# Input about chubs in Scofield?



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

So yesterday at Scofield, about half of everything we caught were chubs. We kept all the chubs and used them for bait. Here's my issue, I talked to multiple people on the ice as well who were catching chubs. Every one of them were pitching the chubs back in the water. I encouraged them to keep the chubs or burry them in the snow somewhere or rip a gill or something but they all looked at me like i was inhumane. Why doesn't the fish and game post something at the resevoir or in the proclamation about encouraging or requiring all chubs to be kept or destroyed? 3 years ago at Scofield you couldn't find a chub and the trout were large, that place is really taken a dive.


----------



## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

In three trips, I've only caught 5 chubs. They all died. I won't be releasing any. They'll either be bait, fertilizer, or cat food. The chubs eat the food that the trout need (except the tigers and cutts that are big enough to eat nothing but chubs). 

Fishrmn


----------



## Tigru (Oct 15, 2007)

I agree. I've been there twice recently and every Chub I caught was used for bait. I think others were doing the same because I came across several recently used holes and they were littered with Chubs.


----------



## TopH2O (Mar 18, 2009)

By all means, all chubs should be killed if taken from the water at Scofield. Chubs are non-protected fish and there is no prohibition to their removal. I wouldn't recommend littering with the carcasses, so use the chubs for bait either at Scofield or elsewhere. Littering is probably a poor choice of wording. Chubs left on the ice will most likely be consumed by coyotes, red fox or the birds in short order. Sport harvest of chubs probably isn't large enough to be significant in the long run, but every one removed is a plus.
Mike


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

I know some will not agree with this but I keep the first two chubs I catch and the rest go back.. Where are the biggest fish in the state for the most part?? Places with lots of Chubs... More bait fish=bigger trout. Thats only my opinion.. but i'm someone who would rather catch one fish over 23 inches than 50 smaller fish.


----------



## Tigru (Oct 15, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> I know some will not agree with this but I keep the first two chubs I catch and the rest go back.. Where are the biggest fish in the state for the most part?? Places with lots of Chubs... More bait fish=bigger trout. Thats only my opinion.. but i'm someone who would rather catch one fish over 23 inches than 50 smaller fish.


+1
Too many Chubs suck, but some is good (in my mind) for the fishery and helps produce some hogs. I too would rather catch 1 lunker than tons of dinks. (But catching both in one trip is just fine by me)


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Tigru said:


> Nor-tah said:
> 
> 
> > I know some will not agree with this but I keep the first two chubs I catch and the rest go back.. Where are the biggest fish in the state for the most part?? Places with lots of Chubs... More bait fish=bigger trout. Thats only my opinion.. but i'm someone who would rather catch one fish over 23 inches than 50 smaller fish.
> ...


Well yeah, that too. :mrgreen: Scofield will turn around fast. Its shallow and there are not many places for those chubs to hide once all these dink trout grow up a bit. I hope they wont stock it so heavily next fall.


----------



## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Somehow I don't think the chubs will disappear even if everyone who catches them removes them from the lake. We may see cycles, where some years they are up, and some years they are down, but they'll never be eradicated.


----------



## Bhilly81 (Oct 18, 2009)

i find all this really intresting to me i have been up there 4 times with the ice on and many times in the summer on a boat and in all this time i have only caght one chub and nobody else we were with have ever caught any others and yet i hear all you guys catching alot of them why is this?


----------



## Jacksonman (Jan 16, 2008)

bigboybdub said:


> i find all this really intresting to me i have been up there 4 times with the ice on and many times in the summer on a boat and in all this time i have only caght one chub and nobody else we were with have ever caught any others and yet i hear all you guys catching alot of them why is this?


I agree. I have fished Scofield at least 2 dozen times in the last few years, have caught hundreds of trout and have never caught or seen caught a chub. I must be doing something wrong.  Those big tigers won't stay off my line.


----------



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

I want to say maybe it's location for the chubs but after fishing there this summer in multiple locations the chubs are in every part of that resevoir. You might not be catching chubs if you are using a semi medium to large hook. There mouths are very very small and you will only catch them on small hooks. 

And one other thing to keep in mind people, we can't keep waiting around for the fish population to all of a sudden become large. We can't compare strawberry slot to scofield slot because of the size and depth of the two resevoirs and the popularity of bait fishing on scofield. The fish in scofield will never be what they were or what we want them to be as long as we have a chub population. I know the fish and game frowns upon "littering" fish and I try not to do it but after having so many chub fillets the rest go in the garbage. We need to do our part to protect the water. You people that claim you pitch them back because you feel some are good for the bigger fish population I agree with you it may help with the size but if you think you are putting a dent in the population by throwing the ones away you catch you are wrong. Like chaser said, sport fishing will never put an end to the chubs but every fish out of water and not returned is one step the right way. The fish and game has one thing right, when they rotenone a lake they are doing it for the good of the resevoir, the chubs don't belong in there. If you have fished scofield in years past you would notice there is a tremendous amount of size difference now compared to 3 years ago. And Bigbdub, I was like you, I have never caught a chub in there until this summer and now that's changing in a hurry. Hope it don't continue.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

> There mouths are very very small and you will only catch them on small hooks.


I've caught them on 1/8 ounce jigs


> We can't compare strawberry slot to scofield slot because of the size and depth of the two resevoirs


Why? Wouldnt it be harder to control chubs in strawberry since its bigger and deeper? Yet the Cutts are doing it?? And Scofield has Tigers....


> and the popularity of bait fishing on scofield


Now this I agree with. I hope the COs keep a close watch and ticket people keeping fish or killing them. I think there will be lots fewer bait huckers there with the new regs if they watch it better. Plus they will catch many of the rainbows anyway on powergoo so thats ok too...


> You people that claim you pitch them back because you feel some are good for the bigger fish population I agree with you it may help with the size but if you think you are putting a dent in the population by throwing the ones away you are wrong


So why do it?? That contradicts the idea of killing them??


