# Spotting scope recommendation



## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

What do you guys have ? thx


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Vortex Razor, old model. 65mm objective. Wanted smaller so it was easier to carry around. 

I’ve compared side by side with Swaro, and it isn’t equal, to be clear. But it was also 1/4 the cost, so assuming it would be equal would be a bit silly. If I could have afforded a $2500 spotter at the time, I’d have bought a Swaro. If I could afford $5-6k right now, I’d get the Swaro ATX with both the 65 and 95 objectives, and use each for different applications. 

My Razor works fine. I’ll stick with it for a long while, I suspect.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Leupold Gold Ring 12-40x60. Compact, lightwieght, clear, large field of view, lighter weight, full lifetime warranty, good eye relief, etc... I always pack a spotter when hunting and I have tried all brands of scopes. You can find the HD model for around $1,000 if you watch for deals. For the money, for my uses, and for my eyes, the Leupold wins.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Swarovski angled 65mm HD. Like Vanilla, I went 65mm to save weight and space. I absolutely love it, and it's been one of the best purchases I've ever made. Hurts to lay down the cash, but you only feel the hit for a short time, then it's nothing but good memories! Lifetime warranty is awesome too.

I do like the Leupolds as Packout laid out. Some day, I may purchase one because they are indeed lighter and more compact.


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

I've got the Vortex Viper HD 20-6x80 Straight. I love it! But I also don't pack it into where I am going during the hunts. So size and weight don't matter much.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Vortex Razor 20-60x80mm, original version. Lifetime warrenty, extremely clear glass. Original versions are lighter than Gen2's, and have the fine focus knob and a few other niceties. Never regretted the purpose.


-DallanC


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

It kind of depends on how you are going to use the spotter. I discovered that I needed 2 spotters. One for packing and one to stay with the vehicle for use with higher magnification. I use a Kowa 60mm with a fixed 30x for packing with a lightweight carbon tripod. It only adds 3lbs to the pack and I leave a Kowa 884 which weighs 5lbs plus 4lbs for the tripod in the truck when I need to really get detail at long range from a vehicle.

Having said all that, last year I discovered a premium pair of 15x56 on a tripod works the best for me. I spot more animals with the 15x56s than the spotters because I can sit behind the binos for hours whereas after 15 minutes behind a spotter, my eyes start to wig out. The down side to the binos is you can't see as much detail on a specific animal so now I carry the 15x56 and use them with the spotters. I swap out the binos and scope on the tripod while backpacking, but usually just set up both tripods when spotting from a vehicle.

For a truck spotter, the Kowa 884 is better than any spotter out there except for Swarovski ATX with the 95mm objective. I have compared it with the meopta 82mm, leica 77, and swarovski sts 80mm HD and it beat them all. The owner of a vortex razor laughed at how much better it was than his scope. 

For a backpacker, I have seen crazy good reviews from the Kowa 554, but I haven't looked through one yet. For all around good scope, lots of guys use the swaro 65mm ats or sts HD which is what I would get if I were to only get 1 scope. Lots of them show up on KSL for around $1500.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

DallanC said:


> Vortex Razor 20-60x80mm, original version. Lifetime warrenty, extremely clear glass. Original versions are lighter than Gen2's, and have the fine focus knob and a few other niceties. Never regretted the purpose.
> -DallanC


I have the Razor HD and a Diamond Back. Definitely the best bang for your buck. I think of it this way... Compared to a Swaro these are at 85% to 90% of their performance for 30% to 50% the price depending on what Swaro you compare to. Is spending that extra money really worth it? Then you have the VIP warranty, n'uff said!


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

So hunting optics is a hobby of mine. This will probably ruffle some feathers, but over the years, I have owned a pair of Vortex Talons, Viper HDs, and a pair of Razor binoculars. I also owned a Gen 2 Razor 80mm spotter. I have also owned 4 different rifle scopes from Viper to PSTs. I have since sold them all to get better optics.

Vortex glass is average at best. It hit me when I was looking through a $100 40mm Leupold Rifleman scope that was brighter and sharper than a 42mm $400 Viper scope at the same magnification. The viper HD and Razor binos were decent and the gen 2 razor scope was good, but IMO, there is better optics out there for less money and there is substantially better optics out there for more money.

I understand vortex has a good warranty and while never personally taking advantage of that, I know a couple guys that have been treated very well by Vortex. The warranty, however, doesn't help find animals while looking through a scope or binos.

