# 440" Bull......is it true??



## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

I have heard rumors of a 440" bull being taken in Utah? Anyone have confrimation or pictures yet? I hear Doyle was the guide so I am sure we will not see any pics for a while? Anyone know for sure??? :shock: :shock:


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

*Pic!*

It could be true, after all I did see this bull over the weekend. *()*


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Looks like he saw you too. Great pic.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

thats a nice pic and a nice looking bull. thank for sharing the pic. I have not heard anything about the new state bull.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I think it would be sweet if it was a DIY hunt in the backcountry somewhere.... of course, guided or not, thats a real pig of a bull..... 8)


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Heres the low down,

Helicopters Strawberry roads being blocked facts Sportsmens tag holder 440 Pahvant 15 to 20 Mossback 420 pushing elk Sportsmens tag holder already filled tag archery rumors rifle. Any questions?


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## RuttCrazed (Sep 7, 2007)

What?

I guess it is time for a "my brother's girlfriend's aunt's nephew's cousin talked to a guy who said his neighbor's dad's mechanic told him....." story!

Rut


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

If it is true, I'm sure confirmation will come shortly. It is hard to hide a 440 bull forever.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I not only heard the rumor, but was told it was on display in Richfield last night. Supposedly, the animal was taken by an archery hunter yesterday off the Pahvant unit and is unofficially a new world record.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

What about the one from the Books last year. Did they ever find a hole in its ear from a tag? Did any thing ever come from it? There has NEVER been a bull even remotely close to that size come off from the books. No one had seen that bull before it was killed but suposidly the guide service that killed it. It smells way too fishy to me.

disclaimer: I have been wrong before so if any of my facts are not strait, then blame it on me.  *()*


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm hearing that it is legit...although Mossback hasn't put it on their site yet. Supposedly killed aboved holden (Pahvant). It is a 6x7, the extra being a brow tine. It is supposed to score 443 gross and high 430's net...so it wouldn't be a world record.


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## miagenboy (Sep 12, 2007)

I have seen this bull a lot and I know that they were still chasing it up and down roads last weekend. Yesterday morning I had to go bury my black lab up on the mountain  and saw that they had killed a bull. I'm guessing it is the same one. It was all the same people that were in the trucks last weekend. I guessed this bull when he was alive at about 420-430. Guessing by the army that was around it after the kill it had to be this bull.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

I hope there are pics of this badboy!


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## ClintW (Sep 15, 2007)

We are waiting and watching for a picture. I've got to see this to belive it. :shock: :shock:


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I have a friend down in Richfeild he saw this bull at the "viewing" true story. I really could care less! *()*


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## jeff70 (Sep 16, 2007)

I have seen the pics, can't find a link to post but this thing is a monster


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## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

I just got a picture on my phone today. I cant get it off of my phone, but it is a complete STUD!!!!!!!!!!! Its front end is unreal!!!!!!!! *()* *()* *()* *()* *()*


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## HUNTIN FOR LIFE (Sep 8, 2007)

Hurry check it out this pic wont last long it has been deleted 3 times already.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... /8270.html


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

Lets see if they delete it here


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

HOLY CRAP! What a monster!!!!


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## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

Ahhh, you beat me to it NHS............I was just about to post the same picture!!!

Now it is all over the place!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

So.... call me stupid or whatever.... but what gives it that huge score?? It looks to be a 6 X 6 right?? Is it the long points and main beam its got? I'm sure the mass is huge but do they count spreads as part of the score? Just curious... not trying to bring down the bull... it truly is magnificent. :shock:


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## Extex (Sep 11, 2007)

Our local paper says it is a green scored as a new state record and #2 world record - 443 gross 427 net non-typical - I don't think the picture does it justice if it scores that high.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

*Scoring*

Ahh, a topic that always seems to arise where outdoorsmen gather: SCORING. How to score, where to score, difficulty of scoring, and what type of trophy quality is worth scoring.

The total score of a bull's antlers is a combination of tine length, beam length, several key spread measurements, and girth at selected points. Mass is a big factor, acting as a multiplier of sorts.

Anyway, if you've never seen the scoring charts, it helps to have a visual:

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords ... erican+Elk


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Just out of curiousity... the form shows measurements for seven points.... what if there are more than that?? Are they counted as non typical points after seven?


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## pickaspot (Sep 19, 2007)

That is definately a unique bull. His main beam on our right hand side disappears into the night? Where is the sixth point? Is it just difficult to see in this picture? His left side is also unique in the back. His fronts are amazing and he has some cool little devil nubs! If he is a 440 bull this picture does not do him justice. He would be a trophy to me though. But then, a 340 bull would be a trophy to me :lol:


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## lifetime hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

someone just posted a picture that Doyle agreed to show people... :roll:

but here is the link.... posted by "HUNTIN FOR LIFE" http://muleymadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4376


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## ClintW (Sep 15, 2007)

The 1's 2's 3's heck it's all huge, I belive!!!! :shock:


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## pickaspot (Sep 19, 2007)

UNBELIEVABLE!!


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Does anyone know if Pro guided this big bugger? :shock:


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

i don't think so i think pro is on the dutton this bull was on the pahvant.


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## archery (Sep 7, 2007)

holy crap thats huge. the gene pool on that mountain is amazing. i think i'll start selling drugs or something so i can afford to hunt there. seriously though that is amazing. congrats to hunters and guides. Guess i'll have to buy another of doyles nice dvds to see the show.


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## Knowlton (Sep 19, 2007)

:shock:


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> you could also make some serious cash transporting as well


Are you saying what I think your saying????


