# 30 Caliber choice for a big ol bear



## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Hypothetically speaking:

If one was to only have the option of a 30Cal (Bullet make as a choice also) to kill a Kodiak Brownie, which would it be? Ill leave it open as to not sway anyone's choice...


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The 300 Win Mag has killed alot of bears. Ammo is plentiful as are rifles.

-DallanC


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## Idratherbehunting (Jul 17, 2013)

My first thought was the 300 Win Mag as well.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

200 grains and 300 win mag would probably be my choice as well.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Got cha- 

Bullet brand and construction?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Me personally I'd use a 200gr Swift A-Frame. Similar to the Nosler Partition, it uses a little harder lead in the nose to fragment less. Mushrooms great, retains all that lead in the rear cavity to drill deep.

Great bullets, more popular and well known for African hunting than here in the USA.










-DallanC


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Along Dallan's line of thinking -

I would definitely think long and hard about the choice of bullet. The A-Frame seems to be a largely forgotten bullet but is nonetheless a quality bullet that will hold up well.

The Nosler Partition would be another that I would consider.

And just because I am nostalgic about this caliber (even though its not a .30) - how bout a 45-70, or even better, a 45-110? 

You could even get a 45-70 in a Magnum Research revolver and carry it as your sidearm.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I am going to go old school on this one and pick the .300 H&H. 

For bullets I will go new school and go with Barnes 168 or 180 grain TTSX bullets, but wouldn't pass up on a Swift A Frame


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

The Canadians are really good at designing these kinds of guns since they have these kinds of bears in their back yards.

While you could indeed go with the vintage British 300 H&H it would make more sense to go with a more modern 300 magnum. My vote is the 300 RUM.

Not a big difference in terms of energy, but just an issue of modernization.

The data are about the same:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Remington_Ultra_Magnum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_H&H_Magnum


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Agreed on all counts of something faster harder hitting. BUT - Nothing against a big SLUG running in the 2500 range though. 


Bullets, specifically "Hammer bullets". Anybody heard of them, used them? They have a 30Cal 227Gr offering that looks promising.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Like @nambaster said, anything equal or over 200 grains is fine.

I like 200 grains exactly for everything I hunt with my scoped Remington.

That way I only need one scoped hunting rifle for everything in North America.

This leaves more room in my gun safe for my carbine, my pistol, my shotgun, and all my expensive other stuff.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

300 Blackout [snicker]


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

longbow said:


> 300 Blackout [snicker]


Lemme tie my shoelaces before you shoot... oh and a 5 second head start would be just peachy.

-DallanC


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm assuming you're asking about what 30cal bullet to use not cartridge. I can't imagine a better 30cal than your 30-26 Nosler for brownies. Throwing 210gr bullets at 3200fps is pretty awesome.
You should contact Broz on LongRangeHunting. (Jeff Brozavich) He's done extensive testing with heavy bullets on large animals (elk mostly). He keeps records of terminal performance on each animal killed. I'm sure he'll try to talk you into a Berger but he has the real-life experience to back Berger and the other bullets he's tested.
And, he's one of the nicest and most helpful guys I've ever met.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Man I would have thought you would have to have a way bigger bullet then a 300 mag to kill a brownie lol that's the minimum some would consider for deer arround here. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

+1
Nosler 30 210 grain.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

swbuckmaster said:


> Man I would have thought you would have to have a way bigger bullet then a 300 mag to kill a brownie lol that's the minimum some would consider for deer arround here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


The old timers talk about 375's for grizz but in truth the Canucks have found that 300 is fine.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

My choice would be a desert eagle 50 caliber like this guy. 





Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

30-06AI with big Partitions. That extra shell in the magazine makes no difference until you need it.------SS

.......unless you happen to have a 30-26. Then stick the big Partitions in it.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> My choice would be a desert eagle 50 caliber like this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Holy cow, is that Longgun? It looks just like him.

