# Pine valley dedicated hiker here. Looking to go 0-3



## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

I came on here last year looking for any direction I could get. I didn't get far, but figured I'd try again. This will be my 3rd year of dedicated hunter (or dedicated hiker as I call it). I've been out close to 70 days in the last 2 years. Haven't come across a decent buck once. Last year I saw some spikes and small forkies. I get out and hike as far away from roads as I can get...sometimes I hike so far I end up at another road even though it wasn't on OnX. 

I have hunted mostly on the south end of the unit (enterprise, pine valley, utah hill, pachoon flat, etc.) Been on bumblee a couple times. I am in st george so I dont know the northern part of the unit at all. I suffer from the fact that a large part of hunting is luck, because I'm one of those "if I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all" kind of people. I put in the work, but end up with no results. I can tell you were deer arent. If anyone has any ideas other than the typical ox valley, communication hill, atchison, grass valley, big mountain, blake and gubler, pilots peak and all the stuff already listed and in between I sure would appreciate any help. As I said in my post last year...not asking for a honey hole. Just need some direction. I seem to pick all the places where deer don't go.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Shoot a forky


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> Shoot a forky


I appreciate the advice, but aside from drought, too many tags and predators, i think too many people have followed that suggestion and thats a major reason why the buck population has decreased. As much as I want to fill a tag, I want more to give them young bucks a chance to grow. I'll pass them up and unfortunately, later hear shots. I'd put my kids on one for the experience, but for the most part I wish people would let them grow.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

On any general season unit in the state of Utah I would say that 90% of the hunters go home with a fork horn. While there are bigger bucks people don't want to wait it out, most only have the opening weekend to hunt it so the shoot the first legal buck that they see. 

To find mature bucks you are pretty much going to have to live on the unit. Find out where they are during the summer and watch them every week if not daily. Even in the LE units it is difficult to find a good mature buck if you don't do what I suggested. Some people luck out and go home with a good one but that is just what happened, they got lucky.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Critter said:


> On any general season unit in the state of Utah I would say that 90% of the hunters go home with a fork horn. While there are bigger bucks people don't want to wait it out, most only have the opening weekend to hunt it so the shoot the first legal buck that they see.
> 
> To find mature bucks you are pretty much going to have to live on the unit. Find out where they are during the summer and watch them every week if not daily. Even in the LE units it is difficult to find a good mature buck if you don't do what I suggested. Some people luck out and go home with a good one but that is just what happened, they got lucky.


I appreciate the input from someone with so much experience. I don't want to shoot a forked horn just to tag out. I see all the pics and hear all the stories of decent bucks and bigger. They seem so common I figured there was something wrong with me/what I am doing. I just figured my lifelong history of bad luck was pouring over into my hunting too. Not that I like hearing how hard it is, but its helpful to hear my experience normalized. I felt like I was working harder, but maybe not smarter. I guess the reality is if I'm not willing to shoot a forked horn, I'm more likely than not to end each season with tag soup. I prefer to give them a chance to mature. I'll just keep working hard and hope good luck crosses my path. Thanks.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

bsevans5 said:


> I appreciate the advice, but aside from drought, too many tags and predators, i think too many people have followed that suggestion and thats a major reason why the buck population has decreased. As much as I want to fill a tag, I want more to give them young bucks a chance to grow. I'll pass them up and unfortunately, later hear shots. I'd put my kids on one for the experience, but for the most part I wish people would let them grow.


I get that and appreciate it, gave the advice so you can get some success under your belt and build on it.

how much scouting have you done this year? What does your typical day hunting look like?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> I get that and appreciate it, gave the advice so you can get some success under your belt and build on it.
> 
> how much scouting have you done this year? What does your typical day hunting look like?


Good advice. I haven't made it out nearly as much as I wanted. tried to get out to scout, but the summer got away from me. Far more commitments came up than I anticipated. A typical day hunt starts real early. Drive to an unload spot. Hike in the dark to where I plan on glassing so I can be in the spot at first light. Glass for a good bit. If I see any movement I'll stay in that spot till I think anything would have bedded down and bail out return or go somewhere else in the afternoon to do it again. Sometimes if I don't see anything for a bit I'll hike somewhere else to glass the rest of the morning. Could be further in, higher up, to another draw/canyon/mountain face. Depends on where I went that day.

It gets hard after going out several days a week in the morning before work/evening after work and on the weekends. I really get discouraged because I don't know where to go. I get up and do it again even though I feel defeated because I'll lay in bed the night before after deciding to stay home and think, "well, there is 0 chance of finding one if I'm in bed" and then I get up and do it again, find nothing and wish I had stayed in bed and saved the gas money. I started going out with buddies and learning this unit 6 or 7 years ago. When I go to all the spots people tell me should have deer and see nothing I really get stuck trying to figure out where to go from there. I'm sitting in that spot right now...archery opener is a little over a week away and I haven't made a decision of where to go. I know all the spots I've tried in the past. They could hold deer this year, but if they are anything like the last 2, they won't. Haven't found any yet. So I start to question where to go. Maybe I'll look at the map and just try somewhere new, but when I do that I don't see anything and although I'm far away and don't see anyone else out there after my first thought of "yeah, I got away from hunters" my second thought is "well, maybe there are no hunters here because this is not a good spot. Maybe everyone is wondering why on earth I'd go here?" As you can see, i play a lot of mind games with myself. It complicates things just that much more.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

bsevans5 said:


> Good advice. I haven't made it out nearly as much as I wanted. tried to get out to scout, but the summer got away from me. Far more commitments came up than I anticipated. A typical day hunt starts real early. Drive to an unload spot. Hike in the dark to where I plan on glassing so I can be in the spot at first light. Glass for a good bit. If I see any movement I'll stay in that spot till I think anything would have bedded down and bail out return or go somewhere else in the afternoon to do it again. Sometimes if I don't see anything for a bit I'll hike somewhere else to glass the rest of the morning. Could be further in, higher up, to another draw/canyon/mountain face. Depends on where I went that day.
> 
> It gets hard after going out several days a week in the morning before work/evening after work and on the weekends. I really get discouraged because I don't know where to go. I get up and do it again even though I feel defeated because I'll lay in bed the night before after deciding to stay home and think, "well, there is 0 chance of finding one if I'm in bed" and then I get up and do it again, find nothing and wish I had stayed in bed and saved the gas money. I started going out with buddies and learning this unit 6 or 7 years ago. When I go to all the spots people tell me should have deer and see nothing I really get stuck trying to figure out where to go from there. I'm sitting in that spot right now...archery opener is a little over a week away and I haven't made a decision of where to go. I know all the spots I've tried in the past. They could hold deer this year, but if they are anything like the last 2, they won't. Haven't found any yet. So I start to question where to go. Maybe I'll look at the map and just try somewhere new, but when I do that I don't see anything and although I'm far away and don't see anyone else out there after my first thought of "yeah, I got away from hunters" my second thought is "well, maybe there are no hunters here because this is not a good spot. Maybe everyone is wondering why on earth I'd go here?" As you can see, i play a lot of mind games with myself. It complicates things just that much more.


you can be pessimistic but you can’t ever hunt like you’re pessimistic, if you do, you’ll hunt sh!tty and ruin opportunities or completely miss them. Don’t let your mind impact your actions.

also, you don’t always need to hike in super deep, I kill loads of animals in overlooked spots, animals will go where there’s no pressure, not just to the deepest darkest hole.
Change up your strategy a bit, maybe try walking in at first shooting light, not in the dark or don’t go in super deep and hit a few spots while they’re active.

try to get out before the season and find where they’re hanging out, or, in your case, use archery to scout. Find their bedding areas, where they like to feed, where they go when they’re pressured and active water sources, Then mark all of those spots and continue to keep an eye on them until you can get a shot.

Try still-hunting midday, I’ve killed animals this way, so have countless others. Plus, If you kick one up midday, mark it, it’s clearly a spot they like to bed


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I’ll leave you with this, holding out for a specific quality of deer is admirable and fun but, you have to be willing to eat tag soup If you go this route and you have to be OK with it.

I don’t know how long you’ve been hunting, I can only assume it’s not very long, only reason I bring this up, is because I feel there are unrealistic expectations New hunters have. You don’t start off harvesting trophy animals, it takes years and years of learning the animals behavior, the area you want to hunt, successes and failures before you start to be in that 5% class.

Hell, I’ve been hunting for years and don’t consider myself even close to that class and that’s with being successful on a regular basis


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Sounds like you need to approach your glassing differently. It seems you are just looking for movement. You’ll miss most of the deer that are there if you are looking just for movement.

I hunted some of the areas you listed last year. I can confirm there were deer there, and one VERY nice buck we saw from the road while looking at a decent sized 2-point deciding if we were going to shoot it. (We did not.) The big buck appeared and disappeared before we could even shoulder a rifle, and we couldn’t find him again, but we knew he was there. They don’t get big by being easily found.

It’s not really about how far you walk. Deer hunting very much is about working smarter. Sometimes that requires a long, hard walk. But success isn’t measured in miles most of the time.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

bsevans5 said:


> I appreciate the advice, but aside from drought, too many tags and predators, i think too many people have followed that suggestion and thats a major reason why the buck population has decreased. As much as I want to fill a tag, I want more to give them young bucks a chance to grow. I'll pass them up and unfortunately, later hear shots. I'd put my kids on one for the experience, but for the most part I wish people would let them grow.


Shooting forkies is less detrimental to the herd than shooting 2-4 year olds.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It probably doesn’t help to be hunting in one of the most struggling units in the state.
But if you are walking as much as it sounds like you need to learn how to look.
Glassing is a real skill to master.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I love hunting Bumblebee. If I had that tag, that's right where I'd be.

You can find plenty of stock deer just driving the main Bumblebee road. You might even luck into seeing a mature buck. I'd just go for some drives up there, find some areas holding plenty of deer, then find a spot to go for a hike. It seems like I could always find good bucks by just getting over the next hill away from the roads. Knowing water helps too -- unless we have a really wet August, like this year.



Honest question: If everyone passes up on forkies to "let them grow", and we all only shoot mature bucks (3-4points), won't the only bucks left be forkies?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> It’s not really about how far you walk. Deer hunting very much is about working smarter. Sometimes that requires a long, hard walk. But success isn’t measured in miles most of the time.


OP, This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this post. Sounds like a classic case of needing to work smarter, not harder. But I guess if you're going into it with the mentality that you're a dedicated hiker instead of a dedicated hunter, you're absolutely killing it! Instead of hiking all over creation, bring some good glass, find a good vantage point, and glass your balls off. My brother is a much more patient and thorough glasser than I am. I can't tell you how many times he has glassed up animals when my ADHD riddled a$$ had already decided there were no animals in the area. I'd bet a hefty sum there are good bucks in your area, but you aren't finding them because you are prioritizing getting your miles in over finding animals.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> you can be pessimistic but you can’t ever hunt like you’re pessimistic, if you do, you’ll hunt sh!tty and ruin opportunities or completely miss them. Don’t let your mind impact your actions.
> 
> also, you don’t always need to hike in super deep, I kill loads of animals in overlooked spots, animals will go where there’s no pressure, not just to the deepest darkest hole.
> Change up your strategy a bit, maybe try walking in at first shooting light, not in the dark or don’t go in super deep and hit a few spots while they’re active.
> ...


Great advice. I needed a fresh look. Thanks.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

colorcountrygunner said:


> OP, This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this post. Sounds like a classic case of needing to work smarter, not harder. But I guess if you're going into it with the mentality that you're a dedicated hiker instead of a dedicated hunter, you're absolutely killing it! Instead of hiking all over creation, bring some good glass, find a good vantage point, and glass your balls off. My brother is a much more patient and thorough glasser than I am. I can't tell you how many times he has glassed up animals when my ADHD riddled a$$ had already decided there were no animals in the area. I'd bet a hefty sum there are good bucks in your area, but you aren't finding them because you are prioritizing getting your miles in over finding animals.


Thank you. I appreciate the fresh look. I try to be patient, but maybe I'm not as patient as I think. I'll sit a spot for hours at times. by hiking I mean trying to get away from people, not hike while I glass, but I'm no expert hunter so I'll take all the feedback I can get. I'm always trying to learn and improve. That's why I appreciate forums like this.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> I love hunting Bumblebee. If I had that tag, that's right where I'd be.
> 
> You can find plenty of stock deer just driving the main Bumblebee road. You might even luck into seeing a mature buck. I'd just go for some drives up there, find some areas holding plenty of deer, then find a spot to go for a hike. It seems like I could always find good bucks by just getting over the next hill away from the roads. Knowing water helps too -- unless we have a really wet August, like this year.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. I really value others' perspectives. bumblebee is a mountain I'm not as familiar with. I know that means I need to get up there more and learn it. I struggle with hunting areas I know a little more and getting to know them more intricately vs going to an area I've never been and worrying I'm in the totally wrong spot. Regarding your honest question, I never thought of it that way. I'm not completely opposed to people harvesting young bucks. As I said, I think they are great for youth and people learning. I figured there was enough of a balance in age/experience that if people trying to get some learning under their belt were to harvest the young ones and not also seasoned hunters, that would leave more to mature. I remember last year during the muzzleloader I pasted by a handful of forked horns as I hiked further into a glassing spot and later hear 7 shots from the direction I came, where the young bucks were. I first wondered who was shooting a semi auto muzzleloader😆, was worried about how bad the animals may have been injured and left, and also wondered why people were so desperate, but I don't know their situation so I didn't judge, just kept on looking. 

Regardless, I find this a good opportunity to gain insight from others and it creates an chance for me to reflect, reevaluate, and hopefully improve as a hunter


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

bsevans5 said:


> Thank you. I appreciate the fresh look. I try to be patient, but maybe I'm not as patient as I think. I'll sit a spot for hours at times. by hiking I mean trying to get away from people, not hike while I glass, but I'm no expert hunter so I'll take all the feedback I can get. I'm always trying to learn and improve. That's why I appreciate forums like this.


