# It Is Now Official



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/feat ... news&ID=36 8)


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Congrat's to Denny, the Monroe mtn, Mossback, and the Utah DWR for bring us this fine animal.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

That is a bull that will live on and on and on. Good he is dead, I can't imagine the people who would sit on him to get his sheds.

And I thought you were talking about my moose... haha


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Packout said:


> That is a bull that will live on and on and on. Good he is dead, I can't imagine the people who would sit on him to get his sheds.
> 
> And I thought you were talking about my moose... haha


Congrats again on your STATE record P&Y moose! You be the man.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

No, the moose was the man. 

Back to the topic, What happened to the 500+ gross? Do you know where the descrepancy occured?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

You took down the man with a stick flipper, hence you being the man.

Not sure where the bull 'lost' an inch. Doyle usually scores them lower than the official score, so this surprised me a bit.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

That is cool for the State of Utah to produce the WORLD record. 

It's kind of like the same feeling that this Y fan is having right now watching the Utes winning the Sugar Bowl. 

I didn't get to be the one to shoot that toad....................but it's still good to represent the State of Utah in this fashion.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Not impressed.

You really think this bull is a result of management?

This bull is a freak. And if you really care about elk, you've got to be asking why.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> Not impressed.
> 
> You really think this bull is a result of management?
> 
> This bull is a freak. And if you really care about elk, you've got to be asking why.


Why what? :?


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## soules2007 (Oct 29, 2007)

Finn, do you mean that the bull was such an abnormal bull for this area? Or somthing else, but i was under the impression this area continously produces large class bulls. So seeing somthing like this bull out of this unit does not seem like a stretch, The uinta range this bull should raise a few eyebrows. This is just an opinion.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

That is quite a feat, congratulations to all involved.

Finn, maybe it fed in a crop circle :roll:


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

"Utah's conservation professionals really deserve a pat on the back, as do the citizens of Utah for their support of their state’s wildlife programs," said Buckner.

I think if Buckner read these forums, he may change his thoughts about Utahs citizens support.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I saw that rack yesterday, it really is not that wide, it is just full of a bunch of non-typical points. I really was not that impressed, however it still is a world record and from Utah. Doyle had a couple racks of some buck from the Henries now those were impressive.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

north slope said:


> I saw that rack yesterday, it really is not that wide, it is just full of a bunch of non-typical points. *I really was not that impressed*, however it still is a world record and from Utah. Doyle had a couple racks of some buck from the Henries now those were impressive.





Finnegan said:


> *Not impressed*.
> 
> You really think this bull is a result of management?
> 
> This bull is a freak. And if you really care about elk, you've got to be asking why.


North Slope, Were you on the back of Finns 4 wheeler when it tipped over and possibly the head injury that Finn felt was both of your heads cracking together....................This is the "WORLDS RECORD"!...........How are you NOT impressed?


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> north slope said:
> 
> 
> > I saw that rack yesterday, it really is not that wide, it is just full of a bunch of non-typical points. *I really was not that impressed*, however it still is a world record and from Utah. Doyle had a couple racks of some buck from the Henries now those were impressive.
> ...


I guess you would have to see it first hand, I think some of the other bulls they have taken look way more impressive.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Congrats to the hunter and the mossback crew.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Let me clarify because I think it's important. Now granted, I'm not into inches and records and never put a tape on a rack in my life. Why reduce a magnificent animal down to an antler point score? But my concern here isn't about my personal quirks. My concern is that if an artist drew a picture of an elk with that stuff on its head, we'd laugh ourselves silly over it. That's not what elk antlers look like...not even close.

I suggest that the rack is a deviation beyond "non-typical" and the all-sacred score (a leap ahead of the previous world record) supports that suggestion. Possibly (just possibly) it could be an indication of something unnatural?

Antler formation is determined by diet. Even if you want to take the popular view that the main factor is genetics, you have to at least concede that diet is an important factor. So, what the hell did this bull eat?

