# "Sport" Shooters Suck... What's wrong with us?



## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Ahhh, If you clicked this link you are already primed to be outraged. So let me give you a little push. 

Sport Shooters suck and sport shooting should be banned (or at least restricted to designated areas) on public land. 

Ok- first, let me acknowledge, that such a ban would hurt for me personally. That's where I shoot my rifles and I'm the first to say, shooting is fun! 

BUT... two weekends ago I hunted chukar near a popular shooting area. I drove by the same area yesterday and there was several hundred shotshells, a small mountain of rifle and handgun brass and my personal favorites, a TV AND refrigerator where I had parked. 

This has got to end. 

Who the Frack shoots refrigerators? There is nothing but an ocean of rocks, but for some reason you feel the need to shoot refrigerators. 

Where I did actually park, someone had clearly robbed one of those glass recycling bins. Seriously... who shoots a mountain of glass into shards and then makes no attempt to pick it up. Thanks for stabbing my dog you azzhat. 

But wait... I'm not to the part that made me mad yet. 

I move down the road a mile or so to a canyon I wanted to hunt. Up I climb, shoot some birds, and am generally having a lovely time when "zing, zing, zing, followed by boom, boom, boom". I was in the Army, I know incoming when I hear it. Some jerkwads have decided to pick the widest flattest, least back-stopping terrain around to shoot stuff in. AND for SOME REASON they are shooting at something elevated and (ricocheting?) rounds 1,500 feet higher and a mile or more into the mountains on top of me! WTF? Just because you don't see a wheeler trail, no one could possibly be up there? Screw you! 

I'm in a friggin' blaze orange hat, but I am after all a mile away. I wait for quiet and pop a few rounds into the air, but as soon as they can reload they are right back at it. Thanks. Now I'm pinned down behind a rock listening to the rounds impact around me. It's not like they are hitting my "position" but do I really want to risk being out in the open? I'm by myself. If I get hit, I'm frickin' dead. If my dog gets hit, my wife will kill me, and again, I'm dead. 

Since when is it OK to presume no one is in the mountains, because there isn't a truck parked right, friggin' here? Do I need to scatter signs along the range that say "Chukar hunt in progress, please do not shoot randomly into the mountains"? 

Some chukar hunter is going to get killed one of these days. Screw all of you who leave targets, brass, shotshells, appliances, propane, glass, computer monitors, and all the other shooting shet in the desert. The next time a BLM range plan comes up for public comment, I'm making a motion to restrict shooting. It appears that WE can't handle it.


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

Friggin A!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I too am amazed at all of the junk out there that people shoot up......If we lose rights as shooters/hunters and places to do it, it will not be from the left or "liberals" taking them, but rather from these slobs who give us a bad name.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I honestly think people think that it is just a dumping ground out there. I like to shoot for sport when hunting season is over, but I always take an extra large garbage sack out there and pick up my targets and empties as well as fill the rest of the bag with other people's crap. And it still doesn't make a dent. It gets pretty out of hand, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see these locations get shut down. If littering in the city can warrant a $350 fine. Trashing some of the wild places in Utah should warrant a much larger fine. I realize it's not very enforceable, but man is it annoying.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I bought several "gongs" made out of AR500 steel, we set up at various ranges and shoot those. Way more fun than most other types of targets. If you want to see things explode, cut the end off a popcan and freeze water in it. Slide out the ice and refill / refreeze, repeat. Set those up and shoot them, they explode nicely with no mess. You can even freeze a string in it to make hanging targets.


-DallanC


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

So why jump on the band wagon and shut it down for everyone. I go out the to do load development. Can't do it at the range with Rambo next to you seeing how fast he can shoot. Not many years ago I used to always see BLM cops and county cops out here patrolling. Why not have them do their jobs and start writing tickets. There is no reason to shut things down to everyone. Next thing you know they will just shut down all the access. After all that will make it easier to enforce. Do you really think that a law making it illegal to shoot out there will stop it? Isn't it already illegal to litter. That law isn't stopping them either because nobody is out there enforcing it.


