# When will the rifle hunt exit the rut?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Next year..... the year after that..... the year after that?

It's such an obvious mistake to have the rifle hunt during the elks most vulnrable time. The bow hunt should be moved to around September 1-30, then muzzy from Oct 1-10, then finally the rifle from Oct 10-17 or something. The most deadly weapon should not be at the most vulnrable time, when will the DWR change this?


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I didn't think the elk were hurting any. I'm not opposed to the archery being moved to the rut but the elk are plenty thick. I do know archery tags would have more competition tho cause guys like me would start picking up a bow to hunt the rut. :smile:


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

utahgolf said:


> I didn't think the elk were hurting any. I'm not opposed to the archery being moved to the rut but the elk are plenty thick. I do know archery tags would have more competition tho cause guys like me would start picking up a bow to hunt the rut. :smile:


I don't think it is about the elk hurting or not. I don't see how it could be anyhow. The seasons should at the very least rotate. It would be nice to be able to hunt elk in the rut with a bow without having to wear hunter orange and hunt amongst those that are packing rifles.....


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

When will archery hunters stop asking for more perks? 

They sign up for a more challenging hunt and then complain when they realize its hard. 

Then we have to listen to all the B.S. about how ethical archers are and how they do not impact the herd. Everyone else is asked to bow down and make way for the puritans. 

Sorry to be so abrasive. To your credit 1 Deer, I think you are the first archer that has asked for equal treatment instead of a bonus. 

If the hunts were reversed, archers would complain that rifle hunters got such a long hunt.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

When will #1Deer stop stirring the crap?---SS


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## RoosterKiller (May 27, 2011)

Since most people wait until it snows and forces the elk down so they don't have to walk. I think the DWR has this factored this in and having the hunt start when there is no snow gives them more protection.If you waited longer more people would fill their tags. So I think the way it is now is great.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

provider said:


> When will archery hunters stop asking for more perks?
> 
> They sign up for a more challenging hunt and then complain when they realize its hard.
> 
> ...


Can't say that I have heard archers complaining that it is hard. Actually I hear more of them say the difficulty is one reason they (we) do it. We would just like an opportunity to hunt during the rut. Even if it is once every three years.

I don't think archers are any more ethical than rifle hunters. They are just cooler. Kind of like comparing Robinhood to Elmer Fudd.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Can't say that I have heard archers complaining that it is hard. Actually I hear more of them say the difficulty is one reason they (we) do it. We would just like an opportunity to hunt during the rut. Even if it is once every three years.
> 
> I don't think archers are any more ethical than rifle hunters. They are just cooler. Kind of like comparing Robinhood to Elmer Fudd.


no its more like comparing cowboys vs indians . we all know who came out on top of that. guns are way cooler. all kidding aside i can see it now . if they swapped it and put the rifle before the archery. alot of bowhunters would be whinning like little girls about how its unfair that the rifle hunters get first crack and kill all of the good animals. as a hunter of all seasons i enjoy doing the archery because the animals are far less spooked. so be careful what you wish for. hunting an animal with a bow after it has been chased all to hell might be a little more than you want


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Point being there are other ways to do it. Rotate some areas. Maybe have a choice that provides an area or two that allows the archers to hunt during the rut. Half of the Uintas perhaps and then rotate to another area? I just know that other states pull it off so Utah could do better in that department. There are in fact other states that have archery only units. Heaven forbid somebody think outside of the box though.

I own many guns. Guns are very cool but when it comes to hunting.....no comparison in my book. I have taken far more with a rifle than a bow so it is not like I can't see both sides of the fence. Given the choice I will bow hunt every time. It doesn't have to be one way or the other though.

The big bucks back the rifle. That is the simple fact of the matter. 

Archers know they have a slimmer chance of harvesting and do it anyways. It **** sure isn't because we get more time to hunt. Most guys still can take off no more than a week at a time during hunting season.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

Cant tell if everyone is being sarcastic or dead serious!!??


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

It will never happen in a rifle tard state that pads its pockets from conservation rut hunts


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

I have always wondered as well why the most wanted time slot to hunt elk goes to the rifle hunters in this state.. ( best time to hunt elk, easiest weapon to hunt with)

But I have always wondered why the dwr swapped the general muzzy elk and deer hunts from the dates back in the day, to the way they are now.. 
I have also wondered why the dwr has no elk hunts from sept. 13th to Oct 5th on the general "any bull" areas. When you have back to back hunts in the LE elk areas from Aug to November.
And you don't have to really answer my questions, I have heard every excuse from here to hell.. I am just being dumb. This state is just backwards..
And bows are much cooler!!
and I don't think I have ever met an archer looking for " special perks" or archers that complain.. I just don't want to look out of state year after year to experience the rut during archery season. ( like every other state).


