# Deer hunting with an AR?



## #1DEER 1-I

Is it legal to hunt big game in utah? And if so how many bullets can be chambered? I've been thinking of buying one?


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## Huge29

I think that you have a clip with a capacity under 365. I think the rule is based on the number of days in the year, so on leap year you can go up to 366. Ok, Just kidding, I am fairly certain that there are no restrictions pertaining to your question. Or by asking how many bullets can be chambered, are you referring to a Gatling gun?  All of the AR's I have ever seen only have one chamber.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Sorry I meant in the clip


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## Fowlmouth

I thought it was no more than 5 shells, but I can't find anywhere in the guidebook that states that. I'm curious too.


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## Huge29

Page 30


> Prohibited weapons
> Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-7
> You may only use firearms and archery tackle that are expressly permitted in this guide. You may not hunt big game with a firearm that's capable of being fired fully automatic, or with any light-enhancement device or aiming device that casts a visible beam of light. Laser range-finding devices are exempt from this restriction.


I am fairly certain that this is about the only other restriction as long as we are talking about centerfire, lots of muzzleloader restrictions 


> Rifles and shotguns
> Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-8
> You may use a rifle or shotgun to take big game, but your firearm and ammunition must meet the following requirements:
> • Your rifle must fire centerfire cartridges and expanding bullets.
> • Your shotgun must be 20 gauge or larger, and you may use only slug ammunition or buckshot that's 00 or larger in size.


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## reb8600

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Sorry I meant in the clip


They dont hold a clip. It is called a magazine.


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## royta

reb8600 said:


> They dont hold a clip. It is called a magazine.


Yep

http://www.minutemanreview.com/2008/09/clip-vs-magazine-lesson-in-firearm.html?m=1


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## royta




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## KineKilla

I'd do it.

In fact I just might in the near future. I'll have to re-sight it in using heavier grain bullets but it should do the job no problem. I have seen the limitations for elk hunting and allowed guns in Utah for that, it is all based on retained energy (ft.lbs.) So, if you look into it a bit further you'll probably find that there are some requirements regarding energy but not caliber.


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## DallanC

Well he just said AR, not AR15... so lets go with a nice AR10. Now calibers start at .243 and go all the way up past .338 to .450 Marlin. I dont think anyone here would argue a .243 wont kill a deer... and especially a .338.

So Deer hunting with a AR? YEP! And Elk, Moose, Bison... Brown Bear... just about anything else as well. 

-DallanC


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## bsnowtaylor

The only restrictions on ft/lbs of energy apply to hunting big game with a handgun. The only restrictions to hunting big game with a rifle are that it be a centerfire cartrige with expanding bullets. there is no limit to caliber, ft/lbs of energy, or magazine capacity. 

Though, common sence should prevail. You could legally shoot an elk with a .556 from an AR15... it may even kill the elk, its just probably not the best Idea. But for deer, with the right bullet, and a well placed shot, there should be no question.


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## #1DEER 1-I

As for accuracy how are AR's compared to normal rifles ?


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## Mr Muleskinner

the AR is a normal rifle.


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## royta

#1DEER 1-I said:


> As for accuracy how are AR's compared to normal rifles ?





Mr Muleskinner said:


> the AR is a normal rifle.


Depends on chamber and barrel. A DPMS? Probably not very. A Noveske w/ a stainless match barrel? Extremely.


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## Nambaster

#1DEER 1-I said:


> As for accuracy how are AR's compared to normal rifles ?


I think when it comes to AR's you tend to get a lot more stories compared to other rifles. I once had a guy claim that he could shoot MOA at 300 yards using open sights with an AR. Then he went on to boast that he could hit silhouettes at a 1000 yards. One day while out hunting ground squirrels with a buddy we came across him with an open sight AR.

We had him on some 300 yard ground squirrels standing at the mount of a hole.. He fired and they all ducked down. Immediately he boasted about a direct hit but his rounds were the non expanding kind. After locating slightly closer ground squirrels my buddies 22-250 sent the ground squirrels in the air. Then my .204 Ruger found a mount about 150 yards way and they immediately became air borne. One remaining ground squirrel sat on the same mound and we requested he follow up. After he shot we could not even see a cloud of dust or anything in any vicinity of the squirrel. My buddy and I started laughing.

