# pitbulls... Waste of skin



## cornerfinder

I consider myself a dog lover, had at least one or more since I was in my wee little crib. Farm dogs hunting dogs hound dogs working dogs even those stupid little lap dogs. I think I am open mined on this subject. But I swear if I see another pitbull attack I am gona go postal. I mean really you cant blame an alligator for being an alligator or a bear for doing what bears do, but all those owners who say oh my pit is a good dog, you are crazy, put the darn thing down. Kill it, it is a waste of K9 flesh. There are to many good dogs being euthanized. If you don't believe me do a search on KSL and compare pitbull attacks to all other dogs combined&#8230;.. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH&#8230; http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10467910


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## Huge29

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

FWIW labs bite more people than those useless things, of course there are about 1,000x more labs than those pieces of trash. I had a neighbor whose K9 dog did the same thing to a kid, he was a German Shepherd, had to be beat off of the kid by the officer with a 4x4, dog was quickly put out of its misery. 
I am with you, they are the most worthless pieces of trash...


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## TEX-O-BOB

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

True, Labs do _bite_ more people, but when a Pit bites you it's for blood and they DON'T let go. They are a status symbol among the sector of our community that is a little more "thug" than most. (Enter Micheal Vick) Therefore they don't get trained to do anything but be a thug (fighting) like their owners. I have met some nice ones but they were owned by nice people who didn't tolerate any crap from their pets.

I'm with you though, totally worthless breed.


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## Packbasket

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

I am still stuck back in the east and had a run in with three loose running pitbulls 3 months ago while running my hounds.
all three came right for my hounds and I did not hesitate to drop the three of them. I called to see if they had a local dog catcher and that was a mistake, but I figured if someone owned them ( no one did) they'd want to know why and what happened.
Fish and Game came, local police, state police, started off telling me they have felony charges for animal cruelty in this state, (vermont, no pistol permits needed, no ccw, follow the US Constitution only, every American has the Right to Keep and Bear arms, but they got stupid laws about animal cruelty) shooting an animal is considered animal cruelty...I asked if any of them were hunters, they said they all were, I asked them how long til they were arrested for shooting a deer? They talked about that a good bit and decided that my shooting the dogs once each was not cruelty and was self defense and defense of my property. The local cop said he thought three for three on running dogs with a six shooter was probably luck, I said I know it was since I was too afeared for my life to take aim, pretty sure I had my eyes closed and was crying too....ijit.

Take to carrying your rifle or open carry your pistol and when the pitbull owners say something say oyu can't afford to feed a pitbull and the weapon doesn't shed on your couch.


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## Rabbit_slayer16

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



TEX-O-BOB said:


> True, Labs do _bite_ more people, but when a Pit bites you it's for blood and they DON'T let go. They are a status symbol among the sector of our community that is a little more "thug" than most. (Enter Micheal Vick) Therefore they don't get trained to do anything but be a thug (fighting) like their owners. I have met some nice ones but they were owned by nice people who didn't tolerate any crap from their pets.
> 
> I'm with you though, totally worthless breed.


i couldn't agree more. i hate pitbulls, but on the same note.. my brother has one and it is no doubt the best family dog ive ever seenn. my nephews pull his ears and climb on him and he just stands there.

but it is how the owner takes care of it like mentioned before.


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## Chaser

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



Rabbit_slayer16 said:


> but it is how the owner takes care of it like mentioned before.


This is probably 60% of it, with 30% being personality, and the other 10% belongs to the mean streak in 'em that runs a mile wide. Let's face it, these dogs were bred to be aggressive, tenacious, and in some circumstances downright MEAN.

Like Tex said, labs bites may be more common than pitbull bites, but the statistic that should be looked at more closely is the percentage of bites that result in emergency care for serious injuries. This little girl that had her face ripped apart will be scarred mentally and physically for the rest of her life. Way too often it is little kids who get the short end of the stick in these situations.

So I agree with the author of this thread- they're worthless. The same companionship can be had from a different breed that doesn't have the mean streak.


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## Treehugnhuntr

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

:shock:


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## ZEKESMAN

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Every time this comes up I get PI$$ED. How many of you have owned one? They are the most loyal, couragous, dogs hands down. Will your dog willingly give its life up to protect your family? All of the problems are the owners, we should put them down. The dogs were bred to be fearless gladiators, they need to be controlled at all times. This is the owners responsability. I own two labs, they are trained,fenced, and leashed. I am respnsable for them at all times. They are animals. Owners of Pits need to do this times two. Pits are not mean or evil, they are animals. Some owners are cruel to them. They try to bring out the worst. I know people who rescue fighting dogs. After training they are just dogs. Vic


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## cornerfinder

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through 1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities."

this is a quote from this web-site http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

Statistically they attack more often per species. When they do it is always more severe if not FATAL. I don't blame the dog. I blame the city council for allowing them in the city. Rattlesnakes are safer. So as I said before, PIT BULLS are a waste of flesh. I would rather a rabid coyote loose in the city.


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## lehi

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



ZEKESMAN said:


> Every time this comes up I get ****$ED. How many of you have owned one? They are the most loyal, couragous, dogs hands down. Will your dog willingly give its life up to protect your family? All of the problems are the owners, we should put them down. The dogs were bred to be fearless gladiators, they need to be controlled at all times. This is the owners responsability. I own two labs, they are trained,fenced, and leashed. I am respnsable for them at all times. They are animals. *Owners of Pits need to do this times two*. Pits are not mean or evil, they are animals. Some owners are cruel to them. They try to bring out the worst. I know people who rescue fighting dogs. After training they are just dogs. Vic


That's the **** problem! Owners of Pitts don't give "times two", so there will still be instances of these **** things hurting and even killing people. Even if the owners are good people and not necessarily thugs, these things will still snap and attack if they are triggered.

A pointer that has never been hunting will still point at a pheasant if it finds one, do you get what I am saying? :?: :idea: You can't fully tame a lion, and you can't fully tame a dog that was bred to attack with great jaw strength and never let go.

If it takes a **** professional to train a pit, ordinary citizens shouldn't own them. *\-\*


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## hyperduc

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



ZEKESMAN said:


> All of the problems are the owners, we should put them down.


You really won't find any argument here, but you kinda missed the point.

These dogs are bred to be aggressive fighters, just like retrievers are hard wired to fetch things, and just like pointers point. in other words they are predispositioned to do what they do (maul people), just like their owners are predispositioned to wear MMA t-shirts and live in trailer parks.

There may be good dogs, but the breed as a whole isn't good for anything but dog fighting.


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## Huge29

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



hyperduc said:


> ZEKESMAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of the problems are the owners, we should put them down.
> 
> 
> 
> You really won't find any argument here, but you kinda missed the point.
> 
> These dogs are bred to be aggressive fighters, just like retrievers are hard wired to fetch things, and just like pointers point. in other words they are predispositioned to do what they do (maul people), just like their owners are predispositioned to wear MMA t-shirts and live in trailer parks.
Click to expand...

 :lol: I also have a sister who had one, fortunately in past tense, finally came to her senses after it attacked a neighbor's livestock, fortunately not a person. The thing that is so curious to me is the conviction that these non trailer trashers have in owning them. Like their goal in life is to prove the image incorrect at the risk of their own well being as many have recounted above.


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## Fowlmouth

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10581826
2 dead ones..... :|


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## .45

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



Fowlmouth said:


> http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10581826
> 2 dead ones..... :|


I'd call that pretty damned stupid, why the hell didn't they _first_ call in animal control ? 


> Four detectives had been watching the man's house for about two weeks, and were aware of the dogs, before the search warrant was issued Wednesday.


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## yfzduner450

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Pitbulls are a waist of skin. But it's more the stupid dumba$$ owners. It's not cool the build a dog up to be a scary looking dog. I know many dogs that will stomp the guts outta a pit and don't look mean at all. I do think pits have one purpose and that's to catch pigs.


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## Mojo1

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



ZEKESMAN said:


> Every time this comes up I get **** How many of you have owned one? They are the most loyal, couragous, dogs hands down. Will your dog willingly give its life up to protect your family? All of the problems are the owners, we should put them down. The dogs were bred to be fearless gladiators, they need to be controlled at all times. This is the owners responsability. I own two labs, they are trained,fenced, and leashed. I am respnsable for them at all times. They are animals. Owners of Pits need to do this times two. Pits are not mean or evil, they are animals. Some owners are cruel to them. They try to bring out the worst. I know people who rescue fighting dogs. After training they are just dogs. Vic


Pitbull= nothing but trouble! ditto for Rots!


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## caddisguy

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



ZEKESMAN said:


> They are the most loyal, couragous, dogs hands down. Will your dog willingly give its life up to protect your family?


My wiener dog would readily gives up his life protecting me.

Having worked in an ER for twenty years I can tell you the most common breed I saw bite children, mostly on the face was a ****er spaniel. It must be those soft eyes and floppy ears.


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## TEX-O-BOB

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



> The dogs were bred to be fearless gladiators, they need to be controlled at all times.





> Owners of Pits need to do this times two.


That says it all right there.

A dog that needs _twice_ the training and attention to keep them from being nuisance animals with a propensity for killing people and other dogs. Hmmmmm. :? Worth it? I think not!


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## Doc

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



ZEKESMAN said:


> .....Will your dog willingly give its life up to protect your family? ...


Seems like even a chihuahua may have that quality. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=711&sid=11373722


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## ZEKESMAN

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

So I ask again, is it the dogs fault? Should they recieve the death sentance? Or should the owners face criminal charges? Is it the guns fault when someone is shot? How about those evil assalt rifles? " Handgung are made for killin, they aint no good for nothin else" in the words of Lynard Skynard. Sound anything like the pitbull arguments? just saying Vic


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## cornerfinder

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

The constitution affords us the right to bear arms. There will always be guns! Pit bulls are not mentioned in the constitution. They can and should be regulated (eradicated). Would we let our community raise pit vipers, lions, rattlesnakes. The answer to that is a resounding NO. I would support a ban on pit bulls in cities. So the comparison of guns to dogs is moot. It's like comparing a surgeons scalpel to guns to dogs. One is made for cutting human flesh the other two are made for killing. I see one on my street. I will assume that I am protecting my community and swiftly dispatch it!!!!


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Plus a gun can't come to life and decide of its own volition to shoot somebody. I agree that the comparison doesn't work. 
One might argue that training can remove aggression in a dog and while that's true, training cannot remove genetics. Fighting breeds have it in their DNA to never let go once they've bitten. Other breeds might bite, but they'll let go and back off if you fight back. You will only be removing your hand from a pit bull's mouth when the dog is dead and cold.


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## Doc

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Do you know what has four legs one arm and is happy?

A pit bull.......


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## Chief Squatting Dog

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Yet again, another Pit Bull attack http://www.abc4.com/content/news/state/ ... V1itw.cspx


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## TEX-O-BOB

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



> Police say the mother was giving the boy medicine, and when she turned around, the dog attacked the boy.
> 
> The mother was able to get the dog off the boy and took him to the hospital.
> 
> The boy underwent surgery at Primary Children's Medical Center. The 10-month old pit bull will now be put down.


But they're such great loyal family dogs! :? :evil:


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## lehi

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



TEX-O-BOB said:


> Police say the mother was giving the boy medicine, and when she turned around, the dog attacked the boy.
> 
> The mother was able to get the dog off the boy and took him to the hospital.
> 
> The boy underwent surgery at Primary Children's Medical Center. The 10-month old pit bull will now be put down.
> 
> 
> 
> But they're such great loyal family dogs! :? :evil:
Click to expand...

The boy probably pulled a knife on his mom so the dog was protecting the mom.


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

i worked a dogman's yard before matching was outlawed. i'm sure i've handled more pit bulldogs than everybody on this forum. never had a one so much as growl at me. i've owned, worked or handled over 300 dogs in my life mostly cur dogs, birddogs & bulldogs. i've been tagged by a few dogs but never a "pitbull." in fact, overwhelmingly most of the old dogmen culled manbiters. a manbiter had to be freak of nature good in the box to be breathing and 10X better than that to be bred.

i strongly reccommend you tuff guys not be shooting peoples dogs, especially since most people (including vets & animal control) can't properly ID a real pit bulldog. you may wind up shooting someones showdog and losing the resulting lawsuit (along w/your house).
or it may belong to someone that is a bigger [email protected]$$ and they might do something even dumber, since the majority of the crossbred trash people call pitbulls is owned by a lot of wannabe thugs.


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## ROI

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Generalizations about canine behavior are difficult to defend. There is always the exception. With that said I will make a generalization, and ask you to use your experience to help us all.

For a dog to termed a "manbiter" it would have had to at least bitten one person. I quess there could be behaviors that would indicate a biter without actual contact. In the arena you describe, that person would most likely have been an accomplished hander, with probably extensive experience, rather than a child. Either way the dog gets one bite before being determined to be a "manbiter".

Here is the generalization. From what I have read and seen that first bite involving pit bulldogs, as you call them, is often very serious in nature. Life changing in many cases, fatal in others, but very often requiring major medical intervention. Often the attacks are on other dogs, or triggered by the presence of other dogs.

Pop2 - With your experience with the breed. And understanding that a very calm and playful pit bulldog can go from zero bites to a fatality in a moments time. Leaving the owner to describe the dog as a great family dog that plays with his children and is loved by all of the neighborhood to the reporter handling the story.

What limitations of ownership should be placed on the breed and their owners to protect other people and dogs, and of course the owners.

Please don't give the standard answer of any dog could do the same, we should be regulating all breeds in the same manner. We have all heard it and it doesn't hold water and to be very frank. It isn't working. Most people are tired of hearing that line of discussion, and the serious bites just keep on coming. I'm truely asking for your help. Not the rehetoric that has been put forth over and over.

What can be done, based on your extensive experience.


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## wyogoob

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Mrs Goob and I have a pit bull:










sorry, I just can't help myself.


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## proutdoors

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

goob, that pit bull on the right isn't worth spit!


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## wyogoob

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



proutdoors said:


> goob, that pit bull on the right isn't worth spit!


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

i would give the same requirements i would for any breed one unprovoked or unjustified (defense of owner & property from adult) bite and they go down. as for restricting ownership, there is only one i would support based on firm constitutional beliefs in property rights (same reason i wouldn't tell people what kind of cars or guns they can own). anyone convicted of a felony & 3 violent misdemeanors would not be allowed to own, posses or reside with ANY dog 30# or larger.
one of the big problems w/ the junk everyone thinks of as "pitbulls" is that much of the most popular stuff is crossbred junk that was crossed w/ the worst possible breeds. almost universally the breeds crossed into these large dogs was developed for man work like neapolitan mastiff & bullmastiff. this means that the genes for lowered bite inhibition were introduced & and now being scatterbred by nimrods who aren't competant to own a goldfish. the end result is two perfectly good dogs produce a pup or two w/ no inhibition against biting people or worse nervebag fear biters. additionally there are several health reasons why dogs may lash out violently & unnexpectedly including brain cancer/injury & "mental illness." 
the hysteria always happens when a particularly hard style of dog becomes popular resulting in a boom in poor breeding & widespread incompetant ownership. in the early 60s it was german sheperds, in the 70s dobermans, and believe it or not there was an issue w/ airedales before WWII. the root cause is popularity w/the wrong kind of owner, all of which (for the "pit bull") goes back to the HSUS & the lies they spread to get fighting banned. before it was outlawed 90% of the breed was owned by old fashioned dogmen. most of the dogs not owned by them were cold dogs that belonged to friends, neighbors & relatives.
another issue is that many of the dogs IDed as "pit bulls" don't have a drop of pit bulldog blood in them.
the netherlands banned pit bulls in the 80s and just repealed the ban because they found that their fatalities didn't drop just which breed caused them changed. the brits likewise had one of their houses vote to repeal their breed ban for the same reason and because they couldn't be positively IDed not even by genetic testing. there isn't a genetic database ANYWHERE in the world capable of identifying a dogs breed. all they can do right now is prove relationship.
ultimately it is a complex issue w/ no simple answer. a part most people miss is that dogs (ALL breeds) only kill 20-30 people a year at most compared to 100-200 killed every year by deer. and no breed is immune to causing a fatality. please don't think i am dismissing the tragedy of the people killed, but from a "public safety" standpoint there are a thousand different issues we should be more worried about.


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## ZEKESMAN

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Pops2, finally another voice of reason. It is good to hear from someone else with knowledge of dogs.[ dogmen refer to other breeds as curs] Most people think of Mke Vick types when they hear the term "Pit Bull". They don't realize that dogs were more prized for being game, Than winning. Dogmen bred for courage.And didn't hang or electrocute loosing dogs. This is one of the things it is easy to jump on a band wagon with the media. It is a tactic that animal rights groups and gun control groups use to divide us. I don't own assault weapons or pits but I do support your RIGHT to own them. If you abuse this right then you should be held acountable. Outlawing pits is the first step in a slippery slope. Vic

P.S. if they aren't over 30# they aren't dogs 8)


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



ZEKESMAN said:


> P.S. if they aren't over 30# they aren't dogs 8)


Vic i will have to disagree w/ that. i have an aquaintance in IA that has patterdales. his 14# gyp has killed 20# ***** by herself. his 21 & 27# dogs and hi 28# pitXpat gyp, all have locked jaws w/ coyotes in drain pipes & brush piles and pulled them out by sheer force for his stags &/or foxhounds to finish off. they are most definitley dogs.
OTH my SIL has a pug that while funny & way more active than most, definitely falls into that not a real dog catergory.

mike vick, now there is a waste of skin. his old man should have settled for a BJ that night.


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## MKP

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

If you can kick it over a fence, it ain't a dog. :twisted: That's my rule anyway.

There's way too many dog owners that don't have a clue what they're doing, whether its a toy poodle or a pit bull or a Doberman. I'm not sure what the answer is, but the banning of breeds doesn't sound right to me. That's awful close to banning guns, or many other things that "may" be dangerous. Too slippery a slope for me.


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## ROI

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

The information has been very helpful and I appreaciate the thoughtful nature and insight it has revealed and inspired. If I could trouble you with a couple of more questions:

How do you hold people accountable in a way that prevents the serious bites? Insurance, fines, criminal charges don't stop the bite, but rather are steps in compensation. I woud rather not have the bite occur in the first place.

If you use a criminal charge as your hammer, at what level do you punish. Most of the DUI accidents I'm aware of cause tremendously less injury than the last few bites I have seen.

Are we as citizens willing to house and feed inadequate dog owners in jail to try and prevent bites? Or are we willing to give up some of our freedom to prevent a child from getting bite?

Individually it is very difficutl question, across the spectrum of what we call society. It is nearly impossible, but try telling that to a mother that is looking down at a child with its face missing.

The thought process is very similar to firearms and certain types of weapons. I had not seen the parallel nature of the two discussions. Whoever it was that pointed this out thank you.


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## Bret

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

I don't think I entirely disagree.
My concern with Pits has always been to my easy going wouldn't pick a fight with anything not feathered bird dog or Grandmas teacup poodle. I see it like this...We breed pointing dogs to point and they do that. Even in dogs that have been bred down, and been nothing but pets or show dogs throw a pup that points now and then. So a dog bred to fight even way back would probably throw that trait in at least some pups. I don't have a use for dog fighting, or chicken fighting for that matter. Nothing gentlemanly about it if you ask me.

And there is a DNA Database with the FDSB to ID Llewellyn setters. Every Llew must be DNA tested to be registered now days. I don't know if there are others but perhaps there should be.

I think there are plenty of good breeds that do not exhibit or very rarely exhibit this kind of aggressive behavior for someone in their right mind to choose a pit, but its a free country to each his own....Most of the time these days with pits it is about looking like a bad ass Lets face it even if two teacups get into it a little bit you pull them apart and usually no real harm done. (I just used teacups as an example.)

