# double taper vs. weight foward



## chuckmiester (Sep 9, 2007)

i am looking to get some new floating line but dont know what type to get. i have always used dt but hear good things about the wf. i am just wondering what the differences are and the pros and cons of each or which is better.

i know little about line styles except the shape so any help would be appreciated.

thanks


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Here is my take. I have always preferred WF. Smaller diameter, shoots through the smaller guides on my rods. Plus I can shoot the whole lone with little effort. Plus I fish stillwater and big rivers a lot.
All the magazines lately are in favor of DT. It is the 30' as compared to the 15' before the weight thing. Plus the reversible feature, and I will say, because of the 15' weight thing, they DO roll cast easier, specially with glass or boo. 
I felt I had to muscle DT more but lately (since the selective trout line) I am changing my feelings on it. 
WF might be easier to cast long distances, but I think DT is more accurate.

Just my take on it.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Double taper is generally for shorter, more accurate, soft touch casting. If you fish small dries in places that require a delicate presentation and short to medium length casts then DT is for you. Normally you would couple it with a slow or medium action light rod.

WF lines carry more energy out at the tip and load the rod better. This makes for improved distance, better wind cutting ability, and ease of throwing larger lint. The downside is that you sacrifice a little control, and it's easier to slap the fly down too hard if you are fishing small dries.

Either one can play in the world of the other with practice, but those are essentially the trade offs.


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## Rocki (Nov 10, 2007)

I started to write a couple paragraphs on the pros and cons of each, but this is a good article, and says it better than I could, so I posted it instead. Could be viewed as a little biased, but good information nonetheless.

http://www.flymartonline.com/modules.ph ... cle&sid=81


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## Tyson (Dec 27, 2007)

chuckmiester said:


> i am looking to get some new floating line but dont know what type to get. i have always used dt but hear good things about the wf. i am just wondering what the differences are and the pros and cons of each or which is better.
> 
> i know little about line styles except the shape so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> thanks


Chuckmiester,
Its a personal choice. I can tell you why I prefer DT for floating line. It simply makes all of the casts and mends I use in fishing moving water and its reversible so its 2 lines instead of one. I usually keep a fairly fixed length of line so I don't care whether its more shootable, slick, lubed, sharkskin or whatever.

To me, a WF line makes more sense if you are fishing flies on a retrieve. I would want a line to shoot well so I can keep getting the line back out quickly, at any distance I need for the next retrieve. In other words, sinking lines for streamers and stillwater fishing. Another good application of a WF line could be upstream dries because you might have to pick up a lot of line as it comes down at you, then get it back out if you don't get a take. Just my own thoughts , but there are so many WF lines with specialized heads and tapers its hard to generalize too much.

As far as what line is more delicate or what line can turn over big flies better, look at the front taper of the line (whether it is WF or DT). A longer front taper is more delicate but less powerful.

Tyson


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

I have always used DTF line. Last summer I tried to find a DT line and no one had any. I was told they had lost popularity, so they didn't stock them any more.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

I teach basic fly fishing classed and all of my students prefer WF over DT.
I let them cast with both and they always cast better and longer with WF lines. 
DT is good for short delicate casts, but you can use a WF and be almost as soft, when you know what you are doing.
Rods also effect your casting, so it's hard to do the apples to apples thing on this.
As James said, DT isn't used a lot anymore, but you can still get it at any good sporting goods store.


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## chuckmiester (Sep 9, 2007)

thanks for the replies guys. i think i will probably stick with dt because i mostly fish streams, small lakes, or from a toon and distance really doesn't matter much to me.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

For me, I fish DT on anything 5 wt and under, and wf on anything 6 wt and over. For our trout streams around here we are not casting long distances into the wind, throwing giant wind-resistant flies, or trying to shoot line as quick as possible so a weight forward line really isn't necessary unless you are stricktly nymphing with very heavy rigs.

Double taper lines land softer, roll cast better, have less memory, and can be flipped around when one end is worn out. What is not to like? Tune up on you casting stroke a bit and it is every bit as easy to cast as a weight forward.

If you must get a wf line but want advantages of a double taper, then get a line with a long front belly such as the S.A. Expert Distance or the Rio Windcutter. Both of these lines cast line a double taper inside 35 - 40 feet. Also, the Rio Selective Trout DT has a mini wf head at each end, giving a nice balance between wf and DT, and can still be flipped around when one end is worn out.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I've always fished DT floating line. It sounds like WF line is easier for beginners to cast because of the taper. Since I've never casted one I cannot really say. Maybe the WF is used in those long distance casting contests?


