# Hunting pressure



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

As I read a few of the post's, I see that members are commenting about crowding, and seeing more hunters in the field. 


Does anyone feel like I do, that it's from the Multi Season Elk tags?


I'm still not convinced that it was a good idea for "more opportunity" of taking an animal. It's a great idea for more time afield, and that chance of actually making it come together. Archery Elk isn't an easy thing to be successful at. It takes time, smarts, and many years to be a percentage of the group that harvests an Elk consistently.


Lets hear your opinions.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> Does anyone feel like I do, that it's from the Multi Season Elk tags?


I don't think multiseason tags are the issue.* It's the population growth in general*. Over the last 3 or 4 years, we've been invaded by a small army of californians, Washingtonians, and Oregonians. They've probably been attracted to Utah because of Silicon slopes. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't think to come here. Our housing market is being Californicated, our Taxes are going up, our quality of life is going down, our cost of living is going up.

Have you been to the otherside of Utah lake? The Urban sprawl has gone beyond eagle Mountain and is in the valley beyond, which they are calling Eagle Valley. It looks like the next LA basin in the making. They don't even use the grid system out there, its mainly californian style street names. Or how about Santaquin? The urban sprawl is starting to creep in down there because the housing is more affordable. I'll wager the housing prices there, are about what they were in Spanish Fork 6-7 years ago.

*My point is, with all this unrestrained growth, and immigration into our state, do you really think they're all going to stay in the city?* of course not. Some of them are going to start buying tags. To be PC about it, I'm already starting to see Non English speaking people from California in the mountains with binocluars, glassing for game. Hell, their entire family is up there with them.

Too much growth, and Utah has been invaded by a swarm of locusts. The increased hunting pressure we are all seeing is a result of this.

I'm pissed off about it, but what there's nothing that can be done. The horse named "Californication" has already left the barn, and there's no stopping it now. At the current rate of growth, In 10-15 years from now, Utah will be unrecognizable.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

It was happening before the multiple season tags. Utah has one of the few growing hunter populations at the moment. Despite Lone's claim, Utah is actually experiencing an average, if not lower end of average, historical rate of population growth not some unprecedented influx of immigrants. It's driven by resident birth rates as much as anything else.

I think DWR is definitely struggling to balance demand vs actual herd sizes. We just don't have the healthiest habitat or the largest expanses of it like some western states. We still obviously have opportunity but not the same as the Rocky Mt states.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

backcountry said:


> It was happening before the multiple season tags. Utah has one of the few growing hunter populations at the moment. D_espite Lone's claim, Utah is actually experiencing an average, if not lower end of average, historical rate of population growth not some unprecedented influx of immigrants. _ It's driven by resident birth rates as much as anything else.
> 
> I think DWR is definitely struggling to balance demand vs actual herd sizes. We just don't have the healthiest habitat or the largest expanses of it like some western states. We still obviously have opportunity but not the same as the Rocky Mt states.


 I don't mean to be argumentative, I really don't, however I really disagree with you there. Are you just looking at statistics that are a few years old? Or have you physically seen this lack of growth? Drive out to Eagle Valley, Santaquin, Spanish Fork and see for yourself if you haven't already. We have Townhomes going in now. That speaks volumes in and of itself. Townhomes were unheard of a few years ago, except for that one monstrocity on state street in Provo. Have you paid attention to car tags on while driving? It seems like 1 out of every 5 or 6 tags is from California. -O,- Not to mention the increase in traffic in general.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

backcountry said:


> Utah is actually experiencing an average, if not lower end of average, historical rate of population growth not some unprecedented influx of immigrants. It's driven by resident birth rates as much as anything else.


Was curious about this and found the following (one of multiple articles stating same):

"1. Utah

1-yr pop. growth rate: 2.03%
Current population: 3.05 million
2015 population: 2.99 million
10-yr pop. growth rate: 20.82%
The population of Utah grew by 2.0% in 2016, *nearly three times the 0.7% national population growth rate and the fastest pace of any state.* Unlike most fast-growing states, the majority of Utah's population increase was due to natural growth. Utah has the largest average family size in the country, and there were 1,854 births per 100,000 people in Utah in 2016 - far more than the national rate of 1,286 births per 100,000 Americans. Utah also has the lowest death rate in the country. While Utah's high birth-to-death ratio accounted for most of the state's population growth, Utah's population also grew more from inbound migration than many other states. The state's population increased by 0.8% due to net migration in 2016, more than double the 0.3% national figure and the ninth highest rate of any state."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/01/15/fastest-growing-and-shrinking-states-closer-look/1019429001/


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I honestly want to believe you guys, but I will believe what I see with my own eyes before I believe some statistics on the internet. I've read them all before, and the projected population growth. Natural birth rates are part of it, but you can't sit there and tell me we aren't getting a huge influx of Californians. I see them every day, and they aren't hard to pick out. Even If I'm wrong about where the growth is coming from (and I don't think I am), population growth in general means more people buying tags, which means more hunting pressure.


