# Big Coyotes feeding on Big Game in Diamond Fork



## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Local rancher flying to locate his cows reports seeing a large black Big Coyote and a smaller lighter colored Big Coyote. DWR officials have been notified and were reported on seen today investigating reports and observation of tracks in the Diamond Fork Canyon. Since last November reports have been trickling in about reported sightings of Big Coyotes in this area.

Attached is a picture taken today of what is believed to be Big Coyote tracks taken by a water agency employee taking water samples in Diamond Fork. The picture shows only a small number of tracks that are found in the area and it presumed that a pack has been established in the Diamond Fork area. 

Just passing on information from credible sources to inquiring minds on the UWF.
Big


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Yup, That's a big 'dog' track alright....

The elk have changed their patterns dramatically on Strawberry ridge area over
the past 2 years or so,,,,,,,,,,coincidence?.......

That was one of my favorite spot to guide elk for many years,,sad to see this happening.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

The sad part is that thos Big Coyotes are outside of the delisted zone. There is no justification for any type of killing. With numerous reports over the past year or so and now a credible source reporting them, there will be no opportunity for the SSS crowd. Too many eyes will be on the mountain. It's a sad thing that's happening.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Could they be hound tracks by chance? A lot of guys run hounds up there this time of year, though Big Coyotes in the area wouldn't surprise me. 

I try to get up in that area a few times a winter to try and put a dent in the coyotes up there. You would be amazed in the amount of dogs up there and how many deer carcasses you come across that have met their demise by them. The last thing we need is woofs up there adding to the carnage.

With the amount of big game that winter in the area, I would hope the DWR would be doing some of their own predator control up there, anyone know of any?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm glad I finally know why all the elk are disappearing from Diamond Fork. This is bad news for sure. Hopefully the DWR takes some sort of action quickly.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

uh oh...... you posted this in the big game section, when this doesnt have anything to do with big game! it should have gone in "other kinds of animals". Peterson is gonna be pissed at you


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

This is a MAJOR issue affecting elk.....

There's no BS about it.........

The elk on Teat mountain, Billies, Tie Fork, and ALL the Waters has scattered
from hell to breakfast and are no where to be found.
This is a HUGE big game topic...

I would love to hear Airborns take on this as I know hes been there hunting cows
this year,,,,and has done so in the past as some of the rest of us.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Wait a minute. A few wolf sightings and they are to blame for you seeing a few less elk on your outing. 

1. Every time I go out I see different amounts of deer and elk. So maybe you just aren't looking hard enough.

2. Weather! With last winters harsh snows coupled with this yrs light snows. Maybe they just aren't where they normally are.

3. Road kill! I seen 2 dead elk on my drive over to vernal the other day. Man hwy 40 sure takes a toll on them critters.

4. Habitat! What we seen during the 90S and turn of the century was a perfect storm for elk. Yrs of under grazing and abundant deer populations made conditions perfect for an elk explosion. Elk populations up there were unnatural and unsustainable. 

5. Food! There is no feed left for elk. They have eaten all the young aspen leaving old unproductive aspen that has little nutritional value for elk. 

6. I've learned over the yrs. If I choose to I can chalk wolf predation as compensatory. Then the elk aren't a problem. Its that easy. 

7. If your not seeing lots of elk. Its because you aren't far enough from the road. Get off the road and you will see the elk herd is looking good.

8. If your worried about a decrease in the elk herd. Your probably a trophy hunter. Well you quest for inches is screwing it up for the "average Joe". 

9. Probably all the ATV activity in the area causing all the cows to drop early and killing all the calf's.

10. Cabins? 

Not to worry. If we pour 100s of millions into habitat restoration and road fencing. And with a lot of help from mother nature. We may see a slight increase in the elk herd but not like it was back in the day. Those days are gone forever. 

