# Another "which is better" question



## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

So Ive been doing a ton of shooting as of late (30-30 .308 30.06 300 win) and well Ive come to find out, Its really expensive!! Soooo adding that to the fact that I do not currently have a varmint gun (other then a pump action ak) Ive been looking at picking up a new rifle that is less expensive to shoot. I was leaning towards the .223 for simple ease of getting cheap components. However, I was also thinking 22-250 or possibly a .204. I don't really see myself going after anything other then yotes with it and I would like to be able to shoot at distances of 300-400+.

Ive shot the 5.56 quite a bit in the military and was impressed with its ability but I know the .223 has quite a bit less pressure which makes me wonder about its effectiveness at the long range shots.

My question is, if you were to only have one gun for varmints from yotes to prairie dogs what would it be and why. Keeping in mind I will be doing all of my own reloading and am looking to get the best "bang" for the buck.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I like the 22-250. You can load it up or you can load it down. It performs well with heaver bullets but you can put a light one in. For parrie dogs I am shooting a 52 grain Speer hollow point at around 3600 fps and it just vaporizes them, the same load does wonders on coyotes also. But usually for coyotes I'll go up to the 55 grain Nosler which will shoot MOA groups at 200 yards but I also don't worry about the pelts either.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I absolutely love my .22-250. I have it in a Rugar #1V and its fantastically accurate. My only beef with the caliber is cases will split quicker than other calibers due to the steep neck angle. Still though you can get quite a few reloadings out of them.


-DallanC


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

223 by a mile. You can easily smoke a yote out to 400 yards, ammo is cheap, it is an extremely accurate cartridge, and it has much better barrel life. 204 does not have a lot of oomph for yotes out a a distance. 22-250 is a great round, but if you do ever decide to sit over a prairie dog town you will really have to watch the barrel temps. 22-250 is also not much cheaper than 308 and 30-30. I have a bunch of $5/20round federal 223 that I bought for plinking.

my 0.02


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

If you are always going to reload then go big. You can load a .220 Swift (or other such screamer) down to .218 Bee levels and go plinking but not vice-versa. 
If you want to buy ammo ready to go then the .223 wins hands down.
Before it thaws out again I’m going to try to take out a couple rifles and run some .223 and 5.56 across the chronograph to see what the real difference is.

jpolson, Your name, location and interests are very similar to someone I once worked with, have you ever worked with chemical WMDs?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

If value is the main issue 223 wins hands down. Of course, Frisco Pete will chime in and say that for actual hunting the amount of ammo you use is minimal and extra few dollars don't add up to much when you consider all of the gas, insurance, etc. you pay to be able to hunt-talking just on hunting rounds, but if you do a lot of shooting then it adds up a lot faster.

I tried to paste the ballistics chart of 223 vs 22-250, but it is a gif and won't do it, so the 223 in 55 gr SP to have a 300 yard zero has to go as high as 5" at about 175 yards and then drops to 11" low at 400 yards. The 22-250 is about 4" high at 160 to zero at 300 and then at 400 yards is at 9" low. (all done at 40 degrees and 6,000' elevation)
Exact same ballistic coefficient between the two and since the 204 is so much more money I don't think it meets your criteria.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> ......................................................
> My question is, if you were to only have one gun for varmints from yotes to prairie dogs what would it be and why. Keeping in mind I will be doing all of my own reloading and am looking to get the best "bang" for the buck.


.223, to answer your question.

But I prefer the .204 and then the 22-.250 over the .223.

The .204 is simply amazing.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I agree with goob. I think the true moral of the story here is that any of the fore-mentioned varmint rounds will serve you well. People who shoot accurate varmint rifles hone their skills and are better shots when they pick back up the big boys. My advice to any rifleman who wants to improve is to buy a sweet shooting varminter and shoot everything in sight with it. I have a 243 Cooper that is my trainer. When I feel that I am developing some bad habits or just need some sight picture/trigger tuning, I always take it to the range and after a little therapy, I'm ready for some more abuse from the bigger boys. A good shooting 223 is absolutely effective out to 400 yds.------SS


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

OK so, in looking at the .223 Ive noticed there are several different barrel twists available. Which would be the best "all around". I'm goin with a 26" Encore barrel most likely.

Well it actually looks like all they have available in a Encore is a 1 in 12" twist rate. Is that sufficient to shoot a full scale of bullet weights?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Generally heavier bullets require a faster twist rate.

I know one of my .223s is a 1 in 9". 1 in 12" may be a little slow for the heavier bullets, but I can't say that from experience.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

My most accurate two are 1 in 8" in a Rock River and 1 in 9" in a Ruger. Both seem to do well with everything I've shot so far (45gr thru 62gr). Here is a link to Brownell's chart:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1118 ... and-Twists
I've never had a 1 in 12".
Midway has a Bergara barrel with a 1 in 10".


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

Cooky said:


> jpolson, Your name, location and interests are very similar to someone I once worked with, have you ever worked with chemical WMDs?


Nope. Sorry. Just a lowly plant engineer.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

> Ive been looking at picking up a new rifle that is less expensive to shoot... I will be doing all of my own reloading and am looking to get the best "bang" for the buck.


The .223 Rem is the hands-down winner here. While bullets cost the same as with a .22-250, there is less powder used and the biggest savings is the incredible amount of cheap cases available. While it is a bit harder to find them than it used to be, once-fired military cases offer an incredible bargain. US cases are mostly headstamped "LC" with a year date under that (like "08"). .223 cases are easy to find at the range as well. So .223 gives the most bang for the buck. 


