# New Hunter Any Bull Questions



## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Hi all,
My friend and I are brand new hunters this year. 
We each have an any bull tag and an antlerless control tag but are really only looking to fill one anterless tag between the two of us for the freezer .
We intend to be ethical hunters and we know the serious nature of a elk hunt. I've got a stack of books on elk biology, behavior, and hunting techniques, all of which I've studied. 
My question is regarding scouting. I've twice scouted near the Hayden peak area where I've seen sign but no elk. I've been on the ground and have also been glassing from high ridges around 7am. Our next step was to scout near Christmas Meadow and/or closer to the WY border rather than the areas nearer to Kamas as I've read pressured elk often flee into WY. 
I know we need to put in more time scouting. My question is this: would anyone be willing to give us some more specific direction? By direction I mean anything from from a large area to look, a basin, or something more specific if you're willing. In addition, are the best hours for looking dawn and dusk or is there any use in scouting during midday hours?
In addition, we're curious about glassing from high ridges vs. scouting the timber. We've read that you should hunt it but not scout it because it spooks the elk. But then, how do you know which dark timber to hunt if your ridge glassing is showing no elk? We've been focusing on the Uintas so far but are willing to change our plans to another unit if something else makes more sense (my friend is also looking in the West Desert as a family member mentioned seeing a small band there).

We're not looking to steal anyone's spot they've worked for. Neither of us grew up hunting and neither of us has mentors we can reach out to. The Uintas are a huge area so any narrowing down help would be very appreciated.
*we do not have horses or ATVs so while we are willing to get off the road we cannot haul quarters miles and miles out of the deepest country.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I cant give any advice on units but...



elkiegirl said:


> *we do not have horses or ATVs so while we are willing to get off the road we cannot haul quarters miles and miles out of the deepest country.


Hunt uphill from the truck 

-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

There are 2 kind of elk hunters in the Uintas-- Those that walk around and those that kill the elk. Get in a spot that has elk and be patient. I'd sit all day the first weekend. Then I might go for a slow walk the following days. I've killed many bulls in the Uintas-- most were sitting escape routes, where I could see a 150 yards. I've killed bulls that way from 7:30am until 4pm. Best mature bull I killed at 1:30pm. 

Now the fun part is finding spots were you can kill an elk. You are on the right track with your plan.


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

elkiegirl said:


> *we do not have horses or ATVs so while we are willing to get off the road we cannot haul quarters miles and miles out of the deepest country.


Well, I had a suggestion for you, if you could promise to never tell anyone else, but that last statement of yours kind of rules it out. I know where you can find elk, but not everyone is willing to go there. 4 miles in. Or, you can do the 1.5 mile route which is a 1,000 ft decent, and back up the other side 600. Packing one out of there would be, um, hell, yeah, that's the word, hell, esp if you aren't used to a 16-20 mile day, 8 of which has 80-90 lb packs. Hey, but all the pack out would be a gradual downhill slope! I've seen elk there each time I visit, but it is a difficult spot to access.

And regarding midday. There are definitely opportunities midday. Not always as good of opportunities, but the elk do not bed down all day. They get up to get food, sometimes water. Food, water, security. Look for all three in close proximity, and there you will find the bigger bulls post-rut.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Good luck to you fellows, but frankly, don't expect much advise as to spots. Most hunters have spots that they have located over the years and in most cases have put in quite a bit of work to catalog. These guys aren't about to: "My question is this: would anyone be willing to give us some more specific direction?", and I don't blame them.

Your other questions about technique and the like will get you a lot of response...some good, some not so good.

Sounds as if you have a pretty good grip on what to do...scouting, etc..so keep at it and hopefully your hard work will pay off with some "spots of your own".

"We each have an any bull tag and an antlerless control tag but are really only looking to fill one anterless tag between the two of us for the freezer"... is it possible that your taking way more tags than you have any intentions of filling will be keeping some other worthy hunter from getting a tag. You know, you can turn those tags that you have no intentions of using back in for recycling...just sayin.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

If each have a tag for a bull or a cow then they can shoot whichever they see. Seems smart to me. 

