# Karl is dead to me



## fixed blade XC-3

What do you think the % of NBA players actually claim their road game babies? From what I understand, Is alot of players on the road forget they're married.


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## coyoteslayer

I do DNA testing just like this and I cut off a piece of Hillbilly's mullet and found 35 kids who tested positive.


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## huntingbuddy

What a suprise


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## callofthewild

that is ok fatbass Karl has been dead to me since he put on that skirt and danced around with Dennis Rodman during those two nba finals.


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## NHS

He do what he do.....just sit back and see what happin.


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## Loke

Let's look at the positive, Karl hasn't been indicted for rape...........But he did wear a Lakers jersey.


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## Treehugnhuntr

I'm proud of him for not succumbing to public pressure to take care of his kid. It takes a big man to do that.

Nate is right, He do what he do. That's funny man. :lol:


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## OKEE

This man deserve a statue :shock:


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## quakeycrazy

It's too bad the man has the balls to refer to himself in the third person, but doesn't take responsibility for his actions. Just goes to show that any man can be a father, but takes someone specially to be a dad. Go Jazz, win the title so Malone will feel even more worthless that he couldn't do it, even with a cast of Laker's superstars........


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## bwhntr

I am sure he has made some poor choices in his life...that being said, there are two sides to every story.


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## FROGGER

Karl came to my elementary school when he was the spokesman for HARDEES... all we wanted was to see him dunk and all we received was him pushing chicken on us..


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## Treehugnhuntr

bwhntr said:


> I am sure he has made some poor choices in his life...that being said, there are two sides to every story.


You and your 2 bits. :roll:  :mrgreen: I agree.


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## bowgy

five peesus shicken five bucks :lol:


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## Treehugnhuntr

Yieh, Haaawdeees.


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## seniorsetterguy

bwhntr said:


> I am sure he has made some poor choices in his life...that being said, there are two sides to every story.


You mean there could be more??? This is bad enough.

Funny how we worship and build statues to slimeballs that can play hoops...and there are many hard working, honorable folks out there, who do the right thing day in and day out, in unspectacular occupations...and we don't know them nor do we acknowledge them.

Believe me, I love cheering for the Jazz. But Karl was never a hero to me. Would Karl have been so great without John? Would you rather have had the ball in John's hands or Karl's...with the game....or the series...or the championship on the line?

Would you rather call Karl Dad or John? Not all superstars are super slime balls...and because "perks" are so easy for them to come by...those who are faithful to wife and children are that much more admirable.


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## LOAH

LIVE BAIT FOR SALE!

What a creep! I was very surprised to read that. Thanks for the link, I've sent it to a whole pile of folks. 

Now I don't feel so bad that the statue looks like crap!  I say we stop cleaning the poop off of it from the roof rats (pigeons). It would be a more accurate reproduction of him.

Very disappointing.


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## bwhntr

seniorsetterguy said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure he has made some poor choices in his life...that being said, there are two sides to every story.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean there could be more??? This is bad enough.
> 
> Funny how we worship and build statues to slimeballs that can play hoops...and there are many hard working, honorable folks out there, who do the right thing day in and day out, in unspectacular occupations...and we don't know them nor do we acknowledge them.
> 
> Believe me, I love cheering for the Jazz. But Karl was never a hero to me. Would Karl have been so great without John? Would you rather have had the ball in John's hands or Karl's...with the game....or the series...or the championship on the line?
> 
> Would you rather call Karl Dad or John? Not all superstars are super slime balls...and because "perks" are so easy for them to come by...those who are faithful to wife and children are that much more admirable.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you were addressing that to me...if so, I never said I "worshipped" him or Stockton. I enjoyed watching them play when they played for the Jazz (huge difference). I wouldn't want either one for a father as I have a pretty good one already. My only point was people make mistakes in thier lives...and, like I said before, there are always two sides to every story...I would hate to think the only side I past judgement on was one the MEDIA presented to me! Take it for what it is worth.


