# Farmington Dike hunters need to be controlled!!



## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I headed out to FB yesterday evening with my brother and watched as 4 groups of dike hunters shot sky bombs all day!! I understand you can't enforce a range limit but the laws about wasting game state that you have to make a (reasonable effort) to retrieve your kill.
Do these guys sitting on a dike with no waders and no dog, shooting ducks 100 yards above them think they have a reasonable chance of retrieving those ducks? 
It is not even possible, the duck is flying say 20 mph and is 60 yards high. You have to wait till the duck is straight above you and so even if you knock him stone dead it is going to drop at least 50-100 yards out into the water!!
I know a lot of you guys on here have made comments about this before and we all can't stand these kind of hunters but I feel very moved to do something about this.
Obviously the DWR doesn't care about ducks being crippled because I know they see this all the time out there. Me and my brother watched 6 ducks get crippled and fly off a few hundred yards and 3 ducks fall dead at least 150 yards away from the dike and they never got retrieved. My brother is visiting from Louisiana and made the rifle Elk hunt, as he watched what was going on and he was shocked that the DWR doesn't bust this kind of behavior. 
We got to talking and I have made a decision about what I feel is the right thing to do. I'm going to duck hunt more this year and while I'm out there I'm going to film what goes on at the dike it will be easy to get very poor hunting ethics on film. I am then going to contact the DWR and show them the films. If they are outraged and seem as though they are going to put a stop to it great, although I'm not counting on it because I've mentioned it to the CO at FB and he didn't seem to interested.
If I don't get results from that I'm going to spread the video all over every waterfowl website and message board all over the the country, every state has a site like Utahwildlife.net. Those other states already hate the northern states because the southern states don't get funding from D.U. I will also contact Ducks Unlimited to use their muscle to have them put a stop to this. 
I'm sure that if all the other states knew just how much waterfowl gets slaughtered and wasted at Utah's dikes each day of the season they will be screaming about it.
Trust me I would hate to put that kind of video on the web for PETA to use but like I said I'll go to the DWR first, it will be their own fault for allowing it to continue.

All of the publicity of unethical hunting in Utah may have some bad consequences and I'd rather keep from going that route. How many of you on this site will come together and have a loud voice to the DWR to simply enforce the wanton waste laws!!!

I would like to get a group of guys together to do something about this problem before I have to contact D.U.
Who is with me?


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I don't think it's quite as bad as you're saying. There are a few that do stupid things and fb has those type of hunters on that main dike, along with other wma's on there main dikes. I'm nowhere near them so I don't have to deal with them, but lets not forget, it's not just dike hunters. I see plenty of boaters and walk in hunters sky blast like crazy and dump birds they probably can't retrieve. and lets not just limit this to utah, have you ever watched a duck hunting show in other states? a bird comes in way high and out pop 7 guys raining a dozen shells before the bird goes down. I'm with ya on filming illegal actions and turning them into the division so a citation might be given but turning that over to anti hunting groups or publicising that utah hunters slaughter ducks in an unethical manner seems pretty childish and dumb. I think there does need to be more education on ethics in hunter safety classes, I also think signs up at fb warning about wanton waste citations, aka not retrieving your birds.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I know the dike hunters are not the only idiots out there trust me!! The problem I see with the dike guys is that it is obviously not possible for them to even have a chance to get the ducks. It is not just a FB it is all the dikes because any dumb goober can walk out and shoot at birds! Like you said you are far away from the dike, go sit and watch what is really going on and you will be outragged! Anyone who is ok with being able to recover a quater of what they shoot should not be hunting. If trying to get people to stop crippling birds by forcing the issue is childish than so be it, and like I said that would be the last option. So, to keep that from happening lets get together and get a big group of guys together!!

If you think it is a lack of education I would have to dissagree, anyone who can count to 2 can figure out after shooting a duck and watching him fall out of reach that it is not a good method to hunt!!


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

I feel like chiming in here, but maybe not in a way you expect.

First of all, let me say I appreciate and respect your enthusiasm, and obvious respect for the fowl. I don't think you will be hard pressed to find people who agree with you that some of the ethics portrayed by hunters in our public marshes leave lots to be desired, myself included. Not many people want to see that kind of behavior continue. 