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## ARROWHNTR (Dec 11, 2008)

That group of coyotes has been up there every winter for the past five years. About five years ago we cut there tracks a couple times during the winter, and now we cut them every time we go up there. The DWR is well aware that they are there, they have trail cameras all over up there trying to get pictures of them. When I talked to the guy last they were trying to get some flying time to go up and locate them and determine how many there are. Not sure there is anything they can do about them though casue they are still listed south of 1-80.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Wait a minute. A few wolf sightings and they are to blame for you seeing a few less elk on your outing.
> 
> 1. Every time I go out I see different amounts of deer and elk. So maybe you just aren't looking hard enough.
> 
> ...


IB,

I love you man.....
You should have been a lawyer!

Big :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

asdlkj


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## 2litl2l8 (Jan 16, 2008)

Can the DWR trap the Big Coyotes and move them somewhere else, like DC or Northern California/Oregon/Washington. Lol. Serious though can they trap and relocate?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

goofy elk said:


> I would love to hear Airborns take on this as I know hes been there hunting cows
> this year,,,,and has done so in the past as some of the rest of us.


My take: The elk hit their heyday during the time when there was a bunch of construction work going on in Diamond fork canyon. We used to see elk EVERY time we were up there. After the work was completed, something changed (more people, I assume) and they got a harder to find during the spike hunt, but we could always find some later in the year. Slowly they disappeared during the deer and elk seasons and didn't show up until mid Nov. 2008 was the last good year for our little area (cow elk). 2009, it was hard but we managed to find some. 2010 didn't get out too much and didn't see anything. 2011 was a total bust for the early hunt. I always assumed that the elk had left our canyons for some reason, and were hanging out somewhere else. I'm quite shocked to find out that nobody's getting into them. It's quite a worrisome fact. And now there's talk of wolves in there...  I sure hope that turns out to be false.

I don't know if I'm even putting in for that unit next year. I probably wouldn't find any elk, and if I did I would feel too guilty about shooting one if the population is really as bad as everyone claims it to be.

Maybe you're all lying, and the hunting is so great up there that you're keeping it a secret. At this point that is about the only hope I can hang on to.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Clarq said:


> It's quite a worrisome fact. And now there's talk of wolves in there...  I sure hope that turns out to be false.
> 
> I don't know if I'm even putting in for that unit next year. I probably wouldn't find any elk, and if I did I would feel too guilty about shooting one if the population is really as bad as everyone claims it to be.
> 
> Maybe you're all lying, and the hunting is so great up there that you're keeping it a secret. At this point that is about the only hope I can hang on to.


This thread is not a hoax... it is factual. I did not post it to be taken as keeping someone from hunting an area, only to state the facts as I know them....Big


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I've gathered more solid info from the boots on the ground, face to face....
And actually going to spend quite a bit of time on this unit next week.

Glad to see the info on this forum though, responses by Clarq and airborne reflected
everything I've personally seen and heard..This story is more than likely going to make
'KSL' before long. And then, all hell will break loose when LE elk tags have to be cut!
I've personally watched the big bull numbers ,along with cows, disappearing in that area
for 3 years now. 2012 will continue the decline, pizzed off hunters will get attention..

And Clarq, which construction project are you talking about?
I worked for PCL when we closed Diamond Fork for 2 years laying the 8' pipe and new
road in 95/96...........I was in there every day, had access when the public did not.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

I spent a TON of time in the Water's last year. During the archery hunt I didn't see a lot of elk but I did find a few. One HUGE bull though (sorry not going to say where). Rumor had it the Mossback boys were chasing him. I don't know if they ever got him. During the muzzy deer hunt I couldn't walk without tripping over an elk......lots and lots of bulls, PLENTY of shooters and making quite a racket. By the rifle deer hunt they were harder to find. The majority of the elk I found were not necessarily in the Water's but in area immediately bordering them.

Prior to 3 years ago I hadn't spent much time up there so I don't have a reference to what it used to look like.

I'm not going to add to the rumor mill, there are plenty already, but I will say from having spent as much time as I have up in that area over the last 3 years I'm pretty confident there are wolves in that area and I am glad the division is searching the area.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

Airborne said:


> We went all the way into second water. We spotted 8 bulls but no cows. While we were glassing those bulls in second water I heard a couple howls. It was low pitch, long and drawn out.


