# Wyoming 2014 permit increase-



## goofy elk

WyoG,, have you seen this?

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Introduced/SF0032.pdf

Not nearly as steep of permit increases as was projected,
I CAN live with this if it's all correct!

A couple questions goob, Did the leave the youth permit price unchanged?
I think so, and if so OOO°)OO

And the non-res special permit price , ?? cant figure that one out for sure.


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## torowy

Ya I was expecting worse.


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> WyoG,, have you seen this?
> 
> http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Introduced/SF0032.pdf
> 
> Not nearly as steep of permit increases as was projected,
> I CAN live with this if if all correct!
> 
> A couple questions goob, Did the leave the youth permit price unchanged?
> I think so, and if so OOO°)OO
> 
> And the non-res special permit price , ?? cant figure that one out for sure.


What? They look pretty high to me. Non-res Antelope went from $270 to $400. Isn't that close to a 50% raise? Then there's the Cost of Living Index increases that could raise tag prices annually.

I went to a fisheries meeting last night and got a fee increase handout from the Game & Fish Dept. Man, there's 93 licenses on the list! There are no proposed increases for any of the youth licenses. 

The Department itself is not so sure the bill will pass. The Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Committe (TRWCR) is made up of fiscal conservative state congressman and senators. They are caught up in the conservative "no mo government," "no mo taxes," thing like their big brothers in Washington DC. So the Wyoming Game & Fish Dept. could be faced with up to a 20% budget reduction for 2014. That is not counting the 3% budget reduction the Department did for 2013.

About 13 hunting, fishing and conservation groups are working together lobbying the TRWCR to pass the fee increase proposal.


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## DallanC

Haha and I gave up hunting wyoming when it went from $200 to $250.


-DallanC


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## svmoose

These are exactly what I had seen before. In many cases I don't think the price increase is too bad. I'd rather they not include a fishing/small game license with antelope and deer as it increases the cost more. Antelope goes from $270 to $400. That's a 48% increase. I know you get to fish, but for those who just want to shoot a goat - that's quite the jump. Same with deer, going from 310 to 480 - an even bigger increase on 55%.

I could very well see it if they'd dump off $90-$100 for the fishing license, or at least make it an option.


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## goofy elk

On lines 9 thru 19, I interpreted it as,
elk -$480 to $600
deer- $240 to $300
Antelope - $240 to $300
Correct or not?

9 (i) Nonresident elk license ...... $480.00
10 $600.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
11 paragraph (j)(xix) of this section;
12
13 (ii) Nonresident deer license .... $240.00
14 $300.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
15 paragraph (j)(xv) of this section;
16
17 (iii) Nonresident antelope license ..... $240.00
18 $300.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
19 paragraph (j)(xxxi) of this section.

Are they making it mandatory small game/fish along with the permit?


The first numbers I saw had elk at $750, deer and antelope @ $500..


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## svmoose

Well that's what the fee is increased to but it also says: "in addition to the license fee imposed under 
19 paragraph (j)(xxx) of this section. 

Read down and see that in the specified section of paragraph J, the additional license fee is an additional small game/fishing license. Elk has been this way for a while, but deer and antelope haven't. They're piggybacking a mandatory small game and fishing licenses on these tags, so you get 2 licenses for one price, one of which likely wouldn't have been purchased by most deer and antelope hunters.

This increases the overall tag price for those who wouldn't otherwise be be fishing or hunting small game.

I need to look into this a little more, to see if it optional but I was under the assumption it was mandatory.


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> On lines 9 thru 19, I interpreted it as,
> elk -$480 to $600
> deer- $240 to $300
> Antelope - $240 to $300
> Correct or not?
> 
> 9 (i) Nonresident elk license ...... $480.00
> 10 $600.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
> 11 paragraph (j)(xix) of this section;
> 12
> 13 (ii) Nonresident deer license .... $240.00
> 14 $300.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
> 15 paragraph (j)(xv) of this section;
> 16
> 17 (iii) Nonresident antelope license ..... $240.00
> 18 $300.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
> 19 paragraph (j)(xxxi) of this section.
> 
> Are they making it mandatory small game/fish along with the permit?
> 
> The first numbers I saw had elk at $750, deer and antelope @ $500..


