# I need someone with gun knowledge to help me



## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

My grandfather just passed down to me the first custom rifle he ever built back in the 80's. 

30-375 custom Douglas barrel. He did the stock himself and all that. Very excited to have this gun. I will post some pics but I have some questions about this gun that unfortunately my grandfather can't really answer very clearly. My grandpa has had a few strokes the last few years and while he is some what able to speak and articulate things, he can't always get the words out that he is thinking in his head. 

I know this is a 30 cal, but I don't understand the different variation of the 30 cal. 

Luckily I got a small stock of ammo with it and his reloading recipes.

Can someone explain to me what makes the variations of the 30 cal different from each other? As I understand it the 30-06 is another variation, and I have shot one of those for years. But I don't really understand what exactly makes the two different if they are the "same" 30 caliber. I know how the round is designed is part of it but I guess I don't have tons of technical knowlwdge about rifles and reloading, however I plan to know more. Hopefully you guys can help a little with that and tell me what you think of the rifle.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

*It won't let me post more than one pic at a time*

Another pic


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Two things to consider, the diameter of the bullet and the size/shape of the case. Caliber is a combination of the two.

Things get wierd with case naming, like the 30-30 was straight forward: 30 caliber bullet in a case that held 30 grns of black powder. The 30-06 however, was made in 1906 hence the '06 portion of the name. But both use .30 caliber bullets

Your dads gun sounds like it was made from a .375 caliber gun reduced to shoot 30 caliber bullets. A Custom setup for sure, especially that he made the stock himself. I dont know anything specifically about 30-375 calibers, if any ammo manufacturer ever made ammunition you can buy, otherwise you will have to reload / make your own ammo.

I'm sure someone with more experience than me will chime in soon.


-DallanC


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Thanks so much for the reply, that explanation makes perfect sense. I knew they were all the same caliber but took different size rounds. Just because they are all .30 cal doesn't mean they could interchangeably use the same rounds. The rounds he gave me with them are different than I have ever seen, they have an elongated neck that tapers down less dramatically than the 30-06 shells I use in my other rifle. Pic will be posted.

DallanC have you ever seen a round like this?


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

He also gave me these


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

It says on one of your photos 300 hh imp can you post a photo of the spent case neck? 
Just trying to rule out some sort of ackley improved version. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

This is a 300 hh ackley improved round after fire forming. Your fired cartridge may have a shoulder like this minus the bullet










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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Buck master - I don't have any spent casings. All these are loaded and ready to shoot. Or am I misunderstanding your question?

This is how little i know about reloading. I am thinking I am not understanding your question.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I have always just shot federal over the counter rounds out of my 30-06


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Fire one and see if the shoulder changes look at this photo. This is a regular .243 on the right with bullet. After its fired the shoulder changes like the bullet on the left










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## Ali-MAc (Jul 12, 2013)

The rounds you have look like 300 H&H, that is the 300 Holland and Holland, the original belted magnum cartridge that the others like the 300 win magnum descend from.

The fact the label says 300 H$H IMP means it may have an Ackley Improved chamber, this means that the shoulder is different to accommodate more powder, you can fire regular H&H rounds in it but they will then be fire formed to the improved chamber shape.

Your best bet if not sure will be to get a gun smith to cast the chamber (take an impression of it) and slug the barrel to confirm exactly what the chamber and bore are.

That being said, a lot of barrels have the caliber stamped on the side so look there first.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Now if it's a 30 375 this post may help you out

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/30-375-ruger-opinions-65446/

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

However none of the photos of a 30 375 look like the cartridge photo you posted so I'm guessing you have a 300 hh ackley improved version. 

Where did you get 30 375? Is it stamped on the barrel? 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

If it's stamped on the barrel don't fire those rounds they may not belong to that rifle. 

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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

It's a custom Douglas 30-375 barrel, stamped on the side. 

