# 220 grainers from a .30-06?



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Does anybody have any experience with this heavy of a bullet on from an '06? Remington produces one in the core lokt and Federal has one its power shok line. It looks like they start out at about 2400 fps. I'm curious what the trajectory would be like out to about 300 or so yards. Do you think they would buy you anything over the 180 grain standard soft point bullets on steep angling shots or encounters with heavy bone? I know a light, little 150 in a Barnes TTSX will penetrate as good as about anything out there, but a 220 grain core lokt could be pretty cheap insurance on a less than ideal shot rather than the spendier premiums. I'm not too terribly worried about long distance shots so the "rainbow trajectory" wouldn't be a huge deterrent to me over lighter premiums. This would be for elk too as I realize there would definitely be no benefit from a bullet this heavy on deer-sized game.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

I have 3 boxes of the Barnes in 150 on the shelf and won't use anything else, they just plain work too well to switch to a different bullet. Almost 90% of the lead retrieved from carcasses retained 140 grains or more after going through the animal, that's pretty dang good for penetration. Not to mention they are very easy to shoot and shoot accurately.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I've hunted with 220 grain in my 30-06. They shoot well enough. Out to about 250 yards, they'll shoot about as flat as any other round. That is, close enough that there is no practical difference for hunting purposes. Anything you hit with a 220 grain bullet you would also hit with a 150 grain bullet and they'd both be dead. 

I am not a long range guy. I don't shoot over 300 yards because I do not have the ability to do so accurately. So within my shooting distances, bullet weight is really a wash with kill power and accuracy, I toyed around with what round my rifle likes the best. I tried a dozen different factory loads, and as many hand loads I put together. And my 30-06 on a sporterized mauser action likes Federal's Super X in 180 grain, right off the shelf better than anything else. So that is what I shoot now, and have for the past 10 years. 

So my suggestion is just find what works with your rifle and go with it.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> I've hunted with 220 grain in my 30-06. They shoot well enough. Out to about 250 yards, they'll shoot about as flat as any other round. That is, close enough that there is no practical difference for hunting purposes. *Anything you hit with a 220 grain bullet you would also hit with a 150 grain bullet and they'd both be dead. *
> 
> I am not a long range guy. I don't shoot over 300 yards because I do not have the ability to do so accurately. So within my shooting distances, bullet weight is really a wash with kill power and accuracy, I toyed around with what round my rifle likes the best. I tried a dozen different factory loads, and as many hand loads I put together. And my 30-06 on a sporterized mauser action likes Federal's Super X in 180 grain, right off the shelf better than anything else. So that is what I shoot now, and have for the past 10 years.
> 
> So my suggestion is just find what works with your rifle and go with it.


I agree with you on the bolded and underlined statement on your standard broadside shot, but I'm wondering more about say a sharp quartering towards you shot where you have to crash through some shoulder bone to get to the vitals. Might a 220 grain make its way in there when a 150 grain might just blow up? Can a 220 grain bullet make the difference on shots when a 180 grain cup and core would have failed?


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Some great links here on weight retention, some are after going through bone https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=30-06+150+grain+barnes+tsx+retained+weight


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Out to 300 yards, there will be no difference in how the bullet can kill an animal. About 99% of all the discussions are nothing more than marketing to convince you to buy a product. Truth is, out to 300 yards, the differences are about like trying to pick the fly crap out of the pepper. 

One of my hunting mentors swore by a 200 grain cup and core bullet out of a 30-06. He hunted a non-modified, WW2 1903 Springfield, with open sights. Just like he learned to shoot in the Marine Corps in WW2. And he claimed to never have had an elk, deer, or bear walk away when hit. His idea, and there is science behind it, is that on big game animals, it is the shock value that drops them. And so the bigger the bullet, the more the shock value. Fair enough. 

You can find an article to support whatever bullet weight and design you want. But pretty much the bottom line of them all - out to 300 yards, it won't matter. Whichever you can shoot the most accurately is the best bullet. My own experience, which isn't much in any kind of expert - I have a REALLY low shooting cred score admittedly - but I've never had an animal walk away because I used the wrong bullet weight. I've had plenty run away because I missed. But ones I hit have gone down, and that is using a variety of bullet sizes over the years in the same rifle. I'm just one guy, that has only killed 15 big game animals (4 species in 3 states if you're keeping cred score ;-) ). Which really translates to me being as full of crap as the next guy.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Check this out... a little comparison that I had already done for 150, 165, 180, and 200gr bullets for the .30-06. Adding the 220gr was pretty easy.

