# Utah wildlife/ forest law enforcement?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm just wondering everyone's opinion on Utahs law enforcement including wildlife, Forest Service, and BLM . Personally I have been checked by a DWR officer only 4 times in the last 10 years , and with the amount I've hunted and fished that is very minuscule to be checked only that amount of times. Forest service only once in the last 10 years have I seen an officer out ensuring people are obeying trail laws, and BLM 0 times in the last 10 years ensuring people are out obeying trail laws. 

My frustration is that reading posts from other states, it seems people are checked more often than I feel i ever have been here , and every time I see tracks off road or down a closed road it's frustrating to know it's happening all the time . I understand there aren't enough people for the job but I still feel there is a far lack of effort in checking, catching, and fining people who are breaking the law.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I got stopped on the way out of Strawberry by a US FS road block checking fish. They were handing out a TON of tickets to people for slot cuts. We had a cooler full of nice Kokes and the officer who checked us was floored and was begging for tips / locations hehehe.

That's the only time I've seen FS people check licences / harvests.


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I think the DWR CO's do a good job with the limited resources they have. Maybe I look like a dirtbag, but I get checked all the time. I got checked at Strawberry yesterday in fact. (I don't mind this and had a nice 15 minute conversation with the CO) This is not unusual. I usually get checked 2-3 times a year while ice fishing Strawberry. I also often get checked at Fish Lake while ice fishing. I got checked last year while on an antlerless elk hunt. One or two times while fishing elsewhere in the recent past. 

As for Forest service and BLM law enforcement, I've never seen them out much, except the guy at Silver Lake in Big Cottonwood canyon that makes sure that the city people stay on the boardwalk and don't try to feed the moose. 

Maybe I spend a fair bit of time in counties where the county commissioners have made it clear they don't want BLM and FS law enforcement around.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I got stopped on the way out of Strawberry by a US FS road block checking fish. They were handing out a TON of tickets to people for slot cuts. We had a cooler full of nice Kokes and the officer who checked us was floored and was begging for tips / locations hehehe.
> 
> That's the only time I've seen FS people check licences / harvests.


I would just like to see them handing out tickets for people riding on trails they closed three days earlier. I hate trying to walk into an area and have a wheeler ride down a closed road and ruin it. BLM land during the winter is a joke, no BLM officers and people just blow through the brush and make a road wherever they want.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Catherder said:


> I think the DWR CO's do a good job with the limited resources they have. Maybe I look like a dirtbag, but I get checked all the time. I got checked at Strawberry yesterday in fact. (I don't mind this and had a nice 15 minute conversation with the CO) This is not unusual. I usually get checked 2-3 times a year while ice fishing Strawberry. I also often get checked at Fish Lake while ice fishing. I got checked last year while on an antlerless elk hunt. One or two times while fishing elsewhere in the recent past.
> 
> As for Forest service and BLM law enforcement, I've never seen them out much, except the guy at Silver Lake in Big Cottonwood canyon that makes sure that the city people stay on the boardwalk and don't try to feed the moose.
> 
> Maybe I spend a fair bit of time in counties where the county commissioners have made it clear they don't want BLM and FS law enforcement around.


Your last paragraph is telling. Although I've never ran into them finally down here around Richfield some BLM officer transferred in from out of state and started handing out tickets like mad ( this was only a couple years ago) Although he was always in the right he received lots of criticism and bad PR. He told a person I know that he checked he didn't care he was there to do his job and clean things up around here. He stopped some dip**** for speeding on the mountain and the guy threw a fit and blamed him for 2 dead goats on his over -loaded trailer and that by him stopping him the goats died and he threatened to sue the BLM. Needless to say after about 6 months of doing a good job he was transferred back out of the area and yet again there's no law enforcement doing there job like he was. He was looked at as an *******, in reality we finally had someone doing there job and I wish he was still in the area.


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I get checked every year on the bow hunt by the same lady every time and she is really nice. I have not been checked fro my fishing linc for so many years I for got how long same with duck hunting,


----------



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Limited resources.... I would like to see them save their energy and be ready to go when they get a poaching tip or violation phone call. I think we as hunters can help be the eyes and ears for these CO's but they've got to be able to follow up and hop in the bat mobile when called!


