# Shed Hunting



## PlantMAN (Oct 26, 2007)

I am going the July RAC meeting. I saw this on the agenda. What do you think? I don't like to idea of having to pay to go shed hunting. :evil: Passing a test does prove that you will not bother wild life on winter ranges.  :!: 


"Shed antler gathering

A committee is looking for ways to make late winter and early spring easier for deer, elk and moose.

That's the time of year when people swarm over the animal's winter ranges in search of antlers that dropped off the animals' heads during the winter.

The DWR assembled the committee. Now the division wants to know your thoughts about the committee's ideas. They're also interested in any new ideas you may have.

"Late winter and early spring is a critical time for big game animals," says Mike Fowlks, chief of the DWR's Law Enforcement Section. "It's a time of year when the animals are usually stressed and weak. It's also a time when the habitat the animals rely on can be easily damaged.

"We like the committee's ideas, but we're open to other ideas too."

The committee is proposing the following:

Requiring written authorization from the DWR to gather shed antlers in Utah from Jan. 1 – May 15. Written authorization would be given after the person completed an ethics course at the DWR's Web site. The course would provide tips on how to gather antlers in a way that doesn't disturb big game animals or damage their habitat. 
Those who wanted to gather antlers after May 15 would not be required to complete the course. 
The director of the DWR could close shed antler gathering, on an emergency basis, in any part of the state where the practice was harming wildlife. 
The Shed Antler Gathering Committee is undecided on whether a fee should be charged to complete the course. The 10-person committee includes representatives from the Mule Deer Foundation, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, the Utah Bowmen's Association and two at-large representatives. DWR staff have made themselves available to answer the group's questions and provide them with information.

"Please let us know what you think about the committee's ideas," Fowlks says. "We're also open to any new ideas you may have."

After gathering public input, the committee will put its final recommendations together. The DWR will present those recommendations at a series of public meetings in November


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

thats pretty easy for me to decide just stay of the winter range till after may 15 than you would not need the ethics course and what the hey it would give the animals a much needed brake.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

The permit would NOT cost shed hunters a dime, all you will have to do is take an online ethics course and a permit will be issued. I applaud all those who have drawn up these proposals.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

I think the course is a good idea and hopefully it helps out with those harrassing the wildlife.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

I happen to sit on the shed committee and helped draw up the proposals.
If you want to make this out to be a money thing, well it is just that.
The state is going to continue to fork out a ton of money fighting law beakers and educating the sportsman about ethics and habitat destruction......and all while all it will cost you is a little bit of your time if you want to collect antlers between Jan 31st thru may 15th. 
Then after that, it's a free for all for anyone and everyone, anywhere you want to go that not on private property. 

The plan is to help reduce the amount of people in the hills during the most vulnerable time for the animals, it's a pretty painless and totally beneficial plan for both the people, and more importantly....the wildlife. 

SKULL KRAZY


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## PlantMAN (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree that it will be the best for the wildlife here in Utah. I hope that this will be enforced strongly and we will see more and more wildlife of all kinds in Utah.  Thanks for all the input now I can go the RAC meeting better informed.

My hat is off to those who come to meeting and sit on boards. They are making the difference in the quality of hunting.  Thats why I go RAC meeting*s* and have joined local wildlife charity and the DH program.

There is a good book out that is worth reading called The Last Child In The Woods *saving our children from nature deficit disorder[/u*].

We need to make sportsmen activities more available not less. I do realize that keeping people off the winter ranges during critical times will increase the chances of my children having a chance to hunt.


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## drifter (Feb 19, 2008)

Comparing this thread with the statewide archery thread. Is the jist of this proposal trying to keep people from being more aware of how they as a human create an impact on the wildlife around them? As an archer myself, the thinking that we have a minimal impact during the archery hunt is wrong. I like both proposals to try to educate shed hunters and to know how many hunters and what units they are allowed to hunt on will be a start in bringing back the Utah deer herd

Drifter


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Thank you drifter.
There are an estimated 150,000 shed hunters in the state, more than there are actual deer hunters.

Most of them shed hunt in the early spring (between the proposed permit dates)....that's a lot of habitat and wildlife stress at the most vulnerable times for both!


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

Yeah, just what we need in the land of the free, more dictators telling when and where I can go.

By the way, how does a “license” improve the conduct of those subjects who have them? Is that like my drivers license makes me a more courteous and safe driver?

I like New Hampshire’s state motto “Live free or die”. Ours should be, live free or…legislate!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm all for it here's the link since it hasn't been posted yet:

Shed Gathering Proposal


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> Yeah, just what we need in the land of the free, more dictators telling when and where I can go.
> 
> By the way, how does a "license" improve the conduct of those subjects who have them? Is that like my drivers license makes me a more courteous and safe driver?
> 
> I like New Hampshire's state motto "Live free or die". Ours should be, live free or&#8230;legislate!


