# 2012 Extended for deer



## flyfisher20 (Aug 5, 2011)

Does anyone know what is going on in terms of an extended archery unit next year for deer? Will there even be an extended season since tags will be for specified units?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Nope, but rest assured they will f*** that up like everything else.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I agree with you tex.


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## Dannyboy (Oct 27, 2010)

I thought i hear at the RAC that there would be a extended like it is now. Check with Bullsnot he would know.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

there better only be an extended season for those that draw a later tag and an early season for those that apply for an early tag. im sorry, i dont like this new plan that they are going with in 2012, but its not fair if some guys get to hunt 3 months on a certain tag in a certain unit when other guys only get to hunt 2 weeks on another unit. im not crying or complaining, but if we all are taking hits, i think we should all be treated equally.

maybe they are already planning on doing something like this, idk, just my opinion.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

*"...it's not fair!!!"*









Grown-ups take responsibility for their own choices.

The DWR won't be recommending any change to the extended hunts with the exception that you'll need a tag for the specific unit to hunt an extended area during the general season.

However, I'm told there are a couple of flakey proposals floating around...don't know if any have been put on the agenda yet. And who knows what kind of shenanigans might be going on in the back room.


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## creature22 (Jul 25, 2011)

I was told by someone working at the DWR's front desk that the extended season was up for review in november I think she said. And that it would be decided if they will do it or not.

I will be very disapointed if it goes away. Sad how much opportunity will be lost for archery as it is.


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

From what I hear leaking down is they are going to keep the extended. You have to draw a general archery tag for ANY Utah unit, after the general season archery hunt the extended areas become open to anyone who still holds an archery tag. Hopefully this is what they do adopt in. Also I heard a few inklings on new boundaries for a certain extended area, let's just say the daily commuters could possibly have hunters on both sides now....


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Since when is deer management based on what is "fair". Nothing pisses me off more than when decisions are made on what is "fair" instead of what is best for the management of the deer herd. All biological information shows that the extended has no negative impact on the deer herd, so why get rid of it?


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

jahan said:


> Since when is deer management based on what is "fair"......


Right now, cause it sure as He!! is not based on biology at this point in time.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > Since when is deer management based on what is "fair"......
> ...


I guess I should say when "should" it be based on what is "fair". You are correct in your statement.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

jahan said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > jahan said:
> ...


Impart I was just pulling your chain a little. Nothing we do is going to be seen as "fair" to all.

But I do believe the "balance" has been lost. It is getting to be less about the hunt and more about pushing people out of the sport.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

I hope the extended stays the way it is. When i got my certificate this year there was a warning on the DWR site that said " If the unethical and illeagle hunting behavior continues in the extended they will shut it down. This message shows when you have compleated the extended test.

If your going to hunt the extended know the boundries, and please treat everyone on the mountian like you would like to be treated. I think the people who really like the extended should also help police the less informed hunters on ethics and the laws. I belive if we work to keep it, we will do just that.

Now lord in heaven please send the snow and make the big bucks dumb with love!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

shaun larsen said:


> there better only be an extended season for those that draw a later tag and an early season for those that apply for an early tag. im sorry, i dont like this new plan that they are going with in 2012, but its not fair if some guys get to hunt 3 months on a certain tag in a certain unit when other guys only get to hunt 2 weeks on another unit. im not crying or complaining, but if we all are taking hits, i think we should all be treated equally.
> 
> maybe they are already planning on doing something like this, idk, just my opinion.


You've got to be kidding me Shaun! Its not fair? Why dont you put in for this area they you will be able to hunt it for 3 months and quit complaining.

I dont think you will have to worry about anyone being able to hunt more then you anyway. SFW will get rid of it next year. Every tag is going to a 10 day season across the board. There wont be an extended season and rifles and muzzys will be allowed up there next year for deer hunting. Mark my words!!!!!!

Call it my crystal ball but ive have been right on every other issue in Utah when it concerns what SFW has had in mind with there agenda. 
The front is going away just like AR301 did unless you die hard bow hunters stand up, show up at the wracs and quit back biting each other about its too crowded, its not fair, they need to make it LE, ect.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

The reason why there is an extended hunt is to keep the deer numbers down, not to grow bigger bucks. It would not hurt a thing to allow a limited number of muzzleloader tags in late Oct., like they did in 1999. If someone is caught shooting less than a 1/2 mile from a cabin, then hit them with a big fine and have them take an ethics class before they recieve a tag. I think the reason the 1999 hunt failed is because it was a big unlimited free for all.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: Re: 2012 Extended for deer*



ridgetop said:


> The reason why there is an extended hunt is to keep the deer numbers down.


