# After Nelson, who will be QB?



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

So, we have the following candidates/commits:
1-Ammon Olson who decided to transfer during his mission after one year at SUU. Won one state championship and took second at Alta-going from memory on that one. BYU recruited him originally, but according to a conversation I had with his grandpa a few years ago he decided he wanted to play right away, so he went to SUU, only point being, that he is capable, but wanted to develop right away, not watch from the bench. Sophomore enrolling in 2012.

2-We have Tyler Mangum who won the Elite 11 camp as the best QB in the nation winning the Golden Arm award in almost every single day of the camp. Graduates from high school in spring 2012 from Eagle, ID. Gatorade player of the year. Plans to serve mission right away. Freshman enrolling in 2014.

3-Taysom Hill recently returned from mission in Australia previously committed to Stanford, but changed his mind and signed with the Y. From Highland High School (also the Rams) is from Pocatello, ID. Sophomore of Frosh? enrolling 2012. 

Not to mention Jake Kuresa out of Mtn Crest and certainly others. 

Wont it be interesting to see how this all goes?! Obviously, Heaps is the news right now, maybe that was all in preparation for what is coming.
Sidenote-the Elite 11 is an invitation only camp hosted by Nike and ESPN is somehow involved. Past camp MVP's include Andrew Luck, Ben Olson ( :shock: ), Jake Heaps ( :shock: ), Tebow, Locker... 22 of the 32 current starting QB's in the NFL were in the elite 11 camp. 

As to the Utes-there is hope in that fairly soon there will be some QB's that can fog a mirror-makes it more clear why Chase Hansen would go to the U over the Y-not that it is even a primary reason, but a reason to go to the U. They also have an elite 11 participant in Travis Wilson out of CA, 17th ranked QB in the nation according to Scout.com.
o-|| o-||


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Why go for a passer, just steal Riley's little brother from Utah State (again) and go with him!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

JuddCT said:


> Why go for a passer, just steal Riley's little brother from Utah State (again) and go with him!


that is my vote too, he seems even better than big bro, ran for about 180 in the semi game & threw for 420. Wow!


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

It doesn't really matter anymore. BYU used to attract some good QBs because of the reputation of being a QBU and providing a spotlight on passers. Now they have gone away from that philosophy and are not interested in the BCS or conference play anymore, I think you will see less QBs looking at the Y as the place to showcase talent. Playing teams like Idaho, Idaho State, and the other smaller colleges you can get by with some scrambler like Nelson and still win games. You can have a 8-4, 9-2, 10-1 season every year and keep the general cougar fan happy.

What was once a very reputable and wave making program will lose its glitter. We can all be satisfied, however, that we have kept the priorities straight and put football in its proper place. Rise and shout, the cougars are OUT!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

anyone feeling a little cynical today? How foes your FIL feel about it? I must agree with you on most of your points, I am not happy with this, but I keep telling myself it is just temporary.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Geez HighNDry. Based on that reasoning, I'm surprised the sun came up on Tuesday. I still see BYU as a school that will put any player on ESPN 10-11 times a year - more than any other team in the country. I see BYU as a school that has placed its last two QBs in the NFL after their senior year. I see BYU as a team that has the ability to schedule games in every time zone, every region, of the country, and a team that puts 55,000 plus people in the seats for every home game. I still see BYU as a school that has premium facilities - probably the best in the country outside the top 10 schools in the country that spend $220M+. One guy leaves after being given every chance to make it, but it isn't the end of the world. BYU has ALWAYS been a place that recruited a niche player. And always will be. Nothing about the program has lost any glitter. ALL the QBs that are considered legendary at BYU came to BYU for a very specific reason that was unique to BYU. They all passed on other, more notable programs because of the things that BYU had at the time. That hasn't changed. And the schedule - everyone knew that would be an issue for the first year of independence. Also - look at the schedules of some of the strongest programs in the country - Ohio State, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, LSU - and you'll see everyone of those scheduling 3-4 "Idaho States" ever year. BYU played teams from 6 different conferences this year, and five games against BCS conference teams. That is more than they EVER had before. And, it will get better. As for the BCS bowls - only one is relevant. And people are harping about that this year as well. Sure I'd love to see the Cougars in a better bowl - who wouldn't? And that will come. But BYU is making more money with their ESPN deal EVERY YEAR, than they'd make by being part of a conference AND going to a BCS bowl every year. So what is the incentive? If they play well enough, they will get consideration for a big bowl. One punk kid transfers because his feelings got hurt when he got benched. So what. Life will go on. 

