# Asking for a raise. Advice needed!



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I asked for a raise about a month ago and was turned down.
I did ask for a sizable raise, expecting a possible counter offer, which didn't happen.
When should I make my next move?
I really don't want to leave the company but need to somehow let them know that I'm not happy and hopefully come to some compromise.
If anyone would be willing to help and discuss some options, let me know through a PM.
Thanks


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Go out and interview and find a higher paying offer and be willing to walk if they don't match your new offer. If they like you, leaving is the best negotiating tool you have.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Not knowing what you do, or who you do it for, it is a bit more complicated than that from a business owner's position. I've been on both sides of things. And really, to the business owner, it comes down to how much money they are making from you working there. And most employees don't fully understand the multiplier impact of an employee. In my world, consulting, it takes about $3 of revenue to pay an employee $1, due to overhead, marketing, benefits, taxes, etc.. I've worked for half a dozen consulting firms and that has been a very typical number. So for me to give you, say a $1,000 month raise, or $12,000/year, you need to generate an additional $36,000/year in income. So whether you are in consulting, construction, retail, manufacturing, or whatever private industry, you need to show that you are generating more revenue for them, and based on that, you would like a raise. And hopefully, in your request, you went in with a strong business case of why that raise will increase their profit. Because really, if revenue stays the same, the raise you are asking for is money out of the business owner's pocket, so you are asking him to take a cut, in order to give you a raise. But if you can demonstrate that the raise can be paid for with more work, more revenue, or selling more widgets, then you have a much stronger case. And then as Toasty said, if you have interviewed with another company, and have an offer in hand, then you have the best negotiating tool possible. Because then you can pretty much say "I'd really like to work here, but I have this offer from another firm. I need the extra money for my family, and you have been a good employer, so I'd like to give you the chance to match or beat this other offer before I accept it. The flip side to that approach is that at that point, you better be willing to walk, because they will from that point forward question your loyalty. It's quite the double edged sword. 

If you work in government, or a government contractor or utility company or something, then really their hands are tied pretty tight for raises. They can only give a certain %, and then only if certain criteria are met, i.e., training, years of service, supervise so many people, etc... It is very institutionalized. And really, the bigger the company, the more institutionalized that kind of thing is. 

Hopefully this is helpful. I thought of just sending a PM, but thought others may benefit from this discussion. However, if you'd like to PM me with specifics, I'd be glad to help out with more than general advise. 

Gary


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

ridgetop said:


> I asked for a raise about a month ago and was turned down.
> I did ask for a sizable raise, expecting a possible counter offer, which didn't happen.
> When should I make my next move?
> I really don't want to leave the company but need to somehow let them know that I'm not happy and hopefully come to some compromise.
> ...


What industries are you in?
What value do you bring to your. Current company. 
As a Buisness owner. I am sorry to say to you. What have YOU done to positively effect my company. But in reality that's what it takes. If you just want a raise because you have been there for some time that's not going to cut it now days. 
If you really want a bargaining chip with your employer then you need to show that you bring some worth to the table. 
And they can decide the value of that worth.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I understand the dilemma however you need to ask for what is reasonable. Show what value you bring but also show what other companies are paying for someone of your particular skill and level. There are times when it comes to having to cut ties and find another job. I had a job once and they refused to give me a raise despite me being the top producer in the company. The next closest rep was producing less than 1/2 of what I was and was being paid almost 50% more than me. After showing my worth etc the president still refused so I found another job and quit. Had been there 9 years. I told him when I quit he was going to have to hire 2 people to do my job and it would have been much cheaper to give me the raise. He laughed and said anyone could do my job. A year later I checked back with a buddy still working there and they ended up having to hire 3 people to do the work I was doing. Revenge was indeed sweet.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

One thing that has not been touched on is, most but not all jobs have a wage range. In your given field where are you? If you are at the top of your range you may need to take the next step. That might be more schooling or adding to your versatility (do more than one kind of job). You need to look at yourself and honestly evaluate the job you do.

Now on the subject of loyalty. Loyalty is a two way street. If you are a hard worker and you have a good relationship with your employer (and you are not at the top of your wage bracket), you should never have to ask for a raise. 

So in my mind (and I know it is not always clear cut to outside people), you either have an employer that does not really care or you need some self evaluation.

Now I know there is a lot more in deciding what you and your family require. 

