# 2022 Goose limiting excercise



## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Although I did participate in this limiting exercise (due to peer pressure from my son), I still feel it was the wrong direction for Utah to go.
At least I admit I am a hypocrite.
No way can our limited resource continue to put out decent hunts by not only killing too many Geese, I believe our hunt-able areas will not be able to handle the pressure.
Plus, who needs five Geese a day?
Look at the work I just created for myself by being greedy…
I wish the DWR would have taken and ran with my comments:
Two birds/day and no hunting Geese after 1 pm.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I remember back when it was 8 geese a season and you had a tag for each goose. I also don't have a problem with the limits that are there now.

They way that we now have city geese something needs to be done to limit their numbers. Once they learn how good it is inside of city limits they don't leave. The cities and towns need to push them out to areas that can be hunted.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Nice band and hulls. Looks like selective shots there.

Did you call the band number yet? Mine was a bird banded from the golf course a couple miles away from Farmington. Local traffic.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

My boy did report it.
Banded in Plain City in ‘19.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Congrats on the shoot!!


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Honestly, how many guys are capable of killing goose limits more than a couple times a year, if that? The answer is: very few. Those guys won’t hurt the resource. I’d imagine the majority of duck hunters in utah go the entire season and never kill a single goose. I think it was pointless to raise the limit, but if someone does get the opportunity to kill a few more, that’s great for them. It is what it is. No one will notice any difference


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

MooseMeat said:


> Honestly, how many guys are capable of killing goose limits more than a couple times a year, if that? The answer is: very few. Those guys won’t hurt the resource. I’d imagine the majority of duck hunters in utah go the entire season and never kill a single goose. I think it was pointless to raise the limit, but if someone does get the opportunity to kill a few more, that’s great for them. It is what it is. No one will notice any difference


I disagree, even marginally decent Goose areas that could handle some pressure will see a difference as guys stay in the field longer/bust more flocks to try to fill increased limit.
No difference from a good Elk property that could handle one bull/hunter being harvested then getting ‘limit’ increased to two bulls/hunter:
The good Elk property ends up in the crapper awfully fast.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MrShane said:


> I disagree, even marginally decent Goose areas that could handle some pressure will see a difference as guys stay in the field longer/bust more flocks to try to fill increased limit.
> No difference from a good Elk property that could handle one bull/hunter being harvested then getting ‘limit’ increased to two bulls/hunter:
> The good Elk property ends up in the crapper awfully fast.


You can’t compare elk and geese against each other. Geese are migratory. Elk are not. On the right piece of property, there’s a chance those bulls might never leave and be available to a public hunter, ever. Sure we have resident birds, but the odds of them staying on the same private piece of land their entire lives is slim to none. It has been determined that the population can sustain the potential increase of harvest. And in many cases regarding residential birds, are trying to knock numbers down. So for the few guys who can capitalize on the harvest increase, they are allowing them that opportunity. From a waterfowl enthusiast point of view, Raising limits is a good thing. It’s a sign things are trending in the right direction. It’s the reductions that we really need to watch and be concerned about.

If you do want to compare elk to geese, compare it to the unlimited quota archery OTC elk tags to the goose bag limit increase. The likelihood of success amongst all participating hunters is so small, they can provide the opportunity to everyone who wants to participate, without negatively impacting the resource. 

If you want a quality goose hunt in utah where the chances of actually shooting limits is high, go lease or lock up some good ground. That way you can control what happens on that piece of property. But to the guy who happens to get lucky and can knock down an entire limit of geese at Farmington on purpose, more power to ya!


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

MooseMeat said:


> You can’t compare elk and geese against each other. Geese are migratory. Elk are not. On the right piece of property, there’s a chance those bulls might never leave and be available to a public hunter, ever. Sure we have resident birds, but the odds of them staying on the same private piece of land their entire lives is slim to none. It has been determined that the population can sustain the potential increase of harvest. And in many cases regarding residential birds, are trying to knock numbers down. So for the few guys who can capitalize on the harvest increase, they are allowing them that opportunity. From a waterfowl enthusiast point of view, Raising limits is a good thing. It’s a sign things are trending in the right direction. It’s the reductions that we really need to watch and be concerned about.
> 
> If you do want to compare elk to geese, compare it to the unlimited quota archery OTC elk tags to the goose bag limit increase. The likelihood of success amongst all participating hunters is so small, they can provide the opportunity to everyone who wants to participate, without negatively impacting the resource.
> 
> If you want a quality goose hunt in utah where the chances of actually shooting limits is high, go lease or lock up some good ground. That way you can control what happens on that piece of property. But to the guy who happens to get lucky and can knock down an entire limit of geese at Farmington on purpose, more power to ya!


