# so I'm not sure how to feel about this



## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

A guy I know likes to hunt a bit more than I feel he should. When I say more than he should, I mean him and his family members will shoot 3 or 4 deer knowing they don't even really eat deer and then call around to see if anyone wants them but they want the head/antlers back. These deer are by no means even worthy of mounting, simply shot to fill a tag. I know that this year they had at least one deer that was still in their backyard 3 or 4 days later because nobody wanted it and may have even gone to waste.

This is someone that is a very good hunter but I think is being very wasteful, they live in a nice neighborhood and do not have to hunt out of "need". I respect him in many ways but can't get over this, mostly because I was raised to only kill what I am going to eat. If they had people ahead of time who wanted the meat it would be one thing, but to kill in hopes of finding a home for the meat after the fact doesn't make sense to me.

What do you guys think, am I crazy on this?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

there are a allot of people like him, if it bothers you so much. then you should have taken the animals for your self or help him out in finding someone that will take them.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

If they are properly tagged and are donating the meat I don't see an issue. A deer hanging for three or 4 days shouldn't be an issue either, I know of some hunters who will age their deer up to 3 or 4 weeks before cutting them up. If the meat is not going to waste, let it go. 

As far as hunting more than you feel they should, I wonder what my neighbors say about me?? (I already know what my wife thinks...)


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## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

UTAH SPORTSMAN AGAINST HUNGER, phone number statewide 801 209 2087. You or he can donate to feed the hungry. No reason to let any game go to waste. Hope this helps you both.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

sagebrush said:


> there are a allot of people like him, if it bothers you so much. then you should have taken the animals for your self or help him out in finding someone that will take them.


Heaven forbid the hunter that knows he does not want the meat do some homework BEFORE he shoots the animal.

I think that is what 30-06 is suggesting and I agree with him.

I know plenty of people that don't use the meat, they just enjoy hunting and I have no problem whatsoever with that. On the other hand I feel it is irresponsible for someone to knowingly shoot an animal and let it go to waste. To shoot one knowing full well that you won't use it, and don't have any idea what you will do with it at that time is the first step in that direction and it's not the responsability of those who do use the meat to seek out those who don't and try to "help them out"


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

While I think that your concerns are certainly valid, I also believe that this issue borderlines on none of your business and that you shouldn't waste any energy worrying about it. As much as we are all tempted to do it, we should not personify our own morals and beliefs on to others if all is within the law.--------SS


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I have no use for anyone who kills simply for the sake of killing and willfully wastes game meat. No use at all.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Springville Shooter said:


> While I think that your concerns are certainly valid, I also believe that this issue borderlines on none of your business and that you shouldn't waste any energy worrying about it. As much as we are all tempted to do it, we should not personify our own morals and beliefs on to others if all is within the law.--------SS


Since allowing protected wildlife to spoil is NOT within the law, you have every right to report him if you think it's spoiled. Whether or not you want to do that (or simply let him know he's breaking the law or help him donate it) may be another matter , but if you know that the meat is spoiled or he throws it out, it certainly is your business. And you're probably not the only one who's noticed, so sooner or later, your friend will be sited and how will you feel then?


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Wow, I am little surprised at the responses to this question. Seems a majority see nothing wrong as long as he is in the limits of the law. In fact some are actually belittling you for even asking...strange. I personally don't feel good about the practice, legal or not and I don't have a problem with your concern. It is up to all us sportsman to govern ourselves and our group as a whole, both legally AND morally.
A hunting tag is more than just a license to kill, hunting is more than just legalized killing, and as a group, we need to be better than that!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You would hate to see what I do. I hunt deer in 3 different states and elk in 2 and I am single and there is no way for me to eat that much meat in one year. When I do shoot a deer or elk I'll let it hang for up to 3 weeks before I start to butcher it, and I will give 95% of the meat away. 

If you actually feel that there is something wrong going on with your neighbor call the poaching hot line and report him. But be prepared for something happening that you don't like when nothing happens to them.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> As much as we are all tempted to do it, we should not personify our own morals and beliefs on to others if all is within the law.--------SS


I agree to a certain point SS but I think this is where things can start to get a bit grey in a bad way. The law is pretty specific about what is ok and what is not. We as the public tend to justify our way around those specifics in a lot of cases. I'm sure we all know of someone, or have done ourselves something that wasn't "technically" within the law.

