# BRBR, Fish Springs, Ouray CLOSED!!!



## Fowlmouth

From the Utah Division Of Wildlife Resources FB Page:

"The Department of the Interior has notified the public that all national refuges are closed until further notice. That includes Fish Springs National Wildlife Refuge, Bear River Migratory Bird Refuge and Ouray National Wildlife Refuge. 

Due to a lapse of government funding, this account will not be active until further notice. 

All activities on Refuge lands and in public buildings are canceled. This includes hunting and fishing activities on Refuge lands. Our Wildlife Education Center is also closed."


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## Hoopermat

I guess Harold crane here we come.


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## Fowlmouth

All the WMA's just got a he!! of a lot busier this weekend.........


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## Donttreadonme

Add to that the fact that Cutler is being drained starting next Monday and we have a legitimate problem on our hands. Looks like Idaho for me this season.


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## pelican

Think how many guides are going to running around this week looking for new spots!!! Seriously I bet they have this resolved by the weekend.


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## utahgolf

That's crappy, the spoiled brats in washington play their games while the average joes get the shaft. Hope not too many people show up there and have their opener ruined.


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## Longgun

utahgolf said:


> That's crappy,* the spoiled brats in washington play their games* while the average joes get the shaft. Hope not too many people show up there and have their opener ruined.


+1, and all the while being compensated very handsomely for it.

im sure its NOT QUITE the vision our founding fathers had in mind for the nation.


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## paddler

Just keep voting for anybody with an "R" behind their name, the temper tamtrums and attempted extortion will continue. Can't wait for the debt limit fight, maybe that idiot Lee and his compadres can crash the world economy. Won't that be nice???


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## drakebob01

Farmington bay is always busy, but wow!!!! Now there will be a line at 5 the day before!!!


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## ram2h2o

Oct. 5, 2013, good day to go grouse and chucker hunting.


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## ram2h2o

paddler213 said:


> Just keep voting for anybody with an "R" behind their name, the temper tamtrums and attempted extortion will continue. Can't wait for the debt limit fight, maybe that idiot Lee and his compadres can crash the world economy. Won't that be nice???


Seems to me that the temper tantrums and extortion are coming from anybody with a "D" behind their name. 
I don't recall anyone with an "R" behind their names wanting to take our right to bear arms away from us like those with a "D" behind their names!
Keep on voting for the "D"'s and you won't be able to hunt much less own a firearm. Just look at who Obama appointed to run the Dept of Interior. and I think it was John Kerry (D) who just signed the UN arms treaty!


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## tallbuck

drakebob01 said:


> Farmington bay is always busy, but wow!!!! Now there will be a line at 5 the day before!!!


plan on 2am this year!


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## toasty

paddler213 said:


> Just keep voting for anybody with an "R" behind their name, the temper tamtrums and attempted extortion will continue. Can't wait for the debt limit fight, maybe that idiot Lee and his compadres can crash the world economy. Won't that be nice???


Did you get those talking point from Obama? Maybe Lee and his compadres can save this country from certain bankruptcy.


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## paddler

ram2h2o said:


> Oct. 5, 2013, good day to go grouse and chucker hunting.


Yep, that's where I'll be.


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## paddler

toasty said:


> Did you get those talking point from Obama? Maybe Lee and his compadres can save this country from certain bankruptcy.


The Affordable Care Act was passed by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court, Obama ran on and was reelcted because of it, and it's the law of the land. Now Lee, Cruz, and others want to kill the law in return for funding our governent? Really? Thirty members of one chamber of Congress in one branch of government want to hold the entire country hostage unless they get their way? And you're okay with that?


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## UtahWineOh

paddler213 said:


> The Affordable Care Act was passed by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court, Obama ran on and was reelcted because of it, and it's the law of the land. Now Lee, Cruz, and others want to kill the law in return for funding our governent? Really? Thirty members of one chamber of Congress in one branch of government want to hold the entire country hostage unless they get their way? And you're okay with that?


*Word!*


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## Stimmy

I cant believe I am saying this, but I agree with Paddler.  **** that was hard to type.


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## toasty

paddler213 said:


> The Affordable Care Act was passed by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court, Obama ran on and was reelcted because of it, and it's the law of the land. Now Lee, Cruz, and others want to kill the law in return for funding our governent? Really? Thirty members of one chamber of Congress in one branch of government want to hold the entire country hostage unless they get their way? And you're okay with that?


Well it is not 30 members of one chamber, it is the House of Rep that voted for the defunding of Obamacare. Lee and Cruz aren't even in the House of Reps that voted for it. The last count was 212 reps who voted to defund it including 7 democrats. The funding required was grossly underestimated and Obama himself is waiving requirements of the law at his will and pleasure. The last vote was to postpone it for 1 year (something Obama has already done for large businesses and others without congressional approval) and the Senate will not agree to that. The 212 representatives see the road ahead and the financial disaster this bill is going to be and vote to postpone its implementation while the rest of the US figures out how bad this is for our country. Tell me how we arrived at a system of law where a president could pick and choose the parts of a law to enforce and not enforce? Sounds more like a dictatorship which we are quickly deteriorating to becoming.


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## royta

paddler213 said:


> Just keep voting for anybody with an "R" behind their name, the temper tamtrums and attempted extortion will continue. Can't wait for the debt limit fight, maybe that idiot Lee and his compadres can crash the world economy. Won't that be nice???





ram2h2o said:


> Seems to me that the temper tantrums and extortion are coming from anybody with a "D" behind their name.
> I don't recall anyone with an "R" behind their names wanting to take our right to bear arms away from us like those with a "D" behind their names!
> Keep on voting for the "D"'s and you won't be able to hunt much less own a firearm. Just look at who Obama appointed to run the Dept of Interior. and I think it was John Kerry (D) who just signed the UN arms treaty!


Folks, this is a "D" *AND* "R" issue, and it is *OUR* faults. We, as a whole, care more about the Kardashians and Honey Boo Boo than we do with who is running for office. In 6 short years, we as a nation could vote every one of these scumbags out of office and start over, but I doubt we'll spend the time. We are a lazy nation of people who simply don't care

The gub'mnt needs a nasty reminder that they work for us!!! What will we do about it?


