# reasons for reload misfires



## jeff788 (Aug 7, 2009)

I've recently ran into a reloading problem that I've never seen before. I've asked a few relatives who are experienced reloaders, and they were a little stumped, so maybe you all have some ideas. Here's the story:

I recently worked up some loads for my dad's new rifle, a Savage 7mm-08 package rifle with a Nikon scope. I've had good luck with Hornady SST's and GMX's in my 30-06, and since a cow elk hunt was on the list of to-do's for this rifle, I chose the 139 gr GMX's to start working with. As brass for the 7mm-08 is basically nonexistent, we bought two boxes of Hornady Superformance with the same 139 gr GMX's that I intended to reload. Both boxes of factory ammo fired fine, and after realizing that there was not a bolt on the entire rifle that was more than finger tight (including the scope base and ring bolts), it was grouping very nicely. 

So I moved on to reloading the brass. I full-length resized the brass (Lee dies). I then realized that I forgot to get the 7mm-08 stud for the Lee case trimer I use, so I had no way to trim the cases. The cases were all at almost exactly the published maximum case length of 2.035". In spec, but just barely. I decided to continue reloading a few and then make sure that they chambered okay, which they did. I seated to 2.80", which is the published maximum COL. The Hornady manual uses a COL of 2.755" with this bullet. I used H4350 and a starting load and worked up from there. Everything fired fine, but only fired 4 or 5 of my loads before I saw pressure signs (loose primer). I then backed off a bit and loaded 10 rounds to go finish sighting in the rifle for this load. I did trim these cases to 2.030". 6 of the 10 rounds did not fire! I tried firing the rounds again with no luck. The firing pin did make a dent in the primer, but did not ignite it. The ones that did fire grouped fine. These were CCI large rifle primers. I've reloaded 100 rounds or so from the same case (but different box) that fired fine.

Since this was now only days before the hunt I went a bought two more boxes of factory ammo (federal fusion) to sight in the rifle and hunt with. They all fired fine, grouped well, and killed a cow on opening morning! My dad's first big game kill in probably two decades! He kind of gave up on hunting a while back, so it was good to get him out int he field and have a successful hunt. 

Now that the meat is in the freezer, I'm back to trying to sort out what the problem is with my reloads. I inspected the rounds that did not fire and compared them to the factory loads, and nothing seems obviously wrong. The primer strikes look maybe a little light, but not much. I don't have a case gauge, so all I could do is use my micrometer to try to roughly measure the shoulder, etc. The primers look to be seated properly (seated with the Lee hand priming tool).

I resized and primed two cases and loaded them in the rifle (no powder or bullet). Both chambered fine and the primers ignited fine. My question is, what should I do next? I'm inclined to load some more rounds and give them another try, but without doing anything different, and not knowing why I had a 60% failure rate, I don't get any warm fuzzies about the reliabilty of my loads. The only thing that I'm considering doing different is playing with the seating depth, but I can't think of why this would have any effect on the primer igniting or not. I'm guessing that if the shoulder is pushed back too far the headpace could be too large and maybe the firing pin would not reach out far enough to ignite the primer. Any idea how much excess headspace would cause this? Would there be any other obvious signs if this were the case? 

Thanks for any ideas you might have,

Jeff


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

How much are you bumping the shoulder back when resizing? I am thinking it could be your full length sizer die isn't right. I would compare the shoulder of a once fired with full length sized, there should be no more than about .001-.002" difference. If it is more than that, back off your full length die so you just barely bump it back. You'll get more reloadings from the brass as well.

I experienced something kind of like this once when I reamed out the primer pocket. After about 6 reloading and taking a bit off of the primer pocket each time, I went too deep and the primer sat too far into the brass and I got light primer strikes. May be worth checking primer pocket depth with calipers.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

^^ what he said. Sounds like either primer pocket or shoulder issues and it's going to deep into the chamber if it's a shoulder problem.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Excessive head space most certainly can cause misfires as you describe. If you are not having any problems with factory ammo I suggest that this is the problem and it is your reloads. Be sure you have your dies set up correctly so you won't be pushing that shoulder back. Since the ammo was once fired and fired through your rifle you should be able to just neck size only. 
Now, if you have full length resized all your cases you may consider discarding them and starting fresh. Improper headspace can be dangerous and once you have pushed those shoulders back I can't think of a safe way to resize them to the proper length. Perhaps someone on here has a suggestion? Good luck.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Reminds me of a problem I had awhile ago. I stopped using CCI primers for a similar problem.
http://utahwildlife.net/forum/18-firearms-reloading/37472-problem.html
Lets just say haven't used cci primers since and have not had an issue since.


