# 2019 Expo Results



## Slayer (Feb 3, 2013)

The results are up now.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Alot of Heber folks drawing wasatch tags


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## cdbright (Aug 24, 2016)

they must have miss spelled my name Completely


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

A lot of out of staters drew this year, more than normal??


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

katorade said:


> A lot of out of staters drew this year, more than normal??


Ya!! I noticed that too. Both moose tags, one was non resident only but still the odds for a non resi to get the open tag must of been bad. Thats kind of a kick in the teeth. 2 sheep tags and all the lion tags except 2. Swept the dutton elk tags. People from New Jersey, Hawaii, Texas drew. Sheesh. Non residents seemed to draw way more than normal to me too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## Ol_Boy23 (Mar 1, 2018)

Anybody hit the lottery?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Swing and a miss for me! A family friend drew a mountain goat tag. Congrats to all those who drew.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I just looked through the results to see if there were any recognizable names or frequent flyers drawing tags. I noticed a familiar name with Chad Mendes from Sacramento, California drawing the Zion Desert bighorn sheep tag. There is a high profile UFC fighter named Chad Mendes who is an avid hunter who hangs out with the hushin guys. I just checked his Wikipedia and it looks like he lives in Sacramento, California. I think I have found a match. If you don't recognize that name you probably know the name of the dude that whooped him back in July of 2015, Conor McGregor.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Kendall Jones and Chad Mendes both drew.. give me a freaking break. This thing is so rigged it's ridiculous. 


Yes it's UFC Mendes - the one affiliated with Mtn Ops who is now associated with Don P and Co.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

First time I have every put in. 


And I drew manti


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Hoopermat said:


> First time I have every put in.
> 
> And I drew manti


Nice! Congrats.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Rigged?
Ive always HIGHLY doughted that.
Heck, 53 NRs drew this year...
Several hunters I personally know from central Utah drew this year!

NONE of the locals I know have ties with anyone involved with SFW or the other politics.................!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Woohoo!! I won a Spike Elk tag for the San Juan Archery!!

8)


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Hoopermat said:


> First time I have every put in.
> 
> And I drew manti


 Manti what?


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Manti archery elk


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Congrats Hoopermat!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Nope....swing and a miss!


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Rigged?
> Ive always HIGHLY doughted that.
> Heck, 53 NRs drew this year...
> Several hunters I personally know from central Utah drew this year!
> ...


I always see this argument being made. The argument of, "I know some joe randoms that drew a tag, so it's obviously not rigged." That's not the argument anybody is trying to make. I think most of us "whiners" and "conspiracy theorists" (or whatever else the SFW cheerleaders want to call us) agree that the majority of the tags are allocated via random draw, but some of the statistical anomalies that we have been witness to are just a little too much to pass the smell test and not start setting off some BS detectors. Joseph DeRoest of Lehi, Utah drawing his 6th tag? Really? How many tags did Mossback groupies Heather and Will Farrar draw between the two of them? There has just been an inordinate amount of repeats successful applicants, families with ties winning multiple tags, high profile folks drawing coveted tags year after year after year. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion on this one ,Goof, and I am entitled to mine, but I don't see eye to eye with you on this one.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Wasn't there a thread on here last year where someone posted the info of all the multiple time tag drawers, and families with multiple tags drawn between them? I swear there was. Someone posted something similar on bowhunters of Utah a few days ago.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Hoopermat said:


> Manti archery elk


Congrats on the draw! I put in for that same hunt with max points, so I will most likely be doing that hunt as well this year.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

This was the first time I have ever put in for expo tags. We got some free tickets and so we went this year. 

I never win anything so this is exciting. Now the down side I have never steeped foot in the manti unit. So now I have a ton of homework and am already planning scouting trips all summer. And a ton of google earth scouting also. 
Can’t wait for the snow to melt now so I can get my boots on the ground.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Congrats on the draw! I put in for that same hunt with max points, so I will most likely be doing that hunt as well this year.


I thought about cashing points in this year as well for archery, but decided to just donate instead.

Congrats on the Manti draw


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> I thought about cashing points in this year as well for archery, but decided to just donate instead.
> 
> Congrats on the Manti draw


What the hell, HDE?! I need a hunting partner. You still have a couple more weeks to correct this.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> Rigged?
> Ive always HIGHLY doughted that.
> Heck, 53 NRs drew this year...
> Several hunters I personally know from central Utah drew this year!
> ...


Yeah I have known Joe Blow who drew also. Two friends drew last year. But there are far too many inconsistencies with people drawing that are close to SFW/Mossback/MDF. AND, they don't usually just get some tag, they get OIAL and Premiums. You think that a guy in his basement using spreadsheets on a non-public algorithm can't change results? Hmm...

Also - I googled most the non res. It can be completely random, but it's odd that so many have "hunting" results as the first hit. A lot of these people aren't "strangers" to the SFW.

