# Justifying your kill.



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

This is a topic that has been eating at me this year. Everyone posting pics and downplaying the animal that was killed. In my opinion a little disrespectful. Be proud and own it no need to justify! I don't know, Maybe it's just me. I ran across this article that pretty much sums up my thoughts!

https://www.bowhunting.com/blog/201...ming-quit-making-excuses-shooting-small-buck/


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I just had a discussion on this in PMs. Alot of people here at UWN have given up posting pictures due to negative comments.


-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

My memory is not that great but I don't remember many negative posts for the photos that have been posted.

But it does seem like some people like to respond to topics just to troll. Or the OP starts a thread knowing it is going to get some people riled up.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

middlefork said:


> My memory is not that great but I don't remember many negative posts for the photos that have been posted.
> 
> But it does seem like some people like to respond to topics just to troll. Or the OP starts a thread knowing it is going to get some people riled up.


It's not necesarrily always other people a lot of it is the poster saying stuff to justify why they killed that particular animal. But there is also a lot of people commenting on other people's pics doing the same thing.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I really dont care how somehow feels about the animal they shot. If someone shoots a big 3 point or something similar that I would consider a big buck and they are trying to stroke their own ego by saying something like "not the biggest buck" or "he isnt on my hit list but ill take him" Well....ok then.

I may have been guilty of this myself just last year when I posted about a spike I shot with my daughter. Haven't looked it up but I recall saying something like "I know this buck is tiny but I had my daughter with me and that is what was most important".

I cut those antlers off on the skull plate and my daughter proudly displays them on the book shelf in her room. One of my most memorable bucks.

Did I disrespect my buck or anyone else with my comment? I dont think so. He was super tiny. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I think most of it is this perception that you have to shoot something big, the mine is bigger then yours game. It's all you see on social media and has bleed over to the forums as well. I have only posted one animal in the last 7 years and that was the bull I shot last year and even then I got a couple comments that it would have been a nice 6 point in another year.

Personally I don't give a crud what anyone has to say about the size of a general season animal since generally any legal animal is hard to come by in general season. 

Anyone I take to lately is all about the score of an animal and to tell you the truth I generally have no idea what a big deer or elk scores, I'm just not hung up on numbers and could care less. If I'm hunting a good tag I have seen enough animals to know what a big one looks like and if I decide it's big enough I'll shoot it and be happy with it. I have yet to score anything I have shot and probably never will.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

It's great to learn that there are others out there that are like me!


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

middlefork said:


> My memory is not that great but I don't remember many negative posts for the photos that have been posted.


+1. I can only recall one forum member who went so far as to belittle another's trophy, but heaven knows that guy has issues...

I think the need people feel to justify killing a small or average-sized animal is a product of the trophy hunting culture that's so prevalent these days. It seems as though you're not a "successful" hunter in the public's eye until you kill a B+C record book animal or consistently shoot limits of small game.

Social media, and even forums like this, don't help the cause because they make it so easy to compare your own results to everyone else's (unrepresentative) results. 30 years ago, everyone in the family deer camp was absolutely stoked if someone came back with a 22" 4-point. That was a nice deer, much better than the 2-points most of them got. If I bring home a 22" 4-point next year, I'll be happy, but it probably won't look like much of a trophy if I compare it to a bunch of the deer posted on the UWN every year, let alone the deer on the Mossback videos or in trophy hunting magazines. All the stuff we see on the internet can easily give us false expectations or beliefs about what a hunter "should" harvest, or what a "trophy" animal really is.

I consider myself an average duck hunter. My typical bag is usually 2-5 birds (hens and drakes) in a variety of species that may or may not be "desirable" in the public eye. I take pictures for my own memories, but I'm very rarely inclined to share them on the forum. Not because I think people would badmouth them (although, now that I think about it, there are several members who do for certain species), but because I just don't think they would be all that interesting to the membership when we have guys on the forum who can shoot 20 all-greenhead limits in a season, shoot sea ducks on the GSL, bag limits of honkers weekend after weekend, etc. Posts I have made about average and/or unsuccessful days have generally received a lackluster response.

I think something similar may be going on in the hunting community, and to some extent, the forum. There are a small number of exceptional hunters who shoot exceptional animals or post interesting content and pictures, and a whole bunch of average or below average guys who either hold back entirely or feel like they have to justify themselves because they didn't produce the same results that those top few did.


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## Baron83 (May 24, 2016)

This is an interesting topic cause i was thinking about this during my hunt this year. I didn't shoot anything for 7 years of the bowhunt cause they weren't (big enough) and gave alot people i knew a hard time about shooting (smaller to me) bucks. But i realized something this year it doesn't matter what size the animal, it's the experience being with family, enjoying time together. any tag that gets filled is an accomplishment no matter what.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I tell you what. I would ten times rather see a guy shoot a little 2 point and be absolutely stoked about it, than see a guy shoot a 160 class buck and be bummed out because there was some ground shrinkage and it wasn't the 180 class buck he thought it was. And I would 1,000 times rather see a guy shoot a cow and enjoy every last bit of the meat off of it, than see a guy shoot a 350 bull put it in the freezer and let it sit there until it starts to freezer burn then throw most of it out.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I have a neighbor who wont hesitate to bitch about the 375 bull elk he killed. He wanted a 385+



-DallanC


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

DallanC said:


> I have a neighbor who wont hesitate to bitch about the 375 bull elk he killed. He wanted a 385+
> 
> 
> 
> -DallanC


Poor guy. Who could even tell the difference between a 375 and a 385 bull standing side by side out in the wild?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Poor guy. Who could even tell the difference between a 375 and a 385 bull standing side by side out in the wild?


