# LE Turkey Permits



## SureShot (Oct 2, 2007)

The application period for LE turkey starts today. I'm noticing that the number of permits being offered this year is down from last year and last year was down from the year before. At the same time, the DWR is reporting that the turkey population in Utah is doing very well.

Does anybody know why the LE permits are going down? Are they just slowly phasing them out and transitioning to strictly over the counter (which would be really cool)?


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

LE Turkey kind of sucks to be honest. It's right before the roads open and the birds are often not very active up until the last couple of days. If I were to guess as to their motives though, with my own observations as a contributing factor in this opinion, the number of gobblers to hens and jakes may be down. You see entire flocks of hens all over the place with no gobblers or jakes at all. Genetic diversity is a big deal with big consequences. Guys really ought to kill more hens in the fall, one bonus for killing a big hen is that their wingbones make the best turkey calls.


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## Liatry (Nov 10, 2019)

Jedidiah said:


> LE Turkey kind of sucks to be honest. It's right before the roads open and the birds are often not very active up until the last couple of days. If I were to guess as to their motives though, with my own observations as a contributing factor in this opinion, the number of gobblers to hens and jakes may be down. You see entire flocks of hens all over the place with no gobblers or jakes at all. Genetic diversity is a big deal with big consequences. Guys really ought to kill more hens in the fall, one bonus for killing a big hen is that their wingbones make the best turkey calls.


+1


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

When either I or one of my hunting partners have had a LE turkey tag we have had no problems finding active strutting tom's even with the road closures. You have to get out of your vehicles and do some hiking to find them and once you know what they are doing and going it isn't that hard.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Sure, I'll agree. But where at exactly? I'll come back and edit my post in May when I've seen this for myself. I mean....just for science.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Turkey areas are like good fishing holes and big buck and elk country. 

They are held tight to the breast. But they are out there.

I'll say this, follow the snow line and green grass


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'll also say that if you can see where you are hiking without a headlamp or flashlight then you are a hour too late.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

But I mean....come on, it's for science! Alright fine, I've found one spot with really amazing birds but it is at least a 3 mile hike in when the roads are closed during the LE hunt. That would probably be the standard for finding large birds in the LE. Maybe it just seems like way more work than normal because you usually have your winter fat on when you're doing it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It's a good way to get rid of that fat. 

A couple of years ago I hiked in 5 miles for a chance at a bird in Colorado. It was far enough in that we camped about a mile from where we knew that we would find the birds and went after the birds the next morning.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> I'll also say that if you can see where you are hiking without a headlamp or flashlight then you are a hour too late.


+1. I've actually gone around as early as 3AM with an owl locator call, and setup as early as 4 or 4:30, and waited for graylight at 5:20

I'll add that when it's cold, look to cottonwoods in the low elevations. Some birds stay in the low elevations. Some go to higher elevations, say around mid may. In either case, look for the tallest tree's in an area where they can glide down. They don't like to fly, they like to glide. Bump them off their roost though, and they'll fly in the dark to get away from you. They also like fresh running water. In addition, they can hear extraordinarily well. Boot's is the preferred mode of transportation for turkey hunting anyway, so the road closures means little in my book. I've walked as far as 5 miles from a closed gate to a roost area, well before graylight.

Im debating doing the LE hunt this year. My trouble is, my wife's starting to express an interest, and i think it's going to be more work then what she's ready for.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Fires have destroyed Turkey habitat in some areas is what I'm thinking is the decline in tags.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> Fires have destroyed Turkey habitat in some areas is what I'm thinking is the decline in tags.


I can attest to the loss of habitat due to fire. A spot I hunted for a couple years went up in smoke last year.


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## SureShot (Oct 2, 2007)

Hmmm...I killed my turkey in one of the fresh burns last year (meaning the fire was in the fall and I hunted it the next spring).

My issue is that with fewer tags, there’s going to be more point creep (of course, there’s always the chance to get a random tag). Since the general hunt is already pretty good quality, I’m wondering if I should just drop out of the point game...especially if they’re phasing it out anyway.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I have 5 LE points- Anyone want to take me out? I suck at Turkeys lol.


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## DAdams23 (Sep 28, 2018)

I’ve had success the last two years on the OTC hunt. But I got the email telling me to put in for LE and I was surprised to see that I had 2 points. These must have been during high school because I don’t remember ever putting in for them. Should I stick to the OTC or put in? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

SureShot said:


> Hmmm...I killed my turkey in one of the fresh burns last year (meaning the fire was in the fall and I hunted it the next spring).


Yeah I've hunted them in a burn too. Near Brianshead, SE of Panguitch. In fact, i've got a turkey vest i'm trying to sell that has char on the backside of it from me leaning up against a burnt tree. The area I was speaking of in my last post however, is pretty well moonscapped. The fire was REALLY intense there, there was a lot of dead fall and fuel loading. Looks like an A bomb went off there.



> Should I stick to the OTC or put in?


