# Another Spider Bull Video



## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

Some you guys have probly already seen this video but I think it is pretty cool, exspcially the last part of the clip!

http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/jj14 ... ebsite.flv

The attention this bull is getting is starting to get unreal!

MArk


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

That was pretty nice clip there. some great bulls.thanks for sharing that with us


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Did you see all those Mossback atv's surrounding the poor critter? Just wrong I tell you!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I could see the helicopter in the background.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

I hope this bull makes it to loose his velvet I would love to see the rack all clean. Any guesses on the score?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I think he'll clear B&C minimum. :shock: If he doesn't make it past shedding his velvet he means he was poached. :?


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

looks like he's gettin close to done, points are sharpening up!
What do you think ol' Doug Miller would say about this critter?


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## jhunter (Dec 14, 2007)

" Where did we put the steak sauce?" -()/-


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## High Country (Apr 27, 2008)

Like I have said in another post that I have been hunting on Monroe for 30 years and we have never seen a non typical bull of any kind. 

I would have to say that he came off of an elk farm and is more than likely being fed in order to keep him around. There are way to many people getting looks at this bull and he is not spooked at all.

If he hadn't walked in front of the trailer, I would have thought he was hobbled.


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## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

High Country said:


> Like I have said in another post that I have been hunting on Monroe for 30 years and we *have never seen a non typical bull of any kind*.
> 
> I would have to say that he came off of an elk farm and is more than likely being fed in order to keep him around. There are way to many people getting looks at this bull and he is not spooked at all.
> 
> If he hadn't walked in front of the trailer, I would have thought he was hobbled.


Are you SERIOUS!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: You *truly* think this bull was ranched??? OMG....this is getting just plain STUPID!

I live in Monroe....I have seen plenty of NonTyp bulls and have seen lots of sheds from the Monroe.

If you REALLY have spent ANY time at all on this mountain........You would know that the summer range has *ALWAYS!!!!* been like this. You can drive down ANY main road and watch 100s of bulls while in the velvet from 50 yards away.....When they start to Harden up....the bulls DISAPPEAR!!!!!

Those who "really do" know about Monroe Unit will know of a bull called "Patches" he was watched, filmed, pictures of him taken all Summer long....for years! MANY MANY MANY people tried to kill this bull. I think all of Sevier county watched this bull during the summer. his sheds were found for years going as big as 390.....and when he was FINALLY KILLED....years later(2007)......he was aged at 13, had NO teeth and was only a 360" bull.

ANYONE who has spent some real time in the Summer stages of growth on these bulls, KNOW how the it is....

Give me a BREAK on the farm fed crap!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a grip people....it is a big bull......someone will end up killing him and breaking all kinds of records.....GET OVER IT that it will not be YOU!!!!!!

o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-||


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I live in Monroe....I have seen plenty of NonTyp bulls and have seen lots of sheds from the Monroe.
> 
> If you REALLY have spent ANY time at all on this mountain........You would know that the summer range has ALWAYS!!!! been like this. You can drive down ANY main road and watch 100s of bulls while in the velvet from 50 yards away.....When they start to Harden up....the bulls DISAPPEAR!!!!!


Did anyone see this bull the last few years on the Mountain? Surely he didnt get huge overnight?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > I live in Monroe....I have seen plenty of NonTyp bulls and have seen lots of sheds from the Monroe.
> >
> > If you REALLY have spent ANY time at all on this mountain........You would know that the summer range has ALWAYS!!!! been like this. You can drive down ANY main road and watch 100s of bulls while in the velvet from 50 yards away.....When they start to Harden up....the bulls DISAPPEAR!!!!!
> 
> ...


Good point CS. You got me thinking..........I got pictures of this same bull from a friend of mine who also lives in Monroe. I didn't ask where he got the pics, wasn't important. You're right, with horns like that, the genetics should have shown up in years past, unless he has some disease. I've seen deer with wild racks and they had eaten too much pesticides, had leukemia or some other ailment.

Anyway I got to thinking about the world record elk from 2006;










Come to find out that bull was a scam, taken on a game farm:










Some say it was tranquilized and the hunting picture was a setup. And the animal is still out there to pass on his genes. Geezus, who knows it's the internet ya know.

