# Book Cliff's Bison hunt?



## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

Hey fellas! I haven't posted anything on here for many moons, sorry, life has gotten busy! I was just curious if anyone has talked with one of the 4 lucky people that drew out on the Book Cliff's for Bison last year. I am trying to decide if I want to continue to put in for the Henry's or try for one of the Book Cliff's bulls. I'm trying to find out if it's a difficult hunt like the Henrys, or is it easier to find and get to them on the Book Cliffs. Even if you don't know of one of the lucky hunters, but do know if it's easy to find the herds. Any info would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Glad you're still around..sorry, no info.


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## treedagain (Nov 21, 2009)

5 for 5 with a 3 1/2 day to tag out...


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## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

treedagain.....are you talking about deer? Because they only gave out 4 total Bison tags last year.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

There were 5 bison, 4 draw , 1 concervation tag..


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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

Probably get slammed for saying this but.....Hmmm 20% of an OIL hunt getting auctioned off?


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Don't know anything about the hunt, but good to see you are alive and well. The statistics would lead one to believe it might be a worthwhile adventure.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Nope I recommend that everybody put in elsewhere.......maybe someday I'll draw.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

300 Wby said:


> Probably get slammed for saying this but.....Hmmm 20% of an OIL hunt getting auctioned off?


Yep and last I counted the SFW gets 17 premium elk tags to auction off in Utah versus the 88 that are available in the draw which includes those that are going to non-residents.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

300 Wby said:


> Probably get slammed for saying this but.....Hmmm 20% of an OIL hunt getting auctioned off?


Here's what 'some' of you don't get.

Without conservation permits, The Book cliff bison hunt WOULD NOT exist!

Conservation permits is what funded the Buffalo transplant to the Book-cliffs.

Here's the DWR news release:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/?option=co ... ame&id=839

From the New release:
Program benefits
Because of the funding it generates, the Conservation Permit Program benefits all Utah hunters:

The program's revenue has been critical in keeping permit fees low and ensuring that most permits go to Utah residents. The percentage of Utah permits available to nonresidents is among the lowest in the western states. 
You'll find diverse hunting opportunities in Utah, including bear, bighorn sheep, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, Rocky Mountain goats and turkeys. The Conservation Permit Program has funded transplants of 561 bighorn sheep, 350 pronghorn and 80 bison to provide some of these additional opportunities. 
Utah leads the West in habitat work, restoring more than 778,000 acres of wildlife habitat since 2005. The Conservation Permit Program contributed to 309 different habitat projects from 2006-2011. Learn more about habitat-restoration efforts.

If all the OPPERTUNITY these cocervation permits would suddenly disappear,
Hunters in Utah would be in shock :shock:


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

^^^^^^ Or get funded elsewhere.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I think most people DO get the value of conservation permits to the state, it's sportsmen, the general public and the wildlife.

The thing that most people DO NOT get is why they are distributed and managed the way that they are.

Another part of the article:
_Revenue from the Conservation Permit Program provides funding for projects that could not otherwise be funded under the DWR's normal operating budget. Without the program, Utah's general deer and elk permit fees would likely increase by an additional $15 to $20, or a larger percentage of those permits would have to go to nonresidents, who pay higher permit fees._

I for one would be willing to pay more to keep the permits in the draw and I am in the position that I could purchase one every year at an auction should I choose to do so. Another thing that is not mentioned in the article is the fact that the conservation tags are the crème de la crème of all of the tags.

[*]There are two San Juan premium elk tags available in the draw to the general public. The SFW has one available at their auctions.

[*]There are two Fillmore/Pahvant premium elk tags available in the draw. One resident, One non-resident. The SFW has one available at their auctions.

Those are just two examples. There are many more. Including the statewide premium tag.

http://www.sfw.net/permits.asp

http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggam ... ermits.pdf

I am not going to profess that I have all of the answers but I know that the more I learn about the system the less I am impressed.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The Agency Draw, Book Cliffs hunt are escapees off the Tribal Lands. They are not the transplanted buffalo, which are not able to support a hunt-- yet. I have no idea how the BC hunt is though..... 

Oh, and the Conservation Tags do some really good things in Utah. Just limiting their lobbying impact on the management of the bucks/bulls is the tough one for many.


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## treedagain (Nov 21, 2009)

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-ut ... -home.html


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

Packout is correct. The original herd escaped or migrated from the reservation years ago. They were slowly getting more and more and that is when the Division decided to do a transplant. The Bison showed they could survive and the transplant just added to the herd faster. Now we have a hunt. I like the idea. I just hope it doesn't affect the deer numbers in the long run


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Given the deer situation on the Henry's, I don't that will be an issue....


