# HB 45 Crossbows during Archery hunts?



## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Utah State Rep. Scott Jenkins is sponsoring a bill to allow crossbows during archery hunts.

_"Be it enacted by the Legislature of the state of Utah:_

Section 1. Section *23-13-20 *is enacted to read:
*23-13-20. Use of crossbow during archery hunt.*
An individual may use a crossbow:
(1) as prescribed by the Wildlife Board in rule, in accordance with Title 63G, Chapter 3, Utah Administrative Rulemaking Act; and
(2) during an archery hunt established under authority of this title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah."

This bill doesn't exactly allow crossbows during archery hunts, but allows the Wildlife Board to make that determination. This bill is being discussed today, probably even as I type this. Your thoughts?


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

Not exited about a guy introducing this for his own selfish desires. I certainly hope in dies before it sees the light of day.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Totally for it, especially with these new "in city" deer control hunts.


-DallanC


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

They should be called arrow guns and not crossbows. There is almost no similarity between a crossbow and a vertical bow. I don't think they have a place in the "archery" season for the masses.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

alpinebowman said:


> They should be called arrow guns and not crossbows. There is almost no similarity between a crossbow and a vertical bow. I don't think they have a place in the "archery" season for the masses.


As an "archer" I can state without hesitation that my current bow is not in the same universe as the one that I started with. Let alone all of the gadgets that come with it to make it lighter and more precise. The modern compound bow is more similar IMO to a crossbow than it is to a recurve or longbow.

100% let off is a lot closer to 85% than it is to 0%.

I have no problem with the crossbow at all


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

I hunt with both and MUCH prefer my compound to the crossbow.
Lighter, infinitely quieter, way more compact and maneuverable.
Yes, it has more range but this is more than offset by the noise and "jump the string" factor. The effective range is really 30-40yds.
The newer compounds are shooting with the same speed (330-350fps)and kinetic energy as the crossbow (mine shoots 343fps).


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

That may be so mule but it still requires skill to shoot even the best compound. You can set up anybody on a tripod with a crossbow and kill with basically no instruction. Not even close with a vertical bow. Let alone the big factor of not having to draw a bow at the most crucial time and possibly hold that bow for a unknown length of time. They are oranges to apples guys.


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
I am not in favor of it BTW


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

alpinebowman said:


> That may be so mule but it still requires skill to shoot even the best compound. You can set up anybody on a tripod with a crossbow and kill with basically no instruction. Not even close with a vertical bow. Let alone the big factor of not having to draw a bow at the most crucial time and possibly hold that bow for a unknown length of time. They are oranges to apples guys.


I know they are oranges to apples. Same as comparing a compound to a longbow. There are plenty of crappy shots that could use the advantages of a crossbow. The deer would appreciate it as well. They are legal in Wyoming and it is a very small perentage that uses them. I don't see this having much of an impact either way. Not worth a sqaubble.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

Wyoming is a poor example. most in wyoming don't even hunt the archery season and anyone that draws a tag can hunt the archery season. All this will do is create more demand for archery tags that are all ready sold out and if it does make an archer better then the increased success will in the end decrease tags even more. if we had lots of deer to kill and needed to boost archery interest I may buy it but we are far from that.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Well............in response to that. I say go back to traditional hunting methods only then. If you guys think that the modern compound bow has not improved by leaps and bounds especially in the past 15 years..........it's not even the same weapon anymore. 

Hypocritical if you ask me.

same thing goes for the modern "smoke poles"


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

far from hypocritical. I still have to draw and hold a modern compound bow undetected then have the proper form and knowledge to hit your target. If you frequent any local 3D shoot you will quickly realize shooting even a modern compound is not an easy task for most. Give that same guy a crossbow on a bipod and I imagine his accuracy goes through the roof almost immediately. I look at a crossbow as more of a muzzleloader. you can sit there in wait with a loaded weapon and shoot out to a 100 yards without much effort.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

The only thing that would make this less appealing would be to not allow any scope on it. At that point it would be a very hard to be good at much distance. at the time scopes aren't allowed but I am sure they would be looking at changing that.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

fair enough bowman. Like I said before I am an archer as well. It is how I have hunted 99% of the time for past twenty years. I have shot in many 3d shoots as well. My argument is that changing of this law would not make enough people rush out and switch over to crossbows to make a difference IMO.

