# Expo Results 2018



## Twill87 (May 17, 2015)

Expo results out. Let the corruption talk begin. Heather Farrar with yet another expo tag. If I’m remembering correctly she drew a pauns deer tag from the expo last year or 2016. Would be interested to see those years results can’t find it anywhere but I remember her drawing. Interesting how names associated with Mossback continue to show up on expo tag results.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I was literally just going to post that. I mean her husband only gave hundreds of thousands to SFW and mossback over the years. How in the heck is that even possible???!!!


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I think I'm more upset that three different people won two tags. I'd love to know the odds of that happening in a truly 'random' situation. They can't be good when tens of thousands of people are applying.

I'm starting to think the algorithm they use to run the draw isn't a very good one.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Also multiple well known Utah guides on this list...


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## grizzly (Jun 3, 2012)

The guy that drew Henry's rifle drew Henry's Bison last year. Some people drew multiple tags, others have drawn tags multiple years in a row.

Something is wrong with the programming. Too bad they won't let anybody review the code.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I will NEVER understand why a rule wouldn’t be made to allow only one expo tag per person per year.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Imagine how mad people would be if they still posted the names of the General, LE and OIL draws like the used to.


-DallanC


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> I was literally just going to post that. I mean her husband only gave hundreds of thousands to SFW and mossback over the years. How in the heck is that even possible???!!!


What do you mean? They just stuff it in the SFW coffers with a wink and a nod! -O,--O,-


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Still pretty naive about the Expo Tags myself.

Is there a limit to the number of entries per person? 

If not, is there a progressive cost structure as you buy more, ie it costs noticeably more for each additional entry? 

I know fundraising is important but there must be a way to create a system that accomplishes that goal while still giving the average joe a chance.


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## grizzly (Jun 3, 2012)

Backcountry, one entry per person per tag. The idea is that everybody has equal chance. It appears to many that's not happening, whether intentional or due to poor computer coding.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Only one name I recognize....Nevada Smith.....good movie. 

Congrats to all.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Random my azzhole!

Anyone else getting tired of taking it in the shorts by our DNR and wildlife $pecial interest groups?

This is ridiculous :-x you really expect me to believe heather won the lottery back to back on great tags?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Same story, different year. There are always names that raise an eyebrow, but if it was truly rigged, it would be a conspiracy and controversy of epic proportions. I have to believe that is not the case, but, I guess you never know if there is no transparency... 

I really, really want to believe that people with intelligence, and the state itself, would view stacking the deck for people and organizations would be a very, very bad idea and not worth it. That's what I want to believe, anyway.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Is it statistically possible for the results to have the outcome that they do. 

Is it also statistically possible that I never draw one of these. 

I think the rigging conspiracy needs more evidence to support it, because just because someone is associated with a certain group does not mean they are guilty of committing an act. It is SFW's event and with the event totaling like 54k or so, I do not think it would be unreasonable for 5,400 or 10% of the people attending having ties to SFW. 

There is also a lot of money thrown down at the EXPO by vendors, guides, or rich guests and not all of them draw the public tags. 

I do not see enough evidence to support the claims of rigging. 

I am still in favor of all draws being televised with a ping pong ball lottery. This way people can see the results and cry together when they do not draw.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> Same story, different year. There are always names that raise an eyebrow, but if it was truly rigged, it would be a conspiracy and controversy of epic proportions. I have to believe that is not the case, but, I guess you never know if there is no transparency...
> 
> I really, really want to believe that people with intelligence, and the state itself, would view stacking the deck for people and organizations would be a very, very bad idea and not worth it. That's what I want to believe, anyway.


I tend to think along the same lines on this issue. I don't think there is anything specifically malicious with the draw. However, with no transparency about the drawing process, it does always seem to linger in the back of your mind.

I mean, it's not like the deck has been stacked in the favor of SFW and the expo with any other issues, right?;-)


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

backcountry said:


> I know fundraising is important but there must be a way to create a system that accomplishes that goal while still giving the average joe a chance.


Yep there is, or at least there was an attempt for a system. It was called the RMEF proposal that was shot down...


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> but if it was truly rigged, it would be a conspiracy and controversy of epic proportions.


Hummmm. Epic proportions? I can think of a few exposed conspiracies in recent history that dwarf anything this could amount to.

