# Illegal Aliens and Licenses



## jsumm_2000 (Sep 18, 2008)

Does the State of Utah sell fishing licenses to our illegals? Just curious because I am noticing unusual amounts of trash in my fishing spots. The garbage is spanish made with spanish beer cans. I never see a fish cop to ask them, what toll is our resources taking? Does any one know?


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Dealers will sell a license to anyone, as long as they have a drivers license/social security number.

Just because you see "Spanish" beer cans dosent mean it was a "Spanish" person. :? I love a good mexican beer as much as the next guy, as well as a good Beto's burrito. Could of been a "white guy". Just sayin'...

Having said that, I will say this. I've personally seen people of Mexican decent throw and leave their trash along the west side of Utah Lake, especially around the knolls area :evil: . Whether or not they had a license I dont know. I do wish the fish cops would check this area more, I've never seen one there.

Our resources are taking a toll. I cant think of a place where I haven't seen any trash and when I see it, I try to pick it up.

If you go to the knolls area you'd better take a dump truck and a front end loader, you'll need it.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Like sawsman said, the DWR will take cash from anyone.

As far as trashiness, I wish I could say the gringos were any better.........


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Most of the time, you can get a fishing license without proof of anything. I remember the first time I bought a license for my wife. She wasn't legal at that time.

It was simple. She wasn't even there, yet I was able to buy a license for her by stating her name, date of birth, and vouching that she had lived in Utah for at least 6 months (resident).

I could've made up a name (alias) and gotten a license for an assumed name that I wanted to be known by. No driver license or SS# is needed. The license number on your fishing documentation is generated at the time of purchase, by default when there's no existing number to use.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Your question makes no sense. How do you know the garbage is being left behind by undocumented folks exactly? And what does garbage have to do with purchase of a fishing license? Seems like a thinly veiled rant against undocumented people, and while you are entitled to your opinions, I don't see what it has to do with a fishing questions forum.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

ScottyP and others brought up some good points.

I'm locking this topic. It is not in the best interest of the UWN or it's members.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

There are others, including Moderators, that wish to re-open this topic.

I am here to serve. The topic is unlocked. 

Please try to substantiate any "claims" with facts.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

You just teasing us with your powers goob?  

jsumm_2000 should clarify his question/s a little. Kinda two questions mixed together.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

sawsman said:


> You just teasing us with your powers goob?
> 
> ..................................................


No sir.


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## 71nova (Jan 9, 2008)

If the dwr will take cash form anyone they should be there to issue tickets for lilttering, no licenses, etc. If they would put a trash can or two out there that would cut down on some of the garbage and give them a reason to drive out there to glass people, issue citations, and change the trash.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

71nova said:


> If the dwr will take cash form anyone they should be there to issue tickets for lilttering, no licenses, etc. If they would put a trash can or two out there that would cut down on some of the garbage and give them a reason to drive out there to glass people, issue citations, and change the trash.


Good point nova, but let's take it one step further. If people would just pack their own trash out then our hard earned money wouldnt have to go for things like that. CO's should be out there enforcing the rules, not emptying garbarge cans. Cite them for littering yes, but do not place trash cans around. When they get full, some people just throw the garbage on the ground next to them. :evil:

When I took my boy to get him a fishing license they would not sell him one without a SS#. I know there is not a place for it on the actual license, so it had me confused a bit. I guess it depends on where you buy one as LOAH's experience was different than my mine.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Wal*Mart. *\-\*


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## scottie985 (Jan 4, 2010)

The way the laws are written it is very hard for any law enforcement to control the litter problem anywhere. Law enforcement must see the people with the trash and then wait until the people leave it before they can issue a ticket. Until then the people can always say it wasn't theirs or that they were waiting to pick everything up when they left. This can take hours of waiting and waiting for people to finish and leave. If people see they are being watched by a cop they tend to pick things up waisting the officers time.

Requirements for licences have changed over the past few years. What wasn't required a few years ago like your SS# is now required. Not sure what people without a SS# are required to produce.