Buckmaster, I will be firing some this week getting ready for the elk hunt. I will post a pic here of the spent case.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

They are 300 h&h, stamped on the bottom of the casing.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I can't find a single photo of a 30 375 on the net that looks like the bullets you posted a photo of. I would not fire the bullets you have in that gun!! Until you have a gun smith have a look at them. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I can find 300 hh that look like yours









This makes me believe the box you have may belong to a 300 hh ackley improved like is written on the label.

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

TPrawitt91 said:


> They are 300 h&h, stamped on the bottom of the casing.


I dont think those bullets don't belong to that gun!!

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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

So if I understand correct, they should have .375 on the bottom of the cartridge and be fire formed to a .30 neck?


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Sorry I don't know more about this guys...


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

They should have .375 stamped on the bottom and they should be neck sized down to 30 caliber like the long range link I posted. 

Don't shoot those bullets!!

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Ok found a photo of .375 hh looks like he neck sized that case down to 30 375.










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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Should be OK to shoot. 


Scratch that it says 300 hh on your brass not 375. Back to don't shoot until a gun smith has a look. Better to be safe then sorry.

If your in Salt Lake city area take it to my friend at JD Precision arms 

5892 Palm frond ct
West Jordan
Number is 801 414-6639

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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm glad I posted this to make sure. Luckily I will be up in Wyoming at his house this next weekend and I can discuss it more with him then. I will just make sure the ol 30-06 is ready to go as well. From my basic understanding of rifles I kinda needed a little help with this. Thanks a ton for helping and responding guys. Like I said in the first post my grandfather has had some health setbacks, so I wouldn't put it past him to grab the wrong box of shells. That being said you have definitely helped me learn something and that is why I joined this forum. Thanks buckmaster


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am in salt lake area and what would he charge me? Do I tell him you sent me?

And I agree better safe than sorry, that's why I thought I better ask haha


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Wild cat rounds are fun in some ways a pain in the butt in others. One thing for sure is its probably a shooter and you will learn alot about guns reloading for it. 

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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am super excited about having this gun. Gramps says it is definitely a shooter and has plenty "experience" in the field. Just really want to know everything about it before I take it out. Kinda hard to feel comfortable with a rifle in 2 weeks. Especially because I had never heard of 30-375 before this morning.

Also has a nice scope


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I've never heard of one either until this post. The writing on the box on your first photos is exactly how I write on my box of 243 ackley improved lables. Thus the red flag. 

Stock looks awesome!

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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> Now if it's a 30 375 this post may help you out
> 
> http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/30-375-ruger-opinions-65446/
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


A 30-375 H&H and 30-375 Ruger are different...Since this was made in the '80s, I'm going with a 30-375 H&H.

I know nothing about this particular cartridge, and would assume the cases would be made by necking 375 H&H brass down to .30 cal. That's why I'm a little lost by the loaded rounds being 300 H&H mag.

I agree though, id have it checked out by a gunsmith to see exactly what the chambering is.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For this year I would leave your grandfathers rifle in the safe or closet and go hunting with the 06. Then do a lot of talking with him about his rifle. Just what it is set up for, how to make the brass for it to shoot, and powder loading's for it.

Now it is just my speculation from a number of years shooting wildcat cartridges but here goes:
The 300HH round was based off of the 375HH round. Both use the same case head diameter and the same length of case.

So and this is just SPECULATION but I would say that you could fire form the 300HH cases in the rifle to make the 30-375 round. What this does if you don't understand is that when you shoot the 300HH round in the 30-375 rifle it will form the case to the dimensions of the chamber of the rifle and then you just need to reload these cases to make use of the extra powder capacity of the new formed case.

This is where you need to talk to your grandfather about


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

What you have been given is a "magnum" rifle.

Everyone has a different tolerance level for recoil, so the first question you need to answer is whether you can tolerate the recoil of this gun.

In my own experience, the 30-30, 308, 30-06, and the 300's of various specification are all within my own tolerance level for pain on recoil, but the 338 mag is NOT.

