# Another henefer cow



## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

My brother and I went on saturday morning. Hiked in about 3 miles. Found this little bull with two others. Followed them up and over a couple ridges and finally closed the deal with a 180 yard shot from his 22-250. The elk jumped up out of his bed and went about 15 feet, wobbled and fell over. Lucky Randolph. Last year me and franklin, my other bro spent 5 days and alot more miles to fill our tags. Things were a little different this year. Also big thanks to a friend and a couple of johns!


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

22-250 on an elk?? :shock: I'd say he was lucky twice.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

The elks liver and lungs were not very lucky!


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Did you gut this one?.....Oh wait...I see...you did. :mrgreen: 
Come on, I couldn't resist.
Looks like you've got alot of meat for the freezer. Congrates to you guys for a job well-done.

By the way, your more than welcome to give me crap any time you want. Thanks for being a good sport.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

I try to use the gutless method but I like to eat liver and heart so after the legs are off we open up the rib cage to retrieve them. This one was not salvageable.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

10yearquest said:


> 180 yard shot from his 22-250.


Just curious, is it legal to hunt with a 22-250 for elk??? That caliber is made for varmits. 
Congrats on a really nice shot, but man that is scary stuff hunting with that small of a caliber. I have made some good shots on cow elk with my .270 and still had to track them down for quite a ways. I thought a .270 was on the smaller side for elk.
:shock:


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Were you out of 22 LR ammo? :roll: I think to be legal you have to hunt big game with .23 caliber and bigger.


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## riptheirlips (Jun 30, 2008)

HJB said:


> 10yearquest said:
> 
> 
> > 180 yard shot from his 22-250.
> ...


270 is one of the best guns for hunting in my opinion. I have killed at least 25 elk and one moose (one shot) with my 270. Killed a 6x6 with my 270 just 2 years ago.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Yeah... I caught a ton of flack for usin' a 22-250 on a doe deer hunt one year. I cannot believe someone would go out after an elk with one. GREAT hit, I will not argue... But I'm thinkin' this is a case of "It's better to be lucky, than good".


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Utah minimum for elk is a centerfire rifle with expanding bullets. In order to hunt elk it must generate 500 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards. I ran the balistics of a common 22-250 load using a 55gr bullet at 3675fps and came up with 618 ft/lbs of energy. With a close, well-placed shot he should be OK. However, a 22-250 is very, very marginal at best.


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## EmptyNet (Mar 17, 2008)

I would rather see a good shot with a 22-250 than a poor shot with a .338.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

EmptyNet said:


> I would rather see a good shot with a 22-250 than a poor shot with a .338.


I agree, it is all about shot placement!!


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Cool deal and good shot. Just curious, did you go in from the Croydon or Henefer side?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

10yearquest said:


> My brother and I went on saturday morning. Hiked in about 3 miles. Found this little bull with two others. Followed them up and over a couple ridges and finally closed the deal with a 180 yard shot from his 22-250. The elk jumped up out of his bed and went about 15 feet, wobbled and fell over. Lucky Randolph. Last year me and franklin, my other bro spent 5 days and alot more miles to fill our tags. Things were a little different this year. Also big thanks to a friend and a couple of johns!


Sorry, but I have to ask this question. Why did you title this thread "Another henefer cow"? Were you concerned about getting flack from the trophy hunters cause you may have killed a potential big'un? You were on an _antlerless_ elk hunt and taking a young antlerless bull is legal, ethical, and, IMHO, wise.

I have some reservations about the 22-250 caliber on an elk, especially at that distance, 'cause those light bullets (55-65 grains) lose velocity so quickly that a marginal hit would be problematic. However, in your case, the shooter was apparently familiar with the gun and knew it's and his capabilities, plus you took him while he was bedded. You knew what you were doing and I congratulate you on the kill. Ya done good!!!!


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

longbow said:


> In order to hunt elk it must generate 500 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.


The interesting thing is the standard you mentioned is only listed for handguns. Also minimum caliber is .24 for handguns but not specified for rifle.

