# Drahthaars vs Griffs



## Mr Muleskinner

I have decided that I am going to get a wirehaired breed. Which breed has not been determined yet.

I have talked with a few people and have had few people PM me but I am still curious. I posted something similar on utahbirddogs and while I have received a couple of PM's I would like to hear a lot more.

If you have already PM'd me I appreciate your help and responses. I am just gathering all of the info that I can on the breeds. I understand that it is polarizing subject and I'm not so concerned with the GWP vs DD conversation. 

What I would really like to hear is what wirehaired breed you prefer and why.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

hard to believe that nobody wants to promote their wirehaired breed.


----------



## roseman

I know the hair on my rear is more attractive than a Griffon or DD. I guess if that's what your after, those DDs are pretty hard to beat.


----------



## DarKHorN

Dude wasnt you wanting a French Brittany? Now your gettting talked into goin with a Griff or a Drahthaar thats some funny shizz there. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: My personal opinion stick with your french britts. :mrgreen: I havent seen a Griff thats worth the food it eats yet. :twisted:


----------



## JuddCT

DarKHorN said:


> Dude wasnt you wanting a French Brittany? Now your gettting talked into goin with a Griff or a Drahthaar thats some funny shizz there. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: My personal opinion stick with your french britts. :mrgreen: I havent seen a Griff thats worth the food it eats yet. :twisted:


Let's meet up in the fall. I'm sure I can prove you wrong.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

> I havent seen a Griff thats worth the food it eats yet.


Yet there are more Griffs that qualify for the Invitational as a percentage to breed registration than any other dog. (Correction to an earlier statement. Source- Gun Dog Magazine)

:O•-:



> Let's meet up in the fall. I'm sure I can prove you wrong.


Don't waste your time. This guy is just trolling. By his writing style, I have a sneaking suspicion that DarKHorN used to be known by a different name, at least on UBD.

Some people don't care about nose, bird smarts, retrieving, biddability, intelligence, or family friendliness. All they want to see is a dog running fast.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

I am just taking it all in. You know I have my reasons for looking at other breeds and I won't discount any of them. Thought I wanted a blonde in my youth and married a brunette, if she was a redhead she would have hooked me then too.


----------



## DarKHorN

BirdDogger said:


> I havent seen a Griff thats worth the food it eats yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet there are more titled Versatile Champion Griffs as a percentage to registered animals than any other breed. Funny how all those judges disagree with your opinion, ain't it?
> 
> :O•-:
> 
> [quote:25kzqj5l]Let's meet up in the fall. I'm sure I can prove you wrong.
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time. This guy is just trolling. By his writing style, I have a sneaking suspicion that DarKHorN used to be known by a different name, at least on UBD.

Some people don't care about nose, bird smarts, retrieving, biddability, intelligence, or family friendliness. All they want to see is a dog running fast.[/quote:25kzqj5l]
Show me a dog that can find a penned bird in a trial. Hell I think that my border collie could even prove to be a bird dog there. :mrgreen: 
You got 3 guesses and yes I use to hang out on UBD. o-|| o-||


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

DarKHorN, if your border collie can do the 100 yard blind retrieve and the double mark with a cripple, is steady to wing ,shot, and fall, retrieves to hand and honors other dogs' points...I'm dang impressed.


----------



## DarKHorN

Lol nope. Mr muledeer buy a gsp thats all you will ever need.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

You lost me at Dude...........


----------



## pheaz

DarKHorN said:


> Lol nope. Mr muledeer buy a gsp thats all you will ever need.


You and your dad are so hung up on GSP you would never even give another dog breed a chance. And when have you ever been on UBD? You stick with your ranging GSP, I will stick with my britts, and leave the griffs to birddogger.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

My best friend has a GSP. Great dog. Just not what I want. While I openly admit that I have not been around any wirehairs for any length of time it is quite obvious that they are a great dog as are Britts (which I have), Labs and GSP's and many, many others. I have yet to see any dog that was not bred to fill a role and when it is done correctly, each breed usually fills the given role quite well.

