# Any Traditional Hunters?



## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Any Trads here? Just curious. I'm a not-too-serious archery hunter, but have been at it a long time. Bought my first bow in 1973. My long time hunting bow, a 70# Howatt Hunter, was a graduation present in 1982. For practice I shoot XX75s, my hunting arrows are Port Orford cedar shafts tipped with 2-blade Zwickey Eskimos. I read Pope's book, "Hunting With The Bow and Arrow", long ago, and made a greenhide quiver as described therein. Here's a photo, complete pass through at close range:










As I said, I'm not serious as I once was. Haven't been out since 2018 due to unavoidable complications, but the extending season has piqued my interest. Just started shooting again and not surprisingly, my bow feels pretty heavy. Hoping it's like the song, "I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm good once as I ever was."


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I dove into the whole trad bow thing head first this year and fully intended to hunt this year's archery season with a really old Ben Pearson Bushmaster that was my grandpas. I had some bad shooting sessions that really shook my confidence early in the hunt that made me shelf the recurve and bust out the compound which I killed a spike elk with. I'm back to practicing with trad gear and getting into a groove again. I believe I'm gonna hunt trad again for deer on the Wasatch extended. Probably with my El cheapo Samick Sage, since that's what I'm jiving with at the moment.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Neat buck!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Yeah, I only saw him broadside so didn't see how narrow he was. Pretty excited, too. He watched me slowly draw from 12 yards.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I just got done shooting a backyard session with the Samick. I feel like I'm finally starting to solidify some good form and a nice, repeatable shot process. Usually when my accuracy and consistency is falling apart i can diagnose the problem now which is usually me failing to maintain constant back tension all the way through the shot. Paddler, if that old 70# Howatt is starting to feel a little heavy maybe you should look at some of the new designs that can probably give you similar speeds with much lower poundage. Omega longbows are some bows that deliver great performance at a very favorable price tag. Here is my cheap Samick Sage.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I chronographed my 525 grain arrows at 190FPS with the dacron string, 205FPS with the Fast Flight. The Fast Flight is hard on old bows so I don't use it anymore. I have a 60# Howatt Hunter in addition to my 70# that I'm sure would do fine. But I'm stubborn and will keep shooting until I get it right. I will restrict my shots to close, 30 yards or less for now.

Martin acquired Howatt many years ago. The Hunter is still a current model, I believe unchanged from the original Howatt design. Guess they knew a good thing when the saw it: 









HUNTER


SPECIFICATIONS AMO LENGTH BRACE HEIGHT MASS WEIGHT DRAW WEIGHTS 62" 6-3/4"- 7-3/4" 2 lbs 3 ozs 35-65 lbs




martinarchery.com





I actually have four Howatt Hunters, a 60#, two 70# and one marked 74# but I think I measured it at 80#. Here are the other three:







:


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Are you sure you are a "not too serious" archery hunter? That is quite the collection you got there and you are shooting the draw weight of an absolute madman! I consider my 55 pounder my "heavy bow". Haha


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Are you sure you are a "not too serious" archery hunter? That is quite the collection you got there and you are shooting the draw weight of an absolute madman! I consider my 55 pounder my "heavy bow". Haha


Well, my goal is to be able to shoot my 70# recurve well when I turn 70. I have about 5 months to get there.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

paddler said:


> Well, my goal is to be able to shoot my 70# recurve well when I turn 70. I have about 5 months to get there.


I like your thinking! I'll try to shoot a 40 lb recurve well when I'm 40. That gives me 2 1/2 years.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I love traditional archery, especially the DIY vibe that goes along with it. I get a lot of satisfaction from making my own arrows from scratch. I'm currently trying to learn how to knap my own heads. I've made a few bows that I've given away and I'm currently trying to finish a 58" longbow for myself.

I'm hunting this year with my newest bow - Bear Super Kodiak 55 lb (serial #01-001) shooting Tamarisk shafts with an internal foot and an outsert to accept screw-on heads = 620 grains.