Yeah, I seen that too. It's a little confusing to me too. There's 3 types of nonres antelope tags:

> Nonres Antelope plus fishing and small game for *$400*
> Nonres Antelope Special went to $300 plus the $400 special tag fee for a total of *$700*. 
> Nonres youth plus fishing and small game stays at *$110*

The Special tags are super high-priced but your chances to draw are usually 100%. They are the regular tag price plus the Special tag fee. The regular deer elk and antelope tags have fishing and hunting so yes, the Special tags will include those too.

2014 Nonres Special License proposal:
Antelope - *$700*
Deer - *$780*
Elk - *$1,250*

Residents aren't "Special" like you fellas; we don't have special tags.


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## gdog

Goob...uh...can I borrow some money?


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> On lines 9 thru 19, I interpreted it as,
> elk -$480 to $600
> deer- $240 to $300
> Antelope - $240 to $300
> Correct or not?
> Those are the Special fees. Add them to the tag price.
> 
> 9 (i) Nonresident elk license ...... $480.00
> 10 $600.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
> 11 paragraph (j)(xix) of this section;
> 12
> 13 (ii) Nonresident deer license .... $240.00
> 14 $300.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
> 15 paragraph (j)(xv) of this section;
> 16
> 17 (iii) Nonresident antelope license ..... $240.00
> 18 $300.00 in addition to the license fee imposed under
> 19 paragraph (j)(xxxi) of this section.
> 
> Are they making it mandatory small game/fish along with the permit?
> For that particular license, yes.
> 
> The first numbers I saw had elk at $750, deer and antelope @ $500..
> Then you have to add the Special fee. $400 for antelope for a total of $700 for Nonresident Special Antelope


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## wyogoob

gdog said:


> Goob...uh...can I borrow some money?


That's a huge jump for the Special tag fee. If you look at the numbers of applicants for through the Special tag fee now, they may have trouble selling all of those starting out in 2014. They will sell all the regular tags easy with maybe a small decrease in applicants. That's good for you guys because the point creep is getting worse every year for nonresidents.

I'm not so sure the bill will pass. There are some outdoor groups that are against the proposal as written and like I said there's the fiscal conservatives that run Wyoming.


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## GaryFish

Looks pretty similar to what Montana did two years ago. Probably where they got the idea. In Montana, it was pushed by the locals that were ticked about the out of state people coming in and shooting all their deer/elk. The end result was that Montana went from selling 100% of their non-resident quotas, and it taking 2-3 years to draw a non-resident tag, to now where they have gone under-subscribed two years in a row. While the non-resident prices doubled in one year, revenue dropped - just the opposite of what they wanted to happen. 

AND - in Montana, they did away with the guaranteed tag if you used an outfitter - offering a significant blow to outfitters. AND with the non-resident tags going under-subscribed, small towns that depend on non-resident hunters for revenue whined like no tomorrow. And at this point, they can't get the toothpaste back in the tube with the non-resident pricing.


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## Mr Muleskinner

this is pretty disappointing having donated to draw for a few years. If it passes maybe the best idea for me would be to put in for areas that I know that I have no chance at and wait to see if the prices are reversed in a few years. Just build some points in the meantime and hunt Utah and Idaho.


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## wyogoob

Mr Muleskinner said:


> this is pretty disappointing having donated to draw for a few years. If it passes maybe the best idea for me would be to put in for areas that I know that I have no chance at and wait to see if the prices are reversed in a few years. Just build some points in the meantime and hunt Utah and Idaho.


Actually if you are waiting in line with points it should help. Some will drop out because of the rise in prices helping point creep.

The backlog of applicants with points gets longer and longer each year. Antelope on public ground may take 4 or 5 points, many deer and elk hunts take 5 points. Moose and mountain sheep take 17 points.

We all know that all the tags will get sold at the new rates. The Special rate is a fee, just a better chances of drawing. If zero there's no Special applicants it doesn't change the number of tags issued. The continuing point creep and the huge number of people "waiting in line" to draw prompted the Department to take a certain percentage of tags out of the point system and offer them in a computer draw. If not, young hunters, or any hunters just getting in the system, would have to wait forever to get tags.

