# Pregnant Dog Question HAD PUPS



## Tattertot (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks again for the input on my previous thread. Well my friends dog had her pups earlier this week. There are 5 blacks and 3 chocolates. All are healthy and doing well. Here's the deal. The thought was that she was knocked up by the neighbors lab. The pups look just like lab pups, but about half the pups have a small white spot on their chest, and one or two have a small spot on top of one of their feet. So has anyone had lab pups with small white spots that went away later, or are these not pure labs? He is just going to give them away to good families looking for a good pet, but would like to know about the small white spots. 

Thanks Guys.


----------



## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Hi again Tatter! I'm not an expert but once upon a time I remember reading through some AKC material on acceptable lab markings. If I remember right, white spots on pure bred lab pups are not entirely uncommon. I recall that small white spots on the chest were "permissable but not desireable" traits. Genetics are an odd thing, and the bottom line is they could be pure bred and still have such marks, but it does raise the question. I'm pretty sure that spots in places besides the chest are a reasonable indication of a mix, and they likely don't meet AKC standards if the white appears anywhere besides the chest.


----------



## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Buck up and DNA the dogs and then the pups!


----------



## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Don't be too hasty in assuming they aren't pure Labradors. Yes, Labs can, and often do have white markings on their chest. The smaller the better, but genes do as they will, and at times the chest markings are larger. White on the feet is not uncommon either. The primary ancestor of the Lab is the St. John's Water Dog seen here,








Notice the abundance of white on the chest and feet! Today's labs have been bred away from the white markings for a solid color. Most of the white on the feet today is found under the foot between the toe pads...this condition is called "Bolo pads" named for a English Ch dog who had this type of marking. Once a gene is in a population of animals, it is nearly impossible to remove it without eliminating the entire population. So today, though solid is the most desired state, white markings still do appear...mostly on the chest, feet, and with age, the muzzle.


----------



## Jesse Higgins (Sep 11, 2007)

> So has anyone had lab pups with small white spots that went away later


 No, that's not likely to happen. In fact, it will likely get worse with age.

From the American Kennel Club breed standard,


> The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification. Yellow--Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog. Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification.


The white chest and toe marks have been largely been bred out of modern purebred Labradors. I would say that the white showing up on the aforementioned pups could be an indication of other undesirable genetic traits surfacing because the breeding was between two very genetically different dogs. When you do a wide outcross, you just don't know what you'll get. With these pups, you don't know what you're going to get with regards to temperament, intelligence, drive, or physical problems. You just don't know, and you won't know until the pups grow up. Breeding quality dogs is about playing the odds, and this kind of breeding is a long shot.

Good luck!


----------



## featherbuster (Oct 17, 2007)

Tattertot, I'm not dog breeder, but did have a litter of Labs from a male and female I owned in the early 80s. The male was black, female yellow. They had 10 black pups. All but 2 had white on toes AND chest. By the time they were 7 weeks old, most of the white had disappeared, just a small spot on the chest of a couple of them. I don't think it is a big worry. I'm guessing your pups will lose the white too. Also, I read some time ago, that the white showed up on toes and chest in the older lines of Labs. BTW, The picture that Ironman sent you is of 2 of the original Labs that never left Newfoundland. Found by author Richard Wolters in the mid 80s. Good Luck with your pups. Jon


----------

