# OHV Crash



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

3 people injured in head-on OHV collision near Cedar Breaks


CEDAR CITY — Three people were injured in a head-on collision between two off-highway vehicles on an ATV trail near Cedar Breaks National Monument early Saturday evening. The incident was reported at approximately 5 p.m. on a trail in the Tippetts Valley area, southeast of Brian Head. The two...




www.stgeorgeutah.com








Cedar City News said:


> Lt. Jeff Humphries said the two vehicles were traveling in opposite directions on the two-track trail, which he described as being “saturated with water and very muddy.”
> 
> “Both vehicles took a blind curve at approximately 40 miles an hour and were unable to stop due to conditions,” Humphries told Cedar City News.
> 
> ...





Cedar City News said:


> However, its driver was confirmed to have been driving under the influence, he said.
> 
> “The DUI was not a contribution to the accident,” Humphries added.


??

Scary deal. 40mph on a dry road is too fast. 40mph on a "saturated with water and very muddy" road is asking for trouble. The contradictory statement is confusing. How could DUI not be a contributing factor if the driver was under the influence.


what concerns me any more is just the shear number of people out on ATVs anymore. I makes me wonder what might happen if me and my family are out on a ride -- are we in danger of the next non-DUI contributing driver under the influence coming around a blind corner on a muddy road doing 40mph?


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Sad to see that is really has become an issue. I understand people want to enjoy themselves and go for a ride in their buggy, but trails are being destroyed and drivers are more and more reckless each year.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

PBH said:


> The contradictory statement is confusing. How could DUI not be a contributing factor if the driver was under the influence.


This bugs me for so many reasons. Mostly, a law enforcement officer calling this an "accident." Let's be clear here: If you drink alcohol or take any impairing drugs and then choose to get behind the wheel of a vehicle, anything that happens after that is not "accidental" at all. It was entirely preventable. We call these crashes and collisions, not accidents. I hate that word.

Even if they were not under the influence of impairing substances, I'd argue that what PBH said was true: their actions were reckless driving that way under those conditions, particularly on a blind curve, as reported in the story. "Accidents" are when something happens that was not preventable. Drugs and alcohol take things out of the "accident" realm, as does sheer recklessness.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Wait, no I won't. If you've had anything to drink at all, don't drive. Impairment starts at your first drink, whether you feel it or not. If you're doing drugs, don't drive. Ever. End of story. Now I'll get off my soapbox.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

This reminds me of the last time that I was up on Monroe Mountain. 

I was headed south in a F350 when I approached a blind corner. Then here came a SXS with a very young kid driving it around it on my side of the road. Granted these roads are not that wide to begin with but I was as far to the right as I could get when they came around the corner and came very close to hitting me head on. The kids mom was sitting in the passenger seat and her eyes bugged out when all she could see was my trucks grill. We missed by inches. 

But a major problem is enforcement of the rules that exist. There isn't enough county sheriffs and or other law enforcement to handle the increase of ATV traffic on the roads much less the paved ones. It would be interesting if they threw up a check point on a weekend and just see how many are driving impaired, or under age for the size of the machine among other things.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Critter said:


> It would be interesting if they threw up a check point on a weekend and just see how many are driving impaired, or under age for the size of the machine among other things.


Or if they've completed the online education course that EVERY single person operating an OHV on public lands will have had to complete to operate that OHV starting in January...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> Or if they've completed the online education course that EVERY single person operating an OHV on public lands will have had to complete to operate that OHV starting in January...


I haven't heard about this, is it for everyone or age restricted?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Critter said:


> I haven't heard about this, is it for everyone or age restricted?


I emphasized "EVERY" for a reason, critter! 






HB0180







le.utah.gov


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I did an FPO ride along years ago and we pulled over a mother wearing a helmet on an ATV while she held her 9 month old in her arm. She was going faster than we were on the main road. I'll never forget that level of reckless disregard for life.

Too many people get complacent with the privilege and risks of driving.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> what concerns me any more is just the shear number of people out on ATVs anymore. I makes me wonder what might happen if me and my family are out on a ride -- are we in danger of the next non-DUI contributing driver under the influence coming around a blind corner on a muddy road doing 40mph?


This to me is the two edged sword that has arisen from the popularity of both OHV's and the trail systems that have been set up. For years, when I was in the "435", locals constantly fretted about the gubmint enforcing closures of the jeep and OHV trails, sometimes with justification. The trail systems then were developed and have become immensely popular and a positive economic force in some communities. This development makes FS/BLM trail closures far less likely. It also brings about new problems such as what is discussed here. The answer would "seem" to be more enforcement and regulation so tragedies like above are less frequent.

