# Spear Fishing at Starvation



## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

Going spearfishing at starvation in an hour! Finally! We haven't had the chance all year to get out spearfishing. It's nice to live so close. 

I can't get the DWR site to download the fishing guidebook, though. I need to know the limit on Walleye and SM Bass. Oh well, I can pick one up on the way. 

Wish us luck!


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

LMAO!


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I hope you don't get squat or you shoot one of your buddies! Only dummies that can't fish with a hook and line spearfish.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

We only got 3 bass and 1 Walleye. 

That was a lot of work, but a lot of fun! 

I never got a shot at a carp. They were too much in the weeds.

I only got one of the SM bass. My friend got the others. Sure was a blast, though!

Here are pics of the fish. It's a 22" Walleye, and 18" bass.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

So you idiots that have a problem with this wouldn't have kept and killed any of these fish if you were to have caught them? We filleted them all, and they'll be tasty. 

We didn't take more than our limit. It's not anywhere close to shooting fish in a barrel. They're quick little suckers, the visibility is only about 6', and it takes a LOT of work.


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## schaueelab (Dec 30, 2007)

Sounds like fun to me!!!! :mrgreen:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

LOL... I take it you got some PMs. o-|| I think its awesome that you went out and got some good fish, nice work. I'm sure its not as easy as it sounds. 8)


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Sweet I would like to try it someday, but I'm scuured of water.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

No PMs, just the wimps posting earlier in the thread. I'd like to see them try it.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

truemule said:


> Sweet I would like to try it someday, but I'm scuured of water.


Don't be scurred. Jaws was just a movie.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

For what it's worth, when I first tried last year, it was kind of freaky. Just going down under the water 8-10', among weeds and submerged bushes/trees is an eerie feeling at first. Also, maybe it's just my eyes in the water without my glasses, but the fish seem bigger when I'm in the water than when they are out. 

It's a good rush of fun, though. You should all try it some time.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

tuffluckdriller said:


> For what it's worth, when I first tried last year, it was kind of freaky. Just going down under the water 8-10', among weeds and submerged bushes/trees is an eerie feeling at first. Also, maybe it's just my eyes in the water without my glasses, but the fish seem bigger when I'm in the water than when they are out.


Ground shrinkage; it happens to all of us.


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## wyoguy (Mar 4, 2010)

I have tried snorkling, and can tell u that getting close to fish isn't easy at all, they seem to be afraid of things bigger than they are. Wonder why?


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, so I'm not gonna lie... I've been checkin it out on Youtube. Slow day at the office and all..... I'm going to come right out and say I'm definitely interested in this... even if it is just shooting carp. Some of the pigs at Lake Mead and Mohave? Can you imagine?? That'd be a total rush, let alone taking out some of the big carp in our lakes here. Tuffluckdriller, I may be sending you a PM about checkin this out more.


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## Dagwood (May 12, 2010)

What kind of spear were you using?


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

I want to try this too. I'm scuba certified and I've always wanted to try it. The kokanee fishing at Flaming Gorge this year has encouraged me to try it out next year. It is to be war on burbot next year.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

We were using spear guns. They both belong to my friend. 

He uses the pneumatic one. I use the rubber tube powered one. They're pretty cool.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

I want to pick a bone with the admins. 

Why did they move this to General Fishing and Questions? 

Just because I posted before I went? This was a fishing trip report. Not just questions. Just a little disheartening. Oh well.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

tuffluckdriller said:


> Going spearfishing at starvation in an hour! Finally! We haven't had the chance all year to get out spearfishing. It's nice to live so close.
> 
> I can't get the DWR site to download the fishing guidebook, though. I need to know the limit on Walleye and SM Bass. Oh well, I can pick one up on the way.
> 
> Wish us luck!


I don't understand why you are asking about the move.
You were not reporting a fishing trip.
When you have returned from the trip, by all means report in the Fishing Trip Forum.
Grandpa D.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

The whole idea of shooting a fish is ludicrous and should be banned! I don't give a crap of how you try to justify it it is so hard wah wah wah. If you can't entice a fish to bite a lure it ain't fishing period. I have no respect for spearfishing especially after the debacle of the slaughter of spawning macks at fish lake last year. I write a letter a month to my representatives in congress to have this travesty outlawed and will continue to do so until it is. FYI I am no wimp and that would become apparent within seconds of meeting me.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Hey get a room you two.


