# Remington 700



## sparky00045 (Apr 1, 2008)

There is a good program on CNBC tonight on the remington 700 series gun, and how they will fire, on there own, by only turning off the safty or trying to open the bolt, this is kinda scary, there have been 1000s of complaints and alot of people shot and killed, and remington still says there is no problem, there was even a court case where on the stand, they went throgh the steps and the gun fire in the witness stand, and the judge even seen it, and that guy got 17 million.

JUst a question has anyone on the forum had a remington 700 discharge by turning off the safty ????

The sad part of the program they new of this problem clear back in the 40s, and refused to fix the problem


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

i never have had a problem with mine in any way.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I watched the program and it was very interesting. However, I think that there was a LOT of smoke and little bit of interesting stuff. A company as big as Remington is going to have a lot of complaints period, I bet the Winchester model 70 and the Ruger have their share as well. I believe that there might be some kind of manufacturing problem that can cause this phenomenon in a very small number of guns, but I don't believe for a second that there was a tangible problem that Remington could fix or I believe that they would. The Ex-employee that they interviewed was not very credible sounding to me, and they led the 98 year-old engineer with baited questioning. One BS thing that I noticed was the sniper team guy. If you noticed, he put the rifle on safety and then reached down and pulled hard on the trigger in the safe position. Then when the safety was pushed to the forward position, the gun fired.I have seen this occur when Remington factory triggers are adjusted incorrectly. I would be willing to bet alot of money that their armor was not as competent as he thinks and that the trigger seer contact or travel adjustments were simply mis-adjusted. BOTTOM LINE.......Never point your rifle at anyone at any time. I think that there have been a few real problems, and alot of people who simply screwed up and shot someone and don't want to take responsibility for it. If we do what we should, our rifles fireing upon safety release should never hurt anyone because we have our muzzle under control. If you have a Model 700 and are worried because of this propaganda, take it to a gunsmith and have one of the several great aftermarket triggers installed that are a completely different design. I have had over 10 of these rifles and have probably shot over 15000 rounds through various Model 700's without any problems.---------SS


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I currently own 2 Model 700's. Never a problem. But that isn't to say there isn't a problem. I remember Chinese SKS's going full auto a few years back. And as a child in Hunter Safety Class in Calif. in 1958 the instructor had a .22 rifle that when he played with the safety the gun would go off. Of course needless to say the point of the lesson is always point your weapon in a safe direction.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm sitting here looking at a trigger asembly that I took off my 6mm Rem. I can't for the life of me see how it could go off in the safe position or by pushing it forward. I guess I'll have to stare at it a while longer.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Its interesting that they have had problems with the model 700 since the '40s...............especially since it was introduced in 1962.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> Its interesting that they have had problems with the model 700 since the '40s...............especially since it was introduced in 1962.


lol. thats funny. I've never had any problems with my 700's. Once upon a time I saw a Ruger M77 fire when the bolt was being closed. The dudes finger was NOWHERE NEAR the trigger. I had the fine experience of a Rossi 357 lever action discharge as I was closing the lever on it. And I've heard numerous stories about a Llama 1911 going full auto on some poor sucker. but never any problems with a remmy.

Gee


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

The thing that caught my attention most was at the end of the show. They mentioned the parent company of Remington was going public in the stock market very soon. Why would you wait until just now to put the story on national television? Almost seemed like a smear campaign to me.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> Its interesting that they have had problems with the model 700 since the '40s...............especially since it was introduced in 1962.


Yep. That's the first thing I thought of too. But I think the statement was taken out of context. Many of these news scripts are written by people with little gun savy. I'm sure they mean the 700-style of rifle, 721, 722, and the 725. The 721 came out in the 40s I believe.

I own, and/or have owned, a number of 700s. Never had them go off by releasing the safety in the field. Although I did have a custom made 30-06 with a mauser action that would fire when the safety was released. The first time it accidently went off was on a nice Missouri whitetail I jumped along a brushy fenceline. But the gun was stolen before I had a chance to study it or have a gunsmith check it out.

