# What can our forum community do?



## TargetProne (Sep 24, 2007)

With so many of us who hunt and fish brought to one spot, what is a project, contest, or way we can as a forum bring ourselves together to help some of our big game, waterfowl, or upland game here in Utah?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Education.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

The United Wildlife Coop sponsors a lot of projects that seem to hit on the topics you mentioned.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

You mean they used to.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

TargetProne said:


> With so many of us who hunt and fish brought to one spot, what is a project, contest, or way we can as a forum bring ourselves together to help some of our big game, waterfowl, or upland game here in Utah?


The waterfowl community does a pretty good job of coordinating activities and events. The recent youth fair at Farmington Bay is a great example, organizing when to go spray phrag, the youth hunt coming up, the calling circuit, it seems like the most successful way has been to get the project owners involved in this forum and people will show up and help.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Greenhead_Slayer said:


> The waterfowl community does a pretty good job of coordinating activities and events. The recent youth fair at Farmington Bay is a great example, organizing when to go spray phrag, the youth hunt coming up, the calling circuit, it seems like the most successful way has been to get the project owners involved in this forum and people will show up and help.


Let me preface this with "I'm about to be a real prick". Spraying phrag has been shown to not be effective, and the fall out from all the Glyphosate use may well end up starving ducks. Youth hunts don't do anything for wildlife directly, though hunter/conservation recruitment is a good goal. And finally, calling does nothing for the wildlife either. A lot of the wildlife conservation movement has degraded to not much more than self serving huntn' and fishn' clubs.

So back to the original question, of what we can do as a community? Education! The biggest problem with modern conservation, is that it has been hyjacked, and corrupted for the last 30 years, to the point no one even knows where to start. By in large, sportsmen are no longer conservationists, this is unsustainable. As long as we ignore, and continue to neglect, the progressive roots of the conservation movement, we ignore our future as sportsmen also. Going through the motions, will not get us anywhere. Look around, it is what got us here.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

You don't need to preface your posts. We know everything you open you mouth you're being "a real prick"


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Oh good, I was worried. Sometimes things don't come across as intended on the internet.

Going after me is easy, I made it that way. Try going after the message, thoughts, and concepts.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Let me preface this with "I'm about to be a real prick". Spraying phrag has been shown to not be effective, and the fall out from all the Glyphosate use may well end up starving ducks. Youth hunts don't do anything for wildlife directly, though hunter/conservation recruitment is a good goal. And finally, calling does nothing for the wildlife either. A lot of the wildlife conservation movement has degraded to not much more than self serving huntn' and fishn' clubs.
> 
> So back to the original question, of what we can do as a community? Education! The biggest problem with modern conservation, is that it has been hyjacked, and corrupted for the last 30 years, to the point no one even knows where to start. By in large, sportsmen are no longer conservationists, this is unsustainable. As long as we ignore, and continue to neglect, the progressive roots of the conservation movement, we ignore our future as sportsmen also. Going through the motions, will not get us anywhere. Look around, it is what got us here.


Phrag control doesn't help waterfowl? Get real. The waterfowl forum also has helped organized planting vegetation on the newly created islands at Salt Creek. Wood duck boxes have been coordinated as well as nesting platforms. Maybe nesting and habitat restoration and improvement doesn't qualify as education in your eyes though. Every single one of those activities provides an education in a round about way that can contribute directly to help waterfowl.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Greenhead_Slayer said:


> Phrag control doesn't help waterfowl? Get real. The waterfowl forum also has helped organized planting vegetation on the newly created islands at Salt Creek. Wood duck boxes have been coordinated as well as nesting platforms. Maybe nesting and habitat restoration and improvement doesn't qualify as education in your eyes though. Every single one of those activities provides an education in a round about way that can contribute directly to help waterfowl.


I will give you everything you mentioned, with kudos, except phrag spraying. The science is not there. It was tried long before Utah did it, it creates a bigger problem.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> I will give you everything you mentioned, with kudos, except phrag spraying. The science is not there. It was tried long before Utah did it, it creates a bigger problem.