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> The whole idea of shooting a fish is ludicrous and should be banned! I don't give a crap of how you try to justify it it is so hard wah wah wah. If you can't entice a fish to bite a lure it ain't fishing period. I have no respect for spearfishing especially after the debacle of the slaughter of spawning macks at fish lake last year. I write a letter a month to my representatives in congress to have this travesty outlawed and will continue to do so until it is. FYI I am no wimp and that would become apparent within seconds of meeting me.


+1 L2F&H!! They can go chuck spears at carp and other roughfish. Leave the sportfish to real sportsMEN! I've heard about you and calling you a wimp is something a ************ would only do online.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Hey get a room you two.


Who the heck are you talkin to? Keep it up Fixed and I will pinch your man boobs.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

brookieguy1 said:


> luv2fsh&hnt said:
> 
> 
> > The whole idea of shooting a fish is ludicrous and should be banned! I don't give a crap of how you try to justify it it is so hard wah wah wah. If you can't entice a fish to bite a lure it ain't fishing period. I have no respect for spearfishing especially after the debacle of the slaughter of spawning macks at fish lake last year. I write a letter a month to my representatives in congress to have this travesty outlawed and will continue to do so until it is. FYI I am no wimp and that would become apparent within seconds of meeting me.
> ...


Don't take it wrong Brookieguy I am not mean for means sake but I am a man. I am one of the nicest most respectful people you could ever meet. I am an extremely loyal friend sometimes to a fault but I call things the way I see them and am more than capable of backing up my words with action. Hopefully we can meet someday and you can judge for yourself.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> [quote="fixed blade":1dxtmacd]Hey get a room you two.


Who the heck are you talkin to? Keep it up Fixed and I will pinch your man boobs. [/quote:1dxtmacd]

Deal. :lol:


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

As a long time salt water spearfisher I want to express my opinion but i won't. Too afraid the UWN badass will get mad and want to fight :roll: :roll: 
Luv: I got a question for you? Back in 95 I shot a 75lb tuna freediving at 60' over 1000', do you consider this sport???



luv2fsh&hnt said:


> If you can't entice a fish to bite a lure it ain't fishing period.


 Do you feel the same way about bait fisherman as spearfisherman


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

No and no. Most baitfisherman just haven't figured out that it is much funner to catch 'em on lures than on bait but they will in time at least most of them. I have never claimed to be a badass but like I said I call it the way I see it. I have been snorkeling both freswater and saltwater and I have had fish swim right up to me everytime from barracudas to croakers to spanish macs and many I couldn't even identify. I see no difference between spearfishing than the wanna be hunters that pay 10,000 dollars to shoot a bull elk that has been hand fed his whole life. Make no mistake about it though Mr. Hockey if your looking for trouble you are looking in the right place. I don't want it but I won't back down either. It is obvious that you are buddies with one or more of the mods because of the violations you have gotten away with in the past but it makes no nevermind to me. Maybe next time you go fish killing a great white will do the world a favor and turn you into shark poop.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt: I don't know you, or anyone else in the debate, but there are few tactics in life as innefectual as talking about something you clearly know nothing about.

If you don't want to appear incredibly ignorant, you should know something about both sides of a topic before commenting.

The fast track to instant loss of credibility is almost any statement that boils down to: "The way I do things is the RIGHT way, and all other ways are for no-talent hacks."

I don't spearfish, but I've tried it in both fresh and saltwater. In my opinion, having done both, spearfishing is much more difficult and takes more hand-eye cordination than lure fishing. It is more physically demanding by probably 10 times, and requires a lot of body control. Those are just the facts.

Yes, there is something more visceral about it, and people who have never done any free diving or tried to stalk a gamefish underwater often do think it's unsportsmanlike.

Personally, I think that hucking a lure into a baitball or casting to fish protecting their spawning beds are far more unsportsmanlike. Free diving and spearfishing are much more athletic, challenging, and sporting than anyone who hasn't tried it can imagine.

You should consider chasing a non-game fish with a spear, or even trying to shoot a pineapple 20 feet underwater with a speargun. I think you would gain some respect for a sport you are knocking from a position of complete ignorance.


