# What's with all this poaching?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

And have any of them been caught?

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...ard-offered-in-trophy-buck-poaching-case.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...ching-still-a-problem-in-san-juan-county.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...302-well-known-naples-buck-left-to-waste.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...ree-bull-elk-poached-on-moons-ranch-cwmu.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...301-fawn-and-doe-poached-in-cache-county.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...91-mature-elk-taken-from-spike-only-unit.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...l/1297-two-wasted-bucks-in-carbon-county.html

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-n...-future-trophy-bull-killed-on-spike-hunt.html

seems like more than usual, I'm sure plenty goes unnoticed as well.


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## wisconsinvette (May 18, 2013)

Makes me sick.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

While I hope that this is a higher than usual year for poaching, I am glad to see a lot of poaching cases in the news. It's good to see that they are getting attention and that people are keeping an eye out and getting these incidents to the authorities. Makes me sick but I think that it's going on every year and some years no one sees anything. I am also glad to see several of these cases getting to the media right after the incident. Some cases in the past have been almost a month till they have been made public. If I was up driving around somewhere and saw something in passing it would be hard to remember all the details a month later.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

........and hawk poaching even. Some people.------SS


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

A question for those forum members that have been around a generation or two, do you think there is more poaching now than in the old days or not??


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Likely more poaching just because there's a lot more people in the state. I think people are also more willing and better able to report.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I think that there are many more cases of wanton poaching and far less sustenance cases. In other words, greed has far surpassed hunger.------SS


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I agree with Finn. Also I think the hunting media has glamorized huge trophies in order to sell their products so much that it spurs some hunter to poach so they can be cool too.
Just a thought.


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

There seems to be a lot more poaching now than when I was a kid. 

I'm guessing it's mostly kids 17 and under who have been taught by the UDWR and their parents that they are entitled to whatever they want and that the laws that apply to everyone else do not apply to them. 

For example; party hunting.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Overall, I think there is less poaching today. There are three types of poachers, the head hunters after antlers, the thrill killers after a power trip, and the subsistence hunters wanting meat.

Head hunting poaching I suspect is about the same today as it was 40 or 50 years ago. Big buck contests were sponsored by every major sporting goods store and with the right head, you could drive away in a new Jeep.....so there was plenty of incentive to cheat. I even remember my home town conservation officer getting caught and fired for shooting big bucks out of season. So my opinion is that this type of poaching is unchanged.

Subsistence poaching is the type I think is way down today. It seemed like there were 3 or 4 busts every year here locally of guys taking a doe or two out of season. Back in the days before food stamps, venison was a staple food source for many struggling families. In some instances, I think the local warden would even look the other way. But it is not often today you hear the case of someone taking a deer out of season just for the meat.

Thrill killings may be the only type of poaching on the rise. The senseless shooting and leaving without trying to salvage anything from the animal is something I can't remember happening as a kid. I have no explanation for this.

So as outraged as we all are about poaching, I still believe it is less prevalent today than when I was a kid.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> I think that there are many more cases of wanton poaching and far less sustenance cases. In other words, greed has far surpassed hunger.------SS


This. We see more and more people shooting and leaving critters. Not that long ago sneaking one for the freezer wasn't considered a big deal, but this leaving them to rott... its a sign of people with screwed up respect issues. Lack of respect for the land, the animals... other hunters etc.

-DallanC


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

DallanC said:


> This. We see more and more people shooting and leaving critters. Not that long ago sneaking one for the freezer wasn't considered a big deal, but this leaving them to rott... its a sign of people with screwed up respect issues. Lack of respect for the land, the animals... other hunters etc.
> 
> -DallanC


