# A little bit more about Bag Limits



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

We have had a pretty good discussion of bag and possession limits on another thread this week but I though maybe we could pass on a little bit more info about bag limits in an effort to keep some young hunters out of trouble.
Limits, both daily bag and possession apply to only ONE hunter. For example, two hunters can't combine their daily harvest to complete a daily bag limit. If, for example, the bag limit is 5 birds per day, each hunter can only kill 5 birds. You can't have one guy shooting 7 birds and the other shooting 3 birds. This may sound elementary but it happens every year on most species with multiple animal limits where a couple of guys just throw the birds in a pile and when they reach the combined bag limit for the day, then they both stop shooting. This is a NO NO, its called piling or party hunting and will get you a ticket. When hunting with friends, keep your harvests separate...in your own vest, or in your own cooler...never "pile" them in a bunch. Stop shooting and put your gun away when you reach your personal limit. Fish cops have really been cracking down on this, especially on waterfowlers, lately. So be careful, have fun and remember, they get to make the rules.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

how would you prove a group of hunters is party hunting? also, i'd like to see where it is written down that it is illegal for a group of hunters to "party hunt" when hunting animals where tag for the animals arent involved. for example. 5 guys are dove hunting. 2 doves fly over. each guy fires 1 shot at the same time as the other hunters. both both doves are killed. whos bag do they belong in? that is, by definition, "PARTY HUNTING". where in the proc does it say it is illegal to shoot at the same birds, at the same time as the people you are hunting with? cuz that is about the only way to elimintate party hunting completely... same thing goes with waterfowl. ive asked F&G officers to show me in the proc where it says we cant all shoot at the same birds, after he told me what we were doing was illegal and can write me a ticket for it.... he could produce the rule in writing o-||


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Both of you can shoot at the same bird but once that bird is on the ground and dead you and the other hunter need to decide on who is going to claim the bird in his or her limit.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Don't kill the messenger here boys.

Believe me, this is a "tell it to the judge moment". 

And Shaun, the warden doesn't really care who shot the darn bird, he only cares who claims they shot the bird and that it is identifiably in your bag. It only matters that the bird is in someones bag, not in some pile of birds in the bottom of the duck boat. 
Anyway, like I said, I am not here to argue, just trying to pass on a little info that might save someone a ticket. If you want to be stubborn and ague with the judge, I am sure someday you'll get your chance.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Critter said:


> Both of you can shoot at the same bird but once that bird is on the ground and dead you and the other hunter need to decide on who is going to claim the bird in his or her limit.


well yeah thats a given. but technically isnt that still considered "party hunting"?

if 2 guys are duck hunting. the limit is 7 ducks a piece, 14 ducks in posession between them both. by law, both hunters can keep shooting until 13 birds are in posession, at which point, one hunter has to case their gun.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> Critter said:
> 
> 
> > Both of you can shoot at the same bird but once that bird is on the ground and dead you and the other hunter need to decide on who is going to claim the bird in his or her limit.
> ...





No Shawn, not quite right. On a ONE day hunt...as soon as a hunter shoots his 7 birds he must stop! You can NOT help the other hunter fill his daily bag limit...that is exactly what the law is trying to prevent.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

BPturkeys said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > Critter said:
> ...


how can they prove it? how can they determine who shot what birds? this is what im trying to get at. where does it say that as soon as 1 limit is full (wether its by one guy or both) that someone has to case their gun? thats what the fish cop tried to tell me. that as soon as 7 ducks were in the boat, didnt matter who shot them, a hunter had to case the gun. after 7 ducks it became party hunting.

another question i have, where does it state that it is illegal to "pile" birds into one big pile? even if a hunter has filled their limit and is done hunting for the day, does it say you cant have one bird pile in the boat?

im not trying to argue, just trying to figure out what is the true law. i get tired of these fish cops making up their own rules.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> Critter said:
> 
> 
> > Both of you can shoot at the same bird but once that bird is on the ground and dead you and the other hunter need to decide on who is going to claim the bird in his or her limit.
> ...


