# Who's excited about the Outdoor Retailer Show returning



## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

I don't want to say their names and give them any credit but the big major company that sells coats and sounds like amonia as well as the company that is along I-15 in the South Towne mall parking lot with lots of Subaru's in the parking lot, are boycotting the outdoor retailer show coming back to Utah because they are still mad about Utah's stand on the Bears ears. I didn't care if the door hit them in the backside when they left but now they are coming back. I guess I don't have a problem with the show itself but the stores that are boycotting, I hope they don't cave and join us again. Others thougts?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Agreed. Those companies grandstanding still should absolutely stay away. We don’t want them. Patagonia needs Utah way more than Utah needs it. Good riddance!


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)




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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Couldn't give fat rats ass about it coming back, or, staying away.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

middlefork said:


> It was a closed show before when it was here. So unless you were either an exhibitor or a buyer for a retail outlet you were not invited. If you are a retailer or wholesaler and wish not to attend good on you. Nice thing about it everybody involved gets to decide.
> 
> I don't care anymore because I'm no longer involved. But I can insure you there are more than a few people with businesses related to the show who are happy to see it return. Much like any other convention.


There will always be a few sellers (like Patagonia) and a few retailers (like REI) that have no need to attend. They tend to do business directly with each other and don't need the exposure a show affords. The show benefits the smaller, new, innovative companies the most. Which I view as a plus for anyone who visits the outdoors.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I personally wonder if the proposed semi-open nature to public is a response to the PR around the move and boycott, as well as the industry feedback.

Patagonia and REI won't hurt from the boycott. They "need' Utah about the same as Utah "needs" them. There will be the tension on the surface and public level but both will gladly make money off of each other. And neither company is reliant on OR in the short to medium run.


OR and Utah both win here. I'm hopeful it will allow for some pressure on the legislature to tone down their worst public lands ideology. But I've been overly optimistic with my hope more than once.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

backcountry said:


> OR and Utah both win here. I'm hopeful it will allow for some pressure on the legislature to tone down their worst public lands ideology. But I've been overly optimistic with my hope more than once.


Like I said in the other thread on the subject, I find it extremely ironic that mayor Mendenhall was key in negotiating them back and her liberal policies cited as a possible reason that OR was happy to come back, per the news media reports. I hope this is another example to the legislature and thoughtful "R"'s in general that a hard line TPL position is not a political winner and they would act accordingly. 

Sadly, recent examples from both sides of the aisle would suggest that the hard line usually prevails nowadays.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Agreed. Those companies grandstanding still should absolutely stay away. We don’t want them. Patagonia needs Utah way more than Utah needs it. Good riddance!


 Normally a common sense guy, but please Vanilla, and all you other Patagonia haters...why all the hate? Is it the fact they take a stand against anyone, and that includes Utah, maybe one of the worst states in the nation in efforts to support public land and conservation issues, or the Millions and Millions they donate worldwide to support conservation efforts. Or, maybe it is just a poorly thought out and researched response to a few butt hurt land developers and corporate ranchers(Lyman Farms LLc comes to mind) that object to any efforts to interrupt their plan to sell off and buy all public land in America. Oh poor Utah, they're picking on us.

Thank God there are people and corporations that are big enough($) to bring to light, by their actions, the insidious and evil plan by Utah and others, mainly the extraction industry, to end all public land.

Somehow many of you hunters and other outdoor people have...and I hate to use a silly old phrase...have drank the wrong glass of cool aide.

Believe me, Patagonia and the many many other businesses that boycotted Utah's "sell'er off plan" has brought more recognition to the issue than any little discussion group or focus group or news letters, etc than you can name. 

Patagonia IS our friend!


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

That is NOT how I see it Turkey Man. I won't say their name still because even bad publicity is still publicity but they bullied Utah and told them that they would take the show elsewhere if they didn't change their stand on the Bears Ears monument. Obama signed that monument only moments before leaving office. Obama had not done the homework. Trump had many investigators get involved and seek the desires of the state of Utah as well as what they felt best for the monument. They didn't eliminate it but put it to a resonable size based on knowledge. Biden imediately goes against all investigative reports by trusted people and this becomes a Democrat vs. Republican battle instead of what is best for Utah, the Native tribes and those in the Blanding area. It's wonderful that people make a stand for things that are right and good. I simply don't side with them on their stance on this one. They were being bullies and left with all of their millions that they bring in to Utah. They made their bed now they can sleep in it.

Whenever I see a hunter wearing a little patch on their jacket or hat of the name you mentioned, I ALWAYS inform them of their misdoings.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

To clarify, Obama signing it right before he left = intentional strategy. They did their homework which had been ongoing for a decade +. 

We oversimplify narrative at our own expense. Trump responded to his base the same way Obama and Biden did to theirs. There isn't a unified "investigation" on size or outcomes; there were and are competing factions. That will likely remain the case for at least a decade longer. There really isn't a "right size" or black and white answer to this one. 

And this was an D v R issue long before Biden, Trump or Obama. This proposed designation had been playing out behind the scenes for ages in very partisan ways. And that was built on all of the complex realities and partisanship of previous monument designations in Utah. 

