# Muzzle Loader Bullets?



## buck

Hey Y'all, Im a long time reader, but newly resisted. You guys have a great community here and im excited to help where i can. 
I drew a dedicated deer tag this year and will be trying out muzzleloader hunting for my first time ever. Iv mostly hunted with my bow and sometimes my rifle.
I am going to purchase a CVA Accura LR, but I don't know yet what bullet i should shoot? My buddy shoots powerbelts and a guy at sportsmans recommended Thor bullets. Any thoughts for me?
I think I am going to use Blackhorn 209 if anyone has any thoughts here as well.
Also it seems some people measure the powder by volume and some by weight. Im guessing by weight is a little more consistent, is this correct? 

Anyways, thanks for the help and any pointers you guys are willing to share.


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## PBH

I switched to the Federal muzzy bullets last year. I've only shot targets with them so far, but they have significantly improved the accuracy of my Winchester muzzy rifle. I was previously shooting Powerbelts, and just never had any confidence in hitting a target with them -- I was always crossing my fingers...

You'll need to shoot multiple different bullets to figure out what your rifle likes. Good luck!

https://www.federalpremium.com/muzzleloading/11-PMZ50TC1.html


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## buck

PBH, Thank you for the information! I will definitely add those Federal bullets to my list to try out! Thanks for adding the link as well.


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## Critter

While hunting in Utah I have been using Barnes TEZ bullets. They group well and I have had complete pass through on the deer that I have taken. 

For Colorado I have been using Thor 300 grains for elk and 250 for deer. 

Powder is up to you. I get my best grouping with the Thor's using plain old Pyrodex but swapped over to 209 for my Utah hunt last year.


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## High Desert Elk

Been shooting precision rifle bullets and BH 209 for an upcoming youth muzzy antelope hunt in early August. Fouling shot is about 3 inches from susequent dirty shots. Dirty shots cut the same hole when I do my part.


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## brisket

Barnes Spit Fire TMZ/TEZ.

https://www.barnesbullets.com/muzzleloaders/spit-fire-tmz/

If the TMZ is a little tight, try the TEZ, it's the same bullet with a thinner sabot.


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## RemingtonCountry

I can't say enough good things about Barnes TMZ and T-EZ, both have exceeded every expectation I had for them. Some take it to the next level and shoot Cutting Edge, Harvester, or Parker Productions but I have never felt the need.


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## derekp1999

I shoot 300gr Hornady XTP-MAG bullets in TC Super Glide sabots (yellow). Buy them separately and you'll save yourself some cash rather than buying the "pre-assembled" 20 packs. From Sportsman's Warehouse I buy a 50ct box of bullets from the reloading section for $19 and then a 50ct package of TC Super Glide sabots for $10... 50 bullets for $30 is better than 20 bullets for $20.

This has been my go to round for the last several years... shoots great and performs very well terminally. I'm more than comfortable with this combination out to 250 yards. 

My son shoots the 250gr Hornady XTP in the same TC Super Glide sabots and those are even cheaper at $29 for a box of 100 and they shoot just as good with a bit less recoil. Get a box of those and two packs of the sabots and you have 100 rounds for $50... not bad.


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## Lone_Hunter

+1 on Barnes TEZ


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## taxidermist

This question has been debated many times here. Lots of different recommendations as well. 


Not ALL ML shoot the same projectile/powder combo the same. (I own 7 and a couple wont shoot what my CVA likes) 


I have great accuracy, and DOI shots using a .44 300gr. Hornady XTP bullet with 110gr. volume of 777 powder. Killed Elk at 220yds. and deer at 250yds. When I say "killed" its just that! dropped them in their tracks and didn't have to track.


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## byuduckhunter

I have had good success with Thor bullets. Killed a moose with it with 90 grain 777. Complete pass through but it was at 40 yards. Exit hole was about 2 inches wide. I was sold when i was at the range and hit a rock behind the paper target and split the boulder in half and the bullet had retained almost all it's weight. 

Having said all that I drew a Monroe muzzy elk tag this year and I ordered a box of Barnes TEZs and look forward to seeing how they shoot. I've never hunted where sabots are legal until now. If for some reason I can't get it to group I will have no reservations with using thors. I will also be using 209s and BH powder so I'm excited to see if all the hype is justified.