In this specific case it seems easy that a person who doesn't want the meat, and is not trophy hunting could very easily go down the road of shooting at something and not even making an attempt to see if they hit it or not. Or what if someone who falls into this category shoots a small buck off the side of the road one day and instead of tipping over conveniently the buck dives off into some steep nasty place. Does this hunter have any motivation to retrieve that animal, or are they just out shooting deer anyway so lets just go find another one to shoot.

I know, it's all hypothetical, but some things do lead to others pretty easy.

I think we all have a responsability to stand up for our wildlife. These laws are not only for them, but for us as well.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

This is a good discussion. I'm enjoying reading all the replies and pondering them. Lots of different sides to the talk.


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

innocent till proven guilty
IF you have no proof that the meat is going to waste don't accuse


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Definitely some interesting replies so far, and some folks are showing their true character, keep the feedback coming.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

30-06-hunter said:


> ... and some folks are showing their true character...


An implication that your character is somehow superior to others due to a projection of your personal view of ethics and morality.
Someone's true character is showing, that is certain!

If these were trophy critters hanging from the tree in the backyard would your assessment of character change? My assumption would be that squabbling over potentially spoiled meat would go right out the window & this man and his group would simple be hailed as phenomenal hunters and world class outdoorsmen!

My true character thinks that it sounds like a case of sticking your nose somewhere it doesn't belong.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

From the initial description it makes it hard to tell whether or not the meat is just being left to spoil and go to waste. I do have a problem with wasting the meat. So does the law. If he is finding people to use it, and the animals were taken legally, I have no issue with what he is doing.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

derekp1999 said:


> An implication that your character is somehow superior to others due to a projection of your personal view of ethics and morality.
> Someone's true character is showing, that is certain!
> 
> If these were trophy critters hanging from the tree in the backyard would your assessment of character change? My assumption would be that squabbling over potentially spoiled meat would go right out the window & this man and his group would simple be hailed as phenomenal hunters and world class outdoorsmen!
> ...


I couldn't care less if it is a world record buck or a spike or a doe. Being a responsible and ethical sportsman is everyone's business.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

derekp1999 said:


> My true character thinks that it sounds like a case of sticking your nose somewhere it doesn't belong.


Derek, does your true character also think that someone is sticking their nose where it shouldn't be if they said something about somebody shooting two rooster pheasants, taking them home and then going pheasant hunting again that day?

I don't know you at all and therfore know nothing about your character so don't take my statement as an attack on you personally.

On the other hand if we are willing to sit back and watch others make their own "ethical" choices about following the law we are simply contributing to the demise of hunting/fishing.

Many of the things that people call ethics have nothing at all to do with ethics, they are simply about obeying the law, or not obeying the law. They would only be ethics if it were left up to each of us to do what was right for the animals and other hunters because it was best, not because it was a law punisable by a fine or penalty.

It is un-ethical for a guy to pull up and sit within shooting distance of my decoy spread and then sky bust at everything that goes by.

It is unlawful for me or anyone else to shoot ducks and then throw them in the trash can. There could be an argument made about throwing them away being ethical or not but it doesn't really matter because in our world law trumps ethics.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Let me be perfectly clear. If you know someone is breaking the law, make it your business by calling the authorities. From what you described, you are guessing at possibilities and that doesn't warrant any action in my opinion. While I agree that sportsmen must be united against crime, we also have a responsibility to respect each other and that means leaving each to their own. While many might disagree, I see nothing wrong with gifting game meat and have done it myself. This is a practice that is 100% legal and the ethics of the matter are entirely personal. If you don't like the practice, don't do it, but leave those who do alone. If you don't believe in shooting spikes, don't do it, but leave those who do alone. If you don't like CWMU's, don't hunt on them, but leave those who do alone. Sticking your nose where it doesn't belong will only cause problems......you being the majority of the problem. Please remember the value of the individual "pursuit of happiness" and apply it when the law does not specify. -------SS


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Being a responsible and ethical sportsman is everyone's business.


I 100% disagree with this statement. Morals and ethics are intangible and can only be taught and shown. They are also largely based on opinion. The critical ones are covered by laws that we all agree to obey. The rest are completely personal and frankly none of anyone else's business. No offense LL, I just see things way differently than you do.------SS


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Truelife said:


> Derek, does your true character also think that someone is sticking their nose where it shouldn't be if they said something about somebody shooting two rooster pheasants, taking them home and then going pheasant hunting again that day?