I hear you. I think I'm patient too, but hunting with my brother shows me that I'm not. I have found one arrowhead in my entire life. My brother scoops them up like they are discarded beer cans. There are obviously a fair amount of arrowheads where I hunt, but an unobservant spaz like me doesn't find them often. If I can pitch in another 2 cents...I wouldn't consider an unsuccessful hunt a waste of time and gas or whatever you called it. The vast majority of my life is being wasted surrounded by concrete and asphalt. Time in the mountains should be cherished. Coming home with a punched tag is just the cherry on top.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Glassing isn't only about patience. Patience is needed, but there is more to the skill. Effectively glassing and breaking down a mountain side or canyon is a skill. I am not great at it, to be perfectly honest. I'm much better with my spotting scope than I am with my binos just because of the tripod and my method of breaking down a mountain. But I'm not a great glasser. Great glassers find way more animals than people willing to hike all over the mountain.

That's a fact.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Here is a thread you may find some hints: 









Glassing 101


I hear a lot of people tell new hunters when asking for help, just get out there and glass, glass, glass. To be honest, it's not that easy and most hunters that are just beginning will fail and not see much big game. You need to know how to look, where to look and when to look. Hopefully some...




www.utahwildlife.net


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Shooting forkies is less detrimental to the herd than shooting 2-4 year olds.


Have had this thought before, wasn't sure if it was true. If you are shooting the prime breeding bucks, rather than the tasty 1 year old deer, are you really helping? 

I'm not an expert so many grains of salt needed here. Grandpa taught us 2 point bucks and cow elk are the best tasting animals. We have no shame in shooting forkies for that reason.

For the OP, southern Utah deer herds are WAY down. And I get frustrated like this too as I'm no where near as experienced as I'd like to be. Keep at it and hunt hard, you will find the better deer if you keep looking.


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## elkhunterUT (Jan 21, 2008)

Are you glassing with your binoculars on a tripod? If not, you may want to add that to your equipment list. When I get to a good vantage point overlooking good country, I quickly glass open and more likely looking areas that might hold deer while holding my binoculars. Once I have made that pass, I then throw the binos on the tripod, sit down, and start picking apart all of the country in more detail and go much slower. You might also change your angle to glass directly into shade pockets as most deer will bed tight to cover with shade (also use a spotting scope to pick apart shade pockets).

If you are simply scanning country with your binos, you are likely overlooking animals. Find a good vantage, sit down, get your binos on a tripod, and glass until your eyes bleed 

Of course, none of this works if you are glassing areas that don't hold deer. Gotta pay the price and spend the time to find areas that hold animals.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

elkhunterUT said:


> Are you glassing with your binoculars on a tripod? If not, you may want to add that to your equipment list. When I get to a good vantage point overlooking good country, I quickly glass open and more likely looking areas that might hold deer while holding my binoculars. Once I have made that pass, I then throw the binos on the tripod, sit down, and start picking apart all of the country in more detail and go much slower. You might also change your angle to glass directly into shade pockets as most deer will bed tight to cover with shade (also use a spotting scope to pick apart shade pockets).
> 
> If you are simply scanning country with your binos, you are likely overlooking animals. Find a good vantage, sit down, get your binos on a tripod, and glass until your eyes bleed
> 
> Of course, none of this works if you are glassing areas that don't hold deer. Gotta pay the price and spend the time to find areas that hold animals.


Thanks for the tip. I take bino (free hand) and a spotting scope with me. I've thought about putting my binos on a tripod. They're just 10x42, so I use both them and a spotting scope


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Since you’re a bit late for scouting, go drive around in the mornings and evenings, see what you can see from the road, find spots you can glass from your vehicle


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> Since you’re a bit late for scouting, go drive around in the mornings and evenings, see what you can see from the road, find spots you can glass from your vehicle


I'll certainly give it a shot. I really haven't done much "road hunting" ever. I'm always on the lookout when going to or leaving and area, but the guys I learned to hunt from are part mountain goat and taught me to hike and get as far away from people as possible. Not being a lifelong hunter and picking it up in the last decade I sometimes worry I'm just picking all the wrong places to hunt. Last year I hiked miles up a mountain, found a meadow with fresh tall grass that looked like it had a burn a couple years before. Looked like it should have been a deer mecca. No tracks of people, cows, deer or any other animal. Pristine. The kind of thing you imagine to be a deer paradise. Far from people, plenty of feed, cool, high, but nothing. Not even sign. I have far too many of those experiences that make me question what I'm doing. I like the encouragement to get out and keep at it. Thanks to everyone.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

bsevans5 said:


> Not being a lifelong hunter and picking it up in the last decade I sometimes worry I'm just picking all the wrong places to hunt.


Every guy that has a honey hole probably spent a good bit of time wandering around in no man's land for awhile before he found that ace in the hole. All you can do is keep at it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Many years ago I wanted to explore a new area in my unit that I had never been. I found a place on maps that was a large area surrounded by roads that dropped into several big canyons. I figured once the armies of road hunters showed up and some shots started flying, deer would flock to this area for safety and security. I hiked 6 miles and was in a very good place to see a ton of country. I spent the full morning there until after lunch, and didn't see a single deer. I hiked out in the heat of the day and saw multiple deer mere feet from the parking area near my truck. Go figure... 

You've been given some great advice in this thread. I do think you need to rethink how you're doing things. That is up to you to decide.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> Many years ago I wanted to explore a new area in my unit that I had never been. I found a place on maps that was a large area surrounded by roads that dropped into several big canyons. I figured once the armies of road hunters showed up and some shots started flying, deer would flock to this area for safety and security. I hiked 6 miles and was in a very good place to see a ton of country. I spent the full morning there until after lunch, and didn't see a single deer. I hiked out in the heat of the day and saw multiple deer mere feet from the parking area near my truck. Go figure...
> 
> You've been given some great advice in this thread. I do think you need to rethink how you're doing things. That is up to you to decide.


Thanks for sharing that experience. I agree, there is some great advice here. I really appreciate the support and encouragement of members to keep at it...and maybe change it up some. I hesitate sometimes to ask questions because I've done it on forums where the keyboard warriors attack, but this has been a good supportive experience. Thanks to all


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

If I were in your shoes, I would spend more time driving the dirt roads on the unit and looking for areas that seemed to hold a lot of deer. I think if you find good numbers of deer that you could potentially find some mature bucks. Find where the deer are hanging out and then start glassing that area.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Wyo2ut said:


> If I were in your shoes, I would spend more time driving the dirt roads on the unit and looking for areas that seemed to hold a lot of deer. I think if you find good numbers of deer that you could potentially find some mature bucks. Find where the deer are hanging out and then start glassing that area.


thanks. I did see more deer last year than the previous year. I got excited at first, but when they were all does and spikes I realized that in the fall...the mature bucks don't really hang around them. I had been trained by my mentors to get away from roads, but since its come up as a suggestion a couple times in this thread, i'm thinking that might be something to try more of


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

While driving around stop and glass the sagebrush along the treeline and not just the green meadows. Once you find some does glass into the trees on the edge. Bigger bucks will hang back and a lot of times they won't step out until almost dark

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

You really do need to rethink your tactics here, especially since you’re not even getting into deer. Nothing will change if you don’t change your approach


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

By the way,this buck was hanging with the does during the muzzle loader season.









Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> You really do need to rethink your tactics here, especially since you’re not even getting into deer. Nothing will change if you don’t change your approach


Will do Ray. Looking to improve each time I go out. Mostly just doing what the hunters I learned from taught me to do. Sounds like glassing from the road is a good place to start as its been mentioned a handful of times. Any other suggestions? Like I said, I am definitely open to learning and improving. I try to soak up whatever advice I can get. I'm not too proud to admit I'm wrong/need improvement


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

You’re trying to cover too much ground without looking it over throughly. Find a vantage point and plant your azz there. Sit there all day if you feel like something big could be in the area. I’ve sat for days in the same spot glassing and picking apart every brush and tree patch that I could because I knew big deer liked that area. Mid morning of day 4, I found what I was looking for. Once you find a spot big deer like to be, they are there for a reason. Get that location nailed down and it could produce big deer for you almost every year. Just because you can’t see them, doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Slow down. Learn how to use your glass. Let the glass cover the miles for you, instead of your boots.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> You’re trying to cover too much ground without looking it over throughly. Find a vantage point and plant your azz there. Sit there all day if you feel like something big could be in the area. I’ve sat for days in the same spot glassing and picking apart every brush and tree patch that I could because I knew big deer liked that area. Mid morning of day 4, I found what I was looking for. Once you find a spot big deer like to be, they are there for a reason. Get that location nailed down and it could produce big deer for you almost every year. Just because you can’t see them, doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Slow down. Learn how to use your glass. Let the glass cover the miles for you, instead of your boots.


Thanks moosemeat. I will figure out how to best implement that advice. I guess my biggest issue is doubting whether or not i'm in places where big deer might be. Not seeing them I question whether there are any in there. I guess I need to learn the balance between putting enough time in a spot to find the deer like you are talking about, but also not wasting time in an area where there are no deer. I'm guessing it just takes time. I think I sometimes get in that panic..."if I sit here and never find anything...I've wasted time when I should have been somewhere else. And if so, where is that somewhere else?" I'll keep at it. I appreciate the input


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

I will say that last year was a rough hunt on the pine valley unit. I hunted an area that has always held mature bucks for 5 days and only saw 2 forkies.

I also saw way less deer hanging in camps or on the back of vehicles. The biggest deer I personally saw last year was a 3x3 on the back of a rhino.

I really think the unit is suffering.


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## widget22 (Mar 10, 2016)

I finished my dedicated hunter in PV unit last year. The herd was definitely shrinking a bit more every year I hunted but I was always able to find bucks. as others have said, slow down, use a tripod for your bino's and let your glass do the walking. I have hunted most of the areas you mentioned in your first post and killed bucks in several of those areas. I don't kill big bucks, usually 3.5 yr old deer that are usually 4pts. I killed a 150" 4 point last year during the rifle and found a similar sized buck during the archery in a different area. I've seen a couple real nice bucks that from early sept.-mid oct. never move more than 200-300 yards. that "somewhere else" you might need to look, could be the next ridge or bowl over. the better glassing vantage point you can get will allow you to cover more ground. mid morning deer will get up to move to a new bedding area in shade as the sun moves. just keep at it and stay positive.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

bsevans5 said:


> Thanks moosemeat. I will figure out how to best implement that advice. I guess my biggest issue is doubting whether or not i'm in places where big deer might be. Not seeing them I question whether there are any in there. I guess I need to learn the balance between putting enough time in a spot to find the deer like you are talking about, but also not wasting time in an area where there are no deer. I'm guessing it just takes time. I think I sometimes get in that panic..."if I sit here and never find anything...I've wasted time when I should have been somewhere else. And if so, where is that somewhere else?" I'll keep at it. I appreciate the input


This is where scouting and investing many years into the same area comes in to play. A guy that spends 15 years in a so/so spot with likely have greater success on bigger and more animals than a guy who bounces around during the same time hunting better spots and switching every year. Big deer are there. They are on every unit and there’s far more than people think. They can’t find them from the roads or can’t find them opening morning and immediately go to the conclusion that they are all gone and we needs to make XXXXXXXX changes so THEY can have better odds at finding a deer. People have really forgotten about the “hunt” part in hunting. Yes some come much easier than others, but most you really have to earn before you can get an opportunity at one


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> This is where scouting and investing many years into the same area comes in to play. A guy that spends 15 years in a so/so spot with likely have greater success on bigger and more animals than a guy who bounces around during the same time hunting better spots and switching every year. Big deer are there. They are on every unit and there’s far more than people think. They can’t find them from the roads or can’t find them opening morning and immediately go to the conclusion that they are all gone and we needs to make XXXXXXXX changes so THEY can have better odds at finding a deer. People have really forgotten about the “hunt” part in hunting. Yes some come much easier than others, but most you really have to earn before you can get an opportunity at one


I appreciate it moosemeat. I am certainly trying to put in the time to learn. It does feel overwhelming in a unit that has so much country. I've been back to some spots time and time again because they historically hold deer. I've been to new to me spots multiple times to try and learn them better. I'm also working to learn their patterns across the seasons. I envy people that grew up doing this and have generations of experience on the unit to access. I hope by putting in the time, I can start that for my kids as they get into hunting.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

bsevans5 said:


> I appreciate it moosemeat. I am certainly trying to put in the time to learn. It does feel overwhelming in a unit that has so much country. I've been back to some spots time and time again because they historically hold deer. I've been to new to me spots multiple times to try and learn them better. I'm also working to learn their patterns across the seasons. I envy people that grew up doing this and have generations of experience on the unit to access. I hope by putting in the time, I can start that for my kids as they get into hunting.


I can relate to what you are saying here. I grew up obsessed with hunting and fishing but also raised by a single mother and poor was an understatement. I had a rifle deer tag at 14 and rode in my uncles truck for the weekend and didn't see any bucks. That was all the experience I got until I was in my mid 20's. Now I'm 31, getting it kinda figured out. Have a Turkey, archery buck, and archery cow elk I've been able to take in the last 7 years and if my hunting journey doesn't get me anything else, I hope I can put my kids on the path I wished I had as a youngster. Keep at it.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Don't get discouraged. It's hard not to, I admit.

I have been hunting since before I could walk and I did not shoot my first deer until I was 19. True story.

When I used to check in after a day on the mountain, I'd report about how many doe I saw. Never any bucks.

My dad told me "you're being quiet enough to see deer, just not quiet enough to see bucks." 