That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't the difference between 375 and 385 be less than one inch longer per tine?


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

colorcountrygunner said:


> I tell you what. I would ten times rather see a guy shoot a little 2 point and be absolutely stoked about it, than see a guy shoot a 160 class buck and be bummed out because there was some ground shrinkage and it wasn't the 180 class buck he thought it was. And I would 1,000 times rather see a guy shoot a cow and enjoy every last bit of the meat off of it, than see a guy shoot a 350 bull put it in the freezer and let it sit there until it starts to freezer burn then throw most of it out.


I agree, every time I go to the freezer and take out some of my spike I don't whine and complain that I didn't wait for something bigger, but I do smile knowing the entire animal is tender and didn't have to grind all of him into burger to be edible. One day I will shoot a bull worth spending the money on a full mount, but until then I will be perfectly content with spikes and calves, yummy!


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

DallanC said:


> I have a neighbor who wont hesitate to bitch about the 375 bull elk he killed. He wanted a 385+
> 
> 
> 
> -DallanC


Sounds like he may be just one of those people who find something to complain about no matter how good life is.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Same topic on another forum site. Those who shame others on size (or even complain about what they shot) are worthless as hunters.

That's it, and that's all...


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I say just go buy yourself a great big pickup truck, jack it in the air with great big tires, hook onto your 87' 5th wheeler toy hauler then swing into Cabelas and load up on that lastest needed camo and $1700 binoc's and go huntin. Stop worrying about what other people think...you da man!


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I'm more bummed when I don't get something as I have just as much fun if not more fun messing with the meat. This year all I brought home after my AZ deer screw up was a little antelope buck so the little spikers better watch out cause next season I will be getting very low on game meat. Just a couple days ago I inventoried the freezer to see just what I had left off the 2 elk last season, if I ration just right I might make it through to next October.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is getting bad when we have to start hiding our kills from fellow hunters. There was a time when every truck going down the highway had a deer head showing, now with all the anti hunters the game and fish ask up to cover everything up so that we don't offend them. I live on a main access road into some great hunting here in Colorado, it used to be that when I was working in the yard during the seasons I would notice quite a few nicer set of antlers and even small sets coming down the road headed to the freeway, not no more. The antlers are under tarps or in the back of campers. You can also notice this anywhere along I-70, hunters used to be proud of what they had taken and displayed it as they drove home, but today you might chance to see a set of antlers tied to the top of a ATV trailer as the hunter makes his way back home. 

If a person is disappointed in what they are shooting then perhaps they should stop hunting. And as hunters on a forum we should just congratulate a hunter no matter what he has a picture of. That one thread a couple of weeks ago where a member was telling another that the buck that he shot on a LE hunt could be shot anywhere and that he had a few dozen better ones off of public land, there is no place for something like this we need to stick together.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Critter said:


> If a person is disappointed in what they are shooting then perhaps they should stop hunting. And as hunters on a forum we should just congratulate a hunter no matter what he has a picture of. That one thread a couple of weeks ago where a member was telling another that the buck that he shot on a LE hunt could be shot anywhere and that he had a few dozen better ones off of public land, there is no place for something like this we need to stick together.


Not a social media guy so I can't simply "like" and be done with it...but I "like" this!


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

This thread reminds me why I like to spend time here. Pretty much a top notch group of posters compared to everywhere else. After spending 5 minutes on monster mouths, archerytalk, or some of the facebook hunting pages and I start hating the hunting community lol.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

colorcountrygunner said:


> This thread reminds me why I like to spend time here. Pretty much a top notch group of posters compared to everywhere else. After spending 5 minutes on monster mouths, archerytalk, or some of the facebook hunting pages and I start hating the hunting community lol.


Man, you're telling me! There is a lot of people saying we need to let the small bucks grow and shoot does instead and that just lights a fire in me haha


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I've only seen a couple people being antagonistic to another's photos and bucks/bulls and they were called out by the community in short order. Its great to see folks step up against such trolling. 

Hard to know where I will be in a decade but for now I will be happy to celebrate the success of hard work no matter the score (which I currently have no clue on how to grade).


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Critter said:


> It is getting bad when we have to start hiding our kills from fellow hunters. There was a time when every truck going down the highway had a deer head showing, now with all the anti hunters the game and fish ask up to cover everything up so that we don't offend them. I live on a main access road into some great hunting here in Colorado, it used to be that when I was working in the yard during the seasons I would notice quite a few nicer set of antlers and even small sets coming down the road headed to the freeway, not no more. The antlers are under tarps or in the back of campers. You can also notice this anywhere along I-70, hunters used to be proud of what they had taken and displayed it as they drove home, but today you might chance to see a set of antlers tied to the top of a ATV trailer as the hunter makes his way back home.
> 
> If a person is disappointed in what they are shooting then perhaps they should stop hunting. And as hunters on a forum we should just congratulate a hunter no matter what he has a picture of. That one thread a couple of weeks ago where a member was telling another that the buck that he shot on a LE hunt could be shot anywhere and that he had a few dozen better ones off of public land, there is no place for something like this we need to stick together.