We know for a fact that lead, mercury and other heavy metal contamination is wide spread through the state. And we know that contamination seems to be concentrated in certain spots. So I think it's reasonable to wonder about the other 1,000 pounds of animal underneath the antlers because that leads us to wonder about its habitat.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I'm just saying.......... :roll:


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> So, what did this bull eat?
> 
> We know for a fact that* lead*, mercury and other heavy metal contamination is wide spread through the state.


Well Finn you guessed it. They did some studies on this bull and came up with the fact that the last thing that this bull ate was in fact LEAD! :mrgreen:

I understand what you are saying as far as the weirdness of the bull but bone is bone and I like it in what ever form it comes in on top of those critters heads.

I have to argue the "measure" part. I like to measure ALL animals. Not for the Net but the Gross. I love seeing inches attached to those big racks.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> "Utah's conservation professionals really deserve a pat on the back, as do the citizens of Utah for their support of their state's wildlife programs," said Buckner.
> 
> I think if Buckner read these forums, he may change his thoughts about Utahs citizens support.


He just might! :lol:


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

The tale of the tape speaks for itself. The record now stands and it is what it is.

There should be no disputing the fact that this is an awesome bull and that any one of us would have pulled the trigger.

This record will be broken one day, it's just a matter of time. Hopefully it will be me, wish me luck!  

sawsman


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> I suggest that the rack is a deviation beyond "non-typical" and the all-sacred score (a leap ahead of the previous world record) supports that suggestion. Possibly (just possibly) it could be an indication of something unnatural?


I said _exactly _the same thing 3 months ago...and they were mean to me too! :wink:

Most World Records are broken by mere 1/100ths of an inch...and this sucker...13 inches! :shock:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I am glad to see it officially scored. A huge congrats needs to be given to Denny and Mossback! This is truely an impressive animal and for those who can't appreciate that, then I feel sorry for you. 

Actually I am impressed Doyle was within an inch when talking 500" of antler.

BTW Northslope, remind me not to have you field judge ANY of my animals...If you can't look upon a 500" bull and be impressed then you really need a new set of glasses!


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> I am glad to see it officially scored. A huge congrats needs to be given to Denny and Mossback! This is truely an impressive animal and for those who can't appreciate that, then I feel sorry for you.
> 
> Actually I am impressed Doyle was within an inch when talking 500" of antler.
> 
> BTW Northslope, remind me not to have you field judge ANY of my animals...If you can't look upon a 500" bull and be impressed then you really need a new set of glasses!


I have to agree with Northslope, but I don't think the word to use is "not impressed." I am impressed, it is an amazing animal, but it is FUGLY! 8) God **** it is an ugly SOB. :lol: I am not saying I wouldn't shoot it if I had a chance, but I like real symmetrical bulls better.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Non-typical may not be your cup of tea....but anyone who says they would pass on it for a 380 typical is a freaking liar! Of course those who don't believe in inches would shoot the cow next to him :roll: B.S.!


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Non-typical may not be your cup of tea....but anyone who says they would pass on it for a 380 typical is a freaking liar! Of course those who don't believe in inches would shoot the cow next to him :roll: B.S.!


I said I would shoot him given the opportunity, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the spider bull is ugly as hell. I bet it had a hard time getting any looking like that. :wink: :lol: Not saying he couldn't find some hooker cow with some kind of STD. :shock: :wink: 8)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

jahan said:


> I said I would shoot him given the opportunity, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the spider bull is ugly as hell. I bet it had a hard time getting any looking like that. :wink: :lol: Not saying he couldn't find some hooker cow with some kind of STD. :shock: :wink: 8)


He was observed the evening before his death passing his "fugliness' on to future generations of elk on the Monroe. :mrgreen:

I think this bull is impressive, but if spidey was standing next to the Skoronski bull killed in 2006 that is the biggest typical 6X6 ever taken, I would take the 435" bull every day of the week! But, truth be told, I wouldn't pass up ANY bull that goes over 400" regardless of what weapon I was using, what area I was in, and whether it was a typical or non-typical!


