# DPMS Oracle 223?



## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Anyone have one of these or know much about them? Have a friend with a couple for sale and am thinking of selling an old SKS I have and getting one. I would like an AR type rifle to dink around with but don't want to spend a bunch of money. Thanks for any feedback you can share.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I've got two, they work great. No frills, but accuracy and functionality have been flawless.---------SS


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

I’ve had two AR’s that were essentially DPMS Oracles (both were on AFM stripped lowers and one had a Rock River trigger). They are just fine, I shot the one with the better trigger for quite a while before it got caught up in a trade of some sort.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

The Oracle is an entry-level AR15. The AR15 is a sophisticated rifle that is often intended for heavy-duty use. Especially in the short Carbine-length versions. The rub is that entry-level and heavy-duty use aren't found in the AR15 side by side in one gun.

What makes the Oracle cheaper? Well no dust cover and no chrome-lined barrel for one thing and parts not up to mil-spec for another. In surveying the net some what comes often is that DPMS stuff is not up to usual AR mil-spec at all. The trigger pull is usually pretty mediocre as well.

For instance, the gas port size on the DPMS stuff is too big. This means the action or BCG is over-gassed. The carbine-length system of the Oracle has its gas port 7 inches down the barrel and operates at incredibly high pressure. Even in proper gas port sized Carbine-length systems this high-pressure system creates elevated bolt velocities and needs attentive maintenance to ensure reliable extraction and operation, especially in rifles that see a lot of firing. If you add _more_ gas then the problem is that much worse. Yet DPMS (and Bushmaster) makes the gas port bigger because they feel that most casual users will shoot cheap low-powered ammo like Wolf and the larger gas port will aid functioning and reliability, especially on a dirty or under-lubricated gun. Use of mil-spec pressure ammo like American Eagle XM193 will really create excessive pressure and bolt speeds in an Oracle.

That is why you see such mixed reviews on the DPMS stuff. In addition DPMS uses a commercial bolt instead of a mil-spec one (Colt uses their heavy FA bolt in their M4). Mil-spec here is inspected, tougher, heavier, and more reliable. When you get away from the 20" Rifle or even the Mid-length gas systems the commercial bolts start to get beat up. And not all commercial bolts are created equal either. The DPMS commercial bolt has been known to fail within a couple of cases of mil-spec pressure ammo during defensive carbine classes. Instructors say that while a minority of the guns used, they are in the majority of failures.

And then there is the chamber spec issues. NATO chambers have a more generous leade/throat area that is compatible with mil-spec pressure M193 and M855 ammo and the bullets they use. SAAMI leade/throats are shorter and pressures rise when used with mil-spec pressure ammo. You can shoot factory .223 in either chamber. Incredibly, and despite what they have been marked as, a certain percentage of DPMS rifles marked 5.56mm have actually had .223 Rem chamber specs - contributing to failures. The buyer/owner of a DPMS is really gambling that his AR really is one of their NATO chamber ones.

It comes down to the fact that DPMS rifle in general, and especially the loss leader Oracle in particular are meant for *causal weekend plinking or hunting with a limited amount of rounds down the barrel - using cheaper and weaker commercial ammo* like Wolf or some of the slower (when actually chronographed) factory ammo like Remington MC. They are tuned to have functional reliability with that stuff rather than free-from-breakage reliability with Mil-spec pressure ammo.

If that is all you want your AR15 for the Oracle will work okay if kept well lubed. Many people have these and are happy doing just that.

If you decide to upgrade some parts to eliminate some of these issues, you can.
A mil-spec M16 Full-Auto bolt like a Colt M4 6920 uses will run you an additional $100+ on the aftermarket from BCM, PSA etc. Changes to the buffer to deal with more of the excessive pressure issue will cost an additional sum. You could drop in a Rock River match trigger for a bit over $100 as well.

Or you could just save up longer and get something with better parts and reputation if those issues bother you and you want a serious defensive rifle.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

Unless you are purchasing an AR from one of the few companies that machine their own parts, ie(Wilson Combat, Larue, etc.) you are getting a rifle with basically the same parts. There are only 3 or 4(?), part manufacturers that supply the majority of all AR parts to the rifle "assemblers". Yes some are higher quality because they are buying the more expensive pieces, but QC is pretty similar since it's all coming from the same places.

PS- I have a DPMS Prairie Panther and I've had several thousand rounds through it. Never had an issue and the coyotes and prairie dogs I've shot with it haven't been a fan.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

The ones I bought had dust shields and forward assist and were chambered for 5.56 as was stamped on the barrel. They handled all the XM193 I could lay my hands on. Chromed bores are great for full-auto or burst fire when accuracy isn't great anyway, otherwise 4140 as is used on most other rifles is fine.

Fit and finish will be down from _some_ of the more expensive guns.

DPMS Oracle™ Barrel Assembly

[attachment=0:39oo2d89]Oracle Upper.jpg[/attachment:39oo2d89]

Description 
•16" Light Contour Barrel
•4140 Chrome-Moly Steel
•1-9 Twist
•Chambered in 5.56x45mm
•A2 Flash Hider
•A3 Upper Receiver
•6066-T6 Aircraft Aluminum Alloy
•Hard Coat Anodized Per Mil Spec
•Complete Bolt Carrier Assembly
•Single Rail Gas Block
•GlacierGuards™ Handguards


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Wow, great info everyone! I really appreciate it. I would definitely be a casual plinker with this gun, at least that is what I envision at this point. Maybe some coyote hunting and plinking for the most part. Just want one is all, would prefer to do it only once. So if there is something dramatically better for not too much more money, that would certainly interest me as well.

I am a little confused about what you guys are saying on the 223 vs 5.56. Are these not interchangeable? I always thought they were the same thing.

This is like the DPMS that I am looking at. http://www.gunsamerica.com/980990829/DP ... ington.htm

Or like this buy in the 223. http://www.dpmsinc.com/308-ORACLE-ATACS_ep_98-1.html

Thanks again for all the replies thus far!


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

tshuntin said:


> Wow, great info everyone! I really appreciate it. I would definitely be a casual plinker with this gun, at least that is what I envision at this point. Maybe some coyote hunting and plinking for the most part. Just want one is all, would prefer to do it only once. So if there is something dramatically better for not too much more money, that would certainly interest me as well.
> 
> I am a little confused about what you guys are saying on the 223 vs 5.56. Are these not interchangeable? I always thought they were the same thing.
> 
> ...


223 ammo in a 5.56 is normally ok. However, the same is not true for the reverse. 223 is loaded to SAAMI specs which is a lower pressure than 5.56. 5.56 is a NATO cartridge and therefore doesn't follow SAAMI specs and has higher pressures. The chambers are different as well, which allows the 5.56 to have the higher velocities and pressures.

With that said, some manufacturers will develop proprietary chambers to handle either equally as well....to error on the side of caution, if it says 223 use 223, if it says 5.56 use 5.56.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Think along the lines of the 38 and 357. Shoot only the 223 in rifles marked 223. Shoot either 223 or 5.56 in rifles marked for the 5.56. My ArmaLite is marked 223/5.56. It has a Wylde chamber that is designed for the 5.56 pressure profile, while maintaining acceptable accuracy with the 223. A lot of commercial ARs that will never see sustained or full auto fire have the Wylde chamber dimensions.


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