# .22 ammo?



## #1DEER 1-I

Does anyone know of any website or place I could get .22 ammo? I have looked high and low been in stores, called, I want one or two dang bricks until this stashing hogwash ends .

PM me if need be


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## Wyoming_Winds

Leave Utah and find it. I found some in Washington last Friday and Phoenix today. I have people looking for it for me and bringing it when they travel through this way.


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## DallanC

Good luck when you do find it, retailers are jacking their prices up. Just got the latest Natchez catalog, they show a 525 round bulk pack of Remington .22LR is now $43.65.

I think the days of cheap 22LR are done for.

-DallanC


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## Gee LeDouche

I saw some at a pawnshop a week or two ago for 75 a brick (550 packs). want me to snag them for you?


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## waspocrew

Als in Logan has had it recently. Bought a bucket of 1400 for $70. They had bricks of 500 of the same stuff for $40. I thought the extra $30 was worth almost triple the ammo. Keep looking and you'll eventually find some.


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## Bax*

I recently read a sky is falling report that claims that lead prices will skyrocket in 2014 because the last remaining lead refinery in the states will be closing and will force us to import refined lead from other countries or use recycled lead.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...melting-plant-to-impact-ammunition-production

Cheap ammo may really be a thing of the past if this is true


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## DallanC

Yea I read that as well, its definitely going to have a big impact.


-DallanC


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## #1DEER 1-I

Some articles are saying it will have an effect others are saying it will have none .


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## Critter

In all reallity there is so much lead used here in the US that bullet manufacturing is a very small part of it. Take a look at how many lead acid batteries are manufactured every day and they don't just use a couple of pounds for each battery either. 

If you are still looking for .22 lr rounds Cabelas has some in their online catalog right now and in stock.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Thanks critter 100 is enough


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## #1DEER 1-I

Again critter thanks a bunch, I'm not trying to stock pile, I just want one dang box. The order went through, but does anyone know how ordering ammo online with cabelas works? It didn't ask for drivers license number or anything, do they call you to ensure your old enough?



***they are now sold out


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## Critter

You'll just get a box from Cabela's in a few days with the ammo in it.


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## DallanC

At the VIP event thingy recently they had 100ct CCI's for sale, saw people with 3 boxes each at the register. If they have it, its over at the optics counter (why there, I have no idea). Keep checking that store, they get it in and keep it low key to try and alleviate the "run" on ammo.


-DallanC


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## colorcountrygunner

I've seen Remington's bucket o' bullets waspocrew was talking about on midway for $60. Don't pay people's huge screw jobs on .22 ammo.


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## RobK

I got a 1000 round box at Cal Ranch in Logan a few weeks ago . They ran out within a hour . Only paid 42.00 for the 1000 . Winchester plated . shoots great in my Ruger MKIII and S&W 617 .22 10 shot .


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## Critter

The problem that I have is that Cabelas, Sportsmans, Cal Ranch, Smith & Edwards are all over a 150 mile drive for me to check out if they have any .22 Lr or any other type of ammo. So I do 99.99% of my shopping for it through catalogs if I can't find it locally and with 1-I being in Sevier County he is in the same boat.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> The problem that I have is that Cabelas, Sportsmans, Cal Ranch, Smith & Edwards are all over a 150 mile drive for me to check out if they have any .22 Lr or any other type of ammo. So I do 99.99% of my shopping for it through catalogs if I can't find it locally and with 1-I being in Sevier County he is in the same boat.


Well those. .22 bullets I ordered are on back order now, I got an email from cabelas today . The tentative date to cabelas is December 30.


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## #1DEER 1-I

So is there any ill effects from the .22 shortage on hunters safety yet?


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## Packfish

This thread got me thinking- I had just bought a new storage box for shot guns shells and as I was moving them out of the old one to the new one there were 4 boxes of 525 22LR in there. Price on the box was $8.59-


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## DallanC

Packfish said:


> This thread got me thinking- I had just bought a new storage box for shot guns shells and as I was moving them out of the old one to the new one there were 4 boxes of 525 22LR in there. Price on the box was $8.59-


Sweet find! I have a old brick of Winchester Wildcat about the same price. A brick like that was usually selling for $60 to $80 over the summer on Gunbroker. Heck, put yours up there and sell'em... then go buy a new gun! You wont have any ammo to fire it but what the heck 

-DallanC


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## DallanC

colorcountrygunner said:


> I've seen Remington's bucket o' bullets waspocrew was talking about on midway for $60. Don't pay people's huge screw jobs on .22 ammo.


I follow midways ammo stock via alerts... I've yet to see it come back in stock. All their prices are way outdated it seems.

