# 28 gauge shotguns



## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

I am posting this here and the gun section. I am interested in learning more about 28 gauges. I believe there are a few folks on here that have talked about using them. I have heard that 28's are the best patterning gauge there is. I understand the recoild is only slightly more than a 410 (maybe less with a semi auto, not sure of any semi auto 410's) and pattern and therefore kill much better than a 410. Would like to know more. 

I am specifically interested in one of these as a youth gun in a semi auto. My oldest daughter will hopefully be hunting herself with me in the next year or two, or as soon as she is ready. I want a light recoil shooting, but effective shotgun for her to start out with and pass on to her sisters as she gets older. I know there are a few semi auto 28's out there, but not finding a lot of info on them, especially youth models. I know steel shot for these is pretty crazy price wise, but I want to do everything to provide her with a great experience starting out, and if spending a little more info for a gun and ammo is what it takes, I guess so be it. I have time to save up if needed. This would be for ducks, pheasants, etc..

Thanks for any info you can share on available 28's, their effectiveness, etc...


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

WELL, first let me say that I don't think a .410 or a 28g is appropriate for kids/new shooters, except maybe to learn the really,really basic stuff, like safe gun handling. That said, a 28 is wayyy better than the .410 because it is (unlike, the ,410) moderately effective in a beginner's hands. The 410 and 28 are for advanced shooters. I think really light loads in a 20 gage is the best beginner's choice. But, check out the Franchi AL 48 in both 28 and 20, they are sweet handling automatics. They are both very light, small frame guns. I would go for the 20 if your daughter can swing it, but if not, the 28 would be a nice choice. Although, I predict it won't be long before it becomes your own go-to grouse gun.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Look into a Mossberg Bantam shotgun for youth. It is a 20GA and has a stock you can shorten / lengthen via stock shims (they match the conture of the stock). They come with a shorter barrel which results in lower velocities and less kick. My boy shoots it much better than my double barrel .410

-DallanC


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

http://utahbirddogs.com/forum/viewtopic ... 15&t=12274

Franchi 48, 28 g.


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Trooper said:


> WELL, first let me say that I don't think a .410 or a 28g is appropriate for kids/new shooters, except maybe to learn the really,really basic stuff, like safe gun handling.


I think I probably understand what you are meaning, but will you please explain "the why or why not" a little more?


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

Travis - go to Gallensons or go online and buy a Franchi 48 AL in 28 gauge. I own one and think it is about the best gauge of shotgun you can buy. Then go buy a case of cheap estate lead shot and a couple cases of clay pigeons. Get your daughter to the point that she can consistently break clays the majority of the time. 

I did this with all of my boys and each one of them shot their first duck with one shot.

A 28 gauge is an excellent gauge for your daughter. What I am using to qualify my statement is I know you are much more than an average waterfowler - and will use the gun to teach your daughter to only shoot at birds that are in range. In range for a 28 gauge is probably 20 yards. 

The beauty of the smaller gauge guns is their more efficiently use of the shot. It places a smaller - more tight shot cone and if a bird is in range and the shot well placed - the bird is going to be dead. I have never bought steel shot for my 28 gauge as I have never found it locally, and I keep loosing my plug as I take it out for upland game hunting - but want to buy a case and give it a go. I wouldn't be afraid to use it on all waterfowl with the exception of swans and geese. 

I use my 28 gauge on chukars, grouse and pheasants. When I pull out my little gun others just give me a dirty look - until they see it in action. It is by far my most deadly shooting machine. If I remember correctly I think I saw pictures of you on a Dakota pheasant hunt. That 28 gauge will flat out hammer a rooster that is in range.

