# ruined hunt help



## WasatchOutdoors

So, after a lot of work to try and help my 14 year old daughter fill her archery tag on an elk, we had our hunt completely ruined for the second year in a row by the same two yahoo's. First off, we are up a trail that is off limits to off road vehicles. This is the second year in a row these guys have been caught on my trail camera on their dirt bikes at the top of the trail. And while that is completely illegal and thoroughly irritating, they went too far this year.

So after we set up our treestand several weeks ago, these two guys set up a trail camera right on top of our site. That's fine, its public land, and they have every right to. 

But on opening morning, they decided to come check their trail camera at 9:30 am. They were kind enough to ask if they could sneak in for "2 minutes" to check their camera. I was irritated but I urged them to hurry and go ahead. SO they walked over to the tree their camera was on, proceeded to unlock the security box it was mounted in, and then pull out a socket wrench. They unbolted it from the tree, with the socket wrench loudly announcing every time they pulled it back for another turn. Then they proceeded to turn around and ratchet a new camera into a new spot on the tree. Meantime the "gentleman" with the pseudo mullet proceeded to light a cigarette. At this point I spoke out and told them they have got to be kidding me. I asked them if they were bow hunters and understood how the noise and smell they were polluting the area with were wrecking our morning. The guy tells me that they are hunting the rifle season, and that I obviously didn't know which way the wind was blowing. Oh, I did, right to the spot the elk come in from when they are pressured. 

I told them that we were being more than polite, that their hunt wasn't for nearly 2 months, and that they knew full well it was opening morning and that they needed to leave. 

At this point the dark haired guy lifted the edge of his t-shirt to show the handle of his handgun in the holster and patted the grip then left his hand on it for the remainder of their "visit". I'm pretty sure that is an open threat in front of a minor. 

Anyway, if anyone knows their name and feels like doing the right thing, I would love to have a name to go along with the face. If they're buddies of yours feel free to let them know that their pictures from riding off road illegally for the last 2 years are being turned into the authorities along with testimony regarding the damage they did to the "no off road travel" sign they ran over with their bikes last year. 

I'm pretty sure they live in Nephi if it helps you either warn them or help turn them in.


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## Fowlmouth

I see you gave them names. :grin:


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## utahgolf

I woulda turned in the evidence a year ago and you might have avoided this years fiasco as well. Sucks your hunt was ruined and you have to deal with jackwagons like this but report them as soon as ya see them! and also as non confrontational as possible but make it known to them that they are in the wrong and could face a fine etc.. That could also scare them and make them avoid "your" hunting area all together.


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## WasatchOutdoors

you're absolutely right that I should have turned them in a year ago... live and learn.


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## brookieguy1

I would have loved to stomp the spokes right out of their wheels. I understand your retaliation was limited, due to your daughter's presence. 
These clowns need a serious plumbin' up! Nephi. Go figure. I'm sure they felt they were "in the right".


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## jayo

Take some spray paint next time you're in the area. paint the lens on their camera, or put a bullet in it.


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## swbuckmaster

I hope some one comes forward with names these stupid effers need to be taught a lesson!

Come on guys someone knows these jack waggons!


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## KineKilla

Limited by the presence of your child is right.

Brandishing a firearm is a criminal offense. I always carry my XDm .40 just in case though. I definitely would never condone a gunfight with anyone but I'm also never going to be the one that brought a knife to a gunfight.

I'll share your pics...lets stick em on the good 'ol Facebook.


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## Springville Shooter

Sucky deal. What a man, threatening a guy bow hunting with his kid with a gun. I agree with your given name as well. I know it's not what you want to hear, but perhaps your first encounter and the placement of their camera should have been red flag for you to concentrate elsewhere. In my experience, d-bags are best avoided if possible. Not worth the stress and certainly not worth a possible confrontation IMHO.------SS


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## jayo

I have a friend in Nephi, he's a sherriffs deputy, I'll ask if he knows them.


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## Fowlmouth

Those XR650's look like they are street legal with the turn signals and lights. Looks like there are license plates on those bikes. If you have photos of the plates that should be all you need to turn them in to authorities.


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## outdoorser

I hope somebody knows these SOB's and does the right thing. What a deal.


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## TEX-O-BOB

I just don't have the words...


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## roblew91

Man that's crazy what kind of low life would even suggest he would pull a gun over something like that! Especially in front if a little girl... Lets pray they don't reproduce, I have friends in the nephi area and will forward the pics and see if they might know who these scum bags are


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## Nambaster

I posted images of them on my fb... but I wrote something a little different...

"Anyone know either of these individuals? They are heroes and need to be properly thanked for their services...The event occurred near Nephi Utah so if there are any Juab county guys like Mike Price that would be willing to spread the word I would really love to figure out who they are for a specific individual to properly thank them for their services."

See if anyone bites.....


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## brookieguy1

Smart move!


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## jayo

I did the same, only different.

"do you know these guys? One of them dropped something here, the trail cam got pics of them. I'm sure they would like to get it back."


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## deljoshua

Obviously wise not to get into an altercation with your daughter there. Brandishing a handgun like that is extremely stupid and dangerous. People that do things like this end up in jail or dead sooner or later. Hopefully somebody can identify them and they get what's coming.


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## Springville Shooter

Maybe this is worth a warden making a visit on the rifle opener with ticket book in hand.---SS


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## CP1

:sad:


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## Longgun

What Fowlmouth said... get the plate #'s and report em. But be prepared for retaliation's from them and their yocal bud's. Have a video camera, voice recorder and or a witness handy at ALL times, and additionally, station a trailcam to watch your vehicle while you are away.

Given brandishing is a show of force... If your brandishing claims are true, and you can proove them unwarranted, report them to the FBI. One doesnt prance around and play pattycake with unstable pinnacles of society such as this.... HAMMER em!

In the below link, you'll see the state code that i could dig up so far, i have a buddy digging a little deeper for you.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_02_040200.htm

UDPS site:

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FirearmLaws.html


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## Truelife

Wow, that is pretty poor sportsmanship!:-x

I know a few people in the Nephi area as well. I'll see if anybody knows who they are.

Also, I don't know if this applies in the area you are in or not, but for some reason I don't understand motorcycles ARE allowed in a whole lot of areas that other off road vehichles are not. Notice on the trial markers that a lot of times there will be a picture of a hiker, a horse, and a motorcycle.

Forest service logic I guess.


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## JDub17

That was pretty bad of them to do that on opening morning. They must be after something special in the area and trying to ward you off. If you are going to check your camera, at least do it in the middle of the day! They couldn't just change out the chip??? :-x


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## BPturkeys

I would place a camera at a different position along the trail and try and capture their license plate number. But in the meantime, by all means, report this info to the police/forest service/DWR and get a record started. Be prepared to testify...have your dates, times etc recorded(record of note)..."I think it was" does not cut it in court... so there will be no question. Also, have a GPS coordinate of your trail camera's postion.


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## Trooper

Go to the cops, not because of any of the hunting stuf (that just sucks) but for brandishing the weapon. That's rediculous, especially since you can't do anything with your daughter there. If the cops can be bothered, they'll put some heat on the other guy and he'll roll on his buddy. It'll plea down to nothing... but just making him sweat it out might be worth something. Plus, it'll break up their little partnership when mullet learns how easy his buddy rolled on him.


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## gwailow

You can message me if you like, but I'm pretty positive I know where you were at. If so, these guys pulled similar stunts last year. I can probably point you to their camp...why, because they leave it there for a month or more. I have one good friend who got in a similar altercation, and I'm betting it was the exact same two guys.

Lastly, these feminine hygiene products are not from Nephi. Not real cool that some of you guys are ragging on Nephi folks, sounds like some of you have a personal grudge with someone...if these guys are who I think they are, then they are from Northern Utah. I'll buzz up there this weekend and see if they have moved their camp in already. They are real choice pieces of work if so. 

PM where you were at, and I'll bet for certain it's the same dudes. Also, just an FYI there is an area that is legal for motorcycles where you are at. However, they are required to stay on the trail.


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## Elkster

They are not from Nephi OR Juab County for that matter. As said above they are from Northern Utah. And they are on the radar. They've gotten "paper work" in the past. But it looks like they're back to their same tricks. They'll be getting a visit.


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## Truelife

I was just going to post some information that I'd found about these two warts on our hunting reputation.

However it looks like the proper authority has already responded with the same information I was given.

Thanks Elk, next time you visit them let them know they are lucky it's a visit from the law and let them know how most of us feel about them.


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## stablebuck

high class...I would have been awfully tempted to fill my whitetrash tag that day...the joys of public land hunting. I think I'd set up a canyon or two over next year if I were you and walk away from that. Or you can mark your calendar for the rifle opener and take the dog for a walk with your video camera at about 9:30 am


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## ram2h2o

100% a threat! Get them arrested ASAP! I'm sure if you turn the pictures over to LE they can ID and make sure they don't get to hunt for rifle season and maybe even more! These two A-holes need to be taken off the mountain.


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## Mr Muleskinner

ridiculous


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## svmoose

Have these 2 been identified yet?


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## Longgun

confirmed: with priors, they will be ran through the grinder for the brandishing w/a minor present. Course, that would depend on the prosecution/deal but... again, with priors, weapons related or not, it needs to be pursued. Minor/s present or not, that sort of "_oh yeah_, weeeeell looky's here at what i got's", should not be tolerated in the least.


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## martymcfly73

Make sure to post up mugshots of the peckerwoods.


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## Mr Muleskinner

and all of this over what? A couple of idiots that lay claim to a spot that might harvest an animal.


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## Longgun

some DB laying "claim" happens all the time. It takes a real fine piece of work to brandish a bleeping weapon over it. They knew what they were doing -"protecting something special" or not- they were whizzing allover the hunt on the premise that the spot was "theirs" and **** the one hunting the area at the time. 

With the young lady involved, Im really curious as to how the prosecution handles this...


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## hazmat

what a crap story hopefully your daughter fills her tag. and these most likely pot growing tweekers get caught and punished extremely hard


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## ultramagfan2000

Dang wish I knew where to hassle these asprin hats. Sounds fun to give them the same treatment. I txted the pics to my friends in Sanpete and Juab counties told them what happened. They didn't recognize them but will be watching for them and will harass the heck out of them and get plate numbers.


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## polarbear

Is that a Nautica shirt he's wearing? I haven't seen anyone wear Nautica since 1992... about the same time the rat tail mullet went out of style. This guy obviously has his decades mixed up. Maybe he got confused on the archery hunt dates as well. I bet if you sat down and talked to him you'd find out he's really a nice guy. He'd probably tell you all about how if coach would have put him in the game his team would have took state. I bet he can throw a football a quarter mile.


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## utskidad

1. Write down everything you've witnessed with dates and times in chronological fashion.

2. Print the pics to hardcopy and burn digital copies to CD or thumbdrive.

3. Get your butt over to the county sheriff and file a written complaint TODAY. Provide the material above. Any person who displays a weapon "in an angry or threatening manner" is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Utah Code 76-10-506. 

4. If he doesn't have a concealed permit, appearing in public with the weapon concealed is a Class B misdemeanor. Utah Code 76-10-504.

5. If he does have a concealed permit, while this alone may not be sufficient, taken with other information of record, he may get his concealed carry revoked. Utah Code 53-5-704.

6. D-bags like this are rarely unknown to law enforcement. With photos, identification by law enforcement is a near certainty. 

7. Safe communities don't just happen. Help rid our sport of the anti-social and unlawful miscreants that makes hunting on public land feel like a night in a holding cell on some days. We owe it to our kids. 

8. The most important reason to report it NOW? You had an altercation with an individual involving a deadly weapon. All self-defense trainers will tell you, the first to make contact with law enforcement is universally perceived as the law abiding party. Cover your butt and get in there tonight.


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## Guest

*Not from Nephi*

They are for sure not from Nephi. My dad has the stand above yours and he spoke with you last year. We have been trying to get signs form the forest service to replace the ones these guys tore down. We also have a plate number from their truck and know they are from north of Nephi a ways. This is a bad deal what they did to you and your kid, and we are working on getting something done about this.


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## nwsteelheader

they are everywhere........

glad you got pics and turned em in.
nwsteelheader


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## ddhunter

Unfortunately there is no evidence of anything except the dirt bikes being off trail. If you want any real punishment there will have to be a better documented incident. I would report them to the LE so they watch that area and wash my hands of it. Utah is a pretty big state. If you and your daughter need any help getting on some elk pm me and I can give you a few spots that have produced in the past.


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## Berretta40

*The facts*



WasatchOutdoors said:


> So, after a lot of work to try and help my 14 year old daughter fill her archery tag on an elk, we had our hunt completely ruined for the second year in a row by the same two yahoo's. First off, we are up a trail that is off limits to off road vehicles. This is the second year in a row these guys have been caught on my trail camera on their dirt bikes at the top of the trail. And while that is completely illegal and thoroughly irritating, they went too far this year.
> 
> So after we set up our treestand several weeks ago, these two guys set up a trail camera right on top of our site. That's fine, its public land, and they have every right to.
> 
> But on opening morning, they decided to come check their trail camera at 9:30 am. They were kind enough to ask if they could sneak in for "2 minutes" to check their camera. I was irritated but I urged them to hurry and go ahead. SO they walked over to the tree their camera was on, proceeded to unlock the security box it was mounted in, and then pull out a socket wrench. They unbolted it from the tree, with the socket wrench loudly announcing every time they pulled it back for another turn. Then they proceeded to turn around and ratchet a new camera into a new spot on the tree. Meantime the "gentleman" with the pseudo mullet proceeded to light a cigarette. At this point I spoke out and told them they have got to be kidding me. I asked them if they were bow hunters and understood how the noise and smell they were polluting the area with were wrecking our morning. The guy tells me that they are hunting the rifle season, and that I obviously didn't know which way the wind was blowing. Oh, I did, right to the spot the elk come in from when they are pressured.
> 
> I told them that we were being more than polite, that their hunt wasn't for nearly 2 months, and that they knew full well it was opening morning and that they needed to leave.
> 
> At this point the dark haired guy lifted the edge of his t-shirt to show the handle of his handgun in the holster and patted the grip then left his hand on it for the remainder of their "visit". I'm pretty sure that is an open threat in front of a minor.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone knows their name and feels like doing the right thing, I would love to have a name to go along with the face. If they're buddies of yours feel free to let them know that their pictures from riding off road illegally for the last 2 years are being turned into the authorities along with testimony regarding the damage they did to the "no off road travel" sign they ran over with their bikes last year.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they live in Nephi if it helps you either warn them or help turn them in.


