# Watch today's Wildlife Board meeting



## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

The Utah Wildlife Board will meet this morning at 9 a.m. Today's agenda covers a wide range of topics, including big game hunts and season dates for 2018.

If you can't attend the meeting in person, we're broadcasting it live via YouTube.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I missed the first part, anyone watch that has a summary of anything interesting that might have occurred?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

No archery only sheep tags.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

This multi-season general elk hunt discussion is interesting. They are talking about whether they need a cap on the amount of permits sold, or just making all 15,000 the multi-season tags. 

The DWR is more concerned about the pressure on their system than they are the pressure on our elk and hunting. Yikes!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I do not like what they did with the multi-season elk. So every general season elk tag is now multi-season and will cost $150, if I understand this correctly. So if I am only a rifle hunter, I now will pay three times what that same exact tag cost me last year. 

All along I operated on the understanding that this was going to be a limited number, but it was for ALL permits. There absolutely should have been a cap on this.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> I do not like what they did with the multi-season elk. So every general season elk tag is now multi-season and will cost $150, if I understand this correctly. So if I am only a rifle hunter, I now will pay three times what that same exact tag cost me last year.
> 
> All along I operated on the understanding that this was going to be a limited number, but it was for ALL permits. There absolutely should have been a cap on this.


I didn't interpret it this way. All 15,000 could be multiseason permits, though people are still free to choose between rifle, muzzy, or multiseason. They all come from the same pool.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Is this really happening? 150$ for an over the counter tag? That is outrageous


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Vanilla said:


> I do not like what they did with the multi-season elk. So every general season elk tag is now multi-season and will cost $150, if I understand this correctly. So if I am only a rifle hunter, I now will pay three times what that same exact tag cost me last year.
> 
> All along I operated on the understanding that this was going to be a limited number, but it was for ALL permits. There absolutely should have been a cap on this.


And the way I understood before was that the total permit numbers would stay the same but we would have the option of purchasing a multi $150 or choosing a single $50 until the quota was met.

I didnt listen in but if what your understanding is correct it seems I will be adding the cost of a muzzy at a minium to get more bang for my buck and possibly get myself a bow also. Elk hunting just got a lot more expensive if all general elk tags are $150.

Its unfortunate, and this will not help get the wife and kids involved in elk hunting. Im already trying to work a budget so I can afford to shell out $450 on just the permit fees for my wife, 12 year old and myself. Not to mention if my oldest wakes up and decides she wants to hunt too.

No way my wife will go for this....

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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Is this really happening? 150$ for an over the counter tag? That is outrageous


And that's why I think only a couple thousand will be sold at best. I know I won't buy one in the next few years.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

nocturnalenemy said:


> I didn't interpret it this way. All 15,000 could be multiseason permits, though people are still free to choose between rifle, muzzy, or multiseason. They all come from the same pool.


You might be right, and I hope your interpretation is correct. But that was not stated at any time in the meeting.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

TPrawitt91 said:


> Is this really happening? 150$ for an over the counter tag? That is outrageous


Then don't buy it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I'll tell ya, that discussion on either sex harvest on the muzzleloader elk hunt had me looking online at the time of purchasing a muzzleloader!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'll be honest, that's the only reason I've ever bought archery spike tags... specifically to shoot a cow.


-DallanC


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Then don't buy it.


If I have a choice to still buy a $50 archery elk tag I can promise you I won't.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

TPrawitt91 said:


> If I have a choice to still buy a $50 archery elk tag I can promise you I won't.


You'll still have that option. I'll be buying the 3 season tag myself, and could really care less if I get an elk.


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

nocturnalenemy said:


> I didn't interpret it this way. All 15,000 could be multiseason permits, though people are still free to choose between rifle, muzzy, or multiseason. They all come from the same pool.


This interpretation is correct. You will still have the option to purchase a general spike or any bull permit for $50 (either archery, any weapon or muzzleloader) *OR* a multiseason permit for $150 (all three seasons). The multiseason permits will come out of the spike/any bull quotas.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Amy said:


> This interpretation is correct. You will still have the option to purchase a general spike or any bull permit for $50 (either archery, any weapon or muzzleloader) *OR* a multiseason permit for $150 (all three seasons). The multiseason permits will come out of the spike/any bull quotas.


