# Name this Cartridge



## NHS

These are the rules: Describe any cartridge, the person that guesses it correctly gets to describe the next one. Here goes:

In 1964, Winchester announced this somewhat odd-looking cartridge to replace the 220 Swift. They chambered the re-vamped Model 70 bolt action in both sporter and varmint models for this new cartridge.


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## Treehugnhuntr

220 not so swift? :wink: 

22-250? No, that was invented about the same time, but by Browning.

.225 win


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## NHS

Ding ding. We have a winner. The 225 Winchester. Just a year after the 225 was introduced, Remington announced it was going to commercialize a popular wildcat cartridge....the 22-250. The 22-250 killed the 225 Win deader than doughnut. And the rest as they say is history.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Developed in 1963 by Roy Weatherby after about 10 years of development. It is a proprietary cartridge based on a shortened .300 Weatherby Magnum case, with no major firearms manufacturers using it other than Weatherby.


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## Surfer Coyote

.240 Weatherby???


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## Loke

Let's see, the 240 is basically a belted 30-06 case necked to 6mm. The 257, 270, and 7mm are on a shortened 300 case, but they were all introduced between 1943 and 44. You've got me stumped.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Haha! I stumped Loke! Today is a great day! :mrgreen:


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## Loke

The 224 Weatherby was introduced in 1963, but it is on a proprietary case with a case head diameter smaller than the 30-06, but slightly larger than the 223.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Rats!


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## Loke

In keeping with the small bore theme, name the military cartridge that the 220 Swift was based on.


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## Fishrmn

6MM Navy, or 6MM Lee Navy.

Fishrmn


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## Loke

You're up.


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## Al Hansen

Dang you guys are good.


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## James

6mm Lee Navy


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## Fishrmn

A popular wildcat round that was first offered by Remington Arms in 1934. It's a "quarter bore", but what was the parent cartridge?

(A two-fer)

Fishrmn


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## Huge29

.25 Roberts/.257 Roberts, based on the necked down 7x57mm Mauser.

If that is correct, someone else go, I will not be able to check back soon.


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## Fishrmn

Huge29 said:


> .25 Roberts/.257 Roberts, based on the necked down 7x57mm Mauser.
> 
> If that is correct, someone else go, I will not be able to check back soon.


You are correct, Sir.

Who's next?

Fishrmn


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## Huge29

America’s first factory-loaded elephant cartridge introduced in 1956. 

I won't be able to monitor, but this one should be easy to figure out.


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## Treehugnhuntr

That would be a .458 win.


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## Treehugnhuntr

When Winchester introduced the This cartridge in 1938, they probably figured that varmint shooters would buy any rifle as long as it was chambered for a new twenty two caliber centerfire cartridge. Obviously, their crystal ball was operating at less than full voltage, less than 6,000 model 60 rifles were produced in this caliber. Had it been introduced in the great Model 70 bolt action rifle, it's fate might have taken a different twist. But it never happened.


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## Mojo1

.218 Bee

What cartridge or cartridges did it evolve/made from?


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## Treehugnhuntr

25-20/32-20


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## Mojo1

Treehugnhuntr said:


> 25-20/32-20


Yeap

Your up again.


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## tapehoser

Here's mine:

Created by Layne Simpson in 1989, this cartridge was developed on the 8mm Rem Mag case by necking it down by .035 inches.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Hmmm, I was going to say 7mm Shooting Times Westerner, but it's only necked down by .031.


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## Loke

My math makes it out to be .037, and I was going to guess the STW as well.


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## tapehoser

Close but no cigar. Not Westerner, but the ST is correct.

8mm bullet = .323 inches
Mystery cartridge = .358 inches


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## Loke

That would be the Shooting Times Alaskan. But that would be necking it up.


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## tapehoser

Sorry...I am a ding dong.

You are correct!


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## Loke

This one should be fun. Name the first cartridge that Roy Weatherby designed. Here's a hint, it is not called a "magnum", and does not have a belted case.


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## Treehugnhuntr

.475?


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## Loke

Think small bore.


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## Mojo1

.220 Rocket ??????

If that's right what cartridge did Walter "Karamojo" Bell use to kill most of his 1,011 elephants?


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## Loke

Mojo1 said:


> .220 Rocket ??????
> 
> If that's right what cartridge did Walter "Karamojo" Bell use to kill most of his 1,011 elephants?


You are correct. 6.5x54 and 7x57 (275 Rigby). He used both.


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> Mojo1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .220 Rocket ??????
> 
> If that's right what cartridge did Walter "Karamojo" Bell use to kill most of his 1,011 elephants?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. 6.5x54 and 7x57 (275 Rigby). He used both.
Click to expand...

\

Correct!!!!


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## Loke

In 1886, this was the first smokeless powder cartridge to be adopted by a military.


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## Treehugnhuntr

8mm Lebel. Used by the French military.

Ok, I'll switch it up a little. This shorter version of the German standard rifle round, in combination with the weapon's selective-fire design, provided a compromise between the controllable firepower of a submachine gun at close quarters with the accuracy and power of a Karabiner 98k bolt action rifle at intermediate ranges.

What is the most common name of the gun and round???


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## Finnegan

Woah on there, Bobalooey. Wasn't the first smokeless round the 30.40 Krag?


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## Loke

Finnegan said:


> Woah on there, Bobalooey. Wasn't the first smokeless round the 30.40 Krag?


The Krag was the first smokeless round adopted by the United States. The 8mm Lebel was adopted by the French in 1886.


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## Loke

StG 44 (also MP43 or MP44), 7.9x33 (7.9 Kurz)


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## NHS

You guys are gooooood. Throw one my way that I might know.....like the .243 or .270 Win :lol: Just kidding. Carry on!


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## Loke

Name the official military cartridge that preceded the 30-06. It was the second smokeless powder cartridge adopted by the U.S. military.


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## NHS

Was it the military service cartridge 30-03? .30 cal in the M1903 Springfield.


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## Loke

NHS said:


> Was it the military service cartridge 30-03? .30 cal in the M1903 Springfield.


Yes, it was.


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## NHS

This cartridge dates to 1920. Was developed for a lever-rifle and was superior to the 30-30. If I gave you the name of the rifle, you could easily guess the cartridge. What is it?


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## Huge29

.300 savage?


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## NHS

You're right. My grandpa had one. I still have some of his old .
300 Savage handloads on my shelf. Neat old cartridge.


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## Huge29

Rimless bottlenecked centerfire with supersonic precision range of 2,187 yards released in 2001 with 305 and 419 gr bullets.


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## tapehoser

Huge29 said:


> Rimless bottlenecked centerfire with supersonic precision range of 2,187 yards released in 2001 with 305 and 419 gr bullets.


Hmmm.....gotta be something in the 416 or 458 calibers. Perhaps European? Maybe the Barret .49 cal?


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## Huge29

tapehoser said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rimless bottlenecked centerfire with supersonic precision range of 2,187 yards released in 2001 with 305 and 419 gr bullets.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm.....gotta be something in the 416 or 458 calibers. Perhaps European? Maybe the Barret .49 cal?
Click to expand...

In the ballpark, but no.


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## Surfer Coyote

Huge29 said:


> Rimless bottlenecked centerfire with supersonic precision range of 2,187 yards released in 2001 with 305 and 419 gr bullets.


.408 Cheyenne Tactical (Chey Tac for short). I believe this is the rifle that Mark Wahlberg shoots the stew can with in _Shooter._


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## Huge29

Surfer Coyote said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rimless bottlenecked centerfire with supersonic precision range of 2,187 yards released in 2001 with 305 and 419 gr bullets.
> 
> 
> 
> .408 Cheyenne Tactical (Chey Tac for short). I believe this is the rifle that Mark Wahlberg shoots the stew can with in _Shooter._
Click to expand...

.408 Chey Tac is it; I do not know about the rest...


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## Surfer Coyote

Ok, how about the first caliber Mikhail Kalashnikov was working with when developing his AK designs?


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## Finnegan

52 mm...a machine gun cartridge.


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## Finnegan

Or...54 mm.


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## Loke

7.62x41


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## Loke

This one could have one of two different bullet diameters. They are differentiated by a "J" or "S" designation.


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## NHS

I'm stumped on this one Loke. Maybe Mojo, Surfer or one of the other guys knows.


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## Loke

Hint: J= .318 S= .323


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## NHS

Thanks for the hint. The 8mm Mauser?


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## Loke

That is correct. When first adopted by the Germans in 1888, the 8x57 Mauser had a .318" bore. In 1905 the bullet diameter was changed to .323", and was designated 8x57S.




(Loading manuals are the preferred reading at my house).


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## Surfer Coyote

Surfer Coyote said:


> Ok, how about the first caliber Mikhail Kalashnikov was working with when developing his AK designs?





Loke said:


> 7.62x41


That is correct! Sorry, I've been out and about most of the day.



Loke said:


> This one could have one of two different bullet diameters. They are differentiated by a "J" or "S" designation.





NHS said:


> I'm stumped on this one Loke. Maybe Mojo, Surfer or one of the other guys knows.


That is a great trivia question! I did know that one. Man, I love Mausers!


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## NHS

I guess its my turn. This cartridge dates to 1882 when it was introduced in the famous Win Model 1873 lever-gun.


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## Treehugnhuntr

.32 WCF?


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## NHS

Treehugnhuntr said:


> .32 WCF?


Yes sir. Also known as the 32-20 Win. A mere pellet gun by today's standards.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Developed in 1896 for Smith & Wesson. This caliber was a favorite of PD's of the era.


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## Mojo1

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Developed in 1896 for Smith & Wesson. This caliber was a favorite of PD's of the era.


.32 S&W Long


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## Treehugnhuntr

Si.


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## Mojo1

What cartridge was developed by Smith & Wesson for their S&W Model 3 American top-break revolver.


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## Finnegan

.44 Henry Rimfire


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## Mojo1

Finnegan said:


> .44 Henry Rimfire?


Nope.

Hint: It is close to the dimensions of a poplar cowboy action round still in use today.


