# Cow moose



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Straight off the press

20) We recommend no public antlerless moose permits in 2014 as many of the moose populations in 
Utah are stable or slightly declining. 

SO WHY DO YOU STILL HAVE TO BUY BONUS POINTS FOR COW MOOSE IF NO TAGS WILL BE ISSUED?????
THIS IS NOTHING BUT A MONEY GRAB IMHO!!! IT SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW!!!


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Wait!! I didn't buy a bonus point for cow moose! Does that mean they're gonna arrest me? Where does it say that you HAVE to buy a bonus point for cow moose? I guess you could've saved 10 bucks and skipped the bonus point for this year. But then you'd have a whole bunch of people who bought points move ahead of you in the draw. Sorry. I don't see anything worth bitchin' about.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## elkantlers (Feb 27, 2014)

I agree with SWB. 
Buying a point for something that is not even available is wrong. They just need to suspend the points for cow moose until a time that there are tags available. At that time everyone that has points starts out where they left off.

The only upside I can see is that there may be people in the high point pool that drop out which would make the odds for the people that keep buying points a little better if and when there cow tags available.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I agree we should put a "hold" on it... What is the point of increasing the pool? If tags aren't there for 20 years, we will have a large pool. Pause now and we are all in the same boat.

Instead, they could announce something along the lines of "In lieu of Cow Moose Bonus points this year, we will have a $10 donation spot available where 100% of proceeds go directly to Moose habitat and management." 

Then one day all those bonus points might be usable.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

RandomElk16 said:


> I agree we should put a "hold" on it... What is the point of increasing the pool? If tags aren't there for 20 years, we will have a large pool. Pause now and we are all in the same boat.
> 
> Instead, they could announce something along the lines of "In lieu of Cow Moose Bonus points this year, we will have a $10 donation spot available where 100% of proceeds go directly to Moose habitat and management."
> 
> Then one day all those bonus points might be usable.


 In fact, it may be working that way already! Normally, the company that conducts the draw (Utah Wildlife Administrative Services out of Fallon Nevada) retains a portion of the $10 (currently $3.01) per their contract with DWR, but I think it's only if they are actually conducting a draw. And since there is no antlerless moose draw, I'm not sure they get to keep that $3.01 per application. They may have to forward the whole $10 to the DWR. It's something worth looking into. In any case, the DWR is, indeed, making money on those point applications and whether or not that's legal and/or ethical is also worth looking into. I'll check it out!

(I just realized that my 5 year waiting period was over this year and I could have purchased a point, but didn't! Shucks!)


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I know they are making money... I just wonder how much of that moose money goes to moose!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I've seen a lot of moose in my days but I've never seen one spend a dime of money...saying it will go towards moose habitat would just be another way of lying to you.

In fact, I see the DWR doing VERY little in regards to habitat for any big game species. Sure, they operate the hatcheries and stock fish in local waters but the only real thing they do with Big Game is relocate deer to places they don't want to be in the first place and pay landowners (via CWMU and Landowner Tags) to "host" the herds during the winter.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

swbuckmaster said:


> Straight off the press
> 
> 20) We recommend no public antlerless moose permits in 2014 as many of the moose populations in
> Utah are stable or slightly declining.
> ...


I wonder if the DWR has notified the wolf, coyote and mountain lion's about this change. Oh wait I forgot, some folks on here claim that predators have no affect on big game herds. My bad.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

They should suspend bonus point purchases until the moose herd recovers. Unfortunately I don't see them rebounding anytime soon.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Cow moose points are lame......especially considering that there are no tags to go along with the points. It's like a big April fools joke from the state.:mrgreen:-----SS


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

Please don't. I will and when they issue tags I will get one. My god it's only $10.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Dukes_Daddy said:


> Please don't. I will and when they issue tags I will get one. My god it's only $10.


DD Send me $10 and I'll send you back a treasure map to a pot of gold

And watch your mouth!


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

It makes me really mad that they keep selling points for an animal that in reality will never be hunted in this state again...

And yet I'll still continue buying points...


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## itchytriggerfinger (Sep 12, 2007)

How many people have max trophy cow moose points?


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Looks like there are about 320 that have 8 points


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

The interesting thing is the amount that have 1 or 2 points. Those people started when there were no tags available.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I drew a cow moose tag 5 years ago and this year is my first year off of the waiting period. Am I going to put in for a cow moose point this year? You betcha!


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

Truelife said:


> DD Send me $10 and I'll send you back a treasure map to a pot of gold
> 
> And watch your mouth!


Jolly Gee that's a good one. Could you also add me to your Utah County MLM Downline?

$10 is lunch or a movie. It's about choices and if someone wants to pay $10 to build points then it's my business and the whine factor of what the DWR does should shut up.

p.s Good looking Chukar mount


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Has anyone actually pushed the state on this? Or is it something that is just complained about online every year around this time? 

I think it is total crap myself, that is why I don't buy a point for a hunt that doesn't exist.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Dukes_Daddy said:


> Jolly Gee that's a good one. Could you also add me to your Utah County MLM Downline?
> 
> $10 is lunch or a movie. It's about choices and if someone wants to pay $10 to build points then it's my business and the whine factor of what the DWR does should shut up.
> 
> p.s Good looking Chukar mount


 Thanks for the comment

Don't do MLM though, you can keep that stuff, don't go stereotyping me because I live in Utah County ;-)

Your right, it is all about choices. However some of us feel that the DWR has to make choices just the same as the rest of us and should also have to answer for those choices.

