# Mass Shooting info, must read



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

In my attempt to understand the mass shootings in America, I can upon this excellent interactive story.

Now, I am not here trying to make a point one way or the other but only trying to gain a better understanding of the world we live in.

Look at it, click on some of the things...you might spend a lot of time as I did 'cause the sight is very interesting.

Try and keep an open mind, I know sometimes we want to "kill the messenger", but really, the world is not all fake news just because we may not always agree with the way or by whom the message is delivered.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...-shootings-in-america/?utm_term=.f66e158856a1


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing it. I didn't think it agenda driven. It pretty much lays out the facts. We had an active shooter training thing at work last month - same day as a school shooting happened in California. The instructor, a law enforcement officer and military veteran, laid out pretty much the same information.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*a good read*

thanks BP

.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks for the read. It's hard to nitpick- but they need someone who actually knows about firearms to contribute. Problem is, most that know won't contribute.

" Some of the Las Vegas shooter's guns had been fitted with legal devices called "bump-fire stocks," *which allow semiautomatic rifles to fire as quickly as automatic ones*."

At least they didn't drive it home. I was reading hoping it ended with "which allow semiautomatic rifles to fire at a faster rate" or something like that. Same message only accurate.


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## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

That's an interested article. Thanks for Sharing BP. My wife told me a stat last night (I'm not sure where she got it or if it's true) but of the 27 worst mass shooters only one was raised by their biological fathers. I don't think that's a coincidence.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I believe there isn't one overall cause but many. One I really hate is it seems like the media glamorizes shootings too much. Its like a video game and they continually mention the body count like its the new "high score", that the next deranged individual wants to top. 

I loathe the media for this. Anyone remember when Rolling Stone magazine put the Boston bomber survivor on their front page? How disgusting, but its even worse that that rag hasn't been boycotted into bankruptcy for such behavior. A slap in the face to the victims of that event.


-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> I believe there isn't one overall cause but many. One I really hate is it seems like the media glamorizes shootings too much. Its like a video game and they continually mention the body count like its the new "high score", that the next deranged individual wants to top.
> 
> I loathe the media for this. Anyone remember when Rolling Stone magazine put the Boston bomber survivor on their front page? How disgusting, but its even worse that that rag hasn't been boycotted into bankruptcy for such behavior. A slap in the face to the victims of that event.
> 
> -DallanC


Kids grow up dreaming of being on the cover of a magazine. I love rock-n-roll and magazines (pre-internet) were the source of the world. The "cover" was always significant and still is on some magazines.

Then they put a terrorist on there. Instantly ruining the stigma around them, and teaching kids something different. Maybe it was a small thing. Maybe kids don't care about magazines as much. However how do you go from Mick Jagger to a terrorist? Now kids are taught they can be famous for being evil.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Here is another pretty interesting read. This goes through a variety of ideas for stopping school shootings, and why they may or may not work. Not a bad article IMO.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...-shooters-so-what-could/ar-BBJL5UP?li=BBnb7Kz


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Its easy. Locked down closed campus's w/ a school cop on duty. 

My sister in High School here in Utah County had an in school cop... in 1978. It sure as heck didn't hurt anything then, why are people opposed to it now? I don't get it...


-DallanC


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Thoughtful article. 

The current conversation around "red flag" indicators and laws is interesting until you get down to brass tacks. How do you do that in a meaningful way while respecting an individual's due process? What level of evidence is needed to strip someone of their right to bear arm's? The notion of moving that determination away from mental health professionals to the lay public seems riddled with subjectivity. I do think it would help in restricting access to those who commit domestic abuse but I'm not sure any viable law that actually takes into account a nuanced take on due process would lead to much of a decrease in mass shootings. That will always be a stringent legal hurdle. I'm not personally against the general idea but the language and protections would have to be very specific.

Glad to see nuanced media articles tackling the subject. I'm not sure we are the needed critical mass for a sea change but I'm the most optimistic I have been after any of these events.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

DallanC said:


> Its easy. Locked down closed campus's w/ a school cop on duty.
> 
> My sister in High School here in Utah County had an in school cop... in 1978. It sure as heck didn't hurt anything then, why are people opposed to it now? I don't get it...
> 
> -DallanC


Most schools have an on-site resource office, if not multiple. We always did in the 80s-90s.

The locked campus didn't stop Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook. He shot his way in. I know Utah is considering bullet proof glass but our school's are underfunded nation-wide so retro-fitting all public schools will add up fast.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I think that is what made the article interesting - none of the "fixes" really fix anything. 

