# Fish Lake and surrounding area are hurting for deer



## Old Fudd

Well here I go again. Won't make to many freinds today. Just got back from 15 days archery hunting Fish Lake area. 7 of us hunted hard on foot, humped everyday but 2, I'll break it down to what I saw.148 Does 13 Bucks, biggest a 18 inch 3x3. 7 fawns . Pretty much the same for everyone except my 45 yr old son and his 17 yr old son. NEVER saw an antler and only 3 fawns and a bunch of dry does.. (OPINOIN) The area is in serious, serious trouble! If something isn't done soon! it's over for the deer.Talked to other hunters who were on the unit. Every person I had conversation with. and these were archers who had hunted Fishlake thier entire hunting life, all to a person said," either close the place down for 3 years.OR> And here comes the same old TOPIC,And won't make very many freinds, " 3 POINT OR BETTER".. it worked on this unit!!!Say what ya will.. I seen it then, I've hunted this unit 40 yrs. I've seen it now.and it ain't pretty!! Someone please pull your heads out!! and no! the elk haven't run them out! Had a tag spike or cow seen 1 5x5 and 1 cow bout half a mile away..we did have a great campig trip inspite the lack o deer,I'm not talking about any other unit just Fishlake, so please don't get up in my grill to bad..


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## MarkM

I think the south end of the state got hit hard by the last winter. I have some friends that hunted a bit further south than you and said it was was pretty bad this year as far as deer numbers. It's too bad because when I hunted the Southern Region two years ago the herd seemed to be on the way up and I saw a lot of deer. This past winter seems to have set things back. The north end of the state seemes to be doing well, I have been hunting the Central region and I have seen more deer this year than the past couple years. I don't about closing the areas down for three years but it will be interesting to see what the shorter rifle hunt (5 days) will do to help. Maybe more area in the southern region need to be on the shorted hunt for all three weapons that Monroe and several other areas are on now.

Mark


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## wileywapati

FUDD I'll promise ya that elk have more to do with this than ya think... Now get someone that matters to admit it


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## hockey

If you were on the Fish Lake area for 15 days and only saw 2 elk I question your ability to spot game?


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## wyoming2utah

:roll: :roll: 

Didn't you say the same thing last year? Why in the heck would you hunt the same area if you continue not to see any antlers? Seems pretty stupid to me!

Also, if you only saw "7 fawns" and "148 does", I question your ability to tell the difference between a doe and a fawn!

Maybe I will have to take you out and show you some deer with antlers...on Fish Lake!


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## PBH

If you only saw 13 bucks -- then what good will it do to restrict hunting to 3 point or better?

Is hunter harvest the problem on Fish Lake? How is shutting it down to hunting going to correct whatever the problem is with deer populations?

Personally, i don't believe that there is a problem. Some years, hunting is hard and you really have to work to find the deer.


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## Old Fudd

THANKS FELLAS!!! Only been hunting with a bow for 47 years . Your last two coments about being stupied was way cool. Sure I guess we should hunt some place else.far and away from guys who like to toss out the personnal BS. I 'am worried about this unit. love the area, it needs help.! It's not about me! But hey! you pro hunters would not understand that, It's .. WHAT DID HE SCORE!! HOW MANY DID YOU STICK TODAY? and didn't RECOVER? Or MISSED ONE A 150 yards. OR.I have this HONEY HOLE and it only cost 5 Thousand DOLLARS to hunt this property... OOPS! getting kinda personnal time to knock it off. Think about this area, not the old man who posted the OPINOIN..Have a great day! enjoy the future of archery hunting in a state that cares more bout cash flow than the public land herds>


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## Fishracer

2 elk in 15 days. That is hard to believe for that unit. Maybe try a little ways off the road. :O•-:


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## hockey

oldfudd said:


> But hey! you pro hunters would not understand that, It's .. WHAT DID HE SCORE!! HOW MANY DID YOU STICK TODAY? and didn't RECOVER? Or MISSED ONE A 150 yards. OR.I have this HONEY HOLE and it only cost 5 Thousand DOLLARS to hunt this property... >


I don't think I resemble any any of the above? :roll:



oldfudd said:


> Think about this area, >


I'm not a biologist but in my opinion this unit is one of the more healthy units in the state, in fact I will driving thru it later today, betcha I see 20 deer just from the pavement. I will give you a "scouting report" when I get back


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## Bowdacious

I drove through that unit the other day and I saw a crap load of deer, almost hit three standing in the road. I even saw one little spike FROM THE FREEWAY! Now, I'm not a professional hunter, nor do I care about arguing about horn size (kinda like arguing about who has the biggest tally-whacker) but when I DRIVE through a unit and see tons of deer from the road, it promises that bigger and better are waiting OFF the road.


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## HOGAN

I agree with just about everyone on this Wyo2, and Oldfudd are very accurate, sounds imposible but not as far off as one would think. Also wileyapiti is right on the money too.


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## hockey

Bowdacious said:


> (kinda like arguing about who has the biggest tally-whacker)


Thats an arguement you will lose every time! At least that what's what your wife told my wife :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## WasatchOutdoors

I'm a little concerned by this report, but I guess I'll know in about 8 hours. I'm heading down there this weekend to do a little scouting and a lot of fishing. I'll be sure to relay what I see. 

I heard the same kind of stuff last year when I hunted on this unit during the archery season last year, from hunters down there. But I didn't have any problem seeing deer last fall at all. Probably had something to do with the fact that I only had an Elk tag in my pocket. That being said, it's not to say that the winter might not have done some damage down there since last fall. 

The elk in that area, depending on where you hunt, are sometimes hard to find during the archery hunt because they're up high enough that it's hard to find a good vantage point to see them. You end up hiking a ton to find good glassing spots that can cover a lot of openings. Luckily I had some really good help and advice from friends on here (thanks again Hogan) that ended up putting me in the right place. Ended up seeing a nice 5x5, 16 cows, and 2 spikes by 2 pm opening day.


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## Bowdacious

hockey said:


> Bowdacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> (kinda like arguing about who has the biggest tally-whacker)
> 
> 
> 
> Thats an arguement you will lose every time! At least that what's what your wife told my wife :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

I heard the same thing, that if I was going to compare mine to HERS...I'd lose. There is just something not right loosing to a woman with a weener!


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## wyoming2utah

One thing people need to remember about the archery hunt this year is the amount of rainfall we have received this summer...the mountains are really green and water has not been hard to find. This really spreads the deer out and allows them to occupy a lot more summer range....it also makes finding bucks--especially mature bucks--much more difficult.


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## wyoming2utah

wileywapati said:


> FUDD I'll promise ya that elk have more to do with this than ya think... Now get someone that matters to admit it


An interesting discussion of elk/mule deer interaction:
http://www.createstrat.com/muledeerinth ... edeer.html

A study examining the competition among elk, deer, and cattle for available forage:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/eoarcunion/ ... cattle.pdf

I would suggest that cattle could be negatively impacting mule deer and competing for available food sources as much as elk....


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## neverdrawn

I would certainly agree with wyo2 about the deer being scattered this year. I've been hunting farther south and haven't seen concentrations of deer in their classic archery areas but have seen deer scattered over a broader range. IMHO it has to do with all the available feed and water. It has been one of the best years for the above mentioned in the last several. One benefit is I have seen some of the younger bucks with some imppressive antler growth. It has certainly been more difficult to find deer but I think we need to wait until after we hear from the Muzzleloaders and Rifle hunters before we write off any areas. Especially if we get some storms that move the deer a little lower and congregrate them a little more. I would never question anyones hunting ability oldfudd but those factors along with a full moon pattern were probably working against you. Sorry things didn't go better, but lets hope its more coditions of nature than conditions of the herd.