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm torn on this issue. I grew up with a rifle in my hand and not a bow. I'm the first from my side of the family that really archery hunts (99% of the time I'm a solo hunter during archery season). I can see good reasons on all sides why it should stay and why it shouldn't. Why not get ALL the bull elk hunts out of the rut (this solution is kind of like cutting the baby in half). I don't like this solution, but whatever you guys do wait until I draw my any-weapon rut tag. I have 16 pts.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Bring this up when there is a reason to talk about it. What's next, free school lunches for the children of bow hunters? I guess the current welfare mentality that is ruining this nation is spreading into the hunting community.......class warfare and all. Soon, bow hunters will become a "protected status" and it will be a hate crime to make fun of them.-----SS


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

> Bring this up when there is a reason to talk about it. What's next, free school lunches for the children of bow hunters? I guess the current welfare mentality that is ruining this nation is spreading into the hunting community.......class warfare and all. Soon, bow hunters will become a "protected status" and it will be a hate crime to make fun of them.-----SS


Well SS I think any time is a good reason to talk about it. Change doesn't occur until it's forced down the DWR's gullet that real sportsman and hunters aren't happy with the current status of our wildlife and how they are managing a lot of them down the drain, while we stand by and pay more for tags, more fees, and more regulations. Why are rifle hunters so inclined to be hunting during the rut SS? Are they under a "protected status" here in Utah. They get more tags, and a more opportune time. Before you start yapping about bow hunters being a problem, why don't you think about why it's so important to you to make bow hunters look like the whiners when your sitting here bitching twice as hard about the thought of such a thing even being discussed. I hunt with what ever tag I draw or have, I don't a preference as to bow, rifle, or muzzy. Rifle is probably my favorite hunt. But a complete idiot can see you don't put the most deadly and accurate weapon, during a time when the bulls don't have a mind to think with.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

i was on the wasatch this past weekend and the elk were screaming all day..get off the computer and in the hills jeez j/k


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> Bring this up when there is a reason to talk about it. What's next, free school lunches for the children of bow hunters? I guess the current welfare mentality that is ruining this nation is spreading into the hunting community.......class warfare and all. Soon, bow hunters will become a "protected status" and it will be a hate crime to make fun of them.-----SS


It better be a hate crime!! I would play the victim card every second of every hour..

It seems this topic or some topic like this comes up every year at this same time when the elk are starting to become more vocal, and the archers are hunting their guts out trying to score an elk. 
And thinking today, its just less than 1 week away when the rifle guys will show up in their heated trailers, and fluffy pillows, and 4 wheelers, and their fires, and their camp chefs, and their orange jumpsuits, and their 30-06 Remington rifles, and their tasco spotting scopes, and their Walmart bought camo clothing to start scouting. Screwing everything up for the last week of the archery hunt. And then they get to stand around around a week later and listen for the loud, majestic bugle coming from a distant canyon and think to themselves.. 
"hmm that elk is way too far for me, I better go find a closer elk to hunt.. I want one right off the road because I hunt with a rifle.. duh-ta-dah.. on i go!!".

That's at least how I perceive the rifle hunters! Too cushy!!  
see I can keep going on and on.. Complaining constantly..


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## chipp (Nov 20, 2009)

For all the whiny archery guys on here you put in for the tag in January knowing the dates of you hunt and still put in. Your problem. If you want to hunt the peak of the rut that you whine about put in for an " any weapon " tag and shoot it with your bow. That if perfectly legal. There are only so many days during hunting season and if they put ml before archery and gave them a month then told archery people they get 8 there would be complaining about. You chose the weapon you hunt with no one else so don't complain about the dates none stop. And again the hunt during the peak of the rut is any weapon so archery equipment would be perfectly legal. Just remember that this January instead of complaining next September.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

utaharcheryhunter said:


> It better be a hate crime!! I would play the victim card every second of every hour..
> 
> It seems this topic or some topic like this comes up every year at this same time when the elk are starting to become more vocal, and the archers are hunting their guts out trying to score an elk.
> And thinking today, its just less than 1 week away when the rifle guys will show up in their heated trailers, and fluffy pillows, and 4 wheelers, and their fires, and their camp chefs, and their orange jumpsuits, and their 30-06 Remington rifles, and their tasco spotting scopes, and their Walmart bought camo clothing to start scouting. Screwing everything up for the last week of the archery hunt. And then they get to stand around around a week later and listen for the loud, majestic bugle coming from a distant canyon and think to themselves..
> ...


the funny thing about that. i seen just as many road hunting bowhunters this weekend as i do on the rifle. all of them claimed to arrow at least one deer. but never could find it. they all swore that they were hitting targets at 100 yards during there off season practice to.


