# Terrible Ted cops a deal in poaching case.



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx ... 31&_nwpt=1

Maybe, the dude wasn't the best guy to have at the expo a couple years ago? (Or he could blame his violation on "cat scratch fever"?  )


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## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

So I wonder what would happen if the average joe was caught doing this. Is it just me or is there a lot more cases coming out with high profile people in the hunting world?


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

Quite a week. Poacher and interviewed for threats to the president. I always liked Nugent but he is acting like a dumb ass.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

honestly, dont we all make mistakes tho? in the field and in every day life? no one is 100% all the time, even when we try to be. some of us get caught and are held accountable for our actions, but most of us dont. im not saying what he did should be over looked, but hes stepping up and taking responsibility for what he has done. dumb ass or not, hes done alot of good for our sport. if we had more guys like him in charge, america wouldnt be nearly as screwed up as it is today...


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## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

Yes we all make mistakes and yes he has done alot for the sport, no arguement there. I also think your held in a higher standard being on tv. I just wonder if the average hunter like you and I would be cut the same deals is all?


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

He wounded a bear, couldn't find it and went on a few days later and shot another one. There's a law in Alaska that if you wound an animal you validate your tag anyway. I have no idea how many times I've been to Alaska and I didn't know about that law. I wonder if Ted knew about it?


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

I guess when you listen to the 20 second sound bites on the Obama news network PMSNBC you get the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The only reason that Uncle Ted was brought up on these trumped up charges is because our black panther loving president needed a good smack down for the week to take the heat off his SS boys, so that Michelle would not find out that they had a little Colombian prosty waiting for BERRY on arrival but someone forgot to pay the tab. 

Ted's comments at the NRA convention were meant to get gun owners and sportsmen out to Vote in November not to assassinate a dumb ass! Obama has more to fear from Louis Faracon than uncle Ted. Maybe Berry should get Eric Holder doing his job and stop terrorizing little white girls. 

The Alaska law was written to keep gun happy tourists from shooting a bunch of black bears and not recovering them. Ted and his camera man could see on the camera that he had made sightly grazing shot that did little to no harm to the bear, so they continued to hunt like every other hunter would have. Ted did what was right and took his licks and owned up to the fact that he may have unknowingly violated the law and paid the price. 

Glade to see Mitt come to Ted's defense and show his true spineless colors.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

longbow said:


> He wounded a bear, couldn't find it and went on a few days later and shot another one. There's a law in Alaska that if you wound an animal you validate your tag anyway. I have no idea how many times I've been to Alaska and I didn't know about that law. I wonder if Ted knew about it?


 I sure hope for your sakes that the statute of limitations has expired for you Longbow, you never know who is serfing these sites and Utah has a compact with Alaska.

Big :mrgreen:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Every one who hunts steps on their *edited by moderator* and does something stupid. EVERYONE! It's only illegal if you get caught... Ted is a very public figure and when a guy like that steps on his dick it will always get blown out of proportion by the media. It's just like watching all these hunting shows on TV. What, you think none of those Premos guys have ever crossed the line? RIIIIIGT! :roll: And I NEVER miss a 10 yard shot with my recurve... 

"We love dirty laundry"...


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Every one who hunts steps on their *edited by moderator* and does something stupid. EVERYONE! *It's only illegal if you get caught*... Ted is a very public figure and when a guy like that steps on his dick it will always get blown out of proportion by the media. It's just like watching all these hunting shows on TV. What, you think none of those Premos guys have ever crossed the line? RIIIIIGT! :roll: And I NEVER miss a 10 yard shot with my recurve...
> 
> "We love dirty laundry"...


Really? That is what I am supposed to tell my grandkids when they lift a piece of candy from the store...its only illegal if you get caught....really?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

bigbr said:


> The Alaska law was written to keep gun happy tourists from shooting a bunch of black bears and not recovering them. Ted and his camera man could see on the camera that he had made sightly grazing shot that did little to no harm to the bear, so they continued to hunt like every other hunter would have. Ted did what was right and took his licks and owned up to the fact that he may have unknowingly violated the law and paid the price.


I do like the intent of the law, but if they could clearly see the animal was not seriously injured I would think that he would get off w/o issue, but who knows? 
If he just wasn't aware of the law...different issue even though ethically I think those who injure a game animal should be validating the tag also regardless of what the law is.


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## HunterGeek (Sep 13, 2007)

bigbr said:


> I guess when you listen to the 20 second sound bites on the Obama news network PMSNBC you get the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


What on earth does Barack Obama have to do with Ted Nugent committing and being charged with a wildlife law violation in Alaska?



bigbr said:


> Obama has more to fear from Louis Faracon than uncle Ted. Maybe Berry should get Eric Holder doing his job and stop terrorizing little white girls.


Somehow I just don't think that Obama is paying a whole lot of attention to Ted Nugent and his followers. He doesn't have their votes now, he won't get their votes down the road and spending his time harassing this clown, even if he had the desire and power to pressure Alaska wildlife officials, would produce no tangible election results. And I'm also detecting some overtones of racism in your comments bigbr, which I'm taking issue with.

On a broader note, I'm really tired of the extremists from both ends of the political spectrum spewing their polarizing vomit across this country's political landscape. Five years ago the extremists from one camp were claiming that George Bush was to blame for everything from the price of gasoline to the World Trade Center attacks. Now the extremists from the other camp are blaming Barack Obama for everything from the price of gasoline to persecuting Ted Nugent to secretly potting to hand over the country to some Marxist conspiracy. I disagree with many of Obama's policies, and I'll be voting for Romney in the fall. Still, I respect the current occupant in the Oval Office as the president, I respect his basic decency and I respect his convictions even though I strongly disagree with many of them.



bigbr said:


> Ted and his camera man could see on the camera that he had made sightly grazing shot that did little to no harm to the bear, so they continued to hunt like every other hunter would have.


What school of ethics and sportsman-like behavior did you and Nugent graduate from bigbr? Not everyone keeps hunting after they wound the animal. It doesn't matter if the animal is dead, the tag's been filled. I'll even go one step further and say that at this point it's the hunter's ethical responsibility to do everything possible to track down the animal and finish the job. If he tries and fails that's just part of hunting, but either way the tag's been filled.

From Utah's 2011 Big Game Field Regulation book: "...you may not kill or cripple a big game animal without making a reasonable effort to retrieve it. You must immediately kill any animal you wound and tag the animal." I believe most state's have similar laws and rules to this, as does Alaska. Beyond the law, however, it's a matter of sportsmanship and ethics.


