# Upcoming RACs - Changes to Expo Program



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

There are several changes to the expo permit program being proposed at the upcoming RAC meetings. They appear positive, as far as I can tell. Here's the packet if you want a closer look:

https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2018-05_rac_packet.pdf

One change I find interesting is that the division intends to limit someone to a maximum of 1 expo permit per year. If they draw multiple permits, they have to choose which one they want to keep. I wonder if that was in response to complaints.

I'm a fan of that recommendation, partially because I think we may as well spread the benefits of that draw around, and partly because I'm suspicious of their drawing algorithm and see this as a way to make it a little more fair.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Thanks for posting this up

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Clarq said:


> There are several changes to the expo permit program being proposed at the upcoming RAC meetings. They appear positive, as far as I can tell. Here's the packet if you want a closer look:
> 
> https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2018-05_rac_packet.pdf
> 
> ...


Could people get more than one expo permit before? I know people have had to choose but was that same-species only?

I don't trust their draw process. Funny that RMEF actually was docked points on their proposal when they recommended the SAME company that does the standard draw.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Could people get more than one expo permit before? I know people have had to choose but was that same-species only?
> 
> I don't trust their draw process. Funny that RMEF actually was docked points on their proposal when they recommended the SAME company that does the standard draw.


In the past and as it currently stands, you could (and people have) draw multiple expo tags--provided that the annual species bag limit in the state was not exceeded (1 buck, 1 bull, etc...). It seems like more often than not there is a lucky individual who draws 2 or more tags at the Expo each year.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Holy Turkey changes!

I love this part on conservation permits:

_"We want to clarify that conservation permits only be initially distributed through a competitive auction to the high bidder."_

Make sure Mr. Money Bags gets first dubs haha. Does that wording get rid of the Expo tags? Of the top of my mind I can't recall if they are the same type of tag.

The "interest" part is something I never thought about. The 30+M that SFW and MDF have received in tag revenue probably gains some hefty interest.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

johnnycake said:


> In the past and as it currently stands, you could (and people have) draw multiple expo tags--provided that the annual species bag limit in the state was not exceeded (1 buck, 1 bull, etc...). It seems like more often than not there is a lucky individual who draws 2 or more tags at the Expo each year.


Thanks. I knew some had to select but never thought about species.

To that point, I like this change.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> In the past and as it currently stands, you could (and people have) draw multiple expo tags--provided that the annual species bag limit in the state was not exceeded (1 buck, 1 bull, etc...). It seems like more often than not there is a lucky individual who draws 2 or more tags at the Expo each year.


That was because the law said you can only harvest one antlered animal of a species... BUT, they just changed that law last dec just for the mentoree's so the door is open now to kill multiple antlered animals (if you get the tags).

-DallanC


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Mineral Mountains for desert bighorns? Interesting idea for sure...but the domestic sheep/goat conflict potential seems really high IMO. It'll be interesting to see how that one plays out.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

They need to have the drawing "live" at the Expo on the final day of the Expo IMO. That way there isn't any "Monkey Business" going on.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

johnnycake said:


> In the past and as it currently stands, you could (and people have) draw multiple expo tags--provided that the annual species bag limit in the state was not exceeded (1 buck, 1 bull, etc...). It seems like more often than not there is a lucky individual who draws 2 or more tags at the Expo each year.


Here's the list!

2007- Friel, Robert - Buck Deer - Arch - Pauns
- Bull Elk - AW - Monroe

- Grant, Charles - Buck Deer - AW - Diamond Mtn
- Pronghorn - AW - Plateau

- Higby, Kevin - Pronghorn - Arch - Plateau
- Turkey - Utah County North

- Peters, Lyle - Cougar - LE - Beaver
- Turkey - LaSal

-Sponaugle, Kenneth - Bull Elk - AW - Boulder/Kaiparowitz
- Turkey - Pahvant

2008 - Bloom, Dave - Bull Elk - Arch - Fishlake/Thousand Lk
- Turkey - Cent Region

- Heninger, Kevin - Buck Deer - Muzz - Vernon
- Bull Elk - AW - San Juan

- Seeholzer, Jeff - Pronghorn - AW - Cache/N Rich
- Turkey - San Juan

2009 - Berman, Lance - Bull Elk - Muzz - Manti
- Pronghorn - AW - Cache/N Rich

- Jackson, Daniel - Buck Deer - AW - Henry Mtns
- Bull Elk - AW - Pahvant

- Kinney, Sue - Bull Elk - AW - Pahvant
- Turkey - Cache

- Tabor, Melvin - Bear - Spring - San Juan
- Pronghorn - AW - Plateau

- Toney, Kurt - Buck Deer - Arch - Book Cliffs
- RM Goat - OIL - N Slope/S Slope/High Unitas East

2010 - DeRoest, Joseph - Buck Deer - AW - Pauns
- Turkey - SE Region

2011 - Snyder, Aubree - Bull Elk - Arch - Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
- Turkey - SE Region

2012 - Eakle, Adam - Pronghorn - AW - Cache/N Rich
- Turkey - North Region

- Knudsen, Gordon - Bull Elk - Arch - Wasatch Mtns
- Turkey - NE Region

- Marshall, Paul - Buck Deer - AW - Pauns
- Turkey - Cent Region

- Rhodes, Shelby - Bull Elk - AW - Monroe
- Turkey - North Region

2013 - Ekker, Cody - Buck Deer - AW - Book Cliffs
- Bull Elk - AW - Fishlake/Thousand Lk

- Julian, Randy - Pronghorn - AW - Cache/N Rich
- Turkey - NE Region

2014 - Nordhoff, Matthew - Pronghorn - Muzz - Plateau
- Bull Elk - Muzz - Wasatch Mtns

2015 - Bruscato, Joe - Bull Elk - AW - Wasatch Mtns
- Pronghorn - Muzz - Plateau

- Scovel, Douglas - Buck Deer - Arch - Pauns
- Bull Elk - Muzz - Fishlake/Thousand Lk

2016 - Fransen, Mark - Buck Deer - Arch - Book Cliffs
- Bull Elk - AW - Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S

2017 - Latham, Heidee - Bull Elk - AW - SW Desert
- Pronghorn - AW - Parker Mtn
- Cougar - Split - Fishlake

- Paulson, Christopher - Bull Elk - AW - Manti
- Pronghorn - Muzz - Parker Mtn

2018 - Carr, Koliss - Bull Elk - AW - Wasatch Mtns
- Pronghorn - AW - SW Desert

- Dibble, Dale - Buck Deer (mgt) - AW - Pauns
- Turkey - North Region

- Simpson, Sky - Bull Elk - AW - SW Desert
- Bear - Spring - Manti

While this list is somewhat impressive, it pales to the list of winners in multiple years! But I guess there isn't gonna be an Expo tag waiting period to prevent that from happening.

Edited: Oops! I reviewed my list again and I missed a few which I corrected above: 2007 - Higby, Kevin, 2008 - Heninger, Kevin, 2009 - Jackson, Daniel.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I stand corrected, (thanks elkfromabove). Instead of "more often than not" somebody ends up pulling multiple tags...it is EVERY SINGLE YEAR.


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## RG the OG (Oct 31, 2016)

Adam Eakle and Hooked On Utah are in on this too!! I can’t believe they think they can game the system like that! They don’t think anyone’s going to catch on when they draw two tags in a year? Absolutely Ridiculous


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I'd be interested in seeing the multiple winner list


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I don’t mind the fact that people draw multiple tags each year despite the extremely rare odds. 

I don’t think that we should, as a society, take away from someone’s great luck.

I say this only if the algorithm and process is totally transparent and can be proven to be totally random...and lucky for the few. If the draw remains unsupervised and behind closed doors then we may have to apply some limitations.


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## hawkeye (Feb 18, 2008)

There are also a series of proposed changes to the Expo Permit Rule R657-55. Some of those changes are intended to allow the DWR to utilize the formal RFP process that it implemented in late 2015 after RMEF submitted its original proposal for the next Expo contract. You will notice that the changes to R657-55-4 (page 69/133 of packet) essentially authorize the DWR to do what it already did three years ago.

If any of you attend your local RAC meetings you might ask the DWR why it did not amend this rule *BEFORE* it moved to the formal RFP process. Just like the public, the DWR is supposed to be bound by its own administrative rules. However, this is one case where it clearly ignored and violated its own rules to get the result it wanted. I am glad, however, that the DWR decided to come back three years later to amend their rules to authorize what they already did.

Better late than never!!!

-Hawkeye-


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

KineKilla said:


> I don't mind the fact that people draw multiple tags each year despite the extremely rare odds.
> 
> I don't think that we should, as a society, take away from someone's great luck.
> 
> I say this only if the algorithm and process is totally transparent and can be proven to be totally random...and lucky for the few. If the draw remains unsupervised and behind closed doors then we may have to apply some limitations.


Your middle statement can't be relevant until the second one is fixed. I think most of our opinions are based on them operating the same shady way they have for years.

It is some luck that every year, of thousands of applicants, their "buddies" draw - sometimes multiple tags.

When I looked up and realized that SFW and MDF make what they do off these tags, AND their group gets a number of them.... it all just leads me to think it's even more shady then I previously thought.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

hawkeye said:


> There are also a series of proposed changes to the Expo Permit Rule R657-55. Some of those changes are intended to allow the DWR to utilize the formal RFP process that it implemented in late 2015 after RMEF submitted its original proposal for the next Expo contract. You will notice that the changes to R657-55-4 (page 69/133 of packet) essentially authorize the DWR to do what it already did three years ago.
> 
> If any of you attend your local RAC meetings you might ask the DWR why it did not amend this rule *BEFORE* it moved to the formal RFP process. Just like the public, the DWR is supposed to be bound by its own administrative rules. However, this is one case where it clearly ignored and violated its own rules to get the result it wanted. I am glad, however, that the DWR decided to come back three years later to amend their rules to authorize what they already did.
> 
> ...


So, by making that change official, does that mean they are admitting their guilt? Nah!!!! They'd NEVER do that!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Your middle statement can't be relevant until the second one is fixed. I think most of our opinions are based on them operating the same shady way they have for years.
> 
> It is some luck that every year, of thousands of applicants, their "buddies" draw - sometimes multiple tags.
> 
> When I looked up and realized that SFW and MDF make what they do off these tags, AND their group gets a number of them.... it all just leads me to think it's even more shady then I previously thought.


Correct.

I was just saying that we should address the issue of transparency prior to implementing rules that automatically penalize someone for being lucky. Personally, I have terrible luck but wouldn't hold that against someone else.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> When I looked up and realized that SFW and MDF make what they do off these tags, AND their group gets a number of them.... it all just leads me to think it's even more shady then I previously thought.


Oh you have no idea of the backroom deals going down out of sight. I talked with a certain relative of the guys running the thing and he got to work the backroom deals, said there are multiple $10,000,000 deals going down for hunts for the uber rich each year.

Just say'n, how much do you think it cost when George W Bush flew in a few years ago to hunt utah elk?

-DallanC


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

weaversamuel76 said:


> I'd be interested in seeing the multiple winner list


Here ya go! Please be patient, it may take a while. (Not all details of the hunts are included.)

