# Monster poached off the dutton



## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Anyone else see this? http://www.ksl.com/?sid=32171106&nid=148&title=trophy-bull-elk-poached-near-antimony&s_cid=queue-6


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## Caddis-n-Cutts (Sep 28, 2007)

I just noticed this article as well... Getting tired of hearing about this crap! Imagine how much more poaching goes on that we don't hear about, or that the poachers get away with. Makes me sick! -O,-


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

This recent case sounds eerily familiar.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/officers-on-patrol/1367-two-cow-elk-poached-near-otter-creek.html
http://wildlife.utah.gov/officers-on-patrol/1294-poached-bull-elk-in-piute-county.html
http://www.richfieldreaper.com/news/local/article_8719e546-93cb-11e1-bf3c-001a4bcf887a.html

There are some serious issues with elk in Piute County, especially with certain families. This newest "poaching" case of the 6-point on the Center Creek Ranch is mighty close to where those cows were killed in March.

I would wager that the 6-point was not a hunter at all, but rather a cattleman. Just my own gut feeling....

....it's a sad day for sportsmen in rural Utah. Maybe it's time that we fight back? We have an election coming up. How many of you will be voting for the same people that have continued to allow this sort of thing to happen, and will continue to support such actions?


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

When Are these Aholes going to wise up? NEVER ? and if this is the same old dumb A-- that killed the cows. Put his A-- in the slammer toss the key.I hope this Beautiful Breed Bull got a chance to pass on his genes. So some other IDOIT can poach one of his off springs 5 or 6 years down the road. TOTAL FUBAR!!!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

PBH said:


> This recent case sounds eerily familiar.
> 
> http://wildlife.utah.gov/officers-on-patrol/1367-two-cow-elk-poached-near-otter-creek.html
> http://wildlife.utah.gov/officers-on-patrol/1294-poached-bull-elk-in-piute-county.html
> ...


I agree with you completely , I believe it could very well be a cattleman who hates the elk, either way this is illegal actions and it's time to fight back you're right this can't continue to happen in Piute county while we all stand ideally by.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

who's going to enforce anything in Piute County? They don't recognize any law enforcement agencies outside of the Piute County Sheriff dept. 

Who's going to stop them?

Everyone is scared of them -- after all, they have Cliven Bundy to support them now. Heck, Cliven spoke in Stake Conference in Antimony!!


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Seriously? Just how many elk do you think your loosing to these evil cattlemen in Paiute county? 

What pisses me off about you 2 is that if that cattleman and landowner walked on all fours you would ignore there kills. 

So I won't vote out good people in office because of 20 elk.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Seriously? Just how many elk do you think your loosing to these evil cattlemen in Paiute county?
> 
> What pisses me off about you 2 is that if that cattleman and landowner walked on all fours you would ignore there kills.
> 
> So I won't vote out good people in office because of 20 elk.


Get over cougars and coyotes, they're a part of the natural world and aren't doing much if anything to elk. Elk are getting even less affected by predators than deer. Point is these are all being shot and left to waste. 20 elk is 2 0 elk I'll never have a chance at and every cow amounts to more than that . Don't condone illegal bull**** actions of people just because they have a personal problem with the DWR and elk. We don't know who it was but the area has had that reputation. The biggest/only issue is not predators IB get it through your thick head and quit blaming them for everything and excusing all other issues to blame it even more on them.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

PBH said:


> who's going to enforce anything in Piute County? They don't recognize any law enforcement agencies outside of the Piute County Sheriff dept.
> 
> Who's going to stop them?
> 
> Everyone is scared of them -- after all, they have Cliven Bundy to support them now. Heck, Cliven spoke in Stake Conference in Antimony!!


It's not an issue of being scared , what're we going to have an outlast of a few hundred people? It doesn't matter if they recognize other powers what matters is that they are enforced and proved to them they'll be recognizing state and federal officials whether they'd like to or not . I just think no one wants to take a chance at making things worse or causing more of this ****. These cowardly cowboys who shoot elk in the name of personal issues will stop because eventually everyone watching this **** happen here will get sick of it and they'll become the minority who will face consequences for their stupidity. Far more people despise them than support them outside of twindledink county .


