# Non-Resident fee increase



## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Has anyone seen the new Non-Resident hunting license and permit increases beginning July 1, 2020? These increases will hurt or eliminate a lot of NR hunters.
I tried to add the fee increase chart but could not figure out how to do that here.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

https://www.gohunt.com/read/insider/utah-increases-nonresident-hunting-fees#gs

We haven't had an increase since 2005. It's about time!


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Even as a non-resident, I agree that price increases were in order. Still, 50% increases in a lot of areas is a tough pill to swallow. Sure would have been less sticker shock if they had spaced the increase out over the last decade. They would have made more money that way too. Who knows, maybe the goal is to shock the less committed and get them to drop out of the pool. Or, maybe this is the beginning of them spacing out what they want the non-resident fees to be in 2030.:shock:

What's really going to suck is buying points. I'm going to spend over $200 a year just to buy points. Many of which I may never use in my lifetime. 

Glad I put in to take my niece on the general deer hunt this year instead of next. There's not a general season deer unit in Utah that's worth $398.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Years ago when Montana jumped the price of the NR permit fee for the combo tag. I stopped applying.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

This is the way of the world these days. Gouge nonresidents in the permit fees. Utah is just joining the club finally.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Looks to me like Utah is just trying to keep up with surrounding states. $2,200 for OIL species looks eerily similar to WY, CO fees. $600-700 for a general elk license is what you pay in NM. $1,000 for a LE elk tag, welcome to MT (granted that's for a deer/elk combo license...actually a little less). My above numbers are not perfect (more like close generalizations), so don't lambaste me for not getting the fees exactly right. I stopped applying in MT when they raised their fees - just wasn't worth it to me. I imagine there will be many who do the same thing in UT.

I too wish they would have spaced out the increase more. Why is it necessary to to everything at once? Not to politically hijack this, but instead of trying to fix the whole problem by huge budget cuts (speaking of the national debt), why not attack it incremementally? Say 1% additive cuts annually over 20-30 years ACROSS THE BOARD? Then no one can cry foul and the cuts are small enough to be absorbed without completely shocking the system. Common sense isn't so common though...right?

I do like the NR increases to the OIL species. I have found it interesting over the years that most western states charge a NR 7-10 times what a resident pays for OIL-type tags. Here in UT, it was more like 3 times (example sheep $500 for a resident and $1,500 for a NR). Granted, I think UT charges residents way too much, but at least our fee is now similar to what most other states are in gouging their NRs. -O,--O,-


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

So is a spike elk tag going to be $593.00? Like the general bull tag. Wow.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Utah is just keeping up with the Jones, which actually excludes the Smiths.
I spent almost $450 on Colorado apps this week and we only applied for one tag. A CO deer permit is close to $500 with all the fees and I'd take a UT general season tag over many of the CO deer hunts. 

Hunting has turned into a form of recreation and entertainment. Disneyland is almost $200 for a day. There will always be someone to buy the limited non-resident permits so States don't need to cater to the have nots. 

My out of state hunting trips have been reduced in the past and will be reduced further in the future. I just can't justify spending $1k a year in apps and then an additional $500-2,000 for each tag plus the travel costs- especially when my family get as much enjoyment out of other forms of recreation/entertainment........


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Antlerless elk is still doable. Buck antelope is palatable. Antlerless moose hurts, but for the yield and limited species opportunity, is still not too bad.

LE bull elk...? No longer worth it, not even for San Juan.

Bull moose, same reasons for antlerless.

LE buck deer, no way. 

The other OIL species, same as bull moose if it ever gets important enough, but not likely.

The general buck and bull seasons, off the plate for good. That's unfortunate, because I really enjoyed going back to the motherland to hunt occasionally.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> This is the way of the world these days. Gouge nonresidents in the permit fees. Utah is just joining the club finally.


Actually, this has been the way of the world and Utah for a long time!

In 1955:
Res deer permits--$3.00----Nonres--$5.00.

In 1973:
Res big game license--$5.00---Nonres $75.00.

In 1990:
Res Big Game License--$15----Nonres--$120 (with a Gen deer)
Res LE Buck Deer-------$22----Nonres--$102
Res Buck Antelope rifle-$27----Nonres--$102
Res Bull Elk Gen seas---$30----Nonres--$100
Res Bull Moose----------$202---Nonres--$1002 
Res Bighorn Sheep------$202---Nonres--$1002
Res Buffalo--------------$202---Nonres--$1002
Res RM Goat------------$202----Nonres--NA
(Archery permits were the same price for resident and nonresident)

In 1995:
Res Gen Buck Deer-------$25----Nonres--$198
Res LE Buck Deer---------$48----Nonres--$408
Res Prem LE Buck Deer--$133---Nonres--$508
Res Gen Bull Elk----------$50----Nonres--$328
Res LE Bull Elk------------$135---Nonres--$483
Res Buck Antelope--------$50----Nonres--$233
Res Bull Moose------------$308---Nonres--$1008
Res Bison------------------$408---Nonres--$1008
Res Bighorn---------------$508---Nonres--$1008
Res RM Goat--------------$408---Nonres--NA

In 2005:
Res Gen Buck Deer-------$40-----Nonres--$263
Res LE Buck Deer---------$53-----Nonres--$463
Res Prem LE Buck Deer---$138---Nonres--$563
Res Gen Bull Elk-----------$65----Nonres--$388
Res LE Bull Elk-------------$280---Nonres--$795
Res Bull Moose-------------$308---Nonres--$1513
Res Bison-------------------$408---Nonres--$1513
Res Bighorn----------------$508---Nonres--$1513
Res RM Goat---------------$408---Nonres--$1513

Which brings us up to date!

FWIW, most of the other permits in the years above (special, antlerless, two doe, additional, etc.) were also heavily weighted in favor of residents.)

Many of those increases were without the internet and they weren't so drastic, so we didn't pay that much attention to them. But nonresidents have been gouged for a long time.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

To be honest, I had a difficult time justifying the $280.00 resident LE Elk fee.

And that is probably why I have not had a buck antelope tag in Wyoming since they went past $75.00.

Keeping up with the Jones has kept a lot of Smiths from doing a lot of things. It is a matter of what you feel YOU can justify.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For me I think that the OIL bison tag is almost out the window for me. 

I had planned on hiring a outfitter if I drew so there goes those dollars to the outfitter. Now another non resident may draw and pay the higher fee and hire that outfitter but it won't be on my dime. The way it is now I can go elsewhere and hunt a large ranch and get a guaranteed tag and bison along with them doing most of the work before and after the shot. It's the same reason I quit putting in for bison in Wyoming. 

I have my LL so I'll continue to hunt buck deer and perhaps keep putting in for antelope and LE deer. It's too bad that I can't sell my 21 bison points to someone else.


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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

Critter said:


> For me I think that the OIL bison tag is almost out the window for me.
> 
> I had planned on hiring a outfitter if I drew so there goes those dollars to the outfitter. Now another non resident may draw and pay the higher fee and hire that outfitter but it won't be on my dime. The way it is now I can go elsewhere and hunt a large ranch and get a guaranteed tag and bison along with them doing most of the work before and after the shot. It's the same reason I quit putting in for bison in Wyoming.
> 
> I have my LL so I'll continue to hunt buck deer and perhaps keep putting in for antelope and LE deer. It's too bad that I can't sell my 21 bison points to someone else.


Hang in there Critter! Compared to Arizona, Wyoming and South Dakota Utah's Non resident Bison is reasonable! But I hear, ya, I felt that way about Wyoming non res Moose; but I'm to stubborn to quit!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Fee increases from time to time are just a normal thing, and politically it makes sense to weight the burden onto nonresidents who are not your voting constituents. Even the +45% increases on some of those tags won't really put a dent in the number of applicants. 