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

i think a lot of this comes down to education too. yesterday i was duck hunting in cache valley. i walked probably a mile from the truck to where i was hunting. at sunset i start packing up my stuff up, which takes about 15 minutes, so now its almost dark. i start walking out and meet two people coming down the trail at me. they were two teenagers/early 20's, wearing flat billed hats, poofy parka jackets, skinny jeans and converse shoes. its freezing cold and windy out. and they were each carrying ar15's with no rear sight or scope, and 30 rd mags. i have no idea what their intention was and i never heard any shots, but whatever they were planning, it couldn't be good for the view of outdoorsman. This is why we owe it to the next generation to educate them on safe practices and etiquette, so that they don't shoot themselves in the foot, figuratively and literally.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Off with their heads!!!

Shooting refrigerators is stupid. I go for ovens and road signs.


If you don't like the litter, do something about it. Pick it up.

.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

reb8600 said:


> So why jump on the band wagon and shut it down for everyone. I go out the to do load development. Can't do it at the range with Rambo next to you seeing how fast he can shoot. Not many years ago I used to always see BLM cops and county cops out here patrolling. Why not have them do their jobs and start writing tickets. There is no reason to shut things down to everyone. Next thing you know they will just shut down all the access. After all that will make it easier to enforce. Do you really think that a law making it illegal to shoot out there will stop it? Isn't it already illegal to litter. That law isn't stopping them either because nobody is out there enforcing it.


I'm with you except there just aren't the BLM resources to police something like this. Everybody is always "going to pick everything up" when LEO stops by and once they are headed out "all that stuff was already here." I'm intentionally being a little alarmist, but we HAVE to stick together on this one or we WILL lose the privilege. I really don't know what the answer is. Am I really going to intervene when I see a bunch of kids shooting up a TV? Call the police?


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

Trooper why would you want to ban something you admit to doing also. I think littering is the issue, not shooting on PUBLIC land. People leave garbage and litter at shooting ranges too. Sorry to hear you got caught in some cross fire.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Off with their heads!!!
> 
> Shooting refrigerators is stupid. I go for ovens and road signs.
> 
> ...


You know I thought a lot about this comment yesterday (I knew it would come) and here's the thing. I do pick up my trash, and whatever trash is lying around where I shoot. I even pick up trash near the truck when I park. But... it makes an insignificant difference. Honestly, I don't pick up all the trash in the desert for the same reason I don't donate all of my income to charity. I don't want to. I'd rather be hunting. Is that morally defensible? Perhaps not.

I am occasionally talked into an organized clean-up day of this river or that trail, but my God, sport shooters are just so _intentional _about their litter. A park gets dirty because lazy people miss the garbage can, forget stuff, don't want to deal with their dog shet. People don't go to a park and unload a mattress, tear the stuffing out of it and walk away.

Don't tell me its a lack of education. It's just not. It's a lack of "give a frack."


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

This is why it is SOOOOO important to teach the new shooting generation proper etiquette for target shooting.

We need to not only teach proper safety, but we also need to teach proper stewardship of the land we use. 

On the deer hunt, I found a 12 pack of empty beer cans in a place where someone really would have had to made a lot of effort to pack them in. Yet they couldnt take a little more effort to pack it back out.

If we want to maintain our 2nd Ammendment rights, we better show that we deserve to keep them!


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I am ok with people leaving their brass.... :mrgreen:


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

OKEE said:


> Trooper why would you want to ban something you admit to doing also. I think littering is the issue, not shooting on PUBLIC land. People leave garbage and litter at shooting ranges too. Sorry to hear you got caught in some cross fire.


Because I would rather lose the fun, freedom and convenience of shooting on public land then sit by and watch the entire landscape be destroyed. Do I want public land shooting banned? No. Has it come to that? Yes.

People do leave litter at private shooting ranges, and I bet the people who have to clean it up get irritated, and if they catch those people, they give them heck. Who does this on public land? The one BLM ranger responsible for "Central Utah?"

Besides, do people really come to a private shooting range and say, "Excuse me range master, is it cool if I leave this shot-up mercury, lead, beryllium, cadmium leaking TV here?"


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> I am ok with people leaving their brass.... :mrgreen:


Touché.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Trooper said:


> Screw all of you who leave targets, brass, shotshells, appliances, propane, glass, computer monitors, and all the other shooting shet in the desert.


