# I was WARNED, now I'm just mad at myself!



## Bowdacious

I was warned by a friend to not use a certain (contreversial?) broadhead...and I was determined not to. I had actually replaced four of the broadheads and left two of the "restricted" broadheads on. So I had six arrows. They were all sitting in my case together (so I thought).

Yesterday, I decided to do a little hunting on the Wasatch. I grabbed my arrow case and took off. When I got to my spot I realized I had not put the arrows with the "non controversial" broadheads in the case like I thought I did. I made a split second decision to use the "controversial" heads. Low and behold, what happens? I run into an awesome buck. I watched him and his buddy make their way to where I was sitting patiently to intercept them. Finally they got within range and I made my play. The shot was 40 yards...no problem. Everything was calm and quiet. I drew on the buck, settled my pin behind the shoulder, and released. The arrow smacked the deer hard (the loud *THWACK* was proof of that) and he bucked up. He took off running and as he went made a loud cough/bark. I expected him to go down any minute. I watched were he had gone into the brush and made sure I remembered the spot.

After about ten minutes it had started to rain just a bit and so I went up to where the buck was standing and to my surprise saw NO blood and NO arrow. I was surprised that there was no blood at all. I started to follow the trail I had seen the deer go down and still there was NO blood and NO arrow. I finally got to where I saw the buck enter the bushes and started walking in. I went maye 50 yards and ran into a leaf that had one blood drop on it. I went a little further and noticed a branch that the buck had run past and it had a quarter sized blood drop on it.....that was the last blood I was able to find. Still never found the arrow. I kept walking and looking for the deer but never found him. I searched until dark. I haven't been up there today yet because I had class but will be up there as soon as I can to look for that buck.

I never should have used that "controversial" broadhead! I am so mad at myself and just can't get the episode out of my head. I totally blame myself. the shot was good...the broadhead SUCKED!


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## Nor-tah

Dang, bad news man. Keep looking for him. I found a deer last year that was gut shot (not by me) very little blood. Good luck!


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## Joey_B.

Dang that sucks! 
Holler if you need some help and I'll gladly give you a hand hunting for it. 
I PM'd you my number.


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## longbow

Dang UZ-A-BOW, I hate to hear about your luck. Wish I could help you out.
PM me about your broadhead, just curious.


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## Curley

What head? Warn others. Not the first "epic experience" that someone has lost due to a bad head.


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## lehi

Why not say the name of the Broadhead? No reason to hide it, If it didn't perform well then don't hide the name of it, let everyone know your experience with it.


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## Huge29

lehi said:


> Why not say the name of the Broadhead? No reason to hide it, If it didn't perform well then don't hide the name of it, let everyone know your experience with it.


+1! Although, I can assume which one it is.


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## ktowncamo

lehi said:


> Why not say the name of the Broadhead? No reason to hide it, If it didn't perform well then don't hide the name of it, let everyone know your experience with it.


+3

Unless you're under contract as a spancered athlete or something with said defective broadhead company. Heck, if that broadhead sucks, help a brother out by telling him what broadhead to steer clear of.


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## .45

UZ-A-BOW ........

Why not take the issue to the company owners? If it was a manufacturers problem, I'm sure they like to hear about it. Could it be possible that the company is new and still in the process of working out performance details? Any chance it was operator error? 

How about 'try' to work out a solution or at least contact the company about your unsatsifactory experience, and then if you feel the need, let us know the results?


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## Bowdacious

*The point of my post was mainly for me to let some steam and frustration out.* I didn't really want to get on here and tear down the.....................................*EPEK XC-3* (phewwww, I said it). After giving it some thought I figured I would share what broadhead (as if you didn't already know) so that nobody else would have to experience losing a critter. I totally had tons of faith in this broadhead and was a huge supporter to begin with. I was really disappointed with the stories I had heard about results and experiences that guys had had with the EPEK. In fact I would have never used the broadhead exept by some faulty and stupid lack of planning on my part. I'm a huge fan of mechanicals (because they fly like my fieldpoints) and think that this broadhead has huge potential but am disappointed that it is out on the market with only maybe a 50% success rate. It will take an act of GOD to get me to buy them again. I guess we will see what the future holds. I by no means want to destroy the name of EPEK or his partners. I've met most of them and have come to the conclusion that they are decent guys.

I have taken this issue to the company owners. I've sent them copies of my last post and this one. This experience was NOT user error. I had only shot one of the broadheads as a practice and I made sure that it was back in the right spot before I put the arrow away. I also made sure that the broadheads opened the way they should have before I placed the arrows in my quiver. Like I said, the shot was good! 40 yards right behind the leg. I am expecially disappointed in the LACK of ANY blood at all where the deer was standing when shot. The blood trail also left a lot to be desired. The bad part about it is that YES bad experiences will make the company/broadhead better if they learn from them but the company can't replace the uncovered and/or injured animals caused by said broadhead.

I hope that Epek and his crew can correct the problems and come out with a better broadhead in the future. Just wish that it didn't have to cost me a deer.

NOW, YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED...TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT.


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## Bowdacious

P.S. Went back up there last night from 3:00 til dark....still haven't found the deer.


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## fixed blade XC-3

What other bad experiences have you heard of? This is the first I've heard anything negative about them. They worked perfectly on my elk, and It wasn't that great of a shot.


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## Bowdacious

Other experiences aren't mine to tell. One experience was on an elk!


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## HOGAN

Thanks for the update. Information is power and see no reason to with hold it. I do see the reason here though, but I was sure most were happy with the product. Maybe others are with holding but have not heard very many other complaints. Only other complaints have been by 1st time posters, wich I will ignore but now a forum friend has had an issue, well I will take it into consideration.


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## MEEN

UZ-A-BOW! DUDE! I am sorry to hear. Can't say I didn't warn ya . I wish I wasn't so busy this week I would come help you look. If you go up after Tuesday let me know. I will try and help.

An FYI for anyone else, I sent this p.m. to UZ-A-Bow. Notice the date. My experience was nearly identical.

Re: EPEK experiences!
Sent at: Aug 24, '09, 12:02 
From: MEEN 
To: UZ-A-BOW

Subject: EPEK experiences!

*UZ-A-BOW* wrote:


> Hey, I'm interested to hear what ya'll have experienced with the EPEK broadheads. The animals may have died but how have they held up? Did you have any blades bake? Did they fully deploy as expected? I would like to see pictures if you have any and hear any stories about how the EPEK has performed.


*Meen *wrote: 


> *This was a PM I sent someone that asked me about the Epek heads. I thought you would find it an interesting read.*
> 
> It was in practice mode when I was field testing. They fly exactly like my field points which was the main reason I bought them. They had great penetration because of the head. Most manufactures have a smaller diameter head than your arrow shaft. I don't like this because friction is able to occur down the length of your shaft resulting in energy lost. The larger cutting head creates a path for the arrow to travel through. The expanded blades will have a negligible effect on penetration because they are thin so I would still expect great penetration whether in practice mode or not.
> 
> If you look at my post on Aug 12th, I liked the accuracy but I said the following. "I would like to see the Epek team tighten up the side to side play in the blades when deployed, have smaller cut outs in the outside shroud where the blade travels, and get rid of the need for the O ring."
> 
> I still fully agree with this and have found more to add to the list.. I waited as long as I could to buy my heads because modifications continued to be made. I finally purchased them on the 12th, 3 days before the opening of the hunt.
> 
> Since hunting with them I have found the following:
> 
> *Epek broadhead #1*: I shot at a nice 4x4 on the evening of the 16th. The arrow grazed a small dead tree branch that I did not see and I missed the deer. After retrieving my arrow (standing up on it's knock against a bush) I found that the head did not deploy and the outside shroud was bent. Looks like they need a little more work on their solid mechanics.
> 
> *Epek broadhead #2*: I shot at a very very nice 4x4 that was quartering away from me at 50 yards on the morning of the 18th. I aimed a little higher than I should have because of the tree branch incident on the first 4x4. As a result I hit the deer right where I aimed, a little high. The arrow entered the deer approximately 4 inches higher than you normally would want. I found blood within 20 yards of the shot and gave the deer 3 hours to die. Upon returning to the blood trail I found only a few small drops of blood every 15 feet. Two of us spent 6 hours following a blood trail (I mean blood drop) for 150 yards on our hands and knees before we lost the trail. We never did retrieve the deer. Now I can't prove that the head did not open and that is the reason this is in a PM and not posted on a public forum, but one can only assume. If I hit a deer quartering away right behind the front leg and 4 inches high with an expanded broadhead I would expect to see more than a drop every 15 feet. If it was a perfect shot, I believe the head would have done it's job whether it opened or not but so would a field tip. I shoot a large diameter broadhead to make up for the slightly less than perfect shots.
> 
> After that experience I put my Epek broadheads away and put my Spitfire heads on. I don't like the Spitfire heads but I have never lost a deer with one. On the evening of the 19th I shot a 3x2 quartering away at 60 yards. The deer died 30 yards away in plain sight. Granted it was a slightly better shot but I still wonder if the epek head didn't expand and resulted in losing a nice trophy.
> 
> The thing that worries me is that none of the Epek crew are engineers. I hope they hired an engineering consultant and continue to use one but I don't know. So that could result in trial and error designing. (i.e. the rubber O-ring) The blades were deploying before hitting the target so they added the O-ring as a bandaid.
> 
> Conclusion: The Epek head easily has the potential to be the best broadhead on the market, but until they fix the following problems I will wait to purchase them again if ever.
> 
> 1) The blades have way too much side to side play when deployed. They can touch the sidewalls. They need to have specific paths of travel, which they currently do not.
> 
> 2) The cut outs seem exceptionally large in the outside shroud where the blade travels. If the side to side play was reduced in the blades the cut out size could and should be reduced.
> 
> 3) Get rid of the need for the O-ring. I hate O-rings, the properties and mechanics are too hard to predict.
> 
> 4) If one blade does not open, the other two won't. This is one of my biggest gripes. (Currently the blades all have to open. If one cannot open the others will not). This one will be hard to cure because of the way the head is designed to open. It's all blades or nothing. Not good IMO.
> 
> 5) If you notice the post by Elk22hunter about "Last minute advice to Epek users" you will see that there is a "sweet spot" for the set screw position and it's somewhere in the middle. The first thing I did was take the Epek head apart after I bought it. The thing I noticed and did not like was the set screw. If someone did not take them apart or was not mechanically inclined they would not have noticed that there was a "sweet spot" for the set screw. There should be no way a user has to judge where the set screw works best.
> 
> Overall I feel like the concept is awesome and they have a good prototype, but everything feels too loose. The tolerances need to be tightened up and it needs to work like a proffessionaly made product. If you play with any of the other high end mechanical broadheads you will find that everything is really tight and feels expensive. The Epek head does not.