However, I feel inclined to speak up about the DWR and Utah's CO's. In my opinion, your statements about the DWR not caring, and letting the behaviors happen in their plain sight are not fair. There are a few reasons I say that. First, for example, the employees who run/manage FBWMA are not conservation officers. I could be wrong here, but I don't believe they have any authority to issue citations or anything. They are more-so the stewards of the WMA lands and marshes. That being said, you can't fault them for not doing something they are not empowered to do.

Second, in regards to conservation officers themselves. I have had the opportunity to meet a handful of our local CO's through volunteering, and with events such as the mentored youth hunt. All of them I have met are stand up individuals who work VERY hard to protect the laws and game in our state. You have to realize they are responsible for all types of fishing and hunting, and MASSIVE amounts of areas across this great state of ours. Fall brings even more logistical problems as they are spread even thinner trying to cover all the different seasons and hunts going on. There is no doubt in my mind that they absolutely do care about what goes on at the WMA's, but you have to have realistic expectations as to what a limited amount of men/women can do. I know I was personally checked twice last year while hunting on public land, and was impressed both times at the efforts the CO made to do so. You could literally have 2 CO's full time, every day at FB, and still not expect them to be able to cover everything happening out there. Now factor in that unfortunately that many CO's are not available to be in one place at the same time on a regular basis, and you start to see the scope of things is. I believe they are doing the best they can, and we have to work with them, rather than throw them under the bus and blame them. 

My suggestion is to take a bit less of a "pitchfork and torch" mentality, and make efforts to meet some of the CO's who tend to cover areas in which you hunt. Once you know them, work on the same team. Help them be aware of what you see. I even have phone numbers of a few I know now, and can call them if I witness crimes, etc. Use them as a resource where possible. Long before I had ever met any of them, I helped turn in some guys who shot swans illegally merely by using the poaching phone number in the proclamation. There are small things that can be done to help everybody out, without mobbing and blaming. 

Now, I reiterate, this is only my opinion. You are obviously passionate about yours, and I respect that, and hope some good comes of your efforts. I just thought I could offer a bit of a different view to the overall logistics of the situation.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

good luck with that... :O•-: :lol: 

its going to be about like the war on phrag. kind of a lost cause.

BTW, dike hunters arent the only ones who skybust.... guys in MMs do it too as well as bike riders, paddlers and other foot soldiers. you should see when a goose flies over the turpin unit :shock: thats quality entertainment!! :twisted: im even guilty of it. to some its called sky busting, to others its call optimism  cant enforce a range rule. cant write up someone for being optimistic. but i wish you well on your efforts.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Hog, did you call in the violations? I've done that a couple of times, and the CO's were very responsive and appreciative. Nothing like lightening a guy's wallet to teach him ethics.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

Well, they could be the new JR Commander hunters. You could maybe talk to them and let them know there are feds out watching for those who don't retrieve their ducks. Or you could suggest getting decoys and shooting at them when they are closer.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Gander,
I totally agree with you about the CO's I have met a few of them and think they are great I have called up and gotten great info on how to hunt Elk in years past. I have defended the Utah DWR many times on this site and taken heat for it. My thing is it seems so easy to simply put signs up and just make some kind of law like you must have waders or a dog to hunt the dike. Something could be done to help the situation. I'm not saying I'm going to just flame the DWR. I'm going to go to them FIRST and if like I said they seem to want to do something about it GREAT!!! I know those guys work their butts off!!! 
Up at Echo Henefer WMA I ran into a CO. CAMPING overnight to catch guys using 4 wheelers!!! That is insane dedication!!! Maybe my post was a little heated but you have to understand I think we all should try to do our best. I have taken dumb shots and lost birds, we all have. BUT I have never set up in a location were I have an almost impossible chance on getting my game and am just hoping for dumb luck the bird falls at my feet!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> good luck with that... :O•-: :lol:
> 
> its going to be about like the war on phrag. kind of a lost cause.
> 
> BTW, dike hunters arent the only ones who skybust.... guys in MMs do it too as well as bike riders, paddlers and other foot soldiers. you should see when a goose flies over the turpin unit :shock: thats quality entertainment!! :twisted: im even guilty of it. to some its called sky busting, to others its call optimism  cant enforce a range rule. cant write up someone for being optimistic. but i wish you well on your efforts.


