# LE Turkey Application time



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

The LE turkey application period is open until the Dec. 29th 

Do you apply or hunt the GS?


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## Groganite (Nov 14, 2012)

Both!


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

I prefer to hunt the latter half of May.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Steve Miller Band shirt...........
Good taste in music !!:mrgreen:


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## Eclectic (Jun 9, 2014)

I prefer to hunt in May - I enjoy hunting the higher elevation turkeys in obscure areas later in the season where I run into fewer hunters.


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## nelsonccc (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm confused. How does the turkey draw work? If I put in for the southern region LE as my first choice and a CWMU Harmony as my 2nd choice and don't draw am I still able to get the general season spring over the counter? $100 for a non-resident is pretty steep for a turkey so I want to maximize my odds. Not sure on whether it would help to have the 2nd choice as the CWMU. Thoughts? Anyone ever hunt turkey on a CWMU?


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

if you are unsuccessful on the draw, then you will still be able to purchase an OTC turkey tag for the general hunt.

I can't really say good or bad on the Harmony CWMU. How well do you know southern utah? If you know it well, then I'd probably say forget the cwmu, and just hunt public land.


I put in for the LE tag with my 11 year old daughter. If we are unsuccessful, I will then purchase both of us OTC tags and hunt the general.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I would really like to hunt the LE season as we have good numbers of turkeys hanging around on our farm during that time, but I am always too busy with lambing that time of year. I do enjoy getting up into the mountains to chase them in late May like Eclectic says.


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## nelsonccc (Jul 8, 2014)

I know the south-west portion of Utah well. I grew up in St. George and hunt big game there as often as I can, but this would be my first time hunting Turkey. I think I'll put in for the LE only. I just wasn't sure if it applied to the OTC tags as well, but it sounds like I should be able to get a tag as an OTC if I'm unable to pull the LE.

I was mainly interested in the CWMU option since it sounds special, perhaps a higher success ratio?

Thanks for the help!


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

I would love to hunt the LE, but I won't trade a month long season for a two week season where I'm more likely to get "more wet" than get into more turkeys... They should make it so that LE guys can also hunt during the general season... THEN I would want to get that tag.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

manysteps said:


> I would love to hunt the LE, but I won't trade a month long season for a two week season where I'm more likely to get "more wet" than get into more turkeys... They should make it so that LE guys can also hunt during the general season... THEN I would want to get that tag.


Or they could just make it one season..... but that would make too much sense,


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

New this year, youth that draw LE get to keep hunting if they dont tag out....

Anyone under 18 that draws LE gets a 60 day hunt !


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## Eclectic (Jun 9, 2014)

Boy, I'd love to be in the hills hunting turkeys for a month and a half as well, but unfortunately I don't think that Utah has the available resources to withstand that kind of hunting pressure. We are the 2nd driest state in the nation, and our adequate turkey habitat is VERY limited relative to our geographic area - water and roost trees, sufficiently tall to allow escape from bobcats and cougars, being the primary limiting factors.

Some claim that since hen turkeys have the capability to store sperm after copulation, that the harvest of all the toms wouldn't hurt the population, so long as the hens get bred first. Well that sounds awfully dangerous to me since many hens lose their first nests to depredation or to harsh spring snowstorms - they need toms to re-breed and to re-nest. When we see large winter flocks of turkeys congregated in certain areas, we have a tendency to forget that the winter flock includes all the turkeys within many drainages. As spring breeding time approaches, the hens spread back out over many square miles, and the toms travel around to find them. Without a significant number of toms available to find those hens, adequate breeding will not occur - and we all know what has become of our deer herds due to insufficient numbers of breeding males within the population.

Additionally many hens are not receptive to breeding, especially within our predominately Merriams units, before our hunting season begins in mid-April. I know this from observing breeding among my pen-reared "wild" turkeys.

Some also claim that there is no evidence to support that hunting can adversely impact turkey populations. I claim that there is no RESEARCH to support that notion, but there IS significant evidence right here in Utah. Just ask the locals around the Stansbury, Oquirrh and Pahvant Units which have become popular destinations for turkey hunters from the metropolitan regions of the state. I personally know of 3 excellent drainages on the Pahvant that we stocked in the early and mid-90's that recently lost all their turkeys (I believe) to overhunting. No drainage can get pounded day after day for a month and a half and still maintain a sufficient number of breeding males.

I believe that we as responsible sportsmen have the obligation to insure that our hunting resources thrive and that we implement management policies which guarantee that. I, based on my experiences, truly don't believe that turkeys in Utah could withstand an OTC season that begins in mid-April and extends through May - just a thought....;-)


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

manysteps said:


> I would love to hunt the LE, but I won't trade a month long season for a two week season where I'm more likely to get "more wet" than get into more turkeys... They should make it so that LE guys can also hunt during the general season... THEN I would want to get that tag.


Go read the guide book again. The dates have changed this year. The general is barely longer than the LE. By only a week


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

Eclectic said:


> Boy, I'd love to be in the hills hunting turkeys for a month and a half as well, but unfortunately I don't think that Utah has the available resources to withstand that kind of hunting pressure. We are the 2nd driest state in the nation, and our adequate turkey habitat is VERY limited relative to our geographic area - water and roost trees, sufficiently tall to allow escape from bobcats and cougars, being the primary limiting factors.
> 
> Some claim that since hen turkeys have the capability to store sperm after copulation, that the harvest of all the toms wouldn't hurt the population, so long as the hens get bred first. Well that sounds awfully dangerous to me since many hens lose their first nests to depredation or to harsh spring snowstorms - they need toms to re-breed and to re-nest. When we see large winter flocks of turkeys congregated in certain areas, we have a tendency to forget that the winter flock includes all the turkeys within many drainages. As spring breeding time approaches, the hens spread back out over many square miles, and the toms travel around to find them. Without a significant number of toms available to find those hens, adequate breeding will not occur - and we all know what has become of our deer herds due to insufficient numbers of breeding males within the population.
> 
> ...


