# A 9mm bullet blows a lung out of the body



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531301347508862979


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## CHIEF_10_BEERS (Mar 24, 2021)

Tuesday, November 5, 2024 cant come quick enough................................


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I really wish presidents would just keep it to "we are working with Congress" when it comes to these issues. They aren't trained well enough to speak to particulars on most subjects like this and their team members are the ones who know the relevant details. I support using the bully pulpit to jumpstart Congress into action but keep it to the facts about the massacres and existing law.

Sadly too many Americans want the POTUS to be a mythical philosopher king who is wise on every subject and can solve our problems by snapping their fingers. They forget why we have 535 elected officials in Congress to debate and hash out these things.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

backcountry said:


> Sadly too many Americans want the POTUS to be a mythical scholar king who is wise on every subject and can solve our problems by snapping their fingers. They forget why we have 535 elected officials in Congress to debate and hash out these things.


I don't take issue with him not being a "mythical scholar king". I take issue with the blatant fear mongering and hyperbole. I think even non-gun people generally know that 9mm handguns don't blow people into confetti. The majority of people shot by 9s in Chicago on any given day survive. His statement about .22 caliber wounds being easier to survive is really dumb. I hope I never have to use a firearm on another human being, but if I do the goal is to make them dead and quickly. I want the bullet to do horrible and heinous things to their vital organs.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

The dummy even said guns like that have no place for hunting. A 9mm isn't a good choice for hunting, but not because it is too deadly but because it is too anemic. The idea that highly deadly guns shouldn't be used for hunting is pretty bass ackwards. Everything he said in that little clip was so painfully stupid. I don't go out of my way to be a partisan guy, but I can't suffer that level of stupidity. When I first heard about this I thought people were taking his words out of context. Then I watched the clip and holy chit what a window licking water head.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> The dummy even said guns like that have no place for hunting. A 9mm isn't a good choice for hunting, but not because it is too deadly but because it is too anemic. The idea that highly deadly guns shouldn't be used for hunting is pretty bass ackwards. Everything he said in that little clip was so painfully stupid. I don't go out of my way to be a partisan guy, but I can't suffer that level of stupidity. When I first heard about this I thought people were taking his words out of context. Then I watched the clip and holy chit what a window licking water head.


And to think he is a thousand times smarter than those who voted for him. Oh well in before the lock


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

He's just an easily controlled empty suit. He may be warming the oval office chair, but he's not the one calling the shots. It's no surprise he's talking out of his ass. He always does. What pisses me off is the *blatant lies. *Itis like their not even trying to pretend to be objective anymore.

What bothers me, besides the *bold faced blatant lies*, is the overall larger picture. Ever since that potato was *installed*, yes, *INSTALLED*, look at what they've tried to do. From Day 1 to the present.

- Killed energy independence on day 1 (Yes the I did that stickers are spot on)

- Opened our southern border, and your **** right it was for political purposes in terms of the electorate. Beyond that, we are staring down the barrel of a deep recession, possibly a depression, and possible food shortages to boot. Talk about carrying capacity of land and the open border.

- They've tried to federalize elections, so they can keep doing what they did in 2020.

- They want to stack the court and may possibly still do it.

- They tried to open a ministry of truth. Government Disiinformation board my ass.

Have i forgotten anything? (edit: economy, inflation, weeeeee.....)

NOW they are coming for are guns... again. As a single issue, id say, "Buisness as usual". However in the larger context, its BS. (edit: Especially in light of the 2020 "Summer of love" , which may happen again. ) Canada let the real agenda out of the bag, as if we didn't already know it.

Yeah I just killed this thread. Big mistaking watching the news while ironing clothes getting ready for a funeral. Nobody can get me cussing out loud more then this current regieme. I can't stand to even hear them talk. At all.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Colorcountry ,

I agree what he said was unintelligent. The philosopher king remark is to society expecting presidents to be able to speak to ALL these issues with any expertise. That expectation has led to presidents trying to answer questions instead of deferring to experts. I don't believe they should avoid questions yet they should know when to STFU. Sadly we've made that politically untenable as it would be seen as an unacceptable weakness. The last 2 presidents have been perfect examples of the trend. 

And yes, home defense weapons aren't designed to just scare intruders. I try to be blunt about that with my progressive friends when possible. If push comes to shove & I'm in a situation in which I'm using my firearm against another human threatening my family the my goal is to eliminate the threat they pose to us, even if that means lethal force.

Per context, he was evidently referring back to the visits to ERs he did when the handgun bill was before the Senate. Knowing Biden his telling of what the surgeon told him is likely embellished. He's not known for precise memory at this point. 