I'm not talking about sky busting that isn't the issue, I'm talking about how to retrieve the duck even if you kill it.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

paddler213 said:


> Hog, did you call in the violations? I've done that a couple of times, and the CO's were very responsive and appreciative. Nothing like lightening a guy's wallet to teach him ethics.


No because this happens everyday at that dike and many others!! It is not about a case by case solution we need a program to keep it from being so rampade.

I archery hunt the extended and have to take the online course. Somethin like that could be applied which lets them know the rules and if they don't obay the rules the dike could be shut down.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

If you call it in and they are cited or even just warned, they will learn a lifelong lesson. Their buddies will, too. Do what you can, where you can, when you can.

I was up at Salt Creek one day, walking out after shooting ended. I walked over near some guys who were shooting late and let them know. They said some smart*ss comment about "new rules". The CO met them at their truck and cited all three. I think it was about $100 each.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Spreading video of poor ethics isn't going to help the cause at all, it is going to hurt the sport. The PETA folk and anti-hunting movements would love nothing more than a first-hand video of such activity. You'd be smearing mud all over about hunting. Call the CO's, take plate numbers, etc. Chances are if they are too lazy to attempt to retrieve their ducks they are too lazy to get a HIP number, duck stamp, make sure no lead shells are in their jackets, put the plug back in after the pheasant hunt, etc. 
If you make a call to a CO don't use wording such as "These bozos are skybusting and shooting at ducks way too high", instead use wording like "these hunters have shot and killed 4 ducks and have made no effort to retrieve them and are still hunting, not counting those birds as part of their bag limit." or "These 2 hunters have wounded a limit of ducks and not tried or been able to retrieve any of them and both are still hunting." That will get you a response quicker than anything. It is a shame people "hunt" that way but your approach of bombarding unethical video across the internet is not a good idea at all.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

hoghunter011583 said:


> shaun larsen said:
> 
> 
> > good luck with that... :O•-: :lol:
> ...


No sky busting is the root of the issue....lots of people let birds sail off into the bushes and never go look for them or count them as their limit. Ill bet 80% of those birds that crash land were sky bombed....


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Who hunts Dikes in Farmington anyway? If I were hunting Dikes, I would concentrate my efforts at the gay pride parade next summer...


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Hee Haw! Get out the bacon, it's the Utah duck season. 

Man, I love this time of year.


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## huntingbuddy (Sep 10, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Who hunts Dikes in Farmington anyway? If I were hunting Dikes, I would concentrate my efforts at the gay pride parade next summer...


Zing -_O-


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## huntingbuddy (Sep 10, 2007)

I agree with Greenhead_Slayer. Spreading those kinds of video is the exactly what anti-hunting groups want, in fact stuff like that comes straight out of their play book. Documenting license plates, actions, and etc will be the way to put a dent in this. Then working with the CO's to help them catch these guys and make them pay. Just as has been said earlier the CO's can't be everywhere at once. We are their eyes and their ears. By being a good witness you will help the CO's prosecute the sky busters.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

huntingbuddy said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> > Who hunts Dikes in Farmington anyway? If I were hunting Dikes, I would concentrate my efforts at the gay pride parade next summer...
> ...


 :mrgreen: I'll be here all week. Try the veal and tip your waitress!


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## one8sevenn (Mar 27, 2012)

Dude, I feel your pain. Last Year I retrieved a couple birds for them when going to get my birds last year at Harold Crane. They weren't even grateful for this act. I watched them throw the birds in the bush from a ways down the dike. I picked up the birds on the way out. BTW this was not an easy retrieve, If you have ever hunted the Crane, then you know the Mud is 2-3 feet thick.

I like your idea. I would stick to it. I hope your idea works.


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## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

You would get a better reaction if you presented it to the Rac. Instead of pointing fingers and crying foul, suggest a change in watefowl laws for instance:

All hunters must have a retriever or waders when hunting waterfowl at wma's or within 1/4 mile of water.

Pretty simple if you ask me!! I try to worry about myself and not others till a law in the books is broke, Just Sayin!!!


