# Big signs!



## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

I say to save on some frustrations the wma areas post BIG florescent signs at every access point two days prior to the opener posting the legal shooting time for the opener. what do you all think? I'm so sick of people shooting 1/2 hour early every opener.we had ducks all over use the 1/2 hour people where blasting away. we waited until 7:30 while the meat line was banging away! pisses me off. :!:


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

just a cheap banner would work at the entrances, I'd even go have one made. I don't understand why they truly don't simplify the proclamation for even the most simplest of minds. It should be absolutely clear cut so there is zero chance of any interpretation about it. Guess they like the revenue of writing more tickets. This only harms the waterfowl that we love to hunt so much. Lots of guys blasting when it's too dark to I.D. a bird


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I guess the real question is whether the problem is ignorance or apathy?


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

Huge29 said:


> I guess the real question is whether the problem is ignorance or apathy?


I bet if you posted on that sign anyone caught shooting before this time will pay a 1000.00 fine for poaching! because in my eye that is what it is. your shooting an animal out of season .


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Huge29 said:


> I guess the real question is whether the problem is ignorance or apathy?


I think ignorance was probably a factor for a few people this opener, but i'd bet it's generally apathy.

I also think that there are very few people on any opener who are willing to be the first to break the law by firing early. The problem is that as soon as the first shots fly, birds start leaving and everyone freaks out because they know that their best shot opportunities will be gone in the next few minutes. That, and the fact that so many other people are doing it, probably prompts more early shooting than anything.

I don't think we need big signs, I think we need big fines.

The DWR could post a simple notice in the proclamation that goes something like this:

"Opening day of waterfowl season attracts enormous crowds to our state waterfowl management areas each year. With crowded situations comes an increased risk for hunting accidents, especially during times of lower visibility. We restrict shooting times on opening morning to ensure the safety of all of our hunters. Since those shooting before opening hours are posing a direct threat to the safety of other hunters, those found in violation of shooting hours will be fined (large amount here). In addition, birds taken before legal shooting hours are birds poached out of season, which is a federal offense punishable by (penalty here). The DWR will have officers on all WMA's patrolling by boat and on foot to ensure that every waterfowl hunter is in compliance. We will not tolerate excuses of any kind."

I'm sure they could write it better than me, but if the DWR went along with that idea, then actually followed through on it, I think it would make a difference.

If the fine were large enough, you probably wouldn't have anyone shooting until five minutes after shooting time, just to be sure. 

Sadly, I think that nothing short of the threat of some serious penalties will stop early shooting.


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## nk1nk (Nov 15, 2011)

Clarq said:


> I think ignorance was probably a factor for a few people this opener, but i'd bet it's generally apathy.
> 
> I also think that there are very few people on any opener who are willing to be the first to break the law by firing early. The problem is that as soon as the first shots fly, birds start leaving and everyone freaks out because they know that their best shot opportunities will be gone in the next few minutes. That, and the fact that so many other people are doing it, probably prompts more early shooting than anything.
> 
> ...


This is all great in theory but the dwr does not have the resources i.e. (officer's) to handle the situation. At Farmington the last three years there has only been biologists at the east parking lot. It's the wild west out there with only one sheriff in town so to speak. It's like speeding on the highway, most people do it very few are caught. And by the way as there may be a lot of do gooders that post here and waited until 7 30 (eye roll) I certainly did not see that where I was at and by the shear sound of gunfire it couldn't have been many. I held out until 7 10 and had geese fly over and I unloaded. You can lump me in with the scumbags that's fine. Most years it's only 5 maybe 10 minute's early, this year was a direct result of a confusing proclamation.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

This is why I want a sign? just a plane old sign saying shooting time starts at x:xx time on opening morning, anyone driving through the gate then knows just like everyone else. No more confusion.-O,-


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

nk1nk said:


> This is all great in theory but the dwr does not have the resources i.e. (officer's) to handle the situation. At Farmington the last three years there has only been biologists at the east parking lot. It's the wild west out there with only one sheriff in town so to speak. It's like speeding on the highway, most people do it very few are caught. And by the way as there may be a lot of do gooders that post here and waited until 7 30 (eye roll) I certainly did not see that where I was at and by the shear sound of gunfire it couldn't have been many. I held out until 7 10 and had geese fly over and I unloaded. You can lump me in with the scumbags that's fine. Most years it's only 5 maybe 10 minute's early, this year was a direct result of a confusing proclamation.


I see exactly what you're saying. I don't know how many officers the DWR has (for some reason 30 comes to mind?), but it seems like they could find enough to have at least a couple on the major WMA's. That alone still can't accomplish much.

That's why I think a really big fine would make a difference. So, this opener, a flock of geese convinced you to open up early.

In this situation the risk was: An incredibly small chance of getting a ticket amounting to what? $50-$150? I really don't know, as I have never seen one given.

The reward? A potential goose bagged and a good time shooting.

So, due to the tiny odds of being caught, the reward outweighed the risk. It's that way for all who choose to shoot early.

