# NBA Restart



## RandomElk16

Well, like it or not the NBA and Player's Association have passed their plan and schedule. Looks like it's a go. 

With a month until games and roughly 2 weeks before teams fly in... things should get interesting.


Good news is the NBA as a whole league have half as many cases as a single college football team.


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## pollo70

Let's go Jazz!!


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## Packfish

on one aspect I like sports opening because of the economy.
on the other hand professional sports has lost it luster for me .


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## Critter

Packfish said:


> on one aspect I like sports opening because of the economy.
> on the other hand professional sports has lost it luster for me .


From what I understand they will be playing in empty arena's and you will have to watch on TV, so I don't really see any real boost to the economy except into the players and owners pockets

This late in the NBA game it really is a non issue for me. Even the 60 game schedule for major league baseball in empty stadiums doesn't seem interesting

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla

The country needs sports right now. Bring on some hoop!


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## 2full

Who cares ??


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## TPrawitt91

It's hunting and fishing season now...I honestly doubt I will watch. Basketball is to keep us sane during the winter haha


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## RandomElk16

2full said:


> Who cares ??


I don't know - seemed like a fitting topic for our "sports" category in the forum :mrgreen:


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## CPAjeff

It'll be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out - I think it'll be the Lakers from the West and the Bucks from the East. Lakers in 6 to win the Finals. 'Bron gets another ring. Giannis leaves the Bucks for greener pastures.


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## brisket

I'll be watching at least until the Jazz win it all or are eliminated. Go Jazz! It's gonna be tough with out Bogdanovic, though.

Speaking of sports, I'm still kinda mad they cancelled Wimbledon. If there ever was a sport to play during a pandemic, it's tennis. The ratings would be through the roof being the only event on TV. If you're that worried, play with a brand new ball every serve.


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## Vanilla

2full said:


> Who cares ??


Millions of people around the world. And quite a few of us on this forum.

Anyone that does not like sports certainly does not have to venture into the "sports" section on this forum.

The NBA for me is not entertaining until the playoffs. Playoff basketball is generally good basketball, so I'll tune in when I can.


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## PBH

players are popping positive all over. This is going to be a circus. After sleeping on it, I've change my mind and actually agree with Vanilla about playoff basketball being entertaining -- this year, it certainly is going to be as entertaining as a circus! This is going to be great!


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## Catherder

I have to admit that I could definitely go for some NBA action now and hope they can pull it off. The Florida statistics don't look that great though. 

I don't have a ton of optimism with the Jazz making a deep run, but since our stars already have had covid, maybe we will have a "herd health" advantage with our team if the virus does afflict more teams.


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## PBH

I don't even care about the games themselves. I just want to watch everything else that happens -- the video game parties, lobby "fights" (ie: shoving match), groupies sneaking in, COVID outbreaks....

...circus indeed!


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> players are popping positive all over. This is going to be a circus. After sleeping on it, I've change my mind and actually agree with Vanilla about playoff basketball being entertaining -- this year, it certainly is going to be as entertaining as a circus! This is going to be great!


I realize the Jazz have not given you much to be excited about with playoff basketball for many years now, but you'll enjoy it if you watch.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> I realize the Jazz have not given you much to be excited about with playoff basketball for many years now, but you'll enjoy it if you watch.


Have you forgotten about OKC? The Clippers?

the Jazz have provided some very good playoff basketball in recent years (just not vs. Houston).

I guess I'm just not all that excited about this upcoming tournament. Who knows? Maybe it will be better than expected. March madness style?


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## Vanilla

They'd never do it because of the money they'd lose, but going to a full best of 3 in every series would be fun for this one.


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## PBH

Damian Lillard said:


> "My confidence ain't great," Lillard said with a laugh Wednesday. "My confidence ain't great because you're telling me you're gonna have 22 teams full of players following all the rules? When we have 100 percent freedom, everybody don't follow all the rules. I don't have much confidence...


As time goes on, I'm looking more and more forward to this NBA reboot! This is going to be the best soap opera since Days of Our Lives!


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> As time goes on, I'm looking more and more forward to this NBA reboot! This is going to be the best soap opera since Days of Our Lives!


Why am I not surprised that you sat down and watched "Days of Our Lives"????


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## PBH

It was better than General Hospital.

:noidea:


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## PBH

This is a quote concerning MLB's restart. But I think it is probably applicable to the NBA as well:



> Players tend to believe the micro is a far trickier impediment, with one saying: "I honestly think horny dudes on the road are what's going to bring this down."


I have to say, I'm fully expecting at some point that the NBA bubble get's infiltrated because "horny dudes" at a luxury hotel get sick of hanging with their bro's playing video games.


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## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> This is a quote concerning MLB's restart. But I think it is probably applicable to the NBA as well:
> 
> I have to say, I'm fully expecting at some point that the NBA bubble get's infiltrated because "horny dudes" at a luxury hotel get sick of hanging with their bro's playing video games.


If there was something to ruin it - it would be that for sure!


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## Kwalk3

RandomElk16 said:


> If there was something to ruin it - it would be that for sure!


Haven't there already been rumors about ladies claiming they've been invited to the bubble?

Twitter rumors aren't exactly credible, but I'd almost be more surprised if it hasn't been happening.


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## Vanilla

If it's one Twitter, it's true! Let's just get that straight. 

No doubt there will be attempts to infiltrate the bubble for all kinds of reasons. You'd think people would act in their own self interest for a few months, but we all know better than to believe that across the board. 

If the NBA experiment failed and they had to pull the plug on this bubble, it would have catastrophic financial consequences for the NBA, and therefore, its players. If you don't care about health and safety, at least care about your pocket book and future finances enough to follow these rules. 

The NFL is looking at a cap reduction next year of $30-80m. (I still don't believe this will happen, but that is the reports.) Think about how many guys will be out of jobs or signed for FAR less in their contract than if the cap was going up $15-20m next year instead of dropping? This is actually money coming out of players pockets, and they should not want that. But who am I to judge? Lose millions, or tens of millions, if you must.


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## Kwalk3

Vanilla said:


> If it's one Twitter, it's true! Let's just get that straight.
> 
> No doubt there will be attempts to infiltrate the bubble for all kinds of reasons. You'd think people would act in their own self interest for a few months, but we all know better than to believe that across the board.
> 
> If the NBA experiment failed and they had to pull the plug on this bubble, it would have catastrophic financial consequences for the NBA, and therefore, its players. If you don't care about health and safety, at least care about your pocket book and future finances enough to follow these rules.
> 
> The NFL is looking at a cap reduction next year of $30-80m. (I still don't believe this will happen, but that is the reports.) Think about how many guys will be out of jobs or signed for FAR less in their contract than if the cap was going up $15-20m next year instead of dropping? This is actually money coming out of players pockets, and they should not want that. But who am I to judge? Lose millions, or tens of millions, if you must.


I agree with this 100%. I also believe everything on the twitter. They don't allow anything to be posted there that's not true(HEAVY SARCASM INTENDED).


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> If you [NBA players] don't care about health and safety, at least care about your pocket book and future finances enough to follow these rules.


How many guys have already been placed back in quarantine for leaving the bubble in order to get fast food??

Do you really think these guys consider the financial consequences associated with following the rules? Keep in mind that Damian Lillard has already voiced his concerns about a group of people (NBA players) coming from an environment _with no rules_ and they still can't follow the rules!

Hey guys: party at the Grand Destino. BYOW


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## Vanilla

That's why they have the snitch hotline though! :grin:


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## PBH

Attending a family wedding = 14 day quarantine.
Dinner at an Atlanta strip club that serves really good food = 10 day quarantine.


Makes sense.


I love the NBA.


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## Vanilla

Or they could just cancel games one game into the season like another “professional” league. 

The bubble concept with strict quarantine guidelines is the only thing that could work. It’s why college football won’t happen this year. At least they won’t finish the season.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> The bubble concept with strict quarantine guidelines is the only thing that could work.


They should have incorporated some nightlife into the bubble. They could have turned Epcot into a strip club with daily testing, etc. Then the players would have had no reason to leave the bubble.

errrr....wait, they go to strip clubs for the food. I forgot.


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## Critter

It's funny with college football where the independents are pretty much SOL with conferences deciding that they and only going to play a conference scheduled like that is going to prevent anything. 

Pro sports are also interesting. I watched some of the Colorado Rockies vs Texas Rangers games over the weekend. The Rangers have fan cutouts sitting in the stands and have pipped in crowed cheering. Just trying to make the best of a bad situation. 

The more that I read about what the NBA is going to do the more laughable it gets. But then the NBA has been a joke for a number of years now.


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## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> It's funny with college football where the independents are pretty much SOL with conferences deciding that they and only going to play a conference scheduled like that is going to prevent anything.
> 
> Pro sports are also interesting. I watched some of the Colorado Rockies vs Texas Rangers games over the weekend. The Rangers have fan cutouts sitting in the stands and have pipped in crowed cheering. Just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
> 
> The more that I read about what the NBA is going to do the more laughable it gets. But then the NBA has been a joke for a number of years now.


The NBA has been ran better than most of the other professional leagues - why is it a joke? They put together the bubble plan so fast - with player and owner support. For the circumstances its a dang good plan. The MLB got into a public crying match about finances, so has the NFL for a bunch of things (the players and Goodell hate eachother).

Of major sports the NBA is one of the best ran. I am in the minority but I love hockey and would say that's the only other league that most everyone stays on the same page.


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## Fowlmouth

"F" the NBA
"F" the NFL
"F" MLB
"F" NASCAR
And "F" anyone that doesn't stand for the National Anthem.


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## Critter

Fowlmouth said:


> "F" the NBA
> "F" the NFL
> "F" MLB
> "F" NASCAR
> And "F" anyone that doesn't stand for the National Anthem.


Now that matches your user name.....

And people thought it was because you like hunting waterfowl..:shock:

But I do have to agree with you except for MLB and NASCAR. I like NASCAR just for the wrecks

What other sport can you watch and go away for a hour and come back and it is the same thing except for soccer.


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## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> Now that matches your user name.....
> 
> And people thought it was because you like hunting waterfowl..:shock:
> 
> But I do have to agree with you except for MLB and NASCAR. I like NASCAR just for the wrecks
> 
> What other sport can you watch and go away for a hour and come back and it is the same thing except for soccer.


Golf.. Desert Baja Racing.. Turtle(or Sloth) Racing.. and... Curling.

There are a few lol. You can just fall asleep for a quick hour, wake up, and be right in the mix :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla

Chicken wings are good man!


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## Dunkem

Now Tiger is kind of back golf is fun to watch again, You ever tried to do to a golf ball what those guys do? Thats some talent. Granted not a physical sport but those guys (most) are in shape.


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## Critter

I agree that all of those playing pro sports are talented and quite capable in their field. 

But the way some tear down the country that gave them the opportunity to make the kind of money that they do just makes me sick. 

If they want to get onto a soapbox and start spouting forth what they want then don't do it on my dime where if I choose to pay money to see a game. They have plenty of opportunities to take it anywhere else and do whatever they want to do. 

It's the whole adage put your money where your mouth is. And quite a few do just that, but then there are those who just want a stage to spout off.


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## Fowlmouth

I'm happy hunting seasons coincide with pro sports schedules. I'm hunting from Sept 1st to the first week in February. I have hunted geese the past several years on Superbowl Sunday. I duck hunt most of the NBA season and don't watch the remainder of it anyway I skip the whole NFL season because of the duck hunt.. The only pro sport I care to watch is the NHL.Go Blackhawks!


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## #1DEER 1-I

Fowlmouth said:


> "F" the NBA
> "F" the NFL
> "F" MLB
> "F" NASCAR
> And "F" anyone that doesn't stand for the National Anthem.


Such a sad simplistic view on the subject. Be more open to others points of view on why they might kneel.

First it was literally a veteran that proposed kneeling:





And other points of view are just as valid as yours. Listen from about the 45 second mark real closely here:


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## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> I agree that all of those playing pro sports are talented and quite capable in their field.
> 
> But the way some tear down the country that gave them the opportunity to make the kind of money that they do just makes me sick.
> 
> If they want to get onto a soapbox and start spouting forth what they want then don't do it on my dime where if I choose to pay money to see a game. They have plenty of opportunities to take it anywhere else and do whatever they want to do.
> 
> It's the whole adage put your money where your mouth is. And quite a few do just that, but then there are those who just want a stage to spout off.


It's so strange how some of you think they are speaking for themselves and not the situations they came from and those that are still stuck there. Lebron is a prime example of putting his money where his mouth is and rising above a terrible situation he grew up in and advocating for positive change for the places like where he grew up for those there. People need to stop being offended by the fact we still have a long way to go on some things in this country. Coming a long way doesn't mean we're there yet.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Also, a nice article in the SL Tribune in regards to the current movements being seen

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2020/07/27/gordon-monson-black-lives/


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## RandomElk16

Clippers team seems out of sorts (mentally, chemistry).

Could bode well for you Jazz fans!


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## Fowlmouth

Fowlmouth said:


> "F" the NBA
> "F" the NFL
> "F" MLB
> "F" NASCAR
> And "F" anyone that doesn't stand for the National Anthem.


----


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## PBH

Lol.


I wonder if Lou Williams had dinner with the Marlins players??


What was that comment from the anonymous MLB player? Oh, right: "I honestly think horny dudes on the road are what's going to bring this down."


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## Vanilla

Fowlmouth, question for you based upon the picture you posted.

Is a multi-millionaire, or even billionaire Jewish person not able to speak out against the atrocities those people have suffered, and the Antisemitism they still suffer today, just because they are rich too? 

Or does your feelings only apply to black people?


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## Fowlmouth

Why? Have you seen a Jewish Millionaire take a knee at a professional sports game? Like I said "F" Anyone that doesn't stand for the National Anthem"


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## RandomElk16

I probably could count on 2 hands how many Nat'l anthems I have watched in entirety on television for sports. Probably all Superbowls too. 


I guess I love Freedom too much to decide how people use it.


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## Vanilla

So we should just focus on the picture of the player kneeling and not the words on the meme? Gotcha... 

I don't particularly like the kneeling for the national anthem myself. I won't ever do it. It is interesting, however, to look at its history. We existed as a country for longer without a national anthem than we have with one. The Star Spangled Banner wasn't made our national anthem until an act of congress in 1931. My grandmother, who is still alive today, lived during a time when this country did not have a national anthem at all. We've had a national anthem BARELY longer than we've given women and black people the right to vote. Barely. 

I love the national anthem. I did not serve in the military, but have a brother and grandfather who did. I feel a close kinship to them and I will admit I get a little misty-eyed every time I hear it. At least when it's done properly. But to have such vitriol towards a people because they are simply asking for our country to live up to the ideals and standards that the anthem and the flag claim to represent? 

Yeah, I don't get that one. I guess "freedom" and constitutional rights mean something different to some than they do to me.


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## Critter

Vanilla said:


> Yeah, I don't get that one. I guess "freedom" and constitutional rights mean something different to some than they do to me.


But how many class hours did you have going over constitutional rights?


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## RandomElk16

Outside of everyone being worried about a pregame thing that most never watch on TV (to Vanilla's comment on one thread most sit on the couch or grab apps even when they do see it)........


THE NBA IS BACK TONIGHT! 0 confirmed cases over last weeks tests. Teams are locked in. Scrimmages went well. 

I am excited to have live sports back. Supercross having 7 rounds in Utah held me over for a bit, but I am antsy. Hopefully the season concludes in a good way.


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## Critter

Once they get on the road I'll say that within a weeks time you will have a dozen or more testing positive. 

Most of the players will be out to any night life that they can find.


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## Vanilla

Critter said:


> Once they get on the road I'll say that within a weeks time you will have a dozen or more testing positive.
> 
> Most of the players will be out to any night life that they can find.


Critter, you've got to follow along! There is no road for them. They are in a bubble at the Disney property in Florida. All teams are there, and they'll play in front of no fans. It has been as strict as you can reasonably expect it to be. The NBA did this right. It's why they will be the only professional sport to finish their season.


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## Critter

Vanilla said:


> Critter, you've got to follow along! There is no road for them. They are in a bubble at the Disney property in Florida. All teams are there, and they'll play in front of no fans. It has been as strict as you can reasonably expect it to be. The NBA did this right. It's why they will be the only professional sport to finish their season.


Do you really expect for a lot of these players to stay in a bubble?

If they do stay in the bubble they will be importing the strippers into it for their enjoyment.


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## PBH

Critter -- players have already left the bubble to attend strip clubs (for dinner) in Atlanta. 

It's a good concept for people that can follow rules. How this will play out with athletes used to not having any rules at all will be interesting.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> Do you really expect for a lot of these players to stay in a bubble?
> 
> If they do stay in the bubble they will be importing the strippers into it for their enjoyment.


There is a very strict protocol for how a player can leave and return including a 14 day quarantine if they leave and they must be tested daily outside the bubble. See what happens when you handle things right like the NBA?