So if your 375 (necked down, apparently) is as painful for you as my 338 was for me, then you are going to need to get rid of it and get a smaller cartridge rifle.

I like the .308" (7.8 mm) caliber for big game hunting. The dynamics of the various bullets in this caliber from 150 to 200 grains is fantastic. My favorite is the 200 grain for deer and elk. A 200 grain 30 cal bullet will kill anything in North or South America.

I like to push this bullet with a 300 RUM cartridge and rifle. The recoil is not as bad as my 338 used to be.

After enough shooting and hunting you will eventually develop a favorite of your own.

Whether that becomes you granddaddy's 375 (necked down to .308" has yet to be seen. But essentially what you have been given is a magnum hunting rifle, and the question is will it hurt too much to shoot it.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm not really worried about the recoil, I have shot his 338 before and it does pack a punch. I'm 6'4" 230lbs so a rather big guy, and haven't really shot a gun that the recoil has worried me. Thanks so much to everyone for responding to this, I have already learned a lot and have a list of questions for when I see him this weekend.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Bring it by sometime I'll help you figure it out don't assume the case can be made from 300 hh brass as it could be designed to move the shoulder forward in which case you need the larger neck to hold the headspace as its a belted round and all belted rounds headspace off the belt and not the shoulder it's pretty easy to chamber a bomb. What you probably have is a case slightly longer than a 300 win with a case capacity somewhere between the 300 win and the 300 weatherby.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Alright let's talk about this a little more. It's been a while since I had time to think about this rifle, getting ready to have a child and all. But, my brother and I fired roughly 30 rounds of the load on the right through the 30-375, after my great uncle agreed with grandpa that these are the starting rounds for the rifle. This was done last October. They are 300 h&h 150 grain rounds. Pics are in a previous post. The rounds were all over the place and it wasn't just our shooting either, we used a lead sled. Knowing they had to be fire-formed this was expected. Now after examining the spent rounds, some seemed to have fire formed slightly different than others. I'm going back up to Afton, Wy this weekend and am going to discuss this a little further with my great uncle. Anyone have any insight behind the different fire forming? Reminder that I am no fun expert, nevertheless a wildcat expert. The two on the left in the below pic are what I believe we are going for and about 75% of the rounds we shot formed that way. But several formed like the two in the middle.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

It looks like you have powder blow back arround the neck where it meets the shoulder. Lack of pressure is causing the case to not seal in the chamber. 

Just need more pressure. You can do that with more powder or move the bullet closer to the lands. I'd probably load them hotter. 

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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

swbuckmaster said:


> It looks like you have powder blow back arround the neck where it meets the shoulder. Lack of pressure is causing the case to not seal in the chamber.
> 
> Just need more pressure. You can do that with more powder or move the bullet closer to the lands. I'd probably load them hotter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


If necking down to fireform a new case you need to make sure you set the shoulder correctly you will need to have a noticeable crush when you close the bolt if you do not have less than zero headspace you will not fireform properly please do not add more powder to get a seal.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

The only question I have is why is it called a 30-375 and not a 300 H&H Improved? This makes me kind of think that this round is not just a simple fireformed "Improved" round but is actually some "wildcat" round. One thing you could look at is the reloading die set that Gramps has. "Improved" rounds generally use a standard two die set where most "Wildcat" rounds require case trimming and other procedures that require additional dies to perform. Your round may require you start with 375 H&H and neck down/trim maybe even fire form to finish the process. 
Something just doesn't look right to me with that blowby and incomplete forming as displayed in the middle examples. 
If Gramps seems even a little fuzzy about ANY detail of the procedure, it is important that you check with a qualified expert before you continue.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

BPturkeys said:


> The only question I have is why is it called a 30-375 and not a 300 H&H Improved? This makes me kind of think that this round is not just a simple fireformed "Improved" round but is actually some "wildcat" round. One thing you could look at is the reloading die set that Gramps has. "Improved" rounds generally use a standard two die set where most "Wildcat" rounds require case trimming and other procedures that require additional dies to perform. Your round may require you start with 375 H&H and neck down/trim maybe even fire form to finish the process.
> Something just doesn't look right to me with that blowby and incomplete forming as displayed in the middle examples.
> If Gramps seems even a little fuzzy about ANY detail of the procedure, it is important that you check with a qualified expert before you continue.