Natchez lists a bucket like that for over $100 now and they have had them in stock off an on. My gut feeling is thats closer to the new market price than some of these older prices.

-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian

If any of you fine folks have some .22WMR (aka 22 magnum) ammo that you no longer have any need for then let me know. I pick up some when I find what I am looking for which usually means 1-2 boxes a month but if someone has some that they no longer have any use for I would be happy to help you remove it from taking up space.


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## RandomElk16

I grew up on a 10/22. So have my kids. Lately I have considered that I may have to resort to a high velocity pellet gun for plinking. Last 4 550 boxes I bought for 22 were $15 a piece. I am not paying $50.


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## sagebrush

I just rcvd notice that my back order is in and ready for shipping now for 22 wmr's been waiting since January. so things might start looking up for some internet retailers here.


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## DallanC

LostLouisianian said:


> If any of you fine folks have some .22WMR (aka 22 magnum) ammo that you no longer have any need for then let me know. I pick up some when I find what I am looking for which usually means 1-2 boxes a month but if someone has some that they no longer have any use for I would be happy to help you remove it from taking up space.


Cabelas had WMR last night it looked like. A bunch of .22 birdshot (bleh) and a few 50rd boxes of 22LR (at $11 per box of 50).

-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian

DallanC said:


> Cabelas had WMR last night it looked like. A bunch of .22 birdshot (bleh) and a few 50rd boxes of 22LR (at $11 per box of 50).
> 
> -DallanC


I had actually called them yesterday and they didn't have the kind I was looking for. Thanks for the heads up though. I do usually get mine from them and about 1/2 the time I call they have in stock what I am looking for.


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## #1DEER 1-I

$11 a box is quite a bit. Now ammo is turning into fuel, they know they can get the price and people will buy it so that's probably the price for good now . Sad


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## Frisco Pete

On another forum one of the Mods is from Arkansas near the Remington factory in Lonoke. He posted this:



> Remington is adding on to their plant. Not only will it be bigger but all new machines. Talking to one of the managers last week and he said that a new machine will make three times as much as an old machine.
> 
> I asked about .22s and he said they are making 12 million of them A DAY. It won't be long and people will have all the ammo they can hold. Either that or the floor will collapse.


See also: http://http://www.thetruthaboutguns...mington-breaks-ground-on-ammo-plant-expansion

It is unfortunate that .22 is so hard to find, but the hoarder/panic seems to have hit this round that we always took for granted the hardest of all.


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## LostLouisianian

I remember when I was getting bricks for $8 to $9 per brick and there were tons on the store shelves. Glad I bought a few and put them away. Something is not adding up though. If Remington is making 12 million a day and you also have Federal, Winchester and CCI. There should be plenty hitting the shelves every day but yet when my pet store does happen to get bricks in they usually get between 5 and 10 bricks and that is only once every 4-6 weeks. The math is not adding up


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## #1DEER 1-I

LostLouisianian said:


> I remember when I was getting bricks for $8 to $9 per brick and there were tons on the store shelves. Glad I bought a few and put them away. Something is not adding up though. If Remington is making 12 million a day and you also have Federal, Winchester and CCI. There should be plenty hitting the shelves every day but yet when my pet store does happen to get bricks in they usually get between 5 and 10 bricks and that is only once every 4-6 weeks. The math is not adding up


I agree, for god sakes there .22 bullets.


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## gregkdc

I was in the area and needed primers so I stopped into the Provo Sportsman's warehouse. I had my fingers crossed that I might find some .22 ammo because I recently got a new Nikon scope for my Ruger 10/22 and I really want to see how well it shoots.
Anyway moments before I got there an employee had wheeled out a shopping cart full of ammo. When I asked about .22 ammo he said what little bit of .22 ammo they got with the shipment was already gone! The other ammo wasn’t even out of the boxes yet and I had literally missed it by minutes. It was the same answer for about a dozen or more other shoppers all asking the same question at the same time. 

This is the first time I have been there right at delivery time but from the looks of things I think there are some regulars that wait for when the shipment comes in. I can understand a person's frustration and can relate if people make a special trip to the store so they can get what they need, but if people are buying it all up and hoarding it so they can sell it at a profit? Well all I can say is I hope you are ready for when this bubble finally pops and your left holding thousands of rounds of over priced ammo.
P.S I think they had .22 magnum but if they don’t discount guns and ammo just around the corner did. You might want to call for the price.


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## colorcountrygunner

gregkdc said:


> but if people are buying it all up and hoarding it so they can sell it at a profit? Well all I can say is I hope you are ready for when this bubble finally pops and your left holding thousands of rounds of over priced ammo.