Look close at the next picture. The bogus elk from the 2006 scam has the some of the same characteristics as this Spider Bull:










I'm givin' the Spider Bull 5 out of 10 BS flags.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm not saying the picture is a hoax, but Im just wondering why people haven't see him much in the past. Why is he so easy to find this year? I know people have seen him on the Monroe this year and Doyle filmed him.

Im not saying this has happened but........Is it possible that an elk farmer dumped this bull off on the mountain? I just dont rule out any possiblites. If he did then what are his motives?

Fishlakehunter you know the mountain since its your backyard. When is the first time people talked about this bull? Did they see on the winter range? Have sheds been found in the past?


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

I would assume that any man running a farm would not release this bull for any reason. He could proabably fetch a high dollar for something like that. If it was in fact "ranched" which I doubt personally, I would be that it escaped some how, and not released.

Nice bull, I hope somebody with a tag kills him! If that bull could think like us....he's gonna be thinking he has crossed enemy lines in about a month. I hope he is in good shape...cause he is gonna be runnin!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> He could proabably fetch a high dollar for something like that. If it was in fact "ranched" which I doubt personally, I would be that it escaped some how, and not released.


Exactly, but is there any elk farms near the Monroe? Yeah someone will **** their pants this year when they harvest him.


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## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

CS....

I know I shouldnt go here but.............

There are some guys that think they have been watching this bull for the last 3 years. There are some certain characteristics that they think it is the same bull. Last year he was on the south end of the unit and was also on the Dutton unit. The sheds from him last year only go about 385". There are some certain things that make some think he is the same bull.

Do I believe that....I am not sure. I have seen the pictures of the bull from last year....there are some crazy similarities.....

Some are saying he came over form the Beaver unit....it is possible...I have seen bulls cross between these units.

I think it could be a "perfect storm" this year as far as antler growth! The grass is GREEN and dang near belly high right now. It is possible this bull had the genetics, but has not had the feed and the water to get this kind of growth. Everytime he has been seen he is *EATING CONSTANTLY* He has been seen out in the meadows feeding at 2 in the afternoon!

I think there are many possiblities of his amazing growth this year...............do I think some rancher loaded him up and dropped him off...............NO NO NO NO NO! I just dont see the motivation in this.

What makes us think we could NOT produce a bull like this. We have broken records EVERY YEAR the last 3 years!!! Maybe......just maybe....we will break another one this year.

Or................maybe I am just plain wrong.......who knows....I have decided that you can say all you want on this forum....and there will ALWAYS be those who disagree. Sooooooooo I guess it will be what it will be!


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

GIVE ME AN M! GIVE ME AN O! GIVE ME AN S! GIVE ME ANOTHER S! GIVE ME A B! GIVE ME AN A! GIVE ME A C! GIVE ME A K! Actually just give me a tag, i'll go chase him with the 900 other guys. Maybe we should UFC fight first, have a single elimination tournament and whoever wins gets one shot at him, if he misses on to number 2 and so on...anyone in?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

The PRO or callofthewild will shoot this bull this year when it crosses into the dutton unit. _(O)_


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

FishlakeElkHunter said:


> CS....
> 
> I know I shouldnt go here but.............
> 
> ...


That's a great story FLEH. I'm changing my humble opinion to 3 out of 10 BS flags.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Another season or two of him walking around like that, and those tine's get any closer together, he'll probably become a moose !! :shock:


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

> by .45 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:39 am
> 
> Another season or two of him walking around like that, and those tine's get any closer together, he'll probably become a moose !!


and then I'll REALLY have a hard one for him!!!!!


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

Here's a novel idea. Why not protect him and allow those genes to be passed on as long as possible? He "belongs" to all of us and I for one see no reason to allow anyone to hang him on the wall. Some animals deserve to be there for everyone to enjoy as long as possible. Want to hunt him? Fine, take a stock mounted camera and record your "shot". The UDWR/State could certainly make it illegal to harvest him. He certainly isn't going to be shot just for meat.

I'd love the thrill of hunting him but I would also love the thrill of seeing him and take some pictures of him and allow him to go on his majestic way, passing those genes on.

