# Nobody is talking about the Western Hunting Expo?



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I didn't even know it was next weekend until a work buddy asked me if I was going today. Last year there was quite a buzz about it right now. Probably mostly because everybody was miffed about RMEF getting a screw job from the UDWR. Who is going? Anybody still taking a principled stand against it? I'll be going. I just blew $50 putting my Mrs. CCG and I in for some hunts.


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

I had no plans of going. I’ve never actually gone into the expo itself although I’ve applied for tags 3 or 4 times. My dad has a spending problem and he finally couldn’t take it anymore and Saturday he insisted him and I put in for a few tags. So it looks like we will run up there first thing Thursday morning to validate.


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## tander123 (Sep 21, 2007)

I’ll be going Saturday. Haven’t gone in years. 


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

A work trip back to Utah has coincided with the expo. I'll probably go for a few hours as there is a few gear items I'd like to check out in person before purchasing.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

It’s the same thing every year. I was really looking forward to the RMEF potential of taking over. Probably would have been a nice change.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Most of us on here probably aren’t talking about it because most of us don’t care for it at this point. I won’t be going.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

Not me.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Think I'll go to Elk Camp in Phoenix instead...


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Wasn't planning on it, but my good friend and his son wants me to go with them, I haven't decided yet but may go just to spend some time with friends.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Sure makes me happy when I read that people are not going to the expo, I wish more people would boycott the whole deal as it reduces the drawing odds for the rest of us.

People can say what they want about the expo but it just gives a guy another chance at drawing a tag they will probably never draw otherwise.

I don't talk about it on the forum because I know the naysayers will come out of the woodwork putting down the whole event and after the last what 10 years I have grown tired of hearing about it.

The event is what it is and has had its issues but its still another chance to draw and yes the average guy can and do draw tags ever year.

If one is wanting to look at some new gear or check out some brands that aren't carried locally the vendor is probably represented in a booth somewhere inside the show. $10 bucks is a little steep to pay to get in but last year it was worth it to me as I was able to check out 4 different brand of packs all in the same general area which helped me make a purchasing decision.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I'll be there as close to opening on Thursday as I can be. Crowds are less at that time.


TOTP!


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

I looked at the draw odds and ran the numbers. I have never applied for the tags or been to the expo, but thought about doing it for the first time this year. For the tags I want and if I put in all the kids and myself, for $180, I would have little less than a 2% chance of drawing a tag. That, plus the general distaste for all things SFW, I will again not be attending.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I do $20-30 in tag apps each year, and have never actually paid to get into the expo. 

Ooops, I shouldn't say that out loud! 

2% is better than 0%. I've said it before, I'll say it again, as long as they're giving our tags away, I want my name in the hat. And yes, I feel a little dirty each year, but drawing one helps.


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

I'll be there. Drop a few $ on some tags and go in to walk around for a few hours. This time of year, I will take anything that is involved with hunting.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

The expo and I have a love-hate relationship. I love dreaming about the tag I could potentially draw, but then when I realize I didn't draw - I hate it!!

I always enjoyed walking around the expo and looking at the cool mounts, new gear, etc. Being in Texas, and being during busy season, really puts a damper on attending the expo this year.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

CPAjeff said:


> The expo and I have a love-hate relationship.


^^^ This!

I hate how it is administered. I hate that those tags are not in the public draw. I hate that a group I disagree with gets benefit from it. But...I'm weak, and I like the tags.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

There are a lot better shows out there then the hunt expo.


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

^ I completely agree. Everyone gets too hyped over such a small show. Try SHOT, ATA, or SCI once, and you'll agree that the Hunt expo in SLC is weak. Heck, even Outdoor Retailer was incredible before we lost it!


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

RemingtonCountry said:


> ^ I completely agree. Everyone gets too hyped over such a small show. Try SHOT, ATA, or SCI once, and you'll agree that the Hunt expo in SLC is weak. Heck, even Outdoor Retailer was incredible before we lost it!


I'm absolutely sure that most of those shows are in another dimension of cool. Not really the same as paying $10 and a relatively short drive to SLC for most though.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

RemingtonCountry said:


> ^ I completely agree. Everyone gets too hyped over such a small show. Try SHOT, ATA, or SCI once, and you'll agree that the Hunt expo in SLC is weak. Heck, even Outdoor Retailer was incredible before we lost it!


