# LE Elk Hunt 2016



## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I know that the application period isn't for some time, but I would like to get some advice on my current situation. 

With the proposed changes to the scopes allowed on muzzleloaders, I have a feeling that the tag I was basically guaranteed next year with not be a guarantee. With that being said, I could easily draw the late rifle hunt for this same unit. I understand that comparing the muzzleloader hunt to the late rifle hunt is hard, since the overall experience is completely different.

Does anyone have any feedback on their experience with the late elk hunt?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Magnified scopes on muzzle loaders has been allowed on LE hunts for 2 years now.

Later muzzy hunt next year too...IMO , LE muzzy elk tags will be easy'r to draw 2016.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

If you want a "rut" experience, stay with LE muzzy. There's really nothing quite like it. If the rut doesn't move you one way or the other, late rifle could produce as well.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> Magnified scopes on muzzle loaders has been allowed on LE hunts for 2 years now.
> 
> Later muzzy hunt next year too...IMO , LE muzzy elk tags will be easy'r to draw 2016.


Can you clarify? From what I can tell of the rules, you can use a magnifying scope on an any weapon hunt, but not on a designated muzzy season. Even if it is LE.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

My bad^^^^^^^^^^

Is was only adopted to allow magnifying scopes on muzzys for anyweapon
hunts 2 years ago.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks for the input so far. I should have mentioned that next year will be my last year applying as a resident. I'd really like to draw the tag next year and not have to go into the nonresident pool.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I am sure it will vary from unit to unit, but like has been said, they would probably still be in rut on the Muzzy. One problem or I should say issue, is the weather on the late hunt could change the hunt dynamics a lot. Such as a hard winter compared to a mild winter. The amount of snow could change where the elk may be and the access to the area.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

CPAjeff said:


> Thanks for the input so far. I should have mentioned that next year will be my last year applying as a resident. I'd really like to draw the tag next year and not have to go into the nonresident pool.


 Take a look at the draw odds from last year and see where you sit points- wise. If you don't want to put in as a non-resident, I guess that limits you to what you can likely draw.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

MWScott72 said:


> Take a look at the draw odds from last year and see where you sit points- wise. If you don't want to put in as a non-resident, I guess that limits you to what you can likely draw.


Thanks for the advice. I have done a 5 year average on points it has taken to draw this unit based off the draw odds for both muzzleloader and late rifle. I have the late rifle tag guaranteed by a couple points, as well as the muzzleloader - unless the new proposal is passed on magnified scopes, then I am unsure what the point distribution will look like. The resident pool looks awesome, the nonresident pool - not so much!


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

Use this spreadsheet that a fellow forum member derekp1999 created. The 5 year average is a good start, but point creep changes every year. This can tell you your odds for any hunt next year.

http://utahbiggameodds.blogspot.com/


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

nocturnalenemy said:


> Use this spreadsheet that a fellow forum member derekp1999 created. The 5 year average is a good start, but point creep changes every year. This can tell you your odds for any hunt next year.
> 
> http://utahbiggameodds.blogspot.com/


That works until a few hunters with max points or more points than you have put in for the same unit that you are putting in for, but then that happens on any type of spreadsheet or analysis that is out there.

I can't believe that someone hasn't given you the link to this info.

http://www.biggamedrawodds.com/big.game.draw.odds.utah.html


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

5-year average isn't going to do you any good. Last year will be the best indication, although not a perfect indication. 

I know you probably don't want to say which unit, but in reality, if you're asking advice on muzzy vs late rifle for the same unit, the specific unit is kind of important information. I would not say that the muzzy hunt is a better hunt for every unit, especially considering the later hunt dates for 2016. There are units where the late hunt is generally better. 

There is a chance for some higher point holders to move to muzzy hunts if the magnification proposal passes, but I don't think you'll see a mass exodus from the rifle pools. 

Two questions: How many points do you have? What unit are we talking about here? If you don't want to mention unit, at least it helps to know how many points you have in giving a little bit of advice.

*Edit- biggamedrawodds.com doesn't hold a candle to derekp1999's spreadsheet, IMO. That is the very best thing out there for how much refining you can do on it.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> *Edit- biggamedrawodds.com doesn't hold a candle to derekp1999's spreadsheet, IMO. That is the very best thing out there for how much refining you can do on it.


Yup. biggamedrawodds doesn't even have 2015 info. Nor is it sortable, nor can you see multiple units/weapons/seasons at once.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks for the replies! As a point of clarification, the five year average was my attempt to see the point creep, which, has been very close to the actual point creep. I use stats on a daily basis and am confident with the parameters established in my population. I have 11 points and don't want to disclose the unit since it's kind of a sleeper unit.;-)

The main objectice of the op was a solicitation of fellow UWN member's experiences with the late hunt. I live in a location that allows me to be out on the mountain a lot during the rut, and I'd love to have a tag in my hand while the rut is going on. However, I'd rather do a late hunt where I am guaranteed a tag instead of not hunting.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Thing is , 2016 LE elk draw odds are going to change big time.