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## jahan

bwhntr said:


> seniorsetterguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure he has made some poor choices in his life...that being said, there are two sides to every story.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean there could be more??? This is bad enough.
> 
> Funny how we worship and build statues to slimeballs that can play hoops...and there are many hard working, honorable folks out there, who do the right thing day in and day out, in unspectacular occupations...and we don't know them nor do we acknowledge them.
> 
> Believe me, I love cheering for the Jazz. But Karl was never a hero to me. Would Karl have been so great without John? Would you rather have had the ball in John's hands or Karl's...with the game....or the series...or the championship on the line?
> 
> Would you rather call Karl Dad or John? Not all superstars are super slime balls...and because "perks" are so easy for them to come by...those who are faithful to wife and children are that much more admirable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if you were addressing that to me...if so, I never said I "worshipped" him or Stockton. I enjoyed watching them play when they played for the Jazz (huge difference). I wouldn't want either one for a father as I have a pretty good one already. My only point was people make mistakes in thier lives...and, like I said before, there are always two sides to every story...I would hate to think the only side I past judgement on was one the MEDIA presented to me! Take it for what it is worth.
Click to expand...

+1000 bwhntr


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## GaryFish

Some of the facts of this case that need some consideration:

Malone was 18 or 19 when he got this girl pregnant.
The girl was 12 or 13 when he got her pregnant.
Malone was away on his own at college - not the NBA all-star who knew better to be careful, or at least get birth dates before he sewed his seed.

Now, these facts make this story both better to understand in that Malone was just a stupid, ****y, indestructible kid himself at the time he "donated" his sperm. But the story also gets more messed up because a college kid was doing someone still in elementary school - so it is more messed up in that regard. Its all pretty messed up.

But then again, Charles Barkley nailed it when he said that sports figures are not role models. I guess that is why I liked Stockton so much. I saw an interview where the reporter started asking him all kinds of stuff. He responded with something like "Look, I play basketball. I'll talk to you about basketball. But don't expect an opinion on anything else." I like that take very much.


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## bwhntr

GaryFish said:


> ...Charles Barkley nailed it when he said that sports figures are not role models. I guess that is why I liked Stockton so much. I saw an interview where the reporter started asking him all kinds of stuff. He responded with something like "Look, I play basketball. I'll talk to you about basketball. But don't expect an opinion on anything else." I like that take very much.


Excellent! Thanks.


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## seniorsetterguy

bwhntr said:


> seniorsetterguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure he has made some poor choices in his life...that being said, there are two sides to every story.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean there could be more??? This is bad enough.
> 
> Funny how we worship and build statues to slimeballs that can play hoops...and there are many hard working, honorable folks out there, who do the right thing day in and day out, in unspectacular occupations...and we don't know them nor do we acknowledge them.
> 
> Believe me, I love cheering for the Jazz. But Karl was never a hero to me. Would Karl have been so great without John? Would you rather have had the ball in John's hands or Karl's...with the game....or the series...or the championship on the line?
> 
> Would you rather call Karl Dad or John? Not all superstars are super slime balls...and because "perks" are so easy for them to come by...those who are faithful to wife and children are that much more admirable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if you were addressing that to me...if so, I never said I "worshipped" him or Stockton. I enjoyed watching them play when they played for the Jazz (huge difference). I wouldn't want either one for a father as I have a pretty good one already. My only point was people make mistakes in thier lives...and, like I said before, there are always two sides to every story...I would hate to think the only side I past judgement on was one the MEDIA presented to me! Take it for what it is worth.
Click to expand...


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## seniorsetterguy

I don't know if you were addressing that to me...if so, I never said I "worshipped" him or Stockton. I enjoyed watching them play when they played for the Jazz (huge difference). I wouldn't want either one for a father as I have a pretty good one already. My only point was people make mistakes in thier lives...and, like I said before, there are always two sides to every story...I would hate to think the only side I past judgement on was one the MEDIA presented to me! Take it for what it is worth.[/quote][/quote]

Shane,

No offense intended - the only part addressed to you was my attempt at humor about 2 sides to the story.