I don't know how true that was but I have found that quietly sitting still provides more opportunities for a shot than hiking around ever did.

Hiking is a way for me to get to the next spot to sit down and be quiet.

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

KineKilla said:


> Don't get discouraged. It's hard not to, I admit.
> 
> I have been hunting since before I could walk and I did not shoot my first deer until I was 19. True story.
> 
> ...


It took me a few years to figure this out. Hiking and glassing is great for locating but if you want to talk shot opportunities, sitting quietly for hours on a game trail has worked best.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

KineKilla said:


> Don't get discouraged. It's hard not to, I admit.
> 
> I have been hunting since before I could walk and I did not shoot my first deer until I was 19. True story.
> 
> ...


I may have not been clear in my initial post because several people have responded ad though they thought I was saying I hike around and glass at the same time. That's not what I meant. I hike far to get away from people and find a spot to glass and sit there for hours sometimes. If I'm just not seeing anything after a couple hours I may hike to another glassing spot, but while glassing I stay put. I'm not just hiking around all morning or evening and stopping periodically to glass


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

TPrawitt91 said:


> It took me a few years to figure this out. Hiking and glassing is great for locating but if you want to talk shot opportunities, sitting quietly for hours on a game trail has worked best.


I may have not been clear in my initial post because several people have responded ad though they thought I was saying I hike around and glass at the same time. That's not what I meant. I hike far to get away from people and find a spot to glass and sit there for hours sometimes. If I'm just not seeing anything after a couple hours I may hike to another glassing spot, but while glassing I stay put. I'm not just hiking around all morning or evening and stopping periodically to glass


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

At one time I thought that I was a great still hunter during archery season, that was until I hunted with a very successful archery hunter. We were both hiking out a canyon on opposite sides. On my way through I saw a number of bucks but nothing to get excited over. I got to our meeting place and my partner wasn't there. I waited for 3 hours before he showed up.

He taught me that when walking through trees to take a step and then look, not just for the animals but something out of place like their legs instead of their bodies. Once I started doing that I started seeing more animals.

Also when glassing look for parallel lines to the ground and if you see one look even harder at it. Then when glassing a sagebrush flat look for ears twitching and or antler points just sticking up above the brush.

We killed a number of good bucks out where Soilder Creek Reservoir is now located when all it had out there was sagebrush and pockets of aspens.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Critter said:


> At one time I thought that I was a great still hunter during archery season, that was until I hunted with a very successful archery hunter. We were both hiking out a canyon on opposite sides. On my way through I saw a number of bucks but nothing to get excited over. I got to our meeting place and my partner wasn't there. I waited for 3 hours before he showed up.
> 
> He taught me that when walking through trees to take a step and then look, not just for the animals but something out of place like their legs instead of their bodies. Once I started doing that I started seeing more animals.
> 
> ...


Great feedback. Thanks!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

bsevans5 said:


> I may have not been clear in my initial post because several people have responded ad though they thought I was saying I hike around and glass at the same time.


Nope, I don’t think anyone thought you were glassing and hiking at the same time. You’re misunderstanding the good advice you’ve been given. What you’re being told is hike less, glass more. That’s it. If you want to find more deer and bigger deer, stop hiking so much and start glassing more and more effectively. Unless you’re really just a dedicated hiker, as you mentioned. Then go hike your butt off and enjoy the time outside.


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## Pokesmole (Oct 29, 2016)

I’ve had similar struggles. After finishing my dedicated hunter last year, I ended up one for three. I shot a small buck year two after a handful of missed opportunities on the big ones. I’ve learned that glassing is truly an art. Before the first year I would just hike and hike and hike and hope to get a shot. Ended up scaring many deer a lot of them being good bucks. Year 2, I put my binos on a Tripod. And deer began appearing. Even though they were probably there all along. Getting a very steady rest and just watching will bring up the animals. Find an area with tracks, get a vantage point and just watch.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

bsevans5 said:


> I may have not been clear in my initial post because several people have responded ad though they thought I was saying I hike around and glass at the same time. That's not what I meant. I hike far to get away from people and find a spot to glass and sit there for hours sometimes. If I'm just not seeing anything after a couple hours I may hike to another glassing spot, but while glassing I stay put. I'm not just hiking around all morning or evening and stopping periodically to glass


Just do this very simple thing if you want to know your area is productive:
First, and most important-
Make sure you have ZERO firearms on you or in your vehicle.
An hour or two after sundown use a high powered spotlight and drive roads slowly while ‘glassing’ with your light.
If you hike in you can easily take in a rechargeable spotlight or two.
Totally legal.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> Nope, I don’t think anyone thought you were glassing and hiking at the same time. You’re misunderstanding the good advice you’ve been given. What you’re being told is hike less, glass more. That’s it. If you want to find more deer and bigger deer, stop hiking so much and start glassing more and more effectively. Unless you’re really just a dedicated hiker, as you mentioned. Then go hike your butt off and enjoy the time outside.


Ok. Thanks for clarifying. So are people suggesting not trying to get so far away from roads and people? I hike to try and get remote and then glass for hours. Is the advice to spend less time getting far from roads?


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

Remember, though, it doesn't matter how long you sit and glass...if you are in an area that doesn't hold a lot of deer or bucks, you won't find them. The key, first, is find where deer and especially bucks are holding.

For me, this has always meant boots to the ground or time spent driving roads.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Wyo2ut said:


> Remember, though, it doesn't matter how long you sit and glass...if you are in an area that doesn't hold a lot of deer or bucks, you won't find them. The key, first, is find where deer and especially bucks are holding.
> 
> For me, this has always meant boots to the ground or time spent driving roads.


I'd say this is always my biggest fear. Going to areas where there are no deer. Are there deer and I'm just not seeing them? or are there no deer here? Its a nasty mind game


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It would depend on the area and terrain. But if if I have a choice when learning an area I'll pick driving to observation points first over hiking anywhere. You cover much more ground faster. I like to think the law of averages allows you to see more animals.

But I do appreciate those that like to hike in deep.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

middlefork said:


> It would depend on the area and terrain. But if if I have a choice when learning an area I'll pick driving to observation points first over hiking anywhere. You cover much more ground faster. I like to think the law of averages allows you to see more animals.
> 
> But I do appreciate those that like to hike in deep.


that's a good point. I hadn't thought of driving as a way to cover more ground just to get a general lay of the land. The guys I've learned hunting from just get to an unloading spot and then hoof it in as deep/far away from roads as they can get


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

A lot of deer are killed alongside busy roads. I have found that you don't always have to be miles from a road to find a deer.

It's amazing what can be found just a 1/4 mile from a road or parking area sometimes. Animals seem to sense when they are out of sight from people and behave quite differently when they think they're safe.

Some of the best bucks I saw last year were within 300yds of a very busy road. Just over a hill, out of sight from the vehicles. 

Don't rule out the deer that like to hide in plain sight.

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

bsevans5 said:


> I'd say this is always my biggest fear. Going to areas where there are no deer. Are there deer and I'm just not seeing them? or are there no deer here? Its a nasty mind game


If you are observing an area at prime times--first light and last light--and not seeing deer, move on.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

bsevans5 said:


> that's a good point. I hadn't thought of driving as a way to cover more ground just to get a general lay of the land. The guys I've learned hunting from just get to an unloading spot and then hoof it in as deep/far away from roads as they can get


You “ hadn’t thought of driving as a way to cover more ground just to get a general lay of the land”?
Mockingjay, is that you?
I think I’m done with this thread….


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

I’m not familiar with the Pine Valley unit, but the unit I often hunt has more deer in town than on the mountain (at least in October). I’d go for days hunting up on top and not see much. Then I drive near the farmers fields in town after dark and see hundreds of deer feeding in the fields. They seem to like bedding on the foothills during they day, then feeding in the farms at night. Hiking into no man’s land isn’t always the answer with deer.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MrShane said:


> You “ hadn’t thought of driving as a way to cover more ground just to get a general lay of the land”?
> Mockingjay, is that you?
> I think I’m done with this thread….


I know it may sound silly, but I'm sure there have been areas in your life when you've been stuck in a certain pattern and didn't think of simple solutions. I have learned to hunt from guys that hike as far away from people as they can get, so as I've gone out on my own I've done the same. That is what I was taught to do. I will hike far into an area to learn it. I haven't done a lot of driving around in terms of learning more area because I wasn't taught that way. I've driven to new places and then hiked, but not just cruised around just to get a lay of the land. sorry if that sounds dumb. Just trying to do what was modeled for me as I started to learn. I came here for other ideas. I've gotten them and I appreciate all the time people have spent responding to me.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

KineKilla said:


> A lot of deer are killed alongside busy roads. I have found that you don't always have to be miles from a road to find a deer.
> 
> It's amazing what can be found just a 1/4 mile from a road or parking area sometimes. Animals seem to sense when they are out of sight from people and behave quite differently when they think they're safe.
> 
> ...


It's the selenium.


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## jbseamus83 (Oct 5, 2021)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Have had this thought before, wasn't sure if it was true. If you are shooting the prime breeding bucks, rather than the tasty 1 year old deer, are you really helping?
> 
> I'm not an expert so many grains of salt needed here. Grandpa taught us 2 point bucks and cow elk are the best tasting animals. We have no shame in shooting forkies for that reason.


In David Petersen's book 'Heartsblood' he goes into some of the science behind shooting younger bucks and even fawns as a better option for increasing herd size. It's a great book. I certainly don't agree with him on a number of his opinions, but it will make you think long and hard about why you hunt and your morals and ethics behind it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You really have got some great ideas and help in this thread. Good luck implementing some new ideas. It will take time. Go get after it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Daisy said:


> It's the selenium.


But are the testicles descended?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

KineKilla said:


> Don't rule out the deer that like to hide in plain sight.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


I’ve hunted those deer before. Them old lady’s that feed those bucks all summer long from their bird feeders sure get pizzed when dudes in camo carrying bows show up!


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

bsevans5 said:


> Great advice. I needed a fresh look. Thanks.


If you can sit long enough to really glass then you can afford the added weight of a tripod. Shapes and movement really pop out when you stabilize your glass.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

bsevans5 said:


> I'd say this is always my biggest fear. Going to areas where there are no deer. Are there deer and I'm just not seeing them? or are there no deer here? Its a nasty mind game


If there are deer in an area they will leave tracks and fresh poop. If your not seeing fresh buck tracks and poops than move on.

That being said it is an art reading deer poop on the pine valley. Their little turds come out so dry they look a month old before they hit the ground😆


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

You’d have a pretty hard time finding an area that doesn’t have deer. Sure, some areas have way more deer than others, but I’ve yet to go anywhere in utah where I couldn’t find “deer”. (Except for swap Mesa on the Henry’s. Fugg that place). They might not be the deer you are looking for, but there’s always deer. Each unit will vary on the type of terrain, vegetation and places they prefer to stay in. That’s where your time and patience comes in to play. Invest the time, you’ll figure it out. Might take a couple years. Might take 10 years. I’m going on 27 years on the places and units I hunt and every year I still learn something new.

Never stop learning. (That could apply to all things in life)


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

A deep post by mm and now you’re getting so much good advice that the advisors are walking in circles. 

I was going to chime in last night but realized that everything I would say had been said 3 times already. 

I expect a 1/3 with your dedicated tag or you got some explaining to do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

APD said:


> If you can sit long enough to really glass then you can afford the added weight of a tripod. Shapes and movement really pop out when you stabilize your glass.


I carry my binos and a spotting scope


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> You’d have a pretty hard time finding an area that doesn’t have deer. Sure, some areas have way more deer than others, but I’ve yet to go anywhere in utah where I couldn’t find “deer”. (Except for swap Mesa on the Henry’s. Fugg that place). They might not be the deer you are looking for, but there’s always deer. Each unit will vary on the type of terrain, vegetation and places they prefer to stay in. That’s where your time and patience comes in to play. Invest the time, you’ll figure it out. Might take a couple years. Might take 10 years. I’m going on 27 years on the places and units I hunt and every year I still learn something new.
> 
> Never stop learning. (That could apply to all things in life)


That's the very reason I'm on here. I'm always trying to learn and become a better hunter.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

bsevans5 said:


> I know it may sound silly, but I'm sure there have been areas in your life when you've been stuck in a certain pattern and didn't think of simple solutions. I have learned to hunt from guys that hike as far away from people as they can get, so as I've gone out on my own I've done the same. That is what I was taught to do. I will hike far into an area to learn it. I haven't done a lot of driving around in terms of learning more area because I wasn't taught that way. I've driven to new places and then hiked, but not just cruised around just to get a lay of the land. sorry if that sounds dumb. Just trying to do what was modeled for me as I started to learn. I came here for other ideas. I've gotten them and I appreciate all the time people have spent responding to me.


IF you are legit, then apologies to you from me.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

bsevans5 said:


> I carry my binos and a spotting scope


With a tripod or are you hand holding them?

I dont bring the same setup on every hunt. Some hunts are in the trees and I'll wear 8x binos with no other aid. Areas with good vantage points will get more stabilization and higher power optics. My favorite setup is the spotter in the truck, 8x on the chest and something in between for verification on longer distances. Bring what you need for the style hunting you plan to do. The tiny granite peak tripod is great for when you won't bring a real tripod. Any other time use a real tripod.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I hate carrying a spotter with a passion. The extra weight isn’t worth it to me given the distance I was traveling to get to my hunt areas. For years I just carried 15x binos. They were awesome. Still felt like I could use a little more. I have 18x now. So far loving them.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> I hate carrying a spotter with a passion. The extra weight isn’t worth it to me given the distance I was traveling to get to my hunt areas. For years I just carried 15x binos. They were awesome. Still felt like I could use a little more. I have 18x now. So far loving them.