And the UDWR does not reissue general season permits.

..


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Yes, that's a thought. Thank you!


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

I don't know elk as well as many on here, but here is some of my $0.02 on scouting. 

I don't have any qualms about entering bedding areas during scouting, IF, the scouting is well in advance of the hunt. One week in advance . . . I might be a little hesitant. But I have several experiences this year of a bull being blown out of a spot, only to be seen returning shortly thereafter. By day 5 for sure. They have haunts they prefer, and will return. I feel they come back after a day or two (or sometimes the same afternoon after a morning bump). If you really spook them though, and they start barking - they may move all together for some time.

You also need to keep in mind about other hunts that might be going on (e.g. the youth elk hunt) that such scouting could be interfering with. 

I'm not looking for elk so much when scouting as I am looking for areas where I will find elk come hunting time. So, I'm not much of a glasser when it comes to scouting. I can't see fresh trails, assess the density of droppings, look for rubs, find hidden water holes, find and assess pockets of feed, etc. when behind my binocs. And, most of my elk opportunities have come in areas were no amount of glassing would have had any use. For me, scouting is getting out the boots and putting on miles wandering all over the area. 

A general rule of thumb (with lots of exceptions) is that you can find elk 2/3 of the way up a hillside or small hill on the Mt. The top ridge is good as well, esp small finger ridges you may or may not be able to pick out on topo, but that spot 2/3 up the hill provides good escape up or down. 

Another general rule of thumb is that most elk will be >1/2 mile from any road or frequently used trail. In fact, there is a study that actually quantifies how far away elk typically are from different types of roads and trails. They prefer to be away from any human activity. There are most certainly exceptions to this (came close to killing several bulls this year that were within 80 yards of a public road), but its a good general rule of thumb to consider. There is a reason you generally don't see any fresh elk droppings near easy to access areas. 

Finally, I would add that to me, scouting is a multi-year activity for any given area. My summer trips are preparation for the hunt, my time during the hunt is preparation for next years hunt, and so forth. It's most certainly possible to take an elk your first year, but honestly, you might need to look at this as a multi-year objective. It takes years to figure out the elk in a given area - where their haunts are, the areas that for whatever reason they seem to rarely frequent, the escape routes, etc. 

Definitely get out there, have a positive attitude, but just realize it isn't easy to take an elk, esp your first year without going with someone first to get a feel for where to find them. You can do it! Just realize it may take longer than this year alone.


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

What are you going to do when you get one down? Have you butchered any animal before? Rabbits? Game birds even? An elk is a beast to deal with if you haven't done a game animal before! If you are good, you can do it after watching a few youtube videos, but, it's not a simple task. Perhaps you need to be in cell phone range to call someone that can help?


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## springerhunter (Apr 17, 2008)

I am pretty sure the area you have scouted on the North Slope of the Uintas is not part of the antlerless control elk tag. There are lots of good areas on the South Slope as well though.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

springerhunter said:


> I am pretty sure the area you have scouted on the North Slope of the Uintas is not part of the antlerless control elk tag. There are lots of good areas on the South Slope as well though.


True, most of the north slope is not an antlerless area, there are 12 units in Utah that are antlerless and south slope is one of them. Tons of elk on the south slope if you are willing to hike far, hunting midweek will also be your best option with less hunters in the field.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Send me a PM and I'll give you some ideas.


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Hi Packout. That's really interesting advice and that's the way I'd prefer to hunt (especially this year) I'm quite honestly still learning the whats and whys of elk. Can you explain what you mean by escape route? Are you meaning a pass where elk might go over mountains to get into another drainage or are you meaning actual boundaries (such as waiting near a private property or state line). I've been considering doing the slow stalk method of hunting in the trees and perhaps placing myself in one of those areas (not sure on what drainage I'm hunting yet). 

Also, when you say a spot that has elk, would I have determined the spot has elk because I've seen sign or is it because I've actually seem then while up on the ridges looking? A few people have PM'd me with some spots to try but I can't scout them all, so perhaps I will pick one or two and do as you've suggested (stay still-ish). Thanks!


