# 5-day deer hunt



## utahtu (Apr 2, 2008)

What - no one has commented on the wildlife boards decision to reduce the deer hunt to 5-days statewide!!!

Even though DWR recommended no change to the length of the hunts, except to extend the southern region back to a normal 10-day hunt, the wildlife board voted on the recommendations by SFW to make the hunt 5-days statewide.

Who controls the wildlife board, to me it sounds like Don P is going to get his wish. Remember years ago when he noted that he would control Utah's DWR one way or another.

How much money was passed under the table to influence the board members?


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## ruddy (Nov 10, 2009)

Well thats it for me, hunted in Utah my whole life, never been a horn hunter always hunted for meat and for the family expierence. I grew up hunting with my dad, grandpa, and uncle. As soon as they switched it to a draw system my grandpa immediatley quit hunting, as we were hunting this year my dad said if they switch the hunt to a five day hunt he is done to and if he quits my sister and I will quit as well. Its sad that my kids will miss out on the expierinces that I had growing up, being in the woods with three generations of family. It was never about killing a deer, it was about the time spent together, doing something we loved. We run a family buisness and the ony time we could hunt was the weekends, and a few places close to home during the week. Thanks to the SFW for taking the family expierience out of hunting. You can go to Rac meetings and try to fight what they introduce to the board but they are a powerful group with alot of pull, what they say goes. Its to bad they won a fight against tradition. I am just glad they have no intrest in waterfowl right now, or they would find a way to screw it up to.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

i ll admit i was blindsided by this one as well the last i had heard was that about the only thing being done with the 5 day hunt was to move it back 
on the weekends guess i was as wrong as a rat kissen a cat on that one
rude there is a way if you dont mind going out of state for your whole family 
to hunt together region d in wyoming as a rule has left over tags for deer and 
by using bonus points of antelope you can get a pretty nice combo hunt for your family we have gone that way for our group the last couple of years and while its more expensive the intertainment and success of the hunts more than 
make up for the money aspect. if you want pm me and i ll give you some more details on what units for goats to put in for.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Now I have a real good reason to go back home to Mississippi to hunt every year. The bow season starts 1st Oct and runs until end of January. Gun starts weekend before Thanksgiving and runs until end of January. Have first two weeks of Dec. Primitive weapon.(Black powder and any single shot cartridge before 1900. (45-70) etc...
and the last two weeks of January too. Limit 3 legal bucks and you can take does too if you like.


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

I guess taking a week off work as a vacation to go deer hunting and camping is going going gone for rifle hunters in Utah. The area I hunt has seen a steady improvement in deer numbers and buck quality since it burned 8 years ago. Why are they manageing the whole state like it needs more trophy deer? These are general units to be hunted by the masses not trophy areas. 
If you want to hunt big deer from the road apply for the LE units.
If a unit is in trouble I understand 5 days somehow I don't think the whole state is in trouble. 
How did the trophy hunters get so much power in Utah? Are they the squeeky wheel? Or is it :mrgreen: $$$$$$$$
Geeze


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

ruddy said:



> Well thats it for me, hunted in Utah my whole life, never been a horn hunter always hunted for meat and for the family expierence. I grew up hunting with my dad, grandpa, and uncle. As soon as they switched it to a draw system my grandpa immediatley quit hunting, as we were hunting this year my dad said if they switch the hunt to a five day hunt he is done to and if he quits my sister and I will quit as well. Its sad that my kids will miss out on the expierinces that I had growing up, being in the woods with three generations of family. It was never about killing a deer, it was about the time spent together, doing something we loved. We run a family buisness and the ony time we could hunt was the weekends, and a few places close to home during the week. Thanks to the SFW for taking the family expierience out of hunting. You can go to Rac meetings and try to fight what they introduce to the board but they are a powerful group with alot of pull, what they say goes. Its to bad they won a fight against tradition. I am just glad they have no intrest in waterfowl right now, or they would find a way to screw it up to.


Now if we only could get most of the residents in this state to agree to do the same. I understand its tough to buy a tag and only get to hunt 5 days, but this is supposed to help the herds. How many people in the past have complained about deer numbers? or quality of hunting? I will continue to hunt here and hopefully a lot of other people will give it up as well.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I saw this 5 day general rifle deer hunt coming like a wild heard of elephants!!

I just wish antler restrictions were not so looked down to the point we won't even 
give them a try!! just one year with a longer season for more time and opportunity.
I KNOW,,I KNOW, Every study ever done says they don't work...

But dose any one out there have a clue how much better hunters and deer would
both be off? if just for one year "2010" we had a 3 point or better, 9 day rifle hunt?

I have argued this point for months with everybody and there dog,,,,,
Antler restricts are BETTER than shortened seasons! Go back and read how many times I've said that on this forum alone ,,.
Let alone every where else Ive been.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I saw this 5 day general rifle deer hunt coming like a wild heard of elephants!!
> 
> I just wish antler restrictions were not so looked down to the point we won't even
> give them a try!! just one year with a longer season for more time and opportunity.
> ...


Why argue which bad policy is 'better'? :? Repeating an opinion many times does NOT make it suddenly a sound plan. Insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results. I appreciate your conviction on the antler restrictions, but there is NO data/facts to support it. Of course, there is NO data/facts to support reducing the season to five days either. Choosing the lesser of two flawed proposals is not what I want to be forced to do.

My heartburn over the five day hunt is eased a bit by the exemption of the youth getting 9 day hunts. But, my biggest complaint, if what the reports say is true, that SFW proposed the 5 day hunt at the Wildlife Board meeting and NOT at any of the RAC's. I like 90% of what SFW does for wildlife, but I do NOT like special treatment for one group over others by the WB. Every change I have helped get through, tried to get through, get stopped/altered, I was told we HAD to go through the 'process', which meant submitting the proposal/objection to the RAC chairs, and to the the Wildlife Board members, and to the DWR Gig Game Coordinator. Then, I have been told, REPEATEDLY, that the proposal MUST pass at LEAST 3 of the 5 RAC's in order for the WB to consider the proposal. In fact, I tried to change the weapons allowed by disabled hunters during archery season a few years ago, it was delayed a year on the SOLE 'reason' of 2 of the RAC's not having it proposed at their RAC's meetings. yet, here is a BIGGER change affecting MORE hunters, and no such enforcement of this 'rule'. Either guidelines are to be followed by all, or get rid of the guidelines and stop the farce of there being legitimate public input.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

here's the thing that gets me. How many divorced dads like me just got screwed out of the general season? I take my kids hunting all the time, you guys have all seen my posts, and more often than not, when there's a photo of what we harvested on a hunt, my kids are alwayss right there. But deer and elk hunting in earnest are too hard for a 6 year old to go chase dad up and down steep mountains all day. The opening weekend has been on my time with my kids 4 out of the last 5 years. I've generally either gone archery, or gone the second weekend. 

