# We Are Spoiled



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I hope waterfowlers in Utah know how good we have it here. Utah is a waterfowl mecca with a variety of ducks we can harvest. Not many, if any other place, can you shoot the variety of birds we have here. You can target divers one day, puddle ducks the next and if your really ambitious sea ducks on the GSL. 
We don't have blind draws for our public WMA's, we get a very generous 107 day season and a generous 7 duck daily bag limit. I talked to a few out of staters this season who traveled to hunt our marshes. They all thought it was beautiful scenery and excellent hunting.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Agreed. 

However, with the rapid population growth in the valley and the increased hunting pressure and the depleting lake water levels its only a matter of time before we start seeing the state step into "help increase opportunities" on our public lands.

At the rate we have seen waterfowling change from what it was 15 years ago, I'd say we are not too far off from some changes that may cause controversy..


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

goosefreak said:


> Agreed.
> 
> However, with the rapid population growth in the valley and the increased hunting pressure and the depleting lake water levels its only a matter of time before we start seeing the state step into "help increase opportunities" on our public lands.
> 
> At the rate we have seen waterfowling change from what it has 15 years ago, I'd say we are not too far off from some changes that may cause controversy..


Have you even been hunting ducks for 15 years?

What's changed? Besides the pintail limit and the amount of new mudbuddys these days (yours is one of them).

Change only happens big groups that promote trophy hunting wanna sink their claws into general, public land opportunities. You're right, change is coming. And it'll be spearheaded by our local $FW group, that thanks to lord noorda, couldn't wait to jump into bed with them after he told all of us he wouldn't ever do that and sell out our opportunity and public hunting.

I hope it's not headed the direction that many other states found themselves in, but you're probably right. And it's really too bad. We were sold out for some back alley favors by a guy who hunts clubs and private property.


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## Pipeliner (Dec 2, 2018)

I agree! After only shooting mallards on the Columbia River I’m amazed at the different birds here! My timing is such that both my dog and I will be too old to continue. About the same time they screw up duck hunting in this state. However, I hope I’m wrong as I see so many young people hunting I hope they get to enjoy it for years to come!


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## prumpf (Apr 8, 2016)

100% agree. We all are blessed just because we have found something in life we are so passionate about and makes us happy. On top of that we get to do it in great scenery, for 1/3 of the year and have plenty of birds. 

Changes might come, they always have and always will. It’s what we make of it.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

MooseMeat said:


> Have you even been hunting ducks for 15 years?
> 
> What's changed? Besides the pintail limit and the amount of new mudbuddys these days (yours is one of them).
> 
> ...


ah yeah. I just finished my 21st year of waterfowling.

whats changed?? bird numbers!

Thanks to a shrinking GSL. The bird numbers are no where near what they were 15+ years ago.

hunting pressure has changed too. 15 years ago, if you went to FB anytime after mid November you'd be lucky to see 4 other vehicles in the entire WMA on any given day..

With the increasing popularity of Duck hunting in Utah, its only a matter of time before the right, wrong people influence the way the state manages the WMA's

like you say SFW should be enough to scare anybody.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

goosefreak said:


> ah yeah. I just finished my 21st year of waterfowling.
> 
> whats changed?? bird numbers!
> 
> ...


There is just as many birds now, or more, than there ever has been. The retention over longer periods of time during the season might be shorter, but the number of birds coming through every year is not lower.

And I can tell you from many personal experiences that maybe 4 vehicles on the entire WMA at any given time in November is BS. Farmington has always been popular. And it's always been hammered, all season long. I've been going out there since 96, and even then in November, the parking lots were packed, especially on the weekends. Back then even the airboat launch had 4 trucks every Saturday parked at it.

There might be more hunters that go out more during the season, but you can still get away from the pressure. I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there's more places in the state to hunt than just FB. Most of guys hunting now don't know that, but there's plenty other options if you are tired of sharing that public resource with other hunters.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

whats changed?? bird numbers!

I agree 100 percent!!! I've been chasing waterfowl for 43 years and the numbers are down from 1978 when I began. I don't know if its actual numbers that are down, or there isn't as many where I hunted. 

Habitat loss is a reason why I don't see the ducks I did. Homes have been planted in favor of corn. The ditch's have been piped and they don't overflow into the fields anymore.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm jumping in on this one although I live in Wyoming. 

I've been hunting the GSL marsh off n on for nearly 40 years. My observation is that bird numbers have gone up and down but the number of hunters has increased dramatically. 