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

30-06 Hunter thank you for the clarification! There are a couple of areas Ive found that are both any bull and anterless control and I made sure to recheck on the Utah Hunt Planner's topographic map. It's encouraging to hear about the elk numbers on the South Slope! How far off the road (in miles and altitude gain) would you say a hunter should plan on walking in a day of hunting on the South Slope?


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Thank you RidgeTop!


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Hi BPTurkey, We were not meaning to waste tags. I had to buy an any bull tag to be able to purchase an anterless control tag. When I thought we had more people who were going to help haul, process, an eat the elk shooting two cows made sense. Several people have backed on wanting and helping with me out so now it wouldn't make sense to shoot animals that won't be used. I wish I could get a refund one one of the cow tags but I'm stuck with it now.


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Charina, 

Thank you for all your good advice! The scouting advice was extremely helpful. I'm quite content to have this be a multi-year operation. Of course, I'd love to fill my tag this year for the purpose of filling a freezer, but I had no illusions when I decided I wanted to do this in August that I was coming in A. very late for planning purposes and B. with no experience. I actually really enjoy the planning -everything from reading about units to finding the right gear. I'm a hiker and explorer and already do variety of outdoor events and so continuing to wander the woods looking for game (I've expanded to wanting to hunt some game birds as well) are hobbies I can enjoy year round. I won't be discouraged if I don't shoot an elk this year; I'll frankly be surprised if I find them this time around. 

Regarding your question about having butchered an animal before, I have not (except for a fish which I'm sure doesn't count). I've watched dozens of YouTube videos and read several chapters on field quartering, meat care, etc. Of course, nothing beats experience but sadly there isn't a way for me to get any because I wasn't willing to kill an animal I wasn't going to eat so there hasn't really been a way to practice. As I mentioned before though, I have a new interest in hunting game birds if I do not end up filling my elk tag I will have a year to practice field dressing those birds at the very least. There isn't really anyone I can call in for help because I do not run with a crowd who knows the first thing about this (neither do I have any family that can help). So, it's self teach it or nothing at all, so here I am! My friend and I are searching for a small cow that we can quarter using the gutless method. That seems to be the most realistic for novices but I'm open to other advice. Thanks again! 

I'm willing to take a look (I enjoy exploring new areas for the sake of it anyway) and if I didn't feel like we could handle it we'd simply make the decision not to hunt there. If you're still willing to share, I'm willing to look.


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## Baron83 (May 24, 2016)

Good luck! It'll be fun either way


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

As a father of all girls its nice to see some female hunting enthusiasm. Good luck


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

In most places that have hunting pressure, or just any human activity of any kind, elk will high-tail it to cover as soon as the sun begins to shine on them. They particularly like to feed on open slopes that have dark timber on the backside of them for quick and easy concealment access. They also prefer to cross through, or very near, to saddles on ridges. If at all possible, be above them before they move, which means hiking in the dark with a headlamp.

To help with packing out, pull the quarters off and hang from a branch or something and debone to get rid of the extra bone weight. If you are able to shoot a small cow/yearling, you can expect 40 - 50 lb quarters with the bone in. The best way to have good elk table fare is to get it cooled down (skinned and broke down) and clean.


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## elkiegirl (Sep 18, 2017)

Hello HighDesertElk,

Thank you for those details. I do have a question; in one area I scouted I saw elk (or moose?) sign in flat area near water that was surprisingly close to to the road (maybe 3/4 of a mile). I am trying to figure out where the elk go because in this particular basin there the mountains become rocky very quickly. In other words, the trees grow right up to the base but as soon as the include starts the terrain turns open and rocky in a hurry. So, I am trying to determine where these elk will go. It seems the only place they can head is north though the forest toward private property. 

That was very helpful advice on where the elk cross. I have it pictured this way: elk are in basin A and start getting pressured. Elk then actually cross the mountains or peaks at a saddle in the ridge to get into another basin, and so on until they get far enough away. Does that sound correct? Will elk cross at rocky points with little cover (I'm picturing rocky saddles like I've seen climbing in the Tetons) or do they seek out saddles full of timber?

