# Water purification?



## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

What do you fine folk use for water purification when back packing. I'm looking into doing some backpacking for the first time this summer and just wondering what works the best. Do you folks use filters with the pumps. tablets, boiling. Is there anything you wouldn't recommend. I probably won't go longer than a few days at a time. Thanks in advance.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have used an MSR sweetwater (I think that is the name) pump filter. Works great, when the filter gets dirty it is easy to clean, but slightly bulky in the pack.


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## marksman (Oct 4, 2007)

I have an msr miniworks as do some of my friends I really like it. There are 2 features that I like. 1 feild cleanable so if it gets jammed in the back woods and you don't have a replacement filter your not screwed. 2 screws onto the threads of common water bottles (nalgene) this allows one person to use it without setting your bottle down in the mud where it can tip over.

http://www.msrgear.com/watertreatment/miniworks.asp


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

I would not consider tablets or boiling except in an emergency or as a last resort. Sure they are the cheapest options, but not the best by a long shot. The problem with both of them is time. The tablets take anywhere from 30-60 minutes depending on water temp to safely neutralize ALL the potentially harmful organisms such as giardia, and then they leave a bad after taste in the water. There are additional tablets you can add to remove the bad taste but then you have to wait an additional 15-30 minutes. Boiling is also time consuming, especially at high elevations where it takes A LOT longer just to bring the water to a boil, plus you should boil it for at least 2-3 minutes to safely destroy ALL the potentially harmful organisms (giardia and kryptosporidium are tough to kill). Not only does this take anywhere from 15-45 minutes, but it uses up a lot of fuel if you are using a pack stove, which is the only option in many areas where campfires are prohibited. If you know there is spring water where you are going you can skip the treatments all together but you cant always rely on this even if you know where the springs are since they can also be seasonal. You must also be certain that the spring is coming right out of the ground, and not just coming out of a tunnel or hollow but is still exposed upstream. It must be right from the source to be considered absolutely safe. Snow melt is also usually safe as long as it has not been tracked around in and fouled by animals.

Having said all that, I think the filters are the best way to go by far, and I like the MSR models because they thread directly onto Nalgene style bottles. Not only is this more convenient for filling your water bottles but it also prevents contamination which you have to be careful of even if you are filtering your water. For longevity and easy maintenance I would get one with a ceramic filter which can be cleaned with a simple scouring pad.

I still carry tablets in my pack when I am just out hiking or hunting, but these are for emergency use. On a backpacking trip I always bring my filter. Whatever you do just make sure you are serious about treating your water before you drink it. Giardia is rampant in the Rockies because of all the sheep and cattle grazing, and if you get it you will be absolutely miserable and spewing out of both ends for weeks!!! _/O _/O _/O


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

You have to decide between the weight of a filter vs the the taste of the iodine. Iodine also stains your water bottles and the flavor will always be in the bottle (even if you use the neutralizer tab), so I maintain separate iodine and non-iodine water bottles.

Consequently, I'll take my filter on short jaunts, but once weight becomes a factor I take iodine. Temperature is another factor for filters, since they'll freeze up in winter situations.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

I've boiled water from a small stream before and the water tasted horrible. I found that if you take powdered gatorade and mix a little with the water it solved the problem. *Does water from a pump taste bad?* Would you recommend taking the gatorade?


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

I have never noticed a bad taste from my filter (MSR Miniworks). Certainly nothing like tablets. As far as boiling goes, the bad taste comes from the fact that the water has been de-oxygenated during the boiling process and that can be remedied by pouring the water back and forth between two containers several times. Of course, you also have to cool the water down somehow, and pouring hot boiling water from a pot to a water bottle can be a bit dangerous. In the past when I have used the boiling method I left it in the pot over night to cool down, then poured it into my bottles in the morning.

As far as Gatorade or other powders goes, I do bring them as well but more for the electrolytes than to remove any bad taste in the water, which as I said, I have never noticed from my filter. Its also nice to have something to drink other than plain water all the time.

