# How low will she go?



## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

I was really hoping that this spring would have had enough run-off she could have at least kept the same level as last year. Anyone driving I-15 past I-15 can sure see a lot of lake bed. Even Freemont Island doesn't look like much of an Island.

http://greatsalt.uslakes.info/Level.asp


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Not looking good for us is it.


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

Afraid not bud. Was on the highway this morning with this wind and couldn't believe the dust cloud being kicked up off the lake. :sad:

Sounds like an even better idea to pipe water from the Bear River away from the GSL seeing it like this...


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Probably about the same level as last year I'm assuming.
At this point, I am also assuming that hunting is going to SUCK as bad or worse than last year too. No water = No birds......

I really hate to sound negative, but after the shi++y season last year, and the still dry conditions, I have a hard time thinking differently as of now. Another thing that could really screw us is if we have a huge botulism outbreak on the GSL this late summer. It happens every year to some degree, but if we have another 1997 where over 500,000 birds died, that will have a huge impact on the season.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

At least lake Powell raised 7 feet higher than last year. Our state believes in bringing in more industry, and more people. All the water that used to end up in the GSL is now being held in our underground water systems. This will continue.


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## swampfox (Dec 30, 2014)

Its amazing looking at those charts and seeing how consistently the lake level has been dropping since 2012. Almost like clockwork. I hope it can recover, but things aren't looking good right now. I used to duck hunt like crazy, but have transitioned more to upland so I haven't hunted ducks in a few years. I'm just curious, how do the dropping lake levels affect places like Farmington Bay, Ogden Bay, and the BRBR? I used to foot soldier all over those places and had pretty good success. I wonder if some of the places I used to hit are drying up as well. I hunted to shores of the lake a few times, as well as pintail flats out by Ogden, but I'm sure those places are dry now.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Most of the interior units of the WMA's will be OK. Outside of the dikes, on state lands, it is bleak. 
R


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

swampfox said:


> I'm just curious, how do the dropping lake levels affect places like Farmington Bay, Ogden Bay, and the BRBR?


The birds don't stick around the impoundments long with hunting pressure when they have no other place to go. The GSL makes a fantastic rest area when there is water. I mostly hunt FB and have noticed some very negative changes the last several seasons because of the dry lake conditions. When the GSL was closer to the Turpin dike hunting conditions were far better than they are now. More water = more birds, and birds that will stay longer before heading South.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

utahbigbull said:


> I was really hoping that this spring would have had enough run-off she could have at least kept the same level as last year. Anyone driving I-15 past I-15 can sure see a lot of lake bed. Even Freemont Island doesn't look like much of an Island.
> 
> http://greatsalt.uslakes.info/Level.asp


This is from I-80 next the the shorebird nature preserve taken about two weeks ago.
https://goo.gl/photos/CzwoNPoEQNzx1iE9A


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

fish-n-fool said:


> This is from I-80 next the the shorebird nature preserve taken about two weeks ago.
> https://goo.gl/photos/CzwoNPoEQNzx1iE9A


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## Fowladdiction (Oct 13, 2014)

Went out to Antelope Island for work the other day and thought I would speak to the DNR while I was there. They are expecting a record low water level this year. It's going to be a rough year for the birds. 
I have to say I'm getting real tired of seeing more and more people being squished into the Wasatch Front. Our roads can't handle it, our water resources can't handle it and it's killing the Wasatch Fronts ecosystem. 
It's got to stop!


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Utah consistently has the highest birth rate in the nation decade after decade after decade. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you live in a state with finite water resources, and you insist on breeding like there is no tomorrow, then you get these kinds of results. Heck, the gubbmint even gives you a tax break to have kids. Our wetlands will suffer dramatically for our foolishness. 
R


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

We're takin' every drop of runoff in the Bear River Drainage and turning it into hay.....uh and stacking that hay next to the 2015 hay that's next to the pile of hay from 2014.

That's all I have for now, I gotta go water my lawn.

.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> We're takin' every drop of runoff in the Bear River Drainage and turning it into hay.....uh and stacking that hay next to the 2015 hay that's next to the pile of hay from 2014.
> 
> That's all I have for now, I gotta go water my lawn.
> 
> .


And selling that hay (water) to China. At least that's what they do here in Utah.