I have re-adjusted, or installed new triggers on my 700s. I write down the number of turns each screw is turned and keep it on record. And then If I sell one I put it back to factory. I think you can puposely make a 700 fire by releasing the safety if you back the trigger engagement screw (rear screw) out too far. I'm on the road or I would try it. Maybe longbow could try his.

This isn't something new. I've heard about this "issue" before.

I didn't see the TV show.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

I own a 700 and have never had a problem with it. I believe the manufacture date was early 70's.

A buddy of mine said his fathers 700 would fire by releasing the safety. I never witnessed it happen and maybe the real story was they heard the rumors and it _may_ fire with the safety.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

Remington released this web-page in response to CNBCs "smear" attempt.
http://m.remington700.tv/

Pretty obvious what CNBC was trying to do here.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Between me and my wife we have 5 M700's, never had a problem with any of them.


-DallanC


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

I have spent more time behind a Remington 700 than any other rifle. I own several, and I have shot countless number of individual rifles in various ages and calibers. Most of my family and friends own them too. I have never encountered this "problem" nor have I ever heard any mention of it before just now. Obviously I didn't see the show, but I am calling *MAJOR BS* on this one!


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

This might shed a little more light on the subject:
http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews/VideoM ... hauble.xml

Copy and paste it on the browser.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I have, just for experement reasons, adjusted a trigger so the sear was on the edge of breaking and it would fire upon closing the bolt. But, I had the trigger way too light and the sear engagement right on the edge. I put it back where it was and never had any problems. But I'm sure if any 700 I've ever owned with a factory-set trigger would be completely safe. I've never had one fire when I took the safety off.
Being that triggers are blamed quite often for malfuntions and seeing how anxcious some people are to sue, I would think any gun company that has ever had any problems with thier triggers would be all over it in a heartbeat. Lawsuits and/or a bad repretation would put a company under real fast.


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## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

I think the Remington website put it perfectly. "Agenda Driven Journalism"


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## sparky00045 (Apr 1, 2008)

I see people are turning this in a polical thing which it is not, this is a matter safety, a lady who has hunted all her life, was unloading her gun and it goes off shot through a horse trailor and killes her son,

The army even had vidio of there snippers whos gunns would fire on there own, this isn't a joke or polical, this is a defeat in a gun, and the 700 was first brought in in the forty too.

One thing they did say, they did quietly replaced the trigger and safety about 1982, so the problem guns are biult before 1982, they had to do it queitly or they would look like they admit there was a problem.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Sparky, don't believe everything you watch on tv, then mis-understand. You can make any rifle unsafe by mis-adjusting components in an adjustable trigger. I feel really bad for the lady who shot her son, and if denial gets her through life, then so be it, but lets not get carried away here. That was a gun handling failure first, then possibly a mechanical failure. There are several of us on here that have enough REAL EXPERIENCE with these rifles to tell you the truth. Oh... and by the way, the only change Remington made was to allow the bolt to be opened in the safe position wich really has nothing to so with the alleged problem, but is a better design for sure. Furthermore, the 700 did not come out in the 40's, but it's predecessor, the 721-722 came out then. Lastly, the design in question is absolutly still available for purchase in new 2010 model 700's because it is a good, safe design. Don't be so quick to drink the koolaid dude. CNBC should be called BTBS for BIG TIME BS.----------SS


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

According to this data from Remington, the model 700 was introduced in 1962. The model 720 was produces in 1941-42, and the 721 & 722 were produced from 1948-1961. Let's not forget about the model 725 (I'll bet'goob has 12 of each) that was a deluxe version of the 721 or 722. By the way, one of the major differences between the 700 series and its predecessors was its trigger.
http://www.remington.com/products/archi ... dates.aspx


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm not saying there wasn't a possibility of an accident, but in the show when the woman was holding the gun she held it with her finger on the trigger the entire time. Also, the fellow who is the "firearm guru" had his bolt closed and his finger on the trigger the entire time as well...these are either bad habits by a sportsman, or a person that really isn't safe while handling a firearm.

