# Illegal Use of Public Land



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I have been wanting to post this for a while but I was/am unsure of how to address it so I am just going to come out address it.

Last year we tried a new area for bow hunting on the North Slope of the Uintas. I won't say exactly where. We did see a lot of elk and had some success. We drove to the area and found a good place to start so we set up camp and made use of an existing corral. We went up the mountain the next day into the wilderness area to do some scouting and found some good spots and great watering holes that were getting used quite a bit. At a couple of watering holes that we felt would be great for tree stands we looked up into the trees and saw stands that were left there from the previous year. Looking closer we could tell the stands had been there for a few years. On a couple other watering holes we found blinds that were constructed of trees that had been cut down and even found one decoy that was folded up and covered with brush. We marked all of the areas on our GPS and headed back down the hill. The next day we went back up the mountain and found an area that had obviously been used for a few years as a base camp. The fire pit was pretty well established and there were a few log benches that had been built. We spent the rest of the day tagging more spots and trails on our GPS and then rode back down to camp.

On the third morning we slept in a bit and were sitting around making plans for our day and a truck pulled up with a trailer that had three horses in it. The guys started unloading their stuff and we went over to talk to them. They were loading up their gear to head up the mountain to set up camp. They said that they were going to set up camp and then come down that evening and come back to hunt the next week. I looked at their gear and saw that all they were loading up was food and beer. I asked them where the rest of their stuff was at they said that it was already on the mountain. I then asked them where because we didn't want to be covering the same places as them and then they told me where it was, I was also real curious because I felt that we had covered the area pretty already...........It was buried in storage containers on the mountain right at the camp spot that we had found the day earlier. They have been doing it for years. Leaving all of their gear buried on the mountain in boxes that they hauled up years before. Taking up a little more each time. A massive wall tent, stoves, lanterns, sleeping bags, cots, axes.......you name it, it was up there. I was pretty upset that people would do this but didn't voice any frustration because I didn't want a big confrontation. Anyhow, they went up the hill and sure enough that evening they were back down and told us that they were done and that they would be back the next week. They then told us that we were "free to use their area and their camp". One of us made mention that we always were free to use it since it was and is public land. It has never set well with me at all. Public lands are public lands and for anybody to use it in this manner is just wrong in my opinion, let alone a wilderness area.

I have ran across tree stands before that were unused on several occasions hunting. I wouldn't expect people to pack them out every day but I would expect people to remove them and dismantle hunting blinds when they are leaving the area. I especially despise the thought that people think that they can "claim" a hunting area as their own on public land and take the liberty to use it in this manner.

I still have the all of the spots on GPS. I even have two of the guys phone numbers and actually know where one of them works. 

A couple of questions:

1. Do you think I should just notify the authorities of the locations or should I go further than that? I don't want to become a target by anybody but I also want this dealt with in the proper manner. I have even thought about heading up there this spring and hauling it down myself. Probably not much good would come out of that though. Any ideas on the best way to handle this?

2. Do any of you agree with leaving tree stands or other items in the mountains in any way, shape or form?

Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

I use trail cameras up in the mountains, but that is about it. It is hard to say where to draw the line. I have some friends that pack water/food up on the front and store them so they can come back later and hunt that season. I for sure don't like leaving tons of stuff up there, but I'm even doing it with my trail cameras. By the way, I've got some good spots up on the north slope that produce as well and I see similar things going on.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I wonder how they would of taken it if you would of camped in their "spot" and to see the look on their faces when they rode in. 

If they are leaving gear then I think that I would notify the authorities about it. It is one thing to reuse a camp spot over and over and it is another to start leaving equipment behind even if it is buried. Permanent tree stands may be another thing. I have even been known to pull some old ones down just because they look unsafe. But then again it would be first come first served even if they had built them.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

the tree stands were not hand built jobs. They were a few years old and the climbing spikes were left in the trees with a few years of growth around one of them. The guys actually offered for us to use their camp including their tent. They were "making nice" I am sure in the hope that they would not be reported.


----------



## walter sobchak (Jul 3, 2009)

there's spots like that all over the front and they really trash the place. trail cams and tree stands are one thing, but the whole dig your own watering hole throw a billion salt blocks near your trail cam protected by a metal box bolted into the tree with your own private trail to the camp where you've buried some choice camping gear is a little much.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is your call but I am personally getting tired of "campers" that figure that they own the spot that they leave their stuff weather it is a couple of weeks or all season. 

I turned in some trailer squatters one year and they were right back at it the next year. But every little bit helps.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I see this as quite a bit different from the trailer squatters particularly as they offered to let you stay with them. Certainly not the most ethical of moves, but I don't take issue with it. Had you been there in that spot they may have been annoyed, which is not right, but you can use the tree stand and the benches all that you want. I would give them the benefit of the doubt, but I have not faced that personally, so I have a hard time knowing how I would react to the same situation.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Hmm....I guess I figured that people would be more upset about it. I don't understand what is so difficult about moving treestands out of the area when they are not being used. Leaving spikes in the trees year round makes no sense to me.