----------



## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

I know several C.O.s personally and have been on numerous ride alongs. I can tell you that our C.O.s are stretched thin and rely on sportsmen/women for tips on wildlife violations. I've been checked in the field a few times. But, just because you don't get checked doesn't mean your not being watched! 

We could use more officers at the UDWR level! Overall I'd say they are doing the best they can with the resources they are given. They love their job, at least the ones I know. They are not doing it for the money!!

As far as federal law enforcement! That's a whole different deal. In extreme western box elder county I tend to see more sheriffs than blm officers. I don't know how many federal officers are assigned to our districts being either N.F. Lands or BLM lands. So there could be a lot more sheriffs than blm officers in box elder county.

When you become a peace officer for the state of Utah. It's my understanding that individual upholds the ALL laws pertaining to the state. So a municipality, county, hwy patrol, federal and state wildlife upholds wildlife laws as well as any other laws. But most don't because they are not trained or don't know the laws! But i am no lawyer so I'm unsure of how the jurisdictions and all that stuff works as well....


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Elkaholic2 said:


> I know several C.O.s personally and have been on numerous ride alongs. I can tell you that our C.O.s are stretched thin and rely on sportsmen/women for tips on wildlife violations. I've been checked in the field a few times. But, just because you don't get checked doesn't mean your not being watched!
> 
> We could use more officers at the UDWR level! Overall I'd say they are doing the best they can with the resources they are given. They love their job, at least the ones I know. They are not doing it for the money!!
> 
> ...


I don't have as much criticism for DWR officers. It's the BLM and Forest Service that I just don't get. Where are they? I never see any of them. I want to see them out and about making sure people are staying on designated trails laying out fines but I never run into them, I'd just like to know where they are.


----------



## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Not the case in my neck of the woods. Lately I have seen actual road blocks on the opening weekends. We reported a guy near the wildcat wma who was trespassing.on private property the co was there in matter of an hour. I watched them hand out everything from open containers to ammo violations on the north slope a few years ago. And have personally been checked for my fishing and hunting license pretty often the past few Year s . They are doing a fine job imo.and their poaching blitz they are doing this year they are taking pretty serious. I had a officer ask me if he could set a decoy up on my property this year.


----------



## spencerD (Jan 14, 2014)

I get checked by DWR guys a lot while out fishing. More often than not up Fairview canyon and that area. Been checked once at Yuba, and obviously never when I've been out in the sticks of the Uintas or Boulder on more remote lakes. 

I was at Gooseberry Res in the fall, before the big cold snap we had, and was stringing up my fly rod to go hit the stream for a little bit. I saw a Forest Service truck pull up into the small parking area by the bathroom on the north end of the Res. 

Forest Service guy got out, walked around for a bit, talked to a few people who were shore fishing, and then got back in his truck and left. Didn't ask to see licenses, theirs or mine. Thought it was really weird he'd drive in there, see people fishing, and not check a license.


----------



## Azar (Oct 21, 2014)

I get checked by UDWR nearly every year while hunting and occasionally while fishing. I seem to always come upon them while driving to or from my area. I don't think I've had any issues with any DWR agents. Usually they are quite friendly and polite and even occasionally offer advice about game movements or just BS with you for a while.

The only recent encounter with with a FS Ranger wasn't a good one. The guy was a total tool. I was turkey hunting around Tropic and spotted 5 or so turkeys about 500 yards off along a hillside. There was a barbed-wire fence, but it wasn't posted and the land wasn't cultivated.

After attempting to get over where the turkeys had been spotted we tried to call them in, but no luck. A few hours later when coming back to the truck a FS Ranger is waiting for us. He's acting all pissed because it's private land and don't I know I was trespassing on so-and-so's land?!

Nope, I didn't seeing how it wasn't properly posted or cultivated for crops. He claimed that it doesn't need to be posted, that it's my responsibility to know if it's public or private. I told him Utah law disagreed with him. That got angry sputters out of him.

He wrote down my hunting license number and my and my fathers drivers license number while his rookie kid companion just smirked an arrogant smile at us. He then told us that we shouldn't be parking where we did because we were crushing wild flowers (no kidding!) and should have parked further down the road where there weren't any. We told him we'd park further down if we came back into the area and left.