I agree 100%.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

One thing that I find hilarious are those guys to get dressed in full ops gear and head up the canyon with their AR-15's and shoot at targets from 15 yards while doing their tactical maneuvers to dodge pretend bullets. Those guys leave so much .223 brass on the ground that it makes me seriously consider buying a .223 in bolt action. Personally I think that those guys would be better served buying paintball guns, but they seem like the types that would cry when they get hit. 

Every once in a while you get those guys who stay at home and play video games that get out to the gun show and buy real guns. I am pretty entertained watching them shoot up the mountain at point blank range with their terminator sunglasses.


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

what blows my mind is the guys you see shooting AR's with no rear sight. i literally saw a group once shooting a flat top AR with their removable carrying handle sight attached to the right sight of their quad rail. I really wanted to pull a bill engval and say "here's your sign"


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Nambaster said:


> One thing that I find hilarious are those guys to get dressed in full ops gear and head up the canyon with their AR-15's and shoot at targets from 15 yards while doing their tactical maneuvers to dodge pretend bullets. Those guys leave so much .223 brass on the ground that it makes me seriously consider buying a .223 in bolt action. Personally I think that those guys would be better served buying paintball guns, but they seem like the types that would cry when they get hit.
> 
> Every once in a while you get those guys who stay at home and play video games that get out to the gun show and buy real guns. I am pretty entertained watching them shoot up the mountain at point blank range with their terminator sunglasses.


There was a guy doing this last time I took my family to the range. My wife and teenage daughters were laughing so hard at him that I thought I was going to get into a fight. Finally he gave up and left mad. Thankfully he left us a couple bad guy silhouette targets that had far too few holes in them for the amount of shots he had taken at scant ranges. Sure hope he wasn't a cop.-------SS


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I also love in the movies how those guys are hip shooting in the action films.. They would probably get a bit more accuracy if they shouldered their guns and actually used the sights.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Trooper said:


> I'm with you except there just aren't the BLM resources to police something like this. Everybody is always "going to pick everything up" when LEO stops by and once they are headed out "all that stuff was already here." I'm intentionally being a little alarmist, but we HAVE to stick together on this one or we WILL lose the privilege. I really don't know what the answer is. Am I really going to intervene when I see a bunch of kids shooting up a TV? Call the police?


There wouldnt be enough to police a stop to the target shooting either. Passing more laws is not the answer when current laws are not enforced. You are right, we need to stick together but not when it comes to shutting down the rights of those of us that do follow the law and do the correct thing.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Guys. I have a couple of dump trailers. If somebody were interested in forming a small group of people to hit a couple of these spots I would be willing to help out with it. Garbage in the hills and trash in general is hard for me to stomach. A trip to the dump always puts me in a bad mood but it is far better than at places that we love to use. We could do some shooting while we are at it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Guys. I have a couple of dump trailers. If somebody were interested in forming a small group of people to hit a couple of these spots I would be willing to help out with it. Garbage in the hills and trash in general is hard for me to stomach. A trip to the dump always puts me in a bad mood but it is far better than at places that we love to use. We could do some shooting while we are at it.


That is a good idea but you would want to coordinate it with whoever is in charge of the land that you plan on cleaning up. Weather it is BLM, Forest Service, or good old State lands.

I got stopped one time coming out of my shooting area with a old couch in the back of my truck on BLM land and they started to accuse me of going into that area to dump it.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

OKEE said:


> Trooper why would you want to ban something you admit to doing also. I think littering is the issue, not shooting on PUBLIC land. People leave garbage and litter at shooting ranges too.


It is really a question of ideals, do you believe in freedom or not? Clearly, many misuse it and many have failed in this scenario. However, Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for the _triumph_ of _evil_ is that good men do nothing. Shutting things down doesn't work worth crap, just ask your local drug dealer how demand and prices have changed since being banned. We need to be more responsible and teach others the same and teach against apathy, not just banishment of freedom like the gun grabbers, let's use real sense and be proactive on this rather than take the liberal approach. I can certainly appreciate the sentiment as this was clearly a very messed up experience, but we can do better. I am with Muleskinner on this one.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

We did this with the UWC a few years back. I really enjoyed it. 

