# WLH finally gets pinched



## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Charges were filed against Wade Lemon in Millard County on April 4, 2022 in two separate cases. Both are "Trespassing During a Wildlife Related Activity" under 23-20-14. One offense was from January of 2021 and the other is 2/25/22. Both filed the same day in Millard County, both class B misdemeanors.

Case numbers:
221000050
221000049


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

He will talk his way out of it. Class Bs are nothin. If he can talk his way out of shooting a trophy sheep on a closed unit, trespassing charges will never stick


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

MooseMeat said:


> He will talk his way out of it. Class Bs are nothin. If he can talk his way out of shooting a trophy sheep on a closed unit, trespassing charges will never stick


Or just pay it and chalk it up as a cost of doing business. It'd likely be a piddling sum like the legislator got. 

Besides, I'm sure the client paid way more towards "conservation" with his/her permit than 20 knucklehead regular hunters would.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Catherder said:


> Or just pay it and chalk it up as a cost of doing business. It'd likely be a piddling sum like the legislator got.
> 
> Besides, I'm sure the client paid way more towards "conservation" with his/her permit than 20 knucklehead regular hunters would.


He will fight it. With a conviction the division can go after hunting right if they wanted to. Better to have it thrown out all together than risk the repercussions of a conviction down the road


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

MooseMeat said:


> He will fight it. With a conviction the division can go after hunting right if they wanted to. Better to have it thrown out all together than risk the repercussions of a conviction down the road


Maybe, especially since the complaint is "Trespassing During a Wildlife Related Activity" instead of a basic trespassing violation. That is probably something the lawyers here could better enlighten us about. 
However, I doubt he would give a second thought about shelling out $400 each to make these go away.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Catherder said:


> Maybe, especially since the complaint is "Trespassing During a Wildlife Related Activity" instead of a basic trespassing violation. That is probably something the lawyers here could better enlighten us about.
> However, I doubt he would give a second thought about shelling out $400 each to make these go away.


That's why I posted it. As a true knucklehead, I do admit I take joy in seeing something finally stick.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The trespassing while participating in a wildlife activity is in the wildlife code, and subjects it to other types of penalties. I don't know this, but I wonder if a violation like this could put his guide license in jeopardy? I'm not well-versed in that area, but I'm guessing that could be a problem for him if convicted. If so, he'll be fighting it until the end, of course, no matter how much evidence they have.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Either way, because the charges were filed, the state must feel they have the evidence to convict. I've seen charges filed in relation to wildlife violations (poaching) and the state has accepted a plea of reduced charges and monetary fines. The violator looses hunting privilege's for X amount of years and pays a leaser fine for admitting guilt of said charges. In Lemans situation with a guiding license, a plea may not be on the table. However it turns out, he should be stripped of his guide license. A guide, I hope would be held at higher standards of upholding the rules and regulations than a "regular knucklehead".


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

A conviction for a class B misdemeanor can result in fines, a loss of hunting privileges, and even jail time, a judge's discretion of course. But even if he lost his guides license, he could sell or possibly lease his outfitting business to his wife, son, or other trusted family member for the duration of the suspension. I've seen it happen in other cases similar to this.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Unfortunately, you also have to have a County Attorney that is willing to carry the case to the court. I have seen a number of wildlife violations where DWR law enforcement have called it a slam dunk, only to get it to the County Attorney and the basically drop the case because they have more important things to do or are stretched too thin.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Daisy said:


> Unfortunately, you also have to have a County Attorney that is willing to carry the case to the court. I have seen a number of wildlife violations where DWR law enforcement have called it a slam dunk, only to get it to the County Attorney and the basically drop the case because they have more important things to do or are stretched too thin.


This absolutely could happen. Resources and prioritization will always happen. And then there is the cases like the Nebo sheep case with, just coincidentally I'm sure - the same person involved, when the DWR specifically asked the county attorney not to pursue the case. And it wouldn't be the first time law enforcement believed their case was better than it actually was...


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> This absolutely could happen. Resources and prioritization will always happen. And then there is the cases like the Nebo sheep case with, just coincidentally I'm sure - the same person involved, when the DWR specifically asked the county attorney not to pursue the case.


Probably a discussion for another thread, but the Nebo sheep case made the DWR look *really* bad and I felt how it was handled threw some DWR staff under the bus. (my opinion) I wonder if the division is fed up with continued poor behavior of these guys and is now making it a priority to have the resources to take them on in court. 

I also wonder if things like this contributed in the legislative push to curtail trail cams.


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Catherder said:


> Probably a discussion for another thread, but the Nebo sheep case made the DWR look *really* bad and I felt how it was handled threw some DWR staff under the bus. (my opinion) I wonder if the division is fed up with continued poor behavior of these guys and is now making it a priority to have the resources to take them on in court.
> 
> I also wonder if things like this contributed in the legislative push to curtail trail cams.


It seems pretty clear they are trying to pull back the leash on some of the guiding outfits, wouldn't surprise me if this was part of that pressure.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Catherder said:


> Probably a discussion for another thread, but the Nebo sheep case made the DWR look *really* bad and I felt how it was handled threw some DWR staff under the bus. (my opinion) I wonder if the division is fed up with continued poor behavior of these guys and is now making it a priority to have the resources to take them on in court.
> 
> I also wonder if things like this contributed in the legislative push to curtail trail cams.


Not your opinion.

I talked to that biologist in Price back then, he wasn't pleased. Got told back then but another DWR Leo, that Wade was infamous for that kind of crap, and sooner or later he would get what he has coming.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

With kalan basically running the show as it is, wade could lose hunting rights and still not be impacted hardly at all, if any.


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## Old Cowboy (Oct 19, 2021)

Does anyone know when he is scheduled to appear? I would like to be there.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

WLH fits the exact stereotype for big money hunting, privilege among rich, and pretty much everything I dislike about hunting. 

It use to be Mossback that was knocked, but anymore it seems like WLH is one of the worst. No surprises that this is happening: the sheep incident, his client and BFF was the one who requested the variance last year after hunting, etc etc..

Same old.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Old Cowboy said:


> Does anyone know when he is scheduled to appear? I would like to be there.


I’m guessing all initial hearings will be via WebEx. You can still watch since Utah courts are public in nature, but you have to contact the court for a link to login.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm guessing a certain set of sheds were the attraction to be on the property. IMHO, if someone trespasses to obtain shed antlers, they also should be charged for theft.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

If that is the actual reason, that has to be one of the most ridiculous ones I've heard.


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## Old Cowboy (Oct 19, 2021)

OK, I'll play. What if his hounds were on a hot trail and they treed something on private ground. He started on BLM ground but them damned dogs just ignored the No Tresspasing signs and treed the cat/bear or whatever on private ground. He forgot to ask permission to retrieve the dogs.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Aren't dogs supposed to be under owner control at all times? The owner should know not to run them in a place in which trespass was a likely outcome.