Your wrong, each hunter can kill 7 ducks PERIOD! If me and a friend are hunting and I shoot 7 birds and he hasn't killed 1 I stop shooting, it is on him to fill HIS bag limit. Like it or not, each person has his own bag limit and he can't shoot his buddies bag limit!!


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

hoghunter011583 said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > Critter said:
> ...


im not retarded :roll: i know how it works. thats not what im asking.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It may end up being a tell it to the judge moment.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Critter said:


> It may end up being a tell it to the judge moment.


sounds like it. thanks for the input.


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

It all comes down to *integrity* either you have it or you don't....


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="shaun larsen":20rpo6hx]
> ...


im not retarded :roll: i know how it works. thats not what im asking.[/quote:20rpo6hx]

So you know the law and you are still asking?? Just what are you asking, it sounds like you are asking how can they prove that you broke the law!! Bottom line is they can't prove it! So shoot your buddies bag limit and if you ever have a CO watch you do that you will get a serious fine and you will deserve it!!
The rules are clear as a bell, you fill your bag limit and your buddy fills his bag limit!! I don't care much what the CO told you, read the guide book. If you can shoot 7 ducks, shoot those ducks and case your gun, forget about it, this really isn't that hard!!!! You can pile your birds up (last I checked) but when the CO asks you which birds you shot you better be able to point them out! I'd say 90% of guys don't observe this rule because they know they won't get caught but it is no different than shooting 5 deer by yourself because you have 5 friends that also have tags and you just put their tags on those deer!


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

hoghunter011583 said:


> it is no different than shooting 5 deer by yourself because you have 5 friends that also have tags and you just put their tags on those deer!


no thats something way different. because it is so different, the penalties are more severe. you intentionally shoot 5 deer, you lose hunting rights and might possibly do jail time. you get busted for piling birds and "party hunting", you pay fines a majority of the time. theres exceptions to the rule where you could go to jail, but thats only if you REALLY F up.


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## ddhunter (Jul 17, 2011)

shaun larsen said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > it is no different than shooting 5 deer by yourself because you have 5 friends that also have tags and you just put their tags on those deer!
> ...


I just want to throw this out there... If a warden wants to be a real stick in the mud, breaking a federal migratory game law can and often will be a felony. Loss of hunting privileges sucks and all but felonies don't go away.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Every time I've ever been checked, no matter what state, no matter what kind of birds, the warden has ALWAYS asked who shot what? I've only seen a ticket written one time and it was a warning. We were in Montana on opening day and seven of us killed our limits of pheasants in twenty minutes. There were LOTS of tag team kills. All the birds got thrown into a pile for a picture and that's when Jonny Crick-**** drove up. He was really cool about everything right up to the point when he said "OK, who shot what?" We honestly couldn't tell him and he got a little miffed and started writing tickets. We EACH got one. Again, only a warning, but it taught us a lesson. I've NEVER driven out of a WMA on opening morning of duck season and not been checked. And they ALWAYS ask who shot what. Good reminder BP, thanks.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks BPturkeys. Hopefully the folks that needed the information got it.
I had some friends that had to buy their guns back at a seized property auction. They had to talk nice to keep the rest of their gear and not have to hitch-hike home from Farmington Bay. 
If you know the rules it shouldn’t be about getting caught or the penalty.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> He was really cool about everything right up to the point when he said "OK, who shot what?" We honestly couldn't tell him and he got a little miffed and started writing tickets.


Thats what those used bread bag twist ties are for. Put some in your pocket and when you bag a bird, wrap one around the leg and as toss it in your bag.

I've been with charter fishing guides who knotch a fishes nose with a knife, so they could sort out who caught what.

-DallanC


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > it is no different than shooting 5 deer by yourself because you have 5 friends that also have tags and you just put their tags on those deer!
> ...


I hear you, it is more serious and if you did it while bear hunting it would be even more serious, and if you were hunting whales it would be even more serious but the idea is the same. Either way you are shooting more than your limit!