Screw the die out until the case crushes into the case he's simply made the case too short and caused a headspace issue. It's a belted case therefore is designed to be headspaced off the belt but as a wildcat it will need to be a couple of thousandths shy of zero headspace for it to efficiently fireform.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Didn't he say he only had a problem with a only few not fireforming?

When I fire formed my .243AI I had powder blow on my first one. It didn't expand fully either. I new I was under pressure because I didn't want to start out hot. I had a crush fit on the brass and seated the bullet just off the lands. so I new I was good in that department.

I added a few more grains powder problem solved. No more blow by and perfectly formed brass. 

You definitely need to do some research on this gun before you just add powder though. 


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

I've built and played with dozens of wildcats and the ackleys wouldn't even be considered a wildcat as far as fire forming. Form brass for .17 wch or 17 predator and you will see what true fire forming ioff false shoulders. It's not uncommon for some of the rounds on improperly headspaced rounds to form semi properly but round crushed into the chamber will all take the shape of the chamber. Im the pic on the far right I see no evidence of any of the original neck being left to headspace from if that round isn't crushed into the chamber your asking for an accident. Advice is worth what you pay for it.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

The case on the left is a 204 ruger middle a case ready to fireform and the case on the right a 17 wch notice the false shoulder. If you are necking down and forming you should see a false shoulder of some kind although it probably won't be this dramatic.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

That's a lot of soot on your cases. When's the last time those case mouths were annealed? Or are you using a charge that's too mild to adequately "seal" your brass against the chamber.


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

My guess of what caliber this may be.http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/30-cal-308-cal-nopix-chamber-reamers/7199-30-375-holland-holland-hh-mag-improved-reamer.html
And a good read of cartridge made from 375 H&H cases https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/375-h-h-mag-2012-cartridge-of-the-year/10775
If this is a 30-375 H&H Improved the cases could be made from either the 375H&H or 300 H&H but that is some very advanced reloading the advice to have it checked by a gunsmith is good advice. Do you have reloading dies with this?


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

Another option it may be.https://www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-33%20Haviland%20LR.pdf
Another reason to find out what caliber you are really working with. I hope you can find the history of what animals your grandfather has taken and the how and whys of the gun being built. This is the real value for you to know so you can appreciate this thought process of having this made. You are lucky to have it.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

TPrawitt91 said:


> My grandfather just passed down to me the first custom rifle he ever built back in the 80's.
> 
> 30-375 custom Douglas barrel. He did the stock himself and all that. Very excited to have this gun. I will post some pics but I have some questions about this gun that unfortunately my grandfather can't really answer very clearly. My grandpa has had a few strokes the last few years and while he is some what able to speak and articulate things, he can't always get the words out that he is thinking in his head.
> 
> ...


 Man I love those older guns, leave that vintage scope on it too. You are going to love that gun when you get it up and runnin !


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Thanks guys, my uncle told me this weekend he used to hunt with that gun a little when he was younger. He is checking to see if he has any rounds or info about it laying around. My great uncle thinks the 300 H&H brass is correct and the thing about this gun is the action and barrel are both customs and it very well could be chambered in 300 and actually be a 300 H&H improved. I do have dies but I am not home right now to look at them. I will post about it when I get home


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Thanks guys, my uncle told me this weekend he used to hunt with that gun a little when he was younger. He is checking to see if he has any rounds or info about it laying around. My great uncle thinks the 300 H&H brass is correct and the thing about this gun is the action and barrel are both customs and it very well could be chambered in 300 and actually be a 300 H&H improved. I do have dies but I am not home right now to look at them. I will post about it when I get home


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

TPrawitt91 said:


> My grandfather just passed down to me the first custom rifle he ever built back in the 80's.
> 
> 30-375 custom Douglas barrel. He did the stock himself and all that. Very excited to have this gun.


