# Enthusiasm waning....



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Hi all,
I'm a fairly new hunter and not a very successful one at that. Usually 99% of the time I'm solo. Single Dad of a beautiful little girl that loves the outdoors as well and likes to go with me sometimes but she's 5, so the attention span only lasts so long. With that said, I usually have every other weekend (that I don't have her) to get outdoors and that's typically what I do. I've been putting in for big game for half a dozen years or so now and only drawn out twice. My first time, first year, was in a LE unit that I had no success in. I hiked my butt off and didn't see any animals. My Dad and Uncle hunting with me drove around after dropping me off and saw 2 little bucks fighting but nothing was seen after that. 2 years later I drew again for a general season deer tag and on the last evening I harvested a 1x2.
I haven't drawn for 3 yrs since. I'm not putting in for super desirable units either, I just haven't had any luck! I got an OTC spike tag this year, hunted like crazy, got into some herds but never found a spike.
I have been duck hunting the last couple years with no success. I go out quite a bit but I'm by myself and trying to learn on the go and it seems like I'm learning everything the hard way. A couple weekends ago I shot at a duck on the water (lets not get into that discussion, you might be sensing my desperation by now lol) and it looked like I hit all water but it flapped around like I clipped it and disappeared into some reeds. I have hip waders and waded out there to try and find it, hit a deep spot that I think was an old dug out canal that I couldn't tell was there and proceeded to fill my waders with water. I went back to a shallow spot, stripped down to my underwear and went into the freezing cold water for 45 minutes to an hour, people snickering as they went by, trying to find the bird that I eventually decided was long gone.
Last weekend I went to Nebraska (cheap and available tag for whitetail doe's), again I put a lot of miles in and a lot of hours sitting and glassing but still didn't have any success. Should've brought my shotgun, there were ducks and geese flying overhead constantly!
I've spent countless hours on my boots in the marshes, up and down mountains, through fields, chasing everything from big game to small and have had little to no success. Needless to say, I am getting pretty down on myself and I'm finding it hard to keep that drive and enthusiasm that I love so much up to keep up the early mornings and long drives, sore body and legs.
I have a pitbull mix that is obviously not a hunting dog but she loves to chase things and has a ton of energy. I've thought about taking her out to see if she can run around, have some fun, and maybe flush something out for me.
So, my question is, what do you guys do when you have a prolonged period of taking nothing home to show for all your hard work? How do you or have you kept motivated when you suck so bad at the thing you love to do? lol for all of you successful hunters, was there a time in your newbie stage when you were as terrible as me or were you always pretty successful and I just need to hang up the ol boots?
I appreciate any advice, tips, GENERAL locations for ANYTHING I might get some success with and pick my spirits back up. I'm sorry for the long post and rant. I've been on here for a while creeping on the sidelines and reading a lot but I've noticed that most of you are great people and very helpful, so thank you.
Don't get me wrong, I think just being in the outdoors is 90% of a successful hunt and it's my happy place. But I also would like to get better and get some meat in my freezer. I don't care about trophies or any of that crap, I just want to have fun and harvest some animals to make some delicious meals. But the former is waning and the latter is non existent ha ha. 
Oh and the cherry on top, I haven't had a lick of success fishing either! With a setup an old timer taught me, I used to slay it anywhere I went! Now, I can't even catch a cold. I also accidentally shut the tip of my fly rod in my door one day so there's that. Using spinning tackle as of late, hoping to get a new fly rod soon.
I know this is a pretty broad stroke for this section of the forum but I feel like the upland community is where it's at and I feel like I have the most opportunity to be successful with upland game/small game.

TL;DR I suck at hunting. I want to get better, be better. I feel like I've put in my time, effort, sweat and blood but with little, arguably no success. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Norm


----------



## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Welcome to the Forum!

What does your current bonus point situation look like (species and amount)? Have you been putting in for antlerless tags? If so, what does your current preference point situation look like?

The reason I’m asking because, at the risk of stating the obvious, hunting is all about location. Being in the right place at the right time is all it takes - easier said than done right?!! 😉

I don’t hunt upland game in Utah much, so I can’t be of any help on that front.

If you are ever out in the Uintah Basin, let me know and I’m sure we can find something for you to shoot or some fish to catch!


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Go into the Uintas, walk around in the trees and you’ll kick up some grouse


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

10-4! 
I will be out and around the Price area this weekend and I was thinking about checking out the Book Cliffs since those are close and discovering some new country


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

CPAjeff said:


> Welcome to the Forum!
> 
> What does your current bonus point situation look like (species and amount)? Have you been putting in for antlerless tags? If so, what does your current preference point situation look like?
> 
> ...


I have 3 points for pretty much everything. Deer (buck and antlerless), Elk (bull and antlerless), Pronghorn. I'm going to put in for turkey this year, I haven't in the past. So we will see how that goes!

Lately I have been hunting the Central mountains on my big game tags or mostly out helping with families big game tags since I haven't drawn for a while. But I am open to discovering new country. I probably shouldn't share this openly but who cares: I think I am going to target low density and low app number areas for my tags next year. Yes, they might have less animals but there will also be less hunters, less pressure, etc. I think it will be nicer than the zoo of the central mountains lol. It's just that those are the mountains I'm most familiar with and I have family that lives in Price. 

Thanks CPAjeff, I just might have to take you up on that offer! I'll send you a PM when I have a good weekend to do so. I really appreciate the willingness and advice!


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

You shouldn’t have a problem drawing a central mountains tag with 3 points and there are tons of places on that unit you can get away from the crowds, I hunt it every year.

I like exploring new areas as much as the next guy but you would be better served sticking with one area for now and really learning it.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Central mts has less than 30% success rate. You are not alone in not filling tags. Thats not the real story though, there are guys that harvest 100% of the time, every year which skews the numbers. This means for the average guy, success is probably less than 20%. Quite the learning curve.

-DallanC


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Another wrench that gets thrown into the works is hunters like I am. I set my sights quite high when deer hunting and try to find the wall hanger type buck. While doing so I'll pass up numerous bucks that most would shoot as soon as they saw them. But I'll pass on them and hunt to the end of the hunt and more times than not I'll take a unfilled tag home. 

About the only time that I'll shoot a small buck is when my freezer is empty. But even then I'll drag the hunt out hopping for a better one.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Ray said:


> You shouldn’t have a problem drawing a central mountains tag with 3 points and there are tons of places on that unit you can get away from the crowds, I hunt it every year.
> 
> I like exploring new areas as much as the next guy but you would be better served sticking with one area for now and really learning it.


