# 2015 deer hunt proposals



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

http://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1526-recommended-hunt-changes-for-2015.html 
What do you guys think? I think it would be awesome if they could pass some of these!


----------



## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I wish a dedicated elk hunter program was part of those proposals...-O,-


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I would also like to see some LE Archery Elk hunts during the rut.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

People argue all the time we need more mature bucks to breed the does, so hey, lets make a new deer hunt where people can focus on killing more mature bucks at their most vulerable time!

Sorry I'm fully against all the deer proposals. 

Whats going to happen is they are going to pass this, then the Expo will want their share of the "few tags" which in turn will get bought by the same couple of millionares who will get to hunt longer. Average guy gets nothing out of it, 'cept to watch for fewer big bucks left around to do the breeding.

Pass on the deer proposals... leave it as it is. The Mt Goat season lengthening is a good idea though.

-DallanC


----------



## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I would also like to see some LE Archery Elk hunts during the rut.


Alright you got me, that's the most important proposal that could ever happen in this danged state!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> Alright you got me, that's the most important proposal that could ever happen in this danged state!


Even in a general area. Just one. One week long. Anywhere with elk and no rifles. Even split the Uintas in half North and South and rotate every year.

Anything. Please.


----------



## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

DallanC said:


> People argue all the time we need more mature bucks to breed the does, so hey, lets make a new deer hunt where people can focus on killing more mature bucks at their most vulerable time!
> 
> Sorry I'm fully against all the deer proposals.
> 
> ...


^^^This

If they do pass this late muzzleloader hunt I would hope it is part of the LE point pool and not general.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Hate the late deer proposal, don't mind the LE all 3 seasons for deer proposal, other than that I'm against the rest , there's no reason for all these changes every year. Get something and stick with it a while.


----------



## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I wish they'd extend the extended to monroe.


----------



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

I agree on the point of the late muzzleloader being part of the LE pool. It sounds like there will be very few tags given anyways so I doubt very many bucks or mature bucks will be taken. I think the "premium" deer tag is a very good idea though.


----------



## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Sad, sad, sad. Whatever happened to just let people hunt? We need hunter recruitment or hunting is done and gone. See any hunter recruitment here?


----------



## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

These are all state regulations, just so you anti-fed boys are paying attention.

Ingrid Newkirk approves.


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Why do you need 200,000 hunters going after 30,000 harvests? Thats keeping hunting alive?
I beg to differ that hunting is dead or dying. 

Recruitment, what about retention? If the dad and grandpa and uncles don't hunt the youngsters won't either. What's wrong with making a kid wait to shoot a nice buck. I'm still waiting.


----------



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

martymcfly73 said:


> I wish they'd extend the extended to monroe.


But only for spike elk and only with rifles


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

If you want kids to learn how to swim build more pools. Giving special hrs to the limited amount of pools available won't keep kids swimming. Especially when adult swim is over packed and there's so much pee in the water it's unbearable to most. Build more pools! Eliminate policy that limits the building of more pools. And swimming will be saved.


----------



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Nothing wrong with any of those changes--- I like them.

Weres the proposall to close spike elk hunting on the Wasatch?
Oh ya, And end control cow permits on there too----Heard that was in the works.


----------



## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I would also like to see some LE Archery Elk hunts during the rut.


I'd like to see the LE rifle season taken COMPLETELY out of the rut and split the rifle into two seasons, Mid October (early) and all of December (in concert with the late cow hunt). Split the rut between archery and muzzy (less success percentages). But then again, I won't hold my breath......


----------



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> Split the rut between archery and muzzy (less success percentages). But then again, I won't hold my breath......


Ummm, case you havn"t noticed....

The LE elk muzzy hunt has cought the best part of the rut for years ...
EXSTREAMLY high success rates.....:shock:.....:!:......

This is really only an archery issue if you want to hunt elk during the rut.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

the rut will run in cycles between the end of the rifle and into the muzzy. For the most part though it does fall in the rifle. The past two years have been great examples of the rut falling more into the muzzy and this year especially.

I get the fact that the rifle and the rut brings in a mess of money for the state but there is really no reason that one or part of one of the general units can be made to hunt with a bow during the rut. The youth hunts take that time right now.


----------



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> Sad, sad, sad. Whatever happened to just let people hunt? We need hunter recruitment or hunting is done and gone. See any hunter recruitment here?


I couldn't disagree more.
I like these new proposals.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Finnegan said:


> Sad, sad, sad. Whatever happened to just let people hunt? We need hunter recruitment or hunting is done and gone. See any hunter recruitment here?





ridgetop said:


> I couldn't disagree more.
> I like these new proposals.


