# New to ML



## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Couple of Q: New to the ML stuff and was thinking of taking it up.....

What make is the best on the market, opinions welcome! But tell me Y?
What range does one have. I hear they can be shot at great distances 3-400 yards?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I just jumped into the game last year, I really enjoyed it! I had done a lot of similar inquiries specifically at the local gun shops and after such due diligence ended up with a TC Omega, exactly like this one for sale in the trading post. The features that I liked was that it still had the barrel, shot a cheaper CVA and quickly saw the advantage of spending a little more money. The discussion that really turned me on to the Omega was in speaking to the Gallenson boys in downtown SLC; one of them owns 10 or so ML rifles, several of which cost over double the cost of the basic Omega and it is his first choice for accuracy purposes. Read for yourself by clicking on the Cabela's website 4.9 stars out of 5 after 42 reviews is phenomenal, read through those to get some more feedback.

The 3-400 yard business is not even a reasonable dream IMHO in Utah; based on the law of not being able to use magnified optics (1x power of red dots, peep sights or open sights are the only legal options), even at 100 yards the reticle will often cover the whole 12" target, there are those who claim to very accurate nonetheless, which I admire, not me. IMHO 200 yards is a bit of a stretch based on my experience, but I have spoken to some ML vets who feel comfortable at 200, but no more.

One other tidbit of info that I dug up was that the 209 primers are too hot/too strong where they often times push unburned powder down the barrel, which would obviously result in an inconsistent shot with differing amounts of powder, so you can get very simple replacement breech plugs that use small rifle primers or even get empty 209 primers that you put the small rifle primer in...seems to help me. Here are a few of those primer replacements
Variflame
http://thebuckskinner.com/omega.html

Good luck, I think you will enjoy it!
BTW-looking for an ATV? http://euccu.com/auction.asp?passid=2007outlander


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Thanks man.... I am thinking if I put in for my Elk tag on the Muzzy I would draw for sure! And I have never taken anything with a ML! But only hunted one year.....years ago


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

As far as the question on which brand to purchase..... There is nothing wrong with the CVA loaders! I own a .50 cal. .45 cal. in the CVA. I would shoot against anyone out there that has any brand. I also have a .54 cal. T/C. Black Mountain Mag. This is a side lock, and it is very accurate as well. The one I like to "look at" the most is my Austin Halleck. This is a great rifle, and I have never taken an animal with it. I don't shoot it anymore becouse of the value of this rifle now.(They no longer make them)

I would say get what you can afford. Most important....."WORK A LOAD UP FOR IT" I never use pellets. I use loose powder, and when finding a load for it, I start out at 85gr. of powder, and work my way up in 5 gr. increments. If you load over 110 gr. of loose powder, your waisting your powder, and loosing accuracy. 

Hope this helps out.


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## High Country (Apr 27, 2008)

TAK,
I have hunting with muzzleloaders for the last 6 years. Some of the guys in our party are using the Remington with pellets instead of powder which has great accuracy and is easy to load.

I have a Knight MK85 54 cal. with the thumb hole stock that I really like. I am shooting 110 grains of powder with 325 grain sabot bullet. This sounds like a lot, however I have not put a hole in an animal larger than the bullet yet. With the red dot scope that I use, the pattern at 100 years is about 1/4" apart on paper.

I would not recommend to anyone a shot farther than 200 yards for any animal, especially elk. I have heard from some hunters that have lost big bulls after shooting at them with a muzzleloader. I would be at the top of the draw for Monroe Elk on the muzzleloader hunt and still won't put in and take the chance of not getting one.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Tak,
I've been at the game over 30 years, even before Utah had a muzz season, I was out there with my muzz during the general season. I'm a traditionalist, but believe there are a lot of good guns out there in the inline class. I'd guess buy one that was a few dollars more than you think you can afford. They are all quality guns.
And like someone else said, work up the load that works for that gun. Most likely you will end up around 90 grains of loose FFg powder and a bullet in the 350 to 450 gr. size.
As for shooting big game, forget about shots over 100 yards. Stick to reality and be kind to the animal...shoot to kill...and that means less than 100 yards.
Practice a lot and get to know your rifle and it's capabilities and it's flaws...they all have them.
I shoot a Thompson Center in 54 cal and it shoots better than I can handle it.
Good luck and welcome to the muzz shooting group. Once you smell that blackpowder smoke you will be hooked!


