# Wild Horses and Burros. "Management"?



## klbzdad

Thoughts? Clearly this is a problem in some parts of the state with deer and elk but very few issues right now are as detrimental as the increases in wild horses every year and the unacceptable numbers that the BLM is "managing". I say, shoot them or sterilize them down to Acceptable Management Levels. That includes the 50,000 being held.

Some of this discussion can be adopted to our ungulate populations in Utah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfNwDWeWUjI#t=706

Here is the complete story with text:

The County Seat TV - Wild Horses and Burros


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## Fishrmn

Sterilizing ANY feral animal is asinine. And nothing but a waste of money. Shoot the **** things. Of course, we're gonna hear from the horse lovers. They'll say that it is barbaric to kill such beautiful creatures.

They're feral horses for cryin' out loud. If they were weeds you'd just spray them with "RoundUp".

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## Mr Muleskinner

I am a horse lover and I say shoot em. They need managed like anything else.


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## Wind In His Hair

The herds of wild mustangs are a beautiful sight for sure, and we have this romantic attachment to them as part of the nostalgia of the Old West, but their populations need to be controlled just like everything else. I do not wish for them to shot and left to rot though, just as I wouldn't want the same from a deer or an elk. There is a lot of meat on a horse, and that could be used to feed people in soup kitchens and such.


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## Dunkem

:deadhorse::hungry:


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## Critter

Put a season on them and sell LE tags. Before you know it you will need 20 or more points to draw a tag. 

My only question is how do you score a horse?


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## brookieguy1

Critter said:


> Put a season on them and sell LE tags. Before you know it you will need 20 or more points to draw a tag.
> 
> My only question is how do you score a horse?


By the length and girth of his...........


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## Wind In His Hair

brookieguy1 said:


> By the length and girth of his...........


Mane? :mullet:


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## riptheirlips

This problem will not be solved as long as the federal government is suppose to be managing the wild horses. Let the states control the herds and problem will be solved. Horses can be sold and shipped to Mexico where they slaughter horses and ship the meat to other countries that enjoy eating horse meat.


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## GaryFish

Last time we discussed this, some horse lover website picked up our discussion through their google-bots and we got flamed over it. Some dude pointed to like "us" as the problem. It was really pretty funny.


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## Fowlmouth

Yep, I guess it's better to see cattle and sheep destroying vegetation on public land, and competing with deer and elk.:?

I'm really not on the other side of the fence on this. All things need to be managed and balanced, but with the horses being federally protected it will be a long battle to get anywhere with this.
Friends and I adopted several of these horses in the past and actually had good experiences with them. They turned out to be some sure footed mountain horses, that's for **** skippy.


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## GaryFish

I adopted a mustang when I was a kid. Got him when he was about 6 months old. The mare never got over her mean streak, but the colt turned into an outstanding horse. Problem is, people just don't use horses nearly as much as they used to. With no natural predators, and limited budgets for rounding them up, and then no one seems to want them any more, it is a problem. You can get one for practically nothing. They can't even give them away. And because of the Wild Horse and Burro Act, the BLM is stuck feeding them until they die. 

My own thought is that if they are not adopted after 18 months or so in BLM holding facilities, then they could sell them at auction for whatever use people would be willing to pay.

My biggest frustration with the horse lover groups is that they have resorted to filing a bunch of law suits against the BLM over horse management. Seems to me if they loved the horses as much as they say they do, they'd quit paying lawyers and buy the horses from the BLM and care for them on their own. You know, putting their wallet where their mouth is kind of thing. But I guess they get more mileage suing BLM over it.


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## wyogoob

Horse meat is very red, looks kinda rare, so it can easily be overcooked.

That's all I have to say about the matter, just got up to pee.


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## klbzdad

I do not support helping Cliven Bundy specifically, because he has been breaking the law for many years and claiming public land is his "ranch" and his "right" to do with as he pleases. However, I do see and understand the reasoning by local county commissioners to send a message to Washington on the wild horse issue using Bundy's case as an example.

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20140401/NEWS01/304010022/County-Commissioners-issue-ultimatum


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## swbuckmaster

Let the utah division of wildlife manage them. If their horse counts come back over objective they'll find away to over harvest them lol. Joke!


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## GaryFish

I'd love to see the horse lover groups putting money to range improvements to better support the horses, much the same sportsmen do for big game. But that's just me.