Whew. Thanks Amy!!!!

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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Amy said:


> This interpretation is correct. You will still have the option to purchase a general spike or any bull permit for $50 (either archery, any weapon or muzzleloader) *OR* a multiseason permit for $150 (all three seasons). The multiseason permits will come out of the spike/any bull quotas.


So I guess the real question here is can you still hunt extended archery with the multi season tag?


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

TPrawitt91 said:


> So I guess the real question here is can you still hunt extended archery with the multi season tag?


Yes. If you purchase the multiseason permit, you can still participate in the extended archery hunt.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification Amy! 

I will be interested to see how many buy all 3 seasons. I'm sure a good amount will, but I bet it's below the 5,000 cap that was originally proposed in the first motion, but failed.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I bet it's below the cap as well. If I wasn't a non-resident for the next few years, I'd probably pick up the 3 season tag. Instead a late season cow tag will have to suffice.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

The moose, pronghorn, and northern region deer plans passed as presented. I'm happy about the moose plan - it looks like we may see increased opportunities to hunt them in the coming years.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I sure hope I get my moose tag this spring then so I have the chance to harvest a +6 year old bull before they all get killed off though tag increases.










-DallanC


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

DallanC said:


> I sure hope I get my moose tag this spring then so I have the chance to harvest a +6 year old bull before they all get killed off though tag increases.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd recommend going back and watching the presentation made during the wildlife board meeting. There's a graph comparing antler spread with age, and it shows that there is very little difference in antler spread after age 4 (I'd post up it now, but Youtube doesn't let me rewind a live broadcast). That's part of the reason for the change.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I haven't had time to go back and watch it so what happened to the:

Late LE deer muzzle loader hunt on general season units? 

Mentor program?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Critter said:


> I haven't had time to go back and watch it so what happened to the:
> 
> Late LE deer muzzle loader hunt on general season units?
> 
> Mentor program?


The meeting is live. They still haven't gotten to the mentor program changes. They're on item 13 of the agenda (see below) as I type this.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/board/2017-11_board_agenda.pdf

I wasn't able to watch the big game section.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> Late LE deer muzzle loader hunt on general season units?


That proposal was voted down.

-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Seems like the 3 season elk tag is custom made for the ones that are dedicated hunters already for deer.
Maybe not so much for one dimensional hunters though.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

middlefork said:


> Seems like the 3 season elk tag is custom made for the ones that are dedicated hunters already for deer.
> Maybe not so much for one dimensional hunters though.


Why do you say that. I don't know very many people that can take that much time off from work. I know I can. I would have to make a decision to do one or the other.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I sure hope I get my moose tag this spring then so I have the chance to harvest a +6 year old bull before they all get killed off though tag increases.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...show off;-) I'm hoping the same...but know better.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Hahah oh man its hilarious to hear them discuss the mentor stuff. Especially when it was brought up that there is a statue already where its illegal for any person to kill two antlered animals of the same species, so they just voted make that legal now, because a mentor might get multiple buck or bull tags in a year.


-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> Why do you say that. I don't know very many people that can take that much time off from work. I know I can. I would have to make a decision to do one or the other.


Well call me crazy but why would MOST people become dedicated hunters if not for the opportunity to hunt multiple seasons. If you are already hunting deer why not shoot an elk if the opportunity arise?

I applied for a cow tag this season for that very reason. Why not a spike or Any bull?

Even if you only hunt weekends or Saturday only it is still more days to try and be successful than just the general season.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Is anyone having luck watching the meeting from the beginning? When I go to it on YouTube, it starts it off in the middle, after most of the big game recommendations.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Clarq said:


> Is anyone having luck watching the meeting from the beginning? When I go to it on YouTube, it starts it off in the middle, after most of the big game recommendations.


It is a live event so it can't rewind. They may post a link to the recording you can watch at a later date.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

middlefork said:


> Well call me crazy but why would MOST people become dedicated hunters if not for the opportunity to hunt multiple seasons. If you are already hunting deer why not shoot an elk if the opportunity arise?
> 
> I applied for a cow tag this season for that very reason. Why not a spike or Any bull?
> 
> Even if you only hunt weekends or Saturday only it is still more days to try and be successful than just the general season.


