# 2014 Monroe Spike-O-Rama



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Who would like to join me on for a great time killing spikes on the Monroe next year? Please respond with the number you plan to bring. 

Myself, my bro, and my daughter make three.-------SS


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

I am in. I can bring my two brothers too.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm in. We had 3 tags this year. I'm sure we can at least double it next year.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm down.... I only live a couple hours away. If folks need to crash at the house before we head down or whatever, Gutpilers are welcome. Or we could go crash on the mountain, get all boozed up and bash on ol 1I. You think we should keep an agenda of the hunt on a gas station napkin?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Its a hop skip and jump. I'm in plus three.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

15-----ss


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Somebody bring the ode to 1 eye poem and we'll take turns reciting it around the campfire.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

count me in. myself, the wife, and 4 kids. they are amazing at poking fun at people. All they need is a topic and a target.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

5 chets will be attending


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## jayo (Jul 10, 2013)

Me and 1, maybe 2. Maybe I'll buy my grandma a tag too. I'll bring the Pendeleton, who's got some pinners?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Idiotic, childish, and rediculous backlash from people that think they know everything . Have fun, you'll really be proving a point with this thread, have fun great white hunters. Apparently I'm all some of you think about. Thanks I'm glad I'm such a big influence in your lives.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

jayo said:


> Me and 1, maybe 2. Maybe I'll buy my grandma a tag too. I'll bring the Pendeleton, who's got some pinners?


We can pick up some pinners while we are out in Cali pig hunting. Are there any wild pigs on the Monroe?------SS


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## jayo (Jul 10, 2013)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Idiotic, childish, and rediculous backlash from people that think they know everything . Have fun, you'll really be proving a point with this thread, have fun great white hunters. Apparently I'm all some of you think about. Thanks I'm glad I'm such a big influence in your lives.


If I'm not mistaken, you are the one who seems to know everything. Anyone that doesn't agree with the all knowing 1 eye is wrong. I think you might have some good idea's in an ideal world, but outside of Monroe City limits this world aint ideal. There are too many people in this state that like to hunt to take away a whole mountain range and reserve it for the residents of Monroe City or Sevier County. Those little towns would dry up if it wasn't for the very people that are, in your eyes, ruining it.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

jayo said:


> If I'm not mistaken, you are the one who seems to know everything. Anyone that doesn't agree with the all knowing 1 eye is wrong. I think you might have some good idea's in an ideal world, but outside of Monroe City limits this world aint ideal. There are too many people in this state that like to hunt to take away a whole mountain range and reserve it for the residents of Monroe City or Sevier County. Those little towns would dry up if it wasn't for the very people that are, in your eyes, ruining it.


Really there's a pretty big coal mine that's benefitted a lot of the things you enjoy I'm sure.


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## a_bow_nut (Feb 25, 2009)

The wife, kid, and I will pitch in too.

.Elkapaloosa


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Where's base camp going to be?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> Where's base camp going to be?


1 eyes back yard. He'll supply the beer and/or soda. From the sounds of it he lives close enough to the mountain we can take pot shots at the elk as they run by being pushed by the hoardes of other people.


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## Slipknot (Sep 16, 2007)

I am down. Bringing my brothers Beastwood.54. Darkhorn and Coyote if that's cool with you cats.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

37 as of this morning. Sounds like a lot of fun. I wonder if they will be issuing management tags so we can shoot some cows too?-------SS


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's what Paul Niemyer had to say about Monroe elk at the
Wildlife Board meeting in April when tag numbers were set for 2013...

"
Paul Niemeyer: Paul Niemeyer, and I appreciate you guys letting us come to speak. I'm representing
SFW. The item that I want to talk about is some Monroe bulls. We got into a pretty heavy harvest on
those bulls for several years. We got below the management plan. We're starting to creep up. We're still
not there. What we're asking for is that the recommendation was for 29 bull tags; we'd like to go to 25,
which is what it was last year. We're at about 6.2 right now and you know, we're trying to manage for
7.5 to 8 year old bulls. The other thing that we're concerned about is last year we killed 165 spikes on
that Monroe. And on the Fish Lake we only killed 152 and the Fish Lake's got 3 times the elk; which
demonstrates how easy this Monroe is to hunt. There's more access, uh, you know there's roads about
everywhere. You don't have the real road less areas. You've got a few drainages that don't have access
but it's pretty easy because you're on top of the drainage. So it is easy to hunt and you can't have many
bulls here or many bull tags and have much quality. Now we're also asking for 240 antlerless tags on
that, which when you throw that on there and the spike hunt on there we're not going to have much
recruitment into these older age bulls. And we've been down already; we're trying to come back up so
we would ask for 25 instead of 29. And the other thing Lance alluded to is we would like to see this on
the action log for the Wildlife Board, the spike hunting affect on some of these units. Monroe is
obviously going to be really easy to harvest a lot of spikes and we're going to see some real poor
recruitment down the road on these bigger bulls if we keep uncontrolled spike hunting there. That's our
recommendations. Thank you."​
You can read the full discusion from the WLB meeting here:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac_minutes/13-04.pdf
Page 12...​
It is now an Action Item , and will be presented at upcoming RAC meetings..​


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Yea I was reading that yesterday Goofy. Actually read almost the entire thing. I couldn't help but to wonder if it was second or third hand news at the time but I guess that is besides the point. In all honestly though, what was recommended there is something concrete with numbers that don't fluctuate and are not random guesses or ignorant rants. Far more palatable even though I have a completely different idea of what "quality" means than the SFW, 1-I and yourself.


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

Trails everywhere? Almost no roadless areas? Thanks for the report Goofy. Put me down for two more. Now my dad and his buddy can ride quads or road hunt. I think this spot is going to become one of Utah's favorite and easiest hunting spots!


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## jayo (Jul 10, 2013)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Really there's a pretty big coal mine that's benefitted a lot of the things you enjoy I'm sure.


wtf does this even mean?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

As much as I am irritated by the keyboard diarrhea that is often spewed by the butt of this joke, I kind of think that this thread is over the top and that bullying isn't the best way to handle it. Shouldn't we just push the ignore button and not read the drivel instead? But I will admit that as "easy" as he has made the Monroe unit seem, I am way more interested in trying it out someday than I ever would have been before....


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

johnnycake said:


> As much as I am irritated by the keyboard diarrhea that is often spewed by the butt of this joke, I kind of think that this thread is over the top and that bullying isn't the best way to handle it. Shouldn't we just push the ignore button and not read the drivel instead? But I will admit that as "easy" as he has made the Monroe unit seem, I am way more interested in trying it out someday than I ever would have been before....


My take on this thread is that it is nothing more than a response to challenge to see how many guys can be recruited for a spike hunt.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

you guys are a bunch of bungholes!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

ouch


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> My take on this thread is that it is nothing more than a response to challenge to see how many guys can be recruited for a spike hunt.


The "locals" are saying they want better recruitment, right? Here's yer sign.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Hmmmmm spikes are easy to hunt on the Monroe? Since I just busted my butt up on the Cache unit trying to seal the deal on a spike I think I could come down to the Monroe as a contingency next year... You can count me in. 

Also according to Paul Niemeyer the elk hunting down there is so easy I guess that I will be putting in for that unit and settle for a 6.2 yr old bull. Funny how this representative of SFW wants a unit filled with roads to be protected to 7.5-8 yr old yields on bulls in the unit. This to me is the classic mentality of trophy hunting dominating the sport. It will be a lottery winning that tag and when the tag is drawn you can just drive the roads to glory and position yourself in the record books for being a supporter of SFW. 

I don't like the idea of decreasing opportunity for the sake of fixing trophy hunts for auction tag holders. The Monroe's biggest concern should be the deer population anyways.