My training and job centers around the design, implementation, and testing of controls to prevent conflicts of interest and opportunities for manipulation in business settings. From the limited facts (if accurate) that have been discussed on various threads on here I have significant concerns. Such circumstances would be absolutely and unquestionably intolerable in the businesses I examine.

At a MINIMUM, the application and draw process should be in the hands of an uninterested and independent entity where all affiliated individuals involved are barred from any conflicts of interest. That the information on controls and transparency is not readily available already is, at best, troubling.

History has shown, that without transparency, or a robust and sound (and independently verified) set of internal controls, fraud WILL happen. Not happens sometimes, but eventually WILL happen. It's human nature, even when there is the best of intentions initially. I like to think that I and other morally strong individuals would be otherwise, but from what I've seen of good people going bad, I must conclude we are all prostitutes, just with different price thresholds. Controls and transparency are to keep honest people honest. The three legs of the fraud triangle are 1) motive (pressure), 2) rationalization, and 3) opportunity. The first two cannot be independently controlled by a system. There are inherent in human nature and changing situations. The only factor a system truly has control over is the last - opportunity. Any system should be designed to prevent opportunity. And from what I see, the system has NOT been designed to prevent opportunity.


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Is it statistically possible for the results to have the outcome that they do.


Of course it's possible. But that gives no assurance. What is truly informative though is that it appears HIGHLY improbable.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

"_I must conclude we are all prostitutes, just with different price thresholds_" This made me chuckle, because it's true. Well said, and point well taken about there being legitimate cause for concern.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Charina said:


> Of course it's possible. But that gives no assurance. What is truly informative though is that it appears HIGHLY improbable.


Exactly! Possible? Sure, probable? Not likely! Two amazing tags back-to-back by a person directly tied to SFW and Mossback for over 10 years? Multiple people drawing multiple tags each year? If I created this randomized program and ran it, with the same numbers based on total applicants the odds of having the same numbers show up as often as has happened here are out of this world!

Here's the thing, isn't the fact that all of us TRULY believe corruption was involved when choosing SFW over RMEF enough? Why would the draw process by said corrupt-organization be any more honest? It wouldn't be!

I mean even freaking McDonalds got put in the fryer when pure fraud was found with their Monopoly game. Years of friends and family winning the biggest prizes and thousands of dollars. I'm sure this is no different.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't want to jump on the fraud or conspiracy bandwagon but I feel that full transparency can and should be absolutely mandated for anything involving a public resource.

People win the lotto every year and thereby beat the odds, it does happen even in fully transparent and supposedly random circumstances...just wish it'd happen to me.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

grizzly said:


> Backcountry, one entry per person per tag. The idea is that everybody has equal chance. It appears to many that's not happening, whether intentional or due to poor computer coding.


Thx, Grizzly.


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

You guys do realize you can attend the draw? Watch the entire process and ask questions? I've gone a few times. I just allows me to be disappointed earlier each year. ;-)


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't think it's the reading of names people are questioning. The randomization elements that are part of the drawing aren't something that would be easily understood by the layman, even if they were present while the results were being generated.

It's probably a good idea with something that deals with a public resource, for the DWR to err on the side of requiring more transparency, not less. It would mitigate a lot of talk of misdeeds or corruption.


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

Kwalk3 - makes sense. Has anyone ever asked for a code audit?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

HuntElk4Fun said:


> Kwalk3 - makes sense. Has anyone ever asked for a code audit?


HAhahahaha we cant even get the SWF to disclose how they spend the $$$ from the convention.

We do know money is spent to hob-knob with the President. Its not everyone who gets to take a christmas card picture in the whitehouse.

I wonder how much $$$ this took:










-DallanC


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

I could care less about SFW and their disclosures in this discussion. As we know, MDF/SFW put on the event and a third party contractor approved by the DWR does the draw. End of the day, DWR is responsible for those tags and the method they're distributed. Pushing the DWR for details of the draw and how it's performed shouldn't be that hard? I'm new to the land of forums and maybe this has been hashed out forever... but overall, maybe I'm missing something? This shouldn't be a question for MDF/SFW but DWR itself.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I think that is where people would like to see the transparency. I'd like to know the details of the draw for the expo tags, and for the code to be made available for an expert analysis. I'd also like to know why this particular outfit is used by SFW and subsequently approved by the DWR. 

