# Youth Any Bull



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have a cousin from California that put his two boys in for the any bull hunt this year. My problem is that I am not that familiar with the any bull units except for around Oak City. He is looking at the south west corner of the state since he would be able to get there and do some scouting. 

So any help you can give me would help his boys out a lot. He'll be able to get out scouting a couple of times this summer so a general location to send him would be great.


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

Gotta draw the tag first...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

horn hunter said:


> Gotta draw the tag first...


I won't say that they have a lock on it but last year there were 30 tags for 36 applicants so the odds look real good.

But then if it was me putting in for a tag with those kind of odds I would be one of the 6 that didn't draw. Been there done that.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

That is one of the best tags in the state.. Don't know the area or I would cough up my 2 cents.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Do you have an approximate area? Distance a concern? Access to pack animals?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

His pack animals are his boys. He is thinking about the Uinta's but he has never been to them to know what he might get into. I suggested Pine Valley southwest of Cedar City but I have never hunted that area of the state.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Looking at the SW corner of the state there's the west side of the Beaver unit that went Any Bull last year. 
Although, I was expecting to hear more about it after the seasons closed but surprisingly I didn't hear much... there may be a reason.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I haven't hunted the Pine Valley area either. If they need somewhere that they could get to in relatively short matter of time I would consider Murdock Basin. It gets hit pretty hard during the bow hunt and the elk will push towards the east but it would be a good hunt with them rutting. 

The Blacks Fork is another good drainage that holds a fair amount of elk and they would probably be successful. The Blacks Fork is just dang pretty too. Every time I go there it makes me wish I was there more often. There are some great spots right along the river to set up camp, elk hunt and a get line wet.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

derekp1999 said:


> Looking at the SW corner of the state there's the west side of the Beaver unit that went Any Bull last year.
> Although, I was expecting to hear more about it after the seasons closed but surprisingly I didn't hear much... there may be a reason.


There were a lot of 300+ bulls that came off that unit last year. I'm sure there will be a few left over for this year.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'll tell you what,
Unless a guy has a general any bull elk unit he knows EXTREAMLY well,
OR has private ground, That youth hunt can be/is one of the hardest/toughest
in the state..I personal woudn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, We would do general in 
Wyoming for a hunt that is at least 2 or 3x better than Utahs youth elk hunts..........


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Critter. Not being able to draw that tag for my son is one my great disappointments in the past several years. There are some great spots in Utah for that tag. The Uintas have many of them.

Having grown up in Wyoming. I agree with Goofy but not to the extent of saying it is two or three times as good and certainly not to the extent that the tag is not worth getting.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

He put in for the early hunt so that is one of the things that he has going for them. I also agree with Goofy. Wyoming and Colorado both have youth hunts that in my opinion are better than Utah's but as I said Utah does have the early rifle hunt where they can hunt elk in the rut. 

Right now we are in the wait and see until the tags are drawn and then if they do draw the work will start for them. He is still looking at the Uinta's.


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

As long as they will be happy with rag bulls! You guys got to remember that is a general season hunt! Not a trophy hunt! Yes there are 300+ bulls in every open bull unit. But they are hard to come by! 

There are a lot of good areas to choose from! I'd personally look towards the Uinta's. But beVer west, Zion are good as well


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> I'll tell you what,
> Unless a guy has a general any bull elk unit he knows EXTREAMLY well,
> OR has private ground, That youth hunt can be/is one of the hardest/toughest
> in the state..I personal woudn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, We would do general in
> Wyoming for a hunt that is at least 2 or 3x better than Utahs youth elk hunts..........


Didn't one of your kids draw this tag a few years ago??


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Elkaholic2 said:


> As long as they will be happy with rag bulls! You guys got to remember that is a general season hunt! Not a trophy hunt! Yes there are 300+ bulls in every open bull unit. But they are hard to come by!


I wouldn't feel bad for any 12-17 year old kid that gets to hunt in a season with very few other people statewide that has to chase only "rag bulls." If one of my kids draws out on this hunt one day down the road, we will be more than content to chase sub-300 inch bulls. In fact, I think we'd be stoked to chase sub-200 inch bulls on that hunt!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I would pay double my general tag fee to have that hunt for myself.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Elkaholic2 said:


> As long as they will be happy with rag bulls! You guys got to remember that is a general season hunt! Not a trophy hunt! Yes there are 300+ bulls in every open bull unit. But they are hard to come by!
> 
> There are a lot of good areas to choose from! I'd personally look towards the Uinta's. But beVer west, Zion are good as well


My first big game animal was a doe antelope. To this day it one of my most memorable moments and greatest "trophies".