Now this year it gets more complicated. My oldest, Katie (12) just passed hunters safety this year. There's a big long box with a shiny bow that'll be waiting for her under the tree this christmas. It's a beautiful savage .243. One of the conditions my ex made in order for me to get her through hunters safety was that if she's hunting with me, and actually shooting, it's to be on weekends I don't have the other kids because she feels it's "too distracting". I was overjoyed to hear that because it meant I got to have Katie additional time this upcoming year. Now I'm stuck where no matter which weekend the hunt falls on, I lose. Either Katie can't hunt this year, or I can't. Thanks Don Peay.


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## Yonni (Sep 7, 2007)

WasatchOutdoors said:


> here's the thing that gets me. How many divorced dads like me just got screwed out of the general season? I take my kids hunting all the time, you guys have all seen my posts, and more often than not, when there's a photo of what we harvested on a hunt, my kids are alwayss right there. But deer and elk hunting in earnest are too hard for a 6 year old to go chase dad up and down steep mountains all day. The opening weekend has been on my time with my kids 4 out of the last 5 years. I've generally either gone archery, or gone the second weekend.
> 
> Now this year it gets more complicated. My oldest, Katie (12) just passed hunters safety this year. There's a big long box with a shiny bow that'll be waiting for her under the tree this christmas. It's a beautiful savage .243. One of the conditions my ex made in order for me to get her through hunters safety was that if she's hunting with me, and actually shooting, it's to be on weekends I don't have the other kids because she feels it's "too distracting". I was overjoyed to hear that because it meant I got to have Katie additional time this upcoming year. Now I'm stuck where no matter which weekend the hunt falls on, I lose. Either Katie can't hunt this year, or I can't. Thanks Don Peay.


what a great way to promote being a family friendly state, yes this is heavy with sarcasm.


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## inbowrange (Sep 11, 2007)

I think if they wanted less deer killed, they should take about 10-15 thousand rifle tags away and put them in the archery and muzzleloader quota. You still get the same money but less deer are killed.

Just to let you know i'm against the 5 day hunt!


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## 4x4 Bronco (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't see how this could possibly help deer herds. I think we need more spread out hunting dates to have less rifles in the hills at the same time. maybe three different times people can hunt. There are already too many hunters afield making it hard for the deer to have a chance to escape. They get spooked by one hunter only to be shot at by fifteen more. My dad and I had planned on not going opening weekend and heading up Monday or tuesday for four or five days to hunt. this isn't an option now. We will have to hunt all five days with the rest of the world. I realy think this is bad for the deer and bad for the hunters. Most on here have mentioned not having weekends to hunt. I like the hunt the middle of the week. This screwed both of us and made no improvement to the herds. I will be very surprised to see suces rates drop. I couls see them actually going up. Very bad deal :evil:


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

General Rifle hunters get hosed again. Personally I see our only recourse is to put pressure on the governer. 

He!! they might as well assign us each one day to hunt, charge us to use a state installed tree stand, and charge us more to hunt. Then let those high dollar rack hunt'n individuals hunt were ever they want. 

Oh wait we're dam* near there........


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## Gerky (Nov 11, 2008)

To hell with Don P and the SFW


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

Well, last year was the last my Dad will ever hunt! He has had enough of Utah and this type of Sh%#! Thanks Utah, my lifelong hunting partner is through  . My money will now go to Idaho and Wyoming.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Gerky, that was a good first post. +1 agianst SFW. Someone needs to address their reasoning in this forum and others in order to restore my support. Otherwise their name is tainted.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

5 day deer hunt, how about the 3 day deer hunts on the currently 5 day deer units?


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## ruddy (Nov 10, 2009)

Bugchucker, Ive never complained about the number of deer, in fact the last few years Ive actually seen a increase in the deer numbers where I hunt. In 1994 when the deer numbers where really low, I still enjoyed the hunt with my family. Ive been hunting deer in Utah since the time I was 5yrs old. I hunted for many years with 3 of my best friends, I could be hunting Camels in Utah, and as long as I was with my family it would be enjoyable. But by limiting the hunt to 5 days it just takes away from the quality time my family gets to spend together, away from work, doing what we love so much. If there is no evidence that this will increase the deer herds or help them then why put it into effect. I know your meat hunters, who will usually hold out the first day, will be blasting anything with horns (I know I would). My question is, when is enough enough? I think anybody who deer hunts with tradition in mind will throw in the towel. Utah only tries to cater to the guy with money hunting for horns. They have forgot about the people who hunt with generations of family and friends. I will spend my time and money hunting big game out of state and focus more on waterfowl here in the state. What next a 5 day grouse hunt. Ridiculous


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Yes and a 3 day hunt in the 5 day areas too. HAHA this is honestly like reading a whorror story, and no my spelling is good on whorror. I am very suprised the public is this excited about this crap. It has been going on for years, last year it happened to archery, and everyone was talking on going to the state capitol and declaring war. Yet the next year they do it again and again, wonder what will be the final straw for the public, maybe that is what they are searching for?


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## stick (Jun 11, 2008)

A- F monday G- L tuesday, you get the 2012 idea. Every year all the new rules being changed, i guess if its broke just keep fixing it? -)O(- utah


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

??????? Confusing, maybe an idea would be like the bowl games. If everyone would shut off their tv and not watch a single bowl game there would be a play off implemented for next year.

I for one would take a year off to show how much the public puts in the pot. If nobody bought a tag, I am certain the WB would be alll ears.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

KSL article states:


> The Utah Wildlife Board on Thursday reduced the 2010 general deer season from nine days to five, except for hunters 17 or younger.
> 
> The board acted on a proposal by the group Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.
> 
> Five-day seasons have been used in southern Utah in recent years to help herds increase their numbers. State wildlife biologists, though, say there's no indication that shortening the season will reduce the number of animals taken in the hunt.


The huge flaw is that the last change was done on the idea that with two weekends to hunt people are less likely to shoot the first thing they see; I agree with the two weekends for numerous reasons!!

Pro-that is some excellent insight and this really reaks of....something stinky! Even if it is a done deal, I think we, as the owners/stockholders/stakeholders and paying customers let the organization know that this sucks. To whom should we write? Not only the process, but also for the actual outcome and let them know how it affects the long time hunters that won't go now too.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm not sure if I believe the data that more deer are taken during a 5 day hunt than a 9 day hunt. There isn't 100% mandatory harvest. It's an estimation based on phone surveys. The DWR also claims that hunters will kill the first buck they see, but this might be false because people have different standards on the type of buck they are willing to kill. You always have hunters who will kill a yearling buck no matter if it's the first day or the last day. You will always have guys who will eat tag soup if they can't find a nice buck.

