# Maxi-Ball vs. Round Ball



## Justym21

In preparation for my elk hunt this week, I spent a few hours at the range over a few outings and was comparing the 320g maxi-ball to the 175g round ball. I am using a T/C hawkens, .50 cal, 1/48 twist, with open sights. Target is 100yrds. 

Base statistics from the manual on the two rounds-
175g lead round ball, 90g of pyrodex premium, ~1950fps, ~1478 ft.Lbs.
320g lead maxi-ball, 90g of pyrodex premium, ~1462fps, ~1519 ft.Lbs.

I shot 20 rounds of the maxi-balls first from the bench followed by 15 from shooting sticks. I shot 6 of the round balls from the bench and 6 from the shooting sticks. That is about all I had the shoulder for with that metal butt plate.

The first box of 20 maxi-balls loaded pretty well. I could get about 4 rounds per barrel swab and they shot about a 14" group at 100yrds. The second box of maxi-balls were a bear to load. I was only getting one shot per barrel swab and was still having issues getting them to load. It also would throw a wild shot once in a while to the edges of the cardboard. I checked lot numbers and sizes and everything was the same. The only difference I could find was one box had the bore butter pretty clean and the difficult one had the bore butter all over the place. 

The round balls always loaded smooth. From the bench they shot about a 6" group from 100yrds. They also did not kick nearly as hard, a big plus after so many rounds through it. I was swabbing every two rounds just from the experience of the last maxi-ball box. 

I am leaning towards the round balls for my elk hunt this week. They appear to have a similar muzzle energy as the larger conical but hold a better pattern down range. 

What are some of your thoughts? Anyone taken elk with a .50 round ball? Thanks for any input.


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## sagebrush

I would stick with the maxi ball.
Round balls from a. 50 cal seem small for elk. Plus if i was going to use a round it would. Be from a. 54 cal they weigh at 230 grns and fifty yards would be my max range for them.


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## DallanC

sagebrush said:


> I would stick with the maxi ball.
> Round balls from a. 50 cal seem small for elk. Plus if i was going to use a round it would. Be from a. 54 cal they weigh at 230 grns and fifty yards would be my max range for them.


+1

-DallanC


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## Justym21

(Whistle...) just did the ballistics calculations.

The Maxi-Ball is dropping to 867 ft.Lbs of energy at 100yrds. The round balls are a dismal 467 ft.Lbs.! At 50 yards there is only 814 ft.Lbs. on the round balls. I would not feel comfortable with a round ball much past 50yrds. I may try another box of the Maxi-balls and see if this second box was just junk.


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## Dukes_Daddy

+2 on MaxiBalls Big bullets leave big holes = dead critters You won't be shooting much so the issues with loading won't be a problem. 

Good luck.


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## richardjb

You are joking, right? 14 inch group at 100 yards. Really? Stay home! Or find something that will get you down to 4 inch or better with the old gear. Sorry, but that should never be acceptable!


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## Justym21

Your comment bothered me at first, but you have an important point that I believe everyone shares (at least the accuracy part of it). I do not find 14" groups acceptable and the purpose of this post was to get some input. I plan on hitting the range one last time tomorrow and if this hawkens will not tighten down I do have other rifles at my disposal that will give me sub 2" groups. This hawkens was just a gift and wanted to try a more traditional approach.


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## Critter

Try varying your powder load a little for the maxi-balls. In my .54 TC Renegade it loves the .54 caliber maxi-ball with 90 grains of powder. I started with 110 grains and the shots were all over the place, I dropped it down and now can shoot a 3" group with the open sights. On the other hand the .54 caliber round balls love the higher 110 grain load.


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## DallanC

Roundballs need SLOW twists, 1/48" twists that the factory Hawkin has is too fast if you are using much powder. Too much powder = too much velocity and the ball will "stripe" over the lands deforming the ball and throwing accuracy out the window. Find a 1/66 or 1/72 twist barrel for roundballs.

Maxi's almost work ok in 1/48" twist barrels, but I think 1/38" is whats needed to really get them to spin fast enough to stabilize. Most other modern muzzleloaders had even faster twists, 1/28 on down to 1/24" to stabilize fast sabotted pistol bullets.