To hunt doesn't always mean to kill.

Flame away......


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I think it could be a "perfect storm" this year as far as antler growth! The grass is GREEN and dang near belly high right now. It is possible this bull had the genetics, but has not had the feed and the water to get this kind of growth. Everytime he has been seen he is EATING CONSTANTLY He has been seen out in the meadows feeding at 2 in the afternoon!


I think the reason he has his head down so much is because of the RACK on his head. He has nothing better to do when his neck get tired. So he just eating and eating while resting his neck


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## bigdcred (Sep 19, 2007)

He came over from the Beaver unit this winter, this is the first year he has been on the Monroe, Not a farm Elk eather, Just injoy this great bull and hope the lucky hunter who takes him is from UTAH........


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Is it possible that these are the sheds of the Spider bull?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7048


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Doc said:


> Here's a novel idea. Why not protect him and allow those genes to be passed on as long as possible? He "belongs" to all of us and I for one see no reason to allow anyone to hang him on the wall. Some animals deserve to be there for everyone to enjoy as long as possible. Want to hunt him? Fine, take a stock mounted camera and record your "shot". The UDWR/State could certainly make it illegal to harvest him. He certainly isn't going to be shot just for meat.
> 
> I'd love the thrill of hunting him but I would also love the thrill of seeing him and take some pictures of him and allow him to go on his majestic way, passing those genes on.
> 
> ...


Brilliant, we are now going to start 'protecting' certain bulls/bucks. :? :roll: As old as this bull is, he has already passed on his genetics MANY times over. I hunt with the intent to kill, otherwise it wouldn't be hunting, it would be photo excursions. _(O)_


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

Another outstanding post from Pro. _(O)_


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Doc said:


> Another outstanding post from Pro. _(O)_


So tell me Doc, how LEGALLY would you 'protect' this bull? What do you tell those who have a tag, sorry but "Doc" wants this bull to live a few more years, so even though you have a ANY bull tag for this area you can"t kill this one? OUTSTANDING! :roll:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Here's a novel idea. Why not protect him and allow those genes to be passed on as long as possible? He "belongs" to all of us and I for one see no reason to allow anyone to hang him on the wall. Some animals deserve to be there for everyone to enjoy as long as possible. Want to hunt him? Fine, take a stock mounted camera and record your "shot". The UDWR/State could certainly make it illegal to harvest him. He certainly isn't going to be shot just for meat.


Are you actually serious when you post this kind of stuff? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

I say tranquilize him and take DNA samples. If it is proven he is a hybrid then the DRr should take himj out and the last thing he should be doing is passing on his gene's. Hopefully he dies August 16


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Just think Travis, you could have spent those points on the Monroe and be a part of the amazing chase. Too bad for you, you'll have to hunt in solitude. :wink:


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

I'd rather not have a tag than to feel like I was at the carnival hoping to be the first to get my ball in a dish.
This is a prime example of why after 14 years I decided to waste my points on the N Cache, I have spent at least 3 days a week since mid June watching bulls and have yet to encounter another sole. Of course it does get kind of lonely.
Not that it will matter, however I do hope that a DNA test is done to clarify the genetics of this bull. If it is truly a Rocky Mountain Elk (RME) it will have to deemed the most impressive animal of any species, outranking some of the legendary whitetails. If it is proven to be a hybrid well it is just another farm elk and some poor succor got duped. Maybe he is a migrant from eastern Idaho, there was an escape of a few elk from a farm up there a couple of years ago.
Sad thing will be if he is a hybrid and has produced offspring. Then Utahs claim to fantastic elk will always be tainted as you will never know if they are truly RME's or not without testing. Hunting is beginning to sound more like professional sports everyday. Scouting, Signing Bonuses, Doping, etc. etc. etc.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> If it is proven he is a hybrid then the DRr should take himj out and the last thing he should be doing is passing on his gene's. Hopefully he dies August 16


In most cases hybrid are sterile so this bull wouldn't be able to reproduce. If you're say hes a hybrid then the what is the cross?

Rocky Mountain elk and Red Stag.