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Shaun- if the CO told you that once 7 ducks were killed, assuming the two of you each shot some of those, and then told you one of you had to put your gun away, well, then he's wrong. If you could have told him outright who shot what (meaning which 4 you shot, and which 3 your buddy shot), then I'm sure he would have no problem going on his merry way and leaving you alone. But since there were 7 birds piled up, and neither of you could distinguish which birds were yours, he HAS to assume that they all belong to one of you, and that person should be done shooting ducks for the day. 

As mentioned, avoid any issues with this by marking which ducks belong to which hunter. Twist ties, zip ties, a game strap, etc, etc, all work great for this. Furthermore, you don't necessarily have to put your gun away just because you shot your 7 ducks! There are coots that can be shot, geese as well, and if you have a swan tag, well, that can be justification for staying in the game also. Just realize that if you go this route, the CO may leave, but he'll still be watching. If he see's you so much as pull up your gun on another duck, you're toast.


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## 400BULL (Nov 16, 2007)

Goshawk said:


> It all comes down to *integrity* either you have it or you don't....


Right here is the answer to the question "Integrity" and personal ethics. You can tell the Conservation Officer all the stories you want and he just might buy it. No matter how you try to justify it to the CO, you know the law. For me and my hunting party once we have shot our bag limit for the day the rifle get put away.

400bull


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Its simple for them to prove it, they could be in plain clothes somewhere close by watching you help your buddy fill his limit. or they could be videoing you, I have saw the Feds do both at different times. They got my neighbors back south for party hunting, over the limit, and baiting via those methods .


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

Sure officer, the 7 mallards are mine, the 3 spooners and 4 mergansers are his. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

That's what I would say.


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

I get what shaun is trying to say, example john and joe go hunting ducks, theres alot of tag team kills and the ducks are falling, they gather them up and it ends up that there is 12 total birds killed. John and Joe split the birds evenly into two piles. they cant tell who killed what but there split evenly between the two hunters. suddenly the fish cop shows up and asks who shot what? they each so there piles to the CO, he sees there 6 ducks a peace and go's on about his way. so how is it that the CO would be able to tell who shot what with out watching them the whole shoot? I see what shaun is getting at but the pile o' birds could be a problem in that situation. As said before just figure out away to mark your bag. all in all every bird hunter is gulity of the tag team kill so just decide who killed it and you will be fine.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I can't stand petunias that think they are going to fill my limit too.


edited by the ole goob


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## OPENCOUNTRY (Jan 25, 2009)

Ok, say this happens! you've got 6 ducks and the limit is 7! a flock locks up in the dekes, you pull up and shoot once and 2 ducks fall! you're 1 duck over! what do you do?.....
now i know people will say don't shoot if you think it good be a double! but i'm just sayin..... WHAT IF


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Then I take my extra duck home with me, rather than waste it, and deal with the consequences if I get stopped by a CO. I would explain the situation, and tell him I was fully prepared to pay the ticket. Let him issue it, and get on with it. Sometimes things happen, and as you mentioned opencountry, you have to make sure you are selective with your shots. 

This would never happen to me though. I can't seem to ever kill more than 3-4 birds on each outing. Most times I come back with one or none!


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

OPENCOUNTRY said:


> Ok, say this happens! you've got 6 ducks and the limit is 7! a flock locks up in the dekes, you pull up and shoot once and 2 ducks fall! you're 1 duck over! what do you do?.....
> now i know people will say don't shoot if you think it good be a double! but i'm just sayin..... WHAT IF


That's when you pick the drake on the outside of the flock. You just have to know where you are with your limit and maybe pass on the shot if the birds come in in a big knot. I agree with the other guys though, if you accidently shoot over your limit you suck it up and take your chances. I would rather pay a ticket than waste a bird.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Chaser said:


> Then I take my extra duck home with me, rather than waste it, and deal with the consequences if I get stopped by a CO. I would explain the situation, and tell him I was fully prepared to pay the ticket. Let him issue it, and get on with it


thats the problem though, if you get caught with too many birds in your posession, they will take all your birds from you. i had an officer tell me that if you have an accident, the best thing to do is call the poaching hot line immediately, ask to speak with a local officer, arrange a meeting place and get there with the animals you shot as soon as possible. if you turn yourself in and admit your mistake, instead of you risking getting caught, the consequenses are going to be much different.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> Chaser said:
> 
> 
> > Then I take my extra duck home with me, rather than waste it, and deal with the consequences if I get stopped by a CO. I would explain the situation, and tell him I was fully prepared to pay the ticket. Let him issue it, and get on with it
> ...