Just give it time, OTC archery Elk tags will be gone.
Just like the OTC Deer tags of old.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MrShane said:


> Just give it time, OTC archery Elk tags will be gone.
> Just like the OTC Deer tags of old.


That could be said for any hunt we have now. Just give it time. Hunting will be nothing more than a distant memory at some point.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

MrShane said:


> Just give it time, OTC archery Elk tags will be gone.
> Just like the OTC Deer tags of old.


It's just supply and demand. If the demand is greater than the supply they have to do something. You mentioned the old general deer season tag, the herds just will not support 300,000 tags being sold every year so they dropped it down to the 90,000 or so that they now sell but there is still a large amount of hunters who want them so it is now a draw. 

Not enough supply for the demand.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Hunting will always be here, it will just get exponentially more and more expensive.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Three syllables. Pas-tra-mi. There, now it's a great exercise.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

APD said:


> Nice band and hulls. Looks like selective shots there.
> 
> Did you call the band number yet? Mine was a bird banded from the golf course a couple miles away from Farmington. Local traffic.


In my old age I have become more and more selective.
But you can also see in my old age it took me more than one shot on two of those birds….


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## Cootshootjones (Oct 26, 2021)

I think the limits are fair but I also have yet to fill a limit of geese when it was 4 so dont know if that means much. I spend a fair amount of time trying to get on them and if im lucky will kill a handful between my partners in a day and I so an increased limit doesn't really matter much. I feel like i represent the average public land waterfowl guy and killing 5 geese in a day would be far better then my average. so if the 1% of guys who actually get to kill them kill one more per day it really not a huge number seeing as most the birds dont even make past the snake river anyways.

*By the way the two I killed opener got great exercise in a crock pot for 7 hours before relaxing in a pan of enchiladas *


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## Cootshootjones (Oct 26, 2021)

MrShane said:


> I wish the DWR would have taken and ran with my comments:
> Two birds/day and no hunting Geese after 1 pm.


Im curious as to why you suggested no goose hunting after 1 pm. It is an interesting idea but it would essentially kill my hunting strategy as most my goose hunts happen mid morning and afternoon in loafing areas between the roost and feed (*never busting the roost) *and would limit most the public land guys who dont have field access. Do you feel that hunting them that way is hurting the hunting or is unfair to the geese?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Cootshootjones said:


> Im curious as to why you suggested no goose hunting after 1 pm. It is an interesting idea but it would essentially kill my hunting strategy as most my goose hunts happen mid morning and afternoon in loafing areas between the roost and feed (*never busting the roost) *and would limit most the public land guys who dont have field access. Do you feel that hunting them that way is hurting the hunting or is unfair to the geese?


To give them a rest in an effort to keep them in the areas for a longer period of time. Many guys will locate a roost, go in mid day and set up and shoot them as they trickle back in the afternoons. I’ve done it. It’s pretty effective, especially on private property.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Cootshootjones said:


> Im curious as to why you suggested no goose hunting after 1 pm. It is an interesting idea but it would essentially kill my hunting strategy as most my goose hunts happen mid morning and afternoon in loafing areas between the roost and feed (*never busting the roost) *and would limit most the public land guys who dont have field access. Do you feel that hunting them that way is hurting the hunting or is unfair to the geese?


Simply to hold birds around longer in the season.
That is why I also support only a two bird limit.
I would much rather go through the season quickly shooting two bird limits, immediately throwing my gear in the boat and getting out of there, and seeing birds mill around the rest of the day in peace with high hopes of doing it again next trip.
Instead, we hunt their guts out all day long, hoping to ‘load up’ with five birds each.
I think overall this new limit will actually lower our opportunities of good shoots if the birds leave us early due to extra pressure on them.
I would never want to change your method of shooting Canadas, just brainstorming here with fellow Goose hunters wondering if there are minor changes we could make to raise our success levels.
The real problem in all of this is the close-mindedness of government officials not allowing hunting in city boundaries that could very easily be hunted safely.
A five bird limit does nothing to reduce the urban population if you can’t hunt them in their urban locations.
We need to haze the Geese back to the marshes but they won’t stay there long if they are shot at all day, hence, closing shooting at 1pm’ish.
I have been preaching that Cities could easily approve a properly bonded hunter to hunt inside City limits and be 100% responsible for any damage.
Bond the hunter for 10k, 20k, I don’t care.
But the Geese need to be kicked out of City boundaries.
And NOTHING is as effective as hunting them.
P.S. Thank you for your comments.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

MooseMeat said:


> To give them a rest in an effort to keep them in the areas for a longer period of time. Many guys will locate a roost, go in mid day and set up and shoot them as they trickle back in the afternoons. I’ve done it. It’s pretty effective, especially on private property.


