# This is why we can't have nice things



## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

Just saw that DWR closed Middle Fork WMA to camping. I get it. People have trashed the place, but dang it, there goes my April turkey camp spot (shhh....don't tell people my spot). Why can't people just be respectful? Hopefully, this will get things cleaned up.

Also, anyone know any good public land camping spots in Huntsville?  Forest Service sites don't open until May.









Overnight camping closure at Middle Fork WMA extended after unruly 2020, DWR says


Officials from the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources said Monday it will ban most overnight camping at the wildlife management area through Sept. 9.




www.ksl.com


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

People suck unfortunately.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

As I read it just the parking lot and 1/3 mile from it are closed to camping. I think you could put a pack on your back and hike in a ways and be good to go.

Now if it said you couldn't leave a vehicle that could be different. But I didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night.


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## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

middlefork said:


> As I read it just the parking lot and 1/3 mile from it are closed to camping. I think you could put a pack on your back and hike in a ways and be good to go.
> 
> Now if it said you couldn't leave a vehicle that could be different. But I didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night.


That's what I read too, but the vehicle thing is what I'm not sure of. What's not to stop someone from sleeping in their car?


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Sounds like the DWR /Sheriff patrol it on a regular basis anyway. I guess if they found fogged up windows they would do a little more thorough investigation.

In reality is was always supposed to be more of a trailhead than campground. Being as old as I am I need plenty of time to get in there. If I start hiking at midnight what's the problem?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I cant believe the blame for the closure hasn't been blamed on the Trump administration.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

maverick9465 said:


> Just saw that DWR closed Middle Fork WMA to camping. I get it. People have trashed the place, but dang it, there goes my April turkey camp spot (shhh....don't tell people my spot). Why can't people just be respectful? Hopefully, this will get things cleaned up.
> 
> Also, anyone know any good public land camping spots in Huntsville?  Forest Service sites don't open until May.
> 
> ...


I know where I’ll be camping in Huntsville. Lol. 


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Man how stuff like that pisses me off. It's not the normal people who are already into the outdoors though we did have some litter bugs. Personally, I blame all those idiots who would have otherwise been happy in the city, AND all the people from out of state. Even befroe covid, I was seeing a rise of graffitti and vandalism as people move in from out of state. Am I pointing fingers? **** right I am.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Instead of pointing fingers towards that are moving into Utah you really need to look at those that are already living in Utah. 

This kind of stuff has always been going on. From defacing aspen trees to leaving trash all over the place. As the cities grow and people want to get out of the city for a weekend you will find that this will happen more often. I worked on the west side of SLC for a couple of months and all the graffiti and trash was left by locals and this was back in the late 70's and early 80's. It wasn't done by those moving into Utah but those that already lived there. 

I'm not saying that those from other areas won't do it also but the vast majority of it is done by those who lived in Utah all their lives. It is the same in all the states, there just isn't any respect for the outdoors and recreational areas.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It doesn't matter if it is locals or people moving in. Every time I've been there last year there were several camps that looked more like homeless/squatter set ups than people who are using the WMA for recreational purposes. The fact that it doesn't require a fee to camp doesn't help any thing given the surrounding population and other available camping.

The fact it will be available for camping after September 10th (when most of the hunts are taking place} makes sense if the problem is mostly from people just using it for camping.

The problem of messes and unlawful activity on public lands isn't a new problem by any means. Just more noticeable with more people around.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

A subset of every group has no respect for public lands. That's true for locals and tourons. With more people visiting public lands during the pandemic it was inevitable that such behavior would also increase and likely be highly publicized. All that said it's been going on from locals ever since I started exploring. "Locals" have been leaving half melted beer bottles in fire pits, "prayer flags" behind every juniper and unburied cat holes for ages. 

It has nothing to do with where you are from so much as laziness and disrespect for others and the land which no one group has claim to.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

" Every time I've been there last year there were several camps that looked more like homeless/squatter set ups than people who are using the WMA for recreational purposes. " 

This is something I have been seeing more in camping areas near population centers and is a different sociological issue than slobbery and overuse by some despised "other" group. I have come across homeless camps while hiking in Hobble Creek and Provo canyons.