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## NHS

38 S&W?


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## Mojo1

NHS said:


> 38 S&W?


Think Bigger


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## Loke

.44 American.


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> .44 American.


Close wee bit larger

another hint: Some of General Custer's men carried this pistol during their last stand at the Little Big Horn.


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## NHS

45 S&W Schofield?


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## Loke

Or were you thinking of the Scofield? That one was in 45 S&W, and the reason the 45 Colt is erroneously called the Long Colt.


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## Mojo1

NHS said:


> 45 S&W Schofield?


Correct The .45 Schofield or .45 Smith & Wesson as its known.


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> Or were you thinking of the Scofield? That one was in 45 S&W, and the reason the 45 Colt is erroneously called the Long Colt.


The .45 Schofield or .45 Smith & Wesson is a revolver cartridge developed by Smith & Wesson for their S&W Model 3 American top-break revolver. It is similar to the .45 Colt round though shorter and with a slightly larger rim, and will generally work in revolvers chambered for that cartridge. In fact, US government arsenals supplied .45 Schofield cartridges for both the Schofield revolver and the Colt Army revolver to simplify their armament needs.[1] .45 Colt cartridges cannot be used in .45 Schofield firearms, since the .45 Colt is a longer cartridge.


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## NHS

I hope I am right on this one. What was the first American metallic cartridge?


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## Finnegan

Easy... the .22 short


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## NHS

Finnegan said:


> Easy... the .22 short


That's the answer I have. Your up Mr. Finnegan......begin again.


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## Finnegan

Introduced by Winchester in 1992, this hollow point had a reverse taper jacket and was painted with a black “Lubalox” coating. Winchester pulled it from the market after media attacks against the bullet following a high profile shooting in San Francisco in 1993 and charges that the bullet could be dangerous to medical personnel who treated patients who had been shot with the round. Winchester was later sued in 1993 unsuccessfully after another shooting in New York. What's one of the two common names for this notorious bullet?


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## Fishrmn

Black Talon?

Fishrmn


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## Finnegan

Yup. Also known as the "Starpoint". Rumor was that it was coated with Teflon and could penetrate body armor. The rumor was false, and the bullet was later reintroduced as the "Ranger SXT"


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## Fishrmn

Who chambers the "Spitfire", "Phantom", "Tomahawk", "Patriot", and "Galaxy"?

Fishrmn


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## Mojo1

Fishrmn said:


> Who chambers the "Spitfire", "Phantom", "Tomahawk", "Patriot", and "Galaxy"?
> 
> Fishrmn


LAZZARONI


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## Fishrmn

You got it!

Fishrmn


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## NHS

Mojo1 said:


> Fishrmn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who chambers the "Spitfire", "Phantom", "Tomahawk", "Patriot", and "Galaxy"?
> 
> Fishrmn
> 
> 
> 
> LAZZARONI
Click to expand...

Those come a dime a dozen. :lol:


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## Mojo1

This cartridge practically duplicates the ballistics of the larger 25-06.


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## Loke

257 Ackley Improved.


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> 257 Ackley Improved.


correct, your up


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## tapehoser

Who was the first manufacturer to pick up and produce the 6.5mm-284 cartridge?


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## tapehoser

Norma is correct.


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## tapehoser

.333 OKH? (O'Neil, Keith, Hopkins)


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## Huge29

If tapehoser finally gets on here and posts his own disregard this, otherwise, I will throw out this one:
Developed in 1993, not based on any previous cartridge for the hunting of large game in Africa. Produces 10,180 foot-pounds force. The production model from A-square is based on their Hannibal rifle platform.


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## Huge29

Finnegan said:


> Yup. Also known as the "Starpoint". Rumor was that it was coated with Teflon and could penetrate body armor. The rumor was false, and the bullet was later reintroduced as the "Ranger SXT"


FYI for those who would give a rat's arse; I asked the guy at SW tonight about this, gun dept mgr, I believe. He said, that they indeed were teflon coated and that he has hundreds of rounds that he bought before they were discontinued/banned to prove it... Wikpedia supports Finn:


> The Black Talon bullet is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with perforations designed to expand sharp edges upon impact.[1] The bullet included a Lubalox (a proprietary oxide process [2]) coating, (though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax) giving it an unusual black appearance compared to copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. This coating in fact is still widely used on many of Winchester's rifle bullets today.[3] The bullet also had a unique appearance with a star shaped perforation on the black tip, giving it the nickname Starpoint.


That stuff goes for $24 for a box of fitty, wow, I had not really seen the price increase that many had mentioned, much of the ammo has increased 70% since the last time I really noted prices. 
Wikipedia concludes with this:


> The ammunition was targeted by those opposed to handguns, and the reputation was very different in the public, and eventually the Talons became to be known by the moniker "Cop-Killer" bullets. The hype of the Black Talon ammunition was the black coating on the bullets themselves. There were false rumors that the bullets were armor piercing and could penetrate vests. To further the controversy, some medical personnel claimed that the sharp barb like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection, however there are no documented reports of this actually happening.
> Winchester voluntarily pulled the ammunition from the market completely in 2000. The "Ranger SXT" ammunition sold today by Winchester is essentially the same ammunition without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Among shooters, the running joke is that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing."


 :lol:


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## Mojo1

577 Tyrannosaur or T-Rex


___________ is the American equivalent of the 5.6x35R?


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## Loke

I'll bet it would make a great woofie rifle.


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## Loke

Mojo1 said:


> ___________ is the American equivalent of the 5.6x35R?


22 Hornet


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## Huge29

I believe the .22 WCF is also "equivalent," appears to be many different "opinions." I think you are up Loke.


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## Loke

This one was introduced in a single shot built on a revolver frame. The gun was destined to become an instant collector's item.


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## .45

Loke? Could that have been a .22 ?


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## Loke

No, you're about .034" too small.


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## Mojo1

Huge29 said:


> I believe the .22 WCF is also "equivalent," appears to be many different "opinions." I think you are up Loke.


Sorry, I had to go out for a while, the .22 Hornet/5.6x35R was based on the .22WCF.

Loke Your up.


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## Huge29

256 Win Mag or .25 ACP?


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## Loke

Huge29 said:


> 256 Win Mag or .25 ACP?


Well, which one?


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## .45

Loke said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 256 Win Mag or .25 ACP?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, which one?
Click to expand...

Huge29...say the 256 Win Mag..!! _(O)_


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## Loke

I think Huge is napping.


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## .45

Loke said:


> I think Huge is napping.


He's a Banker.....maybe he _retired for the evening_... :mrgreen:


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## Loke

.45 said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Huge is napping.
> 
> 
> 
> He's a Banker.....maybe he _retired for the evening_... :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that he made it past 6:30.
whoever says 256 Winchester gets to go next.


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## Mojo1

256 Win :lol: 


While we are waiting on Huge to wake up from his napping, I'll throw out another one.

What Proprietary cartridge is named after John “Pondoro” Taylor, you might find it chambered in a Hannibal?


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## tapehoser

.400 Pondoro?


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## Mojo1

tapehoser said:


> .400 Pondoro?


Correct, Next?


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## tapehoser

Introduced in 1983, this *handgun* cartridge can launch smaller bullets at 2,000 fps and was nicknamed "Mad Max".


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## Huge29

Sorry guys, the wife needed the PC for a minute, what about the .338 Lapua, I'm having a hard time with this one.


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## Mojo1

tapehoser said:


> Introduced in 1983, this *handgun* cartridge can launch smaller bullets at 2,000 fps and was nicknamed "Mad Max".


.375 Remington maximum?


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## Huge29

Mojo1 said:


> tapehoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> Introduced in 1983, this *handgun* cartridge can launch smaller bullets at 2,000 fps and was nicknamed "Mad Max".
> 
> 
> 
> .375 Remington maximum?
Click to expand...

Mojo,
I think you have a simple dyslexic typo; I think you mean .357 Rem Max; and I am pretty sure that you are correct (1,998 f/s on a 158 gr bullet and was introduced in 1983 and has "max" in the name)! Give us a new one.


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## Mojo1

Huge29 said:


> Mojo1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tapehoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> Introduced in 1983, this *handgun* cartridge can launch smaller bullets at 2,000 fps and was nicknamed "Mad Max".
> 
> 
> 
> .375 Remington maximum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mojo,
> I think you have a simple dyslexic typo; I think you mean .357 Rem Max; and I am pretty sure that you are correct (1,998 f/s on a 158 gr bullet and was introduced in 1983 and has "max" in the name)! Give us a new one.
Click to expand...

Sorry your right it was a typo.

What cartridge is based on a .375 H&H Magnum case blown out and necked to accept a .475 inch (12 mm) bullet? It pushes a 500 grain load at around 2400FPS. It was named after a well know hunting author.


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## tapehoser

.357 Rem Max is correct.


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## Huge29

.475 Turnbull or .470 Linebaugh? I can't quite find that velocity at that density.... :!:


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## Loke

470 Capstick


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> 470 Capstick


correct!!!

Next?


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## Loke

This was the first commercial .20 caliber. A new handgun chambered for this round was annmounced at the SHOT Show this year.


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> This was the first commercial .20 caliber. A new handgun chambered for this round was annmounced at the SHOT Show this year.


.204 Ruger?


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## Loke

Not the 204. It was introduced in 1970.


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## tapehoser

Tactical 20?


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## Loke

Not a wildcat. Never was. Rifles were discontinued in 1974, ammunition was discontinued in 1982. Aguila is now producing ammunition for the new revolvers.


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## Mojo1

5mm RRM (Remington Rimfire Magnum)


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## Loke

Mojo1 said:


> 5mm RRM (Remington Rimfire Magnum)


You are correct.


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## Mojo1

_____/____________________ are the names of a center fire rifle cartridge that while first introduced in 1957 has recently enjoyed a popularity resurgence with shooters.


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## Huge29

.280 Rem/8MM?


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## Mojo1

.280 good/ 8mm not


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## Huge29

duh, my error, I should know better being that I own one very similar, 280 Rem/7mm Express Rem.