Personally I would rather see it implemented as any any weapon choice like it has been for the bear hunts to start. That said I don't think it will make a big difference either way. People that shoot archery overwhelmingly choose a vertical bow for a reason. The people that hunt with guns choose them for a reason. Crossbows have never been overly popular for a reason. By and large they are are boring to shoot. Personally it is the last weapon I would choose to hunt with.

BTW.......100 yards is cake walk for any modern muzzle loader. Most of them as accurate if not more accurate than rifles of years past.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

> This bill doesn't exactly allow crossbows during archery hunts, but allows the Wildlife Board to make that determination.


Crossbows are already a legal weapon, therefore, if it were the boards desire, they could make crossbows legal during archery season without this bill. In fact, this bill actually circumnavigates the existing RAC and Wildlife Board process and would trump any decision from the Wildlife Board on this matter.


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## adamsoa (Oct 29, 2007)

alpinebowman said:


> far from hypocritical. I still have to draw and hold a modern compound bow undetected then have the proper form and knowledge to hit your target. If you frequent any local 3D shoot you will quickly realize shooting even a modern compound is not an easy task for most. Give that same guy a crossbow on a bipod and I imagine his accuracy goes through the roof almost immediately. I look at a crossbow as more of a muzzleloader. you can sit there in wait with a loaded weapon and shoot out to a 100 yards without much effort.


I understand that you have some strong feelings about this and I don't want to make this into an argument but there are a few things you shared which that might be a little different than you understand.

First is how much easier they are to shoot. I hear this most of the time from people who haven't had a lot of time with crossbows especially in the field. Crossbows aren't that easy to shoot especially at a distance. We held an informational shoot out here in the basin a couple of years ago and most people were having a hard time hitting the target out at 40 yards without a good rest of some kind---not hitting the bull's-eye but the target its self.

Now at 20 yards or so they are fun to shoot and a lot easier to get on the money. But all the weight out front takes a toll on the distances.

Second even off a bipod it isn't as easy as you're making it sound. I've shot a crossbow now for several years. I shoot it quite a bit. I haven't shot at an animal past 50 yards. 100 yards even with a great set up is hard to do. I shoot out that far for practice but not often.

Everyone and their dog has seen the 100 yard video with the big scoped PSE. He's shooting off a bench. Big difference. As for hiking in with something like that. It just doesn't happen much. That PSE crossbow's been around for a while now and it doesn't sell much. To heavy and awkward to carry and shoot. 
Not only that, animals move at 100 yards---.

With a little research you can see that the average shot distance with crossbows is 30-40 yards.

I learned this year on a cougar hunt just how hard it is to hike very far with a crossbow through the brush. I have a smaller lighter crossbow and it seemed to grab every brush we passed. I had a friend help carry it out. His statement was "How do you hike anywhere with that thing? It caught on every brush in sight."

Finally seems like you thought that crossbows would kill more game and wreck the archery harvest numbers. That's been disproven I don't know how many times in many different states. Wyoming who's had them for well over 20 years, doesn't even track the numbers because they were statistically the same.

This is where I take offense with the anti crossbow talk. Seems like those against crossbows think that they are a bunch of unethical SOB's that will shoot any distance and wound or kill everything in sight. Its up to personal ethics. Someone picking up a crossbow isn't a bad hunter or a cheating unethical SOB. Most of them are hunters just like you who want to enjoy their experience hunting in the woods.

Anyway, to each his own. You can love crossbows or hate them-I'm not going to change your mind on this one.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Arent they actaully a pain in neck to draw? I know nothing about crossbows but heard they suck to draw only benefit being that a pin holds them drawn for you once drawn contrary to a compound bow.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Im not going to get sucked into this except for this one post. Crossbows are not evil by nature. Crossbows are a very effective weapon especially when shot from a stand or blind. 

My youngest daughter can hit a quarter sized dot at 40 yards almost every time she shoots it. They are incredibly simple to shoot and can be shot with almost no practice. 

Using Wyoming as a defense to harvest stats is no defense at all. No One bowhunts in Wyoming regardless of crossbow or vertical bow by percentage. Bow harvest % is irrelevant because by and large they hunt with a rifle.

Crossbows are a pain in the butt to pack around and most would not enjoy carrying one very far.

I really only have two real issues with adding the crossbow to our archery hunts.