DiverFreak


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Ok lets back up guys, I'm not just trying to spread some unethical video for PETA to use, as I know all of us are not wanting that to happen. I'm going to put my best effort to ending the unethical slaughter of birds on the dikes and like I said, going to the division is my first approach. You guys are hitting me first on my last option instead of commenting on my first action. Like I said, I am going to video these clowns and go to the DWR and then if it is not taken care of I'll try to get YOU GUYS to get together to put even more pressure on the DWR to enforce the laws. If that doesn't work I'll go even farther and put the videos public and at that point I feel no guilt about whatever happens. If I go to the enforcement agents and they don't enforce the law, then I go to fellow law abiding waterfowlers and they don't give a rats and just ignore what is going on what other option do I have other than just ignoring what is going on?
I just want to come up with a way to control what is going on out there. It looks to me like the dike hunters are skeet shooting at ducks!! I think it is great that we have such great access to duck hunting but it must be kept in accordance with the law!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

paddler213 said:


> If you call it in and they are cited or even just warned, they will learn a lifelong lesson. Their buddies will, too. Do what you can, where you can, when you can.
> 
> I was up at Salt Creek one day, walking out after shooting ended. I walked over near some guys who were shooting late and let them know. They said some smart*ss comment about "new rules". The CO met them at their truck and cited all three. I think it was about $100 each.


That is great, but what you saw happens all day everyday!! I'm wanting to to really put an end to it. Making this kind of behavior end is not that hard!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="shaun larsen":1ceavg2w]good luck with that... :O•-: :lol:
> ...


No sky busting is the root of the issue....lots of people let birds sail off into the bushes and never go look for them or count them as their limit. Ill bet 80% of those birds that crash land were sky bombed....[/quote:1ceavg2w]

The difference is that the rest of us have the ability to retrieve our birds. Can you really say that the dike hunters retrieve the same percentage of kills as the other methods? NO WAY!!!!!!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

diverfreak said:


> You would get a better reaction if you presented it to the Rac. Instead of pointing fingers and crying foul, suggest a change in watefowl laws for instance:
> 
> All hunters must have a retriever or waders when hunting waterfowl at wma's or within 1/4 mile of water.
> 
> ...


Just sayin??? 
laws on the books are being broken!! as I stated in my original post, unreal how I even have to argue this issue!!
What you guys are saying is that you are ok with guys shooting birds without a way to retrieve them?????? if that is the case I'm pretty shocked, I thought you guys were WAY MORE upstanding than that!!!


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## birdboy (Sep 11, 2007)

Work smarter not harder...

CO's are stretched very thin across the state, especially this time of year. Keep in mind a few things...

First, Skybusting... although may not be ethical, is it illegal? What law did they break? Better yet, how do you prove in a court of law that shooting at "that range" was illegal? The range from where the dike shooter is looks vastly different then that same range from a couple hundred yards away. Now go into court and "prove without a reasonable doubt that they violated the law." By the way that is the State's burden to prove not the defendants.

Unfortunately the easier thing to prove would be watching them fail to attempt to retrieve a downed bird. In which case calling the poaching hot line will produce results. 

I appload your efforts, but in my opinion you are headed down the wrong path...


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

I am not always a 'dike hunter', but when I do, I hunt Farmington Bay. 

Last year and this year I have hunted off of the dikes at F.B., only because of the fact that I have 3 young boys that I take hunting with me and it would be nearly impossible to take them into the deep water and phragmite choked wilderness. I have witnessed a lot of skybusting and a few instances of guys not retrieving birds. Hunting from the dikes can be done effectively and ethically. I shot 6 ducks, all of which were taken at less than 40 yards with only 14 shells, on my most recent hunt, while hunting from the dike. I wear chest waders and I have a dog. Taking a 9 and two 7 year olds hunting can be challenging. I look forward to when they will be able to hack the marsh to hunt better areas. Until then, we will hunt from the dikes and only shoot at birds in range. 

Specifically at Farmington, I have more concern about overlimits of redheads being shot than any other thing. 2 redheads per day is fair. Shooting more than that is poaching. Where are the C.O.'s??? If I were a C.O., I would hang out there with a pair of good binos and a sharp pencil and take names and issue a pile of citations. 

