# Archery deer and elk hunt opening day



## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

What does everybody think about the two hunts opening on the same day. I have different views, for one if you hunt deer on the Pahvant or the Monroe it could be really good down there because I think there will be less hunters because most of the hunters are going to put their selves in position to kill either. But also for myself that waits to hunt elk the last two weeks of the hunt its going to be harder because these poor elk are going to be ran ragged when that time comes around. And for some areas that don't see many people tell the elk hunt starts is going to be hit hard that opening weekend, so I think its a very bad Idea. I think the Manti, Wasatch, and Nebo Units is going to be a mad house for the first week.


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## archery (Sep 7, 2007)

Well as for the pahvant, which i just happen to have an elk tag for. it is always a mad house on the archery opener. i have guided three people there the past three years and it is crazy near any road or four wheeler trail. funny thing is if you get a mile from them you don't see anyone. one thing i have noticed many times in reference to your statements. is in areas that have lots of traffic on roads and main trails, the animals tend to get very used to that and only react if you do something they are not used to. i have hunted several areas that this was the case. it will be interesting to see how this common opener affects the animals in areas where it is not the norm.


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

I agree about the Pahvant, once you get off the road 1/2 a mile or so your in great shape, but I think the numbers of people are going to drop down there.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

The state will be a zoo on the opener. Worse thing that has been pushed through in a long time. Miss the final week for the elk and that seems to be the best hunting anyway. Not anymore i guess.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

I am exited for the dual opener. I see elk all the time on the first couple of days of the deer hunt. Then after that they hide from me really well for about 2 months. :evil: It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

I love the idea. It is going to be so nice to take my LE bull and my buck at the same time.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

I know everyone has had shots before the opener while chasing deer. But the elk were not being hunted. You are in for a big suprise and not a good one.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> You are in for a big suprise and not a good one


Maybe but not really worried about it. I do not normaly hunt the last week of the elk hunt anyways. It just works out better for me. I am more worried about sticking a bull with that high success rate of the north cache unit.


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## Broadside Shot (Oct 4, 2007)

Hogan,

What makes the elk hunt better in the last week versus the first week for spikes and cows (just curious)? I look forward to the any bull hunt this year when the elk are watering more regular and still in there summer patterns.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

A few reasons 

1- the spikes are still with the heard so if you want to shoot a spike be prepared to hunt the whole heard.

2-They are not always in their fall grounds by then. I hear you on the summer pattern but everywhere I hunt it benefits me for fall patterns. Still the elk need water even in cooler weather.

3-Cooler and the elk are more active during that last week.

4- Way less people. 

5-Cows are no big deal they just are grouped together (sometimes heards of 300) and summer areas which makes things tougher.

The ones that like this idea think they will tag out because they always have had shots, but the elk were not being hunted, that is why they have had shots. Opener was pretty crowded and bad as it was. This year you will be lucky to find a camping spot let alone a solitaire place to hunt.


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

I have mixed feelings. Would love see the bow hunt back in the rut, but hunting the same time is definitely a benefit. Either way, we are still HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Life is good!


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

The way I look at it is this way the hunters will thin out faster because all of the vacation days will be used up on the first week. Where last year you really had 2 opening weekends. Just like you hogan I can wait out the crowds because they will dwindle.


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## Broadside Shot (Oct 4, 2007)

A few reasons

1- the spikes are still with the heard so if you want to shoot a spike be prepared to hunt the whole heard. That's how most people hunt elk anyways. Is there a different way to hunt spikes later in the season? Everyone chases bugles and the herd, I don't know of anyone that is hunting elk who hears an elk and goes the other way.

2-They are not always in their fall grounds by then. I hear you on the summer pattern but everywhere I hunt it benefits me for fall patterns. Still the elk need water even in cooler weather. I agree they need water year round but it is my opionion that as the elk get closer to the rut they become more upredictable, don't get me wrong I want to hunt elk in the rut but for a spike or a cow it just a meat hunt for me and I would perfer an animal that give me a great shot at a water hole that having to make a quick shot as he is running around.

