# Tell me about mud motors



## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

I have a 14' aluminum boat that I'd like to set up for duck hunting. I've been looking at mud motors and a longtail but I'm a little overwhelmed with trying to figure out how it works.

I've duck hunted for the last couple of seasons with some success but I'd like to get better at it. I think having a boat will help with that, as will a dog (hopefully in a couple months for next year).

Can you help me with some of the basics? What are these kits I'm seeing? Do I just buy a motor and then install the kit on it? Or do you buy a complete motor pre-built?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Buy a name brand motor that is completely built, warrantied and proven, or spend hours every season dicking around fixing the thing. There is no inexpensive way around it, you will pay one way or the other. My advice is pay it up front and enjoy the comfort of knowing the motor will get you there and back, and if a problem does arise the manufacture will be there to back it up.;-)


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## LNC (Jun 19, 2013)

+1 fowlmouth


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

What are the preferred brands? Also my boat days don't put anything bigger than a 15hp motor on it.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

Dodger said:


> What are the preferred brands? Also my boat days don't put anything bigger than a 15hp motor on it.


First off is your boat flat bottom jon boat or a deep v fishing boat.

what do you have to spend on a motor.

fowl mouth is right on getting something prebuilt, but I bought a named brand frame and installed the motor my self, But I am also very mechanically inclined and have the know how and the tools to do the job. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to put one together right. I also saved 600.00 doing it.

You can go with what you want but I like a light rig, they go anywhere. so a smaller motor hopped up will push you as fast as a bigger heavier motor setup. as long as you don't over load the boat.


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## duckilla (Nov 20, 2014)

I gotta disagree with fowlmouth while a name brand mud motor already built is a nice way to go it doesn't mean a motor with a mud kit on it isn't reliable and it can save you a lot of money especially if you are just getting into it for example a 16hp prebuilt motor brand new runs around 2800 depending who you go with my set up which is a 16hp duromax motor and a mud motor kit runs you around 1100 and I haven't had a single problem with it and is very reliable it just depends on what you want to spend.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

duckilla said:


> I gotta disagree with fowlmouth while a name brand mud motor already built is a nice way to go it doesn't mean a motor with a mud kit on it isn't reliable and it can save you a lot of money especially if you are just getting into it for example a 16hp prebuilt motor brand new runs around 2800 depending who you go with my set up which is a 16hp duromax motor and a mud motor kit runs you around 1100 and I haven't had a single problem with it and is very reliable it just depends on what you want to spend.


I would like to see your kit motor. I do agree you can save money doing it yourself but i haven't seen one of these knock off kits out in the swamp yet. Does it dig pretty good? Does it run fast since it doesn't have a cav plate? do you fight the motor while full throttle trying to keep it down in the water?
Thanks for any info you want to fill us in with.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

If you aren't looking to spend a ton of money then you are probably in the market for a longtail-personally I prefer them over surface drives anyway. When somebody asks me for an opinion on longtails, there is only 1 company that I will recommend wholeheartedly-Backwater. After running many other brands over the years, they are hands down the best engineered, smoothest running motor that I've ever used. I am currently running a Backwater Glider kit on my 12' sneak boat, the kit and a new 14hp Kohler motor set me back $1900 all up, and I've been really happy with it. That said I agree with Fowlmouth, just make sure you're buying from a company with a proven track record (Go Devil, Mudbuddy, Beavertail etc.) that will back up their product with a good warranty. I've also heard good things about Mayhem, they are local and seem to make a solid motor.

Also, and this is just my personal opinion, if you go with a kit don't be tempted to buy a Harbor Freight or Chinese clone motor to go with it. True, they are cheaper, but in the long run I have had much better luck with name-brand motors like Kohler, Briggs, etc. You will save a bit up front with a cheaper motor but in the long run a good engine with a good warranty will give you better service. As far as electric start, etc. goes it is nice to have but it also ties you to having a battery, which is extra cost and weight. I personally just go with pull start on motors 14hp and below. Any engine above 14hp is going to have a separate fuel tank, so you need to account for the cost of setting that up which isn't too bad.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

My boat is a deep v fishing boat. Budget wise, I like saving money where money can be saved. So budget can be whatever but I want to save where I can.

