# 7mm confusion



## Deuce (Oct 18, 2007)

So... I'm looking at the new Remington 7mm 700. I've decided that's what I want, but I don't know the difference between the -08, mag, or ultra mag. A lot of guys have said before that the -08 was good for their wives... but it's for me. Which one is your prefered??


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

You missed a couple. Let's look at them all, and add to the confusion.
7mm-08---based on the 308 Winchester case, burns 40-50 grains of powder to push a 140 grain bullet at about 2800 feet per second.
7x57 Mauser---similar in performance to the 7-08. Introduced in 1892. Started this whole mess.
284 Winchester---designed to get 270 Winchester performance out of a short case. 45-55 grains of powder, 2900 fps with a 140 grain bullet.
280 Remington---Based on the 30-06 case, 50-60 grains of powder, 3000 fps with the 140 grain bullet.
7mm Remington Short Ultra Mag---Designed to get magnum performance from a short action rifle. 60-65 grains of powder, 3150 fps/140.
7mm Remington Magnum---Introduced the Remington 700 rifle. 60-70 grains of powder, 3200 fps/140.
7mm Winchester Short Magnum---Winchester's short action magnum. 60-75 grains of powder, 3300 fps/140.
7mm Weatherby---The original factory 7 mag. 60-77 grains of powder, 3400 fps/140.
7mm Dakota---Beltless magnum based on the 404 Jeffery case 2.5 inches long. 70-80 grains of powder, 3400 fps/140.
7mm Shooting Times Westerner---Belted magnum based on the full length H&H case. 70-83 grains of powder, 3400 fps/140.
7mm Remington Ultra Mag---Beltless magnum based on the 404 Jeffery case 2.85 inches long. 84-96 grains of powder, 3500 fps/140. 
Recoil and expense will increase with the size of the case. Barrel life will be shorter as well. A lot will depend on your style of hunting, and what you plan to hunt as well. Ammunition availability could also become an issue. The 7mm Remington magnum is the most popular, so ammo is more readily available. Charlie Sisk, one of the most highly rated custom gun makers in the country, has made the comment that out to 300 yards the 308 Winchester performs just as well as the large 30 caliber magnums. The same can be applied to the 7mm bore as well.


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## Deuce (Oct 18, 2007)

As always Loke, you are the man. Where you come up with all that I'll never know. Thanks. Basically I'm already sold on the Remington 700, so with that said; The Ultra mag velocity is pretty close to the rem mag... ish. But isn't as hot and won't burn up my barrel as fast. So now my question is... 2800 fps vs. 3200 fps sounds substantial, is it? Less recoil and easy to find ammo with the -08.... or faster and presumably flatter travel with more recoil and expense with a rem mag?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

With a 200 yard zero, at 3200 fps a Hornady 139 grain BTSP should drop 5.7 inches at 300 yards, and 16.7 inches at 400. At 2800 fps it should drop 7.8 and 22.7 inches respectively. Is 2 inches at 300 yards worth the additional 30 to 40 grains of powder, recoil, and muzzle blast? That is up to you to decide.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

To further add to the confusion....lets not forget about the 7mm Remington Express otherwise sometimes called by the name of .280 Remington.................the man might decide to look at the used gun market and come across one of those oldies somehow. :wink: 

If I was getting a new rilfe and didn't reload personally I'd get the 7mm Rem Mag over the others with the 7mm-08 coming in a close second place.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

There are also a few of them out there that were marked "7mm-06". However, it (the 280 Remington/7mm Express) is not interchangeable with some of the wildcats that are called the 7mm-06.
Is anybody confused yet?


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## Deuce (Oct 18, 2007)

Well, I think I'm still confused, but maybe not as confused as I once was. I still don't know what I'll get... I'll probably surprise myself. Either way, thanks


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## James (Oct 7, 2007)

Caution!

Got a 7mm? Be sure to get the right ammo for it. There are so many 7mms out there that every now and then someone blows one up by putting the wrong ammo in it.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Don't be confussed...just don't buy a 7mm at all. Sounds like it is your first gun and maybe your only so buy a good .30 cal...'06, .308. 300mag and be done with it. Ammo's cheap and plentiful, guns are cheap and plentiful, and you simply can not beat success and these old boys are successful!


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I was on the Midway Shooting Supply website looking at some sale items. Man that WSM brass is pricey. On sale for over $50.00 a hundred. I think I would just stay with a standard caliber that has been around for awhile.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> Don't be confussed...just don't buy a 7mm at all. Sounds like it is your first gun and maybe your only so buy a good .30 cal...'06, .308. 300mag and be done with it. Ammo's cheap and plentiful, guns are cheap and plentiful, and you simply can not beat success and these old boys are successful!


Which 30 caliber do you recommend? 30 Carbine, 30/30 Winchester, 30/40 Krag, 7.5x55 Swiss, 300 Savage, 7.62x54R, 307 Winchester, 308 Marlin Express, 30 T/C, 308 Winchester, 30-06, 300 H&H, 308 Norma Magnum, 300 Ruger Compact Magnum, 300 Remington Short Action Ultra Mag, 300 Winchester Short Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum, 300 Weatherby Magnum, 300 Remington Ultra Mag, or 30-378 Weatherby? 
and you thought there were a lot of 7mm calibers.
Just get a 270. There are only 4 to choose from.


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## Duurty1 (Sep 10, 2007)

i'm with loke on this one


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Gee Loke, let me get out my P.O. Ackley book and see which ones you missed. I clearly stated .308, (and if you insist .308 Win), and I stated '06..(gee, sorry I forget the .30 in front of the '06, didn't mean to confuse anybody, hardly anybody calls the 30-06 just plain old '06) and the .300mag (OK, there are quite a few .300 mag's, but here again, 99 out of 100 people will think of the .300 Win Mag when .300 mag is mentioned).
I am not trying to be argumentative here, it just sounded to me as if the guy wanted a little advise in narrowing down a good choice in an all around rifle...are you going to say that the ones I recommended or NOT good solid choices? If so, I would sure love to hear your augments.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not saying they were not good choices at all. In fact I have a 300 Winchester Magnum sitting in my safe. The point I was trying to make was that even after one chooses a caliber, cartridge choice can still be confusing. And you need to pay attention to what you get, and the ammunition you shoot. There are many stories of inattentive people firing 7mm Express (or Mauser, 7-08 etc) ammo in their 7mm Mags because they all say 7mm. Or store clerks selling 300 Winchesters to the guy with the Savage 99. 
There are plenty of great choices in the 7mm calibers. Deuce had narrowed his choices to that caliber, I just threw out a few cartridges for him to pick from. You suggested the 30 caliber to lessen the confusion of which cartridge to choose. I was just pointing out that there are even more choices with the 30 that even the 7mm caliber.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Loke said:


> ...And you need to pay attention to what you get, and the ammunition you shoot.


Yup, yup and double yup...people need to know *exactly what ammo they are stuffing in their gun.*
Sometimes not only can the caliber be confusing but the actual appearance can lead to mistakes. I would dare say over the years there has been more .270win fired in a .30-06 than any other mistake out there and they are not the same caliber.
The proliferation of new cartridges in all calibers has led to much confusion and mistakes can only be eliminated by the very careful inspection of the ammo you use before you put it in your gun.


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