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

pickaspot said:


> That is definately a unique bull. His main beam on our right hand side disappears into the night? Where is the sixth point? Is it just difficult to see in this picture? His left side is also unique in the back. His fronts are amazing and he has some cool little devil nubs! If he is a 440 bull this picture does not do him justice. He would be a trophy to me though. But then, a 340 bull would be a trophy to me :lol:


I figured there was a hidden 6th on the left antler... didn't know about the seven on the right though.... very cool!!!


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## archery (Sep 7, 2007)

thanks EHF for ratting me out. now the feds know what to look for. I gotta go down there and spend a few days flying that unit and see whats around. just for the record , i hate drugs and am just kidding. i actually lost my oldest son to drugs. So i would never be that dumb.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Thats a huge bull! congrats to the hunter.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Last time I spoke with Pre, he said he had his eye on a 440 bull. I will be shocked if he did not guide this hunter.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Go to the Mosscrack website and there is a picture with 9 or 10 of the mullet heads with the bull and see if Pouts is one of them. I have no idea who or what Pouts looks like, but I doubt he is one of them.


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

That is one amazingly large animal :!: I'm excited to read the story about this one *()* . Congrats to the hunter and the guides.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

A little side note to this bull:

I have some friends/neighbors who hunted the pahvant hard this fall trying to help some family members get bulls. To make a long story short, Moss and his posse repeatedly chased away anybody who came near this bull. I have an exceptionally hard time with the way many guides operate...I really hope that Utah starts changing their guiding laws. I am no fan of Moss or his tactics...this bull has been no different--public land, but not fair chase!


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> A little side note to this bull:
> 
> I have some friends/neighbors who hunted the pahvant hard this fall trying to help some family members get bulls. To make a long story short, Moss and his posse repeatedly chased away anybody who came near this bull. I have an exceptionally hard time with the way many guides operate...I really hope that Utah starts changing their guiding laws. I am no fan of Moss or his tactics...this bull has been no different--public land, but not fair chase!


I keep hearing stories like this. What I would like to know is how are the chasing any one away from the bull? Dont get me worng I am not beliving it but just want to know how you push people away from a bull on public land.


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## lifetime hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

guess this is why i hardly ever post.. everything gets ripped to shreads....


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

He is not in those pics.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Look, I really really don't like Mosscrack or his little Mullet heads he has chasing bulls around, but come on, "his posse would chase away anybody who came near the bull." And just how were they chasing people away? "Barricades on roads with Mosscrack logos on them? Trucks blocking roads with Mosscrack stickers on them, 15 to 20 Mosscrack mullet heads chasing bulls so other hunters can't get them BLAH BLAH BLAH the list goes on. DOES ANYONE CARRY A CAMERA WITH THEM WHEN THEY HUNT ANYMORE?????? I would love to see pics of barricades with Mosscrack logos on them!!! I would love to see a pic of 15 to 20 mullet heads chasing elk around. I want to see a pic. of the Mosscrack posse telling someone they can't hunt in a certain area!!! We hear all this every year, year end and year out but nobody never has any proof, its all "my uncles sons nephews cousins brother got chased off by Mosscrack". It trully is getting old.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

+1, good post BlackDog!


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

+2


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## archery (Sep 7, 2007)

+3


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

I HAVE SEEN THIS WITH MY OWN EYES!!!!! and have alot of friends that have told me of such encounters also! and YES I BELIEVE THEM.... WHY MAKE UP LIES ABOUT SOME IDIOT GUIDE????
And no I don’t go hunting with a camera it is big & bulky so it stays back at camp! (I didn’t have the luxury of a pocket sized one until this year!) and after such comments I think even if I showed pictures some idiot would still not believe them … they would be.. oh that is photo shopped!!! So to each his own… :evil:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Here comes all the lame stories again about Mossback.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

luv2hunt said:


> I HAVE SEEN THIS WITH MY OWN EYES!!!!! and have alot of friends that have told me of such encounters also! and YES I BELIEVE THEM.... WHY MAKE UP LIES ABOUT SOME IDIOT GUIDE????
> And no I don't go hunting with a camera it is big & bulky so it stays back at camp! (I didn't have the luxury of a pocket sized one until this year!) and after such comments I think even if I showed pictures some idiot would still not believe them &#8230; they would be.. oh that is photo shopped!!! So to each his own&#8230; :evil:


These "*stories*" without a single ounce of *proof* get old, and make those telling the stories look sillier every year. Do you people have no lives and no self-pride? Grow up and act like men instead of little old ladies! :roll:

PRO


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

*"Jealousy, night and day it touchers me"* ....La da da da de de deeeee......


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

[quote="proutdoors
These "*stories*" without a single ounce of *proof* get old, and make those telling the stories look sillier every year. Do you people have no lives and no self-pride? Grow up and act like men instead of little old ladies! :roll:

PRO[/quote]

what.. seeing it with my own eyes isn't PROOF???


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Luv2hunt, Doyle Moss wouldnt jepeardize his guiding outfit to do these lame acts that you claim you saw. He doesnt even need to do this lame acts that you are claiming he does to harvest great bulls. You have nothing to back up your statement so therefore you have no Proof.


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Luv2hunt, Doyle Moss wouldnt jepeardize his guiding outfit to do these lame acts that you claim you saw. He doesnt even need to do this lame acts that you are claiming he does to harvest great bulls. You have nothing to back up your statement so therefore you have no Proof.


wow... never been called a liar before.. thanks coyoteslayer.. hope it was good for you as it was for me! so lame... now I know why the DWR forum was terminated! :roll: people can't even tell others what they see... unless we have pictures to PROVE IT!!!

talk about



proutdoors said:


> Do you people have no lives and no self-pride? Grow up and act like men instead of little old ladies! :roll: PRO


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## SFWG (Sep 8, 2007)

All I know is that Hogan has the BEST avatar.


