# BYU -VS- Boise State



## HighNDry

I've noticed that the calm, mild-mannered Cougars always struggle when they play teams with speed and a half-crazed look in their eyes. I'm predicting that going into the smurf turf arena will be a very unpleasant experience for the boys of Brigham Young. I wouldn't be surprised to see the frothing, teeth gritting Broncos put a real beat down on Mendenhall's men. Once BSU gets the cougar chasing around it own tail and all the hissing, clawing, and spitting is over, I think you'll find the Cougs caughing up a fur ball and wondering what happened. It's not going to be pretty. I don't think it will be a 54-10 blowout like the Utes had last year, but if the Band of Brothers don't meet the Broncs with equal enthusiasm, it could be a long night and the Y will leave Idaho wondering why.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I agree. 35-14 Broncos.


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## GaryFish

Considering neither BYU or Utah has NEVER beat BSU, and they have the best home field record of any schools over the last 10 years, I'd have to agree with you. I think my beloved Cougs will return home 2-2.


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## Mr Muleskinner

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that the Utes would win there right now either. Not saying neither of them can't, it's just not very likely


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

Well, Riley Nelson lost the first half of this game all by himself. He continues to be the thorn in the BYU offense. He has no arm and makes horrendous decisions with the football. Perhaps good Riley will show his face long enough to eke out a win...


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## coyoteslayer

Fresh Hot Turnovers anyone?


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## Mr Muleskinner

Stupid stupid stupid.......... 2 point conversion? Wow!


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

Is there even a coach in the upstairs booth tonight? That was like a Gary Crowton decision. It would be interesting to know if that one were on Doman or Mendenhall.


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## coyoteslayer

They should have went for the extra point and won in OT stupid move BYU


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## JuddCT

BirdDogger said:


> Is there even a coach in the upstairs booth tonight? That was like a Gary Crowton decision. It would be interesting to know if that one were on Doman or Mendenhall.


head coach always has the veto. Even if Doman recommended it, that blunder lies squarely on the horse. What the heck was he thinking? Your defense is good and the other teams field goal kicker is worse than yours, Utah's, and Utah State's. Play for overtime and hope for the best. What a crappy game! I really wanted them to beat those smug Broncos.


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## Greenhead_Slayer

BirdDogger said:


> Well, Riley Nelson lost the first half of this game all by himself. He continues to be the thorn in the BYU offense. He has no arm and makes horrendous decisions with the football. Perhaps good Riley will show his face long enough to eke out a win...


Although I'm by no means a yBu fan, it is nice to see the in state teams do well. However, with Riley's crap, arrogant, overly confident, d-bag attitude I was really glad to see him fall apart like that. I hate to wish ill on someone else but he needed that humble pie big time. Right after the Ute game all he did was talk about how its ok to have 1 loss and they can still win the rest of their games. He needed that reality check.


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## Dodger

I have been trying not to get involved here because most of the people here that want to talk about BYU football want to talk about hating BYU football, to the extent that it isn't a lot of fun.

See Greenhead_slayer's comments above. You'd prefer someone without goals who is quiet and reserved? Someone who doesn't set winning as his goal? It is just like with CS, players like Riley are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

That's not fun to talk about. I've never understood why the people who hate BYU can't just move along and start their own threads.

But I digress. I liked the decision to go for 2 last night. There is nothing wrong with playing to win and we had a chance to do that from the 2 yard line. Boise demonstrated they could move the ball 20-25 yards per possession. While the defense was nothing short of spectacular, setting the defense up for another goal line stand is, in my opinion, at least as risky as going for 2. The Broncos could very well have scored with a 25 yard field, especially when they were willing to use 4 downs to do it. 

The Cougars beat the spread last night, and did better than most of you thought. Your grumbling about them exceeding expectations sounds a little tinny.


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## Greenhead_Slayer

Dodger said:


> I have been trying not to get involved here because most of the people here that want to talk about BYU football want to talk about hating BYU football, to the extent that it isn't a lot of fun.
> 
> See Greenhead_slayer's comments above. You'd prefer someone without goals who is quiet and reserved? Someone who doesn't set winning as his goal? It is just like with CS, players like Riley are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
> 
> That's not fun to talk about. I've never understood why the people who hate BYU can't just move along and start their own threads.
> 
> But I digress. I liked the decision to go for 2 last night. There is nothing wrong with playing to win and we had a chance to do that from the 2 yard line. Boise demonstrated they could move the ball 20-25 yards per possession. While the defense was nothing short of spectacular, setting the defense up for another goal line stand is, in my opinion, at least as risky as going for 2. The Broncos could very well have scored with a 25 yard field, especially when they were willing to use 4 downs to do it.
> 
> The Cougars beat the spread last night, and did better than most of you thought. Your grumbling about them exceeding expectations sounds a little tinny.


I'm all for setting realistic goals and achieving them, when they are realistic and you can back it up. Don't come out and talk about only losing 1 game then go play a first half like he did. Don't class me as a BYU hater either. I was hoping to see them finally beat a weaker Boise State team.


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## GaryFish

Going for 2 was a gutsy call. Do it and he's a genius. Fail and he's a goat. I liked the decision but didn't like the play call. But the center completely missed his block and the play fell apart. 

After the game, I switched over to BYU-TV to get the post game there. Sideline interviews with both Olgletree and Doman were very telling. Ogletree said something to the effect of "I guess that this next week, our focus will be on getting take-aways and finding ways to score on defense since our offense can't." And Doman's comments were what you'd expect out of a complete failure of a game. He owned that the offense (Riley) mistakes giving the other team a TD in each of the last two games, cost them those games. I guess the next question is to see how they react at this point. 

At the beginning of the season, most Cougar Fans I know figured they'd lose at least 2, and possible all 4 tough road games. So I'm not sure why anyone is surprised here. They were one play away in both games. 

Now four games in, I have the following observations:
-Doman as OC - As an option QB, he had Staley as his pitch man. Staley won the Doak Walker award. If you don't have a Staley kind of RB, don't run that. 
-No passes to the RBs - When Anae was here, roughly half the passes went to the running backs. Same thing under Chow if you go back and watch the old games. I don't know if Doman doesn't have that in the progression, or the QBs are good enough or coached well enough to get to that. But with no dump passes to the running backs, a huge chunk of offense is gone.
-Line play - With two NFL quality WRs, the line needs to man up and give some protection. Now that said, not knowing if the QB is going to turn tail and run, or sit in the pocket and throw, they are left in a bad spot. 
-On Mendenhall - Guys calling for his head need to take a chill. He has more 10 win seasons than Wittingham and Myer have at Utah combined. So he knows how to win. No need to panic and chase him out over two games that quite literally, could have gone either way. It is a game of inches and funny bounces. 
-On fans - Fans (and coaches) expecting undefeated seasons are unrealistic. Chances are this year, no team will go undefeated. At all. It is a VERY rare occassion so be realistic. And CougarFan needs to take a reality pill and realize that the structure of BYU Football as it is, will never be able to compete with what I'd call "Super Programs" that have hundred million dollar budgets, superior talent bases, and no salary cap for players or coaches. It is great to have the goal to win every game. Every team at every level should have that goal. But fans need to take a chill when it doesn't happen because in all reality, it is not realistic. 