Abplanalp, Lynn - 2008 - TU - LaSal
-------------------- 2013 - BD - AW-Book Cliffs
Acey, Marvin - 2009 - PR - AW-San Rafael
---------------- 2018 - BR - Spring-LaSal
Adams, Nathan - 2007 - BE - AW-N Slope
------------------- 2009 - BD - AW-Vernon
Albrecht, Carl - 2010 - DBH - OIL-San Rafael S
----------------- 2013 - TU - S Reg
Allan, Scott - 2007 - TU - C Reg
--------------- 2014 - BE - Arch-Wasatch Mtns
Allen, Kevin - 2008 - BM - OIL-Cache
--------------- 2014 - BE - Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Allred, L Riley - 2009 - PR - AW-N Slope
----------------- 2012 - BD - AW-Book Cliffs
Alver, Sheldon - 2007 - BE - AW-Wasatch Mtns
------------------ 2008 - BD - AW-Book Cliffs
Anderson, Cory - 2010 - BD - AW-Diamond Mtn
------------------- 2014 - BE - Arch-Boulder
------------------- 2017 - BD - Muzz-Book Cliffs
Arrant, James - 2008 - BE - AW-Wasatch Mtns
----------------- 2009 - BD - AW-Diamond Mtn
Arrant, Michael - 2008 - Muzz-Manti
------------------ 2010 - AW-San Juan
Bailey, Kim - 2008 - TU - Pahvant
-------------- 2013 - BE - Arch-Wasatch Mtns
Bair, John - 2008 - PR - AW-Plateau
------------- 2010 - RMBH - OIL-Book Cliffs
Baker, Jason - 2010 - BE - AW - Boulder
---------------- 2012 - PR - Arch-Plateau
---------------- 2016 - TU - C Reg
Banks, Tye - 2011 - TU - NE Reg
-------------- 2015 - BE - Arch
Barnett, Ted - 2012 - BE - AW-Wasatch Mtns
---------------- 2018 - PR - AW-Parker Mtn
Bass, Kenneth - 2007 - BE - AW-Manti
------------------ 2008 - TU - Nebo
Baugh, Casey - 2012 - BR - Spring-Book Cliffs
----------------- 2013 - BD - Muzz-Book Cliffs
Berman, Lance - 2009 - BE - Muzz-Manti
------------------ 2009 - PR - AW-Cache/N Rich
------------------ 2016 - BE - AW - Fishlake
Betts, Matthew - 2007 - TU - Beaver
------------------ 2011 - TU - SE Reg
Bigelow, Keith - 2007 - BD - Muzz - Book Cliffs
------------------ 2008 - TU - S Reg
------------------ 2013 - BD - AW-Vernon
Billings, Bayden - 2011 - BE - Arch-Mt Dutton
------------------- 2014 - BE - Arch-Manti
Birch, Randy - 2017 - TU - C Reg
---------------- 2018 - CO - Split-Nebo
Birth, Michael - 2012 - TU - S Reg
----------------- 2014 - PR - AW-Pine Valley

Edited: Sorry, but so far, this is only the first 2 of 18 pages. I can't finish the list in one sitting, so I'll figure out a way to do it faster.


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## hawkeye (Feb 18, 2008)

*CENTRAL RAC REPORT:*

I attended to the Central RAC Meeting last night. I had to wait for a couple of hours to get to Item No. 10 on the Agenda, the Proposed Rule Amendments to the Wildlife Expo Permits Rule R657-55. The DWR is proposing a major overhaul to the Expo Permits Rule. See https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2018-05_rac_packet.pdf

After listening to the DWR's presentation, I focused my comments on the following two points. There were plently of other points to raise but I only had three minutes:

First, if the first stated purpose for the Expo Permits is for "generating revenue to fund wildlife conservation activities in Utah" (R657-55-1(2)), then why are the groups only required by rule to spend $1.50 of each $5.00 application fee to fund actual conservation projects? See (R657-55-10(2) and (3). I believe this number is too low. The groups should not be allowed to pocket 70% of the application fee revenues as "administrative expenses," especially when you consider the fact that the application fees are only one source of revenue for these groups. They also make money off of admissions, booth rentals, concessions, etc. To be fair, Troy Justensen stated that SFW is voluntarily spending much more than the required 30% on conservation projects. My response to that is the state and the DWR should require more than 30% be spent on actual conservation in the rule. They should not leave it up to the discretion of the groups. In addition, the DWR only audits the expenditures for the 30% and the groups are only required to report on the 30%. Therefore, even if the groups are voluntarily spending more than the required 30% on actual conservation projects there is no mandatory reporting on those expenditures. Once again, that is left to the discretion of the groups. In summary, the DWR should require that something more then 30% of the application fee revenues are earmarked for actual conservation projects and accounted for to the public. We can and should do better!

Second, the DWR is amending R657-55-4 to allow them to utilize a formal RFP process through the Division of Purchasing to award future Expo Permit Contracts. You may recall that this is the same process that the DWR utilized in late 2015 to award the last contract to SFW/MDF. So the current rule amendment essentially authorizes the DWR to do what it already did three years ago. :shock: In 2015, the DWR ignored the process spelled out in its own administrative rules and moved to a RFP process after it received the initial Expo tag proposal from RMEF. However, the DWR's administriave rules are "enforceable and have the effect of law." Utah Code 63G-3-202. This means that the DWR's adminstrative rules are not only binding upon the public but they also bind the DWR. The DWR should not be allowed to pick and choose which rules it wants to follow and which rules it wants to ignore. If the DWR wanted to move to a formal RFP process in 2015 then it should have gone through the public process to amend its own rules, which would have required public notice, a redlined version of proposed amendments, public input, hearings, etc. The DWR's current effort to modify its rule after-the-fact to authorize a formal RFP process is three years too late. I guess some might say better late than never!

Those are the points that I focused on during the comment period. Despite my passionate comments;-) , the proposal passed at the Central RAC 7-1. To those of you who may be attending other RACs or the WB meeting, you may want to comment on these points. We are not going to stop the amendment or change what the DWR is doing with respect to the Expo Permits but I believe that it is important for the DWR to be held accountable and to know that the public is watching.

-Hawkeye-


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

Looking at that list, isnt it funny that everyone that has drawn dbl permits has the last name in the A or B alphabet?


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Yes that is funny if you were to do a chi-square test you would find that there is major error and would have the reject the process as being correct.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'd like to see how much those folks spend to draw those tags. 

It could be just a few bucks and then again it might be more than any of the rest of us could afford.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

robiland said:


> Looking at that list, isnt it funny that everyone that has drawn dbl permits has the last name in the A or B alphabet?


Oops! I'm so sorry that I left you all with that impression, but the duplicate tag list is so long (492 tags issued to 222 people) that it's impossible for me to finish it in one sitting at the computer. What I posted is only the first 2 pages of a total of 18 and I should have told you that. Sorry for the oversight. I'll edit the other post.

And I'll have to figure out a way to post it differently. I had 12 printed yearly lists that are listed by hunts, not by applicants and I had to sort out 2,400 names/hunts in order to find the duplicates. As most of you know, I don't have the computer skills of even a 6 year old, so I'll get my son-in-law to help me. Please stay tuned.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Critter said:


> I'd like to see how much those folks spend to draw those tags.
> 
> It could be just a few bucks and then again it might be more than any of the rest of us could afford.


They aren't the auction tags these are tags everyone can draw. Are you asking if they apply for all tags in the drawing or just " luck out" and draw the only few they apply for?

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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I know that these are not the auction tags, but just the chance drawings. 

Since I don't play the game are they only allowed one ticket per animal or can they buy as many tickets as they can afford. 


There is also just the possibility that they are just lucky. I know a few hunters that are just lucky. Even in the DOW drawings they draw tags with zero points. Not to mention the hunters that I know that have drawn every OIL tag that is available in the state of Utah.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Critter said:


> I know that these are not the auction tags, but just the chance drawings.
> 
> Since I don't play the game are they only allowed one ticket per animal or can they buy as many tickets as they can afford.
> 
> There is also just the possibility that they are just lucky. I know a few hunters that are just lucky. Even in the DOW drawings they draw tags with zero points. Not to mention the hunters that I know that have drawn every OIL tag that is available in the state of Utah.


You can only buy one ticket for each tag offered in the expo. Lucky is an understatment in drawing multiple tags using statistical data but who knows how 2 guys in a basement run the drawing

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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

2007-2018 Expo Tag Repeat Winners (Alphabetically)

