# Field Scoring Bull Elk



## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

I wanted to see if we could get a thread started to help people like me become better at scoring elk on the hoof. I watched some pretty interesting videos earlier on youtube testing my ability to score a live elk, but I would like some more practice. So if you would post some pics of your particular bull in a couple of poses if you have them in one reply and then in a second reply post the measurements if you have them or just the overall score. Any pics would be much appreciated. Any tips on field scoring would be appreciated as well as what to look for in better bulls.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Experience is the number one key to scoring on the hoof. Shed hunting is nearly the best way IMO for the average guy. If you score the bull while packing and get lucky enough to pick both sides up you then can get the definate score. Another way get a good set, study tine length, masses, beam length, width etc etc. It all changes at different yardages though. Who cares about the score right? Find that bull that you are happy to hang on your wall. I will p.m. you some pics later and see how you do.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

Check out this site:

http://bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/art ... ldjudging/

There's a few measurements and things and a little game where you can see how close you can get on 10 bulls.


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## Andymansavage (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is a bull I killed;

Live footage 2009 (7yrs old);
*first bull in the clip
http://www.monsterhuntclips.com/video/1 ... is-my-bull

on the ground 2010 (8 yrs old);
http://www.monsterhuntclips.com/video/1 ... owder-bull

I am guessing that the scores were pretty similar between the two years....I will post score later


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I found a pretty good article online. This seems to be pretty accurate.

http://jayscottoutdoors.blogspot.com/20 ... unter.html


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

great article SV


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Excellent link, svmoose! Jay Scott knows what he is talking about. He is as good as they get, as an elk guide and as a person. One of the good guys for sure. I can't see anything in his article I have strong disagreement with.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Andymansavage said:


> Here is a bull I killed;
> 
> Live footage 2009 (7yrs old);
> *first bull in the clip
> ...


In the first video looked like there were a few different bulls. The first bull appeared to be the better of them all. Didn't get a look at his fronts or 3rds, but I would guess by his frame he was somewhere between a 330-340" bull, if he had decent 3rds and good brows and 2nds.

The Blackpowder bull I would guess in that 330" range as well. Could have had better 3rds and looked like his main beams might have been a little shorter.

Now with that said, here is how I have started scoring bulls and so far I get halfway close unless they are 100 points over or under 350". I start off looking at every bull as a 350" bull. If he is not a 6x6, just a 5x5 I take off 10 points per side automatically. Then I look at brows and seconds, if the curl I add 0 points, if they don't depending on how short they are I subtract 5, 10 or 15 points per side. If they curl further than normal and look like they have great length I add 5, 10 or 15 depending on how great they look. Then I look at the 3rds and the 5ths. If they appear to be 15" I add 0 points. If they appear short I subtract 10 from each side, if they appear long, I add 10 to each side. Then I look at the Royals, if they appear to be 20" I add 0, long short you get the story. So far after looking at a bull for 15 seconds, I can usually get within 10-15 points, unless he is way under 300 or 400+. Sometimes I am within a point or two.The way I see that though is if its way under 300, then its not a bull I want to take, if its 400+ I'll chunk the calculator and grab the gun.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Actually I just looked at the Blackpowder bull again and his brows and 2's are a little shorter than I thought. I would put him 315-320".


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## Andymansavage (Sep 19, 2008)

338, that's pretty impressive! your first impression was right on, 330 GROSS. The scorer said that had he not chipped some points and busted a third he would have been in the mid 330's and had less than 2" of total deductions.......


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Andyman,,,,,,Thanks for showing what a true 330 gross/323 net bull looks like!!!

I guarantee 90% of hunters that see that type bull on the hoof are telling everyone 
they saw a 350-360 bull (or more)....................................Every time,,never fails.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

My heart goes out to those poor bastages that shoot a bull like this little 323 when they wanted a 350 or better. Poor, poor bastards. Perhaps they need to consider falling on their great big hunting knife and call their entire life a failure.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Andyman,,,,,,Thanks for showing what a true 330 gross/323 net bull looks like!!!
> 
> I guarantee 90% of hunters that see that type bull on the hoof are telling everyone
> they saw a 350-360 bull (or more)....................................Every time,,never fails.