There were over 9,000 hunters that applied for Wasatch elk in 2015,
Now they have to look at different units since there's no elk left on the Wasatch............;-)


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

goofy elk said:


> Thing is , 2016 LE elk draw odds are going to change big time.
> 
> There were over 9,000 hunters that applied for Wasatch elk in 2015,
> Now they have to look at different units since there's no elk left on the Wasatch............;-)


Ha ha I know! My debacle is whether to go for the tag that is "more" of a guarantee verses a tag that is "less" of a guarantee. I am really interested to see if people post stories of their late season hunts on here.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

goofy elk said:


> Thing is , 2016 LE elk draw odds are going to change big time.
> 
> There were over 9,000 hunters that applied for Wasatch elk in 2015,
> Now they have to look at different units since there's no elk left on the Wasatch............;-)


Man Goofy I hope you are right. I would LOVE to have a Wasatch tag in my pocket after what I saw this year. I guess that a nice mature 330"+ bull with a real chance at a 350"+ just doesn't satisfy folks anymore. ------SS


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm hunting all this week on the Crab creek CWMU,
Last two morning in a row I've glassed lone bulls so high up on Loafer it's crazy!


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## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

It'd depend on the unit you are applying for. My wife had the late la Sal elk tag 4 years ago. I went on the early rifle with my uncles and the archery with my brother. I have the same tag this year if that says anything to my opinion of the late hunt. I was one to two years out for the muzzy tag. It was just too hard to pass up a guaranteed tag. I saw way!!!!! More elk on the late hunt than the other two hunts combined. Found a heard that made hardware look cheesy. I'll let you all know how it goes/went in a week or so.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

CPAjeff said:


> Thanks for the replies! As a point of clarification, the five year average was my attempt to see the point creep, which, has been very close to the actual point creep. I use stats on a daily basis and am confident with the parameters established in my population. I have 11 points and don't want to disclose the unit since it's kind of a sleeper unit.;-)


Hate to break it to you, it's limited entry. There is no such thing as a 'sleeper' unit. But can understand why you wouldn't want to promote the tag you are hoping to draw.



CPAjeff said:


> The main objectice of the op was a solicitation of fellow UWN member's experiences with the late hunt. I live in a location that allows me to be out on the mountain a lot during the rut, and I'd love to have a tag in my hand while the rut is going on. However, I'd rather do a late hunt where I am guaranteed a tag instead of not hunting.


Late hunt *CAN* be fantastic. Some units are more weather-dependent than others. Like I said before...the answer to your question depends on the unit. There is enough variation between them that a general answer probably doesn't do you much good. Why does your location allow you to be out on the mountain during the rut but not on the late hunt? It would seem that location shouldn't impact how much you are on mountain at different times of the year.

If you are becoming a non-resident after 2016, then I'd consider drawing the tag you can now on that factor alone. Non-resident elk odds SUCK!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> If you are becoming a non-resident after 2016, then I'd consider drawing the tag you can now on that factor alone. Non-resident elk odds SUCK!


Plus a extra $500 for just 1 season or $1000 for the premium hunt tag.

But then you will be able to put in for all of the OIL tags and each of the LE animals. You'll never draw but at least you can say that you can put in for all of them.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Like others have said, you're at the mercy of the weather with the late hunt. I've known two people who hunted the late book cliffs elk season. 

The weather cooperated perfectly for the first, and he found a good 6x6, which he missed. He ended up tagging a 4x5 a few days later. He found them the second day, and was into them every day after that.. 

It was an unseasonably warm and dry year for the second, and it took a couple days of looking to find the elk. He passed on a 4x4 and ended up eating tag soup due to the fact that he only had 3 1/2 days to hunt due to work and poor planning (IMO). An incoming storm also scared us out a day early (those roads suck after rain, btw).

I've also heard of late hunters there getting snowed out of plan A and having to scramble for a plan B. You just never know.

If I've learned anything from these hunts, it's that you should make sure you'll have lots of time to hunt and take full advantage of your opportunities, since elk may be hard to find. It's kind of dumb to waste a bunch of points on a hunt you can't put a good effort into.

That probably doesn't help at all, but like others have said, there are too many variables to give a great answer, especially without knowing the unit.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I would love to be able to draw a late season Book Cliff tag. Even if it snowed or rained I know right where I would head. A lot of the elk stay up high all year long and that is one mistake a lot of hunters make is that they don't get up on the Divide Road to find them.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I appreciate all the feedback and opinions! Maybe I'll draw the Sportsmans tag or an expo tag and then I won't have to worry about this decision!:grin:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Sorry, my wife already called dibs on the sportsman's elk tag


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

One quick thought before I head out hunting today..,

Next years late LE elk dates are Nov 12 thru the 20th......

The northern units in the state could have problems with the FS locking gates!

I would completely stay away from those units...:!:...


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> One quick thought before I head out hunting today..,
> 
> Next years late LE elk dates are Nov 12 thru the 20th......
> 
> ...


Yup, the Cache unit is one of those. After Nov. 15 the gates close and access to much of the unit is extremely limited.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

CPAjeff said:


> Ha ha I know! My debacle is whether to go for the tag that is "more" of a guarantee verses a tag that is "less" of a guarantee. I am really interested to see if people post stories of their late season hunts on here.


 In your situation I would take the option that is more of a guarantee because once you move to the non-res pool all bets are off.

I haven't had the late tag personally, but I have had family members that have. For the late hunt the elk are generally not even close to where they were during the rut. If you know the area well enough to know where the elk will be I think you would have no problem finding a good bull, and in many cases I think those bulls that hide so well during the regular LE rifle hunt are more accessible this time of year.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I saw more, and bigger elk in the WW this year than at any time in my life. And I've lived here the entire time. Jawdropping bulls we just watched wander past. One bull was a true bull of a lifetime. Shoulda at least had a control tag... lol.


-DallanC


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