I hear what you're saying. Some days I've carried mine all day and never taken it out of my pack but then other days I've used it for hours and have got some great video footage through it. I personally use two spotting scopes. A 22-48x 65mm for scouting day hikes and a sub compact 15-30x50mm for hunting and overnight backcountry scouting trips.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

jbseamus83 said:


> In David Petersen's book 'Heartsblood' he goes into some of the science behind shooting younger bucks and even fawns as a better option for increasing herd size. It's a great book. I certainly don't agree with him on a number of his opinions, but it will make you think long and hard about why you hunt and your morals and ethics behind it.


I’ll have to read that, sounds interesting.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> I hate carrying a spotter with a passion. The extra weight isn’t worth it to me given the distance I was traveling to get to my hunt areas. For years I just carried 15x binos. They were awesome. Still felt like I could use a little more. I have 18x now. So far loving them.


Some of my hunting buddies have 15x and 18x binos. They've reduced the amount of time they use their spotters. Ive thought about bumping up but haven't pulled the trigger


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

If you have to sit for hours on end, using 15x binos on a tripod just to find some deer -- then you need to move on to a better location!!

Use the spotter on the tripod in areas YOU KNOW contain deer. Those spotters specialized equipment used to locate a _a specific animal that you are hunting_. They are not the solution to just finding deer! You need to find an area that has deer (first priority!). How are you going to do that? by continuing to hike miles into the backcountry to locations that you already know don't have deer? No. Like has been mentioned numerous times, you need to change your tactics. Figure out where the water and food is -- that might be from a remote spring, or it might be from the alfalfa pivot in the valley (ie:
Vandenberg road).

Leave all the spotting scopes, tripods, and hiking gear at home for a couple days. Jump in the truck. Go for a drive in the late afternoon. Stick to the roads, and just watch. Figure out where those deer are before you go for an expedition. *KISS -- keep it simple stupid. *

Here, go drive this road. if you can't find them on this road (which you will), then drive the Vandenbergh Road (google maps) in the late evening. That should give you a really good area to find a buck.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

You could also drive the road from New Harmony over to Pinto. Or the Pinto road from Pine Valley to highway 56. Again, you shouldn't have to go hike just to locate deer.

My favorite section of the Pine Valley unit is in Iron County.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> You could also drive the road from New Harmony over to Pinto. Or the Pinto road from Pine Valley to highway 56. Again, you shouldn't have to go hike just to locate deer.
> 
> My favorite section of the Pine Valley unit is in Iron County.


Thanks for the feedback PHB. I think I mentioned in a previous post that the Iron County side of the unit is not one I'm familiar with. I have spent a fair amount of time off the pinto road from the pine valley highway. I've hike into horse valley a number of times and there are a few spots I've gone to frequently because I see so much sign there...just never any deer. I've gone during all the seasons the last 2 years trying to find out when they are in there. A couple times I've seen a few deer, but they've been so far away I can't tell if they're does or bucks even with my spotting scope. I do appreciate all the great feedback from members on here. As I have said, I've just been hunting the way my mentors have taught me because its the only way I've known, but I can see there are other strategies and techniques that may be worth giving a shot. Last year a drove that road more than just hiking, but from all the responses, it sounds like I need to spend more time driving roads than I have in the past. I really genuinely am grateful for all the input.


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## prumpf (Apr 8, 2016)

KineKilla said:


> A lot of deer are killed alongside busy roads. I have found that you don't always have to be miles from a road to find a deer.
> 
> It's amazing what can be found just a 1/4 mile from a road or parking area sometimes. Animals seem to sense when they are out of sight from people and behave quite differently when they think they're safe.
> 
> ...


A lot of deer are killed on busy roads 😂


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

prumpf said:


> A lot of deer are killed on busy roads 😂


You're not wrong about that. My first year, I was hiking over a ridge to get to a small pocket of public land surrounded by private off highway 56. I heard a thwack as I was getting close to the top of the ridge. A few minutes later I heard a second thwack. Thought someone came along and hit the first deer again...nope, second deer. Glassed up a DWR truck hoisting a small 4 point. Kept going on to my spot. Glassed for the morning and headed back. When I got to the highway I saw three hunters breaking down the second deer. A 3 point. One of the guys was visiting his family in cedar. they all had tags, but he had to go back home out of state that day so they asked DNR if he could tag out on that one. They had been sitting on the edge of a field on the other side of the highway so when they heard it, they went to check it out. Crazy. I said back then maybe I should tether myself standing up in the bed of my truck with my bow in had and have my buddy drive up and down the highway and look for a buck. Maybe that isn't such a bad idea at this point 😆


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

I had a thought I wanted to bring up...does the season matter much in terms of deer being closer to the road? Since archery is obviously much longer of a season that the others, that is clearly where the bulk of my hunting days have come from each year. I get that it is a more difficult way to hunt (having to get in much closer to make an ethical shot), but would you say they are also less likely to be near roads because they tend to stick to higher elevations due to heat, or are they still found near traveled roads?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

You can definitely find bucks within a half mile of a road any time of the year but the chances of seeing a mature buck standing on the side of the road during hunting season is a very slim chance. They are smarter than that.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> You can definitely find bucks within a half mile of a road any time of the year but the chances of seeing a mature buck standing on the side of the road during hunting season is a very slim chance. They are smarter than that.


See.....I just don't know if I believe this. I see far too many mature bucks killed every year from people driving the roads. I don't know how to verify this -- I have no numbers. But I could sit here and post pictures of bucks shot right from the road.

I think sometimes, just like in this thread, we try to make this harder than it needs to be. We hike miles, and miles into the back country, because that's where the smart mature big bucks are. Only little bucks would be dumb enough to be close to a road.

My biggest 3 deer all came from driving down roads. The biggest? He was standing in the middle of highway 12. 🤷‍♂️ 

I'm not a road hunter -- but I cannot deny the effectiveness of road hunting.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

[Great UOTE="PBH, post: 2253245, member: 6433"]
See.....I just don't know if I believe this. I see far too many mature bucks killed every year from people driving the roads. I don't know how to verify this -- I have no numbers. But I could sit here and post pictures of bucks shot right from the road.

I think sometimes, just like in this thread, we try to make this harder than it needs to be. We hike miles, and miles into the back country, because that's where the smart mature big bucks are. Only little bucks would be dumb enough to be close to a road.

My biggest 3 deer all came from driving down roads. The biggest? He was standing in the middle of highway 12. 🤷‍♂️

I'm not a road hunter -- but I cannot deny the effectiveness of road hunting.
[/QUOTE]


PBH said:


> See.....I just don't know if I believe this. I see far too many mature bucks killed every year from people driving the roads. I don't know how to verify this -- I have no numbers. But I could sit here and post pictures of bucks shot right from the road.
> 
> I think sometimes, just like in this thread, we try to make this harder than it needs to be. We hike miles, and miles into the back country, because that's where the smart mature big bucks are. Only little bucks would be dumb enough to be close to a road.
> 
> ...


Great info. I think everyone should take up road hunting, it could be the new way of hunting.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

It's NOT a new way. It's been around forever !!
😁


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

This 6 x 8 spent most of the fall and winter of 2009 in my garden, ended up getting killed on I15, he would poke his head up over the fence and watch me go to my truck to go to work.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

bowgy said:


> This 6 x 8 spent most of the fall and winter of 2009 in my garden, ended up getting killed on I15, he would poke his head up over the fence and watch me go to my truck to go to work.
> View attachment 153067


City bucks don't count.😉


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I know of a 203” buck killed about 100 yards off Skyline Drive a few years ago.

It’s not common, but happens.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> City bucks don't count.😉


Don't call me city folk, I work for a living.  I live in the county, but with all the development Cedar City is getting too close.

I think he was displaced by the Pine Valley Mountain fire near New Harmony, we also had 2 wild turkeys show up and live at our place for a while. Roosted in our trees.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)




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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

Critter said:


> On any general season unit in the state of Utah I would say that 90% of the hunters go home with a fork horn. While there are bigger bucks people don't want to wait it out, most only have the opening weekend to hunt it so the shoot the first legal buck that they see.
> 
> To find mature bucks you are pretty much going to have to live on the unit. Find out where they are during the summer and watch them every week if not daily. Even in the LE units it is difficult to find a good mature buck if you don't do what I suggested. Some people luck out and go home with a good one but that is just what happened, they got lucky.


I hate being a contrarian, but I don't see much value here. 90% is a really bad guess. You can look up numbers for this. 70 days in 2 years is living on the unit. Pine Valley is a migration hunt. Although I know an archery hunter that consistently does well glassing, the most rifle successful hunters I know on that unit do not scout. They hunt the migration hard like a pack of wolves. Pine Valley was a lot better 3 years ago. I've heard one account that the DWR has wiped out the the agricultural herd between Quitchipa and New Harmony on the east side. I can't confirm that, but I can confirm that fields that used to have 300 deer every evening now have less than 5. The west side has been super dry the last two Springs. This doesn't bode well for new fawns.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

provider -- how did the DWR wipe out that herd? Were the biologists / CO's shooting all the deer? Just curious....


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

PBH said:


> provider -- how did the DWR wipe out that herd? Were the biologists / CO's shooting all the deer? Just curious....


That's the report I got. A resident of New Harmony told me they took out 150 and did similar in Quichipa. They dropped 4 deer off to him one night. I don't know him well, he may be full of crap. I do know that the amount of deer CO's culled out are not reported in the harvest reports. If you are familiar with the Bumblebee, you and I both know there is a fraction of the deer in the Quichipa hay fields as there were 3 years ago. Tons of deer after the 2018 season, so they weren't killed by hunters. They were gone by the next year.


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

Interesting exchange between PBH and Ridge. In PBH's behalf, one of my favorite places to hunt isn't far off of Hwy 12. I've seen more people score decent bucks on the roads and parking lot in that area than my party has tagged walking in. Conversely, I'm confident Ridge would not find the quality he has grown accustomed to by hunting the road.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

provider said:


> Interesting exchange between PBH and Ridge. In PBH's behalf, one of my favorite places to hunt isn't far off of Hwy 12. I've seen more people score decent bucks on the roads and parking lot in that area than my party has tagged walking in. Conversely, I'm confident Ridge would not find the quality he has grown accustomed to by hunting the road.


Is there a hwy 12 on the pine valley unit that I haven't heard of? I'm willing to bet a box of 6.5 prc bullets that bsevans5 will not kill a mature buck from the road while driving between new harmony and pinto. Even if he did it at least ten times during prime time hours. Although I did see a 28" wide 170" class buck standing in the middle of I-15 at black ridge at 5am one July morning a couple years ago. So it's possible that a mature buck can he killed close to a road or on it. 😔


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

ridgetop said:


> Is there a hwy 12 on the pine valley unit that I haven't heard of? I'm willing to bet a box of 6.5 prc bullets that bsevans5 will not kill a mature buck from the road while driving between new harmony and pinto. Even if he did it at least ten times during prime time hours. Although I did see a 28" wide 170" class buck standing in the middle of I-15 at black ridge at 5am one July morning a couple years ago. So it's possible that a mature buck can he killed close to a road or on it. 😔


Why did you have to monetize it? It's better when talk is cheap. I would not take that bet!! I drove part of the road to Pinto yesterday coincidentally. I have not seen a mature buck on there; but there are some stretches where the acorns are filling in nicely, maybe they will bring them in. I've got a first year hunter in the family and I'm personally discouraged with scouting this summer I've seen one good buck on public land. My go-to spots are dried up.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

provider said:


> My go-to spots are dried up.


The whole unit is dried up....


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

ns450f said:


> The whole unit is dried up....


Season update so far...been out quite a bit. tried some new areas. For having cut the tags in Pine Valley by a significant amount. I haven't looked it up, but I've heard somewhere between 50-60%, I've seen more hunters in the last few weeks than I would in all the seasons combined the last 2 years. Weird. Maybe that means I'm going to spots where people know deer are finally? 

I've seen deer every time I've got out. Does, fawns, and tiny 2s and 3s. Yesterday I hiked into a spot that was really hard to get to but not super far away from the areas I've seen other deer. My thought was, this is where the bigger bucks will be. Hardest hike of the season so far. Not. One. Deer. It was super discouraging. Could have gone back to places I've seen smaller deer or spent time with my family, but no. I went out and had the least success, rolled an ankle, and felt deflated. Anyway, that's how its been so far. I've tried driving more roads as people suggest although I'm thinking that is likely more fruitful later in the season when they are migrating and its cooler. Hiked to some new spots. Seen more country. Not one mature buck.


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## jlofthouse16 (Oct 18, 2021)

Why do you hunt deer? For the meat? For the fun of killing it? Just because your brothers do? OK answer me, Why?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

jlofthouse16 said:


> Why do you hunt deer? For the meat? For the fun of killing it? Just because your brothers do? OK answer me, Why?


I'd have to choose D) all of the above


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

How did the archery hunt go?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> How did the archery hunt go?


Thanks for asking. Not tagged out yet. Got into does and small forked horns all days but one that I went out. Last day I ended up on an 8 mile hike. Hiked to a peak I had been trying to find other ways to get to with no luck. Found a decent route the last day. Found 6 or 7 bucks way up in super thick oak more than 1000 yds away with no real way to get to them undetected. Figured I'd gone that far (3.5 miles) so I might as well try and make a play. Made a long round about route to get to where I thought they might be. When I finally got around to the face they had been on they had walked the other direction. 250 yds away. I didn't have the long range arrows😉 so I couldn't take a shot. Decided to back out and get way up on the ridge and see if I could find them. Never did. There was a lot of thick oak up top so they could have been in there or back where I saw them. started the long way home.

