# Baiting in Utah Illegal??



## Bowhunter50 (Oct 14, 2014)

I was under the impression that baiting is illegal in Utah. There is clearly a pile of apples or something in this video. Not much anyone can do at this point. They probably don't know it's illegal if they're posting a video... 




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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

What page of the guidebook deals with baiting for big game? 🤔 

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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

It's not illegal in UT. That was a big buck.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

AF CYN said:


> It's not illegal in UT. That was a big buck.


That's what I was getting at. Probably a good idea to check the actual regulations before calling a guy out on the internet as doing something illegal. That was a very big buck.

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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Despite common belief there is no law prohibiting it. I dont think there has ever been a law about it, maybe people get confused with laws of other states??


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## Bowhunter50 (Oct 14, 2014)

Ok my mistake. For some reason I thought it was illegal! At least we get to enjoy a cool video out of it. 


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

What I find odd, is that it's illegal to bait upland birds and turkeys, but it's not illegal to bait big game. I'm indifferent either way, but don't understand why it's ok for one and not the other.

Another rule that doesn't make any sense is the transportation via aircraft law. I know the "people are going to chase and find animals from the air," story, but the DNR could allow aircraft travel and then not allow hunting within a certain timeframe of landing. I watched a Randy Newburg video where he flew into some landlocked public property and killed a good bull - it was pretty cool.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Oh yeah...that Newberg video got me to thinking...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

CPAjeff said:


> Another rule that doesn't make any sense is the transportation via aircraft law. I know the "people are going to chase and find animals from the air," story, but the DNR could allow aircraft travel and then not allow hunting within a certain timeframe of landing. I watched a Randy Newburg video where he flew into some landlocked public property and killed a good bull - it was pretty cool.


It is illegal to do it the same day, you have to wait 48 hours after you fly in.

Use of vehicle or aircraft
Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-14
You may not use an airplane, drone or
any other airborne vehicle or device, or any
motorized terrestrial or aquatic vehicle (except a
vessel)-including snowmobiles and other recreational
vehicles-to take protected wildlife,
including big game.
Also, you may not take protected wildlife
that are being chased, harmed, harassed, ral-
lied, herded, flushed, pursued or moved by an
aircraft or any other vehicle or transportation
device.
In addition, you may not use any type of
aircraft, from 48 hours before any big game
hunt begins through 48 hours after any big
game hunting season ends, to perform any of
the following activities:
• Transport a hunter or hunting equipment
into a hunting area
• Transport a big game carcass
• Locate, or attempt to observe or locate,
any protected wildlife
Flying slowly at low altitudes, or hovering,
circling or repeatedly flying over an area where
protected wildlife is likely to be found, may
be used as evidence that you've violated the
restrictions


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

It's not just waiting 48 hours before you hunt. You can't do it 48 hours before the season starts.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Critter said:


> In addition, you may not use any type of
> aircraft, from 48 hours before any big game
> hunt begins through 48 hours after any big
> game hunting season ends, to perform any of
> ...


Yep, Vanilla nailed it. Yahoo, top of the page!


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

it also says "any big game hunt" , so even if yours is over someone elses' just started august 1 through jan 31 

the easy part is getting there. its the getting back with the carcass that breaks the law


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

but as far as baiting, heres my thoughts with salt blocks 

yes salt block do attract animals , BUT ... i think too many people do it. so, by the time the hunts start for everyone the animals lips are chapped and cracked all to hell, that just doesnt keep them there , 

if you look at most of the game camera footage you will see ... initially the salt gets hammered hard for the 1st week or 2 right after it is first found. but, then dies off after that ...if you use that for the "potential" bull strategy that will serve a purpose. but , if you are the guy that sets a blind or treestand on a salt block i believe more often than not you will be disappointed 

there is absolutely no reason to get a trail camera in camo if you drop a 50lb bright white block within 20 ft of it , gotta put trail cams on your trail cams on your trail cams


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> Another rule that doesn't make any sense is the transportation via aircraft law. I know the "people are going to chase and find animals from the air," story, but the DNR could allow aircraft travel and then not allow hunting within a certain timeframe of landing. I watched a Randy Newburg video where he flew into some landlocked public property and killed a good bull - it was pretty cool.


I think it would be opening a can of worms. Imagine guys flying in and ruining someone elses hunt. I believe that's why it says 48 hours before any opening big game hunt. I'd hate to be backpacking in somewhere only to see someone rent a chopper and fly in right near me. Or guys flying the mountain left and right to scout and spooking animals. Imagine the guides and big dollar tags etc...