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Get over cougars and coyotes, they're a part of the natural world and aren't doing much if anything to elk. Elk are getting even less affected by predators than deer. Point is these are all being shot and left to waste. 20 elk is 2 0 elk I'll never have a chance at and every cow amounts to more than that . Don't condone illegal bull**** actions of people just because they have a personal problem with the DWR and elk. We don't know who it was but the area has had that reputation. The biggest/only issue is not predators IB get it through your thick head and quit blaming them for everything and excusing all other issues to blame it even more on them.


A kill is a kill I agree. That dahb that poaches is doing what they do. Just as a predator does what he does.

I won't quite sighting predation so long as you keep sighting human activity as a problem. You want to close a road cut a tag take more money and throw a person in jail. But completely deny the effects of predation. With friends like you who needs enemies.Sorry I won't let you forget it.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

IB -- are you actually OK with the 20+ elk poached in Piute County(there is no "a" in Piute County) over the last 2 years?

Regardless of anyone's stance on predators, 20 dead elk due to poaching is sad.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> A kill is a kill I agree. That dahb that poaches is doing what they do. Just as a predator does what he does.
> 
> I won't quite sighting predation so long as you keep sighting human activity as a problem. You want to close a road cut a tag take more money and throw a person in jail. But completely deny the effects of predation. With friends like you who needs enemies.Sorry I won't let you forget it.


I will come to terms with you that predators do have a small effect on overall population in some instances, my problem with predator/prey is that the relationship has always existed. In the 1950-60'S do you think there were so many less predators that deer were doing better? Or is it that that relationship has remained the same and other aspects have changed? I too used to believe the predator BS pushed down the throat of sportsmen who haven't done much research and believe those who don't really educate themselves on the subject tell them. There's bigger issues, lonetrees points despite what many think, the deeper and deeper you look the more he makes sense and the more scary of a fix it becomes, so we turn to issues we've been made to believe are easy fixes and waste money on them. Some areas predator management I can see being beneficial, a lot and most instances it isn't, predators follow prey populations, prey populations aren't determined by predator populations. You can only have as many coyotes and cougars as a prey population will allow, you aren't going to end up with vastly more predators than prey because the predators rely on the prey for their populations. Anyway that isn't exactly what this post is about and I don't know that you'll be able to ever change some peoples minds on this, but the fact of the matter is there are deeper problems.

Poaching probably has about as much affect as predators you're right, but predators aren't killing things for no reason and leaving them there to rot out of spite. This has happened a lot in Piute county over the years and some harsh punishments need to be distributed throughout the county to make those good ole boys realize the consequences are far worse than letting an elk live its life and the DWR do there job, not take it in to there own hands. I might kill one more big bull in my lifetime in this state, and you think its okay that 10 in the last couple years have been killed and left to rot in one area? They're pulling this out of mine and everyone else who hunts or puts in for an elk tag each year, I spend a lot of money on tags and hunting in general, I'm not okay with this. No one in Piute county is too scary and if they really think that waging a war with the DWR, Forest Service, and BLM is a smart move, they'll soon find out if they continue to act in an uncivilized manner that the recourse coming there way will not make this anywhere near worth it.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

PBH said:


> IB -- are you actually OK with the 20+ elk poached in Piute County(there is no "a" in Piute County) over the last 2 years?
> 
> Regardless of anyone's stance on predators, 20 dead elk due to poaching is sad.


No I'm not "OK" with poaching of any kind.

But it's not a reason to fire the sheriff. It is what it is theft. So I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life over it. Now in reality the death was either additive or compensatory. I like you believe it's additive. So is predation. We have plenty of policy to take care of poaching. So what about predation? Which in reality has a 1000X bigger effect on 1 eyes chance at a tag then poaching.

