# Gas prices got you rethinking hunting plans yet?



## colorcountrygunner

Man, this is gonna hurt this year. I have been crunching numbers and estimating miles from my house to southern Idaho, southern Utah and wherever else I might hunt, dividing the miles by the pitiful mpg I get out of my pickup, then multiplying that figure by the current $4.19 a gallon and the potential (almost certain) 5+....Fuuuuuuudge. This is not looking good.


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## CPAjeff

The increasing prices across the board is sure to hurt quite a few folks! I'm an optimistic realist, and I don't see how the bubble isn't going to pop again . . . this time it'll be much worse.


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## johnnycake

On the one hand, I'm REALLY glad I switched my Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8 at 4-12mpg out for my diesel F350. On the other hand, filling up that 42 gallon tank last Friday at $4.49 was...well, I'm still walking funny.


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## Catherder

CPAjeff said:


> The increasing prices across the board is sure to hurt quite a few folks! I'm an optimistic realist, and I don't see how the bubble isn't going to pop again . . . this time it'll be much worse.


While not good overall, the Uintah basin will likely see boom times again. The worldwide picture is too murky IMO to make any long term pronouncements positive or negative. I think food prices will be hit harder than energy over the next 6 months though. 

I'm extra glad my new truck crushes it on the fuel economy.


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## Lone_Hunter

From what I've seen from the news today, I think we'll be lucky if it doesn't exceed 5$ a gallon, or more. Possibly a lot more. Not sure how it's going to effect my hunting plans yet this year. I wonder if food prices will have more people out hunting this year, however, gas prices might also keep some at home too. Who knows.


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## Critter

Just look at it this way. 

All those folks that people were complaining about over the last couple of years will now not be able to afford to get out into the woods or the fishing ponds, so less crowding.


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## Vanilla

This is all crap. I hate to get on my soapbox here but OPEC could end this “crisis” in less than a month if they wanted to. But with oil at well over $100 per barrel, why would they want to?

Go back to April 2020 when OPEC significantly cut oil production because the price has bottomed out and they need to inflate their take again. It’s funny how so many people placed blame on current events (prior to the invasion) and completely ignored that the price increase for our fuel was set in motion before the democrats had even picked their candidate. These people are not our allies and we need to quit pretending or hoping they will be. 

No, the cost of fuel will not impact my hunting plans this year. It certainly could in the future if the cost of things this year gets too extreme, however.


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## bthewilde

colorcountrygunner said:


> Man, this is gonna hurt this year. I have been crunching numbers and estimating miles from my house to southern Idaho, southern Utah and wherever else I might hunt, dividing the miles by the pitiful mpg I get out of my pickup, then multiplying that figure by the current $4.19 a gallon and the potential (almost certain) 5+....Fuuuuuuudge. This is not looking good.


I am planning on going this weekend to chase Yotes just South of Cedar City, and.....I dunno if I can now! I work for a Gubment Facility, so I get paid on the 7th and 22nd, my 7th check didn't go as far as I thought. I think it's honestly only going to get worse by Fall too! I am starting to wonder if I can even chase Turkeys. Both my Cars (F150 and Traverse) aren't exactly sippers.


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## DallanC

Maybe this will finally cool off the Truck market somewhat. Orders are +7 months out atm, and prior to the rapid fuel cost rise, GM was projecting the shortage to last through 2023. Maybe $6 diesel will slow down the appetite some.

-DallanC


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## bowgy




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## colorcountrygunner

johnnycake said:


> On the one hand, I'm REALLY glad I switched my Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8 at 4-12mpg out for my diesel F350. On the other hand, filling up that 42 gallon tank last Friday at $4.49 was...well, I'm still walking funny.


And it's only march. By the time Memorial Day Weekend kicks off high fuel price season every fill up will be followed by 2 hours of sobbing in the fetal position on the floor of the shower while "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia plays in the background.


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## High Desert Elk

The price per bbl is the replacement cost, not the shelf price it's being sold for. The first time OPEC did this (recently) 10 years ago in flooding the market was to drive down the price of oil due to the domestic oil shale boom throughout the Rocky Mountain basins and the Permian. 

They essentially wanted to keep their market control because they can replace that oil cheaper than the US can. Wells in OPEC countries tend to flow on their own, whereas in North America they require some form of hydraulic stimulation (frac'ing). They also have less input for equipment needs and labor. A petroleum engineer in an OPEC country may be paid the equivalent in US dollars of $35,000 per year compared to the American petro eng at $175,000 per year. Then you have rig hands, tool hands, directional drillers, etc.

So, the reflective price at the pump is dependent on all the input costs to replace that bbl of oil in today's markets and economy with all the facets that affect it. Supply chain was disrupted months ago, and it affects that replacement price today.

Throw in an eastern European conflict/war as the wild card...


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## backcountry

Hard to imagine a scenario in which we don't exceed $5/gallon and inch towards $6. The jump alone in the last 10 days has been crazy.

We are already having to cut trips. We don't know what my wife's raise this year will be yet and we are part of the middle class that didn't change jobs during the pandemic = relatively stagnant salary. Our food budget was raised massively 3 months ago and it's looking like we'll either have to scale back meal quality or increase again within 3ish months.

We are well into our post-empire phase and the middle class will continued to get squeezed no matter who is president. Most of what we are experiencing is just predictable outcomes of an interconnected global economy.


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## johnnycake

colorcountrygunner said:


> And it's only march. By the time Memorial Day Weekend kicks off high fuel price season every fill up will be followed by 2 hours of sobbing in the fetal position on the floor of the shower while "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia plays in the background.


Yep. At least now I get ~800 miles on a tank. Good thing ptarmigan hunting is only 20 miles from my house now too. I ought to be able to make it to the end of the season this month before needing to give unenthusiastic consent at the pump again.


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## Catherder

colorcountrygunner said:


> And it's only march. By the time Memorial Day Weekend kicks off high fuel price season every fill up will be followed by 2 hours of sobbing in the fetal position on the floor of the shower while "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia plays in the background.



I have to admit, that was dang funny.


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## colorcountrygunner

Catherder said:


> I have to admit, that was dang funny.


I had some more imagery I wanted to include, but...didn't wanna bend any forum rules ya know.


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## backcountry

And what happens if we have another cyber attack on pipelines like last year? Do we really think Putin is "stable enough" to not escalate his non-military strategy against those boycotting them or supporting Ukraine? It's not just the war but Putin's absolute disregard for any sort of foreign stability that has me concerned. The pipeline was down for less than a week last year and had lingering affects. A few strategic cyber attacks during critical tourism season would have significant impacts to US quality of life.

And we had multiple leaks/spills last year. Take 8-10% of world supply off the market (at least for NATO countries) from here on and add any problems we've had in the recent past to the equation and the future looks a little stark.

Fingers crossed my pessimism is wrong. Maybe GasBuddy's prediction is correct and prices will drop after memorial day. But I'm not betting on it.


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## Critter

I'm just glad that I have my airfare taken care of for my African hunt this year. I can see jet fuel prices going through the roof.


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## colorcountrygunner

backcountry said:


> Hard to imagine a scenario in which we don't exceed $5/gallon and inch towards $6. The jump alone in the last 10 days has been crazy.
> 
> We are already having to cut trips. We don't know what my wife's raise this year will be yet and we are part of the middle class that didn't change jobs during the pandemic = relatively stagnant salary. Our food budget was raised massively 3 months ago and it's looking like we'll either have to scale back meal quality or increase again within 3ish months.
> 
> We are well into our post-empire phase and the middle class will continued to get squeezed no matter who is president. Most of what we are experiencing is just predictable outcomes of an interconnected global economy.


Sounds like you are pretty "aware" of our situation. I hear young adults talking like we are just going through some temporary weird stuff and then normal life will resume and they will live the same old life that their parents and grandparents did. I wish I could be so naive. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic (likely so) but I feel like things are gonna get increasingly fooky from her on out.


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## Isuckathunting

Might have to pick up a Prius, throw some 10 plys on there and so how she handles the hills. If only I could figure out how to pull a horse trailer with it.


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## Lone_Hunter

bthewilde said:


> Both my Cars (F150 and Traverse) aren't exactly sippers.


Fear my Vortec 8100 8.1 L V8 gasser! (That said, took it out a grand total of 1500 miles last year  )


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## backcountry

colorcountrygunner said:


> Sounds like you are pretty "aware" of our situation. I hear young adults talking like we are just going through some temporary weird stuff and then normal life will resume and they will live the same old life that their parents and grandparents did. I wish I could be so naive. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic (likely so) but I feel like things are gonna get increasingly fooky from her on out.


No more than anyone else here. I just believe there's a series of dominos on the world stage that could fall and create broad consequences. Ukraine is rightfully the focus now. How that goes influences China's posture on Taiwan. These were all setup from long term foreign policy blunders that precede Biden's abysmal withdrawal and even Trump's ridiculous agreement w/ the terrorists that are the Taliban. Hence my post-empire conclusion. And the implications of Putin or puppet government knocking at NATO country's doors if he succeeds in Ukraine is vast.

Gas prices are just the most recognizable impact on Americans from this mess. And there isn't much we can do about it without a type of coordination and restructuring that's not likely to happen given our historic values. Even the best case scenario has us on edge for years to come, unless Russians somehow dethrone Putin (and that scares the poop out of the CCP, unlikely). I sincerely believe our quality of life is implicated for a while, which would be more in line with historic norms.


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## DallanC

*75 mpg!* Going to be spending alot of time on this I reckon over the summer. 1996 Honda XR250L. This was a special road legal, offroad bike Honda made for a few years (1991-1996). In 1996 they retooled the engine giving it a decent hp gain. These are super hard to find now, I've had this one for 14 years or so. Still only 3700 miles.

Its a 250cc with a 6 speed transmission, first 3 gears are from the XR250 line (lower gears), the top 3 are from the XL250 line (higher gears). Basically you can climb around like a Mt Goat yet still hit some pretty good speeds on the Highway (I've hit 70mph on the freeway with factory sprockets, but I've since geared it down further, 55mph is max now). XR250R frame and suspension.

 75mpg baby!










-DallanC


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## johnnycake

DallanC said:


> *75 mpg!* Going to be spending alot of time on this I reckon over the summer. 1996 Honda XR250L. This was a special road legal, offroad bike Honda made for a few years (1991-1996). In 1996 they retooled the engine giving it a decent hp gain. These are super hard to find now, I've had this one for 14 years or so. Still only 3700 miles.
> 
> Its a 250cc with a 6 speed transmission, first 3 gears are from the XR250 line (lower gears), the top 3 are from the XL250 line (higher gears). Basically you can climb around like a Mt Goat yet still hit some pretty good speeds on the Highway (I've hit 70mph on the freeway with factory sprockets, but I've since geared it down further, 55mph is max now). XR250R frame and suspension.
> 
> 75mpg baby!
> 
> View attachment 151376
> 
> 
> -DallanC


But doesn't your gas mileage depend on which insects are hatching at the time of the ride. Midges give me bloat like none other


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## DallanC

johnnycake said:


> But doesn't your gas mileage depend on which insects are hatching at the time of the ride. Midges give me bloat like none other


Its those **** flying ants that get me... those little buggers bite.

-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter

DallanC said:


> *75 mpg!* Going to be spending alot of time on this I reckon over the summer. 1996 Honda XR250L. This was a special road legal, offroad bike Honda made for a few years (1991-1996). In 1996 they retooled the engine giving it a decent hp gain. These are super hard to find now, I've had this one for 14 years or so. Still only 3700 miles.
> 
> Its a 250cc with a 6 speed transmission, first 3 gears are from the XR250 line (lower gears), the top 3 are from the XL250 line (higher gears). Basically you can climb around like a Mt Goat yet still hit some pretty good speeds on the Highway (I've hit 70mph on the freeway with factory sprockets, but I've since geared it down further, 55mph is max now). XR250R frame and suspension.
> 
> 75mpg baby!
> 
> View attachment 151376
> 
> 
> -DallanC


Now there's an idea. I mean, use a bike or 4 wheeler when you otherwise wouldn't have. My trouble is, I need the gas guzzler to get it over the highway. Might be fun though, backpack/car camp off a 4 wheeler instead of a truck.


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## taxidermist

I'll be making three (200 mile round trip) trips a week to place bait for my bear hunt in August, and that's going to hit the pocket book. I've already told the wife were not making fishing trips to chase Kokanee every week. She aint happy!

Diesel Fuel in California was $7.22 gal. last week I heard from a truck driver friend.


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## 2full

I'll get the 'ol 75 Suzuki DT 250 out. It's still in good shape, even still has the turn signals on it, very few of those bikes made it out with those things. 
It's only 19 miles to my cabin from the house. I'll stock it up, and then only have to take the truck up to restock and take a couple of the four wheelers up. 
It's actually pretty well stocked up now for snowmobile trips, but I am not allowed to do that this year. 😢 
I can take the old C road up and be there in no time.


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## taxidermist

So, Europe is reliant on 94% of its oil from Russia. Our friends across the pond are really going to feel the pain of fuel prices. I don't see it ending very soon with all this world upheaval.