Problem is that I'm getting older, too. I used to pride myself on my stalking skills, but I just don't have the balance or muscle tone for it anymore. Tree stand seems like cheating to me, but I'm sure giving it some serious thought.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

colorcountrygunner said:


> I like your thinking! I'll try to shoot a 40 lb recurve well when I'm 40. That gives me 2 1/2 years.


I had my wife look at my arrow when I pulled my bow last night. Looks like I'm only drawing to 27.5" or so with the 70# bow. When I was ~40 years old I could hold it at full draw for 30 seconds. Father Time is undefeated, but I think I can get some back.


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

I've been looking at getting into the trad game. What are your recommendations for starter bows/arrows? Would love to be able to put together a kit to get shooting for around or under $500. From what I've seen the Samick Sage is a decent place to start? For arrows, can I use the same carbons I'm shooting now or do I need to invest in a much much heavier set up? I've been considering doing this for my compound anyways.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Isuckathunting said:


> I've been looking at getting into the trad game. What are your recommendations for starter bows/arrows? Would love to be able to put together a kit to get shooting for around or under $500. From what I've seen the Samick Sage is a decent place to start? For arrows, can I use the same carbons I'm shooting now or do I need to invest in a much much heavier set up? I've been considering doing this for my compound anyways.


You can shoot carbons out of a trad bow. Myself and many others do. If you are shooting off of the shelf and not a rest you will need feather fletchings. Plastic vanes don't have enough give and will tear off when they make contact with the shelf. Feather fletchings will offer more steering and correction also, which is somethinf you will want. You are going to need a lighter spine than you would generally shoot out of a compound. Samick Sage is a perfectly good starter bow and is what I rolled with. I would recommend starting with one no heavier than 35 lbs while you learn good form and shooting habits, then upgrade to hunting weight limbs (or another bow that is hunting weight) later. You might say "oh, well I'm strong. I lift weights. Blah blah blah." Doesn't matter. Start light! Or don't and probably teach yourself a bunch of bad habits that will be hard to break. I kind of did this myself. I didn't start with a heavy draw weight, but I tried to move up too quickly I believe and it hurt me. Lots of guys have tried to start out with too heavy of a bow and had less than desirable results.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Get a light Samick Sage and some .700 spine gold tip warrior arrows from 3rivers archery and you will have some basic equipment to get you off to a good start without spending too terribly much. I'm no Tom Clum, and probably not even a Paddler or a Finnegan, but if you have any questions feel free to ask. I may know just enough to help a noob (a slightly noobier noob than myself) get started out.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Isuckathunting said:


> I've been looking at getting into the trad game. What are your recommendations for starter bows/arrows? Would love to be able to put together a kit to get shooting for around or under $500. From what I've seen the Samick Sage is a decent place to start? For arrows, can I use the same carbons I'm shooting now or do I need to invest in a much much heavier set up? I've been considering doing this for my compound anyways.


Well, one can get a used recurve pretty cheap, I think. Pretty sure you could get a name brand in very good condition for $200 or less. There's a Samick Sage on KSL for $65 right now. Or, here's another option, but it may be priced a bit too high:

Martin Damon Howatt Hi-Speed,46#@28",58”amo 

Draw weight is highly variable, depending on your upper body strength. I walked into an archery shop in 1973, Sierra Archery, to select my first bow. I was able to pull a heavier bow, but the owner recommended I just buy a 55# recurve. I overdrew that bow a couple of inches. I think if you were able to handle a 45#-50# bow it could be your forever bow. Up to you. My 55# Red Wing Hunter was pretty lifeless with heavier arrows, but with lighter arrows I killed this buck in 1979. And a couple of rattlesnakes, some bunnies, and other stuff:
























As far as arrows go, lots of options. Your carbons might work, just make sure the spine is close. However, I prefer aluminum as I'm not a believer in light arrows. I think momentum is more important than energy, the latter emphasizes velocity over projectile weight. Momentum is a better predictor of penetration, an arrow typically kills by penetrating to the vitals and cutting blood vessels and/or puncturing the lungs.

