# Utah and the PAC 12



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

TCU sent a very strong messsage to both BYU and Utah that their football programs, while good, are not "as" good as the fans think they are. The Utes are leaving for the PAC 12 becasue they were invited and BYU is leaving the MWC because the management of the conference stinks. If the management of that conference was better I think the addition of BSU made the MWC a good one as far as talented teams. I don't see Utah doing much better than eeking out a winning season each year in the PAC maybe throwing together several 500 seasons too. BYU might be playing some good teams as an independent, but I see them struggling unless things change in Provo. I see TCU jumping ship first chance they get. We will be watching some cool teams playing the Y and U but it's going to be tough watching them get handled. TCU proved that they are good teams but not great teams. 

Those who said Utah has not played anyone this year was right! And they are not up to standards of programs such as TCU. Amen.


----------



## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

Really? This is the lamest post I have ever read. Andy Dalton is a 5th year senior QB, this TCU team is great. However, next year they will not be as good. In my opinion they are National Championship good this year and deserves the chance to play in it. However, I also believe the Utes Fiesta Bowl team was the best in the nation that year and could have beaten ANYONE including USC. We all know the Utes Sugar Bowl team was as good as any team that year as well. They knocked the living snot out of Alabama who was #1 almost the entire season. 

TCU is hands down the best team in the conference this year but to say that their program is much better than BYU (who has a National Championship) and the U who have won 2 BCS games have inferior programs to a team who hasn't won a BCS game is just assenine.

OU sucked last year, and Florida sucks this year....does that mean they have crappy programs too? I'm proud the Utes are playing as well as they are with a true sophomore QB who has only started 11 games in his career.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

I hesitated to respond because it is obvious you are just trying to get responses, but I will bite anyways, I never learn. :lol: TCU is great and Utah was truly found to be overrated. I can't make any excuses. Wynn played his worst game ever and the whole team just looked shell shocked. Saying that, TCU returned nearly everyone of their starters on both sides of the ball. There are very few programs in the nation that can go undefeated every year. So the Utes end up 11-1 or 10-2, that is a great record in any conference. I think Utah will have more consistently tougher games, but the best teams in the PAC-10 aren't better than the top teams in the MWC IMO. What about when Utah worked TCU in 04 or 08, ect. This was the first time TCU has beat Utah on their home field. BYU won't be down for long, they have proven to be a good program. I am realistic enough to know Utah is going to have rough years, they may even have seasons where they have a losing record in the PAC-10, but I also realize they have the ability to win the conference also.


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I didn't say anyones program sucks. I said they have good programs compared to TCU this year. Funny how all the U fans are singing the praises of a possible 10-1 season when they were so quick to point out the Y having 10-1 seasons the years the U went undefeated. 10-1 or 10-2 seasons for several years in a row are good seasons in anyones book.

All I'm saying is Utah and BYU play some pretty poor teams in the MWC. BYU is one of those poor teams this year. For either team to spout off about being too good for the MWC is stupid or to claim they are going to go out and play the "BIG BOYS" and kill them and win PAC12 championships is big talk.

Before the game all we heard was how great Wynn is. Now we get all the excuses. He looked about as good as that freshman QB in Provo. 

And for all the crap that has been flung at the Y about the Vegas Bowl---well, I'm sure when the U goes down to play it will be one of the premiere bowl games in the country.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

You make some valid points, I will be the first to admit I gave the Y fans **** about there weak schedule a few years ago and said they were going to lost to TCU because they hadn't played anyone. Well hell the Utes were the exact same situation, but fandom got in the way of thinking clearly. I guess at least I can admit I am wrong and try to find some positives to hang my hat on.


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Interesting thought on the Vegas Bowl. As I'm seeing things right now, the utes can HOPE to go to Vegas. But if I were to put down a bet today, I'd bet they play in the New Mexico bowl. The MWC has contracts with the Vegas, San Diego Credit Union, Fort Worth Armed Services, and New Mexico Bowls. The bowls pick in that order. The Vegas bowl is obligated to take the MWC champion, unless that team goes to a BCS game - then they can pick any bowl-eligible team.

