# Iron sights vs a scope



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm mad at scopes this fall. Thinking of taking them all off my guns and making a trip to the pawn shop.

So I've made a short list of iron sight pros and cons. I'm sure I've missed some. Add to the list if you like.

*Pros:*


Iron sights will never fog up.
Can't use them in the place of binoculars.
Don't have to walk very far to retrieve an animal shot using iron sights.
Don't have to walk very far to check for blood sign.
Don't have to turn your hat around to shoot.
Light transmission = 100%
Don't need an instruction book.
Iron sights do not come with a computer program.
Inexpensive: iron sights come free with many rifles.
Don't have to cover them up in rain or snow.
Lightweight
When you lean the rifle up against the truck and it falls over the rifle will still be "on zero".
Easy to get in and out of a case or scabbard.
They won't get scratched when you wipe them off with your tee shirt.
Will shoot a 3" group at 100 yards.
 *
Cons:*


Iron sights force the hunter to sneak up closer to his quarry than with a scope.
Can't use them in the place of binoculars.
Hard to see where the animal was hit.
Hunters over 60 will be overcome with melancholy remembering "the good old days"
People that never used iron sights for big game will beat you up on outdoor forums.
You can buy more guns with the huge amount of money you saved on optics and then your spouse will be really mad.
You can't close your eyes then squeeze the trigger and hit anything like you can with a scope.
There's fewer excuses why you missed when using iron sights.
Will shoot a 3" group at 100 yards.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I never liked scopes bunny hunting if the bunnies were running, hard to find the critter in the scope. Now if he is standing still maybe a scope.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> *Cons:*
> 
> 
> Can't use them in the place of binoculars.


Uh. Speaking as someone that put my binos on another hunter as he was looking at me through his scope. -O,- I think you should move this to the "pros" section.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Iron sights will NEVER leave you with a black eye or a split brow.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

willfish4food said:


> Uh. Speaking as someone that put my binos on another hunter as he was looking at me through his scope. -O,- I think you should move this to the "pros" section.


I understand. One should never use a scope to look at a hunter but it's OK to use a scope to look at an animal. So I'll have it in both "Pros" and "Cons".

thanks will

.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I am kicking myself in the @ss for not letting my daughter use my Winchester 94 30-30 this year on the deer hunt. She shot at 3 different bucks from 50-90 yards using my scoped Savage .308. She had a difficult time working the scope. Those deer would have all been easy shots for her with open sights. My fault! and lesson learned.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

I use both. All my ar15 have backup offset iron sights. I learned how to use them while shooting 3 gun and I wouldn't have it any other way now.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Another Pro for iron sights is that we would have huge bucks and bulls running all over the place.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> Another Pro for iron sights is that we would have huge bucks and bulls running all over the place.


Kinda like an "Option 2 for Firearms", cool.

Hey, I'm thinking there should be "Open Sight Only" hunt areas and seasons; great way to sell more tags.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Another Pro:

Guns with iron sights won't lose zero when driving with reckless abandon in your ATV on bumpy roads.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Pro: A thief will steal the scoped gun out of the truck parked next to yours instead of your cheap looking rifle.


-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A few more cons on iron sights:

Hard to focus on 3 things at once. (for me it was when I reached 55)
Hard to aim when the sling is covering the rear sight. (happened to me on a ML hunt)
If they do get knocked off you are going to need a hammer and a something to drift them over. 
A lot easier to loose, either the front or the rear. (I've seen this happen a couple of times with loose sights)


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> A few more cons on iron sights:
> 
> Hard to focus on 3 things at once. (for me it was when I reached 55)
> Hard to aim when the sling is covering the rear sight. (happened to me on a ML hunt)
> ...


Boy, the rear sights on my 44 Mag and my 460 S&W work loose all the time.

.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> Iron sights will NEVER leave you with a black eye or a split brow.


But they can leave you with a broken nose....DON'T ASK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

CON - you might actually have to practice shooting to hit something.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

It's just not the same lickin your thumb and wiping of the end of your scope


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Pro - no sunshade to put on that makes your scope look as long as your barrel. 
Pro - easy to reacquire the target if a follow-up shot is needed. 
Pro - probably not a lot of flatty wears are using open sights.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> Boy, the rear sights on my 44 Mag and my 460 S&W work loose all the time.
> 
> .


I have to admit that the sights on my 44 mags are very solid and haven't moved except for when I have wanted them to.

Now my .41 mag is a different story along with the open sights that were on my Thompson Center .357 Herrett that broke the screws off just before they flew off.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*glare*



CPAjeff said:


> Pro - no sunshade to put on that makes your scope look as long as your barrel.
> Pro - easy to reacquire the target if a follow-up shot is needed.
> Pro - probably not a lot of flatty wears are using open sights.


Good points.

I forgot about the sun issue. I had a bad sun/scope issue on the sheep hunt. (That would be the sheep hunt I'm trying to forget). My bad, I should practice shooting directly into the sun, cover all the bases.

Iron sight Pro:
Limited glare problems.

