# red dot?



## Markthehunter88 (Nov 5, 2010)

How many of you use red dots? thinking about gettin one for my girlfriend on a wolf CVA


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Im not answering this question on a muzzy basis as I do not own a muzzy, but I do own a red dot and can tell you what I think.

Red dots are pretty neat for quick target acquisition, but it does have its drawbacks as well and you would want to weigh the pros and cons with buying one.

My observation with the red dot is that the dot will come in various sizes, this dot can start to cover a large area the further out you take a shot. In other words, the dot may cover 1" at 50 yards, but may cover 4" at 150 yards. This could be problematic if you needed a super precise shot. However, since the kill zone is fairly large, it may work out alright.

Since a red dot is electronic, you do run the risk of various malfunctions such as batteries dying, water damage, etc.

Red dots like any other optic need to be placed on the firearm they are designed for. In other words, dont buy a red dot designed for a .22 and then expect it to perform on a highpower rifle. 

Understand its limitations and benefits before buying one. My first red dot came with really convoluted expectations of grandeur that were quickly shattered when I realized what I was actually getting. I was hoping for some pinpoint accuracy like you would receive with crosshairs and that was far from the truth of the matter.

Benefit to the red dot? you can really lock onto a target quickly with a red dot. Although scopes are fairly quick for target acquisition, your mind has to process windage and elevation, whereas the red dot is easier to process in your mind's eye and you just know that the bullet hits where the dot is. So.... the rhetorical question for you is: do you think your girlfriend will need to make a super quick shot while hunting, or do you think that she will have a couple seconds to take a well aimed shot?

Last benefit of the red dot in my mind is one that isnt all that beneficial for your application. But it works amazingly well in low-light situations. At times that it is a bit tricky to get your scope to a point where you can see your cross hairs, the red dot stands out wonderfully.

Am I saying dont buy one? No. But see if you know anyone that will let you shoot one and see what you think because it is just enough money to spend that I would hate to hear that you are disappointed.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Red dot scopes are the miracle cure for inexperienced shooters. There is no need to close an eye or anything. Once you have it sighted in properly, the bullet will hit where the dot is. They excel in that critical time period right before dark. 

I agree that the red dot is not pinpoint accurate. I've killed a bunch of animals with mine on, though, and the shots have always been well placed. 

I also find that open sights are not pinpoint accurate at any real length of distance, at least not for me. The sight takes up too much space on the deer for it to be zeroed in on a bullseye. 

A rifle scope is the most accurate. The negative thing about a scope for a new shooter is the fact that 1x scopes make things look farther away rather than closer like on a magnified scope.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

BirdDogger said:


> A rifle scope is the most accurate. The negative thing about a scope for a new shooter is the fact that 1x scopes make things look farther away rather than closer like on a magnified scope.


Good point made here. I am a fan of fixed power 3x scopes (when applicable) because they provide a little magnification but give good eye relief as well. Just dont throw an ACOG on there :?


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

When I first started the dedicated hunter program about 10 years ago I bought a Knight MK85 .54 cal and put a Millet Red dot on it. I have killed a few deer in those 10 years with it and like has been said, it hits where the red dot is, it is quick aquisition and I probably have only had to readjust the site 2 or three times in those 10 years and I sight it in every year. I take youth groups shooting and it is easy for them to hit a target.

The problem is it is electronic so take a spare battery, I have left it on or bumped it on and ran the battery down but I always have one or 2 spares with me.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Bax* said:


> Good point made here. I am a fan of fixed power 3x scopes (when applicable) because they provide a little magnification but give good eye relief as well.


Interesting recommendation seeing that Utah law is as follows:

_"Muzzleloaders
Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-10
Muzzleloaders may be used during any big game hunt-except the archery hunt. To hunt big game with a muzzleloader, your muzzleloader must meet all of the following requirements...
• It must have open sights, peep sights or a *fixed non-magnifying 1x scope*."_

I'd get a regular scope... a handful of guys on this forum have recommended either the Traditions Hunter 1x (~$50) or the T/C Hawken Hunter 1x (~$150).


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Bax* said:


> Im not answering this question on a muzzy basis as *I do not own a muzzy*, but I do own a red dot and can tell you what I think.


As you can see Derek, I am answering on a limited knowledge base. I do not shoot muzzle loaders but weighed in on what I know. Was I recommending a 3x scope? NO. Just saying my preference on my experience with optics


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Bax* said:


> I am answering on a limited knowledge base.


Take a step back from the ledge there... I get it. However, if a guy were to interpret it as a recommendation (as I did - _my mistake_) he'd be in trouble.

So Mark, regardless of what's "known," "not known," or "recommended," if you're looking at putting a scope on a muzzleloader in Utah you NEED TO KNOW that State law does not permit powered scopes.


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

Im in the same boat I have shot open sights for years but its getting harder to see. I have tried 1x scopes and did NOT like them. I have shot an identical muzzle loader to mine with a millet scope and my dad has a Bushnell Holo sight on his. They both work well. I'm torn between the millet and the Bushnell 1x28 reddot. I looked at the vortex but they all have 4moa dots. Burris has a couple but their website doesn't seem to give much info and they won't respond to the 4 emails I have sent.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For us older muzzle loader hunters you might want to try a peep sight. Since I am here in Colorado where any scope isn't legal that is what I put on my T/C Triiumph and it workd quite well.


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

I honestly looked into a peep sight Critter. I shoot a Remington 700 ML and the front sight is HUGE. I have yet to find a reasonable priced front sight to go with the rear. All the sight sets I find seem very flimsy to me. But it is a great idea.


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## timberbuck (May 19, 2010)

See my posting on the "scope or no scope" thread below about my thoughts on red dot sights.

And I call bull on the stated "red dots are not pinpoint accurate"

I have shot sub MOA groups at 100 and 200 yards with red dot sights on muzzloaders and on several AR15 platform rifles. ( currently have two AR rifles and two muzzloaders with red dot sights). However, not all red dot sights are created equal.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Timberbuck, Im going to agree with you to an extent on you calling BS on what I had to say about red dots. But only to an extent.

Oddly enough I was thinking about this last night and was thinking about the size of the red dot. The one I use is a 6 MOA dot and I know that there are smaller ones available that will help with the reduction of group size. But I still disagree that they will provide the accuracy that a conventional crosshair provides.

However, I am open to arguments and evidence stating otherwise. I am 100% speaking from my experiences alone so I cannot say you are wrong but am purely disagreeing from my personal observation.

Agreed also that not all red dots are created equal. I am personally using a Trijicon red-dot which I paid through the nose for (just about $600!), and I can see a world of difference between the higher end models and the base models like NC Star. 

Just my $0.02


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## timberbuck (May 19, 2010)

Thats fair

Its not as easy to shoot good groups with a red dot as it is with magnification thats for sure. But at close ranges (200 yards or less) I have been able to shoot right up to the accuracy capabilities of the rifles I have had them mounted on.

You can be pretty good with a red dot. 

Shot a 2 inch even three shot group the other day with my new muzzy at 200 yards.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Its not as easy to shoot good groups with a red dot as it is with magnification thats for sure.


...and that's exactly what I meant. My red dot is just a cheap Tru Glo sight, but it works fine. Eventually that red dot takes up too much space on the target to accurately predict where the bullet will land. I would say my red dot is really only good out to maybe 150. Beyond that it's a crapshoot.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

timberbuck said:


> I have been able to shoot right up to the accuracy capabilities of the rifles I have had them mounted on.


You are probably a better shot than me though  :lol:


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