# Cedar city grouse



## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

I heard there's some good blue grouse hunting near cedar city. Any recommendations where to look in that area?


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I wander ALL over Cedar Mountain, and I have not seen a blue in at least 15 years....
Used to see them in the Red Desert, once in a while in Webster's Flat. But since the road was improved to Red Desert, and everyone and their dog goes in there I have not even see a regular pine hen.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

It might be a little bit of a drive for you but I saw a fair number of them in the horse valley area near panguitch lake last year. I used to get a few every year on my families private land on the zion unit, but it seems like their numbers are pretty low right now, so I've been giving them a break.


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## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

Really? I seen a story on dwr website saying there quite a few grouse around cedar city. Panguitch isn't too far if I tag a deer in time. I was there in June and it wasn't too long a drive. I'm coming in from Texas so what's a little more drive lol


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## utahtim (Aug 29, 2012)

I hunted cedar mountain a fair bit last year and found one group of grouse all season, I have also been up scouting for grouse a few times and still haven't seen any so far this year.


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## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

Well that doesn't sound too promising then. Might have to look elsewhere. I wonder where dwr is seeing all these grouse then


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Spotnstalk said:


> Well that doesn't sound too promising then. Might have to look elsewhere. I wonder where dwr is seeing all these grouse then


Don't always believe what you read in print from the DWR.

A few years ago when I was first thinking of hunting deer on the west desert in the Indian Peaks Wildlife Management area I pulled up the information for it on the DWR's web site. It said that there were dusky grouse and fishing to be found in the management area. In 5 years of hunting it I never did see a grouse and the only spot that I saw that you might of been able to fish was a small water impoundment area that only had a small stream that would feed it during a very wet year or during the springtime, but no fish.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

There is grouse around on Cedar mountain, just very few blue grouse, which is what the question was. There is a difference in the way the blues look.
Don't see as many grouse (pine hens as we call them) as we did before the turkey vultures moved in a few years back. They are very hard on the pines hens.
I have a few pine hens hanging around our area, but we quit shooting them a while back so they don't get totally wiped out. Like having them around.


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## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

I applaud you for that. Too many shoot first and think later when they're all gone


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

2full said:


> There is grouse around on Cedar mountain, just very few blue grouse, which is what the question was. There is a difference in the way the blues look.
> Don't see as many grouse (pine hens as we call them) as we did before the turkey vultures moved in a few years back. They are very hard on the pines hens.
> I have a few pine hens hanging around our area, but we quit shooting them a while back so they don't get totally wiped out. Like having them around.


What is the distinction between the grouse and blue grouse you're talking about? As far as I know we only have two types of grouse in southern Utah: blue grouse and sage grouse. There are ruffed grouse up north, but I don't believe we have any of those on Cedar Mountain. What effect do the turkey vultures have on pine hen? I have seen a lot of them in recent years and not very many pine hen so I can definitely believe they impact them.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

The blues grouse have a pretty blue color to them, the ones we see are brown in color. Used to see the blues once in a while, but have not seen any in years.
There used to be a good bunch of Sage hens out by Parowan Gap, and towards Minerville. Hunted then a few times, was like shooting B-52's out of the air. 
Tough birds.........Now there is not a hunt around here any more. 

The turkey vultures are very efficent hunter, they hunt together in "herds" of 5 or 6, working together. They prey on anything smaller than they are. We used to have dozens of pine hens on our little place, pre-vulture era.........Now we see maybe 10-12 they whole year, and they don't come out of the oak.
They also like to eat dead things, I have seen them strip a dead skunk down to nothing but bones in one day, fur and all.
From what I have been told, they are protected, so there is nothing that can be done.

Colorcountry, have you seen the California Condors that were planted up there ?
Huge birds, and amazing to watch, but they are VERY protected and watched ALL the time. Some of the guys down below my place on the edge of the gulch have problems with them at the cabins. They chew on everything. Wildlife people are trying to get everyone to quit using lead ammo to help them survive. They eat the carcess of anything shot, and the lead in the ammo kills them.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I see plenty of blue grouse on Cedar Mountain above Cedar City. You have to spend time in the pines bordering grass fields and you'll find them. They aren't sage grouse, either.

Blue Hen:










More color than the prairie variety and they do have a blue hue to them.

Sage Hen:


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

klbzdad,
Now that you say that about the pines, we used to see the blues at a little higher altitudes in the pines. I rarely go high anymore. I stay down where the quakies meet the oak most of the time, hardly ever hunt the pines. Prob why haven't seen a blue for a while.
Thanks for putting the pics up.