I really wish he and other big names would let the technocrats (especially constitutional scholars) speak and problem solve. His only job here is to encourage Congress to act and hopefully sign constitutional and well supported legislation. But modern presidents and legislators have a way of ruining any opportunity of that.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

bowgy said:


> And to think he is a thousand times smarter than those who voted for him. Oh well in before the lock


That wasn't necessary. Calling all of us that supported him stupid only makes things worse.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

backcountry said:


> He's not known for precise memory at this point.


Sometimes it's the most subtle humor that packs the biggest punch. That was a .22 caliber comment that gave me a 9mm Luger (or should we call it the 9mm lunger for its ability to divest human bodies of their lungs) size laugh. Thanks, backcountry.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Alright guys, fun’s over. The topic of guns is important, and like Vanilla pointed out in another thread, it may be impossible to discuss the best avenue to proceed without bringing politics into it. But, let’s give it a try.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

This guy beat out Tupac and 50 cent









Man survives after being shot 21 times in gunfight


He was shot 21 times after a gunfight in New York City on Sunday, but survived.




www.smh.com.au


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

D


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

CPAjeff said:


> Alright guys, fun’s over. The topic of guns is important, and like Vanilla pointed out in another thread, it may be impossible to discuss the best avenue to proceed without bringing politics into it. But, let’s give it a try.


My apologies.


In any event, I wrote Mike Lee, and I attempted to write Romney yesterday to oppose any new legislation while I had a ton more to worry about. I was able to get something out to Lee, but with Romney the form kept erroring out. I have to wonder why. It was roughly the same message, on the same .gov website, just a different subdomain.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

bowgy said:


> And to think he is a thousand times smarter than those who voted for him. Oh well in before the lock


Very true, appropriate, and necessary. Thank you sir.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

It's hard to explain to someone on "the other side of the fence" that gun laws or the term "common sense" are met with massive resistance not only because of 2A, but also because no one wants to try and compromise with someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. The few firearm knowledgeable people on the pro-ban side usually come in way too hot from a position of privelege "I used an X in the army and no regular person should have that."

It's hard to get two willing sides together who actually know firearms and what could or couldn't be reasonable.

There are firearm people, people on this forum, who could probably call out areas that could be improved that would HELP (not fix or prevent) some of the issues. They also are afraid of what giving an inch could do. This will always be a fight between educated, uneducated, and the "no middle ground" crowd.


Disclaimer - this post shouldn't imply any stance on the issue. It's mearly looking at one factor in the dialogue.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I always like to tell people, that there are bolt action AR15 uppers. There are shotgun AR15 uppers... and there are even muzzleloader AR15 uppers. 

I ask if they actually expect to be taken seriously, that banning AR15 Muzzleloader's will prevent mass shootings?

They really need to be arguing RATE OF FIRE, not gun types that may or may not even be an issue.

-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

RandomElk16 said:


> The few firearm knowledgeable people on the pro-ban side usually come in way too hot from a position of privelege "I used an X in the army and no regular person should have that."


I'll wager most vets on the anti-gun side are full of crap. The reality is, most service members are not trigger pullers, and i'll bet not even half of them actually read and understood the constitution and bill of rights until sometime after they got out. Reading and understanding the constitution is not something an 18 year old does, which is when most probably first enlist - right out of high school. Ironic since you swear an oath to defend it.

Personally, when I hear, "As a vet......" my BS flag goes up - and I'm a vet. Many think that their service gives them the bona fides when it comes to firearms, gun control, or who should have what, when in reality they maybe had to shoot 80 rounds a year for annual qualification, and their primary specialty involved something entirely different then something firearms related. Some don't even have to do annual qual.

Speaking for myself, my primary duty "weapon" was a rake, a hammer, a weiding torch, or some hand tool as I was basically a construction worker. My secondary duty weapon was an M16-A2. I trained on the A1. Gods honest truth, i got better marksmanship training in a civillian class then i did as a combat engineer in the chairforce, and thats speaking as a guy who has a Special Experience Identifier on his service record.

So yeah, i call BS on those guys.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The last big "assault weapons ban" bill I read (many years ago) from Mrs Diane Feinstein went out of its way to describe features of the AR15 to ban it and all variations of it. 

But, at the bottom of the bill was a list of "exclusions", and on that list was the Mini-14. A virtually identical firearm, same semi-auto action design, same large capacity magazines, same caliber... yet it was ok but the AR15 wasnt? WTF?

