# 533yrd elk shot



## huntinco (Sep 23, 2007)




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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I am amazed by guys that know how to shoot like that. I dont know how effective I'd be past 300 yards


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

Nice shot. Do you know what he was shooting? A guy we cow elk hunted with this last Jan has been practicing at 1200 yards on cantalopes. He took his cow , Standing toward us, right between the eyes at 1023 yards . Its amazing what these new rifles are doing. He shoots a .338-378 Weatherby.


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## wapiti67 (Oct 2, 2007)

I won't hunt with people who takes shots like this..


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

STEVO said:


> Nice shot. Do you know what he was shooting? A guy we cow elk hunted with this last Jan has been practicing at 1200 yards on cantalopes. He took his cow , Standing toward us, right between the eyes at 1023 yards . Its amazing what these new rifles are doing. He shoots a .338-378 Weatherby.


.......amazing :roll:


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

STEVO said:


> Nice shot. Do you know what he was shooting? A guy we cow elk hunted with this last Jan has been practicing at 1200 yards on cantalopes. He took his cow , Standing toward us, right between the eyes at 1023 yards . Its amazing what these new rifles are doing. He shoots a .338-378 Weatherby.


Cool video.

My son-in-law has a .338-378 Weatherby and I have shot it many times at the range, just amazing. I witness him kill elk at very long ranges.

My "big" magnum days are on hold until I get Lazik eye surgery.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

amzing all right, why wear camo? That is not hunting, that is crap. I always enjoy your videos Justin and will always have the upmost respect for you and your outfit, but that is crap. If they made it possible to shoot from your own yard so you would not even have to leave the house would you? This video is bad, I can shoot 150 yards with my bow, thay does not mean that I ever will @ live game.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

What are the details on his gun?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I think some people have better shooting skills than others, and we shouldn't call it unethical if someone can make very good shots at 500 plus yds. 

I killed a cow elk a few years ago at 550yds. I hit her in the front shoulder, and she fell down where she was standing.

My Dad built a gun where he can shoot milk jugs at 1,000 yds.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Without question there are some amazing marksmen out there who practice religously.....but milk jugs don't move and breathe.

Respect the game your hunting. Shooting big game from over a 1/4 mile is not hunting.....


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Respect the game your hunting. Shooting big game from over a 1/4 mile is not hunting.....


But that is only your opinion.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

the exact reason why I took up archery...rifle hunting is fish in a barrel if you have the right equipment and practice at all...


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Respect the game your hunting. Shooting big game from over a 1/4 mile is not hunting.....
> 
> 
> But that is only your opinion.


I would fair to guess that this is over 75% of hunters opinion, and 95% of the publics opinion.


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## captain (Nov 18, 2007)

I personally wouldn't shoot anything over 300 yards, but I am not a real great shot, nor do I have the rifle these guys have. I think the thing we need to realize is that technology is changing. If you would have talked to someone 50 years ago they would have called 300 yards on the boarder of unethical. Technology changes. The loads have improved, scopes have improved, even the rifles themselves are better than what they were 20 years ago. While I feel that anything over 450 yard is unethical with a standard fire arm, I do believe that if someone has the equipment, and the skills to shoot that far, go for it.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

I don't think the debate is over whether or not it was an ethical kill...the video obviously would lead me to think that the animal died humanely. The debate is whether or not it can even be considered hunting at that point or if we should just call it shooting instead.
At that distance you don't have to worry about scent, noise, movement, etc. They could have just been playing cards and drinking whiskey and coke and a dude picks up a rifle and kills something. In my opinion, you can't call that hunting...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you are worried about about scent, noise, movement, etc then any shot over 50-100 yards is not hunting. But that is where archery and muzzle loader hunts are a lot more challenging. But then you get into the debate of the weapons and sights. I believe that a primitive weapon hunt should be just that. No optics on the weapon if a muzzle loader along with no sight pins on the bow or a rangefinder. I myself have taken one shot at a range that I wondered about. That morning there was no wind in the canyon that I was in and there was no way to get closer to the elk that I had spotted. Should of I waited for another elk to show up? Maby, but I took the shot anyway and hit him twice and both shots were killing shots. This it the type of debate that will go on forever with no clear winner in anyones eyes


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

Love how they have the family mutt with em on the hill, probably had to carry it up the hill. Put this scenario on it.....gust of wind on other side of canyon it just enough to lead bullet low into front leg, bull high tails it over the ridge never to be seen again. It'd take you half a day to get to where that bull was from where those guys were sitting, even longer if they had to take the pooch with em, no way in hell you'd ever find it.