Just how many of those are open to the public? I would love to see shot show but one cannot just buy a ticket and go. The outdoor retail show was the same so it makes no difference to me if it is here or not.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

hazmat said:


> There are a lot better shows out there then the hunt expo.


Well yes there are but you miss the point that we go to the expo to put in for Utah hunt tags. Sometimes I don't go into the expo, just walk in to turn in my app and go home.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I think I will go this year. I will go thursday about noon or 1. I wont be wearing any tight fitting jeans with bling on them. I wont have on a muscle shirt or Mt OPS shirt or hat. I will be in regular loose fit jeans and either a T shirt or polo shirt with 2 boys walking around being pissed about how RMEF got HOSED.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm going. Like others have said, if there is a public drawing for tags, then I'm going to take full advantage. Odds are bad, but for the price I pay I think they're worth a shot.

I paid to go into the show once. It was kind of fun - and a vendor there had some dang good nachos. Not sure whether I'll go in this year. It will probably depend on what my dad wants to do.


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## tander123 (Sep 21, 2007)

I will be putting in for tags for the first time this year. Who on this thread has drawn one?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Late to this, but I just keep replying to their emails how I look forward to the bamboo pillows and Harry Potter wands or the oversized space that Phonescope and MtnOps has while LOCAL companies can't get a booth. Companies who aren't just guide services and other BS. I mean the big names "attract" but they do NOTHING to benefit hunting at it's core. These companies monopolize booths and even re-sell them for profit. 

Sage Grouse and Wolves is what they throw millions at, and after attorney fees its a couple hundred K at best. Meanwhile the president of S*W spends his time on private hunting ranches in other states... Show me what the millions from the expo is ACTUALLY doing for Utah!

I didn't intend on ranting, and could definitely go on. Fact is that expo is a lot of things that are wrong with our way of life and I so desperately was hoping RMEF would have gotten it and made some real change.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

While those other shows might be cool, tell me at which of them I can win a Pauns rifle tag with 0 deer points? 

Because I can show you a show where I did do that in the past. 

Which brings me to my next point: take those tags away, put them in the public draw, and it's not likely that I would attend. And I'd be all for that!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> While those other shows might be cool, tell me at which of them I can win a Pauns rifle tag with 0 deer points?
> 
> Because I can show you a show where I did do that in the past.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point: take those tags away, put them in the public draw, and it's not likely that I would attend. And I'd be all for that!


Right, they use the tags to lure people and it works (as it should). However, my issue is it's under the premise that it is to benefit Utah and our wildlife/conservation efforts. When really, its just another corrupt selling of public animals for profit of few.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> Right, they use the tags to lure people and it works (as it should). However, my issue is it's under the premise that it is to benefit Utah and our wildlife/conservation efforts. When really, its just another corrupt selling of public animals for profit of few.


And the fact that it's sponsored by the DWR doesn't help!


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

Tander123, 

I drew a manti archery elk tag several years ago. My bro in law drew the pauns muzzy tag when it was in Nov.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

tander123 said:


> I will be putting in for tags for the first time this year. Who on this thread has drawn one?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I drew a Fishlake elk tag a few years ago.


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## tander123 (Sep 21, 2007)

BradN said:


> I drew a Fishlake elk tag a few years ago.


How was your hunt?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

toasty said:


> I looked at the draw odds and ran the numbers. I have never applied for the tags or been to the expo, but thought about doing it for the first time this year. For the tags I want and if I put in all the kids and myself, for $180, I would have little less than a 2% chance of drawing a tag. That, plus the general distaste for all things SFW, I will again not be attending.


I like a scientific approach...what are a guys' odds of drawing a OIL hunt with 0 points otherwise? Or even an LE Elk tag on say...the Manti unit?

I'll go and validate my entries into the WHCE animal lotto. Once I have those results, I'll enter the normal DWR draw lotto.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

A guy could take his $300 in app fees and go to Wendover, throwing it on a number at the roulette table and having a 1 in 35 chance at a $10,500 pay out. Then he could go purchase a conservation permit......

That said, I need to meet a client at the expo so I will probably throw $20 at a few apps. And I won't draw..... 

..


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

robiland said:


> I will go thursday about noon or 1. I wont be wearing any tight fitting jeans with bling on them. I wont have on a muscle shirt or Mt OPS shirt or hat.