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## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

Catherder said:


> " Every time I've been there last year there were several camps that looked more like homeless/squatter set ups than people who are using the WMA for recreational purposes. "
> 
> This is something I have been seeing more in camping areas near population centers and is a different sociological issue than slobbery and overuse by some despised "other" group. I have come across homeless camps while hiking in Hobble Creek and Provo canyons.


This is exactly the case. It's very clear that there are homeless individuals camping out there, but not sure how you police that. 

One thing the place doesn't have that MAY help would be trashcans. Yes, it'd be great if everyone would pack out what they pack in, but simply having a trashcan there could mitigate some litter. 

While I'm disappointed that I have to make alternate arrangements for turkey season, I'm glad the DWR did this. The place has just gotten trashed over the last few years. I wouldn't mind a overnight camping fee, TBH.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Trash cans don't do any good unless you hire someone to empty them.


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## maverick9465 (Nov 21, 2016)

Critter said:


> Trash cans don't do any good unless you hire someone to empty them.


Yeah, that would need to be part of the deal.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

When people move into an area in large numbers, its not like they change their way of thinking, or habits both good and bad just because they crossed state lines and bought a house or signed a rental contract. Generally speaking, people are products of their enviorment. A hard enviorment will make a hard people, a soft enviorment will make a soft people. What is acceptable in one enviroment, is unacceptable in other. I've seen enough of the world to know this is absolutely true. You transplant a bunch of people from another area with it's own culture, and idea of what is ethical or accetpable, and in the end, you'll real what they sow. 

Aside from that, as the population rises, percentage of everything that is bad will rise too. It's just how it is, and going along those lines, as the population rises, the quality of life WILL go down and the cost of living WILL go up. We are ALL going to see alot more of this crap. It was already on the rise, Covid kicked it into overdrive, as it did a lot of other things.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Life is much easier when you always think it's someone else's fault other than your own group. Exclude the others and all of your problems just disappear. 

The irony isn't missed when those pointing such fingers are self-admittedly outsiders.

I've lived in enough places and long enough to learn rarely are pervasive problems like this singular in origin. The degradation of public lands is about as multifactorial as it comes. And I've yet to see a solution elegant enough to address it that doesn't become expensive or very exclusive.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Whining on an online outdoor forum doesn't solve the problem. 

I recommend that we get a bunch of UWN members together and clean the place up. Cook some hot dogs, tell some stories.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

wyogoob said:


> Whining on an online outdoor forum doesn't solve the problem.
> 
> I recommend that we get a bunch of UWN members together and clean the place up. Cook some hot dogs, tell some stories.


I’d be in on that. 


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Sounds like a decent way to get some DH hours. Probably wouldn't be hard to get it as an approved project.

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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Currently closed to all access so I can't say for sure but my guess it was pretty well cleaned up late last fall. Still would not hurt to try and plan something.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

wyogoob said:


> Whining on an online outdoor forum doesn't solve the problem.
> 
> I recommend that we get a bunch of UWN members together and clean the place up. Cook some hot dogs, tell some stories.


Sounds great - I'll bring the garbage bags!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I participated in a similar cleanup out West of Utah Lake a couple of years ago. Spent the day out there cleaning up crap left behind from target shooters. The whole thing was organized by Sportsman's Warehouse. We managed to fill an entire 30yd roll off.

Went out to do some shooting a couple of weekends later and it looked like we had never been there. Pretty discouraging.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> I cant believe the blame for the closure hasn't been blamed on the Trump administration.


Why would one need to state the obvious?


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## Dexter (Sep 23, 2018)

I've been horseback riding this area for the last 4/5 years. All spring, summer and fall. This area has increased in activity dramatically each year. Each year the trash on the trails gets worse. Each year the dirty campers have increased, it doesn't help that it's free for camping. People have dogs that are not leashed, their dogs are barking and spooking the horses causing wrecks. It's a very easy place to visit locally and a very nice hike, so I can see why the activity has increased. A fee to camp wouldn't hurt, if anything it would help. People need to be respectful to others and pick up and pack out their trash.


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