# Why is camo so expensive?



## StorminNorman

I've been wondering this for a while now. It's insane the prices of some of this stuff. Let's take First Lite for example, of course all their stuff is insanely expensive but if you were to get their long johns set you would be spending over $200! Long johns. 1 pair of briefs is $55! That's just wild to me. 
So if you were to buy their $155 vest or $300 coat, what is their profit margin on that? I can't imagine it costs a quarter of that to produce. 
I might be totally wrong. Anyone have a thought one way or another on the subject? Will spending a grand on camo make all the game I can handle magically appear and start running circles around me? Lol


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## DallanC

I hunt in Levis and an olive drab jacket. /shrug

-DallanC


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## CPAjeff

It’s expensive because camo is meant to fool hunters, not animals! 😉

With that being said, some of the newer stuff is so darn comfortable it’s worth the money to some.


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## Ray

For me, it’s about protection from the elements, I hunt hard and spend the entire day in the woods, rain or snow, so I need equipment that will keep me warm and dry, no matter the circumstance.


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## DallanC

Ray said:


> For me, it’s about protection from the elements, I hunt hard and spend the entire day in the woods, rain or snow, so I need equipment that will keep me warm and dry, no matter the circumstance.


+1

I have one nice piece of camo... a Goretex camo jacket. Got one for the wife too... Browning brand, but its all Goretex. Its over 20 years old and doesn't leak a drop. Its been to Alaska a bunch of times, use it around here hunting on rain days. It was well worth the $$$... but really, I got it for the waterproofness, not the camo pattern.

-DallanC


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## Ray

Couldn’t have said it better, DallanC! I don’t care about the pattern much at all, I just care if it works. I love my goretex jacket, just ordered some pants to go with it.

what part of AK?


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## Critter

I do 90% of my big game hunting in Levi's and cotton shirts. If the weather turns bad I have coveralls and jackets to put on. If I am wearing camo it is usually some military BDU's in woodland camo with either a matching shirt or just a run of the mill cotton camo shirt.

One place that I won't skimp on is my footwear. If you plan on covering miles and gaining elevation your boots better fit and be up to the task. 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## DallanC

Ray said:


> what part of AK?


Ketchikan a ton, Juneau a ton. Anchorage, Seward, Kenai, Soldotna, Homer, Sitka. Been on float planes out in the Mulchatna drainage for caribou. Really dont remember how may times... close to 20 if not that. Love the place. We primarily just go to Juneau now, we catch about everything we want there fishing. Pretty area too... although IMO, Seward is the most beautiful place to stay / fish around.

Planning a fall trip back up there as we speak. Maybe 3rd or 4th week in August.

-DallanC


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## Lone_Hunter

I probably know more about Camo then I should admit to. This is just my opinion, but hunting clothes matters less about the pattern, and more about what it's made of, and how it's designed.

First, let's just kick one thing out right now. You don't need to go buy all the name brand/expensive camo. If I see a guy rocking all sitka or first light, I know you've spent a grand on your hunting clothes. You don't need to. They look cool to the human eye, but thats about it. I'll just point out the obvious, that human and deer/elk don't see things the same way. This is a good illustration:








Deer


Click here to open a full-width version. Field-of-view: If you have ever seen a herd of deer with their heads down foraging in a field, you will notice that at any given time, at least one animal w…



www.azandisresearch.com





As concealment goes, there are two big things you can do without spending a dime:
1.) Mind the wind direction. A bottle of wind checker will conceal you the best.
2.) Mind your movement. I don't know about you, but I spot a good deal of wildlife when they move. When it comes to spotting you, animals are no different.

Beyond that, Camo is just "extra" icing on the cake. All you really want is a camo pattern that:

has color tones that are similar to the environment your in (not a blue dye based, and nothing excessively dark in tones)
breaks up your silhouette. Mind you a lot of patterns blob up at a distance, so they don't break up your outline at all.

As breaking up your silhouette goes however, a lot of that is just good woodsmanship. Not skylining yourself, not walking out into open fields, etc.

What I pay more attention to, is what the hunting clothes are made of. The only two things I pay attention to is:

- How it performs when wet, either from sweat or from rain. Sitting down and having to stay still for 2-3 hours when it's cold and frosty on the ground with a wet cotton T shirt under your coat, SUUUUCCCCKKKKSSSS. Also Being caught in a winter storm, and your cold and wet from the waist down also blows major suckage. When you have to keep moving or you risk going hypothermic, you'll start wondering if there were better choices in clothing.

- Scent control. This is just my opinion, but In general I think this overhyped from marketing trying to sell you a bunch of crap. As hunting clothes go, this just equates to washing them with a scentless detergent that doesn't have UV brighteners, made of some material that doesn't stink up too quickly. I've actually been 25 yards upwind of a buck, and he didn't smell me for awhile. I think that was primarily doing some sort of scent control. Your never going to remove your scent entirely, just reduce it so your not as pungent to the animals nose. They're going to smell you regardless. If your out hunting for several days, turn them inside out, and lay them in the sun for several hours. Let the sun kill some of the oder causing bacteria.

Keep in mind that camo companies, are ALWAYS coming out with some new and improved camo that is , shall we say, "scientifically based" on how ungulates see. I think they do this to stay relevant, but also because they need to keep selling something to stay in business. I think the best time to buy camo, is when one of these companies comes out with a new pattern. They'll want to offload the "old and busted" on clearance, so they can start shilling "the new hotness". It's all marketing, don't fall for it.

Now all said, does one really need the fancy camo? No. Just don't wear cotton directly against your skin, and keep rocking the woodland BDU's and for the most part, you'll be fine. Personally, I like camo, but that fondness only goes so far; because most of it, is a bunch of overpriced **** that does the same thing as some of the "lesser camo".

As an aside, there are three different types of camo.
- Mimicry (think realtree, mossy oak, kings)
-Dispersal (probably not the actual term, think digital patterns. Their main intent is to break up outlines, think Sitka, or any modern military pattern)
-3D ( Think ghillie suit)


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## colorcountrygunner

What do you guys consider a good brand of hunting clothing for being good quality while not being too much of a drain on the wallet? I know you generally get what your pay for but....


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## Ray

colorcountrygunner said:


> What do you guys consider a good brand of hunting clothing for being good quality while not being too much of a drain on the wallet? I know you generally get what your pay for but....


personally, I use Under Armour camo, I run the barren pattern. I’ve never had any issues with it and it has always performed the way it should.

I think as far as price goes, under armour and firstlite are the best balance of performance and price.


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## Lone_Hunter

colorcountrygunner said:


> What do you guys consider a good brand of hunting clothing for being good quality while not being too much of a drain on the wallet? I know you generally get what your pay for but....


If I was starting from scratch, i'd start with midwayUSA (Sale on now). From there, i'd upgrade to and stop at, Kings Camo. First lite, KUIU, Sitka? Don't need em.








Merino Wool Base Layers for Hunting | MidwayUSA


Merino wool base layers are extremely comfortable, moisture wicking, and naturally odor resistant making them the best base layers for hunting. Buy your next pair of base layers today at MidwayUSA!




www.midwayusa.com












Hunting Shirts for Men | Hunting Sweatshirts | MidwayUSA


MidwayUSA carries a full line of Shirts from all the major brands.




www.midwayusa.com












Men's Camo Pants | Insulated Hunting Pants | MidwayUSA


MidwayUSA carries a full line of Pants from all the major brands.




www.midwayusa.com












Hunting Jackets, Coats & Parkas for Sale | MidwayUSA


MidwayUSA carries a full line of Jackets, Coats & Parkas from all the major brands.




www.midwayusa.com





EDIT:
If I was really starting from scratch, i'd start with a pair of BDU pants made by Propper. Not just any BDU pants, you want a cottonPoly *twill*. In general BDU pants come in the following fabrics:

- 100% cotton rip stop. Unless your in a tropical environment, i wouldn't bother. They also shrink if you wash them in warm water and dry with heat.

- NYCO twill. 50% cotton, 50% Nylon. These are your old school "winter weight" BDU's. This material is the most silent while moving, it's very durable. They don't make NYCO pants anymore, so if you find a pair, hang on to them. These are the best BDU's.

- CottonPoly twill. I think it's like 60% cotton, 40% polyester. This is what most reproduction BDU pants are made from nowdays. Its almost as good as nyco. Almost...

- PolyCotton. Generally speaking its like 70% polyester, and 30% cotton. It's usually ripstop, and is what most modern military/tacticool clothing or uniforms is made from. It probably behaves best when wet (as compared to twill), however, it's also the loudest clothing in terms of movement. It's usually stiff. You have the wear it for 3 or 4 days in a row before it stops making noise. I avoid this stuff and stick with a twill.


