# Arrow setup help



## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

So I've come to a bit of a predicament when it comes to setting up my arrows for this coming season. I'm a short dude with short arms and my draw length is only 25.5 to 26 inches. I have my bow cranked all the way down and it has a draw weight of 63 lbs which is less than I anticipated when I first purchased it. I currently am running 450 grain total weight FMJ's at a 340 spine, but they are wicked slow and I can't get them to group consistently beyond 40. I won't be taking any shots on animals past 50, but I'm looking to change my setup that shoots better at distance and possibly has a little more speed.

I'm thinking of going lighter and with a 4mm arrow with a titanium half-out to increase my FOC a bit while reducing my overall arrow weight. Anyone shoot a similar set up or have any tricks for a short draw length? Also, what spine should I be looking at, definitely a 400 but should I go higher? Penetration is my biggest concern, but I don't want to be lobbing the spears I currently shoot at less than 230 fps anymore.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I can't say anything about the shorter draw length(30" here), so take this with a grain of salt, but you might be over-spined with the 340s, especially if you're not grouping well at distances past 40 yards. 

As far as arrow weight, I shot FMJs for several years and switched to shooting the Victory VAP TKO last year with a stainless outsert up front. Reduced my overall arrow weight by a decent margin, and increased my speed. Let us know what you settle on and how it works out for you.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

Ya I'm almost positive I'm over-spined, I'll definitely update once I'm shooting the new builds.


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## johnrr65 (Nov 7, 2019)

Kwalk3 said:


> I can't say anything about the shorter draw length(30" here), so take this with a grain of salt, but you might be over-spined with the 340s, especially if you're not grouping well at distances past 40 yards.
> 
> As far as arrow weight, I shot FMJs for several years and switched to shooting the Victory VAP TKO last year with a stainless outsert up front. Reduced my overall arrow weight by a decent margin, and increased my speed. Let us know what you settle on and how it works out for you.


+1


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Honestly I think you have plenty of bow already and people worry about speed too much. A 450 grain arrow at 230 fps is plenty capable for taking all North American game at your self imposed limit of 50 yards or less. If you really need more speed you could always upgrade to a bow with a higher IBO speed or even get some 80 pound limbs. I'm getting 268 fps out of my Halon 6 shooting 455 grain arrows with a 67 pound draw and 27 inch draw length. My same setup with your draw length would get you in the neighborhood of 250 to 260 fps.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

As far as the consistency past 40 yards, as has already been mentioned 340 may be a little stiff out of your setup. A move to 400 would probably be good. More weight out front on the 340s would also soften that spine, but if you really want more speed then more weight isn't what you want I suppose.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

How long are your arrows? What weight tips? Do they have any extra weight in front to increase FOC? Also, what kind of bow are you shooting (aggressive cam, single cam?)

I ask all these things because they can influence the spine of arrow you should select. If your arrows are around 28" long or you have a lot of weight in the front of your arrow, you may not be that far off on your spine. 

By the way, I second what CCG said--a 450 gr. arrow going 230 fps is still a force to be reckoned with, especially if penetration is a priority over trajectory (which I think is wise).


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

T-dubs-42 said:


> So I've come to a bit of a predicament when it comes to setting up my arrows for this coming season. I'm a short dude with short arms and my draw length is only 25.5 to 26 inches. I have my bow cranked all the way down and it has a draw weight of 63 lbs which is less than I anticipated when I first purchased it. I currently am running 450 grain total weight FMJ's at a 340 spine, but they are wicked slow and I can't get them to group consistently beyond 40. I won't be taking any shots on animals past 50, but I'm looking to change my setup that shoots better at distance and possibly has a little more speed.
> 
> I'm thinking of going lighter and with a 4mm arrow with a titanium half-out to increase my FOC a bit while reducing my overall arrow weight. Anyone shoot a similar set up or have any tricks for a short draw length? Also, what spine should I be looking at, definitely a 400 but should I go higher? Penetration is my biggest concern, but I don't want to be lobbing the spears I currently shoot at less than 230 fps anymore.


What are the specifics of your arrow and bow? I'll throw the numbers into my archery program... because I'm a gear numbers nerd


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I didn't think is was possible to be over spined. How would that effect accuracy?


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

I threw some estimated numbers in just for fun and here's what I put in and found:

draw weight 63 lbs
draw length 25.75
brace height 6.5
axle to axle 32
arrow length raw shaft 25.5
arrow weight 450gr with tip weight of 100gr
arrow speed 230fps

it says your optimal spine is 0.353

How does your tuning look through paper?


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

middlefork said:


> I didn't think is was possible to be over spined. How would that effect accuracy?


I know over spining can screw with the tuning. If overly stiff, an arrow will give a nock right tear. I don't know how it affects accuracy down range.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

middlefork said:


> I didn't think is was possible to be over spined. How would that effect accuracy?


if i recall it induces a nock right tear for a right hander. too weak of a spine you'll lose energy and accuracy in the flex. too stiff and you get no predictable flex, especially if you don't spine index the shaft/nock.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

I run a 2018 bear cruzer. IBO is 310. It's a moderate double cam. 63 lbs draw, 25.5 draw length not including d-loop. Arrows are 24.5 in raw shaft, shooting 125 grain G5 striker V2's, ran 4 blazer mini's in a straight set up which is going to be the first thing I change. I asked for a 2 degree right offset at wilde arrow twice but they never did it, should've just bought my own jig. Also have a 4 inch wrap. No added weight up front. Essentially my arrows are really short and too stiff.

The strangest thing about my paper tune was that it was nock left and at 30 plus yards all my arrows were hitting slightly point, right nock left. I adjusted my rest a few times to remedy it but I never quite got what I wanted. my vanes never steered well either. 