Not the same situation... if the neighbor was hustling home, hanging up a deer and heading back out bring back another later that evening then you analogy applies. To use pheasants... if I were to take my bag limit (2 birds) and with those 2 birds sitting on my workbench in the garage I go out and harvest 2 more the following day... I'm doing so legally & I see nothing "ethically" wrong.



Truelife said:


> I don't know you at all and therfore know nothing about your character so don't take my statement as an attack on you personally.


No worries.



Truelife said:


> On the other hand if we are willing to sit back and watch others make their own "ethical" choices about following the law we are simply contributing to the demise of hunting/fishing.
> 
> Many of the things that people call ethics have nothing at all to do with ethics, they are simply about obeying the law, or not obeying the law. They would only be ethics if it were left up to each of us to do what was right for the animals and other hunters because it was best, not because it was a law punisable by a fine or penalty.
> 
> ...


I agree, and you say it yourself very well. Much of what we call ethics has nothing to do with the law. It is our individual perception of what we determine to be right... ultimately nothing more than what makes us "feel good." 
On an annual basis fishing the Logan River I find myself confronting and turning in fishermen that are using bait where it is artificial fly and lure only. Legal issue, not Derek's personal ethics issue. Personally, every hook that I use is barbless, however, I do not make it a point to stop every fisherman that I see and chastise them if they choose not to crimp their barbs.


Springville Shooter said:


> Let me be perfectly clear. If you know someone is breaking the law, make it your business by calling the authorities. From what you described, you are guessing at possibilities and that doesn't warrant any action in my opinion. While I agree that sportsmen must be united against crime, we also have a responsibility to respect each other and that means leaving each to their own. While many might disagree, I see nothing wrong with gifting game meat and have done it myself. This is a practice that is 100% legal and the ethics of the matter are entirely personal. If you don't like the practice, don't do it, but leave those who do alone.


I'm glad I previewed my response and saw SS's last post, perfectly stated! If ducks go into the garbage can that is no longer an ethical issue... it's legal. If this neighbor hangs bucks in the backyard and they go to waste it's no longer ethical it is legal and I'd get involved (but I'd be absolutely certain that it was in fact going to waste). But if he's legally harvesting a deer and it is ultimately being utilized it's none of my business.
For far too many out there the lines are blurred between the ethical and the legal.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

SS - Let me first clarify that I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm against gifting of game meat of any kind. I am completely in favor of this practice. My suggestion regarding that in this thread is only that a hunter who knows full well going into the season that he will need to find a home for the meat should probably do that long before he pulls the trigger.



Springville Shooter said:


> I 100% disagree with this statement. Morals and ethics are intangible and can only be taught and shown. They are also largely based on opinion. The critical ones are covered by laws that we all agree to obey. The rest are completely personal and frankly none of anyone else's business. No offense LL, I just see things way differently than you do.------SS


I do agree with your definition of ethics and morals and how they should be passed on. My problem with this statement is that when someone sees no problem with doing any number of things I find un-ethical it almost always has a direct affect on my personal hunt.

Doesn't it become my business when their choices force me go somewhere else, call in ducks for them, let them fish in the same #[email protected]% hole in the ice..... These are all things I have personally had happen. Even the one about the same hole in the ice.

Yeah, they have their rights too, but so do I. We live in a society where most poeple won't even stop for a red light anymore unless it is obvious it will cause them bodily injury and that attitude is right in the middle of our hunting world too.

If your business has no impact on my business that's great. I won't bother you if you don't bother me. I don't care if you want to hug trees and live on quaker oats.

But if you want me to stay out of your business then you sure as hell better stay out of mine.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Judas Priest! There are some interesting internet heros on this forum! If you see something that is illegal then report it, otherwise leave it alone. Such a simple thing, made complicated by men with high estrogen levels. Sayin that a man hunts more that you think he should -O,-! You must hang out with the women in my neighborhood, bunch of gossip spreadin trash talkers, I expect it from them but from a fellow hunter?! All I can do is shake my head.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Airborne said:


> Judas Priest! There are some interesting internet heros on this forum! If you see something that is illegal then report it, otherwise leave it alone. Such a simple thing, made complicated by men with high estrogen levels.