Sooner or later the increasing point creep would have to be dealt with, especially with lower big game populations. Raising prices would be one way to help with point creep.

Do nonresidents still have the option to buy preference points in the new proposal? I can't find anything on it.


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## mack1950

the biggest problem i have with the small game/ fishing mandatory permits added to the antelope and deer is that we hunt both how the heck does that figure in two sets of fishing/small game permits ? looks like a round table discussion for our group to see how this is going to for see our future hunts in wyoming man you throw in a elk permit and all of a sudden you have 3 sets of small game permits/fishing permits just dosnt make sense but im sure thats what there thinking.


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## MWScott72

So if I understand correctly, anyone that draws a non-resident antelope permit will be required to have the small game / fishing permit added for the extra $130? Is that the "cliff notes" version of the antelope license changes for the regular draw?

Thank goodness my wife's family takes an annual week long trip up the Greys where I get to fish for a week...otherwise that extra $130 would probably have me thinking twice about trying to pull goat tags on a somewhat regular basis.

Wish I could vote myself a pay raise like Congress does...


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## ntrl_brn_rebel

:lol: 

Can someone sum all this up in a short description of price increases and how much for each tag

Im confused :mrgreen:


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## svmoose

Here's the skinny on what's going on in wyoming for this proposed bill, which I expect to pass.

You don't have to purchase a small game/fishing license in addition to your deer, antelope, and elk tags - they come with it. It is a combo license of sorts, is mandatory, and a great way to increase tag fees by adding apparent value that many won't use.

The "special draw" remains the same with a price increase. These tags are pulled from the available tags and given in a different draw where folks who want to pay more *may* have better odds at drawing due to the higher fee. However, we have seen in some cases "special draw" odds are actually worse.

Here's the proposed price changes:

*Regular Draw:*

Deer: Increase from $310 to $480 and will now include fishing/small game privileges

Antelope: Increase from $270 to $400 and will now include fishing/small game privileges

Elk: Increase from $575 to $650 and will still include fishing/small game privileges

Others are listed in the link goofy gave.

*Special Draw:*

As Goob explained earlier in the thread, this special fee is added to the regular draw fee and has also increased in this proposal as follows:

Deer special fee increases from $240 to $300. Added to the tag price, special draw applications for deer will cost $780.

Antelope special fee increases from $240 to $300. Added to the tag price, special draw applications for antelope will cost $700.

Elk special fee increases from $480 to $600. Added to the tag price, special draw applications for elk will cost $1250.

Per mack1950's question regarding having more than one small game/fishing license if you are hunting multiple big game species, this isn't really an actual small game/fishing license. The deer, antelope, and elk tags will accompany small game and fishing privileges. I think that's how they are skirting the multiple license issue.


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## goofy elk

THANKs SV!

I think you need to edit your " will cost " lines on antelope & elk ..

But, I understand everything now.


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## svmoose

goofy elk said:


> THANKs SV!
> 
> I think you need to edit your " will cost " lines on antelope & elk ..
> 
> But, I understand everything now.


LOL, copy and paste will always get you in trouble! Thanks! Edit has been made.


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## N8ON

It will be interesting to see what happens to odds this year, a lot of people may be looking to cash in there points before the increase. Any rumors on doe/fawn increases? Those are great hunts to introduce people to hunting, so hopefully they stay low.


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## MWScott72

Thanks SV - appreciate the "bare bones" explanation!


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## toppin

Has anyone heard if the cost to just purchase bonus points will increase?


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## wyogoob

N8ON said:


> It will be interesting to see what happens to odds this year, a lot of people may be looking to cash in there points before the increase. Any rumors on doe/fawn increases? Those are great hunts to introduce people to hunting, so hopefully they stay low.


There are no increases proposed for reduced price Doe/Fawn Antelope licenses.

The Proposed License Fee Adjustment document the Game I Fish Dept gave me Wednesday says: Reduced Priced Doe/Fawn and Cow/Calf - No increase


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## wyogoob

The feeling I get about the proposed fee increases around Western Wyoming is that some hate it, some are for it - it's about 50-50. And like I said before I am in with a group of 13 or more outdoor groups that support the bill and we are putting our best efforts out to persuade the Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Committee (TRWCR) that it's a good thing.