Good pick for a young shooter.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I have a couple of 28 gauge shotguns, and do a 28 gauge ice hunt each year. But, I think you're better off with a 20 gauge. Ammunition is much less expensive and somewhat more effective. Steel shot in a 28 gauge is a 5/8 ounce load and ~$14/box, 3/4 ounce in 20 gauge and ~$7/box. Either will kill ducks to about 25 yards, the 20 may be okay with steel #6s to 30 yards. Recoil won't be much different.

kitten is incorrect about a tighter shot cone. Patterns are a function of choke, not gauge. People say that the 28 gauge loads are "square", and so possess some mystical quality that makes them pattern beautifully. Not true. Just look at a 28 gauge wad, the shot column length is 2X-3X it's diameter. 

I saw a nice little 20 gauge Beretta 686 SP I the other day that weighed 6#. That's a gun your daughter could shoot for the rest of her life. Don't get me wrong, the 28 is really nice. The 20 gauge is a better choice for a first gun.


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## kev (Feb 7, 2008)

Another vote for the 20ga. I used a 28ga once on waterfowl (thanks again paddler). Very fun. Very, very difficult and most definetly not for beginners IMHO. The biggest thing was range, we really had to be picky. I would say 15 yards is max with steel shot. There just aren't a lot of pellets there to put on target and they aren't very big meaning a very small amount of energy transfered to the target. I'm not a great shot, but I can hold my own. There were a couple birds that I know I hit squarely (bird tumbled from the air and hit the ice), only to get up and fly off and not go down later. Not that lack of birds in the bag is a big deal, but it could lead to frustration, and lets be honest, if your not putting birds in the boat it's a realitively dull game, even for the most romantic amoung us. A 20ga simply ups the odds of success.
That coupled with the price and realitive unavailability of guns and ammo, I'd have to vote again for the 20. 
If it were me, I'd get a good 20ga. TJ used a Remington 700 for years (you can borrow it and try it if you want). Invest a little bit in a couple of different light loads for the 20. There are some youth/lady loads out there, along with some 50% reduced recoil loads (lead shot for practice). When she's big enough to handle the gun safely, let here raise heck on some old vegetables and other stuff that blows up. The distraction along with the low recoil will get her comfortable with the gun. Slowly incorporate a few low recoil light steel loads into the target practice and after a while she won't even notice.
I started Hoppy out that way with the 12ga and he never looked back. Now he shoots my 10ga at whatever I'll let him shoot it at and loves it, and he's still under 100lbs and only 5' maybe.
Just my two cents.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

One MORE vote for the twenty. Here's my two reasons...

1. If you think the 28 will have less recoil your wrong. I shot a 28 auto loader (Franchi) and it was just as punchy as any of my 20 bores!

2. Have you considered the price AND availability of shells? Study up on that and I think you'll see the beauty of the 20 ga as an all around better choice!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Don't listen to Kevin, he just fringed those birds. The *5/8* ounce load of steel *6s* in the 28 gauge has *198* pellets, vs *212* pellets for the *1 1/8* ounce load of* 4s*, or *175* pellets in the *1 1/8* ounce load of *3s*. The chart tells me that 6s have 1.8ft-lbs of energy at 30 yards, I estimate the effective range of the 28 at 25 yards, maybe even a bit further.

It's almost time for the 3d Annual 28 Gauge Ice Hunt! Here are some photos from previous hunts.:

2010:










2011:














































I didn't make it out in January of this year with the 28, but hope to before 2013.


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

Doc - I think you are cool beans and Tex I think your a pretty cool dude as well (and love looking at that huge drake mallard you mounted for me everyday) but I am going to disagree with both of you - a little. My comment on the shot cone is based on what I have read and experienced. 

Enough said about that.

20 gauges are my main go to gauge for waterfowl. Sure I own a number of 12 Gauge 3 1/2 guns - but am quickly tiring of them. 

My thoughts on the 28 gauge is based on how feather light my gun is - and yes 20 gauge's can be super light - just not as light as my gun.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I think a 28 ga would be really fun to hunt with. Practically speaking, though, a 20 seems to be the best choice for a beginner (cost, shells, ect). I shoot a Franchi Affinity 20 ga for both ducks and geese..very deadly, very low recoil, fairly quiet, and darn fun to shoot.
R


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

The 28 GA shotgun with steel shot will kill ducks cleanly out to about 30 yards. I know this to be true because I have used a side X side and semi-auto 28 GA shotgun and have killed mallards (semi-auto) and teal (S X S) out to this distance. I know one individual who actually killed a swan with a 28 GA pump at about 25 yards (head shot only).


