I have to disagree with you on this point. You want to keep the deer numbers down a rifle or muzzy is a better more effective tool. The front was created just like ar301 was created. It was to allow for more archery opportunity. It was also created to ease the concerns of the trail hikers and home owners. It is a busy place with lots of safety concerns. Archery is a quiet way of taking care of business. 
The fact that archers are ineffective at shooting the herd out or controlling the deer numbers is the reason there are big bucks up there.

About the only thing that does control the deer numbers up there is the winters, the coyotes, and the late doe being shot.

Now that there is big bucks up there all the muzzy and rifle guys want in on the action.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: Re: 2012 Extended for deer*



swbuckmaster said:


> ridgetop said:
> 
> 
> > The reason why there is an extended hunt is to keep the deer numbers down.
> ...


The front hunt was created to ease the complaints to the DWR from the trail hikers and home owners. Period......
The reason the front is good is because of the limited number of archers that take part and it is a tough area to hunt. Not because of 15-20% difference in effectivenessof the weapon.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Apparently you haven't been hunting the front. To say it has limited hunters would be an out right lie. That area is slammed with hunters for 4 months! You want to see a zoo of hunters go in november anywhere. The parking lots are full there are hunters on every ridge. No I've hunted this area for over ten years and the reason the front has big deer is because archers are ineffective at killing those bucks and more live to mature! Fact!!!! To say otherwise is a down right lie!!!! The only way you can have high quality and allow rifles is with limited axcess! Fact that is proven on every le unit in this state except the front! Fact!
It is also a fact that I could have killed every buck I have hunted with a rifle on the front but with a bow in 10+ years of hunting I've only killed one buck I was after with a bow.
Rifles are very effective at shooting the cream or best animals out of a unit archers are not! Fact!


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> Apparently you haven't been hunting the front. To say it has limited hunters would be an out right lie. That area is slammed with hunters for 4 months! You want to see a zoo of hunters go in november anywhere. The parking lots are full there are hunters on every ridge. No I've hunted this area for over ten years and the reason the front has big deer is because archers are ineffective at killing those bucks and more live to mature! Fact!!!! To say otherwise is a down right lie!!!! The only way you can have high quality and allow rifles is with limited axcess! Fact that is proven on every le unit in this state except the front! Fact!
> It is also a fact that I could have killed every buck I have hunted with a rifle on the front but with a bow in 10+ years of hunting I've only killed one buck I was after with a bow.
> Rifles are very effective at shooting the cream or best animals out of a unit archers are not! Fact!


You want facts?

Page 26 of the 2009 annual Big game report, 1364 archery hunters hunted the front from south weber to the point of the mountain. They averaged 5.6 days. Assuming 120 huntable days for the 4 months, does that not equate to roughly 21 hunters a day on the mountain?

We have High Schools that have more students then hunted the wasatch for 4 months........

The Wasatch is good because a limited number of hunters hunt it and it is very rugged. Period...


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

1300+ hunted it and most of them were concentrated south of i-80. Those same guys hunted an average of 5 days. That is a load of pressure in an area the same size as the henry mountains!!! The henry mtns only allows what 30 hunters. Do you see a difference? One has 35 bucks to 100 does and one has 50/100. 
There is way more opportunity in an archery only area then when rifles are allowed! Fact! You can spin it however you want! I hunt both sides rifle/non rifle area and there is a big difference in quality and opportunity! Just look at the rest of the state. 15000 archers divide by 30 regions is only 500 archers hunting any one region. So 1300+ is alot of hunters that have a 4 month hunt. Not a 3 day hunt!
Spin it how ever you want! I don't want rifles allowed back in those areas. I know what will happen. It will look like the rest of the state. Low buck numbers, low quality, low opportunity. No thanks!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Huntoholic

You going to try and convince me 1300+ rifle hunters hunting that area for four months and during the rut wouldn't hurt the buck to do ratio or shoot the quality out because its too rugged. That's the whole basis of your stance!


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> 1300+ hunted it and most of them were concentrated south of i-80. Those same guys hunted an average of 5 days. That is a load of pressure in an area the same size as the henry mountains!!! The henry mtns only allows what 30 hunters. Do you see a difference? One has 35 bucks to 100 does and one has 50/100.
> There is way more opportunity in an archery only area then when rifles are allowed! Fact! You can spin it however you want! I hunt both sides rifle/non rifle area and there is a big difference in quality and opportunity! Just look at the rest of the state. 15000 archers divide by 30 regions is only 500 archers hunting any one region. So 1300+ is alot of hunters.
> Spin it how ever you want!