Everyone's input is important. The Department derives over 60% of it's license money from nonresidents and I encourage noresidents to voice your opinions, for or against the measure. The proposal is SB0032. Send comments to Senator Bruce Burns: [email protected]

There's a big game meeting Jan 17th. I'll keep ya posted.


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## GaryFish

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I don't hunt in Wyoming. But I know that similar measures in Montana where I do hunt, back-fired and they lost revenue, both direct revenue in tag sales, and in overall economic impact of hunters not coming to the state to hunt. Be very careful what you ask for.


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## wyogoob

GaryFish said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight, as I don't hunt in Wyoming. But I know that similar measures in Montana where I do hunt, back-fired and they lost revenue, both direct revenue in tag sales, and in overall economic impact of hunters not coming to the state to hunt. Be very careful what you ask for.


IMO it's just not going to happen here. We increase license prices this way; wait 2-5 years, then spend another year or so arguing and legislating and the increase ends up being pretty big, like OUCH. And the nonresidents keep coming, keep applying, or buying the preference points and the backlog of people waiting in line gets bigger, longer every year.

If this thing passes license prices will go up and down as the cost of living index goes up and down. I'm not so sure how that's going to work out. Our hopes are the increases will be easily absorbed by the hunting puplic.

There is one part of the fee system that has some worried, including myself. It's the youth tags. There's no provision to increase the prices of big game youth tags and they are relatively cheap compared to the other tags. The youth tag thing is new so there's not a very big waiting line for them. Sadly, rumor has it there's a trend of parents getting tags for little Bobby or Suzie just so they can add another animal, doe fawn or buck, to the freezer. In other words, they're taking a lot of does and fawns off the antlered units that are trying to rebuild.

Lastly, if they dont sell the Special fee thingies, it doesn't matter that much, it just adds more regular priced licenses.


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## wyogoob

Grizzly bear tags will go from $6000 to $7250.


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## stillhunterman

wyogoob said:


> Grizzly bear tags will go from $6000 to $7250.


Don't forget goob, that's just the tag/license cost. You have to add the $1200 federal special stamp to the total: $8450 for a once in a lifetime cubbie.


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## wyogoob

stillhunterman said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grizzly bear tags will go from $6000 to $7250.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget goob, that's just the tag/license cost. You have to add the $1200 federal special stamp to the total: $8450 for a once in a lifetime cubbie.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The grizz tag doesn't come with small game/ fishing tag, so you'll have to buy one of them. Then you'll need the $15 Special Management permit and a $15 conservation stamp.

chump change


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## JERRY

I for one will not be paying $400 to $700 for a goat tag. Would love to hunt wyoming otherwise, but those prices put the hunt out of range for me. Looks like I will be losing my points. Terrible time for increases when most are struggling just to get by, and with the apparent increase for taxes in general.


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## 2full

+1 for me as well.
We used to go up and hit the speed goats, but won't be able to justify the costs.
had put a group together for this year, That's cancelled now.


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## tigerpincer

Well thats that I wont be hunting Wyoming any more after this year. No more putting in for tags, buying their licenses, staying in their hotels etc...... and everyone wonders why their are fewer hunters these days. The normal folks are being priced right out of the game. Its sucks that I ever even developed this love for hunting as the likely hood that I will probably have to give it up soon just gets greater and greater with every hike in fees.


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## Airborne

I don't think Wyoming will have a problem selling all their tags with those price increases--there is just too much demand. Honestly it is a great deal because most of their tags are rifle tags with the option of hunting archery for thirty dollars. You can hunt a whole month of archery then come back with a rifle and hunt another month or at least two weeks in most cases with your rifle. Colorado tags are cheaper but their rifle seasons are short and you only get one season. Wyoming is not so great if u are a back east guy who can only come out for a week anyways, but as a Utahn it's great-- hunt elk all of sept with your bow then come back in October with a gun and finish it up if need be, buy a reduced cow tag and just enjoy the heck out of it for two months. 

