# Pattern Problem, need help



## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I am perplexed and need help. My grandson has a youth mossberg 500 that has screw in chokes. I have a modified in it and it patterns lead shot very well. I took it to the range this weekend with Federal 7/8 oz steel shot in #4 size @1500 fps and at 40 yards you could fly a 747 through the pattern. There is no way you could down a duck with this pattern. Any suggestions?


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> I am perplexed and need help. My grandson has a youth mossberg 500 that has screw in chokes. I have a modified in it and it patterns lead shot very well. I took it to the range this weekend with Federal 7/8 oz steel shot in #4 size @1500 fps and at 40 yards you could fly a 747 through the pattern. There is no way you could down a duck with this pattern. Any suggestions?


At that speed often a tighter tube works better. You could pick up a Carlson ext LM and MOD tube and try again. After market extended tubes tend to pattern better then factory tubes.

The other thing would be to try a different load. Pick up box of slower heavier shells. Like a 1 oz load of 4 or 3 shot.

You either have to find the right load for the choke or the right choke for the load.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with HH. I would look at getting some better choke tubes. 

I dunno what options there are for Mossberg. But I'd assume (we all know where that gets us) that there are some quality options.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

i agree with hh. All of my guns have the Carlson short range and they pattern awesome. I love them.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I pulled off the choke and it's a Carlson flush mount modified. Going to try different ammo first.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

OK here's the deal. Pulled off the choke and cleaned up the threads and barrel really good and re-installed. Had 4 different types of shells to pattern. All of them 3" and #4 shot. Winchester at 1500 fps...still shooting like crap. You could fly a pterodactyl through the pattern. Next was Kent Fasteel at 1550 fps. Patterns were decent but about every 3rd shell was an inconsistent pattern. Next came RIO's at 1 oz per load and 1400 fps. Similar results to Kent, 2 out of 3 good patterns and 1 inconsistent. Then I tried Federal at 1300 FPS and we found a winner. Every pattern even and consistent. Obviously slower than I want at 1300 fps but if centered and in range the bird is coming down. At that speed I want to find a box of 3's and pattern them to see if the pattern is decent and give a little more knockdown power. I'll have him shoot Fed's the rest of the season but use up the Kent's and RIO's too. I'll save the Winchester's for cripples and see if it at least can put down a cripple. I've thought of springing for a new choke but they're $40+ and next year he'll be using a 12 ga in 2 3/4 so we will just manage this season with the Federals. I'll be bringing the 12 though and seeing if I can get him to try it once in a while. He's pretty good size for a 12 year old, almost 13. Around 5'6" to 5'7" and about 140 pounds. When I was that size I was using a 16 gauge back in the lead shot days with no problems.


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## elitewaterfowl (Sep 5, 2014)

My dad shoots a modified kicks high flyer and its awesome! He has been able to kill ducks (and I'm not lying) out to 65 yards that had landed on the outskirts of our decoys. Im planning on getting one in the next few days.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> I pulled off the choke and it's a Carlson flush mount modified. Going to try different ammo first.


That's usually the cheapest and simplest fix. But a couple boxes of different brands and see what patterns best. I shoot a briley aftermarket choke out of my gun and the cheap Winchester shells pattern better than most of the high end stuff. And the black cloud leaves a huge hole in the middle of my pattern. If I hadn't tried a few brands and price points I probably would have compromised with a load that costs twice as much and performs half as well.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> OK here's the deal. Pulled off the choke and cleaned up the threads and barrel really good and re-installed. Had 4 different types of shells to pattern. All of them 3" and #4 shot. Winchester at 1500 fps...still shooting like crap. You could fly a pterodactyl through the pattern. Next was Kent Fasteel at 1550 fps. Patterns were decent but about every 3rd shell was an inconsistent pattern. Next came RIO's at 1 oz per load and 1400 fps. Similar results to Kent, 2 out of 3 good patterns and 1 inconsistent. Then I tried Federal at 1300 FPS and we found a winner. Every pattern even and consistent. Obviously slower than I want at 1300 fps but if centered and in range the bird is coming down. At that speed I want to find a box of 3's and pattern them to see if the pattern is decent and give a little more knockdown power. I'll have him shoot Fed's the rest of the season but use up the Kent's and RIO's too. I'll save the Winchester's for cripples and see if it at least can put down a cripple. I've thought of springing for a new choke but they're $40+ and next year he'll be using a 12 ga in 2 3/4 so we will just manage this season with the Federals. I'll be bringing the 12 though and seeing if I can get him to try it once in a while. He's pretty good size for a 12 year old, almost 13. Around 5'6" to 5'7" and about 140 pounds. When I was that size I was using a 16 gauge back in the lead shot days with no problems.