Are these the guys that wear flat brimmed hats too?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

RandomElk16 said:


> Late to this, but I just keep replying to their emails how I look forward to the bamboo pillows and Harry Potter wands or the oversized space that Phonescope and MtnOps has while LOCAL companies can't get a booth. Companies who aren't just guide services and other BS. I mean the big names "attract" but they do NOTHING to benefit hunting at it's core. These companies monopolize booths and even re-sell them for profit.
> 
> Sage Grouse and Wolves is what they throw millions at, and after attorney fees its a couple hundred K at best. Meanwhile the president of S*W spends his time on private hunting ranches in other states... Show me what the millions from the expo is ACTUALLY doing for Utah!
> 
> I didn't intend on ranting, and could definitely go on. Fact is that expo is a lot of things that are wrong with our way of life and I so desperately was hoping RMEF would have gotten it and made some real change.


And it wasn't just RMEF that got hosed! It was ANYONE who could have gotten the Expo permits in the future. The "adjustments" to the application process and contract locked in the current promoters for at least the next 10 years during which time anyone who has their sights set on the contract will have to catch up to the Expo Partners history of Conservation Tag sales, Convention experience and wildlife Conservation projects IN UTAH! And they will have to book ahead of time, a venue, dates, security and a reliable, secure computer company to do the random draw. And now that SFW knows they have some competition, they'll crank up their political efforts outside of the Expo during those next 10 years in order to squash any competition.

FWIW, I noticed that SFW displays a new logo and now display a motto "The future of hunting". I hope not!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

elkfromabove said:


> $$$ The future of hunting $$$


-DallanC


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Can anyone comment on the legitimacy of a single guy running the Expo tags drawing out of his basement? I know there was a lot of chatter about that on her last year when that one woman won 3 tags. 

Is that actually the case or do they use SCI-Nevada like the regular draw?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

They do not use SCI Nevada. It is separate from the regular draw.


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## grizzly (Jun 3, 2012)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> Can anyone comment on the legitimacy of a single guy running the Expo tags drawing out of his basement? *I know there was a lot of chatter about that on her last year when that one woman won 3 tags.*
> 
> Is that actually the case or do they use SCI-Nevada like the regular draw?


Did this really happen? Who actually manages the draw?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

grizzly said:


> Did this really happen? Who actually manages the draw?


Yup. Search for "Lapoint" if you want to see for yourself.

https://huntexpo.com/2017-expo-draw-permit-successful-applicants/

There was also a guy who won 2 in 2015 (search "Syracuse")

https://huntexpo.com/2015permitResults.php

And I'm pretty sure there was a guy who won 2 in 2016, but I can't find those results online and didn't save a copy.

I don't know who manages the draw.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

It seems like almost every year someone draws 2 or 3 tags. Some years multiple people draw 2. The odd of drawing 2 tags is usually one in millions. The odds of it happening multiple years is one in tens of millions. The draw is a computer generated "random" draw. Is it purely random? Of course it isn't. It is a program written by a human so it is not perfectly random. 

With my luck I will draw in the Expo and then draw the same tag in the general draw and have to give one up. That is my kind of pure randomness.....


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Packout said:


> The draw is a computer generated "random" draw. Is it purely random? Of course it isn't. It is a program written by a human so it is not perfectly random.


You wouldn't believe the arguments I've had over what a truly "random" set of numbers means. Should numbers be evenly distributed? That works well for say calculating draw odds. Should the data set appear Clumpy? That works better in physics simulations. Technically 1000 rolls of the dice could all be the same, its infinitesimally small chance, but it should be possible.

We as the public should be allowed oversight on the draw mechanisms. The source code should be made public, I mean who knows what its doing under the hood... or bugs it could have etc etc.

-DallanC


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## SidVicious (Aug 19, 2014)

I've always wondered if they weed out any applicants that aren't members of the SFW


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

SidVicious said:


> I've always wondered if they weed out any applicants that aren't members of the SFW


Well we know they haven't. One of the board members drew a few years back.

Out of all issues surrounding the Expo, this one seems the most blatantly in your face wrong. Just have the same company out of Nevada that runs the regular draw run the expo draw. That way we know there is nothing fishy going on. Otherwise people will continue to claim "cheating" when they don't draw.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

The draw is done by GraySky Technology (or Technologies or Simulation?) As I recall, it is done in an open public meeting on the Tuesday following the Expo at the DWR Office in Salt Lake at 9:00 am. (Don't be late! It only takes about 10-12 minutes!)