I think you get it Pops, and agree with most everything you said. I think 20 -30 people is to many though. I just wanted to add my .02 cents


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Bret
that is a widespread misconception, if fighting another animal made dogs likely to attack & kill people, coonhounds would kill hundreds of people every year. BUT they don't. "pit bulls" don't cause all 20-30 only 4-6 (which is still too many especially if one of those killed affects you personally). the rest are caused by a variety of breeds including such unlikely candidates as yorkies, poodles, weiner dogs, labs, goldens & beagles. ultimately the only way to prevent any dog related fatalities is to extinct ALL dogs regardless of breed. that just isn't a realistic option since they actually do jobs that cannot reasonably be done any other way.
i'll say it again. i handled the dogs back before matching was banned in the whole country. i worked more pit bulldogs than probably everybody on this board has seen in their whole life. i pulled apart dogs in training rolls. i held dogs while they got stapled, stitched & bones set and never once got bit (done this w/ hunting dogs too and got a few nips). the most bites i ever got was from my mom's little poodles (which also stretched a few stray cats in their day).
would i like to see the breed less poular and only kept by people who know what they're doing, ABSOfreakingLUTELY. do i want to make a law saying so, absolutely no way in hell.
if people really want to save lives, ban cars, ban booze, ban deer, ban lightning, & ban bees because all of them kill at least 10X-10,000X the # of people killed by "pit bulls." and 99.% are preventable deaths even w/o banning these things.
so yeah i get it. it's easier to start a crusade against a genuinely minor problem than to attack real threats. and the situation occurs because people don't want to accept responsibility for their own failures and so would rather throw their neighbors freedom under the bus for a false sense of security. in that regard it absolutely is identical to the gun rights issue.


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## Bret

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

I don't think I mentioned much in my post about K-9 v people attacks I just wanted to bring up the increased likely hood of Pit on K-9 attacks as well as the seriousness of those attacks in comparison to say a Britt and a setter getting into it a little. Or grandmas Tea cup like I mentioned earlier.
I think that is where the instinct comes in. They have been bred to fight other dogs there is no tendency toward K-9 aggression?


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Bret
you are absolutely right about that. even w/ the cold dogs used for dog shows, once in a while a game dog pops up that wants to tangle w/ other dogs more than anything. my personal feeling are that anyone that owns any sort of bull, mastiff or terrier breed should keep on hand & know how to use a breakstick.
at the same time i've seen hounds & curs kill each other. sled dog breeds are also notorious for deadly fights w/ other dogs. heck some of my moms poodles liked to pick fights and a couple would have ended real bad if i hadn't stopped them. just like people bites, the only way to prevent any dog fights is to extinct all dogs.


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## cornerfinder

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Any bets on what type of MIX this is. The article dose not say the breed. It only says a mixed breed. I will call the Tooele county animal shelter and find out. But I would wager it's not a Lab or a Pointer.


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Scotland just voted to end enforcement of the UKs pit bull ban.
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/ ... d-ban.html



> "It is clear that a dog's breed is only one factor which may affect its behavior. *Attempting to define the law purely in relation to breed has failed to protect the public*."





> Over the past decade, Scotland has seen an over 150% increase in dog attacks.


 (pit bulls were banned a little over a decade ago)


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## Packfish

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Well I'm all for anything Scotland would do- didn't they let the Lockerbie bomber go ?
So it's back to 'tard" with a dog theory.


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## proutdoors

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

A 71 year old woman was attacked by a pit bull 'mix' in Tooele last week. The owner (son of said woman) had to pull the dig off the woman. The dog attacked her FACE. She had to be life-flighted to SLC. I have personally been bit over a dozen times by dogs, they seem to think phone repairmen are chew toys, but I only was scared from one attack. It was a pit bull. I have been bit by small dogs, two labs, mutts, a chow, and a pit bull. Only the pit bull warranted a trip to the doctor. I have never heard of a lab attacking a 71 year old woman by biting her in the face and having to be pulled off by someone.


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

you don't hear about it because it doesn't make as exciting of headlines. the fact is Labs have killed people, so have goldens, pointers of all stripes, POODLES, chihuahuas, yorkies, pomeranians, weiner dogs, huskies, beagles, greyhounds, coonhounds, pretty much every breed in existence has killed someone along the way.
i personally saw a border collie labelled a pit bull after it attacked a kid. happened in Amarillo TX in 96 or 97. when they reported it on the news the image of the dog was so quick it was impossible to ID its breed. the news then cut to file footage of pit bulldogs. that is why the CDC did not accept media ID as positive breed ID for statistical purposes, although that may have changed around 03-04.


----------



## Huge29

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



Pops2 said:


> you don't hear about it because it doesn't make as exciting of headlines. the fact is Labs have killed people.


That has certainly been discussed on a few of these threads of these types, however there are about 100x (something like that) more labs in the US vs. pits, so yes, of course there are more bites, but as a percentage of deaths per capita, the pitbulls are off of the charts. 
From Wikipedia


> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in 2000 a study on dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) that covered the years 1979-1998. The study found reports of 238 people killed by dogs over the 24-year period, of which "pit bull terrier" or mixes thereof were reportedly responsible for killing 76, or about 32 percent, of the people killed by dogs in the attacks identified in the study. The breed with the next-highest number of attributed fatalities was the Rottweiler and mixes thereof, with 44 fatalities or about 18 percent of the study-identified fatalities. In aggregate, pit bulls, Rottweilers, and mixes thereof were involved in about 50% of the fatalities identified over the 20-year period covered by the study, and for 67% of the DBRF reported in the final two years studied (1997-1998), concluding
> 
> "It is extremely unlikely that they [pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers] accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.


The article shows 62% of deaths in 2009 were by dogs ID'd as pit bull. Seems that the exact figure of what % this breed makes up of the total dog population is fuzzy; my own guess would be <20%...


----------



## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

because wikipedia is such a bastion of accurate information. for those that don't know ANYONE can post ANYTHING on wikipedia. at least here you have to become a member first.
when the CDC had legitimate info on their site they showed "pit bulls" responsible for 25% of fatal attacks or 4-6 out 24-30 1979-1998. that is because they required POSITIVE ID. they knew full well a boxerXlab could & would be IDed as a pit bull by media & most ACO. they therefore required the dogs breed be IDed by registration papers, owner statement (which is shaky in itself) or evaluation by a representative of the HSUS. by MEDIA ID in the same time period "pitt bulls" accounted for over half of all fatal attacks. (side note how is it the media that is so biased & dishonest about a whole range of issues like gun laws is now suddenly truthful & unbiased on this subject.)
further in order to generate those numbers the CDC lumped together 3 BREEDS where all others are handled individually.
now around 2003-04 the CDC took down all the actual data for that time period and put up a report by two doctors that showed pit bulls caused a much higher percentage of fatalities. the report was ripped under peer review for being scientifically invalid. among other things they used news reports for source data which led to attacks being counted multiple times because it showed up in multiple news sources and they relied on media ID. media ID is also the source for most anti pit bull websites & organizations.

the breeds the CDC lumped together as "pit bulls" as a group are the 5th most popular large/medium "breed."

plain & simple the Netherlands is about 2X the size of new jersey w/ a similar population density. they have one of the most dog intensive cultures in the world, so the average person is very likely to be able to recognize breeds, knows how to handle dogs. their breed ban HAD NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON NUMBER OR SEVERITY of attacks, which is why they repealed it. compare that to the USA where the average person can't handle a chihuahua properly.

i agree that most owners of "pit bulls" probably shouldn't own a goldfish. but the same is true of most owners of labs & goldens. the differences are that the "pit" will handle the maltreatment better w/o becoming violent BUT if they do break & become violent toward people they will do more damage because they are less likely to quit. the whole issue is way overhyped. the statistical fact is that more kids die in a bucket of water, their bath water or the toilet than ALL dog attacks combined. the important thing they have in common is that they are almost all preventable. deer kill 10X as many people every year than ALL dogs, anybody advocate eradicating deer for "public safety?" ALL dogs kill about 20 people a year (for the last 3 years), while 50-60,000 people die in automobile accidents the important thing they have in common is that they are almost all preventable. while nothing changes the personal tragedy of all of these dog attacks are the least significant cause of deaths in this or any country. breed bans are just another step down the slippery slope of living as subjects to an invasive government just like gun control, "hate" crimes & warrantless wire taps. I oppose it on those moral grounds alone. if you don't oppose it you may as well take out a power of attorney and give your neighbor full control over your property & finances because it's the same thing.


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Pops you can argue all you want for your beloved pitbulls, but they're still the biggest douche bags of all the dogs. You're not going to change anyone's minds.


----------



## cornerfinder

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Enough with Wicapedia and CDC, just since I started this thread in April. There have been 6 pit attacks that made the news. The old and feeble the young and possibly even you are in danger. That data stands by itself. I feel completely justified in my previous statement "Pit Bulls are in fact a WAIST OF SKIN" . if you still doubt this please see the following,

http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/lin ... LnmDg.cspx
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=481&sid=10467910
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/st ... W0kYQ.cspx
http://www.standard.net/topics/safety/2 ... bull-melee
http://www.sltrib.com/
oh and one German Sheppard attack http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50197 ... s.html.csp 
one police dog http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/st ... Tk3uA.cspx
if you still doubt me call your own city's animal control officer and talk to them and get a real professional opinion from someone who works with them!


----------



## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

i'd take the same stance if it was dobermans (like it was in the 60s & early 70s), german sheperds (like it was in the 60s), airedales (like it was in the 20s & early 30s) or any other breed. it's a lot of media hype & ignorance on many parts. as sad as it is for the families involved toilets really do kill more kids than pit bulls.
if you don't care for them don't own one, just don't try to tell me what i can own. for me a big part of that is the fact that (although i don't own a pit nor do i want one at the moment) i have & will own dogs for hunting that get mistaken for "pit bulls" do to peoples ignorance. additionally i just find the idea of the gov't or my neighbor telling me what kind of dog i can own repulsive, just as i would if they tried to tell me what kind of gun to own, car i can drive or barbecue i could own. i feel anyone willing to throw their neighbor's liberty under the bus for their own false sense of security is an ignorant POS that is wasting air. their very mentality should be offensive to anyone that truly believes in liberty.


----------



## Chaser

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



Pops2 said:


> toilets really do kill more kids than pit bulls.


Toilets are a necessity though, where pit bulls are not.


----------



## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

no there have been 3 attacks where the dog(s) were labelled pit bulls. on incident of reckless use of a firearm for friendly but poorly mannered dogs (as evidenced by the fact the dogs JUMPED on the girls but DID NOT BITE). and two attacks by sheperds. for a total of 6 attacks. since there are no pics of the dogs involved in almost all the stories we don't have positive ID of the breed beyond media & "eyewitnesses." as i have already pointed out media ID will label a border collie a pit bull after an attack. further many breeds & mixes will be labeled a pit while having no pit in them. i'll even prove it. how many pit bulls are in this picture?


----------



## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



Chaser said:


> Pops2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> toilets really do kill more kids than pit bulls.
> 
> 
> 
> Toilets are a necessity though, where pit bulls are not.
Click to expand...

no pet dog is a necessity. even most working dogs are not ABSOLUTELY necessary. so is it okay if i ban your lab?
necessity has nothing to do w/ liberty and that is my root opposition to all breed bans. there are plenty of tools to deal w/ irresponsible dog owners that let their animal be a pestilence to the neighborhood.


----------



## proutdoors

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



Pops2 said:


> if you don't care for them don't own one, just don't try to tell me what i can own. for me a big part of that is the fact that (although i don't own a pit nor do i want one at the moment) i have & will own dogs for hunting that get mistaken for "pit bulls" do to peoples ignorance. additionally i just find the idea of the gov't or my neighbor telling me what kind of dog i can own repulsive, just as i would if they tried to tell me what kind of gun to own, car i can drive or barbecue i could own. i feel anyone willing to throw their neighbor's liberty under the bus for their own false sense of security is an ignorant POS that is wasting air. their very mentality should be offensive to anyone that truly believes in liberty.


I agree with this, with one exception, when someone makes the personal choice to own a breed of dog that has tendencies for violence, as pit bulls DO, then they must bear the consequences if/when said animal attacks ANYONE other than the owner. I am 100% in agreement that it is bad form to have the government step in and tell an individual what kind of dog is 'allowed' in their own. Doing so is an usurpation of power and an infringement of individual liberty.

I dislike pit bulls, and I DO think they are a waste of skin (not 'waist' of skin), and I will NEVER own one or allow one in my home. BUT, and it's a big BUT, I will never advocate the government prohibiting any breed of dog from being 'legal'.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Treat the animal as an extension of the individual and dole out consequences accordingly. If your dog maims a neighbor kid, assault and battery to the owner. Kills another dog, the same felony consequences as a human killing a dog. No liberties lost.


----------



## cornerfinder

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

proutdoors, Pops2,

So would you then say it is ok to own an alligator, a full blooded wolf, coyote or rattle snake? Or are these bans ok? Do fetters give way to a higher freedom. Do my individual rights trump the rights of the populi . I absolutely think that there needs to be more personal accountability. But at what point do we stand up and say enough?

I do believe in liberty, who doesn't. But some activities are best suited for more rural areas. Not in the middle of a community. e.g. shooting bows or guns, speeding etc. etc. this is a question I posed months ago, I (we) will continue to follow these dog attacks. Like I say, I love dogs had one or more since the day I came into this world. I feel like I am a pretty good trainer and judge of a dogs disposition. Like so many of you who frequent this board. In the interactions I have with some folks, I see so many people who are truly petrified of dogs (I find this so disheartening). After watching the local Utah news for less than 6 months this is what I have found. I don't believe for one second that the media is hyping these stories in some sort of conspiracy against Pit Bulls. It's just that when an attack dose happen it's usually a LIFE CHANGING (physical and emotional) experience for the victim. No child or elder person should have to be worried that they may have their face literally chewed off because some guy who thinks he is some sort of tough guy, has the "liberty" to have this waste of dog food in there ity bity yard or apartment. I have spoken to the Salt Lake animal control officer and South Jordan's and there is a consensus among them as well, as to the real danger posed by this dog. Why wouldn't there be, they are bread for violence. The officer I spoke to said they see many immigrants who bread them for fighting. This doesn't happen with setters, or Chawawas, why because they are not inherently aggressive. So that being said, I encourage you to keep watch and see, unfortunately by year's end I expect 2+ Pit Bull attacks on someone who that dog knows is weaker than it.


----------



## pkred

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

How bout this angle all dogs are wolfs or are decendent of wolfs. Man took the wolf and domesticated it and from that all dog breeds were formed at the hand of man. None of these specific breeds were accidents they were all bred for reasons. This is what caused the physical transformation in the pit bull over hundreds or thousands of years. So by this line of reason we have noone to blame for this "monster" than ourselfs.......

Before you go throwing yourself off a bridge because of the guilt you must now feel for having a hand in creating such a deviouse and heartless animal. Think about this, maybe if you dont like the dogs DONT BUY ONE. If you or your family is attacked without provoking the animal then put it down.


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## proutdoors

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*



cornerfinder said:


> So would you then say it is ok to own an alligator, a full blooded wolf, coyote or rattle snake? Or are these bans ok? Do fetters give way to a higher freedom. Do my individual rights trump the rights of the populi . I absolutely think that there needs to be more personal accountability. But at what point do we stand up and say enough?


Can't/won't speak for Pops2, but I can for me. :mrgreen: 
I do NOT care what someone has in their possession as long as it doesn't lead to direct harm to other individuals. If some dum-dum-dummy wants to keep a rattlesnake in his bed, as long as it doesn't put others in harms way, I say go for it. No individuals rights 'trump' the rights of another individual, period. That includes those who 'fear' pit bulls. Their 'right' to be afraid does NOT trump my right to own a 'dangerous' animal. An individual's GOD GIVEN rights only extend as far as they do NOT trample on another individuals GOD GIVEN rights. It is when the "populi" (whatever that is) attempts to stifle an individual's rights based on emotions/feelings that tyranny gets a foothold on a society.

As for the media coverage, if you honestly think they don't sensationalize such things, you are mistaken. 8)


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## Pops2

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

i never said it was a conspiracy, only that the media calls it the way that will sell the most papers or generate to most ratings.
yes i believe it is entirely okay for private citizens to own alligators, wolves, bear, tigers, bison and so on. one because it is legal in many states & two there is ALWAYS STRICT liability attached. i think strict liability should be attached to ALL dog owners as well. if your dog bites someone unprovoked & you know he had tendancies in that direction (even if he never actually bit anyone) then it's felony assault. the problem is that nobody uses strict liability until the worst case happens. as i have said before if we treat them like a gun and prohibit dogs 30# & up to felons that will eliminate a huge section of the worst owners. and for the record chihuahuas have attacked & killed infants and at least one fatality has been credited to both english & irish setters. because they (like most toy breeds) are extremely aggressive but their behavior is tolerated because they are deemed too small to pose a real threat.
SIDE NOTES
i feel if you're going to put in the steel plates to stop the bullets, you should be allowed to shoot in your basement & the gov't & your neighbors should go screw themselves.
animals in small private "zoos" and kept for "educational display" make up as much as 70% of the breeding stock for some critically endangered species of animals, tigers being the big one but also for other things like primates.
in a nutshell the wants of the many DO NOT trump the rights of the few (we fought a whole big war over this issue & damaged A LOT of liberty in the process). so yes the right of the individual does trump the desires of the majority. however keep in mind that right end at the property line so to speak. as soon as you fail to restrain your dog, lion or cow and it presents a REAL threat to anyone they are within their rights to eliminate that threat & use the force of gov't to ensure that.
i pointed out real threat because in one of the stories you linked the dogs never actually threatened anyone. the cop just shot them because of how they looked, like they used to do to some people back in the day.
also you never did tell me how many pit bulls are in my pic? i'll bet you a lot of money your ACO friends can't either.


----------



## JigginJus10

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

I never understand why people get in thees stupid rants. Now I get it. Cornfinder not tryin to pick a fight with you or anyone in here but I assume you've never had a pit so I'll forgive you. My 2 cents is that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners. I'm sure if you could get over the stereo type and give one an honest shot, not only will you be humbled but very impressed. 
I can say that because I passed up rescuing my dog twice because of misinformation and stereo types about the breed. Especially since we were going to start a family soon. Doesn't feel like a family anymore unless she's with us. She's excellent with kids/infants as well. 
Pit Bulls are not the problem, so they are strong, loyal, and energetic. That's what I got her. We love our Pit!

Nuff said I'm all better


----------



## Huge29

*Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin*

Jig-I can appreciate your sentiment. My sister had your identical experience, which resulted in the stupid thing killing the neighbor's pregnant donkey. $2,000 later the dog was put down for some very poor fresh out of college young couple-very stupid decision they made and they paid seriously. I can certainly appreciate the dog being an extension of the owner, just like my Springfield XD is, but it has not ever moved from where I have left it while we were not together and has not ever threatened danger to anyone. It has no instincts or bloodlines, which influence its decisions either. There certainly is much truth in what you say that stupid people do naturally end up with stupid dogs and particularly breeds known for violence, but the dog certainly has a portion of the responsibility too.


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## cornerfinder

My best friend had one when we were kids. It used to follow us down to the jordan river to go hunting and fishing. My dad shot and killed it while it was in the process of killing 8 of our neighbors sheep. Not that he killed all 8 there was a Chow to. I really don’t need to defend my way of thinking; the facts are what they are. Pit bulls kill and maim more humans than any other breed of dog. JigginJus10, do you let your family pet around other people or dogs, is this dog your first dog? Could you turn it loose in a dog park with all the other puppies? That’s rhetorical we both know the answer.


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## cornerfinder

http://www.standard.net/topics/opinion/ ... egulations

just saying

oh and

http://www.standard.net/topics/opinion/ ... lls-needed


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## JigginJus10

cornerfinder said:


> My best friend had one when we were kids. It used to follow us down to the jordan river to go hunting and fishing. My dad shot and killed it while it was in the process of killing 8 of our neighbors sheep. Not that he killed all 8 there was a Chow to. I really don't need to defend my way of thinking; the facts are what they are. Pit bulls kill and maim more humans than any other breed of dog. JigginJus10, do you let your family pet around other people or dogs, is this dog your first dog? Could you turn it loose in a dog park with all the other puppies? That's rhetorical we both know the answer.


No it's not a rhetorical question at all. I'm glad you asked. The answer is Yes to family, yes to dogs, no to this being my first dog, Yes to dog parks & puppies if they are vaccinated. I have had other people be shocked by the breed and how gentle she can be and have had people comment on how she can get dogs to play that normally won't play with other dogs. Sorry your Dad killed your friends dog, I have a friend who isn't the best dog owner either and his dogs always make me nervous.

