# Materials and quality



## Davpmars (May 12, 2010)

My question here is pretty vague but I will try to simplify it.

Slowly I’m getting all my fly fishing gear over time a little here and a little there and now its time to start tying my own flies. How much does brand matter when buying tools such as the bobbin holder? What about materials like hooks and thread and hackle? 

I have pretty much got the idea that the material kits are a bad idea but would I be safe buying the individual materials from a good rated ebay seller?

As you can tell, I have a pretty strict budget.

thanks


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

The quality of the actual materials is not a big deal IMHO. The hooks are where you don't want to skimp. You buy bad hooks, you will loose fish.
look at KSL.com, there are several sets and items on there as well as the forums around here. Sportsmans Warehouse has some good prices on most of it.
I would decide what you want to tie before deciding where to get it.


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## kngfish (Jan 20, 2010)

If you’re on a strict budget and looking to save money, tying flies is not what you’re looking for!
Now if you’re looking to improve your overall satisfaction of fishing, it may be something more to look into. Trying to go cheep on materials (Hooks and Hackles etc.) is not going to save you in the long run, you get what you pay for type of thing! 
It may only seem like a dollar here and a dollar there but believe me it can become habitual and add up quick!
If you’re really not sure if it is something you’re going to stick with maybe a kit with all the tools is not a bad idea, then just purchase your materials separately. 
Good Luck


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> The quality of the actual materials is not a big deal IMHO. The hooks are where you don't want to skimp. You buy bad hooks, you will loose fish.
> look at KSL.com, there are several sets and items on there as well as the forums around here. Sportsmans Warehouse has some good prices on most of it.
> I would decide what you want to tie before deciding where to get it.


 Once you get in to tying and I said IN TO--------- Quality of materials is a HUGE thing.


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## Davpmars (May 12, 2010)

I guess then that skimping on materials will haunt me on the river. Some of the small shops around Utah can get really pricey for materials. Is there a safe way to buy stuff on line at a discount and still get quality materials? I see a lot of stuff on Ebay but I hesitate to buy it. Is there a brand or something that would be safe?


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

There are some very good web sites out there-
flyshop.com
feather-craft.com
whitewaterflies.com-
flytyersdungeon.com 
http://www.bearlodgeangler.com


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

As others have stated, you can buy cheeper tools and they will work just fine.
Just like a cheeper fly rod will catch fish and an expensive rod will catch fishermen, so goes tools like bobbins, sissors and even vices.

Where you don't want to skimp is on quality dry hackle necks.
I tried to go cheep and buy lower grade hackles and they were not very good. Brittle and very few hackles small enough to tie size 18 and 20 flies.

Hooks are the same.
There are some brands that are all right and will work but the better the grade, the less problems with hooks bending and breaking.
Sharpness is also affected.

You won't always save money when you tie flies but you will have flies in the size and color that you want.

Tying your own flies can also be very gratifying.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Yes, once you "really" get into tying, you will spend lots of $$ on materials. I don't regret it though. :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Let me beat this dead horse, but you will not save money tying flies. It's an urban legend that just isn't true. But it sure is a fun thing to do when you're not on the river/lake. 

I have to disagree with skimping on quality with tying tools though. There are quality tools out there that cost less, but don't buy crappy stuff. Dull scissors, vises that don't hold hooks well, bobbins that cut thread, etc are all a total and complete waste of money, no matter how much you saved on the purchase. Some materials aren't as important to get quality, but some are absolutely essential. 

So if you're on a strict budget, I'd suggest buying your flies until you can get the exact things you want for fly tying. Because it's not going to save you money, especially to start from scratch to get all your basic tools.


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## Davpmars (May 12, 2010)

Thanks for all your help.

I wouldn't be tying flies to save money - I just want to have the right flies at the right time but I don't want to buy the expensive materials when maybe used less expensive will due. I figured there are certain areas where I can get away with inexpensive stuff but it sounds like you get what you pay for no matter what.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

> I figured there are certain areas where I can get away with inexpensive stuff but it sounds like you get what you pay for no matter what.


 +1000. Cheap vises dont hold small hooks, crappy bobbins and whip finishers break thread, cheap scissors don't trim fine materials so your flies turn out ugly. Cheap hooks bend, break, or don't penetrate. Even some expensive hooks bend (Daiichi). If you plan on tying non beadhead nymphs then you can do it for a reasonable cost. If you plan on tying dries (especially small dries where quality hackle such as whiting is mandatory) or streamers and/or nymphs with beadheads or cones made with tungsten, you are going to pay a pretty penny. Just a pack of 20 tungsten beads will run you $6.50 to $7.50.


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

What flyguy7 said...

