# Banning Spearfishing



## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

I was looking through the results of last year's fishing survey and I found that many people wanted to ban spearfishing in Utah.

Many said that it was hunting, not fishing. I don't see why that's offered as a reason to ban it. Worse, many more gave no reason. 

To those of you who would like to ban spearfishing, why? I don't get it.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I personally don't have an opinion on whether it should or should not be banned. I would guess it's because people think spear fishermen can more easily kill large fish (not sure if that's true at all but it does make sense that an angler who can more easily see the fish he targets can be more selective). And, as we know, many non-spear fishermen would rather not see many large fish killed and removed from the waters they like to fish.


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Anyone that wants to ban spear fishing has likely never done it. I used to think you could go under water and see for miles. It seemed that shooting a fish would be a piece of cake...then I went spear fishing. It is much harder than I thought. Visibility is usually 10 feet or so and it's not easy hitting a moving target that spooks when you move your gun. Given the difficulty of the sport, and the extremely small number of people that do it, a ban would be idiotic. 

People used to occasionally do pretty well on large splake and macks at Fish Lake with spears. If they timed it just right they could find big fish in shallow. Jealous anglers complained loudly and the state put restrictions on it. Now that opportunity has been pretty much taken away with the season dates on spear fishing. People just can't stand to see others having success I suppose. I never had a chance to spear fish down there before they changed the rules.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

fish should be protected during vulnerable times like spawning, so protecting those old fish like at fish lake was a good idea and they should also restrict rod and reel anglers during those times, Wish they'd do something at the gorge with the people who try and foul hook lakers but Other than that, I don't really see a problem with spear fisherman. I don't think it's as cool as fooling them with a lure and also having the enjoyment/option of catch and release. but to each their own.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I don't have a problem with spear fishing, with a few possible exceptions, but the main objections I hear are that "they preferentially harvest too many big fish", "Catch and release is not possible" and bassers especially hate spear fishing because their natural curiosity make them easy targets. I think most of these complaints are sour grapes. 

The two main areas where I might have concern are as follows;

1) Spawning and vulnerable fish like those Fish lake macks that were on spawning humps. 

2) Fisheries that have slot limits. How can a spearfisherman tell if a target is just below or just above the slot before he pulls the trigger? 

For general regulation fisheries, I have no problem with spearfishing, but it's JMO.


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## JoKeRs (Oct 1, 2014)

None of the lakes that allow spearfishing have slot limits. I spearfish regularly and most of the time come back with nothing, but it still gets me out. It is hard to do, but fun.


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## DeadI (Sep 12, 2007)

I spearfish as well as rod and reel. I can tell you what. Its pretty freaking hard to hit a moving fish, and like said already the visibility usually sucks so its pretty hard to see the fish. The lakes that we are allowed to spear in have season dates to protect spawning beds and those fish in there vulnerable times. There really are not that many people that enjoy the sport and those of us that do, do not harvest more than what is leagally allowed for any fisherman.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

JoKeRs said:


> None of the lakes that allow spearfishing have slot limits. I spearfish regularly and most of the time come back with nothing, but it still gets me out. It is hard to do, but fun.


Yeah, I think that is the case right now, (as it should be) but certain members of the bassin crowd are *still* bellyaching about when Jordanelle was opened up for spearfishing and all of the (supposed) harm spearfishing did there.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

90% of the fish that spearfishermen shoot in Utah are carp, so there should be no complaints there. Spearfishing is already heavily restricted here, there are only 15 waters in the state that are open for spearing game fish and 9 more that have season restrictions-I don't think there is reason to ban anything. I lived in New Zealand for 2 years and got really into ocean spearfishing and freediving there, I still have all of my gear but I haven't tried it out in Utah yet, but I am planning to this summer.

I have no scientific evidence to back this up but my gut feeling is that there are far more game fish that die in Utah every year from stress after being caught and released than there are fish that are taken by spearfishermen-there just aren't that many guys that do it.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't see the issue. +1 to most of what has already been said. Not a big deal.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Pumpgunner said:


> I have no scientific evidence to back this up but my gut feeling is that there are far more game fish that die in Utah every year from stress after being caught and released than there are fish that are taken by spearfishermen-there just aren't that many guys that do it.


Amen brother, Amen!


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

The ban spearfishing folks seem very vocal on the survey when no one is looking at who they are. But, they don't seem to come out in "public" to explain themselves.

We're also not talking about measures to protect spawning fish or what rules should and shouldn't be placed on spearfishing. I agree that most people are fine with spearfishing. 

I want to know the justification for an outright ban. Go on. Convince me.


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## SCtransplant (Jul 31, 2015)

Freshwater spearfishing? Sounds fun to me.......you guys that do it, pole spear, sling, or speargun?