Airborne - some folks can't talk kindly to one another on the forum and it would probably go downhill in person. However there are many of us that can have a discussion about opposing ideas without getting offended or heated.

There is a photo section if you aren't interested in the discussions.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Hey Truelife, How is the air up there on that high horse of yours, I hear the smug gets mighty thick at that altitude.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

Back to the main point, I love to hunt and many people think I hunt too much. I apply for all western states, and hunt all types of birds/fowl. I do try to give away a little of what I kill. But I dont kill that much (Big Game). I give away a few pheasants or grouse or ducks/geese a year. Maybe 10 or so. These are to older people or neighbors that love the meat and dont hunt. The rest I make into jerky and bring to work and my employees think its awesome. 

He is legal to kill with each tag he and family posses. I am not a huge fan of kill to kill because I have a tag. But dont get me wrong, I love to go out and kill, but use what I kill. With deer and the bad situation they are in, I wish they would understand whats going on and let them walk, but take what they want.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Airborne - thanks for your opinion. Everyone is welcome to have one.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

What happened was he called me up the second week of November and left a voice mail asking if I wanted a deer he had shot, 3 or 4 days later it was still there and people were wondering what he was going to do with it. It was not hung up to age/cure/bleed out, it was laying dead on the side of his house in the grass with flies on it. Last year they shot 3 small bucks on the last day of their tags, I put some of the meat to use but gave half of it to a neighbor who likes deer more than I do, not sure what became of the other 2 they shot.

So legal or not, I find it very unethical to shoot an animal without KNOWING it's meat will be put to good use. I personally do not hunt deer because my wife and I prefer to eat elk, plus most deer are too easy to hunt. But I'm definitely not going to go shoot an animal "just because I can" in hopes I can give it away, think what you want but that's just not right.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If that is the case then the answer is plain and simple. 

Report him.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Critter said:


> If that is the case then the answer is plain and simple.
> 
> Report him.


Yep, and there should be no question how you should feel about this either...


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

Maybe you should ask him about next time instead of coming on here when you don't know what is going on


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Your second post provides a lot more clarity. Time to call the warden. Details make the difference. I have, however, shot game that I wasn't sure what I was going to do with. The difference is that I immediately processed the animal and froze it. Later, I decided to make some jerky, some salami, and I gave some away. I hunt for experience, not solely for meat. Some years I end up with more than we can eat. Last year my daughter and I both got cow tags in a good area. We tagged out together and donated a fully processed elk to a family in the neighborhood who was out of work. ----------SS


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Critter said:


> If that is the case then the answer is plain and simple.
> 
> Report him.


With the additional info. you gave, I think you should report it too.
Also, I think you should tell this person how you feel in person. 
I know I would. 
It would be interesting to hear his side of the story.


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## papaderf (Aug 24, 2013)

ok got a good one I knew this rich group. Nine tags to a top cwmu unit they spend 90k a year on this and yes they all harvest of course. They get every elk processed and of course heads taken care of also. BUT they give 90% of that meat to people that work for them so are they head hunting or being nice¿ me personally I give a lot of our meat to family and friends so lets worry about poachers not hunters.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

The details do make a difference... if you would have included that info initially it'd have been a resounding "report it" from me.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Sorry 06, but I gotta say it, I'm finding your story less and less credible as it has evolved on this thread.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> Wow, I am little surprised at the responses to this question. Seems a majority see nothing wrong as long as he is in the limits of the law. In fact some are actually belittling you for even asking...strange. I personally don't feel good about the practice, legal or not and I don't have a problem with your concern. It is up to all us sportsman to govern ourselves and our group as a whole, both legally AND morally.
> A hunting tag is more than just a license to kill, hunting is more than just legalized killing, and as a group, we need to be better than that!


Couldn't have said it better myself BP. Slobs are slobs and weather it's legal or not, behavior like this makes me mad. Game hogs give hunting a black eye. If you don't have enough respect for the animals you hunt to eat them, don't hunt. Sadly, todays hunting mentality is more about inches of antler and how good you're going to look on Facebook with your name and a gay hunting team logo on your picture. :?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself BP. Slobs are slobs and weather it's legal or not, behavior like this makes me mad. Game hogs give hunting a black eye. If you don't have enough respect for the animals you hunt to eat them, don't hunt. Sadly, todays hunting mentality is more about inches of antler and how good you're going to look on Facebook with your name and a gay hunting team logo on your picture. :?