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

The Naturalist said:


> Really? That is what I am supposed to tell my grandkids when they lift a piece of candy from the store...its only illegal if you get caught....really?


Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking. I have nothing against Ted but he really should have known the law. I know he's done a lot for the sport but that doesn't mean he should just shoot first and learn the laws later. As for his comments that drew attention from the secret service... No mature and intelligent adult would say that we need to "ride in and cut their heads off in november" at a national convention, even if it was a metaphor. He was just asking for attention, just like when he said that he would either be "dead or in jail by this time next year" if obama got reelected. He has some good music, and it's cool that he promotes hunting, but he can be a dumb*** for sure.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

i have to wonder as i have read the scope of the article that if everyone of who has wounded a animal and it has for one reason or another escaped punched out there tag and didnt hunt the remainder of the season could honestly say they would do it. i have hunted cwmu units that there standing rule is if you draw blood your done and im fine with that. but i will also admit that i have wounded a animal are two and though we have searched long and hard could not find it and continued with the hunt. for those that can say this and mean it my hats off to you with the utmost respect to you as a sportsman but if the truth be know i dont really think there are all that many out there. as far as legality in utah i cannot find anywere it says that if you wound a animal and it escapes that your are required to punch your tag for the season please correct me if im wrong. like the old saying goes let he who is without sin cast the first stone. in this case im not looking for any rockpiles to be sure.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A couple of comments.

1.


muzzlehunter said:


> So I wonder what would happen if the average Joe was caught doing this. Is it just me or is there a lot more cases coming out with high profile people in the hunting world?


I do understand where some of you are going with this, and I can't say that it isn't possible, but one also has to consider who is making the complaint. I have a lot of difficulty accepting that the Alaska F&G is anti hunting and has an agenda to harass and embarrass prominent hunters.

2.


The Naturalist said:


> [quote="TEX-O-BOB":1n72pru6]Every one who hunts steps on their dick and does something stupid. EVERYONE! *It's only illegal if you get caught*... Ted is a very public figure and when a guy like that steps on his dick it will always get blown out of proportion by the media. It's just like watching all these hunting shows on TV. What, you think none of those Premos guys have ever crossed the line? RIIIIIGT! :roll: And I NEVER miss a 10 yard shot with my recurve...
> 
> "We love dirty laundry"...


Really? That is what I am supposed to tell my grandkids when they lift a piece of candy from the store...its only illegal if you get caught....really?[/quote:1n72pru6]

+1, Naturalist.

3.


mack1950 said:


> i will also admit that i have wounded a animal are two and though we have searched long and hard could not find it and continued with the hunt. for those that can say this and mean it my hats off to you with the utmost respect to you as a sportsman but if the truth be know i dont really think there are all that many out there. as far as legality in utah i cannot find anywere it says that if you wound a animal and it escapes that your are required to punch your tag for the season please correct me if im wrong. like the old saying goes let he who is without sin cast the first stone. in this case im not looking for any rockpiles to be sure.


It isn't a law in Utah, but it is in Alaska. The ethical discussion is a good one to have when there are no laws binding action, but when you are on a hunt, lugging a camera crew with you, you better be holding your actions to a higher standard, since you are parading your actions for the whole world to see.

And I guess that is why I'm a bit disappointed in Terrible Ted here. When you become an outspoken voice of a certain political position as he has, and you screw up like this, you, right or wrong, slightly discredit everyone else that supports the position with you and to some extent, the position itself, in the battle of public opinion. If he is going to be a main voice for hunting in 2012, I don't think he can act like a 1970's era rocker. (Just my opinion)


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

a little off subject... speaking of TV hunting stars... please correct me if im wrong, but isnt it illegal to hunt and harvest big game in utah, during the any weapon hunt, with a muzzy that has a scope bigger than a 1x on it?


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## muzzlehunter (Nov 29, 2009)

You would think if any of the hunting celebs with national tv shows would take the time to research the different states they was filming in, you cant just assume laws are the same from state to state. Looking into it more I dont agree with that law in Alaska, but that their law. Yes no matter how good of a hunter we think we are wounding an animal is bound to happen. That shouldnt mean your tag is punched, jmo. Ted can be out there and say some off the wall stuff, over all he has been a powerful voice for the sport. Just be nice if him and others could be more careful because they are on a national stage.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

The Naturalist said:


> [quote="TEX-O-BOB":2o8gu5vh]Every one who hunts steps on their *edited by moderator* and does something stupid. EVERYONE! *It's only illegal if you get caught*... Ted is a very public figure and when a guy like that steps on his dick it will always get blown out of proportion by the media. It's just like watching all these hunting shows on TV. What, you think none of those Premos guys have ever crossed the line? RIIIIIGT! :roll: And I NEVER miss a 10 yard shot with my recurve...
> 
> "We love dirty laundry"...


Really? That is what I am supposed to tell my grandkids when they lift a piece of candy from the store...its only illegal if you get caught....really?[/quote:2o8gu5vh]

Relax there Paul Blart, I only said that to make a point. One that you have obviously remained oblivious to. MY POINT: May be didn't know that what he did was illegal and if he hadn't got caught doing it, nothing would have happened. Some times the laws are vague, sometimes with a little too much gray area. Some times they're just so stupid and silly you break them anyway just be prove a point and exercise civil disobedience. Either way I dont advocate breaking the law and if MY grandkids got caught lifting a piece of candy I'd blister their little asses. May be I could have been a little less vague in the first place...


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not now, nor have ever been a fan of the way Ted chooses to hunt, display his hunting, and the way he portrays it in his TV show. Hunting has been part of my entire life. And I find his show, his schtik, and pretty much everything about his show offensive. It turns my stomach to watch the way he represents the hunting community. His show does more to harm the public perception of hunting than any PETA or other group could ever do. In my opinion, the further the hunting world distances themselves from Terrible Ted, the better off we will be. And I held that opinion before this poaching conviction. I have felt that his depiction of hunting is driven by his own thrill of drawing blood as though he has some kind of personal vendetta against his selected prey. He shows no respect to his quarry - something I see in nearly everyone that frequents this site, and frankly nearly every other hunting media outlet displays. His glorification of killing exceeds the heritage of hunting. I know you can't have one without the other. But he does hunting and hunters no favors with ANY of his words or actions.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Gary

While there is _something_ to the Cat scratch fever rift, I must say, well written. :_O=:

Everyone

Pardon me as I trip all over this with a clumsy follow up. If we as hunters dont hold him and the behavior accountable, who does? The non hunting general public? If we dont police our ranks, guide and set our own ethics, someone else will do it, there is no doubt about that fact. So who besides us should do it? PETA? the ALF?


