# Well, it is all over. What needs to change?



## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

The season is as good as gone for 99% of us here in Utah. It was a fantastic season for me even though I hunted only half as much as usual. What would you like to see change either with laws or regulations for next year?

Myself, I would sure like to see a rest area or motorless area established on Cutler marsh. (even though I know it is not likely to happen any time soon because it is privately owned.) That place got pounded this year like I have never seen before. There were quite a lot of ducks in the valley most of the season, but most of the birds never left the sewer ponds. I would also like to see a 2-3 wood duck limit.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

I agree with you on both counts, Joel. The wood duck limit would be a big step forward in my opinion. My only other main complaint with the way ducks are managed in Utah was when they had the shorter scaup season, which was resolved this year and will hopefully continue for the future. My other gripes, like skybusting, lack of ethics, and general jackassery all fall under the "can't fix stupid" category, so I guess they will stay as they are!


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

I heard take it for what it is worth... That an updated sewer system is on the menu for Cache Valley as the one in use now violates several laws... anybody else hear the same??? I understand that the open sewer lagoons in the valley are the biggest in the western states.. 

Most of my gripe falls under what pump gunner said...


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I would like to see the goose season extend into February. For that matter, I would like to see the duck season extend later too. This would entail opening the season a week later or adding a split for ducks and extending the spilt for geese. 
R


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I would like to see the Pintail limit increased to 3 birds per day, only 1 may be a hen. 
Split the dark goose season like it is now, but a longer split in October. This would allow us to hunt in February when the geese are heading back to the marshes. (This is the only way I see getting a handle on the urban goose populations, other than hunting golf courses) Or let us have a spring dark goose hunt in March with the snow goose hunt.
Close the swan hunt in October and let it run until the end of December. (There isn't that many Trumpeters).
We need more and better trash containers on the WMA's. I noticed this year more than any other that people are actually using them, and they are always overflowing with garbage. Maybe a dumpster(s) at each WMA that is emptied weekly during the season. (I assume the WMA managers take care of the trash now?) 
I would also like to see more duck banding projects, like the goose banding that is done here.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I've been pretty satisfied with duck regulations ever since they eliminated the shorter scaup season. 

I'd rather see them close the goose season for the split in November instead of October.

I wouldn't mind a separate merganser limit like they have in Nebraska either.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

rjefre said:


> I would like to see the goose season extend into February. For that matter, I would like to see the duck season extend later too. This would entail opening the season a week later or adding a split for ducks and extending the spilt for geese.
> R


Will NEVER happen! The big money goose clubs up north FREAKED out when the split season was proposed a few years back. That is the ONLY reason for the northern goose zone now. Apparently the deep pocket crowd doesn't like the cold so booking days would be poor for the clubs.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

I would like some water, especially early, swan hunting blew because of dry ponds all summer. Continued war on the phrag, they have done a good job, massive improvements out at howard slough, hopefully they can build on that. More undercovers, especially on the most used areas(the places the clowns frequent) like shotgun alley on the slough. It is a dump, and the 1/2 hour before or after shooting is sad.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I would like to see no more waterfowl hunting when it's dark.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

I'd like to see a WMA stamp requirement in order to legally hunt on one. The garbage detail and enhanced law enforcement would come with a price and an additional stamp would offset that cost. I think people like to think that WMAs occur naturally and it's "free" public land.


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

I'd like to see a little money go into phrag control on Utah lake. Also like to see the duck hunt start and end later in the year.


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## Quacker Smacker (Mar 3, 2010)

i would like to see a higher pintail limit and like mentioned above a 2-3 wood duck limit. also i would like to see more law enforcement and stricter penaltys for those that break the law


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Donttreadonme said:


> The season is as good as gone for 99% of us here in Utah. It was a fantastic season for me even though I hunted only half as much as usual. What would you like to see change either with laws or regulations for next year?
> 
> Myself, I would sure like to see a rest area or motorless area established on Cutler marsh. (even though I know it is not likely to happen any time soon because it is privately owned.) That place got pounded this year like I have never seen before. There were quite a lot of ducks in the valley most of the season, but most of the birds never left the sewer ponds. I would also like to see a 2-3 wood duck limit.