But I digress. I use aluminum for practice, but have used wood shafts with my Zwickey Eskimo 2-bladed broadheads for hunting. For a beginner, I think aluminum shafts with a screw in 125 grain broad is about right. That way you could just screw in some 125 gr field points for practice. YMMV, but I recommend a moderate weight arrow.


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

I better start poking around on KSL to see what I can come up with. Thanks for the advice and input guys. I appreciate it.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I've enjoyed hunting with traditional equipment for many years. This pic is on my Kodiak brown bear hunt a few years ago.









I have four or five P&Y mulies but this is my favorite just because of the long and tiring stalk.


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## DreadedBowHunter (Sep 22, 2021)

I got rid of my stickbow a couple years ago before I moved back to Utah. I’ll get another one soon cause my daughter wants a new one too. I got 3 compounds so I need to balance out my collection again with a few new Sticks.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

DreadedBowHunter said:


> I got rid of my stickbow a couple years ago before I moved back to Utah. I’ll get another one soon cause my daughter wants a new one too. I got 3 compounds so I need to balance out my collection again with a few new Sticks.


I have 5 recurves, no compounds. Perfect balance.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

When I started shooting traditional this year, I was thinking I may become a purist there for awhile. But nope. I still loooove my compound.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

After putting meat in my freezer with an archery elk this year with my compound, I was planning on hunting deer during the extended during a couple weekends in the peak of the rut and holding out for a mature buck. Again with my compound. But I have been having so much fun with my recurve lately and have picked up some confidence and turned a corner in my progress lately. Now I think I'm taking the recurve out and having an, "if it's brown, it's down" mentality. I really wanna get on the board with my first trad kill!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Once you learn to shoot a gap and get your form up to par you should see some consistency. Then it gets really fun.


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

I have been dying to go back to traditional archery. Started that was in 1982 cause I was too poor for a compound. Saved up and bought a browning Nomad. My current bow is old enough to be almost considered traditional 😁 Its a 2000 model Hoyt. But I’ve killed 11 bulls, 4 cows and three bucks with it. I think this winter I’m getting a recurve to start playing with. My father in law went old school on his muzzy a few years back. Even bought a flintlock. Awesome! And awesome pics from you guys. I think y’all are my new role models.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Cowboy, you better come back to this thread and tell us all about your new toy. Here is a 60 pound Ben Pearson Hunter manufactured in 1968 that I picked up for about $100 off of ebay. Probably draws closer to 55 pounds at my draw length. I was having issues getting good arrow flight out of it. Couldn't get good arrow flight for the life of me and all my arrows were flying far to the right. I put a Bear weather rest on I had lying around and that helped considerably. I also realized the heavier weight than I had been shooting previously was causing a slight collapse and I have to be more conscious of pulling through the shot with this one. It's kind of a shorty at 58 inches long which it makes it a little trickier to shoot, but I'm a shorter draw guy. It really smokes a 535 grain arrow. I have found I like the old Fred Bear rule of thumb that an arrow that weighs around 10 grains per pound of draw weight is a good weight for a hunting arrow. This will make a great elk setup. I will continue using a 45 pounder for deer and turkeys. How sexy are those black eagle vintage arrows? I have a 45 lb Shakespeare Tioga (also made in 1968) I bought from a guy here in Spanish Fork for $20 I gotta get shooting as well. Man, I love playing with old bows!