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

+1 Gary. You hit the nail on the head.


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## Renegade (Sep 11, 2007)

Ted didn't plead not guilty. He didn't fight the violation. He manned up & paid his dues to the tune of ten grand, a 2 year hunting privilege suspension, and a requirement to run Public Service Announcements on his TV show. 

I don't know if Ted knew what he did was against the law or not, most likely he didn't know it was against the law-or he wouldn't have put it on TV! Regardless, he paid the penalty, and a LOT more hunters will know what the law is thanks to him.

Now think about that law for a minute. As a conservation officer, how in the heck are you supposed to enforce that law? If you find a dead or wounded animal, are you supposed to have forensic tests done on the arrow or bullet to be sure that the guy who owns them didn't tag another animal?


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

Renegade said:


> Ted didn't plead not guilty. He didn't fight the violation. He manned up & paid his dues to the tune of ten grand, a 2 year hunting privilege suspension, and a requirement to run Public Service Announcements on his TV show.


Yeah, he admitted it. But how are you supposed to fight something when you filmed yourself doing it?


Renegade said:


> Now think about that law for a minute. As a conservation officer, how in the heck are you supposed to enforce that law? If you find a dead or wounded animal, are you supposed to have forensic tests done on the arrow or bullet to be sure that the guy who owns them didn't tag another animal?


I think the law is supposed to be more of an ethical thing, something you follow because you know it's a rule, not something they intended to have to completely enforce. That's sort of like saying how do we enforce poaching? Are we supposed to do forensics test on a poached animal? It's hard to enforce both of them, but there was an ethical reason behind both.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

:roll:


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

The good old eye roll- When you want to convey that what someone is saying is ridiculous, but you don't actually have an intelligent way of saying it.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> :roll:


couldnt have said it better myself...


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

HunterGeek said:


> What on earth does Barack Obama have to do with Ted Nugent committing and being charged with a wildlife law violation in Alaska?





bigbr said:


> The only reason that Uncle Ted was brought up on these trumped up charges is because our black panther loving president needed a good smack down for the week to take the heat off his SS boys, so that Michelle would not find out that they had a little Colombian prosty waiting for BERRY on arrival but someone forgot to pay the tab.





HunterGeek said:


> Somehow I just don't think that Obama is paying a whole lot of attention to Ted Nugent and his followers. He doesn't have their votes now, he won't get their votes down the road and spending his time harassing this clown, even if he had the desire and power to pressure Alaska wildlife officials, would produce no tangible election results.


http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/04/18/who ... s-funeral/
Right&#8230;.. tell that to the Family of fallen seal that asked to have Uncle Ted play at his funeral and after Ted dropped everything and flew to the funeral site, the presumed state department, against the family's wishes, told Ted he was not invited.

Amazing how those out spoken individuals of Obama get audits from the IRS including Ted and Glenn Beck.

Uncle Ted has now been dismissed from his US Army performance. 
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder ... -more-gigs


HunterGeek said:


> And I'm also detecting some overtones of racism in your comments bigbr, which I'm taking issue with.


 Yes, HG, you nailed it! Bigbr is a modern day Archie Bunker. And Berry Obama is a modern day George Jefferson. Oh and let me place a few other evil titles to my resume; Capitalist, Constitutionalist, Tea Pastiest, Conservative, Historian. My Latino wife and interracial family members remind me of that at every family picnic.

I could care less that BHO is black, what matters to me is his policies and actions.

President Obama has been the biggest racial, anti Semitic, divisive president in modern history.

Amazing how men of color can show up at the polling place wearing black barras and little panther insignias on their hats threatening to harm white voters with clubs, on TV and the president and Eric Holder dismiss the case as un founded. And where was our presidents outrage with this little stunt. Why were these thugs not charge under 1968 voting rights laws? http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bla ... FORM=VIRE1

The same group of men of color issued a $10,000.00 Reward dead or alive for a presumed innocent man working his way through a bad situation using legal means with Spike Lee tweeting his address, and no intervening federal legal action. Why was that, do you think it was because they were Christian? Why such a double standard?

What about the documented Voter fraud perpetrated by ACORN and other groups funded by Obama. Sure glad we added 5 more trillion dollars of debt funding all the valuable social projects that have further bankrupted the country and strengthened our enemies both domestic and foreign. Obama makes Richard Nixon look like Mother Teresa when it comes to vote tampering.

I believe it was the late Senator Robert "KKK" Bird that said; Racists are either skinheads or liberals and he should know because he was in both camps.



Hunter Geek said:


> On a broader note, I'm really tired of the extremists from both ends of the political spectrum spewing their polarizing vomit across this country's political landscape. Five years ago the extremists from one camp were claiming that George Bush was to blame for everything from the price of gasoline to the World Trade Center attacks. Now the extremists from the other camp are blaming Barack Obama for everything from the price of gasoline to persecuting Ted Nugent to secretly potting to hand over the country to some Marxist conspiracy. I disagree with many of Obama's policies, and I'll be voting for Romney in the fall. Still, I respect the current occupant in the Oval Office as the president, I respect his basic decency and I respect his convictions even though I strongly disagree with many of them.


Hunter Geek, Maybe you should look up the definition of socialist, communist and Marxist to see where they might apply? You may respect his decency and convictions, but the man and his conviction scare the hell out of me and should any freedom loving citizen in America.



bigbr said:


> Ted and his camera man could see on the camera that he had made slightly grazing shot that did little to no harm to the bear, so they continued to hunt like every other hunter would have.





Hunter Geek said:


> What school of ethics and sportsman-like behavior did you and Nugent graduate from bigbr? Not everyone keeps hunting after they wound the animal. It doesn't matter if the animal is dead, the tag's been filled. I'll even go one step further and say that at this point it's the hunter's ethical responsibility to do everything possible to track down the animal and finish the job. If he tries and fails that's just part of hunting, but either way the tag's been filled.
> 
> From Utah's 2011 Big Game Field Regulation book: "...you may not kill or cripple a big game animal without making a reasonable effort to retrieve it. You must immediately kill any animal you wound and tag the animal." I believe most state's have similar laws and rules to this, as does Alaska. Beyond the law, however, it's a matter of sportsmanship and ethics.


