# Good on ya...Forest Service



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

After going up on top of Monroe/Cove mountain today, I finally caught site of something I've been wanting to see for a really long time, a few of the trails had been shut down and blocked by the forest service. I have been complaining for a long time about there being to many trails on the Monroe unit, and although I hope they keep closing some down I am glad to see some progress. Now if the BLM would get there ass in gear and shut down some trails in the lower country, things might really start looking good.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

In the unit I hunted this weekend it is a WMA where two fence/gates have been broken down and run over many times. I guess I should let the DWR know about that, but what is so stupid is that they have illegally blocked off a public road (this I know as my family used to own the land that is now the WMA) that gave access to a rarely used road accessing other's lands. It is a loop with a road going down the middle, they closed the road down the middle from one side and from the other side where the loop is in the middle thereby blocking public access on public thoroughfare. Knowing from old neighbors that the road block is illegal I can't rightly report the fence being broken down. Apparently the land owners reported it to the AG and he said that the DWR's actions are illegal but they won't do anything about it. I would keep breaking it down too if I were them and let it get settled in court when the AG finally is forced to act and declare the closure illegal once the DWR takes action against them. Of course, the forest service land is a much different issue, good on them for blocking the road. Ok, off my soapbox now.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Then you are going to be a happy man the BLM and Forrest Service have been on a trial closing mission lately.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The issue of closing roads/trails sits mostly with the counties and the state of Utah. It all goes back to RS-2477. Its far more complicated that it needs to be. If the BLM and Forest Service had their way though, you'd see far more roads/routes/trails closed. Far more. Some good, some not so good. Its pretty interesting to me, that considering that four wheelers are really a product of the last 30 years, how wheeler enthusiasts cling to a mining law from the 1870s to declare their "historic right" to drive all over he77 with their wheelers. But in some parts of this state, closing roads to wheelers is considered an act of treason and grounds for a civil war. So it goes.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

If SUWA had it's way we would have the dunes, 5 mile pass, and that is it. Everywhere else would be designated "wilderness areas" which sound good until you realize it restricts horse and bike traffic as well. If the roads have been open to wheeled travel for 200 years why do they need to close now because our "wheels" have motors attached to them? Thank god for central Utah and commissioners that are pro-atv! :mrgreen:


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> If SUWA had it's way we would have the dunes, 5 mile pass, and that is it. Everywhere else would be designated "wilderness areas" which sound good until you realize it restricts horse and bike traffic as well. If the roads have been open to wheeled travel for 200 years why do they need to close now because our "wheels" have motors attached to them? Thank god for central Utah and commissioners that are pro-atv! :mrgreen:


No you close a trail that is 200 years old because there are a lot more people now, and a lot more who abuse there right and trash any area that is accessible to ATV's. Once there probably was 1 trail that is 200 years old, but trust me that one trail breaks into about 20 now days, people drive and break new trails so often things should be shut down to ATV's. I am pro-atv for the most part, but having an all access pass to every single gully, and every single ridge, and every single flat is not smart for the wildlife, whether it is for the deer and elks breeding areas or deer and elks calving/fawning areas it puts a great amount of stress to have 20 4 wheelers per day come through an area with many pregnant/breeding animals, plus it makes road hunting way to easy. Have you seen the Monroe unit? Because even with the ones they closed in the last couple weeks don't even put a fraction of a dent in the trail system, they more or less just closed trails that had been made trails throughout the last few years. Yes ATV's are great, but when people are cutting new trails (which I see a lot now days), having a 4-wheeler trail every 500 feet on the deers winter range(BLM land), then there is a problem. I would like to see the trails on Monroe mountain slashed in half both on BLM and forest service land, I get tired of there being 4-wheeler tracks off the trail everwhere I go, when really you can't get everywhere on legal trails, and then when the forest service/BLM try to step in and stop it, idiots like the ones breaking down gates (although under your circumstances it seems a little different than the norm) cutting fences, running down signs, and finding ways around blocks ruin it and just put the forest service/blm in more of a thought that even more should be closed down. Anyways like I said I'm for access on ATV's but not unlimited or over-access, so ya I'm glad to see the forest service finally doing something about things.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

