# Hog hunting banned in Utah - law H.B. 505



## massmanute

Do any of you have any thoughts on the recently passed Utah law (HB 505) that effectively bans hog hunting in Utah?

This law is going to put at least two hog hunting operations out of business.


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## Huge29

First of all, welcome to the forum! 
I am not familiar with this and my first thought is that if it does put the Castle Dale and Corinne operations out of business that is total BS. If that is the result, I will guess that the intent is to avoid them establishing a wild herd and I can see where that may have some merit. But those operations are really not much different than any other hog farming operation. They still have a fence and are a domestic breed...how they are dispatched is not that much different...I will have to do some reading on it to form a complete opinion.


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## Huge29

I found it here http://le.utah.gov/~2012/bills/hbillenr/hb0505.pdf
Sure enough starting on line 210:


> A person may not release swine on public or private property for hunting purposes.


Just seems like more of the nanny state theory has landed here making laws to find problems that don't exist. I would be interested in knowing more about the reasoning of this, maybe there is a problem of which I am just not aware.


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## Last Man Standing

Huge29 said:


> Just seems like more of the nanny state theory has landed here making laws to find problems that don't exist. I would be interested in knowing more about the reasoning of this, maybe there is a problem of which I am just not aware.


I agree, this seems like BS. I don't see those operations creating a feral herd very easily at all.


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## stimmie78

I would guess that this started because of this story http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=17866097

And no one caught it in time to raise a fuss and stop the law.


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## massmanute

Maybe we could prevail upon the legislature to repeal the hog hunting part of the law, or at least change it to something a bit more rational.


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## Huge29

stimmie78 said:


> I would guess that this started because of this story http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=17866097
> 
> And no one caught it in time to raise a fuss and stop the law.


That was the only thing that I could think of as a reason for this. Had such an incident not been on an island certainly may have been a very tragic incident with adverse effects felt for years to come. Seems like a bit rash to me, but I can see where they felt the need to be proactive.


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## InvaderZim

Its a great idea. I don't think you folks realize the severity of establishing wild hogs in Utah. Like the quagga, we need to try and keep them out at all costs (although I do think the quagga thing was a bit overly melodramatic)


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## ram2h2o

You really don't want feral or wild hogs in Utah. They will probably get here on their own in the coming years. They will destroy farmers fields, ruin water ways with their wallows and root up the forests. They will eat just about anything, including young fawns,calves and lambs. They destroy ground nesting birds eggs. They carry swine brucellosis and pseudo rabies. Swine Brucellosis will make you sick like a bad case of the flu. Pseudorabies won't hurt you but if your dog gets it, it will die. Once you have them, you can try to control them, but you will not get rid of them. In 1975 on my property in Wilkinson county, MS ,we did not have hogs. Now we have them everywhere. We trap them, shoot them when deer hunting and hunt them with dogs and we still have hogs.The sows can have 3 litters a year. They have no natural predators.
Last year we actually shot so many hogs that we had our freezers full, gave meat away until we just shot them and left them in the woods. We really don't want to introduce feral or wild hogs into Utah.


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## GaryFish

Funny to me. Groups fought and fought to allow confined shooting operations for elk and deer a few years back. And we also have confined shooting operations for bison as well. Heck, the state manages the biggest of them on Antelope Island. Seems to me the same concerns for spread of disease were raised then and it wasn't a problem. And with elk and bison, escapees can spread to wild herds and spread disease in a big way - such as CWD. But hey, the legislature was all about making those things happen. But they ban hot shooting. 

Not that I really care much for shooting a domestic pig, deer, elk, bison or anything else in the name of hunting. Its not my deal. I can see how hogs can be vastly destructive to habitats. Wild, feral hogs being what they are - highly reproductive and prolific, I still don't see them spreading like they do in the Southern United States. The habitats are worlds apart and really not as conducive to hog growth. But that said, the very limited habitats we have that WOULD support hogs - river corridors - are all that more important to protect. 

But back to my original thought - if we have confined "hunting" methods of shooting domestic deer, elk and bison, then really don't we have to provide for hogs as well?


