# Well--Jazz/OK3



## HighNDry

Looks like the big 3 for OKC stepped it up. They had a brilliant game plan and one I think could be the demise of the Jazz in this series.

It looks like they are going to make numerous lobs (alley oops) into the middle and either hammer it down or cause Gobert to get into foul trouble. Last night Gobert decided to not defend the rim and stay out of foul trouble. Next game he might get more aggressive and end up on the bench. 

For Jazz fans to say we are just fine, OKC cannot have that great of a game again are relying on the wrong attitude. Hopefully, the coach and players do not have that mentality. 

Can the league review the play were Rubio was slapped in the face twice and do something about it?


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## wyoming2utah

OKC kept running a double ball screen with Westbrook coming off the picks and Adams diving to the rim...because Westbrook was so deep, Gobert would step out and Westbrook would lob up an alley-oop. That play scares me...what doesn't scare me, though, is the Jazz game plan. They did what they needed to do and forced OKC into a shooting team. Look at the number of outside shots they took...the big 3 were firing up shots all over the perimeter. That needs to continue...I doubt seriously that George will have another night where he hits 8 of 11 from the 3 point line.

I still think the Jazz will win this series and am ok if they don't. It will be interesting to see if the OKC superstars will be able to carry them to the win like they did yesterday.


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## #1DEER 1-I

wyoming2utah said:


> OKC kept running a double ball screen with Westbrook coming off the picks and Adams diving to the rim...because Westbrook was so deep, Gobert would step out and Westbrook would lob up an alley-oop. That play scares me...what doesn't scare me, though, is the Jazz game plan. They did what they needed to do and forced OKC into a shooting team. Look at the number of outside shots they took...the big 3 were firing up shots all over the perimeter. That needs to continue...I doubt seriously that George will have another night where he hits 8 of 11 from the 3 point line.
> 
> I still think the Jazz will win this series and am ok if they don't. It will be interesting to see if the OKC superstars will be able to carry them to the win like they did yesterday.


They could pull it out, but I'm less optimistic. This is a bad match up for the Jazz. OKC has 3 stars, and in the NBA it matters. The Jazz have the biggest star they've ever had and one of the most intense competitors they've ever had in Donovan Mitchell, so they have that, but OKC has the advantage. Game 2 IMO will likely decide this series. The Jazz can't afford to lose game 2, if they do, it may go 7 games, but a game 7 in OKC will be a tough hill to climb. Either way, Mitchell is flat out amazing to watch,a great kid, and beyond someone you want to see succeed. I hope they can pull it out or at least push it to 7 games very competitively.


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## MuscleWhitefish

OKC is normally a 35% from 3 team and they shot 50% last night. 

OKC is one of the worst FT shooting teams in the NBA (29th ~ 72%) and they didn't miss until late in the game. 

Paul George was on fire and the jazz lost by 8 points. 

There is hope for Mitchell can go on Wednesday. 

One thing that is enjoyable to watch is the battle between Gobert and Adams. I hope the refs continue to let them play.


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## HighNDry

Some teams just have the players and the ability to step it up when it really counts. My personal opinion is Jazz have not been one of them for a long, long time. Hopefully, in the future we will see it.

I am so tired of Westbrook's nonstop whining all game, every game. That and his attitude are what make him from being a player you can get behind.

I'd hate to see it, but I get the feeling there is going to be some real nasty play in the next few games.


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## Catherder

HighNDry said:


> I'd hate to see it, but I get the feeling there is going to be some real nasty play in the next few games.


It's the playoffs. I am sure you are right, but I doubt it will be personal.

As for my take on the game, 3 stats stand out to me.

1. 5-18 Rubio's shooting stats. 
2. 8-11 George's 3 point shooting.
3. 48.3% OKC's 3 point percentage.

Like I said in that earlier thread before it turned into a debate about what "is" is, Rubio is the X factor for the Jazz. They are at their most dominating when he is on and he clearly wasn't yesterday. He will have to do better for the Jazz to have a chance.

The 3 point shooting of George and OKC was unreal. If they keep that up for the whole series, they will win. It could happen but statistics would suggest that it won't. If those numbers come down to season averages, we will have a series. The Jazz still may lose as I'm more uncertain of the Jazz offense than improved defense, but it will be fun to see regardless.


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## 3arabians

HighNDry said:


> I am so tired of Westbrook's nonstop whining all game, every game. That and his attitude are what make him from being a player you can get behind.


You said it! He is also ugly and dresses poorly. &#129315;

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## 3arabians

Catherder said:


> It's the playoffs. I am sure you are right, but I doubt it will be personal.
> 
> As for my take on the game, 3 stats stand out to me.
> 
> 1. 5-18 Rubio's shooting stats.
> 2. 8-11 George's 3 point shooting.
> 3. 48.3% OKC's 3 point percentage.
> 
> Like I said in that earlier thread before it turned into a debate about what "is" is, Rubio is the X factor for the Jazz. They are at their most dominating when he is on and he clearly wasn't yesterday. He will have to do better for the Jazz to have a chance.
> 
> The 3 point shooting of George and OKC was unreal. If they keep that up for the whole series, they will win. It could happen but statistics would suggest that it won't. If those numbers come down to season averages, we will have a series. The Jazz still may lose as I'm more uncertain of the Jazz offense than improved defense, but it will be fun to see regardless.


Agreed. Rubio had some serious swag in the first 5 minutes but then lost it after that.

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## RandomElk16

#1DEER 1-I said:


> *The Jazz have the biggest star they've ever had* and one of the most intense competitors they've ever had in Donovan Mitchell


I get called out for saying Hayward was great for the Jazz, but you Jazz fan's (w2u especially) aren't going to jump on this statement???


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## 3arabians

RandomElk16 said:


> I get called out for saying Hayward was great for the Jazz, but you Jazz fan's (w2u especially) aren't going to jump on this statement???


Ha! Good point. Hello! Stockton to Malone!!

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## PBH

HighNDry said:


> That and his attitude are what make him from being a player you can get behind.


I'd argue contrary to this. Sure, I don't like his whining. But that chip that he carries, and the fire under his skin? That's hard to find. Westbrook goes all-out every game. His intensity is scary. I'd take that fierceness on my team any day.

Random -- I think all of us, including w2u, would agree that 1-I's comments about Mitchell being "the most intense competitor the Jazz have ever had" is extremely premature. He obviously didn't watch the Jazz through the 90's when guys like Stockton and Malone played. He probably doesn't even realize that the Incomparable Mr. Ron Boone also played basketball for the Jazz. Or Pete Maravich. Adrian Dantely. Dr. Dunkenstein.

I hope to add Mitchell to that list at some point in the future.


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## wyoming2utah

PBH said:


> I'd argue contrary to this. Sure, I don't like his whining. But that chip that he carries, and the fire under his skin? That's hard to find. Westbrook goes all-out every game. His intensity is scary. I'd take that fierceness on my team any day.


Besides being super athletic, the thing that makes Westbrook so good is that chip he carries. He plays with an anger and intensity that is unmatched. It helps him transcend the good players in the league!

The thing that scares me about the matchup with OKC is that the NBA is a star's league and the referees blow the whistle accordingly. But, the Jazz have overcome stars before...last year to be more specific. Blake, Paul, and Deandre couldn't hold back Jinglin' Joe and Iso Joe last year. I am still hopin' Mitchell and Ingles, and Rubio will lead the way this year!


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## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> I'd argue contrary to this. Sure, I don't like his whining. But that chip that he carries, and the fire under his skin? That's hard to find. Westbrook goes all-out every game. His intensity is scary. I'd take that fierceness on my team any day.
> 
> Random -- I think all of us, including w2u, would agree that 1-I's comments about Mitchell being "the most intense competitor the Jazz have ever had" is extremely premature. He obviously didn't watch the Jazz through the 90's when guys like Stockton and Malone played. He probably doesn't even realize that the Incomparable Mr. Ron Boone also played basketball for the Jazz. Or Pete Maravich. Adrian Dantely. Dr. Dunkenstein.
> 
> I hope to add Mitchell to that list at some point in the future.


Alright, maybe the intense competitor thing is a step premature, but the he has much more of a star power about himself than anything they've ever had. Stockton and Malone were tough, and some of the greatest basketball players ever, they didn't exactly have the star power though. Stockton would have much rather had no fame and just played the game, and Malone was in the exact right place for who he was. Mitchell will be a big name star in the NBA so long as injury doesn't derail him.


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## #1DEER 1-I

wyoming2utah said:


> Besides being super athletic, the thing that makes Westbrook so good is that chip he carries. He plays with an anger and intensity that is unmatched. It helps him transcend the good players in the league!
> 
> The thing that scares me about the matchup with OKC is that the NBA is a star's league and the referees blow the whistle accordingly. But, the Jazz have overcome stars before...last year to be more specific. Blake, Paul, and Deandre couldn't hold back Jinglin' Joe and Iso Joe last year. I am still hopin' Mitchell and Ingles, and Rubio will lead the way this year!


The Jazz will get a much more fair whistle at home, but if they don't get game 2 I wouldn't expect a nice whistle in game 7 in OKC if that's what it comes down to. Getting Game 2 is pretty vital to this series. Stars get calls in the NBA, that's just how it is, and rookies don't. The problem with Ingles is, is once a team takes time to truly focus on him, he becomes who he looks like he is out there and can be basically eliminated. The Jazz truly didn't play that bad in game 1, and yes it was an 8 point loss but let's be honest it wasn't really that close of a game and it never felt like the Jazz could even get to the hump let alone over it after their first run. You have to hope the law of averages come into affect cause the Jazz executed pretty decently on the defensive side of the floor and the Thunder got them. Rubio and Ingles has horrible games and have to find a way to do better in game 2.


