# Which firearm...(archery hunter be kind)



## gitterdone81 (Sep 3, 2009)

I am looking to purchase a rifle and really have no idea where to begin. Ideally if there is a caliber that works well for both deer and elk that would be great, as I don't know if in the future I would want to do archery elk/rifle deer or rifle elk/archery deer. 

Also is a 22 big enough for coyote hunting?


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Personally I think the starting point for an elk/deer cartridge is the 308/ 7mm-08 and goes up from there. 
You can’t go wrong with a good old 30-06, it has a large assortment of factory loads to choose from, not to mention its ammo and guns are widely available everywhere, all of which make for a sensible choice for a first rifle.

Are you referring to a .22 rim fire or center fire? Any of the .22 cal center fires will kill yotes just fine, so will a .22 rim fire, but your range is limited and your margin of error is very limited.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Just about all of the .30 cal firearms would fit the bill for both deer and elk and can also be reloaded with smaller bullets for the yotes. Another group of guns to look at would be the .284 cal such as the 7mm-08, 7mm mag, 280 Remington ect. Once again good for deer and elk and have smaller loads available for yotes. A lot of it depends on your experience shooting, your ability/willingness to deal with recoil, if you want a gun you can find ammo for at just about any back woods gas station or something a little more unique and how much you want to spend.

Is a .22 to small for yotes? not if you wait until you can count his whiskers.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Hello there, could we have one of you moderators cut this off now? Mojo just said all this young guy needs to know for now. If you let it go on any longer some knuckle head is going to jump in there and start blabbin about how his brother-in-law has killed hundreds of elk with his AR15 in .223 and it's all about shot placement, and on, and on, and on, until this poor kid won't have a clue. :roll: o-||


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> Hello there, could we have one of you moderators cut this off now? Mojo just said all this young guy needs to know for now. If you let it go on any longer some knuckle head is going to jump in there and start blabbin about how his brother-in-law has killed hundreds of elk with his AR15 in .223 and it's all about shot placement, and on, and on, and on, until this poor kid won't have a clue. :roll: o-||


 o-|| o-|| o-|| :lol:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm partial to .270 WSM, that's what I use for an all around gun. I've killed deer, elk, antelope and several other species with it.

30-06 is probably my next choice, due to availability of ammunition and the variety of bullets., not to mention ammunition price. Some of the Magnum and short magnum rounds will cost more to shoot, so if money is an issue, I'd go with traditional calibers.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

If it's your first gun, go with one of the big three basics-- 270, 7mm, 30-06. Plus take into consideration what the other people in your hunting party are using. It's always nice to be using the same caliber gun as others in your group in case of accident or real crappy shooting. All three of those are proven killers for deer and elk and will do exactly what you need them to do, plus in a real pinch their ammunition is available at almost every ma and pa store.


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## thrillseaker (Sep 26, 2010)

I agree with mojo you can't go wrong with a good 30-06


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I do have a couple of -06's myself, but at heart I'm a magnum man. I just didn't see the point of barraging him with too much info right out of the gate. 



270 WSM Rules!!!!!!! :lol:


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

Go with the .30/06 for all of the reasons stated above. Easy to find, "inexpensive" ammo with a huge range of bullet choices. The /06 works great on everything from coyotes to moose with the right bullet choice.
If you are new to guns, don't get pushed into the whole "short magnum" and "super short" calibers. They do have their place, but not for the beginner. Keep it simple, go with the .30/06.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> Hello there, could we have one of you moderators cut this off now? Mojo just said all this young guy needs to know for now. If you let it go on any longer some knuckle head is going to jump in there and start blabbin about how his brother-in-law has killed hundreds of elk with his AR15 in .223 and it's all about shot placement, and on, and on, and on, until this poor kid won't have a clue. :roll: o-||


I hunt elk with a 17 Remington. Proper placement is the key. :O•-:


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

If you aren't going to be hunting a whole lot. (I am guessing you will be switching it up with archery) I would go with one of the more mass produced calibers, like the 30-06, .308 win, .270 win, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag. I own a .270. I haven't killed an elk with it yet, but I believe it will do the job.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> Go with the .30/06 for all of the reasons stated above.
> 
> +1


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I also would agree on the good ol 30-06. It is such a great cartridge with a history. Even if you don't end up with a 30-06, I would also agree that staying in the .30 caliber range would be a good thing. There are some great bullet options in that caliber that give fantastic performance for all types of game.

