# Tree Stand Thief



## jerkyman

Wow...just need to vent a little bit. Just went back to the treestand I put up in July on public land and it was gone. Yes it was locked to the tree with cable and a pad lock. Without going in to a great bit of detail this is BLM land that is open to anyone to hunt. The moron who took it tried 3 times to shoot off the lock and finally succeeded. That alone is a pretty stupid thing to do. Not only that but now you need to haul a 15 pound tree stand nearly 2 miles out to your truck. The **** thing only cost $90 so why would you not just buy your own. Now even crazier is that this is the second time I have had a stand stolen from this spot. So I am asking myself why? Last year no one put a stand back up in the same spot so really do not understand the motive. Thought it might be a tree hugger that was doing this but not many tree huggers carry a firearm to shoot a lock off.Who ever you are your a real clown and give hunters a bad name pulling this kind of crap.
By chance if you happen to read this and recognize the cable and lock that is attached hanging on the tree as your handy work, then lets get together and discuss this. Really would like to meet you. :evil:


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3

Oh man get really for the banter. I don't have problem with putting up a stand early but I know a lot of the guys on here will have a hay day. What area was this hung in?


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## dkhntrdstn

sorry to hear that. that sucks.


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## wyogoob

Hey, welcome to the forum jerkyman. 

Any jerky recipes?



o-||


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## Narient

Wow... That would really set me off too, Welcome to the forum and sorry your first post is under these circumstances.


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## nickpan

I totally agree with you that its a crock that some people are the way they are. But, beings on public land anything can happen. I put cams and stands out occasionally and do so expecting that theft is a very good possibility. And if it was stolen there once before i know i wouldn't put a stand there again..

Were the foot pegs still in the tree? one other way to deter is to take them out so they can't get to it and take em in when you hunt it.


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## sagebrush

What area was this in? I know of two stands that are in trees now. Just wondering because i have some cameras out near where these stands are.


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## middlefork

Bummer. All part of the competion to preserve someone's honey hole on public land. I don't condone their practice at all but you take your chances leaving it there.

That said I don't like big old lag bolts pounded into trees either to secure said treestand.


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## jerkyman

Stand was up at Strawberry. Lag Bolts have been in the tree for about 5 years. Just a couple of them, one on the bottom and one up the tree somewhere. My screw in steps were taken. 
Being its public land I really do not have an issue with leaving the steps in the tree because if I am not using the stand then I have no issue if someone else did when I was not hunting that particular spot. Its public land and they have as much right as anyone to hunt it. Common courtesy would be to advise the hunter that they were in my stand if I arrived and they were in it. 
I get you take your chances but in most cases locking them to the tree does the trick. I usually put up my stands late July and take them out with me when the hunt is over.


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## Critter

Welcome to hunting public ground. When ever you leave a tree stand, or a trail camera you are running the risk of someone taking it. I highly doubt that you would leave your rifle or bow hanging in the tree and expect it to be there when you returned a week or two afterward would you? As to the legality of it after 72 hours I believe it is considered abandoned property and it is finders keepers. I may be wrong on the exact amount of time but it is close.


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## jerkyman

72 hours...sweet I guess I need to go find some new treestands.


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## Theekillerbee

Here's a story for ya. I have a friend that is a highway patrolman. A couple years ago, he had a trail cam out by a watering hole. He happened to be hunting in a man made ground blind when some DB's stroll into the watering hole making all kinds of racket. One of the chumps even tries taking his camera while he is watching! He had it secured, and admits he was chuckling watching them try to get it off the tree. They didn't get it off, and he never showed himself, but it sure would have been cool to see how surprised they would have been if he would have popped out of the blind! I honestly don't know if he could have given them a ticket, but I'm sure he coulda put the fear of God in them!


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## Mr Muleskinner

jerkyman said:


> 72 hours...sweet I guess I need to go find some new treestands.


The day use areas have a 24 hour limit on all personal property. That may be a good place to find treestands. People that do this kind of thing will often gather around a Volkswagen bus.

For the record though I could do without all screw in devices in trees. They make for great spots to get beetle infestations.


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## TEX-O-BOB

> For the record though I could do without all screw in devices in trees. They make for great spots to get beetle infestations.


Like that's gonna matter... :? I'm hearin ya Muleskinner, but have you seen the beetle damage up there?  It's horrible!

A bigger issue is the one the Forrest Circus will take if they ever find your stand in one of "their" trees with screw in steps. It's against that law to screw any foreign object into a tree on Forrest Circus (public) land. They will fine you $199 per step if they catch you doing it. I guess it's because of the hazards screw in steps create when you try to cut the tree with a chainsaw in the event of a fire or logging. :? Anyway, It might just be them taking your stuff. I've had stands taken by the Forrest Circus before but they were on ski resorts. Go figure... :? BTW, I've seen the inside of the garage they store all the confiscated stuff they find out in the woods and you would not believe the number of tree stands that are sitting in that warehouse! HUNDREDS OF EM!!! Unbelieveable! The Forrest Circus steals more tree stands than you know... :|


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## Mr Muleskinner

Agreed Tex it doesn't make much of a difference but it is a difference none the less and chances are those spikes are going into the few healthy trees that remain, not the ones that are already dead. I am one of the guys that have issues with people leaving stuff behind, including treestands. Would I steal one? No but I also wouldn't have a problem though reporting the location to the authorities after I have walked by it for a couple of years. I have seen all of the stuff left behind that I can stomach myself. Everybody has their own beliefs and level of tolerance. I just think that on the last pack out a person should leave no trace behind if at all possible.

The law is fairly clear with abandoned property. If a person is willing to break the law for whatever the reason they should be willing to pay for it.

I have always found it ironic that people that seam willing to pack out an elk are too lazy to pack out a 15 pound piece of metal that they paid $6-$8 a pound for.


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## izzydog

Lost 3 stands and 5 cameras around Strawberry last year from our group. Strawberry has become a zoo.


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## StillAboveGround

Mr Muleskinner said:


> ... No but I also wouldn't have a problem though reporting the location to the authorities after I have walked by it for a couple of years...


Since when does USFS do anything about reports?


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## Bax*

jerkyman said:


> Common courtesy would be to advise the hunter that they were in my stand if I arrived and they were in it.


Man that really sucks. Common courtesy really isnt common anymore. People are just professional jerks everywhere nowadays. I got back earlier in June from a trip to Southern UT where someone found a campsite and ransacked it and threw the camper's belongings all over the place... now that I think about it, I wonder if that was the autistic guy's stuff from Colorado?


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## Mr Muleskinner

StillAboveGround said:


> Mr Muleskinner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... No but I also wouldn't have a problem though reporting the location to the authorities after I have walked by it for a couple of years...
> 
> 
> 
> Since when does USFS do anything about reports?
Click to expand...

When it comes to people breaking the law and being able to issue citations and confiscate materials you would apparently be surprised.


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## stablebuck

You should take some DNA samples and see if it was a Sasquatch...
But in all seriousness, that's public land hunting...if I were you I would abandon that spot altogether or pack in a ground blind when you hunt...for me...if it's frequented that much by other people then I'll probably just let them have that area and find a darker, deeper spot for myself...


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## Yahtahay

Just another reason to get 4-5 miles from civilization....Nobody sane hunts 4-5 miles from any road...but me! :roll: In all seriousness, I've never had anybody screw with my cameras, stands, rocks, etc., but like mentioned, I hunt 4-5 miles in.

Sorry to hear about your loss jerkyman.


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## Huge29

I certainly don't condone anyone stealing anything, but I do take major issue with this. Beyond breaking the law by abandoning personal property and potential damage incurred at the time of logging, I take issue with you thinking that this public property is your private property by setting up your personal camp chair on the parade route a week early. It is really no different IMHO, this is not your private spot and putting your chair there doesn't change that. Realistically it is not a big deal, just a principle thing for me.

EDIT-I almost forgot; welcome to the forum!


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## shaun larsen

jerkyman said:


> 72 hours...sweet I guess I need to go find some new treestands.


i know of a few i'll gladly give you their locations on in order to get even... 

ive had cams stolen. ive had stands stolen. its part of the game i guess. i actually found one of my stolen stands later that year, hung in another tree several miles away over a popular water hole in that area. i know it was mine because i carve my initials in all my stands. i repo-ed my stand and got even with that guy who took it in the first place  sometimes you just gotta speed up the karma time line o-||

look at the positive side tho. atleast you figured it out now and not opening morning when you hike in there just to realize it was gone.


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## TopofUtahArcher

I can't for the life of me understand why people will leave steps leading up the tree to their $90 treestands... and then wonder why someone would take their $90 treestand - cause it was there and people aren't honest like they were when we were young. 
Please don't take this wrong, I can understand why you put it up in the tree, I can maybe even understand someone having a gripe with you putting holes in a tree on public land (which is an offense by BLM and FS standards) or you claiming "ownership" of that spot so early in the season... but why would you invite someone up the tree by leaving steps in the tree? 
If you guys are going to leave a stand on public land (or private in many cases), please invest in a lightweight treestand ladder so you can at least keep people from waltzing up your tree to get the stands...

Same goes for trail cameras... what do we expect others to do when they walk into a "remote" water source or game gathering spot and they happen upon our $100+ trailcameras? Put them in non-traditional places: at the foot of a tree pointed up at an angle, or up high in a tree pointing down at an angle, or a "trail" away from where others will obviously be looking for easy pickings.. I have been taken for some SD cards and a stand or two, but that was a long time ago since I bought 1 set of climbing stix. Good luck finding the bugger who did it.
LP @TOU


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## Mr Muleskinner

I agree with you Huge. Sorry guys..... I really think that many of you are deserving of it. Laying claim to a piece of land or just being too lazy to take your stuff down. It really doesn't matter to me what it is. No sympathy from me. I would bet money that if the same person pulled the treestand down and boxed it up nicely at the base of the tree before putting their own up, they would be told, by you, to find their own spot if you walked up and they were in "your" tree. Pull your stuff out and it won't happen. I find no reason to leave a tree stand in a tree after the hunt and surely find no reason to leave lag bolts in a tree for 5 years. Guess what? I think the people that find it necessary to carve their name in trees are idiots too. Is that any different than tree spikes? or lag bolts? Same goes for the guys that damage indian ruins and leave trash behind on public ground. Graffiti chaps my hide as well. I could go on and on. They are birds of a feather imo.