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## Ray

Badlands is having a 40% sale right now, I haven’t used any of their camo but people seem to like them.

I do have one of their backpacks and a bino case, they work fine


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## CAExpat

"Expensive" is subjective. I will never hunt in denim again, ever. Those that do, good for you; i'm not sure how you're staying dry in inclement weather or putting in the miles during archery. Again, good on you if you can do it. KUIU is not expensive to me, i've purchased 2 pairs of pants in the last 7 years and they've held up exceptionally well. Same for the jacket, it's quiet, well thought out, and has held up perfectly to many hunting and fishing trips. I don't think about camo whatsoever, 90% of my stuff is all solids. KUIU has a big sale every year, take advantage of it. 

Badlands merino isn't bad if purchased on sale, but you can't beat the Black Ovis hoody. It's my absolute favorite piece of clothing for hunting, fishing, scouting, or anything else. The zipoff base layers from KUIU are fantastic as well, really well designed and definitely with me on the late season hunts. It all boils down to your hunting locations, style, and personal preference for fit and function. Again, when factoring all of this, "expensive" is subjective.


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## Lone_Hunter

Ray said:


> Badlands is having a 40% sale right now, I haven’t used any of their camo but people seem to like them.
> 
> I do have one of their backpacks and a bino case, they work fine


Up close badlands is probably ok as a pattern, but from far away, all the miniaturized pattern sort of melts away. I saw a guy in all badlands during archery, from 300 yards or so, he stuck out like a sore thumb. All i saw was a dude in bright sand colored tan.


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## CAExpat

Lone_Hunter said:


> Merino Wool Base Layers for Hunting | MidwayUSA
> 
> 
> Merino wool base layers are extremely comfortable, moisture wicking, and naturally odor resistant making them the best base layers for hunting. Buy your next pair of base layers today at MidwayUSA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.midwayusa.com


Thanks for the link to the merino at Midway, picked up a few pieces to try out. Excellent price!


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## APD

Ray said:


> Badlands is having a 40% sale right now, I haven’t used any of their camo but people seem to like them.
> 
> I do have one of their backpacks and a bino case, they work fine


A lot of camo companies have caught up with the R and D of big companies. They took cues from the performance of large outerwear companies and added a camo pattern. It does 2 things well, performs in the environment it's supposed to and lightens your wallet. 

I use camo when needed, ie archery. I use ski gear and Carhartts for some rifle hunts. I prefer non camo drab colors when hunting. I have flannel shirts that are as good or better than sitka/kuiu in terms of concealment.


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## Ray

At the end of the day, you just gotta do what you feel comfortable with and be happy with your decision. Not everyone hunts the same, or even in similar terrain so the needs from one hunter to the next can vary drastically.

Under armour is having a sale right now so I ordered these bad boys. I like the fact that I can slip them on when it starts raining ☔ fairly easily, to me, it’s worth the money.






Men's Ridge Reaper® GORE-TEX® Pro Shell Pants


Shop Under Armour for Men's Ridge Reaper® GORE-TEX® Pro Shell Pants




www.underarmour.com


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## caddis8

In answer to your question- their profit margin is very good. Having been on the inside of that game for a long time (not there anymore) there is a very healthy profit margin in clothing. That being said, several of the clothing partners (ie GoreTex, Vibram, etc) also want their profit margin, so a decent amount of money does go into components. Zippers and magnets are some of the most expensive components of gear, just so you know. Some of the clothes I've seen have 50-70% retail margins on them pretty regularly. 

The premium brands do cost more to make, but not THAT MUCH more. Sitka does have quality stuff (I have a Sitka jacket that I really like- but was a gift from a vendor). What several of the other "premium brands" did to gain even more margin was to develop a direct to consumer brand like KUIU. They have premium retail and get both margins, the production and retail margins- those have to be very healthy margins. 

Royalties are where a lot of the costs gets put into a piece of clothing. RealTree wants a royalty on any fabric that goes on a garment. While working and dealing with that, we could save a lot of money by using a non branded camo, or a house branded camo. BassPro ended up buying TrueTimber as a camo manufacturor/producer. Imagine a garment that required 2 yards of material. A non-branded camo could be $2 yard, a branded camo could be $4-5/yard. 
I was in the ground blind area, so 10-20 yards of camo could be used, so adding $3 per yard significantly impacted the production cost, throw in top quality zippers (we didn't scrimp with zippers whenever possible), and that can impact a total cost and retail price point so we could optimize cost/margins. To meet production minimums and time frames (I feel really bad for any importer these days), you had to secure camo/fabric 180 days prior to production. We would have fall hunting products finalized by now and ordered January for July/August delivery. 

But to answer your question, camo clothing margins are healthy.


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## Vanilla

I bought camo because the clothing I wanted only came in camo patterns at the time. I'm glad companies are starting to make the same gear in solids because, for the most part, I'd rather be in solids anyway.

And to each their own, but levis and cotton shirts are simply not up to par with other fabrics when it comes to comfort, or more importantly on many days, inclement weather. That is not a personal preference or opinion, it's just a fact. Not every quality piece of clothing costs as much as Sitka costs, but very few brands compare in quality to what Sitka produces either. You can find some exceptions, but they are rare. So as stated above, you get what you pay for. You can pay $20 for a pair of pants and go kill deer and elk. No doubt about it. You may not enjoy your day as much, especially if inclement weather comes through, but you can still do it.


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## caddis8

Vanilla said:


> So as stated above, you get what you pay for. You can pay $20 for a pair of pants and go kill deer and elk. No doubt about it. You may not enjoy your day as much, especially if inclement weather comes through, but you can still do it.


I do a lot of my hunting in my goretex upland brush pants. I don't get wet, and if I'm not wet, I'm usually not cold. But those can be BRUTAL if it's warm and then cools off because of sweat cooling. 

I hunt in a lot of carharts. Killed several elk in Carhart or my brush pants, hardley ever wear camo pants.


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## CPAjeff

My $0.02:

If a person wants to spend their hard earned money on expensive camo, I think they should. I'm cheap - I'd rather experience new and different experiences than have a closet full of the newest and coolest camo. My style of hunting isn't one where I'm beating the brush all day long nor do I need to become invisible to the animals.

These are my go-to pants: Wrangler Men's ATG Performance 5-Pocket Pants

I like to get puffy jackets from the Columbia outlet in Park City when they are on clearance - I see no use in paying $300+ for a puffy jacket with a "name" on it. 

I have a Marmot rain jacket that I got on clearance also - like I said, I'm cheap. I always have a super lightweight tarp with me. If the rain gets too bad, I'll hunker down under the tarp, start a little fire, and have some hot chocolate.

Spending a week hunting in AK this fall really changed the way I look at gear...


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## caddis8

CPAjeff said:


> I'm cheap..... like I said, I'm cheap...


Said by the accountaint! 🤣😂

So, how did the Alaska trip affect your view on gear? Good gear is worth the money. I'm not above spending money on something that will last me. I'm wearing 6 year old boots because I spent a lot of money on them and they hold up. I can't bring myself to wear or buy some of that premium high end stuff.


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## johnnycake

Vanilla said:


> I bought camo because the clothing I wanted only came in camo patterns at the time. I'm glad companies are starting to make the same gear in solids because, for the most part, I'd rather be in solids anyway.
> 
> And to each their own, but levis and cotton shirts are simply not up to par with other fabrics when it comes to comfort, or more importantly on many days, inclement weather. That is not a personal preference or opinion, it's just a fact. Not every quality piece of clothing costs as much as Sitka costs, but very few brands compare in quality to what Sitka produces either. You can find some exceptions, but they are rare. So as stated above, you get what you pay for. You can pay $20 for a pair of pants and go kill deer and elk. No doubt about it. You may not enjoy your day as much, especially if inclement weather comes through, but you can still do it.


It disturbs me how much I agree with you on this. But I'll take Kuiu Yukon rain gear over Sitka everything anytime, reinforced over and over again as various hunting buddies of mine have gone with Sitka (they love that 40% military discount) only to have it fail while I'm still dry.

Only reason my set of Yukon gear is in camo is that they didn't offer it in a solid pattern when I bought it. I don't buy that the camo makes a real difference in my hunting.

For clothing I either just run my Yukon pants and Sheath V underwear (stuff is incredible), or a pair of Costco weatherproof $15 chinos that are fantastic. Pair that with a nylon poly blend shirt of sorts, a $30 Costco down puffy if needed and my Yukon jacket over it all. Works well for everything from -30 to 75F. But I'll spend serious $$$ on high quality wool socks. That's worth far more imo than any camo.