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## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> Critter -- players have already left the bubble to attend strip clubs (for dinner) in Atlanta.
> 
> It's a good concept for people that can follow rules. How this will play out with athletes used to not having any rules at all will be interesting.


And they caught him and he's quarantined for 14 days and will be missing games because of it.


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## PBH

#1 -- you are incorrect.

The quarantine period in the NBA for having dinner at a strip club in Atlanta is 10 days.
The quarantine period for attending a family wedding is 14 days.


Those restrictions on how players can leave only apply to those following the rules. There have already been instances of players leaving without following protocol. The NBA is not immune from "horny dudes" screwing things up.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> Critter -- players have already left the bubble to attend strip clubs (for dinner) in Atlanta.


A partially true statement, but context matters. He didn't leave the bubble to go to a strip club in another state. He left for a family matter, and while out on an excused absence, went to get what are apparently the best chicken wings on the planet.

To which they required a negative test and a 10 day quarantine upon his re-entry.

This won't be perfect, as nothing in the world ever is, but if you want to figure out how to make a sports season work in a country that otherwise doesn't give a crap about the pandemic and is doing very little to help curb it or help the economy, then look at the NBA.

Which sucks, because I'd way rather watch NFL and college football games than the NBA, but I will take what I can get.


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## RandomElk16

I have known a few people who got Corona, and their "back to work" wasn't near as strict as the NBA. 

They don't do two negative test for normal folks. These are folks who work in food and in healthcare also. 


The NBA has done a solid job with their protocols. You had a few players with corona who came to the bubble late and STILL had 0 positive tests last week. I would consider that pretty successful. 



This is exactly why I miss sports. I am so sick of Corona and Joe Biden and Riots... I am sick of this negative world being talked about 24/7. I feel like I live at CNN. So for those of you who live and breathe that, good for you. 

For the rest of us - thank goodness we have something better to watch and trash talk can be about something other than masks.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> He left for a family matter, and while out on an excused absence, went to get what are apparently the best chicken wings on the planet.
> 
> To which they required a negative test and a 10 day quarantine upon his re-entry.


10 days.

But the other guy who asked to go to _his sister's_ wedding was told he'd have a 14 day quarantine.

Hmmm.....unauthorized chicken wing dinner at the strip club vs. authorized family wedding.

I. Don't. Get it.

Oh. Wait. This is all part of the de-construction of the nuclear family. Now it all makes sense...


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> I. Don't. Get it.


You're over-thinking it way too much. The amount of exposure (no pun intended) at these two "events" you describe are not equal. There is no statement here about what is a more worthwhile event to attend. It is simply about equating risk based upon potential exposure.

Don't overthink it. Better yet, don't think at all. We don't want you to hurt yourself!


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## PBH

ouch. My head hurts.

OK -- I'll buy the exposure rate argument.

I'll also buy the "don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness" argument as well. So will other players.

In the mean time, Kelly got an 8 game suspension for _missing_ Bregman. It was all based on intent, which is subjective.

this is turning out to be the best year in sports that we've had in a long, long time! And we've hardly had any games!


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## Vanilla

A classic baseball “fight.” 

Haven’t they shut that league down yet?


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## Catherder

Hey, the Jazz won! I was working, how did they look? I checked part way through and they were down big. Must have had a good second half. 

It is nice to have some real sports around. Makes one feel almost normal.


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## olibooger

Catherder said:


> Hey, the Jazz won! I was working, how did they look? I checked part way through and they were down big. Must have had a good second half.
> 
> It is nice to have some real sports around. Makes one feel almost normal.


They kneeled for the anthem. 
They lost. 
Both teams lost.


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## Critter

There was a basket ball game tonight?

I heard the Gobert and Mitchell started coughing and half of the Pelican's team left the court.


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## #1DEER 1-I

olibooger said:


> They kneeled for the anthem.
> They lost.
> Both teams lost.


Nah, the Jazz won and used the freedom that flag and anthem stand for. Discuss the message being discussed and not the kneeling. I get there's strong feelings from all. Stand proud like you like and give them room to use their freedom as they see fit.


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## Catherder

So, uh, was there basketball, or did the game morph into a political program?


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## #1DEER 1-I

Catherder said:


> So, uh, was there basketball, or did the game morph into a political program?


Great game, the Jazz won on a pass from Donovan to Rudy with 5 seconds left, Rudy was fouled and hit both free throws that won the game. Rudy made the first basket of a real game in the bubble, and had the winning free throws to seal the first win in the bubble.....it almost couldn't be more scripted after everything that happened in March lol.


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## Vanilla

Watched just a bit of each game tonight. Both were VERY sloppy basketball. Bout what I expected.


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## Kwalk3

It was sloppy, it was ugly at times, but it was NBA basketball, and it mattered. I’m happy it’s back.

And Jazz Win!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## #1DEER 1-I

Kwalk3 said:


> It was sloppy, it was ugly at times, but it was NBA basketball, and it mattered. I'm happy it's back.
> 
> And Jazz Win!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sloppy at times for sure, but I missed it more than I thought I did with how good of a game it was down the stretch.


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## Jedidiah

Glad to see sports' seasons starting right when they're least likely to make money, with their SJW stance. Go ahead and die, NFL, NBA, MLB.

Edit: take NASCAR with you.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Jedidiah said:


> Glad to see sports' seasons starting right when they're least likely to make money, with their SJW stance. Go ahead and die, NFL, NBA, MLB.
> 
> Edit: take NASCAR with you.


What do you mean least likely to make money? They have to play the games for the advertising and TV dollars. For instance. The NBA has a 10 year $24.5 billion TV contract already agreed to, the ratings won't matter on those games, the contract is already agreed to over 10 years. You not watching isn't hurting all that much. They simply have to hit a certain number of games to get the agreed to money. It's part of the reason the NBA is doing 8 "regular season" games before playoffs is to hit that quota. There's no fans anyway right now, TV contracts are always the lions share of the revenue, and it's already locked up so long as games are played and they fill their quotas. See the NBA would have lost around $2 billion on playoffs alone in TV money had they not done their bubble. The bubble is costing around $150 million. But that $2 billion in contracted TV money that's going to pour in is worth it. Also, to all of those of you boycotting professional sports, you aren't hurting the athletes, you're hurting the ticket seller, the food vendor, the apparel store clerk. Thousands of jobs depend on professional sports in this country, it goes well beyond those rich guys who make it all go.


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## Jedidiah

I'll boycott until they all fail.


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## Critter

Jedidiah said:


> Glad to see sports' seasons starting right when they're least likely to make money, with their SJW stance. Go ahead and die, NFL, NBA, MLB.
> 
> Edit: take NASCAR with you.





Jedidiah said:


> I'll boycott until they all fail.


Tell us how you really feel


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## PBH

The Jazz have a good starting 5, and really good 6th man. After that, they've got nothing at all! That worries me.

the game was OK. Typical Jazz. 

I was really disappointed with the broadcasts. If you read any articles, they'll tell you about hearing the players and the coaches and other sounds of the game. But the fans still don't get that. All the mics for the TV broadcast are picking up the pumped in fake crowd noise (which is really weird and off), the broadcasters, and the music. I wish they'd just turn that crap off! I'd like to hear what the players are saying. I'd like to hear the coaches yelling. I'd like to hear the bench. I'd like to hear the off-night players in the bleachers cheering.

But you know that isn't going to happen. We'll continue to get pumped in crowd noise, and Bolerjack coming off 5 months of standing in front of a mirror practicing cliches. Either that, or a TNT crew that wants to talk more about the next game. 
Ugh.


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> But you know that isn't going to happen. We'll continue to get pumped in crowd noise, and Bolerjack coming off 5 months of standing in front of a mirror practicing cliches. Either that, or a TNT crew that wants to talk more about the next game.
> Ugh.


Oh, man, I bet Bolerjack was unbearable yesterday afternoon. Was it Thurl or Harpring with him? I like Thurl but Harpring can stay at the Chick-fil-a that he can't stop talking about.


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## PBH

I didnt' see any of the pre-game. I listened to the first couple minutes on Sirius driving home, then turned on the TV as soon as I walked in the house. I also did not watch the halftime show - I never do. So, I don't know the real answer to your question.

I never saw any of the 3 (Bolerjack, Harpring, Big T) on TV - although all 3 were part of the broadcast crew. I wonder if they were all remote? I'm pretty sure Harpring was, because any time Bolerjack asked him a question, there would be a brief pause before Harpring answered. Also, there were numerous times that Thurl and Harpring would both try to talk, and Thurl would say "go ahead Matt" indiciating that they could not see each other, and were basically on a conference call.

They also would throw things over to Kristin Kenney -- but again, never showed her on the TV. I'm guessing she was also working remote.

I could be completely wrong - but that's how it seemed to me.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> Oh, man, I bet Bolerjack was unbearable yesterday afternoon. Was it Thurl or Harpring with him? I like Thurl but Harpring can stay at the Chick-fil-a that he can't stop talking about.


I was ready for Jazz basketball yesterday, but I wasn't mentally prepared for Boler. I watched the TNT broadcast. I believe it's Thurl that's with him in Orlando, so at least that is something of a silver lining.


----------



## PBH

I used to like Harpring. I actually think he had a promising career in broadcasting, particularly due to his experience as a player. Where I think he went wrong was with his partner. I think Bolerjack ruined him. Bolerjack has a good voice - but he is NOT a basketball person (obviously). So rather that pay attention to the game in front of him, he watches the little monitor and talks about things that [he thinks] he knows. Football. Food. Etc. He has his little catchphrase cliches that he can't wait to use, and attempts to use them at poor times. Just last night Thurl had to tell Bolerjack "too early Craig". Matt has followed in Bolerjacks shadow, and learned all those poor traits from him. That's too bad. Matt has a lot of basketball knowledge and personal experience that provide a nice perspective -- he shows this often during broadcasts, and is much better at explaining what might have happened, and why. Bolerjack, in the meantime, is watching someone in the crowd eat an ice cream cone, and makes a comment about Ingles getting a technical foul - but never explains why. We, as viewers, are left to wonder why, and can only reason that it was really a defensive 3-second call. A few minutes later Boler will hear a whistle and say that player X was called for "over the back", which isn't a foul -- contact is a foul. But, who knows? What we do know is that Bolerjack is already calling for overtime.

Too early Craig. Too early.


----------



## Kwalk3

PBH said:


> I used to like Harpring. I actually think he had a promising career in broadcasting, particularly due to his experience as a player. Where I think he went wrong was with his partner. I think Bolerjack ruined him. Bolerjack has a good voice - but he is NOT a basketball person (obviously). So rather that pay attention to the game in front of him, he watches the little monitor and talks about things that [he thinks] he knows. Football. Food. Etc. He has his little catchphrase cliches that he can't wait to use, and attempts to use them at poor times. Just last night Thurl had to tell Bolerjack "too early Craig". Matt has followed in Bolerjacks shadow, and learned all those poor traits from him. That's too bad. Matt has a lot of basketball knowledge and personal experience that provide a nice perspective -- he shows this often during broadcasts, and is much better at explaining what might have happened, and why. Bolerjack, in the meantime, is watching someone in the crowd eat an ice cream cone, and makes a comment about Ingles getting a technical foul - but never explains why. We, as viewers, are left to wonder why, and can only reason that it was really a defensive 3-second call. But, who knows. What we do know is that Bolerjack is already calling for overtime.
> 
> Too early Craig. Too early.


Boler does love some free basketball


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> I used to like Harpring. I actually think he had a promising career in broadcasting, particularly due to his experience as a player. Where I think he went wrong was with his partner. I think Bolerjack ruined him.


I heartily agree with this. I liked Harpring as a player and initially, I don't remember him irritating me in his role as color commentator. It seems that the last few years, he gets off on tangents, just like Boler and I'm internally screaming at the TV for them to shut up and get back to the game. Maybe they just have been together too long and Harpring would do better with a different broadcast mate.

Another one I wish they'd bring back to TV more is Booner. He makes Locke broadcasts almost listenable when he is on and explaining things.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH- I believe all local broadcasts are remote.


----------



## PBH

wow.

That was ugly.



but, like all good shooters, you just keep shooting. The problem is that Niang isn't a good shooter. So why does he just keep shooting? Ugh.

'Course, it all starts with defense - right? Or, in the Jazz case, it never starts because we don't play defense.


The Jazz have a problem. I think it started when Favors wasn't re-signed.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> wow.
> 
> That was ugly.
> 
> but, like all good shooters, you just keep shooting. The problem is that Niang isn't a good shooter. So why does he just keep shooting? Ugh.
> 
> 'Course, it all starts with defense - right? Or, in the Jazz case, it never starts because we don't play defense.
> 
> The Jazz have a problem. I think it started when Favors wasn't re-signed.


It could be a short run in the "bubble". You are right about the defense and it isn't just Niang laying the bricks.

It will be interesting to see how they do tonight. The Lakers have the West about wrapped up so I'm not sure what their motivation level will be.


----------



## RandomElk16

Catherder said:


> It could be a short run in the "bubble". You are right about the defense and it isn't just Niang laying the bricks.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how they do tonight. The Lakers have the West about wrapped up so I'm not sure what their motivation level will be.


LA has played pretty poorly thus far. Curious to see if they are coasting for the playoffs or if they actually try and get some rhythm. Could be an interesting game for sure.


----------



## PBH

Catherder said:


> The Lakers have the West about wrapped up so I'm not sure what their motivation level will be.





RandomElk16 said:


> LA has played pretty poorly thus far. .... Could be an interesting game for sure.


It's not good when you are depending on other teams motivation level and poor play in order to have an interesting game.

You are correct. It isn't just Niang laying bricks. But Niang was 0-6 on Thursday and 3-10 on Saturday. That's 3-16. That's 18% shooting. That's not good. He should not be shooting as much as he is -- and that is a problem. When we are relying on Niang to provide offense off the bench - that is a problem!

What will be interesting tonight will be to see whether LeBron or AD hits 40 points first.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> What will be interesting tonight will be to see whether LeBron or AD hits 40 points first.


That's fine as that would at least mean a competitive game.

What is equally plausible is they get 25 each through 3 quarters and then stay on the bench in the 4th quarter of a blowout win. :-?


----------



## Vanilla

I hope nobody is surprised that this is wildly inconsistent basketball. It will start looking like “normal” NBA basketball about the conference Finals. I usually enjoy playoff basketball, but not looking forward to the slop fest. And I fully expected it.


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> I hope nobody is surprised that this is wildly inconsistent basketball. It will start looking like "normal" NBA basketball about the conference Finals. I usually enjoy playoff basketball, but not looking forward to the slop fest. And I fully expected it.


Well, when you haven't had pizza for 4 months, even Little Caesars tastes pretty good afterwards. These next 6 games will be pretty "uneven", but I think once the playoffs begin, they will be much better.


----------



## Vanilla

Catherder said:


> Well, when you haven't had pizza for 4 months, even Little Caesars tastes pretty good afterwards. These next 6 games will be pretty "uneven", but I think once the playoffs begin, they will be much better.


Bingo! It's been fun to watch a little live ball, even if it's been sloppy. Listening to the radio, and reading some comments, it seems like people are surprised that the Jazz (or anyone else) have looked inconsistent.

I don't listen to the radio often, but was in my car in the morning this morning and listened to a local show talking about how the Jazz are doomed after OKC and how the Lakers are no longer one of the favorites after their performance against the Raptors. They're two games in after 4 months of basically being able to do nothing. The world will be okay, and it will eventually look like "real" basketball. These things take time, for many different reasons.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla - I like your optimism.

I can't share it. The Jazz just aren't at the same level as some of those other teams (Toronto, Milwaukee, Houston).

We saw the issue against New Orleans -- we couldn't stop their guards. OKC saw the same thing, and Chris Paul licked his chops, then exploited us all night long. He won't be the last guard to torch us. Maybe tonight we play well and win - who knows....but Houston along with Hardin and Westbrook, is sitting back just licking their chops with anticipation of playing us.


This isn't Stan's Burgers after a week on Powell. This is a peanutbutter sandwich after a week on Powell -- and you don't have any milk to help swallow that thick sludge...


----------



## Vanilla

Oh, don't mistake my statement that they will get more consistent with me thinking they will contend for a title. They were a fringe second tier team with Bojan, without him I don't see them getting out of the first round. 

They have a number of good players, they don't have anyone that is great. I think Rudy was the closest thing they had to great, but I think this year his impact has shown to be closer to good than it is to great. Donovan might get there, but he's got some ways to go. 

If you don't have a great player, you better have a pretty special team overall to overcome that in the NBA. Great players bring championships. It's very rare a team wins it all without a truly great player. And those teams were pretty special.


----------



## RandomElk16

There have been some really good games still. These guys ramp up pretty fast. 

The Jazz just need that "umph". They need some dang intensity-that's when they win. 

More Miller Motor Sports and less Sunday Sacrament.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> This isn't Stan's Burgers after a week on Powell.


Tell me more about Stan's burgers.


----------



## PBH

Catherder said:


> Tell me more about Stan's burgers.


