# Keeping meat cold



## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

So I am trying to figure out a better way to get my meat cooled down in the cooler. I am under the impression that it is bad to put the meat in plastic so I just use game bags, but that let's the meat get wet. I also don't like letting the meat get wet in the cooler because it seems to change the consistency, color, texture, and flavor of the meat. I have tried setting cookie sheets on top of the blocks of ice but it seemed to keep the meat from cooling quickly and still ended up getting the meat wet once the ice melted. How do you all manage your wild meat once it's in the cooler?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I use frozen water filled apple juice jugs. When it melts, there is a small amount of condensation that gets on the meat, but definitely less than the amount of water when blocks of ice melt. Depending on the size of your cooler, you can arrange the jugs to keep the meat suspended with only a small amount of meat touching the jugs. 

Dry ice might be another option, but I’ve never tried that route ...


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Debone the meat. Put in gallon zip locks and cut corners off. Lay on blocks of ice and let blood drain out of bags. Rotate and re ice for 10 days then cut and grind to your liking. You’re gonna probably get lots of different answers but that is how I do it.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

If we got a critter down and wanted to stay out a few more days, we would quarter out the animal and lay it on the truck bed at night. The truck bed metal would cool down to air temp and transfer into the meat. At a 9,000 ft elevation, frost was a common occurrence. Then we would hang the meat up in the shade under a pine tree and wrap it in a sleeping bag to keep it cool during the day. Having a few game bags was a good way to keep the bees, flies and hornets off the meat and helped keep the sleeping bag clean. Now mind you, this is what we did during the archery season. If you are general season hunting in late October, temps are much colder and cooling the meat and keeping it cool is much easier. Just make sure you let the air get to it to dry it out and keep it from spoiling. Meat laying on itself is a sure way to get it to spoil.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

bow_dude said:


> If we got a critter down and wanted to stay out a few more days, we would quarter out the animal and lay it on the truck bed at night. The truck bed metal would cool down to air temp and transfer into the meat. At a 9,000 ft elevation, frost was a common occurrence. Then we would hang the meat up in the shade under a pine tree and wrap it in a sleeping bag to keep it cool during the day. Having a few game bags was a good way to keep the bees, flies and hornets off the meat and helped keep the sleeping bag clean. Now mind you, this is what we did during the archery season. If you are general season hunting in late October, temps are much colder and cooling the meat and keeping it cool is much easier. Just make sure you let the air get to it to dry it out and keep it from spoiling. Meat laying on itself is a sure way to get it to spoil.


The last 3 times we killed deer on the pine valley unit in Oct it was 85 or higher during the day and maybe 65 at night. Last year during the general season elk hunt in Oct was the first time in 10 years of hunting the southwest desert unit where it was cold enough for me to feel comfortable hanging the meat, we hung our cow and spike for 4 days in a pinion and the meat was the best I have had yet. We just harvested two antlerless deer on the enterprise unit this Friday and with the high summer temps it took a lot of ice to get the meat cooled and it got me thinking of ways to get the meat cooled in a cooler without getting the meat wet.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Don't use dry ice unless you want it frozen.

Frozen bottles are a great way to cool meat down. But let nature help you out to begin with.
If you are boning out let the air cool it down for awhile. Spread it out so the air can circulate while you work on the rest. You would be suprised how much the meat cools in a short time.

Quarters are a bit trickier. But separating the quarters and hanging where cool Air can circulate for awhile will help.

As the air cools into the season it becomes easier. A lot less to worry about in October than August.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I cut up an old broken plastic pallet I found to make a 1" square grid plate I can set in the bottom of the cooler to keep the meat up off the bottom of the cooler and allow for drainage. Keep the cooler drain plug open so the water doesn't build up, if needed find a piece of tubing to insert into the drain plug so the water can drain without getting everything wet in the back of a pickup. Frozen plastic jugs work great since they don't leak water all over but block ice works great if you can keep the water drained.