I just hope my two points will get me a general elk tag this year--I think a lot of guys are going to be cashing in points and you will see many areas drawing for more points than usual. This could work out for me, if many folks drop out in 2014 I may have a decent shot at drawing a general tag with no points. Best laid plans right


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## ridgetop

Well at least Wyoming doesn't have a bunch of conservation tags their selling to the wealthy for revenue.
At least there's more tags in the general pool for the people with more money to buy.
Wait, that's not very good.


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## gwailow

Maybe you all make a heck of a lot more money than me, or maybe I'm just too cheap....but I see no possible way this turns out good for Wyoming. Yes there is demand for the tags, however there is also something called a customers "gag limit". That's just basic econ. 700 bones for a speed goat is my gag limit for sure. I owuld dare bet most average Joe hunter's are in the same boat. Wyoming currently does not sell out of all their tags even with some folks taking a risk and buying mainly private property tags. I'm really doubting many are going to pull the trigger on a $700 tag for an undesirable or less desirable unit. The better units will probably have a huge amount of people still looking to hunt them, probably more than before...other units at 700 a clip, not thinking people are going to be quite as big of risk takers at over double the current price.


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## wyogoob

Maybe this will help:


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## wyogoob

Nonresident antelope will go to *$400* not $700. ($700 is for the special fee tag)

Prices for the popular antelope doe/fawn tags stay the same.

They haven't increased tag prices since 2008.

To avoid "sticker shock" licenses will be indexed annually, going up or down with the Cost of Living Index.

There will be Big Game license raffles, called "Super Raffle" at our Sportsman's Expo. (sound familiar)


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## wyogoob

Airborne said:


> ............................
> I just hope my two points will get me a general elk tag this year--I think a lot of guys are going to be cashing in points and you will see many areas drawing for more points than usual. This could work out for me, if many folks drop out in 2014 I may have a decent shot at drawing a general tag with no points. Best laid plans right


That's right. Some of my friends back east said they hope that with higher license prices enough people with points will back out and they will be moved up on the point list.


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## gdog

I'm cashing in my 6 points.......Goob.....get that antelope feed yard up and rolling, so there's at least a few left after winter.


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## wyogoob

tigerpincer said:


> Well thats that I wont be hunting Wyoming any more after this year. No more putting in for tags, buying their licenses, staying in their hotels etc...... and everyone wonders why their are fewer hunters these days. The normal folks are being priced right out of the game. Its sucks that I ever even developed this love for hunting as the likely hood that I will probably have to give it up soon just gets greater and greater with every hike in fees.


Hotels? I thought all the nonresidents just stayed at my place. 

Yes, hunting is getting expensive as is game management.

Ya know, the antelope hunt here is a kick, a great experience, and if it's getting too costly for mom or dad you can still put in for the kids. They can get an antelope tag with a small game and fishing license for $110. That's a pretty good deal.


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## wyogoob

gdog said:


> I'm cashing in my 6 points.......Goob.....get that antelope feed yard up and rolling, so there's at least a few left after winter.


I'm on it. We went out for a drive yesterday; so far, so good, keep your fingers crossed.


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## goofy elk

I'm still saying not that bad, could have been worse.

No change on youth ,antlerless tags or buying points is GREAT news...

Only a $75 increase in regular elk permits wont make much difference..

Non-res deer and antelope is for sure biggest impact!
Increasing $170 on regular deer will drive away hunters in region specific areas.(IMO)
BUT wont really effect guys going after LQ tags much..

The $130 increase for regular antelope will just make draw odds a little easier, (Better)..

THANKs for all the udates goob!


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## wyogoob

You're welcome Goofy. 

I should have put the chart up earlier in the thread.

Uh.....let me add that a Wyoming fishing license has little value. There are no fish in Wyoming with the exception of a few burbot in Flaming Gorge.


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## Beast

Goob.
So does it mean I get the small game/fishing license with a goat tag or have to buy one in addition? I get the fish license every year anyway, so if the sg/f license comes with the goat tag, thats only a $26 incress for me.
Thanks.


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## wyogoob

Beast said:


> Goob.
> So does it mean I get the small game/fishing license with a goat tag or have to buy one in addition? I get the fish license every year anyway, so if the sg/f license comes with the goat tag, thats only a $26 incress for me.
> Thanks.