I would dare bet many of the cases that come from this are the urban commando's who have no place in adjusting the mechanisms of a rifle trying to push them to the limit. If there were really that many problems would the US army be "re-upping" their contract for the 700 action?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's a bit of advice for Sparky: Don't believe everything you hear from the media. Just because it is on TV doesn't make it real.

Have you ever owned a Remington 700? 

I have. And the only time that have had any problems with the trigger was when some idiot got too close to the trigger mechanism with a small screwdriver. If you reduce the sear engagement too much, or lighten the trigger return spring too much, then these things will happen. If you get bedding epoxy in the trigger housing then things don't work too well, either.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I once mis-adjusted ones trigger to the point that it would "fire" when you took off the safety or slammed the bolt closed. Of Course I had the good sense to test it with a snap cap before putting live ammo in her. A little bit of re-adjustment cured that guns problem, she is still in my vault, and has never again misfired.

There ain't anything wrong the model 700 unless someone does what I did and does not correct the problem.

It plain to see this is just a last ditch attempt by the anti-gun lobby to ban the guns by forcing the companies out of business with frivolous lawsuits.
That lady killing her son is not the weapons fault, its hers for violating basic safety rules.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

sparky00045 said:


> IThe army even had vidio of there snippers whos gunns would fire on there own, this isn't a joke or polical, this is a defeat in a gun, and the 700 was first brought in in the forty too..


 :lol: Those army snipers, for that fact most any sniper or target shooters, prefer their triggers pull weight adjusted down next to nothing, that's why they go off, too light of a pull coupled with improper sear engagement, will almost always cause this problem. Also if you don't lock the adjustment screws after messing with them, you can shoot a gun enough to back jar them loose, which can be dangerous as hell. I oughta know I shot the competitive circuit for a while in the 90's, used several custom 700's too, never had a lick of trouble with them going off on their own.

And the 700 was in fact rolled out in 1962, only a **** fool believes the media without checking the facts for yourself, they are not your friend.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> According to this data from Remington, the model 700 was introduced in 1962. The model 720 was produces in 1941-42, and the 721 & 722 were produced from 1948-1961. Let's not forget about the model 725 (I'll bet'goob has 12 of each) that was a deluxe version of the 721 or 722. By the way, one of the major differences between the 700 series and its predecessors was its trigger.
> http://www.remington.com/products/archi ... dates.aspx


:shock:

720? Don't have one of those.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

****,'goob, that's two that you don't have. Or did you go out and buy a 280 by now?


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## sparky00045 (Apr 1, 2008)

I didn;t mean to create a polical outcry, i was just wondering if this had happened to anyone on this forum .

I own a rem 700 30/06 pre 1980 and i haven't had any problems with mine so i was just asking if anyone else had ever had a miss fire.

I don't belive they would have got 1000s of complaints of miss fires if there wasn't something happening.

I started this as just a warning to anyone with an older 700 model not to start a polical war.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

I watched the show and have to admit, I had some concerns. I own 700s and my family has 700s. Common sense says to me that after reviewing all the years we have used 700s, reviewing some of the great comments on here, and reviewing the information from remingtons web site, that those concerns were baseless. What CNBC did was nothing more than shameful.

What I did get out of this whole mess was two things. Remember to always take great care of your firearm and remember to always point your firearm in a safe direction. Both of which are great reminders in our hurried lives.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

sparky00045 said:


> I didn;t mean to create a polical outcry, i was just wondering if this had happened to anyone on this forum .
> 
> I own a rem 700 30/06 pre 1980 and i haven't had any problems with mine so i was just asking if anyone else had ever had a miss fire.
> 
> ...


I don't believe they have gotten 1000s of complaints. I don't believe there were any issues that didn't involve operator error or equipment misuse. Its like complaining to GM that your truck crashed after you and your buddies installed a home made lift kit and off road suspension system that you built from scratch in your high school shop class.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Remington has sold 5 million Model 700s. There are 75 lawsuits. Really, if you do the math, that is an extremely low figure. Obviously, dirt, rust, adjustment to low, failure to LocTite the adjustment screws after adjustment (Remington used some type of LocTite on the trigger from the factory in recent times) - all could mechanically contribute to the problem. The 1982 change to eliminate the bolt lock so you can put it on safety was a good move (_Ruger did the same on their M77 around the same time_) But I would say the odds are astronomically good that a properly maintained and adjusted 700 trigger is safe.

