# Self Preservation



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Reading through the post of "why is self processing so difficult" It has got me thinking, WHAT IF?? So, what if something was to happen, like power outage for an extended amount of time. Or a disaster of some sort that would interrupt the transportation of goods to store shelves and so on? Someone commented about bottling meat and canning things we grow in the garden. This is very important if a power loss happened and all the meat we worked so hard to process spoiled and became useless. 

I remember as young kid helping my Mother can vegies, corn, beets, making pickles, chili sauce, bread and butter pickles, mustard pickles, peaches, pears, cherries, jams, jelly and much more. She would also pressure cook fish and wild game. 

Both Mom and Dad were depression kids and they never threw anything away. I mean nothing! I considered it on the borderline of being a hoarder. Mom would scold us kids if we tossed the aluminum foil in the trash after unwrapping a baked potato. She would flatten it out, fold it and keep it for the next potatoes. It was that bad. 

After the COVID run on the stores and items being grabbed up and resold for ten times the value, I have been more conscious of what I buy and toss away. I am now thinking of going back to "the old ways" and begin to prepare if something bad does happen. I have plenty of ammo stocked for my needs for at least 5 years. But I'm really considering to begin bottling meat. 

I know the LDS Church has said to have a 2 year food and water supply, but, how many of us really have that and know how to rotate those supplies to keep them from going bad? 

I'm interested in others thoughts about this.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Great post! We have two years worth of food supply of the essentials. Plus lots of bottled meat and dehydrated meals. We also have about 1,000 gallons of water stored. I think we are in pretty good shape, and rotate through the food to keep fresh stuff in our food storage.

I’d love to get some pickled vegetables and more canned vegetables in the food storage though.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

I know I don't have as much knowledge or supplies as I'd need. I'd do better than most but it'd take some time to live comfortably.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I had this talk with my wife 20 years ago, about the most *realistic*, worst case scenario we might encounter. The best thing I could come up with is a moderate to major earthquake in the start or middle of a bad winter. Utilities would be out, no water, no electricity, and no natural gas. Damage to roads with the winter storms would delay repairs until spring / summer. With that as a scenario, the questions become simpler. How do we heat the house? Food storage is easy in winter, everything is cold.

For heat, I figured the BTU output of my Big Buddy heater, and if I closed the doors to a few unused rooms, it can easily heat the house. I have 2, 100lb propane bottles, plus 2 30's on the trailer and another 4 20s from old bbq's and whatnot. I try to keep most of them full, propane never goes bad so its a fantastic fuel source. I have all the adapters to hook the bulk tanks to a copper line to run in to the house (through the dryer vent) and into the buddy. I can run 2 months running it when needed. The fan can be powered via 5v USB battery pack (also, I have a 12v to 5v usb harness from a dashcam I never permanently wired up). Plus I can use my Trailer Deep cycle RV batteries, the deep cycle battery from the boat, plus I have 4 more 35AH batteries we run electric trolling motors off of. (oh yea, and I could yank another 5 or so batteries out of atvs / motorcycles if needed). I also have 200 watts of solar on the trailer so that can recharge batteries during the day as needed, and we have a few generators. I do keep quite a bit of gasoline around, we rotate it from time to time into a vehicle and refill cans. I try to use blue gas for this, and it works fine.

So yea, we could survive for a few months, middle of winter with no utilities at all. If I really had to, we have hot-water heat so I could pipe propane into the boiler to run that burner, but it would require 110v to run the circulation pump. That would overall be more efficient than the buddy. I've been looking into a good 1500-2000 watt inverter for emergencies. Cheap ones can have issues, nice ones are dang expensive.

Food, we're good... at least 8 months worth, maybe alot more. 8 months buys enough time to relocate if things were really that bad. I also have alot of next level first aid supplies. Suture kits, anti-biotics, splints, anti-microbial / anti-fungal stuff. Water filtration is a big deal so some cheap sawyer filters are gtg... you can even order a cheap ceramic filter from china and build a gravity powered water filter with a couple homedepot buckets.

If a major event happened in the summer, well then food in freezers / fridge becomes a concern. We have a couple 5 gal buckets with food grade salt so we could pull out meat and salt it down, make salt pork... salt deer... salt elk... lol. But, with a lack of need to use propane for heat, those can run a generator for a really long time. I already have transmitters from the freezers to keep an eye on temps, so if we kept them closed as much as possible, you wouldn't have to run a freezer all that long each day to keep things frosty.