That's actually a really good idea. Problem is, you aren't always in an area with cell reception. I would think that in any case, you need to be forthright with the CO, be honest, and apologetic, and humble. Some COs will still be jerks about it, but most are reasonable people, and if you are willing to work with them, they'll be more willing to work with you. Even if they decided you needed to see a judge about it, and you maintain your humility, the judge would more than likely hear your situation. Whether or not you get off the hook is completely up to them, but a good attitude certainly doesn't hurt your situation like being an asshat does.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

I am confused about this issue of "party hunting" in Utah. After skimming through this thread and one other I decided to see what the regulations say. The Big Game Utah Field Regulations book for 2012 says that party hunting for big game is illegal in Utah.

However, I looked through the Upland Game and Turkey Guidebook for 2012-2013 and party hunting is not mentioned at all, nor can I find any discussion of anything that resembles party hunting. I also did a word search for "party" in the same document and found no mention of party hunting. I also did a word search through the waterfowl guidebook on the work "party" and couldn't find anything on party hunting.

Since the published regulations do not give notice that party hunting is against regulations for for upland game, turkeys, or waterfowl I would have to conclude that it is not against regulations for those classes of game. On the other hand, since the published regulations to say that party hunting is against regulations for big game I would have to conclude that it is against the big game regulations.

Am I missing something, or can someone else cite the specific sections of the law or regulations that ban party hunting for upland game or waterfowl?


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## gpskid (Jul 24, 2012)

Here's another grey area I encountered last year, I had a similar problem when I hunted chukar in the Utah west desert, shot my limit in the morning then traveled to NV where I had a license also, call NV fish & game in Elko asking if I could still shoot my limit in NV, the nice lady told me to keep them separate and hope the CO believes you :? 
A limit from Utah and a limit from NV, 11 birds in the cooler, is this legal?
Not to be greedy but I did paid the fees plus the gas to get there, so should I continue to shoot both states limit?
By the way Shaun what did you get pinched for?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Yes, it is. It is no different than having a Utah deer tag and a Nevada deer tag and shooting one in esch state.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

The Guidebooks aren't complete, which I think is why there is no mention of party hunting in them. If you look at the Big Game Guidebook, there is no mention of legal archery tackle, minimum rifle caliber, or even whether you can take a cow elk during the archery season. But, all this information is in the Big Game Field Regulations.

Only the Guidebooks for waterfowl and upland game are on the Division's website, and they don't contain all the field regulations. However, under the definitions section in the Guidebook, it reads:

*Daily bag limit means the maximum number 
of migratory game birds of a single species, or 
combination (aggregate) of species, permitted to 
be taken by one person in any one day during the 
open season in any one specified geographic area 
for which a daily bag limit is prescribed. *

Party hunting is illegal, and also disrespectful of your hunting buddies. I'm not about to shoot somebody else's birds, and wouldn't allow anybody else to shoot mine. I don't pile birds, either. Keep them separate, and no worries.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

paddler213 said:


> The Guidebooks aren't complete, which I think is why there is no mention of party hunting in them. If you look at the Big Game Guidebook, there is no mention of legal archery tackle, minimum rifle caliber, or even whether you can take a cow elk during the archery season. But, all this information is in the Big Game Field Regulations.
> 
> Only the Guidebooks for waterfowl and upland game are on the Division's website, and they don't contain all the field regulations. However, under the definitions section in the Guidebook, it reads:
> 
> ...


Thanks for finding that information in the Waterfowl Guidebook. There is nothing similar in the Upland Game and Turkey Guidebook.

Regarding field regulations, does a booklet on field regulations actually exist for Upland Game and Turkeys or Waterfowl?