So, what do YOU suggest we/DWR do to stop the IDIOTS from harassing deer/elk during crucial winter months?

And yes, making one take a course to learn how to drive 'safe' is MUCH better than just turning folks loose behind the wheel. :?

How about, "Live RESPONSIBLE in order to be free"? :shock:


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

DBcooper-
Your exactly right!!
The "permit" DOESN'T help improve the conduct at all, but the education that takes place PRIOR to you obtaining it, does. :wink: 

SKULL KRAZY


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## rugerdogdog (Nov 18, 2007)

I dont believe it will. If you are chasing and shooting at animals and tearing up the landscape then next year you take a class (online no less) and do those things with written permission in your pocket. 
Everybody here knows, folks that do that sort of thing wont be improved by a class. Would they even take the class? 
The part that really erks me though is that the DWR has just found another resource to make ANOTHER 10 bucks from each and every one of us...and then some.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

ruger ruger ruger.....
Show me where it's going to cost you $10 for this permit?
I sit on the committee, there IS no fee for the permit....WTF???

And if someone is shooting and tearing up the lanscape while shed hunting in the spring, then there's something seriously wrong with that dude!!

And as for the guys who don't want to take the online ethics course....
That's just fine and dandy, they have that option, those fine folks can go ahead on May 16th and do whatever they please.


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> So, what do YOU suggest we/DWR do to stop the IDIOTS from harassing deer/elk during crucial winter months?


The first thing I would do is suggest you and others stop the impulse to have government solve your problems. Your like a child who has friends that he's not getting along with so he runs home to mommy and ask her to punish them and make them stop. Grow up!



proutdoors said:


> And yes, making one take a course to learn how to drive 'safe' is MUCH better than just turning folks loose behind the wheel. :?


"...making one take a course..."
"...turning folks loose..." 
Your tyrannical ways are showing through. 
Where to begin... If "education" where the answer, why do we have spell checker? And after all the "education" we receive and spell checker, why do so many on this sight have such trouble with spelling? "Education", more often than not, gives one a false sense of security.
I seem to recall a man named Mao sending people who he thought were "idiots" to re-education camps. I'm not impressed!



proutdoors said:


> How about, "Live RESPONSIBLE in order to be free"?


Let's see...if I have been RESPONSIBLE and not harassed game gathering sheds then why are you trying to take away my freedoms? With people like you, living RESPONSIBLE is never enough to maintain freedom.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

DB-
It's not PRO, me or ANY government taking away YOUR freedoms, it's the idiots that are making us make the laws that are taking away your freedoms, fight them, not us!!

I myself am an avid shed hunter, have been for 20 years, you think i like taking a mandatory course for ethics and habitat destruction that i have always already known about (it's called common sense!) from the time i picked up my very first antler?
It's a waste of MY time too Coop, and i am part of making it a law!!
But guess what, I have to take this course because of the idiots, but i aint bitching!! :evil:

(sorry if i spelled something wrong, i could care less about a typo)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> The first thing I would do is suggest you and others stop the impulse to have government solve your problems. Your like a child who has friends that he's not getting along with so he runs home to mommy and ask her to punish them and make them stop. Grow up!
> 
> "...making one take a course..."
> "...turning folks loose..."
> ...


So, using your 'logic' there should be NO LAWS, NO RESTRICTIONS, is that right? Having someone take a VOLUNTARY course is somehow being linked to Mao, that's funny right there. You will still be 'FREE' to gather sheds, once you act like an adult and show the maturity to be considerate of others and wildlife. This isn't just about you/me.


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## PlantMAN (Oct 26, 2007)

It seems that we may have gotten away from the question a bit. Education is great for those who want to learn. I think its safe to say that those harassing wildlife need an education of a different kind.

Maybe we should create and enforce rules around harassing wildlife only. Lets not punish those who follow proper respect for our wildlife. Would we make a good driver go to driving school? NO We would send a bad driver. (maybe even my wife)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

PlantMAN said:


> It seems that we may have gotten away from the question a bit. Education is great for those who want to learn. I think its safe to say that those harassing wildlife need an education of a different kind.
> 
> Maybe we should create and enforce rules around harassing wildlife only. Lets not punish those who follow proper respect for our wildlife. Would we make a good driver go to driving school? NO We would send a bad driver. (maybe even my wife)


So, are you saying hunter safety should be done away with? Remember, a good portion of hunter safety is on how to be a good STEWARD, something Cooper seems to know little about. The abuse has gotten way out of control on shed hunting, wildlife ARE being harassed, and it needs to be addressed. I personally see having to take a on-line FREE course the least I as a steward should be willing to do to help wildlife/hunting. _(O)_


