# Glass bedding



## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Guy's,

I have a Win. Model 70 synthetic stock rifle that I got a couple of years ago. I just recently started shooting it and trying to build a load for it. I am having serious accuracy issues and feel that it might be the rifle. I have put a new scope on it (Vortex viper). New mounts, etc. I am still spraying groups from 1 1/2" to much bigger. No real rhyme or reason. It is happening both with my reloads and factory ammo.

The stock has some gaps and some spots where it appears to be touching the barrel. I can work a sheet of paper down between the stock and the barrel but it does not slide really easy. 

I do not have a lot experience working on rifles. That being said, I can follow directions occasionally...

Do you guy's think a glass bedding job would help my accuracy and if so, Is it easy enough to do? What type of tools do you need etc? I appreciate any help, ideas, or suggestions I can get from you guys "in the know"!!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Glass bed the ACTION... FLOAT the barrel. Actually look into "pillar" bedding action kits.


-DallanC


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Keep in mind that that may be as good as she'll do. Many factory rifles shoot 1 1/2" groups at best. You can try a few things and maybe it will help. Do as DallanC suggests, "glass" the "action", float the barrel. Most good bedding kits come with easy to follow instructions. It doesn't sound as if the barrel touching is the problem...your group will normally "climb" as the barrel heats up if that is the problem. Also, check the crown and make sure it looks good with no burrs or rough spots, this is a common problem that is many times over looked. Beyond these things, there's not much else you can really do. Good shooting barrels are "good" from the get go and it might be as they say, "tough to make a silk purse out of a sows ear". Good luck.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks guys. I will check in to that. Hopefully I can get her shooting a tad bit better.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What kind of synthetic stock is it? Is it thermoplastic, or a fiberglass or Kevlar? Also, how old is the rifle? What kind of rest are you using to shoot your groups? One thing to try first is to float the barrel. Shim the action up so that the barrel does not contact the barrel channel. You can do this by placing some cardboard between the stock and action and then tightening the action screws. Now here is the tricky part. Do not over tighten the action screws. The front screw should be as tight as you can get it. The rear screw should be snug, but don't try to kill it. The center screw should be just tight enough that it doesn't fall out. 
Do your groups have any tendencies? Do they spread in one direction of another, like vertical stringing? Two distinct groups? Or just random patterns? 
What caliber? 
Also, some rifles will shoot better with a pressure point about two inches from the end of the fore end. You can test this by placing a cardboard shim between the barrel ans stock. The cardboard from an empty 22 shell box works great.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Loke,

I will try those ideas too. I am shooting off a lead sled. 7mm WSM. My patterns are random. Rarely do I get 2 together. I will try the cardboard 1st to see if that helps. 

If the cardboard helps, does that tell me I need to glass bed or float the barrel permanently somehow? Which is better?


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I just bedded a Stillar action into a thumbhole stock. I took pictures of the steps and will post them soon. I hope it will help you.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Another thought: have you been using the same ammunition throughout the time you have been getting poor groups? If so, maybe try a different brand / bullet. It could be that your gun doesnt like the ammo you are using as well.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What is better is whatever works for your rifle. It would really help to know more about your set-up. Stock material is a factor that we need to know before we can suggest a cure. Some stock materials respond better to solutions better than others. Some of the injection molded stocks are made of a material that the epoxies used for glass bedding will not stick to very well. Also check the scope mounts for loose screws. Where there is no pattern to the groups, that indicates to me that the problem is something other than bedding. With a bedding problem there is usually vertical stringing, or two distinct groups.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I do not know what the stock is made of but it is a factory synthetic stock. I believe the model of rifle is the shadow hunter. I have used 1 kind of factory ammo and multiple loads of 160 grain Sierra BTSP, 160 Accubonds, 162 grain SST's. Scope mounts are tight but I have found the rings just slightly loose twice. Not enough to see movement in the scope by twisting it but at least a quarter turn on the hex head. Maybe I should replace my rings before i go to bedding it?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Try a little LocTite on the scope ring screw threads. Believe it or not, 1 1/2 inch groups are better than most people can shoot, and perfectly acceptable for hunting purposes.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I will try a little Loc Tite. Unfortunately I am having a rough time getting 1 1/2 consistently and most are more like 3". Maybe I am a little spoiled with my other rifles??