Multiseason tags ain't the issue.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Are we talking the states population or hunter participation population? 

The number of hunters has been fixed for the last few years except for archery tags, now how many others that show up in camp is another thing. You can see this to extreme down in the Henry Mountains when one person has a bison tag and there are 10-20 others down there with him. 

Also you haven't seen crowding if you didn't hunt back in the 60's through the 80's in Utah. Back then when you thought that you had the place all to yourself you would notice all kinds of red and then orange pumpkins all over the hills around you.

Multi seasons tags might be one of the problems for a few if all that purchased them show up at the same place all the time.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

gdog said:


> backcountry said:
> 
> 
> > Utah is actually experiencing an average, if not lower end of average, historical rate of population growth not some unprecedented influx of immigrants. It's driven by resident birth rates as much as anything else.
> ...


*Average for Utah.

We've fluctuated between roughly 1.9-2.2% for a while. Normally in the top 3 for national population growth, if not #1. Growth has actually been slightly less than state agencies originally predicted for the 2025 curve.

Despite Lone's anecdotes, resident birth rates outnumber immigration #s almost 2 to 1.

All these numbers grow during economic prosperity, which we've been experiencing for 5-7 years now, depending on county.

I'm an "outsider" who moved here almost 2 decades ago. Every state out west blames Californians like Lone is doing. I suppose I should be glad those of us from east of the Mississippi have the heat off of us but it's still laughable. It's just fear mongering.

Sad to see the "locust" comment on this forum; they are fellow humans, not some infestation of bugs we need to eradicate.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> Are we talking the states population or hunter participation population?
> .


I think population correlates to hunter participation. You increase population in general, and your going to get an increase in just about everything, be it in crime, or drivers licenses being issued, or tags being sold. I remember looking into it a month or two ago, and while tag purchases are decling or stagnet in other states, more tags are being sold in Utah every year.



backcountry said:


> Sad to see the "locust" comment on this forum; they are fellow humans, not some infestation of bugs we need to eradicate.


 Sad to say, I understand California, it's people, and its politics A LOT more then i'm willing to admit to. I've lived there, and I'm ashamed to admit to it. However, I understand them and how most of them think. So I'm calling it like it is based on their behavior. When they move, it ends up being in large numbers. Their attracted to prosperity, and they end up destroying it with their voting habits among other things.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I think population correlates to hunter participation. You increase population in general, and your going to get an increase in just about everything, be it in crime, or drivers licenses being issued, or tags being sold. I remember looking into it a month or two ago, and while tag purchases are decling or stagnet in other states, more tags are being sold in Utah every year.


Which tags are you talking about? General archery or other? Every tag in Utah has been limited for quite a while now except for general archery elk.

I'm not going to take the time to go through a dozen years of statistics but I am sure that if you are concerned about it you might go look at them and then come back with the facts instead of what you think is happening.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Here, knock yourself out:
https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Hunting.htm

I remember going through this before, and I'm pretty sure all it's going to show, is Utah has been on a steady increase in license holders and tags sold.

If one was to use "Total hunting licenses, tags, and stamps" in UT:
2016: 386,403
2017: 410,468
2018: 420,841
2019: 448,838

Or if you want to boil it down to just "Paid hunting licenses holders":
2016: 217,471
2017: 226,225
2018: 236,656
2019: 244,131

Or if you want to compare "Paid hunting licenses holders numbers" to California:
2016: 287,147
2017: 284,069
2018: 280,967
2019: 279,248

I won't sit here and say that there is a direct correlation between UT and CA numbers because here is absolutely no way to prove that. However I will say that as population rises or falls in any given area, hunter participation will too. A certain ratio of any given population will participate in whatever activity. As population increases, the numbers defined by that ratio will increase. As Utah's population rises, so will the number of hunters, and with that, hunting pressure.