BYU will be fine. They'll win enough games to go to San Diego for a meaningless bowl game. Just like 54 of the 56 other teams that will play in meaningless bowl games. And life will go on.


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## Dodger

Greenhead_Slayer said:


> I'm all for setting realistic goals and achieving them, when they are realistic and you can back it up. Don't come out and talk about only losing 1 game then go play a first half like he did. Don't class me as a BYU hater either. I was hoping to see them finally beat a weaker Boise State team.


No hard feelings, Greenhead_Slayer. I'm saying that those kinds of comments aren't fun not that you are a BYU hater. I don't think calling Riley a "d-bag" really gets us anywhere. From what I'm seeing in the news last night/this morning, he was hurt. What do you want from him? You want him to come out and say "Well, we lost this game, we'll probably lose a few more. Oh well."

I don't see anything wrong with, after the Utah game, setting a goal to go undefeated from there. It may have rubbed you the wrong way and that's fine.


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## jahan

I was rooting for BYU. From what I have been told by many of my friends who watched the game, it was a very poorly played game from both teams, hard to watch. I am a huge fan of BYU's defense, it just sucks that the offense can't figure things out. With two NFL quality receivers they need to figure out a way to get the ball to them and they need to utilize their running back more. Alisa is a stud and they need to get him the ball. Lastly, for whatever reason I catch myself rooting for Riley, I think that kid has a ton of heart. I really disliked him for a little while after he left USU, but I guess that is an easier pill to swallow with having Chuckie now.


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## willfish4food

GaryFish said:


> Going for 2 was a gutsy call. Do it and he's a genius. Fail and he's a goat. I liked the decision but didn't like the play call. But the center completely missed his block and the play fell apart.
> 
> After the game, I switched over to BYU-TV to get the post game there. Sideline interviews with both Olgletree and Doman were very telling. Ogletree said something to the effect of "I guess that this next week, our focus will be on getting take-aways and finding ways to score on defense since our offense can't." And Doman's comments were what you'd expect out of a complete failure of a game. He owned that the offense (Riley) mistakes giving the other team a TD in each of the last two games, cost them those games. I guess the next question is to see how they react at this point.
> 
> At the beginning of the season, most Cougar Fans I know figured they'd lose at least 2, and possible all 4 tough road games. So I'm not sure why anyone is surprised here. They were one play away in both games.
> 
> Now four games in, I have the following observations:
> -Doman as OC - As an option QB, he had Staley as his pitch man. Staley won the Doak Walker award. If you don't have a Staley kind of RB, don't run that.
> -No passes to the RBs - When Anae was here, roughly half the passes went to the running backs. Same thing under Chow if you go back and watch the old games. I don't know if Doman doesn't have that in the progression, or the QBs are good enough or coached well enough to get to that. But with no dump passes to the running backs, a huge chunk of offense is gone.
> -Line play - With two NFL quality WRs, the line needs to man up and give some protection. Now that said, not knowing if the QB is going to turn tail and run, or sit in the pocket and throw, they are left in a bad spot.
> -On Mendenhall - Guys calling for his head need to take a chill. He has more 10 win seasons than Wittingham and Myer have at Utah combined. So he knows how to win. No need to panic and chase him out over two games that quite literally, could have gone either way. It is a game of inches and funny bounces.
> -On fans - Fans (and coaches) expecting undefeated seasons are unrealistic. Chances are this year, no team will go undefeated. At all. It is a VERY rare occassion so be realistic. And CougarFan needs to take a reality pill and realize that the structure of BYU Football as it is, will never be able to compete with what I'd call "Super Programs" that have hundred million dollar budgets, superior talent bases, and no salary cap for players or coaches. It is great to have the goal to win every game. Every team at every level should have that goal. But fans need to take a chill when it doesn't happen because in all reality, it is not realistic.
> 
> BYU will be fine. They'll win enough games to go to San Diego for a meaningless bowl game. Just like 54 of the 56 other teams that will play in meaningless bowl games. And life will go on.


That deserves a second reading. Excellent post GF.


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## Catherder

A couple of comments.



GaryFish said:


> Doman as OC - As an option QB, he had Staley as his pitch man. Staley won the Doak Walker award. If you don't have a Staley kind of RB, don't run that.
> -No passes to the RBs - When Anae was here, roughly half the passes went to the running backs. Same thing under Chow if you go back and watch the old games. I don't know if Doman doesn't have that in the progression, or the QBs are good enough or coached well enough to get to that. But with no dump passes to the running backs, a huge chunk of offense is gone.


As an outsider/eeevil Utefan, it was a bit of a head scratcher when Anae was run out of town. I thought he did a good job with the personnel at his disposal. I wonder if there are some regrets now for that move?

Along similar lines, many cougarfans continue to complain about QB play. Heaps sucked, Riley sucks, etc, etc. And there is some justification for this. However, at what point might it be the coaching? Heaps had impressive natural tools. Riley is Riley, but hasn't seemed to improve a lot while in the program. If these guys aren't being coached up in good technique and ways to improve their skills, it isn't all their fault. Now maybe this Hill kid will work out better with Doman since Hill plays similarly to how Doman did. But if he sags into mediocrity as well, then maybe cougarfans need to look for other reasons than blaming the QB?


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## GaryFish

See Catherder - that is part of where I'm thinking. Doman could play the way he did because he had the single season best running back the school has ever seen playing behind him. BYU does not have that kind of running back. 

But more worrisome to me is the lack of willingness/scheme/ability to throw to the RB as a check-off. It was the same with Heaps and it is the same with Nelson. Those kind of dump passes do wonders to alleviate the pass rush and they open up the field a little bit. Doman didn't use that tool as a player. And I've not seen him use it as OC. But until they do, they are going to struggle big time. 

I didn't get why Anae was run out of town either. And in all reality, same deal with Ludwig on the hill. Both guys guided great offenses to 10+ win seasons - and they get run? Sometimes we don't know what we got 'til its gone. Then again, BYU ran Norm Chow out, and he went on to coach 3 guys to a Heisman Trophy and a couple of national championships. But that's OK because BYU brought in Crowton to replace him.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

A D1 quarterback has to have enough arm to make the throws. Riley does not. End of story. He succeeded against the WAC opponents last year. Heaps would have lit those teams up also. 