The rest was just me expressing my opinion. I still don't like Karl much. And I have a hard time imagining another side to the story that would justify ignoring a child...especially when the dad is someone in such a great position to help.

And, I already wrote this once, and submitted it...and for some reason it didn't show up.


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## dunn_gary

It would be nice to know the whole story. I am in agreement that taking the story of one journalist and making my judgement from that seems pretty absurd. I would like to know how the two met. Did she lie about her age? Was she the one who instigated the contact? Did she lie to him, or not even tell him she was pregnant? Was his first realization that he had fathered a child when he was court ordered to have the paternity test? No, I don't condone what he did, or what he has done since, but I don't have enough information to make a reasonable call on this one. He must be quite bitter about something. I seem to remember "judge not that ye be not judged".


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## seniorsetterguy

dunn_gary said:


> It would be nice to know the whole story. I am in agreement that taking the story of one journalist and making my judgement from that seems pretty absurd. I would like to know how the two met. Did she lie about her age? Was she the one who instigated the contact? Did she lie to him, or not even tell him she was pregnant? Was his first realization that he had fathered a child when he was court ordered to have the paternity test? No, I don't condone what he did, or what he has done since, but I don't have enough information to make a reasonable call on this one. He must be quite bitter about something. I seem to remember "judge not that ye be not judged".


DG, I always enjoy your posts and up til now have felt they were right on. However, in my opinion, I have plenty of information to decide whether Karl's treatment of his son is ethical (at least according to my value system). The young man is his son...meaning he was fathered by Karl. He was not forced into procreation. That's all I need to know. Regardless of how he feels about the mother, he should be the best father he can be to the young man.


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## Guest

fatbass said:


> This shocked me. This is the final nail in the coffin for Malone. Next time he's in SLC, I'm booing him.!


Oh yes, that would be so complimentary to the image of Jazz fans, and the state of Utah in general. :roll: Not only did we boo Derek Fisher when he returned to SLC in a Laker uniform, we also boo our own retired hall of fame star whose number hangs from the rafters.

Many Jazz fans, myself included, were always conflicted with Malone. You had to love his abilities and his work ethic on the court, but you also had to stomach his off-court antics and tantrums. Then there was his tendency to choke in clutch situations. You just had to taste the bitter with the sweet, and remind yourself that he was a professional basketball player and nothing more. It was definitely a love/hate relationship. It certainly was for Larry Miller. And, of course, his decision to leave the Jazz and go to the Lakers to get a cheap championship ring, which he failed to earn in Utah, by riding the coat tails of Kobe and Shaq, cost him much of his legacy among his fans here, and ironically (appropriately IMO) still did not get him his coveted ring.

I think it was fitting that the statue of John Stockton was erected first at the Delta Center, err, Energy Solutions Arena (cringe!), and the addition of the Mailman's statue was less of an individual honor for Malone and more of a completion of the tribute to the Stockton-Malone duo. In other words, without the statue of John Stockton there would probably not be a statue of Karl Malone either, nor should there be.


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## Treehugnhuntr

seniorsetterguy said:


> dunn_gary said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice to know the whole story. I am in agreement that taking the story of one journalist and making my judgement from that seems pretty absurd. I would like to know how the two met. Did she lie about her age? Was she the one who instigated the contact? Did she lie to him, or not even tell him she was pregnant? Was his first realization that he had fathered a child when he was court ordered to have the paternity test? No, I don't condone what he did, or what he has done since, but I don't have enough information to make a reasonable call on this one. He must be quite bitter about something. I seem to remember "judge not that ye be not judged".
> 
> 
> 
> DG, I always enjoy your posts and up til now have felt they were right on. However, in my opinion, I have plenty of information to decide whether Karl's treatment of his son is ethical (at least according to my value system). The young man is his son...meaning he was fathered by Karl. He was not forced into procreation. That's all I need to know. Regardless of how he feels about the mother, he should be the best father he can be to the young man.
Click to expand...