> chubs don't belong in there


*Utah* chubs are native to *Utah* Rainbow trout? Tiger trout? Browns? 


> If you have fished scofield in years past you would notice there is a tremendous amount of size difference now compared to 3 years ago.


I dont fish Scofield that often but the fish I saw come out of there in October were pretty nice...


> I have never caught a chub in there until this summer and now that's changing in a hurry. Hope it don't continue.


Hence the slot... time will tell but I predict there being a LOT of big fish being caught there in the next two years.

This thread is called "Input about chubs in Scofield" I gave you my input. I believe that more chubs=bigger fish. Its happened at Strawberry, its happened at Grantsville, Jordanelle, and many other places. And I think it will happen at Scofield. This fish didnt get this big eating bugs.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22453&start=0
Or these..
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20600&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=strawberry+is+unreal
or this one..
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22524
or this..
http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gf ... ry;#536607
or this one...
http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Utah ... tt;#382696

And these are just the ones on forums. There are many many more big fish being had. Again, time will tell. I will continue keeping a few for chub strips that I tip tubes with and throw back the rest. :shock: :lol:


----------



## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> I know some will not agree with this but I keep the first two chubs I catch and the rest go back.. Where are the biggest fish in the state for the most part?? Places with lots of Chubs... More bait fish=bigger trout. Thats only my opinion.. but i'm someone who would rather catch one fish over 23 inches than 50 smaller fish.


You obviously didn't fish Strawberry or Scofield during the 1960s and 70s. There were more big fish, and they grew big faster. Some fish will turn piscivorous, and eat the chubs, but the toll on growth rates of the other trout isn't worth having the chubs in there.

I hadn't caught a chub at Scofield since probably 1975 or so. The trout used to average close to 17 inches with many over 24. Not any more. Reason? Chubs. If there were only shiners in there I would agree that they would help the fishery. But chubs get big, they grow fast, reproduce too fast for the competition, and get big enough that *very* few trout will feed on them.

Fishrmn


----------



## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Knock it off Nor-tah !!!!

Otter Creek was the same way......1 chub-4 trout, that ratio wasn't too bad, then it went to 4 chub-one trout. Then everybody was crying. There were still a few large fish but not the quantity we'd like to see.

From the DWR web-site....it's no wonder why the Tiger Trout are doing so well, but what about the other species of trout ?

http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/05-10/scofield.php


----------



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

ha ha.. your posts crack me up. You cut and paste what you chose but leave out the rest of my statements. So you think the fish and game has their head up their azz's because they're trying to control the population? I mean after all, what your saying is the more chubs the bigger the trout? So why don't they plant chubs in every resevoir, according to your solution that makes a blue ribbon fishery state? And yes, there is a huge difference on putting a slot on scofield compared to putting a slot on Strawberry for multiple reason's. 

Mark my words on these two things and I don't know why people argue the point. I could refresh this every year or every month and it will still be a heated debate and I could continue to post this for years to come.

#1- as long as there is an abundant amount of chubs in scofield (not strawberry) you will see a very stunted growth in the fish compared to previous years. Maybe...MAYBE... you will see a big fish here and there but on average they will be noticeably smaller

and #2- The carp problem will never go away in utah lake unless new technology finds a way to destroy certain types of fish and I don't see that happening any time soon.


----------



## killdeer (Dec 9, 2009)

My input.
KILL THE CHUBS! Use them for bait or dispose of them properly. There is no evidence that sport fish can completely control this bane. Think of the money spent by the DWR to control chubs in just Scofield and Strawberry in the last 30 years, to say nothing of the lost opportunity to fish while the lakes recover. Been around and long time and never have I seen a fishery that requires stocking remain viable once chubs infest (the two mentioned, Joes Valley, Ottercreek, Piute, Panguitch, Minersville, Pine Lake, Koosharem to name a few). I have taken nice fish from all these lakes, after treatment. They all suffer when the chubs take over. We need to help the aggressive species thin then down. There is nothing uglier than a 12+" chub.


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A couple random items. 

1. Chubs can be a blessing in a fishery (Jordanelle, where they help feed the trophy bass and browns), a managable asset with the right regulations and management that would be otherwise be a pest (Strawberry, as long as the slot limit remains), or a bad deal (any lake where the DWR wants to have a put-grow-and take RAINBOW fishery). The negative impact of chubs on rainbow fisheries is not debatable. Sadly, for many Utah anglers, put and take rainbow fishing is what most people want. Unless the angling habits of most Utahns change, for more trophy angling, slot limits and for warmwater species when applicable (many warmwater species like bass and perch will definitely control and utilize the chubs) then they will be looked upon as a bane to fishing management.

2. I had high hopes for Scofield when I heard that a slot limit was to be started this year and still do. However, many of the cutts I have caught out of there (most but not all) have been in poor condition and very skinny. Perhaps they won't work as well in Scofield as they do at the Berry in controlling chubs. I am happy to report that the mature tigers I have caught are nice and fat up there, so they seem to be doing their job.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

AFD, I find it funny that you start a thread and ask for opinions and then every opinion you get thats not yours gets shot down??? Whats up with that? I agree with some rational statements on this thread... I pretty much quoted your entire reply so I dont think I cut and pasted parts i liked. One thing I think you got wrong is that I like chubs. I would rather not have them in many waters but when they get somewhere I DONT agree with rotenone treatment. I believe you can stock lots of predatory fish and control them that way. Rainbow fisheries, on the other hand, get absolutely ruined by chubs, they are just not piscivorous enough to compete. 

I guess thats where I differ. I like bows and all but I like to go for more of the fish eating, aggressive, fast growing fish. And.... uh.... who won the big fish contest the past two years??