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## ram2h2o

We have the high fenced so called hunting preserves in MS also. They have a varitey of animals, Russian and European wild boars, Red stags, Fallow Deer, Elk, Buffalo,other exotic animals in addtion to native whitetails. They said they were safe and they could not escape... Funny we see and shoot fallow deer now and have killed some Russian boars. Several Elk have been killed in the area. It's not if the fence will fail, its when it fails.


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## GaryFish

You hit exactly on my point. I am not a fan of any kind of confined shooting operation. Because "confined" is a temporary term. Always. Its proven problematic in every state that has confined deer shooting operations, and is responsible for the spread of CWD. Elk/stag crosses have escaped into wild herds, leaving impacts that are far more damaging than even the big bad wolffies. For some reason, Utah law makers give into the lobbying of screw wild wildlife if a guy can make a buck (pun intended) off a confined shoot. But when the State runs the biggest confined shooting operation, they aren't in a position to do anything about it. And that sucks. Perhaps banning hog shoots will lead to a ban on other confined shoots. who knows.


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## InvaderZim

The difference Gary is risk. Outbreaks of disease could be potentially VERY harmful to our wild critters. But besides disease though, deer, elk, and bison are native to our area and the release of said critter (if disease free) would have little effect on our wild systems.

But if the hogs get out...really, really, really not good.

However I do think the legislature enacting laws such as this is kind of silly, and like you, I find it ridiculous or even ironic that such a conservative government, one that tells us they’re hell-bent on less restrictions, keep yanking us around with this garbage they call a job.

But hogs are bad.


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## GaryFish

I agree with you on the severity of hogs running wild Zimmer. I'm not a fan of the hog. Unless it is bacon. Then I like it. but that isn't wild hogs running around ruining what few riparian zones we have in our desert state. 

I get your point on confined hunting of native animals. Good enough argument. But, as you point, that is only disease free critters. And in confined siti-ations, that is tough go come by. And what worries more are the stag-elk hybrids, bred for their skills in magic, and huger antlers. A cow elk bred by a hybrid bull will sluff the calf and fail to bare calfs in the future. That is a problem.


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## massmanute

There are good reasons to avoid the establishment of uncontrolled feral hog populations. However, it seems to me that the risks can be mitigated. I am not an expert, but consider the following risks and possible solutions.

Risk: Pseudorabies and swine brucellosis.
Possible solution: The solution here would seem to be the same solution used by commercial hog operations, namely to only stock hogs procured from disease free herds. If necessary this requirement could be written into law.

Risk: Hogs are destructive of the habitat.
Possible solution: The solution here would seem to be the same solution as used by commercial free-range swine operations. Good fences are part of this, plus liability provisions already written into the laws governing swine husbandry. Perhaps this could be augmented with contingency rules related to removal of animals that escape the hunting preserve. Perhaps the hogs could also be tagged or branded when stocked, so liability can be established if a hog is taken outside the hunting preserve.

Risk: Hogs reproduce at alarming rates.
Possible solution(s): Apply heavy hunting pressure. Stock only neutered hogs.

There are probably a lot of other possible solutions as well.


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## Flyfishn247

Here's a possible solution, castrate all males upon birth and make any commercial operation intent on breeding their stock purchase semen from an outside source and artificially inseminate. Cannot have an enduring feral herd if they can't make babies.


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## Afishnado

Huge29 said:


> I am not familiar with this and my first thought is that if it does put the Castle Dale and Corinne operations out of business that is total BS.


I have an enormous problem with wild/feral hogs in Utah. Aside from the disease and the destruction of property concerns, they are extremely dangerous. We have land that's adjacent to the Corrine hog/sheep/waterfowl operation. One day while we were out duck hunting, my lab got into a tussle with one of the hogs that had wondered onto our property. My lab came out of the fight with about 30 stitches. I killed the hog, and have killed a couple others on our property since that incident (2010).

A person can get torn up by them just as easy, and a patch of thule's make a nice hiding place for the hog.


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## cklspencer

> I have an enormous problem with wild/feral hogs in Utah. Aside from the disease and the destruction of property concerns, they are extremely dangerous. We have land that's adjacent to the Corrine hog/sheep/waterfowl operation. One day while we were out duck hunting, my lab got into a tussle with one of the hogs that had wondered onto our property. My lab came out of the fight with about 30 stitches. I killed the hog, and have killed a couple others on our property since that incident (2010).
> 
> A person can get torn up by them just as easy, and a patch of thule's make a nice hiding place for the hog.