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## NVDuckin (Apr 18, 2016)

fish-n-fool said:


> This is from I-80 next the the shorebird nature preserve taken about two weeks ago.
> https://goo.gl/photos/CzwoNPoEQNzx1iE9A


Yikes! Is that all dry areas? At first glance I thought it was unmelted snow...


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

rjefre said:


> Utah consistently has the highest birth rate in the nation decade after decade after decade. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you live in a state with finite water resources, and you insist on breeding like there is no tomorrow, then you get these kinds of results. Heck, the gubbmint even gives you a tax break to have kids. Our wetlands will suffer dramatically for our foolishness.
> R


This and the unwillingness to move outside of Utah.

I know people that have turned down more money to stay in Utah.

I do not understand why people have to stay in Utah, maybe I missed that memo.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> We're takin' every drop of runoff in the Bear River Drainage and turning it into hay.....uh and stacking that hay next to the 2015 hay that's next to the pile of hay from 2014.
> 
> That's all I have for now, I gotta go water my lawn.
> 
> .


I agree!..

I'm pro farmer, pro agriculture. hell, I even come from a cattle and alfalfa farming family, but farming consumes by far more water than any other way. I believe (IMO) quite a bit of that water is wasted. leaky pipes/busted lines ect. just look at most peoples wheel lines! nearly everyone I see is spewing water at the valves and connections and its spewing by the gallons.

However, I believe the water shortage is due to a lot of things: careless farming techniques, dry weather, light snow pack which is part of dry weather, increase of construction, and one of the last i would consider would be growing population.

no body can honestly tell me that we are drinking or showering all this water away. Well, then people would say its because people water their lawns all the time. Although that may be a contributor, but give me a break. people need to go watch Farmer Jon water his alfalfa field and see how much of that water gets wasted.

I think we can more effectively water our agricultural crops, but everyone has to be on board which will require some farmers to spend money upgrading there systems and I think thats something that most aren't willing to do.

we need to pray for snow/rain! and when we get it we need not to complain!

I'm ready to kill ducks this year, and I'm starting to realize that it will be a challenging year even for me.

requiring more hard work than the usual hard work. makes me sick thinking about it.
I think this year people are going to have to step it up a little bit more, go the farther distance and step out of the normality and be bold.

techniques and locations.

every duck season, I have to adjust my area/technique just a little before I start getting the results I'm looking for. I feel this year is going to test the toughest of all us waterfowlers.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I blame wasteful watering practices (especially flood irrigation) and our water rights laws for the mess we're in. The expanding population doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt if it replaces an agricultural field.

When a housing development replaces an agricultural field, the development almost always uses less water than was used on the site to grow crops, despite the fact that people don't act like we live in a desert when they landscape. If people got a clue and incorporated desert landscaping, we would do a lot better.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

You ought to see the devastation out at Locomotive Springs. 20 years ago, that place was full of ponds and creeks (and birds). The state Div of Water Rights gave a few farmers the go-ahead to sink a bunch more pivots into the aquifer out in the sage brush out by Snowville and now the Loco Springs are basically dead. All that water is now being pumped and sold to Asia in the form of alfalfa. What a tremendous loss to the citizens of Utah...we had a great state-owned wetland and they sold it out.
R


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

NVDuckin said:


> Yikes! Is that all dry areas? At first glance I thought it was unmelted snow...


fish-n-fool e-mailed me those photos the other day, and yes those are all dry areas on the GSL. It is looking pretty sad out there again this year. We need another 1983 before things will improve I'm afraid.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

A few months ago, when our esteemed legislature was in session, they voted (SB 80) to approve the spending of approx. 300 million over the next ten years to study and begin funding "water projects". One of the projects specifically mentioned in the bill is the diversion of the Bear River. This will send water to SLC for our urban population and for economic development. It will also drop the Great Salt Lake water levels at least one full vertical foot. If you think the marshes are dry now, you aint seen nuthin yet! 
I urge you to think about that when you vote for our local leaders in November. Our waterfowling heritage is under siege, and the worst threats are not from dry summers...
R


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

It will start to affect the ski season and millions of dollars of revenue will be lost. Maybe that's what it will take before people start to listen.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

http://kutv.com/news/local/great-salt-lake-levels-at-50-year-low


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

goosefreak said:


> I agree!..
> 
> I'm pro farmer, pro agriculture. hell, I even come from a cattle and alfalfa farming family, but farming consumes by far more water than any other way. I believe (IMO) quite a bit of that water is wasted. leaky pipes/busted lines ect. just look at most peoples wheel lines! nearly everyone I see is spewing water at the valves and connections and its spewing by the gallons.
> 
> ...