I agree, I would be surprised if I didn't draw that next year, and there's no problem seeing animals. There are does everywhere! I also see bulls when I've got a deer tag and bucks when I have an elk tag lol. I have in my mind that if that's where I decide to put in next year, my plan is to go back in deep a day or two before. So far, the first year or two was driving around trying to spot from the truck because I didn't know any better, since then I've been hiking as far as I can but close enough to be able to get back to my truck at night. So I think finding an area to camp way back in there is going to be how I proceed moving forward. Living and learning!
The only reason I say I'd like to try new areas is to find a spot I fall in love with and dedicate a massive amount of time to learn every peak and valley and the animals behaviors in it thru ought the year. I just don't know how much I love the central mountains and I haven't seen the amount of animals I would like for as much time as I've spent in there. And the amount of tag soup I've brought home out of there. But who knows, we'll see!


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Critter said:


> Another wrench that gets thrown into the works is hunters like I am. I set my sights quite high when deer hunting and try to find the wall hanger type buck. While doing so I'll pass up numerous bucks that most would shoot as soon as they saw them. But I'll pass on them and hunt to the end of the hunt and more times than not I'll take a unfilled tag home.
> 
> About the only time that I'll shoot a small buck is when my freezer is empty. But even then I'll drag the hunt out hopping for a better one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


I hope to get to the point one day where I have the luxury to do as you do. That will be a happy day for me and It's exactly where I hope my hunting career ends up! But when the freezer has been metaphorically empty for years on end, I don't have the option to be picky. In my opinion. If that makes sense...


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I should also tell you that I have a advantage as far as general deer tags are concerned. I and a few others on the form here have Lifetime deer tags that we purchased years ago, they are no longer for sale.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Critter said:


> I should also tell you that I have a advantage as far as general deer tags are concerned. I and a few others on the form here have Lifetime deer tags that we purchased years ago, they are no longer for sale.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


Oh cool! That's awesome!


----------



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

StorminNorman said:


> Hi all,
> I'm a fairly new hunter and not a very successful one at that. ...


Well Norm, I got to say, I don't know where to begin with you. Clearly you are a really bad hunter. Not to say you are a bad person or anything like that, but really... you are doing something all wrong. It seems the old adage that "even a blind squirrel finds an occasional acorn" doesn't apply to you. From what you're telling us, you spend the time and energy, in the right places, so I must assume you're just not seeing them, or spooking them, or something. 
Here are a couple things I see young hunters do wrong. First, they walk too much and way to fast. They look for the animals and ignore the habitat or even the little spots you are most likely to see an animal, i.e. a deer is more likely to be along the fringe of an opening rather than out in the middle. Another thing with young hunters...they make too much noise. Now one more thing, keep this in mind..."never leave deer(or what ever it is you're hunting) to find deer." If you see deer while you're driving or walking, hunt that area. Game IS NOT evenly distributed across all areas and they live in areas of their choosing, not yours.
Of course, there's so much more to hunting, but it can all be learned with time and patience. Don't give up, take an occasional deep breath, look at what you're doing and if it ain't working, try something else.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

BPturkeys said:


> Clearly you are a really bad hunter.


Ha ha yes, I am painfully aware. Hence, why I am reaching out. I like to think I'm a pretty intelligent individual and I've done a lot of research and in my off time I like to watch hunting and outdoors videos (good, informative things. Not fake, high fence operations who sit in a stand and wait until the buck they grew and named walks by). I say that to let you know it's not like I'm stomping thru the woods willy nilly making a huge racket. Coming from upwind of everything and wondering why I never see anything. Walking in the middle of a meadow instead of hidden in the woods with the meadow barely in view and a good position to see things moving on the fringes. etc..
I feel like I have a good grasp of the tactics and practices used. But there seems to be a disconnect somewhere.
Like you said, I honestly have never thought of getting out and hiking around where I saw doe's on the side of the road because I would assume I would spook them as soon as I got out of the truck and it would blow everything out of the face of that mountain. Instead, I would take that as a sign that there are deer in the area and try to find a bowl, glassing point, or something to hike to in that general area away from 1. other hunters 2. where I think others may have pushed them to where they are hiding.
I don't know man, I'm at a loss here. But it hasn't been for the lack of effort, I'll tell you that! It might be a lack of knowledge, however, on areas that usually hold deer or elk, chukars, pheasants, or whatever I may be chasing and where they most likely would be given that time of year or what vegetation to look out for. I'll keep learning and trying to apply my knowledge though. I'm not about to give up now! Even though I suck, I still love it way too much to hang it up.
Good news is, there's only one direction to go when you're on the bottom, UP! I can only get better at this point...
I guess I was just looking for some tips, tricks, etc., to help me get better at a more expeditious rate. If all else fails, I'll keep learning the hard way, it's still learning! It might just take longer.

I will say this, when I do find some animals I usually don't have a problem spooking them. For example, I was out trying to find pheasants in the WIA area by Tooele (can't recall the name right now) and I ran into a couple groups of deer at different points in the day. I was able to get in to each group at about 100 yards and just sat and watched them for a bit. There were some good 4 points in there! Which was fun, but then I moved on to the reason why I was there in the first place. Like I said earlier, if I'm after deer for example, I find elk. If I'm after pheasant I find deer! ha ha I want to say I have poor luck and I do but I also have a problem blaming that for my unsuccessful outings. Even with poor luck, I would think I would have to succeed every once in a blue moon!
Thanks for your thoughts though, much appreciated.


----------



## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Great points by BP. 
To me......the best advice is: “they walk too much and way too fast”.
i’ve stated before something I was taught years ago. 
Its not how much ground you cover, it’s how you cover that ground. 
I use my ears as much as I do my eyes. Which is bad......as I get more and more deaf. Ask my wife about that !!


