# Getting a new pup.



## HeberHunter

Finally going to do it and get myself a pup. Leaning towards Labradoodle (Lab/Standard Poodle Mix), Standard Poodle, or a German Shorthair. The reasoning is that my wife wants a non-shedding/light shedding dog. So, Lab and Golden Retriever are out of the picture. I am going to kill a few birds with one stone on this dog. I want it to be a family dog, a waterfowl dog, and an upland dog. German Shorthair aren't typically known for waterfowl but I have been told by the breeder/trainer that a guy in SLC does waterfowl training for them. The standard poodle would be good but one that comes from hunting lines is spendy. ($3,000). The shorthair would be out of Cedar City and is $1,000. I'd also really like a labradoodle or goldendoodle but I have been told a hunting dog needs to be from hunting lineage to be any good. Most doodle breeders aren't breeding for hunting, mostly hypoallergenic and family temperament. But, both the Lab breed and Poodle breed are extremely intelligent animals. I raised Guide Dogs For The Blind in my younger years and they were all Black or Yellow Labs or Golden Retrievers. So, I am not a newcomer with training dogs just the wife won't allow a dog that sheds so much. I guess what I am asking is can I go the doodle route and still get a great hunting dog or would I be better to go with a hunting lineage shorthair and teach him to retrieve? Thanks in advance for the comments.


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## MuscleWhitefish

I would not go with a designed mix. 

I would suggest looking at a wirehair pointing griffon, wirehired vizsla, pudel pointer, munsterlander (large/small), or German Wirehaired Pointer before a designer dog. 

If you want a labbish personality, then go with the WPG or PP.


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## MuscleWhitefish

HeberHunter said:


> Finally going to do it and get myself a pup. Leaning towards Labradoodle (Lab/Standard Poodle Mix), Standard Poodle, or a German Shorthair. The reasoning is that my wife wants a non-shedding/light shedding dog. So, Lab and Golden Retriever are out of the picture. I am going to kill a few birds with one stone on this dog. I want it to be a family dog, a waterfowl dog, and an upland dog. German Shorthair aren't typically known for waterfowl but I have been told by the breeder/trainer that a guy in SLC does waterfowl training for them. The standard poodle would be good but one that comes from hunting lines is spendy. ($3,000). The shorthair would be out of Cedar City and is $1,000. I'd also really like a labradoodle or goldendoodle but I have been told a hunting dog needs to be from hunting lineage to be any good. Most doodle breeders aren't breeding for hunting, mostly hypoallergenic and family temperament. But, both the Lab breed and Poodle breed are extremely intelligent animals. I raised Guide Dogs For The Blind in my younger years and they were all Black or Yellow Labs or Golden Retrievers. So, I am not a newcomer with training dogs just the wife won't allow a dog that sheds so much. I guess what I am asking is can I go the doodle route and still get a great hunting dog or would I be better to go with a hunting lineage shorthair and teach him to retrieve? Thanks in advance for the comments.


Also, shorthairs shed as much if not more than labs. Their hairs are shorter and get more or less everywhere.


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## ZEKESMAN

I would go with a new wife. Doodles are mutts. Vic


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## Spry Yellowdog

You want a retriever and a nice family dog. Why try and reinvent the wheel? Just bring home a well bred Labrador Puppy, Let it work its magic on the wife and kids for a few minutes. Ask for forgiveness. Take it out to potty and start training YOUR bird dog.

Spry


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## utahnate

Get a Drahthaar


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## AF CYN

Both of MuscleWhiteFish's posts are spot on.


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## johnnycake

Your wish list looks a lot like mine. We've settled pretty hard on a pudel pointer and are crossing our fingers to be able to get one from Cedarwood this coming spring but we won't know for a while yet.


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## swampfox

I have a couple non-hunting friends with Labradoodles and I can assure you that you do not want one as a hunting dog. The ones I've met are great family dogs but I can't imagine they'd be worth much in the field. They just aren't bred with any regard for hunting ability. Get a GSP or draht/GWP and you'll be happy (or a lab if you can swing it as mentioned above). We have a drahthaar and my wife absolutely loves that dog. He is marshmallow in the house and relentless in the field. Just don't get one if you have any cats. They will not survive.


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## Huge29

Here is an interesting article I found on this. BTW they are not all no shed, not until the third generation is what I was told by an owner of one and this article seems to verify that along with other downsides. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation


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## Ali-MAc

You just described the process we went through

Wanted a good family pet that would also hunt a bit of upland and a bit of waterfowl

Then Mrs added "Low or No shed"

We tried looking to see if anyone was breeding hunting labradoodles (crossing good field lines from both sides) but no joy there

She found out about pudelpointers

Ours is 2 1/2 now and has scored great on her field trials, she is higher energy than a lab or a pet breed but so gentle with the little kids and scores great on her hunt tests.

We got her from http://cedarwoodgundogs.com/

What you are describing in terms of traits is also known as a versatile hunting dog, one that will point, water retrieve, scent trail

Look up the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA https://www.navhda.org/

Local chapter is http://wmnavhda.com/boldgrid/

They have been absolutely awesome at helping a complete beginner like me train my first dog.