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

Now that camp sounds like a group of true sportsman. Again a group of concerned sportsman meets with the DWR because they have some concerns about a local unit. The result is a bunch of "sportsman" that could have cared less about the Monroe throw a fit. You guys really do blow me away. First you didn't believe the meeting took place then you react like this? Really guys? I mean really take a step back and look at the childishness of this. Unbelievable that true "sportsman" would act like this. If you disagree then by all mean go to a RAC meeting, schedule a meeting with the DWR, attend a WB meeting. If you don't really care enough to try and make a difference then you are all just being clowns and bullying 1 Eye. Guess that just don't set right with me. Now desire to consider you fellow sportsman if that is the case.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

Muley73 said:


> Now that camp sounds like a group of true sportsman. Again a group of concerned sportsman meets with the DWR because they have some concerns about a local unit. The result is a bunch of "sportsman" that could have cared less about the Monroe throw a fit. You guys really do blow me away. First you didn't believe the meeting took place then you react like this? Really guys? I mean really take a step back and look at the childishness of this. Unbelievable that true "sportsman" would act like this. If you disagree then by all mean go to a RAC meeting, schedule a meeting with the DWR, attend a WB meeting. If you don't really care enough to try and make a difference then you are all just being clowns and bullying 1 Eye. Guess that just don't set right with me. Now desire to consider you fellow sportsman if that is the case.


I will second this.. A whole thread dedicated to harass and make fun of someone that posts something.. I thought last weeks bullying was bad.. I can't believe this! It just shows that if you post something on here that the "collective" doesn't agree with or like, they send all the ASS-CLOWNS on the person.. I would have to wonder if this would happen if we were communicating face to face.. I wonder who would mock then?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I for one am not ashamed of anything that I have posted on this thread. The concern for the local unit is from "Local Hunters" yes their precious spike resource has been decreased and yes the unit is getting shot to hell because of the accessibility of the terrain, but the big concern is not the elk in the unit but the addressed concern by the Paul is that he would like record trophy bulls out of the unit. 

When you have auction tags in your pocket to throw to the highest bidder it makes sense to do anything possible to make those tags appeal to the public and in this case it comes at the expense of the general public because they have managed to successfully harvest expendable elk.

It is justified to acknowledge that there are hunters that give no sympathy to those with the objective of protecting spike elk for the purpose breeding trophy animals for future. The unsportsmanlike conduct that I observe is the hunter who requests that hundreds of hunters lose their piece of the pie over the course of several years so that 4 tag holders have the opportunity to harvest a bull that is 1.3 years older. 

Considering fellow sportsman would be not holding a meeting about hunters who successfully harvested animals that were not trophies. Considering fellow sportsman is being happy for those who are learning how to hunt utilizing expendable spike elk in their progression as hunters and not throwing a fit over 1.3 additional years of maturity.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

^^^that^^^


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Muley, I could not AGREE more:!::!::!:......

Spot on....

And it's good to see ya on this forum,
I'd sure like to see more from NBrebel, Slamdunk, Coldtrack, Tblack, Tjustinson,
These 'Type' guys that used to post here come back!!!!!

This forum has lost some VERY, VERY, good imput from smart guys that USED
to post here...............


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Hey everyone, I just wanted to let you know this thread consists of some great ideas, thought processes, and a representation of all those who have posted in favor of such a childish backlash of an idea. I posted something you don't like so you're going to set out to prove my point more? Alright sounds to me like you're making my point even more. 

So tell me guys when you go to a meeting is this the kind of 2 year old **** you bring to defend yourself? Childish tactics, stupid ass bullying tactics, and ridiculous ideas that make you all look stupid, especially when they pass the opposite thing that you wanted every time? Step back and realize you have no reasonable ideas, all you have is childish tactics for people who don't agree with you, which are the majority in the state. Go sit in your f***ing corner for a while and cry it out, dip****s. You don't like my idea so you start a while thread dedicated to the slaughter of a unit? To prove what? To prove I'm right and none of you really care about our wildlife in the state, as long as you get to hunt every year? To prove destroying our wildlife is worth opportunity? To prove you really could care less what counts, numbers, or any other figure says as long as you can jump on the computer chair biologist bandwagon and head for the hills with your tag whether it's good management or not? You proved my point very well, your all a bunch of crybaby's with childish tactics who could care less what happens to populations or management as long as you get to go out and kill whether it's good management or not. 

You should all be very ashamed of such ridiculous courses of action, and such stupid childish ideas. Good luck hunting it when it's shut down guys. Have fun. Thanks for proving my point even more. If I couldn't get it shut down, good to see all of you are going to help me.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

What the freak just happened?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I could not give a rip about what many perceive to be quality. Those that are all about trophy hunting.........sorry you will probably never have my back and I will speak out against it. I think it is best suited for those with small mans syndrome. If I happen to join in the harassment of others or even instigate some of it tough luck......those people that get offended can grow some thicker skin or quit pushing stuff that I do not support. Action/reaction. 

I gave the SFW a fair shot and I am sorry it wasn't for me. Bigger doesn't mean better to me. Bigger doesn't mean quality to me. When I decided that I was bowing out of the SFW one of the local VIP's stopped by my office to try talk me out of it. I knew that all he wanted and they wanted in the end was my money. I still have the knife that he gave me that day as a reminder that it is all about size and cash. Not dogging many of the members that participate but I have learned to know the leaders and those that speak upon their behalf plenty well. With regards to the Monroe....if it becomes purely a general season elk unit that would be absolutely fine with me. The quality of the herd there I am sure is doing just fine when it comes to counting the number of elk that are in it and not the inches that they carry.


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

This^^^^^^

Well said Skinner.


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## a_bow_nut (Feb 25, 2009)

:OX/::OX/::OX/::OX/::OX/:


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


-oOo--oOo--oOo--oOo--oOo--oOo--oOo--oOo-


-BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!-


Hook, line, and sinker.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I could not give a rip about what many perceive to be quality. Those that are all about trophy hunting.........sorry you will probably never have my back and I will speak out against it. I think it is best suited for those with small mans syndrome. If I happen to join in the harassment of others or even instigate some of it tough luck......those people that get offended can grow some thicker skin or quit pushing stuff that I do not support. Action/reaction.
> 
> I gave the SFW a fair shot and I am sorry it wasn't for me. Bigger doesn't mean better to me. Bigger doesn't mean quality to me. When I decided that I was bowing out of the SFW one of the local VIP's stopped by my office to try talk me out of it. I knew that all he wanted and they wanted in the end was my money. I still have the knife that he gave me that day as a reminder that it is all about size and cash. Not dogging many of the members that participate but I have learned to know the leaders and those that speak upon their behalf plenty well. With regards to the Monroe....if it becomes purely a general season elk unit that would be absolutely fine with me. The quality of the herd there I am sure is doing just fine when it comes to counting the number of elk that are in it and not the inches that they carry.


This is my biggest problem. You're just assuming things, you're assuming the whole state is the same, that everything is the exact same way. IT'S NOT. Don't give input on situations you know nothing about.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

I really don't know what to think of all this. First 1-eye you know your going to get hounded when you post just about anything, yet you keep doing it I think you might like it. If I was you I would just be proud of myself and the fact I'm putting effort into helping my area with what I feel is best. You don't need confirmation from anyone on this forum if you feel what your doing is right. 
As for the whole elk situation and for that matter all wildlife in Utah I took a look in the proclamation and on the dwr website and even a Google search of the web and can't find anywhere were it says if you draw a tag to hunt your guaranteed a record book animal. This is what I believe people like you and goofy and the people at sfw think. 
I realize that there are people that want inches and then those that like to actually hunt. The problem is how much do those that just want to hunt have to give up in order for those that like inches to be happy? 
I'm not going to make any judgements on Monroe as I've never been there and if you think it needs help then go ahead and fight for change but don't try to change the whole state to fit what you think is good. 
Anyway I will not be joining the spike hunt though it sounds fun! I have plenty around where I live to chase.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> This is my biggest problem. You're just assuming things, you're assuming the whole state is the same, that everything is the exact same way. IT'S NOT. Don't give input on situations you know nothing about.


