# Uphill / Downhill shooting



## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I am interested in hearing the opinions and experiences from others concerning uphill and downhill shooting. The common thinking is when shooting uphill hold a little higher, and when shooting downhill hold a little lower. According to physics that is not the case, and there are some fancy new range finders that will argue that basic thinking as well. Please share your knowledge (or lack thereof).


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Well it really is quite simple. If shooting uphill or downhill you always hold low. How low depends on the ballistics of your projectile, the angle , and the distance to the target along the imaginary horizontal line. 

Some go by a basic rule that the point of impact will be "close" to the same point of impact as if you were shooting along a straight horizontal line between you and the target. This is the invisible right trianlge formed by you and the target. This will get you close but because the effect of gravity this distance is often a little different. There are some forumlas out ther that people used based off the ballistics of the projectile and the effect of gravity. But the only real way is to know for sure is practice, preactice, ptractice.

I learned this when I was 17 on a doe hunt. I was 312 yards (line of sight) from a doe at about a 30 degree angle. Not knowing any better I shot at her like she was 312 yards from me. I was shooting a 7MM mag. Using the rule mentioned above the doe was only 270 yards along the horizontal. Now, I know from practicing and experience, I should have actually been aiming like she was about 230 yards. Difference between 312 and 230 yards was just enough that I shot right over her back. This applies to archery as well.

When I get a new rifle or bow I use the basic right angle rule to get me on the target but then record and adjust for the differences in the bow or firearm.

Hope it helps,


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

always hold low ALWAYS and there are several new rangefinders that make it easy. I would highly recommend the nikon line since I can't stand how convoluted the display in the leupold is.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I could tell you about cut charts and angles all day, but you wouldn't listen to me anyway. :roll:


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## 3D4ME (Sep 24, 2008)

Okay splain me this.
I have yet to have someone that can explain this to me. When I ask them, they shrug their shoulders and don't know.

For example. What difference does it make how fast your arrow is traveling? There are two guys shooting their bows. One guy is shooting 320 fps, the other is a mere 260 fps.
They both have the same shot line of sight is 55 yrds. horizontal is 45 yrds. So they both split their pins and shoot for 45 yrds. Sure there pins have different gaps, arrow has different trajectory but they still aim for 45 yrds. right?

So, why would a range finder for a bow need to know the arrow speed in order to give you the correct yardage to aim? It's 45 yrds shoot it for 45 yrds!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

for a 45 yard shot it probably wont matter both of your bows are sighted in for 45 yards. one will have a higher arch then the other but they will both hit dead on at 45 yards. So Lets extend the distance further and you might have to account for the drag of your arrow?

Maybe the other reason it takes the speed of the arrow into consideration is so it can tell you how much you need to hold over the target to hit it? I Don't know just trying to answer your question! *OOO* 

I think if a range finder is trying to ask those kind of questions it is to complicated for my simple little mind. I prefer simple point and shoot range finders like the nikon <<--O/


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## Dekashika (Oct 23, 2007)

> always hold low ALWAYS and there are several new rangefinders that make it easy. I would highly recommend the nikon line since *I can't stand how convoluted the display in the leupold is.*




Crap, I just bought that leupold, but have not got to handle it yet. Is it that bad?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

north slope said:


> I could tell you about cut charts and angles all day, but you wouldn't listen to me anyway. :roll:


"We don't need no stinking charts and angles man!" :mrgreen:

I have a pair of eyes and a brain. that's all I need to make an uphill or downhill shot. But, having said that I will admit it takes a little different "hold" to make it happen even with traditional equipment. Another thing a lot of archers forget is the proper way to position your body for taking shots at extreme angles. Since the bow is shot using the upper muscles in the back and arms you need to keep that part of your body on the same level. When moving ones body to make a shot at an extreme angle the archer needs to articulate at the hips and not the shoulders or spine. Bending at the hips will help keep everything up top nice and level. Very important, especially when shooting from a treestand.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

3D4ME said:


> Okay splain me this.
> I have yet to have someone that can explain this to me. When I ask them, they shrug their shoulders and don't know.
> 
> For example. What difference does it make how fast your arrow is traveling? There are two guys shooting their bows. One guy is shooting 320 fps, the other is a mere 260 fps.
> ...


It has to do with the tragectory of the arrow. An arrow that travels at a higher rate of speed shoots flatter, and of course slower means more arc. However they both fall to earth at the same rate of speed. This is why the range finder will need to know the fps as the angle will slightly change for speed. 20 yards and closer will probably be hardly any difference at all.

Tex, You are correct, proper body form is important, especially when shooting down out of a treestand.