MM is correct.
SUPER effective!
But, after one shoot that flock will most likely head to the City for the remainder of the season.


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## Cootshootjones (Oct 26, 2021)

I agree totally with staying off the roosts no question there that shooting the roost reduces everyone’s hunting success. But eliminating mid afternoon hunts will end most of my success entirely as I am targeting birds coming off the feed looking for grit and water or traffic hunting on the way to and from feeds which I find to be very true in the late season sometimes they don’t even fly till 1. I personally put the hurt on some honkers in WY early season (first week of sept) and would like to see a similar model tried here. Or even a better extension into the post season hunt ( catch them looking for nesting spot).


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Cootshootjones said:


> I agree totally with staying off the roosts no question there that shooting the roost reduces everyone’s hunting success. But eliminating mid afternoon hunts will end most of my success entirely as I am targeting birds coming off the feed looking for grit and water or traffic hunting on the way to and from feeds which I find to be very true in the late season sometimes they don’t even fly till 1. I personally put the hurt on some honkers in WY early season (first week of sept) and would like to see a similar model tried here. Or even a better extension into the post season hunt ( catch them looking for nesting spot).


I used to hunt Afton early season, awesome trips!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

The local birds which is all we really have now due to the mild winters will take a beating which is what the DWR, golf courses, and parks want, decimating the population over the coming years.
It's not real hard to see the direction, logic and outcome.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

1BandMan said:


> The local birds which is all we really have now due to the mild winters…


That’s not even close to an accurate statement


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

1BandMan said:


> The local birds which is all we really have now due to the mild winters will take a beating which is what the DWR, golf courses, and parks want, decimating the population over the coming years.
> It's not real hard to see the direction, logic and outcome.


A few extra urban birds will get killed the first few days of the hunt is all, after the initial volley of gunshots they will go to safe havens inside city limits.
They will be untouchable there for months.
Maybe, and it is only a tiny maybe, a few more will get killed with the extension at the end of the season.
To kill the birds the DWR/parks/golf courses want gone, the powers that be better stop being so close-minded and start letting some hunting take place inside city limits.
“The safe shooting zone of 600 feet is there for a reason Mayor”.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Life hack:

archery equipment isn’t considered a dangerous weapon in city limits if it’s set up for bowfishing and has a line attached to the arrow and bow… it’s fishing equipment.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> That’s not even close to an accurate statement


What makes you believe or know otherwise. 
Most of our fairly extensive banding program with geese show most are harvested right here in Utah, along with Idaho, Wyoming, some in Montana and a few in California, however the numbers in California are becoming fewer and fewer. 
Yes, even Utah banded birds are being harvested in states NORTH of us. 
Geese move south due to their food sources being covered by snow and their water sources to roost and drink being frozen. They just don't automatically fly to Mexico in November or December.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

MrShane said:


> A few extra urban birds will get killed the first few days of the hunt is all, after the initial volley of gunshots they will go to safe havens inside city limits.
> They will be untouchable there for months.
> Maybe, and it is only a tiny maybe, a few more will get killed with the extension at the end of the season.
> To kill the birds the DWR/parks/golf courses want gone, the powers that be better stop being so close-minded and start letting some hunting take place inside city limits.
> “The safe shooting zone of 600 feet is there for a reason Mayor”.


Geese definitely adapt well and their normal pattern of flying into the city to avoid all the hunting pressure will indeed continue.....however many will be euthanized as these policy's to do so by the DWR, permit them to be. 100's are euthanized every year now by or approved by our DNR.
The other metro birds that get pushed around outside of city limits will continued to be harvested in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and such as well as MANY, MANY more in other parts of the state due to the 5 bird limit.
As I mentioned before, and the issue at hand, there will be fewer and fewer birds as time marches on with the 5 bird limit in place which is what the DWR, golf course, and parks want to happen. Problem solved?


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

1BandMan said:


> What makes you believe or know otherwise.
> Most of our fairly extensive banding program with geese show most are harvested right here in Utah, along with Idaho, Wyoming, some in Montana and a few in California, however the numbers in California are becoming fewer and fewer.
> Yes, even Utah banded birds are being harvested in states NORTH of us.
> Geese move south due to their food sources being covered by snow and their water sources to roost and drink being frozen. They just don't automatically fly to Mexico in November or December.


Don't forget band recoveries from Alberta and Saskatchewan. Band report from states east of us also. 

