# Turkey



## ramrod (Apr 15, 2008)

I hope this is the right discussion forum for turkey I guess they are upland game? anyway two years ago I was lucky enough to draw a tag and I did Kill one after several trips in the woods. 
I did see a few other hunters to compete with but my hunt was enjoyable and I really had a good time. last year they doubled the number of tags and I was OK with it. next year there going to double the number of tags again. not sure if I want to put in for the 2009 season or not I have a bad feeling turkey hunting is going to end up like general season deer and elk hunting where birds will be to pressured and to spooked to hunt. every tom dick and harry in the woods trying to kill a bird. I tried to find the currant numbers for turkey populations in Utah the closest one I found was from 1/30/07 stated there where an estimated 18.000 birds in our state next year they plan on giving out 13.755 tags they say it's to give more hunters a chance to hunt turkeys. I think it.s an excuse for the state to make more money off of sportsman and to heck with an enjoyable hunt under reduced pressure. I quit hunting generale season deer and elk in Utah I'm afraid it's going to get to the point I wont be hunting turkeys in Utah ether 

the link I found the estimated turkey populations at 
http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/06-12/transplants.php

if anyone knows are currant numbers I would love to here from you


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I killed a nice turkey in 2001 up on Monte.You are right it will be just like gs deer and elk.Utah had a good thing going and now thay are going to ruin it.Instead of issuing all those permits on the spring hunt I would have liked to seen a fall hunt.The tactics on a fall hunt are totally different than the spring hunt almost makes it like your hunting a different critter.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Here are some facts boys.

Tom to hen ratio in Utah is 30 toms per 100 hens. Compare that to the national average of 12 toms per 100 hens.

Hunter success in Utah is at 35-40% Compare that to the national average of around 12%

Every year for that last three the tag numbers have gone up up by 50% yet these statistics stay the same! Bottom line is, this state can handle way more hunters without any stress on the flock. In fact, Only 16,000 people put in for turkeys each year. This year they plan on giving out a little over 13,000 tags. If the stats stay the same after this season,(and they will) the permits will go over the counter next year. That is the plan.

What will this mean? Simple. All the ninnies that think turkeys are a cinch to kill will go out and get discouraged with all the crowds driving wheelers everywhere. And they'll wonder why there are no birds willing to stand in the road and get shot at. All the stupid turkeys will be dead and the folks who are willing to HUNT them will go out and have a good time. We have just as many turkeys as Idaho and just as many people that want to hunt them. In Idaho you can buy two tags and the hunting is great every year.

Making it over the counter in Utah will NOT ruin the hunt! It will only mean that the average Utard with a wheeler and a shotgun will have to work a little harder to kill one.


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## str8shtr (Jul 4, 2008)

I agree with tex. The harder you work the more it pays off nuff said.


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## ramrod (Apr 15, 2008)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Here are some facts boys.
> 
> Tom to hen ratio in Utah is 30 toms per 100 hens. Compare that to the national average of 12 toms per 100 hens.
> 
> ...


 since you seem to know so much about utahs turkey population any idea how many birds are in are state now? I still am not sure if I want to put in or not.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

ramrod said:


> I still am not sure if I want to put in or not.


Put in! What do you have to lose? A few dollars, big deal. The hunt is what you make it. The goal when we started planting turkeys was to make it over the counter, Tex is right the tom:hen ratio is uncommonly high. I had a tag this last spring in the central region, there were a lot of hunters and yet I had a blast, killed a tom had a friend (sauve300) kill a tom, helped a 10 yr old kid kill his first (not last) tom. I have seen many toms this fall, and all those jakes from this spring will be toms. A turkey only lives so many years, and you only need around 10 toms per 100 hens to maintain/increase populations. This is one of the best success stories in hunting/conservation history in this state. It has created a ton of opportunity and allows kids the ability to get hooked on the sport of hunting in a low key setting.

Put in for a turkey tag, be grateful when you draw a tag, go out with a can't lose attitude, and enjoy the time chasing a worthy quarry.

Thank you SFW/NWTF for your efforts to assist make this possible. I was there when the first turkeys in Tooele County were released, to see turkeys everywhere in the foothills today is amazing!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

ramrod said:


> I still am not sure if I want to put in or not.


What do you really mean...you don't want to put in or you don't want to go turkey hunting?? 
I don't understand people that say they like to hunt but decide to not go hunting cause they think the DWR is mishandling the hunt or the wildlife, or they think they might see another hunter, or on and on and on or best of all, they think the DWR is just doing all this to make money! If you like to hunt, put in, and go hunting. There are birds out there just waiting for a guy that will hunt to find them. Geez, get a grip!


