# Why?



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Why isn't the "Utah Waterfowlers For Motorless Access" document posted on this forum?
Only on the refuge forum?
I would just like to read responses from all of the waterfowlers on this forum and see what their opinion is.
I for one am against this proposal in every aspect.


----------



## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> Why isn't the "Utah Waterfowlers For Motorless Access" document posted on this forum?
> Only on the refuge forum?
> I would just like to read responses from all of the waterfowlers on this forum and see what their opinion is.
> I for one am against this proposal in every aspect.


So why haven't you posted it?


----------



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Loke said:


> So why haven't you posted it?


I was rather hoping the gentleman that wrote the proposal would post it up. This way it is in his own words, and no way altered by copying and pasting his work. I just want to see where waterfowlers in Utah stand on this proposal.


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> I for one am against this proposal in every aspect.


the best thing you can do is go to the RAC and let it be known your against it!!! and bring all your fellow waterfowling buddies as well.

the world is ran by those who show up!


----------



## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Probably for the same reason he won't publicly post it for all to read; after the reception the previous motor less proposal generated he knows it's gonna get crammed where the sun don't shine!!! Sounds like they are counting on just presenting it to the RAC without a lot of public knowledge, kind of sounds a little back door to me, but since you asked here's a portion of it & I attached the links to the threads over there.



> Orgianllly Posted by "Paddler" on the refuge forums
> Inaugural Meeting Utah Waterfowlers for Motorless Access
> "When- July 18th, 2009, 8:30-11:00(?)
> Where- Golden Corral, 1624 N Heritage, Layton, Utah
> ...


here's the link to the threads

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=724627

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=726055

Come on out and show YOUR OPOSSION to this proposal.


----------



## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

I have been reading through some of the post's, still trying to understand exactly what is going on. 

First off before I share my opinion, I have hunted on the Wasatch Front maybe five times (not counting the BRBR), and I for one, will never, ever, go back. Nothing against anyone that hunts it, cause I know some do very well, and its close to home that kind of thing. For me..............WAY TO MANY GUYS HUNTING. So I dont really have an opinion on what goes on down that way, 

My waterfowling is based pretty much on hunting extreme northern utah, Box Elder, Bear River, Cache Valley, Rich County and I pretty much totally target geese. My passion is hunting geese over water, out of a Boat with a motor  My family has been in Benson for at least four generations, I have hunted Cutler my whole life and I can say this, Unlimited Motorized Boat access is ONE of the biggest problems as to why Cutler holds no birds anymore. 


7+ years ago, I am willing to bet there were half the boats there are now. Ducks/Geese use to be able to roost on water, feed in fields and both produced birds on a consistant basis. Ten years ago, was the peak of goose hunting in the Cache Valley IMHO. We were able to kill limits of geese day in, day out. If some of you hunted up this way back then, you know what Im talking about. 

NOWDAYS, birds are constantly pushed EVERYWHERE they go, they cant land in a field, water, anyplace but the square ponds or golfcourse without being shot, chased or bothered someway. If there was one thing I learned from the old man about waterfowl its this, "Dont scare birds off the roost". There is no way to keep guys from scaring birds off a roost now days, CUTLER (for one) needs some ROOST areas on water, preferably areas that dont have boats cruising through every hour. 

I hate losing hunting spots, but I for one would give up some of my "boat spots" to start seeing some birds again, At this rate I will never even have the chance to pass goose hunting on.

I know Cutler is not involved in the proposal, but up here, making a few different areas motorless will help give birds a place to rest, without cutting acess completley, and help keep them around for awhile, Its no wonder all the birds are on the golfcourse.

Keep in mind that I understand this is not the only reason birds stay out of cache valley, farming styles have changed, development, sky busting, carp, stuff like that is NOT helping, I just think something like this done right, could help out up here a bunch. 

SORRY FOR THE NOVEL  I for one would love to at least see what he is proposing and not throw it all out the window just yet.


----------



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

making some areas motorless doesn't mean you can't hunt there anymore!! leave the boat at home that day and walk if you want to hunt that area! is it that hard? I know some people are old and some are too young but thats life! thats why some people go big game hunting in remote areas with less access roads and some people go hunting in areas with lots of access roads.


