# Info on Primers



## Blue Steel (Sep 29, 2007)

I realize that the first commandment of reloading is to follow your data and never substitute components. I was wondering how much of a difference there is between say CCI 200 and Winchester WLR primers. The reason I ask is, depending on which book I'm looking at, I can find loads calling for either one with basically the same powder charge and bullet weight. Assuming I'm loading up a 25-06 with a 117 gr bullet and 54 gr of powder, would using either primer make alot of difference? If so, could somebody point me in the direction of the information that supports this.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

No it wouldn't make a difference if you substitute a different brand primer as long as you loading up from a safe level. The manufactures found thier best results with the primer they recomend but that doesn't mean you'll get the same results. If you change primers you'll need to reduce your load and do it all over again. In my experience, primers make more difference in accuracy than pressure, but they can make a difference in pressure so it's always wise to back down a few grains and test your loads again.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Primers come in different strengths, technically known as "brisance," a word defined as "the shattering effect of a high explosive."
Primer brisance mostly depends on the length of the flame that leaps out of the flash-hole after the firing pin whacks the primer cup. This flame can also be manipulated to last a little longer, by adding tiny particles of other flammable material to the priming compound. These differences really can effect not just accuracy but pressure - _according to an article by John Barsness - GUNS magazine May 2009._
I don't believe that there is any real industry standard, but primers are generally grouped as "magnum" with a lot of brisance, or "standard" with less brisance. However, in the Standard category there are variations between manufacturers as well. Remington and CCI primers tend to be the mildest "standard" primers and Winchesters the hottest (_the reason that Winchester never had a magnum rifle LR primer until recently_), with Federals somewhere between.

So you can expect that pressures would likely be higher switching from the mild CCI 200 to the hotter WLR primer. Because we do not know what pressures or velocity is with your current load, it would be hard to predict if the primer switch with no other changes would put you over max. Obviously other sources think not - but that could depend on other factors as well, including bullet or case used.

Winchester WLR primers would likely be preferred to load ball powder that is a little harder to ignite. Sometimes this will result in a smaller group as well.

Something else to remember is that competition rifle shooters often favor mild primers _i.e._ primers that produce just enough heat to properly ignite the powder. They feel that as primer brisance gets higher, it also gets less repeatable from primer to primer. Another train of thought is that the powder is ignited a tad more gently. When this happens, the front slope of the pressure curve is less steep. Which means the bullet is pushed a tad more gently into the rifling which tends to deform it less. Whatever the scientific reason, competitive rifle shooters seem to feel that the milder primers give both better velocity uniformity and accuracy.
Whether or not you could actually see a difference in a standard hunting rifle and load with a high-performance round like the .25-06 is unknown.

I did a lot of research on primers for another gun forum's reloading section - and this is just some of the stuff I compiled from various experts - so I hope it helps you make decisions on primer choices easier to make.


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## Blue Steel (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I got to thinking about this because the last time I bought brass, I bought it already primed. Never really thought about what primer was used, but assumed that since it was remington brass it had remington primers. It seems like most available loads I find call for WLR, unless I'm looking at speer bullets, then everything is CCI. Is there any reading available that will show the different brisance variations between each brand of primer? Something similar to a burn rate chart for powder.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ranked in order of power

Large Rifle = LR, Large Rifle Magnum = LRM, Large pistol =LP, 

Brand/type Power Average Range Std. Dev

1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12 5.23-6.8 .351
2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69 5.2-6.5 .4437
3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66 4.5-7.4 .4832
4 Winchester WLRM 5.45 5.1-6.0 .2046
5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09 3.5-6.75 .6641
6 Winchester WLR 4.8 4.1-6.0 .4300
7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75 3.7-6.25 .5679
8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64 4.0-5.6 .3296
9 Federal 210 LR 4.62 3.7-5.5 .3997
10 CCI BR2 4.37 4.0-5.0 .2460
11 CCI 200 LR 4.28 3.8-4.8 .3218
12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27 3.8-4.8 .2213
13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old) 4.16 3.8-4.8 .3427

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pistol primers
14 Rem LP 4.47 3.2-5.6 .5171
15 KVB 45 LP Russian 3.89 3.3-4.2 .2232
16 CCI 300 LP 3.18 2.7-3.5 .2406
17 Federal 150 LP 3.11 2.6-3.5 .2090
18 Fed Match GM150M 3.05 2.6-3.7 .2299


-DallanC


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## Blue Steel (Sep 29, 2007)

Exactly what I was looking for thanks Dallan.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Good info DallonC, I could use that too.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

16+ years ago I bought a 25.06, I got some information at that time that my best loads would probably result from using MAGNUM primers.
That theory has proven accurate to the degree that I NEVER use anything but Magnum primers. CCI-250's to be exact, and I have gotten quite a few different loads that group 5 rounds under .5 inch and at least 4 that group under .33 inch.
The advice I was given was to start building my load by reducing it 10%, and with ONE exception, I have never had a pressure issue in over 16 years of building custom loads for my gun.
In fact it has never fired a single round of factory ammo, in all the hundreds and hundreds of rounds I have put through it. 8) 
The one pressure incident remains unexplained to this day, as I have NO idea which one of several mistakes I made on that batch was the kicker.  But that is ONE time in god only knows how many loading sessions, and it ended with no damage to me or the gun, so I learned the MOST important lesson, and it only cost me one seriously deformed case, and a raging case of reloaders nerves for awhile. :shock: -)O(- 
Which are still noticeably active, so awhile is not over yet. :mrgreen:


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## ripndrag (Mar 16, 2009)

please stop hoarding primers pepole i need large rifle primers and cant get any :evil: you guys think you need 200000+ primers realy? i need like 300 for my 22-250 the guys at sportsmans warehouse said they had to limit pepole to 2000 a day they should make the limit 200 a day so we all can get some. if anyone has fedral large match primers i will pay top dollar for some just pm me.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I don't shoot alot of rifle so I don't use many, but in pistol I try to have 1000 to 4000 of each large and small pistol primers in stock, because it is nothing to sit down and load 100 to 200 rounds in just one sitting. On the range I may shoot that much every time I go out. Just yesterday I was in cabelas and bought 2000 large pistol and 2000 small pistol primers. Not trying to hoard but I do like to reload several pistol calibers.

I think I only have 500 to 1000 large rifle in stock and about 1500 small rifle primers in stock, I go through small rifle more because my AR rifle and AR pistol eat them up like candy. :wink:


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