I can sure understand you're excitement. It amazes me that people can have the eye, the patience, the finesse and expertise to actually build something as beautiful as this rifle.

It's a beautiful rifle, best of luck to you with it. Congrats !


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

The dies say 300 H&H Improved.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

I think someone already mentioned one, but any gunsmith suggestions?


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I had the same sort of issue with my 280 AI when I first started fire forming brass. As others have mentioned, the charge was to low to create enough pressure to seal inside the chamber. The ones that it did seal on perhaps had softer brass which allowed for more flex with less pressure. It may be a good idea in the near future to anneal all of that brass to get consistent neck tension and prevent cracking.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Bo0YaA said:


> I had the same sort of issue with my 280 AI when I first started fire forming brass. As others have mentioned, the charge was to low to create enough pressure to seal inside the chamber. The ones that it did seal on perhaps had softer brass which allowed for more flex with less pressure. It may be a good idea in the near future to anneal all of that brass to get consistent neck tension and prevent cracking.


Could you perhaps explain the annealing process? Should I shoot off the last 20 or so rounds that need to be fire formed and have this done before reloading?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

If you do a search on youtube you can see videos of annealing

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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

If you ever wanted to come out towards Farmington I will show you first hand how I do it. We could get whip those out pretty quick. All I would ask in return is one loaded fire formed round for my collection


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Bo0YaA said:


> If you ever wanted to come out towards Farmington I will show you first hand how I do it. We could get whip those out pretty quick. All I would ask in return is one loaded fire formed round for my collection


I will take you up on that. I think I have like 60 rounds total. I have 25 that need to be shot. I have a baby due pretty soon so I'm trying like crazy to fit a lot into my schedule. I can't say it would be right away but this summer my spare time will be used sighting in my bow, this rifle, and scouting.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Sounds good, or I could meet you up a the Bountiful lions when you want to shoot those other 25, take all the brass, anneal and return it to ya minus the one I would keep If helps you out better on timing. Of course, I would give ya my number and address if for some reason you didn't trust a guy you randomly met on a forum for the first time lol.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Bo0YaA said:


> Sounds good, or I could meet you up a the Bountiful lions when you want to shoot those other 25, take all the brass, anneal and return it to ya minus the one I would keep If helps you out better on timing. Of course, I would give ya my number and address if for some reason you didn't trust a guy you randomly met on a forum for the first time lol.


I appreciate that. I would actual prefer to be there when you do it, not that I wouldn't trust you, but that I want to see the process so I can do it myself. I will send you a PM when I have some time here soon and if you want to meet at the range and go show me the process after I think that would be great.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> It looks like you have powder blow back arround the neck where it meets the shoulder. Lack of pressure is causing the case to not seal in the chamber.
> 
> Just need more pressure. You can do that with more powder or move the bullet closer to the lands. I'd probably load them hotter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


That is correct. Some reloaders back in the olden days recommended you only need a partial charge to fire form, but this has been debunked and a good full power load...*I do not mean a MAX charge, just a good full charge*... is what is recommended by all wildcatters these days. It is very possible that your grandpa was listening to the partial load guys back then and only loaded low power loads for the reforming. Before you fire any more of his loads you might want to pull a bullet and weigh the charge. Even not knowing the powder type you should be able to determine if it is only a partial(light) charge. 
And yes, I am greatly reliever to hear the barrel is marked 30-375, not 30-378. A 30-375 is nothing more than some version of a 300 H&H IMP. A 30-378 is built off from the .378 Weatherby which is a VERY different round. Back then there where several versions of "improved" loads, mostly differences in body taper and shoulder angle. P.O. Ackley's versions(fairly straight case sides and a 40 degree shoulder) became the most common and the one's you see most. BUT, there where many versions(variations) out there and it is hard to say what variation you have, given the fact that the barrel is marked 30-375. The good news is that you have the loading dies that are correct for your versions so you should be good to go.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