I couldn't agree more. I hope all these jerks hoarding ammo to try to make a profit on it end up having it bite them in the butt. Exactly what they deserve.


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## paddler

LostLouisianian said:


> I remember when I was getting bricks for $8 to $9 per brick and there were tons on the store shelves. Glad I bought a few and put them away. Something is not adding up though. If Remington is making 12 million a day and you also have Federal, Winchester and CCI. There should be plenty hitting the shelves every day but yet when my pet store does happen to get bricks in they usually get between 5 and 10 bricks and that is only once every 4-6 weeks. The math is not adding up


I remember those days of cheap 22 ammo. I spent a good deal of time one winter testing a bunch of different types. At that time, the CCI came out on top. I think we paid about $12/brick. We used to hunt cottontails with scoped rifles, trying for head or chest shots. I don't do it much any more, but still have maybe 7000 rounds. Wonder what they're worth today?


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## DallanC

paddler213 said:


> don't do it much any more, but still have maybe 7000 rounds. Wonder what they're worth today?


Around $600. Judging by the 19 bidders on this case:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=380003524

-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian

paddler213 said:


> I remember those days of cheap 22 ammo. I spent a good deal of time one winter testing a bunch of different types. At that time, the CCI came out on top. I think we paid about $12/brick. We used to hunt cottontails with scoped rifles, trying for head or chest shots. I don't do it much any more, but still have maybe 7000 rounds. Wonder what they're worth today?


They're actually worthless and considered hazardous material. I just happen to have experience in disposing of hazardous material and would be happy to take them off your hands and dispose of them in the proper manner.


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## DallanC

DallanC said:


> Around $600. Judging by the 19 bidders on this case:
> 
> http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=380003524
> 
> -DallanC


Good grief! I linked that auction before it ended... the price jumped up another $100. That means your 7000 rounds is worth closer to $800!!!

SIXTY DOLLARS PER BRICK! And 25 bidders pushing it up that high!

-DallanC


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## paddler

I counted. More than 8000 rounds. Looks like I'm making money.


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## DallanC

paddler213 said:


> I counted. More than 8000 rounds. Looks like I'm making money.


If I had that many rounds, I'd keep 2k for myself, sell the other 6k and go buy myself some nice shiny new firearm of some kind.

-DallanC


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## DallanC

Wow, must be the Christmas silly season! People are paying insane prices for .22lr now and I can only imagine they are overpaying to get them as Christmas presents.

Watching auctions ending at over $10 per 50, or over $100 a brick.

:shock:

Its going to be a long time till the 3rd quarter of 2014 sadly.


-DallanC


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## wyogoob

I can't believe the amount of .22 ammo for sale on the internet, especially the gun auction businesses.

Rumor has it local stores are taking their .22 ammo off the shelves and selling it online.

The whole thing is pretty sad.


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## LostLouisianian

wyogoob said:


> I can't believe the amount of .22 ammo for sale on the internet, especially the gun auction businesses.
> 
> Rumor has it local stores are taking their .22 ammo off the shelves and selling it online.
> 
> The whole thing is pretty sad.


Yep I agree when you do the math here with production versus what is available in stores when they get it in, there is a huge disconnect. Something stinks here and it isn't my old shoes.


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## Frisco Pete

From another gun forum here is the classic case of why we can't find .22 ammo, and when we do they are charging incredibly high prices - and getting buyers. The post was titled "*Hit The .22 Mother Load*":



> Stopped in to my LGS Friday and saw they had 325rd boxes of .22LR for $29.99. It is a high price by last year standards but normal by today's standards. The kicker to it is that there was NO limit on it. They had cases stacked 3 feet high. I went home and told my wife about it and she said to go ahead and buy "some", so today I bought 7 boxes to start replenishing my stock a little. Still an awesome find in this day.


My Reply

You are buying 7 boxes of the stuff at a high price like they are going to stop making the stuff forever.
AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A CURRENT SHORTAGE. Everyone has the same mindset.
When, in times past, have you ever bought 7 bricks at once? And bought them at usurious prices?

But they ARE going to make it tomorrow, and the day after that. Remington alone is going to nearly triple production capability by spring.
Buy enough to get you buy for just a bit of winter shooting and let supply and demand lower prices and return availability to normal.
At least if you ever want to pay less than $30 for a 3/5 brick of average .22 LR and want to see it stocked with all-the-time availability.

#########################################

Some other replies to show that not everyone is crazy:



> "Why are prices still so high on 22lr?", you ask....





> $0.11 a round for .22 and your jumping for joy and happy :?
> 
> Wow, when people are willing to gobble .22 up at that price and happy to do it, it will never come back to normal.