I have passed up a lot of 2 points over the years because I just can't bring myself to kill a yearling buck. It's just my standard of hunting.

The weather also plays a big factor and sometimes towards the end of the hunt we get more snow and big bucks are slaughtered. I believe the 5 day hunt will save more bucks, but it will take a few years to notice the difference. I also believe that people will see bigger bucks. It has seemed to work in the Southern and Southeastern regions.


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## hunter_orange13 (Oct 11, 2008)

i think this is bull crap. we need to go on strike. my dad was saying if this passed (does anyone know if it did? i can't find any info on it) we would have to start doing week long archery elk hunts. and thats what everyone else will start doing. whens the next rac meeting?


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## Bhuntin (Sep 8, 2007)

STOP GIVING DOE PERMITS!! If you want to increase the herd stop shooting the ones that reproduce. I hate this state. That's why Idaho gets all my money.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Goffy. With you on the antler restrictions 100%, That ain't popular here but, oh well. Lets look at some data and stats from the DWR. #1 Lets limit the amount of archers in southern utah for the year 2009, And then find out ,, OOPS! Not as many as we thought.. Data and stats# 2. From the letter that I received 3 years ago. Most of the Mule Deer harvested in Utah are taken in the first 4 days of the rifle hunt, So lets change the hunt to 9days. to cut down on the harvest,OOPS! DATA and Stats.#3 Lets go back to a 5 day rifle hunt to increase the buck to doe ratio or a 3 day hunt, which ever,OOPS!! Ya see a pattern here, Now DATA and stats # 4 Lets do away with antler restrictions.WHY Cause it did't work! based on are DATA and Stats..And the other word. Reasearch! OOPS and we as hunters bow< muzzy. rifle R. to beleive any of this?! Someone needs to get somebody.. anybody to clear the horse apples and BS out of the barn. How can we the willing being led by the unqualified every acheive anything? FUBAR!!!


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Have you ever seen a dog eat his own crap? It's kinda like our DNR. First he excretes a 5 day hunt, then he smells it and thinks oooh this was a bad idea. Then for some reason he eats it. 

First the DNR implemented the 5 day hunt. Then their own analysis and biologists concluded that it was bad. Then they implemented it state wide. 

Maybe its not feces their eating. It sounds like it is Peay. 

Now our bucks will be bouncing from camp to camp like pin balls in a machine filled with orange bouncers. Less days equals more pressure which equals more conflict between hunters and more dead deer. First they proposed 2 rifle seasons and somehow we ended up with 5 day and 3 day hunts. Who is responsible for this?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Goffy. With you on the antler restrictions 100%, That ain't popular here but, oh well. Lets look at some data and stats from the DWR. #1 Lets limit the amount of archers in southern utah for the year 2009, And then find out ,, OOPS! Not as many as we thought.. Data and stats# 2. From the letter that I received 3 years ago. Most of the Mule Deer harvested in Utah are taken in the first 4 days of the rifle hunt, So lets change the hunt to 9days. to cut down on the harvest,OOPS! DATA and Stats.#3 Lets go back to a 5 day rifle hunt to increase the buck to doe ratio or a 3 day hunt, which ever,OOPS!! Ya see a pattern here, Now DATA and stats # 4 Lets do away with antler restrictions.WHY Cause it did't work! based on are DATA and Stats..And the other word. Reasearch! OOPS and we as hunters bow< muzzy. rifle R. to beleive any of this?! Someone needs to get somebody.. anybody to clear the horse apples and BS out of the barn. How can we the willing being led by the unqualified every acheive anything? FUBAR!!!


Antler restriction is FUBAR, as you would say because it's been tried in many states and it doesn't work.


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## hunter_orange13 (Oct 11, 2008)

i like the idea of antler restrictions, but think of how many 2 points will be shot and left there "ooops i thought it was a 3"


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Have you ever seen a dog eat his own crap? It's kinda like our DNR. First he excretes a 5 day hunt, then he smells it and thinks oooh this was a bad idea. Then for some reason he eats it.
> 
> I always feed my dogs so they didn't need to eat their own crap. A dog that eats his own crap cannot wait to lick his owner afterwards. Don't take that comment personally.
> 
> ...


The Southern and Southeastern has had 5 day hunts for quite a few year. Everyone survived. The Southern and Southeastern guys LOVED the 5 day hunt. It made a lot of people mad when it was switched to a 9 day hunt. Deer aren't being bounced around from camp to camp as you describe.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

As far fetched as antler restrictions is.... A 5 day hunt is worse. I would consider myself to be one of the strongest anti-antler restriction advocates on this forum, but the 3-5 day hunting limit is anti-hunting. As a recreational activity we are restricted to a minimal amount of time at a price that remains the same. If given the option between antler restrictions and huntinng opportunity I will side with Goofyelk any day. 

We need to place emphasis on safety. The Utah department of public safety must recognize that the added preasure of condensed hunts will only create conflicts between participants in the 2010 season. If a potential hazard is recognized by enough concerned citizens then the department of public safety is obligated to intervene. This is a genuine concern.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> We need to place emphasis on safety. The Utah department of public safety must recognize that the added preasure of condensed hunts will only create conflicts between participants in the 2010 season. If a potential hazard is recognized by enough concerned citizens then the department of public safety is obligated to intervene. This is a genuine concern.


I believe you are blowing this away out of proportion. Did a lot of hunters get killed in the Southern and Southeastern units? Again a lot of hunters on these two units loved the 5 day hunt.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

coyoteslayer, you seem to support SFW and the 5 day hunt. I am willing to listen to your reasoning. I would also appreciate it if you could perhaps encourage one of their leading members to justify a 5 day hunt. Find us an article explaining this reasoning provide us with contact infomation to anyone implementing this 5 day hunt. 

Your an awesome hunter and you conntribute a lot to this forum. I will simmer down and hunt for 5 days as long as I feel validated. I dont want to create any hard feelings. 

P.S. how do you keep your dog from cleaning his junk? :lol:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

hunter_orange13 said:


> i like the idea of antler restrictions, but think of how many 2 points will be shot and left there "ooops i thought it was a 3"


That is exactly why it didn't work when it was implemented in the past. Figure in the new short season, the feeling of "competition" will be more fierce and I think even more mistaken shots will be taken. Maybe it works better in other states because seasons are longer and you have more time to look over a deer. Here in utah you see a buck on the hoof and you know the clock is ticking until someone else sees it and starts shooting. There seems to be less time to get a good look at a critter before lead starts flying.