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

How much walking do you do? As stated, you don’t need to blast through like it’s a race but you should be covering some ground. Ideally, hike to a vantage point and let a good pair of glass do the walking for ya.

glass everything, when you think you’ve completely glassed an area, glass it again, then move a bit and get a different angle


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Also, listen to cutting the distance with Remi Warren, his entire podcast is about giving tips and tricks. I’ve only listened to a couple myself but the dude knows his crap


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Ray said:


> How much walking do you do? As stated, you don’t need to blast through like it’s a race but you should be covering some ground. Ideally, hike to a vantage point and let a good pair of glass do the walking for ya.
> 
> glass everything, when you think you’ve completely glassed an area, glass it again, then move a bit and get a different angle


I feel like I do a good balance, as you mentioned. Not cruising super fast but actually getting where I want to go without it taking all day. Taking time to stop and listen. Look for sign. Take note of what the wind is doing. Trying to be smart about how I move and where. 
I've always wondered, do you glass as heavy for upland/ small game as you do with big game? If so, my glassing in those situations could definitely be improved.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Ray said:


> Also, listen to cutting the distance with Remi Warren, his entire podcast is about giving tips and tricks. I’ve only listened to a couple myself but the dude knows his crap


I am really big on that whole group of guys. Remi, Steve, Janis, Ryan Callahan, all those fellas and their shows/podcasts/YouTube videos. I've listened to a few Cutting the Distance, I'll go back to it! Lately I've been listening to the Meateater podcast.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Upland / small game no. Other than pheasants they are hard to glass up. Now I hear and see grouse quite often.

As for deer and elk all I can say is if you are moving you are not looking. I'm not sure where you want to get to but I can almost guarantee you are walking past animals on your way to get there.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I don’t do any glassing for birds and rabbits, I just head to their habitat and start walking, for waterfowl, I get out before the sun is up and set my decoys then sit

do you use the hunt planner at all? It’s got a good map layer for habitat


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For years when I first started hunting deer we would plop our tears down in one spot where we could see a side hill and stay there all day long watching deer move through.

Even with my old hunting partner who couldn't hike we would find him a deer by crusing the roads very slow watching the clearings and the side of the trees. We never did have any problems in the early mornings or after 3 pm in the afternoon

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

You get good at killing stuff, by killing stuff. And you can’t do that at home or if you quit. You can watch every YouTube video or listen to every hunting podcast out there, but until you figure out how to do it on your own, in your own “way”, they won’t help much. They can give you tips and ideas, but certainly won’t do anything until you apply them to your own experiences. Trying things for yourself and seeing what works and doesn’t work will take a lot of time. And only you can’t invest in that. I use several methods personally that work incredibly well for me, but don’t work for others. And same goes for the other way around. Just need to find and figure out your style and how to beneficially use it.

there isn’t a general buck unit in the state that can’t produce success year after year. There isn’t a spike bull unit in the state that can’t produce year after year. Some are better than others, but they all will provide opportunities. You have to decide how bad you want it and how much you’re willing to work for it. That starts with scouting and ends with planing for next year with the information that you learned during the last season you hunted. It’s a cycle that never stops if it is important to you. I didn’t know how to kill elk or even find them 17 years ago. If I saw an elk during the entire season I was lucky. But I kept at it. And for many years in a row I could tell you where elk weren’t, but using that info year after year, after awhile I started finding them and killing them. Now it’s not hard at all. Same goes for deer or anything else I choose to hunt. You get out of it, what you invest into it. Don’t be afraid to explore new areas, but always start with what you know. If that doesn’t work, check over that next ridge. Go look at that finger canyon off the beat path. You’d be surprised how close to traffic animals stay, but never get bothered with because it’s overlooked by everyone else. For every big animal I’ve seen killed in the back country, I’ve seen 2 killed within a few minutes walk off a main road or trail. They are where you find them. So look everywhere you can think of.

ducks is a whole other investment. Scouting is hard to do with them being migratory and with the way the habitat changes year to year, it’s hard to know where will be good all the time. Scout all you want, but if there isn’t much for birds at that time, you could be standing on the ‘X’ and not know it, write the place off and go somewhere else, when in just a week or even day later it is THE place to be. You just need to go and try. Keep trying, success will come. There’s nothing wrong with shooting ducks on the water. When I land a flock in the decoys, I always hammer one on the water first shot. But that’s just me. Some have issues with it, others don’t.

if you are wanting to fill the freezer this year, I have 1 cow tag left. Say the word and it’s yours. The season goes until January 31. Tell me when you want it and I’ll get it for you as quickly as I can.


----------



## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

StorminNorman said:


> I am really big on that whole group of guys. Remi, Steve, Janis, Ryan Callahan, all those fellas and their shows/podcasts/YouTube videos. I've listened to a few Cutting the Distance, I'll go back to it! Lately I've been listening to the Meateater podcast.


First: Quit listening and watching all those guys. They all have top notch/high dollar properties managed to put trophy animals in their laps. It is unrealistic for people like you and me.
Second: PM Moosemeat, like yesterday, and accept his very generous offer on that cow elk tag already!
He knows what he is doing.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

That’s an incredibly generous offer and late season cow elk hunting is honestly a blast. You should really take Moose up on his offer, the dude knows his sh!t

I’ll second the bit about finding overlooked spots, it’s one of my go-to methods. I shot my buck this year 600 yards from where I parked on the muzzleloader and my wife shot hers 200 yards from where I shot mine on the rifle.


----------



## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

The last couple post on this thread have me scratching my head. Correct me if I’m wrong but Moose is offering to shoot the cow and donate it to his freezer because he has more than he can handle. 

He is not offering to mentor this adult on a late cow hunt because that is not a thing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

From what I gathered, he has a voucher that hasn’t been claimed


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Ray said:


> From what I gathered, he has a voucher that hasn’t been claimed


No, I have 1 tag left, it’s mine, im willing to donate the meat to from it to him if he wants it. He said something about an empty freezer and wants to get it filled. Im sure it’s implied that he wants to do it himself, but if it a necessary need for this year I can help.

I do have access to ground where a OTC private lands tag which was still available last I looked can be hunted this year. I can check with the land owner to see if they would allow me to take a new hunter out, but this certainly would be a 1 time deal. You can’t go back or get access for yourself on the same property in the future. 1 and done.


----------



## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

My mistake, I also thought he had a voucher he was willing to let go.
Still, a great offer for meat in the freezer.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

A whole elk is still a great **** offer!


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

*Hey StorminNorman, send me a PM and we can talk. I'm working two jobs right now, so my time is limited right now but I'd be willing to take you out next summer for a few scouting lessons.
It takes guts to come forward and ask for help. So I admire that. 
Oh, about those bucks near Tooele, they won't be there during hunting season. I'm sure they came down off Kennecott property for the rut. *


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

StorminNorman said:


> Hi all,
> I'm a fairly new hunter and not a very successful one at that. Usually 99% of the time I'm solo. Single Dad of a beautiful little girl that loves the outdoors as well and likes to go with me sometimes but she's 5, so the attention span only lasts so long. With that said, I usually have every other weekend (that I don't have her) to get outdoors and that's typically what I do.


