# .22 for grouse



## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

Anyone know why we have to use shotguns for grouse? I hunt some pretty steep/thick country for them. They are gone in a second. Its not much for wing shooting. Besides, I hate eating game that has been filled with shot. It would be better just to pop them with a .22 and be done. Colorado allows rifles for them why shouldn't Utah?


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Tradition mostly. There's a safety argument, but it's weak.


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't think I could hit a grouse on the wing with a .22.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I would say that over half of the grouse that are killed are killed on the ground or sitting in a tree. I would also bet that there are more grouse killed with a high power rifle by shooting their heads off than most people really think. I would much rather pop one in the head with a .22 than pick BB's out of the meat, also most of the grouse that I shoot with a shotgun are missing their heads when I retrieve them.


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

Exactly Critter.

Bret, A lot of grouse habitat doesn't lend itself to wing shooting even with a shotgun. They are in the tops of trees / steep slopes / thick brush. They are shot with a shotgun where they sit. This is legal. Might as well use a .22. I wish this rule was reconsidered.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

There was a thread about this just a couple days ago: try searching it.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Yes- this was discussed-

If it comes up for a vote from the DWR- I vote no. They are a game bird- show them some respect. If it's food you are worried about- Smiths is a lot cheaper, Shooting 22's into the air really isn't the safest way to hunt- didn't your mom tell you that you could put somebodys eye out hunting grouse like that ?


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

I think there are two conflicting traditions in Utah, 1) it is illegal to shoot them with anything but a shotgun, and 2) people shoot their heads of with their deer gun for camp meet.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

massmanute said:


> I think there are two conflicting traditions in Utah, 1) it is illegal to shoot them with anything but a shotgun, and 2) people shoot their heads of with their deer gun for camp meet.


I thought you could shoot them with "archery tackle" as well as a shotgun and a handgun


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

outdoorser said:


> I thought you could shoot them with "archery tackle" as well as a shotgun and a handgun


I think you are probably correct.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

outdoorser said:


> I thought you could shoot them with "archery tackle" as well as a shotgun and a handgun


You are right but you need to remember that if you use a handgun it has to be loaded with a shot shell and not a standard bullet for upland game.

I have also found that the store bought shot shells for handguns is next to worthless for grouse. They work great for mice and snakes but forget the birds unless you are using a standard .410 shell out of a Judge or in a Thompson Center pistol chambered for the .410 shotgun shell.


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## Damiani (May 23, 2013)

God help us


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Critter said:


> You are right but you need to remember that if you use a handgun it has to be loaded with a shot shell and not a standard bullet for upland game.
> 
> I have also found that the store bought shot shells for handguns is next to worthless for grouse. They work great for mice and snakes but forget the birds unless you are using a standard .410 shell out of a Judge or in a Thompson Center pistol chambered for the .410 shotgun shell.





> Ammunition for shotguns and handguns must be one-half ounce or more of shot that ranges in size from no. 2 through no. 8.


Most of the "shot shells" for handguns don't even come close to having enough shot to fulfill the 1/2 ounce requirement.



> Detail	3790	9mm Luger	1450	#12	*53* 10
> Detail	3738	38 Spl/357 Mag**	1000	#9	*100* 10
> Detail	3740	40 S&W*	1250	#9	*88* 10
> Detail	3744	44 Spl/Mag**	1000	#9	*140* 10
> ...


The bold numbers are the listed weight of the shot in CCI handgun "shot shells", in grains. In order to have the 1/2 ounce weight you would need 219 grains of shot. They all have shot sizes that are smaller than 8. They won't meet the criteria.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

In Idaho where it legal, I used to pack a .22 pistol loaded with .22 CB caps when deer hunting to take some always abundant grouse. The 29 gr. low velocity slug from a .22 CB cap creates a lot less meat damage than even most birds taken with my .410 shotgun I use here in Utah. I usually aim for the neck where a high shot is a head shot and a low shot still spares the breast meat. A shot either right or left is a clean miss.