Abplanalp, Lynn---------2008---TU---LaSal
-------------------------- 2011---BD---AW-Book Cliffs
Acey, Marvin-------------2009---PR---AW-San Rafael
---------------------------2018---BR---Spring-no bait-LaSal
Adams, Nathan----------2007---BE---AW-N Slope/3 Corners
---------------------------2009---BD---AW-Vernon
Albrecht, Carl------------2010---DBH---OIL-San Rafael S
---------------------------2013---TU---S Reg
Allan, Scott--------------2007---TU---late-C Reg West
---------------------------2014---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
Allen, Kevin--------------2008---BM---OIL-Cache
---------------------------2014---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Allred, L Riley------------2009---PR---AW-N Slope/W Daggett/3 Corners
----------------------------2012---BD---AW-Book Cliffs
Alver, Sheldon------------2007---BE---AW-late-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------2008---BD---AW-Book Cliffs
Anderson, Cory-----------2010---BD---AW-Diamond Mtn
----------------------------2014---BE---Arch-Boulder/Kaip
----------------------------2017---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Arrant, James------------2008---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------2009---BD---AW-Diamond Mtn
Arrant, Michael-----------2008---BE---Muzz-Manti
----------------------------2010---BE---AW-early-San Juan
Bailey, Kim----------------2008---TU---Pahvant
-----------------------------2013---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
Bair, John------------------2008---PR---AW-Plateau
-----------------------------2010---RMBH---OIL-Book Cliffs S/Rattlesnake
Baker, Jason---------------2010---BE---AW-early-Boulder/Kaip
-----------------------------2012---PR---Arch-Plateau
-----------------------------2016---TU---C- Reg
Banks, Tye-----------------2011---TU---NE Reg
-----------------------------2015---BE---Arch-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
Barnett, Ted---------------2012---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
-----------------------------2018---PR---AW-Parker Mtn
Bass, Kenneth-------------2007---BE---AW-early-Manti
-----------------------------2008---TU---Nebo
Baugh, Casey--------------2012---BR---Spring-Book Cliffs
-----------------------------2013---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Berman, Lance-------------2009---BE---Muzz-Manti
------------------------------2009---PR---AW-Cache/N Rich
------------------------------2016---BE---AW-late-Fishlake/Thous Lk
Betts, Matthew-------------2007---TU---Beaver
------------------------------2011---TU---SE Reg
Bigelow, Keith--------------2007---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
------------------------------2008---TU---S Reg
------------------------------2013---BD---AW-Vernon
Billings, Brayden-----------2011---BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
------------------------------2014---BE---Arch-Manti
Birch, Randy----------------2017---TU---C Reg
------------------------------2018---CO---Split (LE/Harv Obj)-Nebo
Birth, Michael---------------2012---TU---S Reg
------------------------------2014---PR---AW-Pine Valley
Bitton, Darin----------------2016---PR---AW-Cache/Morgan/S Rich/Ogden
------------------------------2018---PR---AW-Cache/Morgan/S Rich/Ogden
Blakeway, Curt-------------2009---BI---OIL-hunter’s choice-early-Henry Mtns
------------------------------2013---CO---LE-NW Manti
Bloom, Dave----------------2008---BE---Arch-Fishlake/Thousand Lk
------------------------------2008---TU---C Reg
------------------------------2010---BE---Arch-Boulder/Kaip
Bowden, Brock--------------2011---BE---Arch-Pahvant
-------------------------------2014---BE---Arch-San Juan
Brenneman, Tyler-----------2011---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
-------------------------------2018---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Brewer, Jeffrey--------------2014---PR---AW-Plateau
-------------------------------2018---BR---Spring-no bait-San Juan
Brown, Clint-----------------2015---TU---N Reg
-------------------------------2016---TU---N Reg
Brown, Mark-----------------2010---PR---Arch-Plateau
-------------------------------2013---PR---Arch-Plateau
Bruscato, Joe----------------2009---BE---Arch-Manti
-------------------------------2015---BE---AW-late-Wasatch Mtns
-------------------------------2015---PR---Muzz-Plateau
Bryant, Charles Jr-----------2013---CO---LE-Plateau/Boulder
-------------------------------2014---BE---Muzz-Cache S
Burget, David----------------2014---PR---Arch-Plateau
-------------------------------2017---BD---AW-Vernon
Burget, Virgil----------------2008---BE---AW-early-Nebo
-------------------------------2012---BE---AW-early-Nebo
Bush, Brian------------------2010---TU---S Reg
-------------------------------2012---BI---OIL-early-hunter’s choice-Henry Mtns
Butler, Michael---------------2007---TU---Nebo
-------------------------------2008---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Butterfield, Kelton-----------2008---PR---Arch-Plateau
-------------------------------2010---BD---Arch-Vernon
-------------------------------2018---BD---AW-Vernon
Cahoon, Devan--------------2015---BR---Spring-Wasatch Mtns
-------------------------------2016---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Carlton, Todd----------------2013---TU---S Reg
-------------------------------2017---BD---AW-Book Cliffs S
Carpenter, Scott-------------2008---BE---AW-Diamond Mtn
-------------------------------2016---RMG---OIL-N Slope/S Slope/High Uintas W
Carr, Koliss------------------2018---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
-------------------------------2018---PR---AW-SW Desert
Clawson, Jared--------------2013---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
-------------------------------2018---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
Cole, John--------------------2011---TU---C Reg
-------------------------------2014---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
Collins, Steven---------------2015---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
--------------------------------2016---BE---AW-late-Wasatch Mtns
Conolly, Michael--------------2013---TU---N Reg
--------------------------------2017---BD---AW-Pauns
Cook, Zachary----------------2013---TU---N Reg
--------------------------------2014---PR---AW-Plateau
Crandall, Max-----------------2013---TU---NE Reg
--------------------------------2016---PR---AW-Parker Mtn
Curtis, John-------------------2011---PR---AW-Cache/N Rich
--------------------------------2014---BE---AW-early-Cache N
Dannell, Danny---------------2008---TU---San Juan
--------------------------------2009---CO---LE-Beaver
Davis, Larry-------------------2007---BD---AW-Book Cliffs
--------------------------------2015---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Degelbeck, Doug-------------2007---BE---Muzz-Manti
--------------------------------2008---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
--------------------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Cache/Meadowville
DeRoest, Joseph--------------2008---BR---San Juan
--------------------------------2009---BE---Arch-Manti
--------------------------------2010---BD---AW-Pauns
--------------------------------2010---TU---SE Reg
--------------------------------2011---BE---AW-early-Manti
Dias, Gabriel------------------2007---TU---Pine Valley
--------------------------------2008---TU---Beaver
Dibble, Dale-------------------2018---BD---AW-mgt-Pauns
---------------------------------2018---TU---N Reg
Diedrich, John-----------------2007---TU---San Juan
---------------------------------2008---BD---AW-Pauns
Dillree, Cade-------------------2009---PR---AW-Kaiparowitz
---------------------------------2015---TU---SE Reg
Dixon, Robert------------------2015---PR---AW-Plateau
---------------------------------2016---PR---AW-Cache/Morgan/S Rich/Ogden
Donaldson, Paul---------------2017---BD---AW-mgt-Henry Mtns
---------------------------------2018---BE---Muzz-Fishlake
Dunning, William--------------2011---BE---Muzz-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
---------------------------------2013---BE---AW-late-Manti
Eagar, Michael-----------------2010---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
---------------------------------2011---BD---AW-Pauns
Eakle, Adam-------------------2012---PR---AW-Cache/N Rich
---------------------------------2012---TU---N Reg
Ehrlich, Kurt-------------------2013---BE---Arch-Nebo
---------------------------------2014---BD---Arch-Pauns
Ekker, Cody--------------------2013---BD---AW-Book Cliffs
---------------------------------2013---BE---AW-early-Fishlake/Thous Lk
Eldredge, Corey---------------2015---BE---Arch-Manti
---------------------------------2017---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
Ellsworth, Jacob---------------2011---BE---Arch-Fishlake/Thous Lk
---------------------------------2014---PR---Arch-Plateau
---------------------------------2015---BE---AW-early-SW Desert
Engelby, Bruce----------------2011---CO---LE-Beaver
---------------------------------2013---BD---AW-Vernon
Evans, Shaun------------------2007---TU---Nebo
---------------------------------2016---BD---AW-Book Cliffs N
Ewell, Mark--------------------2012---TU---SE Reg
---------------------------------2014---BE---AW-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
Farrar, Heather----------------2016---BD---AW-Pauns
---------------------------------2018---BD---AW-Book Cliffs S
Farrar, William-----------------2008---TU---S Reg
---------------------------------2010---CO---LE-Beaver
---------------------------------2012---BE---Arch-Manti
Fenton, Ryan------------------2008---TU---S Reg
---------------------------------2009---TU---Pahvant
Flandro, Bryan-----------------2013---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
---------------------------------2016---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
Forester, Monty---------------2014---PR---AW-San Rafael N
---------------------------------2017---BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
Fransen, Mark-----------------2016---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
---------------------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
Fraughton, Chad--------------2014---BR---Spring-Nine Mile/Anthro/Range Crk
---------------------------------2016---TU---S Reg
Frew, Jacen--------------------2011---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
---------------------------------2016---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Friel, Robert-------------------2007---BD---Arch-Pauns
---------------------------------2007---BE---AW-early-Monroe
Gardiner, Ted------------------2009---BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
---------------------------------2010---BE---Arch-Panguitch Lk
Gasser, Steve------------------2007---PR---AW-Cache/N Rich
---------------------------------2008---BR---Nine Mile/Anthro/Range Crk
Gates, Travis-------------------2010---BE---Arch-Nebo
----------------------------------2017---BE---Arch-LaSal Mtns
Gill, Dean-----------------------2012---BE---AW-roadless-Book Cliffs/Little Crk
----------------------------------2015---BE---AW-early-Manti
Gillman, Trevor-----------------2007---TU---early-C Reg W
----------------------------------2008---TU---Pahvant
Grant, Charles------------------2007---BD---AW-Diamond Mtn
----------------------------------2007---PR---AW-Plateau
Griffith, Thad-------------------2016---BE---Arch-Manti
----------------------------------2018---BD---AW-Book Cliffs S
Gurney, Steve------------------2008---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2009-BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
Guymon, Jace------------------2014---TU---SE Reg
----------------------------------2017---PR---Muzz-Parker Mtn
----------------------------------2018---BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
Hadlock, Adam-----------------2016---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2017---BD---Muzz-Vernon
Hadlock, Bradley---------------2014---BR---Spring-Book Cliffs
----------------------------------2015---BI---OIL-hunter’s choice-Henry Mtns
Hale, Cody----------------------2009---BE---Arch Manti
----------------------------------2012---BE---Arch-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
Hall, Dustin---------------------2008---BI---OIL-hunter’s choice-Henry Mtns
----------------------------------2012---BR---Spring-LaSal Mtns/Dolores Tri
Hall, Michael--------------------2016---BE---AW-late-Manti
----------------------------------2017---BE---AW-early-LaSal Mtns
Hampton, LeRoy----------------2013---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
-----------------------------------2015---BE---AW-late-Manti
Hansen, Larry-------------------2010---BE---Muzz-Nebo
-----------------------------------2012---TU---SE Reg
Hansen, Monica-----------------2008---CO---LE-Cache
-----------------------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Cache S
Harder, Boyd-------------------2007---BD---AW-Elk Ridge
----------------------------------2015---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Hartley, Brian-------------------2012---BE---AW-late-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2014---RMG---OIL-late-Willard Pk
----------------------------------2016---PR---AW-SW Desert
Hawkins, Justin-----------------2015---BR---Spring-LaSal
----------------------------------2017---BE---AW-early-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk
Heninger, Kevin----------------2008---BD---Muzz-Vernon
----------------------------------2008---BE---AW-early-San Juan
Henline, Marty------------------2008---BE---AW-early-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2012---BD---Muzz-Pauns
Higley, Kevin-------------------2007---PR---Arch-Plateau
----------------------------------2007---TU---Utah County N
Holmes, Michael----------------2012---BD---AW-Vernon
----------------------------------2014---PR---AW-W Desert/Riverbed
----------------------------------2015---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
Hopp, Randy--------------------2012---BE---AW-late-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2014---BD---AW-Vernon
----------------------------------2017---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Hurdsman, Darrin--------------2007---TU---Pahvant
----------------------------------2008---TU---S Reg
----------------------------------2010---TU---NE Reg
Ingles, Larry--------------------2009---BE---AW-early-Fishlake/Thous Lk
----------------------------------2012---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2013---BE---AW-early-Cache S
----------------------------------2014---BD---AW-mgt-Henry Mtns
Jackson, Daniel-----------------2009---BD---AW-Henry Mtns
----------------------------------2009---BE---AW-late-Pahvant
Jackson, Robert----------------2012---BE---AW-early-Panguitch Lk
----------------------------------2017---BE---AW-late-SW Desert
Jacobson, Bryan----------------2014---BE---AW-Nebo
----------------------------------2015---BE---AW-late-Mt Dutton
Jarvis, Donald Jr----------------2014---BI---OIL-cow-early-Henry Mtns
----------------------------------2018---BE---AW-early-Manti
Jeffers, Scott-------------------2012---BE---AW-early-San Juan
----------------------------------2013---TU---SE Reg
Jensen, Dustin------------------2008---BE---AW-roadless-Book Cliffs/Little Crk
----------------------------------2013---BE---Arch-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
----------------------------------2014---BE---AW-early-Panguitch Lk