2.5 million plus people on the Wasatch Front and you want to blame agriculture :rotfl: That's as bad as the idiots in Vegas blaming low snow pack for Lake Mead being half empty. People use water and it's not just showering and flushing the toilet. Do you have a lawn? A hot tub? Wash your car or atv's ever? The problem is people using more water than nature can supply-plain and simple. The Great Salt Lake was never this low when you had space between cities and it was mostly fields, it only became a problem when people built houses in those fields. Remember when you had gaps between all of the towns between Payson and North Ogden? Remember when Lehi sat out all by itself? I really don't think you want another winter like 1983. Besides we would have to spend millions to buy those pumps back lol.


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

Afraid it gonna take more than just one '83 repeat to pull us out of this..


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

plottrunner said:


> 2.5 million plus people on the Wasatch Front and you want to blame agriculture :rotfl: That's as bad as the idiots in Vegas blaming low snow pack for Lake Mead being half empty. People use water and it's not just showering and flushing the toilet. Do you have a lawn? A hot tub? Wash your car or atv's ever? The problem is people using more water than nature can supply-plain and simple. The Great Salt Lake was never this low when you had space between cities and it was mostly fields, it only became a problem when people built houses in those fields. Remember when you had gaps between all of the towns between Payson and North Ogden? Remember when Lehi sat out all by itself? I really don't think you want another winter like 1983. Besides we would have to spend millions to buy those pumps back lol.


you must not know much about agriculture, or the amount of water it takes to maintain it. OR maybe you do and your trying to stick up for your own reality. Were not just talking about a farmer watering his 100 acre field for 10 minutes my friend, were talking about farmer joe watering a fiels for a staight day or 2 with a 1/4 mile 8" pipeline and thats just 1 dude on 1 field. were talking thousands of gallons, not 10's of gallons. If you would have read farther into my comment you would have noticed that there are other contributors like development and low snow pack ect... OR maybe the agriculture comment struck a cord with you? maybe you are a farmer. Like I said, I come from a family thats been farming for 100 years. I know all too well how wasteful farmers can be with water. I'v seen it in our fields and other people i'v come in contact with. its a fact-*|*--*|*-

We drilled several wells into the aquifer on our farms


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Agriculture uses a huge amount of water and it would really help if it could be made to be more effective and less wasteful. 
People also use a huge amount of water. If you ever hike in the foothills along the Wasatch front, you will notice the nearly EVERY little canyon and draw has been piped into culinary tanks. There was a time only a few decades go when those small creeks actually sent their water into the Great Salt Lake wetlands. The water from those creeks is now stored and used. Then, the water that doesn't soak into our lawns (there are over a million of them) will end up in a sewage treatment plant. These treatment plants are one of the most crucial sources of water inflows to the GSL nowadays. Unfortunately, they won't spend the money to fully clean the wastewater and it ends up growing algae (see Utah Lake or Farmington Bay). Also, there is now talk of re-selling the wastewater back up to the neighboring cities to use as secondary water for more lawns in more subdivisions. When this happens, our wetlands will lose a huge amount of water and it will be directly due to increased population growth along the Wasatch front. 
R


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

For one to think that the agriculture industry is without sin in our water woes is ignorant. Yes their are a host of issues with residential, municipality, and commercial usage. But when 80% of all water is consumed/used by the ag along the front that usage must be addressed. Flood irragation has got to be done away with. The amount of water wasted in that method is huge. Major canal lines must be piped. Not cemented, but piped! Water loss in the large dirt ditches is estimated at 40% in some areas in box elder county. Had a farmer tell that to me today. Farmers attitude towards the water usage and the lake must change. It starts with us, our elected officials are bafoons! (Paddler please refrain from taking this to a dem/GOP debate! For the love of all the ducks please don't!) if one travels to Idaho you will see more pivot lines, liner lines, and sprinkler hand lines. Wonder why?? Ohh it's more efficient and effective. My uncle installed a few here a couple years ago.muses less water and far better yield. Down side. Tons of money! Perhaps some type of incentive to help farmers transition or something I don't know. also perhaps crop selection needs to be addressed. As much as I love hunting corn fields, they are a very very thirsty plant to water. If things don't start changing, it looks really bleak for the future of the lake and our beloved wing fowl won't stick around long....