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## MEEN

And the second P.M.

*Re: EPEK experiences!
Sent at: Aug 24, '09, 6:42 
From: MEEN 
To: UZ-A-BOW *



> Your friends experience doesn't surprise me. Being an engineer, I can clearly see that the Epek head has a long ways to go before it's ready to use.
> 
> If I was you I would not even think about shooting an Epek if it's at a deer you want to keep. It's too risky. One of my heads had metal fillings behind the blades when I bought them. I lost a 160 class deer and regret trusting the Epek team and their testing.
> 
> Good luck with your hunt!
> 
> Camron.


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## elk22hunter

I shouldn't bite off on this but I will.

I have several photo's and stories from reputable people with great success. I get new photo's nearly every day and the testimonials are unreal. Having said that, I need to tell a couple of stories. Uz a Bow, I am not saying that you are a poor shot but last year at the parley's shoot, you were impressed with how good of a shot that I was. I don't feel that I am a great shot so I questioned your abilities. ha ha. I am joking!

I am not an engineer but my Grandfather was for Union Pacific. Does that count?

I have known of many animals hit in the area mentioned earlier in this thread. 4 inches higher than you would like. I call that "No Mans Land". I am sorry but there are NO vitals in this area. I am a seasoned hunter and have seen many heads long before the Epek head hit this area. It is right below the spine and above the lungs. There is a pocket of NOTHING right there and if hit will not produce a dead animal with any broadhead. A gut shot stands a much better chance of killing than a "no mans land" hit. Neither are great bleeders. Actually a gut shot almost ALWAYS results in death but a hard trail and a "No Mans Land" hit almost NEVER results in death.

I once hit a deer that had a great shot. I was so sure that I had slamed it that I watched it run away in anticipation of it dropping immediately. I trailed it with ok blood for 200 yards before it became dark. I had a flash light but backed off because if it wasn't dead yet then I had not hit it where I thought. I guess that I could have blamed it on the broadhead but went home to review the video footage of the hit. I watched it over and over at least 30 times. I did the slow motion to find exact point of impact. I was shocked that I had not retrieved my deer. I showed two other friends the same footage. Both freaked out at me and said, "you gave up your search twenty yards too soon. Lets go get your buck". With new hopes, I agreed with them, (the video looked to be a good shot) and we went after the buck. We searched for hours that night. I found sparatic blood with not much to go on. Several times we lost the blood and took great amounts of time in finding new evidence. I gave up at midnight and went home. The next morning proved to be not much better. I did not find even one spec of blood beyond where I had in the night. I started the serpentine method of just randomely looking for a dead deer. I was amazed an hour later when I came accross his dead body. I had a huge entrance hole, I had a huge exit hole with a complete pass through. Why had he gone 700 yards from the point of impact? Looking at the hole close up, I was surprised that it was further back than what I felt from the shot and the video. I opened him up and found a cut through one small corner of the lung. It went through the diaphram and through the liver then out of the front tip of the gut. I went back to the vido and paid close attention to the "other" side of the animal and not the near side that was right behind the shoulder. He turned to look my way and in doing so, tightened up his near side so when my shot appeared to be right behind the shoulder it was in fact further back because of the new angle that he had created. The far side streached the entire body out and as he looked back my way in a quartering away shot, his vitals moved forward as he bent his body around the corner to peer my way. I am very glad to have been able to show myself that what I thought to be the perfect shot was in fact NOT. My buck went 700 yards with a liver shot. My elk went 100 and died with the same shot. I don't know why. They both had the same cutting diameter and devestation. I am simply saying that the scenario could be that you didn't make the shot that you might have thought.


Last year, I gave my buddy a broadhead while elk hunting. I had killed the night before so I gave him an Epek. He came in after the morning hunt and said that he had hit a bull in the shoulder and it ran two steps then the arrow fell out. Upon inspection, it had 2 inches of blood on it. It had not penetrated the shoulder at all and did not prove to do anything to kill the animal. I was sick. I knew that he had made a crappy hit but how could I convince him that it was not the broadhead. Finally after a long pause, I said, "It was my broadhead?" He began laughing and said, "No, I didn't trust yours so I used my Muzzy". I know that muzzy is the broadhead most known for breaking bone. I hold NOTHING against Muzzy for that shot. Broadheads are NOT David Copperfield. They cannot do magical things. If you hit them right, they stand a much better chance than if wrong. I have seen too many times that a "perfect hit" when found was not so perfect. I am not calling you out by any means but have seen it too many times that WE are wrong in what we saw vs. the reality of the broadhead being at fault. Just yesterday I was reminded of that by shooting at targets. I was shooting at 60 yards and was sure that my hits were right where I wanted. I was shocked when I walked up to the target and found that I was a bit more sparse and sparatic than I thought. 

I hope that you find your deer. I would be however a bit less to jump on the fact that the broadhead didn't do it's job. In every instance that people have told us that after a miss, they inspected the head and it had not opened, we have shown that it did. When pulling them out of the ground or grass, they often close up again. If you look at the steel ring that sits between the head and the arrow insert, you should find three dents in the steel where the blades slammed against it. We may have one some day that has an error and doesn't open. We have not had that day yet however. In every case that we have mentioned that, they have said, "oh ya, it did". 

I am in no way saying that the broadhead cannot have error. We have however had unbelievable results and so have hundreds of others that have used them this year. I appreciate how you danced around a bit at first and didn't throw us under the bus. I would appreciate it more if you by chance thought for a moment that your "perfect shot" could have possibly not been so perfect. Lets find the animal and see your hit. I had three of us shoot bears this spring with the head. One shot resulted in a dead bear within 30 yards. Another went several hundred yards with a perfect quartering away shot. Upon inspection, the entrance was perfect but the bear in the excitement was confused for a quartering to him shot and exited through the same area that I mentioned on my deer. The last bear was a thought to be decent shot. Not perfect but maybe back a bit but went up into the vitals. Not much blood however. We found it the next morning about 200 yards from the point of hit. ALL GUT! 

Please be reasonable and not jump to conclusions until you have more evidence and then by all means if we are at fault, lets fix it. 

Was that long enough?


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## Bowdacious

Hey 22....


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## Bowdacious

Hey 22....last year I was impressed with the DISTANCE at which you were a good shot :wink: . I may not be the best shot in the world but I do know how to put one in the boiler at 40 yards. :lol:

I had that same shot on a deer last year and used a different head. The deer went 30 yards and expired. I do agree with you that something could have happened that I didn't see....that maybe my shot wasn't as great as I remember. I'm simply stating *MY* perspective. I wish I could find that buck and know what *HIS* perspective was. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find said animal. I went back up today and tonight and found nothing. I had no video on the animal, since I was alone, so I don't have the luxury of rewind, slow motion, and pause to *MAYBE* refresh my memory about what happened. All I know is the experience that I had with the product that I used and how it compared to the buck I shot last year. I hold nothing against EPEK and his guys but feel that to be completely fair both sides, success and failures, should be shared so that hunters have the information they need to be able to make their own decision. If this experience happened to me with any other type of broadhead I would have been on here saying the same thing. Like I had said, I know mine isn't the only unsuccessful story out there while using the EPEK, whether that is equipment failure, hunter failure, or just dumb luck I don't know...I just know there are others...even some with pics. 22 I think you've seen them.