Sure the archery hunts run together but the deer and elk muzzleloader and rifle hunts don't. So if you wanted to do it all, that would be 5 different hunting seasons. It sure would be fun but I don't have that much time. 
I just don't think all that many people will end up doing it but who knows. They will be doing surveys, so we will see.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Packout said:


> It is a live event so it can't rewind. They may post a link to the recording you can watch at a later date.


Yeah, I'm referring to the recording. It picks up in the middle, but I can rewind only to a little before the moose plan presentation starts.


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## GrandpaG (Dec 1, 2017)

Amy,
How will the new mentor program effect landowner tags. Will we be able to mentor kids that are neighbors or sons or daughters of friends with our tag?


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

What changes did they make to the moose plan going forward?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

silentstalker said:


> What changes did they make to the moose plan going forward?


The age objective is now 3.75 - 4.25.

They're also going to try to hold populations at more stable levels, since the population tends to crash if it gets too high. They said antlerless harvest will be utilized more aggressively than it has in the past. They're also planning some transplants to augment existing populations, and potentially start a new population on the Tushar Mountains.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

So we should be seeing more permits next year? That is great news for me sitting on 21 pts.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Clarq said:


> The age objective is now 3.75 - 4.25.
> 
> They're also going to try to hold populations at more stable levels, since the population tends to crash if it gets too high. They said antlerless harvest will be utilized more aggressively than it has in the past. They're also planning some transplants to augment existing populations, and potentially start a new population on the Tushar Mountains.


I didn't notice the Tushar proposal in the packet, but I would love to see them try and start a population there, that excited me quite a bit, but I worry it will be hard to convince livestock guys to get on board with it. It would be amazing if the Tushars could support a moose population.

PS, I missed the first couple hours of the meeting and I'm having the same issue as you with the recording. It's picking up with the last 3 hours but cuts off the first 5 hours of the meeting hopefully they fix it, I'd like to see the discussion beforehand.


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

GrandpaG said:


> Amy,
> How will the new mentor program effect landowner tags. Will we be able to mentor kids that are neighbors or sons or daughters of friends with our tag?


Yes. Any adult with a permit can mentor any youth as long as:


The youth's parent provides written permission (will be part of the application)
The youth has not already been mentored for that same species/sex in the current hunt year
The youth is eligible to hunt (age requirements, hunter education, etc.)


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Amy said:


> [*]The youth is eligible to hunt (age requirements, hunter education, etc.)


Minus the hunter safety, don't need that in Utah anymore


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

How's the split deer season going to affect dedicated hunter? Are they going to get to hunt that season also?

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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Recording of WB Meeting :


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> Sure the archery hunts run together but the deer and elk muzzleloader and rifle hunts don't. So if you wanted to do it all, that would be 5 different hunting seasons. It sure would be fun but I don't have that much time.
> I just don't think all that many people will end up doing it but who knows. They will be doing surveys, so we will see.


If you draw a late season cow elk, you can fill that tag during any other hunt in the same unit.

So, I can hunt elk during the archery deer, muzzleloader deer, and rifle deer as along as my cow tag is in that same unit. It doesn't matter when / if I harvest my deer. I can harvest a deer on the first day of the archery deer hunt, and still hunt cow elk during muzzle deer and rifle deer on that same unit.

I already get to do the "dedicated" elk hunting, assuming I draw a cow tag.
I certainly won't be spending $150 for a "multi" season elk tag.


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## elkantlers (Feb 27, 2014)

PBH said:


> *If you draw a late season cow elk, you can fill that tag during any other hunt in the same unit.*
> 
> So, I can hunt elk during the archery deer, muzzleloader deer, and rifle deer as along as my cow tag is in that same unit. It doesn't matter when / if I harvest my deer. I can harvest a deer on the first day of the archery deer hunt, and still hunt cow elk during muzzle deer and rifle deer on that same unit.
> 
> ...


Thats not correct. You can hunt then during any season you already have a permit to hunt. If you have an archery elk tag, you can hunt your antlerless elk during that hunt but not during the rifle or muzzy hunt.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

elkantlers said:


> Thats not correct. You can hunt then during any season you already have a permit to hunt. If you have an archery elk tag, you can hunt your antlerless elk during that hunt but not during the rifle or muzzy hunt.


