# Hack My Misfires



## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

What tips and tricks do you have to prevent misfires with a muzzleloader?

Over the past two years, I've had two misfires while muzzy hunting when shooting at bucks. The stories are a little verbose, so I'll leave those at the end of the post for those interested. This never happens at the range, for some reason it only happens when it really counts. I went out last week to sight in and it worked flawlessly for the 5 shots I took.

My setup:


CVA Accura V2 with the blackhorn 209 breech plug
Blackhorn 209 powder
CCI magnum 209 shotshell primer
290 gr. Barnes TEZ
Instance 1:

Friday night my 13-year-old son had an opportunity on a great buck, far bigger than I've ever taken. He pulls the trigger, primer goes off, no bang. Load another primer pulls the trigger again, primer goes off, doesn't ignite the powder. Again.

I pull the breech, dump the powder and bullet and reload (all the while my bro-in-law hands him his muzzy and he takes a shot with it). The buck just stands there, a clean miss. Just as I finish loading and putting a new primer in, the buck runs off. He must have been standing there for a few minutes, he had a serious death wish. When we got back to the truck, I fired off a round to make sure it was working and it functioned properly. What the freak? I originally loaded this round the morning of the Wednesday opener. It was hot and dry, hiked about 5 miles round trip that day. Left the powder and bullet in and that was the same powder/bullet in the gun from a couple of days prior. Should I be loading fresh powder every time I go out?

Instance 2:

Last year, last 20 minutes of shooting light, the last day of the hunt. I hiked in 2-3 miles where I had seen two small bucks that I passed on earlier in the hunt. It was raining most of the way up and continued rain while I glassed for the bucks. I put a ballon over the barrel to keep the water out. I spotted two bucks about 300 yards away and had to cut the distance in short order, heading through some thick oak brush. To go faster, I left my pack behind and like an idiot, left my quick reloads with it. I remember tripping and falling hard a couple of times on the way over. I finally cut the distance to 100 yards, steady for the shot and click. Primer goes off. No bang. Load another primer, click. Load another primer, click. I think I pulled the trigger 7-8 times, using the remaining primers I had on me. There was no way to make it back to my pack for another load and the bucks walked off as the last few minutes of the hunt ticked away. Tag soup. This was fresh powder that I loaded before heading out for the evening hunt, just a few hours before shooting at the buck.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Have you tried different primers? I only use the Winchester 209 supposedly they burn hottest but I'm no expert. Weird you have no issues until go time almost sounds like a moisture issue

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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

weaversamuel76 said:


> Have you tried different primers?


I haven't. The recommended primer for Blackhorn 209 by the manufacturer is the primer I'm using (CCI magnum shotshell 209). I thought that would be a good bet. It's worked great on the range, just those 2 instances.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

I’ll also add that in both cases the primers fired normally (I think). There was smoke and made a popping noise.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I disassemble the entire breech prior to loading for my hunt. I make sure the entire flame channel is clean and clear. I carefully reassemble and as a final check, I shine a light on the breech and make sure I can see light from the bore of the gun coming through.

I'm fairly meticulous about my loading prior to hunt routine. Had my son dump his powder tonight due to the wet conditions we were in, he'll load back up before he heads out again.


Also, make sure your fingers are dry from both moisture and oils when handling primers. They are "supposed" to be sealed but I never trust that. I try to handle the primers by the edges only.



-DallanC


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I read of a few other instances where people had this happen with BH 209 and most replies thought the load wasn't compressed enough. I'm sure you have reference mark so know this wasn't the cause. I assume the 1st and 2nd FTF were from different bottles of BH209 that's really strange.

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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

weaversamuel76 said:


> I read of a few other instances where people had this happen with BH 209 and most replies thought the load wasn't compressed enough. I'm sure you have reference mark so know this wasn't the cause. I assume the 1st and 2nd FTF were from different bottles of BH209 that's really strange.
> 
> Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


I do have a reference mark on my ramrod I push to. How much pressure should one put on the load to compress it? I usually make sure it is snug but don't jam it down.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

DallanC said:


> I disassemble the entire breech prior to loading for my hunt. I make sure the entire flame channel is clean and clear. I carefully reassemble and as a final check, I shine a light on the breech and make sure I can see light from the bore of the gun coming through.
> 
> I'm fairly meticulous about my loading prior to hunt routine. Had my son dump his powder tonight due to the wet conditions we were in, he'll load back up before he heads out again.
> 
> ...