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## 4pointmuley

Three point or better doesn't work. I use to hunt the area back in the 80's when they tried that option. The dam Californian's shoot whatever has horns! I saw it happen on opening morning. I had a large 2-point run up the draw next to me. I glassed him and saw that he was a tall 2-point buck. About the time I put my binoculars down. I heard a bang and the buck went down! Then a guy in the truck yelled to me and said what is it? I said a 2-point. They quickly drove off. I tried to make out the plate number, but I wasn't able to read it. I did notice it was California plates though! Then to make things worst. I finished hunting and walked back to my truck and noticed 2 dead fawns laying in the dirt road with there hind-quarters missing! Not sure if it was the Californian's, but it was on the same road they traveled!


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## Critter

The funny thing is I have seen hunters with a Utah license plate do the same thing in the Book Cliffs in the 80's and on top of the Manti in the 90's and White River in the 70's. The shoot now and look later has been hapening for a long time and it isn't just the out of state hunters that are doing it. I also remember ranchers and farmers down on Elk Ridge telling us to shoot as many deer as we saw just so that they wouldn't get into their winter wheat in the 60's. 
I have thought the last 10 years that they need to shut down a quarter of the state for 2 or 3 years and let the heards grow back up but the hunter will not stand for it and the DOW will loose too much money doing it.


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## Brookie

I know on the Manti, that the reports are coming back with pitiful results. But the bucks being seen are good ones. Not many little ones and not many deer in general. Past three Winters may have had an effect. School must be IN PBH and W2U are on the forums again


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## goofy elk

I here ya loud and clear Oldfudd,,And changes are coming for Utah's deer hunting...

I ,for one, Would much rather see antler restrictions than what "ultimately" will happen
ending up with,,,,, state wide limited entry deer! Could be in place by 2013.


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## tlsharb

Well I'll add a little reflection to this discussion. Just got back from a week on Dutton. This is the 8th season I've been on the plateau (1st was in 1970). Without a doubt this was the worst. My buddies and I hiked farther, longer, and harder than I ever have before. What did we see? 30-40 does and fawns and 1 spike buck.I plumbed the depths of Pole Canyon, hiked the highest ridges around Mule Flat and Rim Resevoir, and went into the lower drainages like Forest Creek and Willow Spring Creek (as well as all my usual haunts around Jones Corral). Lots of elk around, but mulie bucks were really missing.Talked with a lot of hunters, and everyone told the same story. Really sad part was the locals that I talked with who said they've been up throughout the summmer scouting, and it was the same in July. Not sure what it means, but I sure miss the old days.


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## bullsnot

IMHO opinion you just don't see the deer you used to. It seemed 15 years ago the thought process was if you worked hard and got away from the crowds you could always find a good buck. Now they seem further and longer in between. Sure they are still out there but they have certainly dwindled in overall numbers. 

I support the antler restrictions 100% and to me is a much better idea than the shorter hunt periods. I don't buy the argument that it doesn't work because of poachers. I think any management plan has to be based on what the legal restrictions are and how they will affect the herd. If you worry about poaching then there isn't management plan in the world that really works. Remember the guys that just got busted for poaching a ton of Vernon bucks? They've made spike only hunts work with the elk and the shorter hunt periods have proven to be ineffective in other states when tried.


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## Califbowmen

I likewise hunted the same area in and around Dutton for the past 7 years and this year was by far the worst I have ever seen. I hunted from Table Mtn to Forest Creek, mostly hiking and saw a handful of does and yearlings ( mostly the same ones ) along with 3 spike bucks. I did see several small herds of cow elk and calves, but no bulls. I did find one hunter who was a good half mile from the nearest road just driving across the sage brush and when he got back to the road, he simply drove around the barricade. Needless to say, I turned him into a forest service employee and got negative results from that person. So much for road and trail closures. Sorry I got off the subject. I spoke with a resident of the southern end of the area I was hunting and he informed me of the large number of winter killed game including not only antelope but deer and a few elk as well. I want to make one more trip to Utah with both my sons but I'm just not sure that the herd will rebound by next season. BBQ'd tags this year.