If I were only hunting Utah/mountain west, I would never have bought Kuiu rain gear. Total overkill imo


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## CPAjeff

caddis8 said:


> Said by the accountaint! 🤣😂
> 
> So, how did the Alaska trip affect your view on gear? Good gear is worth the money. I'm not above spending money on something that will last me. I'm wearing 6 year old boots because I spent a lot of money on them and they hold up. I can't bring myself to wear or buy some of that premium high end stuff.


Do you want me to upload the depreciation schedule I have on my cheap gear?!?! 

Honestly, I went out and bought a bunch of new Sitka stuff for the trip (pants, shirts, and coat) . . . maybe I'm not that cheap all the time. The most valuable piece of gear I had in AK was the rain jacket. The trip would have totally sucked if I didn't have that rain jacket. I left all of my normal "go-to" stuff at home (i.e. cheap pants, puffy jacket) when I went to AK and I regretted it. I've since sold all of the Sitka stuff and will just stick with what I know works.


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## Vanilla

johnnycake said:


> It disturbs me how much I agree with you on this. But I'll take Kuiu Yukon rain gear over Sitka everything anytime, reinforced over and over again as various hunting buddies of mine have gone with Sitka (they love that 40% military discount) only to have it fail while I'm still dry.


My statement was vague...and a veiled shot at Sitka in a way. It's good stuff, but I cited it because it is the most expensive of the group of expensive stuff out there. I don't wear Sitka. I don't own a single thing in Sitka, because I think Kuiu is better quality. And when I first started buying Kuiu, it was A LOT cheaper. Not so much anymore, but Kuiu is still better quality, IMO. 

And I'll buy Kuiu rain gear if I want, okay?!?!?!


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## DallanC

I have two pair of camo insulated rain pants. I have two because I forgot I bought one pair, when i ran across the 2nd pair a year later for sale. Its all good, they fit my son or wife as well.

But here's the kicker... I paid less than $35 each...!

One is Coleman brand, the other... I dont recall. They are both super warm, both are rainproof (for now). They have decent sage'ish type camo pattern. They've both been on a dozen or so hunts... so far so good. If they ever start to absorb water, a simple coating of waterproofing spray should be fine. If they ever rip... well, I'll deal with it then. But atm at $35 they have already been well worth the cash.

Watch for deals (I found mine on ebay, new old stock clearance sales). You absolutely do not need high $$$ camo to kill anything. I actually think less when I see a guy in full expensive camo rocking $199 binos. The guy i was most impressed with that I met on the mt one day, had old well worn boots, well worn ball cap, levis, comfortable normal jacket and rocking 8x32 Swaro's. That guy knew what he was doing. We sat and talked for quite a while watching some deer feed past 300 yards away.

-DallanC


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## middlefork

R&D, Sourcing, Marketing, Distribution.
It is crazy how much a lot of that costs. And in general most of the hunting clothing companies are pretty small potatoes when it comes to purchasing and manufacturing. It is actually refreshing to see companies like Wrangler incorporate modern fabrics in their offering.

High performance clothing and equipment has always been expensive. No matter the venue.


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## Ray

Johnny, out of curiosity, what rain gear would you get for Utah? Granted, we don’t get rain anymore, or snow apparently but I’d rather have the gear in my pack and not need it, then need it and not have it. 
I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I have to come off the mountain because of weather, hunger or dehydration, so I make sure I have what I need to stay out, from dark to dark


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## DallanC

??? I was either rained on or snowed on virtually every day of the big game hunts this year. ML season was miserable. Rifle season more so.

-DallanC


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## Ray

Me too, DallanC but Oct was kind of a D-tease, we haven’t had much since


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## DallanC

Gotcha. Opening weekend of rifle season we couldn't access some areas due to 2ft of snow making it impassable. F'ing cold and windy. Clothes held up great, needed better hats and gloves though (got several of each as Christmas presents already )

-DallanC


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## Ray

I was actually very impressed with my wife opening day, there were times we couldn’t even see because of how much snow was blasting us in the face but she kept going and really enjoyed herself. She wound up shooting her buck at about 4pm that day


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## PHall

Lots has been discussed above, but I'll add some insight. Here's some background:
I began working at an outdoor store in 2002ish, while in HS and Boy Scouts. Boy Scout uniforms were never great to hike around in! I continued to work in outdoor retail in the cycling and skiing arenas, and still currently am almost 20 years later. I've had a lot of clinic time with outdoor brands, and worn a lot of different materials. I'll keep it pretty high level.
For me, camo is about being comfortable while being out there. I will not have a single cotton item on me while out hunting. It traps moisture and does not dry quickly. I have a variety of products in Merino wool and synthetic products. 
Regardless of brand, synthetics and wool are superior to maintaining comfort in the field. 
We'll look as Sitka as the example below. 

*Disclaimer I don't know if any of this is TRUE, I'm speaking on my knowledge of how other outdoor products are produced overseas, and applying it to Kings, badlands, and Sitka, as examples
*
Not all synthetics are created equal, where as most merino generally performs at a similar level, but, the higher end products are definitely superior. 

For example, a $20.00 synthetic long sleeve shirt from Walmart wicks moisture well, but a $150 synthetic light weight long-sleeved from Sitka, etc, all maintain a higher level of performance. Sitka is a Gore company, so there is a TON of science and research going into these products to produce the best possible system for those hunting in a variety of conditions. Material costs are relatively cheap, however when you factor in whether or not the brand owns their own facility in Asia (we're excluding all US manufacturing currently, as I haven't had a chance to dive into any of the newer brands that are doing it in the US, which adds substantial cost). 

A brand like Kings or Badlands is most likely made in a factory that pumps out athletic wear for a variety of manufacturers, they have their fabric prints, and are made in large quantities, which is relatively cheaper than a brand like Sitka (which is most likely produced in a GORE owned mfg facility in Asia) with higher quality materials. 
Not saying kings or BL is bad, but just most likely using a different quality of synthetic fabrics at a cheaper MFG cost. Not to mention if its a contract where Kings or BL just says, make this in x pattern out of x material, Sitka may say, make this product out of this material, but it needs to meet more stringent standards and the stitching materials, etc are all higher quality. (Kifaru, in their latest QA podcast, discusses why their packs are more expensive than others, due to using US made, higher quality buckles, camo pattern is actually woven into the fabric, and higher tensile strength thread). 

Then you tack on shipping (freight from Asia, taxes, duties, etc upon landing (each item could be different given the materials and area of origin), shipping from port to warehouse, unboxing and inventorying items in the warehouse, packing the items into boxes shipped to either the end dealer or direct to consumer. There's a lot of costs associated with it, but if you look at Kings vs. Sitka, a Sitka long-sleeved lightweight hoody with a comparable kings might be $150 vs $100 at retail, however Kings has (most likely) less overhead cost and more distribution to larger (Box) stores, so their cost to a retailer may be 1/4 to 1/2 the cots of a Sitka piece. 

Using the bike example, Huffy is produced in X factory that produces probably 15-20 other bike brand products in Asia, and use lower quality metals in their bike frames over someone like Niner bikes, which is a high end MTB producer who manufacturers frames in the same factory. More expansive QC measures, etc. Huffy has a setup, but Niner may have a larger list of requirements the frames need to meet in terms of fit and finish and tolerances before that frame leaves the factory. Same factory, two vastly different bikes coming out of it. 

Hope this is coherent!


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## CAExpat

Whatever happened to Game Gear? They used to have a full line of hunting clothes that I _thought _was made in USA. I used to live right down the road from KUIU so being able to try stuff on was most important. I haven't had to replace any KUIU in years but when the time comes, I would like to see what other options are out there. As previously mentioned, KUIU used to be A LOT lower priced then they are currently, and for many of the reasons mentioned above as well. Any other US or non CCP made merino/synthetic clothing options?


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## johnnycake

Ray said:


> Johnny, out of curiosity, what rain gear would you get for Utah? Granted, we don’t get rain anymore, or snow apparently but I’d rather have the gear in my pack and not need it, then need it and not have it.
> I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I have to come off the mountain because of weather, hunger or dehydration, so I make sure I have what I need to stay out, from dark to dark


Honestly in UT all I ever used for rain gear were cheapo clear plastic ponchos over whatever my normal everyday rain jacket was at the time. Never was a problem for me.