Farm raised elk and wild elk both have the same DNA. Farm raised elk are fed mineral supplements for horn growth. Some may have been given steroids. Scientists havent genetically altered farm raised elk.

I dont believe the Spider bull is a hybrid nor has he been given steroids. These impressive racks can occur in nature because obviously some elk have genes for growing non-typical antlers. The same thing happens in Mule deer and whitetail deer. These same genes have caused some deer, elk, moose, buffalo to be albino which also has occurred in nature.

Habitat is another reason for horn growth and the amount of minerals available in that area also plays a big part.

A DNA test will show that hes a Rocky Mountain ELK. After all he looks like an elk right?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Lots of people have seen/filmed him, but no one has been specific about whether his is on private or public ground or both. The trailer house says something, but I know people who spend all summer "camping" on public land. If it's private land all you have to do is post it to protect him, 'cause hunters NEVER trespass, right?

My prediction? No matter who gets him or how, the stories/controversy will never end. He comes with a curse!!!!


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

*Monroe is not the place for big elk...*

:lol: I would truly encourage all of you bwanas, who have ever thought of applying for a elk tag to please take Pro's advice and apply elsewhere. Monroe has very few good bulls and besides Fish Lake, Dutton, Manti, and Stansberry Park are all better units to draw a trophy bull elk tag. Besides this saves the Broke-Back boys a ton of money on road closed signs. Please, PLEASE, do not waste your time, tag or application on a Monroe bull elk tag.:mrgreen:

Bigbr


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Besides this saves the *Broke-Back boys *a ton of money on road closed signs. Please, PLEASE, do not waste your time, tag or application on a Monroe bull elk tag.


It's probably pretty easy to slam someone when there not even on this forum. Im sure it doesnt even require good typing skills. You're brilliant :roll: :roll: You're pretty pathetic sometimes.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: Monroe is not the place for big elk...*



bigbr said:


> :lol: I would truly encourage all of you bwanas, who have ever thought of applying for a elk tag to please take Pro's advice and apply elsewhere. Monroe has very few good bulls and besides Fish Lake, Dutton, Manti, and Stansberry Park are all better units to draw a trophy bull elk tag. Besides this saves the Broke-Back boys a ton of money on road closed signs. Please, PLEASE, do not waste your time, tag or application on a Monroe bull elk tag.:mrgreen:
> 
> Bigbr


Even if your advice is good, which I suspect has ulterior motives, it is too late for this spiderman bull circus. As near as I can tell, all the tags that could make this bull a target during archery season have been sold.

Has anyone informed the the winners of the conservation tags sold on the auctions that this bull is available to them?
MDF - Bull Elk - Monroe - Archery - Sold 02/15/08 - Layton
MDF - Bull Elk - Premium Monroe - All Seasons - Sold 02/23/08 - 
Cedar City
SWE/SFH - Statewide - Archery - Sold ?

Let's add to the circus!!! Like I said, this bull comes with a curse!!


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Besides this saves the *Broke-Back boys *a ton of money on road closed signs. Please, PLEASE, do not waste your time, tag or application on a Monroe bull elk tag.
> 
> 
> It's probably pretty easy to slam someone when there not even on this forum. Im sure it doesnt even require good typing skills. You're brilliant :roll: :roll: You're pretty pathetic sometimes.


Coyoteslayer,

My ex mother-in-law use to think I was pathetic also....... Sorry my attempt at humor ruffled your feathers. I will try not too even imply any humor about the ______ anointed any more, as I know that this would truly brake some peoples heart. Sorry about my grammatical imperfections, that's what six years in college gets you now days.

I will truly try to reform.........

Yours Humbly Bigbr


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## Bergy (Apr 3, 2008)

Sorry about my grammatical imperfections, that's what six years in college gets you now days.

I will truly try to reform.........