It's a greasy hamburger joint in the gas station at Hanksville. The food isn't great -- except when you've just spent some time camping on Powell (hunting the Henry's, exploring the Mars Desert Research Station), and you're headed back to civilization. Then the food is pretty darn good.


----------



## Vanilla

The correct answer to PBH’s question would be Anthony Davis.


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> The correct answer to PBH's question would be Anthony Davis.


Welp, it was sort of competitive. 21 turnovers, 27% from 3, the "closeness" is surprising in itself.


----------



## Vanilla

Forty three 3-point attempts! 43. 

James Harden calls that a Tuesday.


----------



## PBH

how many times did the Jazz pass up open layups in favor of a [wide ope] 3-point shot? I can count 4 off the top of my head. We missed all 4 attempts. Instead of 8 free points, we took 0.

We lost the game by 8 points.

Analytics. Analytics continue to show that a layup is _still_ a better shot than a 3-pointer. I just sit and scratch my head with this trend of passing up "gimme" points for a statistically worse shot.

So, we lost in an ugly turnover game against a team that we match up well against.

Next up? Memphis. Ja Morant is currently salivating and wondering if he can top 30 points. Even so, Jazz should win this one.


----------



## caddis8

43 is too many- especially for a team that is 30% from three. Granted, you can score more points by making threes, but there are no points for a missed 3. And 3 pointers taken by a mediocre shooting isn't great. Pull up three by a good shooter (Harden- as much as I can't stand the guy he's a great shot, Curry if he were playing, Bojan can) is an ok shot. I don't like the shot personally as I think it's too fast and not in rhythm as I'm kind of old school thought. 

But to PBH's point, passing up a layup for a lower % shot is craziness.


The 3rd quarter was painful to watch. 6 turnovers, poor defense, bad passes, bad choices made the Lakers look better than they were. Jazz were playing actually decent up till that point. Jazz couldn't handle the physicality and pressure and then things went bad and it was just ugly. Slow Moe Joe looked excatly that. Lost and slow. Teams are keying on the lob to Rudy, so it's going to have a wrinkle in the lob. People extend the pick and roll or force Gobert higher then the help can come and block the lob. Or the help comes early and blocks the lob and Joe looks confused as the other team is running in transition. 

If Quinn's system is built on defense, then they're sunk because they're not a great defensive team. Or a good offensive team. There are too many unforced errors that lead to bad turnovers- that is not a good offensive team. Forcing shots that have no business being shot- not good offensive team. Clarkson has been rough the last couple of games. And he can't guard a fencepost.


----------



## PBH

Quinn Snyder said:


> "I'm happy we got up 40 threes, *we're going to have to make more shots to win* but I thought we had really good energy and activity on defense," Snyder said.


Philosophy has changed. It's no longer about defense.
Snyder has been hanging out a little too much with Boone.


----------



## RandomElk16

Lakers rule Jazz drool.



In other news: 0 positive tests again. This bubble is working as far as that goes. 


Mentally though... I think teams will break down. They talked about this next season and I don't see how it works. Best guess would be multiple bubbles where they do "tournaments" and then you change to a different bubble. 

Break the league into 4 groups:
1W
2W
1E
2E


Somehow you create 4-8 bubbles at a time where you play 2 games against in conference and 1 against out. Then rotate. I dunno. 

All I know is these dudes won't move to Disney for 8 months.


----------



## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> All I know is these dudes won't move to Disney for 8 months wihtout the princess strip club opening up.


Fixed it for you.

Another guard torching the Jazz. But, the good news, we appear (for the moment) to be outscoring the grizz (for the moment).


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> Fixed it for you.
> 
> Another guard torching the Jazz. But, the good news, we appear (for the moment) to be outscoring the grizz (for the moment).


This team has been one of the more frustrating I've ever watched. Bench is just terrible, and they're either good or really bad. No in between.


----------



## Kwalk3

#1DEER 1-I said:


> This team has been one of the more frustrating I've ever watched. Bench is just terrible, and they're either good or really bad. No in between.


Bench is terrible, and that is amplified in a big way when Clarkson is not scoring effectively as he has since he was traded here. If he can get that figured out, I think things will improve.

Niang has not been able to hit the broad side of a minivan. Mudiay has reverted to the Mudiay that was such a disappointment in Denver and NY. Tony Bradley is doing his best impression of being a "virtual" player just like all the virtual fans at the games.

I am glad(I think?) to see Tucker, and Juwan Morgan getting a few minutes.


----------



## Catherder

Looks like Joe showed up today. (working, only saw box score and espn feed).
That helped a little.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> Looks like Joe showed up today. (working, only saw box score and espn feed).
> That helped a little.


Timing was incredible too. He was feeling it and looking for his shot. Hit some massive 3's to keep distance today. Conley continued to look good today too. Looks a lot more comfortable to me.

They played really well offensively today.


----------



## PBH

they played well offensively, as expected they should against a struggling team like Memphis.

On the other hand, they gave up 63 points to guards. This will kill us come the playoffs.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> On the other hand, they gave up 63 points to guards. This will kill us come the playoffs.


If the season ended today, they'd be playing Houston. They don't have to worry about Houston's guards scoring a lot of points on them.

(ha!)


----------



## Catherder

Hey, we can handle Houston. Remember when we last played them and Bogdanovic hit the buzzer beating, uh, .....................,oh,...........

nevermind.


----------



## PBH

conley, gobert, mitchell, o'neale -- all out for Friday's game.



What's the point?


Can the league afford stars sitting out? If they won't play back-to-back games, or the schedule is simply too tight -- then by all means just cancel some games. If the teams don't think these games are important, neither will the fans...


...I think I'll enjoy my Friday without watching the NBA.


----------



## Vanilla

I was surprised to see that all of them would be out for one game. They do have 3 games in 4 nights, but they should be pretty fresh still, and I think I'd want them to get minutes every night to ensure they are in shape for when it really matters. 

But what do I know? All those people are getting paid many hundreds of thousands to tens of millions every year to make those decisions, and I'm not.


----------



## Catherder

Maybe they are tanking to avoid Houston? -Ov-


----------



## Vanilla

They shouldn’t be tanking to get OKC after what they showed the other day.


----------



## Kwalk3

If anything, I hope today is an opportunity for Clarkson and Ingles to continue to get more comfortable. Ingles looked good last game, but the Jazz really need some consistency out of those two. Once you get past them, it barely looks like a g-league roster.


----------



## Catherder

The JV team at least hung around the whole game against the Spurs starters. 

Maybe there is a glimmer of hope in that.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> The JV team at least hung around the whole game against the Spurs starters.
> 
> Maybe there is a glimmer of hope in that.


Agreed. Kinda fun to be able to see what some of them can offer. Good for them to get some minutes.

Also, what happened to Niang? I thought he would stand out playing with this group, but he looked lost, even compared to guys that haven't sniffed the court all season.


----------



## Catherder

Kwalk3 said:


> Also, what happened to Niang? I thought he would stand out playing with this group, but he looked lost, even compared to guys that haven't sniffed the court all season.


I'm not sure. He has stunk it up during the entire "bubble" experience. On the morning commute radio segment, an announcer suggested he was banged up. I hope that is the case.


----------



## PBH

so, the NBA has gone full throttle BLM.


We need to get another movement started. NBAGM
NBA Games Matter.




Look, if the players don't care, why do the fans? Today we have Mitchell out, along with Doncic, and Porzingis. Clearly, these games mean absolutely nothing.

If players are needing "rest" then we are playing too many games. Cut the games. Somehow make the games important. What's that saying that college uses all the time? "Every game counts". Not so in the NBA.

Anyone know what the ratings are like? they can't be good -- I mean, half the games are in the middle of the day (with half the stars sitting out!).


----------



## Vanilla

It's just 4 more days of this PBH. You'll survive.


----------



## PBH

Kwalk3 said:


> Also, what happened to Niang?


Nothing. This is the same Niang we've had all along. He kind of makes you wish you had Rodney Hood.

(ok, maybe not. but maybe?)

(and so, it begins: Niang starts this game 3-3......he'll never pass the ball the rest of the game!)

(Ed Davis with an assist!! what is happening with this world???)

(doh, there goes clank #1. So it begins....)


----------



## PBH

ugh. How does that even happen?

38 points
32 points
30 points
...
14 points



Only in a Jazz uniform.

#NBAGDM


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> ugh. How does that even happen?
> 
> 38 points
> 32 points
> 30 points
> ...
> 14 points
> 
> Only in a Jazz uniform.
> 
> #NBAGDM


It ain't rocket science.

1. The starters we played were better than the starters they played. 
2. Our scrubs were able to at least hang with a mix of their starters and scrubs for a quarter.
3. Our scrubs couldn't hang with their starters in the 4th. 
4. Our scrubs are simply not very good.

Since I expect more tankage in the last game, and then the playoffs begin, I'm left wondering if we will win another meaningful game this year.


----------



## PBH

Catherder said:


> Since I expect more tankage in the last game, and then the playoffs begin, I'm left wondering if we will win *another meaningful game* this year.


_another_?? What _meaningful_ game have we won this year? There hasn't been a _meaningful_ game played yet this year. That's my whole gripe! None of this matters. From October 2019 --> August 2020 there hasn't been a game that has meant didley squat!

The players don't want to play 82 games. They don't want to play back-to-back games. They don't want to play whole games - they usually coast until the 4th quarter.

OK. rant over. I'm going to go read the articles now...


----------



## PBH

Catherder said:


> It ain't rocket science.
> 
> 1. The starters we played were better than the starters they played.
> -- Utah outscored Dallas 38 - 30 in the first
> quarter.
> 2. Our scrubs were able to at least hang with a mix of their starters and scrubs for a quarter.
> --Utah outscored Dallas 32-24 in the second
> quarter.
> 3. Our scrubs couldn't hang with their starters in the 4th.
> --we gave up 34 points in the 3rd and 4th
> 
> 4. Our scrubs are simply not very good.
> --this is correct


Our bench was an overall negative in the +/- with Niang (!!) the only positive. That's been the problem all year -- our bench cannot keep up.

Obviously, Dallas mad some adjustments at the half, while Utah did not. Or, maybe Utah made adjustments that didn't work? either way, this was a problem.

Once again, guard play killed us. We gave up 84 combined points to guards.

O'Neale, Ingles, Clarkson -- they would make a really good group coming off the bench. The Jazz have some holes they need to fill in their starting lineup before next season.

OK. Rant really over.


----------



## Vanilla

Well ladies and gents, hopefully you're enjoying the NBA bubble, because it looks like that is the only sport you're going to get this year.


----------



## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> Well ladies and gents, hopefully you're enjoying the NBA bubble, because it looks like that is the only sport you're going to get this year.


Now, all the BYU football fans can add, "If it wasn't for COVID-19, we would be National Champs" to their list of excuses for another winless year . . . :smile:


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> Well ladies and gents, hopefully you're enjoying the NBA bubble, because it looks like that is the only sport you're going to get this year.


I think I will enjoy it even more after 5 more games and the lackluster Jazz are done. (less of a rooting interest, and can just sit back and watch).


----------



## Catherder

CPAjeff said:


> Now, all the BYU football fans can add, "If it wasn't for COVID-19, we would be National Champs" to their list of excuses for another winless year . . . :smile:


You do realize they will be boasting that they were undefeated this year. They may even hang a banner.


----------



## CPAjeff

Catherder said:


> You do realize they will be boasting that they were undefeated this year. They may even hang a banner.


Very true, the irony that is BYU sports.


----------



## Vanilla

CPAjeff said:


> Now, all the BYU football fans can add, "If it wasn't for COVID-19, we would be National Champs" to their list of excuses for another winless year . . . :smile:


Ha! BYU and Navy are playing for the national championship on Labor Day.


----------



## Packout

The Jazz games are a little hard to watch. The lack of energy in building makes the game feels off. Or maybe it is that I dislike 2020- a lot. 

However, I have enjoyed watching some baseball and seeing the Astros get some deserved treatment.


----------



## Brettski7

Packout said:


> The Jazz games are a little hard to watch. The lack of energy in building makes the game feels off. Or maybe it is that I dislike 2020- a lot.
> 
> However, I have enjoyed watching some baseball and seeing the Astros get some deserved treatment.


That lack of energy is likely having a huge effect on the teams gameplay also. People feed off energy. If it's just dead in there, motivation dies a little also and it doesn't feel right, feels more like a practice or something. Remember these guys feed off people worshipping and cheering for them etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PBH

Brettski7 said:


> That lack of energy is likely having a huge effect on the teams gameplay also. People feed off energy. If it's just dead in there, motivation dies a little also and it doesn't feel right, feels more like a practice or something.


I don't think Damian Lillard needs the fans to motivate him.

We've seen other players in the past that also had a competitive fire inside them that burned from playing the game, and not from fans. Guys like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. While Lillard may not be at that same level, he certainly has that fire. He's fun to watch.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Well ladies and gents, hopefully you're enjoying the NBA bubble, because it looks like that is the only sport you're going to get this year.


I've actually enjoyed watching Tony Finau and the PGA so far. For those that didn't watch the PGA Championship, Morikawa showed some serious grit, and fire. That guy held himself in check until the right time (hole 16) then unleashed an incredible shot that Finau and DeChambeau both failed at. This kid is going to be fun to watch in the future.


----------



## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> I don't think Damian Lillard needs the fans to motivate him.
> 
> We've seen other players in the past that also had a competitive fire inside them that burned from playing the game, and not from fans. Guys like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. While Lillard may not be at that same level, he certainly has that fire. He's fun to watch.


When did you see those guys play in an NBA bubble with no fans?

I kid, but I was able to watch a LOT of Kobe - He loved the crowd. He loved the NOISE.

I don't know if silence would be more weird than the funky crowd noise they pump in or not lol. Either way I hope the playoffs get some intensity. It's been interesting because they can't even trash talk the same because the refs can hear EVERYTHING so that is even lower than normal.

We can't pretend it isn't different. But - it's still sports.


----------



## Vanilla

It's definitely different in the bubble than anything anyone involved is used to. That said, the NBA has ALWAYS lacked intensity in the regular season. There is no difference there. Teams have glided through the regular season for decades now. 

NBA regular season basketball is almost unwatchable. You get some interesting games along the way, and some times teams come motivated and actually put 40 minutes of effort in along the way, but that is the minority, and that is no new or unique to the bubble. You're just putting a 4 month layoff on top of already meaningless games. 

NBA playoff basketball is always fun to watch, and I suspect that once again, the bubble will be no different.


----------



## Vanilla

PS- Damian Lillard is one of the most fun athletes to watch play. That guy has had a chip on his shoulder from the first time I watched him at Weber State and that chip has only grown larger. Such a fun player to watch!


----------



## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> When did you see those guys play in an NBA bubble with no fans?


We don't need to. Their personalities showed that they were on the court to win every single night. Look at their histories -- Kobe was known for being very hard on teammates even at practice. He wasn't their to have fun and dink around. He didn't need the crowd to motivate him to play hard. He looked forward to playing _against_ the "best" in the NBA -- rather than _with_.


----------



## Vanilla

You suffer from revisionist history, PBH. I get it. We all think the previous generation/era was better, tougher, etc..etc..etc. 

But it doesn't mean it is true.


----------



## PBH

Lol. That's funny. And probably true.

But I do like Lillard. He plays like the previous generation. 

(is it Saturday yet?)


----------



## CPAjeff

Thoughts on the match-up with the Nuggets in the first round?


Personally, I think the Jazz leave the bubble sooner than they hoped. I don't see them getting more than one win from this series.


----------



## Kwalk3

CPAjeff said:


> Thoughts on the match-up with the Nuggets in the first round?
> 
> Personally, I think the Jazz leave the bubble sooner than they hoped. I don't see them getting more than one win from this series.


I think they'll win a few games. Denver is a great team and I expect them to win the series, but it should be competitive.

I am grateful that we don't have to suffer through another playoff exit at the hands of Houston this year.

I am really excited to watch the other matchups. Hou-OKC should have plenty of drama, Blazers(TBD) v Lakers should also be entertaining.


----------



## Critter

Seeing as the Nuggets swept them during the season I don't see much hope for the Jazz. 

They should of been playing a lot better at the restart and their poor play will continue.


----------



## RandomElk16

Nuggets match up great with the Jazz - who are now missing a critical piece. 

I don't think the series goes far. Nuggets should be motivated to hurry out of there to prep for the Clippers.


----------



## wyoming2utah

CPAjeff said:


> Thoughts on the match-up with the Nuggets in the first round?
> 
> Personally, I think the Jazz leave the bubble sooner than they hoped. I don't see them getting more than one win from this series.


The Nuggets are the matchup the Jazz wanted and feel is the best for them...

....I think they just want out of the bubble.


----------



## PBH

#BOTP

ugh.


Playoff basketball -- at 11:30am Monday.

Who's going to be able to watch? I would typically record a game -- but when it's played at 11:30am, there will be plenty of opportunity to know the outcome long before I get home to watch some TV.


