# Ballistic Coefficient and interesting stats from Federal's website



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I was just on the Federal ammunition website and comparing the ballistics between different loads and calibers and I was very surprised to see what an impact the bc of a bullet makes. I never gave much thought to it before and always just kind of assumed that equal weight bullets from the same caliber would fly pretty much the same.

Comparing the .300 win mag 180 grain Nosler partition with the .30-06 180 grain trophy copper we can really see how a higher bc comes into play. The 180 grain partition has a lower bc of .361 and the 180 grain trophy copper has a much better bc with a .523.

Coming out of the muzzle the .300 win mag Nosler greatly outperforms the .30-06 with a 2,960 fps velocity and 3,500 foot pounds of energy to the '06's 2,700 fps velocity and 2,900 foot pounds of energy. However, the further we go out the more the performance gap closes until we get to 300 yards the ballistics between the two bullets are very similar with only a slight edge going to the .300 win mag. Past 300 yards it gets very interesting as the standard caliber '06 outperforms the .300 win mag! At 4 and 5 hundred yards the scales tip in favor of the little '06.
At 500 yards the '06 has a muzzle velocity of 1,910 fps compared to the .300 win mag's 1799 fps. The .30-06 yields 1457 foot pounds of energy compared to the .300 win mag's 1294.

I found it very interesting that at longer distances where a magnum is supposed to really shine over standard calibers a bullet with a good bc can actually give a standard caliber the edge over a magnum caliber with a low bc bullet. However, when we compare apples to apples and do a side by side comparison of the .30-06 180 grain trophy copper and the .300 win mag 180 grain trophy copper the .300 win mag has the decisive advantage you would expect it to.

The Federal website below will give you the stats to the loads I was commenting on along with many others.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/rifle_compare.aspx

Thoughts? Comments?


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I've been trying to get a chart to come up that shows a side by side comparison of the loads but I can't figure it out. Sorry guys. But the website makes it pretty easy to look up the stats yourself.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

BC is the stat that matters. You are right on with your observation that BC can bridge the gap between magnum and standard calibers. I used to be all about velocity. As I get older, things have gotten slower, more precise, less violent, and BC's have gotten higher. The only exception is my 25 Ackley with 100gr bullets at 3500+ fps.----SS


----------



## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

You should try the Nosler Accubond Long Range. I loaded up 100 of the 168gr for my 7mm. They have a BC of 0.652 and they are extremely accurate. I shot a .55" 10 shot group.


----------



## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

Afishnado said:


> You should try the Nosler Accubond Long Range. I loaded up 100 of the 168gr for my 7mm. They have a BC of 0.652 and they are extremely accurate. I shot a .55" 10 shot group.


Do those bullets have a suggested minimum velocity for them to reliably open up?


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

SD is great... but its no good for hunting if your high BC bullets are FMJ (alot of match bullets are). Standard Deviation of velocity is also important for accuracy, its how uniform your velocities are. 

IMO, I look for a reliably expanding bullet for big game (partition, accubond, grandslam) followed by a high BC, and a reasonable velocity. A 150grn bullet out of a 270 will have a higher BC than a 130, at the cost of slower velocity... so trying to find the best balance is where the homework and load development comes in.

PointBlank ballistics will let you compare 10 different load trajectories at the same time.


-DallanC


----------



## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

royta said:


> Do those bullets have a suggested minimum velocity for them to reliably open up?


Yes, 1300fps minimum with no maximum.


----------



## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

I shoot an '06, and I'm not really interested in a 190 gr or 210 gr bullet, but even the regular Accubonds have a much higher BC than standard soft points. I'll give them a look.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Getting ready for the bison hunt I just shot some 7mm with 180 grain bergers yesterday that a friend loaded for me. Shot two different loads. To be honest I have never shot anything other than factory loads. I could not believe the difference. I will not be shooting anything else from here on out.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Getting ready for the bison hunt I just shot some 7mm with 180 grain bergers yesterday that a friend loaded for me. Shot two different loads. To be honest I have never shot anything other than factory loads. I could not believe the difference. I will not be shooting anything else from here on out.


Mr. Mule, after much experience with Berger bullets, let me make a few suggestions. First, Berger bullets are among the most fragile of hunting bullets. I would put ballistic tips above them when talking performance on game. They can be very accurate and their high coefficient will help them carry speed and energy to longer ranges. They will kill game well, but they typically penetrate a short distance before fragmenting causing a huge but short wound channel. I personally would hesitate to use them on a bison. They will kill one, but be wise picking your shots and use the accuracy of the bullet to place them in an area with the least amount of hard stuff in front of the vitals. If you are not dead set on using these, there are better bullets out there for your purposes, especially if you will be shooting less than 500 yards and really especially for shots inside 200 yards.-------SS


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Not dead set on them. I was just REALLY impressed with the patterns that I was shooting. I could put a thumb on my groups. I have always been a pretty good shot but I considered 1-1/2" to be excellent. Yesterday was another story.

