# The Taysom Hill Enigma



## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Guess who is the lowest rated passer in the entire NCAA? That's right: Taysom Hill. 

Guess who is the highest rated rusher in the NCAA? Right again: Taysom Hill. 

Can he make it through the season unhurt if he continues to run the ball this much? 

Can BYU continue to win by running the ball without using the pass?

If BYU does pass, is the 25-30% completion ratio what Cougars fans can expect?

Your thoughts?


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

No he wont last the entire season at this pace. From here on out starting with Utah they will load up on the run and make him pass. If he continues to throw like crap BYU will not be able to beat the better teams they play. 

All that said, Texas has some great D lineman and they could not stop him so what do I know?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That is what blew me away about Texas and what got the DC fired, they did not force him to beat them with the pass. Better defensive teams like next week's opponent wil do so.


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## trclements (Jan 17, 2012)

He is Riley Nelson 2.0 and there is no way he is going to be able to stay healthy if he is trying to run it that much every game. His natural instinct is to run first, pass second and QBs that do that get injured. Once a team learns to stop the run all the praise Bronco and Taysom have been getting will quickly turn the other way and BYU fans will be calling for Bronco to be fired.

But in reality at this point nothing matters anymore. BYU already lost a game so they will be playing in the Fight Hunger Bowl. Their ambitions for a BCS busting season ended on August 31st. Welcome to independence where you don't have the chance at a conference championship game to put yourself in a BCS bowl.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

trclements said:


> Welcome to independence where you don't have the chance at a conference championship game to put yourself in a BCS bowl.


Hooey. Independence has nothing to do with not getting a chance at a BCS bowl. A conference championship in the MTN wouldn't have gotten us there either.


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## trclements (Jan 17, 2012)

Dodger said:


> Hooey. Independence has nothing to do with not getting a chance at a BCS bowl. A conference championship in the MTN wouldn't have gotten us there either.


I agree with you in that a MWC championship wouldn't help them anymore than independence. What I was trying to say is you need to be in a big conference that has an agreement with one of the BCS bowls to take their conference champions every year like the Pac-12 and Big-10 have with the Rose Bowl. Utah in there first year in the PAC-12 was one win over Colorado away from playing in the PAC-12 conference championship game against Oregon and would have only had a record of 8-4 going into that game. If they some how managed to upset Oregon in that game they would have gone to the Rose Bowl as 9-4 team. I get that it wasn't going to happen, but the possibility is always there. BYU doesn't have that option ever as an independent. With one loss they are stuck in the bowl game they have a contract with which is the Hunger Bowl this year. They have to have an undefeated season which is near impossible these days in any conference to get into a BCS bowl. One loss might get you in if you have an extremely difficult season and play and beat a number of teams that are ranked and stay ranked towards the end of the season.

The MWC obviously wasn't a good place for BYU to stay, but a couple years ago when the Big 12 was sniffing around they should have done everything in their power to get into that conference instead of being so worried about keeping their TV deal with ESPN that allows them to rebroadcast all their game on BYU TV. If BYU really does want to be taken serious as a consistent top 25 football program year in and year out they either need to get at least 11 wins per year or somehow find a way into a big conference.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm thinking that a 70 to 7 win over Weber State should propel a bottom dwelling PAC 12 team into at least a Hunger Bowl appearance too. Is it possible?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

In related news http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...aps-had-himself-a-decent-debut-in-Kansas.html


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> I'm thinking that a 70 to 7 win over Weber State should propel a bottom dwelling PAC 12 team into at least a Hunger Bowl appearance too. Is it possible?


 Being a Texas fan, what are your thoughts on that game? Overrated or what?


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

trclements said:


> I agree with you in that a MWC championship wouldn't help them anymore than independence. What I was trying to say is you need to be in a big conference that has an agreement with one of the BCS bowls to take their conference champions every year like the Pac-12 and Big-10 have with the Rose Bowl. Utah in there first year in the PAC-12 was one win over Colorado away from playing in the PAC-12 conference championship game against Oregon and would have only had a record of 8-4 going into that game. If they some how managed to upset Oregon in that game they would have gone to the Rose Bowl as 9-4 team. I get that it wasn't going to happen, but the possibility is always there. BYU doesn't have that option ever as an independent. With one loss they are stuck in the bowl game they have a contract with which is the Hunger Bowl this year. They have to have an undefeated season which is near impossible these days in any conference to get into a BCS bowl. One loss might get you in if you have an extremely difficult season and play and beat a number of teams that are ranked and stay ranked towards the end of the season.
> 
> The MWC obviously wasn't a good place for BYU to stay, but a couple years ago when the Big 12 was sniffing around they should have done everything in their power to get into that conference instead of being so worried about keeping their TV deal with ESPN that allows them to rebroadcast all their game on BYU TV. If BYU really does want to be taken serious as a consistent top 25 football program year in and year out they either need to get at least 11 wins per year or somehow find a way into a big conference.