I actually agree with you. Ironically this is why I STRONGLY disagree with the WB raising harvest age objectives and reducing permits on several units. A 330 bull is a BIG bull, but there are many lead to believe otherwise. Worrying about inches, for 99% of the hunters is nonsensical, but sadly the large majority of those who enter the fields with a LE elk tag in tow are focused on inches rather than experiences and memories.

Nice bull, Andy! I am sure he looks good on a wall.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Those swords sure make him look bigger than that to me! Very nice! It certainly is good to know how to score, but anyone disappointed with that bull is an idiot trying to compensate for other shortcomings!


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

I'm going to play devils advocate here on the inches of horn debate. This will likely be my dad's only time in his life to ever hunt a state like Utah for a bull elk. With that being said, if a respectable bull for that particular unit is 350", I don't want him to go in there shooting the first 280" bull he see's because we both thought it was bigger. That wouldn't be a bull with a good representation of what the unit drawn has to offer or what Utah has to offer for that matter. He is 65 years old. He'll be put on a waiting list for 5 years now after that. So the next chance of him possible drawing a tag would be when he's 70 years old. With that being the case, if we come home empty handed but have a good time together that would be a good representation of a quality Utah hunt in my eyes, rather than going up there and shooting an undersized bull for the sake of bringing something home. I would rather be prepared to identify different classes of bulls when we get there, rather than learn what a bull scores when his once in a lifetime tag is burned with a bull on the ground. And I'll be honest, if a 330" bull comes out first thing the first morning, he will likely get a pass, because of the expectations we have from the people we have talked to in the unit. Now if I was hunting unit 4 in Idaho again, I would shoot a 330" bull the first minute of the hunt if I saw one. I don't think anyone will say a 330" bull is a small bull in a low fenced hunt, but for certain units withing the US, expectations are a little higher. Its kinda like putting in for the Strip in Arizona and shooting the first 170" mulie you see. No one will say that's a small buck or even give you a quizzical look until you tell them where you shot it and when during your hunt. My 2 cents on the matter. But I do think it's important for any quarry you're after to be able to identify or classify the animal you are looking at.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

holding out for a "better" bull or buck on LE hunt is fine as it is a personal choice. So to each their own. The catch is if you pass on an animal because it was not big enough make sure you can accept not filling your tag. Too many have been picky about inches, gone home empty handed, ruined their whole experience, and then commenced to bitching about too many hunters and how we need to up age objectives or ratios. You choose to not shoot so live with it. 338 good luck to your dad and I hope the hunt lives up to your expectations.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

338ultra give these a shot. Look close.
BULL#1
















BULL#2
































BULL#3


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Bull # 1 I would say upper 330's, lower 340's.

Bull # 2 - is throwing me for a loop. He looks to be in the 350's when he's looking at you dead on, but then the last picture of him directly sideways doesn't look like his tines are as long as I was thinking. Looks like he's got good 1's and 2's. 3's and 5's are ok, Royals are a little short, does look to have pretty good beams. A guess... 333 7/8ths.

Bull # 3 - A FREAK OF NATURE. Don't care what he would score, cool looking rack. But for the sake of getting better I would but him at 365"+. Looks like his mass should push him beyond that and giving him 42 - 45" for a spread. 

All of these are gross scores. I have always been the thought of if he grows it, give him credit for it. Be interested to see if I am anywhere close. I also try to put a score on them within 30 seconds of looking.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm playing!!

Bull #1 325

Bull#2 320

Bull#3 335


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Couple of my thoughts .338 is that first off, daddy is getting kind of old...hell, I know what that means...and he may not be able to sustain the riggers of a day-in day-out pursuit of "just a few more inches". I ask you, is a 350 bull a better animal, smarter, more handsome, worth more money, or any other crap like that than is a 290 bull...no, not really. That 290 bull is just as smart and presents just as many challenges to your hunting skills as a bull 40 inches larger! My advise, if you really want to have a memorable hunt based upon hunting skills, woodsmanship and the rules of fair chase, just find a nice bull, 40-50 inches one way or the other really makes no difference. Find a bull that can be hunted within your fathers capabilities and hunt THAT elk only. Make that bull your goal. Study him, stay after him, learn the ways of that bull and finally, when things are right, make the kill. That my friend is what hunting is about! Good luck to you and your dad.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

40-60 inches on a bull makes a HUGE difference... :?