And another thing about this 3pt or better bul****... Both me and my wife shot deer this year that were "3pt or better", *BOTH* of them were 1.5 year old deer with great genetics. What is the purpose of antler restrictions? To save yearlings or to just preserve deer with crappy antlers?

-DallanC


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

As far as the public safety issue is concerned. Utah has had several documented incidences where the safety of hunters has been compromised due to competion. One incident for 2010 is more than I would be willing to sacrafice at the expense of creating more competition in our non-trophy state.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

For years now all you guys have been complaining about how bad the deer hunting in Utah is. Now when they try to do something about it, you complain about that too. Its b!tch if you do and b!tch if you don't. No matter what changes they make, there will always be people crying about them. To all the guys who say they will now quit deer hunting, GOOD! and try and talk all your friends into doing the same.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

If there are any other anti-3-5 day hunters on this forum, please address your concerns so we can keep the momentum. I am opposed to it so far but my concerns are only a fraction of other conflicts that others may have in opposition to this regulation.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> As far as the public safety issue is concerned. Utah has had several documented incidences where the safety of hunters has been compromised due to competion. One incident for 2010 is more than I would be willing to sacrafice at the expense of creating more competition in our non-trophy state


The 5 day hunt isn't the issue. It's when people do stupid things. People have been hurt on a 9 day hunt. Again it isn't the amount of days, but it's people who are commiting stupid acts.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> coyoteslayer, you seem to support SFW and the 5 day hunt. I am willing to listen to your reasoning. I would also appreciate it if you could perhaps encourage one of their leading members to justify a 5 day hunt. Find us an article explaining this reasoning provide us with contact infomation to anyone implementing this 5 day hunt.


I have never been a member of SFW. I have seen more bucks during the 5 day hunt in the southern region. Other factors like wetter springs play a role as well. I have also seen more deer get killed on the 9 day hunt because of the weather pushing deer to lower elevations. A 9 day hunt would be better if it was earlier in October when weather doesn't become as much a factor.

I believe one of the reasons for the 5 day hunt is to see how people respond to it since next year they want to make two rifle hunts. I doubt the two rifle hunts combined will be 18 days long. I think they will have two rifle hunts each being 5 days long. So the change is coming sooner or later.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> I have never been a member of SFW. I have seen more bucks during the 5 day hunt in the southern region. Other factors like wetter springs play a role as well. I have also seen more deer get killed on the 9 day hunt because of the weather pushing deer to lower elevations. A 9 day hunt would be better if it was earlier in October when weather doesn't become as much a factor.
> 
> I believe one of the reasons for the 5 day hunt is to see how people respond to it since next year they want to make two rifle hunts. I doubt the two rifle hunts combined will be 18 days long. I think they will have two rifle hunts each being 5 days long. So the change is coming sooner or later.


Well what ever analogy that they can applied to the reason to go to a 5-day can be applied to not only general rifle, but also to archery, muzzly and all LE hunts since none of it is based on biology. So when can we expect 5-days hunts for all?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Well what ever analogy that they can applied to the reason to go to a 5-day can be applied to not only general rifle, but also to archery, muzzly and all LE hunts since none of it is based on biology. So when can we expect 5-days hunts for all?


Give me one good reason why an archery hunt and ML hunt would also be moved to a 5 day hunt. A rifle is a very effective weapon. Imagine being able to hunt as long with a rifle as the archery season. The success rate would probably be around 60 to 70%

LE units are for quality hunts, but some biology still comes into play on LE units. If the deer weren't managed properly then the unit would crash.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Well what ever analogy that they can applied to the reason to go to a 5-day can be applied to not only general rifle, but also to archery, muzzly and all LE hunts since none of it is based on biology. So when can we expect 5-days hunts for all?
> 
> 
> Give me one good reason why an archery hunt and ML hunt would also be moved to a 5 day hunt. A rifle is a very effective weapon. Imagine being able to hunt as long with a rifle as the archery season. The success rate would probably be around 60 to 70%
> ...


The average archer spends, I believe 7-days in the field. So why do they get better then 18? Sorry your 60 -70% number I don't believe is worth while. Go back and look at the numbers. Old days to new, the success has always pretty much been in the 20-30% range. With all the garbage for all these years, 180,000 to 70,000 hunters on the general season, to 13 days to 5 days, the change to success for the general rifle hunt has been squat.

LE hunts do nothing more than let a few hunt. It ties up vast amounts of land for a few. 70,000 hunters spread out across the whole state would give a very good hunt for all, not just a few.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> The average archer spends, I believe 7-days in the field. So why do they get better then 18? Sorry your 60 -70% number I don't believe is worth while. Go back and look at the numbers. Old days to new, the success has always pretty much been in the 20-30% range. With all the garbage for all these years, 180,000 to 70,000 hunters on the general season, to 13 days to 5 days, the change to success for the general rifle hunt has been squat.


Your data is flawed because archers can hunt from Aug 16th to Dec 31st. If they are ONLY hunting 7 days on average then we don't have any serious archers in this state. If rifle hunters hunted Aug 16th to Dec 31st then the success rate would be probably higher than 70%


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> Your data is flawed because archers can hunt from Aug 16th to Dec 31st. If they are ONLY hunting 7 days on average then we don't have any serious archers in this state. If rifle hunters hunted Aug 16th to Dec 31st then the success rate would be probably higher than 70%


Well my friend, I might be flawed, but yours is just as flawed. The extended is a special place and has unique reasons it is the way it is. I don't think it is just to include it when talking about general hunts.

When talking about general hunts, all of your reasons can be applied to the archers and all the rest of the hunts. So why are they?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> When talking about general hunts, all of your reasons can be applied to the archers and all the rest of the hunts. So why are they?


Then maybe you don't need a lot of time. The reason the 9 day hunt was switched to a 5 day hunt is to save more deer from being killed. Nebo is a good example. The buck to doe ratio was well below objective. There was 5 day hunt put in place for a few years and the buck to doe ratio rose from 8/100 to 16/100. That tells me it helped the buck to doe ratio.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > When talking about general hunts, all of your reasons can be applied to the archers and all the rest of the hunts. So why are they?
> 
> 
> Then maybe you don't need a lot of time. The reason the 9 day hunt was switched to a 5 day hunt is to save more deer from being killed. Nebo is a good example. The buck to doe ratio was well below objective. There was 5 day hunt put in place for a few years and the buck to doe ratio rose from 8/100 to 16/100. That tells me it helped the buck to doe ratio.