Your value system is wrong.


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## seniorsetterguy

dunn_gary said:


> I seem to remember "judge not that ye be not judged".


And here's another version of that scripture...one to which I subscribe: "Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged: but judge righteous judgment."

Judging is something we all need to do. We just need to do it fairly. Of course, fairness is always open to interpretation and differing opinions. And, we can all learn from negative role models and make judgments about what not to do.


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## seniorsetterguy

[quote="Treehugnhuntr

Your value system is wrong.[/quote]

You see...even THH agrees with me that it's OK to judge someone else's value system.

At least I made a point to say I was basing my opinions on my value system, implying it might differ from others' values. It seems apparent that civility is not part of THH's value system. Perhaps that will come at some point in his life?


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## Treehugnhuntr

seniorsetterguy said:


> [quote="Treehugnhuntr
> 
> Your value system is wrong.


You see...even THH agrees with me that it's OK to judge someone else's value system.

At least I made a point to say I was basing my opinions on my value system, implying it might differ from others' values. It seems apparent that civility is not part of THH's value system. Perhaps that will come at some point in his life?[/quote]

I beg to differ, I am a very civil person, although I have a propensity to pee off my deck at night, but that's how I choose to periodically connect to nature.

Another thing that has not escaped me this far is humor, Which is the exact category that my comment was intended to fall under, but sometimes words fall on deaf ears. (Another slightly semi-satyrical, slightly humorous, sarcastic comment. :wink: )


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## seniorsetterguy

Treehugnhuntr said:


> seniorsetterguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote="Treehugnhuntr
> 
> Your value system is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> You see...even THH agrees with me that it's OK to judge someone else's value system.
> 
> At least I made a point to say I was basing my opinions on my value system, implying it might differ from others' values. It seems apparent that civility is not part of THH's value system. Perhaps that will come at some point in his life?
Click to expand...

I beg to differ, I am a very civil person, although I have a propensity to pee off my deck at night, but that's how I choose to periodically connect to nature.

Another thing that has not escaped me this far is humor, Which is the exact category that my comment was intended to fall under, but sometimes words fall on deaf ears. (Another slightly semi-satyrical, slightly humorous, sarcastic comment. :wink: )[/quote]

BAAHAAAHAAAA!!!


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## Treehugnhuntr

That was the reaction (or something similar) that I was looking for. Remember, I'm the forum smartass. Well, there is the idiot, Berg and the hillbilly. :wink:


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## Petersen

If it weren't for a game that coincidentally favors physical abnormalities like gigantism, Karl Malone would be working at a car wash in Louisiana for a few bucks an hour. Quite honestly, I've never expected a whole lot from half these guys other than being able to dribble a ball.


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## .45

Petersen said:


> If it weren't for a game that coincidentally favors physical abnormalities like gigantism, Karl Malone would be working at a car wash in Louisiana for a few bucks an hour. Quite honestly, I've never expected a whole lot from half these guys other than being able to dribble a ball.


Jeez Pete !! :shock: :shock:

:rotfl: :rotfl:


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## FROGGER

Petersen said:


> If it weren't for a game that coincidentally favors physical abnormalities like gigantism, Karl Malone would be working at a car wash in Louisiana for a few bucks an hour. Quite honestly, I've never expected a whole lot from half these guys other than being able to dribble a ball.


Nailed it!!!

why we place so much of our attention on pro athletes boggles my mind. It seems as though most people expect them to have higher standards than they have for themselves. :roll:


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## bowhunter3

Do you guys realize how many sports figures does this stuff. Malone was a stand up man, I used to be a ball boy for the jazz and he treated me like he would treat anyone else. I liked the guy, if you guys are saying stockton is a better human being you guys are nutz. I love stocton he was one of my favorite players but he was not the human being everyone thinks he was, trust me. If you guys are going to judge Malone about this then you need to look at every superstar because they have done the same thing. You should have seen how many visiting players would take girls back to the hotel with them. They would have me go get them and tell them to meet them afterwards. The rocky mountain review was the worst for this.