In terms of "energy" the 180, 200, and 220gr bullets both carry a pretty comparable amount of energy. These three bullet weights both carry the energy much better than the 150 or 165gr bullets.
In terms of trajectory, the 180gr bullet has a trajectory that is equal to or flatter than the 150 or 165gr bullets. The 200gr bullet drops off slightly while the 220gr bullet really drops off.

This is just my opinion... I think that the 180gr bullet is the optimum for the .30-06... you get comparable energy to the heavier bullets (200 & 220gr) but trajectory of the lighter bullets (150 & 165gr).


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

.30-06-hunter, I've heard a lot about the awesome penetrating capabilities of the Barnes bullets. I'm seriously thinking about trying your 150 grain TTSX load out for myself. Have you tried that bullet in other weights? The only weight I have tried it in is the 180 and the accuracy left a lot to be desired. The rifle I shot them out of was a Remington 742 autoloader which isn't very accurate to begin with anyway. I figure that the length of the all copper bullets in a big 180 might have had something to do with it also. I know with the Barnes it is good to use a lighter bullet anyway to keep the velocity up for good expansion on those tough bullets. I'm gonna try some 150s out someday and if they shoot well out of my rifle they could very well become my next big game load.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> Out to 300 yards, there will be no difference in how the bullet can kill an animal. About 99% of all the discussions are nothing more than marketing to convince you to buy a product. Truth is, out to 300 yards, the differences are about like trying to pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
> 
> One of my hunting mentors swore by a 200 grain cup and core bullet out of a 30-06. He hunted a non-modified, WW2 1903 Springfield, with open sights. Just like he learned to shoot in the Marine Corps in WW2. And he claimed to never have had an elk, deer, or bear walk away when hit. His idea, and there is science behind it, is that on big game animals, it is the shock value that drops them. And so the bigger the bullet, the more the shock value. Fair enough.
> 
> You can find an article to support whatever bullet weight and design you want. But pretty much the bottom line of them all - out to 300 yards, it won't matter. Whichever you can shoot the most accurately is the best bullet. My own experience, which isn't much in any kind of expert - I have a REALLY low shooting cred score admittedly - but I've never had an animal walk away because I used the wrong bullet weight. I've had plenty run away because I missed. But ones I hit have gone down, and that is using a variety of bullet sizes over the years in the same rifle. I'm just one guy, that has only killed 15 big game animals (4 species in 3 states if you're keeping cred score ;-) ). Which really translates to me being as full of crap as the next guy.


Sorry, Gary Fish, but I don't know if you have a high enough cred score for me to take your opinion seriously.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Check this video out for some Barnes penetration! They sure are some crushing bullets!


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## Mtngoat690 (Oct 29, 2014)

There was a time that the 220 gr. Nosler partitions were my "go to load "for hunting elk in the dark timber. They worked quite well for those less than ideal angles that arose in that type of country. I actually liked the 200 grain versions a tad bit better as far as their on game performance and they seemed to kick a bit less as well. Both weights offered great penetration even when bone was hit. Then I discovered the 35 whelen with the Speer 250's and have never looked back.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Sent you a pm mountain goat.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that if I was looking for a bullet with superior penetration capabilities in a .30 caliber I would go with the 165 or 168 grain Barnes TTSX bullet. 

On my African trip this last May I took a .340 Weatherby shooting 225 grain Barnes TTSX bullets and all 6 of the animals that I killed were done in by that combination with complete penetration on all of them. Granted a .340 isn't a 06 but when you see what those bullets can do you become a believer.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Check this video out for some Barnes penetration! They sure are some crushing bullets!


I actually hadn't watched that video before, pretty impressive testing. Last year before the season started I spent some time at the range shooting a few different 165-180 grain factory loads, best group I could get at 200 yards was 3-4 inches, an 'okay' kill shot but not good enough. Then I started reading up on the various 150 grain offerings and learned about the Barnes TSX ballistic tip, after about 15-20 hours of reading many great reviews by actual hunters I picked up a box. I too was reluctant to shoot a lighter bullet, but the results were nothing short of amazing. Next trip to the range I had holes touching at 200 yards, then took the spike at 236 yards just above the front left shoulder and the calf was through the lungs at 15 yards, both were one shot and likely died before hitting the ground.

