# Situation ramificatons - conjecture



## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

Ok, I'm returning to my tent trailer/truck (like blue lake) and I see some folks breaking into my stuff and I'm packing a 22 cal. pistol and I fire off some shots in the general direction of the offenders and I accidentally hit one/or more with minor/critical injuries. What are my legal consequences? Yeah. I know, but this is a real situation that could happen and I just don't know what my legal rights are. :?


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

All I know is that your life would change and never be the same again.
It's not worth it to me.


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## Ton_Def (Dec 23, 2008)

Legally. You'd lose. Been there, done that. No judge will rule in favor of violence over property in a public space. I know, I know, sounds wrong. But think about it, logically. Not worth your time and money defending the case. Just buy new stuff. It is the world we live in...


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

Leaky just not worth it...if anything you shoot you best make sure you kill the individual(s). Oh and I doubt a .22 will be any type of firepower for what them low-lifes out there will probably be packing...NOT WORTH IT!!! The soft water will be here soon...if anything take a trip down to Lake Powell and don't even allow yourself to get into a Blue-Lake situation...again not worth it IMHO.


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## wshiwsfshn (May 9, 2008)

Ton_Def said:


> Legally. You'd lose. Been there, done that. No judge will rule in favor of violence over property in a public space. I know, I know, sounds wrong. But think about it, logically. Not worth your time and money defending the case. Just buy new stuff. It is the world we live in...


Actually, correct me if I a, wrong, but the castle law was extended to vehicles also.

Either way, when do we stand up for non-criminal rights and say enough is enough instead of hiding out hoping these problems will go away. I am personally tired of seeing people say it's not worth the legal fight" or the little guy will never win, I could go on and on. At some point, the only way these things are going to stop, is if we stop them ourselves.

Sorry for the soap box, and I am a law abiding citizen, but if I came up on that scenario, I would just make sure I had a shovel handy, because I am sick of the law abiding being pushed around.


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## wshiwsfshn (May 9, 2008)

Sorry, the wording of our castle doctrine sucks bad enough, you would probably end up in jail.

So I would revert to the 3'S situation.

Shoot! Shovel! and Shutup!


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## Dagwood (May 12, 2010)

It is my understanding that use of lethal force is legal in Utah if it is used to prevent a 'Forcible Felony'. Robbery and burglary are both forcible felonies and you would be in your legal right to use force to prevent these crimes to defend your home. Remember the guy who shot and killed the burglar through the sliding glass door last summer? No charges were filed against him.

However, things change when it comes to a vehicle. The law states:
"76-2-402 2(c) Burglary of a vehicle, defined in Section 76-6-204, does not constitute a forcible felony except when the vehicle is occupied at the time unlawful entry is made or attempted."

So there you go. If the vehicle is empty and you start shooting, you are going to jail. 

Honestly though, even if it is legal you will likely go to jail and spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a legal defense just to prove your innocence. It's not worth it


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## wshiwsfshn (May 9, 2008)

It's not worth it. I agree fully, but when do WE put a stop to this behavior and take back what was ours to begin with.


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

I already pretty well knew the answer before hand. Just thought I'd ask anyway since this is a real situation at Blue Lake. :evil: However, while approaching my truck, I might give em a big yell and fire into the air. Even this is probably unwise.  Best idea - don't go to Blue Lake!!! When calling for the law, have you ever tried getting any real identifying info. from a ratty old pick up w/o a license plate or at least one that you can read as it speeds off to who knows where. Chances are they wouldn't head to Wendover, and if they did, at least not for a while. The best you could do would be to file a report with the police at Wendover and it would go in the big stack of other reports that would result in nothing but venting your spleen and a basis for an insurance claim after your deductible if you have ins.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Here is an idea.
Let's get a bunch of us toghther and go out to Blue Lake.
Half will fish and the other half will steal everything back from the bandetos, while they are looking through our empty decoy vehichles. O*-- O*-- O*-- :rotfl: -*|*- <<--O/ <<--O/ --\O O|* O|*


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## wshiwsfshn (May 9, 2008)

Unfortunately since you are a law abiding citizen, you will be the one arrested.


