# Poachers



## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

My family has a ranch with lots of deer on it close o heber city hat is surrounded by he cwmu three c. They have lots of alfalfa and water with oak brush it holds lots o deer. 

Well, every year we have people on the property poaching deer on our land. Even the locals tell us poachers come in during the week when hey know we won't be around. what can we o to keep them out? Some big ones have been getting poached.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Hire me to watch your property.


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## woody622 (Jan 18, 2012)

You gotta do something for sure.. hire security, put trail cams up .. ect


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Report to Sheriff and DWR and see that they recommend. That is a tough one! Do you not live close by? Is there a local that you could allow to hunt there in return for keeping an eye on the place? That gives the person a vested interest in keeping them out. Only do this with someone you trust or you may be giving the fox they key to the hen house.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

We live in Provo. We have talked to the dwr but nothing happens. 

A judge in heber actually threw a case ou from a poacher last year because he knew the guy. It's pretty crooked up there. We have had someone look over it but they just let there friends on a it's almost worse


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That is what I mean by the fox....I wonder if the CWMU might help if you let them know that people are getting on to their property too by coming through your's?? Just the presence may deter them.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

I have thought of that. I'm pretty sure he three c guides are coming on our property as well. This is a hard one. We only rifle hut so a lot of the bigger deer are already poached every year Blythe time my hunt rolls around.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That is tough unless you have someone actively hunting it. I did that for a guy a few years ago after he had not posted it in years, had guys cutting down fences and gates. Almost came to blows with drunk guys a few times. After they were cited three years in a row and we put in a lot of time into posting and painting and patrolling the owner decided he would finally hunt it with his buddies...frustrating! You tried the Sheriff too? No one close by to monitor? You need one of these old ornery SOB's from the coffee shop who has nothing to do and all day to do it. He could just sit out there drinking his coffee hoping to bust someone.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

If you are the ranch Im thinkin of, do remember that the 3C CWMU surrounds you. Most of the big bucks that cross the CC road get pushed backed to get harvested on the 3C unit. I know the hayfields get hunted and spotlighted and hunted by the local high schoolers daily. But with that said why isnt any of the Ranch POSTED or PAINTED? If this is not the ranch Im thinkin of disregard my comments. And also its not as crooked as you reply up here.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

Yes that is the ranch...I go around and paint the fence every year...(the past 3 yrs) 
I am sorry if I offended you about it being crooked I was just using the words from what the dwr officer told me....


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Place a bunch of random bear traps where you know they are, where you think someone might walk...they'll learn real fast!


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## KennyC (Apr 28, 2010)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> Place a bunch of random bear traps where you know they are, where you think someone might walk...they'll learn real fast!


+1

Are you in the Timber Oaks area? I have a good friend that lives up there and he tells me the same thing. He used to have them in his back yard in the early morning but has since put up trail cams to find out who is killing the Big Game. Its not just deer, Last year the had a Moose that was taken as well. I will come sit up there and watch your place. Small fee of course.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Find out where they are parking their vehicles. Leave a little sugar in their gas tanks, works wonders!


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

good Idea...I know where they park....


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

ram2h2o said:


> Find out where they are parking their vehicles. Leave a little sugar in their gas tanks, works wonders!


They did that on myth busters, didn't work as well as you think. Mostly just burned up.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you start vandalizing their property and they catch you you'll be in trouble also even if it is on your property. 

You are going to have to take a proactive part in catching and having them punished. You are going to have to get pictures or videos of them on your property for trespassing or when they bring the game animal out for a poaching conviction. I don't believe that the judge threw out a case because he knew the offenders, that one you are going to have to prove to me. 