Thanks for your opinions. I'm happy to take any advice I can get.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Deep V will definitely tie you to a longtail-surface drives don't like V in a hull. I have run a longtail on a boat with a medium V in the transom and it did fine overall, a flat bottomed transom is best but you can make it work with a deeper V. It might take some messing around with the cavitation plate to make it run properly though. The thing about longtails is that if the cav plate isn't set up just right, and the motor isn't balanced properly, they can be a beast to drive. It's amazing how much having a properly set up motor can make driving it much easier.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Pumpgunner said:


> Deep V will definitely tie you to a longtail-surface drives don't like V in a hull. I have run a longtail on a boat with a medium V in the transom and it did fine overall, a flat bottomed transom is best but you can make it work with a deeper V. It might take some messing around with the cavitation plate to make it run properly though. The thing about longtails is that if the cav plate isn't set up just right, and the motor isn't balanced properly, they can be a beast to drive. It's amazing how much having a properly set up motor can make driving it much easier.


Pumpgunner, forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between a longtail and a surface drive?


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Longtail-









Surface drive-










2 different designs, both with different performance and handling characteristics. Longtails are a bit slower but less finicky and cheaper.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Gotcha. So why is a longtail more preferred for my style boat than a surface drive?


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

longtails can dig into the mud better. you can get into sallower, muddy places better. surface drives are built for speed, and they have a harder time getting going in really shallow muddy places (from what I hear)... I'v got a 1436 flat bottom with a 13hp longtail on it and it tears it up in the marsh


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Dodger said:


> Gotcha. So why is a longtail more preferred for my style boat than a surface drive?


For a surface drive to work properly, when it is trimmed up and running the top 1/3 or so of the prop will actually be out of the water-that's why they throw up such a large rooster tail. To make this happen a surface drive needs a clean flow of water into the prop, like you get with a flat bottom. A V hull will make a kind of hump in the boat's wake which buries the prop, turning your surface drive into an inefficient outboard motor. Longtails are designed to have the prop totally in the water, so the hump in the wake doesn't make as much of a difference. Honestly in our marshes I don't see much advantage in a surface drive, they are fun to run and go faster but a longtail will do everything a SD will and they are much less sensitive to how they are trimmed and how your boat is loaded. SD's can also have a hard time starting out in shallow water, for them to really come into their element they need to be up on a plane and if you can't get them up to speed you will just end up creeping along. A longtail you can just stick in and go.


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## freepunk (Sep 17, 2007)

Second pumpgunner. Bought a backwater swomp kit this season and I couldn't be happier. Jake's customer service and willingness to help or answer questions about his product is unreal. They shipped it to me setup for my 8hp but upgradeable to a 16hp if I feel the need. I enjoy the slow ride out in the marsh but if you need the speed go as big on the motor as you can afford.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Freepunk-glad you ended up with a Backwater in the long run! That glider kit is a fine unit indeed.


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## Cold Water Copper (Oct 10, 2014)

So I have to give a shout out to Jake from Backwater. I bought a SWOMP 23 at the start of season for a 15x42 jon boat. He is very knowledgeable, and answers the phone all day. I had a ton of questions and he was able to explain why which motor is best suited for what boat. After speaking with him about motors and boats I went away from the mod v style. Mostly as that is also better suited for deep water and will help with cuting through any rough water, jon boats not so much and can be swomped pretty easy. For the places I hunt I dont need a mod v. I have been very pleased with my set up. Empty I'm pushing two guys at 21 mph. I dont know where I am loaded up but for being my first boat I couldn't be happier. Great customer service!!! Now if I could find a sweet honey hole like goosefreak and fowlmouth I'd quit my day jobð


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## duckilla (Nov 20, 2014)

fish-n-fool said:
I would like to see your kit motor. I do agree you can save money doing it yourself but i haven't seen one of these knock off kits out in the swamp yet. Does it dig pretty good? Does it run fast since it doesn't have a cav plate? do you fight the motor while full throttle trying to keep it down in the water? Thanks for any info you want to fill us in with.



It digs pretty good I can take it anywhere my friend with a 16hp mayham can go yeah I can't just let go of the motor and it stay in the water like his but light pressure at full throttle and its just fine I'm not fighting it or anything i honestly think it gets the job done just fine there hasn't been anywhere in the marsh I haven't been able to go.