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## middlefork

Diched the Honda 250 years ago. Couldn't afford the medical bills LOL.

5 gallons round trip and maybe another 1-2 in the SXS I'll be good unless it gets to $10.00/ gallon. Now how expensive it gets to drown the sorrows will be the big kicker.


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## middlefork

taxidermist said:


> I sure haven't herd a peep from the "Biden Lovers" in a while.
> 
> So, Europe is reliant on 94% of its oil from Russia. Our friends across the pond are really going to feel the pain of fuel prices. I don't see it ending very soon with all this world upheaval.


It has been many years since I've been there but it has never been cheap. I remember bitd looking at the price and figuring out that was per liter. OMG


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## Lone_Hunter

taxidermist said:


> I sure haven't herd a peep from the "Biden Lovers" in a while.
> 
> So, Europe is reliant on 94% of its oil from Russia. Our friends across the pond are really going to feel the pain of fuel prices. I don't see it ending very soon with all this world upheaval.


I was feeling masochistic and looked in the comment section on a KSL article:








What Utah Gov. Spencer Cox wants President Biden to know about oil, gas


Utah Gov. Spencer Cox sent a three-page missive to President Joe Biden on Monday, arguing against the Interior Department's




www.ksl.com





Lots of idiots who are doubling down on "green energy", and how it's all the oil company's fault, and not Bidens. Etc etc. 
Having them feel regret about the Potato's executive actions? Wishful thinking I'm afraid.


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## High Desert Elk

backcountry said:


> No more than anyone else here. I just believe there's a series of dominos on the world stage that could fall and create broad consequences. Ukraine is rightfully the focus now. How that goes influences China's posture on Taiwan. These were all setup from long term foreign policy blunders that precede Biden's abysmal withdrawal and even Trump's ridiculous agreement w/ the terrorists that are the Taliban. Hence my post-empire conclusion. And the implications of Putin or puppet government knocking at NATO country's doors if he succeeds in Ukraine is vast.
> 
> Gas prices are just the most recognizable impact on Americans from this mess. And there isn't much we can do about it without a type of coordination and restructuring that's not likely to happen given our historic values. Even the best case scenario has us on edge for years to come, unless Russians somehow dethrone Putin (and that scares the poop out of the CCP, unlikely). I sincerely believe our quality of life is implicated for a while, which would be more in line with historic norms.


Xi is watching closely now that the economic impact has hit Russia with unplanned measures relative to putin's plan. China's economy is more fragile than many think and the same response would likely be imposed on China should Xi attempt an invasion of Taiwan. Quite frankly, China really doesn't have much to offer.

Both Russia and China are nations in population decline and are not sustainable long term. They're hurting in ways that will likely be exposed before long.


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## backcountry

I hope you are right. The world will be a better place if my pessimism is off base. I'm just not sure China is a good analog since we are so addicted to their less expensive goods. If it came down to brass tacks I'd think we'd win in a economic standoff but we'd surely suffer a lot in the process.

Let's hope we can look back in a few years and realize how wrong I was.


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## High Desert Elk

China relies on the international consumption of cheap goods, most of those are either a decency or a luxury. Where they dominate would be in the chemical market for pharmaceuticals. When push comes to shove, that change could be made to a more domestic friendly environment.

The issue they have with Taiwan, is what Taiwan does is reliant on US technology. The US cuts that off, China is SOL.

I'd be surprised if China tried an invasion during this presidential term. It's timing, if ever, will be dependent on how successful putin is with Ukraine, and he is expending resources he just doesn't have. He may take Ukraine, but he will not keep it. Putin is mortal and the next guy may take a different approach to Russia's world standing. Whoever that is has a lot of damage control to deal with...


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## DallanC

Today we were within $3 of the all time record high gold price (we hit $2,071.70 per oz). We will probably break the record tomorrow. That really shows this is truly inflationary increases, with the dollar's purchasing power diminishing... rapidly.

-DallanC


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## taxidermist

DallanC said:


> Today we were within $3 of the all time record high gold price (we hit $2,071.70 per oz). We will probably break the record tomorrow. That really shows this is truly inflationary increases, with the dollar's purchasing power diminishing... rapidly.
> 
> -DallanC


This is what gets me about gold prices....When the stock volume is low, the gold price will rise to offset the low stock. In 07 just before the housing crash and recession, when the stock volume dipped as low as 9000 (blue light special) is when we saw the increase in gold. It went from $698 to &1200 quick. Now its at $2,017 a jump of $27 overnight. It's strange to see the current DOW at 32000 volume and the gold price never dropped back to say $1000. It should have done so when the market began to climb and stabilize from the low volume. This tells me that a lot of countries were hurting. And then the pandemic hit, floods of panic and luting. I'm waiting to see the TP market go nuts again. 

I think you could see gold reach close to $2600 if this "conflict" carries out for two or more years. The gold is what "stabilizes" the world market values. There is tons of gold deposits in Russia that could be found (if not already found) and and could be used as "backing" for Putin trying to reestablish the USSR. The Rubel may not be worth a Nickle now, but the gold is.

I just wish mankind could show love and care for each other. It shouldn't matter who or where your at on this orbiting rock we call Earth. We are all in it together and just need to cool our heels and take a step in the right direction.


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## Fowlmouth

Maybe truck prices will drop now. I doubt it though. I sold my Ford Superduty in 2020 and haven’t replaced it yet.


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## PBH

fuel economy? Meh.


Try heating your house on propane!!


I'm currently looking for a handyman that can do a remodel job on my [new] house. I need someone that can rip out our gas fireplace and put in a free-standing wood burning stove. We may need to pull down a wall and do some re-framing, then rock work. If anyone is interested, let me know. (I'm serious)


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## Packout

The gas prices around $5 probably will slow us down a little in some ways. If it hits the $7 range I've heard some talking heads espouse then we will still go hunting, but the other trips.... I remember the shipping surcharge when gas hit $4 a few years ago. That was more painful than putting gas in the car. 



PBH said:


> I'm currently looking for a handyman that can do a remodel job on my [new] house. I need someone that can rip out our gas fireplace and put in a free-standing wood burning stove. We may need to pull down a wall and do some re-framing, then rock work. If anyone is interested, let me know. (I'm serious)


That is an expensive endeavor for sure. If you have a 3'x3'-ish area you can place a free standing woodstove and put in a roof jack, then run a painted triple-lined stove pipe. Probably save around $10k in todays market and keep both.


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## PBH

Packout said:


> That is an expensive endeavor for sure. If you have a 3'x3'-ish area you can place a free standing woodstove and put in a roof jack, then run a painted triple-lined stove pipe. Probably save around $10k in todays market and keep both.


I keep having people tell me that it's going to be expensive -- I translate that into "that's not easy, and we have a ton of other easy work building cookie cutter apartments".

So, again, I'm looking for a handyman that can do a remodel job on my [new] house. I need someone that can rip out our gas fireplace and put in a free-standing wood burning stove. We may need to pull down a wall and do some re-framing, then rock work. If anyone is interested, let me know. (I'm serious - and I understand it's going to be some work and cost some money)


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## Critter

I would actually leave the gas burning furnace, it may be good insurance in the case that something happens and you are not able to get the cords of wood that you need stockpiled. 

Have you sat down and looked at your floor plan to see just where a nice wood burner could sit at?


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## DallanC

If you have any source of bulk free old oil... I'd set up an wood / oil burner stove. One youtube channel I really enjoy is a transmission rebuilder. They save all the old oil and just burn it in the winter for free heat in the shop. It works great for them. Lots of plans on the internet, its a really simple setup.

-DallanC


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## middlefork




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## PBH

middlefork said:


> View attachment 151381




Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.


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## PBH

Critter said:


> I would actually leave the gas burning furnace, it may be good insurance in the case that something happens and you are not able to get the cords of wood that you need stockpiled.


I have 3 gas furnaces in the house already. The issue isn't being able to keep the house warm -- the issue is how much propane I burn.

Add the gas fireplace to the mix, and I have an aesthetically pleasing appliance that burns additional propane but does not provide any additional heat. The goal (long term) is to supplement the furnace(s) with an alternative fuel (wood or pellets) that can actually provide some heat and reduce the amount of propane being burned. $2.75+ per gallon of propane / 500 gallon tank. If I burn through 200 gallons in 4 weeks (which we do when daytime temps are in the teens)....

....well, I'll let you do the math....




Critter said:


> Have you sat down and looked at your floor plan to see just where a nice wood burner could sit at?


Yep. right in front of the existing gas fireplace. Seriously. This is the center of our home, and would provide the best place - It would also be in a good location to utilize the air returns for the two forced air systems that cover the main floor, distributing that warm air throughout the house.


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## Critter

I'd find a stove shop and have them come out and take a look, they may have installers who could take care of all of your needs.


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## taxidermist

Have you considered the expense on gasoline to go out to cut your own wood, chainsaw gas/bar oil, etc. Depending on how far a drive you have to get the wood, it could potentially cost more than the propane. Do yo have the stove now or will you have to buy it? Lots to think about for sure. A wood stove is a great way to heat and cook if the utilities are out for a while.


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## Vanilla

PBH getting the business on this one! 

Guy wants a wood burning stove. And with the boat he drives and camo he wears, he can clearly afford it!


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## Critter

taxidermist said:


> Have you considered the expense on gasoline to go out to cut your own wood, chainsaw gas/bar oil, etc. Depending on how far a drive you have to get the wood, it could potentially cost more than the propane. Do yo have the stove now or will you have to buy it? Lots to think about for sure. A wood stove is a great way to heat and cook if the utilities are out for a while.


Back in my younger days I would cut and split around 10 full cords of wood a year to heat my home. The time outdoors more than paid for the gas and the time that I spent doing it. 

Then as I got older I got tired of all the work and took out the two wood burners that I had in my home. I just sold the last one last fall after it sat around for 15 or so years. But I still head up into the hills where I used to cut wood, just not as much. But cutting and splitting that wood kept me in shape for the hunting seasons.


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## DallanC

Solar panels + 110v inverter + rechargable chainsaw + golf cart = free firewood, no fuel costs.

LOL...

-DallanC


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## middlefork

The one I posted above was a DIY project. Not particularly difficult to do. It may be pretty simple to fill the hole left from removing the current fire place by just framing the hole and finishing it flush with the wall. If the current fireplace has a vent to the outside you may be able to just follow that line with triple wall chimney.

Funny thing about the stove in the picture, it was one a friend removed from his house so he could put in a gas fireplace. With all the no burn rules along the front it is pretty hard anymore to heat with wood.


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## PBH

taxidermist said:


> Have you considered the expense on gasoline to go out to cut your own wood, chainsaw gas/bar oil, etc. Depending on how far a drive you have to get the wood, it could potentially cost more than the propane...



The jury is still out on whether I would go with a wood burner vs. a pellet burner. Both have pros and cons. The pellets are super convenient, and eliminate those issues mentioned by taxidermist. However, if the electricity goes out my furnaces and pellet burner go out too. So, now we have to consider solar (Vanilla's tax bracket) and generators (on the wish list).

To answer taxidermist's question: yes, those factors have been considered.

Critter -- I've spoken with 2 fireplace dealers. Both said the same thing: We'd love to sell you a stove. We'll even install it for you. But you have to remove the old fireplace on your own....


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## PBH

My wife has an aunt in Reno. She has an antique radio and washing machine that my wife has wanted for a long time. Her aunt is giving them to her for FREE!

so my wife is going to pay $5+/gallon diesel to drive my truck to Reno to pick up her aunts junk and bring it back to our house.
🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️


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## bthewilde

taxidermist said:


> So, Europe is reliant on 94% of its oil from Russia. Our friends across the pond are really going to feel the pain of fuel prices. I don't see it ending very soon with all this world upheaval.


I listen to an economics podcast that talked about this, the US is set up for Sour Crude and then we produce Sweet Crude. Then Europe is set up to refine Sweet, but produce Sour. It's all backwards thanks to the 90's and a change in Fracking methods. Crazy....


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## Catherder

Packout said:


> If you have a 3'x3'-ish area you can place a free standing woodstove and put in a roof jack, then run a painted triple-lined stove pipe. Probably save around $10k in todays market and keep both.


This is what my parents did a few years before my dad passed on. Mom still loves her wood burning stove to this day and it wasn't technically too demanding to do. I too have a wood burning stove, but it is installed in the fireplace slot. They are nice to have.


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## Packout

PBH said:


> I've spoken with 2 fireplace dealers. Both said the same thing: We'd love to sell you a stove. We'll even install it for you. But you have to remove the old fireplace on your own....


Don't they have google in Cedar?


cedar city hvac repair - Google Search



Once the gas appliance and gas line are out then someone will become more available to deal with the rest. And feel free to insert your first statement for a 3rd time if you don't like the advice. ; )


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## PBH

Packout said:


> Don't they have google in Cedar?