I remember seeing that a couple years ago. I love it. Good work swbuckmaster.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> My choice would be a desert eagle 50 caliber like this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well... there went 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

[Top of page]


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> I'm assuming you're asking about what 30cal bullet to use not cartridge. I can't imagine a better 30cal than your 30-26 Nosler for brownies. Throwing 210gr bullets at 3200fps is pretty awesome.
> You should contact Broz on LongRangeHunting. (Jeff Brozavich) He's done extensive testing with heavy bullets on large animals (elk mostly). He keeps records of terminal performance on each animal killed. I'm sure he'll try to talk you into a Berger but he has the real-life experience to back Berger and the other bullets he's tested.
> And, he's one of the nicest and most helpful guys I've ever met.


Yep I fully plan on building something around my 30-26, I was just curious as to what others would come up with... I DID find those leftover MRX's but they are only 165's. A little light for what I have in mind but with that tungsten core and going 3300+ they might/would punch right through if the range was on the closer side of things. A perfect test would have been that bullheaded young boar that was bent on getting that duck for breakfast that morning.

Im extremely intrigued with what might be IN those Hammer's...


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

I've booked my hunt for Alaska for 2018! The outfitter said anything over .300 but he prefers his clients to shoot a .375. He even has them to rent if I wanted to but I am using this as an excuse to buy a new rifle! I Can't wait to go. It's the top of my bucket list to kill a Grizzly and a Moose up there!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

What I have seen guides in Alaska want you to bring the biggest rifle you can just to err on the side of power. When I was looking at a Alaska brown bear hunt the outfitters that I talked to told me to bring a rifle from a 270 on up that I can shoot very well and not a rifle that I would be afraid of the recoil. 

Too many hunters bring that .375 H&H up and are afraid to shoot it as much as they should to get used to it and would actually be better off with a smaller caliber of rifle. 

Now that we know what Mr. Longgun has in mind I think that I would stick with the Swift-A-Frame in 180 grains or the Barnes TTSX 168 grain and see what they do on paper.


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## NVDuckin (Apr 18, 2016)

When I as up in Alaska this year, the guide said pretty much everyone he takes out for Kodiaks uses a .375 H&H.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I always thought a 338-06 would be a fun bear caliber. Hard hitting, reasonable recoil.


-DallanC


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

My sheep guide is a brown/grizzly spring bear hunting guide in Alaska and the Northwest Territories. He recommends, and uses, the 300 Win Mag Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets. Can't remember the grain size, 200 I think.

.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> What I have seen guides in Alaska want you to bring the biggest rifle you can just to err on the side of power. When I was looking at a Alaska brown bear hunt the outfitters that I talked to told me to bring a rifle from a *270 on up that I can shoot very well and not a rifle that I would be afraid of the recoil.*
> 
> Too many hunters bring that .375 H&H up and are afraid to shoot it as much as they should to get used to it and would actually be better off with a smaller caliber of rifle.
> 
> Now that we know what Mr. Longgun has in mind I think that I would stick with the Swift-A-Frame in 180 grains or the Barnes TTSX 168 grain and see what they do on paper.


*^^^This is exactly what im thinking^^^*


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Personally, I'd look into the Smith n Wesson 460 Mag, 275gr hollow point, iron sights of course.

.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> My sheep guide is a brown/grizzly spring bear hunting guide in Alaska and the Northwest Territories. He recommends, and uses, the 300 Win Mag Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets. Can't remember the grain size, 200 I think.
> 
> .


Too bad they are only offered in loaded ammo. -O,-


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Longgun said:


> Too bad they are only offered in loaded ammo. -O,-


I didn't know that.

.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

muleydeermaniac said:


> I've booked my hunt for Alaska for 2018! The outfitter said anything over .300 but he prefers his clients to shoot a .375. He even has them to rent if I wanted to but I am using this as an excuse to buy a new rifle! I Can't wait to go. It's the top of my bucket list to kill a Grizzly and a Moose up there!


That's really old school.