Are you base camping? With a trailer? A chest freezer works great for holding meat. I've been able to hold meat for 10 days at 42 degrees and lower in my chest freezer only running the freezer a couple hours a day once the meat is cooled. I have my freezer on a Harbor Freight lawn cart so I can roll it in and out of the toy hauler, before the toy hauler we just put the freezer in front of the utility trailer we used to haul camping gear. Once home I have a temp controller I plug the freezer into which will hold the temp at what ever temp I set it for while I process the meat.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I have no problem keeping my meat in ice cold water and I've never thought it to taste bad. In fact, I think it probably helps in the aging process.
Sometime I've had to transport my game about 6 hours in the bed of the truck. In that case I'll use three big tarps and throw in a couple 10 lb. bags of ice and then wrap it all up. Using a silver tarp on top to reflect the sunlight.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

muddydogs said:


> Once home I have a temp controller I plug the freezer into which will hold the temp at what ever temp I set it for while I process the meat.


muddy, i've been looking at these on amazon. it would be nice to turn my small chest freezer into a meat locker for a week. which model controller did you go with?


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

https://www.amazon.com/WILLHI-WH143...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I've had the unit since 2016. It's not been used a ton, maybe a week a year but it works good for the price tag and measures the same temp as my temp alarm I put in it just in case theirs an issue.

https://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Alert...reezer+alarm&qid=1564975722&s=gateway&sr=8-12

I have two of these alarms, one in each freezer and pay $24 a year for text message alerts. The system already saved about 60 pounds of game meat when my freezer plug failed last summer and I was out of town. Got a text saying my freezer temp was past the set point, called a buddy and he cleaned the freezer out and stored the meat until I got home.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Nothing wrong with putting your meat in plastic bags to keep water off...as long as the meat is cooled first. I always use game bags to hang and cool meat first, but once cooled, I have no issue using plastic garbage bags to keep the meat dry. I do leave the tops open to allow some air to circulate. Never had any issues doing it this way.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Are you talking keeping meat cool in camp or at home?


In the field, we use a HUGE cooler. We freeze salt water, it has a colder freezing point than normal water so it stays cooler longer. To get meat cooler faster, I cut 14" pieces of half inch pvc pipe, holes drilled through the sides on each end then tied together about 3" spacing in a ladder looking thing with paracord. Lay on meat, then put on a layer of the pipe, then another layer of meat. This lets cold air get between the layers of meat and keeps things nice and cool (as long as the ice holds out). Layering meat over the ice with pipe inbetween also keeps the ice from immediately starting to melt.


Dont need a fancy expensive cooler, a 120qt igloo cooler from walmart for $40 works fine.



-DallanC


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## bow_hunter44 (Feb 3, 2019)

DallanC said:


> Are you talking keeping meat cool in camp or at home?
> 
> In the field, we use a HUGE cooler. We freeze salt water, it has a colder freezing point than normal water so it stays cooler longer. To get meat cooler faster, I cut 14" pieces of half inch pvc pipe, holes drilled through the sides on each end then tied together about 3" spacing in a ladder looking thing with paracord. Lay on meat, then put on a layer of the pipe, then another layer of meat. This lets cold air get between the layers of meat and keeps things nice and cool (as long as the ice holds out). Layering meat over the ice with pipe inbetween also keeps the ice from immediately starting to melt.
> 
> ...


Clever idea! But what does "... holes drilled through the sides on each end..." mean? And why?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

bow_hunter44 said:


> Clever idea! But what does "... holes drilled through the sides on each end..." mean? And why?


I believe the holes are for the cord so the pvc can be lashed together to make a "ladder" ? That's how I read it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> I believe the holes are for the cord so the pvc can be lashed together to make a "ladder" ? That's how I read it.


yea... sorry its hard to describe properly... and I dont have a picture.

So yea, imagine a "rope ladder" made of 1/2" pvc pipe, about 3" spacing. It just keeps the pipe from rolling all over. The whole purpose is to create air gaps between layers of meat for faster cooling / drying.

Primarily, I stack quarters of meat on top of each other with pipe spacers inbetween. We cut up quarters when we get back home.

-DallanC


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

2 liter soda pop bottles frozen with water in them works just fine. 
The trick is to not overload the cooler with meat so you can get enough in there to keep it cool. 
I use a 145 qt and a 85 qt and that will hold 1 elk on the bone.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

We camp next to a small stream that runs pretty cold (<40 degrees). We just drop our coolers straight into the stream and let it help keep things cold. No problems with our meat staying cold...


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

Depending on the the hunt and your plans with the meat the whole moister concern may be over blown. We have a plan to get anything we take into a processor asap! Our antelope usually get from field to processor within an hour.