Cedar Valley heating recommended a heat pump.
One of the other places recommended a larger gas fireplace.
So I got that going for me.




middlefork said:


> The one I posted above was a DIY project. Not particularly difficult to do. It may be pretty simple to fill the hole left from removing the current fire place by just framing the hole and finishing it flush with the wall. If the current fireplace has a vent to the outside you may be able to just follow that line with triple wall chimney.


This is exactly what I want done. The existing fireplace vents straight up through a framed cavity out the roof - and my attic is easily accessible. The issue might be clearances inside the cavity.

So, yep -- I'll keep looking. Thanks Pack.


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## DallanC

The worst part of my house is the Heat-a-lator wood stove. Thing leaks cold air like you left a window open. Flu is closed, and I have cardboard under all the vent grills I can get off. Haven't had an actual fire in it in almost 20 years.

-DallanC


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> My wife has an aunt in Reno. She has an antique radio and washing machine that my wife has wanted for a long time. Her aunt is giving them to her for FREE!
> 
> so my wife is going to pay $5+/gallon diesel to drive my truck to Reno to pick up her aunts junk and bring it back to our house.
> 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️


Pick me up in Utah County and we'll make a few days out of it...hit a little lake nearby as part of the deal. I'm just coming along for moral support, of course! 

Bring a ladder.


----------



## DallanC

LOL... $1.49 per mile






-DallanC


----------



## 2full

The gas prices do have me rethinking my buffalo tag over at the Henry's. I put in for a cow tag. (I have about 3-4 points over high point apps the last couple of years). I figured I better get it done while I still can. 
Now.....can I afford the gas to go back and forth to get to know the area. 😁


----------



## colorcountrygunner

I just filled up my 1500 dodge ram from 1/8th of a tank just now. Not quite the buggering johnnycake got from filling up his F350 but the pump still slapped me, spit in my mouth, stomped my groin with high heels and callously ignored my desperate wails and screams of the previously agreed upon safety word. What a stupid experience.


----------



## 3arabians

Got back from las Vegas the other day from the nascar race. Drug the 5th wheel down with my F350 diesel and camped in the infield for 4 days with the family including the dog. Helluva a good time if you’re a beer drinking race fan like me. 

Anyway, filled up for $4.19 before we left in clearfield. Topped off in beaver for $4.79 on the way down. (thought that was really high) Topped off for $5.19!!!  on the way out at the love’s truck stop just out side of Vegas and then purchased just enough to make it the rest of the way home in scipio at $4.89! Im embarrassed to give the total but trust me, it was ALOT. Like Johnny said, I’m still walking funny. 

I’m parking my truck for as long as I can now.


----------



## taxidermist

PBH said:


> My wife has an aunt in Reno. She has an antique radio and washing machine that my wife has wanted for a long time. Her aunt is giving them to her for FREE!
> 
> so my wife is going to pay $5+/gallon diesel to drive my truck to Reno to pick up her aunts junk and bring it back to our house.
> 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️


She might hit the jackpot and you could live on a yacht in near Baja Mexico and not worry about the wood for heat.


----------



## paddler

taxidermist said:


> So, Europe is reliant on 94% of its oil from Russia. Our friends across the pond are really going to feel the pain of fuel prices. I don't see it ending very soon with all this world upheaval.


Actually, Europe imports about 40% of its gas and a little more than a quarter of its oil from Russia. So they will bear the brunt of sanctions more than the US.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> Pick me up in Utah County and we'll make a few days out of it...hit a little lake nearby as part of the deal. I'm just coming along for moral support, of course!
> 
> Bring a ladder.


Where are you picking us all up, PBH? 

I can provide the ladder.


----------



## Catherder

backcountry said:


> Where are you picking us all up, PBH?
> 
> I can provide the ladder.


Silly Backcountry, every person coming needs to bring their own ladder. 

I wanna come too. Will $20 be enough for gas money?


----------



## Vanilla

Catherder said:


> Silly Backcountry, every person coming needs to bring their own ladder.
> 
> I wanna come too. Will $20 be enough for gas money?


PBH is covering gas. He already said so.

And I’m not sharing my chair! But I’ll share some flies. And snacks.


----------



## 2full

I have an extra ladder, can I go ??


----------



## backcountry

S. Utah is the starting location so I think we fair pretty well in a first come first served scenario. 

I remember an old "Red Green" episode where they designed a device to change tires while still moving. It involved ladders. I'm sure Catherder and Vanilla could get creative lessons from the video attached:


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> PBH is covering gas. He already said so.


We call that a sunk cost. Overhead. It's being paid whether you guys join or not. So, first come / first serve it is.




BUT -- fair warning: my mother-in-law is coming....


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> BUT -- fair warning: my mother-in-law is coming....


That's fine, as long as I don't have to share my ladder.


----------



## Critter

Catherder said:


> That's fine, as long as I don't have to share my ladder.


The naked choke hold comes to mind


----------



## Catherder

Critter said:


> The naked choke hold comes to mind


That is Nilla's department.


----------



## backcountry

Fishing trips will now resemble:


----------



## Vanilla

PBH, you’re missing the point here. You’re going to be an amazing husband and son-in-law by just taking one for the team. You are not going to make your wife and mother in law drove to Reno, especially with the chance of bad weather, and you’ll just go do it. It’s going to take 4-5 days to get it done, however.

Pull a trailer. What time do I need to be ready?

Bring your ladder.


----------



## DallanC

PBH said:


> BUT -- fair warning: my mother-in-law is coming....


??????









-DallanC


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Wallmart Market gas station in SF today. Remember, we're not even at the summer time price hike yet. I need to buy a boatload of those "I did that" stickers. It's true, and it blows my mind how anyone can defend that demented geriatric. Anyone who actually voted for that clown, owes the rust of us gas money. This is going to kill the American economy. Nevermind the supply chain issues. The cost of EVERYTHING is about to go up, bigtime. Food in particular. I wonder how long free shipping on online purchases is going to last. I doubt it can, the cost has to be recuped somehow.


----------



## Vanilla

My comment before about how these price increases were set in motion in April of 2020 should not be viewed as a defense of President Biden or any of his misguided policies. It should only be viewed as what it is: a factual statement. These planned reductions over the last couple years are still impacting what we are seeing today. So again, if we are going to blame people, let's blame EVERYONE that has had a part, and not just those we view as political enemies. If we care about being honest and factual. I realize I may be naïve thinking anyone does anymore. 

Just so we don't have revisionist history, here are a few articles to remind us what happened: 









Trump plays key role in brokering historic oil deal


The world's largest oil producers agreed to a historic production cut of almost 10 million barrels per day.




www.foxbusiness.com
 












Oil Nations, Prodded by Trump, Reach Deal to Slash Production (Published 2020)


The deal will reduce output by 9.7 million barrels a day. While significant, the cut falls far short of what is needed to bring oil production in line with demand.




www.nytimes.com













Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources


By Timothy Gardner, Steve Holland, Dmitry Zhdannikov and Rania El Gamal




www.reuters.com


----------



## paddler

Lone_Hunter said:


> Wallmart Market gas station in SF today. Remember, we're not even at the summer time price hike yet. I need to buy a boatload of those "I did that" stickers. It's true, and it blows my mind how anyone can defend that demented geriatric. Anyone who actually voted for that clown, owes the rust of us gas money. This is going to kill the American economy. Nevermind the supply chain issues. The cost of EVERYTHING is about to go up, bigtime. Food in particular. I wonder how long free shipping on online purchases is going to last. I doubt it can, the cost has to be recuped somehow.
> View attachment 151395


This post is not only factually incorrect on many levels, but also politically charged. You are hopelessly misinformed, LH.


----------



## paddler

Vanilla said:


> My comment before about how these price increases were set in motion in April of 2020 should not be viewed as a defense of President Biden or any of his misguided policies. It should only be viewed as what it is: a factual statement. These planned reductions over the last couple years are still impacting what we are seeing today. So again, if we are going to blame people, let's blame EVERYONE that has had a part, and not just those we view as political enemies. If we care about being honest and factual. I realize I may be naïve thinking anyone does anymore.
> 
> Just so we don't have revisionist history, here are a few articles to remind us what happened:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump plays key role in brokering historic oil deal
> 
> 
> The world's largest oil producers agreed to a historic production cut of almost 10 million barrels per day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxbusiness.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil Nations, Prodded by Trump, Reach Deal to Slash Production (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> The deal will reduce output by 9.7 million barrels a day. While significant, the cut falls far short of what is needed to bring oil production in line with demand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources
> 
> 
> By Timothy Gardner, Steve Holland, Dmitry Zhdannikov and Rania El Gamal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


"Misguided policies" is your opinion, and not universally shared. Popular here as this site is populated by many right wingers, not the most informed crowd. I could go on, but suspect a post or two here will be edited.


----------



## bowgy




----------



## paddler

Deleted.


----------



## DallanC

Vanilla said:


> My comment before about how these price increases were set in motion in April of 2020 should not be viewed as a defense of President Biden or any of his misguided policies. It should only be viewed as what it is: a factual statement. These planned reductions over the last couple years are still impacting what we are seeing today. So again, if we are going to blame people, let's blame EVERYONE that has had a part, and not just those we view as political enemies. If we care about being honest and factual. I realize I may be naïve thinking anyone does anymore.
> 
> Just so we don't have revisionist history, here are a few articles to remind us what happened:


How about if we are going to be honest and factual... you know, we cover all of the facts? At least show some context.

*What was the cost of oil again when Trump did this? Oh yea, it was BELOW ZERO*. The US oil production was on the ropes. Can you imagine the state of things today if our oil industry was allowed to collapse... or if a bailout had occurred to keep them afloat.

I dont know what the "sweet spot" price is for oil prices to benefit consumers as well as producers. But its definitely above $0 a barrel and probably well below what it is today.

-DallanC


----------



## Vanilla

You are not wrong, Dallan. However, that still contributed to where we are today on gas prices. Good, bad, or indifferent, it has objectively contributed to where we are today on prices at the pump. And that is all I’m saying. Plenty of blame to go around on this one outside of a clever sticker placed on a pump.


----------



## paddler

Saw a report yesterday the showed the percentage of family income spent on gas today is actually less than a few years ago. Also, a survey yesterday showed that 71% of Americans ore okay with paying more at the pump in order to support Ukraine and end Putin's unprovoked invasion, the attendant atrocities and his war crimes. Count me in that majority. 

I would favor a more aggressive military posture. Just imagine what a squadron or two of F-35s could do, especially if we could send in some A-10s after decimating Russia's air defenses.


----------



## backcountry

Vanilla said:


> My comment before about how these price increases were set in motion in April of 2020 should not be viewed as a defense of President Biden or any of his misguided policies. It should only be viewed as what it is: a factual statement. These planned reductions over the last couple years are still impacting what we are seeing today. So again, if we are going to blame people, let's blame EVERYONE that has had a part, and not just those we view as political enemies. If we care about being honest and factual. I realize I may be naïve thinking anyone does anymore.
> 
> Just so we don't have revisionist history, here are a few articles to remind us what happened:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump plays key role in brokering historic oil deal
> 
> 
> The world's largest oil producers agreed to a historic production cut of almost 10 million barrels per day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxbusiness.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil Nations, Prodded by Trump, Reach Deal to Slash Production (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> The deal will reduce output by 9.7 million barrels a day. While significant, the cut falls far short of what is needed to bring oil production in line with demand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources
> 
> 
> By Timothy Gardner, Steve Holland, Dmitry Zhdannikov and Rania El Gamal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


This outcome is so multifaceted. 

Biden undoubtedly played to a certain base with several decisions and if he doesn't transition more fully to a wartime posture (not troops/planes, just NATO united front) then he, and many down ticket will pay the price.

And .... Trump, Obama & Bush also laid certain foundational groundwork for this global scenario. So many dominos.

I am tired of my most progressive friends trying to tell me it's selfish to admit prices are painful WHILE also supporting the sanctions. We can foster a shared sacrifice while also being honest and our household is already altering our year's plans. And that's the relatively easy part. Most people I know don't have much wiggle room left in their budget if heating prices continue to rise W/OUT massive implications to our economy. 

If we don't increase production to wean NATO (plus many others) countries off Russian fuels than we haven't seen the last of this type of behavior. There is a reason several countries applied for EU admission in the last 2 months.

It's a real shame we aren't seeing this as a chance to unite and repair. Shared sacrifice and such a profound moral cause could be a powerful catalyst to heal our country's wounds. I still hold out hope for the months (years?) to come with this crisis but the level of negative partisanship is just mind boggling.


----------



## paddler

backcountry said:


> This outcome is so multifaceted.
> 
> Biden undoubtedly played to a certain base with several decisions and if he doesn't transition more fully to a wartime posture (not troops/planes, just NATO united front) then he, and many down ticket will pay the price.
> 
> And .... Trump, Obama & Bush also laid certain foundational groundwork for this global scenario. So many dominos.
> 
> I am tired of my most progressive friends trying to tell me it's selfish to admit prices are painful WHILE also supporting the sanctions. We can foster a shared sacrifice while also being honest and our household is already altering our year's plans. And that's the relatively easy part. Most people I know don't have much wiggle room left in their budget if heating prices continue to rise W/OUT massive implications to our economy.
> 
> If we don't increase production to wean NATO (plus many others) countries off Russian fuels than we haven't seen the last of this type of behavior. There is a reason several countries applied for EU admission in the last 2 months.
> 
> It's a real shame we aren't seeing this as a chance to unite and repair. Shared sacrifice and such a profound moral cause could be a powerful catalyst to heal our country's wounds. I still hold out hope for the months (years?) to come with this crisis but the level of negative partisanship is just mind boggling.