3-Cooler and the elk are more active during that last week. I can see cooler, I like that, but less patternable though

4- Way less people. Not necessarily I hunt both elk and deer but that doesn't make more people on the mountain. I think the majority of people hunt both elk and deer, this way maybe a buck lives because someone is chasing and elk or vice versa, just speculation

5-Cows are no big deal they just are grouped together (sometimes heards of 300) and summer areas which makes things tougher. Sounds similiar to comment #1, not sure I agree on tougher

The ones that like this idea think they will tag out because they always have had shots, but the elk were not being hunted, that is why they have had shots. Opener was pretty crowded and bad as it was. This year you will be lucky to find a camping spot let alone a solitaire place to hunt. I don't think there are 10,000 archery deer hunters and 10,000 archery elk hunter I think they are the same people. I might even spead out people more, depends on what they are hunting


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

After the spikes get booted from the herd they are an easy target. That does not happen until that last week. They are dying for any type of company and have had them come running in as far as 1000 yards. 2 or 3 spikes hanging out are much easier to get on than 30-40 elk. JMHO. How are things anyway Jerry?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I figure if I don't punch either tag this year, it'll give me one more excuse. :lol:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Personally, I really like the idea. I always buy both tags and usually hunt from treestands over waterholes and/or mineral licks and/or wallows. Deer and elk both come in so I'll take my first best shot at what's there. As far as elk hunters vs deer hunters, most hunters are like me and hunt both. And because the areas I hunt have both deer and elk habitat, they are pretty much intermingled. Additionally, I don't think the elk knew they were are not being hunted earlier by all those deer hunters. If they see people sneaking around in the woods, they boogie just like the deer and just like they've always done. The same goes visa versa. A lot of people suddenly in the woods makes them nervous, no matter what the people are hunting.

We're at the top of the food chain because we can use our brains better than any other species. We'll come up with ways to adjust to this new schedule and we may find that we like it better. In any case, we ain't gonna stop hunting, are we?

This forum is a perfect place to share ideas on how to adjust! Here's one idea you treestand or ground blind hunters might try. I use turkey decoys to calm down the animals and to draw their attention away from me. They know turkeys don't tolerate unusual
noise and movement, so if they see turkeys around, everything is cool, man. Hint, wash and handle the decoys like you would your clothing. Does it work? 2005 - 335" P&Y 6 point bull on Zion unit on Dixie Natl Forest land. Last year "my" 170" buck went nocturnal on me, (He was being hunted by at least two other guys I knew of.), but plenty of does and smaller bucks came in during the day without batting an eye. I'll get him this year!

Have a fun and safe hunt! We'll see you in the field, or NOT!


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

There are other people on the elk hunt? Wow, I don't think I have ever seen anyone. Where do you guys hunt in the Wal-mart parking lot?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> After the spikes get booted from the herd they are an easy target. That does not happen until that last week. They are dying for any type of company and have had them come running in as far as 1000 yards. 2 or 3 spikes hanging out are much easier to get on than 30-40 elk. JMHO. How are things anyway Jerry?


I have had spikes come running from 1000 yards in JULY, spikes are the DUMBEST animal in the hills, if you need that five day window, which changes from year to year, the season dates are the least of your worries. :?


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## NoShot (Nov 23, 2007)

The spikes get booted from the herd?(wth?) :rotfl: I can't even begin to count the number of times I've gotten into "rutting" mature bulls and their harems with spike bulls in the group, from Aug thru Oct..

It boils down to most hunters are lazy, get away from the road by 1/2 mile and you'll be hunting undisturbed game anyway, whether is Aug 16, or Sept 6..


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

So you are saying spikes do not get kicked out of the herd???? :lol: 

Do you even elk hunt?


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## NoShot (Nov 23, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> So you are saying spikes do not get kicked out of the herd???? :lol:
> 
> Do you even elk hunt?


By your comment, I might wonder if you hunt elk during the rut..
How do you explain these examples, '07, Current Creek area, got to calling with a 350-360 class 6pt, when he and his "group" come out to the edge of the clearing, he was with 9 other elk, 5 cows and 4 spikes..??? I'm pretty sure for that area, he was one of the more dominant bulls.. (Sept 12).