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## DallanC

44cal 240 gr XTPs for deer, 300gr XTPs for Elk. They work unbelievably well, and super accurate in allllllll my guns. I love them in Hornady green sabots over 90 grains of RS for deer, or 110 grains of RS for Elk.

I buy bulk handloader boxes, 240s come 100 per box, 300s are 50 per box. 

-DallanC


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## DallanC

Critter said:


> Powder is up to you. I get my best grouping with the Thor's using plain old Pyrodex but swapped over to 209 for my Utah hunt last year.


Me too... I'm on the fence about sticking with BH209 or going back to pyro. I still had to swab between shots with BH209... sucked. RS was still more accurate. I did crono BH209... fractionally better than RS but nothing close to book #'s.

That #### peppered the hell out of my crono though... it was not getting a full clean burn.

-DallanC


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## buck

Wow, I cant thank everyone enough. This is a lot of great information! Just like some of you have said, different combination work better in different guns, so i figured i would use this info to point me towards a few different options to try out and i definitely got that. Thank you guys so much. I can't wait to hit the range and start putting some rounds into paper to see what works best. 
Im excited to hunt the muzzleloader season and see what its like, as i said i typically hunt with my Bow when the bucks are easy to find, hard to shoot. Or with my rifle when the bucks are hard to find AND hard to shoot haha.


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## buck

Question, is there a like button or something similar to let everybody know i read and appreciate their responses, or do i need to reply to each one?


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## Critter

buck said:


> Question, is there a like button or something similar to let everybody know i read and appreciate their responses, or do i need to reply to each one?


Right hand side just under the post if you are using a computer

For a phone it is usually right at the bottom of the post


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## buck

Critter said:


> Right hand side just under the post if you are using a computer
> 
> For a phone it is usually right at the bottom of the post


Well look at that... I don't know how I missed that. Thanks Critter!


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## buck

derekp1999 said:


> I shoot 300gr Hornady XTP-MAG bullets in TC Super Glide sabots (yellow). Buy them separately and you'll save yourself some cash rather than buying the "pre-assembled" 20 packs. From Sportsman's Warehouse I buy a 50ct box of bullets from the reloading section for $19 and then a 50ct package of TC Super Glide sabots for $10... 50 bullets for $30 is better than 20 bullets for $20.
> 
> This has been my go to round for the last several years... shoots great and performs very well terminally. I'm more than comfortable with this combination out to 250 yards.
> 
> My son shoots the 250gr Hornady XTP in the same TC Super Glide sabots and those are even cheaper at $29 for a box of 100 and they shoot just as good with a bit less recoil. Get a box of those and two packs of the sabots and you have 100 rounds for $50... not bad.


Thanks for the advice on the cheaper way to do it. Im always down to save a little more money for the next adventure... Thanks!


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## DallanC

buck said:


> Wow, I cant thank everyone enough. This is a lot of great information! Just like some of you have said, different combination work better in different guns, so i figured i would use this info to point me towards a few different options to try out and i definitely got that.


Make some Smokepole friends, see if they cant send you some different bullet / sabot combos to try before you commit to buying large amounts of bullets that might not shoot well.

I detest barnes, but I know there is a huge number of people who love them. I love XTPs, seen some amazing results... know of very very few people that dont like them. Powerbelts have a reputation for failures when hitting heavy bone as the lead is too soft.

/shrug

-DallanC


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## DallanC

derekp1999 said:


> Get a box of those and two packs of the sabots and you have 100 rounds for $50... not bad.


After the sandy hook shooting and the subsequent run on shooting ammo and components, those hornady sabots were SUPER hard to find. I ended up finding a online website that was clearing otu old stock and I ordered 8 packs. More than enough to last my hunting career. They screwed up the order... sent 8 packs and a knife I didnt order... I reported the knife and asked if they wanted me to send it back. Soemwhere wires got crossed, and they sent me 8 more packs of sabots.

I now have 16 packs of hornady sabots here at the house... lol. And they never got back to me to send back the knife (really neat ceramic blade).

-DallanC


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## Raptorman

I have had good luck with Barnes. They shoot well and stay together really well. Killed a couple elk with them. My dad has done the same with Hornady SST, but some do not like them. I think any of the ones mentioned will serve you well as long as you get good results in your practice. I will say, I couldn't load the Barnes TMZ in my TC Omega, so I used TEZ. In my Accura the TMZ were tight but not too tight so I have used them. I shoot Triple 7 Mag pellets and they shoot really well out of my gun. 