Does anybody really think that somebody who has been applying for a decade+ at less than 1% draw odds for a tag that was $1518 is now suddenly going to find that if they are successful paying an extra $682 would just be too much so they'll walk away from all of those precious points?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

johnnycake said:


> Does anybody really think that somebody who has been applying for a decade+ at less than 1% draw odds for a tag that was $1518 is now suddenly going to find that if they are successful paying an extra $682 would just be too much so they'll walk away from all of those precious points?


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## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

I’ve been coming to Utah as a NR for 35+ yrs now, before a license was required to put in for a drawing, deer tag was less than $100 and antlerless elk not much more. Unlike a lot of others it didn’t upset me to HAVE to buy a license, after all if timed right it was every other year, tag increases were minimal as is this one. I quit putting in for deer in 2012 because I was seeing less respectable deer, more spikes and poaching was thru the roof where I hunted. Now I only put in for antlerless elk and will still do so. When tag numbers are reduced, c’est la vie, maybe I don’t draw and get a point, oh well, maybe next year. At what point do I say enough? When I’m too old and unable to hunt or my budget says so, until then I’ll keep putting in and annoy the locals with my presence.:smile:


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

johnnycake said:


> Does anybody really think that somebody who has been applying for a decade+ at less than 1% draw odds for a tag that was $1518 is now suddenly going to find that if they are successful paying an extra $682 would just be too much so they'll walk away from all of those precious points?


Yep, because I have not invested $682 in points for that species...


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Honestly, I don't mind paying what some states want for a non-resident fee for the animals I want to hunt. 

I'm currently a year or two away from a bison tag in South Dakota - sure, it's expensive, but time is money. I'd rather budget and go out to lunch a couple less times a month for a couple years and pay the increased tag fee rather than never getting to experience that adventure!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Critter, HighDesertElk I really doubt that next winter you won't be applying for NR tags in UT (unless you draw them next month). 

Somebody who has more than 15 points has already chosen to stay in the game after a price increase once. They'll do it again.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

johnnycake said:


> Critter, HighDesertElk I really doubt that next winter you won't be applying for NR tags in UT (unless you draw them next month).
> 
> Somebody who has more than 15 points has already chosen to stay in the game after a price increase once. They'll do it again.


There comes a time when you just have to pull the plug. I'm 67 and the odds of me drawing very many more LE or a single OIL tag in Utah are so high that my money will be better off spend elsewhere.

With the DOW cutting the Henry Mountain bison tags down to a bare minimum the odds went out the door for me to draw there. My only hope would be for a number of applicants to be dumb enough to purchase the OTC tags that are proposed for the Wild Horse Bench/Nine Mile hunt where they will loose their bison points and perhaps never even see a bison on their hunt.


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## Stickboy2 (Sep 6, 2019)

That’s a pretty good jump on general deer. I will still be back every 3-4 years. Out of state hunting has always been pricey. The jump on general Elk will for sure discourage any that haven’t already put some time in to locate herds in the past.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

johnnycake said:


> Critter, HighDesertElk I really doubt that next winter you won't be applying for NR tags in UT (unless you draw them next month).
> 
> Somebody who has more than 15 points has already chosen to stay in the game after a price increase once. They'll do it again.


Actually, I won't.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Don't forget all the years it takes applying at $10.00 each time. Add that to the cost of the tag and your paying an additional $250.00 for a OIL. That's if your lucky at hit the lottery.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

And now those application fees are up to $15.00

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Critter said:


> And now those application fees are up to $15.00
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


Hunting isn't like it was many years ago. One would hunt for food and that person wasn't wealthy most likely. Hunting has turned into a "rich mans" outing now.

If I'm lucky enough to draw a GS deer tag this year, I'll shoot the first buck I see and head home. No more head gear hunting for me.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

MWScott72 said:


> Granted, I think UT charges residents way too much, but at least our fee is now similar to what most other states are in gouging their NRs. -O,--O,-


It would be a lot different if they made you fork it all up front like they do in Wyoming.

*Total Upfront costs - $1281.50*

*Feb Deadline $896 (Refund is N/S - $850)*

Application Fee

$5 ($20)

Credit Card Fee

3% ($26)

Big Horn Sheep - $152

Bison - $414

Moose - $152

Mountain Goat $152

*May Deadline $270 (Refund w/ Gen tags as second choice $123)
*

Application Fee

$5 ($40)

Credit Card Fee

3% ($7)

Antelope Doe x2 - $44

Antelope Buck x1 - $37

Deer Doe x2 - $44

Deer Buck x1 - $42

Bull Elk x1 - $57

Cow Elk x1 - $43

*No Deadline $101
*

Small Game / Bird $27

Black Bear $47

Fishing $27

*October Deadline ($14.50)
*

Credit card fee

3%

$7 Moose

$7 Big Horn Sheep

Wyoming with Gen Deer / Elk, Bird/Small game Hunting, Fishing, Black Bear, & points ~ $308.5 a year

*Utah is already about the same $282*

Combo (Small game/bird/fishing) $29

App Fees $80

GS Deer $10

LE Species $10

OIL Species $10

Cow Moose $10

Cow Elk $10

Doe Deer $10

Doe Pronghorn $10

Black Bear $10

Tags - $173

Gen Deer - $40

Gen Elk - $50

Harvest Object Bear - $83


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

High Desert Elk said:


> Actually, I won't.


Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see the number of NR applicants plummet--that would be great for me. But I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Withabow (Sep 18, 2013)

I just filled out my Nevada hunt app and if I draw elk there it will cost me $1200.00. It's the way things have been going for a long time and I don't see it changing, ever. Every state is doing it because they know they can. Shoot, I spend $30.00 for goats, $40.00 for deer and $50.00 for elk just for points each year in Wyoming. By the time I draw my elk tag I will have blown about $600.00 just building points, putting the tag well over a grand. Is it still worth it? Yup.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

It all boils down to what value you put on hunting. If it's that important, you'll spend it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Or look elsewhere where you can actually draw or even just purchase a tag 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I remember reading articles in the 70's about how hunting would be a rich man's sport. 
I have watched it go that direction all along. And it's not going to get better. 
Access has gotten harder to get. Which pushes everyone into the same areas. 

Hunting is a lot different now for sure.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Critter said:


> Or look elsewhere where you can actually draw or even just purchase a tag
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


And that's what UT used to be...


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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

Critter said:


> There comes a time when you just have to pull the plug. I'm 67 and the odds of me drawing very many more LE or a single OIL tag in Utah are so high that my money will be better off spend elsewhere.
> 
> With the DOW cutting the Henry Mountain bison tags down to a bare minimum the odds went out the door for me to draw there. My only hope would be for a number of applicants to be dumb enough to purchase the OTC tags that are proposed for the Wild Horse Bench/Nine Mile hunt where they will loose their bison points and perhaps never even see a bison on their hunt.


Ever think of doing a bison cow hunt in the bookcliffs? with 20 points pretty sure you would draw.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

300 Wby said:


> Ever think of doing a bison cow hunt in the bookcliffs? with 20 points pretty sure you would draw.


I have been putting in for a either sex tag ever since the 60's when I first started hunting. I have thought about a cow tag but a cow just does not interest me at all, I want a bull. I have nothing against those who shoot cows but it just isn't for me.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

As a Utah resident I take pause when applying for Wyoming speed goats. A buck tag is a little bit steep and having to carry that cost on the card for half a year not knowing if you're going to get it is why I don't apply. I'm not saying I won't in the future but currently that 300 some odd dollars is better spent elsewhere. 