 I tend to operate under the guidline of comon sense and no BS...



news said:


> Under federal sentencing guidelines, the maximum penalty is one year in prison and $100,000 fine.
> Nugent's attorney told the Anchorage Daily News on Friday that his client, who has previously hunted in the same area, was unaware of the law, which was introduced less than five years ago. He told the newspaper he watched the video clip from Nugent's show and the arrow "touched" the bear and stuck in the ground. http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-21/just ... PM:JUSTICE


Reports have it that both Nugent and his camera man testified that they did take reasonable measures to find the bear after the shot and tracked the animal as far as they could, but only found a small amount of blood at the place where the bear was first grazed by the arrow.

It must have been such an obvious miss that Nugent and his production staff aired the footage without any fear of ever being charge under federal statutes.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be an Obama witch hunt.

Well I will continue to wear my rose colored conspearacy glass, because the truth is just so outlandish.....Big


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> :roll:


+1 1/8!!!

So, Tex...there must be SOMETHING out there worth discussing, because this isn't.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

I always see the same people, make the same arguements, when it comes to poaching. And they are always more than happy to make it a grey area. And then turn right around, and tell you about the black and white world as they see it. And its always about thier "values". Hunter ethics are not about us, they are about something greater than us. If you think that you as a hunter, transend hunting, that is probably were the arogance that you use to justify your own poaching comes from. I have said it before, it hold true today, if you excuse or condone the poaching of others here, you, yourself are more inclined to poach in the field. 

It is always someone elses fault, right?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh snap!...yes, you just nailed it. To catagorize all hunters that find this thread ridiculas as supporters of poachers is a broad stroke. You're a genius. :roll:


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

"You're a genius." Well you're a poacher.....Oh right, you got me, it is about what you can prove. 

Why is it ridiculous, because it deals with real issues, that affect the hunting community as a whole. Or because poaching as an issue is something you dont like to discuss, why is that?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

If he broke the law, he should suffer the consequences...it is that simple. Ignorance is NEVER a good excuse!


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Lonetree said:


> "You're a genius." Well you're a poacher.....


i dont care who that comment is directed towards, those are pretty strong words... id be careful.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> "You're a genius." Well you're a poacher.....Oh right, you got me, it is about what you can prove.
> 
> Why is it ridiculous, because it deals with real issues, that affect the hunting community as a whole. Or because poaching as an issue is something you dont like to discuss, why is that?


Do you think you know me? I sure as hell don't pretend to know you.

I do not advocate poaching of any kind, I am also not one to play internet police. I find it interesting how people claim to know all the facts based on what the media feeds them. I think Ted does a lot for conversatives and sportsman, however he is on the extreme right of most all the issues. That can be hard for people to stomach.

If he did make a mistake while hunting, then he should pay for it and move on. I do not believe that it defines him as a person. The problem with the so called facts is it is fed to us through the very biased media. The issues I have with this thread causing me to make the "ridiculas" comments were not only about the poaching stories but about the media attention Ted is getting collectively. I don't understand how this is offensive to you, but it wasn't my intent to target you directly.

Everyday you can see examples where the public is playing judge and jury from the convenience of our arm chairs with one source for our information. I know I get caught up in it from time to time. This was just a place for me to express my frustration with this type of behavior.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

"I do not advocate poaching of any kind" Glad to see you are on board.

No I dont know you, but you do seem to be worried about being judged, this is about judgement, and consequence. 

You dislike the coverage, of this issue, I get it, thats your perogative, but it does not change the facts of the matterr, or decrease its seriousness. If the way behavior is covered by the media were an excuse for any accountabilty of it, President Obama can just point at Fox news, and brush off all accountability, right?


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Warning: Lets be carefull with the name calling. Let's put down the "names' and back away slowly. Count to ten. Go geta cup of joe, Mountain Dew or whatever.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

I think it’s safe to say that the majority of the members of this forum “do not advocate poaching.” I think that the eye roll from some, (and I’d add my eye roll to theirs) is due to the implications behind those shared opinions. I for one don’t, and would never be so naïve as to claim that I am and have always been perfect in the field. I hunt, a lot…in a lot of other states and countries. I can tell you from experience that it is EXTREMELY difficult to be comfortable with EVERY LAW, from every state and country that I have hunted. I would never claim that I have been 100%, even though that is always my intent when I venture into the field. Many laws, I have learned, and will never forget, because I actually BROKE IT, and learned later that I had. Am I proud of that? Absolutely not, but I’m not going to sit behind a screen and confess that I am perfect, which is where the eye roll is coming from….

It’s an honest mistake, and it happens if you are a serious hunter. And, if it truly has never happened to you, IT WILL. The more you hunt, and the more you venture outside of the comfort of your private backyard tree-stand/blind that you’ve hunted your whole life, the more complicated the laws become…. 

I accept that it happens, it’s part of hunting unfortunately, even if “you do not advocate poaching.” Do I support Ted in all of his antics, no probably not. But I do respect what he has done for the sport, and I do respect for the way he owned up to it, plead guilty, and righted his wrong. 

Some people will always cast judgement…..


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

My point is that the gray area arguement, and the attitude of hunters directly corelates to behavior in the field. As these debates about poaching and ethics have "evolved" over the last few decades, poaching has risen sharply. Rhetoric and Culture, become Action in this case. At the heart of this is the cynical mistrust of "authority", that has replaced a healthy critical thinking skepticism. Come on, the division lies about deer counts, so "they" cant be trusted, same with "their" laws. This is an over simplification of the issue, and you can poo poo it all you want, but that is what is at work at the root of this. Without a heavy push back from within the hunting comminity, the resourse will continue to be lost to a culture issue we refuse to address head on. The problem is all of ours.

