# Is it worth your hand?



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

This weekend, I had a chance to take my fifteen year old nephew to Cabela's to buy supplies for his new muzzle loader. As we stopped by the powder flasks he asked me if he should buy the clear plastic powder flask because it was cheaper? I responded; " is it worth your hand."

Many new reloaders and especially first time muzzle loaders, are not aware of the static electricity that builds up in plastic and to a lesser extent glass. Those of us who reload, have notices the phenomena of sticky powder as we allow ball and extruded powder to be dispensed through the plastic uniflows or as we fill brass using plastic neck funnels the static that builds up and the powder that sticks to the rim. This can be deadly when you talk about Black Powder and powder flasks. I never use anything but brass or metal to transport or measure and load black powder. To do so, is risking your life. As bp is moved or carried around in a flask or container, the movement of powder with the container or outside elements can build up a static charge that when dispensed can spark and cause an explosion.

Safety percussions: Never load from a large flask or container directly into the bore. A long with static charge, a hot ember could cause premature ignition. I like to always use brass as the base metal and in a small flask not large, that I use with a brass metal measuring tube. Only get the amount of your next load next to the muzzle and then touch the side of you brass measuring tube to the barrel of your *grounded *weapon, before you dispense it down the bore.

The plastic manufacture say that bp substitutes are safe to be dispensed in their products, however, I would not trust my life on it. Be safe and good hunting....Bigbr


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## prettytiedup (Dec 19, 2007)

> a hot amber could cause premature ignition


I used to date a girl named Amber, ocasionally had the same problem  :shock: 

Now a hot ember...........thats another story.


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## flyfitch (Sep 22, 2007)

You are right about static electricity building up in plastic containers but static eclectricity can only produce up to 10,000 volts. Black powder has been tested at 40,000 volts of electricity without igniting. I am not sure how many volts it does take but I think you are safe with plastic containers.
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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

flyfitch said:


> You are right about static electricity building up in plastic containers but static eclectricity can only produce up to 10,000 volts. Black powder has been tested at 40,000 volts of electricity without igniting. I am not sure how many volts it does take but I think you are safe with plastic containers.


http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_exp ... parks.html

Interesting article, however, it would be nice to know the control environment in which this experiment took place? Also interesting that CVA is marketing an new in line muzzle loader that uses and electronic igniter.... Weather and humidity play a big factor in burn rate testing.

"*Man's static jacket sparks alert *An Australian man built up so much static electricity in his clothes as he walked that he burned carpets, melted plastic and sparked a mass evacuation." 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 252692.stm

Static electricity has always been a concern to the government in their propellent labs and having worked for years at Hercules, I can tell you that in the propellent testing and mixing areas, the floors are and were lead lined and shoes were conductive to prevent any static build up or ignition source. It is my understanding that the last explosion at the mixing structure in Magna was due to the static charge created by a plastic button falling off a lab smock into and being moved around in a stainless steel mixing tub with propellents.

My uncle was a gunnery master in the navy and he tells me that the floors in the battleships gun decks are lined with a non conductive lead surface to avoid static charges as the guns are charged with burlap sacks of fifteen pound black powder charges. I can not attest to this for sure, because I have never been in or on the gun deck of a battle ship, but I have been in several gun powder plants.

Interesting is also the fact that many of our hunting clothes are wool, micro flees polyester and such, create huge amounts of static electricity. If you do not believe me, take your flees and wool off in the dark and see the sparks fly. I can also tell you that burn rates and ignition temperature have a great deal to do with a powders size and surface area. That is why a FFFF powder will ignite easier in the frisum of a flint lock than say FF black powder will.

To make such a statement that static electricity will not ignite black powder, when in fact it has, is a very bold and liable statement.

I will stick to my previous post and encourage the utmost care when dealing with gun powder, especially black powder.

Respectfully.....Bigbr


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

It seems to me that all the containers are plastic that the companies ship the powder in. If it was an issue, they wouldn't do that.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: Black Powder*



gunplay said:


> It seems to me that all the containers are plastic that the companies ship the powder in. If it was an issue, they wouldn't do that.


I think that it is important to keep in mind that Black Powder is the topic of most concern here. Many people on this thread have most likely switched to a black powder substitute like Pyrodex, which requires a hotter ignition point. I have never purchased real black powder in anything but metal tin containers. Not saying that they are not out there, but I have never bought bp in them.

All in all the consumer will choose what they will choose, but for me and mine, I will practice every reasonable safety precaution....Bigbr


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

I keep my _real_ black powder in a _real _steer horn and brass powderhorn. No static worries, seals out the moisture, and works as well as it did 150-200 years ago. I shoot GOEX FFF; comes in a tin flask per pound. Never had a problem with it. Real black is reliable stuff! Once you go black, you'll never go back (unless you're a sissy  ). Sorry Bigbr, I had to! 

Bigbr, did you draw a muzzy tag this year? I didn't draw squat, looks like it's a northern tag over the counter again this year for me.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

woollybugger said:


> Bigbr, did you draw a muzzy tag this year? I didn't draw squat, looks like it's a northern tag over the counter again this year for me.


Unfortunately, Yes! Southern Muzzy.....But I am about ready to turn it back in, due to the price of gas, and Kenney drew a goat tag and I will be videoing and spotting for him this year.

Come see me sometime, and we will go and burn some of that "real" 150 year old black powder.
Bigbr


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: Hot Amber*



prettytiedup said:


> > a hot amber could cause premature ignition
> 
> 
> I used to date a girl named Amber, ocasionally had the same problem...........thats another story.  :shock:


Hey, prettytiedup!

You have peeked my curiosity with this one, and I would like to hear, "The Rest of the Story."

Bigbr :roll: :lol: :evil:


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

My Bad, I missed the Black powder part.


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