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

Skull, I’m not trying to be a snob with the comments about misspelling. My point about “education” is, it’s not a panacea. It’s only effective if one is inquisitive and wants to learn. Your last statement about not caring about typos could apply just as well to game

(Sorry if I did something wrong shed hunting, I could care less about an elk)

I don’t have any hard evidence since we don’t have any evidence that this is a problem.
But my hunch is after someone gets “educated” they will be embolden to get closer to game and be less cautious than they otherwise would because of the false sense of security they will get from the online “course”. Imagine that, government making the problem worse. No, that never happens. And we have to give up our freedoms in the process. I say nay!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

DBCooper, did you pick your user name because you like to "hijack" topics? :? Are you nibblenuts gone underground? Inquiring minds want to know. :?:


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## GSPS ROCK (Sep 14, 2007)

My problem with the dates is if one is allowed to hit the hills in April chasing turkeys with a shotgun then why can't I hit the hills looking for sheds...........


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

GSPS-
That is a great point and one that was discussed in the meetings.

Turkey hunters aren't directly following big game animals and trailing them looking for drops.

Again, these dates are to "reduce" the number of people in the hills during the designated time fraim, not prohibit it completely. 

Now.....the state WILL have the power to completely shut down to EVERYONE on the WMA (wildlife management areas) properties owned and controlled by the state in an extreme winter emergency like we had this past winter, and that would include turkey hunting would not be allowed in those areas.

SKULL KRAZY


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

DBCOOPER-

Ok your right, laws simply don't work.
Lets call the whole thing off and just let the people run it however they ant too.

And when you continue to see YOUR deer herds declining due to all the trama they have to deal with with every season, especially when they are fawning, you can feel proud that you did your part.........by doing absolutely nothing.


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## ACHY (Oct 18, 2007)

skull krazy -
perhaps you could enlighten me on one thing, since you have said you were on the committee and present in the meetings. The article I read said it was still undecided on whether or not a fee would be charged to take the online course. That sounds to me like there is still a possiblilty that it could cost something to get this permit. Has there been a decision not to do so, and I just haven't heard about it yet?

Personally, I think there would be nothing wrong with requiring a course like this (I'm still undecided about paying for it). And I don't think it is taking away any of our freedoms. The state has been given the responsibility to manage wildlife as it sees fit. Shed hunting has become a problem in some areas and they are trying to find a solution without shutting it down completely. I think that is admirable. Will the ethics course solve all the problems? Probably not, there will always be a few thoughtless jerks out there, but I think it is a step in the right direction.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

ACHY-
In the original meeting, a fee WAS proposed by the committe and we wanted it "ear tagged" to stay In the wildlife fund to help pay for the habitat and sign projects.
There are an estmated 150,000 shed hunters in the state, moe than actual deer hunters, a $5 or $10 fee X150,000 is a substantual amount of money that was "promised" to stay IN the wildlife fund and NOT to go i the general fund.

When the proposals went to the RAC, they liked everything we had come up with EXCEPT the fee.
They knew it would open up a can of worms (like it has) trying to get the public to pay for something they have already been doing for so many years....understandably. 

The RAC meetings are for "proposals", they are still trying to get public input as to if they even DARE ask for a fee. 

Great question though, thanks for bringing it up!!


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## ACHY (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification skull krazy! And thanks for taking part in finding a solution to this issue.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

ACHY-
You are very much welcome!!

And to you and anyone else concerned about issues on the rise with these new shed hunting proposals, i STRONGLY urge you too attend the remaining RAC meetings to voice your opinions.
(dates and locations are on the division website)

I just now spoke with Mike Fowlkes at the DNR about the proposed fee being brought up again, he again said the people need to "speak and voice their opinions..we WILL listen."

So in short, as of now there is no fee on the table.
Keeping it that way is up to us as sportsman with a voice.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Doug, thanks for being willing to SHOW UP! You the man.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

My pleasure PRO!

....i still can't beleive i let you talk me into doing this thing, i used to have a lot of friends!!


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## Bullcrazy (Dec 28, 2007)

As a long time shed hunter I would welcome a $10.00 permit fee or require at least a combination license as long as the money went for enforcement and extra patrols during shed season. Something like the UHP does with DUI patrols. The CO in our area covers two counties and does a great job but there is no way for him to be everywhere. Use the money to bring in extra help in the high traffic areas as needed.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

skull i thing you and all involfed deserve a pat on the back i hope this goes through even if there would be a moderate price involfed the greater good it would accomplish outways by for the miner inconvinince of a few who as it sounds are only out for there own interests. again good job folks and a heartfelt thank you


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> My pleasure PRO!
> 
> ....i still can't beleive i let you talk me into doing this thing, i used to have a lot of friends!!