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## kailey29us

If I am going to put a stand in extra early I put the stand in but take the ladder back out with me. I know if someone really wants it they will get it anyway but I am not going to make it easy for them. I personally do not use the screw in steps, I invested a little money in the strap on ladders. They are bulky to get into the woods but if it helps with the overall health of the trees I'm all for it.


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## jerkyman

izzydog said:


> Lost 3 stands and 5 cameras around Strawberry last year from our group. Strawberry has become a zoo.


Agree...way to many people and more and more every year. The elk heard is still strong and I have had great success with Cows and a ocassional spike over the years with Bow, but may need to try something new soon. :?


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## fishawk

On the subject of laying claim to public property, what really chaps my a&$ are the people who park their camp trailers in a camp spot and leave it there ALL SUMMER LONG! I'm all for staking out a good camp spot a couple days in advance but homesteading the nice camping spots all summer long is ridiculous. I swear some of these spots have mailboxes and a picket fence. Sorry for venting.


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## PBH

fishawk said:


> On the subject of laying claim to public property, what really chaps my a&$ are the people who park their camp trailers in a camp spot and leave it there ALL SUMMER LONG! I'm all for staking out a good camp spot a couple days in advance but homesteading the nice camping spots all summer long is ridiculous. I swear some of these spots have mailboxes and a picket fence. Sorry for venting.


so, explain to me how tree-stands and pop-up tent blinds are any different? (not pointing fingers at you fishhawk)

I guess I feel the same way Muleskinner does. I just don't feel bad about people losing things when they leave them out in the woods.

for all we know, it was not a thief that took this tree-stand, but possibly a steward cleaning up our public land. Abandoning your personal property on public land is wrong. How many times have you ever seen a sign that says "Pack it in --> Pack it out!".


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## shaun larsen

So... if I 'find' an atv that's been parked on public land for 4 consecutive days, it becomes finders keepers?? Something tells me a judge wouldn't see it that way...


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## shaun larsen

fishawk said:


> On the subject of laying claim to public property, what really chaps my a&$ are the people who park their camp trailers in a camp spot and leave it there ALL SUMMER LONG! I'm all for staking out a good camp spot a couple days in advance but homesteading the nice camping spots all summer long is ridiculous. I swear some of these spots have mailboxes and a picket fence. Sorry for venting.


And for the price of only $150.00 (the cost of a ticket) you too could have the best camp site on the mountain for the entire summer! Think about it, its alot cheaper than paying to use a camp site for 14 days or driving your trailer up and down the mountain and burning fuel each weekend.


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## fishawk

> so, explain to me how tree-stands and pop-up tent blinds are any different? (not pointing fingers at you fishhawk)


I didn't say it was any different. I think if something is left on public land for extended periods of time, we shouldn't be surprised when it disappears. Not to say I wouldn't beat someone's a** if I found them stealing my property because nothing quantifies theft of another person's property regardless of the situation. In this day in age, you can't trust anyone.



> And for the price of only $150.00 (the cost of a ticket) you too could have the best camp site on the mountain for the entire summer! Think about it, its alot cheaper than paying to use a camp site for 14 days or driving your trailer up and down the mountain and burning fuel each weekend.


So that makes it right?


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## Huge29

shaun larsen said:


> So... if I 'find' an atv that's been parked on public land for 4 consecutive days, it becomes finders keepers?? Something tells me a judge wouldn't see it that way...


Maybe title property not being considered personal property, just a guess.

TEX-You have really seen this famed building full of tree stands? Where is it? I thought it was an urban legend.


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## TEX-O-BOB

Huge29 said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... if I 'find' an atv that's been parked on public land for 4 consecutive days, it becomes finders keepers?? Something tells me a judge wouldn't see it that way...
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe title property not being considered personal property, just a guess.
> 
> TEX-You have really seen this famed building full of tree stands? Where is it? I thought it was an urban legend.
Click to expand...

I've seen ONE of em. There are several. The one I saw was up in Park City back when I used to shoe horses. I did some ponies for a USFS guy and he kept them at the place. After I was done shoeing the horses he showed me the warehouse. That's also when I found out it was illegal to drive any foreign object into a tree.


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## shaun larsen

fishawk said:


> And for the price of only $150.00 (the cost of a ticket) you too could have the best camp site on the mountain for the entire summer! Think about it, its alot cheaper than paying to use a camp site for 14 days or driving your trailer up and down the mountain and burning fuel each weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> So that makes it right?
Click to expand...

guess that's up to the guys with deep pockets to decide


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## Mr Muleskinner

If a treestand is stolen in the middle woods and nobody is there to see it, does it make a sound?


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## TEX-O-BOB

Mr Muleskinner said:


> If a treestand is stolen in the middle woods and nobody is there to see it, does it make a sound?


 :lol:

If a man opens his mouth and says something, and a woman doesn't hear it, is he still wrong?


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## bowgy

Since the camping limit is 14 to 16 days I believe you can leave your camp trailer there for more than 72 hours without it being taken and someone mentioned the difference between titled and untitled personal property, what if it were a tent that you set up to camp in for the 14 to 16 days? And if you can set up a tent for that long without it being abandoned property, what law says you have to have a tent? Couldn't it be just a cot and a sleeping bag? And if so, couldn't a lawn chair qualify? And if so, wouldn't a tree stand be just as good? Just sayin.


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## Flyfishn247

bowgy said:


> Since the camping limit is 14 to 16 days I believe you can leave your camp trailer there for more than 72 hours without it being taken and someone mentioned the difference between titled and untitled personal property, what if it were a tent that you set up to camp in for the 14 to 16 days? And if you can set up a tent for that long without it being abandoned property, what law says you have to have a tent? Couldn't it be just a cot and a sleeping bag? And if so, couldn't a lawn chair qualify? And if so, wouldn't a tree stand be just as good? Just sayin.


You do have a point, there is just so much gray area and speculation, whose to say what is right?


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## TEX-O-BOB

Here's a simple solution to all the "grey" area. If you're in the woods and you come across something you didn't put there, it aint yours! Leave it alone! 

We were fishing on Willard last year. We were out in the middle of the lake trolling between two marker buoys about two hundred yards apart. Suddenly we looked at our other buoy and some guy was over there winding it up and getting ready to take it. So we reeled up, motored over there and asked him why he was taking our marker buoy? He said "Oh, this is yours? I thought someone just left it out here." :roll: I said, "Ya, I left it out here so I could mark where I wanted to fish. Now drop it back in the water and leave it alone!"  

So now, to help out would be idiots on the water, I've taken a black sharpie marker and written "NOT YOURS" on all my marker buoys so people wont get confused about the "grey" area with fishing tackle in a lake... :evil:


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## huntnbum

I'm thinkin a well placed boot takes care of a bad gene pool :shock:


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## Mr Muleskinner

Point taken on the buoys Tex but that is nothing like leaving a tree stand in the woods all summer or even through the winter. Let alone leaving lag bolts in a tree for five years like the guy that started this post. If guys would remove their crap people would have no choice but leave it alone because it would be in the garage.


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## shaun larsen

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Here's a simple solution to all the "grey" area. If you're in the woods and you come across something you didn't put there, it aint yours! Leave it alone!


A-FREAKING-MEN!!

i was hunting ducks last year with some friends. one of my buddies had to leave around noon. the birds started flying later in the morning so me and my other friend decided we were going to stay and hunt the rest of the day. so we left at around 1145, to take him back to the launch so he could leave. didnt think picking up the spread was really necessary since we would be right back. i was maybe gone 15 minutes total from my decoys. when i got back there was 2 ****s sitting over my spread, getting ready to hunt! i asked them what the hell and they replied since they were left unattended, that they were now theirs to hunt over..... and no this was not on a WMA. :roll:

some people are so stupid its sad... -)O(-


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## jerkyman

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Point taken on the buoys Tex but that is nothing like leaving a tree stand in the woods all summer or even through the winter. Let alone leaving lag bolts in a tree for five years like the guy that started this post. If guys would remove their crap people would have no choice but leave it alone because it would be in the garage.


Yes a couple of lag bolts where in the tree pictured. I stated they were there already. Why not use them instead of damaging a tree further? I would never put a lag bolt in a tree. One its way to loud to pound one of those frickin things in a tree where your gonna hunt and its going to do a ton of damage. I think a screw in tree step is not a big deal. 
I see no issue with putting a tree stand up for the bow hunt and then taking it out with you on the last day. Taking it in and out of the area where your hunting time and time again would be nuts. No matter how quiet you think you can be putting up a stand your going to make noise and disturb the area your hunting. Best to put it up and let the area return to normal. I agree with your comment that people need to remove their crap but I do not think a 3 week season is excessive.


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## bwhntr

Holy sh*! people, it this really that hard to figure out? Tex nailed it earlier, IF IT ISN'T YOURS, LEAVE IT ALONE! You public land hunters are a bunch of whining SOB's. Who cares if the treestand has been there a month or 15 years? Who cares??? Do you really give a sh*! about a lag bolt? I know I don't, guess what, the tree doesn't care either. 

We all know the difference between trash and a camera, we know the difference between trash and a treestand. There is no gray area. If it's trash take it with you, if it isn't and it's not yours then leave it alone. 