I do the same with the flame channel, hold it up to the light to make sure I can see though it. I have a small wire tool I poke through the channel as well to clear anything out.

I haven't treated my primers that way, but that makes sense. I usually carry them in the box they came in the field sealed in a ziploc bag. I'll try to me more careful in handling them in the future.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

if i recall, blackhorn powder has issues with a loose pack. do some reading but this is why i do not shoot it. too many reports of failure to ignite. just like your smokeless rounds, carrying it around may sift the powder a bit and change how it sits in "chamber".

the other issue that you may be having is that BH209 recommends a special breech plug. i believe it has a larger opening and could be a problem.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Also make sure the primers are seated tight against the nipple / carrier. That was one primary reason for failure of the old #11 caps, people wouldnt seat them tight enough and the hammer didnt have the force to seat it and fire it. It would just press it in tighter and the 2nd drop of the hammer would usually fire it.

I used to grind down the circumferance of my #11 cap nipples so they would seat properly and easily.


-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Dad has the same setup and works great.

I agree on something being loose or not seated properly. 

On those, can't you adjust your firing pin bushing to tighten up your headspace?

Sometimes people have different luck with different primers because they are just sized different enough, that the pin and seating change.

Have you never had a problem at the range? Weird it is happening when deer are present, perhaps rushing is changing things?


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

APD said:


> the other issue that you may be having is that BH209 recommends a special breech plug. i believe it has a larger opening and could be a problem.


I am shooting the special BH209 breech plug, so I don't think that's the issue.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

DallanC said:


> Also make sure the primers are seated tight against the nipple / carrier. That was one primary reason for failure of the old #11 caps, people wouldnt seat them tight enough and the hammer didnt have the force to seat it and fire it. It would just press it in tighter and the 2nd drop of the hammer would usually fire it.
> 
> I used to grind down the circumferance of my #11 cap nipples so they would seat properly and easily.
> 
> -DallanC


I'll check that when I get home. The primers are igniting, but perhaps if it isn't seated fully the full blast of the primer isn't making it to the powder?


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

RandomElk16 said:


> Dad has the same setup and works great.
> 
> I agree on something being loose or not seated properly.
> 
> ...


No problems at the range. Works everytime.

One thought I had is, perhaps while hiking or during vehicle travel the bullet may shift down the barrel (perhaps while carrying with the muzzle down) leaving dead space and unpacked powder? I checked this after Saturday's hunt and the bullet was still in the right spot, though, but I suppose this could have happened on Friday for the misfire. Maybe I should switch to the TMZ that fit tighter in the barrel?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

brisket said:


> I'll check that when I get home. The primers are igniting, but perhaps if it isn't seated fully the full blast of the primer isn't making it to the powder?


If the primers are going off every time... that eliminates alot of variables. That only leaves:

1. Weak or not hot enough primers
2. Restrictions in the flame channel
3. Old or Poor powder.

Now if you were getting light strikes on the primer, and is not going off, thats an entirely different problem.

-DallanC


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

replace the Blackhorn breach plug with the CVA plug that came with the rifle. I bet that sucker will blow a bullet out the barrel. 


I tested some BH out of a CVA and I didn't use the "special breach plug". Fired every time. BTW, I tossed the BH and went back to 777 fff.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> replace the Blackhorn breach plug with the CVA plug that came with the rifle. I bet that sucker will blow a bullet out the barrel.
> 
> I tested some BH out of a CVA and I didn't use the "special breach plug". Fired every time. BTW, I tossed the BH and went back to 777 fff.