What a clown.


----------



## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Deer/Elk hunting this year I saw: 

1) An old guy tearing up and down a hiking trail on a motorcycle, illegally, giving us dirty looks.
2) Some jackass kid on an ATV up Hobble Creek, riding past a sign that said no OHVs, going 10 MPH in front of me directly in the middle of the road for a mile.
3) A couple cattlemen using an OHV on a road that's been closed for 20 years, cutting timber in the middle of the deer season.
4) Cows roaming off their Forest Service lease for weeks without tickets to the owners of the cattle.
5) A guy on a motocross bike flying through deer hunter country in a tan riding outfit, before dawn in the dark, looking like a deer on the hoof.
6) Several obese DWR agents in the remote office at the Rainbow Bay dock on Deer Creek, eating donuts and screwing around on the internet.
7) A check station down Diamond Fork during the deer hunt that they broadcasted on the internet and through local media so all the poachers could avoid them.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

hazmat said:


> Not the case in my neck of the woods. Lately I have seen actual road blocks on the opening weekends. We reported a guy near the wildcat wma who was trespassing.on private property the co was there in matter of an hour. I watched them hand out everything from open containers to ammo violations on the north slope a few years ago. And have personally been checked for my fishing and hunting license pretty often the past few Year s . They are doing a fine job imo.and their poaching blitz they are doing this year they are taking pretty serious. I had a officer ask me if he could set a decoy up on my property this year.


Sad but true. I saw many of the same things. People aren't going to obey trail laws if law enforcement isn't there as a constant reminder of what its going to cost them. I feel DWR officers do, do a decent job with the man power they have, and at least I see a few of there trucks once in a while. I would guess there are more federal agents than DWR law enforcement employees and yet I can't remember the last time I saw a BLM ranger truck, or a Forest Service Ranger out and about patrolling trails and the mountains ensuring everyone was obeying the law. I'm not for being constantly harassed by law enforcement but I wouldn't mind being checked a few times a year by each or at least see their presence once in a while. We have a forest service and BLM office here in Richfield, you can never get a hold of these people in their office, and yet you never see them in the field, so where the hell are they? Cattle allowed to graze well into November in some areas on public land illegally and ATV's blowing through closed roads or no roads at all with no consequences. Very frustrating when you see the 25 new pickups sitting at there office buildings that don't seem to really move or get used and the 50 people who work there but are never available or seen.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Azar said:


> I get checked by UDWR nearly every year while hunting and occasionally while fishing. I seem to always come upon them while driving to or from my area. I don't think I've had any issues with any DWR agents. Usually they are quite friendly and polite and even occasionally offer advice about game movements or just BS with you for a while.
> 
> The only recent encounter with with a FS Ranger wasn't a good one. The guy was a total tool. I was turkey hunting around Tropic and spotted 5 or so turkeys about 500 yards off along a hillside. There was a barbed-wire fence, but it wasn't posted and the land wasn't cultivated.
> 
> ...


Actually just a few years ago Utah's law changed on trespass I believe. The private land no longer has to be posted or cultivated. Now if it is either cultivated, posted, and/or has a fence around it, you must obtain permission from the landowner. Its a little dumb IMO, posting your land isn't that hard, and there are plenty people who don't post it because they don't mind people hunting on it, but if it has a fence around it I believe now in Utah you must obtain written permission. It has been a fairly recent change I believe, its hard to keep up with ever-changing laws sometimes.


----------



## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I'm just wondering everyone's opinion on Utahs law enforcement including wildlife, Forest Service, and BLM . Personally I have been checked by a DWR officer only 4 times in the last 10 years , and with the amount I've hunted and fished that is very minuscule to be checked only that amount of times. Forest service only once in the last 10 years have I seen an officer out ensuring people are obeying trail laws, and BLM 0 times in the last 10 years ensuring people are out obeying trail laws.
> 
> My frustration is that reading posts from other states, it seems people are checked more often than I feel i ever have been here , and every time I see tracks off road or down a closed road it's frustrating to know it's happening all the time . I understand there aren't enough people for the job but I still feel there is a far lack of effort in checking, catching, and fining people who are breaking the law.