The mystery of molt migrations has always intrigued me.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I'd be interested in the reports of those from _Alberta and Saskatchewan in Utah over the past 10-15 years, especially the past 10.

Since you brought it up, do you have those numbers?_


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

_I've seen and heard more and more of the east/west migration rather than north/south with ducks.
With Canada Geese many simply do not migrate much if at all any more. The trend appears to be increasing.
Why should they migrate if the weather is as nice in Canada as it is in Utah and sometimes better?_

I know geese crap as much or more than a dog their size and can also cause quite a bit of damage. I just hate the DWR snuggling up with financially influenced folks at the expense of a limited resource.
You young folks are likely to see those goose tags again.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

1BandMan said:


> Geese definitely adapt well and their normal pattern of flying into the city to avoid all the hunting pressure will indeed continue.....however many will be euthanized as these policy's to do so by the DWR, permit them to be. 100's are euthanized every year now by or approved by our DNR.
> The other metro birds that get pushed around outside of city limits will continued to be harvested in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and such as well as MANY, MANY more in other parts of the state due to the 5 bird limit.
> As I mentioned before, and the issue at hand, there will be fewer and fewer birds as time marches on with the 5 bird limit in place which is what the DWR, golf course, and parks want to happen. Problem solved?


I am seeing this now, less birds up northern refuges. Yes the birds go north I shot a female goose from Scipio Utah in Idaho, Cash valley, and quite a few from Deseret. I shot one of the Yellow band golf course birds in Idaho.
What some do not realize is that not all geese inhabit the cities. These geese will be thinned down in population. Instead of two birds out of one flight three can be shot, and so on to get your five bird limit. When you only shoot two birds it educates the other birds, and if that extra bird is shot, and is no longer around.
All they care is about city birds, and sell licenses to duck hunters.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

1BandMan said:


> Geese definitely adapt well and their normal pattern of flying into the city to avoid all the hunting pressure will indeed continue.....however many will be euthanized as these policy's to do so by the DWR, permit them to be. 100's are euthanized every year now by or approved by our DNR.
> The other metro birds that get pushed around outside of city limits will continued to be harvested in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and such as well as MANY, MANY more in other parts of the state due to the 5 bird limit.
> As I mentioned before, and the issue at hand, there will be fewer and fewer birds as time marches on with the 5 bird limit in place which is what the DWR, golf course, and parks want to happen. Problem solved?


No, problem not solved.
I do not want “fewer and fewer birds as time marches on”.
Utah’s Goose hunting scene for the average waterfowler is marginal at best, we just don’t have the water and ag property to be an awesome Goose hunting State.
For arguments sake, let’s say I will set up for Geese ten times this year.
And, let’s say the resource will support me killing 20 Canadas.
All I’m saying is that I would rather kill two birds each of my ten trips than to kill five birds each of four trips and get skunked the other six.
My belief is that if the limit was lowered to two birds daily and no hunting after 1 pm, it just may keep enough birds around long enough to meet my goal of scenario #1.
By staying in the field long enough to kill a limit beyond 2 birds daily, I feel we will over-pressure the resource to the point that even killing one Canada/daily in a consistent manner will be a very tough accomplishment.
My opinion only.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

1BandMan said:


> I'd be interested in the reports of those from _Alberta and Saskatchewan in Utah over the past 10-15 years, especially the past 10.
> 
> Since you brought it up, do you have those numbers?_


I don't have that info anymore. But they get band reports every year from Alberta and Saskatchewan. A friend of mine shot a local banded honker south of Kitscotty years ago in September.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

1BandMan said:


> What makes you believe or know otherwise.


Personal observation and experience. Unlike you, I actually get out more than once a year. Geese, like ducks, will move south annually just because something inside of them tells them to do so, or in simpler terms, instincts tells them to. Many thousands of migratory geese pass through utah annually, regardless if food or open water is widely available or not. I have seen countless times where the “resident goose” numbers will multiply by 10x over night, without any weather or other factors to push them through. They will hang out for a few days and be gone. Swans are a great example. We haven’t had a freeze hard enough for many years to push them out in large numbers… yet they move right on through, just because it’s what their instincts tell them to do. Why do teal start their migration through utah in august and September when water and feed is at its prime?

anywhere you go, you’ll have both resident geese and ducks that will stay put in an area and never even leave the state. But to say we don’t get hardly migrating geese anymore because of a few factors? Hahaha… ok. 

going strictly off band data reporting is a laughable way to come to any solid conclusions. The birds they band and birds born and raised in utah. They don’t leave. They don’t have to leave. Golf course ponds stay open year round. Also, they haven’t banded a fraction of the birds for the last 3 years that they normally do. You can’t come to any hard conclusions going off recent band reports.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MrShane said:


> No, problem not solved.
> I do not want “fewer and fewer birds as time marches on”.
> Utah’s Goose hunting scene for the average waterfowler is marginal at best, we just don’t have the water and ag property to be an awesome Goose hunting State.
> For arguments sake, let’s say I will set up for Geese ten times this year.
> ...


