# Can we deal with the racoons and other predators?



## Lefty (Sep 20, 2008)

My phez hunt on Saturday was a bust. I was on private land with great habitat and good huning in the past. The locals blame the decline on *****. 

Does anyone care? I love flushing wild roosters and feel that it is dirty rotten shame to let non-native racoons obliterate our tradition of pheasant hunting in this state. Does anyone else feel my pain? Do ya'll want your kids and grandkids to experience the rush of having wild roosters flushing a million miles per hour at your feet and all around you? 

Are racoons an insurmountable problem? If the DWR cared could they take measures to manage the **** population and improve the hunt? Can we, as interested sportsmen unite, write letters or do something that will make a difference? I believe that America is still a country where a few vocal people can make a difference. 

Count me in if anyone has any good ideas or wants to brainstorm.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I definitely feel your pain! 20 years ago when I began the sport my dad complained non stop about how much it had declined from the previous 20 years or so, we bagged out about half of the time and it was the only hunting I knew so I thought that we did just fine....to see the decline since then is incredible; I would have to assume a 90% decline or so. Where ditch banks used to be covered with pheasant tracks they are all now covered with **** tracks. I have hunted in two areas that are 95% unchanged from what they were 30 years ago as far as no loss of habitat in 95% of those places, the common denominator being *****. I certainly have not done any extensive studies, but my humble observation has been the *****. Saturday was the first time in 20 years that I was not out in the fields, really sucked! 

Can we do anything about it? Wow, seems like an insurmountable task; anyone drive Legacy just to see how many new ***** are hit everyday as they cross? That has opened my eyes to see just how many there are. With an animal like that that is so prolific in breeding, I can't imagine even making a dent in them; they would have to be nearly eradicated to really help the upland game I think. It looks like it would be a fun sport to take on hunting them at night to make up for no pheasant hunting.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

there is some thing we can do and that is to kill any ***** you see and don't stop killing them.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I noticed the exact same thing over the weekend. In talking with my father's uncle, who lives out in the fields, he and his wife have noticed the same thing. We hunted through a WMA and were absolutely astonished at how many raccoon tracks there were in the mud of the river in the area. 

I said the same thing to my friend that Huge just mentioned, maybe we should all lay off the phez for a few years and focus on the *****. 

It seems to be an epidemic for not only phez, but many other bird species as well. My dad's uncle mentioned that there were over 200 geese nesting in their area this spring, and not a single one was able to raise a brood due to the ***** getting into the eggs and the goslings. Its a shame! 

Is the only way to get something done to join DU or PF and get active, and even then, do they do anything by way of predator control projects?


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## guner (Sep 25, 2007)

I joined PF for 2 years, I do think they do an awesome job with things in the midwest but around here, the meetings I went to consisted mostly of talking about heading to SD or KS and hunting. They did a couple good projects, but it just was disapointing to me what was accomplished. My fault in part maybe but, I am no longer a member.  

It's not JUST the *****.... I have seen more D$*N fox's this year then in my whole life.


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## ktowncamo (Aug 27, 2008)

State wide **** hunt? Bring back **** hats and get a few kids to think they're "cool" to have and sooner than later stores won't be able to keep them in stock! :wink: 

I've seen a lot more of them lately myself up here in Kamas. Just in town they killed some ducks and chickens my neighbor had. In the foothills they are in abundance with no real enemy but my car, which nailed one a few weeks back.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

ktowncamo said:


> State wide **** hunt? Bring back **** hats and get a few kids to think they're "cool" to have and sooner than later stores won't be able to keep them in stock! :wink:
> 
> I've seen a lot more of them lately myself up here in Kamas. Just in town they killed some ducks and chickens my neighbor had. In the foothills they are in abundance with no real enemy but my car, which nailed one a few weeks back.


You guys are on to something; who can teach me how to hunt them?


