# best value gun



## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

what do you guys think is an affordable muzzleloader that is tried and trued. i am needing it for my elk hunt and i am pulling my hair out try to settle on a gun. is the cva elkhorn any good are the traditions model any good any input would be greatly appreciated


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I personally think CVA is junk from my experience with the Wolf model; you definitely get what you pay for and especially when you get cheap rifles-you are wasting money on the cheapest junk. It took me two times of learning that lesson before it sunk in. Spend an extra $100 and get a T/C Omega, best money you will ever spend in the upgrade. A rifle is something that you will have literally forever, what is an extra $100 in the long run? I don't know of anyone who has said "I wish I would have bought the cheap POS, the way this rifle has lasted for twenty years just really bugs me that I don't have an excuse with the wife to buy a new one." Get the Omega and you will NEVER look back. Search out the muzzy forum and you will see that the Omega is the overall favorite.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Thompson Center.....50 or 54 cal....anything that fits your budget. Lifetime guarantee, if something breaks you send it to them, pay the shipping and they will fix it or send you a brand new gun...it does not matter if you are the first owner or the 100th owner.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I almost bought the Optima, but was talked into spending a little bit more and picked up the TC Omega. I'm glad I did.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

The only good muzzleloaders are the ones with T/C at the front of the name!


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

well I see that we have some bias here. your Omega might be nice to you, but the one thing have to say about Thomson's in-lines is they are very finicky about what you put down the barrel.

Most of your Knights are very good rifles along with the newer CVA's that are being made today. I just recently bought the new accura V2 and have to say it is one of the best muzzle loaders that I have handle so far. for an in-line. their new breech plug really does work, i was impressed with the ease of removal. and the barrel does clean up easy.
this might shock some of you thompson fans. the same Bargara barrel you find on the CVA Accura/Optima rifles is found on your thompson's Encore/Pro Hunter in-lines also.

check them all out before most of the Omega fans talk you into buying an Omega.

the knight''s can be still be found NIB for sale.


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

I bought a CVA Kodiak a few years back and could not be happier. It shoots straight and loads easy (except the barnes Sabot). I actually bought some lead bullets from sage a year or so ago and it shoots them very nice with some of shockys gold powder behind them. I'm very excited about using it this year on my deer hunt. 

All the T/C hype is just that, Hype. The make a great gun, but this is just like the Ford vs. Chevy arguement.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> The only good muzzleloaders are the ones with T/C at the front of the name!


That's the most blind statement I've ever read.

As was mentioned, Knight rifles are superbly made. I've owned two and still have the Long Range Hunter. It's the best shooter I've ever owned at 100 yards, sub 1" always. I also have a Traditions Pursuit Pro that is every bit as accurate and reliable as my T/C Pro Hunter. I really like the Traditions brand because I think they incorporate neat features into their rifles that are usually only found on the more expensive models in other brands. If you do go the Traditions route, buy a new one. Their barrels are much stronger and better made now than they were, say, ten years ago.

I do like the T/C brand so don't take this post as an affront to a really nice rifle. By no means are they the only thing out there, though. They are more expensive and a lot of that is just hype. They do build a good rifle. So do some others.

I have also owned two CVA's and I still own one that almost never makes it out of the safe. I'm not a fan of CVA, but I think they've improved since I last bought one of their products. I know some who like them.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Here is the exact gun I would buy in your situation:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=184580095
The Knight KP1 can be changed to a centerfire or rimfire or shotgun with the purchase of extra barrels that are widely available. It's like the T/C Pro Hunter, but hundreds of dollars cheaper. If you bought this blackpowder gun now, you'd be able to buy extra barrels for it later when you could afford to. Then you could have three high quality rifles for the price of one T/C.


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## sharpshooter25 (Oct 2, 2007)

T/C Encore is what I shoot and I will probably never shoot anything else. Yes the Omega is a great gun for a lesser price. I would just ask you how serious are you wanting to get into muzzleloader hunting? If it is just something you want to try, then buy the Omega, but if it is something you really want to get into, then spend the money. Just like Huge said, it is something that will last you a long time, and if you really want to get into it, I would go with something like the Encore, or the Pro Hunter. Although I have a buddy who had the encore, went to the pro hunter, and is now back to the encore, said he liked it better. But don't go cheap, because then you will have a bad taste in your mouth for muzzleloading, and you get what you pay for.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Wow, some of you guys really need to do research before saying CVA's are junk.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I never meant to dis on a CVA. I just ended up purchasing the T/C and have been very happy with it. I don't have much experience with any muzzleloaders beyond my own. I hunt with a muzzleloader and shoot about 50 round through it every year. Beyond that I don't use it much. I wasn't looking for a really high end gun. I wanted a simple, quality gun that could get the job done for me and I feel like the Omega has done that for me. I'm sure I could have bought one of dozens of guns and been just as happy. But I was just wanting to share my experience, as I think most of the people on this thread have done