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm finaly going to use my point's" I've got 7, We get landowner permit's every year for
Nebo so I've just bought bonus point's. Any way, My wife and I have both had Phavant
"A" hunt tags in the past, realy good hunts.......But this deer season I was on Oak City
and this unit look's promising. I have not been there in the spring and was curious if 
anyone on this forum has hunted it and how it was?

Keep in mind, I already have 1 turkey with a bow and will not use a shotgun.

Any thoughts about the first "A" turkey hunt on Fillmore Oak creek out there?


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## ramrod (Apr 15, 2008)

BPturkeys said:


> ramrod said:
> 
> 
> > I still am not sure if I want to put in or not.
> ...


I decided to quit hunting general season deer and elk in Utah because after the first day the animals are so spooked it's hard for me to enjoy my hunt and my vacation. I put in for limited entry units in Utah and out of state hunts where I have a more enjoyable hunting experience. if there are plenty of turkeys and there not going to be hunted so hard that after the first day of the season a hunter just has to luck in to one or hopes another hunter will flush one there way then I may decide to hunt turkey but I get the feeling the state will turn the hunt into "a turkey shoot" instead of a hunt

still waiting for someone to give me the numbers of the currant turkey population in Utah. that will make me decide weather or not I want to hunt birds next year, if they want to issue so many tags I would have a 12% chance of killing one I don't think I would apply for a tag


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

ramrod said:


> BPturkeys said:
> 
> 
> > ramrod said:
> ...


You should go back east or the mid-west and hunt turkeys. There is soooo much pressure on those birds its not funny. Turkey hunting in UT so far has been...well...pretty **** easy. No pressure and lots of birds to be had. Once more guys get into the hills chasin them...just see how easy it becomes to kill a big adult tom.

It's gonna be fun!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, So I have 5 turkey points. Are they going to be worthless?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Ok, So I have 5 turkey points. Are they going to be worthless?


Not if you put in where we discussed earlier this year. 8)


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Alright, alright.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

For those that own property or have access to property it will be great however the poor schmucks who hunt public property will all be crowded together just like the gs deer and elk.We will end up with a turkey hunter behind every tree and the real scary part is you have to be camoed foot to toe to hunt them birds.I wonder how many guys will get stalked or shot at as they are making their cuts,clucks,or gobbles.But hey we will be in the woods with our weapons it doesn't matter if we hear or see let alone get a shot at the intended prey right?Oh well doesn't matter to me because I already got mine in 01. A nice 3 1/2 year old tom according to the biologist who aged him.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

ramrod said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > Here are some facts boys.
> ...


You know what, every year the NWTF puts out a forecast for the whole country and gives a state by state report on season dates, turkey numbers, hunter numbers and on and on. Every single state in the country posts up a number when it come to the amount of turkeys they have... Except Utard! I have no idea why we don't have a head count on our flock but I know we're covered up with them. We've got to be as rich with them as Wyoming and Idaho. :idea:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> I would have a 12% chance of killing one I don't think I would apply for a tag


coughcoughcoughcoughPussy!coughcoughcoughcough

The National average is 12%. In Utah it's more like 40%! I hunt turkeys every year in states that get the peewads hunted out of them and last year was the first time in 7 years that I didn't kill a bird. I'm no pro turkey hunter by any means, but if you get out and HUNT they really aren't that hard to kill. ESPECIALLY in this state!



> For those that own property or have access to property it will be great however the poor schmucks who hunt public property will all be crowded together just like the gs deer and elk.


Ya, you're right, Fish Lake, Pavahnt, Fillmore Oak Creek, The Lasals, Pine Valley, Boulders, Wasatch front, and San Juan are just teeny tiny little areas with Zero public land. :? :roll:


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

For those that own property or have access to property it will be great however the poor schmucks who hunt public property will all be crowded together just like the gs deer and elk.

Ya, you're right, Fish Lake, Pavahnt, Fillmore Oak Creek, The Lasals, Pine Valley, Boulders, Wasatch front, and San Juan are just teeny tiny little areas with Zero public land. 

