# Newcastle



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Ran out to Newcastle on Friday morning. There were about 3 boats out, 4 pontoons, and 2 kayaks, along with numerous groups fishing from shore. Lot's of evidence of people fishing with anchovies and mussels on the shoreline at the ramp. A good number of camps out there too, with Easter weekend. The word is out on wipers.

fishing from the pontoon was a little slow. I was dragging buggers around -- had numerous good sharp hits, but couldn't seem to hook up. We did hear a bunch of loud, animated, excited cheering and yelling as the kayaks fellers landed what they called a "huge" wiper. I never saw it. They said it was over 10 pounds. Using a 'ned rig'. It was his first wiper ever -- it must have been pretty nice. Not nice enough for all the F-bombs they were dropping for the whole lake to hear....

I ended the day with one 17" rainbow. It hit as I was rowing in to the boat ramp to end the day. It was a really nice fish. 

I'll have to go give it another try in a week or two.


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

It's too bad ksl had to hot spot it. It's just not a big enough lake to take much pressure. 
How was the water level?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Water levels were ok. I am not too worried about any hot spotting just because those wipers are not easy to catch. Right now there are lots of shiners available for forage.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I blame the DWR's OutReach program as much as KSL. But, that's their job...


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Oh no! The DWR is telling people about the hybrid, sterile nonnative fish they planted in a particular waterbody so that people can try to catch them, which might lead people to go there to try to actually catch them


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Oh no! The DWR is telling people about the hybrid, sterile nonnative fish they planted in a particular waterbody so that people can try to catch them, which might lead people to go there to try to actually catch them



well.....not really. It might seem so on the surface. But my gripe with the facebook posts are more geared towards expectations, and the resulting uninformed angler comments and suggestions that follow. I'm fine with promoting the fishery, but the outreach group should get with the biologists to make an informational post that accurately depicts the hows, whys, and whats of the fishery. Instead, we get glory shots and the resulting comments of "we should stock more shiners in other water bodies to grow fish like that...".


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

You mean if I don't put out a gill net I won't get a glory shot photo with a 10lb wiper? I'm staying home.....
Their post actually made me think it might be fun to head down that way and fish it.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Only people I saw catching fish more than a week ago were using anchovies. I could see fish on the finder but couldn't entice anything with artificial lures. Biggest I saw caught were in the 6 lb range.

Tempted to head out with some bait.

DWR could always do better at educating the public on aquatic ecology, I know I need a refresher. Other than that I have a hard time caring much about the hot spotting, it's a public resource and the wipers there are anything but a secret.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> Instead, we get glory shots and the resulting comments of "we should stock more shiners in other water bodies to grow fish like that...".


Doesn't that pretty much sum up the typical Utah fisherman? How many times have we heard "You can't grow big fish unless you give the big fish something to eat".


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Being new to the fishery there I'm curious to know the likelihood it survives this year's low snowpack in a healthy fashion. It has a conservation pool but I personally don't know how to gauge that amount against likely evaporative losses and effects of water temperature.

I've been trying to entice my friends and family to go with me but they are all focused on Panguitch still. It's a lot cheaper for me to hit Newcastle and I'm hoping that get in a plenty more trips before it starts it's epic algae bloom.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Historically, the c-pool has been adequate to keep the fishery from "drying up". But, we're dealing with a drought unlike anything we've seen in the recent past. May advice? Don't wait until next year!


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Catherder said:


> Doesn't that pretty much sum up the typical Utah fisherman? How many times have we heard "You can't grow big fish unless you give the big fish something to eat".


I’m not super smart but not dumb either.
Every waterbody in the world that grows large fish has a food source.
Are you suggesting there is an alternate method of growing large fish?
If so, please teach us.
P.S. I am a typical Utah fisherman.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Shane -- I think what Catherder is saying is that the food source doesn't have to be "bait fish". You certainly can grow big trout (15lbs +) without bait fish (chubs, shiners, etc.).


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> Shane -- I think what Catherder is saying is that the food source doesn't have to be "bait fish". You certainly can grow big trout (15lbs +) without bait fish (chubs, shiners, etc.).