I had the same experience as Airborne on the opener of the spike hunt. My dad and I were in 2nd water with no visibility, but we heard howls with the low pitch, long and drawn out, just as Airborne describes.

Maybe that explains why we saw so few elk this year.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The area is outside the UDWR's authorization to manage wolves. So the Feds have control. The FWS has killed "problem" wolves which kill livestock. Time to move a herd of sheep into the area..... 

This is a fight which should get our attention. The wolf management line needs to be moved South to I70.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

There has been wolves on peoples trail cameras up in that area, so it is no secret at all that there are wolves in there. I personally think it is way past a rumor at this point, but that is just my opinion. At the same time I don't think there is enough right now to make much of an impact, all we can do is hope DWR are prepared for them so we can manage them properly when we are allowed to.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Packout said:


> The area is outside the UDWR's authorization to manage wolves. So the Feds have control. The FWS has killed "problem" wolves which kill livestock. Time to move a herd of sheep into the area.....
> 
> This is a fight which should get our attention. The wolf management line needs to be moved South to I70.


 How 'bout we move that line down to the Arizona border?


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

In December 2011 a water system conveyance operator observed four wolves running down a group of deer. The man was on the gated road into sixth water. The deer were so exhausted that they ran to his truck for safety. The man reported that the wolves broke off the chase and ran for tree cover. The deer stayed by the truck for several minutes and then headed into the bottom of the canyon.

I know the man that has given this report and I believe him to be knowledgeable and creditable.
Big

Tips to ID a wolf 
• Size is the key to differentiating a wolf from a coyote. A coyote is half as big as a wolf. 
• Wolves differ from most dogs by narrower chest, longer legs, larger feet, tail held straight down or out, and large head with cheek hair tufts. 
• When walking, a wolf places its hind foot in the track left by the front foot, whereas a dog?s front and hind foot tracks do not overlap. 
• Dogs tend to zigzag as they walk while wolves and coyotes usually walk in a straight line. A wolf print is 4-5 inches long and the length of a stride is 34-40 inches. A coyote?s stride is 26-30 inches. 
Source: Wisconsin DNR

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_myth_legend ... ption.html


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

So... any guesses how long it'll be until we have our first human/wolf conflict up in those areas? Maybe they'll weed out some of the weirdos that hit the hot pots up fifth water.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Riverrat77 said:


> So... any guesses how long it'll be until we have our first human/wolf conflict up in those areas? Maybe they'll weed out some of the weirdos that hit the hot pots up fifth water.


There are no weirdos up there, just 70 year old nudists. Just like there are no wolves, only giant coyotes. :mrgreen:


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

bigbr said:


> The deer were so exhausted that they ran to his truck for safety. The man reported that the wolves broke off the chase and ran for tree cover. The deer stayed by the truck for several minutes and then headed into the bottom of the canyon.


I need to switch deer hunting spots. The deer where I hunt are afraid of trucks. :lol:


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## Mrad (Mar 25, 2011)

Cmon guys. Just give me one first hand legitimate sighting, trail cam picture, video, still picture that YOU took.

Why is always second hand, third, forth, etc....

There's hundreds if not thousands of people in this country every week and I've yet to hear it from the horses mouth.

Not saying they aren't coming, not saying I want them here, I'd just like to see some compeling evidence.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Mrad said:


> There's hundreds if not thousands of people in this country every week and I've yet to hear it from the horses mouth.
> 
> Not saying they aren't coming, not saying I want them here, I'd just like to see some compeling evidence.


Are you serious? There have been numerous confirmed cases? The first being no less than 3 years ago in Morgan by the state trapper I believe, Dutch John, Franklin Basin, etc. CONFIRMED cases, not to mention numerous alleged sightings. More info here http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/component/ ... tml#wolves


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Mrad said:
> 
> 
> > There's hundreds if not thousands of people in this country every week and I've yet to hear it from the horses mouth.
> ...