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## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Stockton and Malone were tough, and some of the greatest basketball players ever, they didn't exactly have the star power though. Stockton would have much rather had no fame and just played the game, and Malone was in the exact right place for who he was.


Stockton's fame is something to look at it. As you mentioned, he didn't look for, or want that "star power". Which is one reason he was so great.

The difference between an all-time great like Stockton vs. today's "super stars" can easily be seen by one simple quote. When asked by a reporter "why, in half-court situations, [do you] still looked toward the bench to get a play call from coach Jerry Sloan" Stockton answered by saying "Why wouldn't I? He's the coach. He runs the team."

What a stud.


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## RandomElk16

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Alright, maybe the intense competitor thing is a step premature, but the he has much more of a star power about himself than anything they've ever had. Stockton and Malone were tough, and some of the greatest basketball players ever, they didn't exactly have the star power though. Stockton would have much rather had no fame and just played the game, and Malone was in the exact right place for who he was. Mitchell will be a big name star in the NBA so long as injury doesn't derail him.


The starpower part was actually what stood out.. I couldn't even get to the competitor part without spitting my apple juice.

Malone and Stockton are bigger stars than you give credit.

What about Pistol Pete, Mark Eaton, and Hornacek? What about Dantley! He won two scoring titles with the Jazz, and was probably the best straight up scorer they ever had!

DM is someone to be excited about, but time is testament. Give him more than 80 games before we sell the farm.


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## caddis8

I thought the game was slightly better than a blowout. Dante Exum was good, and then played outside of himself. there was a stretch where there were 4 unforced turnovers in a row and that was the game. Exum had two, Ingles had 1, and Mitchell had one. That was ugly basketball. 

If they can play within the system, they'll be fine. Rubio was ok, not poor, and not great. Gobert was ok. Adams vs Gobert is a terrible match up as Adams is one of the most physical centers in the league (and I really dislike him because he plays almost dirty) and in the playoffs, the refs swallow the whistles down the stretch of the game. I didn't think the game was officiated poorly, but there was plenty of pushing that went uncalled. Gobert is not the physical type that Adams is and usually struggles against that match up. 

Westbrook (as much as I can't stand him) is a great player. He plays with fire that can't be taught. He can't defend very well, isn't a great 3 point shooter, but can get to the lane about any time he wants. 

OKC is not a great defensive team, really. They are a physical team and bruise their way to get teams out of system. Anthony couldn't ever defend more than a fencepost or a chair, and even then may leave it alone. George is a long defender and Adams is a tough SOB. The key to the Jazz will be playing within themselves, closing down lanes, and slowing up transition. OKC in transition is dangerous. Utah can win the series if they slow it to a half court game and will not if they allow OKC to run, which is where OKC got the lead last game- turnovers into points.


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## #1DEER 1-I

RandomElk16 said:


> The starpower part was actually what stood out.. I couldn't even get to the competitor part without spitting my apple juice.
> 
> Malone and Stockton are bigger stars than you give credit.
> 
> What about Pistol Pete, Mark Eaton, and Hornacek? What about Dantley! He won two scoring titles with the Jazz, and was probably the best straight up scorer they ever had!
> 
> DM is someone to be excited about, but time is testament. Give him more than 80 games before we sell the farm.


I mean you can believe that but it's not all that true. Go ask someone outside the state of Utah who Mark Eaton is and it'll take you a long time to find someone who knows. Stockton and Malone are mentioned and are without a doubt all time greats but they didn't have the star power to exactly be what other players are, and no it's not all about market part of it is how marketable a player is. Stockton was incredible and remembered because of how incredible he was but marketable? Not really. Amazing basketball player, but not a super star, and I loved Stockton. Mitchell is marketable, charismatic enough, and good enough as a rookie to garner a lot of attention. Yes longevity matters, but he has a lot of traits that have the potential to change a franchise in a way other players can't. He has a long way to go, but there are things about him that make him a much different type of star than the Jazz have ever had.


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## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> Stockton's fame is something to look at it. As you mentioned, he didn't look for, or want that "star power". Which is one reason he was so great.
> 
> The difference between an all-time great like Stockton vs. today's "super stars" can easily be seen by one simple quote. When asked by a reporter "why, in half-court situations, [do you] still looked toward the bench to get a play call from coach Jerry Sloan" Stockton answered by saying "Why wouldn't I? He's the coach. He runs the team."
> 
> What a stud.


I think you're hard pressed to say Mitchell doesn't have super star written all over him along with that attitude. There's a lot of story to be written but Mitchell isn't a ****y arrogant prick, and it doesn't appear he'll turn into one.


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## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I think you're hard pressed to say Mitchell doesn't have super star written all over him along with that attitude. There's a lot of story to be written but Mitchell isn't a ****y arrogant prick, and it doesn't appear he'll turn into one.


I never said Mitchell doesn't have super star potential. I like Mitchell. A lot. I think he has a great attitude, charisma, personality, and marketability.

I hope it all pans out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it does. I want nothing more than to see another statue outside of the arena. Those statues will leave a longer lasting impression than a ring. Hell, Greg Foster has a championship ring. Nothing like watering down the value...


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## RandomElk16

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I mean you can believe that but it's not all that true. Go ask someone outside the state of Utah who Mark Eaton is and it'll take you a long time to find someone who knows. Stockton and Malone are mentioned and are without a doubt all time greats but they didn't have the star power to exactly be what other players are, and no it's not all about market part of it is how marketable a player is. Stockton was incredible and remembered because of how incredible he was but marketable? Not really. Amazing basketball player, but not a super star, and I loved Stockton. Mitchell is marketable, charismatic enough, and good enough as a rookie to garner a lot of attention. Yes longevity matters, but he has a lot of traits that have the potential to change a franchise in a way other players can't. He has a long way to go, but there are things about him that make him a much different type of star than the Jazz have ever had.


Ask someone who knew Basketball in 1989 who he was, they knew.

"Notoriety" is different now days because of that darn tweeter and bookface. You have 13 year olds talking trash about MJ v Lebron, when they never witnessed MJ play.

I am going to pretend we aren't debating that Donovan, 80 games in, is a bigger star than Malone.


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## #1DEER 1-I

RandomElk16 said:


> Ask someone who knew Basketball in 1989 who he was, they knew.
> 
> "Notoriety" is different now days because of that darn tweeter and bookface. You have 13 year olds talking trash about MJ v Lebron, when they never witnessed MJ play.
> 
> I am going to pretend we aren't debating that Donovan, 80 games in, is a bigger star than Malone.


You don't have to pretend, that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying there's a difference in the type of star Mitchell has the potential to be, compared to any previous player that's played here if his career continues on its current trajectory.


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## #1DEER 1-I

caddis8 said:


> I thought the game was slightly better than a blowout. Dante Exum was good, and then played outside of himself. there was a stretch where there were 4 unforced turnovers in a row and that was the game. Exum had two, Ingles had 1, and Mitchell had one. That was ugly basketball.
> 
> If they can play within the system, they'll be fine. Rubio was ok, not poor, and not great. Gobert was ok. Adams vs Gobert is a terrible match up as Adams is one of the most physical centers in the league (and I really dislike him because he plays almost dirty) and in the playoffs, the refs swallow the whistles down the stretch of the game. I didn't think the game was officiated poorly, but there was plenty of pushing that went uncalled. Gobert is not the physical type that Adams is and usually struggles against that match up.
> 
> Westbrook (as much as I can't stand him) is a great player. He plays with fire that can't be taught. He can't defend very well, isn't a great 3 point shooter, but can get to the lane about any time he wants.
> 
> OKC is not a great defensive team, really. They are a physical team and bruise their way to get teams out of system. Anthony couldn't ever defend more than a fencepost or a chair, and even then may leave it alone. George is a long defender and Adams is a tough SOB. The key to the Jazz will be playing within themselves, closing down lanes, and slowing up transition. OKC in transition is dangerous. Utah can win the series if they slow it to a half court game and will not if they allow OKC to run, which is where OKC got the lead last game- turnovers into points.


The amount of physicality allowed is what will decide the series. When they come back here the whistles will tighten up on OKC, but in OKC they're gonna get away with a lot. I would say this series is either Jazz in 6 or OKC in 7.


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## wyoming2utah

#1DEER 1-I said:


> You don't have to pretend, that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying there's a difference in the type of star Mitchell has the potential to be, compared to any previous player that's played here if his career continues on its current trajectory.


I will give you this: in my eyes, Mitchell has an "it" factor that Hayward didn't. It is the same quality that I see in Westbrook--an intense desire to win and be the best. In my eyes, Hayward seemed to be thrust into a star role that he neither wanted nor was. And, I believe that he left Utah partially to escape the mantle that the state and the franchise so desperately wanted him to be. As I watch Mitchell play, I see him rise in the fourth quarter and take the big shots and make the big shots. I see him relish in the moment unlike Hayward. To me, Mitchell has the potential to be a superstar not only because of his skill and ability, but also because he has that innate quality and desire that pushes him to excel. It is a special quality that allows the best players to transcend...Michael Jordan had it better than anyone I have ever seen; Muhammad Ali was the first person I have seen have it; Tiger Woods had it and is trying to recapture it. Now, don't get me wrong...almost every professional athlete has some level of it. But, the best...the very best just have a lot more of it!