I also agree that there are certain salmoniods that grow much bigger on bugs (Brooks, YS Cutts) Thats why you can have unlimited red side dace in E lake and still have 14-16 inch Cutts forever in there. I'm young and still learning a lot about fishing but I am just telling it like I have seen it... and I have landed 14 fish over 24" this year.


I wanna know why you think Scofields slot wont work and Strawberrys did?? Please enlighten me since I dont know anything...


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

..Chubs are not good for Utah reservoirs: for every pound of baitfish added to an ecosystem, you lose a pound of gamefish. That's the biology. The bucket--or the fishery-- can only hold so many pounds of fish. Some have this notion that we can't or won't grow big fish without bait fish. This is untrue...trout growth/size is greater without competitor baitfish such as emeralds and redsides or chubs. It has been proven time and again that reservoirs with chub problems have the highest growth rates and largest average size fish when they are void of competitor bait fish such as chubs, shiners, suckers, etc.

Also, you mention Strawberry as an example of where trout are big as a result of the chubs...I don't necessarily agree. Trout may very well be controlling chubs, but if you look back at Utah state records, the state record cutthroat was caught from Strawberry during a time when chubs did NOT inhabit the reservoir. The thing is that Strawberry would get more cutthroat growth and larger average size fish without the chubs...the chubs compete with trout for the available food. 

The same thing happens with bass in utah's reservoirs...the periods of most growth in reservoirs like Sand Hollow and Quail Creek were when they first began filling and were originally stocked...when NO baitfish existed.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> thing I think you got wrong is that I like chubs. I would rather not have them in many waters but when they get somewhere I DONT agree with rotenone treatment. I believe you can stock lots of predatory fish and control them that way. Rainbow fisheries, on the other hand, get absolutely ruined by chubs, they are just not piscivorous enough to compete.


This quote reminded me of Joes Valley...a fishery where chubs rule the biomass and where there are some really big splake. Tiger trout and cutthroat have also been stocked into Joes Valley with minimal success. The interesting thing is that the majority of the fish in Joes Valley are small, skinny, and unhealthy. The chub population despite a lot of predatory fish has NOT been controlled. Stocking lots of piscivorous trout on top of chubs really has no effect on chub populations and trout growth remains very low because stocked trout must compete with chubs for available food until they grow to sizes large enough to prey on chubs. If chubs are already present at high levels, most trout will NEVER grow enough to ever start eating chubs...and, if they do grow large enough on whatever other food source is available, there is a very good chance that the trout will never switch over to chubs as a food source anyway. The best thing that could happen for trout and trout fishermen in Utah's reservoirs is for the chubs to completely disappear!


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

I've heard that state record at strawberry is bogus?? No pics, 1930 something??

Why were the fish in strawberry all around 16-17 inches 5 years ago and now they average 19-20? 
I'm not the only one noticing this...
http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/03-12/strawberry.html
http://wildlife.utah.gov/strawberry/straw1.php

And if the biomass is not working at the berry, then why are there so many Kokes being stocked??

And finally, we have been over this on this very thread, you cant compare rainbow put and takes like Quail and Sand Hollow to high mountian reserviors like strawberry!!! Hatchery bows dont eat chubs...

Thanks for the response to my PM a few weeks ago too. :roll:


----------



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

I didn't say anything about you didn't know anything. I think I said it pretty straight forward already why the fish size are stunted in there. And I was unaware that you won the big fish contest the past two years that is impressive I can't say that about myself. Maybe I'm not of your caliber on the big fish scale. I have caught a few over 24" this year my best coming in at 15 pounds but that's beside the point. Everyone else seems to get the point. I feel it is best if everyone kept the chubs they caught and I feel it would benefit the resevoir and help with the goal of the resevoir to produce the quality of fish it once did. I am very aware of what it produced 3 years ago and I would bet my saving account that scofield won't produce cutts or rainbows in there the way it did 3 years ago with the chub population being what it is. All I said was I think it's best to encourage people to keep the chubs they catch to decrease the population.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

You still didnt answer the questions. Why cant we compare Scofield to strawberry?
The management plan is working at Panquitch.. That place has been a mess till the slot and now its doing much better.

The biologists seem to think it will work??
http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/08-12/reg_changes.php

And how come we didnt see any pics of this 15 pounder!!!??? I got a 13 this year but it was on private waters so that doesnt really count.


----------



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

Dude, I already stated why it doesn't work. I appreciate the input. I asked for it and got it but all you want to do is argue, I won't argue with you. Release every chub you catch but don't bitch about the stunted size of the fish when you do. The fish are getting bigger in strawberry on average because of the slot not because of the chubs.. I can't believe you really used that as a statement. I agree with you to a point. Bigger fish will eat chubs I agree. Nobody fully agrees with you but keep arguing. I did ask for input and I got it.. thanks.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> I've heard that state record at strawberry is bogus?? No pics, 1930 something??
> 
> Why were the fish in strawberry all around 16-17 inches 5 years ago and now they average 19-20?
> I'm not the only one noticing this...
> ...


1) The state record from Strawberry is NOT bogus...the DWR has a skin mount of the fish.

2) The average size of fish from Strawberrry has remained virtually unchanged over the last 5 years...here are the gillnet results: 
K factors
2008 = 0.86
2007 = 0.86
2006 = 0.85
2005 = 0.83
2004 = 0.88. 
Average sizes
2008 = 460 mm
2007 = 476 mm
2006 = 456 mm
2005 = 444 mm
2004 = 449 mm

3) I never said that the biomass at Strawberry wasn't working. The regulations at Strawberry are working very well...the cutthroat are doing a good job of keeping the chubs in check. But, I definitely think that trout would be bigger and healthier without the chubs. IN fact, the K factors--relative plumpness--of trout in Strawberry is relatively low. K factors of 1 or greater are considered to be fat/healthy fish.

4) With Quail and Sand Hollow, I was referring to bass, not trout. Bass growth rates were higher before any bait fish existed...and when the reservoirs were new.