Go handle a few of the guns, read some online reviews, and talk to people who have used them. You'll make the right choice I'm sure.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

well thank's for all of the advice guys i decided to go with the cva acurra. i paid 320$ through cabelas with tax so i did not end up breakng the bank and from all of the reviews on the gun i hope i made the right choice.i am excited about the bergerra barrell on the gun and the user friendly cleaning of the gun i also went with the thumb hole grip. once again thanks for all the advice


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I take it you did not get the QRBP if you paid that price, you should be happy with your choice anyway. So when you going out shooting? i will be picking up a optima w/thumbhole stock this weekend and need to shoot it also.

if you want a good load just for plinking try some hornady .45 cal XTP mag's w/MMP HPH 24 sabots 90 grainsT777 fffg.

barnes 290 grain tmz also shoot real well same powder charge you can go to 100 grains if you want.
try the barnes 250 mz also. but with the barnes you need to change out the sabots with the harverster crushrib yellows.

also for your info the hornadys SST bullets are the same bullets that T/C use for their super guides

also the same as the 45-70 leverrevloution bullets you have to use the orange MMP sabots. they make a sabot to fit the .458 dia bullets it is the orange sabots.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

BTW, a good source on CVA rifle reviews.

http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blogspot.com/

They shoot straight I tell ya!


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

sagebrush said:


> I take it you did not get the QRBP if you paid that price, you should be happy with your choice anyway. So when you going out shooting? i will be picking up a optima w/thumbhole stock this weekend and need to shoot it also.
> 
> if you want a good load just for plinking try some hornady .45 cal XTP mag's w/MMP HPH 24 sabots 90 grainsT777 fffg.
> 
> ...


it has the quick release they have them on clearance due to the new model that just came out


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Wow, some of you guys really need to do research before saying CVA's are junk.


Here, do some research:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm
CVA's used to be absolute garbage, dangerous to the point that all CVA rifles manufactured before 1998 were recalled and owners were given free replacement barrels. An old neighbor of mine had his thumb blown off by one of these pieces of crap when his barrel blew out the back end while using a factory-recommended load. He'd have lost his vision had he not been wearing goggles.
Let's put it this way: CVA's decision to use Vergara barrels, the same barrels used by T/C, is no accident. They got to where they are by endangering people's lives and being sued into making a better product.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> > Wow, some of you guys really need to do research before saying CVA's are junk.
> 
> 
> Here, do some research:
> http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm


Well, yeah, but other than just blowing a few fellar's hands off and blinding several others and importing a product that they have never even tested and really are nothing but a distributor..I mean other than that, it sounds like a perfectly legitimate company, right? :roll:

Sounds like another vote for T/C! I can appreciate someone wanting the biggest piece of crap tooth brush or windshield wipers, but I don't think a rifle is a good place where the lowest bidder should get the contract or my sale in this case.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> > Wow, some of you guys really need to do research before saying CVA's are junk.
> 
> 
> Here, do some research:
> ...


There have been plenty of great gun makers that have made mistakes. I have heard of people shooting Glocks and getting a pistol slide blown into their eye socket. Doesn't make them a bad company. If they fix their mistakes, then good for them!

And yes, I have read that article. Read it a long time ago actually before I got my first CVA rifle in 2002. Obviously they aren't selling their guns made in the late 90's anymore.

Knight Rifles had problems with the Revolutions models accidentally discharging. Too bad they weren't able to hang on and stay in business. They made some **** fine rifles and you can still actually get one NIB.

Don't get me wrong, brother. I really like TC rifles. I own a .50 T/C Hawken with a **** fine looking english walnut stock. 90 grains of powder and a roundball is very adequate for hunting and accuracy is great. But the CVA rifles made today are not the same ones from the late 90's.

BTW, all of CVA's barrels are made in the Bergara plant these days.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Knight is back in business. They never did stop service or selling parts. You will be seeing their new lineup of guns soon. 

Also, I know that CVA rifles are improved. I mentioned that in my first post on this thread. Traditions also improved their barrels about the same time. I'm just a little bitter toward CVA because of some history with the company. I imagine they've improved in the customer service department as well.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> Knight is back in business. They never did stop service or selling parts. You will be seeing their new lineup of guns soon.
> 
> Also, I know that CVA rifles are improved. I mentioned that in my first post on this thread. Traditions also improved their barrels about the same time. I'm just a little bitter toward CVA because of some history with the company. I imagine they've improved in the customer service department as well.


I actually just visited Knights website. I am glad they will be making rifles again. Anyone know exactly what year they will start again? I can definitely understand not liking a company for making a dangerous and defective product. Sometimes it is easy to ignore their mistakes and sometimes its not.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

i took the accura out shooting today and i could not be happier. it was shooting great groups and the gun is very comfortable.the one thing i did not like about the thompsons was the degree on the trigger it was to far forward. i know they do this to help with trigger jerk but man it was uncomfortable when i was comparing that to the cva.this th accura is easy to clean and a good looking great shooting gun i could not be happier with my choice


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

What bullet and powder combo are you using? I have had great luck with Barnes bullets and triple 7 powder. Would like to stay with that but am not hearing many reports on it with the CVA Accura.


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