# Best Limited Entry Buck Unit?



## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

:?: 

Other than the Premium LE Units, which unit in your opinion would be the best for hunt quality and animal quality for the Any Weapon hunt? I wont attempt to define animal quality as it is different for everyone. But just for the sake of discussion, let's say a buck that is >26".

In the past I've been putting in for the Bookcliffs as I know the area pretty well. Just looking for other options.

Thanks for your opinions.

sawsman


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Fillmore Oak Creek is IMHP the best LE unit after the Henries and Pauns. I also think Vernon is right there with the Books. The one I would stay clear of is Thousand Lakes.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

I would have to agree with PRO, but one that I am thinking really hard about this next year is the late season archery hunt on the Dolores Triangle unit. That hunt will depend on the weather, but if the weather works out that hunt would be a blast.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Oak Creek is a good one!
The "rule of thumb" for that unit is 160-170" bucks, but at least one or two giants over 200" seem to happen every year.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

> The one I would stay clear of is Thousand Lakes.


Why's that?

I agree with the Vernon unit. That has always been my second choice.

sawsman


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Thousand Lakes is the WORST LE deer unit in Utah by far. The DWR even tried in 2007 to make it a general season area.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

What would be the motivation behind making Thousand Lakes general season? :shock: 

To desimate what herd was left? WTF. :evil:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Sawman,This would depend on your weapon choise.

Archery I would say Bookcliffs, Rifle would be Oak City, I was there this year for the entire 
hunt, You won't see a lot of bucks but the ones you do are far better quality than in Books.

And finally muzzle loader, Crawford Mountain are the Dolores Triangle.

If you would like more detail , PM me.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Thousand Lakes has been below the buck to doe ratio that is required for LE units.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Im missing the logic. If Thousnd Lakes buck doe ratio is low. Then shut it down for a while. Or at least limit tags. If any LE Elk unit had trouble would the DWR's answer be to just open it up yo general season? No.

You know its this kind of crap that only confirms my belief that there is a distaste for deer in the DWR and special intrest groups. (where the hell is the Mule Deer Foundation) Or are they now owned by the Elk foundation. :roll:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Im missing the logic. If Thousnd Lakes buck doe ratio is low. Then shut it down for a while. Or at least limit tags. If any LE Elk unit had trouble would the DWR's answer be to just open it up yo general season? No.
> 
> You know its this kind of crap that only confirms my belief that there is a distaste for deer in the DWR and special intrest groups. (where the hell is the Mule Deer Foundation) Or are they now owned by the Elk foundation. :roll:


The Thousand Lakes unit is small and the deer cross back and forth with general season areas, making it impossible to manage for 'quality'. In fact it was made LE due to low deer population numbers not because of visions of the next Henries. What exactly do you think the MDF should be doing on THIS unit to make it "all better"? Or, is it just easier to bad mouth others rather than offer solutions? :shock:


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Well Im sure the status quoe isnt working. Do you think the MDF can be proud of what has happenend with deer over the last 20 or 30 yrs. I know the EF is proud of there efforts in lobby for elk. I havent herd the MDF raising any heck or rallying deer hunters to let the DWR know deer matter. 

Can you argue that their has been limited special attention paid to deer over the last 20 yr. And as for Elk? 
All I ever hear is that its out of mans hands when it comes to the deer pop. But yet elk get all the special management. 

I suggest a larger deer herd and I get replies that it just wont happen and to forget about the days of old.
In the days of old you could hardly find an elk in Utah. Now looky here a premier elk herd. Wow special intrest and management does have an effect. Just seems the the EF is louder than the MDF. And judging by trends in big game it shows. And why shouldt I be critical of the MDF. What is there purpose? As far as Im concerned the blame can be spread out to several factors. And the MDF has to share some.

If its a suggestion you want I have one that is sure to increase the quality and quantity of deer. Pro of all people you know exactly what would work for deer. Weather you agree with doing it is a diffrent matter.
LE statewide deer 40 units or so. More preditor control. 3pt or better on some units that will stay general season.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> If its a suggestion you want I have one that is sure to increase the quality and quantity of deer. Pro of all people you know exactly what would work for deer. Weather you agree with doing it is a diffrent matter.
> LE statewide deer 40 units or so. More preditor control. 3pt or better on some units that will stay general season.