Actually you don't seem to get it........here you go:

*I DON'T LIKE ANY MANAGEMENT THAT IS DONE TO PROMOTE BIGGER TROPHY ANIMALS. PERIOD. IF IT WERE UP TO ME NONE OF THE LE UNITS WOULD EXIST AT ALL UNLESS IT WAS DONE STRICTLY DUE TO THE NUMBER OF ANIMALS WITHIN THE HERD AND DEMAND EXCEEDS SUPPLY.*


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Goofy and 1 eye lost all credibility. Goofy started his wasatch thread to show everyone how bad it sucks and everyone posted amazing animals and great success stories. Now he 1 eye and Miley 73 are crying about people being mean. You guys spew your garbage about quality and inches and when we don't by into the whole "sky is falling" we are bullies. Goofy is the 1 eye of the 801. 

Some very funny responses though.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Goofy and 1 eye lost all credibility. Goofy started his wasatch thread to show everyone how bad it sucks and everyone posted amazing animals and great success stories. Now he 1 eye and Miley 73 are crying about people being mean. You guys spew your garbage about quality and inches and when we don't by into the whole "sky is falling" we are bullies. Goofy is the 1 eye of the 801.
> 
> Some very funny responses though.


Your an idiot Marty, look how big of a dumbass you just looked like, all you did was name those who disagree with you and give some stupid bull**** that has no credibility. Would you give it up? People will disagree with you accept it and quite crying. The majority when you get outside of this forum disagree with you and agree with me. You're a very small sample of people who just don't get it and can't open their eyes for themselves and take a look. You rely on others information to form your opinion.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Actually you don't seem to get it........here you go:
> 
> *I DON'T LIKE ANY MANAGEMENT THAT IS DONE TO PROMOTE BIGGER TROPHY ANIMALS. PERIOD. IF IT WERE UP TO ME NONE OF THE LE UNITS WOULD EXIST AT ALL UNLESS IT WAS DONE STRICTLY DUE TO THE NUMBER OF ANIMALS WITHIN THE HERD AND DEMAND EXCEEDS SUPPLY.*


Well as of now and well into the future you'll be waiting 15-20 years so we don't need to ruin things and wait that long.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Your an idiot Marty, look how big of a dumbass you just looked like, all you did was name those who disagree with you and give some stupid bull**** that has no credibility. Would you give it up? People will disagree with you accept it and quite crying. The majority when you get outside of this forum disagree with you and agree with me. You're a very small sample of people who just don't get it and can't open their eyes for themselves and take a look. You rely on others information to form your opinion.


Don't be so sure of yourself about more people agreeing with you. Just because things you want done have passed doesn't mean the majority wanted it. It means you aligned yourself with a group SFW that had the money to overrule any majority vote.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Your an idiot Marty, look how big of a dumbass you just looked like, all you did was name those who disagree with you and give some stupid bull**** that has no credibility. Would you give it up? People will disagree with you accept it and quite crying. The majority when you get outside of this forum disagree with you and agree with me. You're a very small sample of people who just don't get it and can't open their eyes for themselves and take a look. You rely on others information to form your opinion.


The village idiot called me an idiot. Ouch. Dear 1 eye. Please pull your head out of your ass. It's affecting brain cells.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

mikevanwilder said:


> Don't be so sure of yourself about more people agreeing with you. Just because things you want done have passed doesn't mean the majority wanted it. It means you aligned yourself with a group SFW that had the money to overrule any majority vote.


I suggest you start asking people with actual experience before jumping to that conclusion. The majority know and can see things have gone to ****.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> The village idiot called me an idiot. Ouch. Dear 1 eye. Please pull your head out of your ass. It's affecting brain cells.


As I said Marty the few on this forum represent nothing to me and neither do you. You won't see anything go your way, so sit back and watch my opinions get carried out while you just bitch and moan.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I suggest you start asking people with actual experience before jumping to that conclusion. The majority know and can see things have gone to ****.


I know plenty of people who hunt Monroe yearly that haven't complained once. Not one of them have your same views. 
Again I'm not going to comment on what is going on on the monroe. But to say the majority of the people that hunt Monroe want something doesn't mean the majority of the state wants it for the whole state.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Goofy and 1 eye lost all credibility. Goofy started his wasatch thread to show everyone how bad it sucks and everyone posted amazing animals and great success stories. Now he 1 eye and Miley 73 are crying about people being mean. You guys spew your garbage about quality and inches and when we don't by into the whole "sky is falling" we are bullies. Goofy is the 1 eye of the 801.
> 
> Some very funny responses though.


I for one am happy that Goofy did make thread on the Wasatch... I for one AGREE WITH HIM 1000000TRILLION PERCENT! Tonz of hunting presure and way to many cow tags... But your going to read the threads comments how you want and ignore the against your ideas comments. THat is what is great about america we all can have an opinion and there are those like you that will find anything wrong with it possible!!!!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Well as of now and well into the future you'll be waiting 15-20 years so we don't need to ruin things and wait that long.


We'll be waiting that long for specific areas that are LE only strictly due to the bigger is better syndrome. How long is the current wait for a general tag?

In the past 40 years the number of elk hunters afield doubled from roughly 24,000 to 54,000. The elk herd has almost quadrupled in that same span from an estimated 18,000 elk to 68,000.

Somebody want to explain to me why LE entry even exist and more specifically why it takes so long to draw a LE tag and THEN have a 5 year waiting period?


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> We'll be waiting that long for specific areas that are LE only strictly due to the bigger is better syndrome. How long is the current wait for a general tag?
> 
> In the past 40 years the number of elk hunters afield doubled from roughly 24,000 to 54,000. The elk herd has almost quadrupled in that same span from an estimated 18,000 elk to 68,000.
> 
> Somebody want to explain to me why LE entry even exist and more specifically why it takes so long to draw a LE tag and THEN have a 5 year waiting period?


You must be new around here? It's managed for trophy, lot of inches bulls, the quest of 400 so to say... I am surprized nobody has told ya if you want to shoot rag horns then go to Colorado....


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TAK said:


> I for one am happy that Goofy did make thread on the Wasatch... I for one AGREE WITH HIM 1000000TRILLION PERCENT! Tonz of hunting presure and way to many cow tags... But your going to read the threads comments how you want and ignore the against your ideas comments. THat is what is great about america we all can have an opinion and there are those like you that will find anything wrong with it possible!!!!


It's also called experience on the unit. I don't agree it's in a tailspin. That's all. I spend 95% of my time on the unit and see tons and tons of elk. Big bulls too. I guess I just get out my utv more than most. So think what you want. Pass the koolaid cup back to goofy.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> We'll be waiting that long for specific areas that are LE only strictly due to the bigger is better syndrome. How long is the current wait for a general tag?
> 
> In the past 40 years the number of elk hunters afield doubled from roughly 24,000 to 54,000. The elk herd has almost quadrupled in that same span from an estimated 18,000 elk to 68,000.
> 
> Somebody want to explain to me why LE entry even exist and more specifically why it takes so long to draw a LE tag and THEN have a 5 year waiting period?


Muleskinner I'm sure your a good guy. But you need to realize LE is always going to be, and chances are it will get worth. Cut back spike tags and manage spike tags better on units and maybe you'd see more LE tags to shorten the waits , but LE isn't going anywhere.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> It's also called experience on the unit. I don't agree it's in a tailspin. That's all. I spend 95% of my time on the unit and see tons and tons of elk. Big bulls too. I guess I just get out my utv more than most. So think what you want. Pass the koolaid cup back to goofy.