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Dodger said:


> The ban spearfishing folks seem very vocal on the survey when no one is looking at who they are. But, they don't seem to come out in "public" to explain themselves.
> 
> We're also not talking about measures to protect spawning fish or what rules should and shouldn't be placed on spearfishing. I agree that most people are fine with spearfishing.
> 
> I want to know the justification for an outright ban. Go on. Convince me.


Well I think spearfisherman kill more fish from improper fish handling than regular rod and reel fisherman kill. I can't tell you how many times I see spear fisherman holding fish by the gills! Every time I see that, I know those fish probably won't make it. Why can't spearfisherman learn to hold the fish horizontally by placing one hand under the fish and the other on the spear? I don't get it?? Also what about spearfisherman who are also rod and reel fisherman as well? If they kill a fish with a rod and reel, I still count that as a spear fisherman kill. Can't have it both ways. ;-)


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

SCtransplant said:


> Freshwater spearfishing? Sounds fun to me.......you guys that do it, pole spear, sling, or speargun?


Don't get me wrong, spearfishing is incredibly difficult. There are very few people in this state who do it well. 2 years ago I shot a 23 pound carp and it was an underwater rodeo. I've never done anything like it. I use a speargun.

So, none of the people that are against spearfishing want to talk about this?

Since the only argument I've seen for banning spearfishing is that spearfishing is hunting, not fishing, I'll respond to that, as simply and slowly as I can:

Utah offers hunting licenses, doesn't it? So what's the problem? Unless you are categorically against hunting in any form, what difference does calling it hunting or fishing make to you?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm just not sure you'll find any opponents on this site Dodger. Sure, some of us, like me, may be elitist snobbery fly fisher types that will snub our noses at the likes of Catherder that like to fish with bait and bobbers but pretend they are fly-fishing, but the reality is that dudes in wetsuits chasing fish in lakes with pointy things doesn't really matter to the pristine, native, beautiful little trout that sip dry flies on majestic flowing waters where I like to fish. So I say, what is the big deal? Just don't put a bobber, I mean, strike indicator on that spear. That would just be bad form.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Never in my lifetime of fishing have I came across a spearfishing person. I dont see what the big deal is. If ya like it do it.


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## SCtransplant (Jul 31, 2015)

I've never spearfished with tank and gun, only free dove with a pole spear.

I can say, when you hit a grouper at 40' and don't stun him.......get ready.


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## scartinez (Apr 22, 2008)

I believe one of my favorite places to bass fish out by Wendover has been pretty beat up by the spear guys. This was the first time I didn't see one bass over 12 inches the whole time I was there and I've been a ton of times. There were some guys spear fishing and killing 4 inch bluegill and 6 inch bass. Freaking lame. How you going to eat that? I talked with some of the scuba divers to see if they had seen any larger bass and they all said no. Pretty easy to wipe out the adult population of largies when there on beds and you've got a spear. 
I'm definately against it on small bodies of water and while bass are spawning. Deer creek was awesome for largies a while back but each year is worse and worse. It could be the drought but the guys killing all the largemouth aren't helping. I see spear guys every time I'm out at the lake now. largies are shore oriented fish and the big ones make easier target for the spear guys. I just wish they would stop killing the largemouth. The largies in this state are slow growing fish and don't replace that fast.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

scartinez said:


> I believe one of my favorite places to bass fish out by Wendover has been pretty beat up by the spear guys. This was the first time I didn't see one bass over 12 inches the whole time I was there and I've been a ton of times. *There were some guys spear fishing and killing 4 inch bluegill and 6 inch bass.* Freaking lame. How you going to eat that? I talked with some of the scuba divers to see if they had seen any larger bass and they all said no. Pretty easy to wipe out the adult population of largies when there on beds and you've got a spear.
> I'm definately against it on small bodies of water and while bass are spawning. Deer creek was awesome for largies a while back but each year is worse and worse. It could be the drought but the guys killing all the largemouth aren't helping. I see spear guys every time I'm out at the lake now. largies are shore oriented fish and the big ones make easier target for the spear guys. I just wish they would stop killing the largemouth. The largies in this state are slow growing fish and don't replace that fast.


Sorry, but it is already illegal to do that out there. If you had bothered to check the Utah Fishing Guidebook, you would have known that those spearfishing criminals were in violation of the regulations for that body of water - mainly this: Blue Lake, Tooele County • No limit for pacu or tilapia. Anglers must not release any pacu or tilapia they catch. All pacu and tilapia must be immediately killed. • *Underwater spearfishing is allowed for pacu, tilapia and carp only.*

If you were/are that bothered by their criminal act, did you bother to point that out to them or take some pictures and report them? Illegal activities like that will continue as long as we choose to ignore them. And since the scuba folks use that lake a lot, I'm sure that the majority of them are well aware of the fishing restrictions out there and are willfully violating the law. Report the bastards.


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## scartinez (Apr 22, 2008)

I was unaware of the law. I C&R out there and use artificials. Thanks for the heads up.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

JoKeRs said:


> None of the lakes that allow spearfishing have slot limits. I spearfish regularly and most of the time come back with nothing, but it still gets me out. It is hard to do, but fun.