So in the long run you are going to have to take time off of work or your hunts if you hunt there and get the proof that will stand up in court if you want to do something about it.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

Do more than just paint it, post nice bright signs that say no hunting or tresspassing and other sign that say report hunters to local law enforcemtn so others driving by will call. put sign close enough so you can see one sign from anther so there are no excusses. As long as they feel they can get away with it they will keep doing it. Once you catch some and they get what they should in court word will get out and most people will stay away. If you were willing to let be put some bee hives up there I would swing up and check things out every few weeks and help keep an eye on it.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

How about an informative sign something to the form of:
NO TRESSPASSING 
TRESSPASSERS WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT!
DUE TO RECENT VIOLATIONS OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITY THIS PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY UNDER SURVELENCE! (correct spelling would help too) 

ATTORNEY: BYRON PEAY (or Don Bateman)


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Or if you have a good lawyer:
WARNING! THIS PROPERTY IS PROTECTED BY NON LETHAL LOADS OF 12 GAUGE ROUNDS LOADED WITH ROCKSALT IN BOTH THE PRESENCE AND THE ABSENCE OF THE OWNER. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! (p.s. it stings)


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

As an FYI it is a felony for someone with a CWMU permit to kill an animal outside of the boundry of the CWMU just like it would be for you to kill one on the CWMU without a permit.

I would think the DWR would followup with any crediable information that could lead to a felony conviction. And anyone supplying the information may be able to be rewarded with a tag.


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## gmanhunter (Dec 27, 2007)

If it is a fenced in area, I have a better idea. Put some good strong voltage on that fence and an exta strand at the top. Post a sign saying danger, beware underground high voltage present. Then see how many of the suckers take the bait and access your land. :rotfl:


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Elkaddict said:


> Yes that is the ranch...I go around and paint the fence every year...(the past 3 yrs)
> I am sorry if I offended you about it being crooked I was just using the words from what the dwr officer told me....


I wouldn't ever put too much faith in what a fish cop tells you. They are liars and will bend the story any way they see fit. They don't know the truth most of the time. They just go with what sounds best.

Id try to get pics of the offenders. A judge is held to a certain standard. If you have evidence that you can use that proves without a doubt someone is breaking the law, they have to punish the crime. It might not be the result you are looking for, but at the very least they will end up paying a fine.


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## blazingsaddle (Mar 11, 2008)

I know and have guided for the guy that runs part of the three C ranch. I can assure you that none of the guides are coming onto your property. 
I agree with you that deer are being poached off the private land around the ranch. I can also say that the operators of Three C care. Any one involved with the ranch keeps good tabs on whats happening around the place.
Most of the deer that are poached are possible bucks to be had by paying clients.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

We actually caught a guy who shot a deer our property last year with the dwr. He was dragging it out on our property. The dwr took the deer and took him away. The case got thrown out which the dwr said was bs.

I tried to get a tag for catching the poacher ad they told me that if it would have been on the three c they would issue me a tag but, since it was no and on private property they won't....bunch of bs


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> Elkaddict said:
> 
> 
> > Yes that is the ranch...I go around and paint the fence every year...(the past 3 yrs)
> ...


This sounds like its coming from someone who got caught doing something they shouldn't. 9/10 cops are very honest and trustworthy. But if Shaun Larsen says so, it must be.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Elkaddict said:


> I tried to get a tag for catching the poacher ad they told me that if it would have been on the three c they would issue me a tag but, since it was no and on private property they won't....bunch of bs


I believe that in order to get a tag for turning in a poacher the poacher needs to be on some kind of a LE unit and not just a piece of private.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

I didnt know trespassing on a cwmu was a felony? That alone should be enough to keep someone out. I always thought of felons as rapist, killers, drug dealers, not trespassers


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I, personally, do not consider this poaching. This is trespassing, it is illegal and the violators should pay serious consequences, but not poaching IMHO. This is very different than the poachers who should loads of animals out of season IMHO. This thread should be titled trespassers. I turned in a guy last year for only taking out the head on his LE elk, but I don't consider that poaching either, he had the tag and took the animal legally in season. I think the term poacher should be reserved for those of the much more serious violators personally.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

martymcfly73 said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > Elkaddict said:
> ...


i dunno wtf your problem is with me? but obviously you dont like me. great. i dont like you. but you dont have to personally attack me on every post.

sounds like you havent had much experience with the law. most law enforcement people are very one sided, liars and crooked. depend on one to do the right thing one time and see what happens...

and youre right. i made a mistake once. you ever make a mistake? well it happened to me.