I know that this is a long winded story but after that my buddy took his 2004 Toyota Tacoma (which was brand new at the time) and parked it 1000 yards out and told the guy to empty a magazine on it...I don't remember how many shots he fired but I was sweating bullets for my buddy. Until on the final 3 shots I noticed little plumes of dust about 500 yards out and severely to the right... My buddy must have noticed the plume when he shot at the ground squirrel.

Speaking negatively of Semi Auto rifles has ruined poor Jim Zumbos career but I kind of agree with him. When I am at the shooting range and you got these guys in their tactical gear shooting rounds at 25 yards it is obvious they are not doing it for the purpose of hunting. Why not just hunt with a hunting rifle instead of a military weapon? If we have a Zombie CWD break out and deer and elk come after us I could be eating my own words but until that day I prefer bolt action or single shot rifles with rounds designed for big game.


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## ram2h2o

Ditto to what DallenC said. An AR in a heavier caliber is fine for deer. A .223 round is a bit light and small. Will kill a Deer if you hit it accurately in the head. Stick with an AR with something like a .308 will kill Deer for sure.


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## reb8600

Nambaster said:


> Why not just hunt with a hunting rifle instead of a military weapon? If we have a Zombie CWD break out and deer and elk come after us I could be eating my own words but until that day I prefer bolt action or single shot rifles with rounds designed for big game.


First off the AR you go buy in the store here is not a military weapon. Never has been. It is no different than any other semi auto weapon. In fact the main difference between it and a bolt gun is that it loads the next round for you. Most AR's you buy are extremely accurate and capable of shooting MOA. The AR is actually quite popular as a hunting rifle. As for rounds designed for big game, you can get them for an AR also. The AR shoots the same kind of rounds as your bolt gun.


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## Nambaster

reb8600 said:


> First off the AR you go buy in the store here is not a military weapon. Never has been. It is no different than any other semi auto weapon. In fact the main difference between it and a bolt gun is that it loads the next round for you. Most AR's you buy are extremely accurate and capable of shooting MOA. The AR is actually quite popular as a hunting rifle. As for rounds designed for big game, you can get them for an AR also. The AR shoots the same kind of rounds as your bolt gun.


The design of an AR is a multi round design for combat use. You said so yourself "it is no different than any other semi auto weapon" The rifles that I own are firearms intended for hunting purposes. I will not argue about the accuracy of the AR's as they are and can be more accurate than many of my own rifles.

I just wish that I could find some rounds for my wifes .308 or .243 those weapons reduce the availability of ammunition for my firearms.

On another note AR-15's would make an amazing weapon to combat Coyotes...


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## royta

reb8600 said:


> First off the AR you go buy in the store here is not a military weapon. Never has been. It is no different than any other semi auto weapon. In fact the main difference between it and a bolt gun is that it loads the next round for you. Most AR's you buy are extremely accurate and capable of shooting MOA. The AR is actually quite popular as a hunting rifle. As for rounds designed for big game, you can get them for an AR also. The AR shoots the same kind of rounds as your bolt gun.





Nambaster said:


> The design of an AR is a multi round design for combat use. You said so yourself "it is no different than any other semi auto weapon" The rifles that I own are firearms intended for hunting purposes. I will not argue about the accuracy of the AR's as they are and can be more accurate than many of my own rifles.
> 
> I just wish that I could find some rounds for my wifes .308 or .243 those weapons reduce the availability of ammunition for my firearms.
> 
> On another note AR-15's would make an amazing weapon to combat Coyotes...


First of all, an AR platform rifle is no more a weapon than my son's baseball bat. Quit calling a firearm a weapon. A firearm is a firearm.

Nambaster, your logic is a little off kilter. A bolt rifle is designed for combat use too, so quit painting a dark picture about AR's.

Every firearm owner in America had better be accepting of ALL firearms.


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## Huge29

I own Remington's version of teh AR, R15. It is not nearly as accurate as my bolt action at half of the cost, but my kids really enjoy shooting it, the collapsible stock makes it nice for the smaller kids.


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## klbzdad

My AR is just like my brother's M4. So, I asked him if an AR was good for hunting deer and elk and he said, "I hunted humans. And humans are more elusive than deer or elk in that the sum biatches will shoot back and are hunting you too." I like mine especially for coyote hunting because of the extremely low recoil and return is fast with or without a scope. It doesn't hurt that if I should miss a coyote, I have another 29 chances to make it right.