that didnt take long ... pressure is pressure but Ill raise your one rest area to two, just leave them_ *legit* _rest areas, but like you said, im sure it will never happen. 2 bird limit on woodys, one hen and a drake or two drakes.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

the thing i would like to see the most is some kind of plan between the DWR and Pacificorp regarding Cutler reservoir to give the birds some kind of sanctuary on that reservoir. It might be privately owned but the waterfowl and the needs of the sportsmen are the DWR's responsibility and they need to work together with Pacificorp and come come up with some kind of solution to the growing problem. I think there could be one as pacificorp does have regulations on the lake regarding where you can and cant have certain hp motors on that lake and they do have some things going on there that are pro wildlife so i dont think it is as hard a road as it seems to get some kind of rest area or something going on that lake but the DWR needs to get involved and work with Pacificorp and toss ideas around and see what would work and what wont. Cutler is too valuable for cache valley to not put the effort into it and I hope the DWR would put this at the top of the list and not give up. The DWR is charged with the responsibility to protect all wildlife in the state and not just the ones on state land so they need to work with private land owners for the benefit of wildlife and sportsman, no matter how tough or even "political" it might be, its what they are getting paid to do.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I really like Stablebuck's suggestion about a WMA stamp. Example: Farmington Bay will see approx 20,000 vehicles in the next month or so (mostly by birders). An entance fee or WMA stamp would go a long way toward helping them with maintenance costs. The legislature is not keen on giving us any money for the WMA's, so why not charge a fee and keep it in the WMA kitty?
R


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

rjefre said:


> I really like Stablebuck's suggestion about a WMA stamp. Example: Farmington Bay will see approx 20,000 vehicles in the next month or so (mostly by birders). An entance fee or WMA stamp would go a long way toward helping them with maintenance costs. The legislature is not keen on giving us any money for the WMA's, so why not charge a fee and keep it in the WMA kitty?
> R


I would support this. Make the people who use it foot the bill. Hunters, watchers, whoever. Fair is fair.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

the idea of a WMA entrance fee has been kicked around for a number of years.

R,
has it not been officially proposed?


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

where is the 20,000 vehicles in the next month number coming from? i think the DWR might be a bit high on that estimation. that is around 650+ vehicles average a day for the month. that seems a bit high. i doubt even the bear river refuge sees that kind of daily traffic. 

i am not against a WMA entrance fee as long as it doesnt include sportsmen as we pay enough already with licenses, stamps and the taxes on hunting equipment.

the idea of getting non-consumptive users to pay isnt a new idea but rather just a hard one to implement. The argument will be made, as it has been for many years, is consumptive users such as hunters put a greater financial burden on wildlife so hence they should pay more. The problem is how do you get non-consumptive users to pay "their fair share" when nobody has even figured out what that amount should be. Should they pay as much as sportsmen? Should they pay less because of less costs inferred? Their is also the very real risk of alienating other wildlife supporters which could indeed hurt all of us down the road. Less support for wildlife in all its forms means less money for wildlife. If we start charging schools and field trips and kids dont get the opportunity to come to a WMA and get interested in wildlife then the future of wildlife is bleak at best. And if you only charge for some and not all non-consumptive users then its back to the fairness issue again. It's a damned if you do and damned if you dont scenario and a fine line between getting non-consumptive users to pay their fair share into the system without alienating them and losing their support because lets face it even though many birders might be against hunting, protecting habitat helps all forms of wildlife and users that enjoy it so we have to be very careful we dont lose their support while trying to get them to pay into the system.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

Sprig Kennels said:


> i am not against a WMA entrance fee as long as it doesnt include sportsmen as we pay enough already with licenses, stamps and the taxes on hunting equipment.


so you would refuse to use the WMA and you would not buy the stamp if it was mandatory?


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Sprig, I'm very sorry... I was typing before engaging my brain. FB will expect about 20,000 birders *this season*. Approx 13,000 visitors in February in approx 4600 vehicles in Feb. Sorry for the confusion guys. 
R


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

School trips to Antelope Island can get a reduced fee. Maybe that would help in a WMA setting. 
The Utah Waterfowl Association has discussed proposing something along the lines of an access fee. No consensus was reached, but it may be worth discussing again.
R


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

rjefre said:


> Sprig, I'm very sorry... I was typing before engaging my brain. FB will expect about 20,000 birders *this season*. Approx 13,000 visitors in February in approx 4600 vehicles in Feb. Sorry for the confusion guys.
> R


thanks for the clarification. that seems like more realistic numbers.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

ultramagfan2000 said:


> I'd like to see a little money go into phrag control on Utah lake. Also like to see the duck hunt start and end later in the year.


i think phrag control on utah lake is a lot more beneficial than wasting millions of dollars on an endangered fish that will most likely be gone soon anyway no matter how much money is spent on netting carp. I think wildlife officials at all gov't levels need to choose their battles more wisely. I fish utah lake and the phrags are slowly choking off all the good fishing spots and we all know how it hurts the duck hunting. i think the money could be better spent down there at the moment and curtailing the phrags would be at the top of my list.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

stablebuck said:


> Sprig Kennels said:
> 
> 
> > i am not against a WMA entrance fee as long as it doesnt include sportsmen as we pay enough already with licenses, stamps and the taxes on hunting equipment.
> ...


i rarely hunt state WMA's for waterfowl and havent done so for a while now but even if i did hunt them regularly my answer would be no, i probably wouldnt buy a WMA stamp because right now i think any increase in wildlife funding should come from other sources than sportsmen. we pay enough as it is with taxes and licenses and the federal stamp. If i am not mistaken, didnt the state have a state duck stamp? i know they had a state upland game stamp that only lasted for a few years but it seems like when i first got into duck hunting i thought there was a state stamp that was required. maybe my old senile mind is playing tricks on me but does anybody else remember this or am i getting senile.

i think the funding should come from an excise tax on non-consumptive wildlife related products such as bird feeders, bird Id books and so forth, much like the tax that we pay on the items we use for hunting.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

I believe a stamp requirement for WMA use is pretty much a commonly accepted practice in almost every state. WMAs don't run themselves...the people that use them should help out and paying for an additional stamp is a lot easier than renting a tractor and helping do work on a WMA during the week. Western states have the luxury of having millions of acres of wilderness areas that require little to no maintenance and they provide game for the hunt. I'd hate to see what would happen to Farmington Bay if it got as little attention from the state as say an area of equal size in the middle of the Uintas. I, for one, am willing to pay whatever is necessary to enjoy the outdoors. If you lumped all the stamps into one big "sportsman" license people would pay for it every year just for the simplicity of it and the fact that the money goes to support their sport.


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

i like to see the state duck stamp come back


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

why did the state duck stamp go away?


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

It is my understanding that the state didn't like administering a duck stamp. the state offered up $200 k yearly to the waterfowl habitat program if waterfowlers would not push for a stamp...that worked for a while, but last year the legislature cut back and the money wasn't there. We screwed up...we trusted the legislature. Any WMA access fee would need to be directly benefiting the WMA's, if the legislature can access any of it, then say goodbye to it.
R


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## M Gayler (Oct 3, 2010)

I love how you people think giving more money to the government (state or WMA stamp) will do any good at all. If you want to give more donate to Ducks Unlimited where it will be used appropriate.


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## NothinButGreen (Dec 4, 2010)

M Gayler said:


> I love how you people think giving more money to the government (state or WMA stamp) will do any good at all. If you want to give more donate to Ducks Unlimited where it will be used appropriate.


If you donate right. If you just send 20 bucks in then they just send you more letters and lame gifts. We're a bunch of ******** so were gonna support the NRA


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

M Gayler said:


> I love how you people think giving more money to the government (state or WMA stamp) will do any good at all. If you want to give more donate to Ducks Unlimited where it will be used appropriate.


I will not argue with you on the point that the state of Utah doesn't do the best job when it comes to using public funds. The public schools are absolutely terrible despite having a state income tax...that's proof enough that there are some seriously misled people in high places.
The WMAs I have hunted in Texas and Tennessee have practically been like my own private lease...so I am a big proponent of supporting the state when I see positive results associated with the minuscule contribution I have made by merely buying an additional stamp.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

stablebuck said:


> The public schools are absolutely terrible despite having a state income tax...that's proof enough that there are some seriously misled people in high places.


You mean the ones having all the kids? :lol:

I really wouldn't support a WMA entrance fee. I spend a lot of time hanging around WMA's during the off-season, but I don't think I would if it would cost me. It would also take time to pay every morning, and I'd rather spend that time sleeping or getting to my hunting spot.