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> I know Cutler is not involved in the proposal, but up here, making a few different areas motorless will help give birds a place to rest, without cutting acess completley, and help keep them around for awhile, Its no wonder all the birds are on the golfcourse.
> 
> Keep in mind that I understand this is not the only reason birds stay out of cache valley, farming styles have changed, development, sky busting, carp, stuff like that is NOT helping, I just think something like this done right, could help out up here a bunch.


yes i agree that cutler needs some type of rest area... but that will take a HUGE push by the waterfowlers up there to petition the power company who ownes the lake to make some regulation changes, and then it has to be enforced... good luck with that!

so the people who use cutler are the very people who create the problem. years ago i imagine that those who were successful were the ones who had a boat and could get around. now more people have boats and well... you see what it is. its a problematic situation in that valley. one reason my hunting is limited in cache valley! I do agree on how mindless it is to blow the roost! many, many, many folks dont understand what an advantage a roost is to you and your success!!!!! the mind set of "hey go bump those birds and then i will get more shooting" is far less successful in the long run as to working the roost properly.


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Im not for it. If it pass then they better was a ten shell limt fro all dike hunting and they better get more fish cops out there with a box for of ticklits books because they better start writing tickits out for the people that shoot ducks and not go after them. The reason the duck hunting has changed is beacuse we are LOSING WETLAND  and the farmers are not growing what the geese want any more.That just me.


----------



## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> I have been reading through some of the post's, still trying to understand exactly what is going on.
> 
> First off before I share my opinion, I have hunted on the Wasatch Front maybe five times (not counting the BRBR), and I for one, will never, ever, go back. Nothing against anyone that hunts it, cause I know some do very well, and its close to home that kind of thing. For me..............WAY TO MANY GUYS HUNTING. So I dont really have an opinion on what goes on down that way,
> 
> ...


 *-band-*

Travis, I think you are EXACTLY correct. It is really too bad there are so few that share your sentiments.


----------



## H20FWLR (Nov 27, 2007)

WHY? That is the QUESTIONS?? The gentleman has put alot of thought into his proposal. He wants everybody to keep an open MIND. I for one have posted on the other forum many of times questioning his motives and actual facts. He has an awnser for all the questions right or wrong. He is having a meeting to all who are intrested in hearing his proposal. And until they actually form a ASSOCIATION and vote ya or na on the whole thing is when he will finalize it and submit it to he RAC council. I for one am against it also. I hunt primarily out of a boat on WMA"S. I think that that the only thing they are trying to accomplish is the NEGITIVE impact that MM have on the wetlands. I thinks he need to have a lot more evidence against them than he has??? The problem I have if they make more areas MOTORLESS it still dosent take the pressure away from the area! He figures that there are 18,000 total waterfowlers in this state. 2000 of them are registred MM. I have no problem making more areas "REST AREAS". But to take AWAY OPPERTUNITY away from Brand A to give to Brand B is unacceptable!!!


----------



## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

I dont get it! Do we really have it that bad? All i have been hearing is that its so bad lately, and complaing about this or that. sure cutler isnt the greatest but last I looked it was a rec lake. and not managed for waterfowl. we have a libral season on us 7 duck limit with a 3 goose limit. you cant expect to go out and shoot a 400 class bull every weekend. thats why its called hunting not shooting. we are geting so wraped up in trying to make it better that soon we will restrict us out of what we have. that old saying comes to mind " cut your nose off spite your face" If you go out and have a not so good a hunt do something diffrent the next time. or go scouting somerwhere else and see what you can find. this year is shapeing up to be one of the best I beleive. make the best of it and have fun.


----------



## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

stuckduck said:


> I dont get it! Do we really have it that bad? All i have been hearing is that its so bad lately, and complaing about this or that. sure cutler isnt the greatest but last I looked it was a rec lake. and not managed for waterfowl. we have a libral season on us 7 duck limit with a 3 goose limit. you cant expect to go out and shoot a 400 class bull every weekend. thats why its called hunting not shooting. we are geting so wraped up in trying to make it better that soon we will restrict us out of what we have. that old saying comes to mind " cut your nose off spite your face" If you go out and have a not so good a hunt do something diffrent the next time. or go scouting somerwhere else and see what you can find. this year is shapeing up to be one of the best I beleive. make the best of it and have fun.


