# Youths First Rifle Recommendation



## gwhit67 (Dec 20, 2009)

I was looking for some input and recommendations for my grandson. He is going to be 12 next year and is as eager as I am to get him out there hunting. He has been going archery hunting with for the last 3 years. Now that he is going to be old enough I told him that we would getting him a tag next year and starting out on the rifle hunt. Anyone have any recommendations on a first time rifle? What caliber?

Thanks Guys!!!


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

25-06 or if he is big enough 308. Don't buy a youth caliber as he will grow out of it. These caliber can be shot for a lifetime.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

How big is his frame? Is he a bigger or smaller kid? There are a variety of different rifles to fit different frames, but sometimes caliber is a bit restricted.

I was at Cabelas saturday, let my 11 year old handle a few of the new Savages in Youth configurations. Unfortunately for my boy, no-one makes a lefty youth gun anymore.

What will he hunt with it? .243's are great deer and antelope guns out to 250 yards. 7mm-08's are popular and have the benefit of being able to take elk with premium bullets. 

My boy is going to be shooting my .270 this fall for cow elk, its a rare Left Handed Remington M700 BDL with a youth stock. It seems to fit him ok. He hasn't shot it yet, been working him up through the calibers, .22-250, .243 etc. He'll be proficient with it come Dec though.


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I second what was said about "youth" calibers. I would much rather see a youngster shooting reduced loads through a big rifle. These are available as factory loads from Remington. My little ones started shooting reduced loads in 308 Win at age 7-8. My daughter shot the 308 for a few years and now has herself a nice left-handed 270 BDL for her CWMU cow tag this year. Overall, I would recommend the 7-08, or 308 as best choices. Keep yardages short and either of these will kill anything up to Elk cleanly. My opinion is that the 243/257 calibers are much more suited to proficient marksment than inexperienced youth for big game use. Nothing makes up for shot placement, but a nice big bullet sure helps when things don't go perfect. Thats why my 15 year-old daughter carries a bigger gun in the field than I do. Just my opinion though.----------SS


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Maybe I am taking things a little too far but my wife will be hunting for the first time this year. I just bought her a .308...... and just incase that kicks a little too hard.... I just bought her a .243 as well.... and just incase she decides that she wanted to hunt fowl and upland game as well.... I bought her a 20 gauge as well.... 

I think that she is pretty flattered with my desire to make sure she is satisfied with every caliber and finding her the right gun.... :lol:


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I bought a single shot .270 made by CVA with interchangable stock from youth to adult size for my daughter to use this year for deer and elk. She is small frame and the gun fits her well. Reloading with a low powder loading and 130 gr bullet - mzl vel 2900 fps. Should be good for her and her sisters for years to come (yes, I live in a house full of females).


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

This topic seems to be almost a monthly occurrence and one that I enjoy. I have slowly been converted to the idea of making their first fun one that they can use forever, so make it a good one that they can grow into. The reduced recoil loads are a very nice concept that makes this possible. We all have that special place in our heart for that first rifle, just try to keep it on the lighter side. I really like the Rem 700 and the Savages are growing on me as long as they have the accutrigger. With the reduced recoil the caliber options are numbered with many really liking the 270 and the 308. I would keep it to a common caliber and not the obscure stuff like 7mm-08 or 25-06 because when the 12-year old forgets the ammo you will not find those at the Kamas Food Town, East Carbon Food Town, etc. on the way to your spot. 
If you would like to read similar threads on this:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42694&p=436695&hilit=youth#p436695
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19950&p=228233&hilit=youth#p228233
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=43443&p=443117&hilit=youth#p443117


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

My wife poked holes in one side and out the other of a caribou with a .243 and 100grn Noslers. Alot of people under-estimate it.

The big thing to watch out for with a larger caliber is if they develop a flinch. As long as you can avoid that you are GTG, otherwise they are better off with a smaller caliber.


-DallanC


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Cabelas has a Savage youth rifle outfit on sale right now for $329. It comes in 243, 25-06, 270, and 308. All would be good youth rounds. It'd be worth a trip to the green roof temple to check them out.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Gary stole my idea; I was just loading this pic as he posted. Here is the ad, they also offer 12 months no interest on Savage models purchased on their Cabela's Visa card.








http://content.yudu.com/A1xsdq/Cabelas7 ... /index.htm


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Those are the two we looked at Saturday. The lower one is clearly the better rifle. I did not like the bolt on the axis. Had they offered a lefty version we would have bought it on the spot.


-DallanC


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I cant say enough good things about this little gun. We have it shooting 1/2 inch groups now. For just over $300.00 not to bad if you ask me.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30098&p=318118&hilit=mossberg+atr#p318118


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

My son got a Remington 700 in 7mm-08 for his first rifle (he won it, so I didn't have to chose one) and he loves it!! It's a great deer gun and a good close range elk gun. I have limited him to close shots because of his inexperience and so far he has killed a deer and elk with that gun. It shoots great and has very little recoil.