I always ask myself (meaning my wife asks) about how much difference premium optics make in hunting and truth be told, there are hunts where premium optics didn't make one bit of difference. However, there are hunts that would have ended very differently without good optics. For the average hunter that drives around and only looks through optics to see if it is a buck or shoot it, don't waste your money. In my case, I have them for those times where it changes the game.

Really good scopes I have owned/tested for $1000-$2500 range. Meopta Meostar S2 82mm (Same as Cabelas Euro 82mm), Swarovki 65mm and 80mm STS & ATS HD, Kowa 773,774, Kowa 883, 884, Kowa 823, 824, Leica APO 77.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

I have the Swaro 95 ATX. Im saving to get the 65mm objective for packing etc. Its pretty awesome and I dont get as fatigued as other spotters but yes its costly. I saved a while for it. I found it all comes down to personal prefrence. Id hit a cabelas and have them set you up outside to look thru them all.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

MadHunter said:


> I have the Razor HD and a Diamond Back. Definitely the best bang for your buck. I think of it this way... *Compared to a Swaro these are at 85% to 90% of their performance* for 30% to 50% the price depending on what Swaro you compare to. Is spending that extra money really worth it? Then you have the VIP warranty, n'uff said!


So that right there doesn't compute for me... I agree, with the Gen1 Razors all the optics magazines and owners were saying optically, it was fractionally less than a Swaro or Kowa.

But now, people are saying the Gen2's are "so much better than the Gen1". Does that mean Gen2's are now equal to Swaro? I dont hear anyone saying that... they say its "almost" equal to Swaro... the same thing folks were saying with the Gen1's... so how can a Gen2 be so much better than Gen1?

LOL

-DallanC


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

I get your point Dallan. I actually think my Gen2 Razor is a huge improvement over the DB. They are not in the same ball park as products so I know I got what I paid for. Compared to some of the Swaros that I have looked through I stand by my statement of money vs performance. However, I was conservative in the performance arena. My personal opinion is that my Razor is almost as good as a Swaro. That may not be the case for others it's just for me. 

Consensus is (by users and the mags) that the Vortex is fractionally less optically than a Swaro. Perhaps the writes in those mags got kickbacks. LOL!! I think that if I did have the cash to burn on a Swaro and used it as much as I use my Vortex I might be biased towards them. To this day I have always been able to see the same stuff as the guy next to me with Swaro and I can see as clearly as I would expect.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

I've got the Swaro 65mm ATS with the 25-50W eye piece. I absolutely love this set-up. I would love to have the 80mm scope, but the wide angle eye piece makes up for some of that, and it's much easier to pack. 

I run that with a light weight carbon tripod that has been great to use. 

Very expensive set-up but I think I would have saved money had I gotten this in the beginning and not bought and sold several others in my search for quality optics with no eye strain. I've owned both the Vortex Razor spotter, and binoculars before and have since switch to Swaro SLC 10x42HD binocs, and the scope. I use all of the optics mentioned in this post several times every month. This isn't something I get out for a week every fall. It's used year round. By far the most used thing I've got in the hunting category. 

I've also since switched over to the PhoneCam set-up through TinesUp. Far superior to PhoneSkope in my opinion. Since switching to TinesUp, I've also gotten their ScopeCam set-up and have been getting the best video footage I've ever gotten through a spotter. It's awesome!!!

Plenty of nice optics out there. I'll have this Swaro for the long run... Since getting it I've not l've not looked for upgrades at all. Though I've heard great things about Kowa.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

MadHunter said:


> I get your point Dallan. I actually think my Gen2 Razor is a huge improvement over the DB. They are not in the same ball park as products so I know I got what I paid for. Compared to some of the Swaros that I have looked through I stand by my statement of money vs performance. However, I was conservative in the performance arena. My personal opinion is that my Razor is almost as good as a Swaro. That may not be the case for others it's just for me.
> 
> Consensus is (by users and the mags) that the Vortex is fractionally less optically than a Swaro. Perhaps the writes in those mags got kickbacks. LOL!! I think that if I did have the cash to burn on a Swaro and used it as much as I use my Vortex I might be biased towards them. To this day I have always been able to see the same stuff as the guy next to me with Swaro and I can see as clearly as I would expect.


