# I am sick...



## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

Why do I have to learn all the hard lessons in life??

Long story... but I had a local range put my new (50 rounds through it, but never been in the field) X-bolt Stainless Stalker in .270WSM in their Zero-matic. Yes - stupid of me.

shot the gun, they handed it to me, I cased it and took it home. Take it out of case and look at the butt and there are two rather large chunks chipped out of the previously immaculate composite stock on the lower butt, both sides of the butt. The butt pad was pinched to the point that it split the rubber on both sides as well. I about died and it took me all night to get over it. ok, ... I'm still PISSED. :redface:

What would you do? I plan to go show them the damage today so they can be more aware and careful, but don't expect them to do anything about it. My choice, my risk, i'm sure will be the answer. Never doing that again! I think I'll take stock butt pad off and put a limbsaver on it to cover the uglies. I hate that my pristine rifle now looks like I beat the hell out of it.. and yet it's never been in the field! ughhhh....


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

That is ridiculous. I'd be uber pissed as well!


-DallanC


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## Billy Mumphrey (Sep 5, 2012)

What was the name and location of the range? It won't fix your problem but I'm sure we'd all appreciate knowing where to avoid in the future.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Why do you need a machine rest to zero your gun? If it kicks too much maybe you should look for a nicer caliber.


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## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

Loke said:


> Why do you need a machine rest to zero your gun? If it kicks too much maybe you should look for a nicer caliber.


 I expected this and took the risk of posting it anyway. Has nothing to do with recoil. I shoot it fine. Just a stupid decision all around - appreciate the additional kick in the nuts though!


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Where was this done at? I have had nothing but great interactions with our local range the 2 times I used their zero-matic.


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## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

Right there at our local range 06 hunter! Lions Club. Never would have imagined, but it happened!


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Sorry man. That sucks. Especially on the new rifle. 

I've had the guys at Lee Kay use their machine on several rifles over the years and they have always been extremely careful not to scratch or harm the stock in any way. I don't have any composites though - that could make a difference. 

Sorry though. That sucks.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

I understand it sucks but stuff happens! I would hold off judgement until you see what they are willing to do. I'm sure they won't just let it slide..


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I was thinking about using that 0 omatic and now I am pretty happy that I did not use it. 270 WSM is a pretty cool round. To be honest with composite stocks I really don't worry about ding so or dents or scratches in them. At the same time I really don't worry about the character on my woodstocks either. 

I had a guy buy a $44,000 truck from me and the first thing that he did with it was he hit it with a hammer to give it it's first dent... Not even kidding... My jaw dropped to the ground.


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## bowhunter (Sep 10, 2007)

Loke said:


> Why do you need a machine rest to zero your gun? If it kicks too much maybe you should look for a nicer caliber.


As a moderator, I wouldn't expect such a stupid answer from you...Really? Come on man!!! Don't be a D-bag. Put yourself in his shoes. He's just venting over something that I'm sure we'd all be pissed about.

Lame response man.


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## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

Agreed, stuff does happen and life moves on. Not like this is a $5000 custom build or something. It's a $1k rifle I can pass down to my son someday. I take pride in taking care of my stuff though, so I guess the salt has a little more sting in the wound on this one. 

Appreciate the therapy gents! I needed it.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

I wasn't discounting the value of the gun. It shouldn't matter if it's a grand or five grand. I'm just saying I would judge them based off of how they take care of you not on the mistake made.


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## Smoot (Sep 30, 2015)

It sucks that someone else did this your property, I would be bothered too. But honestly I think trying to keep a gun in mint condition sort of defeats the utilitarian purpose of the gun in the first place. Keeping it clean and mechanically sound is one thing, but a rifle thats been in the field even once should show some character. You should see some of my lever guns. They still shoot as good as the day they came out of the box, but man do they show their usage.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Smoot said:


> It sucks that someone else did this your property, I would be bothered too. But honestly I think trying to keep a gun in mint condition sort of defeats the utilitarian purpose of the gun in the first place. Keeping it clean and mechanically sound is one thing, but a rifle thats been in the field even once should show some character. You should see some of my lever guns. They still shoot as good as the day they came out of the box, but man do they show their usage.