But ... however you prepare, make sure you do a "test run" with setting stuff up. In SHTF situations, if say you need a brass adapter to hook one propane hose (ACME) to another device (POL)... its stupidly cheap to get that now, you are F'd later if you find you need it and no way to get it.

-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The wife and I are currently in the process of "down sizing". It never ceases to amaze me how much useless crap we have accumulated. Among that has been maybe a hundred or more quarts of bottled fruit and vegetables If you don't eat it it is pretty much worthless. We do have a pretty good supply of canned goods. Now if we will ever rotate though them remains to be seen.

We recently had to replace a 50 year old freezer. Amazing the stuff that was buried.

I realize that most of this is an organizational problem on my part.

I understand the "hording" of my parents. When my mom died she not only had a ten+ year supply of most things, she had saved every Styrofoam container from take out meals and meals on wheels for I don't know how long.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Well sure, but how many bread bag twist ties did she have saved up? 


-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Well sure, but how many bread bag twist ties did she have saved up?
> 
> 
> -DallanC


Those little twist ties have lots of uses, I hated it when the bakers switched to those worthless plastic clips 



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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

middlefork said:


> We recently had to replace a 50 year old freezer. Amazing the stuff that was buried.


Store stuff you like to eat, then its much easier to rotate through. 

My wife usually defrosts each of our two freezers in the spring, before it gets too hot. Its easy to move newer stuff to the bottom or back of shelves. In our upright freezer, we bought big clear plastic bins that fit half a shelf perfectly. that makes it super easy to slide out the bin to get at whatever is in there. The chest is a bit harder of course. we put foods in there that we want to save for a longer period as its cheaper to run than a upright.

-DallanC


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

I think DallanC is right on abou


DallanC said:


> I had this talk with my wife 20 years ago, about the most *realistic*, worst case scenario we might encounter. The best thing I could come up with is a moderate to major earthquake in the start or middle of a bad winter. Utilities would be out, no water, no electricity, and no natural gas. Damage to roads with the winter storms would delay repairs until spring / summer. With that as a scenario, the questions become simpler. How do we heat the house? Food storage is easy in winter, everything is cold.
> 
> For heat, I figured the BTU output of my Big Buddy heater, and if I closed the doors to a few unused rooms, it can easily heat the house. I have 2, 100lb propane bottles, plus 2 30's on the trailer and another 4 20s from old bbq's and whatnot. I try to keep most of them full, propane never goes bad so its a fantastic fuel source. I have all the adapters to hook the bulk tanks to a copper line to run in to the house (through the dryer vent) and into the buddy. I can run 2 months running it when needed. The fan can be powered via 5v USB battery pack (also, I have a 12v to 5v usb harness from a dashcam I never permanently wired up). Plus I can use my Trailer Deep cycle RV batteries, the deep cycle battery from the boat, plus I have 4 more 35AH batteries we run electric trolling motors off of. (oh yea, and I could yank another 5 or so batteries out of atvs / motorcycles if needed). I also have 200 watts of solar on the trailer so that can recharge batteries during the day as needed, and we have a few generators. I do keep quite a bit of gasoline around, we rotate it from time to time into a vehicle and refill cans. I try to use blue gas for this, and it works fine.
> 
> ...


I think DallanC is spot on about a winter emergency. I would guess that a high 90% of people could not stay warm for even a few days let alone weeks in an earthquake scenario. Especially in the city areas.
A good pressure cooker to bottle items is around $100, a supply of bottles and lids to can your frozen meat a couple hundred more. Learning to bottle meat is no harder than learning anything else, you just need the desire to do it. A small price to pay for peace of mind in an emergency.

How many people have water to last a few days or weeks. I would guess around the same amount as could heat their living space. Don't even think of heating the whole house.

With that said and seeing how people react in an emergency. I believe it will be Mad Max. If you have it you better be able to protect it because there are a lot of people that if cold and hungry will have no problem taking it from you. Better have a good plan for defense of what you have now because mobs are ugly things.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One nice thing if you have a well insulated camp trailer is that you can just move into it and winterize your home 

Back in the Y2K scare all I planned to do was to move into my camper. It has everything that I needed to live with if the power and energy grids went down.

A tech that I worked with was going to take his work truck home that had a propane generator on it. I asked him why and he said that he was going to use the generator to run his refrigerator, I told him that on the first of January refrigeration would be the least of his problems. 

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

You can use a good pressure cooker to purify water with some tubing and a bucket... but there gets to be a level of "survival" where you have to ask yourself what kind of a world are you willing to live in? 