I didn't like the original Obama designation in application or political strategy. And I liked Trump's reduction even less. Ultimately Biden's was expected just as another reduction by an R is likely on the way unless the courts answer the pertinent legal questions about such executive powers.

I wear Patagonia and buy REI. Both make quality gear and I recognize their controversial approach. At the same time I 100% support a consumer choice to boycott those companies.

The cycle will continue. Ultimately the companies who present at OR saw a different location and decided SLC was a better fit. And I'm excited for our state to reap the tax benefits. I seriously doubt those still boycotting OR will hold such sway a second time. OR has made a statement in that regard.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Oh come on! It was those 10th Mountain guys after WWII who started screwing things up. They fostered the Boomers and it has gone to hell in a hand basket since.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I just love the idea that Obama didn't do his homework. Good gracious, the direct effort that actually led to the monument was 7 years in the making and involved a coalition of tribes, conservation groups, etc. And we can go as much as 112 years back and have federal documents showing a "Bluff District" proposal alongside well known ones now like Mesa Verde and Chavo.

Those against the monument have every right to stake their position and use political avenues to address their preferences. Let's just not ignore the real, well documented history of this monument and the many political skirmishes that entails.

And since the designation of GSENM tension with federal agencies has been building and simmering. And that was just a catalyst that ignited the long term conflict of the 70s because of RARE & FLPMA. The partisan trenches are deep and storied on this one.

I personally believe Obama's designation was poorly executed and designed but not because he didn't do his homework. And Patagonia, REI, OR and Utah are just several of many players in the bigger picture. I don't envy anyone in the trenches in these issues as I don't see a lot of spirit of collaboration in current affairs.

Hence, if it's going to be a political battle I just assume Utah reap the tax benefits given the boycott didn't do much at all to move the needle in a sustainable fashion.

*When I first moved to Utah roughly 20 years ago a San Juan Co sticker and registration was highly recommended and coveted. It was camouflage that (was believed) to help you avoid some of the classic public lands tensions around Cedar Mesa (ie Bears Ears) that had by boiling over already. That was the era of Calvin pissing on SUWA stickers at every gas station in the region. Long before the first smoothies, coffee shops or sushi landed in Monticello. Or before someone published the "secret" contents stored on top of Mexican Hat (never found out myself as I bailed while attempting a solo aid climb of Bandito)


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Let's try to keep this on the subject of the Outdoor Retailer Show. 

We can discuss what is happening without even bringing politics into it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> Normally a common sense guy, but please Vanilla, and all you other Patagonia haters...why all the hate?


Happy to answer that. I’ve never liked their gear. I’ve always thought it was over-priced hipster wear. I’ve called it “Patagucci” for 2 decades probably, and not as a compliment. Then they tried to bully Utah and turned their backs on us, all the while still benefitting from us. I thought it was a chicken (poop) move and made me dislike them even more. I’ll leave the Patagucci puffy coat to the dudes with a man bun and skinny jeans up in Park City. It’s not for me.



BPturkeys said:


> Patagonia IS our friend!


I disagree.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

backcountry said:


> I personally wonder if the proposed semi-open nature to public is a response to the PR around the move and boycott, as well as the industry feedback.
> 
> Patagonia and REI won't hurt from the boycott. They "need' Utah about the same as Utah "needs" them. There will be the tension on the surface and public level but both will gladly make money off of each other. And neither company is reliant on OR in the short to medium run.
> 
> ...


Taking there seat back at the table is a good thing in the state. Btw to those who don’t give a rats ass I can assure you plenty of local businesses, and contractors who help set up for this event do very much give a rats ass.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

2:22 said:


> That is NOT how I see it Turkey Man. I won't say their name still because even bad publicity is still publicity but they bullied Utah and told them that they would take the show elsewhere if they didn't change their stand on the Bears Ears monument. Obama signed that monument only moments before leaving office. Obama had not done the homework. Trump had many investigators get involved and seek the desires of the state of Utah as well as what they felt best for the monument. They didn't eliminate it but put it to a resonable size based on knowledge. Biden imediately goes against all investigative reports by trusted people and this becomes a Democrat vs. Republican battle instead of what is best for Utah, the Native tribes and those in the Blanding area. It's wonderful that people make a stand for things that are right and good. I simply don't side with them on their stance on this one. They were being bullies and left with all of their millions that they bring in to Utah. They made their bed now they can sleep in it.
> 
> Whenever I see a hunter wearing a little patch on their jacket or hat of the name you mentioned, I ALWAYS inform them of their misdoings.


The local counties had elections and candidates who won running off of putting the monument back to the original designation. San Juan and Grand County both passed resolutions telling Biden to return the monument to its original size. So it appears the one not doing their investigative reporting is you.