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## paddler

toasty said:


> Well it is not 30 members of one chamber, it is the House of Rep that voted for the defunding of Obamacare. Lee and Cruz aren't even in the House of Reps that voted for it. The last count was 212 reps who voted to defund it including 7 democrats. The funding required was grossly underestimated and Obama himself is waiving requirements of the law at his will and pleasure. The last vote was to postpone it for 1 year (something Obama has already done for large businesses and others without congressional approval) and the Senate will not agree to that. The 212 representatives see the road ahead and the financial disaster this bill is going to be and vote to postpone its implementation while the rest of the US figures out how bad this is for our country. Tell me how we arrived at a system of law where a president could pick and choose the parts of a law to enforce and not enforce? Sounds more like a dictatorship which we are quickly deteriorating to becoming.


Actually, the House would pass a clean CR if Boehner would allow a vote, as there are ~170 Republicans who would vote that way. The problem is that passing a clean CR would maybe cost Boehner his speakership, as it would be embarrassing for him to have to rely on Democrats to help.

Attaching an amendment to defund or delay the ACA to a CR to fund the government is extortion. Extortion is not governing. The ACA is here to stay, get over it. The only reason this latest ploy won't cost the Republicans what it should is that gerrymandering has made many election-proof. People like you, Toasty, will vote for anybody with an R behind their name. That's why our refuges and National Parks are now closed. Thank you.

I don't see an end in sight. I wouldn't give an inch if I were Obama, and I don't think he will. Wait till the Repubs try to extort him over the debt limit. I wouldn't negotiate on that, either. Trouble ahead. These guys are messing with my retirement savings.


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## pelican

I can't wait until Saturday!!!


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## Clarq

Jeez, certain people just love opening up one can of worms after another. 

Maybe we can look at the positive aspects of this situation:

1. There is widespread concern that birds won't stay around the GSL for very long due to a lack of rest areas. Now, thanks to the government, they have the entire BRBR to rest on.

2. All of you on furlough now have much more time to hunt.

3. We will be treated to an interesting spectacle as we watch the Republicans commit political suicide. I'm not sure how I should feel about that one.

4. We can all talk about it with the people who set up 10 feet away from us on the opener.

Have a nice day.


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## toasty

paddler213 said:


> People like you, Toasty, will vote for anybody with an R behind their name. That's why our refuges and National Parks are now closed. Thank you.
> 
> I don't see an end in sight. I wouldn't give an inch if I were Obama, and I don't think he will. Wait till the Repubs try to extort him over the debt limit. I wouldn't negotiate on that, either. Trouble ahead. These guys are messing with my retirement savings.


I actually vote for "I" as much as "R", I don't care what the party is as long as the candidate believes in small government and I don't think they are lying. I don't want the National Parks and refuges closed either, I hunt them too, if the feds didn't own the land, this wouldn't be a problem anyway. What we should be ticked about is how the feds can lock us out of hunting and enjoying our own resources.

What I can't figure out is how a grown man can embrace socialism. What do you get out of the government controlling my life? I will never understand your point of view paddler. In my eyes, you guys are nut jobs, incapable of rational thought.

I've wasted too much of my time on this thread anyway, the idiots will continue to be idiots and the people that don't care will continue watching honey boo boo and the people that understand the foundation of freedom will continue to be shocked and dismayed at the direction this country is going.


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## rjefre

I'm sure it will create a bit of an influx of hunters is the state-owned WMA's. We get what we deserve...you, me, and all of us keep re-electing these folks. If you vote for an incumbent, you are part of the problem.
R


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## huntingbuddy

Paddler I have to say I disagree with you. This is a R & D problem. Both sides like to spend money, it just depends on what they want to spend money on. A lot like a guy and girl, girl likes shoes, guy likes guns. They think what the other spends their money on is stupid. The federal govt does a lot of things it should not do including healthcare and education just to name a few. ACA is a horrible bill that will bankrupt this country quicker than we already are. ACA has a great idea behind it. Hey there are people out there without healthcare, lets give them healthcare, great idea but not so great in practice. A couple things I see wrong with ACA, first it mandates that businesses pay for their employees healthcare. Honestly I don't think employers should provide healthcare for their employees, period. Health insurance needs to be fixed, I will agree with that, but ACA is the wrong way. Think of the DMV, who runs that? The govt and what a cluster that is. I don't want them running my health care. I hope the shut down lasts for a while, then people will see we don't need the govt as much as they thought. If the govt is just shutting down non essentials then why did we need to fund them in the first place! If you would like to discuss it more with me, pm me and we can chat.


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## paddler

huntingbuddy said:


> Paddler I have to say I disagree with you. This is a R & D problem. Both sides like to spend money, it just depends on what they want to spend money on. A lot like a guy and girl, girl likes shoes, guy likes guns. They think what the other spends their money on is stupid. The federal govt does a lot of things it should not do including healthcare and education just to name a few. ACA is a horrible bill that will bankrupt this country quicker than we already are. ACA has a great idea behind it. Hey there are people out there without healthcare, lets give them healthcare, great idea but not so great in practice. A couple things I see wrong with ACA, first it mandates that businesses pay for their employees healthcare. Honestly I don't think employers should provide healthcare for their employees, period. Health insurance needs to be fixed, I will agree with that, but ACA is the wrong way. Think of the DMV, who runs that? The govt and what a cluster that is. I don't want them running my health care. I hope the shut down lasts for a while, then people will see we don't need the govt as much as they thought. If the govt is just shutting down non essentials then why did we need to fund them in the first place! If you would like to discuss it more with me, pm me and we can chat.


I object to the process. ACA is the law of the land. Holding the country hostage because you don't like it is not democracy. If you don't like it, get it changed or repealed through the democratic process. Trying to defund it or delay it by linking it to a Continuing Resolution to fund the government is and should be DOA. End of discussion.


