# Helicopter Herding



## danthrax1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Hey, I just wanted to thank the J***A** in the red jet powered helicopter that was helicopter herding elk up city creek canyon in the middle of the week during the elk hunt. So I have busted my a** to even get in the canyon and low and behold around dusk I start to hear a helicopter approaching the top of the canyon. I thought the moron was going to pick someone up or drop someone off because he dang near landed the stupid thing on a knoll. He then sees me sitting in the bottom and takes off. Of course I was royally ticked off at this point because he has scared off every freaking animal within 10 miles. And to make matters worse the helicopter approached the canyon from the west and with the sun setting I couldn't get the numbers on its tail because of the glare from the sun. As I reached the top of the mountain where the trail is back to the car I can hear him coming back in the canyon. At this point it is completely dark. But not for him. He then proceeds to spotlight a herd of elk and push them onto Hardscrabble CWMU for the next two hours. You could actually hear avalanches of rocks falling down the mountain as the elk ran to get away. I talked to a another hunter who was hunting moose in that area and he said he saw the same thing. If anyone knows anything about this please speak up. From mine and his description it was a red jet powered helicopter with white lettering. I have looked for images online and it looks exactly like a bell helicopter. My gut tells me that a high paying client wanted to make sure that he had elk to hunt for the CWMU because that's where the elk got pushed to.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Welcome to the Forum!! Seven asterisks on the first post!!

Was the aircraft a Bell 207 Turboprop? Hey, I use to ride one back and forth to work in the Gulf of Mexico; very manuverable, would work great in mountains.

Hope your elk hunt goes better for you. Keep yer chin up.


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## Winchester (Nov 1, 2010)

A couple of years ago, I saw the same thing up in Northern Utah. Helicopters moving elk from public ground onto Deseret Land and Livestock property. Frustrated me to no end and I believe it was exactly as you pointed out. They were moving elk onto their CWMU for a high paying client who's fees more than paid for the chopper. This is BS! I wonder what they would do if a bunch of guys got together and paid for a chopper to go herd them back onto public ground? Give them a dose of their own medicine.


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

I saw this flying low on a LE elk unit during the archery season. :shock:
[attachment=0:1pt4kt0f]P1000285.JPG[/attachment:1pt4kt0f]
o-|| o-|| o-||


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

No you guys have it all wrong. Those choppers are not herding Elk, they are watching YOU!!! It is Obama's storm troopers and they are getting a head count of how many hunters they are going to have to put into jail once 2012 hit and he declares marshal law...


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## humpyflyguy (Sep 10, 2007)

I feel your pain, last year during the general archery elk hunt I had a similar situation with the Hardscrabble CWMU but mine was not a chopper, it was actually paid hands on horses. I rode in on the session road as far as my atv would go then headed south, I find this to be the quickest but not the easiest way into the area above City Creek and Meuller Park but that is where the elk are usually. The trail in impossible once the snow hits though. So back to what happened. As I climped out of the first bowl, yes I was walking right on what they call the property line but if you follow maps you will see that it is completely on Public line by a few hundred yards. As I topped the hill I see movement down below me, take a look with the binos and it is a guy on a horse, no big deal either gathering cows or sheep is what I thought. So I kept going, the gentleman saw me and headed in my direction, I could see it was not a sheepherder for he was white, as he approached me we started to have a conversation. He informed me that he works for the Hardscrabble CWMU and was just looking for elk for a client, I asked him why he is on this side of the line, his response they spotted some elk in here before so he wanted to see what it had to offer. We talked for a bit longer then I was back to hunting, wished each other good luck, nice fellow but asked alot of questions. I am not sure he knew what he was doing. 
Well I climb out of the cliffs and get to my glassing spot, it was already mid morning so nothing would be out feeding but may catch one stretching or atleast see some nice bucks. And plus to rest for bit before the afternoon evening hunt starts. Well I was glassing and not seeing much but knew that in just a couple hours it will be alive with critters so I figured I better get down in the canyon to some meadows they feed out in and get ready. As I was about to start my descend, I hear a bunch of shots, hooping and hollering, coming from the canyon I talked with the "guide", walked over to the side where I could see into it, and to my surprise, there are three guys on horses chasing elk out of the canyon from the west and pushing them east, they were firing in the air and yelling, one of the guys was right on the tail of a small bull and some cows, the others were zig zagging back and forth along the hillsides and bottom, I guess making sure they don't leave anything behind. To this day I could not believe what I was witnessing, I pulled the camera out and tried to take pictures but I was so far away all you could see was trees in the picture. I wish I would have gotten his name when I was talking to him, would have turned those S.O.B's in. When I got back home I looked up the operator of the CWMU and gave him a call. As I was talking to him, he said he has no clue what I am talking about, I mentioned I have pictures and also one of the guys discription, then he somewhat confessed. He said he knew they are up scouting all the time, and quiet often are on the public land to see what is there to offer. But he does not condone any wrong practice from any of the hands and reassured his hands would never herass wild game for their profit. I was still not happy so i called the DWR and they pretty much blew me off, but said if I see this again to make sure I call a CO right then. 