1- competition for tags. We already sell out most if not all archery tags. I do not see a real need to recruit more hunters to archery UNLESS there was a shift in over all tag alottments. General and LE. 

2- fundamentally the crossbow has a significant advantage where the crossbow does not have to be drawn and held. It is no easy task getting drawn on an antelope, deer, or elk even in a blind. When you can sit behind the crossbow for 20 minutes waiting for the perfect shot and only squeeze the trigger when it finally happens, that is a significant advantage. I know several instances where this exact scenario happened and the hunters stated they could never have drawn and shot a normal bow but were able to kill mature bull elk with the crossbow over water. 

Personally I like the option for those with a medical condition, and I think youth should be able to use them till they turn 18.


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

3arabians said:


> Arent they actaully a pain in neck to draw? I know nothing about crossbows but heard they suck to draw only benefit being that a pin holds them drawn for you once drawn contrary to a compound bow.


 My crossbow has a 150lb draw weight.
With a rope pull, you halve that amount, which is still 75lbs. (You actually need to use the rope every time to make sure you have the exact same locking point on the rope with the trigger mechanism.)
You want to have fun? Try and re**** a crossbow while in a climbing stand. Not an easy feat. 
With my compound, simply renock and shoot.


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

I guess that I have silent far too long, especially on this subject. This past week during the Senate Committee meeting for this bill, I was asked to testify. Also testifying were UBA, Director of the DWR, and MDF. Due to circumstances out of my control, I am no longer able to hunt with my vertical bow and let me tell you, I severely miss it. I now, with a COR granted me by the DWR, hunt with a crossbow. Is it easier? Well, that depends on how you are hunting. From a tree stand, absolutely! Spot n stalk, no way. Can I shoot up to 100 yes,again No Way! For those that say you can have never tried to do so. My good friend killed a nice buck at 122yds. With my crossbow I do not even have an option/pin to even consider that distance. 
I highly doubt that this HB will go very far, but it did pass the committee. There is a good chance that they will be allowed on the general archery elk season. If any of you feel like wanting to talk about this issue, please feel free to message me. For those of my friends who have taken a strong stance on this issue, you know me and my thoughts.
We are hunters....why fight against each other. This is the same argument that came up in the mid 70's when traditionalists fought against compound hunters.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

ut1031 said:


> I guess that I have silent far too long, especially on this subject. This past week during the Senate Committee meeting for this bill, I was asked to testify. Also testifying were UBA, Director of the DWR, and MDF. Due to circumstances out of my control, I am no longer able to hunt with my vertical bow and let me tell you, I severely miss it. I now, with a COR granted me by the DWR, hunt with a crossbow. Is it easier? Well, that depends on how you are hunting. From a tree stand, absolutely! Spot n stalk, no way. Can I shoot up to 100 yes,again No Way! For those that say you can have never tried to do so. My good friend killed a nice buck at 122yds. With my crossbow I do not even have an option/pin to even consider that distance.
> I highly doubt that this HB will go very far, but it did pass the committee. There is a good chance that they will be allowed on the general archery elk season. If any of you feel like wanting to talk about this issue, please feel free to message me. For those of my friends who have taken a strong stance on this issue, you know me and my thoughts.
> We are hunters....why fight against each other. This is the same argument that came up in the mid 70's when traditionalists fought against compound hunters.


Well said.. If I hadn't seen first hand everything that goes into getting the crossbow ready to shoot, I might have a different opinion. I dont think it's as big of an advantage as a lot of people think.... The only thing I can see being an issue is increased demand for tags, and that's just because I'm selfish......so not really a good reason to oppose it.


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

I appreciate the comment 'having seen this first hand". I also appreciate the "demand for tags" issue. After speaking with the MDF, there is some work to be done and most of that is crossbow education. Hunting with these bows is much akin to carrying around a boat anchor.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I know and appreciate each of your thoughts and comments. This is a very polarizing topic. As a crossbow owner, I can speak first hand as well.
Shooting a crossbow is something that is incredibly easy to do and requires almost no practice to perform a good shot with. The very first time my son (14) and daughters (12, 10) shot my crossbow they were hitting the bullseye out to 40 yards almost every shot. They could not even come close to that kind of accuracy with a vertical compound bow at that time.

Hiking or still hunting with a crossbow is not any fun at all. I have seen very few people attempt this but it does happen. For sure, this is a massive drawback.

