# 3 year trial program



## Hunter_17 (Mar 15, 2008)

I totally missed it in the proc. Now off to buy my wife a licence so she can hunt now. 

No hunters ed required. Just be with a responsible adult with hunters ed and few more rules and good to go. 

Anyone else using this?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I've already taken out several buddies who've always wanted to try but didn't want to do hunter's education. Now they are hooked and looking to start asap so they can apply for all the cool stuff


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Yep. My wife and daughter.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

I couldn't be more on the fence with this than anything...

Not trying to stir the pot, but my wife has been "talking" about wanting to hunt for years... she'd really be the perfect candidate for this program.

That said, taking hunter's safety takes what? A week or two online, and a day at the range? And that's too much to ask?!

The hunter education program covers so much more than I could possibly cover in a day or two in the field... it'd be bad enough getting after her over her muzzle direction, let alone game identification in the thick of it all... 

I guess, at then end of the day, I'm personally against the program... for those of you that are for it... good luck with your "in the field instruction".


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## Jam (Sep 14, 2014)

I think it's a great idea. My wife is on the program and I think it makes me remember all the rules, regs and game identification. Makes it like you are just starting out again.


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## goonsquad (Sep 15, 2010)

I don't like it for a couple reasons stated above, but I do like it as a way to introduce someone to hunting without them putting in much. I think in the long run the more people who are given an intro like this the better. 
I would rather it only be hunts with shotguns or rimfire though.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

yep that hunters safety course is real tough. We should do away with it entirely. I'd like to see these winners who have not tried hunting, all because of that dang hassle and difficulty of a hunters safety course.


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## JoeRandall (Jun 24, 2012)

In all fairness how many people that are out their hunting on a general deer tag. That have taken hunters education do you feel safe hunting around? I believe strongly in taking hunters education that's why I became an instructor. But that hunters Ed most took when they were 11 years old. How much do they remember. How many stories do we read on here about how someone was unethical or breaking the law. Even when I'm not hunting if I go out in the wilderness during a rifle hunt I wear orange even though I'm not hunting. Common sense (isn't much common anymore) is key. I can be a good boy pass my written test, shooting test, and the attitude test. Then turn around and muzzle everyone in camp and shoot a doe cause a stick behind it looked like an antler the next week. Again I'm not saying get rid of hunter education its a very good thing. But if we can get some more people involved in hunting and the tradition before the hunter Ed class then bring it. And maybe because they found out they like hunting and want to take the class. They'll pay more attention in class.

I do think it would be better as a one or two year trail. Three years seems like a long time.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I think the ultimate goal should eventually be mentors who they themselves have never taken a hunters safety course. I think that's progress we can all agree on.


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## Rspeters (Apr 4, 2013)

On a personal level I like it because it opens up some opportunities to take some family/friends of mine out. However I'm not a fan of taking just any qualified hunter and letting them mentor someone else. Perhaps there should be a refresher course (online only) required for the mentors as well.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Im on the fence as well. It will be a great way to get my wife a chance at it and see if she really likes it. I don't think its laziness as some have suggested rather not being sure if its worth investing their time in something they might only use once. I would like to see some changes like maybe only one hunt or one year. who needs three years to decide if they like it or not?? Its also a bummer that it could make it a bit harder to draw a tag.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Excellent idea! Keep in mind that this wasnt all planned up on a napkin at a gas station, but after a careful study of the 35 other states that have had this in place for many years with excellent results.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

One of the reasons I'm so in favor of this is that I don't think Hunter's education as we currently have it is actually that effective. Maybe if it were harder or you had to repeat it every xxx number of years it would be more useful, but IMO there is almost no point to it currently.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

this couldn't just be about more money for the division could it?


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

I think it's actually a great program. A mentored trial hunter has to be with their mentor in the field, so it's not like they are making judgment calls alone. It gives potential hunters a chance to try it out, get hooked, and then want to go through hunters safety. And let's be honest about it. The person mentoring you has a lot more to do with your ethics than the class. You can put a kid through hunters safety, and it helps, but a good mentor who shows why we choose to take the high road can and will teach more valuable lessons in the field than a class ever will.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> this couldn't just be about more money for the division could it?


You should loosen the tinfoil hat, golf. Some things are just good ideas.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> You should loosen the tinfoil hat, golf. Some things are just good ideas.


A trophy for every kid also! Little Johnny shouldn't have to do anything for it.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks for the confidence in me utahgolf! I need another trophy!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Thanks for the confidence in me utahgolf! I need another trophy!


My bad, Little Timmy just doesn't have the same ring as little Johnny.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

For those of you who are opposed to this program, what do you think of the exception for people born pre-1965? I think that this rule alone shows that the current hunter's ed requirements are pointless. I like how Alaska does it, under 16 and unsupervised=needs hunter's ed otherwise no.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> For those of you who are opposed to this program, what do you think of the exception for people born pre-1965? I think that this rule alone shows that the current hunter's ed requirements are pointless. I like how Alaska does it, under 16 and unsupervised=needs hunter's ed otherwise no.