Do we have it so bad, no, in fact I consider myself lucky!! But compared to what it COULD be, or what it was.......we got it pretty bad.

Im glad the guys that started DU, Delta, and all the other guys that work their TAILS off for waterfowl didnt just think "Oh hell, its good enough." :wink:

I for one, most days, could care less about a limit of birds, I just want to SEE birds!! Its not all about a limit of birds for me. The past few years I have had quite a few days afield in Cache Valley that I did not see A BIRD, NOT A DUCK, GOOSE NOTHING! If you would have told me six years ago I would have a day like that I would have NEVER believed you.

I wish there was someway I could take you out five-ten years ago stuck duck, have you witness multiple flocks of 100+ geese landing on top of your decoys with a limit of birds already in the blind, just takin it all in, to what it is now, believe me bud, you would be just as upset as I am. A lot of guys call BS, _In UTAH??_ believe me boys, it happened A LOT.

You can have the liberal limit's, seasons and all the access in the world, I'll take a one goose limit and a five mile hike through mud with a pack full of decoys if at least I can see some more birds.

Dont get me wrong, I still find and kill my fair share of birds :twisted: and I know a lot of you do as well, It can be done, it just could be a whole lot better to see a sky full of birds.


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

stuckduck said:


> Do we really have it that bad?


No it not bad at all. Im happy with what we got. Yes it can be wores where we have to stop hunting by 12 every day and only have a five mallard limt and one other duck.



> to see a sky full of birds.


we can see that if we STOP LOSING WETLAND FOR MORE DAM BUILDING AND HIGHWAY 

For not seeing a Duck or a goose in the sky. I have seen that in the pass many times. Even was I was just starting to go with my dad 20+ years ago. It sucks not seeing any birds.It nice going out there sharing a blind with a good friends and family out there. I would not trade it for anything in the world to sit out there in a snow storm freezeing my butt off to hang out with friends and family and shoot the bull ****. We got it pretty good in my eyes. Now if we can stop them for taking our wet land away get ride of this frag. Right now that a bigger proublom then this closing place to MM.That just me.


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> stuckduck said:
> 
> 
> > I dont get it! Do we really have it that bad? All i have been hearing is that its so bad lately, and complaing about this or that. sure cutler isnt the greatest but last I looked it was a rec lake. and not managed for waterfowl. we have a libral season on us 7 duck limit with a 3 goose limit. you cant expect to go out and shoot a 400 class bull every weekend. thats why its called hunting not shooting. we are geting so wraped up in trying to make it better that soon we will restrict us out of what we have. that old saying comes to mind " cut your nose off spite your face" If you go out and have a not so good a hunt do something diffrent the next time. or go scouting somerwhere else and see what you can find. this year is shapeing up to be one of the best I beleive. make the best of it and have fun.
> ...


i think your talking about two different things. for one utah doesnt see the migration of geese like it used to years ago. i personally believe we are seeing or experiencing a migration change or evolution. no i dont have scientific data to back up my theory, however utah back in the 60-70's used to see HUGE migrations of snow geese in the fall. Howell valley used to be loaded with them like no other. i have talked with folks who back in the 60-70's's shoot the living crap out of all kinds of geese, white and dark. but it seems as years go by most of the geese dont even migrate through. it seems that alot of the geese that are shot here are local geese. just look at the banding data. its a very complex situation with the geese here in utah. to prove this, just ask the folks who have been lucky enough to harvest goose bands here in utah and see how many of them are local banded birds. my bet is its upwards of 85% are local bands. you want to behold a good site, travel up to the snake river valley in idaho as im sure you hunt that way and see the amount of birds that just hold up and stick around up there. ive also heard the talk about how alot of geese hit that river valley work their way south west and then work their way into california and completely avoid utah and its marshes all together.

i agree seeing more birds would be fantastic, but when it comes to geese the numbers are surely going in a different direction as compared to ducks!


----------



## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Kingfish,

Your right, geese have changed their migration pattern, it is my belief, though it is mostly based on hunting pressure. As you said earlier though as well, If there is one thing that gets a flock of geese out of dodge, its getting hurassed WHEREVER they go. 

Another thing to consider is when hunting season starts in Utah, local geese also migrate NORTH :shock: . If you know anyone that hunts a lot of geese in the Pocatello, American Falls area ask where the bands are coming from, Most from Utah, the same year. A good friend of mine shot four birds banded spring of 2007 in Cache Valley on American Falls res. in the fall of 2007. To me, this is a little strange. 

