# My Muzzy Failed me...again...



## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I've been shooting muzz rifles for nearly 40 years and have had a very good time doing it. My old 45 killed several deer before I obtained a "new" TC Renegade (used) in 54. That baby has killed a ton of deer for me using my usual 425 Hornady Great Plains bullets...past posts will show you the rest...

I retired that rifle and use it strictly for rendezvous and kicking some butt on the firing line.

I picked up another that says "Renegade" on the barrel, but I don't think it's the same as the other one I have.

So, two years in a row, I have missed 3 deer with this gun and just recently a BIG elk at 80 yards! How on earth do you miss a barn at 80 yards, standing broadside, using a rest and "I can still see the sight picture" in my mind?

So, Weasel and I went to the gun range and I shot my usual 90 grain load of 2ff powder and 425 gr. bullet and the first shot hit 17 inches high at 100 yards. Second shot, 15 inches high and 4 inches right. Third shot, who knows where it went. Fourth shot, 13 inches high.

I'm using a rest and taking lots of time to aim. I'm cleaning between shots, using Windex and lots of patches. Nothing new there.

As frustrating as it was, I ended up shooting 9 times and only hit the 24 in paper once! And that was my last shot.

I have decided this gun does NOT like my choice of conical bullets and am now going to try some of the other bullets. I might even try some of the ones with the plastic butts hooked to them. I'm not really fond of them, but I'm also not fond of missing big game at close ranges. I like the bore sized bullets. 

Do you think the fact that this barrel has that 1 1/2 inch (or so) space without riflings at the muzzle could be causing the bullets to fly where ever they want to go? I'm an old timer, and rifling's should be able to be felt with your finger at the end of the barrel.

So, before you start to give me some good advise, let me tell you, I only shoot black powder...not substitute stuff. I'd love to tell you I don't like the idea of spitting plastic wads all over the mountain, but it looks like most of the bullet makers now days have some sort of plastic butt hooked to the bullet, or a plastic sabot around it, and/or even a plastic tip to make it fly better hooked to it. 

I also like BIG HEAVY bullets to get the job done quickly. I don't care for over 100 yard shots, even though I have taken a few.

What should I try?


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

What is your barrel twist? The end minus the riflings, usually called QLA, is just to help start the bullets easier. It shouldn't effect the bullets rotation as it leaves the gun. Is your bore rough? You said you got it used... dunno I'm brainstorming. The ones that hit paper, were they concentric holes or oblong? Wondering if there might be some tumbling or off axis yaw going on.

When I shot pure BP, I had one load of FF for one type of bullet, and I found FFF worked better for another type of bullet. Typically you have to reduce and work back up with FFF as its faster burning, more suited to pistols.

My hawkin is rebarreled with a fast twist, but man it shot high... tight groups but HIGH! I have the sights cranked down as far as they'll go... I even did alot of digging to find a higher front post but nada. Dropped the load down to 80 grns and it lowered the POI enough. Taught my boy to hold the font sight low in the rear notch when we shot over the summer in prep for his hunt.

-DallanC


----------



## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

That space on the barrel ( forget what its called) is used for starting bullets with. And yes it will make a conical bullet fly off target. Power belts are the ones with the plastic butts. I have used them with great success a 405 grain for the ole 54 cal. Should get you going.


----------



## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

The only thing I could get to fly out of my 54 cal Knight is the Powerbelt. I even tried Knight's own bullets.
I shoot the 348 grain Hollow points.
They have worked great !!


----------



## Buzzard (Oct 20, 2008)

My knight 54 would throw the 425 grain bullets all over the place if I went over 80 grain of FFG. Good luck


----------



## Watcher (Dec 31, 2008)

Buffalo Bullet - 54 Caliber 425 Grain Hollow Base, Hollow Point Black Powder Muzzleloader Conical Bullet behind 95 g of powder. I use this in the same gun - amazingly accurate.


----------



## lifes short (Sep 11, 2013)

Where was it shooting when you sighted in before the hunts?


----------



## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I'm not always available to get on this site and so please bear(s butt) with me on my late responses.