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

sawsman,
Disagree a bit. In the areas that I fish, trash cans can only help. There are other civic, Forest Service, State agencies that can provide that service. When the $ are spent on a parking lot, new or otherwise, with toileltry, etc. then it only makes sence to provide. Prime example is the new parking lot in the N.E. corner of Mantua. that has a new parking lot and john but no trash receptacle unless you walk down the service road a 1/3 mi. It's not an answer to the trash people but it would help. There are always the lazy, don't care people that just will trash any area no matter.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Leaky said:


> sawsman,
> Disagree a bit. In the areas that I fish, trash cans can only help. There are other civic, Forest Service, State agencies that can provide that service. When the $ are spent on a parking lot, new or otherwise, with toileltry, etc. then it only makes sence to provide. Prime example is the new parking lot in the N.E. corner of Mantua. that has a new parking lot and john but no trash receptacle unless you walk down the service road a 1/3 mi. It's not an answer to the trash people but it would help. There are always the lazy, don't care people that just will trash any area no matter.


I agree that some trash cans would help at some places. But from what I have seen at UL, it would take hundreds of trash cans to make any difference. I dont think a DNR officer should have to empty the trash like that which was implied. Another agency would make more sense.

This problem needs to be pulled from the root. Cite the people who litter. Hard to enforce I know. The only other way to stop the problem is to close certain areas down completely and nobody wants that to happen...Of course this whole problem can be resolved and summed up in a familiar saying. PACK IT IN- PACK IT OUT.

And the license issue.. dont know the answer. It seems like the sellers do it different from place to place. And I'm sure there are many out there, "Spanish" or other, who choose to fish without one. Probably the same people who are littering.


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## sh00ttok1ll (Feb 20, 2008)

SS# are not required for licenses. They are only "requested" by the DWR. The reason for this is simply a house keeping issue on their servers. When you sell a license you create a customer on their database. That info is stored there ready to be pulled up next time. In order to do that, you need two of three things: date of birth, SS#, and/or DWR customer number. 

If someone exists in the system but you don't enter that info and pull up their existing info, you create a new client on the server. When things start piling up, they have to clear out the duplicates. Since most people can remember their SS# and date of birth it makes it much less likely to have to create a duplicate and therefore, less customers that have to be purged from the system.

As for illegals buying licenses, the only requirement to buy a license is that you have been a resident for at least six months. Under the DWR's definintion of "resident" there is no requirement to be legally residing here. Also, the burden of proof is on the person buying the license. To be legal, you have to state at the bottom of your license how long you've been a resident and then sign. At that point, you are now responsioble for substantiating the info you just signed.

In short, the DWR is not in the business of enforcing immigration laws. It really is not their responsibility. Whether it should be or not is an entirely different topic and probably doesn't belong on the fishing board.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

My hopes are these, these, neerdowell non-documented individuals are buying Non-resident fishing licenses.  

On another note; I pick up a some litter from time to time. I find many empty vodka bottles. Can I assume they come from Russian Illegals?


Good grief.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Here's the kicker....after living in Utah for 6 months, illegal aliens meet the residency requirements to legally purchase a resident license! They may be in the U.S. illegally and get deported if caught, but at least they won't get cited for illegally purchasing a resident fishing license.

As a side note, Social Security cards can be purchased for right around $200 on the street these days from what I've been told. Some coyotes will even include one in the $7,000 they charge to sneak an illegal across the border. So most illegals have no problem producing a SSN.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Our grand sons Live in AF, go fishin down at the lake and on the river bout 5 times a week For what it's worth there is a huge group of people, with 5 gallon buckets takin anything that swims, bass in the slot on the Mill Pond. over limits on everything else. and when they bug out. just sh-- can the trash on the bank... at night is a real problem. Party Party tossin back to many brewskies! get a bit rowdy. and play their music. which will drive you crazy. cause it sounds like the same song all night. DWR needs to start checking these groups, If there beakin the law.roust em outa.. if they plead ignorance to the law don't slap their hands.. Right em up!


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