Humans on the other hand.............


----------



## bwhntr

I find it amusing that someone asks about a specific breed and for some strange reason people think they need to sell them on another breed. Lol. Breed Nazi's is what I call them. I have a friend or two that act that way. If they own it then it must be the best and EVERYBODY else needs one too. :roll: Lol. 

There are some vast differences between the Drat and the Griff. There are a few on here that could tell you better than I what those differences are. Good luck and don't let the breed nazi's get you down. :mrgreen:


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

:O•-:


----------



## bwhntr

DarKHorN said:


> Show me a dog that can find a penned bird in a trial. Hell I think that my border collie could even prove to be a bird dog there. :mrgreen:
> You got 3 guesses and yes I use to hang out on UBD. o-|| o-||


Really? I would LOVE to see your trial record? You must have really dominated every trial you showed up to. LMAO.... -_O-

Either you have NEVER ran in a trial and have no idea what your talking about, or you have run in trials and got your asshanded to you so now your too good to show up again, after all you hunt wild birds (and you make the assumption that trialers don't hunt wild birds). Everybody has their own game. I find your comments quite silly.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

My son and I drove to visit with huntall and birddogger yesterday. Birddogger actually left work on zero notice and met us at his house just to show us Scooby, already knowing that he doesn't have any available. Very impressed that any guy is willing to do something like to spend a few minutes with us. On top of that he has a great, great dog in Scooby.

That said we have decided to go with DD. Huntall had beautiful dogs as well and there is just something about the breed that really drew us in. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I honestly have seen very few dogs that I don't appreciate.

All of that said we are going to get one of Jason Wilde's pups out of his F litter from Bella and Auz. Once I saw that one was available I just didn't want to pass it up. My family is very excited. Me especially.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

> Yet there are more titled Versatile Champion Griffs as a percentage to registered animals than any other breed.


I thought the Pudel pointer held that distinction... -Ov-



> All of that said we are going to get one of Jason Wilde's pups out of his F litter


I have an E litter pup from Jason. Couldn't be more impressed with the talent of this dog.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

> I thought the Pudel pointer held that distinction...


Read this thread:

http://versatiledogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13851

GSP's are the true VC champs if you want sheer numbers. They also have the most dogs registered. There is something to be said for why so many people like the breed.

Hey, Mr. Muleskinner, you are getting a great dog yourself. You know that already. We had that chat yesterday. The DD's in our area really are top-notch dogs.


----------



## bwhntr

+1 1/8 on what Birddogger stated. To add to that Jason produces top notch dogs and is one of the best trainers in this state. You made a great choice.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

One thing I can say..........For all of the differing opinions there are on all breeds and the "opinion of facts" that I have read about a DD vs a GWP, I have heard and read very little that says any of them are bad dogs. I would expect anybody to love their breed the most. If I had heard otherwise it would make me question the owner more than the dog. I get the same questions when I hear anybody bad mouth other breeds. None of the breeders I have spoken with have taken any time to bad mouth any other breed. They have just told me why their breed was their favorite.

I certainly didn't drive 3 hours yesterday to see huntalls and birddogers dogs because of bad word of mouth. That goes a long way in representing the belief by many that both are great breeds and have great owners. There is always something that tips the scales for somebody. For me it was seeing videos and pics of Auz and Bella and the conversation that I had with Jason Wilde. I haven't even met the guy in person and I can tell that he as well as well as many of you are top shelf.

While I have zero experience with either breed, one thing I know for certain is that regardless of how much experience any breeder has there are some things that are a bit of a crap shoot. Subdominant and unwanted genes reside in everything alive. My brother in law has bred Akitas for over 30 years. While all of his dogs are very good, most don't become champions because they lack of something, somewhere. It doesn't make them a bad dog. 