BYU changed their entire offensive scheme to fit Riley's style of play. BYU is now running option left and option right. Meanwhile, they have two of the most talented wideouts to ever wear the blue and white and they can't even get the ball to those guys. It's just sad to watch.


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## JuddCT

BirdDogger said:


> A D1 quarterback has to have enough arm to make the throws. Riley does not. End of story. He succeeded against the WAC opponents last year. Heaps would have lit those teams up also.
> 
> BYU changed their entire offensive scheme to fit Riley's style of play. BYU is now running option left and option right. Meanwhile, they have two of the most talented wideouts to ever wear the blue and white and they can't even get the ball to those guys. It's just sad to watch.


+1

I'm a Ute fan and I endorse this message!


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## wyoming2utah

Dodger said:


> Greenhead_Slayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for setting realistic goals and achieving them, when they are realistic and you can back it up. Don't come out and talk about only losing 1 game then go play a first half like he did. Don't class me as a BYU hater either. I was hoping to see them finally beat a weaker Boise State team.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you want from him? You want him to come out and say "Well, we lost this game, we'll probably lose a few more. Oh well."
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with, after the Utah game, setting a goal to go undefeated from there. It may have rubbed you the wrong way and that's fine.
Click to expand...

You don't? Hmmm...I am a Utah fan and have disliked BYU since I was a young kid in church and couldn't stomach all of the testimonies on BYU. So, admittedly, my viewpoint might be skewed. But, here goes...do you remember when Bronco was crucified a couple years ago with all of his talk of going undefeated? Yes/No? Maybe not? Doesn't matter...I look at it from a coaching perspective (because that's what I do...been a football, baseball, softball, and a high school basketball coach). My experience has taught me that no game is more important than the next one...in other words, Riley is kind of counting his chickens before they hatch so-to-speak. Instead of talking about "winning the rest", maybe he should have focused on the next one and took things one game at a time. Riley has rubbed me wrong ever since I saw him at the state high school football championships a few years ago...but, quotes like the one mentioned above just rub me even more wrong. Humble pie is exactly what he needed after that Boise State game...had I been the coach, Hill would have quarterbacked the Hawaii game even if Riley had not been injured!

So, "what do I want from him?" Well, what I would want is for him to come out and say, "We didn't perform well today and there are obviously some areas where we need to refocus and improve in. At this point, though, the season is still young and we will continue to work hard in practice and try to get better. And, after the upcoming week's practice, we expect to come out and perform better and beat Hawaii." But, talking about the "rest" of the games is looking way too far ahead...!


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## HighNDry

I never did like Riley. After watching him on the "Y" awards last year wearing his little hat and acting ****y, I really dislike him. He's what we referred to as "all mouth" back in the 70's. I knew guys like him. We had a guy who played basketball who basically sucked but every game he would throw up a bunch of long balls and once in a while one would go in and the fans would go nuts. That was before the 3 pointer was even in the game. Everyone talked about the one or two long balls but forget that the rest of his game sucked. 

I was disheartened when Anae was let go. I think he is much better than Doman. I watched the "Legends" show when it featured Doman. He tried to act Humble, but he's not that far off from the arrogance that Riley shows. I'm all for setting goals and working hard, but keep the mouth closed or a foot (your own or someone else's) usually ends up in it.


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## wyoming2utah

The funny thing is that I really respect Riley's competitive spirit...the guy's a warrior, but he needs to learn some humility and respect too. I think that won out with Riley in comparison with Heaps--Heaps was simply too laid back...he didn't have that fight and fiery competitive spirit that Riley has. Perhaps that ****iness is what has allowed Riley to get where he is at. I just wish he could learn to leave it on the field.


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## GaryFish

I have a little different perspective. I want the QB to be ****y. I want him to think he is the best, baddest guy on the field. I want him to think he can make every pass, beat every defense, and win every game. I want him in charge, knowing what to do, and what everyone else should be doing. I don't want humble in a QB.

But with that, means responsibility for your actions. No excuses. When you suck, realize it, admit it, and commit to getting better. 

Now all that said - you can be the biggest, baddest, strongest warrior on the field. But if you don't have the tools to win, you won't. The US Army battled many native tribes that were full of great leadership, bravery, and noble warriors. But when you have a repeating rifle and cannon and the other guy has a bow and arrow, no matter how bold or brave or great you are, you'll lose. Nelson is going into these games without a rifle, let alone a cannon, and his horse is crippled and he dropped his knife when crossing the stream. Doesn't mean he isn't a great warrior. But he is not equipped for battle and will lose.


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## wyoming2utah

GaryFish said:


> I have a little different perspective. I want the QB to be ****y. I want him to think he is the best, baddest guy on the field. I want him to think he can make every pass, beat every defense, and win every game. I want him in charge, knowing what to do, and what everyone else should be doing. I don't want humble in a QB.


On the field, I agree. It is off the field that I have a problem with him...that ****iness has probably allowed to him to progress and play at a level his skills wouldn't have allowed him!


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## HighNDry

Riley doesn't throw well for a Div 1 QB. It's been stated before: BYU has two great receivers Ross Apo and Cody Hoffman. These two would be having Heisman type numbers if BYU had a QB that could get the ball to them. Riley can scramble I'll give him that, but BYU's strength has always been in a QB that can get the ball out to receivers. 

I still think the Y has some internal strife. I don't think we know the real reason(s) Heaps left. Why did Juice Quezada a talented running-back leave? Could it be that BYU's offense, with a running QB named Riley, leave Quezada with less carries? He's been vague on why he left, but if I was a running-back and I knew the QB was not going to hand off as much to me because he likes to scramble--then I'm going to transfer to a place where I get more opportunity. 

In my opinion (and it isn't worth much), I think Doman is causing some ill feelings down there. He wasn't that great of a QB when he played. They needed to either keep Anae or look for a better offensive coordinator.


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## GaryFish

Quezada had some family issues and wanted to get back to California. His brother was killed a year ago and that hit him pretty hard. He also saw that Alisa was getting the most carries, and Williams was coming up strong. He did transfer to Fresno State, not exactly a mecca for NFL prospects, but close to his family.


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## proutdoors

GaryFish said:


> Quezada had some family issues and wanted to get back to California. His brother was killed a year ago and that hit him pretty hard. He also saw that Alisa was getting the most carries, and Williams was coming up strong. He did transfer to Fresno State, not exactly a mecca for NFL prospects, but close to his family.


Fresno has an alum starting RB for the Chargers....that is MORE than BYU has produced in the last two + decades.....


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## GaryFish

In recent years, BYU put 3 running backs on NFL rosters. Unga, Tonga, and Vakapuna all made NFL rosters. Unga got hurt and the Bears still kept him on payroll for an extra year to see how he'd recover. It didn't work out. But to say that one running back out of Fresno is more than BYU has produced is the last two decades is not correct. 

