# Plumbing: Bell and Gossett circulation pump



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

My circulation pump on my hot-water heat system has gone kaput. I've removed it, house is still heating via convection but its inefficient of course (actually it heats good! Just uses more gas), but its enough to get us by for a few days. Odd this one failed, I am really good at oiling it every 3 months or so during winter months, I even oiled this a month ago. Its like something is catching in the startup... if I spin it manually I can get it to start and run until it powers off, then its stuck again.

Anyone know a Utah retailer that sells Bell and Gossett parts? Specifically I just need a M09181 1/12th hp motor. There's one on Amazon but shipping could take 2 weeks to get here. I'd like to find one in stock locally along the 'Front if possible.

There's a few plumbers / fitters on UWN, figured I'd throw this out here today... no big deal if no-one knows, I'll start calling around in the morning.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You might want to check with BJ's in Orem, they are down behind WinCo on the frontage road. 

When I purchased my home I had a similar pump to yours and when a spring broke I couldn't find a replacement anywhere. I then went to a local plumbing supply store and they pulled out a nice small replacement similar to this one on Amazon. It has been going strong for 30+ years but I may need to replace it before the next heating season. So far all I have had to replace is the O rings on the top and bottom. 



Amazon.com


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks.

I have much <3 for BJs. They will be the first place I'm calling in the morning. 

This will be the 2nd pump I've replaced in our home. Last one was replaced in 1998 soooo 24 years of service. IDK what the average lifespan is for these. I didnt buy that pump though, a HVAC friend picked it up... so I have no idea where he got it.

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

First time I've ever been disappointed in BJs... and several other Utah plumbing supply stores. I called around a bunch this morning. Several after mentioning "I need a Bell and Gossett pump motor", I'd get put on hold before I could even give them the model #. 

B&G is a very old and mature company (founded in 1916) making industrial grade cast iron pumps and gear. They are still among the best, Quality is top notch in this day and age, no plastic... ceramic bearings etc. But, there's alot of options to fit a plethora of needs... even in the pump motor I needed for that 100 series size pump, you can get 115v pumps in both single and dual phase.

Anywho, not willing to leave it to the box store knuckle heads ordering the wrong thing and waiting a week, I found a online pump motor supply store and ordered up my own, paying $30 extra for 3 day delivery. Kindof pricy... but its worth it over Chinese crap specifically in this case. I should be good for a couple more decades now 

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have given up with parts houses and talking to them over the phone. The last time that I did it for my circulation pump was for the O rings that go on the water supply from the pump. The guy at the parts house told me that they no longer just sold the O rings and that I needed to replace the whole pump. So I drove the 30 miles with the idea that a new pump was in order. I walked into the part house and mentioned what I needed. The counter person walked over to a rack that had over a dozen sets of O rings, just what I needed. 

From then on I drag the part to them and then let them figure it out.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Dallan, I wish I had read your thread before you ordered the motor. I was going to suggest checking/calling Danny's Motors on State ST and about 8700 S. I've dealt with him many times on motors, VFD's and so on. Pretty much has anything I've ever needed. He can also rebuild the motor that your replacing. May be worth checking out? In fact, I could take the part# you have in your post and check on it for you today, he's just down the road from me.

Does the motor have a start/run capacitor on it? if it does, it sounds like the start capacitor needs replaced. That's about a $20 item on most E-motors


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> Dallan, I wish I had read your thread before you ordered the motor. I was going to suggest checking/calling Danny's Motors on State ST and about 8700 S. I've dealt with him many times on motors, VFD's and so on. Pretty much has anything I've ever needed. He can also rebuild the motor that your replacing. May be worth checking out? In fact, I could take the part# you have in your post and check on it for you today, he's just down the road from me.
> 
> Does the motor have a start/run capacitor on it? if it does, it sounds like the start capacitor needs replaced. That's about a $20 item on most E-motors


Yea I have the new motor on order. But I might have the current one rebuilt as a spare. Yes, it absolutely sounds like the start cap is bad. The motor spins freely but the startup circuit is the problem.

