# .243 Winchester Question



## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

What kind of effective range does this caliber have with say an 85 gr bullet? How about 100 gr?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What are you shooting at?


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm having a custom .243 built now that the smith says will be good to 600-700 yds on P-dogs :shock: . the .243 on deer is about a 250 yd. rifle. I feel it doesn't have the smack down energy past that point. I used to use the 100 Grn. Hornady SP's. I will say it killed the largest deer I ever took. :mrgreen:


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Al Hansen said:


> I'm having a custom .243 built now that the smith says will be good to 600-700 yds on P-dogs :shock: . the .243 on deer is about a 250 yd. rifle. I feel it doesn't have the smack down energy past that point. I used to use the 100 Grn. Hornady SP's. I will say it killed the largest deer I ever took. :mrgreen:


What he said, except I already have my custom 243 that kills prairie dogs.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I am just curious about the average effective range. Obviously if it were just a paper target the hole would get ripped if I shot it from a mile away, but I what I'm curious about is p-dogs or coyotes or even deer. My grandpa says he used to shoot a gong at 1000 yards with it and you could hear it ping pretty good. 

The reason I ask is because I am looking at a scope that is higher power. Its a 6-20x50mm. I know it can be harder to keep still with a higher powered scope, but I'd like to be able to poke out to 300 or 400 yards and be able to see what I am shooting at, without covering it with the crosshairs. I'd also like to be able to shoot accurately in the 100 to 200 yard range, and wanna see the holes on the paper. Would it be advisable to go with a lower power to avoid the wiggle, or does the 6-20 sound good to you?


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I'd also add that I intend to hunt with it, that's why I asked about the effective range.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

For prairie dogs, the effective range will be as far as you can hit them. I shoot a 58 gr. V-Max at 3850 fps, and they explode nicely as far as I have hit them. My longest shot to date was over 600 yards. Coyotes, the range will be as far as you can hit them in the vitals. For deer, I would limit the range to under 250 yards. I hit a small mule deer with three shots, placed right behind the shoulder (I watched the bullet impacts), at approximately 350 yards. The deer did not show any sign of being hit. It ran a couple of hundred yards before my brother killed it. All three shots were perfectly placed. I was using a Hornady 100 gr. BTSP. The next deer that I shot with this rifle was a large bodied mule deer (a four year old deer), that went down with a single shot at about 250 yards. I have since decided that my 270 is better suited for the larger animals, at ranges beyond 250 yards.
The big scope will be a handicap while hunting big game. The higher magnification has a tendency to encourage one to take longer shots than they should. It will also limit your field of view, making it more difficult to locate the animal, and if you are too close with the scope cranked up, you wont be able to tell what part of the animal you are aiming at. That big scope would be right at home on a dedicated varmint rifle. For an all purpose rifle, a 4-12x42 would be ideal. That is the scope that I used on my longest shot (600+ yards) on a potgut.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

My "dedicated" varmint .243 is topped off with a Lupe 8.5-25 X 40. I agree with the 4-12x44 for a all around optic. I would look at the Nikon Buckmaster or Monarch.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Al Hansen said:


> My "dedicated" varmint .243 is topped off with a Lupe 8.5-25 X 40. I agree with the 4-12x44 for a all around optic. I would look at the Nikon Buckmaster or Monarch.


Jeez grandma.....what big scope's you have !!! :shock: :shock:


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

:mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Al Hansen said:


> My "dedicated" varmint .243 is topped off with a Lupe 8.5-25 X 40. I agree with the 4-12x44 for a all around optic. I would look at the Nikon Buckmaster or Monarch.


Mine has a 4-16x44 Redfield.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

I would agree that with the .243 you can kill PDs as far away as you can see them. Use of plastic-tipped bullets (_Nosler Ballistic Tip, Hornady V-Max etc._) with their higher ballistic coefficient would aid flatness of trajectory for the longer ranges. From my experience with shooting PDs with my sporter weight .243 one major limiting factor on long range hits was the fact that recoil was enough to lift the barrel and have the target disappear from the scope field-of-view, so that I couldn't spot my misses for correction on the next shot. A fellow shooter/spotter would have been invaluable there. More magnification = a smaller FOV so the problem is greater.

I feel that 4.5-14x is all that is necessary for a dedicated PD rifle/scope and that 4-12x would be as high as most of us should go for a dual-purpose .243 scope.
Excessive mirage magnification and the tiny FOV pretty much negate any power advantages over 15x in actual field use.


