# Uinta Valley Railway



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Love it or hate it? I am a 4th generation railroader with deep roots in Carbon and Duchesne Counties so I'm always excited for more railroad. Anything to reduce tanker traffic on Hwy 40 is a plus. Just not sure how I feel about trains rumbling down the Hwy 191 corridor.--------SS


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I'd never heard about the project until today when I saw the story about the USFS approval. I'm pretty neutral on such things. I will say that section of the 191 is stunning and pleasantly quiet in the winter. This will definitely change it's character.

Totally understand why there is strong coalition behind it though.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

This is HUGE for the Basin. Because of the wax content in the Basin's oil, the refineries in SLC can set the price. With this railway, the oil can be shipped to other refineries with the capacity to strip the wax out of the crude. 

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out!


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

The railway is smart but it sucks for property owners that will be affected.


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## jewbacca (Jan 27, 2020)

CPAjeff said:


> This is HUGE for the Basin. Because of the wax content in the Basin's oil, the refineries in SLC can set the price. With this railway, the oil can be shipped to other refineries with the capacity to strip the wax out of the crude.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out!


It will be interesting. I wonder what this will do to Utah fuel prices. Local refiners get a steep discount on waxy crude and enjoy some of the highest margins in the country. I would think squeezing those margins won't do us any favors at the pump.

But it's a big win for the oil producers. Somebody will be getting filthy rich off this.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

How long will it take the commercial enterprises to recoup the $1+ billion investment in the line? I understand it's not going to hurt the companies collaborating but its intriguing to me to compare that cost to the actual profit the valley make from this project.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

This is an idea that is about 50 years late. With pumping slowing down in the basin I can't imagine this project will ever be built. It sure would be nice to get those trucks off the roads, but then, that whole trucking industry based around the basin would collapse with many many jobs lost and families needing to relocate. There would be a big net lost of jobs in that area if they build the railroad.
One thing for sure, if they do build, there will be a few more billionaires with only a few locals picking up some scraps.
The environmental impact both locally and World wide is way too complicate for me to way in on...I just wish we would hurry up and get off our burning fossil fuels addiction.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Amazing they have got this far along with the process. There seems to be a lot of information both pro and con out there. The idea has been around for a long time.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uinta_Basin_Rail


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

BPturkeys said:


> This is an idea that is about 50 years late. With pumping slowing down in the basin I can't imagine this project will ever be built. It sure would be nice to get those trucks off the roads, but then, that whole trucking industry based around the basin would collapse with many many jobs lost and families needing to relocate. There would be a big net lost of jobs in that area if they build the railroad.
> One thing for sure, if they do build, there will be a few more billionaires with only a few locals picking up some scraps.
> The environmental impact both locally and World wide is way too complicate for me to way in on...I just wish we would hurry up and get off our burning fossil fuels addiction.


What?!? The Basin is pumping out more oil now than nearly ever - every company is looking for folks. With the railway, the production is going to INCREASE, and there will still be plenty of need for truck drivers. Remember, the oil still has to get from the ground to the train station.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

One thing I can guarantee, I will have to pull some strings and get a hyrail trip through the new Indian Summit tunnel once it is complete. I wonder what kind of industry the rail could support bringing bulk commodities into the basin? Perhaps a wood-fire co-generation plant? This would also be a cool route for hobby railroaders and motor-car clubs on days when they aren't running trains. They could run a tour train from Scofield to Roosevelt and back.-------SS


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Anyone have a map of the proposed rail line?

-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)




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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)




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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Uinta Basin Railway


The Uinta Basin Railway will provide new infrastructure to economically transport the goods that drive jobs and economic development and community services in the Uinta Basin to enable sustainable communities and enrich quality of life.




uintabasinrailway.com


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> What?!? The Basin is pumping out more oil now than nearly ever - every company is looking for folks. With the railway, the production is going to INCREASE, and there will still be plenty of need for truck drivers. Remember, the oil still has to get from the ground to the train station.