Jones, Brian--------------------2007---TU---Pahvant
----------------------------------2008---BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
Jones, David--------------------2011---BD---AW-Pauns
----------------------------------2016---BD---AW-Vernon
Jones, Stanford-----------------2010---PR---AW-W Desert/Riverbed
----------------------------------2016---BE---AW-late-Wasatch Mtns
Jorgensen, Ross----------------2010---BD---AW-Diamond Mtn
----------------------------------2011---BE---AW-early-Nebo
Judd, Dale----------------------2008---TU---S Reg
----------------------------------2009---TU---San Juan
Julian, Randy-------------------2007---TU---Pahvant
----------------------------------2009---TU---Zion
----------------------------------2010---TU---N Reg
----------------------------------2013---PR---AW-Cache/N Rich
----------------------------------2013---TU---NE Reg
Karren, Rhett-------------------2009---BE---AW-Diamond Mtn
----------------------------------2010---Dall Sheep---Arctic Red River Outfitters/Canada
Kennedy, Justin----------------2009---BD---Muzz-Pauns
----------------------------------2013---BD---AW-Pauns
Killpack, Nathan----------------2010---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2011---PR---AW-Mt Dutton/Pauns
King, Gregory-------------------2013---BR---Spring-Wasatch Mtns W
----------------------------------2018---BE---AW-early-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk
Kinney, Michael-----------------2009---TU---Beaver
----------------------------------2010---BD---AW-Vernon
----------------------------------2012---TU---N Reg
Kinney, Sue---------------------2009---BE---AW-late-Pahvant
----------------------------------2009---TU---Cache
----------------------------------2012---TU---C Reg
Knudsen, Gordon---------------2012---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2012---TU---NE Reg
Krahenbuhl, Steve--------------2015---PR---AW-SW Desert
----------------------------------2018---PR---Arch-Parker Mtn
Langlois, Kevin-----------------2013---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2014---BE---AW-Nebo
----------------------------------2017---BR---Fall-Nine Mile
Larsen, Rodney-----------------2015---PR---Arch-Cache/N Rich
----------------------------------2016---PR---Muzz-Parker Mtn
Larson, Damon-----------------2009---PR---AW-Mt Dutton/Pauns
----------------------------------2010---PR---AW-Mt Dutton/Pauns
----------------------------------2012---PR---AW-San Rafael N
----------------------------------2016---PR---Muzz-Parker Mtn
Latham, Heidee-----------------2017---BE---AW-early-SW Desert
----------------------------------2017---PR---AW-Parker Mtn
----------------------------------2017---CO---Split (LE/Harv Obj)-Fishlake
Leonard, Devin-----------------2010---RMG---OIL-Beaver
----------------------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Cache S
Lincoln, David------------------2012---PR---Muzz-Plateau
----------------------------------2015---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
Loughton, Dave----------------2010---BD---AW-Vernon
----------------------------------2017---BD---AW-N Slope/Summit
Lowe, Jed-----------------------2007---BD---AW-Henry Mtns
----------------------------------2009---BM---OIL-Ogden
Luft, John-----------------------2012---RMG---OIL-Beaver
----------------------------------2018---PR---AW-Cache/Morgan/S Rich/Ogden
Lund, Jesse---------------------2015---BE---Arch-Fishlake/Thous Lk
----------------------------------2018---BD---AW-Book Cliffs N
Lundberg, Jim------------------2012---DBH---OIL-San Rafael S
----------------------------------2018---PR---AW-SW Desert
Maag, Mark---------------------2007---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2012---BD---Arch-Pauns
Mahoney, Steven---------------2013---BE---Arch-SW Desert
----------------------------------2015---BD---Arch-Vernon
Manusakis, Christopher--------2008---BE---AW-early-Manti
----------------------------------2009---BE---Muzz-Nebo
----------------------------------2010---BE---Muzz-Manti
Marshall, Paul-------------------2012---BD---AW-Pauns
----------------------------------2012---TU---C Reg
Mason, Edward-----------------2011---BD---Arch-Pauns
----------------------------------2012---BD-Muzz-Book Cliffs
Maxwell, Rhett------------------2010---BE---Muzz-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
----------------------------------2016---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
----------------------------------2017---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
Maynard, Billy------------------2008---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2012---BE---AW-early-Manti
McNicol, Shane-----------------2013---TU---SE Reg
----------------------------------2014---BR---Spring-San Juan
McQuivey, Brian----------------2008---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2012---BE---AW-early-Nebo
Mecham, John------------------2007—BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2008---BR---San Juan
Memmott, Bradley-------------2010---BE---AW-late-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2013---BD---Arch-Pauns
Meyers, Marvin-----------------2007---BE---Arch-Manti
----------------------------------2013---RMBH---OIL-nonres-Nine Mile
Mickelson, Jeffery--------------2008---BE---AW-early-Beaver
----------------------------------2009---TU---Wasatch Mtns/Utah County N
Minaudo, John------------------2011---BE---AW-late-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
----------------------------------2014---RMBH---OIL-Newfoundland Mtns
Moody, Larry-------------------2008---BE---AW-early-Manti
----------------------------------2009---BE---AW-early-Beaver
Mower, Darick------------------2007---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2011---TU---NE Reg
----------------------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
Newman, William---------------2008---TU---Boulder Mtn
----------------------------------2009---BR---Spring-Nine Mile/Anthro/Range Crk
Nordhoff, Matthew-------------2009---CO---LE-Nebo/West Face
----------------------------------2014---PR---Muzz-Plateau
----------------------------------2014---BE---Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2017---BR---Spring-no bait-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk N
Nordhoff, Paul------------------2010---BE---Arch-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
----------------------------------2011---PR---AW-Plateau
Norris, Robert------------------2009---BD---AW-Oak Crk
----------------------------------2014---BD---AW---Vernon
Oberg, Wayne------------------2007---BR---LaSal Mtns/Dolores Tri
----------------------------------2016---BR---Spring-no bait-LaSal
Oki, Michael--------------------2010---BD---AW-Henry Mtns
----------------------------------2017---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
Oldham, Morlin-----------------2012---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2018---PR---AW-Parker Mtn
Olsen, Mitch--------------------2007---BE---AW-roadless-Book Cliffs/Little Crk
----------------------------------2016---PR---AW-San Rafael N
Palmer, Douglas Jr-------------2008---BM---OIL-W Daggett/3-Corners
----------------------------------2018---BR---Spring-no bait-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
Parker, Michael-----------------2016---CO---Split (LE/Harv Obj)-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2018—TU—N Reg
Paulson, Christopher-----------2017---BE---AW-early-Manti
----------------------------------2017---PR---Muzz-Parker Mtn
Peart, Colton--------------------2014---BE---AW-LaSal Mtns
----------------------------------2017---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Peterson, Pat-------------------2014---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
----------------------------------2018---BD---AW-Book Cliffs S
Pewtress, Rick------------------2010---BE---Arch-Fishlake/Thous Lk
----------------------------------2018---BE --Muzz-Wasatch Mtns
Philbrook, Jeffrey---------------2007---BE---AW-early-Fishlake/Thous Lk
----------------------------------2011---PR---AW-Pine Valley
Pitcher, Tom--------------------2010---CO---LE-Plateau/Boulder
----------------------------------2011---BR---Spring-San Juan
Plant, Brandon------------------2010---BE---AW-N Slope/3 Corners
----------------------------------2012---BE---AW-early-Fishlake/Thous Lk
----------------------------------2014---BE---AW-early-San Juan
Powell, Arnie--------------------2007---BE---Arch-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2008---TU---C Reg
----------------------------------2016---BD---AW-Vernon
Puffe, Greg---------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
----------------------------------2017---BE---Muzz-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
Purser, Dirk---------------------2011---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2016---BR---Spring-no bait-LaSal
Raddon, Ron--------------------2009---BE---Arch-Nebo
----------------------------------2010---TU---NE Reg
----------------------------------2015---BD---AW-mgt-Pauns
----------------------------------2017---TU---SE Reg
Raetz, Michael------------------2011---BE---AW-late-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2016---BE---AW-early-Manti
Rasmussen, Lonne-------------2013---BD---AW-Pauns
----------------------------------2017---CO---Split (LE/Harv Ob)-NE Manti
Redd, Javalan------------------2008---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2009---BE---AW-early-Nebo
Reid, Todd----------------------2009---CO---LE-Cache
----------------------------------2010---TU---C Reg
Rhodes, Shelby-----------------2010---TU---N Reg
----------------------------------2012---BE---AW-early-Monroe
----------------------------------2012---TU---N Reg
Riche, Derald-------------------2008---TU---Pahvant
----------------------------------2009---TU---Pine Valley
Roberts, Jay--------------------2010---BE---AW-late-Manti
----------------------------------2011---BE---AW-early-Monroe
Rogers, Danny------------------2007---BE---AW-early-Panguitch Lk
----------------------------------2008---TU---Beaver
----------------------------------2014---BE---AW-late-Manti
----------------------------------2016---BE---AW-late-SW Desert
Rollins, Richard-----------------2017---BI--OIL-nonres-hunter’s choice-late-Henry Mt
----------------------------------2018---BD---AW-Henry Mtns
Rudd, Gary----------------------2013---CO---LE-Mt Dutton
----------------------------------2014---TU---SE Reg
Salt, Michael--------------------2011---RMG---OIL-female-Willard Pk
----------------------------------2013---BE---Arch-Fishlake/Thous Lk
Scovel, Douglas----------------2015---BD---Arch-Pauns
----------------------------------2015---BE---Muzz-Fishlake/Thous Lk
Seeholzer, Jeff------------------2008---PR---AW-Cache/N Rich
----------------------------------2008---TU---San Juan
----------------------------------2009---TU---Cache
Simpson, Sky-------------------2018---BE---AW-early-SW Desert
----------------------------------2018---BR---Spring-no bait-Manti
Sims, William-------------------2010---TU---S Reg
----------------------------------2018---BM---OIL-Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns
Smith, Nevada------------------2015---BE---Arch-San Juan
----------------------------------2018---BE---AW-early-Boulder/Kaip
Snyder, Aubree-----------------2011---BE---Arch-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk S
----------------------------------2011---TU---SE Reg
Sorensen, Jason----------------2007---PR---Arch-Plateau
----------------------------------2008---BE---AW-early-Boulder/Kaip
----------------------------------2010---BD---Muzz-Vernon
Sponaugle, Kenneth------------2007---BE---AW-early-Boulder/Kaip
----------------------------------2007---TU---Pahvant
Stevens, Jonathan--------------2007---BE---AW-Diamod Mtn
----------------------------------2009---PR---AW---Plateau
Stubbs, Grant-------------------2013---TU---SE Reg
----------------------------------2016---PR---AW-Parker Mtn
Tabor, Melvin-------------------2009---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2009---BR---Spring-San Juan
Thain, Stuart--------------------2007---CO---LE-Book Cliffs/Bitter Crk
----------------------------------2008---TU---S Reg
Toney, Kurt---------------------2009---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
----------------------------------2009---RMG---OIL-N Slope/S Slope/High Uintas E
Trapnell, Brian------------------2007---TU---Beaver
----------------------------------2008---BE---AW-Diamond Mtn
Tucker, Jon---------------------2010---PR---AW-Pine Valley
----------------------------------2012---TU---NE Reg
Tuttle, Lynn---------------------2012---BE---AW-early-Manti
----------------------------------2017---BE---Arch-Manti
Ufford, Ronald------------------2007---TU---San Juan
----------------------------------2008---BE---AW-late-Manti
----------------------------------2010---BR---Spring-Nine Mile/Anthro/Range Crk
Vanhulle, Justin-----------------2014---BE---AW-late-Manti
----------------------------------2015---BE---Muzz-SW Desert
Visser, Clint---------------------2017---PR---Arch-Parker Mtn
----------------------------------2018---BR--Summer-no dogs-Was Mtns W/Cent Mtns
Wager, Jody--------------------2012---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2013---BE---AW-late-Fishlake/Thous Lk
Walker, Allen-------------------2012---PR---AW-Mt Dutton/Pauns
----------------------------------2015---BI---OIL-cow-late-Henry Mtns
Warner, Dustin-----------------2010---BE---AW-early-Nebo
----------------------------------2016---BR---Summer-no dogs-Wasatch Mtns W
Warner, Ray--------------------2011---BE---Arch-Monroe
----------------------------------2013---BD---Muzz-Vernon
Wasilewski, Donald-------------2012---BD---Arch-Vernon
----------------------------------2016---BE---Arch-Nebo
West, David---------------------2011---BR---Spring-Book Cliffs
----------------------------------2015---TU---N Reg
Wheeler, Duke------------------2016---BE---Multi Season-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2017---BE---AW-early-San Juan
Whitaker, Korey----------------2013---BR---Fall-Nine Mile
----------------------------------2017---CO---Split (LE/Harv Obj)-Nebo
Whiting, Andrew----------------2011---RMG---OIL-N Slope/S Slope/High Uintas Cent
----------------------------------2015---PR---Arch-Plateau
----------------------------------2018---BE---Arch-Wasatch Mtns
Wilko, Brett---------------------2009---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2010---BE---AW-early-Pahvant
Willey, Marion------------------2013---CO---LE-Pine Valley
----------------------------------2016---CO---Split (LE/Harv Obj)-Panguitch Lk
Williams, Gregg----------------2012---TU---NE Reg
----------------------------------2015---BD---Muzz-Book Cliffs
Wisham, Scott------------------2009---BM---OIL-Cache
----------------------------------2013---CO---LE-Cache
Woods, Chris-------------------2007---TU---Pahvant
----------------------------------2010---CO---LE-Ogden
Worwood, Bill-------------------2007---TU---Beaver
----------------------------------2012---TU---S Reg
Wright, Jeff---------------------2008---PR---AW-Plateau
----------------------------------2010---BE---Arch-Diamond Mtn
Yates, Jeffrey-------------------2012---BD---Arch-Book Cliffs
----------------------------------2013---BE---AW-early-Wasatch Mtns
----------------------------------2014---PR---AW-SW Desert
Young, Douglas-----------------2016---BD---AW-Vernon
----------------------------------2018---BE---AW-late-Manti