Reading his post I assume he is dedicated hunter for deer. In which case he can hunt his cow during all the deer seasons, if he hasn't harvested a deer.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Reading his post I assume he is dedicated hunter for deer. In which case he can hunt his cow during all the deer seasons, if he hasn't harvested a deer.


Even if he has harvested, he can hunt his cow during the remaining seasons.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

elkantlers said:


> Thats not correct. You can hunt then during any season you already have a permit to hunt. If you have an archery elk tag, you can hunt your antlerless elk during that hunt but not during the rifle or muzzy hunt.


That's correct. I should have clarified by stating that you can fill that tag during any other hunt _that you have a permit for_ in the same unit.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

nocturnalenemy said:


> Even if he has harvested, he can hunt his cow during the remaining seasons.


I did not know that. I assumed you had to have a valid permit, and once you fill a permit isn't it no longer valid?

So I looked it up:

(c) A person that possess an unfilled antlerless elk permit and harvests an animal under authority of a permit listed in Subsection (b), may continue hunting antlerless elk as prescribed in Subsections (a) and (b) during the remaining portions of the Subsection (b) permit season.

Purrrdddy neat!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> So I looked it up.





R657-5 - Taking Big Game said:


> (4)(c) A person that possess an unfilled antlerless elk permit and harvests an animal under authority of a permit listed in Subsection (b), may continue hunting antlerless elk as prescribed in Subsections (a) and (b) during the remaining portions of the Subsection (b) permit season.
> 
> Subsection (b)
> (i) General buck deer for archery, muzzleloader or any legal weapon;
> ...


There is no mention of whether or not the 'tag' has been filled during any of the hunts of subsection (b). You only need the permit.

Definition permit: means a document, including a stamp, which grants authority to engage in specific activities.

Definition tag: means a card, label or other identification device issued for attachment to the carcass of protected wildlife.

clear as mud. ;-)


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

PBH said:


> There is no mention of whether or not the 'tag' has been filled during any of the hunts of subsection (b). You only need the permit.
> 
> Definition permit: means a document, including a stamp, which grants authority to engage in specific activities.
> 
> ...


Yeah I didn't post the whole thing because it gets so messy. Especially the way the site is formatted. i II a B BB a I Ib B A II c Subsection I sub b BC... You get it lol.

That is cool though. I just assumed once you harvested you couldn't. My brother in law had a cow tag a few years ago and was muzzy hunting deer and was sooo nervous to shoot a cow. He kept seeing them but was just not comfortable. I like that he isn't a shoot first guy. This caused me to look into it more just to confirm that it was the case ( elk and deer units are different for me). I didn't make it to this part as I just thought, no way. Some things Utah does for opportunity, like this, are pretty cool!

I am not hung up on seasons when it comes to a cow tag. Shoot, I get these private land ones now that are insane, August through January! I usually wait for times like now, when there is snow and I am sad that all the seasons are done, to head out,.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

PBH said:


> There is no mention of whether or not the 'tag' has been filled during any of the hunts of subsection (b). You only need the permit.
> 
> Definition permit: means a document, including a stamp, which grants authority to engage in specific activities.
> 
> ...


In spite of the fact that we often use the terms interchangeably, the tag and the permit are separate legal documents that are attached and numbered the same for the convenience of the hunter, the Division and the laws. Once they are separated, they have to be considered solely on their own, thus if you separate them, the tag is considered used, even if it's not attached to an animal, but the permit is still legal. That's why the DWR uses the word "permit" when making presentations, drafting the rules, printing the Guidebooks, etc.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

elkfromabove said:


> In spite of the fact that we often use the terms interchangeably, the tag and the permit are separate legal documents that are attached and numbered the same for the convenience of the hunter, the Division and the laws. Once they are separated, they have to be considered solely on their own, thus if you separate them, the tag is considered used, even if it's not attached to an animal, but the permit is still legal. That's why the DWR uses the word "permit" when making presentations, drafting the rules, printing the Guidebooks, etc.


Well shoot dang. After all this knowledge I might as well run for Wildlife Board


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