I think the bottom line is responsible dog owners have responsible dogs. If you don't know how to train/raise a dog and aren't prepared to exercise it properly whatever that dog does is your own fault. A tired dog is a good dog, I don't care what breed it is.


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## Guest

they just like people with good ones and bad ones too; that atitptude might get your dog ate alive. labs is just as mean with all you guys backyard breeding.


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## lehi

Klark said:


> they just like people with good ones and bad ones too; that atitptude might get your dog ate alive. labs is just as mean with all you guys backyard breeding.


You serious Klark?


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## Narient

Wow fellas... Generalize much? All pits are the devil! All pit owners are scum! You know what dogs I hate more than anything? Chows & dalmatians. Never met one that was even remotely friendly so they must all be evil. I'd like to see them all wiped out.

I may be the new guy, but I've owned several pits & would entrust each of them with the lives of my children. In fact, where I live now, the only way I let the kids go out (without me) is with the dog. I don't care what breed the dog is, any sign of aggression towards people or other dogs needs to be addressed. If it can't be weeded out, the dog should be "dealt with", but don't throw it all on the pits.


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## bearhntr

There have been many incidences where a good family with any type of guard dog has dealt with the issues that this little girl is going through. I have personally seen attacks from Pits, Dobermans, and Sheppard's. Every time the family was asked if they saw any sign of aggression they say..."No, this has been the most loyal and loving dog we have ever owned. The kids could do what ever they want to it and it would just sit there"
Most of the dogs out there will go and hide when they are done with being antagonized by kids of the family. These dogs just explode! Once their furry is unleashed look out! It is not a simple bite or nip to say hey I have warned you now leave me alone. It is I am going to take your arm, leg, FACE off because you have pushed my boundaries and now you must pay! Not all dogs are bad but dogs tend to do what is in their DNA: point, flush retrieve, attack, even be a lap dog. This is what they do and who they are so just be wise with your choice. I for one would not have a guard type dog if some payed me! My kids are too important to me to have that chance that this one is going to change my child's life forever! I do own a lab and if she bites anyone or my kids unprovoked (not if they are protecting my family) I will personally put a bullet in its head. I have zero tolerance for such things. I personally have been bitten by several dogs the most common one was a ****er spaniel but by far the worst was when I was attacked by two dobermans in a an orchard. I seriously thought I was dead. I was about twelve and if it was not for my brother and his friends I think I would have been. I get a sick feeling in my stomach when ever I see an attack type dog.


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## cornerfinder

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=16719122

I was hoping to never see this post again. But as you can see, it would be better to have alligators in your neighborhood than Pit Bulls. This is another sad illustration of what happens when you have a dog that was selectively bred for aggression and fighting. No different then when your new Pointer puppy points. It's pre-disposed to do so. My own daughter was nipped by the neighbors hound (mutt) dog last month. Thank god it wasn't more serious. As a dog trainer, owner and advocate, I know if it had been a Pit Bull it would've been more serious. Dog bites happen! But when it's a Pit, life changes. So I stand by my post. PIT BULLS, WASTE OF SKIN!!!


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## yfzduner450

But no cornerfinder, pitbulls aren't aggressive!!!! I can hear it now.


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## fixed blade XC-3

I'm not a fan of em'.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Now I'm really confused. :mrgreen:


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## Huge29

I see a post on Facebook today of an old friend's son with his face all in scars and stitches even right up against his eye. Apparently the pit bull was always so nice and now the neighbor apparently told him to not have his kids come over any more, classy people with classy dogs; they seem to be attracted to each other.


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## Pops2

i know a lady on another forum saw the same thing happen to a kid when the neighbor's lab grabbed him up. in elementary my best friends little brother got his face tore up by a ****er spaniel. i could go but the point is obvious.
starting this urinating contest again is just a waste of band width. it makes as much sense to try to teach a pig to sing.


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## fixed blade XC-3

Pops2 said:


> i know a lady on another forum saw the same thing happen to a kid when the neighbor's lab grabbed him up. in elementary my best friends little brother got his face tore up by a ****er spaniel. i could go but the point is obvious.
> starting this urinating contest again is just a waste of band width. it makes as much sense to try to teach a pig to sing.


Yep because labs do this kind of a thing all the time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -room.html :roll:


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## cornerfinder

Thanks Fixed Blade,

Pops2 

If you have any evidence of Lab attacks please share them. I certainly don’t want to be biased. That last article posted by Fixed Blade illustrates the blindness shared by Pit Bull Owners. If this was a friendly neighbor that never showed sigs of aggression, think he would still opt for a funeral for him. Buried in the same coffin as your killer (sick). Would you allow this for your daughter? That’s the mentality of Pitt Bull owners. So as I stated before, if you find any life changing dog attacks by any dog! please post the link. I think you will soon find that while all dogs may nip, bite or otherwise break human skin. No more than say a younger sibling. But you will find None… and I do mean NONE will compare to the notorious Pit Bull. Until then, please consider moving to the desert and raising rattle snakes, alligators and of course what would that be with out a few Wolves, Tigers and a few Mountain Lions. Oh… wait a minuet, these animals are not aggressive. Seriously they are not. They are predators they kill to eat and survive. Pit Bulls were selectively bread to fight and kill. There is an underground world that we are not privy to (I hope) Michael Vick types. 

Sincerely 
M


----------



## Pops2

fixed blade said:


> Pops2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i know a lady on another forum saw the same thing happen to a kid when the neighbor's lab grabbed him up. in elementary my best friends little brother got his face tore up by a ****er spaniel. i could go but the point is obvious.
> starting this urinating contest again is just a waste of band width. it makes as much sense to try to teach a pig to sing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep because labs do this kind of a thing all the time.
Click to expand...

actually, they do! a lot more often than pit bulls, but it doesn't make good news copy. being the most popular large dog breed, labs are also the large dog breed that bites more than any other (goldens & german shepards are next on both lists). they cause plenty of permanent disfigurements, just not many fatalities (some but not many). not to mention the under reporting because hey it was the neighbor's lab that never did such a thing before. and along w/ little yappers and goldens they are THE most common dog allowed to wander because dipthongs think they don't have to train or control them because "they are family dogs." 
OTH if a pit bull scratches someone in play it very often gets recorded as a bite in local stats. in several states & localities within them, a scratch that draws blood & is reported IS counted as a bite.
the breeds collectively referred to as pit bulls are in the top five breeds in total population for medium/large dogs. yet not a single breed in that group has EVER ranked higher than 17 for TOTAL bites. even combined they don't break into the top 10. this group of breeds are the ONLY group for which that is true. ALMOST ALL other breeds position on the list for total bites is within 2 places up or down from where they rank in population numbers (there are a very few, mostly asian, breeds that rank much higher in bites than their population numbers). the only numbers that are unusual are fatalities. they do cause more fatalities than any other breed or gruop. what is not openly admitted is that the numbers are skewed by
1. counting mutts that may not have any pit bulldog in them as pit bull TYPE.
2. counting 3 breeds as one while all other breeds are counted seperately
further no one likes to admit that ALL dog caused fatalities are a minute fraction of all fatalities. so pit bulldog cause fatalities are an even smaller fraction of that. for example about 300 people a year die from lightning strike in the USA every year. meanwhile only 20-30 people die from ANY DOG attack. that means you are TEN TIMES more likely to die from lightning than ANY DOG. and since pit bull TYPES cause 1/4 of all fatalities, you are FORTY times more likely to die from lightning than a pit bulldog. likewise DEER cause about 200 fatalities every year which makes them about SIX times more deadly than ALL dogs and TWENTY FOUR times more deadly than pit bulldogs. anyone want to eradicate all deer or ban lightning? it doesn't matter how a person dies it's ALWAYS a tradgedy for their family. that said, the fear is mostly media driven hype. and none of this in anyway excuses irresponsible ownership of any dog.
so in a nutshell. just like the pitbull fans say they ARE less likely to bite. it's just a lot more dangerous when they do. but overall the danger is hype more than substance.
none of this will matter to people that
1. like to let media hype drive their life & emotions
2. have had a bad experience(s) with a dog(s) that fits their idea of what a pit bull is.
however the willingness of people to legislate away their neighbors liberty based on these irrational fears will always spark outrage in those whose liberty is at risk. i honestly would like to see about 75% of pit bull owners & breeders not own ANY dog. what i am not willing to do is pass laws that empower an already disfunctional govt to attack individual liberty. because history has shown such laws don't make anyone safer and they do get misused.


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## fixed blade XC-3

Bull sh!t. show a link of a lab killing a full grown able bodied human. A lab killing a person wouldnt make the news??? I want what your smoking!


----------



## Huge29

Pops, do you seriously expect anyone to take such a crock of crap for what you call statistics seriously? Saying that labs have more bites than pit bulls is akin to saying that there are exponentionally more crimes committed by whites in the Aryan Nation world than African Americans. There are about 100x more labs than PB's, so one would expect to see at least 20x more bites. To the notion that numerous dogs are mistakenly ID'd as a PB....it is because the dog has similar characteristics. I am amazed at how many people go so far out of their way to prove to everyone that they are so calm and nice; like teaching that alligators are really quite nice, but don't mistake them for a crocodile... :roll:


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

Huge we finally agree on something. Folks please take the time to click on the last link I posted, this was a good puppy, and would never hurt a fly. The poor lady that got murdered by one of these evil toothed spawn of Satan, was an active person trying to convince people how these dogs are well mannered, and only dogs that are beat will attack


----------



## Pops2

fixed blade said:


> Bull ^&#@ show a link of a lab *killing a full grown able bodied human.* A lab killing a person wouldnt make the news??? I want what your smoking!


you do realize that even with pit bulldogs less than 20% of fatal attacks even remotely fall into this catergory. MOST fatal attacks involve children and the elderly. even among full grown adults killed many of those are in some way physically impaired, like the pregnant lady.
however from this study (DBRF means dog bite related fatalities):
Pinckney LE, Kennedy LA. Traumatic deaths from dogattacks in the United States. Pediatrics. 1982;69l:193-196.

"Pinckney and Kennedy studied human DBRF from May 1975 through April 1980 and listed the following breeds as responsible for the indicated number of deaths: German Shepherd Dog(n = 16); Husky-type dog (9); Saint Bernard (8); BullTerrier (6); Great Dane (6); Malamute (5); GoldenRetriever (3); Boxer (2); Dachshund (2); DobermanPinscher (2); Collie (2); Rottweiler (1); Basenji (1);Chow Chow (1); Labrador Retriever (1); YorkshireTerrier (1); and mixed and unknown breed (15)."

two VERY important points about this study.
1. matching was not illegal in more than half the country and the breed was not well known outside of the oldtime dogmen
2. they did NOT accept media ID of the breed but required "competant ID" by representatives of the HSUS. this is important because later studies after the HSUS media campaign to outlaw matching, show a HUGE increase in pitbull attacks and DO use media ID, which i have personally witnessed as faulty.


----------



## Pops2

Huge29 said:


> Pops, do you seriously expect anyone to take such a crock of crap for what you call statistics seriously? Saying that labs have more bites than pit bulls is akin to saying that there are exponentionally more crimes committed by whites in the Aryan Nation world than African Americans. There are about 100x more labs than PB's, so one would expect to see at least 20x more bites. To the notion that numerous dogs are mistakenly ID'd as a PB....it is because the dog has similar characteristics. I am amazed at how many people go so far out of their way to prove to everyone that they are so calm and nice; like teaching that alligators are really quite nice, but don't mistake them for a crocodile... :roll:


actually Huge, (using your race analogy) what most studies do is say that latinos, native americans and asians are really the same and so all their stats are lumped together and while we're at it we'll count anyone that remotely LOOKS mixed with these races as well EVEN if they don't have any latin, native american or asian ancestry.
then they look at the fatal attacks (and may even include act of self defense) without looking at total violent crimes committed. because somehow rape, robbery and violent assualt are not important just the killings. what i'm saying is that lumping them together is inherently incorrect and ignoring the other crimes creates a false perception that the other more numerous races are less dangerous.
since i worked a dogman's yard and have seen matches in 3 countries, including the USA before it was outlawed. i actually think most people that own them shouldn't own a goldfish. i just don't want a law saying that or a law saying they should be eradicated (they actually can serve many useful purposes in the RIGHT hands). it just sets a bad precedent. I am however all in favor of serious legal ramifications for all dog attacks. as it is most people get of with a shake of the finger & a stern talking to, if that.


----------



## Huge29

Good point Pops! Wait, what was your point? How does this study prove anything about PB's being a good dog to have? I would dare say that the PB's make up less than 5% of the US dog population while the Lab makes up about 30% if not more, yet there were 6 more fatalities...That is a pretty significant difference. 
Tell us why you like them and have them? What are your other pets?
I have a lab, fish, salamander and a cat they are all friendly except the salamander, but is fun to watch him eat worms.

Fatal attacks clearly are very rare, we agree on that. However, a serious bite is much more common and most PB's will void your homeowner's hazard insurance as it should since the insurance company will certainly get sued in the case of my friend who had his 4-year old attacked. I just really admire the dad for having not killed the dog; I would have been very upset and insisted on the useless mutt being destroyed then found a neighborhood with a little less losers in it who would even want such an animal.


----------



## Pops2

i don't own any at this time. but i have owned dogs that would fall under the type designation. beside working them as a kid i have a long history of hog hunting and many dogs in that field fall under the type designation even w/o any pit bulldog blood. in the right hands they are very useful. in the wrong hands they can be a nightmare, but that is equally true of anydog regardless of breed.
what i have right now is a greyhoundX that has caught and killed squirrel, rabbit, possum, skunk, ****, feral cat & grey fox. he has caught and held wild boar (not very well, needed the bulldog's help) and whitetail deer. i hope to get him on red fox, coyote, bobs & maybe w/ a little luck lion.
i also have a dane i picked up from the shelter in lindon. she has caught and killed **** & a coyote pup. i hope to get her on adult coyote and the cats as well. and when visiting freinds & family in TX & CA, i'll try her on hogs.


----------



## Huge29

For that purpose I could see why you would like them. My sister had one and the thing killed a neighbor's donkey, which cost her about $1,000; expensive lesson to learn.


----------



## Pops2

because several people asked here are the links to several bites serious enough to make the news keep in mind this is just what was easy to find on the net & is only intended to show that all dogs are dangerous.

little old but a pomeranian
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/09/local/me-34015

weimaraner
http://www.nowpublic.com/health/weimara ... family-dog

border collie
http://www.vosizneias.com/24219/2008/12 ... family-dog

poodle
http://www.wboc.com/story/10769319/girl ... dle-attack

golden retriever
http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news ... red-by-dog

another golden, this one w? a previous bite history
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbc ... sitesearch

yet another golden retriever
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/ ... led-by-dog

lab & labXborder collie
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articl ... 200710.pdf

another lab
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articl ... 200710.pdf


----------



## proutdoors

The problem with stats is that depending where you are looking at them, why you are looking at them, and what data you are ignoring/including allows one to come up with just about any desired conclusion. 

For me it is very simply, I have children one of whom is autistic, and I will NEVER own nor allow my children to play with a pitbull or anything resembling a pitbull. What others do around their kids is their problem, but I assure you ANY/ALL pitbull looking dogs that wander on to my property will be swiftly exterminated!


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

I'm going to get a pet rattlesnake and keep it in my back yard. While I'm at it, I think I'll buy an 84 Camaro that doesn't run and park it in my driveway, next to a stack of mud tires, random car parts, an old lazy boy that's been there for 6 years and 3 boxes of faded nudy mags that I can't bare to part with because they were my daddy's. 

I think the snake will accent the sun bleached flamingos that adorn my weed infested rock garden quite well.

What? There's garter snakes all over the place in my neighborhood. Aint no diff'rnt.


----------



## bwhntr

-_O- Stop making sense Tree! No fair!!!

Hey Pro, I own a English Pointer, Lab, and a ****apoo...can your son play with any of them??? Wait, that would make sense too, sorry to jump into this ridiculas discussion. 

I absolutly love dogs. I can't imagine anytime in my life I won't own at least one. Pits are completely worthless. I have encountered one or two that were very friendly, still would not trust one with my children. There is a cure for their irrational behavior, its called a .22 eardrop. :shock:


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

Go ask any vet what dogs they HATE to work on. #1 Chow #2 Shar Pei #3 Pit Bull. #4 Rottweiler. Or any combination of the four.

Any dog can be sharp and bite. But pits are PRONE to it. It's in their genetic makeup. Period. Look at why they are bred. That should be enough evidence right there not to ever trust them.


----------



## .45

Petey was a pit bull....the only dog breed that would work with these kids.


----------



## Pops2

the original was a pit bulldog. the dog in the remake is an american bulldog which is a butcher's type not a game/pit type.


----------



## Pops2

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Go ask any vet what dogs they HATE to work on. #1 Chow #2 Shar Pei #3 Pit Bull. #4 Rottweiler. Or any combination of the four.
> 
> Any dog can be sharp and bite. But pits are PRONE to it. It's in their genetic makeup. Period. Look at why they are bred. That should be enough evidence right there not to ever trust them.


CITE YOUR SOURCE. show us the poll.

first off Bob, 90% of the hands on is done by the vet techs not the vets themselves.
i can go to a pet dog forum where at least four members are vet techs and they will ABSOLUTELY disagree with your assesment as will the dog groomers on the board. for most of them the bulldogs across the board are their FAVORITE breed to deal with because they are steady & have a high pain tolerance so they don't snap at them.
i know this to be true because they have made these statements at least three times in in the two years i've been on it.
(although most will agree w/ the chow being on the list their number 1 PITA dog is generally something smaller & snappy like poodles & spaniels)


----------



## Pops2

two more
first proof that all dogs are dangerous when people are stupid, in this case a lab puppy
http://www.newson6.com/story/8753165/ba ... ected=true

dachshund
http://www.zootoo.com/petnews/dachshund ... nitals-121


----------



## bwhntr

Holy $h*t...are we still talking about these varments???


----------



## Pops2

bwhntr said:


> Holy $h*t...are we still talking about these varments???


unfortunately. some people will gladly let media hype drive their irrational fear. and the other side will always oppose that fear out of concern that it will be used to undermine their liberty (because history has shown it will).


----------



## bwhntr

Hmmm...maybe. However, I have more use for a coyote than I do a Pit. But, thats just me.


----------



## Pops2

bwhntr said:


> Hmmm...maybe. However, I have more use for a coyote than I do a Pit. But, thats just me.


that's fine until you decide that because you have no use for on no one should have them. it's no different than the gun grabbers targeting assualt rifles or enviro whackos targeting trucks & SUVs. i personally would have no use for any rifle or bow if the law didn't prohibit my preferred method of hunting. BUT i would never try to dictate my preference to other people as law. unfortunately the vast majority of american no longer think that way and will gladly vote away your liberty to massage their own feel goods.


----------



## wyogoob

I have a pit bull:










OK, OK, it's an old joke of mine. Some of the newbies haven't seen it. Leave me alone.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

I'd rather live next to a pedophile than a a pit bull. Truth. (I share a fence with a pit bull owner. Mean, nasty, loud critters that belong in a cage.)

And goob, I have a fruit-a-phobia as well. So keep those icky things to yourself.


----------



## wyogoob

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I'd rather live next to a pedophile than a a pit bull. Truth. (I share a fence with a pit bull owner. Mean, nasty, loud critters that belong in a cage.)
> 
> And goob, I have a fruit-a-phobia as well. So keep those icky things to yourself.


I live in Evingston: everyone lives by a pedophile and a pit bull. We just adjust; get by.

Hey, talk about icky: an '84 Camaro


----------



## NHS

Treehugnhuntr said:


> And goob, I have a fruit-a-phobia as well. So keep those icky things to yourself.


Cherries too?? :rotfl:


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

I actually have a cherry tree, planted it myself. Fortunately, the starlings get em before they even hit the ground. Only thing worse than fruit, is a fruit corpse. Only thing worse than a fruit corpse....... pit bull.

Agreed, '84 Camaro? Bad, bad ,bad. But, gotta have some place to hang the dream catcher my cocaine addicted aunt made.