My pleasure, I didn't want all the fun. That is how I am, I share. I am just glad you accepted the request and helped like you did. You got the guns to fight off the naysayers, these guys wouldn't lip off to you if they ever say the cannons you have hanging from your torso. :shock:


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Now don't go scaring them away PRO, i just got two new friends, mack & bull!! Lol


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > So, what do YOU suggest we/DWR do to stop the IDIOTS from harassing deer/elk during crucial winter months?
> ...


 -BaHa!- -BaHa!- *OOO* -()/- -()/>- To bad you don't have grammar check. :wink: :lol: Just playing with you.


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## PlantMAN (Oct 26, 2007)

> My pleasure, I didn't want all the fun. That is how I am, I share. I am just glad you accepted the request and helped like you did. You got the guns to fight off the naysayers, these guys wouldn't lip off to you if they ever say the cannons you have hanging from your torso.


Pro you forgot to mention skull krazy's big blue ox.

Skull Krazy thanks for all the work. See you at the RAC meeting.


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

jahan said:


> To bad you don't have grammar check


Thats the really sad part, I do. I was so far off it came back with "No suggestions"


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > To bad you don't have grammar check
> ...


I reread my statement 10 times just to make sure I didn't have a grammar error after bringing up yours. :shock:  :lol:


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

plantman-

I'll be at the Springville RAC on the 15th.

Your welcome, and thank YOU for staying open minded about all of this, it means a lot!!

We all need to "self police" as much as possible too, the fines ARE going up for offenders.


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

skull krazy said:


> Now don't go scaring them away PRO, i just got two new friends, mack & bull!! Lol





proutdoors said:


> My pleasure, I didn't want all the fun. That is how I am, I share. I am just glad you accepted the request and helped like you did. You got the guns to fight off the naysayers, these guys wouldn't lip off to you if they ever say the cannons you have hanging from your torso.


If this is the mentality of the majority of the people "involved" in wildlife preservation, we are in deep dodo.

First Pro, this sounds very juvenile. Might does not make right. And if intimidation or the attempt at intimidation is how you solve your problems at your precious RAC meetings it's no wonder more people don't get involved. Your infatuation with size is pretty humorous.
Your might makes right mentality is very disconcerting. What happens when the majority of people or Supreme Court judges don't think you have a right to guns (5-4 is pretty precarious)? Does that make it right?

No disrespect or "lipping" off was intended. My point was that most people on this sight would have to be considered well educated by most standards. But, if they don't care or have different priorities - some have flat out said they don't care about spelling. Does that make them dumb? NO! It means, in spite of a good education they don't care about spelling. And like people who go into the woods with a diploma from the DWR if they don't care, the class won't help one bit. And like I mentioned earlier, it might make it worse. I don't know, but it would not surprise me if it did make it worse. If you don't have any evidence that it will help then yes, count me as one who thinks in this case that less is more and we should not impose restrictions on everyone because of a few.

For the record, arms don't scare me and if Skull wants to meet me at the flag pole at recess, I would be more than happy to oblige :roll:



skull krazy said:


> It's not PRO, me or ANY government taking away YOUR freedoms, it's the idiots that are making us make the laws that are taking away your freedoms, fight them, not us!! .


Many of the things you and others are saying - especially this quote from Skull - sound very similar to the nonsense the Sarah Brady et als are saying with regards restricting and/or taking away gun ownership because of a few criminals who use guns to commit crime - all in the name of helping out. You, like them, mistake effort with progress.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

DBCooper, you need to take a deep breath and LIGHTEN UP! skull krazy is a body builder and is RIPPED. I like giving him a ribbing every now and then. If you are so insecure with who you are, too **** bad. I NEVER expected any ADULTS to take my comments on Doug's arm size serious, WTH?

Again, your 'logic' says we should do away with ALL laws. That shows you are either nothing more than a troll, or someone who has a shallow understanding of how 'freedom' is preserved. Freedom does NOT mean anything goes. A 'free' society MUST have restrictions, name one civilization that was 'free' of laws/restrictions. You're hyperbole of comparing a permit to gather antlers, much like a permit to gather wood, to Mao and tyranny goes beyond absurd!


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

PlantMAN said:


> I agree that it will be the best for the wildlife here in Utah. I hope that this will be enforced strongly and we will see more and more wildlife of all kinds in Utah.....
> There is a good book out that is worth reading called The Last Child In The Woods *saving our children from nature deficit disorder[/u*].
> 
> We need to make sportsmen activities more available not less.....




