# My AR Blew Up #2



## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

In case you were wondering...... I got a call back from the manufacturer ( Rock River) that the round was in full battery when the rifle blew up. The cause they believe could be a couple of different things: 1. No crimp on the round so when it went into battery the projectile was shoved back into the brass case causing to much pressure and a possible squib. 2. to much powder ( this one I'm pretty sure is a definite NO!). They will rebuild the rifle with the parts that are still good, which is most of the lower , replacing 100 % of the upper. Cost is about $570.00. Or junk the whole **** thing and just play with my bolt guns or the third option is purchase a brand new DPMS Oracle for about $550.00. **** I thought Rock River would do better then that. I'm bummed. The good news is I still have my fingers, hand and eyesight. Thank you LORD !


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Wow... again, glad you are ok.

This post makes me want to run all my currently loaded 5.56 rounds through my crimper again...!


-DallanC


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Wow... again, glad you are ok.
> 
> This post makes me want to run all my currently loaded 5.56 rounds through my crimper again...!
> 
> -DallanC


After learning all I can about this topic , by the way it occurs more often than you think, there is a simple way to check your rounds. Get a block of wood and press the projectile tip into the block of wood. If it moves the least little bit don't shoot it.:shock:


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Al Hansen said:


> After learning all I can about this topic , by the way it occurs more often than you think, there is a simple way to check your rounds. Get a block of wood and press the projectile tip into the block of wood. If it moves the least little bit don't shoot it.:shock:


I've heard this method as well but one guys' idea of "push hard" can vary greatly from another's.

I loaded about 175, 5.56 rounds this weekend and just followed the same practice I always have...charge, seat then lightly crimp. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die and couldn't help but screw it down a little farther after reading your post, just in case.

So, your round never actually fired the projectile and instead just blew up the case? Even if it pushed back into the case deeper I would have thought it would come out, thus sending the gas charge down the tube enough to cycle the action.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

So Al? Is Rock River putting the whole blame on you? Were those factory loads or re-loads? If.....they were re-loads I can kind of understand Rock River's point of view, if...they were factory I would think they would take care of the issue. Either way it sounds like your out of luck...dang. 



I have a beautiful Daniel Defense I could sell you, no trades Al...


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Bummer Al, sorry to hear that they wont take better care of you.

Sounds like a good opportunity to start a thread on how to crimp in the reloading section


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Ok, I started a thread. Hopefully someone will find it useful

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/74-reloading-recipes/173649-crimping-rifle-rounds.html#post1817857


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

When I first started to load for my 45 ACP, I was concerned about bullet setback and overpressure. I was also learning how to crimp as well, so I loaded 3 rounds into a magazine, fired the first, then dropped out the magazine and emptied the chamber. I had previously measured the OAL of the rounds prior to firing and noticed the bullets had indeed seated deeper into the cases that were in the magazine. 

With my AR, I use a Lee factory crimp die for the very same reason - to avoid bullet setback and possibly dangerous pressure spikes. 

Definitely glad you are OK!


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

KineKilla said:


> I've heard this method as well but one guys' idea of "push hard" can vary greatly from another's.
> 
> I loaded about 175, 5.56 rounds this weekend and just followed the same practice I always have...charge, seat then lightly crimp. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die and couldn't help but screw it down a little farther after reading your post, just in case.
> 
> So, your round never actually fired the projectile and instead just blew up the case? Even if it pushed back into the case deeper I would have thought it would come out, thus sending the gas charge down the tube enough to cycle the action.


The projectile did exit the barrel but the receiver blew from the pressure.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

.45 said:


> So Al? Is Rock River putting the whole blame on you? Were those factory loads or re-loads? If.....they were re-loads I can kind of understand Rock River's point of view, if...they were factory I would think they would take care of the issue. Either way it sounds like your out of luck...dang.
> 
> I have a beautiful Daniel Defense I could sell you, no trades Al...


Yup a reload. I get it but hoped they do me a rebuild a little cheaper. But be aware that it doesn't matter. Rock River said they see at least one rifle a month come in. Some in better condition and some worse. Be safe guys.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Hey Al,

I recommend you sign up for the Goober's Rifle Bullet Protection Plan:
http://utahwildlife.net/forum/18-firearms-reloading/167370-crimping-rifle-bullets-18.html

.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Al.....when I was sixteen I bought a new .22 Ruger Six Shooter with a .22mag cylinder. First shot, out of the box, from the thing was a .22 mag. 1/2 of the slug caught the barrel, the other half stayed in the cylinder. I took it back to the store with 4 live rounds and a cylinder that wouldn't turn. I collected more of the back blow in my face than I wanted to, quite a bit in my eye. I've never touched a Ruger since nor ever will. 
I'd imagine that's about how you feel about Rock River. You must have an angel on your shoulders !