So since then Hardscrabble has been lower on my list that Don Peay....


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## danthrax1 (Nov 10, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> Welcome to the Forum!! Seven asterisks on the first post!!
> 
> Was the aircraft a Bell 207 Turboprop? Hey, I use to ride one back and forth to work in the Gulf of Mexico; very manuverable, would work great in mountains.
> 
> Hope your elk hunt goes better for you. Keep yer chin up.


I'm not sure exactly sure what model because I'm not that familiar with helicopters but it does somewhat resemble the Bell 207 you mentioned. I have been coming to the forums a lot and never had an overwhelming desire to post comments until this happened. I'm just trying to get the word around about whats going on up there. I called the DWR and they didn't seem to care. Probably because they didn't hike their butt off like I did to get to some remote areas.


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## danthrax1 (Nov 10, 2010)

hoghunter011583 said:


> No you guys have it all wrong. Those choppers are not herding Elk, they are watching YOU!!! It is Obama's storm troopers and they are getting a head count of how many hunters they are going to have to put into jail once 2012 hit and he declares marshal law...


Come to think about it I thought that I saw Obama flying the copter and Biden was spotting the elk.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It didn't look like this did it? http://intermountainhealthcare.org/serv ... tment.aspx
I'm not a fan of the Hard Scrabble operator, but I don't know that he has a stupid enough client that would pay $1800.00 an hour for a 300 bull.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

The Jack Ass that you saw, was probably this guy
[attachment=0:bynjfo6x]Life Flight.jpg[/attachment:bynjfo6x]

Believe it or not if you see a helicopter in the sky it's not always "Herding Elk". This helicopter thing is getting ridiculous, I thought this was going to be a joke.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Thank you HJB. My thought is exactly the same. Not every helicopter flying is chasing my elk away. 

I've got a buddy that swears he watched a helicopter chasing elk from Monte Cristo over to DLL - and he even saw the DLL logo on the side of the chopper. Which is even funnier if he knew that DLL doesn't even own a helicopter.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

i have to say - in jet rangers and long rangers (the bell series of ships) the only red ones i know of in utah are air med. i have ridden in almost all of the others run by classic and skyhawk. no red ones. they do have a brown one, black one, blue one, el aero has a yellow one. i still dont know of a pilot here in utah that loves to fly at night, lights or not... just too dangerous with powerlines, etc. every pilot i have flown with wants that ship on the ground with daylight left to spare. 

so - assuming that what you saw is fact - then we have a situation where a pilot has no disregard for his safety, the safety of the ship or anyone else and is using the ship is flagrant disregard and violation of the law. now - if this is the case and the ship landed at a local air port, then air traffic control will have a record as it came into restricted air space... and that is most likely the case as even an idiot doesnt want to leave a 2 mill aircraft outside for the night. so there are records that can be used to substantiate the claim - go get em and make the case.


