# A chance to vote out a public land transfer advocate



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38855774&ni...ne-albarran-file-to-run-in-utahs-2nd-district

This is where stopping the transfer of public lands starts, evening out the state and weeding those out in favor of it. Chris Stewart is not good for sportsmen or access, if you live in his district you have the choice to vote and get rid of him.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

What will we be trading for when we get rid of him?-------SS


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

This is the other candidates website:
https://www.charlenealbarran.com


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Yup, I already read it before your post. I was just wondering if you had done any research before making your suggestion to vote someone out based on your pet issue. Too many red flags for me. An unknown making either total vague statements like" Protecting the environment" or mega stupid crap like raising the minimum wage to $12.00 per hour. 

Maybe we would be better off trying to lobby our case to a candidate that is better on the majority of the issues. Politicians will change their mind under pressure of constituency you know. 

Let me raise a warning from experience. Many Government officials who are champions of vast Government controlled holdings are not friends of sportsman. I've lived under the regimes of politicians like those who you are suggesting 1-I and I'm not in any hurry to vote myself into that mess again. 

As a sportsman and a member of several sportsman's organizations in California, we were treated far better by private land holders than we ever were by the BLM or fish and game. All we ended up with was a bunch of land that was over regulated to the point where it was pretty much unusable and a bloated staff of useless public employees. 

When the BLM shut down all the shooting areas, we were able to make a great place to shoot with the help of the NRA and a private land owner. While the Fish and Game partnered with 'conservation' groups to purchase thousands of acres as unhuntable wildlife refuge, Hunters flocked to private timber company property where they were, and are still welcomed. 

So, be careful not to oversimplify the problem and be extra careful that you aren't suggesting changes that might ultimately be even worse for sportsman and probably everyone else.------SS


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

SS, I understand your points and they are legitimate ones. In a republican dominated state where there is basically one political pressure driving only one set of agendas, I'm ready for some diversity among our politicians, but no I don't want to go clear to the left I agree. We've got to keep the land before we worry about managment. It's hard to put pressure on politicians in this state who never have a danger of being voted out and have made a career out of it.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

So instead of simply backing liberal candidates as a solution to lands grievances, why don't we work on identifying an appropriate lobbyist group that we can get behind, or form, in order to make our collective voices heard? Seems to me that lobbyists get much further in politics than those who concentrate on candidate, or even party politics. 

I will not ever join with you in widespread support of candidates with left wing agendas that are often contrary to my beliefs, but I would absolutely join you in supporting a lobby aimed at advancing the land interestes of sportsman across the political spectrum. 

I'd be willing to bet a pound of Varget and a brick of .22 shells that there are a few others that share my sentiments on the matter as well.------SS


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Agreed SS, but I'm ready for Stewart, Bishop, Ivory, Chaffetz, and Lee to go away.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

SS, CA and liberals do not have a monopoly on stupid, look no further than Utah for the counter point. Utah politicians have not done anything significantly positive for wildlife or Utah hunters or fishermen for well over 20 years. In fact they have quite the opposite.

I do get tired of the straw man arguments when it comes to wildlife and hunting issues, especially the politics of it all. I appreciate the whole devil we know argument, as it holds allot of weight, sometimes to the point that it breaks under that weight. That is where we are in this state especially. That is why I have been an ardent independent for years. It is not about Republicans verses Democrats or conservative verses liberal. Generally speaking I don't fault any of those at a practical core level. I am well versed in the pros and cons of both, and know many good people on both sides of the isle.

But when it comes right down to the rubber hitting the road, and what is best for sportsmen, wildlife, hunting, fishing and the public lands that support the before mentioned, our current congressional representatives have completely failed us, completely! I worked on some issues that Matheson was involved with when he was a congressman. Not because he was a Democrat, and not because he was a liberal. I worked on those things that he did, because he was a hunter, and fisherman, and he was responsive to all of those surrounding issues. He got it, he was one of us, when it came to those things. I could have cared less if he was robot from another planet, if it was public lands, public trust, wildlife, fishing, hunting etc. he was the guy we could talk to.

Have you ever had a conversation with any of our other great sportsmen we have as congressmen? Swapped hunting and fishing stories with them, etc? Oh....what?.......none of them are sportsmen? Well they at least have a solid track record of support issues, groups and initiatives that are and have been positive for us then right? Oh.......another no on that count as well?

I don't care if we bring in aliens from another planet, if they are aligned with or can show that they are willing and able to move the ball forward on issues of conservation and wildlife, then I'm going to be giving them some very serious consideration. Because we have been heading in the wrong direction in this state for the last 20 years, and some want to double down on that. NO, #$$% NO!

