# Dogs got away, need help picking a new breed



## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

well, about a month ago my 2 pointers got out my yard by breaking the wire fence away from my house! You'd swear I had 2 pit bulls the way the fence looked when I came home. My wife gave them baths that morning and fogot to put the collors back on so no tags. I'm thinking someone picked them up and kept them, atleast that makes me feel better than thinking they ran till they got hit or starved!!

Anyway after working with them I realized that the english pointer is not the hunting breed for me. I want to hunt grouse in the mountains and pheasant in the marshes. So those pointers just worked WAY to far to hunt those birds.
I have looked around and am thinking of a spaniel. I don't know if I need a flushing dog or a pointing dog? I have hunted behind my dad's springer and it was a blast watching her. The only thing I didn't like was how nervous and smelly she was at home!!
So, I want to hunt mainly grouse up in the mountains like around Monte Cristo and places like that. 
I know of a few pheasant spots in the phrag on some of the waterfowl management areas. 
I might make a trip to west desert and go after a chukar but I'm not to concerned about them, mainly want grouse 1st, pheasant 2nd and chukars as an option just for something new.

Like I said the places I'm hunting are thick and I really want a close working dog, I know that means more boot work for me but I'm 27 and don't mind it. I don't have the ability to train a far working dog to listen perfect and always come. So I'd like a breed that is going to want to stay close in the first place. 

I'm thinking either a brit or a springer, are there any other dogs that hunt in the same fashion? I was told to get a gordon setter but a lot of others said they can be hard headed and wilful. I really want to take my time and get the right breed this time. I'm not going to get one till the fall so I have plenty of time for looking around.

Lets hear it and I know I'm starting a fight by asking which is a better heavy cover dog!!

Maybe it is all for the better, I will end up with the dog that I can really hunt with and maybe someone who hunts the open desert found 2 awesome pointers that he can hunt with!! Like I said, I'll keep thinking that so I feel a little better about it!!!

Thanks guys!!


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

The Brittany stays close and is the best family pet you could find. the down side is, a strainger is just a friend he hasn't met yet, and mine run away a lot. but they always come home when it gets dark. //dog// //dog//


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

My next dog will be a Brittany.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

I probably won't have a next dog but if I did I would have the same **** thing I have now- a PP.
I wish I knew about them when I came out of college I would never had anything else.
I have had labs the entire time and still have 1 now. But I can't think of a category that I would rate dogs on that PP isn't #1 is every one- that's based on dogs I have had and been around over my years.
He's a family dog bar none.
He has a nose that is as good as anything I have seen.
He can be a water dog.
He is a great pheasant/Grouse dog. ( Mid range hunter)
I'm extremely biased on him but he has given me every reason to be.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Never seen one of those but heard about them. Goat any pics of your dog??


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

Take a look at the French Britt they can be a lot of fun. The American will also do what you have described.

Might want to look into the WPG as well. They are close working, and find birds. The only problem is you have to look at them :wink: .


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Might want to look into the WPG as well. They are close working, and find birds. The only problem is you have to look at them :wink: .


That's it. I owe you one now :evil: .

Take this!








And this!








And one of these! 








And the raspberry!








All the dogs mentioned will take care of your needs, hoghunter. Just make sure you have the fence repaired before you get the dog. :wink:


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Yeah the brit is looking better and better. do they stink though. I know the springer my dad had smelled like a cow patty no matter what. 

Also is a pointing dog better than a flushing dog for thick grouse land? I'm thinking if the dog points you don't have to stay as ready to shoot cause you'll have some warning. If it is a flusher I'm thinking you never know when that dog is going to jump a bird!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

redleg said:


> The Brittany stays close and is the best family pet you could find. the down side is, a strainger is just a friend he hasn't met yet, and mine run away a lot. but they always come home when it gets dark. //dog// //dog//


Is your dog on a mission to get out of is it just because it is pretty easy for him to get lose? My dogs were on a mission to get out and go chase ducks at the park!! I couldn't believe they broke a whole in a welded wire fence!!
My yard will be super secure next time and if that dog starts trying to get out it will be time to electrify the bottom of the fence!! I'm not losing another good friend!!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> > Might want to look into the WPG as well. They are close working, and find birds. The only problem is you have to look at them :wink: .
> 
> 
> That's it. I owe you one now :evil: .


