# .35/9mm caliber



## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

I was struck by the thought that in pistol cartridges .35 (.357) caliber and 9mm (which is virtually identical in bore diameter) are the dominant bore diameters, but in rifles .35 (.358 ) caliber is very low in popularity. I wonder what accounts for that difference.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

The difference is that most people haven't shot an elk with a Whelen. 35 is a great caliber. The 358 Win is a good round too.------SS


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

The standard issue military rifle cartridges have never been 35 caliber.

Oh, and don't forget the 358 Norma magnum. And 350 Remington Magnum.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I love the .35 cal myself. they are making a comeback in places, but mostly because of strange caliber restrictions. in Indiana they started allowing rifles if they are .35 cal or bigger and no longer than a certain length so they developed a shorter necked .358 win called .358 hoosier. in the south some states allow singleshot centerfire rifles of .35 cal or bigger during their "primitive weapon" hunts, so H&R and CVA started making single shot .35 whelens and ammo companies started making high speed 200 gr .35 whelen ammo. there are a lot of good .35 cal rifles out there that have their niche. for whatever reason the .35 rem has been the grand champion survivor of the .35s. still a lot of em out there. .35 whelen, .358 win, .356 win, . 350 rem mag ,.358 norma. .348 win(kinda) some more rare .35 Winchester, .351 Winchester, .350 rigby, 9x57, n probably more. might be a .350 rigby no2 or some such. they aren't popular but there have been a lot and some are still popular in places with sick troubled individuals.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

also .35 newton which is the parent case to .375 ruger. wildcatters have necked up .300 rum, .300 win and .300 wsm to .35 too. like I said. sick troubled individuals


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Don't forget the 358 Shooting Times Alaskan. Layne's feelings would be hurt.-----SS


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Buy a 35 Whelen get all the performance of a 30-06 and never have to buy premium bullets again.------SS


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I knew Id forget some. im glad there are whelen advocates here


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

A hypothetical question: what do you think of the idea a reboring a Mosin Nagant to .358 caliber, shortening the barrel, putting a new stock on it, and ending up with a sporter cabine in a .358x54r wildcat caliber?


(No need for anti-bubba military rifle purist to reply. We already know what you think.)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

For those that shoot the 35 Whelen, one of my daughter's friends gave her a bunch of 35 Whelen reloads to give to me knowing that I was into shooting and reloading.

I would never shoot someone else's reloads without knowing them well. If I did shoot a 35 Whelen, I would pull the bullets and pop the caps and start from scratch with the brass and bullets.

Anyway if 35Whelen or SS or anyone that reloads is interested in them I will get them out to see how many there are and you can have them if you want them.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

massmanute said:


> A hypothetical question: what do you think of the idea a reboring a Mosin Nagant to .358 caliber, shortening the barrel, putting a new stock on it, and ending up with a sporter cabine in a .358x54r wildcat caliber?
> 
> (No need for anti-bubba military rifle purist to reply. We already know what you think.)


Or you could rebarrel any readily available 308 to 358 Win. and have a gun you could be proud of, not have the hassle of a wildcat, and have a ready supply of quality brass at your disposal.

Purist


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Loke said:


> Or you could rebarrel any readily available 308 to 358 Win. and have a gun you could be proud of, not have the hassle of a wildcat, and have a ready supply of quality brass at your disposal.
> 
> Purist


That could work too, but at considerably higher cost and without the "fun" of wildcatting.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

35whelen said:


> I love the .35 cal myself. they are making a comeback in places, but mostly because of strange caliber restrictions. in Indiana they started allowing rifles if they are .35 cal or bigger and no longer than a certain length so they developed a shorter necked .358 win called .358 hoosier. in the south some states allow singleshot centerfire rifles of .35 cal or bigger during their "primitive weapon" hunts, so H&R and CVA started making single shot .35 whelens and ammo companies started making high speed 200 gr .35 whelen ammo. there are a lot of good .35 cal rifles out there that have their niche. *for whatever reason the .35 rem has been the grand champion survivor of the .35s.* still a lot of em out there. .35 whelen, .358 win, .356 win, . 350 rem mag ,.358 norma. .348 win(kinda) some more rare .35 Winchester, .351 Winchester, .350 rigby, 9x57, n probably more. might be a .350 rigby no2 or some such. they aren't popular but there have been a lot and some are still popular in places with sick troubled individuals.