Weird you use personal experience here but can voice your bull**** opinions on a unit you never see.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Muley said I couldn't get 50 guys to go hunting with me. That might not be true.------SS


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

TAK said:


> You must be new around here? It's managed for trophy, lot of inches bulls, the quest of 400 so to say...


Absolutely and those that get offended by those of us that don't like the current system have nothing but money to lose. I have been offended by these blowhards for the past 30+ years. They exist in every state that has hunting. Have to be in a club or group and pay fees, buy their worthless magazine, get a free hat. *Join the fight against wolves only to find that they are funding both sides of that cash cow.* What a freaking joke!


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## a_bow_nut (Feb 25, 2009)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> LE isn't going anywhere.


Really?

Where did it go on the Fillmore Oak Creek and the western side of the Beaver unit?

Maybe it is time to look at switching the Monroe over too.

If it is so hard to maintain good elk numbers there maybe the states money would be better spent elsewhere.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

a_bow_nut said:


> Really?
> 
> Where did it go on the Fillmore Oak Creek and the western side of the Beaver unit?
> 
> ...


Monroe years ago was one of the units set aside as one of the most Prestine units in the state and a higher quality elk hunt was to be held on it.monroe is one of the toughest units to draw in the state. Good luck with that idea.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Monroe years ago was one of the units set aside as one of the most Prestine units in the state and a higher quality elk hunt was to be held on it.monroe is one of the toughest units to draw in the state. Good luck with that idea.


So what gives 1-I, are you going to hunt with us or what. Plenty of time in camp to give a sermon or two. What do you say?------SS


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Muleskinner I'm sure your a good guy. But you need to realize LE is always going to be, and chances are it will get worth. Cut back spike tags and manage spike tags better on units and maybe you'd see more LE tags to shorten the waits , but LE isn't going anywhere.


Yep it will get worse as long as guys are satisfied with it and push for the bigger is better scenario. Our forefathers had another system that worked quite well. Big money then got involved and since cash speaks louder than words the majority of the population suffers for the few. Who has benefited for it? Have you? I highly doubt it..........Yet you are fighting the fight for them right now. Before you respond, sit back and think about it for a while.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> It's also called experience on the unit. I don't agree it's in a tailspin. That's all. I spend 95% of my time on the unit and see tons and tons of elk. Big bulls too. I guess I just get out my utv more than most. So think what you want. Pass the koolaid cup back to goofy.


I too spend a great deal of time on a fraction of the unit.. I don't think the unit on a whole is in dire straits but it is going that way with the continued slaughter of cows from hell to breakfast. If you really spend that much time there then you too can see that there are less and less elk, a trend of the last 3 years. I am not talking about just hunting season. Yet there is butt loads of cow tags? I just don't get it?

I admitt I don't venture much further West than the Waters, or much North of Strawberry. But I can tell you I have seen a "Elk Downturn!!!" and it is because of the cow tags. My guess is anyway.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> So what gives 1-I, are you going to hunt with us or what. Plenty of time in camp to give a sermon or two. What do you say?------SS


Springville will you grow up? Proving that your willing to overrun and over hunt a unit shows how bad of a sportsman you are and how little you care about the units around the state . All you care about is tags no matter what it does to areas.


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## a_bow_nut (Feb 25, 2009)

All of the LE were set aside for this reason. 

Just because they were set up that way doesn't mean that it always works out that way.

That is why you see units being changed around and pulled out of LE status.

How many times have they switched the Bookcliffs?

They also changed the 1000 Lakes unit.

What makes you think that the Monroe is any different?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Yep it will get worse as long as guys are satisfied with it and push for the bigger is better scenario. Our forefathers had another system that worked quite well. Big money then got involved and since cash speaks louder than words the majority of the population suffers for the few. Who has benefited for it? Have you? I highly doubt it..........Yet you are fighting the fight for them right now. Before you respond, sit back and think about it for a while.


To answer your question yes, I don't have to kill everything I see to be happy. Seeing and watching the animals I hunt is great. Over hunting and running them ragged I don't agree with.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

a_bow_nut said:


> All of the LE were set aside for this reason.
> 
> Just because they were set up that way doesn't mean that it always works out that way.
> 
> ...


Simple because very few will ever let it happen.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Absolutely and those that get offended by those of us that don't like the current system have nothing but money to lose. I have been offended by these blowhards for the past 30+ years. They exist in every state that has hunting. Have to be in a club or group and pay fees, buy their worthless magazine, get a free hat. *Join the fight against wolves only to find that they are funding both sides of that cash cow.* What a freaking joke!


I'm not disagreeing with you....


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Watch out TAK it's easy to hurt their feelings and get childish tactics thrown back at you


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> To answer your question yes, I don't have to kill everything I see to be happy. Seeing and watching the animals I hunt is great. Over hunting and running them ragged I don't agree with.


What question did that answer?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I was born in Richfield and I grew up hunting on Monroe. So I understand that it is not what it used to be and I sympathize for 1-I. He is not all ranting and chicken little and something does need to be done.

SFW and the trophy community is not your ally!!!! If you study Rural Sociology to any extent the resource of trophy quality animals will never bring your unit back. The Monroe is the Statewide victim to radical and inconsistent game management practices which has led to its demise. If you analyze its past it has been ravaged by point restrictions, 5 day hunt restrictions, then 3 day hunt restrictions, antlerless tags, and other stupid fly by night attempts at nightmare management.

The elk on the unit are not the largest concern. You have to come to terms that a lot of your winter range is still in recovery from forest fires and the deer do not rebound as quickly as elk because the sagebrush and other browse does not come back as rapidly as the grasses that the elk feed on. As of right now Live Oak Canyon, Poverty Flat, the hills above Annabella, and other winter grounds are in a state of recovery. SFW has taken advantage of the miss fortunate natural events and created a magic show out of your rural community. You feel they have your best interests but if the bulls that are coming out of there are not old enough you are of little worth to them.

Now go back to the good ole days where hunters harvested 4 point bucks and trophies were not the main attraction. Back when there was no Wal-mart to take up all the hunting revenue Richfield was a town that thrived off of hunters from the 801. The deer hunt was a celebrated holiday and hunter orange was the only acceptable color to wear. That money dropped off at your gas stations and Pizza Hut circulated about Richfield instead of a big dollar tag that went to SFW. Let the elk and the deer be managed by the Division of Wildlife instead of SFW managing the Division of Wildlife and all of that will come back. Winter ground will open up and spread the deer apart and keep them from spreading diseases in huge herds and the elk like always will be just fine.

Keep falling for SFW magic shows and you will never get the recipe right. Some new radical idea will come up whether it be 1-I that comes up with it or some other member of SFW.

*Here is the solution:* Draw attention away from the Monroe. Make it a general unit and regulate with consistency. Let the hunters burn their own gas and put the bad taste in their own mouths for the first couple of years and the unit will recover. Its not like all the bucks can get shot out of it. As for the elk... Why does it have to be managed as a trophy bull unit? Keep it limited entry but let people burn their points to hunt 5-6 year old bulls like it is. Keep issuing the antlerless tags and keep utilizing the great resources.

Sevier County has a religious following of gas station/diner conversation hunters that just talk about score/width/antlers. Those hosers are falling into the SFW game and not realizing that it is sucking their communities dry of what they used to be. Let the income transfer from auction tags to general season tags and put the money in the Divisions hands and the biologists will do what's right. 100% of them have an education and they can do their jobs. The SFW guys don't all have educations and they don't manage wildlife they manage money from deep pocketed hunters and willingly take from those with shallow pockets as well....