Up on cedar mountain today. My 15 year old drew a youth bull tag. Talked to some people I know and found someone who was going to take us on his private land. He bailed at the last minute so we're up here randomly trying to stumble into a bull 🤷‍♂️ I feel bad. This is his 3rd tag and he hasn't tagged out on anything yet. Couldn't find him even a 2 point 2 years ago when he had a pine valley rifle tag and couldn't find a cow when he drew a cow tag. Saw 40 bulls (good ones) opening morning of the cow hunt on beaver east. Not a single cow. Oh well. I just hope he doesn't get so discouraged that he gives up all together. Have a great weekend


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

bsevans5 said:


> Thanks for asking. Not tagged out yet. Got into does and small forked horns all days but one that I went out. Last day I ended up on an 8 mile hike. Hiked to a peak I had been trying to find other ways to get to with no luck. Found a decent route the last day. Found 6 or 7 bucks way up in super thick oak more than 1000 yds away with no real way to get to them undetected. Figured I'd gone that far (3.5 miles) so I might as well try and make a play. Made a long round about route to get to where I thought they might be. When I finally got around to the face they had been on they had walked the other direction. 250 yds away. I didn't have the long range arrows😉 so I couldn't take a shot. Decided to back out and get way up on the ridge and see if I could find them. Never did. There was a lot of thick oak up top so they could have been in there or back where I saw them. started the long way home.
> 
> Up on cedar mountain today. My 15 year old drew a youth bull tag. Talked to some people I know and found someone who was going to take us on his private land. He bailed at the last minute so we're up here randomly trying to stumble into a bull 🤷‍♂️ I feel bad. This is his 3rd tag and he hasn't tagged out on anything yet. Couldn't find him even a 2 point 2 years ago when he had a pine valley rifle tag and couldn't find a cow when he drew a cow tag. Saw 40 bulls (good ones) opening morning of the cow hunt on beaver east. Not a single cow. Oh well. I just hope he doesn't get so discouraged that he gives up all together. Have a great weekend





bsevans5 said:


> Thanks for asking. Not tagged out yet. Got into does and small forked horns all days but one that I went out. Last day I ended up on an 8 mile hike. Hiked to a peak I had been trying to find other ways to get to with no luck. Found a decent route the last day. Found 6 or 7 bucks way up in super thick oak more than 1000 yds away with no real way to get to them undetected. Figured I'd gone that far (3.5 miles) so I might as well try and make a play. Made a long round about route to get to where I thought they might be. When I finally got around to the face they had been on they had walked the other direction. 250 yds away. I didn't have the long range arrows😉 so I couldn't take a shot. Decided to back out and get way up on the ridge and see if I could find them. Never did. There was a lot of thick oak up top so they could have been in there or back where I saw them. started the long way home.
> 
> Up on cedar mountain today. My 15 year old drew a youth bull tag. Talked to some people I know and found someone who was going to take us on his private land. He bailed at the last minute so we're up here randomly trying to stumble into a bull 🤷‍♂️ I feel bad. This is his 3rd tag and he hasn't tagged out on anything yet. Couldn't find him even a 2 point 2 years ago when he had a pine valley rifle tag and couldn't find a cow when he drew a cow tag. Saw 40 bulls (good ones) opening morning of the cow hunt on beaver east. Not a single cow. Oh well. I just hope he doesn't get so discouraged that he gives up all together. Have a great weekend


If you are worried about your son losing interest, you should do the mentor program and let him shoot one of the two-point bucks you’ve been seeing


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> If you are worried about your son losing interest, you should do the mentor program and let him shoot one of the two-point bucks you’ve been seeing


I didn't think someone could do mentor if they had a license and have drawn tags. I may need to look into that. I tried to get him on a 2 point 2 years ago, but by rifle season I that year i couldn't even find one of those


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Utah Hunter Mentoring Program


The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources serves the people of Utah by managing and protecting the state's wildlife.




wildlife.utah.gov


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

bsevans5 said:


> I just hope he doesn't get so discouraged that he gives up all together.


If not killing an animal by 15 makes him so discouraged he wants to give up, you’re going about this all wrong.

Heck, both my older brothers couldn’t even apply for a tag to big game hunt until they were 16.The law changed in time for me to do it at 14. I didn’t kill my first buck until 17 years old. I had been going with my dad consistently since I was 6 years old. This is why I don’t buy the “kids will lose interest” stuff so many people say. I’ll be blunt and honest and say if that happens simply because of a lack of harvesting an animal then the adults around these kids failed them.

There are a million reasons a kid could lose interest, some of them good, most of them lame. But if the biggest reason is not killing animals, then I blame the adults in the room, not the kid.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

The only situation where I could see a kid losing interest after failing to harvest would be a bad situation. A parent that only cares about harvesting and killing. A parent that is a bad sport and gets upset when they don't harvest. A parent pushing the kid to hard causing the child physical discomfort instead of calling it and heading back to camp.

Hunting should be the highlight of a kids year. Gettting out of school, camping with dad and family, eating good food and snacks, building fires, shooting guns, finding cool rocks, the list goes on and on. Harvesting an animal should be pretty far down that list.

Growing up we never harvested but I always looked forward to the deer hunt because it was the best time of the year for me and my dad.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

ns450f - BINGO!


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## schoolhousegrizz (Nov 23, 2014)

OP, I think you may need to change the way you're looking at hunting. I love hunting and always have but I went through a stretch where I push so hard and made it all about the kill that I stopped enjoying it. I even came to hate it. And I took a break and love it more than ever but have a healthy viewpoint on it. You are way too focused on results and just enjoying the hunt. Sounds like you're getting burnt out. You may not want to go as often until you feel the hunger to go. It's all about the experience. Yes killing is still a goal. But if you're not having fun you need to make it fun. That's not worth it to go out there and be miserable and spend time away from family. Get off social media stop looking at all these bucks that people kill. If it's not fun change it up and make it fun.


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## schoolhousegrizz (Nov 23, 2014)

schoolhousegrizz said:


> OP, I think you may need to change the way you're looking at hunting. I love hunting and always have but I went through a stretch where I push so hard and made it all about the kill that I stopped enjoying it. I even came to hate it. And I took a break and love it more than ever but have a healthy viewpoint on it. You are way too focused on results instead of just enjoying the hunt. Sounds like you're getting burnt out. You may not want to go as often until you feel the hunger to go. It's all about the experience. Yes killing is still a goal. But if you're not having fun you need to make it fun. That's not worth it to go out there and be miserable and spend time away from family. Get off social media stop looking at all these bucks that people kill. If it's not fun change it up and make it fun.


Meant to say you're too focused on results INSTEAD of just enjoying the experience of the hunt


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

schoolhousegrizz said:


> OP, I think you may need to change the way you're looking at hunting. I love hunting and always have but I went through a stretch where I push so hard and made it all about the kill that I stopped enjoying it. I even came to hate it. And I took a break and love it more than ever but have a healthy viewpoint on it. You are way too focused on results and just enjoying the hunt. Sounds like you're getting burnt out. You may not want to go as often until you feel the hunger to go. It's all about the experience. Yes killing is still a goal. But if you're not having fun you need to make it fun. That's not worth it to go out there and be miserable and spend time away from family. Get off social media stop looking at all these bucks that people kill. If it's not fun change it up and make it fun.


Thanks for the input. I agree. I am burned out. Going out multiple days in a week. the gas money. The time away and not seeing anything. its very discouraging. My buddies that join me for their single tag are stoked to be out there, but after 2 years of nothing, I'm just not excited. It feels like a chore to get out there. If I don't go I feel like I'm missing that one opportunity. I hear about other units and see other peoples' success and am happy for them, but also frustrated to work so hard and not find anything. It will take some time to draw a tag again after this year, so hopefully that break will recharge me 🤞


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> If not killing an animal by 15 makes him so discouraged he wants to give up, you’re going about this all wrong.
> 
> Heck, both my older brothers couldn’t even apply for a tag to big game hunt until they were 16.The law changed in time for me to do it at 14. I didn’t kill my first buck until 17 years old. I had been going with my dad consistently since I was 6 years old. This is why I don’t buy the “kids will lose interest” stuff so many people say. I’ll be blunt and honest and say if that happens simply because of a lack of harvesting an animal then the adults around these kids failed them.
> 
> There are a million reasons a kid could lose interest, some of them good, most of them lame. But if the biggest reason is not killing animals, then I blame the adults in the room, not the kid.


I appreciate your perspective. I've tried to make each of his hunts (and the times he's gone out with me for my tags) fun and a good time. Of course I can't control his attitude and as anyone, he gets excited when we start and sad when it ends empty handed. I was just saying I could understand his discouragement, but hope he's happy just to be out there..although at 15, I don't know that he wants to be around me ever...regardless of the environment, so I'm not only competing with his lack of success, but also developmental stage of dad being the enemy/no fun 🤷‍♂️ kids, am I right?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

ns450f said:


> The only situation where I could see a kid losing interest after failing to harvest would be a bad situation. A parent that only cares about harvesting and killing. A parent that is a bad sport and gets upset when they don't harvest. A parent pushing the kid to hard causing the child physical discomfort instead of calling it and heading back to camp.
> 
> Hunting should be the highlight of a kids year. Gettting out of school, camping with dad and family, eating good food and snacks, building fires, shooting guns, finding cool rocks, the list goes on and on. Harvesting an animal should be pretty far down that list.
> 
> Growing up we never harvested but I always looked forward to the deer hunt because it was the best time of the year for me and my dad.


Thanks. You've made a good point, along with @Vanilla and @schoolhousegrizz 

I have tried hard to make it fun. I hope it was. we didn't tag out. We didn't ever see, hear, or come across anyone else who had found any sign that elk are around right now. Found old tracks and poop, but that was it. He's 15 and as cool as I think I am, I don't know that I quite make the cut. I'm hoping in future years he'll look back on these times with a smile


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## TheHuntin’Hick (4 mo ago)

bsevans5 said:


> I came on here last year looking for any direction I could get. I didn't get far, but figured I'd try again. This will be my 3rd year of dedicated hunter (or dedicated hiker as I call it). I've been out close to 70 days in the last 2 years. Haven't come across a decent buck once. Last year I saw some spikes and small forkies. I get out and hike as far away from roads as I can get...sometimes I hike so far I end up at another road even though it wasn't on OnX.
> 
> I have hunted mostly on the south end of the unit (enterprise, pine valley, utah hill, pachoon flat, etc.) Been on bumblee a couple times. I am in st george so I dont know the northern part of the unit at all. I suffer from the fact that a large part of hunting is luck, because I'm one of those "if I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all" kind of people. I put in the work, but end up with no results. I can tell you were deer arent. If anyone has any ideas other than the typical ox valley, communication hill, atchison, grass valley, big mountain, blake and gubler, pilots peak and all the stuff already listed and in between I sure would appreciate any help. As I said in my post last year...not asking for a honey hole. Just need some direction. I seem to pick all the places where deer don't go.


I messaged ya. Give it a look


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

I figured I'd give an update as some members have followed my progress, or lack there of. I'll try to keep this to pamphlet length rather than novel...

I went out opening morning of the muzzleloader with a buddy who had a son with a tag. Unbeknownst to me, he also planned to bring his 10 year old that was done walking after the first step from the UTV. I didn't expect to see anything because that's normal, in addition to the extra people and noise. SO MANY HUNTERS. I don't want to accuse the DWR of being dishonest about cutting tags by almost 60%. I don't know how the allocation went, but I have seen more hunters during each hunt than I've seen in a whole year combined. I saw more hunters during the first two weeks of archery than I would in a whole year. I saw more hunters on the opener of the muzzleloader than I would in a whole year. Wondering what the two rifle seasons will bring.

Back to it...we hiked an area I've been in before where I've seen lots of does and forked horns. Like many other places, my buddy said years ago it was packed with deer. We ended up spotting some bucks. One was a pretty good size. Based on what happened, I'm guessing they came into the area we were in because of pressure from other hunters, not because they were just hanging out in there. We were at the base of two faces "basically the bottom of a v." they were at the top of one side. We dropped packs and hiked up the face to make a play. I realized halfway up that I left my reloads in my pack, but figured "I only need one shot so..." We were halfway up. Couldn't see the bucks. Seemed like the face may have leveled out up top into a recessed pocket or something. As we're discussing how we wanted to proceed from there, I spotted a doe horizontal from us. Hoping she wouldn't bust us, we remained still to see what she'd do and then noticed all the bucks were below her. They had come down the face around a bend we couldnt see. Had we stayed at the bottom on the trail we were on, they would have walked right into us. They were at the bottom and starting to walk up the other face. I had an equipment issue. His son tried to take a shot with him rushing him, shooting irons at 250 yds. Needless to say, we didn't tag out and watched them mosey up the other face and gone. We had to head back, so that was it. 

I went out 2 days later (friday) and decided to go back to where I saw the bucks I mentioned in a previous post on the last day of the archery hunt. I figured, its quite a ways in, they probably didn't see a lot of pressure and being a couple weeks later, maybe there are even more/bigger bucks in there. I saw LOTS of camps on the way in. Spotted a couple hunters on the hike (heard a shot at one point). I made it the 3.5 miles to the base of the face. Glassed for a bit. Not a single deer. No does. No bucks. nothing. I decided to hike up the face. if nothing else, I might find something hiding, but 2 weeks prior, they were out feeding for quite some time, so I figured there was nothing in there. I was right. Nothing. Went all the way on top thinking maybe they were up there. Nope. I hiked around on top weaving all over. Sat for a while and glassed. Glassed other faces off the back side. Didn't see a thing. Got back exhausted with 9+ miles down. Fell asleep back at the truck because I was too tired to drive home. By that time it was late afternoon. Figured I was already part of the way to Enterprise, so I'd go out there to an area I hunt with some friends. Hiked 1.5 miles in. Glassed for hours. Ran out of water. Didn't see anything. On the way out I spotted a couple does. 

