# What is CWMU?



## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

I have been reading the topic about CWMU and public land disputes. I did not want to hijack that thred so i started this one. I'm not an experinced hunter mostly a fisherman. I'm interested in hunting and read a lot of post on this web site. My question is What is CWMU and why do we have it? From my limited understand, the CWMU is private land where people can get legal tags to hunt for a price. But by law the land owners have to allow a small number of regular hunters to hunt the land also as part of the deal. But from the posts I have read it seems that money talks and the the common man is getting the shaft. It sounds like more and more "public" land is being absorbed by the CWMU operations. So what is the up side, unless your a CWMU owner? Why does the DWR support this program? :?:


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

"Cooporative Wildlife Mangament Unit".
These are private ranches within a region that have huntable numbers of wildlife on them.
The state issues a certain number of tags to the owner, in lieu that landowner has to allow so many public hunters through the draw system to access the lands for hunting.
Most are really good properties to hunt!


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

The upside of the CWMU program is that it allows for more big game habitat and less development. The owners that enroll in the program allow the DWR to manage the game on the land and they agree to not devlop the land. You can find out all the info at this site:
http://www.cwmuutahwildlife.org

Basically the CWMU program is a way for Greedy rich land owners to sell hunting permits for 100 times more than they are worth, and screw over the public hunters that wait 5-10 years to draw a great tag. Just my opinion


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

HJB said:


> The upside of the CWMU program is that it allows for more big game habitat and less development. The owners that enroll in the program allow the DWR to manage the game on the land and they agree to not devlop the land. You can find out all the info at this site:
> http://www.cwmuutahwildlife.org
> 
> Basically the CWMU program is a way for *Greedy rich land owners to sell hunting permits for 100 times more than they are worth, and screw over the public hunters that wait 5-10 years to draw a great tag.* Just my opinion


And without the CWMU program they would still sell permits for 100 times more than they are worth and poor public hunters would never have a chance to hunt the property. I don't understand your reasoning of how they screw over public hunter that have waited 5-10 years for a great tag. If you are putting in for any tag for that long I would think you would know what's going on in the unit you apply.

Feel free to enlighten me.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Go to the search engine and type in "CWMU", you will find countless experiences of people who have been totally screwed over by CWMU owners. Many people like myself research these prime hunting lands and contact the owners for info. Most of the operators are very helpful until you actually draw the tag. The public pays $40 for a tag that usually costs $5000 or more. The operators are not about to let some public guy with a $40 tag in his pocket get to where the big bucks are. They know the bigger the buck the bigger the price tag and tip, so why let some public weener shoot the bigguns???
It's all a big business, and the owners want the money. Letting a big buck go for free, is pretty hard for them to watch. That's why the CWMU program sucks. They get everbodys hopes up and then shoot them down when they draw the tag.
There are very few CWMUs that treat the public decently and provide the same hunt as a paying customer. That's why I have no respect for the program. There isn't alot of research you can do other than trust a guy you have never met to give you your dream hunt. You don't get to scout, most the time you don't even get to see the property until your hunt. All the paying clients get to hunt first, and in some cases areas are shut down to the public hunters.
Like I said, it's a business
Never compare a CWMU to a LE! They are nothing alike!


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Yes, I have read alot of bad experiences at CWMU's, I wonder if anyone has any good experiences?

I see it a little different. The land is not available to the average joe without the CWMU, where when it is in a CWMU "some" average joe's do get to hunt the land.

The rule say that the public draw has to have the same opportunity to hunt as the private tags. This is somewhat vague and only means they can hunt the same area and the same number of days. The landowner can restrict travel to foot only and can set the days that the public can hunt. They don't have to give you time to scout though some do. So if a private tag is for 5 days the public get 5 days, but the landowner can say what days. I would think that a CWMU hunt would be iffy but if you have the time and the stamina I think some of them could be a great hunt.

I think if the CWMU operators are not following the rules that they should be shut down.

It must not be real bad because it seems the tags always sell, but I guess that they could all be ignorant of the situation. I would like to know anyone who has hunted a CWMU and still puts in for the same one again.