By the way, whatever happened to the good old fashioned relatively easy to read "proclamations"? All this stuff about separate guidebooks and field books and such is terribly confusing.

Thanks.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

massmanute said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > The Guidebooks aren't complete, which I think is why there is no mention of party hunting in them. If you look at the Big Game Guidebook, there is no mention of legal archery tackle, minimum rifle caliber, or even whether you can take a cow elk during the archery season. But, all this information is in the Big Game Field Regulations.
> ...


I'm sure there are field regulations for each type of hunting. All the guidebooks contain annotations to other sources, and are basically excerpts from those regulations. I agree that things could be improved and perhaps simplified. We talked about improving the Division's website during our GSLWAG meetings; improving the online maps, etc, but it doesn't look like anything has happened yet.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

paddler213 said:


> massmanute said:
> 
> 
> > paddler213 said:
> ...


I went to the upland game guidebook, and they gave a reference to wildlife.utah.gov/rules for an in depth look at the rules. I went to that web site and the only link I could find that seemed relevant was titled "Wildlife administrative rules," which was a link to the web address http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/rules_toc.php. From there there was a link to rule R657-5 relating to upland game. That link leads to the the web address http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/R657-06.php. I looked there and there was no additional information on bag limits and it did not mention party hunting. In fact, R657-06 referred back to the guidebook for additional information, stating "Specific season dates, bag and possession limits, areas open, number of permits and other administrative details that may change annually are published in the guidebook of the Wildlife Board for taking upland game and wild turkey." Also, there is no information on any "field regulations" for upland game that I could find anywhere on the website.

So, it looks like there are no rules against party hunting for upland game.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

there is nothing mentioned about party hunting for waterfowl either, except for swan hunting, but thats a different story, since tags are involved. i cant wait until the next time when i or someone i know gets harassed about party hunting or "piling" birds. its not illegal when there are no rules against it.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> there is nothing mentioned about party hunting for waterfowl either, except for swan hunting, but thats a different story, since tags are involved. i cant wait until the next time when i or someone i know gets harassed about party hunting or "piling" birds. its not illegal when there are no rules against it.


I agree, I have been checked a few times with birds in a single location or piled. As long as the number of birds is less than the limit for the number of hunters, the CO hasn't said anything. I've never been asked "Who shot what?" They want to see a HIP numbers, signed duck stamps, and licenses. This would be like getting checked when fishing and the CO seeing 7 fish on a stringer and asking "Who caught what?" and expecting us to place fish in different piles. 9 out of 10 CO are good guys, I guess there is always the chance of getting the 1 **** CO that would try to ticket you, however, *There is no law that they have to be separated into different piles or somehow marked.*


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Umm...maybe I'm just a dummy...but itn't the definiation of a DAILY BAG limit the same thing as a law against party hunting. It very clearly states I can only shoot a certain number of whatever a day. Period! Its quite clear. I even thought the low-brow waterfowlers could even understand it.

If a CO wants to go through a "pile" of birds, I better be able to ****-certain identify what I shot...and if he witnesses you shoot more than your fair share he ****-sure aughta give you a ticket.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

InvaderZim said:


> Umm...maybe I'm just a dummy...but itn't the definiation of a DAILY BAG limit the same thing as a law against party hunting. It very clearly states I can only shoot a certain number of whatever a day. Period! Its quite clear. I even thought the low-brow waterfowlers could even understand it.
> 
> If a CO wants to go through a "pile" of birds, I better be able to ****-certain identify what I shot...and if he witnesses you shoot more than your fair share he ****-sure aughta give you a ticket.


Show me where it says party hunting birds, other than The birds that require a tag to harvest, is illegal. And while you are at it, show me where it says piling birds is illegal...


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Well for the slower among us, a Bag Limit is defined as:

Bag limit means the maximum limit, in number
or amount, of protected wildlife that one person
may legally take during one day.

Quite simply, you can pile them any way you want...but YOU can only shoot the amount of birds (or whatever) allowed by law, per day.

If there are 12 ducks in a pile...and you shot 9 of them...you broke the ****ing law dip****! 