It's time for you to read the facts.


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## Quiethunter

Well, you said yourselves you had already spooked the herd not 20 minutes before they got there. Second you talking to them from your treestand in normal voice wouldn't get the elk to come back and third, it wasn't till 2 pm in the afternoon! Although they would never want to blow your opening day of the hunt! This water hole is well known to all and is way over hunted and has been for as long as its been there! I do agree the one who smoked shouldn't have and that was probably not called for, but I'm guessing he has never bow hunted. You sir, if you are angry and want sympathy at least do not exaggerate the facts. Was not a ratchet it was a driver, no noise! And the gun thing is so untruthful it's not even funny. I do know they said and still do say good luck and wish you and your daughter get one! I personally know how hard the bow hunt is without the other stuff there so I would recommend finding a waterhole that isn't right off the road! Good luck and be safe I hope your daughter loves hunting as much as the rest of us!


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## Springville Shooter

Hmmmmm. It was a driver.....interesting first post quiet hunter.------SS


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## outdoorser

Yeah and your name sure is respectable. Why didn't you call yourself "Ethical Joe" or "never-doing-wrong guy":lol::sorry:


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## Berretta40

*Here's the truth..*



WasatchOutdoors said:


> So, after a lot of work to try and help my 14 year old daughter fill her archery tag on an elk, we had our hunt completely ruined for the second year in a row by the same two yahoo's. First off, we are up a trail that is off limits to off road vehicles. This is the second year in a row these guys have been caught on my trail camera on their dirt bikes at the top of the trail. And while that is completely illegal and thoroughly irritating, they went too far this year.
> 
> So after we set up our treestand several weeks ago, these two guys set up a trail camera right on top of our site. That's fine, its public land, and they have every right to.
> 
> But on opening morning, they decided to come check their trail camera at 9:30 am. They were kind enough to ask if they could sneak in for "2 minutes" to check their camera. I was irritated but I urged them to hurry and go ahead. SO they walked over to the tree their camera was on, proceeded to unlock the security box it was mounted in, and then pull out a socket wrench. They unbolted it from the tree, with the socket wrench loudly announcing every time they pulled it back for another turn. Then they proceeded to turn around and ratchet a new camera into a new spot on the tree. Meantime the "gentleman" with the pseudo mullet proceeded to light a cigarette. At this point I spoke out and told them they have got to be kidding me. I asked them if they were bow hunters and understood how the noise and smell they were polluting the area with were wrecking our morning. The guy tells me that they are hunting the rifle season, and that I obviously didn't know which way the wind was blowing. Oh, I did, right to the spot the elk come in from when they are pressured.
> 
> I told them that we were being more than polite, that their hunt wasn't for nearly 2 months, and that they knew full well it was opening morning and that they needed to leave.
> 
> At this point the dark haired guy lifted the edge of his t-shirt to show the handle of his handgun in the holster and patted the grip then left his hand on it for the remainder of their "visit". I'm pretty sure that is an open threat in front of a minor.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone knows their name and feels like doing the right thing, I would love to have a name to go along with the face. If they're buddies of yours feel free to let them know that their pictures from riding off road illegally for the last 2 years are being turned into the authorities along with testimony regarding the damage they did to the "no off road travel" sign they ran over with their bikes last year.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they live in Nephi if it helps you either warn them or help turn them in.


First off, we were not there at 9:30 am. It was more like mid afternoon.

We needed to replace the existing camera with a different one, so we needed a different lock box. Due to the fact, our camera was no longer working. We appreciated the fact that you allowed us to come in for a bit; that was nice of you. I don't know where you got the " 2 " minutes, but nevertheless we did get your permission; quietly, without talking. 
The socket wrench was NOT loudly announcing every time pulled back for another turn. We tightened the lag bolt without backing it off. One time it did fall, trying to do so, but nevertheless we were doing our best to keep quiet.

I guess i'm the guy with the " psuedo mullet " lmao.... I apologize for lighting a cigarette. I could have waited.
FYI however, this was AFTER you told us that you busted the heard just a few minutes earlier while moving to your stand. Correct?
Where i was at, the wind was blowing down the canyon; but whatever. I still shouldn't have lit up.

Handgun....... are you serious? I lifted my shirt to reveal to you my handgun, and left my hand on it the rest of my stay? You've got to be kidding me!! You know that is not the truth. 
I'm a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit, who fully understands the gun laws.

In the future, when we see your CUV parked below; we will stay away from ' your spot '. Fair?

But we'd appreciate it if you'd get your story straight.


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## Berretta40

jayo said:


> I have a friend in Nephi, he's a sherriffs deputy, I'll ask if he knows them.


I beleive we talked with him last night.

The one in the Duramax with the toolbox in the back, and sheriff stickers in the window?


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## Berretta40

JDub17 said:


> That was pretty bad of them to do that on opening morning. They must be after something special in the area and trying to ward you off. If you are going to check your camera, at least do it in the middle of the day! They couldn't just change out the chip??? :-x


I agree. It was bad timing; and appologies to the OP.

No; we just like to do our homework a few weeks in advance of the hunt. If you read my response to the OP; it was in the middle of the day.


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## Springville Shooter

outdoorser said:


> Yeah and your name sure is respectable. Why didn't you call yourself "Ethical Joe" or "never-doing-wrong guy":lol::sorry:


Ya, I can't wait to hear smoking motorcycle guy and gun brandishing ratchet man tell their side of the story. Until then, quiet hunter will be their advocate.---SS


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## Mr Muleskinner

maybe they will be "dumb and dumber". I assume they do everything best as a tag team.


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## Berretta40

Longgun said:


> confirmed: with priors, they will be ran through the grinder for the brandishing w/a minor present. Course, that would depend on the prosecution/deal but... again, with priors, weapons related or not, it needs to be pursued. Minor/s present or not, that sort of "_oh yeah_, weeeeell looky's here at what i got's", should not be tolerated in the least.


Confirmed? With priors? Really?

This is news to me.

FYI, the gun was not brandished in any way whatsoever.


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## Berretta40

No need to be hashing back on forth on this; the facts have been stated in my reply to the OP. My appologies as well.

It's too bad the OP didn't tell the whole truth.


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## Nambaster

Oh this is awesome!!! I want to hear more from Quiethunter... I promise I won't throw anymore stones.


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## solocam

Man what a bad deal. The real person to suffer from this is your kid. 

You are doing your part to introduce her to the outdoors and a potential passion of hers. And these two dipsticks ruin her experience. 

Just assure her that these two yahoos are the exception and not the norm. 98% of her fellow hunters are not like this. 

Good luck to you and your daughter.


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## twinkielk15

"Never-doing-wrong guy".... I can't stop laughing. 

Never ceases to amaze me the quality of "outdoorsmen" out there. Is it just me or are there the two extremes and very few people in between? Seems like 95% of the folks out there are the most upstanding folks you could ever hope to meet. Everyone is happy to help everyone else. The other 5% are the scum of the earth.


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## Quiethunter

Two more things I failed to mention, first I wasn't one of those guys up there that day and second, the guys did not I repeat did not ride the bikes up there since the day the hunt started. The pics where from the week before the hunt! So all in all the only wrong they truly did was light that smoke. We all have other hunters coming into our sets! It's public land. I only wish they wouldn't have lit that cigarette. Again they do feel bad about all the crap it caused


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## mikevanwilder

Quiethunter said:


> Two more things I failed to mention, first I wasn't one of those guys up there that day and second, the guys did not I repeat did not ride the bikes up there since the day the hunt started. The pics where from the week before the hunt! So all in all the only wrong they truly did was light that smoke. We all have other hunters coming into our sets! It's public land. I only wish they wouldn't have lit that cigarette. Again they do feel bad about all the crap it caused


 I don't think it matters when they rode their bikes up there. From what I gather is its a closed trail so even if it was before the hunt they still broke the law.


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## martymcfly73

Quiethunter said:


> Two more things I failed to mention, first I wasn't one of those guys up there that day and second, the guys did not I repeat did not ride the bikes up there since the day the hunt started. The pics where from the week before the hunt! So all in all the only wrong they truly did was light that smoke. We all have other hunters coming into our sets! It's public land. I only wish they wouldn't have lit that cigarette. Again they do feel bad about all the crap it caused


Of course you weren't one of them. It was a "friend" I'm sure. I'm sure you're typing this response for a friend. Well tell your buddies they are vaginas for threatening someone in front of a kid. Takes a real man to do something like that. You guys are the slob hunters everyone speaks of.


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## Quiethunter

Honestly they did threaten anyone! And as far as legal or illegal, it's not nor has it ever been posted to be illegal! I would so agree that if they threatened anyone kid or no kids that would not be tolerated by any way shape or form! But he had just hiked for quit a bit and knowing this person I know he puts his hands on his waist while catching his breath so I know that is all it was, but flip that and if I didn't know him and seen the gun I might have been a little uneasy myself. So if the guy is reading these reviews I can assure you there was no threat! I myself am always uneasy around pistols, regardless if I know the guy or not! All I really can say is they went up in the middle of the day and hiked to not interfere with any hunters, and the gun was only with him due to the cougar activities in that canyon! Again the smoking thing was to far and I have already informed him about the bow hunt since I myself have been a bow hunter for many years! Please do not blow this out of per portion they did not mean any ill will to anyone! I know they wish them all the success on this years hunt and can have his daughter grasp what nature is all about!


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## Nambaster

Quiethunter said:


> Two more things I failed to mention, first I wasn't one of those guys up there that day and second, the guys did not I repeat did not ride the bikes up there since the day the hunt started. The pics where from the week before the hunt! So all in all the only wrong they truly did was light that smoke. We all have other hunters coming into our sets! It's public land. I only wish they wouldn't have lit that cigarette. Again they do feel bad about all the crap it caused


Post a video of them apologizing to the 9 year old and I will buy them a box of rounds since they are preparing for the rifle hunt and all. Once the video is posted then send me a receipt and I will reimburse them. Just one more request...Wear that Nautica Shirt in the apology video.... 8)


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## Berretta40

See page 5 for reply to OP's original post. Finally got the account activated.


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## solocam

Quiethunter said:


> Honestly they did threaten anyone! And as far as legal or illegal, it's not nor has it ever been posted to be illegal! I would so agree that if they threatened anyone kid or no kids that would not be tolerated by any way shape or form! But he had just hiked for quit a bit and knowing this person I know he puts his hands on his waist while catching his breath so I know that is all it was, but flip that and if I didn't know him and seen the gun I might have been a little uneasy myself. So if the guy is reading these reviews I can assure you there was no threat! I myself am always uneasy around pistols, regardless if I know the guy or not! All I really can say is they went up in the middle of the day and hiked to not interfere with any hunters, and the gun was only with him due to the cougar activities in that canyon! Again the smoking thing was to far and I have already informed him about the bow hunt since I myself have been a bow hunter for many years! Please do not blow this out of per portion they did not mean any ill will to anyone! I know they wish them all the success on this years hunt and can have his daughter grasp what nature is all about!


If you weren't there how do you know so much?

Who cares what time is was, it was legal hunting hours for bowhunting.

Do you or your friends know that elk often go to a water source in the middle of the day when its hot?

Why not move/check cams at dark?

Why would the OP place his cam in a location to capture pics of motorcycles and not in and around the water hole?

The cigarette is the lesser issue, why do you keep apologizing for that?

Brandishing a firearm is a pretty serious allegation.... Why would the OP say that happened if it didn't?

I hope a game warden is notified and investigates.


----------



## Berretta40

He's part of our hunting party of 8.


----------



## Berretta40

solocam said:


> If you weren't there how do you know so much?
> 
> Who cares what time is was, it was legal hunting hours for bowhunting.
> 
> ***Agreed. appologies extended to the OP. He's got what...6 weeks to harvest an animal. He'll get one.
> 
> Do you or your friends know that elk often go to a water source in the middle of the day when its hot?
> 
> Why not move/check cams at dark?
> 
> This is the plan.
> 
> Why would the OP place his cam in a location to capture pics of motorcycles and not in and around the water hole?
> 
> The cigarette is the lesser issue, why do you keep apologizing for that?
> 
> **because this is why he got so pissed off.
> 
> Brandishing a firearm is a pretty serious allegation.... Why would the OP say that happened if it didn't?
> 
> **It's all about posting this big, bad horrible story of someone screwing up his daughter's first hunt. The OP knows the true story here, so it doesn't really matter. On top of that, there were 3 of us there that day. So....it's his word against ours.
> 
> I hope a game warden is notified and investigates.


I'd be glad to talk with him. Already talked with the sheriff up there, and he has no problem with us being up there. He says we do a lot of trail cleaning, and trimming which makes his life a lot easier.


----------



## Berretta40

Mr Muleskinner said:


> maybe they will be "dumb and dumber". I assume they do everything best as a tag team.


Ok. Whatever you wanna call us i guess.

Question; are you the mule guy that used to guide hunters up there? If you are, we know you really well.