I admit I have my bonehead moments on here sometimes, but having seen what the Barnes can do firsthand I will likely never shoot anything else out of my 06 for elk, it just makes sense to stick with them. So give them a try and see how you like them.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

30-06-hunter said:


> I have 3 boxes of the Barnes in 150 on the shelf and won't use anything else, they just plain work too well to switch to a different bullet. Almost 90% of the lead retrieved from carcasses retained 140 grains or more after going through the animal, that's pretty dang good for penetration. Not to mention they are very easy to shoot and shoot accurately.


I didn't know that barnes made lead bullets.
Also, if the bullet went through the animal, how do you know it retained 90%?
Metal detector?

Colorcountry, 
everything I've read about the 30-06. The 165-168 grains, are the best all around bullet.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Sorry, Gary Fish, but I don't know if you have a high enough cred score for me to take your opinion seriously.


And you are very wise in such an assertion. Like I said, I'm as full of crap as the next guy.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> And you are very wise in such an assertion. Like I said, I'm as full of crap as the next guy.


I really wish you wouldnt stand next to me... :mrgreen:

-DallanC


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

barnes still makes their lead barnes orginals in some calibers. 
wish they still made the 300 gr .35 cal barnes orginal. or instead of dropping their .35 cal 250 gr x bullet they had switched it to 250 gr tsx. I know i dont need anything that tough and heavy, but i still want it. you know, for the thunderdicking


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I would just make sure if your going to use the Barnes bullet that you keep your distances 300 and under. That bullet needs a lot of speed to open properly. I wasn't impressed with the 130gr .30cal TTSX at 408 yards out of my daughters .308 even though I had it going a little under 3000 fps. At 408 yards it made a 30cal hole in and 30 cal hole out on a cow elk, which didn't bleed much and managed to go about 100 yards even though the shot was perfectly placed in the pump house.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> .30-06-hunter, I've heard a lot about the awesome penetrating capabilities of the Barnes bullets. I'm seriously thinking about trying your 150 grain TTSX load out for myself. Have you tried that bullet in other weights? The only weight I have tried it in is the 180 and the accuracy left a lot to be desired. The rifle I shot them out of was a Remington 742 autoloader which isn't very accurate to begin with anyway. I figure that the length of the all copper bullets in a big 180 might have had something to do with it also. I know with the Barnes it is good to use a lighter bullet anyway to keep the velocity up for good expansion on those tough bullets. I'm gonna try some 150s out someday and if they shoot well out of my rifle they could very well become my next big game load.


Are you using the original trigger on the 742? They are a shotgun trigger.

.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I would never use a solid copper bullet bigger than 165 in the 30-06. I personally would probably choose 150's. If you want big and slow, try a standard 180 round nose.----SS


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

Springville Shooter said:


> I would never use a solid copper bullet bigger than 165 in the 30-06. I personally would probably choose 150's. If you want big and slow, try a standard 180 round nose.----SS


What about 30 cal Berger Match Hybrids in 150/155gr? They have a thicker jacket (disadvantage?) but combine a secant ogive with easier to reload standard ogive ...


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

SLCHunter said:


> What about 30 cal Berger Match Hybrids in 150/155gr? They have a thicker jacket (disadvantage?) but combine a secant ogive with easier to reload standard ogive ...


With any standard constructed jacketed lead bullet, 125-180+ will work great in a 30-06. If I were looking at the Berger, I would go a bit heavier to take advantage of the better coefficients. If you just want a fast, medium range 150 load, I would go with the Ballistic Tip, SST, or Game King Bullet.

My overall favorite load in the 30-06 is 165 BT or 168 CT ahead of AA-4350 for a velocity of around 2900. -------SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> With any standard constructed jacketed lead bullet, 125-180+ will work great in a 30-06. If I were looking at the Berger, I would go a bit heavier to take advantage of the better coefficients. If you just want a fast, medium range 150 load, I would go with the Ballistic Tip, SST, or Game King Bullet.
> 
> My overall favorite load in the 30-06 is 165 BT or 168 CT ahead of AA-4350 for a velocity of around 2900. -------SS


40 years ago when I shot all the time (and fur prices were sky-high) I tried a variety of 125 grain projectiles in the 30-06. Just never found the right 30-06-125 gr combo.

A 168 grain spitzer in a 30-06 or .308 is hard to beat.

.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I've never messed with them in 30-06, but 125 Nosler BT's shoot great out of my daughters 18" 308 Win. Light recoil and 3000fps using W760 powder.-----SS


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