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## Dagwood (May 12, 2010)

"If you can't entice a fish to bite a lure it ain't fishing period"

This just makes me laugh hAhahaha   Get clue...

Personally, I think spear fishing in salt water is the most fun there is. Don't tell me that diving down 30' in the cold Pacific ocean to spear a monster Ling or Wolf isn't challenging and fun! It's awesome, you should try it! Fighting a pissed off eel all the way back up to the surface, while trying to control it, and you, and worrying about air, and blood in the water, what a rush!

Don't knock it till' you try it


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

There are always 2 sides to any debate.
This topic is worthy of debate and will be allowed to continue but please remember the forum rules when posting.
I don't want to censor or lock this but I will if forum rules are further ignored.
Keep it clean and voice your opinions.
Thanks,
Grandpa D.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

It may very well be physically demanding to free dive thirty feet. I think spearfishing is just plain wrong. I will continue writing my letters to have it outlawed. I never said my way is the only way or inferred that. As it stands right now it is a legal activity so knock yourselves out. My opinion won't change it is no different than these game ranches that charge outlandish fees to shoot animals that have been hand fed their whole lives. I would not try spearfishing any more than I would pay to shoot a pen raised elk. It should be called fish killing not spearfishing because there is no fishing involved.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm having a hard time understanding your comparison between spearfishing and pen raised elk. All fish whether it be salt or fresh are 100% wild.
Maybe we should call it "blue water hunting" if it makes you feel better.
Just curious if you ever fish for "planter" fish or chase chukers and pheasants that come from planted birds? 
Bet you do


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> My opinion won't change... I would not try spearfishing any more than I would pay to shoot a pen-raised elk...


So you don't know anything about the topic, and you are unwilling to learn. Point made.

I don't have any issues with people making informed arguments one way or another. In fact, in speaking with biologists and fisheries managers I think there are some well-educated and solid reasons to alter spear season dates at Fish Lake (just as one example). I would enjoy seeing some valid biological and/or fisheries management concerns brought up in the debate. At Starvation, I don't think there are any but I'd like someone to challenge that theory.

Lashing out at something you don't understand, expressing unwillingness to try to understand, and then making a comparison that underscores you don't understand... it's a nice trifecta, but not really an argument for/against spearfishing.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Just as a follow up, let me be clear in case I'm not coming across as intended. I'm not going after Luv2fsh&hnt here. What I am saying is that if your letters to politicians operate from the same foundation expressed in this thread, there are no take-aways. It's just an uninformed personal opinion. I am hoping to point this out and have you dig a little deeper.

Why are you opposed to spearfishing? What are the reasons?

Do you think it's easy? Well, I can tell you it's not. It's harder than rod & reel fishing. I've had many, many 100+ fish days with a rod in my hands and have still felt pretty chipper afterwards. Meanwhile going out and spending 2 hours free diving and chasing wary, wild fish around in an environment where they have all the advantages is exhausting, difficult work.

Are you opposed to killing fish? A certain percentage of fish hooked are mortally wounded, even if released. 

Do you think the fish deserves more of a sporting chance? A hooked fish can get off the line, but a spear inflicts a damaging wound. I would say that keeping a fish to eat is keeping a fish to eat, and the efficiency of the method is pretty much semantics. Do you buy fish in a store or restaurants? If so, those fish were caught in VERY unsporting ways.

You've expressed your postion, but I'd like to understand where you are coming from.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> I hope you don't get squat or you shoot one of your buddies! Only dummies that can't fish with a hook and line spearfish.


What is your problem?