I can somewhat relate. I'm still married, but my daughter is 7, going on 8, I'm 99% solo, and started hunting about a year or so after I moved here in 2011. I've had to learn a lot on my own. The mountains, the seasons, the game, etc, you name it. No buddies to call on that i've known for years like most guys, nothing like that. Steep learning curve. Tag soup? I've got that in spades.








Tag Soup - A commiseration thread


Who else is having Tag Soup this Fall instead of Deer or Elk? Our hunt was going well, lots of signs, beds, scat, etc. But not a single sighting! Anyone else come up empty this year? Lets hear it here! Whatever the cause.




www.utahwildlife.net







> I've been putting in for big game for half a dozen years or so now and only drawn out twice. My first time, first year, was in a LE unit that I had no success in. I hiked my butt off and didn't see any animals. My Dad and Uncle hunting with me drove around after dropping me off and saw 2 little bucks fighting but nothing was seen after that. 2 years later I drew again for a general season deer tag and on the last evening I harvested a 1x2.
> 
> I haven't drawn for 3 yrs since. I'm not putting in for super desirable units either, I just haven't had any luck! I got an OTC spike tag this year, hunted like crazy, got into some herds but never found a spike.
> 
> ...


Now, I'm not going to tell you how to hunt. I'll just say what keeps me going, or how I deal with lack of success. Granted I haven't been entirely unsuccessful either. Have a handful of rough grouse, 3 turkeys, and a cow elk to my credit.. and that's pretty much it.. oh and i got shot a buck this year during muzzy, which i'm none too pleased about, but that's another matter.... :roll: But critters killed is not your only measure of success, i'll explain in a bit.

Anyway, half of hunting is a mental game with yourself. Especially when your by yourself. There's nobody to keep you going forward except you. So here's some random braiin droppings:

- If your objective oriented, try not to be. If you measure success purely by punched tags, your not going to last long.

- In general, and I'm talking life in general, no bad experience is a waste so long as you learn something from it. If a scout/hunt trip sucked balls, there's some measure of success to be had so long as you learn from it. Over time, it all adds up in a positive way, so long as your learning. Never stop learning, and you'll never stop having some measure of success.

- Sometimes if what your doing isn't working, try something different, or try a different approach. Spot and stalk not working? Screw it, go still hunting. Neither working? Then go make a blind in a likely spot and sit there for awhile. You never know.

- Try and enjoy the chase. Think of it as a chess match between you and the mountains. Think. 

- My worst day hunting , is still better then my best day in the city.

- This isn't a seasonal thing, its a life style. I'm already making plans for next year. I'm chasing dogs this January.

-Vary your hunts. Do different things. Spring turkey, summer scouting, fall big game, winter time coyotes or hares. That's how I like to roll, family obligations permitting. You'll fiind success somewhere, either by learning something new, or simply being in the mountains.

- Success can be just seeing something cool, or just being close. 

Anyway, slow down, it's a journey. Not a destination where you punch your tag.

That's how I look at it anyway. Hunting is my midlife crisis. Life is going by way too fast, when i go to my deathbed, i want to look back with lots of mountain memories. Not sitting here behind a computer like I am now.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Ray said:


> I don’t do any glassing for birds and rabbits, I just head to their habitat and start walking, for waterfowl, I get out before the sun is up and set my decoys then sit
> 
> do you use the hunt planner at all? It’s got a good map layer for habitat


Yes I do! It's quite a nifty tool.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

MooseMeat said:


> You get good at killing stuff, by killing stuff. And you can’t do that at home or if you quit. You can watch every YouTube video or listen to every hunting podcast out there, but until you figure out how to do it on your own, in your own “way”, they won’t help much. They can give you tips and ideas, but certainly won’t do anything until you apply them to your own experiences. Trying things for yourself and seeing what works and doesn’t work will take a lot of time. And only you can’t invest in that. I use several methods personally that work incredibly well for me, but don’t work for others. And same goes for the other way around. Just need to find and figure out your style and how to beneficially use it.
> 
> there isn’t a general buck unit in the state that can’t produce success year after year. There isn’t a spike bull unit in the state that can’t produce year after year. Some are better than others, but they all will provide opportunities. You have to decide how bad you want it and how much you’re willing to work for it. That starts with scouting and ends with planing for next year with the information that you learned during the last season you hunted. It’s a cycle that never stops if it is important to you. I didn’t know how to kill elk or even find them 17 years ago. If I saw an elk during the entire season I was lucky. But I kept at it. And for many years in a row I could tell you where elk weren’t, but using that info year after year, after awhile I started finding them and killing them. Now it’s not hard at all. Same goes for deer or anything else I choose to hunt. You get out of it, what you invest into it. Don’t be afraid to explore new areas, but always start with what you know. If that doesn’t work, check over that next ridge. Go look at that finger canyon off the beat path. You’d be surprised how close to traffic animals stay, but never get bothered with because it’s overlooked by everyone else. For every big animal I’ve seen killed in the back country, I’ve seen 2 killed within a few minutes walk off a main road or trail. They are where you find them. So look everywhere you can think of.
> 
> ...


That's great information, thank you! That's a great perspective, to look at where I haven't seen animals as a data point of where I can know for the future where animals aren't and continue to build that information! 

A cow tag would be incredible! I would be extremely grateful, thank you so much! I'll pm you to get some more details!


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I can somewhat relate. I'm still married, but my daughter is 7, going on 8, I'm 99% solo, and started hunting about a year or so after I moved here in 2011. I've had to learn a lot on my own. The mountains, the seasons, the game, etc, you name it. No buddies to call on that i've known for years like most guys, nothing like that. Steep learning curve. Tag soup? I've got that in spades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha ha I like that, hunting is my midlife crisis, that cracked me up! But it's way better than a red corvette! 
Thank you so much for this, that's a great way to look at things and I'm going to apply that mindset moving forward!