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## Nambaster

Berretta40, 
Welcome to the forum. Good on you to be concerned enough to have the desire to clear up your name. Seriously though...A video apology in the Nautica shirt and sunglasses to the 9 year old for interrupting her hunt gets you $50.00 

You don't have to admit to brandishing or even smoking... I will give you an extra $25.00 if I can type the dialog!!!! 8):mrgreen::-o


----------



## solocam

Berretta40 said:


> I'd be glad to talk with him. Already talked with the sheriff up there, and he has no problem with us being up there. He says we do a lot of trail cleaning, and trimming which makes his life a lot easier.


I don't have a dog in this fight. But I do give you props for coming on here and telling your side. I hope this gets settled on a mutual agreement or at least "agree to disagree" .

Good luck to all involved.


----------



## Berretta40

Nambaster said:


> Berretta40,
> Welcome to the forum. Good on you to be concerned enough to have the desire to clear up your name. Seriously though...A video apology in the Nautica shirt and sunglasses to the 9 year old for interrupting her hunt gets you $50.00
> 
> You don't have to admit to brandishing or even smoking... I will give you an extra $25.00 if I can type the dialog!!!! 8):mrgreen::-o


No thanks on the money. I just want to put this thing to bed. We all enjoy being in the hills with our kids, and i don't want any hard feelings.


----------



## Nambaster

Berretta40 said:


> No thanks on the money. I just want to put this thing to bed. We all enjoy being in the hills with our kids, and i don't want any hard feelings.


Good on ya... I say it speaks measures that you came on here to clean your name. Hopefully you'll stick around and contribute. As long as there wasn't a gun involved I would say all can be forgiven. Hopefully WasatchOutdoors can let things go as well. Good luck to both parties.

Try not to waste too much time on Monstermuleys.... Wildlife.net is where it is at!!!


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## Berretta40

Nambaster said:


> Good on ya... I say it speaks measures that you came on here to clean your name. Hopefully you'll stick around and contribute. As long as there wasn't a gun involved I would say all can be forgiven. Hopefully WasatchOutdoors can let things go as well. Good luck to both parties.
> 
> Try not to waste too much time on Monstermuleys.... Wildlife.net is where it is at!!!


Seems like you're one of the descent guys on this forum. Even though you made fun of my shirt and mullet. lol


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## jayo

My deputy friend doesn't know you, but he'll be watching for ya. Being the upstanding citizen you are, you'll have nothing to worry about though.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Berretta40 said:


> Ok. Whatever you wanna call us i guess.
> 
> Question; are you the mule guy that used to guide hunters up there? If you are, we know you really well.


Nope not me. I have never guided and typically only hunt with my brother and/or son.


----------



## klbzdad

Berretta40 said:


> First off, we were not there at 9:30 am. It was more like mid afternoon.
> 
> We needed to replace the existing camera with a different one, so we needed a different lock box. Due to the fact, our camera was no longer working. We appreciated the fact that you allowed us to come in for a bit; that was nice of you. I don't know where you got the " 2 " minutes, but nevertheless we did get your permission; quietly, without talking.
> The socket wrench was NOT loudly announcing every time pulled back for another turn. We tightened the lag bolt without backing it off. One time it did fall, trying to do so, but nevertheless we were doing our best to keep quiet.
> 
> I guess i'm the guy with the " psuedo mullet " lmao.... I apologize for lighting a cigarette. I could have waited.
> FYI however, this was AFTER you told us that you busted the heard just a few minutes earlier while moving to your stand. Correct?
> Where i was at, the wind was blowing down the canyon; but whatever. I still shouldn't have lit up.
> 
> Handgun....... are you serious? I lifted my shirt to reveal to you my handgun, and left my hand on it the rest of my stay? You've got to be kidding me!! You know that is not the truth.
> I'm a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit, who fully understands the gun laws.
> 
> In the future, when we see your CUV parked below; we will stay away from ' your spot '. Fair?
> 
> But we'd appreciate it if you'd get your story straight.


Why in the sam h e l l were you even going in there on opening morning of the archery hunt in the first place?!?!?! Seems to me that if you were worth your salt, you would have replaced that camera long before the season started so that you weren't interrupting other public land hunters. Maybe it was the sound of your mullet, I mean, mufflers that send the herd running. Then you admit to carrying a handgun but you surely didn't brandish it? You lit a cig, right in front of two bowhunters where you obviously know animals come through and you just dismiss that? Yeah, you're making the case that you are female hygiene products. Be glad you don't pull this crap where me, my friends and family, and some of the other hunters I know spend their opening weekend.


----------



## wyogoob

What a great post!!

I think you two fellas oughtta get your pistols, jump on your dirt bikes, and go to the range together. 

Uh....then have a smoke on the way to the barber shop. 

.


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## Quiethunter

Klbzdad, the bikes were not even started that day, they drove there truck up and again like I said they walked in. Ya I agree it was bad timing! But if anyone still thinks that a fire arm was used in a threatening manner ever, you are VERY VERY misguided. I guess if a guy has a weapon you'd be the type to say he was brandishing it just because you seen the butt of it because the shirt lifted up! I guess people that want to throw mud on this forum that wasn't there or even know those who where there, just may want to look at it in a more open way! But bikes are allowed on trails up there, and that particular one isn't marked. So they walked in out of respect for whom ever might be hunting that part!


----------



## Quiethunter

I know the (2) really well, and they will if they see this hunter again will apologize without a gun. They truly didn't mean any harm. So if the gentleman is reading all the post they have changed the times of checking the camera, they don't check til after dark. That situation was a eye opener for them! I know they have just always rifle hunted and never thought about all the little things that a bow hunter has to do just right to have success. So if by chance they do see this gentleman they will not interfere with his hunt again and will apologize for that afternoon! If anything comes of all this is they now have a understanding of what all has to go right with a bow, so this situation never happens again.


----------



## utahgolf

common sense isn't so common..... I wish people had common sense hunting etiquette and courtesy because those are their values but some don't. But I'm totally ok with people developing hunting etiquette and courtesy out of fear of being caught doing stupid stuff.  I guess this is one area where I'm glad there was a trailcam!


----------



## ridgetop

Heck. 
I'm just really impressed that the mods. did not delete the pictures in the first hour, like they have in the past. Maybe someone's getting a little backbone.


----------



## Quiethunter

Never touched any other cams but you want to be hard on these two about there bikes but what about the other yahoos that are on bikes? I'm gonna guess that would be you ridge top? I've got the pics as well! But as I have said and will continue not illegal, no signs have ever been up that trail and even at that they didn't ride up there during any hunt period! I guess by seeing some of the comments I guess some people have some personal issues about their hunt. I can't do anything about their issues but can only make sure that I follow the rules and do my very best not to disturb anyone's hunt! If I have ever wronged anyone I am sorry. Just gonna throw that out!


----------



## Berretta40

klbzdad said:


> Why in the sam h e l l were you even going in there on opening morning of the archery hunt in the first place?!?!?! Seems to me that if you were worth your salt, you would have replaced that camera long before the season started so that you weren't interrupting other public land hunters. Maybe it was the sound of your mullet, I mean, mufflers that send the herd running. Then you admit to carrying a handgun but you surely didn't brandish it? You lit a cig, right in front of two bowhunters where you obviously know animals come through and you just dismiss that? Yeah, you're making the case that you are female hygiene products. Be glad you don't pull this crap where me, my friends and family, and some of the other hunters I know spend their opening weekend.


It wasn't opening morning; it was afternoon.

IF you didn't read anything.........the bikes were on the trailer that day on the road. We hiked in to the camera's......quietly. And.......the OP in the canyon was the one who busted the heard out of there before we even started up the trail. Remember? He moved his spot under some trees on the ground, to the stand and busted them. He told us that, 50 yards away from us while in the stand. I mean, you can't whisper from 50 yards; you've got to talk louder for us to hear.

Female hygiene products? You are a piece of work, let me tell ya.

Thanks for contributing.


----------



## Berretta40

wyogoob said:


> What a great post!!
> 
> I think you two fellas oughtta get your pistols, jump on your dirt bikes, and go to the range together.
> 
> Uh....then have a smoke on the way to the barber shop.
> 
> .


What a contribution.


----------



## stillhunterman

I think somewhere in the middle of all this lays the truth. Hopefully by bringing this public, not only the participants of this action will learn a thing or two, but others just might as well. Personally, I really don't care if it was morning or late afternoon when the fellers involved went up to check/change/fix/ the trail cam, it was just plain wrong to do so then. But as mentioned, hopefully that mistake will not be repeated in the future.


----------



## outdoorser

Quiethunter said:


> Never touched any other cams but you want to be hard on these two about there bikes but what about the other yahoos that are on bikes? I'm gonna guess that would be you ridge top? I've got the pics as well! But as I have said and will continue not illegal, no signs have ever been up that trail and even at that they didn't ride up there during any hunt period! I guess by seeing some of the comments I guess some people have some personal issues about their hunt. I can't do anything about their issues but can only make sure that I follow the rules and do my very best not to disturb anyone's hunt! If I have ever wronged anyone I am sorry. Just gonna throw that out!


Dude at least admit that your one of them. I'm not saying anything, I wasn't there and don't know who's not telling the whole truth. But it kinda looks weird for a guy to know so much about the instance when they claim they weren't even there. Again, I'm not blaming anyone, just don't lie when telling somebody your not lying about a different matter.


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## hotspot

Seems to me that if your going to go blazing your way into a hunting area to check your camera during a peak time of hunting (opening day) your going to catch hell for it. Common sense says you should have been more aware of the situation. But what else is new. Slob hunters only think of themselves. Going in on opening day of a hunt regardless of the time you know your going to bump into hunters. Lighting a smoke, ya that's brilliant!!! Carrying a fire arm. Give me a break. But then again I'm sure you feel entitled to act like this!


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## hossblur

I'm in.

1. This weekend is Labor Day, we will be in the area we hunt elk camping. I would love to get in the trees before light to see whats moving BUT WON'T, I know there is a hunt going on. HOWEVER we will hike in the middle of the day and check the holes and wallers. I am respectful, but it IS PUBLIC LAND.
2. I am a CC holder, better yet when in the hills i usually carry on my belt, if you felt threatened you were holding a bow, and we have ALL SEEN WHAT RAMBO CAN DO WITH A BULL.
3. THE NEBO IS NOTHING BUT A TINDERBOX. WTF are you doing in the forest sparking up?? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?? I am far from anti smoking, but GET REAL!! If it burns it won't stop until xmas, smoke them if you got them but come on MAN USE YOUR HEAD, you won't nicky to death on the walk back to the truck.
4. Other than that I don't see what the bike guys did as anything illegal, I LIKED MY NAUTICA SHIRT A HOLES, perhaps not the most polite thing, but pretty far from illegal. COME ON MAN, SMOKEY THE BEAR IS DEPENDING ON YOU!!!


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## BPturkeys

I am with Goob on this one,...a mullet, really?...a mullet...**** man, it don't matter what you say, you're simply NEVER going to get any respect as long as ya go around wearin a ...makes me laugh to even say the word...-_O--_O-MULLET


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## Dunkem

No one will really know what happened except the OP and the 2 dudes. Admit you were wrong ,and let it be a good learning experience.The 2 of you would have a problem if this happened on your opening day hunt,so learn from this and lets help each other and have common courtesy to each other.


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## hossblur

Never be ashamed of the mullet! I love hair metal, you know, guys who could ACTUALLY PLAY AN INSTRUMENT, and didn't need their voice "enhanced". Besides have you seen the kids these days, YUP MULLETS! I married me a big haired girl, to quote Phil Robertson, "she has cooked me many a good meal"!!


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## dmaestas

Just like everyone else, i do not know what actually happened. But i do know that the majority of us would be very disapointed if ANYTHING happened on the opener that we felt hurt our chances of filling a tag. Hopefully everyone learns something from all this drama


----------



## Berretta40

outdoorser said:


> Dude at least admit that your one of them. I'm not saying anything, I wasn't there and don't know who's not telling the whole truth. But it kinda looks weird for a guy to know so much about the instance when they claim they weren't even there. Again, I'm not blaming anyone, just don't lie when telling somebody your not lying about a different matter.


I've stated in another post that he is a member of our party of 8. Maybe you missed that one?

Quiet hunter hasn't lied about a thing here. All truths.


----------



## Berretta40

hossblur said:


> I'm in.
> 
> 1. This weekend is Labor Day, we will be in the area we hunt elk camping. I would love to get in the trees before light to see whats moving BUT WON'T, I know there is a hunt going on. HOWEVER we will hike in the middle of the day and check the holes and wallers. I am respectful, but it IS PUBLIC LAND.
> 2. I am a CC holder, better yet when in the hills i usually carry on my belt, if you felt threatened you were holding a bow, and we have ALL SEEN WHAT RAMBO CAN DO WITH A BULL.
> 3. THE NEBO IS NOTHING BUT A TINDERBOX. WTF are you doing in the forest sparking up?? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?? I am far from anti smoking, but GET REAL!! If it burns it won't stop until xmas, smoke them if you got them but come on MAN USE YOUR HEAD, you won't nicky to death on the walk back to the truck.
> 4. Other than that I don't see what the bike guys did as anything illegal, I LIKED MY NAUTICA SHIRT A HOLES, perhaps not the most polite thing, but pretty far from illegal. COME ON MAN, SMOKEY THE BEAR IS DEPENDING ON YOU!!!


Don't worry mr hossblur; i am a responsible gun owner, as well as a responsible smoker. Been hunting this area for over 25 years with great success, sparking up wherever i please. Also hunted with another party of 6-8 guys, who also smoked more than i.

Like i mentioned previously, a little bad timing on the " sparking up " ( lmao ). Never heard it put that way.....but ok whatever.

Apologies have been sent to the OP, along with a PM. Hopefully we can make amends on this fiasco, and all get along.