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## High Desert Elk

Why is camo so expensive? Because it's cool. It's a fashion statement. And, we all know the only way to shoot 380" bulls and 215" mule deer is to wear a really cool camo pattern. Especially when you stick out like a sore thumb, as in a gray and brown KUIU pattern against lush green grass.

I might wear a camo top to help break up an outline, but always wear drab solids on bottom . That way you don't look like a dork when you walk into Smith's or Albertson's on your way home to pick up a gallon milk.

As far as functionality goes, anything with DWR fabric is usually pretty good for most of the lower 48 in semi-normal late fall/winter hunting.

Still liking the BlackOvis Cottonwood Creek line. Functional and affordable. You also don't have to sing the blues when you get that L-shape tear when misjudging a barb-wire fence crossing...


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## Old Cowboy

For the most part Camo is a damned fashion show. Spend your money on quality clothing that will keep you warm and dry and learn how to hunt. I hunted for over 65 years in levis and a plaid shirt and was always successful.


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## backcountry

Agree there margins are healthy. And quality technical textiles (basically anything designed to wick/bead moisture, or retain or shed heat) is more expensive to produce. Things like quality zippers really matter when you are deep in an adventure. And Sitka and the like manage price points aggressively for a variety of reasons (it can be a nightmare for a brand for one seller to massively underprice gear in the online world).

But from a standpoint on local stores selling the stuff, at least the few left, they can often sit on tens of thousands dollars of technical gear/inventory that may or may not sell. I've known owners of a few stores, not related to hunting, and it can be a big financial risk season from season. Big chains have different risk structures but the price control often has to take smaller businesses into account.


----------



## StorminNorman

I couldn't agree more on the first place you should spend your money is optics and the last is what you wear. Quality does matter but I don't necessarily think quality has to equal 4x the cost of sub par products.
I think it's hilarious whoever was on that podcast trying to explain why their backpacks are so expensive trying to claim that its buckles and thread. Ha ha yeah, nice try. He just likes that hefty profit margin. 
Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it! I just got me a Killik jacket a couple weeks ago because I liked the feel of it, I liked where the pockets were and it was more in my price range. Also, I liked the big sky pattern being more blotchy than detailed because I don't think the animals are looking at the detail in the camo, just like someone said, its more about breaking your outline up. In all honesty, I don't think camo patterns matter too much anyway. I wear solids on bottom for the most part. In my opinion, what matters most is the layer that's touching your skin, whether that be your core or your hands and feet. Wicking base layer and socks will do wonders compared to sweating your behind off in cotton and then sitting down to glass and having a nice case of hypothermia set in. It's a night and day difference when you have those base layers that work properly. It sounds like most of you are in it for the comfortability and quality, which is awesome to hear. Broken in boots are extremely important as well. I thought I had my new boots broken in and went out this weekend and got a blister on my heel real quick. Nothing will shut you down faster than foot issues. Luckily, I had a package of moleskin padding, slapped some of that on and I was good to go! If that's not in your pack, I would highly suggest getting you some. It's incredible stuff!
I'll just keep laughing at the fellas with thousands of dollars spent in gear while they are driving back and forth in their jacked up truck and only jump down to take their little peter out, if they can find it, for some relief. 
If I can summarize, get quality gear that performs well for your conditions, who cares what it looks like, and if you can afford the high end stuff then good for you! But it has nothing to do with hunting, you just like to look pretty. And if that's the case, you better have some Swaro's around your neck and not some great value bino's! Ha ha
All said, I have no clue what I'm talking about so take that into account. And when I say something, I'm joking 95% of the time. I like to keep it light and fun and were all here to enjoy the same thing! Doesn't mean we can't poke some fun every once in a while.


----------



## BigT

I've tried a little of everything over the years. Since discovering 4-way stretch pants, I have not put another pair of levi's on. Love the merino I've accumulated over the last few years. Some have mentioned First Lite. It is quite costly. I own my fair share, but I've not had to pay close to retail for it. When it comes to a puffy packing jacket, I think I have a 32 degrees brand that I found on clearance a few years back for under $10. Works great under my shell jacket.

Base layers are very important as many have mentioned. I've gotten completely away from full camo, to camo tops and solid bottoms. I do get the more expensive socks. I always thought those would be a waste of money, but after trying a few pair I had my mind completely changed.

The reality is, I've harvested deer and elk in camo, levi's, heck even basketball shorts. But lately as I spend more time in the brush, I like comfort, breathability, and durability. Some patterns look better than others. Not sure how much that actually matters!

I have not personally tried those Wrangler 4-way stretch pants, but I've bought them for my boys and they seem to fit those three things I mentioned above. I have a pair of Crispi Crossover Pro Light GTX that I absolutely love. Man those things are comfy... Black Ovis has a great deal on them right now too. At least for Crispi anyways!


----------



## DallanC

Wait... stretch pants on a dude... errrr... you lost me.

-DallanC


----------



## CPAjeff

DallanC said:


> Wait... stretch pants on a dude... errrr... you lost me.
> 
> -DallanC


Yes, stretchy pants!! Don’t knock it until you try it! 😉


----------



## BigT

DallanC said:


> Wait... stretch pants on a dude... errrr... you lost me.
> 
> -DallanC


I didn't say yoga pants!


----------



## CAExpat




----------



## Critter




----------



## CAExpat




----------



## StorminNorman

BigT and others, what kind of socks are you guys "running"? If they're anything besides your normal socks.
I got some from Christmas a year or two back that say Realtree on the side lol Santa must've saw them in the "tacky hunter stocking suffer" section ha ha. But I haven't found a pair I'm sold on quite yet. Thoughts?


----------



## Ray

I like smartwool socks


----------



## Vanilla

Darn Tough makes AWESOME socks! Give them a look. It’s well worth your time. (And money) 

And I laugh at Dallan’s “stretchy pants on a guy” comment. About a month ago I put on a classic pair of jeans I hadn’t worn in forever. It was the first time in probably 18 months since I’d worn jeans. They are so unbelievably uncomfortable. I doubt I will ever put them on again as long as I live.


----------



## BigT

I started buying some merino or smart wool on Camofire. But then started getting the First Lite socks. I like the over the calf socks. Camofire will often times have some good deals on socks. I think I've tried some Lorpen socks, and have a couple pair of Danner socks. I actually really like the Danner socks. They're very comfortable, warm, and breathable. I would rate them first First Lite, Danner, and then Lorpen. Socks are crazy expensive... Even on Camofire, and with getting deals on the others. I've heard a lot of good things about the Darn Tough socks, but I've not tried them.


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Expensive, but I have a couple pairs out of spite of mountain maggots (they ruin so many hunting areas, may as well get some use out of them), and maybe support the local economy.








Amazon.com: GRIP6 Wool Socks Mens | Thick Wool Hiking Socks | Overland Orange Medium : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry


Buy GRIP6 Wool Socks Mens | Thick Wool Hiking Socks | Overland Orange Medium: Shop top fashion brands Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry at Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY and Returns possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## CHIEF_10_BEERS

Don't knock the "stretchy pants" until you try them. The first ones I tried was the Wrangler Adventure gear 4 way stretch pants. They're only like 20$ a pair and around 40$ for fleece lined ones. I've been trying to "modernize" my hunting clothing this year to better fabrics with a focus on comfort. The only thing I don't like about the Wrangler pants are the pockets. They are all to small and I don't care for the zippered side pockets. Other than that they are the most comfortable pants I've worn.

I ended up buying a pair of these from Deluth Trading Co. 





Men's DuluthFlex Dry on the Fly Relaxed Fit Cargo Pants | Duluth Trading Company


With a new fit, triple-stitched seams and handier pockets, this fast-drying legend is ready to take care of business on any soggy jobsite. Get 'em only from Duluth!




www.duluthtrading.com





I've Had the Deluth Firehose work pants and They last forever but are made of cotton. These are 97% Nylon, 3% Spandex, Dry On The Fly and plenty of man sized pockets. On sale I got them for 65$. They're normally around 85$. That's not even half of what I've seen some guys pay for pants to hunt in. Then they drop another 200$ dollars for matching tops, just to end up looking like they're wearing a pair of kids pajamas everywhere.


----------



## Lone_Hunter

I'll give "Athletic fit" pants one thing, they don't make as much noise. That said, they sometimes pinch the boys when you sit down. A pair of kings camo XKG preacher pants is about as tight fitting as I can stand. 

In an ideal world, someone, somewhere, makes NYCO BDU pants in some shade of coyote brown in some hunting pattern , but we don't live in an ideal world. If I had the tailor pattern, the machinery, and the skill, i'd make some and start a buisness selling them. It's funny, ALL BDU's are in old school military patterns, and if you do find some in some hunting pattern, odds are they're crap.


