# I need some help guys, new pup!



## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Ok, so i have had 2 papered labs pups(10 weeks and 18 weeks) in the past and they did not end well. I had to give them both away because they were way too loud where we lived. I told myself i would never get another dog.
Well, tonight i picked up an 8 week old pure bred Germain Shorthair male. Now, i need some help on where to start and what steps to take to make sure he reaches his full potential. I guess potty training first, sit, stay etc but how long should i work on these things and when should i progress/what order should i do them in? All help will be very much appreciated.
P.S. I want a good upland dog but my passion is waterfowl.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

read these posts first.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22115


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Texscala said:


> read these posts first.
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22115


Yeah, i did read it and there is some great advice. The only thing i am wondering is the difference in a 1 1/2 year old as opposed to a 2 month old. They can't be the same can they?
Also, when can i start using a shock collar on him? I have heard to wait till about 8 months old.


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

IMO having started my 8 yo GSP from a pup. DON'T USE A E COLLAR UNTIL AT LEAST A YEAR. Hope I was clear on my opion.....  

First thing, let him get used to you and family. Get a check cord and teach, come or here. Choose one phrase/command and stick with it. IMO don't teach a pointer sit, TAK pointed this out on that post. They should stand and point, not sit and watch birds. Once again my opion, I am not a professional trainer. 

Heel has also been a good command for me and my dog. Also whoa, but I would wait on that until he is older. Best thing to do, let him be a pup. Play, run, have fun. 

Last part I will say. When you are working with him in the future. If you are getting mad at him, stop! Go back to a basic command he has learned and end on that note. If you get too frustrated and take it out on the dog, your setting yourself back. Run with other pointers when he is a little older and what makes a great bird dog? Birds!!! Once the basics are down. Good luck with him and listen to the good advice you will get on here. Most of all have fun.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Matt B:
Should i go stock up on pigeons or should i skin a bunch of ducks and upland birds and freeze them for the future?
Also, what is the best way to house train a puppy? We bought training pads but they don't seem to work all that great, atleast not yet anyway. It is too cold to take him outside right now so he just sits and shivvers when i take him out. Again, thanks for the help. I don't want a dog like i see out at some places that are not worth having.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

House training is a great place to start.

Rule #1 be consistent. Make the dog sleep in a crate. First thing in the morning take the dog out and keep it out there until it goes. When it is going give a command such as "Potty" and when it is done reward the pup by telling it what a great job it has done. Make sure you feed at a regular time and any time the dog drinks or eats it needs to go out and go to the bathroom.

Whenever your dog starts to go in the house yell "NO" loudly to startle the dog which should make it stop. Take the dog out fast and let it finish outside and give the command and reward the dog. Make sure to clean any accidents up immediately and try to use a cleaner that has a neutralizing enzyme. My dog will go to the bathroom on command and has since she was about 4 months old.

With a young pup try to make everything fun. When you are training the dog it should be loving life at a younger age. Baby talk goes a long way with a young pup.

Another important thing to do is get the dog out into the types of terrain it will be hunting in. I believe the more a dog experiences as a pup the bolder it will be as it gets older.

Here is mine 12 hours after getting off the plane and at 8 weeks old.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

While I've only worked with upland game dogs, a short-hair should have all the instinct it needs to hunt birds. The hard part with them is channeling that instinct and trying to get them to follow commands at the same time. I wouldn't worry about a shock collar until they are at least 8 months.

What I would do (not necessarily the thing to do) is work on potty training and the regular commands, but then spend time with the pup with a pheasant/duck wing or something that has good scent. I used to tie them onto a fishing pole. Then just spend a lot of time with the pup. It will have a short attention span regarding training to sit, stay, etc. but typically these pups will play with a bird for hours. The pup will chase the bird wing, but don't let it get the wing unless it does what you want. At first the pup will probably just run after it, move the wing every time it gets close. It will quickly start to move slower, and often start to point, even at 8 weeks old. This trains the dogs to hold their points. Depending on what you want the dog to do when on point, either hold it until someone comes and kicks the bird out, or teach it a command to flush the bird, you can start training those commands with very young pups. Let the pup get the wing, (when it does the right thing) but not sit and chew on it as it may affect the hardness of mouth. 

This is what I have done, the pups love it, and it gives you a good opportunity to "play" with your pup while still teaching it how to hunt.

Good luck, this is just my thoughts -- and I have mostly used this method with young brittanies.


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## LockedFlockSage (Mar 26, 2008)

There is a lot of good information and help that comes from forums such as this, a lot of guys with a lot of experience for sure. But their is no way you can take a pup and train it the distance (full potential) with this as your only source of info. My recommendations would be to go buy a program and stick with it. If you have issues you encounter along the way use this as a source to see how others have handled it. You and your pup will have more success and progression!


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

Others may disagree, but I would hold off on birds till spring. Work on the basics now. I've heard more than one story of a dog's life being saved by them knowing the "whoa" or "come" command. So they don't run into the road, or play with a snake, etc. 

