# GSP Recommendations



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Unfortunately due to a recent dog death I am beginning my research on getting a new pup. Also, my first official hunting dog. I am looking to get a GSP in early spring. Sex not decided quite yet. I learned from my mistake on getting a dog from a backyard breeder and I'm really looking to do it right this time. So, Im looking for good experiences or recommendations on GSP breeders. Willing to travel a decent amount but would like to keep it within 5 hours of the Orem area. I am looking at joining navhda to get feedback and help from the local community. I also plan to involve some professional trainers this time around so, I would like to get some feedback on local trainers. This time the closer the better as I would like to visit as much as possible. My plan was to train the basics and socialize the first 4-6 months than send it to a professional to start it on birds/hunting for 2-3 months. What is generally a good timeline/age to send a dog to a trainer? Thanks for any help on my long winded post. I'm just trying to gather as much info as possible so I can place a deposit in the next few months.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Nobody's got a good shorthair on here??


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Good for you for wanting a quality breeder. I was in the same predicament with finding a solid Labrador. Here's what I found while looking.....There are a $hitload of backyard breeders out there that throw two AKC registered dogs together to make a litter of pups. The parents have NO health clearances for EIC testing, eyes, hips or elbows, and they offer no guarantees with the pups. They are after quick money. These folks are asking anywhere from $600 on up for backyard breedings. No wonder the Lab rescues are full.

I went with a reputable breeder/breeding for the same money, and got health clearances on parents and a guarantee on the puppy. I pick him up on Thursday.

Sorry I can't help you with a GSP. Good luck in your search!

You may want to look out of state and have one flown in. Probably not necessary as I'm sure there are quality breeders in Utah, but don't limit your search.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Fowlmouth said:


> Good for you for wanting a quality breeder. I was in the same predicament with finding a solid Labrador. Here's what I found while looking.....There are a $hitload of backyard breeders out there that throw two AKC registered dogs together to make a litter of pups. The parents have NO health clearances for EIC testing, eyes, hips or elbows, and they offer no guarantees with the pups. They are after quick money. These folks are asking anywhere from $600 on up for backyard breedings. No wonder the Lab rescues are full.
> 
> I went with a reputable breeder/breeding for the same money, and got health clearances on parents and a guarantee on the puppy. I pick him up on Thursday.
> 
> ...


Thanks fowlmouth!! I bet your getting very anxious for thursday to come! I have been looking out of state as well I was very interested in an outlander dog she's in Wyoming but she 1+ year out on her next breeding. As of right now I'm not finding many litter announcements yet for the spring So I'm just trying to get info on different breeders. as you said health tests from both parents and puppie, solid pedigree, and navhda/hunt tests is what I'm after. I have been getting a lot of good info over on the wasatch navhda Facebook page but I'm interested in any leads and thought I might get something here too.


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

Outlander produces some nice dogs. A couple other local places you can get in touch with are:

"Get Some" Versatile Hunting Dogs LLC.

Midas Creek Kennels

If they are not producing pups maybe they can point you in the right direction.
Good luck in your search...


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

I'm a pointer guy so I can't help you with your GSP puppy quest but I do have a question regarding sending your future dog to a pro trainer right off the bat--I guess the question is why? If you don't have the time to train your dog how will you have the time to hunt your dog? I don't mean to come off as a jerk, just trying to understand the reasoning.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

Go to http://www.gundogbreeders.com/ and look at the 100's of options.

I know Tyler at "Get Some Versatile Hunting Dogs." He's a good guy, and he's serious about his dogs. He guides out at Wastach Wing and Clay, so you could watch his dogs in action if you were interested.

It seems like many of the guys at Wasatch NAVHDA run pudelpointers or drahts, which is interesting. I'd never even heard of either of those dogs until about 10 years ago.

Good luck with your quest. I've been obsessed with getting a bird dog for years--just too chicken to take the plunge.