----------



## Berretta40

Dunkem said:


> No one will really know what happened except the OP and the 2 dudes. Admit you were wrong ,and let it be a good learning experience.The 2 of you would have a problem if this happened on your opening day hunt,so learn from this and lets help each other and have common courtesy to each other.


The OP and the ( 3 ) dudes you mean.

Point taken, and you are correct.


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## Quiethunter

Ya I am one of them, but not on the day in question, I have hiked up there after dark last week. I own a few cameras on the mtn. And I've have the unfortunate fortune of others walking into my set! And I've had my cameras broke and stuff. I can tell you bike or no bike smoke or no smoke where he is at the elk will not bust to far, so if by chance the elk where busted out like that guy said that he busted them a few minutes earlier then when he smoked and left could've help the hunter, because the elk would have watched them leave and came out knowing it was safe! I have watch elk lay twenty feet from a well used trail in American fork as bikers and hikers just go by! They don't even get up! I know some dont like bikes up on the mtn. But we respect people and the land we spend our summer up on the mtn. Cleaning trails and garbage which includes cutting tree that have fallen across the trails, and even pick up trash! So I feel we are doing are part as long as we stay on the trails. Those of you who don't like bikes up there because of noise or what ever else just keep in mind, it's public land it's for everyone, I personally don't like the cattle up there they destroy all in there path and crap in the streams but its not up to me they are up there! At least I just stay on trails and am curious to others. Heck opening morning rifle last year we had a few guys on horses truly screw my hunt at dawn by taking there horses off trail and riding them right into a herd with 3 spikes in it! I was pissed, and for my entire hunt they were always following us. That's fine it's public land! And no I don't think an eye for eye is right nor is that what they did. I am gonna stop posting anymore stuff about this, just remember they didn't mean to hurt his chances nor did they branish a gun, nor did they ride the bikes up that afternoon. the camera just broke the week before and needed to change it! Bad timing!! I wish all of you the best of luck and wish no harm to anyone and respect all of you that are being a adult about this issue. Best of luck to all!


----------



## solocam

Maybe its just me but I see Beretta40 admitting he should of waited till dark to move/check cams and that smoking was a dumb move. And he seems sincere and sorry for this mess. I haven't seen the OP return to refute any of 40s claims...which may or may not mean anything.

I don't know, maybe I am more thick skinned. Its a given that while hunting public land you are going to run into people. Say your sorry, good luck and move on. Why can't that be the case here?


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## Mr Muleskinner

well in that case all is justified........:-(

almost sounds like OP should have said thanks according to Quiet. Especially since the elk may have recognized that the smoking mullet was leaving the area.


----------



## Berretta40

solocam said:


> Maybe its just me but I see Beretta40 admitting he should of waited till dark to move/check cams and that smoking was a dumb move. And he seems sincere and sorry for this mess. I haven't seen the OP return to refute any of 40s claims...which may or may not mean anything.
> 
> I don't know, maybe I am more thick skinned. Its a given that while hunting public land you are going to run into people. Say your sorry, good luck and move on. Why can't that be the case here?


Hopefully the OP is sitting in that tree stand right now. It would be good timing for him, because all of our party is not around. And, if he keeps at it....there's a nice sized heard coming in to water. Lots of pics of them; with that whole trough both sides crowded with elk.

Thanks for your post.


----------



## Springville Shooter

Beretta,
If you change your name to "Smoking Mullet" I will add you to my friends list.-----SS


----------



## RichardClarke

After reading through 10 pages of this soap opera a few things came to my mind. First of all the encounter in the field and the subsequent cyber he said she said that occurred on the internet, really gives us sportsmen a bad name. Also as someone in pages 1-10 pointed out the truth in all of this lies somewhere in the middle. But one thing I found curious, if these people really did go ripping up the trail on opening morning and the guy held his hand on his peacemaker/big iron for the "remainder of their stay", wouldn't this have also been caught on the trail cam? The main point of contention seems to be whether Billy Ray Cyrus was making threatening behavior with his hog leg. Me thinks the trail cam would have caught at least a frame or two of that posturing....


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## jayo

There are two sides. I'm glad Berretta came on and gave his side. I'm sure it will work itself out between the two parties. If what b40 and quiethunter say is true they are good guys and this was all a lack of judgement and a misunderstanding.I think every one of us has had one of those moments.


----------



## chittrchattrbangbang

Ok i just want to say a few things here i am to a hunter and regardless whether or not you are an arrow pusher or a rifle hunter we all half to put up with this kinda thing. for one we dont own the mountain and whether or not these guys were hunters or just a weekend hiker or horse back riders they have every rite to be there as we all do. this has been getting out of hand and could have all been prevented if the hunter talked with these guys and asked them if they would be considerate to the fact that he is hunting up there after all he said this has been going on for 2 years (rite)? a simple fix would have been to leave a note on there trail cam asking. but i am a rifle hunter as every rifle hunter knows the animals are not moving at 2:00 in the after noon so if that guy never ever hunted with a bow i can understand why they wouldn't think twice about going up there at that time.like i said this all could have been prevented with a note or a verbal contact. instead of every one acting like a bunch of teen age girls (drama).i have had many people hikers,hunters,horseback riders mess up my set as you all call it but you dont see me on here crying like a baby.guys its simple just talk to people like one of you said 90%of hunters-hikers are decent why cant we just try to coexist.but a suggestion to the op if you don't want to have this happen as much maybe you should consider moving your (set)to a place that's farther away from the road then 1/4 mile.


----------



## ridgetop

Quiethunter said:


> Never touched any other cams but you want to be hard on these two about there bikes but what about the other yahoos that are on bikes? I'm gonna guess that would be you ridge top? I've got the pics as well! But as I have said and will continue not illegal, no signs have ever been up that trail and even at that they didn't ride up there during any hunt period! I guess by seeing some of the comments I guess some people have some personal issues about their hunt. I can't do anything about their issues but can only make sure that I follow the rules and do my very best not to disturb anyone's hunt! If I have ever wronged anyone I am sorry. Just gonna throw that out!


 Quiethunter, what are you referring to? I'm a little confused why you brought my name up?
Please enlighten!


----------



## klbzdad

Berretta40 said:


> It wasn't opening morning; it was afternoon.
> 
> IF you didn't read anything.........the bikes were on the trailer that day on the road. We hiked in to the camera's......quietly. And.......the OP in the canyon was the one who busted the heard out of there before we even started up the trail. Remember? He moved his spot under some trees on the ground, to the stand and busted them. He told us that, 50 yards away from us while in the stand. I mean, you can't whisper from 50 yards; you've got to talk louder for us to hear.
> 
> Female hygiene products? You are a piece of work, let me tell ya.
> 
> Thanks for contributing.


Opening morning, afternoon, mid day, midnight, evening, dawn, sundown, whatever. Its semantics at this point and you're doing nothing but justifying behaviors the majority of outdoorsmen (hunters of all weapons) see as inappropriate. However, seeing that you've apologized, I can do no more than accept that you've said your piece and hope that all parties have learned something and will be more respectful in the future. Good luck!


----------



## jayo

ridgetop said:


> Quiethunter, what are you referring to? I'm a little confused why you brought my name up?
> Please enlighten!


I think he thought you were talking about him when you said, you're suprised the mods didn't delete the pics.


----------



## ridgetop

jayo said:


> I think he thought you were talking about him when you said, you're suprised the mods didn't delete the pics.


Ya, I realized that but he said: "what about all the other yahoos on bikes, like you Ridgetop" And that he also had pictures. I'm guessing he was referring to me on that too but oh well, I was just hoping for more detail.


----------



## Kevin D

A couple thoughts on this thread....

First, public land is a shared resource, no one has exclusive right to a piece of it regardless of whether it is opening day, if you have a youth with you, who got there first or whatever......nor does it give the right to one party to dictate to others how they behave while legally using the resource (I'm talking about lighting up a cigarette here). It was nice of the trail cam checkers to apologize to the OP, but in my mind it was unnecessary.

Second, just because there wasn't a sign posted at the bottom of the trail doesn't mean it is legal to take motorized vehicles up it. Signs get torn down on a regular basis and what is legally binding is the travel management map for the area provided by appropriate land management agency, be it the Forest Service or the BLM. It is the responsibility of the user to know if a trail is open for motorized use before they head up there......it doesn't matter if there is a sign on the bottom or that somebody else went up there first.

Third, the holstered gun is a non issue. Whether it was touched in a threatening manner in this incident is up to interpretation. With no proof other than the word of the two parties nothing would be prosecutable anyway.

Fourth, What' wrong with a mullet?? Would it be more pleasing to forum members if he wore heavy sideburns and a handle bar mustache of the 70's?? How about the ducktail look of the 50's?? I guess I'm going to have to hire a fashion consultant before I go to check my own trail cams so I don't get ridiculed!


----------



## ridgetop

Kevin D said:


> A couple thoughts on this thread....
> 
> First, public land is a shared resource, no one has exclusive right to a piece of it regardless of whether it is opening day, if you have a youth with you, who got there first or whatever......nor does it give the right to one party to dictate to others how they behave while legally using the resource (I'm talking about lighting up a cigarette here). It was nice of the trail cam checkers to apologize to the OP, but in my mind it was unnecessary.
> 
> Second, just because there wasn't a sign posted at the bottom of the trail doesn't mean it is legal to take motorized vehicles up it. Signs get torn down on a regular basis and what is legally binding is the travel management map for the area provided by appropriate land management agency, be it the Forest Service or the BLM. It is the responsibility of the user to know if a trail is open for motorized use before they head up there......it doesn't matter if there is a sign on the bottom or that somebody else went up there first.
> 
> Third, the holstered gun is a non issue. Whether it was touched in a threatening manner in this incident is up to interpretation. With no proof other than the word of the two parties nothing would be prosecutable anyway.
> 
> Fourth, What' wrong with a mullet?? Would it be more pleasing to forum members if he wore heavy sideburns and a handle bar mustache of the 70's?? How about the ducktail look of the 50's?? I guess I'm going to have to hire a fashion consultant before I go to check my own trail cams so I don't get ridiculed!


I agree 1,000%! 
You know, the bald look is in now and I've got a razor.


----------



## 2full

Kevin,
I like the fashion idea for the trail cam pics..........
The only guy I see on mine is some old fat guy walking up to it.....
Wait a minute that's me..........


----------



## utskidad

Sad to see the posts which take the position that we're talking about public land, it's not against the law, and so deal with it. We once lived in a society that had few laws, but plenty of restrictions on personal behavior. They were enforced by social pressure and, at the extreme, vigilantism. I can't imagine my own father's reaction to a fellow spectator dropping an F-bomb around us kids in a restaurant. I can't imagine it, because I never got to see it happen. People just didn't behave like that. 

We now live in a time where the rule is, if behavior is not illegal, it can't be the subject of social condemnation. How sad that the absolute measure of acceptable behavior in public life has become the cold, morally corrupt institution we call government. And how sad that people's first response to any criticism is that their behavior is not illegal. 

Know what else isn't illegal?
- peeing in the pool
- screaming F-bombs at your kid
- driving 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane
- not tipping

People, do your really want a government that regulates every measure of your personal behavior? If not, it's time to start discussing and addressing failures of individual conduct in public forums like this one. 

Afterward: I sense we're moving toward of measure of public behavior of how something makes us "feel" regardless of legality. The leading indicator of this is the vast number of people I see dragging their family dogs into stores that sell food.


----------



## CROC

I am surprised how many people on this forum, THINK that because you are on public land it's (Ethical, fine,) should just be accepted by someone to watch you come in to a spot on opening day while they are hunting and disrupt a hunt. "Hey buddy good to see you! your on public land and your hunts in a month, just head in a check your camera in case there is a pic of something you might want to shoot." No one would be happy if this happened on any day with your kid with you or not. We should all respect space of others already in the area.


----------



## klbzdad

Quiethunter said:


> Klbzdad, the bikes were not even started that day, they drove there truck up and again like I said they walked in. Ya I agree it was bad timing! But if anyone still thinks that a fire arm was used in a threatening manner ever, you are VERY VERY misguided. I guess if a guy has a weapon you'd be the type to say he was brandishing it just because you seen the butt of it because the shirt lifted up! I guess people that want to throw mud on this forum that wasn't there or even know those who where there, just may want to look at it in a more open way! But bikes are allowed on trails up there, and that particular one isn't marked. So they walked in out of respect for whom ever might be hunting that part!


I openly carry my weapon on the mountain and have my CCP but understand how gestures can be misinterpreted and therefore take care at all times NOT to give anyone fuel to accuse me of anything unlawful.

So, you're saying that just because a trail isn't marked that its okay to ride on it? That's irresponsible! Its YOUR responsibility to know where you can and can't use motorized vehicles and most of us here would mostly assume that if it isn't a marked trail that you shouldn't use a motorized vehicle on it. I see lots of trails I'd like to run my quad up but one monkey does something stupid and all monkeys will follow. I hope a lesson is learned. Besides, big game animals are more and more becoming sensitive to motorized noises of all kinds and you aren't doing yourselves any favors if you're able to walk in on foot. Good luck!


----------



## goofy elk

WOW, What an ugly thread this is!!!!!

Guilty without trial:|

Mugshots? False accusations?, personnal attacks ....


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

that is the world that we live in Goofy. A guy is arrested and he may be innocent until proven guilty in the court of law but in the eye of the press and public, by and large, he is guilty now just by association and will probably never clear his name 100%.


----------



## solocam

CROC said:


> I am surprised how many people on this forum, THINK that because you are on public land it's (Ethical, fine,) should just be accepted by someone to watch you come in to a spot on opening day while they are hunting and disrupt a hunt. "Hey buddy good to see you! your on public land and your hunts in a month, just head in a check your camera in case there is a pic of something you might want to shoot." No one would be happy if this happened on any day with your kid with you or not. We should all respect space of others already in the area.


Better never go on a general rifle hunt.