Ok, so only shoot 2 geese in the fields and areas you’re hunting and be done. Nothing says you need to shoot your 5. I won’t dispute that utah isn’t a goose state. It never has been and never will be. But I’ll stand by my statement, 99% of your waterfowl hunters in utah don’t kill 5 geese total the entire season. Raising limits won’t benefit hardly anyone and won’t impact birds much, if at all. 

it’s always amazed me that people will call for more restrictions and regulations from not only the local enforcement, but the feds too. Closing hours at 1 pm is a terrible idea. Again, the population can sustain the harvest. They need more resident birds killed. You can do your part and only shoot 2 per day. Pick up your spread at 1 and go home. If you’re the only one hunting those fields, no one else will bother them


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

JerryH said:


> I don't have that info anymore. But they get band reports every year from Alberta and Saskatchewan. A friend of mine shot a local banded honker south of Kitscotty years ago in September.


I've looked and compared quite a few up until 2017. The last 5 years would be interesting for sure. 
I've not seen or heard of too many very far north for quite a while.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> Personal observation and experience. Unlike you, I actually get out more than once a year. Geese, like ducks, will move south annually just because something inside of them tells them to do so, or in simpler terms, instincts tells them to. Many thousands of migratory geese pass through utah annually, regardless if food or open water is widely available or not. I have seen countless times where the “resident goose” numbers will multiply by 10x over night, without any weather or other factors to push them through. They will hang out for a few days and be gone. Swans are a great example. We haven’t had a freeze hard enough for many years to push them out in large numbers… yet they move right on through, just because it’s what their instincts tell them to do. Why do teal start their migration through utah in august and September when water and feed is at its prime?
> 
> anywhere you go, you’ll have both resident geese and ducks that will stay put in an area and never even leave the state. But to say we don’t get hardly migrating geese anymore because of a few factors? Hahaha… ok.
> 
> going strictly off band data reporting is a laughable way to come to any solid conclusions. The birds they band and birds born and raised in utah. They don’t leave. They don’t have to leave. Golf course ponds stay open year round. Also, they haven’t banded a fraction of the birds for the last 3 years that they normally do. You can’t come to any hard conclusions going off recent band reports.


"Short stopping" is a term now frequently used by biologists especially for the past 10-15 years in regard to goose migration or lack thereof. 
It's real and obviously just not some anomaly somebody just came up with. 
Band reporting is possibly another way to back this trend up. What is out there to 2017 appears to validate this as well. 

Just for the giggles question to you. Why wouldn't that same "instinct" of up and flying to Mexico in November with Utah geese still be valid if all waterfowl do it?

*Bottom line*. With the DNR/DWR wiping out complete flocks of geese on golf courses and parks and upping the limit to 5 on the local population, you and other folks don't see the long-term outcome? 
The reason that the DWR upped the limit certainly isn't that the birds can sustain those harvest numbers for very long. They simply want rid of them or decimate them down to pitiful numbers. "Migrating" geese won't fill in the values.

The DWR doesn't care about biology, resources or the bigger picture. It's about money. They would sell 100,000 zebra or giraffe tags to you folks if you would by them.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> Personal observation and experience. Unlike you, I actually get out more than once a year. Geese, like ducks, will move south annually just because something inside of them tells them to do so, or in simpler terms, instincts tells them to. Many thousands of migratory geese pass through utah annually, regardless if food or open water is widely available or not. I have seen countless times where the “resident goose” numbers will multiply by 10x over night, without any weather or other factors to push them through. They will hang out for a few days and be gone. Swans are a great example. We haven’t had a freeze hard enough for many years to push them out in large numbers… yet they move right on through, just because it’s what their instincts tell them to do. Why do teal start their migration through utah in august and September when water and feed is at its prime?
> 
> anywhere you go, you’ll have both resident geese and ducks that will stay put in an area and never even leave the state. But to say we don’t get hardly migrating geese anymore because of a few factors? Hahaha… ok.
> 
> going strictly off band data reporting is a laughable way to come to any solid conclusions. The birds they band and birds born and raised in utah. They don’t leave. They don’t have to leave. Golf course ponds stay open year round. Also, they haven’t banded a fraction of the birds for the last 3 years that they normally do. You can’t come to any hard conclusions going off recent band reports.