Not sure what you mean about Biden's response to the invasion. You seem to imply he has been reticent, while most credit him with bringing NATO together, resulting in severe sanctions and supplying Ukraine with both lethal arms and humanitarian aid. What would you do differently? 

Also, just contemplate what would have happened if the previous administration was still in power.


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Looks like someone on my ignore list got their feathers ruffled.


----------



## paddler

Lone_Hunter said:


> Looks like someone on my ignore list got their feathers ruffled.
> 
> View attachment 151400


Not at all, I consider the source. Perhaps if you read more and were actually informed we could have a real debate. I don't see that happening.


----------



## johnnycake

paddler said:


> I would favor a more aggressive military posture. Just imagine what a squadron or two of F-35s could do, especially if we could send in some A-10s after decimating Russia's air defenses.


Do you want to see just how serious Putin's resolve is to use Russian nukes? As awful as the invasion of Ukraine has been, with the US being under no treaty obligation to defend it against Russia I just don't see how playing nuclear chicken with the Crone of the Kremlin is in anybody's best interests.


----------



## paddler

johnnycake said:


> Do you want to see just how serious Putin's resolve is to use Russian nukes? As awful as the invasion of Ukraine has been, with the US being under no treaty obligation to defend it against Russia I just don't see how playing nuclear chicken with the Crone of the Kremlin is in anybody's best interests.


That's the consensus of NATO, our State Department, the Pentagon and Biden and all the experts. I'll defer. I'd be happy if we could just provide more powerful air defense systems than our Stingers. The British will be sending the STARstreaks, which are effective I think up to about 23,000'. Maybe Patriots? We also need to give the Ukrainians the abiity to take out their towed artillery and rocket launchers. Not sure how to do that if the Russians have the S400s in Ukraine. I just have a very difficult time watching Putin attack a sovereign country with impunity. I want him to stand trial at the Hague, spend the rest of his miserable life in prison, and hold Russia responsible for full reparations.


----------



## Catherder

backcountry said:


> It's a real shame we aren't seeing this as a chance to unite and repair. Shared sacrifice and such a profound moral cause could be a powerful catalyst to heal our country's wounds. I still hold out hope for the months (years?) to come with this crisis but the level of negative partisanship is just mind boggling.


This is true. I have to admit I was incensed this weekend when politicians on the right clamored all week for Biden to do more sanctions, including the Russian oil ban and then immediately afterwards started the "It's all Biden's fault" for the gas prices when he did so. (FWIW, I'm largely of similar opinion to Nilla that there is copious blame to go around for gas prices, including Putin!, which hasn't seemed to get mentioned here, but it was clearly part of his invasion calculus, such that it was.) 

I think outrage is a helluva drug as the usual partisans on UWN demonstrate over and over again.


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Establishment is what's pushing it. Left or right, doesn't matter, it's the establishment. They ALL need to go. I think they are going to get us into another war - and it's exactly what they want. I won't get into why, its too far into politics, but it can be summerized in one word: Power.

Going somewhat back on topic, from everything i've heard, expect to see anywhere between 7 to 9 dollars a gallon before the end of the year. If the KeystoneXL pipeline wasn't canceled, if new leases were being/had been issued to drill / frak for oil, we wouldn't be in this mess. We went from being an oil exporter, to begging Venezuela (russian ally) and Iran I think as well, to open their spigots. The stupidy is mind boggling. Jimmy Carter should rest well when he finally goes.


----------



## wyogoob

Diesel hit $5.29 at one of the gas stations here in the southwest Wyoming part of Utah.

Do these high gas prices mean you fellas from Utah will carpool when dozens, perhaps tens of thousands, of you hit the Wyoming waters this Spring?

Uh....in before the lock.


----------



## wyogoob

Gasoline may hit $7.50 a gallon by the start of the Wyoming big game hunting season. Does this mean that my non-resident colleagues, who have been building up Wyoming Big Game Preference points since like 1968, will walk while hunting? 
My Conservative friends here are saying they'll just road hunt until fuel prices hit $10.00 a gallon.
I'm not making this up, I have Conservative friends.


----------



## wyogoob

Lone_Hunter said:


> Establishment is what's pushing it. Left or right, doesn't matter, it's the establishment. They ALL need to go. I think they are going to get us into another war - and it's exactly what they want. I won't get into why, its too far into politics, but it can be summerized in one word: Power.
> 
> Going somewhat back on topic, from everything i've heard, expect to see anywhere between 7 to 9 dollars a gallon before the end of the year. If the KeystoneXL pipeline wasn't canceled, if new leases were being/had been issued to drill / frak for oil, we wouldn't be in this mess. We went from being an oil exporter, to begging Venezuela (russian ally) and Iran I think as well, to open their spigots. The stupidy is mind boggling. Jimmy Carter should rest well when he finally goes.
> 
> View attachment 151401


For over 50 years I worked in oil n gas, pipelines, refineries, chemical plants, paper n power...all those things that wreck(ed) the planet. 

Worked a bunch at one of the biggest oil refineries in the Western Hemisphere that used Venezuelan crude so I'm particularly interested in USA/Venezuelan oil discussions........Uh...never mind, it has little, or nothing, to do with Utah outdoors.


----------



## wyogoob

I own three string trimmers, which also has nothing to do with Utah outdoors, sorry.


----------



## taxidermist

wyogoob said:


> I own three string trimmers, which also has nothing to do with Utah outdoors, sorry.


I got four.  

Sold the electric car, solar panels, put red diesel in the tractor, track hoes, skid steer, roller, sweeper, vibrator and fire them up and make thousands of $$$ a day laying the infrastructure for thousands of homes being built from wood that are destroying the forests and piss in the lake when I go fishing. Fishing is still part of the UWN conversations I think.


----------



## taxidermist

This thread is just getting juicy. Hope it's not shut down to soon.


----------



## colorcountrygunner

I'm destroying the planet at a breakneck pace doing what I do for a living. But the transition to green energy is going to require a whole passel of copper I hear, so it balances out. Sometimes Karl Malone comes on company property and shoots trophy animals while he rides around in a side by side wearing slippers and smoking cigars. #hunting#conservation#32


----------



## Catherder

wyogoob said:


> Diesel hit $5.29 at one of the gas stations here in the southwest Wyoming part of Utah.
> 
> Do these high gas prices mean you fellas from Utah will carpool when dozens, perhaps tens of thousands, of you hit the Wyoming waters this Spring?


You might have a few fewer anglers this spring, but I also think the Northeastern Utah Special Economic District will also sell a lot less fireworks, beer, smokes, and lottery tickets too. I hope your tax base will remain stable. 
As has been mentioned though, liquor stores in proximity to the fuel plazas might come through better.


----------



## backcountry

taxidermist said:


> I got four.
> 
> 
> 
> Sold the electric car, solar panels, put red diesel in the tractor, track hoes, skid steer, roller, sweeper, vibrator and fire them up and make thousands of $$$ a day laying the infrastructure for thousands of homes being built from wood that are destroying the forests and piss in the lake when I go fishing. Fishing is still part of the UWN conversations I think.



Wait, is pissing in the lake frowned upon?

And, they make "vibrators" that don't require combustion engines "now" (last 75 years?)

Ultimate "In Before the Lock"


----------



## wyogoob

taxidermist said:


> I got four.
> 
> Sold the electric car, solar panels, put red diesel in the tractor, track hoes, skid steer, roller, sweeper, vibrator and fire them up and make thousands of $$$ a day laying the infrastructure for thousands of homes being built from wood that are destroying the forests and piss in the lake when I go fishing. Fishing is still part of the UWN conversations I think.


Sure....and crude oil is made from dinosaur turds. That's kinda Utah, kinda outdoorsy.

Did you guys know that a lot of brands of vinegar come from crude oil?


----------



## backcountry

Goob,

Why did you bait me to go down that rabbit hole?


----------



## Steve G

I expect fuel prices to return to lower levels before fall.


----------



## DallanC

Steve G said:


> I expect fuel prices to return to lower levels before fall.


That's what people said about Primers... 2 years ago. Manufacturer price is now double on what little is being sold. There's still no end at all in sight for the shortage for most primer brands and types.

I'm really starting to see the justification for the financial and economic analysts who are saying this current mess will last a good 10 years before it unwinds. I just dont know how people on the financial ragged edge are going to survive whats coming... they probably won't.

-DallanC


----------



## colorcountrygunner

Don't worry, you guys. All this inflation is "transitory". The people on the news even said so.


----------



## wyogoob

taxidermist said:


> I got four.
> 
> Sold the electric car, solar panels, put red diesel in the tractor, track hoes, skid steer, roller, sweeper, vibrator and fire them up and make thousands of $$$ a day laying the infrastructure for thousands of homes being built from wood that are destroying the forests and piss in the lake when I go fishing. Fishing is still part of the UWN conversations I think.


Wow, cool. I'm familiar with red diesel, making thousands of $$$ a day and vibrators. That's about it.


----------



## taxidermist

colorcountrygunner said:


> Don't worry, you guys. All this inflation is "transitory". The people on the news even said so.


You believe the news reporters????? Oh crap..... "Fake News".


----------



## taxidermist

wyogoob said:


> Wow, cool. I'm familiar with red diesel, making thousands of $$$ a day and vibrators. That's about it.


Sell a ton of them at the store next to your house.


----------



## paddler

I filled up my Expedition a couple of weeks ago and have driven just 90 miles since. Drove up to REI last Saturday to pick up my new canoe. It's just a few miles away and I haven't driven it since. Retirement is good. 

I expect prices to return towards normal once Putin's head is on a pike, which won't come soon enough. In the interim, I'll just continue hunting and fishing as usual.


----------



## johnnycake

I'm convinced that the ptarmy bastages are behind all of this. 

They are making one last stand to try and prevent Ava and I from killing over 200 of their kin before the season ends. But little do they know that Amex sent me a steel card so it doesn't melt as quickly when I start swiping it.


----------



## DallanC

A quart of Amsoil 2 stroke snowmobile oil turns a tank of red diesel blue... just say'n.

-DallanC


----------



## backcountry

johnnycake said:


> I'm convinced that the ptarmy bastages are behind all of this.
> 
> They are making one last stand to try and prevent Ava and I from killing over 200 of their kin before the season ends. But little do they know that Amex sent me a steel card so it doesn't melt as quickly when I start swiping it.


I'm starting to think buying Alaska from Russia was a poor idea. But no one could have predicted Braggart Thanos or Rainbow Bears.


----------



## johnnycake

backcountry said:


> I'm starting to think buying Alaska from Russia was a poor idea. But no one could have predicted Braggart Thanos or Rainbow Bears.


This winter has been weird, instead of groups of at least 10 birds with flocks over 50 being common, like is normal for winter, all I seem to be finding are singles and doubles with the odd quartet. Makes it tough to kill 10 birds before the 8' of powder wear us both out. We're way behind schedule on our typical slaughter tally.


----------



## wyogoob

taxidermist said:


> Sell a ton of them at the store next to your house.


RUsure? How do you know that?


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Might not be a bad idea to keep your Jerry cans full with some fuel preserver in them. Just be mindful how you store them.


----------



## taxidermist

wyogoob said:


> RUsure? How do you know that?


Goob....You do know I'm "messing" with you,,,,right??? I figured you lived close to Romantix or whatever it's called. You know, the store that stays open from the Utah dollars being spent there.

For what it's worth, there isn't a thing we can do about the price of fuel we have to pay at the pump. It's a necessary evil. Similar to a crack addict needing the fix for the moment. Talking with the Wife yesterday about the cost of gas and my voice volume rose and I began to get heated. She wrapped the BP band on me and my BP had rose. After 30 minutes talking about us and whatnot, she took it again and it was back to normal.

I'll pay more attention to the trips I make during the week and try to condense them to one or two for groceries, etc.

I just hope something gives and the high prices wont be for long. Positive thinking is easier to deal with than negative, and, its better for my health.


----------



## High Desert Elk

backcountry said:


> And what happens if we have another cyber attack on pipelines like last year? Do we really think Putin is "stable enough" to not escalate his non-military strategy against those boycotting them or supporting Ukraine? It's not just the war but Putin's absolute disregard for any sort of foreign stability that has me concerned. The pipeline was down for less than a week last year and had lingering affects. A few strategic cyber attacks during critical tourism season would have significant impacts to US quality of life.
> 
> And we had multiple leaks/spills last year. Take 8-10% of world supply off the market (at least for NATO countries) from here on and add any problems we've had in the recent past to the equation and the future looks a little stark.
> 
> Fingers crossed my pessimism is wrong. Maybe GasBuddy's prediction is correct and prices will drop after memorial day. But I'm not betting on it.


