# Hunting Canada? Better Buy A 20 GA.



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Canada Bans 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. 
https://www.csaaa.org/blair-bans-12...rkbagWovDF00shwe6tGFq2v5GIvoAJKVZ6yvTBOh-1XXU


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Wow . . .

On a positive note, looks like I really do need a 20 gauge now!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

What the heck?!?!?


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

The world has gone mad.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Its not a done deal just yet. But it could make Canada a pleasantly lonely place to hunt in the fall. 

I'm more worried about the border being open in October.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Take it for what it is worth but Bill Blair who is Minister of Public Safety and is a Member of Parliament came out on Twitter and claimed that 10 and 12 ga shotguns were under the 20mm provision.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1257809936681238533


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Got me thinking: Who is right?

Bore diameter or each gauge:

12- 18.53 mm
10- 19.69 mm

Works Cited: https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Gauge_(bore_diameter)

Or for a second reference:

12- 18.516 mm
10- 19.685 mm

Works Cited: https://gunnersden.com/shotguns/

The "truth" doesn't really matter, but facts do.

Edit: On top of that, however, the legal opinion is referencing the diameter of the barrel when a removable choke is actually removed. And therefore, would take these shotguns over the 20mm limit. So I guess it is all in how the ban is enforced. The government probably needs to clarify that portion. That's why the "truth" doesn't matter, because depending on how it is interpreted and enforced, the "truth" can change.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Its the measurement with the choke removed is whats the dividing factor. This is all over all the furoms.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

I've yet be be able to find the actual legislation, granted I didn't look too hard, but it really comes down to how it's actually written and then interpreted. These two Canadian Government sites just say bore diameter greater than 20mm which my 12 gauge is bigger than that at the muzzle when the choke is removed. So would it be any part of the bore or the average, or something else?

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cntrng-crm/frrms/index-en.aspx
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firea...-new-prohibition-certain-firearms-and-devices

The real head scratcher for me is the 10,000 joule limitation. That rules out a crap ton of popular hunting cartridges starting around the 7mm RUM and 300WM area. And that's if you go by the published reload data, if you go by what someone could load up, it would rule out a bunch more. Really strange in a country where grizzly bear and moose hunts occur regularly.

This boils down to another case of people ignorant about firearms making laws regulating them. This site gives, "sniper rifle" as the example of what firearms are restricted by the muzzle energy limitation. What's the definition of a, "sniper rifle." If this person knew about firearms and if this wasn't about fear mongering to gain public support, they wouldn't say, "sniper rife."

Edit: RED portion is inaccurate. Very few rifle cartridges will be excluded. Had an error in my equation. It really only will exclude the really big guns shooting bullets 450 grains or above at reasonably fast velocities.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

For reference here's a list of velocities at certain grain weights that exceed the allowable muzzle energy:

150gr - 3328 ft/s
160gr - 3222 ft/s
170gr - 3126 ft/s
180gr - 3038 ft/s
190gr - 2957 ft/s
200gr - 2882 ft/s
210gr - 2812 ft/s
220gr - 2748 ft/s
230gr - 2687 ft/s
240gr - 2631 ft/s
250gr - 2578 ft/s
275gr - 2457 ft/s
300gr - 2353 ft/s
350gr - 2179 ft/s
400gr - 2038 ft/s
450gr - 1921 ft/s
500gr - 1823 ft/s

450gr - 2882 ft/s
500gr - 2578 ft/s

Edit: Again RED portion is inaccurate.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

willfish4food said:


> For reference here's a list of velocities at certain grain weights that exceed the allowable muzzle energy:
> 
> 150gr - 3328 ft/s
> 160gr - 3222 ft/s
> ...


The actual math is:

Bullet weight in grains X Velocity squared/450,400 = muzzle energy of the round.

Then to convert the muzzle energy of the round you:

foot pounds/0.73756

So for your first example take

150 X 3328 squared / 450,400 = 3689 ft/lbs

Then:

3689/.73756=5001 joules well under the maximum of 10,000 Joules

Ok, you mathematicians, am I wrong on the figures?

Now my head hurts.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Critter said:


> The actual math is:
> 
> Bullet weight in grains X Velocity squared/450,400 = muzzle energy of the round.
> 
> ...


Correct. I missed the 1/2 in the 1/2mv^2 equation for energy. My own outrage screwed me up.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I've read that the Prime Minister announced this morning that shotguns will not be affected in the ban. 

We'll see how this plays out? I know I'm the odd man out on this gun ban situation. But I don't blame Canada for not wanting a mass shootings every year like here in the States.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

You can put more lead down range with 1 pull of the trigger of a 12GA shotgun than firing a 10 round magazines from a AR15.

#4 Buckshot is .24'ish diameter which is bigger than the AR's .223, and a single shotshell can hold 24 pellets.

There's a reason most Sheriff depts use shotguns for breeching over AR15 "assault rifles". 


-DallanC


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

Vanilla said:


> Got me thinking: Who is right?
> 
> Bore diameter or each gauge:
> 
> ...


WORKS CITED!!!!!!! I love it!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

JerryH said:


> I've read that the Prime Minister announced this morning that shotguns will not be affected in the ban.
> 
> We'll see how this plays out? I know I'm the odd man out on this gun ban situation. But I don't blame Canada for not wanting a mass shootings every year like here in the States.


The Prime Minister also told the people that he was NOT going to ban any hunting rifles either and looked how that played out. I'm reading a lot of posts on other social media sites where the Canadians won't believe the Prime Minister until it's in writing and signed.

As far as mass shootings, they are terrible, evil acts that no sane human being wants to see happen anywhere. Just horrible....


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

We'll see how it plays out for them. Either way I don't have a dog in the fight. 

Hey the 20 and the mighty 28 have proved their worthiness to me:smile:


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

How many empties, Jer?


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Its the fall and the bounce that kills em


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Dang Jerry, those are some mass shootings right there!


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