Yours Humbly Bigbr[/quote]

WOW It took you 6 years to get through Stevens Henegar. Only took me 5. :wink: j/k


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

6 years of college should have required a basic biology class. There you may have learned that most hybrids are not sterile. Only in rare occasions when the crossbreeding results in an odd chromosone. However, not here to argue the small stuff. Red Stags have been imported and crossbred to RME's for quite some time in game farming operations specifically to yeild antler growth. Unfortunatley these two species do not have the same DNA nor are they the same specie. If a crossbreeding occurs in our wild population it will be a sad day. 
Again I hope this bull is tested, I am highly skeptical to its origin.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> 6 years of college should have required a basic biology class. There you may have learned that most hybrids are not sterile. Only in rare occasions when the crossbreeding results in an odd chromosone. However, not here to argue the small stuff. Red Stags have been imported and crossbred to RME's for quite some time in game farming operations specifically to yeild antler growth. Unfortunatley these two species do not have the same DNA nor are they the same specie. If a crossbreeding occurs in our wild population it will be a sad day.
> Again I hope this bull is tested, I am highly skeptical to its origin.


I guess you didnt read what I said.



> *In most cases hybrid are sterile *so this bull wouldn't be able to reproduce. If you're say hes a hybrid then the what is the cross?
> 
> *Rocky Mountain elk and Red Stag*.





> Unfortunatley these two species do not have the same DNA nor are they the same specie. If a crossbreeding occurs in our wild population it will be a sad day.


If this was to occur then the offspring would be sterile.

Horses and Donkeys = sterile Mule

Mule deer and whitetail cross = sterile offspring

Wiper are sterile

Tiger Trout are sterile

If an elk and red stag cross and their offspring is able to reproduce then their not a true Hybrid and their DNA is very similiar. The Red Stag characteristics would eventually be weeded out I dont think an elk and red stag can reproduce.


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

Hybridization and sterility depends upon type.
Basically two types exist interspecific (sterile hybrids due to odd chromozones) and intraspecific (fertile hybrids)
Here are examples of fertile hybrids:

Beefalo
Humans not from the same race
Canid Hybrids (all heinz 57 mixes)
Wolphin

Basically when two animals from the same genus mate a fertile offspring will result. 
Mule deer X whitetail are fertile in most cases.
Mules + odd Chromozone Horses having 64 Donkey's having 62 Mules having 63 + sterilization 
Wiper and Tiger Trout different genus I believe would need to check. Specifically bred to be non producing and predatory, this is called selective mating. Selectice mating also occurs with elk hence IMO the spider bull.
Again once an outcross is accomplished and the offspring can reproduce you run the risk of never having a completely pure strain of the outcross animal.


If you are happy with diluting the RME's gene pool that is OK. As for me I am not.

If you want more of a biology lesson PM me.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Mule deer X whitetail are fertile in most cases.


This is incorrect a Mule deer whitetail cross is always sterile. (You might want to check on this one.)



> Humans not from the same race


It doesnt matter with humans because all humans have 46 Chromosomes.

I could tutor you in DNA so please PM me if you need some help.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

*Girls gone WILD......Oh my......*



mulepacker said:


> 6 years of college should have required a basic biology class. There you may have learned that most hybrids are not sterile. Only in rare occasions when the crossbreeding results in an odd chromosone. However, not here to argue the small stuff. Red Stags have been imported and crossbred to RME's for quite some time in game farming operations specifically to yeild antler growth. Unfortunatley these two species do not have the same DNA nor are they the same specie. If a crossbreeding occurs in our wild population it will be a sad day.
> Again I hope this bull is tested, I am highly skeptical to its origin.


MP,

Most of my six years in college were studying biology, both in and out of class. What are you trying to imply here.......that I am a Hybrid? 

I must have slept through the animal husbandry classes, darn chromosomes anyway. I had a heck of a time with photosynthesis and the kreb cycle.... :mrgreen:

Oh well, I do not believe that the spider bull has any hybridization in him, just good ol' rocky mountain elk genes running through his veins and judging from the photos and video, he still has his fishing tackle intact to produce some more little spider bulls should he and the Mrs. connect up before the tenth mountain division catch up to him. :twisted:

Back in the late eighties I have, what I believe is, a picture of his grand pappy, with 9x11 per side. He and about eighteen bulls use to batch it out over around Mudd Lake. Oh well those were found memories, before we started ranching for wildlife.... :roll: 
Bigbr

PS, CS I tried to keep this clean and educational.... _(O)_


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> PS, CS I tried to keep this clean and educational....