Perhaps you're correct, I only have knowledge of the Blue Bench area. But to say that the next 50 years will see growth in production in the oil industry in the Basin that even slightly resembles that of the last 50 years is pretty short sighted. The Basin area oil industry is mature and actually headed into it's declining years as is all oil industry around the world. The great oil(carbon) burning based industrial revolution is slowly morphing into something better, something greener if I may use that term without arousing the ire of those invested in old carbon burning tech, and will hopefully result in a better world for future generations. 
But after all is said, I stand by my statement that the Uinta Basin railroad is about 50 years too late and will NEVER be built.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

BP, I can respect your opinion as stated but respectfully disagree. There may be a bunch of people blowing smoke up the investors proverbial butt but there have been huge strides made to make this happen.
As for greener I'll just say it would be wishful thinking that my great grand children will live without oil produced products.

As for never being built? Looks like contracts have been signed.








Rio Grande Pacific Corporation Announces Engineering and Construction Teams for Uinta Basin Railway Project


Rio Grande Pacific Corporation Announces Engineering and Construction Teams for Uinta Basin Railway Project



www.businesswire.com


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

They are going to build it. If it's profitable or not is a wait on see.

Rail still remains to be most efficient way to move goods over any distance especially places that lack quality interstate road systems.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

There is a lot of opposition to this RR here in Colorado amongst the tree huger crowd. All they can see is a train derailment and liquid oil spreading all across the ground along with into the Colorado River where the tracks will follow until it hits the Continental Divide. They have no idea that this oil is such a heavy paraffin base that it won't flow very far if there is a leak or derailment of one of the trains. 

As for the most efficient way to haul things, there are no other ways to transport the amount of tonnage as the railroads do for the cost that they do it for. It doesn't matter if there is a interstate freeway or other fantastic roads for the truckers to drive on, they just can't transport that amount of merchandise as cheap. But there will always be a need for a truck to move the products from rail terminals to their final destination.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Critter said:


> There is a lot of opposition to this RR here in Colorado amongst the tree huger crowd. All they can see is a train derailment and liquid oil spreading all across the ground along with into the Colorado River where the tracks will follow until it hits the Continental Divide. They have no idea that this oil is such a heavy paraffin base that it won't flow very far if there is a leak or derailment of one of the trains.
> 
> As for the most efficient way to haul things, there are no other ways to transport the amount of tonnage as the railroads do for the cost that they do it for. It doesn't matter if there is a interstate freeway or other fantastic roads for the truckers to drive on, they just can't transport that amount of merchandise as cheap. But there will always be a need for a truck to move the products from rail terminals to their final destination.


This rail line isn't running into Colorado. There is already a track that runs into Craig (actually was discussed taking it to vernal that way) and frankly that's not going any where until it's unprofitable to operate over. 


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

weaversamuel76 said:


> This rail line isn't running into Colorado. There is already a track that runs into Craig (actually was discussed taking it to vernal that way) and frankly that's not going any where until it's unprofitable to operate over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


Correct but the crude that they will be hauling will be coming through Colorado and that is where the tree huggers are fighting against it. 









Utah rail line could bring 10 crude oil trains through Denver daily, drawing concern across Colorado


A railroad project out of Utah that would bring up to 10, two-mile-long oil trains through Denver daily has federal approval but no clear picture of the environmental damage it might cause, dozens …




www.denverpost.com


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## Blacdog (Nov 24, 2019)

BPturkeys said:


> Perhaps you're correct, I only have knowledge of the Blue Bench area. But to say that the next 50 years will see growth in production in the oil industry in the Basin that even slightly resembles that of the last 50 years is pretty short sighted. The Basin area oil industry is mature and actually headed into it's declining years as is all oil industry around the world. The great oil(carbon) burning based industrial revolution is slowly morphing into something better, something greener if I may use that term without arousing the ire of those invested in old carbon burning tech, and will hopefully result in a better world for future generations.
> But after all is said, I stand by my statement that the Uinta Basin railroad is about 50 years too late and will NEVER be built.


The Uintah Basin has always been hobbled by transportation issues. The area has a Mecca of natural resources. I see opportunities for other things as well as oil. Either of those counties would be a perfect place for a pipe resin factory. No natural disasters to cause shut downs like in the gulf coast. Also could help with moving gypsum or any other material or product. The area has a good work force and this could spur other industries other than just oil.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> One thing I can guarantee, I will have to pull some strings and get a hyrail trip through the new Indian Summit tunnel once it is complete.


Can you pick up hitch-hikers before the entrance of the tunnel? Asking for a friend....