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## GBell (Sep 2, 2013)

See my post on bonus points and waiting 
Periods in the other thread. After waiting 
For 20 years to draw a tag people are 
ENTITLED to a 400 inch bull that walks right
Up to the truck or ATV. If this doesn't go down
Like this the hunt sucks and tags need to be
Cut.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

utaharcheryhunter said:


> I have also wondered why the dwr has no elk hunts from sept. 13th to Oct 5th on the general "any bull" areas. When you have back to back hunts in the LE elk areas from Aug to November.


The youth elk hunt occurs on the general any bull units during these dates. I think this is a great option for the kids... they are absolutely alone on the mountain during one of the most prime times for elk hunting. The weather is nice, the scenery is spectacular, and bulls are bugling, there is no better way in my opinion to hook a young son/daughter on chasing big game! I think that this is one hunt that the DWR has right. I hope they NEVER change it, I have big plans to play guide for each of my 4 boys (and daughter if she so chooses) if they are fortunate enough to draw it.
I don't think the early rifle hunt will ever change... it's Utah's trump card: "Hey everyone, come hunt bull elk with your .30 magnum during the rut in Utah!"


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Hawkeye really struggled hunting rutting bulls. Tex really had the hardest hunt sitting for days to kill a sweet mature bull. Just saying, the hunt isn't going to change anytime soon, so go hunt and enjoy it for what it is. When I draw my archery tag, I hope I get to hunt Sept 1-15 or so.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Well SS I think any time is a good reason to talk about it. Change doesn't occur until it's forced down the DWR's gullet that real sportsman and hunters aren't happy with the current status of our wildlife and how they are managing a lot of them down the drain, while we stand by and pay more for tags, more fees, and more regulations. Why are rifle hunters so inclined to be hunting during the rut SS? Are they under a "protected status" here in Utah. They get more tags, and a more opportune time. Before you start yapping about bow hunters being a problem, why don't you think about why it's so important to you to make bow hunters look like the whiners when your sitting here bitching twice as hard about the thought of such a thing even being discussed. I hunt with what ever tag I draw or have, I don't a preference as to bow, rifle, or muzzy. Rifle is probably my favorite hunt. But a complete idiot can see you don't put the most deadly and accurate weapon, during a time when the bulls don't have a mind to think with.


Hence the reason why they limit the number of tags. These hunts are designed to have high success rates, that's why you have to wait so long to get a tag. Bow hunters get to hunt first, they have the extended season, and the get twice as long to hunt. Combine that with the fact that rifletards make up the overwhelming majority of hunters and even you can probably connect the dots. I also hunt with whatever I have a tag for and I think things are just fine the way they are. I am not in the pool, but don't think that guys who are should have the hunt that they have been waiting over a decade for changed. Especially when there is not biological reason to do so. Elk populations are high and stable and as long as they are I say bang away. Besides, I don't think you even care about half the dumb questions you post on here, you just like to be inflammatory.-----SS


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

hazmat said:


> the funny thing about that. i seen just as many road hunting bowhunters this weekend as i do on the rifle. all of them claimed to arrow at least one deer. but never could find it. they all swore that they were hitting targets at 100 yards during there off season practice to.


Do you know what those hunters are called? Fad-archers.. See they just switched over from rifle deer hunting this year, and they have a friend that told them to shoot at any thing that walks up to 150 yards.. But that's funny, I didn't see any road hunters let alone hunters this weekend.. Wait! That's because i was hunting miles from where I parked.. Ha!  But in all seriousness the archery trend is huge! I just wish the sportsman and outdoor channels would show how cool muzzleloader hunting can be.. So next year we can have a thread about how the muzzy hunters get sloppy seconds behind the rifle guys!! See we can come at you from all different directions!!


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Well SS I think any time is a good reason to talk about it. Change doesn't occur until it's forced down the DWR's gullet that real sportsman and hunters aren't happy with the current status of our wildlife and how they are managing a lot of them down the drain, while we stand by and pay more for tags, more fees, and more regulations. Why are rifle hunters so inclined to be hunting during the rut SS? Are they under a "protected status" here in Utah. They get more tags, and a more opportune time. Before you start yapping about bow hunters being a problem, why don't you think about why it's so important to you to make bow hunters look like the whiners when your sitting here bitching twice as hard about the thought of such a thing even being discussed. I hunt with what ever tag I draw or have, I don't a preference as to bow, rifle, or muzzy. Rifle is probably my favorite hunt. But a complete idiot can see you don't put the most deadly and accurate weapon, during a time when the bulls don't have a mind to think with.


