# Stopping a grizz charge?



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Since grizzlies have been expanding in numbers and territories lately, I have seen a lot of discussions about grizzly attacks and debates over whether bear spray or a firearm is more effective. Even with all the evidence and studies coming out that bear spray is generally more effective at preventing attacks than firearms, it seems that a lot of guys seem to think that spray is just some feel good, animal-friendly hippie nonsense that will be relatively useless on a bear. These same guys think that as long as they have their prosthetic manhood (aka their firearm) that old Mr. Grizz will be in big trouble. I think a lot of these Cletus's and Billy Bob's are greatly over estimating their abilities at keeping their composure while being fast enough to draw a weapon and hit a quickly moving target that is going to be all over them in a very brief moment.

What do you think the odds are of the average Joe with average skills and average balls being able to stop a grizzly charge with a firearm? I'm thinking most of us would be lucky just to crap our pants, fire a John Wayne shot into the dirt, and curl up into a ball playing possum while we kiss our arses goodbye!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm pretty sure I would be bear $hit.-O,-


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I might not be able to get a good shot off during the charge but I bet I could get a few off while it was on top of me before I was killed. 

Many people actually live through maulings. If I were one of those lucky ones, I would be unloading 16 rounds at anything furry during the process. My 10MM is loaded with Ultimate Penetrator rounds so I am confident that my slugs would go very deep at point blank regardless of bone/muscle mass. 

Not the best scenario, but makes me feel better about it. Unfortunately, my trip into big bear country this year is off the table so it is fairly unlikely that I will get to provide any real data for this hypothetical.-------SS


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I agree with Fowlmouth, but then I have also heard that the bear would use the bear spray as a condiment. 

I consider myself a pretty good pistol shot even under pressure, but stopping a bear with one or two shots I don't know. 

When I was up in British Colombia on a grizzly hunt my guide had a double action 44 mag in a shoulder holster. I asked him what his plan was if a bear should attack him. He told me that he planned on sticking the barrel of that pistol into the bears mouth and pulling the trigger 6 times. 

I did see a show one time on the effectiveness of bear spray and it came out way ahead of someone trying to use a pistol. But neither of them are a 100% thing.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*I prefer bear spray*

I seen a number of grizzly bears on my once-in-a-lifetime ill-fated WY sheep hunt that ruined me mentally and financially. After 5 days of hunting on horseback we didn't have one horse left that didn't have a broken bone or a torn tendon so we walked. After a coupla hours we ran into a big boar grizzly coming thru the burnt timber headed for the guide and I. So I got my rifle and the guide's got his 44 Mag S&W 629. I point my rifle at the bear and the guide pushes my gun barrel down and pulls me in behind him. Looking back that made sense, he'd seen me shoot before. Anyway, I'm paying this guy thousands of dollars, actually tens of thousands of dollars, to keep me from getting eaten by a bear so I'm not carrying any bear spray (savin' $30 and 20 oz of weight too) And it was money well spent, the bear stopped a short distance away from us, sniffed the air, then ambled off.

The same week one of the outfitter's deer hunting parties got charged by a grizz and the guide pepper-sprayed the bear away. All of the deer hunters were from New Jersey and their version of the event, after chugging down a case of beer, was just delightful.

Helpful hint:
Uh...sittin on top of a farm animal yer looking down at a grizzly bear. This puts you at an advantage just long enough to turn the bear away before the horse bucks you off.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*8 days? maybe 8 nights, can't remember now*

Five of us walked across Yellowstone National Park back when carrying in the Park was illegal. (I wouldn't carry anyway, pepper spray is lighter and proven to be more effective than a firearm) All of us carried a can of pepper spray as required by the Park Service.

We never seen one bear, 8 days of hiking. So there, the pepper spray worked good.

.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> Five of us walked across Yellowstone National Park back when carrying in the Park was illegal. (I wouldn't carry anyway, pepper spray is lighter and proven to be more effective than a firearm) All of us carried a can of pepper spray as required by the Park Service.
> 
> We never seen one bear, 8 days of hiking. So there, the pepper spray worked good.
> 
> .