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## Mojo1

You are correct.


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## Loke

It was also called the 7mm-06 for about a week, until the engineers at Remington figured out that all of the 7mm wildcats based on the '06 case didn't interchange.


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## Huge29

Parent case is a .223 Rem achieving velocity up to 4,100 f/s with the lightest load of 32 gr; developed in the last decade.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Mmmmm..... .204 Ruger?


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## Huge29

The 204 Ruger is based on the .222 Rem, but very close, this one is about 120f/s slower than the 204 Ruger.


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## Loke

20 Tactical?


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## Huge29

No, little smaller diameter.


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## Mojo1

.17 Remington Fireball


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## Huge29

.17 is too small


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## Surfer Coyote

I saw this in a Cooper catalog a while back. Is it the 19-.223?


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## tapehoser

I would say the .17-222 but you said 17 was too small.


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## Huge29

Surfer Coyote said:


> I saw this in a Cooper catalog a while back. Is it the 19-.223?


Yes, indeed.


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## NHS

Huge29 said:


> Surfer Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this in a Cooper catalog a while back. Is it the 19-.223?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, indeed.
Click to expand...

There are outstanding bullet choices in that caliber!


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## Surfer Coyote

This might be kind of an easy one. Name the two cartridges developed for use on the AR platform that have names that come from the same mythological text.


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## tapehoser

The 50 Beowulf and the 6.5 Grendel.


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## tapehoser

Arugably one of the most powerful large/dangerous game cartridges (in terms of energy), this puppy can generate nearly 6,500 ft.-lbs. of energy with a 400 grain bullet, throwing it around 2,700 fps with the right powder. The 400 grain bullet in question premiered at the 1999 SHOT show by Nosler. The cartridge itself was introduced in 1989.


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## tapehoser

Was that too easy? So easy nobody's going to justify it with a response?


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## Mojo1

.416 Remington Magnum?


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## Loke

A 400 grain bullet at 2700 fps would be the 416 Weatherby Magnum.


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> A 400 grain bullet at 2700 fps would be the 416 Weatherby Magnum.


Yeap, the Remington came out in 88.


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## tapehoser

Loke is the winner again!


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## Loke

Chambered in the Winchester model 64, this cartridge was introduced in 1937. But who ever heard of a lever action varmint rifle?


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## tapehoser

.25-35?


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## Loke

tapehoser said:


> .25-35?


25-35 brass can be reformed to make brass for this round.


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## .45

Another 25-35....


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## Loke

A 50 gr bullet will zip right along at about 3600 fps from this cartridge....


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## .45

Don't ignore me Loke !!! :evil: 

.223 ?


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## Treehugnhuntr

25/06 or 250/3000?


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## Mojo1

Loke said:


> tapehoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> .25-35?
> 
> 
> 
> 25-35 brass can be reformed to make brass for this round.
Click to expand...

Neck it down to make the...........
Savage .22 Hi-Power or neck it farther down and get the .219 Zipper.


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## Loke

Mojo1 said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tapehoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> .25-35?
> 
> 
> 
> 25-35 brass can be reformed to make brass for this round.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neck it down to make the........... .219 Zipper.
Click to expand...

Finally! Your're up.


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## Mojo1

_______ is basically the .38-55 necked down.


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## Huge29

30-30 aka .30 WCF

If that is correct, someone else go, can't access at work.


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## Mojo1

Huge29 said:


> 30-30 aka .30 WCF
> 
> If that is correct, someone else go, can't access at work.


Correct, I'm going to work too, be back tonight.


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## Huge29

Here we go: 
Developed in 1923 in the United States, it was intended to replace the .30-06 Springfield in new semi-automatic rifles and machine guns. The .____ __________ was a shorter, lighter and lower pressure round than the .30-06, which made the design of an autoloading rifle easier than the long, powerful .30-06. The US Army Chief of Staff Gen. Douglas MacArthur rejected the .___ ________ Garand in 1932 after verifying that a .30-06 version was feasible.


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## Loke

276 Pedersen


----------



## Huge29

We need to make a rule where Loke can't guess until there are 4 incorrect guesses; did you really know that from memory? I'm impressed! _(O)_


----------



## Loke

I did know that one. Now what is the modern equivalent of the 276 Pedersen? Everything old is new again.


----------



## Huge29

6.5 x 52 mm (0.264 in) Carcano or the Japanese 6.5 x 50 mm (0.264 in) Arisaka

If that is it; go again; I already had that info up on the page.


----------



## Loke

I was looking for the latest and greatest in combat cartridges. It was developed to replace(?) the 5.56 with something a little more effective against fanatical Muslims.


----------



## Huge29

6.8 mm Remington SPC or 6.5 mm Grendel?


----------



## Loke

Huge29 said:


> 6.8 mm Remington SPC?


It's your turn now.


----------



## Huge29

This should be easy; I will not be able to monitor tomorrow; if you are confident in your answer just go ahead and post a new one:

The __________ offers ballistics superior to the .30-06 Springfield with all equivalent bullet weights. This cartridge is capable of taking any game in North America, although one may do well to select a larger caliber for big bears. Introduced in 1962. Popular web gun author Chuck Hawks calls this cartridge one of the great all-around rifle cartridges


----------



## .45

7 mm Magnum ?


----------



## Gee LeDouche

7MM? >>O


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.45 is up.


----------



## Loke

.45 said:


> 7 mm Magnum ?


Which one? There are about 9 zillion of them and not one is any better than the 270 Winchester. :lol:


----------



## .45

This ought to be tough for you gun guys....  

The U.S.Army developed this cartridge to replace the S & W .44 ?


----------



## Loke

I can't play until 4 people guess wrong.


----------



## Huge29

Loke said:


> .45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 7 mm Magnum ?
> 
> 
> 
> Which one? There are about 9 zillion of them and not one is any better than the 270 Winchester. :lol:
Click to expand...

Them are fighting words -oOo- , it was referring to THE 7mm, being the 7mm Rem Mag. I seriously don't understand the inferiority complex displayed by the 270 fellars; I will display the facts and then we will agree to disagree. You know that I was just kidding about the 4 guesses. I know that you are just trying to get me riled up so I'll take the bait and give my $0.02.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.270_Winchester
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_mm_Remington_Magnum
7mm has about 10% more energy (resulting in flatter trajectory) and .007 larger bullet diameter, more bullet options and more modern design (39 years newer :mrgreen: ); not huge difference, but certainly better unless you are talking about a rifle for the wife or daughter and are worried about the recoil.

As to the question at hand; your namesake, the .45 Colt?


----------



## Loke

You are mistaken. There is no "inferiority" complex among us 270 shooters. It is a superiority complex. We know we're better and we're not afraid to tell you about it, either. :wink:


----------



## .45

Loke...it's the .45 Long Colt...


----------



## Huge29

If that means that I am up; someone else go, I was only able to sneek on the site for a moment.


----------



## .45

Huge29 said:


> If that means that I am up; someone else go, I was only able to sneek on the site for a moment.


My apology Huge29...at that time of morning, when I read the response, I thought it was Loke.... -)O(- ........You are correct Huge29..


----------



## threshershark

:shock: 

Your namesake is the .45 LONG Colt??? Here I've been thinking it was the .45 ACP.


----------



## .45

threshershark said:


> :shock:
> 
> Your namesake is the .45 LONG Colt??? Here I've been thinking it was the .45 ACP.


I don't like ACP's..... .45 LC or .40's....that's all I care about....and girls....and stuff...


----------



## threshershark

Can you handle that much gun?


----------



## .45

threshershark said:


> Can you handle that much gun?


Yes I can, Thank You !!  .....But, not the girls and stuff...


----------



## Mojo1

Back to the game

Designed in the second decade of the 1900’s this cartridge is based on a greatly scaled up 30-06 cartridge. It's 3.945 long x .804" wide.


----------



## Loke

*OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*


----------



## Mojo1

Loke said:


> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*


Loke What is it?


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*


Only after 4 wrong quess'es Loke.... :mrgreen:

Is it a .50 cal.?


----------



## Mojo1

.50 BMG 

Next?


----------



## .45

'THE SHOOTER at the heavy bench rest squinted as he aligned his rifle on the distant target. The rifle fore-stock and barrel was cradled in a rest; the butt was supported by his shoulder. The rear sight was flipped up to its full height, so with no stock support for his head, the rifle tester from Springfield Armory worked carefully to align high rear and low muzzle sight on the speck that was the target - a surveyed 2,500 yards distant.' 

Can you believe this ? What caliber are they talking about ?


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> 'THE SHOOTER at the heavy bench rest squinted as he aligned his rifle on the distant target. The rifle fore-stock and barrel was cradled in a rest; the butt was supported by his shoulder. The rear sight was flipped up to its full height, so with no stock support for his head, the rifle tester from Springfield Armory worked carefully to align high rear and low muzzle sight on the speck that was the target - a surveyed 2,500 yards distant.'
> 
> Can you believe this ? What caliber are they talking about ?


45/70


----------



## .45

Dang......you got it !! 

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/ ... dyhook.htm


----------



## Mojo1

It was the first so called “small-bore” rifle cartridge of the US military; it was developed in the early 1890’s


----------



## .45

9 mm ?


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> 9 mm ?


Nope, think rifle cartridges

Hint: In 1899, the ______ was used to shoot the world-record Rocky Mountain elk. The record stood until the latter half of the 20th century.


----------



## .45

Mmmmm....kind of lost here.. :? 

.30 Smokeless or 30-30 ?


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> Mmmmm....kind of lost here.. :?
> 
> .30 Smokeless or 30-30 ?


It was a .30 caliber and the first smokeless loaded military round, the 45/70 replaced it.


----------



## .45

I didn't know this... :shock: 

. The ___________ is a dual-purpose anti-personnel and anti-materiel round; however, its anti-materiel potential is limited, due to the bullet's lower kinetic energy compared with that of the .50 BMG's 

This has probably already been brought up, but I didn't know the Military used these...