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

I trapped one My first of hopefully many stupid buggers.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

We can deal with the racoons and other predators but most people aren't willing to go through the process to help pheasants out and clear an area of *****,foxes,coyotes, and skunks predators of the air there is nothing we can do but if anyone would put in a little effort to help get rid of them predator populations wouldn't be booming right now. I have 1 foot trap and a foot pedal trap cage. I've decided if I am a pheasant hunter and want them around for years to come and forever I have to put something into to keep them around. *****, coyotes, and foxes aren't hard to deal with they are usually on the foot clamp traps and its pretty self evident what I do with them simply shoot them and haul them off. Skunks are a little more tricky and its obviouse why they have more of a weapon while they are trapped a weapon I haven't had to deal with on me yet. I cover my foot pedal cage trap with a black garbage bag which lessens the chance the skunk will get its spray on you although the smell will still be fairly unmanageable. I also attach a rope 15 ft to the cage and drag it to a 55 gallon barrel where I dump the cage in and drowned the skunk and haul it off. Put a little effort, buy a $30.00 trap cage from cabelas and start getting rid of the predators in your area. I usually bait my traps with eggs or a small peace of raw meat but what has worked best for me is after cleaning a pheasant, duck, chukar, etc. place the leftovers in or by your foot trap and you'll catch plenty. I think if every pheasant hunter would put an effort into TRYING to get rid of the predators it could be held under control but very few hunters take the time to trap and only shoot things if they see them while hunting which is fine but it would be nice if every pheasant hunter would get a foot trap and a cage trap and try catching a few of the predators you speak of,and I feel if you want to hunt pheasants you need to do some predator control as well. Thats my feelings if you don't try catching and killing predators you have nothing to be wining about.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Traps as simple as this can help get rid of predators a load, buy and try one for the amount of predators you can get rid of the price is well worth it...
Foot trap:








Foot Trap
Cage Trap:








Cabelas Cage Trap


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Utah's pheasants fate:


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## duck jerky (Sep 8, 2007)

I been trying to do my part while hunting this year I've killed 2 skunks and raccoon. also when driving to work at 3:00am I see a fox, racoon and even skunks I try to hit them.


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## pintail (Apr 20, 2008)

This is 1 of 9 ***** that my buddy and i have got this year. They are freakin nasty sons of biotches!!!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

pintail said:


> This is 1 of 9 ***** that my buddy and i have got this year. They are freakin nasty sons of biotches!!!


You ain't just a kidden, I have only caught skunks and raccoons trust me the skunks attitudes are like bunny rabbits compared to raccoons you corner one of them suckers (or trap) and they get mean. How'd you get em' just by seeing them, trapping them, or hunting them?


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## pintail (Apr 20, 2008)

We were trapping them at our nursery where we keep all our trees. We have a pheasant coop that they always try getting into but little did they know we buried sheet metal 3 feet deep in the ground all around the coop so they never got in. I was able to get one with my bow. That was fun.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Nasty buggers:


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

THEIR NEEDS TO BE A BOUNTy. AND some dedicated sportsman.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

No dought about it, racoons, fox, coyotes, skunks, they all get a few birds...BUT, I'll tell right now that our worst preditor is the Raven. This airborn nest raider kills more pheasants, chukars, sage hens, etc than all the others combined. I don't know how we can stop him, any ideas?


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

> I don't know how we can stop him, any ideas?


high :twisted: brass 6's


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

oops, i meant this: :twisted: high brass 6's :twisted:


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## Dekashika (Oct 23, 2007)

I agree that predators need to be controlled, and am not a fan of the raccoon.

However, I wonder why pheasant numbers do well in other areas such as the Dakotas or Kansas? Do they have some way of dealing with these predators? I suspect that there would be just as many *****, skunks, and ravens in those states. Maybe even more if there is more prey(pheasants). Any thoughts as to what makes the difference on the impact of predators?


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Sadly, there is no real "answer" for predators. In a "natural world" predator numbers are controlled by prey numbers, but we are just not living in a natural world. Natural habitat is out of balance and has been changed by development, farming, water distribution, etc. Some predators are opportunistic and can survive better in unbalanced environments, in fact some even thrive because they are better suited for the changed surroundings and can really take advantage of those prey animals that depend on an un-altered ecosystem. This is what has happened in Utah and other "marginal" pheasant states. In those states with larger tracks of ideal pheasant habit, the predator/prey ratio can better stay balanced at natural levels. Don't also forget that we, the hunters, are also predators and in states like Utah with an already out of balanced system, are simply adding to the problem.
In conclusion...Utah will probably never be a good pheasant hunting state. Enjoy what we have, have a safe hunt with the family but don't expect to kill a lot of birds here.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> No dought about it, racoons, fox, coyotes, skunks, they all get a few birds...BUT, I'll tell right now that our worst preditor is the Raven. This airborn nest raider kills more pheasants, chukars, sage hens, etc than all the others combined.


