# First time lab owner looking for advice



## rockymountainelk

Ok so i have a deposite in on a lab pup that will be ready at christmas (for the kids). I have had dogs as a kid and been around hunting dogs all my life but never owned my own as an adult. I have been waiting until i had the time and means to properly take care of one before buying. Just moved into the new house with over an acre of land and no that i have made some work changes i will have all kinds of time to do it right. So..... 

My first question is what books/websites have you guys used that you think would be helpful in training a lab. I will be using him 50/50 for waterfowl and upland. 

What is the best (quality/price) e collar out there and what type do you recommend.

What are you guys feeding your labs? All of the dogs i ever owned were fed table scraps and thats it but i will not be doing that this go around. I have heard of guys feeding thier labs raw chicken????

This will be an outside only dog. Has anyone ever used a straw-bale house for winter (i have free straw access) is this acceptable for a young pup? any pros/cons?

What are the must have training tools/toys i will need?

Any other tips that you may have as well??

Thanks RME


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## Steve Shaver

rockymountainelk said:


> Ok so i have a deposite in on a lab pup that will be ready at christmas (for the kids). I have had dogs as a kid and been around hunting dogs all my life but never owned my own as an adult. I have been waiting until i had the time and means to properly take care of one before buying. Just moved into the new house with over an acre of land and no that i have made some work changes i will have all kinds of time to do it right. So.....
> 
> My first question is what books/websites have you guys used that you think would be helpful in training a lab. I will be using him 50/50 for waterfowl and upland.
> 
> What is the best (quality/price) e collar out there and what type do you recommend.
> 
> What are you guys feeding your labs? All of the dogs i ever owned were fed table scraps and thats it but i will not be doing that this go around. I have heard of guys feeding thier labs raw chicken????
> 
> This will be an outside only dog. Has anyone ever used a straw-bale house for winter (i have free straw access) is this acceptable for a young pup? any pros/cons?
> 
> What are the must have training tools/toys i will need?
> 
> Any other tips that you may have as well??
> 
> Thanks RME


Lots of questions and lots of answers.
I typed a long detailed answer for you and lost it. Easier to explain than type a response. You are welcome to call me if you like. I train professionally but my advice is free. Also if your willing to make a trip to Cache Valley I can show you a lot of what is needed now and in the future Have dogs here at all different levels of training so you can see what they are capable of.

Steve Shaver
435 640 2543
www.mooseheadretrievers.com


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## Spry Yellowdog

My best advise is to accept Steve on his kind offer. You will for sure then be started off right.

Spry


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## Wasatch

My wife is very involved in the nutritional aspects of pet food, and can help you a great deal with what best to feed your new lab. From what I've learned from her, it is critical you start off on the right food to ensure a long, healthy life. Feel free to call her, Trisha, at 801-550-9563


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## Steve Shaver

My main concern here is keeping a brand new pup outside in the middle of winter. I would at the very least keep him crated in the garage or basement but if you want him outside at least invest in a good dog house. Hands down best dog house on the market is the dog den by K9 Kondo. It runs about $265 but will last forever and is insulated. Also for a new pup I would put a heater in it. For around $100 the hound heater works great.


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## rlpenn

Go see Steve.

Website: start with The Retriever Training Forum (http://www.retrievertraining.net)

Housing: I don't know what a straw bale house is. I recommend the k-9 condo, fill it with hay to keep your dog warm in the winter. Pricy but they love it. You should keep your baby pup in the house for the first few months, especially if you get him in winter. You can keep him in a crate in the house. You need to socialize him, potty train him, and make him a family member. He should have a large kennel run (put the dog house in there) that he stays in when you are not working him. You will need to figure out how to keep the water thawed in winter.

Training: I recommend you start with Bill Hillman's Training a Retriever Puppy. Come out to the retriever club events---Weber River and the Wasatch Hunting Retriever Club. We start in January.

Food: Sporting dog foods that are 30 percent protein, 20 percent fat, is the standard. You can find Purina Pro Plan 30/20 at Petco type places, Eukanuba makes a good 30/20 as well. There are many other choices.