I didn't say there wasn't any public ground to hunt.I should have clarified.The way it is trending it will end up just like the gs deer and elk hunts. The number of turkey tags verses deer is huge still.When the turkeys go over the counter however it will be a different story.Everybody that owns a shotgun or bow will be hunting them in the spring.That is why I would like to see the DNR implement a fall season before they go to an unlimited otc spring hunt.If I could hunt turkeys in the spring and fall otc I probably wouldn't hunt deer ever again in this state.I can see it now a guy does all his homework finding where a flock is roosting gets in the woods sets up sits in the cold for an hour or more it finally gets light the birds start flying down and you have got them working and here comes the typical super hero utard hunter stomping through the woods and he might even be a hundred yds or more away from your position but you know as well as I do it will throw them birds off and they will be gone and to top it off the idiot will probably be wearing white pants and have his blaze orange shell vest on. I am not worried about it for myself as I consistently harvest whatever I hunt. However I have to say that besides elk turkeys are probably the most challenging critter I have hunted and I look forward to being able to buy a permit otc and go kill some more.A question for you Tex-O-Bob you seem to be up on this stuff. Right now we have the rio grand and merriams but are there any plans to bring in any of the eastern bronzebacks or maybe some osceola like they have in Florida or do we not have the right habitat for those subspecies? Oh and by the way the meat you grilled at 22's was excellent.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> A question for you Tex-O-Bob you seem to be up on this stuff. Right now we have the rio grand and merriams but are there any plans to bring in any of the eastern bronzebacks or maybe some osceola like they have in Florida or do we not have the right habitat for those subspecies? Oh and by the way the meat you grilled at 22's was excellent.


Thanks, I aim to please. 

The habitat and terrain we have in UT is perfectly suited for the Mariums and the Rio. I'm not a turkey biologist but I think bringing in the other two subspecies would raise more problems than good. Right now we have both Rios and Mariums, and in some areas they inter mingle and cross breed. This produces a hybrid bird. (Nebraska is loaded with these hybrids) Places like the Boulders that USED to be strictly Mariums have now been all washed out with hybridization because of the introduction of Rios in close proximity. Right now the only place you can shoot a TRUE Mariums is in the LaSals. Other than that, it's WY, SD, Or MT. I think the last thing we need is to bring in Easterns and Osceola turkeys to further the muddy water.



> Everybody that owns a shotgun or bow will be hunting them in the spring.


May be, for the first little bit. Then, the folks that thought they could just go out and shoot one from their Wheeler, or thought that all they had to do was hide in the brush, yelp a little, and a tom would come strutting right in, are all gonna get real bummed and quit. Then all that will be left is that 12% that take hunting seriously. Those people will have a good hunt and kill their birds. :wink:


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I hunted turkeys with my dad last year. He had a permit, I didn't. Dad is getting older and isn't able to get to spots he once was. We hunted probably 6 or 7 times in different areas, mostly in places where we could walk a short, easy distance from the wheelers. We never saw another hunter the whole time. Dad wound up shooting a really nice Tom and had several opportunities to take smaller birds if had wanted to. While Northern Utah public access is mostly limited to the eastern side of the state, Central and Southern Utah has more places to hunt than one could ever travel. I'd say give turkey hunting a try. It's really fun!


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Thanks for the reply Tex-O-Bob.I didn't know about the cross breeding in light of that I would have to agree it would be a bad idea to bring other species in.That seems to be the way it works with pheasants and grouse.They get pounded on opening weekend and then very few hunt them after that.Yes you definitely have to know what you are doing to harvest a turkey. I hunted 3 weeks and finally killed mine on the last day of the hunt.There is a large learning curve on those birds.They are fairly easy to find but getting close enough to take one with a shotgun or bow is a whole other story.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> There is a large learning curve on those birds.They are fairly easy to find but getting close enough to take one with a shotgun or bow is a whole other story.


You mean it's HUNTING! What is the question/concern then? :? Since when is HUNTING supposed to be easy?


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> luv2fsh&hnt said:
> 
> 
> > There is a large learning curve on those birds.They are fairly easy to find but getting close enough to take one with a shotgun or bow is a whole other story.
> ...


No concern Pro. It is the challenge of matching wits with the critters in their element that keeps me going.Maybe thats not saying much for my mind especially when they have a brain smaller than a golfball. I just get irritated when I spend the time and effort to bring a hunt to a succesfull conclusion and some bozo screws it up. When I hunt I have a higher than average harvest rate while not an expert I am pretty good at it. The hunt is where the fun is I wouldn't even kill an animal if they didn't taste so good.The most disatisfying hunts I have ever had is when the kill came easy.It just seems something is lacking when it was just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. As a guide you spend inordinate amounts of time observing and patterning animals and from the sounds of things you do a fair amount of guiding on public ground. Do you not get irritated when you're guiding a paid client and here comes an Elmer Fudd with his 30-30 and launches a 500 yd shot at an animal,thus running the animal into the next county, you have been waching and patterning for your client for who knows how long?


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