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## cowboy (Oct 12, 2021)

I definitely will. Y’all have me all spun up and excited to get a recurve bought. 😁


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Cowboy, you better come back to this thread and tell us all about your new toy. Here is a 60 pound Ben Pearson Hunter manufactured in 1968 that I picked up for about $100 off of ebay. Probably draws closer to 55 pounds at my draw length. I was having issues getting good arrow flight out of it. Couldn't get good arrow flight for the life of me and all my arrows were flying far to the right. I put a Bear weather rest on I had lying around and that helped considerably. I also realized the heavier weight than I had been shooting previously was causing a slight collapse and I have to be more conscious of pulling through the shot with this one. It's kind of a shorty at 58 inches long which it makes it a little trickier to shoot, but I'm a shorter draw guy. It really smokes a 535 grain arrow. I have found I like the old Fred Bear rule of thumb that an arrow that weighs around 10 grains per pound of draw weight is a good weight for a hunting arrow. This will make a great elk setup. I will continue using a 45 pounder for deer and turkeys. How sexy are those black eagle vintage arrows? I have a 45 lb Shakespeare Tioga (also made in 1968) I bought from a guy here in Spanish Fork for $20 I gotta get shooting as well. Man, I love playing with old bows!
> View attachment 150049


Sounds like your arrows are under spined for that bow. Too stiff spined arrows will not bend around the bow as required, so will fly to the left. Too low spined arrows will bend too much, so will go to the right.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

I would love to someday. I have too many hobbies and things at the moment.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

paddler said:


> Sounds like your arrows are under spined for that bow. Too stiff spined arrows will not bend around the bow as required, so will fly to the left. Too low spined arrows will bend too much, so will go to the right.


I played around with a bunch of different tip weights and a couple different spine ratings. Now that I have things straightened out for the most part I have been playing around some more. It looks like 225 grains up front on a 400 spine shaft is in the ballpark right now. The 3 rivers dynamic spine calculator verifies this. I gotta shoot some bare shafts now and get a really good idea of whats happening when they leave the bow.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

rtockstein said:


> I would love to someday. I have too many hobbies and things at the moment.


If you don't have time for trad archery, you are too **** busy!


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## Birdbow (Sep 22, 2009)

I’ve been heavily into traditional archery since I started making my own bows in 2003. I make 10-20 bows a year and shoot everyday. I like carbon arrows with brass inserts over wood and aluminum. For those looking to get into traditional archery there’s a lot of good info on YouTube, and several good podcasts that are worth checking out. My recommendation to someone starting out is to get a light bow around 40# and develop good shooting form.


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

My hat is off to all you trad archery hunters. I hunt now with a compound bow equipped with all the bells and whistles (albeit quiet bells and whistles). The achievement isn't the same.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Love this thread, some beautiful bows and critters. I never did understand the whole compound thing. It just seems like another way for someone to drop some $$$ so they can have more hunting opportunities.

A bow is simple, a stick and string. If I want to use triggers, stabilizers, range finders, and sights than I will stick to rifles.

I have basiclly been shooting traditional bows sense I was six but I never tried big game hunting with them. Just shot a lot of rabbits, grouse, squirrels, stumps, and cactus.

Unfortunatley I wheelied a motorcycle over doing about 60mph in the summer of 2017. Broke my collar bone, seperated my AC joint, and tore the rotator cuff all in one shoulder.

Needless to say I walked away from archery for a few years. Than last fall I found a 35# Ben Pearson colt at beaver gun and pawn (the 2nd best gun store in Utah) for $40.00

I put together a dozen cheap port ortford shafts and started pulling a stick again.










It's been about 10 months of shooting this little bow and just focusing on my form and I am just getting to where I can shoot without any pain.

This October I finally decided that next year will be the year that I try to take a cow or spike with my recurve.

Starting in 2022 my plan is to start pulling my 50# recurve again. Before trashing my shoulder I could consistently hit tennis balls at 30 yards and pie plates at 40 yards. My goal is to get back to that level with my bigger recurve before archery elk next year.

There is nothing like hitting your target with a traditional bow when your arrow is falling instead of climbing!!!

My 50# bow was made my an old time bowyer in Brigham city named Sterling Jensen. At one point he held some world records for distance shooting. I had this bow custom made 17 years ago when I was 16.


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