Can't argue with results. The pepper spray was so effective those bears wouldn't even allow themselves to be within eyesight of you. On your sheep hunt the bear had enough of a lack of respect for your firearms that it still came very close to you before busting out of the country. Case closed.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ask Packout about grizzly charges.... :mrgreen:


-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

If I was going into grizzly county I'd do like the backcountry Russian fishing guides and have my SKS with a 30 round magazine loaded with FMJ and HP


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I hear .22-250's are a good choice for Grizzlys...


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> .......................................... On your sheep hunt the bear had enough of a lack of respect for your firearms that it still came very close to you before busting out of the country...........................


I'm thinkin' the bear seen me and busted out laughing.

.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/01/alaska-boy-11-shoots-bear-charging-fishing-party.html


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't know anything about grizzly bear charges. I do know a bit about Brown Bear charges...... haha

I found the best deterrent to Brown Bear charges is a variation of little girl screams and shrill sounds. The bears seemed to be confused as to why a tween girl would be alone in the Alaska rain forest. Brown bears run fast......


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Can't you just take their credit card away from them to keep them from charging?


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Packout said:


> I don't know anything about grizzly bear charges. I do know a bit about Brown Bear charges...... haha
> 
> I found the best deterrent to Brown Bear charges is a variation of little girl screams and shrill sounds. The bears seemed to be confused as to why a tween girl would be alone in the Alaska rain forest. Brown bears run fast......


Brown bears are INCREDIBLY fast!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Seems like with the big bears, if they make it through the spray...your dead! If they don't drop at your feet with that first or second shot...your dead! You can't out run 'em, you can't out muscle 'em, you're sure as hell ain't going to stop 'em with your knife(like in the movies) so I wonder about the effectiveness of any of that stuff...if he wants you bad enough...your dead!
This advise from someone that has zero experience with bears except those few "bear charge" YouTube videos I like to watch and fantasize about. Must admit, the "Cape Buffalo charge" videos seem a little more frighting to me. Ok, the caffeine is starting wear off, back to the coffee pot to recharge...later.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Pepper spray is super effective for a "menacing" bear. One that is advancing, popping his jaws, stomping his front feet, huffing and walking purposely and quickly towards you. 
A full-on charge is a "whole nuther" story. One of you is going to die (or be terribly effed up in the end). You better have a gun.
Just my opinion based on being involved in three DLP and countless encounters with brown bears and one black bear on Kuiu island.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Im going with what Longbow says. I think I'll have a gun and a buddy with a gun when I make my trip up north. Seems like a buddy would be your best bet. As scary as they are, they can't charge in two places at once. I'm not sure how well I could shoot with a bear charging me. I bet I could shoot pretty straight at a bear charging my buddy. Another bonus is that these shots would likely be from a high powered rifle.

That's my plan. What fun would Alaska be if there was no chance you could die in a plane crash or be eaten by a bear? I bet the plane crash is more likely to happen.-----SS


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## trackerputnam (Dec 21, 2014)

I believe the last grizzly killed in Colorado was by an outfitter who was guiding a bow hunter for deer or elk. Can't remember which. Anyway the guide was charged and knocked to the ground with only part of an arrow left in his hand. While he was being mauled, he was using the few inches of arrow and broad head he had to stab the bear over and over. Finally the bear quit the attack and wondered away to die not far away from the repeated stabs by the outfitter. The outfitter spent more than six months in the hospital recovering from his wounds, all the time under investigation by the fish and wildlife service for killing a protected species that had at the time thought to be extinct in Colorado. The talk was that likely the bear attacked after being hit with an arrow from the guides bow. But after the nercropsy, it was determined that none of the 42 wounds inflicted by the outfitter, none were deeper than 4 inches. So in this case a few inches of arrow and a broad head were good enough. 

I think when the crap hits the fan, I want something with a Big Bang in my hands. And maybe a few inches of arrow and a broad head as backup. Some spicy juice in a can, just don't excite me much. 