Amen!!


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Enlighten us as to what a "real sportsman" is and how you came to represent them all.----SS


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

A few things to consider:

A. Most states do not have the rifle hunt in the peak of the rut, and certainly not on every LE unit in the state. I believe Arizona does it on a rotating basis. Many states offer the opportunity to chase elk during the rut with a bow. In Utah, that opportunity is limited to basically the last weekend of the season, with a few exceptions. 

B. There is no denying that rifle hunters outnumber bow hunters, but to say that only bow hunters are incessantly complaining is kinda hypocritical. Equal fault is shared on both sides, and most of the complaining is unwarranted. Shocker......bow and rifle hunters both wound and lose deer. Bow hunters are just close enough to see what they did.

C. To whoever said, you knew the season and still put in...........that doesn't mean that we have to be content with flaws in a system going forward. I may accept certain things about hunting regulations, seasons, etc. enough to put in for one year and enjoy the opportunity. That also doesn't preclude me from having a voice and seeking a compromise or benefit in the future. That's a pretty weak argument.

Ultimately, we all hike and hunt and fish in the same mountains, rivers and forest. I have friends that exclusively rifle hunt, and those like myself that primarily hunt with a bow. We don't complain to each other that the other is so lucky, but instead help each other out and take the opportunity to enjoy a different season in the hills. Maybe instead of this competition, we should realize we are all in this together and not dismiss a VALID biological and opportunity boosting issue as "just another whiny bow-hunter complaining again". If there is a biological or opportunity issue with the bow hunt, I would expect, and know for a fact that rifle hunters will bring up those issues as well.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

some of this stuff cracks me up. i dont get why guys limit themselves to one weapon then argue or think they are better than another sportsman because of it... to funny... me personally i like the challenges that all ANY WEAPON hunts provide rather its bow muzzy or rifle. like i said the elk are rutting now so go get one and post us some pics


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## ddhunter (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm not from around here but 100% agree about the season being delayed to September...it's to freakin' hot in August!


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## GBell (Sep 2, 2013)

Once these units finally come DOWN to their age classes you will
Start seeing tags dry up and the time to draw increase exponentially. 
By staying with high success, low opportunity form of hunting
Be prepared to see a 20 year wait in line go to 25 to 30. 
The beauty of the old AR-301 system was it took many hunters 
Out of the any weapon pool. 

We all bought in to a pyramid scheme and continue to cater
To it. If you think that any type of sensible management
Is going to take place, or there is a chance for change you prolly
Need to step away from the pipe.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

GBell said:


> Once these units finally come DOWN to their age classes you will
> Start seeing tags dry up and the time to draw increase exponentially.
> By staying with high success, low opportunity form of hunting
> Be prepared to see a 20 year wait in line go to 25 to 30.
> ...


Amen!


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## sk1 (Apr 7, 2013)

this forum is free entertainment, but for the record i do strongly disagree with the rifle rut hunt. i haven't looked at the data in a long time but it seemed like the average LE rifle hunt lasted a few hours(obvious exaggeration, but not by much)---wahoo. usually i tell myself after a rough day "hey it's hunting not killing", that seems more like "killing, not hunting".....but to each their own. flame on.


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

So here is a serious question for those of you who are insistant that the rifle hunt stay where it is. Do you really think it would hurt your chances at killing a big bull with a rifle the first weekend of October? (the same time as the general elk season)

Say the archers hunted until the 25th of September, them muzzleloaders hunt 7-8 days or about the first Thursday in October. The rifle guys could start the first weekend in October. Would that 2 week delay cause your success rate to drop off significantly? 



I think it would would not make one bit of difference in the success rates for rifles, but that's just my oppinion.

