# CWMU Hunts



## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok i have to admit that in my many years of hunting I have not been putting in for the draw or any of the LE hunts until last year. You might ask why so let me address that lol. I have almost always hunted either central or Northern and always been able to buy the tag over the counter.

I have read the proclamation and understand the point system pretty well and the LE hunts are self explanatory but what I dont quite understand is the CWMU hunts. Here is what I know so far: It costs you $35.00 to put in for one in the draw or you can pay the land owner the many thousands he wants to gain access. You should not expect to hunt more then 5 days in that area even though the hunt in most cases lasts 2 months (I think) I also know the detailed maps on the DWR website dont work and its a major pain to find the one you are looking for lol. What I dont get is: Do you loose all your points if you draw a CWMU tag? Do you gain points if you put in and dont draw? can you put in for both LE and CWMU or is it one or the other? are there additional funds needed for the land owner other then the $35.00 fee if you do draw the tag you are seeking? And finally, Is there another source for the listings and maps of the deer and elk CWMU units that actually works?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

drawing and obtaining a CWMU tag is no different than LE tag. just one is on private property and the other is on public land. No extra fees are required with the CWMU tag, or to hunt on the property.
go to the CWMU section and read the rules governing them on the DWR web site. the maps do work over there. just some times it might take longer to down load some.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

+1 on what Sagebrush said

CWMUs are run by private land owners and they have rules that you have to follow. Most of these CWMUs are pretty risky to put in for because you don't know what to expect.
There are a few good ones with good operators but you needs to talk to people that have drawn the tag before you apply.

The maps on the DWR site work just fine, they just take a little while to load if your computer is slow.
http://wildlife.utah.gov/maps/cwmu/

Also check this site out, it will help you better understand the CWMU program
http://www.cwmuutahwildlife.org


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok then I will assume that seeings how they are the same you can only put in for one at a time. What about only being able to hunt 5 days even though the hunt is 2 months long why would it be limited to 5 days? Also Ive read discussions about the land owners acting as guides, is that supposed to be the case or only in the best case senario.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

sagebrush is right on the money.
I guide on 5 CWMU properties.
The 5 day limit on most is due to the fact that there are paying clients booked to hunt 5 days as well.


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## bird buster (May 25, 2008)

In most cases the land owners prefer to guide you. That way you know where to hunt, and most of the time they'll help you retrieve your game. The idea of the CWMU is to provide the lucky person who draws the tag the same opportunity as the guy who can buy the tag for thousands of dollars has. However, if the owner knows where a 400" bull is hanging out, don't expect him to let you shoot it. He'll take you to an area that holds 330"- 350" bulls. Which is still a very respectable bull. 

And just so you know it's nice to give your guide a tip. Nothing over the top but a couple hundred dollars will do. The real tip money comes from the rich guys who buy the tag for $12,000. 

The way I understand it the operator has the right to say how many days you hunt, and like previous stated what canyons to hunt.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Some advice! Avoid Hardscrabble unless you want to hunt alongside cougar hunters with dogs.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Well what im looking for is a place with a respectable buck population in the northern area. Any suggestions?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Bo0YaA said:


> Well what im looking for is a place with a respectable buck population in the northern area. Any suggestions?


The Heaston (Kennecott) CWMU has some BIG bucks on it, but that's a hard one to draw. However, they provide a required "free" guide so you don't shoot an employee or damage any equipment. I've hunted antlerless on there and it's actually a fun hunt. BUT, TIP THE GUIDE because he doesn't get paid for the public hunts.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

elkfromabove said:


> Bo0YaA said:
> 
> 
> > Well what im looking for is a place with a respectable buck population in the northern area. Any suggestions?
> ...


Same exact story with Deseret Land and Livestock


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Just look at the draw odds. The general rule is that the really good units will have really bad odds and the lower end units have better odds. 

Most CWMU guides are reimbursed by the CWMU. The public should not be expected to tip a guide IF the CWMU requires the guide. Do it if you want, but don't worry if you don't tip. Also, some CWMUs allow you to pay for a guide if you want one. In that case you should tip according to the service.

