# Draft of 2009-2010 Upland Game Guidebook



## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

We've just posted the near-final draft of the 2009-2010 Upland Game Guidebook at http://tr.im/o5wa. Feel free to take a look and let me know if you see anything problematic. Thanks!


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

That was nice, the DWR came to us. 

-Thanks Amy!


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## stillhuntin (Feb 14, 2008)

Niiice. A heads-up. It's appreciated Amy, thanks.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks for the link. Looks good and glad to see some stuff about concealed carry laws in there. I have had a lot of questions about some of them answered.


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

No problem. Thanks for taking the time to look through it and PM questions/comments. I really appreciate your feedback!


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up once again Amy.


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## vato-loco (Jun 8, 2009)

looks good. im ready to go get some grouse. maybe quail too


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## Snipe (Dec 4, 2008)

I have a question. Why are all the pictures of birds in color except doves? 


Thanks
Tony.


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## sudden thunder (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi Looks good so far. Thanks for asking for opinions :wink:


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

I really like the 3 day out of state tag idea. Thanks for posting it here for review.


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

Snipe said:


> I have a question. Why are all the pictures of birds in color except doves?


That's a good question, Tony. We've been trying to locate and obtain the rights to use some high-quality color illustrations for doves. Unfortunately, we had to go to print this year before we could secure those illustrations/rights. So it's at the top of our list for next year's guidebook. Thanks for following up!


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

I have a minor gripe- some of you may have heard me whine about this before at the RAC's and UCWF meetings. I don’t know why this bugs me so much, since it doesn't affect me personally at all, and I doubt it affects more than a dozen people in the state. Still, it bugs me, maybe because it makes the regulation unnecessarily complicated. Anyway, can someone please clarify and/or eliminate the rule that states "Upland game may be taken with... a handgun"? The rule then goes on to state that any "handgun" that is used on upland game must fire 1/2 oz of size 2-8 shot. As far as I know, that means you must be firing .410 shells. I don't even think you could hand load a .45 shell or smaller caliber to 1/2 oz? (Anybody out there ever try this?) Wouldn't it tear up the rifling?

I know that there are a few "hand-cannons" out there, like the Taurus Judge that are capable of such a feat- and some .410 pistols exist, but why go to all the trouble to write a law that seems almost certain to ensnare the hunter who decides to take a shot at a grouse with a .22 pistol or his personal sidearm? Either just allow all handguns or outlaw them all. Forget about the shot requirement. (In my home state of Wisconsin rim fire ammunition is OK for grouse- not my cup of tea, but some people don't have a dog). 

Either option would have just about zero impact on the resource, and simplify the regulation. How many people just read that "Upland game may be taken with a handgun" and don't continue to the 1/2 oz of shot requirement? If you are firing .410 shot shells, are you really using a handgun? Or just a small shotgun?

Why do I even care about this? Every year it bugs me, and I don't know why!

My $.02.


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

Trooper,

I've forwarded your comment to the person who chairs our guidebook review team. We'll try and track down an answer/response for you.

Thanks,
Amy


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## Jonny Utah (Jul 4, 2008)

Maybe we could state in the big game proclamation that poaching grouse with rifles is also illegal. :shock:


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Amy,

There are several people here that are quite the photographers. Even though its too late this year, you could always solicite the help of a few individuals here tp get you some high quality dove pics.

The Mourning and EC's will be easy...its those rare southern species they'll struggle with.

Just a thought, heck we could even start a contest!


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

Those are some nice photos, Zim! I've lurked here for years, and you're right: there are some incredible photographers who post on the forum. And as many people know, we even asked Tree for permission to use his elk for the Big Game guidebook cover. 

I chatted about this with our graphic designer today, though, and we probably want to stick with illustrations for the doves. There are a couple of reasons why:

1. The biggest reason is that we want to highlight key characteristics of the doves for identification purposes. For that, we really need the doves side by side, with the physical differences readily apparent. Photos, while much more interesting to look at, don't always capture those differences in an obvious way.

2. We're typically crunched for space in the guidebooks. Photos that are large and detailed enough to use for identification will likely take up more room than we can spare.