If you take a treestand or camera that isn't yours, your not doing a good deed, YOU'RE A THIEF!


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## TEX-O-BOB

I think I just figured out my new source of income! I'm going "trash" hunting in the mountains. Every time I come across a piece of "trash" I'm going to pick it up and sell it on KSL. Hell, I'll bet I could dump a half dozen trail cameras a day! I know where at least ten are right now! After all, it it gets left in the woods over night it must be abandoned! Fair's fair!


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## Critter

I think that if you leave something in the woods then it becomes "Community Property" and can be used on a first come first served. That way everything should stay in place. So if you leave your tree stand and when you get to it on opening day and somebody else is sitting in it they get it for the day or until they climb down. Same for the cameras. If you come across one you get to replace the memory card with a blank one so that you can go to your viewer and see what is in the area. Also if you leave your trailer sitting on a camp spot and go home then who ever needs it can use it instead of having to draw his own trailer up the hill. 

See everything is quite simple.


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## cklspencer

> Holy sh*! people, it this really that hard to figure out? Tex nailed it earlier, IF IT ISN'T YOURS, LEAVE IT ALONE! You public land hunters are a bunch of whining SOB's. Who cares if the treestand has been there a month or 15 years? Who cares??? Do you really give a sh*! about a lag bolt? I know I don't, guess what, the tree doesn't care either.
> 
> We all know the difference between trash and a camera, we know the difference between trash and a treestand. There is no gray area. If it's trash take it with you, if it isn't and it's not yours then leave it alone.
> 
> If you take a treestand or camera that isn't yours, your not doing a good deed, YOU'RE A THIEF!


AGREED!!!!! Taking something that is not yours no matter who left it or why other than trash makes you a THIEF!!!!....In my book that is the eithics problem. There is no justification in taking property that does not belong to you.


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## martymcfly73

bwhntr said:


> Holy sh*! people, it this really that hard to figure out? Tex nailed it earlier, IF IT ISN'T YOURS, LEAVE IT ALONE! You public land hunters are a bunch of whining SOB's. Who cares if the treestand has been there a month or 15 years? Who cares??? Do you really give a sh*! about a lag bolt? I know I don't, guess what, the tree doesn't care either.
> 
> We all know the difference between trash and a camera, we know the difference between trash and a treestand. There is no gray area. If it's trash take it with you, if it isn't and it's not yours then leave it alone.
> 
> If you take a treestand or camera that isn't yours, your not doing a good deed, YOU'RE A THIEF!


Your logic is all wrong! How dare you suggest that in our untitled society we leave OTHER people's things alone! Finders keepers man. It's sad this is even an issue. I blame the liberal media and Obama!


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## TEX-O-BOB

martymcfly73 said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy sh*! people, it this really that hard to figure out? Tex nailed it earlier, IF IT ISN'T YOURS, LEAVE IT ALONE! You public land hunters are a bunch of whining SOB's. Who cares if the treestand has been there a month or 15 years? Who cares??? Do you really give a sh*! about a lag bolt? I know I don't, guess what, the tree doesn't care either.
> 
> We all know the difference between trash and a camera, we know the difference between trash and a treestand. There is no gray area. If it's trash take it with you, if it isn't and it's not yours then leave it alone.
> 
> If you take a treestand or camera that isn't yours, your not doing a good deed, YOU'RE A THIEF!
> 
> 
> 
> Your logic is all wrong! How dare you suggest that in our untitled society we leave OTHER people's things alone! Finders keepers man. It's sad this is even an issue. I blame the liberal media and Obama!
Click to expand...

**** Flaming Libs! :mrgreen: It's ALL Obamas fault!!! :twisted:


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## bwhntr

Marty, there is more truth to your sarcasm than you know. I will leave it at that. 

Tex, do you need a partner for your new business? I can have a website set up and we can start selling "trash" by the end of the week.


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## dkhntrdstn

bowgy said:


> Since the camping limit is 14 to 16 days I believe you can leave your camp trailer there for more than 72 hours without it being taken and someone mentioned the difference between titled and untitled personal property, what if it were a tent that you set up to camp in for the 14 to 16 days? And if you can set up a tent for that long without it being abandoned property, what law says you have to have a tent? Couldn't it be just a cot and a sleeping bag? And if so, couldn't a lawn chair qualify? And if so, wouldn't a tree stand be just as good? Just sayin.


you just have stay in your trailer or tent the first 24 hours and then you can leave it up for the 16 days and then you move it and then you have to stay in it for the first 24 hours again.I don't see a dame thing wrong leaving a tree stand up for the whole hunt. I sure in hell don't want to pack one in and out every time i go in to hunt.Same with trail cameras. If you want to see what in the area leave your name and email address and ask the guys to send you the pic and then talk to him when he plans on hunting there and so on. That way you still get to see what in there and he still has his camera. stealing is bull **** and if I catch some one still my stuff.There family will be filing a missing person and they wont find that person at all.


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## jahan

dkhntrdstn said:


> bowgy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the camping limit is 14 to 16 days I believe you can leave your camp trailer there for more than 72 hours without it being taken and someone mentioned the difference between titled and untitled personal property, what if it were a tent that you set up to camp in for the 14 to 16 days? And if you can set up a tent for that long without it being abandoned property, what law says you have to have a tent? Couldn't it be just a cot and a sleeping bag? And if so, couldn't a lawn chair qualify? And if so, wouldn't a tree stand be just as good? Just sayin.
> 
> 
> 
> *you just have stay in your trailer or tent the first 24 hours and then you can leave it up for the 16 days and then you move it and then you have to stay in it for the first 24 hours again.*
Click to expand...

Wrong!

You can't leave it unattended for more than 72 hours which is 48 hours too long in my opinion. I hate people who think they own the mountain, it is public land. Placing a trailer on public land does not make it your own piece of private property.

Tex hit it on the head.

Disclaimer: When I say "you" I am using it in a general sense and not directed at dkhntrdstn, unless is applies. :mrgreen:


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## bwhntr

When I hunted my LE archery elk hunt. I hunted for 22 days. I brought my fifth wheel trailer up the week before the hunt and brought it back the week after the hunt. I also had to haul my 4 place gooseneck horse trailer. I stayed in the same camp the whole time....what's the problem, I guess I just assumed I owned the whole **** mountain. :roll:


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## dkhntrdstn

jahan said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bowgy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the camping limit is 14 to 16 days I believe you can leave your camp trailer there for more than 72 hours without it being taken and someone mentioned the difference between titled and untitled personal property, what if it were a tent that you set up to camp in for the 14 to 16 days? And if you can set up a tent for that long without it being abandoned property, what law says you have to have a tent? Couldn't it be just a cot and a sleeping bag? And if so, couldn't a lawn chair qualify? And if so, wouldn't a tree stand be just as good? Just sayin.
> 
> 
> 
> *you just have stay in your trailer or tent the first 24 hours and then you can leave it up for the 16 days and then you move it and then you have to stay in it for the first 24 hours again.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> You can't leave it unattended for more than 72 hours which is 48 hours too long in my opinion. I hate people who think they own the mountain, it is public land. Placing a trailer on public land does not make it your own piece of private property.
> 
> Tex hit it on the head.
> 
> Disclaimer: When I say "you" I am using it in a general sense and not directed at dkhntrdstn, unless is applies. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

that funny. i was told by the forest service that.You just have to stay in it for the first 24 hours then you can leave it untended. but every 14 to 16 days depending where you are you have to move it. My buddy got a letter on his trailer last year because we did not stay in it the first 24 hours when we dropped it off.Just because I put my tent or trailer does not mean I owen the mountain. it just means Im camping here.So this spot is being used. nothing wrong with that. I cant wait tell I get my trailer in a year. Watch out. I will have a new house to live in in the summer. :mrgreen:


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

bwhntr said:


> Who cares if the treestand has been there a month or 15 years? Who cares??? Do you really give a sh*! about a lag bolt? I know I don't, guess what, the tree doesn't care either.


I am not afraid to say that I care. In fact I take great pride in the fact that I care a bunch. People keep treating stuff like crap guess what, it becomes crap. That goes for our mountains as well. We don't need to be leaving things up there that long. If everybody had this same attitude our mountains would be in far worse shape. I commend those that do the right thing. The people that continually look for the grey areas and pick and choose what laws and/or rules are written for them, I typically don't have much use for. That's just me.

Accidents can happen away from the hunt preventing the return of the owner and now the crap becomes garbage hanging in a tree. There has to be some guidelines. People that set up a treestand and leave it there as a property tag obviously don't care. I do....if you don't like it.....well that's just tough.

Bolts of any kind are not even necessary. There are better methods. With regards to the original post about the lag bolts already being there............it never said that they were already there, before him anyhow. It said that they had been there for 5 years and I assumed that he put them there. Easy assumption to make.

Do I have a problem with guys that leave their treestand up all of the time? You bet I do. Do I feel sorry for those that get ripped off? Nope not even a little. You leave your keys hanging in the ignition long enough........well what world have you guys been living in?


----------



## Flyfishn247

I plan on taking my trailer up next Wednesday and I have no intention of bringing it down until the last day of the hunt (unless I harvest sooner). I will be spending everyday in the trailer except for 7 days throughout the month that I have to work. Why would I pull my trailer out when I will be there a couple days later in the same campground. I doubt anyone else would take the campsite as the only two days I plan on being home are Tuesday and Wednesday. 

I still don't understand your logic on trail cams muleskinner. You suggesting that the owner take it out each night? Move it to another tree every other day? What would be the point of having one if you can't leave it for extended periods of time, that's the point right?


