# Scofield Closed



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Another algae bloom has closed Scofield.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Move along, nothing to see here, human caused global warming is a hoax...>>O


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

So how much phosphates are going into scofield from homes and farms runoff, how many sewer plants are there dumping raw or barely treated sewage into scofield.....Once you understand algae you realize this has been going on since the dawn of time. But hey it's always better to blame it on humans because that's what uninformed people do. And this summer in Utah hasn't been even close to being a record breaker for heat either.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

True... it isn't all warming... we should focus on the pollutants too... but just because there is plenty of blame to pass around, doesn't mean we should ignore the elephant in the room. 

Also, I don't think there are any sewer plants that empty into Scofield (probably plenty out-of-date septics though). There isn't any agriculture to speak of that high either. 

So you don't blame the humans?


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Once you understand algae you realize this has been going on since the dawn of time.


No- it has not. Scofield reservoir has not become toxic "since the dawn of time!" This is a new phenomenon. I honestly cannot understand how anyone who frequents this site isn't seriously freaked out and motivated to do more... not just dismiss it as something that has always happened.

I mean, seriously, "The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources reported a significant fish kill associated with the blue-green algae Aug. 27 and impacted water fowl. The agency estimates the fish kill to be in the thousands."

Also, June temps were 7 degrees warmer than average... and I have to think August is going to be near record warm. Weather is not climate... but at some point...?

And before you criticize me too much... I took the bus to work for the first time ever this week... it's a small step. But a step.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I thought I heard that this will be the warmest and could possibly be the driest summer on record. I think Eubank on KSL said this


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Trooper said:


> No- it has not. Scofield reservoir has not become toxic "since the dawn of time!" This is a new phenomenon. I honestly cannot understand how anyone who frequents this site isn't seriously freaked out and motivated to do more... not just dismiss it as something that has always happened.
> 
> I mean, seriously, "The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources reported a significant fish kill associated with the blue-green algae Aug. 27 and impacted water fowl. The agency estimates the fish kill to be in the thousands."
> 
> ...


Algae has been going on since the dawn of time and that my friend is an indisputable fact. Algae is commonly spread by a multitude of ways one of which is "waterfowl". Ducks, geese, shore birds, sea gulls all can and DO transport algae from one area to another. I live on the shores of Utah lake and have been monitoring the algae issues for 2 years now and there has yet to be a fish kill or waterfowl kill on the lake. Fish kills from algae are actually usually due to lack of oxygen in the water because of the algae not toxicity of the algae itself.

I would love to see how many "impacted" waterfowl there were and what the results of necropsies were as well.

As for man made global warming....whatever....the global temps have been going down not up and if you look at every single prediction made about the hype of global warming, well everyone has fallen flat and not happened. Unless of course the east coast of the US is under water and no one is reporting on it. But hey just remember this. Before man came along and ruined the planet Utah was a tropical paradise, ocean and was also covered by over a mile thick sheet of ice....so what is Utah supposed to be? When you can answer THAT question then we can BEGIN to have a meaningful discussion about the global warming hoax.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Brookie said:


> I thought I heard that this will be the warmest and could possibly be the driest summer on record. I think Eubank on KSL said this


Well I disagree with him greatly. I've only lived here 25 years and can easily remember at least half a dozen summers where it was hotter and drier. I remember one summer of 21 straight days of 100 or higher temps (my vehicle AC was not working that is how I remember it so vividly) and I also remember one summer of not getting a drop of precipitation for 3 months. At my home it's hit 100 degrees maybe 4 times and I have had rain numerous times this summer.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

SCOFIELD not Utah Lake. It's not always about you.

Also, show me how global temps are going down?

Here's NASA saying they are going up... at a faster and faster pace. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Oh... I'm sorry... I didn't realize LL "remembered" hotter summers. Science!

(At my house, we had 14 days of 100 plus- Just in July.)

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/salt-lake-city-ut/84101/july-weather/331216


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Thank god for global warming... otherwise the USA would still be buried under a sheet of ice several miles thick from the last Ice age.


-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Trooper said:


> SCOFIELD not Utah Lake. It's not always about you.
> 
> Also, show me how global temps are going down?
> 
> Here's NASA saying they are going up... at a faster and faster pace. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt


You cant pick and choose what data points you want to concentrate on, take them all or none. Here's a fun one from NASA that everyone seems to ignore:

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses

Antarctica has been growing its ice sheets at record pace, in fact its now the largest its ever been in history.

