# Thinking out loud



## gregkdc (May 19, 2008)

This year I didn’t get my elk, but had the opportunity presented itself I would have shot him with a 180 grain Hornady interlock from a .30-06. I chose this load because I wanted a single round that would be good for both deer and elk. 
The problem is that while out shooting the other day I realized that I have developed a flinch. I have shot this gun enough times that I now know when it is going to go off. I don’t jerk or have any wild movements while shooting, but I squint my eye just a bit and it has caused my groups to be about 2-3” at 100 yards. If I force myself and don’t squint I can shoot a .75” group, the problem is that it hurts my shoulder to where I don’t want to shoot anymore. 
Anyway I want to develop another lighter load that will work for both deer and elk and want to hear what the experts think. Obviously this limits my bullets choices if I am going to shoot an elk with a light bullet so I am leaning toward either Barnes or Hornady gmx type bullets. Also my gun shoots best with the bullet close to the lands and it has quit a bit of jump so a longer bullet is beneficial.
My question is if you are shooting Hornady bullets how light could you go with a .30-06 and still be ethical when killing an elk? Would a 130 grain bullet work? I just don’t know how far these bullets penetrate. I keep reading about people that had bad experiences with either Hornady gmx or Barnes in traditional weights (165-180 grain) doing a complete pass through and little damage. If that is the case wouldn’t it be better to go with a lighter bullet, or do these bullets behave differently? It makes sense that a lead bullet that is shedding weight as it plows through an animal needs a higher sectional density and longer shank to retain weight, but if a Barnes bullet retains all of its weight anyways do the same rules apply? You definitely get the velocity advantage with the lower weight bullet. 
I am assuming that there must be a reason why you don’t see more people shooting light monolithic bullets, or is it just tradition? One disadvantage is the lower ballistics coefficient and a more rapid drop in energy, but I am not concerned about this because I doubt I would ever shoot at animal past 300 yards.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

If I force myself and don’t squint I can shoot a .75” group, the problem is that it hurts my shoulder to where I don’t want to shoot anymore. 

install a muzzle brake and keep shooting the same bullet practice on your shooting


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> If I force myself and don't squint I can shoot a .75" group, the problem is that it hurts my shoulder to where I don't want to shoot anymore.
> 
> install a muzzle brake and keep shooting the same bullet practice on your shooting


+1 and perhaps a better recoil pad.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

You can also try changing to a better butt pad like Limbsaver, it makes a big difference. 

A muzzle brake is also another option, but personally, I hate the things. They give me a headache, and if I shoot without earplugs and muffs my ears ring for days.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Have used a 130 Speer in my 270 for years. My dad used it before that. It will bring down an elk.


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## gregkdc (May 19, 2008)

A muzzle break is a viable option but they always seem to make me jump because of how loud they are, now a decent but pad sounds good.

Nobody likes the idea of shooting a lighter than normal bullet even if it a solid one like a Barnes or GMX?


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Personally I would investigate the recoil pad first. There are some wonderful pads out there. I was surprised how my 300 win mag felt with just the pad that came from remington. I was all geared up to put a break on it but changed my mind after shooting it with this newer recoil pad. To me it did not feel much different then my '06.

Are you hand loading? What do you have it loaded to?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you go with a muzzle brake find one that you can take on and off. My 340 Weatherby has one that when you take it off you replace it with a threaded cap so that you don't hurt the threads. With it on the recoil of the 340 is less than a mild 30-06 load.


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## gregkdc (May 19, 2008)

Huntoholic said:


> Are you hand loading? What do you have it loaded to?


I am at work so I don't have my notes but I would use around 49 grains of H380 or 47 grains of IMR 4064 with the 180 grain hornady interlock touching the lands. Anymore powder than that and the primers started to flatten out so that is where I kept it.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

gregkdc said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > Are you hand loading? What do you have it loaded to?
> ...


I was just trying to get a feel as to what you shoot compared to what I shoot.

Wouldn't change the load and I'm back to look at trying a better recoil pad first.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Like others have said- look at a new recoil pad first. I really like how Barnes bullets perform... you could load a 165 or 168 TSX and that would be plenty for both deer and elk.


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## Chuck (Mar 28, 2012)

get a .308, that's what I did, had the same problem as you described. Now problem solved, sub moa 5 shot groups all day.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Upgrade the recoil pad, and forget about a muzzle break. 90% of flinches are caused by muzzle blast, NOT felt recoil. The load that you describe in your '06 should develop around 18-20 lbs of free recoil. About half of a good waterfowl load in a twelve gage. Get off of the bench, and go shoot jack rabbits (or rocks) with your hunting rifle. Oh, and wear your ear plugs. The noise is what causes flinches.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

I have a Past Recoil Shield (the big fat one) for bench shooting, and almost always use double hearing protection now days. A lot of plinking with a .22 helps cure a flinch, I've had one off and on since my hard core Skeet shooting days.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

+8 on the recoil pad!


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## gregkdc (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for the input I have a recoil pad on the gun but it is nothing special and just what i came with from the factory. I will go look at those limbsaver or sorbothane but pads.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

+1 on the PAST recoil shield for bench work. Its fairly thick so I find it messes with my LOP on longer rifles, but its sure better than getting beat up. Makes my 7STW really mild to shoot.


-DallanC


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