I have had two critters decide I needed to die so that they could live, and I functioned accurately and calmly during the events. I also had a near death situation of my son and was able to function as needed to rectify the situation. Its the next day when you think about it that the shakes and tears come. At least in myself.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bella Twin would be laughing at this thread. 8)


-DallanC


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

A slow friend is more effective than pepper spray or gun any day. :grin:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

backcountry said:


> A slow friend is more effective than pepper spray or gun any day. :grin:


I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of that joke.

Just gotta outrun your buddy right?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bax* said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of that joke.
> 
> Just gotta outrun your buddy right?


That's what I tell my grandson all the time and he tells me "hey old man I can outrun you backwards"...and I tell him that he can't run very fast when I trip him and he's laying on the ground....he thinks I'm serious LOL.

I have a good friend who's dad is a fishing guide in Alaska. He always carried a 12 gauge pump with 5 slugs in it. He's shouldered it a few times but never had to fire it. A year ago my friend bought his dad an SKS and he carries that now.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Not breaking any news here, but studies have shown pretty clearly that bear spray is a much better deterrent than a firearm. It has been a while since I have reviewed those, so I don't remember which one was which. I know there have been studies out of Montana with close grizz encounters/attacks, and also Alaska. 

The biggest problem with bear spray is that too many hikers/hunters keep it in their pack. If it's in your pack, you might as well not be carrying it. I have been guilty of this myself. I changed how I did things several years ago when I was fishing the back country of Yellowstone and came across a carcass that still had wet blood on the bones as we were walking along the river. Talk about feeling small and helpless! My spray was in my backpack, but came out quickly and no longer goes in my backpack when in grizzly country. 

My preference would be to carry both spray and a firearm. The bear spray would be used in an attempt to stop the charge and prevent an attack. The firearm would be used in a last ditch effort to save my life if the bear spray didn't work and we were now dealing with the actual attack. But spray, when used, has shown to be very effective at preventing the attack. Not perfect, but the only perfect deterrent is not going into bear country at all.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I have my doubts that a guy could discharge the spray AND shoot a bear if the spray didn't stop it-- that is if the bear is charging. They are just too fast. I could barley shoulder my gun as the bear closed 60 yards. No way could I have sprayed and prepped to shoot. No doubt spray is effective in the right circumstance-- but everyone should read Longgun's post above. 

And spray can be tough on the "sprayer" as many times they become the "sprayee". I hear first hand accounts of guys who sprayed at a bear, only to have the mist blow back into their face. It takes a long while for the symptoms to subside and is very painful. My thoughts are don't spray if you are down wind. haha


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Bear spray is some nasty stuff. We were bow hunting a few years ago and driving up a rough road when one of the canisters got knocked around and started to leak. We could taste it first, then the eyes and skin started burning, then we couldn't breathe. I can't imagine taking a full shot of that stuff to the face. I'm sure it is a good deterrent for bears.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> Not breaking any news here, but studies have shown pretty clearly that bear spray is a much better deterrent than a firearm. It has been a while since I have reviewed those, so I don't remember which one was which. I know there have been studies out of Montana with close grizz encounters/attacks, and also Alaska.
> 
> The biggest problem with bear spray is that too many hikers/hunters keep it in their pack. If it's in your pack, you might as well not be carrying it. I have been guilty of this myself. I changed how I did things several years ago when I was fishing the back country of Yellowstone and came across a carcass that still had wet blood on the bones as we were walking along the river. Talk about feeling small and helpless! My spray was in my backpack, but came out quickly and no longer goes in my backpack when in grizzly country.
> 
> My preference would be to carry both spray and a firearm. The bear spray would be used in an attempt to stop the charge and prevent an attack. The firearm would be used in a last ditch effort to save my life if the bear spray didn't work and we were now dealing with the actual attack. But spray, when used, has shown to be very effective at preventing the attack. Not perfect, but the only perfect deterrent is not going into bear country at all.


