# What the hell am I doing wrong?!?



## benjicunney (Jul 30, 2008)

Been grouse hunting twice now this year and haven't seen a single bird. Let me restate that, since I have lived in utah (4 years) I have never seen a forest grouse! Apparently, I'm doing something wrong. I've been hunting anywhere from 7500 to 9000 feet and always concentrating where there are pines and aspens with berries, usually where there is a close water source also. I don't have a dog because of the fact that I live in an apartment, so that makes things a bit harder. However, I grew up hunting these and sage grouse in Idaho and almost always got into grouse (home court advantage?) without a dog, though the times I did hunt with a dog it was more productive. 

What am I doing wrong? Do any of you have any tips on how to best hunt them without a dog, and where to focus my efforts. I love these birds, and it was the first animal I ever shot. I'm moving to Colorado this December, so I'd really like to get some good hunting in before I leave the great state of Utah. Gotta give it another shot before I redirect my focus on the Chukar season.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

You're parting your hair the wrong way.... :lol: Just kidding... don't feel too bad man, its happening to a lot of us apparently.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

There is a ton of food, cover and water this year. My $.02's is that the birds are not concentrated and are spread out more then the last few years.

So...miles and miles and then more miles of foot time is needed. I have gotten into birds every time out so far this season (I think 5x's now). 

Get a map out...go explore area's off the beaten path and areas that you don't find someone talking about on these boards. 

The birds are where you find them....just takes time and effort.

Good luck!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

Some areas hold birds and some do not. A good way to know if birds are in an area is to drive along a dirt road early in the morning. If they are in the area you should catch a few on the roads in the morning.

You can also walk the roads and look for tracks (or other peoples shells).

The best thing though is to go with someone who has a dog. Those noses make a big difference.

I have been out twice this year and have seen 20 or so birds, fired 2 shots, and missed both.
I am glad I at least have a ptarmigan and some doves taken care of or I would be feeling pretty bad about myself.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Having a dog makes a huge difference. Most grouse are dumb birds that just sit there and watch you walk by (maybe that is smart). They can also be hard to see when roosting up in trees. It would probably surprise most to know how many we just walk by and never see.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

The grouse I've seen this year have been in some really thick cover. I would not have found a single bird this year without my dogs.


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## jason.little (Sep 22, 2008)

I have a dog and haven't found any. (probably cuz my dog is looking for chukar).


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## Rabbit_slayer16 (Oct 18, 2007)

gdog said:


> There is a ton of food, cover and water this year. My $.02's is that the birds are not concentrated and are spread out more then the last few years.
> 
> So...miles and miles and then more miles of foot time is needed. I have gotten into birds every time out so far this season (I think 5x's now).
> 
> ...


+1.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

I am with ya! It hurts more because I have dogs! Not only that I have seen Grouse in these spots while hunting big game!!!!! 

Who said Miles and Miles? Well my feet are sore and me dogs are.... well not to tired I guess but I am!


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Try gong to the exact same areas without a gun :lol: I always see loads of game that way!! :wink:


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

I think it's funny that people come on here and say that they HAVE to have dogs to find grouse. Many of you that grouse hunt have no idea what you are doing. Do your dogs climb trees??? 
90% of the grouse I find are sitting up high in Pine trees, not moving a muscle. How on earth is your dog going to get a grouse out of a tree???
Most of the time I will walk circles around the tree and look through my binos to find them. In the early morning I usually see some on the ground, but even when flushed they head for the trees.

So why aren't you shooting grouse??? You probably aren't looking in the trees very well.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2008)

In my experience a dog is not necessary, or even all that helpful except for companionship, when hunting Blues because they tend to be easier to spot on the ground or in the trees, and will let you get pretty close before they flush. Ruffs, on the other hand, behave more like Huns or Pheasants, and usually have to be flushed out of thick cover before you see them. They also fly farther and faster, so you only get one shot at them. A good bird dog will definitely improve your success if you are in an area with mostly Ruffs.


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

Yeah, dogs are no help at all. :roll:



















I suppose you don't NEED a dog to hunt grouse but it's pretty darn boring without one. I'd rather shoot a grouse after a flush from my dog than sitting in the top of a tree. Anyone who'd rather hunt without one has never had a good dog. There's more to it than just killing birds.


