# Whats realy needed??



## rooster (Jul 12, 2008)

Just looking for a few (or alot) of oppinions on self defence calibers for utah, is a 357 mag enuff for utah bears? what about barrel length and action type? I will need to carry conceled most of the time that I am in the field. I have an sp101 that I carry daily. But would that be enuff gun?? is .41 mag to much? .44 mag to much? what about a .45 acp with the right loads?


----------



## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

In my opinion, bullet type and placement will be the most important factor in a kill. Distance should also be considered and will be a factor when choosing a "self defense" caliber. Less than 20 yrds?

I think any caliber larger than .38 would be more than adequate.

sawsman


----------



## rooster (Jul 12, 2008)

what about a .45 acp less than 20 yrd with a +P load of hard cast flat nose bullets? am I just going to piss of a utah bear? will it break a shoulder, or go threw the skull?or would a hard cast .357 mag even be enuff for a debiitating shoulder wound and speedy death, will a .357 go threw the skull?


----------



## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

rooster,

A .45 or a .357 with a good bullet will break and penetrate through bone at less than 20 yards. 

But really, you have a better chance of stepping in a hole and fracturing your leg and then internally bleeding to death than having an encounter with a utah black bear where you would actually have to kill it. 

Have you considered some pepper spray while in bear country?

sawsman


----------



## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

carrying a sidearm around in the woods give people confindence...makes them more brave to venture off more into the woods. not to mention an ego...I use to carry a 44 mag around it got to be pretty heavy lugging it around all the time..never did have to use it, except on a few squirrels that were making to much racket.

best bet it to get some pepper spray and call it good.


----------



## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

If bears were the only dangerous predator in the hills pepper spray would be fine - however there is a prolific 2-legged varmint that is known to prey on its own species and a .357 Mag works wonders for that one.

I guess I grew up watching John Wayne and reading Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan and thought that carrying a six-gun in the hills was something any self-respecting gun-nut would do. In your case, besides the pepper spray, I would use one of the following: 
180-gr WFN-GC Cast Performance loads from Grizzly cartridge http://www.grizzlycartridge.com
Federal Premium Cast-Core #P357J
170-gr Speer Gold Dot SP ammo #23959
Cor-Bon 180 Grain Bonded Core SP
Winchester Supreme 180 Grain Partition Gold

I think all of these are available from Midway http://www.midwayusa.com if not found locally.


----------



## cwp (Nov 25, 2007)

sawsman said:


> In my opinion, bullet type and placement will be the most important factor in a kill. Distance should also be considered and will be a factor when choosing a "self defense" caliber. Less than 20 yrds?
> 
> I think any caliber larger than .38 would be more than adequate.
> 
> sawsman


I agree! If you hit it in the right spot it will fall over.............you just don't leave yourself much time for a second shot so shoot wisely.
cory


----------



## rooster (Jul 12, 2008)

Wow those grizzly loads are hot! I would feel very safe behind a load like that, I think that I would be more likely to need a firearm in the wilds for the two legged type of predator ten a bear but carring a load the will handle both would be prudent I think. I would like to carry my 1911 thou, does anyone make a +P load with a good hard cast FN? also what is the Gas Check for? why do some loads have it and some do not?


----------



## Nueces (Jul 22, 2008)

http://georgia-arms.com/

They make some +P and +P+ loads. Probably any local shop or online supply will have what you want.


----------



## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

The gas check is a copper base (or disc) on the bottom of a lead bullet that helps prevent leading and allows the bullet to be driven faster.


----------



## James (Oct 7, 2007)

I believe the 357 is a good choice for a woods gun. You do lose a bit of velocity in the shorter barrels.

My woods gun is a 44 Special.

The 357 is a big step above 44 special, 45 auto, and 38 Spl in terminal energy. 
45 auto and 44 spl have energy at about 350.
38 Spl at 185.
357 Mag at 583.
44 Mag at 741.

If I were to look for a woods gun today, it would be a 44 magnum. If I had need to kill a bear, I would rather have a 30-30 or 30-06 than any handgun.

As has been mentioned, there isn't much likely hood you will ever run into a bear in Utah in a self defense situation.



> I will need to carry conceled most of the time that I am in the field.


Curious about this statement? Why do you need to carry concealed in the field?


----------



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Has anyone seen the warning that says something to the effect of: BEAR WARNING! Both black bear and grizzley bear are found here. If hiking, wear bells to scare the black bear away. If you come in contact with a grizzley bear, use pepper spray. How can you distinguish which bear is in the area? Black bear droppings usually have berries in it. Grizzley bear dung has bells in it and smells like pepper spray!  

I would imagine that the .45 auto would do the trick with +P ammo, but again I would echo bullet placement is key.


----------



## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

We have talked about bear defense in other threads, and I have done lots of research on which caliber would defend you the best. if you think you can put the right placement on a charging bear with the before mentioned calibers, man more power to yeah. Think about it, your pissing your pants, and you miss that "perfect shot"..you just got a paw full of claws ripped through you, and now your mixed in berries laying on the ground, smelling like sh*t. from my gatherings.."spray". messing with the bears senses works the best, they don't fell threatened from spray. you miss that shot, and that bear is going to open a can of whoop assk on you, because now he is defending himself. so if you want to know which caliber gives you the best chance at a decent shot...... .41 mag and bigger that is what all the experts have said. (this does not include the .45 long colt) 969 ft/s with 230 gr bullet worthless!


----------



## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm a fan of .454 or .460. Bears don't like those.


----------



## rooster (Jul 12, 2008)

I have always wanted a good excuse to buy a .41 mag...... and a .44 mag........ and a .454....... and on and on and on..


----------