It is a Bell and Gossett M09181 (research shows 111034 is the new replacement part #)

-DallanC


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> My circulation pump on my hot-water heat system has gone kaput. I've removed it, house is still heating via convection but its inefficient of course (actually it heats good! Just uses more gas), but its enough to get us by for a few days. Odd this one failed, I am really good at oiling it every 3 months or so during winter months, I even oiled this a month ago. Its like something is catching in the startup... if I spin it manually I can get it to start and run until it powers off, then its stuck again.
> 
> Anyone know a Utah retailer that sells Bell and Gossett parts? Specifically I just need a M09181 1/12th hp motor. There's one on Amazon but shipping could take 2 weeks to get here. I'd like to find one in stock locally along the 'Front if possible.
> 
> ...


I bought a place 5 years ago that has hot-water heat. First thing I did was replace the two circ pumps (one Bell & Gossett) with pumps that are self lubed, ceramic shafts, fewer seals, longer lifespan. They are the same bolt-in dimensions as what I had. The pumps are valved in such a manner little air gets in the system during replacement. 

Brand name is Grundfos. Bought em on Amazon. Got a spare too.

Good luck


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> I bought a place 5 years ago that has hot-water heat. First thing I did was replace the two circ pumps (one Bell & Gossett) with pumps that are self lubed, ceramic shafts, fewer seals, longer lifespan. They are the same bolt-in dimensions as what I had. The pumps are valved in such a manner little air gets in the system during replacement.
> 
> Brand name is Grundfos. Bought em on Amazon. Got a spare too.
> 
> Good luck


These "no-lube" circ pumps are really quiet too.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The B&G Pumps make no sound running. Just a click when they start up.

The motor I ordered up was sent "next day shipping" even though I paid for 3 day... so I got it right quick. Took less than 10 min to install it and wire it up. Its running just great. I'm going to get the prior motor looked at by the people Taxidermist mentioned above (in fact I just got home from driving up there but unfortunately they are closed on Saturday). If its fairly cheap to rebuild it, I'll do that and either keep it as a spare or sell it. They sell for a few hundred $$ used. Very popular industrial grade motors.

But... if I ever need to replace the entire pump and motor assembly, I'll definitely look at the Grundfos. ATM, I didnt want to worry about breaking down the 45 year old pipes, draining the system, dealing with possible joint leaks etc etc to replace the pump assembly when all of that works flawlessly (ceramic bearings). Just a 4 bolt motor R&R was quick and easy.

Either way, hotwater heat is the bomb... I absolutely love it! We run our house hotter than any neighbors in the winter, using less gas than they do with their forced air furnace systems.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The last time that I had my problems with the O rings I tried to break the bolts loose with everything that I had. I even dragged the air hose down from my garage and tried to get my impact wrench on it but it was a no go. I ended up getting the saws-all out and cutting 3 of the 4 bolts holding the pump to the pipes. 

I dread the next time that I look at it and see that it is leaking but I know how to take care of it now if the bolts are so corroded that they won't come apart.

On the heating of the home, your home must be a lot better insulated than mine. A previous owner tore out a forced air furnace and all the duct work except for the returns so there is no going back for me. Just a couple of years ago I had all 5 of the zone valves redone, I was tired of the motors going out and needing replacement. The newer ones work a lot better. But my experience with hot water heat is on the negative side. 

But then my boiler and system is quite possibly 40+ years old. I had a boiler guy look at it a number of years ago and he gave it the OK but who knows? I may need someone go through the system in the near future and see if they need to rearrange anything.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm seriously considering using one of those tiny hobby "Raspberry Pi" computers to run my system. Its soooo simple how it works from a 1970s technology staintpoint, I'm sure I could optimize it and make it even more efficient. For example, it should only run the boiler when the return water is below a certain temperature threshold. No sense in trying to heat already hot water... but the current system does just that.

All I would need is a temperature sensor or two (outflow and return flow lines), a couple of computer driven relays to start the boiler and pump, and input side for the 3 zones coming from the thermostats. It would be a very simple program to write to control all of that.

-DallanC


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Crap Dallan, I didn't think about them being closed on Saturdays. Sorry you spent a trip up for nothing. I should've sent you my info and you could have dropped it off at my place, then I would have ran it over for you Monday. Sorry!!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

If I planned it out better we could have went to lunch and shot the breeze for a bit. 

-DallanC


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