I still have a problem with public land being absorbed into a CWMU.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

like the ole say to each there own. i have hunted a couple of cwmu s deseret for elk , deer
and antelope and was very pleased especially on the buck an bull hunts we participated in
i cannot think of a unit that try s harder to get you your animals than that cwmu and if by
chanch you dont like hunting from a vehicle on the late hunts than by all means dont put in
for it. the last time i checked there was no b/c recordes for antlerless animals its a MEAT hunt and there tring to reduce number to keep in line with the herd objective numbers


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

I do agree that most CWMUs offer great hunts for antlerless game. There is no competition and it's all public guys that get to do it. So for the kids and meat hunters, the CWMUs can really be fun. In some cases, the antlered game hunts can be very sucessful as well. Yes, Deseret is one of the few very accomodating CWMUs. But for the most part I think it's a business that doesn't like giving away free tags and accomodating people that don't pay them anything.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Under the old system HJB may have been somewhat correct, but under the new version of the CWMU program will be more equitable.

Public hunters now know, BEFORE the apply, what the hunt dates are. Satisfaction rates. Many have age data. Public hunters must receive a minimum of 5 days to hunt antlered game and 2 days to hunt antlerless. Public hunters must be allowed to hunt the entire CWMU (unless the CWMU has a designated rest area which no hunter is allowed to hunt). Public hunters recieved over 20 or so more bull moose permits over a 3 year period. 

Public hunters should always-- Report CWMUs problems. Report CWMU positives. 

I also want to address one topic HJB brought up "Greedy rich land owners". While some CWMUs are owned by wealthy people, many are owned by long-time ranch families. These are people that may seem rich, but many are dirt rich and cash poor. CWMUs allow these ranchers to recieve a benefit from the game animals which inhabit their property. By seeing a value in wildlife, CWMUs do not get compensation from depredating animals, and the grow more animals than they would have without the CWMU.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Good post Packout...good to see someone with some REAL insight post up on the CWMU. Thanks.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> Good post Packout...good to see someone with some REAL insight post up on the CWMU. Thanks.


+1 Good explination by Packout. It has been a few years since our property was involved with a CWMU and the rules have become better it seems.

FWIW.... When our property was involved with a CWMU, if the public draw contacted me I would personally take them up before the hunt, show them where some wallows were and the canyons that usually held elk. We wanted them to get big elk because the word of mouth was the best advertising and would increase the value of the private permits.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I think the thing most CWMU operators wanted was the longer hunting seasons they get(3-4 months). You can only pack so many hunters onto an area when the season is only 10 days or so long...so...they lobbied and get a longer season...maybe you could call them longer business hours... which allowed them to sell many more tags and meet their clients desires better. Basically, the longer season made the private hunting club possible in Utah. I have mixed feeling about CWMU's but I guess they are alright because many ranchers that at one time killed elk on sight now see them as an asset and are starting to manage their property to accommodate wildlife. The new rules about how the "public hunter" is treated are great and with help to make the CWMU's more acceptable to most hunters.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> because many ranchers that at one time killed elk on sight now see them as an asset and are starting to manage their property to accommodate wildlife.


Good point, also all the animals don't stay on the CWMU the entire time so the better they are managed the better for the whole unit.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Are CWMUs incorporated into the _Teaming With Wildlife_ program?


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

I have a hard time believing that someone who owns piece of land worth over $10 million and charges $10,000 to hunt a animal is "Poor". Come on now, you expect me to feel sorry for the poor land owners in the CWMU program???
Sorry buddy, but those guys are far from "Poor", and they are most definitley "Greedy". 
The main goal for the CWMU program is to "Provide the public with the same opprotunities as the private clients". To achive this they planned a goal of "Balancing the split ratios".
Do you know what the current split ratios are for elk and deer??? 90% Private party - 10% Public 
Looks like the goal was never met and probably never will be met, and why you ask??? Because who wants to give away tags worth $10,000 for $45??? That's called greed sir.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Are you serious? HJB, you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about? Some people will never be happy unless they are complaining and I am sure your fit in that category. The facts mean nothing to you so there is not much point in having this discussion. However, 90+% of the state is NOT a CWMU. Enjoy!


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

:lol: I don't understand???
Apparently you don't know what a "Split Ratio" is? It's not the private land vs the Public land. It's the amount of private TAGS vs Public TAGS. The private gets 90% of the tags issued and the public gets 10%. So far Deseret is the only CWMU to accomodate the public on Split Ratios.
I have done extensive research and attended several meetings on the CWMU topic, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm taking about. You can argue with me all you want, but I have presented the facts. That's all there is to it.
If you want to find out what a "Split Ratio" is and what the goals are, go to the website and read up on it.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Out of the two of us I am the only one that does understand. There are small amounts of public land incorporated into SOME the CWMU's...so what, now you feel entitled? These are PRIVATE lands. You apparently feel entitled to a larger ratio of the "split ratios". Why should anybody give you something that isn't yours? If you want to hunt a CWMU either buy a tag, or put in for one in the draw. If not hunt the other 98% of that state that isn't CWMU.