Now, this year, the MWC will have TCU, Utah, Air Force, BYU and San Diego State all as bowl eligible teams. We all know TCU will go to the national championship game, or the Rose Bowl, so that leaves Vegas to take whoever they want of the remaining teams. BYU is the ONLY team that has sold out the Vegas Bowl, and this is the LAST year the Vegas bowl can get them (barring major changes in contracts) so they'll take BYU like they have the last 5 years - even in years when there were higher finishing teams in the conference. The San Diego game picks next. Their attendence at that game has been so bad, they will take the hometown team in hopes of getting at least someone at the game. The Fort Worth game picks next and with Bell Helicopter Armed Services Bowl as the title, they will take a service acadamy figuring the many air force bases in Texas will support it. That leaves the utahutes in Albacracky. And that sucks for them and utefans. Because having spent time in that horrible herpes infection of a town, I'd rather NOT go to any bowl game, than go there. The only bowl city in America worse than Albacracky is El Paso.


----------



## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's my thought.... *groans, knashing of teeth, sighs of exasperation*.... yes, I can hear them. :lol: 

Utah has got probably three years in the Pac12 before all of a sudden, they start showing up with one or two losses per season. Until then, losing four or five games (if not more) will probably be the standard.... its just the way it is going to be. Sure, they'll compete... eventually. 

About the MWC, yeah, TCU is going to lose a few folks and they won't be as dominant next year but they'll still be good. The MWC is adding BSU, who in my opinion is going to just own this conference for the next little while. They have good recruits coming in and could possibly return a whole lot of people from their really good team this year again next year. Thats kinda scary... and now BSU is associated with being a really winning program here lately so they're getting all sorts of folks to come play who otherwise probably wouldn't give BSU a second thought. Between them, TCU and Nevada when they come to play, this conference with the resurgence of SDSU and Air Force will probably actually be more deserving of the AQ status than conferences like the Big East or the ACC where teams just really aren't all that special anymore. 

I'm not sure when BYU will be back, but I see them trying to get back into some major conference affiliation when independence doesn't net them the approval and notoriety they're hoping for. Does money even matter when you're mired in the "who was that again?" level of independence or the barely even division one WCC level of competition for other sports? I'm just saying... they should have stayed put and reworked the contract when it was time... because by leaving right away, they're missing their shot at validating the 84 championship by having the chance at another.

Ok, carry on.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Interesting thought on the Vegas Bowl. As I'm seeing things right now, the utes can HOPE to go to Vegas. But if I were to put down a bet today, I'd bet they play in the New Mexico bowl. The MWC has contracts with the Vegas, San Diego Credit Union, Fort Worth Armed Services, and New Mexico Bowls. The bowls pick in that order. The Vegas bowl is obligated to take the MWC champion, unless that team goes to a BCS game - then they can pick any bowl-eligible team.
> 
> Now, this year, the MWC will have TCU, Utah, Air Force, BYU and San Diego State all as bowl eligible teams. We all know TCU will go to the national championship game, or the Rose Bowl, so that leaves Vegas to take whoever they want of the remaining teams. BYU is the ONLY team that has sold out the Vegas Bowl, and this is the LAST year the Vegas bowl can get them (barring major changes in contracts) so they'll take BYU like they have the last 5 years - even in years when there were higher finishing teams in the conference. The San Diego game picks next. Their attendence at that game has been so bad, they will take the hometown team in hopes of getting at least someone at the game. The Fort Worth game picks next and with Bell Helicopter Armed Services Bowl as the title, they will take a service acadamy figuring the many air force bases in Texas will support it. That leaves the utahutes in Albacracky. And that sucks for them and utefans. Because having spent time in that horrible herpes infection of a town, I'd rather NOT go to any bowl game, than go there. The only bowl city in America worse than Albacracky is El Paso.


Very big assumption on BYU being bowl eligible don't you think, they have to win 2 out of the next three. They will beat New Mexico, but Colorado State ain't a given. It is still likely, but not a for sure thing. I disagree with you on taking a 6-6 BYU over a 11-1 Utes team (making assumptions here on the records). Time will tell.