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > I said I would shoot him given the opportunity, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the spider bull is ugly as hell. I bet it had a hard time getting any looking like that. :wink: :lol: Not saying he couldn't find some hooker cow with some kind of STD. :shock: :wink: 8)
> ...


Thank you for saying what I was trying to say so much better than I can say it. :shock: :lol: So it found a easy cow huh? :wink: :lol: :lol: I hear all those Monroe cows are easy? :shock: :lol:


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

The story is in the tribune today. If you read the comments section it looks likes the anti's and PETA supporters are out in force. :roll:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11380830


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> Let me clarify because I think it's important. Now granted, I'm not into inches and records and never put a tape on a rack in my life. Why reduce a magnificent animal down to an antler point score? But my concern here isn't about my personal quirks. My concern is that if an artist drew a picture of an elk with that stuff on its head, we'd laugh ourselves silly over it. That's not what elk antlers look like...not even close.
> 
> I suggest that the rack is a deviation beyond "non-typical" and the all-sacred score (a leap ahead of the previous world record) supports that suggestion. Possibly (just possibly) it could be an indication of something unnatural?
> 
> ...


I see what you are saying Finn, but wouldn't there be other elk eating the same stuff the spider bull did, causing the same situation? Most likely, its a genetic mutation in this ONE animal. Combine that with the superior nutrition he had during the time his antlers were growing, they got as massive as they did. I guess we'll see if Monroe starts growing elk that big on a consistent basis that something is going on down there.

PS- Every time I read the bullcrap from anti-hunters, it really gets me pissed off! Talk about uninformed, ignorant hypocrites. Things must die in order for others to live, and that includes plants!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

"The value of any trophy from the field depends not on its size but on the magnitude of the effort expended in its pursuit." 

Great Job @ssback Crew and of course Pro in this promotion and the cash that exchanged hands in this transaction.... uh,ummmm.... well....I guess "hunt."


The value of the hunt was probably $300,000+ and lots and lots more through videos, promotions, advertizement, etc. Awesome absolutely awesome.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I refuse to celebrate all aspects of the "Spidy" bull saga, but I must celebrate the bull himself. Magnificent, spectacular, one of kind...a world record!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Great Job @ssback Crew and of course Pro in this promotion and the cash that exchanged hands in this transaction.... uh,ummmm.... well....I guess "hunt."


I had nothing to do with the harvest of this incredible animal, and didn't make so much a penny on the harvest of it. :roll:

How was it not a hunt? EVERY LE archery/early rifle/muzzy hunter had a crack at this bull, there were dozens of outfitters, hundreds of locals out looking for this bull, and yet it outsmarted them until the last day of September. I say that equates to a very elusive animal that was difficult to locate and harvest. The bull was nocturnal and elusive, making it a HUNT to put a tag on him.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > Great Job @ssback Crew and of course Pro in this promotion and the cash that exchanged hands in this transaction.... uh,ummmm.... well....I guess "hunt."
> ...


You and I have had these "conversations" in the past about "spidey", no use rehashing them again. You remember.....pimps, clients and the like. 
I've said it before. I could try to bash it in your head with a sledge hammer and it wouldn't put a dent.
I figure its all good and.......everyone has the right to be stupid, it is however unfortunate that some have to abuse the privilage.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> You and I have had these "conversations" in the past about "spidey", no use rehashing them again. You remember.....pimps, clients and the like.
> I've said it before. I could try to bash it in your head with a sledge hammer and it wouldn't put a dent.
> I figure its all good and.......everyone has the right to be stupid, it is however unfortunate that some have to abuse the privilage.


Ah, the good old days, back when you posted that you had heard from 'reliable' sources that the spider bull was 'tainted' and there would be legal ramifications involved with the tactics used to harvest this animal. Is that the "sledge hammer" you are referring to, or is that you exercising your right to be stupid AGAIN?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

o-|| o-|| 

:rotfl:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Lame... :roll: 


Boy, these grapes sure are sour!


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

I just don't understand why we need to kill these beautiful animals. Can't we just shoot them with cameras???


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > You and I have had these "conversations" in the past about "spidey", no use rehashing them again. You remember.....pimps, clients and the like.
> ...


