# KSL reviewing their firearm classifieds policy



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Take the survey, hopefully they keep it going 
https://ksl.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_cIvAeOWbZyDByqU


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I took the survey. I don't think many people are using the website to circumvent the laws


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I just took the survey.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

I took the survey too......

Checking on the latest guns for sale on KSL is always one of my daily stops. Always interesting to me to see what guns are for sale and what the asking price is. Some are bargains while others are laughably over priced. I dunno, but I'll bet the gun classifieds on KSL.com has one of the highest hit rates on the site.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

True. But when a felon buys a gun there and kills a bunch of people at the mall, KSL will get sued. That is exactly why Ebay quit doing gun sales a few years ago.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Done. I look at the site 2-3 times a day. Always interesting. Good place to check prices and values. If it were to go I'd be sad. Keeps local gun dealer shops on their toes.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ahhhh crud this is just a precursor to them getting rid of it. I doubt seriously they plan to keep it. All they have to do now is say the majority of people voted against it regardless of the actual outcome. They just made it public so they have an excuse once they get rid of it.


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

Probably right on that. I'm sure if it goes off, someone local will start a new listing sight. I doubt many felons are going to buy off the website. I would think they buy off a guy in a back alley somewhere.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

If they do get rid of the guns, it will be interesting to see what happens to KUTVs classifieds.......


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

KSL is an effective way for the felon to meet a guy in a back alley somewhere.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I filled it out.

Those type lawsuits are BS, KSL is in no way breaking the law, and neither is the vast majority of the users. I highly encourged them to keep the firearms section.

I also told them that if they stopped it, I would stop coming to their site entirely, as well as stop watching thier channel, and I will, I am **** tired of kissing every liberal *** out there.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

I just took the survey, thanks for posting it!

I agree with you 110% there Mojo! A lot of sellers I see on the KSL classifieds go the extra mile and require ID, or even CFP only, and I think that's great. It's a responsible move. Not just for the sake of the actual transaction, but it also sends a message that you won't sell to just anyone. 

I would much rather they devote more time and energy towards getting rid of the scams running rampant on their site than worrying about legitimate firearms purchases.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

All you other guys looking at guns on KSL.com are probably the reason I missed out on that early Winchester 94 in a .38-55 for $600 a month or so ago. By the time I looked up the serial number and got back to the ad it had already been sold.....been online for less than an hour. Or that other old original Winchester 94 Saddle Ring Carbine that sold for $525, $75 less than the 1980's model the guy was also selling because it had a little more wear on it. You guys are no doubt the reason I couldn't catch a break on either one of these......


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

I wonder - I do not know - but yet it bothers me that the last two times I was in the Cabelas Gun Library the Cabela staff buyers were complaining about KSL. Cabelas would love to see KSL firearms section crumple.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Seems fitting to have a survey on their Vehicle section. Same issues I'm sure. :roll:


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

jungle said:


> I wonder - I do not know - but yet it bothers me that the last two times I was in the Cabelas Gun Library the Cabela staff buyers were complaining about KSL. Cabelas would love to see KSL firearms section crumple.


Strange you should mention that. I happened to notice that the guy that was always heading up the Cabela's Gun Library is now working at Gunnie's. I see Gunnie's put ads on KSL quite a bit.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

It seems like it is the new way to advertise for most of the shops, specially the garage based gun shops.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

OK. Just a little annoying thing about my fellow 2nd Amendment supporters. When I see posts about "keep this classified section in protecting out 2nd Amendment Rights" I get a bit annoyed. Especially on a privately held website like KSL that is kind enough to allow any kind of classifieds section, let alone one for selling guns, gets slammed because people feel it their constitutional right to advertise, for free, their guns on someone else's advertising space. This isn't about the 2nd Amendment, or any liberal conspiracy, or any great government attempt to take away your guns. This just a private company looking to cover their own tail from a law suit. If people don't like it, then start up your own gun trading website and take on the liability that goes with it. Anyway, no one on this site has really gone there - but seeing some of the posts on KSL are really annoying to me. If its such a big freaking deal, the NRA ought to run their own classified section.

And before you blast me for this, know that I am a big 2nd Amendment guy, and have used KSL to buy and sell firearms in the past. While I enjoy the service they provide, I don't consider it any kind of entitlement or constitutional, right to me, for what they provide.


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## stimmie78 (Dec 8, 2007)

If KSL were to ditch the firearms section to protect from lawsuits, shouldn't they ditch the autos section too? People die/get injured in auto accidents too. And that big screen advertised on there has potential to fall and kill a toddler. And that baseball bat really could do some damage to a skull.

DesNews and SLTrib should have to get rid of their classifieds too. Someone may sue them too..


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

If I'm KSL and I see what happened in the law suit over the Trolly Square shooting, then I dump the section. Not saying I agree with that, just saying it is what is driving this thing. 

Heck, maybe its a good business opportunity to open up a gun trading site. Charge a fee to post ads, provide a way to help with background checks, or get a percentage of the sale price, etc..... Might not be a bad idea.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Gary-where are you seeing these posts? KSL has not allowed comments for months...


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Gary-where are you seeing these posts? KSL has not allowed comments for months...