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

Matt said:


> All I know is that Hogan has the BEST avatar.


+1

glad it's not a little old lady!! :lol:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Let's take it easy on the unsubstantiated claims. If you have some sort of proof, you are more than welcome to post it and we will invite the alleged parties to explain. Otherwise, please donot accuse someone that is not here to defend themselves. Besides, your gonna get pro 86ed again and that aint cool.  How goes it pro? You grow yourself a mullet yet?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

No mullet Ty. I am done for a while with 'chasing hunters out of areas, blocking roads, herding monster bulls with copters, telling campers to leave the vicinity, etc.'. :mrgreen:

I leave for a month, and I come back to the DWR site being shut down, and the same lamea$$ garbage of people making *PERSONAL* attacks on people trying to make a lilving. I find this childish and puzzling. How does making unverifiable claims about a fellow person help the hunting world? Does this kind of silliness make one feel better about their own short-comings?

Get a life and worry about your own dam# selves!!

PRO


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Its good to have you back Pro. We sure did miss you this last month. Hope you had fun.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

JuddCT said:


> Its good to have you back Pro. We sure did miss you this last month. Hope you had fun.


Thanks. It's good to be back. I had a blast and made some great memories. Although, chasing other hunters off got tiring after awhile. 

PRO


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

fatbass said:


> PRO, Bustin' windows and slashin' tires really takes it out of you I'll bet! :mrgreen: Did you just borrow some orange barrels from the interstate to block off the roads for all the other hunters? :wink: :roll:
> 
> Welcome back. Share some stories when you get some time.


Get me an avatar setup with my old stand-by, and I will share some stories. :wink:

I work for one of the utilies, so getting orange cones was easy! :twisted:

PRO


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

WOW.. 


Sorry for telling everyone what I saw… Guess everyone has to keep their mouth shut unless they have pictures for proof!!

Welcome back pro.. and thanks for my new signature!! :mrgreen:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> Welcome back pro.. and thanks for my new signature!!


Glad I could be of help. *()*

PRO


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Sorry, but guides DO chase people off animals...the mighty dollar hard at work! Moss couldn't afford NOT to shoot big animals...his business depends on it. I really hope Utah changes its guiding laws in the future; we have a real problem on hand!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Luv2hunt, the point I was trying to make is the fact that your words mean nothing without proof. I didnt call you a liar, but I highly doubt that Doyle Moss and his guides would do such things. I bet Pro is tired of chasing people away from bulls and creating road blocks with a huge sign. "There is a hunt in progess so turn your a$$ around and get lost" :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Luv2hunt, the point I was trying to make is the fact that your words mean nothing without proof. I didnt call you a liar, but I highly doubt that Doyle Moss and his guides would do such things. I bet Pro is tired of chasing people away from bulls and creating road blocks with a huge sign. "There is a hunt in progess so turn your a$$ around and get lost" :lol: :lol: :lol:


I understand how these claims might sound.. I didn't believe them until I saw one particular incident!

and I never did any personal attacks against pro, but maybe he should talk to the his boss and have him talk to his employees that he had last year and tell them someone has seen these thing happening? and make sure it doesn't happen again! if he wants to run a clean business that's great! but he needs to do what every employer does to bad employees... fire their sorry a$$! IMHO

I've said my peace.. don't get all defensive.. just stating my opinion!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyo2ut wrote:


> Sorry, but guides DO chase people off animals...the mighty dollar hard at work! Moss couldn't afford NOT to shoot big animals...his business depends on it. I really hope Utah changes its guiding laws in the future; we have a real problem on hand!


I can give atleast two examples of "average joes" chasing off other hunters for every one you can come up with on guides doing said actions. Mossback kills big animals every year. I have been involved in several of them, and not *ONCE* have I been a part of any such actions, nor have I been aware of any such actions. I can get hunters in on big animals w/o doing these sort of things. I can, and I have, and I did just the other day! *()* *()* *()* *()* *()* *()*

We have a "real problem" on our hand because people spout off and make outrageous claims about people they have never met, this is much more of a threat to the future of hunting than guides/outfitters killing big animals.

PRO


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Pro, when you went to your interview didnt Doyle and you head out in the field so that you could demonstrate your road blocking skills. I think the requirement is 15 seconds for a roadblock, but you did it in 5 seconds?

Luv2hunt, I know that Doyle would fire any of his guides if they were doing such things. He hires only the best type of a guides for his guiding outfit. When I was in the bookcliffs with mossback we did create a roadblock because we had a flat tire right in the middle of the road. Is this the type of road block you are talking about????


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

coyoteslayer... nope not that kind of road block :mrgreen: will send ya a PM.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Pro, when you went to your interview didnt Doyle and you head out in the field so that you could demonstrate your road blocking skills. I think the requirement is 15 seconds for a roadblock, but you did it in 5 seconds?
> 
> Luv2hunt, I know that Doyle would fire any of his guides if they were doing such things. He hires only the best type of a guides for his guiding outfit. When I was in the bookcliffs with mossback we did create a roadblock because we had a flat tire right in the middle of the road. Is this the type of road block you are talking about????


Here's a little secret I know about pro. Before he hooked up with Doyle, He worked as a flagger for Staker. I remember seeing him on several occasions while driving to and from work. I would always think to myself-Man that guy is good at what he does- If they gave out a Heisman ttrophy for this sort of thing-He would definitely win.

