# Swan season closed



## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

They have met the Trumpeter swan quota again this season. Swan closes at sundown today Friday Nov. 26


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Excellent. 
I wonder who the lucky 20 were?


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

I wonder how many have unfilled tags because of the 20.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Simple solution............Close Public Shooting Grounds to swan hunting. Never had a closure until they allowed hunting there once again 3 years ago.


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## Wire (Nov 2, 2017)

I didn't fill my tag. Both my kids filled theirs. I agree with fowl, they need to close public and it wouldn't be shut down.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

I witnessed the absurd spectacle at Howard’s Slough yesterday. What a bunch of dinks. Seen a lone trumpeter get shot at by every group of hunters all the way around the pond even though it was over 100 yards from the dikes. Sad that my boy and I didn’t fill our tags but I’m relieved that a lot of the morons will stay home now.


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## Tail Chaser (Oct 25, 2021)

Glad my brother in law and I filled ours. I feel like the DWR didn't keep everyone informed enough on the numbers. It wouldn't have changed anything, but I only received one email and that was when they were at 10 birds. I agree with others on here. Public needs to be closed down. Never had a problem until they opened it back up. The other problem is there is nothing stopping people from shooting them. A quota doesn't mean anything to the people shooting them as long as they fill their tag. I understand if one comes in quiet how can you really tell, specially pass shooting. I now decoy mine in and it is way better than all the years I would pass shoot. I see both sides of the situation, but if they want people to stop shooting them closing public would help with that. Also, if you keep the quota that is fine, but add a fee to it. It doesn't have to be super high, just enough to get people to think about it. I know accidents happen, but if you aren't certain then maybe don't shoot. I am not against shooting trumpeters because it isn't illegal, but it does suck for those that have limited time and haven't filled tags yet.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The thing with charging a fee or having a waiting period if you shoot a Trumpeter, is nobody will report their birds. Hell, if I shot a Trumpeter now I wouldn’t report it. I wouldn’t want to be one of the 20 douche bags that gets it closed.


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## Papa Moses (Sep 27, 2018)

Me:
Take a break from pheasants to hunt swans Saturday

Utah Swan Hunt:
Let’s close on Friday 

on the bright side I’ve killed 15 Roosters this year


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## Tail Chaser (Oct 25, 2021)

Fowlmouth said:


> The thing with charging a fee or having a waiting period if you shoot a Trumpeter, is nobody will report their birds. Hell, if I shot a Trumpeter now I wouldn’t report it. I wouldn’t want to be one of the 20 douche bags that gets it closed.


I fully agree with you fowlmouth! I actually had this conversation with my dad about it. Like you said if I shot one I wouldn't turn it in for the fact I wouldn't want to close the season for others. I bet even with tundra swans there are people that don't report them. I am not going to lie once you shoot one it can be a hassle to get it checked. They are never open or around it seems when I kill one, and I live just over an hour away from the check station the DWR office is 55 minutes from where I live. So it does suck sometimes after killing a swan to get it there.
I don't think there is a fool proof method for the trumpeter closure issue, but it does seem like they are getting targeted more.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I don’t think they are being specifically targeted as much as most fantasize about it. I think most get killed by guys who know what is it, but kill them because of the situational opportunity, not on purpose.

waiting periods or fines for killing trumpeters will result in swans being planted in mud or not checked in. It’s happening right now it’s not illegal to kill one yet.

the biggest issue for me on the deal, is there’s an outfitter right now, guiding for them on public land who shot one. This is a guy who collects income from hunters annually, sees thousands of birds up close and shot one anyways. If there’s anyone out there who can identify them before it gets shot, it’s him. That’s where the bigger issue is. Not random people shooting a swan that flew over them that turned out to be a trump


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

If they closed PSG, I would hope they drop the # of tags back to where they were at before they did open PSG three years ago. I can only imagen the crowds in the swamps if they closed it down. It would look like Lagoon on opening day with the crowds. 

