# Can your broadhead do this?



## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

So this is an Elk femur from a spike I killed two years ago. After I butchered one of the hind quarters I propped it up and shot it with a 170 grain Grizzly Broadhead and used my 50 lb recurve bow. I would imagine that if an elk had it's weight on this bone the damage would be even more substantial and perhaps a 3 blade head would shatter it as well. But I got the idea to shoot these heads after I read some of the reports from a study done by Dr. Ed Ashby. It was a 27 year study of arrow performance and broadhead lethality on actual game animals.

Not sure this applies to all the compound bow users out there. I know you like the Epik heads because they fly so great. And It's hard to argue with the photos that bwhntr posted of his wife's kill on Tex-O-Bobs thread "first hour bull, last hour bull, (Mine was the first hour bull). But for me, my arrows actually flew better with the single bevel heads than they did with field tips...theoretically because the single bevel design helps to spin and stabilize the flight of your arrow. And then there's all you long range knuckleheads that like to shoot passed 100 yards...since you never really know how far the animal your shooting at might travel by the time your arrow arrives, it may be a good idea to hunt with the broadhead that can do the most damage.

Anyway...I mentioned earlier in Tex-O-Bobs thread that I had never passed though an elk until I used this head. This year I killed my biggest elk to date and had to put some effort into pulling the arrow out of the mud after it passed through. He stood there stunned and gave me a second shot but ran just before I let the arrow go and I hit him in the ass. While the entire arrow didn't pass through both cheeks, the head did and I was able to see the devastation of the wound both in the way the bull walked his last 30 yards and while quartering the animal. Seems that the single bevel design kind of cork-screws it's way through flesh and bone. And with the tanto tip it kind of pops bone with the initial impact.

So has anyone ever used a single bevel head with a compound bow? I would be curious to know.

If anyone is interested go to http://www.tradjournal.com/index.php/ar ... by-reports to read the full report. There's also some info and a shot of Dr. Ashby posing with some kind of big animal he killed at http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

Again...might not be for everyone but it may be worth checking out. The heads are dirt cheap but take a little work to get sharp. You can spend $110 per 3pack on the Ashby heads but they are basically the same thing.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

I try to not need to penetrate a bone bigger than a "rib" bone. The broadhead that I shoot is very accurate and usually hits where I am aiming. You may get some takers that will post pics of hip bones shattered by some of the other broadheads on the market that as you let the string go, decide for themselves where to hit.  
I could show you some amazing photo's of devastating blows to the mid section but sorry, I am fresh out of femur bone shots.


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## amadkau (Sep 7, 2011)

Not trying to be rude but I don't know of a broadhead that couldn't do that.


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

I tried a few other heads and this is the only one that even came close...remember I'm using a 50 lb recurve.


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

And by "can your broadhead do this?" I mean can it go through a big bone and maintain it's shape and cutting surface. I'm sure any head can break a big bone if it's coming out of an 85lb compound bow...but then what happens? Do all the blade inserts come flying off? does it break or bend?


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

I thought the idea was NOT to go through big bones......


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Bowdacious said:


> I thought the idea was NOT to go through big bones......


Well when you're lobbing arrows 120+ yards at animals every advantage helps......


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

And what if your just a bit off and you hit the scapula? Will all the machanical parts of your head sheer off and turn it into a field tip? Or will a 3 blade head not get the penetration you need to kill the animal?


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## amadkau (Sep 7, 2011)

No I don't think my 2 blade rage heads would hold up, they could go through the bone like that but would probably snap a blade and I wouldn't be reusing the heads. They hold up fine going through ribs and stopping in trees on a pass through though.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

The best scenario (terrible shot) I can share was with a 3 blade 125 gr muzzy. I watched my buddy take a shot at a deer from a considerable distance. The recovery was quick as the deer only went 80 yards or less. However, he hit the deer in the back femur snapping the femur passing through the deer snapping the lower leg on the other side. The broadhead had very minimal damage as it looked as if it could be used again. Lucky is all I can say.

I still stick with the belief that as hunters we need to constantly get better. Get closer. Make better shots. Shot placement is everything and the broadhead is just over compensation for our lack of perfection.


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

Great story…I guess the flight of your arrow might outweigh the durability of the head in most cases. I just wonder if the single bevel design would give you both. I’ve read a heavy arrow and a single bevel, one piece head is required by most outfitters in Africa if your going after Cape Buffalo…and maybe it’s overkill for deer and elk if you have an 85 lb bow. I decided to shoot them because I’m shooting a 50 lb recurve and they really do make my arrows fly better…so I’ll probably stick with it.