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

I can't put into words how much I appreciate you guys. You've given me an incredible amount of information and advice in general. You've all helped me center my mindset and get me into a better space moving forward. You guys are awesome!
Moosemeat, that was an unexpected and gigantic gesture that I'm so grateful for! I pm'd you. Thank you so much! I don't know how, but I'm sure we'll find out someway I can repay your generosity. My daughter has been wanting to try elk and, obviously, haven't been able to pull that through for her lol. She will be just as excited as I am right now ha ha

Thanks everyone!


----------



## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Haven't posted on here for a while but I saw this post and your messages about the rangetrend study site so I thought I'd mention the websites I use for hunting in Utah, for what it's worth. You've probably seen some of this.

Utah Wildlife Calendar for hunt start/end dates and reminders for tag application periods.






Wildlife calendar


Calendar of all Utah wildlife events, including, hunts, drawings, RAC and Board meetings, and wildlife viewings.




wildlife.utah.gov





Utah Hunt Planner: hunts and their boundaries and dates, private/public land map, species range maps, CWMUs, walk-in access areas. Click the highlighted areas on the map for a description of the property/hunt/whatever.






Utah Hunt Planner -- Utah Division of Wildlife Resources


The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources' Utah Hunt Planner is an interactive map designed to help hunters research hunting units. The Utah Hunt Planner also provides the legal hunting boundaries approved by the Utah Wildlife Board. Research hunts and units before you apply in the big game...



dwrapps.utah.gov





Utah Commuter Link traffic cameras, live pictures of current conditions at hundreds of places around the state.






UDOT TRAFFIC







commuterlink.utah.gov





Fishing reports:






Fish Utah -- Division of Wildlife Resources


The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources' Utah Fishing Planner is an interactive map designed to help hunters research fishing areas. The Utah Fish Planner also provides the legal fishing rules approved by the Utah Wildlife Board.



dwrapps.utah.gov





County parcel maps, a lot of guys run with the OnX app that is a subscription service for seeing land ownership on your phone in real time, which is great but it kept screwing up on my phone and I got annoyed with having to pay for something that only worked half the time. The county parcel maps are probably more accurate anyway, but not every county has theirs online. Kind of feel like they're hard to read if you don't already know the areas, usually matching it to the hunt boundary maps and landownership overlay on the Hunt Planner works pretty good. Here's some parcel maps.

Utah County: Utah County Parcel Map

Wasatch: ArcGIS Web Application

Summit: ArcGIS Web Application


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> I do have access to ground where a OTC private lands tag which was still available last I looked can be hunted this year. I can check with the land owner to see if they would allow me to take a new hunter out, but this certainly would be a 1 time deal. You can’t go back or get access for yourself on the same property in the future. 1 and done.


Sheesh, Moose- you're going to ruin your rep if you keep being so agreeable and friendly. Very generous offer.


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Packout said:


> Sheesh, Moose- you're going to ruin your rep if you keep being so agreeable and friendly. Very generous offer.


I’ll never give a guy a hard time for legitimately trying to figure out things on their own first before asking for handouts. It’s the other guys I have the issue.

Update: I haven’t been able to get a hold of the land owner yet. He’s Not local and doesn’t have much communication with the outside world, so I’m not sure where we stand with that yet. But I am gonna go drive around tomorrow morning and see if I can find some within shooting distance from the road. If I happen to get lucky, ill be sending the OP a message to arrange for him to get his meat for the freezer.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Best of luck! I might be called selfish for saying that ha ha


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

StorminNorman said:


> Best of luck! I might be called selfish for saying that ha ha


Found the elk. An early locked gate prevented me from getting to them this morning. I’ll try again next weekend


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

What elevation are you seeing elk at?


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Ray said:


> What elevation are you seeing elk at?


I saw elk from 9k to 6k. Most were lower than higher. I saw a group of cows higher than a group of mountain goats. If the gate was open like it should be for another couple days, I could have shot one from the road, out of a herd of 150.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Have you ever heard of people locking gates or cutting down a tree so it falls on the trail to prevent people from access?


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

StorminNorman said:


> Have you ever heard of people locking gates or cutting down a tree so it falls on the trail to prevent people from access?


I’ve ran into the tree cutting scenario 1 time. A guy drew a big bull tag for an area my family hunted for many years. His plans were to hunt a spring at the end of an atv road, so to keep people out of there, he cut down a miles worth of cedars across a road to keep people out. Wasn’t a great area to begin with and certainly not a popular spot for many reasons, but that’s what he was doing.

locking gates by a private citizen, I haven’t seen yet. If gates get locked early it’s either weather related. Today im not sure what their reasoning is, but they’ve locked several other gates in the same area too 1-3 weeks sooner than what the dates on the sign or their maps say they close.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

MooseMeat said:


> I’ve ran into the tree cutting scenario 1 time. A guy drew a big bull tag for an area my family hunted for many years. His plans were to hunt a spring at the end of an atv road, so to keep people out of there, he cut down a miles worth of cedars across a road to keep people out. Wasn’t a great area to begin with and certainly not a popular spot for many reasons, but that’s what he was doing.
> 
> locking gates by a private citizen, I haven’t seen yet. If gates get locked early it’s either weather related. Today im not sure what their reasoning is, but they’ve locked several other gates in the same area too 1-3 weeks sooner than what the dates on the sign or their maps say they close.


It's crazy to me the extent of negative or illegal things people will do in the name of game harvesting.


----------



## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

This has been a good read. Stormin, I feel for you. Hunting (and fishing to a lesser extent for me) can be astonishingly frustrating at times, but it does get better over time. My number one piece of advice is to be persistent...especially while you are learning. Often, success comes about because a hunter is willing to go above and beyond consistently. Getting up early to be in your spot 30 minutes before shooting light. Staying until after shooting light before hiking out in the dark, putting in your scouting before hunting an area, shooting enough to be proficient before your hunt begins, so that when opportunity calls, you can answer, staying in shape so that you can go over that next ridge, hunting until the last minute if the last day...even if you haven't seen squat the entire hunt. If you do the above, and more, success will come. At some point, the probability odds will swing in your favor.

A couple other observations. In one of your posts it sounded like you were hiking out to be at your truck at dark. If it is deer or elk you are after, the best times to find them are the first and last hour. If you're not sitting and glassing during those times, you are wasting the most productive hours of the day.

Get the best equipment you can afford. Crappy equipment performs crappily (like my word choice?). I equate hip boots with crappy equipment if you're hunting ducks in anything more than shin high water. Those damm things will get you wet more often than not, and hunting SUCKS when you're wet. Get a decent, affordable pair of chest waders. They don't have to be Sitka...just something reasonable and then chuck those hip waders!!!