The number of Utah waterfowlers hunting in the southwest Wyoming part of Utah has increased exponentially and I often joke " I prefer to hunt ducks in Utah than in Wyoming, there's fewer Utahns there".................ha, just a joke


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

MooseMeat said:


> There is just as many birds now, or more, than there ever has been. The retention over longer periods of time during the season might be shorter, but the number of birds coming through every year is not lower.
> 
> And I can tell you from many personal experiences that maybe 4 vehicles on the entire WMA at any given time in November is BS. Farmington has always been popular. And it's always been hammered, all season long. I've been going out there since 96, and even then in November, the parking lots were packed, especially on the weekends. Back then even the airboat launch had 4 trucks every Saturday parked at it.
> 
> There might be more hunters that go out more during the season, but you can still get away from the pressure. I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there's more places in the state to hunt than just FB. Most of guys hunting now don't know that, but there's plenty other options if you are tired of sharing that public resource with other hunters.


defiantly not the birds there use to be, I'll get some DNR numbers if I can.

Yes, Farmington has always been popular but, no where near where it is now.

4-6 guys in the parking lot may seem like a lot of people to a 6 year old in 1996.

I hunted FB very little this season.

I'm not trying to convince you that its changed over the last 15 years, nor do you have to believe it but, if you cant see the change from then to now then maybe you haven't been paying attention. Not Arguing but, it is ridiculously obvious. Heck, even the BRBR held more birds back then.. Look at it now


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## fatbikehunter (Nov 16, 2019)

We are so lucky! I'd hunt somewhere else before I would ever sign up for pre-determined blind on public property. I'm able to find out of the way spots and get away from the crowds and maybe the bird numbers are down but my skill level is up so I'm generally more successful/efficient in my hunts. Better gear, more knowledge = more success. I had my best year ever waterfowl and upland hunting here in Utah. It is sad to see habitat loss. I'm VERY concerned about how the new prison and inland port is going to negatively impact waterfowl. Built smack dab in the middle of the surrounding marsh land and uplands of the GSL! Disturbing!


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

goosefreak said:


> defiantly not the birds there use to be, I'll get some DNR numbers if I can.
> 
> Yes, Farmington has always been popular but, no where near where it is now.
> 
> ...


I have tailgate photos of the late 90s and early 2000s in the center dike, turpin and airboat parking lots, mid November, that have more than 6 trucks parked in them. I'll post a few later when I have time to dig through my photo books.

As far as BRBR goes, it's run by the feds. Nothing good ever comes from something managed by the federal government. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why there's no birds there any more, when have the refuge is dry until the week before the hunt starts. Birds need food to stay in an area. When the whole thing is dry during growing season, except for a few units closed to hunting, it's no surprise they don't want to be out where the guys are able to hunt.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Estimated 3-4 million migrating waterfowl use the GSL annually. 
https://www.ducks.org/utah/Utah-Conservation-Projects/Waterfowl-Facts-The-Great-Salt-Lake

I remember the 1997 botulism outbreak that killed 500k birds. 
https://wildlife.utah.gov/index.php/avian-botulism.html


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

MooseMeat said:


> I have tailgate photos of the late 90s and early 2000s in the center dike, turpin and airboat parking lots, mid November, that have more than 6 trucks parked in them. I'll post a few later when I have time to dig through my photo books.
> 
> As far as BRBR goes, it's run by the feds. Nothing good ever comes from something managed by the federal government. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why there's no birds there any more, when have the refuge is dry until the week before the hunt starts. Birds need food to stay in an area. When the whole thing is dry during growing season, except for a few units closed to hunting, it's no surprise they don't want to be out where the guys are able to hunt.


Take it with a grain of salt.

I'm sure there have been busy days but, every time I went out " Back in the days" we would show up to the Turpin parking lot and there would be maybe 4-5 trucks. We'd ride our bikes out for an evening hunt and every time we came back in we were the last ones in the parking lot. That wasn't a once in a while thing. It was like that every time we hunted. Which was every weekend excluding times we were elsewhere. It was mostly like that starting about thanksgiving week- ish

Its like anything else but, now the amount of people out there from the first day to the last day has been unreal. Its been noticeable for the last 5 years but, much more so this year.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> Estimated 3-4 million migrating waterfowl use the GSL annually.
> https://www.ducks.org/utah/Utah-Conservation-Projects/Waterfowl-Facts-The-Great-Salt-Lake
> 
> I remember the 1997 botulism outbreak that killed 500k birds.
> https://wildlife.utah.gov/index.php/avian-botulism.html


Back in the early 2000's Rich told us it was 5-7 million but, that was back when the lake was full...