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## Nambaster

royta said:


> First of all, an AR platform rifle is no more a weapon than my son's baseball bat. Quit calling a firearm a weapon. A firearm is a firearm.
> 
> Nambaster, your logic is a little off kilter. A bolt rifle is designed for combat use too, so quit painting a dark picture about AR's.
> 
> Every firearm owner in America had better be accepting of ALL firearms.


My argument is not that the AR's a bad gun. They are great guns and they serve a great purpose. Situationally can you describe a big-game hunting senario where you would need a 20 round magazine? If the goal is discussing the AR for deer hunting my position that I am going to hold is that there are more optimal platforms for pursuing wild ungulates which require limited tag allocations. This includes effectiveness as well. I will continue to state that if an AR is the only gun that you have and it is the difference between hunting and not hunting the answer is always HUNTING!

As stated the .223 is not an optimal round for hunting. The .243, .308, and other adequate rounds will do great for hunting, but the point is....the deer is not going to care if it was pounded by a gun with a flash surpressor or vented barrel designed for cooling after several rounds are fired. In a big game forum I continue to stand my ground and insist that if Big-game hunting is your ultimate goal an AR platform is not your ultimate firearm.

Situationally a prairie dog town and an AR-15 would be heavenly. Multiple coyotes coming into a call would also be very effective with an AR-15. and the other AR's shooting larger calibers can kill deer effectively, but I am confused as to why take the tactical AR route over a Remmington Model 700 or a Ruger M77?

Royta I must have hit a soft spot with you... I am not after your AR's and I support AR ownership. Until there is a release of sufficient tags that come in multiples of 10-15 per person I do not see a purpose for them in Big-game hunting. I am not going to stop the guy who hunts elk with a .50 BMG but I will insist that it does not make sense to me.

Now I know how Jim Zumbo felt.


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## reb8600

Nambaster said:


> The design of an AR is a multi round design for combat use. You said so yourself "it is no different than any other semi auto weapon" but the point is....the deer is not going to care if it was pounded by a gun with a flash surpressor or vented barrel designed for cooling after several rounds are fired.


So you are telling me that this was designed for combat?? http://http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228 It functions just like a 10/22 or 1187 shotgun. There are a lot of other rifles in semi auto also that were never used in combat and were designed specifically for hunting, Browning made a lot of them. They all do the same thing, they automatically load the next round for you. You pull the trigger and it fires one bullet. You let off the trigger and pull it to fire again. As someone else stated, the bolt action is also used in combat so why are you using it to hunt with? So was the muzzle loader and bow. There are many bolt action rifles with muzzle brake on them also. Guess we could say that is also a feature designed for the military. Why would you need that on a hunting rifle?



Nambaster said:


> My argument is not that the AR's a bad gun. They are great guns and they serve a great purpose. Situationally can you describe a big-game hunting senario where you would need a 20 round magazine?


Nobody asked or said anything about hunting with a 20 round magazine did they? You can buy 5 round mags also. The AR is a comfortable weapon to hold and shoot. I prefer them over a bolt action. I use a bolt action my self for big game and use my AR for coyotes. The fact I dont use the AR to hunt big game does not mean I am against it. Why do you even need more than one round then? The bolt actions hold 3-5 rounds. Why dont we all just use a single shot rifle.



Nambaster said:


> but I am confused as to why take the tactical AR route over a Remmington Model 700 or a Ruger M77?


Both these companies are now offer bolt action rifles that have removeable magazines. Are you against that also, after all why would you need to fire more than one round for big game hunting?



Nambaster said:


> The rifles that I own are firearms intended for hunting purposes.
> 
> I just wish that I could find some rounds for my wifes .308 or .243 those weapons reduce the availability of ammunition for my firearms.


So you are saying that the AR's or any semi auto rifle being sold in Cabelas, Sportsmans and all the other stores are being sold for use in combat? Do you really believe that because of the AR you cannot find any 243 or 308 ammo?? Is that why you have a hard time finding 22 LR also?? After all you can buy an AR in 22 LR also.


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## klbzdad

As far as round size and ballistic efficiency are concerned, they now chamber AR's in 6.8 as well (.270). The ballistics are even an improvement over the .243. Overall for big game hunting, I'll swap my muzzy barrel on my encore pro hunter to the 300 Win Mag and because I don't think HUNTING is taking a 1000 yard shot and because a single shot forces you to take a little more time and focus on that shot, I prefer it for deer and elk over my AR. The .223 is a perfect round for coyotes and I have less of a hard time finding that round than even a small box of .22!!! My final 2 pennies........