Aside from that, I hope Quezada has nothing but success at Fresno. He always seemed like a good kid.


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## Dodger

wyoming2utah said:


> Dodger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greenhead_Slayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for setting realistic goals and achieving them, when they are realistic and you can back it up. Don't come out and talk about only losing 1 game then go play a first half like he did. Don't class me as a BYU hater either. I was hoping to see them finally beat a weaker Boise State team.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you want from him? You want him to come out and say "Well, we lost this game, we'll probably lose a few more. Oh well."
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with, after the Utah game, setting a goal to go undefeated from there. It may have rubbed you the wrong way and that's fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't? Hmmm...I am a Utah fan and have disliked BYU since I was a young kid in church and couldn't stomach all of the testimonies on BYU. So, admittedly, my viewpoint might be skewed. But, here goes...do you remember when Bronco was crucified a couple years ago with all of his talk of going undefeated? Yes/No? Maybe not? Doesn't matter...I look at it from a coaching perspective (because that's what I do...been a football, baseball, softball, and a high school basketball coach). My experience has taught me that no game is more important than the next one...in other words, Riley is kind of counting his chickens before they hatch so-to-speak. Instead of talking about "winning the rest", maybe he should have focused on the next one and took things one game at a time. Riley has rubbed me wrong ever since I saw him at the state high school football championships a few years ago...but, quotes like the one mentioned above just rub me even more wrong. Humble pie is exactly what he needed after that Boise State game...had I been the coach, Hill would have quarterbacked the Hawaii game even if Riley had not been injured!
> 
> So, "what do I want from him?" Well, what I would want is for him to come out and say, "We didn't perform well today and there are obviously some areas where we need to refocus and improve in. At this point, though, the season is still young and we will continue to work hard in practice and try to get better. And, after the upcoming week's practice, we expect to come out and perform better and beat Hawaii." But, talking about the "rest" of the games is looking way too far ahead...!
Click to expand...

A. If you think that BYU is what a testimony is about, you've missed something. If someone in a meeting said that, you need to just let it go. BYU and the Church are one in the same. BYU doesn't exist or operate separate from the Church. If that makes you insecure, that's something you've put on yourself. It doesn't come from Cougars saying stupid things in church.

B. Prosecutors don't go to defense counsel for suggestions on how to manage their case. I don't care if you don't like Riley. As a Ute, I'm not interested in your advice for how to better our football program. Riley is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in your eyes. There is no pleasing you so, why try?

If he comes out and says "we have improvements to make," you aren't satisfied. If he read the script you wrote for him, it still wouldn't make you happy.

The philosophy at BYU doesn't work for you. That doesn't make it self-righteous or "holier-than-thou," it just makes it different. As I said before, if that makes you feel insecure, that's something you've put on yourself.

The bottom line is, why don't you Ute fans just talk about your team in your own threads? It seems all you want to talk about is hating BYU in BYU threads.


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## coyoteslayer

> A. If you think that BYU is what a testimony is about, you've missed something. If someone in a meeting said that, you need to just let it go. *BYU and the Church are one in the same. BYU doesn't exist or operate separate from the Church.* If that makes you insecure, that's something you've put on yourself. It doesn't come from Cougars saying stupid things in church.


BYU and the Church are not the same in a lot of ways. BYU players don't represent the church when they drop the F-bombs constantly during games. BYU players don't represent the church when they get pulled over for DUIs. BYU players don't represent the church when they have sex with their girlfriends. 4 BYU players this year don't represent the church by each taking turns feeling a woman's boobs. etc etc etc. The church expects men and women to be better than this. I know President Monson doesn't like this type of behavior. He would be embarassed. The Church teaches people to live a higher standard. You can see why a lot of Ute fans who are Mormons get tired of the holier than thou BYU fans.


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## Dodger

coyoteslayer said:


> A. If you think that BYU is what a testimony is about, you've missed something. If someone in a meeting said that, you need to just let it go. *BYU and the Church are one in the same. BYU doesn't exist or operate separate from the Church.* If that makes you insecure, that's something you've put on yourself. It doesn't come from Cougars saying stupid things in church.
> 
> 
> 
> BYU and the Church are not the same in a lot of ways. BYU players don't represent the church when they drop the F-bombs constantly during games. BYU players don't represent the church when they get pulled over for DUIs. BYU players don't represent the church when they have sex with their girlfriends. 4 BYU players this year don't represent the church by each taking turns feeling a woman's boobs. etc etc etc. The church expects men and women to be better than this. I know President Monson doesn't like this type of behavior. He would be embarassed. The Church teaches people to live a higher standard. You can see why a lot of Ute fans who are Mormons get tired of the holier than thou BYU fans.
Click to expand...

CS, even someone as dishonest as you can see that BYU the institution is not the same as BYU players. There are members of the Church everywhere that make mistakes but they don't "represent" the Church. Furthermore, that has nothing to do with "holier than thou" BYU fans. You're talking about 3 different groups and maligning all of them for the actions of the other groups. That doesn't even make sense.

I'm not saying that players don't make mistakes. They do and they are penalized for not living up to commitments they made.

You are really hypocritical, you know it? You come here and get in a huff about football being 5th on the priority list and get twisted shorts when I've talked about BYU setting a higher standard for its athletes. Yet, you are first in line to criticize players when they fall short of the mark. You even memorize their list of indiscretions.

I seem to remember something somewhere about a beam, a mote, and an eye. You should check that out again.


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## Dodger

CS, I see you or someone else deleted your post before I could adequately respond. 

But, to answer your questions, it is dishonest to say that Ute Fans who are Mormon don't like "holier than thou" BYU fans because some players don't live up to some church standards. There is no causal relationship there. The players' actions have nothing to do with "holier than thou" fans, if such a thing exists. Pres. Hinckley said that the goal of the Church is to make bad men good and good men better. Should members strive for perfection, yes. But, it isn't fair to castigate the entire church, university, players, and fans for the actions of some members that fall short of that goal and it is dishonest to lump them together.

As for certain players not being penalized for their indiscretions, I don't stick my nose in to see what they actually did. I do have faith that the Athletic Department, the Football Program, and the University apply penalties where and when they are needed. BYU would rather not field a football team at all than have a team that can't follow the institutional rules. You may think that is terrible, in fact, I know you do because you say it here all the time. Even if that goal is unachievable, I think it still has a noble purpose and I support it wholeheartedly.