Drove some roads other times. Never saw anything. Was going to venture out on the mountain a couple mornings before the muzzleloader ended, but was at a loss at this point as to where to even try, so never made it back out. 

The wife planned a family trip this week during fall break. I'll go out tomorrow morning just to say I made it out during the early rifle, but again, I have no idea where to go at this point. I'll be gone the rest of the early rifle. I have no idea where I'll go tomorrow, but I figured I've got to get out somewhere. Anyway, that's how its been for me the last couple weeks. Good luck to anyone going out tomorrow.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Thanks for keeping us updated. 

I have found that resident deer will quite often come back to the same area even after being shot at if you give them a day or so. 

On the extra hunters, that is where back when there were 300,000 tags people said that there were deer everywhere. There were also hunters everywhere pushing the deer all over the place where all you had to do is to sit in one spot and wait, sooner or later some would get pushed pass you.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

bsevans5 said:


> I figured I'd give an update as some members have followed my progress, or lack there of. I'll try to keep this to pamphlet length rather than novel...
> 
> I went out opening morning of the muzzleloader with a buddy who had a son with a tag. Unbeknownst to me, he also planned to bring his 10 year old that was done walking after the first step from the UTV. I didn't expect to see anything because that's normal, in addition to the extra people and noise. SO MANY HUNTERS. I don't want to accuse the DWR of being dishonest about cutting tags by almost 60%. I don't know how the allocation went, but I have seen more hunters during each hunt than I've seen in a whole year combined. I saw more hunters during the first two weeks of archery than I would in a whole year. I saw more hunters on the opener of the muzzleloader than I would in a whole year. Wondering what the two rifle seasons will bring.
> 
> ...


The increase in the hunters you are seeing is likely a symptom of the poor deer herd health. With few deer in places that have historically held them hunters are spreading out and checking new places when old "honey-holes" aren't holding deer. Just a thought.


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## schoolhousegrizz (Nov 23, 2014)

bsevans5 said:


> I figured I'd give an update as some members have followed my progress, or lack there of. I'll try to keep this to pamphlet length rather than novel...
> 
> I went out opening morning of the muzzleloader with a buddy who had a son with a tag. Unbeknownst to me, he also planned to bring his 10 year old that was done walking after the first step from the UTV. I didn't expect to see anything because that's normal, in addition to the extra people and noise. SO MANY HUNTERS. I don't want to accuse the DWR of being dishonest about cutting tags by almost 60%. I don't know how the allocation went, but I have seen more hunters during each hunt than I've seen in a whole year combined. I saw more hunters during the first two weeks of archery than I would in a whole year. I saw more hunters on the opener of the muzzleloader than I would in a whole year. Wondering what the two rifle seasons will bring.
> 
> ...


My advice would be more optimistic whether you see deer or not.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

schoolhousegrizz said:


> My advice would be more optimistic whether you see deer or not.


This might be the best advice you have gotten yet


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

schoolhousegrizz said:


> My advice would be more optimistic whether you see deer or not.


Great advice. It's been a challenge to manage burnout. I feel like I've done better this year than the last 2 years, but I'm just trying to be real here to share my experience. It's not the glory seen on social media, which I'm fine with. In being honest with myself though, I do struggle with confidence in my decision making. When I go out the and time again and don't see anything, it makes it hard to trust my judgment/feel confident in choosing where to go the next time


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## schoolhousegrizz (Nov 23, 2014)

bsevans5 said:


> Great advice. It's been a challenge to manage burnout. I feel like I've done better this year than the last 2 years, but I'm just trying to be real here to share my experience. It's not the glory seen on social media, which I'm fine with. In being honest with myself though, I do struggle with confidence in my decision making. When I go out the and time again and don't see anything, it makes it hard to trust my judgment/feel confident in choosing where to go the next time


You're pushing too hard I think you're caught up in the social media mess. Get off social media and avoid it like the plague. You won't instantly start seeing things differently because you will remember everything you saw on social media. However, after 6 months to a year things will start getting better and you will start seeing things more clear. You will be more at peace with the way you are doing things and your confidence and happiness will grow. I promise you this. I've been there. Do it, and do it now.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

schoolhousegrizz said:


> You're pushing too hard I think you're caught up in the social media mess. Get off social media and avoid it like the plague. You won't instantly start seeing things differently because you will remember everything you saw on social media. However, after 6 months to a year things will start getting better and you will start seeing things more clear. You will be more at peace with the way you are doing things and your confidence and happiness will grow. I promise you this. I've been there. Do it, and do it now.


I got off all the YouTube channels and IG stuff last year. It was too much. I haven't followed anything on social media. It's not real life for the average hunter. I have a buddy that wanted to combat the fairy tale of YT hunting channels with all the time in the world, private land to hunt, connections, guides, etc. He wanted to call it the "9-5 hunter" or something like that to show what life is like for a family guy working a full time job and trying to hunt on the side


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I will say, it really sounds like you don’t enjoy hunting, it sounds like it’s more of a chore for you than a passion/hobby/way of life.
If that is the case, maybe hunting just isn’t for you.

every hunter has times where he is frustrated and annoyed but no matter how annoyed and frustrated I’ve been, I’ve never looked at going out as a task, or some inconvenience.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray said:


> I will say, it really sounds like you don’t enjoy hunting, it’s sounds like it’s more of a chore for you than a passion/hobby/way of life.
> If that is the case, maybe hunting just isn’t for you.
> 
> every hunter has times where he is frustrated and annoyed but no matter how annoyed and frustrated I’ve been, I’ve never looked at going out as a task, or some inconvenience.


Thanks for your perspective. I've had times when I really have enjoyed just being out. Always learning. I appreciate the feedback of others with more experience


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

You’re your biggest enemy when it comes to not seeing anything. Sounds like you want to jump areas way too quickly when you don’t immediately find what you’re looking for. If you aren’t seeing does and fawns, anywhere, that’s probably an indication that you either don’t know how to sit down and glass an area very well. Or you aren’t being nearly as sneaky as you imagine. Or maybe you aren’t even trying at all. Either way just from reading your reports, it sounds like you have a lot to learn. and I agree with ray. It does sound like you feel annoyed by being out hunting. Sounds like you got into it because it’s what the “kool bois” are doing, so you are doing it too.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

It sounds to me like your putting a ton of pressure on yourself to kill a deer. I don't know what you history of hunting is or how long you've been at it, but I think you're missing the point of the hunt. Killing is part of the experience, but it's not nearly as rewarding as the overall experience and the memories created and the lessons learned. If you haven't killed a buck yet, kill something smaller and get the gorilla off your back. Slow down and quit spending so much effort trying to cover the whole mountain or get away from other hunters. When you're in an area spend some time learning what the deer are doing, where they move when jumped, bedding and feeding patterns. Bucks don't always spend time in the same places as does, but I've found they are generally relatively close.

I just got back from one of the most physically and mentally demanding hunt I've ever done. I know that frustration, but don't let it get in the way of enjoying the experience you are having.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dahlmer said:


> It sounds to me like your putting a ton of pressure on yourself to kill a deer. I don't know what you history of hunting is or how long you've been at it, but I think you're missing the point of the hunt. Killing is part of the experience, but it's not nearly as rewarding as the overall experience and the memories created and the lessons learned. If you haven't killed a buck yet, kill something smaller and get the gorilla off your back. Slow down and quit spending so much effort trying to cover the whole mountain or get away from other hunters. When you're in an area spend some time learning what the deer are doing, where they move when jumped, bedding and feeding patterns. Bucks don't always spend time in the same places as does, but I've found they are generally relatively close.
> 
> I just got back from one of the most physically and mentally demanding hunt I've ever done. I know that frustration, but don't let it get in the way of enjoying the experience you are having.


Thanks dahlmer. I want to learn that's why I came here for help.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> You’re your biggest enemy when it comes to not seeing anything. Sounds like you want to jump areas way too quickly when you don’t immediately find what you’re looking for. If you aren’t seeing does and fawns, anywhere, that’s probably and indication that you either don’t know how to sit down and glass an area very well. Or you aren’t being nearly as sneaky as you imagine. Or maybe you aren’t even trying at all. Either way just from reading your reports, it sounds like you have a lot to learn. I and I agree with ray. It does sound like you feel annoyed by being out hunting. Sounds like you got into it because it’s what the “kool bois” are doing, so you are doing it too.


Moosemeat, I admit I have lots to learn. I've mentioned that very thing several times in this thread. I appreciate all the input provided. I wouldn't say I'm annoyed as much as burnt out. Having a single season tag is a totally different experience than this has been. I've learned a lot these last three years. Looking forward to continuing to learn as long as I can still get on the mountain. Have a great week


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You have got a TON of good advice on this thread. Probably more than any other thread where a single available “female” wasn’t asking for the advice on how to elk hunt.

I’ll readily admit I’m not the greatest big game hunter. I kind of suck at it, actually. I’ve come home empty handed way more times than I’ve come home with an animal. WAY more. But I’ve never come home feeling the way you portray yourself after every outing. Maybe it’s just because it’s a forum and I’m reading too much into your posts. But man, I’ve yet to hear about an awesome experience you’ve had out in the field. I’ve heard about a lot of crappy ones in this thread, however.

I had a Pine Valley early rifle tag last year. We had no issue finding small bucks. It required no scouting or special prior knowledge. They were kind of everywhere. (That’s an exaggeration, because the one day we hiked into a further away canyon I thought would be an awesome location, we saw Jack squat!) Seriously, there are little bucks running all over that unit. Find one, kill one. See if that helps with the morale.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

bsevans5 said:


> He wanted to call it the "9-5 hunter" or something like that to show what life is like for a family guy working a full time job and trying to hunt on the side


Even that wouldn’t be reality. It changes depending on the hunter. I know several local guys personally that work a full time job, have a family and other responsibilities, that put many of the famed hunters on tv to shame with what they can do on the weekends, on general hunts and over pressured public land.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Vanilla said:


> Seriously, there are little bucks running all over that unit. Find one, kill one. See if that helps with the morale.













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> You have got a TON of good advice on this thread. Probably more than any other thread where a single available “female” wasn’t asking for the advice on how to elk hunt.
> 
> I’ll readily admit I’m not the greatest big game hunter. I kind of suck at it, actually. I’ve come home empty handed way more times than I’ve come home with an animal. WAY more. But I’ve never come home feeling the way you portray yourself after every outing. Maybe it’s just because it’s a forum and I’m reading too much into your posts. But man, I’ve yet to hear about an awesome experience you’ve had out in the field. I’ve heard about a lot of crappy ones in this thread, however.
> 
> I had a Pine Valley early rifle tag last year. We had no issue finding small bucks. It required no scouting or special prior knowledge. They were kind of everywhere. (That’s an exaggeration, because the one day we hiked into a further away canyon I thought would be an awesome location, we saw Jack squat!) Seriously, there are little bucks running all over that unit. Find one, kill one. See if that helps with the morale.


Vanilla. I agree. Great feedback here. I've tried to respond to each person who's offered perspective, advice, and suggestions because I appreciate everyone who has contributed. I've kept this thread alive because I want to learn. I recognize it's a process and I'm early in my hunting experience. I value the experience others have shared. Thanks again to all.


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## schoolhousegrizz (Nov 23, 2014)

Other thought. You may just want to avoid the dedicated Hunter tag. I know when I got burned out, it was because I had long long seasons. Just get the rifle tag. Then you only have 5 days or 9 days to hunt. You can hit it hard for that week give it your all and then you're done. Don't need to get burned out.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

schoolhousegrizz said:


> Other thought. You may just want to avoid the dedicated Hunter tag. I know when I got burned out, it was because I had long long seasons. Just get the rifle tag. Then you only have 5 days or 9 days to hunt. You can hit it hard for that week give it your all and then you're done. Don't need to get burned out.


Yeah. That's my plan. I decided last year I wouldn't do dedicated again


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

You hear about those quick hunts...the hunter that gets out of the truck and a big buck or bull is right there and bang...hunt is over. What about those hunts that are over so quickly they end before they start?

This morning was my only chance to go out for early rifle. Got up, got ready, packed up and left. In the loading up process I moved my bino harness and blaze orange that were sitting on something I worried was going to be in my wife's way. Moved the item, grabbed the rest of my stuff and headed out. Got to my parking spot quicker than I anticipated, so I enjoyed 20 minutes of quiet time. Finally got out of the truck to unload. Realized my binos and orange were there and remembered I had set them aside to move the item in my garage for my wife and apparently never loaded them. I considered unloading the UTV and heading to my destination anyway thinking maybe I'll find something I can with my naked eye. I have an orange patch on my pack I could do something with. Neither of those are great compromises, but this morning is all I had. Well, strike three was realizing my tag is in the pocket of my bino harness. I wasn't willing to risk harvesting an animal without the tag in my pocket so I enjoyed the experience of getting back in my truck and driving home. By the time I got home, it would be too late to go back out.

Lesson to all...triple check your list and make sure everything is loaded.

Maybe I'll find a deer during the general rifle 🤷‍♂️ 

Have a great week everyone.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> You hear about those quick hunts...the hunter that gets out of the truck and a big buck or bull is right there and bang...hunt is over. What about those hunts that are over so quickly they end before they start?


sometimes you get lucky. But you can't get lucky if you aren't out.


A couple years ago we had our normal weekend archery elk hunt over on Boulder. It was brutal. We hiked our butts off and couldn't get into the elk. It was very frustrating. I went home empty handed. 

The next opportunity to hunt was the Sunday prior to Labor Day. Busy weekend, with people everywhere on the mountain. It was hot, and very dry that year. I honestly had no desire to drive up on Cedar Mountain / Panguitch to fight the crowds and hunt. After church my wife told me to just go. I had no plan. I didn't even have a destination in mind. I called my brother on my drive up the mountain and said "where should I go". He recommend a spot. On the drive to that location, I had about 3 ATVs and a truck pushing me up the dirt road, with a nice cloud of dust. Ugh. I finally just pulled over to let them all past me. They zoomed by. I figured that was as good a spot as any to go for a hike. I grabbed my pack and bow, and walked about 10 yards into the trees, where a spike elk was feeding. I shot it. I fell down. I could still see my truck, and the road. My hunt was over in 15 minutes.