Just dealing in reality here.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

You talk to about any biologists out there in Utah. With regards to elk there are really only about two things that drives the population lower. Weather and people. Coyotes and lions do very little to the elk population. Yellowstone is a perfect example of that prior to the wolves moving in. There were tons of coyotes and tons of elk. No different than Utah is right now.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I will come to terms with you that predators do have a small effect on overall population in some instances, my problem with predator/prey is that the relationship has always existed. In the 1950-60'S do you think there were so many less predators that deer were doing better? Or is it that that relationship has remained the same and other aspects have changed? I too used to believe the predator BS pushed down the throat of sportsmen who haven't done much research and believe those who don't really educate themselves on the subject tell them. There's bigger issues, lonetrees points despite what many think, the deeper and deeper you look the more he makes sense and the more scary of a fix it becomes, so we turn to issues we've been made to believe are easy fixes and waste money on them. Some areas predator management I can see being beneficial, a lot and most instances it isn't, predators follow prey populations, prey populations aren't determined by predator populations. You can only have as many coyotes and cougars as a prey population will allow, you aren't going to end up with vastly more predators than prey because the predators rely on the prey for their populations. Anyway that isn't exactly what this post is about and I don't know that you'll be able to ever change some peoples minds on this, but the fact of the matter is there are deeper problems.
> 
> Poaching probably has about as much affect as predators you're right, but predators aren't killing things for no reason and leaving them there to rot out of spite. This has happened a lot in Piute county over the years and some harsh punishments need to be distributed throughout the county to make those good ole boys realize the consequences are far worse than letting an elk live its life and the DWR do there job, not take it in to there own hands. I might kill one more big bull in my lifetime in this state, and you think its okay that 10 in the last couple years have been killed and left to rot in one area? They're pulling this out of mine and everyone else who hunts or puts in for an elk tag each year, I spend a lot of money on tags and hunting in general, I'm not okay with this. No one in Piute county is too scary and if they really think that waging a war with the DWR, Forest Service, and BLM is a smart move, they'll soon find out if they continue to act in an uncivilized manner that the recourse coming there way will not make this anywhere near worth it.


Yes 1080 and policy kept predators way down. During the deer boom of the 40 50 60 ect. You must understand one detail. It not matter how many predator. It matter how many predator per prey. So long as prey is not at or over carrying capacity. And nothing is pointing to deer being at capacity.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> No I'm not "OK" with poaching of any kind.
> 
> But it's not a reason to fire the sheriff. It is what it is theft. So I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life over it. Now in reality the death was either additive or compensatory. I like you believe it's additive. So is predation. We have plenty of policy to take care of poaching. So what about predation? Which in reality has a 1000X bigger effect on 1 eyes chance at a tag then poaching.
> 
> Just dealing in reality here.


It's not reality, it's your uneducated opinion of what's wrong, especially on elk .


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

A little education here 1eye predators effect elk in Utah also.

Maybe if KSL posted a predator kill once a week you would believe it was happening.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> A little education here 1eye predators effect elk in Utah also.
> 
> Maybe if KSL posted a predator kill once a week you would believe it was happening.


I'm done with the predator debate, if you believe that it's your choice . I would just ask that you read up on as much information and studies as you can to adjust your views to the other problems as well. Your passionate, but pouring money into predators as far as big game are concerned is a waste of resources most times. Now if you want rabbits to overrun the sage brush then we are headed in the right direction.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Oh man that would be fun. Old-timers had way too much of that.










-DallanC


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Cliven Bundy is the king asshat winner of the entire internet and monkey's butts everywhere. So is that other rancher idiot that likes to shoot elk and then treat the dwr like they did something wrong. I won't mention Gary Allen's name but if I were to, he's the rancher I'd place the blame firmly upon for the animals being killed and left over by Antimony. Problem there, he's related to the sheriff. Now, Iron Bear and other cattlemen lovers, you wanna hang your hat next to those two jackwagons? If so, I will have lost all respect for you.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Were all related in Paiute county. 

Why is this only the sheriffs issue? Call Seth up he has jurisdiction. I'll give you his cell number.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Related or inbred?


