# What to look for



## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Well FINALLY got the ok from the wife to get a Lab to hunt with. I'd like to get a decent one I can hunt upland and waterfowl with. What would you professionals recomend I look for in a pup. Any recomendations appreciated.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> Well FINALLY got the ok from the wife to get a Lab to hunt with. I'd like to get a decent one I can hunt upland and waterfowl with.* What would you professionals recomend I look for in a pup*. Any recomendations appreciated.


A cute black one.... :|


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Here are a couple of litters that fit the bill. I don't offer money back because I'm not the breeder, but I guarantee these dogs will hunt if you put the work in with them:
http://utahbirddogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5198&sid=e32b5a0b06e5fce0f1dd35cc6ee4f96c

http://utahbirddogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5579&sid=829c65e25fb9043e75b8932126404b3b

*PS- Once you go black, you'll never go back.* 8)

It looks like Allen Dustin in Lehi has a litter right now as well. His dogs are good hunters for those who prefer the chocolate color.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=7869537&cat=105&lpid=


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks .45 my wife agrees thats very important!

Birddogger- I've been watching those pups on ksl. Unfortunately they are more than we can afford. It sounds like we'll be taking a black lab from a friend. It hasn't been hunted or really worked with in over a year. Where should I start? She has hunted in the past and done well. How do I get her back in it?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

My experience with them is that some just have it and some don't especially with the ones that are not pups. But, I think you would start the same way as a pup to evaluate what the strengths and weaknesses are.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Where should I start? She has hunted in the past and done well. How do I get her back in it?


Huge is right. Just go right back to square one and start with the puppy work. Hopefully the dog had enough exposure to birds and guns to remember how fun those things are. Where do you start? Throw a tennis ball and see how she responds. Throw a pigeon and see how she responds. Bond with the dog like she's a puppy. Do everything assuming the dog hasn't been trained. A dog that hasn't been hunted or even worked with in over a year is going to need lots of work.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Well been trying to get her to fetch balls, dummies, anything I can think of, no dice. How do you get them interested? Any suggestions? Got her a dummie the first couple times I threw it she went after it but didnt pick it up. Now she wont even go after it. Think its cuz she's still adjusting to the new place?


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> Well been trying to get her to fetch balls, dummies, anything I can think of, no dice. How do you get them interested? Any suggestions? Got her a dummie the first couple times I threw it she went after it but didnt pick it up. Now she wont even go after it. Think its cuz she's still adjusting to the new place?


How old? I have had many of dog, and one thing I have learned is not every dog wants to fetch a ball, stick or dummy. DO yourself a favor, find you some live birds on KSL or someplace and put her on them. Bird farms are great to start dogs on and even hunt. But I would go and buy a couple of hens. Ask for them in a bag and set one of them yourself, in a place you know just were it is and you can make sure the dog is going to run into it! If she don't find it, make her find it!!!!!! See what reaction she has with it. Don't shoot it! I guess I forgot to add... make so it can't fly or run very fast... Let the dog have its way and say NOTHING!!!!!! Then if she wants to bring it back to ya, praise her to death and make it feel to her as she just came up with a cure to Cancer! Do the same with the other bird(s).
What you want here is a bird that can not really get away from her, but does have lots of life and try like hell to get away, but she can catch. This is going to build some drive in her. Once she is bird crazy and all, put her on a check cord and when she catchs the birds, reel her back in with the CC......


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah, what TAK said. I will say one thing and I don't want to offend anyone here so please don't take it wrong. A Labrador *Retriever* that won't retrieve hasn't been worked with. I know you said your friend hunted her some in the beginning or something, but this dog does not have even the basic fetch a ball down. Now TAK is a really good dog man and he knows that birds will spark that DNA driven desire to hunt. The thing is, a Labrador should have the retrieve down from 5 or 6 weeks of age. It's what they're bred for. This is what they do. Labs are not technically born to "hunt". They are born to fetch. Your dog has a looooong ways to go. I think birds are the only possible solution. A pair of your socks with scent on them sent down the hallway might work too.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks a million guys. I'm making a little progress with her, got her to fetch a dummie about 5 times in a row. I started by just forcing the dummie in her mouth then praised the heck out of her for holding it. After a couple minutes of that she would carry it around following me around the yard. Praised the heck out of her again and kept doing it over and over. She started to act a lot more "into it". Stopped after she started willingly taking it from my hand. Went back in the house let her lay around outside and left her alone. Went back out 2 hours later and did it again. This time it went quicker. I kinda just played tug of war with her a little and she actually started wanting to keep it. I got her to "give" it to me and threw it about 5 feet she ran over and brought it back I was thrilled praised the heck out of her. I was HAPPY. Got her to do it about 5 times in a row and figured I'd stop before I lost her interest. Now where can I get some birds in Southern Utah County? Also how do you prevent them from being able to fly? Thanks a million guys I'm really getting pumped now. I was a little discouraged there for a while but got a glimmer of hope now.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Just pull some flight feathers from the wings. If you don't pull enough of them out, you'll know it because you'll see the bird flying away.  I'd start with pigeons just because they're not too intimidating. Plant a few in the yard in some places and let her find them. Don't take them away immediately as she finds them. Let her mouth them and play with them for awhile. Look on KSL for birds or go ask a farmer if you can net some at night out of his hay barn or loft. Then do like TAK says and maybe get her on some pheasants or quail or chukars if you can. The good thing about a Lab is it doesn't matter if the dog catches the birds. You want her to actually think she has a chance of catching them so she'll become a hard flusher.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Right on the flight feathers are the longer ones at the end of the wing if I remember correctly. Looking on ksl looks like theres a guy in Spanish Fork selling pigeons. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Right on the flight feathers are the longer ones at the end of the wing if I remember correctly.