The sg/f license comes with the goat tag.

Remember the sg/f tags are good from Jan 1 thru Dec 31. I assume the sg/f will be good to go as soon as you get the goat/sg/f license it in the mail.


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## .45

wyogoob said:


> Hotels? I thought all the nonresidents just stayed at my place.
> 
> Yes, hunting is getting expensive as is game management.
> 
> Ya know, the antelope hunt here is a kick, a great experience, and if it's getting too costly for mom or dad you can still put in for the kids. *They can get an antelope tag with a small game and fishing license for $110.* That's a pretty good deal.


That really is a good deal...did fishing license's go up in price? Last year, total, mine was 104 bucks but only run from Jan 1th to Dec. 31th, I wish that would change.


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## wyogoob

.45 said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hotels? I thought all the nonresidents just stayed at my place.
> 
> Yes, hunting is getting expensive as is game management.
> 
> Ya know, the antelope hunt here is a kick, a great experience, and if it's getting too costly for mom or dad you can still put in for the kids. *They can get an antelope tag with a small game and fishing license for $110.* That's a pretty good deal.
> 
> 
> 
> That really is a good deal...did fishing license's go up in price? Last year, total, mine was 104 bucks but only run from Jan 1th to Dec. 31th, I wish that would change.
Click to expand...

See the chart on page 4 for all the proposed increases.

As far as I know the licenses will remain on a calendar year basis.


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## Beast

Thats my next question. If I buy my sg/f license at the first of the year, will it be deducted from my app fee?


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## wyogoob

Beast said:


> Thats my next question. If I buy my sg/f license at the first of the year, will it be deducted from my app fee?


I would say "no", there's nothing in the proposed bill alluding to that. The nonresident sg/f license was added to the nonresident big game licenses to offset the "sticker shock" of the price increase.

I can ask at the Thursday meeting.


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## Beast

Thanks Goob!
I would be a good deal if you had the sg/f license for the whole year, and not just from the time the draw results come out. Thats only a half a year fish license. Or would you get the license when you apply?


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## wyogoob

no


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## Critter

Goob, I didn't see anything about the reduced fee for doe/fawn antelope on your chart. Do you know anything about it..


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## wyogoob

Critter said:


> Goob, I didn't see anything about the reduced fee for doe/fawn antelope on your chart. Do you know anything about it..


No change. It is on the chart, bottom of page.


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## silentstalker

So from what i can tell, if i draw antelope, deer, and elk, i would be paying for 3 small game/ fishing licenses? I like the idea of the small game license but not if i am buying it more than once a year.


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## svmoose

silentstalker said:


> So from what i can tell, if i draw antelope, deer, and elk, i would be paying for 3 small game/ fishing licenses? I like the idea of the small game license but not if i am buying it more than once a year.


It isn't that you are getting a small game/fishing license per say, rather the priviledges of fishing and hunting small game are now included with nonresident deer and antelope licenses. So you don't own multiple small game/fishing licenses you would own multiple licenses that had that attached priviledge. I bet you could go out and buy a small game and a fishing license if you felt so inclined, as it would be a license that you didn't already have.


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## silentstalker

Yeah i understand its not a seperate licence. My elk tag last year had fishing priviliges. Guess i will just do one species at a time.


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## wyogoob

ridgetop said:


> Well at least Wyoming doesn't have a bunch of conservation tags their selling to the wealthy for revenue.............................


The new Wyoming expo tag system, a different bill than the tag price increases, is out there too. It is another way for the Department to generate income and was part of the "package" supported by the outdoor groups I mentioned earlier.

I see where the local Trout Unlimited Chapter has a comissioner's elk tag. It will be raffled off at the April TU banquet.

I guess the thing has worked so well in Utah we thought we'd do it too. :O•-:


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## wyogoob

Sorry, but I didn't make the Game & Fish meeting last night, a close family friend passed away yesterday afternoon.


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## goofy elk

Sorry to hear that goob.

I understand there is a lot of talk of going to a 'points plan' for Wyo's res'es....