Not only because we cleaned up some mess, but because we got to meet some great guys. 

B- if you would like to help organize, I'd be happy to help. The BLM will even haul out dumpsters to use if we can coordinate a good enough effort.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Bax* said:


> We did this with the UWC a few years back. I really enjoyed it.
> 
> Not only because we cleaned up some mess, but because we got to meet some great guys.
> 
> B- if you would like to help organize, I'd be happy to help. The BLM will even haul out dumpsters to use if we can coordinate a good enough effort.


I would be happy to help organize but I have no idea where any of these areas are. If somebody wants to give me specifics on a location or two I would be glad to contact the BLM or whoever it may be.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Bax* said:


> We did this with the UWC a few years back. I really enjoyed it.
> 
> Not only because we cleaned up some mess, but because we got to meet some great guys.
> 
> B- if you would like to help organize, I'd be happy to help. The BLM will even haul out dumpsters to use if we can coordinate a good enough effort.


 What the hell is wrong with you Bax*? I wouldn't ask the BLM for the time of day. All those area's 'we' helped clean up are now closed to the general public. We missed the part in all of those grand speeches from the BLM that they were going to shut it all down for 'future generations' to enjoy. I think it's best we (meaning all of us) pack out what we can and call the county Sheriff if it gets too out of hand.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

.45 said:


> What the hell is wrong with you Bax*? I wouldn't ask the BLM for the time of day. All those area's 'we' helped clean up are now closed to the general public. We missed the part in all of those grand speeches from the BLM that they were going to shut it all down for 'future generations' to enjoy. I think it's best we (meaning all of us) pack out what we can and call the county Sheriff if it gets too out of hand.


So count you out?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> So count you out?


 No....not at all. I'm just saying if the BLM is involved we all suffer. Get your dumpsters out there Muleskinner and I'll be first in line.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I would be happy to help organize but I have no idea where any of these areas are. If somebody wants to give me specifics on a location or two I would be glad to contact the BLM or whoever it may be.


West side of the Stansbury mountains are a wreck. South end of Stansbury island is a mess too.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

.45 said:


> What the hell is wrong with you Bax*? I wouldn't ask the BLM for the time of day. All those area's 'we' helped clean up are now closed to the general public. We missed the part in all of those grand speeches from the BLM that they were going to shut it all down for 'future generations' to enjoy. I think it's best we (meaning all of us) pack out what we can and call the county Sheriff if it gets too out of hand.


What area are you talking about?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

_"Poachers suck, we should ban hunting."_

Same argument right?

-DallanC


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Trooper said:


> What area are you talking about?


 West of Utah Lake across from the Knolls area (Including the Knoll's area) and all the way to Soldier Pass Road.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

That area was shut down due to careless shooters were a few stray bullets found their way to the homes in the area.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Critter said:


> That area was shut down due to careless shooters were a few stray bullets found their way to the homes in the area.


 That may be.....along with the fires, protecting ancient sites, poaching and litter. But it just seems weird that it was posted right after the BLM solicited help for a major cleanup.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Yep, they get it cleaned up for free and then close it down. That's about par for them. 

I know that the area that I shoot at here in Colorado gets worse each year. I do however pick up a couple of 5 gallon buckets full of brass each year to help out, and the used brass market is up. I even haul off the old targets that are there, but I will leave the ones that are up on the hill side if I don't feel like hiking up to them. 

Lately I have been picking up 7.62x39 ammo that has been left on the ground. I don't know if they are leaving them there by accident or after clearing a jam and not picking it up. After this last summer I have around 200 rounds of it. Now I just need to get me a SKS.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

DallanC said:


> _"Poachers suck, we should ban hunting."_
> 
> Same argument right?
> 
> -DallanC


I guess, if 50% of the "hunters" were actually "poachers". I actually have no idea what percentage of sport shooters are slobs, but I do know it is too darn high.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Trooper said:


> I guess, if 50% of the "hunters" were actually "poachers". I actually have no idea what percentage of sport shooters are slobs, but I do know it is too darn high.


I don't think its that high of a percentage, its just that those that do it leave very visible and obvious remains behind.

-DallanC


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Trooper said:


> What area are you talking about?


