# DWR making a mistake with turkey tags?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I seem to feel the DWR is making a bad decision for the upcoming turkey season. Opening 3 seasons and one hunt being statewide I just feel that this is mismanagement. Certain areas across the state can handle a lot of hunters to turkey ratio. But in a place like mine (Sevier County) giving out state wide tags over the counter could put a damper in a turkey population that is barley getting its feet off the ground. Finally this year it looks as if the few groups around my area have had a good nesting season with a good chick yield but it also seems the DWR is going to take them back out right away. I feel what they did in the past was working well and now they want more money from the turkey hunts so their going to give out a huge number of tags that in certain areas of Utah can't handle to much hunting at the time. DWR needs to hold off a few more years before having a statewide over the counter turkey season. What do you think?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I have been involved in the turkey introduction in Utah for going on 20 years. The original goal was to have OTC tags statewide. A tom turkey in the wild will live 3-4 years even if not killed by a human hunter. Since very few jakes are killed on a given year, as long as harvest numbers are restricted during the peak breeding season (April) , the number of overall turkeys will not be affected by OTC tags in May. Turkey numbers in Sevier County are at/above population objectives, so adding more tags for tomes in May will have no/very little impact on turkey populations in your county or others. Areas that have populations below objectives will remain limited in tukey permits issued as a precaution.

It will lower hunter success rates, but this is supposed to be HUNTING not killing. People in Utuah may actually have to learn how to be turkey hunters. Turkeys in Utah is one of the best conservation stories in the last 20 years in the western USA. Thanks to efforts from NWTF, SFW, many volunteers, the DWR, landowners, we have another hunting opportunity. I think a spring gobbler hunt is a great way to get the youth hooked on hunting, they can hunt them at a young age and have a blast. 

If you want a higher success rate hunt, stick to one of the two early limited tag hunts. :idea:


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Turkey numbers in Sevier County are at/above population objectives,


Sorry but I just can't believe this if the 12 turkeys (4 tombs and the rest hens) and 2 groups I seen while hunting this past April was over what they wanted well I can see I shouldn't get my hopes up for a good turkey herd around the Sevier valley. If you do know a little about it from the inside pro though, are they still going to limit tags for certain areas? Is the Monroe region one of those areas?



proutdoors said:


> If you want a higher success rate hunt, stick to one of the two early limited tag hunts.


Like I said I did, and was completely sick with the quality of the hunt, it was horrible.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> Sorry but I just can't believe this if the 12 turkeys (4 tombs and the rest hens) and 2 groups I seen while hunting this past April


Self edited. I decided to be nice today...

One eye, the next time you go turkey hunting... :roll:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > Turkey numbers in Sevier County are at/above population objectives,
> ...


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

I will admit the opener of the central where I was, kind of reminded me of the opener of the rifle deer hunt. Lots of people driving around trying to kill something. The weird thing was it was on a Monday...


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I don't mind a tough hunt, but I like knowing what I'm hunting is actually there. Plus there is no turkeys on public land around here and the few places they are they are on private land where the people are buttheads and won't let you set foot on their land because they feel the turkeys are theirs'.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

A good friend of mine had a Southern region-wide tag this year and hunted near Koosharem, he tagged out in less than an hour and said he had to wait for the toms to spread out so he would only kill one bird. This year the turkeys were up high on most units, Monroe included. I can assure you that if you were to go looking up high for deer/elk right now on the Monroe finding turkeys would be rather simple. I saw a pile of them last week when down scouting, more than the total you say you saw on your whole hunt. Point is, they are there but they can be hard to find.

As for DAHB, that's what you get for ignore my advice and hunting were every other DAHB was at. I saw a few turkeys and ONE other hunter on the opener, and I was in the same county! Location, location, location!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Sorry but I just can't believe this if the 12 turkeys (4 tombs and the rest hens) and 2 groups I seen while hunting this past April was over what they wanted well I can see I shouldn't get my hopes up for a good turkey herd around the Sevier valley. If you do know a little about it from the inside pro though, are they still going to limit tags for certain areas? Is the Monroe region one of those areas?
> 
> Like I said I did, and was completely sick with the quality of the hunt, it was horrible.


Don't give that quality of hunt crap...by your own words you saw 4, count'em 4 Toms...how many do you need? If you can't have a good time with 4 toms to chose from, you need to make some changes in the way you hunt and think. Next time you see four Toms, just pick one out and start to hunt or I guess you could head on down to the nearest Smiths and pick one out from the freezer...with that many turkeys on hand, you're sure to have a "quality hunt".


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> Don't give that quality of hunt crap...by your own words you saw 4, count'em 4 Toms...how many do you need? If you can't have a good time with 4 toms to chose from, you need to make some changes in the way you hunt and think. Next time you see four Toms, just pick one out and start to hunt or I guess you could head on down to the nearest Smiths and pick one out from the freezer...with that many turkeys on hand, you're sure to have a "quality hunt".