Its just planetary change people... the center of the earth is Molten. We float around on a crazy thin crust over thousand degree molten rock... and complain one years rainier / dryer than other years.

The great George Carlin summed up things better than I ever could, this is well worth the 7 minute watch:






-DallanC


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

A few things need to come together for a large-scale algae bloom to occur:

1) Sufficient Temperature
2) Nutrients present in sufficient *concentration*

Note that concentration is the important word here. Nutrients themselves are a necessary and important part of the ecosystem. It's only when they are present in high concentrations that bad things happen. I'll have to do some more digging to find out why Scofield is oxygen-impaired. If not for treated wastewater or agricultural practices, the only thing that comes to mind right away is cattle ranching.

The low water at Scofield is playing a big role in the concentration of nutrients. You can view and analyze historic elevation and storage data for Scofield here, if you're curious:

http://www.usbr.gov/rsvrWater/faces/rvrOSMP.xhtml;jsessionid=O9oNy9HZPQZcIWv5W2-vtRA-.wf82:rsvrwater

Note that the potential for Scofield to store 70,000 Acre-feet of water exists. Right now, it's hovering at about 12,000 Acre-feet. if it were full right now, the concentration of nutrients in the reservoir would be over 5 times lower than it is now, and we probably wouldn't be seeing this problem.

That's where the discussion of climate change comes into play. If we continue to see lower snowpack and higher temperatures, then we can expect our lakes and reservoirs to get lower, we can expect to see pollutants in our reservoirs in higher concentrations, and we can expect algae blooms to happen more often.

Did the heat alone do this to Scofield? Absolutely not. Has climate change played a role? I'm not qualified to say. Will climate change play a role in the future? Absolutely, if we continue down the road we're on.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Until someone, anyone can tell me what exactly the "climate" is "supposed" to be in Utah then any climate (aka global warming) discussion is meaningless. Tell me with any degree of certainty what the climate here in Utah should be. Should it be desert, ocean, tropical oasis or covered with a sheet of ice thousands of feet thick...PLEASE JUST TELL ME!!!! That is the one question I have posed to every person who buys into this man made global warming crap and that is the one question that NO ONE even the climate scientists will ever answer....


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

DallanC said:


> You cant pick and choose what data points you want to concentrate on, take them all or none. Here's a fun one from NASA that everyone seems to ignore:
> 
> http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses


Nice try- even if antarctic sea ice is growing- that does not imply that global warming isn't also happening. http://http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/151103-antarctic-ice-growing-shrinking-glaciers-climate-change/

I've asked this before on this forum- why are people so dedicated to believing that human pollution isn't causing global warming? What if it's not? What if the whole thing is a hoax? Wouldn't you still want to cut down on pollution? Do you like gagging on your own phlem on hot days and cold? Do you enjoy "haze", "inversion", "fog" and all the other euphemisms?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

LostLouisianian said:


> Until someone, anyone can tell me what exactly the "climate" is "supposed" to be in Utah then any climate (aka global warming) discussion is meaningless. Tell me with any degree of certainty what the climate here in Utah should be. Should it be desert, ocean, tropical oasis or covered with a sheet of ice thousands of feet thick...PLEASE JUST TELL ME!!!! That is the one question I have posed to every person who buys into this man made global warming crap and that is the one question that NO ONE even the climate scientists will ever answer....


"Should" is an extremely subjective word.

We know what the climate has been, what it is now, and where it's going. It's that simple. The real question you need to be asking is how we're going to deal with it.

I don't care whether you think climate change is human-caused or not, but I hope you can acknowledge that changes are occurring and we need to respond.

My personal view is that human-caused carbon emissions are accelerating climate change to some extent (though it's impossible to know what extent), and that it won't hurt to cut down on our carbon emissions. What's there to be afraid of? Cleaner air? A healthier planet? Even if we don't affect climate change much by reducing carbon emissions, we're better for it.


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

Sorry, LL, but I don't think that the answer to your mysterious question is at all pertinent. IF humans are causing global changes that are having negative effects, is the "supposed" to be question even relevant? Hell, if I am having a negative impact on the environment, that is bad. IF all humans are having a negative impact on our climate and that impact is having a negative impact on hunting and fishing...to me, that is bad.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Clarq said:


> A few things need to come together for a large-scale algae bloom to occur:
> 
> 1) Sufficient Temperature
> 2) Nutrients present in sufficient *concentration*
> ...