Am I correct? I know if I take my dogs of leash on forest service land and they injure domestic sheep that I am held liable for their actions.

Different question: who is the business registered under and who "owns" the commercial hunting license? If it's him and they have a strong case than I would hope this commercial hunting license is under review. Minor infractions are one thing but the allegations of trespass, and the previous incidents, are anything but minor. And the penalty for a commercial license holder should be steeper than the one against a individual we just saw handed down.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> Aren't dogs supposed to be under owner control at all times? The owner should know not to run them in a place in which trespass was a likely outcome.
> 
> Am I correct? I know if I take my dogs of leash on forest service land and they injure domestic sheep that I am held liable for their actions.


Your ignorance on all things hunting is hysterical.

carry on in your fantasy land 😂


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

With GPS hound tracking collar technology used almost universally by houndsmen today one can easily keep track and control your dogs. The Garmin receiver has a map that shows your dog's location, I believe the standard map software shows private vs public land, but I put an onX chip in mine so I can see the different landowner names as well. The collars also have a shock/tone feature where you can "communicate" with your dogs if needed. With my more experienced hounds all I have to do is tone them and they'll stop what they are doing and return to me. They can even be chomping on a bear's ass but once they hear that tone they respond, usually reluctantly, because they know what would be coming next if they didn't. With my younger dogs I may have to take them through the whole learning curve.

Bottom line is that I know where all my dogs are, and if desired, I can get them back with a push of a button. Wade, I'm sure, would have the same system.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

MooseMeat said:


> Your ignorance on all things hunting is hysterical.
> 
> carry on in your fantasy land 😂


Yet another hateful post on your part. And there you were behaving like a civilized adult for a few days.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Kevin D said:


> With GPS hound tracking collar technology used almost universally by houndsmen today one can easily keep track and control your dogs. The Garmin receiver has a map that shows your dog's location, I believe the standard map software shows private vs public land, but I put an onX chip in mine so I can see the different landowner names as well. The collars also have a shock/tone feature where you can "communicate" with your dogs if needed. With my more experienced hounds all I have to do is tone them and they'll stop what they are doing and return to me. They can even be chomping on a bear's ass but once they hear that tone they respond, usually reluctantly, because they know what would be coming next if they didn't. With my younger dogs I may have to take them through the whole learning curve.
> 
> Bottom line is that I know where all my dogs are, and if desired, I can get them back with a push of a button. Wade, I'm sure, would have the same system.


That's what I was guessing. I can't imagine running hounds near private property and not have the technology to keep my animals under control. 

We have a lesser system for our rescue dog that can tap, tone or buzz them up to a mile away. I've only superficially looked at other systems above my price bracket but it seems like its pretty phenomenal at this point


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Looks like he should be up for license renewal in the summer of 2023. I haven't read through all of the relevant codes thoroughly but I'd hope those responsible for approval would take any potential conviction into account during the process. Most licensed occupations take legal convictions pretty seriously when it comes to renewal or even revocation. 

I wonder if a plea deal would have a similar impact? The case down here of trespassing while hunting involved 3 years hunting ban but the record was to be eventually erased. I'd be curious to see how that would play out with a licensing board.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

__





DOPL - Hunting Guide







dopl.utah.gov





You can click on the criminal history tab.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> Yet another hateful post on your part. And there you were behaving like a civilized adult for a few days.


You haven’t experienced “hateful”…

and you obviously haven’t experienced any hound hunting. While many can control their dogs through gps in today’s world, that was far from the case even 10 years ago. There are still many who don’t own that system that run hounds. Pretty hard to control where they end up with a telemetry system


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

It's unfortunate that you have a lower low and prettier approach to other users here. I shouldn't be shocked from a previously banned individual.

But I've dealt with far worse and sophisticated trolling. At the end of the day it seems like the best option is name it for what it is. If you choose to see that as a challenge to behave worse than that's on you.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

MooseMeat said:


> You haven’t experienced “hateful”…
> 
> and you obviously haven’t experienced any hound hunting. While many can control their dogs through gps in today’s world, that was far from the case even 10 years ago. There are still many who don’t own that system that run hounds. Pretty hard to control where they end up with a telemetry system


You did notice my post had multiple questions, correct? It's almost like I exposed a certain level of uncertainty and curiosity. 

And nope, never hunted with hounds. No real appeal except for eventually getting a dog from my friend in Idaho and training it for upland game. 

Funny that you think I have any ego attached to being a novice hunter in general.

But in every sport and endeavor on public land, at least federal, the standard is for your animals, wether hounds for hunting or pets, to be under the control of the owner. If you fail to do that you are a liability to them, yourself and the sport. And if you are incompetent enough to have your animal trespass then I guess my already minimal expectations were too high.

I sincerely hope your "standard" of operation isn't very common. It would be a horrible reflection on hunters. It's funny that this is the petty little hill you decide to fight on. I'm not sure you understand how that reflects on you as a hunter. 

Our of curiosity, how important are ethics and lawful behavior to you as a hunter? Was that always the case? I'm not personally convinced of either after looking at what appears to be your previously banned accounts. Thus far the horse's mouth isn't really a source I trust but feel free to disabuse me of that skepticism. I make mistakes here and maybe I'm confused about that other account. Or maybe not?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> You did notice my post had multiple questions, correct? It's almost like I exposed a certain level of uncertainty and curiosity.
> 
> And nope, never hunted with hounds. No real appeal except for eventually getting a dog from my friend in Idaho and training it for upland game.
> 
> ...


You’re gonna have to be more specific on which account you’re talking about. There’s many to choose from.

yeah I made a mistake as a kid, 10 years ago, which I never denied any wrong doing. I had an officer that wanted to hang me for a long time, so when he got the chance, he threw the book at me. I was charged with 9 violations. Only 1 stuck, which was reduced significantly. Paid fines upfront, community service was done immediately and completed my probation successfully. I also did not lose my hunting rights (which is unheard of these days), I got my truck returned to me and the weapon I used to commit the violation, was also released to me (also something that NEVER happens in a poaching case with a conviction). So ask yourself, if what I did was so bad, how did I get all my stuff back, including the weapon, which never gets returned to the offender upon conviction, was it really as bad of an offense in the first place? 🤔 the only one who really knows what happened that day was me. There was far more at play than what anyone will ever really know about from reading any court documents or anything from a banned account on here 🤣

yes laws and ethics are very important to. Countless hunting trips and hundreds of harvests and 1 time I got in a little trouble, for taking an animal I had a tag for 😂 please focus more on that. Im flattered you’ve taken the time from your very busy life in an attempt to dig up the little dirt that is on me. Good on ya! 👍🏿 If you find anything else, please don’t hesitate to tell me about it because I love to learn new things about myself I didn’t previously know.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

That's an interesting form of public accountability.