Did you bother to check and see if other factors played into the reason for the increase, (i.e. weather). No I'm sure you did not. Much easier to blame the general rifle. Just like the southern boys blaming archery hunt for over crowding.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Did you bother to check and see if other factors played into the reason for the increase, (i.e. weather). No I'm sure you did not. Much easier to blame the general rifle. Just like the southern boys blaming archery hunt for over crowding.


IN 2001 to 2003 we were still in a drought and the buck/doe population still increased. Now we are below objective. The 5 day hunt was working. You can ask Packout. He has a lot of data to back it up.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Did you bother to check and see if other factors played into the reason for the increase, (i.e. weather). No I'm sure you did not. Much easier to blame the general rifle. Just like the southern boys blaming archery hunt for over crowding.
> 
> 
> IN 2001 to 2003 we were still in a drought and the buck/doe population still increased. Now we are below objective. The 5 day hunt was working. You can ask Packout. He has a lot of data to back it up.


Did they not have a 5 day hunt last year? I know in the Manti's it was. What about 2007 and 2008. Both years where good to deer and I beleive 5 day hunts.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

this is a hard pill to swallow for all of us. BUT.. We should be carefull not to start blaming each other for it. We are all hunters. This effects all deer hunters in this state and possibly even other states.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

10yearquest said:


> this is a hard pill to swallow for all of us. BUT.. We should be carefull not to start blaming each other for it. We are all hunters. This effects all deer hunters in this state and possibly even other states.


You are right, it is our own hunters that are calling for a 5 day hunt.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Did they not have a 5 day hunt last year? I know in the Manti's it was. What about 2007 and 2008. Both years where good to deer and I beleive 5 day hunts.


Yes they did have a day hunt on the Nebo this last hunting season. Now it's been removed from the list. Isn't it just magical how every time they make it a 5 day hunt the buck to doe ratio increases, but It must be other factors every time. :lol: :lol:



> You are right, it is our own hunters that are calling for a 5 day hunt.


Because a lot of hunters see the benefits of a 5 day rifle hunt.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> Because a lot of hunters see the benefits of a 5 day rifle hunt.


Only to themselves and not the whole.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Huntoholic said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> > Because a lot of hunters see the benefits of a 5 day rifle hunt.
> ...


Hunting is an individual thing anyway. So if the individual benefits than a whole bunch of individuals will also benefit shouldn't they?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Only to themselves and not the whole.


Who is them and who is the whole?????? Hunters are hunters.

The DWR has been trying to change the rifle hunt to 9 days for years but the Southern and Southeastern Racs have always voted to keep it a 5 day hunt because that is what hunters wanted. It was changed last year to 9 days because the WB ignored the voice of the hunters. I was there.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Only to themselves and not the whole.
> 
> 
> Who is them and who is the whole?????? Hunters are hunters.
> ...


You are right, you are a hunter and I am a hunter, but on this issue you don't even come close to representing me.

So you have some kind of survey from all the Southeastern hunters? If so let see it.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Heres how the RACs voting went on 2010 5 day hunts.......

Central,
2010 Bucks, Bulls & OIAL Proposals
MOTION: To start all five day hunts on opening day
Passed 7 to 3
MOTION: To recommend a statewide five day general deer hunt for 18 and older and nine day hunt for youth 17 and younger
Failed 6 to 5 (RAC Chair voting to break tie)

Northern,
5. 2010 BUCKS, BULLS & OIAL PROPOSALS
MOTION: to accept as presented by Amy to accept DWR dates as presented and recommended; Loran seconds. Floyd would like make amendment that we shorten the entire regional deer hunt by 4 days. Amendment fails due to lack of second.
MOTION: to accept DWR’s recommendations
Passed 7 to 1; Floyd opposed

Northeastern,
MOTION by Amy to accept DWR dates as presented and recommended
Loran seconds
Floyd would like to second with amendment that we shorten days by 4.Amy motion to accept
Ron second
Vote is unanimous

Southern RAC,
2. 2010 Bucks, Bulls & OIAL PROPOSALS
MOTION: To accept the 2010 Bucks, Bulls & OIAL Proposals as presented with the exception that the Southern Region go to a 5 day any weapon hunt with a 9 day youth hunt.
VOTE: 5:2

Southeastern,
2010 Bucks, Bulls & OIAL Proposals
MOTION: To reduce the general season rifle deer hunt in the southeast region to five days in 2010 and reduce the length of all other general season hunts by 45%
Passed with one dissenting vote
MOTION: To accept the remainder of the 2010 Bucks, Bulls & OIAL Proposals as presented
Passed with one dissenting vote


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Slayer. say what you will about 3 point restrictions. OOPS! Who Cares. I'll have to send you pictures of some harvested animals during the 3 point or better. And then I'll send you a picture of of what happened the year after the restrictions were removed. Fact is I can't change your mind and I'll never change mine. The DWR was headed in the proper direction. and then? Data and Stats.. And that my freind is FUBAR.. Thank you.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

I am not a big fan of a shorter hunt as many of you are in the same boat. Funny thing is that I went hunting this year and on the way I was listening to a hunting talk show on KSL and they were saying, "make sure that you are not in a 5 day unit that starts next Wednesday." I made some phone calls and had people looking up areas that were mentioned in the 5 day change. My hunt quickly became a scouting trip. haha 
I do however accnowledge that the DWR and even the SFW know a lot more about the numbers and such than do I. I put my trust in their hands and suck it up while we go through this slump. They have been concerned for many years about the decreasing numbers of deer. I would rather see them do this than for nothing to be done and then who gets the blame? Cut backs are never fun when it comes to things like this but I feel that we have to give a little credibility to those who do this every day.


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## hunter_orange13 (Oct 11, 2008)

i don't like this 5 day idear. and i'm a youth hunter who can hunt 9 days. i wanna hunt WITH my dad


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> I do however accnowledge that the DWR and even the SFW know a lot more about the numbers and such than do I. I put my trust in their hands and suck it up while we go through this slump. They have been concerned for many years about the decreasing numbers of deer. I would rather see them do this than for nothing to be done and then who gets the blame? Cut backs are never fun when it comes to things like this but I feel that we have to give a little credibility to those who do this every day.


That's the rub, the DWR and SFW do NOT agree on this issue. All the data the DWR has/presented say the shorter seasons result in MORE bucks being harvested. Also, the deer population is INCREASING not decreasing. While deer numbers are down EVERYWHERE, not just Utah, they have been increasing over the last 10-15 years fairly steadily. This in thanks to the DWR, conservation groups like SFW/MDF, other groups/individuals and Mother Nature. I do NOT like the "doing something is better than doing nothing" mentality. That almost always results in a bigger mess than before. That is the mindset of politicians, it should NOT be the mindset of biologists and sportsmen. The DWR was/is against shorter seasons, the very people you suggest we should "give a little credibility to those who do this every day".