I do value the hunt experience but also value meat. For a higher yield animal I'd pay more but I'd also want better odds at being successful. As you can probably guess, I'm more into meat than antlers.

Back to the Utah thing, if I were rich it wouldn't matter the cost because hunting is fun. Realistically time and funds are limited. I've recently started re-evaluating my limited entry plan. My new one is prioritizing both success odds and time waiting. This will give me more options and species to hunt in Utah during a shorter time period.


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## wixxman (Jul 23, 2008)

I have been bow hunting the Dutton close to 20 years as a non resident. With the fee increase and point creep my days hunting Utah are over at age 73. I think you will wee a significate drop in out of state hunters why would I put in for Utah as the number of deer have decreased each year on the Dutton. I feel bad for the businesses in Antimony that are going to loose the money we spent in their stores as it was in the hundred of dollars each year.:sad:


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Withabow said:


> I just filled out my Nevada hunt app and if I draw elk there it will cost me $1200.00. It's the way things have been going for a long time and I don't see it changing, ever. Every state is doing it because they know they can. Shoot, I spend $30.00 for goats, $40.00 for deer and $50.00 for elk just for points each year in Wyoming. By the time I draw my elk tag I will have blown about $600.00 just building points, putting the tag well over a grand. Is it still worth it? Yup.


I'm right there with ya. Leaves you with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach, doesn't it?


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

APD said:


> As a Utah resident I take pause when applying for Wyoming speed goats. A buck tag is a little bit steep and having to carry that cost on the card for half a year not knowing if you're going to get it is why I don't apply. I'm not saying I won't in the future but currently that 300 some odd dollars is better spent elsewhere.


If you put in right before the deadline, they only hold your $$ for about a month and a half before the draw results come out and credit cards are charged. I do agree though that their speed goat tags are getting pricey.


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

What's funny is that EVERY STATE around Utah has prices similar to this in general units.

Utah:
$398.00 for a non-resident Deer tag
$593.00 for a non-resident Elk tag

Idaho:
$351.75 for a non-resident Deer tag
$651.75 for a non-resident Elk tag

Colorado:
$401.83 for non-resident Deer tag
$670.25 for non-resident Elk tag

Nevada:
$240.00 for non-resident Deer tag
$1,200.00 for non-resident Elk tag

Arizona:
$300.00 for non-resident Deer tag
$665.00 for non-resident Elk tag

Montana:
$612.00 for non-resident Deer tag
$884.00 for non-resident Elk tag

Wyoming:
$374.00 for non-resident Deer tag
$692.00 for non-resident Elk tag

Looks like Utah is still cheaper to hunt on general tags, especially elk, than most states.

Now, on the OIL front, I can see the pain.

45% jump up on all OIL tags.

On the LE side, looks like Deer and Elk jumped the most, with Antelope only going up 15%

20-39% jump.

WORKS CITED:
https://www.gohunt.com/read/insider/utah-increases-nonresident-hunting-fees#comment-20265
https://www.azgfd.com/License/
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/all/
https://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/BigGameDatesandFees.aspx
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Apply-or-Buy/License-Fee-List
https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/idaho-2021-nonresident-tag-and-license-fee-increase
http://www.ndow.org/Forms_and_Resources/License_Fees/


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

We got a works cited reference! 

Man, that is impressive. RemingtonCountry wins the Internet today.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> We got a works cited reference!
> 
> Man, that is impressive. RemingtonCountry wins the Internet today.


It's amazing what you can do when you can't go out and do anything fun.

Up until this year, you could go a lot of places in CO OTC and shoot a branch antlered bull for the price of their tag. Now, UT wants to charge the same for a spike? Really?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

RemingtonCountry said:


> What's funny is that EVERY STATE around Utah has prices similar to this in general units.
> 
> Utah:
> $398.00 for a non-resident Deer tag
> ...


Exactly. And this is why I really don't think the number of NR applicants is really going to be significantly impacted by the increase.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

The lower prices Utah used to have compared to neighboring states is why I still applied for general deer points every year in Utah. Now that Utah is higher than Idaho and Wyoming, I will probably apply in one of those states instead. It's been a while, but when I used to hunt Wyoming antlerless tags I regularly saw way better bucks than on the Utah units I hunted. 

Utah will still get my application fees for LE units however. But that's only because I hope to return to Utah one day, and holding high points for all species will be nice if I can pull it off. 

There are clearly a good number of people who are willing to pay $1,000 for an LE elk tag, I'm just not one of those people. $800 was a stretch for me. For $800 I could either pay for a Utah LE elk tag plus still have to get out there and pay for all the other expenses around the hunt, or I could get into a hunting club with a work buddy here and hunt deer for 3 months on private land.


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## wixxman (Jul 23, 2008)

I have a question about redident fees, did they go up as well?


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## wixxman (Jul 23, 2008)

it should read resident fees.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I saw someone post a cost of $408 for a Resident Goat tag but I paid $413 last week. I suspect they did go up some. That, or the DWR wanted that extra $5 to offset the $5 instead of $10 I paid to apply at the Expo...would not surprise me.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

KineKilla said:


> I saw someone post a cost of $408 for a Resident Goat tag but I paid $413 last week. I suspect they did go up some. That, or the DWR wanted that extra $5 to offset the $5 instead of $10 I paid to apply at the Expo...would not surprise me.


Your resident fees didn't go up any, at least yet. This fee increase will not go into effect until 2021. So if someone paid $408 for a goat tag he saved $5.00 somehow.

This is from the Big Game Application book


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Click here for a pdf version of the bill that was passed. License fees start on line 7569 (page 205). Resident fees are not scheduled to change. The increased nonresident fees go into effect July 1, 2020 per lines 10 and 11 of that document.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I believe it is more than fair to suggest resident prices increase on an equal percentage to the NR. Why are NR discriminated against? They already pay 4 to 10 X more than residents. Life is not easier in other states. Making ends meet in other states is no less difficult as Utah and in some states, it is more difficult. Disneyland does not give CA residents a break. Las Vegas does not give special concessions to NV residents.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

KineKilla said:


> I saw someone post a cost of $408 for a Resident Goat tag but I paid $413 last week. I suspect they did go up some. That, or the DWR wanted that extra $5 to offset the $5 instead of $10 I paid to apply at the Expo...would not surprise me.


I posted $405 in post #10, but that was for the year 2005! It went up $5 in 2013 as did ALL the resident tags. I didn't think it was enough to mention it, Sorry!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> I believe it is more than fair to suggest resident prices increase on an equal percentage to the NR. Why are NR discriminated against? They already pay 4 to 10 X more than residents. Life is not easier in other states. Making ends meet in other states is no less difficult as Utah and in some states, it is more difficult. Disneyland does not give CA residents a break. Las Vegas does not give special concessions to NV residents.


The primary reason all states favor residents is because they don't want to encourage residents to hunt outside of the state. They lose federal funds if residents apply or hunt in another state and they want to continue to please the voters in order to gain their support.

Additionally, the UDWR is a public enterprise which manages public assets owned by their customers and they have a responsibility to take care of the owners. Disneyland and Vegas casinos are private enterprises and though they don't cater to the normal customers, you can bet that if one of the owners shows up, he/she will get the red carpet treatment!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

But only getting to hunt once every 3 or 4 years on the avg sucks when you can only hunt your own state with draw odds as they are...


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> I believe it is more than fair to suggest resident prices increase on an equal percentage to the NR.