I looked at those Rage two blade heads online and I’m sure if they held up the wound channel would be devastating. Nice to have so many choices these days.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

So here is a question for you archery guys. Is a complete pass through better, or is it better that an arrow stick in the animal, so as it moves around, the broad head will continue to slice and dice things inside, causing further damage?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

That debate has been around since the bow and arrow has been around... You'll have equal guys in both camps. Usually the old timers who shot light bows and never got a pass through anyway were all for the arrow staying in. It made sense and I suppose there is some truth to the fact that an arrow in the chest cavity churning around while it runs away will cause more damage. But then you have the two hole, better blood trail camp who like a pass through shot. Personally I dont care. I've done both with equal results. As long as the arrow makes it to the other side of the chest cavity and bifurcates both lungs I dont care if it comes out the other side or not. "Bilateral pneumothorax" is the ultimate goal. As long as you do that, they're dead no matter how you slice it. (pun intended)


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

Doesn't an arrow left inside of the animal slow some of the bleeding? I thought a pass through was always best. I guess if you made a bad shot a sharp head moving around, say in the guts, might help.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I prefer a pass through. An entrance hole and exit hole typically means more blood on the ground. However, I am sure a broadhead broke off inside will ocntinue to cut and do damage. I would think MOST bows, including traditional recurves, should pass through the animal if put in the right place.


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

Like I said...it's only happened once for me. Tex told me it may have had to do with the fact that it was my longest shot ever...22yards. Which may have let the flight of the arrow straiten out a bit. Makes sense but I still think it's the two blade, single bevel head. He was shooting about the same pounds as me and couldn't get an exit wound with a 3 blade head...10 yard shot though. I'm sure every shot has it's own set of variables that determine weather or not you get a pass through and it's impossible to really know why or why not it happened.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> As long as the arrow makes it to the other side of the chest cavity and *bifurcates* both lungs I dont care if it comes out the other side or not. "Bilateral pneumothorax" is the ultimate goal. As long as you do that, they're dead no matter how you slice it. (pun intended)





> bifurcate
> verb |?b?f?r?k?t|
> divide into two branches or forks: [ no obj. ] : just below Cairo the river bifurcates | [ with obj. ] : the trail was bifurcated by a mountain stream.
> adjective |b??f?rk?t, ?b?f?rkit|
> ...


Huh??? Two branches or forks in each lung???


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Fishrmn said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > As long as the arrow makes it to the other side of the chest cavity and *bifurcates* both lungs I dont care if it comes out the other side or not. "Bilateral pneumothorax" is the ultimate goal. As long as you do that, they're dead no matter how you slice it. (pun intended)
> ...


Ok Mr English major... Would you settle for perforate? :mrgreen:

You're right, bifurcate was the wrong choice of word...


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

One of my favorite words. Mule deer have bifurcated antlers. Or at least they're supposed to.

:mrgreen:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I guess if you had a big enough broadhead you could bifurcate the lungs...


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I guess if you had a big enough broadhead you could bifurcate the lungs...


Exactly! I liked your word choice Tex.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

my broadhead would have shattered that bone and keep going.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> my broadhead would have shattered that bone and keep going.


You have to shoot at something first Dustin.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > my broadhead would have shattered that bone and keep going.
> ...


I have I killed three deer in a row. Sorry im not cool like you killing big deer and elk . :mrgreen:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)




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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I guess if you had a big enough broadhead you could bifurcate the lungs...


You are just being nice because he is your brother by stating that you could Brucifercate the lungs.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Brucifercate...  I like it. We'll have to start using that one!


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

That is better...for a second I thought all you guys were starting to sound bi-curious.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

No, not me and Shane. I cant speak for Scotty Mac but he has a perty wife and 14 kids...


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> No, not me and Shane. I cant speak for Scotty Mac but he has a perty wife and 14 kids...


Nope not me...Tex and I discussed the possibilities to great length...but he was just too hairy. Thanks for the offer Bruce, maybe next time.