If anyone will bother to do a little research (and yes I did in college) the primary reason for algal blooms is the water temperatures getting right for the bloom. When the water temps become optimal then algae will bloom. The concentrations of nutrients help determine the length of the bloom. If the water is not the right temp regardless of nutrients the bloom will not occur. How does water get to the right temp, well in about 99% of the cases you can go back and see that the water levels in the body of water with the bloom are much lower than normal, that creates optimum conditions for the water to heat up faster (due to that big old fireball in the sky called the "sun") and create blooms. There is a contributing factor in Utah lake which is the hot springs that pour into the lake 24/7 and the hot springs under the lake that spew hot water 24/7. When the water level is so low that these springs have an effect and the sun heating up shallower water it all contributes to optimal water conditions for a bloom to occur. You can have all the nutrients in the world in the water and if the water temperature isn't warm enough a bloom will NEVER occur hence the reason we don't have algae blooms in the WINTER.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Until someone, anyone can tell me what exactly the "climate" is "supposed" to be in Utah then any climate (aka global warming) discussion is meaningless. Tell me with any degree of certainty what the climate here in Utah should be. Should it be desert, ocean, tropical oasis or covered with a sheet of ice thousands of feet thick...PLEASE JUST TELL ME!!!! That is the one question I have posed to every person who buys into this man made global warming crap and that is the one question that NO ONE even the climate scientists will ever answer....


No problem... Over the course of a human's influence- let's call that four generations, maybe 150 years, the climate should be almost the same as it started. Over the course of the influence of something geologic, say a river, it should change.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Trooper said:


> No problem... Over the course of a human's influence- let's call that four generations, maybe 150 years, the climate should be almost the same as it started. Over the course of the influence of something geologic, say a river, it should change.


And what should Utah's climate be?

You cannot tell if we are going in the right direction or wrong direction until you know what the destination is.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

One of the big problems is all you young uns don't seem to know that these same man made global hucksters 40-50 years ago were telling us that we were heading for an ice age. Don't believe me, then look it up yourselves. We were all going to freeze to death if we didn't do something drastic.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

LostLouisianian said:


> If anyone will bother to do a little research (and yes I did in college) the primary reason for algal blooms is the water temperatures getting right for the bloom. When the water temps become optimal then algae will bloom. The concentrations of nutrients help determine the length of the bloom. If the water is not the right temp regardless of nutrients the bloom will not occur. How does water get to the right temp, well in about 99% of the cases you can go back and see that the water levels in the body of water with the bloom are much lower than normal, that creates optimum conditions for the water to heat up faster (due to that big old fireball in the sky called the "sun") and create blooms. There is a contributing factor in Utah lake which is the hot springs that pour into the lake 24/7 and the hot springs under the lake that spew hot water 24/7. When the water level is so low that these springs have an effect and the sun heating up shallower water it all contributes to optimal water conditions for a bloom to occur. You can have all the nutrients in the world in the water and if the water temperature isn't warm enough a bloom will NEVER occur hence the reason we don't have algae blooms in the WINTER.


So we're in agreement, then? I said that large blooms of this scale require sufficient temperature and sufficient concentration. Both are necessary. If Scofield had high temperatures and low nutrient concentrations, algae would bloom, but not at this scale.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> If anyone will bother to do a little research (and yes I did in college) the primary reason for algal blooms is the water temperatures getting right for the bloom. When the water temps become optimal then algae will bloom. The concentrations of nutrients help determine the length of the bloom. If the water is not the right temp regardless of nutrients the bloom will not occur. How does water get to the right temp, well in about 99% of the cases you can go back and see that the water levels in the body of water with the bloom are much lower than normal, that creates optimum conditions for the water to heat up faster (due to that big old fireball in the sky called the "sun") and create blooms. There is a contributing factor in Utah lake which is the hot springs that pour into the lake 24/7 and the hot springs under the lake that spew hot water 24/7. When the water level is so low that these springs have an effect and the sun heating up shallower water it all contributes to optimal water conditions for a bloom to occur. You can have all the nutrients in the world in the water and if the water temperature isn't warm enough a bloom will NEVER occur hence the reason we don't have algae blooms in the WINTER.


Neat. So why is there a toxic algae bloom in Scofield? Is it because it is HOTTER and DRIER than usual- combined with the pollutants and nutrients? No one is disagreeing with you- what I disagree with is why you aren't alarmed. The earth's climate is certainly changing naturally- but it is also changing because of human influence. It's the second part that is troubling. Might all of Utah one day be under water again? Sure... but in the time it takes humans to evolve into a new species, not in a few hundred (thousand?) years! It strikes me as super lazy that you are essentially arguing that we are just supposed to be cool with dead lakes in Utah because they used to be an ocean.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I am amused by this thread about a MAN MADE lake having odd side effects from potentially other MAN MADE processes.