No.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

High Desert Elk said:


> But only getting to hunt once every 3 or 4 years on the avg sucks when you can only hunt your own state with draw odds as they are...


But public draws aren't the only ways to get big game tags! Landowner tags, depredation tags, CWMU private tags, and even some OTC tags may be available, and there are lots of other hunting opportunities with small game, predators, waterfowl, and varmits. Additionally, you could always use a camera and you don't even need to get a tag for that!


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## Withabow (Sep 18, 2013)

MWScott72 said:


> I'm right there with ya. Leaves you with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach, doesn't it?


Pit in my stomach and a hole in my wallet.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Elkfromabove, well stated but the slap in the face to NR would be less painful if they weren’t discriminated against so blatantly. A 5% or 10% increase across the board would dull the pain considerably. Percentage for the small amount residents currently pay, would not be a significant increase, whereas the same percentage for the amount NR pay could be significant. If residents had their way, they would hunt and fish year round for free.
I understand the disparity between residents and NR fees but it is completely unfair and wrong for the DWR to expect only NR to fund their loss of revenue due to decreased tags or other reasons. We are all in this together.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Until States can agree to lower their NR fees, why should one state give a discount to NRs while the others rake said states' residents over the coals? Why is it OK, for example, for a MT resident to come pay $300 to hunt deer in UT, while a UT resident pays $600 for the same tag in MT (again, my numbers are off, but you get the picture)? I'm all for states lowering their NR fees, but it has to be across the board. Until then, shared suffering is the name of the game. :?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

MWScott72 said:


> Until States can agree to lower their NR fees, why should one state give a discount to NRs while the others rake said states' residents over the coals? Why is it OK, for example, for a MT resident to come pay $300 to hunt deer in UT, while a UT resident pays $600 for the same tag in MT (again, my numbers are off, but you get the picture)? I'm all for states lowering their NR fees, but it has to be across the board. Until then, shared suffering is the name of the game. :?


I've had the thought each time I've read responses wondering what states the people come from that are most passionately criticizing Utah on this change. It would be telling to see how much I have to pay to go hunt in their state, just for a comparison.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

However Utah is the only state in the nation that has a spike hunt for most of the state for the general elk hunt. I can see that hunt taking a hit of non residents leaving it to the residents of Utah. Perhaps the non residents will now flock to the any bull units. But with the tag quotas that Utah sets I don't see any overcrowding in any of the units. All the tags will still be sold.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

MWScott72 said:


> Until States can agree to lower their NR fees, why should one state give a discount to NRs while the others rake said states' residents over the coals? Why is it OK, for example, for a MT resident to come pay $300 to hunt deer in UT, while a UT resident pays $600 for the same tag in MT (again, my numbers are off, but you get the picture)? I'm all for states lowering their NR fees, but it has to be across the board. Until then, shared suffering is the name of the game. :?


I guess it depends on which the state values more, money from tag sales or money from more people coming into the state. Utah had the lowest or nearly lowest prices for general deer and elk of all the western states for a while. If you're coming to the west with no previous experience in a particular area, price will influence where you go. Not a lot of people are going to pay nearly $600 for a spike tag or a tough to fill any bull tag. I'm not likely going to pay nearly $400 for a GS deer tag.

Ultimately, I'm sure the decision makers have put a lot more thought into this than I have, and their objectives are probably different from what I think they should be. If they are trying to make general elk and deer more for the residents than the non-residents, I think they will be successful. They'll still sell all the tags, the ratio of resident to non will just be different.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> I've had the thought each time I've read responses wondering what states the people come from that are most passionately criticizing Utah on this change. It would be telling to see how much I have to pay to go hunt in their state, just for a comparison.


Mine's an apples to oranges comparison being east vs. west. But, you can come get a year license in Alabama for $320. That includes most all game - deer, turkey, hogs, small game, but excludes gators. 10 day trip is about $200.

Of course since public land is so scarce out here, you'll then have to pay someone to get on their land. If you know someone in a hunt club, guest fees are "cheap", $30-$50 a day. Getting in a hunt club is anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars.

All that to say, I don't think it matters where you go. Hunting out of your state is just expensive.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

MWScott72 said:


> Until States can agree to lower their NR fees, why should one state give a discount to NRs while the others rake said states' residents over the coals? Why is it OK, for example, for a MT resident to come pay $300 to hunt deer in UT, while a UT resident pays $600 for the same tag in MT (again, my numbers are off, but you get the picture)? I'm all for states lowering their NR fees, but it has to be across the board. Until then, shared suffering is the name of the game. :?


A resident general deer tag in Montana is $16.

Yes, you read that right.

A non resident Deer combo (combo license and deer tag) is $612. App fees for draw tags are $10-$15 for residents, $75-$80 for non residents.

My hunting license and deer tag for Idaho, with only 3 days fishing, was close to $480.

I could go on and on, but two things remain pretty steady out west: Other states resident fees are less than ours, and non-resident fees are more than ours.

If you don't live here and are asking us to raise our resident prices, kindly sod off :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

willfish4food said:


> All that to say, I don't think it matters where you go. Hunting out of your state is just expensive.


Well said. And I'm not sure it is wrong that it is expensive either. I would love to be able to hunt Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, Arizona and Nevada every year. Even if I had the time, the amount of money it would take is just not feasible for me.

And I don't think Utah is too worried about bringing in out of state hunters to help tourism. Utah breaks its own tourism records virtually every year. This year will be different, obviously, but we'll get back to normal. I don't think the "hotels, gas stations, food, etc" argument is a big deciding factor here. They are getting used either way.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

The way we are going the south half of the State is going to want to charge the north half of the State more to hunt down there.
Just remember to spend your dollars in the counties that did not want to exclude you during all this.


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

Alright, I had more time on my hands.

*Utah:*
$398.00 for a non-resident deer tag
$593.00 for a non-resident elk tag

$40.00 for a resident deer tag
$50.00 for a resident elk tag (Yes, I know there is multiseason but this is just for rifle season.)

Utah residents are paying *90%* less for a deer tag
Utah residents are paying *92%* less for an elk tag

*Idaho:*
$351.75 for a non-resident deer tag
$651.75 for a non-resident elk tag

$24.75 for a resident deer tag
$36.75 for a resident elk tag

Idaho residents are paying *93%* less for a deer tag
Idaho residents are paying *94%* less for an elk tag

*Colorado:*
$401.83 for non-resident deer tag
$670.25 for non-resident elk tag

$40.24 for a resident deer tag
$55.43 for a resident elk tag

Colorado residents are paying *90%* less for a deer tag
Colorado residents are paying *92%* less for an elk tag

*Nevada:*
$240.00 for non-resident deer tag
$1,200.00 for non-resident elk tag

$30.00 for a resident deer tag
$120.00 for a resident elk tag

Nevada residents are paying *88%* less for a deer tag
Nevada residents are paying *90%* less for an elk tag

*Arizona:*
$300.00 for non-resident deer tag
$665.00 for non-resident elk tag

$58.00 for a resident deer hunt permit-tag
$148.00 for a resident elk hunt permit-tag

Arizona residents pay *81%* less for a deer tag
Arizona residents pay *78%* less for an elk tag

*Montana:*
$612.00 for non-resident deer tag
$884.00 for non-resident elk tag

$16.00 for a resident deer tag
$20.00 for a resident elk tag

Montana residents pay *97%* less for a deer tag
Montana residents pay *98%* less for an elk tag

*Wyoming:*
$374.00 for non-resident deer tag
$692.00 for non-resident elk tag

$42.00 for a resident deer tag
$57.00 for a resident elk tag

Wyoming residents pay *89%* less for a deer tag
Wyoming residents pay *92%* less for an elk tag

Websites below for resident tag prices. All percentages are rounded.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/licenses/fees-resident
https://wildlife.utah.gov/licenses/fees.html
https://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/BigGameDatesandFees.aspx
http://www.ndow.org/Forms_and_Resources/License_Fees/
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...-20-Arizona-Hunting-Reguations_WEB_190514.pdf
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/all/
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Apply-or-Buy/License-Fee-List#deer


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

RemingtonCountry said:


> Alright, I had more time on my hands.
> 
> *Utah:*
> $398.00 for a non-resident deer tag
> ...


