# Bear Defense



## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Knowing next to nothing of the sort, im calling on those of you that have been in BIG bear country while hunting other critters. What did you carry vs what you wished or wanted to carry?


(Mod's, if you think this needs to be in a different forum location, by all means move.)


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Spray and a 45 while archery hunting in grizz country.
Figure if nothing else I can flavor myself up then end my suffering.
My dad missed a shot opportunity at a good buck by tinking his bow against the spray can.
But had a sow and cubs at 30 yards the next day. Said he was still glad to have it with him.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

There was a post a while back called spray is better or something like that. It had an interesting article about the reasons why bear spray is more effective and had better results than a firearm. I will snoop around a little more and see if i can find it..


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Longgun said:


> Knowing next to nothing of the sort, im calling on those of you that have been in BIG bear country while hunting other critters. What did you carry vs what you wished or wanted to carry?
> 
> (Mod's, if you think this needs to be in a different forum location, by all means move.)


In black bear country you don't need to carry anything. Black bears might be curious sometimes, but most of the time they will get the hell out of dodge (camp sites are another story, they are forest pigs). If ever attacked by a blacky, fight back.

In Grizz country they say spray works better than a gun. I would carry a side arm (Void if you are in Canada). If attacked by a Grizz get into the fetal position and play dead.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

unequivocally spray. statistics show that most who try to use a firearm get mauled, those that use spray are less likely to get mauled.... (less likely). the reason - most people do not practice, practice, practice shooting at a charging bear (mostly because they do not have the proper facility) and without that practice you are not likely to hit a bear coming at you at near 40 mph... you have a scant few seconds to get a kill shot and to bring a weapon up, sight, shoot under those conditions - few can do it. the facility our folks use in alaska is a mechanical bear which charges at full speed - you have to get 3 shotgun blasts off hitting the bear as it comes at you. while i have not done it, the folks who have assure me it takes a lot of practice to certify. all our technical safety instructors say the same - spray is far more effective than relying on a firearm for the vast majority of people.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Bear spray is vastly more effective than any firearm in stopping a bear. If you want to survive a charging bear with as little danger of injury to yourself, use bear spray. Period. It isn't even a close comparison to the analyzed attacks. And have it on a holster and accessible, not in your pack.

Here is a link to take a look at:

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2014/bearspray.htm#.VOSf9PnF_vA

And a commentary on the same study:

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...cle_4970a036-6fea-11e1-9d1a-001871e3ce6c.html

Of course, if you have a rifle in your hands out in the woods and a bear surprises you at close range, your best defense is probably your rifle due to the fact that you wouldn't have time to switch to something else and the firearm is at the ready. But if you have time to drop it and reach for something else, and that something else is a handgun and not bear spray, you're out of your mind, IMO.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Bear Spray hands down and accessible as TS30 stated. I pack a sidearm as well.

I will be bow hunting in the most populated Grizz habitat in the lower 48 this fall. I will be carrying both.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Longgun said:


> Knowing next to nothing of the sort, im calling on those of you that have been in BIG bear country while hunting other critters. What did you carry vs what you wished or wanted to carry?
> 
> (Mod's, if you think this needs to be in a different forum location, by all means move.)


I'll move this to:

*Other kinds of animals* 
*Bears*, cougars, furbearers, wolves, nonprotected animals, varmits

Good grief, I just noticed "varmints" is spelled wrong.

.


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

Bring a hunting partner that you are sure you can outrun.

Here is a not-to-old thread on the topic from here on utahwildlife.net
*Best shot gun for bear defense?*

I recently heard on the radio the results of some griz radio collar tracking. Turns out, the researchers noted that the bears would track hunters, following their path by scent, but always staying well out of sight range. The bears would even nap, but then pick right back up on the scent trail and tail the hunters. They were not hunting the hunters, but had learned that hunters often leave a kill behind that can be scavenged. I'd be wary of shooting something late in the day in griz country when you might still be cleaning/packing after dark. Here is an article on it. Montana researchers say they now have evidence grizzly bears in that state follow elk hunters hoping to scavenge their kills.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I spent a fair amount of time in Yellowstone back when carrying a firearm wasn't allowed. Took all the required bear safety courses before hiking in the Park. So naturally I carried spray and was comfortable with it.