Disrespectful in my book. The fact is hunting gets a bad name for this


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

I love how many act as if their opinions are fact. If you take the time to practice and can make the shot, more power to you, it is not my place to tell someone else how they should or shouldn't hunt.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

honkerfool said:


> Put this scenario on it.....gust of wind on other side of canyon it just enough to lead bullet low into front leg, bull high tails it over the ridge never to be seen again. It'd take you half a day to get to where that bull was from where those guys were sitting, even longer if they had to take the pooch with em, no way in hell you'd ever find it.
> 
> Disrespectful in my book. The fact is hunting gets a bad name for this


I spend hours every summer shooting prairie dogs up to 600 yards. I've killed dozens over 400 yards even when the wind is blowing 10-20 mph. Typically anything under 300 yards is a 1 shell kill in all conditions. I have the equipment and practice enough to shoot an animal the size of a pop can at those ranges. Is it disrespectful for me with the right equipment to take an elk at the same range that has a vital area the size of 10 prairie dogs?

95% of the guys that are hunting elk should never attempt that shot, but for the guys that practice long range shooting and have the appropriate equipment it is an ethical shot, more so than a guy that hasn't shot his rifle in a year and sights it in on the way to his hunt. It is those guys that give hunting a bad name.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

To add to toasty's post, I know guys that shouldn't shoot over 50 yards and they attempt 200 yard shots every year. Same with archery, I know people that shouldn't shoot past 30 yards and shoot out to 70 yards, but yet we bitch and get mad at these folks who can actually make that shoot. Maybe some of your guys anger should be pointed in the right direction, just a thought.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

Thats kind of comparing apples to oranges. Praire dogs are so small (especially at those distances) you either hit it or not, and if you do just "graze" it you'll obliterate it no matter what. All that elk has to do is take a step or move just a bit within the time your brain tells you to pull the trigger and the bullet to get to the animal, and you could end up hittin him in a non vital area, sending him into the next zip code before you can get your bearings and crack off another shot at him, this time while he is moving and probably increasing its distance from you.

Not saying its not possible or you can't do it consistantly or you can't get the equipment to do it possible, but there are too many variables that increase your chances of wounding an animal. Not worth the chance to me. Its funny how people turn hunting into a pissin match of who can kill animals the farthest way.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

I would never take a shot like that honker, but I am just saying some can make those shots. The reason I don't take those shots are a lot of the reasons you laid out.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

What most people fail to look at with this kind of killing power is that the more deadly we make our weapons and the longer ranges that we shoot, as a whole the number of animals killed per number of hunters raises. With a finite number of animals the only option the controlling agencies (fish & game) have is to limit hunter numbers which means limited opportunity, and in my opinion a real threat to the future of the sport. If you think you are a goood shot, go shoot at Nationals at Camp Perry and see how you do.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

A lot of bad things can happen on a 25 yard shot on a deer with a bow. I watched an antelope at 30 yards jump an arrow once. The things pointed out are the same things for any weapon at any range. 

The guy had obviously practiced long range shooting, knew his ballistics, and dropped the bull with one shot. Instead of admiring his skill and the work he did to accomplish the task, he gets called out as unethical. If someone spends the time and money to learn to shoot long range, his criticism would quickly be replaced by praise.

It has nothing to do with who shoots the furthest, it has everything to do with practice, ability, equipment, and knowledge. I would take that shot in a second, of course I spend a lot of hours a week shooting long range and have practiced a shot like that hundreds of times.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

it's not hunting...it's shooting...just like when I go meat hunting for does with a rifle...I don't even refer to it as hunting...it's shooting...the doe deer doesn't stand a chance against me with a rifle anywhere under 300yds...
so call a spade a spade...the guy in the video was shooting a bull elk...not hunting it...
have some respect for the animal and make it somewhat challenging on yourself...


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

> A lot of bad things can happen on a 25 yard shot on a deer with a bow. I watched an antelope at 30 yards jump an arrow once. The things pointed out are the same things for any weapon at any range.