How about this Bob? Is someone is doing something that is legal, but you don't like it, either confront them face to face like a man, or shut up and mind your own business. Remember, we are all unethical in someone's book. The question is whether or not we choose to care. ------SS


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Shooting more than you can eat is ok as long as you have found a home for the meat BEFORE your kill it. I usually hunt and harvest multiple animals per year, but I find a home for the meat long before I hunt it. A last ditch effort after the fact is embarrassing...and short sighted IMHO.


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## vaportrail (Dec 7, 2013)

If he processed and froze the meat and THEN was asking if people wanted it, no problem. Leaving it on the side of the house in the grass for days? Unacceptable. No respect for the animal and illegal to boot.


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

Here's my take on it

Mind your own business. Too many people these days feel the need to worry about their lives AND everyone else's. I absolutely hate people like that 

It's on their shoulders. Not yours.

That is all


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## msummer88 (Aug 20, 2013)

I feel like it gives hunters a bad name. I don't like the guys that hang close to the gray area. 

Hunting is a life for a life, not a life for a wall decoration.


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

I know a guy who was an effective hunter and filled a lot of tags for people back in the day. This is illegal and he should not have done it, but those deer got used by people who appreciated it. This bothers me far less than those who legally fill their own tag and let the deer rot in the freezer. 

I remember a guide, who was a friend of a man I worked for, had just pulled into a marina with his successful clients on an AK black bear hunt. He asked my boss if he wanted any bear meat. The clients were sitting right there. The response was "IF HE'S A BIG ENOUGH MAN TO KILL IT, HE'S A BIG ENOUGH MAN TO EAT IT!"

My sentiments exactly.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I know a guy with a couple sons that gets all the doe/cow tags they can each year and delivers cut and wrapped meat to needy in our town. I like the idea and I support him as long as the meat is used and appreciated. Two - three times a fall, a group of us guys on our block meet in his garage and we have cut-n-wrap fest. He even supplies beer and Pepsi for us helpers. 
I see nothing wrong with it.


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## HotWapities (Aug 26, 2010)

Agreed SS, Back in the 80's and 90's I was a Hunter Safety Insrtuctor (13 years) and one class I will always remember started out with a discussion on Ethics wherein the question was asked "How many of you would shoot ducks on the water"? A young man in the front row raised his hand. I didn't think much of it at the time and the hour long discussion continued as well as a film about ethics. In the film it showed a man baiting ducks with buckets full of corn, with his son along for the hunt. Long story short: when the film and discussion ended I again asked the same question "How many of you would shoot a duck on the water? Same young man raised his hand. My immediate thought was that he must have been on a hunt with "DAD" or "Uncle Bob" and watched as they slayed several ducks while they sat on a pond. This young man had been taught that this was how to hunt ducks. A learned behaviour taught by someone with lesser ethics. YOU are the only referee when you are out there. YOU will make the call, just be sure you are not passing your bad habits on to the next generation because they look to you for the ethics they will adopt.


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

The ethics police are swarming this one like flies on ****!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

'Lesser ethics?' 'Bad habits?' 

Wow...Who are you to decide that your ethics are on a higher plane than someone else's? What a bunch of bull. 

SMH....


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## HotWapities (Aug 26, 2010)

Wasn't deciding anyones ethics are higher then others, as an instructor I was charged with having open discussions with the youth who have a desire to hunt. If you would note the last few comments of mine,"YOU are the only referee when you are out there. YOU will make the call, just be sure you are not passing your bad habits on to the next generation because they look to you for the ethics they will adopt" 
That should tell you I am NOT forcing my ethics on anyone. I simply shared somthing I observed after 13 years of teaching kids about Hunter safety! 
That never did nor does that make me the "ethics police" either. Your ethics are yours and mine are mine. One of the things we will all do when it comes to ethics is that you will find yourself hunting with others who have similar ethics as you do because that's who you will feel comfortable with while hunting.....If they have a different code of ethics then you do you probably won't invite them to join you again. That's all. Wasn't trying to get anyone upset.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Here is my deal. I personally hunt and when successful, will eat what I harvest. And, I appreciate others that do the same.