Well, that was fun! NOT!!!! We couldn't paste it as a file, so we had to paste it as script and then I edited it for simplicity and clarity, but that was better the re-typing it all over again.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

That list is enough to make ya go hmmm...


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

EFA is trying to set records by getting TOTP AND BOTP in one post. Consider me impressed!


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

That list of winners does not include people who drew 2 for the same species in one year and had to chose one. Pretty crazy that in 10 years there is so much duplication. I had no idea it was that extensive.

..


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## grizzly (Jun 3, 2012)

Look away. Nothing to see here. Move along, now.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

The only positive change they can make is to do away with expo tags altogether and leave them where they belong.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DeRoest, Joseph--------------2008---BR---San Juan
--------------------------------2009---BE---Arch-Manti
--------------------------------2010---BD---AW-Pauns
--------------------------------2010---TU---SE Reg
--------------------------------2011---BE---AW-early-Manti


WOWWWWW


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

EFA - thanks for taking the time to post up that list. Now, I am not looking for a witch hunt or anything of the likeness, but it would be interesting to see the percentage of those who drew numerous tags over the years and whether they were members of SFW or not. 

I find data-mining very interesting and very telling. For example, if SFW members made up 10% of the total applicant pool, but drew 80% of the tags, one could easily argue - and you attorneys please correct me if I am wrong - and probably win a suit claiming collusion. If that were the case, and enough was made out of it, one could potentially see a ban of SFW. (I know, I know, big dreams). Could it go so far to demand SFW repay all the fees received from the expo over the years? I don't know . . . 

For example, in my profession, the improper treatment of one singular audit, in one singular office, caused the collapse of one of the largest accounting firms in the world.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Collusion is a high bar, and probably not the correct word for what would be more likely if we are talking about 10% getting 80%, as you referenced. Corruption would be the right word, and I'm not sure anyone cares. The DWR, with this new rule proposal, is now openly admitting they DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES in how they awarded the last expo contract. It simply does not get any more clear than it currently is that they stacked the deck for one group, and broke the rules to do it. Yet, aside from a few grumpy people on the internet, does anyone care? 

Yes, in the business world, this type of action could sink huge companies. In the government world, where they are the only show in town and control what we all want, they can simply just say, "These are not the droids you are looking for" and point us to the next draw to distract us.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

I certainly don't know whether or not there's some kind of mischief going on, but it does strike a note with me. Many years ago, while living in Ventura County California, my 3 boys earned some Dodger tickets by selling Scoutorama tickets. We'd never seen so many people in one place. If you were to tell me then (or now) that 200 prizewinning seat numbers were to be picked at random in that crowd of 56,000 fans and several people got more than one prize, I'd have called the draw rigged. Then to say that it happened 12 games in a row is nothing short of a miracle if not rigged. Or to draw someone's seat number 2, 3, 4 or 5 times during those 12 games? Really?

However, whether or not it's flawed or rigged, to rely on a one or two man concession to do the $1M+ draw for public assets sure seems risky any way you look at it!


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

I've been wondering lately about a big Hunter movement and getting the Utah legislature involved to pass a law taking the expo away from the dwr and sfw and putting it to a public vote, or just to the group that should have taken it RMEF in the meantime. I bet we could get the signatures needed for something like that. What's stopping us?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Ballot initiative for the expo? These are pretty darn expensive, and difficult to do. And how many voting residents in Utah 1) even know about the expo at all; and 2) if they've actually heard about it, know the corruption that has gone on?

Despite what SFW and others would have you believe, this expo is small potatoes. The *ONLY* reason it even gets the little attention it gets now is because of those 200 tags. But therein is your point, and until someone can get the ear of the governor and make changes with the viewpoint of the wildlife board and DWR from the top down, I suspect nothing will change anything.


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## fobit (Mar 1, 2017)

I'll help gather signatures. I have done that before. I think we could win that one.
Don't expect help from the governor, he sides with the moneyed interests over sportsmen. That became obvious when he gave away the river bottoms.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I’ll sign.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I wouldn't. I am totally against the state legislature getting involved with the management of wildlife or hunting tags--expo or not. I think that this would open up a huge can of worms that could snowball into something much worse for the general public. Utah is already a red state and we already have a lot of people against local, state, and federal government. If we start heading down this road, I can imagine a situation where all wildlife management is taken from the state and handed to private companies who manage for profit and price the little guys out. I get that people are mad about the Expo and I hate it too and hate how public tags are auctioned outside of it as well, but it is better than alternatives. Pushing this situation to the state legislature and/or to the ballot is not a good thing in my opinion.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> I wouldn't. I am totally against the state legislature getting involved with the management of wildlife or hunting tags--expo or not. I think that this would open up a huge can of worms that could snowball into something much worse for the general public. Utah is already a red state and we already have a lot of people against local, state, and federal government. If we start heading down this road, I can imagine a situation where all wildlife management is taken from the state and handed to private companies who manage for profit and price the little guys out. I get that people are mad about the Expo and I hate it too and hate how public tags are auctioned outside of it as well, but it is better than alternatives. Pushing this situation to the state legislature and/or to the ballot is not a good thing in my opinion.


Right. I agree.

RMEF had an opportunity for litigation on the RFP process - but chose not to. That would have been completely different then this though


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I think if people are serious about holding the DWR accountable for the RFP and choice of SFW for the Expo they should show up to the RACs and the Wildlife Board meetings and continue to voice that frustration. I think a loud and continuous venting over the decision may just be heard by SFW and the DWR...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> I am totally against the state legislature getting involved with the management of wildlife or hunting tags--expo or not.


Ummm...too late. https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title23/23.html?v=C23_1800010118000101

Your point is well taken, and I agree a ballot initiative is not the greatest idea in the world on this. I think that is a bad way to make law, generally. However, it has as much chance of not only getting the amount of signatures necessary to get on the ballot, but also passing a general election as I do of becoming governor in 2020. And I'm not running.

I maintain that the change has to come from the top. It's long shot, particularly with the current governor. However, there is an election in 2020 that will be important for sportsmen to make their presence known. I would start working with potential candidates now, if you think you want to make a difference.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

wyoming2utah said:


> I think if people are serious about holding the DWR accountable for the RFP and choice of SFW for the Expo they should show up to the RACs and the Wildlife Board meetings and continue to voice that frustration. I think a loud and continuous venting over the decision may just be heard by SFW and the DWR...


Excellent post! Ultimately, the RAC's and WB meetings is where all this has to go anyway regardless of who proposes it. We don't need 25,000 signatures. All we need is 25+ voices at EVERY RAC and Wildlife Board meeting where this (or any other issue you care about) is on the schedule.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that if 25 people showed up at a RAC meeting they wouldn't know what to do. 

But if all 25 were of like minds you could sure push your addenda through all of them.

It could get quite interesting.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Critter said:


> I think that if 25 people showed up at a RAC meeting they wouldn't know what to do.
> 
> But if all 25 were of like minds you could sure push your addenda through all of them.


This is what the advantage of a well organized lobby will do, too many voices speaking at once sounds like a flock of geese. Also, it really shouldn't matter what SFW thinks or hears. It only matters what is presented to the DWR and the actions they take. Publicly, it would show their true colors and intent.

Some may think that 200 tags are not very much, but when a state is managed for quality, 200 tags are a lot.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

When the Expo tags were first proposed in a joint lobbying effort by SFW, RMEF, MDF, NWTF, and FNAWS the Central RAC had a school auditorium so full that there was standing room only. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 1,000 people there. Many spoke against the tags. They actually asked the audience to raise their hand if they were against the idea of Expo tags-- I'd guess that 90%+ raised their hands. I don't have first hand recollection of the other RACs. Then there were many who spoke against the idea at the Board meeting. The proposal passed.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

If RMEF had been awarded the contract would we still claim corruption if/when someone drew two tags in the same year?

My guess is that yes, we definitely would.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

KineKilla said:


> If RMEF had been awarded the contract would we still claim corruption if/when someone drew two tags in the same year?
> 
> My guess is that yes, we definitely would.


Depends how often their board members, mossback affiliates, etc.. drew.

The fact they were proposing to use the same system as the regular draw was enough for me. Not some back door program. So no more corrupt then what our regular draw is.

I actually disagree with the "definitely".


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Well for some people it would be definitely. For others maybe not.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a RMEF life member and SL Chapter volunteer and would loved to have seen them get the contract. I attend banquets, work projects, and have never won a single raffle drawing while others win multiple times per event. It happens, but it’s in a transparent drawing so I don’t cry foul.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

KineKilla said:


> but it's in a transparent drawing so I don't cry foul.


This is the major key. I just feel like SFW's draw is "overly" unknown. It's weird seeing high ranking members draw OIAL consecutively.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> KineKilla said:
> 
> 
> > but it's in a transparent drawing so I don't cry foul.
> ...


Agreed


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> If RMEF had been awarded the contract would we still claim corruption if/when someone drew two tags in the same year?
> 
> My guess is that yes, we definitely would.


Depends on if those people were regularly significant donors to RMEF and they used a guy running the draw out of his basement? If SFW used the company that ran the main draw for expo permits, I'd get rid of any suspicion. That company has way too much to lose across the board if they were involved in nefarious conduct.