TV ratings on these games has got to be horrible.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> ugh.
> 
> Playoff basketball -- at 11:30am Monday.
> 
> Who's going to be able to watch? I would typically record a game -- but when it's played at 11:30am, there will be plenty of opportunity to know the outcome long before I get home to watch some TV.
> 
> TV ratings on these games has got to be horrible.


Won't you be hunting?

I largely agree, but I do have to admit that March madness is kind of fun in that you get to follow games while you work. I think this will be somewhat similar. As the playoff rounds proceed, those odd times will lessen.

Bummer I don't see the Jazz making later rounds.


----------



## PBH

Cat -- how do you keep getting all the TOTP?


I won't be hunting on Monday. We typically wait until the second weekend to head out on our main camping trip. We're going to hit a spot here close to home Saturday morning, then I'll probably end up pulling some network wire in the new house Saturday afternoon / Sunday. Gotta get some stuff in place before it's too late...


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> Cat -- how do you keep getting all the TOTP?


IDK, I usually don't get very many, like Nilla bean and Tushycake. I'm going fishing though in a few minutes, so you guys can get the next one.

Hope the home improvement goes quickly and well.


----------



## PBH

anybody know a good way to stream the Jazz today? I have no Dish / Direct TV account...


----------



## Vanilla

If the Jazz play a playoff series and nobody ever gets to watch a game, did it actually happen? 

The NBA has clearly spoken on how interested they are in a Utah-Denver playoff series.


----------



## Critter

PBH said:


> anybody know a good way to stream the Jazz today? I have no Dish / Direct TV account...


There is bound to be a radio station carrying it. It is on ESPN on TV. So if you have cable you should have it.


----------



## PBH

...or cable....
:noidea:


1280 the zone: due to blackout restrictions....


gawd. I guess I'll just have to work, and watch the box score.


----------



## PBH

bummer. Maybe chalk that one up to home court advantage. 


Too bad we didn't get to watch Mitchell in his best performance as an NBA player, even in a loss.


----------



## Catherder

Sounds like it was a good game, as I was a schlub following along with the ESPN feed at work when I could. 

I don't think Denver can keep shooting 53% from 3, but then there were things like Donavans performance and stealing minutes using Juwan Morgan that I don't think the Jazz can reliably replicate either. If Conley can get back before the series is either done or out of hand, that could make a difference too.


----------



## Vanilla

Watched off and on throughout the game as I was getting a project done. It was very entertaining. 

Mitchell disappeared in OT. Nobody else is there to step up if he isn't hitting on all cylinders.


----------



## caddis8

Good Game. 

Overtime was horrid. More turnovers than points in OT is a guaranteed loss. Not going to lead to a win. Joe couldn't guard Murray, but they kept trying it. Didn't try anything different when he was torching them.


----------



## Kwalk3

Mitchell was the reason the Jazz were in the game, and I hate to put too much stock into a single posession, but that 8 second turnover by Mitchell under 2 minutes was the game changer IMO. They were up 4, turned it over and Murray hit a 3 and swung the momentum. Still thought it was a great/entertaining game. OT was rough enough that I turned it off.


----------



## caddis8

Kwalk3 said:


> Mitchell was the reason the Jazz were in the game, and I hate to put too much stock into a single posession, but that 8 second turnover by Mitchell under 2 minutes was the game changer IMO. They were up 4, turned it over and Murray hit a 3 and swung the momentum. Still thought it was a great/entertaining game. OT was rough enough that I turned it off.


OT and score did not reflect how good the game was. 8 seconds was silly, but it is a silly turnover also. Murray was crazy at the end of the game. Gobert did ok, but he has to figure out how to defend versatile #5's who can shoot, drive, post, pick and pop. He struggles with those.


----------



## Vanilla

caddis8 said:


> Gobert did ok, but he has to figure out how to defend versatile #5's who can shoot, drive, post, pick and pop. He struggles with those.


What you say is true, but it shouldn't be. He's the two-time reigning defensive player of the year. He should have that figured out already.


----------



## Kwalk3

Vanilla said:


> What you say is true, but it shouldn't be. He's the two-time reigning defensive player of the year. He should have that figured out already.


He played Jokic perfectly on the last possession of regulation. However, he seemed indecisive a lot of the night, especially in the 1st half. Jokic got whatever he wanted.


----------



## Critter

The Jazz are now 0-4 against the Nuggets so far this season with 2 overtime losses.

Today I saw the Jazz as a one person team with Mitchel scoring like he did, but the Nuggets shut down the rest of the team. I actually thought that they Jazz had a chance during regulation with a couple baskets lead but they choked. It didn't help any with Rudy having 5 fowels.

Be what it is the Jazz can't be a one dimensional team in the playoffs and expect to actually win a game 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## caddis8

Critter said:


> The Jazz are now 0-4 against the Nuggets so far this season with 2 overtime losses.
> 
> Today I saw the Jazz as a one person team with Mitchel scoring like he did, but the Nuggets shut down the rest of the team. I actually thought that they Jazz had a chance during regulation with a couple baskets lead but they choked. It didn't help any with Rudy having 5 fowels.
> 
> Be what it is the Jazz can't be a one dimensional team in the playoffs and expect to actually win a game
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


Normally, I would agree with that. However, with Mitchell being on fire, I would say feed him the ball, but do it smart. Denver couldn't stop him, but they couldn't stop Denver either. Especially the 2 man game with Nocic and Murray. Crap, double team, push a higher screen, 3/4 pressure to throw off timing something. Michell was special and OT he was nowhere. A couple stupid errors at the end (8 second violation being #1 as previously mentioned).


----------



## PBH

Utah's problem is not whether or not Mitchell can go off and score a bunch of points. The problem we have is who else is going to score? We had two starters that scored a combined 6 points.

Mitchell is great. Gobert is really good. After that, we're crossing our fingers for someone else to have a great game.

O'Neale is a defender -- but couldn't stop Murray. Foul trouble then forced Utah to try putting SloMo' Joe on Murray. Ingles gives it everything he has, so give him some credit for that. But Denver completely exposed the opportunity for Murray and Jocic do whatever they wanted offensively.

Utah was known to be a defensive minded team, and actually was for a couple years. But this team we have now is not good enough defensively, with the exception of Gobert. We cannot stop opposing teams guards - whether they are stars or not. Combine that with our lack of consistent scoring behind Mitchell, and we're in trouble.

But, on the bright side, this will be a fun series to follow on the internet since the games are all in the middle of the day so we don't get to watch them...


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> But, on the bright side, this will be a fun series to follow on the internet since the games are all in the middle of the day so we don't get to watch them...


I'll reiterate, the NBA sent the Jazz and Nuggets to the little kids sandbox on this one. Kind of embarrassing.


----------



## PBH

Good game so far. Clarkson is tearing it up, Gobert is contributing, Ingles and O'Neale are playing well.

Denver will make some adjustments at the half, and Mitchell will start to take more shots in the second half. Let's see how this shakes out...


----------



## PBH

Pouring it on. Wow. What a 3rd quarter. Keep that foot on the gas pedal.


----------



## Kwalk3

PBH said:


> Pouring it on. Wow. What a 3rd quarter. Keep that foot on the gas pedal.


I'm still nervous. But that was a fun quarter to watch


----------



## 3arabians

PBH said:


> Pouring it on. Wow. What a 3rd quarter. Keep that foot on the gas pedal.


Ya! Impressive! I didn't see this coming


----------



## Kwalk3

Mitchell is putting his finger on the game again, but in a different way. He's still scoring, especially in the 3rd, but he's been awesome with the ball in his hands. Good reads. 

I like him.


----------



## 3arabians

Kwalk3 said:


> Mitchell is putting his finger on the game again, but in a different way. He's still scoring, especially in the 3rd, but he's been awesome with the ball in his hands. Good reads.
> 
> I like him.


Agreed. I wondered how he would come back from the 57 and he didn't disappoint one bit.

Balanced attack. We hit shots, which helped but Mitchell just flowed in the game and didn't appear to force anything and got everyone involved. Lots of wide open 3s for team mates and they made it count.

I can't remember such an impressive start to finish performance in a playoff game from the jazz in the last 20+ years.


----------



## Catherder

It will be interesting to see the effect of Conley returning for the Jazz and Harris and/or Barton for Denver. 

Regardless, it looks like we have an entertaining series ahead of us.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> It will be interesting to see the effect of Conley returning for the Jazz and Harris and/or Barton for Denver.
> 
> Regardless, it looks like we have an entertaining series ahead of us.


Barton left the bubble to rehab his knee today. No word on when theyre getting Harris back. I think having Conley back will help. There are moments where the Jazz really need a guy who can create, and hit 3s. The more recent iteration of Jazz Conley has proven effective at both.

Would be surprised to see this end in fewer than 7 games.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Anyone who stopped watching the NBA over petty reasons is missing out lol. Great game today!


----------



## PBH

Kwalk3 said:


> I think having Conley back will help.


My biggest concern is that when Conley is in the game, Mitchell no longer has the ball in his hands.

Mitchell thrives without Conley.

the Jazz struggled all year long with Conley -- just look at how many times we've talked about how hard this change has been for Conley, but that he'll figure it out eventually. I don't think the problem is Conley -- I think it's that for the Jazz to be successful, we need the ball in Mitchell's hands.

Things have gotten interesting. Let's all hope Damian gives the Lakers another Showtime performance!


----------



## Vanilla

Portland is going to be a tough matchup for the Lakers. They have 2.5 NBA players on the Lakers these days. And but for a terrible ejection, the Clippers very well could be down 2-0 right now as well. The bubble is crazy. 

The level of basketball is slowly increasing. Still not what you’d expect in playoff basketball. I’m assuming by round two it will be a great show.


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> The level of basketball is slowly increasing. Still not what you'd expect in playoff basketball. I'm assuming by round two it will be a great show.


That may be, but the entertainment value of the games so far has been pretty good. With the exception of the Sixers mailing it in, all the other series look competitive and it definitely is worth watching to see what Lillard is going to do next. How crazy would it be for both #1 seeds to go out in the first round? (although I think the Bucks will right themselves in short order)


----------



## Vanilla

Jazz-Nuggets game 1 and Portland-LA game 1 were both very entertaining basketball games. 

You are right, there has been high entertainment value since the playoffs started.


----------



## Kwalk3

PBH said:


> My biggest concern is that when Conley is in the game, Mitchell no longer has the ball in his hands.
> 
> Mitchell thrives without Conley.
> 
> the Jazz struggled all year long with Conley -- just look at how many times we've talked about how hard this change has been for Conley, but that he'll figure it out eventually. I don't think the problem is Conley -- I think it's that for the Jazz to be successful, we need the ball in Mitchell's hands.
> 
> Things have gotten interesting. Let's all hope Damian gives the Lakers another Showtime performance!


I get that. Donovan thrives with the ball in his hand. Conley does too. However, the Jazz desperately need another creator and shotmaker. I bet they stagger minutes after starting both of them, and let Mike run the show with the second unit a bit more.

Fingers crossed that we don't see many more Mudiay minutes the rest of the way.....


----------



## Critter

So the question about Wednesdays game was:

Did the Jazz step up and play the way that they are capable of playing?

Did the Nuggets drop down a few levels and just have a rotten game?

Or did the Jazz step up and the Nuggets drop down together? 

I actually think that the Jazz stepped up and the Nuggets dropped down. 

If the Jazz do get past the Nuggets I don't expect much from them in the second round. 

I still prefer the Utah Stars way back in 1971 when they won the ABA Championship when they defeated the Kentucky Colonels for the championship.


----------



## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> If the Jazz do get past the Nuggets I don't expect much from them in the second round.


Depends. Nuggets might be tougher than Clipps or Mavs (depending which clippers show up)


----------



## Kwalk3

:smile:


----------



## Catherder

Gobert going to get 20-20 today? (points/rebounds)


----------



## Catherder

So for you guys watching, is it as dominating a performance as it appears to be on the ESPN feed I'm stuck with at work?


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> Gobert going to get 20-20 today? (points/rebounds)


He is absolutely dominating. The nuggets just look defeated. Crazy. Didn't see this coming today.

How 'bout Conley today too! He's looking so comfortable.

Once again, the Jazz are just getting everything they want offensively.


----------



## 3arabians

Kwalk3 said:


>


I'm a little &#128563; and a lot &#128518;

I didn't expect another butt kicking by the Jazz in game 2. Welcome back Conley


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> So for you guys watching, is it as dominating a performance as it appears to be on the ESPN feed I'm stuck with at work?


More?


----------



## Catherder

This is a Mudiay sighting I'm pretty cool with.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> This is a Mudiay sighting I'm pretty cool with.


Haha. Same. Enjoying Mudiay minutes in a blowout instead of white knuckles hoping to just survive them is much preferred.

Niang is also making me eat my words a bit the last few games. Minivan must have gone in for an oil change.


----------



## Kwalk3

I'm resisting the urge to do a wellness check text to one of my good buddies in Denver. Maybe the most die-hard Nuggets fan I know of.

I'll keep it classy until after game 4. Play it safe....


----------



## Catherder

Does Bol Bol look like his dad? I've not seen him play yet. 

That welfare check may legitimately be in order today.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> Does Bol Bol look like his dad? I've not seen him play yet.
> 
> That welfare check may legitimately be in order today.


Yes. But much thinner. His legs look like they are gonna snap in two. He's got a stroke from 3 but he's super raw.


----------



## Vanilla

I don't remember watching a team look so disinterested in a playoff game than the Nuggets today. Credit the Jazz, they were on fire and hitting shots, but the Nuggets really didn't make them work very hard for it. 

Still early, but would be awesome if the Jazz can make a little run in these playoffs.


----------



## 3arabians

Vanilla said:


> I don't remember watching a team look so disinterested in a playoff game than the Nuggets today. Credit the Jazz, they were on fire and hitting shots, but the Nuggets really didn't make them work very hard for it.
> 
> Still early, but would be awesome if the Jazz can make a little run in these playoffs.


Agreed! The bubble is having an affect on some teams I think. I was surprised at how the nuggets seemed to hang their heads as soon as they went down by 10 and never seemed to have any fight after the initial punch the jazz landed. It was weird to watch. I loved it as a jazz fan though. It will be interesting to see how denver plays in game 4.


----------



## Catherder

3arabians said:


> It will be interesting to see how denver plays in game 4.


Denver seems like too good of a team to mail it in 2 more times, but today's game was inexplicable by itself. Maybe they know that Harris and Barton are not going to come back and deep down, it is having an effect. Regardless, I would be floored if it is another effort like today.

In related playoff news, Doncic's ankle sprain didn't look very good. That series may be swinging sharply to the Clips.


----------



## CPAjeff

Well I was wrong in my initial prediction of how this series would play out. It seemed the game was over after the Jazz finished the first quarter on a good run and then opened the second quarter with another good run. Bubble basketball sure is fun to watch!


----------



## Kwalk3

This game is a little more how I anticipated the series going. That said, the Jazz took the Nuggets punch in the first half and are only down 1. Mitchell is looking good, and I trust Quin Snyder will make some adjustments to how the Jazz are defending


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Catherder

Whew, that was close. It would have been nice if we could have rebounded better. 

One to go. Expect more like tonight.


----------



## Vanilla

Okay Spida. I see you! 

Nuggets will fold. This series ends Tuesday. 








(That almost guarantees Jazz lose game 5! :grin: )


----------



## BGD

Fun Game and nice to be able to win a close one. Also, anyone else catch the Dallas and Clippers OT game? That was a very entertaining game. Really just came down to who had the ball last.


----------



## wyoming2utah

The Nuggets are honestly the worst defensive team I think I've seen. There is no way they fix their defensive problems enough to beat the Jazz in this series...

...Offensively, the Jazz look incredible. It will be interesting to see how that holds up in the next round.


----------



## Catherder

Stuck at work again. :sad::sad::sad:

The jazz offensive efficiency has continued to be exceptional and we've cleaned up the rebounding some. The Nugs didn't play badly and shot 50% from 3 but are down 9. 

One half to go. Anything the ESPN feed didn't pick up of note?


----------



## Catherder

Welp, that ended poorly. Denver figured out something defensively in crunch time and Murray stayed hot. 

On to Thursday.......


----------



## Vanilla

You’re all welcome for giving you more of the series. Should I guarantee another Jazz victory so we can have a game 7?


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> You're all welcome for giving you more of the series. Should I guarantee another Jazz victory so we can have a game 7?


No. -O,-

Please no.


----------



## Critter

Vanilla said:


> You're all welcome for giving you more of the series. Should I guarantee another Jazz victory so we can have a game 7?


You mean Nuggets don't you?


----------



## PBH

I think Vanilla meant guarantee another Jazz victory to ensure a game 7. 


What did Denver figure out? This was typical of many Jazz games. In the 4th quarter they move away from what got them to the point they were at (ball movement, perimeter shooting, distributed scoring) and go to the standard NBA 4th quarter tactic: superstar isolation.

Mitchell was forcing things too much at the end, while on the other side of the court Murray was destroying us.

Hopefully the Jazz look for some payback on Thursday.


----------



## Critter

Ok, after a third cup of coffee I picked up on his sarcasm.