There are new rules which are in place this year to help protect the Public Hunter. While not perfect, the CWMU program is allowing average Joe to access and hunt land which could be very productive. If you are a public hunter and you are not treated fairly then file a complaint with the DWR. That is the only way to better the program.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Packout said:


> Just look at the draw odds. The general rule is that the really good units will have really bad odds and the lower end units have better odds.
> 
> Most CWMU guides are reimbursed by the CWMU. The public should not be expected to tip a guide IF the CWMU requires the guide. Do it if you want, but don't worry if you don't tip. Also, some CWMUs allow you to pay for a guide if you want one. In that case you should tip according to the service.
> 
> There are new rules which are in place this year to help protect the Public Hunter. While not perfect, the CWMU program is allowing average Joe to access and hunt land which could be very productive. If you are a public hunter and you are not treated fairly then file a complaint with the DWR. That is the only way to better the program.


Not the case.
The "guide" is not reimbursed at all whatsoever.
The guide receives a standard wage whether its a paying client or a public draw hunter.
If you are being guided.....a tip is WELL aprreciated.

NOTHING will kill a good CWMU reputation faster than public hunters thinking they are getting a "freebie" and don't have to show a gratuity. 
If the public has this mentality, then the public hunters will ALWAYS get sub-par guides and you will get sub-par treatment.
In most cases, a public hunter is getting basically a free hunt when others are paying several thousand dollars. 
You SHOULD be able to afford a little gratuity.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Skull- I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Most CWMUs do not require a guide to be with the hunter. Those that do require a guide should do so at their own expense because it is the CWMU's policy; not the DWR's. If your boss is requiring you to be there then he should be the one reimbursing you.



> NOTHING will kill a good CWMU reputation faster than public hunters thinking they are getting a "freebie" and don't have to show a gratuity.
> If the public has this mentality, then the public hunters will ALWAYS get sub-par guides and you will get sub-par treatment.
> In most cases, a public hunter is getting basically a free hunt when others are paying several thousand dollars.
> You SHOULD be able to afford a little gratuity.


The public has already "paid" the price through the opportunities afforded to the CWMUs. The reason CWMUs have high dollar hunts is because of the guaranteed tags and the season lengths which allow for a better hunting experience. While a Public Hunter may be able to afford a tip, it should never be expected.

The CWMU Committee would love to hear about any Public Hunters who were treated differently by a CWMU and their employees because they were poor tippers. :wink:


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

Packout said:


> The public has already "paid" the price through the opportunities afforded to the CWMUs. The reason CWMUs have high dollar hunts is because of the guaranteed tags and the season lengths which allow for a better hunting experience. While a Public Hunter may be able to afford a tip, it should never be expected.
> 
> The CWMU Committee would love to hear about any Public Hunters who were treated differently by a CWMU and their employees because they were poor tippers. :wink:


+1000 Not a big fan of the CWMU and extra benefits they get (especially public land allowed to be included in CWMUs). Thanks Packout for explaining things so well.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

whats funny is I was looking at both of those actually more so then any others. Ive hunted in the area of both in the past and seen some nice animals.

i wonder which I have a better chance of drawing, Vernon, Heaston or DLL

Oh and I have no problem tipping a guide well if he can put me or my son on a good buck.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Bo0YaA said:


> whats funny is I was looking at both of those actually more so then any others. Ive hunted in the area of both in the past and seen some nice animals.
> 
> i wonder which I have a better chance of drawing, Vernon, Heaston or DLL
> 
> Oh and I have no problem tipping a guide well if he can put me or my son on a good buck.


Tipping your guide is a show of gratuity and thanks and it will be much appreciated by your guide boOYaA.....i'll thank you for him for even saying it.

As far as the guide being reimbursed.....like i said already, that's his wages, not tips.
Tips come from hunters, not his boss.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

I can see what Packout is saying, but for me it comes down to the same as any tip I leave. I never feel obligated but I do feel it can be deserved depending on these things. How I was treated, how much effort went into the service given, and how much did the person care about my success. Even if I didnt harvest an animal and I felt the guide put forth a ton of effort to try and put me on one and I was treated well for the entire experience I would still tip, maybe not as much lol but I would still tip. Thats just me though.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Bo0YaA said:


> whats funny is I was looking at both of those actually more so then any others. Ive hunted in the area of both in the past and seen some nice animals.
> 
> i wonder which I have a better chance of drawing, Vernon, Heaston or DLL
> 
> Oh and I have no problem tipping a guide well if he can put me or my son on a good buck.