I think that this is the issue. It seems like the poachers are younger and younger, if I remember correctly. I think it could be a symptom of the younger generations more liberal-leaning upbringing. Don't tell the kids no, let them express themselves to be creative, don't let old traditional fools tell you what is right and wrong because there is no such thing, there is only what helps the liberal/progressive movement, and what feels good at the moment, (pot, casual sex, poaching), etc. I may be way off, but I think they are not taught cause and effect and not taught reality, it is just all theory from other brain dead teachers leaving us with people who don't understand how we are all a part of a society and how we contribute. I think the election of the buffoon in the oval office now is a sign of this scary movement. The psycho mass gun killings in recent years mostly fall into this same category, liberal upbringings from broken families. Maybe I am way off, but seems like more than a coincidence and this may be one of the symptoms of the underlying cancerous disease.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Agreed society is as arrogant and feels more entitled with less respect for anything than ever and just getting worse . Poaching now is not done for any benefit , just a quick thrill. I would be glad to see them heavily fined and punished adequately. I would love to be the one to turn them in and get them convicted, poachers are scum to the ethical hunting community, at least the stories are getting broadcast, it would be nice to see some updates with sentencing some day.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Society as a whole has excepted that there is no consequences for our actions. We have people running among us who have Rap sheets pages long, but yet we think some how that they can be rehabed. We are worried more about whether an inmate has cable TV.

I'm sorry but we brought this on ourselves. You want to punish a poacher when we turn loose a person who walks away from his so call buddy dying in the gutter from a drug overdose.

I do think that poaching has increased. Mostly I think it is because when we have something that is in high demand, coupled with the current lack of responsibility/respect, and no or little consequence for our action we have the current trend. I've said it before, even if we started right now, it will take generations to fix, because it is a deeper seated problem then just poaching.


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## vaportrail (Dec 7, 2013)

I usually put the dwr number for the area I will be hunting in my phone before I go. The poaching hotline works as well. 
I've found a couple wasted animals in the last few years. Found a wasted elk this season again- head gone and the rest left to waste. Reported it. 
I don't get it at all.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

It seems to me that many folks on here really get it with this issue. I agree 100% with huge and others. Unfortunately, this trend exposes a problem that is far far worse than the waste of animals that we love. I am a fairly young man and the rate in which society has deteriorated in my lifetime is simply unsustainable. Some thing is going to have to change......and I think it's apparent that the liberal version of change isn't working too well. Parents, grow some fortitude and have the courage to teach your kids right, even if that doesn't correspond with what they learn at school. Screw political correctness, we need moral correctness back.-----SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> There seems to be a lot more poaching now than when I was a kid.
> 
> I'm guessing it's mostly kids 17 and under who have been taught by the UDWR and their parents that they are entitled to whatever they want and that the laws that apply to everyone else do not apply to them.
> 
> For example; party hunting.


I hate party hunting....uh...now that I'm older.......and...uh...well I guess it's OK for ducks, and pheasants...and chukars...and...cottontails...and

nevermind 

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I think it's the banks...they started it...bunch a (#*!%&* Commie poachers.

I have no facts to back that statement up; doesn't matter.

.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

In for a penny...

When I was a kid growing up in central Utah, we were subsistence hunters. (Notice the order of those 2 words...subsistence...hunters.) Poaching for food was an accepted practice. Hell, even if you got caught, the J.P. was your uncle. Mind you, at that time, the government side of things was very different from the Wildlife Board and DWR we have today. Y'all know my take on SFW, but gotta be straight, Don Peay did more to get the hunter's voice in Utah wildlife management than any other single individual. That changed everything.

At the same time, NOBODY wanted to be a poacher. People got their pride, you know?

Poaching for antlers...never heard of it really until the new millennium. You Gen X guys will have to figure that one out because it's beyond me. Cheat to gain a score to get a photo...full blown metrosexual nonsense there.

Poaching for the thrill. Liberals? Really? I think we need to get more serious about these guys because they're walking among us. And our loved ones.

The upside is that we currently have a working partnership between private citizens and our government to address today's cases. Yesterday's gone. I know some of you would rather choke than give the DWR its due, but without the cooperation of the DWR, nothing Don set in motion would have come to anything.


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

Huge29 said:


> I think that this is the issue. It seems like the poachers are younger and younger, if I remember correctly. I think it could be a symptom of the younger generations more liberal-leaning upbringing. Don't tell the kids no, let them express themselves to be creative, don't let old traditional fools tell you what is right and wrong because there is no such thing, there is only what helps the liberal/progressive movement, and what feels good at the moment, (pot, casual sex, poaching), etc. I may be way off, but I think they are not taught cause and effect and not taught reality, it is just all theory from other brain dead teachers leaving us with people who don't understand how we are all a part of a society and how we contribute. I think the election of the buffoon in the oval office now is a sign of this scary movement. The psycho mass gun killings in recent years mostly fall into this same category, liberal upbringings from broken families. Maybe I am way off, but seems like more than a coincidence and this may be one of the symptoms of the underlying cancerous disease.