So far we have received suggestions for several spots on the North Slope and two spots on the South Slope. We have found a packing service in case we get shoot an elk so we can get a bit farther off the road than we thought. If we have only seen elk sign but no actual elk, would you suggest we simply start off (quietly) through the timber and try to find where they have bedded down? 

Thanks for the help! For meat we've decided to gutless quarter, debone, and pack out. I've made a meat processing kit that includes a painting drop cloth to keep it clean. After all this, if by some miracle we locate and shoot an elk, I do not want the meat ruined!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I have seen elk travel up hillsides where you would normally see mountain goats, so anything is game. As far as the flats area you speak of, it may be a wintering area, and makes sense of where they go if there is cover leading to private land. If they are resident rather than migratory, catch them before they head home for the day


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

A few things that may, or may not have been mentioned:

Look for "sign". Tracks and crap. If you're finding green, slimy, soft crap, then you should be in the right area.

Listen! Elk can be very noisy! Let them "talk" you to them.

Watch. Use those binoculars. Glass the ridges, and especially the edges of clearings. Elk are usually easy to see -- their color really stands out. Find areas that give you a good viewing area, and start looking. You can do this in the morning, evening, mid-day, brunch, or 2nd breakfast.

When is your hunt? If you have snow on the ground, get yourself a sled. Pulling quarters tied in a toboggan is much easier -- especially if it's downhill! And, it doesn't have to be some fancy, expensive sled from a sporting goods store marketed towards fishing and hunting. Children's snow sleds slide just as easily!

Last thing -- AND THIS IS IMPORTANT -- pick out 1 elk, and shoot it. Do not shoot another elk until you have verified whether you hit or missed the first shot! This mistake happens all the time. Elk are big. They can withstand numerous shots. Sometimes they don't flinch and the hunter thinks they missed. So they shoot another elk. Next thing you know: two dead elk on the ground and only one tag. Keep an eye on the one elk. If it doesn't go down immediately, you can shoot again. If you know you hit it, give it a bit to fall down. Don't lose patience and make a critical mistake by shooting a second animal.


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## CAExpat (Oct 27, 2013)

Don't be discouraged, just jump in and get wet. You'll learn so much the first year, then the next year and the next. It's great to be optmistic, and you should, however don't discount these animals. They are incredibly amazing and resilient, it may take you a few years to figure them out and kill one. You could also get your cow 20 minutes into the first elk hunt of your life, like me. However I spent the next 4 seasons paying my dues. 

Also as mentioned, be prepared for the gut check when you actually see your elk on the ground. As Joe Rogan says, these elk are forest horses with spears growing out of their heads. I'm young, very athletic, and my last packout nearly broke me. Be cognizant of where you are and be sure you'll be able to give that animal the respect it deserves after you've squeezed the trigger. 

Have fun, be safe, and take notes for next year.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

You can read all the books you want and ask others to speculate all you want but when you get right down to it the elk are going to be where the elk want to be. Hunting pressure, predators, feed and weather can all change what an elk is doing in an instant. 

The best advice I can give is pick what appears to be a good elk area and start hunting, camping and hiking the area year around. Learn the area and try and learn the elk the best one can. Follow the hope for the best but expect the worst motto and realize that you probably won't shoot an elk this year, maybe not for a few years but eventually things will line up and the elk will start making it to the freezer.

Being new to elk hunting and new hunters to boot you have a lot to learn just getting yourself through the woods in a quiet elk hunting matter not to mention figuring out how the elk are getting around from place to place.

Have fun, enjoy your time hunting, learn as much as you can, stick with it and the elk will come. Like others have stated most the time killing elk is the easy part, once you have one down the real work begins.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I agree with the above post. The best way to be successful 95% of the time is paying your dues, learning the area and habits of the elk that live there. 1% will be skill and the other 4% is just dumb luck ;-)


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## Baron83 (May 24, 2016)

How did your hunt go?


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