However, Longbow and Gwailow really tickled my fancy on a .257 WBY. That one would sure be a fun rifle to own
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28343


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

30-06 hands down. If I could only own 1 caliber of rifle it would be a 30 cal.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

Good advice so far. You can't go wrong with a 30-06 or a .270. There will always be the guys that say how much better a 30 caliber rifle is, but when you break it down these two calibers are very similar. As mentioned above you could always go with a 7mm or a .308 as well. Any of these calibers will fit your needs fine, the ammo will be less expensive than the short mags and are available in affordable rifle models. I have killed mule deer, elk, antelope, moose, black bear, whitetail deer, etc. all with one shot from a .270.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Its true about the 270 vs the 30-06. other than I'd rather have a 30 caliber bullet as apposed to a 27 caliber bullet. AND the 30-06 is a "NATO" round, meaning, it can usaully be found in pretty much any country that has any sort of small arms weaponization. The 270 will shoot lighter bullets flatter, but the 30-06 will carry a heavier bullet, (IMO) making it the better choice for large game. Its really 6's and up to your personal preferance. enjoy and let us know what you get.  



Gee


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Add another vote for the 30-06. I have other calibers, but this is the one that sees the most action. I like magnums too, but the 30-06 is cheaper to practice with, and as an archer I'm sure you'll agree that practice is paramount to obtaining proper shot placement. Find one that fits right and you'll enjoy your range sessions. There isn't a game animal in North America that hasn't fallen to the 30-06. I've dropped elk right where they stand with it without another step taken.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2010)

i have a .30-378 wetherby. i love that gun. used it on everything from gophers to moose. i know its a little over kill for something such as a deer or pronghorn... but you can never kill something too dead! im a fan of big guns, stuff rarely goes anywhere after a hit.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I added a 30-06 to the collection last year for all of the reasons mentioned above. If you really want to nerd it, check out these sights to demonstrate what the ballistics mean on the mountain. 
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm
http://huntingnut.com/index.php?name=PointBlankOnline
You will see very minimal difference in the ballistics between any of the sizes mentioned. As to your last question about 22 for coyotes, I have heard of people hitting a yote with a 22, but I certainly would not take a 22 with yotes in mind. Simply not enough juice unless it were to be hit perfectly from less than 30 yards or so. The yotes seem to prefer the 22-250, 223 and 243.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

kill_'em_all said:


> i have a .30-378 wetherby. i love that gun. used it on everything from gophers to moose. i know its a little over kill for something such as a deer or pronghorn... but you can never kill something too dead! im a fan of big guns, stuff rarely goes anywhere after a hit.


It's too bad the brass is so darned expensive for the 30-378, what a neat cartridge.

If money was no object with respect to .30 caliber rifles, my dream would be a custom Lazzeroni 7.82 Warbird. Nothing quite like sending a 168 grain bullet sailing at 3600fps!


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Can you ever go wrong with a 30-06? I don't think so. It'll kill ****-near anything on this planet, managable recoil, a wide array of bullets and ammo and if by chance you get into some wild shooting frenzy up on the hill, you can turn to your buddy and there's a good chance he'll have some ammo for you.
I could probably say the same thing about the 270 Win.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Oh the decisions to be made when buying your first big game rifle...

Thankfully, I didnt have to make that decision myself. I received a hand me down .270 from my grandfather over 20 years ago. Its all Ive ever used and it has done the job every time from varmints to elk.