However, what one guy does with the game he harvests is really none of my business. If he eats it, donates it, feeds it to his dog, or in all reality, leaves it for the coyotes and cougars, as long as he acquires his tag legally, hunts legally, and notches his tag with the kill, to each their own. 

I used to get really uptight about how other guys dealt with their game. I remember once seeing a hitch hauler loaded up with pronghorn in Wyoming. Those poor, frozen dead things were covered with diesel exhaust and road grime. I can't even ponder how horribly they must have tasted. I've seen guys that propped up an elk or deer on the truck and paraded it around town all day long in 70 degree weather. To a hunter that appreciates good venison, either of these behaviors are just as wasteful of the game as caping it out and leaving the rest on the mountain. 

We can all choose to be offended over anything. I guess what a guy does with his game animal is his business as long as it is within the law.


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

I never knew someone could hunt to much .Not possible. If I told my wife I hunted way to much this year. She would check me into the psych ward.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

I find it very interesting how some folks are so insistent that we should stay out of one anothers business.

For you that feel that way try doing a little test before you go calling the rest of us "HI AND MIGHTY" or "INTERNET HERO'S" or some other thing.

When you are out hunting, fishing, camping, or driving through the outdoors. Take note of how YOUR choices and ethics affect anyone, or anything else around you.

If at the end of the day you can honestly tell yourself that your choices and actions had either no affect, or a possitive affect on those around you then by all means, feel free to have the opinion that people should stay out of your business.

If on the other hand you can't say this, or you find youself saying I REALLY DON'T GIVE A CRAP HOW WHAT I DO AFFECTS ANYONE. Then it is you that needs to make a change, not someone that is IN YOUR BUSINESS.

We all live in this world and anybody that can't live, work, hunt, fish etc. in a productive manner with those around them is part of the problem, it's not the other way around. It doesn't make me high and mighty because I feel that way. Most people feel that way they just let those who don't care run over the top of them without saying anything.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For those of you that think that a person can let the meat go to waist once they get it home how about just leaving the meat in the hills after they shoot it, take the head off of it and tag it? 

The last that I read in the guide books waisting the meat from a game animal is a offense weather in the field or at home. I have no problem with a hunter taking care of the animal and giving away all the meat as long as it gets used properly.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Truelife said:


> I find it very interesting how some folks are so insistent that we should stay out of one anothers business.
> 
> For you that feel that way try doing a little test before you go calling the rest of us "HI AND MIGHTY" or "INTERNET HERO'S" or some other thing.
> 
> ...


Very well put, thank you. If someone isn't part of the solution then they are part of the PROBLEM.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Wasting game is not an ethics quandary. It is against the law. Whether you are okay with it or not is irrelevant, because the law says you can't. 

However, shooting a duck off the water is not against the law. Knowing you are going to give away meat from your animal but not having the location set before you walk into the hills is not against the law. Hunting big game in 10 western states and tagging out in every state is not against the law. It was stated correctly that we all determine our own ethics. What sticks in my craw is when someone claims that someone else's ethics are "lesser" than that of their own. Again, who gets to decide? I wasn't the one that used "bad habits" and "lesser ethics"....those were quotes from someone else. To me, anyone that assumes their way of doing things are above that of another needs a serious reality check. How that is being "part of the solution" is beyond me. To me, the way we cannibalize ourselves as hunters is one of the major problems we face. 

If someone is within the boundaries of the law, you really should live and let live. Once they cross the line, make it your business for sure. But while they are entirely within the law, I ask again, who gets to decide if they were wrong or if you, in fact, are the one that is wrong in how you do things?


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Good points TS - I think in most cases we could all just live and let live even with a very wide range of ethics. I do however believe that there are some that take it to a level that it hurts our pashion from within and try to paint it as "ethical choices".

As you & I have both stated, there are many things listed in this thread that are just not about ethics, they are about the law. But so often we are raised in the hunting world to turn a blind eye to ANYTHING that other hunters are doing. Proof of that is the DWR creating the deal that if you turn in a poacher on a LE unit and it sticks you can get a tag for that unit. It should never have needed to come to that because we should all be willing to stop people from breaking the law.

