# Fly Tying Thread



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

So I have been getting back into tying a little bit now that I found some spare time. I am tying mostly nymphs. What kind of thread should I be using? Eddie Robinson's in orem sold me some black 6/0 Danville unwaxed thread and I love it. I needed some more in some different colors like gray, olive and brown and visited sportsmans but they didn't have much and it really confused me on what to get. I use to always use unithread and that's what I ended up buying but after using the danville unwaxed thread I really liked that. Sportsmans didn't have unwaxed thread either so i got stuck buying waxed thread :evil: What do you use for nymphs and other wet flies? Also what's the difference between 6/0 and 8/0? I'm guessing the diameter and strength but which one is the best for nymphs?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Unless I am tying bigger bugs and using more rigid materials, I always opt for smaller threads. 8/0 for most nymph patterns under #14. If I'm tying smaller midges and micro-may patterns, I'll often opt for even finer thread.

Really, it comes down to personal preference. If you find you are breaking threads or not getting the desired build you are looking for, go bigger.


----------



## poiboy (Nov 18, 2010)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Unless I am tying bigger bugs and using more rigid materials, I always opt for smaller threads. 8/0 for most nymph patterns under #14. If I'm tying smaller midges and micro-may patterns, I'll often opt for even finer thread.
> 
> Really, it comes down to personal preference. If you find you are breaking threads or not getting the desired build you are looking for, go bigger.


I agree with you on the 8/0 for flies tied to a size 14 or smaller. Most flies I tie are nymphs in sizes 20-14 and so I use 8/0 thread (which is equivalent to 70 denier for Ultra Thread). Uni thread is my go-to thread, I like this best, but do use Ultra thread for some colors that aren't available from Uni.


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

On any fly, I find "less is more". Less dubbing, less collar on a wet fly/softhackle, etc.
Same with thread. I like 10/0 and Sheer 14. I prefer Uni though. That Danville 6/0 is a 70 denier, equal to the 8/0 Uni, that could be why you liked it.
By using smaller diameter thread leaves room for mistakes. I find you don't end up with huge heads or crowding the eye. You can make a few more wraps if you need to. Just don't pull as hard.


----------



## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Just a question to satisfy my curiosity:

Why the use of special threads? Wouldn't a fabric or a craft store be the spot to go for variety?


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Sewing thread can be used but it is not marked and rated the same as fly tying thread.
I don't have a chart for Coats & Clark, but the closest I have come would be GUTTERMANN
Guttermann Skala 360 and Tera 420 are the same, and here is the stats for that
TEX: 8 DENIER: unknown MATERIAL: Polyester MM DIAMETER: 0.09 THEORETICAL BREAKING STRENGTH: 394
UNI is 8 72 Polyester 0.09 425

So answer to the question, yes, but you will have to look for the right thread.


----------



## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

Most sewing threads are WAY too big.


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

6/0 is way to big imo for patterns smaller than size 12. I just find it to be bulky. I think it's great for beginners to use because it is harder to break, but flies will tend to be bulky and not look as good. Any dry fly should use 8/0 or smaller. 6/0 is ok on nymphs because they are bulky in general anyway. If you can teach yourself to use smaller threads your flies will look better. But the fish don't really care, so do what's best for you 

I almost exclusively use the UTC Ultra Thread 70 or 140. The 70 thread for all my smaller flies and the 140 for the larger flies. It's almost flossy and I love the way it can lie flat as you wind it. I just find it to be a cleaner thread to tie with than the usual 8/0 type threads.

It breaks a bit easier, but you get used to it.

The biggest benefit with using fly tying thread instead of sewing thread is how much tighter it wraps. Your flies will just look better and not be as bulky using fly tying thread. Fly tying thread is not expensive, so save yourself the trouble and use it.

There are plenty of colors to get the variety you need. I actually only tie with about 6-8 colors and that's it. If you try to match the colors of the threads perfectly to the fly or bugs you want to tie up, you will go crazy.


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> *If you find you are breaking threads* or not getting the desired build you are looking for, go bigger.


Or get a better bobbin. Often times cheaper bobbins will sheer the thread as you wrap it and break it. Spending the money on a decent bobbin saves a lot of frustrations. It's one of the most important pieces of equipment when it comes to fly tying.


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

RnF said:


> I almost exclusively use the UTC Ultra Thread 70 or 140. The 70 thread for all my smaller flies and the 140 for the larger flies. It's almost flossy and I love the way it can lie flat as you wind it. I just find it to be a cleaner thread to tie with than the usual 8/0 type threads.


RnF as I said before, people do not know what sewing thread to look for. The reason your UTC is flossy like is it is Nylon where most others are Polyester.