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## Bhilly81 (Oct 18, 2009)

Well it looks like im a little late to the conversation but i will cast my vote for the 270 i truly enjoy mine i only picked it because i was going to get a 30.06 but when i decided to get it they had already sold it i have been more than happy with the 270 but my advise would be not to use the 22 for the yotes unless you really have nothing else i personally use a 243 for that in which i have also used for deer as well as it would be good for the antelope as well so it basically boils down to personal preferance


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

I have been playing with a 270 WSM that I really like but for a beginner i would have to agree with the 30-06, or 270. As for a make of gun be sure you check out Savage Rifles. They arre not as pretty as some but they flat out shoot. I don't think for out of the box accuracy you can't go wrong with the Savage.

Mark


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## gitterdone81 (Sep 3, 2009)

Thanks everyone. 

As for the Savage - even the cheaper models that you see sometimes at Cabela's?

Probably leaning towards the 30-06 or 7MM based upon this forum and a brother in law who is pretty knowledgeable.

What about bolt-action vs semi-automatic? As a non-rifle hunter I think semi-automatic "just in case you need to get another one off." At the same time, with a Bow I am used to many times only having one shot.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Bolt vs. semi, both have their pros and cons. There are bolt actions aplenty out there in 30-06 and 7mm, but less offerings in a semi-auto. The autos will also start at a higher price point than a bolt. You'll get some varying opinions, but bolt actions are generally considered more accurate and more reliable than a semi-auto.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

Many of the semi autos out there can be just as accurate as a bolt action (unless you are looking for MOAs on paper), but I would stick to bolt action just because of reliability and ease of maintenance. All semi-autos have a higher tendency to jam and they have many more little moving parts to clean. With a little practice, you can work a bolt fast enough to get a second shot just fine. For me, it is habit to slide another shell in as soon as I shoot, I don't even have to think about it. By the time I realize I need that follow-up shot it's ready to go.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

gitterdone81 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> *As for the Savage - even the cheaper models that you see sometimes at Cabela's?
> *
> ...


Yes! Even those. I don't know about their new one called the "Edge" but the 110 series is great.

I think the bolt action will generally be more accurate, and you can still reload pretty fast. If you have a semi auto, it might be a little easier to get trigger happy and take careless shots, but I have never used a semi auto for big game, but I am sure a few dudes on here have more experience with them.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

I've heard a lot of good reviews about that Savage Edge. I usually wait at least a year on these things to see if there are any bugs to work out and get more unbiased reviews, but I may just take a chance on one of these. Cabela's has the all black for $259 right now, or the camo with a scope for $329.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Wind In His Hair said:


> I've heard a lot of good reviews about that Savage Edge. I usually wait at least a year on these things to see if there are any bugs to work out and get more unbiased reviews, but I may just take a chance on one of these. Cabela's has the all black for $259 right now, or the camo with a scope for $329.


Buy one and tell us how it shoots, brother!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have no experience with any of the non accutrigger savages; I really like the accutrigger, w/o it I don't know that I would be so hot about savage IMHO.


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## flyfisher117 (Jun 29, 2009)

I say the .30-06 will be the best all around deer/elk gun because its cheap and is a very common round.

as far as is a .22 enough for coyotes? it depends are we talking just a .22lr? then id say no unless you are trapping and able to walk right up and shoot the coyote in the head. now if you mean the .22 caliber like a .223, .220 swift, .22-250 etc then yes thats perfect.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Huge29 said:


> I have no experience with any of the non accutrigger savages; I really like the accutrigger, w/o it I don't know that I would be so hot about savage IMHO.


I used to have one of the pre-Accutrigger Savages in .17 HMR and one in .300 WM. Both were tackdrivers, especially considering the price. Savage were accurate out of the box before the Accutrigger came out. The Stevens rifles, which are just the old Savages rebadged, are pretty dang good too. Ugly, but accurate. My buddy has one in .22-250 and uses it in our games of left eye/right eye.



lehi said:


> Wind In His Hair said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard a lot of good reviews about that Savage Edge. I usually wait at least a year on these things to see if there are any bugs to work out and get more unbiased reviews, but I may just take a chance on one of these. Cabela's has the all black for $259 right now, or the camo with a scope for $329.
> ...