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## Hoopermat

You people need to quit watching the news. You will never know what is really going on in DC because everyone talking about it has an agenda. There is no use blaming the R or D's in DC because they are all frauds. 
It's just a shell game. While you focus on this I'll be doing that. Don't worry I'm sure Obama has some plans to do some shady crap behind the scene while we all focus on the stupid shut down. If history has taught us anything is nothing good has ever come out of any politicians mouth and I don't care what party they are. -O\\__-:deadhorse:


I don't usually hate people but when I do they are always call liberals. 

Paddle with context of your posts I'm surprised you even own a gun!


Rand Paul 2016. (Just for fun ha ha)

Pot stirred!!!!!!!!O*--


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## huntingbuddy

Paddler this is the democratic process they are using! BTW we live in a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy! The country is not being held hostage. The non-essentials have been shut down. Meaning things we can live without! I.E. what people do when they are on a budget and trying to cut expenses. Quite frankly I think these things should be shut down until the budget and deficient have been fixed. Sure it sucks BRBR is shut down but that shouldn't be the federal govts thing, it should be a state thing. Obama is one of the biggest liars in politics. He has lied about Syria, Benghazi and a whole host of other things. I don't trust him at all. I don't trust most republicans either! I have lived in countries that have socialized healthcare, it is not the road we want to go down. Try waiting over a year to get shoulder surgery, I have seen it happen and it is not good for the patient. 

You ask me to help the needy, poor, less fortunate and down trodden, I will gladly help. But if you force me, I will fight you tooth and nail. I would help someone pay for a little bit of their health care if they couldn't and I was asked.


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## king eider

paddler213 said:


> I object to the process. ACA is the law of the land. Holding the country hostage because you don't like it is not democracy. If you don't like it, get it changed or repealed through the democratic process. Trying to defund it or delay it by linking it to a Continuing Resolution to fund the government is and should be DOA. End of discussion.


So Barry can expempt and manipulate the law as he sees fit (so far a total of 18 times i think), but when the house sends 3 different spending bills to the senate they can turn there nose to it and say the GOP is shutting it down. i love the twist on facts here paddler. who is holding who hostage?? welcome to the game of politics. each isle blaming the other!! HAHAHAA!!! remember the GOP is trying to change the individual mandate and the DME excise tax. that is at the crux of all this.


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## Theekillerbee

Personally I think they are all corrupt. Absolute power begats absolute corruption! When the repubs were in control, it wasn't pretty, then the dems took over, and made it even uglier. In my opinion this crazy train is too far down the track to stop it from going off the cliff anyways. Our wonderful leaders in DC do not want to tackle the real problem of government deficit. They like to spend way more than they make....you can't run a business or a household like that. I sure can't figure out why they think they can run a country like that. No matter what your political views are, you can't argue with the simple math.

Now back to the subject matter. It is lame that they can close the fuge and cite you for trespassing if you are there. It is technically all our property, and our duck stamp purchase pays for those places. If I were a federal judge, I'd just issue a statement that says all tickets will be null and void.


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## paddler

It's game over, ACA is here to stay. Nothing the Republicans can do will stop it. In New York alone, 7.5 million people went to websites today to access medical insurance between 8:00 am and mid-afternoon. Turns out health insurance is popular. The Republicans are trying to deny 30 million Americans health care. Good luck with that. They will soon find themselves alone, angry old white guys, twisting in the wind. This will end badly for them. Hopefully Democrats will regain control of the House in 2014. 

Keep blindly voting "R", you're only hurting yourselves. Anybody here approve of Mike Lee's behavior?


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## Hoopermat

Well he'll let's just surrender and change our flag to Canada's. if you want to see what happens to a country that spends and spends with socialized health care just head north. 
I've been up here for a year and if the us doesn't pay attention we will end up just like them.


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## paddler

Hostage-taking politics is over. Democrats are done negotiating with extremists. If you can repeal the ACA, do it. If not, shutting down the government will be a costly mistake. Go for it, boys, and good luck.

I had a conversation with another poster here a year or so ago, in which I explained that the Republican agenda of "Drill, Baby, Drill", defunding the EPA, etc, was anti-hunter. He said he'd remain a Republican and try to work for change within it. I challenged him to switch affiliations. How's that working out for you?


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## Hoopermat

Ok let all learn it were going to need it


O Canada! our home and native land!
True patriot-love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
And stand on guard, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.

Chorus
O Canada, glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada! where pines and maples grow,
Great prairies spread, and lordly rivers flow.
How dear to us thy broad domain,
From East to Western sea.
The land of hope for all who toil,
The True North strong and free!

Chorus
O Canada, glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada! beneath our shining skies,
May stalwart sons, and gentle maidens rise.
To keep thee steadfast through the years,
From east to western sea,
Our own beloved native land,
Our true north strong and free!

Chorus
O Canada, glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Ruler Supreme! who hearest humble prayer,
Hold thy Dominion in thy loving care;
Help us to find, Oh God, in thee,
A lasting rich reward.
As waiting for the Better Day,
We ever stand on guard.

O Canada, Glorious and free! Amen



:OX/::canada::canada::canada::V|:

Rand Paul 2016


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## king eider

paddler213 said:


> It's game over, ACA is here to stay. Nothing the Republicans can do will stop it. In New York alone, 7.5 million people went to websites today to access medical insurance between 8:00 am and mid-afternoon. Turns out health insurance is popular. The Republicans are trying to deny 30 million Americans health care. Good luck with that. They will soon find themselves alone, angry old white guys, twisting in the wind. This will end badly for them. Hopefully Democrats will regain control of the House in 2014.
> 
> Keep blindly voting "R", you're only hurting yourselves. Anybody here approve of Mike Lee's behavior?


republicans are trying to amend and fix a broken patch job of a law. hell the POTUS has done more of the same with the stroke of the executive order. kind of funny how the CBO stated that after the affordable care act there will still be about the same 30 million uninsured. this isnt about getting people affordable heath care as much as it is about changing the system to a single payer. there are some good things in the PPACA, however there are many not so... yes it is the law of the land, however it is in need of some major fixes. "but lets pass it to find out whats in it!" thats my kind of party i want in control. who let the kids run the classroom??