I will wait and see what the guys who do this a lot say. :mrgreen:


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I agree with Matt. Teach your dog some discipline before you put it on live birds.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Another question: What is a good way to get a pup to drop something he has in his mouth? I don't want to let the tug-of-war thing happen and it is somewhat.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Another question: What is a good way to get a pup to drop something he has in his mouth? I don't want to let the tug-of-war thing happen and it is somewhat.


Wrap your hand around his snout and pinch your fingers and thumb together, pressing his cheeks against his teeth. He'll learn to drop it right into your other hand.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> > Another question: What is a good way to get a pup to drop something he has in his mouth? I don't want to let the tug-of-war thing happen and it is somewhat.
> 
> 
> Wrap your hand around his snout and pinch your fingers and thumb together, pressing his cheeks against his teeth. He'll learn to drop it right into your other hand.


Thanks, i will try that tomorrow morning with him.


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## slapwater (Jun 18, 2009)

When it comes to basic obedience, I am always a fan of making the desired action the dog's idea. Instead of forcing the dogs mouth open, give the dog a reason to do it himself. Offer a treat that the dog likes. When he opens his mouth to eat the treat he will naturally drop what is in his mouth. Give the desired command like "drop it" (consistency is key) and give the treat. He will associate the command with the action and the reward and over a short time and some practice drop whatever is in his mouth.


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## LockedFlockSage (Mar 26, 2008)

slapwater said:


> When it comes to basic obedience, I am always a fan of making the desired action the dog's idea.


Sounds like the dog is in the driver seat in this relationship.


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

LH2, just wondered how you were progressing with the pup? Also hope it is inside for this very cold weather.........Brrrrrrrrrrrr. about -12 below at my house this morning.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Matt B said:


> LH2, just wondered how you were progressing with the pup? Also hope it is inside for this very cold weather.........Brrrrrrrrrrrr. about -12 below at my house this morning.


I can see a difference in his potty training as of today. As soon as he wakes up, he is put outside. He goes right away and is praised instantly. I tried the thumb and fingers around the snout to drop toys and non-toys and it works pretty good. Last night was a bit hectic as he whined most of the night. And yes, he stays in the house 99% of the time. He gets cold VERY fast. He is already bringing toys directly to my side when they are thrown for him. Now i just need to get him to stop jumping on the kids. He seems to respond well to a forceful "NO". Again, thanks for all the help. I am sure i will have more questions as he progresses.


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

I put my pups on birds right from the get go. I have successfully trained 2 Shorthairs, so I'm no expert by any means but I also learned a great deal going through the process. Both dogs turned out to be fantastic hunters. As with any dog genetics play a big roll. With the dogs I've trained they had everything that a great dog needs already built in my job was to channel or help harness those instincts. 
With regards to E-collars, I personally fill that 6 months of age is sufficient to introduce stimulation. Now, understand before using any stimulation the dog will already have an understanding of each command (ie, Kennel, Whoa, Here). I don't teach my pointing dogs the sit command until their older.
The most important key to training a young dog is to keep sessions fun, short, and apply NO pressure. Again, keep it fun, short, and apply NO pressure. The dog will respond quickly. I use treats (Dog food nuggets) to teach the basic commands and then ween them off. This works great and they learn fast. While pup is learning these command and during playtime I put the e-collar on them to get them use to wearing it. I have found that if there accustom to wearing it, that when the time comes to start applying stimulation they don't associate the placement of the collar with the stimuation. At 6 month after they have a complete understanding of each command, I begin using stimulation and this quickly reinforces all commands.
I begin conditioning pup to loud banging the day I bring them home. When pup is eating I have a metal garbage can that I bang on. I start soft at first but within a week I'm fully banging on the lid with a stick. It's very loud and pup pays no attention to it. When I comes time to introduce the gun to pup (with birds, important), he pays no attention to the bang at all.
If you would like a complete write-up on the process I use to train my pups I can email it to you.
Enjoy the process, it's fun!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Now i just need to get him to stop jumping on the kids. He seems to respond well to a forceful "NO".


Nothing wrong with this approach, another option is to scream as if you are injured when it jumps or bites. Puppies naturally do this to communicate and it works quite well.

You can also back away from the puppy and put yourself somewhere the pup can't get to you.