I've only said that BYU fans and Utah fans shouldn't be as nasty as things have gotten since the Urban Meyer era and we shouldn't refer to the rivalry as a "Holy War" - an "us" against "them" kind of thing. I've not said that we should hold hands and sing "kumbaya" around the campfire instead of playing football. What I have said is that Utah fans shouldn't constantly intrude on BYU threads to tear BYU down. If Utah fans want to hate BYU, they should do it in their own threads. The problem is that the Utah threads don't go anywhere and the BYU hate threads like your Hitler-54/10 thread get no responses. Maybe you should take the hint.


----------



## coyoteslayer

-_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O-



> I've only said that BYU fans and Utah fans shouldn't be as nasty as things have gotten since the Urban Meyer era and we shouldn't refer to the rivalry as a "Holy War" - an "us" against "them" kind of thing. I've not said that we should hold hands and sing "kumbaya" around the campfire instead of playing football. What I have said is that Utah fans shouldn't constantly intrude on BYU threads to tear BYU down. If Utah fans want to hate BYU, they should do it in their own threads. The problem is that the Utah threads don't go anywhere and the BYU hate threads like your Hitler-54/10 thread get no responses. Maybe you should take the hint


What is wrong will calling the rivalry a "Holy War?" You're just as bad as the current administration where they don't like people saying "War on Terrorists". People can call it whatever they would like regardless if you're sensitive or not. BYU fans spend a lot of time on ESPN spewing their hate towards Ute fans so don't pretend that BYU doesn't say anything bad. Ute fans aren't the only ones spreading the hate. See you believe that BYU fans are better than Ute fans because you're a hypocrite. I like to post things about BYU because of people like you who get all riled up with your panties in a knot.



> As for certain players not being penalized for their indiscretions, I don't stick my nose in to see what they actually did. I do have faith that the Athletic Department, the Football Program, and the University apply penalties where and when they are needed. BYU would rather not field a football team at all than have a team that can't follow the institutional rules. You may think that is terrible, in fact, I know you do because you say it here all the time. Even if that goal is unachievable, I think it still has a noble purpose and I support it wholeheartedly.
> 
> The coaches have known a lot of issues with players, but they never do anything about it. Every once in a while a player gets punished, but overall they don't.





> But, to answer your questions, it is dishonest to say that Ute Fans who are Mormon don't like "holier than thou" BYU fans because some players don't live up to some church standards. There is no causal relationship there. The players' actions have nothing to do with "holier than thou" fans, if such a thing exists. Pres. Hinckley said that the goal of the Church is to make bad men good and good men better. Should members strive for perfection, yes. But, it isn't fair to castigate the entire church, university, players, and fans for the actions of some members that fall short of that goal and it is dishonest to lump them together.
> 
> A lot of BYU fans are just as bad as BYU players. They are hypocites and many don't live up to the honor code. They are mormons on Sunday. A lot of BYU fans/students put on a show during Church, but then they return to their vomit as soon as church is over. I know I'm not perfect, but I don't go around saying I'm "holier than thou" Even President Monson is a Ute fan


 -O|o- -O|o-


----------



## GaryFish

I kind of think it is funny that BYU haters say that BYU won't enforce their own rules, when BYU dismissed the best running back in school history for failure to follow institutional rules. If ever there was a time to look past the rules, that would have been it. 

And for the record, if it matters, Pres. Monson is neither a Ute or Cougar Fan. He is a Michigan fan. But that said, his signature does appear on the bottom of degrees awarded by THE Brigham Young University.


----------



## coyoteslayer

> I kind of think it is funny that BYU haters say that BYU won't enforce their own rules, when BYU dismissed the best running back in school history for failure to follow institutional rules. If ever there was a time to look past the rules, that would have been it.
> 
> Maybe you didn't read, but I said sometimes they enforce the rules and sometimes BYU doesn't. A lot of BYU fans will say that Ute fans are drug addicts, beer drinking, uneducated people when some BYU fans have all of these same problems
> 
> And for the record, if it matters, Pres. Monson is neither a Ute or Cougar Fan. He is a Michigan fan. But that said, his signature does appear on the bottom of degrees awarded by THE Brigham Young University
> 
> Of course he is going to put his signature down at the Brigham Young University as you know the reason why. Pres. Monson is a Ute fan otherwise he wouldn't go to their games when he gets a chance


----------



## GaryFish

Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Dodger

coyoteslayer said:


> -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've only said that BYU fans and Utah fans shouldn't be as nasty as things have gotten since the Urban Meyer era and we shouldn't refer to the rivalry as a "Holy War" - an "us" against "them" kind of thing. I've not said that we should hold hands and sing "kumbaya" around the campfire instead of playing football. What I have said is that Utah fans shouldn't constantly intrude on BYU threads to tear BYU down. If Utah fans want to hate BYU, they should do it in their own threads. The problem is that the Utah threads don't go anywhere and the BYU hate threads like your Hitler-54/10 thread get no responses. Maybe you should take the hint
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong will calling the rivalry a "Holy War?" You're just as bad as the current administration where they don't like people saying "War on Terrorists". People can call it whatever they would like regardless if you're sensitive or not. BYU fans spend a lot of time on ESPN spewing their hate towards Ute fans so don't pretend that BYU doesn't say anything bad. Ute fans aren't the only ones spreading the hate. See you believe that BYU fans are better than Ute fans because you're a hypocrite. I like to post things about BYU because of people like you who get all riled up with your panties in a knot.
> 
> I object to the term "Holy War" because it implies that the FOOTBALL game is about religion. As a Mormon I am not against anyone else that isn't Mormon specifically BECAUSE they aren't Mormon. Football doesn't have a religion. Football is not the Crusades. I'm not against the Utes because I'm a Mormon and some of them aren't. The football game is a football game, blue vs. red, and not a Mormons vs. non-mormons affair. Pitting the populace against Mormons hasn't worked out for us well, historically speaking. Why would we try to foment those sentiments again?
> 
> I don't have to like the U or Ute fans to dislike the U or its fans, assuming that was the case. And I certainly don't dislike them because I'm a Mormon. I don't think anyone should be spreading any hate anywhere. All I've asked is that if you are going to hate BYU to do it in your own threads.
> 
> I defy you to show me where I said that I believe BYU fans are better than Utah fans.
> 
> [quote:1ky0fx7b]As for certain players not being penalized for their indiscretions, I don't stick my nose in to see what they actually did. I do have faith that the Athletic Department, the Football Program, and the University apply penalties where and when they are needed. BYU would rather not field a football team at all than have a team that can't follow the institutional rules. You may think that is terrible, in fact, I know you do because you say it here all the time. Even if that goal is unachievable, I think it still has a noble purpose and I support it wholeheartedly.
> 
> The coaches have known a lot of issues with players, but they never do anything about it. Every once in a while a player gets punished, but overall they don't.
Click to expand...

