# What do we do about hunter recruitment ?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

What do we do to improve recruitment both in youth and non- hunters? What are the best ways to introduce people to hunting ? The discussion came up in another thread and at some point things need to take a better turn rather than turning downward .


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

It just seems odd to me that so many kids today need any convincing that hunting is fun. For as long as I can remember I have LOVED to hunt. If my dad could've taken me hunting every single day as a kid I would have been all for that. What's wrong with these kids that would rather spend a day with an X-Box controller in their hands than a day with a Remington 870 in their hands? It boggles the mind!

One major obstacle I can see to recruiting new hunters is the loss of opportunity. I didn't have it as good as my dad, my dad didn't have it as good as my grandpa, and my kids won't have it as good as me. It's sad to say, but that is the honest to goodness truth.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> It just seems odd to me that so many kids today need any convincing that hunting is fun. For as long as I can remember I have LOVED to hunt. If my dad could've taken me hunting every single day as a kid I would have been all for that. What's wrong with these kids that would rather spend a day with an X-Box controller in their hands than a day with a Remington 870 in their hands? It boggles the mind!
> 
> One major obstacle I can see to recruiting new hunters is the loss of opportunity. I didn't have it as good as my dad, my dad didn't have it as good as my grandpa, and my kids won't have it as good as me. It's sad to say, but that is the honest to goodness truth.


I agree, I think it's the self entitlement and yet laziness that our society has come to be. Video games, electronics , whatever it may be kids now and even adults now are afraid to put effort into something they might fail at or has no gurantee. Hunting cost money and time and there's no gurantee that the money and work will pay off, more times than not it won't. We give, give, give to youth now and to me it sets unrealistic futures. You work for things and get fulfillment because of the work not because you got a cheat to get there. Our society is an entitled, lazy society in America now for the most part .

Opportunity wise, I don't know what else you can do, there's tons of loop holes for youth and now a loop hole past hunters safety. Opportunity isn't the main issue in my opinion, it's work ethic and setting unrealistic expectations on TV and magazines for hunting .


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

By the reports on this site and a few others, I think that we, as dads, are doing a fantastic job recruiting the next generation. Don't worry 1-I.......we got this. You worry about making sure that there are plenty of animals for our kids to shoot. It's almost napkin season you know?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> By the reports on this site and a few others, I think that we, as dads, are doing a fantastic job recruiting the next generation. Don't worry 1-I.......we got this. You worry about making sure that there are plenty of animals for our kids to shoot. It's almost napkin season you know?


By the looks of youth bow tags leftover, and hunter recruitment falling across our nation , along with destruction of habitat and a society that is becoming ever further away from knowing where anything they eat or drink comes from or knowing basic skills and knowledge there's plenty who aren't doing a fantastic job. You have a tons more people and a ton less hunters per capita than ever before. Ensuring huntingis future comes with ensuring the future of wild places and wild things, you can't do that without funding from people like us and that funding is continuing to slip away in many areas. We here on this forum are the minority not the majority , conservation is an ever changing battle that needs backing and we are losing the ground roots for it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't even know if it has anything to do with taking the kids out into the field from the day that they are born. I know of some that have been hunting with their dads every year from the time that they could walk that want nothing to do with hunting. It is almost a imposition to even ask them if they would like to go on a hunt. I know that when I was a kid all anyone had to say was anything about hunting or fishing and I was ready weather I had a tag or not. I am one of the members here that had to wait until I was 16 to purchase a big game license and am now in my 60's but will still go hunting in multiple states at the drop of a hat. I remember devouring the monthly issues of Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, and Sports Afield every month and couldn't wait until the next months issues. 

But you don't have to look at the last few years to see that it has been changing. While I never got any time off from school I remember my nephews and nieces getting the Friday before the hunt off from school. Then there were the adults. Who here remembers the traffic jambs up Spanish Fork Canyon, or Daniels Canyon to get to the hunting camp, those have been gone for a long time way before there were any problems getting tags. 

Who knows what the answer is but I do know that the kids need to show a interest in hunting and from what I have seen in the younger generation it just isn't there.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I don't know where the threshold is on dissatisfaction is for a majority of hunters. Some guys need to see 50 buck a day. Some can see 1 buck a week and still be satisfied. But the issue and answer lies in hunter satisfaction. If dad is excited 12 months a yr about hunting the kids are far more likely to be also even with gameboy's and x boxes. If dad is just going through the motions and going hunting because that's what he's done for 30yrs. Not buying a new riffle for 20 yrs and still using the same box of 30-06 shells for over a decade. Then kids will think the same about hunting. 

So why would it make sense to strive for 500,000 people going for 100,000 tags. When it should really be 50,000 tags available to achieve the quality of hunting that recruits and retains hunters for a lifetime.