About half the time I carried spray and once in awhile a .44 mag in Alaska while fishing, kinda depended non where I was and maybe macho peer pressure.

Sometimes when backpacking I did a poor job of keeping my spray "within reach", like if I needed it the bear's just gonna have to wait. 

I've always been an advocate of spray vs a firearm.

.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks all for the input! 

... i believe ill pack both, spray for the bear, and a 45 to slow my buddy down just enough if the spray doesnt work. :grin:


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Kingfisher said:


> unequivocally spray. statistics show that most who try to use a firearm get mauled, those that use spray are less likely to get mauled.... (less likely). the reason - most people do not practice, practice, practice shooting at a charging bear (mostly because they do not have the proper facility) and without that practice you are not likely to hit a bear coming at you at near 40 mph... you have a scant few seconds to get a kill shot and to bring a weapon up, sight, shoot under those conditions - few can do it. the facility our folks use in alaska is a mechanical bear which charges at full speed - you have to get 3 shotgun blasts off hitting the bear as it comes at you. while i have not done it, the folks who have assure me it takes a lot of practice to certify. all our technical safety instructors say the same - spray is far more effective than relying on a firearm for the vast majority of people.


Ive watched video of something very similar, its sobering fact that most of us under those conditions are gonna take a HIT.

... any particular brand of spray that has proven to preform better?


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I think a shotgun would be my preferred protection. I have personally seen bear spray malfunction in two ways. The spray went off unexpectedly and a can that would not spray. Also have a friend who sprayed himself and said he'd rather been mauled by the bear. haha

Whatever you use, a guy should become familiar with his choice. Last year I was charged by a Brown bear in AK and I don't care what you have, if the bear decides to keep coming you better have your protection in your hand at the ready. The bear which charged me covered 50-60 yards faster than I could shoulder my rifle. I am 100% certain that I can shoulder my rifle faster than I could grab a can of bear spray from a holster on my hip. 

The best protection is probably to have a friend with you-- the buddy system. Not many people get killed in a mauling if there is another person around to kill the bear.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

As mentioned in the other hundreds of threads discussing this online, a good spray is best.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Longgun said:


> Ive watched video of something very similar, its sobering fact that most of us under those conditions are gonna take a HIT.
> 
> ... any particular brand of spray that has proven to preform better?


Counter Assault is the most popular around here. I used the "backpacker" size. Every morning before leaving camp I would make sure the sprayer worked.

.


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## Mtnbeer (Jul 15, 2012)

wyogoob said:


> Counter Assault is the most popular around here. I used the "backpacker" size. Every morning before leaving camp I would make sure the sprayer worked.
> 
> .


As I've stated on the other linked threads, I did extensive tests on bear sprays about 7 years ago where I evaluated their effective use and range and my preference by far is UDAP. Compared to all other brands I tried, it had the most consistent aerosolized cone and furthest effective range.

As to Counter Assault, my mama always taught me if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. I will just say I encountered quality control and performance issues with that company.


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## Mtnbeer (Jul 15, 2012)

Kingfisher said:


> unequivocally spray. statistics show that most who try to use a firearm get mauled, those that use spray are less likely to get mauled.... (less likely). the reason - most people do not practice, practice, practice shooting at a charging bear (mostly because they do not have the proper facility) and without that practice you are not likely to hit a bear coming at you at near 40 mph... you have a scant few seconds to get a kill shot and to bring a weapon up, sight, shoot under those conditions - few can do it. the facility our folks use in alaska is a mechanical bear which charges at full speed - you have to get 3 shotgun blasts off hitting the bear as it comes at you. while i have not done it, the folks who have assure me it takes a lot of practice to certify. all our technical safety instructors say the same - spray is far more effective than relying on a firearm for the vast majority of people.


