# Hunter orange



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

So, I have a question, what does this law/rule mean exactly?


> Requirement to wear hunter orange
> Utah Code §§ 23-20-31 and 23-20-31
> If you're hunting in an area where a centerfire rifle hunt is occurring, you must wear a minimum of 400 square inches of hunter orange material on your head, chest and back.


I have always just assumed that this meant that I must have orange on my head and my back and my chest. Not that it matters to me, as I am pretty big on safety and always have orange sleeves too, but not certain. Another interpretation could be that I have 400 square inches on my chest, so that is all that I need. It does not say that you must have x inches on head, x inches on chest and y inches on back, so it left me wondering as I see some folks not wear any on their head. My original understanding is that you must have some on each of those three areas totaling 400 sq, meaning that what is on your sleeves, pants and undies does not count. Again, not to split hairs as I will take the more cautious road every time, just curious.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

I have always understood it as meaning you must have it on your head, chest and back.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

The word _and_ does not leave a choice between head or chest or back. Orange is required on the head and chest and back, per the conjunction _and_, which is the part of speech used to JOIN words, phrases, or clauses.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

All parts need 400 sq inches... so everyone needs to wear one of those huge foam cowboy hats in orange when out hunting :mrgreen:


-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

In years past It means rifle shooters will shoot at anything that moves so you better not risk anything except full body orange. Thank goodness archers and muzzy guys don't have the same mental capabilities and don't have to wear the stuff.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That concurs with what my understanding was also. So, to be in compliance, I guess you would just need to have an orange string in your hair, orange string on your back and 400" on your chest. Again, I want everyone to know where I am, but I guess some folks just don't like messing up their mullet and don't wear a hat. :mrgreen:


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> That concurs with what my understanding was also. So, to be in compliance, I guess you would just need to have an orange string in your hair, orange string on your back and 400" on your chest. Again, I want everyone to know where I am, but I guess some folks just don't like messing up their mullet and don't wear a hat. :mrgreen:


My mullet is blaze orange!!!!
Or as I prefer to call it; my Canadian Passport or my Missouri Compromise...


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## Rspeters (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm fairly new to utah, but I don't necessarily read that as it being a requirement to have orange on your head. I just read it as you have to have a total of 400 square inches between those three areas. I get the whole "and" vs "or" thing here, but even that can be interpreted a few ways in this case. For example, orange on your leg wouldn't count towards the 400 sq inches, but orange from the head, chest, and back do count.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

It was in the 20's on the mountain the last 3 days, rest assured my head was covered by a blaze orange knit beanie. As for the rest of my body, if I'm sitting on an open ridge in the sun I may dress down a bit, but once I am back in the woods I will either have on an orange vest or my orange and black Gore-Tex shell depending on weather. I have never seen more idiots than in the woods of Utah, so required or not I am going to wear it.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

About 90% of the hunters I saw on the elk hunt did not have any orange on their head. I see several of the pics shared on here with about the same percentage not meeting the requirement either. Not that I really care, it is more for their own protection than anything. I wonder if they would really cite anyone for it. Be smart people, as crazy as things get out there especially on days like today, get the orange on already!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Rspeters said:


> I'm fairly new to utah, but I don't necessarily read that as it being a requirement to have orange on your head. I just read it as you have to have a total of 400 square inches between those three areas. I get the whole "and" vs "or" thing here, but even that can be interpreted a few ways in this case. For example, orange on your leg wouldn't count towards the 400 sq inches, but orange from the head, chest, and back do count.


Not to get all geeky on you, but in statutory and rule interpretation, full force and meaning is given to every word. "Must" and "and" mean exactly what they mean. You must wear 400 square inches of orange, and it must be on you head, chest, and back. I think if someone tried to challenge a citation for this on the basis of vagueness, they would lose.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

400 square inches is 20x20. Or 10x40. Or 5x80. You could go on and on with all the factors of 400. My point is, how many of you have a head big enough to accommodate a piece of orange fabric that is 20x20 inches, without it being a cowboy hat? Not many of us! With that being said, I think the real idea behind it is to wear enough orange that you're easily visible to other hunters. If you are wearing a vest with a swath of 20x20 orange fabric that's visible from the front, back and sides, I doubt any CO would ever give you any guff, even if there wasn't any orange on your head. Now, if that CO is an anal retentive jerk, you may not get off so easy.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I still think you need to wear one of these:












-DallanC


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## Nalgi (Apr 16, 2010)

Nice try at starting a debate. Think about it. Do you want to be shot in the head? Wear orange on it. Do you want to be shot in the back, wear orange on it, do you want to be shot in the chest, wear orange on it. pretty simple.