One problem with hunter recuitment is that the kids don't want to hunt. There were over 2000 youth tags for deer that went unused this year the last time that I looked at it, so where are all these youth hunters at that want to go hunting. From what I have seen with the kids now days is that they would rather do something else like play with their computer games than hunt and when they do go hunting they take the games with them so that they can play them when nothing is happening. 
I have a nephew that is like this. He wants meat for his freezer but he is unwilling to do the work to get it. I couldn't even get him out of the truck when a 2 point was presenting himself to be shot. We were not road hunting but the deer was there. The sad thing is that he in in his 30's now and has never even cleaned a deer but he has shot several.


----------



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I like extending the LE elk muzzleloader by a few days since it opens on a wednesday. Gives guys who have to work two weekends instead of one.


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Critter said:


> One problem with hunter recuitment is that the kids don't want to hunt. There were over 2000 youth tags for deer that went unused this year the last time that I looked at it, so where are all these youth hunters at that want to go hunting. From what I have seen with the kids now days is that they would rather do something else like play with their computer games than hunt and when they do go hunting they take the games with them so that they can play them when nothing is happening.
> I have a nephew that is like this. He wants meat for his freezer but he is unwilling to do the work to get it. I couldn't even get him out of the truck when a 2 point was presenting himself to be shot. We were not road hunting but the deer was there. The sad thing is that he in in his 30's now and has never even cleaned a deer but he has shot several.


Agreed.

I've noticed a trend the last several yrs of woman and children harvesting trophy animals. Every time I look into hunting mag there's some cute lady with an animal of a lifetime. Now I'm seeing kids in the same situations. Every issue, almost like this is the norm. Don't get me wrong I know there are some real hard core huntresses out there. And youth hunters too. But I have to wonder if there isn't a longtime hunting maniac behind these kids and wife's shooting monsters living vicariously.

My father has 16 pts going toward a Henry's deer. He's more than willing to let a grand kid pull the trigger if one shows even the slightest interest. If and when it happens the post hunt photo won't be a true representation of the whole hunt. Me and dad and cousins will put 100s of hrs scouting then bring the kid in to do the deed. We will love it. The kid? Who knows probably won't hate it but it's not likely to turn him into a hunting nut like us.

So is it a good thing for us? Sure but does it result in increased recruitment? I don't think so.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Good point. 4 years ago on my wifes rifle hunt we ran into a guy who married a neighbor girl I grew up with. He was lamenting that when each of his kids turned 16 (the age to hunt back then) he paid big money for private land tags and each kid killed a monster buck as their first deer. He said they never showed any interest in hunting after that... he was up alone when we met him beating the brush, but sad not one of his kids cared to be there with him.

You gotta get that desire to hunt instilled in them early. We had that thread not long ago about "what age to take kids hunting", my response was to post a picture of our boy at 1 years old holding a deer my wife had shot. There is no starting age, just take'em along and keep it fun for them. 

Fishing is another great way to get young kids interested in the outdoors, they LOVE a fish bending those barbie poles making runs while they hang on. Get'em started young and you are GTG, wait till they are 12 or older to introduce them to it and its a lost cause more often than not. I had my boy shooting a .22lr under *careful* supervision at age 2, he thought it was hilarious and always wanted to go plinking from then on. By last year he'd saved up enough money to buy his own hunting rifle and then proceeded to kill 2 antelope and an elk with it that first year (added another antelope and a elk this year, and that's not counting the deer he smoked with my frontstuffers).

I'm truely sorry for the dads (and moms) out there that have kids that don't show an interest in it. Being out there together hunting is a highlight of my year.


-DallanC


----------



## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I know of several guys who's kids have killed bigger deer than I have in their first two years alone. The one kid, he doesn't know crap about scouting or hunting. His dad and the mountain neighbors that own the ranch they hunt on do all the work. Even the ranch owners complain their kids have zero interest in keeping the ranch running and will parcel it out and sell as soon as he dies. Natural hunter progression through experience is all but dead.