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## Fowlmouth

Don't get in a hurry to purchase the e collar. You won't need it for quite some time. Let the puppy be a puppy, then worry about a collar after basic obedience training is finished and you start getting in to more advanced training like force fetch.


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## Damiani

I've always followed Wolters "Game Dog" book and had great success. Of course this book is very dated and there might be better material out there today. I found Wolters methods to be a no non-sense guide to follow but I also picked up tips here and there if problems did arise. As far as collars go I've owned Dogtra & Sport Dog, I prefer Dogtra collars but both will work for your needs. 
Good luck with your pup


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## Packfish

all very good info given-
1. Had a Dogtra collar- loved it but needed a dual system so I "paid in forward" to someone that was starting. But like said- let the pup be a pup for quite awhile.

2. Pup needs to stay inside for awhile- I built double walled dog houses - with pop off tops and put on casters so they can be rolled around on the concrete kennel floor when cleaning. Took the plans/idea from the old OutDoor Life article called "Doggie Mansion" and modified. Dogs are toasty warm when I get home from work. 

3, Have fun with that pup- when all that comes together with man and dog- pretty **** sweet thing.

4. IF you want Wolters "Game Dog" book I have it somewhere I can send it to you if you would like.


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## drakebob01

Go see STEVE!!!!!!!!! He did wonders with my dog Harley! She was scared of ducks,water,guns,her own shadow! She has since become a ducks worst nightmare!!!!


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## Packfish

Damiani said:


> I've always followed Wolters "Game Dog" book and had great success. Of course this book is very dated and there might be better material out there today. I found Wolters methods to be a no non-sense guide to follow but I also picked up tips here and there if problems did arise. As far as collars go I've owned Dogtra & Sport Dog, I prefer Dogtra collars but both will work for your needs.
> Good luck with your pup


THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE BEAUTIFUL LAB

HERE IS ANOTHER ONE THATS MY FAVORITE


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## Gumbo

http://www.gundogsupply.com/evan-graham-smartwork-smartfetch.html


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## Perry01

I think you chose well in getting a Labrador, they are great family and sporting dogs. We've owned two yellows and a black lab. What color did you choose?

Here is our 9 year old girl.


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## Steve Shaver

Gumbo said:


> http://www.gundogsupply.com/evan-graham-smartwork-smartfetch.html


 The problem with Evans stuff is that he has sooo many dvd's that you don't need. One for this drill and one for that drill and drill this and drill that. To me he's a salesman and a marketer. Not that most of his stuff isn't good but a lot can be condensed and many inexperienced people get hooked into buying the next dvd. Two or even 3 of his drills can be combined into one. Some you don't need all together. The people that get hooked the most are guys that are serious about training a dog for hunt tests. That doesn't mean that a guy that just wants a gun dog doesn't need a good solid training program. Gun dog, hunt test dog, or field trial dog, basics are all the same. It's just a matter of how far you want to go with it. From what I have seen on public hunting grounds most don't bother to train nearly enough. A serious hunter needs to be just as serious in training his dog.


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## Greenhead_Slayer

Go see Steve, he is top notch. He really transformed my pup and has my old mans up there currently.

After you see Steve, buy Chris Akin duck dog basics and follow it. It will go over the right kind of check cords, leashes, collars, etc. 

I'd focus on basic obedience and getting that mastered before you worry much about the upland training. If you take a young lab out on a pheasant hunt and expect it to listen to you without any formal training you'll have a pretty miserable hunt screaming and chasing after the pup. Focus on the basic obedience and once that is mastered you can go chase upland. So much of upland is instinctive for a lab your time will be best spent focusing on the obedience portion IMO.


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## Steve Shaver

Greenhead_Slayer said:


> Go see Steve, he is top notch. He really transformed my pup and has my old mans up there currently.
> 
> After you see Steve, buy Chris Akin duck dog basics and follow it. It will go over the right kind of check cords, leashes, collars, etc.
> 
> I'd focus on basic obedience and getting that mastered before you worry much about the upland training. If you take a young lab out on a pheasant hunt and expect it to listen to you without any formal training you'll have a pretty miserable hunt screaming and chasing after the pup. Focus on the basic obedience and once that is mastered you can go chase upland. So much of upland is instinctive for a lab your time will be best spent focusing on the obedience portion IMO.