BPturkeys said:


> That is correct. Some reloaders back in the olden days recommended you only need a partial charge to fire form, but this has been debunked and a good full power load...*I do not mean a MAX charge, just a good full charge*... is what is recommended by all wildcatters these days. It is very possible that your grandpa was listening to the partial load guys back then and only loaded low power loads for the reforming. Before you fire any more of his loads you might want to pull a bullet and weigh the charge. Even not knowing the powder type you should be able to determine if it is only a partial(light) charge.
> And yes, I am greatly reliever to hear the barrel is marked 30-375, not 30-378. A 30-375 is nothing more than some version of a 300 H&H IMP. A 30-378 is built off from the .378 Weatherby which is a VERY different round. Back then there where several versions of "improved" loads, mostly differences in body taper and shoulder angle. P.O. Ackley's versions(fairly straight case sides and a 40 degree shoulder) became the most common and the one's you see most. BUT, there where many versions(variations) out there and it is hard to say what variation you have, given the fact that the barrel is marked 30-375. The good news is that you have the loading dies that are correct for your versions so you should be good to go.


In his notes he called this rifle the "30. Cal Magnum" I'll post pics of the loads he has written down in the book we found and you'll have to let me know what you think. If I can get my archery prep finished early enough tonight I will pull the book and snap some photos. 

We had already planned on pulling a bullet and weighing the powder when we start loading up new rounds to compare the two since it was determined we were undercharged. 

I really appreciate you taking the time to read through and make some determinations on what might be going on with the rifle. I know basic reloading but when he gave me this rifle there was no known load data to start from, and I didn't know what I was doing to start load development from scratch. But since then he has passed and we ended up finding quite a few more books of load data, one book had I think 2-3 loads for the 30. Magnum


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

NO, the original round was the 300 H&H magnum and that is what it should say on the case...the Winchester 300 H&H rounds grandpa left you are correct. . The round after it is fire formed has straighter sides and a sharper shoulder angle and it is "named" 30-375. The 375 part of the name is a little misleading because it really has nothing to do with any of the specs of the round and is only a "name" not a description. It is MUCH simpler to think of this round as a 300H&H IMP round...because that is EXACTLEY what it is and just forget about the 375 part of the name. 
*NOW, UPDATE...*after looking at the pic's I see your grandpa did IN FACT use a reduced load. His sticker indicates that your loads that he made up are very much a reduced, low power load, 5 gr H380. I would not recommend this as a fire forming load. Pull the bullets, and reload with a full charge of about any powder you want to load and/or use up. The thing you are trying to do is achieve a good working pressure similar to what a moderate 300H&H load would be.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

The process(2) of making a 300H&H IMP round is this:
1) take a 300 H&H round and shoot it through a rifle that has a 300 H&H IMP chamber...that is what you are doing now.
2) take a 375 H&H empty case, neck it down to .30 cal, load it with a .30 bullet and follow the steps in #1 above.

** *a 300 H&H is nothing more than a 375 H&H necked down to .30 cal


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The problem is until a competent person sees the dimensions of a fired case we are all just guessing on just what it is.

The 300 H&H's parent case is the 375 H&H. It was obtained by necking down the 375 H&H. The 300 Weatherby mag was obtained by fire forming a 300 H&H cartridge in a 300 Weatherby magnum chamber. If needed you can shoot 300 H&H ammo in the 300 Weatherby.


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## Blacdog (Nov 24, 2019)

If your worried about what it is I can pull a bullet and make a fire forming load that won’t take your head off.