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Try a different bullet weight, and seating depths can make a huge difference. Are your other rifles Remington 700s? That would be the reason that you could be spoiled.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Out of curiosity what brand Rings/Bases are you using???? Style?????

I have had a lot of problems with low quality rings/bases and have since mounted nothing but Leupold Dual Dovetail rings and bases on everything and LOVE THEM......I learned the hard way that an expensive scope does absolutely no good without quality rings/bases. 

I would also try different bullets, weights and seating depths like Loke suggested. Seating depths are one of the most overlooked part of reloading in my opinion and can take a rifle shooting two inch groups to under an inch. Small, small increments can make a world of difference.

7mm WSM hits pretty hard as well, in a lead sled you shouldn't be flinching but just in case what is your trigger pull at?????


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

The bases are Warnes (weaver style) which I have had great success with on my Ruger M77 and my Rem 700. They are solid but I am open to oppinions for sure. The rings I am using are actually Vortex brand (they came with the scope) and to be honest I think they may be my problem. I have found them just a tad loose twice and although I could see no movement trying to twist the scope, the recoil on the WSM is pretty stout. It could be moving I guess?

I do not know my trigger pull. I need to have it checked and adjusted. 

Tell me more about the seating depths. Do I start at the COL and move it out? What increments do you go each time?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Your seating depth is going to vary with each bullet you use. The best rule of thumb that I have found is to start with your bullet .015 inch from touching the lands. The best way to determine this is to load a dummy round with the bullet you are using. That means size your case as normal, then load a bullet with no powder or primer. Then seat a bullet so that it is barely inside the case. Then coat the bullet with dry erase marker. In the old days we would coat the bullet with soot from a match or candle. Probably not the best thing to use at your loading bench. Then chamber the round. The first time or three you won't be able to close the bolt. Don't force it. Check the bullet for marks from the rifling. Seat the bullet a little deeper until the round chambers without leaving marks on the bullet. When you can tell that the bullet is just kissing the rifling, measure it, and write that measurement down. You will need a dial caliper (or digital, it doesn't matter) for this. Then seat the bullet so the cartridge overall length is .015 inches shorter. Some rifles shoot better with the bullet touching the lands, but this will cause a pressure spike. Reduce your loads before you try that. Better yet, just don't do it. Your bullet needs a running start to engrave the riflings. Try adjusting your seating depth in .005 inch increments. The next issue you might run into is the length of your magazine. It may be too short to allow your COL to function properly. I'm assuming that your rifle has a short action, which means a short magazine box. You may need to go to a lighter bullet. I personally have had fantastic results with the Barnes TSX in 2 different 270 Winchesters. Others will have the same opinion of different bullets.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

I would also consider a Berger VLD............for some reason i have seen a lot of 7MM's shoot these very well.

Loke has a lot of good info there for you as well......very well stated as usual......


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks again for the info. I went down and bought some new rings (warnes) and had them mounted and am ready to go! Next good day of weather i will go shoot my current loads and i will load some as suggested just off the lands. Thanks again for all the help!


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## yfzduner450 (Dec 28, 2009)

With the 7mm i'd defiantely check out the scope rings and bases. You may not "see" a difference but it don't take much. I always torque my bases and rings down with some lock-tite on the threads. Also your rings may need to be lapped because of a out of round spot could also lead to the rings coming loose. Also, i wouldn't stress to much over 1.5" as said before, that's pretty standard for factory rifles. I would also recomend trying 1 thing at a time and testing because I'm a firm believer of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".


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