Where I ran into a bummer situation was about 15-20 years ago there was a cow elk depredation hunt during the archery deer season. So, according to the regs we archers had to wear the prescribed 400si of hunter orange.... wasn't a good hunt. Not so much because of the Orange but because guns were going off all around while Im trying to be Nimrod!!! I went through the check point in St G and asked the warden who the loser was that thought that one up? His only response was NOT ME:!:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Just to note, the orange requirement only applies to hunters. LOTS of non hunting folk are still in the hills hiking, enjoying nature, taking family pictures etc. Orange or lack of orange is no substitute for not being 100% certain of your target and backstop BEFORE you pull the trigger (and imo, before you even shoulder your weapon).

Watched a guy last night in full camo with a backpack walk right across a hillside we were glassing deer on. 800 yards further down I could hear a family with kids out taking a evening hike.

-DallanC


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I have an upcoming LE elk hunt and the discussion yesterday (our meeting) was partially about hunter orange. I told the guys that I was the only one that legally had to wear the stuff, but they all agreed for safety sake they best wear it too. 

You can go on the web and look at Youtube video after Youtube video of guides with clients wearing the stuff, and all the while the guides are in camo.

I'd just as well be a little safer and wear the stuff than be one of the stats and on the news at 10 report.

With my particular late hunt, there are only 14 people with permits on a HUGE unit and you would think it would be ok to not have to wear it, but since it's an any weapon hunt we have to wear it. That's ok, you will see me in pictures later on and those taken out in the field will show me with hunter orange on and the ones back at camp or where ever, will show me in my leathers! Gotta love it!

Be safe everyone! It sure isn't worth a ticket or a bullet not to follow the law!


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## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

my best buddy (from here in UT) was shot last NOV in Colorado in the arm by a hunter that was not minding what was beyond his target. My buddy was in full orange jacket and hat on their way to private hunting ground, crossing state land on a very wide county road. He is lucky to have his arm and luckier to be alive, a few inches the other direction and this wouldn't be a story I could tell without a lot of pain. The shooter did not come forward and obviously the intent was to get my buddy to the hospital as fast as possible. Rest assured, that shooter saw ORANGE in his/her scope when the trigger was pulled. They were on a high point, deer running below them - shot straight down a road!!!

ALWAYS know your target and what is beyond your target, never shoot down or across a road (illegal mind you), and wear your orange for all the idiots out there! I hunted on a large parcel of private here in UT yesterday and while not as worried about it there, it's still a rifle hunt and I want to be seen. I may look like another pumpkin out there, but I'd rather not be shot or even shot at! I do make fun of guys that wear 100% full orange, but perhaps they take this principal to another level!

Be safe - know your target and what is beyond it, ahead of it, etc.


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## Firehawk (Sep 30, 2007)

BUL_KRZY said:


> my best buddy (from here in UT) was shot last NOV in Colorado in the arm by a hunter that was not minding what was beyond his target. My buddy was in full orange jacket and hat on their way to private hunting ground, crossing state land on a very wide county road. He is lucky to have his arm and luckier to be alive, a few inches the other direction and this wouldn't be a story I could tell without a lot of pain. The shooter did not come forward and obviously the intent was to get my buddy to the hospital as fast as possible. Rest assured, that shooter saw ORANGE in his/her scope when the trigger was pulled. They were on a high point, deer running below them - shot straight down a road!!!
> 
> ALWAYS know your target and what is beyond your target, never shoot down or across a road (illegal mind you), and wear your orange for all the idiots out there! I hunted on a large parcel of private here in UT yesterday and while not as worried about it there, it's still a rifle hunt and I want to be seen. I may look like another pumpkin out there, but I'd rather not be shot or even shot at! I do make fun of guys that wear 100% full orange, but perhaps they take this principal to another level!
> 
> Be safe - know your target and what is beyond it, ahead of it, etc.


Bull Krazy,

How is your buddy? Pretty sure you are talking about a young man that I know. He was quite the ball player years ago. Anyway, his parents live close to mine and I was asking about him today and they hadn't heard how he is doing.

Thanks FH


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

So, does that mean guides and people along for the hike do NOT have to wear the Orange? If you are helping someone during a centerfire hunt do you not have to wear the Orange?