Its wierd, any given day you can see hundreds of geese in Cache Valley until the hunt starts, then like clockwork, they are all gone till the day it closes, and wouldnt you know it there are thousands around until about May. They migrate through here my friend, just not during hunting season for one reason, pressure. If anyone questions this, take a ride through amalga, benson, cache junction in Feb-Mar, or hell even a week after it closes. You will wonder if your in Canada!! Field after Field with birds in it. IF they DIDNT migrate through Cache Valley anymore you wouldnt see this. I do believe, like you say, that it has slowed down in some ways, even in the off season for some other reasons.

Those flocks everyone sees during season twelve miles high with two hundred plus geese in them USE to stay in the cache valley, now they will stop in one field, stay maybe one night, get hurassed and the next morning they are GONE!! One week after hunting season, I am happy to take anyone around and show them bird after bird, I have watched this for three years now like clock-work. They arent just getting lucky showing up a week after the season ends, its PRESSURE.


----------



## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

I think all the guys talking about shooting limits of geese every day years ago shot all the stupid geese and now your left with a highly intelligent strain of geese that know when to get the heck out of dodge! Survival of the fittest at its best! I for one have seen less greenwing teal than i did 20 years ago but never ever have a hard time finding ducks, whether i am in my mm, layout, or walking but then again i hunt day in and day out for the past 20 years and know where the birds are. Not saying im a great hunter but if they are not in area b they are in area d. Drought does play a part where the ducks will be beleive it or not! Thank God this year will be the year of the sego!!! Cant wait to see a few of you out there in a few months!


DiverFreak


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

diverfreak said:


> Thank God this year will be the year of the sego!!! Cant wait to see a few of you out there in a few months!
> 
> DiverFreak


amen on the sego!!! amen on seeing out there!!!!!!!


----------



## mtstubfr (Apr 1, 2009)

Stuckduck, dont you have a vote on the UWA board. how would you vote? what would be your basis for your vote? haven't you only been hunting for only a couple years? so how the hell can you even know what you are talking about! as for your beloved UWA, answer me this what have they done for the average waterfowler? if you ask me it is an organization of airboaters, MM and club's. maybe if you guys got rid of the airboaters,MM and clubs some people might start taking you guys serious. because as of now the average joe just see this organization as a bunch of guys that are watching out for their motors and clubs and screw the average waterfowler. what if Delta and DU took this approach the probably would not have millions of members. as for UWA getting two members on the RAC smells a little fishy to me an organization of under 300 members gets two people with say on the RAC. which on of them represents the north clubs which every one was up in arms about what his family member was doing about house bill 187. so until the UWA does some thing that does not involve being a motor lobby. I would dare to say the average guy wont take them or you serious.


----------



## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

So, I guess we'll see some of you at breakfast?


----------



## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

mtstubfr said:


> Stuckduck, dont you have a vote on the UWA board. how would you vote? what would be your basis for your vote? haven't you only been hunting for only a couple years? so how the hell can you even know what you are talking about! as for your beloved UWA, answer me this what have they done for the average waterfowler? if you ask me it is an organization of airboaters, MM and club's. maybe if you guys got rid of the airboaters,MM and clubs some people might start taking you guys serious. because as of now the average joe just see this organization as a bunch of guys that are watching out for their motors and clubs and screw the average waterfowler. what if Delta and DU took this approach the probably would not have millions of members. as for UWA getting two members on the RAC smells a little fishy to me an organization of under 300 members gets two people with say on the RAC. which on of them represents the north clubs which every one was up in arms about what his family member was doing about house bill 187. so until the UWA does some thing that does not involve being a motor lobby. I would dare to say the average guy wont take them or you serious.


you again :roll: all the crap you sling on the refuge fourms and now your starting it here. do a little reserch on Delta and DU and see how much money gets spent on clubs and the privet sector. The UWA is a great thing and are truely behind the waterfowler. I havent seen you at ANY meetings so once again you sit behind your computer and sling mud. And belive it or not I have been hunting ducks for some time now. Started when I was 14 and now im 32 so you do the math. So it goes to show that once again your info is WRONG. I will tell you this IM ALL ABOUT people being in the marsh and having a great time however they enjoy it. and how ever they access the marsh. The UWA has been on the for front to FIGHT the GSL Minrel expansion Did you show up? Im not going to play a game of mouse traps with you. those that know the indivdualls that are on the rack are stand up guys. go ahead and make you asumptions, start your name calling and whatever else it is that you do!