NS, cutsheets? are you serious, I am hunting not sitting at a desk when I need that info. Cut sheets wont cut it.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

3D you are correct speed won't make a noticeable difference until you are out to 80+ yards where a + or - a yard may hurt. I have done several test and the difference between 250 and 350 is less than a yard until you get out to 80+. Everybody needs to remember it doesn't matter how fast it is going since a 45 yard pin at 250 FPS will hit the same spot as a 45 yard pin shooting 400 FPS

Dekashika. the one I looked through the first time I couldn't see where it told me the yardage. I finally found it in the lower left corner in about 1/8 inch high numbers, I couldn't believe it. The nikon gives you the standard center big number display. I hope you don't find it as bad as I did.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

Dekashika said:


> > always hold low ALWAYS and there are several new rangefinders that make it easy. I would highly recommend the nikon line since *I can't stand how convoluted the display in the leupold is.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it's not that bad...I've got it and I like it...what model do you have?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

stablebuck said:


> Dekashika said:
> 
> 
> > > always hold low ALWAYS and there are several new rangefinders that make it easy. I would highly recommend the nikon line since *I can't stand how convoluted the display in the leupold is.*
> ...


If you just picked it up from cabelas then take it back and get the nikon. A friend of mine got the leupold first and we had nothing but problems with it. Half the time it would'nt even range the target unless you shook it a couple of times or turned it sideways. He took it back and they gave him the Nikon instead. We all shoot the nikons now and they are simple point and shoot.


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## MEEN (Jan 27, 2009)

> However they both fall to earth at the same rate of speed. This is why the range finder will need to know the fps as the angle will slightly change for speed. 20 yards and closer will probably be hardly any difference at all.


bwhntr nailed it on the head. It all has to do with acceleration (gravity). You can break the trajectory up into components (x and y components). Any force acting in the x direction is negligible because its so small and the only thing acting in the y direction is gravity (on a horizontal). If there was no gravity your arrow would never fall.

However, when you shoot on an angle it is different. Your arrow now has some initial accelation in the positive y direction (uphill) which counteracts gravity (acceleration in the negative y direction). In essence you can think of your arrow as not falling as fast because of the angle.


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## Dekashika (Oct 23, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> stablebuck said:
> 
> 
> > Dekashika said:
> ...


I got the Leupold RX-IV Laser finder with True Ballistic Range(come to think about it, the name alone seems complicated :? )

Maybe I will see if they will exchange it for the Nikon. I hope I can find my receipt, or is Cabelas one of those places that do not hassle you for things like that?


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

I like it just fine...


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## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

to put it as simple as possible a bullet or arrow is not effected by gravity as much. gravity acts to push a bullet or arrow down on a level shot the same way as a stiff 90 degree wind acts on a bullet or arrow to move it left or right. its is more like a 45 degree wind when you shoot on an angle therefore gravity can't act on it as much because there is less area to push down on......im sure that was as clear as mud.


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## MEEN (Jan 27, 2009)

shootemup said:


> to put it as simple as possible a bullet or arrow is not effected by gravity as much. gravity acts to push a bullet or arrow down on a level shot the same way as a stiff 90 degree wind acts on a bullet or arrow to move it left or right. its is more like a 45 degree wind when you shoot on an angle therefore gravity can't act on it as much because there is less area to push down on......im sure that was as clear as mud.


Actually there is the same amount of area. Gravity does not depend on area, the magnitude is always 9.81 m/s^2. However the gravity now has an X and Y componenent instead of just a Y component because of the angle.


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## alexh (Jul 3, 2009)

Try shooting at a big 4 point at 7 feet ahhhhhh! I missed that shot twice, years apart. It is just so hard to aim at the bottom of the chest or below with your top pin.
Now I just aim without sights up close. Uphill, down hill, aim low.
If you practice, you should know what pin to use, when someone is looking through a range finder, I'm killing. When shooting a Pistol from the hip, aim high.
Don't give me a 600 yard shot way downhill two days in a row, In fact don't even give me that shot one time now, he he. Happy Hunting.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

7 feet and holding low? I think I'd be holding at about 60 yards, but that's a different thread altogether. :wink:


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> 7 feet and holding low? I think I'd be holding at about 60 yards, but that's a different thread altogether. :wink:


Yes lets not get into parallax. :shock:


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## inbowrange (Sep 11, 2007)

SO do you hold low or high on up hill and down hill shots?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

inbowrange said:


> SO do you hold low or high on up hill and down hill shots?


Typically hold low on both. How much is going to depend on your setup, distance, and angle. You need to practice the shots to know how much.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

yeah otherwise you get your goldtip stuck in a 3d bighorn ram's horn and it takes 4 people to pull it out...


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