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## mmunson

private property plans for saturday :grin:


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## king eider

So I just ran the numbers. I'm self employed and currently purchase my own health insurance. If I changed over to go with the exchange under ObamaCare my premium would increase from $322/month to $708/month. That would be the lower option bronze plan. Ya that's a good deal for me! How is this making insurance affordable paddler? Now I know some folks will get more out of "subsidy" than I, so I would pay more so someone else will pay less! Thanks Barry!!! True democrat fashion. Redistribute the wealth!!!

Ran the numbers for a friend of mine. His total annual premium is $700 for the bronze plan. He would get over $8500 in subsidy. I look at it in no other way than a tax. Thank you democrates!!! I'll keep my current plan as long as I can till Barry takes it away from me and forces me into his system of tax redistribution.


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## pelican

Just three more days!!!!:grin:


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## Mr Muleskinner

paddler213 said:


> It's game over, ACA is here to stay. Nothing the Republicans can do will stop it. In New York alone, 7.5 million people went to websites today to access medical insurance between 8:00 am and mid-afternoon. Turns out health insurance is popular. The Republicans are trying to deny 30 million Americans health care. Good luck with that. They will soon find themselves alone, angry old white guys, twisting in the wind. This will end badly for them. Hopefully Democrats will regain control of the House in 2014.
> 
> Keep blindly voting "R", you're only hurting yourselves. Anybody here approve of Mike Lee's behavior?


Most of them accessed websites that did not work to try to get free and affordable health care that does not exist. Accessing the websites is like going to an empty fridge to get a bite to eat.

The ACA may be here to stay but it will never work as written because the funding for it is not there and will not be there. Young, healthy Americans that rarely use health care will sooner pay the $95 fine for not having it rather than fund the system. Companies will choose to hire more part time people rather than insure them. Many companies will quit providing insurance altogether and just pay the $2000 fine because it is cheaper than providing insurance to begin with and after all, everybody can now get affordable health care elsewhere. Right? Just wait until the typical company across America drops health care benefits completely, pays $2000 per employee and the system is really tested. How do you think the system is going to work then? Think about it........really think about it..............Uh ooooohhhh.

"Angry old white guys".........isn't it against the democratic hypocritical oath to stereo type?


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## Fowlmouth

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Young, healthy Americans that rarely use health care will sooner pay the $95 fine for not having it rather than fund the system.


This is how I understand it also. There needs to be young americans paying for insurance to help fund the system. So, how does that really work when young people can stay on their parents insurance until age 26? I'm sure there will still be a lot of uninsured people, but what is the incentive to get off your parents insurance? None?


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## Theekillerbee

Truly paddler you are drinking the dem Koolaid! My opinion is that the government is corrupt, regardless of which party you support, but if you really look at the whole picture, the states and cities that are really circling the toilet bowl when it comes to financial situation are run by the dems. The strongest states financially are run by repubs. I'm not saying the repubs are any less corrupt, I'm just saying that the social agenda of the democratic party is not sustainable.

I have a friend that is a semi-retired surgeon. He does the occasional trip to Yellow Knife Canada on a locum basis. Earlier this year he was there for about 3 weeks, and the government CANCELLED all elective surgeries while he was there! That means only emergent surgeries could be done! That really means you suffer even longer with your symptoms. I think that is eventually what we have coming.


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## Mr Muleskinner

Fowlmouth said:


> This is how I understand it also. There needs to be young americans paying for insurance to help fund the system. So, how does that really work when young people can stay on their parents insurance until age 26? I'm sure there will still be a lot of uninsured people, but what is the incentive to get off your parents insurance? None?


There is no incentive. There is also no real incentive for those that are not on their parents plans to get their own. $95 is not incentive that is for sure and we know that most young people don't concern themselves with what may happen with their health a few months down the road.


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## paddler

People up to age 26 may remain on their parent's plan. After that they must buy their own insurance. Simple. Not allowing insurance companies to refuse coverage for people with preexisting conditions makes the individual mandate necessary. Without the mandate, which the Republicans have proposed eliminating, people could go without insurance until they have a major medical problem. So, they pay nothing into the system until they get cancer, at which time they cannot be denied insurance. That simply won't work. The penalty for not getting insurance is $95 for the first year, but increases yearly. People will be incentivised to get insurance.

Anybody see Jimmy Kimmel the other night? He asked people on the street whether they preferred Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act. Interesting, and even funny, until you realize how ill-informed people are. Reminds me of many of the responses here.

The basic question remains, though. Is it right that one party can hold the entire federal government hostage because they don't like one law, especially when that law was passed democratically by Congress, signed by the President, upheld by SCOTUS, then tested again during the 2012 Presidential election? A law that Republicans have voted to repeal more than 40 times and failed each time? Do elections have consequences? Should we, as a country, approve of the hostage taking tactics of the Tea Party? What if the roles were reversed? What if Obama refused any CR unless a gun control amendment was attached? Has he done that? I wouldn't negotiate with terrorists, but would instead cut their legs out from under them.


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## dkhntrdstn

man this topic got off track fast.


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## Mr Muleskinner

yea it did. I am partly to blame for that. My apologies.


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## swbuckmaster

Padler and anyone who believes that the democrats or rihnos are doing this country right is an idiot. Padler would love to keep seeing the debt celing going up kick the can so to speak. Guess what padler we can't afford to keep kicking the can down the road. If you haven't noticed padler the public sector who funds the government is in the tank. The public sector took the hit several years ago. Hell I lost 35% of my income. Its was only a matter of time till the government side takes a hit like the public side did.

We can't afford this obama bs health care or any other goverment programs right now.

Padler if the obama care ain't good enough for the pukes who wrote it then thats your first sign it ain't good enough for any else. 

As for not hunting those areas screw them. Its the peoples land and go hunt it.

Forgot to mention screw all democrats and rihnos and screw obummer!

Nuff said!


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## cklspencer

Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age. AGE 76, YOU WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANY CANCER TREATMENTS. 

Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)

Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

ACA sounds great!.........

I didn't really want to jump into this thread since it was off topic but let me put it this way..

Puddler you have no IDEA what you are talking about.