But, next time you are in say JoAnns, take a look at the Guttermann Skala 360 & the Tera 420, they are exactly the same diameter as your UTC70, but stronger. And as for your 140 it is in a class of it's own, with the closest runner up being Gubebrod 6/0 which is 0.01 smaller diameter, but also 26 gram weaker, but it too is Nylon.

However, diameter wise, you can still stay at JoAnns and go with the Guttermann Tera 180. It is 0.01 smaller diameter, but it is weaker, so don't pull as hard.

Just some other options for you all.

And 100% on the bobbin. DO NOT skimp. I use nothing but ceramic, but there are also teflon coated ones.


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

I will have to check out that thread next time I am in there. Thanks.


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

All in all, fly tying is the best choice and might be a better value in the long run.
Just saying it is another option.


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

I agree, sewing thread is actually quite expensive.


----------



## sinergy (Mar 6, 2008)

Depending on the fly you can use sewing thread 

If you have an interest in tying midges, check out Don Holbrook and Ed Koch's book, Midge Magic, which suggests a whole range of methods for tying midges carefully matched to your local waters, tied with a variety of fly fishing, sewing, and embroidery threads.

Andy Kim, a San Juan River guide, also uses sewing thread for some of his midges. Goggle Rick Takahashi's description of tying Andy's Yong Special.

but to add to what has already been said allot of sewing thread is cotton were as majority of fly tying thread is polyester or nylon. Cotton does not have the strength of Nylon nor the longevity but I guess if the fish really hammer your fly they all start falling apart. 

I bought a few spools of sewing thread to tie up some nymph patterns the larger diameter makes for a nice textured thorax it almost gives a ribbed look but its pain in the arse to tie with, the un-waxed thread takes some work to lay flat and the ends start to fray. 

Better to use the right tools for the job use fly tying thread...


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

I am glad you brought that up. I was going to come back with this. Thread is great for the bodies. I have that Midge Magic and have tried a bunch of those flies. The little travel threads are great too. Embrodery floss 
But they are more a material so to speak. They are used instead of dubbing or chenille, like beads too. But, to TIE with as in attaching the dubbing or chenille or feathers, does require a small diameter thread.

And there is mention of FLAT thread, that is where floss is quicker and easier. We have all got a little spoiled with tying and companys are there at our every wishes.


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

sinergy said:


> Depending on the fly you can use sewing thread
> 
> If you have an interest in tying midges, check out Don Holbrook and Ed Koch's book, Midge Magic, which suggests a whole range of methods for tying midges carefully matched to your local waters, tied with a variety of fly fishing, sewing, and embroidery threads.
> 
> ...


[attachment=0:2r3olniv]Diamond Midge_Black.jpg[/attachment:2r3olniv]

This is a fly I have been using for about 4 or 5 years, it's great for the Middle Provo. I use threads for bodies all the time, I even use yarn. That stuff makes great stone fly bodies  So yea, there are lots of uses for sewing thread, but as Madonafly states, it isn't great for actually using for dubbing, or attaching other materials to the hook.


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

What a killer pattern!!!!


----------



## kochanut (Jan 10, 2010)

man RnF that fly is so hot it makes my nipplers hard (notice my pun!!!)


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks,

The thread for the body is Mettler Sewing thread color #706, the tinsel is Medium Holographic and the head is 8/0 black, I also cement the entire fly to keep it all together. Super easy pattern to tie and can be quite affective at times.


----------



## kochanut (Jan 10, 2010)

i have been struggling with tube flies over here on my down time. the Army looks at my desk and thinks im some form of a mad scientist because i have my vise onb it lol


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

kochanut said:


> i have been struggling with tube flies over here on my down time. the Army looks at my desk and thinks im some form of a mad scientist because i have my vise onb it lol


Now if you had this vise.......









:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## kochanut (Jan 10, 2010)

that vise is 200 bucks at that website i showed, with both the midge and standard head, im thinking about getting one


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Cool Vise...sticks to a car windshield really well...LOL and the heads are totally adjustable. I use it in the shows.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

RnF said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> > *If you find you are breaking threads* or not getting the desired build you are looking for, go bigger.
> ...


I certainly agree, I love ceramic or at a minimum a fatter, rounded edge bobbin, but I figured someone asking this question might have a beginner type set up that usually has a cheaper "kit" bobbin that tend to be not very user friendly.

I like to typically use the smallest thread I can, but on larger hair bugs, such as large stone flies and attractors, I like to have the control of thicker thread. I don't typically worry too much about build up on a size 4 Salmon fly pattern or big streamers.

That's a wild vice in the last picture I may have to check out some of the newer gear, I've tied on my old Dynaking for the last 14 years and haven't had a reason to change, though I always catch flack from guys that love rotary vises. Same goes with fishing with Granny's old true temper rod.

