# Fly Fishing Notes (a summary)



## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

I've picked up fly fishing this past year and taught myself mostly. I recently watched three DVD's presented by Doug Swisher and Scientific Anglers, some old classics. To make the information easily accessible to me because I know I wouldn't remember everything from watching the DVD's once, I took notes and printed the information and folded it up to be stuck in my vest pocket. I've also found that in my searches online to begin it was hard to find all the basic info needed in one spot.  So here is my basic summary of the 3 DVD's (basic casting, advanced casting, and selective trout)

EDIT: additional forum member contributions below.

*Casting Basics*
•	Snap the wrist in a straight line. The quicker the snap, the tighter the loop
•	Small tight loops
•	Small arc - straight lines
•	Rod tip controls the line
•	Loose / relaxed grip

*Straight Line Cast*
•	Pickup & Lay-Down Cast

*Slack Line Cast*
•	Throw a wide loop
•	Drop the rod tip
•	For down-stream throw high lots of slack

*Advanced Casting*
*Reach Cast*
•	Straight line cast, then reach one direction with rod tip

*Curve Cast*
•	Hook it and stop the cast short

*Roll Cast*
•	Don't use arm, use more wrist
o	Roll Pick-Up - Use to change direction quickly & dry flies

*Steeple Cast*
•	Back cast high, use shooting
*Double Haul*
*Squiggle Cast*

*Wet Flies/Nymphs, Streamers, and Dry Flies*
*Hatch =* Fish rising,* No Hatch = *Fish feeding under water (fish are wary and skittish)
*Reading The Water*
•	Shelter
•	Seams (fast water meets slow)
•	Color change to dark
•	Depth, shallow to deep
*Nymphing (Along the bottom)*
•	Check speed and depth
*Streamers (Across currents)*
•	Colors - match the stream bottom
o	Matuka - Fished faster
o	Woolly Bugger - Fished slower and deeper
o	Aztec - Any speed
•	Usually fished with straight line cast and stripping

*Dry Flies (On the surface)*
*The Rise*
•	Cardinal rule - almost always happens at the most pleasant time of time (e.g. midday spring, morning and evenings summer, midday fall)

*Major Types *
1.	Mayfly Duns - big sailboat wings
a.	Mayfly Spinners
2.	Stone Fly - 2 Flat wings, clumsy flyers
3.	Caddis - Moth like
4.	Midge - Small wings, small or no tail
5. Terrestrials (hoppers, crickets, cicadas, ant's etc)

Provo River hatch chart (thank you flyguy7)
http://parkcityanglers.com/images/12-10-09/hatchchart.jpg


flyguy7 said:


> The weber will be nearly identical because of similarities in size, proximity, flow regime, elevation, and bottom substrate. The key main differences will be a lack of golden stones and green drakes, Pmd's play a less significant role later in the summer, and in general caddis play more of a role on the weber while mayflies play less of a role.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, that's a good start. The real knowledge comes from spending hours on your favorite water. It is much more satisfying than sitting on the couch watching DVD's too.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Ya just basic notes in case there is anybody else out there looking to get started


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Nice list. Thank you for sharing it.
I know that it will be a big help to members that are just getting into fly fishing.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

I disagree 247, a good foundation of fundamental skill sets will maximize the learning curve for all anglers on the water. Odds are if you were to pull aside 10 random anglers on any given river 7 out of ten couldn't execute a proper double haul and 9 out of ten couldn't execute a proper down and across slack line reach cast.

They may be old (if I remember correctly swisher is rockin' old school blue Neo. Waders), but the techniques are very well explained and demonstrated. Good job on posting. Those old S.A. videos are a great resource for all anglers of all abilities.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> I disagree 247, a good foundation of fundamental skill sets will maximize the learning curve for all anglers on the water. Odds are if you were to pull aside 10 random anglers on any given river 7 out of ten couldn't execute a proper double haul and 9 out of ten couldn't execute a proper down and across slack line reach cast.