> I'm just wondering what the magic number is when people decide that they have enough, and don't have to run out and chase every crappy deal on 22lr...





> Bubbles tend to be self sustaining as demand brings scarcity, which brings panic, which brings even more scarcity, which brings even more panic,etc etc...i
> They come in many forms, and they've caused more than one person previously thought sane to go a little goofy...
> 
> Until the bubble pops, which they always do.


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## DallanC

Frisco Pete said:


> Remington alone is going to nearly triple production capability by spring


Remington's new plant won't even be completed until the end of the 2nd quarter of next year. Who knows how long until they get the machinery and stuff installed after that and get it all up and producing viable ammo.

Don't get me wrong, its a GREAT thing, but realistically we wont see ammo from this new plant until sometime next fall / winter.

-DallanC


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## lifes short

I would like to know what some of you think would be a fair price for say a 500 round brick of .22, if you had extra you wanted to sell?


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## DallanC

I cant speak for anyone else... my boy got a .22LR for Christmas last year so our shooting of 22's has increased dramatically over the summer. So much so, I doubt any price would cause me to sell a spare brick, but if someone needed a 50ct box for youth going through hunters safety I'd donate one. 

I haven't bought any .22LR since Oct 2012 and I don't want to contribute to the shortage by buying something I don't immediately need. I don't have a crazy amount of .22, but enough to last us until it starts showing up in stores and whatnot. I have 1 brick of Winchester Wildcat I bought back when it was under $10... I kind of like to just keep it around unopened, just for nostalgia.

If I were you, I'd talk to Paddler and see what you two can work out. He seems to have the most plentiful stock 

-DallanC


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## wyogoob

The .22 ammo shortage is so bad and has gone on for so long that there's a highway sign in Uinta County Wyoming without a bullet hole in it. 

I'm not making this up.

.


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## Packfish

It was $7.99 /100 in Logan this weekend- actually lasted for about 4 hours


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## colorcountrygunner

DallanC said:


> I cant speak for anyone else... my boy got a .22LR for Christmas last year so our shooting of 22's has increased dramatically over the summer. So much so, I doubt any price would cause me to sell a spare brick, but if someone needed a 50ct box for youth going through hunters safety I'd donate one.
> 
> I haven't bought any .22LR since Oct 2012 and I don't want to contribute to the shortage by buying something I don't immediately need. I don't have a crazy amount of .22, but enough to last us until it starts showing up in stores and whatnot.* I have 1 brick of Winchester Wildcat I bought back when it was under $10... I kind of like to just keep it around unopened, just for nostalgia.
> 
> *If I were you, I'd talk to Paddler and see what you two can work out. He seems to have the most plentiful stock
> 
> -DallanC


Ah, nostalgia is right. I remember when my brother and I first got .22's and my dad would take us out hunting jacks in the sage brush flats by Summit carrying those 50 count boxes of Winchester Wildcat in the cardboard boxes. It was rather tedious taking the shells you didn't shoot out of your pockets and putting them back in the boxes lead side up, primer side up, lead side up, primer side up, and so on and so on. 8)


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## fastcamo

Screw the .22 and the high-jackers, its almost cheaper to shoot the .308


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## DallanC

Latest issue of The Rifleman does an article on where the ammo is all going, they said use has exceeded production at this point, its not the "government" buying it all up, nor hoarders... but people actually buying and shooting the stuff. They have charts showing sales increasing in the years leading up to the shortage, we finally just reached the tipping point.

IMO, they downplay the hoarding angle at least when it comes to 22LR, but it does mean that prices really aren't going to go down much if at all from current levels.


-DallanC


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## Huntoholic

Just on face value, I struggle with the fact that if a company is seeing a sustained increase in sales that they would not increase production to match. The only reason they might not would be if they expected a crash. 

I just find it interesting that in my life time I don't remember having never not seen .22's on the shelf. Never till now. More times then not you could find cases of something somehere. But yet one guy gets elected and boom no more .22's. Production at plants running around the clock, but nothing showing up on the shelf. 

It would be interersting to see the shipping reports for one of these plants running 24/7.


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## Bax*

DallanC said:


> Latest issue of The Rifleman does an article on where the ammo is all going, they said use has exceeded production at this point, its not the "government" buying it all up, nor hoarders... but people actually buying and shooting the stuff. They have charts showing sales increasing in the years leading up to the shortage, we finally just reached the tipping point.
> 
> IMO, they downplay the hoarding angle at least when it comes to 22LR, but it does mean that prices really aren't going to go down much if at all from current levels.
> 
> -DallanC


I dont know if I agree with their assessment of the situation. The reason I dont agree with this idea is because in November 2012 I visited several stores looking for some specific .22 ammo that I needed for my Ruger MK-II (because it is very picky about they type of ammo I give it) and there were oodles of different kinds of .22 ammo on the shelves. Several companies had hundreds of boxes of ammo on hand (I remember Sportsmans in Midvale had a whole pallate of 500 round bricks of Remington Peters). Then came Sandy Hook and the President's second term and things went absolutely bat-shiz crazy with "assault" weapons of any kind.