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

hockey said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding your comparison between spearfishing and pen raised elk. All fish whether it be salt or fresh are 100% wild.
> Maybe we should call it "blue water hunting" if it makes you feel better.
> Just curious if you ever fish for "planter" fish or chase chukers and pheasants that come from planted birds?
> Bet you do


When fishing one must be adept at fish behavior and have a keen knowledge of how to present a lure to entice a fish to bite even if it isn't actively feeding. Considering that most of the fish are planted nowdays I am sure I have caught planted fish but even at that the fish must decide to eat my lure. I have a 10 yr old daughter and she doesn't even like to target the planted snits but we do from time to time for poops and giggles but they are released unharmed. Spearfishing only requires the fish fail to recognise a threat for the predator to be successful kind of like a pen raised hand fed elk. I do recognise the physical demands required for spearfishing in spite of that I am still adamantly opposed to the taking of game fish with this method. I would also be opposed to bowfishing for gamefish if that were to be considered. I do buy a few chukars and pheasants each year to get my dog tuned up for the hunts but by no stretch of the imagination could that be called hunting. I do not hunt near or around guzzlers as I consider it unsportmanlike to do so. I also do not hunt the chukar opener in fact I usually don't hunt until the hunt has been open for about three weeks. I figure by that time most of the planter birds have been harvested or have gained a healthy fear of humans and dogs. I don't believe Utah plants pheasants except for the youth hunts and the so called cwmu pheasant permit hunts that some cities hold so that question is mute besides that I have had access to private land for pheasants the last couple years. I make no personal judgements on those that participate in this what I consider to be vile activity but will do what I can to get it outlawed as is my right just as it is your right to do it and fight to keep it legal. The saltwater portion of it I do consider to be sporting because there are fish in the ocean that can eat the diver.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> luv2fsh&hnt said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you don't get squat or you shoot one of your buddies! Only dummies that can't fish with a hook and line spearfish.
> ...


This was a sarcastic comment.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

threshershark said:


> Just as a follow up, let me be clear in case I'm not coming across as intended. I'm not going after Luv2fsh&hnt here. What I am saying is that if your letters to politicians operate from the same foundation expressed in this thread, there are no take-aways. It's just an uninformed personal opinion. I am hoping to point this out and have you dig a little deeper.
> 
> Why are you opposed to spearfishing? What are the reasons?
> 
> ...


I never took it as you coming after me Thresher. I recognise the physical rigors and demands of free diving. No I am not opposed to killing fish I keep a few through the year. It is not the killing aspect that bothers me. Spearfishing in the ocean is fine with me because there are predators present in that environment that are higher on the food chain than a human but in freshwater that is not the case. I don't even have a problem with spearfishing for carp just not game fish because all that has to happen for the spearhunter to be successful is for the fish to fail to recognise the threat. I have snorkeled in the carribean ,bear lake,the gorge and at strawberry and could have easily taken fish with a speargun on most occasions because of that experience and the fish lake debacle with the spawning macks I am adamantly opposed to the activity.Hope that clears up my reasons for the position I have taken for you.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> I do buy a few chukars and pheasants each year to get my dog tuned up for the hunts but by no stretch of the imagination could that be called hunting.


Call it what you want, but you still do it. It's amazing you can justify what you do and comdemn spearfishing when all you know about it is what you saw in a few pictures. 


luv2fsh&hnt said:


> I make no personal judgements on those that participate in this


 you have been all along


luv2fsh&hnt said:


> The saltwater portion of it I do consider to be sporting because there are fish in the ocean that can eat the diver.


 Do you have eagles and osprey attacking you in your boat while H&L fishing?


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> When fishing one must be adept at fish behavior and have a keen knowledge of how to present a lure to entice a fish to bite even if it isn't actively feeding.


OK, so out of that whole paragraph this seems to be the only difference between fishing with lures and fishing with a speargun. To restate, a good lure angler needs to *understand the behavior of their target species, and deceive them into taking the lure.* I infer that you feel this requires skill and wisdom that is not present when diving.

This assumes that in spearfishing, the diver does NOT need to trigger the feeding response behavior. Sometimes this is true, but I would submit that a good spearfisherman does need excellent knowledge of fish behavior to be successful. They need to understand how to TRICK a wild game fish into thinking they are not a threat. This deception needs to persist until the gigantic diver is afforded a very close-range shot (usually 8 or 10 feet).