So, I guess old Doyle finally saw what I saw all those years ago. So, next time you see a guy wearing 'reflective' hunter orange out on the mountain, that's old pro. And the next time you see a cleverly designed roadblock or some well placed cones or barrels, once agin pro. Just realize you are in the presence of flagger royalty and hit a knee when you see him. :wink:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

luv2hunt said:


> coyoteslayer... nope not that kind of road block :mrgreen: will send ya a PM.


Send me a PM too, I am interested to hear/see.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> Send me a PM too, I am interested to hear/see.


I think we all are.


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## luv2hunt (Sep 22, 2007)

ok fine... here is a copy of my pm... again.. sorry no pictures!

```
it was above Richfield and no it was not a "flat tire" road block.. it was filming crew filming hunt. no trespassing! talked to the guy and he said under no circumstances will we let you pass! 

hind site is 20/20 should have got him name and license plate & description of his truck.. but I was to mad to even think straight! and he had a gun.. and I had a gun.. so we just left! went to another area to avoid any confrontation. so I hope he has changed his ways and I don't ever see that again, cuz I guarantee I won't walk away again!

again didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers! i'm usually the quiet type that stands in the back ground and don't say anything.. guess I picked the wrong subject to speak up on! haha
```

sorry coyote. the guy told me who was over the operation and his boss's name.. so that's how he fits into this picture!

but like I said. got a good signature and hope ya like my avatar pic also! :mrgreen:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> but I was to mad to even think straight! and he had a gun.. and I had a gun..


I would have got out of the truck and then we would get back to back and walk our 10 paces and turned and fired


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

While I was not there when this encounter took place, I question those who claimed to be working for the "mulletman". I have known the mulletman for many years and have never heard of having any signs that say, "filming crew filming hunt". So, either the story is made-up, or those who blocked the road blamed mulletman w/o being affiliated with mulletman.

Ty, it took years of practice and dedication to get to the top of flagging and road closure effectiveness. I want to thank my parents, wife, kids, and friends who suffered while I put in those long hours on the roadside, it has finally paid-off and I have now made it to the big-time closing of choice hunting areas. *()* 

PRO


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## LizzeeB (Sep 24, 2007)

Oh my gosh, such nonsense this is! You guys whine more than most women i know. Don't you think that if Doyle Moss were doing the things you are claiming he did that the authorities would have busted his butt by now? Or do you think that the authorities are in it too! Ugh, this is so boring! Hey Mossback, congrats on killing some monster bulls this hunt, keep up the good work! And for all of you whiners out there......get off of your stupid computer and get out there and hunt! Might make you a little more tolerable!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Oh my gosh, such nonsense this is! You guys whine more than most women i know. Don't you think that if Doyle Moss were doing the things you are claiming he did that the authorities would have busted his butt by now? Or do you think that the authorities are in it too! Ugh, this is so boring! Hey Mossback, congrats on killing some monster bulls this hunt, keep up the good work! And for all of you whiners out there......get off of your stupid computer and get out there and hunt! Might make you a little more tolerable!


+1 good post


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Oh my gosh, such nonsense this is! You guys whine more than most women i know. Don't you think that if Doyle Moss were doing the things you are claiming he did that the authorities would have busted his butt by now? Or do you think that the authorities are in it too! Ugh, this is so boring! Hey Mossback, congrats on killing some monster bulls this hunt, keep up the good work! And for all of you whiners out there......get off of your stupid computer and get out there and hunt! Might make you a little more tolerable!
> 
> 
> +1 good post


lizeeb, you are one wise "hunter". Good post!

PRO


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## LizzeeB (Sep 24, 2007)

Hey, just trying to keep it real and logical....not much of that in here! Oh yeah and Pro.....i bet you look HOT in orange!!lol


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

LizzeeB said:


> Oh my gosh, such nonsense this is! You guys whine more than most women i know. Don't you think that if Doyle Moss were doing the things you are claiming he did that the authorities would have busted his butt by now? Or do you think that the authorities are in it too! Ugh, this is so boring! Hey Mossback, congrats on killing some monster bulls this hunt, keep up the good work! And for all of you whiners out there......get off of your stupid computer and get out there and hunt! Might make you a little more tolerable!


I hate to bring up the point about money easing the way for certain things and there certainly isn't any accusation here but..... I'm sure there are a lot of underhanded dealings that nobody is really aware of.... regardless of who is actually involved. That seems to be the way money/government/special interest groups work. Not to mention.... you are all about getting on here chastising people for what they say actually happened to them and then say get off the computer and hunt..... oh yes, that makes you a lot more tolerable.  If its boring to you..... why waste time reading it? You seem to know what to expect already. Is it curiousity to see for yourself what you find believable and what you think rings hollow? Do you stop and scan freeway car wrecks as well for gore and carnage and then holler at the people in front of you to keep moving?? :wink: Whether Mossback did anything "extra" to aid in the taking of this bull or not, people have had things happen to them, they were there, they know what they saw, were told or experienced and since I wasn't there, I can't say its untrue. Pro says it doesn't happen, some say it does.... I guess when somebody gets written up for it and its thrown into the paper, then we'll know for sure. Somehow I have a feeling that if somebody with money winds up being accused of certain things, money will once again pave the way for silence and it will slide out of the public view so that nobody actually knows what happened. Ah, we should all be used to it by now..... its the "dark" side of a sport that most of us participate in without a second thought unless we're involved in an "incident". Oh, and for the record, I saw a white helicopter below me.... two actually, while I was grouse hunting a ridge on the edge of the Uintas on Friday. I have no idea what they were up to, but I think they chased all the grouse out of the area because I only saw one. :wink:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

riverratt, I believe if a CO could bust mulletman, he would in a New York minute. Why? Because it would be a huge feather in his cap. There is no other person in the hills who is watched more closely than mulletman, if he is doing illegal things like folks claim, don't you think some small town Barney Fife would haul his butt in? 