----------



## bwhntr

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I am not afraid to say that I care. In fact I take great pride in the fact that I care a bunch. People keep treating stuff like crap guess what, it becomes crap. That goes for our mountains as well. We don't need to be leaving things up there that long. If everybody had this same attitude our mountains would be in far worse shape. I commend those that do the right thing. The people that continually look for the grey areas and pick and choose what laws and/or rules are written for them, I typically don't have much use for. That's just me.
> 
> Accidents can happen away from the hunt preventing the return of the owner and now the crap becomes garbage hanging in a tree. There has to be some guidelines. People that set up a treestand and leave it there as a property tag obviously don't care. I do....if you don't like it.....well that's just tough.
> 
> Bolts of any kind are not even necessary. There are better methods. With regards to the original post about the lag bolts already being there............it never said that they were already there, before him anyhow. It said that they had been there for 5 years and I assumed that he put them there. Easy assumption to make.
> 
> Do I have a problem with guys that leave their treestand up all of the time? You bet I do. Do I feel sorry for those that get ripped off? Nope not even a little. You leave your keys hanging in the ignition long enough........well what world have you guys been living in?


I guess we agree to disagree. I really don't care, I don't see this as a problem that many make it into. I still stand by my statement, if you take a treestand, camera, whatever that isn't your's, YOU ARE A THIEF. But hey, that is just my opinion.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

I never argued with that. Nothing there to disagree on.


----------



## bwhntr

Stop agreeing...that's no fun.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

I'll go through some threads and see if I can dig up something that we can argue about......

Wait.....that sounds like the job of a woman.


----------



## bwhntr

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I'll go through some threads and see if I can dig up something that we can argue about......
> 
> Wait.....that sounds like the job of a woman.


 :mrgreen:


----------



## jahan

bwhntr said:


> When I hunted my LE archery elk hunt. I hunted for 22 days. I brought my fifth wheel trailer up the week before the hunt and brought it back the week after the hunt. I also had to haul my 4 place gooseneck horse trailer. I stayed in the same camp the whole time....what's the problem, I guess I just assumed I owned the whole **** mountain. :roll:


No problem with that, my problem is like last year some guy brought his trailer up, left it in a very large spot. Did not come back for a week, stayed one night and left the next day and did this for a month. He essentially reserved a very nice spot for a month and stayed in his trailer about 5 days total, that is my grip.

I don't have a problem even if people stay longer than 16 days if they are using the spot, I have a problem with people reserving the spots so they can use it every now and again. I will never mess with people personal property, but I may start setting up camp all around their trailer, then they can decide when they show up if they want to make new friends or leave. I wouldn't block them in, so if they wanted to leave they could, nothing illegal.


----------



## bwhntr

Jahan, it was only ok for me because I own the mountain. Got it?


----------



## jahan

Got it? Dually noted. :mrgreen: :lol: God is the only one who owns them there mountains. :mrgreen: :lol:


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

I agree that anyone who steals a stand is a thief. 

I plan to leave my trailer empty for three days. There will be several trailers parked in the same area and someone will be camped there the whole time my trailer is there.


----------



## bwhntr

jahan said:


> Got it? Dually noted. :mrgreen: :lol: God is the only one who owns them there mountains. :mrgreen: :lol:


 :mrgreen:


----------



## Flyfishn247

jahan said:


> I don't have a problem even if people stay longer than 16 days if they are using the spot, I have a problem with people reserving the spots so they can use it every now and again. I will never mess with people personal property, but I may start setting up camp all around their trailer, then they can decide when they show up if they want to make new friends or leave. I wouldn't block them in, so if they wanted to leave they could, nothing illegal.


Haha, I did that last year. Noticed a tent trailer that had been parked in some trees up on Dock Flats near Strawberry (one of the worst locations for this type of campsite squatting) for a couple weeks with no one around. Due to the lack of spots, I told my wife screw it and pulled in my trailer in a spot right next to it that they we obviously trying to save. Well the next night the owners returned with about 3 other vehicles and were surprised to see us right next to them. I told them I was OK if they wanted to camp there with us, but they opted to hook up and move out. No skin off my back.


----------



## Critter

The last time that I wanted to go camping and found all the spaces taken by summer squatters I pulled right into a spot that had a nice 5th wheel trailer in. There was plenty of space and when we went looking for fire wood that night we found a nice pile of it just inside the tree line that was all cut and split. We never did find out who owned the trailer or who split the wood but we had a nice fire for 3 nights untill the wood ran out on the last night.


----------



## Flyfishn247

Critter said:


> The last time that I wanted to go camping and found all the spaces taken by summer squatters I pulled right into a spot that had a nice 5th wheel trailer in. There was plenty of space and when we went looking for fire wood that night we found a nice pile of it just inside the tree line that was all cut and split. We never did find out who owned the trailer or who split the wood but we had a nice fire for 3 nights untill the wood ran out on the last night.


:lol: That is awesome. Yeah, if there is a trailer in a campsite and they aren't there at least during the weekends, space and firewood should be fair game, but I wont mess with their personal property.


----------



## utaharcheryhunter

What about boobie-trapping the stuff you leave? I am sure I could figure out some contraption that would disfigure if you decide to take?


----------



## Fishracer

dkhntrdstn said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bowgy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the camping limit is 14 to 16 days I believe you can leave your camp trailer there for more than 72 hours without it being taken and someone mentioned the difference between titled and untitled personal property, what if it were a tent that you set up to camp in for the 14 to 16 days? And if you can set up a tent for that long without it being abandoned property, what law says you have to have a tent? Couldn't it be just a cot and a sleeping bag? And if so, couldn't a lawn chair qualify? And if so, wouldn't a tree stand be just as good? Just sayin.
> 
> 
> 
> *you just have stay in your trailer or tent the first 24 hours and then you can leave it up for the 16 days and then you move it and then you have to stay in it for the first 24 hours again.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> You can't leave it unattended for more than 72 hours which is 48 hours too long in my opinion. I hate people who think they own the mountain, it is public land. Placing a trailer on public land does not make it your own piece of private property.
> 
> Tex hit it on the head.
> 
> Disclaimer: When I say "you" I am using it in a general sense and not directed at dkhntrdstn, unless is applies. :mrgreen:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that funny. i was told by the forest service that.You just have to stay in it for the first 24 hours then you can leave it untended. but every 14 to 16 days depending where you are you have to move it. My buddy got a letter on his trailer last year because we did not stay in it the first 24 hours when we dropped it off.Just because I put my tent or trailer does not mean I owen the mountain. it just means Im camping here.So this spot is being used. nothing wrong with that. I cant wait tell I get my trailer in a year. Watch out. I will have a new house to live in in the summer. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

So your saying the dwr officer has nothing better to do. He just sat outside your trailer with a stopwatch. That is as ridiculous as i have ever heard of. I see a flaw in your story. :roll:


----------



## colorcountrygunner

I stole me a tree stand last year. Wasn't on public land though. It was on my family's own private land. I called everyone I knew who would have had any business hunting there and none of them knew anything about it so the stand came home with me. I'm actually using the stand this year in a spot not far from where I found it! Woohoo for free tree stands!


----------



## martymcfly73

Flyfishn247 said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a problem even if people stay longer than 16 days if they are using the spot, I have a problem with people reserving the spots so they can use it every now and again. I will never mess with people personal property, but I may start setting up camp all around their trailer, then they can decide when they show up if they want to make new friends or leave. I wouldn't block them in, so if they wanted to leave they could, nothing illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, I did that last year. Noticed a tent trailer that had been parked in some trees up on Dock Flats near Strawberry (one of the worst locations for this type of campsite squatting) for a couple weeks with no one around. Due to the lack of spots, I told my wife screw it and pulled in my trailer in a spot right next to it that they we obviously trying to save. Well the next night the owners returned with about 3 other vehicles and were surprised to see us right next to them. I told them I was OK if they wanted to camp there with us, but they opted to hook up and move out. No skin off my back.
Click to expand...

I had someone set up camp within spitting distance of me once. I didn't care, but I ran my generators all night for three nights so I could have my AC on. Public land so they could do what they wanted.


----------



## stimmie78

Since this thread has become the subject of setting up trailers and leaving them and off topic of stolen tree stands I'll share something. Earlier this year we had our annual Father and Sons outing. We were hoping for a big crowd and not wanting to get in trouble I applied for a group use permit. Since we had a permit we had to have a location on the permit. We have cooked whole hogs for dinner the past few years so those of us cooking had to get up there early. Well when we showed up there was a massive 5th wheel trailer parked where we planned on being. We set up the pit and cooked the pig anyway. Later in the afternoon the owner showed up. We invited him to stay but he didn't want to. He was annoyed that we set up right by his trailer and all that. After moving all our tables and chairs and him taking 45 minutes to hook on to his trailer he was on his way. My in-laws were there the night before and said no one was around the trailer that night either. Funny thing was the guy is the grandpa of one of the girls at work. She said he was pretty ticked off but knew there was nothing he could do about it since he was in the wrong leaving his trailer there.


----------



## shaun larsen

"So your saying the dwr officer has nothing better to do. He just sat outside your trailer with a stopwatch. That is as ridiculous as i have ever heard of. I see a flaw in your story. :roll:"
Basically they don't have anything better to do than this kind of crap. I know first hand.


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## klbzdad

There is no time limit on leaving a tree stand on public land. Despite my despise for lag bolts like that put in a tree and left there, I always leave a "babysitter" with my stands to record who might crawl up in them. I do it for two reasons...the theft issue and the safety issue. If someone is using my stands and not using fall protection, I'll read them the riot act on fall safety. If they were to steal it (it is theft, end of story) I want to know who it is so I can read them more than the riot act and file a complaint (you can do that when someone steals something). 

Regarding the abondonment clauses and taking something chained to a tree. One must presume that because it is locked to a tree that the person who put it there intends for it to remain their property. Shooting a lock off of something that isn't yours and any reasonable person could presume belongs to someone else (obviously) makes you a pig vomit jerkoff thief.