As far as long distance treks and weight reduction goes, I dont buy the idea that there is a benefit to packing tablets instead of a filter. Yes, a filter ways a few ounces more, but when you consider the overwhelming benefits of a filter vs tablets these few ounces are more than justified. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that a filter can remove more than just harmful pathogens. A good ceramic filter also removes sediments from water that makes it murky and taste bad. This may not be a big deal if you are backpacking in the mountains where the water is usually crystal clear, but it is when you are in the desert and the water is anything but crystal clear.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> As far as Gatorade or other powders goes, I do bring them as well but more for the electrolytes than to remove any bad taste in the water.


I bring powders, but rarely gatorade. Again, it goes back to weight. On a weekend trip to the Uintas gatorade may not make much of a diff, but when you're spending a month somewhere, that turns into many pounds and a lot of bulk. Instead, I take Crystal Light. And the main reason is to help fight dehydration. At altitude, the process of acclimitization produces toxins which are more quickly flushed from the system by drinking a lot of fluids. And a little flavor in the water goes a long way.



WeakenedWarrior said:


> As far as long distance treks and weight reduction goes, I dont buy the idea that there is a benefit to packing tablets instead of a filter..


I've never seen one filter on any big mountains. Well, I take that back. One guy brought one on a trip to the Andes and wound up ditching it for 1) weight, and 2) because it was constantly clogging. As for the grit, I just toss the last swallow.

There's times when they're appropriate and times when they're impractical. In the pic below, taken at 20k with over 100 lbs on my back, the latter would apply.
[attachment=1:2nn88dp3]52C2-SingleCarryLoad.jpg[/attachment:2nn88dp3]

Here's a pic of me melting snow at 20k. It's around 0*F in the tent, enough to freeze any filter solid and render it useless. And I pill each quart container as I fill it. Why pill snowmelt? To mitigate risk when so much is at stake. [attachment=0:2nn88dp3]51C2MeltSnow.jpg[/attachment:2nn88dp3]

On your next trips, take both and see which you wind up using more. Even if you prefer the filter for your application, it's still a good idea to pack some pills along as a backup. They're so cheap and lightweight, that you can't go wrong having them along.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

Gumbo said:


> I bring powders, but rarely gatorade. Again, it goes back to weight. On a weekend trip to the Uintas gatorade may not make much of a diff, but when you're spending a month somewhere, that turns into many pounds and a lot of bulk. Instead, I take Crystal Light. And the main reason is to help fight dehydration. At altitude, the process of acclimitization produces toxins which are more quickly flushed from the system by drinking a lot of fluids. And a little flavor in the water goes a long way.


Sorry. I meant Gatorade powder. I would never pack Gatorade in its liquid form except for the first day, and then I would still pour it into my Nalgenes. But I bring the powder for precisely that same reason; to fight dehydration as well as give some flavor to the water. Crystal Light sounds like a good idea too.



Gumbo said:


> Here's a pic of me melting snow at 20k. It's around 0*F in the tent, enough to freeze any filter solid and render it useless. And I pill each quart container as I fill it.


Yes, I can see where a filter would be useless in EXTREME conditions like that. Pills would certainly make more sense under those conditions. As far as clogging goes though, a good ceramic filter should not be a problem as long as you clean it frequently. The more sedimented the water source, the more you will have to clean it, sometimes a couple times per quart in heavily sedimented water. Cleaning my filter is a simple matter of removing the ceramic filter element, rubbing it with a green pot-scrubber pad a few times, and then screwing it back in. It can literally be done in seconds, and I have filtered water from the Escalante, Colorado, Green, San Rafael and other sources that were all "too thick to drink, too thin to plow" and never had a problem with clogging.



Gumbo said:


> On your next trips, take both and see which you wind up using more. Even if you prefer the filter for your application, it's still a good idea to pack some pills along as a backup. They're so cheap and lightweight, that you can't go wrong having them along.


I do this already. Just like fire-starting methods, I believe in having a couple different methods of obtaining safe drinking water on any expedition, even the long ones where every ounce counts. Like you said, there may be extreme situations where one may not work and you need to fall back on another.