My understanding is they only turn out the hogs that are on order for that day and everyone of them is killed before the end of the day.......I've hunted on corine twice and castle once (I like pig). The only pigs we saw were the ones we killed no others. We even wondered around looking for more to call them out on their BS that they just run wild out there. My buddy killed a Goat over the pig once and we over heard them tell the butcher they would be back with the other pig my buddy didn't kill. So I'm going to call your BS on that one unless you have pics to prove it. Besides, in corrin they use the river as a boarder and there are fences on the north and east. That would mean your on the west of the property?


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## jahan

cklspencer said:


> I have an enormous problem with wild/feral hogs in Utah. Aside from the disease and the destruction of property concerns, they are extremely dangerous. We have land that's adjacent to the Corrine hog/sheep/waterfowl operation. One day while we were out duck hunting, my lab got into a tussle with one of the hogs that had wondered onto our property. My lab came out of the fight with about 30 stitches. I killed the hog, and have killed a couple others on our property since that incident (2010).
> 
> A person can get torn up by them just as easy, and a patch of thule's make a nice hiding place for the hog.
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is they only turn out the hogs that are on order for that day and everyone of them is killed before the end of the day.......I've hunted on corine twice and castle once (I like pig). The only pigs we saw were the ones we killed no others. We even wondered around looking for more to call them out on their BS that they just run wild out there. My buddy killed a Goat over the pig once and we over heard them tell the butcher they would be back with the other pig my buddy didn't kill. So I'm going to call your BS on that one unless you have pics to prove it. Besides, in corrin they use the river as a boarder and there are fences on the north and east. That would mean your on the west of the property?
Click to expand...

I don't know about this operation, but IMO it would be hard to get 100% retrieval rate on these hogs, not saying impossible, but very difficult.


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## cklspencer

THey pick the pigs up from an auction the same week you hunt them. They are farm raised pigs that have no clue. THey almost walk right up to you.


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## InvaderZim

Thats not the experience I've heard about. And a river as a barrier?....exactly why we need the law!


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## Afishnado

We are on the opposite side of the river from the pig club. The problem is that in the winter the river freezes and the animals come and go as they please. We have several goats on our property as we speak that got there by that route. 

And I don't need prove anything by way of pics, certainly not to anyone on here. There were plenty of us there to witness it and a nice vet bill to boot.


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## SFWG

I agree with this bill. We do not need pigs running around loose, so a couple people can make a few bucks.


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## massmanute

SFWG

As for pigs running loose, sure, go ahead and ban them, but the law is not just talking about "pigs running loose." It also applies to pigs within a compound, and that is where the law goes wrong.


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## swbuckmaster

Afisnado

im calling ya out. Those pigs are let out minutes before the hunters arrive. Ive been on the property seen pigs shot. Sure the goats are there so maybe your dog was tore up by a goat lol. The pigs they release out there are also stupid, slow, fat, and hardly wild.
There so stupid you could kill them with a knife.


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## Afishnado

I've seen the people that hunt the hogs there. I guarantee more than a few have gotten away without a scratch....


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## massmanute

The real issue is whether it is possible to safely manage a hog hunting operation that would satisfy the concerns about feral hogs.

I submit that a hog hunting operation is not fundamentally different from an agricultural free range hog operation. If such operations are allowed in Utah (and the fact is, they are allowed) then a hog hunting operation should provide no higher risk, provided it is managed appropriately. A reasonable set of regulations should take care of this.

Also, hogs have been raised in Utah for more than a century and a half, and I am pretty sure there have been escapees during that time. Given that reality, If there were a great risk of establishing uncontrolled feral hog populations in Utah then it would have probably already happened.


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## Afishnado

massmanute,
I suppose that you are probably right. Years ago my uncle had a pig ranch out in Hansel Valley and they got loose all the time. I wonder why the feral hogs have been so prolific in some of the other states.