If you had a nephew that came in from California and got one would you be cheering him on or telling him he just got a raghorn?

P A T H E T I C


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

I agree with Mr Mule, should be a fun hunt. Another vote for the Blacks Fork drainage. Holds a decent amount of elk for the Uintahs and like he said you can't beat it for beauty.


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> My first big game animal was a doe antelope. To this day it one of my most memorable moments and greatest "trophies".
> 
> If you had a nephew that came in from California and got one would you be cheering him on or telling him he just got a raghorn?
> 
> P A T H E T I C


You took that way out of perspective!

Not to drag ridge top into this. But he stated that beaver west produce several 300+ bulls. All I was trying to say is that, don't come on that hunt expecting to kill the biggest elk in utah! A mature bull is a tall order on most open bull units.

And if they are ok with a spike. Then so be it. It's their hunt. I'm just letting them know what to expect as far as bulls go. And what kind of hunt to expect. I would want to know that coming from California. Every one that gets that youth early tag thinks they just drew the best trophy bull tag in the west! When there are good bulls taken on that hunt. I Would hate to see a kid come in with high hopes only to be disappointed. Because everyone thinks they should kill a six bull on that hunt.

And I think blacks fork is the best place to hunt elk on the north slope. Even better than Whitney, hoop lake and poison mountain. Most of the north slope herd resides in blacks fork drainage. Should be a good hunt for the kid. I hope he can kill any bull. If he draws the tag.

Pathetic? Maybe your the pathetic one. I know that your very narrow minded!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Now now....don't make me separate you two!!! I will pull this car over right now! -O,-

I used to fish the West Fork of the Blacks Fork when I was younger. I need to go back there. You are right....very beautiful!


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

TS30 said:


> Now now....don't make me separate you two!!! I will pull this car over right now! -O,-
> 
> Haha,
> 
> Sorry muley skinner! I should have been clearer in that post. Sorry. Next time I'll make sure it's translucent before I hit the send button. But it could've been bushes fault more than mine:mrgreen:


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Oh no worries. If you have me figured out for being very narrow minded within the time you have been here.........well I will just leave it at that.

The youth hunt was never intended to be a "trophy" hunt though. If it were it would not be done on the general areas. It was intended to give youth a golden opportunity hunt to pursue elk during the rut. Mission accomplished there.

The north slope carries more elk than people think the Blacks Fork is a great place but there are elk in many other areas. The areas we hunt year in and year out hold a lot a of elk too.;-)


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

For the record I would venture to say that I have probably learned as much as anybody on this forum since the start of 2012. Gotta be a little receptive for that to happen.

As far as it being Bush's fault........everything I have read said he never did a thing.


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> For the record I would venture to say that I have probably learned as much as anybody on this forum since the start of 2012. Gotta be a little receptive for that to happen.
> 
> As far as it being Bush's fault........everything I have read said he never did a thing.


I have never found that weather machine they talked about! But then again, I never really have looked for it

But I could use the defense " I inherited this thread". So it's not my fault!

Anyway,

Your right about saying its a general hunt for youth opportunity. That's what I meant too. You know as well as I do that someone will get on here after the draw asking where they can kill a 320+ bull with the youth tag! If that's how they are looking at this hunt. They will go away with a sour taste in their mouths. You hunt the unita's, you know that even coming up with a rag bull can be challenging let alone just coming up with elk. It can be an extremely tough hunt.

That's all I was trying to point out. Personally I feel that any bull in open bull units are well earned and should be trophies in the eye of the beholder! Any animal can be that way.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Youth any bull is of the best general hunts in the state. Had the opportunity as a kid and the opportunity is plentiful. Great season dates, low competition. In a lot of units you not only have the chance at a bull, but a good size one at that! (Going of old standards, not these new freak o nature 350 or it sucks standards; but a 300, its do able).


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

the old standards are still my standards. I grew up just outside of Yellowstone and they were the standard back then. A 300" bull still makes me turn my head and I will never downplay one. They are not lesser creatures.