This also shows you haven't done any spearfishing. As an example, wild lake trout are nearly impossible to approach underwater. The technique that is generally used is to *trigger the feeding response with a LURE!* A hand-held tube jig or other lure is wiggled while the diver is holding his breath for extended periods and lying motionless on the bottom in 60° water. When the feeding behavior of the fish is triggered (keep in mind this usually happens when the fish is not actively feeding, exactly as you cite above) the mack can sometimes be lured into range. In this case, a spearfishman then needs the ADDITIONAL skill of being able to make the shot while freezing cold and suppressing the urgent need to breathe.



luv2fsh&hnt said:


> Spearfishing only requires the fish fail to recognise a threat for the predator to be successful


So in other words: Lure fishing. When throwing a lure, you try to avoid spooking the fish and try to trick them into thinking the lure is food and not a threat. Again, I would say that it's a lot easier to trick a fish into thinking a 4" rapala is non-threatening when compared to a 6-foot human being.

I don't buy the argument that spin fisherman need to understand fish behavior any better than a spearfisherman.

Your comment about the danger involved in spearfishing in the ocean makes zero sense, because it implies that danger of personal injury or death by predator is required to validate the tactic. Sitting on a bass boat with a cooler of cold ones within arm's reach hardly meets that requirement.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

threshershark said:


> luv2fsh&hnt said:
> 
> 
> > When fishing one must be adept at fish behavior and have a keen knowledge of how to present a lure to entice a fish to bite even if it isn't actively feeding.
> ...


So in other words: Lure fishing. When throwing a lure, you try to avoid spooking the fish and try to trick them into thinking the lure is food and not a threat. Again, I would say that it's a lot easier to trick a fish into thinking a 4" rapala is non-threatening when compared to a 6-foot human being.

I don't buy the argument that spin fisherman need to understand fish behavior any better than a spearfisherman.

Your comment about the danger involved in spearfishing in the ocean makes zero sense, because it implies that danger of personal injury or death by predator is required to validate the tactic. Sitting on a bass boat with a cooler of cold ones within arm's reach hardly meets that requirement.[/quote:1iutget3]
+1


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> luv2fsh&hnt said:
> 
> 
> > I do buy a few chukars and pheasants each year to get my dog tuned up for the hunts but by no stretch of the imagination could that be called hunting.
> ...


 you have been all alongHave not made a personal judgement but I despise the activity.


luv2fsh&hnt said:


> The saltwater portion of it I do consider to be sporting because there are fish in the ocean that can eat the diver.


 Do you have eagles and osprey attacking you in your boat while H&L fishing?[/quote:yr3rt749]
WTF you talkin about Willis? I suppose they could if they chose too. H&L fishing requires an action on the part of the fish unlike spearing one. :roll:


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> I have snorkeled in the carribean ,bear lake,the gorge and at strawberry and could have easily taken fish with a speargun on most occasions because of that experience and the fish lake debacle with the spawning macks I am adamantly opposed to the activity. Hope that clears up my reasons for the position I have taken for you.


Thanks L2F&H. I can say that I personally had similar thoughts before I had tried spearfishing. I have been involved with SCUBA diving all of my adult life, as a participant and instructor. Having snorkeled and been on SCUBA hundreds of times, I applied above-water rationale to spearfishing. It turns out that range is very deceptive underwater. A mask makes everything appear larger and closer (by about 25%).

It was only when I decided to actually try it that I realized - it's not easy. Go out with someone who spearfishes and sink a 1-liter bottle attached to a rope, with just a little air so it floats in the water column. Try to spear it from more than 8 feet away. I think you will find, as I did, that there is a huge difference between seeing fish on snorkel gear and tagging one.

Now - on the Fish Lake matter - I am in favor of changing the season dates to exclude the mack spawn, but not for any reasons mentioned here. Spearfishermen account for less than 1% of the total lake trout harvest annually at Fish Lake, but they do tend to target the biggest fish at their most vulnerable time. My objections are centered around the killing of mature spawning macks, and not so much the tactic itself. Spawning macks are rarely caught by lures, but good spearfishermen do have success harvesting them.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

threshershark said:


> luv2fsh&hnt said:
> 
> 
> > I have snorkeled in the carribean ,bear lake,the gorge and at strawberry and could have easily taken fish with a speargun on most occasions because of that experience and the fish lake debacle with the spawning macks I am adamantly opposed to the activity. Hope that clears up my reasons for the position I have taken for you.
> ...