Utah is still the only state that has a spike elk tag for the general elk hunt. All the other states you can hunt any bull I believe except for Colorado that has a 4pt minimum requirement on their general units. The units that you can shoot a spike are ones that take a number of years to draw and would be considered like Utah's LE units. But the bull tag cost is the same for those units unlike Utah's LE that gouge both the resident and non resident.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Critter said:


> unlike Utah's LE that gouge both the resident and non resident.


Utah's LE elk is a price "Gouge" for both residents and non-residents? Huh.... $300 for a resident and $1000 for a non-resident on an almost assured opportunity to harvest a mature bull is in no way a gouge. A lot better than Colorado's $670 for 1st season rifle hunts where even the best units barely break 50% harvest. Anyone in UT feel that a LE elk hunt isn't worth $300? I'm sure there are some and even the majority of those would gladly hand over the cash for a tag that most likely puts antlers on the wall and 200# of meat in the freezer. I'd wager overall, Utah's LE price is the best bang for the buck in elk hunting- once you draw the tag of course.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> I Disneyland does not give CA residents a break..


Um, actually Disneyland prices are cheaper for Southern Californians. But no way would they do that for Northern Californians. Kind of along the same lines as Shaner's comment above.

Southern Utah is already trying to keep Northern Utah out- simply by trying to NIMBY their management strategies, which cuts thousands of permits each year from every Utahn.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

My biggest question is why does Utah charge two different prices for deer and elk tags? 

You have the general tag price and then the LE tag price. All other states charge the same price for either the general OTC tag or the ones that take years to draw.

I know what the answer is, because they can and hunters will pay it. But it doesn't make any sense or can be justified from what I see.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Critter said:


> My biggest question is why does Utah charge two different prices for deer and elk tags?
> 
> You have the general tag price and then the LE tag price. All other states charge the same price for either the general OTC tag or the ones that take years to draw.
> 
> I know what the answer is, because they can and hunters will pay it. But it doesn't make any sense or can be justified from what I see.


Actually, the UDWR did a price analysis on the tags and by limiting the harvest on units it costs more per animal harvested to manage the units. Some people say there are no costs to raise deer and elk, when there are actual costs to manage. Such as counts, testing, patrolling, etc....

And I have been in meetings where the "value" of the hunt was taken into consideration. A $50 elk tag on a general season unit with low success vs a $300 tag on a unit with very high success. It is a very equitable way of selling the permits. Versus CO where one elk hunt might have 8% success while another has 60% success- yet both cost the non-res $670.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

One thing I find interesting is the application fee verse the tag fee...

If there were no changes to the application fee in the past 25 years, a person would have spent $250 on application fees and then $285 for the actual tag. It's pretty crazy to think that for $535 a person could experience a rifle rut hunt. Sure, there is the whole 2.5 decades to factor into that price. However, every year there are folks that draw with very few points and get to experience some pretty amazing stuff!

#FULLRANDOM


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## wixxman (Jul 23, 2008)

In my post regarding resident fee increase was just that. I was just interested if they raised your fees also. :!:


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Packout said:


> Utah's LE elk is a price "Gouge" for both residents and non-residents? Huh.... $300 for a resident and $1000 for a non-resident on an almost assured opportunity to harvest a mature bull is in no way a gouge. A lot better than Colorado's $670 for 1st season rifle hunts where even the best units barely break 50% harvest. Anyone in UT feel that a LE elk hunt isn't worth $300? I'm sure there are some and even the majority of those would gladly hand over the cash for a tag that most likely puts antlers on the wall and 200# of meat in the freezer. I'd wager overall, Utah's LE price is the best bang for the buck in elk hunting- once you draw the tag of course.


I would subscribe to a 20 year commitment to pay $600 a year to hunt LE units in Utah.

So no.. I don't think the $285 I paid to shoot my bull was a gouge at all.

Now, what I had to pay that darn taxidermist.....


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

RemingtonCountry said:


> Alright, I had more time on my hands.
> 
> *Utah:*
> $398.00 for a non-resident deer tag
> ...


Keep in mind, this is Utah POST change.

Before that it was $298 for deer and $393 for elk.

Utah was only paying 87% less for each - we basically just got in line. Maybe the next thing we will do is follow Idaho's change and gash the non res tag allocation by what, 33% it was?

Also - please include the monstrosities of hunting licenses. That certainly skews the picture.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Just gonna add this-

Idaho Combo Res: $38.75
Idaho Combo Non Res: $240
Idaho Hunting Non Res: $154.75


Utah Res Combo: $38
Utah Non-Res Combo (with fishing): $85 going to $98
Utah Hunting Non Res: $65 going to $72


At minimum in Idaho you have to pay $155, which increases the taxes as well, to even get a tag there. That adds a substantial cost to play in their state.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

After seeing Remington's last foray, I don't think we should let MT residents hunt here....or we should all move to MT. Quite the deal they have for their residents over there!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Just gonna add this-
> 
> Idaho Combo Res: $38.75
> Idaho Combo Non Res: $240
> ...


Am I reading it incorrectly? I thought the nonresident hunting license was $65 and combo license was $85.

Still a deal compared to what other states charge.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> Am I reading it incorrectly? I thought the nonresident hunting license was $65 and combo license was $85.
> 
> Still a deal compared to what other states charge.


Sorry - blundered the hunting vs combo, then hit youth. Fixed. Still very reasonable vs $155-$240


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

RandomElk16 said:


> Keep in mind, this is Utah POST change.
> 
> Before that it was $298 for deer and $393 for elk.
> 
> ...


But, in the other states, you can shoot more than just a cow or spike. The general bull increase is way out of line...


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

High Desert Elk said:


> But, in the other states, you can shoot more than just a cow or spike. The general bull increase is way out of line...


Unless I understand it wrong, can't non-res get any bull tags also? So what's the beef?

I look at it as Utah is one of the few that OFFERS such a great hunt like the spike elk hunt. Those animals aren't worth less from a meat and conservation standpoint than a branch antlered bull.

$251 is a straight freaking bargain for an out of state cow hunt, you won't ever convince me otherwise.

You also can get a multi-season as a non resident. How many states offer that?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I just read the comments on the gohunt thread. The bashing and entitlement is hilarious. 

I also love this one:

"When the non-residents stop coming the residents will be footing the bill.

Not many of them are realizing that in their quest to shut out non-residents and get more tags for themselves. lol

Just wait and see."


Others say it was sneaky to do after the draw, because they didn't read to understand it won't impact this year. Someone even posted the prices around the area that were posted here, and it's ignored. Funny funny stuff. 




Non of these guys complain when they come draw our expo tags for $5.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

RandomElk16 said:


> Non of these guys complain when they come draw our expo tags for $5.


Perhaps it is because it is easier to draw a expo tag than it is any of the other tags for NR's.

As for the multi season tags for non residents, most won't purchase the multi season tag. They have a week off from their jobs and that's it. They don't have the time to come to Utah and spend 3 or 4 weeks hunting elk.