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

stuckduck said:


> And belive it or not I have been hunting ducks for some time now. Started when I was 14 and now im 32 so you do the math.


let me help you in your mistake. we started when we were 12 kevin. :mrgreen:


----------



## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Just a FYI: The UWA has 13 board members that not only represent every credible waterfowl organization in the state, but the board has regional representatives from Utah County, Box Elder County and Cache County. There are board members that represent the south shore duck clubs and the north shore duck clubs as well. And, because the anti-motor guys' proposal will not be passed, the UWA board members will not need to speak to the RAC or the DWR about this. The premise that a few rest areas or motorless areas are beneficial to the waterfowlers of Utah is not a bad idea, but coming out with a proposal without discussing alternatives and compromises seems like a poison pill.
R


----------



## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Another FYI for the fellow that said the UWA does nothing for Utah's waterfowlers:

This summer, representatives of the UWA have had numerous meetings and discussions with state agencies and representatives about topics that affect us as waterfowlers.

We have met with the State Div of Soveriegn Lands: They have agreed to compose an action plan for invasive plant species on the GSL wetlands by the end of the year. This may not seem like a big deal, but consider that the FFSL has done NOTHING to protect the marshes of the GSL in the past. This is a great leap forward and it is good to see the FFSL make some forward movement on an issue that affects the majority of the lake's marshes.

We have met with the DWR and the FFSL in a meeting to discuss improved fire plans to control phrag.

We have met with the Army Corps of Engineers as well as GSL Minerals officials to discuss the impacts of losing 8000 acres in Bear River Bay to industrial expansion.

We have met with the Division of Water Quality to discuss the impact of the upcoming large increases of Selenium discharges from Kennecot mines into the GSL. This is nasty stuff and it affects waterfowl directly (and waterfowlers).

We have worked closely with the attorneys representing the Friends of the Great Salt Lake to protect the waterfowler's interests in any litigation that may occur as a result of the GSL Minerals expansion.

We will be hosting the upcoming Youth Fair at Farmington Bay in September.

We have failed to provide a website that keeps everyone up to date with all that the UWA is trying to do for Utah's waterfowlers...but it will be working properly very soon. Sorry 
about that.

We are currently looking at the permit applicatiob for a new landfill on the boundry of Ogden Bay. If they can't guarantee protection of waterfowl, we will start a public action to protect our wetlands and birds.

*This is just this summer.* We have some phrag control issues we are working on too. I'm sure that there are some things I neglected to mention and I hope that some of the other UWA board members will pipe up about various items of importance. 
R


----------



## mtstubfr (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like the UWA has been busy doing things for people that have boats. read my comment you ignorant ass. what has the UWA done for or going to do for the average waterfowler? the industrial expansion does closes the promontory airboat launch big deal! if you have a secret way to walk in let me know would you? if not answer the question. tell me what are they going to do for the average waterfowler? that works his tail off all week and can not afford an airboat and wants to shoot some ducks. :?:


----------



## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

mtstubfr said:


> Sounds like the UWA has been busy doing things for people that have boats. read my comment you ignorant ass. what has the UWA done for or going to do for the average waterfowler? the industrial expansion does closes the promontory airboat launch big deal! if you have a secret way to walk in let me know would you? if not answer the question. tell me what are they going to do for the average waterfowler? that works his tail off all week and can not afford an airboat and wants to shoot some ducks. :?:


Since you supposedly live in Idaho why do you care???? Or are you jacking the Refuge's "mtstubfr"'s screen name to use here? Seems I jumped on a guy using that handle a while back and he admitted to me that he wasn't the same guy; he was just using the name to stir the pot.

It doesn't really matter who you are because your behavior is unacceptable, so as I so often tell you over there, if you can't say anything nicely CYAO.