----------



## osageorange (Nov 20, 2010)

Do you buy them fishing rods and toy guns, or electronic toys, when there four years old?
Do you take then camping (a lot) and let them learn to be comfortable in 40 degrees, in a tent, or rent a motel and eat at the cafe, when there three years old?
Do you take then hunting with when there six years old, or do you go with your friends and leave them home until there a little older?
Do cut two inches off the stock of a brand new BB gun, so they can reach the trigger then set up a box in your back yard and load the BB gun, a thousand times, when there four years?
Do you teach then to build a fire and cook a hot dog, when there 8 years old?
Do you let there friends come over and sleep in a tent, in the back yard, for there seventh birthday.
Do you take them out to spot deer and elk, 50 days a year, when there 8 years old?
Do you have then in wood and water often enough, when there 7 and 8 years old to see hawks take rabbits, an owl take song bird, a snake eat mice, see wind blow down trees, beavers dam creeks, fish jump for insects, watch a porcupine lumber cross a meadow, osprey catch trout, coyotes pounce on mice, elk roll in the mud, muskrats build houses and make tunnels, king fisher catch minnows, snow drip through the mahoganies, listen to elk bugle, watch a snake swim a pond, smell a skunk, watch a turkey strut, watch a mother duck herd her babies to water, see a badger back down his hole, eat the end off a sprig of wild grass, skip rocks on a lake, learn to swim, set a trap, build a snare, climb a tree, chop wood, drink from a spring, bath in a mountain lake, sleep under the stars, paddle a canoe, sharpen a pocket knife, go skinny dipping. Do you let them set with you in duck blind and watch ducks spill air and explain hoe bird fly when there six years old? Do you have a bird dog they can play fetch with everyday after school?
Do you let then come along and carry you pheasant, at the "pheasant farm" when there 8 years old? Do you buy them warm boots and wind/warm parkas when there 7 years old? Do you stop and check every rock, stump, and bush they think might be a deer, when there 6 years old? Do you give in when they cry and fuss because there tied and cold or do you pick them up and carry them, so you can go a little further, when there four years old? Do you clean there first fish for them or let them rip it to pieces trying to get the guts out? Do you help the skin out there first squirrel and tie it's tail on the antenna of your pick-up?

Or do you buy them video games, do you go golfing Saturday mornings, while they munch a bowl of cereal in front of Sponge Bob, do make sure they never get a chill, do you protect them from all danger- real or imagined, do you make sure they never miss a day of school, do you wait until they aren't quite so young, do you make sure they have constant supervision and lecture them constantly on the endless things that could happen to them if they leave your side, do you leave your fishing rod at home when you take them fishing? 

If you really want to know how to recruit youth, go back over the last five years and read the posts from swbuckmaster, as he's raised his girls? 

You can complicate it and blame it on the times, or the kids, if it makes it go down better. Kids, for the most part, do exactly what there parents teach then to do.

It's not brain science, boys!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I wish your parents taught grammar.


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

osageorange said:


> Do you have then in wood and water often enough, when there 7 and 8 years old to see hawks take rabbits, an owl take song bird, a snake eat mice, see wind blow down trees, beavers dam creeks, fish jump for insects, watch a porcupine lumber cross a meadow, osprey catch trout, coyotes pounce on mice, elk roll in the mud, muskrats build houses and make tunnels, king fisher catch minnows, snow drip through the mahoganies, listen to elk bugle, watch a snake swim a pond, smell a skunk, watch a turkey strut, watch a mother duck herd her babies to water, see a badger back down his hole, eat the end off a sprig of wild grass, skip rocks on a lake, learn to swim, set a trap, build a snare, climb a tree, chop wood, drink from a spring, bath in a mountain lake, sleep under the stars, paddle a canoe, sharpen a pocket knife, go skinny dipping. Do you let them set with you in duck blind and watch ducks spill air and explain hoe bird fly when there six years old?


Did you show them a cougar kill? And teach them a cougar will kill on average one deer a week? The number one thing doe die of in Utah. Not yearling buck.

Or are you leaving them ignorant of this realty of nature?

Or if you believe otherwise that yearling buck starve doe and fawn out. The starving deer during winter. Or depleted habitat caused from our nearly overpopulated deer herd.


----------



## osageorange (Nov 20, 2010)

Good points Iron Bear. Certainly do need to expose them to habitat, starvation, predation, hunter ethics realities. Each principle, in it's time and place, so as not to frighten or overwhelm them but those are critical realities youth need to appreciated for them to become life long hunters and woodsman and women. Kids with an outdooor back ground, experienced from an early age have no problem understanding predator/prey issues. They'll also understand principles of starvation, if it's explained to them when there old enough to understand the realities of wildlife zoology.


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

klbzdad said:


> Even the ranch owners complain their kids have zero interest in keeping the ranch running and will parcel it out and sell as soon as he dies.


Tell him I have a solution to fix that. Leave the ranch to me, and it won't be parceled out. Im a team player like that!


----------



## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I wish your parents taught grammar.


I liked that one!