We’re are your observations if I may ask? Were I hunt the population is down and don’t have migration as in years past in the areas I hunt. In 2018 I shot a Cash Valley bird and a Deseret bird from Utah, and shot another Scipio bird up north last year. The birds out of the city have to go somewhere…..


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Scipio & the Deseret birds are kind of unquie. They are non breeding sub adults that nobody knows where they come from. After the molt they leave to who knows where. With band recoveries they know where they ended up. But they don't know where they've been or where they're from.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

There are very few Utah hunters that have the ability to consistently kill geese. The hunters that do target geese and consistently kill are doing it on private property. They are a small percentage of hunters compared to the average Joe public land hunter. Neither group is putting a dent in population numbers from urban or migrator geese. Like mentioned before, most guys don’t shoot 5 geese all season. 1 more bird added to the limit is certainly not the end of the world for goose populations.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

1BandMan said:


> The DWR doesn't care about biology, resources or the bigger picture. It's about money. They would sell 100,000 zebra or giraffe tags to you folks if you would by them.


Hahaha how is the DWR getting any more money by upping the number of the daily limit on geese from 4 to 5? They aren’t selling tags for the dam things 🤣 another fact you just made up?

if you are so concerned about populations, maybe you should biitch about the late season dates instead. More damage is done in that month to bird numbers than the rest of the season.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

GoosesNightMare said:


> We’re are your observations if I may ask? Were I hunt the population is down and don’t have migration as in years past in the areas I hunt. In 2018 I shot a Cash Valley bird and a Deseret bird from Utah, and shot another Scipio bird up north last year. The birds out of the city have to go somewhere…..


You can ask all you want, I’ll just lie to you.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

JerryH said:


> Scipio & the Deseret birds are kind of unquie. They are non breeding sub adults that nobody knows where they come from. After the molt they leave to who knows where. With band recoveries they know where they ended up. But they don't know where they've been or where they're from.


The two I have are older females more than 2 years old The one I got last year was hatched in 2016 or earlier.
So what you are saying is they don’t nest around Scipio Lake?


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

MooseMeat said:


> Ok, so only shoot 2 geese in the fields and areas you’re hunting and be done. Nothing says you need to shoot your 5. I won’t dispute that utah isn’t a goose state. It never has been and never will be. But I’ll stand by my statement, 99% of your waterfowl hunters in utah don’t kill 5 geese total the entire season. Raising limits won’t benefit hardly anyone and won’t impact birds much, if at all.
> 
> it’s always amazed me that people will call for more restrictions and regulations from not only the local enforcement, but the feds too. Closing hours at 1 pm is a terrible idea. Again, the population can sustain the harvest. They need more resident birds killed. You can do your part and only shoot 2 per day. Pick up your spread at 1 and go home. If you’re the only one hunting those fields, no one else will bother them


Wow!
Regulations are what saved the sport of Waterfowling for us to enjoy today.
Sounds like you would like to go back to shooting ducks with a Punt gun over piles of corn under the moonlight….


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> Hahaha how is the DWR getting any more money by upping the number of the daily limit on geese from 4 to 5? They aren’t selling tags for the dam things 🤣 another fact you just made up?
> 
> if you are so concerned about populations, maybe you should biitch about the late season dates instead. More damage is done in that month to bird numbers than the rest of the season.


I did with Rich Hansen this year about the late season dates, and his response “was to give hunters a opportunity.”
That response tells a lot about management practices.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> You can ask all you want, I’ll just lie to you.


Utah lake, and Farmington bay.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't know how many migrators we really see each year. Who in the last 5 years has shot a banded goose in Northern Utah that was banded in another state or country? goosefreak and I have 40 bands between us, and every single one of them are Utah birds. Heck, I shot one in 2016 at Farmington Bay that was banded in 1996 at Farmington Bay. There is an urban goose population here. These birds never leave the valley!


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

GoosesNightMare said:


> The two I have are older females more than 2 years old The one I got last year was hatched in 2016 or earlier.
> So what you are saying is they don’t nest around Scipio Lake?


Most summers Scipio lake is a pasture. Its a runoff body of water that dries up on dry years. If your banded goose was labeled as (to young to fly) and banded at Scipio then thats a local Scipio bird. If your bird was banded as a (born before such date) then who knows where it came from? Fish lake, Koosharem res? Could be anybody's guess?

I've shot Scipio, Nesponset and Kersharem birds in the past. As adults they could of hatched on some sewerplant pond somewhere? Who knows?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

GoosesNightMare said:


> Utah lake, and Farmington bay.