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

One of the most important impacts the railway could have on the Basin is a more stable economy. Booms and busts are a way of life out here, well pretty much anywhere in oil country, but it'll be interesting to see what other goods/services find their way out here. I've heard some rumblings about different things, but nothing too concrete yet.

For all those thinking about moving to the Basin, don't. It's terrible - dust and dinosaurs, nothing to see here, move somewhere else!!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

CPAjeff said:


> For all those thinking about moving to the Basin, don't. It's terrible - dust and dinosaurs, nothing to see here, move somewhere else!!


I worked out there for 3 winters back in the 70's. While the pay was great I didn't leave anything out there that I need to go back for.


Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## NH Hunter (Feb 4, 2008)

weaversamuel76 said:


> They are going to build it. If it's profitable or not is a wait on see.
> 
> Rail still remains to be most efficient way to move goods over any distance especially places that lack quality interstate road systems.


This is a true statement, as long as you don't care when it arrives. Rail delivery is pretty unpredictable unless it's a unit train. We use bulk rail tanker transport for kaolin clay, TiO2 and latex. Getting deliveries as scheduled is a challenge. We have to have contingency plans for trucking if the delivery doesn't show up when scheduled. There is a big shortage of truck drivers out there now. Half the ones on the road can't drive for s**t. I was speaking to a driver trainer for Praxair yesterday and he says it amazing how little experience a lot of the drivers have. We have well over a hundred drivers pick up and deliver to the mill where I work. Repairs for fencing, utility poles and trailer damage for poor driving is staggering. We had a driver in the other day that couldn't back into the dock. He had to get out and have another driver do it for him. Sad. Makes you think twice about tooling down the interstate with all those big rigs. How many of them just got out of truck driver school and have very little experience?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Critter said:


> I worked out there for 3 winters back in the 70's. While the pay was great I didn't leave anything out there that I need to go back for.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


BOOMER!!! 

Things have changed a little over here in hooterville since the '70s. At least I think so, I wasn't around in the '70s.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

CPAjeff said:


> BOOMER!!!
> 
> Things have changed a little over here in hooterville since the '70s. At least I think so, I wasn't around in the '70s.


I've driven through there a few times, most of the time it was in the dark heading to my brother in laws home in Orem after hunting out in the Book Cliffs but 3 years ago I came home that way. I have no idea if I could even find my way around there anymore it has changed so much. Roosevelt used to start at the cemetery when you were heading east and end at the high school. Vernal is totally different. 

But then what do you expect after 50 years?


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

A lot of proponents for the rail are claiming how big of an economic boom and benefit it will be for the Basin. To that, I'd say look at the booming metropolis of Green River, Wyoming. It has skyscrapers everywhere; 5 or 6 big box stores; real estate is impossible to afford or come by; and there are so many people and jobs, it's just unreal! LOL! 

Green River has a rail and an interstate. It's still a small town...


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I worked in Vernal a lot. Always heard it is the "biggest town in America without a railroad"

I remember when they built the Bonanza Generating Station south of Vernal. They built a railroad to the plant from the coal mine. Didn't seem too complicated...at the time.

For years phosphate was trucked out of the Vernal mine to a railhead over by Park City somewhere. It was expensive and the trucks were overweight to a point they were ruining US 40. A number of lawsuits shut down the phosphate trucking. In the mid-80s Chevron bought the mine and built a phosphate slurry pipeline from Vernal to the railroad east of Rock Springs Wyoming and built a new phosphate processing plant.

The Simplot Phosphate plant in Rock Springs is a huge facility, has a large work force, generates a lot of tax-based and support industry revenue for Sweetwater County. Too bad, if there was a railroad the plant would have been in Vernal.

See: Phosphate Rock in Utah


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

tuffluckdriller said:


> A lot of proponents for the rail are claiming how big of an economic boom and benefit it will be for the Basin. To that, I'd say look at the booming metropolis of Green River, Wyoming. It has skyscrapers everywhere; 5 or 6 big box stores; real estate is impossible to afford or come by; and there are so many people and jobs, it's just unreal! LOL!
> 
> Green River has a rail and an interstate. It's still a small town...


I don’t think anyone is expecting and certainly not wanting skyscrapers and big box stores on every corner in Vernal.

Nobody has said that would be the case in this thread either. But that was a cool story, nonetheless.


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