So tell me, why should anyone trust you about claims of ethical and legal behavior associated with anything, especially hunting? I mean, given your waiving of ability to control hounds during a hunt why should I believe you care about basic responsibility and such in our sport and on our public lands?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Alright gents, enough of the arguing please. Please take it to the PMs.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Back on topic, do we know if it had anything to do with hounds? I haven't heard anything about the specifics of the alleged infraction(s).

Until that is revealed, it seems too early to play the "what about" game.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> That's an interesting form of public accountability.
> 
> So tell me, why should anyone trust you about claims of ethical and legal behavior associated with anything, especially hunting? I mean, given your waiving of ability to control hounds during a hunt why should I believe you care about basic responsibility and such in our sport and on our public lands?


Somewhere you have gotten the impression that I care about anything you have to say? I’m sorry for giving you that impression. I sincerely mean it when I say, I don’t care about your opinion of me or what you believe about my “ethics”. Trust me or don’t trust me. I don’t care. Im not a dishonest person and I follow the laws. But if you think I’ll lose sleep over what some faceless clown on the internet thinks of me, you need to re-evaluate your status in life and who you believe your opinion matters to.

as far as hounds go, running telemetry collars, or even young dogs off gps collars, it’s hard to control where a lion, bear or bobcat might lead the chase through. I can speak to that first hand. I’ve seen it many times. And until recently, all houndsmen will say the same once you let them off a leash. GPS collars have made it much easier to control your dogs, however it isn’t a bullet proof system and has much room for error in certain circumstances. I’m in no way sticking up for WLH, but if his hounds were on private and he went to go get them, then it’s a simple case of trespassing that will be dealt with accordingly. My guess is there is much more to it than that, and it probably has nothing to do with hounds. Either way if dogs are involved, you have to go get your dogs, especially if they are your “responsibility” as you like to put it.

put yourself in his shoes. A race ends up on private. You gonna let them sit there and potentially cause issues or are you going to get them? I’m going to go get them. So would everyone else. Particularly if livestock is on the property.

edit: someone on here was kind enough to drop me some info on skeletons in your closet. Which are far worse than anything I’ve done. I’ll be the bigger man here and not publicly humiliate you. But all I’ve got to say is WOW 😮


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## ns450f (Aug 28, 2018)

🍿🍺


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

That seems to be where ethical hunters and others diverge.

I don't hunt anything unless I firmly believe what I'm doing is legal, and my family will attest how much I research such details. And for anything involving hounds, that includes not losing control to such an extent they trespass. Ethical people recognize that line and admit it when they failed, without minimizing the situation. Justifying otherwise is an abject failure.

Our sport exists because of people who act ethically, even when it's hard and inconvenient. Those who act otherwise AND then minimize their failures are a threat to our sport and all hunters. People who fail to exhibit the level of humility and honesty regarding those bright lines don't deserve the privilege of participating in our community. Ego and hubris seem to be common traits amongst people who fail those basic litmus tests.

And I don't believe anyone cares what I say but I'll name certain behaviors publicly anyways as making it publicly known that certain behaviors aren't acceptable is paramount to protecting our sport. And that's true for the unsuccessful self-taught big hunter like me all the way up to those who are so sure of their skill and wisdom in hunting, like WLH.

And if he's innocent of the allegations than he won't end up with multiple charges being successfully prosecuted against him. Thank goodness the vast majority of hunters don't have that sort of problematic ethical and legal record.

To Catherder's post, I'm personally not skilled enough to check out the case numbers. Nor do I know if it would list that sort of detail. I will admit I was 100% responding to a hypothetical and didn't realize it was a possible allegation involving this case. That's my bad. Hopefully reporting will eventually expose more details.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> That seems to be where ethical hunters and others diverge.
> 
> I don't hunt anything unless I firmly believe what I'm doing is legal, and my family will attest how much I research such details. And for anything involving hounds, that includes not losing control to such an extent they trespass. Ethical people recognize that line and admit it when they failed, without minimizing the situation. Justifying otherwise is an abject failure.
> 
> ...


What you “believe” to be legal, and what is actually legal is probably not always the same thing.

ethics vary from hunter to hunter, and ethics most definitely are not law. What you determine to be ethical, could likely be legal. Just because you don’t agree with it, doesn’t mean it’s illegal.

don’t get all high and mighty when you don’t even know the details of this case or have any experience in the topics surrounding the alleged behavior/wrong doing. WL has 2 trespassing charges. I haven’t heard any details about the case other than that. Neither does anyone else from what I’ve found.

nilla probably knows more details about it than anyone I assume, but he hasn’t shared anything other than what has been found on forums full of guys speculating on what happened.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I 100% have no problem judging an outfitter with such a reputation. It's not hard to follow the law and 99% of hunters do it. And outfitters are ambassadors of our sport and are held to a higher standard. Once you choose to make a living off of using a public resource you open yourself up to public criticism and even ridicule.

And the ethic of following the law and having the humility to admit when you failed and take full accountability isn't a tough one. And it's a fairly bright line.

Egos that float through the stratosphere evidently lack any sense of irony when it comes to "high and mighty". But maybe that's what's needed to win the crackerjack box Modern Day Teddy Roosevelt award.

Start stretching and see how low we can go in this hunting limbo.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

MooseMeat said:


> edit: someone on here was kind enough to drop me some info on skeletons in your closet. Which are far worse than anything I’ve done. I’ll be the bigger man here and not publicly humiliate you. But all I’ve got to say is WOW 😮


Oh do share. I'd love to know what heinous hunting and fishing crimes I've committed so I know what CO to blame and immediately start minimizing it's severity.

You often resort to very empty rhetoric but this one may take the cake.

Will be fun to see who people think I am. Maybe I'm a better, yet less ethical, hunter than I realized. Maybe I've actually taken a shot at a big game animal in a past life and even harvested one. My memory hasn't been great after having a child so maybe I forgot about the multitude of charges I was prosecuted on. 

Inquiring minds.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't know Wade personally, but some of my hound buddies have done some dog trading with him over the years so I know of him. I can't speak for his character, but I do know he's an experienced houndsman that has had and likely still has some top notch hounds. Whether he was running hounds at the time of his trespassing violation or not I don't know. What I do know is that no serious big game hound dogger still relies exclusively on telemetry systems anymore for dog recovery, GPS systems are that much better. To think that Wade hadn't upgraded to a modern GPS system given his experience, occupation, and value of his dogs to me is unfathomable.

I still have my old telemetry system in the garage, but it's been years since strapped an ancient beep collar on one of my dogs.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

No clue if hounds were involved in these charges but if they were, why would a successful outfitter use antiquated technology when so much money is on the line? It definitely lacks any logic or strategic sense as was just outlined.