Twenty eight gauge shotguns CAN be used effectively on waterfowl in the hands of experienced shooters.

That said, I would not recommend a 28 GA for use by a novice, youth or otherwise. You'll want to get your daughter shooting something that she will enjoy shooting and will not break the bank. The 28 GA shotshells will cost you anywhere from 25 to 75 percent more than 20 GA in both lead and steel. It can be proven mathematically that 20 GA shells will ALWAYS produce more recoil than 28 GA, but there are factors you can employ that will lessen the recoil of any 20 GA to the point that they are almost as comfortable to shoot as the 28 GA. There are many brands and types of shotguns in 20 GA that are already made specifically for youth with an ability to modify as the youth grows. The 28 GA youth models are rare indeed.

It's your money and your decision. But take it from someone who has shot close to a million competition and hunting rounds over a the last 50 years, the 20 GA is a better choice for your daughter.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Yep, dubob, I agree on all counts. But, the difference in recoil depends on the load you shoot. In the same weight gun, the difference in recoil between the 28 gauge, 5/8 ounce WW Expert load at 1300FPS, and the same load in 20 gauge, which is 3/4 ounce, won't be very noticeable. If you shoot the 3" 20 gauge loads, that may change.

I just bought a circa 1968 20 gauge Beretta BL-4, which was the predecessor to the 680 series of O/Us. It's in 99+% condition; the typical story of being locked up in a safe for years on end. Found it on KSL, which has now suspended guns ads. This thing has fixed chokes, IC/M, which I prefer, a Prince of Wales grip, which is very nice, and weighs just 5# 14 ounces. You'd swear it was lighter, as it's incredibly lively. Double guns concentrate the mass between your hands, so have a low moment of inertia. This thing is a wand. I'll have it on the ice this year for sure.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

Wow I always love these threads about the 28. You always get the “it’s for experts”, “it has to small of a payload”, “It cost too much to shoot”, “it can’t kill past”……blah blah blah!

If it’s for experts they why is it whenever I put one in the hands of a newbie or experienced shooter they either do as well with it, or better then the gun they were shooting with when shooting clay’s?

Yes the initial cost of getting into shooting a 28 is expensive but if you are willing to reload for one you find the cost comes down very quickly. By the time you start adding up the cost of less shot and powder for reloading it gets far cheaper then 12 or 20 quick.

If it can’t kill past x number of yards then I guess I need to tell the thousands of birds including doves, quail, pheasants, pine hen, sage hen, ducks, geese and the swan this year that they are really not dead because I didn’t shoot them with a 28 and out to ranges of 50 yards. (yep this is where you can call me unethical for shooting to such distances at birds with such a little bore and payload).

Tshuntin don’t buy into all the crap that gets said about a 28 as it is a very capable gauge and the one my kids will be starting with. Whatever you do just be sure to do it the right way and find a gun that first fits her (have it fitted by an expert if you can), then find a load that has as little recoil as possible, next spend the time and money letting her get all the practice she can shooting it at moving targets so that when she does get to go out with you and pull the trigger on a live bird, she will be putting the shot swarm on the bird where its needs to be because she is solid in the fundamentals, shooting a gun that fits and not flinching because she is getting pounded by the gun and load. 

Good luck to both you and her in this adventure and be sure fully enjoy getting to share this wonderful sport with her!


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks everyone very much for your comments. I really appreciate it and keep them coming if you have any opinions, advice, expertise to ad. 