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## proutdoors

massmanute said:


> The real issue is whether it is possible to safely manage a hog hunting operation that would satisfy the concerns about feral hogs.
> 
> I submit that a hog hunting operation is not fundamentally different from an agricultural free range hog operation. If such operations are allowed in Utah (and the fact is, they are allowed) then a hog hunting operation should provide no higher risk, provided it is managed appropriately. A reasonable set of regulations should take care of this.
> 
> Also, hogs have been raised in Utah for more than a century and a half, and I am pretty sure there have been escapees during that time. Given that reality, If there were a great risk of establishing uncontrolled feral hog populations in Utah then it would have probably already happened.


I raise pigs, LOTS of pigs. All I contain them with is ONE strand of electric wire, so does this new law mean down the road I will have to change how I raise pigs? IMHO, this is a knee-jerk reaction that WILL have unintended consequences. Whether someone has hogs on a 'large' piece of ground for hunting or other reasons is NONE of the State's business. How do we regulate such without handing the entire farming industry over to the State? Is someone going to come and inspect my hog operation and verify my hogs are raised strictly for slaughter? What about my pasture raised cattle, is this the next targeted livestock to be regulated? I have some Watusi cattle that my cousin brought in as a 'hobby' several years ago, I have one bull that has MASSIVE horns and he is VERY mean, I can't send him to the auction, so I have been debating have someone come 'hunt' him.....maybe a brave bow hunter would enjoy the thrill. Did I mention he is VERY mean? Anyhow, I have to keep him isolated from the other cattle, and I have to keep him in a metal corral, as electric wire and barb wire are NOT deterrents for this beast. Don't tell the legislature on me........ :roll:


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## mack1950

We have used the corrine operation for alot of years to start the new hunters in the group hunting this year my 6 year old grandson had his turn before that the ladies who were starting bowhunting had there turn its been alot of fun. i concure that a wild ferral hog population is not a good thing to have but in the instance its wrong to tell someone who has alot of property that he cannot allow folks to harvest animal that he bought at auction and are harvested before they can spread out almost all the animals we have harvested were either casterad boars are sows not much of a chanch to breed that way is there. i think there is plenty of wiggle room if allowed to keep the wild ferrals out and still let there be controlled hog operation s in the state. just so folks know todds hogs are bought at auction transferd to a holding controled area at his ranch and when a group of hunter buys them he trailors them out and usually the next day are the day after they are shot sows and gasterated boars for the most part.


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## nacho

I tagged along with a friend on one of the corrine hog hunts. Him and his brother each shot one and they were both castrated.......


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## proutdoors

If anyone where to shoot and attempt to eat an uncut domestic boar they would be puking.......nothing nastier. An old boar that is cut needs to be 'cleaned out' for a minimum of six weeks or it will still be rank and GROSS!


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## stablebuck

this law is absolutely necessary...the incentive to hunt hogs only proliferates their populations. Hogs are nasty, filthy creatures and they will over power elk and deer populations. Plus they don't have antlers. If you're a landowner then set up some traps and catch em and kill em that way. The Corrine operation is a joke and the very reason that Utah needs this law...those guys know they can get more money by charging some knucklehead to come out and shoot a "feral" (that term being used VERY loosely) hog than they would by shipping the hog off to market. So why not just keep releasing hogs and collecting money???


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## Huge29

This reminds me of the Michigan law that required farmers to destroy any hogs that had any sort of feral ancestry even though the mere fact of being in a domestic farm operation completely contradicts the definition of domestic vs. feral.


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## wyogoob

proutdoors said:


> If anyone where to shoot and attempt to eat an uncut domestic boar they would be puking.......nothing nastier. An old boar that is cut needs to be 'cleaned out' for a minimum of six weeks or it will still be rank and GROSS!


Truer words were never spoken.


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## mack1950

i concure with both pro and wyo and i beleive thats the main reason the todds dont put boars into the mix the sows and casterated hogs on his property have about as much chanch at breeding as a sterile rainbow unless your beleive in imaculate conception than theres a problem. his operation while it may not have been hunting as we call it gave many a kid and beginning hunter a chanch to go out and harvest there first animal and beleive me you couldnt tell my grandson he wasnt hunting lol you would have thought he harvested a 400 class bull the seed of a new hunter has been cast know he s out scouting with his dad and i more and watching alot less tv. as for as the true ferral hog s thats a diffrent story they do need to be totally eliminated but with strong guidelines a operation like the one in corine should be allowed to operate.