----------



## Mojo1

Mojo1 said:


> .45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmmm....kind of lost here.. :?
> 
> .30 Smokeless or 30-30 ?
> 
> 
> 
> It was a .30 caliber and the first smokeless loaded military round, the 45/70 replaced it.
Click to expand...

30/40 Krag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-40_Krag


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> I didn't know this... :shock:
> 
> . The ___________ is a dual-purpose anti-personnel and anti-materiel round; however, its anti-materiel potential is limited, due to the bullet's lower kinetic energy compared with that of the .50 BMG's
> 
> This has probably already been brought up, but I didn't know the Military used these...


338 Laupa magnum?


----------



## .45

Oops....sorry, I thought I had answered the question....  

Slap me.... 

.338 is correct...


----------



## Mojo1

That's okay, I kind of made my reply confusing.  

Next Riddle

The __________________ also known as the _______ was the first small-game lever-action cartridge ________________produced. It was initially introduced as a black powder cartridge in 1882 for small-game, varmint hunting, and deer.[


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*


----------



## Mojo1

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
Click to expand...

Loke what is the answer to the question please.


----------



## Loke

32 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) or more commonly known as the 32-20.


----------



## Mojo1

Loke said:


> 32 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) or more commonly known as the 32-20.


Correct next?


----------



## Loke

This cartridge was introduced last year. It is based on a cartridge that was introduced in 1984. That cartridge was based on one developed in 1896. And that one was developed in the 1870's. What is the new cartridge. It's ballistics are identical to the last cartridge. How many times can the wheel be invented?


----------



## Mojo1

Loke said:


> This cartridge was introduced last year. It is based on a cartridge that was introduced in 1984. That cartridge was based on one developed in 1896. And that one was developed in the 1870's. What is the new cartridge. It's ballistics are identical to the last cartridge. How many times can the wheel be invented?


.338 Federal?


----------



## Mojo1

Mojo1 said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> This cartridge was introduced last year. It is based on a cartridge that was introduced in 1984. That cartridge was based on one developed in 1896. And that one was developed in the 1870's. What is the new cartridge. It's ballistics are identical to the last cartridge. How many times can the wheel be invented?
> 
> 
> 
> .338 Federal? or more likely the 308 Marlin Express?
Click to expand...


----------



## Loke

It's a handgun cartridge.


----------



## .45

.357 ?


----------



## Loke

You missed it by .03".


----------



## Huge29

.38-40 Win?


----------



## Loke

Go the other way.


----------



## .45

I'm think'in a .44 Special...but sometimes I don't think too well either... *\-\*


----------



## Loke

The great-grand parent cartridge was the 32 S&W.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.327? :mrgreen:


----------



## Loke

Treehugnhuntr said:


> .327? :mrgreen:


The 327 Federal Magnum is correct. It started with the 32 S&W, which grew into the 32 S&W Long (or 32 Colt New Police). That grew into the 32 H&R Magnum (one of my favorite squirrel shooters). Federal lengthened that case, and created the 327 federal Magnum. Or should they have called it the "32 Maximum"?


----------



## Loke

Well, Tree, do you have one for us?


----------



## Huge29

Apparently not, so I'll go:
Arguably the best known medium bore cartridge and only the second to ever be belted.


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
Click to expand...


----------



## Huge29

Just to make it fair, Loke has to answer in a foreign language, this one should be easy in nearly any language.


----------



## Loke

How about I just give you the original name, not the one it is known by now?


375 ceñieron nitro sin rebordes expresan
375 ?????????? rimless ????? ????????
375 omgorde randloze nitro uitdrukkelijk
375 ont ceinturé nitro sans monture expriment


----------



## Huge29

Sure, as long as you spell it backwards in pig latin :mrgreen:


----------



## Loke

Based on the same case as the previous round, this one pushes a 100 grain bullet 3500 fps, 100 fps faster than the Weatherby cartridge of the same caliber.


----------



## Huge29

Is it your beloved 7mm Rem Mag, it fits the 375 H&H case, it also has a Weatherby equivalent that is slower, but I don't think there is a bullet as small as 100??? And your 270 is a 30-06 case???


----------



## Loke

Huge29 said:


> Is it your beloved 7mm Rem Mag, it fits the 375 H&H case, it also has a Weatherby equivalent that is slower, but I don't think there is a bullet as small as 100??? And your 270 is a 30-06 case???


This is a British cartridge. I don't believe it was ever chambered by an American manufacturer.


----------



## Loke

Another hint, it is a Holland & Holland cartridge. Introduced in 1955.


----------



## Huge29

Finally found it .244 H&H magnum.


----------



## Loke

You're up.


----------



## Huge29

This one's latter name is is what fixed blade's nickname was in high school, 250 grn bullet at 2,200 f/s. the ___ _________is designed to be used in the standard M-16/AR-15 platform, using standard magazines.


----------



## .45

Retard ?

Dumb arse ?

Hillbilly deluxe?


----------



## Mojo1

.450 Bushmaster Thumper

Which was FB's nickname? :mrgreen:


----------



## Huge29

.45 said:


> Retard ?
> 
> Dumb arse ?
> 
> Hillbilly deluxe?


 :lol: :lol: :lol:



Mojo1 said:


> .450 Bushmaster Thumper
> 
> Which was FB's nickname? :mrgreen:


That is it; FB was known as the Bushmaster with the ladies; before he changed teams, j/k :mrgreen:


----------



## Mojo1

Well known buffalo hunter Frank Mayer favored an eleven pound, thirty-two inch barreled ______ _______ whose flat shooting characteristics allowed him to take buffalo out to 600 yards.


----------



## .45

45-110 Creedmore ?


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> 45-110 Creedmore ?


A little smaller on both numbers. Not a Creedmore


----------



## .45

Maybe a Sharps 40-70... :?


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> Maybe a Sharps 40-70... :?


Pretty close

Sharps-correct
.40 -correct
-70 think a little bigger


----------



## wyogoob

45-90 Sharps


----------



## .45

It's gotta be a 40-75...I'm getting tired of guessing _wrong_


----------



## Mojo1

.45 said:


> It's gotta be a 40-75...I'm getting tired of guessing _wrong_


Think more powder.... about 20 grains less than the Creedmore cartridge. 8)


----------



## mzshooter

.40-70, .40-90, .45-110, .45-120; I,ve herd anywhere from 11 lbs. to this one saying 16 lbs. This is all the info I could find. "Mayer started hunting in Texas and moved North with the herds. His rifles were Sharps. First came the .40-70 and the .40-90. Then Mayer got his big rifle, a sixteen pound .45 that shot a 550 grain bullet and was equipped with a 10 power German scope. That scope had three horizontal crosshairs for shooting at different distances and also for estimating range. So much for the buffalo hunter with his tang-sighted rifle and cross sticks!

Mayer said his rifle was chambered in .45-120, however modern experts say the .45-120 did not arrive until after the Sharps Company went out of business. Perhaps it was a .45-110 or perhaps the modern experts are mistaken. Perhaps." SHILOH SHARPS .45-110 BY JOHN TAFFIN


----------



## .45

Ha ha....you've seen the same article I have.....good information there, but I can't seem to find what we're looking for... :?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.40-90-420


----------



## Mojo1

The article I found said the .40-90 was the one, we'll consider this one answered in full :lol: , Someone please go next.


----------



## mzshooter

"40-90 Sharps Bottle Neck (403 Diameter)" Created by Sharps, 1876; Also called 40-100 Sharps Necked and 40-2 5/8" Sharps


----------



## mzshooter

This one should be easy for lovers of the .172 Dia. This Cartridge can be made by sizing down a 22 Hornet placing a "40 degree shoulder" and fire forming. 24” barrel will fire a 20 gr. VMAX at 3750 fps.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.17 fireball?


----------



## mzshooter

Nope!


----------



## Mojo1

.19 Calhoon? wait not a .17 caliber, lets try the .17 Hornet. :wink:


----------



## mzshooter

Its 17 Cal.


----------



## Mojo1

mzshooter said:


> Its 17 Cal.


I was editing my previous post

.17 Hornet


----------



## mzshooter

17 _____ Hornet there are two versions one with 40* shoulder one with 30*(Ackley) what is the 40* called?


----------



## Loke

K (I know what the "K" is for, too.)


----------



## mzshooter

Good job I have both. But love the k-hornet. 

ITS YOUR TURN!!!


----------



## Loke

This was the first reloadable handgun cartridge. It has a heel base bullet, similar to the 22LR.


----------



## mzshooter

Loke said:


> This was the first reloadable handgun cartridge. It has a heel base bullet, similar to the 22LR.


Is it a centerfire cartridge?


----------



## Loke

Yes, it is.


----------



## mzshooter

is it the 44-40?


----------



## Loke

The 44-40 was introduced as a rifle cartridge, and has an inside lubed (bullet fits inside the neck) bullet. It was introduced in 1873. The one that we're looking for was introduced in 1869 or 1870, and was a centerfire version of a rimfire rifle cartridge that "you could load on Sunday and shoot all week".


----------



## .45

.44 rimfire


----------



## mzshooter

Loke said:


> This was the first reloadable handgun cartridge. It has a heel base bullet, similar to the 22LR.


41 short Colt?


----------



## Loke

.45 said:


> .44 rimfire


That is the one that our cartridge is based on. The Army didn't want a rimfire, so this one was developed for the trials in it's place. There is an article about our cartridge in the latest issue of _Handloader_ magazine.


----------



## .45

.44 caliber


----------



## Loke

It is a 44 caliber. Which one? (hint: it has a country's name in its title.)


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> It is a 44 caliber. Which one? (hint: it has a country's name in its title.)


The .44 American....I would have guessed the Schofield.. :shock:


----------



## Loke

.45 said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a 44 caliber. Which one? (hint: it has a country's name in its title.)
> 
> 
> 
> The .44 American....I would have guessed the Schofield.. :shock:
Click to expand...