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## Blacdog (Nov 24, 2019)

I finally got a chance to read through this whole thing and the 30-375 more than likely indicates the chamber reamer was ground to not have to turn the neck on the finished round. By using the 375 H&H case as opposed to the 300 H&H it would allow for a slight false shoulder to be set to move the headspace from the belt to the shoulder to assure the preferred “crush” fit for fireforming the improved case. I would be willing to bet if you used 375 cases necked down or took the 300 cases up then back down leaving them a little long for crush you’d lose some of that dirty shoulder.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Blacdog said:


> If your worried about what it is I can pull a bullet and make a fire forming load that won’t take your head off.


Once I'm done getting situated for archery season let's definitely discuss this a little more! I have access to all the reloading equipment but it might actually be helpful to use your help to get a batch done. All the reloading stuff that was left to my brother and I is buried at our moms from when she moved last.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Ok update, I am bringing home all the reloading stuff this weekend and will inventory all the primers and powders and such. I know I have some CCI 250 Magnum primers, I know we have H380 and Retumbo, but not sure what else.

But more importantly see pic for the only 3 load recipes we know of for this rifle. Looking to go with 190 grain as this will be primarily for hunting elk.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Gee, if you had only showed us these pictures before, all questions would have been answered 4 pages ago. But it has been an interesting discussion and hopefully you now know how to fire form the cases needed for this rifle. If you're lucky you already have enough cases that have been formed by grandpa to last you a lifetime. After all, it isn't going to be a rifle you just take out to go plinking. If recoil is a concern with you, remember that you can always load it down to 30-06 or .308 velocities and still have a fine hunting rifle. On the other hand, this rifle is tailor made to handle the 190 gr 30 caliber loads and is a very formattable elk rifle loaded as such.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

BP, yes the load data was just found shortly after grandpa passed away 1.5 years ago. This thread has been very helpful in helping me learn and understand how to move forward with this rifle. 

So last night I pulled out the box at my moms that had mostly just powder and dies. My brother also found a box with TONS of primers for each of our rifle. Little bro has 3000+ of the primers he uses. Sounds like I have 900+ CCI 250 Large Magnum Primers for my rifle. 

So at this point I need to decide on a few bullets to try and decide on a fireforming load. Prep all the cases, fire form, and get ready to test a few hunting loads. 

Looking like I'll be using H380 powder, it's what my brother uses and we have a huge jug of it. We have several other powders and I will post a list of what we have to see if any are of use to us or possibly others on here. 


So if anyone has suggestions on bullets that would pair with H380 and CCI 250's please let me know. My brother shoots Bergers out of his rifle (30-06AI), Grandpa used a lot of Hornady, Sierra, and Berger. Hopefully those who are more knowledgeable on bullet selection will chime in, because I'll probably just choose a few of those brands if left on my own.


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

TPrawitt91 said:


> BP, yes the load data was just found shortly after grandpa passed away 1.5 years ago. This thread has been very helpful in helping me learn and understand how to move forward with this rifle.
> 
> So last night I pulled out the box at my moms that had mostly just powder and dies. My brother also found a box with TONS of primers for each of our rifle. Little bro has 3000+ of the primers he uses. Sounds like I have 900+ CCI 250 Large Magnum Primers for my rifle.
> 
> ...


If I were choosing a bullet for this caliber It would be a 180 grain Nosler Partition. Maybe some new wonder bullets made in the last few years but the Partitions have been around for 60+ years and are proven to perform excellent. With that bullet going at those velocities you could be confident of taking any North American animal. Maybe coastal brown bears would deserve a larger caliber with heavier bullet other than that you would not be under gunned.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

lifesshort said:


> If I were choosing a bullet for this caliber It would be a 180 grain Nosler Partition. Maybe some new wonder bullets made in the last few years but the Partitions have been around for 60+ years and are proven to perform excellent. With that bullet going at those velocities you could be confident of taking any North American animal. Maybe coastal brown bears would deserve a larger caliber with heavier bullet other than that you would not be under gunned.


So I’m trying to work out a fire forming load. I will give the nosler a look.

I’m thinking for the fire forming load, 

CCI250 primer
180gr-200gr projectile
H380, roughly 47 grains powder

My brother uses 47.5gr H380 in his hunting loads for his 30-06AI pushing 200gr Berger bullets.
I’m thinking that is around where I should start for the 300H&H AI.

