# Point changes announced



## guner (Sep 25, 2007)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42924283&ni...hange-in-preference-points-for-2017-deer-hunt


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## OriginalOscar (Sep 5, 2016)

guner said:


> http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42924283&ni...hange-in-preference-points-for-2017-deer-hunt


Is this somehow different than what was spelled out in the hunting regulations under "changes" section?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Sounds good to me. I don't think that your odds of drawing the second choice were that good anyway.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

That comment section 


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

It will be interesting to see if 1st choice units will be easier or harder to get now. I'm assuming some units will be more difficult than others.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

should be an interesting few years as people decide how to play their points and figure out a new way to get ahead. might be a lot of left over tags this season.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

APD said:


> should be an interesting few years as people decide how to play their points and figure out a new way to get ahead. might be a lot of left over tags this season.


No. My prediction is we continue with a massive winter kill. The only people getting tags this coming year are the ones using the loophole, as of course, they have the most points right now. It will clear out most of the max point holders then the next year things should even out as those that don't get a tag this year have more points going into the following years draw (as it should be).

It seems like we are on a trajectory that is going to minimally, result in 50% less tags than last year. One couldnt plan a worse winter for our wildlife as we have currently.

-DallanC


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

APD said:


> should be an interesting few years as people decide how to play their points and figure out a new way to get ahead. might be a lot of left over tags this season.


Less than 10% may have been using the loophole.

Some may have just been putting archery and ML as a second choice.

If there are leftovers, then it would be a max of 10% of the tags


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

DallanC said:


> No. My prediction is we continue with a massive winter kill. The only people getting tags this coming year are the ones using the loophole, as of course, they have the most points right now. It will clear out most of the max point holders then the next year things should even out as those that don't get a tag this year have more points going into the following years draw (as it should be).
> 
> It seems like we are on a trajectory that is going to minimally, result in 50% less tags than last year. One couldnt plan a worse winter for our wildlife as we have currently.
> 
> -DallanC


Well that just depressed the hell out of me. I'll think I'll head home from work early and hit the sauce now....

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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

am i wrong or does this change not essentially make the deer draw work almost exactly like the elk draw?


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

My family chooses to hunt in a unit that is not too popular. This should work out great for us since I'm certain some years where somebody in our party did not drawn were because another hunter put it as a back up and had more points than us.



MuscleWhitefish said:


> That comment section


It's surprising to me how many people have no clue the difference between LE and GS.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

I've hunted a crappy area in the Box Elder unit just to spend time with my dad. Does this mean when I draw for it this year (my whole family draws every year) I'll lose my points? 5 points to shoot at spikes?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you draw your first choice, second choice, third choice, forth choice, or fifth choice you loose all your general season deer points.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

DallanC said:


> No. My prediction is we continue with a massive winter kill. The only people getting tags this coming year are the ones using the loophole, as of course, they have the most points right now. It will clear out most of the max point holders then the next year things should even out as those that don't get a tag this year have more points going into the following years draw (as it should be).
> 
> It seems like we are on a trajectory that is going to minimally, result in 50% less tags than last year. One couldnt plan a worse winter for our wildlife as we have currently.
> 
> -DallanC


Nope, NOT even close.....

There are a few units that will have winter kill problems, mostly Northern units.

But most of the state is still OK.
Haven't had any long stretch's of really cold weather.
South slopes in Central/ S central Utah burning off to dirt.
I've looked at several hundred deer this week, they look AMAZINGLY healthy.
(might be 1000+, hard to keep track of that many deer )

This has been a common sight all week.
Look how healthy these deer are!










Even the elk on the North slopes are not in that deep of snow.
Got pic this morning of two GOOD bulls, 
I'll down load them and post them up later.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Our winter is going to have to get severely worse than it has been to this point to have a 50% reduction in deer tags next year. Let's hope that DallanC's prediction does not come true. That would be catastrophic.


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## kdog (May 4, 2015)

JuniorPre 360 said:


> I've hunted a crappy area in the Box Elder unit just to spend time with my dad. Does this mean when I draw for it this year (my whole family draws every year) I'll lose my points? 5 points to shoot at spikes?


Yes it does.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Saweeeet


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Nope, NOT even close.....
> 
> There are a few units that will have winter kill problems, mostly Northern units.
> 
> ...


Those are some fine looking healthy deer there


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> There are a few units that will have winter kill problems, mostly Northern units.
> 
> But most of the state is still OK.
> Haven't had any long stretch's of really cold weather.
> ...


I agree. Down here in Springville, the hillsides have been bare and the deer and elk seemed rather fit, all considered. It does seem to get worse the farther North one goes, better as you go South.

Went for a drive on Sunday morning and saw a "bachelor" herd of 6 bull elk up Hobble Creek, including a couple nice ones. Lots of deer.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

This Guy? said:


> The limited entry hunts are were the so called lottery is a joke. I've got 15 points and have not drawn out and know people with 18 that still haven't drawn out while others have drawn with fewer points. Still kicking myself for not buying a life time permit for 150 bucks the last year they sold them.





Or This Guy? said:


> So working and abiding by the rules trying to get to that limited entry hunt now I will NEVER draw and I will lose everything I have banked!!! Perfect!!!





Or This Guy? said:


> Their system sucks, cause they want to sell those out of state tags and licenses. I drew once in five years and live here. My friend in CA draws almost every time he puts in. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


 I. can. not. stop. laughing.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

This Guy said:


> Still kicking myself for not buying a life time permit for 150 bucks the last year they sold them.