I don't have an issue at all with Vortex.. But when I was looking at some optics last year, I went to trusty old KSL classifieds and was overwhelmed with the amount of Razor Gen2s that were available for sell on KSL for quite a bit off the original price. I talked to several sellers of the people because I didn't want to spend the extra cash. I wanted to know how they felt about their performance, what they used it for, and why they were selling after just getting them. They all said they were getting something different for various reasons. In reference, there were page after page after page of Vortex products, and limited amounts of Swaro products. I get it, it's double the cost in some cases but to me it was worth the cost. I literally use mine twice a week or more.

Last fall, I had my Swaro side by side with a Vortex Razor out scouting until dark. The Razor was a clear glass. It's wasn't as crisp as the Swaro... Moreover, we stopped using the Razor about 20 minutes earlier than the Swaro. That was pretty eye opening to me.

Not trying to come across like a glass snob... It's just from my eyes, they aren't as close as people make them out to be. I had the Cabelas Krotos HD scope that I felt was better than the Razor. I haven't looked through the Kowa scopes because I've heard that they are nicer than the Swaro and I don't want to spend anymore money!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

BigT said:


> I haven't looked through the Kowa scopes because I've heard that they are nicer than the Swaro and I don't want to spend anymore money!


On my wifes Mt Goat hunt I got to look through a Swaro and a Kowa side by side looking at the same two billies. The Kowa was hands down clearer than the Swaro, thats not a knock in any way to Swarovski... its just that the Kowa was better. Seemed to be alot clearer through that early morning haze. I did not pack my Razor scope along on that hunt because it was overkill to have 3 big spotters.

-DallanC


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## Gledeasy (Mar 23, 2014)

I've used a Swarovski ATS 65 HD for years. I bought mine used for a pretty good deal. 

This year I bought a Swarovski BTX and the 65mm eyepiece. So far really impressed.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

toasty said:


> Having said all that, last year I discovered a premium pair of 15x56 on a tripod works the best for me. I spot more animals with the 15x56s than the spotters because I can sit behind the binos for hours whereas after 15 minutes behind a spotter, my eyes start to wig out. The down side to the binos is you can't see as much detail on a specific animal so now I carry the 15x56 and use them with the spotters. I swap out the binos and scope on the tripod while backpacking, but usually just set up both tripods when spotting from a vehicle.


Toasty is on to something here. Went out with a friend who had some high end Zeiss with a quick release attachment for a tripod. I tried it out and converted immediately to his religion. A week later, I bought some decent Zeiss and tripod. It's game-changing. Mine are only 10x. I can't imagine what some 15x would do. I know this isn't spotting scope related, but you may just consider the bino option.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Big T and Dallan bring up good points to go along with everyones eyes are different with spotters. Me being an eyeglass wearer I first wanted to go Vortex but to me eye relief was awful. To others maybe not. Maybe it was my glasses etc. I tried the swaro atx and huge eye relief with glasses. Not so much with the ats but atx yes. Ive since switched to contacts and wondered if I should have done that prior to buying and saved bucks for the vortex. But last weekend I was glassing some deer with a friend who brought his gen 1 out. Its good glass but when it came to checking if a deer was a buck or doe far off we had to use the atx. However my atx is the 95 so that couldve been a factor. Its big and heavier but I will pack it everywhere as its that good to me. But the vortex razor is good for that pricepoint.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Aznative said:


> But last weekend I was glassing some deer with a friend who brought his gen 1 out. Its good glass but when it came to checking if a deer was a buck or doe far off we had to use the atx.


Wow... how far away were they?

Before the UWN forum upgrade broke images hosted on other sides, I had posted pictures here of Mt Goats at 2.5 miles with my crappy phone held by hand to my Razor eyepiece... and you could easily tell the billys from the nannys.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One thing that I have learned is that when you are comparing two different optics is that they should be equal in the objective lens. For a extreme example don't compare a 60mm objective with a 85mm one especially for those just before looks. Even as little as 5mm will make quite a difference.