If they were involved, why would a professional not have control over an asset like the hounds they advertise and use to succeed and attract wealthy customers? From a liability and cost perspective that would just be a reckless practice. High quality GPS technology is a cheap tool for such professionals to protect their dogs, reduce liability and increase success.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> Oh do share. I'd love to know what heinous hunting and fishing crimes I've committed so I know what CO to blame and immediately start minimizing it's severity.
> 
> You often resort to very empty rhetoric but this one may take the cake.
> 
> ...


Did I say it was hunting related?

you would actually have to go hunting first for that to happen. You’re just all hot air. Nothing more beyond that.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Do share Moose.

You call admitting being unskilled as a big game hunter "hot air"? Heck, I love upland hunting but wouldn't rate my skill as more than mediocre, but it gets me outside into gorgeous terrain and an occasional but delicious meal. Unusual definition for hot air but it fits alongside your concept of accountability.

Go forward and reveal the contents of your container of my skeletons you brave soul. You regularly attack people on other threads so feel free to climb out of your muddy wallow and actually substantiate your vague threats of knowledge of me. Inquiring minds.

Or do we need to add lame rumor mongering to your CV as an insecure hunter who appears to have admitted to being prosecuted for 8 different violations. If I understand correctly you've been successfully charged with more than WLH, talk about aspirational. 8 to his zero is quite the accomplishment.



MooseMeat said:


> yeah I made a mistake as a kid, 10 years ago, which I never denied any wrong doing. I had an officer that wanted to hang me for a long time, so when he got the chance, he threw the book at me. I was charged with 9 violations. All but 1 stuck, which was reduced significantly.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I will say I'm not shocked you interjected a vague rumor about me that isn't even related to subject of hunting, nonetheless as relevant to this topic.

Nonetheless, it sounds like you are in possession of skeletons that want to dance in public. Put on your little show, kid.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Haha so sins only count if they are hunting related? Interesting you are willing judge someone you’ve never met off something they did in the mountains, but what happens off the mountain has no relevance to character of a person. I love the pick and choose convenience game you like to play. Very telling.

anyways, keep rambling on about stuff you know nothing about. It’s very enjoyable and keeps this place alive until draw results are posted and we get flooded with “hey drew this tag, don’t know where to go, tell me which rock to sit on” and the “**** the DWR! I didn’t draw a general archery deer tag with 14 preference points again” posts.

carry on bottom feeder, carry on.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Backcountry and Moosemeat, I'll give you two a choice. Either take this to the Private Message system that is available on the form here or I'll put both of you into a corner for a few days with a timeout.

Your choice

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I'll move on and we are still left with the theme of how to deal with organizations and individuals with the reputations discussed in this thread. From a public, not legal perspective, these repeat offenders severely damage our credibility as a community. And despite pleas for some sort of mercy it's not really a valid expectation to just let the courts handle it. That's how violations are prosecuted and licensing is settled but there are also functions a community has to "policing" itself. 

People constantly worry about "antis" when it's these sorts of behaviors that fuel their campaigns. At least the representative down south here had the courage to plea, which is a public establishment of guilt. It's definitely strategic on his part but also an ownership of a failure to follow the law and be fully accountable. That stands in sharp contrast to people who sandbag DWR employees and act like valuable members of the community.

Communities have always had a role alongside legal recourse in such incidents. I recognize there is really only so much that can be done. And sadly money, or a marketing budget, and the right connections do a lot to bypass public processes. But it seems like multiple people and figures in our community haven't dealt with the full weight of their hunting behavior. 

It's that sort of injustice that drives my focus and curiosity. I hope at some point the hunting community can rest knowing there is a bright line for lawful and ethical behavior. Most of it's not hard and the vast majority of us do it without much effort involved. But this thread has more than one example to highlight how even just a few people muddle that line in our sport. I'm not sure what the mechanism is to deny those individuals of the oxygen that their social reputation lives on but at some point the hunting community at large will have to come to terms with the situation. The internet and modern commercialization of our sport is making that conflict clear.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

These two trespassing cases appear to be the least of his current worries.









Utah hunting guide faces felony charge for Donald Trump Jr.’s big-game hunt


Prosecutors have indicated there was no evidence showing Trump Jr. would have known about alleged baiting that went on during the hunt.




www.sltrib.com


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> These two trespassing cases appear to be the least of his current worries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. It looks like what WLH isn't spending on new trail cams will be going to attorneys fees. 

From the article
"On Sept. 3, 2020, The Utah Investigative Journalism Project requested files on closed investigations against Wade Lemon Hunting. The DNR provided files on cases dating back to 2009 except for the case on the 2018 Trump Jr. hunt. DNR had decided to reopen that case and denied the records request, stating the release would interfere with the now “open” investigation."

Makes one wonder how many "investigations" there were?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I had heard whispers of this a year or so ago…. But the source wasn’t too credible. I didn’t know it involved DT jr... This is hilarious 😂 looks like the DWR is finally tired of covering for their buddies


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Everyone makes mistakes in life. I’m no exception there. But when your mistakes are your actual pattern of behavior, then eventually those chickens come home to roost. It always catches up to you, eventually.

WLH has a laundry list of offenses over the year either covered up or swept under the rug. The DWR has been an accomplice in this enabling behavior, either actively or passively, for far too long. I don’t expect them to mail every wildlife law breaker out there, but when an officer watches behavior like in the article, or they have video of an offense and choose not to pursue it because of who it is, that bothers me. It REALLY bothers me. Looks like the DWR finally got “pinched” in this one enough too to actually do something.

Finally.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Vanilla said:


> These two trespassing cases appear to be the least of his current worries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. 
This is dispicable behavior on a whole new level. These “alleged” actions by Lemon make us all look bad to the non hunter community. And then the DWR dude is a paying client smh. 
I hope the reopening of this case goes somewhere. 
I can’t believe people actually pay money to bag trophies like this. Tree a lion for 2 days for the client to fly in. ????


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> Everyone makes mistakes in life. I’m no exception there. But when your mistakes are your actual pattern of behavior, then eventually those chickens come home to roost. It always catches up to you, eventually.
> 
> WLH has a laundry list of offenses over the year either covered up or swept under the rug. The DWR has been an accomplice in this enabling behavior, either actively or passively, for far too long. I don’t expect them to mail every wildlife law breaker out there, but when an officer watches behavior like in the article, or they have video of an offense and choose not to pursue it because of who it is, that bothers me. It REALLY bothers me. Looks like the DWR finally got “pinched” in this one enough too to actually do something.
> 
> Finally.