Disagree huh, did you not read the first sentence, "Yeah, that's a good start"? Let me expound on the meaning. drsx, that is an outstanding summary of what you have learned and a great foundation for anyone starting out flyfishing. Thanks for sharing.

But as I said, it is just a start. It will teach someone HOW to fish, not necessarily how to CATCH more fish. To be more successful on a particular water, you need to spend the time fishing it. You can memorize the Utah hatch chart, and while it is a useful tool, it does not tell you everything. It is the same reason "experienced" flyfishermen pay you FlyGuy7 to guide them on the Provo. They are well aware of the basics, but they haven't put the time into the water to fish it successfully. No two waters are alike and even two rivers that are fairly close to each other (i.e. Diamond Fork and Thistle) and even if they are fished during the same time of year, they require two completely different patterns. You would not learn this if you didn't put the time in or fish with someone who had.

I have read a couple books, but are by no means a technical expert, but I guarantee you I can outfish 90% of the flyfishermen on the waters I frequent. I am not bragging, just pointing out that time on the water will teach you things that books cannot. Otherwise, there would be little need for guide services.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I agree with you 100% that there is no replacement for on the water experience. Just like watching baseball or football or NASCAR on TV doesn't make you a athlete or pro driver. I also believe your point about all bodies of water being different being different is spot on. Working in a Flyshop for several years you meet many people who become comfortable fishing one spot and will only go to those one or two rivers to fish. Sometimes only a one or two hundred yard stretch of those rivers. We call this nesting. Some anglers will have success in a certain area so when they fish, they will only fish there because it is were they feel they can regularly catch fish. (I.e. secret spot, or lucky hole or money water, etc.) As we both agree, learning to fish a myriad of types of water and rivers will "unhook the training wheels" so to speak and allow an angler a diversified skill set that will allow them to explore new water and have a successful day on the water no matter where they fish.

My point I was getting at is that GOOD instructional videos are a great reference for anglers of all abilities, not just beginners. Any fly fisherman is capable of forming bad habits. Lets use casting a tailing loop for an example. Most beginners do not cast tailing loops because they haven't formed the casting abilities to cast tight loops. Intermediate anglers are the ones who most commonly do this because they have the mechanics to cast a fair amount of line and generate tighter loops. The tailer is caused from a small glitch in that cast. Whether it be overpowering the rod, forward creep (sneaking up on the cast), or breaking your wrist; these are SMALL things that can cause a tailing loop and a quick reference to a video can make that light go off and say, "****, THAT'S what I was doing!" Definitely good points and advice there, 247.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Gentlemen let us not get side tracked. The point of the thread is simply to put some good solid information in one place for any one with questions. It goes without saying to better understand your water of choice you need to go spend some time there. But I urge all beginners to master this information here.

Also any one have a online link to utah"s hatch chart? Id like to post it here with my original post. Also any other solid links or tools please post them and ill include in my original post. Maybe we can make this a sticky, a beginners guide to fly fishing.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Sorry drsx, didn't mean to hijack the thread a bit. I will try and dig up some info to post here for ya.

Touché flyguy7, I struggle sometimes internet communication. I apologize if I came off a little defensive in my last post. You make some very valid points. When I fished a lot on the Provo a few years back, I saw the same guy arrive at the same time and fish the same hole every Sunday. He was content with it and had no intention of exploring any futher. The Provo is infamous for "Nesting".

Also your point about recommending videos for all levels of ability, I totally agree. I have been flyfishing for over 20 years and I still have to work on bad habits developed when I was first starting. As an observer, it is easy to pinpoint casting probelms with others, as I do on occasion with my wife (though she is quick to remind me she doesn't like it). It is harder when you are trying to correct yourself. Developing proper technique early on will pay of with less work and pain in the future. Lefty Kreh has a couple good books I have sitting next to the John at home that I open from time to time for a little refresher.