I want to make sure everyone understands...I hold nothing against EPEK and his team, think they are great guys......I'm just blowing steam and frustration and wishing I had stuck with the broadhead that I know works.


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## Huge29

Elk22, you make many good points that are hard to dispute while simultaneously not being offensive nor defensive, like you said, the only way to ever know is to find the animal, good luck in doing so UzaBow!


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## TEX-O-BOB

EH22 speeketh the truth. There are simply to many variables involved to place the blame on one thing, (the broadhead being the easy victim in this case) Bad shots happen. Shots that look perfect and end up not so good after all, happen. Heres a perfect example.

A few years back my buddy and I found ourselves right smack in the middle of a herd of elk. I punched a 5 point in the guts right off the bat, and not 5 minutes later Garth placed a *perfect* arrow into a spike at 6 yards. I watched the arrow hit perfect about mid ship on a quartering angle and bury to the fletch. His elk ran off and after the dust settled we waited an hour to pick up his blood trail. I knew I'd hit mine too far back so I wasn't even going to start looking for blood for at least 5 hours. Well, we started in on Garths blood trail and it was an easy one, blood everywhere. We were sure this would lead us right to a dead spike bull. It lead us to his spike alright, but as we approached the bull jumped to his feet and ran down the mountain. With both our jaws dragging the ground we looked at each other in total disbelief. How is that bull still alive! :shock: We waited another hour and slipped in again after another short trail only to have the bull jump up again and run off. So we sat down, ate lunch and gave the bull two more hours. I told Garth to just nock an arrow and slip in on him like he's a bedded buck in case he still wasn't dead. "Just bugle if you find him", I said. Meanwhile, I went back the the scene of the crime to start on my tracking job since it had now been 5 hours. I hadn't been looking for ten minutes when Garth bugled at me. As I got close to him I said "did you find yer bull?" He said, "no, I found your bull!" Sure as sh*t, there was my five point, deader than a doornail not 75 yards from where I'd hit him. We took pictures of my bull and then he went off to continue the trail of his bull. An hour later he came back to help me with my bull and said he'd found his but it was STILL alive. After we got my bull in bags and cooling we sneaked over to see if his bull was dead yet, He was, but he hadn't been dead very long. After we quartered his bull (gutless method) we did the autopsy to see what had happened. The arrow had entered perfect, or so we thought, and just clipped the front of the liver going in. After it passed through the diaphragm it just clipped the back of the off side lung and then exited just behind the off side leg. A mortal wound for sure, but it took the bull almost seven hours to expire. What had looked like a crappy gut shot on my bull ended up being a very lethal liver shot that put him down quickly. And what had appeared to be a perfect quartering shot right through the boiler room on Garths bull tuned into a 7 hour nightmare. It would have been easy to blame the broadhead for that shot but it was just dumb luck the bull lived that long. Two inches more forward and the story would have been far different. Two lessons learned for two guys in one day.

It sux that you lost your deer dude, Spend enough time in the woods and It's gonna happen sooner or later. I wish you better luck in the future.


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## bowgy

I would say a 40 yard shot or any shot would be hard to say where it hit until you find the animal.

I was shooting 125 grain muzzy's a few years back, same sound, a big whack, it was a 35 yard shot broadside, never found the arrow, never found blood.

Later that year my friend took a deer on the rifle hunt within 100 yards of where I shot mine during the bowhunt, my son helped drag it down the hill and I asked him why his pant leg was all shreaded, he said it was the antlers, I said they couldn't have sliced it up so clean, I inspected the buck and found my broad head lodged in the jaw. It looked like the buck looked down at me when he heard the bow and his head covered the shoulder area and my arrow entered the right nostril, there was a perfect X scar on it, it went through the mouth and lodged in the left jaw with part of it sticking out. It had healed completely around the broad head and the buck was fat and eating well.

I didn't see him look down and that is the only way I could have hit him where I did cause he was uphill from me standing broadside facing left to right.

I had a friends elk jump the string at 35 yards and he hit it high. It healed up and was taken on the rifle hunt. His brother-in-law is a taxidermist and told him he found his elk, he brought the hide over and sure enough there was a perfect X scar on both sides of the hide where the arrow entered and exited.

I say you can't gauranty where it was hit till you find it. JMHO


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## TAK

Blaming this on a broadhead? Ya possible it did not work right, but is that the only factor? I shot a buck last year that I never found! ONly thing I was using a fix blade! Mine was only 27 yards!


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## MEEN

Elk22,
Thanks for the post. I agree with you on the area in the deer where nothing exists. No one will ever know exactly where my shot landed but the deer was above me and quartering away. A broadhead with a 1.70" cutting diameter entering high and traveling diagonally down through the animal should have clipped vitals somewhere. However, like you said it's speculation on my part that it was a decent shot but it's also speculation that it wasn't. I can tell you this much though. The arrow never went all the way through him. I watched him run away with atleast 6 inches of arrow sticking out of his right side. Blood was only found on the left side so I know it fully penetrated.

I posted my PM to UZ-A-BOW because of the *major irony*. I have never talked with UZ until those PM's were sent. I cautioned him about not using the Epek head and a few weeks later he had the same results as me. I think that's mostly his frustration. More than one person told him not to use them but he did and now has potentially lost a deer.

I think it's hard to deny the fact that I had THREE negative experiences with the Epek head (one bent shroud after hitting a twig and not expanding, one with a metal shavings underneath the blade, and one that maybe/maybe didnt do it's job), UZ-A-BOW had an experience nearly identical to mine, and UZ-A-Bow has a friend that had a negative experience as well. UZ-A-BOW's friend has concrete evidence but this thread was not meant to bash Epek broadheads.

All I ask is that the Epek team takes a look at how they can solve the five problems that I listed in my previous post.

I can tell you right now that the loose tolerances are what's causing these broadhead malfunction problems. Not only do the blades have freedom in the transverse direction but the outside shroud is way too loose.

Okay I am done talking about this topic.


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## deadicatedweim

Uz a bow at the time you were using the epeks were your sights set for the epeks or the fixed blades? Or did you just compensate for that? My bow shoots at least 3" inches different at 40 between a muzzy and epek.


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## TEX-O-BOB

> All I ask is that the Epek team takes a look at how they can solve the five problems that I listed in my previous post.


AND SOLVE WE WILL!

We like ALL feedback, be it positive or negative. That's the only way for a young company like ours to grow and improve. Thanks for all your thoughts everyone, and keep the feedback coming.


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## Treehugnhuntr

When I was a lad, I shot 3 different deer with a muzzy 3 blade and didn't recover any of them. I will never use a muzzy again. :idea: :?: :wink:


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## skeet4l

UAB, I'm with ya on this one, sorry I've been out of town for a while and wasn't available to comment. The story of the elk was my son in laws and with his permission I'll post some pics of the shot placement and broadhead results when I get a chance. I'll stand behind UAB's abilities as I've shot along side him. The question of placement or result is always a factor without good solid evidence which I'll also be happy to add. In short, I've replaced my EPEK's for now and will wait to see how they will be improved. Respectfully, Skeet.


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## bwhntr

I always find it interesting when someone states they made a "perfect" shot, yet never recovered the deer??? Obviously the shot wasn't perfect! I can kill a deer with a FIELD POINT with a perfect shot! :roll: If you didn't recover the deer, then you don't know really anything about the mechanics or what you arrow REALLY did. Good luck.

22, great insightful, educated post!


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## HOGAN

I am still going to be using these broadheads. I am certain they are good broadheads. The only thing that actually does spook me if anything is I will not have an exit wound. I am sure if you guys had it set up right, your heads opened. Just uncertain if it will leave a wide enough entry hole to leave enough blood. That is my only concern.

Like others have said wierd stuff happens, I shot an elk right through the vitals, could not have made a better shot, with a muzzy, and only found 1 pindrop of blood, 7 hour search and only 300 yards away he died. Shot a cow elk a few years later in the exact spot, a blood trail 8' wide and only about 70 yards long. Both arrows were used with a muzzy and were identical entry and exit. I am very excited to give testimony of my own hunt from these broadheads, so I can wigh in a little more. 

I am sure there is always room to grow, with all top of the line products, and glad to see the EPEK 3 team on it and working. Thanks guys.


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## TEX-O-BOB

> The only thing that actually does spook me if anything is I will not have an exit wound.


Why? Are you shooting a 40# bow? Most the critters I've seen taken with this head when used with a 60# bow or more have been pass through shots except when hitting the off leg. You should get a pass through if the angle is right and you're shooting at least 55 pounds...


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## HOGAN

Yes if I hit a rib, off leg, spine, whatever, that arrow enters and can angle any which way, most of the time it sail right through but if the angle is quartering away may get the leg bone. Then my ONLY fear would be that the broadhead did not leave big enough cut marks to leave a awesome blood trail. 

