# Problem?!?



## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

So I posted a thread about this a few years ago. Then it was my 204 when I went to shoot a coyote all I got was a click. It happened three times all while trying to shoot coyotes. I pulled the bullets and found the powder had been burnt. My load was a Hornady case with H322 with a CCI small rifle primer. I contacted CCI had told them my problem and they said that with a 204 I need to seat the primer deeper than normal. I tried this with the same results, not while hunting though. I switched primers to Remington and Federal. Never had the problem again with the 204. 
Now I have been using CCI primers for as long as I've been reloading. I continued to use the large rifle primers with no problems, until now. 
I had reloaded some rounds for my 243 for my wife to use on her deer hunt. I used a Remington case with a Nosler 95 gr BT with RL22 and of course CCI large rifle magnum primer. 
Went to the range and out of 25 shots 4 had that same problem.
At first I didnt think it was the same problem as I have never had the large rifle magnum or regular primers fail on me. Got home and pulled the bullet, same thing! 
I now cannot trust them and I let them know. I went to sportsmans and bought some Federal primers and loaded my wife up some trust worthy loads. 
I dont know if Im the only one that has had this happen but it is frustrating to say the least.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

That is really odd Mike. I have never had that happen to me and you are the only one that I have ever heard of this happening to. The thing that I find really odd is that the powder has been burned. In my mind if the powder burns, that means proper ignition and the bullet should receive pressure and fire like normal. 

Out of curiosity, were you also using H322 in your .204? Im just curious if it could be a bad batch of powder if you were using the same lot?


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

I continued using it in the 204 with the Federal primers with no problems. I used RL 22 in the 243. It is wierd that the powder has been burned. I just cant figure it out how it can burn like that without igniting.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

did a google search here are some other ones also
http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... dd3a8d18f0

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthrea ... r-problems


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I am way to old to say "never", but I don't believe you had powder in those cases. If the powder "burned", the gun will go bang! No ifs, or buts! Now, if you still had the powder in the case but it looked a little scorched, thats different. Failure to ignite can be due to several things, faulty/damaged primers is certainly one. Anyway, kind of a strange story. I hope I just didn't misunderstand what you meant by "found the powder had been burnt" , but if the different primers solved the problem, great.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

The primers going off alone would/should have enough power to push the bullet down inside the barrel. A squib load non-the less most rifles do not have a crimp.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> The primers going off alone would/should have enough power to push the bullet down inside the barrel. A squib load non-the less most rifles do not have a crimp.


+1 . Did you hear the primer pop ? 
Also , I'm curious as to how you get the primer into the case ????


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> The primers going off alone would/should have enough power to push the bullet down inside the barrel. A squib load non-the less most rifles do not have a crimp.


I agree, the primer alone should push a .204 or .243 bullet. Don't ask me how I know that.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

BP I actually thought of that after the first 2 didn't go off. so I shook the next ones and could hear the powder in it. 
With the 204 I know I had powder in them as I used a Lyman Automatic powder measure. It keeps track of the number of loads it has thrown. The 243 was a possibility as I went back to a manual powder measure. I always double check my work from begining to end, but still thought of that. I also knew, or thought that a primer alone would atleast discharge the bullet from the case.
Al I didn't notice an audible pop, just sounded like the firing pin clicking. I checked to make sure it had struck the primer and they had all been struck.
I load my primers with an autoloader that hooks onto my RCBS press. I don't ever touch them with my fingers.


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## burge (Sep 11, 2007)

Reusing primers maybe? Or maybe some didn't get de-primed?


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## burge (Sep 11, 2007)

Scratching my head on this one.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

The powder is burned away, as in none left, all burned? Or is it still there and looked discolored as if singed by the primer but not ignited.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

The H322 had bits of powder left, the RL-22 was completely burnt. Even the bullets had burnt powder on the bases.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

sagebrush said:


> did a google search here are some other ones also
> http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... dd3a8d18f0
> 
> http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthrea ... r-problems


Thanks Sage for those links, the second sounds alot like my problem. I have a ton of CCI primers left, but now I can't trust them. Its one thing to have it happen target shooting, but when I'm hunting and it happens... :evil: 
The guy in that second link sounds like he got the same reception I got from CCI reps!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm curious. Have you by chance asked any of the powder manufacturers about this?

I just cant seem to understand _how_ the powder is igniting, but not creating the pressure needed to even make the bullet dislodge from the case. So strange....

I nominate this thread as the conundrum of the month.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

I have not, reason being is that once I switched primers the problem disappeared. I used powder from the same bottle with different primers and not one problem. 
I did have every intention of contacting hodgdon and asking them.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

When powder burns it makes gas, lots of it. The gas had to go somewhere. Is the case around the primer or bullet dirty?


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Cooky said:


> When powder burns it makes gas, lots of it. The gas had to go somewhere. Is the case around the primer or bullet dirty?


Yes around the bullet was extremely dirty.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

mikevanwilder said:


> BP I actually thought of that after the first 2 didn't go off. so I shook the next ones and could hear the powder in it.
> With the 204 I know I had powder in them as I used a Lyman Automatic powder measure. It keeps track of the number of loads it has thrown. The 243 was a possibility as I went back to a manual powder measure. I always double check my work from begining to end, but still thought of that. I also knew, or thought that a primer alone would atleast discharge the bullet from the case.
> Al I didn't notice an audible pop, just sounded like the firing pin clicking. I checked to make sure it had struck the primer and they had all been struck.
> I load my primers with an autoloader that hooks onto my RCBS press. I don't ever touch them with my fingers.


I was thinking contaminated primer. Very weird. Years ago before I had a auto primer I used to put each primer (by finger tip) into the primer cup to be pushed into the primer pocket. Oil from my finger tips would contaminate the primers.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

here is what one individual said about his problems using cci primers
quote"I never had a problem with CCI primers except one time I loaded up some 303 British and had about 6 misfires out of 20. I was using a hand seater which I don't normally do but was on vacation and brought only basic reloading equipment. Found out I was seating them to hard and deep apparently doing something to them. Corrected that and no more misfires. So it wasn't the primers but the way I was seating them", Ray 

this could be what happened with your primers or cci made some primers that did not have any explosive compound in the primer. as for the powder i can not believe that the powder is the problem or did not ignite completely. either it burns or it does not. unless is was contaminated it self.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I believe you had two things going on here: #1, in the case were you only went "click", you had bad primers, improperly seated primers or faulty mechanical problem(not too likely with two guns) or #2, you had bad/contaminated powder. I tent to think that you had or are having some ongoing events in you loading area/equipment that contaminated the powder and or the primers rendering it/them inoperative or partially inoperative. Primers and powder are contaminated in the same manor...usually moister. In the case were you had unburned powder, you had contaminated primers(failure to ignite the powder), in the case where you had completely burned powder, the powder must have been contaminated. 
Try to think back and remember, and examine your loading area closely, and try and find something that could have contaminated...steam from someone showering?, high humidly from a clothes dryer?,???. Powder in the can is contaminated from the top surface down so it is possibly that some of the powder in a can is contaminated and some still ok. Still a really strange set of circumstances and I am just trying to think outside the box...as they say...good luck


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

The RL-22 powder was bought that day and I went to reload it as soon as I got it home. So it didn't have time to get contaminated. 
I will just use another primer and the problem is solved.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Mike, I think you are right. Its sad to hear that CCI's QC isnt doing the job and they are putting their name on shoddy products. But its good that Federal makes quality primers


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Glad you didn't have one hurt you or the gun.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Cooky said:


> Glad you didn't have one hurt you or the gun.


Thats the most important thing!


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