Seriously? how do you arrive at that conclusion? It is a rare instance for me to see a raven except at Lake Powell.

As to control, at Desert Lake WMA in Emery County they keep on top of the predators trapping normally 20+ cats, about the same number of ***** and skunks with a few fox and coyote and keep a few pheasants around, obviously that is a small controlled environment, hard to do on a large scale. I really am interested in **** hunting, who is going to show me the ropes?


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## WirehairI-12 (Feb 26, 2008)

Wow, I have not been on since last week and wanted to see how everyones opening day went. And to my surprise, exactly like mine. I was on private land up in corrinne, I have gone there opening morning for the past 5 years. There has never been a time where we didn't get a bird up (on opening morning), dang *****! My GSP got one into a tree, and I put it down hard. About 15 min. later while the dogs were workin the brush I heard another trying to sneak behind me...5 ft. away, point blank range. Ouch. And finally, we were working back to the truck when gage (my wirehair) went on point. I through my gun up only to see him jump forward into the brush. Another ****! but this time, gage was getting his a** kicked. My other wirehair deek heard him and the **** (making the wierdest noise). Went in and somehow ended up in a creek at the bottom of the hill...............the fight lastest about 4 min before I could get to them, get them back and shoot the ****. When all was finished gage had cuts on his back and deek on his mouth, leg, and under his eye. They are mean little buggers.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

WirehairI-12 said:


> Wow, I have not been on since last week and wanted to see how everyones opening day went. And to my surprise, exactly like mine. I was on private land up in corrinne, I have gone there opening morning for the past 5 years. There has never been a time where we didn't get a bird up (on opening morning), dang *****! My GSP got one into a tree, and I put it down hard. About 15 min. later while the dogs were workin the brush I heard another trying to sneak behind me...5 ft. away, point blank range. Ouch. And finally, we were working back to the truck when gage (my wirehair) went on point. I through my gun up only to see him jump forward into the brush. Another ****! but this time, gage was getting his a** kicked. My other wirehair deek heard him and the **** (making the wierdest noise). Went in and somehow ended up in a creek at the bottom of the hill...............the fight lastest about 4 min before I could get to them, get them back and shoot the ****. When all was finished gage had cuts on his back and deek on his mouth, leg, and under his eye. They are mean little buggers.


They are bad SOB's, my uncle had a Great Pyrenees of no less than 150 lbs, he would eat them for lunch, snap there back pretty quick, but he would still get his face ripped to pieces each time. You must feel a little better after being skunked that you were able to take out 3 critters minus the dog's injury??


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## WirehairI-12 (Feb 26, 2008)

Yeah I do I guess. Frusterated that my favorite area is no more. I'm going to go back out there tonight or tomorrow to try and get some more of them. I have never had an experience with ***** like that. They just lay on there back and when the dogs go in they just attack! And the sound they make! Oh my god it sounds like smeegle hacking on a fish. The dogs were doing pretty good until they got into the water, I was surprised at how good the **** was in it. In addition to the *****, I saw a badger and a fox. We will see what we get when I go out there again.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

WirehairI-12 said:


> Yeah I do I guess. Frusterated that my favorite area is no more. I'm going to go back out there tonight or tomorrow to try and get some more of them. I have never had an experience with ***** like that. They just lay on there back and when the dogs go in they just attack! And the sound they make! Oh my god it sounds like smeegle hacking on a fish. The dogs were doing pretty good until they got into the water, I was surprised at how good the **** was in it. In addition to the *****, I saw a badger and a fox. We will see what we get when I go out there again.


I am just glad that you didn't run into any wolverines or woofies, my crap, sounds like the place is infested! :shock:


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## adamb (Sep 23, 2007)

when my family and I moved into our house that we are living in now 3 years ago. well we only moved about 4 blocks closer to the bottom of the mountain. it has a gully in the back yard with a couple streams going down it. i had never seen a raccoon in person before, but it seems like i saw one atleast 3 times a week. one night i saw one while driving down our street that looked like it had to be a 50 pounder. anyway i started trapping them and the first year i got around 20  last year probably 7 and this year 3 and then one at howard slough and today my sister saw a fox in our backyard


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## Lefty (Sep 20, 2008)

I hunt phez in MT. They don't have a **** problem but they do have problems with coyotes and foxes. In some parts of the state the fish and game control them; shoot them from helicopters if they get too thick. When they do that the hunting improves. Why can't our fish and game do something like that? Couldn't they take an active role in controlling the problem or at least provide some leadership?