----------



## johnnycake

Just sayin', those weatherproof chinos at Costco have 4 way stretch. Since finding them a couple years back they've replaced basically all other pants in my life. And the dual pouch system in Sheath underwear keeps the boys from getting pinched, sat on, stuck to your leg, or your rod sticking to your sack--no need for gold bond, and eliminates chafing.

Darn Tough socks are great. I love the socks I have from The Buffalo Wool Co.


----------



## caddis8

johnnycake said:


> And the dual pouch system in Sheath underwear keeps the boys from getting pinched, sat on, stuck to your leg, or your rod sticking to your sack--no need for gold bond, and eliminates chafing.


Well sir, the bidet actually covers almost all of that. If I could only bring that with me on my backcountry adventures. I have some 4 way stretch Carhartt type pants. Game changers. Can wear them out or to church in a pinch, and can hunt. They're stretchy, comfy, and don't tell me I'm fat like jeans do.


----------



## johnnycake

caddis8 said:


> Well sir, the bidet actually covers almost all of that. If I could only bring that with me on my backcountry adventures. I have some 4 way stretch Carhartt type pants. Game changers. Can wear them out or to church in a pinch, and can hunt. They're stretchy, comfy, and don't tell me I'm fat like jeans do.


You sir sound like you're ready for the next step in comfort evolution. Imagine boxer briefs with a separate pouch for your package, and another separate compartment to stick your shaft in. It's phenomenal


----------



## Critter

This thread needs some pictures


----------



## caddis8

johnnycake said:


> You sir sound like you're ready for the next step in comfort evolution. Imagine boxer briefs with a separate pouch for your package, and another separate compartment to stick your shaft in. It's phenomenal


Whoa. That's serious. I've been wearing the same underbritches for a very long time. Well not the same pair, but same style. I've tried others and haven't loved them. I always go back to the same style. Mesh. Yes. White mesh. Breathable, not restrictive. There are very few experiences as wonderful, nay, almost spiritual to be able to climb to the top of a mountain, drop drawers, and feel the wind through the mesh or natural. 

But I can't wear them to ref basketball. That's where the sheath may come in. I will explore them. Do they come in large size and small uh...compartment? 🤣 😂


----------



## StorminNorman

I have to say, buying a bidet has probably been the single best purchase of my life thus far. I'm trying to get family to buy them as well 1. so they have them at their house for when I visit 2. so they can experience the greatness and glory of the most notable invention of mankind. They don't seem to understand how lifechanging it can be and how they will look back and wonder how survival was possible without.

It sounds like I need to step up my undergarment game though...


----------



## caddis8

StorminNorman said:


> I have to say, buying a bidet has probably been the single best purchase of my life thus far. I'm trying to get family to buy them as well 1. so they have them at their house for when I visit 2. so they can experience the greatness and glory of the most notable invention of mankind. They don't seem to understand how lifechanging it can be and how they will look back and wonder how survival was possible without.


In laws have them. I told my mother I was buying one for when I visit and she said no. I said, yes, if you want me to visit. I will be purchasing one shortly. Peasants.


----------



## Vanilla

They have "travel" bidets, folks. Even ones that could easily slip into a hunting pack, you just need a water source to fill the bottle. Just sayin!


----------



## johnnycake

StorminNorman said:


> I have to say, buying a bidet has probably been the single best purchase of my life thus far. I'm trying to get family to buy them as well 1. so they have them at their house for when I visit 2. so they can experience the greatness and glory of the most notable invention of mankind. They don't seem to understand how lifechanging it can be and how they will look back and wonder how survival was possible without.
> 
> It sounds like I need to step up my undergarment game though...


You're alright. 

And Critter, you're welcome.


----------



## caddis8

Vanilla said:


> They have "travel" bidets, folks. Even ones that could easily slip into a hunting pack, you just need a water source to fill the bottle. Just sayin!


Based on my shooting in other arenas, I'm not sure I'd trust my shooting there.


----------



## DallanC

Well this thread has thoroughly gone off the rails... but, as long as we're going completely sideways... bidet's in the field and such. If you have wives and girlfriends who hunt or enjoy the outdoors. Get'em a Tinklebell for Christmas. My wife learned of this from her sister and got one, absolutely loves it.









Amazon.com : The Tinkle Belle Female Urination Device | Portable Urinal with Case! Stand to Pee While Staying Fully Clothed! Easy, Compact, Reliable for Hiking/Camping/Travel/Concerts/Festivals/Dirty Toilets : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : The Tinkle Belle Female Urination Device | Portable Urinal with Case! Stand to Pee While Staying Fully Clothed! Easy, Compact, Reliable for Hiking/Camping/Travel/Concerts/Festivals/Dirty Toilets : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com





The website used to have a picture of 3 women pee'ing off a bridge... kindof a wtf moment rofl.

-DallanC


----------



## Lone_Hunter

Ok... i can't resist.


----------



## caddis8

DallanC said:


> Well this thread has thoroughly gone off the rails... but, as long as we're going completely sideways... bidet's in the field and such. If you have wives and girlfriends who hunt or enjoy the outdoors. Get'em a Tinklebell for Christmas. My wife learned of this from her sister and got one, absolutely loves it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : The Tinkle Belle Female Urination Device | Portable Urinal with Case! Stand to Pee While Staying Fully Clothed! Easy, Compact, Reliable for Hiking/Camping/Travel/Concerts/Festivals/Dirty Toilets : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : The Tinkle Belle Female Urination Device | Portable Urinal with Case! Stand to Pee While Staying Fully Clothed! Easy, Compact, Reliable for Hiking/Camping/Travel/Concerts/Festivals/Dirty Toilets : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The website used to have a picture of 3 women pee'ing off a bridge... kindof a wtf moment rofl.
> 
> -DallanC


Camo isn't nearly as essential as clean and tidy nether regions. I may have caused the distraction.


----------



## johnnycake

DallanC said:


> Well this thread has thoroughly gone off the rails... but, as long as we're going completely sideways... bidet's in the field and such. If you have wives and girlfriends who hunt or enjoy the outdoors. Get'em a Tinklebell for Christmas. My wife learned of this from her sister and got one, absolutely loves it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : The Tinkle Belle Female Urination Device | Portable Urinal with Case! Stand to Pee While Staying Fully Clothed! Easy, Compact, Reliable for Hiking/Camping/Travel/Concerts/Festivals/Dirty Toilets : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : The Tinkle Belle Female Urination Device | Portable Urinal with Case! Stand to Pee While Staying Fully Clothed! Easy, Compact, Reliable for Hiking/Camping/Travel/Concerts/Festivals/Dirty Toilets : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The website used to have a picture of 3 women pee'ing off a bridge... kindof a wtf moment rofl.
> 
> -DallanC


My wife swears by her Gal Pal


----------



## Critter

johnnycake said:


> You're alright.
> 
> And Critter, you're welcome.
> View attachment 150534



Now those are what I need for my upcoming hernia surgery Thursday.


----------



## johnnycake

Critter said:


> Now those are what I need for my upcoming hernia surgery Thursday.


Be sure to ask for a mirror and local anesthesia only so you can watch.


----------



## High Desert Elk

BigT said:


> I didn't say yoga pants!


Or skinny jeans.


----------



## Critter

johnnycake said:


> Be sure to ask for a mirror and local anesthesia only so you can watch.


I wondered about doing that. I can ask for it to be filmed and then watch it on one of the monitors in the OR.

I did watch a sinus surgery that I had done on YouTube and it was quite interesting once you got past the gross factor.

Cataract surgery is cool to watch.


----------



## PBH

So, I guess I need to chime in.....

I'm cool. I'm fashionable. I wear Sitka. And some Badlands. And some Kryptek, UA, and Columbia. I determine to buy something based off the following:
A. Comfort
B. price / is it on sale?
D. Do my in-laws wear it? I buy the opposite of what they buy.



As far as rain gear goes, I had some "Ranger bucks" to spend when I bought my boat. So I bought a Frogg Toggs rain suit. It's pretty nice. But I don't trust it for "real" rain. Anyone using nylon or gortex somewhere that it might rain non-stop for a week (ie: Canada, Alaska), is crazy. That stuff will eventually start to leak. So if you are wearing a fancy name-brand rain suit, I certainly do hope you are also wearing the matching synthetic or wool (expensive!) base layers so you can stay warm as you slowly soak through!

If you really want rain gear that will keep you dry, go spend $40 and buy a PVC or rubber rain suit.