A 290 bull gos on a plaque in the garage.......  

A 350 bull gets a full shoulder mount and gos over the fire place..  

To be admired for a lifetime I might add.....


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Bull#1- 331 1/8 good mass gave him a few extra inches  
Bull#2- 329 3/8 good bull all around but short royals good eye  
Bull#3- 353 1/4 17lbs per side extreme mass here. FREAK OF NATURE? have to see these to appreciate. You did pretty well. Goofy not bad except the last one.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

goofy elk said:


> 40-60 inches on a bull makes a HUGE difference... :?
> 
> A 290 bull gos on a plaque in the garage.......
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more here GOOFY well said. Let me add one thing I love when people brag about the 350 bulls they kill. Never show pictures but sit and say 350 when I can guarantee 90% of the time its 325 and lower.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

BPturkeys said:


> Couple of my thoughts .338 is that first off, daddy is getting kind of old...hell, I know what that means...and he may not be able to sustain the riggers of a day-in day-out pursuit of "just a few more inches". I ask you, is a 350 bull a better animal, smarter, more handsome, worth more money, or any other crap like that than is a 290 bull...no, not really. That 290 bull is just as smart and presents just as many challenges to your hunting skills as a bull 40 inches larger! My advise, if you really want to have a memorable hunt based upon hunting skills, woodsmanship and the rules of fair chase, just find a nice bull, 40-50 inches one way or the other really makes no difference. Find a bull that can be hunted within your fathers capabilities and hunt THAT elk only. Make that bull your goal. Study him, stay after him, learn the ways of that bull and finally, when things are right, make the kill. That my friend is what hunting is about! Good luck to you and your dad.


BP, fair enough. But to answer your question is a 350" bull a better animal, smarter, more handsome, worth more money or any other crap like that than a 290 bull? A better animal? In my eyes, sho'nuff. More handsome? Most definitley. Smarter, don't know that they give elk IQ tests in Utah, but where I come from the older, smarter, harder to kill animals typically sport better head gear. Worth more money? There is absolutley no doubt about it, they are worth more money. You go to any high fenced elk ranch and try to pay the same money for a 350" as you would a 290" and they will have you committed to an institution. Any other crap like that? Not sure what the crap is, but based on my previous answers and the trend they are setting, I would answer yes to that too.

All kidding aside, the 290" bulls, from what I am told, are not going to be the older more mature animals in this unit. They are going to be a dime a dozen and not a "formidable quarry". If we wanted to shoot a 290" bull we would have gone over the counter in Colorado and could have both killed one of those this year. Killing a 290" bull in this unit is like having your pick of any TV in Best Buy and picking a black and white 13" without a remote. Just doesn't make sense to settle for that when you know there's something better out there. If we walk away empty handed so be it. I make a pretty awesome Tag Pot Pie!!!! It goes well with cow elk meat. We'll have fun regardless of what we harvest. It's more of a father-son bonding moment then anything.


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## Wasatch (Nov 22, 2009)

So I'm curious what kind of score the experts would give this bull.....He's only a 5 point, but has great mass. His tooth data aged him at 6 years. Sorry for the small pictures....


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

Bull 1 - 340

bull 2 - 318

bull 3 - 335


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Andyman,,,,,,Thanks for showing what a true 330 gross/323 net bull looks like!!!
> 
> I guarantee 90% of hunters that see that type bull on the hoof are telling everyone
> they saw a 350-360 bull (or more)....................................Every time,,never fails.


nope... they tell em it was 390 to 400..... and then compare him to the spider bull


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Just remember that every bull is a potential 400" bull just like every person can potentially grow to be 7 feet tall. :mrgreen:


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Wasatch said:


> So I'm curious what kind of score the experts would give this bull.....He's only a 5 point, but has great mass. His tooth data aged him at 6 years. Sorry for the small pictures....