----------



## outdoorser

Kevin D said:


> What' wrong with a mullet?? Would it be more pleasing to forum members if he wore heavy sideburns and a handle bar mustache of the 70's?? How about the ducktail look of the 50's?? I guess I'm going to have to hire a fashion consultant before I go to check my own trail cams so I don't get ridiculed!


I agree. Just cuz I've had a fo-hawk before, doesn't mean I'm gay or anything:-? 8)


----------



## Vanilla

utskidad said:


> sad to see the posts which take the position that we're talking about public land, it's not against the law, and so deal with it. We once lived in a society that had few laws, but plenty of restrictions on personal behavior. They were enforced by social pressure and, at the extreme, vigilantism. I can't imagine my own father's reaction to a fellow spectator dropping an f-bomb around us kids in a restaurant. I can't imagine it, because i never got to see it happen. People just didn't behave like that.
> 
> We now live in a time where the rule is, if behavior is not illegal, it can't be the subject of social condemnation. How sad that the absolute measure of acceptable behavior in public life has become the cold, morally corrupt institution we call government. And how sad that people's first response to any criticism is that their behavior is not illegal.
> 
> Know what else isn't illegal?
> - peeing in the pool
> - screaming f-bombs at your kid
> - driving 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane
> - not tipping
> 
> people, do your really want a government that regulates every measure of your personal behavior? If not, it's time to start discussing and addressing failures of individual conduct in public forums like this one.
> 
> Afterward: I sense we're moving toward of measure of public behavior of how something makes us "feel" regardless of legality. The leading indicator of this is the vast number of people i see dragging their family dogs into stores that sell food.


^^^^ this!


----------



## martymcfly73

I'm honestly surprised goofy is taking the side of these asshats. I guess we know who the "real men" are.


----------



## ridgetop

martymcfly73 said:


> I'm honestly surprised goofy is taking the side of these asshats. I guess we know who the "real men" are.


marty, your public love affair for goofy is getting real old.:-?


----------



## martymcfly73

ridgetop said:


> marty, your public love affair for goofy is getting real old.:-?


Don't read the replies then.


----------



## sknabnoj

Best thread ever... Can we sticky this?


----------



## wyogoob

ridgetop said:


> Heck.
> I'm just really impressed that the mods. did not delete the pictures in the first hour, like they have in the past. Maybe someone's getting a little backbone.


Thanks for the head's up. I removed the pic that showed the individual's face. My best guess is the originator of the thread didn't have the man's permission to put up his picture. If he did have his permission I will gladly put the picture back up.

I am impressed the "bad guys" signed in to the UWN and put up their side of the story.

There are few *mods* left and the ones that are left do not read all the posts.

Whine on everybody.

. 
Top of the page, cool.

.


----------



## solocam

wyogoob said:


> Thanks for the head's up. I removed the pic that showed the individual's face. My best guess is the originator of the thread didn't have the man's permission to put up his picture. If he did have his permission I will gladly put the picture back up.
> 
> I am impressed the "bad guys" signed in to the UWN and put up their side of the story.
> 
> There are few *mods* left and the ones that are left do not read all the posts.
> 
> Whine on everybody.
> 
> Top of the page, cool.
> 
> .


Whine on? Should be locked. No wonder that this place is dead.


----------



## Dunkem

:mullet: Had to do it.:smile:


----------



## goofy elk

martymcfly73 said:


> I'm honestly surprised goofy is taking the side of these asshats. I guess we know who the "real men" are.


I'm not taking 'any' side .....

I'm just pointing out YOU, and a few others have a rope and a hangtree
all picked out without even knowing the whole story ......

LET ALONE any type legal 'type' evidence?
Law enforcment-arest??????????????????NONE.....

Who's the 'real men' here?....Certainly not those making false accusations:!:


----------



## Berretta40

It's nice to know there's *some* descent people on this forum. Thanks guys for at least hearing me out. Removing the pic is much appreciated as well.

We all have altercations in the field, where someone pisses us off. It happens all the time, and will continue. Hopefully we can all learn to be descent in the field, and coexist in a nice friendly manner. I and my hunting partners thoroughly enjoy being in the hills with friends and family, and hopefully there will be no harm done here in the future, and others can enjoy it just the same.

Still haven't heard from the OP, and who knows if i will or not. But, the facts have been expressed as well as apologies extended. Hopefully we can resolve this via this thread, or maybe run into him on the mountain, and get this straightened out.

Thanks to all of those who made an ethical contribution to this situation; it is much appreciated. Good luck to you!!!


----------



## stablebuck

please learn how to spell "decent" it's driving me nuts...there you go...you learned something from all these posts...;-)


----------



## polarbear

Berretta40 said:


> It's nice to know there's *some* descent people on this forum. Thanks guys for at least hearing me out. Removing the pic is much appreciated as well.
> 
> We all have altercations in the field, where someone pisses us off. It happens all the time, and will continue. Hopefully we can all learn to be descent in the field, and coexist in a nice friendly manner. I and my hunting partners thoroughly enjoy being in the hills with friends and family, and hopefully there will be no harm done here in the future, and others can enjoy it just the same.
> 
> Still haven't heard from the OP, and who knows if i will or not. But, the facts have been expressed as well as apologies extended. Hopefully we can resolve this via this thread, or maybe run into him on the mountain, and get this straightened out.
> 
> Thanks to all of those who made an ethical contribution to this situation; it is much appreciated. Good luck to you!!!


Well said. Oh, and sorry for poking fun at your hair and shirt. I hope you know it was all in good fun. Heck, I would still wear my Nautica shirts if I could fit in them.

Regardless of what I think about what you did, I admire the fact that you are trying to sort it out with the OP. I'm sure an apology is in order from both sides, and hopefully we can move on... mostly because I'm getting tired of trying to keep up with this thread


----------



## Springville Shooter

I just want SOMEONE to take the name"Smoking Mullet"------SS


----------



## CROC

solocam said:


> Better never go on a general rifle hunt.


This is why I switched to the Muzz hunt.


----------



## Huge29

Springville Shooter said:


> I just want SOMEONE to take the name"Smoking Mullet"------SS


That can be arranged; lets see if they can get their buddy to join us. 
Good discussion guys! If nothing else, these discussion do make me do a better job of thinking of others in being more considerate, I might even start leaving my motorcycle on the roads now rather than taking them way up the illegal trail :mrgreen:. I too am impressed that some of the guys came on here to defend themselves and they seem sincere to me, welcome to the forum guys!


----------



## Charina

I was starting to get nice warm fuzzy feelings about the apologies, lack of retorts, etc (despite a handful of red flags in the various posts) . . .

But then . . .


Berretta40 said:


> We all have altercations in the field, where someone pisses us off. It happens all the time, and will continue.


NO, we don't "all have altercations in the field". Many of us think enough with our brains, and not with a basal need driven from an inferiority complex, to back down and avoid any such petty and _ignorant_ behaviors!

Any yayhoo that is willing to enter into an altercation in the field, while parties are carrying lethal weapons, is someone that I seriously want to avoid.


----------



## goonsquad

Block the trail next time you come down it... **** sure I would have made it hard for them to ride anything back up it. 
I would have left them a nice note as well, right on the lens of their camera. -O,-


----------



## chittrchattrbangbang

and you call your self a sportsman damaging or dismembering some one ells es **** don't make you a sportsman!


----------



## chittrchattrbangbang

You don't were do you hunt


----------



## Quiethunter

Charina, what he was meaning by that is, haven't you ever accidentally came a crossed someone's set, or has someone ever came through yours. Totally accidentally? This does happen and will continue even if you are being as careful as you can be! This situation just got out of hand, partly due to the op exaggerating the truth. What truth was there was the smoking. Which was bad and I really don't think that will ever happen again. That's all b40 meant. Yes I am part of that party and I know that we try to show the up most respect for the other hunters out there! Matter of fact my 12 yr. daughter is coming hunting this year for her first hunt and know that that holds more responsibility then anything. To show her GOOD hunting ethics and common sense. I do feel bad about the op and that it could have gone a bit better! 
I have still seen post after the fact about the bikes, again they didn't even come off the trailer, the two in question hiked in.


----------



## solocam

Quiethunter said:


> Charina, what he was meaning by that is, haven't you ever accidentally came a crossed someone's set, or has someone ever came through yours. Totally accidentally? This does happen and will continue even if you are being as careful as you can be! This situation just got out of hand, partly due to the op exaggerating the truth. What truth was there was the smoking. Which was bad and I really don't think that will ever happen again. That's all b40 meant. Yes I am part of that party and I know that we try to show the up most respect for the other hunters out there! Matter of fact my 12 yr. daughter is coming hunting this year for her first hunt and know that that holds more responsibility then anything. To show her GOOD hunting ethics and common sense. I do feel bad about the op and that it could have gone a bit better!
> I have still seen post after the fact about the bikes, again they didn't even come off the trailer, the two in question hiked in.[/QUOTE
> 
> You guys have made your piece...if they can't except it then that shows the true character. Don't know how many times a dead horse needs beat....apparently a lot.


----------



## Charina

Quiethunter said:


> Charina, what he was meaning by that is . . .


 "Altercation" is in no way analogous to 'accidently coming across someone's set'. Not even close. Either there is a vocabulary issue, or a story-spin issue. Either way, deduct one credibility point.



Quiethunter said:


> This situation just got out of hand, partly due to the op exaggerating the truth. What truth was there was the smoking.


So you believe that a subsequent post on a forum caused a situation to get out of hand - before the exaggeration even occurred. That would be another hit to the credibility.



Quiethunter said:


> I have still seen post after the fact about the bikes, again they didn't even come off the trailer, the two in question hiked in.


You know this, not even being there? Speaking in the first person, as if you were a witness, when all you have to give is second (third?) hand information is unconvincing. So, if I understand correctly, your buddies drove their bikes to the trailhead that you are all so adamant is legal to ride, and just left them on the trailer rather than ride up, despite the lung functionality issues likely resulting from smoking? Just taking the bikes for a ride to 'window-shop' the trailhead scenery, but not go for a ride?

From the limited postings, you guys seem ok in some ways. You certainly could have come on here and been far more caustic and retaliatory than you have been. There has been some class shown in responses. I'll certainly give you credit for that. But man, there is some serious credibility concerns arising from the nature of other posts.

Bottom line - Both parties agree it was known it was opening weekend, that there is a water hole up this trail that a "CUV" was parked at the bottom of, and someone still chose to go up to the water hole and change a camera. That is poor judgment in my mind. No wonder "altercations . . . happen[] all the time" for your buddy.


----------



## GaryFish

Wowsers. I don't know how I missed this whole thread. Very interesting. I'll throw a few things out there for consideration:

-It is a bad assumption to think that everyone else knows what I know. In this case, assuming that non-archery hunters know or even care when the archery season is. To me, that is like expecting a hard core 49ers fan to know who the Dodgers are playing this weekend.

-Just because we don't like what someone else does, does not mean that they did it just to irritate us. When a guy zooms past me on the freeway, it isn't because he wants to piss me off, he just wants to get where he is going faster. Nothing more. Nothing less.

-I get the public lands issue of multiple uses. And that happens. I've had guys cutting firewood when I tried to stalk a buck. I showed up to my hunting spot on State lands one year to find it subdivided and bulldozers working all day where I wanted to hunt. It happens.

-I'm not taking sides in this issue at all. Seems like those directly involved have it worked out well enough. Good on 'em. 

-When we share the lands, I think a great deal of good happens when we all make extra efforts to be a little more patient with one another, and give each other the benefit of the doubt. 

-Lastly - Best of luck to all the hunters out there - from the stick flippers to the smoke poles to the rifle guys. And especially to anyone taking their kid out. Good on ya!


----------



## Berretta40

Charina said:


> I was starting to get nice warm fuzzy feelings about the apologies, lack of retorts, etc (despite a handful of red flags in the various posts) . . .
> 
> But then . . . NO, we don't "all have altercations in the field". Many of us think enough with our brains, and not with a basal need driven from an inferiority complex, to back down and avoid any such petty and _ignorant_ behaviors!
> 
> Any yayhoo that is willing to enter into an altercation in the field, while parties are carrying lethal weapons, is someone that I seriously want to avoid.


Yes we all have altercations in the field. It happens.

Inferiority complex huh? And how long have you been hunting in your lifetime?

Quiet hunter said it how it is, and obviously you chose to read into it differently.

Nice attempt to add credibility points to yourself.


----------



## Berretta40

goonsquad said:


> Block the trail next time you come down it... **** sure I would have made it hard for them to ride anything back up it.
> I would have left them a nice note as well, right on the lens of their camera. -O,-


They've already done so, mr true sportsman.


----------



## jayo

These guys were public enemy number one before they even joined this LA site. They came on, offered an explanation and still some people won't get off of their ass. Maybe some people weren't blessed with a perfect vocabulary and can't think of the correct word to use to describe a situation. For never having an altercation in the field, some of sure make up for it on the internet.


----------



## Charina

The summum bonum of this thread:

"People oftain fail to grasp their own incompetence, precisely because they are so incompetent." Daniel R. Hawes


----------



## martymcfly73

Charina said:


> The summum bonum of this thread:
> 
> "People oftain fail to grasp their own incompetence, precisely because they are so incompetent." Daniel R. Hawes


Look in the mirror.


----------



## utahgolf

This whole thing could have been avoided if people just said no to trailcams.. nuff said!  :grin:


----------



## Quiethunter

He who hasn't made a mistake at some point cast the first stone! Charina, what if someone started a thread about you, said you came into a set and waved your gun around and started target practicing where someone was hunting? I guaranty people like you would want to hang you from the nearest tree! You would know it wasn't true but what would that matter? Your already guilty! Think before you pass judgment on others!


----------



## Dunkem

Put it to bed already:!: Apologies were given,lessons learned,proceed forward.