.

I'm seriously giving it some thought. Can't decide on a caliber. I don't have a .243, .25-06, or 7mm-08 currently in my stable.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

lehi said:


> Wind In His Hair said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard a lot of good reviews about that Savage Edge. I usually wait at least a year on these things to see if there are any bugs to work out and get more unbiased reviews, but I may just take a chance on one of these. Cabela's has the all black for $259 right now, or the camo with a scope for $329.
> ...


I know a guy that bought one in a 22-250 and another in 223 and they both shoot great in fact he can hold tighter groups at 100 yards than his son that has a 22-250 in Remington 700 sps. 
They seem to be great guns. I'm thinking of getting the 7mm-08 for the wife.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

mikevanwilder said:


> lehi said:
> 
> 
> > Wind In His Hair said:
> ...


I bought one in a 223 last week. I have put 60 rounds through it (factory loads nothing fancy) to date. It does have a heavy trigger pull, but I picked one that was pretty smooth (not much creep). The weak point that I noticed was if you were benched and support at both ends, that there was some flexing at the grip at the trigger. The way that they have designed the trigger guard causes flexing as you try to pull the heavy trigger. I was able to shoot 1" groups and at times have rounds touching. For not using hand loads I was pretty happy.


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## gitterdone81 (Sep 3, 2009)

I went and looked at some at Sportsman's just to get a feel. They didn't have the savage but they had a remington combo very similarly priced. I know if I ask which is better, remington vs savage, it very well could just go in circles. As I am looking, especially if I look for a used rifle are there tiers of brands? Obviously you have seen my price point - so maybe Remington, Weatherby and Savage are in Tier one, and rossi is a stay away? Hopefully that makes sense. I don't know enough to know exactly what to check out on a used gun - but if there are brands that tend to be more steady regardless of care that would be great to know.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I was just reading yet another article, expousing the Remington 700 as the best production rifle ever made. And was looking at a Remington model 700, in 30-06, in the walmart cabinet in Layton for $397. Black synthetic stock, brand new. And if you wanted to go with a camo-stock version, $427. Both with 3x9 x 40 scopes. 

With such great deals on either the Remington or Savage - in the $400 range for brand new - there is no way I'd buy a used one right now.


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## thrillseaker (Sep 26, 2010)

my main hunting rifle is a savage 110E that I have had since the early 80s and it has been a good rifle for me, I also read an artical about the savage shoting team, it said savage gave them rifles right off the line and they have been winning compation with them.like everyone has said 30-06 and 270 are very prevelant and ez to find.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

gitterdone81 said:


> I went and looked at some at Sportsman's just to get a feel. They didn't have the savage but they had a remington combo very similarly priced. I know if I ask which is better, remington vs savage, it very well could just go in circles. As I am looking, especially if I look for a used rifle are there tiers of brands? Obviously you have seen my price point - so maybe Remington, Weatherby and Savage are in Tier one, and rossi is a stay away? Hopefully that makes sense. I don't know enough to know exactly what to check out on a used gun - but if there are brands that tend to be more steady regardless of care that would be great to know.


I'm going to second what Gary Fish said about buying new vs. used. There are just so many bargains out there on the new stuff. Not that you can't get a good deal or a good shooter by buying used, but there are things to watch for. This is a pretty good article on what to look for in a used rifle. http://www.chuckhawks.com/used_rifle.htm

One thing to to consider is that most companies only warranty the firearm to the original owner. If you are the second owner and any problems arise then you get to pay to fix it.

How much do you want to spend on a rifle and a scope put together?

Do you remember the model of Remington you looked at? If it was the 770 I would suggest to spend a little more and get a 700 instead.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Yeah,, stay away from the 770 and get a 700 for sure!!


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## Dannyboy (Oct 27, 2010)

I own a Savage 7mm mag bolt action and it is a great gun and cheap. So if that is the way you are leaning then you won't go wrong. Most of the rifles everyone is suggesting you can't go wrong with.


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