You are correct. It was originally called the 44/100, since its bullet was 44/100ths of an inch in diameter. The Russian military wanted an inside lubed bullet, so bullet diameter was reduced to fit inside the case. Then the case was lengthened in 1907 to create the 44 Special. It grew again in 1955, and the 44 Magnum was born.


----------



## .45

This caliber has what is called a _heeled bullet_..there may or may not be more than one caliber. I am thinking only of one.


----------



## Huge29

> Arguably, heeled bullets are still very common because, while very few calibers use them, the .22 Long Rifle does, and it is the most commonly used cartridge in the world. The other cartridges in the .22 Long Rifle family, the .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 CB and .22 BB, all use heeled bullets. A few other heeled bullet cartridges are available, but they all originated in the late 19th century.


----------



## .45

Huge29 said:


> Arguably, heeled bullets are still very common because, while very few calibers use them, the .22 Long Rifle does, and it is the most commonly used cartridge in the world. The other cartridges in the .22 Long Rifle family, the .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 CB and .22 BB, all use heeled bullets. A few other heeled bullet cartridges are available, but they all originated in the late 19th century.
Click to expand...

Jeez Huge29. :shock:  ....it looks like you just took that off the internet..!!! :mrgreen:

Is that your answer ?


----------



## Huge29

.45 said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arguably, heeled bullets are still very common because, while very few calibers use them, the .22 Long Rifle does, and it is the most commonly used cartridge in the world. The other cartridges in the .22 Long Rifle family, the .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 CB and .22 BB, all use heeled bullets. A few other heeled bullet cartridges are available, but they all originated in the late 19th century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jeez Huge29. :shock:  ....it looks like you just took that off the internet..!!! :mrgreen:
> 
> Is that your answer ?
Click to expand...

Yes, it was taken from my master' thesis, impressive huh? I thought I would provide the whole paragraph as your question left some room for flexibility as far as how many there were. Am I up?


----------



## .45

Huge29 said:


> Am I up?


You know you are...... :roll:


----------



## Huge29

It is currently the fastest production .22 caliber round in the world with muzzle velocities as high as 4,350 feet per second.

I am not able to login at work, so if you are confident in your answer, take a turn, however if you guess wrong, the wrath will be upon you :twisted: j/k, this should be a very easy one.


----------



## mzshooter

Huge29 said:


> It is currently the fastest production .22 caliber round in the world with muzzle velocities as high as 4,350 feet per second.


223 WSSM, if there still Considered poduction rounds? Try finding a new one!!
I have a 22-250 with 36 gr. Barnes Varmint Grenade clocked at 4,400 fps. Even Black Hills Gold Ammunition 22-250 Remington 36 Grain Barnes Varmint Grenade show a vel. of 4,300 fps for a factory load.


----------



## tapehoser

Wouldn't the 220 Swift meet/exceed those speeds?


----------



## Huge29

.223 WSSM was the first part of that quote; I can't argue one way or the other, simply a quote. Who's up?


----------



## Loke

I think that it is Mzshooter's turn.


----------



## NHS

I agree, it is mzshooter's turn.


----------



## mzshooter

This Cartridge was developed by Max B. Graff of American Fork After working with P.O. Ackley in SLC. It's a .243 Cal. Cartridge???? I think he actually bought P. O. out? And yes this is a wildcat cartridge if you need help Max is Randy Brooks (Barnes Bullets) uncle, and yes there has been right-ups about this cartridge, But not for a long time.


----------



## Loke

6-284?


----------



## mzshooter

Loke said:


> 6-284?


Nope its made off a 06' case.


----------



## Loke

243 super rock chucker?


----------



## mzshooter

Loke said:


> 243 super rock chucker?


Nope.
It also has a belt on it! Resembles a 240 Weatherby but its made with a -06' case. I have a RCBS catalog from 87' that lists the die set it was 135.00 back then, That's what you call custom dies.
By the way I have seen the cartridge, loaded for it, and shot one in 96'.
I wish this thing had spell check!!!


----------



## Loke

6mm belted express or Ackley belted express or belted Ackley express?


----------



## .45

243-06 ?


----------



## mzshooter

Loke said:


> 6mm belted express or Ackley belted express or belted Ackley express?


Nope!


----------



## mzshooter

.45 said:


> 243-06 ?


Nope!

last help!

6mm ________. Think of his name!!!!


----------



## tapehoser

6mm Ackley Improved?


----------



## Longgun

o-||


----------



## Mojo1

240 Weatherby?


----------



## mzshooter

mzshooter said:


> This Cartridge was developed by Max B. _*Graff*_ of American Fork After working with P.O. Ackley in SLC. It's a .243 Cal. Cartridge???? I think he actually bought P. O. out? And yes this is a wildcat cartridge if you need help Max is Randy Brooks (Barnes Bullets) uncle, and yes there has been right-ups about this cartridge, But not for a long time.


last help!

6mm ________. Think of his name!!!!


----------



## NHS

I'm going to go out on a limb here:

6mm graff?

I have googled it trying to find out something about it, but came up with nothing.


----------



## mzshooter

your right!!! That's why I picked this cartridge, you really had to do your homework. Or know Max!! or Randy!!

It's your turn!!!!


----------



## Longgun

oh ...hey just to clarify the ... o-|| ...isnt because i knew what the cartridge was and im being a smart *** not tellin that i do, ...its that i cant believe the gun knowledge of some of you folks 8) !


----------



## NHS

This cartridge was adopted as a service cartridge in 1888 in the Lee-Medford Mk I rifle and featured a 215 gr jacketed bullet over a charge of black powder. Later smokeless powder loads were used under a 174 grain spitzer during WWI.


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## mzshooter

NHS said:


> This cartridge was adopted as a service cartridge in 1888 in the Lee-Medford Mk I rifle and featured a 215 gr jacketed bullet over a charge of black powder. Later smokeless powder loads were used under a 174 grain spitzer during WWI.


Was it a 303 something.


----------



## NHS

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You always know Loke! :lol: I need to take away your Speer Reloading Manual number 11. Go ahead.


----------



## Loke

Actually its the Hornady third edition. How did you know I had the Speer number 11?


----------



## NHS

Loke said:


> Actually its the Hornady third edition. How did you know I had the Speer number 11?


Because I have the Speer number 13, and I figured you have been into reloading a couple of editions longer than I have.


----------



## Mojo1

mzshooter said:


> NHS said:
> 
> 
> 
> This cartridge was adopted as a service cartridge in 1888 in the Lee-Medford Mk I rifle and featured a 215 gr jacketed bullet over a charge of black powder. Later smokeless powder loads were used under a 174 grain spitzer during WWI.
> 
> 
> 
> Was it a 303 something.
Click to expand...

It is the 303 british Mark__
mark 1 thru mark 6 used the 215 gr bullets
Mark 7 switched to the 174 gr bullets
Mark 8 loads went to a 175 bullet.


----------



## NHS

You're up Mojojumbalya.


----------



## Mojo1

__ ________ was first introduced by the National Arms Company in 1863; it's was designed for use in a single shot.


----------



## tapehoser

.41 Rimfire?


----------



## Mojo1

tapehoser said:


> .41 Rimfire?


You're up!


----------



## tapehoser

Made by shortening and necking down .308 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield brass, this cartridge had bullets up to 100 grains and was invented _around_ 1938. Barnes used to make 70 and 90 grain bullets for this cartridge. Its caliber has no metric equivalent....that I can find, that is.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

25-06?


----------



## tapehoser

Hint: Invented by P.O. and these 70-100 grain bullets are *extremely* heavy for caliber.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.228 Ackley magnum?


----------



## tapehoser

You da man!!! TreeHugnhuntr's up!


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

YIPPEEEEE! Someone else go.


----------



## .45

Popularised in the 40's and 50's for kangaroo culling and pest control....what is this caliber ?


----------



## tapehoser

I would've said the 222 Rem, but I think it came out in the late 50's.

25-20 Winchester?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Most Australian wildcats are based on the .303, so I'm going to say .222 rem or 25/303.


----------



## .45

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Most Australian wildcats are based on the .303, so I'm going to say .222 rem or 25/303.


Who said anything about Australian stuff ?? :? 

It is the 25/.303...


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.45 said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most Australian wildcats are based on the .303, so I'm going to say .222 rem or 25/303.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about Australian stuff ?? :?
> 
> It is the 25/.303...
Click to expand...

Well, They sure as hell aren't shooting kangaroos in Michigan.

**Neck down a 10 mil to a nine mil and you would get this cartridge.


----------



## marksman

.357 sig?


----------



## tapehoser

Although I didn't come up with that question, the answer ".357 Sig" is correct.


----------



## marksman

This round is a Soviet round similar to the 7.63mm Mauser.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

tapehoser said:


> Although I didn't come up with that question, the answer ".357 Sig" is correct.


Not correct, Well, not the one I was looking for.


----------



## .45

.40 ? or 9x19 ?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Closer.


----------



## .45

9x25?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Even closer.


----------



## .45

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Even closer.


D,oh !!! *\-\* *\-\*


----------



## .45

My _final_ offer.....a .224BOZ


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

You were close enough.

9x25 Dillon.


----------



## .45

Thanks Tree....  

Winchester necked down to 7 mm (.284 caliber).


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

7-30 Waters?


----------



## .45

Treehugnhuntr said:


> 7-30 Waters?


Yes !! :evil:

You is up...


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

*Shhhhh!*

Fill in the blanks.

______________ necked up to .30 cal would give you this pistol cartridge, the .300______________ .


----------



## Huge29

*Re: Shhhhh!*

__221 Fireball____________ necked up to .30 cal would give you this pistol cartridge, the .300__Whisper____________ ?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Shhhhhh, You're up!


----------



## Huge29

It was the only commercial American designed cartridge until the advent of the .264 Winchester Magnum. Purportedly not as good for hunting as the .270 Winchester, it is still adequate for most all North American game.


----------



## marksman

.30 WCF?


----------



## Huge29

no, sir!


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

6mm Rem?


----------



## marksman

Huge29 said:


> It was the only commercial American designed cartridge until the advent of the .264 Winchester Magnum. Purportedly not as good for hunting as the .270 Winchester, it is still adequate for most all North American game.