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

mtstubfr said:


> Sounds like the UWA has been busy doing things for people that have boats. read my comment you ignorant ass. what has the UWA done for or going to do for the average waterfowler? the industrial expansion does closes the promontory airboat launch big deal! if you have a secret way to walk in let me know would you? if not answer the question. tell me what are they going to do for the average waterfowler? that works his tail off all week and can not afford an airboat and wants to shoot some ducks. :?:


hey masturbator, what the hell??? the average joe hunter is everyone that hunts publicly!!! i work my fingers to the bone like the rest of us so i can enjoy a weekend shoot. sometime i take a day of to do it in the week. its guys like you that kick and scream from the side line that are as worthless as two **** on a boar. here you have many folks getting involved and you sit back and want your feet scratched. i dont see you out in the trenches trying to make it better for all. no! you just sit in the peanut gallery that throw popcorn in the air.


----------



## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I have a question. What does CYAO mean? I'm not up on my personal insult acronyms.


----------



## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> I have a question. What does CYAO mean? I'm not up on my personal insult acronyms.


It's not really an insult, its more of a suggestion. :wink:

It's a southern phrase that is short for "CARRY YOUR A** ON!!!!! in his case to somewhere else.


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

mtstubfr said:


> you ignorant ass. what has the UWA done for or going to do for the average waterfowler?


another thing is... a lot of what has been going on is to help the ducks and huge loss of habitat! wow imagine that an organization doing more than just taking. think out side of yourself and you may see the big picture!!!!

to me it sounds like you sir, are the ignorant ass! but thats just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions........


----------



## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

So, who's who over here? rjefre is the same, it sounds like kingfish is RMK800?


----------



## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

That MTSTUBFR guy seems to have some anger issues that he will need to work out with himself...


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

rjefre said:


> That MTSTUBFR guy seems to have some anger issues that he will need to work out with himself...


i think there is more to the mtstubfr than meets the eye... i think he is someone trying to get us all riled up! every post he has made, here and the refuge is intended to cause just that. i have a hunch who he is...


----------



## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

Back to the topic. I am against anything that restricts any group of hunters. I think our sport and passion needs ALL waterfowlers to stand together and work as a team. We need to fight to help control the frag, we need to fight to keep waterfowl habitat from bring lost to commercial companies. 

If there really are 20000 waterfowlers in the state, why do only the few show up for public meetings and frag control events or banding events, issues we ALL need to be involvled in?


----------



## berettaboys (Sep 21, 2007)

Maybe I don’t understand the question fully. But it seems to me that it’s on if unit two should become motor less or not. I am just going to through this out there and instead of making unit two motor less, maybe make it a 10 boat limit out there. First come first serve basis, and make it so it is illegal to spend the night out there, because I could see some people wanting there spot out there so bad that they would be willing to do such.
unit two is the turpin unit correct? :?: 
I don’t know, I have went back to foot soldiering as it has gotten out of control with the number of boats in the past 5 years. when there is 40 plus boat trailers in the parking lot on a saturday morning in a place where i though 10 or 12 boats was cramping the unit 8 years ago. i think something needs to be done with that unit.
So I don’t feel that we need to do away with boats all together in that section, but I think if you could limit the number down it would help tremendously. 
My two cents Berettaboy


----------



## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> So, who's who over here? rjefre is the same, it sounds like kingfish is RMK800?


I'm use the same name on all the forums, I have a big set, no need to hide behind mutiple screen names for me.

kingfish uses the same name here as the refuge forums. If fact most of the regulars use the same name for most of forums.


----------



## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

No, the Turpin is not Unit 2. Unit 2 has 326 acres, the Turpin 1200. The proposal is a comprehensive one that recommends adding a motorless area to Salt Creek, Ogden Bay and FB. It is intended to provide the motorless hunter, which includes more than 70% of Utah waterfowlers, a place to go where he won't have to compete with MM. The proposal is in PDF now, and will be broadly released after I send it to the RAC chairmen.

If anyone is interested in joining our group or supporting the proposal, PM me.


----------



## berettaboys (Sep 21, 2007)

thank you. i was under the wrong impression then.
kinda sounds like a good idea to me.


----------



## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

paddler213 said:


> No, the Turpin is not Unit 2. Unit 2 has 326 acres, the Turpin 1200. The proposal is a comprehensive one that recommends adding a motorless area to Salt Creek, Ogden Bay and FB. It is intended to provide the motorless hunter, which includes more than 70% of Utah waterfowlers, a place to go where he won't have to compete with MM. The proposal is in PDF now, and will be broadly released after I send it to the RAC chairmen.
> 
> If anyone is interested in joining our group or supporting the proposal, PM me.