I don't know if this guide has a good reason for preferring the 375's or if he is just relying on his ancient past preferences.

You may want to see if he has had any experiences with failures at the 300 level? This would be interesting to know.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Karl said:


> That's really old school.
> 
> I don't know if this guide has a good reason for preferring the 375's or if he is just relying on his ancient past preferences.
> 
> You may want to see if he has had any experiences with failures at the 300 level? This would be interesting to know.


Brown bear guides still carry .375s with regularity for a good reason. Of the brown bears I know personally, all carry .375s with the exception of two. One has a 35 Whelen and the other carries a .416.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I understand the guide packing one. Usually when they need to take a shot something has gone very wrong and needs to be fixed in a hurry.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

longbow said:


> Of the brown bears I know personally, all carry .375s with the exception of two. One has a 35 Whelen and the other carries a .416.


Man, tales of those scary Alaskan brown bears just get crazier and crazier all the time. :mrgreen:

Cabin fever, maybe?


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> I didn't know that.
> 
> .


Nor did I until I went to Speer's site and found they were unavailable... Then I went on and dug up an old thread on a shooters site and stumbled upon a thread where it read, in short, production has been diverted to Military use because the Swift A Frame's have a "reputation" for slamming through windshields "pretty good".


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

I placed an order for some 227Gr Hammer Hunters yesterday that after the holidays I plan to put through the paces right along side some Nosler Partitions. 

... oh this is gonna be fun ...


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Clarq said:


> Man, tales of those scary Alaskan brown bears just get crazier and crazier all the time. :mrgreen:
> 
> Cabin fever, maybe?


me thinks someone was a lil sleepy at the time of that post eh? ;-)


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's a review of some 6mm Hammer bullets by Justin Hyer. I knew him when he lived in Logan, Utah. I even did some work on some parts he'd made. Good guy.
http://www.longrangeonly.com/6mm-243-80-gr-hammer-bullet-review-jason-hyer/

Here's a review of the 7mms by Kerby Allan. If any of you know FiftyDriver you will heed his advice.
http://www.longrangeonly.com/forum/...ullets-review-by-Kirby-Allen&highlight=hammer

I don't know Joel.
http://www.longrangeonly.com/hammer-125-gr-6-5-solid-copper-bullets-review-joel-blackburn/


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Fiftydriver... Now there's a name I haven't seen in awhile. Yes, info take in heed. Guy knows his stuff!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> ...................................
> 
> I don't know Joel.
> http://www.longrangeonly.com/hammer-125-gr-6-5-solid-copper-bullets-review-joel-blackburn/


The Hammer bullets are parabolic. Makes sense, less friction in the barrel. Maybe some vacuum alongside the projectile in the air making it go faster....who knows?

This is the same theory, inversely, behind the parabolic barrels in some firearms, i.e. many Glock pistols, my 256 Newton (a 6.5) and Remington's parabolic Super Slug shotgun barrels.

I'm surprised that the "parabolic" idea, around since 1912, isn't more popular. It's a way to get considerable more speed out of a projectile without increasing the pressure or reducing accuracy.

Thanks for the post Chuck. I found the articles fascinating.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

I hadnt realized the idea of parabolic had been around so long, thanks for the post goob.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*parabolics*



Longgun said:


> I hadnt realized the idea of parabolic had been around so long, thanks for the post goob.


Yeah.

It's easy to comprehend if you're familiar with parabolic barrels. The part of the bullet that engages the rifling, is oval, has a "valley" spiraling up that section of the projectile. This area provides less resistance for the bullet and it will travel faster with the same amount of pressure.

The inverse is true for parabolic barrels. The hole, the bullet path, in a parabolic barrel from the breech to muzzle is round. Slice the barrel in two anywhere and you'll find that the hole in the barrel at that given spot is oval. It'll be "out of round" by a few thousands, a big I.D. by about the depth of the rifling(s) I think. And the ovality, the valley, spirals up the barrel spinning the bullet like rifling does.