Well said!! I remember as a lad my pop tying a deer to the front fender of our old (was fairly new then) Plymouth, and was **** proud even if it was a small one. As for the fellow mentioned above, I believe Bax sent him packing:mrgreen:


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

brendo said:


> This is a topic that has been eating at me this year. Everyone posting pics and downplaying the animal that was killed. In my opinion a little disrespectful. Be proud and own it no need to justify! I don't know, Maybe it's just me. I ran across this article that pretty much sums up my thoughts!
> 
> https://www.bowhunting.com/blog/201...ming-quit-making-excuses-shooting-small-buck/


I actually decided not to share my hunt success this year because of this very topic. I honestly felt like guys would give me $hit about something I was proud of. I shot my very first deer this year and did it with my bow. He was a spike buck that I shot on the last day of general season after half a dozen blown stalks and letting similar bucks walk away trying to hold out for something bigger. I even had a run in with the biggest buck I have ever seen alive and walking around the day before, and I was 20 yards further than I was comfortable shooting and they (4 awesome bucks but the one was special) all walked away. The next day my brother and I decided anything legal was getting a look. Shot my first deer at 26 yards, uphill, from my knees, between 2 trees, all without my glasses on! The shot was impressive if I don't say so myself, and it resulted in a double lung shot that had him down 30 yards from where I shot him. I put in a lot of work for my first big game animal and I'm proud of killing a velvet buck, no matter the size. Tastes great too. We have been eating a lot of deer lately, that's what it's all about.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

TPrawitt91 said:


> I actually decided not to share my hunt success this year because of this very topic. I honestly felt like guys would give me $hit about something I was proud of. I shot my very first deer this year and did it with my bow. He was a spike buck that I shot on the last day of general season after half a dozen blown stalks and letting similar bucks walk away trying to hold out for something bigger. I even had a run in with the biggest buck I have ever seen alive and walking around the day before, and I was 20 yards further than I was comfortable shooting and they (4 awesome bucks but the one was special) all walked away. The next day my brother and I decided anything legal was getting a look. Shot my first deer at 26 yards, uphill, from my knees, between 2 trees, all without my glasses on! The shot was impressive if I don't say so myself, and it resulted in a double lung shot that had him down 30 yards from where I shot him. I put in a lot of work for my first big game animal and I'm proud of killing a velvet buck, no matter the size. Tastes great too. We have been eating a lot of deer lately, that's what it's all about.


Here's something you young hunters should think about. Shooting a few young animals during the start of your hunting life is good practice for when the big one steps out. You need that experience of being in spitting distance of an animal and still keeping your **** together enough to pull off an ethical shot. You can only get that experience by shooting a few animals. Plus, there's a great sense of accomplishment when you shoot any buck/doe even if it's a small one.
Don't worry what others think, you're on the right track.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

longbow said:


> Here's something you young hunters should think about. Shooting a few young animals during the start of your hunting life is good practice for when the big one steps out. You need that experience of being in spitting distance of an animal and still keeping your **** together enough to pull off an ethical shot. You can only get that experience by shooting a few animals. Plus, there's a great sense of accomplishment when you shoot any buck/doe even if it's a small one.
> Don't worry what others think, you're on the right track.


i get just as excited for cow as i do a buck or bull. i'm usually happier that i don't have to pack out the antlers. i do remember my first spike white tail where i really got the jitters. life experiences since then certainly gave me practice at controlling my emotions.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

longbow said:


> Here's something you young hunters should think about. Shooting a few young animals during the start of your hunting life is good practice for when the big one steps out. You need that experience of being in spitting distance of an animal and still keeping your **** together enough to pull off an ethical shot. You can only get that experience by shooting a few animals. Plus, there's a great sense of accomplishment when you shoot any buck/doe even if it's a small one.
> Don't worry what others think, you're on the right track.


This^
The more you are successful the more confidence you have when you are under pressure.

Growing up my friends and I would go through a brick or more of .22 per week all year long shooting anything that was legal. Rabbits,rats whatever. By the time we were allowed to shoot at big game it was pretty much by instinct.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Mega props to the mods on this site. Most of the tools get banned in pretty short order.

I hope the militant trophy hunting attitude is on its way out of style. Of course we all want to kill big bucks but there aren’t enough to go around and most of us will be lucky to kill a couple in our lifetimes. The rest of the time it will be bucks that needed another year, aren’t worthy of the tag, etc. Or lots of tag soup. I like to shoot and eat too much. Big bucks, medium bucks, little bucks......all things considered.———-SS


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Baron83 said:


> This is an interesting topic cause i was thinking about this during my hunt this year. I didn't shoot anything for 7 years of the bowhunt cause they weren't (big enough) and gave alot people i knew a hard time about shooting (smaller to me) bucks. But i realized something this year it doesn't matter what size the animal, it's the experience being with family, enjoying time together. any tag that gets filled is an accomplishment no matter what.


Yahoo! A convert! And he did it on his own (though I suspect his family had some influence). Maybe there is hope for some others.

