# Is this a legal Spike?



## t_boneking (May 22, 2014)

I have this bull coming into a trail camera and I would love to hunt him if he is a legal spike. I have asked a conservation officer and he has said he is legal if he doesn't branch above the ear. So his one brow tine on his spike side is not an issue. But there appears to be a small nub on his spike side above his ear. I just don't want to shoot an illegal bull but if he was legal I would love to hunt him. What are your thoughts?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

After looking at it several times now I'm not sure. It looks different from different photos.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I say no.
It can't have an eye guard to be a legal spike.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

From page 21 of the field regs:

A "spike bull" means a bull elk which has at least
one antler beam with no branching above the ears.
Branched means a projection on an antler longer than
one inch, measured from its base to its tip (R657-5-
2(2)(r).

So if that nub is not 1" long he is considered a legal spike.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I have always been confused about the wording in regards to "branching above the ear"
Does this mean where the branching starts has to be above the ear? Or does it mean if the length is taller than the ear?
It looks like the branching on this bull starts below the ear.:?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

A little difficult to see the exact antler, but looks the same to me as the bull shown as legal in spike areas on page 21 of the proc http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2016_pdfs/2016_field_regs_low.pdf


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

ridgetop said:


> I say no.
> It can't have an eye guard to be a legal spike.


As bizarre as it is, eye guards are considered branching below the ears. This means brow tines do not disqualify a spike.

As for the bull, I'm going to have to look on my computer but from my phone that bulge sure looks like a tine.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Do you think sfw wants that bull breeding their utah elk?

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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Based upon the pictures here, I would not shoot that bull as a spike. It's a close call on that nub, but it appears to be an inch to me. Unless you can put a tape measure on it to verify before pulling the trigger, I'd pass. It isn't worth the risk to me.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

In the second and third picture, that little nub looks longer than an inch to me. But, I'd certainly keep my eye out for him and if you can get better pictures of that side that show that bit to be less than an inch, definitely go after him. Since it will likely be a close call, just make sure you know where the legal measurement starts and stops.


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

That looks like it's more than just a "nub". It looks like it's a legitimate 1" spike. I'd pass....regardless of what I think the sfw would want!








Notice that not one of those pics has any other points on its spike side....however the "no branch above the ears" would indicate that it could branch on the spike side, i.e. Brow tine, as long as the brow tine doesn't start to branch above the ears. On the picture of the "not legal" spike....those points aren't very big but the DWR still considers it a "not legal" spike. I wouldn't shoot this bull!


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## Rspeters (Apr 4, 2013)

I agree with many that it's hard to tell on the nub, but it's close enough to an inch for me that I'd stay away from it. May be over an inch. That being said, none of the pics are clear enough to be sure.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

The browtines don't count when determining a legal spike. However, that point midway up the beam says not a good idea to shoot this bull. This wouldn't be a case of 'whoops i thought it was a yearling bull and missed a point in my haste'. You'd get the book thrown at you for shooting this bull if it turned out to be illegal. Let him walk IMHO


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## Wyo2ut (Aug 2, 2016)

Huge29 said:


> A little difficult to see the exact antler, but looks the same to me as the bull shown as legal in spike areas on page 21 of the proc http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2016_pdfs/2016_field_regs_low.pdf


To me the bull in question is not at all similar to the pics of legal elk in the proc...the bull in question has a brow tine on the "spike" side. Personally, I would NOT shoot this bull and believe it would be illegal to do so. I think that the brow tine qualifies it as more than just a spike. IF I were in you shoes, I would take the pictures to a CO and specifically ask him if the bull is legal. Then, if I shot it, I would ask the same CO to come verify the legal kill.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I zoomed in a cropped it. Looks smaller than an inch to me. But like others have said, might want to take a closer look. Seems to be right on the line...


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

If you have to break out the tape measure and get down to the 1/16th of an inch to see if a bull is legal, it probably isn't worth it. Cool bull though! I personally would rather shoot a cool, unique bull like that than a 6x6 wall hanger.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Isn't the only question if it branches out >1" above the ears?