But one thing that I have learned and that it does no harm in looking at what is available in your field. Sometimes it helps with the self evaluation.

Good luck. (I hate changing jobs).


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Hoopermat said:


> What industries are you in?
> What value do you bring to your. Current company.
> As a Buisness owner. I am sorry to say to you. What have YOU done to positively effect my company. But in reality that's what it takes. If you just want a raise because you have been there for some time that's not going to cut it now days.
> If you really want a bargaining chip with your employer then you need to show that you bring some worth to the table.
> And they can decide the value of that worth.


Don't be sorry.
I appreciate your comments.
Here's a little more info.
I manage a mid-sized electrical company. 
I'm a master electrician and oversee our residential work, which currently consists of 15 electricians.
Before the recession, I had 45 guys to schedule on a daily basis but we have lost our warehouse guy since then and now I am doing his job too.
I've been with the company since 1994.
So I think I've been a value to the company.
From 2006-2010 I was on salary but that didn't work out.
Our owner felt I needed to be working more hours per week to get his moneys worth, which caused a lot of friction between us.
In 2010, he put me back on hour rate at about a 15% reduction.
That first year was rough but I managed and ended up working more overtime to make up for the lost wages. 
I have never worked overtime to make more money but when the work needs to get done, then I'm always there to make sure it gets done, which I have told him several different times.
I have felt like I've been taken care of over the years and I did receive a very nice bonus at the end of 2015.
Which I told him I was very grateful for but maybe he's frustrated that I would ask for more income after getting the bonus.
I told him when I asked for the raise that I just didn't want to be in a position to be counting on another bonus or lots of overtime to get me by.
He told me that he had over estimated his funds last fall and we are not doing as well as he had thought and needed time to see how things play out this next quarter.
Which I took as he's regretting the bonus he gave me.
I was fine with that but then I just found out that he has given one of our other electricians a raise in just the last couple weeks.
That news did hurt a little.
At this point, should I wait until later this year or early next year and then present a list of facts showing my value to the company and why I deserve a raise?
Maybe he'll still change his mind.
Any other information, I'll discuss through a PM.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Master Electrician and good at what you do, I would put some feelers out. Industrial side is down, but I would look around. I know it was hard some years ago to find a good electrician. 

You taking a cut would be a flag to me to be evaluating or looking.

Again it does not not hurt to look.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Given those facts I wouldn't even bother with it, I'd be looking for a new job where I will be compensated for my efforts and loyalty. That is pretty much what happened to me at my job I described. They gave me a "raise" which turned out to be a pay cut but actually gave a raise to the other guys. I told the president to pay me what I was worth or I'd leave in 6 months, he laughed in my face and said "you'll never leave". I went home that night and started firing off resumes and found a new job within 90 days and went back to him and said "I quit, goodbye". He called me almost every day for a month begging me to come back and each time I reminded him that he had cut my pay and if he wanted me back I was going to have to be the highest paid person in my position. He never did offer what I needed to come back and it cost him dearly.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> Master Electrician and good at what you do, I would put some feelers out. Industrial side is down, but I would look around. I know it was hard some years ago to find a good electrician.
> 
> You taking a cut would be a flag to me to be evaluating or looking.
> 
> Again it does not not hurt to look.


Ya, it probably wouldn't hurt to look around. 
I have a lot of people ask me why I just don't start my own company and my answer is that I'm very comfortable where I'm at.
But I think my boss has started to realize that too. lol
Maybe it's time to show that I just may not be around forever.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Starting your own business sounds great until you do it. 

If you do start one you can almost forget about hunting seasons and any time off until you get established which can take a while to do. 

I have a few relatives that are Master Electricians and they haven't had too much problem finding work through the IBEW and while I don't know just what their wages are they are not hurting.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

What Critter said. Starting your own Business is not for the faint of heart. You will sacrifice. 

Personally I would not say another word to anybody at work. I would not bring the subject up again with my current employer. You will either decide you can handle where you are at (more pluses then minuses). Then next conversation on this subject with the employer should only be to turn in your notice. 

In a nutshell it is nothing more than business decision for you and your family. Treat it as such.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I had my own meat business for 3 years, the worst 3 years of my life. No time off, no one to call if I was sick, And if you hire people to help well thats when the fun really starts. I'd look around Ridge and see whats out there. Sounds to me like your kind of being taken for granted. I know from experience that being the best at what you do does not always equate into money.