Sounds like you got a good load found.

My question is why dose he need a 12? Believe me I am not digging on you when I ask this question but what can the 12 do that is better then the 20?

If you are teaching him to keep his shots to 40 (45 with the right choke and load) and under then the 20 is all he will ever need, even for geese.

Here is a link to one of my favorite loads for the price for the 20. It has killed more ducks (and a few honkers) then most 12 bores out in the marsh

https://www.shopdunns.com/products/shotgun_shells/91/1/

https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com...deral-speed-shok-steel-waterfowl-20-ga-3.html

I like the 3 shot best but the 2's choked right do a number on the birds;-)

Carlson ext mod with the 3 shot federal load. Its a little to tight for 40 but at 45 opens up nice:mrgreen:


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

hamernhonkers said:


> My question is why dose he need a 12? Believe me I am not digging on you when I ask this question but what can the 12 do that is better then the 20?


Nash Buckingham fan maybe? ;-)

*I believe in hitting him very hard with big shot from a big gun....."

-Nash Buckingham*


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

hamernhonkers said:


> Sounds like you got a good load found.
> 
> My question is why dose he need a 12? Believe me I am not digging on you when I ask this question but what can the 12 do that is better then the 20?
> 
> ...


The 20 is a youth model Mossberg pump with a 22" barrel. He really has outgrown the gun as it barely fits him with the stock extension, he is almost 13 and is big for his age (he's 3 inches shorter and 5 pounds heavier than I was when I graduated from college!). Since I have more Remington 1100's in 12 gauge than carter's has little pills, it's just logical to outfit him next season with an 1100 12 gauge in 2 3/4" instead of going out and spending $$$ for another 20 in full size.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Geeze! Big boy... 

How does he fit the 1100? if he can control it safely...put it in his hand this year. Recoil will be nil.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Longgun said:


> Geeze! Big boy...
> 
> How does he fit the 1100? if he can control it safely...put it in his hand this year. Recoil will be nil.


I know. I need to get him to liking football. Might make it as a tight end. The 1100 fits him fairly good but it is a little different for him in swinging it for a passing shot. I plan on "breaking him in" on it and having him shoot it once or twice every time we go out. He will still primarily use his 20 but I want him to use the 1100 at least a couple of times each hunt. He has shot it at the range and the recoil is probably about the same or a tad less than the 20 due to the weight differential. That little 20 hardly weighs anything. It almost looks like a toy when he has it up to his shoulder but it's "his" gun that he won in a raffle and it's sentimental to him.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

Longgun said:


> Nash Buckingham fan maybe? ;-)
> 
> *I believe in hitting him very hard with big shot from a big gun....."
> 
> -Nash Buckingham*


Lol that's why I own 4 10 bores


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> The 20 is a youth model Mossberg pump with a 22" barrel. He really has outgrown the gun as it barely fits him with the stock extension, he is almost 13 and is big for his age (he's 3 inches shorter and 5 pounds heavier than I was when I graduated from college!). Since I have more Remington 1100's in 12 gauge than carter's has little pills, it's just logical to outfit him next season with an 1100 12 gauge in 2 3/4" instead of going out and spending $$$ for another 20 in full size.


Lost, that makes perfect sense!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

hamernhonkers said:


> Lost, that makes perfect sense!


Well we had a really awesome youth opener thanks to Gordy and his incredible generosity.

We got out to our spot via Gordy's boat (of which the grandson is now dogging on PawPaw to get one) and proceeded to do a good job of educating teal. After about half a box of 20 gauge and not a dead bird for my grandson, I asked him to try the 12. He absolutely loved the 12. Unfortunately he had never shot it at birds before and was shooting like his PawPaw and was behind the birds. Eventually he did manage to get a drake mallard over the decoys and a hen cinny quartering away behind him before he ran out of shells. On the way home I was informed that it's time to put away the 20 and use the 12 exclusively. The 20 is just too small for him now (it's a youth model with a 22" barrel) and I really was surprised he wants to put his cherished gun in the safe and stay with PawPaw's "old" model 1100. I guess in the next two weeks I will be buying several types of shells and patterning it. Since he seems to be shooting behind some, I am going to get some faster shells and see if I can find one that patterns good and that may help a tad with shooting behind.

I can't thank Gordy enough for being an awesome guide and taking us out there. My grandson couldn't stop talking about that hunt all day long.

If anyone is looking for some factory 20 gauge steel shot let me know. I have about 4-5 boxes of #4 shot, Winchester, Federal and Kent that I am looking to sell now. Will let it go at a reasonable price. It is all brand new bought in the last month.


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