Agree or disagree, that is what I see!


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## #1DEER 1-I

wyoming2utah said:


> I will give you this: in my eyes, Mitchell has an "it" factor that Hayward didn't. It is the same quality that I see in Westbrook--an intense desire to win and be the best. In my eyes, Hayward seemed to be thrust into a star role that he neither wanted nor was. And, I believe that he left Utah partially to escape the mantle that the state and the franchise so desperately wanted him to be. As I watch Mitchell play, I see him rise in the fourth quarter and take the big shots and make the big shots. I see him relish in the moment unlike Hayward. To me, Mitchell has the potential to be a superstar not only because of his skill and ability, but also because he has that innate quality and desire that pushes him to excel. It is a special quality that allows the best players to transcend...Michael Jordan had it better than anyone I have ever seen; Muhammad Ali was the first person I have seen have it; Tiger Woods had it and is trying to recapture it. Now, don't get me wrong...almost every professional athlete has some level of it. But, the best...the very best just have a lot more of it!
> 
> Agree or disagree, that is what I see!


Yes, that's what I'm going for, he has the "it" factor so many lack. He's a rookie and you can already plainly see it. He had no problem essentially taking the roll they wanted to push on Hayward, only he took it they didn't have to give it to him. This on top of his personality, along with how he was raised-don't know how many of you have listened to his mom but she's a great lady- and how obviously grounded he is has him on his way to an already running start to greatness. He has the game, he has the confidence, and he has the killer instinct all while being a good decent person. He's a perfect package as of now and one of the more respectable profession athletes I've seen especially today.


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> I will give you this: in my eyes, Mitchell has an "it" factor that Hayward didn't. It is the same quality that I see in Westbrook--an intense desire to win and be the best. In my eyes, Hayward seemed to be thrust into a star role that he neither wanted nor was. And, I believe that he left Utah partially to escape the mantle that the state and the franchise so desperately wanted him to be. As I watch Mitchell play, I see him rise in the fourth quarter and take the big shots and make the big shots. I see him relish in the moment unlike Hayward. To me, Mitchell has the potential to be a superstar not only because of his skill and ability, but also because he has that innate quality and desire that pushes him to excel. It is a special quality that allows the best players to transcend...Michael Jordan had it better than anyone I have ever seen; Muhammad Ali was the first person I have seen have it; Tiger Woods had it and is trying to recapture it. Now, don't get me wrong...almost every professional athlete has some level of it. But, the best...the very best just have a lot more of it!
> 
> Agree or disagree, that is what I see!


Hey, while we disagreed on Hayward I do agree on this. He doesn't have the "it" factor (this doesn't change my previous stance). Unfortunately with all these clinics, specialized comp teams, computer systems to improve athletes, etc... it all becomes robotic. The drive, the "it", just isn't there, even for great players. A lot of athletes are children of wealth, former athletes, these "special" (AAU) systems... While Mitchell is a product of that, he still has a drive that propels him.

A lot of respect for those that have more than passion, but this "why" within their limbic system powering them to greatness.

That is also why I argued about "Donovan wouldn't have gotten the development he has..." - Honestly, what Donovan has been doing is coming from within.


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## 3arabians

Thats what im talking about!! Punched in the gut with a 19-0 run then punch right back 18-3. That was impressive!! Mitchell was obviously great but when Rubio and Favors put it together like they did this Jazz team is tough to beat. 

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## Catherder

Well, it won't be a sweep. Great team win with Favors beasting, Mitchell fantastic when we needed it most and Rubio with 22 and nearly a triple double. 

It's far from over but it should be even more exciting from here.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Favors and Rubio played great. Gobert was decent....and I really hope everyone who has ever watched the Jazz will turn them on and watch that 21 year old rookie who is simply incredible. Lots of other guys had decent nights, but after that 19-0 fun Mitchell took it upon himself to creat shot after shot and punch back. What the kids doing is ridiculously rare and amazing to watch if you enjoy sports at all......then watch his postgame. NBATV had Lebron post game on right before the Jazz players post game and his quotes are “I lost game one” “I tied the series 1-1”....I,I,I. Donovan deflects everything to his teammates when he could easily be self congratulatory but never is. 

They’ve got a chance in this series now, it was a very important game and they took care of business.


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## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> ....then watch his [Mitchell] postgame. NBATV had Lebron post game on right before the Jazz players post game and his quotes are "I lost game one" "I tied the series 1-1"....I,I,I. Donovan deflects everything to his teammates when he could easily be self congratulatory but never is.


That was awesome. Even the NBATV guys picked up on that, and spent time talking about Utah's "team" mentality.
Mitchell started out the interview by immediately giving credit to Favors. It was refreshing listening to that interview after listening to Westbrook saying "I got what I wanted" and then Lebron with all his I, I, I, me, me, me....


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## hunting777

I only got to watch the last quarter of the game, but wow. To hold their Three ""so called super stars"" to minimal points in the forth qt. was just plain awesome. Good for Mitchell and good for Snyder , well heck good for the Jazz on changing things up. Good win!


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## RandomElk16

#1DEER 1-I said:


> NBATV had Lebron post game on right before the Jazz players post game and his quotes are "I lost game one" "I tied the series 1-1"....I,I,I.


If Lebron says I, he gets blasted. If he puts the loss on the team, he gets blasted. He isn't on social media but actually made sure that Uninterrupted posted a video of him letting people know the reporter gave him a heads up she would ask about Pop. No one knew that and she was getting blasted by people. That's a classy move.

"*We* got lucky. *We* gave up a wide open 3. *We* gotta do a better job..."

"*We* haven't scored the ball... My *guys* kept coming"

He gets asked a ton of "You" questions and turns them into the team. Maybe listen closer next time. When you score the first 16, and 46 total and get asked about it - when you have been the guy getting asked for 15 straight years about YOU, he does a great job. Never once did he say the "I" misquotes you guys stated. She asked his mentality and he said get back to Indiana tied 1-1. That was really the only thing he said about him, and that isn't a bad mentality.

The better comparison is Donovan and Simmons. You should be humble as a rook. Simmons comes across very arrogant for being year 1. Donovan knows this is just the beginning and wants to lead his team. While I don't agree on the comparison, I do agree that Donovan is well composed and humble.


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## #1DEER 1-I

RandomElk16 said:


> If Lebron says I, he gets blasted. If he puts the loss on the team, he gets blasted. He isn't on social media but actually made sure that Uninterrupted posted a video of him letting people know the reporter gave him a heads up she would ask about Pop. No one knew that and she was getting blasted by people. That's a classy move.
> 
> "*We* got lucky. *We* gave up a wide open 3. *We* gotta do a better job..."
> 
> "*We* haven't scored the ball... My *guys* kept coming"
> 
> He gets asked a ton of "You" questions and turns them into the team. Maybe listen closer next time. When you score the first 16, and 46 total and get asked about it - when you have been the guy getting asked for 15 straight years about YOU, he does a great job. Never once did he say the "I" misquotes you guys stated. She asked his mentality and he said get back to Indiana tied 1-1. That was really the only thing he said about him, and that isn't a bad mentality.
> 
> The better comparison is Donovan and Simmons. You should be humble as a rook. Simmons comes across very arrogant for being year 1. Donovan knows this is just the beginning and wants to lead his team. While I don't agree on the comparison, I do agree that Donovan is well composed and humble.


No, I'm personalky someone who holds the opinion Lebron is the most talented basketball player ever.....but he absolutely talks about me, me, me. He absolutely lives in his own world, he absolutely makes it all about himself. I enjoy watching Lebron, but I'll also be honest. He's a self delusional, self absorbed pro athlete, and you can't legitimately argue otherwise. There's a huge difference between a Lebron postgame and this


----------



## RandomElk16

"*I* was settling... *I* have to get to the basket, that's one of *my* strengths"

It's impossible to be the star, get asked questions about you, and not talk about yourself at all. That honestly isn't all that different from a Lebron postgame interview. Then again, I watch every Cavs game and see every interview so I know the full context. Lebron has done an exceptional job, being the highest caliber superstar you can be, during interviews.

Although I don't think Lebron is all those "self" things you said, when you think of most Superstars in modern NBA (back to maybe 70s/80s), they have to have some "me" and put the team on their back or they won't be that way. If you were talking Kobe, who was a jerk to his teammates and would try and destroy any confidence young players had by forcing them to play one on one, or Jordan who did things like tell a teammate they would never play ball again because he was going to break both their legs... that is the "self" statements you talked about. It made them dang fierce competitors though.

I understand why you think that way.. but will agree to disagree.


----------



## RandomElk16

Are any of you actually going to the home games???


----------



## TPrawitt91

RandomElk16 said:


> Are any of you actually going to the home games???


I wish. Last year I dragged my 8 months pregnant wife to one of the home games against the clippers. Only time I have been to a playoff game.


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> Are any of you actually going to the home games???


No. I will be home so I can watch every Cleveland game and every interview so I know the full context. That way maybe I will see that he is not nearly as self-absorbed as he comes across.


----------



## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> No. I will be home so I can watch every Cleveland game and every interview so I know the full context. That way maybe I will see that he is not nearly as self-absorbed as he comes across.


Well, I have been a Lebron fan since before he entered the league. Much like a Jazz fan watches every game they can, I watch all his games.