I re-read this thread and like all of the posts, but especially the ones that tell the story of the hunt. Quite often, the smaller antlered ones are more challenging to get than the larger antlered ones. Afterall, LaBron ain't the tallest or heaviest one on the court.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> Quite often, the smaller antlered ones are more challenging to get than the larger antlered ones. .


Your not kidding. When I dropped off my elk this year to the meat cutter. He commented, " you always get the big ones". I replied, "I can't help it, that's all I ever see".
I never see small antlered deer or elk when out in the field hunting or scouting.

Maybe it's time to get my eyes checked!:shock:


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Lord knows I shot my share of spikes and 2 points growing up. 
We took pictures and were very proud. Still proud of those hunts. 
And as was mentioned in a earlier post, they taught me a lot about hunting. 

I get a bigger kick now from a grandson or nephew, niece, or even my daughter that still goes get one,
than when I kill a good one. Heck, my grandson got a better one than I did this year.
And mine was a good buck.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I don't think this mentality applies only to the animals people are harvesting.
People talk this way about the cars, guns and houses they buy or anything else for that matter.
People are always down playing what they just took possession of.
There are also those that take a lot of pride in what they just acquired and will share that with a lot of people around them.

Although I tend to shoot mature big game over younger ones. I will never belittle someone who shoots a young animal. 
I am always really happy for those who shoots younger animals. 
There needs to be a balance anyway. If everyone one ran out and shot the first buck, or bull they saw, then those truly wanting to shoot a younger one or just trying to fill their tag would be far less successful.

I think it's funny how some on this forum have openly admitted they will never comment or like a post that has a mature "trophy" animal in it because they don't want to support that type of activity. 
What a joke, that type of mind set is what is dividing us hunters.
Be happy for everyone's success, no matter the size of animal.


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## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

Having spent 50 yrs hunting the very mismanged California deer herds my philosophy is " I will shoot the biggest deer on the mountain........or the first legal one I see". Now, living in Montana where I have the chance to see bigger headgear on deer a "trophy" to me is any game a hunter legally harvests regardless of size or numbers. I've always justified my bag simply I found it, it was legal and it gave me the opportunity, now my family can enjoy eating it. And just for fun I got to take my 10 yr old grandson on his first hunt with his own MT apprentice deer tag. He did great, sneaking up on a nice 8 pt Whitetail, making sure he had a good rest and taking him with 1 shot. That to me was better than any animals I have taken.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I really hesitated to post this because I didn't want to incite a bunch of jealousy and hate among the UWF ranks but...today I shot this monster Sitka. Let 11/12/2017 be remembered.

I'd like to thank all my sponsors, XtraTuff boots for giving me the traction I needed, Weatherby for blessing the hunting world with the 300 Wby Mag Accumark, Vortex Optics for helping make a 90 yard shot, Fruit of the Loom underwear for keeping my butt comfy, O'Doul's Amber for refreshment, SFW, Mossback Outfitters, Nosler 180 Partitions and Kuiu for the Guide DCS jacket, beanie and gloves.

Outdoor Life should be calling any time now.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

longbow said:


> I really hesitated to post this because I didn't want to incite a bunch of jealousy and hate among the UWF ranks but...today I shot this monster Sitka. Let 11/12/2017 be remembered.
> 
> I'd like to thank all my sponsors, XtraTuff boots for giving me the traction I needed, Weatherby for blessing the hunting world with the 300 Wby Mag Accumark, Vortex Optics for helping make a 90 yard shot, Fruit of the Loom underwear for keeping my butt comfy, O'Doul's Amber for refreshment, SFW, Mossback Outfitters, Nosler 180 Partitions and Kuiu for the Guide DCS jacket, beanie and gloves.
> 
> Outdoor Life should be calling any time now.


Well done! O'douls Amber everytime!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## deljoshua (Jul 29, 2013)

I’ve got a spike, a two point, and one 3 point European mounts on my wall that were all done by myself. Each one of those deer were delicious! I’ve avoided this whole topic by only taking small deer &#55357;&#56841;. My spike is just as cool to me as the 3 point from last year. All of them took a lot of work to find and harvest and they all brought a sense of accomplishment as well as a lot of memories of me and the kids on the mountain.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I still like to shoot a good one if I get a chance.


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## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

Here's my grandson at 18 mos with his first deer, and 3 yrs with his and grandmas forky.[/ATTACH] plus a few of his other shared critters.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

bfr said:


> Here's my grandson at 18 mos with his first deer, and 3 yrs with his and grandmas forky.[/ATTACH] plus a few of his other shared critters.


I bet you're glad you're a recovering Californian! Looks like Montana is treating you good.


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## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

Yeah, I escaped 8 yrs ago, definitely enjoying not wondering IF I'll see a legal deer but deciding which one since a lot of the districts allow any deer or are mule deer buck or either sex whitetail. Plus the differences in game warden attitudes, in Cali you're treated as if you've broken the law from the start, here the exact opposite.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

DallanC said:


> I just had a discussion on this in PMs. Alot of people here at UWN have given up posting pictures due to negative comments.
> 
> -DallanC


The thought passed through my mind to not post pics again here but after reading this thread I realize all the help and support I've gotten here. A couple of negs will not deter me.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

This a pet peeve of mine. I can't tell you how many people bring a critter and then apologize for its size, or lack there of. Like they are happy enough with it to preserve the memory and they are willing to spend their hard earned cash on it, but they down play it. 