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## skeptic

Old Fudd I am with you I was down there for 16 days hunted from Boobe Hole, U.M. to Gooseberry to Around the Johnson Ranch, I have hunted there for close to 30 years, It is really sad to see the shape it is in.


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## Iron Bear

"Plenty of deer" is a relative term. For those of us that hunted pre 70s. "Plenty of deer" archery hunting means seeing 20 to 40 bucks a day and 100s of doe. When there are plenty of deer it doesn't matter weather it's a dry or wet summer. They are everywhere. You don't have to hike 10 miles from a road. When there are plenty of deer you see deer poop everywhere.

The 3 prior pages of comments says it all to me. Not one single mention of predators.

How has the cougar and coyote population been doing down in the Fishlake area?


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## skeptic

I saw a coyote eating a fawn kill, heard them every night and morning, no shortage of predators their.


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## yak4fish

I,m a third to give a poor report on MT Dutton my son and I hunted hard for 9 days to see a few does with fawns and only one small forked horn buck. All the places we normally see deer, we saw nothing and very few tracks and sign as well. We did see lots of bear sign and lots of sheep and elk.


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## De Jager

The deer were slim pickins on the unit this year. I had an archery LE elk tag with no success. But from the road I saw 4 deer (14", 18", 22" and a whopper 28") 10 yards from me at sheep valley. I also jumped a 22" and a 25" buck from their bed not more than 100 yards of the road at 7mile. Other than that it was all elk and plenty of them, just really small. That unit is way down with good scoring elk. I did have a 340 bull come in last night at 80 yards only to have some rifle hunters doing their scouting with bugles not less than 300 yards away downhill. The mountain was going crazy with bugles until that bugle and multiple cow calls were followed. The lesson we learned by hunting these elk for 2 weeks straight is that they went farther away when you bugle and on occasion a cow call would bring them in. They were mainly locator calls that the bulls were doing with one another. We had rifle hunters (scouting) cruising 7mile 3 days before their hunt bugling every mile from the bridge at the river at 10:30pm trying to locate bulls. My hunt was basically over when the rifle hunters started showing up and starting to scout instead of doing pre-season scouting. I was just waiting to hear them sighting in their rifles.


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## goofy elk

This deserves a bump back to the top,,,,,BECAUSE OLDFUDD NAILED IT....

Back during archery season oldfudd started this thread about the lack
of deer and elk in the areas he hunted on Fish lake........

He got hammered by a few ,,,,,,,Cant spot , or hunt right?????
I call BS,,,,,,,,I guess in 47 years of bow hunting oldfudd learned a thing or two,,,


In hindsight,,,,,he was spot on!


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## Huge29

goofy elk said:


> This deserves a bump back to the top,,,,,BECAUSE OLDFUDD NAILED IT....
> 
> Back during archery season oldfudd started this thread about the lack
> of deer and elk in the areas he hunted on Fish lake........
> 
> He got hammered by a few ,,,,,,,Cant spot , or hunt right?????
> I call BS,,,,,,,,I guess in 47 years of bow hunting oldfudd learned a thing or two,,,
> 
> In hindsight,,,,,he was spot on!


I mean this in the most courteous way--so, what is your point? I don't think that is news is it? Are you relating this to other news? I am having a hard time of making the connection...so, help me out, please!


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## swbuckmaster

one thing we no out of goofy is he says we need to limit the hunters out one side of his mouth because there are no deer. Then he post pictures of 140-160 bucks or responds to other peoples big buck pictures by saying out the other side of his mouth that he passed them up. I say goofy if you want to see bigger bucks on general units. forget it. they are general units and are not managed for quality. sure if we wanted to see big azz bucks we could limit the hunters and we will see more deer with big horns. But these are general units!