You couldn't have said it any better. My point exactly, the odds are stacked against you from the get go, the more you increase distance, the more that can go wrong.



> It has nothing to do with who shoots the furthest, it has everything to do with practice, ability, equipment, and knowledge. I would take that shot in a second, of course I spend a lot of hours a week shooting long range and have practiced a shot like that hundreds of times.


I have no doubt you could hit a target at those ranges. But practicing on milk jugs, pop cans and silhouettes isn't the same.

*In my opinion*.... your responsibility as a hunter is to kill that animal with the least risk of wounding it and losing it. Anytime you pull crap like that, and i don't care if you're a ex sniper from the military, your increasing that risk. You owe respect to that animal. Now where is that line to be drawn? To each his own, but when it turns into a game of "lets make a really long shot and put it on you tube" instead of lets go out an harvest an animal........you know where i'm goin with it


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Wait...wait...whats all this talk about practice? I was watching the "Best of the West" and all you have to do is buy one of those Huskemaw scopes and rifle setups. Range....dial....shoot...dead critter.....just that easy! Meat in the pot. Bring the wife, kids, dog and shoot from 1/2 mile away! CALL NOW! -/|\- 

Paper plates, milk jugs, deer, elk....whats the difference....right?? o-||


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

stablebuck said:


> the exact reason why I took up archery...rifle hunting is fish in a barrel if you have the right equipment and practice at all...


I beg to differ on this..... Alot of people play basketball and practice for years, that doesn't make them team material at any level. My brother is an army sniper and he has been sharing his knowledge with a few of our family and friends. We have been shooting long distances for over 10 years. We have found that some of us have what it takes and other don't. Some of the group can shoot well beyond 1200 and hold very nice groups. It's all about talent.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

honkerfool said:


> Put this scenario on it.....gust of wind on other side of canyon it just enough to lead bullet low into front leg, bull high tails it over the ridge never to be seen again.


This where lack of knowledge breeds uninformed opinions and comments. If you study any ballistics at all you will find that 85% to 90% of the effect of the wind on a bullet happens in the first 100 to 200 yards. If you know what you are doing then by all means take the shot.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> it's not hunting...it's shooting...just like when I go meat hunting for does with a rifle...I don't even refer to it as hunting...it's shooting...the doe deer doesn't stand a chance against me with a rifle anywhere under 300yds...
> so call a spade a spade...the guy in the video was shooting a bull elk...not hunting it...
> have some respect for the animal and make it somewhat challenging on yourself...


But it's only your opinion. It's not a fact. Hunting is hunting and yes when you're hunting with a rifle then you will be "shooting" at the animal. Your also "shooting" an arrow with your bow.

Good hell, it's always about archers are hunters and rifle hunters aren't hunting but only shooting on this forum. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

honkerfool said:


> You owe respect to that animal. Now where is that line to be drawn? To each his own, but when it turns into a game of "lets make a really long shot and put it on you tube" instead of lets go out an harvest an animal........you know where i'm goin with it


I agree. Taking the best possible shot on an animal is the ethical thing to do. However, knowing how to shoot long range could be the difference in tag soup or a trophy animal. I always hope to have an easy shot, but it doesn't always end up that way. I've shot 7 big game animals, the longest shot was 280 yards and the shortest was 25 yards with a bow. Hopefully I'll never have to take a long shot, but if I ever have to reach out, I will be ready.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Good hell, it's always about archers are hunters and rifle hunters aren't hunting but only shooting on this forum. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I agree CS. It seems to be the case lately. If you want me to throw some fuel into the fire here it goes: What is up with all those folks that sit with their *BOW* in a blind or a tree stand waiting for a deer to come by? That's not hunting that's shooting a poor deer that happens to be unlucky enough to come by. -O|o- -BaHa!-


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

MadHunter said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> > > Good hell, it's always about archers are hunters and rifle hunters aren't hunting but only shooting on this forum. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...


Oh man thats irony there! You make an excellent point there CS


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> But it's only your opinion. It's not a fact. Hunting is hunting and yes when you're hunting with a rifle then you will be "shooting" at the animal. Your also "shooting" an arrow with your bow.