My reasoning for the 28 was two-fold. First I wanted the very lightest recoil possible while still having an effective killing capacity. I do not mind paying for the the ammo of the 28 if it helped my kids to have a better experience, although I don't want to if I don't have to. Second I was under the impression that the ballistics/pattern/shot cone/etc/whatever... was far superior to the 20 gauge.

It does not sound like the 28 is really that much superior, if at all superior in anything to the 20. I think a 28 would be way fun to have in my safe and use once in a while, but it doesn't sound like I would really be getting any sort of benefit of it over a 20, especially for my kids. Plus, it looks like finding a youth semi in 28 is going to be more than tough. So I am sure a semi auto youth 20 would have to have less recoil than than a 28 SXS or OU. There is an Akkar brand or something that makes a 28 youth semi, but don't know anything about that and doesn't sound like there is any reason to look that way. 

So next question, what youth semi auto 20 gauge?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Felt recoil is mostly related to the load and the weight of the gun. A 20 will kick more than a 28.

see: http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

A shot cone is dependent on the combination of many things; gauge, barrel length, choke, load, amount of shot, type of wad, type of shot, shape of shot, other things.

I always loved a 28 for upland game birds, using lead of course. For years there wasn't much variety out there for 28 ga non-toxic shot and the prices were very high. Now there's the Classic Doubles non-toxic 28 ga ammo that is really good for waterfowl over dekes, but they are pricey too. As much as I love the 28 I wouldn't make it a young hunters first gun for reasons already noted. Just my 2 cents.

Here's one you don't see very often; a stock 28 ga Youth Remington 870 with mahogany wood from around 1972:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Your link doesn't work for some reason Goob. ;-)

Cool pic on the brush boomers. Very nice. Great color in that pic. Love it.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Your link doesn't work for some reason Goob. ;-)
> 
> Cool pic on the brush boomers. Very nice. Great color in that pic. Love it.


Thanks. I put up the correct link for the shotgun recoil table.


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## Gaston (Dec 6, 2008)

I bought both the Franchi 620 and Benelli Montefeltro for my daughters in the 20. Both have been great guns but of course I give the nod to the Montefeltro (bought it with the youth stock but conveniently bought the adult stock too  ). There was a $500 price difference between the 620 and the Montefeltro.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Check these out. I bought a 20 guage. Very nice shotgun.http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/redhead-103-d-mini/


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

Travis - look - here is a link to a website that you could go to and buy a case of 28 gauge 6 steel shot for $119. http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/winc ... -1819.html

Here is a link to a Franchi 48 AL 28 gauge: http://www.gunsamerica.com/958462689/Fr ... e_28ga.htm

What do I like about my 28 gauge - the recoil and featherweight. What scares my wife and daughter about my shotguns ---- recoil. They both love my 28 gauge. It has such minimal recoil. A person will shoot better in my experience if they can focus on the target instead of gritting their teeth waiting for the recoil.

Another option is a franchi 48AL in 20 - but it only comes with a 2 3/4" chamber. I think if your going to go with a 20 it will defeat your purpose. Because they come in 3" you might be tempted to buy it and then you could scare your daughter away.....

I personally think the 28 gauge option is perfect for what you are trying to accomplish. I love my 28 so much that I am thinking about buying another in the form of an AYA SxS. I just flat out love the gauge. Stick to your "guns" - buy what you already set your mind on. I guarentee your daughter will love it.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

On the subject of recoil, I don't think you will notice the difference between 11ft-lbs in the 28 gauge vs 14ft-lbs for the 20 gauge. They're about half the recoil from my 12 gauge, which yields 24ft-lbs.