----------



## wyogoob

This is the strangest thread I've hijacked this month. :roll:


----------



## Bax*

Why wont this thread die?!

-O\__- -O\__- -O\__-


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

You stop that. Goob is reliving the mid-eighties right now and you're doing a rain dance during his party.


----------



## Bax*

I have a bellybutton


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

:mrgreen:


----------



## Loke

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I'd rather live next to a pedophile than a a pit bull. Truth. (I share a fence with a pit bull owner. Mean, nasty, loud critters that belong in a cage.)


the owner or the dog?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Yes. Everyone has police over for domestic disputes every now and then, right?


----------



## cornerfinder

Hey pops, maybe you could catch this one and fight it! 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=17146232

not even a week since the last one! sheesh!!


----------



## pheaz

Bax* said:


> Why wont this thread die?!
> 
> -O\__- -O\__- -O\__-


It wont die cause it happened again. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=960&sid=17146232


----------



## Pops2

and the dog pictured is a crossbred of pit bulldog & neapolitan masiff. this can be told from the head structure and facial features alone. the neapolitan is a breed created SPECIFICALLY for MANWORK. which brings back two very important points. one is proper ID of the breed of the dog involved.
two, what is the source of the instability in the "pitt bulls" that commit the attacks.


----------



## Guest

this post is garbage; replace pitbulls with yuppie scum and then lets have a distcussion; it the owners not the dog;


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

Klark said:


> this post is garbage; replace pitbulls with yuppie scum and then lets have a distcussion; it the owners not the dog;


You're wrong. Let me guess you have a pitbull.


----------



## ROI

I will agree that the owner plays a part in whether the bite occurs. The breed determines the severity and location of the bite. Pit bulls with good owners probably bite at a rate equal to other breeds. But with a pit bull the injuries often are life changing. In my opinion there is no reason to own a breed that has that type of negative potential.


----------



## Loke

fixed blade XC-3 said:


> Klark said:
> 
> 
> 
> this post is garbage; replace pitbulls with yuppie scum and then lets have a distcussion; it the owners not the dog;
> 
> 
> 
> You're wrong. Let me guess you have a pitbull.
Click to expand...

 And he hunts koots with it.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Klark said:


> this post is garbage; replace pitbulls with yuppie scum and then lets have a distcussion; it the owners not the dog;


Chickens and eggs.......

Neck tattoo anyone????


----------



## Pops2

ROI said:


> I will agree that the owner plays a part in whether the bite occurs. The breed determines the severity and location of the bite. Pit bulls with good owners probably bite at a rate equal to other breeds. But with a pit bull the injuries often are life changing. In my opinion there is no reason to own a breed that has that type of negative potential.


actually even w/ all the crap owners and the junk breeding of mastiff mixed crap, pits still bite less. it's just more severe when they do. and yeah it's pretty much owner irresponsibility that is the main cause.


----------



## Narient

I have to agree that when a pit snaps, may the good Lord have mercy on his victim cause the pit will not. That said, if you have a bunch of kids messing with the dog day in and day out, I feel just as bad for the dog as the victim. I have seen the statistics saying that pits, PURE pits, are generally docile & those that show they're monsters. Both sides tend to be skewed with the truth being somewhere in the middle. 

Sure, this horse has been beat till it's 5th great grandchildren were dead & buried, but so long as this topic boils blood, it'll continue.  Myself, I will continue to have a pit when circumstances permit it... I just won't bring it over to most of ya'lls homes.  My last dog was a coy-dog. She was the best dog I'd ever had but knowing where her roots came from, I watched her like a hawk. She never did cause much trouble, but I watched her just in case. Pits are the same. If you have one, treat it right, be the Alpha, and do your best to keep its fuse from being lit (eg - it's not a horse, don't let your kids treat as such; don't leave the dog unattended for long periods of time; make a point to have the dog be around people and other dogs to avoid them becoming dog/people aggressive or possessive of their owner(s) ) They CAN be controlled, but it takes that paradigm shift that this isn't a goldfish...

Sorry... Getting off on a rant again.  Debate further all. I'm enjoying MOST of this. Some of these attacks are getting a little personal, if you ask me.


----------



## royta

*Re: Re: pitbulls... Waste of skin*



Klark said:


> this post is garbage; replace pitbulls with yuppie scum and then lets have a distcussion; it the owners not the dog;


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie

Hmm, I'd rather come across a yuppie than some thug trash with a pitbull practically leading him (the thug) down the sidewalk.


----------



## cornerfinder

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1794817 ... livery-man
Yet again!


----------



## Bax*

.


----------



## cornerfinder

Durn horse!


----------



## Bax*

I like that he is full on punching the horse! And in a shirt and tie nonetheless!!!


----------



## 90redryder

cornerfinder said:


> http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=17948178&title=pit-bulls-shot-after-attacking-delivery-man
> Yet again!


There may be one or two nice pitbulls out there but thats probably 1 out of every 100. These things are ridiculous. The only use for a pitbull is for a guard dog thats about all they are good for. Even at that i'd rather a big german shepherd if I needed a guard dog.


----------



## Bax*

Pulled my 11 month old lab off the fence tonight. Pitbull bit her through the chain link and was holding her by the lip. I had to poke him in the eye with a stick!

:evil:


----------



## Huge29

Was it a carbon stick with an Epek on the end?


----------



## Bax*

Sadly no. It was a chewed up tree branch my dog has been workin on. It was the closest thing I could find to jab at the stupid dog. I poked him in the eye pretty good though!


----------



## Pops2

Bax* said:


> Pulled my 11 month old lab off the fence tonight. Pitbull bit her through the chain link and was holding her by the lip. I had to poke him in the eye with a stick!
> 
> :evil:


well that is what they were bred for. well handled.


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

Pops2 said:


> Bax* said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pulled my 11 month old lab off the fence tonight. Pitbull bit her through the chain link and was holding her by the lip. I had to poke him in the eye with a stick!
> 
> :evil:
> 
> 
> 
> *well that is what they were bred for.* well handled.
Click to expand...

Biting labs through fences? Man I hate those dogs. In case you're confused, I'm not talking about labs.


----------



## pkred

[attachment=0:326azsqc]pittbull.png[/attachment:326azsqc]

OMG! the humanity.


----------



## Loke

The taxidermy on that dog is great!! Who did the work?


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

Loke said:


> The taxidermy on that dog is great!! Who did the work?


 :lol:


----------



## Bax*

fixed blade XC-3 said:


> Pops2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote="Bax*":23bjnp1i]Pulled my 11 month old lab off the fence tonight. Pitbull bit her through the chain link and was holding her by the lip. I had to poke him in the eye with a stick!
> 
> :evil:
> 
> 
> 
> *well that is what they were bred for.* well handled.
Click to expand...

Biting labs through fences? Man I hate those dogs. In case you're confused, I'm not talking about labs.[/quote:23bjnp1i]

That pit runs away every time she sees me now! :lol: I wonder if the hot sauce squirt gun was a good idea?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Loke said:


> The taxidermy on that dog is great!! Who did the work?


Chuck Testa.


----------



## pkred

:lol: The Man the Legend.
[attachment=1:1pewfrhy]Chuck.png[/attachment:1pewfrhy]

Chuck Testa Doppelganger???
[attachment=2:1pewfrhy]WyoGoob.png[/attachment:1pewfrhy]

More Pit propaganda. o-||
[attachment=0:1pewfrhy]pitsubs.png[/attachment:1pewfrhy]


----------



## cornerfinder

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2006221 ... featured-2

Nice dogs. They play well with others.


----------



## Pops2

they were bred for the specific purpose of fighting other dogs. not the dogs' fault they have turd owners that don't keep them under control.
so what is your excuse for this
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-04 ... utiful-dog


----------



## Pops2

and for those who don't believe the media intentionally misrepresents the facts here is a page capture of an alternate report of the same incident.


----------



## Huge29

I admire your zeal Pops! It is pretty rare to find a guy who just keeps fighting/debating regardless of any factual data clearly contradicting his stance, I admire that and respect that. I sure hope you are in sales, if not you have truly missed your calling in life brother!


----------



## InvaderZim

"But he never acted agressive towards anyone before..." :?

:mrgreen:


----------



## JuddCT

InvaderZim said:


> "But he never acted agressive towards anyone before..." :?
> 
> :mrgreen:


Exactly what a pitbull's owner said to me after I had to beat it off my Griff.


----------



## Mojo1

JuddCT said:


> InvaderZim said:
> 
> 
> 
> "But he never acted agressive towards anyone before..." :?
> 
> :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what a pitbull's owner said to me after I had to beat it off my Griff.
Click to expand...

three times I have had Pits grab on my hunting dogs.

All three will never do it again! :twisted:


----------



## Huge29

Mojo1 said:


> three times I have had Pits grab on my hunting dogs.
> 
> All three will never do it again! :twisted:


How did you get them off? I will guess that it meant that the waste of skin losing its heartbeat?


----------



## Mojo1

Huge29 said:


> Mojo1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> three times I have had Pits grab on my hunting dogs.
> 
> All three will never do it again! :twisted:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get them off? I will guess that it meant that the waste of skin losing its heartbeat?
Click to expand...

Very carefully placed head/neck shots, sure didn't want to hit a useful dog by mistake, especialy one of mine!


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

Pops2 said:


> and for those who don't believe the media intentionally misrepresents the facts here is a page capture of an alternate report of the same incident.


The POS lying media is famous for stunts like this. They'll talk about a rape/murder where the girl was strangled while putting up a picture of a gun on the teleprompter. Manipulation of the sheeple in it's purest form. Then, pit bull lovers will come up with the **** and bull story that they're no more dangerous than a lab because more people are biten every year by labs than any other breed. :roll: Ya, only because there are ten times more Labs than any other dog on the Planet.

Sorry dude, no sale here.


----------



## cornerfinder

just sayin http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=208...-attack-this-time-on-officer&s_cid=featured-4


----------



## izzydog

cornerfinder said:


> just sayin http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=208...-attack-this-time-on-officer&s_cid=featured-4


Oh you have to post something else up just because pits are in the news every other day? Everybody knows it's not the dogs that are the problem! It's the owners and the dogs that are the problem!


----------



## torowy

It depends on the owner and the dogs up bringing. I have known several pitbulls that would never hurt a fly.


----------



## Bax*

torowy said:


> It depends on the owner and the dogs up bringing. I have known several pitbulls that would never hurt a fly.


Bubble bubble, toil, and trouble! -O|o- -O|o- -O|o-


----------



## Critter

torowy said:


> It depends on the owner and the dogs up bringing. I have known several pitbulls that would never hurt a fly.


I worked for a utility company and those were usually the words out of the owners mouth just before the dog would bite you.


----------



## Bax*

Critter said:


> torowy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the owner and the dogs up bringing. I have known several pitbulls that would never hurt a fly.
> 
> 
> 
> I worked for a utility company and those were usually the words out of the owners mouth just before the dog would bite you.
Click to expand...

Ha ha that is my exact same experience. Especially with little dogs.

As soon as you walk into a house with tools on, dogs dont like you anymore


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

I have a cute story about pit bulls. My buddy had a pit bull this effer was huge, I was scared to death of it. He always laughed claiming it wouldn't hurt a fly. I said good luck with that. Well while he was at work his 10 year old son had a friend come over, he just walked in, didn't knock. Will that son of a bitch dog attached the kid, luckily it wasn't bad. My friend called me from the humane society, he said you're not going to believe it and told me the story. He was really bummed, but decided it was best the dog got put down. A couple of weeks later his cousin came over to his house to show him his new pit bull. Guess what, it was the dog my friend to to be put down. They just took it and adopted it to someone else. I asked if he told them it attached a kid, and that he wanted it put down. He said yes. Can you believe this poop?


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

the best pitbull there has ever been will never be as good as worst birddog.


----------



## Huge29

That is messed up Fixed! Although, your friend is kind of odd, must not have wanted to pay the fee, so he dropped it off at the HS apparently.


----------



## Fowlmouth

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23805132&nid=13 ... id=queue-9


----------



## TEX-O-BOB

Here we go again. A pit bull bit a little girls face off this weekend and she needs plastic surgery. I guess the dog was her uncles and was in a room in the house behind a door. When the little girl opened the door the dog attacked her. Two things Happened here and I dont know which one pizzes me off the most. First the guy who owns the dog KNOWS the animals propensity for attacking people unprovoked and still keeps the animal around. Second, he puts the dog in a room so the animal wont be near his niece and doesn't tell her about it. She opens the door and gets mauled. What and idiot!


----------



## Amazing_Hunting

Just had my pup latched on to last night by a pitbull. He was out in my pasture which has chain link all the way around and the pit bull actually reached through and bit him through the fence. He is luck that I was not home or I would have put a bullet in his skull.


----------



## utahtim

I was attacked by a pit as a child it luckily got the leg of my pants instead of my leg. That thing would not let go I kicked back and forth about four times before my pants tore and the dog launched about 20 feet across the yard.


----------



## Packfish

and as with all of them- none of them hunt


----------



## cornerfinder

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...tim-Identified-Dogs-In-Custody-206952301.html

shoot them all!


----------



## swbuckmaster

Pitbulls and the people that own them are generally worthless pos!

Heres a funny story though. My brother has a great pyranese mixed with a Saint Bernard. Its a big ol yard crapper. This dog is very dog aggressive but id trust it around a new born baby. Hes a gentle giant.
Well my brothers dog was barking at one of those pos pit bull owners walking his dog. The pos pit bull owner let his dog off his leash and it came at my brothers dog. My brothers dog probably out weighed it by over a hundred lbs. He picked up the pit bull in his mouth and shook it like a rag. He wouldn't let go of it and kept shaking it.


----------



## Loke

swbuckmaster said:


> Pitbulls and the people that own them are generally worthless pos!
> 
> Heres a funny story though. My brother has a great pyranese mixed with a Saint Bernard. Its a big ol yard crapper. This dog is very dog aggressive but id trust it around a new born baby. Hes a gentle giant.
> Well my brothers dog was barking at one of those pos pit bull owners walking his dog. The pos pit bull owner let his dog off his leash and it came at my brothers dog. My brothers dog probably out weighed it by over a hundred lbs. He picked up the pit bull in his mouth and shook it like a rag. He wouldn't let go of it and kept shaking it.


Where is the video??


----------



## swbuckmaster

Wish i had it.


----------



## Damiani

While I have to agree with the waste of skin idea of the OP. However, would you like someone dictating your choice of dog. What's next Wirehair's should be banned for killing cute furry animal's. Think people, think & leave well enough alone.


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool

In all actuallity pit bulls can be just as good of a dog as any other dog on the planet. Pitbulls can be trained to do anything that you guys want them to if you have the will and the know how, just like any other dog. The problem is pit's are widely popular with a certain section of society that has no clue how to do anything with them other than make them aggressive. Just like any other breed you have to select the right dog with the right personality. Can you go out and just pick up a lab or a wirehair without looking at it and maybe doing a selection test. By far and large pit's are not used to their potential and get a bad rap because they are the most popular dog for dirt bags, rottweilers have a similar problem. I own two rottweilers and a lab, as well as a Dept. owned police dog. The rottweilers don't have half the guard/fight drive that the lab does. It really depends on the individual dog and what drives the owner cultivates. These problems are 95% the owner over the dog.


----------



## Fowlmouth

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25879571&ni...an-at-mcdonalds&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-1

Lucky for these dogs the officers were so kind.


----------



## wyogoob

17 pages? 

A 400" bull elk won't get ya 17 pages.

.


----------



## cornerfinder

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27157787&ni...good-samaritans&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-1

more!-O,-


----------



## 30-06-hunter

I'm glad we live in a neighborhood where we have never seen or heard of someone owning a pit bull. Come to think of it, not many of our neighbors even have dogs. But I do have a friend in SLC that has 2 very well behaved pit bulls, I believe they are of the red nose variety of the breed and are very nice to both people and other dogs. I personally would never own one, but there are the rare ones that have been raised "right".


----------



## drakebob01

A good Pit Bull is a dead one!!! That being said, I had one of the finest hunting Labs I have ever seen, after it drew blood on the second person for no reason I put it down. Now, I have a 10 month old blk lab that my cats beat up on a daily basis! Hope the ducks don't beat up on her too much! lol


----------



## royta

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Pit-bull-bites-off-owner-s-arms-4976857.php


----------



## royta

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2012.php

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php


----------



## Huge29

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27877800&ni...ting-was-justified&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-4


----------



## swbuckmaster

An officer isn't going to just shoot a dog. Justified!


----------



## klbzdad

Hate the wastes of DNA, flesh, and fur. I particularly got a chuckle that the pit was "playing chase with another dog in the neighborhood." Riiiiiiight.....


----------



## Loke

> Police have sent the dog's body on to the veterinary diagnostics laboratory at Utah State University so a necropsy can reveal specifics regarding the dog's cause of death.


I'll bet the cause is "acute lead poisoning".


----------



## RandomElk16

You know who else hated something purely because of their breed? Nazi's. Isn't it funny that we can hate something so much without having a full understanding of them? I would bet that somewhere around 97-100% of the hates on here have never owned one. "But I saw this on the news... But i know someone who was bit... I was bit." I have been bit badly by one dog in my life... Dang thing was like the beast on sandlot. He was an all white husky. Know why he was a POS dog? The owners wanted a "hard" dog. He was secluded from positive interaction. The nicest dog I have ever met? My best friend(rest her soul) rescued pits. She was a vegan(weird because I only eat meat) and respected all animals. Her dogs were all raised vegan and enjoyed long hikes along the wasatch. Her favorite was a cuddle monster and was one of the most loyal animals I have never met. Not a chance she would ever hurt anyone. 

I won't argue that they are predisposed for a certain behavior. German dogs were bred for a purpose. However, to look at something that has a brain and a heart, which makes it one of a kind(an individual!), and hate it?? Well, that just shows that we have not evolved much over the last 100 years and that prejudice and preconceived ideas still run rampant. 

I am not trying to change anyones mind, just a thought. I am not perfect either. This is alot like when I tell my kids whats for dinner and they say ewwww. I explain that they have never tried it, and that chicken can be different from chicken when prepaired a certain way. Sometimes the ewww turns into a favorite dish.

Lastly, the only hostility in my post will be in regards to the owners being POS also. How ignorant can you be to make that statement? Seriously? This girl donated more time to "underdogs" and those in need then most. Then tragically passed. But she owned a pit, must be a pos!


----------



## klbzdad

Uhmmmm.....in 1999, I was forced to put a .40 bullet in the skull of one because he would not let go of a three year old girl. The owner was a great member of the community who placed no blame on me and not only paid financially but the whole thing ended up ruining his marriage and it was his then wife's dog. I have a full understanding of them and while its true a select few somehow keep their switch turned on to "pet", most of them at one point in their miserable life get switch to "monster". Its the breed.....and comparing those of us who despise that animal based on its breed to nazis, really? Come on!


----------



## RandomElk16

klbzdad said:


> Uhmmmm.....in 1999, I was forced to put a .40 bullet in the skull of one because he would not let go of a three year old girl. The owner was a great member of the community who placed no blame on me and not only paid financially but the whole thing ended up ruining his marriage and it was his then wife's dog. I have a full understanding of them and while its true a select few somehow keep their switch turned on to "pet", most of them at one point in their miserable life get switch to "monster". Its the breed.....and comparing those of us who despise that animal based on its breed to nazis, really? Come on!


I am sorry you had to go through that event. When a dog messes up, the owner shouldn't plead ignorance after the fact. It is good that owner respected the outcome. My animals are leash and yard kept except in the field. If i had a pit he would be kept in my private property, reduces the chance of an issue. I imagine thats why other dogs attack rates are higher, people don't see them as a threat and so they are less responsible. I believe, in most cases, time spent with an animal can keep that switch to pet, or hunter, or car buddy. I see way to many people not have their dog professionally trained because they think potty training is enough. I did not say 100% didn't have an experience, I stated ownership. I also mentioned their predisposition in my post. I just think statements like "waste of skin" are representative of a culture. No, it isn't the same as nazi germany; It doesn't exactly back up any type of professional or intelligent opinion either. The statement reads ignorance.

I mean this with all respect and delicacy to your tragic event, but if it was a lab would you feel the same way?