I have noticed that one of our processors actually hoses down the entire carcass after it is skinned and before it goes into the cold locker, and the hundred or so animals our group has taken have all turned out well. So I am willing to get the animal wet with condensation or a little ice water if it means getting it cooled down asap.

In some cases, when we wanted to process our own or didn't have time to wait for processing, we were able to just hang the carcass at a processors for a fee. So that could be another option for you.


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## kodoz (Nov 4, 2016)

Seems like I always get my does after 2p and a mile from the truck. Plus, I'm slow when it comes to quartering them up. I've started gutting them right away, then getting the skin off. Once I skin a part, it goes in a game bag in the shade, and I let evaporative cooling do it's part until I can pack everything back to the ice chest. Took the recommendation from you guys to use frozen plastic bottles--our tenant has an addiction to Arizona Ice tea, which works out since they're square.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Thanks for all the posts, I really like the idea of frozen bottles to keep the water off the meat because everytime I have got meat wet it changed the color to brown and changed the texture. I tent camp so taking a freezer is out of the question but I like the idea of having a temperature regulated freezer at home so I could age my venison for a longer amount of time. I will stick to boning out my venison and placing it into game bags then I will throw it in the cooler with frozen bottles below and above and I will make sure to rotate the meat a couple times a day. It is so hot where I hunt I will try to fill a cooler with a few chucks of dry ice and a bunch of frozen bottles so I will hopefully have enough ice to get me back home.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

If you are worried about ice dedicate a cooler for the purpose of keeping it as long as you can.
If you can before the hunt pre cool the cooler either using more ice /frozen bottles or best of all freezing the cooler.
Load it with your frozen items and add a little dry ice, tape it closed with duct tape.
Try to keep the cooler in the shade and place a wet towel over the top. Keep it wet if you can. Evaporative cooling will amaze you as to how long ice will last.
Remember every time you open the cooler you let out the cold and let in the heat. Keep it to a minimum.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

ns450f said:


> Thanks for all the posts, I really like the idea of frozen bottles to keep the water off the meat because everytime I have got meat wet it changed the color to brown and changed the texture. I tent camp so taking a freezer is out of the question but I like the idea of having a temperature regulated freezer at home so I could age my venison for a longer amount of time. I will stick to boning out my venison and placing it into game bags then I will throw it in the cooler with frozen bottles below and above and I will make sure to rotate the meat a couple times a day. It is so hot where I hunt I will try to fill a cooler with a few chucks of dry ice and a bunch of frozen bottles so I will hopefully have enough ice to get me back home.


Along with frozen jugs of ice, we also use 2" PVC filled 3/4 full of water and capped at each end. The condensation isn't as much, more durable, and you can make them any length you need. Full length for the bottom of your cooler and layer between bags of meat. Smaller sizes can be fit in where needed. Placing a piece of 1 to 1-1/2" sytrofoam insulation on top between the meat and lid helps a bunch also.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

High Desert Elk said:


> Along with frozen jugs of ice, we also use 2" PVC filled 3/4 full of water and capped at each end.


If you do this, you should add some salt (lower the freezing point). They'll last even longer this way.
Measure them and cut them to fit your specific cooler. Then you can lay them on the bottom in a nice even row -- and layer them if you need. They'll also stack nicely in your freezer when you are not using them -- or, you can store them in the unused cooler, or just on the shelf in the garage (freeze them when you need them).

And make sure you get a Yeti! ;-)


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Curious - for those who use salt water, what is the ratio of salt to water that seems to work best?


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

PBH said:


> If you do this, you should add some salt (lower the freezing point). They'll last even longer this way.
> Measure them and cut them to fit your specific cooler. Then you can lay them on the bottom in a nice even row -- and layer them if you need. They'll also stack nicely in your freezer when you are not using them -- or, you can store them in the unused cooler, or just on the shelf in the garage (freeze them when you need them).
> 
> And make sure you get a Yeti! ;-)


I'm not sure that I follow the logic here. Lowering the freezing point simply lowers the temperature at which the liquid turns to ice and lowers the temperate at which it converts back to water. It doesn't change the temperature any; it only changes the state.

We often use a brine solution so that we can keep fish at temperatures below freezing without turning the medium solid, but in this case the hunter wishes to keep his meat as dry as possible.

What am I missing?


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Steve -- you're probably right. The temperature of the frozen bottle would be the same, whether fresh or salt water -- if your freezer is set to -20, then whatever is in the feezer will eventually sit at -20.

