# Bump in Middle Provo Flows (And a rant!)



## HopperLover (Jul 7, 2008)

Heads up to anybody fishing the Middle Provo. There is now a MAJOR bump in the flows, if you didn't already know about it:

http://water1.cuwcd.com/rivers/FlowInfo.aspx?loc=mp

Releasing at 600+ cfs out of the dam, and the flows are up to 460 cfs below River Road Bridge.

It bugs me a bit, that this year was one of the worst drought years we have had in awhile, with snowpack being, what 50%? Now, this major bump in flows, without much thought to next year's (and beyond) water supply, should we have more dry years. Remember in 1998 or 1999, I think, after numerous wet years, the flows were high all summer long. Then came the 6-year drought, and people were second-guessing the wisdom to release all that water in the late 90s. It was similar on the Green River, if I remember correctly.

The point is, previous to this year, the Provo River drainage has been in a wet pattern, going back to Spring of 2005. Most, if not all of those years since then were wet years. So, despite this year's drought, high flows out of Jordanelle might seem justified, given the mostly wet pattern the past 8 years. But the same logic was used in the latter end of the 90s, and it was then a major regret that such high flows were released in the late 90s when along came a 6-year severe drought pattern extending up to 2004.

I am no mathematician, and no hydrologist, but it seems logical to me, that since 2005 (excluding this year) we have been in an extended wet pattern - it seems logical that numerous drought years are ahead of us, and high flows all summer long (should that remain in place) will be regretted should we have a lot of drought years ahead. It seems that drought patterns in Utah's history are common, and to be expected, and since there was a long wet pattern going back to 2005, while I am no statistician, it seems logical to me that numerous drought years (including this one) is a high probability for the next 5 years or more. In other words, they might regret high flows this summer.

Also, I seem to remember reading about the power generator at Jordanelle dam and how 600 cfs was needed to maximize it. :evil: (Correct me if wrong.) How convenient that 600 cfs is being released now. *Please tell me this isn't about power generation!!*

I wouldn't complain one bit if it wasn't such a severe dry year this past winter, and with a higher probability of a future drought pattern just around the corner.

Granted, fishing on the river is just about last on the list of water users' priorities. And so complaining about it won't do a bit of good.

Anyway, be prepared for higher flows if you plan on fishing the river. The fishing will still probably remain good regardless. I just hate us not conserving water after such a severe dry year.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm guessing irrigation, more than a month since the last measurable rainfall they are probably trying to keep water in canals to keep water for the crops. Just a guess.


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## DarKHorN (Mar 4, 2012)

Flyfishn247 said:


> I'm guessing irrigation, more than a month since the last measurable rainfall they are probably trying to keep water in canals to keep water for the crops. Just a guess.


Smart Man there


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## trout (Dec 25, 2007)

Are you mad about the water or mad that the bump came just as the drakes were about to cross 40? It was just a matter of time. No way they were going to rock 300 all summer.


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## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

HOLY Shish, you weren't kidding we stopped in Heber to gas up and get some lunch I figured since while we are there Id drop a line real quick.... :shock: We drove to the MP near Jordanelle Damm and and the water is raging.... Its almost like the run off was going strong. 

Keep an eye on your kids up there one slip and woosh there could be goners that water is scary fast.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

trout said:


> Are you mad about the water or mad that the bump came just as the drakes were about to cross 40? It was just a matter of time. No way they were going to rock 300 all summer.


They should lower it back down. Who cares if SL county has drinking water?


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## trout (Dec 25, 2007)

Ya, its funny we are thinking 600cfs is "raging," last year this week the MP was 1500cfs. I agree they should lower it back down. Has anyone asked CUWCD why? Or have an inside contact? It would be interesting to know.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I 'm not positive this is the case now, but in recent years past, they have done a planned "flush" of the Middle Provo (imitating a natural spring runoff) for habitat enhancement purposes.


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## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

trout said:


> Ya, its funny we are thinking 600cfs is "raging," last year this week the MP was 1500cfs. .


Last year we had a over then average winter creating huge runoff but if you think 600 cfg isn't raging. Go wade across a 600 cfg flow river Ill bet you money that you don't make to the other side without going for a swim.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

The higher water flush has nothing to do with runoff or irrigation. Just because of dry conditions, downstream end users are not alloted any more water rights. All end user water rights were being met with the previous lower flows. The higher water is a tool used by the CUWCD to control water quality in deer creek res. During extended hot, dry periods, deer creek has problems with algae growth and water quality deteriorates fast. If you've been on the lower Provo lately you have noticed the water is definitely off color. Dam managers combat this by raising the flows out of jordanelle and switching to a deeper penstock. This flushes cold clean water through the system to keep the algae bloom from getting out of hand in deer creek and posing a threat to the fisheries both in deer creek and the lower Provo. If left as is, dissolved oxygen levels could drop to dangerously low levels


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## HopperLover (Jul 7, 2008)

flyguy7 said:


> The higher water is a tool used by the CUWCD to control water quality in deer creek res. During extended hot, dry periods, deer creek has problems with algae growth and water quality deteriorates fast.


I didn't know that. However, why wasn't this done in previous hot and dry summers of drought years, such as 2002 or 2003? Probably because of the extended drought then, but when does Deer Creek water quality trump water storage?

http://tinyurl.com/83zshe6
http://tinyurl.com/6udq397

I am sure the reasons for this are logical, but I think it is fair to ask questions.