As for the future - it'll be interesting to watch. No knock on the kid out of Alta, but I'm leary of any kid that didn't want to take time to learn to play at the D1 level. If he had D1 talent, he should have played D1, instead of saying "I don't want to wait and learn - I want to play right now." That didn't do BYU all that great with the last guy. Who knows - maybe this kid can do it. 

Huge - you said that 22 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL went to the Elite 11 camp, and cited several greats that went there. I'd be interested in just how many kids have been through the camp, and how many of those that went, did well in college. If its been going for 10 years, that would be 110 people through it. And if that's the case, then 1 in 5 have made it? It seemed to me watching the ESPN specials on the Elite 11 - it allows practice all stars to be highlighted, but might not show what game playing is really about. I don't know.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Gary, look up elite 11 on Wikipedia, certainly many of them were flops, but there are limited number of measures to be used on the raw hs talent.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

It just seems that is the camp that put Heaps at the top of everyone's list. And I really don't think that he was able to translate his practice or drill skills, to the college game all that effectively. And so it causes me to question if Mangum is in the same boat. 

Quick look at the page you suggest, and it looks like anywhere from 2, on up to 5 of the guys each year at that camp make it to the NFL. For the year Heaps went, he is the only one with any kind of college resume thus far. Interesting. It certainly is no guarantee of anything. But it is something I guess. Time will tell I guess. Time will tell.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> One punk kid transfers because his feelings got hurt when he got benched.


Geez, tell us how you really feel! :lol:

Is Riley also a punk kid for his decision or was it okay since he was on his mission and his dad had a falling out with the Utah State athletics department? What about Max Hall? Okay because of the mission? My point is they all had their reasons for leaving and we should just respect that and not let ouf FANatic tendencies to bring them down. He is just a kid.



GaryFish said:


> I still see BYU as a school that will put any player on ESPN 10-11 times a year - more than any other team in the country


Hopefully they can schedule better games like Texas/ND as this is the only way they will get bumped to ESPN/ESPN2 instead of being relegated to ESPNU. Although I think Utah State was on ESPN, right? But that is like watching the MAC schools on ESPN when nothing else is on. I just turn off the TV if I'm from back east. However, as a Ute fan I enjoy having their games on ESPN as I try to watch them as I want them to do well in every game (except against other local schools in the state :evil: )



GaryFish said:


> And the schedule - everyone knew that would be an issue for the first year of independence. Also - look at the schedules of some of the strongest programs in the country - Ohio State, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, LSU - and you'll see everyone of those scheduling 3-4 "Idaho States" ever year. BYU played teams from 6 different conferences this year, and five games against BCS conference teams. That is more than they EVER had before.


This is what I don't get. BYU IS NOT anything like those teams you mentioned above. Those schools get to schedule the weaker teams as they play 8-9 BCS caliber teams each year in their respective conferences and the fact that they are national powers (not evey year, but a whole lot more often than Utah & BYU). I guess TCU and Utah really did you guys a favor as without us being accepted into BCS leagues you would be stuck at 3 BCS games played this year right?
o-||

I've learned a lot this year as a Ute fan. The BCS conference stuff is really harder than you think. Being able to mix up MWC or WAC or Big Sky teams like we all used to do was really easy. But having to play these BCS teams in a conference is tough (but fun in terms of going to the games and watching). I'll add the following about BYU's schedule this year:

[attachment=0:epdb08gm]BYU.jpg[/attachment:epdb08gm]

BYU really owes Utah State a Christmas Gift as they were BYU's only win against a team with a winning record.



GaryFish said:


> Huge - you said that 22 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL went to the Elite 11 camp, and cited several greats that went there. I'd be interested in just how many kids have been through the camp, and how many of those that went, did well in college. If its been going for 10 years, that would be 110 people through it. And if that's the case, then 1 in 5 have made it? It seemed to me watching the ESPN specials on the Elite 11 - it allows practice all stars to be highlighted, but might not show what game playing is really about. I don't know.