I have 4 kids, three of my kids have life threatening issues. Since the ACA was put in place my kids medical cost of gone up every month. 

Their care cost me more than the income I make every month. I went to school, got a great paying job, work hard and try my best to get by. I get no help because of the amount of money I make. My wife and I have been told several times I should quit my job and we would get all the help we need.......the thing is, its true, we would get all the help we need. The help we would get would equal my current income and I wouldn't head in the whole every month. Why don't I do this. Well I was brought up better than that, and with the understanding that it was up to me to make my life what ever I want it to be.

ACA will do nothing but make it worse for me and my family. In fact 3 of my four kids would be put on the bottom of the list to get care because they are deemed terminal. Why should my kids not get the same care as anyone else. They have just as much right to life as anyone. ACA is a nothing more than a plug puller and a pillage and steal bill.


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## Red-Grouse

I find it ironic that some of you are pissed about duck hunting( and rightfully so) but I know of several people that are without income from legitimate jobs that they work hard at because of this deal. Hunting is important but util these jackals get chit straitened out in DC some folks are without any income. :-(


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## utahgolf

just stirring the pot a bit but for everyone crying socialism, I hope they don't intend on hitting up "public land" for the opener or drive on any "public" roads to get to their hunting destination. Afterall, that would be considered socialism! :grin:


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## Hoopermat

-O\\__-


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## Hoopermat

Can we et a politics page so paddler can troll it and we don't have to listen to his BS anymore?


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## pelican

Cabelas in grand junction was open and had 22 bullets


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## Critter

I heard that the feds were going to close all the National Forest and BlM grounds until this thing was over. :hurt:


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## Fowlmouth

Critter said:


> I heard that the feds were going to close all the National Forest and BlM grounds until this thing was over. :hurt:


I just read that Strawberry Reservoirs campgrounds will all be shut down in 48 hours.......Shiz man the best fishing of the year is just about to begin. Oh well off road camping I guess.


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## Longgun

paddler213 said:


> Just keep voting for anybody with an "R" behind their name, the temper tamtrums and attempted extortion will continue. Can't wait for the debt limit fight, maybe that idiot Lee and his compadres can crash the world economy. Won't that be nice???


Good golly? How in the world do these things happen? Could it be that the D/R DOESNT MATTER ANYMORE? The Code to the rip off reads like a tax code...by design, its a fleeceing. The problem to the CORE is when we have a level of hypocrisy in our government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured....but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. (Works handily at the voting booths also)

YET, any of those who refuse, or are "unable", to prove they are citizens will receive "free" insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens! It's redistribution of wealth defined.

contest it and auditors mysteriously will appear...

and remember, "You didnt earn that, the Government helped you".


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## Longgun

Fowlmouth said:


> I just read that Strawberry Reservoirs campgrounds will all be shut down in 48 hours.......Shiz man the best fishing of the year is just about to begin. Oh well off road camping I guess.


4 wheeldrive will travel! Its our fish, we payed to have them stocked there...


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## Longgun

Hoopermat said:


> Can we et a politics page so paddler can troll it and we don't have to listen to his BS anymore?


ah, cmon... trolls are fun to dink with, ask paddy how his stay over on duckhunter.net went last year. out: ound:


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## Hoopermat

opcorn:


Longgun said:


> ah, cmon... trolls are fun to dink with, ask paddy how his stay over on duckhunter.net went last year. out: ound:


Ok I'll bite lets hear the story. o-||


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## pelican

Its actually "hear"....."here".....that's a place. Example of use....We all here to hear you tell the story.


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## Fowlmouth

pelican said:


> Its actually "hear"....."here".....that's a place. Example of use....
> *We all here to hear you tell the story*.


Ebonics? Hmmm......
Correction "We are all here to hear you tell the story"


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## Hoopermat

pelican said:


> Its actually "hear"....."here".....that's a place. Example of use....We all here to hear you tell the story.


Corrected are you happy **** head


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## pelican

******* spell checker:grin:


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## pelican

Hoopermat said:


> Corrected are you happy **** head


Be nice


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## paddler

What a bunch of whiners! You vote straight Republican because of delusional thought processes, those Republicans shut down our government. All non-essential services are stopped, including our national parks, refuges, etc, and 800,000 people are furloughed. As an aside, I doubt very much those 800,000 families feel non-essential. Anyway, now you guys can't hunt federal ground, and you blame everybody except those responsible. Take a look in the freakin' mirror. It's you, you dumb asses.

Oh, I was banned on the other site by a chickensh*t birther moderator from South Carolina. I explained in detail what a terrible candidate Romney was, and predicted he'd get trounced. On the "Political Action Forum". SC Woodie couldn't handle the truth.


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## Hoopermat

:O>>:


paddler213 said:


> What a bunch of whiners! You vote straight Republican because of delusional thought processes, those Republicans shut down our government. All non-essential services are stopped, including our national parks, refuges, etc, and 800,000 people are furloughed. As an aside, I doubt very much those 800,000 families feel non-essential. Anyway, now you guys can't hunt federal ground, and you blame everybody except those responsible. Take a look in the freakin' mirror. It's you, you dumb asses.
> 
> Oh, I was banned on the other site by a chickensh*t birther moderator from South Carolina. I explained in detail what a terrible candidate Romney was, and predicted he'd get trounced. On the "Political Action Forum". SC Woodie couldn't handle the truth.


:O>>:


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## king eider

paddler213 said:


> What a bunch of whiners! You vote straight Republican because of delusional thought processes, those Republicans shut down our government. All non-essential services are stopped, including our national parks, refuges, etc, and 800,000 people are furloughed. As an aside, I doubt very much those 800,000 families feel non-essential. Anyway, now you guys can't hunt federal ground, and you blame everybody except those responsible. Take a look in the freakin' mirror. It's you, you dumb asses.
> 
> Oh, I was banned on the other site by a chickensh*t birther moderator from South Carolina. I explained in detail what a terrible candidate Romney was, and predicted he'd get trounced. On the "Political Action Forum". SC Woodie couldn't handle the truth.


good grab Jon, give me a break. who's whining because they got banned on the refuge.

the affordable care act is riddled with problems. as i see it not one, i repeat NOT ONE republican voted for this monstrosity of a bill which is now law. Mid term elections where a land slide for the GOP because of it. Now the GOP is making a stand and here you are whining about the tea party being terrorists and jihadists. give me a break!!! The ACA is far more costly than what was originally put out there by this administration. the GOP is pushing back the individual mandate the only way they can. barry pushed back the employer mandate by one year. an illegal move, but hey hes the arrogant POTUS so he gets away with it. the GOP makes a stand and the congress wont take up any of the bills(plural) that have been sent them. Keep it shut and make it hurt!!!!