Skybusting is not a violation, but wanton destruction of wildlife IS!!! If guys are shooting at birds 100 yards up, I really don't think they are hitting anything. Birds shot at between 50 and 80 yards have a higher chance of being marginally hit and sailing off to seagull-food land.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

The solution to the problem is to educate these newbie hunters on hunting ethics and proper behavior when hunting around other hunters. If they don't want to participate in hunting public hunting areas in the proper manner then more stern measures should be taken by the DNR and law enforcement. A few jerks should not be allowed to ruin a day of hunting for the many good law abiding hunters that are out hunting. This includes those hunting by walking out, biking out and boating out to hunt these areas. If someone is hunting off the dikes without waders or at least hip boots they should be cited by law enforcement and not allowed to hunt until they have proper waders to retrive their downed ducks. Shooting of any birds and coots without retriving them should be reported and laws enforced. Picking up spent shotgun shells,drink containers and trash should be enforced on the dike areas. I believe the fine for littering in these areas is about $300.00.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Ok lets back up guys, I'm not just trying to spread some unethical video for PETA to use, as I know all of us are not wanting that to happen. I'm going to put my best effort to ending the unethical slaughter of birds on the dikes and like I said, going to the division is my first approach. You guys are hitting me first on my last option instead of commenting on my first action. Like I said, I am going to video these clowns and go to the DWR and then if it is not taken care of I'll try to get YOU GUYS to get together to put even more pressure on the DWR to enforce the laws. If that doesn't work I'll go even farther and put the videos public and at that point I feel no guilt about whatever happens. If I go to the enforcement agents and they don't enforce the law, then I go to fellow law abiding waterfowlers and they don't give a rats and just ignore what is going on what other option do I have other than just ignoring what is going on?
> I just want to come up with a way to control what is going on out there. It looks to me like the dike hunters are skeet shooting at ducks!! I think it is great that we have such great access to duck hunting but it must be kept in accordance with the law!!


Have you personally called the poaching hot line or a CO and reported someone not attempting to retrieve ducks they've killed? It seems like we're jumping to a conclusion that CO's don't want to enforce this. They are short handed no doubt, but if someone calls the poaching line with a time, date, location, description, and better yet a license plate number I have a really hard time believing they would turn their heads and not want to enforce it.

So here is an idea for you, put the poaching hot line phone number in your cell phone. The next time you see someone breaking the law of not attempting to retrieve a duck, call the hotline then and there. Don't mention a word about skybusting. Simply say this person at this place shot a duck (don't mention if its crippled or stone dead, the requirement is the same to retrieve it) and made no effort to retrieve it and is still hunting. If you are extra motivated and if it works (like an evening hunt when you will be coming back at the same time) wait in the parking lot and get a license plate number and vehicle description. Don't be confrontational, simply get the plate number as they are levaing. Call back the next day to fo follow up, if a CO couldn't get to the area give them the plate and vehicle description.


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

Greenhead_Slayer said:


> Have you personally called the poaching hot line or a CO and reported someone not attempting to retrieve ducks they've killed? It seems like we're jumping to a conclusion that CO's don't want to enforce this. They are short handed no doubt, but if someone calls the poaching line with a time, date, location, description, and better yet a license plate number I have a really hard time believing they would turn their heads and not want to enforce it.
> 
> So here is an idea for you, put the poaching hot line phone number in your cell phone. The next time you see someone breaking the law of not attempting to retrieve a duck, call the hotline then and there. Don't mention a word about skybusting. Simply say this person at this place shot a duck (don't mention if its crippled or stone dead, the requirement is the same to retrieve it) and made no effort to retrieve it and is still hunting. If you are extra motivated and if it works (like an evening hunt when you will be coming back at the same time) wait in the parking lot and get a license plate number and vehicle description. Don't be confrontational, simply get the plate number as they are levaing. Call back the next day to fo follow up, if a CO couldn't get to the area give them the plate and vehicle description.


Exactly. Take the steps you can take now, and see if you get results. It is not fair to say the state or CO's don't care if you aren't giving them a chance in the first place. Play on the same team as them, help them where you can, and go from there.

Although I agree that the dog and/or wader requirement law would probably help on the dikes, there is NO WAY that could be made into law. Just think about it, all it would take is one lawsuit saying they can't afford waders so they are being discriminated against for use of public lands, or that they are allergic to dogs, or religeously opposed to neoprene, blah, blah, blah. Stupid excuses I know, but you know it would happen if they tried to legally restrict access in a public WMA by saying you have to have something.