If .22 for grouse was legal here in Utah I'd leave my shotgun home.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Damiani, I understand that you are one who only wants to wingshoot them with a shotgun, which is admirable. However, I kinda enjoy shooting them with a judo point with my bow because they are one of the most delicious things to eat. Others shouldn't be belittled for shooting them any legal way. They are delicious eating, and while some hunt for the pure sport of it, I tend to shoot them solely because I like to eat them and if I kill them with a head shot, don't lose any meat.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Considering the criteria of archery equipment.. There is no minimum poundage or types of arrows or broad heads... Seriously wrist rockets and slingshots would be effective methods of take on Grouse. Why not include these methods of take for grouse?


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Nambaster said:


> Considering the criteria of archery equipment.. There is no minimum poundage or types of arrows or broad heads... Seriously wrist rockets and slingshots would be effective methods of take on Grouse. Why not include these methods of take for grouse?


Sounds good to me, and probably more sporting for the grouse as well!


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Are slingshots considered to be archery gear? We might be on to a loop hole here.....


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Killed one with a rock once. Took many attempts, and I can't remember the caliber of the rock. Probably 50mm.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah paddler, My bro once did that to a magpie. One throw of a baseball sized rock, and WHAM!! that sucker never moved again


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

outdoorser said:


> Yeah paddler, My bro once did that to a magpie. One throw of a baseball sized rock, and WHAM!! that sucker never moved again


Not that I would eat magpie.... but I bet all the meat was perfectly fine too!!!!


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> Are slingshots considered to be archery gear?


Nope. Nice try.


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

I always thought the common weapon for them chikin's was a fist-sized rock or a whirly-stick!??


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Ah, but now the real question is: Would a wristrocket with a lead ball weighing in excess of 1/2 ounce be legal?


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## bigred (Mar 5, 2012)

I started a thread about this very thing and was attacked by some elitists. Here's some logic to throw in; either it's safe to shoot a rifle in the woods or it's not, if it is not safe then big game hunters need to be stopped, if it is safe then the argument against .22s for grouse is idiocy. As far as ethics and respecting the game animal, using a method that will cleanly kill an animal and avoid crippling them is very ethical, shooting them on the wing introduces more possibility of a cripple, in other words it's less ethical than shooting them on the ground with a .22. Ok elitist jerks you can fume now. By the way, thegutpile.net has more down to earth, less know it all people than here.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

bigred said:


> I started a thread about this very thing and was attacked by some elitists. Here's some logic to throw in; either it's safe to shoot a rifle in the woods or it's not, if it is not safe then big game hunters need to be stopped, if it is safe then the argument against .22s for grouse is idiocy. As far as ethics and respecting the game animal, using a method that will cleanly kill an animal and avoid crippling them is very ethical, shooting them on the wing introduces more possibility of a cripple, in other words it's less ethical than shooting them on the ground with a .22. Ok elitist jerks you can fume now. By the way, thegutpile.net has more down to earth, less know it all people than here.


Shooting them on the wing is a fair chase argument.

And the safety part is not that rifles are not safe in the woods, but rather elevated rifle shots are not safe. Shooting a grouse on the ground safety wise, is very different from shooting one in a tree.

As for the ethics of clean kills, that is why we practice, to be accurate. If it were just killing grouse, then yeah, fastest method. The same argument gets made about archers, but in the context of fair chase, and sportsmanship, it is a different argument.

I'm no purist, I have not had a dog for years, and the last dozen grouse I have killed were with a .22, or a bow.


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

*Purists*

Then you have the knuckleheads that insist on spooking or waiting for a deer or elk to get out of their bed to get an "ethical" shot", when the critter is already broadside laying down?


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Elitest ?????? Not sure this equates to " dry fly only" nymphers are low lifes- debates


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think a rock launched with a wrist rocket should be legal. I don't think a .22 should be. Jmho 

I would dare say there are almost as many grouse that die by whirly stick and hand throw rock than are shot by shot guns.


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

My grandpa knocked one out of the air with the end of his lariat while riding his horse. I've killed several with rocks. I wasn't carrying a weapon and these events happened years ago. 

Recently I did shoot one with the judge .410 but don't count on any accuracy with that setup, rock throwing is more accurate. With the unavailability of .22 shells this may be a mute discussion for most.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I got a rabbit on the run with a rock once. I'm glad for that, if I'da missed the rock mighta ricocheted and hurt someone.

nevermind


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