# Walleye in Bear Lake?



## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

I have a question, 
I was thinking the other day about walleye lakes and I thought "why hasn't bear lake ever been stocked with Walleye?" Isn't it about the right water temperature, size, depth, it has plenty of cisco for eating.....why haven't they? Please explain.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Because they don't belong there. It would be a complete disaster. Bear Lake Cisco are endemic to Bear Lake. Walleyes would wipe them out.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

aside from being a complete disaster....



It wouldn't work. As big as Bear Lake is, it still wouldn't be big enough to sustain a quality walleye sport fishery.

In order for walleye to provide a good sport fishery, you have to have lots, and lots, and lots of acres of water -- and even then, they aren't a great sport fish.


Utah doesn't have a lot of water. It is the 2nd driest state. Our waters need to be maximized for the fish that do the best in them. We shouldn't be wasting our resources on a fish (walleye) that demand so much from the resource. Manage the fishery for the best use. Bear Lake is currently a fine fishery -- why try to screw it up walleye??


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

PBH said:


> aside from being a complete disaster....
> 
> It wouldn't work. As big as Bear Lake is, it still wouldn't be big enough to sustain a quality walleye sport fishery.
> 
> ...


Ditto- and the place has some perch that shouldn't be there


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## harlin (Mar 18, 2012)

Not enough people in this state fish for walleye to harvest enough of them..Plus they just blame the DWR when they don't catch them anyways... Stocking more of them in more places doesn't make them easier to catch. If you want to catch them, go where they are and try to catch them.

Bear Lake is a native cutthroat fishery. Doesn't anybody have pride in our native fish anymore? Or does everybody expect Utah to be minnesota?


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

harlin said:


> does everybody except Utah to be minnesota?


Sure seems like it.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I like Bear Lake very much the way it is except I'd love to get the freaking carp out of there and I'd like a small maria on the east side to break the waves so I can get a boat loaded when you get the 2 min notice that the waves are picking up. I've had several scary moments getting off that lake. I wasn't even a fan of them adding back the Rainbows a few years ago. I can catch rainbows anywhere.


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

By the title I thought someone had caught one of the trashy things out of Bear Lake. 
I about passed out.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

brookieguy1 said:


> By the title I thought someone had caught one of the trashy things out of Bear Lake.
> I about passed out.


That was my thought too. O-|-O

There is no way on earth the DWR or the Feds would sanction such a move with all those endemic fish in there. It could be catastrophic to the fishery and our fishing opportunities if a non native predator like walleye decimated the ciscos, or either or both of the whitefish species found there and nowhere else.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

Just a thought...correct me if i'm wrong (most likely am)
I thought that walleye could barely survive with all the help they can get? And thats why so few places have them, is because they can't compete with other fish. How could they deplete the cisco population? I thought there were TONS of cisco and thats why you can dipnet 30 (limit) a day?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

outdoorser said:


> Just a thought...correct me if i'm wrong (most likely am)
> I thought that walleye could barely survive with all the help they can get? And thats why so few places have them, is because they can't compete with other fish. How could they deplete the cisco population? I thought there were TONS of cisco and thats why you can dipnet 30 (limit) a day?


Walleyes survive just fine. Whether they support a sustainably good fishery (and not screw up existing *good* fisheries) is another matter.

As for depleting the ciscos? (or the whitefish?)

1. Starvation had TONS of chubs in it before walleyes. Now nearly gone.
2. Deer Creek had TONS of perch in it before walleyes. Now, a few here and there but it will never be like it was.
3. Utah lake had TONS of chubs in it before walleyes. Now they are as rare as June suckers in UL. 
4. Yuba? an endless yo-yo of boom and bust.

Maybe walleyes wouldn't decimate the endemic fish, but there is no way in &*^% that any responsible agency will take that chance. And that is how it should be.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

*Ok. Thanks to all for the replies, i think i see the points that have been made and understand why this wouldn't be a good idea.*


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

Hello All,

I just thought I might reply to this question and hopefully provide a little insight to the Bear Lake fishery. 

Bear Lake is one of the least productive lakes in North America and managing the sport fishery there is a balancing act between the predator population and the available prey. The current management strategy requires monitoring of the cisco and sculpin populations to make sure that neither of these species are negatively impacted by the predation from the native cutthroat trout and Bonneville whitefish (they eat sculpin also), as well as the non-native lake trout. Adding an additional predator to the mix would definitely be catastrophic to the existing balance.