It's an uphill battle, so all you can do is work with the resources you have and have faith that others are giving their best as well. (DWR, CO's, etc. ) Assuming nobody cares is the wrong approach.


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## Hunt1Fish2 (Dec 19, 2007)

So with this proposal I am going to have to go borrow my mom’s 14 year old miniature maltase. Sure he will fit in a pocket but the dogs blind and he gets cold easily. :lol:


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## one8sevenn (Mar 27, 2012)

So with these new rules, can I have an exception? Sometimes I go out to Cutler Marsh without waders or a dog, but I retrieve birds with a top water plug on my fishing pole. I also use the same technique while jump shooting the Weber River. I will wear nothing more than waterproof boots, and I have retrieved everything that I have killed. I think I will use the same technique the next time I go out to Harold Crane to avoid the Mud. 

In all seriousness. I like the calling the law idea. I may start doing that. Going the route of the Anonymous Andy.

This crap is ridiculous, why hunt ducks if you are going to make no attempt to retrieve them?

Another Question: Sometimes when the weather is right and the ducks are in flight -(By this I mean rainy/windy -****ty weather) I will drop a few birds before I make an attempt to retrieve. What is going to be the leeway on this? Do you have to do an immediate retrieve even if the bird is stone dead?


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

birdboy said:


> Work smarter not harder...
> 
> CO's are stretched very thin across the state, especially this time of year. Keep in mind a few things...
> 
> ...


Range isn't the issue, retrieval is the issue period!!!!! If my path is wrong than tell me what is the right approach?


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Range isn't the issue, retrieval is the issue period!!!!! If my path is wrong than tell me what is the right approach?


Are you reading all the responses here??? You have been told another approach multiple times. Start by getting to know CO's and calling them, and/or calling the poaching hotline in the guidebook when you see laws being broken. Be courteous and detailed in your description of the violations, gather as much detail as you can about the violators, such as license plate numbers, descriptions, etc., and work on the same team as the law.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

gander311 said:


> hoghunter011583 said:
> 
> 
> > Range isn't the issue, retrieval is the issue period!!!!! If my path is wrong than tell me what is the right approach?
> ...


I already commented to paddler about that method, I think it is like trying to cure the flu by cleaning up the vomit. I am however going to work with the division like I said multiple times already. 
My issue has nothing to do with how far these guys want to shoot at ducks. 
What about something like the archery safety course that you have to take to hunt the extended? It'd be free, online and would let people know the law and the consequences to breaking the law. It may not help at all but it would be a reminder not to behave the way many of those guys do.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

birdboy said:


> Work smarter not harder...
> 
> CO's are stretched very thin across the state, especially this time of year. Keep in mind a few things...
> 
> ...


Please lets stay on track here, the law that is being broken is not some mithical sky busting law, it is the wanton waste law!!
How do you prove that? Simple if a guy shoots 8 ducks, 5 of wich fall 40 yards into open water and he has no ability to retrieve them yet he continues shooting in the same situation and you have a video of this I'd say that is all the proof you need!! I mean if a C.O saw you do that he could give you a ticket so a video would also prove guilt.

Calling the poaching hotline would be great but here is the problem, it is going to happen again as soon as that C.O leaves!! Like I said I am not looking to get a little small group of guys tickets and teach them a lesson, I'm wanting to put together a method of acctually controlling how the dikes are hunted.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> birdboy said:
> 
> 
> > Work smarter not harder...
> ...


You STILL won't answer my question. Have you personally called the poaching hot line or a CO and reported someone not attempting to retrieve ducks they've killed? Once somene gets a nice ticket for wanton waste they'll think twice before doing it again, especially if people are consistent enough to call in with good info.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

An even better approach would be to offer these poor lads your assistance in retrieving their birds, and educating them on the need to conserve the resource. That way you get to make new friends, and get to know them and where they are from. This information is really helpful when you turn them in to the COs.