Not that I would want it. But 5000 hunters would keep "hunting alive" in Utah.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Now if we would understand a buck killed by a cougar is a buck that can't be killed by a hunter. Regardless of weather or habitat. And a doe killed by a cougar was a doe that will not give birth to a buck for a hunter to shoot. And reduce cougar hunters could harvest more.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

could it just be that some kids like it and some don't? I love hunting, and I went on TONS of unsuccessful fishing and hunting trips growing up. But that didn't diminish the love and the addiction I gained for hunting and fishing. There are fathers who are convinced that kids need to kill animals very early/often in order to want to stick with hunting. That wasn't the case with me and several others I know, so that example of kids need lots of "action" to stay interested, didn't hold water with me... There are some that are convinced that if you have kids shoot trophy animals without having the appreciation for what that means, that they'll eventually quit hunting.. etc.....So there are lots of opinions and theories out there. There is opportunity in many realms of the outdoor world and it just comes down to taking a kid out there as often as you can and make it fun for them no matter what, even on those days where you don't see any game, make it fun like my dad did. Some people develop a passion for it and others don't. You can't force it upon them.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Our decisions and the example we set have greater impact than just about anything else, followed by not forcing your kids out into wet and/or freezing weather that can turn them off to outdoor activities completely. Before I married my wife we took several camping trips together to places without running water or toilets, I wanted to make sure she was comfortable with going in the woods for days on end for fishing and hunting. One day we will do the same when we have children.

As a side note, there isn't a single video game in our home and never will be.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

30-06-hunter said:


> As a side note, there isn't a single video game in our home and never will be.


This would be interesting to see with all the apps for phones now days not to mention in the years to come. There are also other activities that kids want to participate in other than hunting with sports being one of them.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Critter said:


> This would be interesting to see with all the apps for phones now days not to mention in the years to come. There are also other activities that kids want to participate in other than hunting with sports being one of them.


I was thinking the same thing. I was one of the guys that said that the kids would never have video games and then it was that they didn't need a cell phone. I gave on both of them. Much like my grandparents did with my parents on the TV.

As stated before the outdoors is enjoyable as it is. People either get it or they don't. No different than those that feel more comfortable in a city setting than the country. Passion can't be forced on a person.

There are a lot of hunters in this world and a ton of them out west and in Utah. Give people opportunity and exposure and some will continue. Some won't.

Others will have opportunity and cry that it is not the opportunity that they want or that others need.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Yup, my kids chose school and sports over hunting this year. Am I disappointed? No way. Like me, they will have some years where they hunt more than others. My oldest is striving to get into college and my youngest is involved as a cheerleader for youth football. Doesn't mean that they are lazy or bad. They are also fully recruited as hunters and will always be in support of the cause. 

Try to identify something that matters more than the generational passing on of the sportsman mentality, ethics, and passion combined with morals, work ethic, and citizenship. Thats what I'm striving to do with my kids and will with my grand kids.-----SS


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

utahgolf said:


> could it just be that some kids like it and some don't? I love hunting, and I went on TONS of unsuccessful fishing and hunting trips growing up. But that didn't diminish the love and the addiction I gained for hunting and fishing. There are fathers who are convinced that kids need to kill animals very early/often in order to want to stick with hunting. That wasn't the case with me and several others I know, so that example of kids need lots of "action" to stay interested, didn't hold water with me... There are some that are convinced that if you have kids shoot trophy animals without having the appreciation for what that means, that they'll eventually quit hunting.. etc.....So there are lots of opinions and theories out there. There is opportunity in many realms of the outdoor world and it just comes down to taking a kid out there as often as you can and make it fun for them no matter what, even on those days where you don't see any game, make it fun like my dad did. Some people develop a passion for it and others don't. You can't force it upon them.


Yep I would say most fanatical hunters are born. Just give them a taste and they take care of the rest.

States like Pennsylvania, Alabama and Georgia don't have a recruitment retention issues like we have all over the West.

Could predators or lack there of be playing any role in this?


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Nothing because if there are not more tags everybody going to be upset when they can draw a tag. Hard to recruit if you tell someone they cant do this every year.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

People can hunt every year. Multiple times per year. Multiple species with many different weapons.

The question is not whether a person can get a hunting tag. The question is whether they want one or not.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Critter said:


> This would be interesting to see with all the apps for phones now days not to mention in the years to come. There are also other activities that kids want to participate in other than hunting with sports being one of them.


Not a video game on my smart phone either. As for the future, we will still have a CHOICE as to what we have on our phones and in our homes. Sports are always an open opportunity in our family, creates camaraderie, communication, and physical fitness opportunities.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I don't buy the video game thing either. I played so much "goldeneye," "mortal combat" and "nba jam" growing up it was ridiculous. but I couldn't wait to hit the hills when it was time to go hunting. I don't play any video games at all now, I have zero patience for it. But boy I use to sit there for hours playing game after game. I truly think people are wired for the "pain" and "torture" that goes along with waking up in the early hours, sitting in the marsh in december with leaky waders and thinking your foot might freeze off just hoping a duck will come into the dekes, or trudging through mud and snow while hauling an elk quarter on your back, and knowing you have several more painful trips to pack out the rest of the elk...and even after those grueling experiences, you're just as eager to do it all over again.. It takes a special/crazy person to want to stick with that!


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

My brother and I were both raised on hunting and fishing, and as kids, I think we both really enjoyed it.

As adults, my brother has really gone away from that part of things, and I don't fault him for it. (though, we sure miss his wit on the times we're out)

So here I am with a 13 year old son who--just yesterday--bagged his first buck, an 11 year old daughter and an 8 year old son who--magically--want to do the same as their big brother...