I agree with this. Talking about how a future recruit will do is nonsense to say the least. Jake Heaps/Ben Olsen/Harvey Langi and many others are good enough reason to let these kids develop on their own without adding hype. Yeah, the Ute's QB recruit that went "SHOULD" be good, but until I see it on the field I won't believe it. We really should be focusing on the "underground" recruites like Brian Blechen. They are the guys that seem to really surprise us.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Interesting points Judd, and I don't really disagree. If Heaps wants to transfer, that is fine. I think his reasons are certainly different than Hall and Nelson. Hall changed when ASU was going through coaching changes and there was no promise of him even getting his scholarship back. Nelson also saw coaching changes happening at Utah State and the unknowns that went with that. I personally think that when there is a coaching change, a kid ought to be able to transfer without penalty, but that is just me. It APPEARS (and granted, there is probably more to it that what appears) that Heaps is leaving because he lost out to a player that was willing to work harder than him. And that sucks. Because if that is the case, he has no future playing football, no matter where he goes. 

On the schedule thing - sure, Ol Miss, Texas, and Utah didn't have that great of a year. But how do you know what kind of year any school will have? Texas is one of the top programs in the country in most every year. And Ol Miss while not an SEC powerhouse, isn't a bad team in most years. And Utah is in a tough spot at the QB spot due to injury and lack of a super solid talent at that position, but they are usually much better. Oregon State is not a top program, but has been a giant killer in recent years, though they were awful this year. So you schedule teams that SHOULD have a good year and go from there. But scheduling will get better. They had less than a year to put this thing together. And it may take another year or two like we saw this year, until the conference re-alignment thing calms down and teams can actually schedule. But it will happen either by joining the Big 12, or conferences stabilizing enough that an independent can get some planning done. 

And your last point - Blechen is a stud. I wish he were wearing Blue and White! Can you imagine a team with Van Noy, Pendleton, and Blechen? That would be a freaky good defense and a ton of fun to watch.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> And your last point - Blechen is a stud. I wish he were wearing Blue and White! Can you imagine a team with Van Noy, Pendleton, and Blechen? That would be a freaky good defense and a ton of fun to watch.


This is why I secretly hope BYU axes their athletic programs. Can you imagine the U's D-Line, BYU's LB, U's Secondary? Through in BYU's QB depth, Combination of U's/BYU's RB, Comined O-Line, Ross Apo/Devonte Christopher/Cody Hoffman/Dres Anderson/etc, with BYU's TEs. That is a scary team and should be able to compete week in and out in the PAC12.

C'mon, we need to band together and get BYU's athletics axed!

:lol:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Okay Judd, what u did there must be a violation forum rules! Stop it!


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## Dwight Schrutester (Dec 3, 2007)

JuddCT said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > And your last point - Blechen is a stud. I wish he were wearing Blue and White! Can you imagine a team with Van Noy, Pendleton, and Blechen? That would be a freaky good defense and a ton of fun to watch.
> ...


I say it's worth it! Come on BYU, let Utah focus on sports and you can focus on souls!  :lol:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Interesting points Judd, and I don't really disagree. If Heaps wants to transfer, that is fine. I think his reasons are certainly different than Hall and Nelson. Hall changed when ASU was going through coaching changes and there was no promise of him even getting his scholarship back. Nelson also saw coaching changes happening at Utah State and the unknowns that went with that. I personally think that when there is a coaching change, a kid ought to be able to transfer without penalty, but that is just me. It APPEARS (and granted, there is probably more to it that what appears) that Heaps is leaving because he lost out to a player that was willing to work harder than him. And that sucks. Because if that is the case, he has no future playing football, no matter where he goes.


IMHO, Heaps is transferring because of a coaching change, just not the head coach. The Offensive Coordinator is a major element the the world of a QB, yes? When the OC does NOT like you, for whatever reason(s), sticking around and getting splinters in your butt seems foolish to me. There are LOTS of GREAT players who have transferred for a multiple list of reasons, Cam Newton comes to mind...... If a coach can 'transfer' whenever they feel like it, why can't the players? If a kid comes into a program and finds out things aren't what he expected, why should he be stuck there, while coaches are NOT restricted? Was it extremely DUMB for me to turn down a full-ride scholarship to a D-1 school because I didn't like the Assistant wrestling coach? Perhaps, but I made that choice because I felt it was best for me. Have I had many a sleepless night wondering what-if? **** straight, but I still think it was the right choice for me. Does that make me a punk, or selfish? I am sure in many people's eyes the answer is yes, but it comes down to an INDIVIDUAL choice. All this piling on Heaps reminds me of my chickens, as soon as one shows the slightest hint of weakness, the rest go after her with vim and vigor......