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

All this uinta elk talk makes it hard to wait for October! And maybe archery if I can pull a cow tag again!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Me too. I love the Uintas. Home away from home. Can't wait to get back up there. I actually put off drawing my LE tag this year to go back up again. Crazy. Hunted the Wasatch LE with my brother last year and while it was a great hunt we both missed getting away like you can up in the Uintas. So many favorite places up there. I feel bad for the people that have never made it back there a ways with a few good friends


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

Amen to that!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I'll tell you what,
> Unless a guy has a general any bull elk unit he knows EXTREAMLY well,
> OR has private ground, That youth hunt can be/is one of the hardest/toughest
> in the state..I personal woudn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, We would do general in
> Wyoming for a hunt that is at least 2 or 3x better than Utahs youth elk hunts..........


How do you figure? I have no experience with it, but how does a rifle tag in the rut before any other rifle hunt equate to the hardest/toughest hunts? Certainly it isnt like fish in a barrel, but....?? Speaking of the early hunt myself.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> How do you figure? I have no experience with it, but how does a rifle tag in the rut before any other rifle hunt equate to the hardest/toughest hunts? Certainly it isnt like fish in a barrel, but....?? Speaking of the early hunt myself.


SOOOOOO many BETTER hunts it's not even funny ....

Utahs general deer on most units SMOKE the youth any bull ....

IMO, Utahs any bull hunts suck ... Very bottom of the barrel.
I've got better stuff to do and better hunts to go on.........JMHO.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I would still pay double to have a general hunt during the rut. I will take the any bull unit hunts over the spike only option ANY and EVERY day.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Yeah, I really am confused how Utah's any bull, especially during the rut, is the "Very bottom of the barrel". Don't give me this outta state crap, because you are saying it is the bottom of the barrel in this state. You pullin LE tags every year? Cow, every year? Spike? I would take the Uintas Any Bull over a number of general deer hunts.........

"I've got better stuff to do and better hunts to go on"

Not sure what elk tags you are landing every year in the state that leave you with no time to any bull hunt?


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

I find it funny that every hunt goofy hates, is also the same hunt that he got his ass kicked on and didn't fill a tag. Too bad that's all the "guides" care about anymore, is the kill. That part either makes it the best hunt in the world or the worst hunt in the world. Sometimes even the gods of elk hunting can't fill all the tags. Doesn't mean it's not a good hunt... I would have LOVED to have that opportunity to go on that hunt as a kid


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## goforbroke (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm with goofy. For the cost I can and did apply my son in new mexico, wyoming, and Arizona for hunts with better draw odds, higher harvest success and lower or similar cost. draw odds are so poor I didn't even apply for youth any bull in utah. I wish they let them at least start to get points for LE elk or deer.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I think if a kid can't kill a 320"+ bull in the rut, then he must not be much of a hunter.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I am starting to see where all of the goofy criticizers originate. I can appreciate that it may be overblown, but bottom of the barrel??? -O,-


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

I hate to break away from the usual pick on goofy thread but there is a way to determine the 'quantifiable quality' of this hunt. One could look at the success rate of this hunt compared to the success rate of a youth over the counter Colorado elk hunt or a youth general elk tag in Wyoming. This is putting aside the unquantifiable 'happiness factor' that we have from having a tag in our pocket. I don't have time to look up these stats but it would be interesting to see how it stacks up. 

My inclination is that the 6% draw odds for this tag is probably pretty low compared to the harvest rate if you look at other hunts that have similar odds. 

Speaking for myself; if I had a kid who could shoot straight out to 100 yards, and get an animal in the scope quick (hard for kids sometimes). I am confident I could get them a bull. This is because I put 5 years of hard work learning an area not to mention learning about horses and paying for the dumb things, that's a tremendous commitment in and of itself. I am thinking that the majority of folks that draw this tag have little to no experience in the area, no access to ponies, with a kid who can't shoot too well and you have a recipe for tag soup.

Not saying it's a poor tag, it just takes a little more than driving around listening for bugles to find success on this hunt. The same can be said for the general elk hunt--what's the success rate on that hunt anyway--like 10% or something--I don't know.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I think Airborne nails it. The Any Bull areas are not like the LE areas for elk numbers. They certainly are not 'easy' hunts. But if someone knows where the elk are in an area, and has the ability to get to them, this hunt will result in a great chance to kill a bull. 