Not only that, but while the mechanical bear is charging, the instructors and other class members are screaming and trying to distract you. I average 50+ days of range time a year and I can say it was the most difficult shooting certification I've ever done. I don't think a single person passed on their first attempt.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Mtnbeer said:


> As I've stated on the other linked threads, I did extensive tests on bear sprays about 7 years ago where I evaluated their effective use and range and my preference by far is UDAP. Compared to all other brands I tried, it had the most consistent aerosolized cone and furthest effective range.
> 
> As to Counter Assault, my mama always taught me if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. I will just say I encountered quality control and performance issues with that company.


I say a big caliber rifle is thee most effective bear deterrent there is,....however, if you shoot a bear in self-defense you have a long expensive road ahead explaining and proving your actions to the Game and Fish. Spray works very, very well. I've seen it turn brown bears away instantly on two occasions. We both got to walk away alive and much wiser. I also had a black bear charge us on POW and a buddy sprayed me, the bear and another hunter while spraying over his shoulder as he ran away. Luckily me and the other forward hunter were able to pull off shots before being taken over by the spray. I carry spray. It works.
I know a shotgun or pistol sounds like a good choice, and they'll certainly work, but don't fool yourself, carry a big effing rifle or bear spray. Preferably spay.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

MtnBeer, KRAA provides Counter Assault for us. Now that you mention it, I know of two times that full cans of Counter Assault didn't spray when a couple guys were bluff-charged during the deer hunt. I need to look into UDAP.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

again, thanks to all of you providing info! Since, i have researched many an instance where spray has done its job 110%, still, a few others required a big effing rifle.

note to self:

Pack big effing rifle
Acquire insendiary grenades
Napalm
Chat with Ironman on the finer points of plasma cannon deployment. practice with that spray stuff...
Learn how to play dead...
invite _buddy_ over for bbq every weekend. (add lard and extra salt to his briskit samiches)


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> I think a shotgun would be my preferred protection. I have personally seen bear spray malfunction in two ways. The spray went off unexpectedly and a can that would not spray. Also have a friend who sprayed himself and said he'd rather been mauled by the bear. haha
> 
> Whatever you use, a guy should become familiar with his choice. Last year I was charged by a Brown bear in AK and I don't care what you have, if the bear decides to keep coming you better have your protection in your hand at the ready. The bear which charged me covered 50-60 yards faster than I could shoulder my rifle. I am 100% certain that I can shoulder my rifle faster than I could grab a can of bear spray from a holster on my hip.
> 
> The best protection is probably to have a friend with you-- the buddy system. Not many people get killed in a mauling if there is another person around to kill the bear.


noted, there will be two of us together at all times. the thing concearning me the most is that we will be sneaking around in the early hours of the morning getting position. Hell, i figure ill be packing a can of spray in one hand, 45 in the other with the headlamp burning bright. Having zero experience with this, the mere thought of the chance at stepping on Yogi's azz in the blackness is a bit nauseating at the moment.

-- what were you doing in AK?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> MtnBeer, KRAA provides Counter Assault for us. Now that you mention it, I know of two times that full cans of Counter Assault didn't spray when a couple guys were bluff-charged during the deer hunt. I need to look into UDAP.


Yeah, me too. That's why I made the comment about checking the sprayer periodically to see if it will spray. But that goes without saying; be no different than checking to see if your piece was loaded.