There may be nothing amiss, but when the curtains are closed, it does provide kindling for the fire of conversations about impropriety and scandal.

Additionally, I don't think the lack of detailed accounting for expo funds by SFW is something that can be ignored in this discussion. Once again, the DWR should be mandating a more sufficient accounting for the revenues generated by the application fees. They are part of the same package as far as the lack of transparency goes. You are correct that the DWR should be mandating this. I think the biggest problem there is that sometimes, with some issues, it is difficult to see where the DWR ends and SFW begins. Blurry lines are hard to use to differentiate.


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

Kwalk3 - understood and great logic. I, for one, wish we could see the code behind the process. I was satisfied with things when I saw it in person but you bring up a good point about the "randomization elements" of the process. I personally don't think anything is rigged regarding the tags but that's my opinion. I do wonder about the code however and potential flaws. It's probably fine, if so, great... and some people are VERY lucky!! Would be cool to see it validated by code geeks out there though.


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

Twill87 said:


> Expo results out. Let the corruption talk begin. Heather Farrar with yet another expo tag. If I'm remembering correctly she drew a pauns deer tag from the expo last year or 2016. Would be interested to see those years results can't find it anywhere but I remember her drawing. Interesting how names associated with Mossback continue to show up on expo tag results.


not to fan the flames. oh who am i kidding yes i am fanning the flames. this heather farrar lady from some sources, just as ticked off as most of you who actually went and applied for these stolen tags. has drawn a rifle elk tag each of the last nine years. of course they are different elk units to mask the scent of foul play but all are high quality ones. any one want to research this one to confirm?


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## stripey22 (Oct 12, 2009)

I have not gone through the list of successful expo tags drawn but I am reading here about these irregularities.
IF a person drew two tags in a row for Henry's and IF multiple people drew two tags for THIS year and IF a person has drawn LE tags several years in a row there is very likely fraud of some kind happening. That isn't even including the issue of people related to MB or SFW drawing tags.

200 tags available. 50k to 60k people entering for tags. There is NO way that many crazy coincidences occur in a single year.

Am I missing something? I don't want to think the worst but this seems way out of whack. I understand that all 50k+/- entrants aren't put in for all 200 tags so the odds are actually better than it looks but still, something is happening.
Are there any statisticians here that can estimate the odds of all of these things happening like they did this year?


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

callofthewild said:


> not to fan the flames. oh who am i kidding yes i am fanning the flames. this heather farrar lady from some sources, just as ticked off as most of you who actually went and applied for these stolen tags. has drawn a rifle elk tag each of the last nine years. of course they are different elk units to mask the scent of foul play but all are high quality ones. any one want to research this one to confirm?


I think she and her husband (he has passed away, ATV accident I think... sad deal) bought tags. She's drawn some Expo tags yes, but they were big buyers of tags. Good on them for that... they earned their $ and spent it how they wanted inside the system that's provided to us all.


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

stripey22 said:


> I have not gone through the list of successful expo tags drawn but I am reading here about these irregularities.
> IF a person drew two tags in a row for Henry's and IF multiple people drew two tags for THIS year and IF a person has drawn LE tags several years in a row there is very likely fraud of some kind happening. That isn't even including the issue of people related to MB or SFW drawing tags.
> 
> 200 tags available. 50k to 60k people entering for tags. There is NO way that many crazy coincidences occur in a single year.
> ...


Odds aren't that bad... but not good either: https://huntexpo.com/odds-at-drawing-an-expo-tag/

Worst being the Henry's tag at 1 in 10729. The dude that drew the Henry's didn't draw it again but he drew a different elk tag I think last year.


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## Crndgs8 (Sep 14, 2013)

We as hunters and the general public have more control than we think. The problem is getting everyone on board...
Can you imagine how much money they would lose if we were to band together to boycott the drawing? Even if 50% were to participate...


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

This year I decided to not take part in the boycott and put in for some tags. Now that everyone is pointing out all the fishy stuff going on I kind of wish that I hadn't. People can go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt all they want. But for me if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, farts like a duck, beats some nearly insurmountable odds like a duck.... 