That said, he also like to shoot the .270 but it has a bit more recoil. I don't know that would have been the right gun for him for his first year. I bought some managed recoil loads and they are quite a bit more mild on the recoil, probably less than a .243. That would be a good cliber for anyone to grow into!


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

gwht67,

What does your grandson plan to hunt with the rifle? That could play a part in deciding what gun is best.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

As mentioned before .243 or 7mm-08
I have been eyeing the Ruger American rifle in .243 for my kids, it's lightweight and something they could use for years.


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

.308 is way too big for most 12 year old kids. My first deer rifle was a .257 roberts. I still love the gun, and its worked out pretty good on coyotes, but i've moved up to a 7 mm rem mag for big game. The .257 Roberts is a great gun but the ammo is hard to find and it is expensive therefore I would say get him a .270, the .270 doesnt kick very much and the ammo is alot easier to find than .257 Roberts. The .270 is a gun he will probably use his whole life, if you got him a .243 im sure he will be wanting something with more power by the time he is 15 so that only gives you 3 years until its time to upgrade.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

90redryder said:


> .*308 is way too big for most 12 year old kids.* My first deer rifle was a .257 roberts. I still love the gun, and its worked out pretty good on coyotes, but i've moved up to a 7 mm rem mag for big game. The .257 Roberts is a great gun but the ammo is hard to find and it is expensive therefore *I would say get him a .270, the .270 doesnt kick very much *and the ammo is alot easier to find than .257 Roberts. The .270 is a gun he will probably use his whole life, if you got him a .243 im sure he will be wanting something with more power by the time he is 15 so that only gives you 3 years until its time to upgrade.


Is there really that much recoil difference between a .308 and a .270? I wouldn't think so but I have only shot a .270 and never a .308 so I can't say for sure. I can't see how a 150 grain .308 would kick that much harder than a 150 or even 130 grain .270 though. Just my $.02.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I wasn't going to say anything for the sake of avoiding being argumentative, but I will say that there is no way that a .308 is way too big and a .270 doesn't kick very much. I have shot thousands of rounds from both cartridges and would be willing to say that in the guns I have handled that the .270 has a bit more felt recoil. Maybe he thought we were talking about the 308 Norma Magnum? As far as the .308 Winchester, I have started both my girls on the 308 and had no problems. That being said, the 270 is a pretty good choice as well especially if handloads can be lightened for the smaller children. The listed recoil energy for the .308 with 150grn bullets is 15.8 while the .270 win with a 130 is listed at 16.5 on the recoil chart. Go to a heavier bullets and both cartridges raise from these numbers.-----------SS


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I can tell you I started my daughter at 9 with her .308 with 125gr hand loads going not much over 2000fps. Guaranteed most anybody can handle that recoil. Once she got used to the gun I slowley increased the loads until we got to where she shoots that same 125gr bullet at 2600 fps. If you ask her now at 12 she will tell you there is no difference between the loads she shot at 9 and the loads she shoots now. The key is start with reduced loads and go up from there over time.

Also, now that she can handle the gun with confidence, I have no problem loading 150gr for deer or even 180gr for elk. When she has an animal in the scope, I'm willing to bet she wont even notice the recoil difference of the 180gr bullet over her 125gr.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

If you do any reloading or want to get into it, I'd recommend a 260 remington or a 7mm-08. One is a 308 necked down to 6.5mm and the other is necked down to 7mm. Both with kill any game in Utah and shouldn't be to much to handle. Personally I like the 260 remington better, but if you don't reload just go with the 308. Bullets are easy to find and can be purchased fairly cheap.


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

It must have something to do with the specific loads and rifles I used when I was that age, I remember at age 12 being scared of my uncles .308 but I was just fine using my other uncles .270 but I am not sure what ammo I was using either. I just looked up the ballistics and the .270 actually puts out more energy with a 150 gr bullet than a .308 does with the same bullet so you guys are correct these are too similar of rifles to notice much difference with a 150 grain bullet.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Double the weight of a bullet, you double the energy. Double the velocity of a bullet and you get 4x the energy. Obviously we cant double the velocity, but increases in velocity of bullet A vs bullet B does increase energy at a quicker rate. So there is a point where going heavier might not give the energy a lighter faster bullet has.

All of this of course also needs to take into account terminal ballistics, a 150grn .308 bullet will be much deadlier and better bullet than a 90grn varminter out of the .270 on big game.

Ah the fun you can have with ballistics calculators.