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

There a certainly places for both. I know on the South Fork of the Snake myt 6 wt is loaded with the Rio wind cutter.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

The Rio Wincutter (now the windcutter II) is a great, underrated line. In close it cast like a DT and when you get more line out it it shoots well, more like an aggressive wf.

It has a compund taper design. The front half of the taper is one weight lighter than specified and the rear taper is one weight heavier than the specified line weight.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2008)

One nice advantage of DT that hasn't been mentioned yet is that it lasts longer than WF because when one end gets worn you can just reverse it and use the other end effectively doubling the lifespan of your line. With the cost of high quality line being in $50 range and up that is a big benefit for cheapskates like me.


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

Is there anything special about the end of the fly line, or can you cut chuncks off the end and have it still work fine? Sometime when my line starts sinking I just cut a few feet off and then is seems to work fine again for awhile. I like the idea of taking it completely off and using the other side.


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

Guns and Flies said:


> Is there anything special about the end of the fly line, or can you cut chuncks off the end and have it still work fine? Sometime when my line starts sinking I just cut a few feet off and then is seems to work fine again for awhile. I like the idea of taking it completely off and using the other side.


I would imagine that a WF would be affected more by doing that than a DT line. Also the ends of the fly line seems to be the first place my line starts to crack. Removing a bit of the tip section can remove some cracks that have started to form and not let water in it, hence it floats better again.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> One nice advantage of DT that hasn't been mentioned yet is that it lasts longer than WF because when one end gets worn you can just reverse it and use the other end effectively doubling the lifespan of your line. With the cost of high quality line being in $50 range and up that is a big benefit for cheapskates like me.


No big deal but reread the posts. I found three previous posts where this was mentioned.


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## Tyson (Dec 27, 2007)

Guns and Flies said:


> Is there anything special about the end of the fly line, or can you cut chuncks off the end and have it still work fine? Sometime when my line starts sinking I just cut a few feet off and then is seems to work fine again for awhile.


Guns and Flies,
I used to do this as well. Turns out, whenever you mess with the front taper or the diameter of the tip, the performance is altered. The thicker the diameter of the tip of the fly line, and the shorter the front taper, the harder it is to make a soft landing on the cast.

Tyson


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## cacherinthewry (Dec 20, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Double taper lines land softer, roll cast better, have less memory, and can be flipped around when one end is worn out.


I don't buy that a DT has less memory than a WF. They're made with the same material. Can you explain?


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Dt lines have a thicker diameter throughout. all things being equal, the line with the thinner diameter will have more memory.


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## cacherinthewry (Dec 20, 2007)

I still don't agree. Fly lines are made with a core that is level through the lenght of the line. It's the coating that is tapered, and the coating is made of PVC, which has a tendency to "set" or coil. So, if the DT has a thicker overall coating, it has more of the material that is prone to storing memory.

In my opinion, there is no difference between WF & DT as far as memory is concerned. But I guess that is opinion as much as thinking a DT is easier or harder to cast than a WF.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

When I was a punk kid (now I'm just a punk) I used to buy the cheap "level" line. I didn't know any better. It worked just fine. I mostly fished down-and-acrosss wet flies on the swing so technique wasn't that critical. I think you can learn to cast about anything, given a little time and practice. Our grandpappys use to cast silk and gut. Any traditionalist want to try that again?


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

I have two spools for my 4 and 5 weight line (my 3 is always just dry fly fising and I don't really need anything bigger than a 5 for the fishing I do), one line for nymphing and one for dry flying. I usually will fish with nymphs and if I see something rising I will cut off the nymphs, reel in my line but the other spool on pull the line back through and tie on a dry (I can usually have it changed in less than 3 minutes). On my nymph spool I have 6.4 lb leader and on my dry spool I have 3.4 lb leader (I then match the tippet to the leader). How do you guys out there with one spool switch back and forth? I can imagine having 5lb and hope the fish do not see it when dry fly fising, changed the tippet each time you switch, or your better fisherman than I am and can consistenly land larger fish nymphing with 3.4 lb leader? So I imagine that with my nymph rig I can continue to cut off sections of the fly line as I am not worried about landing soft dries, but on my dry rigs I need to try and treat the line with flotant and eventually just take it all off and reverse it (and I imagine the taper reverses itself so the opposite side is again made to land soft) because cutting sections off will not allow high quality casting, and let it be know my casting needs all the help it can get. Maybe I am getting to technical and should just go fishing  .