Sorry about your stand being taken. If you use tree friendly climbing sticks and take them with you when you're not in the stand, you've all but eliminated theft and safety concerns and the tree stays healthy. Good luck in your pursuit!


----------



## richardjb

klbzdad said:


> There is no time limit on leaving a tree stand on public land. Despite my despise for lag bolts like that put in a tree and left there, I always leave a "babysitter" with my stands to record who might crawl up in them. I do it for two reasons...the theft issue and the safety issue. If someone is using my stands and not using fall protection, I'll read them the riot act on fall safety. If they were to steal it (it is theft, end of story) I want to know who it is so I can read them more than the riot act and file a complaint (you can do that when someone steals something).
> 
> Regarding the abondonment clauses and taking something chained to a tree. One must presume that because it is locked to a tree that the person who put it there intends for it to remain their property. Shooting a lock off of something that isn't yours and any reasonable person could presume belongs to someone else (obviously) makes you a pig vomit jerkoff thief.
> 
> Sorry about your stand being taken. If you use tree friendly climbing sticks and take them with you when you're not in the stand, you've all but eliminated theft and safety concerns and the tree stays healthy. Good luck in your pursuit!


Can you please direct me to law or reg that says I can leave a stand as long as I want. On a matter that I had to relay GPS points to a USFS rep to check out, she found my treestand and gave me a gentle warning that I could only keep my stand out there 16 days. I had left it out there over the winter because I blew my knee out during the hunt. I have since had my knee replaced, so I'm in the process of removing it, or finding another place to stash it until the end of month. Written guidance would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## cklspencer

> Can you please direct me to law or reg that says I can leave a stand as long as I want. On a matter that I had to relay GPS points to a USFS rep to check out, she found my treestand and gave me a gentle warning that I could only keep my stand out there 16 days. I had left it out there over the winter because I blew my knee out during the hunt. I have since had my knee replaced, so I'm in the process of removing it, or finding another place to stash it until the end of month. Written guidance would be greatly appreciated.


Show us were it says 16 days.


----------



## duckhunter1096

OYE... All I have to say is... "Would you leave your wallet in the forest"? Don't rule out the fact that it could be some anti-hunting dootchbags as well...


----------



## klbzdad

richardjb said:


> klbzdad said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no time limit on leaving a tree stand on public land. Despite my despise for lag bolts like that put in a tree and left there, I always leave a "babysitter" with my stands to record who might crawl up in them. I do it for two reasons...the theft issue and the safety issue. If someone is using my stands and not using fall protection, I'll read them the riot act on fall safety. If they were to steal it (it is theft, end of story) I want to know who it is so I can read them more than the riot act and file a complaint (you can do that when someone steals something).
> 
> Regarding the abondonment clauses and taking something chained to a tree. One must presume that because it is locked to a tree that the person who put it there intends for it to remain their property. Shooting a lock off of something that isn't yours and any reasonable person could presume belongs to someone else (obviously) makes you a pig vomit jerkoff thief.
> 
> Sorry about your stand being taken. If you use tree friendly climbing sticks and take them with you when you're not in the stand, you've all but eliminated theft and safety concerns and the tree stays healthy. Good luck in your pursuit!
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please direct me to law or reg that says I can leave a stand as long as I want. On a matter that I had to relay GPS points to a USFS rep to check out, she found my treestand and gave me a gentle warning that I could only keep my stand out there 16 days. I had left it out there over the winter because I blew my knee out during the hunt. I have since had my knee replaced, so I'm in the process of removing it, or finding another place to stash it until the end of month. Written guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

There isn't one...just like there isn't one that pertains to other personal property becoming "abandoned" when the owner knows where it is and intends to return to it. The elements of a crime (infraction, violation, etc...) include INTENT to do it. Therefore this argument of "finders keepers" on tree stands and cameras is a crock of bull. If its not yours, leave it the hell alone! If you have a problem with it, notify the authorities who have AUTHORITY to investigate and take LEGAL action. This is such a dumb and tired argument.

Also, my trailer stays up all summer, but I move it, and each time, I leave the site improved over what it was when I set up there so I don't feel bad if I'm over the 16 day limit. Also, why not let others hand out in a great campsite with you....that's how we meet people especially those we share a common interest with. If they are butt
hurt about you being there, be kind to them and remember that it is owned by everyone.


----------



## richardjb

cklspencer said:


> Can you please direct me to law or reg that says I can leave a stand as long as I want. On a matter that I had to relay GPS points to a USFS rep to check out, she found my treestand and gave me a gentle warning that I could only keep my stand out there 16 days. I had left it out there over the winter because I blew my knee out during the hunt. I have since had my knee replaced, so I'm in the process of removing it, or finding another place to stash it until the end of month. Written guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Show us were it says 16 days.
Click to expand...

Relaying what FS person told me over the phone, That's why I asked for more guidance. I'm sure if i asked 10 different FS folks the same question, I would get 10 different answers. I would like to see in writing where it says no treestand left in woods, no matter how many days.


----------



## richardjb

That's just it Kdad, no one can give exact info. I tire of being given bad info from folks who should know. I camp in Ashely Forest on the north slope, and plenty of camps there over 16 days w/out a problem. The last 2 years on archery hunts I stayed up for the entire month, no problem.


----------



## klbzdad

Each Ranger District can set and alter limits or issue permits. You'll need to find it for yourself on the public land you're using. The BLM's regs are basically the same. The first link is the definitions or general prohibitions, the second is the regulations partaining to dispersed camping and occupation of forest service land, etc...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-t ... bpartA.pdf

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-t ... bpartB.pdf

General Rule 36....

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedet ... ycord=1200

I fail to find one **** mention of "treestand" anywhere in the regulations but hopefully someone can use the link above to let us all know. Also, cameras can be there so long as they aren't used for commercial use....I'm busy doing my morning show and can't give the exact reg on that but there is one! Google Forest Service Camera Permits.....


----------



## richardjb

Thanks for the links. It mentions adbandoning property, but if I plan to return to it, I'm not abandoning it.


----------



## duckhunter1096

K-Dad... You said something that stands out to me... "Even if I am over the 16 day limit"... So, rules & regulations don't apply to you (GENERAL you, not specifically you) as long as we leave the area in better condition? Better condition is truly in the eye of the beer holder (Yes, I said beer holder). A gangster who tags a wall, firmly believes that wall is prettier when they leave. Just a thought. Rules are rules... Regardless of conditions.


----------



## klbzdad

You are right! Generally the only reason to go over the 16 day limit is because you've returned home for a period of that time and haven't gone up to move......longer than that, apply for a permit from the forest service. All they really want to do is allow everyone to share the forest and to prevent homesteading. Nobody is above the rules, I've gotten the cute little note reminding me to move just like everyone else does when they overstay one site. 

As far as cleaning up a site, I remove beer cans that were empty and apparently got to **** heavy for the dope drinking it to carry out himself......don't know how a beer can gets heavier as it gets empty, but that seems to be what happens on the mountain. SOOOOO, I clean up the site, occasionally will down dangerous trees, and I always clean up fire fuel and burn it when allowed. Yes, my camp sites end up nice and clean by many's standards because I intend to return to them again the following year.


----------



## PBH

Just finished writing up a new program for my cameras. You guys that have to go check your cameras are so behind...

Anyway -- I've got some new equipment (transceivers, wireless link, cell card, etc.) connected to my camera so that I don't have to go check them. I wrote a nifty program that will actually notify me when new pictures have been taken, and I can remotely take a quick look at the camera to view the picks / delete / download / etc. This can be done either via my computer (for while I'm at work) or on my cell phone (when I'm not at work). It's really pretty cool!

Hunting is just getting easier, and easier. I'm still developing another system that will actually hold my bow in the drawn position with a trigger release. i just have to have it aimed at the right place (utilizing bait). I then have a sensor to notify me when an animal is at the bait station, I remotely log in to the camera and if the animal is the one I want, I just "pull the trigger". A short hour later, I'll be at my setup looking for the kill!


(I have boobie traps setup all around my setup, so any of you guys without any morals looking to swipe my stuff better watch out!)


----------



## kailey29us

PBH said:


> A short hour later, I'll be at my setup looking for the kill!
> 
> (I have boobie traps setup all around my setup, so any of you guys without any morals looking to swipe my stuff better watch out!)


Talk about behind the times......sheesh. I have almost the same set up but a robot is immediately released to go track my freshly killed animal and deliver to the meat cutter for me. That way I don't have to get all icky with the blood and dirt and stuff. Plus you never know when it's going to rain in the mountains, wouldn't want to get wet either.


----------



## klbzdad

PBH said:


> Just finished writing up a new program for my cameras. You guys that have to go check your cameras are so behind...


And yet I gave someone WAY too much credit by stating that I keep waiting to see them on one of my many cameras. But to date......not one photo of him......weird. I must have overestimated that person's extreme scouting ability or I need to move my cameras closer to the road?

Buckeye Cam's already do what your program and cell phone setup will do, but I get it. :O•-:


----------



## Huge29

duckhunter1096 said:


> K-Dad... You said something that stands out to me... "Even if I am over the 16 day limit"... So, rules & regulations don't apply to you (GENERAL you, not specifically you) as long as we leave the area in better condition? Better condition is truly in the eye of the beer holder (Yes, I said beer holder).


Well said, I along with the others who have complained about this very practice find it to be a crock of bull! It sounds like you are due to buy your own land where you can leave it all summer. You complain about the beer drinkers being too lazy to pick up their cans, but I will guess that the reason that you don't take your trailer home like everybody else revolves around the same reason. I await the day to hear about your complaints of people camping all around you...it isn't yours and hopefully you can better appreciate how we all share it, just cleaning it up does not justify breaking the law/policy the majority of us leave the place better than we found it. o-||


----------



## klbzdad

Huge29 said:


> I await the day to hear about your complaints of people camping all around you...it isn't yours and hopefully you can better appreciate how we all share it, just cleaning it up does not justify breaking the law/policy the majority of us leave the place better than we found it.


