# Why doesnt the DNR increase swan permits?



## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I've been doing a little number crunching on swans and swan numbers and it got me thinking, why doesn't the state give out more than 2K permits per year?

As per the states own admission 5226 people applied and only 2000 permits were issues. 
http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1702-apply-for-a-swan-hunting-permit-2015.html

During peak swan migration we average around 20,000+ on a low year to just shy of 50,000 on a high year but usually averaging somewhere around high 30k's low 40k's range. 
http://wildlife.utah.gov/waterfowl/swan/swansurvey.php

Im simply trying to wrap my mind around why the state wouldn't allow more tags to be sold, more revenue to be made and more hunters that get to experience of hunting swans in Utah. Even if it were only 500 more tags to be drawn out, that would be an additional 7,500 dollars (not including the 10 dollar application fee) and 500 more memories made in the marshes of Utah, and at minimum making it close to a 50/50 shot at drawing a tag.

thoughts?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I think I read somewhere that the DWR has determined/speculated that giving more than 2000 permits may increase the harvest of trumpeter swans to unacceptable levels (I'll try to find a source for that). I think that's the main reason for the cap of 2000.

I also think they would encounter some pretty big opposition from certain anti-hunting groups if they ever tried to increase permit numbers, which could make it a hard sell to the wildlife board.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I thought the Feds set the # of permits allowed to be sold.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

How much control does the state have on those permit numbers? With the migratory birds act I'm pretty sure permits are determined by a coalition not individual states


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

That makes more sense. Thank you all for your input thus far.


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## Fowl_faith (Aug 27, 2015)

I think they also have to consider the surrounding states permits also.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I email them to find out. i had the email one time and now i cant find it. i will post up when he gets back to me


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

here you go

The number of tags is based on an agreement we have with the Fish and Wildlife Service (Feds) and some swan conservation groups, which stemmed from a series of law suit and a court decision. We can't modify the hunt zone, permit numbers, or season dates until the trumpeter swan population around Yellowstone and Island Park reaches a certain number of breeding pairs. Once that happens, we can begin discussions with the different groups to modify hunting swan. Currently the swan population is about 50-80 pairs short of the goal. It is moving toward the objective though, so hopefully in the not to distant future we will be able to make some changes.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

dkhntrdstn said:


> here you go
> 
> The number of tags is based on an agreement we have with the Fish and Wildlife Service (Feds) and some swan conservation groups, which stemmed from a series of law suit and a court decision. We can't modify the hunt zone, permit numbers, or season dates until the trumpeter swan population around Yellowstone and Island Park reaches a certain number of breeding pairs. Once that happens, we can begin discussions with the different groups to modify hunting swan. Currently the swan population is about 50-80 pairs short of the goal. It is moving toward the objective though, so hopefully in the not to distant future we will be able to make some changes.


Do the trumpeters have to be wild? :mrgreen:


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## cootlover (Sep 26, 2015)

I remember them giving out 2500 permits before when it was free then it went to one buck then 3 ,5 now what is 35 that's crazy


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> here you go
> 
> The number of tags is based on an agreement we have with the Fish and Wildlife Service (Feds) and some swan conservation groups, which stemmed from a series of law suit and a court decision. We can't modify the hunt zone, permit numbers, or season dates until the trumpeter swan population around Yellowstone and Island Park reaches a certain number of breeding pairs. Once that happens, we can begin discussions with the different groups to modify hunting swan. Currently the swan population is about 50-80 pairs short of the goal. It is moving toward the objective though, so hopefully in the not to distant future we will be able to make some changes.


That's good news. At least they are headed in the right direction. Thanks for sharing Dustin..


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

cootlover said:


> I remember them giving out 2500 permits before when it was free then it went to one buck then 3 ,5 now what is 35 that's crazy


i dont ever remember them giving it that many. I do remember when them charging 5 for the app fee. Now they are only 25 not 35


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

JuniorPre 360 said:


> Do the trumpeters have to be wild? :mrgreen:


im pretty sure they do.lol


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Gee LeDouche said:


> That's good news. At least they are headed in the right direction. Thanks for sharing Dustin..


your welcome. i try to learn and stay on top of the swan hunting stuff. it one of my best hunts and i look forward to them every year.


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## cootlover (Sep 26, 2015)

I am talking in late 70,s early 80,s I remember when I was 13 going to the old northern fish and game office it was about the size of a small bathroom in Washington terrace to pick up a post card you had to mail in for a swan tag then they would draw by hand . My dad passed away in July I was going thru his stuff and found a unused swan tag it's a metal strap you clip around the wing pretty cool


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

cootlover said:


> I am talking in late 70,s early 80,s I remember when I was 13 going to the old northern fish and game office it was about the size of a small bathroom in Washington terrace to pick up a post card you had to mail in for a swan tag then they would draw by hand . My dad passed away in July I was going thru his stuff and found a unused swan tag it's a metal strap you clip around the wing pretty cool


I remember seeing a metal strap of my dad.


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## 357bob (Sep 30, 2007)

Sadly enough I have a couple unused metal tags I've hung onto for souveniers


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## BigMac (Feb 12, 2012)

Another why question? Why did they start making you only hunt swan at certen areas? I have not put in for a tag since. I hunt mostly cutler & could kill a swan every year if it was a leagle area.


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## cootlover (Sep 26, 2015)

It use to be state wide then to many trumpeter swans were being killed so they made this hunting zone . Back in the day public shooting grounds was a swan hunters dream. And almost anywhere else I think swan hunting hasn't been the same since the lake flooded back in the 80's and goose hunting for that matter the flight pattern changed. Man Corrine was awesome for honkers back then.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

cootlover said:


> It use to be state wide then to many trumpeter swans were being killed so they made this hunting zone . Back in the day public shooting grounds was a swan hunters dream. And almost anywhere else I think swan hunting hasn't been the same since the lake flooded back in the 80's and goose hunting for that matter the flight pattern changed. Man Corrine was awesome for honkers back then.


yep to many trumpeters was being killed at public and salt creek.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I have heard through the grapevine that Public and Salt Creek will be reopened within the next couple years for swans.. Data analysis received by the DNR has shown that by closing these areas, only .5 trumpeters a have been saved yearly. I would love for these areas to be opened back up!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> I have heard through the grapevine that Public and Salt Creek will be reopened within the next couple years for swans.. Data analysis received by the DNR have shown that by closing these areas, only .5 trumpeters a year have been saved yearly. I would love for these areas to be opened back up!


I dont see it happening but it would be nice if it does. i have been fighting to get it reopended back up


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