Four years ago I could have busted a small group of Trumpeters that came into the decoys. I didn't, and as they glided for the next hunters set up behind us with their swan setup....I watched three fall from the air and crash land in the water. It isn't illegal to kill them, just not recommended.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I think they need to raise the quota to 30 or 40. There are plenty of trumpeters. You see more and more of them each year. 

They either need to raise the quota or remove public from the hunt area. 

But, Meat, I don’t understand your logic. Killing 20 trumpeters would harm an outfitters ability to earn income and it’s happened two years in a row. If the outfitter shot one I say good for him. It is not illegal. One hunter is not closing this hunt early. It’s the culmination of 40 people in two years shooting a trumpeter. 


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

silentstalker said:


> I think they need to raise the quota to 30 or 40. There are plenty of trumpeters. You see more and more of them each year.
> 
> They either need to raise the quota or remove public from the hunt area.
> 
> ...


This is actually the 3rd year the trump quota has been met. The outfitter doing it is more of an ethics thing, especially when you take into account that the bird in question was shot the last couple days of the season and definitely was one of last couple checked in to shut it down. They need to be the example, not the problem, particularly when they started some other issues that were in the spotlight earlier this year that ruffled some feathers. As far as the actual trumpeters being shot, it’s not so much the birds coming from Alaska or Canada that are the concern. It’s the Yellowstone birds nesting and coming from Montana and surrounding areas that are the worry. They are much more threatened than the others from what I understand.

it’s a simple fix. Remove PSG from the hunt area. There’s a reason it was axed for awhile. This issue is as much on the DWR and feds as it is on the guys pulling the trigger


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

There was some interesting discussion on this in the recent northern region RAC meeting, regarding where the trumpeters are being shot and where they are coming from. I'd recommend giving it a listen. It's early on in the meeting, when RAC members ask question after the regional update.

They mentioned that PSG is part of the problem but definitely not the only factor. Lots of trumpeters are being shot at BRBR and some further south.

The bigger issue is that we have more coming through the state than we used to. They are doing isotope testing on feathers from the trumpeters coming into the check stations, and have found that most are coming from Alaska (which is not a population of concern). Of course, that doesn't prevent the quota from screwing the hunt up.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

That is very interesting. If the majority of trumpeters shot are not Yellowstone birds than I see no reason they couldn’t increase the quota. That is real data not speculation or assumption. I am interested what they continue to find out as they gather more data. 

Meat, I respect what you’re saying. Guides and Outfitters should definitely set the example. As we see in the big game world especially here in Utah, that is often not the case. 

I personally feel like it’s the same as a quota on female lions or sow bears. It’s not illegal to shoot one in some units but the hunts are shut down to protect the resource once a certain number is hit. So, I feel no animosity towards someone who tags a sow or trumpeter. It’s all part of game management and we do not help our cause by infighting amongst ourselves. 

Now if it were a case of poaching, heck, I will grab my pitchfork and go on the hunt to prosecute!


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Its to bad that the Biologists in the northern states are not more aggressive on banding trumpeters. The data collected from banded trumps would be helpful to see where they actually come from.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

When I first started waterfowl hunting, I heard they spray painted or dye the underside of Trumpeters wings red. Anyone ever see or hear this?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Fowlmouth said:


> When I first started waterfowl hunting, I heard they spray painted or dye the underside of Trumpeters wings red. Anyone ever see or hear this?


I’ve seen videos where they put bands on each leg, bright collars on the neck and a big bright orange or yellow numbered wing tag, visible on both sides of the wing, to help hunters identify trumpeters more easily… that might work great until they cross the utah border. Then it becomes a death sentence.

never seen or heard about the paint idea. But wouldn’t surprise me if they did try it


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> When I first started waterfowl hunting, I heard they spray painted or dye the underside of Trumpeters wings red. Anyone ever see or hear this?


Yes, That was in the late 90's. They dye marked the first Trumpeters brought down from Yellowstone and released at Bear River in an effort to get the Yellowstone birds to migrate to Utah. The dye mark was so they could keep track of them from a distance.