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## fixed blade XC-3

bowhunter3 said:


> I love stocton he was one of my favorite players but he was not the human being everyone thinks he was, trust me.


I do know what you mean Bh3. I used to be a car wash kid at L.H. Miller Lexus. I would wash his car. I'll just leave it at that because I don't want to bad mouth him.


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## bwhntr

fatbass said:


> BWHNTR, the following is a quote of your from the FLDS post.
> 
> "I have been reading through the previous posts and I was quite surprised how much support most have for these people. I have mixed feelings on the subject, but I have no doubt that children were being abused. These people have been breaking the law for decades, just to which degree has yet to be determined. That being said, all we really know about the situation is what the media wants us to know. I find it difficult to sift through the sensationalizing the media puts on to try to find what may be factual. This might not be too popular but..If children are being abused in ANY way, I don't care how we get to them, we need to protect them at all costs, period."
> 
> Karl was proven, through legally court ordered DNA testing to be the father of Demetrius, from a 13 year old mother.
> 
> It looks like you have 2 sets of morals to me.
> 
> It's OK for Karl to father a child (that he will end up having nothing to do with) through the heinous crime of (statutorily) raping a 13 year old girl BUT it's not OK for the FLDS to marry a girl first and then bring the resulting baby into a loving home?


??? You couldn't be further from the truth. In fact with the quote you provided proves I have a constant approach to situations like this, I don't trust the media. They sensationalize most of what they print manipulating the facts to make you believe whatever they want you to believe. Don't believe me? Just open up any of the media outlets and read the one sided stories posted. I don't know that a girl was raped (as you spun it), if so I absolutely do not condone that. If there was a crime committed then the proper DA should take the case and prosecute. Apparently at this point someone doesn't think there is enough evidence to prove a crime was committed. This is going way off course...thanks for quoting me and showing my consistant stance on the media, and my lack of ability to prematurely past judgement on people I really don't know.


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## bwhntr

dunn_gary said:


> It would be nice to know the whole story. I am in agreement that taking the story of one journalist and making my judgement from that seems pretty absurd. I would like to know how the two met. Did she lie about her age? Was she the one who instigated the contact? Did she lie to him, or not even tell him she was pregnant? Was his first realization that he had fathered a child when he was court ordered to have the paternity test? No, I don't condone what he did, or what he has done since, but I don't have enough information to make a reasonable call on this one. He must be quite bitter about something. I seem to remember "judge not that ye be not judged".


Dunn_gary seems to know how to remove the blinders and ask questions...great post.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Crooked teeth, crossed eyes, club feet, cauliflower ear (Sorry epek), halitosis, red hair and acne, just to name a few.


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## Treehugnhuntr

I DO NOT have cauliflower ear. :mrgreen:


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## FROGGER

Mmmmmmmmmm cauliflower ear...


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## NHS

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Crooked teeth, crossed eyes, club feet, cauliflower ear (Sorry epek), halitosis, red hair and acne, just to name a few.


I don't see any reason to bring Zim into the middle of this discussion.


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## dunn_gary

Fatbass, in my original post, I said I do not condone what he has done nor continues to do. But I would like more info. I have some personal experience with a similar situation, that I will not get into, that maybe has opened my eyes to some possibilities. Unless you have walked in the shoes, it's very easy to be judgemental. By the way, why would anyone idolize the majority of professional athletes these days? Most are a bunch of spoiled, overpaid, self-indulgent crybabies. Very few are true gentlemen. Although, there are a few exceptions, hero worship of these is rediculous. Vince Lombardi once said that once the athletes are paid more than the coaches, the sport would deteriorate and be ridden with problems. We now see the result. Most professional sports have become a joke, but basketball is, by far, the worst. It is no longer a finess sport, but has become street corner jungle ball, with the players doing as much as they can get away with. I would love to see basketball return to being a noncontact sport, where skill is more important than brawn. The players of today couldn't exist if they had to play non contact. Most would foul out by the end of the 1st quarter. Football isn't much better. Once Lavelle Edwards got the use of hands by the offensive (in more ways than one) pushed through, blocking has become nonexistent. It is just grab hold and hang on. Where once linemen used to be required to have skill, now the big fat slow player has success. I don't watch pro sports much anymore because of it. High school and college is much more fun, although the smae problems exest, though not to the extent as in the pros. 