I was reading the booklet last week when I was at Bear Lake and they did in fact change the spearfishing season to protect the spawning macks. I will tell you what in the interest of open mindedness I would be willing to try the deal with the submerged bottle or whatever but I will never shoot a fish with a spear. So you spearfisher advocate dudes that have the equipment and are willing here is your chance to change my mind. I will not shoot a fish but would try it on a pineapple or bottle and if the distortion and challenges are as have been described I will quit writing my letters and voicing opposition to your chosen activity.The ball is now in your court spearfishers.


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

> I don't even have a problem with spearfishing for carp just not game fish because all that has to happen for the spearhunter to be successful is for the fish to fail to recognise the threat.


Are the fish not failing to so that what you present to them are a threat and in no way real?
Your logic holds no water. It sounds more like a very personal matter to you and you alone.
So because you don't care for it no one should be able to do it? Your nothing more then an


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

cklspencer said:


> > I don't even have a problem with spearfishing for carp just not game fish because all that has to happen for the spearhunter to be successful is for the fish to fail to recognise the threat.
> 
> 
> Are the fish not failing to so that what you present to them are a threat and in no way real?
> ...


 You are entitled to your opinion sir and I have been called worse by better men than you. See I can get personal too and my statement had no more foundation than yours did as we have never met. Perhaps you should have read the post I made just previous to you posting your self portrait.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I know very little about spear fishing - I'm just learning the different sides of things here so bear with me.

One side is suggesting that spear fishing in all reality, is just another method for taking a limit of fish so why does method matter. 

One side is suggestion that the taking of fish should involve some active action on the fish's part, to be harvested.

Now just thinking outloud here - again, I just trying to learn here and favor neither side. But taking the first argument - spear fishing is hard, it requires skill, and as long as harvested fish fall within legal harvest limits, what's the big deal. I look at my own view of fishing, and for the most part it does not involve harvest at all. I release about 99% of what I catch, and my preferred method is fly fishing small streams. But I also will chuck hardware and bait at times and have a great time doing it. While I've not chased fish with a bow or spear, I can see that is sporting and requires great skill. Heck, I know how much fish will spook when I "line" them while fly fishing. I can respect harvest with spears/bows from what I have learned of those sports.

Second argument - Spearfishing isn't "fishing" because the fish can be harvested through no action on their part. I see where that comes from, but I'm not sure I embrace that. True, I think it does not fit accepted definitions of "fishing." It is more like fish hunting. Our quarry in hunting never really does anything to get shot by arrow or bullet. Deer, elk, birds or bunnies are just doing what they do - and all of a sudden its lights out. To me, as long as I hunt within established legal limits of harvest, I don't care if a guy arrows or shoots a deer. A dead deer is a dead deer to me. 

Funny though. As I wrote that, I thought to myself that I really don't think in-lines should be allowed during the muzzie hunt, I would never think of ground-pounding a pheasant, and I have a strong personal disdain for shooting from roads, or shooting at big game from more than about 400 yards away, and I'd never support using m-80s to harvest a limit of trout. So I guess I have my own set of likes/dislikes of methods for harvest, even when I say "a dead deer is a dead deer." I'm going to have to rethink this some more I think.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I agree 100% Gary. I too am rethinking it and as posted a couple posts above would be willing to try shooting a submerged bottle or pineapple and if it is like described while I don't believe I would ever spear a fish I would lose my disdain for the activity.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Speaking logically to illogical minds will produce zero positive results. I had a dog once that got hit by a mail truck, he lived, but he **** everywhere and never fetched again. 

We put him down........


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## cklspencer (Jun 25, 2009)

Your right I didn't read the your comment obove mine I was do busy doing other things inbetween writting my post.
Good to see you are at least will to try it from the other side and see what it is about.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Speaking logically to illogical minds will produce zero positive results. I had a dog once that got hit by a mail truck, he lived, but he **** everywhere and never fetched again.
> 
> We put him down........


Was that a threat Tree? You think I should be put down? I got hit by a truck once and it was totaled. I had to pay the guys deductible because I was jaywalking. The above is in jest I am just kidding.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Good on ya L2F&H. I don't own a speargun or I'd take ya out for a pumpkin shoot. If no one throws out an invite, I'll see what I can do to borrow a rig. It would be fun to setup an underwater shooting gallery.

Nice post Garyfish. Discussions like this usually circle back to an individual's concept of fair chase. Sportsmen everywhere seem to have a concept of this based on their own experience, as well as influences from the hunting/fishing community.