I know for a fact the deer hunting does suck near the roads. We dont have the deer numbers like we did in the 70-80's when the deer were every where. BUT back then we didnt have an elk herd, we were getting off of the predator poison, rabbits were everywhere, and we were in our annual 10 year above average wet cycles utah goes though. We had the perfect recipe for growing deer numbers. with high deer numbers you will see more bucks and some of them will be better quality.

For the last 10+ years we have been in a drought. In drought years the forage sucks. So all the animals that eat weed, bushes, grass will be competing. In the last 10+ years we have had an explosion of the elk population, and predator population. I never saw bears or cats 10 years ago but I do see them now days every year. I even saw a bear about 3 weeks ago standing right off the side of the road.

So I dont know how to say this other then Goofy is confused between what a general unit is and what a Le unit is and he wants to see Le units or 29 of them state wide. I do not want to see them. I hate them and I have 10 0r 11 points for deer! I would rather see the whole state opened up to general deer and get rid of the LE units. I dont see anything good about these Le unit deer where the deer are as dumb as a box of rocks.. I hunt 200"+ bucks every year with over the counter tag! This state does need something done if you want to see larger bucks on general units. But before we go and cut our nuts off by cutting tags so we cant hunt. People need to see they don't have to. Cut the rifle tags and give them to the archers. This way if you still want to hunt you can. You just have to use a shorter range weapon to do it. If I could hunt every year with a rifle and kill big bucks I would but we cant. I love to rifle hunt but it is just too easy to shoot something. Here is this years rifle success.

estimated 850 yard one shot kill. One day hunt!









430 yard one shot kill verified with a range finder. One day hunt! 
















Turn me loose on a mountain for bucks or bulls with a rifle and ill kill the largest buck on the hill guaranteed. Its too easy!!

I am not the average hunter with a bow ill admit. I am way above average only because I shoot all year round. I scout year round and I have a wife that lets me get away with anything I want and allows me to hunt for weeks at a time. So if I can hunt for 30+ days this year including 1 week in the rut for elk and 2 weeks in the rut for deer and come home empty handed then then it goes to show archery is a way you can still hunt with out taking the quality out of the game you are after.


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## bullsnot

The reason that Goofy passes big bucks and wants to see more is that he makes a living guiding hunters to big game. Nothing wrong with that at all.....but his perspective is certainly different than most. The system wasn't designed to cater to outfitters. They are welcome to make a living IMO but an outfitter stands to really benefit from changes that encourage larger bucks. How else are you going to get someone to open their wallet? Limit the supply and better the product!

I'm not getting down on Goofy for what he does for a living. I'm only pointing out what his perspective likely is.

As for the average hunter I think you hit the nail on the head! The deer are still there, the bucks are still there. I find my success, the number of deer I see, the number of large bucks I see is still directly proportional to the number of hours I scout, shoot and hunt. I can say without hesitation there are still big bucks to be had on Utah's general units. I have seen them in all 5 regions over the past 3 years.


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## Huge29

Thanks for the PM Goofy! Goofy's only inference from what I now gather is that oldfudd was being blasted for complaining about no deer, yet 1 or 2 hunts were closed prematurely or never opened this year. I think he is simply standing up for oldfudd and no other meanings intended. Where are you oldfudd? I think he may have been turned off by those bad mouthing him in this thread and how he can come back and say "I told you so!"


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## goofy elk

Your welcome Huge29,,,And you observations are correct..

SW,,,I do NOT want to see 29 more L/E deer units,,,,,Just 29 units with HEATHY deer herds.

Bullsnot,,,,I do not guide deer or elk on general season units,,,,,Only L/E on the units I LIKE..
I turned down quite a bit of guiding opportunity this year so, our family, could hunt my 
wife's Wasatch elk,,,my sons antler less elk, his deer tags......
Oh,,,,And a family antelope hunt in Wyoming..,,,Over a month I could have been guiding 
this year, didn't do it, hunted with my family instead.


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