# Backcountry Hunters & Anglers



## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Please drop by. We aren't after tags. We aren't looking to change guide books. We just want quality habitat and access to that habitat for hunting and fishing. We're non-partisan and non-bull****.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Finn- I could not make it to the event and was wondering how it went and if you have any report. Thanks


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

It was Awesome! there were almost as many people as a few years ago.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Lonetree's sarcasm is appreciated. Few people showed up, and that's okay. I just need to learn how to draw more attention. Working on that. But still, the landscape is changing.

Issues of concern to Utah BHA:

PR Springs tar sands expansion.
Bittercreek energy development.
Wasatch Mountain Accord, now expanded to American Fork canyon.
Rob Bishop's Public Lands Initiative.
Bishop's PLI relevant to the Bittercreek in the Bookcliffs
Utah's federal land's transfer.
Public stream access.

I acknowledge that these issues are foreign to most Utah hunters and anglers. Most consider the Wildlife Board to be the focal point. But the WB can only operate within the parameters of their jurisdiction. Do we want to sacrifice the Bookcliffs? I don't think so, but that's just me. Do we want to do away with federal lands? I adamantly oppose, but that's just me. Do we accept livestock grazing and energy development as the "best uses" of our public lands? I don't, but that's just me.

Never in my life (I'm 61) have I seen a bigger threat to our hunting/fishing heritage than I see right now. My greatest fear is that when it's all said and done and Utah politicians have their way, Utah will be just like Texas. In my mind, Texas sucks.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Finn

No one showed up, because Utah Backcountry Hunters and Anglers does not listen to their constituency. You invited me down to give a presentation that was ignored by leadership. In fact they walked out before it ever got started, which left me an audience of one, not counting you. And he was a "biologist" so most of it was over his head. I have real things to actually accomplish in the world, so note: You won't ever waste my time again.

As for Utah stream access, BS! Here is a quote form Jay Banta(Utah BHA Co-Chair, and BHA National Board of Directors member) on 1-28-2013 regarding stream access:

_"We would have some nominal involvement in keeping public access to the stream flow in the form of boating through I think. But making the stream beds public lands, contrary to anything other than the very short period they were deemed so by the legislature is a pretty collateral issue for BHA. I would be interested to know how many western states have a law such as is being sought. I suspect as many or more than half may have laws similar to what Utah's law is today. Growing up in California, the law always was that one could float through private property as the waters were property of the state but one could not wade or pull up on shore."

_This was the moment that caused me to vacate my co-chair position that you now hold. And until just a few months ago, I was still giving more to BHA than anyone in their Utah leadership could ever dream to. Not anymore. You guys might have good intentions, but you are so wrong on so many levels its not funny. When 2 of 3 Co-Chairs are not even from Utah, and they continually piss in the face of their Utah membership, is it any wonder that no one shows up for the events? I've been to BHA gatherings in other states, it is not like it is here in Utah. You guys can keep blaming it on Utahans all you want, that's not the problem. The Utah leadership, or lack thereof is the problem.

The only reason Utah BHA adopted stream access, is becasue I threatened to treat you guys as an insurgent org for not getting on the right side of things. I won't even go into some of the backdoor maneuvering that went on concerning me after that. Believe me, it did not do Utah BHA any favors.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Ouch^^^


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Truth hurts, so there's no "ouch" there, Mcfly.

Call 911, Josh. You just shot yourself in the foot. Again.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Very interesting posts to say the least


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Strange, I still have all my toes, and there is no blood. Illusions? Again! Watch out for the barbwire.

I never dial 911 :neutral:


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I joined BHA about 6 months ago, I get a few emails here and there and receive their magazine. Other than that I'm not sure exactly what they have going on, especially in this state. If you want people to show up to meetings for BHA, you need to advertise, or get your name out by showing up to other meetings and letting it be known you exhist. I'll bet 90% of the hunting community in Utah doesn't know what BHA is, and it's because of lack of activity within the state. SFW might have a failing model for the average Hunter but they are known, and they are good at shoving it down our throats and showing up on agendas they have a cause in.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

That being said I like BHA as an organization and am glad to have them and you guys functioning in this state. I'm not as upset with you as Lonetree and am not sure exactly what's happened within the Utah cheaper of things, but I hope you guys can do some good things and be a good voice for the state into the future. I don't know exactly what has brought Lonetree to such despair over you but if you're getting 0 attendance chances are as a chapter there's better work to be done.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> That being said I like BHA as an organization and am glad to have them and you guys functioning in this state. I'm not as upset with you as Lonetree and am not sure exactly what's happened within the Utah cheaper of things, but I hope you guys can do some good things and be a good voice for the state into the future. I don't know exactly what has brought Lonetree to such despair over you but if you're getting 0 attendance chances are as a chapter there's better work to be done.


It wasn't 0 attendance, I was there, but then again I'm not a member, and there was one other guy besides the actual leadership, so not 0.

Despair? Did you read the quote about stream access? That was just one of many issues, but the straw that broke the camels back for me. For context, that quote came in response to some of us discussing what the Utah Stream Access Coalition was attempting to do in their opposition of HB68 back in the 2013 legislative session. Here is some history that led up to that: http://utahstreamaccess.org/usac-wp/timeline/
Here is more on how things have played out legally: http://utahstreamaccess.org/usac-wp/public-waters-case/

Needless to say Utah BHA leadership was WRONG, and did not even understand the issue at hand, even though they claim to be about access and Public Trust. They did not support stream access until I protested to BHA national and left Utah BHA. Every issue I ever worked on was like that. They claim to be against tar sands, but don't ever read EISs, they claim to be for public trust but have never read the Utah Constitution.