"It doesn't score well, but....." "It isn't as big as that one....." "I know it isn't the biggest, but...." I think in today's trophy media, it makes some people feel inadequate-- even unethical to shoot something not considered a trophy. 

All I care about is-- What does it score on the 1-10 scale. Most easily answer "A 10!" Except for some of the larger bucks-- some of those clients say an 8 or a 9 because it is missing a G3 or has short beams.... 

.


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## callofthewild (Sep 7, 2007)

you know there are a lot of white packages in the freezer labeled deer 17'. and i have not yet been able to tell if the one i cook up has been the 2 point 3 point or the 4x5 from this fall. but i will always remember how those deer got in that freezer.


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## macanudo (Feb 20, 2015)

Trophy hunting can take the joy out of hunting if you aren't careful. I have friends in a constant state of depression that they can't find the perfect buck. 
Mac


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Soap box rant:

My first big game animal was a doe mule deer on a late season two doe permit when I was 14. I remember feeling so horrible after I shot her, I felt like I had done something wrong. I explained how I was feeling to my father and he explained that taking the life of an animal should not be something a person should minimize, boast about, or get a big ego over - you can tell he never was a trophy hunter. From that conversation with him at age 14 until now, I have never thought the same about hunting. I am far more concerned about having a wonderful experience, out in the field, with friends/family and could never refer to an animal as a dink, or anything else that might seem disrespectful/condescending to an animal. 

Rant over!


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

longbow said:


> I really hesitated to post this because I didn't want to incite a bunch of jealousy and hate among the UWF ranks but...today I shot this monster Sitka. Let 11/12/2017 be remembered.
> 
> I'd like to thank all my sponsors, XtraTuff boots for giving me the traction I needed, Weatherby for blessing the hunting world with the 300 Wby Mag Accumark, Vortex Optics for helping make a 90 yard shot, Fruit of the Loom underwear for keeping my butt comfy, O'Doul's Amber for refreshment, SFW, Mossback Outfitters, Nosler 180 Partitions and Kuiu for the Guide DCS jacket, beanie and gloves.
> 
> Outdoor Life should be calling any time now.


I hate to break the news to you, but your missing two critical elements to get a jingle from a magazine - your hat brim has a little too much curvature to it and you don't have white rimmed sunglasses on. 

Thanks for sharing - everytime you post something about your adventures, a little jealously is incited.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Along with the flat brim and the white sunglasses........
Your in the magazine for sure if your truck has black rims........


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Wait......people are still printing magazines? Who knew?———-SS


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

While we’re on the subject, another symptom of trophy hunting mania that cracks me up is the shameless man-crushing that goes on. Kill a couple big bucks, spread it around the internet, and other guys have you as a screen saver on their phone.———-SS


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

Springville Shooter said:


> While we're on the subject, another symptom of trophy hunting mania that cracks me up is the shameless man-crushing that goes on. Kill a couple big bucks, spread it around the internet, and other guys have you as a screen saver on their phone.----SS


Or just be Dan Bilzerian. That guy is an idiot, but he has a whole bro-army out there waiting to defend him and his lifestyle.


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

I've had this debate before, both internally and externally. Honestly, I think the whole "trophy" and scoring system culture of hunting is cancer to our sport. I get SO sick and tired of hearing what's already been mentioned, the "he's not the one I was looking for" or "he's not the biggest buck out there". Own your kill! Regardless of what he scored, he'll be good eating, provide meat for the family, and will be a story told every year around hunting season for the rest of your life. Is that not a trophy in itself?


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

This year on the archery I passed on a few 2 points. And ended up not filling my tag. 
Then my son shot a 2 point on the rifle. 
After eating some steaks I have convinced myself I won't pass on another 2 point on the extended. 
On a side note has anyone else noticed the deer and elk are extra tasty this year. All that grass they had done them some good. 
This years deer is the best I have ever had.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I have only skimmed a couple pages of this thread. I couldn't bring myself to read it all. I didn't know people were so uptight about hunting. Actually, yes I did. 

So to be more accurate, it always surprises me how uptight people get about hunting. 

While people are jumping on their soapboxes...I guess I'll join in the fun. Hunt for the reasons that you like to, and let others do the same. It's just hunting, and it's supposed to be fun. Sometimes I need to tell myself that when I see people get so frustrated by the actions of others that have no impact upon them whatsoever.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> I have only skimmed a couple pages of this thread. I couldn't bring myself to read it all. I didn't know people were so uptight about hunting. Actually, yes I did.
> 
> So to be more accurate, it always surprises me how uptight people get about hunting.
> 
> While people are jumping on their soapboxes...I guess I'll join in the fun. Hunt for the reasons that you like to, and let others do the same. It's just hunting, and it's supposed to be fun. Sometimes I need to tell myself that when I see people get so frustrated by the actions of others that have no impact upon them whatsoever.


Well, be careful there. You brought up a subject where the actions of others do have an impact. Extreme trophy hunting has impacted every facet of big game hunting over the last decade: Drawing odds, target buck to doe ratios, hunt dates, cost of tags, availability of access, NR tag allotments, raffle tags, "conservation" tags, posse hunting, paid scouting, unit restructuring, increased commercial hunting, increased political activism motivated by trophy revenue, increased effort and technology used to gain advantage.......just to name a few.