I would have been glad to go after them, but I respect private property thats posted and after asking permission they won't let you hunt on their land because they also feel there are not enough turkeys around our area. THERE ARE NO TURKEY'S ON PUBLIC LAND around my area and the few places there on private you would have to break the law to get one. I try to respect property owners not piss them off.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> THERE ARE NO TURKEY'S ON PUBLIC LAND


COUGHCOUGHCOUGHBULL****COUGHCOUGHCOUGH

Tell you what one eye, this next season I'll buy a tag in YOUR area. If I come down there and kill a turkey in lets say... 5 days, YOU pay for my entire hunt. Tag, food, gas, hotel, shells, taxidermy, everything. (I'll keep all the receipts.)
I'll hunt public land and will not ask any farmers permission. If I don't kill a bird, I'll GIVE you my shot gun. (Benelli M1 super 90 12 ga. 3" mag with custom camo.)

Sound like a deal?

Or are you a coughcoughcoughpussycoughcoughcoughcough.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Pro, yes I know there are turkey's on Koosharems side, I know there are turkeys up Greenwhich Canyon on public land, yes I know there are turkeys on the other side of the mountain where I didn't hunt, didn't want to go to hunt, and didn't have enough time to go over the mountain to hunt. If you were scouting on Cove a week ago, where abouts were you because I'm up there often and I haven't seen any I rarely scout or touch anything on the back side or east side of Cove, Signal peeks as far as I go south, Thompsan Basin is as far as I go west, and Davis Hollow is as far as I go east. TEX-O-BOB I'll answer to you later on when I have more time.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Careful there Tex, that's a pretty bold bet. Sometimes them **** old turkeys don't alway cooperate the way you want. One year( 4 years ago) down there in the central area it took me 3 days ta find one, and three days to get 'im and I know I am a lot better turkey hunter than you! :lol:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm just going to through my vote in here,,,,,,,And I DON'T like the new plan....


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

i havent gotten into turkey hunting yet but I do have a concern about opening up the hunt to OTC. for all the times I spend in the mountains hunting grouse, i have only seen one turkey in utah on public land in many years. i see them here by my house very regularly but that is on private farmland.

I havent followed the biology and numbers of turkey populations but I do hope the dwr's decision is based on biology and not monetary reasons. I would hope that the success of the turkey would eventually go to an OTC system but I hope they arent jumping the gun because of the current financial situation the state gov't is in.

i do have one question to the more knowledgeable turkey people on here. as they were discussing the turkey situation at the RAC, the thought of private and public land came to mind. My question is how many of the turkeys are planted on public as opposed to private land here in utah?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> TEX-O-BOB I'll answer to you later on when I have more time.


A simple Yes or No will do... :roll:


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Don't worry you'll get more than a simple yes or no, but I'm trying to not think about what you said before so I don't post anything that sounds to much like a smart ass.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Sprig Kennels said:


> I havent followed the biology and numbers of turkey populations but I do hope the dwr's decision is based on biology and not monetary reasons. I would hope that the success of the turkey would eventually go to an OTC system but I hope they arent jumping the gun because of the current financial situation the state gov't is in. Every turkey I helped release was released on public land. The NWTF has been trying to get late season OTC tags for several years. I think the DWR could/should of gone with OTC tags 1-2 years ago, but they were being extra cautious.
> 
> i do have one question to the more knowledgeable turkey people on here. as they were discussing the turkey situation at the RAC, the thought of private and public land came to mind. My question is how many of the turkeys are planted on public as opposed to private land here in utah?


These turkeys were on public land last week at around 9000'.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Holy crap! Pro posted a picture! :mrgreen:


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Holy crap! Pro posted a picture!


 :lol: I wasn't sure if I'd ever seen one, either.

"DWR making a mistake with turkey tags?"- I'd say just get rid of the early season hunts and make it an OTC hunt in May. I hunted the Northern late hunt which I believe has had 100% odds for a few years anyway. I'll admit to turning around and going home on the opener. It really was just as bad as the deer hunt. I let a few weeks go by and hunted the last week of the season without seeing a single other hunter. I saw enough turkeys to have bagged one, but I couldn't get the birds to close the gap on at least a couple of occasions when I thought it was a done deal.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Holy crap! Pro posted a picture! :mrgreen:


It's of a turkey, not an animal. :shock: :wink:


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

One-I, one of the reasons you're catching so much crap is that talk of "quality of hunt" and similar statements is the kind of talk that leads to stuff like LE hunts and the such and most of us turkey hunters are absolutely apposed to anything like that. We do not want to get into rules and regulations that make an attempt to satisfy some people's or small group of people's dreams of an easy hunt, or a "trophy turkey" hunt or a Governor's tags, or special hunts for special weapons, etc, etc, etc. If the biology supports it...and most of us think it does, just open up the state for a normal, good old fashioned hunt. I want to see the turkey regulations about two paragraphs long. The quality of hunt is up to you, the state can't magically legislate such things for heck sakes!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I guarantee if the state could sell governors tags for thousands of dollars and Doyal Moss could make a pocket full of money guiding them you'd NEVER see over the counter tags. It's just a good thing there's no a big call for trophy turkeys. I can see it now... The Spider GOBBLER! Was he raised and planted or did Utah _really_ grow a tom with a 16 inch beard and 2 inch spurs! The controversy continues. :twisted:

Money corrupts everything.