I would guess 280" - 290". Nice 5 point.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

295"-305"


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

OK Wasatch, wipe that smile off your face and get back back to reality. Your little elk, as proud as you you may be, is, I am sad to say, only worth hanging in the garage, never to be thought of or admired again. You must realize that a bull of that size can be easily and vitually at will, added to the collection of horn by any "real" trophy hunter. Bulls of this size are a "dime a dozen", kind of like choosing a toostie pop when in a gourmet chocolate store. So Wasatch, get yourself that little piece of plywood and a couple of 16p nails and hang that little feller up someplace were your neighbors can't see, have you no pride at all? You'll think twice next time you go hunting and don't hire a guide to do your hunting for you, come on Wasatch, it's 2011, a new day in hunting is upon us, it's just this simple, massive horn or shame, what'll it be?


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## SteepNDeep (Sep 11, 2007)

Horn shame? Never occurred to me that there was such a thing...kind of an ah ha moment. Maybe SFW leadership is really operating on a psychological need for something bigger...

Horn compensation. 

BTW - post more elk pics and let's guess on score...I'm enjoying the practice. I don't even dare guess I hunt by the mile, not by inches, but I'll try anyway on the shameful (actually AWESOME) 5X.

308


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## Wasatch (Nov 22, 2009)

BP - I know you're just being facetious....Ain't no horn shame in my game! I'm actually very proud of my "little" 5 pt. So proud in fact that he is currently at the taxidermist being mounted and should be in house displayed proudly for me and all the world to see by July! I worked hard all summer last year sighting in, hiking, scouting, learning the area and where the elk were for that "little" guy and it paid off.....Even if he wasn't a 400 inch monster......the satisfaction I felt and still feel are just the same.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Wasatch said:


> BP - I know you're just being facetious....Ain't no horn shame in my game! I'm actually very proud of my "little" 5 pt. So proud in fact that he is currently at the taxidermist being mounted and should be in house displayed proudly for me and all the world to see by July! I worked hard all summer last year sighting in, hiking, scouting, learning the area and where the elk were for that "little" guy and it paid off.....Even if he wasn't a 400 inch monster......the satisfaction I felt and still feel are just the same.


+10000 That is a very nice bull. It has a ton of mass and good color.

Last year my Uncle shot a bull on the Central Mountains, LaSal hunt and most people placed it in the 340+ range, when it was scored it was 270, it is a hell of a bull and he had a great time. He is proud of it and there is not reason he shouldn't be, the crowd that thinks there should be 400" bulls running all over the place is ruining it for everyone, that is my opinion.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

OK, fine, any other of you guys got good stories of pride, stories of how you spent the time, walked the miles, studied the quarry, made the kill on simply a "nice" bull? How about stories about "nice" bulls that weren't even ever scored? Stories of great hunts, time spent with your dad's, or brothers or wives...great, memorable hunts that you will remember your lifetime, stories of bulls or bucks that went un-measured but never forgotten...how about a few stories about hunting. A few more pictures of smiling faces displaying the results a of well played out hunt without judgment based on horn!
Thanks Wasatch, I love your bull and your attitude, you're right on target!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

This bull meant more to me than my pending LE trophy bull will ever mean.

My son was in the tree with me and I hosed this bull on film at six yards. I let him track it and he found the bull all by himself. Being our first successful archery hunt together and his first track job made this hunt priceless. THAT is what it's all about.