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## HeberHunter (Nov 13, 2014)

I was looking at getting a GSP awhile back and planned to go with best gun dogs out of Beaver. I ended up finding a half English Pointer/Half German Shorthair Pointer Mix that someone bought on an impulse and sold to me a week later. He is 12 weeks now and I am loving him. I plan to make him a versatile hunting dog running both waterfowl and upland game. He already points at the chickens in the back yard and does well retrieving and dropping on command. I am very excited about his potential. Just remember, these dogs need TONS of space to run and need a good run every morning and every night. Otherwise they get bored and chew on EVERYTHING. I live in Coalville and run him a few miles on the rail trail every day. A lot more work in terms of exercise than all the labs I have raised but I can tell he is way smarter than any lab I have ever owned. Not bagging on labs, just my observation. So far I love this breed.

http://bestgundogs.com/


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Airborne said:


> I'm a pointer guy so I can't help you with your GSP puppy quest but I do have a question regarding sending your future dog to a pro trainer right off the bat--I guess the question is why? If you don't have the time to train your dog how will you have the time to hunt your dog? I don't mean to come off as a jerk, just trying to understand the reasoning.


Hmm.. not trying to be a jerk either but I don't remember saying time was an issue.. I do work 50+ hours a week but I am willing to get up early and spend a lot of my free time training/working with my dog. Hunting is a major priority in my life and between scouting, big game and birds I put 50-75 days a year if not more in the field. My reasoning is I'm starting pretty much from ground zero training a hunting dog. I don't know anyone with hunting dogs to help me out. I'm treating this as a 12-15 year investment and don't mind spending some money do get some professional guidance and training. I would like to do as much training as I can by myself and hopefully navhda can help me there. I don't necessarily need to send her off right away that's why I was inquiring about when it would be a good time to start the serious bird training. I've been reading a lot and talking to quite a few people over on navhda. I also plan to go help out on some training days and during the NA testing so i can talk to people in person and see some dogs work. There are multiple reasons why I'm waiting till spring to get the pup but extra time to be fully prepared is a big one. I'm not taking it lightly.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

HeberHunter said:


> I was looking at getting a GSP awhile back and planned to go with best gun dogs out of Beaver. I ended up finding a half English Pointer/Half German Shorthair Pointer Mix that someone bought on an impulse and sold to me a week later. He is 12 weeks now and I am loving him. I plan to make him a versatile hunting dog running both waterfowl and upland game. He already points at the chickens in the back yard and does well retrieving and dropping on command. I am very excited about his potential. Just remember, these dogs need TONS of space to run and need a good run every morning and every night. Otherwise they get bored and chew on EVERYTHING. I live in Coalville and run him a few miles on the rail trail every day. A lot more work in terms of exercise than all the labs I have raised but I can tell he is way smarter than any lab I have ever owned. Not bagging on labs, just my observation. So far I love this breed.
> 
> http://bestgundogs.com/


Thanks! I have looked at best gun dogs I like that he is also a trainer. I plan on talking to him to get some more info!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

AF CYN said:


> Go to http://www.gundogbreeders.com/ and look at the 100's of options.
> 
> I know Tyler at "Get Some Versatile Hunting Dogs." He's a good guy, and he's serious about his dogs. He guides out at Wastach Wing and Clay, so you could watch his dogs in action if you were interested.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Is this the same Tyler that's breeding DK's? His breeder name is vom hochland. I have looked over gundogbreeders.com but it's hard to know who's good so I was hoping for some personal feedback. When I get my pup trained up we will have to hit the hills! Maybe that will push you over the edge on getting a pup!


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

PM Sent.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

brendo said:


> Hmm.. not trying to be a jerk either but I don't remember saying time was an issue.. I do work 50+ hours a week but I am willing to get up early and spend a lot of my free time training/working with my dog. Hunting is a major priority in my life and between scouting, big game and birds I put 50-75 days a year if not more in the field. My reasoning is I'm starting pretty much from ground zero training a hunting dog. I don't know anyone with hunting dogs to help me out. I'm treating this as a 12-15 year investment and don't mind spending some money do get some professional guidance and training. I would like to do as much training as I can by myself and hopefully navhda can help me there. I don't necessarily need to send her off right away that's why I was inquiring about when it would be a good time to start the serious bird training. I've been reading a lot and talking to quite a few people over on navhda. I also plan to go help out on some training days and during the NA testing so i can talk to people in person and see some dogs work. There are multiple reasons why I'm waiting till spring to get the pup but extra time to be fully prepared is a big one. I'm not taking it lightly.