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

hunter_orange13 said:


> i don't like this 5 day idear. and i'm a youth hunter who can hunt 9 days. i wanna hunt WITH my dad


just because your hunt is over does NOT mean you have to go home. Come on!! 
If you want 9 days in the mountains or camping with your family or hunting with your kids you can stay in the hills for an extra four days. Take a shotgun and hunt grouse or chukers. Take your camera and hunt pictures.This change is hard to take. YES! But does it really change the way you will hunt? I really hope this helps the buck to doe ratios. I dont see this as much different than antler restrictions but I see that many people are against them as well. Quit saying this will ruin traditions or keep people from hunting and so forth. If hunting and traditions and family get togethers in october are important then you will make it happen even if you cant hunt! The only thing lost here is time spent in the field with a valid tag. The DWR is finally doing whats been needed for so long. LIMIT HARVEST BY REDUCING OPPORTUNITY. If this doesnt work and the deer herds drop more whats next.... cut tag numbers... LE in more regions....Way less opportunity..... MORE COST because they cant take the money losses. I really do not want to see that.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> elk22hunter said:
> 
> 
> > I do however accnowledge that the DWR and even the SFW know a lot more about the numbers and such than do I. I put my trust in their hands and suck it up while we go through this slump. They have been concerned for many years about the decreasing numbers of deer. I would rather see them do this than for nothing to be done and then who gets the blame? Cut backs are never fun when it comes to things like this but I feel that we have to give a little credibility to those who do this every day.
> ...


No wonder I went hunting in a closed area this past season...........I need to read a bit closer before making decisions. :mrgreen:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I do NOT like the "doing something is better than doing nothing" mentality. That almost always results in a bigger mess than before. That is the mindset of politicians, it should NOT be the mindset of biologists and sportsmen.


Not to hijack or turn political, but I had the same idea; those were the campaign slogans of the last two democrat Presidents and we all know how that has worked :mrgreen:


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

10yearquest said:


> ..........LIMIT HARVEST BY REDUCING OPPORTUNITY.


So when is the rest of our brothers going to buck up? You talk about limiting harvest, but you only pick on one group. Your analogy like "coyotes" is applicable to all if that is the way you feel, but you don't feel the need to apply it to all. Why?


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

> "The DWR is finally doing whats been needed for so long. LIMIT HARVEST BY REDUCING OPPORTUNITY. If this doesnt work and the deer herds drop more whats next.... cut tag numbers... LE in more regions....Way less opportunity..... MORE COST because they cant take the money losses. I really do not want to see that.


Unfortunately, this is EXACTLY the goal and plan of certain sportsmen's groups here in Utah because they see the gain their associates will reap which will then lead to their catered treatment in receiving high quality tags without having to participate in the general draw - which is what the general population (most of the UWN members) will be forced to deal with...

Think about it for a minute... If the entire state became an LE situation, it would take several years for avg. Joe to draw any tag (Keep in mind that residents can only apply for one species OIAL, and either/or on elk and deer each year while non-res can apply for EVERYTHING- EVERY YEAR), meaning that the avg. joe resident will not be in the woods hunting any species more than twice every 20 years...

The avg guy will not be out scouting and hunting every year because they know it will be a few more years before they get a tag... hence, when they do draw a tag unexpectedly (or after reaching the "butt plug") they will be much more likely to spend the bank to hire a guide or outfitter because they want to ensure they make good on their LE tag that they may never again draw in this state in their lifetime . . . 
Why do you think the guides assn has promoted having a cap placed on how many guides are allowed permits to operate in this state (and others!) - isn't that a federal anti-trust violation like if Ford were to buy out all other US mfg and then forcing a restriction on the sale of foreign autos in our country? Sure the Ford guys would love that, but what if my chosen truck or car isn't a Ford?

In addition, can you imagine the economic impact regarding loss in state sales tax revenues when this happens... RV sales will slow, 4-wheeler and trailer sales will drop, gas and grocery sales in Aug-Oct will drop, ammo, arrows, powder, guns - gun stores and archery shops will end up closing down for lack of yearly business... etc... etc... It will come down to the Pittman Robertson act having no cash to support our DWR and tag prices will soar even more to compensate... and then it will come to a completely privatized hunting situation like in Europe... which benefits very few at the top of the chain and it is very expensive and limited to who can even be involved...

Guys, I love to be in the woods as much as the next guy - and several years ago staked my business and career to work to ensure my kids get to enjoy my family's hunting heritage, but I sure won't be spending much of my money on a program I don't agree with and isn't following the recommendations of their own biologists and the general hunting population that pays their payroll. . .

the USA wasn't founded by a bunch of minorities making the rules for the majority, it was founded by people concerned with the majority rule, and not to get religious, but the Founding Forefathers and Old and New world prophets have long warned that when the majority no longer has control, we will lose our freedoms. We're at the door, and if we don't band together to make it a majority system (in Utah and abroad) we will lose our reason for owning guns, bows, and muzzies. We'll be bound in chains we have forged for ourselves.

There, got that off my chest.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Huntoholic said:


> 10yearquest said:
> 
> 
> > ..........LIMIT HARVEST BY REDUCING OPPORTUNITY.
> ...


 I am not picking on anyone. There are big differences in the harvest numbers. even if bow hunters had a 100% sucess rate they would only kill what?? 16,000 deer? And muzzloaders Would only kill How many?? with 70,000 rifle tags given out what would it take to kill 25,000 deer?? I do not have the numbers and will not get them. Its really easy logic that bow hunters and muzzloader hunters have already "bucked up" by choosing a weapon that is lower success and the opportunity for those weapons is and has been for a few years limited. I myself have not killed a deer in 8 years because I hunt with a bow or muzzleloader and have not had much sucess. I did not even have a tag for deer this year! Prior to this year I have had northeastern ml tags and got to hunt for 4 days on each tag. We did not have the plus of two weekends and ml hunters have not since 1993 or something. IN essence this will be the first year that the rifle hunters actually have it as bad as muzzleloader hunters as far as time goes.

NOW. I am not saying I totally agree with this decision or trust the wildlife board or the DWR. I think that money is the main priority for both and the DWR will always be two faced they have to sell it to us every year. I also believe there are things at work even here that are trying to eliminate hunting and all of our freedoms. I only wish there was an easier answer but this issue is so much more that a few lost days. Lets just be glad we can still hunt cause someday we may not have that luxury.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> elk22hunter said:
> 
> 
> > I do however accnowledge that the DWR and even the SFW know a lot more about the numbers and such than do I. I put my trust in their hands and suck it up while we go through this slump. They have been concerned for many years about the decreasing numbers of deer. I would rather see them do this than for nothing to be done and then who gets the blame? Cut backs are never fun when it comes to things like this but I feel that we have to give a little credibility to those who do this every day.
> ...