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

Well One Eye, you could be right that I haven't read up on it much but I have spent a lot of time in Blanding and have not met a single person whether native or not that wanted the huge monument. I wonder if it is just the people that I run with but the reality is that I asked the clerks at the gas stations or waitress at the restaraunt and there seemed to be a consensus. Rumor was that the Subaru drivers were bringing in out of area natives to argue for their case. Could just be a rumor but the locals were the ones telling me that.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

2:22 said:


> Well One Eye, you could be right that I haven't read up on it much but I have spent a lot of time in Blanding and have not met a single person whether native or not that wanted the huge monument. I wonder if it is just the people that I run with but the reality is that I asked the clerks at the gas stations or waitress at the restaraunt and there seemed to be a consensus. Rumor was that the Subaru drivers were bringing in out of area natives to argue for their case. Could just be a rumor but the locals were the ones telling me that.


Oh oh I see, so of course those conspiracy theories must be why both local councils voted for Biden to restore the monument to Obama’s size.

Grand Counties vote after Biden was elected:








Utah’s Grand County asks President-elect Joe Biden to restore Bears Ears monument borders


The Grand County Commission has unanimously asked President-elect Joe Biden to fulfill his campaign promise and act quickly to restore the original boundaries of the Bears Ears National Monument.




www.sltrib.com





San Juan County:





San Juan County Commission wants Biden to restore Bears Ears boundaries


A majority of the San Juan County Commission voted Tuesday to ask President-elect Joe Biden to restore the original boundaries of the Bears Ears Monument in Utah — boundaries that were significantly reduced by the Trump administration.




www.deseret.com





The council had candidates run and be elected specifically to restore the monument.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I assume the convention/conference industry was hurt by the pandemic and this type of contract is huge for them. Not to mention all of the restaurants, hotels, ski resorts, etc. These type of events have a ton of secondary and tertiary affect on our economy.


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

I agree that it’s a good thing for our economy back country. I just don’t care for the whiners involved.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I'll admit I get a kick out of guys who wear Sika or Simms complaining about other companies with with basically the same marketing plan.

Conventions are a pretty good revenue stream with very little environmental impact. They certainly don't hurt Salt Lake or Utah as much as other activities. And even the companies involved in the discussions are aware of the issues caused by over use of public lands.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

middlefork said:


> I'll admit I get a kick out of guys who wear Sika or Simms complaining about other companies with with basically the same marketing plan.
> 
> Conventions are a pretty good revenue stream with very little environmental impact. They certainly don't hurt Salt Lake or Utah as much as other activities. And even the companies involved in the discussions are aware of the issues caused by over use of public lands.


Quite honestly Patagonia’s founder has been more open to coming together with hunters for the greater good on public lands. He attended BHA’s Rendezvous a few years ago and said we have our differences, but he was fully willing to work with the hunting community to protect public lands. He hates Utahs public land stances, and quite frankly so do I. So should most public land hunters, because all those Real Estate backed politicians in the legislature are much less your friend than Patagonias founder. He’d protect your favorite wild place forever. Your state real estate legislator would put a shopping mall, ski resort, or cheap condo on it if they could.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

While SLC’s mayor is said to be primarily responsible for bringing the show , and great economic venue back, Cox has not really pounded the “transfer” drum like Herbert and other state politicians have. I do appreciate that of him. He obviously believes in more drilling and things like that, but Cox has been far less pushy on the transfer or sale of public lands. Quite honestly after getting rid of Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz that conversation has improved some in the state. Now if the state can simply replace Mike Lee we’d be well off. The show is a net positive for the states economy (and has a summer show as well now) and a good public land pressure to have in the state.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

SLC has a long history of going against the grain. Do you think that Jenny Wilsons father Ted (who was a climbing ranger in Grand Teton while Yvon was guiding} had anything to do with positions?
There is an absolute stronghold of people within Salt lake county who are pro public lands along with others sprinkled about. There may be others on here who agree with that. But apparently not enough to change the narrative.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

And here is a little discussion about impact. 
Click on the link in the OP to see the article.









Chouinard Strikes Back


Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers.




www.mountainproject.com


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

middlefork said:


> SLC has a long history of going against the grain. Do you think that Jenny Wilsons father Ted (who was a climbing ranger in Grand Teton while Yvon was guiding} had anything to do with positions?
> There is an absolute stronghold of people within Salt lake county who are pro public lands along with others sprinkled about. There may be others on here who agree with that. But apparently not enough to change the narrative.


I had no clue about that little historic tidbit, though I don't pay any attention to SLC politics. Funny how these cycles play out.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

backcountry said:


> I had no clue about that little historic tidbit, though I don't pay any attention to SLC politics. Funny how these cycles play out.


Check out the history of the Wasatch Mountain Club or the Alpenbock Club at the U of U.
As a young kid just getting started in climbing I was able to attend a clinic presented by Yvon as he passed through from Yosemite to the Tetons. A few years latter Ted was the climbing ranger who checked me out for my first climb of the Grand.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

If Utah as a whole was as Democratic as Salt Lake County, the OR show would not have felt a need to go to Denver in the first place. Bears Ears wouldn't have yo-yoed, and our public lands would not be threatened:



https://www.bestplaces.net/voting/city/utah/salt_lake_city


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