At a time like RIGHT NOW, it's really easy to have them all interested in hunting... success just happened, but I can tell you this... a week ago, I really wondered if my son would even "want" to go...

All we can do as parents--and sportsmen--is give them opportunity... and be willing to give THEM 100% of what we can offer them... after that, THEY get the final say for THEM.

If I was reading my son's body language, I would have told you he didn't want to go hunting yesterday... the fact was, he did want to go, so I'm glad I asked a simple question instead of "reading into it".

Will he hunt next year? I'll bet he will. 

Will he hunt the year after that? Time will tell.

As UtahGolf put it, it's up to the hunter.

We have a responsibility to show and teach them about what's available... if they don't want to do it, it's also our responsibility to respect that decision.

I don't like Football, but if my son decided to be on the football team, I would be right there rooting him on in every game. (after I'd tried to talk him out of it of course  ... maybe I really do have a bias against football)

I think you get my point though.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Yep I would say most fanatical hunters are born. Just give them a taste and they take care of the rest.
> 
> States like Pennsylvania, Alabama and Georgia don't have a recruitment retention issues like we have all over the West.
> 
> +1


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

Kids have far more opportunity to hunt now than when I first got into it 26 years ago. We don't need any newly created special hunt days, just take your kids hunting. We are all different, but that's all it took for me.


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

Why do we need to recruit more with less tags being offered every year?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

CROC said:


> Why do we need to recruit more with less tags being offered every year?


Because the interest needs to be there in order to have people who will continue to support hunting, conservation organizations, and protect and enhance our views as well as there wildlife and habitat, you have to have the income or the outcome will be less wildlife, less wild places, and a vague and disappointing future for hunting and the game we hunt.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

We could do without conservation groups. Habitat restoration has proven to be dollar per critter unsustainable at best and in most cases not effective. It does make folks feel good though. 

Don't blur saving wildlife with saving hunting. Everyone wants to protect wildlife. Hunters and non hunters alike. It's a farce that hunters save wildlife. They save hunting. No kidding stop hunting dissolve the DWR and wildlife can take care of themselves. And non hunters have more input ultimately than hunters. 

These are symptoms and pitfalls hunters will face so long as they strive to foster a "natural" wildlife tapestry. Cause hunters are predators and if your gonna let predators be natural. Responsible hunter harvest will be marginalized. 

And if it's the legacy of hunting one wants to protect. It's widely available today and going strong as ever east of the Mississippi.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> We could do without conservation groups. Habitat restoration has proven to be dollar per critter unsustainable at best and in most cases not effective. It does make folks feel good though.
> 
> Don't blur saving wildlife with saving hunting. Everyone wants to protect wildlife. Hunters and non hunters alike. It's a farce that hunters save wildlife. They save hunting. No kidding stop hunting dissolve the DWR and wildlife can take care of themselves. And non hunters have more input ultimately than hunters.
> 
> ...


Your so far wrong. Hunters poor more money in than anyone, protecting and preserving habitat is a huge key to future wildlife populations, and habitat rehabilitation especially in burned areas with the current encroachment a of cheat grass is very important . You're someone who can't give up the ghost on predators. Some affect sure, a big or most significant affect absolutely not.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Care to site examples habitat dollars increasing wildlife numbers. 

No one does nature better than Mother Nature herself. She could do without our input.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Protecting and enhancing habitat does have a beneficial response from wildlife. Crap habitat = crap wildlife numbers. Animals have evolved over time with specific needs (habitat) and if those needs aren't met, the animals move on to habitat that suits their needs or they die. I don't think it's that hard to understand. Now, we can have an argument of where the cost/benefit analysis breaks over where it is less effective to continue to pour money into a diminishing return, but in general, managing for optimum habitat is going to produce optimum wildlife numbers in return.

As to recruiting more youth hunters, and how to do so, the hunting society has to largely get away from the "all inches, all the time" mentality. Hunting shows that make it look like they're killing animals in a short 30 minute episode probably don't help either. There needs to be more opportunity and fewer restrictions if we are to really increase hunter numbers. More restrictions = fewer tags = fewer hunters. You do the math from there.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> People can hunt every year. Multiple times per year. Multiple species with many different weapons.
> 
> The question is not whether a person can get a hunting tag. The question is whether they want one or not.


While this statement is true, I doubt many people are willing to do anything to hunt. When talking recruitment, just having a permit isn't enough. It needs to be a permit for a place the hunter is willing to hunt and for game they can possibly kill. For example, I'd wager I hunt more than the average Joe. If all I could have is a Box Elder deer permit then I am skipping the hunt. If my sons don't draw their 1-5 choices of deer permits, they won't be buying the "youth archery tags".

All I know is what I see and the following tends to ring true from my observations of friends--
-Kids who kill large trophies too early lose interest later.
-Kids who kill too much at a younger age tend to loose interest later.
-kids who are never successful tend to lose interest later.
-Kids who never pay for their own tags tend to lose interest later.
-Adults, whose kids stop hunting, tend to lose interest later.
-Adults who take it way too seriously tend to cause their kids to lose interest.
-Planning too far in advance is a turn-off. States that have no drawing and a surplus of game will always attract the last minute hunters.
Of course those are broad-based, blanket statements, but they seem to hold water over time. As was said before, everyone is different.