COOPERD said:


> I always thought of felons as rapist, killers, drug dealers, not trespassers


it'd surprise you what is actually considered as a felony these days



Huge29 said:


> I, personally, do not consider this poaching. This is trespassing, it is illegal and the violators should pay serious consequences, but not poaching IMHO. This is very different than the poachers who should loads of animals out of season IMHO. This thread should be titled trespassers. I turned in a guy last year for only taking out the head on his LE elk, but I don't consider that poaching either, he had the tag and took the animal legally in season. I think the term poacher should be reserved for those of the much more serious violators personally.


i agree. to me a poacher is someone who illegally takes an animal out of season or without a tag in their posession. not someone who kills an animal during the season, with a tag, but does something illegal to harvest the animal while hunting.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Critter said:


> Elkaddict said:
> 
> 
> > I tried to get a tag for catching the poacher ad they told me that if it would have been on the three c they would issue me a tag but, since it was no and on private property they won't....bunch of bs
> ...


they also need to be successfully convicted. which is a lot more complicated and harder than one might think


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> i dunno wtf your problem is with me? but obviously you dont like me. great. i dont like you. but you dont have to personally attack me on every post.
> 
> sounds like you havent had much experience with the law. most law enforcement people are very one sided, liars and crooked. depend on one to do the right thing one time and see what happens...


As this thread has already been hijacked--Speaking of attacks, I think your words would be offensive to many people and taken as an attack. I have dealt with law enforcement in several facets, but never as a criminal and I must say that they have been very professional. I don't appreciate you running their names in the dirt. Nothing personal to you, but I think that the great majority of criminals hate cops as most criminals justify their illegal behavior and calling cops liars somehow justifies their criminal activity. I think it makes the criminals look ridiculous personally, as if they were framed, yet you also admitted to making a mistake, why cant you leave it at that? It sounds like your poor choice was the issue, not the cops lying. Just my $0.02.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> they also need to be successfully convicted. which is a lot more complicated and harder than one might think


Not to pile on, but you do see at least a little bit of irony in your post above when comparing your previous comments about law enforcement?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Poaching:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poaching


> poach·ing? ?/?po?t???/ Show Spelled[poh-ching] Show IPA
> noun
> 1. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
> 2. any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poaching


> poach 2 (pch)
> v. poached, poach·ing, poach·es
> v.intr.
> 1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game.
> ...


/shrug

-DallanC


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> martymcfly73 said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="shaun larsen":b9nj7snk]
> ...


i dunno wtf your problem is with me? but obviously you dont like me. great. i dont like you. but you dont have to personally attack me on every post.

sounds like you havent had much experience with the law. most law enforcement people are very one sided, liars and crooked. depend on one to do the right thing one time and see what happens...

and youre right. i made a mistake once. you ever make a mistake? well it happened to me.



COOPERD said:


> I always thought of felons as rapist, killers, drug dealers, not trespassers


it'd surprise you what is actually considered as a felony these days



Huge29 said:


> I, personally, do not consider this poaching. This is trespassing, it is illegal and the violators should pay serious consequences, but not poaching IMHO. This is very different than the poachers who should loads of animals out of season IMHO. This thread should be titled trespassers. I turned in a guy last year for only taking out the head on his LE elk, but I don't consider that poaching either, he had the tag and took the animal legally in season. I think the term poacher should be reserved for those of the much more serious violators personally.


i agree. to me a poacher is someone who illegally takes an animal out of season or without a tag in their posession. not someone who kills an animal during the season, with a tag, but does something illegal to harvest the animal while hunting.[/quote:b9nj7snk]