----------



## Tylert

Is this your private property? Or public land?


----------



## Quiethunter

Public


----------



## hossblur

Berreta, like probably most of the guys on here I read the account, pictured Joe Dirt, were irritated about the pistol grab and were pretty disillusioned by the whole account. Then you came in here, put out your side of the story, offered apologies several times and took a good deal of ribbing about the mullet, sparking up, Nautica shirts, etc, and did so with good humor, and grace. Funny how I went from wanting to punch you in the face to wanting to have a beer with you all. Good on you for handling this the right way!


----------



## Huge29

Dunkem said:


> Put it to bed already:!: Apologies were given,lessons learned,proceed forward.


What?! I was hoping for another 12 pages; this is the most interesting thread in weeks. :mrgreen::mrgreen:


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

jayo said:


> Take some spray paint next time you're in the area. paint the lens on their camera, or put a bullet in it.


I'm mentoring a youth hunter, the last thing I want to do is set the same kind of example. Two wrongs do not make a right, as tempting as it may be.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

gwailow said:


> You can message me if you like, but I'm pretty positive I know where you were at. If so, these guys pulled similar stunts last year. I can probably point you to their camp...why, because they leave it there for a month or more. I have one good friend who got in a similar altercation, and I'm betting it was the exact same two guys.
> 
> Lastly, these feminine hygiene products are not from Nephi. Not real cool that some of you guys are ragging on Nephi folks, sounds like some of you have a personal grudge with someone...if these guys are who I think they are, then they are from Northern Utah. I'll buzz up there this weekend and see if they have moved their camp in already. They are real choice pieces of work if so.
> 
> PM where you were at, and I'll bet for certain it's the same dudes. Also, just an FYI there is an area that is legal for motorcycles where you are at. However, they are required to stay on the trail.


Actually this area is not open. Last year "someone" ran over the sign with their bike and broke it off. We took the time to stand it back up with a pylon of rocks at the trail head. As you can imagine, it has since been re removed.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Yes. 


svmoose said:


> Have these 2 been identified yet?


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

ddhunter said:


> Unfortunately there is no evidence of anything except the dirt bikes being off trail. If you want any real punishment there will have to be a better documented incident. I would report them to the LE so they watch that area and wash my hands of it. Utah is a pretty big state. If you and your daughter need any help getting on some elk pm me and I can give you a few spots that have produced in the past.


Thanks for the offer, I'm probably out for this season, because her telling my ex about the guy with the gun, as you may imagine, has put a damper on my ability to take her out again this season. But I would love to start putting together an idea of a new place to take her in the future.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Quiethunter said:


> Well, you said yourselves you had already spooked the herd not 20 minutes before they got there. Second you talking to them from your treestand in normal voice wouldn't get the elk to come back and third, it wasn't till 2 pm in the afternoon! Although they would never want to blow your opening day of the hunt! This water hole is well known to all and is way over hunted and has been for as long as its been there! I do agree the one who smoked shouldn't have and that was probably not called for, but I'm guessing he has never bow hunted. You sir, if you are angry and want sympathy at least do not exaggerate the facts. Was not a ratchet it was a driver, no noise! And the gun thing is so untruthful it's not even funny. I do know they said and still do say good luck and wish you and your daughter get one! I personally know how hard the bow hunt is without the other stuff there so I would recommend finding a waterhole that isn't right off the road! Good luck and be safe I hope your daughter loves hunting as much as the rest of us!


I'm not getting into a he said she said debate with you. The facts are that they have been riding bikes up a closed trail. They came in, on opening day, while we were sitting in our tree stand, a clear indicator that we were actively hunting. If we came in during their rifle hunt and started clanking around the area they were hunting, you bet your butt they would be upset about it.

I'm not going to debate you the facts because I personally don't care about the court of public opinion on this one. After you guys left, we hunted every available minute of daylight and saw zero wildlife the rest of our trip. There isn't a whole lot you can say to justify anything this group did. It was rude, uncalled for, and portions of it are illegal. If you feel like what I'm saying is untrue, I encourage you to call the Juab county sherrifs office and complain of slander. I imagine they will be very intersted to talk to any of the "gentlemen" involved.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Kevin D said:


> A couple thoughts on this thread....
> 
> First, public land is a shared resource, no one has exclusive right to a piece of it regardless of whether it is opening day, if you have a youth with you, who got there first or whatever......nor does it give the right to one party to dictate to others how they behave while legally using the resource (I'm talking about lighting up a cigarette here). It was nice of the trail cam checkers to apologize to the OP, but in my mind it was unnecessary.
> 
> Second, just because there wasn't a sign posted at the bottom of the trail doesn't mean it is legal to take motorized vehicles up it. Signs get torn down on a regular basis and what is legally binding is the travel management map for the area provided by appropriate land management agency, be it the Forest Service or the BLM. It is the responsibility of the user to know if a trail is open for motorized use before they head up there......it doesn't matter if there is a sign on the bottom or that somebody else went up there first.
> 
> Third, the holstered gun is a non issue. Whether it was touched in a threatening manner in this incident is up to interpretation. With no proof other than the word of the two parties nothing would be prosecutable anyway.
> 
> Fourth, What' wrong with a mullet?? Would it be more pleasing to forum members if he wore heavy sideburns and a handle bar mustache of the 70's?? How about the ducktail look of the 50's?? I guess I'm going to have to hire a fashion consultant before I go to check my own trail cams so I don't get ridiculed!


Your'e absolutely right. It is public land, and from a legal perspective, they could have legally come in and played a banjo and had a teaparty. It doesn't make it any less rude or innapropriate.

And heck who knows, maybe Quiet is right and this guy rests his hand naturally on his waist, conveniently on the grip of his gun as he catches his breath. That could very easily contribute to a misunderstanding of his intentions. It doesn't however help my case with the ex who got an earful about the guy with a gun from a 14 year old, and it certainly doesn't help me get her back out there.

In the end, it was rude, inconsiderate, and had a big impact on my ability to take my daughter out hunting. It shouldn't have ever hapened in the first place.

I'll be the first to say, I don't "own" that spot. We had multiple bow hunters come through in the pre dawn hours caught on camera through the first few days. And there's not a single complaint about them anywhere in this thread. They came in, saw a stand, quickly looked for sign, and then skirted widely around the area in the evenings on their way back out. Basically, they were courteous and polite. That's kind of the basic difference on the issue now, isn't it?


----------



## Nambaster

I guess my question for you Wasatch is.... What does Berretta40 have to do to make things alright? He is here on the forum and he has made an apology... Does he have to talk to your ex and explain himself? Does he have to contact her and let her know that he had no intention of offending your or your daughter? What corrective measure can me taken in order for you to be satisfied? 

Let's get this resolved and get back to our regularly scheduled program of hunting animals...


----------



## Berretta40

Wasatch. I haven't seen a PM from you, nor a reply to my messages i have on this thread. 

What else would you like me to do at this point?


----------



## Berretta40

WasatchOutdoors said:


> I'm not getting into a he said she said debate with you. The facts are that they have been riding bikes up a closed trail. They came in, on opening day, while we were sitting in our tree stand, a clear indicator that we were actively hunting. If we came in during their rifle hunt and started clanking around the area they were hunting, you bet your butt they would be upset about it.
> 
> I'm not going to debate you the facts because I personally don't care about the court of public opinion on this one. After you guys left, we hunted every available minute of daylight and saw zero wildlife the rest of our trip. There isn't a whole lot you can say to justify anything this group did. It was rude, uncalled for, and portions of it are illegal. If you feel like what I'm saying is untrue, I encourage you to call the Juab county sherrifs office and complain of slander. I imagine they will be very intersted to talk to any of the "gentlemen" involved.


No need to continue to beat a dead horse to death. The damage has been done, and mistakes have been made. Most on this thread who have read it completely understand that lessons have been learned, and that i'm trying to make amends with you.

So let's get on with it already.

For the record; Quiet hunter was not up there that day. Had he have been, with his previous bow hunter experience; we probably would have not gone in there.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

While it would probably make for good video, I would guess that anybody that was involved should avoid meeting the ex. Call me crazy.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Berretta40 said:


> Wasatch. I haven't seen a PM from you, nor a reply to my messages i have on this thread.
> 
> What else would you like me to do at this point?


Stop riding your bike on closed trails. Have some common courtesy for your fellow hunter. Dont show up on opening day, much less come in under someone else's stand while theyre actively on it. Dont smoke within 25 yards of someone elses tree stand, ever. And when they call you out on it, man up, put the thing out, and have some common courtesy. We didnt spend the last 3 weeks washing in scent killing products and pay that much attention to scent control to have you light up and then cop attitude about it.

Bottom line, your hunt was 2 months away, for you guys to come in opening weekend was crap. Dont do it to the next guy. Your camera batteries will hold until monday, its not that far of a hike, and if I can pack that ungodly ladder stand that far in on my back, you can certainly lug a trail camera that far on foot.

Just be courteous to the next guy and learn something from this. You guys have earned a reputation up there judging by the number of pm's regarding your behavior. Start being a little more conscientious of the other people up there.


----------



## Quiethunter

Muley I think I would agree, but if by any chance it would help we would try! And wasatch we went up there about a week later "at night on foot" and seen there was a herd of about 30 head that were in there every evening! I KNOW that doesn't "fix" anything, we where just hoping you had success. Wasatch I been a bow hunter have informed them that "everything" has to go right to harvest with a bow. Wasatch I/we are truly sorry for any harm that came of this situation. And I know of a few good areas that are accessible for a young person to get to with good odds of harvesting with a bow. Not rifle! I would be willing to show you my personal "sweet spot for archery elk". If you might be at all interested.


----------



## Berretta40

WasatchOutdoors said:


> Stop riding your bike on closed trails. Have some common courtesy for your fellow hunter. Dont show up on opening day, much less come in under someone else's stand while theyre actively on it. Dont smoke within 25 yards of someone elses tree stand, ever. And when they call you out on it, man up, put the thing out, and have some common courtesy. We didnt spend the last 3 weeks washing in scent killing products and pay that much attention to scent control to have you light up and then cop attitude about it.
> 
> Bottom line, your hunt was 2 months away, for you guys to come in opening weekend was crap. Dont do it to the next guy. Your camera batteries will hold until monday, its not that far of a hike, and if I can pack that ungodly ladder stand that far in on my back, you can certainly lug a trail camera that far on foot.
> 
> Just be courteous to the next guy and learn something from this. You guys have earned a reputation up there judging by the number of pm's regarding your behavior. Start being a little more conscientious of the other people up there.


We would have vacated your 'set' had you not waived us in. We asked your permission, and you allowed us in. 
The only reason i lit up in the first place, is because of how loud you were talking (from 40 yards away )about the cougar pics the year before. And, the fact that you said you busted the heard 20 minutes earlier. After you bust a heard, they typically don't hang around to see what you are. They're gone.

It was not my camera batteries i was worried about. It was to replace the camera with a new one, after some SOB broke it. It was probably the same SOB that threw my camera on the ground last year and broke it. So, after $500 in cameras; it's imperitive we check them often.

One more thing mr wasatch; your accusations and untruthful content is NOT appreciated whatsoever. Not only that, but i don't appreciate you posting my face on the internet without my permission. I'm no attorney, but i beleive there is a law against doing so.

Again, stretching the truth on ' our reputation ' up there. We have yet to be ticketed or fined for ANYTHING unlawful, over the past 25+ years in that area. 
The only reputation i can think of is that we are successful hunters; all due to time well spent checking cameras and scouting.

Nevertheless, I have no problem in the future showing more courtesy. Again, for about the 4th or 5th time; i apologize for any inconvenience we have caused; and i wish you the best of luck.


----------



## martymcfly73

No law against posting your picture. It's all over Facebook too from different people. FYI.


----------



## Berretta40

Deformation of character. 

Innocent until proven guilty. 

The OP hung me out to dry, with having motorcycles up there on opening morning ( not the case ), i brandished my firearm ( ye right ), banging the ratchet ( once ). And now, we have a reputation up there. Ye right. Bull****.

Most of what the OP said is all lies; and it's not appreciated.


----------



## riptheirlips

I have read all of these posts and it sounds like a bad situation. I can however see from the posts how 40 was all apoligetic at first and then just since wasatch came back on and explained a little more on the situation I noticed how sarcastic and defensive 40 got and wants to continue to argue. I also noticed how 40 stated he had yet to be ticketed for anything "In that area". What about other areas? I'm thinking Wasatch may be telling a little more of the truth here.


----------



## BradN

"Deformation of character". Hard to defame your character when it is admittedly deformed.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

Too Barretta40 and crew:
I don't know you from Adam, don't want to quite frankly. I run a business where I talk to a lot of people about hunting every day. Lets just say your self proclaimed inocence is a far cry from what I've heard about you. Yup, it's all hearsay, but when there's enough smoke blowing around that usually means there's a fire somewhere. Most people who are guilty of something do one of three things. Run and hide, get mean and defensive, or start making excuses, lying about what happened, and trying to save face by making themselves out to be the victim. All I'm saying is, if the shoe fits...

Too Wasatch Outdoors:

Find a new place to hunt dude. This place has obviously been overrun. Life is WAY too short to hunt in an area that has too much of an idiot factor...


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## martymcfly73

Sorry, no such law as defamation of character. It's called free speech. He can post your picture anywhere he wants. It was taken on public property. Just like any surveillance video.


----------



## Groganite

Kid or no kid, daddy wouldve burried these two deep under a log. The difference between a P*ssy with a gun and a man with a gun is the P will pull it out and flash it...The man will point and shoot. Anyone flashing a gun at me on my hunt is asking for an arrow in the neck. -#&#*!-


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Berretta40 said:


> Deformation of character.
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty.
> 
> The OP hung me out to dry, with having motorcycles up there on opening morning ( not the case ), i brandished my firearm ( ye right ), banging the ratchet ( once ). And now, we have a reputation up there. Ye right. Bull****.
> 
> Most of what the OP said is all lies; and it's not appreciated.