Working in the power generation industry, there has been a lot of talk and effort put into grid protection from cyber attacks. Those same conversations and efforts have been getting applied to pipelines as well.

The turning point on price at the pump will be if/when the EU broker's a deal with the UAE for oil, at their price of course, leaving Russia with no where else to go but to China to offload. The issue is, China has a lot of problems many not may be aware of. The Arab Nation may not allow China to obtain oil from them or allow them to access Russia's offloading in their ports and there aren't a whole of other ports necessarily friendly to China. China is a long, long ways from that region of the world. China's alternate is to obtain oil from Russia's Pacific offload, but China can only get so much. With Russia's pipeline stopped at flowing the oil it does to the EU, it cause a backpressure in its oil producing field. Many of those wells in the Siberian permafrost regions, if they stop flowing, may never produce again.

I think Russia is really starting to feel the pinch, but maybe not until we see a much higher price in oil only because of everything else that affects its production and use. It's certainly not because there is a shortage or we (the US) are behind in production. The US is producing a million bpd more than two years ago right now.

The US has the resources it needs for decades to come, we just have to be willing to use it. The transition to "cleaner" energy is a process and definitely not an overnight accomplishment. We have missed out on a valuable opportunity to use natural gas generation (much cleaner than coal) by "warp-speeding" renewables that have been fairly stagnant in its goal. The best outlook overall is to use smaller nuclear and natural gas for base load with renewables and battery storage for peak. When storage for peak is a little low, you crank up the natural gas for that window.

With much fewer emissions to generate power, the impact of the I.C.E. would be much more minimal. Balance that with the common sense use of more electric transportation in metro areas where the infrastructure actually exists and the skies will be clear going forward...


----------



## taxidermist

There is a cost to the environment to use "renewable resources" though. Take solar energy for example. The panels are primarily made from Cobalt. Where is the Cobalt mined? Africa has the largest deposits. So as long as we destroy someone else's lands and out of sight out of mind from the U.S.A. it's all good? And the process to get the cobalt uses fossil fuel reliant equipment to extract it. And....a life expectancy of panel is only 10 years.

Wind farms are another example of so called "clean energy". They have to be wired to transmit the electrical energy produced and that is with copper wire. Copper is mined using fossil fuel equipment. Look at Kennecott, that entire mountain has been overturned and looks nothing like it did at one time. What about the dust particles entering the air from the open pit? That doesn't have a negative impact on the environment?

"Clean Energy" isn't clean at all. It may be clean after the destruction of the land to get the recipe to bake the cake, but the general public doesn't see that side of it and the powers that be, sure wont show it. They will keep pushing for it and telling the people it's the greatest thing to happen.

We cant turn the clock back on the pollution, global warming and negative impacts man has created. But, we can begin to slow down the impact we are placing on the globe.

Don't get me started on the mining effects on the environment to make lithium ion batteries. Bidden wants to push for electrical vehicles reliant on the manufacturing of batteries, yet he shuts down the fracking? Even the EPA under the Obama/ Bidden administration in 2016 couldn't confirm that fracking was the result of faucets being lit on fire. I could go on, but I don't have all day to do it.


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## backcountry

We have a fair obligation to finally go do my MIL's ceremony in CA now that covid is calming down. Last time we went we estimated $3.50/gallon and came in w/ money to spare. Now we'd be wise to plan on $7-8/gallon and a total RT gas budget between $600-900, depending on traffic and side trips. Never imagined considering such costs when we delayed it because of Delta last year.


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## Lone_Hunter

taxidermist said:


> There is a cost to the environment to use "renewable resources" though. Take solar energy for example. The panels are primarily made from Cobalt. Where is the Cobalt mined? Africa has the largest deposits. So as long as we destroy someone else's lands and out of sight out of mind from the U.S.A. it's all good? And the process to get the cobalt uses fossil fuel reliant equipment to extract it. And....a life expectancy of panel is only 10 years.
> 
> Wind farms are another example of so called "clean energy". They have to be wired to transmit the electrical energy produced and that is with copper wire. Copper is mined using fossil fuel equipment. Look at Kennecott, that entire mountain has been overturned and looks nothing like it did at one time. What about the dust particles entering the air from the open pit? That doesn't have a negative impact on the environment?
> 
> "Clean Energy" isn't clean at all. It may be clean after the destruction of the land to get the recipe to bake the cake, but the general public doesn't see that side of it and the powers that be, sure wont show it. They will keep pushing for it and telling the people it's the greatest thing to happen.
> 
> We cant turn the clock back on the pollution, global warming and negative impacts man has created. But, we can begin to slow down the impact we are placing on the globe.
> 
> Don't get me started on the mining effects on the environment to make lithium ion batteries. Bidden wants to push for electrical vehicles reliant on the manufacturing of batteries, yet he shuts down the fracking? Even the EPA under the Obama/ Bidden administration in 2016 couldn't confirm that fracking was the result of faucets being lit on fire. I could go on, but I don't have all day to do it.


I'd add that all those electronic cars their pushing are being charged from city power, and it's my understanding the power generated is primarily from coal fired plants. Additionally, i question the efficacy of solar and wind farms, because of the vast amount of land they take up or have to clear in order to generate enough power. Nevermind the mining for the materials it takes to create those items to begin with.

And battery disposal. Litihiam ion batteries. Cars take a huge battery. I can't imagine the size of battery it would take to power say, a semi truck, should they ever come out with one that runs on electricity.

Renewable resources, I just don't see having the "punch" neccessary to power modern society in all it's facets. The entire logistical system requires fossil fuels. You can't distribute food and goods across the country without it. Even Trains require it. (Diesel -electric powered) On a small scale solar and wind is great. Solar panels on a house assuming you have the battery bank to store the power, or solar panels on a jackery charger. I wish we had the money to put some panels on our house honestly.

What I don't get, is this push to get off fossil fuels entirely. The talking heads have already slipped and said the quiet part out loud. They want to transition everyone to renewables, seemingly right away, as if we can afford that when even used cars are 40% higher in cost due to inflation and demand. If that is the case, they are fervent idealouges, because that type of transition can't be done on the turn of a dime, nor in the near feature. Fossil fuels is what has made modern life possible, period. The human population far exceeded the carrying capacity of the land a long time ago. In reference to modern agriculture, oil is why we are all here, honestly. 

Beyond that, the environmentalists in the states can scream, cry, bloviate, whatever all they want, but it's not going to make any difference. Do they think Russia is going to go green? How about China? HELL NO. They're going to keep on doing what they've been doing. We hamstring ourselves, and they maintain their economic blood. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even have an EPA over there. When i was stationed in Korea in the mid 90's, they had no EPA over there then. People here would be amazed at what went down the storm drain. Until every country on the planet is onboard with green energy, nothing's going to change the overall larger picture. Kind of ironic since i'll wager most are buying stuff made in countries that are polluting far , far, far more then we do.

It is far better to figure out how to use fossil fuels in a more efficient, and cleaner manner, then try and replace it altogether with something that just doesn't provide enough power. That said, the earths going to do, what the earths going to do. I don't think we caused global warming, or climate change, or whatever wordsmithing one wants to engage in_. We may have accelerated what was already going on, but I don't think we started it._ If you look at the earths entire geological record, humans are a MINOR footnote. We think the earth revolves around us, yet it was here before us, and it will be here after us.


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## DallanC

If I could get an electric truck that can tow a 10,000lb trailer 250 miles between charges, with a reasonable recharge time. I'm all for it. Until then... 

-DallanC


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## Critter

DallanC said:


> If I could get an electric truck that can tow a 10,000lb trailer 250 miles between charges, with a reasonable recharge time. I'm all for it. Until then...
> 
> -DallanC


My thing is that I need that truck to run 1000 miles between charges at a minimum with that 10,000lb load behind it. Back when I was working we would leave for a hunting trip right after work. Drive through the whole night and arrive at our destination around noon or a little later the next day and be hunting the next morning. There is no way that you would be able to do that with a electric vehicle, even with their quick charging which doesn't put a full charge back onto the battery. But then once you are at your hunting location you will need to be able to put that battery back to a full charge which means that you better be packing a generator to do so. Now that I am retired that trip is a lot easier since I can take more time but if you have limited time off you are screwed.

Now just the other night I was wondering if I would ever own a electric vehicle and I have actually figured that I will someday. But it will be one for running around town or taking short trips where I am not going to have to worry about where it is going to die on me.


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## backcountry

A car purchase is on the table for us, real soon. We are being encouraged by friends to by electric and I laugh. Our car has to multitask now that our truck has 230k + on it. It'll mostly be town at first but will need to work for us doing outdoor trips as well. There is just no way we can do what we want with an electric car with today's technology and infrastructure.

I did want a hybrid but it's looking pretty clear that's off the list unless my wife's boss gives her the raise she really deserves. I'll put my money on an ice hockey season broadcast from hell next year instead. Most used type aren't really appropriate for our lifestyle and the models that are remain out of reach with the crazy used car market right now.

But we have to get something pushing 30 mpg highway miles to prepare for our current situation and the future. Slim pickings.


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## Lone_Hunter

Interesting.


AAA Gas Prices


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## JerryH

I think I better go battery powered on the next two string trimmers


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## High Desert Elk

NIMBY is the popular acronym to describe the complete renewable crowd (Not In My BackYard). They're fine with the use of conventional energy, power, and fuel just so long as they don't have to see it or feel dirty for seeing it being used. There have been some that say renewables should be baseload, they couldn't be more wrong. For base load, you need reliability. We all know the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow, except for WY maybe.

The US has enough natural gas, most of which the emissions when burned is water (more so with methane), to last a few hundred years. The only time when you have a nuclear disaster is when Homer Simpson is in the control room. These two sources are enough to capture what renewables make sense and where to place it for that beneficial use. It's difficult to justify it though when it takes 10 acres to generate 1 MW of solar power. Footprint today with the advancement of horizontal lateral stimulation technology for hydrocarbon extraction, impact to the environment is minimal compared to tens of thousands of acres required for solar and wind.

Imagine where we'd be today if the *BILLIONS *wasted in trying to get the renewable market up and running were invested, instead, into emissions controls technology for fossil fuel generation...


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## wyogoob

JerryH said:


> I think I better go battery powered on the next two string trimmers


Finally, the voice of reason.


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## 3arabians

High Desert Elk said:


> NIMBY is the popular acronym to describe the complete renewable crowd (Not In My BackYard). They're fine with the use of conventional energy, power, and fuel just so long as they don't have to see it or feel dirty for seeing it being used. There have been some that say renewables should be baseload, they couldn't be more wrong. For base load, you need reliability. We all know the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow, except for WY maybe.
> 
> The US has enough natural gas, most of which the emissions when burned is water (more so with methane), to last a few hundred years. The only time when you have a nuclear disaster is when Homer Simpson is in the control room. These two sources are enough to capture what renewables make sense and where to place it for that beneficial use. It's difficult to justify it though when it takes 10 acres to generate 1 MW of solar power. Footprint today with the advancement of horizontal lateral stimulation technology for hydrocarbon extraction, impact to the environment is minimal compared to tens of thousands of acres required for solar and wind.
> 
> Imagine where we'd be today if the *BILLIONS *wasted in trying to get the renewable market up and running were invested, instead, into emissions controls technology for fossil fuel generation...


I don’t know. I think giving renewables the middle finger in favor of using mostly fossil fuels is short sighted and that’s coming from a guy that drives a coal rolling diesel. I’m with you on windmills. I agree those are much worse for the environment than the benefit they give. I won’t get into battery power cars, trucks etc because I don’t have time, but in short we are a LONG ways from those being practical for users like us. But,looking at hydrogen and biofuels makes much more sense to me and should be more of a focus in the renewables dept. 


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## Brookie

Not sure there is such a thing as renewable, energy, it can not be created or destroyed, it just changes forms. Even solar takes energy to make the panels and they don't last


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## paddler

JerryH said:


> I think I better go battery powered on the next two string trimmers


May be better than my old Honda. Gave me fits last year, it would start when you poured gas into it, then die. Cleaned the carb multiple times, then replaced it twice. No luck. Turned out to be a cracked intake manifold. My Honda mower surges, my Troy Bilt tiller won't start because of carb gunk. Electric line trimmer sounds good about now.


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## Ray

Nah, it will have zero impact me as the furthest I’ll drive this year is 2 hours from my house.


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## 3arabians

Ray said:


> Nah, it will have zero impact me as the furthest I’ll drive this year is 2 hours from my house.


I’m with ya, but a 2 hour drive might be 3 times more costly by the time hunting season rolls around. I will definitely be pinching pennies a lot harder than usual. But, plans won’t change. 


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## backcountry

Brookie said:


> Not sure there is such a thing as renewable, energy, it can not be created or destroyed, it just changes forms. Even solar takes energy to make the panels and they don't last


There are renewable sources of energy which is how the term has historically been used. The cradle to grave accounting is important AND having a readily available resource that can't be depleted below critical levels also matters. 