I'm not a sore loser. Seeing one of "our own" snag something like that Manti tag is amazing!! But knowing even a minuscule amount of the behind-doors stuff that I do know, I don't put much past these groups. You are right though, RMEF probably didn't have a good proposal and Don Peay is just friends with a lot of "lucky" people.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Hoopermat said:


> This was the first time I have ever put in for expo tags. We got some free tickets and so we went this year.
> 
> I never win anything so this is exciting. Now the down side I have never steeped foot in the manti unit. So now I have a ton of homework and am already planning scouting trips all summer. And a ton of google earth scouting also.
> Can't wait for the snow to melt now so I can get my boots on the ground.


Do some forum searches on here and Monster Muleys and whatever other Utah hunting forums you can think of. There is a wealth of information about the Manti on the webs.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I fear with the snowfall levels this winter, most of the skyline drive won't be accessible with wheeled vehicles until mid July.


-DallanC


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

cdbright said:


> they must have miss spelled my name Completely


Well, they misspelled my city. I am from Orem, Not Roosevelt. Landon Robison


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I always like every year when folks start calling those that drew tags a conspiracy without any facts of it besides knowing someone or being a member of SFW.

These draws have gathered enough attention over the years that I doubt that they would even think of trying to get someone a tag other than a legit draw.

If any of you have some actual evidence I would like to see it.

By the way I have no affiliation with SFW in any form.



DallanC said:


> I fear with the snowfall levels this winter, most of the skyline drive won't be accessible with wheeled vehicles until mid July.
> 
> -DallanC


One nice thing about Skyline Drive is that if you get blocked by snow you can always come in from the other direction. There are enough roads up there that there usually a ways to get into areas. You might have to take a hundred mile detour but you can do it.


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Wasn't there a thread on here last year where someone posted the info of all the multiple time tag drawers, and families with multiple tags drawn between them? I swear there was. Someone posted something similar on bowhunters of Utah a few days ago.


"the_herd_bull" posted this on Instagram yesterday.

"William Farrar -
2010 LE Cougar Beaver Unit
2012 Bull Elk LE Archery Manti

Heather Farrar -
2016 Buck Deer Premium Paunsagaunt
2018 Buck Deer Book Cliffs South

Darick Mower -
2007 Bull Elk Wasatch
2011 Turkey
2016 Bull Elk Wasatch

Greg Mower -
2013 tag, unknown

Carl Albrecht -
2010 Desert Bighorn tag
2013 tag, unknown

Tyler and Taylor Albrecht -
2015 Cougar
2015 Paunsagaunt Elk

Mark Albrecht -
2011 Buck Deer

Mitchell Albrecht -
2007 Bull Elk Nebo

Brian Hartley -
2012 Bull Elk, Dutton
2014 Mountain Goat, Ogden
2016 Pronghorn, SW Desert

Damon Larson -
2009 Pronghorn, Dutton
2010 Pronghorn, Dutton
2012 Pronghorn, San Rafael
2016 Pronghorn, Parker Mountain

Paul Nordhoff -
2010 Bull Elk, Book Cliffs
2011 Pronghorn

Matthew Nordhoff -
2009 Cougar
2014 Pronghorn
2014 Bull Elk
2017 Black Bear

Sean Nordhoff -
2017 Buck Deer"

Now, I cannot say that these are 100% accurate, i'm just posting what I saw. Is this what you were referring to CCG?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Critter said:


> These draws have gathered enough attention over the years that I doubt that they would even think of trying to get someone a tag other than a legit draw.
> 
> If any of you have some actual evidence I would like to see it.


They are not even trying to hide their charades anymore. Keep in mind, the 200 tags were given to SFW when SFW didn't even apply for them. RMEF was the ONLY group to submit a proposal during the RFP period. They don't even care to try and act like it is above board.

They hire a dude to do the draw that the company who is supposed to be doing it (a company of one, out of his own home) didn't even have a valid business license.

The skepticism is fair, and rooted in evidence, not just mere speculation.

Critter, I do not have evidence that the draw is rigged for certain individuals that I can share on this forum at this time, but I should not have to. These are public resources, and accountable to the public. We should not have to guess whether it was done correctly, that information should be published and available for public inspection, just like any other public resource issue. However, it's not. And SFW has fought tooth and nail to keep it that way. Any time someone is doing that when it comes to public resources, you should ask questions until the answers are given. It is our right, and it is their duty.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I fear with the snowfall levels this winter, most of the skyline drive won't be accessible with wheeled vehicles until mid July.
> 
> -DallanC


No dought!
I just told a freind yesterday, the South Skyline might be August 1st this year!


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

No the the sykline will be open sooner. we heard sheep across it around the 4th of July whether there is snow or not. I've seen us winch the sheep camp through 4 foot drifts before and that really melts the snow fast.