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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Looking at it on a bigger screen and zoomed in, there is no way I'd shoot that bull---unless he really wore that point down between now and the season. I would wager that tine ends up between 1-2" long if you taped it. Too bad, as it would be an awesome bull otherwise to fill on a spike tag and it is unlikely to ever be shot on an LE tag.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Looking at that photo at 1031 pm ... I wouldn't risk it. 

"(r) "Spike bull" means a bull elk which has at least one antler beam with no branching above the ears. Branched means a projection on an antler longer than one inch, measured from its base to its tip."

There is a legal reason they don't mention anything other than the branching above the ears. And when they define branched it means from the base, ie the base would undoubtedly need to be below the ears to be a spike. It's my understanding that the state can and does forgive minor mistakes if it was accidental but the context of this one seems outside the scope of that definition. You clearly think it's too clise to call and that branch is likely not verifiable without a kill. 

The risk seems too high.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Place your first shot right below that nub and everything should be fine. Personally, I wouldn't shoot....but I'm a wimp when it comes to legal troubles.----SS


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I would not chance losing hunting privileges over +- 1inch of horn.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Springville Shooter said:


> Place your first shot right below that nub and everything should be fine. Personally, I wouldn't shoot....but I'm a wimp when it comes to legal troubles.----SS


I've seen nubs and antlers break off when a big game animals falls onto rocks and such.....just sayin.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I wouldn't shoot him...too close to chance it. I'd be swearing under my breath if he walked by though!!


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## elkantlers (Feb 27, 2014)

Personally, I hope I never see a bull like that during the spike hunt.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

MWScott72 said:


> I wouldn't shoot him...too close to chance it. I'd be swearing under my breath if he walked by though!!


My first "solo" hunt was a spike muzzy hunt when I was 18. Day 2, 3 miles from camp on the wrong side of the mountain a group of 4 bulls stepped out at 75 yards. One was a two brow tine and mainbeam by spike-with-a-nub. I had some choice words to mutter at that bull that would have gotten me in serious trouble at home!

At the time I wasn't willing to risk the nub being considered a point. I ran into a CO the next day and described the bull--that was when I learned that browtines do not affect a "spike" in utah! Blew my mind!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The more I look at it, the more I am convinced this is not a spike under Utah law. I think the protrusion is over an inch. 

This is why a management tag would be so maddening! But I'm okay if I they want to let me experience it.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Is everyone referring to the kicker looking point at the top, or is there another tine lower on the main beam?

Anyway, if you can't make it out at 20 yds visually in a hunting situation, you certainly won't at 40. Unless you are able to study him prior to shooting, in a hunting situation, you'd likely shoot him because you'd focus on just the brow tine and long main beam. I doubt you could pick out the "kicker" in question.

With the ability to study in still life and not moving, I'd say the kicker point is more than an inch in relation to what the diameter of the beam likely is. With careful study, don't shoot. In real life not likely seeing it, a guy would probably shoot...


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Talked to a neighbor who is a fish cop showed him the pic. He recommends not shooting that bull on a spike only tag. as all the other statements above are spot on. He has the nub that takes him out of qualification as a spike


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

High Desert Elk said:


> Is everyone referring to the kicker looking point at the top, or is there another tine lower on the main beam?
> 
> Anyway, if you can't make it out at 20 yds visually in a hunting situation, you certainly won't at 40. Unless you are able to study him prior to shooting, in a hunting situation, you'd likely shoot him because you'd focus on just the brow tine and long main beam. I doubt you could pick out the "kicker" in question.
> 
> With the ability to study in still life and not moving, I'd say the kicker point is more than an inch in relation to what the diameter of the beam likely is. With careful study, don't shoot. In real life not likely seeing it, a guy would probably shoot...


I think most of us are looking at a nub/kicker ~12inches up the beam on the outside edge. The top of the beam is bladed with a small looking point on it, but I personally don't think that top "pimple" would qualify as a point.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I wouldn't shoot him either. If it turns out that there is even the smallest tiny weeny notch on that top nub...he is branched! Now, if you get close enough to really see that that top nub is smooth, then maybe. But that lower nub is still troubling...I guess, you better pass.


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