If you're after big game, hunting an area consistently will make you a better hunter. Time on the same ground will make you better. Find an area with does or cows and the bucks and bulls won't be too far off...just in different places and groups. Find the girls and you'll find the guys.

As to Moose's offer to help with the meat, I don't know your situation, but if you want some help one evening, I would be more than willing to show you the ropes on cutting up an animal if you live somewhere between Springville and Ogden-ish. I hate paying someone else to do what I can do myself! Besides, if you do it yourself, you know it's your animal taken care of the right way (hopefully). Just be aware than an elk is no walk in the park to process. If he bring you a calf, no big deal...one night, maybe two. If it's a full grown, long necked lead cow that's a good 10-15 hours of work, so plan accordingly. I usually space those out over 3 or 4 nights if by myself. While working, i could give you some tips on cooking it up so your daughter will want more. Elk is pretty good but if you overcook any wild game, it can go from bad to gag in a hurry. We can talk about the draws and maybe get you a workable plan to put you in decent areas with good animal numbers too. PM me if interested.

Things will come together for you. Kudos for reaching out. That takes some humility to do so...even if it's over the internet.


----------



## Rubythroat (Aug 23, 2021)

Hang in there!!! I have a similar situation - my little hunting buddy can maybe go for about 2 hours and slowly cruise for about a mile without me having to carry him (we have to investigate every puddle, rock, stick and poop pile as well). I have kept my hunts small and very planned: pick 2-3 spots, go until they are bored and call it. We get lucky often, but we rarely limit out. We go slow and check every promising habitat we pass without fail.

My tips: find a mentor, join a club, volunteer at an organization and join a chapter, ride along with DNR officers, pay for a guide, go to a fly shop and take a casting class, put out an ad on ksl to pay a guy who goes all the time - my point... learn from people who know the area and can hunt it well. Get out there and learn the lands off-season and just crank it during the fall when conditions and populations are right.. you don't have to learn things the hard way if you don't want to. Hiking is fun, but hunting is better. Good luck!!


----------



## EchoLimaKilo (Feb 10, 2021)

I’ve been hunting for about 12 years now, took me 5 years to kill my first big game animal and I’ve been consistent after that but man was it a looong 5 years with a ton of (now I understand) needless miles hiked.

Lately I’ve been taking out a buddy who’s getting into hunting and it definitely serves to remind me of the mistakes that I used to make and some of the things I’ve learned that I now take for granted.

I think the biggest factor that contributed to my learning and understanding was just getting out year round packing in for a night or two and finding animals. Then build a mental database of the type of terrain, time of day, direction of travel etc. Look at a map and try to understand why animals are in the areas you saw them in, then target similar areas when you’re out moving around. Things change with the seasons but you’ll have a better understanding of behavior in general. Also you don’t even have to pack in far, but as mentioned it helps keep you out there and in a good spot early and late. 

Having that understanding of where I’m more likely to see game really helps me to slow down and take my time in certain spots and go more quickly through unlikely terrain to access better areas.

Hope that helps some, I know the frustration but keep at it and the pieces will fall into place!


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

StorminNorman said:


> Have you ever heard of people locking gates or cutting down a tree so it falls on the trail to prevent people from access?





StorminNorman said:


> It's crazy to me the extent of negative or illegal things people will do in the name of game harvesting.


You opened a can of worms now. Certain private property owners in certain areas are known for all manner of asshattery on bordering public land. Cutting down tree stands, or cutting down trees hunters will set their stands in, driving elk onto their property, fudging property line signs 20-30 yards into public so certain wallows or watering holes are "in" their land, the list goes on.

I think mainly because they're charging out the ass to hunt on their land. I recently heard of a guy who paid up to this one property owner i'm thinking of, because he had an LE rifle tag, which takes like 16 freaking years to get, so he coughed up the dough that only encourages this kind of behavior from property owners. I'm guessing he paid 4 digits in cash for his "guided hunt".

Oh how i despise this particualr proprty owner. ****er lives in St George, and bought up some of the best prime elk hunting area in the area. Several in fact. I hear he has 27 bulls on his property, all trophy quality, and he guards them zealously both legally, and illegally.

This guy gives private property owners a bad name.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

EchoLimaKilo said:


> I’ve been hunting for about 12 years now, took me 5 years to kill my first big game animal and I’ve been consistent after that but man was it a looong 5 years with a ton of (now I understand) needless miles hiked.
> 
> Lately I’ve been taking out a buddy who’s getting into hunting and it definitely serves to remind me of the mistakes that I used to make and some of the things I’ve learned that I now take for granted.
> 
> ...


I was actually thinking about doing that in the offseason so I'm glad I'm on the right track of thinking. I love to be in the woods, hunting or not, so it seems like a good excuse anyway! I hope during the offseason to get to know the animals I'm chasing and their habits a lot better, get to really know how they move, when they move, what terrain and vegetation they like to be in and eat, etc. 
Sounds like your buddy has found a willing and capable mentor so I hope he is able to cut down the learning curve and really appreciate what he has and take advantage of your knowledge.
If I can try to get a nugget of that knowledge so I might be able to START in the right place and cut down the time to figure out where to actually even begin, may I ask you what areas you would slow down in and what areas you would blow right through in if you were out in the mountains? Type of terrain, vegetation, elevation, etc. that you would consider a good place to start or a place you would hike through to get to a better starting point? I know this would be species specific and dependent on time of year but honestly any advice would be extremely valuable! From big game to small, 4 legged critters to winged ones such as upland game.
Any help would be very appreciated but I understand that the scope of my question is very large so no worries if you don't feel like typing out a novel lol.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> You opened a can of worms now. Certain private property owners in certain areas are known for all manner of asshattery on bordering public land. Cutting down tree stands, or cutting down trees hunters will set their stands in, driving elk onto their property, fudging property line signs 20-30 yards into public so certain wallows or watering holes are "in" their land, the list goes on.
> 
> I think mainly because they're charging out the ass to hunt on their land. I recently heard of a guy who paid up to this one property owner i'm thinking of, because he had an LE rifle tag, which takes like 16 freaking years to get, so he coughed up the dough that only encourages this kind of behavior from property owners. I'm guessing he paid 4 digits in cash for his "guided hunt".
> 
> ...


I love this story. Care to share anymore details.