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## proutdoors

I know several chairbound hunters have been able to enjoy hunting on these operations as well. In fact, Monday when I was helping two on the turkey opener, they both talked about how much fun they had going after hogs on the place over by Price. IMO, this is a knee jerk reaction that will have many unintended consequences. As was mentioned, Michigan recently passed a STUPID bill that has resulted in HUNDREDS of domestic heritage hogs to be shoot and left to rot in pens/fields by state employees.....and for what purpose? Insanity has sadly become the norm in this country and in this state!


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## swbuckmaster

The law is just plane stupid! Any time you have some pin head anti hunter come in and tell you how to hunt its ends up being a loose loose for the hunter. Even though these types of hunts aren't my cup of tea they are defiantly someone else's and as a hunter it is not my place to look down on how another hunter wants to hunt.


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## massmanute

Contact your state congressman and senator and discuss the issue with them.


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## massmanute

What measures could be taken that would allow hog hunting on private land while minimizing the risks? Specific ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## swbuckmaster

castrated animals is all you need. They already are though. A pig farm raised pig is in no way shape or form going to turn wild. They can barley walk. They are so stupid you could walk up to them and slit their throat with a knife. Serious a cow is more wild. Now if your talking about wild pigs Im not sure there is anything you could do because if they get away they could still do harm to the environment in the form of rooting up vegetation. But if they were castrated they couldn't reproduce.


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## InvaderZim

And we can just trust them to do it? 

You ever see Jurrasic Park?


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## massmanute

InvaderZim said:


> And we can just trust them to do it?
> 
> You ever see Jurrasic Park?


There could be penalties for failure to comply, just as there are for most laws and regulations.


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## InvaderZim

I don't think you folks really understand what happens when feral hogs take over, do ya? Once its done its done, aint no going back, and aint no fine gonna fix it.


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## massmanute

InvaderZim said:


> I don't think you folks really understand what happens when feral hogs take over, do ya? Once its done its done, aint no going back, and aint no fine gonna fix it.


OK, do this then. Show us all the documentation of any large self sustaining feral hog population that has been established in an area with habitat highly similar to habitats in Utah.

On the topic of fines, it is clear that fines cannot reverse something that has already happened. A fine is intended to act as a deterrent, much as the death penalty is intended to act as a deterrent against murder, not as way to reverse the act of murder.

Fines are not the only possible measure. For example, there could be fees and bonding requirements with the funds set aside to kill hogs that have escaped from a preserve. There can be free hunts to pursue escapees. There can be requirements that operators pursue and kill escapees. There can be fencing requirement designed to reduce the likleyhood of escape. There can be legal remedies property owners can apply against hunting operators that have escaped hogs. There are many possible ways of dealing with the issue establishment of feral populations. This discussion has only scratched the surface.

In any case, if hogs stocked on a preserve are limited to females and/or castrated males then there is no possibility of establishment of feral populations derived from hunting preserves.


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## swbuckmaster

there is how many hog farms already in Utah Zim? Dont you think they would have had a population of hogs explode already if it was a problem in the hundred or so years they have been around?

comon


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## GaryFish

A hog farm, is different than a hog hunting/shooting operation where the hogs are turned out to run around.


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## massmanute

GaryFish said:


> A hog farm, is different than a hog hunting/shooting operation where the hogs are turned out to run around.


Actually, some hog farms do turn their animals out to run around. Here is a quote from the web page of Utah Natural Meat:

"Our pigs are happy pigs! They spend their days outside in the sunshine and fresh air, with plenty of space to root and grass to lay in...."

Here is a link to their operation"

utahnaturalmeat.com

Here is a link to Running Water Farms, just over the border in Evanston:

http://www.runningwaterfarms.com/content/?page=11

They feature "Pastured Pork".

Christiansen's Family Farm in Vernon, Utah features "pasture raised Berkshire pork":

http://christiansenfarm.com/?q=node/3

And I am pretty sure these are not the only farms in or near Utah that let their pigs out to pasture.