News flash... we made the lake, had we not, there wouldn't have been a algae bloom.


-DallanC


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

LostLouisianian said:


> One of the big problems is all you young uns don't seem to know that these same man made global hucksters 40-50 years ago were telling us that we were heading for an ice age. Don't believe me, then look it up yourselves. We were all going to freeze to death if we didn't do something drastic.


Sure, let's discount the science we don't like from now until forever because it's been wrong before. That makes perfect sense.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> One of the big problems is all you young uns don't seem to know that these same man made global hucksters 40-50 years ago were telling us that we were heading for an ice age. Don't believe me, then look it up yourselves. We were all going to freeze to death if we didn't do something drastic.


50 years ago they couldn't prevent polio. Science gets better.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I am amused by this thread about a MAN MADE lake having odd side effects from potentially other MAN MADE processes.
> 
> News flash... we made the lake, had we not, there wouldn't have been a algae bloom.
> 
> -DallanC


Scofield's not natural, so there is no need to worry about it? I'm sure the property owners up around there will be glad to hear it!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Causation does not equal correlation?










-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Clarq said:


> So we're in agreement, then? I said that large blooms of this scale require sufficient temperature and sufficient concentration. Both are necessary. If Scofield had high temperatures and low nutrient concentrations, algae would bloom, but not at this scale.


Somewhat. All bodies of water hold nutrients. The nutrient content is not nearly as important as the water temperature. Let me illustrate.....when was the last time you saw an algae bloom in January or February in any Utah lake? Without the correct water temps a bloom will not occur regardless of the nutrient levels.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

That chart doesn't even display any correlation between the global temperature and the number of pirates.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Causation does not equal correlation?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. I ask again. Even if global warming is a lie cooked up HRC herself, why be against the prevention measures? I see nothing but good coming from reducing green house gasses and other pollutants. Jobs? Using hydrocarbons as energy is gong to die regardless. Roughneck or rooftop solar installer are both tough, sweaty important jobs. Why is one so much better than the other?

On a side note: LL is totally right on the nutrient/waste issue with respect to Utah Lake- pretty clearly the issue there is wastewater, irrigation and sewage. I'm not arguing otherwise, but the temperature and dryness are not helping!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Trooper said:


> 50 years ago they couldn't prevent polio. Science gets better.


Sonny I am way older than 50 years old and I can show you my polio vaccination scar.....

If I use your logic that "Science get's better" then we should NEVER accept anything that science comes up with because in 50 years it will be proven wrong....sheesh I am getting cramps typing.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Somewhat. All bodies of water hold nutrients. The nutrient content is not nearly as important as the water temperature. Let me illustrate.....when was the last time you saw an algae bloom in January or February in any Utah lake? Without the correct water temps a bloom will not occur regardless of the nutrient levels.


You're killing me...

That's why I'm dragging global warming into my freakout/wakeup about Scofield. The nutrient level going in to the system should be about the same (maybe a little lower) as the last 40 years, but with less water and warmer temperatures the lake has literally become poison! Have fun camping at the State Park with Fido and little Billy. It's 84 degrees there right now. Should be relaxing.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Sonny I am way older than 50 years old and I can show you my polio vaccination scar.....
> 
> If I use your logic that "Science get's better" then we should NEVER accept anything that science comes up with because in 50 years it will be proven wrong....sheesh I am getting cramps typing.


Done right, science gets closer to the truth. But sometimes we don't recognize what truth.

Admit it though- you just like being obstinate on this one. What I can't figure out is, why? Maybe it's just fun to torture the likes of me. I get that. I even do that sometimes. But why this issue? I'll ask for the third time, even if human caused global warming is something totally made up by a bunch of hippies- wouldn't you support the prevention measures? Aren't "preventing global warming" and "improving wildlife habitat" the same thing?


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Trooper said:


> Agreed. I ask again. Even if global warming is a lie cooked up HRC herself, why be against the prevention measures? I see nothing but good coming from reducing green house gasses and other pollutants. Jobs? Using hydrocarbons as energy is gong to die regardless. Roughneck or rooftop solar installer are both tough, sweaty important jobs. Why is one so much better than the other?
> 
> On a side note: LL is totally right on the nutrient/waste issue with respect to Utah Lake- pretty clearly the issue there is wastewater, irrigation and sewage. I'm not arguing otherwise, but the temperature and dryness are not helping!