I've read it, and agree. I've adopted from that book a "Nature Deficit Disorder Quiz" that I've tailor fit to my classroom. The quiz is based on how much time the student spends engaged in outdoor activities compared to their parents when the parents were the same age as the student. (Little League sports do not count).
So many young people today are far removed from nature - they've lost their "sense of place."
I then tell the students that have NDD that there is a cure! I give them a prescription for some outdoor activities that will get them on the road to recovery.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

The Naturalist said:


> PlantMAN said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that it will be the best for the wildlife here in Utah. I hope that this will be enforced strongly and we will see more and more wildlife of all kinds in Utah.....
> ...



I wish there were MORE teachers like you. 8)


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## GSPS ROCK (Sep 14, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> GSPS-
> ........
> 
> Turkey hunters aren't directly following big game animals and trailing them looking for drops.
> ...


You're right and most shed hunters aren't doing what you are saying, I thought the whole purpose was not to stress the deer out during that time of year. I would have to say that a shot gun going off would cause a few deer to run and shake in their tracks.

I just think by making more rules, fees etc will only hurt the honest sportman. I know good and well that it has only hurt the ones that are willing to follow the rules. The DWR has no means to control and enforce what is already in place so why keep making more.....

It really will not do any good at all.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

GSPS ROCK said:


> You're right and most shed hunters aren't doing what you are saying, I thought the whole purpose was not to stress the deer out during that time of year. I would have to say that a shot gun going off would cause a few deer to run and shake in their tracks.
> 
> I just think by making more rules, fees etc will only hurt the honest sportman. I know good and well that it has only hurt the ones that are willing to follow the rules. The DWR has no means to control and enforce what is already in place so why keep making more.....
> 
> It really will not do any good at all.


Actually, a shotgun blast while spooking the deer is not as stressful as chasing after the deer hoping to get the antlers to pop off.

It is NOT the 'honest' sportsmen who are the problem, except for their APATHY and lack of curbing the problem themselves. The problem is the pinheads who harass wildlife during the most crucial time of year for deer survival.

I recall MANY archers saying the ethics course required to hunt the WF wouldn't help either, and yet there are fewer 'incidents' since the implementation of it than before. I think the same will be said of this program as well in a few years.

If pinheads would stay out of the hills and/or respect the animals trying to survive, this would not even be on the radar. We have no one to blame but ourselves. :evil:


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

DBcooper-

Well well well, who's the juvenile here? 
You invite me to challenge you out by the flag pole like a grade school kid? LMAO!!
Is there a reason your are directly threatening me?? 
I'm SKEEEEEERED!!!

Your living in some kind of fantasy land coop with a mind that drifts like that!
is that how you spend your time while your sitting in your high chair with your sippee cup?

If you think that pro's comment about my physique was some kind of threat that the governemnt is using these days to enforce laws, you need to climb out of your spaceship dude and get back to earth here! (or better yet fly away!!)

As for tossing insults at my other passion that i take as serious as i do my outdoor activities, my world of competitive bodybuilding has absolutely nothing to do with this forum, or the topic at hand.....leave it that way. :evil: 

I apologize to everyone else reading these childish posts by mr cooper, he has swayed completely off course for his own selfish enjoyment.

If this is how the people on this forum react to rules and change, i will stay off it and go back where men are men. 

Thank you for the ones who stand behind the new changes, we appreciate it more than i can tell you and good luck in your future shed hunting.


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## ACHY (Oct 18, 2007)

> I just think by making more rules, fees etc will only hurt the honest sportman. I know good and well that it has only hurt the ones that are willing to follow the rules. The DWR has no means to control and enforce what is already in place so why keep making more.....
> 
> It really will not do any good at all.


I think it will do some good. There are many people who are contributing to the problem who just don't think about it. The ethics course will require them to think about it, and most will likely respond. Sure, there are others who won't, but those are the minority.

I also suspect that the worst offenders will continue gathering in early spring without completing the ethics course. This requirement would then allow law enforcement to hit them with stiffer penalties, wouldn't it?


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

ACHY-

Yes, you are exactly right on all accounts.

Laws are always broken, nothing is fail proof, but they are there too "help".


Maybe with coops mentality, all laws can be taken away and we can just let the criminals run the world.

Here's an idea!
Lets also do away with the gang task force too Coop, they are just costing us money and yet we still have gang problems that keep getting worse.
Then when they do a drive by and shoot up your home you can stand there and wonder where the cops are! :shock:


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

state wide BAN until april 31st
to easy, it is the only way to make it work.

it is the live deer we need to protect, without them there won't be anysheds to pick up.
and pushing them in 4 feet of snow with 3 dogs and men on snowshoes kills deer and elk.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Rifle666-

Although i like your theory, it simply won't work.
We can't shut the mountains down, that only targets the shed hunters and leaves everyone else to roam freely and create the same problems, even if at a lesser degree.
This is exactly why we did away with the northern region being shut down like it has been, it simply wasn't fair and only punished the shed hunters.