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## nk1nk (Nov 15, 2011)

I love how the disdain for dike hunters turns into a wanton waste issue. I hunt out of a friends boat and I also **** hunt thru out the week and I can tell you out on the shore line is like the wild wild west hunters know that a warden is unlikely out there watching them and there are guys out there that hunt all day long and shoot multiple limits then stomp the ugly ones in the mud and bring 7 home. Don't just single out the hunting style you don't like. And as far as waste, my opinion is a VERY high percentage goes right in the dumpster when hunters get home or sit in the freezer until they have freezer burn then get thrown out. 

Also its been mentioned but I will down 2 or 3 ducks in open water before I retrieve them so don't assume a hunter is leaving a duck if he doesn't sprint out a grab them.


Nick


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

I dunno which dike youve been hunting, but the one I've hunted at FB, usually had a foot race between several people to the downed bird, even when they never fired a shot at it! There's been multiple occasions when I dropped several birds in a day and I didn't have to retrieve them because someone ran faster than me! :lol: nothin better than shooting your limit and not having to even pick one up! its not as bad as you make it out to be. For the most part, if a bird goes down in sight, people will make an effort to retrieve it. There's always that one guy who doesn't, but there's one in every crowd.


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

I feel like this is just going in circles, but here is how it seems at this point. You came on here about a problem you are witnessing in the marshes of our state. You stated your suggestion, and asked what people thought. You now have 4 pages of posts in response with peoples opinions and suggestions, most of which you have disregarded as not suitable in your opinion. 

I think it is fair to say you apparently have it in your mind what you are going to do, so good luck with your intentions, but don't ask for peoples opinions and input and then shoot down everything that gets suggested to you. 

Best of luck in your ventures, and good hunting to you this year.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Green head I did answere that question just go back and read a little bit before you jump down my throat, I'm not going to answere the same question from every post.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

nk1nk said:


> I love how the disdain for dike hunters turns into a wanton waste issue. I hunt out of a friends boat and I also **** hunt thru out the week and I can tell you out on the shore line is like the wild wild west hunters know that a warden is unlikely out there watching them and there are guys out there that hunt all day long and shoot multiple limits then stomp the ugly ones in the mud and bring 7 home. Don't just single out the hunting style you don't like. And as far as waste, my opinion is a VERY high percentage goes right in the dumpster when hunters get home or sit in the freezer until they have freezer burn then get thrown out.
> 
> Also its been mentioned but I will down 2 or 3 ducks in open water before I retrieve them so don't assume a hunter is leaving a duck if he doesn't sprint out a grab them.
> 
> Nick


I often let multiple birds sit on the water before I go get them, but I have the ability to go get them. 
As for the guys in the boats shoving birds in the mud, I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it is a totally different issue. If a guy throws his birds in the dumpster that is on his head because it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to enforce the waste law on a guy that does that.
We are mixing all kinds of issues up on this one because in my opinion there is no real defence for it.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

shaun larsen said:


> I dunno which dike youve been hunting, but the one I've hunted at FB, usually had a foot race between several people to the downed bird, even when they never fired a shot at it! There's been multiple occasions when I dropped several birds in a day and I didn't have to retrieve them because someone ran faster than me! :lol: nothin better than shooting your limit and not having to even pick one up! its not as bad as you make it out to be. For the most part, if a bird goes down in sight, people will make an effort to retrieve it. There's always that one guy who doesn't, but there's one in every crowd.


Maybe what you are saying is true and if so I'm glad to be wrong. The times I've seen this kind of behavior is just about every time I get near the dike. I have seen it 3 times at FB and 2 times at howard slough, which is every time I've hunted near the dike!! It could just be coincidence I'm not ruling that out at all.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Gander you are dead wrong, read my first post! I didn't come on here asking for suggestions and opinions about this issue. I said what I was planning on doing and asked others to get together to have a louder voice than 1 person and go to the DWR to try to enforce the waste laws. That has nothing to do with getting opinions of what others think I need to do. If they want to just call up each time they see a violation I think that is great!!
We have had the ability to do that forever and it obviously isn't changing things. Maybe the problem isn't as big as I think it is but everytime I hunt in front the dikes I see this happening. I could get a limit by chasing those guys cripples in my canoe!!
You are correct that it is fair to say I already have it in my mind what I intend to do, if you read my first post that is clear. I stated in detail what I planned to do and wanted to see if anyone else wanted to help out, obviously they don't and that is fine with me. 
Time to shop for a camera.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Also like I said I did tell the C.O. about it the second time I witnessed it and he said yeah those guys do end up losing a lot of birds. So, that is why I say it seems they don't care.