Now here is a chance for some of you to argue! No, the athletes of today are not better than previous generations. Merely the training techniques have improved. That happened when Science became involved. But I would love to see some of today's Utah best football teams go up against the Les Dunn Box Elder teams of the '60s. I also keep tabs on times and distances of high school and university track in the state of Utah. For the most part, times and distances are no better, and in fact in many cases, are worse than they were in the '60s. The best sprinters were running the equivalent of 10.7 or better 100 meters, 48 seconds 400, 50 feet + shotput, 140 feet + discus, 6' 5" + high jump, 22 feet + long jump, etc. Check out the times and distances now. 100 meters, 11.2, 400 meters, 52, 40-45 feet shotput, 125-135 discus, 20-21 feet long jump. These are what I see in the paper all the time. No, I don't think people were better athletes, just worked harder that most kids today.

A previous track coach at Logan High told me once that he didn't dare push the track athletes too much for fear they would quit. You will see though, that there is a very small percentage that do work hard and tend to do better than what I normally see in the paper. Unfortunately, that number is small.

I have umpired ball for several years. I always have to watch my self, because it is so funny when a 12-14 year old pitcher tries to stare me down and intimidate me because I didn't give him the call he wanted. This he learns from our Oh So Venerable Professional athletes.

Enough ranting. But one parting shot, that has been mention. Is Malone any worse than Bryant, or Barkely, or Johnson? Just to name a few. Did you notice when Magic was on the Olympic team, and Stockton was supposed to start, that some of his buddies took out Stockton (broke his leg) in practice so Magic could start? Yeah, pro athletes....... :evil:


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## bwhntr

fatbass said:


> I'm glad you are satisfied with being skeptical of the press, however, these are the facts that can't be spun by the press, Karl, you or me:
> 
> 1. Karl was 20 when he impregnated a child who was 13 at the time, which is statutory rape by definition.
> 
> 2. Karl was proven through DNA testing to be the father of the child born as a result of the union, thus making him responsible for the welfare of that child.
> 
> 3. Karl has refused to have any contact with the child he fathered, allowing a boy to grow up fatherless.
> 
> So I have one question for you. What extenuating circumstances make child abandonment acceptable in your world, bwhntr and Dunn_Gary?


Actually I believe anyone of those things can be spun...Don't tempt them they can do it! The fact that I won't prematurely pass judgement does not mean I condone the behaviors you stated. Again I will type out my very smiple statement...there are two sides to the story. I am sure Karl is no saint, I never thought he was. I just enjoyed watching him play basketball nothing more nothing less. Oh, and I appreciate his support towards SFW. I can think of sob stories I have heard from a so called abandoned mother. Hearing her side you yourself would have this guy hung by his toes...I know the other side and believe me it isn't the same as hers. There are many POS fathers out there and just as many mothers. I don't condone that, absolutely not. I have seen the media too many times spin things for a good story and I will not trust that. I will trust the source. Since I don't plan on talking with Karl or his children, I doubt I will ever know the real story...and for some reason life still goes on.


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## BIGBEAN

dunn_gary wrote:


> . Once Lavelle Edwards got the use of hands by the offensive (in more ways than one) pushed through, blocking has become nonexistent. It is just grab hold and hang on. Where once linemen used to be required to have skill, now the big fat slow player has success. I don't watch pro sports much anymore because of it. High school and college is much more fun, although the smae problems exest, though not to the extent as in the pros.