Btw, long time user here. Had to reregister because of some stupid password change and I couldn't access my old recover email.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

kingEider said:


> For one to think that the agriculture industry is without sin in our water woes is ignorant. Yes their are a host of issues with residential, municipality, and commercial usage. But when 80% of all water is consumed/used by the ag along the front that usage must be addressed. Flood irragation has got to be done away with. The amount of water wasted in that method is huge. Major canal lines must be piped. Not cemented, but piped! Water loss in the large dirt ditches is estimated at 40% in some areas in box elder county. Had a farmer tell that to me today. Farmers attitude towards the water usage and the lake must change. It starts with us, our elected officials are bafoons! (Paddler please refrain from taking this to a dem/GOP debate! For the love of all the ducks please don't!) if one travels to Idaho you will see more pivot lines, liner lines, and sprinkler hand lines. Wonder why?? Ohh it's more efficient and effective. My uncle installed a few here a couple years ago.muses less water and far better yield. Down side. Tons of money! Perhaps some type of incentive to help farmers transition or something I don't know. also perhaps crop selection needs to be addressed. As much as I love hunting corn fields, they are a very very thirsty plant to water. If things don't start changing, it looks really bleak for the future of the lake and our beloved wing fowl won't stick around long....
> 
> Btw, long time user here. Had to reregister because of some stupid password change and I couldn't access my old recover email.


Welcome to the site! Are you new to duck hunting as well? How long have you been in Utah?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

kingEider said:


> For one to think that the agriculture industry is without sin in our water woes is ignorant. Yes their are a host of issues with residential, municipality, and commercial usage. But when 80% of all water is consumed/used by the ag along the front that usage must be addressed. Flood irragation has got to be done away with. The amount of water wasted in that method is huge. Major canal lines must be piped. Not cemented, but piped! Water loss in the large dirt ditches is estimated at 40% in some areas in box elder county. Had a farmer tell that to me today. Farmers attitude towards the water usage and the lake must change. It starts with us, our elected officials are bafoons! (Paddler please refrain from taking this to a dem/GOP debate! For the love of all the ducks please don't!) if one travels to Idaho you will see more pivot lines, liner lines, and sprinkler hand lines. Wonder why?? Ohh it's more efficient and effective. My uncle installed a few here a couple years ago.muses less water and far better yield. Down side. Tons of money! Perhaps some type of incentive to help farmers transition or something I don't know. also perhaps crop selection needs to be addressed. As much as I love hunting corn fields, they are a very very thirsty plant to water. If things don't start changing, it looks really bleak for the future of the lake and our beloved wing fowl won't stick around long....
> 
> Btw, long time user here. Had to reregister because of some stupid password change and I couldn't access my old recover email.


Just go to the west side of Utah lake and watch all the farms sucking out water and irrigating like there is no tomorrow. Most of the pipes leak out as much at the joints as the sprinkler heads are putting out.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

JuniorPre 360 said:


> Welcome to the site! Are you new to duck hunting as well? How long have you been in Utah?


Not new to the site. Been here for a long time.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

kingEider said:


> Not new to the site. Been here for a long time.


I'm just messing with you.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Well the GSL is now at its low point of last year, 4192.4, and we still have an additional 30-60 days of evaporation potential where we could lose another half of foot at least. Then the railroad causeway is scheduled to open this fall which will move another 1.0 to 1.5 ft of water to the North. No water yet coming in from the Bear, at least we now have some coming in from the Weber. Grim news.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

NVDuckin said:


> Yikes! Is that all dry areas? At first glance I thought it was unmelted snow...


No that is lake bed.

And here is some comparison photos from the same time last year to this year.