It is a complete myth that trout grow bigger and better in lakes/reservoirs where chubs, shiners, minnows, suckers etc. exist!

Also, FWIW, hatchery rainbows will and do prey on chubs....just not at the same rate as cutthroat...and at similar rates as wild rainbows.

Also, the DWR is predicting a decline in fish sizes from 2009 to 2010 because of low survival rates of stocked fish in 2005 and 2007.


----------



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

Here's the pic you wanted
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18358


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

americanforkdude said:


> Dude, I already stated why it doesn't work.


I'm not trying to argue everything. I really am trying to learn. My first post was in good taste and non controversial, then you came on and told me how wrong I was.

I have learned a lot on here, thats why I post. I have also seen first hand what has happened at the berry and other places. And *what the biologists are saying*
I just re read the whole thread and the only answer you gave as to why the slot wont work at Scofield is that its smaller and more shallow? And that there are more bait fisherman. I would argue that strawberry sees just as much if not more bait fishing and like I said before, the bait fishing will slow as the regs are enforced. 
So why does the division think it will work??
http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/08-12/reg_changes.php


> Putting Bear Lake cutthroats in the reservoir will give it two "chub eaters" the Bear Lake cutthroat trout, and tiger trout that are in the reservoir now.
> 
> Putting special regulations on Bear Lake cutthroats and tiger trout will help ensure plenty of the large predatory fish stay in the reservoir.
> 
> ...


As for the smaller fish, I think this has something to do with it. Once the chubs get under control the size will increase.
SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	2385	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	3843	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4770	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4240	7.89"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4240	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4770	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	9010	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	9010	8.15"	05/11/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4420	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4472	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	8840	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	8840	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4160	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4160	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4472	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	CUTTHROAT	4420	8.19"	05/12/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	12160	8.56"	05/13/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	12160	8.56"	05/14/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	5865	9.95"	09/03/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	TROUT TIGER	37800	5.75"	10/20/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	TROUT TIGER	37800	5.75"	10/20/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	13750	7.78"	10/21/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	TROUT TIGER	46900	5.97"	10/21/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	3984	7.88"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	3840	7.88"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	1872	7.88"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	3840	7.88"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	4240	7.63"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	4240	7.63"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	4505	7.63"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	4717	7.63"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	3840	7.88"	10/26/2009

SCOFIELD RES	Carbon	RAINBOW	3840	7.88"	10/26/2009


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

americanforkdude said:


> Here's the pic you wanted
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18358


Oh, I meant trout trout. Thats a heck of a fish! Macks are a whole different ball game. I have landed 14 trout over 24...


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Nor-tah said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard that state record at strawberry is bogus?? No pics, 1930 something??
> ...


Is this at Scofield?


----------



## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> americanforkdude said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the pic you wanted
> ...


Nice mac sir that will be on my list for next year, and 14 Trout over 24" that is a great thing you have me smoked in that category!


----------



## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

This has been an interesting thread. I think both sides have some valid points.

On the Strawberry Cutthroat record, I believe that was a Yellowstone Cutt and not one of the Bear Lake Cutts in there today. All About Trout by Robert Behnke is my source on that.

I agree that chubs provide valuable forage in some circumstances for predatory trout. And, it can help make those trout grow bigger and faster.

The problem is that at some point the chubs grow so large that they will never be eaten by another fish. (Not that it is impossible, but it makes it more unlikely).

I submit that it is a matter of numbers. Say a 24" trout needs to eat 5 oz of fish per day (whether or not that is true, just assume it is for purposes of explanation). Once a chub reaches 10 oz, it has provided 2 days worth of food for a large trout. But, the same trout could have eaten 10 1 oz baby chubs - a much better effect on the overall population while still providing the same nutritional value to our hypothetical trout.

Therefore, it is better for the large trout to eat the smaller chubs because they eat them in larger numbers than larger chubs. If those small chubs are allowed to become big chubs, the trout won't be able to eat them fast enough to prevent them from spawning again. Thus, I believe it is preferable that only a minimum number of chubs reach maturity and that the chub population is skewed towards young chubs.

If that is true, the only way to keep mature chub numbers to a minimum is by angling. I think any chub that is big enough to bite my hook is big enough that it will take a trout too long to digest and be hungry for more so I keep and kill all of them. 

Large trout, left to their own devices, will still have plenty of chubs to eat because the anglers can't get them all. We can help, however, to check the overall spawning population.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> I know some will not agree with this but I keep the first two chubs I catch and the rest go back.. Where are the biggest fish in the state for the most part?? Places with lots of Chubs... More bait fish=bigger trout. Thats only my opinion.. but i'm someone who would rather catch one fish over 23 inches than 50 smaller fish.


Ok....so which is it? Do you believe this:

"I dont think trout grow bigger in lakes with chubs, I dont. Thats where you guys have got me wrong. I wish there were no chubs in utah BUT there are and since there are we get to have a slot and a few big fish to enjoy because of it."

Or, do you believe the above quote?


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Dodger said:


> On the Strawberry Cutthroat record, I believe that was a Yellowstone Cutt and not one of the Bear Lake Cutts in there today. All About Trout by Robert Behnke is my source on that.
> 
> I agree that chubs provide valuable forage in some circumstances for predatory trout. And, it can help make those trout grow bigger and faster.


1) Why does it matter? The theory some are espousing is that chubs help trout grow larger...if that were true, wouldn't we potentially have broken that old record many times since chubs and other bait fish were introduced?

2) In Utah reservoirs, trout sizes would be larger and fish growth rates would be faster without chubs. We know this because growth rates after rotenone treatments are always higher for trout than after chubs have established themselves in number...this is the case for lake after lake and reservoir after reservoir across the state.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

You can count on W2U to come in for a good argument everytime!! A few weeks ago you admitted that you like the contention so it is pointless to argue with you.