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## danthrax1 (Nov 10, 2010)

HJB said:


> The **** you saw, was probably this guy
> [attachment=0:2xaztblg]Life Flight.jpg[/attachment:2xaztblg]
> 
> Believe it or not if you see a helicopter in the sky it's not always "Herding Elk". This helicopter thing is getting ridiculous, I thought this was going to be a joke.


That is twice the size of the helicopter I saw. I understand your point of view and reasoning but lets consider a few things. First off I unfortunately lost a family member to a lightning strike in the uintas a couple of years back during the elk hunt. Lifeflight flew in but unfortunately he had already passed. They didn't hover for hours on end. They didn't spotlight the whole mountain. They landed immediately and got to work. So I am somewhat familiar, as I assume alot of people are, the difference between lifeflight and just a regular commercial helicopter. Also to consider is the fact that the pilot took off when he saw me sitting in the bottom of the canyon. In his defense he could of left the canyon the first time for a myriad of reasons, maybe he had to go to the bathroom, or maybe he left the iron on. It just seems a little strange that he came back after it was completely dark. Now I don't want to jump to conclusions but how many lifeflight helicopters are seen spotlighting and moving elk? I think the big medical emblem on the side would be something that would easily be spotted because the helicopter I saw did not have it. Besides I would certainly hope they are off doing other things like you know, saving lives. So say what you want about it but I know what I saw and it does seem a little odd to me that lifeflight would spend nearly two hours with a spotlight moving animals. But heck what do I know they could of been saving an elk that got shot and couldn't make it on his own. Take that Darwinism.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

hoghunter011583 said:


> No you guys have it all wrong. Those choppers are not herding Elk, they are watching YOU!!! It is Obama's storm troopers and they are getting a head count of how many hunters they are going to have to put into jail once 2012 hit and he declares marshal law...


You mean we can't blame Bush for everything anymore?


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

It was not his fault "Read the book".


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## danthrax1 (Nov 10, 2010)

so - assuming that what you saw is fact - then we have a situation where a pilot has no disregard for his safety, the safety of the ship or anyone else and is using the ship is flagrant disregard and violation of the law. now - if this is the case and the ship landed at a local air port, then air traffic control will have a record as it came into restricted air space... and that is most likely the case as even an idiot doesnt want to leave a 2 mill aircraft outside for the night. so there are records that can be used to substantiate the claim - go get em and make the case.[/quote]

Thanks for the info. Where does a person go to find out this stuff?


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

bullsnot said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > No you guys have it all wrong. Those choppers are not herding Elk, they are watching YOU!!! It is Obama's storm troopers and they are getting a head count of how many hunters they are going to have to put into jail once 2012 hit and he declares marshal law...
> ...


He11 yeah it is Bush's fault, if he would have declared marshall law and suspended elections we'd still be worrying about being listened to on the phone while we gave our buddies the heads up on where the Elk where going.... Oh wait, Obama kept the Patriot act going.... son now we have them listening while we fuss about him herding Elk. Next time biden might just herd those Elk toward you and trample you!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

pkred said:


> It was not his fault "Read the book".


I love these guys that say, "read the book" I mean we pay experts to read the book!!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

This is fun.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Ok, all jokes aside. If I had to guess I'd say nearly everytime someone thinks they are herding Elk with helicopters I think it is usually not true. I think that if those high paying clients have enough money to pay helicopter pilots and all the fuel to run them, they can go to the best ranches in the country where you don't need to heli-herd the Elk. 

I was deer hunting up Bountiful and saw a helicopter keep flying over the canyon, maybe he was herding Elk or Deer but I really doubt it. I seem to always see helicopters while hunting the front. I don't know what they are doing, maybe it is the department of national forestery, maybe helicopter tourist rides, maybe shooting a film, could even be the discovery channel have you seen the show snow men. I did hear that they shoot movies in Utah a lot. Could even be the DWR COUNTING THE HERD???? 
All of that makes a little more sence than herding Elk!! I call BS..