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Thanks all... Still in the not sure mode of it.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

just go buy one ya stinkin pansy!
I really dont think you could go wrong with any of them.
Get a long barrel and shoot heavy bullets.
personally, I'll shoot a deer/antelope at 150yds. Elk/moose I limit at 100 yds.
I can bust a milk jug off of a bench at 200yds, but wouldnt dare try it in the feild.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Hey TAK,

Go for it, you'll really like it. The muzz has all the feel of a primitive hunt but with some extended range and quick kill capability.

All the major manufacturers have good stuff whether you're into traditional or in-line. The in-line rifles are easier to clean and have more reliable ignition (which is much more weatherproof on most models also).

In Utah, the range of a muzzleloader is really limited by the sights. You can only use a 1x scope, which means no magnification. Everyone has their own limits, but I don't shoot mine much beyond 100 yards simply because that's the effective distance of my sight picture for deer-sized game. Modern guns are consistent enough to be accurate to greater distances, but the bottom line is that you're dealing with essentially handgun velocities and sights without magnification.

Look for a model that fits. For some reason, a good number of offerings have really small trigger guards so make sure you get a rifle that can accomodate gloves. I have a Winchester Apex .50 cal and it has been excellent. T/C, Knight, CVA -- all good brands.

I prefer the powder pellets and a Powerbelt-type slug. 100 grains of powder is a good starting point.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Thompson Center is the brand for me, I have five different ones. They have been making them for a long time.

Your max range is going to be determined by how far you are comfortable shooting the equipment you choose to use.
I finally got around to taking out my new Omega this past weekend; I was shooting 100 grains of triple 777 pellets under a 250 grain TC shockwave sabot. 

I sighted it in with both my Sightron 1x and my 3x9 scope; I use QD rings to be able to switch back and forth as I occasionally hunt down home where the 3x9 scope is legal to use.

I was averaging 1.25" groups at 100 yards with the 3x9; and 3" groups with the 1x. I went out to 200 and got 3" groups with the 3x9 and averaged around 10" with the 1x. I'm not sure if I could duplicate that group in the field without a bench so my max range with a 1x is more like 150 yards or less. 

I even took a few 300 yard shots at the gong for the h**l of it, I hit it once, but that’s way out of my hunting range; however it does make for a fun competition at the range. :shock: 

I may take my Omega out again this weekend and check it out with 150 gr power loads. My Encore shoots much flatter with the 150 gr loads but the groups open up somewhat, I'm interested to see if the Omega does the same thing.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

The knock on 209 primer ignition is that they can be too hot and push some unburned powder down the barrel. Don't let this diswade you from buying the convience of a 209 ingnition inline. If you use too much powder it will not all burn up no matter what source of ingnition you use. But if you use a reasonable amount of powder you will get good ingition with 209 primers. And you can buy "209" primers specially made for black powder or equivelent propellent.


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## big_bucker (Jul 17, 2008)

i dropped my deer at 218 yds on the muzzleloader last year so you can make a shot at 200 if your comfortable with it. wich i was.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

TAK, I've also used several different ML's over the past 15 or so years. I'm a cheapskate and I've never owned a high dollar gun. Right now I shoot a Traditions Pro .50. Animals always drop as soon as I hit the trigger. I guess the cheap stuff works too! Anyways, the one feature that I like about my current gun and that is available on some of the T/C guns is that the barrel can be easily opened all the way through from front to back. It makes cleaning way easier than some other models. You have to clean a blackpowder rifle more often than you'd like to imagine, so the easier done the better the gun IMO.


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