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

It was a bit of a joke.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Don't confuse me for a cattleman lover or a poaching supporter. Read my posts over the last 7yrs.


I don't like poachers.
I don't like shoplifters either. But I'm not calling for cruel and unusual punishment for it either. It think the legislator has is right on the punishment for it. I believe your innocent until proven guilty. I happen to think that when a cougar kills a buck it's a waste also. And I know it happens at 1000 times the rate of a poaching. So if we are not to address predation why freak out about poaching. I don't believe humans are the root of all evil. I know we the ability to effect wildlife. It's not all up to the weather. 

I guess I just like people. I think they are the answer to the problem. I hate road closures LE and restricted access. I say If me driving down the road or looking for sheds scares deer and makes them skinny and die. I ask then what is the 2000 cougar in Utah doing to there peace and tranquility. So if I'm going to give up first I want to find a solution to prevent my loss first. 

1eye, I'll work you over in the predation debate. You know dick on the subject. Your so ignorant on the matter you don't even know the basis of why a predation matter or not or if it does. You could be told and believe anything. All you got are talking points. Habitat work helps. We need money. Pray for good weather. Blah blah. Go educate yourself on capacity and then let's have the argument about that. If you have any clue what that even means.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

IB,

If you had seen what I did from 1989 to 2010 with mountain lion numbers in Utah-----
Well,,,,, You'd have a WHOLE diffrent out look on the lion situation we have today!!!!!!

So many LESS cats it's not even funny!

Dude, you ain't got a clue. JMHO.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Gentelmen:RULES:LETS ALL TAKE A DEEP BREATH! If need be take it to the P.M.s


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm going to toss you a bone, IB. Predators, your favorite to mention, need to be controlled because they simply hunt out of instinct and don't care about laws or ungulate management. They'll eat themselves out of prey if allowed to and historically, they have. 

The reason poaching is so important is that we, as humans don't hunt out of instinct or the need to survive. Someone tries to tell me they rely on the meat from a mule deer to sustain their family needs throat punched for being ridiculously stupid. Poachers, I assume that don't take the antlers or meat are either sick bastards getting off killing something that can't kill them back, or they are making a political point. Human's can reason (most of us) and therefore, the penalties for poaching must apply to that reasoning even on the most basic level. 

I personally hate poaching and shoplifters equally, because the direct result of their actions on those that follow the law equates to lost opportunity and $$$$$$$. So far, although change is coming, a cougar eating a deer every week isn't having a direct impact on you or I being able to do what we love. I plan on spending my cougar points in the future and I'm sure you have great advice on how to be successful. I want to be successful because a full mount on a big tom is the goal and I know taking a big lion of either sex preserves at least 54 mule over the next 12 months until another cat takes its place. Putting a poacher out of business, saves brain cells having to argue that a human knows better than a cat.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> IB,
> 
> If you had seen what I did from 1989 to 2010 with mountain lion numbers in Utah-----
> Well,,,,, You'd have a WHOLE diffrent out look on the lion situation we have today!!!!!!
> ...


Geez goofy I know you understand you need deer to have cougar. So sure when we had a million deer and then implemented LE cougar hunting. We had probably as many as 5000 cats at one time. I got a clue.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Don't confuse me for a cattleman lover or a poaching supporter. Read my posts over the last 7yrs.
> 
> I don't like poachers.
> I don't like shoplifters either. But I'm not calling for cruel and unusual punishment for it either. It think the legislator has is right on the punishment for it. I believe your innocent until proven guilty. I happen to think that when a cougar kills a buck it's a waste also. And I know it happens at 1000 times the rate of a poaching. So if we are not to address predation why freak out about poaching. I don't believe humans are the root of all evil. I know we the ability to effect wildlife. It's not all up to the weather.
> ...