Please go read all the articles I linked to and get back to me.
Here is my out look again...
Best case senario, no chubs. 
Since there are chubs, Chubs=Some Big fish
I dont think its possible to eliminate chubs once they are in a water so I take an optimist approach and am happy with the large fish they produce. I would LOVE to see Yellowstones in Strawberry and no Chubs, Bows, or BL Cutts.

I'm out, going to Arizona right now to shoot quail, and play golf in 70*. 8) Sorry this got heated AF dude. i respect your opinions and hope you can respect mine.


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A few more items that will agree and disagree with just about everyone participating here, but are interesting all the same. :?

1. The DWR did a food survey in 2005 on Strawberry cutts.
Below is a link from BFT to it, note especially the table posted.
http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gf ... 14;#239214

It shows that zooplankton is the single biggest food item consumed by the Bear Lake cutts, even the big boys. BL cutts consume 4000 tons of zooplankton out of strawberry annually. It is true that big trout at least can do fine without baitfish on the menu. Look though at all the other things the cutts are eating. Good stuff.

2. In light of above, 
"The best thing that could happen for trout and trout fishermen in Utah's reservoirs is for the chubs to completely disappear!"

May be true in a vacuum but the reality is that the chubs are here to stay. There will be no more rotenone treatments for Strawberry and probably not many for several of our waters that may have had them in the past. So Utah's anglers are going to have to get used to management strategies other than wiping the slate clean every few years.

3.


wyoming2utah said:


> 4) With Quail and Sand Hollow, I was referring to bass, not trout. Bass growth rates were higher before any bait fish existed...and when the reservoirs were new.


How much of that increased growth rate is due to the nutrient release that occurs when any new dammed fishery is formed? This is seen across all species when new dams are built. In most cases, small baitfish appear very rapidly in a new dam and are utilized immediately by the bass. (SH had planted bluegills present from day 1) The case that bass and other large warmwater predators could achieve maximum size without baitfish is questionable IMO. Stripers in Lake Powell do not do well without their shad. Big walleye get skinny and die when there is no baitfish. Bass could eat crayfish, but examples such as Deer creek show that crayfish alone are not ideal without fish prey to supplement.


----------



## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Nor-tah said:



> I'm out, *going to Arizona right now* to shoot quail, and play golf in 70*. 8) Sorry this got heated AF dude. i respect your opinions and hope you can respect mine.


Arizona also has chubs Nor-tah !!!! :wink:


----------



## JAT83 (Sep 9, 2007)

I joined this thread a bit late! I must be a bad fisherman...In all the years of fishing, I have never caught a chub :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I am not a biologist and I don't know much about chubs, but from what it sounds like I will be keeping every chub I catch...(if I ever catch one)...and use it for bait!


----------



## Wilford (Mar 31, 2009)

This discussion has been interesting. Apparently it is extremely difficult to ever get a one- hundred percent kill with the treatment of a reservoir. So the chubs will likely always be with us. I would like to have someone from the Dept. of Wildlife Resources weigh in on this subject. In the mean time I guess the approach is based on whatever an individual believes. As for myself and my observations (Not based on the fact that I am a mighty fisherman, I'm not) I believe that it has to do with population dynamics. If the majority of the biomass is chubs, I think that the fishing for game fish goes down hill. I think we only have to look at how often some reservoirs have been poisoned in the past to sustain good fishing. I doubt that some of reservoirs will ever be poisioned again becaused the cost to do so has increased. So, what we do as fishermen becomes even more important. I would be alright if they gave prison time for fishing with live minnows or illegal plants, just saying.


----------



## americanforkdude (Sep 13, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> I'm out, going to Arizona right now to shoot quail, and play golf in 70*. 8) Sorry this got heated AF dude. i respect your opinions and hope you can respect mine.


No beef here, funny how that post raised such a debate. I've enjoyed your posts and I know we've exchanged a few fishing secrets through pm. No hard feelings. I'm off to the Y game, hope Vegas is warm.. Go Cougs!


----------



## Jacksonman (Jan 16, 2008)

I leave for one day and you guys get all crazy. 

My two cents. Both Nortah and I are in our twenties so we didn't see Scofield and Strawberry in the good old days when the lakes averaged 24 inch 5 lb fish. My gut tells me that these claims are like the old timers who walked up hill both ways to school in 10 ft of snow. Fishermen are, well, fishermen, and fishermen exagerate, especially the old timers. 

I know that there were tons of nice fish caught before we were born. But in those days, there was a fraction of the fishing pressure, no powerbait, downriggers, fish finders, power augers, etc. and there was more dirt roads, no 4wd trucks and bad snow removal. Also, during this time many reservoirs were created or expanded or killed off and replanted. I think we can all agree that how a reservoir fishes right after it is created or expanded or killed off and replanted is not dispositive of how it will fish once it falls into its regular cycle. I did get to fish Yuba right after it was killed off and planted with bows and it was phenomenal. 5-8 lb bows were common. Now there are no bows, the perch are dissappearing and no one can figure out the pike/walleye mystery.

We also all know that FG produced monster browns and bows initially in the 1970's due to the huge forage base of chubs but as the chubs dissappeared, so did the big browns and bows. The macs are a different story.

My favorite lakes are Scofield and Strawberry and my favorite fish is the tiger trout (part brown trout). I would also bet that Nortah and myself have caught more large tigers and cutts and have fished these lakes as much or more than almost everyone on here in the last three years. Overall, the chubs seem to improve the fish that we target in these lakes. 

But there is a tipping point that if the chub population gets too strong, the trout won't be able to keep them in check (Joes Valley). I have caught several 20-24" tigers at Scofield this fall until the DWR planted a billion small trout. Then the tigers got full on trout and allowed the chubs a little break. I am not too worried about the Tigers and Cutts keeping the chubs in check. There are more big fish in Scofield than most of us would believe but they are all getting their fill of small niave trout right now. Give it a few months (especially next fall) and slot busters will become extremely common. As long as the DWR makes sure the slot is followed, I truly believe Scofield will be amazing. 