By the way, lizzeeB, I don't wear orange, EVER! But, thanks for the assumption. 8) 

PRO


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

you should try it pro. make that the first pic that you post on line brother. orange would look good on ya!!!!!!!!! *()* *()* *()*


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Really?? I don't know man..... Everyone knows the power of money.... thats no secret. However, you work for the guy and I don't think you're one to be in on shady dealings so if you say it isn't happening or at least that you haven't been involved, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. I do know that everyone I've run into in the field has been really nice and helpful...but then again, I don't and may not ever have a LE tag. I would guess I'm safe as long as I chase the critters in out of the way places that stay under the radar of most folks.... by the way, how do I get ahold of you to set up some "Staker" flags for me if I do get a good tag? :wink: :lol:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

riverrat wrote:


> by the way, how do I get ahold of you to set up some "Staker" flags for me if I do get a good tag


My picture is posted at the Post Office. 

Think about it, while money may/may not get a "rich" outfitter off, do you think it keeps charges from even being filed? With all the mullet haters out there, one would think there would be some concrete *proof* of atleast a few of the alledged transactions, wouldn't you?

PRO


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## LizzeeB (Sep 24, 2007)

blah,blah,blah.....is all i am hearing. Proof man, proof! Oh hey, and for the record....i saw Elvis leaving the building, and my friends too! Sorry, no pics though, nobody had a camera! Darn, that's a bummer!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> riverrat wrote:
> 
> 
> > by the way, how do I get ahold of you to set up some "Staker" flags for me if I do get a good tag
> ...


Hmmm good point. Oh well... I'm pretty sure I won't ever have to worry about it where I hunt....you're right in that I would call the authorities and get plenty of pictures to share with my fellow hunters here if it happened to me. I wouldn't take very kindly to that sort of stuff, I wouldn't imagine. Has anyone ever even asked your boss or any of the other actual outfitters about this stuff or is it all just "urban legend" type stuff among hunters?


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## GSLHonker (Sep 8, 2007)

Are citations issued by the DWR public record, or does there have to be a court case ? If not it would be nice if they were, ecspecially if you made a living from a public resource. Just a question.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

SO the question I have about it is this. Por how did you hunt go? Did you get what you where after? Can you tell or do we have to buy the video?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

How do you get picture proof of somebody telling you you can't chase a bull or hunt an area? Especially if that somebody turns out to be sombodies...? Also, is it illegal to tell somebody they cannot hunt an area? IF so, I should have taken multiple snapshots of people telling me I couldn't hunt waterholes on my antelope hunt...


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> SO the question I have about it is this. Por how did you hunt go? Did you get what you where after? Can you tell or do we have to buy the video?


We didn't kill the 'biggest' bulls, but we killed some awesome bulls none-the-less. I don't post pictures, this topic is all the reason I need not to, too many that can't get it done making up stories and running down the hunters and the animals.

As for wyo2ut, I can PROMISE you if there where people telling you to stay out of areas for your pronghorn, it was *NOT* mulletman nor his 'possee'. What some 'average joe' hunter says is out of mulletmans control. I say deal with it and go hunting, stop all the whining and crying. Good hell, I could type a 15 page post on the examples of 'average joes' trying to mess up my clients hunts, yet we STILL got awesome animals on the ground, w/o telling a single soul to stay out of an area, and w/o using a single orange cone! If one gets off the road and HUNTS he/she will do just fine. I saw a camp with atleast five horsetrailers and 30+ people in camp for a single hunter. How is this "DYI" hunter doing it the right way as opposed to my clients who had me and a 'spotter' and nobody else along? Instead of crying and throwing a tantrum like a 4 year old, we simply went to another part of the mountain, problem SOLVED!

PRO


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## huntinco (Sep 23, 2007)

Now that is a super bull! congrats to the hunter. Good to see this site up and running


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> We didn't kill the 'biggest' bulls, but we killed some awesome bulls none-the-less. I don't post pictures, this topic is all the reason I need not to, too many that can't get it done making up stories and running down the hunters and the animals.


Fair enough.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> As for wyo2ut, I can PROMISE you if there where people telling you to stay out of areas for your pronghorn, it was *NOT* mulletman nor his 'possee'. What some 'average joe' hunter says is out of mulletmans control. I say deal with it and go hunting, stop all the whining and crying.


I can PROMISE you that I never claimed it was Mossdink or his posse that chased me off waterholes. What I can PROMISE, though, is that Mossdink's posse DOES chase people off specific animals...as was the case with the 443 bull. I think this is totally unethical. The problem is that posses like these are very intimidating...for me, a 443 bull or an antelope just ain't worth the trouble of fighting these kinds of idiots.

It is sad that these "outfitters" claim fair chase...


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

How does one chase any one off of a bull? I have been confronted by people saying I need to leave that the area It was being used. I laughed and walked by. If they use force they are breaking lots of laws. If they where doing that I think people would have all sorts of proof. Just because people yell and scream and say they a filming a hunt in that area to me is not chasing any one away. IMO


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyo2ut wrote:


> What I can PROMISE, though, is that Mossdink's posse DOES chase people off specific animals...as was the case with the 443 bull


.

I call *BS*, hersay at best, flat out lies at worst. If the 'posse' did such, it is YOUR DUTY to turn them in, to do NOTHING makes you as guilty as the offenders, IMHO.

B&C and P&Y investigate animals of this size very closely, if what you alledge took place, they will not allow the animal harvested to be entered. If they find the stories to be just 'stories', they do the right thing and dismiss them as rumors and remarks from jealous hunters who couldn't get er done!