And those thinking that being involved in the RACs is how to change this...well, I got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like you to take a look at. See Packout's post, plus every other bait and switch the WB, DWR, and SFW have pulled together over the years.


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## hawkeye (Feb 18, 2008)

Two comments.

First, RMEF did in fact commit to using the same company in Fallon, Nevada that conducts the general draw.

Second, most sportsmen have given up on the RAC and WB process. I was in attendance at the Central RAC meeting that Packout described 12 years ago. There was substantial opposition to the Expo tags but a few powerful groups and voices wanted them. I could name several other instances where loud public outcry was ignored. When I attended the Central RAC meeting on May 1st to speak out on the Expo Permit Rule changes, I was the only member of the public to comment other than the President of SFW. I knew going in that my comments would not change the outcome but I wanted to make a couple of points on the record. That was a important issue but sportsmen do to show up and participate in these meetings because they don't think it makes a difference. I am not trying to criticize RAC members because there are some great guys on the RACs. At the end of the day, however, the WB and the powerful sportsmens groups seem to get their way on every issue.

Hawkeye


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Ballot initiatives and more legislation through the state house and senate, though, isn't the answer. Like the WB, the RACs, or not, that is the process. One loud shout probably won't convince anyone of anything as you have mentioned...but a long persistent shout might. If this fight is fought over an extended period of time and consistently brought up at every RAC and every WB meeting over a longer course of time, I believe they will be forced to listen. I would also think that SFW would be forced to get a little bit more transparent in what they are doing.

Any way you split it, though, I will be totally against any kind of ballot initiative or new legislation. Again, to me, that is opening up an awful can of worms. I don't believe the hunting public wants to go down that road.

Also, FWIW, I can think of several instance of when loud public outcry was NOT ignored at RACs and with the WB. And, I can think of several instances when comments from the general public were not only listened to but followed an ideas implemented because of it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> Also, FWIW, I can think of several instance of when loud public outcry was NOT ignored at RACs and with the WB. And, I can think of several instances when comments from the general public were not only listened to but followed an ideas implemented because of it.


We any of these going against what SFW said on the issue?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

And yes, W2U, a ballot initiative is generally a bad way to make law, and wouldn't be a good thing here either. 

Anyone have an in with Spencer Cox? I sure hope he's our next governor, and I think he'd be more open to listening to the issues than a couple of the other rumored "front runners."


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> And yes, W2U, a ballot initiative is generally a bad way to make law, and wouldn't be a good thing here either.
> 
> Anyone have an in with Spencer Cox? I sure hope he's our next governor, and I think he'd be more open to listening to the issues than a couple of the other rumored "front runners."


Spencer Cox is a snake. I may have an in with him, but I don't trust him for nothing and would probably never vote for him. He is not the answer...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> Spencer Cox is a snake. I may have an in with him, but I don't trust him for nothing and would probably never vote for him. He is not the answer...


Well, your alternatives look like Jason Chaffetz or Greg Hughes. Good luck!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> One loud shout probably won't convince anyone of anything as you have mentioned...but a long persistent shout might.


This!! Consider the amount of hunters in the state. Tags issued plus all of us that have gotten the dreaded "unsuccessful".

Now go to the meetings. What percent of hunters do you think go? Around 1%?

It's tiny. I am guilty of it too. I can't always make them - and I accept that means I can only be so loud. Multiply that by all of us here with the same excuse. Maybe it wouldn't change, but we won't ever know because there isn't a big enough voice there. As much as we may disagree, hell even me and W2U do sometimes, most of us want what is best and the majority usually agree on the big issues.

We then fail to put that into action anywhere but the internet.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Spencer Cox is a snake. I may have an in with him, but I don't trust him for nothing and would probably never vote for him. He is not the answer...


Those are pretty strong words! What do you have to back up that statement?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Well, your alternatives look like Jason Chaffetz or Greg Hughes. Good luck!


Yuck, between those three I would definitely take Cox as well.

A couple more thoughts.

1. With a signed contract between the DWR and SFW, is there really much that can be done until time for the contract renewal? SFW holds all the cards. They may throw the public a bone to reduce the complaints but history would suggest they will do as they please. When RMEF declined to litigate after the WB board choice, our best chance at changing things was lost with the decision.

2. While I will agree that the RAC system may indeed work for some things, especially regulations, I am afraid that other reform will only come through the regular political process. For instance, I have never liked Utah's current Wildlife Board system. They have too much power over the DWR and when it is stacked with SFW officers as it has been recently, what do you think will happen? The public can bellyache in RAC's all they want, but it will fall on deaf ears if the complaining is asking the WB to vote against their self interest. With minimal oversight, WB members suffer little consequence in doing anything they see fit, whether the public is complaining in RAC's or not. On issues like the Expo, I don't see that the RAC system will be very helpful as a vehicle for change.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

1- Is there a contract?
2- What does it require?
3- What will it cost to get out of it?

I’m sure there is an out clause for law changes, emergency situations, etc. But then again, with these parties, maybe not.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I'd guess that we will just have to live with the current contract but the real key is what decisions are going to be made the next time it goes out to bid.

The WB and Legislators need to know that we the people are watching and are demanding a change. All our complaining will not change the current set up but it has a chance of changing future actions. Or at least I think it does.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The current contract allows for an extension without going out to bid, so you might be talking 10 years before this his to go out for another sham RFP process.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> The current contract allows for an extension without going out to bid, so you might be talking 10 years before this his to go out for another sham RFP process.


Additionally, unless there was to be a dramatic shift in the landscape at the DWR/State level, I am doubtful that any reputable organization would willingly submit themselves to the trouble of going through the process, given how the last one played out.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

So we all need to hit the meetings then. I will admit I have not been good about making it to RAC meetings. I am going to commit now to make every one I am here for. If we all do the same and show up in enough numbers maybe we can have some sway to not extend the contract and have a re-do on the whole deal. Get a real conservation group running it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Or simply return those 200 expo tags to the public draw, where they belong. 

Or better yet, the ~500 expo+conservation tags to the public draw every year, where they belong. 

I still believe that 181 bull elk and 150 buck deer tags EVERY YEAR back in the public draw would help with point creep. Not to mention the OIL tags... But I'm old fashioned that way.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A couple questions/comments

1.


Vanilla said:


> The current contract allows for an extension without going out to bid, so you might be talking 10 years before this his to go out for another sham RFP process.


I know it was discussed a couple years ago when this all went down, but whose option is it to renew without rebidding after 5 years? DWR, SFW, both, or either?

2.


jebuwh said:


> So we all need to hit the meetings then. I will admit I have not been good about making it to RAC meetings. I am going to commit now to make every one I am here for. If we all do the same and show up in enough numbers maybe we can have some sway to not extend the contract and have a re-do on the whole deal. Get a real conservation group running it.


As I said before, that is great and all but do you seriously think that the Wildlife Board, who makes *all* the DWR related decisions and which has a large plurality of SFW officers in it, will vote to do something that is detrimental to SFW's position? Remember, all RAC recommendations feed into the Wildlife Board for decision making. RAC's are only as the "A" says, advisory.

3.


Vanilla said:


> Or simply return those 200 expo tags to the public draw, where they belong.
> 
> Or better yet, the ~500 expo+conservation tags to the public draw every year, where they belong.
> 
> I still believe that 181 bull elk and 150 buck deer tags EVERY YEAR back in the public draw would help with point creep. Not to mention the OIL tags... But I'm old fashioned that way.


OK, I agree with this, but in interacting with politicians, what changes do we advocate and with what reasoning? Do we just demand that the Expo tags be ended out of hand or do we argue that the Expo and it's bidding has not been conducted in the public's best interest and specific changes need to be made up to and including reduction of the program or massive changes in oversight?

Do we demand changes in the Wildlife board since I see no way on earth that they would unilaterally vote to discontinue the Expo tag program or even vote to not renew in 3 years. Other ideas?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> Or simply return those 200 expo tags to the public draw, where they belong.
> 
> Or better yet, the ~500 expo+conservation tags to the public draw every year, where they belong.
> 
> I still believe that 181 bull elk and 150 buck deer tags EVERY YEAR back in the public draw would help with point creep. Not to mention the OIL tags... But I'm old fashioned that way.


I'm fine with the pissing contests that occur for conservation tags. Give 15% to the group auctioning the tag, set a "reserve" on each, and then the 85% goes directly to the DWR. That is a BUNCH more than currently for DWR. That group can sell "plates" (dinner) or whatever they want to raise money for their group. I am sick of giving SFW 2M a year because we hand them a state/public resource. Raise money like all the other non-profit (lol) have to.

The expo tags are a gimmick to FORCE people to go to the expo, and get money for those groups not wildlife. Put those back in the draw!

Or do an online raffle or super lotto- I believe other states offer that. Residents only. Money goes 100% to the state. Same type of thing but you apply online. Draw is ran through the current draw company.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Well, your alternatives look like Jason Chaffetz or Greg Hughes. Good luck!


Wait a second...do you mean that these will be the only candidates? I am sure that a democrat will be on the ticket as well. Personally, I would rather vote for a democrat than Spencer Cox, Chaffetz, or Hughes. What about Josh Romney? Is he still considering a run? What is his track record?


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Catherder said:


> A couple questions/comments
> 
> 1.
> 
> I know it was discussed a couple years ago when this all went down, but whose option is it to renew without rebidding after 5 years? DWR, SFW, both, or either?


Is there a difference between the two organizations?

;-)


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> Wait a second...do you mean that these will be the only candidates? I am sure that a democrat will be on the ticket as well. Personally, I would rather vote for a democrat than Spencer Cox, Chaffetz, or Hughes. What about Josh Romney? Is he still considering a run? What is his track record?


You could write my name too, if it will make you feel better. I thought we were talking about people that had a chance of being the next governor.


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## curlycoyote (Sep 11, 2015)

I believe that the expo contract says up to 200 tags which means it could be less. I don't know where to find it but I am sure hawkeye could verify or find it quick. Why not start an on line petition and get signatures to lower the number to 50 or a 100 tags and that does not mean just get rid of the turkey, bear, cougar etc but the big game tags. Something that always has puzzled me is they will set the numbers for next years expo in Aug of 2018 for 2019 but we have to wait until the April 2019 numbers to come out to see how many tags will be issued. Same with conservation tags, they are set in Sept. 2018 for 2019. Why can't a petition be done to lower the percent of tags given for the conservation permits also. I do not have the computer smarts to do something like this but I would make every effort to back someone that could present this to the WB in Aug. 5,000 or 10,000 signatures on a petition should carry some weight I would hope. Just a thought because getting it canceled altogether seems impossible.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

I get wanting the tags to go back into the pool. I have no problem with that. But at he same time if we had a group like RMEF running things and giving 100% of the dollars back to conservation I would be alright with that. We need all the help we can get as far as conservation dollars go.

And Catherder, if giving input at RAC meetings won't do anything, what should we do? The SFW situation needs to be fixed. And soon.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Catherder said:


> OK, I agree with this, but in interacting with politicians, what changes do we advocate and with what reasoning? Do we just demand that the Expo tags be ended out of hand or do we argue that the Expo and it's bidding has not been conducted in the public's best interest and specific changes need to be made up to and including reduction of the program or massive changes in oversight?
> 
> Do we demand changes in the Wildlife board since I see no way on earth that they would unilaterally vote to discontinue the Expo tag program or even vote to not renew in 3 years. Other ideas?