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## elkunited (Aug 16, 2019)

I was born in California and moved to Utah when I was 9. Grew up in Utah then moved to Idaho for about 4 years. I lived in North Idaho before making my way back to Utah. Funny thing is the locals to North Idaho still complain about the Californians invading. It's a sad concept to me that people can group a whole state and openly hate on people because of their origin or where they're from. My FIL was born in CA and still hates on them moving to his neighborhood. I can understand why population growth is tough when we're used to a calmer life, but we all have choices to make. I believe you will find what you're looking for. It's all Relative.


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## elkunited (Aug 16, 2019)

But back to the original post, I think what Lone Is saying has accuracy, the more people who move here plus the number of people reaching legal hunting age, the more hunters we'll encounter in the field. Some of these people have no idea how to hunt or what to look for. I also think increasing opportunities is going to make it way more crowded. I guess a great hunting tactic would be to buy land haha.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

I don’t think it has as much to do with out of staters becoming residents, as it does that hunting is now the ‘cool’ thing to do. Just like shed hunting, there’s lots of guys hunting just for the fame on social media. That’s sparked the whole ‘meat movement’ which has lots of dudes applying for every tag possible. If you banned al hunting related content from social media, I think you’d see a sharp decline in Utah hunter numbers.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You cant go by the total number of license sold since that also includes small game licenses where the purchaser never buys a big game tag, if you are judging your crowded feeling on the number of hunters out on the big game hunts. You also have to figure the number of people that are just out enjoying the outdoors. 

In my opinion it isn't hunters but others that are getting out into the woods. Hikers, bikers, sight seers, and others. The big game tag numbers have been fairly stagnant for the last few years that I have seen. 

There were 62,150 general deer tags drawn in the last few years, not counting LE hunts. 

There were only 15,000 spike elk tags and 15,000 any bull tags sold, not counting LE hunts or archery


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

To be fair the OP seems to be talking about elk and the trend line for hunters afield for that species has increased drastically the last 20 years. 

I'm guessing we are also seeing more "crowding" in more concentrated locations as people become better at locating them on certain units. 

Mule deer pressure obviously doesn't compare to the 80s by a long shot. I'm guessing people can notice a difference on the years they release more tags given most hunters focus on the weekends though. Even if it's a fraction of what it was 3 decades ago we'll adjust and feel the subtle changes. 

And Critter is right, we have seen an increase in licenses sold but that doesn't necessarily translate well into field pressure. I was incorrect in mentioning that fact in relation to crowding.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Wow, way too much info for me to read here..

Here’s my thoughts, I don’t think the multi season tag was a good idea, I did buy one this year because if you can’t beat em then join em!

All the multi season tag is doing is making sure we kill off as many elk as possible because more time in the field gives you a greater chance of success. And as far as open bull units go, we don’t need to kill off more that we already do, 

Look at Idaho, Wyoming, and Colorado. Why is it that as soon as you cross state line into Utah the herd quality suffers? (DWR?) and don’t give me some spill about low quality resources because every mountain range that I hike through has more than enough food/water/shelter.

Since the multi season tag, yes I have seen hunter population double in the area I hunt in the Uintahs.. everything was good and fine for the last 12 years and then multi season availability came along and BAM! Hunters afield doubled! 

Yes more people moving to Utah contributes to hunter pop size but, talking elk specifically this multi season tag is a bad idea. Where I hunt, there ain’t no way in heck that new hunters just end up in there, no way no how, it’s everyone who has hunted up there with their weapon of choice now have the availability to hunt all three hunts..


As far as population growth, I’ve been building houses for 13-14 years now, my boss keeps up on building stats and progress, he told me that from Ogden to Provo, the population is expected to grow something like 1.2 million people over the next 15-20 years, 

Soooo, it isn’t going to get any better 

DWR herd management tactics, well that’s for a different thread..

Here’s a trail cam picture of a bull I’m after on an open bull unit this year..
I don’t know why it cut out the bottom half of the picture but, I’ll see if I can fix it


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

I don’t think multi tags are really increasing success rates. Elk are tough for most people to find, and even more so to kill. The same guys killing elk every year before the multi tags, are still the ones killing them now. You might have a few more get killed on accident than you normally would have, but over all it’s still the same 10% of the guys killing 90% of the elk. 