Adding salt may actually decrease the heat capacity of water, thus absorbing _less_ heat than fresh water for each degree it is warmed: and thus warming your cooler quicker.

strike my thought and do not add salt. Just use fresh water. 

(why have I never thought logically about this?)


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

This is killing me. I've spent so much time thinking about what I could add to water to lower the freezing point. But what I've never thought about is what temperature my freezer is set to. It doesn't matter what the freezing point of the medium is when your freezer is set to a static temperature. (Of course, you want your medium to change to solid form)

What matters is the rate of heat transfer between the medium and the object you want cooled (or warmed).

So, the real answer here is: insulation.

If you want your ice (whether fresh or salt) to last longer, then you need to insulate it against whatever is warming it. Add a layer of air between your ice and the object. This is why these metal tumblers work so well.


(this discussion has completely disrupted my daily work duties. I'll get nothing done the rest of the day...)


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

PBH said:


> This is killing me. I've spent so much time thinking about what I could add to water to lower the freezing point. But what I've never thought about is what temperature my freezer is set to. It doesn't matter what the freezing point of the medium is when your freezer is set to a static temperature. (Of course, you want your medium to change to solid form)
> 
> What matters is the rate of heat transfer between the medium and the object you want cooled (or warmed).
> 
> ...


Wait. What?

Sorry to distract you further but isn't the whole idea to cool the meat? In order to cool the meat you need to be able to transfer the heat from the meat to the ice (exothermic process) or the transfer of the cold from the ice to the meat (endothermic process). So if you insulate the meat from the ice you just retard that process. I think that all you can do is get a darn good cooler like you suggested freeze the cooler in advance like suggested by someone else (very short term help in my opinion) and use evaporative cooling (also previously suggested).


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

Here's an idea if you don't have a yeti or other well insulated cooler. Basically you can drill holes in the cooler and fill it with foam. I haven't tried it yet but I probably will this weekend. one of my coolers is basically a fish box that melts ice as quick as it can so there will be no loss if it doesn't work out.

https://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/ice-chest-modification-or-the-poor-mans-yeti.106021/


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Pre-cooling meat prior to placing in a cooler will do more for long term use on ice than placing in when warm. Even if the meat only cools to an ambient temp of 60 deg, the ice will last longer when cooling from 60 to 45 than from 80 to 45.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One thing that I found that will help keep ice and other things cool are some old concrete blankets. 
I used to do a camping trip out on the desert and would cover the coolers with one. That extra insulation helps a lot to keep ice from melting. That along with keeping the cooler closed will extend the life of ice if you are going to be out a few more days 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Steve G said:


> Wait. What?
> 
> Sorry to distract you further but isn't the whole idea to cool the meat? In order to cool the meat you need to be able to transfer the heat from the meat to the ice (exothermic process) or the transfer of the cold from the ice to the meat (endothermic process).
> 
> So if you insulate the meat from the ice you just retard that process.


yes! Exactly my point!
The discussion devolved into a "how to keep ice longer" (at least in my mind). So, to keep ice in your cooler longer, you must insulate it against the object (warm meat) that will warm up your ice.

So, what is the issue with water? I understand it takes some of the color away - but what's the issue with using water?

On a hunt not so long ago, my cow elk was dead right next to a nice cold stream. It was about 95F outside. We submerged the quarters directly in the stream to cool them down.

At home, when processing, we'll take a cooler and toss all the meat into it. Then run a hose into the cooler and rinse it all and get all the hair and crap off the meat, prior to cutting into finished parts.

I've never had any negative consequences that I know of with using water on the meat....


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

The issue with water in a cooler is that if the water in the cooler warms up, and it will, while in transport or until you get it to a place where the air is cool enough to hang bacteria generation can go rampant.


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

PBH said:


> yes! Exactly my point!
> The discussion devolved into a "how to keep ice longer" (at least in my mind). So, to keep ice in your cooler longer, you must insulate it against the object (warm meat) that will warm up your ice.


Fair enough.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Years ago (1982) I had a friend that owned a HVAC business. We cut and welded sheets of aluminum to make a "cooler" for hunting purposes. Had to make two box's. The inside box was 4" smaller than the outside. (shell) Mixed up some 8# foam and pored it between the two parts. Did the same for a lid and it held ice longer than the "super coolers" now days. 