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## fish1on (Jan 12, 2009)

I am game for a group outing. I could sit in the parking lot and scare 99% of the folks away!


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## wyoguy (Mar 4, 2010)

Grandpa D said:


> Here is an idea.
> Let's get a bunch of us toghther and go out to Blue Lake.
> Half will fish and the other half will steal everything back from the bandetos, while they are looking through our empty decoy vehichles. O*-- O*-- O*-- :rotfl: -*|*- <<--O/ <<--O/ --\O O|* O|*


Let me know when you are going.


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

Grandpa D,
Ya know what, I've been letting your comment "settle" and I'm willing to participate in something like that. Problem- they ain't got nothing to take from their old run down trucks/cars. Some kind of sting, call the sheriff/police/911 and hold em there at gun point? Probably still too dicey? Anyway, I'm up for it. :twisted: I have a truck and tent trailer and am willing to stay over nigh, maybe longer with the Sparkinator. Yeah, I know, us law abiding folks Just are toooooooooo smart to do a dumb thing like that with the possible bad consequences. Just not worth it.  But I'm old and what do I have to lose, must make a mark for the common good ! But ya know, it might have an impact, at least in the media. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Viva La little guy.


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## poiboy (Nov 18, 2010)

Personally, if a place that you fish at is so well known for criminal activity, why fish it at all? But yea, I agree with everyone who says it ain't worth it.


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

poiboy.
Of course you're right. That's why I haven't been there in years and don't intend to, unless,----------, maybe a sting? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## wshiwsfshn (May 9, 2008)

That's part of the problem. We just rollover and give up when bad stuff happens. I for one would like to take back the fishing without worry out there. I would also like to take back the ability to protect myself and my belongings without fear of being prosecuted for doing so.


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## KennyC (Apr 28, 2010)

Here is an idea. We all get together like GradpaD said convoy out with as many trucks as we can muster. Some fish, some stand guard and the rest go take the wheels off their trucks and leave them on blocks. Once we are done (what ever time that maybe) have a nice cook out and pack up with the wheels and go home. It is really hard to steal when you can't get away. Plus it would be a great laugh. Just incase they are packin little pistols we take rifles and shotguns.


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## scott_rn (Sep 11, 2007)

Fred,

There was thread a couple of years ago about a couple of guys who got back to the truck and some kid on an atv was cleaning it out. The lit up the atv with an AR or something and the kid lied to his parents about what happened - it didn't go well legally and they never did anything to the kid.

I don't see the law being on your side on this one. Sorry.

Scott


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Leaky.... just don't go. Tubedude told me about some guys who ran a "bandito" off the road and beat the hell outta him, but that definitely seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I agree with the others that its not worth it, especially when you have your honey holes to the north that treat you well. Personally, I think a sniper in the rocks above the ponds is the way to go if you're going to "sting" anyone out there, but then I'm hotheaded and usually don't offer the best advice about things like that. As far as the bad guys go, normally they just take what is visible in your vehicle right? So... if you don't leave anything, or stash what you do have in the weeds, then you won't have to worry about your vehicle right? I don't ever recall hearing anyone talk about vehicles themselves being stolen or messed with... just valuables that were easy to quickly grab.


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## HighLakesDrifter (Sep 13, 2007)

I've been there twice (once in 08 and once in 09). I went in February, and on a Tuesday. I left my truck unlocked after reading about the place. The first trip, someone else was fishing the big lake for about an hour - I had five hours alone on it. The next time, I had it to myself the whole time. If I ever go back, I'll go mid-week again, not leave anything of value in the truck, and leave it unlocked so some varmint doesn't break a window to find out that nothing of value is there.


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