This is another topic for another day. I’m sure there’s more guys out with multi tags now than there was when they had to pic a season, but to blame the DWR for wanting all the elk dead and this was their solution isn’t accurate. I can’t remember what board meeting they discussed how many bought multi tags last year over the single season tag, but I was shocked how low the number was. It was so low that I can’t imagine there’s that much of a noticeable increase in hunter numbers spread over so many seasons during 3 hunts.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I still think the DWR is a joke... “change my mind”

Show me where in my comment that I said the DWR wanted to kill all the elk off. I was simply implying that the multi season is a good start to doing so..

Open bull units have low elk numbers to begin with...


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

~goosefreak~
Danger, Danger. You'll find yourself typing phantom posts ahead you never knew existed right before your PM priviledge is taken away. Danger Danger


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

olibooger said:


> ~goosefreak~
> Danger, Danger. You'll find yourself typing phantom posts ahead you never knew existed right before your PM priviledge is taken away. Danger Danger


So long for free speech! Now you've got me scared!!


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I started hunting mid 80s, my dad late 60s, he doesn't remember the amount of people that are so dedicated to killing a trophy. 
Yes there where more people hunting deer. But did they leave camp, not really.

Now everyone is hunting harder longer (ie 2 weeks off work), and deeper in the forest. I also dont think as many people elk hunted back then. 
So yes the number a pretty constant but with people trying harder it seems more crowded.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> All the multi season tag is doing is making sure we kill off as many elk as possible


Right here...


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > All the multi season tag is doing is making sure we kill off as many elk as possible
> ...


Yup, looks like your wrong.... or am I just failing to see the mentioning of "DWR"?

It looks as if I'm putting the blame on "we"

Ignorance is bliss though, right?


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I believe the DWR is watching very closely the trends with the multi season elk tags.
As for over crowding I actually think there has been less pressure where I hunt on the archery hunt. But then it is a lowly spike unit.
And while I don't have the facts, I don't believe the success ratios have astronomically climbed with multi season tags.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> (DWR?)


You can play dumb all you want, you're implying the (DWR) is trying to kill off as many elk as possible, multi tags are just a way they are trying to do it


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > (DWR?)
> ...


Dumb?? Ha ha, if the shoe fits pal..

Yes, you are correct, that's what I am implying, that you did guess right BUT? There is a difference in intentionally and ignorantly,

I don't think they are intentionally doing so, as you accused me of saying, ignorantly? Well, yes I think they are ignorantly killing off more elk then they should considering the low numbers in the open bull units anyways..


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Dumb?? Ha ha, if the shoe fits pal..
> 
> Yes, you are correct, that's what I am implying, that you did guess right BUT? There is a difference in intentionally and ignorantly,
> 
> I don't think they are intentionally doing so, as you accused me of saying, ignorantly? Well, yes I think they are ignorantly killing off more elk then they should considering the low numbers in the open bull units anyways..


Ok.......... . . . . .:roll:


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Sure the multi season has put more hunters in the field, only reason to purchase the tag is to hunt more seasons. I feel it favors bow hunters more than any group but I'm sure there are a lot of rifle hunters giving bow a try since it doesn't hurt them now. I guess the only good thing is the bow hunters don't have there season over the prime rut time.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

muddydogs said:


> Sure the multi season has put more hunters in the field, only reason to purchase the tag is to hunt more seasons. I feel it favors bow hunters more than any group but I'm sure there are a lot of rifle hunters giving bow a try since it doesn't hurt them now. I guess the only good thing is the bow hunters don't have there season over the prime rut time.


I'd like to see the general any bull archery start Sept 1 and go for 3-4 weeks.

I'd pay $150 for a tag like that instead of a multi season


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

goosefreak said:


> I'd like to see the general any bull archery start Sept 1 and go for 3-4 weeks.
> 
> I'd pay $150 for a tag like that instead of a multi season


I can just imagine how that would go over with the LE elk hunters, having others chasing spikes while they are trying to shoot something else.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Critter said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to see the general any bull archery start Sept 1 and go for 3-4 weeks.
> ...


Any bull! There are no LE hunts on any of the "Any bull" units..


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Any bull! There are no LE hunts on any of the "Any bull" units..


Technically...... the youth elk hunt is a "LE" type hunt....


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Any bull! There are no LE hunts on any of the "Any bull" units..
> ...