Most utilize a blind or treestand where the kill is a virtual guarantee. Absolutely zero movement to draw and lightning quick. This is by far the largest discrepancy between crossbows and vertical bows. You rarely need a second shot. If you somehow missed the crossbow is certainly a pain in the butt to reload for a quick second shot. 

Comparing compounds and recurves is not the same arguement. Both bows require movement and draw weight of some percentage to be held while drawn. There is no doubt this difference has the potential to alter success rates in Utah and change the integrity of the hunt. 

Using the hunter vs. hunter argument is a bit of a cheap shot. Those that need to use a crossbow right now can legally use one easy enough.


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

ut1031 said:


> Hunting with these bows is much akin to carrying around a boat anchor.


 I shot a coyote with my crossbow and then had to track him into some incredibly think underbrush. Basically tunnels in a previously clearcut area.
Every step was torture with the width of the crossbow catching on every twig and vine.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

silentstalker said:


> I know and appreciate each of your thoughts and comments. This is a very polarizing topic. As a crossbow owner, I can speak first hand as well.
> Shooting a crossbow is something that is incredibly easy to do and requires almost no practice to perform a good shot with. The very first time my son (14) and daughters (12, 10) shot my crossbow they were hitting the bullseye out to 40 yards almost every shot. They could not even come close to that kind of accuracy with a vertical compound bow at that time.
> 
> Hiking or still hunting with a crossbow is not any fun at all. I have seen very few people attempt this but it does happen. For sure, this is a massive drawback.
> ...


Each person is entitled to his own opinion of course. However I disagree with your assessment of the lethality of a crossbow compared to a compound bow. I do contend there will be fewer deer wounded and not found by crossbow hunters than by hunters using compound or recurve bows. There are many states that allow crossbows during the general hunt and the stats disagree with your assessment. Sorry.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Don't be sorry. I enjoy discussions like this and am always learning. I can only comment on my experience and those of close friends/family.

Im curious what your assessment is of their lethality. For discussion sake, do you own one? Have you ever hunted with one? 

What part of my experience with a crossbow do you disagree with?

My contention with the "other states" argument is just that, they are other states with very different hunter and deer densities. Very much apples and oranges IMO.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

silentstalker said:


> Don't be sorry. I enjoy discussions like this and am always learning. I can only comment on my experience and those of close friends/family.
> 
> Im curious what your assessment is of their lethality. For discussion sake, do you own one? Have you ever hunted with one?
> 
> ...


I don't see how you can say hunting a deer with a crossbow in another state versus Utah is like comparing apples and oranges. That's a somewhat disingenuous statement. I have never hunted deer with a bow but I was a championship archer in college having set the record score at LSU when I was there. Due to several health issues I couldn't shoot a bow right now if I even had the desire. My brother has hunted in Louisiana with a crossbow for a number of years now. He has killed several deer and a couple of pigs with his crossbow and we have discussed the kills at length. Is he physically capable of hunting with a compound bow...absolutely, unlike myself. Did the crossbow give him an unfair advantage...absolutely not. Just like any bow, the arrow has a limitation on the distance it can take game ethically. Crossbows have very little advantage over compound bows in arrow speed but they allow the hunter to hold longer and better on the target delivering a ethical shot and not missing as frequently and wounding the animal for it to run off and die days later and then the archer taking another animal in the meantime. If a crossbow allowed you to take a deer at 2-3 times the range of a compound bow then I could somewhat begin to understand the argument. I contend that actually fewer deer will be killed because there will be fewer wounded animals that are not found.

One could make a similar argument with firearms. Who is to say that we should be allowed to use calibers larger than say .25 caliber or calibers that had a certain ft. lb reading at say 300 yards in order to make it "more even" for the animal. Who is to say that calibers with the word "magnum" should be outlawed so as to make you have to get closer to the deer to kill it. To say that using a crossbow should not be allowed opens up a can of worms that is rather ridiculous. After all crossbows have been being used for hunting for hundreds of years. But that is just my opinion. And yes I have had a desire to hunt deer with a bow for a couple of years now and am seriously considering getting the paperwork filled out to use a crossbow. At this very point in time I am having serious issues with bursitis and arthritis in my pull back shoulder and I seriously doubt that I could pull back a 20 lb bow right now. I also have numerous bone fragments floating around in my elbow due to a broken arm and dislocated elbow. I know my issues are quite uncommon and if I could ethically use a compound bow I would opt for that but I don't feel it is my place to tell other hunters what they can or cannot use to take a deer, elk or other big game animal. When we attempt to regulate the technology, especially similar but slightly different technologies we run a slippery slope. One could argue that maybe we should limit rifles to a single shot, bolt action rifle with no more than 800 ft lbs of energy at 300 yards....so you see it is a slippery slope when you regulate technology.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate it. Too answer a few of your questions, let me say this.

