# Did the Angling Community Drop the Ball?



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

According to Kim Karpowitz, it is the angling community that drop the ball on HB187. He is stating that from the start of the formation of this pathetic piece of legislation, that he encouraged anlers to be involved because, he didn't want the sole pressure on his shoulders. (I would suggest that if he isn't strong enough to take the sole pressure, he may be in the wrong position.) 

He claims to have asked anglers to be involved. So who is he referring to? I had never heard about this bill until it was leaked out about some "secret" meetings being held. Why didn't these "angler" representatives bring this out in the open from the start? 

Anyway, maybe next time they are having discussions on the future of angling in the state of Utah, they will be more forthright? The DWR and the so-called angler groups!


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Picked up on another forum:
"If UAC is not taking a stance..err.. sticking up for the people they represent...then who the hell is Ed Kent representing? Especially when he is changing the language...... 2 hours after he stated "no compromise" to our face.

The UAC and ED Kent do not speak for me on HB 187 and are not a friend to anglers on HB 187.

We all have been double crossed!"


...and I might add, they know it too. They have been asked to come forth and present how they were involved and not one has done it. A voice that is hidden can never be heard or understood. That to me is cowardly! 

Come clean! Tell us about your involvement, please!


----------



## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

Time to ditch this guy and show the DWR who calls the shots. It's us the sportsman. While we are all in the mood, fire off a letter to Huntsman that either he appoints someone different, or sportsman will campaign against him in the future.

I for one am getting tired of government. all of it and them. Time to install a revolving door on all government until we get some represenatives.


----------



## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

I was never contacted to help! I would have loved to have helped.


----------



## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I'm afraid we did drop the ball, but not on purpose. You would hope that the DWR would have made it known that it was working on an anti-fishing bill. You would also hope that any angler group involved would have let others know about what was transpiring. We dropped the ball by not being ready for the inevitable payback by landowners/developers to the Supreme Court ruling last year. If we squeek by this session and defeat this bill, we will have to be doubley on the alert for next year's onslaught. It sucks having to fight the DWR for fishing representation, but they are not the fisherman's friend...not by a long shot.
R


----------



## GSPS ROCK (Sep 14, 2007)

Guns and Flies said:


> I was never contacted to help! I would have loved to have helped.


You can help now! Consider this being contacted! See you at the Rally!


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

HighNDry said:


> According to Kim Karpowitz, it is the angling community that drop the ball on HB187. He is stating that from the start of the formation of this pathetic piece of legislation, that he encouraged anlers to be involved because, he didn't want the sole pressure on his shoulders. (I would suggest that if he isn't strong enough to take the sole pressure, he may be in the wrong position.)
> 
> He claims to have asked anglers to be involved. So who is he referring to? I had never heard about this bill until it was leaked out about some "secret" meetings being held. Why didn't these "angler" representatives bring this out in the open from the start?
> 
> Anyway, maybe next time they are having discussions on the future of angling in the state of Utah, they will be more forthright? The DWR and the so-called angler groups!


His repeated statements to this effect continue to absolutely infuriate me! He has stated in different communications that quote "angling groups" have been involved through the fall and into the new year in guiding this legislation. However, the way I understand it, around December, Karpowitz invited Ed Kent, Utah Dave, a fellow named Schmidt representing fly shops and possibly one other individual to have one or two BACK DOOR meetings with Ferry. This indeed took place, and the reps had their meeting with Rep. Ferry and said their peace. None of the groups membership themselves knew about this until around the time that the Tribune article by Prettyman came out. When this was discussed on UOTF, enormous outrage was expressed, which was the kernel of the grass roots opposition we are seeing and the Utah Water Guardians. As some of you know, some outrage was directed at these 3-4 guys because they had this private meeting without telling the people they represented. However, it never sounded to me that Ed Kent or others had any major part in the particulars we now face in HB 187. More importantly, the DWR never let the average fisherman or even the specialized groups general membership know about any of this until the Trib popped it on us in January. Statements to the contrary by Karpowitz seem to me to be outright deception.

