# Kind of dream thinking about shot guns.



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

I have and old, really old, 11-87 Rem. that is very, very sensitive to re cycling problems, beat up, amongst other things. There is no question that I can make do and keep using it until I go into the nursing home, but, -------------- I can dream can't I?
Anyway, my dream kind of follows this line. If I were to buy another shot gun and sell the old blunderbuss, I would look at an over and under or side by side. I shoot mostly ducks now but still want to get back to upland if I can find any. My age is hampering me a bit. My thinking is - recycling problems would be virtually eliminated, they are much lighter and easier to lug around, I seldom take more than 2 shots, and when I take a third it's usually a through away, grit from the GSL, etc. would not hamper it's operation, and there just is much fewer things to break, malfunction, etc. Problem is, it seems like all the big name brands are way, way beyond my dreams for $, like Berrata, Browning, etc. Any ideas? Other brands, used sources, etc. It kind of scares me to look at used guns since I'm not sure of what I would be buying and whether or not I was buying a "lemon". Probably just dreaming,OK?


----------



## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Leaky....I doubt you're 11-87 is much older than 22 years old....  

I would guess it's an 1100 semi-auto...

If you're wanting to keep the price down a little, TriStar has a over & under for around 500 bucks. Remington 870 pumps can still be bought new at a reasonable price. 

If you've shot that 11-87 for so long, you should be very familiar with it and can probably shoot quite well, or very comfortably......why change ? Have you thought about having a gunsmith work it over a little ?


----------



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Sounds like the piston seal(s) needs replacing Leaky. Very common for the seals to go bad in well-used 11-87s. See: 



 I replaced a set in my brother's 11-87 just a couple of years ago.

They are $20 at Numrich. http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?c ... 1&mySort=2


----------



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

I bought it late 1988. Hey guys, I pretty much know what my problems are with it, ----- I think. I've replaced the piston seal (O ring) now 3 times, and last spring replaced the entire seal assembly because of a chip in one of the metal seals. Besides that, the action spring and tube is very susceptible to dirt, residue, losing spring strength with age, etc, and I haven't been able to get it out and needs a gun smith to get it out. I've done the best I can to clean that area with a cleaning rod, etc. but and it's working ok for now. Like I said, the entire receiver area is susceptible to dust, salt, etc. Someday I'd like to get myself an over and under, I think. That was the purpose of the post and to get feed back on that thinking. As far as the Rem. pump, my buddy has had the same kind of problem, especially at the GSL with recycling. It gets a little frustrating when an auto. turns into a single shot then you have to tear it down and do a lot of work to start it working again, which I will continue to do until ---------------, I get a new/different shot gun like an over and under or double??? But I do appreciate any comment that will help.


----------



## TCSSPRO204 (Sep 27, 2008)

Leaky I just bought a Remington Spartin O/U at the end of the summer and I love it. It has 4 chokes and is a nice looking gun for the $! I paid 400$ new in box.


----------



## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Leaky said:


> I bought it late 1988. .


Sorry Leaky....I didn't mean to question or insult you, when you said you *'an old, really old 11-87'*, I didn't think a 22 year old shotgun was that 'old'.. :wink:

I can sure appreciate the problem....I remember hunting out there in the fog, dew and mist, my 1100 would grow rust spots in a matter of minutes. I spent more time cleaning that shot-gun than I did hunting.

I like your idea on an O/U...I've always wondered about the Stoeger Condor...they seem to be reasonably priced... :?


----------



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

TCSSPRO204 said:


> Leaky I just bought a Remington Spartin O/U at the end of the summer and I love it. It has 4 chokes and is a nice looking gun for the $! I paid 400$ new in box.


+1

This is a goodun Leaky


----------



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

TCSSPRO204 and wyogoob,
Don't know what I'm doing wrong but I tried finding the Remington Spartan O/U on the internet and all I could find was the Remington site and 28 gauge and 410?????? No 12's????  Anyway, If you know a source where I can get the particulars of the 12 gauge and buy, let me know.

.45 ,
Hey bud, not to worry!! :wink: As a matter of fact, I agree, I miss spoke. I've given mine a lot of rough treatment and it's pretty beat up from falling in rocks, trees, etc. so since it's pretty much beat up, it seems old.  I've got ding and gouges all over it and even a bet stock which by chance is bent in the right direction for a more true line up with siting. I can shoot ok for an old duffer so when it's working it's good, a little heavy sometimes but that's not a big problem.It's the other stuff.


----------



## blackbear (Oct 18, 2007)

Leaky, come chase some rabbits with me and I'll let you shoot my 12ga. stoger condor o/u. I have so much fun with it, I sold my 870. I've used it on everything from swans to chipmunks. I think I paid $150 for it.


----------



## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Leaky don't overlook the Stoeger Uplander. (the double trigger model) I haven't heard good things about their single trigger models, I have heard from other reviews and other forum talk that they will fail after so much use, along with the CZ single trigger models. So I would stick with the double trigger. It is only about $330 new (the stoeger) and I think cal ranch sells them. The spartans I am not sure about, BUT. I did look on Remington's website and did not see any of the spartan models. So I am assuming they stopped putting their name on them and stopped importing them. But I am sure you can find one somewhere.


----------



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

lehi ,
That's very interesting. :shock: I had heard that the single trigger was preferred.  Now I'll have to re evaluate . Thanks Bud! No wonder I can't find anything on "Spartan". I thought maybe I was just being dumb on the internet.


----------



## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Personally, I sold my 12 ga. semi-auto and pump shotguns. I purchased a Ruger Red Label that was used for around $400 and it didnt take long before that was the only one that made its way out of the gun cabinet for waterfowl and upland. It truly is a point and shoot gun. I dont ever remember "aiming" unless it is a long shot.