I understand it is my opinion...and anyone who wants to debate the matter over what is more sporting (using a bow, muzzleloader, or rifle) is more than welcome to discuss it on this discussion forum. 8) Who would want to be part of a "fact forum"??? I *personally think* killing animals from long distances is not as cool as killing them up close...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

stablebuck said:


> killing animals from long distances is not as cool as killing them up close...


I have the same problem and that is why I hunt them both ways. They both have their advantage.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I personally think killing animals from long distances is not as cool as killing them up close...


I personally think it's cool killing them from a wheelchair which is actually more of a challenge. :O•-: :O•-:


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

> I personally think it's cool killing them from a wheelchair which is actually more of a challenge.


Coyoteslayer has a **** good point!! You're a stud.

I guess I've held back from jumping in long enough. As many of you know, I'm a long-range shooter, (and I hunt with a longbow...huh?!). I've had some long-range instruction through the U.S. Air force and am an accomplished shooter. Not the best by far but pretty good. I'm also a big fan of showing discretion when taking a shot at an animal. I'm also a proponent of long range hunting shots...IF YOU CAN DO IT. If not, then you have no business shooting outside your gun's point-blank range.
Any shots outside your point-blank range needs to be calculated and most shooters don't know what I mean by calculated shot let alone how to do it.
Here's how you can determine how far you should shoot. This is the Carlos Hath**** method. If you hunt with a wind meter, rangefinder and an ExBal program like I do, then use them. Go out once a day and pick a target at unknown distances and shoot at it. If you miss, too bad. No more shots that day. Soon you'll be taking more time with each shot, checking the wind, marage, and hitting more often, BUT, more importantly, after a while you'll find out how far you can hit something on the first shot every time, thereby establishing your outer shooting limit.
I have no problem with longrange shots while hunting. I have a big, big problem with long-range shots by hunters who aren't capable of such shots.
The only thing that pisses me off more is the Ethics Police that pop off about things they know nothing about...kinda like anti-hunters and anti long range shooters.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

I've been told that long range shooting is only for those hunters that have no sneak!  

Nevertheless, like has been mentioned, for those used to shooting prarie dogs or rock chucks at those extreme ranges an elk looks as big as a barn door. If you're not confident in your ability to make a shot at any range don't take it.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Hunting has gone many different directions and to each his own. I love archery and was a bit bummed when I talked to a guy who had a Goat tag and he wasn't going to use his bow. He had just bought a 338 Lapua from Christiensen arms and was set up for some long range stuff. He said "No I am not using my bow. I am using my 338. If I walk over a hill and see a Goat, I will range him. If he is under 700 yards, I will go back until he is at 700 yards and then I will shoot him". This long range stuff has gotten big. I haven't collected my thoughts on it entirely but I don't feel that I am a good judge on it either way until I know more about it. From what I have seen, the trophy is not just in the animal but in the shot! Many don't like Lion hunting because you can shoot a quiver full of arrows and go back to camp for more. That part of hunting is not wrong...........the hunt is in the "chase" not the shot. 
Like my good buddy "Uncle Ted" say's, "If it is LEGAL then don't fight fellow hunters on it. We have the anti's to fight and contend with so we as hunters need to stay united."


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Well said Elk22........ we have enough to contend with against the antis. UNITED WE MUST STAND!!!


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## wapiti67 (Oct 2, 2007)

Ok CS...you keep saying "that's your opinion" well, my opinion is that taking these kinds of shots is unethical! Now, what makes your opinion anymore valid then mine?


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Kevin D said:


> I've been told that long range shooting is only for those hunters that have no sneak!


I agree Kevin. By far, the biggest and the most satisfying shots are when you've sneaked up and taken an animal that's totaly unaware of your presence. I'm talking any bow at any range. Of course the closer the better.
Taking a well calculated longrange shot with a rifle is satisfying too. I'm probably more cautionary about introducing guys to the long range shots than most. Once you start shooting long range you'll realize that it's for very experienced shooters and not a matter of using the right subtention on your reticle or dialing your drops in on your scope. You should be absolutely shocked if you miss within your max range.

By the way Kevin D, I grew up in Wellsville. Great town!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Ok CS...you keep saying "that's your opinion" well, my opinion is that taking these kinds of shots is unethical! Now, what makes your opinion anymore valid then mine?