Thanks for the sarcastic pissy-ness


----------



## RandomElk16

TPrawitt91 said:


> I wish. Last year I dragged my 8 months pregnant wife to one of the home games against the clippers. Only time I have been to a playoff game.


Congrats on the baby! It seems Quin has a system set and some personnel that should keep getting the Jazz in the playoffs, hope you can hit another one!

Playoff's live is such an awesome environment!


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## 3arabians

TPrawitt91 said:


> I wish. Last year I dragged my 8 months pregnant wife to one of the home games against the clippers. Only time I have been to a playoff game.


Thats awesome! I went to a jazz vs clippers playoff game also. Mom surprised my bro and I with tickets way back in 1992. We were 16 years old. Jazz won that series 3-2 back in the days when the first round was best of 5. There is something special about watching a playoff game in person.

Something that hasn't been mentioned on this thread or the slide thread (maybe I missed it) regarding Utah's success:

How about GM Dennis Lindsey!? You have to give him a ton of credit for the roster. A lot of people dont realize that he was responsible for assembling a championship roster prior to being brought on by the Jazz.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## Catherder

Rubio with a triple double. (Who was saying he is the X factor?;-)) Great team win. 2 to go and it will get tougher. Great fun to watch!

I thought OKC's big three were starting to press in the second half tonight. It will interesting to see how they come out on Monday. If they listen to all the talking heads on TV for the next two days, they may either be on fire or perhaps (hopefully) discombobulated.

Hey, and a TOTP to boot.


----------



## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> Rubio with a triple double. (Who was saying he is the X factor?;-)) Great team win. 2 to go and it will get tougher. Great fun to watch!
> 
> I thought OKC's big three were starting to press in the second half tonight. It will interesting to see how they come out on Monday. If they listen to all the talking heads on TV for the next two days, they may either be on fire or perhaps (hopefully) discombobulated.
> 
> Hey, and a TOTP to boot.


Great game all around. Totally worth staying up til 12:30 eastern to watch.

Rubio was the man, Mitchell turned in another great game, and I was happy to see ingles get going tonight. Loving watching the Jazz this postseason.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## #1DEER 1-I

Catherder said:


> Rubio with a triple double. (Who was saying he is the X factor?;-)) Great team win. 2 to go and it will get tougher. Great fun to watch!
> 
> I thought OKC's big three were starting to press in the second half tonight. It will interesting to see how they come out on Monday. If they listen to all the talking heads on TV for the next two days, they may either be on fire or perhaps (hopefully) discombobulated.
> 
> Hey, and a TOTP to boot.


If the Jazz go up 3-1 there's a good chance they'll be so far inside OKCs head and frustrated that they won't be mentally strong/focused enough to come back IMO. Jazz win tomorrow, they win this series. The crowd yesterday was insane, and the national media from OKC, to ESPN, etc. said it was one of the loudest most engaged crowds they've seen in a long time. With Westbrook's postgame comments on Rubio, Paul George push offs, and their whining about the refs I expect tomorrow nights crowd to be great as well, along with some on court chipiness we haven't yet seen in this series which will just further engage the crowd. The Jazz had lots of turnovers, some bad decisions and the Thunder shot lights out from 3 last night and essentially got blown out with the exception of a couple small runs where the Jazz lost focus and played turnover basketball. They've got a real chance to put a stranglehold on this series tomorrow night and I expect them to do so.


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## Kwalk3

The "pushoff p" chants were pretty spot on. Had me laughing. Would have loved to be there in the arena. You could sense the energy even on the broadcast.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 2full

Westbrook is talking smack now ......

Says it won't happen for Rubio again. 
He will make sure. 

Looks like game 4 will be a bit competitive 

Could be a fun one to watch.


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## hunting777

2full said:


> Westbrook is talking smack now ......
> 
> Says it won't happen for Rubio again.
> He will make sure.
> 
> Looks like game 4 will be a bit competitive
> 
> Could be a fun one to watch.







I AM EXCITED TO WATCH THE NEXT GAME.


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## MuscleWhitefish

Whomever, wins game 4 will win this series.

I do not see the jazz taking two of the last 3 with two games being in Oklahoma city. 

I do not see the Thunder winning three straight.


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## HighNDry

Golly, that was a great game. I don't really have any trolling material to get Jazz fans riled up.

I even have the feeling that if Westbrook puts the screws to Rubio it will allow another Jazz player to step up.

OKC might try to rough things up a bit, but if the Jazz can keep their composure and stick to the plan and continue to hit shots, I think they can pull this series out.

I thought Ingles hit threes with perfect timing. That cross court pass is set up brilliantly. It did get picked off a couple of times but when Jazz pulled it off it was beautiful. Hard to defend.


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## neverdrawn

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Whomever, wins game 4 will win this series.
> 
> I do not see the jazz taking two of the last 3 with two games being in Oklahoma city.
> 
> I do not see the Thunder winning three straight.


There were many people who didn't see the Jazz taking one of the first two in OKC but here we are! You also can't discount what the Jazz did last year to the Clips in game 7.


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## MuscleWhitefish

neverdrawn said:


> There were many people who didn't see the Jazz taking one of the first two in OKC but here we are! You also can't discount what the Jazz did last year to the Clips in game 7.


I see OKC as a sleeping giant.

Westbrook really hasn't played well.

Melo sucks, but is still really talented.

George shoots too many jumpers, but is elite defensively.

Adams dominates when he isn't in foul trouble. He is the master of the moving screen.

It is a lot better to win game 4 and watch OKC crumble rather than go to game 5 in OKC with their crowd.


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## #1DEER 1-I

This letter by Gobert a good example of why fans love this team as much as they do and want them to succeed. There's a commitment to the team that we haven't seen in a very long time here.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/rudy-gobert-utah-jazz


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## #1DEER 1-I

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I see OKC as a sleeping giant.
> 
> Westbrook really hasn't played well.
> 
> Melo sucks, but is still really talented.
> 
> George shoots too many jumpers, but is elite defensively.
> 
> Adams dominates when he isn't in foul trouble. He is the master of the moving screen.
> 
> It is a lot better to win game 4 and watch OKC crumble rather than go to game 5 in OKC with their crowd.


Like I said, I think tonight decides the series. If the Jazz get this disconnected group down 3-1 I think they crumble, and I think this series ends in game 6 here. I also get what you're saying about their players, but Quin is that good of coach and Rudy is that good of a defender. Westbrook can't get inside like he normally does because Gobert is there and it has been frustrating him. Melon has always been the exact player he's been in this series. A decent individual player but not a guy who can single handedly beat you and takes bad selfish shots. Paul George hit some tough shots in Game 1 and even Game 3. Aside from a few runs the Jazz have basically handed the Thunder when they looked like they were trying to lose the game due to turnovers, the Jazz have controlled them. You do have to hope they don't just do super star things tonight, but I think this team can handle them at home or should be able to. That said, the Thunder will be desperate, but the Jazz should be to. This game will decide the series and both should be fighting like hell to win tonight.


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## MuscleWhitefish

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Like I said, I think tonight decides the series. If the Jazz get this disconnected group down 3-1 I think they crumble, and I think this series ends in game 6 here. I also get what you're saying about their players, but Quin is that good of coach and Rudy is that good of a defender. Westbrook can't get inside like he normally does because Gobert is there and it has been frustrating him. Melon has always been the exact player he's been in this series. A decent individual player but not a guy who can single handedly beat you and takes bad selfish shots. Paul George hit some tough shots in Game 1 and even Game 3. Aside from a few runs the Jazz have basically handed the Thunder when they looked like they were trying to lose the game due to turnovers, the Jazz have controlled them. You do have to hope they don't just do super star things tonight, but I think this team can handle them at home or should be able to. That said, the Thunder will be desperate, but the Jazz should be to. This game will decide the series and both should be fighting like hell to win tonight.


Another reason why Westbrook cannot get inside is the underrated defense by Rubio. However, Westbrook has missed a lot of shots that he should make and if he starts to make them - then the Jazz are in trouble. Westbrook gets a lot of hate, but the dude plays so freaking hard and has a killer mentality.

Melo is worrysome if he can get rolling, because the jazz switch a lot of picks which will leave Rubio or Mitchell on him in the low block. Most of the time this happens westbrook goes one on one, but still it is a mismatch. I think Melo cannot score consistently on Favors in the low block. However, if Melo starts making the three - Favors might be put in the bind.

George to me makes a lot bigger impact on the defensive side of the ball. Watch for him on Mitchell in the fourth.

I am excited to watch the Jazz play again tonight. It is a must win game to put a stranglehold on the series. If the Jazz can continue to own the fourth quarter they should win, because OKC has been anything but clutch.


----------



## wyoming2utah

wyoming2utah said:


> OKC kept running a double ball screen with Westbrook coming off the picks and Adams diving to the rim...because Westbrook was so deep, Gobert would step out and Westbrook would lob up an alley-oop. That play scares me...what doesn't scare me, though, is the Jazz game plan. They did what they needed to do and forced OKC into a shooting team. Look at the number of outside shots they took...the big 3 were firing up shots all over the perimeter. That needs to continue...I doubt seriously that George will have another night where he hits 8 of 11 from the 3 point line.
> 
> I still think the Jazz will win this series and am ok if they don't. It will be interesting to see if the OKC superstars will be able to carry them to the win like they did yesterday.


