# fouling?



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

so I swab my barrel pretty well after each shot when sighting in. But I don't foul the barrel with any primer caps after that swab before the next shot. Should I be fouling the barrel before? and also when I do that finally cleaning after I'm sighted in, should I foul the barrel in camp before I load my hunting round? thanks for any tips, I really hadn't ever thought much about it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Firing caps really isn't fouling the barrel, now if you fired a loaded round with powder then that would foul the barrel. I always ask people if they only take one shot and then clean or swab the barrel of their rifles when they are in the field and hunting. Usually the answer is no and that they wait until they get back to their vehicle or camp to swab or clean the barrel. 

Firing caps after cleaning is a good habit to get into to. In the first place it will clean out the primer hole of the rifle to where you should not get a misfire with powder. I have a friend that was anal about cleaning his ML. He cleaned it every day when he was done hunting. Well one day he didn't pop a couple of caps before loading it. Can you guess what happened? He had a nice bull elk in his sights and pulled the trigger, the cap went pop and nothing else happened. He put another cap on it and it went pop also. It took another two caps to get to the point that the rifle fired.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Really the only guns that need fouling are overbore roundball guns. Those you shoot a squib load to "foul it". Most modern rifles shoot best out of a clean barrel.

I personally never snap a cap. My cleaning is meticulous, I use acetylene torch cleaning kits to keep the nipple clean, I keep grease and oil out of it and make sure I can see light through it prior to loading it up for hunting season.

-DallanC


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

Back when I used to oil my barrel too much after cleaning I would snap a cap with a little bit a powder in the barrel to burn the oil out but I have since learned to not use liquid gun oil and just use a light cote of bore butter and dont have the problem. I think it depends on what you are shooting; I can shoot patched balls almost all day without cleaning and keep nearly consistent shots but then a patched ball somewhat lubes and cleans as you load it. They do sometimes get a little hard to load if I'm using thicker patches; if that happens then I do have to run a brush up and down a few times. I don't shoot sabots because I shoot a .45 and I've never seen any to try but powerbelts shoot well for me, I can shoot 10 or so before I really start to notice a problem; other conicals I have shot I can generally do similar. With open sights it's hard to tell if it's the gun or me. Again a brush and a patched ball loosens things up for 5 or so more shots. My brother shoots a .50 with sabots and he can only shoot 2-3 before his accuracy is gone and he has to clean. My Dad and other brother shoot .54 with Hornady GP bullets (shoulder busters) and see similar to me. When I hunt I generally don't pull the trigger more than once or twice so I only clean it when the hunt is over.
What are you shooting?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Mavis13 said:


> ... but I have since learned to not use liquid gun oil and just use a light cote of bore butter and dont have the problem.


Excellent advice. I switched to Bore butter decades ago and never had a problem since. Oil is for centerfire rifles. I rub some borebutter on my patch, work it in with my fingers, I dont want excess, just a semi-saturated patch. I then reverse it, so the side I applied the butter to is against the rod and work it up and down the barrel. It puts just enough of a thin coating to protect the barrel with no fear of plugging it up with excess.

-DallanC


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I always pop a cap on a small amount of powder before I load up for the hunt. I figure it not only cleans the nipple, but also any moisture that might be inside the barrel. When I'm hunting I don't want anything to go wrong. That "POP" and no roar afterword is a sickening sound.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bears Butt said:


> I always pop a cap on a small amount of powder before I load up for the hunt. I figure it not only cleans the nipple, but also any moisture that might be inside the barrel. When I'm hunting I don't want anything to go wrong. That "POP" and no roar afterword is a sickening sound.


I do not use water for cleaning anything but a hawkin. I use Windex (patches lightly damp) for all my other smokepoles, it has no water and evaporates extremely quickly leaving no residue.

-DallanC


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

The moisture can condense on to a metal surface, i.e. barrel. Hence the good practice of popping a cap.


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## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

Always pop 2 or 3 primers or caps before loading, imo it doesnt matter what you clean with. Your just asking for a misfire or hang fire if you dont. Also before you pop caps or primers its also a good idea to run dry patch down the barrel.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I switched to the windex for cleaning a couple of years ago. Has worked like a charm.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I always use windex at the range between shots and at home I just use warm water on the copper brush. Guess I won't worry about firing off any primers because I don't use any oil or anything.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

If I don't foul my barrel I my first shot is 4-6 in below the rest after I have cleaned my gun.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

So having just finished cleaning my muzzy, I gave Windex a shot (yes pun intended) and though it cleans ok I still had to use hot water to finish. I needed it to flush the side lock. I'm guessing you windexers are shooting inlines? 
I shot today at 130yds and kept all my shots (9 powerbelts) on a 8.5x11 target I printed except one where I totally flinched and nailed my target holder.
with old school open sights I'm happy with that. I did us the whole paper and none were on the bulls eye. I'm interested in trying a peep sight to see if that would tighten things up any.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I have an inline and hawkin styles. I use water for the hawkin, windex for everything else.