----------



## Vanilla

So, that NBA restart ya’ll we’re talking about. That was cool while it lasted.


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> So, that NBA restart ya'll we're talking about. That was cool while it lasted.


I guess we can run the covid thread out a few more pages. :-| Or BYU is probably playing a few football games against the Pentagon and some other nondescript competition :-| Or how about bowhunters behaving badly? :-| Or maybe crappy shotguns?

Yeah, didn't think so.

But, Hey, I caught a ton of bass and perch today on the lake and I saved a lot or money by switching to Geico.


----------



## PBH

How does the league / owners handle this? Breach of contract? Does this mean players have to get real jobs? 

I'm genuinely interested now that they've all walked out. This is getting good!


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> How does the league / owners handle this? Breach of contract? Does this mean players have to get real jobs?


Not a chance. Nothing will happen this year due to this, if it in fact ends with a walkout on the playoffs. What becomes really interesting is what do the owners do next year? Revenue is down so much this year, and keeping the cap even close to what it was this year was contingent upon the bubble working and getting the TV revenue from a completed playoff run. There is a real chance if the players won't agree to major pay cuts next year commensurate with the decrease in revenue from this year that the owners would lock them out.



PBH said:


> I'm genuinely interested now that they've all walked out. This is getting good!


As stated above, it will be interesting. And beyond basketball or sports, this has a chance to be a REALLY big deal.


----------



## Kwalk3

Playoffs resuming tomorrow most likely according to most sources. Those that were opposed to resuming last night apparently had a change of heart overnight.

These playoffs have been pretty enjoyable so far. Looking forward to them finishing.


----------



## PBH

Money will drive all of this in the end.


----------



## Catherder

Looks like no games today, with a probable resumption tomorrow. Jazz probably will have game 6 on Saturday, I would assume.


----------



## PBH

game 7 on Monday? 


#BOTP


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> game 7 on Monday?


Or game 1. 8)


----------



## Kwalk3

PBH said:


> game 7 on Monday?


Eternally the pessimist. JK. Hoping the Jazz can close it out Saturday. I am a little nervous about it though with all the distractions and postponement, that the Jazz will be out of rhythm.


----------



## Critter

I say that they can take their ball and go home. 

Same with baseball and football. 

These overpaid crybabies can then go find a real job..


----------



## PBH

I get it Critter. These guys have the monetary luxury of being able to "boycott" a game (or two). It's crazy to me.

As much as I like watching Jazz basketball, I wouldn't mind watching the NBA implode and disappear.


----------



## Kwalk3

Pretty sure that being the absolute best i the world at something qualifies as a real job. 
I understand the sentiment, but it's awfully easy for me to say that they should do this or that, when I have exactly ZERO of their lived experience that is causing them to speak out. 

I also think they've publicly acknowledged that they themselves are incredibly privileged due to their success and that's why they feel a responsibility to use their platforms to represent those who don't have the luxury of boycotting anything. 

Are we really that inconvenienced by not having playoff basketball for what is turning out to be TWO days in August?

We can argue about whether the "boycott"/postponement is the most effective way to get their message across, but I'm just glad there is going to be basketball tomorrow.

Sports is one of those things that makes things feel quasi-normal "in these uncertain times."


----------



## RandomElk16

I don't get all bahhh humbug upset about kneeling, about protests, hell even about them stopping the games. 

From a purely analytical perspective, financially strapping the teams seems like leverage and it may be short term.. but when you couple that with the pandemic you might actually put them in a position where they CAN'T contribute to causes because they don't have excess funds. 

This isn't about the owners... Not worried about the rich. They will in fact be fine(funny to see Balmers comments - look at his net worth increase this year alone). But it impacts the employees, those who sell league items, their supply chain and employees, employees of broadcast stations, etc... further it has massive impacts on communities once games come back. 


So maybe they feel a lockout or walking away helps.. and I think doing 1 or 2 days does drive traction. Anything longer would likely cause more detriment than good. 



But that's their right. They play, I'll watch. They don't, oh well....


----------



## Critter

Kwalk3 said:


> Pretty sure that being the absolute best i the world at something qualifies as a real job.


I'm not saying it doesn't qualify as a real job. But how many of us can pull the stuff that they pull and keep the job that you are working at?

I know for a fact that if I tried half of what they are doing that I would be kicking horse turds down the road, and that I would wager that any others on here except for those that are self employed would be in the same boat

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kwalk3

Critter said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't qualify as a real job. But how many of us can pull the stuff that they pull and keep the job that you are working at?
> 
> I know for a fact that if I tried half of what they are doing that I would be kicking horse turds down the road, and that I would wager that any others on here except for those that are self employed would be in the same boat
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


Difference is, at least for now, they are doing it with the blessing and support of their organization and employers, i.e. the NBA and their respective teams.

It's just an entirely different workplace that doesn't exist without the players.

I just don't think it's a helpful comparison.

Also, if I was in the top tier of all salespeople in the world it's likely I could get away with much more than I do now, being just a "good" salesman.


----------



## Brettski7

Is it playoffs already? Idk I don’t follow or watch NBA. Or basketball. Just curious. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

I've always been taught that where much is given, much is expected. The "shut up and dribble" crowd honestly makes no sense to me. I don't mean that to be offensive to anyone or to be jerk, I legitimately do not understand the position. 

I see a contractor yapping about "just shut up and dribble...we don't pay you for your politics." Well, shut up and build something. Because I'm not paying you for your opinion either. Or a teacher, shut up and teach. We don't pay you for your opinion on anything other than the subject you're teaching. Or the IT guy...shut up and fix my network, because you're not paid for your opinions either. 

Why does that principle only apply to athletes? I like that they are outspoken, even when I don't agree with what they are saying. That is exactly what makes our country great. I sincerely worry about the people that try to stifle the message of those that don't agree with them on both sides. (and it happens on both sides) Shut up and dribble sounds an awful lot like a place some of our worst dictators in the history of the world would love to live. Just sayin... 

As for if they play or go home, I support either way. I hope they play. Selfishly, I want to watch good basketball, and it was just getting good. It's not up to me to tell them what is the right thing to do, however. And whatever they decide, is their choice. Again, freedom can sure be tough at times, can't it?


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Or the IT guy...shut up and fix my network, because you're not paid for your opinions either.




:tape:


----------



## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't qualify as a real job. But how many of us can pull the stuff that they pull and keep the job that you are working at?
> 
> I know for a fact that if I tried half of what they are doing that I would be kicking horse turds down the road, and that I would wager that any others on here except for those that are self employed would be in the same boat
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


If you are the best in the world at it.

Tell me that the best CEO in the world can't do what they want? Mark Cuban can "pull that stuff".

Lebron James is the best basketball player in the world. So it's not like you or me... We are closer to a semi pro local player than we are Lebron. They also couldn't walk away. It's reality.


----------



## Critter

Alright there are some, I would of been quite hard for me to list all those who could walk off of a job and expect to be able to return the next day without repercussions. 

So can you do that? Just walk up to your boss and tell him that you are not going to show up for the next few day because you feel that you need to show your unity with the problems that are going on now? 

Even a lot that are the best at what they do could not do that. What would happen to the best heart surgeon if he decided that he wasn't going to show up for the next dozen heart transplants? Do you think that those who need a transplant will continue to beat a path to his door? There will be those that do but a lot of the others will be going elsewhere.


----------



## Catherder

Critter said:


> Even a lot that are the best at what they do could not do that. What would happen to the best heart surgeon if he decided that he wasn't going to show up for the next dozen heart transplants? Do you think that those who need a transplant will continue to beat a path to his door? There will be those that do but a lot of the others will be going elsewhere.


Its all about leverage too. Agree or not, how many folks could walk out and in so doing cause a ripple effect of other professionals to follow suit? Obviously, yesterday proves that the NBA players DO have that power as their action caused a large number of others to join them. If every podiatrist in Utah county walked out, would they be joined by dentists, MD's, veterinarians, optometrists and pharmacists? That would be no.

Interestingly, your heart transplant doctor is one that probably could. Why? Because there are very few transplant doctors/programs available. One does not have the option to go to the "other guy" because there aren't very many "other guys" and the waiting list is already very long.


----------



## Critter

What I see is that the owners of the NBA teams just need to get together and tell the players that they are either going to play or that the season will be shut down. 

If they were doing it for the fans they would have the games on local TV stations and not on a network that you need a dish or subscribe to cable to watch. To me the playoffs are all about the TV revenue that the NBA is going to collect. It isn't about the fans at all. 

But it is as I said before all the professional teams can head home for the season and do a reboot for next year, if there is a season next year for them.


----------



## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> Alright there are some, I would of been quite hard for me to list all those who could walk off of a job and expect to be able to return the next day without repercussions.
> 
> So can you do that? Just walk up to your boss and tell him that you are not going to show up for the next few day because you feel that you need to show your unity with the problems that are going on now?
> 
> Even a lot that are the best at what they do could not do that. What would happen to the best heart surgeon if he decided that he wasn't going to show up for the next dozen heart transplants? Do you think that those who need a transplant will continue to beat a path to his door? There will be those that do but a lot of the others will be going elsewhere.


The best heart surgeon in the world could walk away without notice one day and Hopkins would hire his happy butt back 4 years later without question.

You are comparing some strange things..


----------



## Critter

The big thing that I am getting at is where are these NBA, NFL, and other professional sports players at once the season is done. 

There have only been a couple of them that you hear about doing anything for social justice at this time. 

I heard today on the boob tube that last night when the Milwaukee Bucks decided to walk out of the arena that they didn't even bother to notify the Miami Heat. They did call the DA up in Kenosha and demanded that they charged the police officer that shot Blake. They didn't ask for a investigation, they didn't ask for evidence, or anything else. They just wanted him charged in a crime. 

I'd also be willing to bet that if you asked half of the players what was going on in the world today they would have no idea outside of their world around themselves. 

I also find it funny with all this injustice going on and demonstrations that there was a black man who shot and killed a young lady and her step father over a fender bender. He then ran away and once the police caught up with him he turned the gun on himself and shot himself. Now demonstrations are happening because he killed himself. 

So have any of you seen this on any of the news stations? I know that I haven't, I did read about it. 

It is one strange world that we are living in right now.


----------



## Jedidiah

Jacob Blake had a knife, your guys' sportsball guys are idiots.


----------



## Ray

Jedidiah said:


> Jacob Blake had a knife, your guys' sportsball guys are idiots.


&#128514;&#128076;


----------



## Jedidiah

Ray said:


> &#128514;&#128076;


----------



## Fowlmouth

___________________


----------



## Brettski7

Vanilla said:


> I see a contractor yapping about "just shut up and dribble...we don't pay you for your politics." Well, shut up and build something. Because I'm not paying you for your opinion either. Or a teacher, shut up and teach. We don't pay you for your opinion on anything other than the subject you're teaching. Or the IT guy...shut up and fix my network, because you're not paid for your opinions either.


You had it right in this paragraph.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

Brettski7 said:


> You had it right in this paragraph.


That's a pretty poor form of society where nobody is allowed to share their opinions. I'm glad our founding fathers saw this differently than that and ensured we'd have the right to do otherwise.

But then again, I love the constitution and what it says and means. Not everyone does.


----------



## Brettski7

Vanilla said:


> That's a pretty poor form of society where nobody is allowed to share their opinions. I'm glad our founding fathers saw this differently than that and ensured we'd have the right to do otherwise.
> 
> But then again, I love the constitution and what it says and means. Not everyone does.


That's not at all what I said.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jedidiah

It's not someone expressing their opinion, it's men who make hundreds of millions of dollars using their platform to try and force an opinion that is unpopular. An opinion that is unpopular because it is ill-informed and lacks actual evidence, an opinion that will never gain traction because the numbers don't only not support it, they outright refute it.


----------



## Kwalk3

So......Basketball games are back on today after a brief hiatus. 

I'm looking forward to Houston/OKC tonight. That has turned into a good series. Sounds like Westbrook is playing tonight.


----------



## Vanilla

Brettski7 said:


> That's not at all what I said.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess either I was misunderstanding what you were saying or you were misunderstanding what I was saying in my post that you said I had right then.

Just to clarify, my whole point is we don't tell anyone else they should do the equivalent of "shut up and dribble." (Or shut up and pitch, or shut up and coach, or shut up and kick the ball, etc etc etc) We allow all sorts of people to share their opinions across the board without thinking twice, but as soon as an athlete does, there is a segment of our society that immediately is offended and wants them to "shut up and dribble" for their own entertainment. As if we get to watch them and be entertained by them, and they have to do it on our terms? I think that way of thinking is completely wrong, and I don't understand it. I think there is no logic in it whatsoever, and is probably hypocritical if those people are sharing their own opinion on topics outside of their employment at any time as well. Just so I'm clear, that's my point above.

And the reason why that is my opinion, is I value people getting to voice their opinion, even if I disagree with it or I don't necessarily like it.


----------



## Vanilla

Kwalk3 said:


> Sounds like Westbrook is playing tonight.


I believe he was going to play Wednesday at least some before the postponement.


----------



## Catherder

Looks like the NBA will be back tomorrow. 

In the meantime, maybe I can watch some soccer...................Uh,...............maybe not.


----------



## Dunkem

Catherder said:


> Looks like the NBA will be back tomorrow.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe I can watch some soccer...................Uh,...............maybe not.


HOCKEY!!!!:mrgreen:


----------



## neverdrawn

With the money that is generated by professional sports perhaps they could do something more meaningful than just boycotting or protesting. (Yes, I know there are a few athletes that do just this, but it's a minority). How about every professional athlete above a certain salary threshold donate a percentage to agreed upon foundations or charities and spend a specified amount of their time dedicated to making things better within said entities. In turn, require the owners of the teams they play for to do the same. Then we would get some meaningful change rather than just lip service. In effect, have them "put their money where their mouth is."


----------



## Jedidiah

This is exactly my point. Lebron is donating HIS money, great (he really is and that really is great). But what they're doing with a walkout is hurting other people who do not agree. If I do not agree that is my right. If the organization, the retailers, everyone else involved do NOT agree with a NON-FACTUAL opinion, you have no right to force them to believe the way you do. BEYOND that, you are hurting your cause by trying to force people who have seen no actual evidence of your claim. If you wanted it changed, you campaign and win hearts and minds. If you think one incident is going to change public opinion and you think you're going to do it through forcing the subject in a matter of months, you're possibly going to break the issue permanently. That's what history tells us and Lebron James isn't going to change that today.


----------



## Brettski7

Vanilla said:


> I guess either I was misunderstanding what you were saying or you were misunderstanding what I was saying in my post that you said I had right then.
> 
> Just to clarify, my whole point is we don't tell anyone else they should do the equivalent of "shut up and dribble." (Or shut up and pitch, or shut up and coach, or shut up and kick the ball, etc etc etc) We allow all sorts of people to share their opinions across the board without thinking twice, but as soon as an athlete does, there is a segment of our society that immediately is offended and wants them to "shut up and dribble" for their own entertainment. As if we get to watch them and be entertained by them, and they have to do it on our terms? I think that way of thinking is completely wrong, and I don't understand it. I think there is no logic in it whatsoever, and is probably hypocritical if those people are sharing their own opinion on topics outside of their employment at any time as well. Just so I'm clear, that's my point above.
> 
> And the reason why that is my opinion, is I value people getting to voice their opinion, even if I disagree with it or I don't necessarily like it.


Yes what I quoted from your post was correct. That is in no way implying having a society where one can't voice their opinion. Do it on your own time. MANY businesses have rules and policies against this kind of stuff. And yes we absolutely tell others shut up and work. No job I have worked was I allowed to protest and voice my opinions at work and not work. It can be construed as speaking for the company and only the company is allowed to take or state a position on an issue.

The constitution does not protect your freedom of speech from private businesses. It protects it from government.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla

Brettski7 said:


> The constitution does not protect your freedom of speech from private businesses. It protects it from government.


I'm well aware of the meaning of freedom of speech. You'll notice I did not use that phrase in why I am okay with athletes speaking out. That was purposeful.

And your bosses may have restricted you, but the NBA bosses are not. They are very much okay with them speaking out and using their platform. So, what else you got other than you don't like it?

And thanks for clarifying, because that helps me to know my original description of your ideal society would suck. And I didn't misunderstand it.


----------



## Brettski7

Vanilla said:


> I'm well aware of the meaning of freedom of speech. You'll notice I did not use that phrase in why I am okay with athletes speaking out. That was purposeful.
> 
> And your bosses may have restricted you, but the NBA bosses are not. They are very much okay with them speaking out and using their platform. So, what else you got other than you don't like it?
> 
> And thanks for clarifying, because that helps me to know my original description of your ideal society would suck. And I didn't misunderstand it.


If NBA is restricting it then I guess they can do whatever they want. I still don't have to like it. That's my right. And it's based on reasons others have stated above.