Spikes can afford to be shot out. So what's your argument?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Nambaster said:


> I was born in Richfield and I grew up hunting on Monroe. So I understand that it is not what it used to be and I sympathize for 1-I. He is not all ranting and chicken little and something does need to be done.
> 
> SFW and the trophy community is not your ally!!!! If you study Rural Sociology to any extent the resource of trophy quality animals will never bring your unit back. The Monroe is the Statewide victim to radical and inconsistent game management practices which has led to its demise. If you analyze its past it has been ravaged by point restrictions, 5 day hunt restrictions, then 3 day hunt restrictions, antlerless tags, and other stupid fly by night attempts at nightmare management.
> 
> ...


10 stars..................made me want to sing the National Anthem.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Nambaster said:


> I was born in Richfield and I grew up hunting on Monroe. So I understand that it is not what it used to be and I sympathize for 1-I. He is not all ranting and chicken little and something does need to be done.
> 
> SFW and the trophy community is not your ally!!!! If you study Rural Sociology to any extent the resource of trophy quality animals will never bring your unit back. The Monroe is the Statewide victim to radical and inconsistent game management practices which has led to its demise. If you analyze its past it has been ravaged by point restrictions, 5 day hunt restrictions, then 3 day hunt restrictions, antlerless tags, and other stupid fly by night attempts at nightmare management.
> 
> ...


I wanted to say this exact thing. The spider bull was probably the worse thing to ever happen to the Monroe. It put it on the map more than it was before.


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## a_bow_nut (Feb 25, 2009)

Finally someone that gets it.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> I was born in Richfield and I grew up hunting on Monroe. So I understand that it is not what it used to be and I sympathize for 1-I. He is not all ranting and chicken little and something does need to be done.
> 
> SFW and the trophy community is not your ally!!!! If you study Rural Sociology to any extent the resource of trophy quality animals will never bring your unit back. The Monroe is the Statewide victim to radical and inconsistent game management practices which has led to its demise. If you analyze its past it has been ravaged by point restrictions, 5 day hunt restrictions, then 3 day hunt restrictions, antlerless tags, and other stupid fly by night attempts at nightmare management.
> 
> ...


You have a great post here. It makes a lot of sense and I agree with you for the most part. I don't agree with anterless tags at all, and spike hunting has it's place, but it is over and under utilized depending on the areas. As for deer the units beginning to recover. I can honestly say I spend enough times on winter ranges that I have watched and counted the same bucks over the last decade. I spend enough time to accuratly count and see daily every buck and doe in the areas . This is why I get tired of people trying to educate me on things I know everything about.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> This is why I get tired of people trying to educate me on things I know everything about.


This just might be the most pig-headed statement that I have ever seen on this forum. --------SS


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

:amen:


Springville Shooter said:


> This just might be the most pig-headed statement that I have ever seen on this forum. --------SS


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

springville, I've closrly watched the unit for a decade. That statement is very bold, and I wouldn't say it unless I felt I'd put in the time and effort to make it true. I've watched about 10 bucks over the last 8 years on the unit. One of those bucks I have watched all 8 years, some for about 4-5. I am up every morning and night from about December to February and guarantee I see every buck within the areas I watch. Nothing new shows up, I can give you an accurate count, and video in areas of the amount of bucks does, bulls and cows. I spend tons of time across the unit, I can honestly tell you it is a shadow in every way from what it used to be. The deer are improving a little but its still not what it could be. The elk have taken a hard hit, and the north end of the mountain during the winter in areas I could once count and view 30-40 bulls now have 2-3 during the winter. The bulls are not such a limiting factor of cows on the unit, or any unit because the bulls live on different levels than the cows. The cows winter mostly down in the brush or foothills, while the bulls winter at much higher elevations where they don't even come close to the cows during the critical survival time. You have to realize I don't throw out these accusations and figures lightly. I give them because maybe you never witnessed such great elk populations, and amazing number of bulls. Maybe you've never sat back and took respect in the animals you hunt and watched them over a 10 year period. You grow great respect watching a big 200" buck make it through 10 hunting seasons, everyone knows about him, but no one can harvest him. Along with all the other bucks and bulls that return from year to year. It's pretty amazing, it's also amazing you can't accept that I do my homework year after year, summer, fall, winter, and spring I am concerned about this. I can honestly telly you, and forget that it's me because you enjoy disagreeing with me just because it's me, I'll honestly tell across the whole unit places you could watch bulls for all winter months have decreased from about 30-40 bulls on ridges to only a few now.

Obviously the unit and others had no problem supporting these bulls and bucks, because over 10 years I watched many of them come back to the same place year, after year, after year, after year. So eluding to the fact that spikes and small bucks are something we need to get rid of for cow and calf survival is asinine. The 30-40 bulls kept coming back until spike hunting and high numbers of LE tags began to decrease the amount of bulls you would see during the winter. I put in so much time and effort you can't even fathom it. So please with all do respect Springville Hunter, I think this thread is very childish, and you're poking your nose somewhere you have no information or experience about. I simply disagree with you because you can't open your eyes and see what's happening. I love hunting the animals too, but a lot of times it's enough for me to sit back and have respect for the animals I hunt, and not have to see them all dead.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

If you would show me that 8 year old buck, I would be glad to come down. How big is he and why is he not on your wall? Also, what do you do for a living that allows you so much time in the field. If you are being truthful, you are one lucky dude. -------SS


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TAK said:


> I too spend a great deal of time on a fraction of the unit.. I don't think the unit on a whole is in dire straits but it is going that way with the continued slaughter of cows from hell to breakfast. If you really spend that much time there then you too can see that there are less and less elk, a trend of the last 3 years. I am not talking about just hunting season. Yet there is butt loads of cow tags? I just don't get it?
> 
> I admitt I don't venture much further West than the Waters, or much North of Strawberry. But I can tell you I have seen a "Elk Downturn!!!" and it is because of the cow tags. My guess is anyway.


My experience is opposite. I spend most if mine on the northern part and strawberry/white river. While the gen season is a joke on the currant creek and avintaquin side I haven't seen too big of downturn in the area i frequent. They sre just smarter and harder to find. I don't hunt cows so can't speak for that. I shot a spike last week and saw a Hal dozen others and had big bulls all over. Granted none were 400" but 330-350" is what I consider quality. Like I said I can't speak to the area you hunt only hearsay.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

> If you would show me that 8 year old buck, I would be glad to come down. How big is he and why is he not on your wall? Also, what do you do for a living that allows you so much time in the field. If you are being truthful, you are one lucky dude. -------SS


I haven't had much time this year, I've been working a lot the past year. But I'll be glad to compile photos or a little video to send you. I have been lucky enough to have time enough and a job lenient enough to enjoy hunting and the opportunities I've had. I started watching this buck as a small framed 5x5 that scored about 130, so he was about 2-3 years old then. I have watched him 7 years since so he's probably closer to 10-11 year old buck. He blossomed into a 220" buck 2 years ago, and went down hill last season. The answer to your question is simple, he's not on my wall because I and no one else can ever find him, I've looked but you get to see him Novemeber-February, and then he's gone until the next season. I honestly don't know if I would shoot him if I saw him I've watched him so long, he's evaded every hunter, every predator, every winter, every season. You grow to have respect for an animal you've watched against all odds show up and pop out a week and half after the rifle hunt as if to say **** all of you, you'll never have me.