You know I love Scooby.

The way a dog smells has a lot to do with what it is being fed I don't think the breed will make a big difference in how the smell.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Texscala said:


> BirdDogger said:
> 
> 
> > > Might want to look into the WPG as well. They are close working, and find birds. The only problem is you have to look at them :wink: .
> ...


That makes sence because they feed her the cheapest bag they can find at wall-mart!!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

My friend had a springer who ended up being very aggressive with his kids; the vet said that it was a result of inbreeding. My dad had one once; the stupidest dog I have ever seen, literally. Put me down for one against the springer.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

Brittanies are a great breed. Good pets also. You might look into an English Setter as well. Personally I would prefer a pointer for grouse hunting, as it gives you a little time to catch up and get ready for the flush, but whatever floats your boat.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm thinking it is going to be a brit! If the springer works a little far I'm screwed if it jumps a bird. If the brit goes a little far it is no big deal as long as they don't do like my english pointers and run 300 yards away!!

I'd really like to see a brit work though before I get one. Is there any kind of trials or something where I could see a dog in action and know if it is right for me?

Thanks guys!!


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

I went up Chukar hunting this fall and sat on a knoll and watched across a valley 2 guys coming up the other side of the mountain. One had a lab and the other a brit. That brit was something else to watch cover ground- really was an enjoyment to see----- not my all around dog but watching it work that day made that day.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> I'm thinking it is going to be a brit! If the springer works a little far I'm screwed if it jumps a bird. If the brit goes a little far it is no big deal as long as they don't do like my english pointers and run 300 yards away!!
> 
> I'd really like to see a brit work though before I get one. Is there any kind of trials or something where I could see a dog in action and know if it is right for me?
> 
> Thanks guys!!


There will be a NSTRA trial on March 20 in Roosevelt. I am going for the exact reason you mentioned. I want to see some Brits work!! I know of a couple that are running that weekend. Also Kenny Glassok (sp?) on here runs brittanys. Oh and dont feed your good new hunting dog that walmart crap!
http://www.nstra.org/
http://www.nstra.org/utah.html


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

A brit would be a great choice. 

As you can see in my pic, I have a springer. He is one of the smartest dogs I've dealt with. He is a perfect family dog which is top on my priority list. He'll walk my girls to the bus stop and after they get on the bus, he'll come home and sit on the front porch until my wife lets him in. I play with him in the front yard all the time and he does not run off at all which is great. 

As for birds, I've had him on pheasants and I really couldn't ask for anything better. Especially considering I haven't spent near the time on bird training as I should. He keeps about 20 yards in front of me and works cover exceptionally well and returns to my side on voice command. I am a huge fan of the springer. He doesn't seem to have the stink you've described - probably depends on the food you run through him.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Brittany.

Here is a thread with a good discussion..

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22730&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> redleg said:
> 
> 
> > The Brittany stays close and is the best family pet you could find. the down side is, a strainger is just a friend he hasn't met yet, and mine run away a lot. but they always come home when it gets dark. //dog// //dog//
> ...


both mine were escape artists


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Been doing a lot of research and am really leaning toward a springer. I love the way those dogs work a field. The downside that i'm thinking of is the fact that you don't really know when that bird is going to explode, that could be looked at as an upside!! 
If your brit goes into the phrag after a pheasant, how do you know he is on point? With a springer it seems easier to work the edges of the phrag and just watch for the bird to fly out.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> If your brit goes into the phrag after a pheasant, how do you know he is on point?


there are plenty of ways to deal with this. If your dog is a close ranging dog you can use a bell. My pup is actually a pretty big ranging FB and so I use a beeper collar. If I have not seen her for a while I start walking in the direction I last heard her until I hear a BEEP>>BEEP>>BEEP and then work my way to her and get the gun ready as the sound gets louder.