Beating this particular dead horse has nothing to do with horse being beaten, its all about the other horses watching.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Duckholla said:


> I think it's safe to say that the majority of the members of this forum "do not advocate poaching." I think that the eye roll from some, (and I'd add my eye roll to theirs) is due to the implications behind those shared opinions. I for one don't, and would never be so naïve as to claim that I am and have always been perfect in the field. I hunt, a lot&#8230;in a lot of other states and countries. I can tell you from experience that it is EXTREMELY difficult to be comfortable with EVERY LAW, from every state and country that I have hunted. I would never claim that I have been 100%, even though that is always my intent when I venture into the field. Many laws, I have learned, and will never forget, because I actually BROKE IT, and learned later that I had. Am I proud of that? Absolutely not, but I'm not going to sit behind a screen and confess that I am perfect, which is where the eye roll is coming from&#8230;.
> 
> It's an honest mistake, and it happens if you are a serious hunter. And, if it truly has never happened to you, IT WILL. The more you hunt, and the more you venture outside of the comfort of your private backyard tree-stand/blind that you've hunted your whole life, the more complicated the laws become&#8230;.
> 
> ...


Good post, thank you for your thoughts.


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

Duckholla said:


> I think it's safe to say that the majority of the members of this forum "do not advocate poaching." I think that the eye roll from some, (and I'd add my eye roll to theirs) is due to the implications behind those shared opinions. I for one don't, and would never be so naïve as to claim that I am and have always been perfect in the field...
> ... Absolutely not, but I'm not going to sit behind a screen and confess that I am perfect, which is where the eye roll is coming from&#8230;.


Who claimed they were perfect? No one as far as I can tell. Just because some people think that Ted got what he deserved makes them self-righteous hunters that believe they haven't ever made a mistake? I can't even follow that point of view.


Duckholla said:


> It's an honest mistake, and it happens if you are a serious hunter. And, if it truly has never happened to you, IT WILL. The more you hunt, and the more you venture outside of the comfort of your private backyard tree-stand/blind that you've hunted your whole life, the more complicated the laws become&#8230;.


I have to disagree, I don't believe that "IT WILL" happen. I think the more you hunt, the greater the chances are of it occurring, but hunters are always in ultimate control. You CAN learn the laws first if you want to, it doesn't always have to be trial and error.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Last Man Standing said:


> Duckholla said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's safe to say that the majority of the members of this forum "do not advocate poaching." I think that the eye roll from some, (and I'd add my eye roll to theirs) is due to the implications behind those shared opinions. I for one don't, and would never be so naïve as to claim that I am and have always been perfect in the field...
> ...


+1

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it! I am glad that Ted was forced to pay the consequences of his mistake...like it or not, he is in the public eye and he should be held to a higher standard. We should be glad that he was held accountable...!


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Last Man Standing said:
> 
> 
> > Duckholla said:
> ...


Lastman - I never said you or anybody else said they were perfect, I said they implied that through their comments and their position of opinion. You can stand behind a screen, and make your opinions heard by all, but perspective readers are going to think differently and sometimes even question your logic. You don't have to follow that point of view, nobody is asking you to. You are 100% correct, the hunter is in control. I agree completely, but to assume that this will never happen to you is an arrogant comment as far as I am concerned, and the very reason that IT DOES occur! I can say that, because I used to believe that. I used to believe that I could follow every law, and that is my intent, completely and whole heartedly, but I will not be so naïve as to claim that I will NEVER unknowingly break another hunting reg in my life. C'mon man&#8230;really? You've never showed up to camp, or thought that what is common in one state would be common in another? Have you ever hunted out of state before? You're right, it doesn't HAVE to be trial and error, but sometimes unfortunately it is, and the best we as Sportsman can hope for is that people act responsibly when it happens, and learn from it. Period, just like Ted did. And I agree, ignorance is no excuse for breaking a law, which is why I commend Ted for pleading guilty and making right his wrong.

Lastman - by your comments, I am assuming that you've NEVER in your past actually accidently broken a reg, or would have otherwise broken a reg had a buddy not corrected you prior to your hunt? Are you claiming that you have been 100% perfect, every time you've been in the field?


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## huntinco (Sep 23, 2007)

Terriable Ted? I think not!
Should he be held to a higher set of standards? Nope! He should be held to the exact same standard as everyone and it looks like he was.

If every humans life on this planet was video taped we would all get some sort of ticket in the mail or worse 
& I don't envy the TV show guys at all.
I actuly prefer the GnF to show up @ my camps on a regular basis


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Last Man Standing said:


> The good old eye roll- When you want to convey that what someone is saying is ridiculous, but you don't actually have an intelligent way of saying it.


 :roll: :roll: ... There is that better?

Sometimes, intelligence is better conveyed by not wasting the time it would take to respond to someone or something....


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

huntinco said:


> Terriable Ted? I think not!
> Should he be held to a higher set of standards? Nope! He should be held to the exact same standard as everyone and it looks like he was.


Great post. I completely agree. I don't understand why people think being on TV makes you any different. We should all be held to the same standards.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> huntinco said:
> 
> 
> > Terriable Ted? I think not!
> ...


+2


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

bwhntr said:


> huntinco said:
> 
> 
> > Terriable Ted? I think not!
> ...


I agree with this as well. That's why I was happy to see that he wasn't given any sort of leniency because of his celebrity status. The one thing I can think of that being on TV would make different is the fact that you're recording your entire hunt, so if you do break a reg, there's really no way to get out of it.


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

Duckholla said:


> Lastman - by your comments, I am assuming that you've NEVER in your past actually accidently broken a reg, or would have otherwise broken a reg had a buddy not corrected you prior to your hunt? Are you claiming that you have been 100% perfect, every time you've been in the field?


I'm not claiming to be 100% Perfect, I do not put aside the possibility that I may have broken a reg before. But I always spend at least two weeks before a hunt reading through the proc for that animal, ensuring that I know all the regs, including any that may have change from the prior season. I also take about a month to study land ownership maps of the area, to make sure I don't unwittingly trespass, even if the land is unposted, just to cover my own backside. So no, I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I have made a reasonable effort my entire hunting career to know and keep the laws and regs, and as far as I know, I have done just that.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

bwhntr said:


> I don't understand why people think being on TV makes you any different. We should all be held to the same standards.


While I too technically agree that all of us should be held to the same (high) standard, I do believe it of the highest importance for prominent pro hunting spokemen and hunting TV show celebs to be absolutely sure about holding to the highest standards. Why? Because from now on, every time Ted is speaking at an expo or and NRA convention or whatever, the liberal news media will likely add the tag line "Convicted poacher, Ted Nugent spoke to hunters today". This won't matter so much to us, or our hard core opponents who already hate us, but it does matter to the vast majority of Americans who are neither hunter OR the PETA crowd. They do greatly matter with policy decisions.

Now a couple more quick comments and I'm done with terrible Ted.