----------



## RandomElk16

I posted not to beat a dead horse or try and sway peoples opinions. I have just been fortunate to have known over a dozen well trained pits, never owned one though. Some of which were close to my heart. The thought of these animals having been euthanized, or killed from a pit hateful person, is upsetting. I have memories with them. Pets teach you stuff. Had I never got to know them, or had they never been given a chance is upsetting to me. The ones I know are good dogs, with big hearts and personality. I have not personally met more than a handful that were bad.

Obviously because of my good friend, the Owners being POS's comment also got to me. That was one of the more ignorant posts I have seen on here.

I am not so much looking to ride this thread in a debate. I just had to share a different train of thought. I owe it to the ones that have blessed me. They also now are a good reminder of my friend.


----------



## LostLouisianian

RandomElk16 said:


> I posted not to beat a dead horse or try and sway peoples opinions. I have just been fortunate to have known over a dozen well trained pits, never owned one though. Some of which were close to my heart. The thought of these animals having been euthanized, or killed from a pit hateful person, is upsetting. I have memories with them. Pets teach you stuff. Had I never got to know them, or had they never been given a chance is upsetting to me. The ones I know are good dogs, with big hearts and personality. I have not personally met more than a handful that were bad.
> 
> Obviously because of my good friend, the Owners being POS's comment also got to me. That was one of the more ignorant posts I have seen on here.
> 
> I am not so much looking to ride this thread in a debate. I just had to share a different train of thought. I owe it to the ones that have blessed me. They also now are a good reminder of my friend.


That's no consolation to the families of children who have been killed by Pit Bulls.


----------



## swbuckmaster

RandomElk16 said:


> Her dogs were all raised vegan and enjoyed long hikes along the wasatch. Her favorite was a cuddle monster and was one of the most loyal animals I have never met. Not a chance she would ever hurt anyone.


I bet that was a site to see all her dogs sitting around a fire eating carrots and celery while she sings kumbaya to them.

Its those type of tards that will be the first to say I had no idea ginger would do sutch a thing.

The lady who lost her face to her pet chimp comes to mind.


----------



## RandomElk16

***


----------



## RandomElk16

LostLouisianian said:


> That's no consolation to the families of children who have been killed by Pit Bulls.


No it isn't. Many things have taken lives. Doesn't mean we ban them or kill an entire species.

As typing I got on wiki and looked at dog fatalities. Most are pit bulls. I am not saying I don't see the other side. It is just unfortunate that it has happened. The dog is predisposed, but its also a choice for jacka** thugs who don't train or fix them. It still can't make me hate an entire breed.


----------



## swbuckmaster

Random
I apoligize for calling her a tard. That was over the top. 

But
I hate those dogs! My kids are constantly at risk from my pos brother in laws dogs who is 35 and still lives with ma ma. He has had three and two have died miraculously. I can breath a sigh of relief everytime one of them dies. I pray my mother or father in law has the balls to tell him he can't have another one. But no he tells them to pound sand and gets one. Every one he has had will try and attack you through the kennel! You could go up with food and it would rather kill you then eat. The fricken thing lives in the house in his bed room. God only knows what will happen if it gets out when 15 kids are downstairs playing.

The only reason I don't say or do anything is because it won't do a **** bit of good and if I did say something. The laws not on my side so if i did do something and get cought id be doing time. I have to sit around and wait for a time bomb to go off.

Ya I'd love to see those dogs eating carrots and celery "vegan food" like you say but a dogs a dog and those dogs were bred for a purpose. Those dogs are going to get some meat soon as your not looking! It might not be a kid but it might be the neighbors dog. 

Heck the nicest lab will fight the neighbors dog the only difference is it doesn't rip them to shreds or kill them.


----------



## utahgolf

swbuckmaster said:


> Heck the nicest lab will fight the neighbors dog the only difference is it doesn't rip them to shreds or kill them.


^^^^^^^
THIS
Little yapper dogs are more aggressive and will bite but a pit will "go for the jugular." I don't know how a sane or "responsible" person would take such a risk in wanting to own one of them. Even if the dog is fenced properly, kids will be kids, and make mistakes by going where they shouldn't, like a neighbors yard, But they shouldn't have to deal with the possibility of death by making a mistake like that.


----------



## RandomElk16

I apologize for going so hard in my last post. As I get older I just try to be open minded. I use to hate pits, rots, cats, and even country music! So in this I took the opportunity to offer a different view. I understand how dangerous they can be. But, the ratio of pit attacks to pits is still a small enough percentage to say most aren't bad. Also, i respect the advocates for them if they are genuine. Some said advocates have bad pits, but the real ones spend the time to hunt down dog fighting rings, evaluate/train dogs, euthinize bad ones, and remove dogs from bad owners. Its strange, but its usually pit advocates that seek out the bad pits. So without them we might have even less control. And without these wastes of skin, another dog would get the top fatality spot, another breed would be bred to fight. Always has to be a bad guy.


----------



## cornerfinder

Part of the reason I keep this thread alive has been to document dog attacks. I have seen very few that make it to the media that are not of a pit-bull terrier. Having had the fortune to work with cow dogs, gun dogs, lap dogs, toy dogs and mutts. I have had been able to see traits that are to the dog. To see a pointer point without ever have been taught. A cow dog herd and sneak up and heal a cow or sheep. These dogs have in many cases (most cases) have been removed from their parents and siblings. To say the trait has not been a learned response. It is what they have been bred for thousands of years. They do is by instinct. Your comparison to the Nazi regime is very accurate. They tried something called eugenics. It was a unsuccessful terrible thing to try. But that is *EXACTLY *what we have done to dogs since the wolf. And very successfully too! I have a retriever that will retrieve and will do so until it drops dead. It is compulsory. Pointers will stand at point until they starve. And yes terriers have been bread to attack and kill, the original purpose was vermin, rats, snakes ***** etc. without any regard to themselves. I had a schnauzer (supposedly my stepmoms)  that was unbelievable. It attacked and killed feral cats. I know that sounds silly a dog chasing cats, right. We had lots of dogs, big dogs that would never think of messing with those barn yard cats. Not to mention the pigs. So the proof is in the pudding, if you or anyone else has a dog attack post it up. I prefer a clinical scientific look. But the facts are the facts.
Most dog attacks, especially the fatal and life altering ones are pit-bull or a variation of. 
M


----------



## swbuckmaster

Thats a good example corner. Well said!


----------



## colorcountrygunner

A guy one street over has a couple pit bulls and he just happens to be friends with my next door neighbor. He comes over to their house a lot and brings the pits with him and lets them run around unleashed. They take a keen interest in me when I pull up in my truck and try to walk to my house undisturbed. It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I don't give a crap if "they are good dogs if they are raised right." I don't really feel like taking that risk. And yes, the people who own them are stereotypical white trash.


----------



## Rspeters

As a dog-lover, I have mixed feelings about Pitbulls. I do believe that there are many, many Pitbulls that never have that flip switched, however there's enough real evidence that I'll never own one. Also, in my opinion anyone that has a pitbull and young kids is stupid and selfish for putting those kids at risk in that way...that goes for any breed, or even individual dog (of a typically non-aggressive breed) that has a history of aggression towards people.


----------



## wyogoob

Here's the facts, very interesting.

Read the circumstances columns in fatal dog attacks.......sad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States


----------



## Huge29

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28294108&ni...ulls-police-say&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-3


----------



## Mavis13

One more for you; hard to tell who's at fault here; the dog or the dogs owner. Ether way this poor kid has painful road ahead.
What purpose were Pitt bulls bread for?
And why do we still breed them?

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28710012&ni...er-pit-bull-attack&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1


----------



## cornerfinder

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28710012&section=top-story

Another child, good grief!


----------



## cornerfinder

Sorry I duplicated this


----------



## cornerfinder

http://le.utah.gov/~2014/bills/hbillamd/HB0097.htm

I wish I would have known about this I would have went to speak at the committee meeting. I hope the governor Vito's it but I doubt that'll happen-O,-


----------



## wyogoob

Who's Governor Vito?

You guys got an Italian governor now? Sicilian maybe?

-O,-

Seriously, nothing funny about this story.

.


----------



## cornerfinder

Veto. 
That's twice this month. maybe I should stop using the talk to type program


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Believe it or not......it was this thread that finally convinced my daughter to get rid of a couple of purebred pitbull pups that were given to her family. I was livid when I found out that that a member from the other side of the family gave provided them as a "gift". Not to mention the fact that they were going to be in the same household as my two year old granddaughter. I had my daughter do a little research and this thread was the icing on the cake.

Only idiots give pets as gifts to other families. Those that give pitbulls are double dumb, ignorant waste of skin in-laws.


----------



## cornerfinder

That's awsome!


----------



## Huge29

Good article on the topic http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/03...hey-why-should-that-stop-you-from-owning-one/


----------



## Huntoholic

Huge29 said:


> Good article on the topic http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/03...hey-why-should-that-stop-you-from-owning-one/


Good article..............


----------



## Packfish

Pit bulls = hunting dogs------- I vote no


----------



## cornerfinder

That was an amazing article. Thanks!


----------



## Loke

http://fox13now.com/2014/04/23/mom-bites-off-dogs-ear-to-save-2-year-old-daughter-in-attack/


----------



## klbzdad

Reading the comments on the Fox website made me just a little tarded the last two days. That's one brave momma.....my experience required I draw my .40 and put the barrel on its forehead for the first shot to get it to release the three year old girl it had been mauling. The second shot was also to the forehead but standing over him as he tried to get past me and get to the girl again. Worthless breed on the planet unless you want to maul someone's children or can't afford a truck big enough to make up for your small man junk.


----------



## Huge29

This video popped up as a recommended one on youtube, I thought that it was pretty inciteful for this topic


----------



## swbuckmaster

Id like to use that technique on their owners before their pos dog has a chance to hurt someone


----------



## Fowlmouth

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30734139&ni...-14-year-old-girl&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory


----------



## utahgolf

owning a pit is like juggling hand grenades. From a liability standpoint alone, I'll never understand how a rational, sane person would voluntarily own one of them.


----------



## Groganite

They're SOOO vicious!!!! check out this video of a recent pittbull attack on a toddler in utah..WARNING GRAPHIC!!!


----------



## utahgolf

I can also find you videos of lions playing with humans.


----------



## wyogoob

I live in the slums, the ghetto, down in the Boondocks, the po’ side of town, the other side of the tracks, under the bridge, next to the crack house, north of the river, in the projects, in low-income housing, in no-income housing, Smith & Wesson Heights, on the street with no name and I own a couple of run-down duplexes in the complexes.


On the way to the complex dumpster I walk by 2 places that have pit bulls. One is loose in the house and if it ever got out I would be toast. The other is on rope. It just gives me the "look" when I walk by. I don't trust it. So I carry when I take the trash out. Good grief.

.


----------



## RandomElk16

I don't discriminate breeds as a whole and have been a pit voice on this thread. But, its the favorite dog of some of america's trashiest people. Probably all of Utah's most wanted.

I passed one of these houses, which they sit outside in their red shirts and wife beaters. Well the other day a lady was walking her grandson in his wagon when their dog comes flying on his chain up to them snapping. They keep him on the chain all day and have no grass because he paces it so much. Secluded from interaction and they like him to be tough. As grandma walked slow and cautious by, i honestly contemplated ending the dogs barking. 

I know the dogs predisposition. These gangbanger middle class white kids don't help.


----------



## wyogoob

wyogoob said:


> I live in the slums, the ghetto, down in the Boondocks, the po' side of town, the other side of the tracks, under the bridge, next to the crack house, north of the river, in the projects, in low-income housing, in no-income housing, Smith & Wesson Heights, on the street with no name and I own a couple of run-down duplexes in the complexes.
> 
> On the way to the complex dumpster I walk by 2 places that have pit bulls. One is loose in the house and if it ever got out I would be toast. The other is on rope. It just gives me the "look" when I walk by. I don't trust it. So I carry when I take the trash out. Good grief.
> 
> .


It's scary let me tell ya, but in all fairness not as scary as driving on I15 during the morning rush hour in the winter.

.


----------



## cornerfinder

Lucky kids, stupid parents


----------



## Fishrmn

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=32151017&nid=148&title=5-year-old-boy-in-surgery-after-dog-bites-drags-him&s_cid=queue-2

Here we go again. Why would anyone want to own one of those things?

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


----------



## Bax*

Good grief. Why won't this thread die?


----------



## cornerfinder

Well, what do you do? The state made it so that the city's and local municipalities can't regulate types of dogs! They can regulate types of fish, types of snakes, types of birds, reptiles and large animals. But last year the poor pit bull owners got together and said they were being singled out and picked on. Put a bill on the floor that was passed. Good grief!!!!!!



-O,-


----------



## FSHCHSR

> Good grief. Why won't this thread die


because someones personal vendetta against a breed of dog that I bet 7 out of 10 times they couldnt properly identify


----------



## cornerfinder

FSHCHSR said:


> because someones personal vendetta against a breed of dog that I bet 7 out of 10 times they couldnt properly identify


 Ya,, poor little things get a bad rap, so picked on! Pobrecito!!


----------



## Fishrmn

Bax* said:


> Good grief. Why won't this thread die?


Because all of the worthless pit bulls won't.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


----------



## ram2h2o

Pitbulls make one hell of a hog catch dog. My relatives back in MS use them and they do a great job. As far as a pet or people dog not so good!


----------



## LostLouisianian

When I was in the 2nd grade I was attacked by a dog and mauled. Not fun, not fun. I feel for this kid. My injuries were not as severe as his and thankfully they healed. I nearly lost an eye from the attack and still have some issues with that eye from time to time. It wasn't a pit bull though and I am thankful it wasn't or else it would have been worse.


----------



## klbzdad

Such a sweet puppy of a family dog....NOT. They are worthless and should be ended!!!!

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=32151017


----------



## Bax*

Fishrmn said:


> Because all of the worthless pit bulls won't.
> 
> ⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


This should make you feel better then:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=32176999&nid=148&title=man-shoots-dog-that-attacked-him-wife&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory


----------



## Springville Shooter

Too bad someone didn't shoot the owner. That's where the real fault lies. The owner should be held fully responsible for the bite, the death of the dog, and the whole thing. Mandatory year in prison if your pit bull bites someone. 90% of pit bull owners are social menaces from my observation.--------SS


----------



## Bax*

Springville Shooter said:


> 90% of pit bull owners are social menaces from my observation.--------SS


I have to agree. Seems like this "breed" of person seems to flock toward tough looking dogs like pits, mastiffs, etc. Its like it gives them street cred or something.


----------



## Huge29

http://patriotnewswire.com/2014/11/woman-sues-owners-of-dog-killed-by-her-pit-bulls/


----------



## Dunkem

Thats crazy.


----------



## Loke

Perhaps this thread would have been more aptly titled "Pit bull owners, a waste of skin..."


----------



## BPturkeys

Yeah, well, I had a Black Lab once. I beat that dog every time he tried to go sniffin around. Even the slightest indication he wanted to go hunting, I'd let him have it. He was a great dog, kids could ride on his back, pull his ears, he'd even snuggle the baby...great family dog. Then, one day I was off to work and he got out of the yard. Next thing I know, I started getting calls from my neighbors... "your dog's out running loose, he's sniffing around, he's hunting everywhere". It took hours to find him and get him back home and hidden. But talk as I could, I couldn't t convince the neighbors it wasn't my dog, like I told them, "not my dog, my dog's a sweet family pet, he'd never go out hunting". Well, to make a long story short, old Clyde, that was his name, continued to get out and terrorize the neighbors with his incessant hunting, it was kind of like he was breg to go hunting and he just couldn't help himself.


----------



## Huge29

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=32604016&ni...ed-his-pit-bull-in-self-defense&s_cid=queue-4


----------



## Huge29

http://www.tpnn.com/2015/10/07/2-wo...tm_content=2015-11-28&utm_campaign=manualpost


----------



## colorcountrygunner

Huge29 said:


> http://www.tpnn.com/2015/10/07/2-wo...tm_content=2015-11-28&utm_campaign=manualpost


Not pit bulls, but several years ago I was ran up on to the hood of my truck by a couple very aggressive acting dogs. I had a .17 HMR in my cab that if I could have somehow got my hands on would have taught Fido and Rufus a lesson. They lost interest in me after awhile and disappeared into the night. I hope the owner of the 4 pits in the story gets everything that is coming to him. What an idiot.


----------



## Bax*

I didn't know it was Easter!?

Every time I think this thread has died, it is resurrected :mrgreen:


----------



## Ali-MAc

A friends niece got attacked by a family pit bull the other week, similar outcome to this story, her face will never be the same, another "good dog that had a bad moment"

here is all I know, I did not train my pointer to be obsessed with birds, I did not train her to lock up rigid when she scents a bird, I did not train her to retrieve those birds, all I have done is to shape and refine the behaviors that were bred into that breed over many generations.

Seems that we should be aware of what is genetically programmed into the breed of dog we choose, if it is bred to fight, bite and lock its jaws then it is more likely to do that than a dog that was not bred for those behaviors, under pressure those instincts bred into the dog will surface more often and stronger than traits that were not bred in. I would not expect a pit bull to point birds naturally so it seems fair to expect it to be more likely to do what its breed was made for.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish

Ali-MAc said:


> A friends niece got attacked by a family pit bull the other week, similar outcome to this story, her face will never be the same, another "good dog that had a bad moment"
> 
> here is all I know, I did not train my pointer to be obsessed with birds, I did not train her to lock up rigid when she scents a bird, I did not train her to retrieve those birds, all I have done is to shape and refine the behaviors that were bred into that breed over many generations.
> 
> Seems that we should be aware of what is genetically programmed into the breed of dog we choose, if it is bred to fight, bite and lock its jaws then it is more likely to do that than a dog that was not bred for those behaviors, under pressure those instincts bred into the dog will surface more often and stronger than traits that were not bred in. I would not expect a pit bull to point birds naturally so it seems fair to expect it to be more likely to do what its breed was made for.


Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred for bull baiting and bear baiting.

They are used in Texas to hunt Wild Boars.

While they are not bird hunting dogs, they are still hunting dogs none the less.

The issue comes from the breeders and what they bred the breed for. Some will be more aggressive and prone to attacks than others.

From my experience at various dog parks, Pits seem to care less about other dogs and tend to associate with humans. Most are built like a brick wall and super friendly.

Their build makes and their connotation with their name gives them a bad reputation.

I have seen more aggressive labs and ankle biters than I have seen of pits, dobers, rotts, and other bad scary breeds of dogs.


----------



## Packfish

A buddy just came up to my desk- it was his niece- the pictures on the his cell phone were something else- My son-in law gave me the speech of " it's the owner not the dog and I want one- I gave him the speech about dragging his arse behind the truck if my grandkids got with on a block of one.


----------



## utahgolf

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred for bull baiting and bear baiting.
> 
> They are used in Texas to hunt Wild Boars.
> 
> While they are not bird hunting dogs, they are still hunting dogs none the less.
> 
> The issue comes from the breeders and what they bred the breed for. Some will be more aggressive and prone to attacks than others.
> 
> From my experience at various dog parks, Pits seem to care less about other dogs and tend to associate with humans. Most are built like a brick wall and super friendly.
> 
> Their build makes and their connotation with their name gives them a bad reputation.
> 
> I have seen more aggressive labs and ankle biters than I have seen of pits, dobers, rotts, and other bad scary breeds of dogs.


one big difference though, when an ankle biter bites you, you can swat it away. When a pitbull snaps, good luck!!!!!!! It's like owning a lion or tiger. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would own one from a liability/legal standpoint. Just isn't worth it.


----------



## Dunkem

Used to have a neighbor who had a pit. It killed my wife's cat, was always loose running around. One day I heard my wife scream, ran out the door and that pos dog had her cornered up against our car in OUR yard. Call me stupid but I ran to the dog and planted a foot right in the nuts then one to the throat. The dog hobbled home and the owner came running out asking wtf happened .I told him in as nice a tone as possible that next time it would be dead! I then proceeded to tell him what I was going to do to him, mind you I've got 35 years on this young man but he must have seen the blood in my eyes. Two weeks later they moved! I hate those stupid freeks of nature. Blame it on the owners, bla bla bla they are bred to fight that's all there is to it. (my opinion only) Flame me all you want , will not change my thinking.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish

utahgolf said:


> one big difference though, when an ankle biter bites you, you can swat it away. When a pitbull snaps, good luck!!!!!!! It's like owning a lion or tiger. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would own one from a liability/legal standpoint. Just isn't worth it.