But if the risk were a ticket of $1000, would that have changed your mind?

How high would the dollar amount on an early shooting ticket have to be to convince everyone that even though the odds of getting ticketed are small, the risk is great enough to outweigh the reward? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe nobody does.

But, it's all a matter of risk vs. reward. Until the risk of incurring a penalty for shooting early is severe, people will keep doing it. It's just that simple.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

You should really just pass on the opener... It will save you from so much frustration. It's one day let it go. 106 days are way better than the first. A bunch of knuckle heads in the marsh at once is truly a recipe for disaster. Iam convinced no matter what you do you can not get people to follow shooting times... Especially on opening morning.. To many people not near the amount of law enforcement . It will save you the frustration and agony of a poor time if you just skip it...


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I enjoy the chaos!!!!!!!!! If ya work a little harder you can get away from people. It's always fun hearing WWIII every year


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

utahgolf said:


> I enjoy the chaos!!!!!!!!! If ya work a little harder you can get away from people. It's always fun hearing WWIII every year


Indeed. Despite the nonsense, I still love to get out there and be a part of it all. Our old strategy used to be to hike a few miles to some marginal habitat, which allowed us to get away from people and still shoot a few shells. Some years, the ducks would flock to the less-desirable areas and surprise us with some good shooting. With my dad's limited mobility in recent years, it is getting tougher to get away from people.


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## rolltide89 (Sep 29, 2013)

Wait but you are aloud to shoot 30 minutes prior to sunrise


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

rolltide89 said:


> Wait but you are aloud to shoot 30 minutes prior to sunrise


No on opening morning for a bunch of the countys, its sunrise. See this is the problem, nobody see's the little * on the proclomations shooting hours:x


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

The best move the DWR ever made was eliminating the 8:00 start time on the pheasant hunt. No more chasing reports of early shooting. Everyone gets to have a good time when they can see. Easy peasy. 

Idaho starts their openers at noon for this very reason. Want to moan and complain about opening day? Fine, you can't hunt until noon when we know you all can see. Show up on day two shooting at first light and nobody will bawl you out.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Personally I could care less about early shooting in any day, or any of the other crap most always whine about others doing. I just don't sweat the small sh*t anymore, it does not garner you a thing but ruin your hunt. I prefer to just do my own thing and have a good time. 

And not clearly printing the shooting time in the proc as well as these special shooting times for certain days is just dumb as owl sh*t!!


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## wrinkleydog (Jun 6, 2011)

I've learned to wait 1 day. Skip Saturday and start on Sunday. It's amazing how many less people there are. Sure there are still some idiots wandering around, but far, far, less of them. As long as you're willing to walk a mile or so from the parking areas you can easily find some space to yourself.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Yep, bring back the Noon start time for opening day. This would eliminate a lot of the stupidity and chaos. I don't remember anyone camping in their boats, claiming spots the day before, or camping on the islands at FB. Open the season at Noon and I don't think a lot of these guys will be in such a big a$$ hurry to get out there. As far as shooting early, well everyone would know it starts at Noon, and if they did it would be easier for the fish cops to see who is doing it and write more tickets.


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## DirtyServant (May 5, 2013)

Shooting hours were at 7 not 7:30


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2013)

The Utah Waterfowl Guidebook says 30 min before official sunrise, shooting time for Saturday morning was 7:00 am sharp. For some reason the guid book was change this year.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

DirtyServant said:


> Shooting hours were at 7 not 7:30


Not in Box Elder, Cache, Davis, Salt Lake and Weber Counties. 7:30 Start time.
Read page 26 in the proclamation.


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## Duckhunter4life (Oct 9, 2013)

I was one that misunderstood the proc and I did get a citation it is $600 I have never shot early this is the first time and I got nailed yes I was in the wrong by not reading every word in the proc but usually it is cut and dry this year it is bull its like an infomercial all the good stuff at the top in big bold print and the oh **** didn't see that in fine print at the bottom I have been waterfowling Utah for 15 years and have never broke the law with hunting and now because of a crap decision on putting that in the what's new this year and printing it the way they did it has kinda ruined my out look on the conservation effort completely. 

Angry


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## HunterGeek (Sep 13, 2007)

Clarq said:


> The DWR could post a simple notice in the proclamation that goes something like this:
> 
> "Opening day of waterfowl season attracts enormous crowds to our state waterfowl management areas each year. With crowded situations comes an increased risk for hunting accidents, especially..."
> 
> I'm sure they could write it better than me...


This, of course, assumes that most people actually read the guidebooks, which is a pretty big assumption.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Duckhunter4life said:


> I was one that misunderstood the proc and I did get a citation it is $600 I have never shot early this is the first time and I got nailed yes I was in the wrong by not reading every word in the proc but usually it is cut and dry this year it is bull its like an infomercial all the good stuff at the top in big bold print and the oh **** didn't see that in fine print at the bottom I have been waterfowling Utah for 15 years and have never broke the law with hunting and now because of a crap decision on putting that in the what's new this year and printing it the way they did it has kinda ruined my out look on the conservation effort completely.
> 
> Angry


$600 :shock:

Had you killed any birds by the time they wrote you up? That might have given them another reason to charge some more.