I do, however, really appreciate your offer and willingness to help address the problem.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Amy said:


> I chatted about this with our graphic designer today, though, and we probably want to stick with illustrations for the doves. There are a couple of reasons why:
> 
> 1. The biggest reason is that we want to highlight key characteristics of the doves for identification purposes. For that, we really need the doves side by side, with the physical differences readily apparent. Photos, while much more interesting to look at, don't always capture those differences in an obvious way.
> 
> ...


Good points.

But if those are the reasons for the illustrations (and they are great reasons, especially for up and coming youth hunters, for which learning correct identification if very important) I implore that you use "field guide" type illustrations. 

You know, the Peterson Field varieties are very good. 'Course getting permission to use such artwork could be problematic.

Anywho, this is just semantics...the booklet looks great. And Amy, its great to have you on this site.

caleb


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Trooper said:


> I have a minor gripe- some of you may have heard me whine about this before at the RAC's and UCWF meetings. I don't know why this bugs me so much, since it doesn't affect me personally at all, and I doubt it affects more than a dozen people in the state. Still, it bugs me, maybe because it makes the regulation unnecessarily complicated. Anyway, can someone please clarify and/or eliminate the rule that states "Upland game may be taken with... a handgun"? The rule then goes on to state that any "handgun" that is used on upland game must fire 1/2 oz of size 2-8 shot. As far as I know, that means you must be firing .410 shells. I don't even think you could hand load a .45 shell or smaller caliber to 1/2 oz? (Anybody out there ever try this?) Wouldn't it tear up the rifling?
> 
> I know that there are a few "hand-cannons" out there, like the Taurus Judge that are capable of such a feat- and some .410 pistols exist, but why go to all the trouble to write a law that seems almost certain to ensnare the hunter who decides to take a shot at a grouse with a .22 pistol or his personal sidearm? Either just allow all handguns or outlaw them all. Forget about the shot requirement. (In my home state of Wisconsin rim fire ammunition is OK for grouse- not my cup of tea, but some people don't have a dog).
> 
> ...


Trooper,, you're not alone on this one. I've also had this same gripe. I have bird shot for my .357 and it's not legal.


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

InvaderZim said:


> I implore that you use "field guide" type illustrations.
> 
> You know, the Peterson Field varieties are very good. 'Course getting permission to use such artwork could be problematic.
> 
> Anywho, this is just semantics...the booklet looks great. And Amy, its great to have you on this site.


Unfortunately, it's more often a matter of cost than permission for that caliber of artwork, but we'll see what we can do. Thanks for the kind words and warm welcome!


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

Oh, and I meant to mention this earlier: the final edition of the 2009-2010 Upland Game guidebook is now online at http://tr.im/o5wa. Paper copies should be available in about two weeks.

Many thanks to everyone for the public and private feedback. Even if we didn't make the changes you noted this year, it's given us a great start on a to-do list for next year.

Trooper and Fixed, I'll get back to you as soon as I hear something about the handgun/ammo-size issue.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Amy said:


> Oh, and I meant to mention this earlier: the final edition of the 2009-2010 Upland Game guidebook is now online at http://tr.im/o5wa. Paper copies should be available in about two weeks.
> 
> Many thanks to everyone for the public and private feedback. Even if we didn't make the changes you noted this year, it's given us a great start on a to-do list for next year.
> 
> *Trooper and Fixed, I'll get back to you as soon as I hear something about the handgun/ammo-size issue*.


Thanks amy. I would love to hunt ruffed grouse with my pistol some day.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

**** you both! Leave well enough alone. :mrgreen: :wink: 

I was gonna use my dads snake gun, which shoots .410 out of a pistol) this year on a ptarmigan hunt! Its weighs less than a real gun, and I might even be able to hit 'em in flight!


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## Jonny Utah (Jul 4, 2008)

Zim, are'nt you a cheater anyway? That is on of those horseback guys?


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Jonny Utah said:


> Zim, are'nt you a cheater anyway? That is on of those horseback guys?


Last time this horse back thing came to pass, the son's a beetches bailed! We was left with only one horse (which had a rider and his pack) and we were left to pack in our own chit!

Hopefully this year will be better...but never trust horsemen! :mrgreen:


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## Jonny Utah (Jul 4, 2008)

I had few great trips with no luck for birds, my crippled 5 knee surgery legs tell me there will be no more attempts for me unless I had a pack animal. It's not the miles that bother me, but packing the weight is what kills.


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