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

You can go loop to loop and just have different leaders made up. You just pull out a new leader from the wallet and switch in about 30 seconds or less. Personally though 5X tippet is fine 90% of the time no matter nymphing or dry fly. That can change depending on fly size but still 90% of the time I think that holds true at least for me. But if I was constently changing from nymphing to dry fly then I would certainly go loop to loop and get a leader wallet and design the leaders I wanted for most of the situations I encounter.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Okay. Since we are on lines and such, may I ask a question (I'm raising my hand) about floating lines. I've noticed a lot of guys complain about the end of a floating line sinking while fishing dries. Mine do that all the time, but if I have a good drag free drift going and the fly stays up, what does it matter if the line sinks a little?


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## Mojo (Oct 2, 2007)

Supposedly the first 30' of DT and WF are identical. So why do some of you like the DT (which *I* like more than a WF) and some like WF. If the taper's the same for 30' and you fish the Provo or Weber you don't get much more that a 30' cast with leader.
The best thing I found is ignoring what the rod manufacturer says what weight of rod you're holding in your hand. Granted, if I have a 5w, I'll start with a 5w line. Now here's were the fun starts. Put a Rio Selective Trout on it and cast it, next try a Wulff TT, Cortland 444, both WF and DT's and the list goes on and on. I know most have very limited spare spools of floating line, but if you can beg, borrow or steal your buddies lines and just try different brand lines, then go different weights (a modern 5w rod can handle a line below and one above said weight) you'll be suprised at which line (brand) makes that rod come alive.
Remember the weight on the rod is only a guide to start with. 
Someone mentioned earlier about Windcutter II. If I remember correctly the WCII's first 15' is one weight lighter than the rated weight of the line. 6w line will have a 5 weight front taper.
Then you have Rio's Grand line is made specifically for fast action rods and the line is 1/2 size heavier than what's it's rated. 6w line is really a 6½w line.
Today there's not just the old DT or WF line. It's really getting specialized.
So in a nutshell, try as many different brand lines as you can- DT or WF and then make up your minds.
My favorite for smaller rods (4w and below) is a DT. Rio Selective Trout II. No memory, even in cold weather, loads graphite and glass and cane rods very easy. But that's because it suits my casting style.


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## chuckmiester (Sep 9, 2007)

if you have small flies or a hard time seeing your fly, then seeing the tip helps you locate it. also for me i have found if the tip is sinking in rivers it will usually pull the fly under


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Most of the fly lines now have built in welded loops. Don't cut the welded loop of and the end of the line and it stays sealed, keeping it floating much better. If you like to fish a butt section, then attatch a butt to the welded loop with a perfection knot and blood knot leaders onto the butt. This will help turnover.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

For those who use loops, do they get in the way when you reel in the excess line, hook your fly to the keeper, when moving through brush and trees?

And is it really true that DT and WF have the same tapere in the first 30' of line as mentioned in a previous post?


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## Tyson (Dec 27, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> And is it really true that DT and WF have the same tapere in the first 30' of line as mentioned in a previous post?


They may but most of the time probably not. If the box says WF or DT that by itself doesn't tell you much about the front taper design. Take a look at the specs on line manufacturer's web sites and you can see the variety of tapers available.

Maybe I am living in the stone ages but most of the lines I have do not come with loops. I just nail knot a short butt section of 30 lb mono, Maxima or Amnesia, and tie a perfection loop on the end for connecting the leader.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

If you tie a nail or needle knot and then put some five minute epoxy around the know, wouldn't that seal the end and help keep the core from soaking up water?


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> If you tie a nail or needle knot and then put some five minute epoxy around the know, wouldn't that seal the end and help keep the core from soaking up water?


It probably would, but the added extra weight of the epoxy could throw the balance of the line off and make casting a bit harder. It probably wouldn't make that much of a difference, but it could. Not a bad idea though. Nail polish might work too.

As far as your loop question on the end of the fly line, I like it. Haven't noticed any problems with it.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Coating the end of the line with the above mentioned glues will seal the end of it, but they are all hard glues that will cause a hinge when casting, hang up when pulling through the guides, and sink on the water. If you are going to coat your knots, use a pliable glue that will float such as pliobond. But by far the best glue for such a thing is Aquaseal. It works very well, and almost every angler has some. I use it when rigging albrights, triple nail loops, and biminis for sails and tarpon (of course for other people, not me) and even these big knots go through the guides without a hitch. Ive even used it to temporarily repair fly lines where the PVC coating has been damaged.

If you want to form a permanent loop on the end of your fly line without a butt section you can make a Whipped Loop. There are lots of sets of instructions on how to do so on the web. One advantage is if you use fluorescent thread (I like bright orange flymaster 210d) you can also have a bright strike indicator built into your line (such as on the new Rio and S.A. Nymph lines). Coat it in a very thin layer of Aquaseal and its almost as good as a factory welded loop.


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