# Bear Attack II



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Since we have had such a good time with the first thread here is another one that happened down in New Mexico.

This guy came back alive.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/...ent=2018-09-15&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Would he have come back alive had he not fired his weapon? Posting another story doesn't prove your point. You can't nitpick one example or two and then claim to have the evidence you need. I have posted this stuff in the other thread, but reviews of lots and lots of bear-human conflicts statistically show that using a gun will not likely change the outcome. You don't know, for example, what the outcome would have been in your linked story had he not used the gun. You only know what happened after he did. There is a chance that he would not have been as seriously injured had he not fired his weapon...but, we will never know.

"When it comes to self defense against grizzly bears, the answer is not as obvious as it may seem. In fact, experienced hunters are surprised to find that despite the use of firearms against a charging bear, they were attacked and badly hurt. Evidence of human-bear encounters even suggests that shooting a bear can escalate the seriousness of an attack, while encounters where firearms are not used are less likely to result in injury or death of the human or the bear."

"Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality --based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used."

Remember, I also posted this a couple of times before too:
"Smith and his colleagues analyzed 269 incidents of bear-human conflicts in Alaska for the study, appearing in the forthcoming issue of the Journal of Wildlife Management. Those incidents involved 444 people and 357 bears, 300 of which were brown bears.

The researchers found no statistical difference in the outcome (no injury, injury or fatality) when they compared those who used their gun in an aggressive encounter (229 instances) to those who had firearms but did not use them (40 instances).

In a 2008 study, Smith found that bear spray effectively halted aggressive bear encounters in 92 percent of the cases."

Interestingly, though, ""Out of 176 incidents, there were only three injuries, just scratches," Smith said of his pepper spray findings. And no bears died."


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyoming2utah said:


> Would he have come back alive had he not fired his weapon? Posting another story doesn't prove your point. You can't nitpick one example or two and then claim to have the evidence you need. I have posted this stuff in the other thread, but reviews of lots and lots of bear-human conflicts statistically show that using a gun will not likely change the outcome. You don't know, for example, what the outcome would have been in your linked story had he not used the gun. You only know what happened after he did. There is a chance that he would not have been as seriously injured had he not fired his weapon...but, we will never know.


I posted this story just for your enjoyment not to prove a single thing, just another unfortunate incident that happened to a person.

There is no reason for you to go on the defense.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Ok....I'll post more reading for enjoyment then:
https://mountainjournal.org/to-live-and-die-in-grizzly-country


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

How about some personal accounts:
https://www.adn.com/uncategorized/article/guns-dont-prevent-alaska-bear-attacks/2011/07/27/?page=0,0


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

That was a vivid and well-written account of the attack. I can't even imagine....


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

My close friend's family owns a lodge in West Yellowstone. There is a Sow and two cubs that hang around, and two different Boars. 

They aren't afraid of people.. and are very comfortable. I don't know stats, but it seems animals that aren't hunted aren't cautious. 

It's probably not relevant to these stories, but... I feel like nothing will be done until someone is hurt. Nothing is being done to the grizzly pop until it'll be a 20/20 hindsight.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I know on the Manti the past few years, even last year we always seems to see bears. My brother had one charge at him in the morning darkness. He had his gun in his back pack holster and had no way of shooting at it. He was lucky, a false charge the bear stopped 5 yards from him and turned and ran away. We have also had bears eat off of our elk that we have left over night to get the next day. Fun stuff for sure


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

A couple quotes from this link are really good:https://www.adn.com/uncategorized/article/guns-dont-prevent-alaska-bear-attacks/2011/07/27/?page=0,0

"All of which brings us back to the arm-chair quarterbacking about a grizzly that Saturday attacked a group of seven students from the National Outdoor Leadership school on a month-long backpacking trip in the Talkeetna Mountains.
They didn't have a gun.
And it is a good thing.
Why? Because none of them was likely trained to use one in this sort of life-and-death scenario. Because the downside of guns, particularly in the hands of the inexperienced, is an accidental shooting; something that happens too often in Alaska."

And this one:

"Bear attacks happen so fast that for a gun to be of any use, you better have it in your hand. A handgun carried in a holster isn't going to help. Neither is a shotgun or rifle slung over your shoulder or maybe even tucked up under the crook of your arm.
No, for a gun to matter, you better be carrying it in a combat-ready position, and you better be ready for combat."