Why would it have to be from mid April through May? Why couldn't we have a general season from mid April to mid May? that way you could hunt early or later in the area you wanted. Plus the turkeys are allready being hunted by someone for a month and a half. weather its a LE hunter or a OTC hunter they are still being hunted this entire time, arent they?


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Compared to other states, it seems to me that Utah turkey hunting is pretty generous, given the low turkey populations. Guys who want to hunt the peak breeding can try to draw an LE tag, and those that want to let some snow melt off and let the hens get bred first, can hunt an OTC tag. Many states with a lot more turkeys are a lot more restrictive in their allocation of licenses and much more conservative with their season openings and lengths.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

According to the 2015 DWR calender the gereral hunt runs May 4 - 31.


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## Eclectic (Jun 9, 2014)

All good points! My druthers would be to begin the predominately-Rio units during mid-April and go through mid-May; however, I think the predominantly-Merriams units (i.e., Abajos, Boulder, Flaming Gorge, Henries & La Sals) should NOT open before May 1st & then run through the end of May so that a sufficient number of toms survive to breed available hens - here's why I've developed this opinion: 1) I have raised a couple dozen Merriams hens through the years, and I've never had one "squat" for a tom before May, unlike my Rios which all would begin breeding in early April. None of those Merriams hens laid until they were 2 years old, but all my Rios/Merrios would breed as jennies. 2) A few years ago a friend of mine, who knew that I raised turkeys, went hunting on a Merriams unit and brought me home an adult hen that he had caught by hand. He said that he had been calling, and this hen comes in without a tom, so my friend stood up to go elsewhere to hunt. When the hen saw him, she "squatted" on the ground and didn't move. He, thinking she was hurt, approached her, and she remained motionless. He finally got close enough to her to quickly reach down and catch her! When he brought her to me and told me the story (which I had heard described multiple times before), I noticed that she was indeed a wild hen and VERY lively at that point. I explained that she probably had not yet encountered a tom with which to breed, and instinctively assumed a copulatory posture when she saw my ugly friend - ha! She certainly wasn't hurt, so we took her back to where he caught her, and turned her loose. She flew off like she had been scalded! This took place around the middle of May. 3) About 4 springs ago on May 10th I had to travel across Boulder Mt. for work. As I drove up the mountain from Grover I spied a hen turkey off the side of the road just beyond a cattle guard. I slowed to look at her, and when the truck tires crossed the cattle guard she squatted in the "copulatory posture." I stopped and backed up along the near road shoulder, got out and eased over right to her. I reached down and touched her back, at which time she shot up and took off running like I had shot at her - another hen that had not yet encountered an available tom?

These are all anecdotal evidences that Utah Merriams breed significantly later than Rios, and I think that we may unwittingly adversely impact our Merriams units by killing males before breeding begins. I believe that a May-only hunt for Merriams would help us maximize the number of turkeys that our Merriams units can support. Just a thought.... ;-)


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Eclectic said:


> 2) A few years ago a friend of mine, who knew that I raised turkeys, went hunting on a Merriams unit and brought me home an adult hen that he had caught by hand. He said that he had been calling, and this hen comes in without a tom, so my friend stood up to go elsewhere to hunt. When the hen saw him, she "squatted" on the ground and didn't move. He, thinking she was hurt, approached her, and she remained motionless. He finally got close enough to her to quickly reach down and catch her! When he brought her to me and told me the story (which I had heard described multiple times before), I noticed that she was indeed a wild hen and VERY lively at that point. I explained that she probably had not yet encountered a tom with which to breed, and instinctively assumed a copulatory posture when she saw my ugly friend - ha! She certainly wasn't hurt, so we took her back to where he caught her, and turned her loose. She flew off like she had been scalded! This took place around the middle of May. 3) About 4 springs ago on May 10th I had to travel across Boulder Mt. for work. As I drove up the mountain from Grover I spied a hen turkey off the side of the road just beyond a cattle guard. I slowed to look at her, and when the truck tires crossed the cattle guard she squatted in the "copulatory posture." I stopped and backed up along the near road shoulder, got out and eased over right to her. I reached down and touched her back, at which time she shot up and took off running like I had shot at her - another hen that had not yet encountered an available tom?


Speaking of Utah hens assuming the copulatory posture for humans...


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

In light of the rule change for youth (thanks for pointing that out), I put my 13 year old son in for the LE tag... With school, he only gets weekends to hunt anyway, so if he can draw the tag, that'd be great to get some more time in the hills for him.


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## Eclectic (Jun 9, 2014)

Thanks for pointing that out, Hawg... that was a hen from a wild flock in Washington County on a university-owned farm. The guys name is Danny Kessler, and that hen never let humans approach her again after that brief encounter.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Question, how many points does it normally take to draw a central tag? I won't have time to hunt most likely during the general this year before I move to Alaska for the summer, and am curious if I even have a shot at getting an le tag with 0 points.


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

i think with 0 points its 1 in 10 chances according to the report. I drew central last year with 1 point


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