MadMax is a great movie... but it would suck to live in. Prep to get you through an emergency event is great... prep to survive EOTWAWKI... meh, IDK if its worth it actually.

-DallanC


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## lifesshort (Apr 3, 2017)

DallanC said:


> You can use a good pressure cooker to purify water with some tubing and a bucket... but there gets to be a level of "survival" where you have to ask yourself what kind of a world are you willing to live in?
> 
> MadMax is a great movie... but it would suck to live in. Prep to get you through an emergency event is great... prep to survive EOTWAWKI... meh, IDK if its worth it actually.
> 
> -DallanC


I will have to look up the water purification with a pressure cooker. I don't think and earthquake would be end of the world but I do wonder what people will do if they have nothing prepared for an emergency and come across someone who has stuff they need.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Keep some plastic dropcloths around and ductape. If a window breaks you need a way to seal it off. I keep 3 or 4 around, cheap 10x12's from Homedepot, they cost a couple bucks. I end up using them for various things all year long. Very handy.

-DallanC


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I would think that in Utah, we would have to worry about the "big one" (Earthquake) that will happen one day. That being said, How many folks that do have food storage, keep it in the basement, along with glass jars that have the bottled meat and preserved foods one has worked so hard to have in a situation? How many have a gas valve wrench to shut off the meter to the house? I think I'll be trying to figure out a place to keep the emergency reserves, if that means digging a small underground storage facility that is fortified to handle an earthquake.

I also have a couple cases of cheap Vodka that could be used for disinfecting and trading if it came down to that. I also have a few bottles of the good stuff for "personal medicinal use".

If all else fails, I'll head to Dallans place. Sounds like he has it figured out and has great ideas that I didn't think about.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

taxidermist said:


> If all else fails, I'll head to Dallans place. Sounds like he has it figured out and has great ideas that I didn't think about.


I agree. So Dallan, what’s your address?!?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Too many people already know where I live... 

Gas valve comment is a good one, mine are the flat blade type, so crescent wrench can turn it, it also has a hole in the center so anything you can poke in that hole to leverage it (ie: screwdriver) can turn it also.

Another thing people really need is a water meter valve "key" to turn that off at the meter. My meter is like 5+ ft below the grade of the lawn, no way to get at it without a long key without someone else to hold your ankles as you crawl in upside down. Meter covers are usually 5 sided nuts... so make sure you have a means to turn that dumb thing (vice grips, channel locks etc). My water service pipe rotted through a few years ago and was leaking between the meter and the house... it was a PITA to shut down. Had to R&R the line.

Also... make sure you know where your meters are... and that you know you can find them if there is 2ft of snow and you need to shut it off ASAP.

-DallanC


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Dallan - you should teach some type of emergency preparedness class or prepper type deal. I’m sure you’d kill it along the Wasatch Front (remember me for all your CPA needs when you strike it rich) 😉.

I used to think common sense was common … then I heard about this dude name Dave Ramsey who was making MILLIONS each year teaching people to not spend more than they make … 🤦🏻‍♂️


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I am thinking yous guys are way over thinking this thing. A couple them AR thingamabobs, 15,000-20,000 rounds of ammo buried in the back yard, ought to bout handle it..right? oh wait...is that a Bradly parked up there at the end of my street...oh shoit, I am screwed.
But seriously, most of us people that live in a home with a little property will get by with just a few of the basics and a little planning, but those people living in apartments, and lordy there a lot of them, will probably end up in shelters. So, lets all hope and support a good active government and not a country run by a bunch of "I got mine" anti government turds.


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## TheOtherJeff (Oct 7, 2021)

I've always been of the mind that 10 guys with six revolvers between them still have one guy with four ARs outgunned, and the six neighbors who can tear down the fences between their houses have an acre to plant three sisters instead of a 55-gallon drum of powdered peanut butter.

Of course, when the pandemic hit I was at Costco with everyone else. Anyone need a few cases of ramen noodles?


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

One shot One kill. I guarantee most of you guys will not see it coming. LOL

But I did learn something and got a bidet.

Why is this not over on the prepper thread?


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

A "2 year supply" isn't necessary meant for a household alone, but to help out a neighbor in need as well.

The more important question is security. If things got as bad as it would need to get to have to rely semi-long term on stored food, water, and fuel, imagine the kind of deadly looting and other crime that would run rampant...