I’ve watched many times the DWR pick and choose who they “watch”, target and go after. Mean while, they are aware of others doing illegal activities as well and they look the other way. It depends on who the officer is and who the suspect is… there’s one in juab county who’s famous for it… coincidence that the WLH crew is from that area? 🤔


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Seems weird to me that DJTJr killed a bear and a cougar on consecutive days but was completely unaware of the methods employed in securing said "trophies". The article also talks about Fowlks, who retired a month after the investigative records of cases against WLH dating back to 2009 were released to the Utah Investigative Journalism Project. All cases except the one involving DT Jr, which the DWR has "reopened".

This entire situation stinks.

My signature line seems particularly applicable here.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I know nobody wants to talk about "realpolitik" when the opportunity arises to get all lathered up with frothing moral outrage, but I'm going to anyway. 

As long as this issue remains about WLH, I think the chances are decent that we might see some semblance of justice served. It sounds like the DWR (kicking and screaming) has decided to finally do something, the AG, who as noted is a Trump supporter, has as well. I think some recent legislation seen suggests that some of our lawmakers are fed up also. However, if this case and others with WLH become about Trump, then a great many folks will reflexively head to their partisan camps and WLH will possibly get lost in the usual partisan screaming and maybe get away again. I can just about guarantee you that WLH and his defense will wrap themselves in a Trump flag and claim that eeevil Democrats, liburls and partisans are picking on them. 

I just pray it doesn't work.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Catherder said:


> I know nobody wants to talk about "realpolitik" when the opportunity arises to get all lathered up with frothing moral outrage, but I'm going to anyway.
> 
> As long as this issue remains about WLH, I think the chances are decent that we might see some semblance of justice served. It sounds like the DWR (kicking and screaming) has decided to finally do something, the AG, who as noted is a Trump supporter, has as well. I think some recent legislation seen suggests that some of our lawmakers are fed up also. However, if this case and others with WLH become about Trump, then a great many folks will reflexively head to their partisan camps and WLH will possibly get lost in the usual partisan screaming and maybe get away again. I can just about guarantee you that WLH and his defense will wrap themselves in a Trump flag and claim that eeevil Democrats, liburls and partisans are picking on them.
> 
> I just pray it doesn't work.


Well, I'm not surprised that my above post was edited as too political. I'll give it another try. Just read the article in the Trib. It talks about Fowlks, the former Division director, who has hunted with WLH and who "retired" after the records regarding investigation into WLH were released, I presume due to a FOIA request. The DT Jr case was initially investigated by our DWR in 2018, and closed. Fowlks was Director, and was also Section Chief of LE during earlier WLH investigations. Sounds like the DWR reopened the 2018 case in late 2020, then sent to our AG, Reyes. It was apparently referred to Troy Rawlings. Not sure why, but perhaps due to a perceived lack of objectivity on Reyes' part?

I just don't understand how canned hunts can be fulfilling. It appears that many WLH clients don't actually earn their kills. The example of a client flying in to kill a cougar treed the day before is nauseating.

We may see something happen, shining a light on these issues can be a good disinfectant.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The interesting part about this is the county attorney that filed these charges specifically states it’s not about DT Jr. 

He is not charged in the incident, and was even mentioned as a victim of WL and his fraud. So any attempt to make it about Trump will…never mind. Come to your own conclusion on that one.

This is all about Wade Lemon and the outfit he’s been allowed to run against the rules for way too long. It’s time to pay the piper, and if some folks in the DWR that covered for him in the past go down (or went down) with him because of their actions (and inactions) then so be it.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> The interesting part about this is the county attorney that filed these charges specifically states it’s not about DT Jr.
> 
> He is not charged in the incident, and was even mentioned as a victim of WL and his fraud.


Looks to me that he is wisely structuring a case to counter the tactic he expects to come, that it is about Trump. 



Vanilla said:


> This is all about Wade Lemon and the outfit he’s been allowed to run against the rules for way too long. It’s time to pay the piper, and if some folks in the DWR that covered for him in the past go down (or went down) with him because of their actions (and inactions) then so be it.


I foremost want to see WLH held accountable for all their illicit activities, but the more that comes out about these cases, the worse the DWR looks. And I didn't think it could get worse after the Nebo ram case. (wrong on that one)


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Catherder…I checked with the machine and there are no lies detected in your post.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Imagine all the stuff that's gone down since 2018.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> The interesting part about this is the county attorney that filed these charges specifically states it’s not about DT Jr.
> 
> He is not charged in the incident, and was even mentioned as a victim of WL and his fraud. So any attempt to make it about Trump will…never mind. Come to your own conclusion on that one.
> 
> This is all about Wade Lemon and the outfit he’s been allowed to run against the rules for way too long. It’s time to pay the piper, and if some folks in the DWR that covered for him in the past go down (or went down) with him because of their actions (and inactions) then so be it.


Well, this is indeed interesting. True, Rawlings filed the charges and went out of his way to say that Junior isn't being charged. But the case went through Reyes' office, and as AG, he certainly called the shots. Reyes campaigned for Trump, and pushed his lies about election fraud. He even traveled to Nevada to "Investigate" the election results on Utah taxpayer's dime. So, it wouldn't be the only time he's promoted lies on behalf of a Trump. Maybe one day we'll hear more about communications between the DWR, Reyes and Rawlings on the case.

The timeline here also seems squirrely. Junior was here that weekend for the launch of Hunter Nation, so between probably meeting with its cofounder, Don Peay, killing a bear on Friday the 18th and a bear on Saturday the 19th, he was a busy boy indeed. Thus, many questions arise:

1) How likely was it that he killed a bear in proximity to bait without being aware that baiting was happening? After all, WLM is being charged with baiting with grain, oil and pastries. How can one be a witness to such activity and not a codefendant? Weird, huh? Seems like a case of "knew or should have known".

2) What are the odds the hunts were conducted according to the rules of Fair Chase? Obviously not in the case of the bear, but what about the cougar? How long was the cougar treed before Junior arrived on scene? WLM has in the past kept one treed for two days, so they have no qualms about Fair Chase.

3) Did Junior have any knowledge regarding previous investigations into violations committed by WLH? Again, knew or should have known.

4) This wouldn't be the only time Junior received special treatment. He killed an endangered Argali sheep in Mongolia in 2019, the permit for which was issued rretroactively and after he left the region. Nice work if you can get it, right? It's good to be the president's son.









Donald Trump Jr. Went to Mongolia, Got Special Treatment From the Government and Killed an Endangered Sheep


During a summer 2019 hunting trip, Donald Trump Jr. killed a rare argali sheep. The Mongolian government issued him a hunting permit retroactively and he met with the country’s president.




www.propublica.org





5) Anybody notice DT Jr's photo, the description for which says he's standing on the edge of a cliff? Looks like the edge of a road to me, we have a lot of them here. Drive up Nine Mile, pop a baited bear, stop on the way down for a photo op, back to town for an evening political meeting, and bank $97,000. Sweet!!