That's true except I disagree that to be taken serious as a top 25 football program year in and year out we need 11 wins a season. We've been in the top 25 almost every year for the last 20 years without winning 11 games per season.

Big conferences don't want us. They don't want to deal with us not playing on Sunday. The Big 12 doesn't want us to come in and beat Texas. The PAC 12 doesn't want us to come in and beat USC/Oregon.

We've got nowhere to go, so we go alone.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> But in reality at this point nothing matters anymore. BYU already lost a game so they will be playing in the Fight Hunger Bowl. Their ambitions for a BCS busting season ended on August 31st.


I hate this type of thinking. I never expected or even hoped for BYU to bust the BCS this year (or any other year). I want to watch good, competitive football. I'm a football fan. The Super Bowl and BCS games are too slow and have too many commercial breaks to even qualify as enjoyable most of the time. For me it's about the season, game by game. I like to watch good football games. The bowl game at the end of the season is irrelevant to my enjoyment of a football season.

Let's face it: BYU is BYU. Utah State is Utah State. These teams will not be in the BCS. Most fans of these teams don't care about that. We want to watch our teams play an enjoyable game and win more than they lose.

Let's keep this about Taysom Hill. Can BYU win without him? Because my guess is they are going to have to try at some point. It will be interesting to watch.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Dodger said:


> Big conferences don't want us. They don't want to deal with us not playing on Sunday. The Big 12 doesn't want us to come in and beat Texas. The PAC 12 doesn't want us to come in and beat USC/Oregon.
> 
> We've got nowhere to go, so we go alone.


Huh? Who are you kidding...if big conferences don't want BYU, it has nothing to do with them beating the other teams in that conference. BYU simply doesn't conform to the standards other schools do....BYU walks alone by choice not because other conferences don't want them!

As far as Taysom Hill goes, some people need to give him some time before expecting him to continue the great passing tradition. The kid is a great athlete first...the hope is that he develops into a great quarterback. I am not a BYU fan; I am a Ute fan....and his ability is scary to me! With that being said, he must get more accurate as a passer or he will not have a storied career. Right now, the Utes have a better quarterback...but, Hill might end up being the better if his accuracy improves!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

BirdDogger said:


> Guess who is the lowest rated passer in the entire NCAA? That's right: Taysom Hill.
> 
> Guess who is the highest rated rusher in the NCAA? Right again: Taysom Hill.
> 
> ...


I'll stay out of the conference stuff as that usually gets heated between utefan and cougarfan. However, my take on the questions as a utefan.

1. Can he make it through the season?

I would have my concerns. One of the ways to deal with a running QB is to dish out as much "extra" punishment to him as the rules allow (and beyond if you play for Green bay against Kaepernick). Hill already has had one injury. Another is a scary possibility. Of course, it would help if Roscoe would have him kneel down at the end of the game instead of running extra times in a sure win like last year. 

2. Can BYU win by running? Assuming that the basic game plan doesn't change, I'd predict that they would beat all the easier teams on their schedule by running and if Hill stays healthy, win a game or two against quality foes they play, just by individual brilliance and good defense. (For instance, I think the cougs will beat Boise this year) However, I would predict a couple more Virginia type stinkers where the chips don't fall right and a flurry of turnovers doom them. Overall, I see 8-4 right now for them. Hopefully one of the 4 is in 2 weeks. 

3. Expect 25-30%? I think it will come up some from these depths.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> Huh? Who are you kidding...if big conferences don't want BYU, it has nothing to do with them beating the other teams in that conference. BYU simply doesn't conform to the standards other schools do....BYU walks alone by choice not because other conferences don't want them!


If that were true, we'd be getting offers from everyone to join a conference. We aren't.

I think we learned for the last two seasons that 2 quarterback systems do not work. We also learned that running quarterbacks don't last the whole season. We don't need to have Taysom run for the whole season to find out that running quarterbacks get hurt.

His throws, especially before rain delay in VA, looked to me like he was too amped up for the game. His receivers dropped 9 catchable passes too. I don't know how many drops he had against Texas but there were quite a few. There were also several errant balls.