You're full of it. And, who are you to be the judge, jury, and executioner from the outside looking in. The people that are there and are responsible for the program are in a much better place to mete out justice and punishment than you are. You don't know the full story and you're ready to assume anyone accused of anything is guilty. Like I said, you don't have the University's, it's players', or it's football fans' best interest at heart so I your "advice" sounds a little tinny. 



> But, to answer your questions, it is dishonest to say that Ute Fans who are Mormon don't like "holier than thou" BYU fans because some players don't live up to some church standards. There is no causal relationship there. The players' actions have nothing to do with "holier than thou" fans, if such a thing exists. Pres. Hinckley said that the goal of the Church is to make bad men good and good men better. Should members strive for perfection, yes. But, it isn't fair to castigate the entire church, university, players, and fans for the actions of some members that fall short of that goal and it is dishonest to lump them together.
> 
> A lot of BYU fans are just as bad as BYU players. They are hypocites and many don't live up to the honor code. They are mormons on Sunday. A lot of BYU fans/students put on a show during Church, but then they return to their vomit as soon as church is over. I know I'm not perfect, but I don't go around saying I'm "holier than thou" Even President Monson is a Ute fan


That's totally different from what you said before. But, I have two things to say in response. 1. The honor code doesn't apply to members of the church. The honor code is much more strict than any of the doctrines of the church in most cases. 2. Who are you, again, to judge anyone else, especially as to how well they live the doctrines of the Church? Remember that making bad men good and good men better point? Only the sick have need of the physician.

How do you think President Monson likes people putting him between the Church and his alma mater by calling the football game a Holy War.

I know President Monson, personally. I've been in his home on a number of occasions and he in mine. Quit speaking for him and putting him in the middle of YOUR football problems. He's very capable of speaking for himself.

-O|o- -O|o-[/quote:1ky0fx7b]


----------



## Dodger

coyoteslayer said:


> Maybe you didn't read, but I said sometimes they enforce the rules and sometimes BYU doesn't. A lot of BYU fans will say that Ute fans are drug addicts, beer drinking, uneducated people when some BYU fans have all of these same problems
> 
> Of course he is going to put his signature down at the Brigham Young University as you know the reason why. Pres. Monson is a Ute fan otherwise he wouldn't go to their games when he gets a chance


You seriously need to get out more, a lot more.


----------



## coyoteslayer

Dodger said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've only said that BYU fans and Utah fans shouldn't be as nasty as things have gotten since the Urban Meyer era and we shouldn't refer to the rivalry as a "Holy War" - an "us" against "them" kind of thing. I've not said that we should hold hands and sing "kumbaya" around the campfire instead of playing football. What I have said is that Utah fans shouldn't constantly intrude on BYU threads to tear BYU down. If Utah fans want to hate BYU, they should do it in their own threads. The problem is that the Utah threads don't go anywhere and the BYU hate threads like your Hitler-54/10 thread get no responses. Maybe you should take the hint
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong will calling the rivalry a "Holy War?" You're just as bad as the current administration where they don't like people saying "War on Terrorists". People can call it whatever they would like regardless if you're sensitive or not. BYU fans spend a lot of time on ESPN spewing their hate towards Ute fans so don't pretend that BYU doesn't say anything bad. Ute fans aren't the only ones spreading the hate. See you believe that BYU fans are better than Ute fans because you're a hypocrite. I like to post things about BYU because of people like you who get all riled up with your panties in a knot.
> 
> I object to the term "Holy War" because it implies that the FOOTBALL game is about religion. Yes, this is only your opinion As a Mormon I am not against anyone else that isn't Mormon specifically BECAUSE they aren't Mormon. Football doesn't have a religion. Football is not the Crusades. I'm not against the Utes because I'm a Mormon and some of them aren't. The football game is a football game, blue vs. red, and not a Mormons vs. non-mormons affair. Pitting the populace against Mormons hasn't worked out for us well, historically speaking. Why would we try to foment those sentiments again?
> 
> Fans of either team can call the rivalry whatever they want to call it. Your have your opinion about the rivalry which is fine, but you don't need to force your ideas on others by saying fans shouldn't call it a "Holy War."
> 
> I don't have to like the U or Ute fans to dislike the U or its fans, assuming that was the case. And I certainly don't dislike them because I'm a Mormon. I don't think anyone should be spreading any hate anywhere. All I've asked is that if you are going to hate BYU to do it in your own threads.
> 
> I defy you to show me where I said that I believe BYU fans are better than Utah fans.
> 
> You constantly spew this pile of vomit.
> 
> [quote:gj8v2f16]As for certain players not being penalized for their indiscretions, I don't stick my nose in to see what they actually did. I do have faith that the Athletic Department, the Football Program, and the University apply penalties where and when they are needed. BYU would rather not field a football team at all than have a team that can't follow the institutional rules. You may think that is terrible, in fact, I know you do because you say it here all the time. Even if that goal is unachievable, I think it still has a noble purpose and I support it wholeheartedly.
> 
> The coaches have known a lot of issues with players, but they never do anything about it. Every once in a while a player gets punished, but overall they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're full of it. And, who are you to be the judge, jury, and executioner from the outside looking in. The people that are there and are responsible for the program are in a much better place to mete out justice and punishment than you are. You don't know the full story and you're ready to assume anyone accused of anything is guilty. Like I said, you don't have the University's, it's players', or it's football fans' best interest at heart so I your "advice" sounds a little tinny.
> 
> I have a lot of great sources from some of the top people at BYU
> 
> [quote:gj8v2f16]But, to answer your questions, it is dishonest to say that Ute Fans who are Mormon don't like "holier than thou" BYU fans because some players don't live up to some church standards. There is no causal relationship there. The players' actions have nothing to do with "holier than thou" fans, if such a thing exists. Pres. Hinckley said that the goal of the Church is to make bad men good and good men better. Should members strive for perfection, yes. But, it isn't fair to castigate the entire church, university, players, and fans for the actions of some members that fall short of that goal and it is dishonest to lump them together.
> 
> A lot of BYU fans are just as bad as BYU players. They are hypocites and many don't live up to the honor code. They are mormons on Sunday. A lot of BYU fans/students put on a show during Church, but then they return to their vomit as soon as church is over. I know I'm not perfect, but I don't go around saying I'm "holier than thou" Even President Monson is a Ute fan
Click to expand...

That's totally different from what you said before. But, I have two things to say in response. 1. The honor code doesn't apply to members of the church. The honor code is much more strict than any of the doctrines of the church in most cases. 2. Who are you, again, to judge anyone else, especially as to how well they live the doctrines of the Church? Remember that making bad men good and good men better point? Only the sick have need of the physician.

The honor code isn't very strict.

How do you think President Monson likes people putting him between the Church and his alma mater by calling the football game a Holy War.