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> ^^^^^^ Or get funded elsewhere.


B-I-N-G-O!
Claiming that if it weren't for conservation permits there wouldn't be any funding, is like saying with government intervention we wouldn't ever see a decrease in unemployment rates! When we are given one choice on how to raise funds for such projects, is there really a choice? Such 'logic' would suggest that other states are not able to do transplants/relocation's.....which is NOT the case!


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Fine, take the concervation permits back into the draw...

Increase general deer to $65, and general spike/anybull permits to $80...

Then increase non-res quatas to 20%...

See how that works out for ya.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Cant sleep either eh Goofy...


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Cant sleep either eh Goofy...


Caught a couple hours, Good to go now, headed out looking around 
again today....Looked at the West side of the Nebo unit yesterday..

Extremely poor wintering game numbers..


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Packout said:


> The Agency Draw, Book Cliffs hunt are escapees off the Tribal Lands. They are not the transplanted buffalo, which are not able to support a hunt-- yet. .


http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-ut ... -home.html


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Yep, that is the press release of the transplant, which was a great accomplishment for sportsmen. But you still don't understand that the Agency Draw/Wildhorse Bench hunt targets the bison which have come off the reservation. You do notice that the entire Book Cliffs unit is not included in the hunt boundary? The buffalo have been coming off the reservation for years and the hunt targets those bison-- not the transplanted bison (of course some of those transplants may have gone down into the area where this hunt occurs). I saw the first bison in 2004, feeding with the cows in Willow Cr. 

From the Bison Mgt Plan-- Supplement the current bison expansion by releasing a total of 45 new animals beginning in 2008. -- That means they would supplement the escaped tribe bison with transplants.

I think we will see the first hunt targeting the transplanted bison within the next 2 years. Great success story so far.


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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> [quote="300 Wby":2k80759e]Probably get slammed for saying this but.....Hmmm 20% of an OIL hunt getting auctioned off?


Here's what 'some' of you don't get. :shock:[/quote:2k80759e]

It is not that I don't agree with the goal of conservation permits they are needed and are useful and benefits both game and non-game species alike.

You are correct that there are some things that I jsut don't get; one of them is why are 13% of of our Desert Bighorn and 13% of our Rocky Mountain Bighorn permits conservation permits? (I have not done the math on the remaining OIL species so I will not bring them into this discussion). Do we really need that many, or can they be limited to 10% or less for each specieand raise the missing revenue by Increasing the cost of application for non-residents from $10 to $30? After all non-residents can buy points for all species and perhaps we should look into raising the non-resident hunting license to $150, commensurate with our Nevada and Idaho neighbors (non-resident points and fee is another burr under my saddle but I'll save that for later).

Bottom line for me is that these are rare public resources so the permits that are not provided to the public should be rare as well. Are these types of permits needed yes; should we the people of utah be so generous with our tags? I would say not.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Well, first off, application cost go to the company in Nevada to operate the draw.
None of that money gos to the DWR or Concervation as I understand it, so raising 
cost there would do nothing.

And the change just a couple years ago, madating a hunting permit to apply
for LE and OIAL tags did raise cost to Non-res'ys...........

To push another law through so soon, and change it again, would not look good..
( Just look at Wyoming is going through right now :shock: )

IMHO, 13% on those big horn tags going to conceravtion is perfectly fine...
After all, those hunte WOULD not even exsist without them, and will not
grow if the concerv tags were to disapear.......Personaly, I'm OK with how it is.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Well, actually..... The UDWR has a contract with the Nevada application service company which pays the company much less than the $10 app fee. I think the fee the NV Co gets around $3-5 per app ( can't remember the exact number). The rest of the app money is used to do mailings, print booklets, administrative costs, support the computer system, etc.... So they could make us pay more per app and have that increase be earmarked for conservation projects. Not that I'd want to do that and not that it would pass the Legislature, but it is an option. With 150,000+ apps, if they had a $1 conservation fee on apps, they could generate $150,000 which equates to about 3-4 auctioned sheep permits. We do need to maintain a strong program to fund conservation efforts-- be it transplanting sheep, studying moose, or thinning the PJ jungles.

Still, not sure about how the BC bison hunt is, but sounds like fun.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Packout, I drew a BC elk tag in 1992,,,,Was there on Seep ridge and ran into
5 Buffalo , 4 cows and a HUGE bull......I bout died! had no clue back then the
Ute tribe had buff! Or they were wondering onto the public ground on the cliffs..

Funny thing too, I'd been seeing buff on the Henrys quite regular before that...
COULDN'T believe my eyes when I saw them in the Book Cliffs 20 years ago.


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