This is indeed incredibly perplexing. 
With the deer herds increasing steadily over the past 15 years, I don't understand why the DWR isn't proposing opening unlimited state wide permits again and giving back bow tags to boot.

This is obviosly a misunderstanding/major goof up by the DWR. It should be a longer more liberal deer hunting season, not a limited one. What in the he!! are they thinking???!!!???!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

1BandMan said:


> This is indeed incredibly perplexing.
> With the deer herds increasing steadily over the past 15 years, I don't understand why the DWR isn't proposing opening unlimited state wide permits again and giving back bow tags to boot.
> 
> This is obviosly a misunderstanding/major goof up by the DWR. It should be a longer more liberal deer hunting season, not a limited one. What in the he!! are they thinking???!!!???!


Utah's deer herds are still under objectives even though they have been increasing in overall numbers and buck:doe ratios in most parts of the general areas. I doubt we will ever see deer numbers like back in the 40's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Too much winter ground has been permanently been lost, far too many highways/freeways have cut through migratory routes/fawning grounds, pinion juniper has taken over thousands of acres of browse, among many other factors that make it impossible for deer numbers to ever get back to the "good old days". But, with MILLIONS being spent to restore/preserve/improve critical deer habitat the deer population can/should continue to improve. Bucks harvested by hunters has minimal/no impact on overall deer population numbers. Buck:doe ratios higher than 8-10:100 is solely for the 'benefit' hunters NOT the benefit of the deer herds.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Bucks harvested by hunters has minimal/no impact on overall deer population numbers. Buck:doe ratios higher than 8-10:100 is solely for the 'benefit' hunters NOT the benefit of the deer herds.


+1
This is what drives me nuts with most hunters...they don't give a flying fart about the population as a whole; all they care about is buck numbers. Most hunters falsely assume that cutting tags will mean a better deer herd when in fact all it does is improve buck/doe ratios. Limiting hunter harvest really doesn't do anything other than ensure more bucks and increase the number of mature bucks...it doesn't help improve herd numbers at all! If we increased our buck/doe ratios and managed for more bucks, many people would probably be happy with the management, but the deer herd as a whole wouldn't be increasing as quickly. With herds under objective, we SHOULD be managing for relatively low buck/doe ratios to ensure maximum growth potential. That is what the DWR is and should be doing!


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

> I have seen more bucks during the 5 day hunt in the southern region. Other factors like wetter springs play a role as well. I have also seen more deer get killed on the 9 day hunt because of the weather pushing deer to lower elevations. A 9 day hunt would be better if it was earlier in October when weather doesn't become as much a factor.


I think this really depends on the area you plan to hunt. I can see how in the southern region where there's a lot of public land this works out that way. But the area in the northern region that I hunt, a ton of snow moving the deer down actually has the opposite effect. it puts them all on private land where they are visible but totally inaccessible.

This year I hunted hard for 5 days, and I was there for some pretty crappy weather. We went around nightly to check in on all of our neighbors, to see what they had taken and seen, thanks to the role the weather played, we only saw two bucks harvested the whole time. Plenty of bucks down on the fields below.

I can't help but think that this proposal will have an effect that works opposite of what the SFW is hoping for. I believe they are trying to manage for bigger deer. But I think the average hunter isn't going to let that 2 point walk with the limited time. I also think it will concentrate the number of people in the field. I know plenty of guys that won't go up until mid week and stay for the second weekend.

On top of this I think that this will create more crowding on the archery and muzzleloader hunts, because the increased opportunity of the other hunts is bound to start looking a lot more appealing. Either way, I'm shippping my stack of sportsman's voice magazines back to Don and asking for a refund.

And I think in the end a lot of us don't really understand our role as hunters. We are a mangement tool that should be utilized for the overall health of our deer herd. The whole point of our role isn't to kill the biggest buck we're here to take the excess animals and keep the herd within carrying capacity. If you don't believe me, reread your hunters saftey manual. I think a lot of us have forgotten that point since we were 12. We don't manage our herd for the betterment of the animals anymore. We manage for the maximum amount of money, while benefitting a few that are either lucky or wealthy. The whole thing really has me to the point that I'm almost ashamed to let my kids get wrapped up in this corrupt, broken system.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

10yearquest said:


> ....... I do not have the numbers and will not get them. Its really easy logic that bow hunters and muzzloader hunters have already "bucked up" by choosing a weapon that is lower success and the opportunity for those weapons is and has been for a few years limited.
> ..........We did not have the plus of two weekends and ml hunters have not since 1993 or something. IN essence this will be the first year that the rifle hunters actually have it as bad as muzzleloader hunters as far as time goes.


Well here I'll give you the success rate numbers for 2008, General Rifle - 28%, Muzzleloader - 27.6%, Archery - 19.7%.

The opportunity is nothing but excellent for archers and muzzy. It has been made that way to encourage people to choose those weapons. Which is great. But now we are talking quality of hunt. No biological reason per the men that are supposed to know. We are not talking about weekends, we are talking about time in the field. As you can see the success between rifle and muzzy is neal. 9% difference between archers and rifle.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "IN essence this will be the first year that the rifle hunters actually have it as bad as muzzleloader hunters as far as time goes". Southeastern units the muzzy's got to hunt 9 days in a sweet time of year. I got 5 days. Going back and looking you have received the same 9 day hunt up north.

In my book you have "Bucked" up nothing. Since this issue has nothing to do with biology, I'll say it again, maybe we should all be required to cough up 60% of our time in the field. Don't you want to save some deer?


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

quote="Huntoholic"]Well here I'll give you the success rate numbers for 2008, General Rifle - 28%, Muzzleloader - 27.6%, Archery - 19.7%[/quote]

I was not talking about percentages I was talking about actual numbers of animals killed.

70,000 rifle hunters with 28% sucess equals 19,600 dead deer.

16,000 archers with 19.7% sucess equals 3,152 dead deer.

14,000 muzzleloader hunters with 27.6% sucess eqauls 3,864 dead deer.



Huntoholic said:


> I'm not sure what you mean when you say "IN essence this will be the first year that the rifle hunters actually have it as bad as muzzleloader hunters as far as time goes".


I WAS talking about weekends. If I had 2 weekends to hunt on the muzzleloader hunt I would have been able to hunt for two more days just like I used to do when I actually hunted the anyweapon hunt. Thats in my opinion what has everyone so upset. The second weekend was a freebie.

AND. I was answering your question about limiting harvest. The numbers speak for themselves.



Huntoholic said:


> But now we are talking quality of hunt.