Sure. Those are the only 2 places I hunt! 👍🏼


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MrShane said:


> Wow!
> Regulations are what saved the sport of Waterfowling for us to enjoy today.
> Sounds like you would like to go back to shooting ducks with a Punt gun over piles of corn under the moonlight….


That does sound like a good time!


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Or back to a scoped 22lr. How did you acquire that mugshot Meat?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

JerryH said:


> Or back to a scoped 22lr. How did you acquire that mugshot Meat?


Which one? I’ve got a couple, so you’ll have to be more specific!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> Hahaha how is the DWR getting any more money by upping the number of the daily limit on geese from 4 to 5? They aren’t selling tags for the dam things 🤣 another fact you just made up?
> 
> if you are so concerned about populations, maybe you should biitch about the late season dates instead. More damage is done in that month to bird numbers than the rest of the season.


No the Utah DWR does not receive any funds from raising the limit, however they are not interested whatsoever in conservation, biology or what's best for sportsman.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

Fowlmouth said:


> I don't know how many migrators we really see each year. Who in the last 5 years has shot a banded goose in Northern Utah that was banded in another state or country? goosefreak and I have 40 bands between us, and every single one of them are Utah birds. Heck, I shot one in 2016 at Farmington Bay that was banded in 1996 at Farmington Bay. There is an urban goose population here. These birds never leave the valley!


Idaho does not band much anymore, but hunting partner got one band out of Idaho falls in Idaho last season, the info was a Fed person that banded it. I don’t think Montana does much banding either.
We have gotten them from Samaria, Malad, BlackFoot, Dingle, Near Lima reservior and Chesterfield in Utah, but that was many years ago. I miss those days, but the refuge is dried up now.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

JerryH said:


> Most summers Scipio lake is a pasture. Its a runoff body of water that dries up on dry years. If your banded goose was labeled as (to young to fly) and banded at Scipio then thats a local Scipio bird. If your bird was banded as a (born before such date) then who knows where it came from? Fish lake, Koosharem res? Could be anybody's guess?
> 
> I've shot Scipio, Nesponset and Kersharem birds in the past. As adults they could of hatched on some sewerplant pond somewhere? Who knows?


The Nesponset bird I got was 10 years or older, hunting buddy got one two years ago in Idaho and 4 or 5 prior.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> There are very few Utah hunters that have the ability to consistently kill geese. The hunters that do target geese and consistently kill are doing it on private property. They are a small percentage of hunters compared to the average Joe public land hunter. Neither group is putting a dent in population numbers from urban or migrator geese. Like mentioned before, most guys don’t shoot 5 geese all season. 1 more bird added to the limit is certainly not the end of the world for goose populations.


Your saying basically what is already known. 5% of hunters kill 95% of the birds. 
I don't doubt that the generous limit makes little difference in the metro area. I do, however believe that it will make a HUGE difference in other parts of the state.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

GoosesNightMare said:


> I did with Rich Hansen this year about the late season dates, and his response “was to give hunters a opportunity.”
> That response tells a lot about management practices.


This is a good read I gotta chime in. 
Rich Hansen has nothing to do with setting limits.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

1BandMan said:


> Your saying basically what is already known. 5% of hunters kill 95% of the birds.
> I don't doubt that the generous limit makes little difference in the metro area. I do, however believe that it will make a HUGE difference in other parts of the state.


We'll see this year if you are right.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Anybody else see the dude on fake book post his “limit” he shot yesterday. He had a pic with 4 birds on a tailgate. Lol


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

MooseMeat said:


> That does sound like a good time!


It would be!!
For a season or two.
Then the Feds would probably have to step in and set up some regulations to protect us from ourselves….


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> Sure. Those are the only 2 places I hunt! 👍🏼


I never hunted those areas you have mentioned in past posts, so I don’t know what it was like and is now for the goose population. My statements are for northern Utah and Idaho. I have hunted Ogden bay and early 80’s before the season one grain field near the north run west of entrance for approximately 2 hrs geese were coming out of the refuge. There used to be a flight line of geese coming from BRRF or the spure to feed in the fields of hooper, with the geese that came out of Unit 3 when all of it was a closed area. I will add the promontory range we’re guys used to hunt birds coming from BRRF and club 41, and the Canada goose club. You could set there all season likely not see a goose. The geese that used to come from Locomotives springs to the fields, a Fed guy took a survey told my dad in the late 60’s there were 1200 setting on the flats. I watched as teenager all the vehicle lights going through sunset pass to hunt geese in the hansell valley range. The PSG geese, and snow geese that used to feed in the Thiokol area and north of there. The days of getting 12 bird possession are gone in Idaho for us. Not the geese, and two and maybe three migration pushes, and fewer lesser Canada geese each year, and those are more educated than in past years, which means more hunting pressure up north.
More opportunities of getting geese are being told to us by the DWR with the supposed increase goose population out of cities.
Have a conversation with the retired Veral Hatchet from cash valley about goose hunting…… not very positive.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

one4fishing said:


> This is a good read I gotta chime in.
> Rich Hansen has nothing to do with setting limits.