Like I said they are built like a brick wall and would be great dogs for chasing hogs.

And from my experience at dog parks I have not seen anything out of a pit bull terrier that would give them that reputation.

I understand that dog parks are one thing and dogs that are kept in the house or trapped in a yard all day are another thing.

Dogs under stressful or under exercised circumstances will act a lot different than a properly trained and exercised dog.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish

Dunkem said:


> Used to have a neighbor who had a pit. It killed my wife's cat, was always loose running around. One day I heard my wife scream, ran out the door and that pos dog had her cornered up against our car in OUR yard. Call me stupid but I ran to the dog and planted a foot right in the nuts then one to the throat. The dog hobbled home and the owner came running out asking wtf happened .I told him in as nice a tone as possible that next time it would be dead! I then proceeded to tell him what I was going to do to him, mind you I've got 35 years on this young man but he must have seen the blood in my eyes. Two weeks later they moved! I hate those stupid freeks of nature. Blame it on the owners, bla bla bla they are bred to fight that's all there is to it. (my opinion only) Flame me all you want , will not change my thinking.


They are not bred to fight.

They are bred to be pets or to hunt. They used to be bred to fight bulls and bears.

The situation you mentioned is a poor dog owner.

Hunting dogs that are allowed to run are going to hunt.


----------



## FSHCHSR

Oh my hell we're still on this. A dog raised poorly is going to be a poor dog a dog raised right is going to be a good dog. I still say 90% of you couldn't properly identify a american pit terrier.


----------



## Dunkem

MuscleWhitefish said:


> They are not bred to fight.
> 
> They are bred to be pets or to hunt. They used to be bred to fight bulls and bears.
> 
> The situation you mentioned is a poor dog owner.
> 
> Hunting dogs that are allowed to run are going to hunt.


 I agree the owner is a part of it, but I've seen to many litters that the more aggressive ones are the first to go. Not picking a fight Muscle, again my opinion only!!


----------



## Packfish

One of the main problems are back yard breeders--------------


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

and fact is over the past several hundred generations most HAVE been bred to fight. Same goes for the chow but to a lesser degree, only because the pitbull is better at it.

The pitbull got it's name from "pitting" the dogs against bulls and bears. It was a blood sport that was outlawed in England. The original roots of the breed dates back to the Roman Empire when they performed in fighting arenas. Going for blood is what they have been doing for thousands of years.


----------



## wyogoob

FSHCHSR said:


> Oh my hell we're still on this. A dog raised poorly is going to be a poor dog a dog raised right is going to be a good dog. I still say 90% of you couldn't properly identify a american pit terrier.


Probably more like 95%. This is a pit bull, thank you:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.


----------



## Bax*

Goob. You are confused. That is a pitt bowl :mrgreen:


----------



## wyogoob

Bax* said:


> Goob. You are confused. That is a pitt bowl :mrgreen:


really?


----------



## Jedidiah

Simple solution to the "bad owners, not bad dogs" argument: prosecute the owners as though they had actually physically attacked the victims. Prison time for dog attacks. Though I have to agree, some breeds of dogs are automatically in the bad pile for me. If a pitbull, rottweiler or chow attack me or anyone else while I'm strapped, the dog will die.


----------



## FSHCHSR

> Simple solution to the "bad owners, not bad dogs" argument: prosecute the owners as though they had actually physically attacked the victims. Prison time for dog attacks. Though I have to agree, some breeds of dogs are automatically in the bad pile for me. If a pitbull, rottweiler or chow attack me or anyone else while I'm strapped, the dog will die.


I can agree with most of that . Owners should be held responsible no matter the breed. Any dog attacking anyone that is g8ing to cause great harm will be shot regardless of breed.


----------



## Ali-MAc

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred for bull baiting and bear baiting.
> 
> They are used in Texas to hunt Wild Boars.
> 
> While they are not bird hunting dogs, they are still hunting dogs none the less.
> 
> The issue comes from the breeders and what they bred the breed for. Some will be more aggressive and prone to attacks than others.
> 
> From my experience at various dog parks, Pits seem to care less about other dogs and tend to associate with humans. Most are built like a brick wall and super friendly.
> 
> Their build makes and their connotation with their name gives them a bad reputation.
> 
> I have seen more aggressive labs and ankle biters than I have seen of pits, dobers, rotts, and other bad scary breeds of dogs.


I agree with what you say about ankle biters, I get sick of owners who do not train or discipline their dog because it is a cute small fluffy wuffy, it is still a dog, it still needs to be trained


----------



## Viper1zer0

You guys and your"ksl" statistics . You have no research to back up your ignorant claims , most of you wouldn't even know a real pit bull if licked you. Nothing to back up anything your saying. Figures most of the crap I read on here is a crock of opinions not backed up by a piece of scientific proof . I have an " American pit bull terrier , she's my baby and yes she did try to kill 2 black labs that were attacking our 15yd old golden. Raised my two children around this great animal and have changed the hearts of many ignorant people (just like you ) .
Problem isn't the dog or the breed ....it's all you egotistical, ignorant people that get your factsite in life from other people's face book page . No matter where you go there will always be somebody with his head stuffed so far up his rectum that the possibility of an idea that was all your own is unheard of . ...


----------



## RandomElk16

Viper1zer0 said:


> You guys and your"ksl" statistics . You have no research to back up your ignorant claims , most of you wouldn't even know a real pit bull if licked you. Nothing to back up anything your saying. Figures most of the crap I read on here is a crock of opinions not backed up by a piece of scientific proof . I have an " American pit bull terrier , she's my baby and yes she did try to kill 2 black labs that were attacking our 15yd old golden. Raised my two children around this great animal and have changed the hearts of many ignorant people (just like you ) .
> Problem isn't the dog or the breed ....it's all you egotistical, ignorant people that get your factsite in life from other people's face book page . No matter where you go there will always be somebody with his head stuffed so far up his rectum that the possibility of an idea that was all your own is unheard of . ...


Earlier in this thread I was very defensive of Pits, because some are great dogs. They take hard work and care from the owner though. They can be wonderful loving dogs. So we need to be careful of being prejudice of someones dog, same as with different types of people.

However, it is easier for a neglected pit to become dangerous than it is for another breed.

If you look up fatal dog statistics, you will see why people feel how they do. Dog attacks in general aren't very common (per population) but when they do occur, Pits own a large % of them. Fatal ones are very rare, but again, pits have most of them.


----------



## wyogoob

Viper1zer0 said:


> You guys and your"ksl" statistics . You have no research to back up your ignorant claims , most of you wouldn't even know a real pit bull if licked you. Nothing to back up anything your saying. Figures most of the crap I read on here is a crock of opinions not backed up by a piece of scientific proof . I have an " American pit bull terrier , she's my baby and yes she did try to kill 2 black labs that were attacking our 15yd old golden. Raised my two children around this great animal and have changed the hearts of many ignorant people (just like you ) .
> Problem isn't the dog or the breed ....it's all you egotistical, ignorant people that get your factsite in life from other people's face book page . No matter where you go there will always be somebody with his head stuffed so far up his rectum that the possibility of an idea that was all your own is unheard of . ...


Uh...........Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation.

.


----------



## Fishrmn

Murder charges.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/murder-charge-filed-against-detroit-dog-owner-in-boys-death/ar-AAg7zF9?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

Oh, and guess which breed?

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


----------



## Bax*

wyogoob said:


> Uh...........Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation.


 Goob, I have been attacked by a hummingbird. It kept dive bombing me on a hike in Southern Utah a few years ago. It was very aggressive.


----------



## wyogoob

Bax* said:


> Goob, I have been attacked by a hummingbird. It kept dive bombing me on a hike in Southern Utah a few years ago. It was very aggressive.


You have no research to back up your ignorant claims, you wouldn't even know a real hummingbird if it licked you. Nothing to back up anything your saying. Figures most of the crap I read on here is a crock of opinions not backed up by a piece of scientific proof . I have a Calliope Hummingbird, she's my baby and yes she did try to kill 2 Monarch Butterflies that were attacking our 15-week old goldfish.................................uh.....nevermind.


----------



## colorcountrygunner

I think we all just need to get used to the fact that we will always have pit bulls in our society. If it wasn't for pit bulls then how would trashy people let everybody else know that they are tough?


----------



## Fowlmouth

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-day-old-baby-killed-by-family-dogs-california/


----------



## Rspeters

Makes me sick.


----------



## Bax*

I am neither pro nor anti pitbull. But this thread astounds me with how polarized opinions are on the matter.

Bottom line - each dog was bread with a purpose. You cant blame a Labrador for wanting to play fetch, you cant blame a Yorkie for making people question your manhood, and you cant blame a pitbull for biting / attacking. That's what each breed was bread for (selective breeding right?).

But what I am weirdly annoyed by is that each time a story pops up is that people are a) surprised that it happened again and b) the owner's act as though they didn't know such a thing could happen.

This isn't a nature vs nurture argument. This is an argument that people need to learn to control their animals and limit the possibilities of attacks happening if you own an aggressive breed.

Keep your dog in your yard. Keep your dog on a leash. Don't let strangers pet your dog. Be a responsible owner. Then people wont be so quick to jump on your case.

Speaking of owners - maybe Owners should look at a list like this before buying a dog: http://listovative.com/top-12-dog-breeds-that-bite-the-aggressive-dogs-list/

I feel like this is a weird gun control argument....

Should we ban fully automatic dogs?


----------



## cornerfinder

What really sucks is the fact that you cannot forbid having pit bulls in your city thanks to legislation signed by Gov. Herbert. You can restrict what kind of fish people can have, what kind of snakes people can own, what kind of exotic animals people can have. You can’t have a pet raccoon, I wonder how many of those kill humans every year. The list goes on and on. A few years ago the pitbull owners lobbied together and made it so that the local people in their own city cannot decide their own fate when it comes to having one of those darn waste of skins. For a state that professes to keep big government out it sure is contradictory. So it is unfortunately beating a dead horse. Your neighbor can literally have as many pit bulls as allowed. And after reading all of these, and I quit posting them is often. I can only assume that there is danger when I see one and must euthanize it on the spot.
M


----------



## wyogoob

wyogoob said:


> You have no research to back up your ignorant claims, you wouldn't even know a real hummingbird if it licked you. Nothing to back up anything your saying. Figures most of the crap I read on here is a crock of opinions not backed up by a piece of scientific proof . I have a Calliope Hummingbird, she's my baby and yes she did try to kill 2 Monarch Butterflies that were attacking our 15-week old goldfish.................................uh.....nevermind.


Holy moley, I couldn't figure what the heck this was all about. Doesn't sound like my writing, and everything is spelled correctly. Can't be me!

So I went back through this, this, lovely thread, befitting of any and all outdoor forums, and found Viper1Zer0's post, #257 on page 26. Looks like I tweaked it a little.....uh substituted a few words here and there:
_..................You have no research to back up your ignorant claims , most of you wouldn't even know a real pit bull if licked you. Nothing to back up anything your saying. Figures most of the crap I read on here is a crock of opinions not backed up by a piece of scientific proof . I have an " American pit bull terrier, she's my baby and yes she did try to kill 2 black labs that were attacking our 15yd old golden................................

_So, geeze, I apologize for being such an insensitive *******._

.
_


----------



## TPrawitt91

As the owner of a pit bull and overall dog lover I do see both sides of it. I have a 3 year old female pit bull. I can't verify if she is "pure breed" or not but she doesn't look like a mix. 

Before my wife brought her home I was nervous about pit bulls because of everything I already knew about them. 

They absolutely were breed to be powerful and they are. My dog is smaller, around 65 pounds, but she is very strong and has a strong bite. 

I have seen her chew up some impressive stuff. Very strong jaw. 

I feel like I do a good job at being a responsible pit bull owner as my dog is always on a leash when not at my house. Whether walking around my neighborhood or the mountains. I don't allow people she doesn't know well to pet or play with her. 

But the other side to it is I never really feel that worried about the dogs temperament. She was in obedience training at 4 months old and learned to behave well and listen. But overall her personality is just so calm and mellow. She isn't like most young dogs, or dogs at all in that she doesn't get hyper. Never has. Likes just laying around and taking naps. Will literally come over and whine until you put a blanket over her. 

And this behavior really surprised me. Not what I was expecting at all. I am in the opinion that my pit is an exception. I do think a lot of pit bulls have aggressive personalities. I have seen it. Seen them ( not mine ) attack people. I was attacked by one as a kid, nothing major, my dad was next to me and fought the dog off before it got to me. 

So when I hear stories like the most recent tragedy, and it truly was, I am horrified. I wouldn't allow even my dog around such a small baby. And I pretty well trust my dog around anyone in my home, she is so excited to greet anybody that comes in whether she knows them or not. 

I always have in the back of my mind just how powerful of an animal she is, and and how I know the breeds origins were breed to be aggressive. I can't imagine if she ever attacked somebody how I would react. 

But again because I know both sides of the issue I am always 100% certain my dog is under control and unable to interact with strangers, people or dogs. 

Not really taking sides or anything, just thought my experience with them is possibly a unique one. I love my pit, but I also get real nervous if I see one I don't know.


----------



## Loke

*Kahrma?*

http://fox13now.com/2016/08/17/cat-attacks-7-pit-bulls-sending-one-to-vet-and-owner-to-er/


----------



## RandomElk16

Loke said:


> http://fox13now.com/2016/08/17/cat-attacks-7-pit-bulls-sending-one-to-vet-and-owner-to-er/


Time to start a cat thread! We can't have those rascals running around slicing up dogs!


----------



## Gianthead

You say your a dog lover but call pit bulls worthless trash ? I say your worthless trash and you should be put down , and your not a very good lover of dogs . They can be one of the most mild tempered family dog out there , never saw a hunting pit bull but that don't make them worthless trash.


----------



## Fowlmouth

Gianthead said:


> You say your a dog lover but call pit bulls worthless trash ? I say your worthless trash and you should be put down , and your not a very good lover of dogs . They can be one of the most mild tempered family dog out there , never saw a hunting pit bull but that don't make them worthless trash.


I have seen a hunting pitbull. My friend Clark has one he hunts coots with.


----------



## Gianthead

Fowlmouth where do you train you dog locally ?


----------



## Fowlmouth

Gianthead said:


> Fowlmouth where do you train you dog locally ?


Lee Kay Center has a dog training area.


----------



## Bax*

Gianthead said:


> You say your a dog lover but call pit bulls worthless trash ? *I say your worthless trash and you should be put down* , and your not a very good lover of dogs . They can be one of the most mild tempered family dog out there , never saw a hunting pit bull but that don't make them worthless trash.


Per Forum Rules:



Forum Rules said:


> Please do not post rants, insults, abusive language, personal attacks or ongoing obnoxious behavior.


----------



## Fowlmouth

http://fox13now.com/2017/12/15/woman-mauled-to-death-by-her-dogs-while-taking-them-for-a-walk/


----------



## taxidermist

I don't care what breed of dog people own. Any breed can be "mean" or attack anyone, or other animals. 

I've been bitten by more "cute little" ankle rats than other breeds.

Should we put down all dogs that attack, and fine the owners more than there mortgage ? 

Maybe there should be a law passed, that prior to owning a dog, you have to pass a class that shows you are a "responsible owner". Kind of like Hunters Safety. But, how many irresponsible hunters are afield? 

There's not a solution to the issue IMO.


----------



## Huge29

Fowlmouth said:


> http://fox13now.com/2017/12/15/woman-mauled-to-death-by-her-dogs-while-taking-them-for-a-walk/


Beat me to it!


----------



## Fowlmouth

Ankle biters and people killers are two different things. Any dog is capable of biting, however some are built and designed specifically for it, Pitbulls come to mind.


----------



## Bax*

According to a random survey I looked at the following dogs bite the most :


Chihuahua
Bulldog
Pit Bull
German Shepherd
Australian Shepherd
Lhasa Apso
Jack Russell Terrier
****er Spaniel
Bull Terrier
Pekingese
Papillion
Moral of the story? Chihuahuas suck. Apparently they bite the most.

Maybe we should start a Chihuahua bite thread?


----------



## Critter

Bax* said:


> According to a random survey I looked at the following dogs bite the most :
> 
> 
> Chihuahua
> Bulldog
> Pit Bull
> German Shepherd
> Australian Shepherd
> Lhasa Apso
> Jack Russell Terrier
> ****er Spaniel
> Bull Terrier
> Pekingese
> Papillion
> Moral of the story? Chihuahuas suck. Apparently they bite the most.
> 
> Maybe we should start a Chihuahua bite thread?


All and I mean all the Chihuahuas that I have ever met have a Napoleon complex. They think that they are the meanest and baddest dog on the block until they get stepped on. Then they will come out from under the bed when your back is turned to get you.


----------



## LostLouisianian

Hmmmmmm death by Chihuahua...not


----------



## BPturkeys

The following dogs(2) may have recently killed AND eaten their owner:

Chihuahua...not
Bulldog...not
German Shepherd....nope
Australian Shepherd...na
Lhasa Apso...hardly
Jack Russell Terrier...maybe, if he ever stopped playing
****er Spaniel...don't think so
Bull Terrier..ah, no
Pekingese...really?
Papillion...never
Pit Bulls...na...oh wait...yup!


----------



## grizzly

> "Topping the list of deaths by dog in a twenty year period is the Pit Bull and Pit Bull mix at 66 human deaths. The Rottweiler and Rottweiler mix was responsibe for 39 human deaths. The German Shepherd dog and mix were responsible for 17 human deaths. The Husky type dog was responsible for 15 human deaths as was the Malamute responsible for 12 human deaths. The Chow Chow was responsible for 8 deaths while the Doberman was responsible for 9 human deaths. The Saint Bernard was responsible for 7 human deaths and the Great Dane was also responsible for 7 deaths. The Akita killed 4 people, the Bulldog 2, the Mastiff 2, the Boxer 2 and believe it or not the Labrador Retriever was responsible for 1 death..."


And of course, the Labrador retriever has been the most popular dog in America for years. People may love their pit bull, but to pretend they don't have the proclivity for violence is ignoring all available data.


----------



## taxidermist

I think this thread has been beaten down enough! I say, "Move on" !!-O,-


----------



## Bax*

taxidermist said:


> I think this thread has been beaten down enough! I say, "Move on" !!-O,-


I fully agree.

But then another news story comes up like this: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/2...aves-kentucky-woman-dead-husband-injured.html

And then this zombie thread is revived again and again and again....


----------



## LostLouisianian

I just read that when the cops found the Virginia woman the dogs were actually eating her and one had her rib cage in his mouth


----------



## colorcountrygunner

The dogs of peace strike again.

http://www.wymt.com/content/news/Woman-killed-following-dog-attack-466291063.html


----------



## cornerfinder

https://www.google.com/amp/kfor.com/2018/01/15/3-year-old-duncan-girl-mauled-by-pit-bull/amp/


----------



## Huge29

cornerfinder said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/kfor.com/2018/01/15/3-year-old-duncan-girl-mauled-by-pit-bull/amp/


And people wonder why some jurisdictions have banned them, or at least tried to??? For same reason a tiger or lion is restricted I suppose.


----------



## Fowlmouth

I guess it's not just Pitbulls anymore. The title of this thread should read "Dachshunds Waste Of Skin" :grin:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46322231/oklahoma-woman-killed-by-pack-of-7-small-dogs


----------



## RandomElk16

Fowlmouth said:


> I guess it's not just Pitbulls anymore. The title of this thread should read "Dachshunds Waste Of Skin" :grin:
> https://www.ksl.com/article/46322231/oklahoma-woman-killed-by-pack-of-7-small-dogs


I told the wife you can't trust little dogs. They are plotting against us.


----------



## bowgy

Fowlmouth said:


> I guess it's not just Pitbulls anymore. The title of this thread should read "Dachshunds Waste Of Skin" :grin:
> https://www.ksl.com/article/46322231/oklahoma-woman-killed-by-pack-of-7-small-dogs


Wow! That would be like the Chinese torture "Death by a thousand cuts".
It must of be torture for her. Pretty sad.