Maybe I misunderstood your question.

Commercial: The .30 was developed as a sporting cartridge, sold, and chambered in commercial rifles.
American: Designed by Winchester for the JMB Winchester Model 1894.
Designed before the .264 RM: .30 WCF designed in 1895 the .264 RM designed in 1959.

As far as not being as good as the .270 but still adequate for most North American game there are a lot of people that would argue that is the case.


----------



## Huge29

Getting close; here is another clue:


> The .___ _______ rimless cartridge was developed by Charles ______ _(same as the second blank)_ and chambered in 1913 by the Western Cartridge Company. Basically it is a 6.5/06 (a .30-06 Springfield cartridge necked down to 6.5mm) with a different shoulder angle. As such, the two cartridges are not interchangeable.


----------



## tapehoser

6.5 Creedmoor?


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Huge29

No, to TH;

Loke, 
We need one more wrong guess, j/k go ahead. I'm sure that you know it, have you ever guessed wrong? Go ahead and take it as I will not be able to monitor for a few hours.


----------



## Loke

256 Newton?


----------



## Huge29

BINGO


----------



## Loke

This one is Charles Newton's most famous creation. It is also the reason for the 87 grain bullet weight.


----------



## Huge29

250-3000 Savage?


----------



## Loke

Huge29 said:


> 250-3000 Savage?


see, that was easy....


----------



## Huge29

Until the introduction of the .460 Smith and Wesson Magnum, and the .500 S&W Magnum, the .___ ________ was the most powerful commercially produced handgun round on the market, significantly eclipsing the newer .50 AE.


----------



## wyogoob

.454 Casull


----------



## Huge29

BINGO!!


----------



## wyogoob

I have this reloading die set, but can't find a barrel.

The caliber is between .12 and .23 and is named after a bug


----------



## Huge29

.218 Bee or .22 Hornet?


----------



## wyogoob

No, but good try


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.16 lady bug?


----------



## wyogoob

no


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

That was probably overly sarcastic.

.219 Donaldson Wasp.


----------



## wyogoob

No, try a smaller bug.


----------



## wyogoob

I'm off to work; 12 hours.


----------



## Loke

17 Bumblebee.


----------



## wyogoob

Sorry I'm late, long day.

17 bumblebee? No...never heard of that one.


----------



## .45

.17 Ackley Bee ?


----------



## wyogoob

No, smaller bug.


----------



## .45

.14 Flea ?


----------



## wyogoob

Hip, Hip, Hooray!!!!


Yes the .14 Flea....not in the reloading books.


My dies are Reddings.


----------



## .45

wyogoob said:


> Hip, Hip, Hooray!!!!
> Yes the .14 Flea....not in the reloading books.
> My dies are Reddings.


This caliber was possibly the first used for snipers in America.....what is the caliber and the rifle ?


----------



## Loke

Are you looking for the M1903A4? Chambered in the 30-06?


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> Are you looking for the M1903A4? Chambered in the 30-06?


Nope...way before that, used in America.


----------



## Huge29

SMLE Mk III?


----------



## Loke

Is the Whitworth what you are looking for. I fired a .45 caliber hexagonal bullet. Quite accurate, but very expensive. Cost almost $1000 with a scope and 1000 rounds in 1860. I wonder what that equates to in today's dollar? Probably slightly less than a tank of gas.


----------



## SingleShot man

Depends how far back you want to go...

The first ISSUED sniper arm was the Whitworth, circa 1803. Used by Jackson and his troops with relative success in the southern conflicts of the war of 1812 (1813-1814, actually). The Whitworth was a Brit arm, ordered by Secretary of the Navy and approved by Van Buren in 1804. Only about 1,000 were ordered, fewer than 2/3rds of that number received, and only about 100 of those pressed into service. The first model was .577 cal, changed to .450 halfway through production. The rifling wasn't very effective with the larger bore, so the smaller bore with a much longer 500 gr projectile was adopted. The Whitworths were then considered effective to 1000 yds (many titles at wimbledon were won with Whitworths).

Later, Christian Sharps developed what may be considered the first CARTRIDGE sniper arm-
.52 cal minie' ball wrapped in a cloth or tissue paper 'cartridge'. These were undergoing trials in 1860 by the Army, but were quickly adopted and issued after the Battle of Fort Sumter. It had become apparent that defending the Union was not going to be a walk in the park. The Sharp's was considered a cartridge arm because one simply stuffed the whole load, paper and all, into the breech. A knife-edged block severed the tail end of the cartridge, exposing the powder to ignition. The Sharp's could also be loaded from the muzzle. Again, an updated version of the Whitworth was also pressed into service along with Ballards, Remingtons, etc.
The Sharp's, though, was the TRULY sanctioned FIRST sniper arm (and its .52 cal paper patched conical with 65 grains of Fg or FFg).

1861 saw the introduction of the GI Springfield, some even with Unertl and Ajack telescopic sights in '64-'65. These had somewhat of an effect on the outcome of Bull Run and some of the later Southern conflicts. In Fact, Stonewall Jackson was killed by one of his own snipers in a fog bank- most likely with a captured Sharps or Springfield sniper arm.
of course, 1867 saw the introduction of the modified "Trapdoor" Springfield. Many were produced in a Sniper configuration. Some were used at the Wagon Box Fight, and at Adobe Walls.
Truly, though- sniping was pretty low on the agenda for the Army all the way up until WWI. No official training manual or unit was produced. 

So, i.e.: The 1917 Enfield, commisioned by the Navy as a anti-boarding weapon was the FIRST MODERN CARTRIDGE arm adopted for official sniper use. Ironically, by the Navy- but formed the basis of a new type of soldier, with a special skill: The Marine.

So, you asked kind of a vague question that could potentially have several answers. Pardon the preceding rant- but the First offical sniper arm/cartridge of the US military, along with training and tactics to go with it-
1917 Enfield with 6X Ajack scope and lace-on cheekpad, cal .30-06 of course. A rudimentary flash hider was adopted, then discarded. The 03A3 was configured later by the Army, but not before the Enfield.


----------



## Loke

Or you could go back to Roger's Rangers of the French and Indian war era. There were others who used those tactics as early as there were European settlers on this continent.


----------



## .45

SingleShot man said:


> So, you asked kind of a *vague question that could potentially have several answers.* Pardon the preceding rant- but the First offical sniper arm/cartridge of the US military, along with training and tactics to go with it-
> 1917 Enfield with 6X Ajack scope and lace-on cheekpad, cal .30-06 of course. A rudimentary flash hider was adopted, then discarded. The 03A3 was configured later by the Army, but not before the Enfield.


There could be a lot of answers, it depends on who history's you read........however, it's not the answer I was looking for, so _no_ to all...


----------



## SingleShot man

Quite true- 
I assumed three stipulations to qualify my post...

1. Issued by the United States.

2. A regular unit or sanctioned training manual that taught its use and tactics

3. produced, modified, or designed specifically for sniper duty- sights and cheek pieces were the most common mods.

Many non 'sniper' rifles were used in that role at various times. Can't really qualify them as 'sniper rifles' though.

If that weren't the case, then its fairly simple- the Pennsylvania or Kentucky rifle. Most were .40 or .45 cal. Oh-Jaegers too. But larger bore.


----------



## .45

I was just re-writing my post SingleShot...I took your info and dug a little deeper. The article I have said the .45 cal. Kentucky Rifle was the first _true_ sniper rifle used, and used first during the Civil War.

However, I believe your info is better than mine... 

I believe it's your turn...


----------



## SingleShot man

Just HOW obscure should we get here?

Ummm-
Okay, first hint- NOT a Wildcat.
Introduced BEFORE 1873, but obsolete by 1890
Buffalo Bill Cody's pet rifle, named 'Lucretia Borgia' was chambered in this round. Used it during his meat-getter days for the Army.
Specifics will be much appreciated!

Extra Credit-

1. Who was Lucretia Borgia?

Extra Extra Credit-
(just for fun)

2. Smokeless powder round developed by Winchester that was intended to be reloaded with black powder, but without excessive bore fouling or diminished accuracy (this and the afore-mentioned round are unrelated).


----------



## Loke

Sorry, I forgot.


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Huge29

SingleShot man said:


> Just HOW obscure should we get here?
> 
> Ummm-
> Okay, first hint- NOT a Wildcat.
> Introduced BEFORE 1873, but obsolete by 1890
> Buffalo Bill Cody's pet rifle, named 'Lucretia Borgia' was chambered in this round. Used it during his meat-getter days for the Army.
> Specifics will be much appreciated!
> 
> Extra Credit-
> 
> 1. Who was Lucretia Borgia?


Lucretia Borgia was a .48-caliber trapdoor Springfield rifle owned by Buffalo Bill Cody.

Lucrezia Borgia (April 18, 1480 - June 24, 1519) was the daughter of Rodrigo Borgia, the powerful Renaissance Valencian who later became Pope Alexander VI, and Vannozza dei Cattanei. Her brothers included Cesare Borgia, Giovanni Borgia, and Gioffre Borgia.


----------



## SingleShot man

Bravo!!!

any bites on the second 'extra credit'?
If not, it's 29's turn.


----------



## .45

.44 Rimfire ? 

I'm just trying to help out Loke... :mrgreen:


----------



## Loke

32 Winchester Special


----------



## SingleShot man

Loke has it...

Rock, paper, scissors w/ H29 for next...


----------



## Loke

This one was designed for NRA silhouette shooting, in the hunter pistol class. It has the required straight walled case, and was intended to produce a minimal amount of recoil. It fires a 115 grain bullet at around 1500 fps.


----------



## SingleShot man

Rimmed, rebated, or rimless?

I'd otherwise guess 9x23, but that's an IPSC round.


----------



## Loke

Rimmed. Based on the Hornet case.


----------



## SingleShot man

.35 Herret!

4.35* slope, but straight wall.

Contender round, co-developed by Bob Milek, right?