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

jahan said:


> Very big assumption on BYU being bowl eligible don't you think, they have to win 2 out of the next three. They will beat New Mexico, but Colorado State ain't a given


Have you seen CSU play? They really are that aweful. I'm not saying my Cougs are good. They aren't. But CSU is just plain aweful. I watched that monstrosity of bad football in the CSU-SDSU game saturday night just because I'm a college football junkie. They are horrible. And bad as BYU is, that game this week won't be close.



jahan said:


> I disagree with you on taking a 6-6 BYU over a 11-1 Utes team (making assumptions here on the records). Time will tell.


In looking over the past five years that BYU has been the top pick for the Vegas Bowl, I found the following:
2005 - BYU was 6-5 and finished 3rd in the MWC, but still got the top bowl nod. Utah was 6-5 and played in the Ermerald Bowl.
2006 - BYU finished 10-2, won the MWC and got the top bowl nod. Utah was 7-5 and played in the Armed Forces Bowl.
2007 - BYU finished 10-2, won the MWC and got the top bowl nod. Utah was 8-4 and played in the San Diego Credit Union Bowl.
2008 - BYU finished 10-2, finished 2nd MWC, Utah got Sugar Bowl, and BYU got Vegas.
2009 - BYU finished 10-2, 2nd place in MWC, TCU got Fiesta Bowl, and BYU got Vegas. Utah was 9-3 and played in the San Diego game.

So I guess the only time the Vegas didn't take the top MWC team was in 2005.


----------



## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

I think this year TCU, Utah, SDSU and Air Force will all get picked before BYU. That puts the Cougars at best in the New Mexico Toilet Bowl this year, assuming they are even bowl eligible. And with them going independent next year who knows what bowls they will get invited to in the future. They may be longing for the Vegas Bowl after a few years of independence.


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Oh well, Utah lost their bowl game this year. The TCU game was the game of games; the chance to show the world what their program is; to show the world that beating Alabama was not a one time fluke; to show the world that they have arrived. Only thing is they didn't. That's the bottom line. All the pointing fingers at their rival for having 12-1 or 11-2 seasons when "they" went undefeated sounds so grade schoolish now. Maybe drinking a beer or two and firing a handgun into the ground will solve the problem.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50632 ... n.html.csp


----------



## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Was September really that long ago?

Good to see RR is still agreeing with me. 

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28150&start=10#p297609


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> The TCU game was the game of games; the chance to show the world what their program is; to show the world that beating Alabama was not a one time fluke; to show the world that they have arrived. Only thing is they didn't


Much as I hate the utes, I don't see any connection whatsoever to the '08 team that crushed Alabama. Losing to TCU does nothing to take away from the Sugar Bowl, or any of that. It just means that TCU was better this year. Nothing more. Nothing less. Winning or losing does nothing to enhance nor diminish that season or bowl victory. Florida losing what is it now, 3 or 4 games this year takes nothing away from the two consecutive national title games they played in, and Texas' record does nothing to diminish their past few years. And utah losing one game to an exceptional, senior-led team takes nothing away from past accomplishments. Sheesh.


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Nice comeback GaryFish. The only problem is the Utes can't take the same critiquing and finger pointing that they are so willing to throw out when the table is turned. They are so willing to deflate the Y and belittle their program when they have a 1 loss or 2 loss season and belittle the fact that the Y did have a national championship one year. I'm not taking anything away from their program just trying to point out that when the table is turned a one loss season is great when it's the U but mediocre when it's the Y.

In my opinion this game was even bigger than the Alabama game. This was the game that could really make a statement. A game that could say, "yes, we do belong in the PAC." A game that says from year to year to year we have the ability to put together great recruits and great seasons. 

In all seriousness, the Utes have claimed they are bigger and better than the MWC and while their schedule and wins may prove that, they also proved that their team is not on the same level as other teams around the country. If your going to claim you can beat any team in the country on any given weekend, then go out and do it when the opportunity arrives. At worst show up to the game. I got so sick of the interviews with Wynn before the game about how calm he was and how confident he was and how good this team was. He looked like that BYU QB just coming out of high school. 