Not true, proof is the current LE deer units in Utah today. All, except Thousand Lakes, have 20:100+ buck:doe ratios with the Premium units being over 40:100, yet the LE units do NOT have higher population growth than the general season areas, in fact they have LOWER population growths than general season areas. Increasing 'quality' does NOT mean an increase in quantity, in fact it often hurts quantity.

Comparing deer to elk is akin to comparing milk to Pepsi. Deer have shorter lifespans, meaning a doe with produce fewer offspring in her lifetime than a cow with produce in her lifetime. Deer are more vulnerable to drought, disease, deep snow, change in habitat conditions, and predators than elk are. There are nearly four deer for every one elk in Utah, that is backwards to what it was when the white man 'settled' here. Also, I am of a strong opinion that the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, which I was a committee chair for my local chapter for several years, had/has much to do with the current elk herd and how it is managed here in Utah. Struggling deer herds is not unique to Utah, their numbers have declined in ALL western states, you can't blame that on the elk herds everywhere can you?

Here is a link to help understand the MANY issues/obstacles facing our deer herds: http://muledeerworkinggroup.com/index_f ... ge1525.htm

I think the deer herds in Utah are better off WITH The Mule Deer Foundation and other conservation groups being here and doing MANY great things to help the deer here.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The 1000 Lakes unit has plenty of bucks. The problem is that the UDWR does their counts in the early winter, after the bucks have migrated and are on the surrounding general season areas. Their counts are skewed and not representative of the actual deer population within the limited entry unit. With the low tag numbers, the 1000 Lakes can be a great hunt, with the chance at an above average buck. 

I fought against changing the 1000 Lakes to a general season and took some flack for it. Fortunately, the Board decided to keep it as a limited entry unit and the odds of drawing a tag show there are people wanting to hunt it.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

Darn it pro did we learn anything from the vernon last year. There are no big bucks there all the vidos sighting and such are fake. Just ask the rifle hunters out there i must have talked to a dozen that said they couldnt find anything ( not exactly what lilly pad they were looking under)   .
My choices on the vernon would have to be Archery first followed by the muzzleload and last but not least the rifle only becouse if you have serious storms the bigger bucks tend to relocate to the back side in the cedars.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Auto vs deer kills as many deer as hunters do each year.

My suggestion is to get really aggressive about creating bridges and fences on our roadways. And getting these deer off the roads.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Yah Yah! I've heard all the reasons why we just cant have large deer herds. Its out of our hands! 
Just suck on it I guess. :evil: 

I wonder how states back east have such strong whitetail herds? Even with more developlment and less habitat.

Are whitetail and mule deer apples and oranges? 

Pro is there any truth to the DWR focusing more on elk than deer over the last 30yrs? What special managment has the DWR done in the last 15yrs (statewide deer) other than split the state into 4 regions? Where is the MDF in all of this! Are they content with deer trends? Where is there presure on the DWR concerning over hunted units, predation and so called habitat loss from MDF? I would figure they would be shouting from the mtn tops wanting some changes. Im sorry I only have 30yr+ expeirience on one mtn. You know which one it is. Maybe its a special case. But I hear the same sentiments from others hunting elswhere. And on this mtn I just dont see why there couldnt be more deer. And the elk are doing better and better. Just cant understand the DWR's objective.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

> Are whitetail and mule deer apples and oranges?


Yes.... they are.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Pro is there any truth to the DWR focusing more on elk than deer over the last 30yrs? What special managment has the DWR done in the last 15yrs (statewide deer) other than split the state into 4 regions? Where is the MDF in all of this! Are they content with deer trends? Where is there presure on the DWR concerning over hunted units, predation and so called habitat loss from MDF? I would figure they would be shouting from the mtn tops wanting some changes. Im sorry I only have 30yr+ expeirience on one mtn. You know which one it is. Maybe its a special case. But I hear the same sentiments from others hunting elswhere. And on this mtn I just dont see why there couldnt be more deer. And the elk are doing better and better. Just cant understand the DWR's objective.