For your rifle, what gun is it again? I would consider a group like that terrible. Its hard to tell if its your load, gun, sights or rest causing the issue. I shoot off a rock solid rest that eliminates all "me" hopefully from the equation. For shooting, I use the 50yard rimfire targets, they are big enough you can see around your front post at 100 yards. I also NEVER cover my POI with the front post. I use the tippy top of the front post as my designated POI, and frame it properly in the rear sight (I really hold'em low and tight). It allows for much finer aiming.

My eyes have gone to crap over the past 4 years, its amazing how fast they can degrade but all my smokepoles are under still 2" on paper. I have targets from the Hawkin from a few years back under 1". I rebarreled that gun with a 1/28" twist barrel kit and its a tack driver. No difference between it or the inline on paper. My boy is going to try it this year, cant wait to see him touch it off while aimed at a deer. 

-DallanC


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

TC Hawken from the early 70's but the sights are not Original. It has the 1/48.
I was resting/balancing it on a fence post shooting it at the side of the hill. It will do better at the range, but not as good as you. Or perhaps it will but I'm the weak link. I too just use the very tip of the sight. I like to be able to see what I'm aiming at. I shoot a patched ball much better but they won't let me hunt with it any more, too lite. I've never found a conical I've loved, powerbelts are just the best I could get. That's the struggle with a .45.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Had a T/C Hawkin years ago and had problem with hang fires. Called T/C and a young man told me to try removing the nipple putting some fine powder in the nipple hole and replaceing the nipple. Then fire as usual. Worked like a charm. No hangfires, no misfires. takes a lilttle extra time, but for the first shot you have a sure result.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I always put a little powder under the nipple when hunting. Only have seen one hang fire while doing this but I'd been rained on all day. Recapped and it fired fine; but I did miss the deer. I almost never see a hang fire otherwise but I sill feel better while hunting pre-charging the nipple. I shoot pyrodex P (aka fffg) when I pull the nipple to pre-charge it often it's already full of powder due to the finer size. DallenC's got me feeling bad so now I've got to take it to the range as I've not had it there in a very long time and see if I can improve the performance. I've been shooting the recomended load of 90gr of pyrodex but I just read that many are dropping it to 80gr and getting better groups. I just hate shooting that many powerbelts; they just cost too much. I'd like to find something cheaper/better.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I never have to put powder under the nipple... just loading the rifle forces powder in there. As apart of my pre-hunt prep I do remove the hawkin nipple to make sure I see powder under it, as well as make sure the nipple is clear.

The inline, I remove the nipple and make sure its clean and clear before replacing and loading it up. I load both rifles the night before and leave them in the garage to acclimate to the temperatures.

Haha dont feel bad about those groups, IMO I think part of the problem is your rest. I shoot off this thing, with a bunny ear sandbag under the rear stock to hold it tight:

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/19-general-hunting-hunting-gear/49137-gun-rest-ideas-2.html

I honestly think you have a different brand barrel though, I am unaware of TC making a faster twist barrel from that far back. My hawkin was made in 1976 and had the 1/48 twist, I rebarreled it later with a Green Mt Barrel kit. Is yours stamped TC and verified 1/28 twist?

-DallanC


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

Mine is a 1/48 I was asleep at the keyboard last night I noticed it this morning a corrected my post. It's a TC (4 digit sn) but I don't believe it actually says what the twist is I think I read it in the booklet or somewhere. It's easy enough to check I have a look at it tonight.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Now we're getting some where! 1/48" is a hybrid "jack of all trades" type twist, not really great for anything specific... too fast for round ball, too slow for most conicals.

I would recommend a hybrid type bullet, a Ball-et. To date, the best most accurate ball-et I found for that twist are these (walmart used to carry them, quit a few years back):

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=3632

If memory serves, I was getting 2-3" groups at 100 yards. Pretty darn good for that kind of gun. I think I was using 80grns FF at the time. I think alot guys including Bears Butt use the 375grn slugs, but BB can chime in on that and what twist his gun is.

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

These are similar to the Ball-et above, but with not as deep of a hollow tail end.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/73...s-50-caliber-512-diameter-240-grain-box-of-50

-DallanC


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Now we're getting some where! 1/48" is a hybrid "jack of all trades" type twist, not really great for anything specific... too fast for round ball, too slow for most conicals.
> 
> I would recommend a hybrid type bullet, a Ball-et. To date, the best most accurate ball-et I found for that twist are these (walmart used to carry them, quit a few years back):
> 
> ...


I have a .54 cal 1:48 TC Renegade, and had heard it was too fast for PRB's and too slow for conicals. Still, I've been pleased with the TC Maxi-Ball 430 grain conicals pushed by 90 grains of Pyrodex RS. Do you think I can do better if I try these out? http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=3676

Here's a 50 yd group from Saturday using the load mentioned above.


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