# A different kind of deer



## wilcum1977 (Dec 10, 2016)

As the time to put in for permits speedily approaches, I'm trying to come up with a game plan for my hunting goals. Instead of waiting an eternity for a top end tag, I would like to focus more on hunting areas that hold unique genetics. I know the Henries has some crazy awesome management deer. I was wondering if there were any other units, or areas that might hold bucks with similar genetics as the Henry's? Limited or general, I appreciate any advice or ideas that you might be willing to share.


----------



## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

I think Oak Creek has some interesting racks. I think it is a relatively easy archery draw (hard hunt). You'll still wait a while if you want one with a rifle.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

You can find unique bucks on any general unit or LE unit in this state!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

AF CYN said:


> I think Oak Creek has some interesting racks. I think it is a relatively easy archery draw (hard hunt). You'll still wait a while if you want one with a rifle.


Oak Creek takes 9 points to be guaranteed a tag and it's probably one of the lowest success rates in the state.

But you can find different genes within the same mountain range.
For example, the Northern part of the range may grow more heavy, tall racked bucks, while the Southern part may hold more wider bucks with droptines and bigger eyegaurds.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> Oak Creek takes 9 points to be guaranteed a tag and it's probably one of the lowest success rates in the state.
> 
> But you can find different genes within the same mountain range.
> For example, the Northern part of the range may grow more heavy, tall racked bucks, while the Southern part may hold more wider bucks with droptines and bigger eyegaurds.


That's a broad brush! Especially if the bucks get some age

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> That's a broad brush! Especially if the bucks get some age
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Not sure what you mean by that but I have seen certain genetic traits show up over and over again in certain canyons.
For example, the place I'm planning on hunting next year holds bucks with multiple inline tines within their frame. So, hopefully I will be able to find one or two of those type of bucks in that area. I'm not planning on seeing a buck with a droptine because that type of buck as never been seen in that area in over 50 years, according to the locals.


----------



## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Hunting unique genetics in a bucks antler type is pretty scientific if you ask me. I would imagine you could find several genetic antler types in the same canyon if the deer population was big enough. 

I shot a big non typical back in 2008 and then I swear I shot it's son in 2010. He was a little 3x4 but had very similar antler style to my big buck of 08. 

This is an interesting thread but could get nerdy pretty quick if we aren't careful. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


----------



## wilcum1977 (Dec 10, 2016)

Yeah, I'm just looking for someone that could point me towards a specific region or unit that could hold some freaky looking bucks like those from the Henries, but without waiting for the hairs in my ass! to turn grey, if you know what I mean. Don't want or expect anyone to give away top secret info. Just any info from one hunter to another,would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

wilcum1977 said:


> Yeah, I'm just looking for someone that could point me towards a specific region or unit that could hold some freaky looking bucks like those from the Henries, but without waiting for the hairs in my ass! to turn grey, if you know what I mean. Don't want or expect anyone to give away top secret info. Just any info from one hunter to another,would be greatly appreciated.


Like what others have said, any place in the state can produce monsters like the Henries, if the bucks were given a chance to get older and hit their prime like the Henries.

IMHO, the 4 worse units for bucks to become monsters(genetic wise), would be Millard, Juab, Tooele and Box Elder.
All others have a better chance.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I'd say your 4 worst areas are probably some of the best areas in this state. Especially if your talking genitics. 

Oak Creek unit is in one of those areas. Stansbury is in that area
Antelope island is in that area.
Heck the state record nontypical came out of box elder county. 



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Great question! I too am looking for a general season area I can hunt and shoot bucks like they shoot on the Henrys. Feel free to PM the GPS coordinates if you'd like. I don't need your honey hole, just an area that meets the above. Thanks!


----------



## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> I'd say your 4 worst areas are probably some of the best areas in this state. Especially if your talking genitics.
> 
> Oak Creek unit is in one of those areas. Stansbury is in that area
> Antelope island is in that area.
> ...


 What would be the website that we could go see the state records? I had no idea the state record non-typical Being from Box Elder and being from the county I would love to see the buck.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

The genetics are still in that area the buck above was taken because I saw a big non typical above a pig farm near Honeyville about 10 years ago. However deer in that area don't get the age very often to express their genitic potential. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Finding and hunting any "special" buck and then coordinating it with a special LE permit would be difficult in a DIY type hunt. Choosing a good general season area to hunt where you can spend the time to locate said buck and then actually having a reasonably good chance to hunt that area in a timely manor seems to me to be the best way to go. Pick a general area close enough for you to spend the necessary time scouting and leave the LE hunts for the guys that can afford guides and spend the money to buy these permits or time to wait for their chance in the open draw.


----------



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

It seems that most units could potentially hold such beasts, but you need to find the areas in such units that are not heavily hunted.

Perhaps a general unit is not ideal and you should look into some of the CWMU's in those geographic units. 

When we used to hunt the Ogden unit we found that the bigger bucks moved onto a neighboring CWMU pretty quickly once the hunt began. Trick was to catch them opening morning, headed for the border.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Why do you think the Henry mountains has so many big bucks? It's because they manage it for 50 or so bucks per hundred does! The bucks have good utah genitics and are allowed to get some age. Same with antelope island. You think bucks don't have the genitics to grow big in northern utah? You haven't looked at Deseret ranch or ensign ranch then. The genitics are there and they get some age on those ranches. 