At the same time, i do understand the arguement that chubs are bad for fisheries that are primarily bows and / or put and take. The lake also has to have sufficient big predators to keep the chubs in check or they will prevent the little predators from becoming large enough to keep the chubs in check. But thankfully the DWR have a friend that I like to call the Tiger Musky. I cannot wait to see what happens at Joes Valley!!

A great benefit of trout that eat chubs is that they are ferocious and aggressive and attack spinners, streamers and minnow imitating lures. Fishing for tigers at Scofield this fall was the funest trout fishing i have ever done. Again, I cannot wait for next fall!!


----------



## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> Dodger said:
> 
> 
> > On the Strawberry Cutthroat record, I believe that was a Yellowstone Cutt and not one of the Bear Lake Cutts in there today. All About Trout by Robert Behnke is my source on that.
> ...


1) It doesn't matter. I'm just saying, compare apples to apples and species to species. A cutthroat in Strawberry today is not a cutthroat in Strawberry in 1930. Plus, I thought it was kind of an interesting fact.

2) You'll notice that I said "some circumstances." While I believe in the majority of circumstances, you are probably right, I'm not ready to concede that every circumstance will necessarily conform to the growth rates that you have identified as happening in lake after lake and reservoir after reservoir across the state. For example, larger chubs can make a few lunker predatory trout. It may collapse the rest of the fishery, but for a certain few lucky trout, life will be very good. That is at least one circumstance in which trout sizes are larger and fish growth rates faster with chubs than without. :O||:


----------



## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Jacksonman said:


> I leave for one day and you guys get all crazy.
> 
> My two cents. Both Nortah and I are in our twenties so we didn't see Scofield and Strawberry in the good old days when the lakes averaged 24 inch 5 lb fish. My gut tells me that these claims are like the old timers who walked up hill both ways to school in 10 ft of snow. Fishermen are, well, fishermen, and fishermen exagerate, especially the old timers.
> 
> ...


So do you kill the chubs or put them back?


----------



## Jacksonman (Jan 16, 2008)

Dodger said:


> So do you kill the chubs or put them back?


That is a good question. The ironic thing is with all my trips to the berry and Scofield over the last 5 years, I have only caught one chub and that was from Strawberry about 3-4 years ago.

I honestly would like to catch a few to keep as bait. With all these reports of chubs being caught, I would probably kill all the chubs I caught from Scofield. I would probably let them go at the berry. In a few years, if the reports of chubs go down, I would probably let them go. Tube Dude lets them go at Starvation for this reason.

And the question about planting chubs, I wish they would at FG. It would give the burbot something else besides kokes to eat and it would give the browns something to munch. i think putting in some good structure with planting some chubs in that structure would be awesome for FG.

But I also wonder if it would be better to never have chub but to have red sides or flat heads instead. That is what the bows munched on at yuba. Regardless, I don't mind the chubs as long as a slot is put in place early enough and enforce it. Both Nortah and I are fans of slot regs and would actually like to see it increased to 24". But if you are a put and take guy, I understand why you wouldn't like them.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Jacksonman said:


> And the question about planting chubs, I wish they would at FG. It would give the burbot something else besides kokes to eat and it would give the browns something to munch. i think putting in some good structure with planting some chubs in that structure would be awesome for FG.


The though of stocking baitfish into Utah lakes and reservoirs has been brought up many times... I have read numerous fishermen on this site and others ask why the DWR doesn't stock more baitfish to supplement what is or is not already present to help allow game fish to grow.

Here are some reasons why: 
1) baitfish may compete with gamefish--especially juvenile gamefish--for the same food source and eventually outcompete the very fish they are supposed to help. 
2) high reproductive rates of many baitfishes force the biomass of many fisheries to transition from predominantly game fish to predominantly baitfish. Fisheries where the biomass is comprised mostly of baitfish or nongame fish are generally not very appealing to fishermen. 
3) ESA. Many of our streams or inlets to reservoirs and their associated drainages have endangered species issues that do not allow the DWR to stock some species of fish for fear that they will outcompete endangered species. 
4) By adding a new species to a reservoir, many times growth rates of other fish actually decline and average sizes of game fish decline because of competition for food. In such cases, some very large fish are found because they are able to get through a bottleneck that is created and become entirely dependent on prey species for food, but most fish remain small. Joes Valley Reservoir is a prime example of this...some very large splake exist, but most trout are small and relatively skinny and unhealthy. The reservoir actually gets very little fishing pressure compared to when it did not have high numbers of chubs. 
5) Disease certification. Because of the rampant spreading of diseases like VHS and whirling disease, all fish stocked must first be certified as disease free. This becomes very problematic for many species of fish...especially those fish that are not native to Utah. 
6) For every pound of chubs/forage fish the DWR produces at their hatcheries, we lose a pound of game fish. Do we honestly want the DWR to stock bait fish over game fish? And, for every pound of bait fish stocked, we lose a pound of game fish biomass in the fishery. Do we want our fish biomass in reservoirs comprised of game fish or non game fish?

The link below has some good information on the reasons shad are not stocked in more reservoirs/lakes to supplement prey species. The same concepts would apply to other minnows/chubs/shiners... 
http://fishing.about.com/od/fishfacts/a/shad_2.htm


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Jacksonman said:


> But I also wonder if it would be better to never have chub but to have red sides or flat heads instead. That is what the bows munched on at yuba. Regardless, I don't mind the chubs as long as a slot is put in place early enough and enforce it. Both Nortah and I are fans of slot regs and would actually like to see it increased to 24". But if you are a put and take guy, I understand why you wouldn't like them.