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

utahgolf said:


> I think it would be opening a can of worms. Imagine guys flying in and ruining someone elses hunt. I believe that's why it says 48 hours before any opening big game hunt. I'd hate to be backpacking in somewhere only to see someone rent a chopper and fly in right near me. Or guys flying the mountain left and right to scout and spooking animals. Imagine the guides and big dollar tags etc...


I totally agree that there would be roadblocks and downsides of allowing helicopters/planes to drop off and pick up hunters. However, I don't think that having spotters on every ridge, guys camped on animals for weeks before their client comes in, and roads being blocked by certain outfits isn't already a huge can of worms...


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I think the aircraft thing is easily simplified, just match what is in Alaska. No helicopters, wait 24-48 hrs/next day etc. Limit aircraft to require a minimum airstrip length to land/takeoff. I think if you looked into it, there are not very many places you could land a small plane in Utah that you couldn't just as easily drive there. Finding a proper airstrip to land often means landing miles from where you want to be, and Utah just doesn't have the same size of lakes, rivers, gravel bars/etc that you find in Alaska, Idaho panhandle, or parts of Montana where fly-in hunting happens regularly. I really think it is a non-issue for Utah.

Helicopters, now that is an entirely different beast and I'm ok with prohibiting their use for hunting.

As for the scouting from the air concerns, it is pretty easy to tell when a plane is trying to find animals: low and slow, circling, etc. This is illegal in AK, as is communicating with someone on the ground from the air re animal locations (restarts the same-day no hunting wait period). If you see a plane doing that, call it in preferably with the tail numbers or at least a description of what the plane looks like. There aren't too many small planes in Utah and it is an easy thing to look up flight plans and charge somebody with a violation. But that would require proper enforcement of the laws...and Utah <sarcasm/> always </sarcasm> enforces the regs...


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

I disagree as far as salt licks go. I run a lot of game cameras (get paid to do this for my job). (Disclaimer I live out of state but grew up here and frequent and follow the forum- Gary Fish can vouch for me) I test a boatload from different brands. I'll tell you that I don't put a camera out without something for the critters to get at. I've got some salt licks that are several years old and have the same critters coming every year. 

Utah has surprisingly lax big game baiting laws and having been to several states and very familiar with all states laws, I'm surprised that more folks don't do it. 

As far as salt licks go, the biggest mistakes that folks make is that they don't put out something on the salt lick to attract the critters to the site. They come for the food and stay for the salt/mineral. The other part is that most people put out salt/mineral too late in the year. The minute a critter drops antlers is when new ones start growing. Supplementing minerals is really helpful and important for herd health. Critters will use minerals in their bodies and bones so stay alive. This winter has been particularly tough on critters and nutrition will be key. They'll use calcium from their bodies to stay alive. all of that calcium that was depleted will need to be replaced before good antler growth happens. I'd say that we'd want to keep them plum full of nutrients so that the critters are healthy going into the winter. I'm not talking about feeding critters. I'm talking about managing herd health. 

I've got a lot of pictures from great animals on public ground because of salt licks and mineral stations. I get over double the pics on cameras that are on a mineral site/salt lick/feed station compared to cameras on trails and water holes. Magic is a mineral station next to a water hole.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

The first thing I do when I get into my place in the spring is put out the mineral licks 
and put the trail cams up. Before I even get there the elk have dug holes in the dirt 
where the salt had been the year before. The licks draw them in for sure. 

It's legal to bait in Utah, but the ethics have been questioned by some.......
I am not knocking doing it. There may have been an apple or two fall on the ground at my place.
Just saying.........


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

It most likely is soon to be illegal in utah. I believe this topic is on the wildlife board meetings agenda coming up.to discuss banning baiting for big game in utah


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

What would be the reasoning? The reason baiting isn't big in Utah is the agriculture anyway. why put corn out when you have a 200 acre field of alfalfa? Who wants to carry 40 lbs of corn into the backcountry? That would last maybe a week.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

caddis8 said:


> What would be the reasoning?


Too many people becoming master baiters in the woods would be my guess.

And top of the page!!!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

caddis8 said:


> What would be the reasoning? The reason baiting isn't big in Utah is the agriculture anyway. why put corn out when you have a 200 acre field of alfalfa? Who wants to carry 40 lbs of corn into the backcountry? That would last maybe a week.


I doubt that anyone would pack any kind of feed into the back country, but I know of a few spots where hunters camp close to a water source, then then place some kind of feed around the water and wait. They will then shoot their buck or two from lawn chairs next to their trailer and then head home.