I'm glad you did :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> If you are happy with diluting the RME's gene pool that is OK. As for me I am not.





> If a crossbreeding occurs in our wild population it will be a sad day.
> Again I hope this bull is tested, I am highly skeptical to its origin.


I think we have a bigger problem with the whitetail that are moving into this state breeding mule deer does and the offspring are STERILE than the genetics from the Spider bull.

I dont believe a crossbreeding will occur in Utah because I havent seen any Red Stags for the ELK to crossbred with. What I was saying MP is the fact that even if you take a "hybrid elk" that is a cross between a Stag and RME then after several generations those characteristics are weeded out in the offspring because wild elk are doing the breeding and not both species mixing constantly.

If someone was to dump off a crossbred elk and was caught then he will be in deep elk dodo.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I have to rescind my BS flags. My friend in Monroe assures me that the spider bull is real, and local, and can be viewed at the )*I&^^%$%$#M<yug every night eating chromosome-damaging alfalfa sprayed with pesticides.

Just kidding, sorry.

I'm just paranoid about the internet anymore.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Hybids, red stags, ranch raised, arguments about basic biology, name calling, he's tame, he's wild, he's on private land, he's on public land, he came out of nowhere, he's been here forever, he's been seen on Mt. Dutton, he's always been on the Monroe, I remember his grandfather, and on and on. He ain't even dead yet and the curse has started already!!!!!

And you ain't seen nothin' yet. Once he's down, there'll be the offers to mount him at a "discount", head mount, body mount, offers to put him on tour, offers to "rent" him for display at the bar, photo shoots, offers to buy the story of the "hunt", phone calls late at night and knocks on the door 'cause "me and the boys here want to see him", you'll have to keep the mount under lock and key 24/7, it'll have to be insured, offers to make copies of the rack. Then wait 'till the anti's hear about it. HE'S CURSED, I TELL YA, HE'S CURSED!!!!

My condolences to the poor slob who gets him! (****, how I wish it were me!!!)


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

*Monroe, Utahs Newest National Park*

In order to protect the spider bull and all future hybrids, I purpose that we enact legislation to make the Monroe hunting unit, Utah's newest national park.........This would save the spider bull and avoid the dreaded curse that would come to any person who should cause the demise to such freak of nature.

We could start the new park inauguration with an native Indian prayer, similar to the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic opening ceremonies. Donations could be gathered for a new Utah taxidermy display to be housed at the new park visitors center.

Please write your congressman now..... We have less than a month to save the spider bull's life...Do not wait act now call 1-800 spiderBULL.....


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

mulepacker


> This is a prime example of why after 14 years I decided to waste my points on the N Cache, I have spent at least 3 days a week since mid June watching bulls and have yet to encounter another sole.


Waste of points :lol: :lol: :lol: Just stay stay away from my 400" bull. I am shcoked we have not met up yet. Then again that unit is thick and easy to stay away from people. By the way have you seen the 30" buck yet?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I wouldnt mind the curse  I would gladly accept.


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## mulepacker (Sep 11, 2007)

Coyoteslayer

A liitle fodder to chew on:

Fertility in an F1 male hybrid of white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) x mule deer (O. hemionus) 
JN Derr, DW Hale, DL Ellsworth, and JW Bickham 


The fecundity of an F1 male hybrid deer, from a cross between a male Odocoileus virginianus (white-tailed deer) and a female O. hemionus (mule deer), was assessed by cytogenetic and flow cytometric techniques. Analysis of chromosome morphology, nucleolus organizer expression, meiotic chromosome pairing, sperm production, and nuclear gene inheritance revealed no genetic anomalies that could potentially impair normal fertility. These observations are discussed in relation to recent reports of hybridization between natural populations of these two species.

As far as being a racist I hope not: This could upset the cutest kid (my granddaughter) I know, along with my daughter (a caucasian) and my son in law (an African American). 

Thanks for the PM and best of luck this fall.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

do you have a link?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> and if you use milt from a Brook to fertilize Brown eggs, (instead of visa versa) the resulting tigers can be fertile.


Does this occur in nature or is man trying to play god and create a new specie?