That's not what critter was talking about, geeze, I must have really gotten under your skin........oh well


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

By the way, youth can still hunt, but as an adult I’ll never be able to apply for a youth tag. So your argument isn’t gonna stack up well if we start arguing the logistics of a general archery and youth any bull shared unit..

But I’m sure we’re going to hear what you have to say anyways


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Let me ask you this.

What’s the difference in sharing the whole month of September on an any bull unit with the youth hunters 
When comparing it to all the deer, cow and spike hunters sharing the same hunt dates as the LE guys??


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> That's not what critter was talking about, geeze, I must have really gotten under your skin........oh well


It appears it's the other way around. You're the one making multiple posts in a row without anyone else commenting inbetween... hahahahaha


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > That's not what critter was talking about, geeze, I must have really gotten under your skin........oh well
> ...


So then you can't tell me the difference?


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Let me ask you this.
> 
> What's the difference in sharing the whole month of September on an any bull unit with the youth hunters
> When comparing it to all the deer, cow and spike hunters sharing the same hunt dates as the LE guys??


Well dumb dumb.... the any bull units have the same deer, cow, doe and upland hunts the LE do in September, as well as the youth hunt.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Let me ask you this.
> ...


Exactly!! See you are smart! There is no difference!! 
But, the problem that we're talking about now since critters concern was running the archery hunt for the whole month of September. Saying it's gonna mess people up, and my comment was referring to the current hunts and no "real LE" hunt going on in any bull units and I was asking what's the difference between the way it is now

And you thought you'd be sly and say "o, well technically the youth any bull is LE" and bla bla bla... that's when I made my reference to the "what's the difference" comment.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

The difference is if you mess with the system, the entire state has to follow that format and there is no way you’ll get the LE rifle hunt out of the rut, at least not in this century. So with that in mind, your suggestion isn’t possible. If you want to hunt September archery elk in Utah, learn a place on the front and hunt the extended season. That’s the best option you have right now for Utah archery elk in September.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

So, since you have a sloppy way of arguing let’s start over..

I would like to see the General OTC Archery elk run the whole month of September within the “Any bull” unit and the youth can still hunt, since its not a hunt I have an opinion of applying for anyways that hunt would be not applicable to me. 

Then the argument was “ it’s gonna piss off the LE guys” 

But, we have already established that besides the youth, there are no LE hunts on an open bull unit

So, tell me how that’s any different from letting the general archery deer,cow, and spike hunters hunt by the hundreds I might add, at the same time as the LE Archery elk guys?

And.....go!


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Tell me how managing an any bull unit is going to effect an LE unit??


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Tell me how managing an any bull unit is going to effect an LE unit??


For starters, the state doesn't "manage" any bull units. That's why they are any bull units. The state manages LE units and cow populations through the state.

You want a certain hunt catered to you. Which is fine, we all have stuff we could change. A year or so ago the division sent out surveys and held RACs discussing this very thing you want to change. They found the majority of the hunters didn't want a season structure change. Did you go to the RACs and voice your opinion? Did you go to the board meeting and talk about it then? I watch every board meeting and I don't recall anyone in favor of changing things when it was time to vote on it.

You get a month to hunt archery already. That month gives you plenty of time to chase elk and use several different tactics if you want to. You and I both know there's more ways to kill a bull than just calling one into you. Personally I think elk are easier to kill the last 2 weeks of August than they are mid September during the rut. I've done both many times so I'm speaking from experience. Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, Colorado and Montana give you the exact season structure you are after for archery elk. Maybe you need to invest some time pursuing that if you haven't already done so.

I'm not in an arguing mood tonight. So I'll finish this now. You're right, I'm wrong. Take it up with the people who decide these things. Starting another pointless thread on this very topic that's been beat to death over the years isn't going to change anything. Me personally, I'd be sad to see archery elk get pulled from August in Utah. That's just me.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I’m done, I have other things requiring my attention right now but, I think we have gone a little off track here, 
Okay “IF” the DWR can’t use their brains to organize the OTC archery elk hunt like the other surrounding states have, why is it the multi season tag is our option?? To provide more opportunity to hunt an already suffering management plan? 
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got a hot spot in the Uintahs but, I’m talking about state wide as a whole.