Read my previous posts, Huge. I don't own it....WE own it, but I do spend a ton of time up in the mountain and occasionally my rig does go on private property for this very reason. I also don't mind people camping with me. I also don't justify in anyway "breaking the law/policy". If I need to stay in one place for a good reason, there are permits one can obtain but I actually like bouncing from once place to another so it'll be a long wait for any complaint from me concerning campers around me and if they are good people, I'll buy them a beer (even though i don't drink). I'm happy to save an apple beer for you if you'd like to join us sometime!

I remember someone else complaining about people leaving their trash all over the place during the summer including those magic aluminum beer cans.....hmmmmmm


----------



## Squigie

There are currently 6 trailers on public land, within 300 yards of FR 048 (South Slope), that have been there since February with as much as nine weeks between uses. (Aside from the dozen others than have been there all summer.) Two of them are hold-overs from LAST YEAR, and had zero apparent use over the winter. One of them even had the door swinging in the wind from November through April.
Of the six, two have expired registration and another has (had) no tag at all.

A few years ago, I talked to two Rangers and a few people in the Vernal Ashley Nat'l Forest office about the issue (wasn't quite as bad, then). Their response was nearly unanimous: We can't tell you it's okay to take matters into your own hands, but passing the information on to us would be appreciated. And... using a non-damaging method to mark them would help.

The rules apply to _everyone_. Not "everyone else".

By Tuesday, the owner of a green '56 Aljo should be getting that reminder.  
If the owner happens to be some one on this board... I want my sign back, if you can even afford to pay the towing and impound fees for the "off road recovery" of a trailer. ...I hear it's pretty expensive. :lol:


----------



## klbzdad

That is a good example of "abandonment". I don't go more than a couple days between being at my trailer for at least the evening and only live 35 minutes away. Leaving a trailer that long? That reminds me.....my expiration runs out the end of this month! Thanks for the reminder!!!!!


----------



## JERRY

klbzdad said:


> I remember someone else complaining about people leaving their trash all over the place during the summer including those magic aluminum beer cans.....hmmmmmm


Was up bear hunting this spring and found this...... Disgusting! Lawn chairs, food cans, screws and nails from pallets. Right in the middle of a nice meadow. :evil:

I don't get it. Which brings me to thief's. Some people just have no respect!!!! :roll:


----------



## Huge29

I had not ever paid much attention to those leaving trailers; just today I rode a very small piece of Skyline Dr and there were two camps just like that, not even a chair out to make it look like they were using it... If I really wanted that spot I would just joint them in it leaving them just enough room to get their's out, but that is it.


----------



## JuddCT

Tons of rigs went up the Skyline Friday/Saturday and will sit dormant for about a week. The lady ranger that checks where I hunt puts a piece of see through tape over the door and comes back 3 days later. If it isn't broke you better expect a citation.


----------



## Fishracer

I like how people justify breaking the law with there excuses. It does not matter what your reason is for leaving a trailer / camper on the mountain, it is against the law! I believe the only reason why people do this is because the risk of getting a citation is very low. Alot of times this goes unnoticed or ignored by law enforcement. If there were alot more people getting citations for this you would bet it would stop. On that note. I can totally see why people would leave there trailers on the mountain especially if they were returning in a couple of days. But at the end of the day you are still breaking the law.


----------



## klbzdad

Fishracer.....read the entire thread. I don't think anyone is trying to "justify" anything. I now have a permit to leave my trailer for 60 days due to a construction project in the area. No doubt there will be a few who get upset but that is the legal method. When I've exceeded the 16 day rule, I move as soon as possible and if they cite me, I'll pay the citation because I know I'm in violation. 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say those who are calling out the trailer camping crowd here don't exactly follow the speed limit all the time either. The root in all of this comes down to intent and no doubt some deserve a citation.


----------



## Huge29

klbzdad said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say those who are calling out the trailer camping crowd here don't exactly follow the speed limit all the time either. The root in all of this comes down to intent and no doubt some deserve a citation.


You could probably come up with a much better metaphor than that; if I speed it does not take the opportunity away from another person to speed it gives them more opportunity as I am off of the highway quicker. :mrgreen: 
What annoys me is just the lack of caring about anyone else's oppurtunity, just selfish, your construction project would clearly be a totally valid exception. But, to leave a trailer there essentially abandoned getting less use than sitting in the knucklehead's driveway really irks me, most of my pet peeve's revolve around selfishness or pure ignorance of how one's actions affect others. Like shoulder hopping on the freeway, one nice perk of driving a truck just leave them out there on the shoulder when it is a blatant attempt to get ahead of everyone else, I will gladly let you in when you merge early... :evil:


----------



## ktowncamo

I don't really care if guys leave trailers/rigs up on the mountain cause I don't hunt near any of them. 

As for treestand theft that's a low life move. That said, I hope my stand is still there that I left last year after the snow got too deep to retrieve it. Only paid $20 for it but wouldn't blame anyone if they did take it since I'm the moron that left it there all year. (locked to the tree, but still the finger points at me.)


----------



## PBH

ktowncamo said:


> I hope my stand is still there that I left last year after the snow got too deep to retrieve it.


This is what bugs me with all of this. It's the "I'll retrieve it next time" mentality. Then it snows. Then you have to wait 'til spring. Then you get busy, and it turns into summer, and then fall is here again. Then you decide to hunt a different area / unit. So, your treestand just became litter.

Pack it in --> Pack it out. No exceptions.


----------



## shaun larsen

PBH said:


> ktowncamo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope my stand is still there that I left last year after the snow got too deep to retrieve it.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what bugs me with all of this. It's the "I'll retrieve it next time" mentality. Then it snows. Then you have to wait 'til spring. Then you get busy, and it turns into summer, and then fall is here again. Then you decide to hunt a different area / unit. So, your treestand just became litter.
> 
> Pack it in --> Pack it out. No exceptions.
Click to expand...

Forget jesus being the example! Wanna find the perfect people? Join an internet hunting forum, especially the Utah based ones! There you'll find the perfect examples :roll:


----------



## klbzdad

shaun larsen said:


> PBH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ktowncamo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope my stand is still there that I left last year after the snow got too deep to retrieve it.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what bugs me with all of this. It's the "I'll retrieve it next time" mentality. Then it snows. Then you have to wait 'til spring. Then you get busy, and it turns into summer, and then fall is here again. Then you decide to hunt a different area / unit. So, your treestand just became litter.
> 
> Pack it in --> Pack it out. No exceptions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forget jesus being the example! Wanna find the perfect people? Join an internet hunting forum, especially the Utah based ones! There you'll find the perfect examples :roll:
Click to expand...

+1

I'm going to leave my last remaining hang on stand right where it is. I'm going to take the lock off it too. When PBH finds it, I hope he takes my "litter" with him before I decide its time to go and get it. Because its really bugging everyone and the animals and all and the tree HAS to be irritated by now! :roll: :roll:

By the way, according to my GPS, its less than 85 yards from the road and according to a tape measure, its about 23 feet up the tree. You can have the pegs and the bow holder too but you'd better hurry, I might decide to take it down before the rifle hunt!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Well let's have a little sarcasm the other way then. How about we all buy an extra treestand, hang em up and leave them there. We can all say that we got too busy or didn't expect it to freaking snow in the mountains. (Go figure) We can also encourage all of the up and coming hunters to do the same thing because that is the exact message that being sent here. The trees and animals don't complain so it must be okay. 

Hunters=Conservationists? Not necessarily.

You may not hear people complaining because you aren't in the woods to hear it. Do they bother people? **** straight they do. You think you're better than the thieves but fact is they are not breaking the law. It's you. Keep up the lazy and sloppy habits and next thing you know there will be a fight to even use them.


----------



## wapiti67

Here's a thought...don't use a treestand...we're in the west for hecks sake..


----------



## 73elkhunter

Well I have to admit this is an interesting Thread. I have hunted and guided all my life and like the last post I don't understand the tree stand need out here in Utah. I can tell you the saftey of a tree stand especially up in the high country is more than we care to take especially due to the fact we pack in 13+ miles if you get hurt you may die. I am not saying you will get hurt but it is not worth the risk just build a blind out of the local material that you can disperse easily so as not to piss off the tree huggers. I know this is not ideal for all situations but thats what we do. Besides I am 6'6" 270 lbs and I really dont trust tree stands with my life. anyway good luck to everyone just dont shoot mine.


----------



## 73elkhunter

how did that happen lol


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## klbzdad

Hmmmmmkay......I'm no better than a THIEF? Have a nice evening!


----------



## richardjb

I will never understand the cannibals and useful idiots that preach their way is the only way. IF IT IS LEGAL AND SAFE, AND DOES NOTHING TO UPSET THE MANAGEMENT OF BIG GAME, get over yourselves. SOME OF YOU HAVEN'T A CLUE AS TO WHAT IS NEEDED TO MANAGE OUR HERDS!!!!!!!!!!!! Manage the resource, not the hunter! So simple, it's stupid!


----------



## wyogoob

I'm fessin' up.

I had a tree stand that was a metal folding chair nailed to a white oak tree, South Edwards River Bottoms south of Andover Iliinois. 1971 

The folding chair was stolen from the VanDeMoore Funeral home....uh...that would make me an accomplice to a tree stand thief.




page 12


----------



## richardjb

wyogoob said:


> I'm fessin' up.
> 
> I had a tree stand that was a metal folding chair nailed to a white oak tree, South Edwards River Bottoms south of Andover Iliinois. 1971
> 
> The folding chair was stolen from the VanDeMoore Funeral home....uh...that would make me an accomplice to a tree stand thief.
> 
> page 12


HA! Repent!


