# Muzzleloader Changes



## Steveb (Sep 11, 2007)

I heard a rumor the dates for the muzzleloader hunt will change to mid-October. I couldn't find anything on the DWR site. It seems strange, since that's when the rifle hunt is on. Any truth to the rumor?


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## huntinkid (Aug 19, 2009)

the proc says that it starts the 23rd of september to october 1st, so that would be a negative on the mid october


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## Steveb (Sep 11, 2007)

It would be for the future, not this year.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Sounds like a stupid idea to me. They will probably pass it :?


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

They need to put it back where it was IMHO.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

It's too late to make a change like that for this year. Actually, I liked the later hunt dates we enjoyed many years ago. I don't know if I said it on this forum or not, but I would like to see the earlier muzz hunt (like it is this year) for any and all muzz shooters who want to play, but I would also like to see a "Primitive weapons" only hunt later in the year.
I know this will p.o. the in-line guys but that's ok. 
If the DWR would put it in the drawing as a separate hunt I'd go for it. It would also allow people another option to still be able to hunt in case their work or other obligations keeps them from hunting the earlier season.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

In-lines are the future... our cars dont top out at 40 mph any more, things change and get better. Sorry but I get tired of the whole "might as well allow single shot rifles if you use in lines" crap. The funny thing is that the traditional guys all brag about 150 yard acuarcy...whats the difference?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bears Butt said:


> but I would also like to see a "Primitive weapons" only hunt later in the year.
> I know this will p.o. the in-line guys but that's ok.


The problem is, a modern sidelock is just as advanced as a modern inline. You can buy sidelocks with 150 grain max charge, 1/28" fast twist sabot barrels, synthetic stock, scope mounts, fiber optic sights, 209 primer ignition etc etc. The only single difference is a few thousandths of a second lock time, which is pretty much irrelevant.

I've said it before, I'll say it again... the single greatest improvement to Muzzleloader design was the advent and use of high tension coil springs, vs the old flat springs of the past. Flat springs would break, require constant alignment, loose their tension over time etc etc. It was the cause of most ignition failures. All of that has been eliminated with todays modern coil spring systems... something both inlines AND sidelocks benefit from.

-DallanC


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## str8shtr (Jul 4, 2008)

Hey Bears Butt I shoot an inline but I think you have a really good idea there. It would give me a chance to blow the cobwebs off of the old tc hawken.


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## Buzzard (Oct 20, 2008)

Do bullets and powder don't know if they are loaded into a in-line or a side-lock? Does the bullet instruct the powder to push harder because it's in an in-line? Maybe the laws of physics have changed since I was in school. Does one shoot the projectile farther and faster?


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

Using in-lines in the ML hunt is like using a Formula One car in a stock car race.
I don't say it isn't fair to the animal. I say is isn't right. The Buck doesn' care if he's shot with my 30-06, with a Ruger #1, a tompson Contender, an In-line, or a real Muzzle loader. But it is a different hunt that should use different tools. I'm sure if there were a handgun hunt people would cut the stock off on thier model 70.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

redleg said:


> I'm sure if there were a handgun hunt people would cut the stock off on thier model 70.


If it were hand held, and without a butt stock, it would be a handgun. A muzzle loader is a muzzle loader.

Fishrmn


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

And any weapon can be used on the 'Any weapon" hunt


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

redleg said:


> And any weapon can be used on the 'Any weapon" hunt


Any "legal weapon". You can't use a crossbow unless you've been given a certificate of registration for said purpose.

R657-12-1. Purpose and Authority.
Under authority of Sections 23-14-18, 23-19-1, 23-19-36, 23-20-12 and 63G-3-201, this rule provides the standards and procedures for a person with disabilities to:
(1) obtain a certificate of registration for taking wildlife from a vehicle;
(2) obtain a fishing license as authorized under Section 23-19-36(1);
(3) obtain a certificate of registration to participate in companion hunting;
(4) obtain a certificate of registration to receive a limited entry season extension;
(5) obtain a certificate of registration to receive a general deer or elk season extension;
(6) obtain a certificate of registration to hunt with a crossbow or draw-lock; or
(7) obtain a certificate of registration to use telescopic sights on a weapon when otherwise prohibited.