I love my Sitka pants -- but for the love of all that is Holy, why do they not have rear pockets???
And why, oh why, did Badlands use a loop-and-button for their rear pockets?
And why did Kryptek not put any type of closure on their rear pockets?

(I just want a rear pocket with a zipper like every other pocket on the garment!)


----------



## Ray

I got a rear pocket with a zipper on my UA pants 😎


----------



## Ray

Ha! New gear actually just showed up. Goretex pants, another pair of pants, long sleeve shirt and some boots


----------



## StorminNorman

PBH said:


> So, I guess I need to chime in.....
> 
> I'm cool. I'm fashionable. I wear Sitka. And some Badlands. And some Kryptek, UA, and Columbia. I determine to buy something based off the following:
> A. Comfort
> B. price / is it on sale?
> D. Do my in-laws wear it? I buy the opposite of what they buy.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as rain gear goes, I had some "Ranger bucks" to spend when I bought my boat. So I bought a Frogg Toggs rain suit. It's pretty nice. But I don't trust it for "real" rain. Anyone using nylon or gortex somewhere that it might rain non-stop for a week (ie: Canada, Alaska), is crazy. That stuff will eventually start to leak. So if you are wearing a fancy name-brand rain suit, I certainly do hope you are also wearing the matching synthetic or wool (expensive!) base layers so you can stay warm as you slowly soak through!
> 
> If you really want rain gear that will keep you dry, go spend $40 and buy a PVC or rubber rain suit.
> 
> 
> 
> I love my Sitka pants -- but for the love of all that is Holy, why do they not have rear pockets???
> And why, oh why, did Badlands use a loop-and-button for their rear pockets?
> And why did Kryptek not put any type of closure on their rear pockets?
> 
> (I just want a rear pocket with a zipper like every other pocket on the garment!)


What happened to C?


----------



## PBH

StorminNorman said:


> What happened to C?


C. Christmas gift (didn't buy it myself)


----------



## PBH

Ray said:


> Ha! New gear actually just showed up. Goretex pants, another pair of pants, long sleeve shirt and some boots


I tried a pair of UA boots once. I love their shoes. But I'll never buy another pair of UA boots again!


----------



## Ray

PBH said:


> I tried a pair of UA boots once. I love their shoes. But I'll never buy another pair of UA boots again!


What happened to your UA boots? I also have a pair of Kenetrek mountains extremes coming


----------



## High Desert Elk

PBH said:


> So, I guess I need to chime in.....
> 
> I'm cool. I'm fashionable. I wear Sitka. And some Badlands. And some Kryptek, UA, and Columbia. I determine to buy something based off the following:
> A. Comfort
> B. price / is it on sale?
> D. Do my in-laws wear it? I buy the opposite of what they buy.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as rain gear goes, I had some "Ranger bucks" to spend when I bought my boat. So I bought a Frogg Toggs rain suit. It's pretty nice. But I don't trust it for "real" rain. Anyone using nylon or gortex somewhere that it might rain non-stop for a week (ie: Canada, Alaska), is crazy. That stuff will eventually start to leak. So if you are wearing a fancy name-brand rain suit, I certainly do hope you are also wearing the matching synthetic or wool (expensive!) base layers so you can stay warm as you slowly soak through!
> 
> If you really want rain gear that will keep you dry, go spend $40 and buy a PVC or rubber rain suit.
> 
> 
> 
> I love my Sitka pants -- but for the love of all that is Holy, why do they not have rear pockets???
> And why, oh why, did Badlands use a loop-and-button for their rear pockets?
> And why did Kryptek not put any type of closure on their rear pockets?
> 
> (I just want a rear pocket with a zipper like every other pocket on the garment!)


Rear pockets would increase the cost by 25% for use of extra proprietary Sitka material and logos.


----------



## Vanilla

My Kuiu pants have rear pockets with zippers. Not to remind you that it’s better quality, or anything…


----------



## PBH

That's it. I'm heading to Sportsman's to see what they don't have on their shelves so that I can't buy some new Kuiu pants with zippered rear pockets!



My UA boots simply fell apart after 1 archery hunt.
My in-laws wear Kenetrek. So I naturally buy Lowa boots.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> That's it. I'm heading to Sportsman's to see what they don't have on their shelves so that I can't buy some new Kuiu pants with zippered rear pockets!



If Sportys is the extent of your universe, prepare to be disappointed! 

Just order the same size of pant you overpaid for in Sitka in the Kuiu Attack pant. You’re welcome. (You could have just got them at 25% off last week.)


----------



## PBH

camofire has some King's xkg sonora pants for $55 today. 

When I'm actually in the market for camo, I usually start watching camofire for deals. Then I compare to Amazon.


----------



## High Desert Elk

PBH said:


> camofire has some King's xkg sonora pants for $55 today.
> 
> When I'm actually in the market for camo, I usually start watching camofire for deals. Then I compare to Amazon.


Nothing at all wrong with King's brand. And, you don't even have to feel compelled to wear a flat-brim hat.


----------



## Critter

Do they still have the outlet store for Kings Cammo over in Lindon? 

I stopped by there a couple of times but since I am 6'4" they never had any tall clothing so I never picked up anything there, but I know quite a few hunters who have.


----------



## High Desert Elk

Critter said:


> Do they still have the outlet store for Kings Cammo over in Lindon?
> 
> I stopped by there a couple of times but since I am 6'4" they never had any tall clothing so I never picked up anything there, but I know quite a few hunters who have.


Yes, at least they did when I stopped by in August. No reason to think they're relocated.


----------



## RandomElk16

Ray said:


> For me, it’s about protection from the elements, I hunt hard and spend the entire day in the woods, rain or snow, so I need equipment that will keep me warm and dry, no matter the circumstance.


This for sure.. but what's funny is you can get that same protection in a single color for less than half the price lol. 

It's the pattern that costs.


----------



## natehunts

colorcountrygunner said:


> What do you guys consider a good brand of hunting clothing for being good quality while not being too much of a drain on the wallet? I know you generally get what your pay for but....


I started my venture with high quality hunting gear with KUIU. I liked some of their stuff OK. In my experience, they aren't that durable. I have since switched to a local Utah company called SKRE Gear, New-home, in St. George. I really like their stuff and they are priced lower than the other big guys. But the best thing about them, is that once you order, they will pay for shipping back and forth until you get fitted correctly. I hated having to pay for shipping back to KUIU to return something and try a different size. 
Once you get hip vents to dump heat, you'll never go back! lol


----------



## StorminNorman

natehunts said:


> I started my venture with high quality hunting gear with KUIU. I liked some of their stuff OK. In my experience, they aren't that durable. I have since switched to a local Utah company called SKRE Gear, New-home, in St. George. I really like their stuff and they are priced lower than the other big guys. But the best thing about them, is that once you order, they will pay for shipping back and forth until you get fitted correctly. I hated having to pay for shipping back to KUIU to return something and try a different size.
> Once you get hip vents to dump heat, you'll never go back! lol


That's cool! I'd also like to support a local company. I'll go check them out


----------



## APD

PBH said:


> My UA boots simply fell apart after 1 archery hunt.
> My in-laws wear Kenetrek. So I naturally buy Lowa boots.


Mine didn't last long either. They never needed break in but broke down rather quickly. Blown stitches and separated soles were what I remember.


----------



## TheOtherJeff

I tend to buy military surplus gear simply because I feel like I'm playing dress-up in the big-name camos. That's just me, of course. I have only one piece of camo hunting clothing (Smock, Combat, Windproof, Desert DPM, 1 ea.); everything else is solid earth-tones or blaze orange. My best investment has been an Austrian model M-65 field jacket in basic OD, which is waterproof/breathable but looks much better than ECWCS, especially in town. One downside is that both of the jackets are First Sergeant proof: no pockets to put your hands in.

My pack, however, is cobbled together with four different camo patterns, guaranteeing that I'll stand out in any environment on Earth. I feel good about that, as I spent under $200 while the Army spent millions to get that same level of performance from ACUs.


----------



## TheOtherJeff

caddis8 said:


> Mesh. Yes. White mesh.


You and John Winger.