There are some glare issues with iron sights. At the right angle iron sights can take on some glare. It's not too bad with rear peep sights or, naturally, with front sights that have hoods on them.

Scope Con:
I have some fancy-dancy big$$ scopes that are useless when pointed into the sun.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Boy, the rear sights on my 44 Mag and my 460 S&W work loose all the time.
> 
> .


Loctite holds the 44 mag for quite a while. I have some 300gr loads that have loosened those glued-down screws although.

The only real disappointment I have with 460 Thunderboomer is that it seems no matter what I do the rear sight and the main frame screws work loose over time. I need to talk to the S&W techs on that.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

No-one going to mention it fits in a saddle scabbard easier? Be like Ole John Wayne on the prairie.

-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Con- Not very many good open sights being made these days. Most rifle sights aren't sufficient for pistol work. Pretty much stuck changing things out if you want to really shoot 3" groups at 100 yards. ----SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> No-one going to mention it fits in a saddle scabbard easier? Be like Ole John Wayne on the prairie.
> 
> -DallanC


I did

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ah yep, sorry missed it from the first post.


-DallanC


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> Kinda like an "Option 2 for Firearms", cool.
> 
> Hey, I'm thinking there should be "Open Sight Only" hunt areas and seasons; great way to sell more tags.
> 
> .


sort of like a "primitive sights" hunt? It'd be more handicap than the current muzzleloader hunt.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*horse fell on iron-sighted rifle*



DallanC said:


> Ah yep, sorry missed it from the first post.
> 
> -DallanC


Yeah, it was fresh in my mind from the sheep hunt. I got in a bad spot on a talus slope up against a deadfall tree and ended up with the saddle rolling under the horse and then the horse fell down smashing the old 256 Newton, and the old Goob, against the rocks. Scratched it up pretty good and broke the stock. Took the relic to the range later and it was dead-on.

If it had been a scoped rifle the scope would have been destroyed. And I'm lucky I didn't get hurt, had a broken tree limb run thru me. It was close, scary.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> A few more cons on iron sights:
> 
> Hard to focus on 3 things at once. (for me it was when I reached 55)
> ......................
> ...


Impossible really and like you said as you age the fuzzier one or two of the three things in the sight picture become. Out of the three things; target, front sight and rear sight, it's best to focus on the front sight.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Pro: You can take any picture of you and your rifle, convert it to grey scale and make it look all "old timey". Just make sure you aren't wearing a flat brim hat.


-DallanC


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Pretty much all rifles look better with iron sights. Scope tend to look added on.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*Just missed a wolf*



DallanC said:


> Pro: You can take any picture of you and your rifle, convert it to grey scale and make it look all "old timey". Just make sure you aren't wearing a flat brim hat.
> 
> -DallanC


Uh........I've been big game hunting for over 50 years so I can prolly find black n white pictures of me and an open-sighted rifle. The flat brim hat is tough though.

1978, Lake Dinorwic Ontario Canada, 30-06 Rem 700:


This is what I call an "anti-hero shot." Just missed a wolf from my bear stand, 75 yards. I think I had "wolf fever".

.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Hey Goob, I used to have dark hair also!!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*sad*



Dunkem said:


> Hey Goob, I used to have dark hair also!!


Ah, ha, ha, ha

You know, I don't enjoy going through 40-year old hunting and fishing pictures any more. Many of the people in those pics are gone. The memories are so bittersweet that looking at the old pics makes me kinda sad especially around the Holidays.

Speaking of memories, my dad was quite a gun enthusiast, had perfect eyesight most of his life and was an excellent marksman with open-sighted rifles. I can remember him belonging to some shooting club and shooting an M1 Garand competitively, 600 yard stuff I think.

He taught me how to shoot a rifle, no scope of course. "No need for a **** scope, we're shooting deer and squirrels, not Nazis" he once said. We'd shoot pennies lodged in the bark of trees, first at 20 paces with .22 shorts, later at 75 paces with .22 long rifles. He was really good. About 50% of the time he could split a .22 on an axe blade breaking a baby food jar resting on either side of the ax.

Most of his rifles had 2lb triggers. His favorite .22, a Model 61 Winchester from the 30s had a trigger pull of just under 1lb. He would rest it against the side of a tree trunk and shoot hickory nuts out of the tops of nearby trees, 25 to 40 yards away. I'd closely watch the nuts fall on the ground, run over and pick them up and then bring them back to him. He would inspect them making sure they hadn't been hit by a bullet. *He was aiming at the stem, not the nut.* Just amazing, given the wind was blowing the limb around some.

By the time I got a driver's license and shooting hundreds of boxes of .22s (at 50¢ a box) I could cut the stems of those hickory nuts up in the tree tops with his old .22 Model 61.

He taught me the breathing stuff, where to put my trigger finger, keeping the rifle level, the sun angle in relationship to your sights, the squeeze, the follow through.....how much is a "fine bead"?, a "half bead"?, a "whole bead"...ballistics...wind......geezus, I should of wrote it all down. :-? 
.