Once again, good thread drsx, I will try and dig up some links/materials to post up.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

That's a pretty good start to the academic side of fly fishing. And, I'll echo what has been said about the necessity of having a good technical knowledge... it's important if you're serious about fly fishing, but it's just a start. Time on the water is where you become a great fisher. 

Having said that, another FREE resource that I have use quite often is typing Mel Krieger into Youtube. He's old school but a legend in fly casting, and his video, "The Essence of Fly Casting" is on there in various snippets.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Here's one I put together specific to the provo. http://parkcityanglers.com/images/12-10 ... hchart.jpg. a state wide hatch chart would be too broad as every place is different.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Fantastic, ill add that to the original post. That's an awesome chart. Know of, or any one have one for the Weeb?


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

The weber will be nearly identical because of similarities in size, proximity, flow regime, elevation, and bottom substrate. The key main differences will be a lack of golden stones and green drakes, Pmd's play a less significant role later in the summer, and in general caddis play more of a role on the weber while mayflies play less of a role.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Perfect thanks. Also noted above.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Most of the fish around here are hungry stunted and more than willing to give you action. The biggest problem to getting into fish, is fishing an area where someone has already waded through and put the fish down for about 7 minutes (according to LaFontaine that's the amount of time it takes to rest a feeding fish). I have fished the middle Provo and Logan rivers and had anglers tell me that I needed a caddis to get regular hits. I plopped my hopper in and caught or had a hit on almost every cast. I can catch trout on most watrs around the Wasatch front from about mid June to end of November throwing a hopper. It's fun to make it into rocket science for a lot of people.

I've never had to double-haul on any Wasatch front river. I did have one trout surface and tell me that he wouldn't eat my fly because I didn't double-haul, but I just laughed and moved to the next hole and caught his cousin.


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## jwalker (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks for the notes, it was very helpful. I'm picking up fly fishing this year. I've gone once before and loved it. This post will be a good reference for me.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

You can look at it as simplistic or complex as you want highndry. That's one of the great things about fly fishing. Its not like golf. You don't have to stay in certain areas, limit your casts, etc.. But, the more you learn and more techniques you develtime over time the better, more rounded angler you will become. Using the double haul is a prime example. No, on most streams around here you don't need that cast to be successful all the time. But, there are circumstances where it is highly advantageous. If you fish in the wind, fish reservoirs, throw big wind resistant streamers or dries, fish larger rivers up north, fish for steelhead or saltwater flats. These are places or instances where this one single cast will GREATLY improve your success on the water. If you're not doing any of the above then yes, you can have successful day after day without it. No problems. But once someone learns to double haul, they will become a better all around caster by leaps and bounds.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Amen


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

flyguy7 said:


> You can look at it as simplistic or complex as you want highndry. That's one of the great things about fly fishing. Its not like golf. You don't have to stay in certain areas, limit your casts, etc.. But, the more you learn and more techniques you develtime over time the better, more rounded angler you will become. Using the double haul is a prime example. No, on most streams around here you don't need that cast to be successful all the time. But, there are circumstances where it is highly advantageous. If you fish in the wind, fish reservoirs, throw big wind resistant streamers or dries, fish larger rivers up north, fish for steelhead or saltwater flats. These are places or instances where this one single cast will GREATLY improve your success on the water. If you're not doing any of the above then yes, you can have successful day after day without it. No problems. But once someone learns to double haul, they will become a better all around caster by leaps and bounds.


+1

I'd say that 80% of the fishing I've done on the Wasatch front could be handled by very simple techniques that any beginner could master in a couple of hours with patterns that wouldn't make the "pretty enough" grade to be sold at a fly shop. For those situations, it's not rocket science.