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## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

Sent you a private message klbz


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## donarcher (Dec 16, 2009)

from my experience, the closest possible location with high prospects would be the Fish Lake area. D


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

2full said:


> The blues grouse have a pretty blue color to them, the ones we see are brown in color. Used to see the blues once in a while, but have not seen any in years.
> There used to be a good bunch of Sage hens out by Parowan Gap, and towards Minerville. Hunted then a few times, was like shooting B-52's out of the air.
> Tough birds.........Now there is not a hunt around here any more.
> 
> ...


 2full, I see the Condors quite a bit actually. Whenever a rancher's sheep dies they always come in and play clean up crew. Last year I made a bad hit on my buck on the archery hunt but was determined to find him come hell or high water. I ended up finding him, but unfortunately not until after the meat was spoiled. Five condors and dozens of turkey vultures gave away his location. I have left a few lead bullet tainted, deer gut piles up there for the condors to feast on. I'm wondering how long it's going to be until I'm forced to go the non-lead route. I know lots of people love the copper bullets, but when they cost twice as much as standard copper jacketed lead bullets I just can't bring myself to use them. I've picked up a couple free boxes of barnes ttsx with the vouchers they send all the Zion hunters, and they didn't shoot worth a hooey out of the '06 I tried them with. But that '06 was a Remington 742 so...


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I only rifle hunt when I get a cow tag on the zion hunt. I usually try to get my cow on my deer hunt when I draw. So I have not taken them up on the offer for the copper loads. I have a cow tag this year, so I may take them up on the offer and try shooting them to see if the work in my old '06.
I actually have not done a rifle deer hunt since they made us pick a hunt years ago.
I'm sure the lead muzzle load bullets aren't good for them as well.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

On the copper bullets try going down a few grains and see how they shoot them. If you are shooting 150gr lead core bullets try some 140's or if you are shooting 160-168gr loads go to 150's. I have been shooting Barnes bullets now for over 12 years and have yet to find lead core bullets that are comparable to them out of my 7mm Rem mag or my .340 Weatherby. 

I don't think that lead bullets out of a ML go to pieces like they do out of a high power rifle and that is where the problem comes in from condors feeding on gut piles. Bullets that fragment send the small fragments all over the place but lead ML bullets tend to stay together and just flatten out.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Critter said:


> On the copper bullets try going down a few grains and see how they shoot them. If you are shooting 150gr lead core bullets try some 140's or if you are shooting 160-168gr loads go to 150's. I have been shooting Barnes bullets now for over 12 years and have yet to find lead core bullets that are comparable to them out of my 7mm Rem mag or my .340 Weatherby.
> 
> I don't think that lead bullets out of a ML go to pieces like they do out of a high power rifle and that is where the problem comes in from condors feeding on gut piles. Bullets that fragment send the small fragments all over the place but lead ML bullets tend to stay together and just flatten out.


That's what I hear, Critter. I guess the copper bullets are longer than your lead bullets of comparable weight so you go with a lighter copper bullet to get a comparable size? The one's I used were 180 grainers. I shoulda went with the 168s, but I didn't know about going a weight down with copper bullets at the time. I'd like to try some 168s in a more accurate bolt action .30-06 sometime and see how they do. Some people get great accuracy out of them and say that the penetration and terminal performance is second to none.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Sounds like I need to try the copper bullets. I usually use a 165 gr partition for elk.
My '06 is a Remington BDL. Has always been a very good shooting gun.
I will get some of them if the offer is made this year.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't have any bullets to really compare one to the other for length besides some 120 grain 7mm bullets but between those two they are about equal, or not enough to make any difference. I am also not just sure why they shoot better out of my rifles but they do, perhaps it is the hardness of the copper when it engages the rifling in the barrel. 

I know that there are some that complane that the solid copper bullet didn't expand but that is hard to tell on a game animals hide where it can stretch a little on the exit wound. I know of the dozen or so elk, couple of deer and a black bear that I haven't had one recovered bullet to see just what it is doing besides its job. All the animals that I have shot with a Barnes bullet have been one shot kills except for a bull elk that didn't go down on the first hit so I shot him the second time. The first round would of done the job if I would of waited but on elk you don't wait.

I do know that after the first animal that I killed with the solid copper bullet I was sold on them.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Took this coming into one of my honey holes tonight. Blue sage hens are all over the place on Cedar Mountain. This was up by Sydney Valley.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Yep, right across the road from Red Desert...........
Looks good, nice pic !!


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## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

Nice pic. Hoping I get the time to walk the mountain a little while I'm in utah


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