I really don't have a problem with trail cams. I guess that is where I draw the line. I just have pretty major issues with people storing their hunting gear in the mountains whether it is because they are too lazy to move it or because they feel they are laying claim to the area.


----------



## Bscuderi (Jan 2, 2012)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Hmm....I guess I figured that people would be more upset about it. I don't understand what is so difficult about moving treestands out of the area when they are not being used. Leaving spikes in the trees year round makes no sense to me.
> 
> I really don't have a problem with trail cams. I guess that is where I draw the line. I just have pretty major issues with people storing their hunting gear in the mountains whether it is because they are too lazy to move it or because they feel they are laying claim to the area.


I think u got it right here the storing of supplies is very excessive pack in pack out


----------



## highcountryfever (Aug 24, 2009)

Isn't there a law about personal property being left on public ground for X amount of days, and then it is considered abandoned?


----------



## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

I don't know much about the situation, like huge said I haven't faced it personally. People leave tree stands behind everywhere, it's just one of those things that's always going to happen. I wouldn't ever do it, and I would ask the person if they could take it down, but I'm not sure I would report it. Especially if they even offered it's use to me. I'm not even sure I take much offense to the idea of burying equipment. As long as it's out of sight and doesn't disturb anything, and they are flexible as to where to put it, I don't think I have a problem. If they had come up and said hey, this is our spot, get the hell out, than yeah, I could see an issue. I have a huge problem with people laying claim to public lands, but it sounds like they just do it to save some time. The stashed decoy and permanent tree stand are the two that get me the most. If they wanna bury their **** and take the risk of it getting stolen I say let em. But like I said, I wasn't there to see it in person.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I can see things both ways but I still don't believe in leaving things in the mountains whether it is buried or not. It is a form to me of laying claim to an area. Worst case scenario a hunter or group of hunters goes to an area that they find on their own, find an existing fire pit and good spot to set up camp, do so and three days later another group comes to the same spot and uncovers a bunch of gear that they have been storing there for years. Chances are, not much good is going to come out of the situation. I believe in first come, first serve as long as everything is done within the written law.

I know a guy (hunter A) that found a new spot for himself to hunt at on the south slope, ran into another hunter (hunter B) that told him that it was his area. Hunter A was there first that year. Hunter B said that he didn't care because it was his honey hole that he had been hunting the spot for years and he wasn't going to give it up. Hunter A stayed put, hobbled his mules and went hunting on foot. Hunter A came back a few hours later and found that the throats of his two mules had been slit and they were lying dead. Hunter B was nowhere to be found. Extreme I know but it did happen.

I have emailed the forest service to find out the specific regulations regarding storage of personal equipment.


----------



## Last Man Standing (Dec 7, 2011)

I believe it. People are freaking crazy, and hunting can be a very heated issue, I've heard of people threatening to kill others if they don't stay off of "their" public land. I bet ya your email comes back with something similar to what highcountryfever said, If left for a certain amount of time it's free game. Hell, I'm not saying I condone it, but if that's what the Forest service says then you could legally go dig up a free wall tent and a bunch of gear.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

What was the outcome of all this?


----------



## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

highcountryfever said:


> Isn't there a law about personal property being left on public ground for X amount of days, and then it is considered abandoned?


Soooo....what I'm hearing here is that a nice big wall tent and a bunch of camping gear is up for grabs, along with some cool containers to stash it in. If you PM me the GPS location of this stuff, I'll take care of it for you.

Edit: Ahhhh, crap! I just realized this was a resurrected thread from three years ago.

Edit edit: I bet Muleskinner has a nice wall tent now.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Last Man Standing said:


> I believe it. People are freaking crazy, and hunting can be a very heated issue, I've heard of people threatening to kill others if they don't stay off of "their" public land. I bet ya your email comes back with something similar to what highcountryfever said, If left for a certain amount of time it's free game. Hell, I'm not saying I condone it, but if that's what the Forest service says then you could legally go dig up a free wall tent and a bunch of gear.


You gave me an idea for a reality show Hunting/Fishing fights.

This week: Idaho man Craig with mining rights closes a road to access to his public land. Hunter Steve a retired boxer/MMA fighter parks his vehicle in front of the gate. Craig is hooking the toe chains to Steve's truck as Steve approaches. Before they fight the question is asked "How long will Craig last?"

Next Week: Steve takes on Henry's lake on memorial day

The Week following: Steve goes Steelhead fishing

I think this could be a great idea, maybe even if before they fight Ashton Kutcher jumps out and says "You've been punked."

I think I have a gold mine here.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Jedidiah said:


> Soooo....what I'm hearing here is that a nice big wall tent and a bunch of camping gear is up for grabs, along with some cool containers to stash it in. If you PM me the GPS location of this stuff, I'll take care of it for you.
> 
> Edit: Ahhhh, crap! I just realized this was a resurrected thread from three years ago.
> 
> Edit edit: I bet Muleskinner has a nice wall tent now.