But as I have mentioned I just don't see the two different tiers of prices that Utah has for their deer and elk. Where other states just have one. There are areas in other states where you can put in for years before you draw a tag, just like Utah's LE's but the prices are the same for their general hunts and the ones that take years to draw.

Packout mentioned that it takes more money to run a LE unit. I wonder if that is per hunter or just the unit itself. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of the cost of a general unit vs a LE unit.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Non of these guys complain when they come draw our expo tags for $5.


You do realize that after drawing an expo tag they still have to pay the DWR for the full licence fee fee, right


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

One could argue prices, opportunity, quality etc till the cows come home.

No one is forcing anyone to do something they don't think is worth the price of admission. Last I looked it is the same basic principle in all 50 states.

Will Utah suffer in the future? We will have to wait and see. But history with other states shows there is not much to worry about.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I may sound like a broken record, but I'd be curious where these people that are complaining the most online about the fee increase call home, and then how much it would cost me to go hunt in their state.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> I may sound like a broken record, but I'd be curious where these people that are complaining the most online about the fee increase call home, and then how much it would cost me to go hunt in their state.


NM. But you're not limited to a spike or cow either for a general bull tag (rifle or archery it doesn't matter)...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> NM. But you're not limited to a spike or cow either for a general bull tag (rifle or archery it doesn't matter)...


I was more referring to the gohunt thread mentioned above. Yes, there are differences, but how much?


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Vanilla said:


> I was more referring to the gohunt thread mentioned above. Yes, there are differences, but how much?


Understood. I stay away from gohunt so don't know what verbage is being thrown around.


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## CrayDad (Feb 20, 2020)

When we visit family up by Ririe it's just $15 to fish/crayfish that day. No complaints.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

johnnycake said:


> You do realize that after drawing an expo tag they still have to pay the DWR for the full licence fee fee, right


Yeah - I do. **eyeroll**

Guess what? These people will still put in for expo tags too.

My point was all these people on forums that complain about our prices and our state, then are happy to come in and do things like the expo. Which is a pretty rad opportunity for everyone, especially non res since they have their own draws on there.

We aren't a bad option or overpriced. And if you don't want to come, we don't care.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I know this was mentioned above by someone (sorry, can't remember who) and I don't think it received enough attention. In addition to the cost to pay for the actual permit if you are lucky enough to draw one, there are other costs involved in just being able to apply, or have a chance to buy a permit OTC.

So in Utah, a NR can purchase a combination hunting/fishing license for $85. That is an absolute bargain!

Here is a list of what it would cost me just to buy a fishing license only in the states that touch Utah:

Idaho- $98.25
Wyoming- $102.00 
Colorado- $97.97
Arizona- $55.00 
New Mexico- $56.00 
Nevada- $80.00

These are just for the FISHING licenses, let alone a combination license. Some of the states don't even offer the combination license to NRs. And some of these states require habitat stamps on top of the license fee. Yet you can get a combination license in Utah for $85, and use it to apply two years in a row if you're smart about it.

There really is no reason to be complaining about these cost increases when you compare them to every other state around us. I could hunt AND fish for less in Utah as a NR than it costs to just fish in many other states for Utah residents. This is a giant nothingburger.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

But in Colorado if you draw your big game tag you get a free fishing license.--\\O

I expect that Utah will close their license loophole where you only need it to apply for the draw and change it to where you need that license to hunt. Colorado and Arizona does this that I know.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Yeah - I do. **eyeroll**
> 
> Guess what? These people will still put in for expo tags too.
> 
> ...


I agree entirely. Which is why I have said from my first post here, this won't really impact the number of NRs that apply and hunt in UT.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I wish more states would require the fee amount upfront - put up or shut up type of deal.

Plus, there is a certain credit union in Utah that will give you 3% cash back on a balance transfer to their credit card. Other major credit card companies will give a person three or six months with no interest and an introductory offer. BOOM - apply for all the tags you want, do some balance transfers, wait for the refund, transfer over the refund and pay off the card balance. All-the-while, making interest off of someone else's money. 

Sorry - lately a lot of my posts have been sounding financial advisorish . . .


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

That seems like a lot of effort and work to make a few bucks.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> I know this was mentioned above by someone (sorry, can't remember who) and I don't think it received enough attention. In addition to the cost to pay for the actual permit if you are lucky enough to draw one, there are other costs involved in just being able to apply, or have a chance to buy a permit OTC.
> 
> So in Utah, a NR can purchase a combination hunting/fishing license for $85. That is an absolute bargain!
> 
> ...


Bingo.

Arizona was mentioned for elk. Sure, all their tags are the same price. $665 plus their $160 hunting license. So you are at $825 to hunt elk there.

Yes, our LE will be more money now. We also have a general elk option starting at $665 (including the required hunting license). Cow elk as low as $323.

If you don't live in Utah and these are too expensive, put in elsewhere. The reality is between food and travel out of state isn't cheap for most. Some guys have an awesome setup, but the reality is there is a large sunk cost.

Stay home, buy a half of beef, and complain on forums. What's hilarious is a lot of these dudes complaining also pay $400 for a sitka jacket without thinking twice.

Now.. About those $16 deer tags in Montana....


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> The reality is between food and travel out of state isn't cheap for most. Some guys have an awesome setup, but the reality is there is a large sunk cost.


I was doing some math a few months ago on how much it would cost me to hunt elk in Arizona for a tag that would only take 6 or 7 points to draw. Not even talking about the best units or hunt dates. Once you factor in hunting licenses every year, app fees, and then the ultimate permit fee (on top of gas, hotel, food, etc for the actual hunt), it really is very expensive to get that Arizona elk tag where you're likely chasing 290-300 inch bulls on the better end of the spectrum.

I'd rather buy a cow elk landowner tag here every couple of years if we are talking about that much money and end up having a full freezer all the time rather than just once. But that's just me.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

What you need to do if you wanted to hunt Arizona is to put in for some other draws where you can draw a tag every year and go hunt while building points for other animals. 

I've been purchasing a Arizona hunting license now for 26 years. In those years I have hunted javelina every year, the license also allows you to hunt small game along with quail which are a fun bird to hunt. I have also drawn three antelope tags and two deer tags. In that same time I have only drawn 2 Utah LE tags. One deer and one elk but I have a bunch of points in Utah for other animals with a very slim chance of drawing any of the tags. My saving grace in Utah is my LL for deer and small game.

If you want to hunt out of state you just need to learn what else there is to hunt there other than your targeted animal. That is unless you like buying a license just to hang on the wall.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Vanilla said:


> That seems like a lot of effort and work to make a few bucks.


Shoot man - time is money!! It'll take me about two hours this year to make $600ish. Which after seeing attorney fees, is about what y'all charge to open and read an email (15 minutes). 

This little process basically pays for my Wyoming antelope tags and South Dakota whitetail tags.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> If you want to hunt out of state you just need to learn what else there is to hunt there other than your targeted animal. That is unless you like buying a license just to hang on the wall.


The whole post is a great point. BUT - you had a negative comment earlier about spike hunts and really general vs LE in Utah.

So which is it? Opportunity (which is what I look at out of state as) or Trophy? Because what you are talking about with Arizona is using the $160 hunting license and buying other game tags or hunting small game with it, while still spending the travel and food expense. I don't at all disagree with that, but it sure seems to contradict people's feelings on the cost to hunt Utah, and on us splitting up LE and General.

You can also hunt elk in Utah as a non-res every year while building points for that LE. So again, two different systems with benefits to each.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Arizona is quite unique in that it is mostly a trophy elk state. I haven't even ventured into their reg for elk since I have no desire to get into their point game. But I was just saying that you don't have to purchase a hunting license and then just let it sit there like a envelope containing a bill from a creditor. 