Good response.

Here are a few questions to ponder:

Are you going to build a kennel or is this a house dog?

Where is the dog going to spend the time you are at work/out of town?

Is your spouse (if you have one) on board with this? Your children need to be a consideration as well

Do you have a fenced back yard? Are you prepared for it to get torn up?

What type of food are you going to feed the dog? What's your plan for disposing of it's poop?

If it's an outside kennel dog have you thought about a dog house or the associated costs with building these things?

If it's an inside dog have you thought about it tearing up the house, shedding everywhere?

Have you researched vaccination schedules, vet checks, teeth cleaning, how often to worm, etc?

What prey species are you primarily going to hunt? Do you have a plan to train accordingly

What training books/videos have you read/watched?

What collar systems are you going to use? Are you going to use a separate beeper/shock collar than GPS tracker collar? Do you know the cost of these things?

What bird vest and other equipment do you plan on using?

Do you own a 4-wheel drive pickup to transport you are your dog to hunting areas?

It's good that you are taking this seriously and it's best to go in with eyes wide open. Having a bird dog is a *major lifestyle change*, you can't put in the gun safe when done with it. You will get out of your dog whatever you put in to it. After the newness wears off of the dog it is work and a lot of it--be prepared for it.

Here is some advice regarding upland game--#1->wild bird contacts make a bird dog. That's worth saying again...wild bird contacts make a bird dog

If you want a primary hunting dog take this advice, if you want a trial dog then disregard->Too many guys get caught up in pigeons and yard training and testing and yada yada when the very best thing you can do with your dog is to hunt it. That is the beauty of a pointing upland dog. All you have to do is hunt the heck out of it and things will come together generally on its own. If it's mid August through mid April and you are packing up to take your dog to a testing or going to 'train' it on some pigeons or a pheasant farm birds you are doing yourself and your dog a disservice. Go for a grouse hike in the high mountains if it's hot, go to the desert for a Chukar hike if it's cool.

Read Ben O. William's book 'Bird Dog' or any of his other books for that matter.

Send PMs to every *Credible* bird dog guy on this forum and ask if you can talk to them on the phone and pick their brains. Have questions planned and take notes, do the same with facebook people. Yeah it seems dumb but a general 'help me out' thread isn't going to get great info. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Few people are lucky enough to have a good mentor fall into their lap.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Airborne said:


> brendo said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm.. not trying to be a jerk either but I don't remember saying time was an issue.. I do work 50+ hours a week but I am willing to get up early and spend a lot of my free time training/working with my dog. Hunting is a major priority in my life and between scouting, big game and birds I put 50-75 days a year if not more in the field. My reasoning is I'm starting pretty much from ground zero training a hunting dog. I don't know anyone with hunting dogs to help me out. I'm treating this as a 12-15 year investment and don't mind spending some money do get some professional guidance and training. I would like to do as much training as I can by myself and hopefully navhda can help me there. I don't necessarily need to send her off right away that's why I was inquiring about when it would be a good time to start the serious bird training. I've been reading a lot and talking to quite a few people over on navhda. I also plan to go help out on some training days and during the NA testing so i can talk to people in person and see some dogs work. There are multiple reasons why I'm waiting till spring to get the pup but extra time to be fully prepared is a big one. I'm not taking it lightly.
> ...