Lonetree said:


> there is _something_ to the Cat scratch fever rift


Nah, Stranglehold was a much better song with a better riff than cat scratch fever. 



huntinco said:


> Terriable Ted? I think not!


Don't get your panties in a wad about the term "terrible Ted". I heard him refer to himself by that name when he was touring. Although I suppose I am of the opinion that his recent actions aren't so hot.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Catherder said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why people think being on TV makes you any different. We should all be held to the same standards.
> ...


This is exactly why he should be held to a higher standard...like it or not, his actions represent all of us; thus, he represents all of us. He should not only take the high ground when it comes to the law, but he should also be taking the higher ground when it comes to hunting ethics as well. Because he is so visible and so outspoken, we as hunters will be lumped in with him. If his actions were borderline unethical and illegal, it gives all hunters a bad name...


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

> Because from now on, every time Ted is speaking at an expo or and NRA convention or whatever, the liberal news media will likely add the tag line "Convicted poacher, Ted Nugent spoke to hunters today".


Outstanding point Catherder. +1 to it.

But I'll add to this - My opinion of his representation of the hunting community is so low, that a poaching conviction does nothing to lessen him in my eyes. I mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again. His antics, actions, approach, and thrill-kill approach to hunting does far more to damage the image of hunting than anything any anti-hunting group could ever do. The best thing I see coming from this conviction would be the show sponsors dropping him like a flaming bag of poop so his show gets cancelled. In my view, he is a disgrace to hunting, hunters, and everything good about hunting.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Have any of you read Nugent's book "God, Guns & Rock n Roll"? Excellent read!

http://www.tednugent.com/Store/Product.aspx?id=SB000008


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## HunterGeek (Sep 13, 2007)

Catherder said:


> While I too technically agree that all of us should be held to the same (high) standard, I do believe it of the highest importance for prominent pro hunting spokemen and hunting TV show celebs to be absolutely sure about holding to the highest standards. Why? Because from now on, every time Ted is speaking at an expo or and NRA convention or whatever, the liberal news media will likely add the tag line "Convicted poacher, Ted Nugent spoke to hunters today".


Agreed.

And the media referring to him in that context is relevant because of the irony and hypocrisy involved. Similarly, when he makes a pro-military statement, the media refers to him as a self-confessed Vietnam draft dodger.

Nugent always speaks his mind, and even though I often agree with much of what he's saying, his style, his past, his hypocrisy, his lack of judgment and his over-the-top behavior alienates a whole lot of everyday, non-hunting, middle-of-the-road people who see him as a slightly dangerous psychotic nut. And that, I think, does far more public relations damage to us, as hunters and gun owners, than any ALF stunt, PETA commercial or pro gun control article that the New York Times might run.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

can someone please answer my question about muzzleloaders in utah used during a LE any weapon elk hunt with a scope larger than 1x? is it legal?


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Sorry wrong thread....


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Last Man Standing said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > huntinco said:
> ...


Exactly. Case in point: Look what happened to the Hooked On Utah guys when they aired that dummy shooting four shells at geese...


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> can someone please answer my question about muzzleloaders in utah used during a LE any weapon elk hunt with a scope larger than 1x? is it legal?


No, such a weapon is not a legal hunting weapon in the state of Utah for any season, or protected specie. Is that what Ted was using or are you lost?


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Huge29 said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > can someone please answer my question about muzzleloaders in utah used during a LE any weapon elk hunt with a scope larger than 1x? is it legal?
> ...


no i had a point to my question...

since we are talking about people in the tv/public hunting world and them breaking the law...

here is a pic of Steve West, from "steves outdoor adventures", on the outdoor channel, and his 2011 any weapon UTAH elk, killed with a muzzy and what appears to be a scope slightly larger than 1x on his rifle...







i found this pic last fall when it was added to the CVA page on Face Book.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=hp ... =3&theater

as far as im aware, burris doesnt make an eliminator scope in a 1x.

ted isnt the only one. looks like more big time people are making more hunting mistakes than we might think...


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Very interesting Shaun...


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

that is a Burris Eliminator 4x-12x-42mm scope. I'll bet money on it.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, and here's the "gray" area I talked about and got reamed for earlier. His hunt was "any weapon" right? So, doesn't that mean *any weapon?* I mean c'mon, an in line muzzle loader with a scope on it is basically for all rights and purposes, a rifle. These guns are perfectly capable of making a shot out to 300 yards in the hands of someone with an IQ slightly higher than a chimp. So, as I interpret the law, he did nothing wrong by using this weapon on an *any* weapon hunt.

Here's something else for you guys to chew on. I hit a deer with my truck in bountiful 20 years ago. A little button buck stepped into the road right as I got there and I clipped his head with my bumper. Clean kill, no meat damaged at all. I pulled over to check it out and realized he was a perfect piece of meat and I was flat broke and needed it. It was also very late at night and I knew getting a fish cop there to write me a possession voucher was out of the question. So, I did what I thought the ethical thing was and took the deer home and cut it up so it wouldn't go to waste. I knew it wasn't legal but I didn't care. Well, my busy body neighbor saw the hide and head in the back of my truck the next day and turned me in. After I explained myself to the fish cop and proved to him I'd hit the deer and not killed it with a weapon, he wrote me a lessor of two *poaching* violations. YES! I am a poacher, according to the state of Utah and certain sanctimonious do-gooders.  :roll: I paid my fine and moved on.

Now it sounds like Uncle Ted hit a bear with his bow, but the animal got away clean and didn't die. Technically under AK law, he's done hunting. But he either didn't know the law or didn't care and shot another one and tagged it all legal and such. He got caught and written a ticket for POACHING. According to the state of AK and certain sanctimonious do-gooder individuals, Ted's a poacher. Period. He paid his fine and moved on.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Well, and here's the "gray" area I talked about and got reamed for earlier. His hunt was "any weapon" right? So, doesn't that mean *any weapon?* I mean c'mon, an in line muzzle loader with a scope on it is basically for all rights and purposes, a rifle. These guns are perfectly capable of making a shot out to 300 yards in the hands of someone with an IQ slightly higher than a chimp. So, as I interpret the law, he did nothing wrong by using this weapon on an *any* weapon hunt.


Yes but you still have to stay in with the law on the scope.So he still broke the law.Shaun I would send that pic of with as much info as you can to the dwr and see what they say.They might go after him for using that. You use it once you will use it again.