The reason that rainbows grew so quickly and to such large sizes in Yuba immediately after the lake was drained, was because the numbers of carp, suckers, minnows, perch, walleye, pike and other fish was very low. This allowed the rainbows first crack at the food base. The rainbows did NOT grow large munching on minnows...it was only after they grew large that they ever started using the flathead minnows as a forage. And, by that time, the rainbows were already beginning to die of age and disappear.

Trout in Utah reservoirs and lakes grow larger and quicker without forage fish than with them...


----------



## killdeer (Dec 9, 2009)

It is great to have "young bucks" (nor-tah and jacksonman) posting and giving their opinions. Thank to w2u for some facts and figures. I posted "kill the chubs" I might say the same for the idea of baitfish. Forage species (trash fish) might work well with bass and some of the larger predators. I'm not convinced it is good in Utah. Tiger Muskie have been in Johnson for quite a long time and there are starting to be a very FEW big fish. Chubs have basically destroyed the trout fishery. I hope the Muskies help in Joes Valley but is wait and see. 
I have only been fishing Utah for a little over 55 years (I remember waiting for the opening to take my one kids as my Dad did to take me). Fishing in Utah is pretty good right now, but it has always (at least in some lakes and streams) been boom and bust. Without stocking and a management plan sports fishing would not last long (thanks to the DWR for doing something). You might image the times I have seen and experienced the treatment of fisheries for "rough fish". I'm sure I (we) will see it again in select waters, even some that seem sacred. KILL THE CHUBS, save a trout.


----------



## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

WOW. I feel like I just used up alot of time I could have been fishing trying to read through all the BS. More chubs+biger fish? FALSE. lots of data to prove it. Chubs destroy fisheries.
I'm not going to waste alot of time explaing biologoy.

I will tell you this. I fish a large resovoir out side of Utah. The state this is in got it right the first time based on some really good studies done in many other water. Many of those studies took place in Utah and other states. There were a few problems they came across in other waters that strugled to produce good size fish in lakes that looked like they could produce the type of food needed to suport a good trout popoulation and those were CHUBS and the other was perch. To combat the problem they started with a clean slate. Plated rainbows and BASS.
The bass feed hevealy on the chubs. Most fish are over 15 inches. Most fish are bigger then 2 lbs. The CO's out there are checking people almost every day. This has been going on for over 15 years. about 5 years ago they had a perch scare. They were checking almost all day long for weeks to make sure it was just a rumor. I have never seen trout fishing as good as this place.

Chubs=less food for trout= fewer and smaller trout.

Her is our chub catch from friday at the field ant that is only about half


----------



## Jacksonman (Jan 16, 2008)

About Yuba, obviously the young bows didn't eat bait fish initially, but i believe they grew so big so fast because they gorged on the bait fish as soon as they could. Are you stating that the bows would not have grown that fast without all the flathead minnows in there?

About FG, everything I have read stated that the rbows grew so big because there were lots of chubs. The chubs survived because of structure that has since dissappeared. Now the big browsn have dissappeared. I don't think the early grownth rates of fish at the gorge can be attributed solely to zooplankton and crawfish. The big fish were eating baitfish and the baitfish have disappeared. 

Overall, my opinion remains that every lake and situation is unique. I believe that some lakes will really profit from having some chubs in them and others will not. The key is management. I wouldn't change a thing at Strawberry except for increasing the slot and getting rid of treble hook power bait fishing. I also like what has been done at Scofield lately and think the problem that we are now having can be directly attributed to the 8 fish limit no slot regs in place over several years (mismanagement). Hopefully Scofield hasn't reached the tipping point where the chubs can't be controlled. But with the amount of 20"+ cutts and tigers that are and will be in Scofield over the next 2 years, I am not too worried. Sure, some big chubs will survive, but the little ones will get gorged on, and the big ones will keep producing little ones for food. But for right now, until we know hoe bad the chub problem is, I will probably kill every chub that I catch. 

But as the success story that was shared about the out of state lake, the key is management over the first few years the potential problem arises. Joes Valley may be too late to save; yuba too. But I am hopeful for Scofield.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Jacksonman said:


> About Yuba, obviously the young bows didn't eat bait fish initially, but i believe they grew so big so fast because they gorged on the bait fish as soon as they could. *Are you stating that the bows would not have grown that fast without all the flathead minnows in there?*


I think just the opposite. The rainbows would have faired much better without the chubs. The rainbows weren't necessarily gorging themselves on baitfish -- just like many reservoirs that get a rotenone treatment, the rainbows had the lake much to themselves for that first while at Yuba. They flourished until other species of rough fish (including perch) estabished their populations.

Look at Lee's Ferry below Lake Powell on the Colorado River. In the 70's 15lb rainbows were not uncommon. 8-10lb rainbows were very regular. What were they eating to get themselves that large? Certainly not bait fish. More likely, scuds. Zooplankton.

With Flaming Gorge, the rainbows size declined after the chubs disappeared. Is this due to rainbow trout diet? Or, due to lack of forage for predator species like lake trout? Are the lake trout foraging on stocked rainbow trout, and thus limiting the size of the trout? Further, what about the effects of smallmouth bass population on the crayfish? Brown trout could be an exception here, because I think they are more predatorial than rainbow and cutthroat trout. The whole thing is a big chain reaction -- add smallmouth bass and they eliminate the crayfish and chubs, lake trout forced to switch from chubs to rainbow trout and kokanee, burbot show up and throw it all out of whack!

Like you said -- each place is different. But there is ample evidence to suggest that rainbow and cutthroat trout are better off without chubs.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Jacksonman said:


> About Yuba, obviously the young bows didn't eat bait fish initially, but i believe they grew so big so fast because they gorged on the bait fish as soon as they could. Are you stating that the bows would not have grown that fast without all the flathead minnows in there?