BH207 requires a very tight flame channel or accuracy goes right to hell. In fact, depending on the type of steel the breech is made from, ***THE BREECH CAN ERODE ENOUGH TO AFFECT ACCURACY WITHIN 35 SHOTS***

The conversion kit I did on my Rem 700ML that now has "supported" primers, uses Lehigh Vent Liners that can be replaced as it etches the flame channel. I also bought a .036" guide pin sold by the kits MFG that I can use to quickly test when I need to swap out my vents.

Sadly... I didnt know about the whole vent eroding thing mentioned in BH209 threads until after I had bought my kit. Luckily I can replace my vents for about $6 each. Those guns that require an entirely new breeches just to shoot BH209 might become really costly when the flame channel exceeds .035". If I were in that boat I would have the breech drilled and tapped to use vent liners.

I'll bet if you used the standard breech with BH209 you got noticably crappy accuracy.

But... I fully agree with moving from BH209 back to other powders. Luckily, the primary reason I converted my Rem700ML was to stop the gas blow back into my bolt, which required time consuming cleaning. I probably will go back to pyro RS when I shootup the remainder of my BH209. Nothing shoots tighter groups for me than 90gr RS under a 240gr XTP.

Cheap quality Vent Liners, you can also buy the gauge pin on this same page.

https://www.badgerridgeind.com/store/p11/LehighVentLiner.html

-DallanC


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## NH Hunter (Feb 4, 2008)

I bought some BH 209 to try in my 700 MLS but have never tried it out. My MZ is in Colorado (I leave it at my buddy's house) and I live in MI now. I use 777 and I have 80% of a full jug out there. Mine fires every time. I have never had a misfire but I make sure my barrel is taped over the muzzle and the breach is taped up. I only load it at the beginning of the season and unload it at the end. The powder is always dry when I've checked it. I agree that taking the bolt apart after firing is a PITA. I converted to 209's about a year after I got it. Never looked back.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

NH Hunter said:


> I bought some BH 209 to try in my 700 MLS but have never tried it out.


You CANNOT use BH209 in the original 700ML/MLS with the unsupported primer. If you want to do so, you need the Badger Ridge bolt conversion kit.

I absolutely recommend this kit for the 700ML no mater what powder you use, as it seals the breech stopping blow by.

https://www.badgerridgeind.com/store/p10/700ML_KIT.html

I love the kit and dont understand how Remington didnt design it this way from the get-go. It fixes the only flaw in an otherwise perfect rifle.

-DallanC


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

CCI mag primers are hotter then WIN 209 primers so don't switch to the WIN primers. 

Make sure the flash channel is clean and free of oil as well as the powder chamber and barrel. If you want a little oil in the barrel after loading run a very lightly oiled patch down the bore after the rifle is loaded. 

Make darn sure that the bullet isn't moving off the powder not only for ignition but its a safety issue as well if you get bullet creep. I would load up the rifle, measure the ram rod depth then bounce the rifle around in the pickup for a few days just to check for this if I had any concern I was getting bullet movement.

I've got well over 400 rounds fired through 2 different muzzys with 110 grains of BH209 and never had a misfire or any other issues mentioned above. My rifles have been wet, cold and loaded for a few weeks at a time and always go off.

Have you cleaned out your breach plug flash channel with a drill bit? BH will crud up the flash channel effectively reducing its size down to about nothing. Take a drill bit that fits your flash channel and hand turn it cutting the crud off the walls. I do this dry before adding any cleaner as the crud cuts off and comes out easy dry, I then add some cleaner and turn the bit again just to make sure then scrub the channel with a bore brush that fits followed by pipe cleaners to finish up.

I would say if you don't have a problem at the range then you have a moisture or bullet creep issue.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

muddydogs said:


> Make sure the flash channel is clean and free of oil as well as the powder chamber and barrel. If you want a little oil in the barrel after loading run a very lightly oiled patch down the bore after the rifle is loaded.


Dont use oil. Use Bore Butter. Oil will absorb into powder, Bore Butter wont to this as much.