I'm still against Utah's two tiered elk and deer hunts. You can go to Idaho, Colorado, and Montana and purchase a license that will get you into the 350" bulls over the counter. That license is the same for all bull elk. Not like Utah's where you pay one price for a spike or a hard to hunt any bull unit and then another price for a bull of your choice. So comparing any state with Utah don't wash it for me. Yes in Utah you can hope that you draw a LE elk tag and pay a premium price for it and enjoy a larger success rate but what is the cost of that success rate? I know fewer hunters and being able to hunt elk in the rut with a rifle. If any of the other states would open up their general elk hunts during the rut you would see similar success rates I believe. 

As for your last statement, why would you want to hunt spike elk in Utah when for the same cost you can hunt any bulls in other states except for Colorado that has a point restriction in place for most of their units. But you can also gain points in Colorado while hunting elk every year where the elk tags cost the same weather it is a general OTC unit or a unit that you have to wait a dozen years to draw a tag. But you can shoot a 350" bull in any of those OTC units for that same tag cost.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> As for your last statement, why would you want to hunt spike elk in Utah when for the same cost you can hunt any bulls in other states except for Colorado that has a point restriction in place for most of their units. But you can also gain points in Colorado while hunting elk every year where the elk tags cost the same weather it is a general OTC unit or a unit that you have to wait a dozen years to draw a tag. But you can shoot a 350" bull in any of those OTC units for that same tag cost.


Like I said, they don't need to come.

Same reason people shoot cow elk for $600 in Colorado. For many it's not about the inches. You continue to ignore we offer both spike and any bull, AND LE. It's about how frequently you want to hunt, and what you are after. Not sure why that's so hard to miss.

Also - since these $600 350" bulls exist all over, OTC, in every western state then this price hike shouldn't matter because there is no reason for non res to come here. I am a little surprised why I don't see more 350" bulls on everyone's walls.

Oh that's right... because it doesn't work like that.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Critter said:


> I'm still against Utah's two tiered elk and deer hunts. You can go to Idaho, Colorado, and Montana and purchase a license that will get you into the 350" bulls over the counter. That license is the same for all bull elk. Not like Utah's where you pay one price for a spike or a hard to hunt any bull unit and then another price for a bull of your choice. So comparing any state with Utah don't wash it for me. Yes in Utah you can hope that you draw a LE elk tag and pay a premium price for it and enjoy a larger success rate but what is the cost of that success rate? I know fewer hunters and being able to hunt elk in the rut with a rifle. If any of the other states would open up their general elk hunts during the rut you would see similar success rates I believe.


Sheeesh, this is a dog chasing its tail. Get you into 350" bulls over the counter in CO? Possible yes, but "get you into", nope.... Just like Utah's General elk season. In fact, I'd wager UT's Gen elk is better than many of CO's elk hunts. Have you even looked at the data for CO elk hunts? In 2019, they had an overall success rate on bull hunts of 14%. That includes their Primo units which only average success rates in the 50-60% range on 20+ year wait to draw and lesser units that take 3-15 points to draw and only have less than 40% success rates. The CO cow elk success rate was only 21%.

CO elk tags are $100 more than Utah's Gen elk and UT's gen elk has a higher average success rate for both the Any Bull and Spike Only. ID and MT are similar in success rates and you aren't getting into 350" bulls much in those states either. Utah's value is easily on par for General type hunts and the value of LE hunts is as good as it gets for the lucky applicant.

You say you wouldn't pay $200 more than CO for a UT LE elk permit. Makes no sense, but whatever. To each his own........ I'm out.

PS- here are the ID permit cost increases for next year. Looks like Utah is still ballpark of of other states.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/idaho-2021-nonresident-tag-and-license-fee-increase


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

11 pages and 103 posts....so, when will we see the credit card hits start...?? :rotfl:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

APD said:


> 11 pages and 103 posts....so, when will we see the credit card hits start...?? :rotfl:


Here?!


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

APD said:


> 11 pages and 103 posts....so, when will we see the credit card hits start...?? :rotfl:


 Wrong Thread for this question 8)


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> Has anyone seen the new Non-Resident hunting license and permit increases beginning July 1, 2020? These increases will hurt or eliminate a lot of NR hunters.
> I tried to add the fee increase chart but could not figure out how to do that here.


Not a chance! There are plenty of people willing to pay that and much more.

The same thing is said about sporting events, concerts, theaters, theme parks, etc. "Those increases will hurt ticket sales". Truth is, there is more demand now than ever.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> Here?!


In response to the GIF of the psycho tree hugging tool....
THIS IS SPARTA!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

MadHunter said:


> Not a chance! There are plenty of people willing to pay that and much more.
> 
> The same thing is said about sporting events, concerts, theaters, theme parks, etc. "Those increases will hurt ticket sales". Truth is, there is more demand now than ever.


Correct!
The last time Utah had a major increase in their prices on nonresident licenses and permits was in 2005 and they did lose some nonresident clients for a few years. But, in 2008 they made a good recovery and now the nonresident license and permit numbers are 3.6 times what they were in 2004, a year before the last increase. Indeed, there are people willing to pay more. Many on them have family ties in Utah and the hunts are part of those ties. I don't think Utah DWR has much to worry about!

Year--NR licenses and tags
2004--13,025
2005--11,636
2006--12,402
2007--10,573
2008--13,221
---------------
2019--44,425
2020--47,775

https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/Subpages/LicenseInfo/HuntingLicCertHistory20042015.pdf

https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Natl Hunting License Report 2019.pdf

https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Natl Hunting License Report 2020.pdf


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

COVID-19 will cut NR apps far more than the increased price of permits.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

elkfromabove said:


> Year--NR licenses and tags
> 2004--13,025
> 2005--11,636
> 2006--12,402
> ...


Those numbers are crazy to think about when you hear what people claim about Utah hunting on forums.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> Those numbers are crazy to think about when you hear what people claim about Utah hunting on forums.


To be fair, if you look at the surrounding states, especially Idaho and Colorado, Utah doesn't look too hot. The only neighboring state that sold less NR permits is Nevada.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

There's A LOT of NRs that are going to take their Utah points to the grave.

And I mean A LOT.
Most NRs with 20 + elk points will never draw.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I always tell my brother in law that he could have drawn the manti with his two points when I met him now sixteen years later he can still only draw the manti. Eventually everyone will realize they don't have a chance to draw the San Juan change units and point creep will drive him out of the manti too.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> There's A LOT of NRs that are going to take their Utah points to the grave.
> 
> And I mean A LOT.
> Most NRs with 20 + elk points will never draw.


When you stick to your guns on 1-3 units, that happens.

A lot of them could have drawn multiple tags. The multi-season Wasatch tag was allotted to one 20 point holder, and one 18 point holder (for the Bonus tags). I picked that because that's a "hunt-the-whole-freaking-fall" tag with very few permits and still only took 20.

People complain but are incredibly picky. I pulled up the odds and frankly if you go to the grave with 20 points, that was a decision YOU made.


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

Perhaps Utah's motivation with the price increases is to convince millions of Californian's to leave their high cost state and move to Utah, thereby reducing their state taxes and saving on hunt fees. :shock:


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Steve G said:


> Perhaps Utah's motivation with the price increases is to convince millions of Californian's to leave their high cost state and move to Utah, thereby reducing their state taxes and saving on hunt fees. :shock:


Uh..... NO! :O//:


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## wixxman (Jul 23, 2008)

You may just see an influx of us Californians. I think you would be surprised at the number already have moved there. -O,-


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Most of them aren't hunters, they are usually *** ****** *** **** **** (insert whatever prejudice you have to Californians). If they were hunters, while it messes with draw odds, in overall day-to-day matters we might not mind AS much.