Yeah, I'm back to boycotting again until something changes.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I seriously don't understand how any can claim sour grapes on the accusers anymore. The evidence is getting pretty overwhelming at this point.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

callofthewild said:


> not to fan the flames. oh who am i kidding yes i am fanning the flames. this heather farrar lady from some sources, just as ticked off as most of you who actually went and applied for these stolen tags. has drawn a rifle elk tag each of the last nine years. of course they are different elk units to mask the scent of foul play but all are high quality ones. any one want to research this one to confirm?


If what you say is true then there has to be something going on as it has to be statistically impossible to draw for 9 years straight. Where's your proof? I'd be interested in seeing it.

Anyone know if we have access to past years draw results? I haven't been able to find them.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Charina said:


> Hummmm. Epic proportions? I can think of a few exposed conspiracies in recent history that dwarf anything this could amount to.


To be fair, this is a hunting forum in Utah, and specifically a big game hunting forum in Utah. Watergate doesn't really apply here, so yes, I'd say epic proportions might even be an understatement. If the allegations of this conspiracy were proven true, I can literally not think of a single bigger controversy or conspiracy in the hunting world than the state and private groups conspiring to take public tags and rigging the results to benefit their own. Yep, that would be a conspiracy of epic proportions, to put it mildly.

Heather may have hunted elk 9 years in a row, I don't know either way, but those were not drawn tags. I'm pretty sure they purchased the statewide elk tag at least two times, if not more. Yes, the information is fishy, and the odds are pretty astronomical to draw in successive years, but I'm not prepared to butcher a person without some evidence.

Of course, reveal the source codes and have total transparency in the process, and these "crazy" allegations go away. This is what we all should be demanding: transparency. Not going after individuals that have had their name drawn. If transparency reveals something amiss, then it's fair game to go after those that drew. And the state would have a pretty crazy class action lawsuit on their hands.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Charina said:


> I must conclude we are all prostitutes, just with different price thresholds.


Guy: Hey would you sleep with me for a million dollars in cash?
Gal : Hmmmm...1 million? Uh..... yes!
Guy: Would you sleep with me for 20 dollars?
Gal : What? What do you think I am?
Guy: Well I don't think anything. I already know you're a prostitute. I'm just negotiating a price


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

HuntElk4Fun said:


> You guys do realize you can attend the draw? Watch the entire process and ask questions? I've gone a few times. I just allows me to be disappointed earlier each year. ;-)


The draw still happens, even though in public view, inside a computer who's parameters were put in place by a human being. Until the source code that contains those parameters is made public or at least reviewed by more than one independent and uninterested party there is always the chance that a donation or a kick back can skew those parameters in someone's favor. I am not saying it does. Just saying it can happen; so the public presence changes nothing.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

muddydogs said:


> ...Anyone know if we have access to past years draw results? I haven't been able to find them.


Results are not available online, I've looked. Here is a search for last year and it's corresponding page.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Rumor has it that the guy that drew the Oak Creek deer tag. (He's from Alaska and had a Booth at the show) Donated a fishing trip to SFW on Friday. That's kinda weird ???? 

I feel the draw should be done in a live Public Forum, and use the "bingo ball" lottery type system. Try and "fix" a draw that way! 

My odds are better at the Utah big game draw anyway. I think I'm done donating to the rich, so called "Help the wildlife" B.S.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

As the old adage goes: If there's smoke...:-?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

stillhunterman said:


> As the old adage goes: If there's smoke...:-?


The whole effing house is burning down.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

There's still lemmings that will call you a "hater" or a "conspiracy theorist nut." Lol call me that all you want now. I do not care.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I was wondering if they specifically took down last years draw results to cover their tracks. Why else would you do that? Other than to hide that multiple people who drew last year also drew this year. Unfortunately for them too many of us pay close attention. It’s even more fishy because they left older years up. Why just remove last year? Sorry guys, something is going on here.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I would assume the results from prior years could be obtained through a GRAMA request to the DWR, if someone really wants them. Sometimes names and other private information are redacted out of those, but considering they were already revealed publicly at one point, it might be harder to justify? 

I’m no GRAMA expert, but that’s the way I’d go if I really wanted the data.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

MadHunter said:


> Results are not available online, I've looked. Here is a search for last year and it's corresponding page.
> 
> View attachment 128257
> 
> View attachment 128265


Here is the link to the cached data, I believe:

https://webcache.googleusercontent....cessful-applicants/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

According to the cache data it was available on the web until Feb 14th of this year. I have saved it as a pdf in case there is a way to erase cached data from the google servers (doubtful).