> "Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you," ...."First of all, if you've got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you."
> -Barack Obama


Here is our LIAR in chief. I will loose my privately bought insurance in 2015 and be forced into the exchange for a sh!$ plan that more than doubles in cost and has LESS benefits!! So stick it with this we LOVE Obama crap. Go chant your "Yes we Can" and "Hope and Change" somewhere else.


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## paddler

ACA is here to stay. Kinda rhymes, don't it? I can just see cheerleaders and pom poms. The Tea Party Republicans are deathly afraid it'll work, which it will. Their main agenda is to keep 20 million Americans uninsured.

I think Obama has learned from prior dealings with the Tea Party, which now leads the Republican Party around by the nose. They absolutely cannot be trusted. He won't negotiate. If I were him, I'd refuse the Republican 988 number. I'd say give me 1206, plus a grand bargain, unlimited debt ceiling, or eat sh*t and die.

This is perhaps the best explanation yet of Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, et al:


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## Hoopermat

paddler213 said:


> ACA is here to stay. Kinda rhymes, don't it? I can just see cheerleaders and pom poms. The Tea Party Republicans are deathly afraid it'll work, which it will. Their main agenda is to keep 20 million Americans uninsured.
> 
> I think Obama has learned from prior dealings with the Tea Party, which now leads the Republican Party around by the nose. They absolutely cannot be trusted. He won't negotiate. If I were him, I'd refuse the Republican 988 number. I'd say give me 1206, plus a grand bargain, unlimited debt ceiling, or eat sh*t and die.
> 
> This is perhaps the best explanation yet of Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, et al:


uken top of uke:
Paddler your a broken record.


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## Hoopermat

Now you are using a TV show to get your news. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha :rotfl:-BaHa!-


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## Greenhead_Slayer

The republicans introduced three small bills that would continue funding for veteran benefits, national parks, and museums and Harry Reid being the ass hat he is calls it "nit-picking". Obama and his goons need to get real. Ironic how 800,000 Americans getting furloughed would rather be furloughed than be forced into this affordable health care circus act.


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## paddler

Greenhead_Slayer said:


> The republicans introduced three small bills that would continue funding for veteran benefits, national parks, and museums and Harry Reid being the ass hat he is calls it "nit-picking". Obama and his goons need to get real. Ironic how 800,000 Americans getting furloughed would rather be furloughed than be forced into this affordable health care circus act.


Complete rubbish. The Republicans cannot justify shutting down the government, or why they won't open it completely. They just want to pick and choose which parts they want to fund. We don't do government a la carte, we won't negotiate with terrorists.

Do you really think those 800,000 workers chose to be furloughed? Are you that stupid? Republicans furloughed 800,000 workers. Everybody who voted for Republicans is responsible. If you indeed voted for that pinhead Lee, you are the problem in Washington. Deal with it, and quit whining.


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## Longgun

Hoopermat said:


> opcorn:
> 
> Ok I'll bite lets hear the story. o-||


LMAO.... WOW! Paddy hits the scene and this thread go's off the rails------HIJACKED! Hmmm... sounds all too familiar.

Anyway, to sum the duckhunter.net story up, he was OWNED in more ways than one in regard to his politics AND his epic failure called "Share the Marsh"...


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## king eider

I dont see any of us whining and throwing names around like a little child except you democrats. your acting like a government shutdown has never happened before. nothing new here, nothing to see. I believe the government has shutdown due to both parties. but its easy to see you have fallen into the kool-aid trap and are pointing your finger at the other kids in the sandbox. GOP = Terrorists, thats funny. thats all you got?


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## birdboy

Damnit, I will never get that 20 minutes back from reading this garbage. Face it, the refuges and other Federal Agencies are closed. The idiots that are in Washington.... that we employee mind you are at fault. R/D doesn't matter, they are all at fault.

I come here to get away from the politics not hear more about it. And when people try to change the subject Paddler keeps it going. You have a history of doing this, both here and at the Refuge. Let it go or take it to a political forum



paddler213 said:


> Oh, I was banned on the other site by a chickensh*t birther moderator from South Carolina. I explained in detail what a terrible candidate Romney was, and predicted he'd get trounced. On the "Political Action Forum". SC Woodie couldn't handle the truth.


Maybe Woody should monitor this forum


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## Longgun

paddler213 said:


> Complete rubbish. The idjits on the hill cannot justify shutting down the government, or why they won't open it completely. They just want to pick and choose which parts they want to fund. We don't do government a la carte, we won't negotiate with terrorists.
> 
> Do you really think those 800,000 workers chose to be furloughed? Are you that stupid? Congress furloughed 800,000 workers. Everybody who voted is responsible. If you indeed voted for that pinhead Barry, you are the problem in Washington. Deal with it, and quit whining.


FIFY 

Silly thing is some folks want to grow gubberment, when in FACT we as a Nation should be yanking those whom overstay out like weeds.

... now lets get back to that conversation about boat ramps in rest areas should we? Er not...


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## Hoopermat

paddler213 said:


> Complete rubbish. The Republicans cannot justify shutting down the government, or why they won't open it completely. They just want to pick and choose which parts they want to fund. We don't do government a la carte, we won't negotiate with terrorists.
> 
> Do you really think those 800,000 workers chose to be furloughed? Are you that stupid? Republicans furloughed 800,000 workers. Everybody who voted for Republicans is responsible. If you indeed voted for that pinhead Lee, you are the problem in Washington. Deal with it, and quit whining.


