# 25-06 for elk??



## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok so my 10 yr old daughter passed hunters safety and is really wanting to get a rifle of her own. Ive been pouring over and over ballistics and recoil tables to try and find the right mix of light recoil and versatility. Ive looked at the .243, 25-06, .257 Roberts, 6.8 spc, 260 Rem and 7mm-08. As of now shes been shooting my 223 in an AK platform with no recoil pad and 68gr bullets and as expected she could shoot it all day with no complaints. I guess as of now I am leaning towards the 25-06 but noticed that the largest bullets available are 120gr. I hope to get her on a youth elk hunt sooner or later and I know bullet placement is crucial but I'm looking for opinions on that gun for elk or as a starter rifle in general that will hopefully last a lifetime.

Also she needs a rifle with a max of 12" draw to begin shooting right away otherwise we will have to wait until her arms grow a little bit lol


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Get her a custom 30-378 with a BOSS. lol My wifes grandfather has one and it kicks like a 30-30. Fun gun and long range to boot.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Get her a custom 30-378 with a BOSS. lol My wifes grandfather has one and it kicks like a 30-30. Fun gun and long range to boot.


Not all of us are rich like you lunkerhunter2 :lol: Those are some expensive cartridges!

What about a less expensive 257 WBY? Read Vmax's post on it, sounded cool to me.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28343

Seems like similar topics pop up periodically on this for wives and daughters and the overwhelming cry seems to be the 7mm-08. I dont know a lot about performance, but I know the one that I had the privilege of shooting (yes it was a pleasure Sawsman) was very nice to shoot and light on recoil.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Actually I did look at the 257 WBY but at 17lbs of recoil we are up there with the 270win and 30-06 Im trying to stay under 12 to start with. which is the upper end of recoil on the 7mm-08. The 243 to give an example, runs around 9lbs with a 100gr bullet and the 223 is around 4lbs with the 62gr bullet she has been shooting. 

Oh and Lunker you met my daughter lol can you imagine her holding a gun like that lol although it would be nice to own one for sure.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I dont know how much recoil the 30-30 has, but you cant go wrong with a classic caliber like that. And we know those are very mild


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Bax* said:


> lunkerhunter2 said:
> 
> 
> > Get her a custom 30-378 with a BOSS. lol My wifes grandfather has one and it kicks like a 30-30. Fun gun and long range to boot.
> ...


I said my WIFES GRANDFATHER. I am so broke i can't pay attention. :shock:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Bax* said:
> 
> 
> > lunkerhunter2 said:
> ...


LOL. I understand. I cant imagine paying $60 for unprimed brass to reload those things (and thats just 20 pieces!)


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

S and Ed's has the Rossi Combo for $279. Comes with a .22 barrel, 20 ga. and .243. My son is 7 and it fits him good enough i would buy it for him. It is a bit heavier so the recoil will be less too. Just a thought.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I love the 30-30 and in fact I have a 194? model 94 Win her great grandfather gave me on his death bed when I was her age. I'm sure she will shoot it and someday inherit it when she realizes the significance of it. The more I read about the 7mm-08 the more I like it. I just looked up some reloading data and I can get the recoil pretty low on the gun going with a 100gr bullet and a light charge. I'm thinking that may be the way to go.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> S and Ed's has the Rossi Combo for $279. Comes with a .22 barrel, 20 ga. and .243. My son is 7 and it fits him good enough i would buy it for him. It is a bit heavier so the recoil will be less too. Just a thought.


I had a bad experience with those. That's the first gun I bought my son and we were lucky to get 2 inch groups at 100yds with the 243. Also what ever you do, when you change barrels from one to the other and back do not assume the rifle barrel is still on lol. It cost us a nice buck his first year thinking it was at all like my Pro Hunter. It has to be sighted back in after its put back on.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

That Model 94 will be a treasure for her someday!

With the 7mm-08, you could shoot some Remington Managed Recoil loads that claim a 50% reduction in recoil (read the reviews)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=116133

Totally on a side note: The 94 is on its way back
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Defa ... code=84107


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Huh, so much for that idea.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

There's a small following of 25-06 elk guys over here in Southwest Wyoming. They just use the same gun for antelope, deer, and elk. Although the 25-06 is one of my favorite calibers, I think it's too small for elk, lacks downrange energy at longer distances compared to other 30-06-based cartridges.

The 7mm-08 is a good caliber for big game and Remington is offering it in a youth (compact) rifle. I have been going to load some 7mm-08 reduced loads for the grandkids but instead I have been weaning them on .308 with Remington's reduced loads and .243s. (and I really don't want my 7mm-08s scratched up  ) 

The .308 is always agreat choice. .308 shells are moderately priced, readily available in a large variety of bullet and load configurations, and youngsters get along with the short action rifles well. You can start with reduced loads and then go to normal loads when the child gets older.

The single shot rifles by New England Arms are good for young beginners. The Handi-Rifle comes in a 7mm-08.

Good luck.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I was just going to ask if anybody knew who makes youth model rifles in the 7mm-08. Thanks Goob for reading my mind lol.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> I was just going to ask if anybody knew who makes youth model rifles in the 7mm-08. Thanks Goob for reading my mind lol.