Before this program these were lands that had zero access to public hunters not willing or able to pay for access. The way I see it the CWMU program has given many more opportunities to "average" hunters. Opportunities that were never there before. Opportunities to hunt LE quality animals without waiting half a lifetime to draw...so what's the problem? :roll:


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

The problem is them saying one thing and doing another. If they are going to treat the public like crap and give them crappy hunts, they shouldn't have enrolled in the program in the first place, but they are greedy so they had to.
If all CWMUs were run like Deseret, I wouldn't complain one bit. You and I both know that they are not run like Deseret. I have had many bad experiences and know of many others. 
I hope this year will turn it all around, like Packout said. But for some reason, I'm not so sure it will change. 
Yes, we are lucky to have additional opprotunities, but if they don't benefit us and just cause problems for the public, then there's not much to get excited about. I want to support the program, but it does not have a history of pleasing the public as it should.
I have had this aurgument way too many times, and yes I have complained way too much and nothing has changed. So I'm done with this thing. You win :roll:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't know about winning...but, yes I am sure there are some poorly managed units out there. I don't know EVERY CWMU operator out there but my gut feeling is this is the exception rather than the rule. If you have a bad experience don't hunt there again and put in a formal complaint. I am sure the program isn't perfect but a work in progress. Good luck on your hunts this year.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

I am no expert in this area, but most people I have talked with had good experiences on the CWMU hunts. Some are worse than others, but overall I would say it is more opportunity, plus if you research ahead of time you know what you are getting with whatever CWMU you are putting in for.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

good point jahan. I don't understand anyone having *many* bad experiences. If I had one I would not put in again. And who has the luck to draw many times anyway?


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

bwhntr said:


> I don't know about winning...but, yes I am sure there are some poorly managed units out there. I don't know EVERY CWMU operator out there but my gut feeling is this is the exception rather than the rule. If you have a bad experience don't hunt there again and put in a formal complaint. I am sure the program isn't perfect but a work in progress. Good luck on your hunts this year.


Good luck to you as well
I guess I need to research a few more of the CWMUs, but most of the ones I have researched and been on are crap! I shouldn't speak for all of them out there, because I'm sure there are some good ones. But there are also some that really need some improvement. I hope the program gets better and we can get to where everybody is happy with the program. I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to make this program work, but it's all in the operators hands. Until they can respect the average hunter, it won't work.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> Good luck to you as well
> I guess I need to research a few more of the CWMUs, but most of the ones I have researched and been on are crap! I shouldn't speak for all of them out there, because I'm sure there are some good ones. But there are also some that really need some improvement. I hope the program gets better and we can get to where everybody is happy with the program. I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to make this program work, but it's all in the operators hands. Until they can respect the average hunter, it won't work.


Can't argue with that.

Good post!


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## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

HJB


> Good luck to you as well
> I guess I need to research a few more of the CWMUs, *but most of the ones I have researched and been on are crap!* I shouldn't speak for all of them out there, because I'm sure there are some good ones. But there are also some that really need some improvement. I hope the program gets better and we can get to where everybody is happy with the program. I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to make this program work, but it's all in the operators hands. Until they can respect the average hunter, it won't work.


*but most of the ones I have researched and been on are crap!*
What do you mean they are crap? no animals/bad terrain/bad hunting dates...?
just wondering what you would consider as crap


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> but most of the ones I have researched and been on are crap!
> What do you mean they are crap? no animals/bad terrain/bad hunting dates...?
> just wondering what you would consider as crap


I understood him to meen the way the operators treated the ones with the public tag.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Being treated like crap = not being able to hunt areas that paying guys hunt, a madatory guide, guides that refuse to take a picture of your kill, making you tip a certain amount wether you kill something or not, not allowing any guests, not allowing your 5 days to be consecutive, and not letting you shoot a small buck the last day after you haven't seen anything the whole hunt.
That's what Crap means, and yes I have seen everything mentioned + more.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

HJB said:


> Being treated like crap = not being able to hunt areas that paying guys hunt, a madatory guide, guides that refuse to take a picture of your kill, making you tip a certain amount wether you kill something or not, not allowing any guests, not allowing your 5 days to be consecutive, and not letting you shoot a small buck the last day after you haven't seen anything the whole hunt.
> That's what Crap means, and yes I have seen everything mentioned + more.