Another friend of mine who lives on a indian res in MT said that a local killed 400 foxes last year (he gets a bounty) and the phez hunting went from okay to great! Could there be a bounty in UT? If there was would it make a difference?


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> It is a rare instance for me to see a raven except at Lake Powell.


I see them everywhere, every trip. Just look up.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Gumbo said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> > It is a rare instance for me to see a raven except at Lake Powell.
> ...


simply have not noticed, I will pay more attention.



Lefty said:


> I hunt phez in MT. They don't have a **** problem but they do have problems with coyotes and foxes. In some parts of the state the fish and game control them; shoot them from helicopters if they get too thick. When they do that the hunting improves. Why can't our fish and game do something like that? Couldn't they take an active role in controlling the problem or at least provide some leadership?
> 
> Another friend of mine who lives on a indian res in MT said that a local killed 400 foxes last year (he gets a bounty) and the phez hunting went from okay to great! Could there be a bounty in UT? If there was would it make a difference?


There are bounties off and on by certain counties, I know Tooele had one at one point, not certain if it is still valid.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Bounty? WHo pays it? That is the problem... Where does the money come from?


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## str8shtr (Jul 4, 2008)

I was born and raised in Hooper so I know a little about this. Yes the *****,foxes,skunks,skunks, and feral cats take there share but the biggest problem I see in that area is all the subdivisions most of the areas I used to hunt are covered with houses. Face it people kill all the predators in weber county but the phez will never be back like they used to.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

str8shtr said:


> I was born and raised in Hooper so I know a little about this. Yes the *****,foxes,skunks,skunks, and feral cats take there share but the biggest problem I see in that area is all the subdivisions most of the areas I used to hunt are covered with houses. Face it people kill all the predators in weber county but the phez will never be back like they used to.


I hear that often but the two areas that I have hunted in Duchesne and Box Elder Counties are nearly identical from 30 years ago and the birds are gone, only major change is that of the *****.


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## str8shtr (Jul 4, 2008)

Yes I understand I can only speak for my area and predators are a huge problem. But what do we do pheasants do not create the huge revenue that trophy elk do . I am all for creating some kind of association to take this matter up. I have personally passed up a few shots just because I couldnt bring myself to shoot a rooster that my had been eating out of my horses manger during the year.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm with you Huge. I'd love to hunt *****. If anyone wants to take a bowhunter on a **** hunt, I'd go any night of the week. Gotta kill something besides fish with my hunting bow. :twisted: I'm all about small game so if anyone wants to give me a legit headsup on **** infested areas that I can walk with my bow, shoot me a PM and I'll go do my part to put a few down. Goes for skunks and foxes too.... I won't shoot yotes. I've been told by too many folks that for the few birds they take down, they take way more small predators so its better to leave em. :?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> I've been told by too many folks that for the few birds they take down, they take way more small predators so its better to leave em. :?


I heard that too by a guy on here doing research about that, makes sense on the surface I think. I learned this last night after I watched "Where the Red Fern Grows" to get a little edumacated about the sport; I then read the furbearer guidebook and learned the following:


> (b) "Protected wildlife" does not include coyote, field mouse, gopher, ground squirrel,
> jackrabbit, muskrat, and raccoon.





> (4) Spotlighting may be used to hunt coyote, red
> fox, striped skunk, or raccoon where allowed by
> a county ordinance enacted pursuant to Section
> 23-13-17.
> ...


So, you need to use grandpa's lantern in the movie or a gun mounted one or I guess just any light not from a vehicle (including ATV's I would assume), not to mention clearing that each county allows such spotlighting. 
I am sincerely intrigued, may do some over Thanksgiving if it is allowed in Carbon; does anyone know or I guess I just call the Sheriff??


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## guner (Sep 25, 2007)

Take up a collection and offer up bounties... foxes,***** or subdivisions ? :lol:


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## stick_man (Sep 10, 2007)

Huge, last I had heard, you need to clear it with the sherriff. Most don't like the idea of spotlighting, but I heard Juab and Tooele counties are pretty reasonable about allowing it around here. You can buy hand held spotlights now with upwards of 1million candlepower for just a few bucks. Throw a red lens on it and you have a great night hunting light.