I guess some of us failed reading comprehension and elementary math....


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

InvaderZim said:


> Umm...maybe I'm just a dummy...but itn't the definiation of a DAILY BAG limit the same thing as a law against party hunting. It very clearly states I can only shoot a certain number of whatever a day. Period! Its quite clear. I even thought the low-brow waterfowlers could even understand it.
> 
> If a CO wants to go through a "pile" of birds, I better be able to ****-certain identify what I shot...and if he witnesses you shoot more than your fair share he ****-sure aughta give you a ticket.


It's not about daily bag limit. I agree that the daily bag limit is the law, shoot your 7 ducks, 2 pheasants, 10 doves or whatever an stop shooting. If you shoot more than that, you're breaking the law. If you shoot 8 ducks or 3 pheasants and the CO witnesses it or you turn yourself in, I would expect there to be a ticket.

My issue with this thread is there is no need to store, pile, or label the birds you shoot. It may help you keep track better, but there is no law that states you need to do such. There is no CO that is going to be able to write you up unless he has evidence to support that you took more than your daily bag. A pile of 13 ducks in the boat of 2 hunters would never hold up in court unless you admitted to shooting more than your limit. If asked by a CO which are your ducks, simply pull the 7 ducks you shot out of the pile and say you shot these 7 ducks. If you're not sure which of the 3 hen mallards you shot, doesn't matter which one you pick if you only shot 1 hen mallard.

This is a myth perpetuated by the guys that are more worried about everyone else than themselves and feel it is their duty to police everyone and their dog. You know the type, the guys that call someone a poacher for posting a pic without having a clue about the details.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

InvaderZim said:


> Well for the slower among us, a Bag Limit is defined as:
> 
> Bag limit means the maximum limit, in number
> or amount, of protected wildlife that one person
> ...


Im still waiting for you to show me where it says party hunting for birds is illegal.... o-||


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

shaun larsen said:


> Im still waiting for you to show me where it says party hunting for birds is illegal.... o-||





> Bag limit means the maximum limit, in number
> or amount, of protected wildlife that *one person*
> may legally take during one day.


Jeebus, how hard is this... ONE person... it clearly states ONE PERSON in the bag limit definition.

-DallanC


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## ajwildcat (Mar 27, 2008)

o-||


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

:mrgreen:


DallanC said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > Im still waiting for you to show me where it says party hunting for birds is illegal.... o-||
> ...


So I'm not the only one that gets it! Thank god! And you're even a duck hunter. :mrgreen:

Shaun, it says nothing in the procs about party hunting...BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED TO! It says it very plainly, in black and white, and you can shoot only so many birds a day. Period. I mean for **** sakes, I did a lot of weed as a youth and I can understand that!


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

InvaderZim said:


> ... I even thought the low-brow waterfowlers could even understand it...


Definition of "low-brow waterfowler": anyone who disagrees with my opinion and hunts waterfowl.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

By the way, if the definition of and illegality of "party hunting" is so blatantly obvious then why did the fish and game department go to the trouble to define it and declare it illegal in their published big game rules? Maybe because it is not actually obvious, at least not to the people who wrote the regs.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Here is the only definition of "Party Hunting" given by the Division:

Party hunting
Utah Code § 23-19-1 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-15
You may not take a big game animal for
another person. For example, you cannot kill a
big game animal, and then tag the animal with a
tag that belongs to one of your hunting companions.
This practice is called “party hunting,” and
it’s illegal.