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Here's something else for you guys to chew on. I hit a deer with my truck in bountiful 20 years ago. A little button buck stepped into the road right as I got there and I clipped his head with my bumper. Clean kill, no meat damaged at all. I pulled over to check it out and realized he was a perfect piece of meat and I was flat broke and needed it. It was also very late at night and I knew getting a fish cop there to write me a possession voucher was out of the question. So, I did what I thought the ethical thing was and took the deer home and cut it up so it wouldn't go to waste. I knew it wasn't legal but I didn't care. Well, my busy body neighbor saw the hide and head in the back of my truck the next day and turned me in. After I explained myself to the fish cop and proved to him I'd hit the deer and not killed it with a weapon, he wrote me a lessor of two *poaching* violations. YES! I am a poacher, according to the state of Utah and certain sanctimonious do-gooders.  :roll: I paid my fine and moved on.


Although I don't think a citation was warranted, I assume the fish cop was most likely covering his bases so he didn't get in trouble for letting someone off. I think what you did is probably the right thing, but I can imagine that all my neighbors would call someone as well. I probably wouldn't have touched the thing without a permission voucher, just because I know some people are incapable of minding their own business. That story truly sucks, I'm sorry to hear that someone would do that to you.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Why are you sorry? He took home a protected game animal without a licence or permission from the state. Tex clearly broke the law, therefore he recieved a punishment. He paid his fine and moved on with life...now forever if he gets interviewed on TV they will have to say, "This is TexOBob, convicted poacher, here with us tonight..."


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

Think what you want about the 'Nuge' but this is setting a bad precedent. The Alaska DWR had no interest in charging Ted with a crime, the feds did. The judge in his case had never heard of this law before, Ted's guide, who is also his lawyer and lifelong Alaska resident, had never heard of this law. This law applies only to a tiny area of Alaska and not all of Alaska. The law was broken and ignorance is definitely not an excuse but the federal government trying to make an example of someone we don't agree with politically is not right. Should we count every duck we shoot at in our bag limits whether they fly off seemingly untouched and count every fish we hook even if we don' land it? And maybe I am a conspiracy theorist, but why did the charges come the day after Ted supported Mitt Romney for president and his speech for the NRA?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

dingdingding, do we have a winner? Interesting point of view Izzy.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

I don't care what he did. Im not calling the DWR. (But if there was a reward elk permit involved, it would be a different story  ) It doesn't effect me at all. and I believe in a thing called karma. I always try to stay within the laws, but im not anywhere near perfect and im sure somewhere along the lines I've screwed up and didn't know it. I wouldn't want someone crawling all over my butt for something stupid like that again. Been there, done that. Its just a hassle and inconvenient. Plus with all the ethics police and silent DWR officers that frequent this forum, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already tried to get the ball rolling on this issue. 

Unfortunately though, laws are laws. And I read the regs. It clearly states a muzzy with a scope larger than 1x is not a legal weapon to hunt with in this great state. Doesn't matter the season. He did break the law and harvested an elk illegally.

It amazes me how stupid some people are when it comes to posting stuff on the internet. Some people are their own worst enemy.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Last Man Standing said:


> Although I don't think a citation was warranted, I assume the fish cop was most likely covering his bases so he didn't get in trouble for letting someone off. I think what you did is probably the right thing,


Sorry....but, I don't think what you did was the right thing. Had you called and followed the correct steps, you still could have gotten that meat. But, even though you were charged with a lesser "poaching" violation, I would definitely say that what you did isn't poaching. I would also say that what Mr. Nugent did was not poaching...but, it was against the law. Your crimes are probably more akin to traffic violations than serious poaching crimes...there is a difference.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

izzydog said:


> Should we count every duck we shoot at in our bag limits whether they fly off seemingly untouched and count every fish we hook even if we don' land it?


No...because the law doesn't require it. If it did require it, we should. Therein lies the difference. The politics behind the charges may be dumb, the law may be dumb, and the fines may suck, but he broke the law.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

izzydog said:


> And maybe I am a conspiracy theorist, but why did the charges come the day after Ted supported Mitt Romney for president and his speech for the NRA?





bwhntr said:


> dingdingding, do we have a winner? Interesting point of view Izzy.


Give me a break. Wondering about whether Ted is going to support Romney over Obama is about the same as wondering if Al Sharpton or Bill Maher is going to support Obama over Romney. :roll: Carry on with the conspiracy theories. Didn't you know that a black helicopter filmed the footage of Ted thumping that bear?


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## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

wyoming2utah said:


> Sorry....but, I don't think what you did was the right thing. Had you called and followed the correct steps, you still could have gotten that meat. But, even though you were charged with a lesser "poaching" violation, I would definitely say that what you did isn't poaching. I would also say that what Mr. Nugent did was not poaching...but, it was against the law. Your crimes are probably more akin to traffic violations than serious poaching crimes...there is a difference.


I probably should have been more clear, I didn't mean that taking the animal without calling was right, because I think that it was wrong to do so. I meant that using the meat and clearing out the carcass was a good thing.


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## HunterGeek (Sep 13, 2007)

I just looked it up in the Alaska Hunting Regulation handbook. On page 25, in the small section addressing bear regulations, in bright yellow and purple boxes, it says...

[attachment=0:2y2v2xrx]alaskabear.png[/attachment:2y2v2xrx]
Now whether or not the regulations were as prominently displayed in the book back when Nugent's "oversight" occurred, I don't know. If it was, the unavoidable conclusion has to be that neither he nor his guide/producer/whatever even bothered to read the regulations or that he purposely ignored them. Either way, not good, especially considering that he was convicted two years ago in California of another wildlife violation involving baiting deer.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Last Man Standing said:
> 
> 
> > Although I don't think a citation was warranted, I assume the fish cop was most likely covering his bases so he didn't get in trouble for letting someone off. I think what you did is probably the right thing,
> ...


You're right, but there is no difference in the eyes of the law and the statute. It's the same as when a kid has consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend and her parents have him arrested for statutory rape. In the eyes of the law he is a sex offender and HAS to register as one. It aint right, but that's the way it is. What I did was NOT the right thing to do in the eyes of the law, but ethically, it absolutely was the right thing to do and I'd rather be guilty of that guilty of having wasted a game animal. I suppose I could have called the highway patrol, waited for them to wake up a game officer and get him out of bed at two in the morning to drive to Bountiful to write me a voucher, but who has that kind of time...