Also, how are the increased flows affecting Middle Provo River temperature? Anybody have a website that reports river temps? (And no, I am not interested in the Drake hatch in the upper reaches of the river - the yellow sally is much more interesting to me downstream!  )


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> The higher water flush has nothing to do with runoff or irrigation. Just because of dry conditions, downstream end users are not alloted any more water rights. All end user water rights were being met with the previous lower flows. The higher water is a tool used by the CUWCD to control water quality in deer creek res. During extended hot, dry periods, deer creek has problems with algae growth and water quality deteriorates fast. If you've been on the lower Provo lately you have noticed the water is definitely off color. Dam managers combat this by raising the flows out of jordanelle and switching to a deeper penstock. This flushes cold clean water through the system to keep the algae bloom from getting out of hand in deer creek and posing a threat to the fisheries both in deer creek and the lower Provo. If left as is, dissolved oxygen levels could drop to dangerously low levels


Trout and I were talking about this very thing yesterday. Good to know.


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## trout (Dec 25, 2007)

sinergy said:


> trout said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, its funny we are thinking 600cfs is "raging," last year this week the MP was 1500cfs. .
> ...


 Oh I understand, I was here last winter and spring. I actually waded it in 2 different spots today. It is high and you need to use extreme caution, but definitely fishable!


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## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

trout said:


> Oh I understand, I was here last winter and spring. I actually waded it in 2 different spots today. It is high and you need to use extreme caution, but definitely fish able!


Suuuuure the question is did you try crossing it ?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

sinergy said:


> trout said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I understand, I was here last winter and spring. I actually waded it in 2 different spots today. It is high and you need to use extreme caution, but definitely fish able!
> ...


Trout is a pimp. When he crosses the river it parts for him. Sasquatch once took a picture of him, and he once taught a one handed man to clap. He ties flies with pocket lint and spotted owl feathers.


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## trout (Dec 25, 2007)

Suuuuure the question is did you try crossing it ?[/quote]

wow....when i said waded i meant crossed, did it again today in a 3rd spot. I'm just saying that 600 is not that high considering what we experienced last year. I've also seen flyguy cross some seriously sketchy water.

Martymcfly can do a no handed clap... but it kind of hurts


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

martymcfly73 said:


> sinergy said:
> 
> 
> > trout said:
> ...


I can show you a perfectly "smashed rat" :mrgreen:


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## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

trout said:


> wow....when i said waded i meant crossed,


Awahah its all good I lost interest.

On a side note Ive been fishing the Middle Provo for the 3 days  Ill be out fishing the section near totems tommorow, if you feel up to it Ill show a section that runing at 500 cfs lets see if you dare wading across it    j/k.. we dont need floater in the MP but I will be out there if you want drop by and say hi


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

sinergy said:


> trout said:
> 
> 
> > wow....when i said waded i meant crossed,
> ...


The river doesn't want to be crossed by him, he has inside jokes with himself, and he speaks french in russian. Just to name a few :lol:


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## trout (Dec 25, 2007)

"totems" not familiar. Hope you've been getting a few. Ya trust me there are places I wouldn't cross at 200cfs. 

Speaking of the Middle...off topic though. Was fishing between cottonwood and lunker and have ran into the same guy from AZ 3 days in a row, we were talking bugs and what not when I saw a guide with 4 sports (bad form) and Said if you want to fish that run you better step in. So we parted ways and about 10 minutes later he came back with $50 and said the guide told him he'd give him 50 bucks to leave the hole. I thought that was pretty lame!


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

trout said:


> "totems" not familiar. Hope you've been getting a few. Ya trust me there are places I wouldn't cross at 200cfs.
> 
> Speaking of the Middle...off topic though. Was fishing between cottonwood and lunker and have ran into the same guy from AZ 3 days in a row, we were talking bugs and what not when I saw a guide with 4 sports (bad form) and Said if you want to fish that run you better step in. So we parted ways and about 10 minutes later he came back with $50 and said the guide told him he'd give him 50 bucks to leave the hole. I thought that was pretty lame!


Apparently that's the only hole the guide knows how to fish. Sounds like I need yo get up there. I'll stand in someones spot until they give me 50$. Now that I know its happening the price may have gone up.


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## trout (Dec 25, 2007)

Might not be a bad idea. We could get little real estate signs with flyers and everything. We could make a killing off lazy guides. "Lunker Lane" mountain views, easy access, big fish, dry flies, nymphs, room for multiple anglers. $75.00 call for a recorded message. The message would say: " If the flow is above 600 do not wade "


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

trout said:


> Might not be a bad idea. We could get little real estate signs with flyers and everything. We could make a killing off lazy guides. "Lunker Lane" mountain views, easy access, big fish, dry flies, nymphs, room for multiple anglers. $75.00 call for a recorded message. The message would say: " If the flow is above 600 do not wade "


75$ holds your hole, money back guarantee


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## ktowncamo (Aug 27, 2008)

sinergy said:


> Last year we had a over then average winter creating huge runoff but if you think 600 cfg isn't raging. Go wade across a 600 cfg flow river Ill bet you money that you don't make to the other side without going for a swim.


 Tried it, turned back after nearly going for a swim. I liked the east side of the river better anyway. :mrgreen: Fish were still hungry and I found a half dozen willing to grab the drake I was serving up!


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