.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Longgun- Alone, I DIY'ed sitka blacktail the first week of Sept. on an island with the "highest concentration of brown bears" (or so say the experts). Hiked into the high country from the ocean shore and shot a buck. Deboned it, put it on my back and hiked out. On the hike out I bumped into 3 different brown bears, all within 60ish or less yards. Each time those bears just went away (although one shadowed me at 100-150 yards for about a 1/4 mile down the drainage). The 4th bear charged from a ways out (I'd guess 150+ yards away in the trees- she came to see why her yearling was growling and running away from me) and came out of the trees about 80 yards away, locked on me and covered the distance faster than I could bring my rifle to my shoulder. She pulled up at 25-ish yards and we had a heated conversation as she growled, popped her jaw, slobbered, and looked like a woman scorned-- while I screamed like a little girl and at times like a Dad yelling at his daughter's date who brought her home 10 minutes late. We decided I didn't have to shoot her and she didn't have to eat me. There is more fun to the story, but I'm not as good a story teller as Goob. That guy actually takes pics during life-threatening events.

In the end, there is no way I'd have been able to grab bear spray from a holster, nor could have I hit the bear with my rifle on the run towards me. My plan (which I had considered before the hunt and was most likely foolish) was to wait until the bear was within inches of the barrel. A shot gun would give a guy an easier warning shot in front of the bear and a shot at a few feet rather than a few inches. That is just me though.... That was enough of an adventure for me and I don't plan on doing something like that again, so I hope to not have to deal with it.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

sometimes its just good to be lucky. my nephew and his wife were putting the stalk on a very nice bull in an open saddle by coming up the hill in the timber. just needed to close and sneak another 50 yards for a kill shot. had to go over this big downed tree and as he did, snapped a bitty little twig. off the other end and uphill side of this tree comes this 2 year old grizz who had been napping. both were completely surprised and lucky for him, after the 20 foot bluff charge, the grizz took off with all the elk. ty cleaned his shorts and went back to base camp. never had a chance to get a can up or take a shot. would have been all over if the grizz had decided to kick some butt.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

... sheesh, all this drama for a little bitty deer...


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> Longgun- Alone, I DIY'ed sitka blacktail the first week of Sept. on an island with the "highest concentration of brown bears" (or so say the experts). Hiked into the high country from the ocean shore and shot a buck. Deboned it, put it on my back and hiked out. On the hike out I bumped into 3 different brown bears, all within 60ish or less yards. Each time those bears just went away (although one shadowed me at 100-150 yards for about a 1/4 mile down the drainage). The 4th bear charged from a ways out (I'd guess 150+ yards away in the trees- she came to see why her yearling was growling and running away from me) and came out of the trees about 80 yards away, locked on me and covered the distance faster than I could bring my rifle to my shoulder. She pulled up at 25-ish yards and we had a heated conversation as she growled, popped her jaw, slobbered, and looked like a woman scorned-- while I screamed like a little girl and at times like a Dad yelling at his daughter's date who brought her home 10 minutes late. We decided I didn't have to shoot her and she didn't have to eat me. There is more fun to the story, but I'm not as good a story teller as Goob. Uh...I don't know 'bout that. I wet myself when you said "came out of the trees about 80 yards away, locked on me and covered the distance faster than I could bring my rifle to my shoulder. ...........................
> 
> In the end, there is no way I'd have been able to grab bear spray from a holster, nor could have I hit the bear with my rifle on the run towards me. My plan (which I had considered before the hunt and was most likely foolish) was to wait until the bear was within inches of the barrel. A shot gun would give a guy an easier warning shot in front of the bear and a shot at a few feet rather than a few inches. That is just me though.... That was enough of an adventure for me and I don't plan on doing something like that again, so I hope to not have to deal with it.


I worked in Prudhoe Bay. There were bears, Brown and Polar. We couldn't have firearms.

I hiked in Yellowstone a lot. Much of it alone (which isn't very smart by the way) There were bears. You couldn't have firearms. I wouldn't have carried a piece anyway; too much added weight.

My ex-wife was a real bear. Pepper spray was a better option than firearms.