I haven't been hunting turkeys that long. Maybe 3 or 4 years now, but what I've learned about general season is this:

- Your racing time to fill your tag, and you've got to hit the ground running. The later in the season, the harder it becomes. It's never impossible, it just gets harder is all. I've hunted them until the last weekend of may and got worked over. (EDIT: It's not the calender your racing against, it's the spring strut cycle. The birds will be hot right before May begins, by the middle to end of may, they ain't so hot anymore, they'll still gobble, but their just aren't as hot, and their henned up, that makes it harder)

- Opening weekend, like any other hunting season, is your best time. Clear your calender.

- After about the first week of may, It is my guess that all the tom's are henned up. They may already be henned up before may even begins. ( Which may not be a problem during the LE hunt.....)

- After about the 2nd week in may, depending on the weather, the birds your chasing may go up in altitude. I've hunted them in the first and second week in may in one area low in altitude, only to come back during the 3rd week and find NOTHING. Took me all weekend to find them, and they had all gone up the mountain to new roosts. I've seen this cycle repeat in two spring hunting seasons.

- A good storm front will drop them in altitude pretty quick. I've also seen them drop in altitude overnight during a good storm. I know this because I set up near their roost area the morning after a storm, only to find nothing, and kicked up a bird on my way back down the mountain in a transition area between their low land roost, and their mountain roost.

- They respond to human pressure, and weather, very quickly.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Yeah they're often "henned up" as you say in the regular season. My strategy in the general is often to find a draw with birds and then call hens....I've been busted stalking and then set up the blind and hen called to try to get them to reassemble and been moderately successful as the hens come back with a gobbler or two with them. Thanks for the pointers everyone.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

"Hunting the hen" is definitely a good tactic. The Tom will come in tow. I can't say I've tried it yet, but will probably give it a go if I hunt General this year. I was thinking about it, and I can't recall a specific time I've ever heard a hen during the spring hunt except when I accidently bumped into a roost. Then it was just a bunch of putting, as they will do when alarmed. Hen's in general are really quiet I think. 



Last year hunting a burn area, all i ever heard was the tom. It was pretty cool, as his gobble was echoing across the valley. In the morning mist in gray light - it was REALLY cool. Got my blood going about as much as hearing an Elk bugle. Caught up with him in the evening, only to discover a bunch of hens that I didn't even know were there. They never made a sound, at least, nothing you could hear unless you were right next to them.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I agree with what Critter said earlier in the thread 100%.

"Follow the snow line and the green grass." 

I have always done that. Has worked very well. 
As for the early morning thing......I have done better with the evening hunts. 
I've been hunting turkeys since '86, and I've killed more late in the day than early. 

As for the LE hunt, I like it when I can get it. Down here we have some areas we can hunt the early as the snow has pretty much melted down lower.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't even put in for the LE tags because I don't want to spend the extra $10 a year and be limited to half the season as the general. We never have had any issue killing turkeys on the general hunt.

That being said,the LE hunt timing coincides most with when the big toms seem to be fired up and doing their thing. I think it offers a better or at least equal opportunity to call a bird in.


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## Papa Moses (Sep 27, 2018)

This year will be my 9th point for LE. I Just Hunt the GS. But as mentioned they can be henned up. Last season after 9 days in a row of hunting the only Tom in the area he was with so many hens I knew he wouldn’t budge. On the last hour of my hunt I grabbed a fan and crept about 100 yards and popped him at 55 yards dead as tar. I have had the most fun on mornings in the LE the birds are gobbling and there seems to be less people too. Also this past season my brother had the LE. On the opener we got on the hill at gray light. Hit the owl call. Went about 40 yards and set up. Then came strutting in two pretty boys and he dropped one. 

Easier for sure on the LE but more of a challenge for the GS. Pick your poison I’d say.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The nice thing about Utah is that you can put in for a LE permit even if it cost you $10 for the application and then if you don't draw you can purchase a general tag.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Wait, I've never had to go more than 2 points for an LE tag for turkey. Are you guys actually applying for the tag, or just bonus points?


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## Papa Moses (Sep 27, 2018)

Jedidiah said:


> Wait, I've never had to go more than 2 points for an LE tag for turkey. Are you guys actually applying for the tag, or just bonus points?


I Just buy bonus points


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

I might be wrong but I don't think you need more than one point in the bank to get a tag (so you'd be doing 2 points with your application.) Other guys might be able to tell us...draw odds seem to back up my experience though.

Hens definitely yelp a good deal, it's all you hear in the fall. That tactic I was talking about with bumping the birds, setting up, and then yelping works because they are trying to meet back up. Ghost Blind ftw, btw. You walk in with your Ghost Blind on your back, find or bump birds, set up the blind and decoys, let out a couple yelp cycles and see if the hens want to talk. If you do the blind right it can look like you have double the amount of decoys.

Edit: Sorry, I had to add a disclaimer. If you're going to hunt on public land it's probably not safe to set up decoys so your ghost blind reflects them, I don't do it. The thing disappears completely in the right conditions.


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## SureShot (Oct 2, 2007)

Last year, it took 4 points to get into the bonus pool for the Central region (unless you were sharing points) and only half those people drew.