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

I love the .243 as a deer cartridge. It is not really a novice caliber, though it is easier than mag calibers on sensitive shooters. Deer out to 300 yards is very doable, but you need to pay your dues at the target range (but you need to do this regardless of caliber anyway!!!) I read a lot of so-called experts poo-poo the .243, but I have never had to shoot a deer twice with a .243. I have witnessed a mule deer shot 3 times with a 7mm mag before going down. Everything is conditional. You have to make the call on the specific shot situation. Most iffy shots with a .243 are most likely iffy with other calibers as well. When the animal gets lost due to a poor hit, the guy shooting the 300 mag excusses something other than his choice of caliber. If a guy is shooting a .243 and loses a deer, it's always blamed on the gun, not the guy behind it. Deer aren't that hard to kill, but do require good shot placement. A .243 is an accurate gun very capable of good shot placement. Bullets in the 80 - 100 grain range have good ballistic coefficients and the heavier bullets have surprisingly good sectional densities.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Thank you for all the replies! I would probably never use this gun for deer, simply because it is so heavy. It is an old Winchester Model 70 with the heavy bull barrel on it, made in 1958 (i checked the serial number). My main purposes would be for hunting p-dogs or other varmints, and also bench shooting at targets. The gun is just too heavy to pack around up in the mountains, but I have used it for hunting rabbits, and would use it for coyotes and such. I was curious how effective it would be on a deer, and what its limitations were. 

So my next question is this- How much would it cost me to have the barrel glass bedded? Do you know anyone that does a good job? Would this devalue my gun? Keep in mind, this gun is a classic. Although I would never sell it because of sentimental value, I don't want to do anything that would devalue it either.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Just check with a few reputable smiths in your area. All my guns are shooters, anything I do is to try and make them more accurate. They are not closet queens. If I don't shoot it, it's gone. Some say a glass job can be done at home. Not me, I'm a tard when it comes to that stuff, I'd rather pay a few bucks and have it done right.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

How is its accuracy? You may not want to do anything to it if it meets your expectations. Glass bedding an action is not that difficult if you follow the instructions in the box. The AcraGlass gel is easy to use. Just remember to use the release agent. If you have another rifle with less value, you might want to practice on it first. I always practiced on my brother's guns first. :mrgreen:

Modifying the rifle in any way would diminish its collector value. If it has not been abused, and is in original condition, I would probably shy away from altering it.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

The gun was bought by my grandpa originally in the late '50's, and has nothing aftermarket on it besides a scope. The scope is an old one, and has bad parallax so I'd like to replace it. It only goes to 11x, and the reticle is kind of hard to pick up, other reasons I'd like a new one. There has been nothing done to it as of yet that would lessen the value, and I'd like to keep it as such, but I also want that thing to shoot MOA groups. Last time I shot it, I put 7 shots in a 2 inch diameter circle. I think 4 of the shots were within an inch and a half or so circle, with the other 3 fliers a half inch or so outside of that to each side. That was a 100 yards. I'd like to shoot like that at 200 or 300, so that's why I'm looking into the improvements. Are these things worth it, or should I just be happy with it?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

I would do nothing to it except mount a new scope. You can probably improve the groups with a good cleaning, and tailoring your loads to the rifle. You do handload, don't you? another trick to try is to float the barrel by installing a shim under the receiver and the tang where the screws attach it to the stock. The cardboard from a cartridge box will do a nice job as a shim. Making sure the guard screws are tight should help too. The front one should be as tight as you can get it, the rear snug, and the middle one just tight enough that it doesn't fall out.
When working up loads, pay close attention to your seating depth. That will have a huge effect on your accuracy. 
Have the barrel checked for erosion in the throat, and possible damage at the crown. These will also have an effect on your accuracy, especially the crown. Your 50 year old rifle may not be capable of the accuracy you are expecting. This is due to the differences in manufacturing tolerances. With the CNC machining in use today, our new rifles are capable of much better accuracy than the finest rifles made with the hand fitting from yesteryear.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

The throat and barrel are in great shape, as well as the crown. My grandpa used it mainly for target shooting, so it didn't see much field use. I have just recently gotten into handloading, and I look forward to playing with different loads to see what is most accurate. I forgot to mention in my last post that those groups I was shooting were from factory ammo, so with any luck, my accuracy should improve just from loading my own.


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## mzshooter (Apr 8, 2008)

ChaserOfAllBirds said:


> I have just recently gotten into handloading, and I look forward to playing with different loads to see what is most accurate.