Blah, blah, balh, it's only one game and they'll bounce back. Big deal! It was "The Game" this year. At least make it one.


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The flaw in the reasoning of utenation, is that winning/losing a game qualifies one to be in the Pac-10. Heck, every week, half the teams in the Pac-10 lose. The Pac-10 invite had NOTHING to do with wins/losses. They invited Colorado first! The Pac-10 invite was focused on needing two more teams, so they could have a conference title game. Ruling out religious schools, only allowing research schools, and the notion of geography, and the need of a half-decent media market, Utah and Colorado were the ONLY schools available to invite.


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

HighNDry said:


> The only problem is the Utes can't take the same critiquing and finger pointing that they are so willing to throw out when the table is turned.


Oh whaaaa, cry me a river. The only person on here that does even close to what you say is just stirring the pot and I'm pretty sure doesn't really mean 2/3s of what he says. Why does cougarfan always have to try to play the moral superiority card?



HighNDry said:


> In my opinion this game was even bigger than the Alabama game. This was the game that could really make a statement. A game that could say, "yes, we do belong in the PAC."


Puhleese, Our 21-11 BCS record is more than enough to say that we "belong" in the PAC-10. 2 BCS bowl wins is enough to do that too. The statement we didn't make in getting our butts kicked this Saturday was that we were overrated as the #5 TEAM IN THE COUNTRY. We didn't deserve to be in the National championship conversation. Fair enough, but that puts in the same boat this year as Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Florida, Notre Dame, USC, and a host of other powers that are also out of the running for a BCS bowl. I suppose you want to argue that they don't belong in their conferences either. Belonging in a BCS conference and winning a BCS National championship is a vastly different situation. Most of the BCS schools in the BCS era haven't even been in a BCS bowl game, let alone win one or two. I would even say that BYU also "belongs" in a BCS conference, based on their body of work over the past 40 years.



HighNDry said:


> the Utes have claimed they are bigger and better than the MWC


What is wrong with that? Your cougars have done the same thing. But of course they can do no wrong.



HighNDry said:


> If your going to claim you can beat any team in the country on any given weekend, then go out and do it when the opportunity arrives.


So the only standard you will accept from the "U" is an undefeated season every year? A 11-1/10-2 season is abject failure? Do you expect that from your cougs? No wonder you whine about the Jazz after a 53-29 year.

We will go on next year to the PAC-10 and will provide you plenty of fodder for criticism as we go 8-4, 7-5 or maybe 6-6. I don't hear too many utefans (even CS) saying we will go 12-0. The PAC-10 is tough. Even the great USC teams of a few years ago lost at least 1 conference game more years than not. But hey, I expect that when we lose that first one next year, you will be happily spouting off about us "not belonging".


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Though I kind of hate to admit it Catherder, I agree with everything you just wrote.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Great post Catherder, it is too easy for some to clump all Ute fans into one ignorant group, well it seems to me most Ute fans on this site are very reasonable. I can say the same for most of the Cougar fans on this site.


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

-_O- Finally!


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

The Las Vegas Bowl can market this year's bowl game to Ute fans as a chance to get a rivalry going with a PAC opponent. I see Utah going to Vegas.


----------



## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I actually hear quite a few Ute fans saying that they're going to go in and own the Pac 12. I'm anxiously awaiting next season.... it's going to be a beautiful thing for me. After this TCU debacle, I'm sure some of them may just change their tune however.... and thats unfortunate because I was banking on winning several cases of beer from my friends in red. :lol:


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> I actually hear quite a few Ute fans saying that they're going to go in and own the Pac 12. I'm anxiously awaiting next season.... it's going to be a beautiful thing for me. After this TCU debacle, I'm sure some of them may just change their tune however.... and thats unfortunate because I was banking on winning several cases of beer from my friends in red. :lol:


Any one who says the Utes will own the PAC 12 are idiots. I think they will hold their own, but there is no way they will dominate, there is too many good teams.


----------