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

Preparing for the future unknown events has never been easier. There is lots of on line help and many companies who have some amazing products. That being said, I’m a firm believer in knowing the outdoor skills that were common knowledge 200 years ago and seem lost today. I’ve got generators for back up power and have also taught my kids to build a fire using flint and steel. It’s important to stay well rounded. Like others mentioned, tons of food storage does little good if it’s broken on the floor of the fruit room. Freeze dried meals are one option I like. A 72 hour kit is a huge help if stored right and even works for those with limited room. I’d rather be ready and not use the skills and supplies anyway over being in a bind without a way to take care of my family. And every rancher I know has lots of ammo to keep free loader unprepared folks from shooting their cattle when the grocery stores are empty. 😁


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

cowboy said:


> Preparing for the future unknown events has never been easier. There is lots of on line help and many companies who have some amazing products. [That being said, I’m a firm believer in knowing the outdoor skills that were common knowledge 200 years ago and seem lost today. I’ve got generators for back up power and have also taught my kids to build a fire using flint and steel.


+1

A good Christmas present idea for people is to get some of those "endless matches". They use flint and steel striker, but also have a wick and oil... so it stays burning longer. Plus, you could smear some oil on whatever you are trying to ignite. They are stupid cheap. I bought a bunch a couple years ago and put one in every pack, every vehicle especially the atvs and snowmobiles.









10 Waterproof Permanent Match Lighter, Endless Match, Survival Camp Fire Starter | eBay


(2) Scratch the skin of the black flint off until it’s glossy as steel. A small amout of fuel should be added before use! Mini shape, light weight, space-saving and easy to carry. Item size: (48 x 30 x 10)mm.



www.ebay.com








> It’s important to stay well rounded.


+1000



> Like others mentioned, tons of food storage does little good if it’s broken on the floor of the fruit room. Freeze dried meals are one option I like. A 72 hour kit is a huge help if stored right and even works for those with limited room. I’d rather be ready and not use the skills and supplies anyway over being in a bind without a way to take care of my family. And every rancher I know has lots of ammo to keep free loader unprepared folks from shooting their cattle when the grocery stores are empty. 😁


My sister in law bought a freeze dryer and they are always giving my wife some snacks, different things to try. I was considering getting one... but foods I've found are hit and miss as far as if I like them or not. Some fruits are great, others, not so much. And freeze dried skittles candy? Why... lol.

I also would like to know how much power it takes to run a cycle, I do know it takes quite a while to process a batch, batch size is of course reliant on the size of the freeze dryer unit. Also, what maintenance is needed on the motors and other things. How long before the pump needs replacing etc etc.

My suggestion... try lots of different freeze dried foods first, before committing the several thousand $$$$.

-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Local company for freeze dryers. Maybe give them a call.









Harvest Right Home Freeze Dryers - The best way to preserve food


Freeze drying at home with a Harvest Right freeze dryer is the best way to preserve food for your family.




harvestright.com


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

DallanC said:


> I've been looking into a good 1500-2000 watt inverter for emergencies. Cheap ones can have issues, nice ones are dang expensive.


The only black friday deal I was interested in, I picked up a Renogy 2000watt Pure Sine Wave inverter for $100 off regular price. It arrived yesterday, I will hook it up tonight and run some tests... if I can run a 1800watt heat gun for a while with no issues, its GTG. 









Renogy 2000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12V DC to 120V AC Converter for Home, RV, Truck, Off-Grid Solar Power Inverter 12V to 110V with Built-in 5V/2.1A USB Port, AC Hardwire Port, Remote Controller : Patio, Lawn & Garden


Renogy 2000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12V DC to 120V AC Converter for Home, RV, Truck, Off-Grid Solar Power Inverter 12V to 110V with Built-in 5V/2.1A USB Port, AC Hardwire Port, Remote Controller : Patio, Lawn & Garden



www.amazon.com





Residential Fridge / Freezer usually only need 300-400 watts after start up, so figure a temporary spike of double that for rotor lock... 800'ish watts... 2k inverter should be GTG with margin to spare. If the freezer was already at temps, it would only run occasionally... meaning its theoretically possible to take a chest freezer or fridge to deer camp and run it off solar (probably need to run it off generator to get initial temps down, then the inverter could take over to maintain frozen temps). I should run a test on my chest freezer to see how often it needs to cycle during the summer.

I'll be wiring this into the RV in the spring when we dig it out of storage for occasional light 110v use. (I have a small 200watt small inverter that runs the TV / media player with music and movies... that combined only uses 40watts total).

-DallanC


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