Ya still can't use dynamite, which is one of the most primitive weapons out there. And a muzzle loader is a muzzle loader is a muzzle loader. Whether it is an in-line, or a side lock.

Fishrmn


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## 2litl2l8 (Jan 16, 2008)

If your going to have a primitive weapon hunt I think that muzzle loaders should be out all together because they are all modern weapons flint lock, side lock, inline. I think we should all get our horses out and chase the deer down jump off the horse onto the deer like a steer wrestler and get the knife out of our teeth and slit the daggum things throat....now that is primitive. But wait... didn't Europeans bring horses here...that wont do then too modern. Maybe we could all stock the animal to within 50 yards and use an atlatl...yeah that's what I would use an Atlatl. Maybe a trebuchet anyone here ever kill a deer with a trebuchet.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

*Re: Muzzle loader Changes*

most of the changes to the muzzle loader have been the rate of twist for the barrels. it has been said before a muzzle loader is a muzzle loader, they only difference is the rate of twist which will change the whole picture. by putting in a faster twist the bullets can travel farther down range with more accuracy. the twist rate has been changing ever since muzzle loaders been around. its called improvement.

On an in-line the powder is in direct line with the primer instead of off to the side as with the side lock. which has a snail channel for the spark to go through. oh and the side lock was a vast improvement with the muzzle loader. (it replaced the flint lock). faster lock time and more sufficient ignition of the powder.

you can buy a side lock these with a fast twist barrel and still shoots sabots out of it. so what are you going to call this rifle? it is not a in-line it is still a traditional because of the firing mechanism.

there isn't much more you can do to improve the muzzle loader now. most of what you will see now is improvements to the bullet designs.
hornady is redesigning the mini ball as we speak it is call the "FPB" they should have left it as a pure lead bullet. from what i understand, the copper plating makes the skirt to hard to expand like it is supposed too.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

I disagree that the muzz hunt should be moved back to the later season. I think that you give hunters an unfair advantage to hunt deer (With a Muzz) in November during the rutt, or getting close to it. We already have the advantage with these modern muzzleloaders. Our deer herds up North couldn't handle a slaughter one after the other (Rifle then Muzzleloader). I think the dates are where they need to be to keep our herds under control. After all, these new muzzleloaders will shoot 200 yards no problem. There's not much difference other than scope when it comes down to it. I shot a buck with my muzz at 140 yards no problem and I think I could make a 200 yard shot if I practiced at that range. I shoot my rifle about 300 yards max, and usually will try and get inside 200 yards. So lets keep things where they are for now. 
If you want to hunt the rutt, get a bow and hunt the extended. It's one of the most fun hunts out there.


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## sbs20ga (Sep 20, 2009)

Nor-Tah, i used to like you.
you're right, things change & get better. next thing you know, someone will invent a metallic tube, that you can put the powder, projectle, and primer all in one complete container.

other things change too. Muzzle loading used to be about getting back to tradition, and hunting skills----------- it has changed to extending hunting season, and making things as easy as possible to kill a deer.--- it's a sad change
oh yeah-- i might still like ya.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

If its a percussion cap ML, Inline or flintlock, don't you pretty much still have the same slow A** reload time on all of them? I like how people bitc* about how inlines are too much of an "advantage", but overall, is it making the person with the flintlock or percussion cap less successful if there are people out there using inlines? I would like to think scouting and pre hunt planning would make you more successful than what type of Muzzleloader you happen to be using. :? :roll: 

And what about archery guys? Recurves, longbows and selfbows vs Compounds? There are guys out there that injure deer all the time and never find them, and they use compounds (im not saying only compound archers injure deer). And there are the guys who pull back a 45lb recurve and make perfect shots. This doesn't mean that compounds should be outlawed because they are too "high tech" It means the shooter must have confidence in the weapon they are using, weather it be a compound bow, recurve, flintlock or Inline ML.


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