Gotta make it enjoyable no matter the age.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Packout said:


> All I know is what I see and the following tends to ring true from my observations of friends--
> -Kids who kill large trophies too early lose interest later.
> -Kids who kill too much at a younger age tend to loose interest later.
> -kids who are never successful tend to lose interest later.
> ...


Bingo...great observations Packout!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Care to site examples habitat dollars increasing wildlife numbers.
> 
> No one does nature better than Mother Nature herself. She could do without our input.


We've tampered with Mother Nature by destroying it. We introduced cheat grass, we develop and ruin the land ... So on. It's not hard to understand you're just trying not to , anyway back to hunter recruitment .


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Packout said:


> While this statement is true, I doubt many people are willing to do anything to hunt. When talking recruitment, just having a permit isn't enough. It needs to be a permit for a place the hunter is willing to hunt and for game they can possibly kill. For example, I'd wager I hunt more than the average Joe. If all I could have is a Box Elder deer permit then I am skipping the hunt. If my sons don't draw their 1-5 choices of deer permits, they won't be buying the "youth archery tags".
> 
> All I know is what I see and the following tends to ring true from my observations of friends--
> -Kids who kill large trophies too early lose interest later.
> ...


That perfectly summed up my point. It is as if the only hunting that matters is for buck deer.

There is so much more than that. Rabbit, Hare, Chukar, Ducks, Geese, Pheasant, Grouse, Bear, Cougar, Elk, (unlimited archery tags), antlerless tags, OIL tags. Not to mention the many, many dedicated hunter tags that are available year in and year out. Fact is a kid can be taken deer hunting every year and decide that he would rather be hunting upland or waterfowl than hunting deer.

I would rather hunt elk than deer any day of the week. I would rather hunt bear than deer.

There are very inexpensive tags available across the borders in Wyoming and Idaho with a ton of land to hunt.

The first big game hunt I took my kids on was in Wyoming for antelope. The drive was 2-1/2 hours from SLC. We had 2 tags filled before noon.

People don't have to do anything special or be wealthy. They have to want to hunt and put in a little effort to make it happen. The adults that make the excuses not to hunt are the ones that are costing their kids. If hunting is a priority it can and should happen. There are no excuses for anybody right now.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

If kids are interested, they will hunt, if not, no amount of exposure will change that. My 16 year old daughter showed interest for the first time in a couple of years this year, we tried to get her on a spike elk, but couldn't make it happen. Unfortunately her school and dance schedule don't allow her a lot of time for hunting.

My 9 year old son begs to go with me every time a leave. He loves to get out and has never been part of a harvest. Saw several bucks this year I would have taken with him, but it didn't happen. My 14 and 12 year old daughters show no interest and I'm perfectly fine with that.

My brother and I grew up with the exact same exposure and opportunity to hunt. He is mostly uninterested. Same with my uncles 2 sons, one loves hunting, the other has no interest at all. It had nothing to do with video games or phones. It was all about having a natural desire and interest.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> We've tampered with Mother Nature by destroying it. We introduced cheat grass, we develop and ruin the land ... So on. It's not hard to understand you're just trying not to , anyway back to hunter recruitment .


I agree habitat is key. But I question habitat restoration and it benefits to wildlife.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Huh, I thought this was posted in the Big Game Section, so rabbits, pen raised pheasants, and the waterfowl-spot competitions didn't come to mind. Deer are the staple of big game hunting and recruitment. Comparing that to OIL tags or archery elk is apples and oranges- my 2 cents. I tend to think that Recruitment has two sides- Youth growing up in a hunting family and new hunters, who were not exposed to hunting within their family.

Elk are great for elk hunters-- if you are equipped to hunt and handle a dead elk. Not a real great hunt that comes to mind for recruitment. The UT Gen Anybull hunt is one of my favorite hunts. Archery is great for archers, but most new-recruits would struggle going at it on their own-- it is an expensive, time consuming adventure (which I also enjoy).

Hunting out of state is a grand experience, yet the huge majority of hunters have no clue where to even start. I have friends and family who have decades of hunting under their belts- never setting foot out of state.

Which brings us to the following reason for recruitment success or failure-- A new recruit will most likely become a hunter if he is mentored in a way which allows him/her to enjoy hunting. Take your mules and knowledge hunting Elk with a new comer and they will enjoy it more. Show a new hunter the ropes of hunting out of state and they will learn how to do it. And an important factor to that successful recruitment will be that the recruit actually gets to HUNT and that means obtaining a permit to do so at regular intervals- preferably yearly.

Sometimes we need to remember that everyone else is not like us- they know nothing about applying in WY for discounted youth permits. They have no clue where to see an elk, let alone how to hunt one. And they sure as heck are not excited to know that they have a .3% chance of drawing an OIL moose permit in Utah during their life.....