Are we. So a 5 day hunt is less quality? Quality is subjective. Your piont of view on quality may differ from mine and someone elses may be altogether different. My original post was not to debate weather or not the biology is sound. I just do not see this as the great travesty that some of you are making it out to be. I hope it works. I also take the things coming from the DWR with a grain of salt. Their very existence is a conflict of interest. Their money is the death of the very animals they are stewards of.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Well your chance to harvest a buck on the muzzy hunt is the same as mine. Our hunt length was the same. The Archers got more time because of their lower success. If you have a problem with the deer numbers (I don't think it is as bad as some are making it out to be) then by all means cut the permit numbers down. Who's numbers do I use to verify that the deer numbers are going down. Yours?

And when you say the numbers speak for themselves, I hope you are not using the DWR's numbers.

You don't see it as a travesty, because it may not have hit your hunting group.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Huntoholic said:


> If you have a problem with the deer numbers (I don't think it is as bad as some are making it out to be) then by all means cut the permit numbers down. Who's numbers do I use to verify that the deer numbers are going down. Yours?
> [/quote
> I have said this more than once. I do not trust a guy whos job depends on selling deer tags. If he tells the WB or the public that deer numbers are so low that tags need to be reduced or hunts need to be shut down then how is he going to pay his bills next year? I am basing my opinion of deer numbers on my own observations in the places I hunt. I also remember a few threads here about a month and a half ago complaining about the number of deer and the overall poor quality of thier hunt so I know my observation are not alone.
> 
> ...


Throughout the years we have all been "hit". This year its the any weapon hunt. This does effect me by the way. I think It may be harder next year to draw the archery tag I want!!! :lol:


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

10yearquest said:


> I think It may be harder next year to draw the archery tag I want!!!


Yep, there is going to be some rude awaking for some Archers and Muzzleloaders. I would not be counting on easy draws.


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## BugleB (Sep 24, 2008)

I agree with a couple of you from a few pages back. I agree with coyoteslayer that it would take a few years for a 5 day hunt to make a noticable difference. The trouble is, the DWR has proven again and again that they can't stick with any idea, good or bad, long enough to make a difference.

That is why they declared that antler point restrictions were a failure. They never stuck with it long enough anywhere that they tried it for it to become the undisputable resounding success that it was just starting to become when they dropped it. I am as old as oldfudd and like him, I have seen with my rapidly weakening eyes that the three point restrictions made a major improvement in the deer herd in the southern area that I hunted.

I also agree with those that say they are quitting the Utah hunt. The more of that attitude the better.

The only bucks that survive now are the ones with antlers so small that they can hide them behind their ears.

One other thing. Why so many advantages for the youth hunters? I never got any breaks in my youth and neither did my kids get any breaks when they were youths. My 30 year old son asked why they don't give his age group some retroactive breaks to make up for what they never got when they were young.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

I don't understand why with all the data out there that so many of you still think point restrictions will work. It has been proven over and over agian it will not. Utah is not the only state to try it. Many others have as well and they all failed. THere are other post on here with information if you look. The same thing was asked at the central rack last month. If you look for the meeting min. recordings on line its about 50 min. into the rack meeting.


A five day verses a nine day will not change anything. The only thing that is going to change anything at this point is to cut tag numbers. There are 3 times more people that want to hunt then there are tags. They also need to get rid of the dedicated hunter program. 

Come 2011 there are going to be even bigger changes. You think the deer numbers are down now. Wait untill there are two rifle hunts. Now that the WB asked for groups to look at smaller units I hope it will be in place come 2011. It would help make it easier to manage smaller areas to a buck to doe ratio then the larger ones we have now. I do wish they that with this split they would look at taking half the rifle tags now and rather then doing two rifle hunts just making half the tags muzzy tags and have more people durring the muzzy hunt and that would help reduce the pressure on the rifle hunt.


Bugle B there is one thing I agree on with you and that is why do the youth get so many perks. I thought the state was seeing a decrees in hunting apps and tag sales and that is why they started it. But all the data says other wise. This year alone there were 60,000 more applicaitons for tags then last year. Its great to see kids wanting to hunt and to get them into it but I don't think the way our state does it is the best way to go about it.


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## bighuntermark (Dec 11, 2009)

To all those fellow big-game hunters who wish to give the Utah DWR feedback on the new 3-5 day general deer season please email them at: [email protected] 
You may also call them at 801.538-4700.

Spread the word! Get your families & friends who hunt deer to each send a quick email to the DWR. Let them know exactly what you think of a 3-5 day deer hunt.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

bighuntermark said:


> To all those fellow big-game hunters who wish to give the Utah DWR feedback on the new 3-5 day general deer season please email them at: [email protected]
> You may also call them at 801.538-4700.
> 
> Spread the word! Get your families & friends who hunt deer to each send a quick email to the DWR. Let them know exactly what you think of a 3-5 day deer hunt.


Welcome bighuntermark!

Good point. Always a good idea to let the DWR know your feelings, pro or con.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's what I've observed over the last 40 years of general season "stuff"....

The very best general deer hunts there EVER WERE was during the period of 4 point ,
and then 3 point or better from the mid 70s thru 1982.

We had 11 day rifle hunts and November muzzle loader................
I spent many days on The Henrys, The Bookcliffs and Oak city,,It was FREAKIN UNREAL!
Not to mention the fact that all of us that archery hunted was given a second permit!
Yup,,,During the antler restrict years we also were allowed TWO BUCK DEER permits every
year....

After they lifted antler restricts and shot every thing out along with the 92 winter,
I put my rifle away and have never rifle general deer hunted once since...

Thank Gwad I have a gig that allows me to be on multiple limited entry hunts every year,
If it werent for that I would probably quit hunting myself and just take the kids.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

All I know is that I can't tell what is fact or opinion. I remember when the set numbers of permits came out(97000 or so). It was easy to draw and now I'm lucky if I draw every other year so I hope this pisses off enough people that I can draw out again where I want too every year for a while again. oh, sorry I guess I'm being selfish and not caring about traditions or the deer herds. But as long as I can remember you can still hunt 5 days (Which is close to the average field days on a nine day hunt) then leave the deer alone and still camp the next weekend and have a good time just camping with the family. Sorry I think this is a good thing. especially is we make smaller units next year

Deer Numbers: Didn't we have a major winter kill two years ago remember all the snow and feed programs. I doubt DWR numbers are right on deer herds. Carry capacity is projected a 450,000 I don't think this will ever happen because of the lose of habitat and us running them over. More deer means more getting ran over. We could already be at carry capacity. Idk just a bunch of inferences from the data I've seen and heard. Fun to read and think about all that has been said though.


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