----------



## DreadedBowHunter

I use Kings Camo and Cabelas Strata patterns. I buy the clearance stuff at a fraction of the retail price. Desert Shadow is THE BEST pattern for when I’m hunting in the sage brush and junipers. I’ve walked two feet from a Turkey that didn’t see me and I can get within 30 yards of deer that don’t see me unless I move fast. The Strata pattern I use when I’m higher up in elevation to match the pines etc. I use the Kings Snow Shadow pattern when trekking through the snow for Cougars and turkeys etc. The patterns matching the vegetation does matter as some people say it doesn’t. If you can blend in then animals can’t see you if you aren’t scenting then you are completely invisible in my opinion. I can wear my full gear and have my dad not even see me 20 yards away sometimes I can just walk off and sit down within 30 seconds he will not know where I am, and I’ve done that with animals that have seen me already to have them get scared that I disappeared while I’m staring at them etc.
The material is the most important. Layers or breathable fabrics matter the most to keep you comfortable to stay in the files the longest possible. If you’re cold you must get to warmth if you’re burning up hot you must shed those materials ASAP or you could get hurt wearing them. I only wear cotton in the spring and in summer I use performance jersey material from Killik as an athlete would be while doing sports etc. Fall and Winter I have specific materials that allow me to either be moving and venting or stillness with warming material. Coldest I’ve ever hunted is minus 5 and it started to get cold on my eyeballs so now I know I need goggles so my eyes don’t shatter.
I don’t believe in high end camo because to me you’re buying the embroidery brand label for 5 times the actual garment. But I also don’t buy high end guns or bows because I can get the same result as someone that bought the best while I saved the money etc.
Camo does have its place in the hunting realm but what I find funny is they have most expensive Camo and then they have half their body covered in blaze orange 🤣 That's why I like Bow Season the best. But sometimes I hunt with a black jacket and cargos and it’s because I’ve concealed myself from spot and stalking, so camo is important but you don’t always have to wear it if it correlates with how you are hunting. I have noticed when fishing if I wear a blue shirt I catch more bass off their bed than scaring them off wearing a shirt that doesn’t match the sky. 🤔
So long story even longer I use Kings Camo Desert and Mountain plus Snow Shadow, Cabela’s Strata and Killik veil patterns to do my work but sometimes just wear black jacket with earthy pants. Clearance prices only or I’ll wait another year for a sale if I have to.


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## Vanilla

natehunts said:


> I started my venture with high quality hunting gear with KUIU. I liked some of their stuff OK. In my experience, they aren't that durable. I have since switched to a local Utah company called SKRE Gear, New-home, in St. George. I really like their stuff and they are priced lower than the other big guys. But the best thing about them, is that once you order, they will pay for shipping back and forth until you get fitted correctly. I hated having to pay for shipping back to KUIU to return something and try a different size.
> Once you get hip vents to dump heat, you'll never go back! lol


I really wanted to like SKRE. I really did. I too love the idea of supporting a local company. They have patterned their products after Kuiu. The cut, lineup, etc., is basically the same. I talked with Mike for a long time at the expo the first year he was there, right after they started up. We were the first people in his booth and got a free hat. 


But it just isn’t as nice. It is less expensive, and it’s decent stuff, but I just don’t feel it’s on par. It is not a bad option for quality gear, but you are giving up a little bit there, IMO.


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## Vanilla

PBH, a delivery came yesterday and I can confirm the Kuiu Guide pants STILL have rear zippers. (And hip vents, which mentioned above, are game changers.)


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## PBH

Thanks Vanilla! I'll get you my address so you can get them delivered over to me!


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## Rubythroat

It is nice to have nice stuff, but if on a hunting budget, you can pinch pennies by getting basic solids. I have used a few earthy colored plaid and solid wool-blend flannel shirts, some water resistant dark tan cargo pants and a variety of earthy hats... always get the best boots you can afford! Weather permitting, I still choose to wear a brown duck canvas vest or coat that has been treated for water resistance.

If you want to go cheap and DIY, I have even taken an old blue canvas field coat that I couldn't wear in public anymore (without hearing about it from the mrs.), patched it up a bit, bleached the color out of it and dyed it with splotches of tans, browns, olive and greys... then waxed it. It works really well for waterfowl. (And it was fun to do with the kids, they helped with some spoltches). It looks like that old school duck camo that some companies put out, like drake.

Everyone here has nailed it: comfort and element protection first, be quiet and hold still second, good woodsmanship, smart "scent management" practices, colors that blend with the environment you wish to hunt, clearance camo sections if you want it.

On another note, I tend to do more upland than anything else.. and I wear the most obnoxious and brightest, most ungodly concoction of oranges and other colored shirts/hoodies/coats and hats I can find in my wardrobe - I had what I will call an "experience" that left me wanting to stay extremely visable when trying to flush birds while other hunters are nearby - scared the **** out of me! Stay safe!


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## natehunts

Vanilla said:


> I really wanted to like SKRE. I really did. I too love the idea of supporting a local company. They have patterned their products after Kuiu. The cut, lineup, etc., is basically the same. I talked with Mike for a long time at the expo the first year he was there, right after they started up. We were the first people in his booth and got a free hat.
> 
> 
> But it just isn’t as nice. It is less expensive, and it’s decent stuff, but I just don’t feel it’s on par. It is not a bad option for quality gear, but you are giving up a little bit there, IMO.


Ya, I would maybe also say they aren’t as “technical” as KUIU or maybe Sitka, but from my experience with KUIU pants, I believe SKRE are superior in comfort and durability. I think, at least KUIU, sacrifices durability for ultra light weight. This could be completely out of the norm, but I started with KUIUs Chinook pant, first time out, ripped. Ordered the attack, first day out, ripped. Ordered the guide, second weekend hunt, ripped. Ordered their more durable guide pro pant, ripped first day again! To be fair, I had a pair of Attack pants to wear at home, they never ripped. I thought about ordering their Kutana pant and try out, but the SKRE Hardscrabble I had also been hunting with for a few years had zero rips and was just as breathable, DWR and more comfortable. Also to be fair. My nephew has been hunting in KUIU pants for 2 seasons with no ripped pants. I don’t know what happened with me, maybe just bad luck. But I’ve been very satisfied with SKRE. However, I do love my KUIU Pro pack.


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## Vanilla

That’s wild on all those ripped pants! I wouldn’t use them anymore if that was my experience either. I’ve never had an issue with any piece of clothing of theirs. I like some more than others. My first pair of Attack pants are 9 years old and I wear them every year still. And they have zippers on the rear pockets…


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## johnnycake

natehunts said:


> Ya, I would maybe also say they aren’t as “technical” as KUIU or maybe Sitka, but from my experience with KUIU pants, I believe SKRE are superior in comfort and durability. I think, at least KUIU, sacrifices durability for ultra light weight. This could be completely out of the norm, but I started with KUIUs Chinook pant, first time out, ripped. Ordered the attack, first day out, ripped. Ordered the guide, second weekend hunt, ripped. Ordered their more durable guide pro pant, ripped first day again!


For durability, it is very hard to beat the Kuiu Yukon pants and jacket.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> And they have zippers on the rear pockets…



Look -- just having pockets is an upgrade! My sitka pants DON'T HAVE rear pockets, let alone a zipper closure!

Sitka's website makes no mention of rear pockets on their pants! My Dockers have rear pockets, and are beige in color. Maybe I should wear them hunting? BYU has won a handful of games this year, making "Sundays in the woods" a more common occurance!


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## MadHunter

DallanC said:


> I hunt in Levis and an olive drab jacket. /shrug
> 
> -DallanC


Gimmicks! Pricy ones is all it is. I use carharts to hunt. The only reason I do not use levis/jeans is because blue is a very bright color to the eye spectrum of ungulates. Buy khaki/brown carhart stuff and you're good to go.


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## High Desert Elk

Vanilla said:


> That’s wild on all those ripped pants! I wouldn’t use them anymore if that was my experience either. I’ve never had an issue with any piece of clothing of theirs. I like some more than others. My first pair of Attack pants are 9 years old and I wear them every year still. And they have zippers on the rear pockets…


I will say that any First Lite trousers I've owned have fallen apart at the seams in high movement areas without much wear use. Horrible stitching pattern...


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## natehunts

Vanilla said:


> That’s wild on all those ripped pants! I wouldn’t use them anymore if that was my experience either. I’ve never had an issue with any piece of clothing of theirs. I like some more than others. My first pair of Attack pants are 9 years old and I wear them every year still. And they have zippers on the rear pockets…


Ya, I'm sure I just had a weird streak of bad luck with them. But I've hunted the same terrain in my SKRE for years now and they're still in great shape. For that, I wouldn't go back to KUIU. But I'd be willing to try other brands that also have hip vents.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> Look -- just having pockets is an upgrade! My sitka pants DON'T HAVE rear pockets, let alone a zipper closure!


Seems like you should stop buying inferior, yet more expensive gear! I can help you solve this problem pretty easily.


