# lab help



## spork40 (Oct 8, 2007)

i have a chocolate lab that will be 2 in april and i need some training advice and help. i am really struggling with him at the beginning of each training session. he is so hyper and excited he will not sit still to put his collar on or calm down at all. once i get him on a leash and out to start training he does fine it is just the beginning where he will not settle down. that same behavior makes it hard for kids to be around him or some adults because he gets so excited at someone new and new attention. also another thing that i have wondered about is his licking. he is a spastic licker anytime your hand is within a foot of him. i know labs are very attention oriented but i need some help getting things under control.

also, some background info. his main purpose is a waterfowl and upland game dog and does really well at both. i would like to have him more family friendly but have also wondered if that is counter productive. i have heard that some breeds do well at one or the other but not both. i have had lots of exposure to all spaniel breeds but never a lab.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Short tie down training.

Heel Training.

Force Fetch Training.

In that order.

It will teach him to settle down and pay attention.


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

Do you keep him in a kennel outside?


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

first, let me say labs make great upland and waterfowl dogs and can do both at the same time. making them a family dog wont hurt anything on the hunting side of things as long as you keep working with the dog.

you mentioned "collar". i assume you meant e-collar?

i have had to deal with tons of dogs like this over the years and the common thing I have found with all of them is their obedience training is lacking in some area. the reason i asked if you had a collar is this will make a huge difference with the dog once the dog has gone through an obedience/collar conditioning training program.

some dogs are really hyper and excited to work but that is no excuse for them to be a spazz. dogs like this need more in depth obedience training than calmer dogs to help get them focused and they are almost always going to be e-collar dogs. once you get the dog on the same page, he will begin to listen and do better but it sounds like you and him have different ideas about what is acceptable behaviour and that all comes back to basic obedience training.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

To make a hunting dog out of him...what Tex said.
To make a mult-purpose dog out of him...what Sprig said.

On a side note- reward only calmness. Excited, out of control dog gets no retrieves or other rewards. Calm, seated dog gets the retrieve. Excited dog doesn't darken the kennel door. Seated dog may come out. Do you see the pattern? Sit him for everything. Gradually extend the period of time you keep him seated until he's comfortable staying at sit all day. Only then will this be a fun dog to have in the duck blind.


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## gunrunner (Feb 1, 2008)

Ryfly said:


> Do you keep him in a kennel outside?


Good question, I have one of these all go never slow down labs and OB training was a key in getting her to calm down. But also the more time she spends in the house and with the family the calmer she gets and the better citizen she is becoming.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Sprig said what I basically abbreviated.

If a dog isn't paying attention, he won't learn a thing. Go figure! Kids don't learn in school when they're not paying attention, dogs are no different. The FIRST thing you do is get his attention. That usually comes with strong, consistent, staunch obedience training. ie, tie down, heel, force fetch. I might add that it's important that your pupil has the body AND the brain to handle this type of stimulation. Usually 6 months old to a year and a half depending on the breed and the personality of the dog. They're ALL different! You said your dog was two. Perfect! He is nothing more to me than a nice pile of motivated moldable clay! And speaking of stimulation, put the e-collar away until he knows what he's doing. Then break it out and use it to keep him honest.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

If the dog is an outside "kennel" dog", try taking it on a walk before starting your training. My dogs ALWAYS pay better attention when they have had a chance to walk off some of their pent up energy.

Dogs learn from consistancy and repetition. Train the same every day and the dog will soon catch on. Lastly I am a big fan of a heeling stick. One quick snap on the azz with that and my dog is sitting still and I have his full attention. It was a great tool in getting my pup I am training now to sit still for me while I put his pinch collar and training lead on. If he would try to jump up, run, around, or just wiggle away while putting on his collar, a quick tap would remind him that he is supposed to sit still while I do that.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

You're describing my lab to a T! He's a great dog though. Very high energy, but man is he ever fun to watch. His drive is incredible. Your job is to take that drive and exuberance and channel it--bridle it.

Work on Come (or Here), Sit, and Heel. Introduce force, including Force to Here. Don't use the ecollor more than needed--the heeling stick and denying the reward (the retrieve, etc), is often more fruitful. If you push too hard or lose your patience and punish the dog for your lack of training, then you'll ruin it and kill its drive.

Remember, dogs learn by attrition. If you are consistent in daily training, despite seeing no progress, eventually the dog will give up and then things will begin to happen. Most people lose patience and give up long before the dog will, hence the plethora of untrained, disobedient dogs people stick in their back yard and forget.

If the dog won't sit for you to put the ecollar on, chain it up, walk away, and come back five minutes later. Repeat until it gives up and lets you put it on. As soon as you get it on, lots of praise (GOOD DOG) and unchain it to let it run (it's always a good idea to air your dog before a training session). That's the reward. No action, no reward. Soon he'll jump with excitement when he sees you coming with the ecollar.