**** straight tainted pro. 
If you ignore the tainted ways many people say they witnessed @ssback crew used to set Denny up for the kill the whole thing is still VERY tainted. You cant figure out why I say "tainted" because you participate in why I and many others don't feel that its a "hunt."
Look at it this way if you cant seem to figure out the whole "client, pimp, john thing, you and @ssback are the "hunters" and your clients are the "killers."

GREED and money wipes a level playing field clean and tilts the board heavily in one direction.

Poachers and clients are very similar in my book, one completes the task "legally" while the other does not with similar effort. I have a hard time with you talking about how wonderful the @ssback crew is along with the entire guiding industry, why poachers who kill magnificent game animals aren't applauded and thier harvest entered into the record books as well
To me the two are very similar. They are both driven by greed without regard. The difference is the money. With money clients complete their task "legally" and the money exchanges hands with the guide. With the poacher, he completes his task "illegally" and the money exchanges hands with the state *IF* he gets caught.

Again:

"The value of any trophy from the field depends not on its size but on the magnitude of the effort expended in its pursuit."


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> **** straight tainted pro.
> If you ignore the tainted ways many people say they witnessed @ssback crew used to set Denny up for the kill the whole thing is still VERY tainted. You cant figure out why I say "tainted" because you participate in why I and many others don't feel that its a "hunt."
> Look at it this way if you cant seem to figure out the whole "client, pimp, john thing, you and @ssback are the "hunters" and your clients are the "killers." So, people making claims without an OUNCE of proof is all YOU need to say it's "tainted"? Brilliant! I have NEVER guided a Governors tag hunter, I have NEVER been part of a 'posse' and helped 'surround' an animal, so tell me how I am part of this whole deal again? :roll:
> 
> ...


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

> "So, people making claims without an OUNCE of proof is all YOU need to say it's "tainted"? Brilliant! I have NEVER guided a Governors tag hunter, I have NEVER been part of a 'posse' and helped 'surround' an animal, so tell me how I am part of this whole deal again?"


Whoa there pro boy, your abusing the privilege again. I said "IF YOU IGNORE the tainted ways many people say they witnessed @ssback crew used to set Denny up for the kill the whole thing is still VERY tainted.



> What a load of horse apples! I have been guiding hunters for 20+ years, and GREED has yet to be what motivates me. I also dare say I have as high/higher regard for the animals I pursue each fall than you do.


Your two for two there pro. You apparently abuse the privilege frequently.....Its OK there buddy, it is America so there is no law against being stupid, and no one will stone you (at least that I know of) so you'll be fine.

Heres your own quote


> "So, people making claims without an OUNCE of proof is all YOU need to say it's "tainted"? Brilliant!"


 and there you go above stating you have high/higher regard for the animals you pursue that I do, just how do you know that???



> "so tell me how I am part of this whole deal again."


OH no! you can't be serious. You heavily support it all and you don't know what part you play in it all huh? You were the thread starter to this fine conversation were having right now aren't you??? 
It's OK if you don't understand what I'm talking about.....again as far as I know, no one will stone you and I know no laws that will put anyone in jail for competence issues, unless you are deemed a threat to yourself or others. You aren't a threat to yourself or others are you pro?



> "What a load of horse apples! I have been guiding hunters for 20+ years, and GREED has yet to be what motivates me."


And YOUR the one who said "horse apples." Yea GREED has nothing to do with guiding.....gotcha, (trophy, 400+ and other numbers including cash numbers etc. mean absolutely nothing to you and you never talk about antler scores or the like either) but my level of confidence isn't real high with your answer. You guide for what reason? @ssback guides for what reason? Guides guide for what reason?

I'm swinging away.......I'll bet theres not even a scratch in that noggin.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Just wondering, who here if money were not an object would not want a crack at an animal like that? If I had the money, I would go on guided hunts every year. Not for the greed but for the chance to see a much higher quality animal then you see on public lands most of the time. I dont know what methods were or are used by mossback but unless you see them first hand I think its a little out of bounds to accuse. I do believe that this animal had just much of a chance being harvested by Joe the plumber during the archery or rifle hunt. However, having 50 guys on the hill locating the animal for you does help.