If I were to advertise a service that I had no intention of providing, and took money from people for that service............

Yes, everyone is going to say that the guy that gave the money didn't make a good choice. But at the same time the guy that played the scam is going to get in trouble with the law.

The whine comes into play because they have us between a rock and hard place. Sure, we can just all shut up and go away quietly. And give up what we love. But we shouldn't have to do that so it makes us start to complain.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

How is putting in for a cow moose point now (when there are no tags) really any different than putting in for a deer or elk tag that you KNOW you have almost no chance of drawing for 15-20 years? If the DWR wants to continue allowing people to purchase bonus points while the moose herd rebuilds, so be it. They aren't requiring ANYONE to buy the points. Besides, you can't even buy a point yet as the antlerless draw hasn't even opened. Preliminary bit*hing?

I'm with Nambaster. 2014 is my first year off the 5-year wait list after drawing a cow moose tag in 2008. You'd better believe I'm putting in again for the chance at one. Some of the best table fare out there. Sure hurts getting them out of the woods though-O,-


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

MWScott72 said:


> How is putting in for a cow moose point now (when there are no tags) really any different than putting in for a deer or elk tag that you KNOW you have almost no chance of drawing for 15-20 years? If the DWR wants to continue allowing people to purchase bonus points while the moose herd rebuilds, so be it. They aren't requiring ANYONE to buy the points. Besides, you can't even buy a point yet as the antlerless draw hasn't even opened. Preliminary bit*hing?
> 
> I'm with Nambaster. 2014 is my first year off the 5-year wait list after drawing a cow moose tag in 2008. You'd better believe I'm putting in again for the chance at one. Some of the best table fare out there. Sure hurts getting them out of the woods though-O,-


And I'm with both of them! In my earlier post I thought I was already too late because I thought applying for a cow moose tag was like the either sex goat or bison tags which are OIL, but I'm happy I was mistaken on this thought. Whoopee! I still have time to buy a point, which I will gladly do. Buying those points are like buying insurance. Hopefully, we may never receive any service from the insurance company, but we willingly (or not)buy it nevertheless.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

MWScott72 said:


> How is putting in for a cow moose point now (when there are no tags) really any different than putting in for a deer or elk tag that you KNOW you have almost no chance of drawing for 15-20 years?


I would say because, ummmm, there are actually tags! People draw deer and elk tags. Strangely enough, they do so every year. How often do people draw cow moose tags?

Sure, they don't force you. However, those people brought up earlier with 1 or 2 points... They may not be aware of the real moose crisis going on. Not everyone stays as involved as all of us. I don't condemn them for that. They may put in for bonus points believing that they may actually get to use them.

In any other industry it is called a scam, false advertising, misleading, or any other synonym for the above. But, its ok here because no one FORCED you. Most people participate in scams voluntarily, they weren't forced so was there a crime?


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Sure, they don't force you. However, those people brought up earlier with 1 or 2 points... They may not be aware of the real moose crisis going on. Not everyone stays as involved as all of us. I don't condemn them for that. They may put in for bonus points believing that they may actually get to use them.
> 
> In any other industry it is called a scam, false advertising, misleading, or any other synonym for the above. But, its ok here because no one FORCED you. Most people participate in scams voluntarily, they weren't forced so was there a crime?


Don't they tell you to read the proc./addendum first? If someone is too lazy to do that and applies without knowing they're not going to draw a tag that year, are they really going to care? Should anyone feel sorry for them if they're disappointed to find out after the fact that they weren't going to draw a tag? I'd say that $10 lost/donated is the tip of their problems. If you care about something, you get informed...it's up to each individual to know what the rules are and how to work within the system.

I disagree that it's false advertising or misleading. The antlerless addendum will state clearly that no tags are available this year but that you can buy a point for potential future hunts. I don't see anything false or misleading about that, but you have to READ it first.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

MWScott72 said:


> Don't they tell you to read the proc./addendum first? If someone is too lazy to do that and applies without knowing they're not going to draw a tag that year, are they really going to care? Should anyone feel sorry for them if they're disappointed to find out after the fact that they weren't going to draw a tag? I'd say that $10 lost/donated is the tip of their problems. If you care about something, you get informed...it's up to each individual to know what the rules are and how to work within the system.
> 
> I disagree that it's false advertising or misleading. The antlerless addendum will state clearly that no tags are available this year but that you can buy a point for potential *future hunts*. I don't see anything false or misleading about that, but you have to READ it first.


Future hunts. This is the part that bothers me about it. Moose are at the lowest pop numbers ever and are showing no sign of return. The proc doesn't say that, does it? By offering the point, they seemingly infer that they will open up the tags in the future. There will probably never be cow moose tags again. Look at the bull moose permits, they go down every single year as well. It would make more sense to temporarily suspend cow bonus points.

Bounce around it whichever way you would like. They know what they are doing, even if we play ignorant.

EDIT: And fyi, I read the proc and do not put in for a tag that will never be available. Not everyone knows how horrible the moose population is doing. Offering points for a future hunt doesn't exactly outline the danger they are in. They could take $10 donations and apply them directly to this species that is going to disappear in our lifetime if something doesn't change.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

On a different note, TL nice signature. :O||:


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Longgun said:


> On a different note, TL nice signature. :O||:


 Thanks


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