----------



## Loke

Nope. Developed in 1985 by Charles Rensing and Jim Rock. Guns were/are available from T/C, Merrill, and RPM. Smaller than 30 caliber.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.270 REN. .22 hornet necked up to .270.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Made by P.O. Ackley in the sixties.

This cartridge was built to try and beat the 5000 fps mark.


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

> quote][quote:zi6upayi]Loke.


[/quote:zi6upayi]


----------



## Loke

What?


----------



## Finnegan

17-222 magnum?


----------



## Loke

It's a 22, has a German-sounding name. Am I close?


----------



## NHS

Loke said:


> It's a 22, has a German-sounding name. Am I close?


22 Hiemlick manuver?


----------



## Huge29

.22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer.


----------



## wyogoob

17 Ackley Hornet


----------



## Huge29

I am about 99.9% certain that my answer is correct, Loke obviously already knew it and was just trying to give us amateurs a shot; go ahead Loke, I believe U R up.


----------



## NHS

So what was the answer? :?:


----------



## Huge29

Huge29 said:


> .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer.


 Loke was referring to the German sounding name; it is actually just a name that they made up with his mate...I forget his name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackley
read under "other research"


----------



## Huge29

I will go as Loke has not taken the chance nor has the previous poster replied; here it is:
This caliber floats a 40 gr bullet at just over 4,000 fps; the round ceased production in 1971 by Winchester.


----------



## wyogoob

225 Winchester


----------



## Huge29

Correct, your turn.


----------



## wyogoob

1st the 30-40 Krag, then the ?????, then the 30-06


----------



## Huge29

30-03?


----------



## wyogoob

Yes, you got it.


Give us another one.


----------



## Huge29

Sorry guys, forgot to check: 
The ____ ________ rifle cartridge is a black powder cartridge that was introduced by Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Company in 1872 as a buffalo (American bison) hunting round.


----------



## wyogoob

45-120


----------



## .45

50-90 Sharps


----------



## Huge29

.45 said:


> 50-90 Sharps


Ding, ding, ding, winner winner chicken dinner! -()/>-


----------



## smokin577

Here is one for you guys


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.577 T-rex? Glad you got the photo to work.

T


----------



## smokin577

Thank you for helping to understand how to post pictures. But your Off not too far but off.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

.600 nitro?


----------



## SingleShot man

.505 Gibbs...


----------



## Loke

458 Lott. The Nitro is a rimmed cartridge, and the Gibbs and T-Rex have shoulders. This one looks too long to be the 458 Win. So my guess is the Lott.


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> 458 Lott. The Nitro is a rimmed cartridge, and the Gibbs and T-Rex have shoulders. This one looks too long to be the 458 Win. So my guess is the Lott.


I would imagine Loke is correct .....you shoot one of these don't you smokin577 ??


----------



## smokin577

Loke Is right and yes this is my "ELK" round(was the only way I could talk my wife in to the purchase. I am not sure how to explain the Ruger Number one .416 Remm Mag that I put on order thought.


----------



## Huge29

smokin577 said:


> Loke Is right and yes this is my "ELK" round(was the only way I could talk my wife in to the purchase. I am not sure how to explain the Ruger Number one .416 Remm Mag that I put on order thought.


World peace? That would be my reason; every beauty pageant contestant wants it, what better way than to have more arms or big sticks than to keep the peace?


----------



## Loke

This one was introduced in 1964. It was intended to be both a law enforcement and hunting round. It never became popular for either.


----------



## .45

.41 Magnum ?


----------



## Loke

That was easy. You're up.


----------



## .45

In the mid 1800's these partners developed a lever action pistol. The company name was the same name as the nickname of the pistol. Who are these guys? And what was the company name?


----------



## Loke

Loke said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loke said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OH! OH! I KNOW!!!! CALL ON ME!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## .45

Uh.....H&R ?
Nope
Uh.... H&H ?
Nope
Uh... Loke & Son ?
Nope

Well, that's three wrong guesses Loke...have at her !!


----------



## wyogoob

Heckler & Koch


----------



## scattergunner

.45 said:


> In the mid 1800's these partners developed a lever action pistol. The company name was the same name as the nickname of the pistol. Who are these guys? And what was the company name?


I had to research it myself, so I won't spill the beans. But .45, what is it with you and Steve McQueen references? :wink: Speaking of, KUED had "The Thomas Crown Affair" on the other night when I should have been sleeping but couldn't.


----------



## .45

It's not H&K Goob..

scattergunner...not sure, I must have watched a lot of Steve McQueen movies, I watched The Great Escape again the other night... 

btw...go ahead and spill the beans..


----------



## scattergunner

I feel _dirty_ claiming any sort of actual knowledge, so here's what wikipedia says...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare's_Leg


----------



## .45

scattergunner said:


> I feel _dirty_ claiming any sort of actual knowledge, so here's what wikipedia says...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare's_Leg


I wish I could own the 'Mare'... 

Don't feel too dirty, that's _not _ the pistol I had in mind... :|


----------



## scattergunner

Really? I thought the _"Wanted: Dead or Alive"_ referrence was a dead give-away. :lol:


----------



## wyogoob

Smith & Wesson

Volcanic Repeating Arms


----------



## .45

wyogoob said:


> Smith & Wesson
> 
> Volcanic Repeating Arms


That's the one I was think'in about !!


----------



## wyogoob

I have shot 2 deer with this round. It has a 350 grain projectile.



I am off to work; be back in 13 hours.

Good luck


----------



## .45

45-70 ?


----------



## wyogoob

Not the 45-70.

This round is seldom, if ever, used in Utah for deer.


----------



## .45

12 gauge shotgun slug ?


----------



## wyogoob

No, but close.


----------



## Loke

416? Remington? or Weatherby?


----------



## scattergunner

00 Buck? Of course, that would tehnically be _projectile*s*_.


----------



## wyogoob

Loke said:


> 416? Remington? or Weatherby?


Not the .416


----------



## wyogoob

scattergunner said:


> 00 Buck? Of course, that would tehnically be _projectile*s*_.


Not "00" buck shot either.


----------



## scattergunner

wyogoob said:


> scattergunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 00 Buck? Of course, that would tehnically be _projectile*s*_.
> 
> 
> 
> Not "00" buck shot either.
Click to expand...

4 Buck, perhaps?


----------



## .45

.375 H&H ?


----------



## wyogoob

scattergunner said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scattergunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 00 Buck? Of course, that would tehnically be _projectile*s*_.
> 
> 
> 
> Not "00" buck shot either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 4 Buck, perhaps?
Click to expand...

No, it's a solid projectile.


----------



## wyogoob

.45 said:


> .375 H&H ?


Not the .375 H&H


----------



## .45

Is this out of handgun goob?


----------



## smokin577

Muzzy .62 Cal or something close?


----------



## Loke

458 Win.? Or 450 Marlin?


----------



## wyogoob

smokin577 said:


> Muzzy .62 Cal or something close?


Not a muzzleloader, but good try.


----------



## wyogoob

Loke said:


> 458 Win.? Or 450 Marlin?


Good try but no..........Ouch! I have shot a 458 Winchester


----------



## wyogoob

One more time:

.45 said


.45 said:


> 12 gauge shotgun slug ?


I said "No but close."

I gotta go to work; be back in 5 hours.


----------



## Loke

16 gage slug?


----------



## wyogoob

Loke said:


> 16 gage slug?


*Yes sir, you betcha, Loke for Vice-President!!!! *

I shoot a 4/5 oz lead projectile out of my 16 gauge shotgun for whitetails.

437.5 grains in an ounce (standard measure). 4/5 of 437.5 = 350


----------



## Loke

I get to be the president of vices?

This cartridge has "to prepare for war" (or "for war" depending on your Latin skills) in its name.


----------



## .45

9mm Parabellum ?


----------



## Loke

I've got to come up with some harder ones. .45, you're up.


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> I've got to come up with some harder ones. .45, you're up.


The answer was actually in some old movie I watched years ago. 

The assets to what gun company where bought by Zilkha & Co in the early 90's ?


----------



## Loke

I did not know this one.


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> I did not know this one.


 :shock: :shock:

:lol:


----------



## Loke

But I did look it up, and I know it now.  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> But I did look it up, and I know it now.  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:


Dang !! :evil:


----------



## wyogoob

IT'S HARD TO COME UP WITH A ROUND YOU CAN'T GOOGLE


----------



## Loke

If no one else is going to guess, I'll say Colt's Manufacturing Company.


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> If no one else is going to guess, I'll say Colt's Manufacturing Company.


See ? Not too tough !! 

I don't understand why goob was yelling at us :? :mrgreen:


----------



## Loke

It's like when people that are hard of hearing talk louder so that you can hear them better.

Here's one that Google won't help him with.

Based on the Hornet case, shortened to 1.05 inches, and blown out to a straight wall to hold a .277 inch bullet. Designed to fire a 75 grain cast bullet at around 1400 fps from a six inch barreled Ruger Single-Six.


----------



## wyogoob

I don't understand why goob was yelling at us :? :mrgreen:[/quote]

I didn't mean to yell


----------



## wyogoob

Loke said:


> It's like when people that are hard of hearing talk louder so that you can hear them better.
> 
> Here's one that Google won't help him with.
> 
> Based on the Hornet case, shortened to 1.05 inches, and blown out to a straight wall to hold a .277 inch bullet. Designed to fire a 75 grain cast bullet at around 1400 fps from a six inch barreled Ruger Single-Six.


Wow, this is a goodun Loke. Makes my cooling fan come on when I run a Google search!


----------



## .45

Loke......is it that weird .30 cal. handgun Ruger came out with in the late 60's ?


----------



## Loke

Here's a hint.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6076&p=72385&hilit=wildcat#p72385


----------



## .45

A Lokemeister .277 ?


----------



## Loke

That's a good enough name. I never did come up with a name. It is intended to fill the gap between the 22 Mag, and the 32 Mag in the Single-Six. Should make a great squirrel gun. Maybe someday I'll get it built.


----------



## Loke

This one was developed by Griffen and Howe, and named in honor of one of the most popular writers of the day.