 What area are you talking about Trooper? ;-)


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

.45 said:


> What area are you talking about Trooper? ;-)


West Side of the Stansbury's got me started on this, but Stansbury Island, the north part of the Cedars, the little Oquir canyons near Tooele and lots of small quarries and such in the Uinta's all suffer from this. And don't even get me started on the public duck hunting areas, although that's a little more manageable because it's mostly just hulls and lots of people pick them up as the year goes on and the morons go to wherever morons go in December.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

As far as unsafe shooting and leaving casings/trash goes: get the number of the sheriff's office for the county that you're going to be in and call them when you see people actually doing it. We're all going to get banned from these areas if these idiots are allowed to do this crap.

As for people who want to shoot their garbage, why don't you get some cardboard? It's free and biodegradable, though you should pick it up anyway like the rest of us do. My favorite thing to shoot in the winter is ice globes made from big balloons full of water frozen in the snow overnight.

Edit: By the way when I called DNR to ask about the closure areas they told me that you can hunt in them, you just can't target shoot. You should call them to clarify on specific areas of course. Might be a good way for Elmer Fudd to avoid the crazies, if you know what I mean. Also, anything other than lead could start a fire. I shot some nickel-plated buckshot up there and had to stamp out a little flare up.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I was out at Lone Rock last week with my scout troop for an overnighter and it was a friggin mess out there.


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## Perry01 (Jul 12, 2014)

I don't see the thrill in shooting "stuff" maybe it's because I'm over 40.

What's wrong with shooting paper targets?

If people are going to shoot items, they should at least take it it away and properly dispose of it afterwards.


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## Azar (Oct 21, 2014)

There's nothing wrong with paper targets, but there is definitely more fun to be had with a "reactive" target. That being said, you can have a reactive target without trashing the land you're shooting on.

One thing my brother and I found in our younger years was that the little hollowpoint .22LR's shot into old potatoes past their prime make them explode. Heck, back then in the summer you could get a 5lb bag of potatoes for $0.99. You didn't have to wait until they had started to go bad before placing them on a hillside and making your own little shooting gallery. No need to worry about clean up. They came from the ground to start with and they'll biodegrade rather quickly...

Clay pigeons are biodegradable too and make a nice bright target at longer range.

Pack in (and out) a swinging steel plate if you like ringing steel.

But an old TV, fridge, or washer/dryer? Take that to the dump and leave the trash out of the hills... :?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Pick any of these (or several).

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xar500+%2Bgong&_nkw=ar500+%2Bgong&_sacat=0

Build a stand with $10 of rebar from home depot. I like the 8" gongs for rifle at various distances, 4" for sub-100 yards w/ rimfire.

-DallanC


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Azar said:


> Clay pigeons are biodegradable too and make a nice bright target at longer range.


Unless I am mistaken, not all of them are.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

My Scouts picked up a bunch a couple weekends ago and someone threw one in the fire on a board. After a few minutes it began to melt, produce a greenish smoke, and then burn.

Not sure what the heck those things are made of, but that made me question how eco-friendly they really are?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

the ones that are not biodegradable are made of pitch and clay. They will basically last forever.


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## Azar (Oct 21, 2014)

That's good to know. The ones I have purchased claim to be biodegradable. I'll have to make sure I only use ones for target shooting that are.

Thanks.


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## ake24 (Nov 23, 2013)

While I don't recycle or do much to reduce my carbon footprint either I've always bought the biodegradable clays because it makes me feels better about shooting them and leaving them. I have done a lot of head shaking and muttering some less-than-complementary phrases over casings and shells laying around. My buddies and I shoot clays and paper up spanish fork Canyon and always haul out what we've shot plus an additional clay pigeon box of everyone else's cases and hulls. It's disheartening and I'm pretty sure that some day soon it's going to ruin that spot (just below the landslide) for everyone. We've considered putting up more signage ourselves but figured they'd just get shot up like any other sign. Any suggestions of what any of us could do to prevent instead of trying to pick up?