I never, ever, ever critisize people on their harvest posts and I'm not going to start now. I just want to suggest than anyone reading this do a lot of asking around from people that hunt elk a lot before choosing an elk cartridge.

Nice shooting and nice cow fellas!


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

hoghunter011583 said:


> EmptyNet said:
> 
> 
> > I would rather see a good shot with a 22-250 than a poor shot with a .338.
> ...


This is over simplification and simply not accruate or you could take any game in the world with a .22LR. Shot placement is a extremely important. So is bullet construction, weight, and energy. All these elements work together to create a clean and ethical killl in a lot of hunting situations IMHO.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Nice job. Thanks for posting.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

bullsnot said:


> longbow said:
> 
> 
> > In order to hunt elk it must generate 500 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
> ...


Thanks for correcting me on that. What is the minimum for rifles?

10yearquest, don't worry about the flack


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> Thanks for correcting me on that. What is the minimum for rifles?


There is no minimum caliber for rifles. You must use a centerfire with expanding bullets.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

bullsnot said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > EmptyNet said:
> ...


First off I agree the the gun needs to fit the game, I shoot a .270 and would not shoot an Elk with anything less. I don't mean to come across with the opinion that if you hit the vitals you will kill the animal. However your comment about the .22LR is wrong. You can in fact kill any big game in the world with a .22LR IF you hit them in the right spot, even an Elephant. Obviously I'm not advocating using under powered guns, fact is you usually are not going to get that perfect shot at a really close range. Any rifle will kill an Elk at 20 yards but to shoot them at a realistic range you do need a gun with some guts. 
I was only pointing out that ANY rifle is fine, as long as you have the discipline to choose your shot. That not only means hitting the right spot but being close enough for your gun to have enough power to kill the animal.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

The elk is dead.......


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

So is this horse.....er I mean thread/topic.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

You're right....not sure what got into me. I've been a little gassy today and that makes me jumpy. Gotta constantly be looking over my shoulder to see who's around, makes me react quickly without thinking.

Congrats again to the hunter. Looks like a young tender elk. Yummy!!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Nice job on the elk. Now in joy those steaks this summer.Now this thread is why we don't see many pic and read story about people hunts.Don't worry about these guys that giving you ****. the elk is dead and in the freezer that all it matters.Again nice job.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree, in joy those steaks.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

thanks everyone. We knew full well we would get some flack but you cant really argue a dead elk. This topic has been around since before most of us were born I am sure and it will continue for along time still. Caliber chioce is highly personal and subject to emotion and opinion as well as personal experience. It makes for great conversation! Shoot what you have and shoot it well and you will never have a problem!

Oh and if anyone has this same tag and needs help feel free to PM me.


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## ripndrag (Mar 16, 2009)

was it a 60 grain nosler partion at 3800 fps ? if not o well its gonna eat good I have shot 2 cow/ baby /bulls on my cow hunts over the years. congrats and good job ,,,


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I happen to know from personal experienced 10yr is one of the most ethical hunters around. He knows what he's doing and I agree that a well placed shot with a 22-250 will beat a poor shot with a .338 any day. And you cant argue with his results. Which he has done time and time again. 

Very nice harvest 10yr. 8)


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

OK, lets see,
1) Well placed 22-250 & well placed .338...tie
2) Well placed 22-250 & pool placed .338...22-250... win
3) Poor placed 22-250 & well placed .338...338... win
4) poor placed 22-250 & poor placed .338... 338...win
.22-250= 50% kill
.338= 75% kill

Looks like the .338 is the winners...hands down.

Why shoot an under powered, little varmint gun that requires you to make a PERFECT shot every time..even though that is absolutely impossible, when for the same money you can shot a real big game rifle. Using these little guns is not funny, it's not cute, it doesn't make you more of a man, it doesn't impress anybody, it only shows your lack of understanding and immaturity. 
It's not a matter of trying to be ethical...it's a matter of using good common sense and making as many of your shots "GOOD CLEAN HUMANE KILLS" as you can. Stop with the bull crap and stop playing games with the death of an animal...USE ENOUGH GUN!