PRO


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> wyo2ut wrote:
> 
> 
> > What I can PROMISE, though, is that Mossdink's posse DOES chase people off specific animals...as was the case with the 443 bull
> ...


Is it against the law to tell people they can't hunt an area or a certain bull? Is this sort of intimidation illegal? What should I turn them in for? Telling others that they found the bull first and have "rights" to it?


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > wyo2ut wrote:
> ...


public land= may the best man win. sure they put in the time and effort to track a specific animal throughout the summer. but on public land you have as much right to it as the next guy no matter how full and lush the mullet is. IMHO :wink:


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

callofthewild said:


> public land= may the best man win. sure they put in the time and effort to track a specific animal throughout the summer. but on public land you have as much right to it as the next guy no matter how full and lush the mullet is. IMHO :wink:


Agreed, but is a trophy bull worth fighting others over? I don't think so...it just bugs me that people think they have a "claim" on these animals.

Read this thread from a different site...
http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gf ... t=36367128

Pro, you better sign up and start defending your blood brother...


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> callofthewild said:
> 
> 
> > public land= may the best man win. sure they put in the time and effort to track a specific animal throughout the summer. but on public land you have as much right to it as the next guy no matter how full and lush the mullet is. IMHO :wink:


Agreed, but is a trophy bull worth fighting others over? I don't think so...it just bugs me that people think they have a "claim" on these animals.

i am not condoning fighting with people for a trophy bull. there are many ways into a canyon if you want to get in there, or if you accidentaly stumble across one and "shoot him out from under someone else". my point is yes it is unethical for someone to try and make a claim on an animal who resides on public ground. and if there are people doing or practicing this behavior then yes they do need to be turned in to the authorities. i was not pointing a finger at anyone per say the mullet comment was to make the post a little bit humorous. i may not see eye to eye with doyle moss on many things but until i have visual evidence of the situation being discussed, i just have to hope that he is paying attention to all the laws and regulations out there. and tip my hat to him and those who hunt with him how ever much it pains me for personal reasons.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> Pro, you better sign up and start defending your blood brother...


What is the point? The haters will still hater, the crybabies will still cry, the gossipers will still gossip. If one chooses to beleive this silliness, so be it. I *KNOW *what goes on, so those of you who choose to repeat/relate/makeup rumors and nonsense can continue being little magpies, if it makes your shortcomings easier to deal with.

PRO


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I can PROMISE you that I never claimed it was Mossdink or his posse that chased me off waterholes


Wyo2ut, there you go again with your childlish behavior. I wonder if you are ever going to learn :roll: :roll:


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## archery (Sep 7, 2007)

Gotta get my 2 cents in here. first off , if all the little cry babies that get all in a knot everytime someone else kills a big bull/buck. would work half as hard to get one they likely would. Team mullet, is probly the hardest working group out there. if they were doing something diffeerent they would be heros, but because there hunting/guiding they are hated. I have shared the mountain with them several times and have never seen anything to whine about. they work there butts off, and they get results. it really is that simple. I suppose a guy could get all bent backwords if someone parked there truck so it is a little on the trail. I have parked in spots where there is little room, and it wasn't done to block any one. and i strongly suspect this is the case in some of these happenings. bottom line is this, if you want a big one, get your fat butt off the couch and go out and find it, and hunt it, on its terms. just like the mullet crew. And quit hating somebody because they are willing to work harder and smarter, and get the desirable results.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

archery said:


> Gotta get my 2 cents in here. first off , if all the little cry babies that get all in a knot everytime someone else kills a big bull/buck. would work half as hard to get one they likely would. Team mullet, is probly the hardest working group out there. if they were doing something diffeerent they would be heros, but because there hunting/guiding they are hated. I have shared the mountain with them several times and have never seen anything to whine about. they work there butts off, and they get results. it really is that simple. I suppose a guy could get all bent backwords if someone parked there truck so it is a little on the trail. I have parked in spots where there is little room, and it wasn't done to block any one. and i strongly suspect this is the case in some of these happenings. bottom line is this, if you want a big one, get your fat butt off the couch and go out and find it, and hunt it, on its terms. just like the mullet crew. *And quit hating somebody because they are willing to work harder and smarter, and get the desirable results*.


Well put, and well said!

PRO


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## GRIFF (Sep 22, 2007)

When it comes to drugs, sex, and money I wouldn't put anything past anyone. I have never been lucky enough to draw a LE tag so I have never run into them, but there are way too many stories floating around for all of them to be false. 
Look at what happened with the Heatons several years back and that high fence issue. When it comes to some guy throwing thousands of dollars (possibly tens of thousands or more) at you to shoot a record book animal, some lines are going to be crossed.
Later,
Griff


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## Cold Track (Sep 11, 2007)