What is fair chase? There are probably as many answers as sportsmen, but I think the concept is this:

The lawful pursuit of a free-roaming, wild game animal in its natural habitat using means that allow the quarry to leverage the fullness of its instincts, senses, and physical abilities to escape the pursuit.

There is also the concept of "unfair advantage." As an example, does it require great skill to make a 1,500 yard rifle shot on a target the size of a deer consistently? Yes, it takes tremendous skill and practice. Would a hunter equipped with a compensated .416 Barrett have an unfair advantage over a deer's natual abilities and senses when firing from 3/4 of a mile away? In my opinion, yes.

Does a free-swimming, wild fish have all the same means available to escape harvest by spear as a wild deer has to escape harvest by archery tackle? I think those scenarios are very, very similar. I would say yes, both situations afford the quarry full use of their abilities to avoid harvest, and are therefore fair chase.

These waters get muddier the farther you go down the road. Is it fair chase to shoot a bear over bait where the practice is legal? A deer under a feeder? Is it fair chase to target spawning game fish when many of their natural inhibitions are overcome by the urge to reproduce?


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

"Good on ya L2F&H. I don't own a speargun or I'd take ya out for a pumpkin shoot. If no one throws out an invite, I'll see what I can do to borrow a rig. It would be fun to setup an underwater shooting gallery."

Sounds good Thresher. You made some good points in the rest of the post as well. Now I really have to do some thinking


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I guess I will throw my 2 cents in. I was one of the members that had concerns about what happened last year at Fish lake, with the macks getting whacked on the spawning humps. However, this time (and in general), I fail to see what the problem is. The DWR has come out and encouraged harvest of walleyes in fisheries that have them. They have recently done the same for bass. (especially the smaller ones) No limits have been exceeded. The resource at Starvation is not endangered by overharvest by spearfishermen. What is the fuss?

It should also be pointed out that what one considers sporting or ethical in fishing is hardly universal. I have some flyfishing friends that react similarly to what the spearos are getting here when I grab some gear (or worse yet, icefishing equipment) to catch fish. If it isn't your cup of tea then fine (and no amount of debate will likely change that) , but that doesn't mean that opinion should be a general standard for all.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

I have the guns. Just tell me where and when


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

hockey said:


> I have the guns. Just tell me where and when


If he's willing, take him to shoot a couple carp. It will be helping everybody out, so it's a win-win... except for the carp of course. Plus, a swimming pool and a lake are two entirly different environments. Visibility, chill factor, the "unknown" with the endless green haze in front of you, and besides, bottles aren't normally swimming when you shoot at them.

L2F&H, you just went up a notch in my book with just being open minded enough to give it a shot. Good luck.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

hockey said:


> I have the guns. Just tell me where and when


You are the one that has the equipment and knowledge. If your serious shoot me a pm and I will give you my number and we can work it out. I would be willing to try shooting a carp that would probably be more realistic than a bottle or pineapple if it is as tough as everybody says. Actually after thinking about this thread all day I am actually more worried now that it is something that I will like and the last thing I need is another outdoor addiction.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Catherder said:


> I guess I will throw my 2 cents in. I was one of the members that had concerns about what happened last year at Fish lake, with the macks getting whacked on the spawning humps. However, this time (and in general), I fail to see what the problem is. The DWR has come out and encouraged harvest of walleyes in fisheries that have them. They have recently done the same for bass. (especially the smaller ones) No limits have been exceeded. The resource at Starvation is not endangered by overharvest by spearfishermen. What is the fuss?
> 
> *It should also be pointed out that what one considers sporting or ethical in fishing is hardly universal. I have some flyfishing friends that react similarly to what the spearos are getting here when I grab some gear (or worse yet, icefishing equipment) to catch fish. If it isn't your cup of tea then fine (and no amount of debate will likely change that) , but that doesn't mean that opinion should be a general standard for all.*




I agree with this part of your post Catherder completely. It is exactly why I said I would personally give it a try and see for myself. I have always enjoyed a challenge. My wife will probably skin me alive if this turns into another outdoor addiction though.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Grandpa D said:


> I don't understand why you are asking about the move.
> You were not reporting a fishing trip.
> When you have returned from the trip, by all means report in the Fishing Trip Forum.
> Grandpa D.