While I definitely agree with you about the rifle staying functional, I'd be just as angry with this situation. It's a brand new rifle and those Brownings aren't cheap. While the stock doesn't affect its performance at all, it just sucks knowing that he wasn't the person that caused the damage. When you hunt with equipment, crap happens - plenty of scrapes and dings occur along the way, but they are all part of the hunting memories and experience. All these marks will do is remind him of some idiot who messed up his rifle at the shooting range.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Don't feel bad. Sometimes I use a rest too. Not because I cant handle the recoil, but because I want to be sure the rifle is as steady as possible to get it zero'd best as possible. Then I cant blame the rifle when I miss my shot.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

bowhunter said:


> As a moderator, I wouldn't expect such a stupid answer from you...Really? Come on man!!! Don't be a D-bag. Put yourself in his shoes. He's just venting over something that I'm sure we'd all be pissed about.
> 
> Lame response man.


So because I'm a moderator I'm no longer entitled to an opinion? I've seen too many people rely on a machine rest to sight in their rifles, because they don't have the skills to do it themselves. Then they wonder why they "missed" when an animal they shoot at doesn't fall DRT like they do in the movies, and don't bother to follow up on an animal they gut shot. In my non-moderated opinion, if you don't have the shooting ability to sight in your rifle, you should stay home and practice until you do. If you can't consistently hit a target at 100 yards well enough to adjust your scope, you have no business shooting at a live animal at any distance, let alone at whatever you describe as "long range".


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I think you should sight in how you are going to shoot in the field. Otherwise your gun isn't really zero'd in when you think about it. Shooting off of sticks versus a lead sled or what not is completely different. You will be very inconsistent, and then people wonder why they shoot way high or low etc... Same thing goes with trigger pulls. Even if you don't have a good trigger pull, if you consistently pull it the same way, even poorly, you can sight in accordingly and get really good groupings. You can't do that from a vise type set up. A little off topic, sorry. That sucks about your gun, it's totally different when someone else does damage to it versus yourself. As long as it shoots straight though.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Loke said:


> So because I'm a moderator I'm no longer entitled to an opinion? I've seen too many people rely on a machine rest to sight in their rifles, because they don't have the skills to do it themselves. Then they wonder why they "missed" when an animal they shoot at doesn't fall DRT like they do in the movies, and don't bother to follow up on an animal they gut shot. In my non-moderated opinion, if you don't have the shooting ability to sight in your rifle, you should stay home and practice until you do. If you can't consistently hit a target at 100 yards well enough to adjust your scope, you have no business shooting at a live animal at any distance, let alone at whatever you describe as "long range".


I totally disagree with Loke on this one. Get your rifle sighted in the best you can however you can. This makes you the only variable. I use a $500+ bench rest setup to zero my rifles for hunting when I will never have the luxury of that type of rest in the field. Sight in and load development is all about removing as many variables as possible. After these things are done is the time for developing marksmanship. Very few people I've met( including gun counter experts) have the ability to shoot to a modern rifles potential without A LOT of help, ie bench rest devices. I myself fall into this group and I'm usually at least the third best shot at the range.-----SS


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Nope, I agree with Loke and utahgolf.

"POI" (point of impact) can change quite a bit from machine fired to human fired. I've personally seen this happen and it was over a 2MOA poi change. In fact, I've seen quite a POI change from a lefty shooting a gun sighted in by a righty and vice versa. 

Look if you want a machine to get you close to zero fine, but the hunter definitely needs to do the final sighting in.


-DallanC


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Shooter, I'm not talking about benchrests. I'm talking about the vises that you clamp your gun into, and even the lead sleds. They alter the way your gun recoils, making it different than when you are holding it. I've never met a benchrest or avid varmint shooter that needed to clamp his gun into a rest, or have someone else sight the gun in for them. 
My favorite are the guys that come in the night before the rifle opener (insert whatever species you want) and ask us to bore sight their rifle for them, because they didn't have time to go to the range.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

The worst thing about clamps and sleds is that they are very hard on your equipment. Vortex has warrantied hundreds of scopes thanks to the lead sled. Everyone else is just out of luck.