Now I would believe they use guys on horses to run them!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> This is fun.


Fun because this post was started by a TROLL???


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## walter sobchak (Jul 3, 2009)

next time, get the numbers off the side of the helicopter if you can see them. 

from what i understand (and it's never that much) is that legally, they probably can't land depending on who owns the ground, but they can fly pretty close to the ground. call the FAA with the numbers off the side of the helicopter. there are a ton of helicopter training schools operating out of the airport so i would guess they might be from there?

if it's a business, i would doubt they could land on the forest service property and would need permission to land on any private (trespass).


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

OK guys, it was me in that helicopter. I had just bought a Blackhawk off Ebay and I was taking the grandkids to the babysitter when I got a call from DLL telling me that an elk had escaped the confines of the ranch and would I mind bringing it back. Now I don't like to herd elk because it starts rumors so I swooped down and netted him, airlifted him back to DLL headquarters and dropped it off.
Seriously, you really think you saw a helicopter herding elk? That is probably one of the most least cost-effective way to get elk on your property.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

walter sobchak said:


> next time, get the numbers off the side of the helicopter if you can see them.
> 
> from what i understand (and it's never that much) is that legally, they probably can't land depending on who owns the ground, but they can fly pretty close to the ground. call the FAA with the numbers off the side of the helicopter. there are a ton of helicopter training schools operating out of the airport so i would guess they might be from there?
> 
> if it's a business, i would doubt they could land on the forest service property and would need permission to land on any private (trespass).


 :roll: if they are indeed herding animals onto their land then I doubt they give a **** about the laws pertaining to where they can land! :lol:

Everyone hunts with a gun right?

Hint! Today's turbojet engines on aerospace vehicles don't react well to foreign objects at high velocity!

If they are smart enough to fly a copter they are smart enough to stop herding when lead flies at them.

Actually I'm surprised someone ain't shot one yet due to the number of stories out there.

It has happened in other places.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Hah, yeah go ahead and shoot one and then we'll find out what the guy was really doing!! Can't wait to hear the headlines, "DWR agents where shot out of the sky today while conducting an elk counting program"!!!


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Hah, yeah go ahead and shoot one and then we'll find out what the guy was really doing!! Can't wait to hear the headlines, "DWR agents where shot out of the sky today while conducting an elk counting program"!!!


 :lol: it will happen here sooner or later, bet on that!

Several years ago a crop duster who spreading pelletized fertilzer decided to buzz a blind in a field down home. After the first pass he turned around and came back for another, you guessed it this time he was met with a barrage of of goose loads. Didn't cause a crash landing but he needed some body work after it was over. I also heard that he needed some new underwear.

He also ain't buzzed anyone else since. :lol:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > Hah, yeah go ahead and shoot one and then we'll find out what the guy was really doing!! Can't wait to hear the headlines, "DWR agents where shot out of the sky today while conducting an elk counting program"!!!
> ...


Sounds like a great way to end up in prison. :roll:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Mojo1 said:
> 
> 
> > hoghunter011583 said:
> ...


Nah, no charges were filed in that one. The pilot had a history of "stunts" and the shooters were his lifelong neighbors from just down the road from his house. They were both in the wrong and it was dropped. However I don't believe they exchanged x-mas cards after the incident.

Interestedly just a couple of years ago the same pilot was flying under electric lines while spraying rice fields and misjudged one pass, he crashed into shed after losing control and was killed.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Mojo1 said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > Hah, yeah go ahead and shoot one and then we'll find out what the guy was really doing!! Can't wait to hear the headlines, "DWR agents where shot out of the sky today while conducting an elk counting program"!!!
> ...


Why didn't he call the cops and press charges for attempted murder? I know I would have. The only way you can shoot at someone is if you feel your life is in danger. I don't think being buzzed by a crop duster or seeing someone herding elk is reason to kill people. If it ever does happen I hope they through the idiot in jail!! What if you hit the helicopter and he crashes on someones house and kills a whole family, are the judges going to say, well that is what happends when you herd elk with a chopper!!!