Most of the time, I probably only use 6-8 different threads. On flies 16 and up, I typically use Gudebrod waxed 14/0, either rust, Olive or dun. I'm not sure they even make it anymore. Every now and again I'll fiddle with different underbody colors on dubbed nymphs. I like to tie them up and then get them wet to see what the color combinations look like. Sometimes I'll wrap different flash or tinsel in the underbody, use dry fly dubbing on nymphs.

It really is a personal preference thing, just like any other facet of fly fishing, there's 1000 ways to expose the inside of the feline. The biggest thing I've told folks when they sit down to tie flies for the first time is to not limit themselves and be creative. Staying inside the box will make it a mundane process in short time. Even when I'm tying production for a big trip, or to replenish my boxes, I'll still break it up with a random new fly or variation of an old one to keep myself interested.

Oh yeah, we were talking about thread.......


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

When I need new thread, I really don't look at the sizing at all. I'll first find the color I need, and then I'll check each spool,pull out a little thread, look at it, test its strength, pull it, twist it, etc..... Keeping in mind the fly I'm going to tie, and the size of that fly. As a rule, I go with the finest diameter I can get away with. Over time, I've built a pretty good thread collection, so most anything I want to tie, I am set up for. But I've found that two spools of the "same" thread are not always the same. So just as I'll select the elk hair patch or hackle neck or saddle, I'll select the thread.


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

PS. Don't you just love fly tying season? I need to get my station set up again. Its been too long since I tied some flies. Too long.


----------



## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

haha, I bet. I haven't ever tied any tube flies, but it intrigues me. Maybe I will attempt them this year. Aren't the tubes rather pricey?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

RnF said:


> haha, I bet. I haven't ever tied any tube flies, but it intrigues me. Maybe I will attempt them this year. Aren't the tubes rather pricey?


Compared to a pinch of dubbing, tinsel and hackle, yes.


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

I am thinking of trying them the cheap way first using Q-Tips tube No rubber tubing for the hook yet but I will figure something out. I think this like anything else can be as inexpensive or as expensive as one wants.


----------



## Frito (Feb 29, 2008)

kochanut said:


> that vise is 200 bucks at that website i showed, with both the midge and standard head, im thinking about getting one


IMO, having "tried" to tie on that vise, it's one of the worst I've ever used -- and I've tied on a good majority of the mainstream vises out there. I liked their idea with the adjustments and the fancy suction deal, but it's just a lot of fancy and not a lot of practicality. The rotary feature (if you can really even call it that), is poorly designed and works against you, requiring you to loosen/tighten it as you go. Having the two heads is a novelty, but I'd rather have one head that can hold more of a variety of hooks. Also, if you tie a lot (again, I really tried on this thing), it takes way longer to position and release hooks with the jaws that you end up wasting a lot of time. Plus, I found that for the effort, you really had to work at getting the hooks securely fastened. Oh, and one final note, their method of "Pulling" the hook back into the jaws to secure it (on the bigger jaws), actually damaged more hooks than I care to damage. Hooks that weren't your standard hook bend shape, got eaten alive by those things.

However, it does make a decent fly drying or painting holder for me and has a spot on my shelf.

Sorry to bag on it and I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. I tie a LOT of flies and I honestly really tried to use this thing. Just doesn't pass the muster. FWIW, I've got about the same negative review from people I consider very good tyers who tie a lot and refuse to put the metal to these things.

Also, for the price, you can get a much better vise from Griffin, Renzetti, Regal, Dynaking etc.

PS, sorry for the hijack. Carry on...


----------



## kochanut (Jan 10, 2010)

thanks for the heads up, ill keep looking around


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Butt for every seat...;-)


----------



## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

I agree with frito. More of a novelty than anything. I settled on the dyna king barricuda jr several years back. The jaws on a regal crumble like a cracker and the renzetti vises just aren't made as well with lots of rubber and plastic pieces. The Griffin montana mongoose has a great big head with no small fly access and finicky adjustment set screws. 

As far as tubes go, once you start tying your streamers on them, you won't ever go back. Tube flies put the hook at the very back of the fly which sticks the tire kickers and tail grabbers you otherwise miss on traditional streamer hooks. It also allows you to fish short shank hooks (my fav is the gamakatsu b10s) which are harder to throw than a long shank streamer hook such as a TMC 300 or 9394. The long shank acts as a lever and the fish seem to throw them much easier than a shorter shank hook. The last advantage to tubes is you can set your hook to run upside down. This makes it nearly snagproof and hooks the fish in the harder top part of the mouth.


----------



## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

I have been using the Renzetti for probably 20 years. Replaced the O ring once. what plastic parts?
And as far as the Vosseler, I do use it and have no problems at all. I made a bobbin holder out of a coat hanger that works great. Loosen one nut and it is indeed a rotary.
I don't consider it a novelty at all, but I like technology.......;-) I really like the hole for bigger hooks...


----------