You're welcome.

I think at one time Remington had youth models in the short-action Model 7s. I think they had shorter barrels and like a 13" LOP. I bet if you shopped around on GunsAmerica or Gunbroker you could find some.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

7-08 would work, and a 308 would be even more versatile. either way, I can help you with some "youth" loads.
We use small amounts of h4895 and 125gr ballistic tips in my kimber 308 for the kiddies. they call them "green hornets" (due to the green polymer tip) and so far nobody has noticed the extra recoil from the case full of varget and 150 gr ballistic tips when they've shot at deer and antelope  I have the scope marked to adjust for the two different loads without having to shoot to verify.
My 25-06 really doesnt kick much less than my 270, gotta draw the line somewhere I suppose.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

25-06 will definitely do the trick on elk. I know several guys who hunt with the 25-06 and love the heck out of it, plus it gives you another long range varmint option.

If I had to choose between the 7-08 and the 308, I'd go with the .308 for the versatility, ammo availability and you can really crank it up and shoot some big loads yourself. 308 (depending on your twist rate) you can likely load a 200gr bullet, whereas the .284 you're probably only gonna be shooting at the heaviest a 160?


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

chet said:


> and so far nobody has noticed the extra recoil from the case full of varget and 150 gr ballistic tips when they've shot at deer and antelope


Chet you make a really good point here. When you have that adrenaline pumping when you have your animal in your sights, recoil is barely noticed.

So Bo0YaA, you really could get her trained on "light" loads and then put a better performing bullet down the hole when you are hunting


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Ha, Ha *goob*!- loved this:
Last edited by wyogoob on Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total. 
Reason: fix spelling errors, like anyone would give a s^%#
:lol:

All those calibers will kill an elk. The .243 is probably not the best choice. Like Bax* mentioned, the 7mm-08 has little recoil. My 7mm-08 has a heavy barrel so that probably helps. It also helps to steady when shooting but is a con when carrying. A short action/bolt throw will be a bonus if follow up shots are needed. As always bullet placement will be paramount. Whichever one she shoots, it will be important that she is comfortable with it. It would be nice if she could shoot a couple before making a purchase just to she which one she likes and which one "feels" the best when shouldered. I know it is not always possible but if it is, it would be good.

Consider the overall weight too. The lighter the better for carrying long distances, but probably wont help in the recoil department.

Good luck.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Good call Goob I was just looking at the reduced loads for the 308 and wow I can load some with a 150gr bullet running around 1925fps and only generate about 8lbs recoil. That makes for a very pleasant little gun with huge potential. Not to mention how much easier it should be to find a youth model.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

sawsman said:


> Ha, Ha *goob*!- loved this:
> Last edited by wyogoob on Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
> Reason: fix spelling errors, like anyone would give a s^%#
> :lol:
> ...


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Savage model 11 and Howa model 1500 have youth model rifles in .308.

I had a Howa (Smith & Wesson)1500 in a 25-06 carbine back in the day. What a shooter!


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Its funny I started this post pretty much set on a 25-06 then I went to the 7mm-08, then 308 and now I'm back to thinking a 7mm-08 is the best choice hahah god I hate decisions like this. Got just enough money to do it once and want to make sure I do it right. I compared the low recoil loads for the 308 and the 7mm-08 and the 7 still preforms better and with lower recoil. In fact in almost every comparable load up the charts, the 7mm-08 preforms better, as well, or darn close to the 308 and does so with a lower recoil. I am actually quite intrigued by this cartridge. Im wishing I had looked at it much sooner for my son and perhaps even my wife.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

I noticed the Marlin XS7 comes in youth size, in .308 or 7mm-08. Mossberg has the 100ATR Super Bantam in .308.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I noticed that as well but the XS7 I looked at was still 42" long and they were calling it a youth.... how is that a youth unless the draw is 12" or under. On a few sites I found the 100ATR bantam in the 7mm-08 but showed out of stock and the Mossberg site site does not show it at all. Im really curious about that one because those are great little starter rifles. My son has one in the 30-06 and it shoots really good for under $300.00


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## Troutsman (Aug 13, 2010)

You can always reduce recoil by porting and getting a good pad. I used to live in Alaska and a few friends of mine up there start their 10 year olds on either a 300 mag ported and padded or a 7mm ported and padded. It makes for a great gun when you have the ability to grow with the cartridge and its versatile loads and grains. My Brother went with the 308 for his 9 year old last year and had it ported and padded and he took a nice Caribou off the north slope with it. Similar in size, but, the elk can withstand much more impact then a Caribou.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Bo0YaA said:


> I noticed that as well but the XS7 I looked at was still 42" long and they were calling it a youth.... how is that a youth unless the draw is 12" or under. On a few sites I found the 100ATR bantam in the 7mm-08 but showed out of stock and the Mossberg site site does not show it at all. Im really curious about that one because those are great little starter rifles. My son has one in the 30-06 and it shoots really good for under $300.00


Marlin really needs to get on board with their website. They list the same lengths (42 1/2) for the XL7, XS7, and the XS7Y (youth). That didn't sit right with me so I did a little searching and found some other forums that mentioned the youth XS7 is shorter than the standard XS7. It may be worth an email to Marlin asking what the actual LOP is on the XS7 youth if you're still shopping for 7mm-08.