I know President Monson, personally. I've been in his home on a number of occasions and he in mine. Quit speaking for him and putting him in the middle of YOUR football problems. He's very capable of speaking for himself.

I have been in the same temple room as President Monson. I have been to family parties with President Monson being there. I have had the chance to talk to him quite a great deal over the years. He married two of my cousins in the temple so I can quote him about which team he likes the best.

-O|o- -O|o-[/quote:gj8v2f16][/quote:gj8v2f16]


----------



## coyoteslayer

Dodger said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you didn't read, but I said sometimes they enforce the rules and sometimes BYU doesn't. A lot of BYU fans will say that Ute fans are drug addicts, beer drinking, uneducated people when some BYU fans have all of these same problems
> 
> Of course he is going to put his signature down at the Brigham Young University as you know the reason why. Pres. Monson is a Ute fan otherwise he wouldn't go to their games when he gets a chance
> 
> 
> 
> You seriously need to get out more, a lot more.
Click to expand...

You need to get your panties untied from the "Holy War"

If one of your kids accidently slips and said "Holy War" in your house then would wash his mouth out with soap?


----------



## coyoteslayer

> I object to the term "Holy War" because it implies that the FOOTBALL game is about religion. As a Mormon I am not against anyone else that isn't Mormon specifically BECAUSE they aren't Mormon. Football doesn't have a religion. Football is not the Crusades. I'm not against the Utes because I'm a Mormon and some of them aren't. The football game is a football game, blue vs. red, and not a Mormons vs. non-mormons affair. Pitting the populace against Mormons hasn't worked out for us well, historically speaking. Why would we try to foment those sentiments again?


Some people view hunting or football as a religion. It's more than just a hobby to them. The might Utes are living better on and off the field because they have 3 straight wins. The Utes have won 8 of the last 11 games. Maybe BYU needs to repent of their evil ways and start living right so they can win some football games against there "Holy War" opponent.

Many BYU fans who are Mormons believe somehow they are better then a lot of Ute fans who are Mormon. I don't hate BYU, but I think BYU players should own up to a lot of their mistakes. Most are ex-missionaries. I don't think they should get the easy way out because of their talent. Of course they aren't perfect, but they should be treated like every other student at BYU.


----------



## proutdoors

coyoteslayer said:


> *Many BYU fans who are Mormons believe somehow they are better then a lot of Ute fans who are Mormon.* I don't hate BYU, but I think BYU players should own up to a lot of their mistakes. Most are ex-missionaries. I don't think they should get the easy way out because of their talent. Of course they aren't perfect, but they should be treated like every other student at BYU.


You know I consider you a very good friend, BUT, the single biggest thing that drove me to dislike the U was their Mormon fans who constantly bring up the highlighted part of your comment....as they then try and tell me how they are 'better; Mormons for being Ute fans. I honestly cheered for the U until I attended the U, and it was the Mormon Ute fans that are Mormon! I HATE the religious aspect of this rivalry, one of the few things I truly HATE!!


----------



## coyoteslayer

proutdoors said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Many BYU fans who are Mormons believe somehow they are better then a lot of Ute fans who are Mormon.* I don't hate BYU, but I think BYU players should own up to a lot of their mistakes. Most are ex-missionaries. I don't think they should get the easy way out because of their talent. Of course they aren't perfect, but they should be treated like every other student at BYU.
> 
> 
> 
> You know I consider you a very good friend, BUT, the single biggest thing that drove me to dislike the U was their Mormon fans who constantly bring up the highlighted part of your comment....as they then try and tell me how they are 'better; Mormons for being Ute fans. I honestly cheered for the U until I attended the U, and it was the Mormon Ute fans that are Mormon! I HATE the religious aspect of this rivalry, one of the few things I truly HATE!!
Click to expand...

Yeah I consider you a very good friend also. My experience is very similar to yours, but it happened when I was at BYU. I saw a lot of BYU students that thought they were high and mighty because they were going to the "Lord" University. I was the Executive Secretary in one of the BYU wards and I wasn't to impressed with a lot of crap that was going on.


----------



## Dodger

coyoteslayer said:


> Fans of either team can call the rivalry whatever they want to call it. Your have your opinion about the rivalry which is fine, but you don't need to force your ideas on others by saying fans shouldn't call it a "Holy War."


Your argument strategy gets really old. You make ridiculous accusations which I demonstrate are false and then fail to respond to what I said. I haven't forced anything on anyone. I don't think it is good for anyone to have a mormon vs. non-mormon day in Utah. That's not forcing it on anyone and to say that it is is dishonest.



coyoteslayer said:


> Dodger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have to like the U or Ute fans to dislike the U or its fans, assuming that was the case. And I certainly don't dislike them because I'm a Mormon. I don't think anyone should be spreading any hate anywhere. All I've asked is that if you are going to hate BYU to do it in your own threads.
> 
> I defy you to show me where I said that I believe BYU fans are better than Utah fans. [/color]
> 
> 
> 
> You constantly spew this pile of vomit.
Click to expand...

Can't do it huh?



coyoteslayer said:


> I have a lot of great sources from some of the top people at BYU


Pathetic.



coyoteslayer said:


> The honor code isn't very strict.


Then maybe you can show me the scripture that says men and women have to be out of each other's apartments by midnight.



coyoteslayer said:


> I have been in the same temple room as President Monson. I have been to family parties with President Monson being there. I have had the chance to talk to him quite a great deal over the years. He married two of my cousins in the temple so I can quote him about which team he likes the best.


So what? Answer the question since you know him so well. How does he feel about being a Mormon vs. Non-mormon day over a football game?


----------



## Dodger

coyoteslayer said:


> Some people view hunting or football as a religion. It's more than just a hobby to them. The might Utes are living better on and off the field because they have 3 straight wins. The Utes have won 8 of the last 11 games. Maybe BYU needs to repent of their evil ways and start living right so they can win some football games against there "Holy War" opponent.
> 
> Many BYU fans who are Mormons believe somehow they are better then a lot of Ute fans who are Mormon. I don't hate BYU, but I think BYU players should own up to a lot of their mistakes. Most are ex-missionaries. I don't think they should get the easy way out because of their talent. Of course they aren't perfect, but they should be treated like every other student at BYU.


How do you know they are excused from the Honor Code? Oh, you're "top level" sources, right? Come on. You have no idea what you are talking about.

And as far as BYU fans thinking they are better than Mormon Ute fans, you are full of it. You project what you *think* BYU fans are thinking on to them and get yourself in a tizzy about it. If you can't reconcile your membership with your football team, that's on you, not on BYU fans. Fighting over who is a better Mormon has nothing to do with football and leaves us all blind and toothless.

You have a pretty cynical view of a lot of people who believe in the Church and aren't perfect in their observance of church doctrines. Maybe you ought to give some of them the benefit of the doubt, it is what Jesus would do.