Re read the post. I didn't ever say you had your bikes up there on opening morning. I said you had your bikes up there for the second year in a row at the top of the trailhead. A closed traihead. I've got pictures of you 2 years in a row riding right up to the water with a day or two of the season opening. I get that you're not a bowhunter but you've got to be clueless to not know that it has an effect. If you want to argue the semantics about it, I'd be happy to post ALL of your pictures. Frankly at this point, I kind of don't give a shiz.

You guys told me you were going to "check you camera" and by that I assumed you meant pop out the memory card and pop in a new one like most people with cameras. I had no way of knowing before hand that you meant uninstalling and reinstalling a new camera with a socket wrench. Yes, I whispered loud enough that you could hear us that you should check your camera for the cougar that came in on the night of the 14th. It was attempt to be slightly hospitable despite you coming in on our set. And once you guys are within 40 yards of us telling us you'd like to come check your camera, lets be honest, you've already entered the picture, telling you to go pound sand isn't going to help any more than giving you a couple minutes.

And yes, I said that we had had been busted by something when we moved back to the stand after the lightning had passed. And you're right the handful of animals that may have been alerted to our presence probably wouldn't come back in. But we were still actively on our stand. There's more than one group of elk that use that water, and my daughter also has a deer tag for that unit. So just because an elk saw us doesn't mean our hunt is over. And the thing about the talking, is that once you leave, the sound goes with you. The oils and chemical residue from your smoke remains. Right on the trail that the animals use when they feel pressured. If your camera faced the other direction you would know that, but there's probably a pretty good number of pictures you guys get where the elk just appear. Becasue they are entering from directly behind your camera. Right where you were smoking. Right where the last 2 deer had come in from.

I'm not defaming your character. Your character was sitting on a bike directly in front of my camera. That's how the picture came into existance. I don't know what else to tell you other than I have 48 of them over the course of 2 years, all with your mug and your bike in the same spot. As far as the ability to use your picture, I'm a photographer by trade, and I can tell you with authority, that your picture, on public land, doing something you shouldn't be doing (riding a bike off trail) is a matter of public record. I can't sell your picture for profit, but I can post a picture of you using a public space anywhere I see fit.

I'm sorry that your camera has been damaged in the past. It's probably the same person who stole the SD card out of mine last year. As mentioned, I do photography, and the HDSC cards I use are NOT cheap. It's not as much as your camera, and I'm sorry for your loss on that. But it's still a crappy deal.

Look, as I said before. I don't want your apology. I want you to learn from it, and not do the same crap to anyone else. When you ask me "what more do I want from you" that's it. But instead you just keep coming back attacking me for "spreading lies". I'm doing no such thing. There are plenty of people who were quick to identify the Larkin clan, and you two specifically. I'm asking you to realize that if you don't like your reputation, change the behavior that earned it.

Look I get that you're defensive. I posted an inquiry asking for help and then went back to work, and back to my life for a week and the gereal population on here tore you to sheds. I get it.

I'm dropping this conversation, I posted asking for help the first day, and then didn't have time to re check it until yesterday. And in the course of 24 hours your ranting has been nothing short of exhausting. I'm not attacking you. I defended my postition after you came on, guns blazing, about how I'm such a terrible liar, and such. I don't have time for your crap. I don't have time for this negativity anymore. If you want to press the issue further I'm happy to just turn the whole mess over to the appropriate authorities, along with the list of people who have come forward, and let them sort out the details. But I'm done arguing with you about whether or not you behaved like a douchebag.

But I'm done with this. The only thing I've asked of you since I got on here yesterday is to learn from your mistakes, treat your fellow hunters with some decency, and change your behavior. If that's an issue, and you want to continue to sling mud, throw accusations about, and call me names do it by yourself. I'm done with you. And this. Moderators, I'm done, if you want to lock up when I leave, that's just fine.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Oh, but on a side note: A little work on your people skills might go a long way in avoiding future conflict with others. "this guys a freakin liar, I'm sorry good luck with your hunt" is about as convincing an apology as when a politician apologizes for his affair. It's all damage control at that point. A little courtesy from the outset would have gone a LONG ways towards avoiding this whole thing. K. Done. Good luck with your rifle hunt.


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## Berretta40

BradN said:


> "Deformation of character". Hard to defame your character when it is admittedly deformed.


O. Okay.


----------



## Berretta40

WasatchOutdoors said:


> Oh, but on a side note: A little work on your people skills might go a long way in avoiding future conflict with others. "this guys a freakin liar, I'm sorry good luck with your hunt" is about as convincing an apology as when a politician apologizes for his affair. It's all damage control at that point. A little courtesy from the outset would have gone a LONG ways towards avoiding this whole thing. K. Done. Good luck with your rifle hunt.


We all know the truth mr wasatch. You HAVE lied about me brandishing my weapon; your first post showed pics of us there, and was taken by most here the bikes were there on the opener; of which they were not. You DID lie about us banging around with the ratchet, clicking it the whole time. This was a lie; and for you to elaborate on all the above is simply amazing.
Now i have reason to beleive ' our reputation ' is also a lie. I invite you as well as all others to elaborate on this if you will please. Why don't you PROVE yourself here, that our reputation is bad.

I as well as many others on this forum, would like to know. WTH have we done?


----------



## Berretta40

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Too Barretta40 and crew:
> I don't know you from Adam, don't want to quite frankly. I run a business where I talk to a lot of people about hunting every day. Lets just say your self proclaimed inocence is a far cry from what I've heard about you. Yup, it's all hearsay, ...


Spill it then.

What have you heard about us?


----------



## mikevanwilder

Berretta40, no where did he mention you rode your bikes up the trail that day. That is a non issue. The issue is you have been riding your motor bikes on a trail that is closed to motor vehicles. 
For the rest of the stuff that is between you two, no one else on this forum knows what happened for sure.


----------



## Berretta40

WasatchOutdoors said:


> So, after a lot of work to try and help my 14 year old daughter fill her archery tag on an elk, we had our hunt completely ruined for the second year in a row by the same two yahoo's. First off, we are up a trail that is off limits to off road vehicles. This is the second year in a row these guys have been caught on my trail camera on their dirt bikes at the top of the trail. And while that is completely illegal and thoroughly irritating, they went too far this year.
> 
> *What does this tell you all? We were on our bikes that day; that's what it looks like to me.*
> 
> So after we set up our treestand several weeks ago, these two guys set up a trail camera right on top of our site. That's fine, its public land, and they have every right to.
> 
> *Dont remember seeing your camera, while we were setting up. But whatever.*
> 
> But on opening morning, they decided to come check their trail camera at 9:30 am.
> 
> *Oh, another lie i failed to mention.*
> 
> They were kind enough to ask if they could sneak in for "2 minutes" to check their camera. I was irritated but I urged them to hurry and go ahead. SO they walked over to the tree their camera was on, proceeded to unlock the security box it was mounted in, and then pull out a socket wrench. *They unbolted it from the tree, with the socket wrench loudly announcing every time they pulled it back for another turn.*
> 
> *Another lie.*
> 
> Then they proceeded to turn around and ratchet a new camera into a new spot on the tree. Meantime the "gentleman" with the pseudo mullet proceeded to light a cigarette. At this point I spoke out and told them they have got to be kidding me. I asked them if they were bow hunters and understood how the noise and smell they were polluting the area with were wrecking our morning. The guy tells me that they are hunting the rifle season, and that I obviously didn't know which way the wind was blowing. Oh, I did, right to the spot the elk come in from when they are pressured.
> 
> I told them that we were being more than polite, that their hunt wasn't for nearly 2 months, and that they knew full well it was opening morning and that they needed to leave.
> 
> At this point *the dark haired guy lifted the edge of his t-shirt to show the handle of his handgun in the holster and patted the grip then left his hand on it for the remainder of their "visit".* I'm pretty sure that is an open threat in front of a minor.
> 
> *Another lie.*
> 
> Anyway, if anyone knows their name and feels like doing the right thing, I would love to have a name to go along with the face. If they're buddies of yours feel free to let them know that their pictures from riding off road illegally for the last 2 years are being turned into the authorities along with testimony regarding the damage they did to the "no off road travel" sign they ran over with their bikes last year.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they live in Nephi if it helps you either warn them or help turn them in.


The above listed are all lies, and you're telling me they aren't? If you'd like we can all 4 get together and hash this out on the mountain. Looks like the only way so far, to get to the bottom of it. You obviously don't want to admit to it on this forum. No....that might ruin ' your reputation '.


----------



## utahgolf

Now I don't want to start another heated debate but I was wondering if any of the animals using the water hole have 1 eye by chance?


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## WasatchOutdoors

utahgolf said:


> Now I don't want to start another heated debate but I was wondering if any of the animals using the water hole have 1 eye by chance?


Thats some funny stuff right there.

Oh and Beretta. Im done. Continue if youd like but in the words of william shakespear, "methinks the lady doth protest too much"


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## Charina

Berretta40 said:


> If you'd like we can all 4 get together and hash this out on the mountain.


LOL, yeah, that doesn't sound like a person that won't brandish a handgun at the slightest of tensions. A 'man' who has "altercations . . . all the time" wants to hash it out on the mountain, with a 14 year old girl and her father.

You don't have any clue how much you have hurt your own case, do you? Do yourself a favor; don't post so much self incriminating rhetoric and facile arguments. You'll come out better in the end.

"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."


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## Dunkem

WAHOO!! TOP OF THE PAGE.:closed_2: Wow over 15,300 views! Seems we all like to watch a fight dont we:argue:


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## Duckholla

I once heard that it takes 10 "atta-boys" to make up for one "ahhhh-****!"


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## Guest

I know the individuals very well I work as a peace officer. I have never seen these individuals break a law everytime I see them riding they usually go in with no garbage and come out with bags. They have always been on designated trails they also contact the fish and game and the forest service about where they are legal to ride. For how much I know these gentleman I have never seen them committe a crime even when I see them and they don't see me. I for sure know that they are very ethical men and they have high standards for the natural resources. Please if you have any problems with things like this do not put it on blogs contact your local sheriff or fish and game officer. That's why they are here is for people to contact them if situations like this arise.


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## elkhornmadness

I have a cousin in Nephi. I sent him the pic. He recognizes one of the guys and is tracking down the name for you. Maybe next time you should try ranging him, and drawing your bow. Seems like a fair trade....


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## jayo

elkhornmadness said:


> I have a cousin in Nephi. I sent him the pic. He recognizes one of the guys and is tracking down the name for you. Maybe next time you should try ranging him, and drawing your bow. Seems like a fair trade....


Dude, you're like 18 pages late.


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## GaryFish

How is this thing still going on?


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## martymcfly73

GaryFish said:


> How is this thing still going on?


Nothing else to argue about


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## Mr Muleskinner

That is for sure. The Utes are the better team and 7mm has been better for years....:grin:


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## jayo

GaryFish said:


> How is this thing still going on?


Its the most excitement this lame ass site has seen since the lame ass site comment.


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## GaryFish

Mr Muleskinner said:


> That is for sure. The Utes are the better team and 7mm has been better for years....:grin:


Why ya gotta go there? Just drive on over to Whole Foods :EAT: in your Subaru :car: and pick yourself up something nice for dinner :hungry: and calm down a bit. Just keep it under 31.2 kph.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I would rather cruise out to my garden on my John Deere tractor. No Subaru for me.


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## RoosterKiller

Out of curiosity. The brandished weapon wasn't a Berreta 40 by chance was it?


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## Quiethunter

Well this forum died! Went up to check my camera (in the dark) of night. To have respect for wasatch outdoors! What class! Wasatch tried to ripe the camera off the tree and put tape on the lens! The thing he didn't know is we put another camera aimed at that camera, and also put a camera down by the road. So we have pics of you and your license plate! Please leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Thank you.


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## hunting777

wow, now this puts an interesting twist to things. :|:|


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## Mr Muleskinner

If there are no pictures it never happened.


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## Dunkem

eep::behindsofa::spy:


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## Fishrmn

Quiethunter said:


> Well this forum died! Went up to check my camera (in the dark) of night. To have respect for wasatch outdoors! What class! Wasatch tried to ripe the camera off the tree and put tape on the lens! The thing he didn't know is we put another camera aimed at that camera, and also put a camera down by the road. So we have pics of you and your license plate! Please leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Thank you.


Are we sure it was Wasatch Outdoors? Or could it have been someone else who just doesn't like trail cameras?


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## Nambaster

Quiethunter said:


> Well this forum died! Went up to check my camera (in the dark) of night. To have respect for wasatch outdoors! What class! Wasatch tried to ripe the camera off the tree and put tape on the lens! The thing he didn't know is we put another camera aimed at that camera, and also put a camera down by the road. So we have pics of you and your license plate! Please leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Thank you.


Post them pictures up so we can verify it is him.....


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## martymcfly73

Pics or it didn't happen.


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## blackdog

It was probably someone else who doesn't like DBs riding motorcycles on closed trails.


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## martymcfly73

blackdog said:


> It was probably someone else who doesn't like DBs riding motorcycles on closed trails.


Some thing tells me these morons have pissed off more than one person.


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## Quiethunter

Well since we have seen him in person we know it was him, second they/ we have stayed away from any and all hunters and got maps now of where and where not to ride! We are truly sorry about that ten minutes, and openly appologized for it. But we knew that because he lied about a lot of it that he would be the type to vandalize our stuff. I have two cameras that weren't being used so we placed them in places to watch our camera that he knows and where he parks just to be on the safe side. Well I was right! No he didn't break the camera but bent the crap out of the lock box and then put tape over the lens! But the funny part is the tape fell off not 5 min. After! And if he would like to deny it was him besides the pics. Why his camera which is more obvious then ours never got touched. Makes ya think..
Look we don't want a war, it was really bad judgement and lack of knowledge on there part to even go up there but since that day they know to leave it be! Wasatch I am asking for you to please leave our stuff alone and these pics will be deleted, but if not we won't go and trash your stuff but we will turn the pics over to the authorities. They probably won't do anything but at least we will still take the higher road! Carma is a b****. Good luck to all bow hunters and hope all have success this season, including wasatch.