And yes you are completely off and not accurate in your description whatsoever. You have a huge comprehension issue. You sound like backcountry who only believes himself to be correct, something I believe you have even called him out for. But have a good day and good luck this season.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## #1DEER 1-I

Seems meaningful:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299384796976685058
BTW here's all his stuff here:
https://www.adidas.com/us/search?q=donovan mitchell


----------



## RandomElk16

It's amazing how free will hurts so many feelings. 

The NBA/NFL is one of the few times I watch staunch conservatives/capitalists become socialists (with other people's money). The answer to perceived injustice shouldn't be billions in private funds - maybe that's the point. Even then, they throw that money. 

Say whatever you want about the situation.. watching a man be shot in the back 7x while still off the fresh feelings about a man who had a knee on his neck for over 8 minutes is probably going to make people feel a certain way. That's their right. 


I have made impulse decisions. If I had all the answers I would own my own island and half of Montana. I don't. While I do see areas they can probably put resources or funds - that's up to them. I can't tell someone not to have emotions because they are rich.


----------



## Critter

To start with I am not going to say what has happened to the victims was right or that they deserved it but.

When you have multiple officers around you and you know that you have done something wrong or they tell you that you have a warrant for your arrest or that you are under arrest don't do anything stupid like ignoring them, going back to your vehicle, or start running. If you do things are going to end badly for you one way or another. 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## #1DEER 1-I

RandomElk16 said:


> It's amazing how free will hurts so many feelings.
> 
> The NBA/NFL is one of the few times I watch staunch conservatives/capitalists become socialists (with other people's money). The answer to perceived injustice shouldn't be billions in private funds - maybe that's the point. Even then, they throw that money.
> 
> Say whatever you want about the situation.. watching a man be shot in the back 7x while still off the fresh feelings about a man who had a knee on his neck for over 8 minutes is probably going to make people feel a certain way. That's their right.
> 
> I have made impulse decisions. If I had all the answers I would own my own island and half of Montana. I don't. While I do see areas they can probably put resources or funds - that's up to them. I can't tell someone not to have emotions because they are rich.


These people are far more concerned about kneeling than 7 bullets in the back of a man in front of his kids.


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## Bill_The_Butcher

Pretty sure the guy was fighting with police then started reaching into his vehicle where he had a knife on the floorboard. Classic case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes


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## #1DEER 1-I

And for all you white conservatives from the state that’s 80% white, mostly one religion, and heavily one political bubble, take a step back and listen a little. Police relationships across the country are NOT the same. Historically they have NOT been the same. America’s systematic oppression of black people has its current ramifications. The criminal justice system does need several reforms. Y’all cry over riots, y’all cry over kneeling/striking a game. YOU are the babies. These guys want a better life for their family, their friends, their future children. Utahns can shutup and listen on the subject of racism quite honestly.

When black athlete after black athlete after black athlete reps saying “Utah is the most racist place I had to play” maybe Utah should take a step back and do some soul searching on how we can be better instead of looking for excuses not to be. It’s not necessarily a hateful racism, it’s ignorance of what black people have to go through that you don’t. It’s an unwillingness to shutup and listen to what those you don’t understand have to say. Yes it’s quite old seeing Utah double down on it’s racist BS and continue to give credence to those calling us all a bunch of racists. Wanna change that narrative and stigma? Shutup and listen a little right now.


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## Vanilla

Brettski, you can continue to assume I’m not comprehending. I can draw my own conclusions and opinions, just like you can. Just because I don’t agree with you does not mean I’m misunderstanding or not comprehending. If you don’t like it, don’t pay attention. I keep seeing an awful lot of people tell us how much they don’t care by commenting on the topic over and over and over again. 

The Blake case is a tough one. It looks terrible, but there are possible facts that would make it not terrible. And there is definitely a notion of “don’t fight with the police,” and I agree with that, but there are almost endless examples of people who did not fight with police and had tragic results. Even in cases where the person isn’t shot and killed, so they don’t meet the statistics so many are quoting (misquoting?) right now. 

What if they’re “just” cuffed, put on the ground and roughed up a little bit? They didn’t die, so should that be okay? This happens virtually every day somewhere in our country. Do yourself a favor and search “Sterling Brown video” on YouTube. Just watch the first 9 minutes. (Unless you really want to see how big of a d bag the cop is...then watch and listen until the end.) Doesn’t show up in the police shooting stats, but as an NBA player for the Milwaukee Bucks, does it still shape his (and others) perspective and emotions on a week like this?


----------



## Vanilla

#1DEER 1-I said:


> And for all you white conservatives from the state that's 80% white, mostly one religion, and heavily one political bubble, take a step back and listen a little. Police relationships across the country are NOT the same. Historically they have NOT been the same. America's systematic oppression of black people has its current ramifications. The criminal justice system does need several reforms. Y'all cry over riots, y'all cry over kneeling/striking a game. YOU are the babies. These guys want a better life for their family, their friends, their future children. Utahns can shutup and listen on the subject of racism quite honestly.
> 
> When black athlete after black athlete after black athlete reps saying "Utah is the most racist place I had to play" maybe Utah should take a step back and do some soul searching on how we can be better instead of looking for excuses not to be. It's not necessarily a hateful racism, it's ignorance of what black people have to go through that you don't. It's an unwillingness to shutup and listen to what those you don't understand have to say. Yes it's quite old seeing Utah double down on it's racist BS and continue to give credence to those calling us all a bunch of racists. Wanna change that narrative and stigma? Shutup and listen a little right now.


You're going to change minds and hearts with that message for sure!!!!

You're definitely making a difference by lecturing everyone and calling them racists. Solid work!


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> You're going to change minds and hearts with that message for sure!!!!
> 
> You're definitely making a difference by lecturing everyone and calling them racists. Solid work!


Some of the comments I've seen from the MAGA crowd during this are disgusting, so yeah, I'm gonna say Utah has a racism problem just like black athlete after black athlete has said about Utah. Maybe Utah should start looking inward and listen a little to the people who are black who think Utah is one of the most racist places in the country. Go check a KSL or Deseret News comment section and then tell me Utah doesn't have a racism problem. Until people can't admit there's a problem and they can do better, here the problem is Utah does have a racism problem, we ain't getting anywhere. The BS excuses and logic trying to avoid this conversation have grown beyond old and gross. I would like Utah to address this problem not try to avoid it or make excuses not to have this conversation. "Oh they're kneeling, I'm not watching." "Oh they're boycotting a game, babies" like it's such absolute garbage from people here. LISTEN. Have the **** conversation that need to be had. Admit where we can be better. Yes Utahns should do far more learning on racial issues than preaching in this 80% white conservative bubble. This is a frustrated response the stupid comments I've seen from so many Utahns that are just frankly embarrassing and exactly why the state has the racist reputation it does. I would like that to improve and you and everyone here should to.

Some of these folks need to straight up be told how racist and ignorant they look. There is a problem in this state. I can assure you black people struggle feeling comfortable on this state. So many stories have been told at this point. Stop making excuses and be better Utah.

Let me be clear here.

Utah is not considered one of the most racist places in the country without reason. Dear Utah, be better. Have the conversation. Listen. Be uncomfortable. Stop with the excuses of avoiding that conversation. I am 110% sure Utah can be better. Reputation is earned.


----------



## Jedidiah

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43


----------



## Jedidiah

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219


----------



## Ray

#1DEER 1-I said:


> And for all you white conservatives from the state that's 80% white, mostly one religion, and heavily one political bubble, take a step back and listen a little. Police relationships across the country are NOT the same. Historically they have NOT been the same. America's systematic oppression of black people has its current ramifications. The criminal justice system does need several reforms. Y'all cry over riots, y'all cry over kneeling/striking a game. YOU are the babies. These guys want a better life for their family, their friends, their future children. Utahns can shutup and listen on the subject of racism quite honestly.
> 
> When black athlete after black athlete after black athlete reps saying "Utah is the most racist place I had to play" maybe Utah should take a step back and do some soul searching on how we can be better instead of looking for excuses not to be. It's not necessarily a hateful racism, it's ignorance of what black people have to go through that you don't. It's an unwillingness to shutup and listen to what those you don't understand have to say. Yes it's quite old seeing Utah double down on it's racist BS and continue to give credence to those calling us all a bunch of racists. Wanna change that narrative and stigma? Shutup and listen a little right now.


I'm not LDS at all, so stop with the stereotypes, you're actually being racist. I spent a few years in the south, in predominantly black areas, I can tell you with first hand experience that racism is a 2way street. I got chased out bars and all sorts of stuff.


----------



## Jedidiah

No productive conversation is going to include a comparison of who is more racist.


----------



## Ray

Jedidiah said:


> No productive conversation is going to include a comparison of who is more racist.


Touché


----------



## Jedidiah

1-I, you in particular among men on this forum have a lot of my respect, for what that's worth among a group of people who clearly have a less than stellar opinion of me. That said, I'm going to lay out my position and I ask only that you not take this conversation to an ugly place, and tell me where I'm wrong if you think I am.

It is clear by the data we have that despite making up only 13% of the population Black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime at a rate of about 7X. That number is over 50 percent with over 95% of those violent crimes committed by Black men. That means Black men commit over 7 times the crime they should be committing. Even if you look at purely the conviction record and the victim reporting statistics the data closely supports this number. Now most folks who say "shut up and dribble" are getting lost at this unequal data. My argument is that sports stars like Lebron are getting lost on the other side of this position, to the complete detriment of the end goal of a happy, equitable and fair resolution. You will never see everyone accept the argument that police are wrong when the incidents of interaction are that high, and what Lebron, the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB are doing right now is inciting people to demand a change without any real plan. Everyone is wrong here because we are all ignoring facts on both our sides, and if we keep considering the problem of police brutality itself in a bubble, we're all going to lose in this.


----------



## Vanilla

Let’s be clear here, 1eye: Someone can not like kneeling for the anthem without being a racist. Someone can not like player boycotts of games and not be racist. I’ve been very clear I’m okay with the things that have gone on, but there is room for reasonable minds to disagree. Your claim of racism on that is just plain ridiculous. 

And your claim that Utah has the reputation of being the most racist place to play in the country is equally ridiculous. You need to check your own biases in this conversation too. Because they’re glaring.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Let's see what a former Jazz player fan favorite has to say:

Antoine Carr "He loves that city," Carr said, referring to Donovan Mitchell. "He's given his heart. If you can't give your heart back to him, you don't deserve to watch him play."

https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stori...ic-nba-boycott/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> Let's be clear here, 1eye: Someone can not like kneeling for the anthem without being a racist. Someone can not like player boycotts of games and not be racist. I've been very clear I'm okay with the things that have gone on, but there is room for reasonable minds to disagree. Your claim of racism on that is just plain ridiculous.
> 
> And your claim that Utah has the reputation of being the most racist place to play in the country is equally ridiculous. You need to check your own biases in this conversation too. Because they're glaring.


It's not. It's 100% true. I follow many of the players friends/family on twitter. Utah has a reputation. You don't have to like it. Among black players. Utah has the worst reputation in the league. Bar none. Instead of excusing it. Fix it. Reputation is earned.

Let me be clear Utahns. Following NBA players family and friends you have a reputation. You are seen as the most racist people among any NBA city. You can continue to chose to ignore and avoid that stigma, or try to look inward and fix it. Utah is seen as a terribly racist place. None of us should want that.

Im telling you all exactly what these black players and their family's feel being here. STOP IGNORING IT. Even players who live here or have liked it here agree. Deron Williams lives here and in the past few days has called out ignorant Utahns DMing him over recent events. STOP LOOKING LIKE IGNORANT RACIST ASSHOLES UTAHNS it's a horrible horrible look.


----------



## Vanilla

#1DEER 1-I said:


> It's not. It's 100% true. I follow many of the players friends/family on twitter. Utah has a reputation. You don't have to like it. Among black players. Utah has the worst reputation in the league. Bar none. Instead of excusing it. Fix it. Reputation is earned.
> 
> Let me be clear Utahns. Following NBA players family and friends you have a reputation. You are seen as the most racist people among any NBA city. You can continue to chose to ignore and avoid that stigma, or try to look inward and fix it. Utah is seen as a terribly racist place. None of us should want that.


100% true that Utah has the worst reputation in the league?

Wow, you're not even pretending to try to be accurate on this one, are you?

Keep on that soapbox. You're making a difference! (Hopefully your sarcasm meter isn't broken.)

I'm excited to see what Spida does the rest of the playoffs, and also to see what he does when his playoff run comes to an end.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> 100% true that Utah has the worst reputation in the league?
> 
> Wow, you're not even pretending to try to be accurate on this one, are you?
> 
> Keep on that soapbox. You're making a difference! (Hopefully your sarcasm meter isn't broken.)
> 
> I'm excited to see what Spida does the rest of the playoffs, and also to see what he does when his playoff run comes to an end.


I follow Jazz player, NBA players, their family and friends on Twitter. Utah is always the one among all NBA circles with the worst reputation including players who played here. Yes. I am 100% certain among the current, and former players along with their friends and family Utah has the worst reputation. Stop ignoring it and fix it. Utah's racist reputation didn't come from nowhere. You can see the Jazz making a real effort to try and change that. Maybe the community should follow their lead and stop being ignorant and racist and making people who are black feel more comfortable in our communities. Also Vanilla, it shouldn't matter if it's a ton, the fact I've seen so many black players and their family and friends should be enough to know there's work to be done. Again you want to deflect or look for excuses. Within the past month I've literally seen a player on the team like a tweet saying "which NBA fanbase is the most racist" and they like the reply that said "gotta be Utah". WE HAVE AN ISSUE and we should address it is not ignore it. So to all you ignorant people who don't think you're racist and don't think you look ignorant as hell. You're wrong. This community is viewed as one of the most racist in the country and we should be looking to shake that stigma not hide from it or make excuses.

PS I've seen this from college players and their families as well. It's a real stigma and issue. And we need to stop ignoring it.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Ray said:


> I'm not LDS at all, so stop with the stereotypes, you're actually being racist. I spent a few years in the south, in predominantly black areas, I can tell you with first hand experience that racism is a 2way street. I got chased out bars and all sorts of stuff.


That's nice. I'm talking about making this community that's viewed as very racist more inclusive.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Jedidiah said:


> 1-I, you in particular among men on this forum have a lot of my respect, for what that's worth among a group of people who clearly have a less than stellar opinion of me. That said, I'm going to lay out my position and I ask only that you not take this conversation to an ugly place, and tell me where I'm wrong if you think I am.
> 
> It is clear by the data we have that despite making up only 13% of the population Black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime at a rate of about 7X. That number is over 50 percent with over 95% of those violent crimes committed by Black men. That means Black men commit over 7 times the crime they should be committing. Even if you look at purely the conviction record and the victim reporting statistics the data closely supports this number. Now most folks who say "shut up and dribble" are getting lost at this unequal data. My argument is that sports stars like Lebron are getting lost on the other side of this position, to the complete detriment of the end goal of a happy, equitable and fair resolution. You will never see everyone accept the argument that police are wrong when the incidents of interaction are that high, and what Lebron, the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB are doing right now is inciting people to demand a change without any real plan. Everyone is wrong here because we are all ignoring facts on both our sides, and if we keep considering the problem of police brutality itself in a bubble, we're all going to lose in this.


Part of this is a discussion of how this country finds a way to heal the destructive pattern that racism and oppression caused in these communities. History has ramifications. How people were treated for so long is a reason for much of this. Finding those answers is a part of this conversation. So instead of being upset at kneeling or boycotting a game, let's be upset about what this country did to cause the issues within the culture and communities these issues exist and find solutions instead of fighting over stupid things like kneeling.


----------



## Jedidiah

We're going to have a hard time convincing people that a group who commit 50% of the violent crime in this country while being 6.5% of the population are doing it as a result of abuses or oppression. I'm sorry, but it's true. If the crimes were all connected to a need to survive or live at a semblance of happiness people would agree (and when I say people I'm including the Black people who condemn it.) Some form of give and take and a serious look at motives and causes is going to need happen. If these sports leagues want to fix the problem, they need to find someone who is going to explain the issue to both sides instead of everyone saying somethings wrong, getting mad and storming out of the room.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Jedidiah said:


> We're going to have a hard time convincing people that a group who commit 50% of the violent crime in this country while being 6.5% of the population are doing it as a result of abuses or oppression. I'm sorry, but it's true. If the crimes were all connected to a need to survive or live at a semblance of happiness people would agree (and when I say people I'm including the Black people who condemn it.) Some form of give and take and a serious look at motives and causes is going to need happen. If these sports leagues want to fix the problem, they need to find someone who is going to explain the issue to both sides instead of everyone saying somethings wrong, getting mad and storming out of the room.


I agree it's a difficult problem to address and get people to understand. People don't understand the aspects of growing up in some of these neighborhoods where systematic oppression and racism have created the cultures that exist. People don't understand the struggle to escape those places and lifestyles. People don't understand the relationships between police and minorities in a lot of areas. White America has has never had to deal with the ramifications of what white America brought on black America through so much oppression and racism. People have to take a step back and first off understand they don't understand it, and the next step realizing there's a problem. These guys aren't acting. Black people have never felt comfortable in America because America has never felt comfortable seeing them as equal unless they wear your favorite sports jersey. These guys are speaking for those who don't wear your favorite sports jersey. And it's be nice if lily white Utahns would shutup and listen a bit and actual consider things with an open mind that maybe others have felt/lived different lives than them and have viewpoints and life experiences they don't understand.