As long you blame our problems on liberals, brain dead teachers, and buffoons in the oval office things are only going to get worse.

Almost everyone on this forum seems to think that it is a great idea to teach children that they do not have to live by the same rules as everyone else, that they are entitled to special treatment and deserve whatever they want. Then they act shocked when the children think they can do whatever they want including poaching.

The majority on this forum seem to feel it's okay to teach children that they do not have to wait in the big game drawing line like everyone else and that it is okay for them to skip to the head of the line or have someone else wait in line for them.

The majority on this forum seem to feel it's okay to teach children that they do not have to follow that same hunting laws as everyone else and that they can party hunt.

The majority on this forum seem to support the socialist/liberal North American Hunting model that everyone owns the wildlife and are entitled to it.

Entitled, entitled, entitled.

Then they blame the big bad liberal "buggy man" when kids turn out to be lawless brats.

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> As long you blame our problems on liberals, brain dead teachers, and buffoons in the oval office things are only going to get worse.
> 
> The majority on this forum seem to feel it's okay to teach children that they do not have to follow that same hunting laws as everyone else and that they can party hunt.
> 
> ...


LOL, where to start? We are going to have to see if we can change your username to old Cook, I will look into it, j/k. ;-) Supporting a law that changes the law to allow passing of a tag is NOT party hunting! What do you not understand about it? Are you in the media and are of the belief that if you repeat a lie/mistruth/wrong information enough that it inherently becomes true? How can you possibly compare those supporting a law change with those breaking the law? Does that make sense in your world? The law change....never mind, you clearly do not want to understand as you have spewed the same thing on numerous threads, throw in a big word like entitlement and you have a real discussion going, you are a lost cause on this one.

Was the buggy man (Headless Horseman's dad) someone who preceded the boogey man? LOL, sorry I had to. I was just throwing out a possible connection, just a thought, as I said two times, I could be way off. There certainly is a trend of whatever feels good at the moment and it is taught in schools and in homes. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't offend someone fairly regularly :mrgreen:.

Doesn't it seem like a lot of the poachers have been <30? I recall the kids in Tooele area shooting the cow with a field tip a few years ago, falls in the same category to me, they were fairly young. I may not have all of the facts in line as it seems one of the most recent poachers busted were people in their 50's or so.

I am just throwing out some thoughts, that is all, just a public forum for a public discussion, if it offended you, maybe it hit too close to home, but then again, maybe I am way off here.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

That dude is crazy. I'll bet he voted for Obama.


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

Huge29 said:


> Supporting a law that changes the law to allow passing of a tag is NOT party hunting!


Umm... sorry but it IS party hunting. The new law makes party hunting legal under certain conditions but it IS, by definition, party hunting.

I realize I am very unpopular on this forum but I love hunting and hate to see what is happening to it.

Do you really believe that giving children special privileges at the expense of others teaches them the right lesson? Do you honestly believe that all of the codling (note that I did not use the dirty word entitlement) does not contribute to an instant gratification, above the law mentality?

I'm afraid hunting is doomed and it breaks my heart.

One last thing; thanks for catching my spelling error (buggy vs boogey - LOL) and no offence taken or intended.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> Umm... sorry but it IS party hunting. The new law makes party hunting legal under certain conditions but it IS, by definition, party hunting.
> 
> I realize I am very unpopular on this forum but I love hunting and hate to see what is happening to it.
> 
> ...


We may be saying the same thing two different ways and arguing semantics. I am still fairly young and don't claim to know everything, not until next year, at least







. To say what has lead to poaching can certainly be a complicated issue, but to get back to hijacking the thread. Isn't party hunting to fill someone else's tag or two people hunting independently to fill the same tag? I guess it can also be grandma who never leaves the trailer having her tag filled too. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. In the old days, you guys were all entitled to a tag every year and got to hunt all three seasons, wasn't it? It has been so long, I don't even remember now. Now, my son only has a 50% chance of drawing a single tag good for only 8 days, we are talking apples and oranges here.


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

Huge29 said:


> In the old days, you guys were all entitled to a tag every year and got to hunt all three seasons, wasn't it? It has been so long, I don't even remember now. Now, my son only has a 50% chance of drawing a single tag good for only 8 days, we are talking apples and oranges here.