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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Yep thats why I stated it could be that mine was a 95 objective compared to his being an 85. And Dallan not sure as my rangefinder doesnt do miles but they were far enough off to where you could see a rack on mine but not on his. Even mine was pushing it a little but think it had to do with the brighter image of the swaro. I guess thats where the extra money comes to play. But in all how often do any of us need that much glass. I just figured if I was set on the atx why not go for the 95.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I have a Kowa 77 takes about another thousand dollars of hard earned cash to purchase a spotter that's a all around better performer

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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Here is a short video I took last night using my Vortex Razer 27x60 85mm spotter recorded on my I-phone XS Max and phoneskope.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Thanks fellers I'll let you know what I come up with. Do you prefer the angled eyepiece or straight ? thx


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I like angled. They are more comfortable for me to look through for long periods of time. That is entirely a personal preference thing.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Thanks fellers I'll let you know what I come up with. Do you prefer the angled eyepiece or straight ? thx


I liked angled for packing because you can use a shorter and lighter tripod and often you are glass from a sitting position which is more comfortable with an angled scope. Angled scopes are a little more compact as well. Downside to angled is it takes some practice to point it where you want it to go, but once you get used to it, it is about as fast as straight. Angled spotters can also be a little less expensive.

For spotting from a vehicle, I like straight because it is a little easier to find something in a straight scope vs an angled and works better from a window mounted spotter. I tried an angle from a window spotter and while I was able to make it work, it was very awkward compared to straight. Maybe you could get used to to it. They both work, but for an all around spotter, I would get a straight.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I also prefer angled spotting scopes

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I cant do angled, it kills my neck. I use straight, and different tripod heights so I'm in a comfortable position looking naturally towards the target.


-DallanC


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## racheberry (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't understand why people want to restrict using rifle scopes. In my opinion, this is one of the most useful instruments a hunter can have. I wasn't using a scope for my rifle until last season of hunting. I spoke with my friend, and he recommended the best torque wrench rifle scope, based on his words. I ordered the scope online, and when I got it, I was shocked at how huge it is and how lit it is looking on my rifle. During my first day of the hunt, I observed the difference. It is a lot easier to hunt with it because you can shoot from a bigger distance.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

So what did you end up getting?


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## 67015 (Jan 29, 2021)

I use a gen2 vortex razor 27- 60x85 uhd and its nice but I will be getting a swaro next. Theyre more expensive but they are better. In the end just get the best you can afford and if you don't like it work your way up. I take alot of pictures through mine and spend countless hours every year looking through it so id prefer to have the best glass I can afford while still being able to buy fuel to get out there


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

My eyes can no longer tell the difference between Kowa glass, Swaro glass or Vortex Razor glass... its probably only going to get worse as time goes on. I can still spot a buck at +400 yards with binos so I'm fine... although cant see a fishing hook to tie a knot anymore, even with reading glasses. I rely 100% on feel and muscle memory to tie hooks... dun it +10,000 times or so.

-DallanC


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I love resurrecting these old threads!

I still like my Razor. It’s still not the equal to the top glass out there. And it’s still 1/4 the cost. So…status quo in my world.


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## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

Razor 27x60x85 uhd and razor 12x50 uhd for me. Took awhile saved and then saved some more. Best idea ever for me....


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> I love resurrecting these old threads!
> 
> I still like my Razor. It’s still not the equal to the top glass out there. And it’s still 1/4 the cost. So…status quo in my world.


Always someone with their first post as well. 

I'll admit though, I am interested in what scope he ultimately settled on. I use the Kowa 883 and absolutely love it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Having looked between a Kowa and Swaro side by side on a Mt Goat hunt, I can say hands down the Kowa was better glass. That was when my eyes were way better than they are now. If I won the lotto with $$$ to burn, I'd definitely go Kowa.

-DallanC


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

You guys must have more money than me haha, but I ended up getting the Viper HD 20x60x85 straight and Vulture 15x56s for when I don't want to carry the spotter. I also got the

Ranger 1800. I got them each for half price . I know someone who works well you probably know where . So I couldn't say no to saving that much money but so far I'm happy with everything. thanks guys


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

7MM RELOADED said:


> You guys must have more money than me haha, but I ended up getting the Viper HD 20x60x85 straight and Vulture 15x56s for when I don't want to carry the spotter. I also got the
> 
> Ranger 1800. I got them each for half price . I know someone who works well you probably know where . So I couldn't say no to saving that much money but so far I'm happy with everything. thanks guys


Nothing wrong with your set-up. I think the Viper HD line is some of the best glass for the cost out there. Not to mention that you can't really go wrong with your connection! I am a bit of a gear nerd! But it's been quite the process and taken a very long time to buy a scope, save a little money, sell that scope and slowly upgrade to where I am at now. I got a pretty healthy discount on my Kowa as well that didn't hurt! I used to think that carrying the spotter around the mountain was a hassle... It does take a little space up, but it's used more than anything else. Especially with the digiscoping tools. But thats just me.. Its not for everyone.


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