Jees Huge, that article is depressing. The scenerio where a livestock owner would have to sit back and watch his livestock be completely dessimated by wolves and no one, including himself or a government agency, has power to do anything about it...that is absurd at best. That is definitely a situation when the the three S's come into play, when someone's livelihood is at stake.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

goofy elk said:


> And Clarq, which construction project are you talking about?
> I worked for PCL when we closed Diamond Fork for 2 years laying the 8' pipe and new
> road in 95/96...........I was in there every day, had access when the public did not.


I was pretty young back then, so I had to ask my dad about this one. He said it was the pipeline project around 93/94. I guess he's probably off by a few years.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

bigbr said:


> In December 2011 a water system conveyance operator observed four wolves running down a group of deer. The man was on the gated road into sixth water. The deer were so exhausted that they ran to his truck for safety. The man reported that the wolves broke off the chase and ran for tree cover. The deer stayed by the truck for several minutes and then headed into the bottom of the canyon.





> Utah Code
> Title 18
> Dogs
> Chapter 1
> ...


Sounds to me like a dog was attacking, or worrying hoofed protected wildlife. Couldn't be a wolf. Shoot 'em. I'd hate to think of just wounding an animal, but if it were to run all the way back to Montana before it died....... :O•-:


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Mrad said:


> Why is always second hand, third, forth, etc....
> 
> There's hundreds if not thousands of people in this country every week and I've yet to hear it from the horses mouth.


Because the people that see them first hand don't have time to be on internet forums.

Truth be told the amount of people that see them vs the amount of us here on the forum have a possibility of overlapping that is amazingly slim to none. Very unlikely you will get a first hand account. Another reason could be that if reported the DWR might tell them to keep it under wraps until they investigate.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the big deal with shooting them...according to the DWR they do not exist this low in Utah yet. Therfore they are not real. Therefore you aren't shooting anything except maybe a strage colored coyote. I personally have seen tracks during the cow elk hunt this last year. Deffinately bigger than a dog, claws on all fours on top of Strawberry ridge. Too bad you need a snowmobile to get up there now and setup a cam.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Mrad said:


> Cmon guys. Just give me one first hand legitimate sighting, trail cam picture, video, still picture that YOU took.
> 
> Why is always second hand, third, forth, etc....
> 
> ...


It doesn't exist. 
From the words in the DWR document there have been a few times when a transient or escaped wolf, or wolves, have left some kind of evidence that they had been there. The document makes a point to deny a resident population.
If a photograph existed proving wolves live in Utah it would be all over the media. The pro-wolf groups would want to use it to force protection and prove that reintrodution worked. The anti-wolf guys would want to use it to rally the forces to de-list. 
I would like to see a wolf for myself before it's all over.


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## Mrad (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm aware that there have been a few trapped and killed in the state. It's fact. But we're only talking about a few isolated deals.

The way guys are talking on here, there's currently a pack raising cain on the wasatch unit just minutes from the Wasatch front in utah county....

If/when it happens-established packs, it isn't going to be on the wasatch IMO.

If there are wolves between strawberry and I15 prove it.
o-||


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

You know posting on this forum is like choosing your television news channel. You can either take it or leave it and the reporters really don’t care rather you buy it or not.

I for one have been a skeptic about many things, but what I have posted comes from men who are in the area on a daily and weekly basis doing their jobs and they are seeing more and more evidence that we have a pack of wolves resident in the Diamond Fork/ Strawberry region of this state currently and I say that with some reservation because wolves are a very mobile and transient animal until they establish home range.

I do believe we have a pack that has set up shop in Diamond Fork/ Strawberry. I guess Las Vegas was just too darn far…..Big


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## Levy (Oct 2, 2007)

There are wolves in that area. I have pics of a wolf from one of our trailcams during the 2010 LE archery elk hunt. Do I think that there is a big ole pack running around in there destroying the elk herd? Absolutely not. But you are naive if you think there isn't a wolf or 2 currently in that area. Here is the link to the cam picture-

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/t ... 16&forum=5


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## Mrad (Mar 25, 2011)

Cool. That's the first hand kind of thing I was talking about. I've seen that picture floating around, but for all I knew it was Idaho. Thanks.