Sources?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

It is out there. I can look it up tonight. Or you can do some homework yourself, and read all the studies. Think about this. Phrag started to increase 30 years ago(not just on the GSL), deer started declining, bighorns declined, pine beetles increased, amphibians declined, and the waves of increase and decline, all coincide, like an unnatural rhythm. So when you spray phrag, does it come back? Is it a short term, band aid on a much bigger problem? Would finding the cause of phrag infestations be a better use of resources, with actual long term sustainability in mind?


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> It is out there. I can look it up tonight. Or you can do some homework yourself, and read all the studies. Think about this. Phrag started to increase 30 years ago(not just on the GSL), deer started declining, bighorns declined, pine beetles increased, amphibians declined, and the waves of increase and decline, all coincide, like an unnatural rhythm. So when you spray phrag, does it come back? Is it a short term, band aid on a much bigger problem? Would finding the cause of phrag infestations be a better use of resources, with actual long term sustainability in mind?


I don't think anyone would argue that having to constantly spray, burn, and fluctuate water levels is the long term solution. Hopefully the real cause of the phrag infestations can be determined and squashed. Until that ideal is reached it seems like something needs to be done. Just because the waves of increase/decrease are going on isn't an excuse to be passive about the issue at hand.

I've had the opportunity to try and battle some of this crap on some property and seen awesome results (verified bird counts, not just ducks and geese but waterfowl and shorebirds as a whole, return of native vegetation) from having to spray, burn, and fluctuate water levels. I'd love to not have to spend so much time and labor focusing on those three band aids and find the root source and fix the problem there. The haters of phrag would all love that. Unfortunately the average Joe isn't in a situation to make that happen. Fingers crossed they can find a solution with long term sustainability in mind.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

All of my ranting and raving, and pissing people off, is to make the point about short sighted, short term solutions. We can keep spraying poison on the marshes, transplanting deer, shooting coyotes, implementing social engineering for hunters, etc. And while yes, we are doing something, there is no meaning to that something, it is hollow. The long term trends, look no better than than they did 20 years ago. There is no hoping that "they" figure it out. It is our responsibility as hunters to make the paradigm shift, and demand better of ourselves, and our wildlife managers. It starts with us, and it may end with us as well.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Awareness!!!!
The John Q Public doesn't care about wildlife of waterfowl. They complain when they hit a deer in their driveway after they built a house in the DEER'S backyard. We as sportsman don't have the media pull that the activist have. They spred lies about all kind of studies and statistics through some famous dumb ass. People care more about the newest sex tape or YouTube video that anything that has to due with nature and hunting. Until we can get rid of the wacko's that actually give hunting a bad name and get more exposure about these issues and what problems they actually cause we will continue to take the back seat. 

Another problem is don't think a senator or congressmen is going to change anything. They come and go and when push comes to shove they will all stab us in the back. 

Right now with the popularity of duck dynasty they could use that show to inform the public of problems in the marsh. But the producers would never let it happen. So we can just watch willy sit on the ****ter for a half hour. 

Maybe we need Tiffany from the crush to put out a sex tape. That would get some attention.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Can I get an amen? can I get a hallelujah? I think I feel the spirit coming on, oh **** is that Nat Turner?


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

*Awareness. Education. Activism. Perseverance.*

Awareness. Education. Activism. Perseverance.

It's a tough row to hoe. I often wonder if hunters and fishers are capable of mustering the cohesiveness necessary to take this from start to finish, if there ever is a finish...

I'm not too worried about the first and last words this post started with: hunters and fishers seem to have an ingrained ability of acute _awareness_, and certainly many of us know what it is to _perceiver_ and triumph in the field and on the stream. It's the *education* and *activism* that worries me... :?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Activism for sure. I know some very sharp folks, but getting them to speak up is near impossible. Only reason some keep me around ;-)


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