I said this back after the Jazz lost game 1. I still think the same things apply...luckily for the Jazz, Adams has been in foul trouble the past two games and has been only a factor in his absence. OKC is doing what OKC does and rely heavily on their mid-range and 3-pt game. Their inconsistency, though, is costing them games and they are playing right into the Jazz's game plan. I don't see that changing and I think the Jazz will win this series.


----------



## Kwalk3

What a beautiful ugly game! 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## hunting777

What a fun game to watch!!! there was so much energy going on in that game. At first it really seemed liked we were not doing to hot. But wow did things pick up. I loved how Westbrook was losing it. Yea Ingles was taunting a little , but it sure made it entertaining to watch. Jazz have a good thing going for them right now. Now I am even more excited to watch the next game especially its at their home court. It's going to be intense! As Mitchell said last night, "just one more game". hats off to him. that after the game interview was great. He thanked his whole team and the fans. loved it.


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## MuscleWhitefish

Westbrook should probably be suspended. 

He was not in the game when the altercation happened with Gobert and he left the scorers table and got into it with Gobert.

I mean if the NBA suspended Green for game 5 of the finals, Diaw and Amare in the Suns WCF. Then Westbrook should get the same treatment.


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## HighNDry

But wait! There are really people who like Westbrook and his attitude on the basketball floor. In fact, they support his type of behavior as intense, fiery and appropriate. In fact, they'd love to play on a team with such a fierce competitor. They believe he is a great example to the youth of America. Pro sports: If you don't get your way, push, shove, hit and mouth-off. It's beautiful to some.


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## wyoming2utah

....and then there are BYU fans.


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## caddis8

wyoming2utah said:


> ....and then there are BYU fans.


Now that's funny right there.


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## Kwalk3

I'm a BYU grad and fan. Don't lump me in with the rest of them. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Catherder

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Westbrook should probably be suspended.
> 
> He was not in the game when the altercation happened with Gobert and he left the scorers table and got into it with Gobert.
> 
> I mean if the NBA suspended Green for game 5 of the finals, Diaw and Amare in the Suns WCF. Then Westbrook should get the same treatment.


Yeah, you are right. However, I doubt the league would do that as it would basically finish off the Thunder right there. I'm slightly worried they may suspend Crowder, although his action seemed to be adequately punished by getting tossed last night.

It was quite a game. I was amazed how OKC stopped running any semblance of offense in the second half and started chucking. Even "Push off P" looked ineffective. The close out game is usually the toughest, but I have to like our chances at this point. Even tomorrow on the road.



HighNDry said:


> But wait! There are really people who like Westbrook and his attitude on the basketball floor. In fact, they support his type of behavior as intense, fiery and appropriate. In fact, they'd love to play on a team with such a fierce competitor. They believe he is a great example to the youth of America. Pro sports: If you don't get your way, push, shove, hit and mouth-off. It's beautiful to some.


If you are looking for great examples for the youth of America, you would be ill served finding them in sports. Westbrook's positives and negatives have been well documented and have been on full display in this series. Complimenting his positives does not mean one is giving full approval to his full body of behavior and vice versa.

I suppose if you want upstanding examples for the youth, BYU athletes would fit your bill. Like Nick Emery.


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## PBH

Catherder said:


> If you are looking for great examples for the youth of America, you would be ill served finding them in sports.


Steven Adams sums that up quite well:



Steven Adams said:


> "In New Zealand, you get the well-known people, but you won't look at them for like a moral compass," Adams says. "Over here, some people look to these athletes to, like, solve their problems. It's like, 'Bro, we play basketball.'"
> But there's a bit of an irony there, with him existing on a team chock full of galactic levels of stardom, players such as Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony and George who have their own gravitational pull.
> It's fine by Adams, who remains confused by the idea of stardom.
> "If you're going through something serious, go see a psychologist. Like, f---! Don't look to us."


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## RandomElk16

Catherder said:


> It was quite a game. I was amazed how OKC stopped running any semblance of offense in the second half and started chucking.


The Jazz deserve credit for how they are playing... but it is really clear that Billy Donovan is a terrible coach!

Quin is schooling him.


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## caddis8

I really liked that article by the way. Cool story.


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## HighNDry

Did any of you catch the Ingles interview post game with Shaq and Barkely? I thought it was a little over the top in making fun of his Australian roots. Ingles laughed most of it off, but it has got to get old for him. He has been playing great in this series and I wish they would have focused on that. Oh well, I guess Barkley is a little nervous since he predicted that OKC would walk through Utah and give Houston a run for their money.

And yes, Nick Emery is not a good example. He at least is trying to change and get the things he is struggling with in life back in order. If Westbrook looked to be doing the same, I would be pleased.

And I don't mind a little edginess or hot-headedness during the haet of battle, but I would like to see more handshaking and apologizing for behaviors afterwards.


----------



## PBH

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Westbrook should probably be suspended.
> 
> He was not in the game when the altercation happened with Gobert and he left the scorers table and got into it with Gobert.


No suspension. Just a postgame technical assessed, along with the $10k fine.
http://www.nba.com/article/2018/04/24/thunder-russell-westbrook-fined-postgame-technical-foul

Whoopty-freakin-do.


----------



## caddis8

I'd like to see the rationale of not suspending. I think there would have to be some mental and logical gymnastics done to be able to come up with a ruling that is not a fine. 

The League protects its stars- always has and always will. I would anticipate an OKC win tonight so the league can push the series because it has turned out to be one of the better series in the playoffs. I don't think it means cooking the books, but I would guess the officials will be tighter on everything after they failed to handle the game. Lots of free throws and stoppage in play which will throw off rhythm. 

But, if Utah plays disciplined ball and continues to move and defend, OKC may press too hard and force things which will take themselves out. OKC is probably a more individually talented team, but they don't play team ball well and hand the torch to whomever has the hot hand and try to score more rather than defend. 

Adam Silver may be worse than David Stern.


----------



## wyoming2utah

Kwalk3 said:


> I'm a BYU grad and fan. Don't lump me in with the rest of them.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Actually, I root for BYU too...just not against Utah, or Utah State, or SUU.

Westbrook's fiery demeanor has taken him a long ways. Last year, let's not forget, the guy was voted as the league's MVP. He doesn't earn that honor without that fiery attitude. I think he has some of the same type of fire that drove Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and many other greats.

The difference is that those other guys, as unlikeable as they often are on the court, have the unique ability of helping their teams win playoff games. Right now, Westbrook appears to be more interested in his personal stats (see his stat padding in the last game of the year as he boxed out his own teammates and his selfish desire to shut Rubio down as examples) than the team winning. He may or may not learn to become the winner those other stars were/are...if he doesn't, though, he may go down similar to Carmelo or Tracy McGrady, guys who couldn't win in the playoffs.

Watching the TNT broadcast of that last game made me feel like Barkley was on Utah's side and Shaq was on OKC's. IF the Jazz go on to win like they should, I would imagine that Donovan will be gone as will George. I think Donovan is getting a little too much of the blame for OKCs difficulties...though he is the captain of the sinking ship, who has ever been able to get Carmelo to win in the playoffs? And, like I said in another thread, you can't just throw superstars together and expect them to mesh as a team. Sometimes, individual talents don't mesh well. Who knows what Donovan is doing behind closed doors and in timeouts that we cannot see. I wonder how much those individuals are disregarding game plans and instruction from the coach. I would be willing to bet that it wasn't Donovan who was telling Westbrook to stick close to Rubio and opening up lanes for Mitchell. I would be willing to bet it wasn't Donovan also who was having Westrbrook stick close to Rubio on the 3 point line and not helping on pick-n-rolls so that Gobert could get dunks on dives to the rim. The truth is that the NBA is a star's league and the coach takes the blame even when the stars don't do their job!


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## wyoming2utah

PBH said:


> Whoopty-freakin-do.


Whoopty-freakin-do? The NBA handed down the worst punishment they could give him! They are making him play the Jazz again!

http://newsok.com/thunder-trip-to-s...ed:+Newsok/Thunder+(NewsOK.com+RSS+-+thunder)


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## PBH

that's funny.


----------



## Critter

I take what Barkley says with a grain of salt and usually don't even listen to him. 

A few years ago after Stockton and Malone were gone he made the remark that Utah would be stuck in the cellar as long as they were in Utah and that there was no way that they could get a quality player to come to the Jazz. 

My take on it is that OKC has a number of all stars on their team but if you watch them they don't play as a team, it is usually just a one man show which doesn't work. 

Utah on the other hand has a team of players that have to play as a team to get to where they are going. I think that is the big difference.


----------



## PBH

caddis8 said:


> I'd like to see the rationale of not suspending. I think there would have to be some mental and logical gymnastics done to be able to come up with a ruling that is not a fine.


From the NBA, the incident between Westbrook and Gobert


NBA said:


> ...occurred after Westbrook came onto the court as a substitution following a stoppage of play.


http://www.nba.com/article/2018/04/24/thunder-russell-westbrook-fined-postgame-technical-foul

According to Westbrook:


Russel Westbrook said:


> I was at the scorer's table waiting. The foul went, the horn blew. So, I walked on the court. I was already in the game. Once I was in the game, they told me to wait because they told me I was going to review it or whatever. Once they did that, then obviously the altercation happened so I was already on the floor.


Another question: Was Westbrook waived onto the court by an official? He says, for him, it's about the horn, anyway:


Russel Westbrook said:


> As soon as I hear the horn (I come onto the court). It's rare throughout the season where the refs be like, 'everybody come in.' They don't do that. Once the horn hits everybody just walks on the court.


so, just another issue where basic fundamentals are thrown out the window in the NBA.