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## Ol_Boy23 (Mar 1, 2018)

I agree with vanilla on his perspective.. It makes me feel like they throw a couple joe blows names in there to make it seem “random”


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Ol_Boy23 said:


> I agree with vanilla on his perspective.. It makes me feel like they throw a couple joe blows names in there to make it seem "random"


You guys that want the Expo gone,
All you need to do is PROVE its rigged............
They will loose those permits in two seconds!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> You guys that want the Expo gone,
> All you need to do is PROVE its rigged............
> They will loose those permits in two seconds!


Says who? They openly rigged who got the contract. They did it in plain sight. They didn't even try and hide it.

Why would they care about a few rigged tags when those that are supposed to care rigged it for SFW?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> You guys that want the Expo gone,
> All you need to do is PROVE its rigged............
> They will loose those permits in two seconds!


What would you, Critter, and the rest of the "nothing to see here" crowd be willing to accept as proof and how would we obtain this proof? Just let me know and I'll do it!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

We have this same thread every year............

I have no idea if the expo draw is rigged or not. I do know this. $FW could eliminate almost all the doubt and "reasonable" conspiracy theories simply by being open ( and audited/refereed) in how they conduct their drawing or by using a recognized, accredited 3rd party. 

But they don't...........-Ov-


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Hoopermat said:


> This was the first time I have ever put in for expo tags. We got some free tickets and so we went this year.
> 
> I never win anything so this is exciting. Now the down side I have never steeped foot in the manti unit. So now I have a ton of homework and am already planning scouting trips all summer. And a ton of google earth scouting also.
> Can't wait for the snow to melt now so I can get my boots on the ground.


I hunt the unit every year and have seen some dandy bulls. Granted those are in early Oct. but I don't mind sharing some info as the season nears if you need it.

Unless I draw the LE tags I put in for of course....but even then, it's a big mountain with plenty of animals to go around.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Catherder said:


> We have this same thread every year............
> 
> I have no idea if the expo draw is rigged or not. I do know this. $FW could eliminate almost all the doubt and "reasonable" conspiracy theories simply by being open ( and audited/refereed) in how they do they conduct their drawing or by using a recognized, accredited 3rd party.
> 
> But they don't...........-Ov-


EXACTLY!

It's impossible to prove because the only ones with the evidence, are those who it would incriminate.

And our Wildlife board, composed of their friends, has no reason to care. Shoot, they voted AGAINST a proposal that would have sent more money BACK TO THEM! If that wasn't enough to sway them why would some of us tin foil wearers matter? A board that determines what's in the best interest of our wildlife, determined that it was better to have other organizations have the money rather than the DWR. Don Peay's multiple 6 figure income from SFW is in our best interest guys... nothing to see here.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

KineKilla said:


> Hoopermat said:
> 
> 
> > This was the first time I have ever put in for expo tags. We got some free tickets and so we went this year.
> ...


thanks. I'm going to do a bunch of scouting as soon as I can get into the area. But local knowledge is always helpful. I might shoot you a pm if I can't find what I'm looking for


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Hoopermat said:


> thanks. I'm going to do a bunch of scouting as soon as I can get into the area. But local knowledge is always helpful. I might shoot you a pm if I can't find what I'm looking for


I spend some time in the Manti. Happy to help where possible!


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

I spend about 70% of my summer on the north end of the Manti, feel free to shoot me a PM!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The way I look at the thing with SFW is that as long as it has been going on someone would of said something to someone who would of then told someone in authority, or someone that was ticked off enough at SFW to say something.

As a example, we have a RMEF chapter in our area that held a banquet a number of years ago. While there were no game tags involved there were enough high end prizes to draw a little bit of attention. Guess what, the chapters presidents father in law won a truck, and his sister in law won a real nice rifle. The two top prizes. Even before the next week was done the brown stuff had hit the fan. A number of the chapter authorities had resigned and there were threats of legal proceedings from the county DA. It took a while before this chapter was back on it's feet. 

The truck was turned in along with the rifle and all the other lesser prizes that the family had won. 

You just can't keep something this big quiet, there is always someone watching for a slip up. And while I don't condone what the WB did in giving SFW the contract or SFW's accounting practices I actually think that the draws are legit. None of us know how many tickets some of these winners have purchased, weather it is one or a hundred.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> The way I look at the thing with SFW is that as long as it has been going on someone would of said something to someone who would of then told someone in authority, or someone that was ticked off enough at SFW to say something.
> 
> As a example, we have a RMEF chapter in our area that held a banquet a number of years ago. While there were no game tags involved there were enough high end prizes to draw a little bit of attention. Guess what, the chapters presidents father in law won a truck, and his sister in law won a real nice rifle. The two top prizes. Even before the next week was done the brown stuff had hit the fan. A number of the chapter authorities had resigned and there were threats of legal proceedings from the county DA. It took a while before this chapter was back on it's feet.
> 
> ...