I could see how that would be frustrating, but you can always call before hand and find out how the hunt will work and they will usually tell you all the details and that would help you make your decision. I for one have never put in for one and I may never put in for one. Also look at it from the other side, if you had enough property to have a CWMU why wouldn't you? Also they probably get tired of everyone thinking they should have unrestricted access to their property. It is really a win win for most everyone, especially the landowner.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

jahan said:


> I could see how that would be frustrating, but you can always call before hand and find out how the hunt will work and they will *USUALLY* tell you all the details and that would help you make your decision.


That's the problem! You guys think that the only ones that have problems are the ones that don't call and find out first. I'm here to tell you that it's BS! They will tell you all kinds of crap and when you actaully draw the tag, plans change.
Other times I have called and asked info about a CWMU and when I told them I was planning on drawing the public tag, he told me good luck and hung up on me. This is the "Crap" I'm talking about. There are plenty of guys that are guilty of not doing the homework before applying, but there are also tons of people that DO the homework and are screwed by the operators.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

So it seems there are very polerized views on the CWMU hunts. I did some research and read the posts. The system was set up to benifit Land owners with "wild livestock" living on there lands. With the understanding that a small percentage of "average hunters" were also allowed to hunt theses private lands. So the problems appear to stem from mangement or mismanagement depending on your perspective.

One thing that I could not find was a imparshal list of reviews for all CWMU's from any standpoint. I think a website soley dedicated to the reviews on all the CWMU's from "pay to play hunters" as well as regular draw tag hunters. Would be invaluble to the avreage joe looking to put in for a CWMU hunt, The DWR, Big spenders looking for big racks, and the owners themselfs. IF there were a way to compare side by side the advatages/disadvantages and from the horses mouth reviews. It would make it eaiser for me to pick A CWMU to hunt. And im guessing make regulation and violation of said regulations eiaser to address. I wonder if the DWR would be willing to support such an effort?


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

pkred said:


> So it seems there are very polerized views on the CWMU hunts. I did some research and read the posts. The system was set up to benifit Land owners with "wild livestock" living on there lands. With the understanding that a small percentage of "average hunters" were also allowed to hunt theses private lands. So the problems appear to stem from mangement or mismanagement depending on your perspective.
> 
> One thing that I could not find was a imparshal list of reviews for all CWMU's from any standpoint. I think a website soley dedicated to the reviews on all the CWMU's from "pay to play hunters" as well as regular draw tag hunters. Would be invaluble to the avreage joe looking to put in for a CWMU hunt, The DWR, Big spenders looking for big racks, and the owners themselfs. IF there were a way to compare side by side the advatages/disadvantages and from the horses mouth reviews. It would make it eaiser for me to pick A CWMU to hunt. And im guessing make regulation and violation of said regulations eiaser to address. I wonder if the DWR would be willing to support such an effort?


People who have had what they consider a bad experience tend to be more vocal than those that have a good one. If you thought is was great why invite more competion?

If everyone that hunted was required to report on their experience you would likely get a mixed result as well. My expection of the experience may be different than some one else.

My experice with CWMU's consist of one particular CWMU. I hunted it several times for cow elk. No problems and was happy with the hunts. And after hunting the CWMU I would never put in for Any Bull tag for it using my points over a LE unit. For me there is no substitue for being able to hunt tag like that on my terms not the Operators.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

Sure. I think your right about using the CWMU for a cow tag, but LE does seem like the way to go for a draw bull hunt. On a side note i dont think you should be "required" to do anything except pay taxes and die. And the paying taxes is up for disscussion.  

I still think that a feed back site would be a good thing for everyone envolved. I know if I buy something off the net i'll read the reviews.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

saw some good points in the last couple of posts and concur that if your looking for a extra speicial once in a lifetime bull a cwmu probably would not be your best choice due to in large the restrictions that are implimented into each cwmu. saying that if a person is like
myself just going to burn his points so he can get into another species there are some very good options in the cwmu program just dont go into one thinking about the 350 class bulls as a scrub bull you would probably be very dissapointed even the deseret cwmu bulls AVERAGE around the 330 to 340 class know that s a pretty **** good bull but if your looking for the very top end you would be wise to stick with know L E units, as for as tracking the cwmu s there is a page on the fish and game site under big games just below the harvest and draw listings that will give you some good information to help in making your choice the one thing i would suggest is research research research talk to the owners and others who have hunted on them also check with the cwmu program mangagers to see what if any complaints have been filed on these units. go into it with your eyes open and realistic goals and you should have a good experiance but like i mentioned before if your looking for the really big bucks and bulls limited entry is the best way to go