Another option is trackers or GPS systems. A springer would be a lot of fun and if you are going to be hunting phes in the thick stuff and waterfowling I think you would do fine.

if you are going to be out in the forest or out in the hills after chukar (the king in my book) you might want to look more into a pointing dog. I enjoy hunting over flushers and pointers but for me there is just something majestic and magical about a dog on point, a covey rise, and the sound of a shotgun. It does not get much better to me.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks guys!!!

I think as of now it is going to be a springer. These are the reasons:

1. I need a dog that is close working and it is pretty much a gaurantee the springer will do that.

2. I want the dog as a companion to take fishing, hiking etc. I'm reading alot about how the brit likes to wounder off.

3. I just think it will be less hassle for me to train a springer and because I'm not experienced with a bird dog I think it will make the whole deal more enjoyable.

4. I like the look a little better.

5. I know what I'm getting and kinda know how to train them because my dad had one. 

Only reason I didn't want one at first was because of the odor, my dad swore it was just the breed that smells that way no matter what. He feeds that thing cheap food and mixes the out of date table scraps and left overs with each bowl of food!! I won't be doing that I get quality food!

So, anyone know of a good place to get one of these guys? I'm thinking I'm going to make sure I get one from a rep. breeder rather than just some pup off KSL. What do you guys think, would it be a mistake to get a dog off KSL if it is an AKC?


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

To me AKC does not mean a thing. Find a good breeder who hunts and you will be a lot more likely to find a good pup.

Here is a kennel I found without too much effort. Make sure you take your time and find what you are looking for. It took me 8 months to get what I wanted and I am sure glad I waited.

http://www.goosecreekkennels.com/


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

I had a feeling that Birddogger was going to post pictures :lol: From what I hear WPG is a Da** good dog!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

katorade said:


> I had a feeling that Birddogger was going to post pictures :lol: From what I hear WPG is a Da** good dog!


Yeah, but I get spooked in the forest easy and I might see that beast of a dog and mistake it for a rabid chupucabra and shoot the poor thing!J/K

My wife would never go for it, I already pulled up a picture and the responce was not good.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Yeah, but I get spooked in the forest easy and I might see that beast of a dog and mistake it for a rabid chupucabra and shoot the poor thing!J/K


 -_O- 
The truth is that the ugly dogs are not for everyone. I totally understand the beauty vs. the beast argument. I don't think you can find a better pheasant dog, though. Those ugly furnishings protect the dog as it cuts through the thick cover or snow. The wirehaired breeds are fearless. The WPG happens to be the closest working and hairiest pointing breed, perfectly suited to chase roosters in the cattails. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

FWIW- I think a field bred springer is an awesome pheasant dog, too. The really great ones have somewhat hyper personalities. All that energy helps make up for their small size. Here's an article that might help you understand why it's important to find an established springer breeder rather than some Joe off of KSL. They can be a complex little dog to handle:
http://www.vetinfo.com/daggressp.html


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

BirdDogger said:


> > Yeah, but I get spooked in the forest easy and I might see that beast of a dog and mistake it for a rabid chupucabra and shoot the poor thing!J/K
> 
> 
> -_O-
> ...


Yeah I'd be fearless also if I looked like that!!lol. They do have a certain noble look about them though. It would almost be a novelty to hunt with one. Kinda like an old beat up boat that always brings the fish home. 
I'm going to take my time and get a dog from a breeder. I'm not going to try to get it in time to hunt this season, I'll plan on the following one. Wait, that will be near the end of the world, 2012!! Maybe I'll start looking harder!!


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