Anyone care to agree or disagree? Should I start with less, maybe 35ish then go up? Should I be starting higher than 47?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You don't need to back off any when fire forming cases. 

I have also found that if I shoot the same load to form a case that it is just as accurate as my hunting loads are.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Critter said:


> You don't need to back off any when fire forming cases.
> 
> I have also found that if I shoot the same load to form a case that it is just as accurate as my hunting loads are.


So based roughly off what my brother is shooting do you think 47ish grains is a good starting point for H380 Powder. I can't find anything from Hodgdon for an exact 300H&H Magnum load so I'm trying to rough guess a starting load. Figuring with the increased capacity of the load being AI starting at that shouldn't blow anything apart. I can also get different powder if anyone think H380 is not the right powder. Just seems like it would work since we already use it in a different AI 30 caliber rifle.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I haven't looked at any manuals but most any load or a 300 HH will work just fine along with just shooting factory 300 HH loads to form the cases. 

You might look at the case dimensions and see how they compare to a .300 Weatherby since the .300 Weatherby is based on the 300 HH and you can shoot 300 HH ammo out of a 300 Weatherby.


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

TPrawitt91 said:


> So I’m trying to work out a fire forming load. I will give the nosler a look.
> 
> I’m thinking for the fire forming load,
> 
> ...


https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-33 Haviland LR.pdf
.300 H&H Ackley Improved (30 Degree) – Handloader Magazine
Hodgdon has some load data for H380 in their reloading data center for 300 Weatherby not the same but close.


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

lifesshort said:


> https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-33 Haviland LR.pdf
> .300 H&H Ackley Improved (30 Degree) – Handloader Magazine
> Hodgdon has some load data for H380 in their reloading data center for 300 Weatherby not the same but close.


300 Holland & Holland (H&H) Magnum Load Data


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Lifesshort, Thanks for sharing those links!

so based off 300 weatherby, maybe take 10% off the starting load and start there with the 300H&H?


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

lifesshort said:


> 300 Holland & Holland (H&H) Magnum Load Data


I am no expert but the 300 h&h loads should be a good starting point.
The 300H&H in Nosler with a 180 grain bullet shows 58.5-62.5 grains with H380
The 300 weatherby in Hogdon with 180 grain bullet shows 61-66.5 with H380
I would assume you will end up somewhere in between with the Ackley Improved
If it were me I would start with the 300H&H data and add .5 grains at a time and shoot over a chronograph until I hit the velocity expected while watching for pressure signs. Looking at the two I would think 2800FPS maybe. Do you have access to a chronograph


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

lifesshort said:


> I am no expert but the 300 h&h loads should be a good starting point.
> The 300H&H in Nosler with a 180 grain bullet shows 58.5-62.5 grains with H380
> The 300 weatherby in Hogdon with 180 grain bullet shows 61-66.5 with H380
> I would assume you will end up somewhere in between with the Ackley Improved
> If it were me I would start with the 300H&H data and add .5 grains at a time and shoot over a chronograph until I hit the velocity expected while watching for pressure signs. Looking at the two I would think 2800FPS maybe. Do you have access to a chronograph


Actually yes a chrono was left to us with the rest of the reloading equipment, so we have that covered.

Thank you so much for chiming in, Lifesshort. Big thanks to everyone who has chimed in over the years on this. It's a long time coming but I think we will have a fireform load in all the cases in the next few weeks. We'll get those fired off and start finding that sweet spot for a hunting load. 

My final thought for fireforming load is:
300 H&H Mag case
CCI250 Large Magnum Rifle Primer
52gr H380 (Full charge but not max as per BP, will move up to min load charge(58.5gr) for 300H&H to start when load building)
180gr Projectile, probably find something cheaper for fireforming. For load building I'll move to the more expensive Nosler Partition in 180gr. 

I'll post an update when fireform loads are handled.


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