 30 minutes of why I needed to be wearing it and that he should issue me a ticket and let the judge decide.


They seem to forget that if you don't have a tag (and aren't poaching), you aren't under any rule of law from them.

They can't force the entire non hunting population to wear orange.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I just called springville DWR regarding hunter orange, and figured this is a good a place to post this as any. I didn't ask about muzzy specifically. I already know that your not required to wear hunter orange during a muzzy hunt - assuming no centerfire hunt is in the area. They usually are not.
> 
> Basically, what I just learned is this:
> 
> ...


Call Springville back.
Tell them to read the regs.

Orange camo is legal.
NOT just blaze orange.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Orange camo is no longer mentioned in the regs since last year. You know, I've held off from saying anything but the irony is so thick I'm going to drown in it if I don't. "Read the regs."


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Jedidiah said:


> Orange camo is no longer mentioned in the regs since last year. You know, I've held off from saying anything but the irony is so thick I'm going to drown in it if I don't. "Read the regs."


The wording was changed to 'Orange material".....
Which camo orange falls under.

"Blaze" was removed from the regs.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Alright, that makes sense, also I should have added a goofy face after my last post to set the right tone.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

goofy elk said:


> Call Springville back.
> Tell them to read the regs.
> 
> Orange camo is legal.
> NOT just blaze orange.


I don't think I got specific on type of orange, I just said "hunter orange, and said "blaze orange" when i made my post cause that's just what floated through my head. I never asked them about Orange camo since I already knew it was legal.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

This is just my opinion and I mean no offense to anyone. Not wearing orange is dumb as hell if there is a FIREARM hunt going on. This makes me think of the motorcycle helmet issue here in Utah. There is no law that says you have to wear one but just out of common sense and a little bit of love for yourself and your family; wear a **** helmet/wear some **** orange. People do stupid stuff out in the woods as they do on the roads. I've been shot towards several times and at once (I pressed charges on the idiot).

Besides... Ungulates see orange as brown because they can't see far into the red side of the spectrum. If you want to be seen by deer and elk then go ahead and hunt in your blue jeans. :grin:


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The closest I ever came to getting shot I was wearing a full blaze orange sweatshirt and blaze orange hat. The bullet hit the sleeve of my sweatshirt. Never saw the guy who shot but from the sound of the discharge my guess was he was less than a hundred yards away.

Maybe body armor is at least as important as orange.:smile:


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Required hunter safety courses have done more to prevent accidental shootings when hunting than wearing orange has. Most of these shootings were self inflicted from poor handling of the firearm.

I cannot remeber the last time an accidental shooting happened in my home state where orange is not a requirement because the hunter/shooter mistook another for a critter with brown, gray, or tan fur.

I will admit it does allow you to see another from the corner of your eye prior to touching one off at a buck across a canyon...


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