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## ZEKESMAN (Sep 14, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Uh........I've been big game hunting for over 50 years so I can prolly find black n white pictures of me and an open-sighted rifle. The flat brim hat is tough though.
> 
> 1978, Lake Dinorwic Ontario Canada, 30-06 Rem 700:
> 
> ...


Or IRON SIGHTS;-)


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## ZEKESMAN (Sep 14, 2007)

Other than the fact that they are not as sturdy, I see no reason. If you shoot anything besides a 30-30 or 45-70 a scope will improve your shooting. Most on here have never seen how much of a deer or Pronghorn is covered by the front bead at 300 yards. Finding running game in a scope is easy, keep both eyes open when you bring your gun up. I think the biggest problem I see is Magnum syndrome huge objectives, massive variable magnification. I like fixed 4 powers. KISS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

ZEKESMAN said:


> .............Most on here have never seen how much of a deer or Pronghorn is covered by the front bead at 300 yards...............................................


The front bead shouldn't cover the animal at 300 yards, or at 600 yards for that matter. You lift the front sight up out of the rear sight groove enough for the bullet's fall at 300 yards. The top of the front bead is on the same place on the animal as it would be at 50 yards, or 100 yards. Same way with target shooting with open sights at 60 yards or 600 yards.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bingo, the full bead never, ever covers the spot you are aiming for.

-DallanC


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> Con- Not very many good open sights being made these days. Most rifle sights aren't sufficient for pistol work. Pretty much stuck changing things out if you want to really shoot 3" groups at 100 yards. ----SS


Yeah. But many of the older open-sighted firearms had some nice sights like adjustable leafs, tang apertures and ladders or say a variety pack of front apertures.

A lot of 45-70s still come with a handful of front apertures.

My old 1916 Newton has a rear leaf with 4 different notches on it; two "V"s and two "U"s:


Back when my eyesight was good in my old 30-06 I'd take a fine bead, just the top of the bead in the "V" at anything under 100 yards. At 200 yards 1/2 bead, at 300 a full bead in the "V" something like that.

Now it's a full bead in the "U" notch, the top of the bead (or ramp on a handgun) on target at 100 yards and under.

Sighting the gun in at the range is slightly different. At 100 yards I need a pretty good sized black circle especially with a revolver. So If the paper target has a 3" diameter black dot I still rest the top of the front bead on the bottom of the 3" diameter circle, not the center of the circle. The bullet impact from there can be anywhere I choose, say bottom of the 3" black circle or the center of the 3" black "dot". I usually try for bullet impact in the center of the 3" dot (in my example). That puts me 1 1/2" high at 100 yards.

Sighting in at 25 or 50 yards I'll use a paper target with a 1" diameter "dot", a .22 target. Same thing here, the top of the front sight on the bottom of the 1" diameter black dot.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Those 50yard NRA rimfire targets, the ones with the 8" circle, work great at 100 yards for open or 1x scoped rifles / muzzleloaders. Big enough you can see it easily and make fine aiming on. 


-DallanC


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*blind as a bat*



DallanC said:


> Those 50yard NRA rimfire targets, the ones with the 8" circle, work great at 100 yards for open or 1x scoped rifles / muzzleloaders. Big enough you can see it easily and make fine aiming on.
> 
> -DallanC


Yeah, maybe after I get the gun "on paper". 

I'm not a muzzy guy but the few times I shot a muzzleloader tells me I would need a pretty good sized target to practice on. I'm impressed with the accuracy you muzzy guys have with open sights.

And for .44 mag and .460 mag revolvers I need something bigger than 8". :?


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

I like to have options. Goob loaned me one of his scope mounts that allows you to use the scope or ion sights. I wasn't too sure about welding the mount directly to my action...but Goob assured me it was the way to go...can't wait to test it out!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

gdog said:


> I like to have options. Goob loaned me one of his scope mounts that allows you to use the scope or ion sights. I wasn't too sure about welding the mount directly to my action...but Goob assured me it was the way to go...can't wait to test it out!


Are you done with?

Wanna buy it?

Geeze, wish I'd a had it on my sheep hunt.

.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

wyogoob said:


> I'm mad at scopes this fall. Thinking of taking them all off my guns and making a trip to the pawn shop.
> 
> So I've made a short list of iron sight pros and cons. I'm sure I've missed some. Add to the list if you like.
> 
> ...


If your vision is still good enough for iron sights then lucky you.

Starting at age 40 most people's vision goes downhill from there.

On my Ruger Mini 14 my iron sights are good out to 50 yards for me.

But even for 100 yards I need to attach my Redfield Battlezone scope to it in order to hit anything.

My scoped Remington 700 is good to 500 yards with its Nikon scope on it.

My scoped Ruger Mini is good to 500 with its Redfield on it.

So the difference is range.

I might as well be hunting with my Hoyt Gamemaster bow as with iron sights.

Huge disadvantage to iron sights when you are old.

Old here having the meaning of anyone over 40.


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