This is one reason I would like to see them do something about the baiting laws.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Please don't read into the question any further than an honest question.

The state in which I reside does not allow baiting. That said, if folks wait by water with some bait in lawn chairs, does that make their hunt and deer worth less than someone who doesn't do that as long as it is lawful? May not be your preferred method, but does that and should that change their preferred method?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

My biggest gripe about is is that they homestead in the camping spot for a month so that they can get it. They pull into it during the bow hunt and leave their trailer there until they shoot their deer. And yes I have reported them. One other thing that they are doing is shooting across a road, and yes I have reported this also and the local officer has talked to them but can't do anything about it unless they catch them.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I find it interesting that using apples, corn, or whatever has always been labeled as questionable from the "ethics" police, but nobody bats and eye at salt and mineral licks. 

Don't they accomplish the exact same thing? Why is one "bad baiting" and another "good baiting?" Any master baiters that derekp1999 was talking about out there able to explain the difference? If this is on the Wildlife Board's agenda to make baiting illegal, will they ban the use of licks? Or will this just be other baits they arbitrarily say are bad? 

I say it's arbitrary, but if I'm missing something, please point it out. I'm not real educated on this issue, to be totally honest.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Vanilla,
My experience with this is in the product development and sales side. From my experience, salt licks don't get hit much after velvet is shed and critters go hard horned. Does will occassionally lick it, but after about first of Sept, the critters don't hit the salt licks much. I've had elk and deer hit salt/mineral every day from March-September. It's great to see them grow. 

There are bait blocks, bait liquid, and various attractants that I would put into the "spill and kill" category. These generally don't have much nutritional value but smell great, have sweet/salty taste, and have flavors like apple, sugar beet, molasses, corn, chestnut, persimmon, etc. that are really mostly for getting critters to come smell it. 

There are some blocks available that are mostly nutritious and also taste good because they're loaded with molasses and salt that are effective all year round to get critters to come visit. I have almost as much fun putting cameras and stuff out to see what works and what doesn't and to get some great pics. All of these are taken on public land.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Salt licks.........

I only put them out for the sheep.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

What 2full said, the sheep herders and cattle men put it out where they lease the land to run their animals, not to mention their private land.

What I was wondering, and I haven't taken the time to look it up, is what the Forest Service and BLM rules are for putting that stuff out?

Hunting elk last year I ran into a bait station on forest land that had 2 salt licks, corn scattered all over and a sweet grain mix feeder fastened to a pine tree.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Critter said:


> My biggest gripe about is is that they homestead in the camping spot for a month so that they can get it. They pull into it during the bow hunt and leave their trailer there until they shoot their deer. And yes I have reported them. One other thing that they are doing is shooting across a road, and yes I have reported this also and the local officer has talked to them but can't do anything about it unless they catch them.


So, you're talking one (or a couple) of hunter groups who are jerks that happen to like baiting? And doing something about the baiting laws will change what? Jerks are jerks, no matter how they choose to hunt or do anything else.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

elkfromabove said:


> So, you're talking one (or a couple) of hunter groups who are jerks that bait? And doing something about the baiting laws will change what? Jerks are jerks, no matter how they choose to hunt or do anything else.


No this is the most blatant one that I know of, it's right out in the open where everyone can see. I have also came across others where they have packed corn into areas to lure birds and other animals along with piles of apples miles away from the nearest apple tree.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

If it's for birds, then it's illegal. Big game is legal, so I don't necessarily see a problem with it. It's the same theoretically as hunting an alfalfa field. Or putting some hay out. 

I've hunted hogs over bait. I didn't think that was a great experience, but that was more the situation and conditions then the actual bait. 

I wouldn't call those who are following the law jerks. Those who are illegal are jerks that ruin it for others.

I have grown an appreciation for mineral and feed stations that contribute to herd health and making healthier critters. Bigger antlers is a bonus. 

Like I said, I have almost as much fun doing this as I do actually hunting. I get the kids out with me for me job, I get to see nature in it's finest, and I have fun doing it. Some days my job is great. Coming from Utah and dealing with hunting across the nation, I have changed my stance over the years on baiting. Folks that do that where legal are just as passionate as the DIY elk hunter that packs everything into the backcountry for two weeks on his/her back.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

With as many salt and mineral blocks that the sheep and cattle herders put out do we really need more put out by hunters for their health?


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

A pile of apples on the ground only serves one purpose while a alfalfa field has multiple. Also quite a few states have seen a major increase in cwd deer and bait piles are proven to increase the chances of nose to nose contact between animals while a field spreads the animals out. Crops are seasonal and benefit long term bait piles only last till they served thier master.