Sorry to hear you got screwed for a misunderstanding. That's crazy.


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## Duckhunter4life (Oct 9, 2013)

No Clara they charge it as attempting to take protected wildlife before legal hours.


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## Duckhunter4life (Oct 9, 2013)

Clarq*


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Ok, thanks for letting me know.


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## Drake1301 (Oct 23, 2012)

Let's face it, a big signs at access points on the opener, a stern warning of a fine, or a notice of officers in the field would not stop some people from breaking the law. Shooting early on the opener is an age old problem. I have hunted ducks in FB for 35 years and every year people have started early. Historically is has been roughly 10 mins early. I will admit I have taken a couple early shots in my younger years, but only by 3-5 mins. The ONLY way to fix the problem is to start the opener 30 minutes before sunrise, just like every day of the season. 
Were I was located in FB the idiots started 35 mins early!! I was particularly upset this year because I had my 11 year old son with me who is still learning. He was so desperate to start shooting with the rest of the crowd due to all the ducks that were flying by in range. As mad as I was at all those shooting around us (including another father with his young son) I took the opportunity to teach my son that what those who were shooting early were in fact POACHING!! The season was not open at 6:55, 7:00, or 7:15 it was STILL CLOSED until 7:30am. They were either "taking protected game" or "attempting to take protected game" into their possession, both of which are consider poaching and very much against the law. I was very disappointed in my fellow waterfowlers that made a pour choice!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Just post a time in the proc. no asterisk or anything. problem solved.
This youtube clip is what we had going on on the opener this year


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Duckhunter4life said:


> I was one that misunderstood the proc and I did get a citation it is $600 I have never shot early this is the first time and I got nailed yes I was in the wrong by not reading every word in the proc but usually it is cut and dry this year it is bull its like an infomercial all the good stuff at the top in big bold print and the oh **** didn't see that in fine print at the bottom I have been waterfowling Utah for 15 years and have never broke the law with hunting and now because of a crap decision on putting that in the what's new this year and printing it the way they did it has kinda ruined my out look on the conservation effort completely.
> 
> Angry


I am very glad to hear the officers are doing their jobs. That's great now you will remember to read the book. I hope a lot more people got this same ticket. 
I myself didn't find it confusing at all but maybe that's because I read the books.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Every year prior they have also had a asterisk next to the opening day times. So to let people outside of weber,davis,box elder,cache and salt lake counties that their shooting started at 7:00. 
So if you have ever read a proc you would know that these counties have different times. It's funny that people are blaming the DNR and not accepting their ignorance. 

I guess stupid is stupid does!


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## Duckhunter4life (Oct 9, 2013)

I know there is always been an asterisk next to opening day its been there for years but it is never pertained to anybody in Salt lake County Davis County Weber County it is always pertained to people outside of those units and with it being there in the years past it would have never caused anybody to shoot early if anything it would have caused them to shoot late. I am NOT the only one that received the citation for the confusion I know of many others that receive citations and also had all there hunting equipment taken away. I don't understand why they're so many people supporting this change to the proclamation. It is a stupid change in very sloppy on the part of its editor. So I guess in a short end note the asterisk would have never ruined somebody's lively hood and taking food out of their families mouth.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

*Who's really to blame?*

Ignorance of the law is not a legal defense for breaking the law. The Guidebooks are printed with ALL the information you need to know before going afield. You, and only you, are the responsible person for being knowledgeable about what's in those Guidebooks. Blaming the person who wrote the Guidebook or the person enforcing the law is indicative of what's wrong with our society as a whole. "It's somebody else's fault; not mine." Man up and take responsibility for your own actions.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I hate to say it. But it does not matter what they do it not going to stop.Every one knows that the dwr does not have enough guys to be out there to catch them. Plus the dwr guys are at home or having breakfast why all that going on. Plus people will say my watch says this time and so on. I wish there was a way we could stop it but there not sad to say.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok every one is saying it in the guide book. I read that sucker all the time and I did not see the * or read anything on that. All i seen and read was shooting time is 30 before sun raise. So to me that means opening day was post to open at 7 not 730. So I can see where people was miss understanding it. Just put the fn time we can start shooting and end at.


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## manzquad (Feb 10, 2010)

Dustin I highlitghed it for you and everyone else that thought is was supposed to start @ 7:00 along the Wasatch front. Ignorance to the law is no excuse...


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## manzquad (Feb 10, 2010)

If you only read the first sentence then sure, you deserve a ticket. Ever watch The Amazing Race???? Read the whole clue or you will be screwed out of a million bucks.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

manzquad said:


> Dustin I highlitghed it for you and everyone else that thought is was supposed to start @ 7:00 along the Wasatch front. Ignorance to the law is no excuse...


i see that now. after reading it on the computer today. but i did not see that little * next to the sunrise. I still think it bs. just put the fn time we can start shooting. it been that way for 25 years that I can remember.


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