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

goosefreak said:


> Back in the early 2000's Rich told us it was 5-7 million but, that was back when the lake was full...


I remember reading 7 million at one time. I would have to dig deeper to find out if that was accurate.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

Fowlmouth said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Back in the early 2000's Rich told us it was 5-7 million but, that was back when the lake was full...
> ...


Send some down here to southern Utah please. &#128513;&#128513;


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Waterfowlers, don't give up hope, there are lots of ways to Make Waterfowling Great Again. To start with, how about setting up about 40 different seasons based on...oh, I don't know...maybe weapon type, or specie type. Gee, how about setting up some LE hunts... 'bout time we have some areas with "quality birds" to hunt. Then maybe we could throw in a few variations like a "spot and stock" hunt, followed up with a "ok to bait them" hunt, early hunts, late hunts, greenheads only hunts, hens only, and on and on...just let your imagination run free. There are so many swell ways to improve waterfowling...here's a really great idea, how about giving away a bunch of special tags to our wonderful "conservation" groups so they can make a little "free" money...brilliant! It just seems so dumb to me that you waterfowls should have to put up with such lack of regulation when we all can see for ourselves the success brought about by these schemes in big game hunts. A few simple new regs could add endless pages to the Guide Books, that in itself could bring hours of pleasure to waterfowling.
So let's all get on the band wagon now so our kids can get with the business of buildings point counts toward a future hunt. In these dark times, who wouldn't want a few more days of waiting for the that credit card hit to brighten up our lives a little.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

How about a Governor's Pintail Tag. For a fee of coarse. A trophy hunt, you could shoot 7 Pintails one day only.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Utah is definitely a money oriented state “I’m available Jones” rather than conservation oriented state.
They’d have zebra hunts if they could convince hunters to pay for it.

As far as birds go those numbers being talked about are general estimates. With warm weather and no snow I seriously don’t think those estimates are even close to being accurate, especially the past 10 years.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Yeah, numbers are going to go up and down seasonally, BUT if you look at it over the long haul, hopefully the trend or average is up. Alot of our duck species are just that nationally and above their long-term averages, but whether that is a local reality, I don't know.

I do remember back in the mid-late 80s back in Oklahoma that duck numbers were in the tank due to drought. We were smack dab in the middle of a major Central Flyway migration corridor and our duck numbers went to shiz for a few years. 6 bird limit dropped to 3, I believe pintails and Cans were no-goes, and shortened season dates in the high 60s of days. It was abysmal, and I'm certain the same things happen here w/r/t the GSL ecosystem.

We shot lots of different species in OK too, but there is definitely more variety here...especially diver-wise. Then again, we didn't hunt much big water, so that's just my own personal observation and probably inaccurate. I was intrigued by the article posted by FM on the various duck species and their numbers, both resident and migratory. After looking at the numbers and seeing that 600K GWT migrate through, it was no surprise that they made up 45% of my birds this year.

I'm a fan of Jerry's one hunt, 7 pins proposal, except let's just do the drawing and keep it free! Having a strap of 7 late-season pins would be pretty dang impressive!!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Figures don’t lie but unfortunately liars sometimes do a lot of the figuring. 
If numbers are up since 2000 I’d really have issues with whom ever conducted the data.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

1BandMan said:


> Figures don't lie but unfortunately liars sometimes do a lot of the figuring.
> If numbers are up since 2000 I'd really have issues with whom ever conducted the data.


It might not reflect our numbers locally but every spring the US and Canadian fish and wildlife services do a joint spring breeding ground count in the prairie pothole region of the US and Canada. It's a great way to keep track of overall duck numbers as something like 80% of waterfowl in North America are hatched in that region, they have been doing the counts since the 60s. The years with the highest survey counts have all been after 1995, and if I remember right 2017 had the highest number of ducks counted ever.


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## mtgreenheads (Nov 29, 2020)

Yes. We are very blessed with the amount of public land waterfowl hunting here. Let's hope winter arrives this week as forecast to provide this year's recreation.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Those surveys on the boarder have been promising for the past several years. Valid? I certainly hope so.
I question how many make it into the Salt Lake valley and further south.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

1BandMan said:


> .
> I question how many make it into the Salt Lake valley and further south.


A lot more than last year.


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