Unless one of draws out our LE tag this year we will be hunting this same spot. Last year my brother drew the Wasatch premium tag so we hunted the Wasatch.

I have a tent but not theirs. Stealing is not part of makeup whether it is left "abandoned" or not. No way would I give the location of the gear either unless it was to the Forest Service. Hopefully they have moved the stuff out this year but we will be checking if they did for sure.


----------



## trackerputnam (Dec 21, 2014)

I have run into this situation one time a few years ago! It is a spot that we have hunted several times over maybe twenty years. In fact it is a spot where when I was guiding, we took refuge during a sudden blizzard. We spent the night there. 

So we arrived at this spot and set up camp. During set up we found a few items hidden here and there. We got to looking closer and found quite a bit of stuff. Was obvious the gear had wintered over. We did find some water in bottles that looked new. We used some of the gear in our camp set up but mostly it was a curiosity. Towards the end of our hunt, a couple of guys show up looking to camp there. It was their stuff we were using. We told them we would be leaving in a couple of days, but they were welcome to set up what they could as long as it did not interfere with our camp. They moved off somewhere and came back and gathered what we were not using. The rest we piled up where we found it and I assume they came and got it later.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

highcountryfever said:


> Isn't there a law about personal property being left on public ground for X amount of days, and then it is considered abandoned?


Actually there is. USFS mandates that private property (tents, RV's, travel trailers, treestands, etc) be moved every 14 days.

I would let the forest service know and let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## goonsquad (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm amazed that the USFS doesn't enforce the 14 day limit. They could make a mint on trailers left on the mountain. See the same **** jackass campers every single year in the same **** spots. All summer and fall long. Rarely see anyone at their sites.


----------



## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

goonsquad said:


> I'm amazed that the USFS doesn't enforce the 14 day limit. They could make a mint on trailers left on the mountain. See the same **** jackass campers every single year in the same **** spots. All summer and fall long. Rarely see anyone at their sites.


I must admit to being somewhat ignorant on this topic. I am curious how they would enforce a 14 day limit. Would the USFS have to go out into the field and take inventory many times per year, cross check the lists, and then go back (yet again) and somehow issue a ticket or impound the object?


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

All they would have to do is a drive through and document license plate numbers with a GPS location and a date. Then go back through 14 days later. Same trailer=ticket, go back 7 days later and tow it if it is still in the same spot.

This is one of my pet peeves. I don't mind someone camping but don't homestead.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Critter said:


> All they would have to do is a drive through and document license plate numbers with a GPS location and a date. Then go back through 14 days later. Same trailer=ticket, go back 7 days later and tow it if it is still in the same spot.
> 
> This is one of my pet peeves. I don't mind someone camping but don't homestead.


That is exactly what they do. A guy we know was asked to move his travel trailer during an elk hunt after it had been there for a little too long. He only had to move it to a new location, so he just put it next to our camp.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

High Desert Elk said:


> That is exactly what they do. A guy we know was asked to move his travel trailer during an elk hunt after it had been there for a little too long. He only had to move it to a new location, so he just put it next to our camp.


Neither the USFS or BLM do it enough to let people know that they need to move their trailers every 14 days or whatever the areas management plan is. I can show you BLM land that trailer owners basically homestead the place from the time that snow is gone until after the deer hunt. I have even reported them to the BLM with no one ever showing up to check them.


----------



## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Critter said:


> All they would have to do is a drive through and document license plate numbers with a GPS location and a date. Then go back through 14 days later. Same trailer=ticket, go back 7 days later and tow it if it is still in the same spot.
> 
> This is one of my pet peeves. I don't mind someone camping but don't homestead.


Sounds pretty labor intensive, especially for smaller items like game cameras and such.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

massmanute said:


> Sounds pretty labor intensive, especially for smaller items like game cameras and such.


I believe that we are talking about trailers and campers.

Game cameras just may be picked up by either agency if they see them in the forest or hanging on a post by a water hole.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

You guys are correct in that they do not do it enough. But when they do it, they either ask them to relocate or cite them. It is labor intensive and the government isn't necessarily interested in being efficient at times.

I had forest rangers tell me one time in a meeting involving work that anything is supposed to be moved, treestands, cameras, anything. They also said there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Campsites are the ones they focus on because that is the heavily public used areas. A treestand (unless specifically on a water hole or natural mineral source) usually does not interfere most of the public using USFS or BLM lands.


----------



## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

I turned in a homesteader in a few years back on the left hand of the Blacksmith that had been there for a few months and not on private land. nothing happened- I called it back in and said there is a sewage tube leading to the river. 2 days later it was still there- I clogged the tube with 5 tube fitting rocks- it was gone the next weekend.


----------