----------



## caddis8

As an official, it drives me nuts. Consistency is key in officiating and the the only consistent thing with NBA officials is inconsistency. 

The league has been throwing T's out like candy this year (7 in the game and some of those were pretty tame to deserve a T). They've even thrown stars out of the games (remember the Teague/Towns Minnesota game a few weeks back) but then there is inconsistency in applying rules that are basic rules. 

Granted, I don't envy the NBA officials. There is a lot going on with the game. They're big, fast, physical, temperamental, and incredibly talented. They have a hard job. I'd love to hear what training they give on how to handle stars.


----------



## RandomElk16

caddis8 said:


> Adam Silver may be worse than David Stern.


This is over the top.

Silver actually does a great job. He is a far contrast than a guy like Goodell or Stern.

Stern was all about power. What he said goes. Silver has found a great balance in having a good relationship with the owners and the players.

Just because you are a Jazz fan and Russ didn't get suspended, doesn't make him the worse. The Jazz are in control of this series, and Billy Donovan will 100% help destroy any hope OKC had. Things will be fine - it's not a conspiracy.


----------



## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> Watching the TNT broadcast of that last game made me feel like Barkley was on Utah's side and Shaq was on OKC's. IF the Jazz go on to win like they should, I would imagine that Donovan will be gone as will George. I think Donovan is getting a little too much of the blame for OKCs difficulties...though he is the captain of the sinking ship, who has ever been able to get Carmelo to win in the playoffs? And, like I said in another thread, you can't just throw superstars together and expect them to mesh as a team. Sometimes, individual talents don't mesh well. Who knows what Donovan is doing behind closed doors and in timeouts that we cannot see. I wonder how much those individuals are disregarding game plans and instruction from the coach. I would be willing to bet that it wasn't Donovan who was telling Westbrook to stick close to Rubio and opening up lanes for Mitchell. I would be willing to bet it wasn't Donovan also who was having Westrbrook stick close to Rubio on the 3 point line and not helping on pick-n-rolls so that Gobert could get dunks on dives to the rim. The truth is that the NBA is a star's league and the coach takes the blame even when the stars don't do their job!


I think Carmelo was TOO much. If they didn't try and force that (as you said, the meshing) then George and Westbrook would have, and actually have, done some good stuff. That and Carmelo has never been one to share, I don't know what OKC was thinking he would benefit when they got him.

Interesting take on Donovan with Rubio. While he may not be directing that, as the coach he should be able to control that. They have underwhelmed for a long time. The playoffs show true coaching ability. I wouldn't say it's this experiment that leads to him being out, but a collection of years.

I think of the Broncos. While the result with OKC won't be the same(championship), they had a really good coach in Fox who couldn't win when they needed. They found his peak. They out him, get a championship caliber coach and win. While it isn't all Donovan, he is allowing them to not play as a team and he really has no "system" to offer. He has had a number of high caliber players and can't do anything with it. He was essentially at his peak in year one.

That was a really good take though. It's not that players can just rock it from the get go, and I never thought Carmelo would really work with them.

All that said... Current climate has to be exciting for Lakers fans. Right now Lebron and PG to Lakers looks as real as it ever could.


----------



## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> and Billy Donovan will 100% help destroy any hope OKC had.


This idea cracks me up...I have read a lot of comments from OKC fans, Jazz fans, and NBA fans in general and many of them have had this same sentiment. The crazy thing is that Donovan's praises were widely being sung not too long ago. As the article from the Oklahomoan stated, "Donovan outcoached Gregg Popovich and Steve Kerr in memorable showdowns two springs ago, but now the Jazz's Quin Snyder is striking all the proper notes." How soon fans forget.

The question I have for any fan with these same thoughts is how do you know it is Donovan who is the problem and not the players? I mean after all, since Snyder has been coach of the Jazz, Donovan has won more games than Snyder 150-139. Donovan was also the coach who reached 100 wins the fastest after moving from the college game to the pros, and he won 2 championships in college to Quin's zero. So, how much is it because/despite of the players?

Coaches get way too much credit and way too much blame...in the case of OKC, their GM/Owner whoever should take some blame for haphazardly and in a knee-jerk reaction grab both Carmelo and George in hopes of making it all work. To me, they were a better team last year without them! And, Donovan certainly took a lot of credit for meshing Durant and Westbrook his first year...


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Kane Fitzgerald, if you don’t know that name you likely will by the end of the night. He will be officiating this game. He may be better know as the only official who has ejected Lebron in his career. Jazz have not faired well when he’s officiaring, he seems to favor home teams, and makes some absolute terrible calls at times. He’s certainly has an ejection happy whistle, and won’t be a super lenient when things start to get chippy. I hate to bring up refs like this and complain prior to a game, but this dude is a seriously tough ref to have against you if that’s how he goes. You’ll be able to tell very quickly what kind of a night it’s going to be with him. The Jazz game I went to this season he ejected Karl Anthony Towns for just yelling “call that ****”. I get people don’t like to use the refs as an excuse, but this guy can make a real difference in a game.


----------



## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> The Jazz game I went to this season he [Fitzgerald] ejected Karl Anthony Towns for_ just _yelling "call that ****".


Just?

Wait a minute...

...didn't Towns already have 1 technical foul?
Did Towns look directly at the official, and yell an obsenity? (after already getting 1 T)?

How can you say "just"? Towns deserved that 2nd T. And, not only did he deserve it, he should have been smart enough to know the situation and not tempt a referee known for quick ejections to send him packing.

Now, as for tonight's game: if you [1-I] understand Fitzgerald's tendencies, don't you think that the Jazz (and OKC) also understand those tendencies? For this match-up, I'll once again take the Jazz. We have much better composure, and keep control of our emotions, just like in game 4. If anyone should be worried about a referee making a quick call, it should be OKC.


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## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> Just?
> 
> Wait a minute...
> 
> ...didn't Towns already have 1 technical foul?
> Did Towns look directly at the official, and yell an obsenity? (after already getting 1 T)?
> 
> How can you say "just"? Towns deserved that 2nd T. And, not only did he deserve it, he should have been smart enough to know the situation and not tempt a referee known for quick ejections to send him packing.
> 
> Now, as for tonight's game: if you [1-I] understand Fitzgerald's tendencies, don't you think that the Jazz (and OKC) also understand those tendencies? For this match-up, I'll once again take the Jazz. We have much better composure, and keep control of our emotions, just like in game 4. If anyone should be worried about a referee making a quick call, it should be OKC.


If you think that's worthy of a second technical compared to reactions that don't even get guys a first technical, I can't help you. Theres not many refs that would have ejected him for it, I was right there, it was far less than plenty of reactions that never get a T.

And tendencies? The dude doesn't have tendencies he just makes calls in almost every game that don't make sense or just aren't there. He is a really questionable ref and the Jazz record and free throw records are pretty lopsided against them when he officiates so I guess they haven't figured his tendencies out good enough.


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## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> If you think that's worthy of a second technical compared to reactions that don't even get guys a first technical, I can't help you.


Let's be clear on a few things:



NBA Rules said:


> *Section V--Conduct
> *
> a. An official may assess a technical foul, without prior warning, at any time.
> b. A maximum of two technicals for unsportsmanlike acts may be assessed any player.
> d. A technical foul shall be assessed for unsportsmanlike tactics such as:
> (1) Disrespectfully addressing an official
> (3) Overt actions indicating resentment to a call
> (4) Use of profanity
> 
> e. Cursing or blaspheming an official shall not be considered the only cause for imposing technical fouls. Running tirades, continuous criticism or griping may be sufficient cause to assess a technical. Excessive misconduct shall result in ejection from the game.


Remind me, what did Towns do again? Let's look back:
1. Disrespectfully addressed an official. Check.
2. Overt actions indicating resentment to a call. Check.
3. Use of profanity. Check.

This was all _after_ getting T#1 for an elbow to Crowder's head.

Fitzgerald was justified in his actions. Towns was not.


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## caddis8

RandomElk16 said:


> This is over the top.
> 
> Silver actually does a great job. He is a far contrast than a guy like Goodell or Stern.
> 
> Stern was all about power. What he said goes. Silver has found a great balance in having a good relationship with the owners and the players.
> 
> Just because you are a Jazz fan and Russ didn't get suspended, doesn't make him the worse. The Jazz are in control of this series, and Billy Donovan will 100% help destroy any hope OKC had. Things will be fine - it's not a conspiracy.


Not sure that's over the top. Silver has loosened the grip of power that Stern had, which I agree with.

Here's my gripe with Silver- he's let the balance of the league go a little further. He has advocated for a higher age limit to enter the league to 20 rather than 18.

Not that I'm saying that Silver is directly responsible for the NCAA basketball mess, but he certainly has had something to do with it. He was with Stern for negotiations. Because of the age limit at 19 (and he pushed for 20), we now have 1 and done players, agents running amok, apparel execs arrested, college coaches being bribed (or bribing). This has a lot to do with the NBA and it's rules, and Adam Silver is the commissioner of those rules.

He does have a better relationship with the players association, but that isn't hard. Stern didn't care about that one bit. Silver was Stern's protege and key negotiator in the labor agreement.

Silver has better public relations, yes. But the running of the league, the double standard of stars vs non stars (throw Jazz out of the conversation) and the way they are treated, College ball situation, is not better, it's much worse. Oh, and the owners of the league made an addtional $3 billion (with a b) off the latest labor agreement.