I appreciate your comments. I have had 2 dogs the last 4 years so I know full well what to expect with dog ownership. As stated in my first post I'm searching for a new pup because one of mine passed away. I am just beginning my research so my "help me out thread" was really only looking for reputable breeders and trainers. To start talking too. Thank you for the suggestion on the book I'll pick that one up!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Airborne said:


> Here is some advice regarding upland game--#1->wild bird contacts make a bird dog. That's worth saying again...wild bird contacts make a bird dog
> 
> If you want a primary hunting dog take this advice, if you want a trial dog then disregard->Too many guys get caught up in pigeons and yard training and testing and yada yada when the very best thing you can do with your dog is to hunt it. That is the beauty of a pointing upland dog. All you have to do is hunt the heck out of it and things will come together generally on its own. If it's mid August through mid April and you are packing up to take your dog to a testing or going to 'train' it on some pigeons or a pheasant farm birds you are doing yourself and your dog a disservice. Go for a grouse hike in the high mountains if it's hot, go to the desert for a Chukar hike if it's cool."
> 
> I can't say I disagree about getting dogs on wild birds as often as you can. I do think pigeons, domestic chukars, quail, pheasants and ducks are good training tools to set a foundation and get a pup started in the right direction. The bottom line is any bird is better than no bird.


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## Winglish (Mar 28, 2015)

Fowlmouth said:


> Airborne said:
> 
> 
> > Here is some advice regarding upland game--#1->wild bird contacts make a bird dog. That's worth saying again...wild bird contacts make a bird dog
> ...


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Winglish said:


> Fowlmouth said:
> 
> 
> > Airborne said:
> ...


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I rarely post on these things anymore, but what the heck.

I agree with the wild bird contacts, but I would add to it.

I would call it disciplined wild bird contacts. It isn't the dog that needs to show discipline or restraint but the handler. Let me explain. I run a first year dog on as many wild birds as possible and I shoot a bunch of birds for that young dog, but I only shoot pointed birds. It can take some restraint to let wild birds that the young dog doesn't handle correctly fly away, but I believe it is necessary to do so. Once I have taken a dog through a real hunting season of only shooting pointed wild birds the dog will often be partially broke naturally. I use some pen raised birds to further the breaking process and then both wild and pen raised to finish the breaking process. I use pigeons for puppy games and a few things through the process but not all that much. I break mine to wing shot and fall when they are young with the thought that I am going to let them come back some. They are usually broke to shot in the end when hunting. In NSTRA the the dang things eventually start chasing once the bird is in the air. :-| I am okay with that. Its your dog so train him the way you want him. This is what works well for me.

The guys that keep their dogs dead broke are far more disciplined than I, and I admire and respect that. 

Training your dog shouldn't be hard work. It should be fun. Sure, It becomes work and gets tiresome preparing older dogs for trials all the time, but developing a young dog from pup to finished hunting dog is about the most fun a guy like us can have. The best part!!!

The shorthairs that I have been most impressed with belong to Brandon Downs. There are many other guys around that have good ones too. If I were looking I would call him even if for nothing else than to pick his brain. He always seems to have nice dogs.

I'm a setter man myself. So I dont know GSP Blood but I've watched plenty, hunted with some, and competed against many. Even owned one when I was young. They are great dogs and should be an excellent breed choice.

Good luck. I'm always around if I can be of help to you in any way.

Bret


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Bret said:


> I rarely post on these things anymore, but what the heck.
> 
> I agree with the wild bird contacts, but I would add to it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bret, I was hoping you'd Chime in. you have always been very helpful to me when I ask questions. I love watching you when your on Adam eakles show. Keep up the good work!


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Brendo!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Just want to post an update to everyone who helped me out. I found a litter that looks to be really good. I've talked to the owner a bit and everything seems to just fit. So I've placed a deposit and If everything goes well I should have a pup in December. It's out of aspen hill gundogs in Minnesota. The dam is top gun lineage back to her great grandparents and the sire is sharpshooters cash the number one producing sire in navhdas breeder award litters. Cash recently passed away so it will be awesome to have a pup from him. I'm beyond excited it's gonna be a long few months.. I attached the pedigree for all the pedigree nerds out there!


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