I know a guy whos first deer was a 2 point & every year after that he said he would not shoot a deer unless it was bigger or more impressive then the deer he shot the year prior. Hes in his 60's now and hasnt hunted deer in over 15 years because he cant afford a guide and he feels he will never top the 6x8 31" buck he shot down south 15 years ago. When I asked him if he would hunt again if he could afford a guide he said "HELL YEH, JUST TO SEE ANIMALS LIKE THIS AGAIN WOULD BE WORTH THE PRICE" His answer wasnt about greed its about the chance to take a quality animal.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> You guide for what reason? @ssback guides for what reason? Guides guide for what reason?


I can't/won't answer for any other guides on why they do it, but I will gladly answer as to why I do it, and how I got started in the business.

I first became obsessed with hunting big game at 6 years old when my dad took me on the rifle deer hunt in 1973. Since that day I have been a 'big game' fanatic. I spent my childhood observing the deer in our hay/corn fields imaging shooting the biggest among them with my .22 (I was 6-12 years old). At 13 I helped 'guide' my older cousin into a 28" 4X5 on the archery hunt. At 16 I had kids/family asking for my help and asking where to locate big bucks and where to find the elusive and rare wapiti. I bugled in a 5X5 HERD bull that fall (1983) and at a soaking wet 90# proceeded to haul this beast out with the aid of two horses, by myself. I used a 'flute' like call and had that 'monster' come charging in, I have been addicted to calling in elk since that day, and even after calling several thousand bulls in since that day I still get the hair raising on the back of my neck. I figured out fairly quickly that my passion lead to a demand for my skills. I ran into an outfitter on the Monroe unit in 1985 while helping a high school buddy kill a 330 class bull (huge back then). He offered me a job and I have been guiding/outfitting ever since. I guide today because it allows me to chase monster animals and not take food away from my family, it allows me to meet awesome sportsmen who often become lifetime friends, it allows me to justify the number of days I spend in the field to my family, it allows me to understand the animals I enjoy observing/hunting more. It also gets me in contact with other knowledgeable hunters and learn from them. I am already excited for this falls hunts, not because of the chicken scratch I will receive, but because I know I will be chasing critters and making new/better friendships while in God's Country. Some years I have been lucky to just break even as a guide. *It is who I am, not what I do.*


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> Just wondering, who here if money were not an object would not want a crack at an animal like that? If I had the money, I would go on guided hunts every year. Not for the greed but for the chance to see a much higher quality animal then you see on public lands most of the time. I dont know what methods were or are used by mossback but unless you see them first hand I think its a little out of bounds to accuse. I do believe that this animal had just much of a chance being harvested by Joe the plumber during the archery or rifle hunt. However, having 50 guys on the hill locating the animal for you does help.
> 
> I know a guy whos first deer was a 2 point every year after that he said he would not shoot a deer unless it was bigger or more impressive then the deer he shot the year prior. Hes in his 60's now and hasnt hunted deer in over 15 years because he cant afford a guide and he feels he will never top the 6x8 31" buck he shot down south 15 years ago. When I asked him if he would hunt again if he could afford a guide he said "HELL YEH, JUST TO SEE ANIMALS LIKE THIS AGAIN WOULD BE WORTH THE PRICE" His answer wasnt about greed its about the chance to take a quality animal.


This is a tough deal and I'm not here trying to chap anyone off, I'm just trying to get people to see the "big picture."

I know it doesn't make sense for people to say, "well I'm going to go out and shoot whatever and my goal is nothing over a three point." 
On the other side of things, not everyone will go out and shoot a trophy class animal every year for obvious reasons.

When folks start fiddling with the playing field, well..... things get out of whack.

You asked:


> Who here if money were not an object would not want a crack at an animal like that? If I had the money, I would go on guided hunts every year. Not for the greed but for the chance to see a much higher quality animal then you see on public lands most of the time.