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## Anaconda Pintler (Oct 29, 2007)

Bruce I agree with you 100%, I have done some pretty cool testing of all sorts with my equipment for sometime now I will say I have tried just about everything to screw up a good system and to put doubt in my mind! First I must say I am a huge Snuffer fan for the game I hunt most which is Whitetails here in the south to me that is the most devastating head for these light bone/ skinned mammals! BUT i did a helluva lot of testing before I went to the Moose John River in AK for a 160 mile self guided float hunt for Moose cuz I figured it to be a once in a lifetime trip and wanted to set myself up for success! I tested the Grizzly El Grande (the 190gr) version as well as the others, I bought a jig so I could drill a deep hole in the center of the shaft and insert different lengths of welding rod for wieght ie. increase FOC, what I found was there was a fine line with the head/arrow weight/speed and design, I made some arrows that were laminated birch with the Grizzly heads and they finished at 875 gr they shot amazing with all that wieght and really made a super quiet bow I was shooting a 78lb Robertson longbow the arrows with that setup were chrono at 180fps with perfect flight, but do you know that the arrow setup I chose was a laminated birch arrow with front wieghted and a 160 gr Magnus head that I tanto'd the tip the setup wieghed 680 and was chrono at 219 fps and flat out performed every single test I did! When I got to base camp the legendary Doug Borland was there and he and I visited about equipment and he absolutely loved my setup he said they were the strongest heaviest most balanced arrow he had seen, likewise he said that with my setup and given normal circumstances he had no doubt I would have a pass thru on a large AK Moose! confidence ran high but no luck! But I agree 2 blade heads will outperform on large mammals every time! I will never be convinced of the single bevel head design "rotating and drilling" its way thru flesh and bone though I have just shot to many myself and have never seen results proving it to me!


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## Anaconda Pintler (Oct 29, 2007)

CAVEMAN has spoken!!!


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## robertsfam (Feb 1, 2012)

But can yours do this
[attachment=0:2x3xnbnx]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1350482769.196011.jpg[/attachment:2x3xnbnx]


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> But can yours do this


As a mater of fact yes, it can. Only this was just a little wimpy 48 pound longbow...
How many pounds is your gunbow set at?


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## hunter24 (Oct 20, 2010)

i know that my broad head cant do that. because it would go all the way threw the bone and not stop


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

AP??? Are you still alive? 8)


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> PA??? Are you still alive? 8)


I don't get it...


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

Anaconda Pintler said:


> But I agree 2 blade heads will outperform on large mammals every time! I will never be convinced of the single bevel head design "rotating and drilling" its way thru flesh and bone though I have just shot to many myself and have never seen results proving it to me!


So do you think it's that tanto tip that kind of pops the bone apart and not really the single bevel? I thought it was the package of the two that did the trick but looking at it I think you might be right.

And I think I will go back to a 3 blade head for deer...way too many great pics of crazy wounds posted by bwhnter, Tex, and Robertsfam to argue that point. Who doesn't like a garden hose style blood trail? I'm staying with the grizzly for elk though.


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## brucifr (Sep 18, 2012)

Anaconda Pintler said:


> I was shooting a 78lb Robertson longbow the arrows with that setup were chrono at 180fps with perfect flight,


78lb longbow?!!! my god that's impressive. I bought a 58lb JK Chastain takedown Wapati for this season because I was afraid my 49lb wasn't going to ever get me a passthrough.

I practiced more than I ever have for my limited entry elk hunt this year and may have given myself a life long tendon injury. I was lucky to make it to the season and now I can barley work the mouse on my computer without wincing in pain. Seeing a doc this week to find out if I need a surgery.

Anyone out there experienced this injury? It's basically tennis elbow.

Sucks being a scrawny, 5ft.8, 155lb, 45year old weakling.

Wish the caveman was with me when I had to carry 350 pounds of elk meat to my rig...gawd that hurt.


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## robertsfam (Feb 1, 2012)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> > But can yours do this
> 
> 
> As a mater of fact yes, it can. Only this was just a little wimpy 48 pound longbow...
> How many pounds is your gunbow set at?


It's at 55 pounds not much


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> It's at 55 pounds not much


As you've proven to yourself, that's plenty... 

You're shooting a 55 pound bow out to 127 yards? Wow... :shock: What's the arc like on that shot? Todays equipment continues to impress. Kinda....


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## robertsfam (Feb 1, 2012)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> > It's at 55 pounds not much
> 
> 
> As you've proven to yourself, that's plenty...
> ...


Lol that would be one he$& of an arc I shoot 75 and its a flat and fast


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > PA??? Are you still alive? 8)
> ...


Sheesh I must be dumb...I meant AP. _(O)_


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Still dont get it...


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