Now, we know nothing will happen to Junior, Rawlings has already said so. Still, this episides reeks. Enjoy those "trophies", Donnie. Tell us again how hard you worked and how dangerous it was.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Lets keep the subject on Mr Lemon and not veer off onto the political side. 

The charges are against Mr Lemon and no one else at this time.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Nobody cares paddler! One day you’ll get over it.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> Lets keep the subject on Mr Lemon and not veer off onto the political side.
> 
> The charges are against Mr Lemon and no one else at this time.


Donald Trump Jr's bear hunt guided by Lemon is part of the story as Catherder and others related to.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> Nobody cares paddler! One day you’ll get over it.


Right. Nothing to see here, now move along.....


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

paddler said:


> Right. Nothing to see here, now move along.....


There is plenty to see here. Nobody cares about your political vendetta. So yes, move along.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> Donald Trump Jr's bear hunt guided by Lemon is part of the story as Catherder and others related to.


He's part of the story but no charges have been filed against him. Right now it is all on the outfitter.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Critter said:


> He's part of the story but no charges have been filed against him. Right now it is all on the outfitter.


Sure, it's all on the outfitter. According at least in part to our AG, who we all know is the epitome of objectivity, truthfulness and honesty. No politics at all. Nope, none.

DT Jr was present during the commission of criminal acts and shot a baited bear. If the bear hadn't been killed, no crime would have been committed. He's a major part of the story. What did he know and when did he know it? We'll never know, but we should.

The DWR is a large part of the story, too. They say they investigated and closed the case in 2018, while Fowlks was the Director. They turned over the records of all prior investigations into WLH when requested by the Journalist Project except this one. Why? Fowlks retired within a month of the records release. Why? Charges weren't filed until just before the SOL expired. Why did it take so long?

If one of us had been the client, would the DWR have handled it differently? How about Reyes? He has very close ties to DJT, and a record of promulgating lies on his behalf. This is some crazy fecal material.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Him being charged will only be made better by successful prosecution. If the charges are legit than I hope he finally feels the full weight of his actions.

And if that leads to a house cleaning for DWR than all the better. 

Maybe this will to more transparency. Maybe not?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

The more I think about this, I doubt anything will come of it. There’s a lot of loopholes and gray area to be played in this type of scenario for charges to be dropped and dismissed. I hope they finally do nail him, but the odds aren’t likely.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

paddler said:


> Sure, it's all on the outfitter. According at least in part to our AG, who we all know is the epitome of objectivity, truthfulness and honesty. No politics at all. Nope, none.


The AG didn’t file the charges here. He conflicted the case to another prosecutor, Troy Rawlings who is the Davis County attorney.

So one of two options exist here: 1- Your political warpath that you always embark on here has made you so ridiculously biased that you have simply become illogical; or 2- You don’t know how to read. I’m going to answer that “yes.”

Like I said, nobody cares about your ax to grind. Get over yourself. It would have been the wise thing to move along like you said and have us all just assume you were ignorant instead of continuing to comment and removing all doubt. Go away.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I am well aware of the sequence of events and detailed them in previous posts. Don't know much about Rawlings, except he shouldn't be giving medical advice. And, as I also said, it would be nice to get access to all communications between the DWR, Reyes and Rawlings. Looks like the DWR did a crappy job on its initial investigation, maybe the Director stepped in to quash it? And we really don't know if the AG did or didn't provide input to Rawlings regarding how the case should be handled. Given Reyes' history, would anybody be surprised? So, another V straw man argument goes down in flames. I've covered all this previously, perhaps it's your reading comprehension that's inadequate.

So, here's the difference between you and I. I believe that laws should apply equally to all, regardless of political party or position, or who their daddy is, etc. You, and some others, seem anxious to avoid asking the obvious but tough questions in this case. Can't imagine why.


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## 2pntkiller (10 mo ago)

How bout that hockey game


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

paddler said:


> So, here's the difference between you and I. I believe that laws should apply equally to all, regardless of political party or position, or who their daddy is, etc. You, and some others, seem anxious to avoid asking the obvious but tough questions in this case. Can't imagine why.


You have said some really stupid things over the years, but this is by far the stupidest. Keep chasing your tail.

Me thinks you and Wade Lemon must be pals with the way you’re deflecting here. You both seem to be as honest as the other.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Are puddler69’s posts being deleted? It seems like I’m missing some key posts here… 😂


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Cleaning Lazy GIF - Cleaning Lazy Sweep - Discover & Share GIFs


Click to view the GIF




tenor.com





Hey, Utah made the front page of MSN. And DJT Jr is in the headline. Guess that makes him part of the story.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

puddler said:


> If the bear hadn't been killed, no crime would have been committed.


Very incorrect. At least 3 laws were violated prior to the trigger even being pulled. All of which were by WLH


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Interesting that puddler says Rawlings shouldn’t give medical advice, but the doc feels so comfortable (being wrong) in the criminal space. Maybe he’s got more experience on the other side of that equation than we all realize?

He does appear to be buddies with WL with how hard he’s trying to deflect the attention off him. As they say, birds of a feather?


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

MooseMeat said:


> Very incorrect. At least 3 laws were violated prior to the trigger even being pulled. Both of which were by WLH
> View attachment 152107


Seems like these rules presume you will be hunting over the bait station. What if you have no intention of hunting? What if your only objective is photography? What if you never have a weapon in possession when you are in the vicinity? I have no interest in killing a bear, but it might be cool to get some nice photos. Would it be illegal for me to take some Krispy Kremes up?

It strains credulity to say Donnie knew absolutely nothing about the baiting. Or that he knew nothing about WLH's checkered past. Or that he would let a rule or two stop him from collecting another "trophy", given his history in Mongolia. Or that the DWR, Reyes and Rawlings haven't allowed politics to influence their actions. Keep sweeping.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Front page of the Trib this morning. Rawlings is going to need a bigger broom.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

puddler69 said:


> Seems like these rules presume you will be hunting over the bait station. What if you have no intention of hunting? What if your only objective is photography? What if you never have a weapon in possession when you are in the vicinity? I have no interest in killing a bear, but it might be cool to get some nice photos. Would it be illegal for me to take some Krispy Kremes up?
> 
> It strains credulity to say Donnie knew absolutely nothing about the baiting. Or that he knew nothing about WLH's checkered past. Or that he would let a rule or two stop him from collecting another "trophy", given his history in Mongolia. Or that the DWR, Reyes and Rawlings haven't allowed politics to influence their actions. Keep sweeping.


We aren’t talking about you wanting pictures. We are talking about what took place. Stay on topic. What they have evidence of, is illegal.

As much as you hate it, DT jr is only guilty of the crime if he KNOWINGLY killed that bear under the circumstances that had already taken place to the point where the bear was in a tree. Without evidence of that (which there isn’t), he isn’t guilty of any wrong doing. 

As for you placing bait in the forest to get “pictures”, I’d say at the very least it is considered littering, which is illegal.