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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

It all depends on the end use. One could say the same thing about trucks, quads, snowmobiles, and UTV's. If the intended use of my vehicle is go go really, really fast that's illegal. If I take my quad on the trail to where I want to hunt, then it has served it's master also. There are lots of uses for lots of things. I see no reason in this world for someone to own a bullet bike. But folks buy em.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Critter said:


> With as many salt and mineral blocks that the sheep and cattle herders put out do we really need more put out by hunters for their health?


Critter, it's my experience that once cattle and sheep move in, the other critters move out. Sure some get hit by animals, and some are abandoned, but in tests that I've run out here. Cattle hit mineral and salt licks like crazy and usually don't leave room for the other critters. Sheep too.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I find it interesting that using apples, corn, or whatever has always been labeled as questionable from the "ethics" police, but nobody bats and eye at salt and mineral licks.
> 
> Don't they accomplish the exact same thing? Why is one "bad baiting" and another "good baiting?" Any master baiters that derekp1999 was talking about out there able to explain the difference? If this is on the Wildlife Board's agenda to make baiting illegal, will they ban the use of licks? Or will this just be other baits they arbitrarily say are bad?
> 
> I say it's arbitrary, but if I'm missing something, please point it out. I'm not real educated on this issue, to be totally honest.


Is it arbitrary? It sure looks like it to me. In fact, the whole idea of "baiting" to "take" animals looks arbitrary to me, including those legal actions taken by anglers, trappers, and collectors (including the DWR), as well as hunters.

The species taken by baiting are arbitrary, the bait used is arbitrary, the locations are arbitrary, the status of the "taker" is arbitrary, the "intent" of the taker is arbitrary, the method of baiting, and even the timing is arbitrary. And, for the most part, it's all about ethics and fair chase which are based on emotions and perceptions, not biology, science or logic.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

caddis8 said:


> Critter, it's my experience that once cattle and sheep move in, the other critters move out. Sure some get hit by animals, and some are abandoned, but in tests that I've run out here. Cattle hit mineral and salt licks like crazy and usually don't leave room for the other critters. Sheep too.


So do the cattle and sheep leave the ones that are set out for deer and elk alone? Or do you put a sign up that says that they are not allowed to use them?:mrgreen:


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

hazmat said:


> It most likely is soon to be illegal in utah. I believe this topic is on the wildlife board meetings agenda coming up.to discuss banning baiting for big game in utah





caddis8 said:


> What would be the reasoning?


SAFETY!

too many bear encounters.
1 family in southern utah had 3 bear encounters 3 years in a row -- all involving areas they were baiting [feeding] deer. The 3rd year had a young girl sitting alone in a blind over a pile of apples. the bear showed up, ate the apples, then decided it wanted to eat the girl in the blind too. Luckily, after being dragged from the blind, the girl was able to get away, relatively unharmed.

3 dead bears were the result of baiting deer.

The problem with baiting is that it is not animal specific. You set out apples to bring in the deer, but the bears like apples too.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

caddis8 said:


> It all depends on the end use. One could say the same thing about trucks, quads, snowmobiles, and UTV's. If the intended use of my vehicle is go go really, really fast that's illegal. If I take my quad on the trail to where I want to hunt, then it has served it's master also. There are lots of uses for lots of things. I see no reason in this world for someone to own a bullet bike. But folks buy em.


Perception is everything and the majority sees it unethical and unfair advantage. True or not that will drive a rule change for public lands. Might still see it as an option for private as the board seems to make decisions to give advantages to those interests and make thier tag value go up.

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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

You should clearly out line the positives and negatives. Unless the positives clearly out weigh the negatives it's going to be a hard sale IMO

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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

I agree that perception is everything. Safety is certainly worth a look. There is a significant split East/West as far as the use of bait for hunting. If you go to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, folks look at you like you have three eyes if you don't. Several states allow feeding up to a certain point. Some allow feeding a certain amount per day. Some states don't even allow the use of mineral or salt licks. (Colorado, Montana, New York to name a few) Interestingly enough for Colorado that folks can hunt over fields that are intended for agriculture. There are a lot of alfalfa fields in curious spots for "agriculture" and cattle aren't found during the year. 

Point is, there are some good benefits to help maintain herd health. You'd be surprised at the difference between antler size and weight that have had good mineral and health (with the same genetic pool) and those that don't. It's pretty interesting. 