However, I wouldn't mind paying a few more dollars for a WMA stamp if all the funds went where they needed to. I think that if everyone had to pay to enter a WMA, it would alienate a bunch of birdwatchers and wildlife enthusiasts who would otherwise visit.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

The idea of an entrance fee, or voluntary donations, has been discussed. We were told that administering these programs would be problematic, as it would require installing tamper-proof collection stations and two employees to collect the monies. I personally like user fees, and wouldn't mind a system like we have for the State Parks. After all, you have both consumptive and non-consumptive users in our parks. Frequent WMA users could also purchase season passes, either for a single or all WMAs. Of course, all money raised should go directly back to the DWR.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

the way the state does it tho, you will buy a wma pass but it won't be valid at all of them. I'm against a wma fee, the state will just take the money and spend it elsewhere and when they run short, they'll make us all pay some sort of other fee somewhere else. Rob peter to pay paul.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I agree, our Legislature cannot be trusted to use common sense. But I see no reason we couldn't have a season pass for all our WMAs. I wouldn't mind buying one, so long as the money was earmarked for enforcement, habitat improvement, education, outreach, improving the DWR wedsite, developing a comprehensive motorless program, etc.

Somebody had to say it. Eventually.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> ....developing a comprehensive motorless program, etc.


 -O|o-


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> I agree, our Legislature cannot be trusted to use common sense. But I see no reason we couldn't have a season pass for all our WMAs. I wouldn't mind buying one, so long as the money was earmarked for enforcement, habitat improvement, education, outreach, improving the DWR wedsite, developing a comprehensive motorless program, etc.
> 
> Somebody had to say it. Eventually.


oh paddler, such an optimist but with our legislature you need to think a little more outside the box. So I have a much better idea that our representatives are much more familar with, on all levels, and more open minded to! Here is my proposal, We take large sections of prime public marshes, and we auction off permits in order to hunt them. These permits will be auctioned off by a private lobbying group of course, and some of the money will go back into habitat restoration! But at the lobbying groups discretion of course.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Golf, I'm in no way optimistic about our legislature. "Fools On The Hill" is more apt. Of course, it will never change. We sent Lee to Washington, and Chaffetz, et al.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I would like to see the season open in December and go through March. That way when guys bring birds to me to mount they will all be nice mature full plume birds with no pinfeathers. Sigh.....  Am I being selfish? :twisted:


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

I like your thinking Tex


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I would like to see the season open in December and go through March. That way when guys bring birds to me to mount they will all be nice mature full plume birds with no pinfeathers. Sigh.....  Am I being selfish? :twisted:


I like it! I don't get excited about ducks till mid-November. Who needs mosquitoes and pin feathers?


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

my "user fee" is my license, duck stamp and excise taxes on shells and gear. sportsmen pay their fair share already and shouldnt be nickled and dimed for more money until other users start contributing. I couldn't support any entrance fee put on hunters backs when they already pay to hunt there. If they dont start coming up with ideas on how to get non-consumptive users to kick in some money to the cause then keeping the burden soley on sportsmen will start to make it to where people will stop hunting all together and then we lose out on all the money those hunters bring into the system which would mean more burden for the remaining hunters and it would eventually lead to a rich mans sport if we go down that road and start to lose hunters and the money they bring in by licenses,taxes and duck stamps. we cant afford to lose hunters as they pay the lions share for wildlife in this state but adding WMA entry fees would start to push some of them away and what money they made on entry fees would end up being lost by a reduction in licenses, taxes, etc....we need to add to the program without alienating sportsmen and they money they bring in and its time to come up with a plan for non consumptive users to join in, somehow someway.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The problem I see with having non-consumptive users paying fees at the WMA's is that it will give them a voice in how the WMA's are managed. I don't want bird watchers telling me what days of the week I can hunt a WMA.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

personally i think the DWR should come up with some kind of marketing or advertising program where outdoor related businesses could pay to advertise to those who visit the WMA's. they should also think about advertising on their website, have sponsors for suitable publications in addition to the hunting proclamations. Its time the DWR start thinking more like a business than a public agency to help bring in dollars for wildlife. i know they allow ads in proclamations but their is so much more they could do to bring in revenue if they would do it. i dont know the "political" ramifications of such an idea but businesses run ads on UTA buses for example so why dont they come up with some kind of workable program that will help wildlife. just a thought but it seems crazy teh DWR doesnt try and explore this avenue before any "fees" are even considered. if a business is willing to pay to have some "appropriate" and related advertising, why not let them do so if it brings in some more money to the cause....