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> That perfectly summed up my point. It is as if the only hunting that matters is for buck deer.
> 
> There is so much more than that. Rabbit, Hare, Chukar, Ducks, Geese, Pheasant, Grouse, Bear, Cougar, Elk, (unlimited archery tags), antlerless tags, OIL tags. Not to mention the many, many dedicated hunter tags that are available year in and year out. Fact is a kid can be taken deer hunting every year and decide that he would rather be hunting upland or waterfowl than hunting deer.
> 
> People don't have to do anything special or be wealthy. They have to want to hunt and put in a little effort to make it happen. The adults that make the excuses not to hunt are the ones that are costing their kids. If hunting is a priority it can and should happen. There are no excuses for anybody right now.


I agree - there are too many people that think the buck deer hunt is the ONLY hunt on the planet, and if they don't get a tag, then their season is over until next year. There are opportunities everywhere, although Packout is correct in stating that not everyone cares to hunt out of state or has the interest in figuring it out. Each state has a duty to provide opportunities for its residents, and I believe that encouraging additional recruitment of NEW hunters requires that the in-state system needs to be understandable. With each passing year, regulations seem to be getting more complicated, and that, frankly, is a turn off to a lot of people. You might say that it "doesn't bother me" (and I fall in that group), but there a lot of other people that don't share the same opinion...many that I know.

I also agree that if hunting is a priority, people will find a way to make it happen. I have several friends who will go out, IF I ask them, and IF I figure out all the logistics. Hunting isn't a priority to them. IF I do most of the work, and extend the invitation, they'll go. Otherwise, they have other things that occupy their time. These types of people will not introduce new hunters to the sport. Unfortunately, in today's world, there are so many other things to suck time than when many of us were growing up. The distractions are enormous, and falling hunter numbers tell the tale. It's up to each of us to introduce at least 2 or 3 new hunters to the sport and get them hooked...otherwise we very well may get hunting voted out of existence in the next couple generations.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

The best way to keep your job is to be irreplaceable. They need to harvest 250,000 deer in New York. They need something to cull the 1.75 million deer in Alabama. No natural predators you see. Hunters are valued and irreplaceable it those wildlife management schemes. Out west cougar have reclaimed their roll in culling the deer herds. Hunters are tolerated not valued by the non hunting public out west. 

Even I eye knows hunter harvest in Utah is additive.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

MWScott72 said:


> I agree - there are too many people that think the buck deer hunt is the ONLY hunt on the planet, and if they don't get a tag, then their season is over until next year. There are opportunities everywhere, although Packout is correct in stating that not everyone cares to hunt out of state or has the interest in figuring it out. Each state has a duty to provide opportunities for its residents, and I believe that encouraging additional recruitment of NEW hunters requires that the in-state system needs to be understandable. With each passing year, regulations seem to be getting more complicated, and that, frankly, is a turn off to a lot of people. You might say that it "doesn't bother me" (and I fall in that group), but there a lot of other people that don't share the same opinion...many that I know.
> 
> I also agree that if hunting is a priority, people will find a way to make it happen. I have several friends who will go out, IF I ask them, and IF I figure out all the logistics. Hunting isn't a priority to them. IF I do most of the work, and extend the invitation, they'll go. Otherwise, they have other things that occupy their time. These types of people will not introduce new hunters to the sport. Unfortunately, in today's world, there are so many other things to suck time than when many of us were growing up. The distractions are enormous, and falling hunter numbers tell the tale. It's up to each of us to introduce at least 2 or 3 new hunters to the sport and get them hooked...otherwise we very well may get hunting voted out of existence in the next couple generations.


Agree 100% with you and Packout.

The ones that get me the most, the ones that I was really referring to I guess, are the ones on this forum that know of the hunting opportunities and still try to claim that they don't exist.

BTW..........Most of the people that I hunt with are exactly the ones that you described. I have a couple diehards like myself that I hunt with pretty much every year that put in a lot of work. The rest of them filter in and out. Some stick to it and do there own thing some don't. I accept it. Fact is doing the work for everybody and seeing if it sticks is hunter recruitment.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Society, in general has changed.... I truly believe kids/people are so out of touch with the "old ways" and life in general that it's pretty much helpless and I don't see it getting better. When I was old enough to talk I knew exactly where meat/food came from....**** most people now days have there kids living in some fairy tale story it seems...raising them to chase that mighty dollar, life lessons, how **** really works, all of it, is off the table..

For many, hunting is just something to do to pass the time, if they get a round to it and if their wife, work, schedule, kids, blah blah will "let them" ....years ago it wasn't optional or a "I hope to get out", it was the years meat, and extremely important. If society had to hunt for food many of them would starve to death in minutes..

People are lazy, kids especially, can't expect a kid to get off the couch when dad won't either...it's a society problem...nothing to do with game or lack of IMHO...