----------



## klbzdad

bwhntr said:


> Holy sh*! people, it this really that hard to figure out? Tex nailed it earlier, IF IT ISN'T YOURS, LEAVE IT ALONE! You public land hunters are a bunch of whining SOB's. Who cares if the treestand has been there a month or 15 years? Who cares??? Do you really give a sh*! about a lag bolt? I know I don't, guess what, the tree doesn't care either.
> 
> We all know the difference between trash and a camera, we know the difference between trash and a treestand. There is no gray area. If it's trash take it with you, if it isn't and it's not yours then leave it alone.
> 
> If you take a treestand or camera that isn't yours, your not doing a good deed, YOU'RE A THIEF!


Just quoting so that people "get it".


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

wapiti67 said:


> Here's a thought...don't use a treestand...we're in the west for hecks sake..


Why use a tree stand? Because they WORK! Two truck loads of deer and 17 elk later and I'm sold on em!  Why would anyone hunt any other way?


----------



## richardjb

TEX-O-BOB said:


> wapiti67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a thought...don't use a treestand...we're in the west for hecks sake..
> 
> 
> 
> Why use a tree stand? Because they WORK! Two truck loads of deer and 17 elk later and I'm sold on em!  Why would anyone hunt any other way?
Click to expand...

My last 6 critters taken from stands. 4 here in Utah(OUT WEST), 2 in Wisconsin. For the longest time, I tried the western thing and hunted on the ground. Took a couple critters. Started treestand hunting out here and used more ambush methods. It works! Some of us learn new things, some cling on to what they know. Nothing wrong with that. Let me hunt!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

I have no issues with using a treestand at all. I have sat in them for many, many hours. My problem lies with leaving them behind and staging them for a time frame that is not legal as the written law . I have stated before that things for me are black and white. If it is within the law all is fine with me. Those of you that knowingly break the law on purpose to gain an advantage or just because you are too lazy to pack it out........well no, you are really no better than the thief. Furthermore you are not very "sporting".


----------



## Squigie

I can't find anything in the general Forest Service regs, State regs, or local Forest Service regs (various offices) about a time limit for tree stands or trail cameras. The only thing close, are campsite time limits.

Those of you claiming you've been warned or cited for exceeding the limit, or those of you claiming there are limits; can you provide a citation for the actual regulations your speaking of? 
(Not just word of mouth, but the actual regulations.)


----------



## klbzdad

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I have no issues with using a treestand at all. I have sat in them for many, many hours. My problem lies with leaving them behind and staging them for a time frame that is not legal as the written law . I have stated before that things for me are black and white. If it is within the law all is fine with me. Those of you that knowingly break the law on purpose to gain an advantage or just because you are too lazy to pack it out........well no, you are really no better than the thief. Furthermore you are not very "sporting".


I keep reading about a law that applies to treestands being left in the woods and a supposed time limit for them to be there. As requested, please cite it for everyone, if you don't mind. I'm not opposed to having my mind changed...... :O•-:


----------



## cklspencer

> I keep reading about a law that applies to treestands being left in the woods and a supposed time limit for them to be there. As requested, please cite it for everyone, if you don't mind. I'm not opposed to having my mind changed......


+1


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Here is a link to the code:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... 19.1.33.13

Here is a link to an article that talks a bit about tree stands:

http://www.bowhuntersofutah.net/index.p ... ands-.html

As far as I know there is no limit. Once it is left it is considered abandoned. Take it in. Take it out. Leaving a treestand overnight is considered abandoned and is illegal. The screw in climbing spikes and bow hangers are also considered illegal as they damage a forest product.


----------



## cklspencer

Most of that is not talking about treestands and is being bent to fit treestands.


----------



## klbzdad

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Here is a link to the code:
> 
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... 19.1.33.13
> 
> This is merely a link to abandon personal property and there must be "intent" which in the case of most tree stands, there is not intent to just leave it and forget about it. Just fyi:
> 
> a·ban·don - verb (used with object)
> 1. to leave completely and finally; forsake utterly; desert: to abandon one's farm; to abandon a child; to abandon a sinking ship.
> 2. to give up; discontinue; withdraw from: to abandon a research project; to abandon hopes for a stage career.
> 3. to give up the control of: to abandon a city to an enemy army.
> 4. to yield (oneself) without restraint or moderation; give (oneself) over to natural impulses, usually without self-control: to abandon oneself to grief.
> 5. Law . to cast away, leave, or desert, as property or a child.
> 
> Here is a link to an article that talks a bit about tree stands:
> 
> http://www.bowhuntersofutah.net/index.p ... ands-.html
> 
> This is a great article!!!!! ABOUT PERMANENT STANDS!!!! I've read this one several times and he suggests ladders stands but again uses a general term to make his point: STRUCTURE
> 
> struc·ture?- noun, verb, struc·tured, struc·tur·ing.
> noun
> 1. mode of building, construction, or organization; arrangement of parts, elements, or constituents: a pyramidal structure.
> *2. something built or constructed, as a building, bridge, or dam.
> 3. a complex system considered from the point of view of the whole rather than of any single part: the structure of modern science.
> 4. anything composed of parts arranged together in some way; an organization.*
> 5. the relationship or organization of the component parts of a work of art or literature: the structure of a poem.
> 
> My favorite part of the article is when he points out that on BLM land, it is illegal to use native materials to construct a ground blind. Nice.
> 
> As far as I know there is no limit. Once it is left it is considered abandoned. Take it in. Take it out. Leaving a treestand overnight is considered abandoned and is illegal. The screw in climbing spikes and bow hangers are also considered illegal as they damage a forest product.


I would like to see one citation that back up the statement, "once it is left it is considered abandoned." Again, its not illegal by definition alone. An eyesore to FS and people who don't use them, you bet and I could understand that but its not illegal until you have the "INTENT" to abandon it. Intent in legal terms is "Mens Rea"....here are the four elements of a crime: Actus Reus (Guilty Action), Mens Rea (Guilty Mind), Concurrence, Harmful Result and Causation. These four elements MUST be met in order for law enforcement of any kind to issue a citation that will stand in any court. Ethically, they should never be left longer than your INTENT to use them because THAT is abandonment.

Can we move on from this argument now or should I dissect the act of taking a treestand off a tree on public land as being a true crime?


----------



## richardjb

PERFECT!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Listen.........you asked me to post the law. I did. I am not going to look up case studies. Call the BLM yourself or the Forest Service. If they choose to remove a temporary treestand that is even left overnight it is well within their legal right to do so and yes they can impose a fine for you leaving it overnight. It is then YOUR responsibility to fight it in court.

I have stated what my opinions are on how long I think they should be allowed. I didn't write the law and it is not my job to defend it. I also have my own dictionary and I know how to read. You interpret things the way you see fit and I will do the same.

I have never once defended anybody for stealing so don't imply that I am okay with it. Capiche?


----------



## Squigie

Thanks, Muleskinner

So... the only applicable reg, so far, is:


> *§ 261.10 Occupancy and use.*
> The following are prohibited:
> .....
> (e) Abandoning any personal property.
> .....


That leaves a helluva lot to interpretation, no matter which side of the argument you're on.
And, every Forest Service employee you ask will have a different take on the matter, as well.

Anybody have a citation that's more specific?


----------



## klbzdad

There isn't a citation more specific because of the definition of "abandoning" said property. You are right, Squigie, that FS folks will likely give a deferring take on the matter but ask an LE. However, the elements of a crime are specific and are NOT open for interpretation. LE's are taught this very thing at P.O.S.T. and doesn't fair well for them to write a citation for a questionable, or "grey area" offense or infraction. By the way, did you read the penalty section? Uhmmmm....



Mr Muleskinner said:


> You think you're better than the thieves but fact is they are not breaking the law. It's you.


I'd still like to see how the subsection applies to a treestand that one has not, by any definition, been abandoned. I've looked for everyone, there is no case law on it because it is difficult to prove that someone has abandoned personal property in regards to a treestand or trail camera when the intent is to use them to harvest game and not to leave them for someone else to deal with or to truly trash the woods. The use of screw in tree steps and bow holders are open to interpretation too but I favor the strap on ones even though I own several of each.

I do agree, see my posts, that if someone leaves one up in a tree for several years (a temporary one), they have shady ethics and are not respectful of our forests. And if someone is building a permanent one on public lands, they're a dink wad! Its less expensive and time consuming to now purchase one and carry it in and out with you.

Have a nice day!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Klbzdad...........I wasn't referring directly to you. I was referring to those that leave them up throughout the year. Leave does mean abandon correct?

Abandon as pertains to law:
Law . to cast away, *leave*, or desert, as property or a child.

Fire can force somebody to abandon their home and they have full intent on returning.

People have "abandoned" children in a car for less then an hour to shop and have been charged. Read up on a car seat/child abandonment laws. It does not necessarily mean that they had no intent on returning.

Take a chill pill........may I suggest cyanide?

I'll have one myself because I'm done......... o-||


----------



## klbzdad

When you abandon your home for the sake of safety due to a fire, you are, by definition, leaving completely and finally OR you are giving up control of the home to the fire. In other words, you've resigned yourself that you will no longer have that home. 

By that standard, if someone hangs a tree stand with the assumption that they will not have that tree stand to use anymore after they leave it where they put it....then you're 100% correct because they've abandoned it. Yes? :O•-: 

I will now take my cyanide of choice and move on too. I still value your opinions by the way.....although it may seem like I'm being an anal retentive puke.

T-minus 3.5 and counting <<--O/


----------



## Squigie

I'll have to give some more thought to the subject next time I'm a few miles deep, and run across trail cams or tree stands.