Similarly, it took 2 points in the Northeastern region, 2 points in the Northern region, 2 points in the Southeastern region and 1 point in the Southern region.

With fewer tags available this year, those numbers are likely to jump--especially in the Central region.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

We've called in and killed toms after they walk across 4' snow drifts across logging roads. Not uncommon sometimes to bust through 2' of snow in places chasing 'thunder chickens'...


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

This spring will be my 9th year hunting turkeys and and will be my 8th consecutive Tom if I kill one.. I absolutely LOVE turkey hunting. Something about sitting in silence in the dark and hearing that gobbler fire off just before the song birds start to chirp.. I’ll hunt either LE or GS. I will say this, out of 9 years target turkeys the hottest iv ever seen it was on an LE hunt. With that said, iv had it pretty hot on the GS hunt too, but the hottest was LE.... in my experience...


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Jedidiah said:


> Wait, I've never had to go more than 2 points for an LE tag for turkey. Are you guys actually applying for the tag, or just bonus points?


Another year, another bonus point. I'd have put in this year, only this year the wife and 6 year old daughter will be coming along after the early morning hunt. I better start looking for a blind to put them in. This year is going to be a big adjustment for me.

This is just my opinion, for as right or as wrong as I may be, but the thing I hate about banking points is after awhile, after a certain point, your almost guaranteed a tag. Every year you don't draw, your investing more points into a tag that is already in your pocket instead of putting down points for the next tag.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

RandomElk16 said:


> I have 5 LE points- Anyone want to take me out? I suck at Turkeys lol.


Hey Random! I have 3 points and suck at turkeys too. I'm happy to take you out and we can suck at turkeys together!! Maybe we can figure it out or maybe one of the many turkey experts on here can take both of us!! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

3arabians said:


> Hey Random! I have 3 points and suck at turkeys too. I'm happy to take you out and we can suck at turkeys together!! Maybe we can figure it out or maybe one of the many turkey experts on here can take both of us!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both of you just need to pick up a fall turkey tag and we can go out and not suck and shoot a couple birds....


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Kwalk3 said:


> Both of you just need to pick up a fall turkey tag and we can go out and not suck and shoot a couple birds....


Funny you say that cuz I have a fall tag right now. Stupid turkeys everywhere like jack rabbits during the deer hunt actually messing up my hunt at times they were so numerous. Soon as my buck hits the dirt I be like "time to kill a turkey, this will be fun" Not an f-n turkey in sight!

My late cow hunt is the priority now but as soon as that's over Kwalk3 I'll let ya know!!


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Where's your area, if I may ask? I'm not sure if you missed that post about the North region but most of the Wasatch mountains are open and legal on that tag.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

3arabians said:


> Funny you say that cuz I have a fall tag right now. *Stupid turkeys everywhere like jack rabbits during the deer hunt actually messing up my hunt at times they were so numerous. Soon as my buck hits the dirt I be like "time to kill a turkey, this will be fun" Not an f-n turkey in sight! *
> 
> My late cow hunt is the priority now but as soon as that's over Kwalk3 I'll let ya know!!


My luck is such that, when I'm looking for Turkey's, I find deer. When I'm looking for Deer, I find Elk. When I'm looking for Elk, I usually find nothing at all.

I am certainly no expert at turkey hunting. When I think I've finally got those dang birds figured out, they prove me wrong. Should have seen me last season, it wasn't me working the birds, it was the birds working me. Kinda funny.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Lone_Hunter said:


> My luck is such that, when I'm looking for Turkey's, I find deer. When I'm looking for Deer, I find Elk. When I'm looking for Elk, I usually find nothing at all.
> 
> I am certainly no expert at turkey hunting. When I think I've finally got those dang birds figured out, they prove me wrong. Should have seen me last season, it wasn't me working the birds, it was the birds working me. Kinda funny.


Ha! So true. My frustration with turkey hunting goes like this:

When I'm out scouting elk or deer I find turkeys. When I'm out for a brisk walk I find turkeys. When I'm out riding horses I find turkeys. When I'm checking my trail cams I see pics of turkeys. When I finally say to myself these turkeys are everywhere it's time to buy a tag and go kill one this is too easy I find deer, elk, jack rabbits, moose, WILD pheasants, grouse, spike elk, and jackalopes! Not an f-n turkey in sight.

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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

3arabians said:


> Ha! So true. My frustration with turkey hunting goes like this:
> 
> When I'm out scouting elk or deer I find turkeys. When I'm out for a brisk walk I find turkeys. When I'm out riding horses I find turkeys. When I'm checking my trail cams I see pics of turkeys. When I finally say to myself these turkeys are everywhere it's time to buy a tag and go kill one this is too easy I find deer, elk, jack rabbits, moose, WILD pheasants, grouse, spike elk, and *jackalopes!* Not an f-n turkey in sight.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL, haven't heard that in awhile. :mrgreen:









I'm at the point now, especially after these last couple years, where If i notice something I hunt, even if it's not in season, I drop a waypoint and make note of it for later. I don't care what time of the year it is.


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