I never said my opinion was more valid than yours. I don't think you can lump everyone who takes long shots into one category. A 500 yd shot is pretty easy to make for some people that have practiced a lot. They know a lot about the ballistics of their gun and where to aim to hit the target at certain distances.

I don't believe everyone should take long shots, but if someone has practiced a lot then I believe it's fine for them to take long shots.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ya debating distance of a shot is bad. Lets debate the lack of legal hunter orange 


-DallanC


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Every time I take a long shot....I just hold a little high!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Good conversation and a lot of guys made some great point, Toasty and Elk22, you guys both hit it right on the head, very well said! I have hunted with the guys who sight in on the way up the mountain the night before....not good. That guy at 100 yards likely has less chance of an ethical kill than many of the guys who practice regularly at 500 yards I think.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Wow.....not really sure how I feel about this one.....From one standpoint, I'm saying "Awesome shot!"....but from the other I'm saying "That's not exactly what I'd call hunting." I guess if you look up "Hunting" in the dictionary, it qualifies. But to me, part of hunting is getting close enough to your game, that you could be detected. BUT, I guess to each their own. I am curious though, how long was the recovery process on this bad boy?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Get over it guys, I had to... Sure I'd rather make a hunt out of it and sneak in closer. You know me, Mr. Woodsdmanship. :mrgreen:  

Sadly, that's the way it's going. Gun and archery companies alike are marketing their stuff to young people with all the glory and hype of being able to shoot and kill stuff at these ridiculous ranges. Then to add fuel to the fire we've got folks marketing hunting programs and posting stuff on forums that show animals getting killed at these ridiculous ranges. The TV show "Best of the West" comes to mind... It's all food for the crowd of people out there with bigger balls than brains. You know the guy, the one with a barrel sticker on his gun, a No Fear sticker on his jacked up disco truck, and a set of truck nuts hanging from his bumper. :roll: 

Eventually everyone grows up.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

I was watching a deer hunting DVD last night and I had to turn it off because it was rifle hunting...it was so boring...shooting 160" deer from 300yds...so uninteresting... I'll have to give it to my 9 year old nephew that might actually find it intriguing. So I went to Eastman's Bowhunting Journal on the web and watched David Long arrow a monster buck instead. Much better


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

wapiti67 said:


> Ok CS...you keep saying "that's your opinion" well, my opinion is that taking these kinds of shots is unethical! Now, what makes your opinion anymore valid then mine?


The difference is many are making their "opinion" sound like a matter of fact. Each their own as long as they have practiced.

Stable hunting is hunting, if you are "hunting" an animal be it 5 yards out to 1000 yards it is hunting by definition, I am sorry it just isn't your definition.  :lol: :mrgreen:

I personally like getting closer, I get irritated with any one that is shooting out of there range even if that is 20 yards. I get irritated with the boys that pick up their bow or gun the day before the hunt, dust it off and head out into the mountains. Those are the guys that the anger should be directed towards, not the ones that practice their tails off and shoot animals out farther than we think they should. Once again just my opinion.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

> I personally like getting closer, I get irritated with any one that is shooting out of there range even if that is 20 yards. I get irritated with the boys that pick up their bow or gun the day before the hunt, dust it off and head out into the mountains. Those are the guys that the anger should be directed towards, not the ones that practice their tails off and shoot animals out farther than we think they should. Once again just my opinion.


Very well said johan


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

jahan said:


> I get irritated with the boys that pick up their bow or gun the day before the hunt, dust it off and head out into the mountains.


This..... its just irresponsible. The sad thing is that while there are people that can consistently make extremely long shots with a rifle, bow or ML, they are few and far between. The problem lies in the folks who see this happen, think they can pick up the exact same gear and make it happen overnight (the guys Jahan is referring to) without putting in the time to actually become proficient at the same ranges that they're watching their heroes kill animals at. Whats good for some is not good for all and hunting is no place for instant gratification... you want that, pick up a hunting video game where you won't be hurting anything by taking shots that are way out of your league.

For the guys that can do this regularly.... well... kudos I guess on one hell of a shot. I don't agree with it, don't think its much of a "hunt" at all and is better left to targets but hey, as much as it worries me how much I agree with Tex here lately, I agree with him on this too.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> as much as it worries me how much I agree with Tex here lately, I agree with him on this too.


