# Daughter Wants an Elk Tag.....



## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

My 13 year old daughter wants an elk tag this year. She is no where near being able to draw 40 lbs so a bow is out. I want to get her a good rifle that fits her. She can handle the recoil of the 30-30 but the stock is just a touch too long for her to be comfortable.

What rifle can you recommend for a 13 year old girl that is about 4'10" and weighs in at about 85 lbs and could take elk hunting?  I'm thinking I need something in the .270ish area or even a 7mm-08 but has either a youth stock or is adjustable? I've seen shotguns with the removeable shims but nothing for elk'en rifles.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

That 7mm-08 with a youth stock would be my choice. I work with a guy whos daughter in law is about 5' and all of about 100 lbs. She uses that gun and handles it quite nicely.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

Does Remington still make the Model Seven Youth? Something like that in .280 or 7mm-08 would be ideal for a youth who wants to hunt elk. Even just a .308 would probably be okay for her using reduced recoil loads. Hornady, Federal and Remington all have reduced recoil offerings for .308 if you are not a reloader. Then when she grows up you can change out the stock and use full power loads.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

+1 for .308 It is the parent case of the .243 so I would imagine recoil to be pretty similar with the exception of the round being .30 cal


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

Nambaster said:


> +1 for .308 It is the parent case of the .243 so I would imagine recoil to be pretty similar with the exception of the round being .30 cal


Recoil is partially determined by bullet weight because the amount of force necessary to accelerate an inanimate object (like a bullet) is inversely proportional to the mass of that object, and also because for every force exerted on an object there is an equal amount of force exerted in the opposite direction (like a shooters shoulder). So even though the .243 and 7mm-08 have the same basic case design and powder capacity as the .308, they are typically using smaller bullets in the 85-125 grain range, versus the 150-180 grain range of the .308, so you get less recoil from those smaller caliber cartridges. Of course there is a wide range of weights and styles for .308 bullets if you reload.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

What's your budget Bullsnot?


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Bax - I'm willing to pay an arm or a leg but not both!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Hmmmmmm...... That might be tricky. Maybe we'll just have to find a rifle that costs a pinky finger, so that you aren't completely maimed from the experience.

Have you looked at the Ruger M77s in the compact models? They would be a nice choice for someone with a smaller frame.

http://ruger.com/mobile/products/37140.html


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=233364661
.308 youth model.

or 7mm-08 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=233498347


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

If you're looking for a good "starter" rifle, I'd look at this little guy right here. It's not available at your chain stores, just dealers ie. Gunnies, Smith & Edwards etc.

I've heard nothing but good about the X7's. I'm not a fan of the 7-08 but it seems to tickle the fancy of many people.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/CenterfireBoltAction/x7y.asp


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

First off if she can handle the recoil of a 30-30...assuming you mean some sort of carbine...she can actually handle quite a bit of recoil cause those old 30-30's are really not nice. She should be able to handle most common 30 caliber....308, 30-06 and most of the little bit smaller...7mm-08, etc with NO problem. Keep in mind as 73mm was trying to say...a heavy rifle will recoil a LOT less than a light weight rifle...so DO NOT buy a rifle cause it is nice and light to carry. There are some great "youth" rifles out there that should fit just fine and keep in mind you are going after elk, so get a caliber that will kill and elk. No little pop gun .223 or even .243 or 6mm's. I understand there are some great factory loads out there that have a little reduced velocity...that means less recoil also...so, when teamed with a nice, not to light, good fitting rifle, should be just the ticket for your daughter.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I bet you could get some of those Managed Recoil loads from Remington to let her shoot with at the range, and then give her some hard hitting stuff for the hunt. Odds are the adrenaline will be running so high that she wont notice that the gun kicked harder


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Here's my opinion. It's more than you asked for but I hope it helps.
I believe gun fit has a giant effect on perceived recoil. If she can control the gun the recoil will not hurt or be scary. It needs a straight stock that is short and slim enough that she can get a real grip on it. A good recoil pad helps tremendously. It has to be light enough that she can get into a decent stance. People in the bowed over backwards about to fall down stance are afraid, they are not in control of the situation and know it. A scope with four or five inches of eye relief is best. Once a gun has given you a magnum eyebrow you never forget. The barrel should be long enough to reduce muzzle blast. Any shorter than twenty inches and they start getting loud. Noise is a big part of perceived recoil. Good hearing protection is vital and in my experience smaller people have a hard time with muffs. 
I would go with a 308 Win. and be careful with the practice sessions. If you reload all the manuals have reduced loads and most of the starting loads are quite mild. If not keep sessions short and there is still some less expensive FMJ 147gr stuff around. When hunt time rolls around Dad sights it in with the elk load.
As far as the rifle goes I'll throw out an option not yet mentioned. Buy a nice used Featherweight, Model 7, 77 Compact or similar and have the stock shortened and a nice fat Kick-Eez or Decelerator put on it. You can't shorten a plastic stock.