First, any ammo related to AR-15s disappeared, then most popular handgun cartridges disappeared, and then .22 ammo disappeared and then reappeared at a highly inflated rate and generally was put behind the counter with a limit placed upon the quantity people could buy.

Reading a few forums, guys have stated that they are hoarding .22 ammo because they can have a massive quantity of ammo on hand and it takes very little space up. I dont understand their motivation to hoard the ammo other than the fear of an impending apocalypse, but they feel a need to have thousands of rounds on hand for some reason.

It can take me over a year to shoot a brick of ammo and I feel like I shoot a lot more than lots of guys.... I genuinely feel that it is hoarding.


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## swbuckmaster

Its hoarding and the pos in office


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## colorcountrygunner

Did this increase of recreational shooters have a massive spike between 2012 and 2013? If not, then any claims that the shortages are being caused by general use, and not by hoarders and ammo flippers, doesn't really jive with my reasoning abilities? :?


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## Fishrmn

Hoarding. Plain and simple.

⫸<{{{{{⦅°>


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## wyogoob

I vote hoarding.

A reminder fellas: rotate your .22lr bricks at least once a year. Put the older ones on top.


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## Huntoholic

In order to hoard, must have product to buy.............

Can't hoard what you can't buy........


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## Fishrmn

It's available. For a very short period of time. Because every last round of it that hits the stores is bought before it even gets to the shelves.

⫸<{{{{{⦅°>


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## lifes short

Another vote for hoarding. The same thing happened with primers. People were getting $40 to $50 per 1000 six months ago. I am seeing small pistol around selling in the $26 to $27 range now.
The people that run these plants are not dumb. If you knew people were stacking product under their mattresses be it primers bullets or whatever you know that as soon as the hoarding subsides they will not have to buy those items for a long time.
If you shoot 1000 rounds of .22LR per year and have 10,000 rounds sqirrelled away lets see you will not be buying any for 10 years. Do you really think they are going to spend tens of millions of dollars expanding their plants so when the hoarders get their fill they will have to cut back production.
This same scenario has played out whenever people percieve a shortage. The primer shortage that is just ending is the third one (1st was Gulf War, 2nd Obamas first election, 3rd Sandy Hook)
It is like playing the stock market buy when demand is low and sell when demand is high. Get enough shells to get you by now and when the supplies come back and pricing gets realistic stock up for the next shortage. We will never see $10 bricks again but I still remember 5 for a dollar Deeburgers


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## Huntoholic

Nope gone on for to long. Could be being sold some where else (to other markets), but the numbers being quoted for production are not being seen on the general public U.S.A. streets. Not after the better parts of 2 years....

I know my circle is small, But I don't know anybody that has bought more then 1 brick in the last year.


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## lifes short

It is still coming into stores on a regular basis. People are waiting in line on delivery days and buying all they can to resell. Scheels had Remington bricks Monday and were selling it for a very good price limit 1 brick. Walmart has been getting it regular but gone the day it comes in. Still avaliable online but hold onto your wallet http://www.ammoforsale.com/.22-lr-ammo-for-sale
I have no problem with stores like Scheels limiting quantities, I think that discourages the hoarders. But I will never shop at a place like the link above that is taking advantage. 
My 2 cents


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## Fishrmn

I've seen the hoarders waiting for the shipments to arrive every week. It's out there. But those who work 9-5 ain't there when it gets there. They ain't there when it goes out the door either.

⫸<{{{{{⦅°>


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## Huntoholic

Must be one of those unlucky people. I have not seen a brick in a store in over a year at any price. Did see a box of 50 at Cabelas once in that year. Would not pay the price.


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## Cooky

I had a conversation today with a ”gentleman” who claimed to have bought over $4000 worth of .22 since obama was reelected and doubled his money by selling it. He said his “work from home” job allows him the time to run a route and buy up all the ammo he wants for resale. So long as anyone keeps buying it from these guys you can bet they will continue to buy up all they can.


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## colorcountrygunner

Cooky said:


> I had a conversation today with a "gentleman" who claimed to have bought over $4000 worth of .22 since obama was reelected and doubled his money by selling it. He said his "work from home" job allows him the time to run a route and buy up all the ammo he wants for resale. So long as anyone keeps buying it from these guys you can bet they will continue to buy up all they can.