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

Seems like more than coincidence that they opened PSG three years ago, and the season has closed early the last three years in a row. Prior to the first time 3 years ago, in my recollection it had never been closed before.

I remember the dyed/painted birds, and saw them once.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

They should close PSG. I didn't understand why there would be pushback from the Division on the issue. It was even offered to close PSG once half the quota had been met.
The negative press will become a problem-- if anyone read the SL Trib article which was picked up and pushed across the country by various sites.


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## stick&string89 (Jun 21, 2012)

Keep public shooting grounds open .Trumpeters are not illegal to kill. I know I will hopefully be looking for one next year to go on the wall. Swans have been in for weeks and people should have taken the opportunity earlier in the season to chase swans. We got a nice big trumpeter this year and it was not at public. I heard several today on the south end of the refuge. 
As long as they aren’t illegal to shoot you can’t fault someone for taking an opportunity to shoot a trump if it presents its self. But to each their own. 


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

stick&string89 said:


> Keep public shooting grounds open .Trumpeters are not illegal to kill. I know I will hopefully be looking for one next year to go on the wall. Swans have been in for weeks and people should have taken the opportunity earlier in the season to chase swans. We got a nice big trumpeter this year and it was not at public. I heard several today on the south end of the refuge.
> As long as they aren’t illegal to shoot you can’t fault someone for taking an opportunity to shoot a trump if it presents its self. But to each their own.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dee Dee Dee, that’s my boy.

I love the entitlement you and those who think like you have.

It’s not illegal YET,


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I agree with Packout - given that the season has had to close early 3 years running AND this never happened prior to the opening of PSG, it would seem that the low hanging fruit would be to close it down again so that opportunity to hunt is gained and not lost. If I remember correctly from the DWR's presentation, PSG accounts for 40% or so of the Trumps killed. Personally, I like the idea of a waiting period if you kill a Trump. Like Stick&String89 just illustrated, people ARE targeting Trumps for their walls, and I don't believe that many are going to stomp their trophy in the mud if they are assessed a waiting period for shooting one. It will just be part of the game that is played.

It's not hard to follow and I'm not sure why the DWR had such heartache about closing down PSG. It's pretty obvious that PSG and Trumps are closely linked. Not to hijack the thread here, but it's the same with the draw elk recommendation. There was plenty of time to pick up an any bull tag BEFORE they instituted the multiseason tags. It would seem getting rid of the multiseason tags or capping them at a lower number would be the low hanging fruit to alleviate the pressure on tag numbers. But then again, obvious to some is not so obvious to others...


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## stick&string89 (Jun 21, 2012)

1BandMan said:


> Dee Dee Dee, that’s my boy.
> 
> I love the entitlement you and those who think like you have.
> 
> It’s not illegal YET,


It’s not entitlement it’s playing within the rules. I spoke with a co who indicated that they are hoping to get rid of the swan check once they can verify where the trumpeters are coming from. It’s simple if people are concerned about the season closing they need to get out early. 


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

If they can verify that the trumpeters migrating thru UT are from the non-threatened populations in AK or elsewhere, that will be a good thing. Until that day though, even if it's legal to shoot a trumpeter, maybe it would be better not to if you can tell the difference?

During a friend's moose hunt this fall, he could have legally killed his bull in front of 40 or 50 "tourists". Could have walked right thru the crowd with his rifle and dropped the bull in front of everyone their thoughts and opinions be dammed. Perfectly legal, BUT not the best move from a perception or PR side. I see alot of similarities with the swan hunt as it relates to trumpeters. Just because a person "can" doesn't make it the best option.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I think the whole idea of the Trumpeter swan quota has always been for those who mistakenly shoot one. I don’t believe the quota is in place for hunters to specifically target them. Guy’s sure seem to be proud these days to be in the “20 Club” and proud they helped get the season closed early.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MWScott72 said:


> If they can verify that the trumpeters migrating thru UT are from the non-threatened populations in AK or elsewhere, that will be a good thing. Until that day though, even if it's legal to shoot a trumpeter, maybe it would be better not to if you can tell the difference?
> 
> During a friend's moose hunt this fall, he could have legally killed his bull in front of 40 or 50 "tourists". Could have walked right thru the crowd with his rifle and dropped the bull in front of everyone their thoughts and opinions be dammed. Perfectly legal, BUT not the best move from a perception or PR side. I see alot of similarities with the swan hunt as it relates to trumpeters. Just because a person "can" doesn't make it the best option.