By saying people are the solution not the problem is another ridiculous argument. Fragmenting, destroying, and degrading habitat has no effect on mule deer or wildlife populations does it? Yeah I think youre the one who doesn't know dick. If you don't believe humans have had the largest negative affect on mule deer you're crazy. Humans affect on mule deer will become even more negative the more years that go by. Utah's population is expected to double in the next 30 years, if wildlife and wild places don't start getting preserved (the habitat your dismissing) do you honestly think it will matter how many cougars or coyotes there are when there are no deer left because of human encroachment throughout the state. Weather and habitat are the most important things there are, especially habitat, without habitat you'll never have any wildlife so put your effort towards something that truly matters. Poachers are thieves and they're stealing from both of us so don't condone them no matter who they are a disgruntled cattleman or what have you. Educate yourself your the ignorant one on the whole subject, do more research than just predators and it will open your eyes.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Human encroachment kills deer. Like in bountiful and traverse mtn?

Like in Pennsylvania?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Human encroachment kills deer. Like in bountiful and traverse mtn?
> 
> Like in Pennsylvania?


You just don't get it, and that's all there is to it. Do some research, look at what's happened. Look at what the deer truly require to survive, and then come back with a legitimate argument.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Actually I've already won there 1eye. I'm getting what I've been calling for for all these yrs.

Predator control in conjunction to deer management and hunter management. Read over the latest deer management plan.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> Actually I've already won there 1eye. I'm getting what I've been calling for for all these yrs.
> 
> Predator control in conjunction to deer management and hunter management. Read over the latest deer management plan.


Yep, the uneducated majority are wasting our money on temporary "fixes" and we are losing ground because we aren't spending money where ti should be. You should be proud. The future of wildlife is being wasted right now.


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## osageorange (Nov 20, 2010)

I have no love for a few of ranchers in Piute County. They've left a legacy, well before this bull was found dead. There has been ample reason to dislike or mistrust, from years past. 

However, just because they have fought against elk populations and behaved poorly does not necessarily mean they are guilty on this bull. Ya, I know, if it walks like a duck.......

What if this bull was shot by a deer hunter, (accidently or intentional) on the Griffen Top, 5 miles from the Center Creek Ranch. Wounded, the elk made it's way to water on the ranch, over the next 5 days. Then succumbed to it's wounds on the ranch next to the water, shown in the picture.

I'm all for hanging the guilty party but don't you think you need to be a little more careful pointed an accessing figure without a little more info?

Remember, I'm the one that warned you that the 2 cows killed in Black Canyon has an omen of a lot more trouble with elk populations in Utah. This is not necessarily related.

This poach has too many possibilities to be another party's doings. Is there any concern about hanging the wrong guy, because he's been guilty of bad behavior in the past?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

osageorange said:


> I have no love for a few of ranchers in Piute County. They've left a legacy, well before this bull was found dead. There has been ample reason to dislike or mistrust, from years past.
> 
> However, just because they have fought against elk populations and behaved poorly does not necessarily mean they are guilty on this bull. Ya, I know, if it walks like a duck.......
> 
> ...


Innocent until proven guilty, but that dosent mean guilty parties don't walk away a lot . In this situation law enforcement will do what it can, but it will be the public that puts the most pressure on them if it continues.


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## osageorange (Nov 20, 2010)

Ya, the whole fricking world is gone to he11 in a hand basket......let's just jump off the bridge.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

osageorange said:


> Ya, the whole fricking world is gone to he11 in a hand basket......let's just jump off the bridge.


And I'm not convicting some cattleman of this, but this area has sure seen a lot of elk poachings, and with it's reputation, there's a direction you could most likely look. If I was a betting man though, that's where I'd place my bet for at least some of these un solved cases.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

1-I, I am all for conservation and the greater good of wildlife but you really seam to be stepping over the edge of humanity at times. The entire world isn't going to hell like many would like everybody to believe. Not everybody is out there raping Mother Earth everyday. There is in fact a lot of good going on.

Why just the other day I saw a person picking up some trash for no other reason than the fact that it needed done. On other fronts we have people that are doing their best to protect and preserve. If it were not the case, conservation would have disappeared long ago and "wildlife" would basically not exist in it's current form.