 I don't know who I loathe more; tools like this, or the idiots that buy from him, and allow this to continue.


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## LostLouisianian

Both !!!!


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## LostLouisianian

colorcountrygunner said:


> I don't know who I loathe more; tools like this, or the idiots that buy from him, and allow this to continue.


Report him to the IRS and ATF. I bet he's not paying income taxes on his gains and if he's selling that much without a license the ATF might be interested. Also report him to the state tax commission. He should be paying state taxes on his sales too.


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## sagebrush

Its not considered a bussiness selling personal property. I swear some people act like they are the police of people on here lately. Reminds me of the left going around trying to be political correct and making sure everyone else thinks the same as them self's.

GET A LIFE


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## LostLouisianian

sagebrush said:


> Its not considered a bussiness selling personal property. I swear some people act like they are the police of people on here lately. Reminds me of the left going around trying to be political correct and making sure everyone else thinks the same as them self's.
> 
> GET A LIFE


Why don't you check state and irs rules first. He is required to pay taxes. Thank you very much


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## sagebrush




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## Cooky

sagebrush said:


>


HMO meeting was cancelled this week. :mrgreen:


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## Bax*

Stupid squirrels


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## Wind In His Hair

I was at Cabela's this evening. The only .22 ammo they had was birdshot for $12 or Remington Match for $19 for a box of 50.


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## colorcountrygunner

Wind In His Hair said:


> I was at Cabela's this evening. The only .22 ammo they had was birdshot for $12 or Remington Match for $19 for a box of 50.


So, approximately 38 cents per round for .22? SMDH :|


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## DallanC

The fact that its consistently selling for these high amounts only proves its been too cheap for too long. Enough people are perfectly happy paying these high amounts, to keep stores sold out for the most part. Prices will recede a small amount as production starts to catch up a year from now, but demand has exceeded supply, and apparently $60-80 per brick of 500 is the norm. Stores currently selling it "cheap" will keep raising prices, stores selling it on the high end will come down a bit. IMO $40 a brick will be the new standard once all the dust settles (and IMO, that's at least 18 months out).

We all have heard hunting is becoming a rich mans sport... seems shooting is headed down that same path unfortunately.


-DallanC


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## Critter

Another problem that is coming up on the horizon is the shut down of Americas only lead smelter. Once this smelter is shut down all the lead will have to be imported from guess where? This won't only affect bullets but a lot of other products. People don't realize just how much lead is used in their everyday lives.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...es-Anticipated-As-EPA-Regs-Close-Lead-Smelter.


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## colorcountrygunner

DallanC said:


> The fact that its consistently selling for these high amounts only proves its been too cheap for too long. Enough people are perfectly happy paying these high amounts, to keep stores sold out for the most part. Prices will recede a small amount as production starts to catch up a year from now, but demand has exceeded supply, and apparently $60-80 per brick of 500 is the norm. Stores currently selling it "cheap" will keep raising prices, stores selling it on the high end will come down a bit. IMO $40 a brick will be the new standard once all the dust settles (and IMO, that's at least 18 months out).
> 
> We all have heard hunting is becoming a rich mans sport... seems shooting is headed down that same path unfortunately.
> 
> -DallanC


$40 a brick is definitely a fair leap from what it used to be, but I wouldn't think it would price out the common man from shooting (if $40 per brick is indeed what it turns out to be). What hasn't gone up substantially in price as of late? Gasoline has more than doubled in price since I turned 16 and started driving back in the year 2000, but this hasn't made driving a rich person only activity. Back around that same time I remember buying 20 ounce cokes for about 75 cents; now they are closer to $1.75. The cost of everything is going up and up and up, while wages seem to hold fairly steady.

Either something has to happen to improve our country's economy or we will all have to learn to get by on less. I know personally, I 
either do all my hunting and fishing much closer to home, or I just don't get out as much as I'd like due to the whole gasoline thing. I really don't like the direction we are headed in, but whaddayado?


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## lifes short

colorcountrygunner said:


> $40 a brick is definitely a fair leap from what it used to be, but I wouldn't think it would price out the common man from shooting (if $40 per brick is indeed what it turns out to be). What hasn't gone up substantially in price as of late? Gasoline has more than doubled in price since I turned 16 and started driving back in the year 2000, but this hasn't made driving a rich person only activity. Back around that same time I remember buying 20 ounce cokes for about 75 cents; now they are closer to $1.75. The cost of everything is going up and up and up, while wages seem to hold fairly steady.
> 
> Either something has to happen to improve our country's economy or we will all have to learn to get by on less. I know personally, I
> either do all my hunting and fishing much closer to home, or I just don't get out as much as I'd like due to the whole gasoline thing. I really don't like the direction we are headed in, but whaddayado?