Would the locals and the OHV community allow that politically?


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

The Whole key and root cause of the “accident“ was the 40mph deal. 
I can’t believe the way so many of them fly around on those trails. It drives me nuts. I personally like to putt putt around and look for animals and see the sights. I won’t even ride up on the road across the top going to Kolob anymore, unless I’m in a truck.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I just have to shake my head at the stuff I see not only from ATVs, but pickups and everything else on mountain roads. People flying around blind corners at ridiculous speeds taking up all the room on the road they care to. It's like they think they are on a closed course and there is no chance they will encounter anybody coming from the opposite direction. Look at all our threads bitching about how crowded the mountains are getting. Not sure why anybody wouldn't expect any company. I have had some pretty close calls with these [email protected] in recent years.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

backcountry said:


> I did an FPO ride along years ago and we pulled over a mother wearing a helmet on an ATV while she held her 9 month old in her arm. She was going faster than we were on the main road. I'll never forget that level of reckless disregard for life.
> 
> Too many people get complacent with the privilege and risks of driving.


I saw something similar a couple weekends ago. A motorcycle pulling out of the Diamond Fork campground with an adult up front, an adult in the back, and an 8ish year old looking girl sandwhiched in the middle. No helmets on anybody.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I emphasized "EVERY" for a reason, critter!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. Is there any plan to advertise this provision? It can't hurt but I doubt it will help much.

One thing for sure a lot of people like to ride fast anymore. Maybe the technology committee can work on speed governors next.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

2full said:


> I won’t even ride up on the road across the top going to Kolob anymore, unless I’m in a truck.


I don't even drive my truck across the top any more. I just go down and through Virgin. Oil the whole way.

(Cedar Mountain is turning into a zoo)


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I pay for OHV insurance on my machines and the price has gone up considerably in the last few years due to the number of accidents that are occurring.

sad deal for all involved.

be careful out there


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

middlefork said:


> Nice. Is there any plan to advertise this provision?


Not sure. It's probably like any other law the legislature passes: It is the expectation of the public to know the laws. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. $150 fine if you operate an OHV without having taken the proper course. 

This is my good deed for the day, making you all aware of it! 🤣


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The problem is that any dirt road in a area where there are designated ATV trails is turning into a zoo. 

That last time I was on the Monroe they had a rally or ATV ride going on that started in Antimony and ended over in Kingston. You could see the route by just looking for the dust cloud. Most were running at close to 40mph across all these dirt roads and it was hard to tell if they could even see the taillights of the SXS that was in front of them. They took over the parking lot at Upper Box Creek Reservoir to the point that you couldn't even think of parking if you wanted to try to fish. This went on from around 8am until later in the evening as they wound around to head back to civilization. 

This was going on during the weekend of the buck muzzle loader hunt. 

I've seen the same thing up on the Manti and over on the Plateau.


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

Critter said:


> The problem is that any dirt road in a area where there are designated ATV trails is turning into a zoo.
> 
> That last time I was on the Monroe they had a rally or ATV ride going on that started in Antimony and ended over in Kingston. You could see the route by just looking for the dust cloud. Most were running at close to 40mph across all these dirt roads and it was hard to tell if they could even see the taillights of the SXS that was in front of them. They took over the parking lot at Upper Box Creek Reservoir to the point that you couldn't even think of parking if you wanted to try to fish. This went on from around 8am until later in the evening as they wound around to head back to civilization.
> 
> ...


This is an every year thing on the Monroe come muzzy hunt.


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

Vanilla said:


> Not sure. It's probably like any other law the legislature passes: It is the expectation of the public to know the laws. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. $150 fine if you operate an OHV without having taken the proper course.
> 
> This is my good deed for the day, making you all aware of it! 🤣


Most of our public land in southern Utah will not be affected by this law because they don't enforce any of the OHV laws already in place.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't expect this law to be enforced much at all, if I'm being honest. It wasn't something that law enforcement asked for, by any means. But I know I will be doing the course regardless of whether I think I'll get caught or not by ignoring it.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

PBH said:


> I don't even drive my truck across the top any more. I just go down and through Virgin. Oil the whole way.
> 
> (Cedar Mountain is turning into a zoo)


I don't have any choice.......from Kolob to my place is quite a ways. And would mean even more dirt roads than I have now. Once I turn off the "scenic byway" it cuts about 95% off the traffic for me. 