----------



## Dodger

coyoteslayer said:


> You need to get your panties untied from the "Holy War"
> 
> If one of your kids accidently slips and said "Holy War" in your house then would wash his mouth out with soap?


Ok, explain to me why pitting Mormons against non-mormons is a good idea? Or, tell me how it is a good thing to exacerbate the differences between us by calling it a "Holy War." Explain how an "us against them" is a good thing?

Explain how one team beating another has anything to do with the Church and who is right/wrong or who is a better Mormon than another.

It is football, it's not that important.


----------



## coyoteslayer

Dodger said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fans of either team can call the rivalry whatever they want to call it. Your have your opinion about the rivalry which is fine, but you don't need to force your ideas on others by saying fans shouldn't call it a "Holy War."
> 
> 
> 
> Your argument strategy gets really old. You make ridiculous accusations which I demonstrate are false and then fail to respond to what I said. I haven't forced anything on anyone. I don't think it is good for anyone to have a mormon vs. non-mormon day in Utah. That's not forcing it on anyone and to say that it is is dishonest.
> 
> Hello Kettle your ridiculous statements get old too. You haven't proven anything to be false. It's never been a mormon versus non-mormon day. A lot of Ute fans are mormons. There are a lot of non-mormons who like the BYU/Ute football teams also. You don't like the rivalry being called a "Holy War" so you don't think other people should call it that either or are you being dishonest again.
> 
> 
> 
> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dodger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have to like the U or Ute fans to dislike the U or its fans, assuming that was the case. And I certainly don't dislike them because I'm a Mormon. I don't think anyone should be spreading any hate anywhere. All I've asked is that if you are going to hate BYU to do it in your own threads.
> 
> I defy you to show me where I said that I believe BYU fans are better than Utah fans. [/color]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's all there is your garbage that you wrote. You should remember what you wrote instead of asking me to point it out to you. Did you edit your post again?
> 
> You constantly spew this pile of vomit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't do it huh?
> 
> 
> 
> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a lot of great sources from some of the top people at BYU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pathetic.
> 
> How does it taste coming out of your mouth?
> 
> 
> 
> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> The honor code isn't very strict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then maybe you can show me the scripture that says men and women have to be out of each other's apartments by midnight.
> 
> I don't find that to be a very strict rule, but I remember once upon a time you had some major problems with the honor code.
> 
> 
> 
> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been in the same temple room as President Monson. I have been to family parties with President Monson being there. I have had the chance to talk to him quite a great deal over the years. He married two of my cousins in the temple so I can quote him about which team he likes the best.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what? Answer the question since you know him so well. How does he feel about being a Mormon vs. Non-mormon day over a football game?
> 
> Pres. Monson realizes that it's not a mormon versus non mormon day. Frankly, I don't think he really cares if it was called a "Holy War" or not. He worries about a lot more important things.
Click to expand...


----------



## coyoteslayer

Dodger said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some people view hunting or football as a religion. It's more than just a hobby to them. The might Utes are living better on and off the field because they have 3 straight wins. The Utes have won 8 of the last 11 games. Maybe BYU needs to repent of their evil ways and start living right so they can win some football games against there "Holy War" opponent.
> 
> Many BYU fans who are Mormons believe somehow they are better then a lot of Ute fans who are Mormon. I don't hate BYU, but I think BYU players should own up to a lot of their mistakes. Most are ex-missionaries. I don't think they should get the easy way out because of their talent. Of course they aren't perfect, but they should be treated like every other student at BYU.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know they are excused from the Honor Code? Oh, you're "top level" sources, right? Come on. You have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> You make me laugh. Is the reason you don't believe is because it's coming from a Ute fan? I use to like BYU growing up, but not anymore.
> 
> And as far as BYU fans thinking they are better than Mormon Ute fans, you are full of it.No. I'm full of empanadas right now. You project what you *think* BYU fans are thinking on to them and get yourself in a tizzy about it. If you can't reconcile your membership with your football team, that's on you, not on BYU fans.hahaha my membership? Fighting over who is a better Mormon has nothing to do with football and leaves us all blind and toothless.
> 
> Then why does BYU do it all the time especially during testimony meetings at BYU? That isn't a testimony
> 
> You have a pretty cynical view of a lot of people who believe in the Church and aren't perfect in their observance of church doctrines. Maybe you ought to give some of them the benefit of the doubt, it is what Jesus would do
> 
> Jesus whipped a lot of people in the temple so whatever he chooses to do with some of the filthy BYU players who are saints until they are behind closes doors. At least one of them isn't afraid to act normal in public by dropping an F-bomb to a reporter..I wonder what Pres. Monson thinks of this fine athlete?
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## coyoteslayer

I have a few friends that live in Idaho. They hear a lot of retarded BYU fans saying they're better Mormons than Boise State Mormon fans also. I'm not sure why some BYU fans feel the need to spew their garbage about who is better mormons. I believe that's one of the reason why it was called a "Holy War."


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## GaryFish

Haters gonna hate.


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## Dodger

CS, you are crazy and I'm sick of trying to reason with you because you just can't fix irrational.

Just to be clear, my problems with the Honor Code are that the Honor Code is more strict than the Church's teachings. It has "catch all" provisions that make anything BYU wants to be in the Honor Code in the Honor Code whether it actually says it or not and they apply it accordingly. I did not have a problem living the Honor Code.

Your blanket statements are tired. "People say BYU is the Lord's university during testimony meeting *all* the time." You get twisted up in all this stupid religious stuff about football. You are applying a religious aspect to football that just isn't there. And if it is there, you've put it there. You are seriously 3 years old about tattling on a player who said a bad word.

So you think the "Holy War" means that we are pitting BYU mormons against U of U mormons? That must be the reason for beer based fights at RES during the game. That must be the reason that people put anti-mormon signs in their windows before the game. You live in a fantasy land that you've imagined for yourself.

And give up the throwing up analogies. Spew, vomit, etc. It's old. Find a thesaurus if you need to.


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## Dodger

Classic. When you lose the argument, insult, via PM, where it is permitted:



> coyoteslayer wrote: The honor code isn't very strict.
> 
> 
> 
> Dodger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then maybe you can show me the scripture that says men and women have to be out of each other's apartments by midnight.
> 
> 
> 
> It also doesn't say in the scriptures that missionaries need to be in their homes at 9:30pm and to bed by 10:30pm and up by 6:00am either so what is your point? The rules aren't strict, but let me guess........You were one of the dead beat elders that only went on their missions so they could make their parents happy and not look like a loser at Church?
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## GaryFish

Anything else about the BYU-Boise State game to discuss? If not then lets leave the religious discussion for another place please. 

Thanks guys.


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