30/70 sounds like a crock to me. Your making waterfowl into a competition, i.e COMPETE. I do just fine on any wma any day of the week with or with out a mucd motor. Next it will be the coffin hunter, the field hunter, the pass shooter the jump shooter. It has to stop somewhere and i suggest right here with this proposal. If Fb has 20 boats then go somewhere else that doesnt or walk an hour further. Yes i have a mm but only have had it 2 seasons and paddled a layout for 8 years prior so i can understand what paddler says but cant compute! You like your paddle boat, good for you, maybe we need a blackpowder only unit or a archery tackle only unit how about a left handed shooter only UNIT etc etc. Tom Aldrich has things under control and think we have it better than any other state! Keep rocking the boat and it might end up like Califonia and everyone will be screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 357bob (Sep 30, 2007)

The problem with the 70 % number is that it may be the amount of moterless hunters, not hunters who hunt moterless. Or primarily moterless, not completely or against it. I myself am technically motorless but hunt 95 percent of the time with the one parked in my drive way. It does not legally belong to me, but that does not make me a motorless hunter. It's sometimes too easy to skew the stats in your favor. :|


----------



## duckmaster (Nov 2, 2008)

Here we go again. I have to agree with Diverfreak and others about making more restrictions. To all the complainers about the boaters and no walkin areas. Salt Creek has a rest area and there are plenty of areas that the boaters don't have access. Odgen bay has two boat areas and plenty of room to walk or paddle. Farmington Bay has the rest pond, two boat areas and several walkin impoundments. Layton Marsh is totally walkin; Public Shooting Grounds has boating and boatless areas; Timpie Springs is walkin; Fish Springs is totally motorless. Howard Slough for the most part is walkin or paddle in. So what is the problem?????


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

duckmaster said:


> So what is the problem?????


That enough place for the foot solders.The funny thing is.If they did gave more place for you to hike in at like Farmington bay Ogden bay so on. they won't get used any was.every one will still stay on the dikes and sky bust like crazy and still bitch that they ant getting ducks because they are sitting out in the middle of the pond and not moving.It a never ending bitching.


----------



## berettaboys (Sep 21, 2007)

not all foot soldiers stay on the dike. some like to walk 3-5 miles and kill ducks in the decoys, without being by or near sky busting idiots.


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

berettaboys said:


> not all foot soldiers stay on the dike. some like to walk 3-5 miles and kill ducks in the decoys, without being by or near sky busting idiots.


I'm not saying all foot solders are on the dike hunting. 95% are on the dikes and they are the ones that are bitching.


----------



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I see just as many boaters sky busting as I do dike hunters.... stupid people everywhere,, doesn't matter if its in a boat or on the dike. Thats why I hike to the middle of BFE,,get away from everyone.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I live a great deal further south than most of you guys who have various interests for various reasons in the northern marshes, but there has to be a happy medium for everyone even though no one appears to be certain of what that is.

There aren't any huge marshes down here, but there is still a lot of pressure from a lot of hunters just the same. Waterfowl hunting in Utah is about the only hunt left that there are more or at least the same amount of hunters every year rather than fewer. For the most part, this is good thing since hunting as a whole is declining to a dangerous/critical point for sportmen in general.

I understand the pressure issue that guys put on some different areas and the issues it creates. Guys around here cant stand to see birds resting anywhere and will do just about anything to get them up flying. They've got such a *ard *n to push and kill birds they blow out the whole valley of birds in a very short time and wonder where they all went and why. 
Some folks understand the big picture and some dont because of their greediness, learning curve or whatever. Balance is very important. It would be nice if it were to stay in balance naturally but with less and less habitat and more and more pressure, this is difficult if not impossible......The dangerous part in keeping balance is keeping ourselves in check and hope that we all take heed in that we have to be careful in what we wish for and hope its not too little or too much. 
Hopefully, like I said, hunters can come to a realization and understanding about pressure and hunting and find a solution and common ground that will please all for the entire state and not just the northern marshes. Good luck to us all as luck may be all thats left and also the deciding factor in good or bad of taking pressure off the marshes.


----------