However, I don't want to limit myself to calm or mildly windy days on the Wasatch front. The casts that require more skill might not be an everyday necessity but I've used every cast that drsx listed on his original post on the Provo, and I'm glad that I know how to execute them when I need to. I'd rather practice and become proficient before I actually need the skill, and that can be done on any river at any time. When the conditions are easy is the best time to practice a new skill. Besides, Unlike HND's experience, I've never had a fish turn down a fly because I was practicing the double haul on the cast. So, maybe the lesson to learn is to always use the most complex method you can...


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Great posts guys, thanks for the participation. I'm in agreement with the last two posts........ good or bad when I start something new I become very intense and I always have to "master" it for me its not enough to just be "good enough" to get by I want to be able to hang wherever I might be. So ill continue practicing the technical side and as others have stated spending more and more time on various waters acquiring the hands on experience.  FYI I'm pretty damned good, and it was pretty quick too. I can attribute that to my preparation.


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

Good list of info. You are missing one MAJOR type of bug on your dry list. Terrestrials. (hoppers, crickets, cicadas, ant's etc). They can pretty much be exclusively fished with from summer to fall with great results. Good luck, you are well on your way.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

RnF said:


> Good list of info. You are missing one MAJOR type of bug on your dry list. Terrestrials. (hoppers, crickets, cicadas, ant's etc). They can pretty much be exclusively fished with from summer to fall with great results. Good luck, you are well on your way.


Good point, i'll add that.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I've been FF'n for 41 years. I went through all the metamorphosis that a fly angler goes through: just wanting to catch a fish, wanting to catch a bunch, wanting to catch a big one, wanting to catch a bunch of big ones, wanting to be the longest caster, wanting to be the best fly tier, wanting to throw some curves, double hauling, roll casting, to hanging out with Gary Lafontaine in the day. What I loved about Gary was his ability to see through all the BS and then make fun of it by showing how gullible fly fishermen and fly tiers can be. He was just as good at catching fly fishers as he was at catching fish. One day we talked about guides and he said, paraphrasing, "The worst guides in fly fishing are those who take a beginner or semi-accomplished angler out and try to convince them of how technical fly fishing is, and how you will never master it, and it is an art and a lifestyle." He winked and said, there is more BS in fly fishing than almost any other rereational pursuit and those who perpetuate the myths and the technical BS are hurting the sport more than they realize. Over a lifetime of learning it is great, but giving too much info at the beginning is detrimental.

Anyway, the bottom line is I settled into what I really enjoy about the pursuit of trout for me, and plan on spending my time concentrating on the aspects that I find most rewarding.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> I've been FF'n for 41 years. I went through all the metamorphosis that a fly angler goes through: just wanting to catch a fish, wanting to catch a bunch, wanting to catch a big one, wanting to catch a bunch of big ones, wanting to be the longest caster, wanting to be the best fly tier, wanting to throw some curves, double hauling, roll casting, to hanging out with Gary Lafontaine in the day. What I loved about Gary was his ability to see through all the BS and then make fun of it by showing how gullible fly fishermen and fly tiers can be. He was just as good at catching fly fishers as he was at catching fish. One day we talked about guides and he said, paraphrasing, "The worst guides in fly fishing are those who take a beginner or semi-accomplished angler out and try to convince them of how technical fly fishing is, and how you will never master it, and it is an art and a lifestyle." He winked and said, there is more BS in fly fishing than almost any other rereational pursuit and those who perpetuate the myths and the technical BS are hurting the sport more than they realize. Over a lifetime of learning it is great, but giving too much info at the beginning is detrimental.
> 
> Anyway, the bottom line is I settled into what I really enjoy about the pursuit of trout for me, and plan on spending my time concentrating on the aspects that I find most rewarding.


Great post!


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Here is a good video demonstrating the double haul cast mentioned by Flyguy7.


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## jwalker (Jan 3, 2012)

I was looking at fly casting videos on youtube to find some decent visual resources to learn on. (it's pretty hit and miss on youtube.) I thought this guy did a really good job at explaining casting. I'm kind of a slow guy sometimes, but I thought this video series was cut and clear with good advice.


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