Bear Lake is a tough place to manage because of its low inherent productivity. It has taken us a long time to understand the system and manage it effectively.

By the way, since someone mentioned it earlier. We discontinued the stocking of rainbow at Bear Lake several years ago and probably will not start again in the foreseeable future.

Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

According to the DWR website stocking Rainbows was started again in 2010.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/278-rainbow-trout-returning-to-bear-lake.html

The stocking report says they planted 15812 8" rainbows in BL last October.
If you are the cold water coordinator and think there's no rainbows in BL you might want to check this out....

https://dwrapps.utah.gov/fishstocking/Fish?y=2013


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

outdoorser said:


> Just a thought...correct me if i'm wrong (most likely am)
> I thought that walleye could barely survive with all the help they can get? And thats why so few places have them, is because they can't compete with other fish. How could they deplete the cisco population? I thought there were TONS of cisco and thats why you can dipnet 30 (limit) a day?


The limit on Cisco used to be 50 just a few years ago. When the numbers dropped the limit was reduced to ensure they didn't disappear. They're really only caught for a couple of weeks when they come to shore to spawn. There aren't a whole lot of people who go get them. Sure, there's a bunch, but not the number who go after a lot of other species.

Walleyes get absolutely no help in Utah. Once they're planted somewhere they eat themselves out of house and home. They compete very well against any other fish around. Catherder mentioned some really obvious examples in his post.

Lake Powell is the only exception that comes to mind. The Striped Bass overpopulated and are often skinny and underfed. The Walleye there have always been healthy and fat. I don't know how they've found enough to eat while the Stripers have had some tough times, but I suspect it has to do with crawdads, Blue Gills, Crappie, carp and anything else that they can get in their mouths. They haven't eaten themselves out of house and home there, but they've obviously been able to outcompete the Stripers, Smallmouth, Largemouth, Channel Cats, Norhtern Pike, or any other piscivorous species in Powell.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

I will. Thanks for the head's up. We stock something in the neighborhood of 1000 waters. Occasionally I am misinformed about what is going on.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Fishrmn said:


> Lake Powell is the only exception that comes to mind. The Striped Bass overpopulated and are often skinny and underfed. The Walleye there have always been healthy and fat. I don't know how they've found enough to eat while the Stripers have had some tough times, but I suspect it has to do with crawdads, Blue Gills, Crappie, carp and anything else that they can get in their mouths. They haven't eaten themselves out of house and home there, but they've obviously been able to outcompete the Stripers, Smallmouth, Largemouth, Channel Cats, Norhtern Pike, or any other piscivorous species in Powell.
> 
> ⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


Well.....actually....look at the walleye in Powell. When we catch walleye, we consider them healthy, but they are still "small". An 18-20" walleye is a big walleye for Powell right now. Back in the late 70's, the walleye in Powell were absoulutely HUGE!! They looked like they had swallowed watermelons! You don't see that today.

So, even in Lake Powell, which has a lot of water, the walleye struggle and just don't provide a good sport fish. There are a few people that do target them, but the majority of anglers only catch walleye by accident. They just do not provide enough opportunity for the majority of anglers.

If walleye were sterile, I could see utilizing them in certain situation to help fisheries. But they are not, so they shouldn't be stocked anywhere (in my opinion). For those who do like walleye, maybe you should start thinking more outside the box, and look for a sterile alternative? Why not request to see some saugeye (walleye x sauger)?? I imagine they could be a decent perch control species for some lakes (Mill Meadow?) with perch issues, and at the same time be controllable because they are sterile. Catching and eating may even be better than walleye!


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

PBH,

I hadn't heard that about the Walleye in Lake Powell. It makes sense though. Nothing to control their numbers. They'll reach their limit for growth and begin the inevitable decline. Sounds like they've already reached that point. The only good thing about Walleye is they are great table fare.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

so coldwater coord - how about kokanee in smith morehouse?


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi,

I am uncertain about kokanee at Smith Morehouse. I will ask the region if they have any feeling about them there.

Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

ColdWaterCoord said:


> I will. Thanks for the head's up. We stock something in the neighborhood of 1000 waters. Occasionally I am misinformed about what is going on.


I find myself misinformed quite often, I can't even tell the difference between 1963 and 1968 ....
Is it true that the rainbows and the cutthroat are not competing for food in Bear Lake - that they don't eat the same things? I had someone tell me that but not sue I buy it.
That's my only problem with stocking rainbows as I'd rather see the cutthroat then non native fish. The lakers are fun to catch but I'd still rather the advantage be to the cutthroat.