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

10yearquest said:


> thanks everyone. We knew full well we would get some flack but you cant really argue a dead elk.


 Yea, and I'm sure you would of come on here and told us all about how your bro wounded an elk with his 22-250 too. You and Tree are right, it's a dead elk...this time.

My question is Why? Is it more sporting to shoot elk with a varmint gun? Is it the cool thing to do these days? Is it the only gun your bro owns? Is it the only gun he is comfortable with? Just curious, because maybe next time I draw a Swan tag I'll break out the 410.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

BPturkeys said:


> OK, lets see,
> 1) Well placed 22-250 & well placed .338...tie
> 2) Well placed 22-250 & pool placed .338...22-250... win
> 3) Poor placed 22-250 & well placed .338...338... win
> ...


Wow, take a chill pill. What if he can't afford more then 1 gun? Can't we just enjoy a good post of some success?? Geez, next we will be fussing for even killing animals period!!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

OK, how about this..."first off 10year, I want to congratulate you on a successful hunt. You did most things right...you got out of your truck and hunted, you picked out an animal to harvest and you made a good clean kill. But I want to take you to the side and give you a little talk. A talk from an old timer that has years of experience, an old hunter that has seen much, an mentor, a veteran, an elder statesman, a father figure if you like...10year...you got kind of lucky on this one...but you got to stop using a gun that was designed to take small game and varmints when you hunt big game. I am not trying to embarrass you, or ridicule you, I am just trying to pass on some good sound advise from someone that has seen it all before and wants to help young people become better hunters and better all around outdoorsman. I want to encourage you to keep hunting and to pass on the traditions of hunting to the next generation. Keep up the good work and may all your hunts be successful and full of joy." 
Thanks, BP Turkeys


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2010)

hey the elk is dead. the gun he used was legal. relax!! :roll: some of you guys amaze me on how "perfect and ehtical" you are. i cant wait until next fall when i post a picture on here of a doe pronghorn i shot with my .30-378 wetherby and get to hear how i used way too much gun for an animal like that. o-||


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> hey the elk is dead. the gun he used was legal. relax!! :roll: some of you guys amaze me on how "perfect and ehtical" you are. i cant wait until next fall when i post a picture on here of a doe pronghorn i shot with my .30-378 wetherby and get to hear how i used way too much gun for an animal like that. o-||


+1 :lol:


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

BP has a point though, yes the elk is dead "this time" but there are a lot of questions and concerns. I am by no means perfect but I'm just curious what would have happened if the shot wasn't quite so good. I believe what BP is trying to say is a larger caliber allows more room for error. To me the person who is acting as though they are perfect is the person who thinks he is such a wonderful shot 100% of the time in any conditions that he can use an underpowered weapon to take large game animals. It worked and I congratulate you (this time) but if ya need to borrow a larger caliber gun next year let me know Ive got a couple of loaners.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2010)

he shot a calf!! its not like he found the biggest beefcake on the hill and started throwing lead! i dont know how many of you guys have actually shot a calf elk, but they arent much bigger then a mature muledeer buck. a .22-250 is plenty of gun for an animal that size. lots of people hunt big game with that caliber. i shot a big deer with one a few years ago and it killed him dead. quit giving the guy crap about his choice of weapon.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

> Rifles and shotguns
> Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-9
> You may use a rifle or shotgun to take big
> game, but your firearm and ammunition must
> ...


Is there really anything else to argue about? Seriously guys...I find myself spending less and less time on this forum because of the the cry babies. Every time I log on, it all more of the same.... :roll: :roll:

We should change the name of this forum from "Utah Wildlife Network" to "Utah's Network of Whiners." Warning to all new members...only post if you want the "ethics police" on your butt.

Kudos to those of you who congratulated the shooter. It was a one shot, one kill expiration of an elk. I've seen guys make less ethical shots with a 300 Ultra Mag. Congrats to the shooter on a well placed shot. It was legal, and it was an ethical kill. I'd certainly like for anybody on here to challenge that a one shot kill was unethical. I'd love to hear an explanation.