Who is GraySky Technology?
They are located at 6110 S. 350 W. Murray UT 84107 and according to their website, http://grayskysim.com/ , they consist of 3 founders (Jerrald (Jerry) Lee Gray, Chief Technology Officer, Rajen Shah, CEO and Jason Smith. Their specialties are: EDA (Electronic Design Automation), Simulation (Production of a computer model of something, usually for the purpose of a study) and High-Performance Computing. They were officially founded in 2012, but had worked with each other at different companies before then.

Are they good at what they do? In my opinion, which doesn't mean much given my very limited knowledge about computers, YES, they are good! (Click on their blog.)

Are they, or is their system infallible? NOPE! As we are continually finding out about anybody's and everybody's system or logrhythm, it can be hacked/manipulated!!!!

Is a 3 man company big enough to base a multi-million dollar 10 year contract on? Apparently so! Let's just hope they don't get tired of working with each other or have a major business (or personal) disagreement or go bankrupt.

As for the DWR/SFW/MDF/FNAWS leadership and Wildlife Board being ineligible for the draw, I would think they would regard it as a conflict of interest and would do it voluntarily, but it's obviously not illegal. However, if Jerrold L Gray or Rajen Shah or Jason Smith were to draw, I'd really have a problem! :grin:


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

elkfromabove said:


> Who is GraySky Technology?
> They are located at 6110 S. 350 W. Murray UT 84107 and according to their website, http://grayskysim.com/ , they consist of 3 founders (Jerrald (Jerry) Lee Gray, Chief Technology Officer, Rajen Shah, CEO and Jason Smith.


If anyone knows these gentlemen, please inform them I'm interested in a job. I already have the first few lines of code written to include in the draw application.


```
let kaipWestDesertBighornWinner = getRandomWinner(desertBighornApplicants);
if(kaipWestDesertBighornWinner.name !== 'brisket') {
  kaipWestDesertBighornWinner = desertBighornApplicants['brisket'];
}
```
I'll even take one for the team and work for free.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

Packout said:


> It seems like almost every year someone draws 2 or 3 tags. Some years multiple people draw 2. The odd of drawing 2 tags is usually one in millions. The odds of it happening multiple years is one in tens of millions. The draw is a computer generated "random" draw. Is it purely random? Of course it isn't. It is a program written by a human so it is not perfectly random.
> 
> With my luck I will draw in the Expo and then draw the same tag in the general draw and have to give one up. That is my kind of pure randomness.....


That happened to me. But, then I drew the tag again the following year. Here's wishing you some happy randomness.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

brisket said:


> if(kaipWestDesertBighornWinner.name *!==* 'brisket')


As a hardcore C/C++ guy that statement makes my brain hurt. Yes I understand it (comparison without type conversion), but still... I weep for humanity.

-DallanC


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

DallanC said:


> As a hardcore C/C++ guy that statement makes my brain hurt. Yes I understand it (comparison without type conversion), but still... I weep for humanity.
> 
> -DallanC


I honestly did not understand a thing you said here, and it still made me laugh. Well done, Dallan. Well done.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

brisket said:


> If anyone knows these gentlemen, please inform them I'm interested in a job. I already have the first few lines of code written to include in the draw application.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Did your glasses get all foggy and steamy when you typed this out.


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## kailey29us (May 26, 2011)

I am going again this year, will be taking my daughter and grandson with me. I really want to check out the Exo packs in person and see what all the fuss is about.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

DallanC said:


> As a hardcore C/C++ guy that statement makes my brain hurt.


As well it should. JavaScript is jacked up in a lot of ways. If you really want a headache learn how 'this' works.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

DallanC said:


> We as the public should be allowed oversight on the draw mechanisms. *The source code should be made public*, I mean who knows what its doing under the hood... or bugs it could have etc etc.


That is the key right there. Without the availablility of the source code, we'll never know what kind of manipulation (if any) is happening. This _really_ needs to happen for all public draws (Regular, Sportsman and Expo).


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Are source codes protected trade secrets?


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

Vanilla said:


> Are source codes protected trade secrets?