----------



## StorminNorman (Nov 11, 2021)

Lone_Hunter said:


> You opened a can of worms now. Certain private property owners in certain areas are known for all manner of asshattery on bordering public land. Cutting down tree stands, or cutting down trees hunters will set their stands in, driving elk onto their property, fudging property line signs 20-30 yards into public so certain wallows or watering holes are "in" their land, the list goes on.
> 
> I think mainly because they're charging out the ass to hunt on their land. I recently heard of a guy who paid up to this one property owner i'm thinking of, because he had an LE rifle tag, which takes like 16 freaking years to get, so he coughed up the dough that only encourages this kind of behavior from property owners. I'm guessing he paid 4 digits in cash for his "guided hunt".
> 
> ...


That's wild.... and very sad and frustrating. Unfortunately it seems like that scenario would be all too common. The one thing that makes people do crazy things more than antlered game is money. Including our state and those who like the big bucks flowing in for the big bucks. You can't change some people but I think what we can do is support those who do the right thing and support organizations that are interested in expanding public access and contribute to the management of the game we all love. Teach others when we can, pick up trash found when we're out and about in our public lands, really try to control the factors that we can directly affect, and turn in those that are doing unscrupulous activities such as that guy. 
I don't know, I'm just rambling, but I like to think that if I and others like me try our hardest to do good we will be in good shape. Those 27 bulls are bulls I will never see and can't do anything about so let me focus on the ones that I do have access to, even though those 27 bulls on his land aren't his, they're ours, the people's. But man, if that doesn't make you want to kick something lol


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Save your pennies and jump in. You too can be a land baron.






Utah Ranches for Sale - 63 Listings | Land and Farm


Find Utah Ranches for sale. View photos, research land, search and filter more than 63 listings | Land and Farm




www.landandfarm.com


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> I love this story. Care to share anymore details.


Not without revealing hunting area, it's my inlaws primary hunting area, so im not saying where. Everything I cited, didn't happen all at once. Over the period of years. Some of it i've seen myself, some of it I haven't. I actually stopped hunting the area for a few years because I was so frustrated with this public/private boundary. Tried to find another area.

It was so bad, at least on one hunt i can recall in specific, we'd be sitting there about 20 yards or so from the boundary with our backs to it, trying to get some elk as they were making their typical beelines from public to private on opening day, all the while those guys patrolling the area just waiting for someone to step ONE foot into their precious domain. They just stood there, glassing us, watching, waiting for one of us to screw up. Same patrol intimidation crap every year, I hate it. Have hunted the general area again the last couple years, out of lack of better place to hunt. 

One spot, I kid you not, there's a watering hole 10 feet or so into public. Very contentious spot. I don't hunt it, but it's a veritable elk graveyard. In the days before OnX, my inlaws literally got surveyors maps to see where the EXACT boundary is. Like i said, very contentious. Leaves a rotten taste in your mouth. If I could find a better area, i'd never go back again.


----------



## Rubythroat (Aug 23, 2021)

Part 2 of my first post: here are some pictures of our most recent successful hunt on public lands. (They wouldn't post when I tried to then 🤷‍♂️). No dog, we go really slow - I have to go at the 3yo's pace (about 1 mile before carrying, and 2 hours total) - but we plan ahead so that we are in the best areas for the maximum amount of time. It takes a lot of patience and knowing habitats and we work hard to get flushing birds. Another great tool : the onX hunting app shows private vs public lands. It makes planning a bit easier.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Not without revealing hunting area, it's my inlaws primary hunting area, so im not saying where. Everything I cited, didn't happen all at once. Over the period of years. Some of it i've seen myself, some of it I haven't. I actually stopped hunting the area for a few years because I was so frustrated with this public/private boundary. Tried to find another area.
> 
> It was so bad, at least on one hunt i can recall in specific, we'd be sitting there about 20 yards or so from the boundary with our backs to it, trying to get some elk as they were making their typical beelines from public to private on opening day, all the while those guys patrolling the area just waiting for someone to step ONE foot into their precious domain. They just stood there, glassing us, watching, waiting for one of us to screw up. Same patrol intimidation crap every year, I hate it. Have hunted the general area again the last couple years, out of lack of better place to hunt.
> 
> One spot, I kid you not, there's a watering hole 10 feet or so into public. Very contentious spot. I don't hunt it, but it's a veritable elk graveyard. In the days before OnX, my inlaws literally got surveyors maps to see where the EXACT boundary is. Like i said, very contentious. Leaves a rotten taste in your mouth. If I could find a better area, i'd never go back again.


Thanks. I was more interested in a ball park figure the amount of acreage and how much they charge for a bull tag.

Boundary lines can be pretty volatile sometimes. I can understand both sides. Posting public land as private is just as unlawful as trespassing on private land without permission. I guess I just can't fault some land owners for aggressively patrolling their property. You see it all the time, not just for hunting season.

I had a friend who was involved in re surveying Weber County when lasers first came out. He had some pretty amazing stories about how far off some lines were. And I've seen some old fences that are close but not quite right. And OnX has helped a lot but if you want to get in a boundary fight I wouldn't rely on just it.


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> Thanks. I was more interested in a ball park figure the amount of acreage and how much they charge for a bull tag.


I'ts in the 4 digits in acerage. I don't know for sure, but my guess it was SITLA land the state sold many years ago. As to how much he charges, I honestly don't want to know, it will only make me more bitter, and i'm bitter enough as it is already. Asshattery breeds contempt. Whole thing goes back to the state selling trust lands, and public land issues in general.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Yea it makes you all warm and fuzzy that the state bought Antelope Island instead of this at the time.









Success Stories: The Deseret Land & Livestock Ranch - Holistic Management International


The Deseret Land & Livestock Ranch (DLL) is 200,000 acres (80,000 ha) of private land on elevations that range from 6,300 to 8,700 feet (2,100-2,900 m). Currently DLL runs 4,500 mother cows and 4,000 yearlings as well as providing 56,880 AUM of forage for wildlife. This is a 100% increase since...




holisticmanagement.org


----------



## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I love the fact that the state bought Antelope Island instead of DLL!!! Think of what kind of trash dump DLL would’ve turned into in the hands of the state.

Animals found private property are viewed as asset to the landowner, plain and simple. I’d love to buy a hunt from the land owner cited above if he truly has “trophy” quality bulls and is only charging four-figures!! Care to pass over his contact info?