Quite complaining guys.... :roll: -O\__-


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

As long as everyone is polite what's wrong with expressing opinions and exchanging ideas?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

A fine hunt 10yearquest...I think you did great !!

Didn't you post last year or the year before about the same area....getting stuck, spending the night in a snow storm or something weird like that ? :?


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

Fine Work!


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

first let me say I was not the shooter here. My brother was. AND :roll: me and my brothers will keep shooting big game with our little guns for as long as we still have the choice to do so. Its legal, we keep our shots close, we use our guns for rabbit hunting to keep us sharp and we use great bullets. We do it because we choose too. We also do so very carefully. Its kind of a little more challenge. We have passed up 300 plus yard shots and waited for calm animals. I have tested the penetration on wet newspaper and found it to be enough. And the evidence and my own experiences verify it. 5 animals, all died within 40 yards of where they were hit, 4 died where they stood, 3 were one shot kills, none of them needed a second shot but 2 got one anyway. say what you will but that is not luck!

.45 last year me and another brother had that tag and we worked our tails off to shoot our elk. Not quite that wierd but we spent some late nights in there in snowshoes


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

10yearquest said:


> first let me say I was not the shooter here. My brother was. AND :roll: me and my brothers will keep shooting big game with our little guns for as long as we still have the choice to do so. Its legal, we keep our shots close, we use our guns for rabbit hunting to keep us sharp and we use great bullets. We do it because we choose too. We also do so very carefully. Its kind of a little more challenge. We have passed up 300 plus yard shots and waited for calm animals. I have tested the penetration on wet newspaper and found it to be enough. And the evidence and my own experiences verify it. 5 animals, all died within 40 yards of where they were hit, 4 died where they stood, 3 were one shot kills, none of them needed a second shot but 2 got one anyway. say what you will but that is not luck!


Excellent post 10yearquest.....

I never have been a big fan or believer of large caliber's for big game. My little bro thinks the .338 is not large enough...I've always believed more in good shot placement, irregardless of the caliber. Obviously you know the limitations and power of the caliber you use....good job !! 8)

btw....I like the 25-06 for deer and elk..


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## ripndrag (Mar 16, 2009)

WHAT IS WORSE a guy shooting an elk under 200 yards with a 22-250 and premium bullets? or some yahoo lobbing bullets out of a 338win mag at a 1000 yards at an elk? if I was the elk Id rather have the guy with the 22-250 shoot me why you ask because hes most likely a varmint hunter and can hit a dime at 200 yards consistantly my 22-250 will shoot 5 shots inside a .250 hole at 100 yards with a nossler 60 grain partion bullet it will shoot through an elk, inside of 200 yards of course.


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## EmptyNet (Mar 17, 2008)

ripndrag if I was the elk I would rather have the guy lobbing shots at 1000 yrds at me :lol: better chance of getting away.


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## ripndrag (Mar 16, 2009)

EmptyNet said:


> ripndrag if I was the elk I would rather have the guy lobbing shots at 1000 yrds at me :lol: better chance of getting away.


thats tru I guess you got a point but you might have a minor flesh wound


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Maybe you're a small wisp of a guy, I don't know, but if you can't handle a bigger gun than a 22-250 then by all means that's what you should shoot. You'll have to pick your shots knowing that your gun would be at the bottom of the bare minumun catagory. If you can handle a bigger gun then you you should use that. Then again, and I believe this is your point, you can shoot what ever the hell you want. Now then, when can I come pick up some steaks?


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## Beast (Apr 4, 2010)

I guess all you Stick Flippers better throw away your Bow and go buy a 50 Cal.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Ok I've got a few comments. They are general statements and NOT related to the circumstances in this thread.

First off shot placement is important with any cartridge. If you can't accruately shoot an adequate cartridge for the game you are chasing....don't chase that game till you can. Pretty simple. That's a terrible justification to say "I would rather accruately shoot something that is too light then have terrible accruacy with something adequate." Both scenarios are no good. 