Not that these things are necessarily "bad" but they definitely impact everyone. I bet that 20years ago, less than 10% of hunters even knew what the B&C minimums were and a "180" buck was a lot of hanging meat!---SS


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Springville Shooter said:


> Vanilla said:
> 
> 
> > I have only skimmed a couple pages of this thread. I couldn't bring myself to read it all. I didn't know people were so uptight about hunting. Actually, yes I did.
> ...


Don't forget the non or even anti hunters that see our pictures. I can't imagine the picture that paints of what kind of appreciation we have for the animals killed. We don't need to give them more ammo!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I've always justified my kills because it's the only way to make the voices in my head calm down for a bit


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I've killed big ones, and I've killed little ones. 
It's all good. 
I don't worry about what others have taken.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I consider myself a trophy hunter anymore. I don't really need the meat and unless I do need meat I'll let the little ones go home to mama. But if the freezer is getting empty then when the end of the hunt is getting close I shoot any of them the have antlers. 

The only thing that really gets me wondering is when someone is on a 4 wheeler and stops to talk then they complain that there are no big bucks left anymore. 
Sometimes I wonder about those folks. 

As for shooting a animal, shoot what makes you happy. If you are going to complain about that 2 pt on your 4 wheeler all I can ask is why did you shoot it?


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> Well, be careful there. You brought up a subject where the actions of others do have an impact. Extreme trophy hunting has impacted every facet of big game hunting over the last decade: Drawing odds, target buck to doe ratios, hunt dates, cost of tags, availability of access, NR tag allotments, raffle tags, "conservation" tags, posse hunting, paid scouting, unit restructuring, increased commercial hunting, increased political activism motivated by trophy revenue, increased effort and technology used to gain advantage.......just to name a few.
> 
> Not that these things are necessarily "bad" but they definitely impact everyone. I bet that 20years ago, less than 10% of hunters even knew what the B&C minimums were and a "180" buck was a lot of hanging meat!---SS


This is the post of the week. Maybe post of the month.

..


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

Just really sad to see society has turned into the "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I AM BETTER THAN YOU" mentality........ No wonders society as a whole feels discriminated against over something and everything in life.

I have to say, UWN is filled with guys that do not fit this "NORMAL MOLD" and is full of down to earth guys that just enjoy getting out and enjoying the moment. That is the reason this is the only forum I ever get onto any more and enjoy. Met several outstanding guys from here!!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> Well, be careful there. You brought up a subject where the actions of others do have an impact. Extreme trophy hunting has impacted every facet of big game hunting over the last decade: Drawing odds, target buck to doe ratios, hunt dates, cost of tags, availability of access, NR tag allotments, raffle tags, "conservation" tags, posse hunting, paid scouting, unit restructuring, increased commercial hunting, increased political activism motivated by trophy revenue, increased effort and technology used to gain advantage.......just to name a few.
> 
> Not that these things are necessarily "bad" but they definitely impact everyone. I bet that 20years ago, less than 10% of hunters even knew what the B&C minimums were and a "180" buck was a lot of hanging meat!---SS


It's a huge stretch to suggest that someone downplaying the size of their animal with things like "he's not the biggest" or "he wasn't the one I was hoping to get" is equal to "Extreme trophy hunting."

I'm not a trophy hunter. Attached is a picture of three of the last four deer I've killed. They are little. By saying they are little, and saying I wish they all looked like the bucks Ridge kills, you can say I'm a horrible person that is ruining hunting. Or you can say I'm just a hunter having fun, dreaming of killing big bucks. I put myself in the latter category, but feel free to place me wherever anyone wants to place me. No sweat off my back.

May I submit that those who like to constantly cannibalize other hunters for not doing things the way they think they should are having just as much of a negative impact on hunting as the "extreme trophy hunters?" In my opinion, of course.

It's just hunting. Have fun. Enjoy it for the reasons you like to enjoy it. And so long as it's within the framework of the law, let others do the same. Just one man's opinion, I guess.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Stack those bad boys up and you might have enough bone to equal the back fork on the left side of a ridgetop buck!


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## Baron83 (May 24, 2016)

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2017/11/15/mule-deer-storm/


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Baron83 said:


> https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2017/11/15/mule-deer-storm/


This is a fantastic article. It encompasses my feelings on the topic.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I'd rather be lucky than good anytime.
Great story.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Stack those bad boys up and you might have enough bone to equal the back fork on the left side of a ridgetop buck!


 Easy there.:roll::roll:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> It's a huge stretch to suggest that someone downplaying the size of their animal with things like "he's not the biggest" or "he wasn't the one I was hoping to get" is equal to "Extreme trophy hunting."
> 
> I'm not a trophy hunter. Attached is a picture of three of the last four deer I've killed. They are little. By saying they are little, and saying I wish they all looked like the bucks Ridge kills, you can say I'm a horrible person that is ruining hunting. Or you can say I'm just a hunter having fun, dreaming of killing big bucks. I put myself in the latter category, but feel free to place me wherever anyone wants to place me. No sweat off my back.
> 
> ...