----------



## Quiethunter

And martymcfly73, I will not post him or his daughter like he did to berreta first off and second you all think he BRANISHED his fire arm with out pics. You just assumed that he was telling the truth! So pics will not changed anything! Sad part is I only wish this never happened! And I wasn't even involved with the opening day garbage. On another note its sad that he can't just chock it up to lack of knowledge of the bow hunt and see that they/we acknowledge our mistake and have changed!


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## deljoshua

OP...if you would like me to represent you in settling this on the mountain let me know. It would be my pleasure. -O,-


----------



## Quiethunter

Blackdog, they haven't since a week before opening for one, for two we since got maps and now know where to ride!


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## Quiethunter

Dejoshua? Really? I calmly ask to stop trashing our stuff and you want to what?


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## TEX-O-BOB

Quiethunter said:


> Well this forum died! Went up to check my camera (in the dark) of night. To have respect for wasatch outdoors! What class! Wasatch tried to ripe the camera off the tree and put tape on the lens! The thing he didn't know is we put another camera aimed at that camera, and also put a camera down by the road. So we have pics of you and your license plate! Please leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Thank you.


You're full of CRAP! Dude, the quickest way out of a hole is to quit digging.


----------



## Huge29

Guys, this one is headed for a nose dive. If the childish fighting continues we will just have to lock it down. This has been a good thread in making us all more aware and just downright entertaining, so lets not have it locked please.


----------



## stuckduck

Wow.... 

I agree with ya Tex.... Ya need to put the shovel down.


----------



## Kat3eWhit

you're absolutely right that I should have turned them in a year ago... live and learn.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

Kat3eWhit said:


> you're absolutely right that I should have turned them in a year ago... live and learn.


Please don't let this negative experience ruin your fresh young attitude towards hunting. Not everyone is as unsavory as these clowns. Stay by your dads side and soak up all he has to teach you and you'll be on your way to a long happy careeer as a hunter and outdoors woman.


----------



## Quiethunter

Why the name change op?


----------



## Dahlmer

"Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives."


----------



## deljoshua

Quiethunter,
I think you misunderstood me. I was simply stating that if the op did not have time or did not want his young daughter to have to deal with this...that I, as a calm level headed neutral party, could represent him in the settling this on the mountain thing that he was invited to by your friend. 
"If you'd like we can all 4 get together and hash this out on the mountain. Looks like the only way so far, to get to the bottom of it. You obviously don't want to admit to it on this forum. No....that might ruin ' your reputation '."
I just want everybody to get along...can't we just do that, can't we all just get along???:grin:

Btw I have never been to nephi nor have I ever vandalized anything especially a trail cam.


----------



## Quiethunter

I like you, would love for it to stop! I/we need it to! I know even after seeing the camera we DID NOT retaliate, two wrongs never make a right. I just came on this forum to ask him to stop. I have no other way to contact him. I don't want a fight or for personal property to get damaged. We haves agreed that opening morning was a big mess, and since then have publicly appologized, and haven't interfered with any areas that hunters are even near. I guess I just really am asking nicely to let this be in the past and just move forward and respect each other! PLEASE!


----------



## WasatchOutdoors

Quiethunter said:


> Well this forum died! Went up to check my camera (in the dark) of night. To have respect for wasatch outdoors! What class! Wasatch tried to ripe the camera off the tree and put tape on the lens! The thing he didn't know is we put another camera aimed at that camera, and also put a camera down by the road. So we have pics of you and your license plate! Please leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Thank you.


First off, I'm sorry to hear that someone messed with your camera. We haven't been down there since the opener, because as mentioned very early on, my ex didn't feel safe about me taking her back down.

I'll be the first to tell you that if someone did mess with your camera, you need to post it. Regardless of our exchange on here, no one deserves to have their equipment messed with. If you have pictures of someone legitimately mesing with your camera, post them up. If you have their license plate, seriously, post it up. 
On the other hand if you're just making crap up, I don't care, let it go. I'm so over this. Yes, I'm very dissapointed about the way the hunt went, but at this point, this entire exchange is passed the point of ridicuolus. I don't care enough to mess with your stuff. Heck, if I were going to actually touch your equipment, don't you think I would have the common sense to pack out that ungodly heavy ladder stand first, so I wouldn't have the possibility of running into you again down there after the fact, or worse yet, for someone to retaliate and ruin our equipment? I mean think about it, for just one second... According to you, my camera is still on the tree, unscathed. And yet you think that I messed with yours, and then, left mine sitting there vulnerable to retaliation? How would that make ANY sense?

If someone legitimately touched your stuff, post it up. Put up their license plate that you have pics of. If you have pics of someone literally messing with your camera post it. I'll be the first one to say it's not right for someone to mess with your equipment.

Meantime, as far as the whole fight between you, me and beretta, there is no you, me and beretta. I'm done with this, Its not worth my time. As far as I'm concerned the whole unit is yours, do whatever you want with it..


----------



## Berretta40

WasatchOutdoors said:


> First off, I'm sorry to hear that someone messed with your camera. We haven't been down there since the opener, because as mentioned very early on, my ex didn't feel safe about me taking her back down.
> 
> I'll be the first to tell you that if someone did mess with your camera, you need to post it. Regardless of our exchange on here, no one deserves to have their equipment messed with. If you have pictures of someone legitimately mesing with your camera, post them up. If you have their license plate, seriously, post it up.
> On the other hand if you're just making crap up, I don't care, let it go. I'm so over this. Yes, I'm very dissapointed about the way the hunt went, but at this point, this entire exchange is passed the point of ridicuolus. I don't care enough to mess with your stuff. Heck, if I were going to actually touch your equipment, don't you think I would have the common sense to pack out that ungodly heavy ladder stand first, so I wouldn't have the possibility of running into you again down there after the fact, or worse yet, for someone to retaliate and ruin our equipment? I mean think about it, for just one second... According to you, my camera is still on the tree, unscathed. And yet you think that I messed with yours, and then, left mine sitting there vulnerable to retaliation? How would that make ANY sense?
> 
> If someone legitimately touched your stuff, post it up. Put up their license plate that you have pics of. If you have pics of someone literally messing with your camera post it. I'll be the first one to say it's not right for someone to mess with your equipment.
> 
> Meantime, as far as the whole fight between you, me and beretta, there is no you, me and beretta. I'm done with this, Its not worth my time. As far as I'm concerned the whole unit is yours, do whatever you want with it..


Tell me this then, Mr Wasatch.....

If you haven't been down there since the opener; why has our camera been busted off the tree and stolen, and yours gone as well???


----------



## goonsquad

Post or stfu. Karma is a bitch and you took a chance with public land littering.


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## Berretta40

goonsquad said:


> Post or stfu. Karma is a bitch and you took a chance with public land littering.


You're a class act.


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## RoosterKiller

o-||


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## WasatchOutdoors

Berretta40 said:


> Tell me this then, Mr Wasatch.....
> 
> If you haven't been down there since the opener; why has our camera been busted off the tree and stolen, and yours gone as well???


Maybe I misread his post, but didn't Quiethunter say that they had pictures of someone messing with your camera on the 6th? And at that same time he said that mine was still on the tree. I'm legitimately serious when I say that I haven't been down there since the opener, so if you have someone on your camera messing with it, it's not me. Seriously, post the pictures for one. Secondly contact the Juab County Sherriffs Dept. If they took both your camera and my camera, I'm betting that the sticker price of them together constitutes grand theft. I might not like the exchange we had on opening morning, but messing with another guys equipment is not the way to solve anything.

If your claim is legit, call the sherriffs, file charges, post the pictures on here publicly and turn copies of them over to the sherriff.


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## goonsquad

Berretta40 said:


> You're a class act.


And your a whinny little bitch.


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## WasatchOutdoors

goonsquad said:


> And your a whinny little bitch.


 Hey... totally unnecessary. If someone legitimately took their (and apparently my) camera, they have every right to be upset about it. Let's face it, he and I haven't exactly been chummy, so if their camera gets jacked, who is he naturally going to assume the responsible party is. I totally get it. No name calling required.

That being said, if his claim is legitimate, he really needs to report it. And he probably ought to post the pictures that they alledgedly have on here. I'm thouroughly aware that with us having had a public disagreement on this forum, I will be the first person they talk to. But I also know where I've been, what my schedule is like, and that you would be hard pressed to find 2 minutes of spare time that I haven't been either coaching soccer, at work, in school, or otherwise occupied. I sure as hell don't have time to make any extra trips to nephi, it's not exactly in my neighborhood. I think that's what got me so upset about this thing in the first place, I don't have a lot of time, we don't get many opportunities to get out, so when someone comes along and messes things up, I don't get a second chance to fix it.

Look, if your camera is gone, that sucks. If there's anything I or the other guys on here can do to help you find it, I will gladly volunteer to do so, and I would hope that despite the disagreement, that these guys would as well. Post up the pictures of who was messing with the camera and see if these guys can help you put a name with the face.


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## martymcfly73

goonsquad said:


> And your a whinny little bitch.


Yes this^^^^^ post the info or drop it.


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## 30-06-hunter

Definitely one of those threads that proves there is a serious lack of common sense and respect in the world....


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## pelican

I was able to drink a Mt dew and eat a grilled ham and cheese from lisheys restaurant in Mayfield and read the last five pages while doing it.


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## Dutchman

Well, you know exactly where to find those guys on the rifle hunt! Right in the same place. Why not return the favor on them, and show up on opening morning with a DWR officer and/or sheriff deputy?


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## Nambaster

This thread reminds me of the Hatfields and the McCoys... Let's git it on!!!! :grin:


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## Dunkem

:lalala:


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## Berretta40

WasatchOutdoors said:


> Maybe I misread his post, but didn't Quiethunter say that they had pictures of someone messing with your camera on the 6th? And at that same time he said that mine was still on the tree. I'm legitimately serious when I say that I haven't been down there since the opener, so if you have someone on your camera messing with it, it's not me. Seriously, post the pictures for one. Secondly contact the Juab County Sherriffs Dept. If they took both your camera and my camera, I'm betting that the sticker price of them together constitutes grand theft. I might not like the exchange we had on opening morning, but messing with another guys equipment is not the way to solve anything.
> 
> If your claim is legit, call the sherriffs, file charges, post the pictures on here publicly and turn copies of them over to the sherriff.


Whoever the SOB was that stole the camera; i sure hope they enjoy it because it's sure been a nice one. Hell, we only had it for maybe a week or so; it was brand new.

Usually those that steal other people's property, end up paying for it 10 times over. So, it'll end up being an expensive move on their part.


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## Berretta40

If i can figure out how to put pics on this site, i'll get them up.


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## Berretta40

First of 2 guys that threw our camera on the ground last year.










Please notice the date and time on each of these photos.


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## Berretta40

Second guy. Again, watch the time and date on the pic.

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/members/14346-berretta40-albums-camera-picture2370-second-guy.jpg


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## Berretta40

Second guy grinning and going to our camera.

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/members/14346-berretta40-albums-camera-picture2378-second-guy.jpg


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## Berretta40

And Our camera thrown on the ground, and busted. First of 3 camera's in this area, we've gone through. The 3rd of course, has been stolen.

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/members/14346-berretta40-albums-camera-picture2386-sky-picture.jpg

It is possible these same guys are the theives this year. I do not know for sure, but it is possible. They may also be driving an older white work truck, with an upfit kit similiar to what Questar gas uses.


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## Mr Muleskinner

best thread ever


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## richardjb

One of the longer ones, not one of the best ones!


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## Mr Muleskinner

probably true but having learned today that I am a drama queen I thought I should gravitate towards this type of thing. Isn't that what drama queens do?


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## martymcfly73

Mr Muleskinner said:


> probably true but having learned today that I am a drama queen I thought I should gravitate towards this type of thing. Isn't that what drama queens do?


^^^^^very nice. This made me laugh.


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## sk1

To sum up this thread, this has got to be the worst hunting location I've ever seen. Your cameras must have more two legged critters than anything else.........time for a new spot. Tip: if there are boot tracks and tread marks at this new spot, it's not your new spot.


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## outdoorser

Oh hell here we go again. I thought this thread was finally dried up.


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## chittrchattrbangbang

i think one used to work for professional heating and cooling at one time to berretta40


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## Berretta40

sk1 said:


> To sum up this thread, this has got to be the worst hunting location I've ever seen. Your cameras must have more two legged critters than anything else.........time for a new spot. Tip: if there are boot tracks and tread marks at this new spot, it's not your new spot.


You are correct. This is an everybody hole, as we've learned lately.

No more camera's in this spot for us anymore.


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## WasatchOutdoors

Berretta40 said:


> You are correct. This is an everybody hole, as we've learned lately.
> 
> No more camera's in this spot for us anymore.


It's no trophy spot. It's just a convenient spot for a youth hunter to take a cow. That being said, my daughter is getting old enough that she can handle something a lot more back country than this.


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## KineKilla

:argue:
:deadhorse:


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## blackdog

Berretta40 said:


> If i can figure out how to put pics on this site, i'll get them up.


 Nice pictures from last year. What about the ones your know-it-all buddy claims to have of Wasatch and his license plate from this year? 
He comes on here claiming he has pics of Wasatch destroying his property and knows it's Wasatch because he knows what he looks like, then you post pics from last year??? WTF??? I think you're both full of crap.


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