PS - Awesome pics! The Andes huh? Impressive!


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> Sorry. I meant Gatorade powder.


Yea, I knew you did. But even for a week-long trip that's a lot of powder. Anything with sugar in it will be bulky.



WeakenedWarrior said:


> Cleaning my filter is a simple matter of removing the ceramic filter element, rubbing it with a green pot-scrubber pad a few times, and then screwing it back in. It can literally be done in seconds, and I have filtered water from the Escalante, Colorado, Green, San Rafael and other sources that were all "too thick to drink, too thin to plow" and never had a problem with clogging.


Yea, I have the same MSR filter. I'd rather filter that water than pill it, too.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

I have a friend who swears by the new UV purification systems. Personally I haven't tried one out yet, but most of them work on 16 oz bottles.

http://www.backcountry.com/store/HYD000 ... turer.html

Very low bulk, no iodine taste. Has anyone on the forum tried one?


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Man you guys are great thanks alot.  I'm going to get the msr filter for sure. Now I'm going to highjack my own thread. I need a Sleeping pad. What size and brand do you recommend? And do you guys pack a pillow.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Big Agnes!

http://www.backcountry.com/store/BAG001 ... g-Pad.html

They have one designed to fit in a mummy bag too, I haven't tried it.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2008)

Elkhuntingfool said:


> Filters can and will break - tablets don't and won't. Plus the weight and bulk is worth the 30 minute wait.


You guys make it sound like they weigh ten pounds. My MSR Miniworks weighs 14 ounces and it fits in a small pocket on my pack. And over several years and many backpacking trips, from the High Uintas to Canyonlands, it has never failed and never clogged as long as I maintained it properly. And as I mentioned before, pills will not filter out sediments. I have used my filter on whitewater rafting trips on the Colorado and it was able to produce clear drinking water right from the river. Try that with pills. Still, I agree with Gumbo that it is wise to have a few pills on hand as backup just in case your filter doesn't work. And it probably won't work in extreme cold.



fixed blade said:


> I need a Sleeping pad. What size and brand do you recommend? And do you guys pack a pillow.


I usually pack a fleece jacket that makes a decent pillow. Personally I don't like the self-inflating pads. I have had too many of them get punctured or slowly deflate through the night. They are also pricey. Closed cell pads, on the other hand, are cheaper, lighter, and are virtually indestructible. I have a Therm-a-Rest RidgeRest and I really like it. Here's a link: http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/store ... d=12500226


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2008)

threshershark said:


> I have a friend who swears by the new UV purification systems. Personally I haven't tried one out yet, but most of them work on 16 oz bottles.
> 
> http://www.backcountry.com/store/HYD000 ... turer.html
> 
> Very low bulk, no iodine taste. Has anyone on the forum tried one?


Interesting. I have heard of these but never really looked into how they work. My only knock is that it looks like it has the same drawback as pills in that it treats the water but it doesn't filter out sediments. Go on an extended backpacking trip in the desert where the water sources are almost always muddy and you will appreciate this feature.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Weekend Warrior. those look kinda slim. Are they comfortable, or better yet would they work for a fat ass who already has a hard enough time sleeping in a bed  .(that's me by the way)


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2008)

Not really but they're better than sleeping on the ground. If you really need a lot of comfort you will probably be better off with a thicker self-inflating pad, but you will pay for it in price and in weight. Therm-a-rest is a good brand, but there are probably other good brands as well. Just get one that comes with a good stuff sack to protect it from punctures.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

For water purification, I usually just pack up a microwave oven with me, plug it into the nearest aspen, and viola!


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

I didn't realize aspens acted as generators. All be. I have heard of potato power before.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> I need a Sleeping pad. What size and brand do you recommend? And do you guys pack a pillow.


Thermarest for comfort. Ridgerest for insulation. I take both, put the ridgerest on the ice, then the thermarest on top, then my bag. The warmest bag in the world won't keep you warm without some closed-cell foam between you and the cold ground.

For a pillow, use a jacket or a coat.


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