Like I said this is neither condemnation nor endorsement of Rs or Ds, lefties or righties, but solely a statement about individuals in office, and those seeking office. We can go over and make plenty of arguments about lefties and righties on a political forum, on any issue imaginable, but strawman tangential arguments about the politics of quasi related wildlife, hunting and fishing issues on hunting forums is like being that guy with the Honda civic on a muscle car forum, it is not the same thing.

20+ years ago, as a hunter and conservationist there were some strong arguments to be made here. But in this day and age, it is not the same thing. The current devil is just that, with a long track record that reflects it. Stewart is not good for hunters and fishermen, and he is not good for public lands. _Sorry_ if wildlife and hunting are "pet issues" for some of us here on the....uuh......what ever kind of forum this is.....


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Springville Shooter said:


> I will not ever join with you in widespread support of candidates with left wing agendas that are often contrary to my beliefs, but I would absolutely join you in supporting a lobby aimed at advancing the land interestes of sportsman across the political spectrum.


Put up, or........

Show us the way, lead us out of Babylon. That is a complete cop out WRT the OP and the issues of Stewart. That is like saying you can't condemn a child molester, because he is also a Bishop. What about Stewart, hunting, public lands, fishing, conservation, etc. ??? What about the specific issue at hand, are you going to just keep voting for our destruction????? Or do you have an actual alternative??????


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Any argument for privatizing BLM and FS lands is ultimately an argument against the NAMWC, Western hunting and fishing as we know it, and have known it for 165 years. No matter how thinly veiled that argument is. 

That's what really irks me with the public lands sell off crowd, they can't even come out and say what it is, and that that is what they are for. They always have to fluff it up, put a bow and lipstick on it, tell us about its friend and neighbor, what it kinda is, what it kinda is not, and 20 other related but not really related things, because they can not with a straight face and pure heart, just come out and say they are for the sell off of our public lands. It is always a proxy argument.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Until I can find a right winger that is concerned about the rights of sportsmen and Mother Nature I will be voting left on a state and local level.

Conservative and Conservation don't seem to share the same root anymore.


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## fishsnoop (Apr 3, 2009)

Lobbyists get you no where fast, 'cept short on cash. Constituent faces matter more than any other effort. Paying one guy to go speak for many is not your answer. As many faces as you can put at one candidate matters, constituents matter. Make the effort to contact them and meet with them before you attempt to buy them.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Until I can find a right winger that is concerned about the rights of sportsmen and Mother Nature I will be voting left on a state and local level.
> 
> Conservative and Conservation don't seem to share the same root anymore.


I feel the same way, but I also add public education to the mix!


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks for this. I, for one, need to get off my duff and break out my wallet for candidates who actually care about the things I care about- keeping public land public with conservation minded management, cleaner air, smarter growth and respect for all. Albarrran seems to fit that bill with a proven record of success in life behind her. I just donated a few bucks to the campaign. Join me today https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/mainwebdonations?refcode=frommainsite


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Until I can find a right winger that is concerned about the rights of sportsmen and Mother Nature I will be voting left on a state and local level.
> 
> Conservative and Conservation don't seem to share the same root anymore.


Well conservative isn't conservative in Utah.

Just this last session Republican lawmakers in Utah tried to get rid of the death penalty legalize marijuana provide free release for all pretrial cases and prohibit police from booking misdemeanor arrests.

The list goes on but I'll spare you.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Incumbency is a problem regardless of the party. 

Just like underwear they accumulate stains and need to be switched out regularly.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

The conservative train of thought in Utah is:

-Feds bad, lawsuits good
-Spend millions on lawsuits instead of our childrens education
-Damaging water projects to our wildlife and GSL good, but roof top solar bad
-Clean air bad, corporate welfare good
-$53 million coal port good, feds still bad.

As far left as California is, we are the opposite. I want money funneling to our school children not coal ports, continuous lawsuits on the feds, and corporate welfare. I want our children to breath clean air and have amazing wild places to enjoy. Instead of kicking the can down the road and worrying so much about us today, maybe we should worry about our kids and grand-kids tomorrow. Clean air, clean water, open space, and diverting lawsuit money to school children is a step forward not a step back. Instead of leaving our kids with a developed, smog filled, dirty world I think it is our problem to give them a better future, not their problem once we pass it on to them. There are things our republican representatives do every year to undermine clean air, clean water, wildlife, our public lands, and our childrens future and education. Right wing agendas are just as damaging as left wing agendas, and instead of keeping the status quo, IMO it would be a much greater benefit to get someone in who will have a different train of thought.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

1-I yep, it does not mater if its the right or left antler, if there looks like there is something out of whack, there probably is. That is why symmetry get you the score that it does. There is always something unique that deserves some attention and admiration out side of that. But when it becomes the "new norm" you know you need to change something, because it is a sign that something is really wrong, and is usually rooted in sort of emasculation.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm all for shipping the coal to China for them to burn. 