I was watching a Randy Newburg FB live and someone asked him the question why he doesn’t come to Utah to film his hunts, he said something along the lines of,

“ We are public land hunters and we make our videos to show people what kind of elk hunting the western United States has to offer for the average guy that wants to go out and buy a tag over the counter and have a good hunt and be successful, Utah manages their elk herds differently than many of the other states but, those are limited draw units and their over the counter any bull units don’t provide they type of quality hunt that all the other states have to offer for someone who wants to buy a tag and go do it and have success”

I believe Randy, he’s killed more elk that Gandhi..


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> I believe Randy, he's killed more elk that Gandhi..


You wanna talk about hunting pressure and what's causing it, look no further than your bro randy! That guy has destroyed a ton of public land opportunity all in the name of "conservation" and DIY hunting! Oh, and the almighty $$$. He's exposed, through every source of social media know to man, all kinds of hidden or widely unknown opportunities. Guys like him haven't been a great thing as far as public land OTC tag opportunity is concerned.

BTW, he's hunted Utah many times. He might have better OTC elk hunting opportunities in other states, but he sure likes the trophy quality Utah has to offer. He's said so many times.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > I believe Randy, he's killed more elk that Gandhi..
> ...


Man, you sure aren't too bright are ya.... 
I NEVER said he doesn't hunt Utah, I said he doesn't hunt OTC in Utah.. dumb dumb.
Remember, pay attention to the argument..

Says the guy who cries when someone gives out a reminder about the draw period.

Your selfish....BRO.. good luck to ya!


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Randy Newberg also doctors his video and obtains most of his permits in a way the average hunter can't. His Henry's Buffalo hunt was a total fake. He kills the buffalo that someone else is tracking right next to the road. The shots where taken and then edited to make it look like a real stock/hunt. Sheep is right it is the social media that is making the hunting crowded.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Man, you sure aren't too bright are ya....
> I NEVER said he doesn't hunt Utah, I said he doesn't hunt OTC in Utah.. dumb dumb.
> Remember, pay attention to the argument..
> 
> ...


phuck me, i've met some dumb guys with access to a keyboard over the years, but you are doing a great job at nearing the top of the stupid list. you cant even remember what you said in your last post!

to refresh your memory, you said that he said he doesn't hunt in Utah. you also implied that it was because our OTC hunting doesn't offer what he wants in a hunt. i stated that you were wrong in the statement that he doesn't hunt in Utah, because he does, as much as he can, in trophy managed areas. but when it comes to OTC opportunities, he has better states to invest his time in.

its funny you criticize me for trying to lessen the advertising of draw application periods, which helps reduce "pressure" from everyone and their 4 dead grandmas applying for tags that they probably wont even go hunting for, when here you are complaining about the hunt dates and crowding, for a hunt that has been very publicized and in turn, increased popularity, over the last 10 years.

quit being a little bitch and go kill an elk with the dates you're given or find another hunt that is more to your standards. tons of guys kill bulls every year, in august with a bow, usually in the first week of the season. its apparent you aren't one of them, so you want to change the dates to hopefully increase your chances of being more successful.

anyone can kill a bull when they are vocal, in the rut. not everyone can kill them when they are silent, the weather is hot and they are in the thick trees during daylight hours.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Brookie said:


> Sheep is right it is the social media that is making the hunting crowded.


Ya so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !:gossip: totfp


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Man, you sure aren't too bright are ya....
> ...


Just for the record, I didn't read the rest of your comment after the first paragraph except for the part where you hurt my feelings by calling me a bitch , ain't worth my time. I've already got my confirmation about the type of person you are. No need beating a dead horse..

I've killed 6 mature bulls on our
OTC units with my bow... BTW.. thanks!


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Just for the record, I didn't read the rest of your comment after the first paragraph except for the part where you hurt my feelings by calling me a bitch , ain't worth my time. I've already got my confirmation about the type of person you are. No need beating a dead horse..
> 
> I've killed 6 mature bulls on our
> OTC units with my bow... BTW.. thanks!


6????? Holy smokes I didn't know I was dealing with a pro! How many sponsors do you have??

Wanna argue about what color the sky is now? :roll:


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Just for the record, I didn't read the rest of your comment after the first paragraph except for the part where you hurt my feelings by calling me a bitch , ain't worth my time. I've already got my confirmation about the type of person you are. No need beating a dead horse..
> ...


Continually solidifying my confirmation! I guess you do want to beat a dead horse ...