And I think we need to continue to "complain" and try to get the season dates changed up. Archery hunting in August sucks bad!!!! I like Idaho's plan that archery get 1 Sept.- 30 Sept., then start the gun hunts. I also think Utah should combine the rifle dee/elk hunts and the muzzleloader deer/elk hunts, so that guys can get either or both animals at the same time.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Elkoholic8 said:


> So here is a serious question for those of you who are insistant that the rifle hunt stay where it is. Do you really think it would hurt your chances at killing a big bull with a rifle the first weekend of October? (the same time as the general elk season)
> 
> Say the archers hunted until the 25th of September, them muzzleloaders hunt 7-8 days or about the first Thursday in October. The rifle guys could start the first weekend in October. Would that 2 week delay cause your success rate to drop off significantly?
> 
> ...


and combine the limited entry elk hunts with the spike hunters. ya that will never happen. lets complain enough to wear the rifle hunt is before the archery. that way all the bulls are taken before archery gets a crack at it. LIKE I SAY BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

hazmat said:


> and combine the limited entry elk hunts with the spike hunters. ya that will never happen. lets complain enough to wear the rifle hunt is before the archery. that way all the bulls are taken before archery gets a crack at it. LIKE I SAY BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR


Let's be realistic here.. Don't throw out that in some kind of twisted, wacked out scenario where a rifle season would EVER go before an archery season.. Be real!!
Even though, I have hunted the late archery season in Arizona which comes after the rifle elk season.. It is good!!


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

utaharcheryhunter said:


> Let's be realistic here.. Don't throw out that in some kind of twisted, wacked out scenario where a rifle season would EVER go before an archery season.. Be real!!
> Even though, I have hunted the late archery season in Arizona which comes after the rifle elk season.. It is good!!


the dwr is all about money... does anybody think they are going to piss off all of the rifle hunters. to please a few bowhunters. its a far fetched scenario I know. but what is not a far fetched scenario from our wonderful wildlife board. is a worse scenario for bowhunters shortened seasons youth rifle hunts going on at the same time. I wouldn't put it pass them


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## elkman (Sep 1, 2013)

I couldn't care less when they put the rifle hunt Aug. Sept. Oct. My 300rum can get it done. Since the topic of changing hunting seasons came up I just wonder if anybody besides me think it is chicken S..T to hunt animals on their winter range? ie late season hunts. If you think it is poor sportsmanship to hunt elk with a rifle when they cant think straight, do you think it is ethical to hunt them after they have ran themselves ragged by rutting and fighting for every bite of food they can get to keep enough fat to get them through the sub-zero night. Instead of recovering from the rut they have to evade more hunters for another 2 1/2 months.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Here's my suggestion. Have all hunts simply start one week later than they do now. That would give the LE archery guys a week of good rut activity. The rifle guys still get just as much rutting as do the muzzy guys. Bing, bam, boom! 8)


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

I could be on board with that.

Hazmat, I agree that no matter what happens the DWR will NEVER please every hunter! I am saying, that the DWR should re-think their season dates a little bit. It has been mentioned on here numerous times that the should change the tag alotments, therefore giving out more archery and muzzleloader tags without really increasing the harvest. That gets hunters through the system faster, and gets the DWR more money.

As for the original question, they will never get changed until all the high dollar hunters get bored with shooting huge elk on slam dunk hunts. There is too much money to be made on big antlers. 

Big antlers and big money will be the downfall to this sport, I guarantee it!!!


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## Kat3eWhit (Sep 6, 2013)

If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much room.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

> As for the original question, they will never get changed until all the high dollar hunters get bored with shooting huge elk on slam dunk hunts. There is too much money to be made on big antlers.


All the high dollar hunters hunt elk every year, but do it on private, not public, land.

I'm a rifle hunter that thinks Muleskinner's idea of rotating seasons is a fair idea. I don't mind the idea of rotating LE units to be archery only, but only on a limited basis. As Hazmat has noted there are some distinct advantages to hunting archery in Utah: longer seasons, shorter waiting periods to draw, etc.

The concept of having more archery and muzzy tags but fewer rifle tags would move more archery and muzzy hunters through the system, but causes an even greater problem for the rifle hunters. That doesn't strike me as terribly equitable.

I think it makes some sense to have the muzzy LE elk hunt before the rifle hunt, and at the same time the muzzy deer hunt is going on.

I think it's great to have this discussion. I wish the Wildlife Board was having it instead of us.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The way that Utah has their hunts set up is for the all mighty dollar in my opinion. There are other states that handle archery, muzzle loader, and rifle hunts without having a rifle hunt during the rut. Take Colorado, they have 5 different rifle hunts for elk each year starting the first of October combined with their 4 deer seasons. The do however put the muzzle loader hunt in the middle of the bow hunt which this year starts on 9/6

It would be quite simple for Utah to set up the same type of hunts but then they would loose money if they didn't keep the "Premium" elk hunt. The biggest problem that I see with it is what to do with the spike hunters on the LE hunt areas.


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