Nobody is against reducing pollution. Global warming is why you and Clarq are being viewed a chumps. Do yourself a favor and do a little research on global warming models and get the details on the factors in those models which are and are not included. Every model I have ever been able to get the data to break down omits factors to make the output agree with the agenda of the study. Climate change is nothing more than a fabrication done for a political and power agenda.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

toasty said:


> Nobody is against reducing pollution. Global warming is why you and Clarq are being viewed a chumps. Do yourself a favor and do a little research on global warming models and get the details on the factors in those models which are and are not included. Every model I have ever been able to get the data to break down omits factors to make the output agree with the agenda of the study. Climate change is nothing more than a fabrication done for a political and power agenda.


So you are in agreement then that vehicles should be required to get higher MPGs (ie raise the CAFE standards)? That Rocky Mountain Power should reduce it's coal usage?

Also, I love how I'm the one that hasn't done any research. http://http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Scofield has had some type of bloom about every summer for as long as I can remember and I worked in the area starting back in 77.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Critter said:


> Scofield has had some type of bloom about every summer for as long as I can remember and I worked in the area starting back in 77.


Oh- Ok, I guess it's not a big deal then? What's the line in the sand when it becomes a big deal? Fish kill=no worries. Duck kill= no worries. At what point should we be worried? I'm not saying that there hasn't always been algae blooms, I'm saying they are getting WORSE. Should we wait until there is a disaster before we are concerned? Couldn't we, for once, try and be proactive in this state?


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

I'm done on this topic- as you can see, I've been sitting here waiting for something and that something has arrived. Let me leave you with this- it isn't the fact that Scofield Reservoir is closed to all recreational uses that has me so fired up. I've been on this somewhat undignified screed because I think that underneath all the "it's real"/ "it's a hoax" debate about global warming is a political trick to encourage people to vote for one party or another. Air pollution should not be a divisive subject. If there is the will there will be a way to clean up the air and also for us all to make lots of money.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Trooper said:


> Agreed. I ask again. Even if global warming is a lie cooked up HRC herself, why be against the prevention measures?


Well I certainly am not against reasonable measures to protect the planet, but we also need to understand more fully just what the cause is, so we can determine just what we can do about it.



> I see nothing but good coming from reducing green house gasses and other pollutants. Jobs? Using hydrocarbons as energy is gong to die regardless. Roughneck or rooftop solar installer are both tough, sweaty important jobs. Why is one so much better than the other?


Oh I do. Have you studied how horrific the chemicals are that go into creation of Solar panels? The amount of energy required to just produce one vs the amount of energy it will ever gather once installed?

Do you have any clue about Lake Baotou??? A place in china where they just dump toxic chemicals that are to dangerous to store. You should read up on it. Alot of this disaster is caused by the demand by environmentally proactive, well meaning people who hope to "make the world a better place". Bautou is horrific, soon to become one of the largest man made diasters in history. There just wont be anyway to clean the aquifers once those chemicals seep in.

Seriously, this is BAD mojo:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth



> On a side note: LL is totally right on the nutrient/waste issue with respect to Utah Lake- pretty clearly the issue there is wastewater, irrigation and sewage. I'm not arguing otherwise, but the temperature and dryness are not helping!


True... but let me ask you this, why aren't surrounding lakes having the algae bloom? Scofield is a very shallow lake, possibly the solution is as simple as raising the level to which would keep the temperature lower.

Identify problems, apply smart solutions. I loathe the solar panel craze as I've studied up on just how bad the process is to create them. Same with the batteries in these new electic cars, the amount of energy that goes into just creating them is astounding.

Eventually humans will figure out reliable, wireless energy transfer. Once we have that, where we can "beam" power from point to point (kudo's to Tesla who did just that in 1890s). Then we could just create massive solar farm in space and beam the power down here. Until that happens, we need to utilize pebble bed nuclear reactors for safe power.