I have two 1970's vintage Rem 700s, neither has ever had an issue with this, so I am not worried and will continue to use them. That is my vote on the subject.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

[quote="Mojo1 Those army snipers, for that fact most any sniper or target shooters, prefer their triggers pull weight adjusted down next to nothing, that's why they go off, too light of a pull coupled with improper sear engagement, will almost always cause this problem. [/quote]

Not nessacerily. Maybe the Army is different but the Air Force snipers that taught our classes all had 3# triggers, most were Rem700 in 308 and300mag. I remember this because we had a segment on adjusting and cleaning trigger mechanisms. I also remember they harped on proper creep more than pounds of pull.

I have a friend/gunsmith Shawn Carlock. He's a retired sniper, teaches police snipers, pistol classes and longrange hunting classes. Here's what he has to say:

"It seems that the focus has been on the safety of the firearm itself. I have had to "repair" many of these for the firing when the safety is disengaged issue. Of all I have seen like this the cause was one of a couple of issues.
1. The trigger was improperly adjsuted (most common)
2. Trigger assy was full of gummy residue from cleaning without a bore guide causing some parts to stick."

Number 2 got me thinking, how many run-of-the-mill hunters even think about that? Probably not many.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> [quote="Mojo1 Those army snipers, for that fact most any sniper or target shooters, prefer their triggers pull weight adjusted down next to nothing, that's why they go off, too light of a pull coupled with improper sear engagement, will almost always cause this problem.


Not nessacerily. Maybe the Army is different but the Air Force snipers that taught our classes all had 3# triggers, most were Rem700 in 308 and300mag. I remember this because we had a segment on adjusting and cleaning trigger mechanisms. I also remember they harped on proper creep more than pounds of pull.

I have a friend/gunsmith Shawn Carlock. He's a retired sniper, teaches police snipers, pistol classes and longrange hunting classes. Here's what he has to say:

"It seems that the focus has been on the safety of the firearm itself. I have had to "repair" many of these for the firing when the safety is disengaged issue. Of all I have seen like this the cause was one of a couple of issues.
1. The trigger was improperly adjsuted (most common)
2. Trigger assy was full of gummy residue from cleaning without a bore guide causing some parts to stick."

Number 2 got me thinking, how many run-of-the-mill hunters even think about that? Probably not many.[/quote]

Good point(s) Creep is as, or more, important than trigger pull weight. A 3# pull on a 700 trigger is fine, safe. Factory these days is up around 9#s!! Many, including myself, find anything under 3# on the 700 trigger to be inconsistant. If I want something lighter I put in a different model trigger assembly like a Timney.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Huntoholic said:


> What I did get out of this whole mess was two things. Remember to always take great care of your firearm and remember to always point your firearm in a safe direction. Both of which are great reminders in our hurried lives.


Truer words have never been spoken. A very good reminder in deed, Huntoholic. Ironically, these things are clearly printed in the Remington owner's manuals. I'd put good money that a very large percentage of those 75 lawsuits either didn't read the manual at all ,or chose to ignore what was printed. Since my first Remington when I was 12 to my most recent Remington purchase this year, every type and model I own have the same 10 Commandments printed in the owners manual:

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/10-commandments.aspx

I would encourage everyone to read the manual before you shoot, no matter what make or model it is. Reread it from time to time to refresh your memory too. Heck, keep copies in the bathroom if it helps. If you have lost the manual or purchased a used gun without one, do yourself a favor and get one. A lot of companies will send you one for free, and they are usually available to view online too.


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## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

http://tinyurl.com/33hjwkr

David Petzal is about as knowledgeable as they come. He pretty much reiterates what's been said here.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

My dad has a 700 that has fired for no reason a couple times. One time was closing the bolt.