But, I'm very likely to conclude they are:
A) from July through November, off-limits and,
B) in December, questionable and,
C) from January through May, free tree stands(!!); and,
D) trail cameras are questionable, regardless of time frame,
D.1) unless clearly left unchecked for _several_ months.

Basic concept I'll suggest to my buddies during the Elk hunt:
If you leave it over the winter, and especially through the spring... it's free game (unless registered on a permit).

Several of them place their stands in July, so the conversation should be ...interesting.


----------



## ktowncamo

PBH said:


> ktowncamo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope my stand is still there that I left last year after the snow got too deep to retrieve it.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what bugs me with all of this. It's the "I'll retrieve it next time" mentality. Then it snows. Then you have to wait 'til spring. Then you get busy, and it turns into summer, and then fall is here again. Then you decide to hunt a different area / unit. So, your treestand just became litter.
> 
> Pack it in --> Pack it out. No exceptions.
Click to expand...

It's actually a situation like carbon credits - offsetting litter in one place for litter removal in another. See, I took the sheep herders salt bags, sardine and beer cans out of the woods which they left behind under said treestand and I left the treestand behind but without intent (for the record) to abandon it.

Either way, my contribution to clearing up the floor of the woods far offsets the lone treestand "littler" which is near the ceiling of said forest. As I see it there's a net positive and when I retrieve the stand in a few weeks at the end of this season, I'm sure the sheep herders will have left me more trash to haul out after which I will look forward to receiving a nice shiny medal or ribbon to pin on my camo jacket. 8)


----------



## PBH

justify it however you like. You're still leaving YOUR things in the woods. I appreciate that you pack others things out. Just think, if nobody left their garbage in the woods then none of us would have to pack others garbage out!


Pack it in --> Pack it out.


----------



## klbzdad

PBH said:


> justify it however you like. You're still leaving YOUR things in the woods. I appreciate that you pack others things out. Just think, if nobody left their garbage in the woods then none of us would have to pack others garbage out!
> 
> Pack it in --> Pack it out.


+1 You are correct. Found a turd tank dump in our camp yesterday that was covered up but they didn't use rv butt wipe....classy. Time to hunt boys and girls!!!!!!


----------



## walkalot

i personally don't have an issue with you putting a stand up early and leaving it there being that there is tons of country out west to hunt....midwest small public land plots, an entirely different story.

however, with that being said if my memory serves me right that is not legal.....so you're setting yourself up for failure, because some people will steal it based on that principal alone....regardless of whether they will hunt the spot or want the stand.

sorry for your loss, still sucks


----------



## wyoming2utah

Leave your treestands....I don't care. Just don't expect to have "your spot" reserved for only you. I just might camp my butt under "your tree" and hunt there too!


----------



## Yahtahay

TEX-O-BOB said:


> wapiti67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a thought...don't use a treestand...we're in the west for hecks sake..
> 
> 
> 
> Why use a tree stand? Because they WORK! Two truck loads of deer and 17 elk later and I'm sold on em!  Why would anyone hunt any other way?
Click to expand...

* AMEN! *

Personally I don't give a two [email protected]#$! what any of you think. I put my stand up mid-July and I take it down when my hunt is done, now whether you all think that is right or wrong, to each his own. If it makes you feel better to steal something that is not yours, and you find it, take it! If your willing to hike in 3-5 miles your most likely an esteemed hunter and appreciate the work and effort made to put it in back in that far (let alone the hikes back in and out of it everyday without my white whooly butt sitting on a horses back to take me in). If some bone-headed low life steals it, yeah I'll be pissed off but oh well, my bad for leaving it but for goodness sake, I'll NEVER, I repeat NEVER, steal somebody elses stand.

Now, for the stands that have been constructed and LEFT for years I think is utter bullcrap, not only are they an eye sore they are a major hazard for any fool that decides to use one that has endured rain, snow, etc for years on end.

***RANT OVER***


----------



## Huntoholic

I know some were asking about where the regulation was written about leaving personal property on public land. I ran across this written reg. while out and about. The Reg. is "CFR 8365.1-6 Supplementary rules". It is basically a catch all for the governing body. 
[attachment=0:3si2cc0k]sign.JPG[/attachment:3si2cc0k]


----------



## klbzdad

I've searched for info on that CFR and can find NOTHING. The 8 your refer to is actually a Sub Section of the actual title and not part of the chapter. I'd like to know what title is and for what government entity this was posted for so I can find it, please


----------



## HunterDavid

klbzdad said:


> I've searched for info on that CFR and can find NOTHING. The 8 your refer to is actually a Sub Section of the actual title and not part of the chapter. I'd like to know what title is and for what government entity this was posted for so I can find it, please


 A quick search on google of what the paper says under "unattended personal property" gave me a result from the BLM. Here is the link:
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/ ... andout.pdf

HunterDavid


----------



## wyoming2utah

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Why use a tree stand? Because they WORK! Two truck loads of deer and 17 elk later and I'm sold on em!  Why would anyone hunt any other way?


You might be right in saying that tree stands work better than the traditional western style of spot and stalk hunting, but you can't convince that it is more entertaining, fun, or rewarding. I am sorry but sitting in a tree stand or blind is flat-out boring unless you are constantly having animals come in...! You might kill more deer and elk than me, but I have more fun...!


----------



## 2full

W2U.

+1

I never could sit in a stand for more than about 20 mins. I'm too hyper I guess.
I respect those who can, but I just cannot do it. Even had a guy give me one and try to convert me a few years back. I like getting around and seeing the country.


----------



## Squigie

klbzdad said:


> I've searched for info on that CFR and can find NOTHING. The 8 your refer to is actually a Sub Section of the actual title and not part of the chapter. I'd like to know what title is and for what government entity this was posted for so I can find it, please


This is applicable, to a point:
§ 8365.1-5 Property and resources.


> § 8365.1-5 Property and resources.
> (a) On all public lands, unless otherwise authorized, no person shall;
> (1) Willfully deface, disturb, remove or destroy any personal property, or structures, or any scientific, cultural, archaeological or historic resource, natural object or area;


But, the "Personal Property" rules were simply created under the 'catch-all' / 'we do what we want' regulation:
§ 8365.1-6 Supplementary rules.


> § 8365.1-6 Supplementary rules.
> The State Director may establish such supplementary rules as he/she deems necessary. These rules may provide for the protection of persons, property, and public lands and resources. No person shall violate such supplementary rules.
> (a) The rules shall be available for inspection in each local office having jurisdiction over the lands, sites or facilities affected;
> (b) The rules shall be posted near and/or within the lands, sites or facilities affected;
> (c) The rules shall be published in the Federal Register; and
> (d) The rules shall be published in a newspaper of general circulation in the affected vicinity, or be made available to the public by such other means as deemed most appropriate by the authorized officer.


However, I can't find a rule resembling the text in the photo, posted anywhere on the BLM website. (Neither State, nor Regional levels.)


----------



## klbzdad

Thanks a bunch Squigie. I was wrong, it is an 8 instead of § (subsection). This is the same as the 365 title that other agencies use to make emergency orders. I hold that "personal property" was intended to mean property that could be used to homestead public land or remove public resources without permission. I could be wrong on that too, but there is still nothing specific to something like a treestand or trail camera (unless you are a licensed guide). Good work! Thanks again!


----------



## Huntoholic

klbzdad said:


> I've searched for info on that CFR and can find NOTHING. The 8 your refer to is actually a Sub Section of the actual title and not part of the chapter. I'd like to know what title is and for what government entity this was posted for so I can find it, please


The Sign and Billboard was out near Faust on BLM land. SubSection 43 CFR 8365 is titled "Rules of Conduct" and is listed under SubChapter H, "Recreation Programs". SubSection 1-6 of 43 CFR 8365 allows the governing director to define conditions to his specific area. The director of this area has defined the duration that "Unattended Property" can be left.


----------



## klbzdad

Perfect! Thanks man...I'm going to research this. Usually those codes are reserved for making emergency orders so I'd like to know.


----------



## HunterDavid

klbzdad:

If you look at the link I already provided in my post above, you will find your answer. To paraphrase: 
"(CFR 8365.1-2) A person or persons may not keep unattended personal property on public lands for a period of more than 48 hours without written permission from an authorized officer, with the exception that vehicles may be parked in designated parking areas for up to 14 consecutive days (57 FR, Dec 14, 1992). " 
This is the EXACT language from the flyer posted in the initial post. The reference at the bottom, "57 FR, Dec 14, 1992" is referring to the Federal Register of the US Department of the Interior dated Dec. 14, 1992. That is where this rule or whatever comes from. The link to that issue of the FR is here: http://www.fws.gov/ecos/ajax/docs/feder ... fr2184.pdf . Enjoy!

HunterDavid


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## klbzdad

Thanks again man! I actually have a call in to the director to get from the "horses" mouth what they are considering "personal property". When they call me back, I'm not going to suggest any specific answers at first but will mention those discussed in this thread. I hope it will be helpful to climb the ladder (of sorts and pun not intended) to get a more precise definition. Excellent work guys!


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## bowgy

> "(CFR 8365.1-2) A person or persons may not keep unattended personal property on public lands for a period of more than 48 hours without written permission from an authorized officer, with the exception that vehicles may be parked in designated parking areas for up to 14 consecutive days (57 FR, Dec 14, 1992). "


Does this indicate that they would have to observe the tree stand for a 48 hour period to make sure someone did not go and sit in it at least once every 48 hours before they could determine it was unattended for that long. So if you are not willing to do that then I would suggest you leave it alone if it is not yours. "Just sayin"


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## wyoming2utah

Different subject, same topic: what about trail cams? Haven't I heard of people having issues with the forest circus taking trail cams on the mountain? It seems that I remember a thread/threads that talked about this...


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