Sometimes you just get lucky. But that is the exception, and not the rule. The only way to get lucky, is to stick with it.

You need to figure out whether or not you like hunting. From all your posts, I don't think you do. I think you need to look in the mirror and decide whether you really like going out hunting or not -- regardless of the success, or lack thereof.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that you just need to go shoot a deer. 

You have 3 years to shoot 2 bucks I believe so just shoot one 
and think about a larger one next year.

In other words, get the monkey off of your back.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Critter said:


> I think that you just need to go shoot a deer.
> 
> You have 3 years to shoot 2 bucks I believe so just shoot one
> and think about a larger one next year.
> ...


Thanks critter. This is my 3rd year. I have the general rifle still. We'll see what I can make happen


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> sometimes you get lucky. But you can't get lucky if you aren't out.
> 
> 
> A couple years ago we had our normal weekend archery elk hunt over on Boulder. It was brutal. We hiked our butts off and couldn't get into the elk. It was very frustrating. I went home empty handed.
> ...


PBH, thanks for sharing your experience. The thought of "well if you're not out there, you don't have a chance" has gotten me up on many a morning in the last 2 years. I do enjoy hunting, just not this multi-month grudge match. I'm still learning a lot and adjusting expectations as I go. Hunting each weapon/season has helped me learn, but as I've mentioned in other posts, sacrificing other things that are important to me for months and not accomplishing what I set out to do has not been what I pictured dedicated hunter to be. I don't see myself doing dedicated again, at least not while im raising kids, but I'll certainly keep learning as I get the chance to hunt single seaso tags in the future.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Yeah put a little less pressure on the kill, there are many other ways to be successful. I'm probably one of the least successful hunters on this forum, and I'm thrilled at the chance to get out. I get discouraged, but not like you have described in this thread. Somedays on the extended archery hunt, sometimes just seeing a buck can be a successful day in my book. Other days just reaching the glassing point before legal shooting light is a win for me, as I am also raising 3 young kids and sometimes the energy to get up at 4 am just isn't there. 

It can take decades to be like the guys that fill almost every tag they have. Takes so many years of experience and effort to get there.

Adjust your threshold for what success looks like to match where you are at in your hunting journey, you'll enjoy it more.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Yeah put a little less pressure on the kill, there are many other ways to be successful. I'm probably one of the least successful hunters on this forum, and I'm thrilled at the chance to get out. I get discouraged, but not like you have described in this thread. Somedays on the extended archery hunt, sometimes just seeing a buck can be a successful day in my book. Other days just reaching the glassing point before legal shooting light is a win for me, as I am also raising 3 young kids and sometimes the energy to get up at 4 am just isn't there.
> 
> It can take decades to be like the guys that fill almost every tag they have. Takes so many years of experience and effort to get there.
> 
> Adjust your threshold for what success looks like to match where you are at in your hunting journey, you'll enjoy it more.


TPrawitt91, thanks for your encouragement. I appreciate it. A lot of the discouragement has come from the uncertainty. Am I in a place that holds deer? Should I be over there? Are there deer here and I'm just not seeing them? I hope I've accurately reflected that I'm willing to work hard. The problem I run into is not knowing if I'm even in the right spot. I ask myself: If I see no hunters is that because I did a good job getting away from them (which in my mind equates to I should see deer) or am I the only one out here because everyone else knows they aren't here this time of year or this area has just dried up?

Constant mind games with myself. No one can fix that for me. I'm just going to keep learning and developing as I go


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## elkhunterUT (Jan 21, 2008)

What is the depth and breadth of your hunting experience? Have you had a day hunting that you will always remember? Have you only hunted general deer tags on Pine Valley? Do you have any Limited Entry points for deer or elk? I think you need a good hunt to find some success in locating animals and killing one to really get the fire going, but if that doesn't do it, maybe it is time to put down the weapons and take up the golf clubs. 🤷‍♂️ 

If you can draw a LE elk tag, I would be willing to personally help you kill a bull.


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

bsevans5 said:


> TPrawitt91, thanks for your encouragement. I appreciate it. A lot of the discouragement has come from the uncertainty. Am I in a place that holds deer? Should I be over there? Are there deer here and I'm just not seeing them? I hope I've accurately reflected that I'm willing to work hard. The problem I run into is not knowing if I'm even in the right spot. I ask myself: If I see no hunters is that because I did a good job getting away from them (which in my mind equates to I should see deer) or am I the only one out here because everyone else knows they aren't here this time of year or this area has just dried up?
> 
> Constant mind games with myself. No one can fix that for me. I'm just going to keep learning and developing as I go


There are a lot of parts of Pine Valley that has very few deer and very few hunters. You'd be better off finding a dirt road that turns of the pavement. Wait there until a truck with a vortex or browning sticker and passengers dressed in orange drives by and then follow them.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Saw this article and thought it was fitting for this conversation.









How to Make Deer Hunting Not Fun


I remember my low point well. I was heading west on I-80, hot cup of coffee in hand, with seven days of chasing Iowa whitetails in my rearview mirror and another week of the rut ahead in Nebraska. If you’d asked me a decade prior how that sounded, I’d have told you it was an absolute dream come...




www.themeateater.com


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

When he said, "I love things HARD", I felt that big time. It's how I stay obsessed with only average skill/ability. Can't wait for Sunday, hitting the Wasatch Front with an elk and deer tag in my pocket. Does it get any better?!?!?


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Dedicated Hunter. It seems to me like this is putting too much pressure on bsevens. I think expectations need to be adjusted -- maybe not expectations, but more like "dedication", or commitment, or _devotion_. Yes -- that's the word: devotion. to give all or a large part of one's time or resources to an activity.

that's your problem. This is NOT the intent of the DH program, although many people do devote 3 (or more) months out of the year to hunt deer. 

The DH program gives you the _opportunity_ to hunt the three different seasons (archery, muzzy, rifle). It does NOT require that you spend ever available free minute of your time doing so. There are many years that I don't hunt the muzzleloader at all. This year, for the first time in ~35 years, we didn't hunt archery. 

If you are burning out -- then you simply need to adjust your commitment. Figure out which season you really want to be out in the woods looking for animals. Maximize those times -- and forget all the other "extra" hunting trips that you are just "wasting time". There is no need to frustrate yourself "not seeing animals". Prioritize your trips -- make only a couple trips, if necessary, and maximize those trips so that you assure you are having a good time.



Finally -- and this is where me and my brothers differ from many other hunters -- decide WHERE you really want to hunt. We love the Boulder. Whether there are deer there or not, makes no difference. We're going to hunt it because we love the area. We hunt places based on where we want to go.

I think you just need to evaluate that what's, and why's, and where's that drive you to hunt. After you figure those out, then figure out the when's, and how often. Maybe you'll decide that the weapon in your hands is the wrong weapon, and a fly rod better suits you? Or maybe a golf club. Or a hiking stick. Or a shotgun.


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## cdbright (Aug 24, 2016)

When i first moved to UT i went 0-5 on deer & Elk first 5 years. I was hunting them like I grew up hunting White tail, BIIIIIG difference, but you live and learn as you go. Read up as much as you can and just going out there and getting as far in as you are comfortable with and getting busted and finally figuring out that does and does NOT work is all in the game. I found during scouting, to try to get as close as you can and pretending that you are on an actual hunt. You obviously dont want to do this right before your hunt and change their pattern, BUT it does give you practise to see what you can get away with and how close you can be dong so. Also searching new canyons or places that you THINK wouldn't hold any deer/elk and you may be surprised at what you learn. 

All in all , just being out there is awesome and if you dont fill the tag, you always have the next year, OR if you can swing it, try a guided hunt with high success rates if nothing else to boost your hunting confidence , then you will have the fever real good and want to go do it for yourself. 

GOOD LUCK OUT THERE !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Sounds like you have been focusing on hunting the high country too much. The pine valley unit is a strange unit.

By the time the muzzle loader starts the deer on the pine valley unit have already left the high country on pine valley mtn and started heading west.

During the muzzle loader and rifle hunts on this unit you should be hunting green scrub oak or the 6,000ft area with cedars, pinion, and a wide variety of desert plants like cliff rose, rabbit brush, manzanita, and buck brush.

Pine valley mountain proper is a very dry mtn. Depending on the moisture for the year the deer will all leave the mountain because there is no water. By July the deer on the pine valley mtn are getting all of their water from the plants they eat, especially oak leaves and acorns.

So once the oak leaves change and start dropping the deer will leave and head west for the winter range.

There is actually lots more water available to the deer as they go west and the all the desert shrubs have evolved to retain water year around compared to the plants and forage available on the actual pine valley mountain.

It's like clockwork. Starting the last week of September drive up highway 18 from St. George at sunset and see how many deer you find crossing the highway from east to west.

When I moved to St. George from Salt Lake 15 years ago I couldn't find deer on this unit because I kept hunting above 8,000ft on the pine valley mountain in October. I would hunt all over from New harmony to pine valley to browse over to Dameron Valley.

It didn't matter where I went, we would see lots of spore that was maybe a few weeks old but nothing fresh.

Than I started hunting west of town in the desert country and started finding a lot more deer.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> Dedicated Hunter. It seems to me like this is putting too much pressure on bsevens. I think expectations need to be adjusted -- maybe not expectations, but more like "dedication", or commitment, or _devotion_. Yes -- that's the word: devotion. to give all or a large part of one's time or resources to an activity.
> 
> that's your problem. This is NOT the intent of the DH program, although many people do devote 3 (or more) months out of the year to hunt deer.
> 
> ...


well said. I like the way you put it here.


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## Brohelm (Mar 13, 2021)

hey shoot me a message with your info. I'll help you out.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

So, how did it end?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ray, thanks for asking. Unfortunately, it ended 0-3. I got out quite a bit during the rifle hunt. Saw lots of hunters (again, scratching my head how I could see so many people this year if the tags were allegedly cut by 58%). Some days, didn't see any deer where I thought they'd be migrating through. Other days saw a lot of does. Opening day, nothing. Drove Pahcoon Flat with the family Sunday night of opening weekend. Saw a few hunters. One the way out finally found a few does. It was FREEZING up there. Didn't prepare my kids for that level of cold. Windy and we got some snow flurries. went out during the week. Nothing. Thursday night went out with a couple guys along the road outside veyo near the pump station. Saw other hunters. No deer. Again, very cold and extremely windy. Friday morning I went out with a buddy who's son had a tag also. We found a decent 2 point for him. tried to get him set up on it twice. SUPER windy. He just wasn't able to get a steady rest. We tried bipod, shooting sticks, natural rests. The buck went into some cedars with the does he was moving with. We relocated and tried hiking to gain elevation to get a different vantage point. Never found them again. Saw a bunch of other does and the tiniest 2 point way up a canyon. Split up from another guy who was out with us. He supposedly found a small 3 at the top of a mountain, but we couldn't ever locate it. Went to a different location Friday night. Saw some does. No bucks. Lots of hunters. Saturday I wasn't able to get out due to other obligations. Sunday night took the family out again where I had gone Friday night because my wife wanted to see it and I was hoping maybe some bucks had moved through after the does. Some obnoxious hunters were whipping all over on their machines. Got real high. As we were about to head down, a very nice gentleman asked if I wanted a good buck and had us follow him to where he had seen a nice buck go into thick cover. As we were talking about it, we saw another good buck pop out 750 yards away and he was heading away from us. He went into thick cedars and it was last light. Didn't have time to go find him. Saw a few does on the way down the mountain and that was the end.

I wasn't planning to do extended archery so I haven't researched those few areas at all. I was burned out and thinking I'd be happy the hunting season is over, but after seeing the buck last night, I'm all fired up and trying to figure out if I can find any intel on the extended archery areas and any time to go hunt them since they are quite a distance away.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

bsevans5 said:


> Saw lots of hunters (again, scratching my head how I could see so many people this year if the tags were allegedly cut by 58%).


Can I ask a clarifying question? I don't want to read too much into this statement, but when you use the word "allegedly" when talking about the published number and decrease in tags, do you not believe that actually happened? 

Or are you just using that word to emphasize that you saw a lot of hunters?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> Can I ask a clarifying question? I don't want to read too much into this statement, but when you use the word "allegedly" when talking about the published number and decrease in tags, do you not believe that actually happened?
> 
> Or are you just using that word to emphasize that you saw a lot of hunters?


Vanilla, a little of both. I want to believe the published numbers, but it has been hard to believe tags were decreased by that much and I have seen significantly more hunters out during each season this year then I would see during all seasons put together my first and second years of dedicated hunter. I know I've been to popular locations, but many of them are places I've hunted before and I've never seen as many people as I have this year. Just seems weird is all. Its all just my observation, but it seems hard to believe tags were cut by 58% and see more people than I have in the last two years. I am not diving deep down some conspiracy theory hole. Im guessing the reported numbers are legit, but to see so many more hunters than usual just seems a bit hard to believe there are that many less tags.

For example, in the first 2 weeks of the archery hunt I saw more hunters than I saw all of last year. I saw a lot more during muzzleloader, etc. 

I don't know what the allocation was per season this year, but I have talked to a few other hunters who hunt this unit and they've had similar experiences...seen a lot of hunters and wondered how they could be seeing so many if the tags were cut so drastically. 