Exactly. (I didn't have a chance to respond until now). In high quality trout systems, you do not need to have chubs, golden shiners, or other baitfish present, that often cause problems to the fisheries trying to be managed, for good growth, . Unfortunately, the presence of them in some situations causes way more problems than any supposed benefits and this being Utah, too many geniuses take it upon themselves to be bucket biologists and put them there. In warmwater systems, it is different, and you do need more of a fish forage base, but too many folks don't know the difference, or don't care and disastrous results like Scofield are seen.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

To take it a step further, golden shiners--the primary food source for wipers in Newcastle--have done well at elevations and in reservoirs that wipers would not (Kolob Reservoir, for example). In such cases, the shiners would have a negative effect on the fishery if they were moved around.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

It's all about biomass. If you put shiners or some other forage fish in a water, they eat what the other fish already in the water eat too. So you may be thinking that these forage fish are going to make huge fish with increased biomass, but you might be creating a former trophy water that is now infested with chubs and needs a rotenone treatment to save it.

Or wipers.

There are some stillwaters around the west that have very little forage base in minnows/fish, and the fish become absolutely giant eating insects only.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> It's all about biomass. If you put shiners or some other forage fish in a water, they eat what the other fish already in the water eat too. So you may be thinking that these forage fish are going to make huge fish with increased biomass, but you might be creating a former trophy water that is now infested with chubs and needs a rotenone treatment to save it.
> 
> Or wipers.
> 
> There are some stillwaters around the west that have very little forage base in minnows/fish, and the fish become absolutely giant eating insects only.


"Carrying capacity" is the correct term in this example.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Daisy said:


> "Carrying capacity" is the correct term in this example.


It is "a" correct term, but not the only correct term. The biomass present relates to carrying capacity, for sure.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> There are some stillwaters around the west that have very little forage base in minnows/fish, and the fish become *absolutely giant* eating insects only.


Prove it. I'll need coordinates, preferably within a 3.5 hour drive from UT County. PM preferred, I don't need LOAH having another place to take more XL trout pics.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Packout said:


> Prove it. I'll need coordinates, preferably within a 3.5 hour drive from UT County. PM preferred, I don't need LOAH having another place to take more XL trout pics.



Those exist! One in particular. The other has a little better forage fish base, but not a ton. The one is basically all insect fed. Chironomid fishing is fun there! Here is a “small” sampling…you’ll have to use your imagination for the rest.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Those exist! One in particular. The other has a little better forage fish base, but not a ton. The one is basically all insect fed. Chironomid fishing is fun there! Here is a “small” sampling…you’ll have to use your imagination for the rest.
> 
> View attachment 151866
> 
> ...




Come on, Nilla, Packout requested GPS coords, not pictures. Lets have them or it didn't happen!  

I'll be happy to give you the coords where I was fishing yesterday, although you probably could have seen me from the UDOT traffic cam.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Packout said:


> Prove it. I'll need coordinates, preferably within a 3.5 hour drive from UT County. PM preferred, I don't need LOAH having another place to take more XL trout pics.


Spinners Reseivor up on the Manti used to grow huge trout real fast. It's almost drained during the summer after rainbows are planted in the early summer. I is full of little green bugs that the fish love.

I was up there last fall and caught one over 2lbs and had a couple more snap my line

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

The avocational stocking of our reservoirs is so saddening. And people that take live bait into these reservoirs make me reconsider the general ban on gladiator sports as criminal punishment. 

If I hadn't been married when I took my first freshwater ecology class I might be in a different place but I am grateful there are wiser people than I tackling fisheries' health. I honestly don't think I'd enjoy that level of responsibility. But in the last 18 months or so I've been impressed with the number of fisherman thinking they know the solutions. I've recently heard from resource managers about possible solutions to reclaiming Navajo as a healthy fishery and my only response is "I hope it works". Not because I don't care, as I'd love to see some quality fish in there again, but simply because I really lack the skill, knowledge and desire to know what's "best". 

Per Newcastle....I finally caught my first wiper there this last weekend. Little 12" but grateful for the new experience. Weirdest day of fishing I've had in a while but better than not being outside fishing. And can't wait for some good fish tacos.


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