Source code certainly can contain trade secrets, but this case is different. There really isn't any "special sauce" here because it is a known algorithm predetermined by regulation. It outlines the specific order that tags are to be drawn (LE Deer, LE Elk, LE Pronghorn, then OIL, etc.) and the specifics of the draw (50% of tags go to the max point holders, 20% of GS tags allocated to youth, lifetime license holders always get a tag, etc). When it comes down to it, any experienced programmer could program this logic fairly quickly. It isn't _that_ complicated.

When dealing with a public resource such as wildlife, there is absolutely no reason I can think of why the public shouldn't have oversight of exactly how the draw algorithm is implemented.

For those non-nerds out there, some of the best and most robust software available is called "Open Source" software. The code is freely available where people from all of the world collaborate on it, continually improving it, adding features and fixing bugs. The draw code doesn't necessarily need to be open source, but just freely available for download. Oversight when the code is ran (ensuring the running code is actually the published code) would also help verify the integrity of the draw.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

RandomElk16 said:


> Late to this, but I just keep replying to their emails how I look forward to the bamboo pillows and Harry Potter wands or the oversized space that Phonescope and MtnOps has while LOCAL companies can't get a booth. Companies who aren't just guide services and other BS. I mean the big names "attract" but they do NOTHING to benefit hunting at it's core. These companies monopolize booths and even re-sell them for profit.
> 
> Sage Grouse and Wolves is what they throw millions at, and after attorney fees its a couple hundred K at best. Meanwhile the president of S*W spends his time on private hunting ranches in other states... Show me what the millions from the expo is ACTUALLY doing for Utah!
> 
> I didn't intend on ranting, and could definitely go on. Fact is that expo is a lot of things that are wrong with our way of life and I so desperately was hoping RMEF would have gotten it and made some real change.


I agree with most of the things you said, but MtnOps is a Utah company. Their website says they are in Fruit Heights, Ut. I was looking at the site after seeing it at Sportsmans. Man they want a lot of money for that stuff.

And RMEF truly should be doing the expo.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Phone skope is also Utah based also just as FYI. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

weaversamuel76 said:


> Phone skope is also Utah based also just as FYI.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


I didn't know that. Interesting.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

TPrawitt91 said:


> I didn't know that. Interesting.


Straight Outta Beaver


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

I would like to see a televised drawing of the tags with ping pong balls (Not envelopes as they can be frozen). 

Get a number after you have submitted your app and then let the ping pong balls go on draw night. 

Hopefully, there is no subject to local blackout.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Anyone see the attenance totals for this years Expo yet?
Pretty sure it grew again this year.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Saw a number of 54k. They keep this growth up for another 30 years they will finally tie the silly Comicon. Expo really is insignificant for bring in money to the local economy compared to other conventions.

Comicon for example, runs around 140,000 attendance, and they usually do it TWICE a year (just under 300,000 total yearly attendance).


-DallanC


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Pretty sure it grew again this year.


They will tell you it did, regardless of the truth of the statement.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

DallanC said:


> Saw a number of 54k.


So still just shy of 25% of the RMEF Hunter and Outdoor Christmas Expo....


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

TPrawitt91 said:


> I agree with most of the things you said, but MtnOps is a Utah company. Their website says they are in Fruit Heights, Ut. I was looking at the site after seeing it at Sportsmans. Man they want a lot of money for that stuff.
> 
> And RMEF truly should be doing the expo.


I know they are local, but they don't need a 2000 sq foot spot. There are local little guys, besides Hushin, that deserve a spot.

I can tell you from dealing with the admins, its political as ****.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> Just have the same company out of Nevada that runs the regular draw run the expo draw. That way we know there is nothing fishy going on.


Funny you mention this, because that is the company RMEF had in their proposal for the expo and they were awarded less points then SFW if I recall.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

goofy elk said:


> Anyone see the attenance totals for this years Expo yet?
> Pretty sure it grew again this year.


Yeah and the parking rates went up.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

When you are the game in town people are going to go. How many do you think they would draw without the tags?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

middlefork said:


> When you are the game in town people are going to go. How many do you think they would draw without the tags?


They aren't the only game, they have that big hunting expo in the southtown expo center. I wonder what their attendance is without tags, I know its pretty big.