----------



## TPrawitt91

https://www.google.com/amp/abc7.com...s-baby-by-diaper-saves-her-from-fire/3589793/


----------



## bowgy

TPrawitt91 said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/abc7.com...s-baby-by-diaper-saves-her-from-fire/3589793/


And another one. http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...hailed-a-hero/ar-AAyvRe2?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp


----------



## TPrawitt91

bowgy said:


> And another one. http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...hailed-a-hero/ar-AAyvRe2?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp


I saw that one too.

My pitbull and 1yo daughter are best friends.

It's such an interesting topic with folks on polar opposite sides of the issue. My pitbull and daughter are great together. But I also ran into a big un-neutered male pitbull about a month ago and it tried to bite me.

Go figure.


----------



## Jedidiah

We fool ourselves about our own dogs, you never know what your dog is going to do around others for sure even if you have trained it in those situations and we should still only give that a 90% rate of assurance. No doubt pitbulls have more trouble because they are typically owned by people who don't have or won't give the means or time to train the dog in the first place. Knowing this and with my past experience with pitbulls, those animals are going to stay away from me and my dog. I'll do everything I can to accommodate the animal, go out of my way to avoid it and stay frosty cool as long as it stays away but if that animal comes for me or mine the dog and its owner are going to get a lesson in the laws concerning that encounter in a super final sort of way.


----------



## Fowlmouth

https://kutv.com/news/nation-world/2-year-old-fatally-mauled-by-pit-bulls-inside-home-08-02-2018


----------



## CPAjeff

Fowlmouth said:


> https://kutv.com/news/nation-world/2-year-old-fatally-mauled-by-pit-bulls-inside-home-08-02-2018


I'm not so concerned as what type of dog it is, but what an absolutely insane and horrible thing for that little boy.


----------



## ZEKESMAN

oy, 4, killed by family Labrador in horror attack | News24
https://www.news24.com/.../boy-4-killed-by-family-labrador-in-horror-attack-201608...
Aug 17, 2016 - The child died a short while later. The matter was being investigated, he confirmed. The dog was reportedly put down following the incident.
Little boy killed by family Labrador in horror attack | News24
https://www.news24.com/.../little-boy-killed-by-family-labrador-in-horror-attack-201...
Aug 18, 2016 - Little boy killed by family Labrador in horror attack ... The child had apparently being playing in the yard of their Bridgton home when tragedy ...
Dog killed 2-month-old baby, ripped child's legs off while father slept in ...
https://utahwildlife.net/forum/17-h...month-old-baby-ripped-child-legs-father-slept...
Apr 22, 2012 - Police believe this dog, a golden retriever-Labrador mix named Lucky, mauled and killed a 2-month-old child baby while the child's father was ...
Texas boy, 2, mauled to death by family dog | Fox News
www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/21/texas-boy-2-mauled-to-death-by-family-dog.html
Aug 21, 2017 - A 2-month-old boy has died after being mauled by one of his family's ... Police responded to a home on a report of a child bitten by a dog. ... Houston police said both dogs, a giant schnauzer mix and a Labrador retriever mix, ...
The dog breed most likely to bite you has been revealed | The ...
https://www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › Home News
Aug 1, 2016 - The family favourite labrador is responsible for the highest number of canine ... Fourteen show dogs dead in Indiana after truck air-conditioning fails in ... the summer holidays when more children and their pets in the garden, ...
Dachshund Put to Death After Mauling Md. Baby - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...death.../d05a3d2a-f857-4c1a-8f6e-c0156477c548...
Dec 27, 2002 - The 4-year-old male miniature dachshund died at 9:38 a.m., quickly succumbing to a ... the family's other dog, a large black Labrador retriever, had mauled the child, but the larger ... Polsky said small dogs have killed children.
Boy, 3, left with horrific facial injuries as Labrador savages him at ...
https://utahwildlife.net/forum/17-h...ific-facial-injuries-Labrador-savages-Poole-H...
Jun 16, 2011 - The attack was especially shocking as Labradors are known for having an ... The dog was off the lead and right next to a children's park so I .... that 'nearly killed her' Her family have already made arrangements with the facility.

I guess Labradors are a "Waste of Skin" also. Vic


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## CPAjeff

Vic -

Just a FYI, only one of your above links works - only the one about the giant schnauzer mix and lab mix worked. Additionally, per the article, "Police responded to a home on a report of a child bitten by a dog. A preliminary investigation determined the baby was left in his bassinet in a secure room when the parents stepped away. Investigators said *one* of the family's two dogs managed to open the door to the bedroom and attack the infant."

No where in the article does it say which dog it was, although both were taken and euthanized. I am not trying to be a protector of any breed of dogs, but lets make sure we are putting out verifiable facts.


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## Bax*

I had an experience tonight that I thought I would share with the forum.

Some of you may remember my thread "Free Evil Cat"from a while back. And you may remember that this cat was one tough, mean, cat.

Tonight I was cooking hotdogs for the neighborhood while my kids were trick or treating when I saw a boy chasing his pitbull who had gotten away from him.

The dog was running my direction, so I whistled at him to come to me. The dog came running my way in a friendly fashion when my cat stepped out from under my camper.

The dog and cat froze, did the circular dance for a moment and then all hell broke loose.

The pitbull got ahold of my cat and she started clawing the heck out of its face. The owner came running up and tried to break the fight up and I believe the dog bit her because her hand was bloodied up pretty good. Somehow she got loose and ran into the bushes.

I knew she was hurt but thought she would be ok.

Then I heard a neighbor screaming that the dog had my cat in their garage. I ran over but it was too late. Our cat was clearly dead, her head caved in and still in the dogs mouth while it shook the cat like a rag doll.

My neighbor locked the dog in the garage and called the police while the owner started demanding that we release their dog.

Finally the police arrived and said that the issue will be turned over to animal control and to release the dog from the garage.

Fellas, I am not one to be shocked but when that garage was opened, I was dumbfounded. Our cat was torn to ribbons and blood was all over the ground.

It was unreal to see the relentless behavior this dog exhibited tonight.

Tomorrow I will speak with animal control to determine next steps.

Right now I think that the right move is to ask for the dog to be put down. Not out of vengeance or some perverse sense of justice, but out of fear that this may happen again and maybe even to a little kid.

I have heard many times that once a dog tastes blood, the dog is ruined and will kill again. I cant have that on my conscience knowing that the dog could potentially harm someone because I decided not to pursue putting the dog down. But I recognize that the owner probably loves their dog and even though they said the cliche "she is the sweetest dog and would never hurt a fly," I dont think that I can allow the dog to live.

Thoughts?


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## longbow

I can't believe SHE doesn't have the dog put down! I love my dogs but if one of them did that I would be too afraid it would go after a child next time. 
Sorry to hear about your family pet. We had a great time making fun of her in "free evil cat" even though it was obvious you loved her. I'm sure you and your kids will miss her.


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## johnnycake

Sorry to hear about your cat. I might be in the minority on this one, but I don't really think a dog that is vicious to cats is more or less likely to be aggressive to people. We had a pair of Huskies that were terrors on cats. They ate many a cat that wandered into our yard over the years, and were quite greusome about it, but never for a second would I have considered either of them a threat to people.


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## RandomElk16

johnnycake said:


> Sorry to hear about your cat. I might be in the minority on this one, but I don't really think a dog that is vicious to cats is more or less likely to be aggressive to people. We had a pair of Huskies that were terrors on cats. They ate many a cat that wandered into our yard over the years, and were quite greusome about it, but never for a second would I have considered either of them a threat to people.


My friends red heeler will absolutely demolish any cat it sees, much like you describe. But, he will also let my infant crawl all over him, pull his hair and ears, poke him in the face, etc without even play nipping.

This scenario is hard to judge. If the dog was passing kids in costumes, and came up to you politely.. Then it could be a good dog. Dogs hating cats is a long aged tale.

Sorry about your cat. That is unfortunate.


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## Vanilla

Bax, the only thing I’m shocked about here is that animal control was not called immediately to come and take the dog. Those cops dropped the ball BIG TIME! If that dog gets loose and harms another animal, or heaven forbid, a person, the liability on that city/police department is huge. 

You are every bit in your right to ask that the dog be put down. I’m not sure what city you are in, but I suspect every one of them have an animal attack provision with a vicious animal designation in their city code. It’s crazy we don’t have one in state code, but it is what it is. If I’m the prosecutor in this city, I’m filing a charge against the owner for the animal attack and I’m 100% filing a motion for a court order to have the dog put down, regardless of what your desires would be. 

We can all talk about the age old conflict between cats and dogs, but we are in a civilized society. We can’t have domesticated animals going and killing other animals and just shrug our shoulders. If this were a bear, cougar, etc. we would be actively hunting the animal to put it down as we speak. A crap ton of resources would be utilized in killing that wild animal. Yet, some want to excuse the dog because, well...it’s cats and dogs? 

I’m not in that group. Dog should be put down, no question about it. It should have been taken right from the scene by animal control for quarantine, not released from the garage by police.


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## Fowlmouth

Sorry to hear about your cat. There are liability risks of owning any dog. I hope the dog owner makes things right with you monetarily or otherwise.


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## Vanilla

Fowlmouth said:


> There are liability risks of owning any dog.


Yes, there are - and Utah law makes any dog bite strict liability. Meaning: you own a dog and it bites, you're liable. End of story.


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## johnnycake

To be clear though, I do think that you would be fully justified to insist on the dog being put down if that is what you wanted. My prior post is mostly about the underlying concern of if the dog attacks cats does it pose a danger to people.


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## wyogoob

*Majority of deaths are from Pit Bulls*

Media reports of dog-related human deaths, 1887 thru 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

top of the page

.


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## Vanilla

Because Pantera was coming through the speakers in my office, I got a little motivation to look at that link Goob. 

According to the data on the link you posted, since 2015 there have been 96 human fatalities from dogs. 51 were identified as being pit bull or pit bull mixes. That is 53% of all fatalities coming from one breed. There were also a handful of others listed as simply "mixed breed." So that number could conceivably be higher.


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## Fowlmouth

Vanilla said:


> Yes, there are - and Utah law makes any dog bite strict liability. Meaning: you own a dog and it bites, you're liable. End of story.


Yes.....I watched a local news report not long ago and they stated this clearly. I was surprised though that the law protects the criminals from dog bites. Like if someone is breaking in your house and your dog bites them, then you are liable for their injuries. (That's how I understand the Utah dog bite laws to be anyway.) If your dog bites someone, doesn't matter who, how or why it is the dog owners responsibility. I wonder how the cops get away with their K9's biting criminals? I imagine they get sued all the time.....

https://fox13now.com/2018/06/05/utah-family-uses-dog-bite-to-fuel-fire-for-utah-law-reform/


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## Vanilla

Police K9s are not considered dogs, as you and I would own one. They are law enforcement tools, and to some extent, a law enforcement officer. You intentionally harm one and it's a 3rd degree felony. If you intentionally kill one it is a 2nd degree felony. 

And they will bite the CRAP out of you if they are released on you. Just be prepared...


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## Bax*

Spoke w animal control today. Told the officer that I’d like the animal put down and was adamantly told “no”. They said that unless the dog had a history of attacks, a judge will not order an animal destroyed. 

Sounds like my only recourse is to press charges or due for damages. 

Dumb huh?


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## Fowlmouth

Pets are considered property. So, the question is, how much value do you place on the cat? I believe you will collect damages in a small claims court, or work something out with the owner of the dog before it gets to that point.

After my neighbor shot my dog with a .303 British rifle through his kitchen window (yes I said through his window, blew it out) my dog was in my fenced backyard doing nothing. We worked out a deal with his wife to compensate us for the Vet bill (euthanizing the dog) and for the cost of what we paid for the dog. I had 2 checks within a week. I sure as hell would have filed a claim if I had to.


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## longbow

Fowlmouth said:


> Pets are considered property. So, the question is, how much value do you place on the cat? I believe you will collect damages in a small claims court, or work something out with the owner of the dog before it gets to that point.
> 
> After my neighbor shot my dog with a .303 British rifle through his kitchen window (yes I said through his window, blew it out) my dog was in my fenced backyard doing nothing. We worked out a deal with his wife to compensate us for the Vet bill (euthanizing the dog) and for the cost of what we paid for the dog. I had 2 checks within a week. I sure as hell would have filed a claim if I had to.


Wait? What?! What was his reason for doing that? The guy doesn't sound right to me.


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## Fowlmouth

longbow said:


> Wait? What?! What was his reason for doing that? The guy doesn't sound right to me.


Long story short....
My neighbor flipped his lid one afternoon and was going to kill his wife and/or baby girl. He gave his wife the choice of her their kid or my dog. His wife made the best choice and opted for the dog. He blew his kitchen bay window out shooting at my dog in my fenced backyard. It had nothing to do with the dog, it had nothing to do with barking or anything. He was mental and was going to kill somebody. My 3 daughters had just came in from playing on their swingset when I heard Boom! and the dog yelping. I opened the sliding door and walked out to see what happened and immediately saw my dog belly crawling with a broken back and my neighbors window blown out. This was back in 2002.. They moved and we moved later.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/919482/Tooele-man-is-accused-of-killing-neighbors-dog.html


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## TPrawitt91

Holy crappp!!!


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## longbow

Fowlmouth said:


> Long story short....
> My neighbor flipped his lid one afternoon and was going to kill his wife and/or baby girl. He gave his wife the choice of her their kid or my dog. His wife made the best choice and opted for the dog. He blew his kitchen bay window out shooting at my dog in my fenced backyard. It had nothing to do with the dog, it had nothing to do with barking or anything. He was mental and was going to kill somebody. My 3 daughters had just came in from playing on their swingset when I heard Boom! and the dog yelping. I opened the sliding door and walked out to see what happened and immediately saw my dog belly crawling with a broken back and my neighbors window blown out. This was back in 2002.. They moved and we moved later.
> https://www.deseretnews.com/article/919482/Tooele-man-is-accused-of-killing-neighbors-dog.html


Wow! That's a messed up story all around. I can't imagine how you felt.


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## BPturkeys

Not taking into consideration the physical characteristics of a dog, all dogs have a set of behavioral characteristics in common, that's what makes them dogs. All dog "breeds" have a set of behavioral characteristic, that's what makes the a breed. Trouble is that Pit Bull owners forget, or ignore or don't understand the "breed" characteristics of their dog. All dogs love their owners and family, including Pit Bulls, so their owners think they are just another dog...wrong! Their "breed" behavior makes them totally unacceptable as a pet that will have casual contact with other people.
By all means, Pit Bulls should not be allowed to be owned by anyone unless highly trained and licensed to own such an unpredictable and dangerous animal.


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## ZEKESMAN

BPturkeys said:


> Pit Bulls should not be allowed to be owned by anyone unless highly trained and licensed to own such an unpredictable and dangerous animal.


Pistols should not be allowed to be owned by anyone unless highly trained and licensed to own such a dangerous weapon. Accidental shooting deaths involving a pistol or revolver 2016 400+ Death by Dog 2016 less than 40.


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## ZEKESMAN

In fact bees, wasps and hornets kill 60 a year. better license them too.


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## RandomElk16

ZEKESMAN said:


> Pistols should not be allowed to be owned by anyone unless highly trained and licensed to own such a dangerous weapon. Accidental shooting deaths involving a pistol or revolver 2016 400+ Death by Dog 2016 less than 40.


Over 35K a year are killed in automobile accidents in the US alone.

Drivers ed doesn't fit "highly trained" either.


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## BPturkeys

Fellers, you can quote all the totally unrelated statistics you want, but you can't deny the fact...Pit Bull dogs kill more humans than all the other breeds of dogs in the world combined! 
If you had a car on the market that had a design flaw that was directly responsible for the death of more humans than all the other cars in the world, what do you think we ought to do about it? If we had pistols that could suddenly jump from their holsters and shoot somebody, what do you think we should do about it? 
It's this simple to me, Pit Bull dogs represent a danger to society far and above any other breed of dog on earth so society has the right to regulate them as much as the right to regulate any other threat to public safety. 
Pit Bull owners, you can get all the good things about dog ownership from any breed of dog, why would you bring such an animal into your home, take the chance it won't have a moment of crazyness and kill a friend or family member, why would you?


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## RandomElk16

BPturkeys said:


> It's this simple to me, Pit Bull dogs represent a danger to society far and above any other breed of dog on earth so society has the right to regulate them as much as the right to regulate any other threat to public safety.


I get it - you can call these other stats unrelated. The fact is the number of deaths each year from pitbulls is about the number of deaths from lawn mowers. It's smaller than the number of people who die from constipation. Those stats are to show how tiny it is.

But you can't say unrelated then say "regulate them as much as the right to regulate *any other threat* to public safety." Any other- so these aren't unrelated. Guns are a perceived threat to public safety. Should they regulate those even more? The automobiles I brought up are a threat - why not regulate that more? You said "when a gun can pull itself from a holster". Well, a human holds that gun. We are more capable of threats than a dog. Should we be regulated more?

It's just a debate to say - where do you draw the line? Is it based on percents, is it based on number of deaths? When can we allow are bias to do such actions, and are we prepared to let others biases regulate things that impact us?


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## Vanilla

If ya'll want to bring guns into the equation, then I wonder how many bites and deaths we would have if we had 357 million pit bulls running around in our country? You want to compare things, then at least be accurate in doing so. That is the number of guns estimated in the United States. 

I'm not asking for pit bulls to be banned. But people need to know what they have, and most don't because they're given the disservice of hearing ignorant comments about them being just like any other dog. They are not, and that is not even debatable.


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## RandomElk16

I am not arguing that they are like every other dog.

The American Temperament Test Society tests dogs and they were number 2 to only the Labrador. They have ability to be amazing dogs - but you are right, they need to be aware. Whether that's legit or not, I am just asking how we target one specific thing without opening the door for others to only target one thing (like X car, X weapon, X food, etc etc etc..)

Since you want to compare:
79M americans own guns - 33,636 deaths per year = .042% rate of death
5M pitbulls - 20 deaths per year = .0004% death rate

Do it by gun:
357M - 33,636 deaths = .01% rate. Still higher.

You wouldn't count the "gun" itself.. even if you wanted to and you had 71x the amount of pit bulls, that's 1,420 deaths a year. You don't have to guess. It's a much lower rate than gun deaths.

This is all in fun debate. "Common sense says these dogs are different" is what some are thinking... it scares me because "common sense says" can be used in front of a lot more damning stats about things I love.

Diligence and responsibility are great. Talking about additional laws and bans is not - we are already infringed upon in so many ways.


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## BPturkeys

RandomElk16 said:


> I am not arguing that they are like every other dog.
> 
> ... I am just asking how we target one specific thing without opening the door for others to only target one thing (like X car, X weapon, X food, etc etc etc..)


Targeting one thing at a time is how it works, how it has always worked. This is the only door we ever want to open...we examine one thing at a time and try and make the right decisions regarding it. Yes, we target x-car if it's got a dangerous problem, x-food if it has a dangerous problem, etc, so yes...we are targeting Pit Bulls(not dogs in general). 
The ONLY alternative to not targeting specific things is to target nothing. I think that's called anarchy, not freedom.


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## Vanilla

RandomElk16 said:


> we are already infringed upon in so many ways.


I wonder how badly Bax's family feels "infringed upon" by their neighbor's pit bull?


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> I get it - you can call these other stats unrelated. The fact is the number of deaths each year from pitbulls is about the number of deaths from lawn mowers. It's smaller than the number of people who die from constipation. Those stats are to show how tiny it is.
> 
> But you can't say unrelated then say "regulate them as much as the right to regulate *any other threat* to public safety." Any other- so these aren't unrelated. Guns are a perceived threat to public safety. Should they regulate those even more? The automobiles I brought up are a threat - why not regulate that more? You said "when a gun can pull itself from a holster". Well, a human holds that gun. We are more capable of threats than a dog. Should we be regulated more?
> 
> It's just a debate to say - where do you draw the line? Is it based on percents, is it based on number of deaths? When can we allow are bias to do such actions, and are we prepared to let others biases regulate things that impact us?