-DallanC


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

DallanC said:


> The last big "assault weapons ban" bill I read (many years ago) from Mrs Diane Feinstein went out of its way to describe features of the AR15 to ban it and all variations of it.
> 
> But, at the bottom of the bill was a list of "exclusions", and on that list was the Mini-14. A virtually identical firearm, same semi-auto action design, same large capacity magazines, same caliber... yet it was ok but the AR15 wasnt? WTF?
> 
> -DallanC


Guess someone in her family had one and didn't want to lose it.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Leave everything the way it is except 18 year olds should not be able to buy ARs !If they want to join the army to shoot one fine. I couldn’t even buy a shotgun until I was 19. OK lets hear it let me have it


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

> "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "


Its pretty clear. it says "Keep and Bear" arms... nothing about limiting the aquisition of said arms. I believe this language is intentional. Restrictions on purchase such as background checks or whatever as long as they aren't too onerous or restrictive (ie: applying the same type of checks for a class III weapon applied to say, a bolt action rifle purchase) I'm fine with. Once it enters your possession (legally) however, your right to keep it should not be infringed upon. If you own guns but then commit some felony or whatever that bars you from legally purchasing weapons, I do agree you should loose any right to guns you already own.

I do however, agree passing along guns to immediate family members should be exempt from checks, as long as the person receiving the firearms is legally able to own them (ie: Grandpa passing along his 30-30 to his grandson, dad to his son etc).

-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I mean.. I know where I would "compromise" and what I feel is common sense but some people want 0 gun laws so I don't know that I should share it


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## maffleck6 (8 mo ago)

Lone_Hunter said:


> My apologies.
> 
> 
> In any event, I wrote Mike Lee, and I attempted to write Romney yesterday to oppose any new legislation while I had a ton more to worry about. I was able to get something out to Lee, but with Romney the form kept erroring out. I have to wonder why. It was roughly the same message, on the same .gov website, just a different subdomain.


Just curious as to how this works exactly? If Lee supports selling public lands how do said lands get sold? I don't think Romney or Lee have much to do with it do they? If Lee is saying he supports States rights and then the States do what they do, is he really to blame/credit? If he were against selling public lands does it matter? My understanding of how this works is the States rights folks want the land to be returned to the State. The battle would be with State leaders to preserve public lands. If Congress returned land to the States, the States would decide what to do. Take it further, If you want to be mad/happy with Erda township for how they are handling development, why would you blame/credit the Governor? I recognize that you can dislike a politician and therefore take issue with that person. I would rather have land returned to the State and local governments and let them be accountable. But maybe that is naive and land needs federal protection? Who do you all think should be making these public land decisions?


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## maffleck6 (8 mo ago)

maffleck6 said:


> Just curious as to how this works exactly? If Lee supports selling public lands how do said lands get sold? I don't think Romney or Lee have much to do with it do they? If Lee is saying he supports States rights and then the States do what they do, is he really to blame/credit? If he were against selling public lands does it matter? My understanding of how this works is the States rights folks want the land to be returned to the State. The battle would be with State leaders to preserve public lands. If Congress returned land to the States, the States would decide what to do. Take it further, If you want to be mad/happy with Erda township for how they are handling development, why would you blame/credit the Governor? I recognize that you can dislike a politician and therefore take issue with that person. I would rather have land returned to the State and local governments and let them be accountable. But maybe that is naive and land needs federal protection? Who do you all think should be making these public land decisions?


Whoops got this one confused with the public lands thread.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

7mm Reloaded said:


> Leave everything the way it is except 18 year olds should not be able to buy ARs !If they want to join the army to shoot one fine. I couldn’t even buy a shotgun until I was 19. OK lets hear it let me have it


Holmes told at least five qualified mental health professionals he was going to kill people, but he was 24 and would still have been able to buy a gun under this proposed rule. Gendron and Ramos had both been telling people they meant to kill people, Ramos specifically said he was going to shoot up a school 4 years earlier. Ethan Crumbley used a gun his parents bought for him, Adam Lanza used his mom's guns. All five of these are cases of observed mental health issues that should have made guns inaccessible to the shooters and only two would have been prevented by a law raising the age to buy an AR-15 (and whoop de doo on that anyway, just go buy an AK, Mini-14, 9mm carbine, etc.) As long as we keep saying people's actions don't matter and keep blaming everything on whatever convenient tool is laying around, we'll never solve the problem. In the UK they have people murdering each other with spoons so they confiscate spoons. What comes after that, can't have a car that doesn't use electronic start because the keys can be used as a weapon? No more metal buttons on clothes, have to keep your nails clipped, only soft-soled shoes? When you stop putting people in the nut house, the whole world becomes the nut house.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Average age of Mass Shooters: 33.2 years old









Mass Shooting Factsheet | Rockefeller Institute of Government







rockinst.org





-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Personally, I think the cause of mass shootings has more to do with societal changes brought about by the internet, social media and technology then it does firearms. 

When I was a kid, growing up the 80's-90s, when the closest thing we had to the internet was an encyclopedia set and the yellow pages - the only shootings you heard about were drive-bys, and those were all gang related.