Common sense and basic math should tell you that given the 5-10 enforcement officers per 1000+ square miles in each ranger district would result in a very slight chance of ever seeing one. Using 1000 divided by 5 you get 200, so given a 1000 square mile area you have a one in two hundred chance of being checked, one in a hundred if they have 10 officers in that same 1000 square mile area. In 3 years I have only had my license checked a couple times while fishing, never while hunting. So although I agree with needing more enforcement I do not envy those in that career field.


----------



## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Azar said:


> I get checked by UDWR nearly every year while hunting and occasionally while fishing. I seem to always come upon them while driving to or from my area. I don't think I've had any issues with any DWR agents. Usually they are quite friendly and polite and even occasionally offer advice about game movements or just BS with you for a while.
> 
> The only recent encounter with with a FS Ranger wasn't a good one. The guy was a total tool. I was turkey hunting around Tropic and spotted 5 or so turkeys about 500 yards off along a hillside. There was a barbed-wire fence, but it wasn't posted and the land wasn't cultivated.
> 
> ...


As someone else mentioned, the laws on private land has changed recently, land owners no longer have to post or cultivate to be considered as private. It is now your responsibility to know before you go. Sucks for sure but that's the new law.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> It's the BLM and Forest Service that I just don't get. Where are they? I never see any of them. I want to see them out and about making sure people are staying on designated trails laying  out fines but I never run into them, I'd just like to know where they are.


Mesquite, NV.



spencerD said:


> Thought it was really weird he'd drive in there, see people fishing, and not check a license.


I hear people complain all the time about "not getting checked for a license". I'm curious: how big of an issue is license compliance?

he may not have checked to see if you have a valid license, but maybe he wasn't looking for those violations. Maybe he was looking for drugs? Maybe he was looking for over limit violations. Maybe he was looking for "the mountain man"? Maybe he was out tracking a dead signal on a collar and simply stopped to see how fishing was?

Just because a LEO didn't ask to see your license doesn't mean he didn't "check" you.

I see highway patrol officers and city police all the time -- and it doesn't bother me a bit that they don't pull me over just to see if I have a legal drivers license. In fact, I think I'd be rather upset if I was pulled over only to verify I had a license.

I've only once had a Fed pull me over. It was in 2004. Silly park ranger watched me shoot a 4-point buck, then threw a fit that I did it after "legal shooting hours" because I shot after the sun had gone down. I gps'd the location, and according to the parky's own statement I was perfectly legal -- by about 25 minutes! UDWR tossed the citation the parky had me issued. The local sheriff followed me home (yes, the parky called the sheriff and UDWR LEO) and skinned my deer for me! I think the parky had bigger issues -- I don't think he liked hunting on the Staircase at all. Oh well. Good times.

Someone should do a GRAMA request on the number of ATV tickets issued on the Fish / Dix National Forest by USFS law enforcement. I'd bet the answer is: 0


----------



## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I was driving up second right hand canyon off of Parowan canyon and a couple of USFS guys were coming down the canyon on an ATV, we stopped and I started talking with the guy driving the ATV, just chit chat for about 5 or 10 minutes and his passenger on the back kept craning his neck looking over my ATV and I finally smiled and pulled back a coat that was tied on the back so he could see the registration sticker and said: "is that what you are looking for", he sheepishly said yes, I just smiled and told them to have a nice day and drove off.

I get checked for fishing once or twice every two to three years, not too often. I don't ever remember being checked for hunting other than checking in my Cougar.


----------



## Azar (Oct 21, 2014)

30-06-hunter said:


> As someone else mentioned, the laws on private land has changed recently, land owners no longer have to post or cultivate to be considered as private. It is now your responsibility to know before you go. Sucks for sure but that's the new law.


I had heard that, but this was a few years before that law went into effect. I find that change stupid as there are large tracts of BLM land that are public but are also fenced.

Going to have to keep plenty of plat maps on hand I guess.


