# Home renovation question



## MuleDeer123 (Dec 20, 2021)

I am trying to finish some areas in my basement. I want to make sure I do what’s best as far as a vapor/moisture barrier when I’m framing. So far I have applied a coating of Drylok latex concrete sealer as a first step. Before putting up framing I was planning on putting up 2” R-Tech foam board with foil fronting as my moisture barrier, but I am wondering would it be better to use a 6 mil Polyethylene barrier on front/back instead of the foam board? I’m just curious what the better method is to avoid moisture/vapor issues.


----------



## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)




----------



## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Those are pics, not great ones of plastic moisture barrier. The black dots are mold forming, and you can see the water droplets in the 2nd and 3rd. That house is .5 years old.

Im a drywaller. I'm not a fan of plastic moisture barrier. They create mold. They just create it behind the barrier. IMO air movement is the only way to go after sealing off your foundation walls


----------



## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Condensation forms on the warm side of the barrier, so when the outside temperature is cooler than the inside temperatures as it is in most of Utah most of the year the moisture is going to be trapped on the inside of the house where mold can occur. In the summertime when the opposite is true humidity in Utah's dry climate is most often in the single digits, so there's little chance of condensation forming. This is why I'm not a big fan of current moisture barrier building codes, they may be a good idea is a warm moist climate but here in Utah? 

The only way to alleviate this problem is, as you mentioned, lots of air movement, meaning an upgraded HVAC system. I think we're going to see in the future a building code requirement that each room have its own cold air return trying to remedy the negative side effects created by the current code requirements.

I honestly believe that building codes are devised more for the benefit of industry suppliers than they are for the consumer. Upgraded insulation requirements, new wave curtain wall construction, all add up to a more expansive HVAC system and greater costs. In the end we're spending lots more money to make new construction the equivalent to grandma's old drafty frame house!


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Is there a history of moisture build up in your area?


----------



## MuleDeer123 (Dec 20, 2021)

ridgetop said:


> Is there a history of moisture build up in your area?


Not necessarily. You’re just supposed to have a moisture barrier of some sort.

Thanks for the input everyone.


hossblur said:


> Those are pics, not great ones of plastic moisture barrier. The black dots are mold forming, and you can see the water droplets in the 2nd and 3rd. That house is .5 years old.
> 
> Im a drywaller. I'm not a fan of plastic moisture barrier. They create mold. They just create it behind the barrier. IMO air movement is the only way to go after sealing off your foundation walls


Would you recommend the foam board? Or does it have a similar result if it has a thermal barrier front?




Kevin D said:


> Condensation forms on the warm side of the barrier, so when the outside temperature is cooler than the inside temperatures as it is in most of Utah most of the year the moisture is going to be trapped on the inside of the house where mold can occur. In the summertime when the opposite is true humidity in Utah's dry climate is most often in the single digits, so there's little chance of condensation forming. This is why I'm not a big fan of current moisture barrier building codes, they may be a good idea is a warm moist climate but here in Utah?
> 
> The only way to alleviate this problem is, as you mentioned, lots of air movement, meaning an upgraded HVAC system. I think we're going to see in the future a building code requirement that each room have its own cold air return trying to remedy the negative side effects created by the current code requirements.
> 
> I honestly believe that building codes are devised more for the benefit of industry suppliers than they are for the consumer. Upgraded insulation requirements, new wave curtain wall construction, all add up to a more expansive HVAC system and greater costs. In the end we're spending lots more money to make new construction the equivalent to grandma's old drafty frame house!


What are your thoughts on the foam board as a barrier instead of using the plastic?

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I've framed out basements before and have always set the exterior wall studs 1/2" from the concrete foundation, then used the plastic sheeting. This allows for air to move between the concrete and the wood.


----------



## BearLakeFishGuy (Apr 15, 2013)

I finished my unfinished basement myself. I had the city code inspector show up on Day 1 to tell me what is required and what is recommended. I blanketed the concrete walls with 3" or 4" fiberglassbacked blankets. This is what the code is AND what is recommended by builders. The backing was a strong paper material that was not moisture proof (plastic or foam can trap moisture which leads to mold). Then I framed the basement with 2x4 walls and did NOT crush the insulation, so my wall frames were 3.5" off the concrete. This allows for the insulation to do its job and also for air circulation BEHIND the wall frame/dry wall. My basement is incredibly warm in the winter with this combo. My air ducts come in from the ceiling. The cold air return (32" wide) is in the basement hall (about the center of basement). I've had ZERO problems with moisture or mold.


----------



## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I also finished my basement.

Quick question - what is a city code inspector?


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> I also finished my basement.
> 
> Quick question - what is a city code inspector?


The idiot that makes you tear everything apart just about the time your finishing the job because the neighbor turned you in.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

My neighbor built an entire house around his crappy house... called it an "renovation". Seriously... he had footings around the entire perimeter. He tore the roof off the old house, walled in the new outside, then demo'd the old house when no-one could see, then finished the first floor. Then he built the 2nd floor and finished that off. Its easily 2.5 times the square footage of the original home.

LOL.

-DallanC


----------



## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> My neighbor built an entire house around his crappy house... called it an "renovation". Seriously... he had footings around the entire perimeter. He tore the roof off the old house, walled in the new outside, then demo'd the old house when no-one could see, then finished the first floor. Then he built the 2nd floor and finished that off. Its easily 2.5 times the square footage of the original home.
> 
> LOL.
> 
> -DallanC


A house by my old neighborhood that was around 800sqft did this. You only have to keep 1 existing wall or something silly to get a "renovation loan".


----------



## Victor Machado (8 mo ago)

The main and starting step in renovation is basement renovation if you can mistakenly choose wrong General Contractors and service provider they ruin your house first you want to find a good General Contractor near you then start working on the next step which is estimate of the house after that you can start working on your house


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Wow... word salad.

-DallanC


----------



## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Victor Machado said:


> The main and starting step in renovation is basement renovation if you can mistakenly choose wrong General Contractors and service provider they ruin your house first you want to find a good General Contractor near you then start working on the next step which is estimate of the house after that you can start working on your house


Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.


When drunk?

-DallanC


----------



## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> When drunk?
> 
> -DallanC


Even then, I think I could make more sense 🤣


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I might have to have a six pack and then try to read it again.


----------



## Ronaldrolin (2 mo ago)

None of the building materials helped me solve the basement's humidity problem. In this case, it is necessary to install natural or forced ventilation. However, in Utah, the problem with humidity in the basement is also seasonal. In such a situation, the optimal solution is to install a dehumidifier. I was doing repairs last year and resorted to the help of concrete contractors vancouver wa. Installing a dehumidifier was the best solution because I could adjust the operation depending on the temperature and get rid of moisture. I was lucky that the problem with moisture was only in the basement.


----------

