# Pheasant Permits...?



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I was wondering if you think it would work out better for pheasant populations if they were turned into permits just like Sage Grouse and Sandhill Cranes. It seems there is beginning to be few enough of them (and has been for a while) that something more needs to be done managment wise. I say it should just be a separate permit available specifically for pheasants that would run for $10(and every dime of the money made by the UDWR *should be used wisely for pheasants*. Two birds should be the total limit for all hunters for a hunting season and that would be it, once your two different notches are cut you would be done and two is all you could shoot for the season. Heck maybe even just one. Anyways my point is *pheasants have a significant chance in parts of Utah if the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources would care a little more. *


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm absolutely, positively against any decrease in hunting opportunity. There is no reason to decrease the limit on pheasants. There are millions of reasons to fund habitat preservation and put and take hunting. Just an FYI- I've dumped plenty of wild roosters this year. Every one of them was on public ground, walk-in areas, or non-posted CRP property. There are birds out there. They just require more work to find than most people are willing to put in.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> I'm absolutely, positively against any decrease in hunting opportunity. There is no reason to decrease the limit on pheasants. There are millions of reasons to fund habitat preservation and put and take hunting. Just an FYI- I've dumped plenty of wild roosters this year. Every one of them was on public ground, walk-in areas, or non-posted CRP property. There are birds out there. They just require more work to find than most people are willing to put in.


Let me tell you a little something buddy, you obviously have never seen a real pheasant herd or actual good pheasant numbers or you wouldn't be so happy with Utah's sucky pheasant population.


> Just an FYI- I've dumped plenty of wild roosters this year.


. My exact point the few that are left are getting slaughtered out by hunters every year. I live in one of the best places a pheasant could hope for and plenty of nesting, feed, grains, corn, brush, trees, bushes, winter cover, ditchlines full of hip high tall grass, public land covered in brush, tall grass, water around, cattails and whatever the hell else you think a pheasant should have to survive. Down in my neck of the woods there is a 30 day pheasant hunt which is upsetting with the low amount of birds that are around now days. Ya I've seen about 13 or 14 roosters and 20 hens in the last month during the hunt to (but I shot 2 and that's all I'm going to shoot) but if you think thats a substantial amount you got something wrong going on in your brain because you don't know what your talking about and you just want to kill what pheasants remain in Utah or you have never experienced a real pheasant herd. The pheasant herd in Utah could use and could obtain substantial growth in the population and hunting experience. Utah is not a good state for pheasants, although it once was until the DWR got greedy over the upland and deer populations. Pheasant populations in Utah could be better maybe not everywhere in Utah but in a lot of places there could be substantial amounts of ring-necks but the DWR dosen't give a sh*** as long as they get there money to spend on there elk or god knows what.

You seem to have the plan that you just want to keep shooting them and it don't matter how many are as long as you can go out and shoot two a day when you see them and don't want to give up a little to see Utah pheasants thrive once again. Thats not the right way to go about things with the right management maybe someday you'll be able to shoot 5 in a day. Some places in Utah have destroyed to much habitat to rejuvenate pheasant numbers but a lot of Utah could have substantial pheasant numbers.

Until once again (which it will probably never happen) I can walk down a field and see this I won't be satisfied. 
































..Hell once a season would be nice.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

All the more reason to use money to add to the population rather than limit the hunting opportunities. Do you see or have you ever seen South Dakota limiting the number of pheasants killed? No. Even the commercial game farms there are required to release 2 hens for every rooster, and the hens cannot be killed like at the farms here. Folks in the Dakotas understand that pheasants need to be replaced so that opportunity can be increased. Why in the world would you want to decrease opportunity rather than increase the population? I don't get it :? .


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## huntall (Sep 11, 2007)

The problem is not how many are killed by hunters.

1 rooster is capable of breeding up to 40 hens per year, so the real solution is to make sure those eggs/chicks make it to a mature age.

Shooting roosters is not the problem.

The problem lies in habitat and predator control, if you can control both, pheasant numbers will increase.

This means controlling all predators. you can kill all of them that you see, but that doesn't hold a candle to all the others that you don't see - predators primarily hunt at night and there are hundred out there that you never see.
Also controlling the habitat, meaning mostly farming techniques like spraying, burning and grazing the habitat that pheasants need.

I have worked on a piece of land for about 4 years by trapping all predators possible and keeping all habitat possible and the results of more birds is obvious. The hunting there has increased so much that it is fairly easy to get birds everytime I go.

I have hunted the Dakotas, and the way that they farm and the states control habitat makes the difference. We can improve Utah pheasant hunting but it will never be like the Dakotas mostly because the lay of the land and how agriculture impacts it. The improvements in Utah have to be more than just sportsman asking for it or limiting what they shoot, it has to be improved by farmers and most of them are not going to change easily because they need to farm every inch of land they can. 

Not saying that there are no birds out there, cause there are, but a permit is not the solution.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Well stated, huntall. The different farming practices are apparent even as you move into much of Idaho. Many landowners there don't burn their ditches or mow around their fence lines. I don't know if predator control is much different, but the bird numbers even in Idaho are way higher than ours. They also have the Access Yes program which has hundreds of properties enrolled and available to the hunting public. Add that to the WMA's that Idaho stocks with pheasants every week and you have all kinds of hunting opportunities. Their resident licenses are cheaper than ours. They only pay $23.50 extra for the optional WMA tag, which is good for 6 extra birds. What gives? Idaho is not repressing hunting opportunity. They are finding ways to expand opportunity for everyone. I think that's what should be done here.