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> Sorry to hear that goob.
> 
> I understand there is a lot of talk of going to a 'points plan' for Wyo's res'es....


Got me, it's brought up at all the meetings I go to but gets promptly "tabled"

We already have preference points for the Limited Quota hunts elk, deer, moose, and sheep; none for antelope though, still the luck of the draw.

Never made any sense why residents didn't have antelope preference points. Many times nonresidents draw antelope tags quicker than residents do.


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## goofy elk

I believe there may be a bill going forward on this issue right now.?.?

In addition to the authority granted under
16 subsection (b) of this section, the commission may shall
2013 STATE OF WYOMING 13LSO-0149
2 SF0085
1 through rule and regulation develop and implement a
2 preference point program for resident and nonresident
3 antelope, resident and nonresident deer and resident and
4 nonresident elk licenses which are limited in quota and
5 would otherwise be issued through a random drawing.

Here's a link to were its being talked about at lenghth:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... /2499.html

Bet you know some of these guys :!:


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> I believe there may be a bill going forward on this issue right now.?.?
> 
> In addition to the authority granted under
> 16 subsection (b) of this section, the commission may shall
> 2013 STATE OF WYOMING 13LSO-0149
> 2 SF0085
> 1 through rule and regulation develop and implement a
> 2 preference point program for resident and nonresident
> 3 antelope, resident and nonresident deer and resident and
> 4 nonresident elk licenses which are limited in quota and
> 5 would otherwise be issued through a random drawing.
> 
> Here's a link to were its being talked about at lenghth:
> http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... /2499.html
> 
> Bet you know some of these guys :!:


I heard a rumor about a bill but hadn't seen anything in print. I'm glad to see that the Department is finally listening to us about resident antelope preference points.

The Monster Muley stuff was interesting, thanks.

Man, I wish I could have made the meeting last night. Maybe I can get a run down on what went on.


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## Dahlmer

Goob,

Has the legislature voted on the price increases yet?


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## wyogoob

Dahlmer said:


> Goob,
> 
> Has the legislature voted on the price increases yet?


No. The WY House is working on 210 bills. This bill, if passed, won't take effect until Jan 1 2014. So my guess is there's no hurry.

I know the outdoor groups pushing the fee increases are still actively soliciting support.

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/billin ... x?type=ALL


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## goofy elk

OMG goob, MORE stuff! HB124, being heard today.?.?
Allowing the transfer of PP to an immediate family member...

As written this bill allows anyone, for any reason to pass their points on to a family member:

(m) The holder of any valid big game preference
10 points may, once in the holder's lifetime, apply in writing
11 to the department to transfer his currently accumulated
12 preference points for one (1) or more species to a
13 specified recipient who is an immediate family member in a
14 format as established by commission rule and regulation.
15 Any preference points transferred in accordance with the
16 provisions of this subsection shall be for the same species
17 as the preference points donated and shall be transferred
18 to a recipient with the same residency status as the
19 donating person. The preference points shall be
20 transferred by the department to the specified recipient
21 for a fee of thirty-five dollars ($35.00) per species. Any
22 preference points donated and transferred under the
23 provisions of this subsection shall not be sold, purchased,
24 traded, auctioned or offered for any monetary value and
2013 STATE OF WYOMING 13LSO-0352
5 HB0124
1 shall not be issued to, or used by, any person other than
2 the specified recipient. Preference points transferred to
3 a recipient shall be subject to all other limitations and
4 restrictions on preference points as if the recipient
5 earned the preference points as otherwise provided by law.
6 For purposes of this subsection, "immediate family member"
7 means a spouse, child or stepchild.

Just when I'm ready to use my Max Wyo PP they do this...
Makes me wonder if I would rather watch my 2 boys pull the trigger :?: 
If passed, I could transfer my elk PPs to my 9 year old when he turns 12.
Let him kill a BIG bull right out of the gate :!:

Give my max deer points to my 15 year old , give him a GREAT deer hunt in 102.

This will be a tough one for me if this bill passes -Ov-


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## wyogoob

HB124 is a good thing IMO. I think it will pass.


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## Packout

I think any type of point transfer will just lead to abuses. 