All that said, renewables can be over hyped and finding the right balance for now into the future isn't going to be easy. And I'm not remotely wise enough to know what the balancing act is. I just want my daughter's generation to be able to look back and know we tried our best with the information we had. And recognizing global climate change is real and definitely correlated with human behavior is the best available science. What we do after that is a coin toss.


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## middlefork

paddler said:


> May be better than my old Honda. Gave me fits last year, it would start when you poured gas into it, then die. Cleaned the carb multiple times, then replaced it twice. No luck. Turned out to be a cracked intake manifold. My Honda mower surges, my Troy Bilt tiller won't start because of carb gunk. Electric line trimmer sounds good about now.


Ethanol free, just saying. Any small 4 stroke engine running ethanol free will be a much happier engine.


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## wyogoob

taxidermist said:


> Goob....You do know I'm "messing" with you,,,,right??? I figured you lived close to Romantix or whatever it's called. You know, the store that stays open from the Utah dollars being spent there.
> 
> For what it's worth, there isn't a thing we can do about the price of fuel we have to pay at the pump. It's a necessary evil. Similar to a crack addict needing the fix for the moment. Talking with the Wife yesterday about the cost of gas and my voice volume rose and I began to get heated. She wrapped the BP band on me and my BP had rose. After 30 minutes talking about us and whatnot, she took it again and it was back to normal.
> 
> I'll pay more attention to the trips I make during the week and try to condense them to one or two for groceries, etc.
> 
> I just hope something gives and the high prices wont be for long. Positive thinking is easier to deal with than negative, and, its better for my health.


I live far enough away from Romantix that I just drive there. 

Gas is pricey here in Paradise, a lot higher in the southwest Wyoming part of Utah than what those fellas at AAA say. If you're coming here for fresh air, freedom and fun fuel up on the Wasatch Front first.

Another plus, for some, is the southwest Wyoming part of Utah is the most Conservative place in the USA. Most here are tied to oil n gas n coal so you can join in the incessant whining. It's a blast, for some, and has little, or nothing to do with Utah outdoors like this post.


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## DallanC

We went with a battery powered trimmer a few years back. Its nice... couldn't quite do the yard without a recharge though so I had to buy a 2nd battery. Bought a knock off brand but it works.

I dearly love my Dewalt 20v tools though... The drill kit was an initial gift, so I kept expanding on that line as I already had the batteries and charger. The rattle-gun has an unbelievable amount of torque for a 3/8 drive, I can zip off lugnuts with it. I'm looking at getting the Dewalt 20v chainsaw for "around the yard" needs. I have a Stihl gasser for the big stuff.

If I was buying my first tools, I'd go with the FUEL line. But, they are all good... and so handy.

-DallanC


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## Isuckathunting

Ray said:


> Nah, it will have zero impact me as the furthest I’ll drive this year is 2 hours from my house.


See, you're smart. I decided a few months ago this was my year to pick up an Idaho tag. That has turned out to be not smart.
Now I've got about 1000 mile round trip pulling a horse trailer with an old V8 gasser. Probably average right around 9 or 10 mpg.


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## 2full

I have a battery powered trimmer, and 2 battery blowers (one small and one large with turbo) that I use for everything. 
But, the one I have been the most surprised and amazed about is the battery hedge trimmer. It saves so much time around the yard over the hand trimmers. I use it around the cabin to keep trails trimmed as well. I can walk the trails without making as much noise or getting nearly as wet when it it's been stormy. 
I just bought myself a DeWalt battery driver drill a couple of weeks ago. That will come in handy around the house and cabin. 
My next battery operated toy will be a lawn mower. They have come a long way with them the last 5 years.


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## johnnycake

2full said:


> My next battery operated toy will be a lawn mower. They have come a long way with them the last 5 years.


Go one step further and get a robot mower. It's phenomenal. My lawn looked perfect all summer and I didn't have to do a single thing


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## 3arabians

middlefork said:


> Ethanol free, just saying. Any small 4 stroke engine running ethanol free will be a much happier engine.


Fact! Probably true for a jetliner also. But ethanol is better for Mother Earth. Getting back to that balance backcountry referred to earlier. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3arabians

2full said:


> I have a battery powered trimmer, and 2 battery blowers (one small and one large with turbo) that I use for everything.
> But, the one I have been the most surprised and amazed about is the battery hedge trimmer. It saves so much time around the yard over the hand trimmers. I use it around the cabin to keep trails trimmed as well. I can walk the trails without making as much noise or getting nearly as wet when it it's been stormy.
> I just bought myself a DeWalt battery driver drill a couple of weeks ago. That will come in handy around the house and cabin.
> My next battery operated toy will be a lawn mower. They have come a long way with them the last 5 years.


My FIL bought one of those husqvarna battery powered chainsaws last year. I was impressed with the cutting ability. Not much use if you’re a logger but if you’re car camping or using a trailer camper with a generator it’s a much better option for the firewood stash than a gas chainsaw. Minimal maintenance and no sore shoulders from yanking on the pull start when it’s flooded. 


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## DallanC

3arabians said:


> But ethanol is better for Mother Earth


Not true. Lots of articles came out on this over the past couple weeks debunking this after a detailed study:









U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds


Corn-based ethanol, which for years has been mixed in huge quantities into gasoline sold at U.S. pumps, is likely a much bigger contributor to global warming than straight gasoline, according to a study published Monday.




www.reuters.com





-DallanC


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## 3arabians

Isuckathunting said:


> Now I've got about 1000 mile round trip pulling a horse trailer with an old V8 gasser. Probably average right around 9 or 10 mpg.


That’s actually really good mileage for a V8 gas engine pulling a horse trailer (assuming you’ll have horses in it). 

On Monday I fought a headwind in my F350 6.0 diesel pulling a 5th wheel keystone cougar xlite from vegas to cedar city which weighed about 7000 lbs and I was getting 8.5 mpg. Kicked up to 11 mpg around beaver after the wind mellowed and averaged 10 mpg overall. 


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## 3arabians

DallanC said:


> Not true. Lots of articles came out on this over the past couple weeks debunking this after a detailed study:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds
> 
> 
> Corn-based ethanol, which for years has been mixed in huge quantities into gasoline sold at U.S. pumps, is likely a much bigger contributor to global warming than straight gasoline, according to a study published Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -DallanC


Well, I mean…..”a new study finds” ??? 

Not the first time I’ve heard that! 

What are the motivations behinds these new scientific studies? I’m not so sure I would just say “not true” but maybe. 


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## DallanC

3arabians said:


> Well, I mean…..”a new study finds” ???


New = recent.



> Not the first time I’ve heard that!


/shrug



> What are the motivations behinds these new scientific studies? I’m not so sure I would just say “not true” but maybe.


Stop using methods that actually hurt the environment rather than help it?

Here's the complete explanation the study. Its well done.






So, you tell me, where is this study / explaination going wrong?

-DallanC


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## 3arabians

All I’m saying is it’s more complicated than just “a detailed recent study shows” so it’s debunked. 

Here: 









Is ethanol really worse than gasoline? The debate, revisited.







www.vox.com






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## 3arabians

Delete - repeating myself.


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## High Desert Elk

Regardless of what energy/fuel source is used, a simple (and summarized) principle of economics is king: There is always a tradeoff to everything, aka, "there is no free lunch".

Fossil: better mechanical efficiency but finite with more emissions
Hydro: "cleaner" but altering watersheds and perhaps fisheries
Renewable: "cleaner" but finite and carries a large footprint
Nuclear: "cleaner" but disposal of spent rods can be an issue


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## Daisy

2full said:


> My next battery operated toy will be a lawn mower. They have come a long way with them the last 5 years.


These two sentences likely foreshadow the reality when it comes to battery powered vehicles/equipment. Technology will find a way to give you that 1000 mile range and towing capacity. Hopefully someone five years from now digs this thread up and we say....duh!


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## High Desert Elk

Daisy said:


> These two sentences likely foreshadow the reality when it comes to battery powered vehicles/equipment. Technology will find a way to give you that 1000 mile range and towing capacity. Hopefully someone five years from now digs this thread up and we say....duh!


But, will it be marketable?


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## colorcountrygunner

High Desert Elk said:


> But, will it be marketable?


And will it be affordable? Won't do the general population much good if it costs 6 figures or thereabouts.


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## ridgetop

Funny how so many threads get derailed or side tracked.lol BTW, I'm sure I may cut my scouting and fishing trips down this summer. As for the hunts, no plans on changing a thing. On a good note, gas prices dropped 10 cents yesterday to $4.19.


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## wyogoob

A large footprint where mule deer use to winter in Pinedale WY. Drill baby drill.


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## wyogoob

South of Vernal Utah, drill baby drill.


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## wyogoob

ridgetop said:


> Funny how so many threads get derailed or side tracked.lol BTW, I'm sure I may cut my scouting and fishing trips down this summer. As for the hunts, no plans on changing a thing. On a good note, gas prices dropped 10 cents yesterday to $4.19.


Well yeah....I just put up 2 pictures of places the members here won't have to waste money on fuel scouting or hunting this year. Kind of a public service announcement....yer welcome.

Geeze, stay on track everyone.


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## CPAjeff

No, gas prices won’t impact my hunting plans this year!


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## colorcountrygunner

wyogoob said:


> View attachment 151411
> 
> 
> South of Vernal Utah, drill baby drill.


We have a similar thing going on along the Wasatch Front, but the landscape is filled with cookie cutter subdivisions and the slogan is "build baby build."

Edit: TOTP


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## Critter

Since we are veering off of the subject a ways and talking some about winter range for deer, how about the areas off of the Wasatch Front down around Huntington, Feron, Loa, Bicknell, Richfield, Salina, and a lot more? Not much drilling going on down there but where are the deer herds that used to be there?

I don't think that we need to worry too much about someone driving out to the area south of Vernal to scout for deer since that is a LE unit and very few deer winter in that area from what I remember when I was working out there in the early 70's.


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## backcountry

Those 2 photos are emblematic of a field territory I worked. When I first started my job there were a few horse heads doing their steady work. Then we started seeing and feeling the thumpers. 

After I quit I still drove through the dirt roads for over a decade and watched it slowly transform into that satellite photo.

Like HDE said, every benefit comes with a cost. Most will never know being able to walk those plateaus, seeing mule deer in the distance, picking up manos and pottery, and seeing waist high sage. AND, we need the fuel and the county has a lot more wealth. 

Times and places change. Grateful for the ephemeral experience that time was BUT I don't miss sleeping outside in -20F.


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## backcountry

Deleted, forgot to change metric


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## CPAjeff

Holy balls! We’re about $0.80 cheaper per gallon here in the Basin.


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## wyogoob

colorcountrygunner said:


> We have a similar thing going on along the Wasatch Front, but the landscape is filled with cookie cutter subdivisions and the slogan is "build baby build."
> 
> Edit: TOTP


Are you just saying that to get to the top of the page?


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## backcountry

CPAjeff said:


> Holy balls! We’re about $0.80 cheaper per gallon here in the Basin.


I'd forgotten to change back from diesel that I was doing comparisons on yesterday. Sorry for the mistake. Luckily we didn't jump that fast.


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## wyogoob

Critter said:


> Since we are veering off of the subject a ways and talking some about winter range for deer, how about the areas off of the Wasatch Front down around Huntington, Feron, Loa, Bicknell, Richfield, Salina, and a lot more? Not much drilling going on down there but where are the deer herds that used to be there?
> 
> I don't think that we need to worry too much about someone driving out to the area south of Vernal to scout for deer since that is a LE unit and very few deer winter in that area from what I remember when I was working out there in the early 70's.


If they would open a deer hunt in the city of Evingston I'd save a lot of money on fuel. I could hunt in my yard.


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## colorcountrygunner

wyogoob said:


> Are you just saying that to get to the top of the page?


No, it's true! Come down to the southwestern Utah part of Utah sometime and see for yourself!


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## Critter

wyogoob said:


> If they would open a deer hunt in the city of Evingston I'd save a lot of money on fuel. I could hunt in my yard.


What I was getting at is that there are a lot more factors on the winter range for deer than drilling and homes. I have a area right above my home that back in the 80's and early 90 would hold over 500 deer during the winter. We would rabbit hunt the area and run into small herds all over the place. Today if you took a drive up there and hiked around you would be lucky to see 50 head, and nothing has changed except that they now no longer plow the road up to a FAA site. In another area there used to be a couple hundred elk wintering in fields that you would see as you drive down the road, now there are 20 or so if even that many. I took a drive up there 2 weeks ago and saw perhaps 10, what has changed.....nothing except fewer animals..


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## taxidermist

Stopped at Sam Club to fill up yesterday, ($4.66gal) and to my surprise there wasn't six diesel pickups in line. Ha, Ha,....My lucky day I was thinking. YUP!!! My lucky day alright, there was a sign that read, "OUT OF DIESEL". I drove to another location and paid $4.88 a gallon. Just topped it off and it was $57 for 11.659 gallons. I'll be filling it up when when the gage is at 3/4 full.