Good to see not much has changed, don't get to visit as much as some of you (got better things to do and plenty of HUNTING going on) but I'd like to chime in with my two cents. First off that bull is awesome, he's dead, picking the hunt apart isn't going to change anything, you didn't kill it, so just enjoy seeing the animal and possibly some video. There you go wantabe, jealous, gunsel "hunters". Secondly I've guided some of the same big money hunters that Mossback has and believe me money to get a big animal is not an object. So if D.M. is getting (example) $100,000 dollars for a monster elk, paying a herd of (and this makes me laugh when Pro says this because a guide is the full package anywhere else) scouts, spotters, guides, $20,000 to find and follow a monster elk's every move then that is well worth it for the price of the the hunt, and all the money the videos will generate. Do I think it is cool, not really. I think D.M. is a dink! Maybe the few times I met him that was the impression I got. I think a lot of the complaints are probably B.S., but also that some are true. There are too many complaints to not think otherwise, but until someone catches them in the act, proves it, and does something about it oh well! Not my concern or my business, if your so damned obsessed with making hunting a competition do something about it and beat them but that is not what hunting is supposed to be about. But hey we're men(I think) that's what we do compete, and whine about who's kicking our ass. I don't agree with some of Mossback's methods and their so called methods, but somebody's got to get payed to take the big money auction tag dudes out for their bought and payed for monsters, If I had the balls to take the leap to turn governors tags and videos into a healthy living I would. I guarantee if that is what I did all year I 'd be killing world class animals with dude hunters too.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Coldtrack, I agree with parts of your post, and disagree with other parts. Calling them "dude hunters" is just as childish as whining about "blocking roads". I dare say 99% of the stories about mulletman are pure BS. No one in the 'biz' works harder at doing it the right way. IMHO, most complain because they can't do it themselves, whether because of a lack of abilitity, or a lack of time to locate/pattern/judge the animals 'worthy' of being killed by the "dude hunters". Get over it or go do it yourself! But first, GROW UP!

PRO


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Elkhuntingfool said:


> Wyo2Utah - you have got to be kidding about the story of being told to leave an area - no less on public hunting ground. I would laugh at anyone who believes that story. In fact, I'd do it infront of their face so I can see them lying out their eyes to me.
> 
> There is no way that this happens. It's funny how it never happens to anyone, but it's always heard second, third or twentieth hand.


Call me what you want...but it is true. More than once this year I was told that I couldn't hunt a waterhole because someone else had their blind there first (even though they weren't there when I began hunting). It does happen...and often. I can't even count the number of times people have pulled this crap while fishing...

Perhaps my favorite example of this happened on the Uinta Mountains during a general season elk hunt...my best friend was hiking through a meadow when he heard someone yelling at him from a distance. Several guys were sitting in the beds of their trucks yelling for him to leave "their" clearing...not long after he was yelled at, I was yelled at by the same guys. I have never returned to the Uintas for a general season hunt...

Bottom line is this: I don't give a rat's ass whether you believe me or not...it happened and it happens every year. I don't need proof of it happening to know that it did...I was there. I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else. And, personally, hunting one particular area or one particular animal isn't important to me...but, to guides and many other hunters, these "trophy" animals are important...important enough to claim as theirs!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyo2ut, your example of the Uintas sounds like 'average joe' hunters, NOT guides. Yet, you earlier made it seem as all this stuff was done by a specific outfitter that killed the 443 bull that is the TOPIC of this thread! Don't make it sound like this is a guide problem, when from your last post it is a 'slob hunter' problem. I have experienced the same thing many times, that I don't disagree with you on. What I DO take issue with is the insinuating of this being a 'guide problem', when it is NOT!

PRO


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I believe this is a problem in general and is NOT just a guide problem or regular hunter problem. I do believe that outfitters and their posses do the same thing...I was told by some close friends about the 443 bull and Moss's posse and how they reacted towards them chasing the same bull. I believe the problems associated with guides/outfitters could be alleviated if the state of Utah had stricter laws associated with guiding licenses like other states...that was what I was insinuating.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

So, we take care of the guide/outfitter 'problems' with tighter regulations of them(which I support 100%), but what do you do with the 'slob hunter' 'problems'? Just 'cleaning up' one *SMALL* segment of the hunting population is a start, but it hardly takes care of the 'problem' in general. I guess because the guides/outfitters are successful at putting monster animals on the ground they are an easy target to focus on, but I see little benefit to focusing on them and ignoring the bigger problem, which is slob hunters in general.

PRO


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I hear of these stories every year...I call BS every time I hear them. I don't think we need more rules and regulations, just respect and common sense. Are there a few guides that probably don't act the way they should? Probably. Are there many many average hunters that behave like idiots? Yes.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

+1, I like to follow the guides around, after all they know where the big ones are. Then I'll scout there routine and just leave 1 hour earlier then them. I will kindly inform them that its public land and I got there first. :mrgreen:


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks I know. Some call it brilliant some lazy. They're basically the same thing. :roll:


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

Work smarter not harder.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> Work smarter not harder.


I say do both.

PRO


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

I can agree to that. Good hard but smart work is what pays off.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Elkhuntingfool said:


> Wyo2Ut - someone told you to leave and you did? I'd tell them they can cram it and if they need help - I'll find them a log to get them started.
> 
> You make it sound like a *GUIDE *told you to take a hike, yet it was the average hunter that made you scamper to the camper and break out a deck of cards.
> 
> Sounds like a flip flop to me.


1) Of course I left, it is definitely not worth it to me to fight over one area...instead of getting in a fight, I just go somewhere else.

2) I never said a guide told me to leave...I said hunters. I did say, though, that Moss's posse asked my friends to leave the area where they were chasing the 443 bull.

3) Same story I have been telling from the beginning. You must have read more into it.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> 2) I never said a guide told me to leave...I said hunters. I did say, though, that Moss's posse asked my friends to leave the area where they were chasing the 443 bull.


I bet you friends just said that because they were jealous and they really wish they would have killed that bull. When someone kills a trophy bull then people whine over it. Remember last year when Mossback killed that bull in the Bookcliffs. Everyone accused him of pimping the bull and some Redman said he even chased it with a helocopter. People hate the guy because hes successful so they make up stories.