The set-up I have in my head that I want to try to get my best speed, accuracy, and penetration is 4mm carbon injexions cut at 25 inches, 400 spine, with the 4mm titanium half-out that easton makes (55 grains). 100 grain striker or 100 grain annihilator. I would do blazer x2's or mini's again, still with 4 vanes and this time in a right helical. total weight would be right around 410 grains with a much better FOC.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

I'll also say I'm not a speed freak by any means. I'm fine if there's a lot of drop in my arrow and if it runs slow. I just need better consistency and I feel like a slight uptick in speed could help with that. Penetration is by far and a way my biggest concern.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

T-dubs-42 said:


> The strangest thing about my paper tune was that it was nock left and at 30 plus yards all my arrows were hitting slightly point, right nock left. I adjusted my rest a few times to remedy it but I never quite got what I wanted. my vanes never steered well either.


are you getting the same tear every time? i dislike telling someone to chase their tail if they aren't consistent in form first. the start of the season is not the time to paper tune for me. i'll shoot for a few weeks before i even check paper. it gives me time to get my form back before i start messing with stuff that likely doesn't need to be fixed.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

APD said:


> are you getting the same tear every time? i dislike telling someone to chase their tail if they aren't consistent in form first. the start of the season is not the time to paper tune for me. i'll shoot for a few weeks before i even check paper. it gives me time to get my form back before i start messing with stuff that likely doesn't need to be fixed.


In regular practice I'd say 2/3 in my group would hit point right, even on my best, tightest groups they'd all be slightly point right. I only paper tuned once and I'm sure there's slight mechanic issues I can improve on


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

consistent grip and anchor point are two that commonly show themselves in the paper.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

APD said:


> consistent grip and anchor point are two that commonly show themselves in the paper.


Ya I definitely struggled to get consistent my first month or so of shooting, always improving my mechanics


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## bowdude (Aug 11, 2019)

I am of the same school as middle fork, over spinning is something to be concerned with if you shoot a long bow or even a recurve, but shooting a compound with a fall away rest and a release aid is not a thing to be concerned about. I have been shooting and building my own arrows for decades and I have never found an issue with an over spined arrow. For what it is worth, I build my arrows for the game I am hunting. i.e. antelope, I want something fast made for long distance. For mule deer and elk, I like something a little heavier. I am interested in accuracy. I shoot a fixed blade cut on contact blade (Muzzy Buzz cuts) so penetration has never an issue. I am shooting 65 lbs out of my hunting rig at a 30 inch draw. My arrow weight is 368 grains and my hunting blade is a muzzy 100 grain buzz cut. The arrow completely passes thru everything. My F.O.C. is 12%. Get yourself a computer program that will allow you to build arrows on line so you can play with different combinations. After you settle on the combination, then purchase the components, build the arrow and go shoot it to see if it will do what you are expecting. It is not that difficult and certainly a lot more satisfying.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

I think it is wise to consider the various tuning elements and form elements that may be affecting your accuracy. I agree that you should punch in some numbers and see what type of arrow you should shoot, so you maximize the tunability of your setup. Good luck!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Did you nock tune or spine index those arrows? If not, that may be causing inconsistent tears from one arrow to the next. The other factor that is much harder to fix is form.

I have a friend (new to archery) that is using that same bow to learn with. His specs are different from yours in that he's a 30" draw at 66lbs. He gets constant nock right tears. When I shoot that bow at his settings, the tears are almost perfect...form.

As far as speed, weight, etc. you should really focus on the kinetic energy and momentum your arrows have. Speed contributes to that of course but it's only one factor in the equation.

Typically a heavier arrow will yield a higher KE even at slower speeds. If you're worried about penetration that's what I'd look for.

Here are some arrow setups I have or have built and their specs. All will effectively kill game with good shot placement. The Vap and FMJ setups are cut to 28" and the Axis are my aforementioned friends cut at 30".


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

T-dubs-42 said:


> I run a 2018 bear cruzer.


That's the problem. You need a flagship bow to shoot good.

KIDDING. The spine seems stiff (I shoot 340 on a much faster bow with 28.5 inch draw), and you may be able to go with lighter broadheads. I love DIY but a proshop might have you setup and running in 30 minutes.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

KineKilla said:


> Did you nock tune or spine index those arrows? If not, that may be causing inconsistent tears from one arrow to the next. The other factor that is much harder to fix is form.
> 
> I have a friend (new to archery) that is using that same bow to learn with. His specs are different from yours in that he's a 30" draw at 66lbs. He gets constant nock right tears. When I shoot that bow at his settings, the tears are almost perfect...form.
> 
> ...


I noticed that most of those setups hover between 7 and 9 grains per pound, is that your recommended starting point?


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

The more reading I do and with everyone's help here two things are clear. A trip to the bow shop is in order to check where my form's at and until that's solid it won't matter too much what arrows I'm shooting. I'm confident I can get the job done with my current setup, but part of the fun of this sport is always improving. I really appreciate everyone's input


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

You're right, I like the heavier arrows for myself. I like to be in the 475-525grain total weight area. Just personal preference.

I'm switching from those VAP arrows listed to the heavier fmj setup this season. I also shoot a Vertix. 

I like heavier arrows because the slower speed spreads my pins out a little more, quiet the bow down quite a bit and reduce felt vibration.

According to the Easton chart you should probably be in the 400 spine range. Maybe 340 if you use their 75gr inserts and 125 tip.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

FWIW I shoot better at 50+ than I do at 40. 40 yards is my most difficult distance.

I like the heavier arrows because they have more KE generally, spread my pins out more and quiet the bow down.


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