# WOLVES OFFICIALLY SPOTTED IN UTAH



## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2892224

It official they are here. o-||


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## bucksandducks (Sep 11, 2007)

Why are they trying to keep them here? They need to get them out of here, but lets just feed them road kill and help them survive. NOT GOOD!!


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

I just saw the story on the news as well. I'm going to pull up a lawn chair and get a bucket of chicken. This should be a good show. o-||


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## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

Come on now, there is REGULATED/CONTROLLED room for all of us... if we put our heads together.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

It's not official. The report even says there is no hard proof. It says there is enough evidence to suggest they crossed into Utah, that's all. It says nothing about there being an established pack taking residence in Utah. When the DWR went to find them, guess what? They couldn't find them. Some tracks is all they found. And they couldn't even get pictures of the tracks.

They have no video, pictures or other hard evidence. just another guy claiming to have seen them. Could it be another URW...unidentified roaming wolf?

The DWR officials say they heard a howl in the distance, but assume the wolves have left the area or they would have found them by now. 

So it's official, someone saw wolves in Utah, but it's not official they are here to stay.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

The IRW is here . For better or worse they are here.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

So are tons of twenty inch trout in the Middle Provo. Every fly fisherman catches six or eight on each outing, but when the DWR does the electroshock survey, they are mysteriously gone. Legends in their own minds!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> So are tons of twenty inch trout in the Middle Provo. Every fly fisherman catches six or eight on each outing, but when the DWR does the electroshock survey, they are mysteriously gone. Legends in their own minds!


Are you saying you don't believe there are wolves in Utah? If so, are you being serious?


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Those 20" trout are on the Blacksmith----- geeeezzzzzzz. And don't worry about catching any of them- because I did and I SSS'd them.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> HighNDry said:
> 
> 
> > So are tons of twenty inch trout in the Middle Provo. Every fly fisherman catches six or eight on each outing, but when the DWR does the electroshock survey, they are mysteriously gone. Legends in their own minds!
> ...


I'm being serious when I say there is no hard evidence that they are here, and no one has made it official like the first poster said. Do I believe they are here as a formed pack taking up residence, no. Do I believe thay have traveled through Utah, yes. One was even caught in the Morgan area. Was it in a pack of bloodthirsty killers, taking down elk, deer, sheep, cattle and women and children? Not yet. I can't figure out why everyone's thermals are all twisted up. If they come in and start making an impact on wildlife, we take them out like we did in the past. After all we have guns, and ammo...right?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> I can't figure out why everyone's thermals are all twisted up. If they come in and start making an impact on wildlife, we take them out like we did in the past. After all we have guns, and ammo...right?


First, the thermals are put away on the first day of spring. :wink:

Second, how has the 'wolf management' being working in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho? I don't see it being much better in Utah. All the wolf lovers will be clamoring for the wolves to be allowed to expand/grow in numbers. Their end goal is to do away with hunting by humans, so I have no reason to believe they will be concerned at all about elk/deer populations. They would just say it shows hunting by man is unwarranted now that wolves are here. The 'wolf agenda' is not in compliance with the hunter agenda, that is clear.

Third, I have no idea how many wolves are in Utah, but I have no doubt they are here more than the DWR publicly admits. I have had a few good chats with DWR employees who admitted, off the record, that wolves are here in higher numbers than most people in Utah care to know about. These people had no reason to fib to me, so I tend to believe the 'off the record' comments over the PR comments.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Why is everything off the record with the DWR? Is it because if the state "officially" recognizes the wolves are here, the Feds get involved and start a management agenda, telling the local officials what they can and can't do? 

I know for a fact, I heard a wolf howl near Kemmerer Wyoming while hunting coyotes. Guess what? The last few years hunting coyotes has been horrible in that area. We talked to a F&G person and he told us it was because the F&G in Wyo. was allowed to bring back poison to control them. He said with the air hunting by helicoter and trapping and poison, they have brought the numbers way down. Well, I know it's not an elk or deer but I enjoy coyote hunting. It's the only hunting I do anymore. Should I be all twisted up that they are killing all the coyotes so I can't have my fun? 