What about this question: If you could go out with a spotlight and your 7mm mag and kill a trophy and no one would say or do anything about it........ for the chance to see and take a much higher quality animal, would you?

Its a jump between the two, but is it a big leap? I don't really think so.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> What about this question: If you could go out with a spotlight and your 7mm mag and kill a trophy and no one would say or do anything about it........ for the chance to see and take a much higher quality animal, would you?
> 
> Its a jump between the two, but is it a big leap? I don't really think so.


It's bigger than jumping the Grand Canyon! :roll:


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > You guide for what reason? @ssback guides for what reason? Guides guide for what reason?
> ...


*
*

So your a hell of a hunter _(O)_ :lol:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > What about this question: If you could go out with a spotlight and your 7mm mag and kill a trophy and no one would say or do anything about it........ for the chance to see and take a much higher quality animal, would you?
> ...


I can certainly understand why you think it's like jumping the Grand Canyon.
To me its really not and brings back the fair chase conversation, a lot depending on what hunt and what guide and methods are used.

I can't understand why someone would want to shoot an animal in a spotlight. What is the sport or hunt in that? Likewise, what is the sport or hunt in being drug up the mountain and put on an animal. Both scenerios would take the fun out of it for me and I can't possibly fathom why that would be seen as an accomplishment or thrill in either situation.

Can you see the pimp hooker thing going on here??? I'm not going to pay for something like that, ever. It takes everything good out of it and makes it dirty and ugly. But everyone has a right to thier own opinions.......mines right and yours is wrong :lol:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I have guided more than 200 hunters over the years, and NOT ONE has "been drug up the mountain and put on an animal". Maybe I stink as a guide, because I make my hunters hunt.  My hunters who buy conservation tags spend more time in the field than my other hunters. Why? Because they are looking for a specific type of animal and they pass up dozens of animals the 'average' hunter would shoot. It is not easy for the hunter nor the guide to let 190 class bucks and 390 class bulls walk away at point blank range, yet I have been there many times when it has happened. My rifle elk hunters spend an average of 7 days in the field on their hunt, more than DOUBLE what the 'average' hunter spends on his/her hunt. How that is "being drug up the mountain and put on an animal" is a mystery to me. :? 

You're not the first pinhead to make the pimp/hooker comments, and I'm sure you won't be the last pinhead to do so, but you are still a pinhead nonetheless. :?


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I have guided more than 200 hunters over the years, and NOT ONE has "been drug up the mountain and put on an animal". Maybe I stink as a guide, because I make my hunters hunt.  My hunters who buy conservation tags spend more time in the field than my other hunters. Why? Because they are looking for a specific type of animal and they pass up dozens of animals the 'average' hunter would shoot. It is not easy for the hunter nor the guide to let 190 class bucks and 390 class bulls walk away at point blank range, yet I have been there many times when it has happened. My rifle elk hunters spend an average of 7 days in the field on their hunt, more than DOUBLE what the 'average' hunter spends on his/her hunt. How that is "being drug up the mountain and put on an animal" is a mystery to me. :?
> 
> You're not the first pinhead to make the pimp/hooker comments, and I'm sure you won't be the last pinhead to do so, but you are still a pinhead nonetheless. :?


I love your advertizements in your posts. Guided hunts are indeed a business transaction exactly like hookers, johns and pimps making sex a business transaction (couldn't help it, remember I'm a pinhead).

You make some interesting comments in many of your posts. You guide for "chicken feed" and you make your hunters scout and hunt.

What's "chicken feed?" Hell, I might hire you to pack my 10x50's that I love but hate around my neck or in my pack if I can pay you "chicken feed."

If your hunters do all the scouting and hunting your question is a valid one about your guide services stinking. What would I be paying you for other than packing my 10x50's around for me?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> I love your advertizements in your posts. Guided hunts are indeed a business transaction exactly like making sex a business transaction (couldn't help it, remember I'm a pinhead). How do you make a living w/o making 'transactions'? :?
> 
> You make some interesting comments in many of your posts. You guide for "chicken feed" and you make your hunters scout and hunt. When did I say I make my hunters scout? Put the pipe down already! By chicken feed I mean I am NOT getting rich off guiding hunters. By the time you add in fuel costs to scout, food, wear and tear on vehicles/equipment, buying equipment up to the task (Bushnell binos/spotting scopes don't cut it), there is nothing but chicken scratch left most of the time.
> 
> ...