----------



## Critter

When I headed down to Arizona last month I ran a little over 400 miles before I fueled up my diesel. The pump clicked off at $100 and I figured that was good enough to get me to where I was going. The next fuel stop it clicked off at $75 and I ran my card again, yep you guessed it just a few dollars before it was full.


----------



## backcountry

My most progressive friends are still pushing a "Green New Deal" agenda first over production 3 weeks into this. I've been wrong before and it will happen plenty through my life but I don't see how its going to be a sustainable approach for quite a while with an invasion/war, threats of nuclear intervention and all the worldwide implications.

I'm still trying to explain how it could work out better in the medium to long run if the plan's architects acquiesced and advocated a war footing on fossil fuel production increases but its falling on deaf ears. They just don't seem to realize their views represent like 10% of the electorate when its applied so rigidly. And I say that has someone who has advocated what can be called an environmental approach my entire adult life. 

I say that as they've directly implied my concerns about gas costs and having to reduce travel are simply selfish. I don't think they understand what happens when you just dismiss people that way. And I know some of them want high gas prices to reduce consumption. Not to mention our household is a single car one with two adults who drives and flies significantly less than most of them. 🤷‍♂️

Who knows what gas prices will do but we'll find out in the next 10 weeks as vacation season starts ramping up and attention becomes even more laser focused on fuel costs and budgets. 

*My wife is as progressive as they come and I'm betting our gas budget on our CA trip is going to have a massive impact on her fossil fuel politics. We both know our quality of life is changing but to see how big it might need to be will be shocking; the gas costs are likely to be above an entire trip budget from just 2.5 years ago.


----------



## High Desert Elk

wyogoob said:


> View attachment 151410
> 
> 
> A large footprint where mule deer use to winter in Pinedale WY. Drill baby drill.





wyogoob said:


> View attachment 151411
> 
> 
> South of Vernal Utah, drill baby drill.


Good thing technology has advanced to give the ability to drill long [horizontal] laterals instead of multiple "post holes".


----------



## wyogoob

High Desert Elk said:


> Good thing technology has advanced to give the ability to drill long [horizontal] laterals instead of multiple "post holes".


That technology has been around for years, sans the computer chips. I worked the Gulf 79 thru 89, there was directional drilling. I worked the gas fields in Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and North Dakota 79 thru 2009, no directional drilling on land.


----------



## DallanC

2003'ish they did exploration in central utah... the drilled all kinds of directions looking for oil, under various landowner properties. They thumped the heck out of the valley, said oil was at 16k ft dept... they drilled 16.8k in several directions, no joy. They then rethumped a few spots and came back and said oil was at 20k ft. The drill rig wasnt setup to go that deep so they pulled all the pipe, dismantled and moved on.

-DallanC


----------



## 7mm Reloaded

The Keystone pipeline was only 20 percent completed and would take a decade to finish so that wouldn’t have helped now .There are thousands of untapped paid leases ready to drill but the companies won’t because they are making fortunes without having to spend money. IMO in be4 the lock


----------



## High Desert Elk

wyogoob said:


> I worked the gas fields in Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and North Dakota 79 thru 2009, no directional drilling on land.


My comment is in reference for today's environment, not 30 and 40 years ago.

I don't want to argue, but there was because I drilled some in CO as the lead drilling engineer. Several directional wells were being done in the Piceance Basin with as many as 20 wellheads on one pad. A group of us went up there to look at the top drives before we kicked off a program that required wellbore profiles with a 2:1 step-out ratio.

Depends on the formation and how easy it would be to get the frac off. The shale boom made people figure out what was already there, $100 oil will do that when inflation is normal.

I know there was horizontal drilling in WY in the early 2000's because I was a field engineer with the dreaded HOWCO that cemented them, granted, they were oil wells...


----------



## paddler

7mm Reloaded said:


> The Keystone pipeline was only 20 percent completed and would take a decade to finish so that wouldn’t have helped now .There are thousands of untapped paid leases ready to drill but the companies won’t because they are making fortunes without having to spend money. IMO in be4 the lock


Yep. Phases 1, 2 and 3 of Keystone have been operating for years. The proposed XL phase was just a pipeline, not an oil field. I think the number of undeveloped leases is currently about 9000. In any case, just attracting capital to develop new fields will take some time. No quick fix.


----------



## High Desert Elk

DallanC said:


> 2003'ish they did exploration in central utah... the drilled all kinds of directions looking for oil, under various landowner properties. They thumped the heck out of the valley, said oil was at 16k ft dept... they drilled 16.8k in several directions, no joy. They then rethumped a few spots and came back and said oil was at 20k ft. The drill rig wasnt setup to go that deep so they pulled all the pipe, dismantled and moved on.
> 
> -DallanC


I remember when that was going on. Same reason why there's really not much to worry about with the Bears Ears being drilled up, the monument isn't protecting it from that. There is development to the south of Blanding and then again in Montezuma Creek and Aneth. Also some north of Monticello closer to CO. The Abajo's are a "young" mountain range with a lot of canyon country - real tough stuff to drill in...


----------



## High Desert Elk

7mm Reloaded said:


> The Keystone pipeline was only 20 percent completed and would take a decade to finish so that wouldn’t have helped now .There are thousands of untapped paid leases ready to drill but the companies won’t because they are making fortunes without having to spend money. IMO in be4 the lock


The remainder of the Keystone was to connect to the Gulf to lower the price of transportation. Those "paid up" leases will expire if the E&P's don't top-set some casing to hold the lease, but there is no payout. E&P's are also holding their breath because of the green new deal narrative. They need to make sure the supply will meet the demand first. Keystone would help in being a net exporter. The largest E&P in NM made the statement they aren't drilling because they can't get APD's. That process changed during obama's last term in office. What was once a 30 page APD packet in 2008 turned into a ream of paper by 2015...


----------



## backcountry

The majority of the narrative around Keystone seems problematic unless you drill down into the details. It most definitely could help us in regard to world consumption of oil from either cartels or authoritarians like Putin. That's not a small benefit.

But wasn't the pipeline also largely to transport Canada fossil fuels to refineries in our nation? Meaning it wasn't fully "our" oil to add to our balance sheet. And it would help our import v export ratio, ie the "energy independence" narrative, but ultimately the vast majority of the oil would definitely be exported if historic trends kept up.

I definitely see HDE's point. I just wish the pundits would shut up and allow the nation to talk about the details and be more clear sighted about our energy sector. There isn't a black and white answer on what's best but it would be healthy if we made some decisions that fostered a better long term plans a nation. And that is going to require both fossil fuels and renewables. 

*I've recently learned how toxic FB has truly become. I don't know why that site is a dumpster fire of negative partisanship memes but it's so much worse than most places, even contentious social media like Twitter. The "conversation" there around this subject does not give me hope since 7 of 10 Americans use it 😬


----------



## paddler

I didn't join FB until recently, and then only to be able to participate in the Howatt Owners Group. Not at all active, haven't been on it in a few months.

Keystone XL was going to go through the Sand Hills in Nebraska, a short cut. No thanks. The history is quite complex, to use the war in Ukraine as justification to build it is illogical.


----------



## bowgy

Hasn't changed my hunting plans yet but it is officially now cheaper to buy fast food than it is for me to go home for lunch.


----------



## johnnycake

I refuse to do the math on how many $/lbs of ptarmigan livers this weekend's slaughter worked out to be


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Today I realized it costs me **** near $10 just to drive my truck to Orem and back just to check lowes to see if they had certain shelving in stock. I didn't go to Orem.


----------



## wyogoob

paddler said:


> Yep. Phases 1, 2 and 3 of Keystone have been operating for years. The proposed XL phase was just a pipeline, not an oil field. I think the number of undeveloped leases is currently about 9000. In any case, just attracting capital to develop new fields will take some time. No quick fix.


Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Most people think the Keystone thing is new.

The present Keystone Pipeline system goes from Canada to Illinois and Texas. There's been 21 leaks on the pipeline since Phase 1 was commissioned in 2010. Keystone Pipeline Spill History | Bold Nebraska


----------



## wyogoob

johnnycake said:


> I refuse to do the math on how many $/lbs of ptarmigan livers this weekend's slaughter worked out to be


Yer killin me


----------



## Critter

wyogoob said:


> paddler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't join FB until recently, and then only to be able to participate in the Howatt Owners Group. Not at all active, haven't been on it in a few months.
> 
> Keystone XL was going to go through the Sand Hills in Nebraska, a short cut. No thanks. The history is quite complex, to use the war in Ukraine as justification to build it is illogical.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Most people think the Keystone thing is new.
> 
> The present Keystone Pipeline system goes from Canada to Illinois and Texas. There's been 21 leaks on the pipeline since Phase 1 was commissioned in 2010. Keystone Pipeline Spill History | Bold Nebraska
Click to expand...

The thing that I very seldom see discussed when people are talking about stopping pipelines is that most of that oil will still flow through the states either by truck or train. The pipeline is just the most economical way for it to go. 

Right now here in Colorado there is a big discussion going on about a supposed railway going from Utah's Uinta Basin and tying into the mainline that runs parallel to the Colorado river then up and over the Continental Divide towards Leadville and then east. They are all worried about a derailment and what it would do to the environment.


----------



## Critter

Speaking of pipelines, does anyone here remember all the tanker rollovers in Provo Canyon back in the 70's around the old state road shed? The tankers would make one turn which would move the oil one way then hit another turn that moved it the other and over the truck would go. 

People would yelling all about the truck traffic hauling that crude oil through Provo Canyon and wanted a pipeline built from the Basin over to Woods Cross and the refinery.


----------



## taxidermist

*They are all worried about a derailment and what it would do to the environment. *

You saw what the mudslides did to the river and I-70 last year. If a tanker car did happen to derail and spill into the river, at least the oils would float and booms could be placed to capture most of it. Mud flows degrade the water worse than oil. The silts reduce the oxygen in the water and kill the aquatic wildlife and fish. I hope if it did happen, they could gather it prior to the powerhouse near Glenwood Springs.


----------



## DallanC

Critter said:


> Speaking of pipelines, does anyone here remember all the tanker rollovers in Provo Canyon back in the 70's around the old state road shed? The tankers would make one turn which would move the oil one way then hit another turn that moved it the other and over the truck would go.


Yup. My barber has a neat old 1970s picture that's probably where the tunnels are now, herding a ton of sheep along that narrow rode. Its a cool picture, I need to take a picture of it. Now we have a big fast road through there... and it seems alot more fatal accidents, especially around the sundance and vivian park areas.

-DallanC


----------



## JerryH

With these gas prices. I'm beginning to think I just better stay with one string trimmer?


----------



## paddler

I checked my CC account. Filled up my Expedition Feb 14, have driven 111 miles since. Most of that was to Layton and back to jump my daughter's battery. She grained it while waiting in her car at the vet's office. I don't need to drive much till the Kokanee come on.


----------



## 2full

We spent the money on gas and took the snow machines to the cabin on Saturday and spent the night. Saturday was a perfect day. Enough snow to go wherever you want, but not enough to get stuck. 
Came back to the real world Sunday afternoon. 
Wish there was more snow. Already getting to be bare spots. Esp on the South faces. Was a great trip. Last trip for the year. 
Then we played golf in town today.


----------



## DallanC

Oh... I love Phazers. I've owned 6 over the years. They were pretty crazy when introduced in 1984. I've had normal ones and the II's. Steering gets so loose bad on them over the years... their biggest downfall. I was buying them off of KSL, fixing and flipping them. Made some good money.

I have a video of my 7 year old bombing around on a Phazer II years ago, he was so light he could go anywhere on that thing. Hilarious.

-DallanC


----------



## 7mm Reloaded

Since October I’ve only put 2000 miles on my old truck. Retirement is saving me money. I was driving 25 miles a day at least so gas prices are not hurting us yet


----------



## Vanilla

wyogoob said:


> Yer killin me


At least he’s killing something, cause he ain’t ptarmigan!


----------



## 2full

DallanC said:


> Oh... I love Phazers. I've owned 6 over the years. They were pretty crazy when introduced in 1984. I've had normal ones and the II's. Steering gets so loose bad on them over the years... their biggest downfall. I was buying them off of KSL, fixing and flipping them. Made some good money.
> 
> I have a video of my 7 year old bombing around on a Phazer II years ago, he was so
> light he could go anywhere on that thing. Hilarious.
> 
> -DallanC


Mine is a 95 that I bought for $1K in 97. 
I'm pretty sure I got my money back from it. 
I have had 3 or 4 guys want to buy it in the last year or two.


----------



## johnnycake

Vanilla said:


> At least he’s killing something, cause he ain’t ptarmigan!


Fewer than I'd like, but still managing to draw blood every outing


----------



## High Desert Elk

Some food for thought while on the discussion of fuel prices and its usage (copied from elsewhere and pasted here):

_*"This is an excellent breakdown.*_
*
Batteries, they do not make electricity – they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.

Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?"

But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels.