The head opens, every time, I am certain it opens with everyone on here. Just a little concern about the entry point and wish everyone would post pics of entry and exit on EVERY animal taken. Good or bad. I am pleased with this head and am using them until proven otherwise.


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## timberline

Wow this is interesting Ive watched 3 animals this year get wacked by an EPEK 2 elk and a deer and they all left awesome blood trails good entrance and exit wounds. And one was a marginal shot but the EPEK clipped the back of his lungs and exploded his liver went 200yds and was done. And that was on a big bull.


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## .45

Good post elk22...I believe you may actually know what you're talking about !! :shock:

Just one question though......You claim to be a _'seasoned'_ hunter....does that mean you are stinky and old ??

Is TEX-O-BOB also _'seasoned'_ ?? :?


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## TEX-O-BOB

I am defiantly a seasoned hunter. But unlike elk22 who is seasoned with garlic and Limburger cheese, I am more of a rosemary/tyme kind of seasoning... :mrgreen:


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## SaltLakeArcher

I am sorry you lost your animal, I hope you are able to find it. Not knowing the circumstances or being there to witness the events I will not speculate on anything. I would however like to post this bit of information that was an unbiased, unsolicited review on the Epek XC-3 by a consumer who lives outside of Utah. I mention he is outside of Utah so you may trust he has no agenda. I was impressed with how he put these through their paces.

"I would like to extend a brief review on this thread regarding the Epek XC-3 heads. I bought 2 packs of these from him(SaltLakeArcher) right at a month ago

I have taken right around 300 shots to date on the Epek heads(using the same 2 heads from a package of 3) and these babies for starters fly perfect with FP accuracy out to 45 yards(my max comfort zone under hunting conditions) The blades deploy every single time as well! And the ferulite body & blades on these are very TOUGH & SHARP! Not so much as even a ding or chip on the 2 tested heads! I have throughly shot and tested them through cardboard, 1/8'' plyboard, 1/4'' sheetrock and into several different 3D and Block style targets on my personal range here with more than optimal results! Again as mentioned the blades have deployed every time! And the cutting diameter is measuring up to the advertised 1 3/4'' cut. And they have a very unique feature as well which is very cool-you change the set screw on the main body of these heads from the hunting position to practice mode in a matter of seconds! Very cool idea they thought of!

I'll be hunting Ram, Hogs and Deer with these this season and I feel 100% confident that they will get the job done in short order with heavy bloodtrails! IMHO, these Epeks are one of the BEST heads to hit the market this year!"


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## HOGAN

And please do remember this entry concern I have which is minimal right now, is spectulation and look forward to proving my concern wrong. It is just a theory of mine how this broadhead could fail, otherwise the above post is acturate. I still respect MEEN and UZABOW problem and will take into consideration.


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## bucker

The saddest part about the situation is that we were promised how well this broadhead would be. It sounds like you had the SAME PROBLEM that my buddy had!!! It appears that the broadhead is not openning until it enters the animal instead of upon impact. The huge cutting radius appears to be doing plenty of damage inside, but no blood unless it passes completely through. They were having problems with this when they first started the development and finally said that they had it working PERFECTLY. I AM VERY PISSED OFF BECAUSE THEY LIED ABOUT IT TO LAUNCH A NEW PRODUCT BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON EVEN THOUGH THEY THEMSELVES KNEW THAT IT WAS NOT READY!!!!!

EXAMPLE'S!!!!!!!!!!

My buddy shot a deer this year, 40 yards, quartering away, Who couldn't ask for a better shot. Like you, he nailed it perfectly. We looked for the deer for the rest of the day and he shot it at 12:30 pm. There was not a drop of blood and no arrow. the arrow must have hit the opposite shoulder and not passed through. Sadly to say, a week and a half later, we found the dead buck. he was in some thick, thick brush only 60 yards away from where he was shot. We looked all over the mountain that day, but he crossed back a different way that we did not think he went. We still had to have walked within 10 yards of him. So there was no blood and no arrown and thanks to these Idiots at Epek for lying, my buddy lost a 170 archery buck!!!! what a bunch of CRAP!

To back it up, i also shot a cow elk this year. I shot her at 35 yards broadside. the arrow did not pass through her and the entry hole was just the size of the arrow. She ran off after i shot and i called her back in to where we could see her and there she died. After that i tried to see if i could track her anyway. i found one tiny speckle of blood where i shot her and tried tracking her, but there was so little blood, it took me an hour to just go 30 yards. After that, the blood dissapeared and i was lucky that i watched her die or else i would have lost her. It was a great shot, the broadheads are just not giving us a large entry hole. Thanks again to Epek for another great experience. i will never trust a company that LIES. everybody makes mistakes, but i guarantee you that they knew about the problem before hand, because they were trying to fix it before they launched. STAY AWAY FROM THE EPEK BROADHEAD!!!!!!


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## bucker

IF ANY OF YOU THAT ARE POSTING WITH EPEK, YOU SHOULD ADMIT IT!!! WE ALL NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!


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## bucker

HOGAN said:


> And please do remember this entry concern I have which is minimal right now, is spectulation and look forward to proving my concern wrong. It is just a theory of mine how this broadhead could fail, otherwise the above post is acturate. I still respect MEEN and UZABOW problem and will take into consideration.


It is true, please read my post below. the entry hole is the exact diameter of the arrow.


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## jahan

bucker said:


> The saddest part about the situation is that we were promised how well this broadhead would be. It sounds like you had the SAME PROBLEM that my buddy had!!! It appears that the broadhead is not openning until it enters the animal instead of upon impact. The huge cutting radius appears to be doing plenty of damage inside, but no blood unless it passes completely through. They were having problems with this when they first started the development and finally said that they had it working PERFECTLY. I AM VERY PISSED OFF BECAUSE THEY LIED ABOUT IT TO LAUNCH A NEW PRODUCT BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON EVEN THOUGH THEY THEMSELVES KNEW THAT IT WAS NOT READY!!!!!
> 
> EXAMPLE'S!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> My buddy shot a deer this year, 40 yards, quartering away, Who couldn't ask for a better shot. Like you, he nailed it perfectly. We looked for the deer for the rest of the day and he shot it at 12:30 pm. There was not a drop of blood and no arrow. the arrow must have hit the opposite shoulder and not passed through. Sadly to say, a week and a half later, we found the dead buck. he was in some thick, thick brush only 60 yards away from where he was shot. We looked all over the mountain that day, but he crossed back a different way that we did not think he went. We still had to have walked within 10 yards of him. So there was no blood and no arrown and thanks to these Idiots at Epek for lying, my buddy lost a 170 archery buck!!!! what a bunch of CRAP!
> 
> To back it up, i also shot a cow elk this year. I shot her at 35 yards broadside. the arrow did not pass through her and the entry hole was just the size of the arrow. She ran off after i shot and i called her back in to where we could see her and there she died. After that i tried to see if i could track her anyway. i found one tiny speckle of blood where i shot her and tried tracking her, but there was so little blood, it took me an hour to just go 30 yards. After that, the blood dissapeared and i was lucky that i watched her die or else i would have lost her. It was a great shot, the broadheads are just not giving us a large entry hole. Thanks again to Epek for another great experience. i will never trust a company that LIES. everybody makes mistakes, but i guarantee you that they knew about the problem before hand, because they were trying to fix it before they launched. STAY AWAY FROM THE EPEK BROADHEAD!!!!!!


Coming on here and slamming people is not going to help your buddy get his deer back. Also, it sounds like the meat went to waste, but he still got the deer, right? Sorry to hear about your story, but there is well over 10 good stories to every bad story I have heard. By the way they have never lied and I would hesitate from being a giant Douche on the internet.


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## jahan

bucker said:


> IF ANY OF YOU THAT ARE POSTING WITH EPEK, YOU SHOULD ADMIT IT!!! WE ALL NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!


Have you even spent a few mintues researching before you open your ****ing trap. Go look at their website or even this website and look at the huge entrance and exit wounds. There was an entrance wound on an antelope someone posted this year that you could stick your fist in. That was the biggest blood trail I have ever saw. The EPEK boys are good people and they won't be sucked down to your level, but I can and will. :twisted:


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## HOGAN

+1 you call someone a liar around here better be prepared to back it up.


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## elk22hunter

bucker said:


> IF ANY OF YOU THAT ARE POSTING WITH EPEK, YOU SHOULD ADMIT IT!!! WE ALL NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!


I'm with Epek and I'll be the first to admit the truth.................Your an IDIOT! :mrgreen:

I'm just messing with you as I can see you are frustrated and being vocal about it.