So I've just got use to pepper spray, same as you crazy people are use to driving I15 at 75 mph on solid ice....bumper to bumper. :smile:


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Packout said:


> Longgun- Alone, I DIY'ed sitka blacktail the first week of Sept. on an island with the "highest concentration of brown bears" (or so say the experts). Hiked into the high country from the ocean shore and shot a buck. Deboned it, put it on my back and hiked out. On the hike out I bumped into 3 different brown bears, all within 60ish or less yards. Each time those bears just went away (although one shadowed me at 100-150 yards for about a 1/4 mile down the drainage). The 4th bear charged from a ways out (I'd guess 150+ yards away in the trees- she came to see why her yearling was growling and running away from me) and came out of the trees about 80 yards away, locked on me and covered the distance faster than I could bring my rifle to my shoulder. She pulled up at 25-ish yards and we had a heated conversation as she growled, popped her jaw, slobbered, and looked like a woman scorned-- while I screamed like a little girl and at times like a Dad yelling at his daughter's date who brought her home 10 minutes late. We decided I didn't have to shoot her and she didn't have to eat me. There is more fun to the story, but I'm not as good a story teller as Goob. That guy actually takes pics during life-threatening events.
> 
> In the end, there is no way I'd have been able to grab bear spray from a holster, nor could have I hit the bear with my rifle on the run towards me. My plan (which I had considered before the hunt and was most likely foolish) was to wait until the bear was within inches of the barrel. A shot gun would give a guy an easier warning shot in front of the bear and a shot at a few feet rather than a few inches. That is just me though.... That was enough of an adventure for me and I don't plan on doing something like that again, so I hope to not have to deal with it.


Holy chit, that would've been frightening!


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## cc6565 (Feb 6, 2012)

When Archery hunting I carry both bear spray and my 357.


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## spacinout (Jul 19, 2014)

I think I would trade the .45 for a 10mm Auto or a .44 mag. From what I've read a .45 ACP isn't the greatest defense for grizzly bears.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, sounds like this lil adventure is all but a go for this November.

How do i get the compressed can of Pepperspray on the plane?


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

UDAP Bear Spray.

http://udap.com/


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## Mtnbeer (Jul 15, 2012)

Longgun said:


> Ok, sounds like this lil adventure is all but a go for this November.
> 
> How do i get the compressed can of Pepperspray on the plane?


First off, and maybe I missed this in the thread somewhere, but where are you going for this adventure (exact location isn't necessary, but island/mountain range, nearest town would suffice)? In all likelihood, one of us could give you advice on where to get the stuff (and may even have more info for you).

You should be able to buy UDAP in most major stopping off points in bear country (places like Juneau, Ketchikan, Anchorage, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.). If you are taking a small wheeled or float plane from there, just inform the pilot that you have pepper spray. He (or she) will likely put it in a waterproof bag and stash it in the floats (for a float plane) or hide/strap it somewhere outside of the main cabin (for a wheeled plane)


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Mtnbeer, yes ill clarify... Longbow/aka Chuck and i are working out the particulars for a Sitka hunt on Afognak this November. In regard to the spray, i want the very best on my side/in my hand for obvious reasons.


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## Mtnbeer (Jul 15, 2012)

Excellent choice. Chuck will take good care of ya. Ravn or AK Air won't let you take spray down from Anchorage, so you'll have to get it in Kodiak town. Someone is bound to carry UDAP in town.

Most the pilots around (Andrews Air, Eaton bros at Kingfisher Aviation, etc.) are used to spray, so just tell them you have some and they'll give you instructions on how they want to fly with it.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I just called Mack's Sports Shop and they only carry Counter Assault. You could order some online and send it ahead of time to PO Box KKB, Kodiak, AK 99697 or to Island Air in Trident Basin and they can hold it for you.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks fellahs.


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## goonsquad (Sep 15, 2010)

Make sure to ask the bear to move down wind before use.


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