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## tliefting (Jun 21, 2015)

I'm a union electrician. I would highly recommend it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I have IBEW electricians, telecommunications techs, and linemen who work for me. They all seem to be happy with the conditions and compensation. 

The Union has its pluses and minuses but there is value in having someone with a little power negotiating for you, I can promise you that from first-hand experience.

Over the last few years, we have seen an influx of electricians who had their own business, or worked for a smaller outfits coming over to work for us. 

As you alluded to, sometimes the comfort factor trumps the potential to make a few more bucks.

Whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck.------SS


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Back to the OP. 
I simply asked for advice on when or if I should counter offer my original bid for a raise.
I didn't say anything about wanting to leave or leaving was even an option.
I know I'm at the top of anyone's pay scale, when all benefits are included.
So it would be hard to find another position to equal what I currently have.
So I ask again, should I just let it go and wait another year or come up with a list of reasons why I feel the company could afford giving me some sort of raise, even if it's no more than a couple hundred dollars a month and make another offer this year?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Also, thanks to those that have PM'd me.
I will get back with each of you when I have more time.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

I think I would let it be and go about your business. My guess is that the owner heard you loud and clear. And even though the answer now was a no I bet he has been given your request alot of thought. You may end surprised later this year. If not, reapproach it next year with more cards in your hand.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

If you are treated well, like your job, and make top scale I would let it go for now. No sense in risking creating tension. I bet your boss will not forget or disregard your request.-----SS


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

If you have your master electrical license then walk. 
You should be able to almost name your price any ware in the valley. 
The people that are on the top of any field shouldn't feel taken advantage of. Because not every one has a master license. 
It also sounds like you are unhappy there and nothing is worse going to work at a place you are unhappy at.
For me if a get a good guy that is a master in my field come apply for a job. I make every effort to get him. And keep him.


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## oneezreiter (Mar 28, 2016)

ridgetop said:


> Back to the OP.
> I simply asked for advice on when or if I should counter offer my original bid for a raise.
> I didn't say anything about wanting to leave or leaving was even an option.
> I know I'm at the top of anyone's pay scale, when all benefits are included.
> ...


If you don't want to leave or you are not in a position to leave then I would recommend that you don't ask again. Keep doing what you have been doing, next year will come soon enough. If you are at the top of your pay scale and good at what you do, and relatively happy, then you are in a good position. The flip side of being at the top of your pay scale means that there are people that can do your job (maybe not as well) for less money, and as it sounds like you run a pretty large crew there are probably people in your organization that could/would step up if the opportunity arose. Please don't take any of this as negative or personally as I do not know you or the full details of you or your organization. This is just an outside perspective from a business guy.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> Back to the OP.
> I simply asked for advice on when or if I should counter offer my original bid for a raise.
> I didn't say anything about wanting to leave or leaving was even an option.
> I know I'm at the top of anyone's pay scale, when all benefits are included.
> ...


If you want to stay with your current employer and get a raise you need to present a strong case for how you are going to bring in more revenue to the company. You said your boss mentioned that the company wasn't performing as well as he thought, which could create a huge opportunity for you to draw out what exactly that means, find a way to fix it, and put a dollar amount to it. Sounds like there may be a lack in tracking labor, material, or equipment costs. How can you fix that and get a raise out of it? Bring up the conversation of "I heard you mention the company didn't perform as well as you were thinking, where do you see the most room for improvement?" and whatever his reply is find a way to fix it and use that as your proposal for a raise. Maybe there is an untapped market you think the business could start dabbling in, put together an offer of how you can lead and manage a team to get into that market or something. I think most employers will give a fair raise if there is a fair reason to give a raise. In order for them to pay you more money, they are going to need to make more money. Find a way you can lead and facilitate that and I think you'll get a better reaction.

If you don't want to stay with your current employer if the response is still no I'd recommend getting in touch with a recruiting company (Prince Perelson out of Salt Lake comes to mind), utilize the LDS Employment Resources (no, you don't have to be a member to use their free services, which by the way are pretty dang impressive), and be prepared to take the jump to something new.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Thanks for all the responses. It's been good to get different viewpoints and perspectives.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

BTW, I'm off today. 
Hence the reason for posting at this current time of day.:mrgreen:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Aww, we won't snitch!


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