> I know the .223 has quite a bit less pressure


Actually that is incorrect. It is loaded to basically the same pressure as the .22-250 or .204. The .22-250 gets it's extra velocity from it's larger case (which equals more powder); and the .204 from a similar-size case but pushing a smaller, lighter bullet.

More powder = quicker throat erosion. While not an issue with a lot of the varmint hunting we do here like coyotes and jackrabbits, if you get into a good PD town, you are really going to hammer your barrel quickly with a big case like the 22-250 or Swift. The .204 was designed to give velocity like the 22-250 or Swift with good barrel life like the .223. It is just a bit more expensive to run than the .223.

While a serious varminter might have both a big-case .22 (or .24) _and_ a .223 - I think that the .223 Rem is the best all-around varmint round - and one that is the cheapest to run and easiest to find. It also causes less grief when you lose a case in the sagebrush (for reloaders). The .204 Ruger would be my next choice. It is a great performer, but a little bit more expensive and does take some specialized cleaning rods and stuff.



> OK so, in looking at the .223 Ive noticed there are several different barrel twists available. Which would be the best "all around".


A 1-9" twist. The old 1-12" (I have a couple) limits you pretty much to bullet weights 60-gr or less. The military 1-7" favors heavier bullets than most varmint shooters use. So I say 1-9" or perhaps 1-8" is the best compromise for a varmint shooter. My 1-9" .223s shoot as accurately as the 1-12" with varmint-weight bullets, but can shoot up to 69-gr bullets as well.
Most outfits have switched over to 1-9" for sporting use.



> If value is the main issue 223 wins hands down. Of course, Frisco Pete will chime in and say that for actual hunting the amount of ammo you use is minimal and extra few dollars don't add up to much when you consider all of the gas, insurance, etc. you pay to be able to hunt-talking just on hunting rounds, but if you do a lot of shooting then it adds up a lot faster.


If we were talking big game rounds and bullets, I would agree, but when it comes to varmints, value becomes more critical because of the volume of shooting. Therefore the .223 is my hands-down choice for general varmint shooting and would be my recommendation for most people. I certainly have never had any issues with the killing power of the .223 Remington myself either.

I probably would also recommend a repeater rifle as well - over a single-shot.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Great info Pete, thanks. What I meant by the more pressure was, the 5.56 has more pressure then the .223.

Ive decided to go with the .223 when the time comes to pick one up but I was still considering a barrel for my encore rather then a black gun or the likes. I absolutely hate chasing brass at the range. I may consider a bolt gun if I can find a great price on one. Ive seen barrels for for my encore as low as $150.00 which is tough to beat but they are 1- 12" twist.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

For varmints, the lighter bullets (40-55 grain) have flatter trajectories than the bigger heavier bullets. At least out to 500 yards.


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## Mrad (Mar 25, 2011)

For your purpose I vote for the 223.

The 204 is an amazing varmint round but spendy. It's my favorite varmint round followed by the 243 for the long distance stuff.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

I know you are trying to save money, but have you checked any of the aftermarket barrel outfits for the Encore like Match Grade Custom (in St George) for 1-9" .223 barrels? 
http://www.matchgrademachine.com
There is also Bergara Barrels who make a 1-10" Encore barrel.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I think you will be happy with the .223. But Im gonna throw in my $.02 just cause I like the sound of my online voice  

Im at a toss up for suggestions for which is better for your needs. And the reasoning behind my conundrum is that you have a few things you want to do with the varmint caliber that make things a little contradictory in my mind. And by contradictory I mean one cartridge will be better than the other depending on purpose:

1) the 22-250 gets my vote for long range shots and coyote hunting. But it does not get my vote for prairie dog shooting as it can be a barrel burner when it heats up

2) the .204 gets my vote for prairie dog shooting as it is flat shooting and shouldnt heat up as much as the 22-250. I own one and love to shoot it. Guys like this caliber for coyotes, but mikevanwilder had some problems with v-max bullets splashing when using his .204 so you may want to do a little research and learn what range to use this caliber on and what bullet is best for coyotes (Im thinking a JHP?).

3) the .223 is honestly a tie with the .204 because they are fun for target shooting and you dont have to worry as much about heating the barrel up as quickly. It is cheap to reload, and you can just pick brass up at the range since people are too lazy to clean up after themselves.


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## flyfisher117 (Jun 29, 2009)

For me It would be the .223, Im not sure I just love the little round. Its cheap to shoot and even cheaper to reload. Barrel life is a bit better than those hot little varmint .22 cals. 

Something about the little round just captivates me.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Can't go wrong with the .223. Even if you do reload it is cheap and easy to find ammo for. Performance wise it can hold its own from PDs to coyotes. If you coyote hunting I don't really see any difference in any of the 3 calibers you mentioned as for effectiveness. As Bax said I have had problems with certain bullets in the 204 on coyotes, I think alot is I have OCD when it comes to my 204. I love it and keep trying to get a perfect combo out of it. 
For PDs the 223 would be tops for sure, because as been said you get on a good town your going to burn through a ton of ammo. I use my 204 and go through 100 rounds like nothing. Good thing I like to reload!  
I actually have all three calibers and enjoy shooting all of them. I also love the 243 for varmint hunting as well.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Well I'm going to go with the .223, now I just have to find a good deal on one. From what Ive been able to find, pretty much all of the Savage models have the 1-9 twist and it sounds like that's the way to go rather then picking up a barrel for my Thompson which would be 1-12. Im heading to the gun show this next weekend and will see what I can find. Ive got about a 350-400 range so I know a Stevens will fit the bill. Just have to see what else I can find.

Heck if anybody has a gun for sale that might fit in that price range in a .223, let me know.


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