I have yet to see ANYBODY come on here and condone wanton waste and destruction of wildlife. This includes Iron Bear.

You may serve yourself well to accept the fact that good is greater than evil on pretty much every front in life. It makes life one hell of a lot more enjoyable to live. The average person doesn't wake up everyday looking to fail or **** something up. If it were not the case we would not be here nor would the deer and antelope.

Rather than thinking about how you can stir some **** up tomorrow when you wake, how about you go take out the trash and clean your own yard and do what you can do? Fix your fuel burning truck and then thank God that you aren't the one running things in this state.

Go look for a freaking pheasant, shoot the **** thing and then wonder how in hell it got there. Cook it, eat it and repeat. Once it passes take a deep breath. You might come to the realization that your **** does in fact stink.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> 1-I, I am all for conservation and the greater good of wildlife but you really seam to be stepping over the edge of humanity at times. The entire world isn't going to hell like many would like everybody to believe. Not everybody is out there raping Mother Earth everyday. There is in fact a lot of good going on.
> 
> Why just the other day I saw a person picking up some trash for no other reason than the fact that it needed done. On other fronts we have people that are doing their best to protect and preserve. If it were not the case, conservation would have disappeared long ago and "wildlife" would basically not exist in it's current form.
> 
> ...


The world isn't entirely bad and it hadn't gone to hell. I'm going to do precisely that as I write this. But the issues do remain that we are destroying more and more habitat every day which is the single biggest isis to our wildlife, without habitat no other problems matter. As a nation we continually destroy and develop wild lands and the crop lands that nourish and feed our nation while population continues to grow . No species has grown beyond it's carrying capacity and not experienced a major die off. I worry that it will be a worse world in the future if those who don't see the value in a jay field or a pasture continue to destroy them. It's not where we are that's bad it's where we are headed. The world our children and grandchildren live in will be the world that has been screwed up so badly.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Yep, the uneducated majority are wasting our money on temporary "fixes" and we are losing ground because we aren't spending money where ti should be. You should be proud. The future of wildlife is being wasted right now.


If your and mentalities like yours think we are headed in the wrong direction. I'll take that as a strong indicator that we are headed in the right direction.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Iron Bear said:


> Actually I've already won there 1eye. I'm getting what I've been calling for for all these yrs.
> 
> Predator control in conjunction to deer management and hunter management. Read over the latest deer management plan.


I believe predator control is a great thing! The packet does talk in length about habitat and how it is a limiting factor in a lot of areas though. It also states predator management really only works best certain times of the year and in areas with low populations!


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

^^^ We went almost 4 decades without a plan for predators in terms of deer. The new plan ties predation to the unit deer population objective. 

I agree habitat is the ultimate limiting factor. And is absolutely the reason why we can't have a million deer again. But is not the limiting factor in getting to 425K.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> ^^^ We went almost 4 decades without a plan for predators in terms of deer. The new plan ties predation to the unit deer population objective.
> 
> I agree habitat is the ultimate limiting factor. And is absolutely the reason why we can't have a million deer again. But is not the limiting factor in getting to 425K.


IB we do agree I think on many things . I won't say predators in some situations /areas can't be detrimental to overall deer populations although personally I don't think it's the main problem. Here we are talking about elk though and I don't believe predators are harming our elk population much. In fact I think our elk population could grow itself into starvation if we let it. I think it's a little ridiculous the amount of anterless tags being given in Utah but that's just another issue entirely.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Iron Bear said:


> ^^^ We went almost 4 decades without a plan for predators in terms of deer. The new plan ties predation to the unit deer population objective.
> 
> I agree habitat is the ultimate limiting factor. And is absolutely the reason why we can't have a million deer again. But is not the limiting factor in getting to 425K.


People do realize the coyote program isn't new right?


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Can't we all just get Along.. Once Your In With The Piute County Good Ol Boys. And ya think the Elk are eating your cows outa House and Home. Hell just go out and knock down 20 or 50..Then rush over to you cowboy buddys house and laugh bout it. Cause ain't squat going to be done bout it..