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

Political beliefs aside, it's very possible to bait a bear, pull the bait before the hunter arrives and then take him there. Bear comes in looking for bait pile, guy pulls the trigger and WLH pads the ego by saying wow congrats on getting lucky with this. Right place right time I guess. The hunter could have no idea that it was baited to the area illegally. 
Could he be complicit in the activities? Sure he could be. However, what we know for sure is that WLH illegally baited the bear.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Let's just say I find DT Jr's plausible deniability implausible. I'll leave it at that.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

paddler said:


> Let's just say I find DT Jr's plausible deniability implausible. I'll leave it at that.


It could be that DT Jr. is a key witness and there is an agreement not to prosecute him.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

paddler said:


> I'll leave it at that.


I doubt you will. But it would sure be nice if you did!


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## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

"As for you placing bait in the forest to get “pictures”, I’d say at the very least it is considered littering, which is illegal."

As moose mentioned it is illegal. Im pretty sure that a COR is required to bait a bear. And im not 100$ positive but i think your tag # is included on the COR.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

2pntkiller said:


> How bout that hockey game


Hockey???? What about the Cornhole Championships taking place?


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## 2pntkiller (10 mo ago)

taxidermist said:


> Hockey???? What about the Cornhole Championships taking place?


Have you watched the cornhole championships!
Cheyenne Renner is freaking killer!!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

So, I'm up fishing, but a buddy texted me and said that Junior made at 6:00 news. Too funny.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

New charges today. New incident 

That's 2 felonies and 2 misdemeanor just this year. All seperate incidents


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

hossblur said:


> That's 2 felonies and 2 misdemeanor just this year. All seperate incidents


Old Wade's really ringing them up now. Amazing what happens when someone new is in charge of the "investigations".  




paddler said:


> So, I'm not fishing, but a buddy texted me and said that Junior made at 6:00 news. Too funny.


Yipee, I can see the money coming in now to the WLH legal defense fund from misinformed conservatives who think this nice man is caught up in a Trump hatchet job.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

paddler said:


> So, I'm not fishing, but a buddy texted me and said that Junior made at 6:00 news. Too funny.


I told you!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> I told you!


Sorry, that was a voice to text error. It should have said, "I'm up fishing...", as I was actually fishing, for fish!

Also, I couldn't ignore the fact that Donnie made KSL TV news. Hilarious.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

All this truly is a huge stain on the legacy of Mike Fowlks as director of the DWR. That may not be “fair” as I don’t know all the details on how and why, but the fact that all this is popping up now and only being prosecuted after he retired has a very foul smell to it.

We absolutely know the DWR has covered for Wade in the past. I know this from personally talking to decision makers in previous incidents. How much the agency covered up is starting to look really, really bad now.

The chickens always come home to roost, folks. Always.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

*"The chickens always come home to roost, folks. Always."*

Yup, and there isn't a Rooster in the flock to protect it now.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

It isn't necessary to take your hounds into an illegal bait site to start a bear race. If the bait is strategically placed a houndsman can circle it on the road and pick up the bear coming or going by either the dogs winding it or finding its tracks on the road and starting the race from there. The fact that WCL had drug the road the night before tells me this is the method he was using, plausible deniability should law enforcement ever discover and stake out the illegal bait site. Therefore, I think it is highly unlikely DTjr was aware they were running off baits. Just saying...


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

I’m just glad another predator on our deer herds is dead.
I wish they would have killed two Bears.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> All this truly is a huge stain on the legacy of Mike Fowlks as director of the DWR. That may not be “fair” as I don’t know all the details on how and why, but the fact that all this is popping up now and only being prosecuted after he retired has a very foul smell to it.
> 
> We absolutely know the DWR has covered for Wade in the past. I know this from personally talking to decision makers in previous incidents. How much the agency covered up is starting to look really, really bad now.
> 
> The chickens always come home to roost, folks. Always.



I think that Sheehan was director for Nebo Ram, so it is likely that "culpability" can be shared. I do hope that those in authority take a look at it though when the dust settles, especially in light of recent events.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> The chickens always come home to roost, folks. Always.


I hope you're right, but I'll believe it when I see it.


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

Trying to follow this story. Do I understand it correctly that they had a license for a hound hunt but set up a bait site to aid in finding bears to run off from? I know that houndsman are not allowed to hunt from a bait site in Utah (although allowed in some other states) but the fault finding is that they ONLY had a hound hunt license and ran off an illegal bait pile? The spring bear is a hound hunt. The summer is a bait hunt. I believe that the fall hunt gives hunters an option to bait or run hounds. Opening day is typically, the weekend prior to Memorial day weekend. If they were on the 18th of May, they were likely right at the ending 2 weeks of the hound hunt that overlaps the summer bait hunt by one week. They were likely a few days early for the bait hunt. 
My quiestion would be that if they had a license but cheated the system a bit on thier method of killing a bear, how does that constitute a Felonly? If they went out and killed a bear with no license at all, I can see them being more harsh but running off from a bait doesn't seem like it has Felony written on it. 
I'm not backing WLH by any means. I don't know him at all. It just seems that I am missing something.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

2:22 said:


> Trying to follow this story. Do I understand it correctly that they had a license for a hound hunt but set up a bait site to aid in finding bears to run off from? I know that houndsman are not allowed to hunt from a bait site in Utah (although allowed in some other states) but the fault finding is that they ONLY had a hound hunt license and ran off an illegal bait pile? The spring bear is a hound hunt. The summer is a bait hunt. I believe that the fall hunt gives hunters an option to bait or run hounds. Opening day is typically, the weekend prior to Memorial day weekend. If they were on the 18th of May, they were likely right at the ending 2 weeks of the hound hunt that overlaps the summer bait hunt by one week. They were likely a few days early for the bait hunt.
> My quiestion would be that if they had a license but cheated the system a bit on thier method of killing a bear, how does that constitute a Felonly? If they went out and killed a bear with no license at all, I can see them being more harsh but running off from a bait doesn't seem like it has Felony written on it.
> I'm not backing WLH by any means. I don't know him at all. It just seems that I am missing something.


Since I fortunately and unfortunately, have a history with this very thing, I’ll help clear it up. First, I believe in 2018 you could still do a spring bear hunt and get a bait registered legally with a COR and hunt over it with archery equipment. OR you could use hounds and harvest one that way. When you applied, you picked between archery (bait) or ALW, but the ALW tag did not allow you to hunt over bait. You could however, go change your ALW tag to an archery (bait) tag if you decided to after your drew a permit, for $10 at the division office. I think 2019 is when they did away with the spring baits and went just to summer and fall bait hunts. Up until then, the hound/bait seasons were the same dates. Summer bait hunts were still in the trial period on a few select units at the time.

as far as the felony goes, it doesn’t matter if they used bait, the wrong weapon, etc. they go off the value of the animal that was illegally harvested. Bears for instance are valued at $500 in the state of Utah. from a cub to a state record boar, doesn’t matter, they are all the same price. That price makes it a felony status offense. Since they can’t find any evidence to prove DT jr KNOWINGLY killed that bear using illegal methods, they go after the guide who did. It just so happens to be Wade this time. He KNOWINGLY used methods that are illegal to hunt bears with.