I have a lot of experience with law enforcement. I work these fine men and women on a daily basis. I have mourned the loss of a number of close friends killed and injured in the line of duty. These people protect know it all braggarts like yourself and you drag them through the mud calling them liars. Maybe you should look in the mirror. It wouldn't surprise me what is a felony these days. I read the code book. Pretty simple. I hope if you're a felon you aren't hunting. That would be asking for big trouble. So in short all cops aren't perfect but they are the minority. You seem to call them out on a lot of posts.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Wow, thanks Dallan! I did not say, nor Shaun, what the dictionary definition is. Calling all of them poachers would be like calling all criminals felons, yet there are a whole lot of offenses that are only misdemeanors, criminals nonetheless, but it is too broad of a stroke IMHO.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> I wouldn't ever put too much faith in what a fish cop tells you. They are liars and will bend the story any way they see fit. They don't know the truth most of the time. They just go with what sounds best.
> 
> Id try to get pics of the offenders. A judge is held to a certain standard. If you have evidence that you can use that proves without a doubt someone is breaking the law, they have to punish the crime. It might not be the result you are looking for, but at the very least they will end up paying a fine.


This is a DB statement, and completely unfair. There are a few bad apples in every profession, but to lump every cop in your short minded statement is ridiculas. I dare say most are very hard working, good people just trying to earn a living and maybe make a difference in the world we live in.

Now...never talk of this again. If anyone ever brings my above statment up in conversation, I will deny it.


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## highcountryfever (Aug 24, 2009)

The guidebook and the utah code 23-20-14 say that this type of offense is a class B misdemeanor, the code says the following about the violation of taking protected game on private land without permission:



> (3) (a) A person convicted of violating Subsection (2)(a) may have the person's license, tag, certificate of registration, or permit, relating to the activity engaged in at the time of the violation, revoked by a hearing officer.
> (b) A hearing officer may construe any subsequent conviction which occurs within a five-year period as a flagrant violation and may prohibit the person from obtaining a new license, tag, certificate of registration, or permit for a period of up to five years.


http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE23/htm/23_20_001400.htm

I would hope that the person caught by the property owner at least gets this punishment.


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## Mrad (Mar 25, 2011)

Elkaddict, 

I sent you a pm.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I hope you are right high country, but I helped bust dome guys three consecutive years for trespassing, mo orange and hunting after filling tag who were still hinting the following year. Messed up if you ask me.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I believe Killing a protected animal without the proper permit falls under Wanton destruction of Wildlife and is a 3rd degree felony Section 23-20-4.
A person with a CWMU permit does not have a permit to take the animal outside the borders of the CWMU.

It is completely seperate from the penalty for Tresspassing.

But I'm no lawyer. Do what you want and take your chances.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Its the value of the animal or animals killed that determines the felony in most cases


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> Elkaddict said:
> 
> 
> > Yes that is the ranch...I go around and paint the fence every year...(the past 3 yrs)
> ...


Video link removed by moderator.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

blackdog said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > Elkaddict said:
> ...


LMAO!!!! ^^^^this is awesome!


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

Elkaddict said:


> A judge in heber actually threw a case ou from a poacher last year because he knew the guy. It's pretty crooked up there.


Can you prove that?


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Don't tell them you have poachers on your land... They don't have time for that.

Tell them you have just shot some people who were trespassing on your land... They will have every member of every local agency up there within 15 minutes.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

I wild idea, but what if you were to arrange a contract with a guide? For a price, give him the rights to bring people on the property to hunt. I think there is a good chance that he will do his best to keep poachers away, if for no other reason than to protect his own economic interests.

I have an idea of someone who might possibly be interested. Right now he guides in a different part of the state, but your ranch is closer to his home, so maybe he could be interested in working some properties a little closer to his home.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

duckhunter1096 said:


> Don't tell them you have poachers on your land... They don't have time for that.
> 
> Tell them you have just shot some people who were trespassing on your land... They will have every member of every local agency up there within 15 minutes.


And you get arrested for filing a false police report.


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