1/48" is a jack of all trades barrel, its a compromise that just doesnt work great with either bullet type... too fast for round balls, too slow for maxi's. I rebarreled my hawkin with a 1/28" green river barrel years back and its a tack driver with maxi's.


-DallanC


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## richardjb

Justym21 said:


> Your comment bothered me at first, but you have an important point that I believe everyone shares (at least the accuracy part of it). I do not find 14" groups acceptable and the purpose of this post was to get some input. I plan on hitting the range one last time tomorrow and if this hawkens will not tighten down I do have other rifles at my disposal that will give me sub 2" groups. This hawkens was just a gift and wanted to try a more traditional approach.


My old hawken was beginning to throw my lead every which way. I was smacking my rounds after I seated them, which I believe was deforming them. This may be your problem, or you may have wrong tip for loading your rounds. I finally went to the dark side last year and got me a new inline. It loves Blackhorn 209 powder,T-EZ barnes bullets. Shoots 1 1/2 inch groups with a Nikon 1 power scope at 100 yards. DON'T try Blackhorn in your sidelock, big warnings on label. Good luck and happy hunting!


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## Justym21

Between actually measuring out the powder (eye balling it on a measure just doesn't work as well) and adjusting some ways I was reacting to the rifle, I got the maxi-balls down to about 5" on the bench. I was told this was within the MOE (minute of Elk) and should feel comfortable in taking a cow with this rifle. I am taking this rifle and another one just in case. 

I will let everyone know how the hunt goes.


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## royta

Critter said:


> Try varying your powder load a little for the maxi-balls. In my .54 TC Renegade it loves the .54 caliber maxi-ball with 90 grains of powder. I started with 110 grains and the shots were all over the place, I dropped it down and now can shoot a 3" group with the open sights. On the other hand the .54 caliber round balls love the higher 110 grain load.





DallanC said:


> Roundballs need SLOW twists, 1/48" twists that the factory Hawkin has is too fast if you are using much powder. Too much powder = too much velocity and the ball will "stripe" over the lands deforming the ball and throwing accuracy out the window. Find a 1/66 or 1/72 twist barrel for roundballs.
> 
> Maxi's almost work ok in 1/48" twist barrels, but I think 1/38" is whats needed to really get them to spin fast enough to stabilize. Most other modern muzzleloaders had even faster twists, 1/28 on down to 1/24" to stabilize fast sabotted pistol bullets.
> 
> 1/48" is a jack of all trades barrel, its a compromise that just doesnt work great with either bullet type... too fast for round balls, too slow for maxi's. I rebarreled my hawkin with a 1/28" green river barrel years back and its a tack driver with maxi's.
> 
> -DallanC


Good info with these two posts. I have a single trigger .54 T/C Renegade that I switched from a PRB to a T/C Maxi-Ball when I went on a spike elk hunt in 2010. I didn't shoot at an elk then, or at a deer last year or this year, so I haven't seen first hand how they perform.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a faster twist Green Mountain barrel to improve the accuracy of conicals.


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## 10yearquest

I dont know if this has been mentioned but a 175 grain bullet is not legal for elk. must be 210.


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## Justym21

10yearquest is correct. Page 31. Requires a minimum of a .54 to hunt with a round ball which is a good thing. Hopefully tomorrow we will get the chance to see what a 320g bullet will do...


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## richardjb

Glad to see you got the group to tighten up. Good Luck!


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## Justym21

After some careful thought I elected to hunt with my friends custom Knight. This rifle feels amazing, shoots like a dream, and with this being my first Elk hunt I wanted to make sure i had as much advantage as possible. This will give me all summer to work on that hawkens.

So today we saw 8 Bulls (including one very LARGE bull) one very nice 4 point buck, and more does than we cared to count, but not one cow elk. Maybe tomorrow will be the day.


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## 10yearquest

Good luck man. I hunted elk with a ml in '98 when you had to draw the tag. Never got a shot at the couple elk we saw but have wanted to try again. If only archery weren't so awesome!


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## Justym21

dang, well...3 days of hunting hard and we have found 25 Bulls, 3 large 4 point deer, and so many other deer I am sick of seeing them. Tomorrow is the last day I can get up there so we are hoping for the best. (oh, and 4 tasty grouse in the freezer)


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## redleg

Dallan C knows what he is talking about


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