# Muzzy Newbie



## Raven_6 (Sep 10, 2017)

Hi All,

Well, after a disappointing general season this year, I've decided to expand my hunting horizons and challenge myself to hunting with a muzzleloader. 

Im asking you, my friends, to help me choose which muzzleloader is best for a beginner like me for next year. Keep in mind I am not at all familiar with this type of firearm. I am looking for something that is somewhat easy to operate, load, maintain, etc. I apologize in advance for this next question, I don't know if it will offend anyone... but, Is it general practice to have a scope on a muzzleloader? I figure if most shots are under 100 yards, a lot of hunters would just use iron sights. What are some of the dangers of muzzleloaders? I work in a trauma ICU and ever so often I see patients that have some pretty significant hand injuries related to muzzleloaders. I plan on hunting deer and elk with it next year. I am not familiar with any Muzzy jargon so please have patience with me. 

Also, if any of you have any muzzleloaders that you might be looking to sell, send me a PM.

Much appreciated.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

With the muzzle loader regulations in Utah the muzzle loader hunt has turned into a single shot rifle hunt. 

As for what one to get it will depend on what you like. I personally like the side locks or ones that have a exposed hammer on the side of the rifle. It looks more like a traditional one that was used back in the early 1800's. I also have a inline one or one that the hammer is on the back of the barrel much like a modern high power rifle. These rifles are usually what you will see out in the woods with a scope on them. Most of them ignite the powder via 209 shotgun primer in a breech plug. I have a Thompson Center Renegade side lock along with a Thompson Center Triumph which is a inline but another popular one is the CVA Optima. Both are good rifles. 

Maintenance is easy on both of them, just pop out the breech plug and clean like a high power rifle. 

As for a scope on one I don't like it, but you can if you want. I also hunt in Colorado where scopes are not legal on a muzzle loader so I keep mine simple with a open sight. However hunters are extending the range of a muzzle loader out to 300 yards + with the scopes on the rifles. 

Now for the injuries, that can happen with any firearm. But muzzle loaders can be loaded beyond safe level quite easy by a person that doesn't know what he is doing or wants a bigger boom. If you keep the loads at the manufactures recommended levels you should have no problems.

So any other questions just ask away. There are a lot of us on here that shoot the smoke pole and will be glad to help.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

CVA Acura V2 is a good Rifle. Price varies depending on which one you get. $350-$600 I'm guessing. The higher price would have a scope mounted on it. Check out Midway USA on line, and you can see what many options there are. 


Powder, Sabot, Bullets, Primers can run about $100 for it all. Have to have a good cleaning rod. I like the brass range rod. $40. That will get you going and then you can add more "stuff" as you go.


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## scpete (Nov 18, 2017)

This was my first year with a muzzle loader. I hunted spike elk in central Utah. A few months ago I bought a CVA Accura V2. I also bought a Nikon 3x9 on it and sighted it in at 75 yds.
My Nikon is the Inline XR with graduations going down. The lowest at 340 while sighting in at 75 yds. Nikon has a cool web site called spoton.nikonsportoptics.com that helps with the graduations and the load your using. I practiced with it, felt comfortable with the reloading. I really got comfortable with it. Once the hunt finally came I felt pretty confident with my equipment. I got lucky and shot my spike at over 200 yds. 
I realize this is supposed to be a primitive hunt. But I take advantage at what the law will allow. I need/want the meet in my freezer. Good or bad, I respect all opinions regarding the hunt. When I was at Lee Kay sighting in, I had a young man with a flint lock next to me...I kinda regretted my decision and wanted to go out and play Jeremiah Johnson on my hunt...but I didn't.
Just go out and handle lots of muzzle loaders and see whats most comfortable against your shoulder and read a few reviews...including caps/209, bullets, and powders. Then make your best educated guess.
As far as safety, don't get in a hurry, pay attention, know how far your rod will go down the barrel with AND without a load in it. You don't want a double load. It can bite you if you are careless.
Best of luck!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

scpete said:


> Nikon has a cool web site called spoton.nikonsportoptics.com that helps with the graduations and the load your using.


Its complete crap. Their calculations are way way off.

-DallanC


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## Roboz (May 30, 2018)

I went with the optima v2 also, super happy with it, groups are great with BH209 and Hornady SST or the Barnes. I mounted a 3x9 Nikon that i had laying around and used the spot on app when sighting it in, the app was close for me when i put in the correct information (velocity etc.) and got it dialed in to 300 yards. I got mine from www.muzzle-loaders.com for $268...Good luck and have fun with it!


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Raven_6 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Well, after a disappointing general season this year, I've decided to expand my hunting horizons and challenge myself to hunting with a muzzleloader.
> 
> Im asking you, my friends, to help me choose which muzzleloader is best for a beginner like me for next year. Keep in mind I am not at all familiar with this type of firearm. I am looking for something that is somewhat easy to operate, load, maintain, etc.


If your serious about muzzy, and not a traditionalist, then I'd spend the extra cash and get something with a melonited barrel. It's far more forgiving on maintenance. As an aside, do not get into muzzy thinking you'll have the mountain to yourself, because you won't. Especially during elk season. Muzzy is far more popular then you might think.



> I apologize in advance for this next question, I don't know if it will offend anyone... but, Is it general practice to have a scope on a muzzleloader? I figure if most shots are under 100 yards, a lot of hunters would just use iron sights.