Also, when trapping skunks, I have found the foot-pedal type cage traps that are made out of sheet metal to work great. The skunks can't see out of them, so they won't spray. A few years ago, I was trapping them off of my back porch. I was able to pick the cage up, throw it in the back of the truck, and take them off to a nearby river. When you dunk them, if they fight, they are a cat. If there is no fight, you have a skunk. Either way... :twisted: Use peanut butter as a bait and you won't be as likely to catch cats. I found tunafish or meats would catch cats every once in a while, but never caught a cat with peanut butter. In my opinion, it works better than fish.


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## TRDHUNTER (Sep 11, 2007)

I know some guys with lion and bear dogs train them on *****.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

stick_man said:


> Huge, last I had heard, you need to clear it with the sherriff. Most don't like the idea of spotlighting, but I heard Juab and Tooele counties are pretty reasonable about allowing it around here. You can buy hand held spotlights now with upwards of 1million candlepower for just a few bucks. Throw a red lens on it and you have a great night hunting light.
> 
> Also, when trapping skunks, I have found the foot-pedal type cage traps that are made out of sheet metal to work great. The skunks can't see out of them, so they won't spray. A few years ago, I was trapping them off of my back porch. I was able to pick the cage up, throw it in the back of the truck, and take them off to a nearby river. When you dunk them, if they fight, they are a cat. If there is no fight, you have a skunk. Either way... :twisted: Use peanut butter as a bait and you won't be as likely to catch cats. I found tunafish or meats would catch cats every once in a while, but never caught a cat with peanut butter. In my opinion, it works better than fish.


What is the point of the red lens? Not as detectible? And your sjunk trap has solid sides apparenlty not the hav a heart mesh metal?


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## stick_man (Sep 10, 2007)

The red lens doesn't seem to spook them as much as a white light. Not sure exactly all the reasons for using them, just know that they work better than a white one. 

The skunk traps I used to use were borrowed from the city. No they are not the mesh type. I have actually considered making a couple of them, could probably do each one for less than $30 or so. The door on them is basically the guillotene (sp?) type, triggered by applying pressure on the plate (foot pedal) inside. If you happen to make one, make sure the door drops down enough that the little beasts can't get their paws and claws underneath or they will escape. It seems like the cage itself was about 15"x15"x30". I may be off on the measurements by an inch or so, but not by much.


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## huntress (Sep 10, 2007)

Out at our duck club we have been traping ***** for the last 4 years Phez population has tripled!!!! The total **** kill on our club was 29 last year ( with a bonus round of 7 skunks )and 11 so far this year( And 1 skunk )all 11 have been shot while we have been hunting 
JUST POP EM AND DROP EM It's a start


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> What is the point of the red lens? Not as detectible? And your sjunk trap has solid sides apparenlty not the hav a heart mesh metal?


The red lense also helps YOUR night vision. Shades of red and green light do less to disturb your night vision and leave you with those little dots in your eyes than white, yellow or blue light does.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

if anyone on here has predators on thier land that they want shot, I would be happy to do it. the closer to orem the better, but my buddies and I love to hunt foxes and coyotes.


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

Conibear traps work very well on *****. You don't need to be bothered with killing the critter, the trap does it. I just dig a hole about two feet deep into a bank, then put some sardines in the back of the hole and set the trap at the entrance. Of course the conibear is not species selective. You may get anything including cats and dogs. That is one advantage of using live traps, you can turn loose anything you don't want to kill. 

When I have a problem skunk, I set a foot trap with the chain attached to a ten or twelve foot stick.
If a skunk gets in the trap, I just lead him to the canal and drown him. I have never had one spray doing this. Of course a skunk will always let loose when he dies, but if its under water you don't get the smell. That is why I don't like to shoot a skunk around the place. They will surely let loose. 

Ya, hunt birds for a week and predators for 51 weeks. Often just at dusk, the racoons will come out and start to hunt. If you are along the creek at this time you may get a shot at one. I have got many a **** while fishing at dusk. I carry a six shooter fishing. I guess you can get a **** hound and night hunt them. This may be more fun than hunting pheasants with a dog. You are always looking for hunting opportunities, RIGHT?

If you are going to use foot traps, get the number three traps for racoon. 

You should also read the trapping laws so you don't get in hot water with the warden. 

Nothing you can do about the ravens and, yes, there is a lot of them in the state.


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