BTW, I did score this bull, and with the spread credit he goes 31 6/8. 8)


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Tex that is awesome! My most favorite hunt was a GS deer hunt 2 years ago. Me and my boy were walking down a road and 2 little bucks came across the road and and up the hill. My boy was 4 and he begged me to shoot one. So I snuck up closer and put a little 2 point down. I have never seen him more excited. We dressed it out and then started walking back to the truck to bring it closer. When anybody would drive past us he would yell to them not to touch me and my dads deer and go find your own.
I have never been more proud of a hunt as I was at that moment and knew then how my dad felt when I was a kid hunting with him.
He has the antlers proudly hung in his room and shows his friends and brags about it and how the hunt went down.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

In 2008, it wasn't a very good year for the "horns" here in Texas. I had passed on several up and coming whitetail bucks in 2007 that would have been slaughtered by "meat hunters" and ruined it for all the "trophy hunters". (Doesn't that just sound stupid. None of them or our deer anyway) About November 23rd the rut had kicked in pretty good and I had quite a few new bucks cruising through that I had never seen before. I was sitting on a bluff overlooking a travel cooridor when a bruiser stepped out of the mesquite brush. The deer easily weighed 220lbs on the hoof, but was a typical 8 point frame. Nice looking deer, not a "true trophy", but none-the-less a nice deer for the conditions. On this particular property he would actually been considered a management deer, since he was 5.5 yo+ and an 8 point frame. In other parts of Texas you would have guys lined up to shoot him, because the genetics aren't as good. I tried my best to get a shot on this deer to keep him from passing his genetics on, but at 400 yards and the sun setting behind him, I couldn't ethically take the shot. I hunted this buck for the rest of the year, expecting him to show back up in the same draw. Finally the next to last day of the season, I decided I would hoof it over a couple of other hillsides and see what was cooking in another travel cooridor and hope I could catch a buck running some does. Sure enough I see a glimer of a horn shining through the trees. As he gets closer, I recognize its "Floppy" a buck I see on a regular basis that always breaks his horns before rifle season starts. He walks up the tree line and starts coming across an open field with his ears laid back, so I started looking into the sun (once again) for the other buck. The first silouhette I saw was of a nice doe, then I could make the outline out of a bigger buck. He bluffed ole' Floppy right out of the pasture. I moved to where I had some shade blocking my line of sight so I might get a shot off at this buck. I ranged him at 256 yds, put the cross hairs of the 7mag on his shoulder and squeezed off. Wam, he fell straight to the ground. I thought he was down for the count, then I saw dust flying and watched him as he thrashed his way towards a dry creek bed. Then he disappeared. I took off at a run, down the hillside through the open field towards where he fell. As I got closer I slowed up with my gun at the ready in case he was going to make a break for it. As I approached the edge of the creek bed, I looked down through a cedar tree and saw him laying there, expired. The next hard part was getting him out of the creek bed by myself. This was almost as hard as finding him for a second time. I took my pictures, field dressed him and made the 4.5 hour drive home content on a successful season. He's not the biggest buck I have ever killed, not even close, but his antlers still adorn my office wall for admiration and a memorable season.

Its not always "horns" that a "Trophy Hunter" is after. If they are like me, they study the area they are hunting and want to take the highest quality animal they can find or take out an older animal that will improve the herd. It's said that ya'll want to look down your noses at someone that has a certain standard for the animal they want to kill. We are all sportsman and as long as it's being done ethically, it shouldn't matter if someone wants to meat hunt or horn hunt. I'm not condemning anyone on here for shooting any "little" animals. Congratulations are in order for anyone that takes an animal that lives up to the standards they set for themselves. But to tell someone they shouldn't hunt a certain way or look for certain things in an animal they are putting in the effort to harvest is wrong. If I want to hold out and never shoot an elk that scores under 500" thats my perogative and meat hunters should be happy.... that just leaves more meat for them. 

Now that my thread has been hijacked and hopefully put back on to topic, lets get back to what this thread was originally supposed to be about... Learning to field score horns of an elk. Anyone else have any pictures and scores they can post?


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Great post- Did you ever get the score of Wasatch's 5 point?


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

No, he hasn't posted it. I'm still thinking 280 - 290. Maybe more, it's a nice bull.


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## Wasatch (Nov 22, 2009)

I haven't actually had my bull officially scored. But, when I dropped him off at the taxidermist I asked him what he thought and he rough scored him at about 310 so that is what I've told people if they ask....


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## SteepNDeep (Sep 11, 2007)

NICE. I was close. More pics of measured bulls please.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I've got just a few that I've guided and had scored.... 