What!? *NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!* :mrgreen:


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> as much as it worries me how much I agree with Tex here lately, I agree with him on this too.


He doesn't need to hear that. :shock:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Why because he grew 3 inches?


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Why because he grew 3 inches?


Hey hey.... lets keep this above the belt fellas. :lol:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Long shots are not my deal. I don't have the equipment to do it. I don't practice it. It would be irresponsible for me to do it. I have not developed that skill. And I doubt I ever will. I've only shot one big game animal past 200 yards in my life. Long shots like that in the video have no appeal to me personally. Its just not my thing.

But - the guy took his elk legally and lawfully (I assume he had proper tags and seasons). So I don't have a problem with it. In all honesty, I'd feel much safer with guys hunting around me that were willing to take two hours to set up a long range shot, than guys that will jump out of a truck and fire at a running deer/elk 50 yards away before it bounds over the ridge, without taking the time to survey the scene to see if anyone is in the line of fire. AND, I'd feel safer with guys eyeing in on game from 1/2 mile away using a variety of spotting scopes and range finders, than the guy that insists on watching me through his rifle scope.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Long shots are not my deal. I don't have the equipment to do it. I don't practice it. It would be irresponsible for me to do it. I have not developed that skill. And I doubt I ever will. I've only shot one big game animal past 200 yards in my life. Long shots like that in the video have no appeal to me personally. Its just not my thing.
> 
> But - the guy took his elk legally and lawfully (I assume he had proper tags and seasons). So I don't have a problem with it. In all honesty, I'd feel much safer with guys hunting around me that were willing to take two hours to set up a long range shot, than guys that will jump out of a truck and fire at a running deer/elk 50 yards away before it bounds over the ridge, without taking the time to survey the scene to see if anyone is in the line of fire. AND, I'd feel safer with guys eyeing in on game from 1/2 mile away using a variety of spotting scopes and range finders, than the guy that insists on watching me through his rifle scope.


The very first valid post in favor of shooting long range and not hunting. This post I get, and agree with, but it still is shooting and not hunting.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > Long shots are not my deal. I don't have the equipment to do it. I don't practice it. It would be irresponsible for me to do it. I have not developed that skill. And I doubt I ever will. I've only shot one big game animal past 200 yards in my life. Long shots like that in the video have no appeal to me personally. Its just not my thing.
> ...


I agree and disagree with you HOGAN. I agree that Gary's post is spot on. I disagree with your assertion that long range hunting is merely shooting and not hunting. Using that line of 'logic' I suppose anything other than using a flint ax like the caveman used is not hunting. I have been on some hunts where long distance shots have been taken/made, it is a fallacy to believe it isn't hunting. Many an animal gets away while the hunter sets up, dials in, and gets all the conditions just right. I ask YOU Joey, at what yardage does it cease to be 'hunting' and become merely shooting? Does the use of a high powered scope make it shooting instead of 'hunting'? How about the use of a range finder? I personally have zero interest in taking long range shots at animals, but that is why I chose to hunt with archery gear. But, to say my method of choice is more 'ethical', or more of a 'hunt' than the guy taking animals at 500+ yards would be misguided.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Well said Pro! - We've missed you


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > Long shots are not my deal. I don't have the equipment to do it. I don't practice it. It would be irresponsible for me to do it. I have not developed that skill. And I doubt I ever will. I've only shot one big game animal past 200 yards in my life. Long shots like that in the video have no appeal to me personally. Its just not my thing.
> ...


Get off you high horse. Since when is your opinion more important than any one else's, except Yotes.  :mrgreen: :lol: I get irritated with people that if it isn't there way it is wrong. Just to clarify I am going to post the Webster dictionary definition of hunting:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hunts

Nowhere in the definition does it say once you shoot an animal out past 114.3 yards you are no longer hunting and are now just shooting. :O•-:


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

All valid points, but I would say it is not called hunting when it does not matter what you wear, or sound like. For example, you could wear after shave and a tuxedo, and talk, sing even and if the animal you are hunting has no idea you are there, it then becomes a non hunt instead it is a shoot. I could see animals eating all the grass in the area before a guy gets 1-far enough away to shoot 2-sets up to shoot 3-sya the punch line of the joke he was tells his buddies 4-move thousands of dollars of video equipment to the 'shootin spot'. etc etc. 