I don't think the DWR has focused 'more' on elk than mule deer over the last 30 years. But, elk have made major increases in the last 30 years for sure. Elk are much easier to 'manage', they live twice as long as deer, eat a wider variety of food, can withstand droughts/harsh winters better than deer, immune/more resistant to disease than mule deer.

In the last 15 years Utah has done MORE habitat work in deer areas than ANY state in the west. And it is five regions not four. I like the deer trends, since the trends are an increasing deer herd in almost every part of the state and much higher buck:doe ratios than 20-30 years ago.

Also, atv usage, both in the number of them and where they are allowed to go has had HUGE impacts on mule deer 'quality'/quantity. So has an increase in hwys through crucial migratory routes. An increase in pinion juniper, a decrease in riparian areas with young healthy aspen stands and young sagebrush, a HUGE increase in cheatgrass have all had major impacts on deer populations in the west.


Packout said:


> > Are whitetail and mule deer apples and oranges?
> 
> 
> Yes.... they are.


As much, if not more so, than mule deer and elk.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'd say this topic is "High jacked". And all this talk about Thousand Lakes and the most
important point has been totaly missed. The reason why this unit struggles with low
buck numbers is the fact that, the only "limited entery" part of this unit is forest service land.
All the rest of BLM, State and PRIVATE land is genral season. Most of the good bucks 
are shot in the hay fields with out a LE permit. That is why they wanted to change it to
General season. I had an archery tag there in 05, I would say it is "Fair hunting" at best.
Can't complain though , drew it with ZERO points. But for somone with more than two
points,,,,,,,,I'd say, try some where else....


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

I dont mind the high-jack. I now know more than I did about the Thousand Lakes unit  , I dont think I'll use it as a choice.

Thanks for the replies.

sawsman


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

About 5 yrs ago a buddy of mine hunted Thousand lakes (archery). He shot a huge buck. 6x7 28in. Said he seen plenty of nice bucks. He said he hunted along the Great Western Trail or something like that. Keep in mind he was a lifetime Monroe hunter. Our standards might be lower than others. Im planning on putting in for LE archery Thousand Lakes. Sounds like an easy draw. I just want a 25 in 4 pt that will do.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Keep in mind he was a lifetime Monroe hunter. Our standards might be lower than others. Im planning on putting in for LE archery Thousand Lakes. Sounds like an easy draw. I just want a 25 in 4 pt that will do.


I have video of two bucks wintering between Monroe and Marysvale that are both bigger than 25 inch 4 points. One is a very heavy old buck that is a 4x4 around 28 inches wide and the other is a younger buck that is a 5x5 with kind of willowy horns.


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## Rmanwill (Mar 5, 2021)

Anyone been on Dolores Triangle lately?

Been researching and building points and hope to draw one of these years. 

Any helpful guidance? Still looks to be good unit if a guy can draw and have some weather.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The best area in the Triangle is locked off


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

The new HAMS hunt on my property in Morgan. Hoping like crazy my brother draws it!!!


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## FeartheTurtle (Mar 8, 2021)

If you're not after a monster, Book Cliffs is one of my favorite places on earth. Where else can you see big deer, elk and Bison in the same day and come back to camp and find a bear sitting at your table?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

FeartheTurtle said:


> If you're not after a monster, Book Cliffs is one of my favorite places on earth. Where else can you see big deer, elk and Bison in the same day and come back to camp and find a bear sitting at your table?


Yellowstone


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

Iron Bear said:


> Im missing the logic. If Thousnd Lakes buck doe ratio is low. Then shut it down for a while. Or at least limit tags. If any LE Elk unit had trouble would the DWR's answer be to just open it up yo general season? No.
> 
> You know its this kind of crap that only confirms my belief that there is a distaste for deer in the DWR and special intrest groups. (where the hell is the Mule Deer Foundation) Or are they now owned by the Elk foundation. :roll:


"Or at least limit tags?" Hmmm, like change it to a limited entry unit?


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

MooseMeat said:


> Yellowstone


Can you find a big buck in Yellowstone?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

provider said:


> Can you find a big buck in Yellowstone?


Can you find a big buck on the bookcliffs?


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## FeartheTurtle (Mar 8, 2021)

MooseMeat said:


> Yellowstone


True, but in Yellowstone there would be two bears sitting at the table and some idiot from New Jersey standing ten feet away taking pictures.


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