I was wondering the same thing Huge!!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

To the point of felons circumventing laws, I have seen at least once on here where a person has asked for advice about selling on KSL as potential buyers had offered full price as long as their was no documentation...wisely the seller held off, but it may be ignorant to think that people would not at least try to get them on there. Such buyers may just be the paranoid guy living in the Idaho mtns, but I certainly would not ever sell to anyone under those circumstances even though that would be perfectly legal.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

KSL is not responsible to enforce the laws or to provide for public safety. I am sure restricted persons have purchased firearms through similar online outlets,although the topic of restricted persons could be a topic of its own. When corporations allow the marketplace to be manipulated through fear of lawsuits from special interest groups like the gun control lobby we all lose basic liberties. It is the gradual erosion of these liberties that concerns me. I personally would like to see KSL and other corporations take a stand and say it is well within our right under the first amendment to provide a venue for our customers to buy and sell goods including firearms as is their right under the second amendment. As I watch the US Govt move more and more toward a totalitarian form of govt I look for means of obtaining my firearms through venues that prevents the govt from knowing which firearms I have bought or sold. It is a fundamental responsibility of a free press to help protect all constitutional freedoms in my opinion. When I sell a firearm I make the person sign a bill of sale so that in the unlikely event the firearm is used in a crime I can show I was no longer the owner of said firearm.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

They didn't leave comments - like you said - those haven't been allowed for months. People made up ads in the rifles, handguns, shotguns and big game rifles section.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... =3&search=
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... d=&search=
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... =4&search=
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... =1&search=


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

While I respect KSL's right to do as it see's fit, it would be a sad day to loose that venue.

I do disagree with Garyfish though. The more that something is pushed back in the closet in fear, the higher the probability that it will became a thing of the past. I personally see no difference between guns verus cars, ATVs, UTVs, snowmobles, and any other device that might be used to hurt someone and cause injury because of carelessness. So if I sale a car to a guy who does not have a drivers license and that guy hurts someone, is KSL going to get sued because it was advertised on KSL?


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Al Hansen said:


> Seems fitting to have a survey on their Vehicle section. Same issues I'm sure. :roll:


My point exactly.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Al Hansen said:


> [quote="Al Hansen":3lg51a93]Seems fitting to have a survey on their Vehicle section. Same issues I'm sure. :roll:


My point exactly.[/quote:3lg51a93]

That's funny because today, I emailed them and asked what kind, if any, policy that they had or intended to put in place to prevent people who either had no license, or suspended licenses from purchasing a vehicle that could possibility lead to unlawful activity that could harm the law abiding citizens of our society.

I'm not holding my breath waiting on an answer.


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## reaper (Nov 18, 2010)

Garyfish are you sure you are not a Brady or Gunn supporter? With your way of thinking, Could KSL not be held just as liable if the buyer of a 89 cutlass got drunk and plowed through a bunch of kids walking home from school? Could the buyer of a ford F150 not sue KSL for allowing a place to buy a vehicle that allowed him to drive drunk, get a DUI and miss work, should he get reimbursed from KSL, its KSL's fault right??
Shouldn't KSL be just as much at fault under those scenarios as of someone selling a gun legally, then the buyer shooting up a 7-11, killing several people? With your way of thinking the answer has to be YES!!!! In Utah we do not need permission to buy and sell guns, we do not need a sheriffs card or the state patrol to do background checks on us like in other states before allowing a purchase, states Gary that have much much much higher violent crime rates than we have. Liberals and their FEARS have no common sense!!!!!


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## reaper (Nov 18, 2010)

GaryFish said:


> They didn't leave comments - like you said - those haven't been allowed for months. People made up ads in the rifles, handguns, shotguns and big game rifles section.
> http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... =3&search=
> http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... d=&search=
> http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... =4&search=
> http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad ... =1&search=


Really these comments set you on fire? these comments are screaming about the anti gun nazis??? :roll: :roll:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Don't get me wrong here guys. I'm on the same side as you. But seeing that the store that sold the guns to the Trolly Square shooter was successfully sued, I think KSL is a bit leary. The court system is crazy, and when people sue, they go after those with deep pockets. So if a crackhead gets a gun advertised on KSL and kills someone, the victims family will go after anyone they can. 

It sucks and I hate it. But it's reality.

And if KSL decides that as a private company they will no longer allow FREE advertising of guns, that is entirely their deal and in no way infringes on anyone's 2nd amendment rights.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Is that pawn shop deal really relevant? Weren't they charged for not following the laws about age or something? Not to mention that they were the actual seller vs a simple host of ads...


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> And if KSL decides that as a private company they will no longer allow FREE advertising of guns, that is entirely their deal and in no way infringes on anyone's 2nd amendment rights.


Gotta agree with Gary on this, this isn't really a rights issue. They own the soapbox so they get to choose what, when, and who gets to stand on it.

As far as liability, I'm not an attorney, but I wouldn't think KSL has any liability for an illegal gun sale. No more so than if a thief got caught using their classifieds to sell stolen property, which I assume also happens there with some frequency. Where they are not a direct party to a sale illegal or otherwise, I suspect there is plenty of precedent in previous cases that excuses them from liability.

They are doing this to as a PR move to avoid any bad press in the future IMO. They are conducting a cost/benefit type analysis where the cost is measured not in legal liability, but in bad publicity.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I would not put anything past any attorney especially in this economy where they are desperate for any work, but If memory serves the pawn shop case was a little different. It certainly is KSL's right to do whatever they want, hopefully they can work something out...


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

In a civil case, it really amounts to whatever the attorney can convince a jury should happen. And like Kevin said, the publicity of someone committing a crime with a gun purchased through KSL would certainly be repeated over and over, like a basketball player getting removed from a team for having sex.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> the publicity of someone committing a crime with a gun purchased through KSL would certainly be repeated over and over, like a basketball player getting removed from a team for having sex.


I don't get it, never heard of it!


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