But if I had to answer specifically, 60 bow, 300 rifle. JMO and I know there are guys that are more eqipped to take such a shot, but why shoot, why not hunt?


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

ps when we takin our drive, before you go dormant on me again.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> ps when we takin our drive, before you go dormant on me again.


PM sent


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

o-|| grab another beer o-||


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

This is just the way I see it but, we each use technology to our advantage and our PERSONAL style of hunting. A bow hunter might use synthetic cover sent, synthetic camo, some kind of man made blind and a new fancy compound bow. That's how he chooses to conceal himself from his quarry. If a rifle hunter chooses to conceal himself with distance and puts in the time to practice, why would anyone look down their nose at that hunter?


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

SO...... are snipers not considered to engage in combat? They take long shots at an enemy that has no idea he is there. Does combat mean you have to be within close range of your enemy? Is combat under 200yds and anything beyond that is not combat? Just killing?

Pioneers traveled by wagon in pretty hard conditions. Now we travel by plane and in comfort. Is it not traveling anymore? There are hundred of parallels like this.

Just because the techniques and the technology changes the variables of a situation, it doesn't mean that the concept ceases to be what it is. It is all hunting regardles of our opinions.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Madhunter....with all due respect, comparing a military sniper to a dude shooting an elk is kinda assanine. WAR is a matter of LIFE or DEATH, for both parties involved. Hunting/shooting is for fun. Although I see exactly the parallel you are trying to draw, I think that one should be stricken from the record.

Having said all of what I just said, you do make a valid point. Technology allows us to do things far differently than those before us. Does that make it better? Depends on your viewpoint. I still believe that this isn't "Hunting".....I'd almost refer to it more as "Harvesting". Kinda like pickin' a Zucchini out of your garden.....the Zucchini doesn't even know you are there.....

While I will not knock the marksmanship that it takes to pull off this shot, it's not my thing. To me (MY OPINION ONLY), Hunting is more than just making the shot count.

DUSTIN!!!!! Pass me some of that popcorn, and a beer.....I think I may need it.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I think MadHunter was spot on with his analogies.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

But duckhunter is right.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

and just because you say it 10018 times does not make it right. It still only counts as 1 vote. I am starting a poll on thios BS.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

Here is some basic math that puts this in perspective for me.
Rifle - 300yds (most peoples max range) / 533 (actual shot) = 1.77
Bow - 40yds (comparible to 300yds) x 1.77 = 71yds
So does a 533 yard rifle shot = a 71 yard bow shot? Hell I don't know but it is an interesting comparison. Most bow hunters I know will take a 71yd shot, so all you bowhunters who are flaming this guy need to ask yourself if you would take a 71yd shot?


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

hockey said:


> Here is some basic math that puts this in perspective for me.
> Rifle - 300yds (most peoples max range) / 533 (actual shot) = 1.77
> Bow - 40yds (comparible to 300yds) x 1.77 = 71yds
> So does a 533 yard rifle shot = a 71 yard bow shot? Hell I don't know but it is an interesting comparison. Most bow hunters I know will take a 71yd shot, so all you bowhunters who are flaming this guy need to ask yourself if you would take a 71yd shot?


Interesting, most? Really, Most bow hunters I know cannot make this shot 4 out of 5 arrows inside a pie plate, come close but that doesn't count. Throw in the fact that the target is live game aka buck fever, wind, etc etc and its a no brainer. But like you said Hockey, most will take this shot, because their buddies do.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I think MadHunter was spot on with his analogies.


Where is your reference to some obscure right wing website to validate your point?

Duckhunter nailed it when he called the comparison between a military sniper and shooting a elk "assanine"


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Gentlemen - Stepping into this discussion as a Mod - 
Keep up with the discussion, but keep it civil. The topic/subject is a great one and should be discussed. Lets just make sure that in that discussion, we shy away from personal attacks/slams that are starting to show. I'd hate to shut down a great discussion because it can't be had in a civil fashion. 

Thanks!