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I hunt WMA's a few times a year and I would be all for a WMA fee IF all money raised went directly to the WMA's for habitat related work AND if it were a flat fee, good for the calendar year and all WMA's. I only hunt WMA's 3-4 times per season and I would gladly pay ~$20/year for that privilege. I think a per day fee would be too difficult/costly to institute.

Another way to help raise funds for the WMA's would be blind draws. Hunters could pay a small fee to enter the draw for a WMA blind. For those who aren't willing to pay the fee, you could have a morning of the hunt lottery for the unclaimed blinds. You show up at the WMA, put your name in the hat for one of he blinds that have not been claimed for the day.


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## dark_cloud (Oct 18, 2010)

Start the the SWAN hunt a month later and end it at the end of december. And I am all for makeing a pass for WMA's. Make the pass for $75 and if you have a valid hunting permit then make it half price, they will either pay full price or buy a hunting license. Why should all of the bird watchers get a free ride. Half of them hate hunters because we shoot birds that they want to take pictures of. Everybody needs to pay their fair share. The state also needs to start useing the money that sportsman generate, for the wildlife. Not just put it in the general fund


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I would only support a WMA entrance fee IF every dollar was spent on frag and kept in the WMA's. Since the government has proved that they cannot be trusted to keep their greedy hands out of any available money, I highly doubt I would support it.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Donttreadonme said:


> Another way to help raise funds for the WMA's would be blind draws. Hunters could pay a small fee to enter the draw for a WMA blind. For those who aren't willing to pay the fee, you could have a morning of the hunt lottery for the unclaimed blinds. You show up at the WMA, put your name in the hat for one of he blinds that have not been claimed for the day.


This one I disagree with. We do not want to go to a draw blind crap.

I would love to see the swan hunt start in Nov and end in Dec. But I know that not going to happen.I already talked to Tom about it and he told me it would never happen. I would love to see the bird watchers pay some kinda free to the wmas. I would like to see them give more tickets out on center dike at fb and other place. They can get some nice chunk of change just from there.


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## dark_cloud (Oct 18, 2010)

dkhntrdstn said:


> Donttreadonme said:
> 
> 
> > Another way to help raise funds for the WMA's would be blind draws. Hunters could pay a small fee to enter the draw for a WMA blind. For those who aren't willing to pay the fee, you could have a morning of the hunt lottery for the unclaimed blinds. You show up at the WMA, put your name in the hat for one of he blinds that have not been claimed for the day.
> ...


I agree with the pay for a blind crap....That just takes hunters out of a blind. What tickets are you talking about? After hours, over limit, hunting rest areas, ect.....?


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

Blind draws would be great on some of our WMA's. Just think of how nice it would be to have your own blind without another hunter within several hundred yards. A minimal fee to enter the drawing, would raise money for habitat improvements and the limited number of hunters would dramatically reduce the trash, overcrowding, and other complaints many WMA hunters have. I see them as a win win.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

I'm not a huge fan of the blind drawing...pushes too many hunters away that would otherwise be out there hunting...
...although...if enough improvements were made to increase access say throughout FB WMA then you could funnel hunters to certain areas and help spread them out more by creating blinds in areas that currently do not get a lot of pressure whatsoever...definitely a gamble with so much DWR money being dedicated to mule deer right now...pretty sure waterfowl would get the short end of the stick with funds allocation right now...


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

dark_cloud said:


> What tickets are you talking about? After hours, over limit, hunting rest areas, ect.....?


yes after hours shooting, not picking up there shells,there trash not tempting go get there birds.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Donttreadonme said:


> Blind draws would be great on some of our WMA's. Just think of how nice it would be to have your own blind without another hunter within several hundred yards. A minimal fee to enter the drawing, would raise money for habitat improvements and the limited number of hunters would dramatically reduce the trash, overcrowding, and other complaints many WMA hunters have. I see them as a win win.


I hunted a WMA with a blind draw system this year. We drew a good ball and got a good blind and had a good shoot, but there were a lot of guys that didn't have the same luck. The guys in both blinds to my left and right shot less than 1/4 of the birds we shot combined. It is a huge PITA, be there 1 1/2 before shooting to draw your ball and pick your blind, get setup and have birds landing 40 yards out of range and guess what, you can't move to shoot them, you have to shoot from your blind. We had birds landing 50 yards behind us on a river, can't go shoot them either.