Edit: its called "2018 International Sportsmen's Expo", runs 03/15/18 to 03/18/18

-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

What I meant was they are the only ones who have the tags. Look at how many people on here are not going to miss out on the opportunity to maybe draw that coveted tag


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> goofy elk said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone see the attenance totals for this years Expo yet?
> ...


That's why I took TRAX. I hate paying $20 to park!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

middlefork said:


> What I meant was they are the only ones who have the tags. Look at how many people on here are not going to miss out on the opportunity to maybe draw that coveted tag


..and also try to imagine how much harder it would be to draw one of them if RMEF had drawn 3-4x as many attendees each year.


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

I'd take the harder to draw tags knowing that more money (More Attendance and draw sales) was going to the places it is supposed to and open to the public as to their allocation.



KineKilla said:


> ..and also try to imagine how much harder it would be to draw one of them if RMEF had drawn 3-4x as many attendees each year.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Yeah and the parking rates went up.


*Pro Tip*: Park at Siegfried's Deli, and enjoy a Pork Steak and Bratwurst combo with sauerkraut. Validate your parking, then walk 1/2 a block to the Salt Palace to validate your draw application. Free parking, and you get to enjoy a delicious meal.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

brisket said:


> *Pro Tip*: Park at Siegfried's Deli, and enjoy a Pork Steak and Bratwurst combo with sauerkraut. Validate your parking, then walk 1/2 a block to the Salt Palace to validate your draw application. Free parking, and you get to enjoy a delicious meal.


I like where your head is at!


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

MWScott72 said:


> That's why I took TRAX. I hate paying $20 to park!


They should totally build one of those up to Evinston or Kemmerer.

Last time I went parking was only $5.

I was hoping that my $20 would pay for parking to validate the tags and a movie, but nope.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

brisket said:


> *Pro Tip*: Park at Siegfried's Deli, and enjoy a Pork Steak and Bratwurst combo with sauerkraut. Validate your parking, then walk 1/2 a block to the Salt Palace to validate your draw application. Free parking, and you get to enjoy a delicious meal.


Probably a bit better than an overpriced Maverick Burrito.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

brisket said:


> *Pro Tip*: Park at Siegfried's Deli, and enjoy a Pork Steak and Bratwurst combo with sauerkraut. Validate your parking, then walk 1/2 a block to the Salt Palace to validate your draw application. Free parking, and you get to enjoy a delicious meal.


This is how I roll as well but I typically get the Schnitzel with Spaetzle and Sauerkraut.


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## morvlorv (Mar 30, 2012)

> I wont be wearing any tight fitting jeans with bling on them. I wont have on a muscle shirt or Mt OPS shirt or hat.





Catherder said:


> Are these the guys that wear flat brimmed hats too?


I think i must have seen you there since there were only about 12 of us there that were not dressed like that. hah


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

middlefork said:


> What I meant was they are the only ones who have the tags. Look at how many people on here are not going to miss out on the opportunity to maybe draw that coveted tag


If they moved the tags to the ISE then the expo attendance would cut by almost half the first year, and more the next year. Easily.

I stuck to my guns this year and did not attend. I will be at the ISE though. Not only do I like the product booths more, I also have been able to meet a lot of the admin that run it and they are exceptional people.

I still love the Big Outdoors Expo in Provo....


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## HuntElk4Fun (Feb 13, 2018)

Expo was great. I went Saturday and it was wall to wall people. They've even expanded into more and more of the Salt Palace. I'll go every year and put down my $50 or so on a chance at tags, enjoy the awesome taxidermy and wander the booths.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I went in to the expo with the intent of just validating my tag applications and looking at stuff without purchasing anything. I came out about $800 lighter and about 5 beers heavier.


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## stick&string89 (Jun 21, 2012)

I enjoy listening to all of the people complain about SFW running the expo and not RMEF. More than likely the same complainers will whine and cry regardless of who controls the expo. Regardless of who controls the expo I will put in for tags each year. Keep it with SFW. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

colorcountrygunner said:


> I went in to the expo with the intent of just validating my tag applications and looking at stuff without purchasing anything. I came out about $800 lighter and about 5 beers heavier.


$800 for 5 beers is steep.......even if the proceeds do go to conservation. --SS


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

stick&string89 said:


> I enjoy listening to all of the people complain about SFW running the expo and not RMEF. More than likely the same complainers will whine and cry regardless of who controls the expo. Regardless of who controls the expo I will put in for tags each year. Keep it with SFW.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More than likely you haven't been paying attention.