Notice two things. It refers only to "big game" animals, and it specifically includes "tagging" as part of the definition. Therefore, if a game animal is not "big game" it is not included in the definition, and if it does not involve "tagging" it is not included in the definition. Thus, upland game and waterfowl are not part of the definition of party hunting.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

InvaderZim said:


> :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> DallanC said:
> ...


you are missing the point jackass. im not disputing what is ILLEGAL. im saying, show me where it says in the bird regs where PARTY HUNTING, when tags are not involved, is illegal. it does not DEFINE 'PARTY HUNTING' in the bird regs ANYWHERE. it does in the big game regs, but that is completely different than birds. all it refers to is bag limits, meaning someone cannot posess more than a legal limit for ONE person, meaning themselves. but it doesnt say its illegal for 9 guys to team up and kill 1 bird, which is, by definition, PARTY HUNTING. it doesnt say that 9 guys cannot throw all their birds into 1 pile. thats the issue!! not how many birds one person can kill in one day. all im guilty of is stating an OPINION. which you clearly dont agree with, but it doesnt mean im wrong.

now go ahead and ban me, cuz im sure thats what youre gonna do since i called you a name. but when you do, just remember, your language and name calling is offensive also. "low-brow waterfowler" is an insult to me and im sure it is to other as well. it is a name, which im sure you are aware, is against forum rules. so if you dont mind, please, also ban yourself for 2 weeks so you can learn the same lesson im about to o-||

im out, see ya'll later :lol:


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

I wouldn’t ban ya...that'd just be mean...and I kind of antagonized ya. Plus one ill turn doesn’t deserve another. Yes, I was being a little mean…but sakes alive this is stuff we learned in kindergarten!

It’s you who are still missing the point. The upland game proc does not cover "Party Hunting" in those exact words because it does not have too. The good folks at the division, apparently, improperly assumed we were smart enough to understand that the term “bag limit” supersedes the definition of party hunting.

For instance it is not illegal, by definition, for 9 guys to all unload on the same duck...that is not party hunting by definition. That is, by definition, a bunch of huggin' morons out in the mud with oversized chokes and oversized egos...and more than likely undersized male genitalia. This is also known in Utah as duck hunting. But not illegal. The illegalities come into place when one of the group, who clearly did NOT shoot the duck, claims it for himself. 

There is nothing illegal (albeit unethical and poor sportsmanship) to leave all your birds in a pile, as long as the CO can't prove you shot more than your fair share. That burden lies on the CO and the Division…but you better **** well have your ducks in a row (pun intended.)

I guess what I'm trying to pound into your head is that the definition of party hunting is not needed in the upland game and waterfowl guidebooks, as the thoughts on bag limits, explanations therein, and crystal clear definitions supersede and negate the need for it.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

massmanute said:


> By the way, if the definition of and illegality of "party hunting" is so blatantly obvious then why did the fish and game department go to the trouble to define it and declare it illegal in their published big game rules? Maybe because it is not actually obvious, at least not to the people who wrote the regs.


Well, again, thats just simple.

I'm going to explain this in big bold letters:

BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BAG LIMIT LAWS FOR BIG GAME!

Ya know, cause you can shoot only one (well, basically, at least at a time.)

So thats why a definition is needed for the big game proc...but not the upland game proc. Again, in big letters...THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME! Tomatoes...toma'toes!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I get what everyone is saying on this thread. I think what people are asking is, how is the CO able to write a ticket unless he blatantly saw someone shoot over 7 birds. I always have them in seperate piles on the opener for the CO to see, and they usually say thank you for that. But party hunting shouldn't even be an issue. I think party hunting is for people who are terrible shots, rather than take turns, they like to all blast at the same duck and let more pellets fly to make up for it. I like knowing which ducks I shoot and know that I shot them. That's why we always take turns on singles and shoot our lanes when a pair comes in.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

The CO's can write all the tickets they want; no amount of legal definition is going to change them doing that. Truth is, a good portion of the time CO's don't know the laws as good as the hunters do! It’s sad but true. I'm sure they have more important things to deal with than knowing the actual wording of the laws they are entrusted to uphold.