Where do we draw the line on who's passion gets the most play? Do you believe that someone who loves the outdoors and is passionate about seeing wolves in their native lands, should not have that opportunity?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> Where do we draw the line on who's passion gets the most play? Do you believe that someone who loves the outdoors and is passionate about seeing wolves in their native lands, should not have that opportunity?


Wolves KILL coyotes at every opportunity, so you should be against wolves being pushed on you as well as me. The wolves they have released in neighboring states are NOT native, nor is Utah part of this wolf's native land. I would be against the re-introduction of dinos that eat people as well, even though this is their 'native' land. That is a silly argument.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

So are you saying that dinosaurs really existed?


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Clear back in 2001, I would go quite frequently up to Tony Grove up Logan Canyon, there was papers posted on the bathrooms saying there have been some wolf tracks found and to report to the DWR if you seen anymore tracks or wolfs. That was seven years ago and there were reports of tracks back then. I have no doubt there are wolves in Utah, I just don't think there are necessarily in packs yet. I believe the reason they haven't spread more yet is I believe people are killing them and not telling anyone. There are enough people out there that hate them that I think that is what is controlling their population here right now.


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> ........nor is Utah part of this wolf's native land. I would be against the re-introduction of dinos that eat people as well, even though this is their 'native' land. That is a silly argument.


The last native wolf to Utah was killed in the 1930's. A few years ago I sat in on the round tables sponsored by the DWR when they were developing Utah's policy for wolves. I sat at a table with ranchers from the Randolph area, and from Wyo. They definitely had some legitimate concerns. I believe Utah's policy will address those issues.

There may be a few wolf advocates that are against hunting, but from my experience, alot of them are also hunters themselves.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

The Naturalist said:


> *The last native wolf to Utah was killed in the 1930's*. A few years ago I sat in on the round tables sponsored by the DWR when they were developing Utah's policy for wolves. I sat at a table with ranchers from the Randolph area, and from Wyo. They definitely had some legitimate concerns. I believe Utah's policy will address those issues.
> 
> There may be a few wolf advocates that are against hunting, but from my experience, *alot of them are also hunters themselves.*


The wolves that are migrating in from the north are NOT the same wolf that was killed in the 1930's.

I have serious doubts, based on comments and stances of the "Defenders of Wildlife", as to them being "hunters themselves. If they are supposed hunters, why are they looking for every possible legal loophole to keep/prolong wolves from being hunted? Meanwhile elk herds are being decimated, if they are "hunters themselves", they are piss-poor at showing it.


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> The Naturalist said:
> 
> 
> > *The last native wolf to Utah was killed in the 1930's*. A few years ago I sat in on the round tables sponsored by the DWR when they were developing Utah's policy for wolves. I sat at a table with ranchers from the Randolph area, and from Wyo. They definitely had some legitimate concerns. I believe Utah's policy will address those issues.
> ...


Sorry if I misrread your post - I took it that you thought Utah was not in the native range of wolves.
BTW - Utah's Bison, Moose, Bighorn Sheep, Mtn Goat, and most Elk aren't the original native animals, but I'm glad there here.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

I have been hearing this more and more lately. Can anyone link me a study or anything legit that says these are not the same type of wolf that used to roam the western U.S.? Sounds like pure propaganda to me...


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

http://www.fws.gov/mountain%2Dprairie/s ... mals/wolf/

Read in here- this is what they are


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

ScottyP said:


> I have been hearing this more and more lately. Can anyone link me a study or anything legit that says these are not the same type of wolf that used to roam the western U.S.? Sounds like pure propaganda to me...


Hey Scotty - try this one http://www.gray-wolf.net/taxonomyna.htm 
Wolf classification is difficult - The subspecies for the southern rockies (Utah) was Canis lupus youngi. The subspecies for the northern rockies (which includes Yellowstone into parts of southern Canada) is Canis lupus irremotus. Both subspecies are considered to be medium sized.
Then you can cross reference this to http://www.greateryellowstonescience.or ... -smith.pdf
This is a great article by Dr. Doug Smith, I've personally met and talked with him. Here you will read that the wolves targeted for yellowstone came from Alberta and British Columbia because of similar prey and terrain to that found in yellowstone. 
Hope that helps.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/relea ... ewsID=4319


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