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Wait, so.... a gun SAVED his life?.... go figure. 😂


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

As the bear was chewing on his leg...


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Critter said:


> As the bear was chewing on his leg...


Man, just when I thought these quotes couldn't possibly get any better you go ahead and hit me with this gem. &#128076;&#127995;


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Good grief. Do I need to lock both of these threads?


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Bax* said:


> Good grief. Do I need to lock both of these threads?


Well, considering you didn't lock down the BYU thread I'd say no, we're good here!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Yup, I definitely need to bring more gun. That line from jaws comes to mind. "your going to need a bigger boat".


As an aside, cinnamon bears look freaking huge. I saw one once, and for a split second I wondered if it was a grizzly. Then sanity took over and I realized that was impossible, and not all black bears are black.


The debate between pepper spray and a firearm? From what I've seen, some Alaskans (i like to think of them as more in the know), while in bear country carry BOTH. Pepper spray, IN your offhand, not in your pack, not on your belt, but in your hand - and a large caliber revolver ready to go in a chest holster.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Ray said:


> Wait, so.... a gun SAVED his life?.... go figure. &#128514;


Funny....when I read that story, I read about a guy who was being charged by a bear and who shot and wounded it pissing it off a little more than it already was.

Had that guy not shot and wounded the bear, chances are it would have stopped in its false charge and left him alone.

Sounds to me like it was one of these scenarios: ""When it comes to self defense against grizzly bears, the answer is not as obvious as it may seem. In fact, experienced hunters are surprised to find that despite the use of firearms against a charging bear, they were attacked and badly hurt. Evidence of human-bear encounters even suggests that shooting a bear can escalate the seriousness of an attack..."

But, that's just it...we will never know.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

My uncles both carry G20's up there. I wonder why more people don't. 15 rounds of 10mm is pretty potent.

I recently read an article that stated the 357sig has better penetration, not sure if it's true or not; but I wonder if you'll start seeing those around more.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> Funny....when I read that story, I read about a guy who was being charged by a bear and who shot and wounded it pissing it off a little more than it already was.
> 
> Had that guy not shot and wounded the bear, chances are it would have stopped in its false charge and left him alone.
> 
> ...


"Science" also says that CC doesn't help you... so we should stop doing that too.

I am sure each of these guys is glad they had a gun:
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5RkMcECaM

You never know - it's not like being charged by a grizzly is a science many have locked down. The dude from the revenant is use to it...


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Bax* said:


> Good grief. Do I need to lock both of these threads?


Respectfully, locking down threads makes the forum less interesting and fun. Conflict inspires thought, and is entertaining most of the time. kum bah yah hand holding forums with over eager moderators are boring. Moderation of moderation in all things good sir ;-) also don't ban me :grin:


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Spot on random elk. There's no way if knowing if it was a bluff, that's just pure speculation, not science.

Airborne, I thought I had a good comeback! Salute!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Airborne said:


> Respectfully, locking down threads makes the forum less interesting and fun. Conflict inspires thought, and is entertaining most of the time. kum bah yah hand holding forums with over eager moderators are boring. Moderation of moderation in all things good sir ;-) also don't ban me :grin:


Agreed. We rarely lock threads anymore and go easier than we used to. There have just been some pretty petty comments made on these two bear threads.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Airborne said:


> Respectfully, locking down threads makes the forum less interesting and fun. Conflict inspires thought, and is entertaining most of the time. kum bah yah hand holding forums with over eager moderators are boring. Moderation of moderation in all things good sir ;-) also don't ban me :grin:


Geese Airborne whats the fun in that? Honestly we overlook a lot of snarky things here now, but you can only tolerate it for soooo long, you read the same thread every day for so long that they get really smelly (can think of one going on right now that has been a year in the making-o,-.) I think that we as moderators do a good job here, and we let alot go by.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5RrmZDxkT

I'll be packing... not spray though.

⫸<{{{{{⦅°>


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Fishrmn said:


> https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5RrmZDxkT
> 
> I'll be packing... not spray though.
> 
> ⫸<{{{{{⦅°>


I agree 1,000% but you just opened Pandora's box. &#128563;&#128514;


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...ls-attacking-grizzly-on-blackfeet-reservation


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