"And so long as it's within the framework of the law, let others do the same."
Eureka! We have found the dilemma! If you don't like the way someone is doing it, then make a law against it, thus putting it within the framework of the law. That way you can prevent others from doing it their way.

I can't hike around the mountain like I used to and I hunt with a bow, so I make the animals come to me by hunting waterholes which I also bait, just in case the weather is too wet. But, of course, that's unethical to some even though it doesn't make a difference to the way they hunt and it's legal. SOOO, let's make it illegal. That way, ol' Elkfromabove will have to take his chances with the weather or maybe he'll quit hunting and reduce the competition for tags. Wouldn't that be great!

Well, Elkfromabove's not gonna let that happen if he can help it! And that goes for any of the other things that make it easier to hunt trophies at the expense of opportunity.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I’ll stand up for ole elkfromabove on that one. Bait those water holes, and I hope you kill a giant!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I'll stand up for ole elkfromabove on that one. Bait those water holes, and I hope you kill a giant!


Well, thank you very much. It's been proposed several times at the Southern RAC. And I did get a tall 3-point buck deer this year at a guzzler I've baited with apples and salt for about 3 years and I hit a 15" pronghorn at a water tank that the farmer salted that I was unable to locate/recover after 6 hours of trailing him visually in the hot sun because there was no blood trail due to the failure of an expandable broadhead (Rage) that I tried for the first time upon the recommendation of a friend. (The tiny screw holding the blades must of worked itself loose during practice 'cause I found both blades on the ground in the blind 2 days later.)

But having said that all that, perhaps you may not be so anxious to stand up for me as I push back on some of the other issues I've heard over the years that promote the trophy/quality/mature (or whatever else they are calling it these days) style of hunting at the expense of opportunity. Mind you, I'm NOT against trophy hunting per se and have proudly taken a couple myself, but I'm tired of letting those that have trophy hunting so high on their list of priorities that they are willing to manipulate and maneuver the regulations, rules, laws and policies in order to make it easier for them to take a trophy while making it harder for me and others like me to get a tag and use it to take a "pisscutter" OR a trophy if I/we choose.

I don't think I have to name all those issues 'cause I've been pushing back for several years and you likely already know them. But it sure would be nice if I had more of you stand up for ol' elkfromabove and the other (40,000 or 50,000 like me) by going to the meetings where the manipulation and maneuvering takes place. :grin:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> which I also bait, just in case the weather is too wet. And that goes for any of the other things that make it easier to hunt trophies at the expense of opportunity.


That is interesting input-- I always figured that baiting makes it easier to hunt trophies and/or have success, which in turn cuts opportunity to hunt.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Packout said:


> That is interesting input-- I always figured that baiting makes it easier to hunt trophies and/or have success, which in turn cuts opportunity to hunt.


Easier to hunt trophies (or any animal) and/or have success? It depends on who you're talking to I guess. Preparing a blind site or putting up a tree stand (or 2 or 3) every year and maintaining them without spooking the animals prior to and during the season or seasons, THEN sitting still for 4 to 8 hours a day for a few days waiting for the right animal to show up isn't some folks' idea of easy or fun. I enjoy it, but I know MANY people who think I'm nuts.

So how would you take it if I attempted to make it illegal to do what you enjoy doing while hunting even though it doesn't effect the way I hunt? To be honest with you, I love the way most of you hunt because you keep the animals moving and sooner or later they'll come by me. And since I'm not that fussy, it really makes it easier for me. Incidentally, that's also why I don't care if it's "overcrowded". Sure, baiting makes it easier for me, but probably not for you. You do better with spot and stalk or stillhunting or roadhunting or however you do it.

Now, whether or not it makes it easier to hunt trophies is immaterial when we're talking about general units which are supposed to be managed for opportunity. And that's all I hunt. I don't effect trophy hunting on your LE unit because I don't trophy hunt your LE unit. (With some exceptions, I'll concede, because deer, elk and antelope archery seasons are simultaneous.) In any case, if you hunt a general hunt, then expect it to be managed for opportunities and please stop trying make it into a unit managed for trophies.

Edited: Just for the record, I usually hunt deer now on the Panguitch Lake Unit and per the 2016 stats, it is within the buck to doe ratio (19.7) and over the population objective by 1,500 deer. That means it has 230 more excess bucks that would have to be taken before we would have to cut tags per the buck to doe ratio (OR 363 more per the population object and the buck to doe ratio) and since we now issue 3,272 buck tags with a 34% overall success rate, we would have to increase the overall success rate to 45.1%, an 11.1% increase, to make any difference and that's not going to happen with baiting, I assure you. Now, if the population drops below objective, then, of course we'll lose opportunity as we should, but that drop would not be caused by hunting bucks no matter how we do it.