Second don't bring archery into this discussion....arrows and broadheads kill in a completely different manner than a bullet does and archers have the same discussions around broadhead types, sizes, total arrow weight, and kinetic energry.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

bullsnot said:


> Ok I've got a few comments. They are general statements and NOT related to the circumstances in this thread.
> 
> First off shot placement is important with any cartridge. If you can't accruately shoot an adequate cartridge for the game you are chasing....don't chase that game till you can. Pretty simple. That's a terrible justification to say "I would rather accruately shoot something that is too light then have terrible accruacy with something adequate." Both scenarios are no good. Bulls...no bringin common sense into this argument..OK
> 
> Second don't bring archery into this discussion....arrows and broadheads kill in a completely different manner than a bullet does and archers have the same discussions around broadhead types, sizes, total arrow weight, and kinetic energry


..... Well actually Bulls, I do have a comment on archery hunters..."you got to hand it to them, they seem to be striving constantly to improve their equipment and make it more lethal. They are developing AND USING the very best that they can find. Thumbs up to the archery crowd.


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## Beast (Apr 4, 2010)

I was just being a smart ***. Sorry! This guy done a mighty fine job of stocking and killing his elk.


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## sharpshooter (Nov 17, 2010)

10yearquest, Just curious, what kind of bullet was you using?


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I think in all boils down to the hunter. If you are ethical it doesn't matter what you use, it just limits yours shots. If you are not ethical it doesn't matter what you use, you will always stretch the limits of your equiptment. I shoot #6 steel shot at ducks but don't shoot past 35 yards, I shoot my bow at only 40 lbs draw but will only shoot at 35 yards. I had a shot at a deer this year with a .240 Mag. at 370 yards and passed because I have not shot that far with that gun. So the bottom line is I know MY limitations and I stay well withen them. I used to hog hunt with T shot in my shotgun, most would say that is way under powered, I never lost 1 hog while shooting them with it. Just have to know your range!!


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Longbow. I am a small guy and so are my brothers. We own bigger guns too. We just choose to add a little more challenge to it. It really is not as impossible as it may sound or seem. These are not hard shots, not at all the perfection that has been mentioned. The vitals ( heart,lungs,liver) of an elk or deer are how big? Can you guys hit a pie plate at 200 yards from a good rest? As was stated arrows kill differently than bullets right. Why so? Because bullets do not make caliber sized holes and arrows do. Bullets make big holes compared to arrows IF they are going fast. Along time ago bullets got fast enough to make bigger holes than thier diameter. I have to wonder if some people are just mad because the big, heavy, hard kicken, macho man gun got matched by a little, easy carrying, easy shooting little girly gun :roll: 

Sharpshooter these were factory loads made by winchester with 64 grain power piont bullets. I usually use reloads with partitions or old school nosler solid base bullets.

I am done. We ate elk steaks tonight while butchering!!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

10yearquest,

I will be the first to admit that your claims of using a .224 bullet on big game made me squeemish to say the least. However, you are the first that I have noticed (not to say that others on the forum havent validated the concept with picures) to actually validate your claim of such a small bullet being effective. Your brother definitely demonstrated restraint and knew when and where to shoot. Hats off to you and your brother, and you have definitely made me question my skepticism. 8)


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## huntinco (Sep 23, 2007)

10yr, Congrats on a fine piece of meat. Now a 22-250 is just fine to kill an elk @ 0-300 with a well placed shot. Now for those of you wanting some proof go shoot a 1/4" piece steal with you trusty 06 or 270 then shoot it with your 250 and ya just might suprise yourself!!!l. 3500 fps and above using any bullet will produce hydrostatic shock that will blow you mind!


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

10yearquest said:


> We ate elk steaks tonight while butchering!!


Lucky! Man I love elk steaks.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Nice hunt and fine shooting. I grew up in a family that hunted with 22-250s. Hitting an animal with a 22-250 is like dropping a bomb in the chest cavity. As HuntinCo said, the shock jellies the organs in a way most wouldn't believe unless they see it personally.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

I watched a guy shoot an elk at 100 yards with a 338 win mag 6 times!!!! He lost the cow after an entire day of trying to find it. If this guy shot an elk with a 250 and killed it, my hats off to him. He obviously knows his weapon and practices.


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