I'll try and answer questions that I remember from you who asked them. The rifle is actually a new one straight from the factory. I sent them a very badly damaged piece of junk and they returned a brand new one to me. So, it has the new barrel with the "QLA" end. As for twist, I "think" it's 1:48, but I'm not sure. That is what I understand the Renegade was built with. A compromise barrel twist.
I took it out several times before some of my "important" hunts and sighted it in using my "go to" conical etc. and it printed pretty good patterns when I finally decided it was good enough for that particular hunt. I did have issues with getting it to print a consistent group and that should have been a hint at that time. However, on the hunt itself, my kill shot was NOT where I expected to hit the animal.
I passed that off as buck fever and let it go at that.
Since that hunt, I have missed two deer and now an elk, like I said. And again at the range it was all over the place.
I will get me some of the Powerbelts and give them a try. It will be a few weeks before that will take place however, as I have a cow elk hunt knocking, plus Christmas, ice fishing and then trapping season. I thank you all for your comments and wish you all the very best for the rest of the hunting seasons and Merry Christmas to each of you and your families.
I feel like this forum is a very vital part of my family. It has been since it was first formed by the Utah DWR and still is today. Ya, some folks come and go, but what the heck, that is the same with all forums I belong to. The new comers add a good bit of light to it and that is why I keep this one in my bookmarks!


----------



## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

Power belts and buffalo bore are the same bullets different name


----------



## Boly (Sep 23, 2008)

Bears Butt
I have a suggestion for you that will not involve putting plastic down the barrel. Hornady makes a FPB bullet that is concave at the base and is fully jacketed. It is a 350 grains in a .50 cal. I'm not sure if they maket a .54 cal. Another one to try is the No Excuses bullet, it is an all lead bullet and they are heavy. I have had great success with them in a .50 @ 460 gr. I have heard some good and bad about the powerbelts but nothing bad on the other two. Hope that helps


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

That sucks to hear those great plains aren't working for you. That's the go to bullet for me as well out of my .54 Knight.


----------



## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

I have been shooting powerbelts, the lead hollowpoints with the green "belt". I haven't been very happy with them. I can hit the paper every time, but the accuracy isn't what I had hoped for. I think I am going to switch this year.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I recommend ball-ets for the 1/48" twist. They are hollow in the rear which helps stabilize them as they move through the air (keeps the skirt behind the nose). Doesn't take as much rotation to stabilize... gives you more energy down range than a round ball.


-DallanC


----------



## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I recommend ball-ets for the 1/48" twist. They are hollow in the rear which helps stabilize them as they move through the air (keeps the skirt behind the nose). Doesn't take as much rotation to stabilize... gives you more energy down range than a round ball.
> 
> -DallanC


Have you ever seen a mold for these or are they a purchase only item?


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I would kill for a mold... but I buy them. Walmart used to carry them years ago. I still have half a box and if sabots ever get banned, I'll use the rest then. They shoot almost as good as my sabot loads.

245grn version:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=3625

270grn version:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=3632

-DallanC


----------



## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

Maybe you should try MAXIBALLS. :grin:


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

My .54 Renegade loves the 430grain TC Maxi Ball and 90 grains of 2F powder or Pyrodex. I use Pyrodex just for the cleaner burn . If you can't find any let me know and I'll send you a few to try out.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

CROC said:


> Maybe you should try MAXIBALLS. :grin:


Maxi's suffer from the same problem, not enough rotation to stabilize it in some guns. That is why I prefer ball-ets in slower twist, non roundball* specific guns. The design of the weight distribution doesn't require much of a twist... it flys like a badminton "bird" with the weight in the nose.

**note, when I said "non roundball specific guns", I mean those with twists in the 1/48" range. True roundball barrels are usually 1/66 or 1/72" twist.

Just throwing out options. I love frontstuffers and did alot of experimenting with them over the years. I tested all kinds of things just for the heck of it (waterproofing, leaving a barrel loaded but uncapped to test moisture contamination of the load / ignition etc etc).

-DallanC


----------



## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

Maxi hunters don't fly worth beans in my hawkin but the maxi balls do better.


----------