I have known from the beginning that we would have the people who will blame the broadhead for EVERY problem that they have. We have had some spectacular entrance wounds and we have had some bullet hole wounds. In the beginning we were having EVERY head open but were usually after entrance. We made the head longer to allow more time in this very split second time frame for the head to open. We also made the front chisel point broader so that for one it would smack the hide harder and cause the blades to open faster and also give a bigger hole to release blood if the hit was so fast that it got through the hide before becoming fully deployed. There are many factors involved. Speed being one. When an animal is his with a broadhead, it takes less than a blink to be completely through the animal. Our head is trying to open fully in about an inch of that travel distance that lasts less than a blink. Many times it accomplishes this. Sometimes it has proven to have not. In our testing we have tried to be better than the others. While a fixed blade Always is open on contact, they fly very sparatic and are not near as accurate. I feel that an inacurate shot with full deploy is worse than an accurate shot with a chance at a 2" delay but most likely to have a full deploy. The main reason that people shoot mechanicals over fixed is because of accuracy issues. Next thing is that we compared ourselves to the competition. I will not mention the other broadhead companies but we shot them all. Our head had more consistant and bigger entrance wounds than the others. One head that is being advertised more than any head out there on the outdoor channel has NO way of possibly opening on contact and is desgned to open inside the ribs to increase penetration. 
I am sorry that you had a bad experience. To call me a liar is unfair. If there is ANYTHING that we have going for us is our Honesty. We are a few "good ol boys" trying to make our experience with broadheads better and have chosen to share it with the rest of the hunting world. I am happy as a Pig in Poop with it and that is the "honest truth".
BTW that is too bad that your buddy had to leave the horns of the 170" buck on the mountain and could not claim them as his own................or was someone maybe not giving out the full truth?


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## SaltLakeArcher

bucker said:


> IF ANY OF YOU THAT ARE POSTING WITH EPEK, YOU SHOULD ADMIT IT!!! WE ALL NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!


If you spent anytime on these boards you would know exactly who represents Epek. It is no secret, they do not post under different names (like you perhaps? 3 posts all slamming Epek, seems suspicious).

There is a better way of expressing yourself than this. How about some pictures of the perfect shot your friend put on his deer? Or your cow elk? I can claim I shot an Elephant in the toe with an Epek and the trauma was so fierce it died in 3 yards, would you believe me without a picture?

I am officially unofficially with Epek and have spent a lot of time watching Greg and this broadhead. One thing I can tell you, and I mean this sincerely. Greg cares a thousand times more about putting out a quality product that does it's job well than he does about making money off it. He would not rush this thing to market before it was ready, he has tested this thing on, in, off, up, down, and around everything you could imagine. To come on here and call him and the Epek team liars is pure ignorance. The broadhead is the easy target when someone has problems. I would be curious to see how many "perfect" shots are not really perfect. I have shot many stationary targets at 20, 30, and longer yardages that I thought were right there in the money only to find they were a few inches off. Add to this the adrenaline of shooting an animal, possible wind, and the target moving you have the recipe for a not so perfect shot. Just my .02


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## bwhntr

I find it quite questionable someone would shoot a deer "perfectly," it runs off and dies within 60 yards (as he claims) and still can't find it??? Really? I think you really need to address your lack of ablility to find a dead deer within 60 yards! :roll:


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## mikevanwilder

bucker, didn't you say you found the deer? 60 yards away from where it was shot? That sounds like your buddy got his deer, maybe no meat but by telling us it was a 170 class deer that probably wasn't your main concern. And didn't you get your cow elk? I have no opinion either way about these broadheads as I haven't used them but everyone I have talked to has had nothing but success using them even if it didn't expand until inside the animal. To get on here and accuse someone of lying when you don't know any facts about it seems abit childish.


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## Duckholla

The strange thing about this whole post for me comes from the initial post. It was said that a loud "THWACK" was heard when your arrow met the animal. I have shot several animals in the past, I have heard several sounds when my arrow has met it's mark. I would dare say none of those shots, with the exception of one, made a loud "THWACK" including deer I killed a few years ago from 12 yards that broke a rib upon entry. The only "THWACK" sound that I have ever heard was on a deer that I shot at when I was younger that was probably too far of a shot, and I hit that animal in the shoulder. I clearely heard the "THWACK" you speak of here. Pehaps I am alone in this opinion, but my first thought upon reading your initial post was that you hit him square in the shoulder. The loud "THWACK" you heard would certainly come from a shoulder shot.
That's not to call you a "liar"...Lord knows there is enough name calling already being done...but I have to agree with elk22 and question whether or not your shot was indeed perfect. Lots of variables come into play when you are in the woods shooting at furry woodland creatures.

As for bucker's three posts....pretty bold talk in my opinion for somebody who makes an entrance into this forum without any credibility established prior to your first posts. I've been on here a long time, as have most others and we have spent many of hours reading, and learning from each other. Many, many, many posts long before your recent 3 posts have been inflouenced very positively by the so called "Liars" known as Epek and crew. It's one thing to question a product, and its abilities...it's quite another to accuse somebody a liar. I'd just assume you said thanks to Epek and crew for putting in the time and energy to produce a product that has indeed yeilded two animals of which you did recover. If saying thanks is too much effort...sor of like tracking a deer that dies within 60 yards is too much effort...perhaps coming up with a broadhead of your own that would change the spherical world you live in would suffice. I'll add my post to others on here. Epek and crew have your best interest at heart. If you don't beleive that...I am sure they won't miss your opinions on their products...go find something that works better for you. :roll:


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## Bowdacious

So, I have a serious concern joined by an actual experience that I personally experienced and everyone is tearing it apart and acting as if I were Columbus telling the masses that the world is round! 

Look, I am simply sharing my experience. After all, knowledge is power. I had heard bad experiences before I had used the broadhead...even seen pictures. So, I use the broadhead, make a great shot (one I've made on an animal before) and because of the experiences I have had I think it is only natural that I'm going to blame the broadhead. Like I had mentioned before, if this had happened with any other broadhead I would have told the same story. I understand that there could have been something that happened to not make my shot the great shot that I think it was.........I'm just sharing my experience. I would also think that since my experience is not unique, then I might not be so far off my rocker as ya'll think. 

I'm not Mad at the EPEK team, just disappointed with my experience with their product. However, the experience is what it is and I can't change that. The pictures I've seen and stories I've seen are what they are. I don't think that the broadhead having some kind of problem is entirely out of the rhelm of possibilites.......


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## skeet4l

After reading some of the trash on this thread I'm reluctant to put these out here but as I said I would, here they are. The first shot which isn't shown was at 30 yds and entered on the left side slightly low and behind the shoulder but did not pass through. It was slightly quartered away and the broad head had turned straight down breaking up and lodging in the center sternum area leaving 2/3 of the arrow sticking out. The second was at 50 yds and is as shown again broadside on the right but not passing through and losing one blade. The equipment used was 70 lb, 288 fps, 437 gr, Easton axis nanos and 100 gr EPEK broad heads. The corner of the heart was clipped and both lungs were penetrated leading to the end result, a dead, located bull. Both arrows were found on the ground. I find the accuracy impressive but the performance to be less than desirable. Here are a few ideas that may help, although the tip has been enlarged to aid in expansion I feel it hinders directive penetration so I'd like to see it greatly reduced letting the blades do the work, the grooves tightened up, the shell hardened or of stronger material and an acceptable structure analysis at compression. All however, may add significantly to weight and cost. Like so many other opinions, these are mine and I'm sure you'll all come to your own conclusions. I don't share blame to the broad head but question the overall outcome. In regards to the original post, the ability of the archer IMO shouldn't be faulted and my son in law also noted a loud thwack which may be due to the configuration of the tip. Hopefully seeing some pics will lay some of this to rest. Again, I stand alone with my findings/opinions.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ing201.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ads004.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ads006.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ads007.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ads008.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ads009.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/ ... ads010.jpg


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## jahan

I personally appreciate your post UZ-A-BOW and Skeets and Meens. You guys were very respectful and was voicing a concern. I am sure the EPEK boys appreciated it also, which a couple has already indicated. What I didn't like was bucker coming on here and calling people liars, which is far from the truth. Hopefully you three didn't take my post as pointed towards you guys, because it wasn't.


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## TAK

And anyone with these heads that dont want them please send them my way! I take anything that is FREE!


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## jahan

TAK said:


> And anyone with these heads that dont want them please send them my way! I take anything that is FREE!


I really think they should give them to me, TAK is a little crazy. :wink: :lol: :mrgreen:


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## mikevanwilder

Naw I'll take them, I can afford free!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## BucksNBulls

I guess nobody cares about your pictures SKEET!


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## jahan

BucksNBulls said:


> I guess nobody cares about your pictures SKEET!


I looked at them, elk down. I guess I didn't see anything out of place. The one with the shaft broken was a little surprising. My guess is he overtighten the set screw causing the casing to pop over top and snap the blade. Just a guess. :mrgreen: I had it happen once, at least the blade snapping and rather than blasting the good people at EPEK I PM'd them and Greg called me personally the next day, had me come down to the shop and showed me exactly what happened and how to fix it. Very classy and nice guy.


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## mikevanwilder

BucksNBulls said:


> I guess nobody cares about your pictures SKEET!


I looked at them too, but like I said earlier, I don't have an opinion because I have never used them myself, so if someone wants to give me theres I will gladly form my own opinion.