Use the heeling stick to work on Sit and Heel. Don't have one? Go to IFA and get one of those buggy whips, cut it to the desired length (hold it and point it to the ground and cut so it just doesn't touch the ground), and seal the cut end with glue, liquid plastic, tape, whatever. Your dog will soon learn that when you have the heeling stick, you mean business.

Remember, a tired dog is a good dog.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> Remember, a tired dog is a good dog.


May be the best quote I've heard all day. 

The same can be said about training any animal. Bratty children too! When I was a farrier and had a horse that wouldn't stand I'd just tell the owner, "what Sparkey here needs is some good old fashioned wet blanket therapy." :twisted: Works every time. :wink:


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

Another thing I like to do is make my dog sit and be calm before it is allowed to eat. My dog is told told to sit every morning and then I put her food out (which she can see). I then return to getting ready for the day and after a few minutes release her to eat.

She knows that if she gets up early she will go without food for sometime (usually 4 hours until I get back for lunch) and is pretty good about calming down when told to sit.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Boys, we need to get together and write a book! As we've each put our thoughts into this post I realized that I agree with and practice what everybody has written. I always seem to post the first thing that comes to mind, though, and my advice winds up incomplete. There are some knowledgeable bird dog people around here. We could make some $$ if we put our heads together and wrote everything down.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Great idea! I already have the name for our book. "101 ways to train your dog"  

It really is a good idea. I've always said that my training techniques are a culmination of what I've learned from several people and several sources over several years. After 25 years and many different dogs I've come up with a pretty good strategy that works for me. A book filled with hundreds of different ideas would be great for the guy just getting started as well as the veteran who thinks he may have seen it all.

I'm in.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I would suggest an e-book or DVD as opposed to an actual book. I would be interested in gleaning knowledge from such a diverse group of dog trainers.


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## spork40 (Oct 8, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Short tie down training.
> 
> Heel Training.
> 
> ...


 can you expound on these?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

spork40 said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > Short tie down training.
> ...


Short tie down: Drive a stake in the ground with a two foot chain and a snap. Snap the dog to the chain and leave him alone for two hours. He'll fight and tug and yap till you'll think he's going to kill himself, and then all at once he'll settle down and relax. You're teaching the dog that just because he's out of the kennel doesn't mean he needs to act like a retard and jump all over the place. It also teaches the dog that being tied down and sitting in one place for a long time won't kill him.

Heel training: Once he's used to being tied to something, tape your mouth shut and take him for a walk. Use a 20 foot lead and a good stout choke chain. When he runs off to go look at what ever just got his attention, you wait till there is almost no slack in the lead and at that moment you go the other way hard and fast. If he doesn't yelp, you didn't get his attention. He'll come running back towards you and in a second or two something else will grab his interest and he'll streak off again. POP! suddenly he's starting to figure out that it doesn't hurt when he goes the same way you're going. Before long he'll be right at your side waiting for your next move with perked ears and wide eyes. You have just taught that dog to heal AND pay attention at the same time and you didn't utter a single word! Now that he's heeling naturally introduce the command "heel" and he'll understand exactly what you mean.

Force Fetch: Now that he's used to being tied down, and is paying attention, you can teach this animal to deal cards if you want to. Thats when the force fetch comes in. Retrieving is never an "option" it should be mandatory. The force fetch teaches this as well as a ton of other good things the dog will need to know to be a worthy parter in the field and a pleasure to hunt with. The force fetch also stimulates the dog to be more driven in all that he does. Weather it be retrieving, finding cripples, tracking, flushing, swimming, etc, etc, etc.

Along with these three things there are other things you no doubt want to teach your dog, Sit, stay, whoa, down, come, kennel, handling in the field, hand signals, and on and on... This foundation is just that, a foundation to work from.

Hope that all makes sense.


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## spork40 (Oct 8, 2007)

that makes perfect sense. thanks everyone for their input and advice.


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## awbmab (Aug 9, 2008)

At what age do you do these?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

awbmab said:


> At what age do you do these?


A dog has to be old enough to handle the pressure of intense training, both physically and mentally. I pretty much let a pup be a pup for the fist year of it's life. Usually along about 10 months to 18 months that pup will start "showing you his ass" Not paying attention to you any more, running off with out regard to you, pressing the envelope... Now is the time to put the screws to him. Every dog is different, and they all mature at different speeds. You have to feel the pup out and start when you think he's ready.


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## Steve Shaver (Mar 9, 2008)

I start training my pups when I get them at 7 weeks. For the first four or five months they dont even know they are being trained. They are taught to be good citizens right from the start. Being unruley jumping up licking etc are discouraged. I used to start formal obedience around 4 months old but now I wait till about 6 months. By 10 months the dog is force fetched collar conditioned and very obedient. The longer you let bad habits continue the more ingrained they get and are harder to fix. They also learn bad habits quicker than good ones.


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