I've seen that on TV but am curious what the law is in real life. I would prefer to wear the Orange for safety reasons, but am curious what the Utah law actually states.


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## BUL_KRZY (Oct 17, 2008)

Firehawk said:


> Bull Krazy,
> 
> How is your buddy? Pretty sure you are talking about a young man that I know. He was quite the ball player years ago. Anyway, his parents live close to mine and I was asking about him today and they hadn't heard how he is doing.
> 
> Thanks FH


FH -

He is doing quite good and has solid use of his arm/hand. The docs at the U are incredible! He's still healing up a bit, but is back to normal activities for the most part. He has been speaking a bit here and there about his ordeal. Powerful stuff. If you saw the pictures of his arm in the operating room you'd understand the miracles that took place! Simply amazing. His attitude about it all is inspiring to many.

Paul


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

KineKilla said:


> So, does that mean guides and people along for the hike do NOT have to wear the Orange? If you are helping someone during a centerfire hunt do you not have to wear the Orange?
> 
> I've seen that on TV but am curious what the law is in real life. I would prefer to wear the Orange for safety reasons, but am curious what the Utah law actually states.


That is correct, only the licensed hunter must meet the orange requirement. However. The laws of common sense would dictate otherwise as Bears Butt explained.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Huge29 said:


> That is correct, only the licensed hunter must meet the orange requirement. However. The laws of common sense would dictate otherwise as Bears Butt explained.


But we live in a state where common sense is uncommonly found. My wife and I like to hike the hills above Bountiful when we can and will wear at least one orange clothing item when we go up for safety's sake, even though most "hunters" are too lazy to hike into the same areas.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

one can swaddle themselves in all the HO created, and one word shatters this discussion all to h*ll, ricochet.


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## Firehawk (Sep 30, 2007)

BUL_KRZY said:


> FH -
> 
> He is doing quite good and has solid use of his arm/hand. The docs at the U are incredible! He's still healing up a bit, but is back to normal activities for the most part. He has been speaking a bit here and there about his ordeal. Powerful stuff. If you saw the pictures of his arm in the operating room you'd understand the miracles that took place! Simply amazing. His attitude about it all is inspiring to many.
> 
> Paul


Thanks Paul!

Tell him hi from his ball playing neighbors in bountiful. So glad he is doing okay. His mom brought me up to speed first of the year and hadn't heard anything new. Thanks!

John


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> That is correct, only the licensed hunter must meet the orange requirement..


Yep, Guided 100's of hunts in Utah,
NEVER, and I mean never once wore more than an orange hat .....

Utahs requirements for hunrt orange sucks, except ONE thing,
You can use camo orange!!!!! thats cool......


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

One other thing on this subject you all should know,

According too , and confirmed by the DWR.
Once the hunter pulls the trigger, and the animal is harvested and tagged,
The hunt is 'concidered' over. The person harvesting the animal is NO LONGER
required to ware orange by law.........Even in the field, recovering game......
...............JFYI...............


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> One other thing on this subject you all should know,
> 
> According too , and confirmed by the DWR.
> Once the hunter pulls the trigger, and the animal is harvested and tagged,
> ...


Again....common sense would tell you that that is the most important time to have orange. Just try packing that out, be sure to keep the antlers way high, and then count your bullet wounds.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> One other thing on this subject you all should know,
> 
> According too , and confirmed by the DWR.
> Once the hunter pulls the trigger, and the animal is harvested and tagged,
> ...


So you are suggesting folks can remove their orange while moving around a dead animal that may look "alive" to another hunter from a few hundred yards away? Just my thoughts given how many idiots are in the woods, but I would keep some orange on throughout the process whether required or not.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

-06, No.
Just pointing out its not required.
Lot's of folks complaing ,;No orange in pictures" 
well, thier not breaking any laws by taking off orange for pics ,,,,

and huge, general season is one thing, LE is another ...

Common sense say's, HO should not be required on LE hunts!!!!..IMO.
Same as it's NOT required on OIAL hunts as long as there no general season going on.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Imo, HO should be worn on/in any hunt involving a fired projectile.


? Someone (Lonetree maybe) correct me if im wrong but, dont big game see in mostly black, white and shades of grey?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here again, look at surounding states orange laws ....

No one getting shot in Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona, wearing NONE, or just a hat!!!
hunting OR retreving game---I mean really.:shock:.

