# Concealed carry permits are unconstitutional



## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

I am getting ready for my final dissertation in a class and happen to have a teacher that is extremely against the 2nd amendment and any gun ownership. Rather than rolling over and playing dead, I'm going to argue that concealed carry permits are unconstitutional. The 2nd amendment should be a legal, felon-free, law abiding citizen's permit to carry. Do you need a government issued permit to practice a religion? Do you need a government issued permit to speak freely? No other constitutional right requires a government issued permit except for the 2nd amendment. I'd like to stay as focused on this as possible, I understand a lot of other things would be necessary for this to be safe and effective, but for the sake of length and time I am only focusing on how concealed carry permits are unconstitutional.

My dissertation isn't due for a few weeks so I'm hoping to get some more views on this. As always, valid citations used in your posts would be greatly appreciated! Maybe I've just spent too much time on the waterfowl forum that seems full of childish bickering, and my unfounded idea is better than yours, but let's not turn this into a 8 page thread full of ego's and name calling. Thanks for the help!


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I have nothing to add but my support. I agree that they are unconstitutional for the same reasons you have listed. The point I like to make to people who get offended by that view is that the constitution says I have the right to carry but it does not say you are protected from being offended.


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## 2litl2l8 (Jan 16, 2008)

Don't know how the admins feel about posting links to another forum but...http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com would be a great source for you and there a few of the guys there that really know their stuff and love to give citation to their research.

****Edited by Bax* for ease of using link


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I support your idea, but having recently graduated from the U of U, I just want to make sure you dont shoot yourself in the foot (so to speak). Sadly there are sooooo many professors with their own political agenda that take great offense to people with opposing views and I dont want you to end up having to fight for a good grade.

So I might suggest making sure that you have copies of all of your assignments / tests in hand in preparation for going to the dean.

Honestly I hope it doesnt come down to that, but I fear that some professors dont take criticism well


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Also be prepared for the argument that the concealed carry permit is to prevent "crazies" from having a gun. Use the argument that crazies like David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite, and Jim Jones (to name a few) didnt need a permit to cause the damage that they did!


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

Good luck with your dissertation. Just some arguments to consider--there are other rights, both specific and implied that require a permit or license to exercise the right. For example, the first ammendment states that we have the right to peacably assemble. For some organized demonstrations a permit may be required. We all have "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." These rights aren't all specifically defined, but could include things like buying or selling certain goods or services, getting married, driving, building a home, hunting, fishing, etc... These all require a permit/license. 

It can also be argued that one role of government in protecting our rights is to provide a level of protection and safety (speed limits, building codes, military, police forces, etc...) While requiring a cwp doesn't really protect us from criminals, mentally ill folks, and vigilantes, (they'll just get a gun and use it anyway) it could be argued that that is the intent of the permit. 

Let us know how it goes. Is it a panel of professors? What are the others like?


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Here is some free advice from a licensed English professor (yep, me :mrgreen: ):

Follow your rubric to a _T_. Make sure your citation is perfect, both in-text and on your works cited page. Be certain that your sources are legitimate research organizations, not some yahoo on the web. Make your formatting perfect. APA was recently updated so make sure you are using the correct edition. Double and triple check the paper for errors.

If you finish your paper early, feel free to shoot me a copy of your rubric and your paper and I'll be more than glad to look it over for you so that you can make revisions. Like everyone else, teachers are people with opinions. The teacher can only grade your paper against the rubric, but they might take a _very_ close look at your paper if they feel strongly about the issue. That's only human nature. Your paper will not be graded kindly if there is plagiarism in any form, whether done intentionally or not. Mistakes will be caught because the professor is looking more closely at your paper than they might at a less interesting piece.

The wonderful thing about most professors that I have ever encountered is that they appreciate solid research whether they agree with the argument or not. Professors are professional researchers. They know how difficult it is to find legitimate sources and to quote, paraphrase, summarize, and cite all sources correctly. Make your research solid in any class and you can almost guarantee yourself an _A_ grade.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Now that this thread has received a few points of insight, I would really like to read your paper once it is done. There have been some excellent points made!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Bax* said:


> I support your idea, but having recently graduated from the U of U, I just want to make sure you dont shoot yourself in the foot (so to speak). Sadly there are sooooo many professors with their own political agenda that take great offense to people with opposing views and I dont want you to end up having to fight for a good grade.


I wrote two papers on similar topics to a much smaller degree to two very liberal professors and both of them congratulated me for taking on topics to which they knew that they disagreed strongly and really stuck to the formatting more than the topic. It almost seemed to make them go easy on me since they wanted to appear to be so unbiased...a good experience on both occasions.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Huge29 said:


> Bax* said:
> 
> 
> > I support your idea, but having recently graduated from the U of U, I just want to make sure you dont shoot yourself in the foot (so to speak). Sadly there are sooooo many professors with their own political agenda that take great offense to people with opposing views and I dont want you to end up having to fight for a good grade.
> ...


You are very fortunate Huge

I wrote a paper on the benefits of exposing children to hunting and fishing my last year at the U for a marketing proposal and the professor told me that I shouldnt write about barbaric topics and to stick to more civilized topics!


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Although it was on a non-hunting topic I wrote a paper on a topic and stance which I knew my professor strongly disagreed with but my experience was more like Huge's. I got an A and lots of compliments from her and of course the last line said she disagreed with me and included a smiley face.

On the topic of concealed permits be sure to respresent both sides of the argument but be clear on why you feel your side of the argument is stronger. I would suggest that in part that you focus on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of the concealed carry program. You could make the same argument for all gun laws. Only honest people bother with them and they aren't the ones you need to worry about.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

As mentioned, the rubric is everything. If possible, you might do better if you changed your topic from a declaration to a question. Are CC permits unconstitutional? Better yet, what are the legal "infringements" on the 2nd and/or what is the legal basis for those infringements?

Good luck!


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Bax* said:


> You are very fortunate Huge
> 
> I wrote a paper on the benefits of exposing children to hunting and fishing my last year at the U for a marketing proposal and the professor told me that I shouldnt write about barbaric topics and to stick


What an ass!!


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Very helpful. I'll try to answer a few of those questions:

Bax- I understand where you are coming from, my professor is a very fair grader. As long as the format is followed he has graded me very fair. Our last paper was on the legalization of marijuana, (which he was for) the whole class took his side and I was the only opposing view and had good sources and he respected that.

Birddogger- Thanks for those reminders. I actually have to give a 7 minute speech on it and just turn in a works cited page, so as long as my works cited is formatted and I cite all my sources after my information I should be good. Are you teaching English somewhere now?

Finnegan- My topic has to be a statement, not a question.

Thanks for the help, it should go well.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Birddogger- Thanks for those reminders. I actually have to give a 7 minute speech on it and just turn in a works cited page, so as long as my works cited is formatted and I cite all my sources after my information I should be good. Are you teaching English somewhere now?


I've taught English classes for the past decade. I'm currently a vice-principal intern looking for a job in administration.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

I've written similar papers in classes where the professors had differing opinions. One good place to find itemized facts about firearm stats and facts is the .pdf file on http://www.gunfacts.info Like others said, make sure you properly source your information, and if possible, double check any second-hand info. If you would like to read through an 18 page research report I did a few years ago on concealed carry on Utah's college campuses send me a PM.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

Also, here's a couple of quotes I have found to be very helpful in reports and presentations.

“This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” - Adolf Hitler, April 15th, 1935.

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms.	History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order…” - Adolf Hitler, April 11, 1942.


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