It worked so good that someone else decided they needed it more than I did and it was stolen out of our camp.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One of the best and cheapest coolers that I have ever seen or used was a old blood cooler from the Viet Nam war. They were a little larger than 3'x3'x3' with a latched lid. You could pick them up from a Army Surplus store for very little and they worked great.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

We use the frozen bottles method for our food and our game. I’ve always hated my food sitting in nasty cooler water.

I’ve found that 2 liter bottles fit perfectly in a 120qt cooler. You can line the whole bottom of the cooler with them and when they melt you also have a backup supply of drinking water.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> Did the same for a lid and it held ice longer than the "super coolers" now days.


But could you stand on it?

I can't imagine ever having to replace the hinges on either my Yeti or Rtic coolers. And when they are in the boat, no worries at all if two grown men stand on one.


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## kodoz (Nov 4, 2016)

I'm digging into a deeply repressed chemistry lecture here, but when you have a change in state (solid > liquid or liquid > gas), the temperature is at equillibrium. So if you have a boiling cup of water, it's at 212F until it all converts to gas, and then the temp of the gas starts rising. Same with ice as it melts to water. It's called latent heat.



High Desert Elk said:


> The issue with water in a cooler is that if the water in the cooler warms up...bacteria generation can go rampant.


In this case, as long as there is some ice in the water, *theoretically* the bath should be 32F until all the ice has melted. (Moisture does foster bacterial growth either way tho.) In fact, if you really want to cool something down, you submerge it in a bath because the heat transfer in a liquid is better than what you get with ice because the air spaces are essentially insulating (air transfers heat less well than liquid water).



Steve G said:


> We often use a brine solution so that we can keep fish at temperatures below freezing without turning the medium solid...What am I missing?


I don't know, but I'm probably missing it too. A brine solution will have a lower freezing point (and the liquid will transfer heat out of that fish faster than throwing it on ice). The liquid-ice bath in a brine should be colder than a fresh water-ice bath, but whether this has any difference on the end result, that's a good question. If you put fresh water and salt water in a 20F freezer, they both come out at 20F. Brine melts sooner than fresh, but it's going to sit at 20F longer than fresh water, which will warm up to 32F and then sit there for a while. Somewhere out there there must be a graph of the heat input capacity of salt vs fresh water.



MWScott72 said:


> Curious - for those who use salt water, what is the ratio of salt to water that seems to work best?


The answer is 23.3% by weight...


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Kinda funny how threads evolve. I was under the impression the OP was asking how to keep ice if he didn't tag out on the first few days.

PBH, I have an Iglo 120 qt cooler I've used on my raft for a seat and occasionally for standing on. Maybe 1100 or so river miles. Still going strong. No doubt the Yeti ect are good coolers but pretty much overkill for most uses.


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

Deer/elk bags hung in a shady tree works well to get everything cool!! When ready to transport, frozen water jugs are the ticket!!


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## trackerputnam (Dec 21, 2014)

I have not read all of these so forgive me if I am repeating things! In Washington we can only bring back meat and no bones. So, elk, deer or antelope, there is a simple solution. Obviously debone the meat, put that in 10 gallon ziplock bags and seal. Stand them up in the cooler and cover with ice. Remember to keep evidence of sex. Put that into separate gallon ziplock and put that in with the meat. In a sandwich ziplock put your tag and seal and also put that with meat. I have had antelope at nearly 100 degrees outside and this method works great.

It takes maybe two ten gallon bags for an elk. Two antelope fit easily in one big ten gallon. Two deer fit a single ten gallon. Do not mix different hunters animals. We have been checked many a time in the field and at check stations and have only received praise for the care. 

We have kept meat several days this way. Have never had a problem. But don’t try this with bones still in the meat. They will poke hole in the bags allowing water ice.


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## kodoz (Nov 4, 2016)

The answer is 23.3% by weight...[/QUOTE]

I tried this, and it totally works.

Pro-tip: don't put your food in with brine ice. Your milk...frozen. Cheese sticks...frozen like bricks. Hard boiled eggs...frozen, and they're inedible when thawed. Would probably be fine if you don't eat anything but popsicles and Drumsticks. Didn't help that it was in the 20s during the first few days I was out, but even after throwing an antelope in the ice chest, there was still ice in the brine a few days later.


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