----------



## Loke

Back to the top. It's a medium bore.


----------



## .45

Loke said:


> This one was developed by Griffen and Howe, and named in honor of one of the most popular writers of the day.


I'm thinking Hemingway....but are we looking for a caliber or a firearm ? :?

Sorry Loke, it's been a long time and now I'm lost ....


----------



## Loke

We're looking for the cartridge. It once was a wildcat, until Remington got hold of it.


----------



## wyogoob

I've been gone for awhile.


.257 Roberts is my guess, Loke


----------



## Loke

Good guess, but wrong. Remington standardized this round in 1987.


----------



## Huge29

R2 Lovell a.k.a. 22/3000?


----------



## wyogoob

.35 Whelen


----------



## Huge29

wyogoob said:


> .35 Whelen


I think you have it Goober, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.35_Whelen


----------



## wyogoob

Testing, testing, testing.....Loke are you there?


----------



## Huge29

wyogoob said:


> Testing, testing, testing.....Loke are you there?


Just go, you definitely had the correct answer.


----------



## Loke

wyogoob said:


> .35 Whelen


Finally. you're up.


----------



## wyogoob

That was a goodun' Loke.


This caliber was only around for 5 years then discontinued in the mid 70s. Only 3 firearms were made for this one; 2 by Remington and 1 by Thompson Center.


----------



## .45

7 X 30 Waters ?


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## wyogoob

Not the 7 x 30 Waters, no.


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## .45

.30 Herrett ?


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## wyogoob

No, I don't think Remington ever offered the .30 Herrett. 

sorry


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## .45

wyogoob said:


> No, I don't think Remington ever offered the .30 Herrett.
> 
> sorry


Jeez..crap !!


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## Loke

is it a rimfire?


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## .45

The 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum


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## wyogoob

YES! 

Good Job, the 5mm mag, (.205 caliber)

I have one; an excellent condition Remington 592. After 25 years of absense, a company called Centurion is making the ammo again.


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## .45

wyogoob said:


> YES!
> 
> Good Job, the 5mm mag, (.205 caliber)
> 
> I have one; an excellent condition Remington 592. After 25 years of absense, a company called Centurion is making the ammo again.


I remember those !! :shock:

Post another wyogoob? I hafta take off for awhile..


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## Loke

Wyogoob, have you ever done a comparison to the 22 mag and 17HMR? I would love to hear how they compare. Especially on prairie dogs at 200 yards.


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## wyogoob

Loke said:


> Wyogoob, have you ever done a comparison to the 22 mag and 17HMR? I would love to hear how they compare. Especially on prairie dogs at 200 yards.


Yes I have compared the two. Here's the best comparsion via Google: http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

Those HMR poly tip bullets are deadly on prairie dogs but tear up cottontails bad. (yes, I do aim for the head.....till I get tired of missing)

I am going to compare the 5mm mag to the 22 mag and the 17 HMR soon. The new 5mm mag rimfires (30 grain Centurions) go out at 2300 fps! The old ones (38 grain Remingtons) sure tore up prairie dogs and rabbits; I am anxious to try the new 5mm mags out.


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## Loke

I think they would do well with a 25 grain tipped (V-Max) bullet. I'm all about tearing up the prairie dogs.


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## wyogoob

I have used this time-honored round at work.

It is now illegal for certain types of hunting.

Remington and Winchester still make the ammo.


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## .45

Rifled Slugs for a 12 gauge ?


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## wyogoob

No............but close.


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## .45

16 gauge ?


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## wyogoob

No.


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## woollybugger

8 Gauge.


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## wyogoob

Yes, the 8 gauge is a common industrial round.

There's special slugs for shooting slag off of of boilers and kilns:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammun ... n_guns.asp

Even special guns:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammun ... nition.asp

You're up Woolly


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## woollybugger

This cartridge has a bore of 0.550" and is used in a popular 4 gun event. (it's an easy one!)


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## wyogoob

Yes, I own two of these. But I don't want to go next; too busy to stay with posts.


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## Huge29

.550 magnum


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## .45

28 gauge black powder


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## woollybugger

> 28 gauge black powder
> 28 gauge black powder


Yes... sort of. Not really black bowder, though they all started out that way.

And, what is the 4 gun event responsible for keeping this wonderful gauge alive?


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## Loke

Skeet.


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## .45

I'm thinking the SASS shooting event. 

Rifle, shotgun, two pistols. But I'm not sure.. :?


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## Loke

Skeet. 12, 20, 28 gage, and .410 bore shotgun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeet_shooting


> These include four events shot as described in the preceding paragraph, each with a different maximum permissible gauge. In the usual descending order in which the events are shot, these maximum gauges are 12, 20, 28 and .410 bore.


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## .45

Loke ??!!!

You're just like a cougar ! You just wait and wait and then you pounce all over the question. You've known that all along.


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## Loke

When introduced in the Borchardt pistol, this cartridge had the highest muzzle velocity of any handgun round.


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## Huge29

7.62x25mm?


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## Loke

How picky do we want to be? I was looking for the Mauser variant, the 30 Mauser (AKA 7.63x25). There is also the 7.65x25 Borchardt, and the 7.62x25 Tokarev. They are dimensionally similar, but loaded to different pressures.


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## Huge29

This round was an experimental 7 mm cartridge developed for the US Army and used in the Pedersen rifle and early versions of what would become the M1 Garand rifle.


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## ut1031

276 Pederson


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## Huge29

ut1031 said:


> 276 Pederson


ding ding ding we have a winner


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## Huge29

Alive from the dead:
Like most of his other magnum cartridges, this is based on a blown-out .300 H&H Magnum case, using the signature _______ (the second part of the name of this caliber) double-radius shoulder.


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## wyogoob

weatherby


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## Loke

Which caliber are you looking for? The 257, 270, 7mm, are based on a shortened 300 H&H. The 300, 340, and 375 are on the full length 300 H&H case.


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## Huge29

I was looking for 300 Weatherby Magnu; one of you guys go.


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## Loke

Name the Weatherby cartridge that was *not* the fastest in its caliber when it was introduced.


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## wyogoob

375


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## NHS

.243 Win


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## Loke

No, and no. 

It was introduced in a scaled-down version of the Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle.


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## wyogoob

.224


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## Loke

.224 Weatherby Magnum it is.


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## wyogoob

This round uses only the primer to push the projectile.


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## Loke

I know....


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## wyogoob

Loke said:


> I know....


There's 2 of them. Do you know both?


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## Loke

yep.


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## Huge29

Loke,
Can you just send me a PM? I only need one of the answers, but seriously is there a possible clue that does not give it away? Is it a real hunting firearm? I have never heard of such a thing; is it an obscure thing?


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## wyogoob

Huge29 said:


> Loke,
> Can you just send me a PM? I only need one of the answers, but seriously is there a possible clue that does not give it away? Is it a real hunting firearm? I have never heard of such a thing; is it an obscure thing?


Obscure, maybe for out here. I have a box or 2 in the basement. Seen them at Sportsman's Wharehouse awhile back.


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## .45

.22 Colibri ?


----------



## wyogoob

Yes, the Colibri is a type of .22 rimfire CB cap. Aguila's new CB cap comes in a long rifle case instead of the typical .22 rimfire short case. "Colibri" is Spanish for hummingbird.

The other round is a .22 BB rimfire, or as some called it the .22 BB cap, invented in 1845. It was the fisrt rimfire round ever. I never seen them for sale on the shelf. My guess is they were replaced by the CB cap. Look for them at gun shows.

When I was growing up the CB cap was readily available. It was cheaper than .22 short and easily dispatched rabbits and feral cats around our barnyard. The round made very little noise making it's use within city limits on yard or garden pests like opposums, raccoons, rats, and the neighbor's cat, popular.



You're up 45.


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## .45

Don't kid yourself about these little fireball's.... the .22 Colibri..
I shot almost a case of these in my basement at a Yellow Book, they penetrated up to page 348 from about 12' away.....pretty powerful little bullet with a no powder primer...  
My wife, upstair's, didn't even know I was shooting....

I'm up ? Somebody got a question ? Go ahead, I'm outa stuff !! :?


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## Loke

The 22 BB, and/or CB cap is the modern incarnation of the original self-contained cartridge. It was called the 22 Flobert. It was a percussion cap with a 22 caliber ball stuffed in the end. It was developed as a "parlor gun", meant to be fired indoors. Don't ask me why I know these things.


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## wyogoob

fatbass said:


> I was at work and couldn't respond here in time to win the Buick but I've had the privilege of firing a few old "gallery guns" that were chambered for the BB cap. It was like shooting a pellet gun but with the intoxicating smell of burnt propellant.
> 
> In a similar vein I prime .38 spl cases with a magnum primer and push the open end of the brass into wax or soap and blaze away in my garage and basement. A plug of soap can penetrate 1/2 inch drywall at 6 feet! :mrgreen:


Amazing, never heard of such a thing.

I left the powder out of a 25-06, 85 grain reload. Shot it and the bullet went up the barrel about 1/4". I tried to push it back out the breach and it went poorly for me and the barrel.


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## SingleShot man

Due to: 
long barrel
large case
anemic primer (most older 'small-std.' rifle primers are)
dirty barrel? (maybe, doubtful.)
Insufficient pressure.
Don't do that again.

The trick here is to add a pinch of smokeless powder to the detonation source.
3 grs of Unique, OR
7 grs of Herco 2400, OR
6 grs of Blue Dot
Rour candle wax into a thimble; only coating the sides.
Invert the wax (thimble) mold.
Pack 4-5 #3 buck into resulting wax capsules( #3 buck pellets= .22 cal. Yp. Load over aforementioned powder charges.
Wow.
Buckshot from a pistol.
Do it again ! Do it again! Yay!
#3 buck= .22 cal projectile, 32 grs.
payload- nearly 10 bullets @ 950 fps, each producing the kinetic equivalent of a .22 short. That ****'s actually quite deadly; at short (defensive) ranges.
Try it.


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