I am switching to a new gun this year for my deer hunt, and will be trying out BH209, so I am curious to see how it does.


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## DallanC

Raptorman said:


> ]My dad has done the same with Hornady SST, but some do not like them.


SST is a much different construction than the XTPs. They are more aerodynamic but a much weaker construction. Thats were alot of the criticism of them come from.



> I am switching to a new gun this year for my deer hunt, and will be trying out BH209, so I am curious to see how it does.


I'd be interested to here what your thoughts are. I've been pretty vocal about my findings. 8)

-DallanC


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## Raptorman

DallanC said:


> SST is a much different construction than the XTPs. They are more aerodynamic but a much weaker construction. Thats were alot of the criticism of them come from.
> 
> I'd be interested to here what your thoughts are. I've been pretty vocal about my findings. 8)
> 
> -DallanC


That's what I have heard on the SST's he has two bulls killed with one shot. But neither hit bone and were well placed shots (One was at about 10 yards). So I chose not to use them for the "just in case" scenario.

Yeah, I am curious to see how it goes, honestly the most appealing thing to me was not swabbing after every shot. But is sounds like you had to anyways, so I may go a difference route as well. Gotta hit the range and find out.


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## buck

DallanC said:


> Make some Smokepole friends, see if they cant send you some different bullet / sabot combos to try before you commit to buying large amounts of bullets that might not shoot well.
> 
> I detest barnes, but I know there is a huge number of people who love them. I love XTPs, seen some amazing results... know of very very few people that dont like them. Powerbelts have a reputation for failures when hitting heavy bone as the lead is too soft.
> 
> /shrug
> 
> -DallanC


Haha my hunting circle is pretty small, only one who shoots muzzleloaders and he has offered to share some powerbelts with me to sight in. Otherwise great advice, it would be nice if i could buy a sampling pack of different rounds to try out. I'll look into the XTPS's, thanks!


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## DallanC

Raptorman said:


> That's what I have heard on the SST's he has two bulls killed with one shot. But neither hit bone and were well placed shots (One was at about 10 yards). So I chose not to use them for the "just in case" scenario.


Yea exactly. An uncountable number of bulls have been killed with roundballs slipped between the ribs, but you want that heavier constructed bullet on that off chance something does go wrong. Deer it really doesnt matter IMO, they just dont have as heavy of bones to really stop most ML rounds from poking holes inside and out the other. I've recovered two 240gr XTPs from deer, both were quartering shots and both times the bullet went through 30" of deer. Pretty cool.



> Yeah, I am curious to see how it goes, honestly the most appealing thing to me was not swabbing after every shot. But is sounds like you had to anyways, so I may go a difference route as well. Gotta hit the range and find out.


That was the whole reason I switched, and one of the reasons I'm still a bit ticked off that it wasnt the case. It is really expensive powder for what it is. It might be less corrosive than BP, but its still filthy.

For reference:

https://utahwildlife.net/forum/14-muzzleloaders/195709-bh209-powder-filthy.html

-DallanC


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## Critter

Here are a couple of pictures of a 300 grain Thor that hit a elk at 120 yards with a new bullet for comparison. It was resting on the far side skin. It broke ribs going in and coming out. Two other hits on the same elk were pass through shots.


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## High Desert Elk

buck said:


> Haha my hunting circle is pretty small, only one who shoots muzzleloaders and he has offered to share some powerbelts with me to sight in. Otherwise great advice, it would be nice if i could buy a sampling pack of different rounds to try out. I'll look into the XTPS's, thanks!


You can get 20 Hornady for around $15 - $20 I think. I'd use those to sight in with and get started.

I've had mixed results with Powerbelt, but it's probably operator error...


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## Raptorman

Here is a Barnes 290 TMZ I pulled out of my LE Bull. It is not the best pic as it is in a framed picture my wife had made for me after the hunt. But you get the idea, really impressed by the bullet performance.


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## middlefork

buck said:


> Haha my hunting circle is pretty small, only one who shoots muzzleloaders and he has offered to share some powerbelts with me to sight in. Otherwise great advice, it would be nice if i could buy a sampling pack of different rounds to try out. I'll look into the XTPS's, thanks!


Not sure where you are located but I have some SST that I seem to have inherited if you want to give them a try.