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

MadHunter said:


> Uh..... NO! :O//:





RandomElk16 said:


> Most of them aren't hunters, they are usually *** ****** *** **** **** (insert whatever prejudice you have to Californians). If they were hunters, while it messes with draw odds, in overall day-to-day matters we might not mind AS much.


Haha. I usually try not to stir the pot, but that was too easy.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> These increases will hurt or eliminate a lot of NR hunters.


I doubt that very seriously.

First - You can only draw ones species and general deer. Which is a max of 3k with antelope island bison, which is cheaper than applying in a lot of states.

Second- You don't have to put money up front. If you were going to apply in Wyoming (Non special) for the same amount of tags in Utah, you would be out $12,754 out of pocket compared to Utah where it is $120 to apply.

Third - Utah Limits the tags, so there is trophy quality and because of the 50/50 system there is a chance of drawing every year - which isn't the case in Colorado.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

wixxman said:


> You may just see an influx of us Californians. I think you would be surprised at the number already have moved there. -O,-


 Oh we've noticed, cant find a decent hat anymore :shock:


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I'd like to know why tags, Res and Non-Res aren't transferable. This is after all, all about money. Once I win/buy a tag I should own it and have the right to sell it if I so choose. What does it matter if it is me or someone else utilizing the tag. It doesn't effect other hunters in any way if I am from Utah or Colorado or Timbuktu. Perhaps Utah could charge a transfer fee or something and actually get a little more revenue off of that tag. How is this different than giving the tag to some Conservation groups and letting them make a profit off the tag?


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> I'd like to know why tags, Res and Non-Res aren't transferable. This is after all, all about money. Once I win/buy a tag I should own it and have the right to sell it if I so choose. What does it matter if it is me or someone else utilizing the tag. It doesn't effect other hunters in any way if I am from Utah or Colorado or Timbuktu. Perhaps Utah could charge a transfer fee or something and actually get a little more revenue off of that tag. How is this different than giving the tag to some Conservation groups and letting them make a profit off the tag?


Because the tag is a public resource issued in your name. It would open up your tag to being sold to the highest bidder. That's just for starters.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

MadHunter said:


> Because the tag is a public resource issued in your name. It would open up your tag to being sold to the highest bidder. That's just for starters.


OK, and that's bad, cause? It's ok for the so called conservation groups to raffle off tags knowing full well many of the tags are precurred by virtually "the highest bidder" because he could afford to buy thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tickets in stead of you and me getting the tag because $25 was all we could allocate with out income.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> OK, and that's bad, cause? It's ok for the so called conservation groups to raffle off tags knowing full well many of the tags are precurred by virtually "the highest bidder" because he could afford to buy thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tickets in stead of you and me getting the tag because $25 was all we could allocate with out income.


Because it's a public resource and you can't profit from it.
Not touching the rest of yourstatement.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

MadHunter said:


> Because it's a public resource and you can't profit from it.


Someone is going to have to explain conservation and expo tags to me, if what you wrote here is true.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

BPturkeys said:


> I'd like to know why tags, Res and Non-Res aren't transferable. This is after all, all about money. Once I win/buy a tag I should own it and have the right to sell it if I so choose. What does it matter if it is me or someone else utilizing the tag. It doesn't effect other hunters in any way if I am from Utah or Colorado or Timbuktu. Perhaps Utah could charge a transfer fee or something and actually get a little more revenue off of that tag. How is this different than giving the tag to some Conservation groups and letting them make a profit off the tag?


I think a person should be able to sell their drawn tag if they want. However, this would have large implications for groups such as $FW and Mule Deer Foundation. If Joe-blow got the tag and sold it, they wouldn't raise as much money (more importantly, they wouldn't get to keep a portion of the money from the sale of the conservation tag). I HIGHLY doubt the state would ever want to put a common folk on the same footing as $FW - the horror . . .


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

CPAjeff said:


> I think a person should be able to sell their drawn tag if they want. However, this would have large implications for groups such as $FW and Mule Deer Foundation. If Joe-blow got the tag and sold it, they wouldn't raise as much money (more importantly, they wouldn't get to keep a portion of the money from the sale of the conservation tag). I HIGHLY doubt the state would ever want to put a common folk on the same footing as $FW - the horror . . .


Not to mention the thousands of non-hunters that would apply and sell their tag just to make a buck......


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

RemingtonCountry said:


> Not to mention the thousands of non-hunters that would apply and sell their tag just to make a buck......


Very true!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

MadHunter said:


> Because it's a public resource and you can't profit from it.
> Not touching the rest of your statement.


What about grazing rights and mineral rights and stuff like that? Aren't they "public resources" that people are making(at least trying to make) a profit from?

What about Vanilla's comment(Conservation and Expo tags), don't want to touch it either?

And about the Non-hunter profiteers... I can't imagine that being a real problem, they'd have to get in line to draw a high-dollar tag just like the rest of us. I'd call investing in a chance for a San Juan tag a real "long term" investment.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> What about grazing rights and mineral rights and stuff like that? Aren't they "public resources" that people are making(at least trying to make) a profit from?
> 
> What about Vanilla's comment(Conservation and Expo tags), don't want to touch it either?
> 
> And about the Non-hunter profiteers... I can't imagine that being a real problem, they'd have to get in line to draw a high-dollar tag just like the rest of us. I'd call investing in a chance for a San Juan tag a real "long term" investment.


These are handled differently and that has been the gripe with the expo tags and the money they generate for SFW. Lookup the difference between on how the two are handled.

Grazing rights and mineral rights.... YOU pay the according fee for their use just like YOU pay to hunt an anuimal and YOU cannot sell them down the line to someone else.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

MadHunter said:


> Grazing rights and mineral rights.... YOU pay the according fee for their use just like YOU pay to hunt an anuimal and YOU cannot sell them down the line to someone else.


Not to quibble but yes you can sell them down the line.
Carry on.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Expo tags aren't going to private profit (lo-freaking-l)... they are going to charitable organizations (lol) that put back into the resource (lol). 

Same reason the church can have gagillions of dollars sitting around they didn't pay tax on. Don't get your panties in a wad that I used the church. I am simply saying if you don't see them as a conglomerate then you should certainly understand what a 501-c3 is. 


I mean there are moral, ethical, and practical reasons tags can't be transferred. We can go through a bunch of them but who honestly cares to have the debate? It makes sense so many ways and would waste a lot of energy arguing.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

wixxman said:


> You may just see an influx of us Californians. I think you would be surprised at the number already have moved there. -O,-


we should build a wall


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

BP - to allow any and all tags to be sold for profit would plant us squarely in a European-type model and that is exactly what the North American Wildlife Conservation Model is trying to avoid. Granted, yes, our model is being bastardized to, and there are those trying to push us over to the European-style modus operandi, but I've gotta say, I like what have had going here for the last 150 years. No thanks to transferable tags - that would just push us further down that slippery slope..and quicker at that!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

APD said:


> we should build a wall


Unless they are sane and don't want to turn us into Utahfornia. I never understand why people move here - often to get away from the [email protected] show in their own state - then advocate for the same [email protected] to happen here. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

MWScott72 said:


> Unless they are sane and don't want to turn us into Utahfornia. I never understand why people move here - often to get away from the [email protected] show in their own state - then advocate for the same [email protected] to happen here. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


That's why my home state has morphed into New Mexifornia...


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