At a national level, yeah I love BHA and what they stand for, which is why we supported them for as long as we did. But what good does that do me here in Utah? Land Tawney certainly could not answer that question for me, which is why we pulled our sponsorship of BHA. If you have $25 a year to spend on Utah wildlife, access, hunting, and fishing, there are far better places to spend it than BHA.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Having Land send me an email is not going to help your situation.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback and support, 1-I. A lot's happened since LT's very short and melodramatic tenure with BHA 2 years ago.

You can read about BHA and stream access in the next Backcountry journal which should show up in your mailbox any day now. Fact is, USAC has Utah BHA's support and both orgs are currently looking at what "support" specifically means.

Most certainly, that support will include getting the word out. To that end, I'm figuring out batch email software and the tricks of online publishing so that our chapter can produce a quarterly online newsletter. First edition will be out before the hunts. Non-members will also be able to subscribe as soon as I figure out the easiest way for them to do that. After all, the issues of quality habitat and public access are important to all of us. Sure, I want to increase our membership. But it's far more important that folks are aware of the shenanigans taking place. For just one example, too few are aware of what's taking place on the Bookcliffs right now and proposals for the future of one of the most prized units in the state.

Utah BHA is small and the number of members with the time and desire to take leadership positions is tiny (that's how come I got this job). But like the rest of our national organization, I think we punch above our weight class. We do that by collaborating with other organizations.

But there's also an advantage to being small. For some orgs, separating partisan politics from the best interests of hunters, fishermen and wildlife isn't an option. For example, I know for a fact that at least 2 of the larger state orgs cannot take a position on the transfer of federal lands issue because whichever way they go, it will cost them members. We don't need to worry about that because we don't have members to lose. -_O-


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Finn

Just use the @utahbackcountryhunters.org email data base, and then publish the newsletters in password protected HTML format at www.utahbackcountryhunters.org. Its paperless, cheap and effective. Oh yeah, no one ever followed through with that after I purchased and built it.

I have money that says I put more members on the Utah books in my short tenure, than anyone has in Utah since I left. I know we weren't looking at hiring a contractor to increase membership, we beat the pavement, and engaged people. I signed up multiple members at events that weren't even from Utah. Back then I was running a business(more than 40 hours a week) I had two small children, and my wife worked. But you mean to tell me that with a retired guy, a half retired guy(Finn), and another one with no kids you guys can't do it?

I'm glad to hear you support USAC, did I ever tell you the story of how that came to be? Or about the other people that have left UBHA becasue of these kinds of things?

Let me translate for everyone: "We don't need you!" We are a small elite club, that does not pay our own way.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Do I feel a UFC coming on at next years rendezvous? Might be a huge fund raiser.....you know to fight habitat loss and stuff. Put LT in a dunk tank and charge $5.00 a ball to combat herbicide use. Sounds like you guys just need an event planner. ------SS


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Now that right there was funny, I don't care who you are


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Dunk tank: You can't get me wet, or feed me after midnight, so we are going to have to rethink that. In all seriousness, for wildlife, hunting, and REAL scientific conservation, I would probably do it. I mean I showed up at the Utah BHA rendezvous, and got nothing for being dunked.

Better idea, we could put barbwire in the tank, and call it a drunk tank.

UFC: Quote from Finn: "If I see you again, you can expect to be spittin’ teeth. Gutless, 2-faced little *****" Of course the email was titled in Spanish, and ended in Italian, so who knows what he was getting at. Might have been the pain from staggering into the river full of barbwire talking, or maybe it was all the moonshine. Or I guess it could be both, seeing as how one led to the other. One of those cascading events maybe. 

All I know is that Finn, acting on behalf of Utah BHA, invited me down to the rendezvous to give a presentation. This included promises of write ups and other follow through(something he is famous for, my bad, I knew better, at least on that point). A short way into the presentation two of the three BHA leaders walked away, while the other one, who was half way into a quart of moonshine(long before the river) kept interrupting me. Needless to say I packed up and left. 

Maybe that's why no one shows up? 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a drink, or five, the key word being "enjoy".


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Sounds like good times were had by all. -----SS


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

**** SS I thought you were talking about ultimate fighting-oOo-


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Springville Shooter said:


> Sounds like good times were had by all. -----SS


That's what I read: http://utahwildlife.net/forum/21-great-outdoors/121473-diamond-fork-barbed-wire.html

"Spent the weekend in Diamond Fork Canyon and was fishing Saturday evening when I caught a nasty surprise - a tangle of rusted barbed wire tucked under some willows in the water. I was focused on the fish I'd targeted, wasn't paying attention and waded right into it with both legs. Tore me up pretty bad. I was in a lot of pain the following morning and the swelling was serious enough to eventually motivate a trip to the ER for antibiotics and a tetanus shot.

Saw DWR personnel (DHers?) working on some fencing Saturday. But it's national forest, so I don't know who's responsible (irresponsible, actually). Either agency should be more responsible to wildlife than to leave discarded barbed wire laying around.

I'm not blaming anybody for my own stupid mishap, but I noticed when I left the canyon that the DWR guys had left coils of unused wire hanging on a couple fence posts.

Problems with barbed wire and wildlife are well known, so I'm curious why these folks would have such a cavalier attitude."---Finnegan


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Funny, same guy that got after me for pointing my finger at the DWR.......HHHmmmm?

"Focused on the fish"......Yeah right!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Funny, same guy that got after me for pointing my finger at the DWR.......HHHmmmm?
> 
> "Focused on the fish"......Yeah right!


OK, we get it. You gotta bone to pick with Finnegan.

Please, back to the original thread about the UBHA.

Thanks

.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

So, I went to the UBHA rendezvous...........

Finn is UBHA.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> So, I went to the UBHA rendezvous...........
> 
> Finn is UBHA.


Uh huh, I've read all of this thread.

.


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