Here is a link to a comment and a chart by Chuck Hawks. It has some value.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Great stuff. You guys have come through as always. Much appriciated. I'll let you know what I decide on and will probably ask some advice on some handloads.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Even though I'm late on the draw here, I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I started a girl similar in size to yours with a 308 and I believe that it is the best choice by far especially if elk are involved. I bought a used Reminton 788 and had the barrel cut off at 18.5 inches as well as the stock shortened to fit my little lady. All together with the gun and smithing I am 450.00 into the setup and it has paid dividends in how my daughter has developed as a shooter. Remington reduced recoil loads are perfect for practice in this caliber and don't kick very hard. I could go on and on about the advantages of the 308 over smaller calibers for taking game, but I think we all understand that well. Don't be afraid to get an older used gun, especially if you plan to modify the stock to fit a little one as they will only use it for a few years before they are tugging on your sleeve for something bigger. I have loaned my "kiddie rifle" out to at least 3 kids now and they have used it on their first hunts. My oldest daughter has graduated to a full sized rifle and it will probably get some use by my younger one before waiting for the grandkids.------SS


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

My Daughter is in the EXACT same position. Going to be 13 this season. She's been busting her butt trying to work up to 50# on her bow (44 and counting right now). The reason for the archery tag, is that while she loves shooting her .243, the 7mm-08 we got her has a bit more punch, and she is pretty leery of it. The crazy thing is that the 7mm-08 and .243 are both based off of the .308 cartridge arent they? Her .243 and the 08 are both the same model savage rifle, so the weight of the gun, stock configuration, and recoil pads are identical. The only difference as far as I can tell are the size and weight of the bullet. And the kick isn't anywhere near what my 30-06 puts out, but I'll admit, you can really tell the difference between a 100 grain .243 bullet and a 165 grain 7mm-08 bullet.

If you're on the fence about buying one, or want to see how she does with it, you're more than welcome to borrow Katie's for a day and see if she's ok with the recoil.

I'm going to agree with Cooky up there about the perceived recoil when it comes to the sound of it. Katie was a little sketchy to shoot her .243 until we got her to where she couldn't hear the blast as much. The other thing she hated and that made her nervous to shoot a rifle was trigger creep. The anticipation of the gun going off, and feeling the trigger slowly moving back but not firing yet made her super nervous. When we got her that savage with the accutriger, we set the trigger to a low, very crisp 2.5 pound break, and it's been a lot easier for her to shoot. She doesn't have to mash the trigger to know when it'll go off, and she can use good form and not have to put a lot of pull on it, but knows exactly when the gun is going to discharge.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Here is what I bought my then 10 now 11 yr old daughter and she loves it. Ive worked up some great low recoil accurate loads if you need any info let me know.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30098&hilit=+mossberg


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Just wanted to post an update on this. I ended up going with a Savage Youth 11xp in a 7mm-08 with the accutrigger. I put a Nikon 3-9x40 with the BDC on it. I purchased the Remington reduced recoil ammo for her to go out and shoot with. She shoots the rifle very well. 

Due to scheduling issues she couldn't do the elk hunt this year but on Saturday she'll be packing this little rifle in search of her first big game animal. Her max range is 200 yds but we should be able to make that happen for her. (Fingers crossed)


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Nice choice bull...

Good luck to your daughter!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Very nice! I'm taking my 14 year old daughter out this weekend for deer. She didn't get a chance at a buck with her muzzleloader this year, so it's rifle time now. I wanted her to shoot my 30.06 but it is too long for her, so I got the .308 out and it is a bit long and heavy for her, then we tried the .22-250 and it was a bit too long also. I made a trip over to get my Dad's and picked up his 1951 Winchester 94 30-30 tonight and it fits her nicely. She prefers open sights over scopes anyways so she should be good to go. I will put a limb saver pad on it for her.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Good luck to your daughter fowl with the ole 30-30!

My daughter loved shooting my 30-30 but she just couldn't shoot the open sites all that well. She likes the scope and vowed never to put a scope on my 30-30 so lucky for her she got a new rifle out of the deal.


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