Also here is a short list

The Quality of the flies you make is very noticeable if you skimp on the following materials ie your fly tying skills will be very limited and your flies will look like crap. - Do not skimp on any of these materials
1. Vise
2. Scissors
3. Bobbin
4. Hooks - Mustad Signature series are actually not bad now, so you can semi skimp on those.
6. Hackles (all types ie Dry, Saddles, Soft Hackles etc) For Dry Fly Hackles don't buy a traditional cape. Get the Whiting Dry Fly Saddles, they are by far the best bang for your buck and are much easier to tie with.
7. Hairs (Elk and Deer)

Things you can skimp on
1. Dubbing, you can use what ever you want, I use yarn all the time, dog or cat hair works too.
2. Lights - this one is extremely important however. ALL fly tying lamps suck and are extremely over priced. Go to the DI and buy some used lamps. Go buy Daylight Florescent bulbs and use those instead of regular lights. Good light(s) don't need to cost more than 10 bucks. I use the same lights to tie with as I do to take my photos with. Being able to see what you are doing is huge.
3. Chenille - if you can find this in bulk, buy it up, it will last you forever
4. All materials found at flytyersdungeon.com - cheap material that is very high quality

Fly tying is a money pit and a very addicting one. You have been warned


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## cheech (Sep 25, 2007)

If Cheech was your brother in law would you ask him for advise? 

Good advise so far fellas, except for skimping on the tools. That is a sure fire way to have some metal objects flying across the room at breakneck speeds into the wall.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

cheech said:


> If Cheech was your brother in law would you ask him for advise?


If I was going after bass with a bait caster....yes. If I was tying flies....yes. If I was looking how to stop a free kick from Ronaldo....nope.


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## Davpmars (May 12, 2010)

cheech said:


> If Cheech was your brother in law would you ask him for advise?
> 
> Good advise so far fellas, except for skimping on the tools. That is a sure fire way to have some metal objects flying across the room at breakneck speeds into the wall.





Davpmars said:


> I guess then that skimping on materials will haunt me on the river. Some of the small shops around Utah can get really pricey for materials. Is there a safe way to buy stuff on line at a discount and still get quality materials?


Please no flying sissors, hooks, and don't break out the nunchuck skills! I remember a long time ago you told me about low quality nightmares. (I always end up doing what you suggest anyways)


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## flyfisher117 (Jun 29, 2009)

heres my thought. get a cheap 30 dollar vise from cabelas. it will get the job done. (so do cordless drills then hold hooks dang good.)(thats what i started on)

then get a cheap ceramic bobbin from sportsmans (8 bucks)

then use a pair of scisors u have around the house the finer the point the better. 

boom you are ready to tie.

now you can start out with the very well known flys like phesant tail nymphs and hairs ears nymphs. they use very cheap material. (even the expensive stuff is cheap) and they use the same exact hooks. nymph size 16 or smaller. 

wooly buggers are another cheap fly that dont have 70 dollar hackles. (bugger hackle is like 8 dollars for a decent sized bag..enough to tie a good 20-30 buggers sometimes)

then later as u get more funds you can upgrade everything.

it worked for me im 16 and have no source of income so i started out cheap (with a kit) and it worked great it got me started then over this past summer i worked for my grandparents and upgraded my vise and now im happy. i like tying nymphs and streamers because they are easier and cheaper so i can afford more of them and more varietys of them


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## troutscout (Feb 12, 2009)

Initially I didn't save money on flies but I sure do now. I rarely have to buying much of anything besides hooks. I just top things off when they get low. It's a fun hobby and I don't cringe when I loose a fly to the bushes. I started when I was 13 and bought everything on my own. I had what's considered a strict budget but I did fine. I wasn't able to buy everything all at once or tie every fly I wanted. I bought the materials for a few patterns and tied tons of them. After I had saved some more I moved to new patterns. Just like the rest of fly fishing, you can make do with what ever you have and can afford. Usually my cheap, scruffy looking flies catch more fish. The latest and greatest?? Fish don't care, people do.

^^ike


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

troutscout said:


> Initially I didn't save money on flies but I sure do now. I rarely have to buying much of anything besides hooks. I just top things off when they get low. It's a fun hobby and I don't cringe when I loose a fly to the bushes. I started when I was 13 and bought everything on my own. I had what's considered a strict budget but I did fine. I wasn't able to buy everything all at once or tie every fly I wanted. I bought the materials for a few patterns and tied tons of them. After I had saved some more I moved to new patterns. Just like the rest of fly fishing, you can make do with what ever you have and can afford. Usually my cheap, scruffy looking flies catch more fish. The latest and greatest?? Fish don't care, people do.
> 
> ^^ike


Very well put....


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## flyfish1096 (Oct 9, 2009)

I started tying my own flies a couple of yaers ago. My cycle usually tie in the winter fish the other seasons. I too have found that cheaper materials don't always fit what and the size you want to tie.


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