Stoeger O/U's are great and reasonably priced for new guns. My brother bought one and loves it. If you handle a new one at a shop do not be concerned if the break action is REALLY stiff. They take a couple boxes of shells shot through them to loosen up.

Keep an eye out on the KSL Classified Ads. O/U's will pop up all the time.


----------



## hemionus (Aug 23, 2009)

ask around, the cz's i think are the best gun for the money.

PM sent.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Heres the Spartans.
Looks like you can buy them here?
http://www.remington-spartan.com/catego ... n_310.aspx
Article praising them...
http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature0210.html

The shame will be taking it out to that stinky GSL to shoot those stinky spoonies with a brand new over under!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Here is a distributor for the Spartan from Davidsons, They are a great resource just to see prices and what is out there. Now on sale for $359. Someone had one on sale in the trading post for $300 not long ago.


----------



## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Here is a distributor for the Spartan from Davidsons, They are a great resource just to see prices and what is out there. Now on sale for $359. Someone had one on sale in the trading post for $300 not long ago.


Good find Huge29....good price too !!!


----------



## TCSSPRO204 (Sep 27, 2008)

.45 said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a distributor for the Spartan from Davidsons, They are a great resource just to see prices and what is out there. Now on sale for $359. Someone had one on sale in the trading post for $300 not long ago.
> ...


+ 1 on the good find  This is the exact gunt I bought and I would not think twice about buying anoter one. They do come with a lifetime warrenty as well!


----------



## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Leaky, 

Another suggestion. If you look on Cabelas gun library, you can often find some used Red labels or Citoris for a good price. Heck theres even some old Stevens or A.H fox models up for sale on there for good prices, once in a while, Ill bet those shoot really good. If theres a model you want, the Cabelas in Lehi can order one that might be at a different store in another state.

That is weird, I never saw a link on the official remington website called remington-spartan.com. I wonder if the distributor still has the rights to use "remington" on those guns, or I am just blind and can't find the link. :lol: They are Baikals I believe, someone correct me if im wrong. :? I have heard good things about them overall, but have seen reports of "lemons" among them, so be careful. 

Yeah Leaky, ask Zim too about the double trigger's vs single as far as the CZ's go, he has first hand experience with his Ringnecks single trigger mechanism failing him. They are still great guns by any means though. I'm sure if you looked on a few classifieds, Cabelas, or Gunsamerica.com you could find a good used Red Label.


----------



## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Old Stevens side-by-sides can be found for reasonable prices as well. Good shooters too.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> lehi ,
> That's very interesting. I had heard that the single trigger was preferred. Now I'll have to re evaluate . Thanks


Leaky, think of the triggers using the following logic:
Option #1- 1 trigger doing all the work (single trigger)
Option #2- 2 triggers dividing the trigger work to 50% for each trigger (double trigger)

Which option is going to have a longer trigger life? It becomes obvious that double trigger shotguns have longer life spans because the workload for each trigger is reduced by half. The mechanics in a double trigger gun are also simpler so they're less prone to breakage. The single trigger gun is preferred by many just because it's easier to use.


----------



## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Another thing that I have read on several different forums is that Turkish guns with single triggers are more likely to break just because the mechanism inside is more cheaply made.


----------



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

Well guys, I really appreciate the input. I have a lot to think about now along with internet comments and reviews of various o/u guns. To top it off, I just spent my saved $ on emergency plumbing problems this last week.  So now I have to save some more nickles.  
Anyway, I will continue to view this thread for more info. try to get down to Sportsmans for some hands on, hopefully, and continue my research. I'll post up when I have narrowed down my choices. Have a lot of questions/considerations to investigate, to include mechanical vs. inertial trigger activation, single vs, double trigger, safety/reset features, hand vs. auto shell ejection, length of barrel, where they are made, cost, etc., etc. One thing I am really reluctant to do is buy a used gun. Kind of like a used car, if you don't know what to look for and how to evaluate any problems that it might have, I get reluctant.
Maybe some rich, anomalous, person will donate one and put me out of my misery.  Yeah, just another dream. :lol:


----------



## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Leaky said:


> One thing I am really reluctant to do is buy a used gun. Kind of like a used car, if you don't know what to look for and how to evaluate any problems that it might have, I get reluctant.
> :lol:


Had the same feeling and then started to buy used guns. I have yet to buy a lemon. All have met or exceeded my expectations. Most guns for sale are for sale because they sit in a safe or closet and never get used. A guy thinks hey, I've got $500 just sitting there. The guys that shoot a their guns a lot, keep them because they have had great times together and think they will want to shoot them again.

Here is synopsis of my used gun buying guide. 
Look at the end of the barrel of a gun. A well used gun will have dings, dents, and scratches on the end of the barrel. It takes more abuse than any part of the gun. 
Look for any bulges or dents in the barrel on the inside and outside. Don't just take a quick look. Follow the barrel down on each side, the top and bottom. 
Take a flashlight and shine it through the barrel, you'll see any big scratches or rust inside of the barrel that way. If the gun hasn't been cleaned, ask to run a patch and some oil through the barrel so you can see the true condition. If it is still dirty, they might be trying to hide something. 
Cycle the action, and make sure it feels smooth. Take a couple of empties or new shells and load them up and unload them (with permission). 
Take an empty and dry fire the gun to make sure trigger function is working. 
Look for large dents on the stock or receiver. A gun that has a large dent has probably been dropped a time or two. 
But the best way to buy used is to meet at a location that you can fire the gun. Take a variety of loads and test it out. Make sure it feeds, cycles, hits what you're shooting at.


----------