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

Like has been said it is not limiting hunting opportunity which is the answer. 
One of the bioligists at a RAC meeting stated the state was thinking about extending the season for pheasants by a big amount. He said we could hunt roosters for 2 months and not effect the pheasant population. I personaly think it is a good idea. Guess it didn't pass. Anyhow the answer is Habitat, Habitat, Habitat and preditor control.

Also for another note do you all know the state has told all pheasant hunting clubs who are in a NATURAL HABITAT area for pheasnts they are required to release 10% of the amount of birds they go through a year. 10000 birds shot equals 1000 bird released! Why has the DWR not been enforcing this?
I have been told this law is still in effect by two CO'S so why are they not enforcing it?
Because the state could care less about pheasants. The question is how can we as sportsman change the way the DWR thinks. The remarks I have been given is they are just giving up on pheasants.


Birds are out there, but the state will never be like it was in the past thanks to habitat loss. I guess the word for it is PROGRESS :twisted: -)O(- I guess we all need a place to live!


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I just voted no. This is a bad idea. We do not kill to many roosters that is not the problem.

Bret


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

clean pass through said:


> Like has been said it is not limiting hunting opportunity which is the answer.
> One of the bioligists at a RAC meeting stated the state was thinking about extending the season for pheasants by a big amount. He said we could hunt roosters for 2 months and not effect the pheasant population. I personaly think it is a good idea. Guess it didn't pass. Anyhow the answer is Habitat, Habitat, Habitat and preditor control.
> 
> Also for another note do you all know the state has told all pheasant hunting clubs who are in a NATURAL HABITAT area for pheasnts they are required to release 10% of the amount of birds they go through a year. 10000 birds shot equals 1000 bird released! Why has the DWR not been enforcing this?
> ...


That's basically my point, there are animals the DWR cares about (cough...elk) and animals they couldn't give a rats ass about like pheasants. From what I can see it is first pheasants they stop caring about then the mule deer then what else the entire population of all wildlife across the state. DWR care a little more about Utah's wildlife and hunting opportunities and a little less about money, other wise you can take your I dont give a sh*** attitude and stick it up your ass.


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

#1 Deer 1-I, Dude you need to calm down. When someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean we are trying to gang up on you. Take a deep breath and stop telling people they are wrong when if you read some of the responses to your post you might learn something. We all have opinions and this fourm allows us to share it. So dont jump all over somebody if they dont agree with your thoughts. :? 

Don't try to play the game of you are the only one that cares about pheasants in Utah. The fact is habitat is the main reason for lack of pheasants in Utah. The DWR can't do anything about the houses being built and habitat being lost as a result. What do you want to do, bulldose all the houses and buisness? 

I have killed about a dozen wild roosters this year and my pups have got up 100+ birds this year. Can the recruitment be better from the broods? YES. We will not gain much habitat but the habitat we have for the most part could be improved and hopefully sustained. 

Again taking hunter oportunity away from killing roosters is not the answer it is trying to keep the habitat we have left. I would support paying a little more for sustaining and improving habitat that is left but limiting the amount of roosters shot, is not the answer. Preditors also have to be thrown into the mix somewere. 

#1 Deer, I can see you are passionate about this issue, that is a good thing. Try to improve our over all knowledge and then lets put a plan together and get the state to try to see some positives about pheasants in Utah. You are right Utah seems to just want to manage the big money species.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes on permits if the DWR plants birds and I use the permit(s) to tag those harvested. Attractive option in the face of the cost of travel and what the preserves charge. This would put the DWR into competition with the preserves but if it gets kids and families out so be it.


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## huntall (Sep 11, 2007)

Dukes_Daddy

Idaho has a program like what you have described.
Not a bad idea

Only downside that I see is it may concentrate alot of hunters to small areas thoughout the state.
State may want to limit the amount of permits sold for each area.


Sounds like this whole thing could turn into a "Pheasant Limited Enrty Draw"


I would personally like to see the hunting improved statewide and I have left my remarks on this subject in an earlier post.


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

Well said clean pass.

I understand how it could feel like you are the only one that cares, but there are others like us. The idea you have I believe is the wrong aproach that is all. I love the fact that you are thinking about it. Pheasants are a little differant because of the **** only harvest. I think if you do some research you might change your mind a little.

I think the biggest thing that is missing in the available remaining habitat is opertunity. There in lies one of the biggest challenges.... Private ground. If guys can't hunt pheasants why should they care? When they changed the tresspass law a few years back some said it would be the end of pheasant hunting in Utah. Well it wasn't, but it did change things for most of us. I know guys that want to hunt I can't even take them and introduce them to the sport because all the stuff I have access to is private and restricted access. My point is As long as there are a number of us that still care we can work on things like improving existing habitat. I think we need to keep working on access to ground as well the WIA is a start.

I don't think cutting hunter numbers will do anything productive. You can not stock pile pheasants that is just the truth.

Bret


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

Good posts fellas............


I know I may get flamed but I think if you live in Utah and love to hunt Upland you best learn to hunt Chukars, and Forest grouse. Sure kill a phez or two but IMO it is crazy to feed a dog all year for 3 weeks of Phez hunting when lots of other opportunities abound!Phez habitat is declining every day....and chukar and FG habitat is very abundant..


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

Thack what are you doing? Guys I am with you leave the chukar and grouse alone and lets try to fix the pheasant problems. They are the only bird we should care about or hunt anyway.


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