 Your dads pup is doing really well, nice little dog! Your dad says he wants her to be better than your dog so he can brag about it so I'm thinkin you better bring Benelli to me for some advance education;-)


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## hossblur

First, no offense to the pros, but START with bloodline. The best pro in the world can't make up for good genetics. MY first lab was a "backyard" lab. I got lucky and didn't get genetic problems(did blow a knee on him at 4 yrs, hunted to 12, my fault not his), and I would have put him up against any "pro" dog anyday. He didn't really desire to be a pet, he flat out lived to hunt and hated being inside. Second lab I got to pay for the luck of the first, he was dumb, lazy, obnoxious, etc, and seriously made me consider not having labs. I now have 2yr old Sierra. She came out of Corrine(Sprigs Kennels), she has a good bloodline, good genetics, and came out of the gate much more advanced. I got her in Dec, she stayed inside until she was as tall as the snow. She lives in a igloo filled with straw. I used Akins videos as a help. I know the pros may disagree, but I aint field trialing, nor do I hunt on a "proper" club. I believe that the more that pup is with you, the better it will be. Sierra was born in Dec, she hunted the opener the next year. I expected bad days, she had one. They need to be in the truck, in the mud, in the water, out in the cold, around your kids. There is ZERO replacement for experience. You have to have patience doing this. They are going to break, going to miss, going to make mistakes. They will eventually though, start to give you the "look" when you miss, or make mistakes. I personally believe that nutrition is overated. There are plenty of mid grade foods that are very good, I believe most top rated foods are geared to the owner, not the dog.


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## rockymountainelk

Thanks for the info so far, Steve i will be taking you up on your offer to come see your place and get come advice, can i come up after i get my pup and do a little socializing with him?

I Have a deposit on a black lab from (Del Rio Retrievers) www.delrioretrievers.com anyone heard of them? I feel like i am getting a good deal at $500 for a AKC Registered pup with decent bloodlines with OFA Certifiable Hips at two years and CERF certifiable eyes at two years. Am i getting a good deal in your opinion?


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## Steve Shaver

rockymountainelk said:


> Thanks for the info so far, Steve i will be taking you up on your offer to come see your place and get come advice, can i come up after i get my pup and do a little socializing with him?
> 
> I Have a deposit on a black lab from (Del Rio Retrievers) www.delrioretrievers.com anyone heard of them? I feel like i am getting a good deal at $500 for a AKC Registered pup with decent bloodlines with OFA Certifiable Hips at two years and CERF certifiable eyes at two years. Am i getting a good deal in your opinion?


 Looks like a pretty nice pup for the price. Top side of the sires pedigree is all show dogs but the bottom has a pretty good mix of field and the bitches pedigree is pretty darn nice. Mom and dad are both nice looking dogs. I think this pup should do well for you. You are welcome to come for a visit anytime.


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## Steve Shaver

hossblur said:


> First, no offense to the pros, but START with bloodline. The best pro in the world can't make up for good genetics. MY first lab was a "backyard" lab. I got lucky and didn't get genetic problems(did blow a knee on him at 4 yrs, hunted to 12, my fault not his), and I would have put him up against any "pro" dog anyday. He didn't really desire to be a pet, he flat out lived to hunt and hated being inside. Second lab I got to pay for the luck of the first, he was dumb, lazy, obnoxious, etc, and seriously made me consider not having labs. I now have 2yr old Sierra. She came out of Corrine(Sprigs Kennels), she has a good bloodline, good genetics, and came out of the gate much more advanced. I got her in Dec, she stayed inside until she was as tall as the snow. She lives in a igloo filled with straw. I used Akins videos as a help. I know the pros may disagree, but I aint field trialing, nor do I hunt on a "proper" club. I believe that the more that pup is with you, the better it will be. Sierra was born in Dec, she hunted the opener the next year. I expected bad days, she had one. They need to be in the truck, in the mud, in the water, out in the cold, around your kids. There is ZERO replacement for experience. You have to have patience doing this. They are going to break, going to miss, going to make mistakes. They will eventually though, start to give you the "look" when you miss, or make mistakes. I personally believe that nutrition is overated. There are plenty of mid grade foods that are very good, I believe most top rated foods are geared to the owner, not the dog.