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## fishreaper

I've always wanted to take a Zebra, but who knows when that'll happen. Wild horses seem like the next best thing. I do understand the sympathy for the wild horse though. There was a time where you could beat your wife but not your horse. (or so the saying goes)


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## Fishrmn

Fowlmouth said:


> Yep, I guess it's better to see cattle and sheep destroying vegetation on public land, and competing with deer and elk.:?


No doubt that cattle and sheep can be destructive. But they aren't protected, aren't supposed to be on the range year round, and they do serve a purpose. i.e. wool from sheep, beef from cattle. And while the user fees probably don't begin to pay for the damage caused by livestock, they aren't nearly the financial burden that the wild horses are.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## swbuckmaster

Id shoot and eat a horse. I mean its got a be better than mung mung I ate the other day


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## riptheirlips

Charge one hundred dollars for a depredation tag on the horses in that area. There will be hundreds of people buy a tag and put the horse meat to good use. Problem solved. Quit worrying about the tree huggers and get the horse numbers reduce.


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## Wind In His Hair

Horse wouldn't be any stranger than a lot of other foods that I have eaten. Actually, not very strange at all when you get to thinking about it. They're a four-legged, hoofed mammal that graze. How is horse meat much different than that of a cow, sheep, goat, deer, elk, moose, etc.?


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## Mr Muleskinner

it's not. I've had it before in parts of Europe and Turkey. If I had to describe it I would say that it is a cross between beef and venison. I was at a large celebration and it was prepared over an open fire. Far more tender than I thought it would be. I would not hesitate to eat it again.


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## Dunkem

Mr Muleskinner said:


> it's not. I've had it before in parts of Europe and Turkey. If I had to describe it I would say that it is a cross between beef and venison. I was at a large celebration and it was prepared over an open fire. Far more tender than I thought it would be. I would not hesitate to eat it again.


More tender than mule? Joke,Ive had it and thought it was ok,but what I had was way overcooked,No fat and very dry.Cooked right and I think it would be fine.


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## Mr Muleskinner

It is pretty lean. A mule would be far too lean to eat I think. Half donkey and donks are nothing but muscle and bone. Tough as nails


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## johnnycake

Personally I love horse, and I think it is extremely similar to elk. I would be more than happy to buy a few tags/year at 100/tag or so.


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## cornerfinder

Ok, soooo let's get a sponsor to help repeal the wild horse and burro act. Oh wait, we live in Utah. Actually Jim Matheson may help. He is on his way out. Any thoughts?


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## riptheirlips

*Government control*

I think this is totally ridiculous. What allows the feds to round up cattle and steal them without trying this guy in a court of law?? What is he guilty of according to the legal court system?? If the feds were doing everything in accordance with the law why would they not allow someone to take pictures? Seems the feds are trying to hide a few things.. Typical federal government.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I read that the family owed over a million $ in back grazing fees and that he was grazing his cattle with no permit. Apparently no permit for the past 25 years.


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## Mr Muleskinner

riptheirlips said:


> I think this is totally ridiculous. What allows the feds to round up cattle and steal them without trying this guy in a court of law?? What is he guilty of according to the legal court system?? If the feds were doing everything in accordance with the law why would they not allow someone to take pictures? Seems the feds are trying to hide a few things.. Typical federal government.


http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=29...pute-between-blm-nevada-rancher&s_cid=queue-1


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## Dukes_Daddy

BLM should sell tags to harvest a nice fat cow or calf. 

Regarding horses and burros the smart option would be to repeal the federal protection and put them under state control.


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## klbzdad

The untagged and unbranded cattle are going to be the only ones removed and auctioned. Those cattle properly branded will be inspected and returned to him with the admonition that if he cuts them loose again that'll end his ownership of them.

Concerning the horses:

Latest on Feral Horses in Iron County, Utah - Fox 13 KSTU

We have to get the horses off that range - The Spectrum

The county will reduce the numbers to the low AML (acceptable management level) which is slightly under what us sportsmen call "objective". Solely determined by capacity in conjunction with wildlife and livestock grazing capacity. Once there, if the BLM fails to maintain, there will likely be a lawsuit.


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## redleg

If someone claimed the horses were his grandfathers and he grazes them on BLM land, the government will round them up and start killing them. They would also destroy waterholes and fences.


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