However, the state DOES have the right and the power to shut down the WMA's in the case of a severe winter from ANYONE using the land for any purpose.

Thanks for the open mindedness on the issue though!!


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## DBCooper (Jun 17, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> DBCooper, you need to take a deep breath and LIGHTEN UP! skull krazy is a body builder and is RIPPED. I like giving him a ribbing every now and then. If you are so insecure with who you are, too **** bad. I NEVER expected any ADULTS to take my comments on Doug's arm size serious, WTH?





skull krazy said:


> Well well well, who's the juvenile here?
> You invite me to challenge you out by the flag pole like a grade school kid? LMAO!!
> Is there a reason your are directly threatening me??
> I'm SKEEEEEERED!!!


Pro, are you going to give your buddy the same lecture you gave me?
In my defense, I did use the words flag pole and recess with a Rolling eyes in the same sentence thus giving what I thought was a pretty clear indication that I was not serious and skull took it pretty serious and you didn't give any indication that you were not serious when I took yours serious. :lol:



proutdoors said:


> Again, your 'logic' says we should do away with ALL laws.


Help me out. The only law I have been talking about is this one. I think it is bit of a stretch to conclude that I am an anarchist. I'm not. I'm not even a libertarian - even if I wanted to be I don't think they would take me. 
I do believe in the rule of law. In fact no society has ever flourished without it. Thats why we have a constitution, or whats left of the constitution. But I digress...

If Pro and Skull would answer a few - I think legitimate questions - I will slither back under the rock that I came from and sleep just a bit easier know we have Pro and Skull on the case.

1. Do you know what the Scientific Method is?
2. What evidence (not Pro's gut feeling) do you have that shed hunting is harming wildlife?
3. Since you are doing this for the poor animals and not for selfish reasons you/someone must be donating a great deal of money and time to gather all this info - so you can make sure you are really helping them, right. Who is gathering all this info for you and paying for it? 
4. Do you need any help with evidence gathering?
5. What evidence samples would you/they/me be gathering to make sure these measures are effective so in the years to come you can prove your/Pro's hypothesis was correct?

If you really don't know these types of questions, you in my opinion are a fraud and have no business telling me or anyone else what, when, and where I/we can go in the wilderness. And you definitely don't have a right to extract money or time from us.

If, there are enough suckers in the world to go along with this nonsense I guess we get what we deserve. I for one think laws based on gut feelings like this are illegitimate and should be treated with nothing but contempt!

I look forward to you answers.


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

i have an open mind.
lets hear some other solutions, other than
" it simply won't work"

it works just fine in major winter range in wyoming. i can't access some areas to hunt coyotes.

i'm not saying shut down the mountains, but patrols can ticket shed hunters, we can also police ourselves. 
shut down shed contests until after april. 
there are many things that can be done, but if we wait until the DWR does it, we will be locked out of the range till summer.

i hunt yotes in winter range i trap in winter range, but i "try" not to do it were there is a heavy concentration of game trying to survive. i pulled out of diamond fork WAY early this winter, even though there were many bobcats left to catch, there were just to many deer stuck in the snow,

and yet months before the 1st horn hit the snow there were MANY "hunters" pushing the deer to death.

i called in several of them. i will continue to do so.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

rifle666-
When i said "it simply won't work" i was referring to what has happened in the northern region these past few seasons, it simply hasn't worked. 
It has only punished the shed hunters, yet let all the other people like cross coutry skiers, snowmobilers, coyote hunters, hikers and even animal watchers and photographers go into the hills while the shed hunters were "grounded". 
It just wasn't fair and the sportsman spoke up and voiced their thoughts and opinions, and walla...he we are making changes so they CAN get back to hunting sheds in the northern region, they are just going to be a little more educated on the subject.

How many people even stop to think that the doe's are carrying fawns at that time frame?
How many people stop to think that those animals have been pressured by humans from August through the end of October?
Now toss in the rut in November and then follow that up by old man winter, think they are tired and worn down yet?
Now lets go shed hunting starting in January and run them even more.....

Noone is saying you can't hunt sheds people, all we are doing is trying to do our part by helping the deer herds and trying to do a tiny part in bringing back our herds by educating the people who are in the hills during those extremely vulnerable months.

It's not going to harm anyone to take a short course and it's not going to break anyone's bank account. Lets try to be positive and know we will ALL be doing a small part in "helping" if we choose to hunt sheds in those alotted few months.