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

MWScott72 said:


> I agree - there are too many people that think the buck deer hunt is the ONLY hunt on the planet, and if they don't get a tag, then their season is over until next year. There are opportunities everywhere, although Packout is correct in stating that not everyone cares to hunt out of state or has the interest in figuring it out. Each state has a duty to provide opportunities for its residents, and I believe that encouraging additional recruitment of NEW hunters requires that the in-state system needs to be understandable. With each passing year, regulations seem to be getting more complicated, and that, frankly, is a turn off to a lot of people. You might say that it "doesn't bother me" (and I fall in that group), but there a lot of other people that don't share the same opinion...many that I know.
> 
> I also agree that if hunting is a priority, people will find a way to make it happen. I have several friends who will go out, IF I ask them, and IF I figure out all the logistics. Hunting isn't a priority to them. IF I do most of the work, and extend the invitation, they'll go. Otherwise, they have other things that occupy their time. These types of people will not introduce new hunters to the sport. Unfortunately, in today's world, there are so many other things to suck time than when many of us were growing up. The distractions are enormous, and falling hunter numbers tell the tale. It's up to each of us to introduce at least 2 or 3 new hunters to the sport and get them hooked...otherwise we very well may get hunting voted out of existence in the next couple generations.


After all of the time in the woods and money spent on diesel this year I HAD to harvest an elk to put meat in our freezer, it paid off and came home with both tags filled. If you had told me 3 years ago that I would become an elk hunter I might have said you were crazy.

For me it started on a cold morning coming up on 3 years in December when we had that bad wind storm, one our neighbors had a big spruce that barely missed their roof and a group of us were over there cutting it up. I had to use the restroom while we were working there and saw this massive elk mount as you enter their home, this lead to a conversation about hunting and sparked my interest. A week or so later we went to dinner at my wife's aunt's place and her husband is a big hunter with dozens of mounts in their home, they sent us home with some elk and pheasant meat and we enjoyed every bite of it. Over the course of the next 9 months I became good friends with my neighbor and he invited me to hunt with him and a buddy of his. Although the only thing I shot that year was a pine hen with a borrowed 30-06, we cooked it over the fire and was a great adventure. Over the course of the next year I read a lot and bought my first rifle, a used Savage 30-06 with a bit of work done to it. I bought some more of my own gear including a used pair of binoculars and a range finder so I would have everything I needed for the 2013 elk hunt. Although I didn't harvest an animal in 2013 I did hunt and study the same area as the year before. That same area is where I harvested both of my elk this year.

Although I consider myself more of an outdoors seeker than a hunter, that innate desire to be in nature has always been with me since our many family camping and hiking adventures as a child. My dad wasn't much of a hunter but would chase deer on occasion, he took us boys out camping at every chance we could and made it fun and that's what mattered.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> What do we do to improve recruitment both in youth and non- hunters?


I dunno, maybe we should try making the hunting laws even more restrictive and complicated than they are already. That strategy should really bring new hunters into the sport in droves.

And while we are at it, we might as well set ourselves up as elitist judges of those who less experienced or who don't agree with our point(s) of view. That will really make the new guys feel like part of the hunting fraternity.

I'm just sayin'.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

iron bear said:


> yep i would say most fanatical hunters are born. Just give them a taste and they take care of the rest.
> 
> States like pennsylvania, alabama and georgia don't have a recruitment retention issues like we have all over the west.
> 
> Could predators or lack there of be playing any role in this?


opportunity


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Iron Bear said:


> Yep I would say most fanatical hunters are born. Just give them a taste and they take care of the rest.
> 
> States like Pennsylvania, Alabama and Georgia don't have a recruitment retention issues like we have all over the West.
> 
> Could predators or lack there of be playing any role in this?


Go to Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Birmingham and Atlanta and see how recruitment is going. They face the same things aside from the fact that an overwhelming majority of the hunting land is private and protected. What gives anybody the notion that hunters recruitment is better back east other than a wild assed assumption?


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

I walked away from hunting for many years only to get back into it because I saw it as an opportunity to spend quality time with my grandfather. He continued to hunt alone for many years as *ALL* of my family choose other things to fill their lives with and I saw hunting and a unique way to spend time with my grandfather in the twilight of his life. The last five years have been highly rewarding spending time with him in places that we would have never ventured into had we not had a deer or elk tag in our pockets. I sat with him high on a ledge on his Manti elk hunt this last fall and it was priceless, precious time on what was likely his final elk hunt. My motivation for getting back into hunting was not to chase antler inches or even put meat in the freezer, it was to spend time with family. It is my opinion that the family aspect has been greatly reduced by many of the changes that have been made in the last several years, that loss has hurt hunting more than anything.

On a side note... 
I was prepping for the muzzleloader elk last night by downloading some hunting videos from YouTube for my enjoyment during the down time & evenings... my seven year old son laid down on the floor next to me and watched a segment where a young girl harvested her very first elk (a small spike). He looked at me and asked how old she was (13 years old), then asked me how old he would have to be to shoot. When I told him he could get a tag when he turned 12 he just kind of nodded and in a matter of fact tone said, "Five more years 'till I shoot... cool." He asked about where to aim so we re-watched the video and every time an animal was on the screen I would quiz him. It was fun for him... and fun for me (although now the computer screen is covered in grubby little fingerprints). He asked many more questions and I answered honestly, trying to make it very clear to him that hunting isn't like these shows and that there's a lot of hiking and sitting and waiting and glassing, but those are the best parts... and only occasionally shooting. If he expresses interest in tagging along in the next few years i will take him. If he says that he wants a tag when he's 12 I will get him one. But if he decides he is more interested in other activities (sports, music, theater, education, etc.) I will support that wholeheartedly. Just because I love to hunt & fish doesn't mean he has to... although it sure is more fun hoping that he will.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

derekp1999 said:


> I walked away from hunting for many years only to get back into it because I saw it as an opportunity to spend quality time with my grandfather. He continued to hunt alone for many years as *ALL* of my family choose other things to fill their lives with and I saw hunting and a unique way to spend time with my grandfather in the twilight of his life. The last five years have been highly rewarding spending time with him in places that we would have never ventured into had we not had a deer or elk tag in our pockets. I sat with him high on a ledge on his Manti elk hunt this last fall and it was priceless, precious time on what was likely his final elk hunt. My motivation for getting back into hunting was not to chase antler inches or even put meat in the freezer, it was to spend time with family. It is my opinion that the family aspect has been greatly reduced by many of the changes that have been made in the last several years, that loss has hurt hunting more than anything.
> 
> On a side note...
> I was prepping for the muzzleloader elk last night by downloading some hunting videos from YouTube for my enjoyment during the down time & evenings... my seven year old son laid down on the floor next to me and watched a segment where a young girl harvested her very first elk (a small spike). He looked at me and asked how old she was (13 years old), then asked me how old he would have to be to shoot. When I told him he could get a tag when he turned 12 he just kind of nodded and in a matter of fact tone said, "Five more years 'till I shoot... cool." He asked about where to aim so we re-watched the video and every time an animal was on the screen I would quiz him. It was fun for him... and fun for me (although now the computer screen is covered in grubby little fingerprints). He asked many more questions and I answered honestly, trying to make it very clear to him that hunting isn't like these shows and that there's a lot of hiking and sitting and waiting and glassing, but those are the best parts... and only occasionally shooting. If he expresses interest in tagging along in the next few years i will take him. If he says that he wants a tag when he's 12 I will get him one. But if he decides he is more interested in other activities (sports, music, theater, education, etc.) I will support that wholeheartedly. Just because I love to hunt & fish doesn't mean he has to... although it sure is more fun hoping that he will.


I have to agree, spending time with friends and family while getting some exercise in nature is a bigger aspect than harvesting an animal. I do hope to get my brother out here next year for the elk hunt, he used to be a big whitetail hunter and has one mounted that its dressed weight was 203 pounds but has never had the chance to hunt elk. Even if he just joins me for my hunt it will be the first time we have hunted together since being teenagers.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Go to Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Birmingham and Atlanta and see how recruitment is going. They face the same things aside from the fact that an overwhelming majority of the hunting land is private and protected. What gives anybody the notion that hunters recruitment is better back east other than a wild assed assumption?


Not true. In Pittsburg they are telling kids you need to come shoot one of these 1 million deer. If hunters don't harvest x 100,000 deer it will be a big problem. Don't worry about private land kid. Most everyone welcomes responsible hunters in their land to keep deer in check. Trespass fees are quite affordable. But don't expect to shoot a 10 pointer. You should be proud to harvest a doe if a good opportunity presents itself. They are telling kids the same thing in Birmingham and Atlanta.

In Utah and in the west we tell kids. Wait your turn to shoot one of these 300,000 deer. Don't shoot a doe. There aren't enough deer as it is. We can shoot this many deer if the weather is good. Don't go in the field and scare deer in the spring. Predators keep the herd healthy and in check. You should have seen it in the good ole days. It's the drought. It was a bad winter. Too many hunters here. It's guys shooting 2 pts. It's the trophy mentality. Ect.

Back east hunters are a necessary part of deer management. Not because of public opinion but because of the role they play as predators. Out west natural predators relegate hunting into tolerated status. Ever had to justify your deer hunt to a no hunter in Utah?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

That just means we need whitetails in Utah. Bring'em on.


-DallanC


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> Society, in general has changed.... I truly believe kids/people are so out of touch with the "old ways" and life in general that it's pretty much helpless and I don't see it getting better. When I was old enough to talk *I knew exactly where meat/food came from*....


IMO, this is a big part of why hunting struggles with recruitment. Too many of todays youth do not want to "kill" stuff, even if the rest of the outing is pleasurable. Most of our youngsters (and many adults) have absolutely no concept of where food really comes from. They think that chicken sandwich is plucked from a tree. Even a generation ago, most of us had connections with rural grandparents and farming that taught us these things. Part of what we learned while hunting as a youth was how to actually cut up our game. Now those lessons are lost on our kids and killing your food is thought of as repugnant.

My oldest daughter will go hiking with me, will occassionally fish, will camp, but no matter what I do, she gets grossed out when I bring home a deer and process it in the back yard. She even is weirded out when she admits that the game she just ate was tasty. I am at a loss to change this, and it is safe to say that she won't go hunting with me.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Catherder said:


> IMO, this is a big part of why hunting struggles with recruitment. Too many of todays youth do not want to "kill" stuff, even if the rest of the outing is pleasurable. Most of our youngsters (and many adults) have absolutely no concept of where food really comes from. They think that chicken sandwich is plucked from a tree. Even a generation ago, most of us had connections with rural grandparents and farming that taught us these things. Part of what we learned while hunting as a youth was how to actually cut up our game. Now those lessons are lost on our kids and killing your food is thought of as repugnant.
> 
> My oldest daughter will go hiking with me, will occassionally fish, will camp, but no matter what I do, she gets grossed out when I bring home a deer and process it in the back yard. She even is weirded out when she admits that the game she just ate was tasty. I am at a loss to change this, and it is safe to say that she won't go hunting with me.


same with my daughter.