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## duckilla (Nov 20, 2014)

Sorry just signed up for this site so I haven't learned how to reply to someone's comments yet without copying it.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

duckilla said:


> Sorry just signed up for this site so I haven't learned how to reply to someone's comments yet without copying it.


 Just click on the "quote" box in the bottom right hand corner, and you will be good to go.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Pumpgunner said:


> If you aren't looking to spend a ton of money then you are probably in the market for a longtail-personally I prefer them over surface drives anyway. When somebody asks me for an opinion on longtails, there is only 1 company that I will recommend wholeheartedly-Backwater. After running many other brands over the years, they are hands down the best engineered, smoothest running motor that I've ever used. I am currently running a Backwater Glider kit on my 12' sneak boat, the kit and a new 14hp Kohler motor set me back $1900 all up, and I've been really happy with it. That said I agree with Fowlmouth, just make sure you're buying from a company with a proven track record (Go Devil, Mudbuddy, Beavertail etc.) that will back up their product with a good warranty. I've also heard good things about Mayhem, they are local and seem to make a solid motor.


I have heard of these mudmotors and I see their ads all the time. I got on their website and read that they fill their frames with foam to help dampen vibration, good idea. Here is the quote off their website "The DOM Tubular Frame design is super tough and foam filled with marine grade foam to keep moister out. The foam, adding rigidity to the already bullet proof tubular frame, also makes Backwater motors have much less vibration than a strap steel frame." 
Do these units still require the shaft and bearings to be greased regularly? If so, how does that work if the tube is filled with foam? Or is it just in the handle?


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## Cold Water Copper (Oct 10, 2014)

They have grease zerks which require maintenance every month. I can't speak for any of the other mm companies,but I can't say enough positive things about mine. I'm very happy with it.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Foam filled handle and frame........Okay that makes more sense. For some reason I was thinking the whole frame was foam filled. Great idea for sure, and I can see where that would really dampen vibration. They look like a nice mudmotor.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Fowl, the driveshaft is set up like any other motor, but the supporting tubes are the foam-filled ones. There is an upper and lower bearing unit that supports the shaft, and a single grease zerk on the shaft tube. Personally I think what sets them apart is their cavitation plate system-it's really easy to adjust with shims and once you're up and running I can actually run my motor hands off and it will track along nice and straight. They really aren't that different from any other longtail, just refined to the point that they are really smooth and pleasant to drive.


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## KennyC (Apr 28, 2010)

I am running a Utah Marsh Motor frame and this is my 3rd year. This is one of the best frames I have seen and run. There is no way I would invest $1,000+ on a mud motor. I also run a off brand motor and I can get anywhere I want. My setup NEW only cost me $550 for everything. Granted my motor is smaller than some but that is all I need. Look around and don't be afraid to go and talk to some of the dealers as well as builders. I can tell you who I would stay away from but only in person or via PM. Best of luck to you and enjoy hunting.


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## freepunk (Sep 17, 2007)

KennyC said:


> I am running a Utah Marsh Motor frame and this is my 3rd year. This is one of the best frames I have seen and run. There is no way I would invest $1,000+ on a mud motor. I also run a off brand motor and I can get anywhere I want. My setup NEW only cost me $550 for everything. Granted my motor is smaller than some but that is all I need. Look around and don't be afraid to go and talk to some of the dealers as well as builders. I can tell you who I would stay away from but only in person or via PM. Best of luck to you and enjoy hunting.


$550 for the frame and motor?


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

I've talked to Mark who builds Utah Marsh Motors several times, he's a good dude. If I remember right his setups run about $1700 or so with a Subaru motor.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

freepunk said:


> $550 for the frame and motor?


I'm going to be into mine $430 said and done motor and frame. Its a 6,5 hp but my boat is unique sorta so it will boogie. I will post pics end of next week.


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## duckilla (Nov 20, 2014)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> freepunk said:
> 
> 
> > $550 for the frame and motor?
> ...


Can you order just a frame from them guys? Already have a motor.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

+1 for mark at Utah marsh motors. Hes a good guy to deal with and works very hard to build a quality product. I also like my old godevil longtail and my newer mudbuddy surfacedrive. The surfacedrive is much faster than my old long tail but doesn't do as well in the shallow, sticky stuff.


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