Good for you theirs nothing better than loading for your self!! If your into blowing little critters into millions of parts. Try Barnes Varmint Grenade, Its a 62 Gr. flat-base, hollow-cavity bullet with a copper-tin composite core. The length is comparable to most 100 gr. lead bullets and its accurate!!!!! There are some video's on Barnes web page check them out. http://www.barnesbullets.com/videos/tomato_withlogonew.wmv


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I bought some Hornady v-max 65 gr to start out, but the VG were where I was headed next! Those things are mean!


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Has anyone here done a bedding job on their own? Any pointers or suggestions? How did it turn out?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

I've done several. The first was an adventure. The second one, I tipped my rifle up while the AcraGlass was still runny and learned the inner working of a Remington model 700 trigger. Trying to clean it up before the epoxy set was a ton of fun that lasted until 4am. The third time I found AcraGlass Gel, and the world has been a happier place ever since. It won't run into your trigger mechanism. It isn't a terribly difficult job if you you have some woodworking skills. Just follow the instructions in the box, and use too much release agent. 
I would still have second thoughts about altering that original model 70. I would find a couple of other rifles to practice on before I attempted to bed grandpa's 243. It would be a shame to damage a rifle with sentimental value.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So I checked out that Nitrex 6-20x50 tonight at Cabela's, and was impressed. It seems like an awesome scope, however, I am starting to wonder if I shouldn't go after a lower powered scope??? The guy at the counter (just his opinion, I know) said that he's never really even shot any animals at over 14 power anyway. Also, my buddy just got back from So Utah after a few days of playing in jackrabbit country, and said that his 6-24x40 was too powerful even turned down to shoot at rabbits in the brush. So what say ye? Come on, Loke, I know you're good for it! (any other opinions are also appreciated)


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Check out the list below. The .243 is mounted with a Lupe 8.5-25x40. It stays on 25 power. It is a dedicated P-dog gun, but I have raised a few "hares" with it. :mrgreen:


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

In its previous life (as a Remington 700 ADL), my 243 wore a Burris 4-12 mini. With that set up, I made the longest shot I have ever made. It was on a potgut up on Skyline Drive that was over 600 yards away. That was before the days of the laser range finder, So we guessed and shot then used the bullet strike (or a spotter) to see where to hold for the next shot. I hit it with the 3rd shot. After being rebuild as a dedicated varminter with a 26 inch straight tapered barrel, and target stock, it now wears a 4-16 Redfield. I have never felt the need for a larger scope. A good friend of mine likes the higher magnification scopes, but they get turned down when the mirage gets bad. On a rifle used for running rabbits, (like my AR15), I prefer a lower magnification scope to get a larger field of view. It all depends what you are going to use it for.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

The primary uses will be coyotes, rabbits, p-dogs, and other like creatures. Other than that, just bench shooting, which I will be doing as much or more than hunting. I'd like to see the holes I put in paper also.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

I like to use a spotting scope to see holes in the target.


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

So i have a fairly new .243 and it is a great gun and I am planning on killin some skinhead Lopes with it this year and I had the impression, from shooting the gun and looking at stats in the shooters bible, that the gun would not be very effective on big game passed 300 yards.
I was having a discussion with an individual at work and he was telling me about his dad and his love for his .243. He then mentioned about how is father has taken many deer at 600 to 1000 yards with the rifle. Now I know that most guys ( that dont put in the work) can not do this. But what I am wondering is if this is in any way possible with this caliber? My jedi senses were telling me that this dude was blowing "smoke" but would it be at all possible with that one golden bullet?


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

jhunter said:


> I was having a discussion with an individual at work and he was telling me about his dad and his love for his .243. He then mentioned about how is father has taken many deer at 600 to 1000 yards with the rifle.


Blowin smoke.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

NHS said:


> jhunter said:
> 
> 
> > I was having a discussion with an individual at work and he was telling me about his dad and his love for his .243. He then mentioned about how is father has taken many deer at 600 to 1000 yards with the rifle.
> ...


 :lol: Blowing it or smokin it :lol:


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Where can I buy one of them rangefinders that measures a 10" yard?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> Where can I buy one of them rangefinders that measures a 10" yard?


They used one of these to measure:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

There you go again with that odd tape measure! You must have once been a surveyor; however, we used to measure in tenths and hundredths. The caption under the tape still has me confussed brother. :shock: 500 to 1000 yards eh? Sheesh I used to do that with my old 30-30 and a Lyman tang site. :roll: Oh, and I never lie when I play cards.


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

:shock: thanks guys!


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