Anyway my point is, I'm sure your a great sportsman, but you haven't seen through my eyes the last decade. You haven't watched slaughter, after slaughter, and the effects it's had. Yes there's still plenty left, but its getting further and further away from what it used to be. I don't want to see 3-4 point rag horns as the only bulls one day and 2 point bucks the only bucks your lucky enough to find. The number of mature bucks and bulls in the areas I've watched has declined year after year, the NUMBER, get that, not size of the bulls the NUMBER of bulls in areas I've watched has heavily declined, along with the amount of mature bulls which are almost non-existent in many places over the unit that used to boast 30-40 bulls a winter. I spend season after season, watching areas. I'm not throwing around bogus ideas with no backup information for them. I watch areas year after year, and the same animals from year to year. I've watched areas decrease heavily, in population, number of does and cows in some areas, bulls and bucks in almost every area I watch, and yet there is no problem in some of your opinion. It's very sad to watch 30-40 bulls, turn into 10-15, then 5-10, the 3-4 a year on the exact same area of the mountain, with prime habitat that isn't used because the bulls have all been killed that wintered there. And don't think I don't have the idea, "we'll maybe they are just on a different part of the unit, I've done plenty of looking elsewhere, it's as simple as the unit has declined in the number of bulls and the number of mature bulls, there just not there like they used to be. The unit has a lot of habitat that used to be used well by bulls, now nothing uses it in the winter because the cows winter on the bench and foothills, and the bulls that were once there are gone. The cows and bulls winter and completely different elevations, and there are very few bulls utilizing prime habitat now, because of all the bulls that get taken off,which is also sad to see the habitat's there the animals just aren't.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> My experience is opposite. I spend most if mine on the northern part and strawberry/white river. While the gen season is a joke on the currant creek and avintaquin side I haven't seen too big of downturn in the area i frequent. They sre just smarter and harder to find. I don't hunt cows so can't speak for that. I shot a spike last week and saw a Hal dozen others and had big bulls all over. Granted none were 400" but 330-350" is what I consider quality. Like I said I can't speak to the area you hunt only hearsay.


So what you see as quality I have to see as quality?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

1 eye seriously what's wrong with you? I spend a fair amount of time on the Monroe so you can go suck start your Chevy. I forgive you.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> 1 eye seriously what's wrong with you? I spend a fair amount of time on the Monroe so you can go suck start your Chevy. I forgive you.


What's wrong with you? You have no where near the knowledge or experience ice had there don't pretend you do.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Easy boys, this here is a family friendly site. Your bound to get banned soon.-----SS


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I think 1deer just may have earned himself a timeout.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

All fun and games until someone drops an f-bomb. Guess we will have to adjourn this little discussion for a bit. ------SS


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

In before the lock.:lock1:


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

This may be my only post to this thread so here goes. 

Why does a unit packed full of atv and 4x4 trails have such ridiculous high age objective? :banghead:

Easy access with rifle rut hunts equals cream getting shot out easier resulting in less big bull tags because its hard to get any age when there so easy to shoot. It would make more sense to me too make the dutton a higher age unit and make a unit like the Monroe a 4 year old unit with lots of opportunity. 

Get rid of the spike hunt on that unit and allow three times as many big bull tags as it currently has or make it a general season any bull unit.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> This may be my only post to this thread so here goes.
> 
> Why does a unit packed full of atv and 4x4 trails have such ridiculous high age objective? :banghead:
> 
> ...


No bad idea


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

#1 Deer 1-I is real?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> No bad idea


Do you mean; Not a bad idea.....or No, bad idea?------SS


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Great idea! I vote general any bull.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I am observing a steady increasing trend of elk on the Monroe coming close to objective. http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/annual_reports/11_bg_report.pdf

Page 117 displays a steady increase of elk towards reaching objective. With the increasing trend I see nothing that is currently harming the herd in a detrimental way concerning the harvest of spike bulls.

If I had a herd of 30-40 bulls that I could watch on the winter range I would be ecstatic, however I would not jump to the conclusion that the bulls have been killed off. With the ever growing population of shed hunters and winter participants it is very likely that individuals have not had the same self restraint and respect for the elk on their common winter grounds and have been pushed to other locations due to the popularity of collecting antlers.

One major fallacy that is consistently resurfacing in this thread is that the harvest of spike bull elk leads to the absence of bull elk on the winter range. This has very little validity since just as you have mentioned the cows and calfs winter apart from the bulls. Therefore the spikes have no effect on the bulls on the winter range because they have never been to the upper bull winter range.

Since the spike hunters are not harvesting the bulls on your winter range you must be able to deduce that the correlation between spike hunters and the bulls on your winter range is null. The absence of bulls on the winter range in which you are referring to if indeed harvested as you have stated is entirely caused by the limited entry hunters whose cause you are supporting in an effort to thwart spike hunting.

I am going to tell you again... The spike hunts do not affect the population of the Monroe elk herd. The privatization of trophy hunting directly affects your being as a whole including whatever livelihood you have in Sevier County. I just can't figure out why you are supporting your own demise. There is data showing improvement and you are asking for us to detract from progress.

The clear culprit to the absence of your winter friends are those who are calling the meeting to abolish spike hunting. Hunting yearling males is the purest form of big-game conservation. Extend an invitation to those thugs to come down to your county is like showing up at a car dealership and insisting to pay sticker for a truck.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> This may be my only post to this thread so here goes.
> 
> Why does a unit packed full of atv and 4x4 trails have such ridiculous high age objective? :banghead:
> 
> ...


What do you think about shutting down roads after the summer and archery season. Like other parts of the state..


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

utaharcheryhunter said:


> What do you think about shutting down roads after the summer and archery season. Like other parts of the state..


Idaho has done this in a unit that I hunt to keep it general season. Gates get closed a week before the general every year. I like it. -----SS


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

goodbye #1Deer1-I:ban:


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Nambaster said:


> I am observing a steady increasing trend of elk on the Monroe coming close to objective. http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/annual_reports/11_bg_report.pdf
> 
> Page 117 displays a steady increase of elk towards reaching objective. With the increasing trend I see nothing that is currently harming the herd in a detrimental way concerning the harvest of spike bulls.
> 
> ...


there you go again making valid points. There is no place for that kind of thing here.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> I think 1deer just may have earned himself a timeout.


Moderators must be out hunting....


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

utaharcheryhunter said:


> What do you think about shutting down roads after the summer and archery season. Like other parts of the state..


I don't like it. In utah when gates get put up alot of atv guys seem to think it's there right to drive over and arround them and giving the law abiding riders the finger.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> I don't like it. In utah when gates get put up alot of atv guys seem to think it's there right to drive over and arround them and giving the law abiding riders the finger.


Well I know that works in other states like stated before in Idaho. and I know it works in wyoming. But I do agree with you that us utahns feel like were entitled for some weird reason to break the law because there's a gate or fence in our way. But there are gates that shutdown areas of some general bull areas, and and it seems to do a good job keeping the a_t_v guys out.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

I'll join the Monroe spike hunt as long as there's a meeting with the DWR after dinner! Maybe that's the only way to get a "group" together that doesn't have trophy hunting (or big game hunting in general) high enough on their list of priorities to spend the same amount of time and money as the folks who think they are entitled to run the show for all of us non -"hard core" hunters. Deal?


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> My experience is opposite. I spend most if mine on the northern part and strawberry/white river. While the gen season is a joke on the currant creek and avintaquin side I haven't seen too big of downturn in the area i frequent. They sre just smarter and harder to find. I don't hunt cows so can't speak for that. I shot a spike last week and saw a Hal dozen others and had big bulls all over. Granted none were 400" but 330-350" is what I consider quality. Like I said I can't speak to the area you hunt only hearsay.


Don't get me wrong... Not saying that there are NO ELK, just not what it could and should be. I spent the last 25 years on the Avintaquin and Whiteriver area and although it isn't as bad as it was before it moved to be a spike unit it is to me heading that way. I am not against Cow hunts, but really you think that 1200 tags just on the Avintaquin is smart managment? And I think there was just about the same the year prior? This does not take into account some of the hunt numbers that take in these areas that have a different name like the Anthro/9 mile/Avintaquin hunt.... Did they(whoevery they are) do this down on the fish lake some years back? I remember it because some of the area I hunt got some new faces....