Vernon I don't know about, But DLL is, by far, the hardest tag to draw for ANY hunt. The Heaston is harder to draw than most CWMU's because it is so close to Salt Lake and many people see the animals come down in the valley in the winter, so they know the quality. Also, on 1 of our 2 antlerless hunts several years ago, the guide told us about a very symetrical 4X4 x 36" wide and 20" tall that he enjoys watching come to a waterhole with some other big'ens every night. He said he wasn't paid by the operator for guiding public hunts, but he considered it a privilege to be able to get on the property about any time he wanted to view the big beasts (deer and elk). He helped my daughter get her two doe limit and he helped us get them out. We even used his vehicle because we came with my dad's two-wheel drive truck and it wouldn't make it on the unplowed snowy roads. I couldn't tip him at the time, but we sent a check to him later.


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

Bo0YaA,

How many points do you have?


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

legacy said:


> Bo0YaA,
> 
> How many points do you have?


Well like I said im pretty new to the whole draw process so I only have 3 :lol: . But i know a couple of tags are issued to folks with less then 5 so I can always hope.


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

Yeah, if you really want to hunt deer NOW, you may have a chance on a few CWMU's. My suggestion would be to chose an area you want to hunt that has the quality you are looking for. Apply for as long as it takes to draw and don't get to antsy to "burn" your points. The general hunt provides a lot of opportunity to hunt deer (I know, it's hard to believe), so anticipate hunting the general season year to year and settle in for the long haul for L.E. deer. Like you said, someone always seems to get lucky and draw with few points. That has NOT happended to me yet!!! I only have 6 points, but have drawn 2 Vernon archery permits in the past. I'm holding out now for a rifle tag (not for Vernon).


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Well thats kinda the idea I have, but Im not real familiar with alot of the areas so I will no doubt continue to put in for one of four hunts I do know a little about: DLL, Vernon, Heaston and one I have heard alot about is Dolores Triangle.


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## highuinta (Nov 9, 2008)

Actually this year you wont need a CWMU license. I have every intention of going to every CWMU property and cutting down the fences as well as removing all the signs. That way everybody that used to be able to hunt that property will be able to once again.


[email protected]#$%^&*UI() all you private landowners. Bunch of high and mighty money grubbing sobs.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Steady on, highuinta.



skull krazy said:


> NOTHING will kill a good CWMU reputation faster than public hunters thinking they are getting a "freebie" and don't have to show a gratuity.


Unless it's a guide slipping in an illegal fee by calling it something else. If a tip is expected, it isn't a gratuity.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

[quote="Bo0YaA]Well like I said im pretty new to the whole draw process so I only have 3 :lol: . But i know a couple of tags are issued to folks with less then 5 so I can always hope.[/quote]

You have no chance with 3 points to draw a DLL tag, sorry. I would do some research If I was you on all the CWMUs in Northern Utah. The herds got hit hard in the high country and several land owners I know said that they have seen the effects this year. I have been looking at some CWMUs in Box Elder county where the deer handle the winters much better. I looked at a few last week a saw 200+ deer on every property I went to. There are tons of deer out there, the problem is the trophy quality isn't as good as the high country from what I have seen. I'm sure there are still some real nice bucks out there, for sure some worth 3 or 4 points.
All you have to do in Box Elder county is look at the maps and you can look over a lot of property by just driving public roads in the area and glassing the CWMU property.
There are also a few high country CWMUs in Northern Utah close to DLL that hold nice bucks and are fairly easy to draw (3-5 points). I actually bought a map of Northern Utah and outlined all the CWMUs in the region, amazing how much land those CWMUs have in the region. I bet 80% of all of Northern Utah is CWMU. Pretty sad story for us "Average Joes" that hunt public land all year up here.
Anyway, if you need any help choosing or researching any lands up here, PM me and we'll talk. I have 4 points this year so I'm looking at some CWMUs that I could draw this year too.
Good Luck,
Matt


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