As far as the bison goes I was really just wanting a heavy grain bullet to start with and my friend had some berger vld on hand that he loaded for me. I have been scouring the shelves for something heavier than 160 and didn't have any luck.

SS if you have the time I would sure be interested in your advice on another thread that I started regarding reloading. Thanks


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Getting ready for the bison hunt I just shot some 7mm with 180 grain bergers yesterday that a friend loaded for me. Shot two different loads. To be honest I have never shot anything other than factory loads. I could not believe the difference. I will not be shooting anything else from here on out.


 What's this talk of the 7mm muleskinner? I thought you were gonna use the 45-70. Style points! What about the style points!?


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I was looking at buying one but I would like to get some new binoculars. I have looked pretty hard at getting a Shilo but the fact is I would probably use it once and then hang it on the wall. My pentax glasses are wanting to get passed down to my son. I've got my eye on the new Zeiss binoculars. Every time I hunt I am asking my brother for swarovskis anymore.

The 45-70 still isn't out of the question though. We had a dear friend pass away that had a Marlin 45-70. It never shot a thing other than paper. Might end up taking it as a tribute to him.


----------



## lifes short (Sep 11, 2013)

*An interesting read*

This may be interesting to you.http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/


----------



## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Springville Shooter said:


> Mr. Mule, after much experience with Berger bullets, let me make a few suggestions. First, Berger bullets are among the most fragile of hunting bullets. I would put ballistic tips above them when talking performance on game. They can be very accurate and their high coefficient will help them carry speed and energy to longer ranges. They will kill game well, but they typically penetrate a short distance before fragmenting causing a huge but short wound channel. I personally would hesitate to use them on a bison. They will kill one, but be wise picking your shots and use the accuracy of the bullet to place them in an area with the least amount of hard stuff in front of the vitals. If you are not dead set on using these, there are better bullets out there for your purposes, especially if you will be shooting less than 500 yards and really especially for shots inside 200 yards.-------SS


Hey spring I have a question for you. How are the Berger VLD's on elk or deer. I have a K31 which is a Milsurp Swiss rifle. They are highly accurate and from what I have read the Berger VLD's most closely match the ammo this gun was designed around and give the best performance. However if the VLD's are not substantial for deer or elk I will have to play around with other bullets. I believe the recommended Berger's are in the 175 gr range and the caliber is .308


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

lifes short said:


> This may be interesting to you.http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/


I would sure like to see the muzzle velocities required to reach those velocities at 1000 yards.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Sorry, I think barnes bullets are trash. Sure they are fast, I was over 3600fps with the 140 XLCs out of my 7STW but accuracy was crap for every type I tried. I tried boxes and boxes of them trying to find some combination that would be accurate. I have a shelf full of mag powders that failed to get me reasonable accuracy. 

I hunted with a couple sub 2moa loads on elk, killed one elk hit through the heart but on cleaning it, it was very obvious it did not expand... it only died because it clipped the top of the heart. The other bull got away. I sold ALL thle remaining barnes bullets I had earlier this year. Never will I waste a second on them ever again.


-DallanC


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Hey spring I have a question for you. How are the Berger VLD's on elk or deer. I have a K31 which is a Milsurp Swiss rifle. They are highly accurate and from what I have read the Berger VLD's most closely match the ammo this gun was designed around and give the best performance. However if the VLD's are not substantial for deer or elk I will have to play around with other bullets. I believe the recommended Berger's are in the 175 gr range and the caliber is .308


VLD bullets can work fine for deer or elk, just realize that you are shooting a very fragile bullet and choose your load accordingly. In other words, dont shoot a lighter weight VLD at 3400 FPS and expect in to hold together. In a rifle like you have, heavier weight bullets should work fine for deer and elk, especially for broadside angle shots where super deep penetration is not needed. Keep velocities mild, bullet weight heavy, and aim just behind the shoulder and the VLD will be fine. --------SS


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Sorry, I think barnes bullets are trash. Sure they are fast, I was over 3600fps with the 140 XLCs out of my 7STW but accuracy was crap for every type I tried. I tried boxes and boxes of them trying to find some combination that would be accurate. I have a shelf full of mag powders that failed to get me reasonable accuracy.
> 
> I hunted with a couple sub 2moa loads on elk, killed one elk hit through the heart but on cleaning it, it was very obvious it did not expand... it only died because it clipped the top of the heart. The other bull got away. I sold ALL thle remaining barnes bullets I had earlier this year. Never will I waste a second on them ever again.
> 
> -DallanC


While the new offerings from Barnes ar much better than the XLC's, they are still not my favorite either. One thing that I will say is that you can count on them to penetrate. There are applications where they work great especially when you are trying to stretch the performance of an undersized cartridge. I love Nosler bullets and find myself shooting them most of the time.--------SS


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Much <3 for Nosler's... Partitions or Accubonds... or BT's!


-DallanC


----------