Goofy is being a little dramatic, as he can be at times, when he says 'bottom of the barrel.' There are far worse hunts in Utah than these. For many going out of state just really isn't a realistic notion. The odds are terrible, so a lot of kids will just be donating six $10 application fees to the state over their time applying. But I'll put my kids in for it.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Hmmmmm, let's breakdown some numbers to see if certain claims are true or false. You guys can decide.

Success Rates-
Utah Youth Any Bull- 33%
Utah Archery LE Elk- 33%
Utah Gen Archery Elk- 13%
Utah Gen ML Anybull- 15%
Utah Gen Rifle Anybull- 17%
Utah Gen Rifle Spike- 16% 
Colorado 2nd Season- 6% to 25% (Success rate includes anterless harvest)
Wyoming General Elk- 20-25% BUT nonresident success is in the 10-18% range
Idaho General Elk- 17% 

So you guys can look at those numbers and deduce what you wish. 

I will say that my personal opinion is 
-I like the hunt.
-It is not easy, it is a hunt.
-If adults had these tags the success rate would easily double- kids take longer to acquire the target, miss, and can't spend as much time hunting as an adult.
-Points do not work on these types of permits- glad they are not given with points.
-I feel bad for the kid who is talked into trophy hunting on this tag. And I feel bad for the kid whose dad makes him feel like having this tag is a waste. 
I could tell you guys lots of great stories and memories made by holders of youth tags, both successful and unsuccessful tag holders.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

So then, if not general any bull elk, what is the "bottom of the barrel" hunt in Utah ??????


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Well, call me a monkey's uncle! I would have thought the success rate would be much lower than that-->totally worth putting in for then. I trust ya Packout, but can you post your sources for the Utah stats please? I would be interested in looking at those.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> So then, if not general any bull elk, what is the "bottom of the barrel" hunt in Utah ??????


West Desert West Deer


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

goofy elk said:


> So then, if not general any bull elk, what is the "bottom of the barrel" hunt in Utah ??????


That is a really really good question Goofy. For me it would probably have to be a hunt that I would not go on and to be honest I can't think of one.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> So then, if not general any bull elk, what is the "bottom of the barrel" hunt in Utah ??????


A guided one??


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> So then, if not general any bull elk, what is the "bottom of the barrel" hunt in Utah ??????


It's a tie between the snow goose hunt in delta and the pheasant hunt...

If you're talking LE drawing, definitely most spring bear tags are "bottom of the barrel"


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> A guided one??


NOT for non-residents-----They seem to REALLY like guided hunts..


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Airborne- the data came off the the UDWR 2012 Big Game Report. Page 87. Interesting note is that I'd think the private lands units such as East Canyon and Morgan would have the highest success rates, but they don't. If we take out the poor kids whose Dads drug them down to the Henry Mtns or out on the West Desert then the success rates would be higher. haha Oh and I LOVE to hunt the West Desert-West deer unit. 

The worst hunt? Any hunt with someone who has a poor attitude makes for a poor hunt. I tend to enjoy most every hunt if I educate myself, have reachable expectations, and don't stress about the tag. 
The hardest hunt for me and my family? General turkey with my sons here in Utah, but the lack of success has driven my sons even harder to try to kill one. I hope we don't as I want to see just how much more they can want it!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

martymcfly73 said:


> A guided one??


first time Red Bull came out of my nose


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

There have been some zingers! told today--classic Mcfly and horn hunters bottom of the barrel was pretty funny too--I am impressed fella's

I said west desert west deer was bad based on harvest rates, if I remember it was the lowest of the general deer but I could be wrong. Glad Packout is finding some success in it and thanks for the stats reference.


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## ARCHER11 (May 26, 2011)

I would absolutely love for my younger brother to pull this tag! I spent the last week of the archery hunt in the uintas two years ago. I could have killed bulls with a rifle every day of the 9 days we hunted. The best bull we saw was a 260" ish 6 point so it's not necessarily a trophy unit by some standards but there isn't a place I love more than the high uintas! For me, to spend time in a place like the uintas with a chance at a raghorn is more than enough for an amazing hunt!


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Airborne said:


> There have been some zingers! told today--classic Mcfly and horn hunters bottom of the barrel was pretty funny too--I am impressed fella's
> 
> I said west desert west deer was bad based on harvest rates, if I remember it was the lowest of the general deer but I could be wrong. Glad Packout is finding some success in it and thanks for the stats reference.


Both the west desert units are tough. I've hunted the tintic unit a lot and the last 5-10 years have been brutal. I still love the area though. A few brutes but hard to find.


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