The most common versatile breeds I see are
Shorthairs
Wirehairs
Draathaars
Pudelpointers
Griffons


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## Ali-MAc

Also the local NAVHDA chapter has a facebook group that has a lot of dog chatter on it and a ton of people that can help you find the right breed for your family and as a hunting buddy

They will even have you come watch their dogs train and hunt to let you see how they work.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422994137947622/


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## utahnate

Ali-MAc said:


> Also the local NAVHDA chapter has a facebook group that has a lot of dog chatter on it and a ton of people that can help you find the right breed for your family and as a hunting buddy
> 
> They will even have you come watch their dogs train and hunt to let you see how they work.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422994137947622/


^^^ Truth! That's what led me to get my DD pup.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wasatch

Check out the Logatto Romagnolo... Sounds like its everything you need, and yet not a "designer" dog....Good with kids/family, good in the water, and great for retrieval as well. A great all around dog!


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## johnnycake

Wasatch said:


> Check out the Logatto Romagnolo... Sounds like its everything you need, and yet not a "designer" dog....Good with kids/family, good in the water, and great for retrieval as well. A great all around dog!


And if you get bored...truffles! I actually looked into these dogs until I found out the prices to buy one from decent lines :shock:


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## HeberHunter

Looks like I am going the German Shorthaired Pointer route. The breeder we are looking to go with is Best Gun Dogs out of Beaver, Utah. Just wondering on people's opinion of male vs. female? (It will be fixed either way) Would a female be able to pull in a Canadian without an issue? I know the Labs and Goldens do this just fine. Just want to make the the dog will be big enough/well rounded enough for everything.


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## one4fishing




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## Karl

This being Utah I would think that shorthairs are not comfortable here in winters.

Of course in summers they do great.

My cat is a long hair and in the summer I get him a lion cut.

Right now he is shaggy as a polar bear -- and all white too.

Overall I would think German Shepherds are best equipped for the Intermountain West same as their bigger cousins the wolves.

But it all depends on what you want the dog to do -- protect, retrieve, point, etc.

Good luck with the pup when you get it.

Dogs and cats are just like kids -- similar intellects of a 5 to 10 year old human child and much smarter than teenagers.


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## Airborne

Karl said:


> My cat is a long hair and in the summer I get him a lion cut.


I always figured Karl for a cat person, and just received confirmation.


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## Karl

Airborne said:


> I always figured Karl for a cat person, and just received confirmation.


I grew up a horse person.

Never had a dog or cat.

Then 5 years ago several feral cats adopted me and begged for food.

I fed them and rescued their 30 kittens.

I kept the most beautiful one for myself.

He is a white Angora with long fur and worth $10K if you tried to find one just like him.

I don't need a dog to hunt although a dog to guard my place would be nice.


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## MuscleWhitefish

HeberHunter said:


> Looks like I am going the German Shorthaired Pointer route. The breeder we are looking to go with is Best Gun Dogs out of Beaver, Utah. Just wondering on people's opinion of male vs. female? (It will be fixed either way) Would a female be able to pull in a Canadian without an issue? I know the Labs and Goldens do this just fine. Just want to make the the dog will be big enough/well rounded enough for everything.


 It shouldn't matter whether it is a male or female as long as the dog has the drive to do so. I would put money on a Boykin being able to bring in a Goose.

I prefer males, but females get the job done as well.


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## Karl

HeberHunter said:


> Looks like I am going the German Shorthaired Pointer route. The breeder we are looking to go with is Best Gun Dogs out of Beaver, Utah. Just wondering on people's opinion of male vs. female? (It will be fixed either way) Would a female be able to pull in a Canadian without an issue? I know the Labs and Goldens do this just fine. Just want to make the the dog will be big enough/well rounded enough for everything.


A friend of mine who raises hunting dogs says German shorthairs are the best. So this is a good choice.

Congrats.

As far as male or female dogs, if you want to breed them then a fertile female would obviously be the best choice. Otherwise I would guess a male would be preferable.

Dogs and cats have gender roles same as traditional people do. The males are bigger, more aggressive, work harder, and are more playful. The females are breeders and easily dominated by the bigger males.

So I recommend a male German shorthair unless you plan to breed them.


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## Bax*

I am a fan of female dogs. Every male dog I regularly interact with is just too high strung for my liking and the females seem to be more mellow.

The best thing you can do to keep the shedding down on a dog is watch their diet and don't feed them cheap food (yeah, I'm talking about you 'Ol Roy). Diet plays a key factor in how much a dog sheds.

Next, buy a good shedding brush like this: https://www.chewy.com/furminator-lo...2LtgPe3fKZNeCJBAoO5o4aAsvK8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

I bought some knock off brand at Cabelas that cost less than that, but cant remember the brand. But it pulls a ton of hair off my lab.

Finally, get your dog out to play a lot. The more time you spend playing outside, the more hair is left outside and not brought into the house.

We have specific areas that our dog is not allowed to go (kitchen, bedrooms) and it really keeps the hair to a minimum throughout the house.

Seriously though - what ever dog you get, don't feed them crap food. your dog will be healthier and happier.