I guess all I'm trying to say that I don't believe it would make everything better if we all just turned our backs and let everyone make whatever ethical choice they wanted to.

And why is someone who tries to stand up for what is beneficial to wildlife burned at the stake as the bad guy?

I have tried to make it clear that in my opinion I believe that it should be to each his own when it comes to ethics UNTIL those choices of someone else have a direct impact on my own hunting. Many are quick to say LEAVE ME ALONE AND STAY OUT OF MY BUSINESS! Yet at the same time they are not willing at all to stay out of my business.

Why does someone who is asked to be considerate of others so willing to jump right up and say OH, YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN ME!!

I don't think anybody has said they are better than anyone else here.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

30-06-hunter said:


> Very well put, thank you. If someone isn't part of the solution then they are part of the PROBLEM.


I say, "if you think you have to be part of the solution, you are most likely part of a bigger problem."

If you really want to be part of the real solution, focus on yourself and those you can have a positive influence on.

Just my opinion, but I can promise you that unless I am breaking the law, I fully expect you to stay out of my business. For the most part I could care less about your opinion on ethics. If I would like a second opinion, I will kindly ask.

I guess people have forgotten the value of independent thinking and living let alone a little privacy and anonymity. I submit that it is possible to live a good moral life without the input and constant interjection from others. Be your own man before you forget how. --------SS


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

I'm gonna stick with the MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS attitude. Like I said, I hate people who can't just worry about themselves


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

SS & Horn hunter - I am always willing to learn and try to always be willing to admit when I'm wrong. So please humor me with this, I am teachable.

Assume you have a Utah rifle deer tag. You have spent your summer enjoying the outdoors and hiking, spotting and preparing for your hunt. You've found some good bucks and make a plan for opening morning. You do what is necessary to be in the right spot at the right time with hopes of bagging your trophy buck.

10 minutes before daylight another hunter walks up. First he hacks up a lung for five minutes, then lights up a smoke. After he finishes his cigarette he walks within 10 feet of you and sits down on a rock about 20 feet right in front of you. 

It's obvious that he saw you and knows full well that you are there. It's also obvious that he doesn't give a rats what you think and so it can be assumed that you asking him nicely to find another spot to hunt isn't going to work.

So my question is what do you do?

I really do want to know because you are saying that we should all just mind our own business and let everyone else mind theirs. That's a great theory in a perfect world, but we don't have that luxury.

Please help me understand how to mind my own business in a situation like this because I don't think they are as rare as some of you make it sound.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

there is only two choices Truelife. 

A person to decide whether to engage into a confrontation or dismiss it. If they do choose to engage they had better know how far they are willing to take it in advance and have the where with all and ability to end the confrontation when needed. 

If a person asked themselves why they hunt to begin with the choice is pretty easy to make.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

I agree 100% Muleskinner, and that's why every time I find myself in a situation like that it's me that has my hunt ruined. I walk away and watch a summers worth of work and anticipation become fun memories rather than homework.

It gets pretty darn frustrating though and that's why I have a problem with people being so adimant that we should all just mind our own business. Of course the jerk wants me to mind his own business.

The bigger problem I see with the way this always plays out is the stand up guy that is willing to just walk away will eventually just quit hunting. I could save my hunting dollars and spend my time enjoying the wildlife and outdoors when the other guys isn't worried about providing me with direct competition. Then come hunting season i could just stay home and let the jerks fight it out on the hills.

I don't see how that is productive to our hunting sports.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Truelife,
First. If someone who hacks up a lung, and then lights up a cig is where you are hunting, you didn't hike in far enough. Second. No need to stand there with him. Start your hunt.

⫸<{{{{{⦅°>


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

You know I have hunted for a pretty good spell and have never had anything like that happen. It is hard to believe, for me at least, that it is a real common occurrence. Like Fishrmn says, get further away. I have always found that there are more good hunting spots than there are good hunters.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Fisherman, I didn't mention that he just got off his horse ;-)

I don't want to get the horsemen up in arms. Most of them are great, and most of the other guys are too. But some are not great.

There are 1001 scenarios that could have been mentioned. My point is just that I think minding our own business is a two way street. So many profess to believe in live and let live, but what they really want is to live however they want and to hell with everyone else. That is not the same thing.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> You know I have hunted for a pretty good spell and have never had anything like that happen. It is hard to believe, for me at least, that it is a real common occurrence. Like Fishrmn says, get further away. I have always found that there are more good hunting spots than there are good hunters.