-O\\__--/|\\-:canada::canada::canada:


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## paddler

birdboy said:


> Damnit, I will never get that 20 minutes back from reading this garbage. Face it, the refuges and other Federal Agencies are closed. The idiots that are in Washington.... that we employee mind you are at fault. R/D doesn't matter, they are all at fault.
> 
> I come here to get away from the politics not hear more about it. And when people try to change the subject Paddler keeps it going. You have a history of doing this, both here and at the Refuge. Let it go or take it to a political forum
> 
> Maybe Woody should monitor this forum


Actually, this thread is about the closure of our Refuges. Republicans in Washington are responsible, because they have taken the government hostage. If you have a problem with that, contact your Republican Senator or Representative. I'm just the messenger.:smile:


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## Longgun

*Messenger my arse...*

*\\-\\*:loco:


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## Longgun

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Most of them accessed websites that did not work to try to get free and affordable health care that does not exist. Accessing the websites is like going to an empty fridge to get a bite to eat.
> 
> The ACA may be here to stay but it will never work as written because the funding for it is not there and will not be there. Young, healthy Americans that rarely use health care will sooner pay the $95 fine for not having it rather than fund the system. Companies will choose to hire more part time people rather than insure them. Many companies will quit providing insurance altogether and just pay the $2000 fine because it is cheaper than providing insurance to begin with and after all, everybody can now get affordable health care elsewhere. Right? Just wait until the typical company across America drops health care benefits completely, pays $2000 per employee and the system is really tested. How do you think the system is going to work then? Think about it........really think about it..............Uh ooooohhhh.
> 
> "Angry old white guys".........isn't it against the democratic hypocritical oath to stereo type?


If its only "you" that you are covering, or should have been covering in the past, it's $95.00 OR 1% of your gross earnings, whichever is greater.

Read the following link on how the penalty is also a progressive tax:
http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2012/...ealth-insurance-in-2014how-much-will-you-pay/


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## royta

Yeah, blame the Republicans. Paddler is a tool.


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## Mr Muleskinner

Longgun said:


> If its only "you" that you are covering, or should have been covering in the past, it's $95.00 OR 1% of your gross earnings, whichever is greater.
> 
> Read the following link on how the penalty is also a progressive tax:
> http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2012/...ealth-insurance-in-2014how-much-will-you-pay/


Yea I know. It also goes to 2.5% max the following year. Basically once a person reaches about $50,000 in income they will be money ahead to buy the insurance based on yearly rates. Aside from the fact that having health insurance is a good thing, a huge majority of young healthy people will not purchase it until it becomes a net loss for them to do so.


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## paddler

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Yea I know. It also goes to 2.5% max the following year. Basically once a person reaches about $50,000 in income they will be money ahead to buy the insurance based on yearly rates. *Aside from the fact that having health insurance is a good thing*, a huge majority of young healthy people will not purchase it until it becomes a net loss for them to do so.


I agree. Why are the Republicans trying to keep 20 million people uninsured??? I say let's go hunting.


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## K Lark

paddler it not hard to see what you stood on; got one quesoin; i keep hereing that obamacare is the law, well so is law that you supposed to be a legal citizen so why ain,t ur pals enforcen that? of them 7 million how many are illegals? smells like a good ole arkansas pig farm to me and i hope the kenyan and harold reed get hit by a bus;


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## Mr Muleskinner

paddler213 said:


> I agree. Why are the Republicans trying to keep 20 million people uninsured??? I say let's go hunting.


You miss the point?

I don't hunt with dems. They always expect me to pay for the gas and shells.

JK......couldn't resist a cheap shot.


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## paddler

K Lark said:


> paddler it not hard to see what you stood on; got one quesoin; i keep hereing that obamacare is the law, well so is law that you supposed to be a legal citizen so why ain,t ur pals enforcen that? of them 7 million how many are illegals? smells like a good ole arkansas pig farm to me and i hope the kenyan and harold reed get hit by a bus;


Check the deportation statistics under Bush vs Obama and get back to me.



Mr Muleskinner said:


> You miss the point?
> 
> I don't hunt with dems. They always expect me to pay for the gas and shells.
> 
> JK......couldn't resist a cheap shot.


I'll hunt with anybody, so long as I can pay for gas and shells.


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## hamernhonkers

paddler213 said:


> Check the deportation statistics under Bush vs Obama and get back to me.
> 
> I'll hunt with anybody, so long as I can pay for gas and shells.


Good to see you'll redistribute your wealth paddler.


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## Mr Muleskinner

paddler213 said:


> Check the deportation statistics under Bush vs Obama and get back to me.


Double check the way in which tracking deportation statistics has changed under Obama. There two sides to this story as well.


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## paddler

hamernhonkers said:


> Good to see you'll redistribute your wealth paddler.


You got that right. You should see my tax bill.


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## huntingbuddy

paddler213 said:


> You vote straight Republican because of delusional thought processes,


 Funny thing is I didn't vote republican or democrat this election! So you can stop with the blanket statement.



paddler213 said:


> those Republicans shut down our government.


 Actually both parties are responsible



paddler213 said:


> All non-essential services are stopped, including our national parks, refuges, etc, and 800,000 people are furloughed.


 You hit the nail on the head, those are non-essential to running our country. Our federal govt doesn't need to be running those things if they aren't essential. Does it suck that Ouray, Fish Springs and BRBR got shut down, yeah it does. Quite frankly it should be state land not federal land.



paddler213 said:


> Anyway, now you guys can't hunt federal ground, and you blame everybody except those responsible. Take a look in the freakin' mirror.


 I think we are mad we can't hunt public land, that we paid for with our taxes. The Federal LEO's are going to be out there anyways making sure nobody trespasses on our own land, why can't they just let us hunt it.



paddler213 said:


> It's you, you dumb asses.


 No need to swear at us and call us names, we have been able to keep this civil up to this point, I think we should keep it that way.

As far as the Tea Party being terrorist and jihadist. I don't recall them blowing up buildings, kidnapping-torturing-and cutting off the head of their victims. So I think your calling of them terrorist is a little extreme.

