# 209 primer problem



## karma (Sep 11, 2007)

Has anyone read about the issue with 209 shotshell primer used in some Thompson/Center ml's? Seems the 209 is too big to do the job properly and can cause your load to jump a bit at the same time the powder lights, causing a "flyer" shot. I don't know about you guys but I usually know if the shot was where I wanted it as soon as I let it go. It's just instinctive. I've had several occasions when I knew I made a good shot only to discover that it was actually a flyer. This can happen with ml's anyway but it's a bit more worrisome to me since I read about the 209 issue. 

I also read that the 209 is a lot dirtier than a ml primer should be and can actually cause your firing pin to not work after a while.

T/C is making and selling modification kits so you can use a different primer on ml's that use the 209. Seems it would make more sense to make a new primer the same size as the 209 but one that is cleaner and less powerful. It kind of makes me wish I wouldn't have bought a T/C. Seems like something they should have know about from pre-market testing long before they sold the first one.

Any thought?


----------



## karma (Sep 11, 2007)

http://www.blackpowderbullets.com/tc_encore.html


----------



## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I would say its more of a dirty firearm. If your load is not seated in the same spot every shot you will have a gap between the powder and bullet thus the pushing effect. try not using your pellets and use some loose powder, or even better cut back on your powder some. it all is a combination of things not just the primer.
triple seven is a good crud ring provider, your second shot has the best chance of being in the same spot more than others.
But you only need one out in the field right.


----------



## Extex (Sep 11, 2007)

There are new primers cleaner and less powerfull - Remington and Winchester are both making 209 primers for ml's. Winchester now has a 777 primer which is what I am using. I never noticed a problem with flyers on the old 209 - they were just dirty as hell. I bought a small rifle primer kit for 209 conversion from variflame????? and they work ok but are a pain in the azz for shooting a lot - only 10 come with the kit so I stick to the new style from winchester.


----------



## karma (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks to Sage and Extex. As I'm sure you folks can tell I don't have near the knowledge you do about ML's.

Sage -- good point. I never thought about inconsistent loads due to using pellets. Guess I better make the switch to powder next year. Too late for this year as I can't get out to shoot again before the 26th.

Extex -- Thanks for the information. I'm glad to learn I can get 209 primers that are made for ML's rather than just shot shells type primers. I'll get some tomorrow. Hopefully by changing just the primer I won't change the accuracy I have now.

Thanks again. You guys are great. Good luck if you're hunting this fall!


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Variflame*

There are several manufacturers that offer a much better primer than the standard 209; even the Remington and 777 have the same issues--too much power. Someone mentioned the variflame; they use the small pistol primers that foul much less. The common problem with too much power is that the unburnt powder can be thrust out the barrel, meaning an inconsistent amount of powder burnt each shot and therefore inconsistent shots. The .25 brass and variflame type primer/breech plugs are supposed to tighten up your patterns by ensuring more consistent full burn of all of the powder rather than begginning the shot by pushing the powder forward rather than just acting as an insendiary. I use the Variflame, they are indeed a little more work, but then again it only takes one well-placed shot to end the season; I'll take the extra time to make it a good shot.


----------