The school in Florida did have a resource officer. All high schools have one or more. And the guy stayed out of the building when he heard the gunshots. The County Sheriff's office is on the hot plate big time over that. When other deputies showed up, they are claiming the didn't know what building the shooter was in, so they started setting up a perimeter and didn't go in. No cop went in until 15 minutes after the shooting started. Which was after it had ended.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

GaryFish said:


> I think that is what made the article interesting - none of the "fixes" really fix anything.
> 
> The school in Florida did have a resource officer. All high schools have one or more. And the guy stayed out of the building when he heard the gunshots. The County Sheriff's office is on the hot plate big time over that. When other deputies showed up, they are claiming the didn't know what building the shooter was in, so they started setting up a perimeter and didn't go in. No cop went in until 15 minutes after the shooting started. Which was after it had ended.


+1

There is no good excuse for the officers not entering building. I have family in law enforcement and know the incredible weight the position carries. That being said regular citizens are counting on law enforcement to serve and protect in these very types of situations when they can't really defend themselves.

It sucks that these shootings are so frequent.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Interesting thing about this last one is the various perspectives on it. My daughter is studying psychology at Utah State, and came home for the weekend. We were talking about this last night, and in her circles, she feels like this Florida shooting is drawing unjustified accusations against people with mental health issues, and that discrimination will result. My cop friends are feeling under pressure as there is much angst in how law enforcement did, or in this case, did not respond when the shooting started. My teacher friends are on the defensive and feeling picked on and saying they want more resources to be better teachers, not guns. Of course as gun people, we are seeing the attacks and demands for gun restrictions. 

Stepping back just a bit, this particular case exposed a whole lot of breakdowns. It also shows that perceived fixes still did not prevent this. This example revealed a breakdown in "run, hide, fight," "see something say something," family and foster family system, local law enforcement not doing enough, FBI not acting on tips, school resource officer not reacting in a way to stop the shooter, school building/campus design that cannot be secured, legal arms sale to person with mental health issues, illegal arms sale through straw purchase to person under age in that state, security cameras broadcasting on a 20 minute delay (how was that even a thing?), etc... ALL of the laws and systems and organizations that had any kind of role, failed. I guess the good thing is that the kid's gun jammed and he didn't know how to un-jam it in the moment, or there would have been many more victims.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

GaryFish said:


> I guess the good thing is that the kid's gun jammed and he didn't know how to un-jam it in the moment, or there would have been many more victims.


Click...tap, tug, rack, flip, point in.

Mushy trigger...look and move (see brass high). tap, tug, rack, flip, point in.

Mushy trigger...look and move (see brass low). Check, lock, strip, finger sweep, rack, rack, rack, insert, tug, close bolt, point in.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

As the OP mentioned about how we are certainly biased, for sure, and this is only made worse by completely staged and false claims like the Hogg guy being a student, when in reality he is 21 having graduated in 2015 from a nearby high school, yet they are claiming him as a survivor...It really does nothing for the fake news to continue. Similarly, the claim that there have been 18 school shootings just this year because they include the most ridiculous incidents whereas any logical person would conclude that there have been three.
In looking at my local semi rural high school I am surprised at the security added since I attended. They actually do have an officer too, but teachers complain that he does nothing but watch cameras, whereas I would think it would be good to have a presence as a deterrent. This is the real answer, anyone who thinks that 1-they can just ignore the constitution as the foundation of our republic 2-that any ban of any kind would actually reduce this is completely ignorant of actual real life data. So many apparently ignore the fact that we just had a ban like many want again from 1994-2004 with literally no visible reduction; one could cite a few instances of violent crime increasing. Just to assume for a moment that this were to happen 3-say that there would be any influence from the estimated 36,000,000 AR15's sold in the last 6 years, maybe the great majority will also destroy their's? I just can not see for the life of me how any person remotely logical would think that their actions would really reduce these crimes. Nancy Pelosi herself even admitted in an interview days after the Vegas incident that no law could have possibly avoided this, yet she still proposes changes, so what is the real motive?


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I am confused, are you supporting or critiquing the claim that David Hogg is 21 and not a student of the school?


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Huge, Hogg is a student. Perpetuation of false information is not specific to the left.

His ideas may be worthy of criticism and his usage by the media may promote policies that aren't favorable to law abiding gun owners. However, the implication that his status as a student at the high school where this tragedy took place was a fraud is far more illustrative of the problem you were bringing up regarding alternative facts. 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you were saying though.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...u-shouldnt-believe-claims-stoneman-high-stud/

Also relevant, and likely to remain so for years, is the signal boosting of russian trolls/bots to divisive ideas and theories:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ssian-trolls-exploited-parkland-mass-shootin/

A lot of misinformation out there and a handful of people that benefit from citizens trusting it and passing it on in good faith.


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