----------



## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

30-06-hunter said:


> Common sense and basic math should tell you that given the 5-10 enforcement officers per 1000+ square miles in each ranger district would result in a very slight chance of ever seeing one. Using 1000 divided by 5 you get 200, so given a 1000 square mile area you have a one in two hundred chance of being checked, one in a hundred if they have 10 officers in that same 1000 square mile area. In 3 years I have only had my license checked a couple times while fishing, never while hunting. So although I agree with needing more enforcement I do not envy those in that career field.


Could even be larger areas than that for federal officers?


----------



## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Elkaholic2 said:


> Could even be larger areas than that for federal officers?


Yes, as a question or statement both would be true.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I see LE officers just about every time I go out in the backcountry/or front country. They might be hiding behind a tree or under a rock but they are there watching. Always watching.
If I was a poacher, I would just hang up any ideas of doing any more illegal activities with the good chance of being caught these days.


----------



## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

30-06-hunter said:


> As someone else mentioned, the laws on private land has changed recently, land owners no longer have to post or cultivate to be considered as private. It is now your responsibility to know before you go. Sucks for sure but that's the new law.


Actually, not all fences qualify for this law! In fact, most rural fences don't!

Page 39 2014 Big Game Field Regulations Guidebook:

"fenced or enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders"

It might be vague, but a simple barbed wire fence with livestock behind it isn't likely to count and that's probably why that officer was frustrated and didn't issue a citation. He knew it wouldn't hold up in court. On the other hand, the landowner could file a complaint under other trespass laws.


----------



## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Jedidiah said:


> Deer/Elk hunting this year I saw:
> 
> 1) An old guy tearing up and down a hiking trail on a motorcycle, illegally, giving us dirty looks.
> 2) Some jackass kid on an ATV up Hobble Creek, riding past a sign that said no OHVs, going 10 MPH in front of me directly in the middle of the road for a mile.
> ...


I forgot....#8. Exactly zero DWR or any other type of officers in the actual hunting areas after 100+ hours of dealing with general season shenanigans.

About the Forest Service guys, half of them are tree hugger PETA-member hippy types with an unnatural physical attraction to specific types of timber. I doubt they realize that most of the money that pays for the lands they're working comes from us.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Jedidiah said:


> I forgot....#8. Exactly zero DWR or any other type of officers in the actual hunting areas after 100+ hours of dealing with general season shenanigans.
> 
> About the Forest Service guys, half of them are tree hugger PETA-member hippy types with an unnatural physical attraction to specific types of timber. I doubt they realize that most of the money that pays for the lands they're working comes from us.


What actions did you take? Any? Or did you just keep a running list?


----------



## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

My Dad and brother have both worked for the FS, as seasonals. What many need to realize, is that most FS employees have zero authority to write tickets or enforce anything. The state made that even more difficult with their stupid law prohibiting federal agencies from enforcing state laws (Been tossed out in court now I believe). And that has already been stated, there is a severe lack of man power on all fronts.


----------



## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I get checked about once a year between hunting and fishing on average.
They have all been very pleasant and polite.


----------



## Hunterchick (Dec 4, 2014)

MKP said:


> My Dad and brother have both worked for the FS, as seasonals. What many need to realize, is that most FS employees have zero authority to write tickets or enforce anything. The state made that even more difficult with their stupid law prohibiting federal agencies from enforcing state laws (Been tossed out in court now I believe). And that has already been stated, there is a severe lack of man power on all fronts.


This is false. I know someone who got a ticket last spring from a FS guy, for driving his truck on a road past where the plows stopped and before there was a gate saying "road closed". Their reasoning was it was "dangerous" and tears up the snow pack which makes it difficult for snowmobiles to travel on... Or something along those lines. It was bs. Anyways the judge laughed and threw it out, but a ticket was issued.


----------



## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

Hunterchick said:


> This is false. I know someone who got a ticket last spring from a FS guy, for driving his truck on a road past where the plows stopped and before there was a gate saying "road closed". Their reasoning was it was "dangerous" and tears up the snow pack which makes it difficult for snowmobiles to travel on... Or something along those lines. It was bs. Anyways the judge laughed and threw it out, but a ticket was issued.


What is false? I said _most_ do not have the authority? Some do obviously. And I know for a fact a lot of them are dicks. As for the state law prohibiting federal enforcement of state law, that was tossed out by a judge sometime ago. Seems to happen fairly often with Utah laws.


----------