The reason I say its apples and oranges is not because one weapon is more or less accurate or lethal. I say it because in a state like Wyoming which is referenced a ton, as its a nearby western state, there is no noticeable increase of harvest rates. In Wyoming there are not enough archers of any form to change statistics in any way. The same can not be said here in Utah. In states back east you are hunting close quarters on public/private land where deer numbers are incredibly high and the goal is high success to keep the herds in check. There is not the same competition for tags or game that we have hear in the Utah. that is the difference in my eyes. Does that help understand my position?

Also I agree 100% on your statement that arrows have similar limitations on distance. But, there is no real disputing that one can shoot a crossbow by simply sighting it in and then going hunting vs. the type of practice it takes to be proficient with a vertical bow of any kind. 

As you explained and I agree, the crossbow allows for an unlimited amount of time to hold and execute the perfect shot. Common speeds of bolts are between 350-400 fps. This is exactly why I say they are more lethal. As you said, potentially they miss less frequently and kill more often. 

Bowhunting any animal with a bow is a challenge. A large reason for that challenge is getting close enough for the shot, and then getting drawn on the animal followed by executing a great shot. With a crossbow two of those three steps are significantly easier.

Im sorry to hear about your injuries. You sound like a perfect candidate for a crossbow. I support you using it 100%. They are a ton of fun to shoot! Good luck in your adventures!


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

For your reading pleasure. Among other interesting findings in a QDMA study:

*Crossbows vs. Compounds*: Separated by bow type, crossbow hunters had an 89 percent recovery rate compared to 83 percent for compound bows.

*Shot Distance*: Crossbow hunters reported an average shot distance of 19.7 yards, while compound bow hunters kept it closer, reporting 17.6 yards.

http://www.qdma.com/articles/high-deer-recovery-rates-for-fixed-blade-and-mechanical-broadheads


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

Can I ask a question?

Why, if a crossbow is so inferior to a Compound Bow, Do you want to hunt with it?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Broadside_Shot said:


> Can I ask a question?
> 
> Why, if a crossbow is so inferior to a Compound Bow, Do you want to hunt with it?


No one is saying it's "so inferior" we are saying that it is not "so superior". For heavens sakes, if it is the technology and advantage then by danged doo golly lets' require everyone to use a recurve and ban compound bows. Any objections?


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm just asking. I'm just trying to see both sides of the story. It seems that every time this argument comes up that everyone who is in favor of the crossbow during archery seasons always tells us how poor the weapon is. I was just wondering why the push for allowing it if those that want to use it say it is not as good.

BTW, I would love the archery season to go to Longbows. I think that would be a blast. it would definitely bring back the integrity of the hunt IMO


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## HeberHunter (Nov 13, 2014)

I personally would be fine with seeing cross bows on the archery hunt. Other states such as Wyoming have allowed it and I really don't see it being a game changer for the archery hunt. I just picked up archery hunting the past 2 seasons and have yet to seal the deal with my compound bow. If the rules changed I wouldn't be switching over to a crossbow. Also, if they did allow it it would be just like the muzzleloader. You'd have to use open sights or a 1X scope. I don't see them allowing higher magnification scopes if they become legal to use on the archery hunt. For the first few years you might get some more people hunting the archery but once they realize that a cross bow is no muzzleloader or rifle it'll probably trickle back to what the archery numbers typically are.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

http://county10.com/2015/02/02/world-record-crossbow-elk-bagged-in-forest-near-dubois/


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

As stated, the crossbow isn't inferior. Unless you've hunted with one, you don't realize it has real limitations.
I have shot bows for over 40 years, and bow hunted (compound) since 1978. I got a used crossbow a few years ago just to try it out. I have since put it away and gone back to compound.
BTW, last year I took deer with crossbow, compound, muzzleloader and rifle.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Pathetic half the guys pushing this pile of manure are already using crossbows.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Well, it passed out of committee with a favorable vote of 4 to 3!