----------



## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> i know of several guys who's kids have killed bigger deer than i have in their first two years alone. The one kid, he doesn't know crap about scouting or hunting. His dad and the mountain neighbors that own the ranch they hunt on do all the work. _*even the ranch owners complain their kids have zero interest in keeping the ranch running and will parcel it out and sell as soon as he dies.*_ natural hunter progression through experience is all but dead.


are they hiring?? ;-)


----------



## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Critter said:


> One problem with hunter recuitment is that the kids don't want to hunt. There were over 2000 youth tags for deer that went unused this year the last time that I looked at it, so where are all these youth hunters at that want to go hunting. From what I have seen with the kids now days is that they would rather do something else like play with their computer games than hunt and when they do go hunting they take the games with them so that they can play them when nothing is happening.
> I have a nephew that is like this. He wants meat for his freezer but he is unwilling to do the work to get it. I couldn't even get him out of the truck when a 2 point was presenting himself to be shot. We were not road hunting but the deer was there. The sad thing is that he in in his 30's now and has never even cleaned a deer but he has shot several.


He's shot several deer and never cleaned one? That's the parent's fault NOT his! I'll clean my son or daughter's first deer, and then after that, they are in charge and I'll assist as needed. Too many people hold their kids hands and do the heavy lifting for them because it's "easier" (whether it be hunting or life in general)...and then they wonder why their kids turn out the way they did.

Sorry...rant over. Get his hands dirty. He might appreciate it more than you would think after the fact.


----------



## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

I like what I see on all deer proposals!

However,

I'd like to see the muzzy late dates pushed back a week and the north slope rifle hunt pushed up two weeks!


----------



## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

These proposals all seem pretty reasonable to--Provide some quality and some opportunity.


----------



## fishspook (Sep 21, 2007)

I think you old farts are great; and I love reading your ramblings, but I think you are missing the mark on hunter recruitment. Of course it is important, even critical for the future of our sport. On that we can all agree. However, I've noticed a trend during my many, should have been working, hours that I've spent reading your words over the last few years. It seems that any of you would bend over backwards to help a youth have a positive experience hunting. Then you'd pray that the experience becomes a lasting memory and a spark that ignites a lifelong love of the outdoors. All the while, if the same youth waits ten years, comes on this forum as a young adult, introduces himself as a new hunter interest in learning your ways, and asks for help; you blast him for not having done enough work on his own, discourage him from reaching out for help, and send him out on his own to what is almost certainly not a positive experience.

Now, obviously I am generalizing, and not everyone on here is like that. I'm also probably exaggerating to show a point. The idea is to consider the hunter recruitment possibilities that exist with adults, especially those adults that are asking to be recruited. 

These young adults may not have had the chances as a youth to be involved. Also, they are already been passed that time in their lives when choices take you down a lifestyle that isn't conducive to being a hunt addict. Sure, they are adults and should be able to do it themselves if they only put in half the work that you've put in walking barefoot to school uphill both ways, but I'll be the first to tell you that it is not easy to break into this sport if you didn't grow up around it. 

Obviously take your kids fishing and hunting as I do with mine, but consider taking an adult that shows interest too.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

fishspook said:


> I think you old farts are great; and I love reading your ramblings, but I think you are missing the mark on hunter recruitment. Of course it is important, even critical for the future of our sport. On that we can all agree. However, I've noticed a trend during my many, should have been working, hours that I've spent reading your words over the last few years. It seems that any of you would bend over backwards to help a youth have a positive experience hunting. Then you'd pray that the experience becomes a lasting memory and a spark that ignites a lifelong love of the outdoors. All the while, if the same youth waits ten years, comes on this forum as a young adult, introduces himself as a new hunter interest in learning your ways, and asks for help; you blast him for not having done enough work on his own, discourage him from reaching out for help, and send him out on his own to what is almost certainly not a positive experience.
> 
> Now, obviously I am generalizing, and not everyone on here is like that. I'm also probably exaggerating to show a point. The idea is to consider the hunter recruitment possibilities that exist with adults, especially those adults that are asking to be recruited.
> 
> ...


Personally I think this forum is more helpful than any others I have seen. Last year before my bison hunt I had guys that went so far overboard helping me that it became the biggest and only real let down of not filling the tag.

Prior to my brothers Wasatch elk hunt, which we had never hunted before, we actually had guys give us coordinates of wallows

The key to this forum and getting help is to get on well before the hunt, be honest and be willing to put in the work and make it apparent that you are going to pay things forward. It is very easy to see the hit and runs hopefuls. They get nothing from me anymore. Otherwise I have given coordinates to wallows, springs, great bear hunting spots and any useful information that I can on gear and equipment.

Aside from that, where else can a guy learn about one eyed deer and what makes a good head cheese in the same place?


----------