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## NH Hunter (Feb 4, 2008)

It seems like there's more inertia this time around due to the fairly short time between these shootings. I had to look up "gun show loophole" to see what the libs are talking about. I've been to quite a few gun shows in several different states and I have not seen any "loophole" at gun shows that don't exist outside of gun shows. You buy a gun from a dealer at a table, you fill out the background check form. No different than a gun shop. The media and liberal politicians likes to use the term because it conjures up mental picture of ******** in a room full of firearms, and that scares them. What they should be calling it is the "private sale exemption". I might get flamed for this but I don't have a big problem with background checks for private sales, IF..... they are done at no cost and are handled by licensed dealers. The dealer should get paid by Uncle Sam. I'm not in favor of describing the item being purchased, just if the buyer is legally permitted to purchase a firearm. Unfortunately I see opportunities to abuse that system. Maybe a small nominal fee would work. Really small. When I was in the USAF, they took the M-16's away from us and gave us 12 ga pump guns and 00 buck loads for weapons convoy duty. Qualifying with that gun was awful. Metal butt plate. Right handed around the barrier, left handed around the barrier. No fun. I have a 350 Legend upper that I am hoping to use for deer this fall. I hope I get to use it. If I was going to defend against an intruder I would probably grab that over an AR. And a set of ear muffs.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Jedidiah said:


> Holmes told at least five qualified mental health professionals he was going to kill people, but he was 24 and would still have been able to buy a gun under this proposed rule. Gendron and Ramos had both been telling people they meant to kill people, Ramos specifically said he was going to shoot up a school 4 years earlier. Ethan Crumbley used a gun his parents bought for him, Adam Lanza used his mom's guns. All five of these are cases of observed mental health issues that should have made guns inaccessible to the shooters and only two would have been prevented by a law raising the age to buy an AR-15 (and whoop de doo on that anyway, just go buy an AK, Mini-14, 9mm carbine, etc.) As long as we keep saying people's actions don't matter and keep blaming everything on whatever convenient tool is laying around, we'll never solve the problem. In the UK they have people murdering each other with spoons so they confiscate spoons. What comes after that, can't have a car that doesn't use electronic start because the keys can be used as a weapon? No more metal buttons on clothes, have to keep your nails clipped, only soft-soled shoes? When you stop putting people in the nut house, the whole world becomes the nut house.
> [/QUOTE 🤔nice try


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Jedidiah said:


> What comes after that, can't have a car that doesn't use electronic start because the keys can be used as a weapon?


Kids can't even get splinters on the playground or burn themselves on metal slides anymore. 

We can't have nice things lol


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I still remember as a kid sitting on top of the hay stack in the bed of the truck swaying back and forth as we drove, using a stick to lift the utility wires high enough for the hay bales to pass under.

-DallanC


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

DallanC said:


> I still remember as a kid sitting on top of the hay stack in the bed of the truck swaying back and forth as we drove, using a stick to lift the utility wires high enough for the hay bales to pass under.
> 
> -DallanC


Today's parents have a tendency to helicopter parent a little too much but there is another end of the spectrum as well. I'm glad you are still here 🤣


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## BGD (Mar 23, 2018)

DallanC said:


> I still remember as a kid sitting on top of the hay stack in the bed of the truck swaying back and forth as we drove, using a stick to lift the utility wires high enough for the hay bales to pass under.
> 
> -DallanC


i didn’t lift any wires but I was on top of a stack heading out of the field one day that avalanched as we went up a hill. The back end wasn’t stacked tight enough and gave way. Fortunately i escaped without injury but that sure seamed like a long fall, especially since I couldn’t see the ground. All I could see was falling hay bales beneath me. Things are a bit overkill on safety these days but I certainly used up plenty of my 9 lives.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Today's parents have a tendency to helicopter parent a little too much but there is another end of the spectrum as well. I'm glad you are still here 🤣


Being overprotective to an extreme might be one reason why we have a generation of snowflakes. Take this anti-bully campaign that seems to have been waged for awhile now. Don't get me wrong, nothing cool about being bullied, but it was part of growing up. You learned how to deal with conflict. Things like this, not just this, but like this, is one reason why we have an entire generation that can't handle it when someone so much as disagrees with them.

Personally, as a Dad, I take the same approach as my own upbringing. Being a VERY steretypical Gen Xer growing up, I was left to my own devices. (latch key kid) Both my parents worked, and I was the only child. I had to figure everything out myself, and usually, if I had stuff i had to do, I had to do it before my dad got home - or I was gonna get it, but good. Anyway, my approach has been, to tell my daughter "I want, this, that, and this other thing done, by the end of the day". I then let her figure it out for herself, and manage her own time. If she screws up, she gets "Mean daddy". ... ehh.. actually it's more like "Sargent Daddy". I need to give her more chores to do, she's kinda soft, but then, she's 8 and still beleives in the tooth fairy.


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