I like the part of learning to get by on less. Most people do not realize that with a little studying and a very small investment you can shoot 9mm, 40s, .357s cheaper than you can buy .22 LR shells. Right now the going rate to buy .22 is about $45.00 for a brick of 525 which is 8.5 cents per round. If you are willing to learn to cast your own bullets this is what it costs to reload the pistol calibers.

.03 for the primers

You can buy Tulammo primers for $23.00 per 1000 at Midsouth Shooter Supply. Get a couple buddies together purchase 10,000. $230.00 for primers $25.00 Haz shipping $25.00 shipping 2.8cents/primer

.02 for powder

At .02 per round you would have to pay over $30.00/pound for powder. Shotgun Pistol powder is still retailing for less than $20/pound. For target loads I average less than 4.5 grains per load in the above calibers. You get 1555 4.5 grain loads out of 1 pound.

.01 for bullet

The most I have ever paid in 35 years of bullet casting for old wheelweights is $40/full 5 gallon bucket. That was this summer. You end up close to 100 pounds of usable lead in a full bucket. Shooting 140 grain average bullets you get 50 bullets per pound or 5,000/bucket. that leaves you $10 for the lube for the cast bullets.

So I am shooting centerfire pistol for less than .06 per round compared to .085 for .22Lr.

To get into economy bullet casting you only need a $25 lee Tumble lube mold, some Lee tumble lube, an old cast iron pot, ladle and coleman stove.

But trust me just like reloading, hunting, fishing etc.. when you start getting the bug and wanting the newest, greatest, can't live without item you can sink some serious money into the casting hobby. If you do not allready reload you need to start being better and ask Santa to get you started.


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## wyogoob

Bax* said:


> Stupid squirrels


Ah, ha, ha, ha, ho, ho, hee, hee

It's a Fox Squirrel, they're crazy. The stories I could tell.


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## Huge29




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## wyogoob

The closure of the Herculaneum lead smelter will have little, if any, affect on bullet manufacturing and the story has been refuted many times. The Herculaneum smelter is not the only smelter in the US.: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/12/chris-dumm/nssf-sierra-atk-worried-lead-smelter-closure/ says:

_"..........the particular regulation responsible for the closure was published in 2008. The Herculaneum closure appears to be the end-game of a legal and administrative battle that started in 2003 under the administration of president George W. Bush."
_
Sierra says closing lead smelter won't affect them:
http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/...he-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

Federal and Speer say the closure won't affect them:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...plant-in-order-to-enact-backdoor-gun-control/

_"Manufacturers use recycled lead to make ammunition. They don't buy from smelters," Mr. Keane, general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), told me Monday. "The EPA closing, which has been in the works for a while, will have no impact on production, supply or cost to the consumers."_

It appears much of the primary lead in the US is imported already, from Australia and China mostly. Only a small percentage of available lead is used for ammo and it comes from re-cycled batteries. Something like 98% of the lead in batteries gets re-cycled.

uh...whatever, I should never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

Top of the page!!

.
​


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## wyogoob

I feel bad about hoarding so I'm selling the 13,500 rounds I bought in 1977 for 1.7¢ a round and buying a good air rifle.










uh....tried out the Verdana #3 font, waddya think?


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## Frisco Pete

wyogoob said:


> I feel bad about hoarding so I'm selling the 13,500 rounds I bought in 1977 for 1.7¢ a round and buying a good air rifle.


Anyone that has had the same 27 bricks of .22 ammo for 36 years must not like to shoot very much - or is planning one giant retirement party/shooting event for all his friends!

Unless .22 LR ages like fine wine or something...


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## KineKilla

DallanC said:


> Latest issue of The Rifleman does an article on where the ammo is all going, they said use has exceeded production at this point, its not the "government" buying it all up, nor hoarders... but people actually buying and shooting the stuff. They have charts showing sales increasing in the years leading up to the shortage, we finally just reached the tipping point.
> 
> IMO, they downplay the hoarding angle at least when it comes to 22LR, but it does mean that prices really aren't going to go down much if at all from current levels.
> 
> -DallanC


I highly doubt people are shooting thousands more rounds of .22 than they were a year ago. I've been wrong before.

My doubt comes from the ads I see where people are selling 5,000 rounds of .22 at $0.15 + per round...surely they didn't end up with 5,000 rounds because they actually thought they were going to shoot them...if that's the case then .22 replacement barrels/components would also be selling like crazy.