Sure beats another coal plant in central Utah.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Iron Bear said:


> I'm all for shipping the coal to China for them to burn.
> 
> Sure beats another coal plant in central Utah.


Except that anything that gets burned or blown up in Asia comes right back to us. I just got done looking at radiation fallout from Fukushima, I was at ground zero in Oregon when the first wave of deposition hit after the Japanese cloud bursts. There is quite the cluster of birth defects and Autism that go with it as well.

Whether we burn that coal, or they burn it, we suffer the consequences.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Iron Bear said:


> Well conservative isn't conservative in Utah.
> 
> Just this last session Republican lawmakers in Utah tried to get rid of the death penalty legalize marijuana provide free release for all pretrial cases and prohibit police from booking misdemeanor arrests.
> 
> The list goes on but I'll spare you.


 Medicinal marijuana, not recreational:smokin: Not that I'm a R. fan.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Iron Bear said:


> Incumbency is a problem regardless of the party.
> 
> Just like underwear they accumulate stains and need to be switched out regularly.


 Iron Bear, not outdoor related, but one of your best posts on here.8)


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Except that anything that gets burned or blown up in Asia comes right back to us. I just got done looking at radiation fallout from Fukushima, I was at ground zero in Oregon when the first wave of deposition hit after the Japanese cloud bursts. There is quite the cluster of birth defects and Autism that go with it as well.
> 
> Whether we burn that coal, or they burn it, we suffer the consequences.


Not according to MY state legislator. In fact, he not only sent $50 million-something to CALIFORNIA, he also made it so there is less incentive to install solar in our sunny state. That way our public utility can keep bringing in the bucks on the back of carbon. Of course they'll be using the savings to research "clean coal technology". But my state legislator TOTALLY believes in free markets, unless doing so affects big business, or asks any pure pioneer-pedigree rural Utahan to make any change from doing things the way his grand-pappy did.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Trooper said:


> Not according to MY state legislator. In fact, he not only sent $50 million-something to CALIFORNIA, he also made it so there is less incentive to install solar in our sunny state. That way our public utility can keep bringing in the bucks on the back of carbon. Of course they'll be using the savings to research "clean coal technology". But my state legislator TOTALLY believes in free markets, unless doing so affects big business, or asks any pure pioneer-pedigree rural Utahan to make any change from doing things the way his grand-pappy did.


Don't forget what my rep did when he teamed up with an OR congressman to ensure that we will pay more for electricity. They can't stand that large diverse groups worked together with industry through cooperation to make progress on a number of fronts including conservation. Oh no, we can't have that, we should all have to pay more, while everyone suffers for it, so they can make some childish point.

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-klamath-dams-20151210-story.html

No one wants the dams, not even their owners. But now we the consumers of the power derived from these out of date dams get to upgrade them, instead of tearing them down like 90% of the people and industry want.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Springville Shooter said:


> Yup, I already read it before your post. I was just wondering if you had done any research before making your suggestion to vote someone out based on your pet issue. Too many red flags for me. An unknown making either total vague statements like" Protecting the environment" or mega stupid crap like raising the minimum wage to $12.00 per hour.
> 
> Maybe we would be better off trying to lobby our case to a candidate that is better on the majority of the issues. Politicians will change their mind under pressure of constituency you know.
> 
> ...


SS,

I understand where you're coming from. There is a lot more to politics than just the outdoors, as you mentioned. However, I think Utah and California are just two sides of the same coin.

Both have a political party that has little meaningful resistance, and that leads to questionable policies and spending directives that endanger the ability to continue the hunting and fishing way of life. The ability to utilize public land to hike, hunt, scout, fish, and camp is more meaningful to me than a great majority of other political issues.

In California, it is unlikely that I would feel the same way about voting D. Utah is on the opposite end of the spectrum but the situation is eerily similar with different political labels.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

+1^


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Okie Dokie Folks. I'm about to tick you off. But this thread is NOT an outdoor related thread. It is a political thread, which is against our rules. Not sure how it went for 3 pages. If you want to discuss politics, which is great, go to one of the news websites and jump in the fray in commenting on articles. There are plenty to choose from, and you'll have lively discussions. 

#1-I - I know you are upset about many things here. But every single thread you've started in the last couple weeks has been pushing that line into nothing but a political thread. Many of the issues are core to our outdoors for sure, and I've joined in the discussion of many. Please keep things related to that though. 

So with that, I'm locking this one down.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Okie Dokie Folks. I'm about to tick you off. But this thread is NOT an outdoor related thread. It is a political thread, which is against our rules. Not sure how it went for 3 pages................................
> 
> So with that, I'm locking this one down.


Thanks Gary.

The thread started out outdoor related, but turned political on page three.

Happy election year everyone, be sure to get out and vote.

.


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