Last time I checked Lavelle only coached in the college ranks. 
If you think the players in the NFL are big fat and slow you are nuts. This is Jake Long who was the #1 draft pick (6'7", 313, 5.219 40 yard dash), this is Ryan Candy from Boise (6'6", 309, 5.15 40 yard dash) these guys are huge and fast. There poop is probably bigger than we are.



> For the most part, times and distances are no better, and in fact in many cases, are worse than they were in the '60s. The best sprinters were running the equivalent of 10.7 or better 100 meters, 48 seconds 400, 50 feet + shotput, 140 feet + discus, 6' 5" + high jump, 22 feet + long jump, etc. Check out the times and distances now. 100 meters, 11.2, 400 meters, 52, 40-45 feet shotput, 125-135 discus, 20-21 feet long jump. These are what I see in the paper all the time. No, I don't think people were better athletes, just worked harder that most kids today.


You should probably take a look at the state records and when they were achieved before you throw this statement out. Most of the records, (not all) are from the 80's and newer. Most of the records from the 60's and 70's you see are from events that aren't held any more. Just look at the shot put records of today 66' 6 1/2". I don't know what paper you are reading unless its the Box Elder Express :lol: , there are kids out there who work just as hard today as when you were a youngster. 
I will have to see if I can find it on the web, but I remember seeing individual state champions and there times and distances. Lets just say in the throwing events the state champions would barely even qualify to go to state now. :shock: 
http://www.uhsaa.org/btrack/BoysStateRecords.pdf

So are the athletes of today better than the athletes of decades past. Yes they are!!! Is it because of new training techniques and science, yes it is and that is why they are better. There is no way to improve the past you just have to live with it. You can dream and think that Box Elder would beat Timpview from 2007 but I am afraid that this is a dream you would wake up in a cold sweat, trembling and possibly crying from 

As far as your basketball gripe, I agree whole heartedly. I wish it would go back to non contact. But I am afraid that the players could adjust to the way the game is called. I don't think the players from back when could adjust to the speed and the jumping ability that is prevalent in todays game.

I idolize and worship these athletes for what they are able to do as athletes on the field not what they are or do as citizens off of the field.

Just remember your not as good as you once was but your as good once as you ever was. :lol:


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## Guest

dunn_gary said:


> Once Lavelle Edwards got the use of hands by the offensive (in more ways than one) pushed through, blocking has become nonexistent. It is just grab hold and hang on. Where once linemen used to be required to have skill, now the big fat slow player has success. I don't watch pro sports much anymore because of it. High school and college is much more fun, although the smae problems exest, though not to the extent as in the pros.


Huh :?: :?: :?:

Please elaborate on this Dunn_Gary.


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## dunn_gary

Guys, guys, I'm not saying that things aren't as good. There are some incredible athletes now. But did you notice that I said the athletes are no better, but the training techniques are, more scientific, hence, the old records have been broken, not necessarily by supirior athletes, but by athletes that are every bit as talented with better training. That has gone on forever, since records have been kept on this sort of thing. Always trying to find a better way.

As far as the Lavell Edwards thing, because of the type of offense he head, it played to his advantage the get the rules changed to allow the linemen to use their hands. Once he got that rule changed, for which he lobbied long and hard, he was able the get his teams to the top. Of course, the rule was changed in the pros as well, all becaus od Lavell. It allowed the big fat slow guy to succeed, when before he couldn't. That doesn't mean to say that all linemen are big, fat, slow, no talent, slobs. The best, as you all have noticed, I'm sure, are not. But there is a certain amount of that that takes place, especially in the high school and university ranks. The best teams tend to have linemen that are slimmer and quicker. But take a look this fall. The slimmest and the quickest tend to also be defensive linemen. Have you ever noticed a three man rush on the quarterback? It takes up to three offensive linemen to block, even allowing the use of hands, these quick defensive people.

But did you all notice? I said I was going to give you something to argue about. And, well, there you have it! :mrgreen:


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