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

My guess is it is the primers. 
I did the same thing with the wife's 7-08. The factory hornady superformence brass I tried to reload with had 7 out of 40 that wouldn't hold a primer. Not sure if that could relate and contribute to what your experiencing. I solved that problem by finally finding some Win 308 brass.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

toasty said:


> How much are you bumping the shoulder back when resizing? I am thinking it could be your full length sizer die isn't right. I would compare the shoulder of a once fired with full length sized, there should be no more than about .001-.002" difference. If it is more than that, back off your full length die so you just barely bump it back. You'll get more reloadings from the brass as well.
> 
> I experienced something kind of like this once when I reamed out the primer pocket. After about 6 reloading and taking a bit off of the primer pocket each time, I went too deep and the primer sat too far into the brass and I got light primer strikes. May be worth checking primer pocket depth with calipers.


I think Mr Toast hit it. I think back to some trivia that I heard about Holland and his nephew Holland who specialized in dangerous game double rifles. Back in his day "factory" shells didn't have the same standards as we do today so headspace could be way long or way short. If you bought shells that had a lot of headspace, instead of striking the primer properly, the firing pin would merely tap the shell to the front of the chamber causing a misfire. A misfire during a confrontation with a Cape buffalo could be bad. So, he came up with the "belt" so the shell would be "headspaced" off the belt and prevent the shell from going forward when the firing pin hit it. If you happen to have .020 space between your shoulder and the front of your chamber, your gun would still fire. 
I thought that was pretty interesting. I bet too much headspace is you problem.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Seems that most of us agree that headspacing is probably your problem. Blown or partially blown primers is another indicator of improper headspacing. With you, it is the shell cases that is the problem, not the rifle. If you have resized any of the casing you probably still have the problem and no amount of fiddling with powder charges etc. will solve the problem. I suggest you discard any cases that have been resized and re-read the instructions that came with your dies or loading equipment or loading manual and set-up your dies to properly full length re-size, or better yet, set-up to only resize the neck. 
Also, never "ream" your primer pockets. They make a brush specifically for "cleaning" the primer pockets. Buy one and use it periodically. Sooner or latter the primer pocket will naturally...after numerous reloads, enlarge to the point that you will need to cull your cases anyway.


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## jeff788 (Aug 7, 2009)

I did a little more careful measuring last night and I may have found something...maybe. I compared fired cases, factory ammo, and my reloads that failed to fire. It is tough to precisely measure the shoulder with only a micrometer, but as best I can tell, my failed reloads were within a few thousandths of the factory ammo and the fired case. I know they make a tool to make measuring this more precisely, can anyone recommend one?

I then carefully inspected the primers on the failed loads. The primers felt a little low my just feeling them with my finger, so I decided to measure them carefully. The failed loads were all between 0.006" and 0.012" below flush. I then compared the factory ammo and all of the primers are 0.003" below flush on the 7mm-08. I also checked some .223 factory ammo I had lying around and they were all around 0.005" below flush. It looks like the failed primers are all much lower than factory ammo. A little googling produced http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/reloading-beginners/primer-seating-depth which says that seating too deep can damage the components (assume they mean primer) and cause misfires.

I think I may be on to something here. Anyone have any experience with primers being seated too deep? Is 0.006" below flush sufficient to either damage the primer (of course, that depends on the pocket depth), or to create too much space between the bolt face and the primer and cause a misfire just as excess head space would?


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Well maybe, but I don't think this can cause blown/partially blown primers??


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

I can measure your shoulders if your around Ogden.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

mtnrunner260 said:


> I can measure your shoulders if your around Ogden.


Are you going to measure his waste, inseam, and chest as well? :mrgreen:

I would seat a different primer and try do do it with less force. The CCI primer metal is not as rigid as some others like Remington primer. You could be smashing your primers. Also .006" variation sounds big for a once fired brass of the same manufacture. Maybe the Hornady loads are way too hot in your gun and you're getting a little material flow in your primer pocket. You could also measure the height of your primers, maybe you have a bad lot.


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