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Here's the nice letter I got from the BLM:

Hi Jess,

Thank you for your email and I apologize in the delay in responding to you. I am cc'ing our supervisory law enforcement agent (Camm Stephenson) and my two Assistant Field Managers (Bruce and Mike) so that they are aware of the issue on Stansbury Mountains. As we are notified of potentially dangerous situations, we attempt to work with and educate recreational users of safe shooting practices. This may be through increased patrols of the area, targeting recreational shooting groups for educational outreach programs, or publishing information on our website (http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/target_shooting.html). In addition, our recreational staff and law enforcement agents work with volunteer groups to help clean up target trash as soon as we can so that we are not creating a situation that causes long term issues.

I was wondering if you could help me by further defining the area were you are noticing problems? I'm providing a link to our web page that has a map of the Stansbury Mountains.

http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/recreation/target_shooting0.Par.35725.File.dat/2012TargShootingClosures.pdf

If you need a better resolution map, please let me know and I'll work on getting you one when I return to the office. 

Thank you for your comment and I appreciate your concern and willingness to help us manage public lands.

Sincerely,
Bekee


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

Um, here's an idea.... require basic safety certification. We implemented hunters safety as a way to teach basic safety and responsibility to hunters. But the average 21 year old who wants to sport shoot can go into the store, buy a gun, not have any training on it, and go fling lead on public land despite the multiple uses that area regularly sees. 

Littering is common sense, and let's be honest, the ones who do don't give a crap. they know better, they just don't care. Enforcement, and peer pressure are probably the only ways to curb that. If you're with someone who wants to leave the trash out there, you need to step up, call them out on it, and refuse to leave until the place is better than you found it. 

As far as safe shooting, and the need for a good, safe backstop on public land...common sense isn't enough. I know that many of you don't want any regulation on your ability to use a firearm, but I would suggest that required a basic safety certification as part of the process of purchasing a firearm would go a long way. There are sooo many people I know who shoot recreationally that have no hunting experience, and on every outing I've been on that we've gone shooting, there's been opportunities for education in the realm of safety. That suggests to me that there's not a lot of education being passed on in the recreational category, at least among the occasional, less serious users that just have a desire to shoot stuff.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

WasatchOutdoors said:


> Um, here's an idea.... require basic safety certification. We implemented hunters safety as a way to teach basic safety and responsibility to hunters.


FYI, we just threw hunters safety out the window. A person doesn't need it to hunt now, buy a gun grab some ammo and go with a friend who has one.

-DallanC


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

DallanC said:


> FYI, we just threw hunters safety out the window. A person doesn't need it to hunt now, buy a gun grab some ammo and go with a friend who has one.
> 
> -DallanC


 True, but they are at the very least required to be accompanied by someone who has, and it's only a temporary fix. They're still required to take the class within 3 years.

Right now, to recreationally shoot, you can put two people together that don't know how to load the gun, purchase correct ammo, much less follow firearm safety common sense. And they can learn, grow, and develop bad habits together forever.... Hopefully they will youtube gun safety tips and learn to be as good as this prime example.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

WasatchOutdoors said:


> True, but they are at the very least required to be accompanied by someone who has, and it's only a temporary fix. They're still required to take the class within 3 years.
> 
> Right now, to recreationally shoot, you can put two people together that don't know how to load the gun, purchase correct ammo, much less follow firearm safety common sense. And they can learn, grow, and develop bad habits together forever.... Hopefully they will youtube gun safety tips and learn to be as good as this prime example.


I fully agree... the only thing I dislike is the thought someone has to take a class to exercise their 2nd amendment right. Responsible people should get the training needed to safely handle a firearm... I've always thought the Government (via say the National Guard) should offer free civilian firearms safety training or some-such.

-DallanC


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Kind of a tangent but... I got a phone call from a guy in Park City that wanted to know if I knew anyone that wanted to buy bowling pins to shoot at. He said he has about 750 of them to sell. Price $1.00 to $2.50 each. I didn't ask if I could put his info on the interweb so PM me if you want his phone #.
Bowling pins hold up well for handgun shooting but rifles blow them apart.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

My opinion is that training courses dont help. Look at the ATV courses that ALL kids are required to take yet I see them and the parents all the time riding off the trails. The term "Tread Lightly" means nothing to them. Should change it to "Stay On The Fing Trails" Maybe something a little harsher about picking up their trash would help also.


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