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## bkelz (Dec 3, 2010)

i dont believe anything till i see it for myself....


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I do not have pictures yet, But I saw one in Rays Valley two years ago. No doubt about it. A Big grey wolf. Not a pack, and I do not expect you to believe me, But I know that area very well and I know what a coyote and a wolf look like. I saw this wolf at 30 yards. Believe it or not that is fine but they are in the area. That is a fact.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Well stalker, I believe ya.....


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

I want to see your pics, that you have from your elk hunt, their easy to upload since their on your trail camara, and SD card. I keep thinking their out there to but there is yet no proof. What I mean by NO PROOF, for as many trail camara's that's floating around Diamond Fork, and Strawberry, and the Waters including my 6 I've got out I've yet to have anything but Elk, Deer, and Bear. For as seeing one, I will kill that big ole Coyote...


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## Levy (Oct 2, 2007)

> I want to see your pics, that you have from your elk hunt, their easy to upload since their on your trail camara, and SD card. I keep thinking their out there to but there is yet no proof. What I mean by NO PROOF, for as many trail camara's that's floating around Diamond Fork, and Strawberry, and the Waters including my 6 I've got out I've yet to have anything but Elk, Deer, and Bear. For as seeing one, I will kill that big ole Coyote


Ruger, I Don't save SD card photos from a hunt that was over a year and a half ago. Sorry, they get cleared and used again. A lot easier/quicker to post a link that JE posted than upload and resize a photo. The reason you don't have any pics on your 6 cameras is that they are hanging 10ft off the road . Even with all the supposed cameras in those areas to catch one particular animal requires a lot of luck. Especially with a wolf that could range 100s of miles.


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

Trust Me if I had a unusual pic of a wolf on my trail cam, I would be saving it. Probably would have taking it to Walmart and made pics out of it. But still I made the point I believe their here, but all the trail cams that I put out and run into, and most everyone that hunts anymore have camaras, and use them over water holes, trails and salt licks, and where ever else. We never see or here of pics on this web site or any others.


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## Levy (Oct 2, 2007)

Busted me, I have tons of time to just find random pics of wolves that were posted in a thread from a different site from almost 2 years ago referencing that area. Hopefully one will chit on your face up in there so you can have the conclusive evidence you are looking for...actually I really hope we don't see anymore in there.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a small pack of wolves established here in Utah. Whether that would be in the DF area, Logan area, or the N slope area doesn't really matter. The wolf is coming and there isn't ANYTHING that can be done by ANYONE to stop it, short of revamping the ESA; and that certainly isn't going to happen anytime soon.

The most that can be done is to mitigate their impact. Should they establish themselves in the area of Northern Utah where endangered status has been lifted, the state will deal with them according to legislated plans. Should they establish themselves south of there, the it will be up to the Service to deal with them, and we all know what that means.

The implications from the Mexican wolf introductions are a bit different. Although the time frame isn't immediate, it is within the next few years, and with it comes a new set of circumstanses to deal with.


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

silentstalker said:


> I do not have pictures yet, But I saw one in Rays Valley two years ago. No doubt about it. A Big grey wolf. Not a pack, and I do not expect you to believe me, But I know that area very well and I know what a coyote and a wolf look like. I saw this wolf at 30 yards. Believe it or not that is fine but they are in the area. That is a fact.


I believe you as well. A buddy of mine told me last spring on his turkey hunter up Diamond Fork he called one in to about 20 yards or so, described the dark color, WAY bigger than a normal dog not to mention a coyote and had a collar on it with a transmiter box. I know my friend and he doesn't make things like that up. He ended up standing up with his gun raised to scare it off since it had its nose to the ground when it came in, once it saw him it took off like a bat out of hell....


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