...if you didn’t do anything illegal you can have your day in court, and you should prevail. They call is the justice system and troubled it may be, it’s not there to put bad people away...it’s there to keep honest people free!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Sheesh...waterfowl guys get dumber every day :mrgreen: ...please tell me this isn't the shinning few. Why are we discussing party hunting? It looks like there are several guys on here I will never hunt with because they feel the need to fill my bag limits as well as their own. :roll: 


BTW, Zim, I love you man. 8)


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Boys, boys, boys, this whole discussion about bag limits etc. is fine and all that, but the intent of my original posting was to simply inform you that* IF*, please note the word *IF* you are stopped by a CO and *IF* he suspects that party hunting( party hunting is not a legal term but a term normally used to refer to a practice of one hunter shooting more game than is allowed and then adding part of his kill to the bag limit of another hunter that is in his party in order to fill each hunters individual bag limit) has occurred, and *IF* your birds are piled, he* WILL* and *CAN* use that information as part of his case against you. The fact that you have the birds piled just looks bad to him and more importantly it will look bad to the judge! 
Sooo...sure, you gays can certainly pile the birds anyway **** way you please, there is no* law* against piling.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

bwhntr said:


> Sheesh...waterfowl guys get dumber every day :mrgreen: ...please tell me this isn't the shinning few. Why are we discussing party hunting? It looks like there are several guys on here I will never hunt with because they feel the need to fill my bag limits as well as their own. :roll:
> 
> BTW, Zim, I love you man. 8)


Since the only regulation that defines and prohibits party hunting is the big game regulation, then how about if we all (including you) let you and your hunting buddies do it one way, and other people and their hunting buddies do it the another way, and how about if, in the absence of a rule (and no one has shown that there is a rule on party hunting, other than big game) everyone quit telling everyone else how they must act?

Now, if and when the fish and game department decides to specifically prohibit the practice with regard to upland game and/or waterfowl then all this could change, but for now why not just live and let live?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Actually I really don't care how many birds you kill, nor do I care if you party hunt. If you do Karma will catch up with you and you can deal with the consequences. It's that simple...I really don't care.


...however it is fun to see how simple waterfowlers really are. :mrgreen:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not sure how this is even an issue. No matter what you are hunting or fishing. You are not allowed to shoot something and have someone else tag it, nor are you allowed to catch or shoot anything and later include it in someone else's bag limit. You cannot harvest beyond your own bag limit.

As for one pile of ducks vs. individual piles of ducks in a duck blind, if the CO didn't see you shoot more than your limit, he has nothing to stand on. Except your own word and that of your hunting partners. Which more often than not, is what will result in a ticket for you.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

Too bad people are so greedy that they cannot seem to understand a simple law on *personal* bag limits. As previously stated you cannot shoot or catch more fish than your bag limit on a given day no matter how many people are in your party and if they do not have their *personal* bag limits. Shot more than your limit by allowing another person in your party to claim your catch/animal so you are not over limit is not right (even thought the law doesn't spell it out this can still be defined as party hunting, or hunting for someone else's in your parties daily bag limit) Sure it is easy to do this and not get caught. It is also simple for CO and or a concerned hunter to simply watch what you shoot/catch and have a citation issued for shooting/catching an over limit. It mostly comes down to personal integrity as stated previously


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One thing is you can not lump fishing into this discussion since you can catch as many fish as you want. You can even keep fishing and catching after you have your limit, you just can't keep any after you have your limit. 

Kind of hard to do when you are shooting a animal or bird.


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

You may be able to keep fishing when you reached your limit, but you still cannot catch a fish and give it to someone else in your party and not include it in your daily bag limit so you can keep more fish. 

I personally think it is not wise to keep fishing once you have reached your daily bag limit. It may not be against the law, but if you for whatever reason catch one and have it die you will be over you daily bag limit.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

leviwin said:


> You may be able to keep fishing when you reached your limit, but you still cannot catch a fish and give it to someone else in your party and not include it in your daily bag limit so you can keep more fish.
> 
> I personally think it is not wish to keep fishing once you have reached your daily bag limit. It may not be against the law, but if you for whatever reason catch one and have it die you will be over you daily bag limit.


Ahh. One of my biggest gripes about the whole "quit fishing when you've got your limit" argument is the "what if you catch one that's gonna die?" argument. Better not fish at all then if there are slot limits, or fish that you can't possess in the water where you're fishing. What if you catch a Tiger Muskie that is under 40", and it's gonna die?

Back to bag limits. Until you find a way to "catch and release", you ought to stop shooting when you've bagged your limit.


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