I'm a basketball fan. and the state of basketball is not good. High school kids (and younger) are watching the antics of the super stars throwing tizzy's, flopping, arguing and berating officials because they don't get their way, loose application of rules, and the list goes on.

Steven Adams interview with ESPN was one of the most refreshing things I've read in a long time. He was spot on.


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## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> Let's be clear on a few things:
> 
> Remind me, what did Towns do again? Let's look back:
> 1. Disrespectfully addressed an official. Check.
> 2. Overt actions indicating resentment to a call. Check.
> 3. Use of profanity. Check.
> 
> This was all _after_ getting T#1 for an elbow to Crowder's head.
> 
> Fitzgerald was justified in his actions. Towns was not.


Justified does not mean any other ref would have ejected him, I'm done arguing this.


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## 3arabians

Im with Random I think Donavon is helping the jazz. I think he is a good coach, just not with this team. I dont think he has any control of the big 3. Especially Westbrook. Any coach that puts up with a player boxing out their own team member or blocking their shot so they can pad their rebound stats and average a triple double needs to be fired. That is a betrayal of the team aspect of basketball and it is the coaches responsibility to maintain that integrity. IMO. 

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## #1DEER 1-I

3arabians said:


> Im with Random I think Donavon is helping the jazz. I think he is a good coach, just not with this team. I dont think he has any control of the big 3. Especially Westbrook. Any coach that puts up with a player blocking out their own team member or blocking their shot so they can pad their rebound stats and average a triple double needs to be fired. That is a betrayal of the team aspect of basketball and it is the coaches responsibility to maintain that integrity. IMO.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Small market probs....Westbrook resigned you give him all the control. It's not about a coach letting it happen IMO, it's about a franchise that kept the wrong player and now they can't afford to piss him off or lose him.


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## 3arabians

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Small market probs....Westbrook resigned you give him all the control. It's not about a coach letting it happen IMO, it's about a franchise that kept the wrong player and now they can't afford to piss him off or lose him.


Thats true and it does bring the big picture into view. However it doesnt change the fact that westbrook is a self-absorbed freakshow and he is just plain bad for basketball. His athletic abilities are amazing, but he is no Oscar Robertson. Its a shame that he matched Oscars accomplishment and embarrassing that he did it twice in a row the way he plays.

Youre right - it is a problem that is bigger than Billy. Its a business and Billy is likely protecting his income by not standing up to Westbrooks actions. Wont matter for Billy though if they lose. He will likely get fired either way.

Go Jazz!!!

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## #1DEER 1-I

Well, although t doesn’t matter much now there’s your ridiculous call of the night by Kane Fitzgerald. That 4th foul on Gobert is a prime example of a call that could screw a team in a close game. Luckily OKC has no interest in coming back here for a game 6.


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## 3arabians

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Well, although t doesn't matter much now there's your ridiculous call of the night by Kane Fitzgerald. That 4th foul on Gobert is a prime example of a call that could screw a team in a close game. Luckily OKC has no interest in coming back here for a game 6.


Ha! Thats funny. As soon as they ran the replay I thought to myself "that right there must have been 1-Is ref" &#129315;

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## #1DEER 1-I

3arabians said:


> Ha! Thats funny. As soon as they ran the replay I thought to myself "that right there must have been 1-Is ref" &#129315;
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Now you know him...and since that call the game has changed dramatically.


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## #1DEER 1-I

I told you you’d know him by the end of tonight. He changed the game with that 4th foul on Gobert. The Jazz melted away, but he started the avalanche.


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## #1DEER 1-I

After a meltdown like that, they almost deserve to lose the series.


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## 2full

They started celebrating when they got the 25 point lead in the 3rd. 
Just a tad bit early maybe......:neutral:


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## RandomElk16

Wow!

What a night for basketball!


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## 3arabians

Ugh, that hurt. Heckuva missed opportunity right there. I hate it cuz it really comes down to fridays home game now. I think we will be ready yo play but we lost a lot of momentum with that choke last night. 

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## PBH

That was classic Westbrook. That's the game that most of us feared with this matchup against OKC. That's also the type of half that just might get OKC the confidence they need for Friday's game.

The Jazz have completed exploited OKC utilizing Carmelo. When Donovan finally pulled Carmelo in the second half, Westbrook was able to take control and do what he does best. We'll see what adjustments are made tomorrow night. I'm hoping Carmelo is more involved...


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## wyoming2utah

The game changed when Gobert picked up his 4th foul. The thing that irked me was that it was the same exact kind of mistake that Donovan was criticized for in game 4--Gobert was in the game when he should have been on the bench. With the amount of time that was left in the third quarter and the lead the Jazz had, Gobert should not have been in the game. To make matters worse, when Gobert did get that 4th foul, Favors was left in the game to pick up his fourth foul too. If Donovan was the reason OKC was down 3-1 prior to last night, Snyder should be the reason the Jazz didn't finish them off last night.

I still think the Jazz will finish them off....but, it should be already done!


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## #1DEER 1-I

wyoming2utah said:


> The game changed when Gobert picked up his 4th foul. The thing that irked me was that it was the same exact kind of mistake that Donovan was criticized for in game 4--Gobert was in the game when he should have been on the bench. With the amount of time that was left in the third quarter and the lead the Jazz had, Gobert should not have been in the game. To make matters worse, when Gobert did get that 4th foul, Favors was left in the game to pick up his fourth foul too. If Donovan was the reason OKC was down 3-1 prior to last night, Snyder should be the reason the Jazz didn't finish them off last night.
> 
> I still think the Jazz will finish them off....but, it should be already done!


No way. This is on the players who completely melted away when Gobert left the floor. As important and good as Gobert is, if you can't play enough defense for like 2 minutes and make them quit you deserve to lose. The players had a 25 point cushion. You shouldn't be giving that back ever. They turned the ball over, jacked up horrible shots, and looked like a chicken with its head cut off. They stopped defending and ran run out the shot clock iso ball or turnovers every trip down the floor. Then to add to the meltdown Snyder puts Gobert back in so he can pick up his 5th foul on a dumb obvious hook to add to the meltdown. Players lost this game.


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## MuscleWhitefish

#1DEER 1-I said:


> They stopped defending and ran run out the shot clock iso ball or turnovers every trip down the floor. .


I agree there is no reason to have to wait for Mitchell to get the ball at half court to start the offense.

Just move the ball and let him play within the offense.

I would have put in the corner being face guarded by PG and made PG the help defender on the P&R.

Or ran PG through every screen imaginable to slow him down on the other end.


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## #1DEER 1-I

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I agree there is no reason to have to wait for Mitchell to get the ball at half court to start the offense.
> 
> Just move the ball and let him play within the offense.
> 
> I would have put in the corner being face guarded by PG and made PG the help defender on the P&R.
> 
> Or ran PG through every screen imaginable to slow him down on the other end.


Love Mitchell, but yeah he looked as bad as anyone during that landslide. There are times he gets the ball and it just stops. He'll run the clock down to 5-6 seconds to shoot and shoot an off the bounce 3. He had about 4 bad shots in a row as the lead went from 20....to 12......to 8.....and gone. It's easy to forgive him, he's a 21 year old rookie and has a lot on his shoulders. He looked like a rookie for that stretch last night. It's just incredible how much everything relies on Gobert and how important he is. There's no way you should fall apart like that when he comes off the floor. Inexcusable for everyone else or there. Rudy getting himself a couple of those fouls was also on him though and dumb decisions on his part. That hook was something they just couldn't withstand at that point.


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## RandomElk16

Is this the thread where everyone talked about humble professional Mitchell.. The guy who told OKC fans he will "see them next year" - implying they are winning the next game?

Keep in mind - I am 100% ok with this. You need this mentality. I am simply pointing out what you guys said about him. Superstars need to have a little bit of this ego/swagger, as we see with many of them. Donovan is on his way (not yet) to being a superstar... he needs to have some fire to do that/stay there.


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## RandomElk16

caddis8 said:


> Not sure that's over the top. Silver has loosened the grip of power that Stern had, which I agree with.
> 
> Here's my gripe with Silver- he's let the balance of the league go a little further. He has advocated for a higher age limit to enter the league to 20 rather than 18.
> 
> Not that I'm saying that Silver is directly responsible for the NCAA basketball mess, but he certainly has had something to do with it. He was with Stern for negotiations. Because of the age limit at 19 (and he pushed for 20), we now have 1 and done players, agents running amok, apparel execs arrested, college coaches being bribed (or bribing). This has a lot to do with the NBA and it's rules, and Adam Silver is the commissioner of those rules. He didn't implement those rules. Have you been readin the news lately? They are likely doing away with it... Also, you can't hold the NBA commissioner responsible for how we let the NCAA exploit athletes, in every single sport, for their own monetary gain. That's what happens when you force individuals to partake in a system that is ran FOR PROFIT by others. The NCAA is a mess, like all our education systems, and that isn't one commissioners fault. You want to talk about a corrupt group of leaders, look no further than the board of the NCAA. Age and development is a hard thing for both players and the league to figure out. Some players say they learn a ton in college about the game. The draft would be a lot more confusing as college helps provide clarity. I am opposed to forcing them to go make money for another organization and risk ruining their future though. I also think that if you declare for the draft, and aren't drafted, you should be allowed back in school. That's for another convo....
> 
> He does have a better relationship with the players association, but that isn't hard. Stern didn't care about that one bit. Silver was Stern's protege and key negotiator in the labor agreement. He has publicly endorsed causes they care about and supported their platform. Him . making a statement about "shut up and dribble" is something stern never would have
> 
> Silver has better public relations, yes. But the running of the league, the double standard of stars vs non stars (throw Jazz out of the conversation) and the way they are treated, College ball situation, is not better, it's much worse. Oh, and the owners of the league made an addtional $3 billion (with a b) off the latest labor agreement. The players also can too. Who put the cap on player salaries? Jordan had a higher paying season 20 years ago than any of LeBrons. Also, Stern would have never kicked an owner out. That took a lot for Silver to not only move Sterling out, but to also have the public support (even if it was fake) of other owners. He wasn't afraid to give Mark Cuban a 500K fine either.
> 
> I'm a basketball fan. and the state of basketball is not good. High school kids (and younger) are watching the antics of the super stars throwing tizzy's, flopping, arguing and berating officials because they don't get their way, loose application of rules, and the list goes on. That's weird since the NBA continues to grow and it is actually the NFL that is dwindling. Again, most these rules for flopping were before Silver. People love Curry and he often shoots for the foul. People on this same thread talk about how Tech crazy the refs our. Officiating will always be a hard job in NFL and NBA due to how many rules and judgement calls their are. Baseball and Hockey are lucky. I won't fault him for that (Jordan pushed off lol)
> 
> Steven Adams interview with ESPN was one of the most refreshing things I've read in a long time. He was spot on.


Again, many things you are pointing to are actually Stern. We have a pretty crazy climate right now in the United States. That absolutely carries over to our professional sports. I think Silver is navigating that as good as you can, while Goodell is failing and Stern would have also. Silver has tough obstacles and he is crushing it.


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## wyoming2utah

#1DEER 1-I said:


> No way. This is on the players who completely melted away when Gobert left the floor. As important and good as Gobert is, if you can't play enough defense for like 2 minutes and make them quit you deserve to lose. The players had a 25 point cushion. You shouldn't be giving that back ever. They turned the ball over, jacked up horrible shots, and looked like a chicken with its head cut off. They stopped defending and ran run out the shot clock iso ball or turnovers every trip down the floor. Then to add to the meltdown Snyder puts Gobert back in so he can pick up his 5th foul on a dumb obvious hook to add to the meltdown. Players lost this game.


Two minutes? Gobert was out for about half of the third quarter and about half of the fourth. If I remember right, he picked up foul #4 with about 9 minutes left in the third quarter and #5 with about 3. He played only 30 minutes (compared to 34 when the Jazz drubbed OKC the prior game and the starters sat the last few minutes of the game and 41 minutes in game 2!). The Jazz defense is based on having a rim protector. When Gobert left the game, Westbrook and George had an easy time getting to the rim and finishing. Remember also that it wasn't just Gobert; Favors also was in serious foul trouble and had to be sat in favor of Udoh. IN fact, Favors was in the game to get #5 when Gobert was sitting with 5. Neither should have been in the game when they picked up their 5th fouls. Obviously, Westbrook and George made some big shots as well and got hot. But, it all started when Gobert left the game because of foul trouble that could have and should have been avoided with substitutions. Also, when Gobert returned in the 4th quarter, he was so worried about getting #6 that his defense was nowhere near as effective. Had foul #5 been avoided by having him on the bench, he would have been better down the stretch!

It is funny how Billy Donovan was criticized for leaving Westbrook in the game and allowing him to pick up #4, but when Gobert is put back into the game and picked up his #5, it is Gobert's fault. Sorry, but neither of them should have been in the game when those bad fouls happened.

Part of the reason the Jazz began jacking up bad shots was because Snyder was putting Mitchell in ISO situations by design. He was having who ever Abrines, or Carmelo when he finally checked back in, screen for Mitchell so Mitchell could take that defender one-on-one on the switch. That was coaching. I hate to tell you guys, but Snyder did a poor job in that game from a coaching standpoint every much as Donovan has done in prior games. What adjustments did Snyder make when Westbrook got hot? Did you see any double teams? Did the Jazz try to keep the ball out of his hands? Did they change anything when he started drilling shots?


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## Catherder

wyoming2utah said:


> Two minutes? Gobert was out for about half of the third quarter and about half of the fourth. If I remember right, he picked up foul #4 with about 9 minutes left in the third quarter and #5 with about 3. He played only 30 minutes (compared to 34 when the Jazz drubbed OKC the prior game and the starters sat the last few minutes of the game and 41 minutes in game 2!). The Jazz defense is based on having a rim protector. When Gobert left the game, Westbrook and George had an easy time getting to the rim and finishing. Remember also that it wasn't just Gobert; Favors also was in serious foul trouble and had to be sat in favor of Udoh. IN fact, Favors was in the game to get #5 when Gobert was sitting with 5. Neither should have been in the game when they picked up their 5th fouls. Obviously, Westbrook and George made some big shots as well and got hot. But, it all started when Gobert left the game because of foul trouble that could have and should have been avoided with substitutions. Also, when Gobert returned in the 4th quarter, he was so worried about getting #6 that his defense was nowhere near as effective. Had foul #5 been avoided by having him on the bench, he would have been better down the stretch!
> 
> It is funny how Billy Donovan was criticized for leaving Westbrook in the game and allowing him to pick up #4, but when Gobert is put back into the game and picked up his #5, it is Gobert's fault. Sorry, but neither of them should have been in the game when those bad fouls happened.
> 
> Part of the reason the Jazz began jacking up bad shots was because Snyder was putting Mitchell in ISO situations by design. He was having who ever Abrines, or Carmelo when he finally checked back in, screen for Mitchell so Mitchell could take that defender one-on-one on the switch. That was coaching. I hate to tell you guys, but Snyder did a poor job in that game from a coaching standpoint every much as Donovan has done in prior games. What adjustments did Snyder make when Westbrook got hot? Did you see any double teams? Did the Jazz try to keep the ball out of his hands? Did they change anything when he started drilling shots?


Yes, Snyder made a calculated gamble and it didn't work out. However, throughout the season, Gobert has been able to remain relatively foul free, (I don't think he fouled out more than 1 time) and it was obvious the difference he made on the court. With the lead that it was, one could easily argue that it was a risk worth taking to capitalize on a close out opportunity and put him in to stop the run. Conversely, if Gobert sat the entire 3rd with 4 fouls, the net result at the end of three would likely have been slightly worse, but he would have been more effective in the fourth. It is far from certain that it cost them the game. Utah's offense execution in the 4th was spotty at best.

With regards to Mitchell, the adjustment to counter switches to get him on Abrines was mostly done in the fourth and it had some initial success. During the 3rd quarter run, he was guarded more by George and I would agree that he did take some ill advised shots, as did Crowder and others. The turnovers killed us too. Bottom line to me is Mitchell and our team blinked and we go on. Learning experience.

OKC showed they can be as talented as advertised, but we are by no means toast either.


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## wyoming2utah

Catherder said:


> Yes, Snyder made a calculated gamble and it didn't work out.


Yes. That is what is so stupid about the blame game. Donovan did the same thing and talked about that gamble in the post game interview of game 4. At some point you have to trust your players to make the right choices...sometimes they simply don't. This is the point I have been trying to make. Donovan is getting too much of the blame for the woes of the Thunder and not been given enough credit for their successes. On the flip side, Snyder is getting too much credit for the Jazz success and the players not enough.

It is always easier to coach from the stands, the couch, or in retrospect. Snyder has been given tons of credit for his work with the Jazz and deservedly so; Donovan has been widely panned for the inconsistencies of the Thunder probably not entirely deserved.


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## caddis8

We'll agree to disagree and that's totally fair. Silver and Stern are basically identical in my mind, because Stern groomed Silver. Silver did the negotiations in all of the bargaining agreements. PR, way better. NBA knows that college kids are trying to get there and are doing everything they can to get the best talent in the pipeline so they can cash in on them. Silver has had two CBAs to change that age and hasn't. He is now being forced to because of the mess of the NCAA (he isn't directly responsible, but the league shoulders a lot of ressponsibility in this in my opinion, you're free to disagree with me). Good discussion though.


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## #1DEER 1-I

RandomElk16 said:


> Is this the thread where everyone talked about humble professional Mitchell.. The guy who told OKC fans he will "see them next year" - implying they are winning the next game?
> 
> Keep in mind - I am 100% ok with this. You need this mentality. I am simply pointing out what you guys said about him. Superstars need to have a little bit of this ego/swagger, as we see with many of them. Donovan is on his way (not yet) to being a superstar... he needs to have some fire to do that/stay there.


He now has something to back up. A reporter said his follow up comment was "we ain't coming back to this s***". Obviously OKCs players will see and be asked about this. Him being a rookie, win a comment like that, may very well get PG and Westbrook a little more drive for this game. OKC has tried to remove Ingles, tried to stop Gobert, and tried to stop Rubio. Games 3 and 4 they did not pressure Donovan much, and last night they made some adjustments that took away passing lanes and made him uncomfortable. They just haven't had a concentrated effort to stop him....that may change tomorrow. I just don't see those comments sitting well with a guy like Westbrook or any veterans on the opposing team. Now he's without a doubt good enough to back his talk up, but this will add a little to OKCs drive.


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## Kwalk3

Posting here for coverage. Just wanted to make sure H&D didn't miss that the Jazz won last night.

Been a great year. Hope they can steal a game in this next series. 

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