By the way Loke, my daughter killed a nice bull with a 270 this year. With all the guns I own she picked a 270......even over a 25-06. Kids these days. ------SS


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Nope, I agree with Loke and utahgolf.
> 
> "POI" (point of impact) can change quite a bit from machine fired to human fired. I've personally seen this happen and it was over a 2MOA poi change. In fact, I've seen quite a POI change from a lefty shooting a gun sighted in by a righty and vice versa.
> 
> ...


I agree that final 'proofing' must be done to confirm that your rifle POI has not shifted when moving from bench conditions to field conditions. If a rifle is built right it should not shift POI enough to worry about. Mine shoot the same from a bench, bipod, shooting sticks, prone, etc. I've never tried a machine. If a rifle is bedded correctly and a scope is free of parallax then I'm not sure what can really shift POI? In my opinion, if your rifle shifts POI for any reason or if you are always having to make sight adjustments you probably need to do some work to your rifle. I have rifles that haven't had the scope covers off for several years. And I shoot a bunch. When my POI starts to shift it usually means I have shot out another tube. Slight shift can occur when changing ammunition components especially bullet lots but that doesn't usually effect much at normal ranges.

The only time I've witnessed a considerable POI shift is when a bipod is used on a plastic or Tupperware stock that is flexible enough to allow twisting and inconsistent contact with the barrel on the forend.

Practice is the answer. Folks like those mentioned by Loke are missing out on one of the most rewarding parts of being an outdoorsman. Good old fashioned marksmanship.--------SS


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I would be extremely ticked off too, regardless of it being fancy or not. They know the risk and they really should fix it, but highly doubt that they will. It is not as if they are doing it for free, they are charging people for a service and part of that service comes with some potential liability. Very unfortunate that you didnt notice it before leaving, which I can totally see how it happened, but that makes it a little more difficult. Best of luck!


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Okay, so maybe I'm not going to win any popularity contests with these remarks, but if you want a pristine rifle with no cosmetic flaws you better never take it into the field. Chit happens, and scratches, gouges, and chips are going to result as a matter of normal wear and tear. If a guy is going to tear up and boob every time a new blemish appears, best leave it behind.

Second, marksmanship is all about breath control, concentration, eye/finger coordination, and confidence in your equipment, and a machine can't give you that.....that is a skill that has to be developed the hard way through repetitive process. Personally, that's why I can't fathom why anyone would take their rifle to another person to sight in for them, there are no short cuts.


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## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

Great comments and opinions here. The assumptions made and judgment of others as a result of shared comment and opinion is always an interesting dichotomy of our culture.

As for the rifle, I am over it already. I didn't even end up talking to the guy about it at the range last night as they were 3 or 4 guys deep over there consistently. I am confident there is no way they would do anything and it was my choice, so I'll live with that choice and move on. Too much good in life to worry long about what is now done. Especially this time of year!

I did, after replacing my rear base/ring (failure) and remounting my scope figure out the root cause of the anomalies I was having with this rifle , which ultimately led me to getting talked into putting it on the zero matic. Good news is, last night off the bench (where the first ~50 rounds down the barrel were shot from btw) I'm right back to tight zero and tight groupings and holding them as I expected from this rifle.


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## Mtnbeer (Jul 15, 2012)

Think of it this way, you can now get rid of that ugly composite stock and get a beautiful laminated stock and complete the package of the ultimate Utah big game gun. Everyone knows real men shoot guns with laminated or wood stocks. :mrgreen:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Some time ago I posted a similar gripe to this. I was hunting chuckars with my new SBE-II (cuz I could use a sling on it) and I slipped and buggered up a small part of the camo finish on the barrel.

If memory serves me right, guys teased me and said that I shouldn't be so worried about it. And if I cant handle a few dings here and there, then I cant afford the gun / shouldn't have bought it.

Some time has passed, and I still get mad that I dinged my gun. Not because I cant afford it, but because I like to take care of my stuff so that it will last.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

BUL_KRZY said:


> I did, after replacing my rear base/ring (failure) and remounting my scope figure out the root cause of the anomalies I was having with this rifle , which ultimately led me to getting talked into putting it on the zero matic. Good news is, last night off the bench (where the first ~50 rounds down the barrel were shot from btw) I'm right back to tight zero and tight groupings and holding them as I expected from this rifle.


Now there is a bit of information that alters my assumptions.


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