Paddler we can't keep raising our debt ceiling. We are already going broke as a country. We need to stop the bleeding fast and that means getting rid of services. It will be tough and hard for the first little bit but we can get through it and it will be a whole lot easier than if we try and do it in the future or if we just crash in the future. Here it is day 3 and as a country we are functioning just fine.


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## hamernhonkers

paddler213 said:


> You got that right. You should see my tax bill.


And thank you for that!!! You know how much it costs to feed my 28 with high density no tox-O,-


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## K Lark

being not well edumacated, hunting buddy post could not be better! we shood probally move on from politic cause they don,t agree in dc, and we ain,t either; last things is harold ried is the devil and paddler, this is usaul time of year you start fights with mud motor guys, not about politics;


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## paddler

huntingbuddy said:


> Funny thing is I didn't vote republican or democrat this election! So you can stop with the blanket statement..


Did you vote for Mike Lee?



huntingbuddy said:


> Actually both parties are responsible.


Wrong. The Republicans shut down the government. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, but facts are facts.



huntingbuddy said:


> You hit the nail on the head, those are non-essential to running our country. Our federal govt doesn't need to be running those things if they aren't essential. Does it suck that Ouray, Fish Springs and BRBR got shut down, yeah it does. Quite frankly it should be state land not federal land..


You'd rather have Utah manage Federal lands? That's silly.



huntingbuddy said:


> I think we are mad we can't hunt public land, that we paid for with our taxes. The Federal LEO's are going to be out there anyways making sure nobody trespasses on our own land, why can't they just let us hunt it..


Because the government shut down all non-essential services.



huntingbuddy said:


> No need to swear at us and call us names, we have been able to keep this civil up to this point, I think we should keep it that way..


Point well taken. I apologize. It's exasperating when folks vote against their own interests then complain when it comes home to roost.



huntingbuddy said:


> As far as the Tea Party being terrorist and jihadist. I don't recall them blowing up buildings, kidnapping-torturing-and cutting off the head of their victims. So I think your calling of them terrorist is a little extreme..


They are threatening to blow up the world economy. Do you prefer extortionists? I'll agree to that.



huntingbuddy said:


> Paddler we can't keep raising our debt ceiling. We are already going broke as a country. We need to stop the bleeding fast and that means getting rid of services. It will be tough and hard for the first little bit but we can get through it and it will be a whole lot easier than if we try and do it in the future or if we just crash in the future. *Here it is day 3 and as a country we are functioning just fine*.


Really? I think you should check with the 800,000 employees furloughed, and those having to do without the services they provide. The Refuge comes to mind. I doubt they'd say they are doing just fine.

The debt will come down as the economy improves, which it will do with increased government spending. Read some economics, there's a whole world out there besides Fox News.


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## paddler

hamernhonkers said:


> And thank you for that!!! You know how much it costs to feed my 28 with high density no tox-O,-


Yep, I know. Too pricey for me. I pay so much in taxes I have to make do with steel.


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## paddler

K Lark said:


> being not well edumacated, hunting buddy post could not be better! we shood probally move on from politic cause they don,t agree in dc, and we ain,t either; last things is harold ried is the devil and paddler, this is usaul time of year you start fights with mud motor guys, not about politics;


We could talk about mud motors and the impact they'll have in low water years, but that probably wouldn't go well. It will be an interesting season, that's for sure.

The good thing is that, as somebody said earlier, the Refuge should hold birds.


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## Hoopermat

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## huntingbuddy

paddler213 said:


> Did you vote for Mike Lee?


I didn't vote in 2010.



paddler213 said:


> Wrong. The Republicans shut down the government. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, but facts are facts.


The republicans have given the democrats what they feel they would be able to live with. However the democrats won't give in at all. It's all or nothing with the democrats. It takes two to tango!



paddler213 said:


> You'd rather have Utah manage Federal lands? That's silly.


Yep I would, the state does a better job than the feds do!



paddler213 said:


> Because the government shut down all non-essential services.


Thus not needed to be run by the govt. Leave those services to private business.



paddler213 said:


> They are threatening to blow up the world economy. Do you prefer extortionists? I'll agree to that.


I am not sure what world economy you are talking about. The economy seems to be doing just fine. If you are talking about our economy, it has in fact improved. The stock market jumped, when news of the govt shutdown was announced. Sounds to me like our economy thinks they will be better off without our govt.



paddler213 said:


> Really? I think you should check with the 800,000 employees furloughed, and those having to do without the services they provide. The Refuge comes to mind. I doubt they'd say they are doing just fine.


I feel sorry for those that are out of work. I just finished looking for a new job so I know how hard and tough it can be to find a new one. However they shouldn't be working for an employer that is trillions of dollars in debt. I wouldn't work for an employer that was so unstable, would you? They will make it through! BTW my uncle is one of those effected by the shutdown. His family is doing just fine!



paddler213 said:


> The debt will come down as the economy improves, which it will do with increased government spending. Read some economics, there's a whole world out there besides Fox News.


Haha that is one of the funniest things I have heard you say. Almost as funny as Jeff Foxworthy. I have read economics, a lot of economics. I read probably more than most adults that are my age. Govt spend has never ever got us a better economy ever!!! If it worked, we would already be out of a the great rescission, but we are not and the great depression would not have lasted 15 years!

This may hurt your liberal heart but FDR caused us to go deeper into a depression than we would have and he kept it festering. Neither FDR or the WWII got us out of the great depression. I don't like fox news, and not a huge fan of The Blaze either.

Paddler, the reason we are in this whole mess is because the United States Government is spending more money everyday that they don't have. If we get our govt spending down and within the revenue that the govt makes. Then things like this would not be able to happen. The govt has shutdown because our politicians don't want to see us any deeper in debt. We can't keep raising the limit on the credit card any more. We have to stop spending or this Great Nation will sink and there will be no ACA, Welfare, or BRBR!


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## paddler

Jake, it appears we share broad areas of disagreement.

This was in the Trib today, and I think it explains things well.:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/56954644-82/government-obama-party-republicans.html.csp


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