I did not say he did, I ran into him and voiced my concerns, but if he does not have some input being a biologist you can figure out for yourself the motive of increasing the limit to 5. His response says a lot….


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

I really shouldn't weigh in on this but geese get talked about and I just can't help myself. I am fortunate that I get to hunt the 3 worst goose states in the nation and in many of those areas I get to watch the resident numbers during the spring and summer for breeding, then late summer during the molt migration then of course through the hunting season and then spring migration back north. My observation is that the southern half of Utah, the nesting populations are growing rapidly and spreading to many places I've never seen geese nest. 
The last two seasons seem to have shown a huge molt migration out of SU in many areas I'd assume due to drought conditions? 
By November though the numbers are back up well above where brood numbers were before the molt migration. On the other side further south, geese numbers are steady or growing with peaking numbers in December and January from migrators. By late February and early March SU numbers peak with huge counts of migrators heading back north. So geese are migrating south still.
There's no doubt things are changing in areas but overall data and counts say that populations of interior Canada geese numbers are growing in the basin states and so to say that the decisions to increase the limits have nothing to do with biology seems very incorrect me.

Either way it won't affect me much because I can't seem to kill more then a few geese a year no matter what I do. 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

By the way nice Job Shane!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

A few years back there was big demand from hunters to get more opportunity for all hunting types. In many cases, that’s still what most hunters want to see. The DWR has gone out of their way to do just that. And they have done a pretty good job. Is it perfect? No. Is there things all of us would want to change on a personal level? Yes. But over all, we have it really good.

i don’t get why we have our panties in a wad over 1 extra goose allowed in your daily limit. As I recall, I don’t remember seeing any of you stand up there during the WB meeting where this was discussed and passed, to voice your opinion on the topic. You had the opportunity to be involved and voice your concerns. Jumping on the internet after the fact is as good as pizzing in the wind.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

As Fowlmouth said, we shall see how the local population holds up. 

As for the DWR there's way too many strings being pulled from the top down to begin with. They and or those above them have zero interest in conservation, biology or sportsman. There's lots of education and advanced degree's being wasted based on many of their past and current decision making.....in my and many others opinion.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

1BandMan said:


> As Fowlmouth said, we shall see how the local population holds up.
> 
> As for the DWR there's way too many strings being pulled from the top down to begin with. They and or those above them have zero interest in conservation, biology or sportsman. There's lots of education and advanced degree's being wasted based on many of their past and current decision making.....in my and many others opinion.


So where were you to voice your opinion when this very topic was being discussed in the public process?


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

MooseMeat said:


> A few years back there was big demand from hunters to get more opportunity for all hunting types. In many cases, that’s still what most hunters want to see. The DWR has gone out of their way to do just that. And they have done a pretty good job. Is it perfect? No. Is there things all of us would want to change on a personal level? Yes. But over all, we have it really good.
> 
> i don’t get why we have our panties in a wad over 1 extra goose allowed in your daily limit. As I recall, I don’t remember seeing any of you stand up there during the WB meeting where this was discussed and passed, to voice your opinion on the topic. You had the opportunity to be involved and voice your concerns. Jumping on the internet after the fact is as good as pizzing in the wind.


I voiced my opinions on the surveys that are given in Utah and Idaho. Do you really think they care…


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

MooseMeat said:


> So where were you to voice your opinion when this very topic was being discussed in the public process?


My response to the DWR was in written form, how they take and represent my opinions to the WB is unknown to me.
I am sure I am in the minority for wanting the limit reduced.
I like Goose hunting, I like to talk Goose hunting, and I wanted to know others opinions on the subject.
Like I said, I am a hypocrite when it comes to the new limit.
I am such a hypocrite I went back out Weds and did it again.
Reached down to pick up a banded Honk and it was from Plain City.
And yes, I did regret my greediness when I got home and was cleaning them in nearly 80 degree weather.
I am a weak person and just couldn’t help myself…..


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

hamernhonkers said:


> By the way nice Job Shane!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Thank you HH!
P.S. I am still jealous of how you hunt down there.


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