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > and if you use milt from a Brook to fertilize Brown eggs, (instead of visa versa) the resulting tigers can be fertile.
> 
> 
> Does this occur in nature or is man trying to play god and create a new specie?


Yes!

On the Madison River in Montana and anywhere that you have both brooks and browns in the same fishery. Only about one in three eggs are fertile and grow past the embryonic stage.

Bigbr

PS, it is my understanding that hatchery raised tigers are UV sterilized before they are released


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Yes, but this crossing in nature is very rare and it does cause many problems for the fishery because the trout aren't purebreed. I have helped poison streams out in the Deep Creeks because someone planted rainbows and they were crossing with the Bonneville cutthroats.

Most male tiger trout in the wild are sterile. The male tiger trout is sterile because dissimilarity between the chromosome numbers of the two parent species. Brook trout have 84 chromosomes and browns have 80.

The mule/white-tail deer hybrids don't survive very long because the hybrids don't inherit either parent's escape strategy.


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## Extex (Sep 11, 2007)

Is spiderman possibly a f1 or f2 hybrid????????? I would not want to shoot a f2 - if I had a tag an f2 would just not be worthy :roll: And deer born with or without an escape strategy - you guys should really listen to yourselves :lol: 

Thats an awesome bull - too bad he's in the circus now.


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## Moose Hollow (Apr 26, 2008)

Anybody still finding the Spider bull.

http://www.moosehollowoutdoors.com


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## widgeon_whopper (Jul 26, 2008)

All of this crap about this bull being a hybrid is BULL! I know of pictures from the summer of 07 that have a very strong possibility of being the same bull. The bull we have pictures of was in the exact same area that "Spider Bull" is staying in this summer. Last year he was a 7x7 with the same brow tine configuration as ''Spider Bull''. He was actually named Tarzan by my friends son this June. The truck and trailer in the video happens to belong to an awesome couple from Salt Lake who grew up in Salina. We have been passing pictures of Tarzan that were taken from the window of the trailer so as not to disturb this magnificent animal. 

If this bull is harvested this year, I just hope that it is by some great guy or gal that has been waiting for the opportunity to hunt this area and was fortunate to draw a tag this year. I'd hate to see someone that has a huge wallet be able to "buy" him.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> All of this crap about this bull being a hybrid is BULL! I know of pictures from the summer of 07 that have a very strong possibility of being the same bull. The bull we have pictures of was in the exact same area that "Spider Bull" is staying in this summer. Last year he was a 7x7 with the same brow tine configuration as ''Spider Bull''. He was actually named Tarzan by my friends son this June. The truck and trailer in the video happens to belong to an awesome couple from Salt Lake who grew up in Salina. We have been passing pictures of Tarzan that were taken from the window of the trailer so as not to disturb this magnificent animal.
> 
> If this bull is harvested this year, I just hope that it is by some great guy or gal that has been waiting for the opportunity to hunt this area and was fortunate to draw a tag this year. I'd hate to see someone that has a huge wallet be able to "buy" him.


So his name is Tarzan the Spider bull? When you say his antlers were like the spider bull then was his 7x7 frame nothing but trash?


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## widgeon_whopper (Jul 26, 2008)

I guess he is best known as Spider Bull. We had just called him Tarzan amongst ourselves. 

Last year, the 7x7 that we think is the same bull didn't have all the junk. His main beams were like they are this year, not too long or wide, but all the main point going out horizontal and then curving up.  He was really heavy and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, points on the right side were practically identical. His brow tines crossed just like Spider Bull.


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## tonyr (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is another pic that many of you may not have seen yet. It was taken about three weeks before the archery opener.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Well said fishlakeelkhunter! They better get him quick because who knows how many inches he'll loose if he starts breaking off some of those tines especialy the big kickers that sticks way out. I wouldn't be suprised if he looses some inches. Who knows the bull could already be dead.


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## rugerdogdog (Nov 18, 2007)

Any new news??? Some of my Sevier Co. buddies have been saying that he disappeared. Perhaps crossed over to the Pahvant???


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I think he would have had to gone a loooong way to get to the Pahvant.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

He's still on Monroe...Mossback missed him at 190 yards. It sounds like Doyle's client left the mountain in disgust with himself and won't be back for a while.


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