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## Spry Yellowdog

Guess I better not reply about the male female thing since my females will barely be able to handle a small teal and arn't aggressive enough hunters to work any cover or dig out a tough retrieve.

Spry


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## HeberHunter

Spry Yellowdog said:


> Guess I better not reply about the male female thing since my females will barely be able to handle a small teal and arn't aggressive enough hunters to work any cover or dig out a tough retrieve.
> 
> Spry


That is what I was kind of thinking. I have seen a lot of GSP bringing back Canadians in corn fields. Just wondering if they'd do the same in the marsh. I wouldn't expect them to bring back a swan but swans are once in a blue moon anyway. Thanks for all the feedback. They've got a 12 week old female right now that I've got my eye on. Otherwise I may wait for a different litter and get a male for the size.


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## Bax*

Get what you really want. Don't settle just because that is what's available at the time. 

If you want a boy, then wait for a boy to come along.

This is the only time you can pick the gender of one of your children!


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## MuscleWhitefish

Karl said:


> A friend of mine who raises hunting dogs says German shorthairs are the best. So this is a good choice.
> 
> Congrats.
> 
> As far as male or female dogs, if you want to breed them then a fertile female would obviously be the best choice. Otherwise I would guess a male would be preferable.
> 
> Dogs and cats have gender roles same as traditional people do. The males are bigger, more aggressive, work harder, and are more playful. The females are breeders and easily dominated by the bigger males.
> 
> So I recommend a male German shorthair unless you plan to breed them.


I disagree with anthropomorphism in dogs. Dogs and cats do not have the same traditional gender roles as people. Dogs have different dog motives. Some dogs will do things based upon what their master asks, some dogs will do things based upon their own self interests.

I have seen many female dogs that hump their submissive male counterparts even though they do not have the equipment required to do so. If you think of wolves and their pack structure can have either a male or a female at the head of the pack as the alpha.


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## johnnycake

I prefer female dogs, but have never had an issue with them underperforming. I just don't like to deal with the red dragon poking out and staring at me!


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## MuscleWhitefish

HeberHunter said:


> That is what I was kind of thinking. I have seen a lot of GSP bringing back Canadians in corn fields. Just wondering if they'd do the same in the marsh. I wouldn't expect them to bring back a swan but swans are once in a blue moon anyway. Thanks for all the feedback. They've got a 12 week old female right now that I've got my eye on. Otherwise I may wait for a different litter and get a male for the size.


There are only 2 issues that come to mind with a GSP in the marsh and neither has to do with retrieving game.

One would be the dog wanting to hunt other critters in the area and not wanting to stay in the blind. This easily overcome with training, but without training the bird drive can cause issues with circling birds.

The other issue is cold water. GSP's are highly motivated and will make retrieves in cold water with ice, but the dog can get really cold after the retrieve. Measures should be taken to ensure the dog in warmed after making retrieves in really cold water.

GSP's are great athletes and were originally bred to do it all.


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## HeberHunter

Thanks for all of the replies. In my research I have seen many of the same sentiments. Excited to move forward and get a pup.


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## Ali-MAc

If you go with a GSP or other versatile breed then join up with your local NAVHDA chapter

The NAVHDA tests include duck work as well as traditional upland point and retrieve

In fact duck work such as independent searching is focused on


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## highcreek

I have a litter of GSP hey are from NAVHDA tested VC sire and a UT prize Female these dogs will do it all ready Dec 28,2016 for new home 1 or 2 males available big strong pups call if interested 928 303 2758


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## TAK

highcreek said:


> I have a litter of GSP hey are from NAVHDA tested VC sire and a UT prize Female these dogs will do it all ready Dec 28,2016 for new home 1 or 2 males available big strong pups call if interested 928 303 2758


Post a price, Ped, and pictures...


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## highcreek

TAK price $950 includes AKC and NAVHDA registered UTD on shots and wormed and Micro chipped and delivered to Utah I drive I15 regularly. I can text or email picture and pedigree agree. They are line bread from Garbonita kennel with Jaegerhofs, Sharp Shooter, Hillhaven


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## HeberHunter

Finally got me a pup. He is a German Shorthair/English Pointer cross. A family down in Provo bought him on a whim having no idea that he was a hunting dog and what that meant. They just fell in love with him when they met him and bought him. Needless to say, a week later they regretted their decision and decided to sell him. I found him through the classifieds and the rest is history. He is now 12 weeks old and is doing great. I run him on the rail trail everyday and his nose is to the ground almost all the time. I have had him retrieve a few sticks out of Echo Reservoir and he seems to not mind the water. Do a lot of retrieving in the hallway where he can't run away and play keep away. So far I am very impressed with the pointer line. Whereas I have only had labs it is a nice change of pace. It takes a little getting use to the amount of exercise the dog needs but it is a great excuse to get me off my butt. Currently using the methods found in the book Gun Dog to work on him. He seems to respond well and I am excited for his potential. He has gotten on point with a rabbit and a bird so far so you can tell it is in his instinct.


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## Spry Yellowdog

Enjoy the ride. He's beautiful.


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