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

C. Come W. With M. Money U. Units :wink:


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I hesitate to post this story because it didn't happen to me, but rather to my neighbor who told me about it. He hunted a CWMU down South one year. He went out the first day with a guide and the owner of the CWMU and didn't see squat worth shooting. The owner went home and the guide informed him that they'd be hunting a different area the next day, but not to tell the owner because he'd been instructed only to take paying customers to the big buck area. My neighbor killed a superb 5x5 and had to keep it all hush hush from the owner of the CWMU. The guide said he just didn't feel right about the owner instructing him to shaft the guys who'd drawn a tag instead of purchasing it for big dollars. This story is the reason I saved my points for years instead of cashing in on a CWMU tag.


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## Farsider322 (Sep 30, 2008)

horsesma said:


> C. Come W. With M. Money U. Units :wink:


I thought it was "C. Come W. with M. Money U. U Idiots"


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

HJB said:


> Basically the CWMU program is a way for Greedy rich land owners to sell hunting permits for 100 times more than they are worth, and screw over the public hunters that wait 5-10 years to draw a great tag.


Then:


HJB said:


> Never compare a CWMU to a LE! They are nothing alike!


Didn't you just compare the two in your previous post?


HJB said:


> I have had this argument way too many times, and yes I have complained way too much and nothing has changed. So I'm done with this thing. You win :roll:


 And then make 4 more posts after you are saying you are done...who won? 


bwhntr said:


> Are you serious? HJB, you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about? Some people will never be happy unless they are complaining and I am sure your fit in that category. The facts mean nothing to you so there is not much point in having this discussion. However, 90+% of the state is NOT a CWMU. Enjoy!


Good points! Seems kind of greedy to me that a fellar can think that he is entitled to hunt someone's private land; on what conditions do you let perfect strangers use your home?
Seriously, every complaint I have heard only has to with things that the new policy has prohibited; I guess some people would complain about getting hung with a nice new rope...???


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Anyone have a snorkel? 

Don't fret boys, once Obama has his way with wealth re-distribution then we won't have CWMUs, but everyone will have their own 1/2 acre cabin lot in the hills. 

On a more serious note--- There is already a satisfaction index on the UDWR's website, for individual CWMUs.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Huge29 said:


> Seems kind of greedy to me that a fellar can think that he is entitled to hunt someone's private land; *on what conditions do you let perfect strangers use your home?*Seriously, every complaint I have heard only has to with things that the new policy has prohibited; I guess some people would complain about getting hung with a nice new rope...???


-On the conditions that the DWR offers you when you decide to sign up for a PUBLIC program. 
The land owners CHOSE this route, they we not forced to do this. Many private land owners could care less about CWMUs and they enjoy the land with friends and family. The people that sign up for the CWMU program understand (Or should understand), that they are signing up for a program that allows the public on the land. If they don't like it they don't have to sign up.
- I can't believe how many people are feeling sorry for these "Poor" land owners. You act like they are just poor little guys trying to make a living on 15,000 arces, a lodge, a hummer, and a bunch of suckers that will pay $10,000 dollars to hunt a big stinky elk.
Wake up people! I can drive to 30 different CWMUs within an hour of my house. To get to some good public land, I have to drive 3 hours or hike 5 hours. And even then all I can do is prance around the pumpkin patch and dodge bullets. Most of these CWMUs were public land before and then they all the sudden TRANSFORMED into private land. It sucks!!! Everytime I go up to Causey I have to look at that stupid "Skull Crack" land and think about how many people used to be able to hunt those awesome canyons, and now 10 people get to hunt 25,000 acres per year, while the public guys hunt 100 acres and there's 50 people hunting with you. :roll: 
It's getting ridiclulous, ask your grandpas.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

We do agree on this part! 


HJB said:


> :roll:


You greatly exaggerate how much public land is used in this program. I do not remember making any out to be a victim; I have never hunted one, no plans to and do not know of one anywhere near the area I hunt. It is simply a matter of property rights for me, to think that anyone is entitled to enter someone else's land is ridiculous. However, the idea that public land is placed into these CWMU's. I do have a problem with that, but please provide some data as to how much this happens and the quantity of acres used in this manner. I am a little surprised that you get so riled up over this; you have complained about every single aspect of the program and continue to use the program, have you not heard the "fool me once" adage? Unless your "spot" that you have always hunted that was public land was placed into the CWMU, my opinion is that you are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Huge29 said:


> *Unless your "spot" that you have always hunted that was public land was placed into the CWMU*, my opinion is that you are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill.