Definitely seems fishy and at a minimum completely degrades transparency.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Its odd as there is not 2017 in title on webpage but appears to be there in web code. Not sure how that works but I have saved the source code as a pdf as well.

According to the cached file Heath Jolley of Payson, UT won the aforementioned tag, not Heather Farrar.

Richard Rollins did win Bison tag last year.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I had never heard of this Heather Farrar until after the drawing of the 2018 expo tags and the subsequent rumblings of scandal. I decided to do a little google searching and it appears that her and her late husband Will (sad deal there) are Mossback prostaffers and have done quite a bit of hunting with them. Heather's killed a couple bulls right around the 400 inch mark, an awesome Paunsy muley, and the number 3 Montana black bear. Now if it were just some white trash nobody such as myself that defied the odds by drawing multiple tags I might be a little more inclined to believe the response of "oh, well they could just have really good luck!" But why is it always someone big muckity muck like John Bair or Heather Farrar? Still just luck and their connections with influential people is merely a coincidence? Forgive me if I appear to be wearing a tinfoil hat but....


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

Richard Rollins the son won the buff tag last year....Richard Rollins the father won the Deer tag this year...same family different people....


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## grizzly (Jun 3, 2012)

Six Christensen's have drawn tags in the last two years... guess I should change my name.

Jace Guymon drew tags each of the last two years too. Good for him.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

grizzly said:


> Six Christensen's have drawn tags in the last two years... guess I should change my name.
> 
> Jace Guymon drew tags each of the last two years too. Good for him.


As did Clint Visser!


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

So here's the million dollar question: To all those of you who feel your spidey senses tingling like crazy with these all too frequent co winky dinks happening year in year out, are you still gonna put in for expo tags next year because supporting this BS is worth that 1 in hundreds or thousands chance of drawing an awesome tag?


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## stripey22 (Oct 12, 2009)

We need to get Debbie Dujanovic on the case. Or somebody else that knows how to dig and get to the info needed to expose SFW and DWR and their cozy expo BS. 
There was a story a year or two ago but it quickly went away. 
And in the unlikely event that everything is found to be on the up and up, we can all apologize for doubting them. 

Or SFW can do the right thing and just make everything transparent and show us nothing is going on.


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## Twill87 (May 17, 2015)

I have sent emails to the Utah attorney general office, Debbie Dujanovic, Get Gephardt and various other government officials. We need anyone who is fed up with the SFW B.S to contact these people. Look what happened when the people stood up against Jason Chaffetz when he wanted to take our public land. He immediately backed down. We need enough people to contact Debbie, UGA office or Gephardt get this out in the open. Nobody is lucky enough to draw this many tags year after year. It’s obvious Mossback and the SFW are in bed and scratching each other’s backs. These tags are being stolen you, your family, and your friends it’s time we do something about this.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

grizzly said:


> Six Christensen's have drawn tags in the last two years... guess I should change my name.
> 
> Jace Guymon drew tags each of the last two years too. Good for him.


And I guess it's just a coincidence that he's a highly connected outfitter in the State?... -O,-


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## Muley_73 (Aug 25, 2016)

It is funny to watch the feeding frenzy and silliness of all of this. It amazes me that people are so willing to jump to the conclusion they are getting screwed. Many of you choose to ignore actual facts in favor of choosing to key in on things that seem to support your frustration. 

I'll use my name as just one example. Grizz makes a comment that six Christensen's have drawn in the past two years. Hmmmm that seems fishy and adds support to this all being fixed. Yet when you look at actual facts you would realize its not really that connected as presented. I am realated to exactly 6 other Christensen's in the state of Utah. 1-My father, 2-My brother, neither drew. 3-Oldest son, 4- youngest son, 5-daughter, 6-Wife, none of them even applied and also have never drawn. So when you mix in facts is changes the "theory" of someone named Christensen drawing a tag.

I don't have any idea whether the draw is legit or not, just like I don't know if the draw done by the State of Utah is legit or not, or the draws that I apply for in New Mexico, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming or Colorado are legit. I assume it is because to not have it be would be foolish and a huge risk in any of the above drawings. 