It looks like Mossberg dropped 7mm-08 entirely. .243 and .308 are the only short actions listed.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Here's a nice one.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalo ... r-firearms

Browning makes a great firearm in my opinion. They say this new X-Bolt is a dandy if you can afford it. A little pricey..

I have a Browning A-Bolt in another caliber and really like it.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ive owned an A-bolt as well and it was a great gun even though I didn't shoot very good groups with it ( 2 inch ) could have been me who knows. Its a bummer Mossberg dropped that gun I really like their ATR100 Bantam and would have gone with that in a second. I will have to call Marlin and see what the deal is on the XS7Y, it looks to be a decent starter gun. My other thought is just going with a H&R Handi Rifle however, Ive heard people say they aren't the most accurate guns but I guess for $250.00 one cant be overly picky lol.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

You could also look for a deal on KSL.com or gunbroker.com to see if you can find something that is a good deal


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## Nvbuck (Dec 20, 2007)

I have had a 25-06 since i was 16 that was 35 years ago and have taken alot of critters with that little gun including 6 elk for years i shot the 120 grs because they were the most available but when i started to reload i use the barnes 100 gr ttsx and that almost makes it a new gun my son shot a cow elk with it last year with that load and it killed her as quick as i think my .300 would of if i had to choose one gun out of my safe if would be tough to leave that one behind by the way its a rem.model 700 has had hundreds if not thousands of rounds through it and it will still shoot 3/4" all day long


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Bought my wife a 25-06 last year. She loves it! Kept at a max range of 200 yards, it will take elk just fine.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I know a few guys who have killed several elk with the 25-06 using premium 115-120 grain bullets like the Nosler partition. I personally think that the 308 win is the best choice for young hunters as recoil can be managed while using larger/heavier bullets that are still effective at medium ranges. For starters, Remington offers some great reduced-recoil loads that my daughter started shooting when she was 6 years old. The other nice thing is that later, very powerful 165-180 grn loads can be used in this caliber to take almost any big game handily. My 13 year old daughter shoots 130grn Barnes TSX bullets at 3000fps very well out to ranges far beyond where I would allow her to shoot at big game. I shoot a 25-06 Ackley for myself, but that is another story!! ------------SS


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ive gone back and forth about 10 different times but I have actually settled on the 308. I looked up a few loads using a 110gr. at 1980 fps which is like 7lbs recoil (less then a 243) for working her into the gun and her hunting load can be a 125gr. Nosler ballistic tip at 2300fps which only produces around 9lbs recoil. Im sure she will work up to the heavier loads but for now these will work. It was the bullet selection, availability of ammo, price of ammo and the fact that adding the 308 to my collection will mean I have 4 of the most popular hunting calibers ever made 30-30, 308, 30-06 & 300 Win also I can interchange bullets between all of them which is a huge plus. Now I just need my 30-378 and I'm done lol.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

How about buying a Ruger M77 Compact in 7-08? It weighs just 6lbs and I bet this would fit her perfect!
http://galleryofguns.com/genie/Default. ... code=84107

You can get this in a .308, .243, .223 as well..... I'm just trying to get you to buy a new gun.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I like to start with a given bullet weight and velocity. Then find the caliber where that bullet weight is about 3/4 of the way up the scale of available bullet weights at the velocity I want to shoot. Say you want to shoot 150gr at about 2800fps. For example,you can find 150 gr bullets for 6.5mm, .270, 7mm, .30 cal, .33 cal and even .35 cal. A quick look shows the 150gr falls about 3/4 of the way up of available bullet weight for cal.270 and 7mm., about in the middle for .30 cal and toward the bottom for the bigger calibers. So I would choose the .270 or 7mm. Now, which specific one? . Find a case that is nearly full with power to produce those velocities. A nearly full case will almost always produce a more accurate, nicer shooting round than a stuffed full or half empty case. 7mm Mauser...a little small, 7mm Mag, maybe a little to big,....7mm-08 ...bingo... just right. Now if you come up with some odd ball that is hard to find and the selection of available rifles is small, or features on the available rifles are not what you want or other factors, factor them in before you make your final decision on the gun you want. Just remember, no matter what the little honey says, a guy just can't have too many guns.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

This is the one I think Im going to go with. http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Defa ... &pid=&inv= The have actually gone to a fluted barrel since I bought my boy one in the 30-06. For under $400.00 and adjustable length of pull from 12" to 13" its a nice little gun. I get your meaning BP and in a lot of ways I agree but I thing if I go with a 125gr at even 2500fps its going to be a light recoil and still be an effective killer out to 150-200 yards. Once she grows into it she can go full power and be good out to 300+


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

Bax* said:


> lunkerhunter2 said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="Bax*":168p7cii]
> ...


LOL. I understand. I cant imagine paying $60 for unprimed brass to reload those things (and thats just 20 pieces!)[/quote:168p7cii]

i do it.... love that gun, but it adds up QUICK!


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