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Utah's salvage laws are actually the most restrictive I've seen. Other states where I have lived allow you to take care of the roadkill so you can salvage it, as long as you report it within 24 or 48 hours. That way, when you hit it in the middle of the night, you can talk to the game warden the next day. I know the argument about guys running down deer with their vehicles just to take advantage of that. But in all reality, that is nothing short of ludicrous. The meat from any big game animal in Utah is not worth the repair cost that animal will do to your vehicle.

And Tex, while I appreciate you sharing your story - I don't see it related to the Nugent case. He is nothing short of a circus act. I see Nugent to hunting, as Dennis Rodman was to the NBA. Sure he was famous, and sure he had a following. He was outspoken, and put on a wedding dress and married the world. Sure, he could rebound, but he was a freak show that you certainly would never want as the person representing the NBA. Rodman and Nugent are the same person in different worlds. 

And if he is a spokesman and person of note in the defense of hunting and gun ownership, well, his actions and approach do more to destroy our cause than any conceivable good he might ever do. Heck, I'd rather have Karl Malone and Dick Cheney as the front men for our cause than Nugent.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Gary, go put on a John Denver record QUICK before you implode!


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Darin is a poacher. That's funny. The big question is this: How did you plea? :shock:

:roll: :roll: :roll: 

I am going to go shoot my bow.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Tex. I might have to do that. ;-)


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> I know the argument about guys running down deer with their vehicles just to take advantage of that. But in all reality, that is nothing short of ludicrous. The meat from any big game animal in Utah is not worth the repair cost that animal will do to your vehicle.


I can tell you flat out this I know people who do just this, and its legal. In one family, the wife is a schoolbus driver who's bus doesnt take any damage, she radio's her husband to come and get'em when she mow's one over. Know another couple of people as well who mow'em over with specialized coal trucks (modified dumptrucks).

Of course this is in WVA where the deer there are more deer than rabbits but still, it is actually very common there.

-DallanC


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Relax there Paul Blart, I only said that to make a point. One that you have obviously remained oblivious to. MY POINT: May be didn't know that what he did was illegal and if he hadn't got caught doing it, nothing would have happened. Some times the laws are vague, sometimes with a little too much gray area. Some times they're just so stupid and silly you break them anyway just be prove a point and exercise civil disobedience. *Either way I dont advocate breaking the law* and if MY grandkids got caught lifting a piece of candy I'd blister their little asses. May be I could have been a little less vague in the first place...


Thanks TEX I can relax now!


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=20945943&topic_id=24584158


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

jahan said:


> http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=20945943&topic_id=24584158


Very interesting! Thanks for the link Jahan.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

No...because the law doesn't require it. If it did require it, we should. Therein lies the difference. The politics behind the charges may be dumb, the law may be dumb, and the fines may suck, but he broke the law.[/quote]
Don't disagree at all.
But if you don't think politics has anything to do with the zeal behind the charges, I have some ocean front property I'll sell you out in Tooele county, and I'll throw my tinfoil hat in for free!


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## richardjb (Apr 1, 2008)

horsesma said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=20945943&topic_id=24584158
> ...


And some folks here will continue to bad mouth Ted. Thanks for the link.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=20062714&nid=10 ... d=queue-10


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: TERRIFIC Ted cops a FEEL in poaching case.*



richardjb said:


> horsesma said:
> 
> 
> > jahan said:
> ...


That was an earful! I think that many who badmouth are totally ignorant to the facts and simply open their mouth to remove all doubt about who the real idiot is speaking based on some preconceived notion of how he is loud therefore he must be evil. 
I am just glad to know that we can count on those who really fight against injustices, I am sure that PETA will be protesting the killing of the domestic hogs as required by MI law and Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the rest of the gangsters are on a red eye as I type to step in and cure the other injustices of which he spoke. 
For the record, YES I, double diamond Amway distributor, do still support Ted!

At the end of the day on this single charge that brought this all up, 1 year, $100K and a felony what a joke! We have dozens of guys truly poaching dozens of animals often on multiple charges over multiple years that don't get even a fraction of that...anyone who says this is not politically motivated....never mind that Tooele County beachfront property offer, his sucks! Come to the real beach of Carbon County where the beer flows like wine and the women flock like the Salmon of Capistrano!


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

I find that there are is a bit more here going on in this story than the press would lead us to believe. 

If Ted is taken at face value and did not know the law as he professes, then he should not have been charge for violating the federal lacy act, "because he did not knowingly transport a protected species across interstate or international boarders." This law needs more than preamia fascia to convict and the key word is knowingly. Furthermore the federal case was dependent on the State of Alaska game law statute to find fact before prosecution of the federal law could be applied, which it is not clear that the State of Alaska ever brought forth. In my humble opinion, this federal case was a political fishing exercise. Mr Nugent demonstrated his ignorance to such state statute when he aired the video across on his nationally syndicated television show. Mr Nugent obviously could have fought this and most likely could have won his case, However he chose to admit his ignorance and plead in abeyance to a lessor charge which in my opionion saved the tax payers a huge chunk of change. 

Some valid points have been bantered back and forth here about the law and who is worthy to represent whom in the public spotlight, but I contend that the law is nothing more than dog defecation when it is used as a means of punitive political control. It does not matter which camp you tend to support everyone loses our god given rights and privileges when government neutralizes free speech, enterprise, religion, press, property and will.

Hunting is not a right under the federal constitution and can be disposed of at will in most cases. This is one more example of police powers being used to remove means of protection from the hands of a free citizenry. 

Big


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

jahan said:


> http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=20945943&topic_id=24584158


Wow, that is interesting. I thought Glenn Beck died in a Monterey Mexico prison, 2010.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

bigbr said:


> I find that there are is a bit more here going on in this story than the press would lead us to believe.
> 
> If Ted is taken at face value and did not know the law as he professes, then he should not have been charge for violating the federal lacy act, "because he did not knowingly transport a protected species across interstate or international boarders." This law needs more than preamia fascia to convict and the key word is knowingly. Furthermore the federal case was dependent on the State of Alaska game law statute to find fact before prosecution of the federal law could be applied, which it is not clear that the State of Alaska ever brought forth. In my humble opinion, this federal case was a political fishing exercise.


Good points! Theodore has clearly upset many people with his outspoken M.O. who were looking for an opportunity as the one officer admitted to Ted's friend.


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