I guess I'll have to give that a try Muleskinner and Fisherman. I will say that the spots I personally hunt are generally a 2 - 3 hour hike in and in almost all cases (in my experience) it has been someone on a horse that doesn't care about anyone else.

I have also had this happen while fishing on a few occasions, and many times while waterfowl hunting.

I would much rather just find somewhere else rather than dealing with this kind of thing though. I'll make that objective high on the priority list.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Find somewhere else in advance while scouting. If you have a few spots set up within the same area you are good. If you have a guy that is smoking on one hole I guarantee it makes the others near it all the better.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Find somewhere else in advance while scouting. If you have a few spots set up within the same area you are good. If you have a guy that is smoking on one hole I guarantee it makes the others near it all the better.


That's a great idea, I never thought of that. I usta smoke at *all *my elk holes......uh...I did really good though.

Anyway, nothing wrong with enjoying a good smoke up in the high country, but you should bury those butts though. ****, I hate seeing those butts in the elk timber.

Cigarette smoke didn't bother the elk where I hunt, but the coughing kinda spooked them so I quit smoking.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

30-06-hunter said:


> If someone isn't part of the solution then they are part of the PROBLEM.


As much as simply turning a blind eye to illegal activity is irresponsible and damaging to the sport, I also feel that the perpetuation of ethical "over zealousy" has equal share as being "part of the PROBLEM."

Do not interpret my lack of ethical "over zealousy" as apathy. I choose to allow others to participate in their outdoors pursuits (legally) according to their own individual ethics and expect the same in return.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

If you think you are going to change a persons ethics with a lecture or a confrontation you are in for disappointment. Pick up your stuff, hunt elsewhere. Its public land and they have just as much right to be there as you do--sure they are unethical but you are not changing it, either on the mountain or on an internet forum. This persons actions are a result of the way they were raised, you aint changin it! Concerning ethics-> the best thing you can do is to try the best to raise your children right and be a good example to others, and that includes minding your own business a lot of the time.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

Airborne said:


> If you think you are going to change a persons ethics with a lecture or a confrontation you are in for disappointment. Pick up your stuff, hunt elsewhere. Its public land and they have just as much right to be there as you do--sure they are unethical but you are not changing it, either on the mountain or on an internet forum. This persons actions are a result of the way they were raised, you aint changin it! Concerning ethics-> the best thing you can do is to try the best to raise your children right and be a good example to others, and that includes minding your own business a lot of the time.


one of the better statements concerning this thread so far,


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

sagebrush said:


> one of the better statements concerning this thread so far,


Agreed, I don't really like the fact of it, but I do agree.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

I have had the scenario that "Truelife" discribed many times over the years. For the most part I have just walked away.

But in my old age I have gotten tired of peoples bad behavior. While I will continue to leave, I refuse to go quietly.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Having someone come in your lap the you in the way you described IS your business. Your neighbor hunting more than you think he should is NOT. 

Let's compare apples to apples if you want to have a discussion about this.


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## DarKHorN (Mar 4, 2012)

TS30 said:


> Having someone come in your lap the you in the way you described IS your business. Your neighbor hunting more than you think he should is NOT.
> 
> Let's compare apples to apples if you want to have a discussion about this.


Careful this is a family forum. This is funny ^^^^


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

I don't think the question or topic is how much a fella hunts, but more how he handles his hunts. There is nothing illegal about killing 10 deer a year in multiple states, nor is there anything ethically wrong with it. 

Where the topic takes a turn is how did said hunter plan on dealing with ten deer? Did they lay on his rv pad for a week or two before finally being processed and delivered to someone he just made a token phone call to in order to get rid of the smell after his wife complained for two days straight? Still not illegal as long as no meat was wasted, ethical?? Ehhh not so much...

I really think it comes down to what I said earlier, there is no such thing as hunting too much as long as you plan for it! It's no big deal to make a few phone calls to friends, local church's, and organizations so that you have a clear idea of what will happen to the animal after the hunt. 

A fella should never ever put himself in a position where friends or neighbors start to wonder what that dead thing is doing and if he is doing anything wrong...there really is no need for it... IMHO


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