'06, Strawberry area, following some bugling, finally got to a more open area, and could see the smallish 5pt doing the calling along with, I would say 40 cows and *NINE* spikes in the group..?? The second to the last day of the Archery season.

'05 New Mexico, Was calling in a 318 1/8" 6pt(I had him scored) had I think maybe 15 cows or so, and with those cows was 2 spikes and a 2x2. the date was Sept 19.

I could continue,,


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

I have harvested 9 spikes not one of those spikes were with a mature bull or a cow. All nine were shot the last week of the hunt, and were either solo or accompanied by another spike. I don't think the herd bull will tolerate a spike servicing his hot cow. They all don't get kicked out but during the peak most do.


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## NoShot (Nov 23, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> I have harvested 9 spikes not one of those spikes were with a mature bull or a cow. All nine were shot the last week of the hunt, and were either solo or accompanied by another spike. I don't think the herd bull will tolerate a spike servicing his hot cow. They all don't get kicked out but during the peak most do.


To be honest with ya Hogan, I've killed 6 spikes here in Utah and they were all killed with in the first week of the hunt(late Aug to Labor day)(go figure  ) With hunting spikes and cows I've never put any faith in the rut, cause spikes don't really rut. :wink: But as Pro said, they'll come to a call anytime. As far as them getting kicked out of the herds, I don't agree. I think of it as this, your the 25 year old guy in a room full of 19 year olds gals, with a couple of 12-14 year old boys, how worried are you? (unless all those gals are wanting to become teachers) :shock: ) THAT was a joke....

So, to answer the first post question, as an archery only hunter for now 17 years, Why I don't like the deer and spike hunt combined, is for that last week lost of Bowhunting Elk(don't start on you got that back at the first,or I could hunt open bull debate). Now having drawn an LE Elk tag this year, YYEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

“I think of it as this, your the 25 year old guy in a room full of 19 year olds gals, with a couple of 12-14 year old boys, how worried are you?”

LOL best analogy yet. 

Hogan don’t take this to hard but if you have killed 9 spikes it sounds like you are the expert and won’t have a problem killing a spike bull 5 days earlier.

I like the idea of the hunts starting on the same day. I don’t think it will be any more crowded than it already is on opening morning. Hunt during the week or hunt farther in and it won’t ever be a problem. 

I actually hope it makes it harder to kill a spike “but I doubt it will” this way we will have more branch antlered bulls and be able to release more tags in those units.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> I don't think the herd bull will tolerate a spike servicing his hot cow.


There's only one flaw to this reasoning Hogan, Spike bulls are NOT sexually mature. Therefor they don't do any of the breeding. This is why bigger bulls tend to let them hang with the herd. I personally have seen both scenarios. Spikes with the herd until late in the rut, and spikes all alone and easy to call. I don't think the rut and bigger bulls have anything to do with where you'll find spike bulls at any given time. Some are with the herd and some are not.

This state has ALWAYS been a fricken ZOO opening weekend. Opening
day+roads+wheelers+screaming idiots with archery equipment=*ZOO!* That's why I choose to hunt after the screaming idiots on their wheelers have all gone home and gone back to work. :wink:

And, besides that, this state has _never_ been geared towards hunting elk during the heat of the rut unless you have a gimmy LE rifle tag. This state has been geared towards hunting elk in the heat of the SUMMER, not the rut. Armed with that thought, a smart hunter will find the water and sit and wait. opening the archery hunt with the deer is only going to up the odds that you'll kill one on a water hole. If you want to hunt rutting bulls during the prime time, go to another state.


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## lv2hnt (May 23, 2008)

Every opener is crazy. I have actually had some of my best success on the opener because it pushes the animals off the beaten path. It is really only crazy for all of the Road Hunters. I think if you get off the roads you will find great success. I hunted the Manti last year for 12 straight days and never saw one other hunter in the field, but saw several on ATV's riding the roads.


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