I think anyone hunting should be required to pass a safety and ethics course. Lets revamp the current course and make it better. I also think anyone owning a firearm should have to take a safety course as well. But that kinda logic would make me an anti gun socialist I guess.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

johnnycake said:


> For those of you who are opposed to this program, what do you think of the exception for people born pre-1965? I think that this rule alone shows that the current hunter's ed requirements are pointless. I like how Alaska does it, under 16 and unsupervised=needs hunter's ed otherwise no.


I'm not sure when they changed the law but I was born in 53 and had to have a hunter safety card until I was 18. I actually took the course twice. Once before I was eligible for small game at the ripe old age of 14 and then again with a friend that wanted someone to go with him when I was 17.

Arizona only requires it for hunters from the ages of 10-13 but if you take the course they will give you a extra bonus point for their draws for whatever animal you put in for.

Colorado requires it for all hunters born after 1949 and you must carry the card with you unless you have it verified on your conversation license.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I think the law in Utah about the born before '65 went into effect late eighties early nineties.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> I think anyone hunting should be required to pass a safety and ethics course. Lets revamp the current course and make it better. I also think anyone owning a firearm should have to take a safety course as well. But that kinda logic would make me an anti gun socialist I guess.


Look at some of the posts on this very site within the last month. Some you commented on and were upset at. I'm sure they passed the course and had an "ethics" class as well. And we're worried about someone with a mentor? It can't be any worse...


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I think the current hunter education course should be as utahgolf said, under 17 hunter safety course, over 17 none needed. I do think an online safety and ethics course for those over 17 would be just as effective as hunters safety. It really doesn't do a lot of good, but I would be cautious in making it more difficult to get hunters safety or requiring it to be passed more then once, hunters are being lost at a rapid pace, and to make it harder or jump through more strings to hunt or keep hunting, I think plenty of people would lose interest, and without hunters you aren't going to have the financial backbone to keep wildlife at hunt-able levels or pay for management.

I think this is a great program and will be much more effective getting people involved in hunting a lot more than all the youth hunts and youth catering we do in Utah. If you can get another person of any age interested in hunting, and they can get there kids interested it will do some good. 

Like I said I think after age 17 hunters ed is pretty pointless, I think an online safety and ethics course after age 17 would be just as effective as what we've got now.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

So that means we quit trying to teach those things?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Utahgolf, I think an online ethics course/mentoring program would be every bit as effective as what we currently have. It wouldn't be giving up, it would be evolving to better fit the needs of our current society.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> I think anyone hunting should be required to pass a safety and ethics course. Lets revamp the current course and make it better. I also think anyone owning a firearm should have to take a safety course as well. But that kinda logic would make me an anti gun socialist I guess.


Because the class clearly defines and instills good ethics... I'm sure none of the poaching, slob hunting, littering, over the bag limit types ever attended hunters safety. Personally I'm sure they were born in 1964 or earlier.

Here's the thing. Slobs are slobs. Thieves are thieves. They can all look you in the eye and give you the politically correct answer when it is in their best interest. But when they are out on their own, and no one is looking, their true nature shines through regardless of what the book said was the right answer. If you want people to jump through some hoops, great. If you want them to learn ethical behavior, teach them through your own behavior. Mentor a young hunter, preach and live ethics etc.

Honestly I think that a large portion of the hunters who cut corners, bend the rules, or flat out break them, do so because of the example their mentors showed them. You can tell a kid all day long how important safety, and ethics are, but the minute you cross that line in front of them, you've just taught them it's all just talk. The book can tell them to pick up their spent shells, but if the other hunters with them leave theirs, the lesson will be wasted immediately. The same goes for ethical shots, safety, and basic morals. Take them out and walk the walk.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Like I said I think after age 17 hunters ed is pretty pointless, I think an online safety and ethics course after age 17 would be just as effective as what we've got now.


 I think 1-I is right. after age 17 it's more of a liability issue than an educational one. Kind of like the extended archery ethics course. There's no way you can tell me that archery hunters don't know that there will be other people in the field, and that it's not ok to hunt through peoples back yards. But there are slobs who still do it every year. So..... the dwr has us go through the 3 minute online training course, so they can hold up their hands and say " it's not our fault, he took the course"

In the hunters safety course, they basically regurgitate common sense. What hunters choose to do with that largely depends upon the type of person they are, and the company they choose to keep.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

WasatchOutdoors said:


> Because the class clearly defines and instills good ethics... I'm sure none of the poaching, slob hunting, littering, over the bag limit types ever attended hunters safety. Personally I'm sure they were born in 1964 or earlier.
> 
> Here's the thing. Slobs are slobs. Thieves are thieves. They can all look you in the eye and give you the politically correct answer when it is in their best interest. But when they are out on their own, and no one is looking, their true nature shines through regardless of what the book said was the right answer. If you want people to jump through some hoops, great. If you want them to learn ethical behavior, teach them through your own behavior. Mentor a young hunter, preach and live ethics etc.
> 
> Honestly I think that a large portion of the hunters who cut corners, bend the rules, or flat out break them, do so because of the example their mentors showed them. You can tell a kid all day long how important safety, and ethics are, but the minute you cross that line in front of them, you've just taught them it's all just talk. The book can tell them to pick up their spent shells, but if the other hunters with them leave theirs, the lesson will be wasted immediately. The same goes for ethical shots, safety, and basic morals. Take them out and walk the walk.