This reduction in projectile resistance is how they get the increased speeds out of the parabolic projectiles and parabolic barrels. This is how they turned the effective range of shotgun slugs from 50 yards to 175 yards. This is how I can get a 6.5mm 139 gr Accubond to do 3400 fps, with accuracy, out of my *1916* 256 Newton rifle with a 24" barrel. How many 6.5s today will do that?

More speed is really what you want for long distance hunting rifles. You want to reduce the time of flight, thus reducing bullet wind drift. You're not at the range doping the wind or waiting for the wind to stop, you're in a hunting situation and have to take what you got as far as the wind goes. I'm preaching to the choir here. You hunt with a 257 Weatherby. :grin:

Another "parabolic plus" is a reduction in recoil. Charles Newton wrote the book on that, 1912.

Sorry, I'm off the original post some.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*300 Win Mag performance out of a 30-06?*



wyogoob said:


> Yeah.
> 
> It's easy to comprehend if you're familiar with parabolic barrels. The part of the bullet that engages the rifling, is oval, has a "valley" spiraling up that section of the projectile. This area provides less resistance for the bullet and it will travel faster with the same amount of pressure.
> 
> ...


So now you got me thinking............

Using the Hammer projectiles could I get 300 Win Mag performance out of my 30-06??? Interesting. May have to get some parabolic bullets for my wife's 30-06. Shoot a big ol bear with it. 

iron sights of course

.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

My 227 Hammers showed over the weekend:mrgreen: ... Holy moly they are looooong but they do fit with 80Gr of H1000 under them, no crushing with just a -little- room to spare. Doubt ill be able to sneak up to the range for a good month or so but im very curious what they might have in store.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

227 Hammers / 215 Bergers


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Longgun said:


> My 227 Hammers showed over the weekend:mrgreen: ... Holy moly they are looooong but they do fit with 80Gr of H1000 under them, no crushing with just a -little- room to spare. *Doubt ill be able to sneak up to the range for a good month or so but im very curious what they might have in store.*


That's enough to drive a person crazy, having to look at those beautiful freshly loaded rounds for that long. And it could drive some of us crazy too waiting for your range report!


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

LOL! Agreed 110% 

If I had a dollar for every time I held that box of b.e.a.u.t.i.f.u.l bullets over the weekend... thinking "oh it'll only take a couple hours to verify" id be a very rich man! They're so purty I almost don't want to shoot em up. Almost :grin:


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)




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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Testing, testing, 1-2-3-4 Can anyone see Longgun's pic in post #49 above? I don't see a picture in that post.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Testing, testing, 4-5-6


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Longgun said:


> 227 Hammers / 215 Bergers


I can't open the picture in this post. Anyone else?

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I see it. Very long bullet. What twist does it require to stabilize?


-DallanC


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

I see it. Looks cool!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> Testing, testing, 1-2-3-4 Can anyone see Longgun's pic in post #49 above? I don't see a picture in that post.


Yep, it is a picture of two bullets in the palm of his hand.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> Yep, it is a picture of two bullets in the palm of his hand.


I don't see it in post #49 and in post #46 the pic wont open for me.

.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

I see it in #49 for a split second before the page finishes loading, then it disappears. I can open it with a right-click|open in new window.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*prolly Russian hackers in UWN*



nocturnalenemy said:


> I see it in #49 for a split second before the page finishes loading, then it disappears. I can open it with a right-click|open in new window.


Yeah, me too. You should only have to click on a png thumbnail to open it.

.


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

He stated He has had almost perfect results with the .375. He has had hunters use other rifle calibers with not quite perfect shot placement and had bears charge. So said he tends to lean on the side of caution when recommending a caliber. I have personally shot a .375 and am comfortable shooting one. I have only hunted black bear here in Utah and my .270 puts them down quite easily but it will be a whole lot different up there! I can't wait!