When things are truly random you will always find interesting anomalies to key in on and question. I personally have drawn either a coues deer, elk or barbary tag on my first try in New Mexico draw in 3 consecutive years. My brother drew an AZ lope tag in AZ last year with ZERO points. This unit draws 2 tags total, 1 res and 1 non res (if a 2nd res doesn't draw first). This year he applied for Moose in Idaho for the first time ever, Yep he drew! What are the odds that we yank that many tags in the past 3 years all with ZERO points??? Those odds with on each hunt run around the 1% chance, figure those into overall odds.

You're all letting your hate for SFW cloud your logic. It's honestly reviling many fools.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Muley_73 said:


> You're all letting your hate for SFW cloud your logic. It's honestly reviling many fools.


And you may be letting your love for SFW cloud yours. But we'll never see eye-to-eye on that one.

All this might be very explainable as just pure dumb luck. I'm okay with that. But what are you and other SFW supporters so afraid of with people asking the questions? You know the visual of this looks bad, even if it is totally legit. If there is nothing to hide, then pull the covers back. Let's prove all these conspiracies wrong and then SFW and it's cronies can rub it in everyone's noses forever.

But you won't complain with the tag you drew. I hope your hunt goes great! These tags, for most of us, are just a pipe dream. It's awesome when yours is the lucky name drawn. Smoke a big one, then post up some pics.


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## Muley_73 (Aug 25, 2016)

Vanilla,
Like I clearly stated above, I have no idea whether any draw is legit. I am only commenting on the ridiculousness of some of the theories that are being thrown around. 

Some posters have no issue calling out individuals and making some pretty big accusations. I just wasn't raised like that I guess. I would be interesting to see how may of these mouths would be talking if they had to answer face to face to those they are accusing.

Thank you for the well wishes, I have already started scouting!


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I doubt the draw is rigged-- but if it is, I sure hope it is skewed toward the name Christensen. I know for a fact that the State draw is not rigged toward that name.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Haha, there are a lot of Christensens in Utah and elsewhere. If six Wyskerzenkowskis had drawn, I might be more suspicious.

One of the most improbable sequences of drawing tags in Utah that I have ever known is that of a relative who shares my last name. That being the case, I hope last names have something to do with it. :lol: Then it might be my turn after he draws that rocky mountain bighorn tag he's going after.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Someone needs to look into these drawings. 
Someone needs to have access and perform an audit every year. If SFW doesn't provide this then they are hiding something. 

The DNR doesn't want any corruption found. Because they would be a co defendant in the class action lawsuit that would follow once the corruption was found.

You realize every person that has put in for the drawing would be able to file a suit against SFW, DNR and the state. 

But like others I just would like to know the truth. Is it an honest drawing or not.


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## Hill Hunter (Dec 1, 2017)

Looking at the odds on https://huntexpo.com/odds-at-drawing-an-expo-tag/ I think a person would have a 13.6% chance of drawing a tag if they put in for all 106 options or 1.8% chance of drawing two tags. So not impossible odds if you entered all 106 drawings, but not great either.

If you were only looking at big game tags it would be a 7.3% chance for a tag and 0.5% chance of drawing two (no turkey, bear or cougar).

I couldn't find the previous year's expo draw odds. Anyone know if those are up anywhere to calculate odds of winning tags in multiple years?


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

Packout said:


> I doubt the draw is rigged-- but if it is, I sure hope it is skewed toward the name Christensen. I know for a fact that the State draw is not rigged toward that name.


To funny, I hope that would be the issue. But maybe that is why I can't draw anything as well.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I guess there are a few on here that are fed up with the draw thing. (I'm one of you) So.......... WHY THE HE!! DO YOU APPLY EVERY YEAR???????????? I'm done with it. Someone else can donate to the rich SOB's.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Well, my buddy drew the San Juan! And I know he was shocked as hell.

I however have said enough is enough. We keep talking but there is no action. I did not attend this year, and didn't lose any sleep. I will also continue writing emails that get no reply. I would really love to disrupt a board meeting with my unhappiness.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Anyone out there have copies (in any form/format) of the Expo tag winners for 2012, 2014, 2016 and/or 2017? They've all been pulled off the internet, but I have copies for 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2018. Please PM me for arrangements.
Thanks,
Lee


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