Imagine that!...Are Utahns realy that stupid?..Have to wear 400 inches not to get shot?
I dont thik so.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

I have a Cabelas camo vest that I took some material out of as even the medium was made to fit a 300lb man. I don't wear hats and my hunting pack and binos cover a lot of my vest. I'm sure I don't meet the 400 inch requirement. I also plan to take full responsibility for my actions if caught hunting this way.

For all you "common sense" safety first people, here are other laws I plan to break in the future. Just being honest.

-Speed on freeways from time to time (1-10 over)
-Not wear my seat belt when just going around the block.
-Not make my kids ride in a booster seat beyond 6-7 years old.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.

If you really want to be "safe" it is best advised you not even go hunting and venture off marked trails, alone in the forest.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

! how in the world do you two expect anybody to see you? IMO, there isnt enough HO required in any of our hunts. We all should be wearing lil blinking lights so we can see how many of us are setting up on eachother, be required to send and recieve smoke signals, write morse code via slamming rocks together, and with that i also would like to see portapotty's at every lookout, double ply buttwipe in them, and a little mint tray next to the hand sanitizer on the door as you exit said potty. Next i would like to see each and EVERY road/trail ect PAVED and plowed/serviced so i can drive my Prius.

btw: "they" can take all the HO and stuff it where the sun dont shine. ;-)


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Again, yet another reason I don't rifle hunt in Utah any more. 

Growing up in Idaho, hunter orange was not required. Our local high school colors were red and white, so we had plenty of red clothing, which we also wore hunting. Mostly so we could see each other in a quick glance. But these were also mountains where if we found other hunters, we found another mountain and left the place to them. And there were plenty of mountains to go around. 

Hunting in Utah, I've had WAAAAYYYYY too many guys looking at me with their scopes, and I ALWAYS wear an orange vest and hat. I'm a big guy, so that is way more than 400 square inches. 

Where I also make sure I wear orange, and I REQUIRE all my hunting partners to do the same, is when pheasant hunting. In fact, I keep several extra orange ball caps and stocking caps in my box when I go pheasant hunting in case someone forgets. (after hunting season, I've picked them up for $.50 to $1.00 at Walmart) When everyone swings on a flushing rooster, it is really nice to have your eye catch that orange hat when moving on a bird. If guys don't want to wear at least an orange hat when pheasant hunting, I simply won't hunt with them.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

I was certainly kidding in my last post, HO is always worn on my back, chest and head... although, maybe not to _full_ extent of the rule book.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Here is a question. When watching hunting shows that are hunting big game in Utah, the majority of the time they show the hunter shooting without wearing orange or maybe just a cap. Does the law not apply to them? Maybe the Division should review and sight those that break the law that is documented on video?


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

good point... Don Pay might-could give you some enlightenment as to how the "other half" hunts. ;-)


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

Personally, I know I will never mistakenly shoot an 18 inch spread buck that I thought was over 24. I for sure will NEVER shoot a doe that I thought was a buck. I am not even remotley concerned about shooting another hunter. 

As far as being on the other end of the barrel. . . . . I would say let people make their own judgment call. Let them assume what ever amount of risk they want and let them live with the consiquences. Some places guys talk about hunting in are crazy enough I might even double up the hunter orange. The law is the law so any law breakers need to pay the consiquences but I don't see the need with this particular law to go snitching on each other.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> Here is a question. When watching hunting shows that are hunting big game in Utah, the majority of the time they show the hunter shooting without wearing orange or maybe just a cap. Does the law not apply to them? Maybe the Division should review and sight those that break the law that is documented on video?


My guess is that most of what you see on the hunting shows is on CWMUs, or canned hunts on game ranches, in spite of what they might say during the show. Too much money getting a production crew out there to risk not getting an animal. And CWMUs and private ranches, hunter orange is not required, as there will be no general season hunt going on.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

10000ft. said:


> Personally, I know I will never mistakenly shoot an 18 inch spread buck that I thought was over 24. I for sure will NEVER shoot a doe that I thought was a buck. I am not even remotley concerned about shooting another hunter.
> 
> As far as being on the other end of the barrel. . . . . I would say let people make their own judgment call. Let them assume what ever amount of risk they want and let them live with the consiquences. Some places guys talk about hunting in are crazy enough I might even double up the hunter orange. The law is the law so any law breakers need to pay the consiquences but I don't see the need with this particular law to go snitching on each other.


Live with the consiquences?Not if its my a$$ they are shooting at.:shock:


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