I guess you can advocate whatever you feel is appropriate. Here is my take on each of the issues you mentioned.

1- WB appointments are for 6 years. I do not believe the governor can just remove someone from the board, but maybe? What needs to happen is when the next appointments come open, the public has to have a large enough voice to convince them another SFW plant is not what is needed. But we need qualified people who have interests outside of one specific organization to put their name in the hat. This is where the most important things happen, obviously. It is the WB that guides all decisions related to wildlife in our state. We need good, qualified, and unbiased people on the board, not the former board from a wildlife organization that just "moved up" to implement all the ideas of said organization statewide. This is where the greatest and most impactful changes could come, and this is where the governor comes in. While the WB only gets its authority by delegation from the legislature via statute, it's the governor that picks these people.

2- I think the expo tags should be ended. Period. I also think the conservation tags should be ended. If, and that is a big if (since I don't think it should happen), the DWR wants to raise money for wildlife projects through auctioning tags, the state should conduct the auction itself and keep 100% of the proceeds. It should not be farmed out to make a few people rich, and then get some of it back in wildlife projects. Yes, I attend the expo each year and put my name in the hat for a handful of tags. Yes, I know I'm part of the problem. But I have said before, and I'll reiterate, as long as those tags are available, I want a chance. After all, they are mine as much as anyone else's. All that said, I want them all back in the public draw, where they belong. This could be done by decision of the wildlife board. They do not have to allocate any tags to the expo, they do so by choice. If you can convince the WB to stop the expo and conservation tags, they simply stop. This could also be done by legislation. As mentioned above, the WB gets every bit of its power granted to it by the legislature. The legislature could simply pass a law that says the WB can't issue tags to any conservation organization or expo, and all tags must be issued through the state draw. The better way to do this is convincing the WB, but good luck. The easier way might be convincing the legislature, but good luck. Heck, on the very day they were having the hotly contested vote on stream access, they "coincidentally" decided to honor Don Peay on the House floor. Weird that he spent the rest of the time he was there advocating against stream access...

3- I don't care if SFW, MDF, RMEF, or WKRP in Cincinnati runs the expo, I prefer the tags return to the public draw. RMEF's proposal was obviously superior for the public interest, since they were going to return 100% of the $5 app fees back to the state, and were going to use a reputable draw system (the same one the state, and many other states use) that would quash much of the skepticism behind the tags. However, just because it was better, does not make it great. Beating a dead horse, but I want the tags back in the draw. Yes, I realize that means I lose out on extra opportunities, but I think that is what is best for Utah hunters.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> I guess you can advocate whatever you feel is appropriate. Here is my take on each of the issues you mentioned.
> 
> 1- WB appointments are for 6 years. I do not believe the governor can just remove someone from the board, but maybe? What needs to happen is when the next appointments come open, the public has to have a large enough voice to convince them another SFW plant is not what is needed. But we need qualified people who have interests outside of one specific organization to put their name in the hat. This is where the most important things happen, obviously. It is the WB that guides all decisions related to wildlife in our state. We need good, qualified, and unbiased people on the board, not the former board from a wildlife organization that just "moved up" to implement all the ideas of said organization statewide. This is where the greatest and most impactful changes could come, and this is where the governor comes in. While the WB only gets its authority by delegation from the legislature via statute, it's the governor that picks these people.
> 
> ...


I am on board for any kind of changes to take away the power from SFW and Peay. So how do we make it happen to take away tags completely and give them back to the draw? What is the process?

I guess if we are only getting a small percentage from SFW anyways we wont miss the money all that much, and I am sure we could make it up another way.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I guess you can advocate whatever you feel is appropriate. Here is my take on each of the issues you mentioned.
> 
> 1- WB appointments are for 6 years. I do not believe the governor can just remove someone from the board, but maybe? What needs to happen is when the next appointments come open, the public has to have a large enough voice to convince them another SFW plant is not what is needed. But we need qualified people who have interests outside of one specific organization to put their name in the hat. This is where the most important things happen, obviously. It is the WB that guides all decisions related to wildlife in our state. We need good, qualified, and unbiased people on the board, not the former board from a wildlife organization that just "moved up" to implement all the ideas of said organization statewide. This is where the greatest and most impactful changes could come, and this is where the governor comes in. While the WB only gets its authority by delegation from the legislature via statute, it's the governor that picks these people.
> 
> ...


Good discussion.

Here are some ideas I'd favor.

Foremost, as stated, I'm profoundly skeptical of real changes taking place within the division and with issues like the Expo as long as the Wildlife Board has as much power as it does and is appointed as it is. Yes, we can lobby the Governor to make better choices, and it may be fruitful with some administrations, but by and large, I suspect political appointees will often be pushed by special interests with predictable results. My preference would be to abolish the WB altogether, but it would leave a power vacuum. Short of that, I would advocate these changes. 1) The DWR director becomes a voting member instead of non voting. 2) Some or all positions become elected positions instead of appointees, Those may be regional or statewide. 3) The DWR section head is allowed to vote on a given issue related to their jurisdiction. ie: fishing, big game, upland game, etc.

In talking about the Expo tag program with politicians, it should be pointed out the program has left a large segment of the public distrustful of the DWR, which may affect it's effectiveness in carrying out its mission. Even if the politicians cannot be convinced to end the program, it may cause them to scrutinize what has happened and put real pressure on the Wildlife Board, DWR, and SFW to clean up their acts and make changes to the program, even with the contract in force.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> You could write my name too, if it will make you feel better. I thought we were talking about people that had a chance of being the next governor.


Oh, so we as voters have to choose who you think has a chance? We are still two years out from that election. If you think those are the only two repubs who have chance, I think you are crazy. And, come on, elections are changed one vote at time, and Utah has had democrats as governors...with that kind of sentiment, why vote at all?

Spencer Cox is still not the answer...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> Oh, so we as voters have to choose who you think has a chance? We are still two years out from that election. If you think those are the only two repubs who have chance, I think you are crazy. And, come on, elections are changed one vote at time, and Utah has had democrats as governors...with that kind of sentiment, why vote at all?
> 
> Spencer Cox is still not the answer...


Why do you turn everything into a useless, circular argument? We are trying to have a fruitful discussion about how change can actually occur on an issue that the vast majority of us believe there is a problem. Nit picking every little comment to try and argue the tangential issues that have nothing to do with the problem we are discussing is just dumb. Don't be dumb, heppy. Take Nike's advice, and just don't do it.

Second, I mentioned 3 republicans, not 2. And yes, I think one of those 3 mentioned will be the next governor of the state of Utah. Could I be wrong? Yes, I could. But that is my prediction as of May 16, 2018. It's not that important of a prediction, though. You really should not lose any sleep over it. Nor should you use it to go lay down a large sum of money with your political bookie in Richfield.

If you have a name you'd like to throw out there that we can all get behind that can help bring the changes we are talking about, throw it out there. I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, I don't know what else to tell ya.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

The comments made by SFW representation at the latest WB meeting and the tenor of those comments has me wondering if considerable pressure and scrutiny hasn't/isn't already been/being applied.

I've long stood in line to bash said conservation organization and I was left with the slightest glimmer that there may just be hope yet.

Or perhaps I'm falling into their trap...


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm biting my tongue REALLY HARD and doing my best to refrain from speaking my mind on the issues brought up in this thread. Maybe if I get a good night's sleep I'll be calmer and can make a contributory post tomorrow...-O,--O,--O,-


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

derekp1999 said:


> The comments made by SFW representation at the latest WB meeting and the tenor of those comments has me wondering if considerable pressure and scrutiny hasn't/isn't already been/being applied.
> 
> I've long stood in line to bash said conservation organization and I was left with the slightest glimmer that there may just be hope yet.
> 
> Or perhaps I'm falling into their trap...


You are falling for the sfw trap


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

These are my feeling also comments caught me off guard for sure.


derekp1999 said:


> The comments made by SFW representation at the latest WB meeting and the tenor of those comments has me wondering if considerable pressure and scrutiny hasn't/isn't already been/being applied.
> 
> I've long stood in line to bash said conservation organization and I was left with the slightest glimmer that there may just be hope yet.
> 
> Or perhaps I'm falling into their trap...


Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

How many members does sfw claim to have now? Thought I saw somewhere that listed 7000 that seems pretty low though.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

hazmat said:


> You are falling for the sfw trap


I hope not! From the surprised looks on the faces of the attendees I saw at the meeting when Troy, the SFW President, made his comments, if this was meant to be an SFW trap, there are gonna be a LOT of unhappy people if they don't follow through with his statements! And that even includes some of the SFW members who were there, as well as the Wildlife Board, the 15 or 20 DWR employees and the other Conservation organizations. Nobody likes being lied to. Of course, given their past record, it remains to be seen, but he/they put a lot of people on notice and a LOT of eyes are now watching.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

stillhunterman said:


> I'm biting my tongue REALLY HARD and doing my best to refrain from speaking my mind on the issues brought up in this thread. Maybe if I get a good night's sleep I'll be calmer and can make a contributory post tomorrow...-O,--O,--O,-


Please share. Any insight positive or negative is good.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

So I sent an email off to my local Rep, Steve Handy here in Layton. Basically explained the general distrust most hunters here have for SFW and DWR and how it seems like backdoor deals are going on. That and the tags removed from our draw are basically making SFW a ton of money. 

He personally emailed back from his phone a couple hours later and said he was not aware of the situation and did some reading online about the bid process with SFW and RMEF, the money for expo tags and where it goes and all that. He seemed pretty upset and let me know he would be contacting the DWR and doing some more investigation. 

So who knows where that will go but getting some more people looking into it can't hurt.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Some of the ideas I've seen on this thread are valid and some aren't.

To clarify, here's a summary on how the RAC and Wildlife Board system works:

The WB consists of 7 voting members which are appointed by the Governor, with the consent of the Utah Senate, from a list of 2 to 4 candidates per position who are nominated by a Nominating Committee. (There is also 1 non-voting member, a secretary, who is the DWR Director.) The members each serve a term of 6 years and the terms are staggered so that 2 (or 3) members are replaced every 2 years. Every region is represented, but no more than 2 members can be from any region and members from the same region have staggered terms. There's also a requirement that all members must have experience or expertise in wildlife management/biology OR habitat management OR business OR economics and there needs to be at least one member on the Board from each category. That obviously narrows down the possible candidates.

To further screen the WB lists (and give more power to the Governor) we also have a Wildlife Board Nominating Committee (as mentioned above) consisting of 11 members with 4 year staggered terms who are also chosen by the Governor from lists of applicants submitted by: 1)the agriculture industry (3 members), sportsmen's groups (3 members), non-consumptive wildlife interests (2 members), federal land management agencies (1 member), Utah Association of Counties (1 elected official), Utah Chapters-Society of Range Management and Wildlife Society in collaboration (1 member).

Theoretically, SFW could only have 3 members on this committee, but if it's like the Mule Deer Committee I was on where there were 5 or 6 SFW members who were officially representing other entities, this committee is as stacked as the Wildlife Board.