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## longbow

I just got back from hunting in Idaho and you guys are fighting about the EPEK broadhead. My email is full and my PMs are brimming with messages about how terrible and how great the EPEK is. It seems to be a fight between who has money into the EPEK and who doesn't. You all know how I feel about mechanicals, but I'd rather be proved wrong about these heads than go around thinking they're like the rest when they're not. I still say give them a chance until they prove themselves garbage. Both sides need to admit if they're in the wrong and work things out. I'm sure the EPEK investers want feedback so they can correct anything that might cause a problem. I'm also sure the EPEK users want a broadhead that, with a well placed shot, kills and performs like the good ol' fixed-blade and flys like a field point. 
Why don't you guys take a day off and calm down. Call each other in a day and talk about this.
*We're all brothers in bowhunting, let's act like it.*


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## idiot with a bow

wieeeeeeeerd....


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## jahan

longbow said:


> I just got back from hunting in Idaho and you guys are fighting about the EPEK broadhead. My email is full and my PMs are brimming with messages about how terrible and how great the EPEK is. It seems to be a fight between who has money into the EPEK and who doesn't. You all know how I feel about mechanicals, but I'd rather be proved wrong about these heads than go around thinking they're like the rest when they're not. I still say give them a chance until they prove themselves garbage. Both sides need to admit if they're in the wrong and work things out. I'm sure the EPEK investers want feedback so they can correct anything that might cause a problem. I'm also sure the EPEK users want a broadhead that, with a well placed shot, kills and performs like the good ol' fixed-blade and flys like a field point.
> Why don't you guys take a day off and calm down. Call each other in a day and talk about this.
> *We're all brothers in bowhunting, let's act like it.*


Not trying to be rude, but why would everyone be PMing you? Seems odd.  :? If you reread posts the EPEK boys and most of the other guys have been civil, all but bucker.


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## Duckholla

UZ-A-BOW - Not saying you don't have a point. Just wondering if hitting the shoulder was a possibility. Your post here was perfectly valid, and I thought respectful one as well.


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## idiot with a bow

by the way bucker, you spelled your name wrong...


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## TAK

BucksNBulls said:


> I guess nobody cares about your pictures SKEET!


I never seen them before I posted I wanted them... Wait I still do! You have any I will take them off you for FREE!

Just to many ways to factor something in here... I once shot an Elk with a 7mm and he dropped like a ton of Chit with one of those Molly coated, ballistic, silver tip, nosler, grand slam bullets and the following year the same bullet took me 4 right in the chest and the 5th in the head to bring down the massive bull to his knees!
My point is nothing is perfect! I don't settle on less par, but if your going to take a chance on a mechanical your are relying on something that just might be impossible to be perfect. Its push and pull. you want something that flys like a field point but is as failsafe as a fixed blade.

I read almost every post here and think that lots of good has came from it! Is it perfect hell no, I don't believe one can be perfect, nor is the fix blades! But they have been shown to have some super nice performance, and not so good of performance. Lets all hope that it performs great more than not so great! 
I am not even a true bow hunter either! I think it is to freaking hot that time of the year! But I do like to shoot me bow!


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## Treehugnhuntr

idiot with a bow said:


> by the way bucker, you spelled your name wrong...


Don't worry coach, I got it........


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## jahan

Treehugnhuntr said:


> idiot with a bow said:
> 
> 
> 
> by the way bucker, you spelled your name wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry coach, I got it........
Click to expand...

It kind of reminds me of that song from the Southpark Movie, "Your a bucker, Uncle bucker!" 8)


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## longbow

> I don't believe one can be perfect, nor is the fix blades!


 :shock: WHAT DID YOU SAY? You stay right where you are, I'm coming over and we're going to tangle.



> But they have been shown to have some super nice performance, and not so good of performance.


I agree TAK, sometimes even the greatest broadheads, (like Zwickys :wink: ), fail to produce the results you want.


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## deercatcherguy

I may not be Horacio Cain and may even not know how to put my sunglasses on cool but my first thought is internal bleeding. With that said, I am EPEK's little brother and I do lie Bucker..._you are such a stud!_.

I have had no personal experience with the EPEK broadhead aside from a glance shot that I had on a nice bull LE Wasatch ,clean miss, my fault. I have seen several pictures and video that indicate that the EPEK rivals the Texas Chainsaw Massacre as far as gore goes.

I have shot and been with a dude that shot a buck that bled very little externally but filled the body cavity with great gobs of blood. I once shot a buck that the exit wound was plugged up by vitals on their way out. Any of these could be the case for your buck. It sucks that you have not found it yet but I am confident that you will. Based on your angst, you seem like the type that will look until you find it.

I don't know a guy on here that if you PM'd wouldn't come help you look. That includes me! Good luck man!


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## fixed blade XC-3

Duckholla said:


> The strange thing about this whole post for me comes from the initial post. It was said that a loud "THWACK" was heard when your arrow met the animal. I have shot several animals in the past, I have heard several sounds when my arrow has met it's mark. I would dare say none of those shots, with the exception of one, made a loud "THWACK" including deer I killed a few years ago from 12 yards that broke a rib upon entry. T*he only "THWACK" sound that I have ever heard was on a deer that I shot at when I was younger that was probably too far of a shot, and I hit that animal in the shoulder. I clearely heard the "THWACK" you speak of here. Pehaps I am alone in this opinion, but my first thought upon reading your initial post was that you hit him square in the shoulder*. The loud "THWACK" you heard would certainly come from a shoulder shot.
> That's not to call you a "liar"...Lord knows there is enough name calling already being done...but I have to agree with elk22 and question whether or not your shot was indeed perfect. Lots of variables come into play when you are in the woods shooting at furry woodland creatures.
> 
> As for bucker's three posts....pretty bold talk in my opinion for somebody who makes an entrance into this forum without any credibility established prior to your first posts. I've been on here a long time, as have most others and we have spent many of hours reading, and learning from each other. Many, many, many posts long before your recent 3 posts have been inflouenced very positively by the so called "Liars" known as Epek and crew. It's one thing to question a product, and its abilities...it's quite another to accuse somebody a liar. I'd just assume you said thanks to Epek and crew for putting in the time and energy to produce a product that has indeed yeilded two animals of which you did recover. If saying thanks is too much effort...sor of like tracking a deer that dies within 60 yards is too much effort...perhaps coming up with a broadhead of your own that would change the spherical world you live in would suffice. I'll add my post to others on here. Epek and crew have your best interest at heart. If you don't beleive that...I am sure they won't miss your opinions on their products...go find something that works better for you. :roll:


That's exactly the first thing that came to my mind too. I had a post all writen out, but when I read over it I came off as a major dick and erased it. I like Uz-a-bow, and didn't want to be an a-hole to him.


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## inbowrange

1st: I shot a buck this year with the epeks and I had blood spraying out both sides about 10 feet long and the buck still went 250 yards.

2nd: Did anyone notice UZ-A-BOW shot and hit 2 deer in the same year? What happen to one deer for each tag? No he didn't say anything about seeing the deer and it wasn't fatally wounded!!!!!


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## MEEN

Geez I stop looking at this thread for a day and it blows up!

Bucker, While I don't dispute your claims as to how the broadhead functioned you are way out of line and clearly have some personal issues. The Epek guys are some of the most stand up guys you will meet.

I still think the Epek head has the _potential_to be the best head on the market. To be honest the Epek head is very impressive for a bunch of old farts using a toilet paper roll to come up with the initial design. However, it is weak on the engineering side of things and needs a little more work IMO .

Don't worry Jahan, I didn't take any offense and have enjoyed the posts on both sides except for the dbags post.

Epek crew: If you need some direction/help on how to go about solving some of these problems feel free to PM me. I would gladly offer any advice I can.



skeet4l said:


> The grooves tightened up, the shell hardened or of stronger material and an acceptable structure analysis at compression.


Skeet4l, Good post. I think you are right on and completely agree. I haven't looked to hard but the outside shroud appears to be made out of some type of aluminum alloy. I wish I knew which one because it would shed a ton of light on the situation. The pictures make sense as well. My one Epek head that hit a twig buckled in that exact same location without releasing the blades. Those are great suggestions. Here is a PM I sent early today. I believe something similar happened to the Epek head I hit my deer with.



MEEN said:


> Sent at: Sep 22, '09, 9:21
> From: MEEN
> There appears to be no stress concentration analysis on the outside head. Look at how many slots are milled out of it. Not only does that reduce the buckling strength but it introduces HUGE stress concentration factors.


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## idiot with a bow

I don't think UZ A BOW hit 2 deer in one year... Pretty sure he was referencing a deer from last year...


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## MEEN

> The only "THWACK" sound that I have ever heard was on a deer that I shot at when I was younger that was probably too far of a shot, and I hit that animal in the shoulder. I clearely heard the "THWACK" you speak of here. Pehaps I am alone in this opinion, but my first thought upon reading your initial post was that you hit him square in the shoulder.


The load THWACK is most likely the blades and outside shroud slamming open.



inbowrange said:


> 2nd: Did anyone notice UZ-A-BOW shot and hit 2 deer in the same year? What happen to one deer for each tag? No he didn't say anything about seeing the deer and it wasn't fatally wounded!!!!!