Sorry but shooting a moose in front of a bunch of sight seers to witness isn’t the same as someone shooting a trumpeter miles away from the nearest bird watchers. At least in my opinion, that matters to no one.

I don’t have issues with trumps being shot. I’ve shot 2, one was unintentional, one on purpose and saw another shot over my decoys which was also unintentional. Quotas are in place for a reason. Quotas being met is a good thing I think. It shows populations are increasing, which is what everyone who cares about wildlife should have as their goal. 20 birds isn’t going to impact the over all stability of the species. 3 nesting pairs with a successful hatch can cover that number in a single year. Obviously that will take place, so there’s really no negative biological issue or impact.

this really shouldn’t be that big of a deal… if only guys cared about the number of does and 2 points being killed annually as they do trumpeter swans, we might get that train wreck stopped and turned back around.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

MooseMeat said:


> I don’t think they are being specifically targeted as much as most fantasize about it. I think most get killed by guys who know what is it, but kill them because of the situational opportunity, not on purpose.
> 
> waiting periods or fines for killing trumpeters will result in swans being planted in mud or not checked in. It’s happening right now it’s not illegal to kill one yet.
> 
> the biggest issue for me on the deal, is there’s an outfitter right now, guiding for them on public land who shot one. This is a guy who collects income from hunters annually, sees thousands of birds up close and shot one anyways. If there’s anyone out there who can identify them before it gets shot, it’s him. That’s where the bigger issue is. Not random people shooting a swan that flew over them that turned out to be a trump


Not only guides targeting them, but DWR employees doing the same.


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## Papa Moses (Sep 27, 2018)

If they got rid of the quota or made it illegal to kill a trumpeter, there would be several each season ditched in the weeds or wasted some other way to avoid a fine. I think the quota is the best way. And for those like me who never filled the tag this season-
SUCKS TO SUCK :/


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't keep up with the swan hunt. But I'm curious about something. 

Anybody have the number total of killed tundra's from this year? Or a close estimate? How many tags are available to be drawn a year?

I guess the trumpeter total was 20?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

JerryH said:


> I don't keep up with the swan hunt. But I'm curious about something.
> 
> Anybody have the number total of killed tundra's from this year? Or a close estimate? How many tags are available to be drawn a year?
> 
> I guess the trumpeter total was 20?


Tags available is 2750. Success is usually around 50% on a year that stays open the whole season


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

A different perspective 

Swan permits
2,750 ÷ 2 if 50% success rate?
=1,375 
- 300 permits to nonhunters? Just a guess?
=1,075
-20 trumpeters shot
=1,055 

20 guys saved the lives of 1,055 tundra swans?  

But then there is the wounded & not retrieved factor. God only knows what that is?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I love hunting swans and have killed nearly all of mine before most would consider it “prime time” for swans. I have a hard time thinking we need to restrict a season further … 

Let’s say this was an elk hunt and once x amount of elk were killed, the season shut down. How many hunters would be crying fowl and want areas in the unit closed down that held elk to lengthen out the season?


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

The rules are completely based on avoiding the harvest of trumpeter’s.
To purposely ignore the rules with full intentions of breaking the rules_ is most certainly entitlement.
Irresponsible actions will force their hand in some way if the rules continue to be broken to the extent of the boundaries are regularly broken.
If you can’t police yourself then someone will step in and do it for you.
I’ll bet your the kinda guy who b!tches about all the laws that are in place and goes apesh!t when people are forced to shut areas and activities down.
You and everyone who thinks like you are poster boys for that reason._


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

MooseMeat said:


> Sorry but shooting a moose in front of a bunch of sight seers to witness isn’t the same as someone shooting a trumpeter miles away from the nearest bird watchers. At least in my opinion, that matters to no one.