Skull


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Where to begin... If "education" where the answer, why do we have spell checker? And after all the "education" we receive and spell checker, why do so many on this sight have such trouble with spelling? "Education", more often than not, gives one a false sense of security.
> I seem to recall a man named Mao sending people who he thought were "idiots" to re-education camps. I'm not impressed!


Some people need to be reminded of their stupidity and a online course would help people realize the affects they have on wildlife when they tear up the hillside. If the online course reduces this stupidity by even 25-50% then that is a HUGE step towards progress.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > DBCooper, you need to take a deep breath and LIGHTEN UP! skull krazy is a body builder and is RIPPED. I like giving him a ribbing every now and then. If you are so insecure with who you are, too **** bad. I NEVER expected any ADULTS to take my comments on Doug's arm size serious, WTH?
> ...


So who invited GGM back? This topic must attract trolls. -BaHa!-


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## rugerdogdog (Nov 18, 2007)

Skull and Pro, don't get me wrong. I am concerned about wildlife and, to a lesser extent, the environment. Yada yada...everybody says that. It is obviously how you conduct yourself in the woods while nobody is looking that proves it, and I have a clear conscience.
My problem with this is simple. It's the possibility of a fee. You say WTF??? Well WTF right back atcha. In the original post, in black and white, it says they are undecided whether or not to charge a fee. You and I both know that more often than not that means...Charge a fee. For you to say WTF when it has been stated they are undecided is typical of your ilk. Got political aspirations MUCH? Sounds like you'd fit right in.
Obviously I have no idea what your financial situation is, nor you mine. So let me speak for a large chunk of society and say that $10 means something to us. Sure $10 a year is practically nothing but $10 for this and $10 for that means everything. It speaks to the larger issue that I believe DB Cooper is trying to address and is being unduly flamed for. Get Gov't the hell out of my wallet, my yard, my house, my child raising...etc. Do we need gov't and laws? Obviously. However, more gun laws will not protect us from criminals with guns as more laws will not protect the wildlife from idiots who would harass them when they are most vulnerable. More laws and more gov't will never be the answer to society's ills. 
Will I take a course? Yes. Will I pay a fee to take that course? No.
If there is no fee, then by all means... Please disregard my last transmission.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Ruger-
As i stated earlier, the RAC tossed out the fee that the committee proposed.
The reason it is still undecided is they want to hear YOUR voice on it.
You appose a fee? go to the RAC mtg and tell them, they are there and willing to listen.

And keep in mind that the money that goes towards this entire shed hunting issue comes directly out of funds that SHOULD be for other projects.
You guys think it doesn't cost money to fight the law breakers in the spring, just like it does in the fall?
And all the brand new signing projects the state will be making to put in the WMA areas to educate people of the habitat destruction, the cost of the online course, the cost to prosecute the violators, the cost for extra law enforcement, yada yada yada???

THAT is why the committee wanted at LEAST a small $5-$10 fee ADDED, so it wasn't SUBTRACTED from other areas.
The fee gets voted down, the money comes from other areas, simple as that.

If there ends up being a fee, which for now says "not likely", those apposed can skip the online course, dig absolutely nothing from your wallets and hunt sheds on may 16th for the rest of the year, no questions asked. 

I'll say it again-
The whole reason for this is NOT to make money or too dictate the citizens, it's simply to HELP alleviate a little of the pressure off our animals during their most vulnerable time of the year, that's it....black & white and straight up.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

DBCooper said:


> If Pro and Skull would answer a few - I think legitimate questions - I will slither back under the rock that I came from and sleep just a bit easier know we have Pro and Skull on the case.
> 
> 1. Do you know what the Scientific Method is?
> 2. What evidence (not Pro's gut feeling) do you have that shed hunting is harming wildlife?
> ...


1)Yes, I know what "Scientific Method" is.
2)The DWR has done MOUNDS have research on this. Although is shouldn't take a study to 'prove' that chasing deer during critical winter times is harmful to the herd, especially to the does carrying fawns.
3)I gave up being an avid shed hunter years ago because of IDIOTS that feel 'entitled' to chase/harass animals in order to pick up a shed, so I have not dog in the fight. skull krazy is passionate about the ability to retain the ability to shed hunt, therefor when the issues like this come up he is willing, ON HIS OWN DIME AND OWN TIME, to show up and look for solutions. And the thanks he gets is personal attacks from a few whiners who are unwilling to SHOW up themselves and be proactive BEFORE it is simply banned altogether.
4)No.
5)This is happening all over the west, it is NOT skulls fault. If you want/need someone to blame, blame the dipwads who harass wildlife and feel 'entitled' to shed hunt. Where is your outrage over a wood permit to gather wood off forest service land? What is the difference?