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## wyogoob

Frisco Pete said:


> Anyone that has had the same 27 bricks of .22 ammo for 36 years must not like to shoot very much - or is planning one giant retirement party/shooting event for all his friends!
> 
> Unless .22 LR ages like fine wine or something...


 ah, ha, ha, ha, ho, ho, hee, hee

I just made it up....except for buying the air rifle part.


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## LostLouisianian

wyogoob said:


> ah, ha, ha, ha, ho, ho, hee, hee
> 
> I just made it up....except for buying the air rifle part.


Yep air rifles are the way to go. I have a friend back home in Louisiana that hunts squirrels with them at his home in town because of no noise. He says he kills between 40-60 a year. The big fox squirrels too. Not too big of a town but he has several pecan and fruit trees in his yard and the tree rats flock to them like crazy. Says his average shot is about 25-35 yards.

Last year I bought an old used Benjamin air rifle like I used as a kid way back when. I need to have it serviced now because it doesn't hold pressure. It's the old style with the tootsie roll pump....


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## DallanC

The new nitrogen gas piston systems look sweet, a huge improvement over springers and other types. I've been wanting this one for backyard / garden work:

http://www.airgundepot.com/crosman-nitro-venom-dusk-air-rifle-22.html

-DallanC


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## Mavis13

I want one of these but cant get my self to pay the huge price tag.


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## DallanC

Go big or go home! 

http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45

-DallanC


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## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> Go big or go home!
> 
> http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45
> 
> -DallanC


Very cool and not a bad price.

Air rifles like that, or let me say "of that caliber", have been around for over 200 years. Lewis and Clark used them.


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## wyogoob

Mavis13 said:


> I want one of these but cant get my self to pay the huge price tag.


Wow, that thing is impressive. I hope so for $1500!

Yahoo!!! top of the page!!!

.


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## colorcountrygunner

wyogoob said:


> Very cool and not a bad price.
> 
> Air rifles like that, or let me say "of that caliber", have been around for over 200 years. Lewis and Clark used them.


A repeating rifle that had a magazine capacity of twenty-two .46 caliber round balls that could be fired with great accuracy and enough energy to blow a hole through a one inch pine board at 100 yards clear back in 1803?! Why in the blue blazes didn't this thing spread like a wildfire?


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## DallanC

colorcountrygunner said:


> Why in the blue blazes didn't this thing spread like a wildfire?


Cuz it took 10,000 pumps with a hand pump to charge it ?

-DallanC


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## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> Cuz it took 10,000 pumps with a hand pump to charge it ?
> 
> -DallanC


No. Wasn't it more like 1000 or 1200 pumps for a full charge? As already ststed the firearm was a repeater, capable of shooting dozens of balls on one charge, but if you wanted to shoot one ball hard enough to knock an Indian down it didn't take all that many pumps. My guess is these air rifles were expensive to make.

An air rifle was a brilliant move. Spending every day for months in a makeshift boat they didn't have to worry about keeping their powder dry. Besides there was no TV or internet so they had plenty of time on their hands.

.


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## DallanC

wyogoob said:


> No. Wasn't it more like 1000 or 1200 pumps for a full charge? As already ststed the firearm was a repeater, capable of shooting dozens of balls on one charge, but if you wanted to shoot one ball hard enough to knock an Indian down it didn't take all that many pumps. My guess is these air rifles were expensive to make.


I remember they ran at like 2000psi. Remember, this was pretty much back when rubber wasnt all that common. No tire pumps as there weren't tires. It would be interesting to know how they made the components back then to without our modern tech.



> An air rifle was a brilliant move. Spending every day for months in a makeshift boat they didn't have to worry about keeping their powder dry. Besides there was no TV or internet so they had plenty of time on their hands. .


True.

-DallanC


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## colorcountrygunner

wyogoob said:


> but if you wanted to shoot one ball hard enough to knock an Indian down it didn't take all that many pumps.


I don't know why, but this part made me laugh.


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## Bax*

colorcountrygunner said:


> I don't know why, but this part made me laugh.


I think it's cuz Goob implied that he *knows* how many pumps it takes to shoot an Indian ;-)


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## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> I remember they ran at like 2000psi. Remember, this was pretty much back when rubber wasnt all that common. No tire pumps as there weren't tires. It would be interesting to know how they made the components back then to without our modern tech.
> 
> True.
> 
> -DallanC


Modern tech? The seals were leather. Oil-soaked leather seals are still used today; high pressure piston-operated natural gas valves is one example, vacuum pumps another. In many cases rubber, or nylon, replaced leather because it was cheaper, not better.

.


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