Thats all

As for now...I gotta see if I can do some quick last minute e-scouting research on the extended archery to see if that's even a viable opportunity for me.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> I wasn't planning to do extended archery so I haven't researched those few areas at all. I was burned out and thinking I'd be happy the hunting season is over, but after seeing the buck last night, I'm all fired up and trying to figure out if I can find any intel on the extended archery areas and any time to go hunt them since they are quite a distance away.


The drive to the extended areas here in the southern part of the state aren't far. The trick with the extended archery down here is that much of it is private. If you look at the boundary map alongside OnxMaps, you can see that this. I'd tell you that you're welcome to come hunt my house -- but we just haven't had any deer on my property, or across the street -- and, all the sheep ranchers have brought their sheep down off the mountain, so all the alfalfa fields are full of sheep.

I just don't see the extended, at least here in Iron / Washington counties, being a good option, unless you have some access to the private in New Harmony.



My recommendation for next year: get further north on the PV unit. Hunting Pahcoon Flat this time of year is a gamble. I think you should try hitting the northern half of Washington county.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

PBH said:


> The drive to the extended areas here in the southern part of the state aren't far. The trick with the extended archery down here is that much of it is private. If you look at the boundary map alongside OnxMaps, you can see that this. I'd tell you that you're welcome to come hunt my house -- but we just haven't had any deer on my property, or across the street -- and, all the sheep ranchers have brought their sheep down off the mountain, so all the alfalfa fields are full of sheep.
> 
> I just don't see the extended, at least here in Iron / Washington counties, being a good option, unless you have some access to the private in New Harmony.
> 
> ...


Biggest hurdle for the so utah extended areas this year is they are already closed.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

^^

That will do it.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> The drive to the extended areas here in the southern part of the state aren't far. The trick with the extended archery down here is that much of it is private. If you look at the boundary map alongside OnxMaps, you can see that this. I'd tell you that you're welcome to come hunt my house -- but we just haven't had any deer on my property, or across the street -- and, all the sheep ranchers have brought their sheep down off the mountain, so all the alfalfa fields are full of sheep.
> 
> I just don't see the extended, at least here in Iron / Washington counties, being a good option, unless you have some access to the private in New Harmony.
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure all the southern extended archery is closed. From what I can tell its just a small area in new harmony that is almost 100% private and a little section outside cedar city, but the dates are over. I'd have to travel to hunt, so I've got to figure out if I can get enough information to feel confident about making the trip somewhere. 

I hit up blake and gubler a few times during the rifle hunt. and as I said, the road outside veyo that connects to the road leading to the pump station.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Biggest hurdle for the so utah extended areas this year is they are already closed.
> 
> View attachment 154164


Yep, I found that out last night when I decided to research it more after ending the rifle hunt empty handed.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Did you ever try Bumblebee?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> Did you ever try Bumblebee?


Not as much as I did last year. I went up a couple times. I wanted to familiarize myself with bumblebee more, but couldn't make it happen this year.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

My buddy took a nice buck off the pine valley unit this year. He was rifle hunting bumble bee.

This time of year on the pine valley the deer will be moving all throughout the day.

You got to have good glass and watch from sun up to sun down to catch the sneaky guys moving.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I've only read the beginning and end of this whole thread, but hear are my take aways.

1) You have several people here telling you to hunt Bumblebee (I've never hunted the PV unit), but you never got over to it, and you're frustrated at lack of deer sightings? You have the drive to bust a hump to see nothing in your usual spots, but won't go out on a limb with some good intel to learn a different spot... that obviously has deer? I think your priorities need some re-arranging - if you want to be as successful as you say you'd like to be.

2) Why continue to hunt areas that obviously don't have deer? Get out and see some new country - you might be surprised! I get it, hunting new places is a little daunting at first (I get nervous too), but if plans A, B, C, D and E have been less than desired, swallow that fear and go elsewhere! No sense beating yourself up hunting the same unproductive areas.

3) It's been said by others, but I'll say it again - shoot a forkie. Hell, shoot the first legal spike you see. Social media has so jacked up what new hunters expect to see. Based on viewing those 30- minute clips, there should be big a$$ deer behind every tree and bush. Well, there just isn't, but if you don't start shooting deer, you're gonna whiff when that big one steps out. Practice makes perfect, and it takes a heckuva lot of practice to keep it together when Mr. Big steps out. Besides, 1 and 2-year old deer eat better.

Hope this doesn't come across too harsh - it's not meant to be. I just think some readjustment of priorities and expectations should be in order. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

That message/advice/wisdom of much more glassing/looking and much less aimlessly walking/hiking has been given loud and clear over the months on this thread.

New areas are always tough to start the learning curve. We hunted Pine Valley in 2021 for the first time since we went away from the 5 regions and had a lot of fun. We found a lot of deer, a decent amount of smaller bucks with one REALLY nice buck we only got about 10 seconds glimpse at and never could put eyes on him again. He was a big deer. Aside from the big one, We found one what I think was a 3 year old buck that was a somewhat decent 4 point, and a bunch of small young bucks. My nephew ended up killing a small 3 point and me and my brother ate tag soup. Most of the bucks we saw we could see from a road while glassing. The furthest place we hiked into we didn’t see squat. It was the day after the big fresh snow storm and there was not even tracks or sign in the snow in this very large canyon drainage we hoofed it back to.

It was fun to see some new scenery, but I went back to our regular unit this year. Again, most deer we saw on this unit were when my butt was planted on the ground and looking through glass, not by hiking all over the mountain. I think that’s true in most deer hunting scenarios.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

not trying to rub salt in the wound here, but here are a couple pictures of deer killed on this year's rifle hunt from Bumblebee. Neither were far from roads. Obviously, some luck is always involved. I think you just need to keep with it. Learn from previous years, and use what you learned to make good decisions in the future.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Oh my word that top buck is a dream


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> not trying to rub salt in the wound here, but here are a couple pictures of deer killed on this year's rifle hunt from Bumblebee. Neither were far from roads. Obviously, some luck is always involved. I think you just need to keep with it. Learn from previous years, and use what you learned to make good decisions in the future.
> 
> View attachment 154170
> 
> ...


Wow! No offense taken. Nice to see some people were able to find some good bucks. The only bucks I saw shot throughout the season on the southern part of the unit were little 2 points. When luck is involved...I'm at a huge disadvantage. Luck has evaded me most of my life, but I haven't give up yet.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

MWScott72 said:


> I've only read the beginning and end of this whole thread, but hear are my take aways.
> 
> 1) You have several people here telling you to hunt Bumblebee (I've never hunted the PV unit), but you never got over to it, and you're frustrated at lack of deer sightings? You have the drive to bust a hump to see nothing in your usual spots, but won't go out on a limb with some good intel to learn a different spot... that obviously has deer? I think your priorities need some re-arranging - if you want to be as successful as you say you'd like to be.
> 
> ...


MWScott72, thanks for your thoughts. One of the reasons this thread is so long is because i've tried to take the time to respond to everyone who has offered thoughts. Whether harsh or not, I appreciate people on here taking time to help. Some of what you've mentioned has been addressed in the many posts throughout the thread.

Bumblebee has been mentioned. I made it up there a couple times. I did go out on a limb to try the new area. I'll admit, it is daunting going in "blind" not knowing an area, but I did venture a couple times up there. It does take longer to get there than other areas I went to so I didn't get up there as much as I wanted. People say there are deer all over the unit, so I tried some of their suggestions in areas I was somewhat more familiar with/were quicker to get to. I had ambitions to spend more time on bumblebee, but they didn't work out. I'll take responsibility for that for sure.

One of the suggestions made many times is that there are deer all over. I could sit a spot all day and see no deer and the next day that same spot may have them. There was advice to keep trying the same areas and other advice says to move on. I tried to balance those two sides this year. Each year I have gone to more new places, so I definitely have learned a lot of country in the last 3 years, but feel like I've barely scratched the surface of such a big unit. There are lots of places I've never been or hardly been to, but when I list where I've been, people often say I've covered a lot of country. I plan to put in for a different unit for a single weapon hunt next. I'm going to give pine valley a break. 

Thanks again for your time sharing your thoughts.


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> That message/advice/wisdom of much more glassing/looking and much less aimlessly walking/hiking has been given loud and clear over the months on this thread.
> 
> New areas are always tough to start the learning curve. We hunted Pine Valley in 2021 for the first time since we went away from the 5 regions and had a lot of fun. We found a lot of deer, a decent amount of smaller bucks with one REALLY nice buck we only got about 10 seconds glimpse at and never could put eyes on him again. He was a big deer. Aside from the big one, We found one what I think was a 3 year old buck that was a somewhat decent 4 point, and a bunch of small young bucks. My nephew ended up killing a small 3 point and me and my brother ate tag soup. Most of the bucks we saw we could see from a road while glassing. The furthest place we hiked into we didn’t see squat. It was the day after the big fresh snow storm and there was not even tracks or sign in the snow in this very large canyon drainage we hoofed it back to.
> 
> It was fun to see some new scenery, but I went back to our regular unit this year. Again, most deer we saw on this unit were when my butt was planted on the ground and looking through glass, not by hiking all over the mountain. I think that’s true in most deer hunting scenarios.


Vanilla, I know you've followed this thread and been kind enough to post more than once. I agree. Glassing has been emphasized. For any misconception throughout the posts, I'm not spending all day walking and just kind of looking around as I wander the wilderness. The hiking I have done has been to get to an area to glass. Some people have said to said and glass long periods, others have suggested that if I don't see anything for a while then I should move on. Many different styles of hunting out there. I've tried to learn from the many people who have offered suggestions here.

I plan to try a new area the next time I draw a tag. That certainly is daunting. The further an area is, the harder it will be to get to for scouting/learning the unit. It will also be a single season tag, not dedicated hunter, so I'll have significantly less time to figure things out, but I decided I'm ready to try somewhere else. I may return to Pine Valley like you've returned to your regular unit, but I would like to go somewhere different next time.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

PBH said:


> not trying to rub salt in the wound here, but here are a couple pictures of deer killed on this year's rifle hunt from Bumblebee. Neither were far from roads. Obviously, some luck is always involved. I think you just need to keep with it. Learn from previous years, and use what you learned to make good decisions in the future.
> 
> View attachment 154170
> 
> ...


Great.......
Now everyone will be headed for Bumblebee 
We used to hunt that a lot in the younger days before they screwed all of us in Iron County when they split it into 4 units. Now can't hunt it anymore. My place is in Zion unit. 
I miss running around on that hill, and being able to hunt Panquitch, and New Castle as well.
Oh well 🤔


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

But Option 2 is going to save the mule deer herd and benefit hunters!!!

10+ years later… (crickets)


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

If you have the time to come up north and maybe the funds to get a hotel for a night or two the extended up there might be worth a go. Especially if you are willing to shoot a doe. Plenty of info about the Wasatch extended all over the webs. Unfortunately, just like on your pine valley hunt even with the big tag reductions, you will have company.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> But Option 2 is going to save the mule deer herd and benefit hunters!!!
> 
> 10+ years later… (crickets)


Hey there were a couple years of very favorable conditions where the SFW boys were breaking their own arms patting themselves on the back!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bsevans5 said:


> I plan to put in for a different unit for a single weapon hunt next. I'm going to give pine valley a break.


So....you're starting over in a new unit that is going to be further away?


We hunted the Boulder mountain for many, many years without success. We moved to different spots almost each year, and sometimes we'd move camp in the middle of a hunt from one side of the mountain to the other. It took us a LONG time to finally find "our" spot, then learn that area well enough to be confident that we can find animals. But it took a long time.

You've spent a couple years on Pine Valley. You haven't had success -- but you have been learning the area. Some areas might be worth spending more time in, while others may not. Either way, you're learning the area. Are you really going to give up on it now, and start over in another unit?

I'm not saying you're making a bad decision. Maybe it's a good decision and you'll love the next unit you hunt -- that's for you to figure out. But don't throw away the experiences you've had on Pine Valley. Everything you've done has given you a better chance of success the next time you hunt that unit.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

colorcountrygunner said:


> If you have the time to come up north and maybe the funds to get a hotel for a night or two the extended up there might be worth a go. Especially if you are willing to shoot a doe. Plenty of info about the Wasatch extended all over the webs. Unfortunately, just like on your pine valley hunt even with the big tag reductions, you will have company.


LOTSSS of company.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

2full said:


> We used to hunt that a lot in the younger days before they screwed all of us in Iron County when they split it into 4 units. Now can't hunt it anymore. My place is in Zion unit.
> I miss running around on that hill, and being able to hunt Panquitch, and New Castle as well.
> Oh well 🤔


Yep. We'd hunt the archery on Boulder, spend a few days chasing deer in circles out on the Bald Ridges (Beaver), and maybe sit a pond on Bumblebee. Bumblebee was my first option for the muzzy hunt -- cruise over there on the way home from work. Rifle was about anywhere -- Pine Valley in the morning, Panguitch in the evening, Zion the next morning, SW desert for lunch, Beaver on the way home. The unit change really limits the amount of time i spend chasing deer. Maybe that's a good thing?


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## bsevans5 (Dec 13, 2017)

PBH said:


> Yep. We'd hunt the archery on Boulder, spend a few days chasing deer in circles out on the Bald Ridges (Beaver), and maybe sit a pond on Bumblebee. Bumblebee was my first option for the muzzy hunt -- cruise over there on the way home from work. Rifle was about anywhere -- Pine Valley in the morning, Panguitch in the evening, Zion the next morning, SW desert for lunch, Beaver on the way home. The unit change really limits the amount of time i spend chasing deer. Maybe that's a good thing?


wow, and I thought the PV unit was a lot of country. Running all over like you talk about...now THAT is a lot of land to cover!


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Our traditional hunting areas got divided when the state went to regions. The dividing line for the North East and Central regions went right through the middle of town. 

I remember hunting what is now the Book Cliffs, Wasatch East and Wasatch West during the same hunting season. Miss those days.


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