A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.

To manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for one battery."


The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.

Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades.

There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions.

"Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure.
*
_*I'm not opposed to mining ,electric vehicles, wind or solar. But showing the reality of the situation."*_


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Heard yesterday that Saudi is thinking about/considering selling oil in Yuan. How's that to bright your day, the possible rise of the "petro-yuan". If that happens, its a safe bet the petro-dollar goes buh bye, and ALL that goes with it.
( Insert political rant here)


----------



## bowgy

High Desert Elk said:


> Some food for thought while on the discussion of fuel prices and its usage (copied from elsewhere and pasted here):


Yep, the fossil fuel costs to produce a solar panel or windmill is so high that the power either one of them will produce will never recover those costs in their life time of use.

Also wind and solar power can not produce the materials needed to make them. 

But they are great to make power where there is no grid power.


----------



## wyogoob

High Desert Elk said:


> Some food for thought while on the discussion of fuel prices and its usage (copied from elsewhere and pasted here):
> 
> ..........................................................................................................
> 
> *Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades.*
> .................................................................................................................


I think I use praseodymium and dysprosium in my braunschweiger sausage.


----------



## bowgy

Spent yesterday afternoon working in St George, thought I would fuel up before I left and when I got back to test the cost.
I used to be able to go for $10 to $15, yesterday it cost me $40.


----------



## bowgy




----------



## wyogoob

bowgy said:


> View attachment 151497


That's funny. When I bought my place the piping for the gas meter n regulator, as in your diagram, leaked in a couple places kinda just like the gas company's pipelines.

Uh...we had to shut it off to fix it.

FWI: I worked for a gas pipeline company for 30 years, then as an inspector for another 20 years. They can do better.


----------



## High Desert Elk

Lone_Hunter said:


> Heard yesterday that Saudi is thinking about/considering selling oil in Yuan. How's that to bright your day, the possible rise of the "petro-yuan". If that happens, its a safe bet the petro-dollar goes buh bye, and ALL that goes with it.
> ( Insert political rant here)


They can do what they want, but it won't get them very far. They're thinking about it in response to what the US's stance is on Russian oil, if it even means anything.

It's no secret the UAE really doesn't want the USA to be the superpower that holds up the global economic ceiling anymore...


----------



## colorcountrygunner

wyogoob said:


> I think I use praseodymium and dysprosium in my braunschweiger sausage.


This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate when I posted this thread. Somehow it got all political. I could have never foreseen that.


----------



## wyogoob

colorcountrygunner said:


> This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate when I posted this thread. Somehow it got all political. I could have never foreseen that.


Yeah, I spend a good part of my day working on world peace, so I was hoping the UWN Forum would be a diversion from that.


----------



## Critter

I had a boiled egg sandwich with pork & beans for lunch if that will help any. It didn't cost very much at all.

I can feel the gas warming up in the bullpen.....


----------



## DallanC

Last time the gas company worked on my meter, the guy ran a hose from his CNG fueled pickup truck and hooked it into the gas line so the home appliances stayed lit while the gas was shut off. He R&R'd the meter, did whatever else he needed to do, then turned the gas back on, unhooked the truck line and called it a day. Pretty slick.

-DallanC


----------



## High Desert Elk

colorcountrygunner said:


> This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate when I posted this thread. Somehow it got all political. I could have never foreseen that.





wyogoob said:


> Yeah, I spend a good part of my day working on world peace, so I was hoping the UWN Forum would be a diversion from that.


Wherever could it have gotten derailed...


----------



## Catherder

wyogoob said:


> I think I use praseodymium and dysprosium in my braunschweiger sausage.



I don't care for dysprosium in my braunschweiger. It give me a different kind of gas, along with cramps and diarrhea. 🤮

Praseodymium adds a nice zest though.


----------



## wyogoob

High Desert Elk said:


> ................................................................................
> ...................................*It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
> 
> To manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for one megawatt of electricity generated by coal."
> 
> 
> The main problem with ....................... is the chemicals needed .........................requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard.................................*
> 
> ...................................*imbedded costs and environmental destruction.....................................and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced..................................*
> ...........................................................
> ..............................................................


I pretty sure you can get all these chemicals out in the fly ash ponds at any coal-fired power plant....which, has a little to do with the Utah outdoors, but nothing to do with the original post.


----------



## DallanC

I'd be disappointed if any UWN thread didnt go off the rails by page 5.

-DallanC


----------



## 7mm Reloaded

On MM only takes one page😳. In before the lock


----------



## bowgy

The first time gas prices jumped years ago I was complaining to a friend and he had a good comment, yeah, prices are high but I can buy all I want. 

This reminded me of that. I have to be thankful for what I got.


----------



## DIRTYS6X6

Only change for us is new trailer. All i can say is look out savings account here i come.


----------



## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> Last time the gas company worked on my meter, the guy ran a hose from his CNG fueled pickup truck and hooked it into the gas line so the home appliances stayed lit while the gas was shut off. He R&R'd the meter, did whatever else he needed to do, then turned the gas back on, unhooked the truck line and called it a day. Pretty slick.
> 
> -DallanC


Great post. "...did whatever else he needed to do.........and called it a day" - 30 yrs with the gas company and those were my specialties.

Uh....what's "R&R'd"?


----------



## DallanC

Remove and Replace.

-DallanC


----------



## High Desert Elk

wyogoob said:


> I pretty sure you can get all these chemicals out in the fly ash ponds at any coal-fired power plant....which, has a little to do with the Utah outdoors, but nothing to do with the original post.


Or, maybe earlier on towards the beginning in the single digit number of posts. That had zero to do with UT outdoors. I can tell you where, but will only do it through private message.

Whether or not those "chemicals" come from a coal fired power plant is completely irrelevant to anything, so please stop the personal attacks on me just because I disagreed with you.

Keep it honest goob. 

There, you finally got your argument. Good job...


----------



## wyogoob

High Desert Elk said:


> Or, maybe earlier on towards the beginning in the single digit number of posts. That had zero to do with UT outdoors. I can tell you where, but will only do it through private message.
> 
> Whether or not those "chemicals" come from a coal fired power plant is completely irrelevant to anything, so please stop the personal attacks on me just because I disagreed with you.
> 
> Keep it honest goob.
> 
> There, you finally got your argument. Good job...


What? You're not a coal-fired power plant.


----------



## Hunter-wildbill

colorcountrygunner said:


> Man, this is gonna hurt this year. I have been crunching numbers and estimating miles from my house to southern Idaho, southern Utah and wherever else I might hunt, dividing the miles by the pitiful mpg I get out of my pickup, then multiplying that figure by the current $4.19 a gallon and the potential (almost certain) 5+....Fuuuuuuudge. This is not looking good.


Just drive your Tesla.I heard it on Al Gores internet # !


----------



## Hunter-wildbill

PBH said:


> fuel economy? Meh.
> 
> 
> Try heating your house on propane!!
> 
> 
> I'm currently looking for a handyman that can do a remodel job on my [new] house. I need someone that can rip out our gas fireplace and put in a free-standing wood burning stove. We may need to pull down a wall and do some re-framing, then rock work. If anyone is interested, let me know. (I'm serious)


 You should consider pellet stove? Much simpler to install than a wood stove. You can cut vent hole directly out wall at same elevation similar to a clothes dryer and pellets are cost efficient by buying a ton at a time. Just my 2 cents. I had a wood stove for years and had several ranches to cut firewood. (chainsaw, fuel,oil,spark plugs,chains) then you need to take truck to cut wood then store wood . You can stack the pellet bags inside and or corner of garage/pantry,etc.


----------



## paddler

Oil has dropped again, ~27% last I heard. Now we just have to watch out for the opportunists.


----------



## Hunter-wildbill

Vanilla said:


> My comment before about how these price increases were set in motion in April of 2020 should not be viewed as a defense of President Biden or any of his misguided policies. It should only be viewed as what it is: a factual statement. These planned reductions over the last couple years are still impacting what we are seeing today. So again, if we are going to blame people, let's blame EVERYONE that has had a part, and not just those we view as political enemies. If we care about being honest and factual. I realize I may be naïve thinking anyone does anymore.
> 
> Just so we don't have revisionist history, here are a few articles to remind us what happened:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump plays key role in brokering historic oil deal
> 
> 
> The world's largest oil producers agreed to a historic production cut of almost 10 million barrels per day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxbusiness.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oil Nations, Prodded by Trump, Reach Deal to Slash Production (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> The deal will reduce output by 9.7 million barrels a day. While significant, the cut falls far short of what is needed to bring oil production in line with demand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources
> 
> 
> By Timothy Gardner, Steve Holland, Dmitry Zhdannikov and Rania El Gamal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


The media put a nice twist on the attempted outcome of "The deal". Trump pushing for cuts was to save American jobs and stabilize world supplies that were flooding the market. oil went negative during CV-19 . Opec and Russia were in a price war killing off U.S. jobs and we now know Russia was planning to fund this invasion of Ukraine. Eventually with the "Green New Deal" under Biden was a second slap to the Saudis-2 million BPOD down to 500,000 BPOD. American workers got there slap day 1 of his "Leadership". If the new attempt by the Biden administration to buy from Iran and Venezuela doesn't make you question the function of sanity in our government i guess some of us wear rose colored glasses?


----------



## runallday

$4.50 gasoline and other minor short term inflationary changes are not enough to be prohibitive to recreation.


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Hunter-wildbill said:


> Just drive your Tesla.I heard it on Al Gores internet # !


----------



## Vanilla

Hunter-wildbill said:


> If the new attempt by the Biden administration to buy from Iran and Venezuela doesn't make you question the function of sanity in our government i guess some of us wear rose colored glasses?


But this thread isn’t about the quality (or lack thereof) of the current president, it’s about gas prices. And regardless of the reasons for doing it and whether they were right or wrong, if you can’t acknowledge that Trump’s (and others) actions dating back to 2020 have contributed to this problem today then you’ve got bigger problems than just rose colored glasses.

The only thing you do is kill your own credibility. We need some folks to balance out paddler anyway. No biggie.


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## DallanC

Ah another fan of Matts Off Road. I imagine you also follow "Layton Nation" and Fab Rats?

-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter

DallanC said:


> Ah another fan of Matts Off Road. I imagine you also follow "Layton Nation" and Fab Rats?
> 
> -DallanC


Nah. I only subbed to his channel about a month or two ago. Did watch a Fab Rats video series though on that jeep they pulled out of the seirras. I'd probably have subbed but my youtube feed is getting out of hand. My wife can binge watch Matts offroaad though. I enjoy watching her reactions more then the video's themselves. Didn't know the channel existed until my own mother texted me a video of his in Spanish Fork.


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## paddler

Vanilla said:


> But this thread isn’t about the quality (or lack thereof) of the current president, it’s about gas prices. And regardless of the reasons for doing it and whether they were right or wrong, if you can’t acknowledge that Trump’s (and others) actions dating back to 2020 have contributed to this problem today then you’ve got bigger problems than just rose colored glasses.
> 
> The only thing you do is kill your own credibility. We need some folks to balance out paddler anyway. No biggie.


You guys just can't handle the truth.


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## DallanC

Lone_Hunter said:


> Nah. I only subbed to his channel about a month or two ago. Did watch a Fab Rats video series though on that jeep they pulled out of the seirras. I'd probably have subbed but my youtube feed is getting out of hand. My wife can binge watch Matts offroaad though. I enjoy watching her reactions more then the video's themselves. Didn't know the channel existed until my own mother texted me a video of his in Spanish Fork.


Was there a jeep in the sierra's or are you talking about Ed's Suzuki? Thats why I mentioned FabRats and Robby Layton's channel. They are restoring it for ed, FabRats did a body and engine swap on it, now its at Layton Autobody getting body and paint done. Their last video showed all the frame, axles springs etc all sand blasted and powder coated. Now they are back to finishing up the body work.

Really impressed with the quality of work Layton does, and they video most everything. Super attention to detail. Sad though... they are so good at what they do, they are 2 years out now for a normal paint job.

-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter

DallanC said:


> Was there a jeep in the sierra's or are you talking about Ed's Suzuki? Thats why I mentioned FabRats and Robby Layton's channel. They are restoring it for ed, FabRats did a body and engine swap on it, now its at Layton Autobody getting body and paint done. Their last video showed all the frame, axles springs etc all sand blasted and powder coated. Now they are back to finishing up the body work.
> 
> Really impressed with the quality of work Layton does, and they video most everything. Super attention to detail. Sad though... they are so good at what they do, they are 2 years out now for a normal paint job.
> 
> -DallanC


My bad, it was Eds Suzuki. I forgot the exact name, manufacture, but hearing it, yeah it was a suzuki. More like a suzuki imitation of a jeep. On the video where they went to pull it out, i was wondering how the heck he got that vehicle in there, until they showed it. Thing is SMALL. Like a glorified golf cart. Yeah, we watched the restoration on Fab Rats. They ended up doing a body swap, etc etc. Has a heck of an engine in it now compared to the 2 stroke it originally had.


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