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

Nor-tah said:


> Try gong to the exact same areas without a gun :lol: I always see loads of game that way!! :wink:


This is true!


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

Ryfly said:


> Anyone who'd rather hunt without one has never had a good dog. There's more to it than just killing birds.


+1

At its worst, it's still a nice walk in great fall weather with man's best friend. There doesn't have to be a bird within miles for me to enjoy that!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

but it sure helps.


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## benjicunney (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, I need to post more about how I suck; the replies are flowing in! Good comments everyone, if anything, I've decided to work a little harder hunting birds. Regardless of whether I've seen birds here, its a blast to get out in the wilderness. 

Any of you hunt chukar without dogs? I tried once last year and saw them, but couldn't get in range to shoot. I've read a crapload about them, and it sounds like you have to work your butt off and get them to fly off cliffs or downhill etc. Anyways, thinking about going to my "spot" this weekend and giving them another attempt this year.


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

cool pics ryfly! you must have one of those tree climbing dogs. i cant seem to find one with good lines, hips, and akc TC (tree climbing) certified.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

Hunting chukar without a dog could be pretty hard. Those birds take off running. If you injure a bird or do not see exactly where it lands you could have a hard time finding the bird assuming you get a shot off in the first place.

here is Ryfly's Abby 









And my Arrow


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## seniorsetterguy (Sep 22, 2007)

HJB said:


> I think it's funny that people come on here and say that they HAVE to have dogs to find grouse. Many of you that grouse hunt have no idea what you are doing. Do your dogs climb trees???
> 90% of the grouse I find are sitting up high in Pine trees, not moving a muscle. How on earth is your dog going to get a grouse out of a tree???
> Most of the time I will walk circles around the tree and look through my binos to find them. In the early morning I usually see some on the ground, but even when flushed they head for the trees.
> 
> So why aren't you shooting grouse??? You probably aren't looking in the trees very well.


I would only change one thing about this post. I would simply start it with, "In my humble opinion, ...."


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

HJB said:


> I think it's funny that people come on here and say that they HAVE to have dogs to find grouse. Many of you that grouse hunt have no idea what you are doing. Do your dogs climb trees???
> 90% of the grouse I find are sitting up high in Pine trees, not moving a muscle. How on earth is your dog going to get a grouse out of a tree???
> Most of the time I will walk circles around the tree and look through my binos to find them. In the early morning I usually see some on the ground, but even when flushed they head for the trees.
> 
> So why aren't you shooting grouse??? You probably aren't looking in the trees very well.


Well what fun is that? Bird hunting is ONLY fun when with dogs!


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## coolgunnings (Sep 8, 2007)

If you are hunting without a dog, you had better enjoy a walk through the woods with a shotgun in hand. While you are hunting without a dog, you should stop here and there on your walk. Because sometimes when you stop, you can make a grouse nervous enough to flush. 

TAK buy better boots so that you can hike more miles. :shock: :lol:


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Tumblewings:
I have a dog, a fine dog, but as you know I hunt pine and ruffed grouse without it and do just fine. And I love to walk, built for endurance, not for speed.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

tumblingwings said:


> TAK buy better boots so that you can hike more miles. :shock: :lol:


I have good boots! New in fact.... I just want to get some that are SELF PROPELLED!


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

HJB said:


> I think it's funny that people come on here and say that they HAVE to have dogs to find grouse. Many of you that grouse hunt have no idea what you are doing. Do your dogs climb trees???
> 90% of the grouse I find are sitting up high in Pine trees, not moving a muscle. How on earth is your dog going to get a grouse out of a tree???
> Most of the time I will walk circles around the tree and look through my binos to find them. In the early morning I usually see some on the ground, but even when flushed they head for the trees.
> 
> So why aren't you shooting grouse??? You probably aren't looking in the trees very well.


Get a decent dog and you'll see 90% more grouse...on the ground... then looking up in the tree's. Plus your arm won't be sore the next day from throwing rocks at them to make them fly...or worse yet...sore from limbing them.