Here's one for ya to play with.[attachment=0:2nopcbid]100_1048.jpg[/attachment:2nopcbid]


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## SteepNDeep (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks Goofy. I got lucky on that last guesstimate. I still don't know how to really measure, need to work on learning. 3rds look actually pretty good, 5ths look good too, royals and brow tines good, not amazing...good mass, length, width...how about...

360


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

352


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

372


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

345


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

338"-342"


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## Wasatch (Nov 22, 2009)

I wold guess about 335 - 340...


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

339


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

343


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Goofyelk, my guesstimate is 340-345".


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## borntohunt_1999 (Jun 10, 2011)

343 is my guess as well!


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Some very good guesses on a tough bull to judge!
That bull was tricky because of his good mass and great 1st thru 4th points.
But, short main beams and weak 5ths cost on score...

he grossed 339 and had a net score of 333


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's a couple more for you guys to guess at....

1993 rifle bull.[attachment=1:2ga7wlmw]1993 rifle bull.jpg[/attachment:2ga7wlmw]

2003 archery bull.
[attachment=0:2ga7wlmw]2003 archery bull.jpg[/attachment:2ga7wlmw]


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

When I shot at this bull, I thought I was shooting at a 300" bull. How close was I?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Ridge,,,,,285


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Goofy,,,, 298-rifle
Goofy,,,,,321-archery
Ridge,,,,,,272


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Goofy - 295 and 310.

Ridge - 270-275


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Very good guys! My bull scored 265". It has a very short G-1 on its right side(which is hard to see) and its mass is really week but for a general season any bull, I was more than thrilled with it.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

For 20 years I was paid decent money to field score bull elk, and I must say I was **** good at it. I learned many years ago that I am horrible at scoring elk off of pictures, so I don't even try anymore. IMHO, the advice given by Jay Scott in the link offered on an earlier page are spot on and if learned and followed will get you in the ball park on live bull elk. I enjoy looking at pictures, and I enjoy watching elk hunting videos as much as anyone, but expecting to get any value from guessing scores off of pictures for an upcoming hunt is wasted energy, IMHO. 

Carry on.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> For 20 years I was paid decent money to field score bull elk, and I must say I was **** good at it. I learned many years ago that I am horrible at scoring elk off of pictures, so I don't even try anymore. IMHO, the advice given by Jay Scott in the link offered on an earlier page are spot on and if learned and followed will get you in the ball park on live bull elk. I enjoy looking at pictures, and I enjoy watching elk hunting videos as much as anyone, but expecting to get any value from guessing scores off of pictures for an upcoming hunt is wasted energy, IMHO.
> 
> Carry on.


I think you have a point Bart. For most people, when a "big" bull elk walks out in front of them, they will know it's big enough. No matter what the score is.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > For 20 years I was paid decent money to field score bull elk, and I must say I was **** good at it. I learned many years ago that I am horrible at scoring elk off of pictures, so I don't even try anymore. IMHO, the advice given by Jay Scott in the link offered on an earlier page are spot on and if learned and followed will get you in the ball park on live bull elk. I enjoy looking at pictures, and I enjoy watching elk hunting videos as much as anyone, but expecting to get any value from guessing scores off of pictures for an upcoming hunt is wasted energy, IMHO.
> ...


+1000


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

And thats exactly why ULTRA 338 is painting a picture in his mind so he knows for sure when that BIG bull elk walks out. That way when the decent bulls walk they continue walking. Bart fair reply but WASTED ENERGY? 90% of the wintering bulls I rough score them threw a scope and picture. If I happen to pick them up I'm usually within 10-15, so I beleive a picture tells a thousand words.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Then, pheaz, you have mad skills that I have NO chance of obtaining! I can't accurately judge animals from pictures, that you can is impressive. I am NOT trying to discourage ULTRA 338, I am simply sharing my opinion that is based on 20+ years of being paid to score elk in a split second, and from 1000's of hours in the field observing/hunting/KILLING bull elk. To each their own, if one doesn't agree with my advice, they can simply ignore it...................