Sounds like you are making progress

Keep it up


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

GSPonPoint said:


> I put my pups on birds right from the get go. I have successfully trained 2 Shorthairs, so I'm no expert by any means but I also learned a great deal going through the process. Both dogs turned out to be fantastic hunters. As with any dog genetics play a big roll. With the dogs I've trained they had everything that a great dog needs already built in my job was to channel or help harness those instincts.
> With regards to E-collars, I personally fill that 6 months of age is sufficient to introduce stimulation. Now, understand before using any stimulation the dog will already have an understanding of each command (ie, Kennel, Whoa, Here). I don't teach my pointing dogs the sit command until their older.
> The most important key to training a young dog is to keep sessions fun, short, and apply NO pressure. Again, keep it fun, short, and apply NO pressure. The dog will respond quickly. I use treats (Dog food nuggets) to teach the basic commands and then ween them off. This works great and they learn fast. While pup is learning these command and during playtime I put the e-collar on them to get them use to wearing it. I have found that if there accustom to wearing it, that when the time comes to start applying stimulation they don't associate the placement of the collar with the stimuation. At 6 month after they have a complete understanding of each command, I begin using stimulation and this quickly reinforces all commands.
> I begin conditioning pup to loud banging the day I bring them home. When pup is eating I have a metal garbage can that I bang on. I start soft at first but within a week I'm fully banging on the lid with a stick. It's very loud and pup pays no attention to it. When I comes time to introduce the gun to pup (with birds, important), he pays no attention to the bang at all.
> ...


PM sent, thanks for the offer!


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> ...Last night was a bit hectic as he whined most of the night. And yes, he stays in the house 99% of the time. He gets cold VERY fast. He is already bringing toys directly to my side when they are thrown for him. Now i just need to get him to stop jumping on the kids. He seems to respond well to a forceful "NO". Again, thanks for all the help. I am sure i will have more questions as he progresses.


For the whining at night get the pup some type of toy and place it in the kennel/crate with him. Also an old towel. We got all our pups stuffed larger toy...Dogs are den animals and as such like a sense of something/companionship with them.

Now for the jumping...just raise a knee as the dog jumps with a commanding 'no'. The dog will hit the knee and within just a few times of this they remember the negative knee feeling and will stop jumping.

Key with basic obedience training of any dog is standardization and consistency...meaning all involved need to use the same one word commands.

For example in our house we use:

*Off* = jumping on furniture
*Give* = drop whats ever in the mouth
*Take* = when you are giving them a treat for good behavior and when you 'dismiss' the dog. So the dog learns not to go ape when they see you have treats for them...
*Stay* = in the position their in they don't leave that position...if they do you must 'immediately' put them right back into that position. I use my open hand fingers together with a motion right in front of the dog say 'stay'...walk away if the dog moves do it again and use some type of gesture like an open hand. Once the dog understands 'stay' the open hand isn't necessary
*Down* = lie down and point to the ground while using your other hand behind the nape of their head and push them down. They will quickly learn down when you point to the ground and eventually when you just use the word 'down'
*Sit* = sit...while you command sit place your hand on the dogs hind quarters and push down.
*No* = no for bad behavior make this 'commanding'
*Come* = come

...and most important is the 'magic fun word'

*Dismiss*...means whatever you're having the dog do it's now ended and make this time reward time with lots of praise and play.

From my experience at basic obedience training...you must work the dog at least 15 minutes in the morning and at evening starting say with sit/down/stay commands...then working more commands in as the dog progresses...and when '*dismissed*'...lots of love, praise, and play time with the dog.

Now for begging when your eating...the key here is IGNORE the dog no matter how much barking/whining they do...*no eye contact with the dog at all.* If you can't stand it place the dog in the kennel/crate and shut the gate.

Lots of praise and adequate play time is also a must for a well balanced and disciplined dog. Including they must be provided their own special toys you play with them.

Finally and I believe most important for the over 'health' of your dog never feed a dog (or any pet) 'people' food. Talk with your vet and I'm sure they'll agree people food is not at all good for pets. Get them their own dog food and special 'dog' treats/snacks.

These are just a few things I've used for years including showing dogs while in Arizona in basic obedience meets...they work.

Good luck and with any Pet there is unconditional love but remember they need lots of love back and consistency.

:wink: :wink:


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## sniper (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks lunkerhunter2 for this topic. I am in your same shoes as I too picked up an 8 week old GSP last week. I have been following the UWN since it was started, but I have never even looked at the Hunting Dogs section or even made any posts. Since I picked up this pup, I have looked at several other forums but the information given has not been as good as what is given here. I should have just started looking here :!: 
Good luck on your training. 

Hopefully I can learn from all of you and contribute to this forum. I have several questions of my own but I won't hijack this thread. 

Thanks again


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

Hey guys. We do like pics of new pups and progress you've made as well. Glad you both found the forum. There is some good advice on here from folks. Good luck with your pups!


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## sniper (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks for the PM will, that was very detailed and informative. 
I will try to get some pictures, but I will need help posting them when I do. I don't want to be the guy who gets on here and asks for help then disappears. 
Thanks for the help.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Matt B said:


> Hey guys. We do like pics of new pups and progress you've made as well. Glad you both found the forum. There is some good advice on here from folks. Good luck with your pups!


I will be in another state for a few days. When i get back i will post pics of him(if i still own him). My wife says he is worse than both kids were. O-|-O


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

Uh Oh....cuteness factor has worn off....... :shock: :mrgreen: 

Good luck with the Missus.......


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