Funny timing here, I just finished reloading four-hundred .35 Remingtons last week; some 200gr FTXs, some 200gr RN, and some 150gr cast plinkers.

The .35 Remington still remains popular in many parts of the country, and Canada, today. For over 50 years the .35 Remington was a very popular long arm for LEO and prison guards, mostly in Remington's semi-auto models 8 and 81 and the model 141 pump.....great firearms; all of them.

Seemed liked everyone had a .35 Rem huntin' deer in the thick timber back in the day in Missouri, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Ontario. Those old timers in Maine will tell you more moose have been taken up there with the .35 Remington than any other caliber.

I'm thinking about using a .35 Remington for Wyoming elk next year.

.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

If anyone has a nice Model 600 Mohawk in 350 Rem Mag that they want to let go for less than a kilobuck I'd be interested. ------SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> If anyone has a nice Model 600 Mohawk in 350 Rem Mag that they want to let go for less than a kilobuck I'd be interested. ------SS


They are a unique gun, that's for sure.

If you get one will you:
a) Ream the chamber to a 40° shoulder?
b) Take a Dremel tool with reckless abandon to the cool stock and then extend the magazine?
c) Throw the cool wooden stock away and install a kilobuck plastic one?
d) Install a new 30"-long barrel?
e) Add another sling swivel to the forearm?
f) Paint the wooden stock black with some spider web thingies so you won't be embarrassed if you take the rifle to the range?
g) Replace a bunch of the cool wooden stock with two-part epoxy?
h) Lap da lugs?
h1) Blueprint the action?

.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

at massmanute 
there is a 9x54r in Europe. Russian company makes semiauto hunting rifles chambered in them. finns make a 9 or 9.3x53r


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> They are a unique gun, that's for sure.
> 
> If you get one will you:
> a) Ream the chamber to a 40° shoulder?
> ...


Nope, some things are great just like they are. Mrs. Shooter and the 600 Mohawk are two of those things. -----SS


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

bowgy said:


> For those that shoot the 35 Whelen, one of my daughter's friends gave her a bunch of 35 Whelen reloads to give to me knowing that I was into shooting and reloading.
> 
> *I would never shoot someone else's reloads without knowing them well*. If I did shoot a 35 Whelen, I would pull the bullets and pop the caps and start from scratch with the brass and bullets.
> 
> ...


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

35whelen said:


> at massmanute
> there is a 9x54r in Europe. Russian company makes semiauto hunting rifles chambered in them. finns make a 9 or 9.3x53r


I have heard of those. I suspect that in performance terms a 9mm bore size would be indistinguishable from a .358 bore size. I am not sure how closely the 9mm bore size matches a .358 bore size. I suspect the 9mm is probably a couple of thousandths of an inch narrower. In the US it is probably easier to find suitable .358 bullets for reloading.

Speaking of bullets, I understand that some people reload .358 caliber rifles with .357 handgun bullets using light powder charges and use those light loads mainly as practice rounds.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

bowgy said:


> bowgy said:
> 
> 
> > For those that shoot the 35 Whelen, one of my daughter's friends gave her a bunch of 35 Whelen reloads to give to me knowing that I was into shooting and reloading.
> ...


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

massmanute said:


> bowgy said:
> 
> 
> > Could the brass have been based on .270 Winchester? The .270 was originally based on the .30-03, which had a slightly longer neck than the .30-06.
> ...


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

Massmanute
I Imagine the European 9mm rifles are .358 cal. The more modern ones anyway. In Europe the .358 win is called the 8.8x51. 
You can load the whelen and .358 win with pistol bullets. They don't even necessarily need to be reduced but a 158 gr pistol bullet at 3000 fps would make poor hunting bullet I think. Remington makes a 150 gr pointed sp for use in .35 rem pumps and semi autos. I've also seen it loaded in the .358 gremlin based on the 7.62x39


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

35whelen,

Since my post asking about the bore of the 9x54r cartridge I found a bit more information on it. The bullet size is 9.22mm, which is 0.363 inches, a bit bigger than .358. I don't know why they don't call it 9.22x54r or 9.2x52r. There is a similar but not quite the same cartridge, 9.3x54r.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

Weird. So it's in between the 9 and 9.3. I think the makarov 9mm is .363 too. Or at least .36. Europeans have to complicate everything.


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