I guess that I should of waited. I had to pay $500 for mine.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Less than 10% may have been using the loophole.
> 
> Some may have just been putting archery and ML as a second choice.
> 
> If there are leftovers, then it would be a max of 10% of the tags


thanks muscle

i had no idea there were so few using the loophole. i was a latecomer to that party and realize that i'd rather hunt every year than hunt the best units out there.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Critter said:


> I guess that I should of waited. I had to pay $500 for mine.


So did I. (And everyone else...)


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Interesting fact:
I just did some checking on the DWR GS deer result/draws 2016.

Did the math, There are 53,000+ sportsmen with 1 or more PP going into 2017.

Kinda surprised me, I can see were ALOT of guys with zero points will not draw a 
general season deer tag this year.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

That does seem like a high number. I don't know why, but with as few of people that were allegedly utilizing the loophole, I'd expect that number to be lower. 

The interesting number will be how many people have 1 or more points at this time next year!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The abusers are people with max points averaging down to keep from drawing, thus retaining their points. just because someone has a point or two doesn't mean they were exploiting the system.

-DallanC


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

Just in time for the worst winter in what, 5 years?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Wow,
Forgot to add the guys in that just bought points last year, over 5,600.

We are looking at 60K with 1 or more PP going into 2017 for GS deer!
These are resident only numbers.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

goofy elk said:


> Wow,
> Forgot to add the guys in that just bought points last year, over 5,600.
> 
> We are looking at 60K with 1 or more PP going into 2017 for GS deer!
> These are resident only numbers.


Say there is a 10 k reduction in tags overall and then take out 18% youth , then take out landowner and lifetime licenses . You may be left with only 50 k tags in the draw. The accumulation of points may continue, because of the limited availability of the resource and the different standards in allocating the tags .


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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

What! There may be folks that don't draw their first choice? Say it isn't so.......


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

300 Wby said:


> What! There may be folks that don't draw their first choice? Say it isn't so.......


Utahns are not killing enough coyotes apparently. Better increase the bounty to $75

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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

They might want to start a bounty on snowflakes to help the deer herd.....

And there could be a possibility the stats presented/published are wrong? Say it ain't so! 

60,000 people with 1 or more point? Get ready for point creep on some units and easier drawing on others. 

My wife has 8 GS deer points. Where should she apply for a chance at a 195" typical? From the road. 

..


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Packout said:


> They might want to start a bounty on snowflakes to help the deer herd.....
> 
> And there could be a possibility the stats presented/published are wrong? Say it ain't so!
> 
> ...


Zion! And hunt some of the roads west of SR89 in the hopes that one (or more) of the Paunsaugunt broozers follows a doe across 89. :grin:


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> Zion! And hunt some of the roads west of SR89 in the hopes that one (or more) of the Paunsaugunt broozers follows a doe across 89. :grin:


That's kind of like saying the Zion is the best trophy any bull unit in the state because there's a chance that a big bull from the Panguitch side may cross over to the South side of highway 14.;-)


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

We used to hunt just on the south boundaries of the panguitch unit just for that reason back in the 90's. :mrgreen:
Our group got 2 or 3 very nice bulls doing that. I never got one, but was with a friend one morning when he got a dandy 6 x 6. I helped another guy get a 350+ bull loaaded he actually caught crossing the road to the open side. Another one got a 370 bull. 

Now that unit is in the toilet as far as I am concerned. Don't hunt there or the unit anymore.


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## 300 Wby (Aug 14, 2008)

For sure; need a larger bounty and 200 more tags for the Expo!!!!!! That will solve the problem that those non-existent loop hole users created.. ( I never used it for the record).......until the next one that is.......let me guess what we'll hear "It takes me three years to draw when it used to take two! The wildlife board needs to be pro-active and fix it now by instituting a single point system for Deer!". Just pure sarcasm folks but I can hardly wait for the un-intended consequences to manifest themselves in the next two to three years


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I'll live with the unintended consequences ;-)
At least now everyone in Salt Lake and Utah county have a chance at drawing 17 without someone getting it with their second choice every year.
But now I don't think those Thousand Lake tags are going to get very much easier to draw even with the change.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

I may not be understanding the change. I won't be losing my points I buy each year will I?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

JuniorPre 360 said:


> I may not be understanding the change. I won't be losing my points I buy each year will I?


No, You only lose your points when you draw a GE tag.

-DallanC


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> That's kind of like saying the Zion is the best trophy any bull unit in the state because there's a chance that a big bull from the Panguitch side may cross over to the South side of highway 14.;-)


Yep! How'd you know? Did you see him at Ace Hardware in Cedar City?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> Yep! How'd you know? Did you see him at Ace Hardware in Cedar City?


You have an elk in the Ace Hardware?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> You have an elk in the Ace Hardware?


Yep! And a P&Y pronghorn! (I'm still looking for a (meaning ONE) mule deer and a (meaning ONE) moose.)

Ya see, in spite of what some of you may think, I'm not against trophy hunting and trophy hunters. I just don't want the whole d*** state turned into trophy hunts and units with the accompanying loss of tags and opportunity. And that's what is happening, per; Option #2; ever increasing buck to doe ratios and age objectives; loss of statewide archery; ever increasing social population objectives; smaller units; more and more Limited Entry hunts and units with their accompanying Conservation (auction) tags; the push for shorter seasons and antler restrictions; claims of overcrowding; and the constant grooming of trophy-oriented youth.

Ya need to let some of us old geezers hunt who don't have much time left and who can no longer hike the hills and who can't (or don't want to) spend a lot of money and/or time chasing some freak animal around who happens to have some head hardware. In return, we'll take some of our kids and grandkids with us and teach them what past generations and our own observations have taught us about game animals and hunting for the rest of their lives.


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