Aug2015:
https://goo.gl/photos/f2LQpXk3XNsLdFtb8

Aug2016:
https://goo.gl/photos/7gMRZMpiKeW2eebD7

If you look close there is a difference, No out flow from BRBR this year, very little from Ogden but looks like they are starting to flood pintail. Looks worse to me. Hope for a wet fall and wet winter.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I keep hearing that there are a ton of birds in the WMA's right now. I heard the same thing last year. There probably are, but once the birds get pressured they are going to be out of here, just like last year. They don't have that big old pond (GSL) to rest on like they used to.


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

^^^^^ EXACTLY! I give them two day after the opener and with nowhere else to go, they'll be gone.

I can see the difference the last couple years in Hooper with the geese. In years past, I could watch flock after flock every day heading in and out of town from the lake out west of Howard Slough. The last couple years, that is all now dried up lake bed and haven't seen them anywhere near like I used to since they have nowhere to roost there.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I got a good look at the inside of Farmington spraying Wednesday. There is a few birds there now. But not impressive numbers yet Its still early.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

rjefre said:


> A few months ago, when our esteemed legislature was in session, they voted (SB 80) to approve the spending of approx. 300 million over the next ten years to study and begin funding "water projects". One of the projects specifically mentioned in the bill is the diversion of the Bear River. This will send water to SLC for our urban population and for economic development. It will also drop the Great Salt Lake water levels at least one full vertical foot. If you think the marshes are dry now, you aint seen nuthin yet!
> I urge you to think about that when you vote for our local leaders in November. Our waterfowling heritage is under siege, and the worst threats are not from dry summers...
> R


Bwhahaahaahaa. Yea right. This state has the most gullible people on the planet. Why Utah even bothers to hold elections is a mystery to me. 
The same folks will be elected......the ones with (R)'s behind their names. The same crap will continue including making laws and legislation BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. 
This is INSANE!!!! No checks, no balances, and the music plays on and we will all continue to dance to it.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

utahbigbull said:


> ^^^^^ EXACTLY! I give them two day after the opener and with nowhere else to go, they'll be gone.
> 
> I can see the difference the last couple years in Hooper with the geese. In years past, I could watch flock after flock every day heading in and out of town from the lake out west of Howard Slough. The last couple years, that is all now dried up lake bed and haven't seen them anywhere near like I used to since they have nowhere to roost there.


They just get pushed out where they're safe. It's all good.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Birds will not stick around. They will push through like others have said. 4 or 5 years ago when we had a high water year, the birds stayed, and piled up. Best October and November I have seen in certain areas. Pretty sad to see what the future holds for the lake.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> Birds will not stick around. They will push through like others have said. 4 or 5 years ago when we had a high water year, the birds stayed, and piled up. Best October and November I have seen in certain areas. Pretty sad to see what the future holds for the lake.


That is a pretty accurate description of the situation...but it doesn't HAVE to be this way. Seriously, we can have water in our marshes, we can have water in the GSL (more than we have now for sure), and all it takes is for our local elected officials to actually give a rats' patoot about the GSL wetlands. It CAN HAPPEN. We need to take a minute and write a short email about our concerns, and send it to the right local legislators...that's a good start. 
I can help...I can send you a list of the appropriations committee (and their email addresses)...a few of us could send an email...it's easy, but it doesn't get done. If WE don't care, why should these jackwagons that we elected care?
R


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Go ahead and post up the relevant addresses, Rjefre! I for one will take the time to write a few emails. It might be pi#$ing into the wind but at least I will feel like I tried.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

It looks like they have either reduced the outflow from Utah lake or stopped it altogether. Over the weekend the Jordan river looked much much lower than it has in Saratoga.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

LostLouisianian said:


> It looks like they have either reduced the outflow from Utah lake or stopped it altogether. Over the weekend the Jordan river looked much much lower than it has in Saratoga.


It is about that time of year for harvesting so I am not to surprised to here and it is good news. Thanks for the update hopefully the lake will come up a few inches. before the season starts. LOL! one can hope.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Over the weekend we stopped along the shoreline on the northwest end. I saw people walking out into the lake 200-300 yards from shore and the water wasn't even up to their knees....crazy.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

When I have a few minutes (probably tomorrow), I'll start a new thread with the relevant email addresses to the people that control the funds and can allow the State Lands Division to work on our marshes (our marshes are Utah State-Owned Sovereign Lands). A quick and short email about our concerns is all that is necessary to let them know that some of us care. Thanks for your help!
R


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