----------



## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

Hey Lone Hunter are you as upset when people blatantly trespass on private land? Tow weeks ago I was on a section of private land a neighbor of mine owns. Locked gates at the bottom and top of his land. (Gates that were never locked until a wonderful sportsman stuck two arrows into two of his registered Hereford heifers for sport) He is an older man with health problems and myself and my cousin took horses out to gather some cattle for him. All of a sudden I hear gravel and the sound of tires but no engine noise. Here came 3 mountain bikers who had ridden over the mountain and down the canyon. When they encountered the locked gate and no trespassing sign they simply lifted their bikes over the gate and continued on their merry asshattery way. When I tried to stop them and ask them what the hell they thought they were doing they completely ignored both of us and peddled off. If I would of been on my horse I would of roped one of the SOBs and had a come to Jesus Meeting. For every story you have about a landowner I have ten about “sportsmen” who trespass, poach, vandalize, harass and feel the law doesn’t apply to them. I’m amazed at the entitled BS people have nowadays. Zero respect for private land. I wonder how you would feel if someone entered your home without permission? How would you feel if someone went through your car? How would you feel if someone shot a pet in your backyard? But because it happens on a larger piece of land that makes it ok? There are piece of crap land owners. There are also many sportsmen that are just as bad, if not worse. As a member of the Utah Cattleman’s association I can tell you hundreds of horrific experiences that have happened to our members and their families. So pardon me from not being to upset that you have your panties wadded up because a landowner wants to keep trespassers off their property!


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

CPAjeff said:


> I love the fact that the state bought Antelope Island instead of DLL!!! Think of what kind of trash dump DLL would’ve turned into in the hands of the state.
> 
> Animals found private property are viewed as asset to the landowner, plain and simple. I’d love to buy a hunt from the land owner cited above if he truly has “trophy” quality bulls and is only charging four-figures!! Care to pass over his contact info?


I figured you would jump in. LOL
I happen to agree. But I could be completely wrong but I don't think selling those tags make a ton of difference to the bottom line. Am I wrong? $25,000 per tag doesn't go that far.


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Well it's been said that hunting has turned into a rich mans sport. How anyone would pay that much money for someone to point out an elk to shoot is beyond me. I've lived on a fixed budget my whole life. 4 digits to me, is a lot of money. I don't even know if that's what the guy charges, but for what should be a 50 or 500 dollar tag, turning into a 4 to 5 digit tag being sold by some some landowner blows my mind on principle. It ain't right, its robbery.

Speaking of landowners, I'll point out that ive been shot at while I was ON PUBLIC, FROM PRIVATE, from a completely different landowner then the one I mentioned while effing turkey hunting, and I was NOT trespassing. I wasn't even close to the boundary. I have never trespassed, nor ever would. I don't agree with private property in the middle of public land, but i always follow the law. Combine that incident with the above mentioned landowner, and I could give less then a **** about the woes of land owners.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Well it's been said that hunting has turned into a rich mans sport. How anyone would pay that much money for someone to point out an elk to shoot is beyond me. I've lived on a fixed budget my whole life. 4 digits to me, is a lot of money. I don't even know if that's what the guy charges, but for what should be a 50 or 500 dollar tag, turning into a 4 to 5 digit tag being sold by some some landowner blows my mind on principle. It ain't right, its robbery.
> 
> Speaking of landowners, I'll point out that ive been shot at while I was ON PUBLIC, FROM PRIVATE, from a completely different landowner then the one I mentioned while effing turkey hunting, and I was NOT trespassing. I wasn't even close to the boundary. I have never trespassed, nor ever would. I don't agree with private property in the middle of public land, but i always follow the law. Combine that incident with the above mentioned landowner, and I could give less then a **** about the woes of land owners.


Sounds like to me you need to find a different area that's not so close to these problem areas. There's millions of acres not even close to private property. I believe you'd be much happier if you did so.


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

ridgetop said:


> Sounds like to me you need to find a different area that's not so close to these problem areas. There's millions of acres not even close to private property. I believe you'd be much happier if you did so.


but what’s he going to complain about then?


----------



## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

Lone hunter here is a good question for you. If you saw a person or people scouting your backyard would it concern you? What if some even came on to your property? Any concern at all? After all you are a landowner too? (Unless you are a renter) what if those same folks just hung out just over your fence every day for 8 or 9 days? No concern at all for ya? What if they were carrying rifles or archery equipment? Still good with that? I fully understand you most likely don’t have game animals on your lawn. It’s a different perspective for you and a 1/4 acre lot in a subdivision. But that doesn’t mean someone with 10000 acres shouldn’t have the same concerns you would if the above happened next to the fence at your home! I’ve hunted multiple western states for 37 years. I’ve NEVER had a single experience like you have described. Not ONE!!! I’ve been told no when I’ve asked for permission to hunt private land. I’ve also been told yes and made lifetime friendships with a few guys. I’d encourage you to lose the chip on your shoulder and try seeing a different perspective. Maybe it’ll change how ya feel. And maybe I’m wasting my breath. Good luck to ya


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Just because it never happened to you, doesn't mean it can't happen. In my case i've been told more then once, if it weren't for bad luck, i'd have none at all. As it is currently, there's enough hunters around now, where it's curbed one land owners shenanigans somewhat, and the other area I just don't go to anymore, my wife has forbidden me from ever entering that canyon again. I made the mistake of telling her on the phone as I was leaving the area, and she called the sherrif, who in turn was on the phone going, "let me guess, he was at....." In other words the area has a history of similar events. Which sucks because there's some Toms in that area.

Of course, there is more to that story, it's not just the one land owner, there's several cabin plots at the end of this canyon. One of those owners back there ran over someones dog and drove off. Probably the same guy who took a few pot shots in my general direction. I know this because the public access road was locked (late april at the time) the only people who had the key to the gate were the cabin owners at the end of the canyon, and I was the only hunter in the area walking on the road. It was a few miles from the gate to where the turkeys were. Someone stopped and asked me about it, and if i'd seen anything. That's how I know about the dog incident. I honestly think it's the same guy.

As public vs private goes, unless this land is actually being lived on as a homestead or a ranch or a farm, or even just a cabin, I don't equate that land being the same as my own house.


----------



## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

This might come as a shock to you, but there’s more than 1 canyon in utah that has turkeys in them. There’s thousands of them actually! Many are 100% Public that don’t see any pressure from other hunters. Pick one and move on. You’re a victim of your own decisions.


----------