"Many of you that grouse hunt have no idea what you are doing"....yeah that must be it :?


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## Western Charm (Sep 8, 2007)

I can't imagine anything more fun and rewarding than walking around in the woods, circling and looking in the trees with my binoculars for an entire hunt. I am done with dogs, who needs'em? All my dogs are for sale!!! Cheap!!! Just pm me. 

Robb


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

deadicated1 said:


> cool pics ryfly! you must have one of those tree climbing dogs. i cant seem to find one with good lines, hips, and akc TC (tree climbing) certified.


A good litter is hard to find but they're out there if you do your research! :wink:


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## jason.little (Sep 22, 2008)

Any one with a really good dog would never sell them.


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## Western Charm (Sep 8, 2007)

Actually, I will trade the whole kennel for a decent pair of bino's.

Here's a pic of one of my hounds pointing one of the few ground dwelling Ruffed grouse...Just last night as a matter of fact.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Ah... c'mon. That dog is OBVIOUSLY a waste of time. :lol: Actually, my bootlicker hunted out front for about half my hunt last Saturday and then was like ok dad... I'm going where you tell me and trying to get some birds up but they're just not there. So.... we wound up walking back to the truck together and still didn't see any birds. It was fun lookin though. 8)


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## Western Charm (Sep 8, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> ...It was fun lookin though. 8)


That's good you can see it that way. Cool 8) 8)


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Western Charm said:


> I can't imagine anything more fun and rewarding than walking around in the woods, circling and looking in the trees with my binoculars for an entire hunt. I am done with dogs, who needs'em?


 This is the same reason all you guys have to hire guides to hunt big game. You can't do the work for yourself! You have to have something to do the work for you, wow you guys are great hunters!!!! 
Too bad you guys can't use your little beasts on the deer hunt, they could just chew on the deer's legs until you get there and finish it off.
I shoot plenty of grouse every year by hiking my butt off and doing the work for myself! It's a lot more satisfying to do the work for yourself than to have a dog run around scaring the shiz out of every bird and animal in the forest. 
But like I said before, many of you "have no idea what you are doing". That's the exact reason that you had to buy a guide (Dog) to help you find the grouse.
Have a nice day!


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## coolgunnings (Sep 8, 2007)

TAK said:


> tumblingwings said:
> 
> 
> > TAK buy better boots so that you can hike more miles. :shock: :lol:
> ...


When you find those self propelled boots, let me know. Because I need a pair too.


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## seniorsetterguy (Sep 22, 2007)

HJB said:


> Western Charm said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine anything more fun and rewarding than walking around in the woods, circling and looking in the trees with my binoculars for an entire hunt. I am done with dogs, who needs'em?
> ...


Lazy, clueless, dog-loving hunters UNITE!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

HJB, do you like Black Gold? You sound like a good bird finder. Do you retrieve? TAK, I think he might perform well in NSTRA trials!!!


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

seniorsetterguy said:


> HJB said:
> 
> 
> > Western Charm said:
> ...


-Do I like "Black Gold"? Only the kind that goes in my truck
-Yes, I am a good bird finder, I don't need someone or something else to find them for me.
-Do I retrieve? Yes, I retrieve my own birds (Not very hard to go and pick a bird up)
-Would I perform well in NSTRA trials? No, but your mom might


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## jason.little (Sep 22, 2008)

Picking up a dead bird is easy, picking up a lame bird is hard.


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## utbowhntr (Sep 11, 2007)

I have hunted them without a dog, but it has been a few years since I have been after them. i always got into them up Farmington Canyon back behind the towers. Thick though and lots of water and berries, but the grouse are there. I find alot in the spruce trees so keep your eyes peeled up high. Just have to improvise I guess when you don't have a dog and you will have to do alot of walking. Good luck!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

Your comparison of bird dogs and guides does not have much merit. If you train the guide and teach it how to do its job why would you feel guilty for using it?

Dogs are great and I would much rather hunt all day with my pup and watch her find one bird than go on a few hour hunt alone and take my limit.

It is about the dog and watching them work for us, the birds found along the way are just bonuses.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Texscala said:


> It is about the dog and watching them work for us, the birds found along the way are just bonuses.