2016 Panguitch Lake Unit stats:
Archery----------------601 tags------------133 harvested----------------22.1%
Any Weapon---------1353 tags------------457 harvested----------------33.8%
Muzzleloader----------569 tags------------208 harvested----------------36.6%
Any Weapon Youth---362 tags------------171 harvested---------------- 47.2%
Dedicated Hunter-----387 tags------------142 harvested----------------36.7%
Total------------------3272 tags----------1112 harvested----------------34.0%


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> Easier to hunt trophies (or any animal) and/or have success? It depends on who you're talking to I guess. Preparing a blind site or putting up a tree stand (or 2 or 3) every year and maintaining them without spooking the animals prior to and during the season or seasons, THEN sitting still for 4 to 8 hours a day for a few days waiting for the right animal to show up isn't some folks' idea of easy or fun. I enjoy it, but I know MANY people who think I'm nuts.
> 
> So how would you take it if I attempted to make it illegal to do what you enjoy doing while hunting even though it doesn't effect the way I hunt? To be honest with you, I love the way most of you hunt because you keep the animals moving and sooner or later they'll come by me. And since I'm not that fussy, it really makes it easier for me. Incidentally, that's also why I don't care if it's "overcrowded". Sure, baiting makes it easier for me, but probably not for you. You do better with spot and stalk or stillhunting or roadhunting or however you do it.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what all this has to do with the OP?
It would be interesting conversation for a different thread.

Like I said before, I think people downplay their harvest because that's just the way of our times.
We are told that it is bad to be prideful but I think too many people get confused and not realizing there's a difference between being prideful and taking pride in something. Like the buck or bull you harvest for example.
It's ok to take pride in what ever you kill but just brag about how much bigger yours is over everyone else around you.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

ridgetop said:


> I
> Like I said before, I think people downplay their harvest because that's just the way of our times.


No, I dont think thats it at all.



> We are told that it is bad to be prideful but I think too many people get confused and not realizing there's a difference between being prideful and taking pride in something. Like the buck or bull you harvest for example.


I think people go hunting, see something and get all excited and shoot it. THEN they put the tape on it and ground shinkage mentality kicks in and they feel they need explain why they killed what they killed. They forget all about the buck fever excitement in the heat of the moment that lead to the kill, and worry more about what other people think after the kill.



> It's ok to take pride in what ever you kill but just brag about how much bigger yours is over everyone else around you.


I've killed a couple deer bigger than some ever will, and I've killed alot of deer some people wont even stop the truck for. All of them were fun to shoot. I'm old enough to not give a rat's ass what other people think of me or what I shoot 

-DallanC


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

DallanC said:


> No, I dont think thats it at all.
> 
> I think people go hunting, see something and get all excited and shoot it. THEN they put the tape on it and ground shinkage mentality kicks in and they feel they need explain why they killed what they killed. They forget all about the buck fever excitement in the heat of the moment that lead to the kill, and worry more about what other people think after the kill.
> 
> ...


Maybe your the exception. 
Maybe there are a few people that are hung up on a score card but I don't think the general public are.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I personally take pride in all the bucks my hunting party kill. When I get back to work and people ask "did you get or "catch" anything"
I'll reply, "we got a couple real nice bucks"
but then they say, "that nice but what did you get"
I'll say, "I didn't kill anything but it's a team effort with the guys I hunt with and their success is my success" 
Then they usually roll their eyes and go on their way, thinking I'm a pretty crappy hunter and are only living on others success. :grin:
I definitely have been disappointed a few times about what I've put my tag on over the years. I've accidently shot the wrong buck before and had a few with real ground shrinkage but I've never apologized for what I've killed and hope that I never will. I just start planning for the next year and hope I have learned from my mistakes.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

:shock::shock........:Oh no DallanC......is your biggest one bigger than my biggest one...........

:grin:

Actually my "best trophy" is probably a little 16" 4 x 3 I took on the bow hunt 8 or 9 years ago. 
My 3 year old grandson was with me while his dad hunted another spot when 2 - 4 points wandered by us in spite of our noise. 
He was sooo excited. I got a 36 yard shot at the smaller one and drilled it. It walked off about 40 yards and went down. We went back and got the 4 wheelie (as he called them then) and some help and got the deer out. 
He is 12 now and still points to that draw and talks about that deer when we go by there on the way to the cabin when he goes with me. 

The "rack" is still on the wall in the garage.


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## lucky duck (Dec 17, 2008)

Back on track.......
You see those two boys learning how to use nature and feed themselves off of the land......... That is how I justify what I kill.

And the smiles on their faces too.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

It's all about definitions. In the minds of many, if not most hunters, the words "trophy", "quality", "mature", "big', "monster", etc. not only define the size and configuration of the antlers/horns/skulls of game animals, it defines the animal itself AND the hunt AND the hunter. A "big" deer is not a big deer, it's a deer with big antlers. A "quality" elk hunt isn't a quality hunt, it's a hunt for an elk with "quality" antlers. And a real "trophy" deer hunter is one that frequently shoots deer with high scoring (per B&C, P&Y, etc.) antlers and who refuses to shoot anything "smaller". So, when some of us "settle" for an animal who's antlers don't score very well, and because we're in competition with other hunters, we feel we have to tell other hunters not to score us by the animal we just shot, 'cause we don't want to feel like a loser. 

For me, that's a game I choose not to play. I'm in competition with a wild animal with very acute senses and instincts, not with some hunter who has more time, money, skills, energy and/or desire to hunt than I do. My opponent presents some very satisfying challenges and every time I outwit that wild opponent, no matter the size of the antlers, if any, I'm the winner. Not only that, I usually get second or third chances to outwit him or her if I blow the first one or two. In any case, if the animal is down, I've won and there's no need to apologize for that.


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