As a non-resident, I have max deer points -7- and my son has 2 deer points. I can transfer my points to him and he now has 9 deer points and can most likely draw any tag in the state. But I am sure some man has 7 points and his wife has 7 points and he can get hers to have a total of 14 points and now he can get any tag in the state. 

All these scenarios are great for the one person and poor for the masses. It probably came from an old man who can't get around anymore and wants to transfer his sheep/moose points to his adult child. Or a man who has 12 sheep points and his wife has 10-- so now he can have 22-- guaranteed tag. Just looks like a can of worms to me.


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## goofy elk

I had the exact same thought Packout,
My wife and oldest boy has points, if I transferred mine we would have that scenario....

IF THIS HAPPENED, I could transfer my 7 (soon to be eight) elk points to my 15 year
old's 6,,would have 14 points going into 2014, may be a guaranteed elk tag in unit 31.


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## wyogoob

Packout said:


> I think any type of point transfer will just lead to abuses.
> 
> As a non-resident, I have max deer points -7- and my son has 2 deer points. I can transfer my points to him and he now has 9 deer points and can most likely draw any tag in the state. But I am sure some man has 7 points and his wife has 7 points and he can get hers to have a total of 14 points and now he can get any tag in the state.
> 
> All these scenarios are great for the one person and poor for the masses. It probably came from an old man who can't get around anymore and wants to transfer his sheep/moose points to his adult child. Or a man who has 12 sheep points and his wife has 10-- so now he can have 22-- guaranteed tag.
> 
> That's not the way I read it. You could have 17 points only, not 22. I think 17 is the max points for sheep now.
> 
> See:
> Preference points transferred to
> 3 a recipient shall be subject to all other limitations and
> 4 restrictions on preference points as if the recipient
> 5 earned the preference points as otherwise provided by law.
> 
> Just looks like a can of worms to me.


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## wyogoob

I have 16 sheep points, one short of the highest point number you can have. There's a real good chance I can get a tag in 2030 or maybe even 2029. I am 61 years old, screw that.

If this passes I give one of my kids my points.

Our family of 5 has been putting in for sheep tags, one way or another, since 1982; probably 75 applications and still haven't got a sheep tag yet.


Ooh, cool, top of page!


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## goofy elk

HB124 is a NO GO....

Here's the link , 29 replies , from MM Wyoming:

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... /2511.html


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> HB124 is a NO GO....
> 
> Here's the link , 29 replies , from MM Wyoming:
> 
> http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... /2511.html


Hey thanks.

Good really, the thing could stand a re-write.

One thing is for sure, they have to do something about the creep in the preference points for Wyoming sheep and moose. I might get in when I'm 80 years old but the young kids don't have a chance.


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## wyogoob

Boy, I was wrong. 

I didn't look to see who was on the committee. The thing wouldn't have a chance with them people.


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## wyogoob

It's not like Wyoming doesn't have the money to help the Game & Fish out.

see: see: http://news.msn.com/politics/as-washing ... aves/?gt1=
_Wyoming perennially gets ranked near the top among the nation's best-managed states. The nation's least populous state with just over 560,000 people, it has virtually no debt and roughly $16 billion in various savings accounts, many of which are inviolate under the state Constitution. It's set to finish the current fiscal year with another $1.6 billion in its "rainy day fund."_


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## itchytriggerfinger

So did the increase pass or not? I've heard it piggy backed a different bill and made it through. Is there any truth to the rumor?


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## wyogoob

itchytriggerfinger said:


> So did the increase pass or not? I've heard it piggy backed a different bill and made it through. Is there any truth to the rumor?


It did not pass. The bill was introduced three times and was voted down each time.

There is a whole thread about it here: viewtopic.php?f=73&t=49545


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## wyogoob

Facing increasing costs and the inability to raise license fees, the Wyoming G&F is proposing a 6.5% reduction to their 2014 budget. These cuts are in addition to the 3% cuts taken in 2013.

"Fish stocking could be reduced by as much as 20%" says a spokesman for the G&F.

Big game licenses will continue, in my opinion, to be oversold relative to herd size.

Note that Wyoming had a budget surplus of over $100 million for 2012. http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/201 ... -27-12.txt


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