21 hunters a day is squat, even just limiting it to south of I-80. There's more pressure from trail hikers then hunters. 
And don't get me wrong, I think the Wasatch is being managed the way it should be. Using primitive weapons is the best option, because of conflict. But your reasoning for quality and opportunity is inpart wrong.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> Huntoholic
> 
> You going to try and convince me 1300+ rifle hunters hunting that area for four months and during the rut wouldn't hurt the buck to do ratio or shoot the quality out because its too rugged. That's the whole basis of your stance!


Rifle hunters harvest on average 15 - 20% more than archers (ball park) when comparing apples to apples. I would expect a difference ratio, but quality nope. Given that all things where equal, i.e. nobody else was hunting deer the rest of the year. And ignoring the ruggedness of the Wasatch as a key factor in the quality equation is putting your head in the sand.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Huntoholic
> ...


I am in no way saying the front isn't rugged. It sure doesn't have any wheeler trails all over it.

I have put in 90+ days hunting the front in the last 3 years with an elk tag and a deer tag in hand and have yet to hang my tag on a buck or a bull in that time. I could have killed a buck with a rifle every time I have hit the trail in the last 3 years rugged or not. A rifle nullifies the terrain up there and to think other wise is also "putting your head in the sand!"


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> I have put in 90+ days hunting the front in the last 3 years with an elk tag and a deer tag in hand and have yet to hang my tag on a buck or a bull in that time.


didnt you kill a buck up there in 2008? and one in 2007?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Yes I did. I have taken 6 deer in the 11 or so years hunting it.
This makes me a 50% hunter.
Im honestly in now way the average hunter. Im also not trying to toot my own horn either. I am blessed to be able to put in over 30 days a year on the front. Most guy I know cant get away with it. This also doesnt mean im better then any other hunter either. Just able to spend more time. I don't even want to say how many days I scout, video, and shed hunt it. If I was only putting in 5 days a year on the front it could take me multiple years to tag. Its that hard with a bow. But I could take a buck on every hike if I had a rifle.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> ....... A rifle nullifies the terrain up there and to think other wise is also "putting your head in the sand!"


Nope, just a 15-20% edge.

You want another example?

Timpanogos.. Similar terrain and from the 2009 report appears to have all weapons using the area.
Rifle 21%
Muzzy 9.9%
Archery 8.5%

Timpanogos is a good solid quality unit and just like the wasatch, (but I would rate the wasatch harder), falls within the average spread of success. Yes rifles have an advantage, but it is not the huge crutch you make it out to be. Sorry, but when hunter numbers are capped your doom and gloom goes out the window. Now if the rifle numbers where not capped, I believe that there would be a big drop in quaility, because there is a whole lot more rifle hunters on the front that would take advantage.
Now I'll say it again, the wasatch is being managed they way it should be. Because of the High population conflict, archery is the best tool for all hunters for this area. But the quality of this hunt is not solely because it is archery.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Huntoholic said:


> But the quality of this hunt is not solely because it is archery.


that is a true statement. the easier places to hunt get hammered. doesnt matter what kind of weapon used, the success rates are higher in areas that arent as rugged that hold good numbers of deer. there are some **** holes all through out utah that have awesome deer in them year after year. even with great years for hunters (snow years) and bad years for deer, there always is quite a few that will make it through to the next year. why is that? because the areas are remote and nasty. i have places i hunt on 3 seperate mountain ranges that are steep and rugged. even with a rifle it is hard to kill a monster, but they are there and theres plenty of them. why is it hard to kill them? because they live in a **** hole.

the wasatch is a rough place to hunt. but if they allowed a few guys up there with guns every year, it wouldnt be the end of the world. it wouldnt be the murder fest some think it would be, because its no cake walk to get to the deer.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Ya your right timps a world class unit. Rifle hunters havent shot the quality out of it. Should I burn my 11 or 12 deer points on it?


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> Ya your right timps a world class unit. Rifle hunters havent shot the quality out of it. Should I burn my 11 or 12 deer points on it?


Naw, ya better save them, cause you're going to need them if you want to hunt with any weapon in Utah........


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## shenglu (Nov 1, 2011)

I do not like this new plan, they intend to in 2012, but its not fair that some players to be pursued for three months, some in a unit label, hunt other players to get another unit only 2 weeks.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Its not fair?
Bs if you want to hunt it put in for it and quit whining about it. Then when you draw it you can pick up your bow and hunt for three months. 
I get so sick of people trying to screw up the best unit in this state for opportunity and quality.
Sorry but this is how I feel about it.


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> Its not fair?
> Bs if you want to hunt it put in for it and quit whining about it. Then when you draw it you can pick up your bow and hunt for three months.
> I get so sick of people trying to screw up the best unit in this state for opportunity and quality.
> Sorry but this is how I feel about it.


AMEN!!! I'm so tired of the "I dont want to do it, so nobody should be able to do it" whiner attitude.


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