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

LAR/Grizzlty out of South Jordan was making the lowers for Rock River as of a few years ago. NOt sure that it does you any good, but it may be worth a call to them for their opinion, but likely a waste of your time.


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

> In case you were wondering...... I got a call back from the manufacturer ( Rock River) that the round was in full battery when the rifle blew up. The cause they believe could be a couple of different things: 1. No crimp on the round so when it went into battery the projectile was shoved back into the brass case causing to much pressure and a possible squib. 2. to much powder ( this one I'm pretty sure is a definite NO!). They will rebuild the rifle with the parts that are still good, which is most of the lower , replacing 100 % of the upper. Cost is about $570.00. Or junk the whole **** thing and just play with my bolt guns or the third option is purchase a brand new DPMS Oracle for about $550.00. **** I thought Rock River would do better then that. I'm bummed. The good news is I still have my fingers, hand and eyesight. Thank you LORD !


what was the charge weight for your reloads , i would put a low percentage on an uncrimped round , i doubt that was the cause

they probably wont send you damaged parts back to you but id ask to have them returned with your lower , it would look nice hanging on the wall over your press

i load on a 550 and i had an situation where using too much sizing wax actually decreased the diameter of the powder funnel hole enough that it caused an intermittent bridging , so even though all of the first 100 were all the same 24.5 grain drop ..... But, near the end of a batch of 1k i felt , the powder drop "jump " and spill powder on the shell plate , im glad i stopped and looked at it ,i knew i screwed up when i seen that the powder funnel hole was 1/2 the size it was supposed to be due to buildup up wax and powder

i ended up pulling about 800 bullets , resizing without decapper , recharging , and re- seating and crimping all of the same batch cause i didnt know where in the batch it started @#$^^^&& ... that was one hell of a lesson , powder dumped was was coming out at the 24.5 like it was supposed to but then i would get a shy one at about 20 g ... then , a heavy one 27g ( what was left in the funnel from the shy charge + the new dropped charge )

i no longer add any sizing wax to the neck or shoulder when sizing , just the case body


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

DUSTY NOGGIN said:


> what was the charge weight for your reloads , i would put a low percentage on an uncrimped round , i doubt that was the cause
> 
> they probably wont send you damaged parts back to you but id ask to have them returned with your lower , it would look nice hanging on the wall over your press
> 
> ...


I use a single stage RCBS and when I drop the powder I use a wooden loading block and drop about 20 -25 rounds at a time. I then pick up the block and look into each round to see that the powder in each round is the same height. I've done it this way since my pops taught me in 1957. On the large grain powders like 4831 I weigh each load. On the very fine powder I weigh every 5th one. On test loads for a ladder test I load each round individually using the scale and a powder trickle. I know it wasn't caused by an overcharge. 
Yes with the Dillon you can have an issue. Especially with large grain powders. I do use a Dillon on my .45 ACP.


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

> I use a single stage RCBS and when I drop the powder I use a wooden loading block and drop about 20 -25 rounds at a time. I then pick up the block and look into each round to see that the powder in each round is the same height. I've done it this way since my pops taught me in 1957. On the large grain powders like 4831 I weigh each load. On the very fine powder I weigh every 5th one. On test loads for a ladder test I load each round individually using the scale and a powder trickle. I know it wasn't caused by an overcharge.
> Yes with the Dillon you can have an issue. Especially with large grain powders. I do use a Dillon on my .45 ACP.


i hear ya man, what are you considering maxaccuate for your load,

maybe your max charge was just a little much for that gun and that round being same as all others before it was just the last straw , possible barrel metal not to spec ( which they wont tell you about ) possible chambered too big, shallow or wrong in general ( which they wont tell you about ) ... i would try and have them ship it back with your lower, its hard to believe their conclusion if they wont let you have it back ,

i just dont see the uncrimped reason to be as likely as something else,

unless you seen feeding issues or you had to forward assist that round or something weird like that ???

maybe you missed a case trim and had a longer one than your chamber and it wedged ???

out of their 2 choices that they gave you for a reason, what i heard was " it was either your fault or not our fault " ... there is alot they didnt say which sounds like a lawyer approved response ( and i get that ) but, them not saying the full tests that they did shows a bias test result -- like "we checked metal composition and it is in fact our barrel " or "we took measurements of all possible chamber dimensions that were not distorted like , freebore / leade, headspace , transition to freebore depth/angle which turned out to be 100% without a doubt cut to our specs" i would tell them not to destroy the barrel as it may be needed for evidence , in writing of course and require a response to that request

i think they gave you a blanket response that has proven to work for them , they have your gun and all of the evidence to prove otherwise ( if it exists ) , and now they are just checking to see if you will accept their opinion of facts


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

DUSTY NOGGIN said:


> i just dont see the uncrimped reason to be as likely as something else,
> 
> unless you seen feeding issues or you had to forward assist that round or something weird like that ???
> 
> maybe you missed a case trim and had a longer one than your chamber and it wedged ???