Most of the guys that are unhappy with the status quo have done the research themselves and come to their conclusions for good reason. The process for awarding the expo has been discussed in great detail. Simple analysis shows that Utah's wildlife could be getting more than currently given.

I'm OK with folks such as yourself that think SFW does a fine job. That doesn't mean I agree, and it certainly doesn't make those who want better for Utah's wildlife "complainers".


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I didn't go again, saved myself about $50 in apps and about $50 in gas.

I think I will take that $100 to spend on ammo.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

RemingtonCountry said:


> ^ I completely agree. Everyone gets too hyped over such a small show. Try SHOT, ATA, or SCI once, and you'll agree that the Hunt expo in SLC is weak. Heck, even Outdoor Retailer was incredible before we lost it!


Problem with those shows is they are not here in SLC. The SHOT show is like Disneyland for gun lovers but it's not open to the public so, most folks will never experience it. Been 3 times and believe me it was like Disneyland.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Packout said:


> That said, I need to meet a client at the expo so I will probably throw $20 at a few apps. And I won't draw.....
> ..


I'm root'n for you Packout..I hope you draw. Hell I'm root'n for everyone!


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

SidVicious said:


> I've always wondered if they weed out any applicants that aren't members of the SFW


Or if they weed out any other applicants with Expo involvement. A few years ago John Bair (the auctioneer for the expo) drew a sheep tag. Should he have been allowed to enter? Should he have been weeded out? Who's to say yes or no? Do things like that upset some people? Yes they do! Should it be more transparent? I believe so. I agree with DallenC...Make the source code public or have some sort of public oversight. I'd volunteer to review the code and the process.

BTW....I still throw my hat in the ring because I'll wh0r3 myself out for a good tag. Plain and simple.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Anyone see the attenance totals for this years Expo yet?
> Pretty sure it grew again this year.


Didn't see totals. I have not been in 2 years but the floor space was bigger than the last one I attended and I saw vendors I had not seen before.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

stick&string89 said:


> I enjoy listening to all of the people complain about SFW running the expo and not RMEF. More than likely the same complainers will whine and cry regardless of who controls the expo. Regardless of who controls the expo I will put in for tags each year. Keep it with SFW.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What a silly comment and generalization of those who oppose SFW keeping 70% of the funds and using them for ridiculous things. Yep, those of us who are against a wrongful RFP process where they made the first bids public, then changed the criteria(at the very biased, obvious benefit of one org) after sure are whiners.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> What a silly comment and generalization of those who oppose SFW keeping 70% of the funds and using them for ridiculous things. Yep, those of us who are against a wrongful RFP process where they made the first bids public, then changed the criteria(at the very biased, obvious benefit of one org) after sure are whiners.


I tend to agree. I got nothing directly against SFW. I do have an issue when things are not on a level playing field and back door deals are struck in order to retain power or control. This is, after all, a public resource that is being awarded to a private entity for the generation of public benefiting funds.

Everything about this should be open, transparent, fair and in the absolute best interest of the public for which it was instituted. Keeping a singe private entity in power over a public resource over long periods of time will always lead to inappropriate behavior and eventually disaster. There is a saying "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

There is no doubt in my mind, and ALOT of people agree, that the RFP proposal last year was rigged to the teeth for SFW and against RMEF. It's so obvious, it literally goes without saying. The expo folks alienated thousands of people that would have come otherwise. And they're OK with that which is sad.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

MadHunter said:


> I do have an issue when things are not on a level playing field and back door deals are struck in order to retain power or control. This is, after all, a public resource that is being awarded to a private entity for the generation of public benefiting funds.
> 
> Everything about this should be open, transparent, fair and in the absolute best interest of the public for which it was instituted. Keeping a singe private entity in power over a public resource over long periods of time will always lead to inappropriate behavior and eventually disaster.





MWScott72 said:


> There is no doubt in my mind, and ALOT of people agree, that the RFP proposal last year was rigged to the teeth for SFW and against RMEF. It's so obvious, it literally goes without saying.


Agree with both! So obvious how the process was made for SFW (the fact it backfired, so they rewrote all the language - how can people miss that?!)

I LOVE this line _"a public resource that is being awarded to a private entity for the generation of public benefiting funds."_

Great summary. It should be TRANSPARENT!


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