The ethics thing is tough because ethics are also based on culture and geography. Go hunt in the south. Folks call you a crackshot if you can hit at 200 yards. They consider that a long shot. 300 is crazy. 400 unethical in most situations. In the west, 400 is a pretty comfortable shot for most western hunters. 

I can't (and shouldn't) push my set of ethics on you. And I can even agree that most in the west would probably have a bad perception of baiting deer. If you go look at a certain store in Lehi and Farmington, you'll notice there are no feeders for sale there. There's a reason for that. Not there even though it's legal.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

PBH- very fair answer.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I do not bait for any type of game..that was my disclaimer.

Baiting for the purpose of hunting is intended to draw, lure or otherwise entice the animals to that area so they can be harvested, correct? 

Do not most of us hunters look for patterns, habits, food sources, water, etc. that naturally entice those animals so we can harvest them? 

One is manually creating the enticement and capitalizing on it, the other is finding it occurring naturally and capitalizing on it...not too big a difference in my book. Some choose to go to the animals others prefer the animals come to them, it's as simple as that.

As long as it is legal and you feel ok with it then by all means bait away! If I find your bait pile, I just might plant a camera nearby or watch a trail leading to it and kill those animals as well. That's me using my environment (created by the baiters or not) to be successful at hunting. In my book it's lazy but not much different than road hunting.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

My disclaimer is that I don't care if people bait, being as the current law does not prohibit. Carry all the corn you want, folks! 

But to say that piles of apples, corn, deer crack, etc put out by hunters is the same as patterning animals using naturally occurring situations? Well, I don't agree with that in the least. Two VERY different things you're talking about there.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Guess what I was trying to say is that you can either find success or you can create it.

Which is better (right) is really up to the person.

I know that venison sure tastes better than tag soup, that's for sure.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> But to say that piles of apples, corn, deer crack, old Roy dog food, etc


I've heard of a lot of people using cheap dog food. It's less expensive than other baits marketed as "deer" bait. And supposedly deer love it.

but, once again, so do bears.

I really think the issue has nothing to do with ethics. I think this is a safety issue. The State of Utah has had too many problems with bears and recreationists. Removing the summer long feeding programs deer hunters have started practicing would be a good step to minimizing potential encounters with bears.

Who wants to shoot their pet anyway? Oh, wait.....this is Utah. Deer hunters like feeding, naming, photographing, then shooting their pets...


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PBH said:


> I've heard of a lot of people using cheap dog food. It's less expensive than other baits marketed as "deer" bait. And supposedly deer love it.
> 
> but, once again, so do bears.


... and fish! All I remember about fishing Strawberry when I was small was all the people at Clarks camp with CASES of dog food for their weekend of fishing. It was crazy. That old Skippy canned food was the best.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

What I remember them doing with the dog food was punching holes in the cans and then letting them sink. 

Quite a fish attractant.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> What I remember them doing with the dog food was punching holes in the cans and then letting them sink.
> 
> Quite a fish attractant.


I just saw people cut both ends off then sink it. Also knew several guys that would get milk jugs of blood from the local butcher, freeze it, then poke holes in it and hang it suspended under their boats.

The most hardcore guy I knew, used to get roadkill deer and tie rocks to them and sink them in different spots in the lake. LOL...

-DallanC


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

compare 'Ol Roy to any other deer and elk pellet feed. 'Ol Roy is cheap, and deer eat ground corn.


I ran into a buddy one day walking out of IFA Country store. He had a cart piled up with 'Ol Roy. I asked him "when did you get a dog?". He replied he didn't have a dog, and that dog food was much cheaper than deer feed. He said the deer love it.


That was right before bear #1 showed up.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Man alive, that is some spooky stuff. Bears eat about anything. Bears eat beats. Beats. Bears. Battlestar Galactica.

Nutritionally deer eating dog food is a bad idea. Reminds me of the mad cow disease from the 90's-early 2000's. When herbivores eat protein derived from animals, that generally causes problems. 

That's one of problems with feeding on top of safety, is that we can do things that are actually harmful to critters if we're not doing it correctly. Hence, my preference to talk about herd health and focus on nutrition rather than strictly talk baiting. 

Deer feed (protein pellets, corn) that has been flavored with an attractant to increase palatability or increase the aroma to bring more deer in, mineral (chelated minerals, amino acids, salt) etc. that bears generally don't bother, (they'll eat corn, but not like dog food, apples, and other stuff) is a much safer alternative that has nutritional as well as attractive benefits would be my preference.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Identity theft is not a joke, caddis8!


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