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## nk1nk (Nov 15, 2011)

I often let multiple birds sit on the water before I go get them, but I have the ability to go get them. 
*As for the guys in the boats shoving birds in the mud, I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it is a totally different issue.* If a guy throws his birds in the dumpster that is on his head because it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to enforce the waste law on a guy that does that.
We are mixing all kinds of issues up on this one because in my opinion there is no real defence for it.[/quote]

Hog,

the more you post the more I think your an idiot. Guys in boats stomping ducks in the mud is the EXACT same crime as guys who do not retrieve ducks, not kinda the same, not almost the same, its the EXACT same thing, its called wanton waste and both lack equally in enforcement. Please stop painting **** hunters with such broad stroke, just because some ******* has a boat and a dog doesn't make him an ethical hunter, on the contrary boat hunters contribute far more to your wasted game than you think. Take your video camera farther out in the marsh.

Nick


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Ok mr. nick first off I didn't come on here and call anyone out on how they feel different than me. If you know of guys shoving birds in the mud I'd like to know what you did about it, is it your buddy with the boat that you hunt out of?? It is pretty obvious when guys shoot ducks off the dike for all of us to see and let them just sit 100 yards out in the water and never get retrieved. As for me I've made hundreds of duck hunts and out of the 8 hunts I've made near the dikes I've seen un-ethical actions from the dike hunters that is 100% of the time and in all that time I've seen maybe a dozen guys in boats do stupid things. Of course some of the boat guys are total goobers and the law should come down on them as hard as possible but if you go to a WMA and sit on a dike it is so obvious what is going on is not right!!!
So tell me the story about the guys you know who shove a whole limit of birds in the mud and take the pretty ones home!! I never called anyone on here an idiot for what they think is the right thing to do, I'm just trying to keep guys from wasting birds. If you know of guys who shove ducks in the mud YOU need to deal with it, I've NEVER seen that happen and if I did I'd do something about it. I have seen guys in boats be unethical but not half as much as the guys on the dike. I'm just being honest and anyone who watches the dikes can see it.
If you think the bigger problem is the guys in the boats that go after them and I'll go after the guys on the dikes!!

Now on a side note you are very quick to say you think I'm an idiot over the net so you've lost all my respect from me because you seem to be the typical brave internet guy!! Really tough online!!
The bottom line is that I'm wanting to stop guys from being unethical on the dikes, and you call me an idiot, wow I guess up is down if you are in hell buddy!!


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## nk1nk (Nov 15, 2011)

Hog,

Your right calling you an idiot was out of line and I apologize. Just frustrating when a guy seems to have an issue with one group of people when another group is as guilty.

And your right you get the **** guys and I will get the boaters.

Nick


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Range isn't the issue, retrieval is the issue period!!!!! If my path is wrong than tell me what is the right approach?


I'm dead wrong? You never asked anybody else's opinion? Wow, I don't know about you, but where I come from, that is exactly what your quote above is... :roll:

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question as asking for another approach, but that is how I interpreted it. That can be a problem with the internet and forums, there is no emotion in typing, and intent can easily be lost or misconstrued.

Like I said from the beginning, I admire your enthusiasm and passion on the issue. We obviously see things a bit different, but that is the great thing about where we live. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I am being honest when I say I hope you have success in what you are trying to accomplish.


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## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

This problem has been going on that dike for as long as I can remember, 20 years at least.

Simple solution is to not allow hunting on the dike. A couple of signs in each direction from the parking lot and problem solved.

They do not allow hunting on the dike you drive out on, simply extend that area back to where the phrags start in all directions.

As far as making waders or a dog a requirement, I would be against that. I hunted several years before I got a dog. Justin (Dolling, back in the day)used to love watching me use my stiff ice fishing rod and custom made "retrieving" lure with it's huge salt water sized treble hooks retrieve my ducks.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Green head I did answere that question just go back and read a little bit before you jump down my throat, I'm not going to answere the same question from every post.


Forgive my stupidity, I have read through the last 5 pages a few times now and still can't find where you answered that direct question. :?: :?:


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Pretty sure paddler asked me and I answered him could be wrong though.


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