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

I checked with the biologists in the Northern Region regarding kokanee in Smith and Morehouse. Their reply is copied below. I also followed up with rainbow in Bear Lake and it may be that there is an error in the stocking report. Our Hatchery Coordinator (formerly the manager in the Northern Region) believes that rainbow are not stocked in Bear Lake currently. It may be the fish in the stocking report were actually stocked in the Garden City Pond and mis-entered in the database. We are continuing to follow up on this.

On kokanee in Smith and Morehouse:

We hadn't really thought about kokanee in Smith and Morehouse. After thinking about it, I chatted with Chris Penne and Matt McKell. Here are our thoughts about introducing kokanee in Smith and Morehouse Reservoir:

1) The idea has merit as we don't get many rainbows that stay in the reservoir long enough to grow to much size. The only other species we actively stock are grayling. There are some cutthroat and brook trout that come down from the tributaries. We discontinued the stocking of tiger trout about 5 years ago because most left and went up the tributaries. With this in mind, the kokanee could make a good "resident" fish that maintains itself in the reservoir despite high angling pressure.
2) We don't believe that kokanee will get much larger than what we see in Causey and Porcupine - not great size
3) We have a population of cutthroat trout in the tributaries (Red Pine and Smith and Morehouse creeks), but genetic analysis indicates they are all over the board with BCT, BRCT, YCT, and CRCT, so we don't consider them conservation populations.
4) As good managers, we may want to sample to see if we have WD in the tributaries prior to an introduction - if we do, we could potentially increase the spore load in the streams.
5) This would be an introduction of a new species, so we would have to get appropriate Division approval and run it by the USFS as the reservoir and tributaries are on Forest lands.

I hope this helps.

Paul Birdsey
Coldwater Sportfish Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Aren't you already low on Kokanee eggs? Isn't the problem even worse if Jones Hole is closed down?

Please don't take Kokanee away from Flaming Gorge and Strawberry to put them in Smith and Morehouse. We don't need another fishery where we can catch 9" 4th year Kokanee like Causey and Porcupine.


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

I did not include my reply to the region that an introduction into Smith and Morehouse would not occur until after we secure additional sources of kokanee eggs. However, this may occur as early as the next 4-5 years, so it is not too early to start the planning if it is a direction the region wants to go.

Paul


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

RE:



ColdWaterCoord said:


> I also followed up with rainbow in Bear Lake and it may be that there is an error in the stocking report. Our Hatchery Coordinator (formerly the manager in the Northern Region) believes that rainbow are not stocked in Bear Lake currently. It may be the fish in the stocking report were actually stocked in the Garden City Pond and mis-entered in the database. We are continuing to follow up on this.


It did happen. This link may be helpful.

http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=589158;#589158

As for kokes in Smith and Morehouse, I agree with Dodger. I would like to see kokes get going in Fish Lake first, as is already planned.


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks for the information. Apparently it slipped by several of us.

Paul


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

ColdWaterCoord said:


> I did not include my reply to the region that an introduction into Smith and Morehouse would not occur until after we secure additional sources of kokanee eggs. However, this may occur as early as the next 4-5 years, so it is not too early to start the planning if it is a direction the region wants to go.
> 
> Paul


Great news. If you've got the eggs, I'm all for it. Just not at the expense of the 2 great Kokanee waters we have.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Bear Lake is on the downhill, and in my opinion has been for years...it's sad..I fish the lake on average about four times a week and have seen nothing but a nose dive. Cutting the number of fish planted, not allowing rainbows, lake trout WILL be extinct in 20-30 years if this continues...it's the saddest fishery in the state compared to what it was...thank god the lake filled up booming the bait fish populations!

Way to many politics and bull shiz....Bear Lake is NOT a priority...look at stocking reports of the bear lake cutthroat over the last 20 years...

Catching pup Mack's is pretty well over....

The possibility of walleye showing up unwanted is a real possibility...I caught catfish in bear lake this year, how'd they get here?

Carry on


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## ColdWaterCoord (Jun 19, 2012)

Just a followup on the rainbow that showed in the stocking report for Bear Lake in 2013. These fish were stocked into the Gorge, not Bear Lake. It was a data entry error.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Paul


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## CVHunter INACTIVE (May 28, 2013)

30 a day but it can only be done for two weeks or less each year.


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