----------



## Jedidiah

Oh buddy, if you keep telling people to shut up and listen when they live in a place where they have no concept of the racism that exists in some cities you're never going to win people over here. How are they going to know if you tell them they're idiots when they ask? I can definitely say that some of the "racism" that is seen here is just ignorance of the world outside the state but bears no real malice. Sometimes people just don't know, and sometimes their first encounter with racism here was against white people. That particular formula is dangerous because it changes people for the worse. They get told some Black people hate white people and opinions get shaped from there. But that isn't to say there aren't also times where we make honest mistakes. I submit to you the idea that that story about the cop asking how the guy could afford his car was an innocent conversation in the mind of the cop. I will consider the idea that some inner city cops do bad things if you will meet me halfway and accept that white middle America sometimes has no clue what is going on. Also, please, for the benefit of everyone consider stopping telling people to shut up and listen when the conversation is as important as you say, not only here but out in the real world.


----------



## Jedidiah

I missed that part about Jazz fans when I typed the message above. What I just read about in regard to that is truly disgusting. I'm still going to maintain that telling people to shut up isn't helping anyone.


----------



## Vanilla

“Well I read it on Twitter, so it’s true!”

-1eye


----------



## Jedidiah

Keep in mind that Vanilla has me on ignore, so he's not seeing my side of the conversation. While I'll admit Vanilla is mostly a good guy, his reactions here are a perfect example of the things we're going to see from both sides of this debate if we tell each other to shut up all the time. Choosing not to get all the details because you're angry doesn't help you make it right. That's it, I'll let you guys get back to your sportsballs unless you want to tell me how some of my comments are stupid 1-I, and I'll listen.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> "Well I read it on Twitter, so it's true!"
> 
> -1eye


From literally the players families and friends......yes I'm gonna buy it.


----------



## RandomElk16

So.. How bout this series?


Lol.



I hope these teams have the same fire next series. It seems that Spida and Murray are elevating eachother. They need to keep that same energy against the Clippers. After looking at the Mavs series, and watching this one... I genuinely think one of these teams has potential to beat the Clippers. Outside of Kawhi I don't think they are clicking like they should. 

I am a big time "Jazz let everyone down and don't play to their level" guy if I am being honest.. and right now it seems to me this series has jumpstarted both these teams to the level they should ALWAYS be able to perform. They aren't just playing "sound basketball", which is fine to an extent. Right now they are actually playing with some dang passion! Love it.


----------



## PBH

You could see that loss coming from the 1st quarter.

Mitchell needs help. He's proven time and again that he just cannot win these games by himself. Joe, O'Neal, Clarkson all need to step up. Gobert needs someone besides Conley to give him the ball once in a while. We should not be running our offense through Niang in the 4th quarter. And, for the love of all that is holy, play some defense!! Denver supposedly has the worst defense in the league. Utah is proving their's is worse.


----------



## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> And, for the love of all that is holy, play some defense!! Denver supposedly has the worst defense in the league. Utah is proving their's is worse.


Some of those shots JM was making though were ridiculous. He was covered well or had a hand in his face and just couldn't miss. He has just been playing lights out.


----------



## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> Some of those shots JM was making though were ridiculous. He was covered well or had a hand in his face and just couldn't miss. He has just been playing lights out.


Like Barkley said, someone needs to hit him. You can't just continue to let a guy hit shot, after shot, after shot....

...better make sure he's thinking about it next time.

seriously though, the Jazz defense is just not there. Murray is good, and he's certainly thriving right now, but the Jazz aren't doing anything to prevent it. It's a good thing we tanked to get Murray, and not Harden!


----------



## caddis8

Utah had them figured out for 2 games, and then Denver got more physical- and wanted it more. Utah didn't handle the pressure well and role players didn't play good roles. 

I don't have much room to talk, but holy crap, if Murray keeps torching you, why don't they go over the top of a screen, deny the ball, foul him, something to disrupt his rhythm. Step back, step back, side step, no drive. 

Utah gave up so many offensive rebounds in Game 5, and some in Game 6, that Denver just wanted the ball more. Refs swallowed their whistles the last two games (typical playoff reffing- which I'm not opposed to) but criminey! They turned off their defense in the last two games and got out played and out coached.


----------



## Vanilla

Utah sucking on defense and getting out-rebounded? 

Sounds like they ought to fire up that super-max for Rudy!!!


----------



## PBH

so, serious question here: what is a travel?

We watched Murray torch us last night. A couple times, he would step back (both feet) behind the 3-point line without a dribble. So, I'm just trying to understand: what is traveling?


It's not just Murray either. Mitchell takes a lot of steps too -- they always call it "euro-step", which is a fancy way to justify traveling.

Maybe I'm crazy? Am I the only one that thinks moving both feet, then jumping without a dribble is a travel?

#TOTP


----------



## Vanilla

NBA does not have a traveling violation anymore. James Harden can take 5 steps without getting called. It became so ridiculous that people just stopped talking about it.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Utah sucking on defense and getting out-rebounded?
> 
> Sounds like they ought to fire up that super-max for Rudy!!!


Teams have figured out Rudy. They load up multiple bigs and keep Rudy pretty well squished.

What we're missing right now is a Favors. Niang is not a Favors.
I'd like to see the Jazz play Morgan alongside Gobert. I mean, they'll throw Bradley, Niang, Morgan, Clarkson, and O'Neale on the court at once....


----------



## caddis8

as a certified, registered, card carrying amateur varsity high school official- I HATE euro step. 

It is tricky to call travel on those because it he ball/dribble hasn't been picked up, then they have the ability to establish a pivot foot and that's what they do. If you stop with two feet, then either foot can be the pivot foot, but if you change pivot feet, travel. 

But PBH, I agree. Illegal screens also. Utah does plenty, but old Plumlee is old school enforcer. IE- dirty. Utah needs a guy like him.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> I'd like to see the Jazz play Morgan alongside Gobert.


We might see that tomorrow. I think Quinn knows the defense needs to be shaken up.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> Teams have figured out Rudy.


Which brings me back to my point a LONG time ago, he is not a super-max player. Teams don't just "figure out" super-max players.


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> Which brings me back to my point a LONG time ago, he is not a super-max player. Teams don't just "figure out" super-max players.


What about Spida? Assuming conservative social media warriors don't run him out of town.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish

Watching the game yesterday, I think the thing the Jazz are missing the most is another scorer. 



Bojan is a huge loss. 



Murray was unreal. Not many teams will beat the nuggets with his performance yesterday and the Jazz made it close and Donovan was huge part. 



Clarkson had an off night and that was the difference. (-24)


Niang also struggled even though his box score stats are decent other than the plus minus -19. He needs to rebound more or at least put a body on guys.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> Which brings me back to my point a LONG time ago, he is not a super-max player. Teams don't just "figure out" super-max players.


I agree. The Jazz need to find a way to trade Rudy and get something and make everything about Donovan. You may even want to see if you can get anything for Ingles. Quins rotations last night were just not good. Niang should not be getting any minutes. There are tougher players on that bench.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Catherder said:


> What about Spida? Assuming conservative social media warriors don't run him out of town.


Donovan is worth every penny they can give him as long as he'll take it, but yeah, the conservative idiots in this state are doing us no favors in keeping him around. Donovan's commitment to the franchise was/is real from a lot of things I've seen and things people have said, and so long as he isn't completely off-put by the conservative idiots in his social media mentions the Jazz should do all they can to build around him. It's funny, Donovan is a super star player like the franchise has never had, from everything everyone says about him I've seen that knows him he's a very loyal dude and is(at least was) very committed to making things work here, and the ultra conservative MAGA idiots will be the reason if he decides he needs to leave at some point in the near future. Donovan is also someone who other players, not stars, but tier 2 tier 3 players I think the Jazz would have a chance at signing due to him being with the franchise. The Jazz the past couple years have got guys in for pre-draft workouts they had difficulties getting in before he was on the team and knew many of them. The Jazz have a bona-fide star and it's literally a fraction of the fanbase that is so concerned about being ignorant with their Ben Shapiro talking points they'll lose him. And PS they lose Donovan because he felt the fanbase was racist when he spoke up for racial issues important to him and how liked and respected he is around the league....you may consider relocating the team because good luck getting any black player to want to play here after he gave this place himself for 3 years and the community couldn't give him the same respect back.

I applaud Gail Miller because I'm not sure Larry would have been willing to defend or back his players like she has during all this even at the cost of losing fans and making people uncomfortable. It'd be nice if the fanbase would come along for the ride.

ABC4 ran a story on how some of the NBAs messaging may not sit well with some of the fanbase. Here's his response if you're uncomfortable


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299741489828900865
https://kslsports.com/440887/donovan-mitchell-dont-like-nba-message-dont-watch/


----------



## Vanilla

Catherder said:


> What about Spida? Assuming conservative social media warriors don't run him out of town.


Spida has to go through his next contract before we talk about the super-max. Give him 4 more years and we'll talk. But even then, let's assume he was coming up to the end of that second deal, he is going to have to do more to be able to even qualify for the super-max. At this point he would not be not eligible based upon his on-court recognitions. I think he can get there, and if he does, I would pay him that money. You can ride a wing to a title more easily these days than you can a big.

Rudy is a fine player. He's probably the best center in the league, and if not, definitely top 3 at his position. His biggest strength is being shown to be "easily" neutralized. (I use air quotes because we know it isn't easy...but you get the point.)

If Donovan Mitchell leaves Utah it will not be because of politics. It will be because he realizes that he can make a lot more money (off the court) and have a better chance of winning elsewhere. Some folks just have to stop with all the doom and gloom, because they don't know what they're talking about.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> Spida has to go through his next contract before we talk about the super-max. Give him 4 more years and we'll talk. But even then, let's assume he was coming up to the end of that second deal, he is going to have to do more to be able to even qualify for the super-max. At this point he would not be not eligible based upon his on-court recognitions. I think he can get there, and if he does, I would pay him that money. You can ride a wing to a title more easily these days than you can a big.
> 
> Rudy is a fine player. He's probably the best center in the league, and if not, definitely top 3 at his position. His biggest strength is being shown to be "easily" neutralized. (I use air quotes because we know it isn't easy...but you get the point.)
> 
> If Donovan Mitchell leaves Utah it will not be because of politics. It will be because he realizes that he can make a lot more money (off the court) and have a better chance of winning elsewhere. Some folks just have to stop with all the doom and gloom, because they don't know what they're talking about.


To qualify for the supermax he will just have to make All NBA the year he's eligible or 2 out of the last 3 seasons before he's eligible. I really have no doubts he will make at least 3rd team All NBA. In the coming years and he will qualify.

The perspective is this. No player offered a max rookie extension of 5/years full max has turned it down under the current CBA. If he doesn't take the full 5 year extension he will be the first player not to take it. That contract would take him through 2026. If he forces a trade in the next couple years or doesn't sign that full 5 year max extension it is absolutely because the fanbase alienated him because it was not a question whatsoever and had even been reported by people close to him he was signing it. Then you had the idiots in his comment section, it did piss him off a lot, he flat out said it did in his first interview back to town when asked about it. Everything matters when you're trying to keep a player like him happy. I think he gave this community his all for 3 years on and off the court and he felt pretty stabbed in the back over the pushback he's gotten from a place he defended over and over (including about the label of being a racist place) and gave his time and effort towards helping change the culture and reputation here, and idiot fans just undercut his efforts. He flat out said "Utah has a stigma about it, there's no secret about that. I can only speak for myself but I've given my all for 3 years and to see that (those comments) I'm not gonna lie to you it did piss me off, and obviously those comments didn't help with the stigma". I think the point is in 2026, he may leave, Utah May lose him far sooner if the fanbase can't shut the **** up with their bulls*** conservative/MAGA/Ben Shapiroesk talking points on racial issues. I promise you Utah. You can learn more from him on racial issues than he can learn from you. He has been nothing but embracing of a place most the country and especially NBA circles makes fun of. He has been involved in this community. And some of y'all, are chasing him out of town. I love how every person in his mentions opposing him has the same stuff in their profile "LDS" "BYU fan" and most live in Utah county literally one of the top least diverse places in the country. Yes the fanbase absolutely matters. Money off the court will play as well, but if there's literally no benefit to playing here such as a community he can feel connected to to or a community he feels is connected to him, he is gone. Dame has done just fine in Portland, and Donovan has more endorsements than any Jazz player ever has. He's literally the type of dude you have to have in a small market who can market himself wordwide and be fine wherever he's at. And some of the ultra conservative idiots in this state can't stand he ain't going to shutup and dribble.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

If your reaction to the statement black lives matter is "all lives matter" you are part of the problem. If your reaction to instances of racism is "what about Chicago" you are part of the problem. What about all the white on white crime? What about the issues of prescription drug addiction among white people? Trying to bait and switch the conversation is ignorant. And those sorts of comments are not at all helpful to the dialogue.


----------



## Vanilla

#1DEER 1-I said:


> If your reaction to the statement black lives matter is "all lives matter" you are part of the problem. If your reaction to instances of racism is "what about Chicago" you are part of the problem. What about all the white on white crime? What about the issues of prescription drug addiction among white people? Trying to bait and switch the conversation is ignorant. And those sorts of comments are not at all helpful to the dialogue.


What on earth does this have to do with the NBA restart? Go take it somewhere else 1eye.

Seriously. Go start a new thread that you can get locked down with your stupidity, don't try to hijack this one that is about basketball.


----------



## Ray

not all black lives matter to black lives matter, if they did, you would hear them coming out about that police chief that was shot in the head, or that little girl that was shot in her car. not a **** word from BLM, because it doesn’t further the narrative they’re trying to push.

Bringing up black on black crime, or Chicago, is very relevant, especially if you’re trying to make the statement that black lives matter. The police issue doesn’t even account for one third of one percent of black homicides. The black on black homicide rate is upwards of 98%.

To sit there and point out the smallest issue statistically while ignoring the glaring issue looking you in the face is like someone b!tching about a 1” scratch on their car when the entire front end is smashed in and totaled.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Ray said:


> not all black lives matter to black lives matter, if they did, you would hear them coming out about that police chief that was shot in the head, or that little girl that was shot in her car. not a **** word from BLM, because it doesn't further the narrative they're trying to push.
> 
> Bringing up black on black crime, or Chicago, is very relevant, especially if you're trying to make the statement that black lives matter. The police issue doesn't even account for one third of one percent of black homicides. The black on black homicide rate is upwards of 98%.
> 
> To sit there and point out the smallest issue statistically while ignoring the glaring issue looking you in the face is like someone b!tching about a 1" scratch on their car when the entire front end is smashed in and totaled.


I'll DM you so Vanilla can relax


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> What on earth does this have to do with the NBA restart? Go take it somewhere else 1eye.
> 
> Seriously. Go start a new thread that you can get locked down with your stupidity, don't try to hijack this one that is about basketball.


Eh it does have something to do with the NBA restart, it does have to do with our NBA team. I'm trying to give some a perspective of why the ignorance of the fanbase is an issue for our NBA team and why Utah is labeled racist to the extent it is.

It'd be real nice if racism and Utah sports could stay out of the headlines for a month or something.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/rsl/2020/08/29/new-allegation-racist/


----------



## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> It'd be real nice if racism could stay out of the UWN threads or something.


Yep. Take it somewhere else 1Eye. You're the problem here. You're the only one bringing race into this discussion. You want a pedestal to stand on, start your own thread for it!

(where are the mods??)


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> Yep. Take it somewhere else 1Eye. You're the problem here. You're the only one bringing race into this discussion. You want a pedestal to stand on, start your own thread for it!
> 
> (where are the mods??)


I'm not, the entire NBA restart is. But hide from the convo. It's intertwined and will be until issues are fixed. Have a nice day PBH. Hopefully they pull out game 7.


----------



## Critter

Let the players bring the politics into it

This thread is about the restart of the NBA, the Jazz, and the Nuggets


----------



## Brettski7

#1DEER 1-I said:


> If your reaction to the statement black lives matter is "all lives matter" you are part of the problem. If your reaction to instances of racism is "what about Chicago" you are part of the problem. What about all the white on white crime? What about the issues of prescription drug addiction among white people? Trying to bait and switch the conversation is ignorant. And those sorts of comments are not at all helpful to the dialogue.


.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Brettski7 said:


> .....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Feel free to DM me if you have a response.


----------



## Vanilla

It took a game 7, but the Jazz/Nuggets finally get to step out of the little kid's sandbox for a time slot for tomorrow's game. 

What is going to happen tomorrow night?


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> It took a game 7, but the Jazz/Nuggets finally get to step out of the little kid's sandbox for a time slot for tomorrow's game.
> 
> What is going to happen tomorrow night?