Not one of my "Spots" but several of my "Spots". As well as as about 20,000 acres that you now know as the "Skull Crack" CWMU, and also about 200 acres that is now included into the "Woodruff Creek" CWMU. On top of that, the National Forest I used to hunt has now turned into the "Bear Spring" CWMU. And some property that my family owned that also accessed National Forest is now the "Jacobs Creek" CWMU.
It sucks when the places that your family has hunted for generations, suddenly is taken away. Excuse me if I'm whining, but I'm still upset about it, and I'll probably never get over it.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Scull Crack CMWU consists of all private land. Jacob's Creek is also all private land. Woodruff Creek and Bear Spring both consist of a little over 1200 acres of public land which is about 10% of the CMWU. 

If its private land, they have every right in the world to close the doors regardless of how long your family has hunted the land. It stinks, but I can understand it. I do have problem with the public land locked up in the other CMWU units. File a complaint if the land is huntable with public access. If it is not, then I think you're out of luck.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Yes, it sucks and there's probably nothing that I can do about it. But what sucks worse is thinking about what land my son will have to hunt. If you ask your great grandpa how much land was available to hunt when he hunted, and then ask you grandpa and then ask your dad, and then evaluate your situation. It certainly doesn't look good for the future. You already have to be a rocket scientist to find public land that doesn't get a lot of pressure. Not looking good for my 18 month old son, and he still has to wait a long time before he can hunt.
I'm reffering to Northern Utah, so other areas may not apply. Public land in Northern Utah is slowing vanishing.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

toasty said:


> Scull Crack CMWU consists of all private land. Jacob's Creek is also all private land.


Yes, they do NOW. There was a time when all that was public land and everybody could hunt it. Ever heard of Mr. Walt Prothero??? He is a Northern Utah hunting legend and has tons of books about hunting. He almost exclusivley hunted what is now the Skull Crack CWMU. Sad to see such a gem, turn into a private hunting ranch for high rollers.


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## FC2Tuber (Oct 26, 2007)

This may be a stupid question, so please forgive me if it is, but isn't wildlife property of the state and it's people? If so, then the state is basically giving away tags to these landowners so that they can sell a state resource for profit, in return for allowing a few public hunters to hunt the land. If I am right about this, then I call BS on the 90%/10% ratio.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> This may be a stupid question, so please forgive me if it is, but isn't wildlife property of the state and it's people? If so, then the state is basically *giving away tags to these landowners so that they can sell a state resource for profit,* in return for allowing a few public hunters to hunt the land. If I am right about this, then I call BS on the 90%/10% ratio.


Several reasons:
A few members of the public can hunt land that before a CWMU no one could hunt.
To earn some money to cover loss of feed to domestic animals eaten by wildlife.
To earn some money caused by damage to property by wildlife.

How valid may be debatable but these are some of the reasons. But the first word is "cooperative". :| :mrgreen:


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

bowgy said:


> [But the first word is "cooperative". :| :mrgreen:


They own the land, we own the wildlife.The word Cooperative should mean more like 50/50 or at least 70/30, not 90/10.

I wish I had a helicopter so I could "Air Lift" all my animals back to public land. :lol:


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## neverdraws (Nov 24, 2008)

We used to hunt land adjacent to what is now Skull Crack. I didn't start hunting until the mid 80's but my dad was hunting the land from the late 60's. As long as my dad can remember, Skull Crack land has always been private. I know Mr. Protero hunted that area, my dad recalls seeing similar bucks claimed to be shot by him, but he must have had access to the land. Basin Land and Livestock was the lower portion of the property, Causey Estates was the upper. Hunting rights encompased the whole property. Those who owned cabins on the property were given permits. I am not sure, but think other were sold. It was about over 10 years ago that the hunting rights agreement expired. The lower portion, Basin land, was sold and they are now the CWMU operators. The hunting rights to the whole property was sold to them as well. That caused a huge stir with the cabin owners on the property, but there was nothing that could be done about it. Many people owned cabins just for the hunting rights. 

I guess where I'm going is that this land has been private for at least 50 years. I would love to be able to hunt it too, but it will never become available unless you draw the tag or pay to play. I wouldn't waste my points on it.


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