Guides and hunters should be on the same team. Guides arent the enemy. The Anti-hunters just love to hear that hunters are divided because it makes us weaker when hunters hate other hunters and guides.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Poor wyo2ut, he is mis-understood more than any other forum member. :roll: 

PRO


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Kicked off public land*

To say that no one ever gets kicked off of public land is funny (not a guide in this instance); here is one very funny example from the old forum:
http://utahwildlife.net/dwr_forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25286&hilit=+save+stand


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Kicked off public land*



Huge29 said:


> To say that no one ever gets kicked off of public land is funny (not a guide in this instance); here is one very funny example from the old forum:
> http://utahwildlife.net/dwr_forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25286&hilit=+save+stand


Apples and oranges with your example. Besides that, who has denied people don't try and block off areas? My whole point here is when people say a certain outfitter does this all the time w/o an ounce of proof. I try an treat hunters I come across in the hills as I like to be treated, we all should. Like I have said numerous times, slob hunters are slob hunters, regardless of their wealth and whether they are guides or 'average joes'. To make it appear as one specific *REAL* person is guilty of this stuff w/o PROOF is where I take issue. There is no call for such actions by so-called sportsmen, NONE!

PRO


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Kicked off public land*



proutdoors said:


> Like I have said numerous times, slob hunters are slob hunters, regardless of their wealth and whether they are guides or 'average joes'. To make it appear as one specific *REAL* person is guilty of this stuff w/o PROOF is where I take issue. There is no call for such actions by so-called sportsmen, NONE!


Exactly...that's why even mossback's crew are not "sportsmen" and are "slob" hunters!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Elkhuntingfool said:


> If you're getting kicked off public land, then you didn't hike in far enough off the road to get away from 99.8% of all hunters. Your fault there.


You haven't hunted the Parker very much have you?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

If your antelope tag was on the Parker, there are tons of lopes there with lots of ground to find a 'free spot'. They are like jackrabbits down there, so I see why you wouldn't want to argue/fight over a certain spot. I always try an avoid conflicts with other hunters and go out of my way to accomadate others on the mountain. I do not doubt renobs feel like they 'own' certain areas. I experience it every year, but have yet to have a guide/outfitter try and 'run' my off.

That is completely off topic of this thread however. This started out as a post about the biggest elk ever killed in Utah under FAIR CHASE conditions. Congrats to all involved in getting this bull on the ground. To take a bull of this caliber with archery gear out of a treestand is amazing. This hunter has more than proved his salt as a hunter, and he deserves accolades, not jeers and jealosy driven fairytales. 

PRO


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Wyo2ut, the parker mtn unit is one of the best units and it has the most antelope. There are plenty of places you could have found antelope. Im sorry you had a rough time with hunters (NOT GUIDES) down there. Maybe you were sitting at the waterhole in your blind but you were just so **** loud eating your bag of potato chips and every antelope within a hundred miles could hear you. I doubt that when you drove up they told you to get lost because this was there watering hole.

I have ran into jerks before too, but they didnt chase me away from their hunting spot.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Elkhuntingfool said:


> No


That's what I thought...the Parker is mostly wide-open country with lots and lots of roads...there isn't really any area where you can hike to get back into. No, it isn't all the same...

The most irritating thing about the Parker antelope hunt wasn't the number of hunters, it was the idea that hunters could "reserve" their hunting spot by building a blind on a waterhole months in advance of the hunt.

I am just glad that my hunt was a good one and that I was able to shoot a goat.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

:shock:


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## TRDHUNTER (Sep 11, 2007)

What ever happened to talking about the huge bull. To hell with who shot it, who guided it, and everything else. All this is about how trully remarkable an animal is in order to grow such massive headgear.  I am amazed by this animal. 

Congrats to the hunter and my response to all these stories is that if these guides are doing these things it will catch up with them, but there is no sense in spreading lies or rumors that nobody is sure or has proof. If you catch someone doing these things whether they are a guide or just an average joe, you need to contact dwr or authorities in order to stop the problem and not just complain about it. 

But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Elkhuntingfool said:


> why don't you post the rest of my statement? You hunt on public land and whine about it and when someone calls you on it - you chop up their statements to fit what you want it to sound like.
> 
> You need to quit the whining and start hunting.


is that better?

You are right...I hunt on PUBLIC land; where anyone in the PUBLIC has the RIGHT to hunt...not just some jerk who puts up a blind.

You tell me to hike off the trail to get away from people, yet you have no clue what the Parker Mountain is even like because you probably have never even been there let alone hunted it. You are giving advice when speaking from ignorance...then, you tell me to "quit whining and start hunting". Brilliant thinking. Had I spent my hunt "whining" and not hunting, I wouldn't have shot an antelope on opening day. Regardless, it is still 100% unethical for hunters to think they can reserve hunting areas and then tell other hunters they don't have the right to hunt them when they are public land.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

How about you both get over it? :?:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

TRDHUNTER said:


> What ever happened to talking about the huge bull. To hell with who shot it, who guided it, and everything else. All this is about how trully remarkable an animal is in order to grow such massive headgear.  I am amazed by this animal.
> 
> Congrats to the hunter and my response to all these stories is that if these guides are doing these things it will catch up with them, but there is no sense in spreading lies or rumors that nobody is sure or has proof. If you catch someone doing these things whether they are a guide or just an average joe, you need to contact dwr or authorities in order to stop the problem and not just complain about it.
> 
> But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong!


+1,000,000!

PRO


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> TRDHUNTER said:
> 
> 
> > What ever happened to talking about the huge bull. To hell with who shot it, who guided it, and everything else. All this is about how trully remarkable an animal is in order to grow such massive headgear.  I am amazed by this animal.
> ...


+1


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, this thread isnt about Wyo2ut and his antelope hunt. Its about a HUGE bull elk that was killed.


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## bossloader (Sep 11, 2007)

here he is NICE!!!!!!


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