-DallanC


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

It amazes me so many want to ignore global warming. Global warming is not really even an argument. The earth is warming, the discussion is only about what is causing it, whether it be natural or human caused. IMO we do contribute to global warming and even if you belive that we have absolutely no affect on the planet, you cant sit here and belive that moving towards solar and cleaner sources of energy than coal is a bad thing. A winter on the wasatch front with that disgusting inversion should be proof enough we need to clean up our act the best we can. Do you honestly belive those air-born pollutants don't have any affect on our environment and health? I could care less what you do or don't belive about global warming, care about the cleanliness of the water you drink and the air you breath. You don't have to belive in global warming to see just how bad 7 billion people are on this planet. Reservoirs are draining, springs are producing less, lakes are drying. The GSL and Utah lake are at their lowest levels ever. Lake Meade is in real trouble. Heck in my neck of the woods Piute reservoir and Yuba are both under 10% right now and winters in this state just never seem to amount to much anymore. The spring that feeds my sink dropped significantly in flow this year. It was the hottest year on record via the average temperature in this state. The west is drying up, and convenetly ignoring things is not the way to move forward. Clean air, clean water, and regulations have somehow been turned into swear words when we should all be striving for those things not painting them as demons of government control. I understand the government is out of control, but what do we do in this world these days?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I may be a little late to the game at this point... Sorry about that; it takes awhile to get home riding public transit and walking the last 1/2 mile home.



toasty said:


> Nobody is against reducing pollution. Global warming is why you and Clarq are being viewed a chumps. Do yourself a favor and do a little research on global warming models and get the details on the factors in those models which are and are not included. Every model I have ever been able to get the data to break down omits factors to make the output agree with the agenda of the study. Climate change is nothing more than a fabrication done for a political and power agenda.


Let's review everything I've said regarding global warming:

1) The climate has changed.
2) The climate is changing.
3) Humans are playing a role in climate change, although it's impossible to know to what extent we've affected things.
4) It won't hurt our health or our planet if we take a proactive role in reducing carbon emissions.

If this crowd considers me a chump for that, so be it. The real chumps are those who deny 1), 2), and 4). As for 3), if you think that we can send millions of tons of CO2 and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere every year and have ZERO effect on the planet we live in, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with DallanC - Identify problems, apply smart solutions. That's why I work in the business of energy efficiency. When confronting climate change, I'd rather see us try to minimize our impacts on it (without entirely knowing how well our efforts will work) than see us resign ourselves to all the troubles that are heading our way, in addition to dirty air and a dirty environment.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Hey Clarq, I don't think you're a chump at all. Frankly, I find that one person assuming that potentially thousands of people are viewing some as a chump for expressing thier viewpoints is hilarious. This has been an entertaining read. I have nothing to contribute, sorry about that continue please.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Holy smokes, 5 pages for an algae bloom and almost none of it about Scofield itself. -Ov- This is the 3rd damndest thread I've ever seen. 


Let me just say that this might be the best news on Scofield in a while. Maybe the cyanobacteria will do what the DWR can't and "treat" the lake for us. Hopefully the fish kills continue and eliminate enough chubs to allow other species to have a chance again to grow to a size worth catching.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Catherder said:


> Holy smokes, 5 pages for an algae bloom and almost none of it about Scofield itself. -Ov- This is the 3rd damndest thread I've ever seen.
> 
> Let me just say that this might be the best news on Scofield in a while. Maybe the cyanobacteria will do what the DWR can't and "treat" the lake for us. Hopefully the fish kills continue and eliminate enough chubs to allow other species to have a chance again to grow to a size worth catching.


 Makes a good point!! By the way global warming is the effect of bovine flatulence.ainkiller:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

DallanC said:


> Well I certainly am not against reasonable measures to protect the planet, but we also need to understand more fully just what the cause is, so we can determine just what we can do about it.
> 
> Oh I do. Have you studied how horrific the chemicals are that go into creation of Solar panels? The amount of energy required to just produce one vs the amount of energy it will ever gather once installed?
> 
> ...


Just to add some additional mud to these turbid waters. Here is a fantastic, albeit simplified, analysis of Europe's 20/20 plan:
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/12/eu-plans-to-waste-7-trillion-on-climate.html

Basically, and this is supported in the 2012 IPCC report on climate change, if we assume the worst-case-scenario of the temperature models and impacts on the economy and simultaneously assume humanity's proactive efforts will achieve a best-case-scenario impact, the effect will be that our efforts are negligible and won't cause a significant impact. Additionally, the best-case-scenario total costs of our efforts will exceed the worst-case-scenario harms many times over.

That is like me offering to pay off your $1000 credit card balance over the next year if you pay me $3000 in the same time period. How does that make sense?


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Let me illustrate.....when was the last time you saw an algae bloom in January or February in any Utah lake?


FYI- GSL typically has a massive chlorophyte bloom every Jan/Feb/Mar. This occurs during 30-40 deg water temps.


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