That is not necessarily true...doesn't Fish Lake have a slot on lake trout (only one over 24 inches or something)? And, isn't there statewide regulations or slots on tiger musky?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I believe a slot limit is specifically a limitation on a certain range of sizes, eg 16-21". A size allotment of one fish over 24" is a but different than a slot as I understand it


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

If there was to be more restrictions on spearfishing, I actually wouldn't mind seeing spearing while using scuba gear being made illegal-that's too much of an advantage in my opinion! A lot of areas that have open-water or salt water spearfishing have a breath-hold only restriction, which is a lot more sporting in my opinion and takes a lot more skill. A lot of dedicated spearfishermen can make dives of a minute or two or even longer, personally I think that breath training is a fundamental of the sport.


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## JoKeRs (Oct 1, 2014)

Its not a slot limit. Its a size limit.The muskie does to be over 40", but they are too bony. As for the lake trout you can still get ones under 24", but only one over 24". The season that they put on Fish Lake for spearfishing is good.
As for breath holding that's what I do. SCUBA scares the fish away. The main reasons that I would keep it around is because it's safer, due to not having to worry about shallow water blackout and for the young and elderly who want to participate.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

So I think there are a couple issues here.

First, those that want to ban spearfishing don't really want to ban spearfishing. They just want to see more regulations to protect certain fish. I would agree with some restrictions - I think protecting bass on nests is legitimate. I think protecting spawning lake trout is legitimate. 

Second, I think there is a lot of misinformation about spearfishing. There are too many guys who think it is like walking into your backyard and shooting a deer. There are guys who are misinformed about the use of SCUBA while spearfishing. There are guys who think spearfishing is too easy. People in this group want to have a say on regulations I brought up in my first point without really understanding spearfishing. Honestly, it's just like Mormons writing liquor laws, many congresspeople writing gun laws, and other examples of people with no experience trying to regulate something they don't really understand.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Dodger said:


> So I think there are a couple issues here.
> 
> First, those that want to ban spearfishing don't really want to ban spearfishing. They just want to see more regulations to protect certain fish. I would agree with some restrictions - I think protecting bass on nests is legitimate. I think protecting spawning lake trout is legitimate.
> 
> Second, I think there is a lot of misinformation about spearfishing. There are too many guys who think it is like walking into your backyard and shooting a deer. There are guys who are misinformed about the use of SCUBA while spearfishing. There are guys who think spearfishing is too easy. People in this group want to have a say on regulations I brought up in my first point without really understanding spearfishing. * Honestly, it's just like Mormons writing liquor laws, many congresspeople writing gun laws, and other examples of people with no experience trying to regulate something they don't really understand.*



Too true for words. unfortunately there are always some who think they know best for everyone else.


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## JoKeRs (Oct 1, 2014)

I like how you said that.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I still fail to see the big problem here. If there were 20,000 spearfishing people in Utah maybe ,but=== Maybe I'm undereducated on the subject?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

JoKeRs said:


> Its not a slot limit. Its a size limit.The muskie does to be over 40", but they are too bony. As for the lake trout you can still get ones under 24", but only one over 24". The season that they put on Fish Lake for spearfishing is good.
> As for breath holding that's what I do. SCUBA scares the fish away. The main reasons that I would keep it around is because it's safer, due to not having to worry about shallow water blackout and for the young and elderly who want to participate.


A slot or a size limit it still raises the same question: how do spearfishermen measure their shots or catches? I remember a guy at Fish Lake who nailed a pretty nice musky...the fish was barely over 40 inches. I just wondered how he knew it was big enough in the water.

FWIW, I really don't care if they can or can't spearfish. I don't think they impact a fishery really at all.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

As far as the size limit goes, the burden of staying legal is on the fisherman-when you're underwater, everything looks bigger and you have to learn to adjust your size estimates. When I was doing saltwater one of the most common fish that we shot had a 40cm minimum size restriction-I had to teach myself what 40cm looked like underwater and act accordingly. Basically a fish would have to be clearly big enough for me to feel comfortable shooting it.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

middlefork said:


> [/B]
> Too true for words. unfortunately there are always some who think they know best for everyone else.


To be fair, there are things that need to be regulated. Fishing, hunting, liquor, guns, etc. The only disagreements we have is on how those things should be regulated.

I'm a Mormon. I don't drink. I don't want people driving drunk. But watering down seems like it is discouraging drinking rather than preventing from people from driving drunk. Just like proposed gun laws are discouraging gun ownership rather than preventing crazy people from shooting people en masse. People who are against a thing on principle forget that 1) other people are free to make their own choices and 2) that regulations shouldn't discourage the entire activity to reduce participation in that activity.

If you want to ban spearfishing, talk to the spearfishermen about your concerns and let them help address the problem. Don't just take it away because it's a sport without a lot of participants.


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