Umm... one is a respectful organization and one.. nevermind.

Again.. The ONLY people who know are ones making money. "Something this big"... There are MUCH bigger things in government and orgs that are kept even quieter lol. They already have slipped up - and the people who could do something about it are... dun dun dunnnnnn - their friends. Don Peay knows the governor very well, Zinke, Trump, Trump Jr., but yeah - our wildlife board composed of over 50% SFW really cares what happens to the tags whose profit they freely give to a private org.


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

I don't know whether its rigged or not, but I think we can all admit that it sure seems to smells funny. 

Anyone can create a randomization program that will select random records from a table. Which is why the only ask i have, is to publish the code. I doubt whatever program they are using to do the 'draw' has some proprietary randomization algorithm. There are a handful of proven reliable algorithms that can come as close as possible to simulating 'random' that I doubt this is doing more that they would want to keep secret.

But in a few hours, I could write a simple app that would pull x number of records from a table. I could spend a little more time to take away some of the randomness to maybe make sure that 5 out of 10 times I draw the record I want. It's not difficult.

The way I see it, if they have nothing to hide they should open source the code. Keep a public resource public.


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## Ol_Boy23 (Mar 1, 2018)

I just think they should make the drawing process public.. If they aren’t doing anything shady then why not make it public instead of being hush hush about how the process is?


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## cedar (Jul 29, 2013)

I am one of those lucky people.

Early manti rifle.not familiar with unit.a lot of scouting summer trip for me.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

cedar said:


> I am one of those lucky people.
> 
> Early manti rifle.not familiar with unit.a lot of scouting summer trip for me.


What!!?? Hell ya Cedar!!!

UWN kicking arse on the manti expo draws! Hoopermat and now Cedar!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## cedar (Jul 29, 2013)

3arabians said:


> What!!?? Hell ya Cedar!!!
> 
> UWN kicking arse on the manti expo draws! Hoopermat and now Cedar!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


This was my second year applying for expo and still can not believe it.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Cedar, that’s going to be a great tag to have this year. That’s exciting stuff. Manti is a really cool unit, and it holds some awesome bulls.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

colorcountrygunner said:


> What the hell, HDE?! I need a hunting partner. You still have a couple more weeks to correct this.


I would've put in had I not put my daughter in for an OIL archery elk hunt. She is turning 17 this year and won't be around much longer before life gets in the way. Would hate to have to turn in a Manti tag because she drew.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

cedar said:


> I am one of those lucky people.
> 
> Early manti rifle.not familiar with unit.a lot of scouting summer trip for me.


Early rifle elk? 
I could have some info for you after the archery hunt. Hit me up after archery season.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> I would've put in had I not put my daughter in for an OIL archery elk hunt. She is turning 17 this year and won't be around much longer before life gets in the way. Would hate to have to turn in a Manti tag because she drew.


Understandable. I hope she draws it and you guys have a great hunt!


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## cedar (Jul 29, 2013)

Hoopermat said:


> Early rifle elk?
> I could have some info for you after the archery hunt. Hit me up after archery season.


Hoopermat,I need the info and i appreciate you


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

cedar said:


> This was my second year applying for expo and still can not believe it.


I was just about ready to post that I'm done putting in for expo tags for good, after seeing the lopsided amount of nonresidents that drew. 
Then I see your post and I have a renewed hope. Maybe that's SFWs game plan.lol
Anyway, Congrats and good luck this summer and fall. -()/-


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## Rdog (May 17, 2018)

Hoopermat said:


> This was the first time I have ever put in for expo tags. We got some free tickets and so we went this year.
> 
> I never win anything so this is exciting. Now the down side I have never steeped foot in the manti unit. So now I have a ton of homework and am already planning scouting trips all summer. And a ton of google earth scouting also.
> Can't wait for the snow to melt now so I can get my boots on the ground.


Hit me up when the regular draw results come out in May so I know none of my relatives drew the same tag and I'll give ya some pointers. I spent spring, summer and fall up there last year for my muzzleloader tag and would be happy to pass on what I learned. I didn't end up shooting a monster but I sure had a blast seeing lots of big ones out there while scouting.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Critter said:


> ...
> These draws have gathered enough attention over the years that I doubt that they would even think of trying to get someone a tag other than a legit draw.
> 
> If any of you have some actual evidence I would like to see it.
> ...


I think the point they are making is that there is no oversight or accountability. You can shine a light on a subject but as long as you can put a smoke screen to blur it the light won't get through.

I am a show me the proof guy but in the grand scheme of things I can understand how statistically the draw results can raise an eyebrow.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Tagged Out!!!


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Hoopermat said:


> Tagged Out!!!


Awesome bull congratulations

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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