It would have been the same with my sister growing up, who would not consider going hunting now. The biggest difference is my daughter and sister now have a choice. Growing up my sister didn't have the same choice. She helped out with the hunt, meat preparation and general farm/ranch stuff because she had to. It was part of "making a living".


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Wait wait wait... you all mean "Skinless" isn't a special breed of chicken??? :shock:


-DallanC


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Ever had to justify your deer hunt to a no hunter in Utah?


No, I haven't. I don't ever intend to justify myself to nonhunter either. That would be time and effort wasted. I hunt because I enjoy it and because I want to...if they don't get it, no skin off my back.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

DallanC said:


> That just means we need whitetails in Utah. Bring'em on.
> 
> -DallanC


I wouldn't mind whitetail introduction. It would add great opportunity, but depredation issues would get greater and landowners would just complain more . If it happened the state wouldn't be able to give in to depredation quite as much .


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Catherder said:


> My oldest daughter will go hiking with me, will occassionally fish, will camp, but no matter what I do, she gets grossed out when I bring home a deer and process it in the back yard. She even is weirded out when she admits that the game she just ate was tasty. I am at a loss to change this, and it is safe to say that she won't go hunting with me.


Don't worry Catherder - my sisters were exactly like this when I was younger. They were repulsed by anything "wild" (even when tricked into eating it, admitting it was good, and the dry heaving when told the truth). They have since come around and are OK with wild game / killing stuff in the process. It just took some extra time to get there. Don't give up hope!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

DallanC said:


> That just means we need whitetails in Utah. Bring'em on.
> 
> -DallanC


Aren't mule deer struggling enough in this state? Do they need another competitor? I love whitetails, but don't think they're needed here where they haven't been historically located anyway. JMO - not looking for a fight.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

MWScott72 said:


> Aren't mule deer struggling enough in this state? QUOTE]
> 
> No--Not right now ...
> 
> ...


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

DallanC said:


> That just means we need whitetails in Utah. Bring'em on.
> 
> -DallanC


I hope to bring a truckload of whitetail to Utah in a couple weeks.......just doing my part to help.--------SS


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

Springville Shooter said:


> I hope to bring a truckload of whitetail to Utah in a couple weeks.......just doing my part to help.--------SS


Lucky begger, where are ya going?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Idahizzo......like always.-------SS


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think with all of the kids so into technology and social media is that we need to have a whole new one eye deer story/thread again. that will get the kids reading and pique their interest. We could have NHS do the photoshop again..., if that doesn't work nothing will.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> MWScott72 said:
> 
> 
> > Aren't mule deer struggling enough in this state? QUOTE]
> ...


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

Always blame the video games....


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

If we simply privatized the DWR and let them make a profit on hunting I am sure they could come up with a way to increase license sales. You know, they could have sales coupons, TV ads with hot chics eatin deers burgers, two-for-one sales... stuff like that. They might even out source the whole thing and take if off shore and pass the savings on to us. Of course the deers might not be real high quality but they'd be cheap and sales would boom. The one percenter's would still have the good stuff (trophy horn) available at the private clubs at a little higher cost (off set of course with tax loopholes). What about maybe free hotdogs with each license sold, or lady's night, happy hour??...what you all think?


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I'd love to keep politics and stereotypes out of this thread. That's what I think. There's enough of that crap elsewhere to get one's fill if one wants it.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

MWScott72 said:


> I'd love to keep politics and stereotypes out of this thread. That's what I think. There's enough of that crap elsewhere to get one's fill if one wants it.


Geez MW, what gives you the idea that my suggestions aren't valid? The question was "how to improve recruitment" right? Well, the use of modern marketing schemes IS is how you sell things today! If the goal is to get more hunters in the field, you have to SELL hunting. The methods I mention are tried and proven selling methods. Even the part about "tax loopholes" is valid. You're not going to recruit the wealthy without some financial incentive (code for loophole). Maybe we would not have to privatize to take advantage of these methods but for the most part profit driven business seems to have a better grasp on marketing than government.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> If we simply privatized the DWR and let them make a profit on hunting I am sure they could come up with a way to increase license sales. You know, they could have sales coupons, TV ads with hot chics eatin deers burgers, two-for-one sales... stuff like that. They might even out source the whole thing and take if off shore and pass the savings on to us. Of course the deers might not be real high quality but they'd be cheap and sales would boom. The one percenter's would still have the good stuff (trophy horn) available at the private clubs at a little higher cost (off set of course with tax loopholes). What about maybe free hotdogs with each license sold, or lady's night, happy hour??...what you all think?


I'm in. It was the free hot dogs that got me

.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Sorry BP...I hear "1 percenter" and it just irks me with all the political BS out there these days. I do agree with many of your ideas though. When I was single, the hot chics eating burgers would have caught my eye. Now that I'm married and then some, those free hot dogs don't sound like a bad idea. Especially since my wife and kids do a profoundly wonderful job of emptying my wallet!


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