> Make darn sure that the bullet isn't moving off the powder not only for ignition but its a safety issue as well if you get bullet creep. I would load up the rifle, measure the ram rod depth then bounce the rifle around in the pickup for a few days just to check for this if I had any concern I was getting bullet movement.


I've never seen a bullet slip except in the older days where people were mixing bullet diameters and the wrong sabots... or using 50cal projectiles in 52cal guns etc. But my gun rattles a ton on the ATV moving to my hunting spot, and I've measured but never seen the bullet move.



> I've got well over 400 rounds fired through 2 different muzzys with 110 grains of BH209 and never had a misfire or any other issues mentioned above. My rifles have been wet, cold and loaded for a few weeks at a time and always go off.


Thats alot of shooting. Have you measured your flame channel to see if its opened up?



> Have you cleaned out your breach plug flash channel with a drill bit? BH will crud up the flash channel effectively reducing its size down to about nothing. Take a drill bit that fits your flash channel and hand turn it cutting the crud off the walls. I do this dry before adding any cleaner as the crud cuts off and comes out easy dry, I then add some cleaner and turn the bit again just to make sure then scrub the channel with a bore brush that fits followed by pipe cleaners to finish up.


You can order the micro drill bits off of ebay for like $6, I use them for cleaning ATV carb jets, but you are right its useful to clean out small holes. Just use your fingers and carefully remove fouling... you are not trying to remove metal.



> I would say if you don't have a problem at the range then you have a moisture or bullet creep issue.


Moisture, oil fouling or primer is my guess. I highly doubt its bullet creep.

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Micro bits $5:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-0-1m...=15328369449320e1608578024d8d8dcbe5dd0902d9ac

I'm always amazed when I get these out, that they can make bits this small, .1MM is super tiny!

-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I use this stuff. Take the O-ring off and let it sit. Just like the old carb cleaner kits.

Then I use a breech cleaning tool. Micro bits are great too!

https://www.amazon.com/Thompson-Center-Arms-Accessories-Cleaner/dp/B00162OK02

Edit: That reminds me - I also buy and have on hand extra O-rings to replace and keep a nice seal.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Dont use oil. Use Bore Butter. Oil will absorb into powder, Bore Butter wont to this as much.
> 
> I've never seen a bullet slip except in the older days where people were mixing bullet diameters and the wrong sabots... or using 50cal projectiles in 52cal guns etc. But my gun rattles a ton on the ATV moving to my hunting spot, and I've measured but never seen the bullet move.
> 
> -DallanC


Depending on the bullet and sabot you can find combos that are loose or won't even load. I went through a few sabots looking for the combo my rifles like best and I found a few loose combos as well as a couple that I couldn't even get down the tube. I've read a few accounts of loose bullets the last couple years here and there. It's probably unlikely but something to check out before something bad happens.

Oil works fine for me, I use a lightly oiled patch and a tight fitting bullet so I have no concerns. Only rifle I do this to is an old inline I purchased already pitted so I like to add some oil so the pitting doesn't get any worse.

My flash channel is fine, may need to replace breach plug at some point but not any time soon.

To clean the flash channel on my rifle it sure isn't a micro bit size just a standard small drill bit. To clean the little flash hole at the end of the channel I just use an oxy acetylene torch tip cleaner set that can be purchase about anywhere for under $5.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

brisket,

what are you cleaning the bore with and how wet/dry do you leave it?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

muddydogs said:


> Depending on the bullet and sabot you can find combos that are loose or won't even load. I went through a few sabots looking for the combo my rifles like best and I found a few loose combos as well as a couple that I couldn't even get down the tube. I've read a few accounts of loose bullets the last couple years here and there. It's probably unlikely but something to check out before something bad happens.


You and me are some of the rare ones then. We mix bullets and sabots to get that precise fit. And yes, like I said mixing the wrong sabot with bullet can be a looser fit, but I haven't seen or heard of anyone experimenting with different combos lately.

Most guys now a day buy a 10 pack of bullets & sabots combos and just use that.

Back to the OP... maybe try a different type of powder and see if that ignites easily or has similar issues? Like Pyro RS or even the real stuff: Goex FF

-DallanC


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