 agreed, but just because there are those that choose to ignore ethics or safety, does that mean we quit trying? I think a great mentor is the best thing, but not everyone will have a good mentor and maybe a class will help get through to some people out there. The more the better. There are lousy drivers out there that ignore rules, but should we do away with safety classes and drivers ed? Same goes with any work place safety tests etc.... Just because some ignore the rules, doesn't mean we shrug our shoulders and scrap everything does it?


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## GoneGoosin (Aug 17, 2011)

I have to chime in and say that I for one am darned excited about this program for one young man. I have a neighbor that is a senior this year. He has been raised in a family with no hunting heritage. He is the second of a large family, he wrestles and works his tail off for a family business and has another job as well. I was one of his scout leaders at one point, taught he and many others to shoot rifles and shotguns as often as we were allowed to do so, took him with me to scout a marsh 5 years ago after getting my first boat and he has wanted to hunt ever since. This young man is very busy in life and may never have or take the time to do hunters safety but because of this course, he came to my house Sunday, took the quiz and passed. We are scheduled to go duck hunting on Friday October 24th and he gets to choose the other two people who will join us. Yes there are the safety concerns but if we continue to train and teach them the values we emulate in the marsh, the good ones that is, they will be fine mentors to others down the road.


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## ghost (Jun 12, 2011)

I personally think the program is a good idea as long as those that want to be mentors are responsible hunters with a true appreciation of the laws and rules as there are alot of adults I see in the marsh that shouldn't be allowed to hunt at all. As for the Hunter safety course I don't feel it's something we should step away from. Although in today's day and age I don't think it should be designed just for hunters I would like to see it heightened to a higher level, maybe taught in school as everyone should understand the proper way to treat a potentialy dangerous weapon. Possibly a mandatory education card in order to purchase any type of firearm. Though I do like the idea of introducing new people to the sport, the more that find a passion for it as myself and family the bigger voice hunters have which leads to a better chance of my sport staying around.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> agreed, but just because there are those that choose to ignore ethics or safety, does that mean we quit trying? I think a great mentor is the best thing, but not everyone will have a good mentor and maybe a class will help get through to some people out there. The more the better. There are lousy drivers out there that ignore rules, but should we do away with safety classes and drivers ed? Same goes with any work place safety tests etc.... Just because some ignore the rules, doesn't mean we shrug our shoulders and scrap everything does it?


 Oh, I totally get what you're saying. But as mentioned in the title, it's a TRIAL program. Designed specifically to get people to TRY out hunting with the help of a mentor. It's not a substitute for hunters safety by any means, and hunters safety is still required to continue hunting after the trial period.

If you think about it, realistically the only reason they extend it for 3 years is that the average person using this opportunity will go out what, once, maybe twice a year? If they're serious about hunting, they'll have to go through hunters education to be able to apply for any limited permits etc. It's just a real simple way to get a youngster out in your duck boat, or Larry from the corner office who has always wanted to try it, but his dad didn't hunt.

And once they try it, if they like it, the idea is that they will then take their safety course. There's no getting around the educational requirements, it's just a matter of giving them a little incentive by letting them see if they even like it before they do the course. In todays world where half the parents have their kids in gymnastics, soccer, dance, swim, wrestling, karate and 6 other activities every week (I think they're nuts personally) It's almost impossible to convince them to let you take your favorite niece, nephew, neighbor kid, scout in your troop etc out for a hunt as it is.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

you're probably right and at it's core I get what they are trying to do. I think the more education the better, and that will only help hunters and our hunting future. How bad will it look if there's an accident from this mentor program? I know there are accidents and negligence from those who have taken safety courses but it'll do some pretty bad damage if something goes wrong with someone who has never taken such a class. PR nightmare for hunters/gun owners. I hope it goes well and kudos to those getting others involved, I know not every person has the same opportunities/mentors like some of us who had fathers/grandfathers who passed the tradition of hunting down to us.


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

Its a good program as long as the mentor is an ethical hunter...I could see this teach some bad things to a new aspiring hunter if the mentor doesn't respect the forest/laws/rules.

But again I see this as an opportunity to get my wife a license and go hunting with her...or to take a friend/brother who doesn't have time to do the safety course. 

I already took a friend who has never hunted. We ran into a moose while out hunting for elk...overall it was a good experience to get out. I would suggest that if you do plan to do this you should put time into taking the person to the range so they know how to shoot and have basic rifle safety down. I took my friend to the archery range so he could learn to fling arrows. Last thing you want is the person carrying a rifle/shotgun behind you to have no idea about gun safety...


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