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## Nambaster

reb8600 said:


> So you are telling me that this was designed for combat?? http://http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228 It functions just like a 10/22 or 1187 shotgun. There are a lot of other rifles in semi auto also that were never used in combat and were designed specifically for hunting, Browning made a lot of them. They all do the same thing, they automatically load the next round for you. You pull the trigger and it fires one bullet. You let off the trigger and pull it to fire again. As someone else stated, the bolt action is also used in combat so why are you using it to hunt with? So was the muzzle loader and bow. There are many bolt action rifles with muzzle brake on them also. Guess we could say that is also a feature designed for the military. Why would you need that on a hunting rifle?AR Rifle is to Hunting Rifle as Dodge Viper is to daily commuter yes I am envious of those who have the luxury of owning one
> 
> Nobody asked or said anything about hunting with a 20 round magazine did they? You can buy 5 round mags also. The AR is a comfortable weapon to hold and shoot. I prefer them over a bolt action. I use a bolt action my self for big game and use my AR for coyotes. The fact I dont use the AR to hunt big game does not mean I am against it. Why do you even need more than one round then? The bolt actions hold 3-5 rounds. Why dont we all just use a single shot rifle. Agreed, there is optimal use for predator hunting for the AR any advantage the AR has on Big game can beat argued until the cows come home. You can get groceries in a Dodge Viper just as well as you can in a Dodge Caliber. One does not get groceries better than the other
> 
> Both these companies are now offer bolt action rifles that have removeable magazines. Are you against that also, after all why would you need to fire more than one round for big game hunting? Hopefully you don't
> 
> So you are saying that the AR's or any semi auto rifle being sold in Cabelas, Sportsmans and all the other stores are being sold for use in combat? noDo you really believe that because of the AR you cannot find any 243 or 308 ammo?? Is that why you have a hard time finding 22 LR also?? After all you can buy an AR in 22 LR also.


 Yes I am, has anyone conducted a study on the direct correlation between caliber availability and high capacity capability? The 10/22 is definitely a lot more to blame for the absence of .22 LR 

If 1-I is asking should I purchase an AR for the purpose of hunting Big game and shelf my current rifles. My advice is No, you should not If the question was should I purchase an AR the answer would be Yes, you should


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## Bax*

It sounds to me that the bigger argument is whether or not using high capacity magazines are right for hunting big game and not the platform they are associated with. 

I personally don't want to hunt with a guy who can't hit a target after 2-3 shots. I feel my safety would be at risk with that guy. However, it's not my place to tell a guy that he can't hunt with something that meets Division requirements.


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## torowy

I don't think it matters whether the gun is black or not..... but 223 is too small of a round for big game.


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## Skally

All Nambaster is trying to say is that there are better choices for a big game hunting rifle other than an AR.
Its called an "Assault Rifle" not a "hunting rifle" for a reason.


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## reb8600

Skally said:


> All Nambaster is trying to say is that there are better choices for a big game hunting rifle other than an AR.
> Its called an "Assault Rifle" not a "hunting rifle" for a reason.


That is not what AR stands for. Assualt rifle is just a term used by most that are against them. Those that use them call them a Modern Sporting Rifle. Saying there are better choices is all a personal opinion. Same could be said about what caliber to use or what make of rifle.


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## utahtim

I don't get the debate... I lived down in Tucson for a few years and saw a lot of deer shot by .223 up to the 200 yd range. Particularly by kids 10-13 years old. The main platform was the AR. If it works for you great, if it doesn't why bother anyone else


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## Skally

What does AR stand for?


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## outdoorser

Skally said:


> What does AR stand for?


Armalite Rifle.


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## FSHCHSR

AR stands for Armalite rifle and Ar s are a fine h,unting rifle. 
Oh beat me to it^


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## CrazyGame16

I'm a newbie here, but here's my .02. I carried an M4 for several years in various conditions, and spent some time doing some shop-level maintenance on them as an additional duty. By no means am I an expert, but I'm pretty familiar with the platform overall. ARs in general are well-machined, accurate, worthwhile rifles - for their purpose. I have no issue with folks who own them, fire them, or ethically hunt with them. 