1-I nailed it. If the wheelers would stick to the roads that really should be protected as open under RS-2477, there would be no issue. When you start looking at time sequenced arieal images of areas that in 1990 had a few roads/trails, to 2007 and the same area is now a web of roads/trails, it is clear that proliferation has become a significant issue. I really think that most OHV folks are good and stay on the trails. But when the idiots cut new ones all the time, then those wanting to do the right thing, can't tell the "real" trail from the newly but one and all of them become worse and worse in a downward spiral. Its a huge management issue that has tons of implications. Forget SUWA. They are nuts and don't want anything but a place to park their subaru so they can hike up the canyon and smoke the gongee all by themselves. But moderation in trails. There is no reason at all for 57 woven trails to a single location.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> 1-I nailed it. If the wheelers would stick to the roads that really should be protected as open under RS-2477, there would be no issue. When you start looking at time sequenced arieal images of areas that in 1990 had a few roads/trails, to 2007 and the same area is now a web of roads/trails, it is clear that proliferation has become a significant issue. I really think that most OHV folks are good and stay on the trails. But when the idiots cut new ones all the time, then those wanting to do the right thing, can't tell the "real" trail from the newly but one and all of them become worse and worse in a downward spiral. Its a huge management issue that has tons of implications. Forget SUWA. They are nuts and don't want anything but a place to park their subaru so they can hike up the canyon and smoke the gongee all by themselves. But moderation in trails. There is no reason at all for 57 woven trails to a single location.


I can go for what both of you have said. So rather than more legislation and closing more and more trails lets enforce the laws we currently have? I am sure that the money raised by citations issued would more than pay the salary of more officers in the field. Rather than punish all riders for a small percentages actions lets find the bad eggs and fine the crap out of them. They will either fall in line and follow the rules or sell the wheelers and quit riding either way problem solved. But I forget this is the government so simple solutions will never be implemented...


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Just to kind of show you what I mean, on this map the green trail is the only marked legal trail on the official map, the red trails are trails that have been made or are illegal to be on, but when your in the area there is no way to tell which have been created or which are legal because none are marked and they all look traveled the same. This is an example of what ATV's will do to an area over the years, at least when people won't follow laws. The orange spot is where I think the forest service should block the road from use, this area is only 1X1 mile wide at its widest point and has nearly 8 miles of trails weaving through it. It's like this nearly everywhere on the Monroe unit.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

Huge I was also in a WMA area this last weekend and they have closed of a strange road. I would have thought there were others in the area they would have closed first. The area I hunt has had alot of talk the last few years about shutting down all roads and making it foot traffic only due to how critical this winter range is.

1-I I would agree the roads in red should go. But Your orange gate I disagree with.

Earlier this year I was hunting bears in Idaho. There was one road the forest service has tried to shut down many times. Someone kept ripping the gate out and moving the rocks, so they went in with a track hoe and dug the road up for about 1/4 a mile back in then pushed rock onto in so there was no way you could drive on it. They also stuck a gate back up. Two weeks later the gate was gone but there was now way you could get down the road. 

I think they should close all of these little roads and new trails that the atvs keep cutting but at the same time they need to let them drive on the mantained roads that they keep closing to atv travel. 

Like stated above the only way they are going to stop the miss use in to hire more people to police it. The guy how does not care is giong to get caught and have to pay the fines. And like the saying goes it will keep an honest person honest.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

cklspencer said:


> 1-I I would agree the roads in red should go. But Your orange gate I disagree with.


My reason where my orange gate is because it would be in an area where it would be hard to get around, whereas if they tried blocking the red roads they are just sage brush and people would just go around them, where I put the orange thing it would be very hard to get around. Also this is a prime place for both deer and elk, walking should be a part of the game, everything I see get killed in the area is shot off a 4-wheeler.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

orvis1 said:


> Everywhere else would be designated "wilderness areas" which sound good until you realize it restricts horse and bike traffic as well.
> 
> I have never seen a wilderness that didnt allow horses. Is there such a place. I know from the graffiti in the uintas that this really makes the bikers mad.
> 
> also how do you do the small one line quotes like this? cant seem to do it right.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

10yearquest said:


> also how do you do the small one line quotes like this? cant seem to do it right.


got it now thanks 1-I


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