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > I love your advertizements in your posts. Guided hunts are indeed a business transaction exactly like making sex a business transaction (couldn't help it, remember I'm a pinhead). How do you make a living w/o making 'transactions'? :?
> ...


Why should pimping a limited resource be someones job??? And unless you are completely the selfish privilage abuser that I know you are, not EVERYTHING is or SHOULD BE a transaction. Is your relationship with your wife a transaction and you pay her like a hooker for her services as well? Some things shouldn't be a business and transaction and hunting in my opinion is one of many.

You do a feable job at trying to be a [email protected]$$.

Answer this question without being a [email protected]$$

What would someone being paying you for, if someone hired you as a guide?

The cost would be for scouting and keeping you in high end equipment then huh??

Oh, by the way don't break your arm off trying to pat yourself on the back too much, you and I both know that I'd never consider hiring you as a guide.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> You do a feable job at trying to be a [email protected]$$.
> 
> Answer this question without being a [email protected]$$
> 
> ...


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > You do a feable job at trying to be a [email protected]$$.
> ...


Ahhhhhhh, ****, I'll never have enough money to hire you as a guide?.........this is going to take therapy to get over now Pro, you simply crushed me.

Why should pimping a limited resource be someones job??? And unless you are completely the selfish privilage abuser that I know you are, not EVERYTHING is or SHOULD BE a transaction. Is your relationship with your wife a transaction and you pay her like a hooker for her services as well? Some things shouldn't be a business and transaction and hunting in my opinion is one of many.

You don't understand: What would someone being paying you for, if someone hired you as a guide? OK privilage abuser,...how about: what services do you provide to your clients?
What are you being paid for when someone hires you as a guide?

Guides make money off puting an animal in the dirt. If they don't they are poor guides (no one is going to pay you for nothing) I know that many of your clients don't know shiz from shinola. They have lots of cash but few brain cells rubbing against each other. What do you do to make their hunt successful?


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I have guided more than 200 hunters over the years, and NOT ONE has "been drug up the mountain and put on an animal". Maybe I stink as a guide, because I make my hunters hunt. My hunters who buy conservation tags spend more time in the field than my other hunters. Why? Because they are looking for a specific type of animal and they pass up dozens of animals the 'average' hunter would shoot. It is not easy for the hunter nor the guide to let 190 class bucks and 390 class bulls walk away at point blank range, yet I have been there many times when it has happened. My rifle elk hunters spend an average of 7 days in the field on their hunt, more than DOUBLE what the 'average' hunter spends on his/her hunt. How that is "being drug up the mountain and put on an animal" is a mystery to me.
> 
> You're not the first pinhead to make the pimp/hooker comments, and I'm sure you won't be the last pinhead to do so, but you are still a pinhead nonetheless.


Yea, that's great Pro, you the man. I thought you guys were talking about the spider bull not how you guide your hunters.