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## stablebuck

allowing hog hunting in Utah is definitely not worth the possible negative effects...end of story...


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## massmanute

Actually, hog hunting has been going on in Utah for a number of years, and there is no evidence that I am aware of that feral hogs have established themselves in the state as a result of this activity. The legislature is just getting around to banning the practice, which probably amounts to fixing a problem that might not even exist.

Keep in mind that the habitat in Utah is very different from the habitat in Tennessee. The Utah environment is probably not very conducive to the establishment of a large self sustaining population of feral swine, but in any case I believe that with appropriate safeguards the risk can be small.


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## GaryFish

What gets me, is that they are voting to ban pig shoots, but it is the same legislature that legalized confined shooting operations for captive deer and elk. In principle, its no different in my book.


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## swbuckmaster

I dont know why we as hunters will pick apart the way another person way of hunting. I could care less if I ever hunted one of these pig shoots. However it would be a blast to take a bunch of kids and turn them loose. 

If there was any way these pigs could destroy the farms like they do in texas i would not want them here. pig farms have already been here for hundred + years and so far there hast been an explosion in wild pigs.


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## stablebuck

massmanute said:


> Keep in mind that the habitat in Utah is very different from the habitat in Tennessee. The Utah environment is *probably* not very conducive to the establishment of a large self sustaining population of feral swine, but in any case I believe that with appropriate safeguards the risk can be small.


I've lived in CO, UT, TX, and TN...I've hunted hogs in TX, AL, and TN. "probably" or "probably not" aren't exactly comforting odds when you're talking about a resource that you do not individually own. Other states have been allowing hog hunting for decades now and after all the results are in the consensus is that hog hunting is not worth the destruction and disease they could potentially cause. Utah is just wisely following suit.
There are plenty of other hunting opportunities for youth (dove, waterfowl, small game, bowfishing).


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## proutdoors

stablebuck said:


> massmanute said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the habitat in Utah is very different from the habitat in Tennessee. The Utah environment is *probably* not very conducive to the establishment of a large self sustaining population of feral swine, but in any case I believe that with appropriate safeguards the risk can be small.
> 
> 
> 
> I've lived in CO, UT, TX, and TN...I've hunted hogs in TX, AL, and TN. "probably" or "probably not" aren't exactly comforting odds when you're talking about a resource that you do not individually own. Other states have been allowing hog hunting for decades now and after all the results are in the consensus is that hog hunting is not worth the destruction and disease they could potentially cause. Utah is just wisely following suit.
> There are plenty of other hunting opportunities for youth (dove, waterfowl, small game, bowfishing).
Click to expand...

Nonsense! For starters, ALL the hog 'hunting' operations in Utah use domesticated pigs that are simply turned out. That means there is NO risk of a feral population 'taking over' Utah. Also, whether the intentions behind this proposed ban are good or bad, the results will be BAD. I run a hog operation, and all my hogs are pastured, and STUPID over-reactive bills like this one would needlessly force me to change how I raise the best tasting pork possible. I live in Sanpete County, and the risk of feral hogs taking over is ZERO, so why make it difficult for people in this county to raise live stock, or even have a pig hunt? This is yet another example of inane government action!!! :evil:


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## bwhntr

I 100% agree Pro! This is BS legislation with no real backing or reasoning for the ban.


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## stablebuck

Pro, you are just anti-government regulation in general which I can sympathize with on most issues. On this issue I have to disagree though. I am totally against taking any chances when it comes to introducing non-native species into an ecosystem. Whether we are talking about wolves, brown tree snakes, european starlings, burmese pythons, etc. Quick question: hogs can live in more places than mule deer...true or false? One more: hogs will outcompete mule deer for the same resources...true or false?
I want you to have as much freedom as possible raising your hogs on your farm...make no mistake about it.
However, the Corinne operation is a joke to 90% of the sportsmen out there and I'm not willing for 10% of the "hunters" out there to risk the public resources that we all own.
Fostering hog hunting and expecting to keep it under "control" is like giving a monkey a knife and expecting to not get inadvertently cut. Eventually people are going to want to test the boundaries, and that's fine if you're talking about land that you OWN, but that's not ok with me if we're talking about public land that could potentially be affected. Anyone have a quick figure on what percentage of Utah is public land?
So Pro by all means continue your thing on the pig farm so we can have delicious bacon and sausage. I don't want to upset you too much since you do own a bunch of hogs that you could chop me up and feed me to


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## massmanute

stablebuck said:


> ...There are plenty of other hunting opportunities for youth (dove, waterfowl, small game, bowfishing).