I believe that the rainbows grew so big so fast because the flathead minnows were NOT present in high numbers when the rainbows were initially stocked....neither were perch, carp, suckers, pike, or walleye. Basically, the rainbows grew big quickly because they were left alone to feed on the insects available. Once flatheads and other rough fish and perch began appearing in number, the rainbow population died out quickly. True, some of the big rainbows utilized minnows for forage, but that was only after they grew large....and, still then, only some utilized minnows as a food source.

Panguitch Lake, Otter Creek Reservoir, Piute Reservoir, Newcastle Reservoir, Lower Kent's Lake, Meeks and Morrell Lakes on Thousand Lake, Fish Lake, Koosharem, Joe's Valley, Minersville, and many other Utah reservoirs have all seen the exact same results. Trout growth is highest and fish health is better when chubs and/or other bait fish are NOT present. It is false to think that forage fishes benefit Utah reservoirs even if these reservoirs produce big trout that utilize forage fish as a food source.


----------



## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I love the bragging on this thread as well its awesome. Chubs and shiners are bad. I feel I'm a pretty good expert on the boulder and a lot of the lakes on the boulder that are so popular (North side) that now have tigers in them are lakes without trash fish. These lakes grow big fish without trash fish. Stunted brook trout do the same thing as chubs they eat to much and breed to much. Sure, a few trout make it but its never been better on the boulder since the treatments to get rid of shiners, stunted fish and suckers that where illegal brought into these lakes. Nor-tah you've apparently never seen a trout lake full of shiners. Its sickening, Electric Lake used not have as many shiners you used to never see them 25 years ago.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

So how did the state record Brook get so big in Beaver Dam??


----------



## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Shrimp, I teach Milton Taft's grandKids, Fun stories, I know his daughter pretty well. All the big fish producing lakes on the boulder have a great supply of these fresh water shrimp. The lakes I've caught my 5 plus pound brook trout, you can see the shrimp floating and swimming in the water. It is amazing what the shrimp does to a fish.


----------



## handsomefish (Nov 14, 2007)

It amazing how this topic sparks the same debate every time with the same results, people with a distain for chubs go away hateing them more and those who use them for bait see them as bait
Some places such as starvation need them and others don't
People who are catching alot of chubs at scofield are not fishing high enough up on the food chain, I'm not saying there isn't a chub problem at scofield right now but give the tiger trout and the slot limit a chance to work it hasn't been in place long enough 
Big fish eat little fish and by planting sterile fish there would be a gap in the food chain without the chub at scofield


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> So how did the state record Brook get so big in Beaver Dam??





Brookie said:


> Shrimp,


Nortah -- you were kidding with your question, right?

Why do any brook trout on the Boulder get big? It certainly is NOT because of bait fish! Look at the Boulder -- you already know that one reason the brook trout get big is due to occasional winter-kill knocking populations back. When that happens, fresh-water shrimp explode. The brook trout that are left gorge themselves on crustaceans and grow extremely fast. They have very little competition from other fish for this food. It's just like what W2U has been saying this whole thread -- you don't need a prey fish for trout to grow large! Bait fish are competition for trout, not food.

Regarding Beaver Dam -- why don't they get that big any more? Well, the lake changed. The dam was repaired, which raised the lake level a few feet which provided more (better) spawning area for the brook trout which resulted in improved recruitment and eventual stunting of brook trout.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

handsomefish said:


> Big fish eat little fish and by planting sterile fish there would be a gap in the food chain without the chub at scofield


No. There wouldn't be a gap without the chubs. The "gap" would quickly be filled by those invertebrates that the chubs currently eat. The trout would then be able to utilize that "new" food source and thrive.

chubs are competition for trout.

If you were talking strictly lake trout, maybe I'd agree a little bit.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Yes I know Brooks get big when feeding on fresh water shrimp. All fish do... I wish they would supplement stock shrimp in all waters in utah. I had heard that when BD was first stocked there was a population of redsides in there and thats what the Brooks ate in the beginning. I think I read it somewhere and will look for that. I know there are redsides on the mountain.
http://www.redrockadventure.com/fishing ... atment.htm


----------



## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Nor-tah, Red shiners were illegally introduced, by fisherman using live minnows in blue lake according to your article Not BD,


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Yeah, I couldnt find the article and lost interest. I'll try to find it some other time.


----------



## handsomefish (Nov 14, 2007)

PBH said:


> handsomefish said:
> 
> 
> > Big fish eat little fish and by planting sterile fish there would be a gap in the food chain without the chub at scofield
> ...


Chubs are competition for trout up to a certian size, most trout and most fish for that matter will start eating smaller fish as they get bigger
Most trout will not reach there potential if they do not switch over to eating minnows with the exeception of the rainbow
And thats one of the reasons scofield has a chub problem is because rainbows alone can not control the chub population

I've spent alot of time chaseing big brown trout giving me a meat eating mentality and the biggest fish of every speices that I've caught has been on a minnow or something imitating a minnow. Even a chub on a spinner

The food chain is longer than just small fish eating bugs


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

would you guys that kill these chubs please give them to me?
I could care less about chubs or rainbows but I would like to use the chubs
ill take all you can give me!
size dosent matter!


----------



## HONER80080 (Nov 18, 2009)

I fished at Scofield on the last week of September and the DNR was up there doing their gil net survey. I spoke to them as they were heading out and they told me that the prior survey had showed something like 10 chub to every trout which is why they implimented the slot limit. We fished for several hours (not catching a single chub) and then headed in. When we were at the cleaning station the DNR boys were just wrapping up. I asked them how this survey had gone, they told me about 1 chub to 1 trout, and they felt like the slot limit had a big part in that. They said the slot limit would stay in place for the next 3 years and then they would re-evaluate. They did show me some of the big fish from the survey. They had 4 Rainbows over 25 inches and 1 tiger right at 25 inches. Needless to say that I with my three 15 inch rainbows was jealous of their monsters.


----------