Would I personally buy one for hunting, though? Definitely not. Variants in calibers other than .223 tend to be pretty expensive compared to bolt rifles (in general, I'm sure there are exceptions), and they tend to be heavier than bolt rifles in the same caliber (in general, I'm sure there are exceptions). Most importantly for me, though, I've found them to be fairly unreliable for field use. Unless you're carrying an HK-type MR with the piston system, a standard AR using carbon blowback has a finite working life before it needs a thorough cleaning, which isn't always practical in the field. This, coupled with tight manufacturing tolerances that love to gather dirt, sand, dust, mud, etc, create reliability issues that I just don't see with a plain, simple bolt rifle. 

OP - find one to shoot, and have a go. Once you're familiar with it, I'd buy what makes you happy. If the benefits of an AR outweigh the risks, go for it! If not, there are plenty of other options available.


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## FSHCHSR

How long has it been since you carried an M4? The M4 comes in at6.5 lbs not many bolt guns weigh less than that. As for reliability and maintenance a M4 can put 100s of rounds down the tube before losing any accuracy. They are also a very versatile hunting rifle coming in calibers from .22lr on up to the .50 bmg . And cost not going to be much more than a quality bolt gun.


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## CrazyGame16

FSHCHSR, 4 1/2 years. I'm sure everyone's experience with an AR's reliability may vary. Mine was that it's not terribly reliable. In terms of accuracy they're great, no doubt. In terms of reliability, though, I've never seen one fire hundreds of rounds without fail. They've been proven to do so in lab tests, but in field conditions I believe that would be tough to achieve, with failures to eject or extract high on the list of malfunctions. Several military units have dropped the M4 altogether for this reason, preferring the H&K 416 with its short stroke gas piston system or the FN SCAR. Again, not bashing ARs - to each their own, it's a great rifle in the right conditions, and most folks don't use it hard enough to inspire failure.

In terms of weight, you're right, a base AR with stock hand guards weighs in at 6 lbs 7 oz. Add 4 oz for the mag, and .75 oz per rd. with a 7 rd mag, you're up to 7 lbs .25 oz. Assuming same scope weight with rings and bases, a kimber classic (the rifle I carry hunting, in 280 AI) in .223 weighs 5 lbs 13 oz. With 6 rds, you're up to 6 lbs 1.5 oz. If you add a fore end rail system to the AR the weight begins to stack up, though, with KAC rail weighing in at another 11.3 oz. Move to a hunting specific AR like Remington and you start at 7 lbs 12 oz base weight. Smith and Wesson M&P 15 PC is 8 lbs 2 oz. The H&K MR556 (civilian 416) starts at 9 lbs even.

Price-wise, in .223 ARs aren't bad at the low end. Bump to .308 or a similar caliber for big game, though, and your price point increases from 800-900 to 1500-1600. At the higher end like Sig you can pay 2100, and you can break 3500 for an H&K in .308.

Again, though, I say buy what makes you happy! I wouldn't hunt big game with an AR, but that's just personal preference. I'd buy one for a fun gun, though, if I could afford the HK762 -


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## royta

CrazyGame16 said:


> I've never seen one fire hundreds of rounds without fail. They've been proven to do so in lab tests, but in field conditions I believe that would be tough to achieve, with failures to eject or extract high on the list of malfunctions. Again, not bashing ARs - to each their own, it's a great rifle in the right conditions, and most folks don't use it hard enough to inspire failure.


Lol!! Go spend some time on m4carbine.net and tell the folks, who go through 1000 rounds in one weekend at a training class, that their rifles aren't reliable. Report back.


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## klbzdad

Uhmmmm......I spent some quality time at http://bulletsandburgers.com/ . Never had more fun in my LIFE and their M4 and other AR platform rifles spit out THOUSANDS PER DAY. The only other rifle they would say outperforms the AR is the AK47. AND if you were working on the ones that did have issues, of course your experience will be worse than those who never have an issue with theirs. Mine has spit out at least 5000 rounds since I bought it and the only work done to it, other than regular cleaning and maintenance are the mods I did to add a light and laser to it for coyotes. Not doubting your experience with them, Crazy...but maybe your expertise, a little?

I would agree that one should shoot a rifle first before buying one and then buy what suits your purpose, comfort, and budget.


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## ckamanao

Anyone ever ask a Conservation Officer what they shoot with when the have to handle depredation issues? 

I work with a lot of them on a daily basis. I shoot an LMT with a IOR Valdada 1.5-8x35mm scope and a Trijicon Red dot on a 45 degree mount. My scope has a reticle designed for a 62gr projectile out to 800 yards with a 200 yard zero. With it I have taken multiple deer and elk. My AR might be a little more "tricked out" than most, but it gets the job done. My latest shot was a 245 yard broadside on a Mule Deer right behind the front shoulder, last week. Dropped him in his tracks with Hornady 75gr match ammo . The duty ammo issued to us is Federal 55gr sftpt.