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## osageorange (Nov 20, 2010)

For he11 sake, boys, what's wrong with 1eye pouring his energy and everyone that agrees with him into improving habitat and IB and everyone that agrees with him pouring their energy into predator reduction? Why in the holy he11 does one of you have to be wrong for the other to be right?

Anybody with half a brain knows big game needs aggressive management of both legs of the stool. Put half as much energy into improving habitat and reducing predation as you do arguing and everybody wins.

Pick your problem of interest and get to work and let the other guy do the same, for once in the last five fricking years. You sound like a batch of snotty mothers in a 8 year old's beauty pageant.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Iron Bear said:


> ^^^ We went almost 4 decades without a plan for predators in terms of deer. The new plan ties predation to the unit deer population objective.
> 
> I agree habitat is the ultimate limiting factor. And is absolutely the reason why we can't have a million deer again. But is not the limiting factor in getting to 425K.


Did I miss something? The way I understood it is they are keeping predator control the same? As in statewide not unit wise.Even though it kinda contradicted what the studies found on predator control. I haven't quite finished the packet so maybe I haven't read it yet .


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

klbzdad said:


> The reason poaching is so important is that we, as humans don't hunt out of instinct or the need to survive. Someone tries to tell me they rely on the meat from a mule deer to sustain their family needs throat punched for being ridiculously stupid. Poachers, I assume that don't take the antlers or meat are either sick bastards getting off killing something that can't kill them back, or they are making a political point. Human's can reason (most of us) and therefore, the penalties for poaching must apply to that reasoning even on the most basic level.


Well put. Let me use an analogy. Suppose a crazed gunman shoots somebody in the head, and kills him. We'd call that guy a terrorist, or insane, or both, and we'd have an uproar of anger, as well as empathy for the victim and his family. Suppose further that every year 10.000 people are killed in car accidents.

Iron Bear's argument is to say "why should I care about that one death more than about any of those 10.000"?

Well, because.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I thought this thread that I started was about a poached elk?


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## FSHCHSR (Aug 30, 2008)

> I thought this thread that I started was about a poached elk


nope predators and habitat


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

The thread was "monster poached on the dutton" there is no way it could have been about poaching or elk!


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

brendo said:


> The thread was "monster poached on the dutton" there is no way it could have been about poaching or elk!


My bad hopefully this will get us back on topic:


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

FSHCHSR said:


> nope predators and habitat


I thought this was a bigfoot sighting?

Which thread am I in again?


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

This last illegal kill was actually on the Boulder Unit and in Garfield Co. I agree with PBH on this BS.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> This last illegal kill was actually on the Boulder Unit and in Garfield Co. I agree with PBH on this BS.


That Marty should loose his job in Paiute county? Or that the Garfield co sheriff should loose his job?

Interesting logic.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

brendo said:


> Did I miss something? The way I understood it is they are keeping predator control the same? As in statewide not unit wise.Even though it kinda contradicted what the studies found on predator control. I haven't quite finished the packet so maybe I haven't read it yet .


simplified now when a unit is under objective and failing to increase. before and when tag reductions are considers predator reduction can and will likely be implemented. On a unit basis. No more blind management.

Before, a predator reduction was only used for "emergencies" which rarely if ever were implemented for the sake of deer. And never before implemented for deer hunters.

And one eye can sleep easy knowing it won't take a dime from habitat.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> That Marty should loose his job in Paiute county? Or that the Garfield co sheriff should loose his job?
> 
> Interesting logic.


Remind me where I said that?

What I said, in a nutshell, is I don't understand why local law enforcement doesn't get involved in this stuff. I don't understand why our rural counties want to get rid of any law enforcement outside of there own agencies. I didn't ask for Marty's head. But, I can certainly see where you might add up the numbers and come to that conclusion yourself. I might even have to agree with you. But we'll have to allow the voting public of Piute County (there is no "a" in Piute County) make that decision.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

They spoke.


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