This thread cracks me up...people who frequent this site (not necessarily you Random) put what seemed like a high priority of being armed when heading out into the woods in fear they might be attacked by a bear. But, as soon as someone mentions putting in protections against pit bulls, we have a very long thread.

Just some more food for thought: from 2005 to 2017 pit bulls killed 284 Americans; from 1900 to 2009 bears killed 63 Canadians and Americans combined.

My conclusion? Everyone should pack heat to avoid the chance of being mauled and killed by a pit bull!


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## Bax*

Update - spoke w the pit bull owner and had a good conversation. I told him I would drop all charges if he will put the dog down. 

He is going to think on it and I’ll talk to him in a few days.


----------



## ZEKESMAN

wyoming2utah said:


> This thread cracks me up...people who frequent this site (not necessarily you Random) put what seemed like a high priority of being armed when heading out into the woods in fear they might be attacked by a bear. But, as soon as someone mentions putting in protections against pit bulls, we have a very long thread.
> 
> Just some more food for thought: from 2005 to 2017 pit bulls killed 284 Americans; from 1900 to 2009 bears killed 63 Canadians and Americans combined.
> 
> My conclusion? Everyone should pack heat to avoid the chance of being mauled and killed by a pit bull!


Just so you know, I will snuggle your pit dog unarmed. I will also brave the wilderness without a gun. Vic


----------



## ZEKESMAN

BPturkeys said:


> Fellers, you can quote all the totally unrelated statistics you want, but you can't deny the fact...Pit Bull dogs kill more humans than all the other breeds of dogs in the world combined!
> If you had a car on the market that had a design flaw that was directly responsible for the death of more humans than all the other cars in the world, what do you think we ought to do about it? If we had pistols that could suddenly jump from their holsters and shoot somebody, what do you think we should do about it?
> It's this simple to me, Pit Bull dogs represent a danger to society far and above any other breed of dog on earth so society has the right to regulate them as much as the right to regulate any other threat to public safety.
> Pit Bull owners, you can get all the good things about dog ownership from any breed of dog, why would you bring such an animal into your home, take the chance it won't have a moment of crazyness and kill a friend or family member, why would you?


Why would you bring a firearm into your home when it has been proven that a friend or family member is MUCH MORE LIKELY to be injured by that firearm than it will be used in defense of them. I like Pits. I like Labs. I hunt so I have Labs. Vic


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## RandomElk16

Vanilla said:


> I wonder how badly Bax's family feels "infringed upon" by their neighbor's pit bull?


This only further supports my fear of these type of statements.

Of course his family is sad, and they should be. There are laws and protections made for when something happens, my whole premise was "preventative" laws. Any family who has had someone die in an automobile accident they feel was avoidable is, and certainly family members of people shot feel that way.

The statement you just said fits with every gun narrative there is, and again lets not forget that guns kill exponentially more people then pitbulls (even by rate, which I showed).

I feel like you are taking a "left" agenda and saying because we disagree with creating strong laws against one breed of animal, that I am incapable of emotion and don't feel for BAX - someone I have respected for years on this forum. When in reality - I do. I feel for victims of many different things - doesn't change my stance on certain laws.


----------



## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> This thread cracks me up...people who frequent this site (not necessarily you Random) put what seemed like a high priority of being armed when heading out into the woods in fear they might be attacked by a bear. But, as soon as someone mentions putting in protections against pit bulls, we have a very long thread.
> 
> Just some more food for thought: from 2005 to 2017 pit bulls killed 284 Americans; from 1900 to 2009 bears killed 63 Canadians and Americans combined.
> 
> My conclusion? Everyone should pack heat to avoid the chance of being mauled and killed by a pit bull!


We should Ban Bears too - add it to the list.

And mountain lions. And rattle snakes. And FOR SURE spiders.

In the woods a gun makes me "feel better" - but in society it makes me feel "more better" so your statement isn't wrong!


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## Vanilla

I have never made a single statement that pitbulls should be banned. You can accuse me of taking a "left" argument and try to scare me with that all you want. I'm pretty comfortable with my politics, and certainly with my knowledge and experience on this topic at hand. 

If you want to use analogies, and we should never pass preventative laws as you put it, I guess we should take all our DUI laws off the books until someone is killed, huh? Heaven forbid we prohibit behavior we know to be extremely dangerous. Only those "leftists" care about something like that.


----------



## RandomElk16

Vanilla said:


> I have never made a single statement that pitbulls should be banned. You can accuse me of taking a "left" argument and try to scare me with that all you want. I'm pretty comfortable with my politics, and certainly with my knowledge and experience on this topic at hand.
> 
> If you want to use analogies, and we should never pass preventative laws as you put it, I guess we should take all our DUI laws off the books until someone is killed, huh? Heaven forbid we prohibit behavior we know to be extremely dangerous. Only those "leftists" care about something like that.


I am not scaring you with anything. Not trying to. My thing about leftism was directly in response to your ignorant statement inferring that I don't have compassion for Bax. Which you again follow up with an assumed stance on DUI's that is ridiculous. The left side is "Random disagrees so he thinks people should die or promotes extreme danger" - utter BS statements man.

I am saying the blanket statement about pitbulls has less damning stats behind it then guns, and sounds like what I hear about guns.

We already have laws about dog ownership and dog attacks. The comparison on this would be that in order for one race, say a white male to drive they would need to first take DUI classes and be certified in not driving drunk, while everyone else is fine.

What is being proposed is laws that dictate one specific dog and extend past what we already have because of an instance of death that is SUBSTANTIALLY lower than many other accidental deaths. Dog deaths are a fraction of a percent of accidental deaths each year - so I am saying we can't target that fraction unless we target the ones above it with equal force. Which would make me nervous.

DUI law isn't a preventative law - its a repercussion. Preventative is my example above, which would include more tests for a license, more background checks and tests for guns... Shoot if you look at accidental deaths that happen more than Dogs it would include tests about falling out of bed and constipation before you could eat. Before you can buy a bed you should have to take sleep classes because they kill more people than dogs. Before you can eat you should pass a course in constipation - which literally kills more people than dogs by a large amount.


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## .45

Bax* said:


> Update - spoke w the pit bull owner and had a good conversation. I told him I would drop all charges if he will put the dog down.
> 
> He is going to think on it and I'll talk to him in a few days.


I'm kind of curious what you could be charging him with Bax*. Not to be a smart a, but someone finally killed a cat you couldn't stand. I would assume your cat was not on a lease, free to walk the neighborhood or not even licensed. I would also assume the dog was licensed, had a collar on and apparently had at least two people trying to get their animal back home.

I had a similar chain of events as you did just a few months ago. I was able to get into the middle of it all with blood from all of us and the eventual death of my 14 year old cat. A dog with a sore head and me with a bloody arm. I didn't kill the pit nor did I really want to, he's the best ball retriever I've ever seen.

Bottom line is I did not do enough to protect my cat, nor did I realize the hatred some dogs have for certain cats. I certainly do now.

Go buy a new cat.


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## Bax*

Good question.45

The charges I pressed are for destruction of property which is a class B misdemeanor. Again it wasn’t because of hatred, malice, or revenge but more so for fear of what the dog could do if it got ahold of a child. 

I spoke with the owner today and he also expressed concern over the dog’s behavior and agreed to put the dog down if charges were withdrawn. 

So I called the animal control officer asking to withdraw charges and it sounds like it may not be that simple which is not what I had hoped for..... hopefully we can get this worked out.


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## 7mm Reloaded

Came home from work to see a Pit had killed my kids cat and wouldn't let it go. That cat put up a hella fight. That dogs face was toast. I thought about dispatching him right there instead I kicked him off my porch. Buried the cat before they came home.


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## BPturkeys

"put the dog down"...in todays world of no kill shelters, an aggressive "human Society", etc, etc, how does one get a dog "put down". I know many vets will euthanize a sic animal but are there some that will kill a dog just on request from the owner. Can an owner legally "put a dog down" or are we forced into a "3 S" scenario??


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## Vanilla

.45 - here is the relevant code on this:

_"A. Attacking, Chasing or Worrying. It is unlawful for the owner or person having charge, care, custody or control of any animal to allow such animal to attack, chase or worry any human, domesticated animal, any species of hoofed wildlife protected by any law or ordinance, or any pet or companion animal. "Worry," as used in this section, means to harass or intimidate by barking or baring of teeth, growling, biting, shaking or tearing with the teeth; or approaching any person in an apparent attitude of attack or any aggressive behavior which would cause a reasonable person to feel they were in danger of immediate physical attack.

B. Penalty Additional. Any penalty imposed as a result of prosecution of a person under subsection (A) of this section shall be in addition to any penalties or liabilities imposed upon such person by any other law or ordinance.

C. Owner Liability. The owner in violation of subsection (A) of this section shall be strictly liable for violation of this section. In addition to being subject to prosecution under subsection (A) of this section, the owner of such dog shall also be liable in damages to any person injured or to the owner of any animal(s) injured or destroyed thereby."_

Random, I have never proposed banning pit bulls. And I never said you didn't have sympathy for Bax. So keep up with that straw man all you need to so it helps you feel better about the situation. All I've done is show how flawed your reasoning has been. And yes, it is extremely flawed.


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## RandomElk16

Vanilla said:


> Random, I have never proposed banning pit bulls. And I never said you didn't have sympathy for Bax. So keep up with that straw man all you need to so it helps you feel better about the situation. All I've done is show how flawed your reasoning has been. And yes, it is extremely flawed.


Helps me feel better? lol - I feel fine. You are taking a disagreement way to personal. My reasoning for not wanted laws against one dog breed is flawed huh? In your opinion. That doesn't mean it's flawed - it's called disagreeing.

No one said Ban. BP said additional laws for owners of one breed. It's a thread, not just us two here. So my comments weren't right at you, but are against the idea that we target one thing like that - and why I am against that type of ideal.



Vanilla said:


> I wonder how badly Bax's family feels "infringed upon" by their neighbor's pit bull?





Vanilla said:


> guess we should take all our DUI laws off the books until someone is killed, huh? Heaven forbid we prohibit behavior we know to be extremely dangerous. Only those "leftists" care about something like that.


These are the statements that I interpret as you saying I don't care or have empathy. But I am sure you didn't mean to be aggressive toned or a smart*** at all.

Straw, man... straw.


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## Bax*

Well let’s all calm down on the disagreement and stand in awe that A cat as ornery as mine was actually defeated. I mean, she was one tough ol bitty. I saw her bloody my lab up pretty good a few years back. Had to pull finger nails out of my dog’s face with tweezers!

I mean, beating her is like taking the championship belt!


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## Vanilla

RandomElk16 said:


> It's a thread, not just us two here.


Except all of these responses have been directly to me. But, whatever. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.


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## johnnycake

Read this today, and I just couldn't resist.

https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/new...cle_d84ade8c-0481-57a5-a3e7-633eee2f3c7b.html


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## Jedidiah

Sorry to bring this thread to the top again but I had to say something in light of Bax's story, and that thing is that there is no justification or mitigation for that chain of events.  That dog should go immediately.

Second thing is this, and I think this makes this debate null and void: focus on dog-related human fatalities in the last 30 years and pitbulls lose. Who cares that the family lab bit someone or the ankle biters mauled the mailman through his tube socks, pitbulls kill children and adults proportionally more than any other domesticated animal. Get rid of em all, neuter every one that goes to the vet, prioritize adoptions of other breeds, require specific licenses and training for owning them, shame your neighbors for owning one.


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## TPrawitt91

You can shame me all you want 8)

Our pit bull is the best dog I have ever had. Amazing with my 1 year old. 

You can read my other responses about in this thread about how I feel about them as a breed. I have been attacked by a pit as a child. 

I think there is something to be said about training people on how to own one and have as a pet, definitely can’t just let em run free like some other breeds. 

But they can be fantastic dogs. I probably never would have gotten one on my own with my personal experience with them as a kid. 

But my wife, girlfriend at the time, had to have one. And so we got one. 

Trained her well and she is the best dog I could ask for.


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## Jedidiah

That's anecdotal experience over crushing statistical evidence. I'm not saying your dog should be put down but the trend in that breed of dog shows that it is a danger to people and especially children and there should be policies put in place to reduce the pit bull population. If your dog isn't neutered you're helping spread a public menace.


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## TPrawitt91

I don’t think so. Banpitbulls.org estimates there are 3-5 million pit bulls in the US. A microscopic percentage of those dogs ever attack a person or animal. 

I agree that the breed is associated with a few more deaths than other breeds, but I don’t think you can show me that all or even most pitbulls are likely to attack someone based on a death total. 

One stat I found says 400 deaths in the last 30 years from pit bulls. That would leave several million pit bulls that didn’t attack anybody.

An overwhelming majority are good dogs, or at least don’t end up in the news.


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## Jedidiah

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2018.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2018

Those are some pretty clear numbers, pit bulls kill people and kids.


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## TPrawitt91

Jedidiah said:


> https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2018.php
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2018
> 
> Those are some pretty clear numbers, pit bulls kill people and kids.


Again, very few pitbulls out of all the pitbulls in the country cause any harm to anybody.

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-multi-year-fatality-report-2005-2017.php

Roughly 250 deaths attributable to pitbulls over 13 years.

https://www.banpitbulls.org/what/pit-bull-numbers/

Roughly 3-5 million dogs of that breed in the country over the same

3 million dogs and 250 killers.

0.0083333333333333% of pitbulls kill people and children.

Remember that I was attacked by a pitbull as a kid. I get that people are afraid of them. I don't even like being around certain pits if I don't trust how they were/are handled by the owner.

But to say all pitbulls are killers is nonsense and most with common sense know that to be true.

There are too many of them not killing people for that to be true.


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## Clarq

But... what is their redeeming quality? What good does a pitbull offer that another breed just can't? Sure, most pitbulls are fine. But I see no reason why anyone would pick one over a lab.

Growing up, both of my neighbors had dogs. The neighbors to the west had four chihuahuas. They were nasty, aggressive little ankle-biters. The neighbors to the east had a pitbull. It was a nice dog. It never tried to hurt anything or anybody.

I still feared the pitbull way more than I feared the stupid chihuahuas. Catch the chihuahuas in a bad mood, and the worst they would do was tear at your pant leg. Catch the pitbull in a bad mood, and things simply will not end well. I just don't understand why anyone wants to live with the hazard.


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## TPrawitt91

Clarq said:


> But... what is their redeeming quality? What good does a pitbull offer that another breed just can't? Sure, most pitbulls are fine. But I see no reason why anyone would pick one over a lab.
> 
> Growing up, both of my neighbors had dogs. The neighbors to the west had four chihuahuas. They were nasty, aggressive little ankle-biters. The neighbors to the east had a pitbull. It was a nice dog. It never tried to hurt anything or anybody.
> 
> I still feared the pitbull way more than I feared the stupid chihuahuas. Catch the chihuahuas in a bad mood, and the worst they would do was tear at your pant leg. Catch the pitbull in a bad mood, and things simply will not end well. I just don't understand why anyone wants to live with the hazard.


I can agree with you on wanting to own one, never really wanted to after being attacked by one(along with a German Shepard) as a kid. But it came with the wife, and she is a great dog. (The pitbull)

I would never get a lab again because they chew sprinklers and generally destroy things, although I was a kid when we had one so I wasn't involved much in its training I will say that.

My pitbull went through extensive training because I understood the risk involved, which I think is where the problem lies in many of the "trouble" dogs.

You have to remain in control, in that dogs eyes, at all times. A disobedient pitbull is a slippery slope. You have to trust me on that part, I know of a pitbull owned by my wife's friends, and I no longer go to their house. The dog has alpha male issues every time I step in the house and I won't go back, because I am nervous that dog will attack me. Even the owners don't know why he acts that way. I know it's because he wasn't trained well.

My dog got in trouble tonight because it wouldn't stop kissing the faces of another of my wifes friends and her kids. Every time they stop paying attention, here comes that dog with another lick to the face.

In my opinion it's all about training and relationship to the animal.

That's the last time I'm getting sucked into this debate.

Also, I will admit I probably won't get another pitbull after this one goes.

I do prefer other breeds. This particular dog has been awesome for me.

Last thought, the argument of why prefer that one over another could be made about literally any breed for any subjective reason. Of course you don't see why, but others will see why, for reasons you also won't understand.


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## Clarq

TPrawitt91 said:


> But it came with the wife, and she is a great dog. (The pitbull)


Haha, nice clarification. ;-) Had to laugh when I saw that.


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## TPrawitt91

Clarq said:


> Haha, nice clarification. ;-) Had to laugh when I saw that.


I promise we are probably more alike than not, even though I have a pitbull haha


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## ZEKESMAN

Clarq said:


> But... what is their redeeming quality? What good does a pitbull offer that another breed just can't? Sure, most pitbulls are fine. But I see no reason why anyone would pick one over a lab.
> 
> Growing up, both of my neighbors had dogs. The neighbors to the west had four chihuahuas. They were nasty, aggressive little ankle-biters. The neighbors to the east had a pitbull. It was a nice dog. It never tried to hurt anything or anybody.
> 
> I still feared the pitbull way more than I feared the stupid chihuahuas. Catch the chihuahuas in a bad mood, and the worst they would do was tear at your pant leg. Catch the pitbull in a bad mood, and things simply will not end well. I just don't understand why anyone wants to live with the hazard.


I can answer that. Home protection. I will give you a list of houses, you can go break into one. I will even let you take a handgun, it needs to be holstered as you enter. Up for a game? 
I don't have a Pit now, but when I did I didn't worry much about my kids being abducted. Vic


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## bowgy

I guess I will keep the Shi Tzu, my grand kids could eat her before she ate them, and she couldn't do much to an intruder but she could wake my wife in time to wipe the sleep out of her eyes and pick up the AR15.

I think that they are a cross between a cat and a throw pillow. They will just lie on the couch and ignore you until until they darn well please ...... or if you have food that they want.


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## Critter

Well, it wasn't a pitbull but a husky.

While there is a lot of blame to go around the kid is the one that is going to have to live with just one hand.

Parents teach you young kids not to even think about petting strange dogs, or even ones that they haven't been around.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dogs-bites-off-hand-utah-boy-trying-play-151844752.html


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## RandomElk16

Critter said:


> Well, it wasn't a pitbull but a husky.
> 
> While there is a lot of blame to go around the kid is the one that is going to have to live with just one hand.
> 
> Parents teach you young kids not to even think about petting strange dogs, or even ones that they haven't been around.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/dogs-bites-off-hand-utah-boy-trying-play-151844752.html


That was an incredibly hard article to read. I can't imagine my kids going through that type of trauma. I hope the boy ends up ok.

Can't even blame the dog. A fuzzy sock object wiggling under the fence was easily seen as a toy (or a bunny).

EDIT - Leaving my original text as it went with the original story. In light of the parents side, it is even worse now and really hard to hear what the father was going through trying to stop it. Again, I hope the boy and his family can find healing.

Not sure how the news got it sooo different. or why they would have wanted to. Effortless journalism?


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## bwood

Labs were bred for retrieving for how many generation? Most labs, even out of uncontrolled breeding, love to retrieve. Pits were bred and selected for what? For how many generations? I don't understand why so many people assume that the 'best' in genetics will persist and the bad is just environmental. The 'bad' is still very close to the surface in a pit's genetics and nobody knows 100% when or what will trigger a response.


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## johnnycake

The mom of the boy posted some details of what happened according to them. Quite different than what is in the original article posted here. I'll post up the screenshots tomorrow. 

Sad situation no doubt


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## johnnycake




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## CPAjeff

JC - thanks for posting those - horribly sad deal for the little boy and his family.


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## Packout

Interesting post Johnny. Well that is contrary to the News' reporting. Crazy that they still say chain-link fence, then show video of the vinyl fence.

And for more cuddly, loyal pitbull news-- 
https://www.theepochtimes.com/babys...uled-6-month-old-to-death-police_2827356.html

..


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## Bax*

I feel weird liking your comment but I’m glad it helps clarify what happened


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## johnnycake

Yeah this whole situation is sad, but makes way more sense once the parents' side of the story came out.


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## one4fishing

I wish the news wouldn’t have messed up the story from the start. All the tender heart PETA types are raising hell about the dogs being quarantined. They need to hear the moms side of the story so they’ll quit crying and talking badly about the child and his parents.


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