I am not sure I know you, so it is kind of creepy for you to call me by my real name instead of my user name. Do I know you in 'real life'?


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Not that I'm aware of.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

I think Bart was mentioned in a previous email by another poster. 

I'll take any practice that I can get, whether it be pictures or live animals. Unfortunatley I was born of the Flat Land here in Texas, where elk haven't roamed in a 100+ years. And as far as I know of there haven't been any spotted in the corn fields that fill up Central Texas. 

I hope to get some field judging time in Utah and New Mexico this year, but until then all I've got are pictures and video. For me it's not a waste of energy... heck I could be wasting that same energy working. I would much rather be looking at pictures of any bull elk and guessing what they might have scored. 

Proutodoors.... In your experience what stands out the most when looking at a bull in the field to make a snap judgement on score? I've looked at the videos that Jay Scott has on youtube on guessing the score of bulls and they were really helpful.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

I am no proutdoors.....but for me the one thing that I look at the most to make a snap judgement is main beam length. If he's turned sideways does he look like he could scratch his rump with his antlers by just laying them back? If he has that and the tines look proportionally long you've got a good bull and one worth taking a much closer look at.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

338ultra said:


> Proutdoors.... In your experience what stands out the most when looking at a bull in the field to make a snap judgement on score? I've looked at the videos that Jay Scott has on youtube on guessing the score of bulls and they were really helpful.


For me, if something really stands out I focus on that, otherwise I look for good main beam length and the brow tines. Usually, NOT always, a bull with long main beams and solid brow tines, will be an older bull that should score well. I then look for broken/abnormal points. If I don't see any major weaknesses at this point, I feel comfortable that I am looking at a good bull. If I have more time, I then pick the rack apart inch by inch.

Like I said before, if pictures work for you, go for it, I just can't do it. For me, nothing compares to seeing elk in person, obviously. Video footage that offers different angles can be valuable. It helps if once you watch footage, to have a confirmation on what the bull actually scored, or an 'experts' field score.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

One other thing in regards to main beam length, if a bull has lots of mass the beam length may look shorter than it is, and if a bull has thin antlers they will tend to look longer than they really are. Having a point of reference of something you know the length of, or real close to what it is, helps.


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## Andymansavage (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks for making me feel a little better guys. Every day when I walk by this weak rack some of the bitterness and anger is melted away. Just think of the time spent scouting in the beautiful mountains and 5 days on the hunt with family wasted on a non 400" bull .......I could have spent that time in the office or on a golf course and not thrown it away on a dink 330" bull......










all joking aside, I am not great at guessing scores, I just knew when I saw this bull that He was mature (aged at 8 ), heavy, and I wanted to take him. It's cool if guys old out for book bulls, I just wanted one that got my heart pumping, and looked over quite a few before finding one.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Andy, that's a nice bull. Think I would have had to have taken him too. 

Wish you hadn't posted the score so we could all take guesses at him though. Way to go, you ruined the game for us


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## bigbuckhunter64 (May 6, 2008)

Thats a great bull Andy, and he was taken from one of the best places in the state if you ask me!


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## borntohunt_1999 (Jun 10, 2011)

Here is the bull I was able to harvest last year in Utah. After waiting many years to finally draw a Utah LE elk tag, this was a hunt I will never forget. After looking over many bulls, most of which had busted antlers, I was super happy when we spotted this bull. The next morning we moved in for a closer look, and as mentioned when he stepped out I just knew he was the one. At that point in time my three buddies were talking score and making guesses. I just remember saying, feel free to make guesses, but score does not matter, this is the bull. I loved the mass, and the way the main beams went way past his 5ths.

My 2010 Utah LE Bull (Late Hunt)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/ ... 0065-1.jpg


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## borntohunt_1999 (Jun 10, 2011)

Not sure why it showed up as a link and did not include the picture in the post. If someone knows how to fix it let me know.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

With that angle, I am going to guess the long beams like you mentioned, the good 3rds and the good 5ths get him to 335 - 340" range. Might have overshot him a little, but I can't tell how long the brows and seconds are.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Great mass!!! 329-333 from this angle mid 320s the more I look


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I would guess that last bull to be in the 330 range.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

320-325


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

So GOOFY and Borntohunt what they score?