Why do I shoot this platform? It's what we are issued and we can only shoot what we've been issued and qualified with. I've NEVER lost an animal with this platform and I've NEVER had one go more than 40yrds after being shot. It's all about shot placement. End of story.

Why do other people hunt with this platform? Because they choose to. Coming from an LEO, if its not against the law-then what's the problem. And I've seen A LOT of Elk lost from guys shooting high powered scoped hunting rifles. So if someone chooses to hunt with an AR, what's the issue? Because it carries more ammunition? Does more ammo really make a difference? I know that it sucks trying to prone out with a 30 rnd mag. Maybe its because they can only afford ONE firearm and the AR is one of the best, all around firearms on the market from home defense to hunting.

As long as they are able to put the round where it counts, in the end, does it really matter?


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## USMARINEhuntinfool

My wife carries a Ruger Mini-14 as her deer rifle of choice. She has killed 2 deer in the last 3 years with the rifle, she missed a deer last year when I made her to switch to a bolt action .308. She is back to the Mini-14 this year. She's comfortable and accurate both bucks were killed with 1 shot. The AR is similar practically identical in function to the Mini-14 although looking different. With the right round and in the right hands the .223 is a perfect option. That being said it is not best for everyone. As far as the M4/AR reliability. I've put just a few thousand rounds through each platform and have yet to have any reliability issues. Atleast not from the platform, magazines are a different story.


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## CrazyGame16

klbzdad, ckamanao, appreciate your opinions and experience. As I stated above, I do not consider myself an expert on the platform, I've just had some experience I considered relevant to the question the OP asked. My opinion hasn't changed, but to each his own. At the end of the day, if the rifle fits your need, good on ya!


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## ckamanao

I don't know about deer, but it handled this bull just fine.:shock:


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## Huge29

ckamanao said:


> View attachment 21089
> 
> 
> I don't know about deer, but it handled this bull just fine.:shock:


Congrats, which caliber?


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## ckamanao

.223 75gr Hornady Match from 312 yards


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## Unga112

CrazyGame16 said:


> FSHCHSR, 4 1/2 years. I'm sure everyone's experience with an AR's reliability may vary. Mine was that it's not terribly reliable. In terms of accuracy they're great, no doubt. In terms of reliability, though, I've never seen one fire hundreds of rounds without fail. They've been proven to do so in lab tests, but in field conditions I believe that would be tough to achieve, with failures to eject or extract high on the list of malfunctions. Several military units have dropped the M4 altogether for this reason, preferring the H&K 416 with its short stroke gas piston system or the FN SCAR. Again, not bashing ARs - to each their own, it's a great rifle in the right conditions, and most folks don't use it hard enough to inspire failure.
> 
> In terms of weight, you're right, a base AR with stock hand guards weighs in at 6 lbs 7 oz. Add 4 oz for the mag, and .75 oz per rd. with a 7 rd mag, you're up to 7 lbs .25 oz. Assuming same scope weight with rings and bases, a kimber classic (the rifle I carry hunting, in 280 AI) in .223 weighs 5 lbs 13 oz. With 6 rds, you're up to 6 lbs 1.5 oz. If you add a fore end rail system to the AR the weight begins to stack up, though, with KAC rail weighing in at another 11.3 oz. Move to a hunting specific AR like Remington and you start at 7 lbs 12 oz base weight. Smith and Wesson M&P 15 PC is 8 lbs 2 oz. The H&K MR556 (civilian 416) starts at 9 lbs even.
> 
> Price-wise, in .223 ARs aren't bad at the low end. Bump to .308 or a similar caliber for big game, though, and your price point increases from 800-900 to 1500-1600. At the higher end like Sig you can pay 2100, and you can break 3500 for an H&K in .308.
> 
> Again, though, I say buy what makes you happy! I wouldn't hunt big game with an AR, but that's just personal preference. I'd buy one for a fun gun, though, if I could afford the HK762 -


Sounds to me like the guys you gun with don’t maintain their guns well. Also, just because the magazine holds 5-100 rounds based on which one you want to load doesn’t mean you have to use them all. I seriously doubt any Hunter goes hunting with a single round in the gun and no other round on their person somewhere. Fudd’s are going to Fudd. The cartridge,caliber and barrel engineering are all nearly the same for a bolt gun vs semi auto and if you have it sighted properly and have good gun control and trigger pull technique you should be able to fire either accurately enough to take down game.
ARs are just like bolt actions in that they are as accurate as you make them assuming you don’t buy a piece of junk. Also, ARs tend to be lighter in their base forms than a bolt action of the same caliber, depending on how many widgets you add to it they can be as heavy or light as you want.