And yes, Cedar mountain is turning into a zoo. 

Up on top around Midway and Cedar Breaks is a whole lot worse. 
I know a couple of you will be upset, but ........
About 80% of the lisc plates are Nevada.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

There's no doubt Nevadans love Cedar Mountain. 

The last time I was up at Yankee Meadow a group of 10+ side by sides had taken up the entire boat ramp by parking on it. They did so while two of us had boats we were prepping and a third trying to get out of the water. Come to think of it most of them were also drinking. 

I actually enjoy ATVs and could see getting a used one way in the future. But a minority of the users leave a bad impression on other people sharing the land. .


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

backcountry said:


> But a minority of the users leave a bad impression on other people sharing the land. .


Insert any group of people into this and it would be equally applicable. We as people are mostly good and mostly do the right things. But there is a minority of us out there that are not good and do not do the right things, regardless of what groups or labels we attach to them.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> Or if they've completed the online education course that EVERY single person operating an OHV on public lands will have had to complete to operate that OHV starting in January...


This world is getting so stupid… 

more hands out, wanting your money is all this equates to IMO. Like any hunting ethics course we take on line… idiots will always be idiots. Nothing will stop that. Not even a new license plate and registration on an OHV vehicle


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

MooseMeat said:


> This world is getting so stupid…
> 
> more hands out, wanting your money is all this equates to IMO. Like any hunting ethics course we take on line… idiots will always be idiots. Nothing will stop that. Not even a new license plate and registration on an OHV vehicle


While I agree this law is stupid, the course will be free. So it's hard to argue it's all about the money. I envision this being a lot like the shed gathering course. It won't fix the people the are stupid and just won't follow the rules, but it may help some that are a bit ignorant and willing to learn and do the right thing.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

2full said:


> I know a couple of you will be upset, but ........
> About 80% of the lisc plates are Nevada.


Upset or not, it's the truth.

Some additional truths: 
Las Vegas population is larger than Salt Lake City.
Los Angeles population is larger than the entire Wasatch Front.
Cedar City is closer to Las Vegas than SLC.

Where do you think the closest mountain getaway for Las Vegas is? Yep -- Cedar Mountain. In fact, it's closer to LV than SLC.
And, if you want legitimate trout fishing, the closest answer for Los Angeles? Southern Utah.

We are LV and southern California's playground. We reap the rewards from the money spent -- I'd love to see the numbers of licenses sold to Nevadans compared to Utahns. 

No matter if we like it or not -- Nevada isn't going home any time soon.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Vanilla said:


> Or if they've completed the online education course that EVERY single person operating an OHV on public lands will have had to complete to operate that OHV starting in January...


I wish there was a ‘boat ramp etiquette’ course required of all watercraft users.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

MrShane said:


> I wish there was a ‘boat ramp etiquette’ course required of all watercraft users.


Should be part of registering them lol


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> Upset or not, it's the truth.
> 
> Some additional truths:
> Las Vegas population is larger than Salt Lake City.
> ...



It is nothing to get upset about and the truth. In that period of life when I was one of *them*, I came up too. (although I didn't own an ATV and diversified my fishing a fair bit ) With population growth in both Clark County and Southern Utah, along with the ever present SoCal, it isn't a surprise that these areas are getting more crowded. And there are more problems. So what is to be done? 

As I see it, you guys living down there can have a significant influence in management, or can just go on complaining about it. If more enforcement is allowed, and rules enacted, some sanity may prevail but it is obvious that the local county sheriffs are undermanned and not the answer. That means allowing the Forest Service to do more enforcement. And historically, that means an outcry of oppressive gubmint overreach from the local politicians. It is fine if liburl Louie and Vegas Vinny get ticketed, but what about when some good ol' boys from town get written up by the FS? We all know what has happened in the past. 

Is the problem bad enough to change folks mind?


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I see a lot of checking going on for registrations and licenses and helmets for those under 16. Almost more than I see on the highway getting to the trail head. Without an outright incident involving bodily injury or property damage I'm not sure how they would enforce a reckless driving or driving too fast for conditions type of situation.