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Wow some people need to get a life. I can't believe there's two threads of first grade name calling and ideas and plans that make many of you look very stupid. This thread in itself is a complete joke. You don't agree with a guys views so you start a thread like this and act like your doing something good for hunting and the game you hunt? I hope very very very very few hunters act like anyone on this thread that are "for " such a 2 year old plan of retaliation. Many of you should be ashamed. I hope very few hunters act or think like most of the idiots on this forum.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

TargetProne said:


> Wow some people need to get a life. I can't believe there's two threads of first grade name calling and ideas and plans that make many of you look very stupid. This thread in itself is a complete joke. You don't agree with a guys views so you start a thread like this and act like your doing something good for hunting and the game you hunt? I hope very very very very few hunters act like anyone on this thread that are "for " such a 2 year old plan of retaliation. Many of you should be ashamed. I hope very few hunters act or think like most of the idiots on this forum.


You'll have to be more specific as to who should be ashamed. The rest of us are talking hunting and planning a trip. I heard there is an 8 year old buck running around. I have never killed an 8 year old deer. If you want to give lectures, please put them in the humor section where they belong. This is the big game section. So, do you want to go hunting or what?-------SS


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> I don't like it. In utah when gates get put up alot of atv guys seem to think it's there right to drive over and arround them and giving the law abiding riders the finger.


This^^^ sad but true.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Here I'll stupify it for you Springville shooter. You are a very childish person who uses mindless tactics to attack people who don't agree with you. Look at this entire thread, read your comments, think about them and grow up. Unless your a child you shouldn't be acting like you are. You should only be allowed to post in the humor section with posts that I've read of yours.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TAK said:


> Don't get me wrong... Not saying that there are NO ELK, just not what it could and should be. I spent the last 25 years on the Avintaquin and Whiteriver area and although it isn't as bad as it was before it moved to be a spike unit it is to me heading that way. I am not against Cow hunts, but really you think that 1200 tags just on the Avintaquin is smart managment? And I think there was just about the same the year prior? This does not take into account some of the hunt numbers that take in these areas that have a different name like the Anthro/9 mile/Avintaquin hunt.... Did they(whoevery they are) do this down on the fish lake some years back? I remember it because some of the area I hunt got some new faces....


Haven't hunted avintaquin since it was limited entry. Cow tags could be cut. I wouldn't even mind seeing the unit split. It's a huge unit. Seems like the elk move from one area to another. White river does good, north bad and vice versa. Seems like it might be the opposite trend. My area is doing well. Granted most of the cow hunters hunt the area you hunt for some reason. At least in my opinion.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> Here I'll stupify it for you Springville shooter. You are a very childish person who uses mindless tactics to attack people who don't agree with you. Look at this entire thread, read your comments, think about them and grow up. Unless your a child you shouldn't be acting like you are. You should only be allowed to post in the humor section with posts that I've read of yours.


Or you could get a sense of humor and see this for what it is. Maybe remove the stick from your rectum??


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

TargetProne said:


> Here I'll stupify it for you Springville shooter. You are a very childish person who uses mindless tactics to attack people who don't agree with you. Look at this entire thread, read your comments, think about them and grow up. Unless your a child you shouldn't be acting like you are. You should only be allowed to post in the humor section with posts that I've read of yours.


Target,
Please review a sampling of my posts, then use deductive reasoning to figure it out. Very seldom do I pick at folks or take part in a little harassment. It takes extenuating circumstances. Sorry if you're offended, now, can we get back to hunting talk? It's deer season tomorrow you know.------SS


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> Target,
> Please review a sampling of my posts, then use deductive reasoning to figure it out. Very seldom do I pick at folks or take part in a little harassment. It takes extenuating circumstances. Sorry if you're offended, now, can we get back to hunting talk? It's deer season tomorrow you know.------SS


I know, but you realize that it degrades your own charachter, makes you look very bad, and to me because of a thread such as this, your opinion has no credibility to me. I hate to even be on a thread like this, where because someone disagreed with you, you take the low blow road of making jokes, and it's not just you, many have done it, and acting childish. It amazes me how this forum is now overrun with people who like to tear apart threads that don't agree with them, and they can't even begin to look at and see the other side of the argument, instead they come up with tactics like this that make them look bad, the forum look bad, their ideas look bad, and just create a stupid atmoshphere where no one can have a converstaion about something because of people like you. Maybe people do know a little more about the areas they hunt, just like you probably know the areas you hunt. I don't know half as much about areas that I don't spend time in compared to areas I do, I think you can agree with that. Because you disagree with someone doesn't give you the right to start threads like this, joking or not. Disagreeing doesn't mean that your side is right, you shouldn't discredit the work, time, and observations put in by fellow outdoorsmen and hunters just like yourself who have every right to voice there opinion. In my opinion this thread should not only be locked, but deleted, it was started as a personal attack towards a forum member for you to a prove a point you don't agree with him. Open your mind a little and stop acting like a bafoon.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Or you could get a sense of humor and see this for what it is. Maybe remove the stick from your rectum??


 A sense of humor has nothing to do with a personal attack on another person. If that's your sense of humor you should take your business elsewhere. It's folks like you who drive the respectable people away from this forum, and have put it in the way it is today. Now it's filled with biologist wanna-be's and people who act like they have the answers and know everything.

I must have missed your joke because I've found no humor in the personal attacks, and rediculous information between this thread and another. If someone makes a point you create a hostile atmosphere and ignore it because you do not want to see the information becasue you don't agree. There's no humor in that. Grow up.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I hope you feel better.....can we move on now?---------SS


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I know of six spikes that were killed on this unit. I knew the quality of bulls would go down because of all the new spike units. Remember I-400? I-400 was a very good proposal and spike tags should only be a management tool and rotated to units when it's needed.

The problem with Utah is we have retards (SFW) managing our elk herds. We started killing a lot of cows to make room for more bulls in the herd. SFW didn't realize until later that Bulls can't get pregnant (retards) so this reduced the recruitment of the herd. *Fewer cows equals fewer calves equals fewer bulls.* They issued management tags and because to many broken antler bulls were shot then SFW cried again. SFW didn't want to issue more bull tags because that would reduce quality so they wanted spike tags to reduce the number of bulls and now spike tags are reducing the quality.

Can't we just say that SFW is clueless, and they don't know how to manage elk?

Everything is the same on the forum Goofy is complain about every unit because the quality of bulls are going down on the Wasatch when the elk are being managed to objective. Goofy why have objectives if you don't want to follow them?

If the Elk quality is down the only people to blame is SFW. They own the problems, but Goofy keeps drinking their koolaid.

Last night Goofy was laying on the Spanish Fork Main Street passed out with a dixie cup in hand with a big pink koolaid stain on his shirt. His wife is going to kill him if she can't get the stain out of his shirt.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> I hope you feel better.....can we move on now?---------SS


Sure we can move one. I hope you understand that you really discredit yourself posting a thread like this though. It looks rediculous. I hope you can pull your head out of your ass and see there are two sides to everything and you may not be on the right side. You profess so much, but then tell of no experience or information that defends many of your claims. You resort to name calling and stupid things like this thread to hide how you've been beaten on an issue, just like many others on this forum. Hands on experience and visual know how, is much more useful and valuable, than the professing of your side, which has nothing basically. You came up with nothing but name calling from what I read through this post and another, you along with others. Step down of your pedistle and realize that things won't always go your way, and you aren't always right. Again what a hogwash, pigpen thread. I hope you feel good for looking like a pupous jackass and a childish name caller.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I think you need to be put on time out Target prone before you blow a gasket.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

blumkin said:


> You sure it's not members like ol 1I that drives respectable people away?