This year was my first year on muzzy, and one thing is pretty obvious to me is that given the ballistics involved, a scope's value is debatable. Can you be more accurate? Sure, but only up to a point. A variable power scope like a 3-9, in my opinion, is a waste of money, and is needlessly adding weight to your smoke pole that your going to be lugging all over creation. If I were to put a scope on mine (and I am thinking about it), id go for a fixed 4 power scope. Lighter, more durable, better light transmission then a variable, and the magnification is all that is needed, but that's just my opinion. There are some people out there who pride themselves on center-fire rifle range shots; personally, I think the margin of error is too high with muzzy ballistics for an ethical shot at those extreme ranges.

Aside from that, if sticking with Iron sights, I'd ditch the factory sights. Odds are the rear sight will be halfway down the barrel, and your not getting the longest sight radius possible. I went with a rear aperture sight that is mounted as far back on the barrel as I can. If you go this route, you'll probably need to get a lower front sight post, and possibly shim up the rear sight.

Ballistically speaking, your looking at roughly a 100 to 125 yard zero. The most predominate caliber is 50 cal, and is the easiest to find loads for. As a beginner (like me), You'll typically be shooting a 250 grain projectile with 100 grains of powder.

You have two choices on projectile, full sized conical, or a sabot (45 cal in a jacket sized to 50 cal). Sabot's have a lower B.C, and a little flatter shooting as compared to full sized projectiles. That said, once either projectile starts to drop, it becomes an extreme arc, and your literally lobbing the round in.

You have two choices of powder. Preformed pellets and loose powder. Preformed pellets offer you easier loading, with each pellet equivalent to 50 grains of black powder. So your charge will be limited to 100 grains on the average, or 150 grains if you want to go "magnum". That's pretty much it.

With loose powder you can work your load for the best ballistic performance. You can up your load to say 110 grains of powder, instead of just 100. However, now you have to work with powder flasks, and the whole traditional toolset. It's really up to you. Currently I'm using pellets, but I see myself switching to loose powder sometime in the future when I get around to working out a load. Speaking of which, not all projectiles are perform equally. Some will group better out of your smoke pole then others. Try a variety of bullets, and see which will work better for YOUR muzzy.



> What are some of the dangers of muzzleloaders? I work in a trauma ICU and ever so often I see patients that have some pretty significant hand injuries related to muzzleloaders. I plan on hunting deer and elk with it next year. I am not familiar with any Muzzy jargon so please have patience with me.


 Two biggest dangers that I'm aware of, is using smokeless powder by accident. (instant pipe bomb), or your powder and round not seated all the way. Make sure your load is seated completely to the back of the barrel. It helps to make marks on your ramrod, an unloaded mark, and a loaded mark. I check mine on occasion, but I have yet to have the load shift up the barrel. EDIT: Double loading is a third danger if your not paying attention to what your doing.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

I personally would get a fixed 6X scope


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## carcass (Aug 14, 2017)

This year was my first with a muzzleloader and I had a lot of fun. Got a T/C Triumph that could take a 150 grain charge, but I only used 100. You can buy preformed pellets in 20 and 30 grain sizes too, not just 50 if you want to play around some to find out what your rifle likes best. More powder doesn't always mean better accuracy though. 

To me, a scope isn't necessary for 100-120 yard shots for deer. I do have a Nikon on mine because I like spending money. I think it made a difference in a very low light shot 6 minutes before the end if the day. I couldn't see the buck well with my eyes but when I looked through the scope, it was much more defined and it was "brighter."

You don't need to spend a lot of money. Yea, yiu can spend 7-900 for the Remington that has a longer barrel, but do you really need tha


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## Fogtripper (Jun 6, 2016)

DallanC said:


> Its complete crap. Their calculations are way way off.
> 
> -DallanC


I suspect they are accurate as long as you know your muzzle velocity. I found that unless you determine that much on your own, their "stock" MVs are way too low.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Fogtripper said:


> I suspect they are accurate as long as you know your muzzle velocity. I found that unless you determine that much on your own, their "stock" MVs are way too low.


I'm the author of PointBlank Ballistics software. I've been writing external ballistics equations for over 20 years. I'm telling you flat out I've found their calculations to be way off. I'll concede that perhaps they've corrected their math errors in later versions, but after I got a couple of their scopes and ran their software, then compared to mine and in-field testing... they were way off.

I take it a step beyond just knowing your velocity, in my software I wrote a BC Calculator that allows a person to compute the actual SD for a projectile vs using inflated MFG numbers.

I know alot about this stuff actually.

-DallanC


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## knight2 (Sep 29, 2018)

I would say get something light and cheap.i would also get a bh209 capable gun.

I have a CVA wolf ($130 at Walmart a few years ago) and it's an honest 250 yard gun with 300 Parker be's and bh209. It's my backup gun or thick brush gun. It's light and I can carry it all day. I still have a lite vortex red dot on it. A scope wouldn't gain me much, the energy starts lacking after 250 yds.

My primary gun is a custom sabotless 458 built on a savage topped with a nightforce. It is 14 lb and it is +500 yard gun on big game (has energy past that). I have killed two bucks with it so far. Farthest was 280 yards which is a chip shot with my platform if I am prone.


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## knight2 (Sep 29, 2018)

I run a kestrel ballistic calculator and use Moa either dialed or hold over. Custom drops only work for one bullet at a set velocity.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I love a good "what's the best" thread.


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

Back in the day hunting with a muzzle loader or a bow meant you were hunting with traditional equipment like wooden non mechanical bows and traditional flint lock muzzleloaders with open sights. I understand that the DNR gave these hunts more time because they were much more difficult and required much closer ranges with traditional equipment than a modern rifle. Fast forward to now and you have modern inline muzzleloaders with scopes that can shoot to 300 yards, and every other elk I shoot has a broad head buried in it's backstrap because every swinging dick with a compound bow thinks he can make an unethical shot on an animal at 80 yards with a bow.


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