I went the route earlier in life of buying a cheaper "back yard bred dog", a term I use very loosely since my brother in law has kicked out bunches of champions, and they have all been bred in his back yard facilities. I guess as opposed to others that apparently let them mate in the master bedroom or something. The reputable breeders have a reputation and charge more for their pups for good reason. It shouldn't take a bad experience to know why but that is too often the case.


----------



## DarKHorN

BirdDogger said:


> 3rd guess = Spicer?


Nope and to be honest i have never been on ubd. Im only in utah for a few days. I was just ribben but theres a few thin skins on here. Happy hunting all.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

It's OK, DarKHorN. I totally understand that some people don't like the way Griffons run. It's a slow lope, better for pheasants and grouse than covey birds for sure.

The thing is Mr. Muleskinner came to visit, we let my dog loose in a field, and within 2 minutes he was at what I ranged to be 187 yards. Is that acceptable hunting range? For most people it is.

Scooby stayed at mark on a retreiving session and took hand signals to to retrieve. The dog retreived a 12 lb. dummy with a swinging head, and he retreived it by the biggest part of the body, multiple times. Is that acceptable retreiving ability? My dogs bring back geese without hesitation, on land or water. My pups will do the same and I've got photographic evidence of that.

The dogs have been tested under judges' eyes and passed their tests. I've got ribbons and certificates and records with multiple organizations to prove it.

All of this Mr. Muleskinner witnessed. He didn't take some Internet hero's word for it. He came to see multiple breeder's dogs with his own eyes. Mr. Muleskinner bought his dog the right way. He went for the DD over the Griff and I totally respect that. The Griff is NOT the breed for everyone. It's the perfect breed for some, though. Myself included. I love my dogs and I love the way they hunt. We are very successful in the field. I'd welcome anyone who wants to watch the Griff hunt to my camp because I do believe the breed deserves more credit than it gets.

One final comment- I _have_ owned a direct daughter of an NFC, had her for 14 years. I would never actively seek to own a true all-age dog again. I could go for a medium range, dark liver roan GSP.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

all of that is true....... i could definitely see me owning a Griff someday. No doubt about it.


----------



## huntinco

Once you have owned a DD dog you will have very very hard time ever switching.


----------



## ducksarmy

I have a DD from jason wilde and his d litter great dog and smart sometimes to smart..but all dog breeds have great and awful dogs


----------



## goforbroke

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the griff. I am new to dogs. I purchased a griff 2 years ago. He has exceeded my expectations. Great nose. Range depends on cover. 50 to 200 yards. Great with family. I hope to hunt over him a lot more this year as I don't have a san Juan elk tag.

Great dogs come In All breeds. Love my griff.


----------



## billybob

I have hunted behind Griffs and DD, and I prefer Griffs for the type of hunting I do. I was on a wait list for one years ago, and got too anxious to wait any longer. So, I bought a Britt from a breeder that I knew and respected, and that me and my dad had bought from when I was a kid. In any event, I still want to get a Griff, and one day I will. For those of you that have Griffs that have commented on this thread, are your Griffs AKC or are they part of the WPGCA. I've seen both, and liked both. Do any of you Griff guys have a preference between these two lines?


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger

My Griffs are AKC registered and I love the heck out of them. I like their kind and gentle nature. I like their calm personality. I like their willingness to please. I love that Griffs hunt for the handler. I trust my animals to take good care of small children and to show not just patience with kids, but pleasure in being mauled by children. This is the Griff personality. They are definitely not as businesslike in their approach to life as the drahthaars I have known. Griffs are more silly like Labs, but milder in exhibited exuberance. 
I would own old Scooby Doo a thousand times over. He is an absolute joy. My wife feels the same way about my female. They have bonded so tightly that I can hardly get the female to leave my wife's side when they are together.


----------



## billybob

BirdDogger, that is exactly what I love about the Griffs I have been around. I'm gonna have to give you a call when my Britt gets a little bit older and I'm back in the market for a dog.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

My DD pups got tattooed last night. I'll be picking it out and bringing it home tomorrow.


----------