I think that the forum members who come on here every day to discredit others are why respectable people don't visit this forum. You get the same old assholes that if someone disagrees with them, they flip out and resort to childish tactics. I think 1-I has some good points that no one credits simply because of the way he presents them. There are too many of you who sit in their computer chair and act like you've learned so much and know so much. Get off your ass and actually go learn something and get experience with the topics on this forum. Those of you who only look for animals during your hunt, we'll your information isn't very vaild or valuable. Those of you who do the work and gather the information and experience throughout the year have much more valid arguments. Most of what this and the other thread consist of are no valid or valuable information at all. Just a small group that acted with bullying strategies, who really came up with no good points or arguments, they just decided to take the low road and name call.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> I think you need to be put on time out Target prone before you blow a gasket.


 Your post is a nice sight coyoteslayer, at least you gave an actual opinion and did not resort to childish tactics. You won't agree that the threads consisted mostly of this, and that many forum memebers stepped over boundaries?


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

Poor 1eye.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

TargetProne said:


> I think that the forum members who come on here every day to discredit others are why respectable people don't visit this forum. You get the same old assholes that if someone disagrees with them, they flip out and resort to childish tactics. I think 1-I has some good points that no one credits simply because of the way he presents them. There are too many of you who sit in their computer chair and act like you've learned so much and know so much. Get off your ass and actually go learn something and get experience with the topics on this forum. Those of you who only look for animals during your hunt, we'll your information isn't very vaild or valuable. Those of you who do the work and gather the information and experience throughout the year have much more valid arguments. Most of what this and the other thread consist of are no valid or valuable information at all. Just a small group that acted with bullying strategies, who really came up with no good points or arguments, they just decided to take the low road and name call.


Here you continue to chastise me escalating to swearing when I won't engage.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> Here you continue to chastise me escalating to swearing when I won't engage.


Yes, I will voice my opinion on you. You voiced your opinon, resorted to name calling, humorless jokes, and chastising of other forum members. I don't post to often, but when I see such childs play and childish mindsets I hate to see this great forum go even farther down the drain. You engaged in acting like a 2 year old, I imagine you could engage in my converstaion. Are you scared because a grown up is telling you to grow up and get over the fact some people in your life won't agree with you, and sometimes springville shooter, you may be wrong and need to accept that. You should find better tactics than you used here on this thread or the other. Again I shouldn't even include myself in this thread it's so below the level of a good sportsman, but I will let you know how I feel about your childish behavior, sorry if that upsets you. Although 1-I can have his not so bright moments, I do agree with him on the fact that if you bring your attitude and tactics to a RAC meeting or anything where important decisions are made, you might as well stay home, because it won't work there.


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

1 eye suck starting a diesel...


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> A sense of humor has nothing to do with a personal attack on another person. If that's your sense of humor you should take your business elsewhere. It's folks like you who drive the respectable people away from this forum, and have put it in the way it is today. Now it's filled with biologist wanna-be's and people who act like they have the answers and know everything.
> 
> I must have missed your joke because I've found no humor in the personal attacks, and rediculous information between this thread and another. If someone makes a point you create a hostile atmosphere and ignore it because you do not want to see the information becasue you don't agree. There's no humor in that. Grow up.


Again remove the stick from your ass. Lighten up.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Haha I have really missed this forum. Thank you for the laughs.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

blumkin said:


> -BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!--BaHa!-


See forum memebers who can't grow up^^


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Again remove the stick from your ass. Lighten up.


 Remove the childishness from your behavior, and I'll stop asking you to grow up.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> Yes, I will voice my opinion on you. You voiced your opinon, resorted to name calling, humorless jokes, and chastising of other forum members. I don't post to often, but when I see such childs play and childish mindsets I hate to see this great forum go even farther down the drain. You engaged in acting like a 2 year old, I imagine you could engage in my converstaion. Are you scared because a grown up is telling you to grow up and get over the fact some people in your life won't agree with you, and sometimes springville shooter, you may be wrong and need to accept that. You should find better tactics than you used here on this thread or the other. Again I shouldn't even include myself in this thread it's so below the level of a good sportsman, but I will let you know how I feel about your childish behavior, sorry if that upsets you. Although 1-I can have his not so bright moments, I do agree with him on the fact that if you bring your attitude and tactics to a RAC meeting or anything where important decisions are made, you might as well stay home, because it won't work there.


Are you campaigning to be the forum police? No one asked for your opinion yet you dive right in and start doing the things you chastise us about. Hypocrite much?p


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> Remove the childishness from your behavior, and I'll stop asking you to grow up.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Ok, ok.....we get it target, we are all;
Childish
Petty
Non respectable
Ignorant
Name calling
Wanna be
Rude
Hostile
Immature
A-hole
Non sportsman
Forum ruining 
Poo poo heads.

Add whatever I missed to the list and get over it. -------SS


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Are you campaigning to be the forum police? No one asked for your opinion yet you dive right in and start doing the things you chastise us about. Hypocrite much?p


 Nope, and this is a public forum, threads are started for any memeber of the forum to voice their opinion. This is what I mean by none of you being able to except the disagreement of someone. You try to push them out of the conversation because you don't like what they have to say. And your resort to dumb comments like that, which make no sense, and can be torn down very quickly, to try and get rid of them. I'm not a hypocrite, I am here to level the playing field and give you a taste of your own medicine.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> Ok, ok.....we get it target, we are all;
> Childish
> Petty
> Non respectable
> ...


 That sums up the behavior you've potrayed in these last two threads very well. I don't know how you are in the real world. But if you have no better arguments then what you've listed in these two threads, yes those might describe you very well.


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

You're kinda cute when you're mad, TargetPhone.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> Nope, and this is a public forum, threads are started for any *memeber* of the forum to voice their opinion. This is what I mean by none of you being able to except the disagreement of someone. You try to push them out of the conversation because you don't like what they have to say. And your resort to dumb comments like that, which make no sense, and can be torn down very quickly, to try and get rid of them. I'm not a hypocrite, I am here to level the playing field and give you a taste of your own medicine.


Target, I'm not trying to be rude, but this is the second time you spelled "member" wrong. It's not memeber. Maybe it's because you're so pissed off at this forum that you are making spelling errors. You need to relax. You aren't going to tame these fine people. They're good people nonetheless.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> Nope, and this is a public forum, threads are started for any memeber of the forum to voice their opinion. This is what I mean by none of you being able to except the disagreement of someone. You try to push them out of the conversation because you don't like what they have to say. And your resort to dumb comments like that, which make no sense, and can be torn down very quickly, to try and get rid of them. I'm not a hypocrite, I am here to level the playing field and give you a taste of your own medicine.


Oh ok. But you are a hypocrite. Nice spin though.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Oh ok. But you are a hypocrite. Nice spin though.


Sorry if you're taking me as an ******* right now I'm really not. But bring valid points to the table not childish BS. If someone doesn't agree with you try to see the other side or bring points from your side otherwise walk away. There's no need for a thread like this or the name calling and 2 year old behavior exhibited on the other thread.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Target, I'm not trying to be rude, but this is the second time you spelled "member" wrong. It's not memeber. Maybe it's because you're so pissed off at this forum that you are making spelling errors. You need to relax. You aren't going to tame these fine people. They're good people nonetheless.


Thank you coyote slayer and yes my fingers are moving very fast across the keyboard right now.


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## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

fatbass said:


> You're kinda cute when you're mad, TargetPhone.


We don't need even more childish behavior, isn't that what the gutpile is for?


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

Hey, TargetProne and #1deer1eye, does the CWN know you have 2 accounts?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Target, why don't you lead by example and go post something constructive somewhere else? You are beginning to belabor your point.------SS


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

blumkin said:


> Hey fatbass, don't I know you from somewhere?


Your mom does. 8)


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Get to know me.....I'm really not that bad. ------SS


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Sounds really good, apparently there are some good bucks down there too. There was a guy that invited me down, but he is in time out. Long story.------SS


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