The only difference in finding bucks with age on general land is they are managed for 18 bucks to 100 does. Good luck finding one with age and good luck finding an area where someone who has put in some time will give out the coordinates to areas where they do. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Thanks, I have heard about this. But I have never seen a picture before. Right in my backyard.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> I'd say your 4 worst areas are probably some of the best areas in this state. Especially if your talking genitics.
> 
> Oak Creek unit is in one of those areas. Stansbury is in that area
> Antelope island is in that area.
> ...


1)
The Oak Creeks are not even close to the same quality as the Heneries. 
That's why it's not listed as a premium hunt.
2)
Stansburys! Seriously, that must be a joke. They have terrible genetics.
There's a reason I won't be hunting those mountains any time soon. Even with them in my back yard.
3)
Antelope island is in Davis County!8)
4)
Sure the Hunsaker buck was taken over 70 years ago on a small sliver of Box Elder county on the Wellsville's but show me other bucks of that class killed in other parts of the county.


----------



## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Remember SWB there are "Alternative facts" lol :O_D:


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> 1)
> The Oak Creeks are not even close to the same quality as the Heneries.
> That's why it's not listed as a premium hunt.
> 2)
> ...


1. Lol The oak Creek unit isn't managed as a premium unit but it kicks out multiple 200" bucks every year. Just think what it would kick out it it was managed for 50+ bucks per 100 does.

2. Lol about your Stansbury unit and genetics. Heck cedar fort is what 20 air miles away from Stansbury and it had 3 220 plus bucks behind the shooting club. Some how the genetics on camp williams are different then Stansbury? Some how the genetics are different then antelope island which is 35 miles away.

4.







. The genitics are still in the area. I've seen 3 bucks in corrine that look alot like the hyde buck from logan. In the last 10 years.

Fact is there are great genetics in every county in this state where you can find great bucks if they get some age. You just have to pick an area close to home and dig one up.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

If the entire state of Utah were to be managed at 50 bucks per 100 does,

The ENTIRE State would look like the Henry's....:der: .....!


----------



## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

goofy elk said:


> If the entire state of Utah were to be managed at 50 bucks per 100 does,
> 
> The ENTIRE State would look like the Henry's....:der: .....!


If the entire state was managed at 50 bucks per 100 does there would be a lot of worn out does


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Or few deer at all. The fastest way to a high buck to doe ratio is a big ole Doe hunt.


-DallanC


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Or few deer at all. The fastest way to a high buck to doe ratio is a big ole Doe hunt.
> 
> -DallanC


You don't have to kill does to raise buck to doe ratios! Just cut buck tags but that is taking this post in another direction.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

I'll keep it quick, and hopefully not too controversial. Mass, is health X age.

Antlers are genetic only in the sense that they are programmed to a specific pattern(4X4), after that it comes down to epigenetics. Meaning outside influences are what dictate phenotype. This is why you see the same kinds of racks in the same areas over and over again, it is the same outside inputs in those areas influencing the genetics. Things outside of the standard 4X4 can be passed on if written in enough times, but it still requires those outside epigenetic influence to write those changes the first time they show up. And with standard epigenetic influences these will revert to typical over a few generations. The exception here to a large degree is old deer, we should expect more phenotypical variation(mutations) as deer get much older.

Extra points, blunt points, fused points etc: http://westernwildlifeecology.org/antlers/ Just scroll down through the pictures if you don't want to read the details.

This is a good read on the subject as well, but more technical, and not as antler specific: https://deerlab.org/Publ/pdfs/48.pdf


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> 1. Lol The oak Creek unit isn't managed as a premium unit but it kicks out multiple 200" bucks every year. Just think what it would kick out it it was managed for 50+ bucks per 100 does.
> 
> 2. Lol about your Stansbury unit and genetics. Heck cedar fort is what 20 air miles away from Stansbury and it had 3 220 plus bucks behind the shooting club. Some how the genetics on camp williams are different then Stansbury? Some how the genetics are different then antelope island which is 35 miles away.
> 
> ...


-The Oak Creeks have less tags given out than the Henries but far less 200"+ bucks on the unit. The Oaks Creeks are flat out hard to hunt, most guys are having a hard time finding a 170"+ buck on that unit.
-The Vernon also puts out a few 200"+ bucks every year but I would say it also doesn't have good genetics to grow mega-bucks.
- Well, if the Stansburys have as good of genetics as you say it does, it sure doesn't show it.
Probably because the deer on that mountain are not very healthy, many of the bucks I've seen over the years don't get much bigger after 4 years of age.
Some even start to regress after age four.
I can almost guarantee that you won't find 3 200"+ bucks in the same canyon on the Stansburys or on the Vernon and Probably not on the Oak Creeks.
But go ahead and give people false impressions of these areas.
I just know I won't be putting in for any of these areas that you seem to think are so great.:|
Happy hunting.:smile:


----------