I think we find more passes connecting as the season goes on. Taysom's accuracy looks bad on paper but factor out the dropped balls, and the passing stats go up. Functionally, you can't do that, but I'm just pointing out, the receivers need to and haven't been doing their part to help him.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Dodger said:


> I think we find more passes connecting as the season goes on. Taysom's accuracy looks bad on paper but factor out the dropped balls, and the passing stats go up. Functionally, you can't do that, but I'm just pointing out, the receivers need to and haven't been doing their part to help him.


I would hope his accuracy improves as the season goes on....it's called time, practice, and experience. I watched the Texas game, but I didn't watch the Virginia game....my viewpoint is based on one game. But, in that one game, Hill was overthrowing, underthrowing, and passing too far behind or in front of his receivers. As a receiver in my own right back in the day, I always believed that any ball I could touch was a ball I should catch. It is easy to count some of Hill's throws as balls that were "dropped" or should have been caught. But, many of those "dropped" balls were not accurate passes and required receivers to make good or even great catches...even the announcers were commenting on his poor accuracy. The reality is that the most accurate quarterbacks also generally have the fewest drops. Hill's stats are a direct result of his accuracy despite any "dropped" balls.

As far as Hill being a running quarterback goes and whether or not he can make it through the season or not...well, you can make a good argument either way. I can think of many really good college quarterbacks whose best asset were their legs, and they did make it through the season. Heck, Tebow had an unbelievable college career as a running quarterback and I don't recall him having any major injury problems. Personally, I think the cougar coaches would be nuts not to continue using Hill as a runner...it is obviously his strength. The big question for me is whether or not BYU can win by passing. Like was repeated by Matt Millen over and over on the broadcast, any smart opposing coach would make him pass by loading up the box and committing the defense to stopping the run (It is also why Matt Diaz was fired by Texas; he didn't make any adjustments to stop BYU's running game).


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree with a lot of that. But, there were a substantial number of drops that shouldn't have been missed. I'm not saying that they were the best throws ever. I'm just saying that a ball that was "catchable" for a receiver is a drop, whether the ball was in a perfect place or not.

Not disputing that he had some bad throws at all. He did. I'm just saying, he's had a lot of drops of balls that were catchable as well. He bounced several balls off shoulder pads and numbers. Those don't bear out in the stats.

I also agree that it isn't 100% of running quarterbacks that get hurt. But, we don't have a Tebow or a Vick either. The lessons that we have learned from past seasons don't do us any good if we start running our quarterback all over the place. I saw Bronco say that he wanted Taysom to slide more than he's sliding. Tebow and Vick, to my knowledge, hadn't blown an ACL in their careers by the point Taysom is at in his career.

Maybe there are quarterbacks that can run and not get hurt. I'm just saying, BYU doesn't have one.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, I think back to the super pass happy, one-sided passing offenses. The running games in those days were not stellar at all, but were barely enough for defenses to at least have to respect it a little. That is all that is needed. For all those years, BYU seldom rushed for 100 or more yards. But it was enough.

Now that said, many teams have lived on running. And done it when the opponents knew they were going to run, and still couldn't stop it. Tom Osborne's Nebraska teams were that way. When the line can block, and you have a fast guy that can evade an open field tackle, it doesn't matter how many you put in the box. 4 yard runs get 1st downs. And if you over commit up front, then when you do miss a tackle from a slippery runner, that is when a six yard run turns into a 68 yard TD.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

It's early in the year. I believe in years past, BYU would get more sophisticated in offense as the year progressed and as players comprehended more. Part of football strategy is to plan for the opposition to scout and watch film as they prepare for you. BYU will need to change things up from game to game. It will be interesting to see if BYU can utilize other players and offensive schemes to keep the opponents guessing. I don't think BYU can rely on the QB running all the time. Hopefully, they learned from the Riley Nelson fiasco.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> As far as Taysom Hill goes, some people need to give him some time before expecting him to continue the great passing tradition. The kid is a great athlete first...the hope is that he develops into a great quarterback. I am not a BYU fan; I am a Ute fan....and his ability is scary to me! With that being said, he must get more accurate as a passer or he will not have a storied career. Right now, the Utes have a better quarterback...but, Hill might end up being the better if his accuracy improves!


Yup! After the Utah game, the same can be said. Hill is a runner first and a passer second....BYU would be wise to remember that and center their attack around it! Bad reads and poor accuracy are Hill's achilles heel!


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