Either gauge will be ideal for your daughter. Reloading the 28 will really cut down on your ammo costs, too. I bought a case each of WWAA target loads (#8) and the WW Expert steel 6s. Both loads use the WWAA HS hull, which are supposed to last for 10 reloads. I load lead 7s for chukar, and they work well. Unfortunately, I don't think you can buy a steel wad in 28. You can in 16 gauge, and I figure you can load 7/8 ounce steel loads in 16 gauge for $7-$8/box. That's great, because 16 gauge steel runs $19/box.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> On the subject of recoil, I don't think you will notice the difference between 11ft-lbs in the 28 gauge vs 14ft-lbs for the 20 gauge. They're about half the recoil from my 12 gauge, which yields 24ft-lbs.
> 
> Either gauge will be ideal for your daughter. Reloading the 28 will really cut down on your ammo costs, too. I bought a case each of WWAA target loads (#8) and the WW Expert steel 6s. Both loads use the WWAA HS hull, which are supposed to last for 10 reloads. I load lead 7s for chukar, and they work well. Unfortunately, I don't think you can buy a steel wad in 28. You can in 16 gauge, and I figure you can load 7/8 ounce steel loads in 16 gauge for $7-$8/box. That's great, because 16 gauge steel runs $19/box.


Doc as I am not on my computer I don't have the link for you but BPI (ballistic products) makes a TPS wad for steel and tungsten shot now along with recipes for loading them.

Live from somewhere beneath the desert and brought to you via Tapatalk


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks, HH. I thought they told me a couple of weeks ago that 28 gauge wads for steel weren't available, but I misunderstood. The TPS series includes the 28, but not 16 gauge. The PT (formerly VP) wads are available in 16 gauge, but not 28. Confusing.

I may order some of each, but I have a lot of factory 28 and 20 gauge WW Experts on hand.


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## Holeinmywaders (Sep 28, 2011)

Kinda late on this thread but I am going to add my 2 cents. 

This year I started my 9 yo daughter shooting clays. I was not real sure if she was going to like it so I just looked for the cheapest 20ga I could find. I got a used pardner pump and found out she really enjoys shooting it. She handles it real good and is progressing well on the trap range. The only time I ever heard her complain about recoil was using 3in mags and she was cold that day and generally not feeling well. She shoots 50 shells once a week. Never seen a bruise or heard a complaint about it.


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks again for further comments.

I do like the idea of the 28 still, but for a youth model, it looks like it will be difficult to even find one that would work in youth size. So I think a 20 will be the way to go.

These look like they would be an awesome waterfowl load for a 28 gauge. Is $3.15 per shell a lot though?? WOW! http://www.cabelas.com/product/Home/Hev ... t216179280


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

There are many guys who tout the exotic loads for the sub gauges. They say that Hevi Shot or ITX or Nice Shot gives the 28 performance on par with the larger gauges. And they have a point, those loads will perform better than #6 steel. As you say, though, those loads are expensive. If I want the downrange performance of a 12 gauge, I'll shoot a 12. Part of the fun of using the sub gauge guns is recognizing their limitations and staying within them. You need to be selective when your payload is 5/8 ounces of 6s at 1325FPS, but that just makes it more fun. Paying $3.15 per shell is no fun. Get a 20 gauge, go to Wal Mart and pick up those steel 6s for $6.47/box, and teach your daughter to hunt.


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## northernborn (Jan 2, 2013)

the 28 is a fine choice for anyone, swing and lead is swing and lead regardless of gauge, also 3/4 oz or 1 oz is 1 oz but in a 28 the 1 oz load is a little stiff, that in a heavier 12 is a puffer load. but the lighter 28 guns are nice for kids and small framed people.

I wont get into the why and wherefor of the 28 ga having best patterns, those who don't know about patterns probably don't care and those who already know, well, already know. Suffice it to say that length of pattern and width of pattern ratio once were more impotant than how long a shell was or how many fancy pellets could be sent down range to increase skybusting. I have not been online in years but its like I just walked out with the same conversations going on still.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Took the new-to-me 20 gauge Beretta BL-4 out recently. Love it. It's 6 oz lighter than my 28s, at 5# 14oz, the WW Expert load is 3/4 oz of 6s @ $6.50/ box vs 5/8 oz @ $14/box. And, it's very effective when you're on the bird. My second pintail dropped like a stone. All things considered, the 20 makes more sense than the 28.:


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