You remember correctly. The long outer feathers are the primary flight feathers required for thrust. The middle group of feathers are called secondary feathers and those provide an airfoil and are thus needed for flight also. I remove some of each type of feather. The smaller feathers closest to the body on the wing are called tertials and are not flight feathers. Remove the feathers and drop them where you plant the bird and you'll provide a nice scent cone for your dog.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Well, she's doing awesome retrieving the dummie now. I'm really happy with her. Gonna try and get some pigeons today to start working her on them. Thanks for help. Are there any special tricks for water retrieves? I'm thinking of taking her down to the lake maybe this weekend if she keeps doing as good as she is.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Just takes time man. Get that dog on birds and let her learn she is the king chit! Bad habbits can be formed, but they can also be taken right back out. The key to training is not to form any bad habits(still working at that!) But rest assured with age and maturity they all work themselves out. 
Remember also that if you get 1 or more good retrieves from her stop at that really good one! Even if it is a single time. Most young dogs I have worked with take about 10-20 minutes of training until there eyes bug out! 
Be this dogs friend, dogs are loyal! In time she will outthink you and do it because she nows just how happy she makes you! Unless she is a male GSP named Blue and loves the beatings!!!!!

PETA... That was a joke!


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Tricks for water retrieves? 
Some guys get the waders out or put on shorts and get right in the water with the dog at first. Most Labs are like ducks once they get a taste of the water. It's warm enough right now that I'd get her in the water ASAP before winter comes and you'll avoid any cold water scares. If you can get her bird crazy just toss a pigeon into the water, close to shore at first, and she'll likely jump right in after it.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> PS- Once you go black, you'll never go back.


That's what she said...


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

I was going to suggest that you just spend some time making friends with the dog, but it seems like that is what you ended up doing anyway. Many dogs will not hunt for strangers, or even friends that they do not associate with hunting. Retrieving/fetch, is related to hunting in their DNA and she might not have associated her change of environment with an opportunity to return to fetching or hunting. Some dogs don't react well to changes in their family and will take some time to adjust to the idea that YOU are now her family and that she can both trust you and have fun with you. Seems like you got that started pretty good already. :mrgreen: 

Now that you have taken the steps to get her interested in having fun with you in general and playing fetch with you in particular, it should not be much of a stretch to get her doing water retrieves and hunting soon after. RARE is the Lab that doesn't like and enjoy water. 

My silly dog loves the water so much that he goes and finds the nearest open water and gets himself soaked even if it is 15 degrees outside. And 4AM to boot. :shock:

If she has previous experience in actual hunting and that isn't just some story that your friend told you to get her off his hands, then it will all come back to her as soon as she realiizes that YOU are now her source for that activity. Once you are her best friend and playmate, then she will hunt for you if she will hunt at all.
It might even be a good idea to take her down to the WEST shore of Utah Lake and take the shotgun with you. Get her distracted with a game of water fetch and have your wife fire a round down the shore a little ways, see how she reacts. If she has been hunted, it is likely that she will go on alert and stare out over the lake waiting for the splash of the falling bird. As long as she doesn't head for the county line, she should be good to go. Move the shotgun closer and repeat, if she alerts, then go to throwing the ball or dummy at the shot and she will be retrieving like a champ in no time. You have just about enough time before opening weekend to make sure that she associates gunfire with fun, and isn't going to disappear into thin air when the gun goes off.
Good luck man, and hope to see you in the marsh.


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

Glad you getting some progress. I was going to pass along another suggestion for planting birds. Take an old sock and cut a hole down by the toe for the birds head. Insert bird and tie end of sock. Maybe some liquid bird sent on sock might help out as well.....

Good luck.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Hey guy's, just wanted to keep u up to date. We seem to have found her drive. She is doing really good retrieving. I attached a pheasant wing to her dummie. Now she really wants the dummie. Took her out through my alfalfa field with the 22 revolver waited for her to get looking then shot and chucked the dummie. It was awesome she'd stop perk up her head and ears find the falling dummie then lock on it. She made some beautiful retrieves. Took her down to the lake, we'll be working on the water retrieves now. Thanks for all you guys help. You guys rock!!!


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