Now, the 5 Regional Advisory Councils (RAC's) consist of 12 to 15 members who are chosen by the executive director of the DNR in consultation with the director of the DWR (usually in consultation with the DWR Regional Director) from lists of nominees submitted by the following entities: agriculture, sportsmen, non-consumptive wildlife, locally elected officials, federal land agencies, and the public at large. They serve 4 year terms on a staggered basis so that 1/2 of the council is changed every 2 years.

As was stated, these councils are advisory only and have no authority to mandate any rules or regulations. However, if the WB rejects any recommendation from a (any) RAC they are required by regulation to provide a written explanation to the RAC. How often that actually happens is rare because they usually address that issue verbally at the WB meeting, but that's the rule.

FWIW, it's actually pretty easy to get nominated for these councils, especially for the public at large positions. I'm sure you have a few friends in high places that could nominate you per their businesses or affiliations for agriculture or sportsmen or non-consumptive or public at large. You don't have to actually be involved directly with the industry or group. All you have to do is commit to representing their interests, then do it! However, again, it allows any one group to have multiple positions on the RAC's. I know the Southern RAC has several SFW members, including 2 on their Board of Directors, so it's one of those good news, bad news arrangements.

Here's how all of that generally works:

Wildlife related proposals can came from many sources including the DWR, general public, sportsmen's groups, etc. and are usually presented to the RAC's first. The RAC's then receive questions from the public and other members of the RAC. They then receive comments from the public and other RAC members after which they discuss and vote on the proposal and recommend (or not, depending on the vote) the proposal to the Wildlife Board. In most cases, the Wildlife Board then goes through the same procedure as stated above with the addition of input from the RAC's and then they discuss and vote on the proposal, which then becomes the rule/regulation. That's what usually happens, but sometimes the proposal is placed on the action log for further study and/or input, in which case, it will be brought up again later on for a RAC and WB procedure and vote. In all cases, the proposal has to pass certain criteria referred to as the pentagon test, ie: biological, legal, economical, logistical, and social, with biological being first and social being last on the list of criteria. Unfortunately, most of the proposals we fight about are ultimately about hunting and fishing and are primarily social in nature and have very little impact on the other aspects. We all think everybody should hunt or fish like we do or want to and we get upset when it doesn't happen how or as fast as we think it should. Also, unfortunately, most of the fighting is done by those who have hunting and fishing higher on their list of priorities than the typical Utah outdoorsman/woman who doesn't have the time, money, knowledge, energy, health and/or interest to get involved. They just end up getting the scraps that are left behind and that inevitably takes it's toll on their numbers.

At this point, I could go on a rant about hunting and fishing opportunities lost, but, like Perry, I'll refrain from doing so until I get a good night's sleep (which isn't likely to happen under my and my family's current circumstances). I'll just let ya'll go about your and other people's business. :grin:


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A couple comments,

1.


jebuwh said:


> So I sent an email off to my local Rep, Steve Handy here in Layton. Basically explained the general distrust most hunters here have for SFW and DWR and how it seems like backdoor deals are going on. That and the tags removed from our draw are basically making SFW a ton of money.
> 
> He personally emailed back from his phone a couple hours later and said he was not aware of the situation and did some reading online about the bid process with SFW and RMEF, the money for expo tags and where it goes and all that. He seemed pretty upset and let me know he would be contacting the DWR and doing some more investigation.
> 
> So who knows where that will go but getting some more people looking into it can't hurt.


Awesome work! Part of why I'm asking and commenting here is to better formulate what* I *would say to a legislator via letter or in person, lobbying. If one just complains but doesn't offer possible solutions, the effort tends not to go far. You have done well!

2.


elkfromabove said:


> To clarify, here's a summary on how the RAC and Wildlife Board system works:...............................................


Lee, I am aware of how these rules and processes work. (although it is a good review for those that aren't) However, it is my assertion that these very rules you describe are partially at fault for the problems we all are concerned about. Changing some of them, especially at the WB level would help the most in the long run. I do recognize, however, that change at this level will be much harder to accomplish than getting a recommendation through a couple of RAC's, and will require action at the legislative level. I would also submit that true change on the Expo problem specifically will also require legislative involvement.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Catherder said:


> A couple comments,
> 
> 1.
> 
> ...


Barry, Yes, of course, I knew you were aware of how the rules and processes work and, in fact, as you indicated, I wrote it for the benefit of all those on this forum who didn't know and didn't know how some people/organizations are able to manipulate them to their advantage, most of the time at the expense of the typical Utah hunter/fishermen. You're right, it's flawed as it currently stands and many of the members of this forum need to recognize that. But more importantly, they need to know that, in spite of what some would have us believe, they can do something about it, whether on the RAC/WB level, the DWR level or the legislative level or even the grassroots level. I can't tell you how many times a friend of mine who owns an auto repair shop has told me about talking to some SFW member who got signed up by attending a banquet who had no idea what their leadership was saying or doing. Most of them were not happy about it!

In any case, thanks for your insight and input and for all you've done to help keep the outdoor family traditions alive.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

Well no update yet from my Utah rep. Interested to see what he says after he talks to DWR. They will probably give him the BS FAQ list they have posted on their website how everything is super transparent, honest, and for the good of Utah wildlife.


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## Outdoorchrisb (Jun 11, 2018)

These posts have been very interesting and insightful and I really appreciate all thecomments, input and education. 

I've been looking to get involved in processes following disappointment in what I've seen from the sidelines and what appear to be increasing problems in wildlife herd numbers. I've looked at attending so meetings but from what I've seen so far, the public meetings all appear to be scheduled during regular working hours (9 am). Dont know about you, but in my opinion if public meetings are held during regular work hours it appears to be straight up designed to not really actually get public input as the majority of the public would not be abe to make it. So the "public meeting" is more of a technical compliance thing rather than actually functionally working for the tended purpose. They should beheld like city council meetings, in the evenings, where the majority of the public can actually go outside of work hours. If the people running the meetings have a problem with this, I say, too bad. The extra evening or saturday hours are what you took on when you took a public office/role. Do it or get out and let someone in there who will.

Secondly, I've been looking at joining one or more groups and starting to look more at where i can volunteer. I've looked mostly at rmef, mdf and sfw, but with the comments I've seen here it makes me question these. I want most of my focus to be more towards mule deer and elk then fishing. So my question to all of you who already have your hands in this is what organization(s) do you recommend? Are there really any alternatives? I really want to help build up and push things that will increase healthy herds on public lands and respnsible public access. This includes efforts that will help stop/prevent public and political abuses.

I am wholly against anything that favors benefitting the wealthy above the average person as this only leads to the old British style of beurocracy that the founders of this country worked to throw off. (Only the elite and wealthy really get to enjoy the blessings and benefits of the natural resources). And I agree with much of the sentiment expressed here.

What do you all recommend?

Chris


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

RMEF.






* I may be biased *


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

So never heard back from my local rep. Surprise surprise.

BUT...

I had another idea. What if we started a competing non profit organization to go up against SFW. Like a Utah Sportsman Coalition. We'll come up with a catchy name or something. Get some volunteers to recruit members outside cabelas, sportsman's, places like that. 

If we had a group with enough Utah hunters as members, we would have some sway, and could even put up a bid to take over the Expo. This sounds a little crazy but I've really been putting a ton of thought into it...

Am I crazy?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

jebuwh said:


> So never heard back from my local rep. Surprise surprise.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> ...


A catchy name? How about United Wildlife Cooperative? No, wait, that name has already been taken by a now dormant, but legal, non-profit that has been up against the Expo tag arrangement since about 2012. However, all they ever got was a 30% Expo Permit application fee return to the DWR from a 0% return during the first 10 years. :grin:


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

elkfromabove said:


> A catchy name? How about* United Wildlife Cooperative*? No, wait, that name has already been taken by a *now dormant, but legal, non-profit *that has been up against the Expo tag arrangement since about 2012. However, all they ever got was a 30% Expo Permit application fee return to the DWR from a 0% return during the first 10 years. :grin:


Perhaps it's time for a wake up call to re-activate the United Wildlife Cooperative Lee? Trust me, I know how difficult that will be, and the tremendous amount of work it will take, let alone figuring out a way to invigorate Utah sportsmen and women enough to actively participate. There is NO other voice in Utah as of now, so it makes sense to me, though I am a bit senile at times...:smile:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

stillhunterman said:


> Perhaps it's time for a wake up call to re-activate the United Wildlife Cooperative Lee? Trust me, I know how difficult that will be, and the tremendous amount of work it will take, let alone figuring out a way to invigorate Utah sportsmen and women enough to actively participate. There is NO other voice in Utah as of now, so it makes sense to me, though I am a bit senile at times...:smile:


Frankly, that's why I kept us legal, Perry, but someone besides me needs to step up. I just have way too much on my plate right now and it doesn't look like it's gonna get easier. Otherwise, maybe it is time to start a new group!


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Maybe we should get together and have a like-minded conversation in person here soon. I feel strongly about the subject and know others here do as well. If we could all share the load, it'd be far easier.


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## Twill87 (May 17, 2015)

jebuwh said:


> So I sent an email off to my local Rep, Steve Handy here in Layton. Basically explained the general distrust most hunters here have for SFW and DWR and how it seems like backdoor deals are going on. That and the tags removed from our draw are basically making SFW a ton of money.
> 
> He personally emailed back from his phone a couple hours later and said he was not aware of the situation and did some reading online about the bid process with SFW and RMEF, the money for expo tags and where it goes and all that. He seemed pretty upset and let me know he would be contacting the DWR and doing some more investigation.
> 
> So who knows where that will go but getting some more people looking into it can't hurt.


Awesome work! I went down this road right after the expo and got no traction. I'm glad you got a response and am hopeful something comes from it. Here is an interesting finding I dug up when researching back in February.

GraySky Technologies is a 3rd party that conducts the draw for the expo. If you visit their website http://www.grayskytech.com/
it appears they have no prior experience to handling the Expo draw & it appears to be a good ole boy contract that was awarded under the table.

Also, pretty sure you have to renew your business license each year in Utah and they have not renewed their business license since 2015.

https://ibb.co/fh9KHJ

A lot of sketchy business being done with the SFW & DNR when it comes to the Expo.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

elkfromabove said:


> Frankly, that's why I kept us legal, Perry, but someone besides me needs to step up. I just have way too much on my plate right now and it doesn't look like it's gonna get easier. Otherwise, maybe it is time to start a new group!


I had no idea there was already a group in place! I am 100% on board with getting a small group together in person to discuss things and see where it takes us. And I'm definitely on board to help any way I can. I'm available pretty much any night, let's make it happen.

I have been thinking a lot about the long game, and plan to hopefully make a city council run here next year, end goal down the road of getting into the Utah State legislature and getting some stuff done around this place.


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## jebuwh (May 19, 2017)

I'm bumping this because I'm ready to make something happen. Anyone else who has commented before about being interested, please PM me with your email and we'll get something figured out as far as an initial get together and discuss meeting and go from there. 

Let's make some changes for the better for this state!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

jebuwh said:


> I'm bumping this because I'm ready to make something happen. Anyone else who has commented before about being interested, please PM me with your email and we'll get something figured out as far as an initial get together and discuss meeting and go from there.
> 
> Let's make some changes for the better for this state!


I'd be interested in attending a set-up meeting to provide some info on the paperwork that needs to happen. And depending on what is decided, I might even help with some of that initial paperwork, but as I mentioned, I'm in no position to deal with the everyday happenings. I'll send a PM.


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