What he had was guys shooting at the birds 65 yards up that were working our spread. It doesn't stop sky busters, all it does is limit your ability to adapt to your hunting situation and be where the birds want to be. If you don't like crowds, you can move further out and get to a spot without crowds. Why on earth would be want to screw up the best thing we have going on in our state. We can hunt anywhere and anytime on public land. I don't think we should mess with that.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

toasty said:


> I hunted a WMA with a blind draw system this year. We drew a good ball and got a good blind and had a good shoot, but there were a lot of guys that didn't have the same luck. The guys in both blinds to my left and right shot less than 1/4 of the birds we shot combined. It is a huge PITA, be there 1 1/2 before shooting to draw your ball and pick your blind, get setup and have birds landing 40 yards out of range and guess what, you can't move to shoot them, you have to shoot from your blind. We had birds landing 50 yards behind us on a river, can't go shoot them either.
> 
> What he had was guys shooting at the birds 65 yards up that were working our spread. It doesn't stop sky busters, all it does is limit your ability to adapt to your hunting situation and be where the birds want to be. If you don't like crowds, you can move further out and get to a spot without crowds. Why on earth would be want to screw up the best thing we have going on in our state. We can hunt anywhere and anytime on public land. I don't think we should mess with that.


+1 We don't need blind draws on the WMA's. We have more marsh here than other states that have draws. I don't think the WMA's are over crowded at all, at least where I hunt. If hunters would use the foot bridges, and walk further down some of the dikes they will find there are plenty of areas to hunt without interference. Now if you walk 100 yards down meat row dike at Farmington Bay and line up with all the other pass shooters, then yes you probably will have competition. Blind draws on public land are a bad idea and limit opportunity. If you want that you should join a duck club.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> toasty said:
> 
> 
> > Why on earth would be want to screw up the best thing we have going on in our state. We can hunt anywhere and anytime on public land. I don't think we should mess with that.
> ...


agreed. there is absolutely no reason to do blind draws in utah. we have so much public land to hunt there is no reason why hunters cant spread themselves out better.

I really dont like using blinds as a way to raise revenue because if we start to go down that road we will essentially turn our public land into clubs where we have to pay to hunt. i am all for private hunting clubs in utah, they add a ton of waterfowl to the region but we dont need to turn public land into a system where i cant go out and hunt when and where i like to. we dont want the gov't telling gun owers what guns they can and cant buy so why should we let them tell us when and where we can hunt. the blind system back east is used to help with overcrowding issues and should never be thought of as a means to raise money because when that happens it essentially stops being "public ground" and becomes an economic aspect. part of the public land hunting experience is dealing with pressure from other hunters, thats just part of the game. we all know that going in and each one of us has the same right to hunt public lands and i for one dont like any notion of limiting my right to hunt when and where i choose. i for one have no issues hunting public land as after the first couple of weeks most of the weekend warriors lose interest and stay home to watch football anyway. i hunt exclusively public land and if your willing to walk, boat or bike you can have some great hunts away from the crowds. the only time public land is an issue is anywhere near a dike.

one more thing to consider about the paying for blinds. this will push hunters out of the system for sure. that would mean less money for licenses, stamps and the excise taxes paid on guns and ammo for wildlife and our marshes. in this age where money is extremely tight for wildlife management we cant afford to lose the money brought in by all hunters by trying to get a few quick extra bucks. there are better ways to raise money than chancing alienating a large percent of people who pay into the system. public land is just that public and we should keep it that way. we all pay the same and we all have the same opportunities to hunt when and where we like.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

The blind idea is STUPID. The majority of public land for waterfowl hunting in utah is GSL. Are you going to regulate that? Gentlmen, the DWR can't check lic. as it is, they can't ticket for late or early shooting, they can't ticket for trash. We NEED less intrusion on our sport.
I would like to see a $5 phrag stamp. The money could only be used to fight phrag. I don't want to charge the bird watchers, it would give them a voice, and I doubt that voice would be benefical to us. As long as they ain't paying, no one cares what they think.
I would like the season to start a week later, I love opening day, it is a zoo, but its fun, however starting on the opener of elk season means I miss it every year.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

BUT, if you want money dumped into your sport you need to start a rumor about a world record bird. Perhaps talk about it at the SFW expo this month. Old Denny Austad, or one of his buddies will send Doyle $100k to scout it out, then he can get SFW to get him his own season, where he can start 5 days before anyone else, most likely during the molt, because shooting flying birds is just too hard. To get his own season he would throw out another $100k. That money would kill a lot of phrag. Because Denny did it this year, some oil dude would HAVE to do it next year, etc and etc. This is a foolproof finance system to pump money into the WMA's.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

hossblur said:


> I would like to see a $5 phrag stamp.


there actually used to be a $5 "habitat stamp" license that was purchased along with the hunting license but they did away with that or added it to the license or something to that affect. it was only around for a few years. I think the proceeds could only be used for habitat related projects.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Yeah I remember that, but I don't even want anything that generic, I would like a specific phrag tag. Seems Phrag is enemy number one in the WMA's, and when they have fought it they are very successful.