Shoot me a PM


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## taxidermist

Buck, I think I have a bottle of BH 209 that I fired maybe 8 rounds from. I didn't like the results from the BH so, I would be willing to help you out with finding a powder/bullet combo. Shoot me a PM if interested. 


As Dallan stated - It can get expensive when trying out new components for the smoke pole.


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## colorcountrygunner

I figured all the recommendations would be for sabots haha. Why no love for shooting a projectile out of your muzzy that is the same size of your bore the way God intended? If you wanna shoot a conical check out a company called No Excuses. They are made by a guy here in Utah and are very reasonably priced!


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## buck

Raptorman said:


> Here is a Barnes 290 TMZ I pulled out of my LE Bull. It is not the best pic as it is in a framed picture my wife had made for me after the hunt. But you get the idea, really impressed by the bullet performance.


Thanks for the information and pictures. Congrats on the great Bull!


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## buck

Critter said:


> Here are a couple of pictures of a 300 grain Thor that hit a elk at 120 yards with a new bullet for comparison. It was resting on the far side skin. It broke ribs going in and coming out. Two other hits on the same elk were pass through shots.


That looks like great bullet expansion. The guy at sportsmans really liked the Thor bullets, and they were one i had not heard of prior to talking to him. 
This may be a whole other question, but i also do not have my mind made up on what number of grain bullet i should shoot. As always I'm sure ill need to test out a few variations, but im curious why you chose the 300 grain bullet here?


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## Critter

Elk are big tough animals and I was hunting in Colorado which does not allow sabots, pellets, or scopes on the muzzle loaders. 

That along with the fact that I got some great grouping with the 300 grain Thor's over 90 grains by measure of Pyrodex. 


Before you purchase a box of Thor's you need to get a sample kit that will give you 4 bullets of different diameter. .500, .501, .502, and .503. You then see which one fits best in the barrel of your rifle. The rifle that I shoot them out of is a Thompson Center Triumph which takes a .501 diameter. These samples used to be free but they now charge a small fee for them.


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## RemingtonCountry

Here is a picture of a 250 gr Barnes TMZ that I found in the ground after passing through both shoulders of my cousins mule deer. Deer dropped in its tracks.


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## Packout

Don't discount the Powerbelts if they shoot well in your gun. I've killed many mule deer and mature bull elk with them. I've also used XTPs and SSTs. But I also shoot roundballs much of the time so.......


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## nickpan

I've got the CVA Optima .50 and it does the job with Hornady SSTs just fine for deer. Fairly accurate too. Last two deer were each about 120 yards quartering away. One broke ribs in and out, pass through. Other went in just at the last set of ribs all the way through the heart and buried halfway into the shoulder on the opposite side, pretty much had to chisel it out. Both didn't take another step.

Shoots 1-1.25" groups consistently with 100 grains Triple 777 pellets.

I've been interested in switching to the XTPs and separate sabots as well to get more round for my money. Just need to do it.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buck

nickpan said:


> I've got the CVA Optima .50 and it does the job with Hornady SSTs just fine for deer. Fairly accurate too. Last two deer were each about 120 yards quartering away. One broke ribs in and out, pass through. Other went in just at the last set of ribs all the way through the heart and buried halfway into the shoulder on the opposite side, pretty much had to chisel it out. Both didn't take another step.
> 
> Shoots 1-1.25" groups consistently with 100 grains Triple 777 pellets.
> 
> I've been interested in switching to the XTPs and separate sabots as well to get more round for my money. Just need to do it.
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great shooting! Thanks for the information!


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## buck

Critter said:


> Before you purchase a box of Thor's you need to get a sample kit that will give you 4 bullets of different diameter. .500, .501, .502, and .503. You then see which one fits best in the barrel of your rifle. The rifle that I shoot them out of is a Thompson Center Triumph which takes a .501 diameter. These samples used to be free but they now charge a small fee for them.


Thanks for letting me know about the sample kits. Thats new to me as well!


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## Topdogjr2002

Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions, particularly about the thor sample pack. I'm going to try some out in the future. To chip a little, I've had luck with 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards with 100 gr 777 powder and both the T/C Shockwave 250 gr sabots and the 250 gr Hornady lock n load speed shots SST ML. Both have shot essentially the same from my T/C .50 Cal Encore.


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