Gary


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

duckhunter1096 said:


> Madhunter....with all due respect, comparing a military sniper to a dude shooting an elk is kinda assanine. WAR is a matter of LIFE or DEATH, for both parties involved. Hunting/shooting is for fun. Although I see exactly the parallel you are trying to draw, I think that one should be stricken from the record.
> 
> Having said all of what I just said, you do make a valid point. Technology allows us to do things far differently than those before us. Does that make it better? Depends on your viewpoint. I still believe that this isn't "Hunting".....I'd almost refer to it more as "Harvesting". Kinda like pickin' a Zucchini out of your garden.....the Zucchini doesn't even know you are there.....
> 
> ...


How dare you disagree with Mr. Webster Dictionary. :mrgreen: :lol:


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The problem comparing a 70 yard bow shot with a 500 yard rifle shot really doen't work too well. How much energy will the arrow have to cut through muscle and possibly glance off a rib bone to make it a killing shot? As compared to a monern rifle bullet at 500 yards ability to break bone and penetrate into the vitals? It would also be interesting to see what the hold over would be on an arrow at 70 yards. I know that a .30 caliber 165 gr boattail at 3100 fps is almost 3 feet of hold over with a 300 yard zero with 1500 ft-lbs at 500 yards and loosing energy fast. It almost makes an argument that neither shot should be taken.


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## highcountryfever (Aug 24, 2009)

I just read the entire thread...so far. There is 10 min of my life I will never get back.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

hockey said:


> Duckhunter nailed it when he called the comparison between a military sniper and shooting a elk "assanine"


As is comparing an archery shot to a rifle shot. :?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> and just because you say it 10018 times does not make it right. It still only counts as 1 vote. I am starting a poll on thios BS.


Your poll isn't looking good for your point of view. :mrgreen:


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Alright!!!!! Pro is back and his last post was 100"22". I love it.

BTW I just shot my bow tonight at 150 yards. My furthest shot EVER with an acctual pin on it. I drilled the paper plate!!!!!..............................with one arrow and the other three were low and right but in a 2 inch group with half my nock busted off. That would have been SOOOOOOOOO cool to have finished off a Robin Hood at 150.

My question is how far would a rifleman have to be from the target to have the equivelance of my shot at 150 yards. ha ha


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

So, what is teh actual poll question being discussed? I may know someone who could add one.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> Alright!!!!! Pro is back and his last post was 100"22". I love it.
> 
> BTW I just shot my bow tonight at 150 yards. My furthest shot EVER with an acctual pin on it. I drilled the paper plate!!!!!..............................with one arrow and the other three were low and right but in a 2 inch group with half my knock busted off. That would have been SOOOOOOOOO cool to have finished off a Robin Hood at 150.
> 
> My question is how far would a rifleman have to be from the target to have the equivelance of my shot at 150 yards. ha ha


Most guys could only dream of being as accurate with a rifle as you are with a bow Scott. That is coming from a guy who learned how to shoot long distances with snipers from the 7th group at Ft.Bragg. Anybody that says making a one shot kill at 533 yds is "just" shooting doesn't know crap about long distance shooting. For the record my longest shot on a big game animal was just a hair under 1000 yds at a cow elk on the run and I knocked her butthole over tea kettle she was dead before she came to a full stop. DISCLAIMER: That was almost 25 yrs ago and I was fresh out of the service and I wouldn't even attempt that shot today. That is one hunt that will stay fresh in my memory until they shovel dirt in my face.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> HOGAN said:
> 
> 
> > and just because you say it 10018 times does not make it right. It still only counts as 1 vote. I am starting a poll on thios BS.
> ...


Gary said keep it civil knuckelhead can't you read? And that is what I was afraid of. :mrgreen:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

*Wapiti67*



> I won't hunt with people who takes shots like this..


Oh yes YOU would!! If you went hunting with me, and we tried our best to get closer with no success. Then I would have to take the long shot. You wouldn't get home because I have the truck keys.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

elk22hunter said:


> BTW I just shot my bow tonight at 150 yards. My furthest shot EVER with an acctual pin on it. I drilled the paper plate!!!!!..............................with one arrow and the other three were low and right but in a 2 inch group with half my nock busted off. That would have been SOOOOOOOOO cool to have finished off a Robin Hood at 150.


I hope you don't try that during the season because any shot past 25 yards isn't hunting it's just shooting.  Accually Scott, that's awesome shooting. The way bows have gone the past few years is amazing.
Chuck.


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