No one noticed because UZ-A-BOW never shot 2 deer in the same year! GEEZ! If your gonna be a dick be a dick to the right person.. I will let you go back through the posts and practice your reading comprehension.


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## Bowdacious

Duckholla said:


> UZ-A-BOW - Not saying you don't have a point. Just wondering if hitting the shoulder was a possibility. Your post here was perfectly valid, and I thought respectful one as well.


Yes, that is a "possibility", I already have mentioned that it could not have been the great shot I thought....however, It looked great and felt great. It is pretty easy to see where your arrow goes at 40 yrds. I'm not a crappy shot and don't get the usual "buck fever shakes" that most hunters do (I still get excited but it shows after the shot and upon retrieval of the animal.) Trust me, I wish I could find that **** buck and see what really happened.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I CAN ONLY TELL THE STORY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.


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## Bowdacious

fixed blade said:


> That's exactly the first thing that came to my mind too. I had a post all writen out, but when I read over it I came off as a major dick and erased it. I like Uz-a-bow, and didn't want to be an a-hole to him.


Thanks man, I appreciate it!



inbowrange said:


> 2nd: Did anyone notice UZ-A-BOW shot and hit 2 deer in the same year? What happen to one deer for each tag? No he didn't say anything about seeing the deer and it wasn't fatally wounded!!!!!


What are you smokin'? I've only said I have shot one deer this year. I did mention, however, that I shot a deer *LAST* year. But go ahead....be quick to jump all over my back and find fault in everything I say just because I have had a different experience than others and am not afraid to voice my opinion.


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## inbowrange

Sorry UZ-A-BOW I did go back and reread the post I got the names wrong it was MEEN. He missed one on the 16th, shot and hit a 4x4 on the 18th couldn't find it, and then shot and found a 2x3 on the 19th. Once again i'm sorry UZ-A-BOW.


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## gwailow

I missed a cow elk this year from 80 yards and couldn't find any blood. I blame EPEK.


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## jahan

MEEN said:


> Geez I stop looking at this thread for a day and it blows up!
> 
> Bucker, While I don't dispute your claims as to how the broadhead functioned you are way out of line and clearly have some personal issues. The Epek guys are some of the most stand up guys you will meet.
> 
> I still think the Epek head has the _potential_to be the best head on the market. To be honest the Epek head is very impressive for a bunch of old farts using a toilet paper roll to come up with the initial design. However, it is weak on the engineering side of things and needs a little more work IMO .
> 
> *Don't worry Jahan, I didn't take any offense and have enjoyed the posts on both sides except for the dbags post. * Glad to hear you didn't take offense.  Also I use Dbag so much it has almost become a term of endearment. 8)
> 
> Epek crew: If you need some direction/help on how to go about solving some of these problems feel free to PM me. I would gladly offer any advice I can.
> 
> 
> 
> skeet4l said:
> 
> 
> 
> The grooves tightened up, the shell hardened or of stronger material and an acceptable structure analysis at compression.
> 
> 
> 
> Skeet4l, Good post. I think you are right on and completely agree. I haven't looked to hard but the outside shroud appears to be made out of some type of aluminum alloy. I wish I knew which one because it would shed a ton of light on the situation. The pictures make sense as well. My one Epek head that hit a twig buckled in that exact same location without releasing the blades. Those are great suggestions. Here is a PM I sent early today. I believe something similar happened to the Epek head I hit my deer with.
> 
> 
> 
> MEEN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent at: Sep 22, '09, 9:21
> From: MEEN
> There appears to be no stress concentration analysis on the outside head. Look at how many slots are milled out of it. Not only does that reduce the buckling strength but it introduces HUGE stress concentration factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Duckholla

This is funny UZ-A-BOW....I bet when you initially posted this topic you NEVER thought this thread would go 8 pages and counting! :lol: :lol: Reminds me of the ol 1-eye deer. Somebody should revisit that post and bring it front and center. I don't think there has been another post that made me laugh harder than that one!

You're a good man UZ-A-BOW. Way to be a good sport!


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## jahan

The poo thread is classic.


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## MEEN

inbowrange said:


> He missed one on the 16th, shot and hit a 4x4 on the 18th couldn't find it, and then shot and found a 2x3 on the 19th.


I prefer to think of it as a 3x2 myself.


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## inbowrange

Either way thats pretty close to poaching in my book! And a very bad example of a respectable hunter!


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## jahan

inbowrange said:


> Either way thats pretty close to poaching in my book! And a very bad example of a respectable hunter!


I would disagree strongly. If you hit or wound an animal and can not find it, it is the decision of the hunter to go on or not. In my opinion, if you feel the animal survived you go on, if you feel the animal will die, then it is your decision to punch your tag or not. It is not poaching and basically calling Meen a poacher is very unfair and unwarranted on your part.


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## TAK

Personal Choice! I've ate tag soup this year and have many times not even bought a tag. It is my choice to take an animal after I have wounded one and made every effort in the world to retrieve it. That is not even close to poaching! 
I think those that punch the tag after loosing an animal that they know was hit and likley die but not retrieved it, in my book are some stand up people but, I won't down a person that continues hunting......


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## MEEN

inbowrange said:


> Either way thats pretty close to poaching in my book! And a very bad example of a respectable hunter!


Seems like you got your thong all twisted up because you called out the wrong guy the first time.

So far your comments on this thread have all been irrelevant to the topic at hand. You know nothing about what happened and your not worth explaining it too. I am 100% confident the deer didn't die.

I do have to say thanks though. Your comment was just the push I needed to go test the Epek head. Lets just say the results were nothing short of *TERRIFYING* and I have photos.

However, since I do have a shred of class unlike some people coughcoughbuckercoughcoughinbowrange. I have sent a PM to TEX-O-BOB expressing my concern. If he is confident with the EPEK head and thinks my findings are bogus I will post pics. If not I might keep what I found private.


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## Bowdacious

Duckholla said:


> This is funny UZ-A-BOW....I bet when you initially posted this topic you NEVER thought this thread would go 8 pages and counting! :lol: :lol: Reminds me of the ol 1-eye deer. Somebody should revisit that post and bring it front and center. I don't think there has been another post that made me laugh harder than that one!
> 
> You're a good man UZ-A-BOW. Way to be a good sport!


You are right, when I first posted this I thought it would just die right out of the chute....however, when I posted *WHAT* broadhead it was, I kinda figured that it might have a fighting chance! :wink:



jahan said:


> inbowrange said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either way thats pretty close to poaching in my book! And a very bad example of a respectable hunter!
> 
> 
> 
> I would disagree strongly. If you hit or wound an animal and can not find it, it is the decision of the hunter to go on or not. In my opinion, if you feel the animal survived you go on, if you feel the animal will die, then it is your decision to punch your tag or not. It is not poaching and basically calling Meen a poacher is very unfair and unwarranted on your part.
Click to expand...

I would also disagree...If I can't find it after I have given an honest and sincere effort and done all I could to find it, then it didn't happen. I won't consider my hunt over and punch a tag unless there are antlers on the wall or meat in the freezer! That's just the way I role.


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## 2litl2l8

MEEN said:


> I do have to say thanks though. Your comment was just the push I needed to go test the Epek head. Lets just say the results were nothing short of *TERRIFYING* and I have photos.


So the plot thickens....


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## coyoteslayer

Good heavens. I have read more posts about wounded deer this year than I did last year. 

What is the deal? It doesn't favor archers that well. 

I hope most of you are practicing almost every **** day. It's just sickening to read all these posts where deer were shot, but never recovered.

I have no opinion about the Epek, but maybe it has a few problems that need to be fixed.


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## idiot with a bow

Out of curiosity what other broad heads do you use and what is your bow sighted in for, the xc3s or the other heads you referenced? This could have made a big difference... At 40 yards 2 different broad heads probably are going to land in 2 different spots. Do you think this could have made a difference?


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## Bowdacious

idiot with a bow said:


> Out of curiosity what other broad heads do you use and what is your bow sighted in for, the xc3s or the other heads you referenced? This could have made a big difference... At 40 yards 2 different broad heads probably are going to land in 2 different spots. Do you think this could have made a difference?


What do you mean? Are you asking me?


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## idiot with a bow

You said you have 2 types of broadheads in your case, which one is your bow sighted in for?


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## Bowdacious

It's not sighted in for broadheads. It is sighted in for field tips and I shoot mechanicals. Both mechanicals that I shot, Epek and Trophy Ridge Undertakers (now meat seakers), shot exactly like my field points at 40 yards.


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## SaltLakeArcher

> I do have to say thanks though. Your comment was just the push I needed to go test the Epek head. Lets just say the results were nothing short of *TERRIFYING* and I have photos.
> 
> However, since I do have a shred of class unlike some people coughcoughbuckercoughcoughinbowrange. I have sent a PM to TEX-O-BOB expressing my concern. If he is confident with the EPEK head and thinks my findings are bogus I will post pics. If not I might keep what I found private.