My point was not to try and equate my two examples as equal but to illustrate that just because it's legal doesn't mean you should do it or that it's right. Those that knowingly are targeting trumpeters are also knowingly thumbing their noses at every other hunter that has drawn a tag to kill a swan. "I'll get mine...screw the rest of you" mentality. A microcosm of our society's attitude in general these days? 

I have no issue with someone accidentally shooting a trumpeter. It's not illegal to do so. The point has been made though that if we fail to police ourselves, then others will do it for us.

Exhibit A...season closed early, opportunity to fill tags lost.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

MWScott72 said:


> My point was not to try and equate my two examples as equal but to illustrate that just because it's legal doesn't mean you should do it or that it's right. Those that knowingly are targeting trumpeters are also knowingly thumbing their noses at every other hunter that has drawn a tag to kill a swan. "I'll get mine...screw the rest of you" mentality. A microcosm of our society's attitude in general these days?
> 
> I have no issue with someone accidentally shooting a trumpeter. It's not illegal to do so. The point has been made though that if we fail to police ourselves, then others will do it for us.
> 
> Exhibit A...season closed early, opportunity to fill tags lost.


We’ve had plenty of opportunities to fill tags. Duck hunters in general are trash. The lowest form of hunters there is. Policing themselves doesn’t even cross their minds


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

MooseMeat said:


> We’ve had plenty of opportunities to fill tags. Duck hunters in general are trash. The lowest form of hunters there is. Policing themselves doesn’t even cross their minds


Shawn 
Did you used to post over at flocknockers?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I don’t have an issue with anyone killing trumpeters. I also don’t have an issue with the season closing down early. At this point, if you’re waiting until the end of the season to head out and it gets closed before you do, that’s kind of on you. We know what is going to happen at this point. As long as things stay as they are, the swan season is going to close early. The quota is imposed to allow us to have a swan hunt at all. The only thing I worry about is as more and more people shoot trumpeters, does that put our swan hunt in the crosshairs entirely? But overall, I’m not bothered by any of it. It’s all allowed and there are checks put in place to balance it all out. 


What does bother me is how many people seem to supportively acknowledge how many people willfully ignore the law. We’re supposed to be the good guys. It’s embarrassing how many people think it’s okay to not follow the law while hunting. I would support a lifetime ban on hunting for anyone that does not check in their bird as required by law. And not just a ban on swan hunting. A lifetime ban on all hunting. It makes me sick how some people are so entitled and lack any sense of decency that stomping a swan into the mud or actively concealing you’ve killed a trumpeter is a good thing, no less even okay. I will openly acknowledge failing to report your bird is not equivalent to stomping one (or 5) into the mud. Not even close. But every single time any of this happens, it hurts our cause. 

The single biggest threat to our hunting heritage is not anti-hunters. It’s the dirt balls in our own ranks. Tell your friends or hunting partners to be better!


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

JerryH said:


> Shawn
> Did you used to post over at flocknockers?


Never heard of it


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I can guarantee that every hunter that checked in a Trumpeter asked “what’s the count at now”? Don’t be fooled, they are proud of their accomplishment of getting the season closed early.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Raise the trumpeter quota to 40 and only have the season every other year. Oh ya.... Give out 5,500 tags for the draw. That way the swamp can look like the Utah GS Deer Hunt.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> That way the swamp can look like the Utah GS Deer Hunt.


It already does. Hunter orange and everything.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

People keep talking about raising the quota. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought this was a federal quota, not something the DWR and state can do. 

If so…good luck!


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> People keep talking about raising the quota. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought this was a federal quota, not something the DWR and state can do.
> 
> If so…good luck!


Lots of People don’t understand that migratory birds are managed by a state and federal law. They think it’s just the state that determines hunting regs for waterfowl. DWR has their hands tied for these hunts. They can make recommendations on a state level for method of take, etc… but limits and quotas are recommended by the feds.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

MooseMeat said:


> It already does. Hunter orange and everything.


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