I’m sure Wade has a great lawyer and still has friends inside the DWR that will take care of him. There’s a lot of loopholes to play. and even more evidence that the state needs to come up with to get a felony conviction. Maybe they already have it, but I doubt it. Worst case scenario, he’ll plead it down to a class B misdemeanor, pay some fines, maybe a little community service and can’t hunt for himself for the next 5 years. He won’t see the inside of a prison ever for Illegally killing a bear. Just like the judge told me “im not going to take up space in an already over crowded jail to house someone who doesn’t have any priors and isn’t a danger to themselves or the public.” Also don’t forget to take into consideration that he’s “older”… that will help his case too. And last but not least, remember ALL that conservation money his outfit has brought into utah. That doesn’t hurt his case.

All that I see out of this in the future is it’ll go from WLH to KLH. That’s about it for now. But more could come out in the future and maybe they’ll get them both. That wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen for utah and it’s hunters.


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## Old Cowboy (Oct 19, 2021)

That is a pretty good analysis. I also don't see him doing any jail time even if they prove everything. I don't think the son is completely clean of any wrong doing either. I don't think any charges were ever filed but was it not him and a buddy that were busted on antelope island for trying to herd a trophy buck back to a legal hunting area? I have heard that the Lemons are not welcome on the island.


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## TOgden (Sep 10, 2007)

If my memory serves me right, When DTjr came for the hunt there was a photo op of him and the founder of the SFW that was on TV. 
Birds of a feather.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

TOgden said:


> If my memory serves me right, When DTjr came for the hunt there was a photo op of him and the founder of the SFW that was on TV.
> Birds of a feather.


Yep, Junior was here to help launch "Hunter Nation", cofounded by Don Peay. Peay was also Daddy's Utah campaign manager. So yeah, birds of a feather.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

One thing is for certain. Their all crooked as a dogs hind leg.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

MooseMeat said:


> Since I fortunately and unfortunately, have a history with this very thing, I’ll help clear it up. First, I believe in 2018 you could still do a spring bear hunt and get a bait registered legally with a COR and hunt over it with archery equipment. OR you could use hounds and harvest one that way. When you applied, you picked between archery (bait) or ALW, but the ALW tag did not allow you to hunt over bait. You could however, go change your ALW tag to an archery (bait) tag if you decided to after your drew a permit, for $10 at the division office. I think 2019 is when they did away with the spring baits and went just to summer and fall bait hunts. Up until then, the hound/bait seasons were the same dates. Summer bait hunts were still in the trial period on a few select units at the time.
> 
> as far as the felony goes, it doesn’t matter if they used bait, the wrong weapon, etc. they go off the value of the animal that was illegally harvested. Bears for instance are valued at $500 in the state of Utah. from a cub to a state record boar, doesn’t matter, they are all the same price. That price makes it a felony status offense. Since they can’t find any evidence to prove DT jr KNOWINGLY killed that bear using illegal methods, they go after the guide who did. It just so happens to be Wade this time. He KNOWINGLY used methods that are illegal to hunt bears with.
> 
> ...


He has prior(s).

Not his first illegal bear


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....If a licensed Guide/Outfitter is convicted of a Wildlife crime, they should be stripped of their license. I've seen Contractors loose their license from DOPL for less aggreges activity than what Lemmon pulled.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

hossblur said:


> He has prior(s).
> 
> Not his first illegal bear


I didn’t know that. I know some of his “guides” have prior convictions. I didn’t know Wade himself did.

either way, they won’t put him in jail for an illegal bear kill. I stand by my comment about him still having friends in the division. There’s been a lot of corruption within that department over the years. Some of which they would lock up the average guy for and never let them out. But when their employees are involved, they just pretend like it didn’t happen and move on.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Yes, Wade himself has a prior conviction from the 90s.

Yes, you are correct that someone is not going to jail for an illegal bear kill in Utah. We don’t put away child molesters or armed robbers anymore in Utah in many cases. I honestly believe that the general public would be shocked how light on crime the state of Utah has become. Herbert’s gift that keeps on giving.


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## Old Cowboy (Oct 19, 2021)

Apparently there is yet another one . A canned cougar hunt in Millard county. Someone is spilling the beans.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

A little bird told me there is much more in the shadows that has yet to be in the spotlight…

more to come.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

MooseMeat said:


> A little bird told me there is much more in the shadows that has yet to be in the spotlight…
> 
> more to come.


Now you’re sounding like Hoss! Ha!

Yes, there will be more to come. When someone runs rogue like his outfit I has for this long, the list of offenses is probably nearly unending.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Vanilla said:


> Now you’re sounding like Hoss! Ha!
> 
> Yes, there will be more to come. When someone runs rogue like his outfit I has for this long, the list of offenses is probably nearly unending.


Haha I can drop names to my sources. But I don’t want to burn my bridges on juicy information. Don’t forget who leaked the information on #MuleyFelon. Hoss just throws out guesses and speculation without evidence to back up what he says. I have court documents and everything to back up my intel. 😎 I have many friends in low places.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

There are one or two "large" items I've heard rumblings on that I am hoping to see added to the pile of charges.


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## 2:22 (Jan 31, 2013)

The news kept talking about the fact that he drug a pipe or something down the dirt road. I was presuming that meant to wipe out any tracks that may have been previously there. I get the fact that he ran dogs off from bait but if he had a hound permit, why is it worthy of mention that he ran a drag on the road?


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

2:22 said:


> The news kept talking about the fact that he drug a pipe or something down the dirt road. I was presuming that meant to wipe out any tracks that may have been previously there. I get the fact that he ran dogs off from bait but if he had a hound permit, why is it worthy of mention that he ran a drag on the road?


Because it’s the news and they love to focus on irrelevant facts


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

taxidermist said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again....If a licensed Guide/Outfitter is convicted of a Wildlife crime, they should be stripped of their license. I've seen Contractors loose their license from DOPL for less aggreges activity than what Lemmon pulled.


I 100% agree.

Hunting is a privilege. So is guiding. Abusing that privilege should have consequences that include the loss of that privilege. Wade has openly gotten away with things that most members on this forum never would. It's about time that the bill comes due.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Anybody have an ear to bend in the legislature to get the ball rolling on prohibiting individuals with wildlife related priors from being able to guide & run outfitters in Utah? Making money off of public resources is a privilege and following the law should be a minimum requirement.


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