# Question about native fish.



## Avram (Jun 25, 2011)

So I've been searching the internet for information on native fish in Utah. I am VERY curious to know what fish resided in the Uinta, Wasatch, La Sal, and Boulder Mountain lakes before humans brought different species of fish into the state.

Thank you!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Before humans? Or before white man?

Boulder Mountain is in the Colorado River drainage. Remnant populations of pure native Colorado River cutthroat were found in the headwaters of Boulder Creek (Escalante tributary). These fish were there prior to white man's arrival. It wouldn't be a far stretch to assume that these fish were there without any help from humans at all. 

There are historical records that show Native American's at Fish Lake utilizing the native trout in that lake / system. These most likely would have been CR cutts (Fremont / Dirty Devil).

It would also be safe to assume that the same cutthroat would have been in other tributary systems of the Colorado River (Escalante, Dirty Devil/Fremont).

The La Sal mountains are also in the Colorado River drainage, and thus most likely would have had CR cutts.

As for the Wasatch, and parts of the Uintas, you could most likely assume that Bonneville cutthroat trout would have been in many of those drainages. Some drainages on the Uintas are part of the Colorado drainage, and would have contained CR cutts as well.



unfortantely, there just aren't many records of what the Native American's did as far as fish moving.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Interesting...Natives moving fish? I have never heard of or thought of such a thing. What are the possibilities of this? PBH, do you know of ANY stories/records of this happening?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Of course there were also some game fish besides the cutthroats and some that aren't now considered game fish, but that the Native Americans undoubtedly utilized. The fishing proclamation lists 3 species of whitefish (Bonneville, Bear Lake, and Mountain) and the Bonneville cisco as native game fish and the Utah sucker and the Utah chub as native non-game fish. And there were also native fish that are now endangered, June sucker, Bonytail, Colorado pikeminnow (Squawfish), Humpback chub, Razorback sucker, plus some shiners and probably cave fish or other small fish that may have been used for bait or meal or fertilizer. I don't know any particulars, but I do know that early Native Americans were quite inventive when it came to gathering and/or securing food and they made the most of what they found and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out they moved fish via fertilized eggs or fry.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Interesting...Natives moving fish? I have never heard of or thought of such a thing. What are the possibilities of this? PBH, do you know of ANY stories/records of this happening?


while I have no records, or stories, I don't see why our native americans would not have moved fish if they thought it would benefit them. Taking a trout caught in a small creek and walking half a mile to the next creek that was void of fish shouldn't sound too extreme -- most of us have had those thoughts, and I'm sure that the indigenous people of this land had similar thoughts. The thing is, we don't have records that say that they did, or did not move fish. The only records we have are when whites showed up -- and we KNOW that they moved fish.

I do, however, know the location of some petroglyphs up Braffits Creek near Summit, UT. One petroglyph in particular is a fish. This stream has no record of having any kind of native fish in it prior to white man showing up and stocking fish in the creek. So, the question begs: did native americans have fish in this stream? were native fish in that stream at one time, but then disappeared? was a native american dreaming and wishing that the stream had fish? Who knows....


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Good stuff. Thought provoking to say the least.


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## Avram (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys! 

I guess what I'm most curious about is.. If I could go back 1000 years or more and hike up to a lake like.. Grandaddy lake, Or Red Castle lake, what kind of fish would I find? Cutthroat and whites like you guys were saying? Or no fish at ALL? And in a more realistic sense, what mountain lakes in the higher Utah ranges have not been bothered by man? Which have not been stocked with foreign fish that might still hold true indigenous fish?

I was just up at Clark's Lake in the La Sal's and we were catching tons of brook trout, and I just got thinking about how I was disappointed that these fish were not originally in this lake, and that man put them there. That's kind of what has spurred on these thought processes.


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## uintahiker (Jan 19, 2012)

1000 years ago most of the mountain lakes would have been fishless. A vertical drop of 3-4 feet is enough to keep the fish out.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Easiest way for a native to move fish would be to get some spawners, mix roe & milt and deposit in a new area. Certainly plausible it could happen, but I have my doubts.


-DallanC


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## Avram (Jun 25, 2011)

uintahiker said:


> 1000 years ago most of the mountain lakes would have been fishless. A vertical drop of 3-4 feet is enough to keep the fish out.


Hmm.. Don't birds transfer eggs from streams to lakes? I don't know if this is true, but I've heard it before.


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

There were few if any fish in the high Uintas or most high country Rocky Mountain lakes untill the whiteman started hauling them in milkjugs. In fact, if treehuggers and other special interest groups have their way, ALL stocking of fish in alpine lakes that have no history of holding fish will be stopped. Can you imagine? Gotta protect those frogs and salamanders!


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## uintahiker (Jan 19, 2012)

Avram said:


> uintahiker said:
> 
> 
> > 1000 years ago most of the mountain lakes would have been fishless. A vertical drop of 3-4 feet is enough to keep the fish out.
> ...


It could happen and has happened before, but most commonly the eggs areon some sort of mud on the bird's feet. Trout and coldwater fish are pretty unlikely for that to happen because they need cold clear water to spawn in and when mud covers the eggs, they die.


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## perdiz (Jun 15, 2012)

Utah Lake was at one time a pristine fresh water lake. The lake had several species of sucker fish and smaller sub-species of fry fish for predatory fish/animals to feed on. The ecosystem of this lake also was a major sanctuary for birds and nesting location.

Anciently Native Americans lived near the shores of this lake year round. A major portion of their diet was fish, small fresh water clams and bird species with larger game also being routinely killed. This has been since Paleo Indian era or about 12-13,000 years BP. 

The Bonneville cutthroat trout was a major species in the lake. Reports after the arrival of Mormon pioneers indicate major deployment and eventual decimation of native species in the Lake. We should be proud of ourselves !!

Fools--Now look what we have there-pollution, trash, and "don't eat--PCB'S !"


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

You are correct Perdiz about Utah Lake. But I think he was asking about waters down on Boulder Mountain.


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## perdiz (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeh but the earlier posts re: Boulder Mountains are accurate as far as we know. The main native species were cutthroat trout and whitefish and suckers as well as all smaller species. Brown trout introduced in like early 1900's and brook and lake, etc later. Mortality rate in shallower High Uinta Lakes would not have allowed fish to survive. Thus years ago many would be dead except those fish moving in seasonally via creeks and rivers/floods. But the majority were populated with cutthroat trout.


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## bigshooter (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm sure if the natives moved fish they did a better job of planting the right lake. Maybe our southern region should try to do some research on this. They might learn a thing or two. Haha still waiting PBH


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

bwhntr said:


> Good stuff. Thought provoking to say the least.


+1

So who planted those **** precious june suckers in Utah Lake that we seem to care so much about here in Utah?


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## Bscuderi (Jan 2, 2012)

tye dye twins said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > Good stuff. Thought provoking to say the least.
> ...


the big man in the sky


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## leviwin (Dec 7, 2011)

tye dye twins said:


> So who planted those **** precious june suckers in Utah Lake that we seem to care so much about here in Utah?


They are native to the lake. In fact they are endemic to the Lake and Provo River system and were used as food source by the pioneers for years.


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