Not trying to further stoke the fire here, and I am not sure I am reading this correctly. The above comment almost sounds like some kind of veiled threat? Why not just post the pictures with your findings? You have basically said (again, this is my perception) that you have found something horribly wrong with the Epek broadhead and unless someone at Epek validates your findings you will post pictures here? That doesnt make sense to me, to say you will keep what you found private after publicly saying you have found something "terrifying". It is no longer private, just obscure at this point and I don't understand why not putting up pictures is any better?


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## MEEN

SaltLakeArcher said:


> I do have to say thanks though. Your comment was just the push I needed to go test the Epek head. Lets just say the results were nothing short of *TERRIFYING* and I have photos.
> 
> However, since I do have a shred of class unlike some people coughcoughbuckercoughcoughinbowrange. I have sent a PM to TEX-O-BOB expressing my concern. If he is confident with the EPEK head and thinks my findings are bogus I will post pics. If not I might keep what I found private.
> 
> 
> 
> Not trying to further stoke the fire here, and I am not sure I am reading this correctly. The above comment almost sounds like some kind of veiled threat? Why not just post the pictures with your findings? You have basically said (again, this is my perception) that you have found something horribly wrong with the Epek broadhead and unless someone at Epek validates your findings you will post pictures here? That doesnt make sense to me, to say you will keep what you found private after publicly saying you have found something "terrifying". It is no longer private, just obscure at this point and I don't understand why not putting up pictures is any better?
Click to expand...

No threat just bad wording on my part. I just hadn't decided whether posting pictures would do anyone any good and didn't want people to think just because I don't post pictures that Epek is admitting guilt.

The pictures might be misinterpreted so I didn't post them and have decided not to. If anyone asks me if they should use the XC3 I will tell them to wait for now. That's my opinion. I am now dealing with the Epek concerns I have in private because publishing them on an internet forum does not accomplish what I want in the end. Which is to help the local guys.


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## elk22hunter

Meen, Greg is going to be back at for next weeks work week. I am sure that he'll be interested in what you have found. I just spoke with him tonight and they have been in Montana killing the crap out of Antelope with the Epek. He has seen nothing but awesome results. I can't wait to hear his spin on this. :wink:


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## izzydog

Uz, did you have a different experience with the meatseekers? My elk camp was 0 for 2 using those broadheads. One a complete pass through on a cow and a shot on a 5x5 that was right in the boiler and left a pretty good blood trail for a while. Neither one recovered after a lot of searching. I told my buddies they should be using the epeks and one did change to Rage and shot a bear that went 15 yards and died last week in Montana. After seeing first hand what the meatseekers couldn't do, I would never buy them. I have epeks on my arrows right now but haven't had a shot yet. I am almost afraid to release an arrow after all of this talk. Maybe it's finally time to ban archery hunts altogether.


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## SaltLakeArcher

izzydog said:


> Uz, did you have a different experience with the meatseekers? My elk camp was 0 for 2 using those broadheads. One a complete pass through on a cow and a shot on a 5x5 that was right in the boiler and left a pretty good blood trail for a while. Neither one recovered after a lot of searching. I told my buddies they should be using the epeks and one did change to Rage and shot a bear that went 15 yards and died last week in Montana. After seeing first hand what the meatseekers couldn't do, I would never buy them. I have epeks on my arrows right now but haven't had a shot yet. I am almost afraid to release an arrow after all of this talk. Maybe it's finally time to ban archery hunts altogether.


Izzy, my advice on the Epeks would be to make sure that you have the O ring on it, and then tap the end on a table or something to make sure the blades deploy. I have a pack that have the wrong sized O rings in them, they were quite difficult to roll up onto the back of the tip and made it hard for the shrowd to slide down. If you have the O rings on and the blades will pop easily you should not hesitate to use these.


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## izzydog

Thanks for the advice. I will try that tonight to make sure. I am still going to use the epeks so I hope they work out well. While playing around with them I did notice that 3 of my 6 definitely opened easier and smoother than the other 3.


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## SaltLakeArcher

izzydog said:


> Thanks for the advice. I will try that tonight to make sure. I am still going to use the epeks so I hope they work out well. While playing around with them I did notice that 3 of my 6 definitely opened easier and smoother than the other 3.


May be the O rings like I said. Check them and make sure there is no debris from the machining in them, if you have the proper O rings you should have a dead animal on your hands if you make the shot. Best of luck to you.


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## Bowdacious

izzydog said:


> Uz, did you have a different experience with the meatseekers? My elk camp was 0 for 2 using those broadheads. One a complete pass through on a cow and a shot on a 5x5 that was right in the boiler and left a pretty good blood trail for a while. Neither one recovered after a lot of searching. I told my buddies they should be using the epeks and one did change to Rage and shot a bear that went 15 yards and died last week in Montana. After seeing first hand what the meatseekers couldn't do, I would never buy them. I have epeks on my arrows right now but haven't had a shot yet. I am almost afraid to release an arrow after all of this talk. Maybe it's finally time to ban archery hunts altogether.


I've only shot one animal with them......the buck went 30 yards and dropped over dead!


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## Huge29

I thought of this post as Bigbean shot at a 6x6 elk this week, the shot was a little high and there was a single drop of blood anywhere. Just as I started writing my letter to the bullet manufacture to complain about what a poor product they had the elk was found about 100' from where it was shot. So, still confusing as to why there was no blood at all, there was the animal. For the full story look for NHS post.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

> I thought of this post as Bigbean shot at a 6x6 elk this week, the shot was a little high and there was a single drop of blood anywhere. Just as I started writing my letter to the bullet manufacture to complain about what a poor product they had the elk was found about 100' from where it was shot. So, still confusing as to why there was no blood at all, there was the animal. For the full story look for NHS post.


Holy cow, why was this thread allowed to continue??? Oh well, I'm resurrecting it from the dead. Here's why:
I had an excellent conversation with a group of engineers a few days ago. One of these guys is a Wyoming-ranch-raised-bowhunting-for-elk-out-of-the-womb type of guy. He also happens to be flown all over the country to consult for NASA, the military, and various manufacturers of anything that flies. This friend of mine gave me some valuable insight into why animals die when shot with various killing instruments. I don't understand it all but I'll see if I can attempt an explanation to some folks' questions.
Bullets don't kill like broadheads. They can, but that would be an imperfect scenario. An animal shot with a bullet should die because the stress the bullet places on the internal organs of the animal causes body tissue to burst beyond its elastic limits. The size of any entrance, exit, or blood trail should be irrelevant to bullet performance. It's what happens inside the body cavity that counts. Velocity is overrated. Too fast without enough stress and the bullet will have to depend on the animal bleeding to death rather than dying on the spot from organs reaching their elastic stress limits. The animal that drops right to the ground when hit in the boiler has essentially blown up from the inside. Its organs stop functioning right then and there.
A broadhead kills differently. Broadheads depend on kinetic energy, sharpness, angle, etc. to provide penetration. The broadhead must either shred a vital organ or cause enough bleeding to make the animal die from hemorrhage. Hitting the vitals becomes that much more important with an arrow because it is the actual cutting of the tissue that causes the animal to die.

Did I get all that correct? I think so. Anyway, if anybody wants to talk to an engineering consultant, I know just the guy.  
I think pretty much any of these modern broadheads will kill efficiently if applied correctly.


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## elk22hunter

BirdDogger said:


> I think pretty much any of these modern broadheads will kill efficiently if applied correctly.
Click to expand...

That has been my thinking all along. EVERY broadhead will kill if hit in the right place and that was the entire thought process behind the building of the Epek. "Lets get it to hit in the right place" became the driving force. We didn't want to build another mouse trap. We just want the mouse trap to slam shut while the mouse is in it. ACCURACY, ACCURACY, ACCURACY is what was in the forfront of our efforts. "Now that we have accuracy, lets ensure that it works". Having said that, I still believe that the broadhead works EVERY time and if hit in the right place will kill. The only flaws to it were that some were not getting an entrance hole with blade cuts and sometimes it was a "one shot" broadhead. It would break after the opening of the blades and the back part of the outer shroud would split causing it unusable again but non the less VERY DEADLY for that shot. We are working on "fixing" those two issues and should have great news accross the board for the new ones as well as the ones in stock very soon. Thanx for those who believe in us because I am telling the honest truth when I say that I have NEVER felt more comfortable with a broadhead or found one that I liked more than the Epek X-C3. I told Greg the other day that if we never sold another head and split the stock that we have, I would have enough to take care of my needs and I would shoot them the rest of my life and die a happy man!


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## mikevanwilder

Keep it up guys. No broadhead is prefect. I'm sure there are stories of lost animals for every broadhead on the market. I will be doing my test on the Epeks this year and expect great things. But I will keep in mind that alot depends on me and where I place the shot.


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## Bowdacious

Way to kiss up Mike....Just kidding. 

I want to know how in the he** somebody found this post again after all this time?


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## mikevanwilder

Oh man your right.  No Epek broadheads suck.


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