 I pretty much agree with your whole post with a couple exceptions, mostly the pro part. Cant believe any pro would argue the genetics part. Cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Wont disagree that the more the pup is with you the better it will be. Whether the dog runs field trials or hunts a proper club has nothing to do with it either, it is all the same to the dog. Building a bond and personal relationship is a huge part of what I do with client dogs. Now knowledge and experience of dealing with many dogs is where a pro has an advantage over most people.
Now the dog food part I think I agree but depends on your definition of top level or mid grade foods. Yes many people get sucked up advertising geared more towards them than their dog but a good working dog needs a quality food. A dog that is out in the marsh and freezing cold and in the water needs a good food. They burn lots of calories and need a good food for their stamina and energy. I feed Proplan Sport formula with 30% protein and 20% fat. My dogs work hard every day. Proplan is about $40 a bag at petsmart and well worth. some of the mid range foods (Black Gold for example) are almost as much but are junk.


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## hossblur

Steve, I wasnt taking a shot at ya, hope you didn't take it that way. I used to work with Springers for field trialing, and I realize that what they do and what labs do are different, but my point was simply that you want the lab to live your life. Some of what a field trial dog does wastes energy if a solely hunting dog does it. I truly don't care how pretty a retrieve is, as long as I don't have to go retrieve. My point on trainers you said better. Why hire a pro, and take him a $100 dog, a sows ear made the point better. I guarantee you have forgot more about dogs than I will know. My point to the man was simple, get what you need. If you need a dog to hang at the house, play with the kids, and hunt a couple weekends, get that dog. If you field trial, you need that bloodline. If you hunt upland game mostly, that 100lb lab might not be the one you want, big dogs will tire more easily. I personally have gone to a female because I got dang tired of the testosterone. I also prefer "smaller" labs, my preference. I think you hit on what I meant in foods, price doesn't always mean quality. Black lab puppies are the cutest though, hard to not be suckered in by those puppy eyes and black fur


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## Steve Shaver

hossblur said:


> Steve, I wasnt taking a shot at ya, hope you didn't take it that way. I used to work with Springers for field trialing, and I realize that what they do and what labs do are different, but my point was simply that you want the lab to live your life. Some of what a field trial dog does wastes energy if a solely hunting dog does it. I truly don't care how pretty a retrieve is, as long as I don't have to go retrieve. My point on trainers you said better. Why hire a pro, and take him a $100 dog, a sows ear made the point better. I guarantee you have forgot more about dogs than I will know. My point to the man was simple, get what you need. If you need a dog to hang at the house, play with the kids, and hunt a couple weekends, get that dog. If you field trial, you need that bloodline. If you hunt upland game mostly, that 100lb lab might not be the one you want, big dogs will tire more easily. I personally have gone to a female because I got dang tired of the testosterone. I also prefer "smaller" labs, my preference. I think you hit on what I meant in foods, price doesn't always mean quality. Black lab puppies are the cutest though, hard to not be suckered in by those puppy eyes and black fur


 Oh no I didn't take it that way in fact I agree with what you said just with a little subtle difference.


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## Utmuddguy

As far as a training program they all will show you the basics. The local retriever clubs have members that get together to train on a regular basis. I agree with what hoss said other than field trials and wasted energy. Most hunting dogs see a bird go down and go get it that's a good hunting dog to most hunters but can the handlers send the dog 200 yards beyond the decoys for a cripple that glided down? That level of control only comes from a big commitment from the owner. I work my dog an hour a day 7 days a week because I want my dog to fully reach his potential. If I didn't have the ability to commit the time I would send him to a pro.


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