Pretty much... I used to be all about walking up birds without a dog because I knew I could get limits that way.... just putting out a lot of time and effort. However, knowing the work I put in with teaching my boy to fetch and heel and all the other little stuff we worked on over the years I've had him is what makes it fun for me. It doesn't always come together but thats another nice thing about a dog... they don't give a rats behind if you find birds or not but on the walk back to the truck you've got better company than most other hunters you could run with. I don't know that I'll ever hunt birds without a dog again just because the company and how happy my dog is just to be there with me is what makes it worth getting up and going any more. It certainly isn't about the number I bring to hand like it used to be. The look on Buddy's face when he's proudly delivering a bird to hand, the way he comes and huddles into me when we take a break on a cold windblown ridge, the nap we took in the pines on Saturday, and the way he is so eager to do whatever it takes to make the boss happy.... its all stuff I was missing out on when I was wearing out boots by myself trying to be the quick limit hero.


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## jason.little (Sep 22, 2008)

Can I Get an AMEN!!!!??


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

jason.little said:


> Picking up a dead bird is easy, picking up a lame bird is hard.


+1 But I suppose you don't have to worry about that much when you shoot them off of a tree branch.


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## Rabbit_slayer16 (Oct 18, 2007)

Texscala said:


> Your comparison of bird dogs and guides does not have much merit. If you train the guide and teach it how to do its job why would you feel guilty for using it?
> 
> Dogs are great and I would much rather hunt all day with my pup and watch her find one bird than go on a few hour hunt alone and take my limit.
> 
> It is about the dog and watching them work for us, the birds found along the way are just bonuses.


+1.. I really dont mind to much now when i go out hunting and don't get any or just get one. The dogs are great to watch work. And to tell you the truth. i would not have found one bird yesterday with out my dog. i walked with in about 3 feet of them in thick cover and had no idea till my dog went into it and pointed them out. Get behind a good dog and you will change your mind


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## firedawg (Dec 20, 2007)

I have to agree on using the dog. I had no hunting dog last year and I did shoot birds on about every outing, not always a limit but killed birds. This year I have a gsp with me, I trained him somewhat myself, while he is not the perfect dog,(yet) I love watching him smell and point up trees and kicking birds up. He loves it too and its an experience I love having. All he wants to do is work for me amd thats his reward. I have noticed also there are birds I would probably not see or know they were there if he didnt have such a good nose. But then again so far I have not bagged as many birds as last year at this point, but I am glad I have my dog and I wouldnt change it for nothing.....hooray for hunting dogs!!!


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

HJB said:


> This is the same reason all you guys have to hire guides to hunt big game. You can't do the work for yourself! You have to have something to do the work for you, wow you guys are great hunters!!!!
> Too bad you guys can't use your little beasts on the deer hunt, they could just chew on the deer's legs until you get there and finish it off.
> I shoot plenty of grouse every year by hiking my butt off and doing the work for myself! It's a lot more satisfying to do the work for yourself than to have a dog run around scaring the shiz out of every bird and animal in the forest.
> But like I said before, many of you "have no idea what you are doing". That's the exact reason that you had to buy a guide (Dog) to help you find the grouse.
> Have a nice day!


I am sorry but this guy can't be serious...............he is jerking your chain.....No one would be that utterly *"STUPID"* That is a good one HJB. :lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way I have never paid any one to take me hunting and just so you know my dogs have never cooked me a meal or actually taken me to a hunting spot.....The real sad part about these comments is that some one is ignorant about how well a "good" dog can increase the enjoyment of your bird hunting experince!


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Texscala said:


> Dogs are great and I would much rather hunt all day with my pup and watch her find one bird than go on a few hour hunt alone and take my limit.
> 
> It is about the dog and watching them work for us, the birds found along the way are just bonuses.


That's great, I can respect that. The thing that got me all "Ruffed" up in the first place was that "Dogs are a must". I don't think dogs are necessary for grouse, but I'm sure they are great company.


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

HJB said:


> Texscala said:
> 
> 
> > Dogs are great and I would much rather hunt all day with my pup and watch her find one bird than go on a few hour hunt alone and take my limit.
> ...


Finally some reason!


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