Correct me if I'm wrong. According to the Idaho Falls newspaper article I read, Denny was at home in Idaho recovering from Carbon Monoxide poisoning when Doyal called and told him to get his a$$ back down there because thay have found Spidy again. The rest is history. If thats not being "drug up the mountain and put on the animal" then please tell us what is.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Why should pimping a limited resource be someones job??? And unless you are completely the selfish privilage abuser that I know you are, not EVERYTHING is or SHOULD BE a transaction. Is your relationship with your wife a transaction and you pay her like a hooker for her services as well? Some things shouldn't be a business and transaction and hunting in my opinion is one of many. Since what me and my wife do is NOT a transaction, no money is exchanged. What I do for an income, and what you do for an income requires a transaction. Thus, if my making a transaction makes me a pimp/hooker, what are you when you do the SAME?
> 
> You don't understand: What would someone being paying you for, if someone hired you as a guide? OK privilage abuser,...how about: what services do you provide to your clients?
> What are you being paid for when someone hires you as a guide? If you think, "What would someone being paying you for" makes sense you have serious issues. The services I provide are many: 1]I am able to field judge animals better/quicker than MOST people. 2]I take much of the stress out of the hunt allowing the hunter to just hunt.3]I will get the hunter in/out of the right country to locate/kill the desired animals they are hunting for. 4]I am a funny SOB, so my hunters have a great time laughing and enjoying the outdoors. :mrgreen: 5]I will haul/cape the animal once it has been harvested. 6]I scout the areas to be hunted while the hunter is able to continue their chosen profession over the course of the summer/early fall. 7]I am able to be objective when considering shooting an animal or not when it is within range, which allows the hunter to just worry about the shoot. There are more, but these are enough. 8)
> ...





blackdog said:


> Yea, that's great Pro, you the man. I thought you guys were talking about the spider bull not how you guide your hunters. Then stop bringing me into it. :roll:
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong. According to the Idaho Falls newspaper article I read, Denny was at home in Idaho recovering from Carbon Monoxide poisoning when Doyal called and told him to get his **** back down there because thay have found Spidy again. The rest is history. If thats not being "drug up the mountain and put on the animal" then please tell us what is. Read this slowly, I was NOT part of the spider bull hunt. I have said, and you have nothing to prove otherwise, that *I* have never had a hunter "drug up the mountain and put on an animal". What happens with other guides/outfitters is not under my control. Except for the honorable men I have the privilege of working with at PRO, none of whom would allow such an event to happen either! If they did, they would no longer be part of PRO.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

You ARE a funny guy pro, but only to laugh at not with.

Making money off limited resources shouldn't be a job. 
Drug dealers, pimps, hookers, scalpers, and others with similar "jobs" will make your same argument for sure.

Guide services' success have a lot to do with fair amounts of, and in many cases like the Spidey hunt, grundles of money exchanging hands and therefore completing the contract that the client pays for is obviously paramount. Paramount to many things. Money often taints people, thier values, judgement and behavior. PRO is obviouly the exception, since they never push the grey in any areas to achieve the completion of the contract. Yea, sure Pro.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Hmmm...This is probably some of the most non-sense BS I have read in a long time. Save up your pot money Hairy Nutzzz and maybe you might have enough money to hire a guide someday too! 

Soooo...Since I pay $$ to lease the land I hunt on makes me a poacher??? Great, how do I change my name from bwhntr to poacher? :roll: 

Again...Lame.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> HN wrot: Making money off limited resources shouldn't be a job.


So anyone in gas and oil is a poacher or pimp, all gas stations the same, that means if you buy gas you are no different than a client of Pro's.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

LMAO!!!! Stop bringing you into it? WTF?? Every time someone mentions Doyal, Spidy, guides, Gov. tags, conservation tags, Dutton, SFW, spikes, cows, bow hunting, RAC meetings, UBA, Does, ducks, bucks, rifle hunters, I-400, outfitters, Denny, regions, turkeys, squirrels, frogs, etc, etc, etc........You start typing. How many post do you have? You are by far the biggest loser I mean poster on this web site. It sure doesn't take much to bring you "into it". :roll: 

Nobody gives a rats @%& how you guide. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPIDY. Read this part slowly; The next time when someone comes on here and says that Denny just showed up and shot Spidy, don't bring yourself "into it" because you weren't there. And WTF is PRO?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Ya, you tell him...Idiot. Like we haven't heard enough from you. 153 posts WAYYYYY too many!


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

This thread needs to calm down a little, it's starting to take a bad shape....

*Lets relax a little !!!! :evil: *


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

:mrgreen: Dang it Jim! :mrgreen:


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Wasn't talking to you A-hole. I'm sure your idol Pro can speak for himself.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

blackdog said:


> Wasn't talking to you A-hole. I'm sure your idol Pro can speak for himself.


Good blackdog....


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

What I meant to say is Good bye blackdog !!!


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