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## StorminNorman

natehunts said:


> Ya, I would maybe also say they aren’t as “technical” as KUIU or maybe Sitka, but from my experience with KUIU pants, I believe SKRE are superior in comfort and durability. I think, at least KUIU, sacrifices durability for ultra light weight. This could be completely out of the norm, but I started with KUIUs Chinook pant, first time out, ripped. Ordered the attack, first day out, ripped. Ordered the guide, second weekend hunt, ripped. Ordered their more durable guide pro pant, ripped first day again! To be fair, I had a pair of Attack pants to wear at home, they never ripped. I thought about ordering their Kutana pant and try out, but the SKRE Hardscrabble I had also been hunting with for a few years had zero rips and was just as breathable, DWR and more comfortable. Also to be fair. My nephew has been hunting in KUIU pants for 2 seasons with no ripped pants. I don’t know what happened with me, maybe just bad luck. But I’ve been very satisfied with SKRE. However, I do love my KUIU Pro pack.


Are you doing a baseball slide down the side of a shale infested mountainside?! Good lord lol


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## johnnycake

StorminNorman said:


> Are you doing a baseball slide down the side of a shale infested mountainside?! Good lord lol


That may or may not be my preferred descent style in many areas. And that may or may not be why Kuiu has replaced my pants 5 times in 4 years due to the seam on the seat coming apart.


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## Lone_Hunter

Kings has had an ongoing 50% off sale.








Mountain Shadow® | Highly Realistic Mountain Camo | King's Camo


King's Camo Mountain Shadow® is the most realistic and effective camo for mid to high elevations. It's high-definition features and detailed depth of feel provides concealment in an early-season whitetail stand or while stalking mule deer or elk in the high country.




www.kingscamo.com





I was tempted, but I've spent too much money on equipment this year.


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## hardman11

Buy on Cheaper than Dirt website they are a army, surplus store


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## Lone_Hunter

There's always a time to buy. If your looking for a decent outer layer for late fall/winter, that time is now. 
70% off, one day only.








Guide's Choice Storm Fleece Bundle


King's Camo builds camo hunting clothing using highly realistic terrain specific and abstract camouflage with high-performing, lightweight fabrics at an affordable price.




www.kingscamo.com


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## 7mm Reloaded

StorminNorman said:


> I've been wondering this for a while now. It's insane the prices of some of this stuff. Let's take First Lite for example, of course all their stuff is insanely expensive but if you were to get their long johns set you would be spending over $200! Long johns. 1 pair of briefs is $55! That's just wild to me.
> So if you were to buy their $155 vest or $300 coat, what is their profit margin on that? I can't imagine it costs a quarter of that to produce.
> I might be totally wrong. Anyone have a thought one way or another on the subject? Will spending a grand on camo make all the game I can handle magically appear and start running circles around me? Lol


Go to the army navy store and get a whole outfit for 50.00 or less


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## Bax*

To me it boils down to two reasons:

1- Marketing. You’re funding their advertising campaign.

2- Materials. I do think they use some pretty good materials in some brands which are really comfortable and durable. So I do think there is some justification to an increase expense due to that (but probably not to the levels they are charging).


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## PBH

We went into Sportsman's before Christmas looking for some gloves and hats for the girls. Ugh. The wall with the "traditional" gloves and hats was very sparse, and most of it looked decent, but not great. So we wandered looking more at the "hunting" gloves. OMG! I was shocked -- and I already know that this stuff is expensive! But -- who in their right mind is spending $200+ on a pair of snow gloves?! 


I walked out of Sportsman's with a box of 6.5x284 non-lead double tap.
I do not own a gun that will shoot that box of 6.5x284 -- but at least I finally used my coupon!

(we then went to CAL Ranch and bought hats and gloves for the girls!)


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## Irish Lad

Lone_Hunter said:


> If I was starting from scratch, i'd start with midwayUSA (Sale on now). From there, i'd upgrade to and stop at, Kings Camo. First lite, KUIU, Sitka? Don't need em.


I like Kings Camo too. I still have some Cabelas brand camo, it has held up well.


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## one4fishing

PBH said:


> We went into Sportsman's before Christmas looking for some gloves and hats for the girls. Ugh. The wall with the "traditional" gloves and hats was very sparse, and most of it looked decent, but not great. So we wandered looking more at the "hunting" gloves. OMG! I was shocked -- and I already know that this stuff is expensive! But -- who in their right mind is spending $200+ on a pair of snow gloves?!
> 
> 
> I walked out of Sportsman's with a box of 6.5x284 non-lead double tap.
> I do not own a gun that will shoot that box of 6.5x284 -- but at least I finally used my coupon!
> 
> (we then went to CAL Ranch and bought hats and gloves for the girls!)


If your not too far from Smith and Edward’s you should check them out for gloves.


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## Ray

You could also just get snowboarding gloves


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## hardman11

Desert Industries has lot of camo most like new for almost nothing


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## JW21

StorminNorman said:


> I've been wondering this for a while now. It's insane the prices of some of this stuff. Let's take First Lite for example, of course all their stuff is insanely expensive but if you were to get their long johns set you would be spending over $200! Long johns. 1 pair of briefs is $55! That's just wild to me.
> So if you were to buy their $155 vest or $300 coat, what is their profit margin on that? I can't imagine it costs a quarter of that to produce.
> I might be totally wrong. Anyone have a thought one way or another on the subject? Will spending a grand on camo make all the game I can handle magically appear and start running circles around me? Lol


I just wrote about this topic on another article. I think new hunters need a mentor, someone to help them choose clothing. What you need depends on what you're hunting and the environment in which you're doing it. I hunt in woods with a good amount of thickets where animals run into to avoid being killed. They're filled with thorns etc. We have a pretty good rainy season and depending on the weather and location, SNAKES. So plan jeans and BDU type stuff is a waste of money, cotton T-shirts are a no go. You can't get through the thickets with that kind of gear on, so I wont' say the most expensive gear is necessary, but definitely the bare necessities for your game and environment ARE. Good shoes, snake protect is a must. Be prepared for water and long hikes (not a lot of vehicle transit allowed) where I am. I also have to say a GOOD gun, again not necessarily the most expensive, but one that works properly. Unfortunately for all this there is a level of expense, but otherwise you can't enjoy the hunt. Too cold, feet wet/cut/fatigued, hands cut up, you keep getting stabbed by random thorns, you can't cross small bodies of water, you're liable to get snake bite. a mentor will help you and your dog gear up at the least expensive. But i DO hate hearing the whole "just a pair of BDU's and a T" - that's not very realistic for me (and a pair of boots). If you're gonna say that, say where and what you're hunting and the time of year. So i agree you don't need the most expensive stuff, but you do need the stuff you need to enjoy the hunt. a decent gun, briar proof clothing, snake proofing, and water wear, in winter you need a good coat and some thermals and some boots - grab some hot hands, rest easy, decent head gear as well. always have some gloves, gloves that can handle the brush. Buy 2nd hand, i have several pairs of 300 and 500 dollars boots I got for under 100. Cost depends on what you're hunting and under what conditions. If I was giving advice i'd say "DON'T LISTEN TO PEOPLE TELL YOU ABOUT BDU'S AND T'S, find a mentor who hunts what you want to hunt, and get the bare minimum" skip the BDU's it's a waste of money, you'll just go back and buy the right stuff. I can probably outfit someone for 2 to 3 hundred, head to toe - all weather (1 coat, layers - socks shirts thermals everything, 1 pair of boots, a briar shirt, briar chaps, head gear). The next expense would be the gun and that's a whole nother ball of wax. again, it's what u hunt and the environment, ducks? what do your duck holes look like. ****? night hunting, dogs. It matters. What do i hunt? rabbit, squirrel, upland birds, ducks, hog, deer, ****, turkey, geese. I'm night hunting, hunting ponds, hunting lakes, hunting land, hunting winter, (just stopped hunting spring this season too many snakes) . I'm training, i got dogs for squirrel, rabbit, upland birds/waterfowl, hog and ****. BDU's?? Nope, won't get it. Maybe in an open field, but i'd still have on snake boots!! Clothes don't make the hunter, skill does, but poor gear/no gear can definitely cause you problems. I've seen guys who've been hunting forever, hunting without the basics, AND THEY STRUGGLED. but basics is relative, they got the latest tracker for the dogs, but only have on jeans - i went into the brush cause they didn't have the briar proofing or snake protection to go deep. I have both. agian, i don't say u need the best, u just need what's gonna allow u to do the job and enjoy (which is relative)


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