Is there anyone that knew about the particulars of HB 187 prior to the New Year? Does the directors statements bother you guys as much as it does me? Or am I incorrect in this analysis? I actually would LIKE to have more faith in the director than I currently have. The sad thing about it all is that IF the average angler DID have more of a say in the fall and before the legislative session, then we might be looking at some legislation now that serves both us and landowners fairly, not the pile of excrement called HB187.


----------



## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

We, the anglers need to have our own legislation to introduce next year. This rally is just the start of the race. We need to be pro active from now on and very pro active at that. We need to identify which legislators are for and which are against. Then we need to volonteer to campaign for those who are on our side. The time of sitting back and seeing what happens is over.
Sportsman contribute 700 million to the economy of UT each year, they need to know this, they need to know that we will speak with our wallets. We need to let places like lodges, campgrounds and sporting goods stores know that if this or anything like HB187 goes through , ever, that we as a group will pull out. No license purchases, no tackle purchases, no gas, no boat registrations.

We need them to know the fininacial and political clout we have.

Right now the legislature is looking for budgets to cut, how about we write Jim K to let him know that we will support any reduction in DWR general funding unless he retracts his statements and comes down clearly on the side of sportman. We need to leave the whole DWR holding their backsides and begging sportsmen and women to never "pick up the ball" again.


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Catherder said:


> HighNDry said:
> 
> 
> > According to Kim Karpowitz, it is the angling community that drop the ball on HB187. He is stating that from the start of the formation of this pathetic piece of legislation, that he encouraged anlers to be involved because, he didn't want the sole pressure on his shoulders. (I would suggest that if he isn't strong enough to take the sole pressure, he may be in the wrong position.)
> ...


That's my point. Why are YOU telling me this instaed of Them. These so-called angler representatives seem to be in hiding. Why can't they just come clean on their involvement? maybe they feel like Karpowitz, they just don't want the pressure of all the anglers in the state coming down on them.


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

RE: "That's my point. Why are YOU telling me this instaed of Them. These so-called angler representatives seem to be in hiding. Why can't they just come clean on their involvement? maybe they feel like Karpowitz, they just don't want the pressure of all the anglers in the state coming down on them."

They will have to speak for themselves, but I have heard through the grapevine that all of them feel as we do about HB 187. As for any TU leaders, (one of the 3 mentioned is a TU leader) it should be remembered that TU is not publicly allowed to become "officially" involved in access issues. That may explain some of this silence.

To me the more important issue is that Karpowitz did NOT involve the average angler in the process of crafting 187, and has deceptively claimed otherwise on multiple occasions.


----------



## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

I WISH I could be at the rally. All the names referred to here I am not aware of. I don't feel like I am in the know enough to be furious, but to the sounds of it I should be due to lack of investement in public interests. I want the supreme court ruling to stick as it is more than anything! I feel like I need to be more educated on what is going on with all of this so I can have more of an impact on things, I'm wondering if others feel the same. I have never heard of any of the names being mentioned.....


----------



## LawMan (Sep 25, 2007)

> As for any TU leaders, (one of the 3 mentioned is a TU leader) it should be remembered that TU is not publicly allowed to become "officially" involved in access issues. That may explain some of this silence.


Why can't TU become officially involved in access issues? I know it's a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, but that should only keep it from becoming involved in campaigns and endorsinig candidates. It can still take positions on and support or oppose issues.


----------



## 280Remington (Jun 2, 2008)

Kaysh. Too much Kaysh received in the form of donations from affluent landowners.


----------



## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

Then their name should be "Trout Limited" that's what it will be in UT if this goes through.

Only one of the reasons I don't support TU.


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

LawMan said:


> > As for any TU leaders, (one of the 3 mentioned is a TU leader) it should be remembered that TU is not publicly allowed to become "officially" involved in access issues. That may explain some of this silence.
> 
> 
> Why can't TU become officially involved in access issues? I know it's a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, but that should only keep it from becoming involved in campaigns and endorsinig candidates. It can still take positions on and support or oppose issues.