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

borntohunt_1999 said:


> Not sure why it showed up as a link and did not include the picture in the post. If someone knows how to fix it let me know.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Here's a couple bulls I got video of this past weekend on a general season unit. That second bull might make it to the 300" mark. What do you guys think. Probably would be passed on by most, on a LE unit but a great any bull unit trophy.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Hey Ridge,,,
That's cool you got video of the bull my boy is going to shoot with his youth tag!!! 8) 

Just kidding of course.....  

But, that is the caliber bull we will be looking for,,,
And I believe we might have a couple like that located as well.

Are you hunting general bulls ridge??? If so, I hope ya get one..


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Goofy, I'm going to pass on the elk hunt this year and my wife is seriously pissed about it. Most spouses get upset about us hunting too much but mine can't have enough elk meat in the freezer. lol PM sent


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

I don't know what these score, but would like to hear everybodies guess. I know the pictures aren't the best. But giving all of them the benefit of the doubt and a 6x6 frame.

#1









#2









#3


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

First bull goes 365 to 370, second one about 345, and third bull I put at 265.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

1- given the other side is similiar-375ish
2- given the fronts are similiar-345ish
3- little pisser bull-260


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Another picture of the big bull. Any guess at how long his main beams are? Will they go 55"?


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Dandy bull you got found there  
Given from the base of the antler to the tip of his nose is 16 inches. YES I would say that he may be 54 or 55 inches. 8)
Any front pics on the width :?:


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Ok. So my dad and I did not get the biggest bull in the picture above, but another hunter in camp did. The bull grossed out at 406" and netted 398 3/8ths". The guy that shot him is native to Utah and had seen him on opening morning at 700 yards. Dad and I never got on him. We are still hunting and trying to get one of the other big bulls we've seen. Thought ya'll might like to know what he scored, since some ventured a guess.


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## 338ultra (May 29, 2011)

Oh and Pheaz. His left and right main beams were withing 2/8ths inch of each other and right at 56 4/8ths. His daggers weren't as long as I thought, they were just a hair under 24".He was extremely symetrical though. HUGE body on him. We didn't have a big enough scale, but they had an estimated weight on him at 1,000lbs. The local game warden came by and said the same thing. Awesome animal and an awesome guy who shot him.


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

alright guys here is my 2005 open bull, tell me what he scores I have only had him gross scored so ill post the score later.

hes a 5x6 by the way.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

So 1 4/8 off on beam thats pretty close. I wished you was posting him for your dad though. Congrats to the hunter. So I will take a shot at the bull above 270 area?


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

281


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

you guys are a little of but the pictures dont do him justice.
Right side Left side
main: 50 main: 53
first: 16 first: 16
second: 18 second: 18
third: 11 third: 8
fourth: 16 fourth: 16
fifth: NA fifth: 10

Mass
1st mass: 9 1st mass: 9
2nd mass: 7 2nd mass: 7
3rd mass: 6 3rd mass: 6
4th mass: na 4th mass: 6

width: 36 inside

Total Gross Score: 319


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Never in a million years would I have thought those beams were close to 50 from the picture. Deceiver!


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

yea Tree they are very deciving every time i show the pictures everybody under guesses him because of his mains,  he even shocked me when we had him scored.


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

Just an FYI. I believe every bull gets 4 mass measurements per side no matter how many points they have.


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

I thought if it was a 5 then the fourth mass mesurment dose not get measured because in the book i have it says mass measuerment between fourth and fifth point. but i make no claim to be an expert if thats the cases he might be a 324 bull but either way iam tickled clear to death to shot a bull like this in an open bull unit.


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

You would have two mass measurements on the 5th point. Even a spike bull gets 4 mass measurements on each side.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Here is a good little test too; I have a hard time with teh smaller ones, but when they are 300-350 I am usually pretty close. 
http://bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/art ... ldjudging/


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