Hmmmm well, it appears he is back now. Shouldn't this be moved to fishing reports again? Besides, I thought Nortah was the only person on the forums authorized to call out folks for posting in the wrong forums? :? On the spearing thing.... glad to see the good discussion and kudos to the mods for letting it continue instead of just locking it because it got heated.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

UtahHuntingDirect said:


> hockey said:
> 
> 
> > I have the guns. Just tell me where and when
> ...


 I have learned over time that it is almost never wise to be so rigid in my opinions because one misses out on a big part of life. If someone takes me up on my offer and if I like it or if it is as challenging as they say even if I don't like it I will admit I was wrong publicly on this forum.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Dudes!


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> Now I really have to do some thinking


 :shock: Why start now Larry ??? -/|\- -/|\- -O|o-


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Grandpa D said:


> tuffluckdriller said:
> 
> 
> > Going spearfishing at starvation in an hour! Finally! We haven't had the chance all year to get out spearfishing. It's nice to live so close.
> ...


I disagree Dale....the DWR requires a Utah State fishing license and even has a category for spearfishing records..http://www.utahdiving.com/regul.htm


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

Again, to the mods, some guy posted something in the Fishing Trip reports about salmon fishing he was GOING TO DO. 

I did the same thing, and then reported the trip. Please move this back to the reports forum, where I put it in the first place.

On the spearfishing discussion, it's all been said pretty well. Good debate. 

I'll not stop spearfishing. I only get to go maybe 2 times a year. We're lucky if we even get a game fish, let alone any carp. We don't hurt the fishery in the least!

I'll say it again. It sure is a BLAST! It's a rush like few other things. 

If one really loves to fish and hunt, then spearfishing fits right in there with any other type of harvesting.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> I thought Nortah was the only person on the forums authorized to call out folks for posting in the wrong forums? :?


And dont you forget it! :O||: Hey someones gotta do it. :lol:


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

At first it wasn't a 'fish'n' report so it was the right thing to do and move it. You could've made a new post on the 'actual' results of the trip in the fish'n report section but you opted not to make a report in that section so it appears. 

Now on spearfishing itself makes no never mind to me provided it's in compliance with requirements. 

I've never spearfished...only gigged Carp back home as a kid. I find it more of a challenge H&L fish'n. Plus I get to stimulate the economy more and I like helping out the economy. For example diversity in lures (colors, sizes, shapes (don't think spearfishing has spears in different colors, sizes, shapes...could be wrong thoug)), rods/reels, leaders, line, boat and all the other equipment (rod holders, nets, bump boards, fish finder, the list goes on with a boat. Next the art of learning a species and working the offerings to entice a bite, not necessarily site fish'n but it can be. I like being surprized by what tugs on the line...spearfishing would definitely limit that for me. I also like looking at the scenery ...think'n that would be very limited spearfishing...but again I've never done it. Finally, fish'n underwater just plain and simple doesn't appeal to me in any way-shape-or-form...but hey if you enjoy it more power to ya. Just watch out for the H&L folks dragging-a-line...


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Ok I made the offer to give this spearfishing a try and have yet to recieve a pm so I could give a phone number and set something up. Hell I even found my fins I haven't located my mask and snorkel yet but would like to get this done so I can see if I was being over judgemental or if I was correct in my assumptions.


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## freepunk (Sep 17, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> Ok I made the offer to give this spearfishing a try and have yet to recieve a pm so I could give a phone number and set something up. Hell I even found my fins I haven't located my mask and snorkel yet but would like to get this done so I can see if I was being over judgemental or if I was correct in my assumptions.


I am busy or would defiantly take you out but I will talk too some guys and see if we can work something out. I think its great your willing to give it a try.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

PM sent


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## scubadown16 (Oct 9, 2008)

Spearfishing did someone say spearfishing.... Been awhile I been out spearfishing... Who wants to go.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I got your pm Hockey and responded with one. Just let me know Freepunk and we will see what can be worked out. My interest is really piqued even if I may have to eat my words but at the very least I will get to meet some new people that are passionate about the outdoors and who knows maybe pick up a new outdoor addiction.


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