Skull krazy was asked by ME to sit on this committee because I KNEW he would take a common sense approach and would do what he could to keep the ability to shed hunt for ALL. The thanks he gets from PINHEADS is insults and whining. NICE :evil: I am GLAD skull stepped up and SHOWED UP, it would have been EASY for him to say no thanks when called into action. How many of you blasting skull bother even to go to the RAC's let alone sit on a committee? Take a look in the mirror before throwing this good sportsman under the bus!


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## drifter (Feb 19, 2008)

Bart on the first page of this post I likened it to the state wide archery post. Here are my questions. #1 Why do you think we need to educate shed hunters when they are are not even hunting animals? Answer they have an impact on wildlife. #2 Why do this proposal when there is no biological reason for it. Answer They have an impact on wildlife. The reasoning for this shed hunting proposal is the same exact reasoning we need to have archery hunters stop the state wide archery hunt. Why? Because of their impact on wildlife. 

Drifter

Sorry for the hijack.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

drifter said:


> Bart on the first page of this post I likened it to the state wide archery post. Here are my questions. #1 Why do you think we need to educate shed hunters when they are are not even hunting animals? Answer they have an impact on wildlife. #2 Why do this proposal when there is no biological reason for it. Answer They have an impact on wildlife. The reasoning for this shed hunting proposal is the same exact reasoning we need to have archery hunters stop the state wide archery hunt. Why? Because of their impact on wildlife.
> 
> Drifter
> 
> Sorry for the hijack.


Difference is the "impact" of shed hunters is during crucial winter time when the animals are trying to stay alive and need every ounce of energy to be NOT wasted. During September that is NOT the case, the animals are fat and healthy and have yet to become pregnant.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Now I see why Pro was kissing Skulls butt so bad, he don't want to get beat up! :lol: :wink: I know it isn't easy, but we need better enforcement. I like the idea so far, not a fan of the fee that was thrown around (I know it isn't currently part of the proposal). Other sportsman need to turn in people who are harassing the animals. I still like the idea of letting wildlife be during this crucial time, but what gets me is all of the other people intentionally and unintentionally harassing wildlife like photographers, X-country skiers, hikers, and nature lovers, etc.


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## drifter (Feb 19, 2008)

Bart I am always amazed how some will justify what they are doing is OK and what others are doing is not. So your use of the land is OK and others use is not? I don't care whether it is spring ,winter fall or summer. when we are in the wilds we have an impact. Whether we are holding a bow, rifle or just binos.

drifter


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Jahan-

Lol....i'm actually one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, i don't have an enemy in the world that i am aware of.

Don't discount pro, i've been around the guy, he's a big dude and has a shorter fuse than i do, i aint tangeling with that dude!! -oOo- 

I saw him toss a full grown 4 year old big horn Ram into a horse trailer all by himself!!

.....but he WAS pushing it from behind!! -BaHa!-


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

jahan said:


> Now I see why Pro was kissing Skulls butt so bad, he don't want to get beat up! :lol: :wink:


He is as much bigger than me than I am of you. :shock: **** skippy I stay on his good side, roid rage is REAL! J/K skull. :mrgreen:

Here is the deal, no proposal will be perfect, nor will one make everybody happy. The group of sportsmen who met tried to come up with a reasonable proposal. They were NEVER given the option of doing nothing, like many here do DAILY. :roll: As was stated, if you care one way or the other, SHOW UP at the RAC's and let your voice be heard. Otherwise, you have no grounds to bellyache.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

drifter said:


> Bart I am always amazed how some will justify what they are doing is OK and what others are doing is not. So your use of the land is OK and others use is not? I don't care whether it is spring ,winter fall or summer. when we are in the wilds we have an impact. Whether we are holding a bow, rifle or just binos.
> 
> drifter


If you can't see the difference between the amount of "impact" someone tracking around wildlife during winter and bow hunting in September we have no way to discuss, because you are not dealing with reality. A rifle hunter wearing orange and firing a rifle will disturb a deer MORE than a camouflaged archer launching an arrow. Someone riding an atv up and down ridges pushing deer that are trying to conserve energy to stay alive in February has about as great of an 'impact' on deer as anything short of poaching. Think about it!

skull, **** it! Don't make me.......'transplant' you. :evil:


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > Now I see why Pro was kissing Skulls butt so bad, he don't want to get beat up! :lol: :wink:
> ...


Wow so he is ten feet tall and wieght 600 lbs. :shock: :lol: :wink: I agree there is no perfect proposal. Now if you guys could come up with a proposal that no one is allowed up there, but me I would appreciate it. :lol: :mrgreen:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

jahan said:


> I agree there is no perfect proposal. Now if you guys could come up with a proposal that no one is allowed up there, but me I would appreciate it. :lol: :mrgreen:


We'll get right on that. :wink:


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