As far as hunting I plan to build a .308 skeletonized AR specifically for hunting. And plan to use it. I may eventually buy a bolt gun because there is something about cycling the bolt that just feels good but that won’t happen until they increase production of both gunsand ammo.


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## FeartheTurtle

I have a couple of DPMS .223's topped with Vortex Spitzer scopes that the kids and I love for target shooting. They work fine for antelope hunting out to about 250 yards with Fusion 62 grain bullets. We have killed maybe a dozen bucks and does with that setup. We also carry a 6mm for longer shots. I don't think I would use a .223 on a mule deer. Too much can go wrong.


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## ns450f

Please don't take an ar chambered in .223 deer hunting. Will a .223 kill a deer? Sure, but I have a feeling anyone using an ar chambered in .223 to deer hunt is only going to empty a magazine at a deer while only injuring it at best..... please don't be that guy.


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## Stickboy2

Though it’s a bit too heavy to hunt with, my service match AR will hold sub 1MOA out to the long line at 600 all day...if I do my part slung up. I pulled together a purpose built AR in 223 for my daughter to hunt with (65 grn GameKing). She hunted 3 years killing 5 white tails out to 250 before bumping up to a 22-250 bolt rig to hunt mule deer (70grn TSX). None of the deer required a second round. Were there better options? Sure! I liked it that this one was extremely light recoiling and with the pistol grip/collapsable stock made it a great choice for someone with a small frame. You couple that with us living behind enemy lines...it was a no brainer. Most states require 5 round mag, non-issue.

Now If you are looking to buy a big game gun, you have better options. If you are strapped for cash and you wanna get an AR before creepy Joe buys it back....and still wanna hunt deer? Then you can satisfy both if you buy a quality upper.

Best of luck!


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## High Desert Elk

ram2h2o said:


> Ditto to what DallenC said. An AR in a heavier caliber is fine for deer. A .223 round is a bit light and small. Will kill a Deer if you hit it accurately in the head. Stick with an AR with something like a .308 will kill Deer for sure.


.223/5.56 would be ideal for antelope.


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## colorcountrygunner

High Desert Elk said:


> .223/5.56 would be ideal for antelope.


I plan on using mine on an antlerless lope hunt this year. 55 grain Speer Gold Dot through the lungs will do the trick. And no I won't be emptying the magazine on it just because it's an AR as another poster suggested lol.


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## Critter

While it isn't deer hunting or a AR I once had a Ruger Mini 14 with a 30 round magazine that was fully loaded. 

We were out driving in the west desert one morning when a coyote crossed the road around 50 yards ahead of the truck. We screeched to a halt and I jumped out of the passenger side grabbed my rifle and ran about 20 yards to where I had a clear shot at the now running coyote. My first shot was a miss, and the coyote kicked it into high gear. Two more quick shots and he shifted into hyper drive. I stood up and watched him for a half second and the thought came to me that I had 27 or so more rounds left to shoot. I started to kick dust up behind him and on the 10th or so round I finally connected. That coyote was 465 or so long steps away from where I was standing when that round connected. 

And they say that we don't need high capacity magazines.


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## colorcountrygunner

Critter said:


> While it isn't deer hunting or a AR I once had a Ruger Mini 14 with a 30 round magazine that was fully loaded.
> 
> We were out driving in the west desert one morning when a coyote crossed the road around 50 yards ahead of the truck. We screeched to a halt and I jumped out of the passenger side grabbed my rifle and ran about 20 yards to where I had a clear shot at the now running coyote. My first shot was a miss, and the coyote kicked it into high gear. Two more quick shots and he shifted into hyper drive. I stood up and watched him for a half second and the thought came to me that I had 27 or so more rounds left to shoot. I started to kick dust up behind him and on the 10th or so round I finally connected. That coyote was 465 or so long steps away from where I was standing when that round connected.
> 
> And they say that we don't need high capacity magazines.


That would've cost you about $20 to do now. Still worth it.


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