Don't forget, if you use bear spray on a bear, you are going to get a fair dose of spray yourself. It might immobilize you too. My son and I were guiding a bear hunter who wounded a bear. The bear death-charged us. My son and I shot our rifles at the same time as the client shot off his bear spray. The whole area was enveloped with a mist of spray. If we hadn't both shot it in the chest and dumped it 10 feet in front of us, we wouldn't have been able to get off another shot.
I've also sprayed a few other menacing brown bears and each time I've been effected by the spray too. 
A bear's death-charge is fast and furious. You won't have time to use your spray, assess it's effects and switch to a firearm if it didn't stop the bear.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't believe that bear spray would be effective at all on a bear that has been shot and wounded and is intent on taking you with him to the happy hunting grounds. He would be so full of adrenaline that the spray would be no more than like water out of a squirt gun. 

Overall it would be a hard choice. Do you use a spray and hope that it stops the bear or do you use a firearm and hope that you kill him with the first shot?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You are absolutely correct. I did not mean to imply that I think I'll get to spray and then assess the situation. The sidearm would be that the spray didn't work, and I'm actually being attacked. At that point, the last ditch effort would be to try and get the gun. 

Of course, that is not universal to every bear encounter. I don't bear hunt, so the situation you described of searching out a wounded bear wouldn't really play out for me. I would handle that situation you described exactly as you did. I would not be seeking out a wounded bear on a bear hunt with a can of bear spray in my hand. 

The reality is this: in my type of possible grizzly bear encounters, I would be backpacking or backcountry fishing if I ever encountered one. So having a high powered rifle shouldered is not even a possibility. Best case scenario is bear spray or a hand gun. Given the choice on an every day bear encounter while hiking/fishing, I'm reaching for the bear spray first 10 out of 10 times. If that doesn't work, I'm going to need more help than I can give myself, even if I am miraculously able to get the hand gun out after the attack commences. No doubt, that would be a precarious situation. Lord help me if that ever happens!!!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Do you guys watch Alaska State Troopers? The Troopers carry shotguns with slugs when venturing out in bear country. They also use shotguns to dispatch wounded big game animals. Never see them with a can of bear spray hanging on their side.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*If you sit on your ass and do nothing but surf the net the bears won't bother you.*



LostLouisianian said:


> ................................
> 
> I have a good friend who's dad is a fishing guide in Alaska. He always carried a 12 gauge pump with 5 slugs in it. He's shouldered it a few times but never had to fire it..........................................


The guide I had on my once-in-a-lifetime, super-expensive, unsuccessful, ill-fated and demoralizing WY bighorn sheep hunt kept a 12 gauge with slugs at camp or in a scabbard on his horse.

.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> The guide I had on my once-in-a-lifetime, super-expensive, unsuccessful, ill-fated and demoralizing WY bighorn sheep hunt kept a 12 gauge with slugs at camp or in a scabbard on his horse.
> 
> .


Have you ever heard of anyone killing a griz with a shotgun, other than that kid on the news the other day?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*true story*



LostLouisianian said:


> Have you ever heard of anyone killing a griz with a shotgun, other than that kid on the news the other day?


The guide I had on my once-in-a-lifetime, super-expensive, unsuccessful, ill-fated and demoralizing WY bighorn sheep hunt guides spring grizzly bear and brown bear in Alaska and the Northwest Territories. His nickname is "Grizz". He had a number of bear encounters that have gone bad, uh, for the bear. One encounter he used a 12 gauge on a wounded bear.

I'm not making this up, my sheep hunt was unsuccessful.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

LostLouisianian said:


> Have you ever heard of anyone killing a griz with a shotgun, other than that kid on the news the other day?


That kid peppered it with birdshot. The Uncle killed it with his rifle.

-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

DallanC said:


> That kid peppered it with birdshot. The Uncle killed it with his rifle.
> 
> -DallanC


Wondering out loud if you shot a griz in the face with say #4 lead shot and put out both eyes if he could find you to still eat you alive?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Have you ever heard of anyone killing a griz with a shotgun, other than that kid on the news the other day?


If you are packing a shotgun with the intention of killing a griz then it isn't going to be loaded with birdshot but 00 buckshot or slugs.