It is well known that an uncrimped round can push the bullet back in the case. That will cause higher pressures. It does not happen all the time but it does happen.

If the case was excessively long and "wedged" in the chamber as you put it, it would not have locked into battery and would not have fired.

Al does a lot of reloading and knows what he is doing.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

reb8600 said:


> It is well known that an uncrimped round can push the bullet back in the case. That will cause higher pressures. It does not happen all the time but it does happen.
> 
> If the case was excessively long and "wedged" in the chamber as you put it, it would not have locked into battery and would not have fired.
> 
> Al does a lot of reloading and knows what he is doing.


The round did go into battery. Something to think about here is I did go to a large sporting good store and tried several AR triggers after this happened. Everyone of the AR's I pulled the trigger on the trigger dropped the hammer without the bolt carrier being in the fully forward position. Seemed very odd to me. Rock River is rebuilding the rifle. The lower is in good shape . The upper was totally destroyed. Cost is $567.50. Shipped to my door. I had to really thing about having it rebuilt or just buying a new one at a cheaper price.

Again I want to say that my issue is not an uncommon problem. Happens all the time. Be safe guys.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

What primers were you using in your loads? 

We had that discussion not long ago about some people using primers intended for the Hornet in ar15 rounds. Those are very thin cup and possibly could go off from the floating firing pin strikes? Just brain storming here...

More 5.56 rounds are fired per year than just about any other type (excluding 22lr). According to alot of forum searching across the net, most people dont crimp... yet gun failures are fairly rare.

I think I'm going to mic my rounds the next time out, fire a few and check COL's on the remaining rounds. Especially rounds chambered from the action cycling. I'd love to see if there are any changes in COL.

-DallanC


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> What primers were you using in your loads?
> 
> We had that discussion not long ago about some people using primers intended for the Hornet in ar15 rounds. Those are very thin cup and possibly could go off from the floating firing pin strikes? Just brain storming here...
> 
> ...


Standard Small Rifle CCI and Federal. I have switched recently to Winchester because of cost and easier to seat. Looking forward to what you find out.


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

reb8600 said:


> It is well known that an uncrimped round can push the bullet back in the case. That will cause higher pressures. It does not happen all the time but it does happen.


im not saying it didnt happen , lowering your case capacity will increase pressure yes but wouldn't increasing jump , decrease slightly and mellow the spike of the pressure ??? , maybe not enough, dont know ..



> If the case was excessively long and "wedged" in the chamber as you put it, it would not have locked into battery and would not have fired.


if the neck was long and contacted before the shoulder , it may still wedge 
but this isnt likely to happen either, when uncrimped ..



> Al does a lot of reloading and knows what he is doing.


im not bagging on anybody , just "brainstorming" ... there is a reason the gun popped

it coulda been al's reloading charge weight , case prep , rock river, powder mfg , bullet mfg, or the bullet set back or whatever

i just dont think bullet set back is as likely as the other possibilities

if it is in fact setting back , its a neck tension problem or neck wall thickness not giving enough grab , or the contact while cycling into battery

how many firings do you have on that brass , do you have annealer ???

you could grind/polish your expander button in your die a smaller ???

cycle a dummy round and see if your getting any scratches at all on the bullet . seat a bullet in a dummy round , drop it on its nose and see if it moves


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

DUSTY NOGGIN said:


> im not saying it didnt happen , lowering your case capacity will increase pressure yes but wouldn't increasing jump , decrease slightly and mellow the spike of the pressure ??? , maybe not enough, dont know ..
> 
> if the neck was long and contacted before the shoulder , it may still wedge
> but this isnt likely to happen either, when uncrimped ..
> ...


The rifle is now being rebuilt by Rock River. No more reloads in an AR platform for me. Not worth it to me. I'll keep it as a street sweeper if I ever need it.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Got it back. Looks good. It's only $$$$$$$$$$$$$.


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

Don't know how I missed the update. Their interpretation of causes was interesting.

FYI, I recently had to return two 20rd boxes of factory Winchester .223 because of weak crimps. Just releasing the bolt wouldn't do it, but the second round loaded would cause the bullet to set back fully into the case mouth. Luckily, I found out as I only fired one at a time (coyote hunting), before unloading.

Back to my own reloads now.


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