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

You guys started the crying about herding elk by copter, I just chimed in with my opinion which was judging from the amount of retarded stuff I see Utah Hunters do every year I was surprised it hadn't happened yet. 

Further if it did happen I seriously doubt the Utah authorities would ever catch the shooter, it’s a big mountain, and Big Daddy ain’t always around to watch what’s going on. 

As I recall, one of the reasons the county prosecutor declined to file charges was because they considered the pilot buzzing so close to the people on the ground (he did almost drag his wheels on the ground) to be an act that would justified use of force to defend yourself. The pilot was from a well connected family in our county and got himself a very good lawyer from Memphis to beat the charges that were filed against him. 

Carry on with the pity party boys!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> OK guys, it was me in that helicopter. I had just bought a Blackhawk off Ebay and I was taking the grandkids to the babysitter when I got a call from DLL telling me that an elk had escaped the confines of the ranch and would I mind bringing it back. Now I don't like to herd elk because it starts rumors so I swooped down and netted him, airlifted him back to DLL headquarters and dropped it off.
> Seriously, you really think you saw a helicopter herding elk? That is probably one of the most least cost-effective way to get elk on your property.


I had a feeling it was you! I told *GaryFish* just the other day "it's probably longbow"


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

While they may not have been herding, it is tough hunting with helicopters landing in front of you. A Saturday evening of muzzy elk wasted. 
[attachment=0:10n29bli]Hel 2.JPG[/attachment:10n29bli][attachment=1:10n29bli]Hel 1.JPG[/attachment:10n29bli]


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Now if we just had a better pic of bigfoot!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Sorry Mojo, at first it sounded like you were suggesting someone shoot at them.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

this really has gone far enough... and this subject when it comes up always ends with talk of shooting at a ship (reference this topic from last year, the year before, ad infinitum) which in my opinion crosses an ethical boundary. i dont care how many hunts may supposedly be ruined by people in a ship doing legal and lawful business or even if they may be 'herding' which has never been proven - talk about shooting a ship is equivalent to talking about killing a pilot and passenger plain and simple - that is murder. how many times have hunts been busted by someone walking into a situation where you have been stalking an animal... bummer, it happens. it happens all the time. so why not talk about doing something evil to them? there is no difference here except someone feels that the supposed 'rich guy' is taking advantage of some poor guy who had to walk in...

give me the date and time of this red ship busting the hunt. i will track it down and post a report.

its time to put this to bed... date and time please.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

Huntoholic I would be pissed if I had that happen while hunting public land. You never hear of alot of people hunting on a cwmu having helicopter problems. Weird huh?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

COOPERD said:


> Huntoholic I would be **** if I had that happen while hunting public land. You never hear of alot of people hunting on a cwmu having helicopter problems. Weird huh?


Planes and choppers are used every year to spot cattle by the ranchers-every year on BLM property. Would they do that on their own private CWMU land? Yes, but not while they have paying customers hunting.


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## ACHY (Oct 18, 2007)

I saw this one flying low over the book cliffs just before the rifle deer hunt out there.

[attachment=0:3ru1z9lt]IMG_7794.JPG[/attachment:3ru1z9lt]

[attachment=1:3ru1z9lt]IMG_7792.JPG[/attachment:3ru1z9lt]

Funny thing is, it really was the DWR. They were seeding a habitat project out there--I stopped and talked to the folks on the ground who were loading the seed into the hopper. The timing may have been unfortunate, but it sure wasn't malicious.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Maybe they were alians from another planet scooping up our game and taking them to reseed Mars for food. BWAAAHAHAHA. I love this helicopter-herding thread.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Maybe Deseret Land and Livestock is Mars!

This subject comes up every year. I love it.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

danthrax1 - could you provide me the date, time and specific location of the red bell ship... would love to track this one down and see just what they were doing.


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