I think we will have to disagree on that point. Now that hog hunting has been banned in Utah I am not aware of any opportunities for year-round hunting of good-tasting big game-sized animals in Utah.

I suppose on could cite "Corsican ram" hunting offered at one pay-to-hunt ranch, but not everyone would put a mature ram in the "good tasting" category, and in any case that hunt is somewhat more expensive.

Maybe you know of some other opportunities.


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## stablebuck

massmanute said:


> stablebuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...There are plenty of other hunting opportunities for youth (dove, waterfowl, small game, bowfishing).
> 
> 
> 
> I think we will have to disagree on that point. Now that hog hunting has been banned in Utah I am not aware of any opportunities for year-round hunting of good-tasting big game-sized animals in Utah.
> 
> I suppose on could cite "Corsican ram" hunting offered at one pay-to-hunt ranch, but not everyone would put a mature ram in the "good tasting" category, and in any case that hunt is somewhat more expensive.
> 
> Maybe you know of some other opportunities.
Click to expand...

aren't kids supposed to be doing yard work, working summer jobs, and hanging out at the lake during the summer time???


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## proutdoors

stablebuck said:


> However, the Corinne operation is a joke to 90% of the sportsmen out there and I'm not willing for 10% of the "hunters" out there to risk the public resources that we all own.
> Fostering hog hunting and expecting to keep it under "control" is like giving a monkey a knife and expecting to not get inadvertently cut. Eventually people are going to want to test the boundaries, and that's fine if you're talking about land that you OWN, but that's not ok with me if we're talking about public land that could potentially be affected. Anyone have a quick figure on what percentage of Utah is public land?
> So Pro by all means continue your thing on the pig farm so we can have delicious bacon and sausage. I don't want to upset you too much since you do own a bunch of hogs that you could chop me up and feed me to


Since when is liberty based upon popularity? How long has the Corinne hog hunting operation been around, and how many feral hogs as resulted from this operation? This is NOT about "testing the boundaries", it is about offering goods/services that people want. And, I won't even go into one of my 'tirades' about public land.................. :O•-:

Alas, I only feed my hogs grasses.......NO meat, and NO corn! So, you are safe. :twisted:


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## coyoteslayer

These pigs that we killed were *ALL casterated* so the odds of these 5 pigs to ever produce offspring when they were alive is zero since they were all *shooting blanks*. I also know that if a bunch of pigs were turned loose or got loose somehow then it wouldn't take long before they were eliminated because a lot of hunters would be after them. These pigs don't have any survival skills.


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## richardjb

coyoteslayer said:


> These pigs that we killed were *ALL casterated* so the odds of these 5 pigs to ever produce offspring when they were alive is zero since they were all *shooting blanks*. I also know that if a bunch of pigs were turned loose or got loose somehow then it wouldn't take long before they were eliminated because a lot of hunters would be after them. These pigs don't have any survival skills.


Hey, FACTS will not be tolerated here!


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## coyoteslayer

richardjb said:


> coyoteslayer said:
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> These pigs that we killed were *ALL casterated* so the odds of these 5 pigs to ever produce offspring when they were alive is zero since they were all *shooting blanks*. I also know that if a bunch of pigs were turned loose or got loose somehow then it wouldn't take long before they were eliminated because a lot of hunters would be after them. These pigs don't have any survival skills.
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> Hey, FACTS will not be tolerated here!
Click to expand...

oops, I forgot!! :lol: :lol:


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## richardjb

Co-worker went down to Castledale a year ago or 2. I was hoping to try it. Some folks will never understand fun. I feel sorry for them. I took a penned buffalo years ago, worth every penny!


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## perdiz

In Utah the only good wild hog is a dead wild hog.


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## coyoteslayer

Yes, because they taste so much better when their dead.


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## perdiz

killed many of these nasties in Texas along with Javelina


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