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

That's too bad IMO. I think we will eventually lose the integrity of hunting all together. In today's society the hunt doesn't seem to be as important as the Kill and recognition of trophy.

I have a hard time typing and getting my point across. I am not against crossbows or rifles or muzzle loaders. I think whats hard for me is what it has become.

I'm not going to say what way people should hunt and enjoy, to each their own. Just because you can kill an animal with rifle at 1,500 yards doesn't mean its wrong, its just that i don't enjoy the hunt that way, some do and that's their deal.

Archery to me was about sneaking, drawing your bow, scent control, camo, up close and personal with the animals. Trophy are fun and records are made to be broken but its not why I hunt.

Welcome to the "Now Generation" Old Man!!!


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

To lighten the mood:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't like that the system we have in place through the RAC and Wildlife Board is being bypassed by the Legislature. This is an issue that should have been dealt with through the public process.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

I have heard from good authority that Jenkins pulled his bill under the stipulation that the wildlife boards and racs take it in to serious consideration. I guess this is good till he doesn't get the result he wants and we end up with a bill to ram it in anyway.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't see most archers out there switching to crossbows. Especially guys already shooting compounds. You can shoot much farther with today's compounds than a crossbow. 

Seems alright with me to make them legal across the board. What's wrong with giving people a choice? People who switch to this from Rifle would be sadly disappointed if they expect the same success rates. 

On a personal note I recently discovered I have a large amount of arthritis growing on my shoulder ball socket. It's become pretty painful for me to shoot my bow one day after the other as the inflammation gets pretty out of control. The Dr actually said he's never ever seen it for someone only 28 like this. I even asked about a cross bow because the thought of giving up archery at this point in my life makes me sick to my stomach. He said my range of motion would have to keep decreasing to sign off on it as the law stands. The funny part is how bad the pain already even though I still have some range of motion. It's not even my draw arm either. It's just from holding the bow. If anyone knows of any magical remedies for arthritis feel free to shoot me a PM!!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

The only drawback (no pun intended) I see is an increase in archery applicants from the rifle club with no increase in archery permits to compensate. Give archers another 5% of the total and take that from the rifle hunters and, as far as I'm concerned personally, you're good to go!


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

You are absolutely correct Alpine, your UBA boy was there. As for not getting what he wants, yes he probably will if the process does not work. For anyone that has tried to get something passed by the Wildlife Board, knows how that typically works.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Several years ago, the DWR called a few of us to a meeting to get our take on crossbows. Since then, the RACs and WB have considered the matter and that's how we got to where we are now.

I have no idea how many Utah hunters want to use a xbow, but I'm thinking it's a relatively small number and definitely a lot fewer than the waterfowlers who are getting hosed by the legislature right now.

So do I need a tin foil hat if I'm thinking this push is coming almost entirely from Darton, Horton and Excalibur?


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## adamsoa (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't think you're a tin foil hat guy---I also don't think that the push in Utah is from the manufacturers. You might be surprised at the number of people interested in using them and their reasons.

I work with a guy that is a long time hunter but is new to bow hunting. He wants his wife to give it a try. She tried to use a bow at 40 lbs and couldn't pull it. As a busy mom that killed the interest in that for her. Would she give it a try if she could use a crossbow that she could operate with a crank on the first try. Yep.

Have another friend that is a long term ML guy. He has kids and would love to get the family into it. He told me that if crossbows were legal he'd move over from the ML season. 

Its a different strokes thing.

Crossbows have had an explosion of popularity over the last few years. They've gone from just 3 states that allowed crossbows during archery, to 32 that now have some sort of general archery season inclusion. With 17 others that have regulations for those with disabilities. Seems like its growing more every year---and they are fun to shoot.

I think the Walking Dead along with other media has helped a little in making crossbows more cool-----Though I think its ironic that the crossbow used has NO type of sighting device. He just looks down the end of the rail and shoots. Not sure how that happens but its funny.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

I hunted with a recurve and a compound for many years before I had my shoulder destroyed. Now hunt with a compound, will not make the long shots that can be taken with a compound. It is better than sitting at home, but not the end all piece of archery equipment. Takes time to **** and insert bolt into the crossbow. Can't legally ride with bow ****ed. Definitely no bolt in ****ed crossbow. Good for blind or stand hunting.


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