Even on ABC too, personally, I think the Nuggets win. If Donovan goes off for like 50 again maybe the Jazz win but I feel like Joe has kinda checked out and is tired of the bubble, and the Nuggets have figured out how to beat the Jazz quite a bit. Quin is good at making adjustments but that's difficult to do in a must win situation like this.


----------



## Catherder

I wouldn't be surprised either way but I predict a close, hard fought game. 

Probably the winning team will be the one that has it's superstar play the best. Besides points, that includes facilitating teammates.


----------



## PBH

If Donovan scores 50, the Jazz are in trouble. 

In order for us to win, we need contributions from other players. We need all 5 starters in double figures, with a couple of them (Gobert, Conley) closer to 20. Clarkson needs to have a big game.


I don't think we can do it.


----------



## Vanilla

Debbie Downers!

Jazz by 8+ points tonight. Bring on the Clippers!


----------



## PBH

thanks Vanilla. Now we're doomed!

:?


----------



## Vanilla

Nah, I didn't guarantee it. Jazz should be fine.


----------



## 3arabians

Welp, time to watch some Cobra Kai! 😞


----------



## Vanilla

I blame all you negative nellies. 

80-78? What is this, 1997?!? 

Being up 3-1 and losing is kind of pathetic. I imagine that the bubble is absolutely exhausting, so I can see hitting a wall. But everyone is there the same. They have no excuse to not be playing later this week.


----------



## Critter

The way that I see it they should of won the series 4-0. That back court violation in game 1 could of been the difference in the whole series.


----------



## Catherder

I got the close correct. :-? Dang, it was quite a series. 

I was on the road listening to Lockes radio call, so I'm not prepared to talk authoritatively, but it sounded like both teams ran out of gas and the nugs made one more shot than we did. It's too bad we fell behind so much in the first half.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

That was tough, good game in the end but they played way to much like they didn’t want to win for 2 and a half games. So long as Mitchell wears the uniform the Jazz have gold though.


----------



## PBH

Catherder said:


> ... but it sounded like both teams ran out of gas and the nugs made one more shot than we did.


I don't think so.

I think we got out coached. I think we have too many holes (PG, SF, PF, Bench). We have no scoring after Mitchell.

Time to clean house. Keep Mitchell and Gobert. Sign Ingles to a coaching role. Get rid of everyone else.


----------



## Vanilla

I finally watched the ending sequence. That was a BRUTAL turnover by Spida. Just terrible. 

His first half and last 15 seconds of game 7 leave a lot to be desired. Not to mention his giant error and last couple minutes and OT disappearing act in game 1. We’ll see how he bounces next year. He’s got some growing to do.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish

PBH said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I think we got out coached. I think we have too many holes (PG, SF, PF, Bench). We have no scoring after Mitchell.
> 
> Time to clean house. Keep Mitchell and Gobert. Sign Ingles to a coaching role. Get rid of everyone else.





PBH said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I think we got out coached. I think we have too many holes (PG, SF, PF, Bench). We have no scoring after Mitchell.
> 
> Time to clean house. Keep Mitchell and Gobert. Sign Ingles to a coaching role. Get rid of everyone else.


I disagree.

We missed Bojan a lot. He was that scorer we were missing. You put him Conley and Mitchell around Gobert, then it is different series. Even with Murray going Bananas.

We do need another Bench scorer other than Clarkson though.


----------



## Vanilla

So basically all you need to win in the NBA is a budding star at wing, a really good big man, a couple 20 point scorers surrounding them in the starting lineup, and multiple consistent scorers off the bench?

Well, that ought to be easy to put together! :grin:


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I think we got out coached. I think we have too many holes (PG, SF, PF, Bench). We have no scoring after Mitchell.
> 
> Time to clean house. Keep Mitchell and Gobert. Sign Ingles to a coaching role. Get rid of everyone else.


I few things to unpack here. First, while I do believe a case can be made that we were outcoached in the latter end of the series, I don't think the 4th quarter necessarily qualifies there. Denver almost boneheaded us the series in the final sequence and part of that goes to Malone.

As for the team, I agree with Muscle that our scoring is fine. Bojan isn't going anywhere. Neither is Conley for 1 more year. Combined with Spida, that is decent scoring. What we don't have is wing defense beyond Royce, (and I might argue he could be overrated) and depth. Everyone loves Joe, but he started to look washed up this year. Clarkson is a FA and yes, he can score, but his "D" is a sieve. The rest of the bench is a bunch of nonentities.

If we could get Favors or someone like Favors that would help. In addition, adding a solid defensive rotation player like Lugentz Dort or Anthony Roberson, our team would be greatly improved overall. The price tag wouldn't be beyond reasonable either.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Well, that ought to be easy to put together! :grin:


To be honest, it is easy. It just takes money. Look at the top payrolls in the NBA then compare to the list of teams in the playoffs this year. All of the top 5 made the playoffs, and 3 of those advanced to R2.

1. Portland
2. Milwaukee (advanced to R2)
3. Miami (advanced to R2)
4. OKC
5. LA Clippers (advanced to R2)


----------



## PBH

MuscleWhitefish said:


> We do need another Bench scorer other than Clarkson though.


We need an entire bench! You cannot look at our bench (Bradley, Morgan, Niang, Mudiay, Oni, Tucker...) and think "we have a good bench". Heck, you can't even think "we have a mediocre bench". Our bench is bad.

I'd like to have Favors back. The biggest concern with Favors is just his age and health. I'd still take him.

Another big loss from a defensive standpoint was Crowder. Our defense just has not been the same since losing both of those guys.

I'd take Neto over Mudiay.

Speaking of Ingles -- anyone remember what Barkley said after game 6 concerning Murray? Something to the effect of "someone needs to hit him". Ingles knee to thigh collision in game 7 slowed Murray significantly. This is where a Jay Crowder could have come into play in games 4, 5, 6. Crowder was a "tough guy" and wouldn't have been above taking a hard foul. We currently don't have that "guy" on our team.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish

PBH said:


> We need an entire bench! You cannot look at our bench (Bradley, Morgan, Niang, Mudiay, Oni, Tucker...) and think "we have a good bench". Heck, you can't even think "we have a mediocre bench". Our bench is bad.
> 
> I'd like to have Favors back. The biggest concern with Favors is just his age and health. I'd still take him.
> 
> Another big loss from a defensive standpoint was Crowder. Our defense just has not been the same since losing both of those guys.
> 
> I'd take Neto over Mudiay.
> 
> Speaking of Ingles -- anyone remember what Barkley said after game 6 concerning Murray? Something to the effect of "someone needs to hit him". Ingles knee to thigh collision in game 7 slowed Murray significantly. This is where a Jay Crowder could have come into play in games 4, 5, 6. Crowder was a "tough guy" and wouldn't have been above taking a hard foul. We currently don't have that "guy" on our team.


There are not many options out there and it depends on who you can develop and afford.

There is a report of Mitchell getting the super max when FA opens, which will only hamper the depth.

With Bojan back, O'Neal goes to the bench - which makes the bench a bit better.

Clarkson, Royce, Bradley (Who is still young), Morgan (Who is still developing), is a decent start.

I don't know who you could bring in and afford to do better with the cap situation.

I think the Jazz are a far cry from blowing it up, then just need to reload where they can.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> Another big loss from a defensive standpoint was Crowder. Our defense just has not been the same since losing both of those guys.


While his 'green light" from 3 used to drive me crazy, that is exactly what I'm talking about. We really do miss that. Getting someone like that wouldn't break the bank either. Also, to reinforce my previous point, both Favors and Crowder were "defensive" guys. While Favors could get a key bucket from time to time, their contributions were on the defensive end. I think getting some defensive improvement won't break the bank either.


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## PBH

Catherder said:


> While Favors could get a key bucket from time to time, their contributions were on the defensive end.


Favors defense would certainly help out overall. But don't discount his offense! He averaged 11.8 points in 2018-19 with the Jazz. Since 2013 he has averaged 12.6 points per game.

FWIW: Bojan = 14pts career average. Sure, his time with Utah is significantly better.

O'Neale? 5pts/game.

I'd keep Morgan. And Brantley.
Oni? Tucker? Bradley? There are options to replace them. Heck, Plumlee and Jerami Grant showed their value in this series...

The free agent list has numerous upgrades at affordable prices.


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## Critter

You also have to look at how long the Jazz will be able to hold onto Mitchel. There are reports that he is going to sign a "max extension" as soon as free agency opens up but you never know when the $$$$$$ start getting flashed around. 

There have been a number of other players that have used the Jazz as a stepping stone to go to another team. Some were good and some were bad but it was the Jazz loss.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> To be honest, it is easy. It just takes money. Look at the top payrolls in the NBA then compare to the list of teams in the playoffs this year. All of the top 5 made the playoffs, and 3 of those advanced to R2.
> 
> 1. Portland
> 2. Milwaukee (advanced to R2)
> 3. Miami (advanced to R2)
> 4. OKC
> 5. LA Clippers (advanced to R2)


You say some crazy things, but this is incoherent. It's easy to get a Giannis Antetekumpo? It's easy to get a Jimmy Butler? It's easy to get a Kawhi Leanord? Because those are all things the Jazz don't have and don't even have close to a comparable right now.

Portland made it 5 games into the first round and only even made the playoffs because of the funky bubble system they did. Is that your goal? Go spend money like Portland and maybe make the playoffs as the 8 seed? Great example!

C'mon man. That was a terrible post. I'll give you a chance to retract it before judging you too harshly.

Between 1eye using twitter as his validation of conclusive facts and you saying "all we need to do is draft the MVP, it's easy"...this place has gone bonkers!


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## Vanilla

Donovan Mitchell can’t get the super-max contract on his next contract. He hasn’t been in the league long enough. And just like I said a couple pages ago, even if he had been in league long enough, he hasn’t met the qualifications for it. So no need to worry about that in the short term. 

Spida is a restricted free agent in 2021. The Jazz will make him a max offer and he’ll have to stay with them regardless. There will be no offer that goes unmatched there. The deal the Jazz will offer will be a 5 year deal. What should worry the Jazz is if another team gives him a 3 year offer sheet and he signs it. That will tell you that you have a short term rental only and moving him for all you can get will be the wise decision.


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## PBH

'nilla -- I didn't say Utah had the money to do it. I pointed out that other teams simply spend money, and it works for them. Look at Miami. Look at the Clippers. They shelled out the money to superstars, and they end up in the playoffs. It works.

I never said anything about a draft.

Can Utah lure a superstar with money? I don't know. Maybe Donovan Mitchell in a Jazz uniform would make Utah a more attractive place for someone like Jimmy Butler or Giannis?

Or, maybe the Miller family should consider spending money in other areas in an attempt to bring in higher end tallent? Instead of car dealerships, maybe they invest in strip clubs? I hear the chicken wings are amazing...


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## Vanilla

The whole point is the Jazz didn’t need to spend Portland money to be a better team. Spending money doesn’t always equal success. See the attachment. 11 of those teams spending more than the Jazz would trade situations with them tomorrow without blinking. A handful of others are basically equal to their situation and a push. The few the Jazz would want to be have top 5 players, and the Jaxz would happily pay the tax for Kawhi or LeBron.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Spida is a restricted free agent in 2021. The Jazz will make him a max offer and he'll have to stay with them regardless.


Rookie max 5 year extension for $170M.



Donovan Mitchell said:


> This is just the beginning...


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## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> I finally watched the ending sequence. That was a BRUTAL turnover by Spida. Just terrible.
> 
> His first half and last 15 seconds of game 7 leave a lot to be desired. Not to mention his giant error and last couple minutes and OT disappearing act in game 1. We'll see how he bounces next year. He's got some growing to do.


Context:he's 23


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## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> Donovan Mitchell can't get the super-max contract on his next contract. He hasn't been in the league long enough. And just like I said a couple pages ago, even if he had been in league long enough, he hasn't met the qualifications for it. So no need to worry about that in the short term.
> 
> Spida is a restricted free agent in 2021. The Jazz will make him a max offer and he'll have to stay with them regardless. There will be no offer that goes unmatched there. The deal the Jazz will offer will be a 5 year deal. What should worry the Jazz is if another team gives him a 3 year offer sheet and he signs it. That will tell you that you have a short term rental only and moving him for all you can get will be the wise decision.


The report is that they'll come to terms on a 5 year $155-170 million deal (cap is yet to be determined). I doubt he'll have an option on the last year, that's the leverage the team has by giving it to him a year earlier than they have to, so they don't have to give him the option. That being said, he can ask for a trade any time and he's going to get his wish. Whether he would do that idk. I attached a part of the article I thought was interesting that it was some of his teammates wondering if he'd commit long term. It appears he will contractually. As far as trades, you just never know.


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## Vanilla

He’s 23. He’s got growing to do. 

And he’s going to sign his contract with the Jazz like I said? 

So we agree? Yet you’re trying to argue. You’re a special kind of special 1eye. Definitely one of a kind.


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## PBH

that bubble is starting to swell. I wonder how much longer it will hold? I guess as more teams are eliminated, the better chance it has....of course, the longer some of these guys are in the bubble, the more desperate they're going to get...

https://www.complex.com/sports/2020...nuel-house-nba-investigation-bubble-violation


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## Vanilla

Do you have a monthly subscription to Complex Magazine too?


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## CPAjeff

PBH said:


> that bubble is starting to swell. I wonder how much longer it will hold? I guess as more teams are eliminated, the better chance it has....of course, the longer some of these guys are in the bubble, the more desperate they're going to get...
> 
> https://www.complex.com/sports/2020...nuel-house-nba-investigation-bubble-violation


No hiding that escapade from his wife, or girlfriend, or mother. :shock:


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Do you have a monthly subscription to Complex Magazine too?


none of the other outlets reported what was being investigated. Espn didn't mention that it was because a woman got past multiple security checkpoints and into a players room - let alone that multiple players were involved, and not just one. I had to do some searching to find an outlet that spilled the beans. Complex came through. :noidea:


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## Vanilla

So who wins the big one tonight?

Chiefs or Texans? 

:grin:


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## PBH

Phillies.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> Phillies.


Never heard of her.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Never heard of her.


you need a hug, my friend:


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## Vanilla

I really do! No doubt about that.


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> you need a hug, my friend:


Poor gal, shes kind of homely........................


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## PBH

Catherder said:


> Poor gal, shes kind of homely........................


I'm not sure "homely" is the correct description.






or were you referring to Vanilla?


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## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> that bubble is starting to swell. I wonder how much longer it will hold?


Lol chill....


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> I'm not sure "homely" is the correct description.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or were you referring to Vanilla?


Both? :noidea:


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## Vanilla

I’m not homely. Portly, bald, and dumb...maybe. But not homely!


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## Catherder

Got home in time to watch the second half the Nugs-Clips game 7. 

Is it just me or is it surprising to others to see the Clippers mail it in like this? 
Were George and Leonard even playing in the second half? 


I guess the Jazz didn't do so badly after all. If the Conley shot went in...............


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## Vanilla

How about my Nuggets!?!?


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## PBH

I can hop on the Nuggets wagon!


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## Catherder

Maybe we all are too busy right now with other stuff, (I know I am) but game 5 the other evening was a lot of fun. Jimmy Butler has been something else in the playoffs. 

Hope it is as good tonight.


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## Vanilla

That really was a fantastic basketball game. I haven’t been that entertained by an NBA game in a couple years. 

Lakers bullying them in the first half so far. Playoff Rondo is a different cat.


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## Catherder

Tonight's game is as bad as Friday's was good. 

Oh, well. It's been fun.


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## Vanilla

#Witness the GOAT tonight. Dude is unreal.


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## PBH

interesting. I had no idea the NBA was still going on. Glad it finally finished.

I was watching a re-run of the PBA Elias Cup. The Las Vegas Highrollers looked pretty good, and I thought they might have a chance to dethrone the Portland (ME) Lumberjacks. But, in the end, I think the experience of the Lumberjacks paid dividends as they pulled out the victory. Wes "Big Nasty" Malott is a seriously intimidating dude! Even more so when wearing a corona mask!!


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> interesting. I had no idea the NBA was still going on. Glad it finally finished.
> 
> I was watching a re-run of the PBA Elias Cup. The Las Vegas Highrollers looked pretty good, and I thought they might have a chance to dethrone the Portland (ME) Lumberjacks. But, in the end, I think the experience of the Lumberjacks paid dividends as they pulled out the victory. Wes "Big Nasty" Malott is a seriously intimidating dude! Even more so when wearing a corona mask!!


Not watching baseball?


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## Critter

Catherder said:


> Not watching baseball?


Baseball's still going on??????


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## PBH

well.....the Phillies, in typical fashion, had an epic collapse at the end of the "regular" season. I have lost interest since then.

it's been interesting for me lately -- I really have not watched very many professional sporting events for the last few months. I have lost nearly all interest in the NFL, with the exception of Alex Smith. It was great to hear that he returned to action on Sunday, even if the results were not spectacular. Bowling has been fun to watch. MMA has been pretty good too. After that, I guess I'm just enjoying not being tied to the TV in the evenings...


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