There are a lot of black bears back east that are taken out each year with a shotgun.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

DallanC said:


> That kid peppered it with birdshot. The Uncle killed it with his rifle.
> 
> -DallanC


My understanding is that the kid is the one that killed the bear, taking 4 shots. 
The uncle didn't have time to even get his gun off his shoulder. The boy's 1st shot was birdshot, followed by slugs (pretty standard setup).

http://juneauempire.com/news/2017-06-30/armed-11-year-old-boy-saves-fishing-party-charging-bear#


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

Bear spray is pretty nasty.. Just take special care of it if it accidentally goes off in your pack....... 

Also make sure to wash your hands before you wipe your nose and ESPECIALLY before you decide to relieve yourself...................... Not that I would know or anything :sad:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

johnnycake said:


> My understanding is that the kid is the one that killed the bear, taking 4 shots.
> The uncle didn't have time to even get his gun off his shoulder. The boy's 1st shot was birdshot, followed by slugs (pretty standard setup).
> 
> http://juneauempire.com/news/2017-06-30/armed-11-year-old-boy-saves-fishing-party-charging-bear#


 Not trying to downplay this story, because its pretty crazy.

But I wish that life was still like this all over the United States. You trust your kids enough to carry a firearm and your kid has the wherewithal enough to actually shoot a friggin bear. That's pretty amazing if you ask me. Most kids I know that are 11 years old don't even know how to cook an egg let alone be trusted to carry a shotgun. Hats off to this kid!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> My understanding is that the kid is the one that killed the bear, taking 4 shots.
> The uncle didn't have time to even get his gun off his shoulder. The boy's 1st shot was birdshot, followed by slugs (pretty standard setup).
> 
> http://juneauempire.com/news/2017-06-30/armed-11-year-old-boy-saves-fishing-party-charging-bear#


Alot more info in that article than the original one I read.

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Oh this happened in Hoonah, ok got it (I spent a couple nights in Hoonah once... ugh).

Which one of these was the shooter?










-oooo- -BaHa!-

-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bax* said:


> Not trying to downplay this story, because its pretty crazy.
> 
> But I wish that life was still like this all over the United States. You trust your kids enough to carry a firearm and your kid has the wherewithal enough to actually shoot a friggin bear. That's pretty amazing if you ask me. Most kids I know that are 11 years old don't even know how to cook an egg let alone be trusted to carry a shotgun. Hats off to this kid!


Amen Bax...I remember growing up in high school most kids that drove to school had a gun rack in the back window with at least 1 gun in it. Often times at recess and lunch we'd gather around the parking lot and check out each others guns and talk about hunting. Funny thing, don't remember a single school shooting from back then or even anyone talking stupid about shooting anyone at school.....strange.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

LostLouisianian said:


> Funny thing, don't remember a single school shooting from back then or even anyone talking stupid about shooting anyone at school.....strange.


 I often wonder what has changed in the world that has caused this to be a common solution for those who decide to shoot up a school, office space, or public location. Aside from the Texas Clock Tower shooting, this was nearly unheard of until the last 20 years.

Why in the world would someone think that this is the solution to their troubles?

I digress... sorry for the hijack


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

for all those who have bigger mouths and .... than brains - they need to get set up on the Alaskan target range with the mechanical charging grizz from 40 yards and actually see if they can... under a known and controlled situation, bring a firearm up, aim and make a kill shot before getting mauled. it takes a lot of ice in your veins and practice practice practice.... before you get good enough to do it. and after you are good enough, you know you don't ever want to cause of all the times you missed...


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Kingfisher said:


> for all those who have bigger mouths and .... than brains - they need to get set up on the Alaskan target range with the mechanical charging grizz from 40 yards and actually see if they can... under a known and controlled situation, bring a firearm up, aim and make a kill shot before getting mauled. it takes a lot of ice in your veins and practice practice practice.... before you get good enough to do it. and after you are good enough, you know you don't ever want to cause of all the times you missed...


That's exactly why I would take my SKS with a 30 round magazine and FMJ's. I can get off several decent shots in 2 seconds. Don't know if you've ever seen the penetration results of a 7.62x39 FMJ at close range...it's pretty significant, if I recall somewhere in the 28-32 inch category


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