The national TU organization has declared a policy that they will be neutral regarding all access issues. The local chapters must abide by this, and thus you won't see an official endorsement or denouncement of 187. Individual members however will have their own opinion that they will express.


----------



## Dead Drifter (Nov 22, 2008)

If I belonged to an organization that told me what I can and cannot voice my opinion on, I'd drop from its rolls. "We don't take an official stand on access issues." Then don't whine when you can't take an official stand in one of our prime trout waters!


----------



## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Troll said:


> We, the anglers need to have our own legislation to introduce next year. This rally is just the start of the race. We need to be pro active from now on and very pro active at that. We need to identify which legislators are for and which are against. Then we need to volonteer to campaign for those who are on our side. The time of sitting back and seeing what happens is over.
> Sportsman contribute 700 million to the economy of UT each year, they need to know this, they need to know that we will speak with our wallets. We need to let places like lodges, campgrounds and sporting goods stores know that if this or anything like HB187 goes through , ever, that we as a group will pull out. No license purchases, no tackle purchases, no gas, no boat registrations.
> 
> We need them to know the fininacial and political clout we have.
> ...


Excellent post Troll! People need to read this and tell the Dirty Wildlife Representatives(DWR) what they stand to loose if they keep bowing down to smaller threats than the sportsmen of UT! I will seriously consider buying an ID combo license and spending my time up there from now on. Their state really knows how to treat their people and actually manage their resources. Utah hasn't a clue. I did not and will not apply for the big game draw this year besides the Expo tags. Shouldn't have done that either but it was too late when i found all this out.
Anybody who can be at the rally REALLY needs to be there! If someone needs a ride shoot me a pm and i can take you with me from weber county.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> According to Kim Karpowitz, it is the angling community that drop the ball on HB187


Hey were can I find this so I can quote it in an email to him. I have yet to send him an email and I am kicking myself now. We ALL need to FLOOD his inbox so he knows that he cant get away with this in coming years or he will be out of a job!! Please reference his statement and post his email one more time and LETS ALL SEND HIM AN EMAIL!!!!!


----------



## Dead Drifter (Nov 22, 2008)

I think HND is referencing his interview with Doug Wright on the radio. He said that when the "talks" were being formed he did not want the sole responsibility of representing anglers so he invited some people from the angling groups (That was someone from the Stonefly Society and the UAC). He inferred, that he told these "angler spokesmen" to make sure they kept in touch with Ferry and let him know their position. That's as best as I can remember, it's not an exact quote so better see if their is a link to Karpowitz interview if you need an exact quote. He (Karpowitz) made it seem like he invited,but he didn't know if the angler voices kept the dialog going.

And in my opinion, that is where the ball was dropped. I think from the outset of these meetings the "angler" voices should have brought these secretive meetings to the general angling communities knowledge instead of waiting for a newspaper to break the story. Hindsight is 20/20 but they should have been shouting from the roof tops about this BS! How close have we come from losing rights? Could you imagine if the paper had not broke the story and Ferry and his clones are in session right now pushing their secret little document into law? I hate dishonest, self-serving politicians. We'll just sneak this legislation through then calim we had representation from all interested parties. What a joke!


----------



## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Troll said:


> Time to ditch this guy and show the DWR who calls the shots. It's us the sportsman. While we are all in the mood, fire off a letter to Huntsman that either he appoints someone different, or sportsman will campaign against him in the future.
> 
> I for one am getting tired of government. all of it and them. Time to install a revolving door on all government until we get some represenatives.


I take exception to Kim's comments. I just got done sending an E-mail to the governor. I let him know that the sole reason I did not vote for him in the last election was because of the upper management at the DWR. It did make me feel better, but in reality I don't think the politicians really care about one soul that is not happy with them.


----------