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## birdman (Nov 21, 2007)

I've said it before, I would like the tags to be otc from opening day until it closes except for a 3-5 day youth hunt at the beginning. No more of this limited entry crap for me thanks. To me it's more about the opportunity to hunt rather than getting lucky in some limited entry draw. And what difference does public or private make when you can buy a statewide otc tag and go where ever you want (or have access to), whenever you want. Sure there are going to be a lot more people on the public land but that's life. If you want to hunt private land then find someone who will let you but don't complain to me if you don't. I will say that when you kill a public land bird deep into the season you know you have worked hard and the gratification can be immense. I especially enjoy all the sorry road hunters that stop to look at the tom when I've slogged miles to get back to my trunk. It's always fun to tell them how far away you killed the bird and the look on their faces that says there's no chance they will ever venture that deep into the woods.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

birdman said:


> I've said it before, I would like the tags to be otc from opening day until it closes except for a 3-5 day youth hunt at the beginning.  No more of this limited entry crap for me thanks. To me it's more about the opportunity to hunt rather than getting lucky in some limited entry draw. And what difference does public or private make when you can buy a statewide otc tag and go where ever you want (or have access to), whenever you want. Sure there are going to be a lot more people on the public land but that's life. If you want to hunt private land then find someone who will let you but don't complain to me if you don't.  I will say that when you kill a public land bird deep into the season you know you have worked hard and the gratification can be immense.  I especially enjoy all the sorry road hunters that stop to look at the tom when I've slogged miles to get back to my trunk. It's always fun to tell them how far away you killed the bird and the look on their faces that says there's no chance they will ever venture that deep into the woods.


Yup, Yup and double Yup! Just you and a bird, matchin wits!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Kay, TEX deciding just to give you the short answer instead of a rambling one. NO.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

I believe tex said "Or are you a coughcoughcoughpussycoughcoughcoughcough." :lol:


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> I believe tex said "Or are you a coughcoughcoughpussycoughcoughcoughcough." :lol:


And to that I figure I'll try to say "nice" things instead of "childish" things like TEX, I'm changing my smartass ways fixed just you watch and see.

Now for this:

coughcoughcoughcoughdon'tgivea****whatyouthinkTEXcoughcoughcoughcoughcough
coughcoughcoughcoughI'velivedandhuntedintheareaI'mspeakingofmywholelifeyoudon'tknowmoreabouttheareathanmecough
coughcoughcough


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> [quote="fixed blade":2ot9iddq]I believe tex said "Or are you a coughcoughcoughpussycoughcoughcoughcough." :lol:


And to that I figure I'll try to say "nice" things instead of "childish" things like TEX, I'm changing my smartass ways fixed just you watch and see.

Now for this:

coughcoughcoughcoughdon'tgivea****whatyouthinkTEXcoughcoughcoughcoughcough
coughcoughcoughcoughI'velivedandhuntedintheareaI'mspeakingofmywholelifeyoudon'tknowmoreabouttheareathanmecough
coughcoughcough[/quote:2ot9iddq]
:lol: See this is what I'm talking about. I'll bring the beer you bring the camp fire. :mrgreen:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

One eye, you're way to serious and mature for me dude. :roll: It was just a fun bet.  You know like guys do when they get together and have fun... Relax man. I respect that you have lived there your whole life and probably know every rock and every tree, but to say there are NO turkeys on public ground in the whole area is just asinine. May be I should have read through your juvenile embellishments... My bad.

Tell you what, I'll stop calling you out if you'll stop whining about stupid things. Fair enough? :wink:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Goofy- You just do not like the over-the-counter tags because now you have to deal with more people trying to trespass on your place. Is that why you guys are growing a wall of thistles, to try to keep people out? One thing is for sure, it will provide lots of food for the birds.


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

I see no problems, just adjustments. In later seasons, sit and call you will lose most rounds with the TOMs. They will actually gobble to locate you; and then they will walk right around you in the late season when you try to cluck back. Even in the middle season......

Actually, once educated, they are hunting and calling to YOU. Heck, my buddy did call one in and his boy killed it; but they had to waive off two guys in the process during the middle season!:evil:

Just leave the calls and decoys at home. I go silent in the middle and late season and listen for the hunters. Then I hit the woods runnin and gunnin; no sitting. Or consider using dogs to track em down.

[attachment=0:ge03mivy]Lance_4-25-09_compressed.jpg[/attachment:ge03mivy]


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree one eye, there are NO turkeys on public land in Sevier County! Matter of fact, we have no deer, elk, pheasants, chukar, quail, or any other huntable game on public land. Gas prices are high so I'm just trying to help you guys, no need to come here and waist your time. Southern Sanpete is also game free, stay north if you want to hunt with a chance of success. 

Oh we have lots of lions though, lion hunters come and clean'em up! Save your money, no turkeys here!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

We'll I hate to admit this, but today I seen 4 turkeys (3 hens and a jake) up bow hunting on public land where I was bowhunting deer.


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