But in some cases response times can be measured in hours when cell phone coverage is non existent for medical. I imagine an officer making a DUI arrest would be using up a lot of time and resources if the location is remote.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Catherder said:


> It is nothing to get upset about and the truth. In that period of life when I was one of *them*, I came up too. (although I didn't own an ATV and diversified my fishing a fair bit ) With population growth in both Clark County and Southern Utah, along with the ever present SoCal, it isn't a surprise that these areas are getting more crowded. And there are more problems. So what is to be done?
> 
> As I see it, you guys living down there can have a significant influence in management, or can just go on complaining about it. If more enforcement is allowed, and rules enacted, some sanity may prevail but it is obvious that the local county sheriffs are undermanned and not the answer. That means allowing the Forest Service to do more enforcement. And historically, that means an outcry of oppressive gubmint overreach from the local politicians. It is fine if liburl Louie and Vegas Vinny get ticketed, but what about when some good ol' boys from town get written up by the FS? We all know what has happened in the past.
> 
> Is the problem bad enough to change folks mind?


I'd expect this incident to cause a sort of USFS, and possibly county, show of force in the next few weeks, especially Labor Day weekend. It doesn't reflect well on any of them for incidents like this to happen.

A lot of my friends in the Dixie have retired or moved on. The old rec manager spent a lot of social capital developing the current ATV trails to reduce conflict (riding across meadows, etc). Always pros and cons to such choices, ie more trails = attract more people. But it was inevitable. The mountain is more crowded but I tend to see less questionable ATV behavior away from the primary trails now. 

The Dixie has been getting some negative national attention with the trail/road spraying program so I wonder if an incident like this could catalyze some long term changes because of bad optics?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Who exactly do you want to patrol these hundreds and thousands of miles of off-road trails in that one national forest boundary alone? The county isn’t going to send their resources up to patrol OHV use on federal land when they can barely keep up down off the mountain.

How big of areas do you think forest service rangers cover? And how effective could one be proactively looking for driving violations in that big of an area? Do we really want “traffic enforcement” in the hills? I know how much people gripe about getting a speeding ticket on I-15, think about if the feds started enforcing those in the hills. In southern Utah.

Yeah, good luck!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Who exactly do you want to patrol these hundreds and thousands of miles of off-road trails in that one national forest boundary alone? The county isn’t going to send their resources up to patrol OHV use on federal land when they can barely keep up down off the mountain.
> 
> How big of areas do you think forest service rangers cover? And how effective could one be proactively looking for driving violations in that big of an area? Do we really want “traffic enforcement” in the hills? I know how much people gripe about getting a speeding ticket on I-15, think about if the feds started enforcing those in the hills. In southern Utah.
> 
> Yeah, good luck!



That is another way to ask the question I posed. I believe I said the exact same thing about county resources. However, Federal resources at least potentially could be enhanced. Yes, it still wouldn't be robust, but it could at least be an improvement. As you know however, what has been the consistent local response to any assertion of Federal power/enforcement in the "435"? It hasn't been favorable, to put it mildly. 

"Do we really want "traffic enforcement" in the hills? " It seems like the original complaints/comments on this thread are asking for something to be done, whatever that may entail. So maybe so. 
Or maybe we all just like to grumble. 🤷‍♂️


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

We all want “something” done, until we don’t.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Ideally, we'd have laws and policy that were enforced. I'd prefer to see egregious insults to both punished and the average person interested in cooperating to keep our mountains enjoyable let off with a warning.

But ideals aren't reality. Our agencies are underfunded and understaffed. Some people know this and reek havoc. 

I'd ultimately like to see the USFS funded and staffed well enough to be a real presence on our hills. The same way I like seeing COs making a presence on boat ramps or the hard deck. Most of us are legit and are fine talking with them for 5 minutes if it means less waste, trash or in this case accidents. I'd really love to see the meadow drivers and fish poachers have to at least consider looking over their shoulder before proceeding.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For enforcement with the number of officers that the Forest Service and BLM have on hand all they need to do is to pick a popular area when a event is going on, then just set up a roadblock on one of the routs. After a few warnings or tickets are handed out others will start to get the message. Same with the DWR/State Parks officers. If they don't have enough to do the job correctly just start doing spot checks, they don't have to be running all over the mountain looking for where the problems are.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

backcountry said:


> Most of us are legit and are fine talking with them for 5 minutes if it means less waste, trash or in this case accidents.


I agree with this...until we're not. 



Critter said:


> For enforcement with the number of officers that the Forest Service and BLM have on hand all they need to do is to pick a popular area when a event is going on, then just set up a roadblock on one of the routs.


Checkpoints are not as easy to set up as just deciding to do one, but they can be done. They have moderate deterrent effect. High visibility saturation patrols are more impactful on behavior, but that is where resources come in.


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