-DallanC


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I fondled those two Savages on sale at Cabela's over the weekend and I could not recommend those as a first or last rifle to anyone, it would be wise to step up the 111 I think it was and get the accutrigger.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Pretty cheaply made aren't they. Very much so an entry level gun.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I think for my boy next year, I'm going to get a normal Remington M700 and just have the stock cut down with a nice recoil pad put on it. When he gets older we'll replace the stock with a full size one.


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

DallanC said:


> I think for my boy next year, I'm going to get a normal Remington M700 and just have the stock cut down with a nice recoil pad put on it. When he gets older we'll replace the stock with a full size one.
> 
> -DallanC


This is the best advice in my opinion. I would recommend taking this approach with both rifle and caliber. The Remington 700 is a great option because stocks are readily available making the transition from a shortened youth size rifle to a full-size very quick and painless. This is also the reason I recommend a larger caliber with reduced loads when possible. This will give a youngan options when they grow up and want to hunt a variety of game at different ranges. I personally set up my kids with a 308, but the same method can be used with the 270, 30-06, or any other of the medium range calibers. The biggest flaw in this thinking is that if the kids is like it's dad, they will want a new gun anyway!!!--------SS


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Yea... 308 is fine for a 1 gun battery. But IMO as a gun owner, its alot more fun to own a .243 AND a .30-06. Each has its place. I'd love to start my boy on a 6.5x55 sweed or .260 rem, great for deer and when he gets older then get him a elk gun.

Of course the optimal solution is a .22-250, .243, .30-06, .444 Marlin and maybe a .338 thrown in for kicks to cover the spectrum 


-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Last year I bought my 12 year old son a 257 Roberts in Win Featherweight. Great gun/caliber coupled with 120gr Nosler Partitions it is deadly. My 2 cents-- stay away from the new light weight guns with synthetic stocks. They are too light, IMO, and kick harder than a decent wood stock, slightly heavier gun. Put a decent pad on it and away you go. 

I asked him what he is going to hunt elk and deer with this year and he said he wants to use my Sako 280. They only stay young for so long......


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I think for my boy next year, I'm going to get a normal Remington M700 and just have the stock cut down with a nice recoil pad put on it. When he gets older we'll replace the stock with a full size one.
> 
> -DallanC


Not a bad idea, but wouldn't it be easier to just buy the youth size to begin with and later get the full size stock? Here you can see they do make the compact in pretty much all standard calibers, at least in the SPS model of the 700, but finding a retailer that actually carries them may be a different story. http://remington.com/products/firearms/ ... mpact.aspx


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

Packout said:


> Last year I bought my 12 year old son a 257 Roberts in Win Featherweight. Great gun/caliber coupled with 120gr Nosler Partitions it is deadly. My 2 cents-- stay away from the new light weight guns with synthetic stocks. They are too light, IMO, and kick harder than a decent wood stock, slightly heavier gun. Put a decent pad on it and away you go.
> 
> I asked him what he is going to hunt elk and deer with this year and he said he wants to use my Sako 280. They only stay young for so long......


Its not very often that I run into someone else who has a .257 roberts, BTW I agree its a great rifle.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Huge29 said:


> Not a bad idea, but wouldn't it be easier to just buy the youth size to begin with and later get the full size stock? Here you can see they do make the compact in pretty much all standard calibers, at least in the SPS model of the 700, but finding a retailer that actually carries them may be a different story. http://remington.com/products/firearms/ ... mpact.aspx


Generally: Yes.

However in my case my boy is left handed and youth rifle offerings for lefties are quite limited. I have several rare left handed Remington M700 rifles, but they are worth so much now I dont think I'll give them to him as a hunting rifle. Last I looked they are worth 3x-4x what I bought them for, enough I'd rather sell them to pay for a semester of collage than let them get banged up in the oak brush (hardcore benchrest shooters buy lefty M700s and build long range shooting rigs that they feed 1 shot at a time out of. Being a left handed action its easier to load for a righty on the bench... its making them, expecially SA's hard to find! jerks!).

I will keep my eye open for a nice used rifle, get the stock cut down and go from there.

-DallanC


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Check out the LOP on this:

[attachment=0:1hb8l652]Ruger Scout Rifle.jpg[/attachment:1hb8l652]

Catalog Number: M77-LGS | Model Number: 6814 | Caliber: 308 Win

Stock: Black Laminate Capacity: 10 
Material: Alloy Steel Finish: Matte Black 
Front Sight: Post Rear Sight: Adjustable 
Barrel Length: 16.50" Overall Length: 38.00" - 39.50" 
Weight: 7.00 lbs. Length of Pull 12.75" - 14.25" Twist: 1:10" RH Grooves: 6 
Option: Left-Handed Suggested Retail: $999.00

Copyright © 2012 by Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.

It is ugly though. I believe there are some around. The suggested retail and wholesale cost are the same as the right handed model.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Nice gun but wow :shock: there are plenty of other guns you can get for 1/4 the cost.


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