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## wingmanck (Sep 7, 2007)

...my hunting undies - they had a long, rough year!


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I am about 210% against blind draws. That would take all the fun out of waterfowling for me. I have no interest in someone telling me what spot I can hunt on public land. None! There is a young guy in L.A. as we speak trying hard to get into waterfowling. He is dealing with a draw system and is really having a hard time. I introduced him to the sport this last season. He can't wait to come back, but boy has he struggled out there. He says they come within about 60 yards of the blinds and that is about it. I think they only hunt certain days too. Last time he went he showed up early for the draw and didn't. It was something like a three hour drive to thisWMA. He got on some waiting list and waited for people to leave. I think he finally got a spot and set up about noon, and never fired a shot. Sounds like fun doesn't it?

I think we have it pretty good. I get alone almost every time I go. Most guys I know have success. 
Be careful what you wish for Joel.


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

:shock: And just in case I didn't make myself clear. I am against blind draws.


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

well like i said before if they bring back the state duck stamp it will help but the dwr here in utah does not care about there waterfowl hunter in this state


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Bret said:


> I am about 210% against blind draws. That would take all the fun out of waterfowling for me. I have no interest in someone telling me what spot I can hunt on public land. None! There is a young guy in L.A. as we speak trying hard to get into waterfowling. He is dealing with a draw system and is really having a hard time. I introduced him to the sport this last season. He can't wait to come back, but boy has he struggled out there. He says they come within about 60 yards of the blinds and that is about it. I think they only hunt certain days too. Last time he went he showed up early for the draw and didn't. It was something like a three hour drive to thisWMA. He got on some waiting list and waited for people to leave. I think he finally got a spot and set up about noon, and never fired a shot. Sounds like fun doesn't it?
> 
> I think we have it pretty good. I get alone almost every time I go. Most guys I know have success.
> Be careful what you wish for Joel.


Amen! One thing I really came to appreciate this past season was how much freedom and opportunity we have in this state when it comes to waterfowl hunting. One of my favorite things about waterfowl hunting here is exploring new places and finding new things. This season I went to every WMA along the lakefront at least once (in addition to quite a few other places) because I love that it's there for my use and I am free to be there and explore it. I love the feeling of freedom I have when I'm out there.

After the freeze, I gained access to an excellent hunting spot that was easy to access. I went there, threw out my decoys, and had a blast. I had such a good time that I did it again the next week and the week after that. It was fun, but it was a different kind of fun. If I had to hunt in state-managed blinds, it could be fun, but it wouldn't the same kind of fun as hunting in places that I found by myself after exploring the vast amount of land (and water) that I am free to explore. If anyone tries to take the right that I have to enjoy the land that I am allowed to enjoy in the way I want to, I will fight it to my death.

Rant finished.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

richard rouleau said:


> well like i said before if they bring back the state duck stamp it will help but the dwr here in utah does not care about there waterfowl hunter in this state


I think you would be surprised at how much they (DWR) are now tinking about waterfowling. I met with the new DWR director recently, and he definitely has concerns about the quality and accessibility of our duck hunting. He is new, so the rigors of the job (and dealing with the legislature) may take its toll, but for now, we are on his radar. I have high hopes for the DWR.
R


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

blind draws? :O>>:

woopee, specifically being _told where to hunt_... THAT sounds _just wonderful_.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

Longgun said:


> blind draws? :O>>:
> 
> woopee, specifically being _told where to hunt_... THAT sounds _just wonderful_.


I feel the same way about blind draws as I do about gun control.


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## dark_cloud (Oct 18, 2010)

Longgun said:


> blind draws? :O>>:
> 
> woopee, specifically being _told where to hunt_... THAT sounds _just wonderful_.


+1000 on this one. We dont want anything to do with blind draws.


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