They are sketchy, always be aware of your barrel. I personnaly wouldn't carry a 700 with one in the chamber.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

longbow said:


> [quote="Mojo1 Those army snipers, for that fact most any sniper or target shooters, prefer their triggers pull weight adjusted down next to nothing, that's why they go off, too light of a pull coupled with improper sear engagement, will almost always cause this problem.


Not nessacerily. Maybe the Army is different but the Air Force snipers that taught our classes all had 3# triggers, most were Rem700 in 308 and300mag. I remember this because we had a segment on adjusting and cleaning trigger mechanisms. I also remember they harped on proper creep more than pounds of pull.

I have a friend/gunsmith Shawn Carlock. He's a retired sniper, teaches police snipers, pistol classes and longrange hunting classes. Here's what he has to say:

"It seems that the focus has been on the safety of the firearm itself. I have had to "repair" many of these for the firing when the safety is disengaged issue. Of all I have seen like this the cause was one of a couple of issues.
1. The trigger was improperly adjsuted (most common)
2. Trigger assy was full of gummy residue from cleaning without a bore guide causing some parts to stick."

Number 2 got me thinking, how many run-of-the-mill hunters even think about that? Probably not many.[/quote]

Yeah I was talking about number one, I saw it happen a lot, hell I've done it, the trick is to be aware to check for it after making adjustments. You would be surprised the number who don't.

I could defiantly buy stock in number 2, I've cleaned enough target triggers that were gummed up to buy in on that.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

torowy said:


> My dad has a 700 that has fired for no reason a couple times. One time was closing the bolt.
> 
> They are sketchy, always be aware of your barrel. I personnaly wouldn't carry a 700 with one in the chamber.


Who adjusted his trigger? And I'll bet that his finger snuck its way into the trigger guard as he closed the bolt. Had that happen to me, too.


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## flyfisher117 (Jun 29, 2009)

Al Hansen said:


> Of course needless to say the point of the lesson is always point your weapon in a safe direction.


bam right there even if someone was shot Remington cant be blamed at full. like the kid on the show that got shot through the horse trailer... i instantly saw to faults made by the mother. 1: why was a shell in the chamber in the firstplace? i dont have a shell in the chamber unless i am ready to shoot. 2: always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction even though she didnt anticipate her son running around the trailer the gun still wasnt point in a safe direction


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

I never had any problem with mine. My son has it now. He has had no problem that I know of. 
I bought it used in 1979. I had the trigger set to 48 oz by a gunsmith.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

torowy said:


> My dad has a 700 that has fired for no reason a couple times. One time was closing the bolt.
> 
> They are sketchy, always be aware of your barrel. I personnaly wouldn't carry a 700 with one in the chamber.


If he hasn't made any adjustments to the gun, then you need to call Remington to have them look at it. Call their customer service and they are more than happy to check it out.


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## new2this (Nov 23, 2009)

I saw the show..

I have to admit, that there were a couple of things that struck out at me..

That old engineer.. he never would admit that his trigger design was bad... which is typical of an engineer..

That other old employee.. the chain smoker.. absolutely no credibility whatsoever..

That being said, my father when he passed away, gave his old 700ADL .270 to my son, and I now will be replacing the trigger.

I have taught my son proper gun handling since before he was shooting bb guns.. but, TO ME, it's just not worth the worry.

Of course, you always want to have the gun pointed in the right direction.. of course.. however, you NEVER want unintended mechanical issues to happen either, especially with a gun.. therefore, weighing out the pros cons and consequences, I have decided to just take out the trigger and replace it.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What are you going to replace it with?


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## new2this (Nov 23, 2009)

I will be replacing it with the Remington X Mark Pro trigger..

From what I've been able to find, it looks like they are about $75..

Money well spent in my opinion.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

After looking at these pics, it looks like all they did was move the trigger return spring from the inside of the housing to the outside, and made it externally adjustable. And it sounds like they glued in the sear and over-travel adjustments. I'm not sure that it improves in any way on the original.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... earch=true


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