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

This thread wasn't intended to have anything to do with Heaps, but now that the detour has been taken...Heaps has no one to blame but himself. He had every single chance he deserved and blew it. He is only criticized because he sucked, go and win and nobody cares about whether you went on a mission or had a ridiculous press conference or acted ****y before he should have or parted his hair incorrectly or didn't wipe his butt or anything else. He clearly has some mental issue or issues and likely will do better with a new start, I would have left too after blowing my starting spot to a no name being a high profile recruit. 
Going forward, I think the coaches will handle things differently such as not starting a freshman and letting him ease into the role and preferably have upper classmen for the job. I don't believe the other thread about them only recruiting a running QB...the proof is in the pudding and this pudding of current signees includes the prototypical drop back bombers.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> the proof is in the pudding and this pudding of current signees includes the prototypical drop back bombers.


Taysom Hill = running QB (_ran for 1490_ yards as a senior!)
Ammon Olsen = running QB (ran for 860 yards as a senior)
My little cousin, Alex Kuresa = running QB (698 rushing yards and 19 rushing TD's as a senior)
Tanner Mangun = Bomber all the way

It will be interesting to see who wins out. Three of the four are definitely, without question, no qualms about it, running quarterbacks.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Maybe I stand corrected.


> Olsen was Utah's 5A Most Valuable Player, and Gatorade Player of the Year in 2008 and led the Hawks to the state championship. He completed 193-of-306 passes for 3,209 yards and 36 touchdowns. Olsen also ran for 860 yards and 11 more TDs. Olsen was also a three-year letterman on Alta's basketball team, and was the team's leading scorer, and earned Region 2 MVP recognition, as a senior.


To pass for 3,209 yards and run for 860 certainly may be more rushing yards than the typical drop back, but that doesn't strike me as a run first Nelson type QB.
Hill certainly is a runner, 1,490 rushing compared to 2,239 passing ...wow "Averaged 124 yards/game and over 10 yards/attempt." That certainly is nice to have such an option, sure has given the Y's defense all kinds of trouble over the years to defend a QB like that.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> To pass for 3,209 yards and run for 860 certainly may be more rushing yards than the typical drop back, but that doesn't strike me as a run first Nelson type QB.
> Hill certainly is a runner, 1,490 rushing compared to 2,239 passing ...wow "Averaged 124 yards/game and over 10 yards/attempt." That certainly is nice to have such an option, sure has given the Y's defense all kinds of trouble over the years to defend a QB like that.


Like I said, it will be interesting to see who wins these quarterback competitions. I think they are all good candidates who could succeed in the right situation. I believe that about Heaps as well. It might just be that the new OC has better synergy with a running QB, being that Doman was that way himself. I think synergy between the coordinator and the quarterback is hugely important to success in any program.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> Like I said, it will be interesting to see who wins these quarterback competitions. I think they are all good candidates who could succeed in the right situation. I believe that about Heaps as well. It might just be that the new OC has better synergy with a running QB, being that Doman was that way himself. I think synergy between the coordinator and the quarterback is hugely important to success in any program.


I am with you there! Hopefully the whole Heaps experience has taught the staff how to better manage such a competition between two capable candidates, or more in this possible case. I really doubt that they would have Heaps (or any freshman) playing as much his freshman year after what we have learned...until of course, the more experienced QB gets injured.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I still think Doman is a big part of the problem at the Y. And I don't mean it to demean him in general. I've watched his antics on the field before they put him in the booth, and I've watched him do interviews and talk at the Y awards at the end of the year. He doesn't come across like most coaches. I'm not saying right or wrong, just different. To me he acts more like a young college kid still. I think mentally he is reliving his "glory days" and that he has a lot of growing up to do. he will get his chance to grow up in the program but Heaps won't.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

HighNDry - you might be right. He certainly lacks polish. 

As for the Heaps thing - I think he had every chance to grow up. Being ready to play isn't a growing up thing. It is a football thing. And working hard to improve isn't a growing up thing - it is a football thing.


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