Karl said:


> That's really old school.
> 
> I don't know if this guide has a good reason for preferring the 375's or if he is just relying on his ancient past preferences.
> 
> You may want to see if he has had any experiences with failures at the 300 level? This would be interesting to know.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

For those interested in trying out some Hammer bullets, the owner just listed a 10% promo code that's good until the end of January 2017. I may pick up a box for my .308.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/hammer-coupon-179716/


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

Maybe .300 win with 240 gr woodleigh? 
200 gr Aframe or tsx great choices too


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I plan using .375 for Blackbear when I'm able to go next. I don't need it for Blackbear but figure a clean pass through and big holes on either side will be preferable in thick brush


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

nocturnalenemy said:


> I see it in #49 for a split second before the page finishes loading, then it disappears. I can open it with a right-click|open in new window.


That's because these bullets are fast....whoooosh...GONE! Didn't even see them.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I see it. Very long bullet. What twist does it require to stabilize?
> 
> -DallanC


States 1-8 but im told a 1-10 should do it. After a brief message with the owner, my 82Gr H1000 should be about max max maybe a little more granted there is room in the case. i plan to start somewhere around 76 and work up .5 at a time watching for node indicators and pressure.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

35whelen said:


> Maybe .300 win with 240 gr woodleigh?
> 200 gr Aframe or tsx great choices too


Figuring there likely wont be a need for a sleek long range typ bullet, might could go that way also. Always been a fan of a stout Woodleigh.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> That's because these bullets are fast....whoooosh...GONE! Didn't even see them.


Precisely what i want to see in the fire of that Boar-to-be's eye's when i break that sear. WOOSH GONE when i hit him.

btw- how fast can you run? :bolt:


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Longgun said:


> Precisely what i want to see in the fire of that Boar-to-be's eye's when i break that sear. WOOSH GONE when i hit him.
> 
> btw- how fast can you run? :bolt:


I'll be hiding right behind you until you shoot, then.....whoooosh....GONE! Didn't even see me!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Longgun said:


> Precisely what i want to see in the fire of that Boar-to-be's eye's when i break that sear. WOOSH GONE when i hit him.
> 
> btw- how fast can you run? :bolt:


That's what I always tell my wife when we're in bear country, I never worry because all I have to do is be able to out run you and I can do that running backwards.....somehow she is never amused.:shock:


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> That's what I always tell my wife when we're in bear country, I never worry because all I have to do is be able to out run you and I can do that running backwards.....somehow she is never amused.:shock:


Doesn't she know that all that she needs to do is to trip you when you are running backwards?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Longgun said:


> States 1-8 but im told a 1-10 should do it. After a brief message with the owner, my 82Gr H1000 should be about max max maybe a little more granted there is room in the case. i plan to start somewhere around 76 and work up .5 at a time watching for node indicators and pressure.


Meh I cant use them in my 7STW anyway... they are too long and I'm already loading to the max length the magazine allows. Guess I could single feed them in the field but thats no fun at all... if I wanted to do that I'd carry my Ruger #1.

-DallanC


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

The picture reminds me of the time I went down to Riverdale and bought some 215 gr Bergers for my 300 Win Mag.

Man those bullets are really fast, so fast they beat me back to Evanston.

uh...top of the page

.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> The picture reminds me of the time I went down to Riverdale and bought some 215 gr Bergers for my 300 Win Mag.
> 
> Man those bullets are really fast, so fast they beat me back to Evanston.
> 
> ...


They were probably sitting in front of Romantix drinking high-point beer and blowing off fireworks before you came chugging your Clampett truck back into town, (if bullets could do that, that's probably what they'd do anyway).


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

WSM all day and on Sunday. On an animal like that I think weight retention is the most important factor, which leaves only one contender left in the ring made right here in our home state in Mona! 180 grains with 173 of them hitting the heart sounds like the ticket to me.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Update:

Fifteen of these little Hammer honeys are now atop fresh brass...

5 ea (79, 80, 81gr) H1000


Eyeballing this weekend potentially for a test run.


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