You are absolutely correct.

When I was a kid you could buy a deer tag over the counter at any sporting goods store. It was valid statewide. You could hunt all three seasons. And... here is something I'll bet few on this forum remember; it was either sex. You could harvest either a buck or a doe. Some of my fondest memories are deer camp with the family. What went wrong? It breaks my heart.

The only way I can think to help things is to follow the example of DU and buy up as much habitat as possible but that takes money and every time I bring up the topic of raising hunting prices on this forum I get blasted.

I am all for providing kids with as much opportunity as possible but if only kids are allowed to hunt how do you retain anyone over 17?

I do not understand why people seem to think kids need to hunt trophy animals to develop a love for hunting. When I was a kid I was thrilled just to be able to hunt and get a fork horn or even a spike. Why cant we let the kids hunt the general season and antlerless hunts? This would give them opportunity and actually teach them how to hunt and still leave some opportunity for everyone else.

Speaking of actually teaching kids how to "hunt" instead of taking them out to "kill" a trophy; when I was young, true trophy elk were extremely rare. Harvesting a trophy bull elk meant very hard work, hunting skill, and dedication. If a 300 class bull came off the mountain it would make the front page of the local newspaper. Now days killing a 350+ bull means nothing. It takes no hunting skill or dedication to get a trophy animal anymore all it takes is winning the Utah lottery... (just my opinion). IMHO we should eliminate all of the LE hunts to allow more opportunity.

Anyway, I'm an old man and I'm rambling.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

See, we do agree! That this plan applies to LE and OIL is a major mistake; there will be major abuse and misuse, but I really like how it can apply to the general season. Have a good weekend!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

There were only two seasons, archery and rifle. The didn't start the muzzle loader season until 75 or 76 and it was a muzzle loader/pistol season. But then before that there were late hunts that went well into December and in some areas you could take multiple deer on one tag. And that tag was a metal tag.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Now what was the OP about again?
Oh ya, I see it just as more media coverage. That's all.


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

Critter, had no idea you are a fellow old timer.

I'm sure you are right about the muzzle loader hunts. All I ever hunted was the rifle hunt.

Those were truly the good old days.

What does OP mean? If it is a derogatory explicative because I kind of high jacked the poaching thread and made it about hunting opportunity, I apologize.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

oldTimer said:


> When I was a kid you could buy a deer tag over the counter at any sporting goods store. It was valid statewide. You could hunt all three seasons. And... here is something I'll bet few on this forum remember; it was either sex. You could harvest either a buck or a doe. Some of my fondest memories are deer camp with the family. What went wrong? It breaks my heart.


Wait, 3 Seasons, back then? And just one tag? There wasn't a muzzleloader hunt until later, and even then you were required to buy the $10 extension license. Also, at that point Archery Tags were their own thing, seperate from the rifle tags (but you could have one of each I did... AND I bought the smokepole extension license).

Our memories are much different it seems.

-DallanC


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

oldTimer said:


> Critter, had no idea you are a fellow old timer.
> 
> I'm sure you are right about the muzzle loader hunts. All I ever hunted was the rifle hunt.
> 
> ...


 OP just means Original Poster (original post). It isn't a derogatory explicative exactly, but it is used to try to get us back on track.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

DallanC said:


> Wait, 3 Seasons, back then? And just one tag? There wasn't a muzzleloader hunt until later, and even then you were required to buy the $10 extension license. Also, at that point Archery Tags were their own thing, seperate from the rifle tags (but you could have one of each I did... AND I bought the smokepole extension license).
> 
> Our memories are much different it seems.
> 
> -DallanC


 You're both correct, depending on how far back your memory takes you! There have been a lot of changes back and forth over the years and it seems we're still doing it.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> Now what was the OP about again?
> Oh ya, I see it just as more media coverage. That's all.


There likely is something to that. If you watched the mainstream media regularly you would think that gun violence is at an epidemic level and is completely out of control at a startling trend, but statistics show us that crime is on a long term downward trend over the last 50 years or so. What has increased is the media's sensationalizing the crimes on a regular basis. Poaching may be explained by this also, advances in technology and awareness may just make it seem like it is increasing, whereas it is quite possibly way down from years past.


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