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

And here you are, still commenting.... I’m still just blown away at your 6 archery bulls. I’m so impressed! Just wow :shock: I bet you wake up every morning and piss excellence because you’re a winner! Can you teach me how to kill elk?? I’ve never killed one and want to really bad!


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> And here you are, still commenting.... I'm still just blown away at your 6 archery bulls. I'm so impressed! Just wow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HA! You've been watching me pee again haven't you!?!


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Brookie said:
> 
> 
> > Sheep is right it is the social media that is making the hunting crowded.
> ...


I certainly agree that social media as well as entertainment media in general has increased the popularity. I've seen that in all the outdoor recreation sectors. Ultrarunning on trails used to be a niche weirdo hobby, now it's a fully blown commercialized sport where there's full time pro athletes, more people running on trails than ever, and so much garbage media about trail running than I ever imagined possible. This has also happened with climbing, hiking, etc. I never in my life thought that the hunting industry would turn into what it is now.

Sure the multiseason tag would put more people out there, the influx of people into Utah will put more out there (I moved here from Illinois just by random chance and only decided to elk hunt because mule deer are sad compared to white tail in my opinion), and the media hype is increasing the number of hunters out there.

It's not something we can do anything about, just like the unfortunate reality of the world's population continuing to increase all the time as well as the number of people out in the woods on a regular basis. 
Whether they are English speaking or not, from Utah or California or Mongolia, I don't really care. It's really cool that all law abiding American citizens have the opportunity to get into our beautiful country and chase wild game, regardless of their heritage or upbringing. We just have to figure out ways to share the woods and not divulge the good spots!


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> HA! You've been watching me pee again haven't you!?!


I said "I bet", which implies I don't know for sure, but I've got a suspicion... come on stay with the class.

So back to killing elk. I'm serious! Can you teach me your ways?? I wanna be an elk hunter, just like you!


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

rtockstein said:


> mule deer are sad compared to white tail in my opinion


You've obviously never seen a BIG muley in the mountains of a GS unit with a tag in your pocket then...


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > HA! You've been watching me pee again haven't you!?!
> ...


Ha, I'm lovin' this! I've got you so wound up it's not even funny. Or is it? Ripped that page right out of your ol play book.

Hey listen, here in a minute I'm gonna have to get these trusses set on this house. So I might have to put a pause on this but, don't let it stop you.. till then, what else you got?


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

goosefreak said:


> Ha, I'm lovin' this! I've got you so wound up it's not even funny. Or is it? Ripped that page right out of your ol play book.
> 
> Hey listen, here in a minute I'm gonna have to get these trusses set on this house. So I might have to put a pause on this but, don't let it stop you.. till then, what else you got?


Haha if you think this is me fired up, you don't know me very well. I just think it's funny that you threw out the 6 bulls at me like I'm going to be impressed with that. Whoopyphuckindo

Anyways, get back to building those houses, contributing to more and more people moving into Utah, creating more hunting pressure and ruining your hunting experiences


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

sheepassassin said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Ha, I'm lovin' this! I've got you so wound up it's not even funny. Or is it? Ripped that page right out of your ol play book.
> ...


The reason why I threw the 6 bulls card was because you were implying that I have a hard time killing elk with the current season dates and that was my way of saying I don't have a problem being successful, I didn't know it was gonna cause you to have a panic attack or I would have worded it differently..


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

sheepassassin said:


> rtockstein said:
> 
> 
> > mule deer are sad compared to white tail in my opinion
> ...


I certainly haven't! It's just my nostalgia for whitetail.

I do however have a Wasatch west unit mule buck tag I need to fill before that season ends. I spent all my time on elk and now have to try to get lucky with the mulies!


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Sheep and Goose both need a time out! Why don't you guys meet out by flagpole and settle this argument like other children do.:shock:


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> Sheep and Goose both need a time out! Why don't you guys meet out by flagpole and settle this argument like other children do.


I'm calm, I just needed to shoot some nails! Screw the flagpole, I say we meet at rodizio Grill!


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

That was freaking entertaining! Hahaha I thought I was at dinner with my two sisters! Carry on! And dont worry in about twenty years when us older guys pass on the woods will be less stressed as the snowflakes growing up will hunt online via drones!! Its all good.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Aznative said:


> That was freaking entertaining! Hahaha I thought I was at dinner with my two sisters!


Not a chance, I'm way better looking than your sister!


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Haha probably!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

This WAS my favorite thread.


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