# Limiting ammo



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

It is my understanding that there are a few waterfowling areas around the country that limit the amount(number) of shells one can carry in the field. Most reports that I have read and personal conversations with some hunters in Washington indicate that most hunters really like the concept. 15-25 rounds per day seems to be the usual number. A skybusters worst nightmare. 

Any thoughts?


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

I usually carry 50 in an MTM case made to hold that many. I have NEVER shot more than a box on any given day of hunting. Usually 15 or less shells for a full bag of 7. Some of the 50 are #7 shot for dispatching cripples on the water - deadly load for that. I absolutely would not have a problem if a shell limit were imposed in Utah. I would also like it if you could be cited for NOT bringing most, if not all, of your empties out with you at the end of the hunt.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I think we should limit the number of shells to 10.


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## Ducksanddogs (Oct 9, 2016)

My fiancé an I did the BRBR for the last two days for the first time and it seemed like 10 shells felt like not enough shells when things were good but it still took a good 3 hours to shoot them all and it didn’t feel too bad. 15 would probably be perfect. I’ve done one box when I go out for the longest time. I guess long story short. The shell limit wasn’t a bad experience. 


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The airboaters wouldn't like a regulation like that, because they are the one's that do all of the skybusting.
And another thing, if you can only have 10 shells how are the airboaters supposed to shoot their 25 coot limits?


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Not many of us are expert shooters like paddler believes himself to be. :rotfl:

And what with cripple dispatch needed without a canine companion, 10 shells would be unacceptable to most folks. I can't think of any reason that would require a limit of less than one box of shells for general waterfowl hunting.

I've already stated that I carry 50, but never refill the MTM case until I've gotten down to less than 20 shells. I would have absolutely no problem with only going afield with 25 shells.

We have all heard about or actually seen youngsters go through several boxes on their special youth hunt and I would suggest that on that one day a year that a shell limit could be waived. :smile:

I would most definitely NOT be in favor of a 10 shell limit state wide. On the other hand, the 10 shell limit for swan permit holders at BRBR is too high in my opinion. I would like to see it cut to 5 for that specific event. :mrgreen:

It's nice to have this discussion and see the number of folks that do take sportsmanship and hunting ethics to heart. But I seriously doubt that we will ever see a shell limit imposed in my lifetime _ I'm 76.

All y'all take care now and have a great season this year.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> The airboaters wouldn't like a regulation like that, because they are the one's that do all of the skybusting.
> And another thing, if you can only have 10 shells how are the airboaters supposed to shoot their 25 coot limits?


I'm taking your comments as tongue in cheek, but that brings up a very good point. The coot limit is in fact 25 a day. And not even paddler is that good a shot that he could kill a limit of coot AND ducks AND geese with only 10 shells if he decided he wanted to shoot a limit of each on a single outing.

Just one of the many reasons why I firmly believe that I'll not live long enough to ever see this implemented.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

dubob said:


> ... But I seriously doubt that we will ever see a shell limit imposed in my lifetime _ I'm 76.
> 
> ...


We already have shot shell limits in most Fed Refuges in one form or the other...from BRBR:

"You may only possess 10 shells while
hunting within 50 feet of the center of
the Unit 1A and 2C dikes."


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

I would totally support a 15 shell limit,especially for the youth hunt.
Think if our future waterfowlers actually cared about bringing birds in close for a one shot/one kill ratio.
Everybody wins,except the ammo company of course.


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## 7summits (Nov 28, 2017)

Just what we need, more government intervention. Good hell. Do you know how much ammo I waste shooting other people's cripples. The last thing we need is to become California.


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

Put a shell limit will not stop the sky buster


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

I remember blazing through a couple boxes on youth day - man, those are good memories! The 10 shell limit for swans in certain areas of BRBR is a cool idea, and seems to work well out there. I don’t support a shell restriction across the board and, most likely, never will. If a person does their scouting and spends the time to cover their hide where the birds want to be, it doesn’t really matter if the dike hunters are sky busting ...


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Fowlmouth said:


> The airboaters wouldn't like a regulation like that, because they are the one's that do all of the skybusting.
> And another thing, if you can only have 10 shells how are the airboaters supposed to shoot their 25 coot limits?


When I read this Good Lookin Dave (Auto) as he calls himself came to mind. Airboater's refer to him as D-Bag Dave. Every day around 2:30 he shows up burns a tank of gas around the mouth of the flow. Finds a spot the starts blazing away.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I need:

7 shots for ducks
4 for Canada geese
8 for snipe
25 for coot
15 in October for Mourning dove
20 in November for snow geese
2 in November for pheasants

So I'd support shell restrictions if I were limited to no more than 59 shells in October and no more than 66 after that.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

shaner said:


> I would totally support a 15 shell limit,especially for the youth hunt.
> Think if our future waterfowlers actually cared about bringing birds in close for a one shot/one kill ratio.
> Everybody wins,except the ammo company of course.


I, of course, can not and do not speak for others that were out for the youth hunt this year. But my young shooters did NOT shoot at anything longer than 35 yards with most of the birds closer than that. There was no skybusting from either of these two. The problem with most youth is the almost total lack of practice on shooting moving targets. Neither of my hunters had fired a shotgun since last season. There parents don't participate in clay target shooting and the kids don't have much experience with leads (forward allowance) on moving targets. Those kids who do shoot clay targets during the warmer months leading up to the hunting seasons, have a much lower shell to duck ration than those that don't.

And for what its worth, shooting clay targets on a regular basis by all adult hunters would go a long way in reducing the amount of sky busting we see. It teaches lead (forward allowance) and distance effectiveness.

So I have to respectfully disagree with you on the shell limit during the youth hunt. *IF* the youth have a knowledgeable mentor who teaches them proper distance estimation, decoy placement, duck call use, etc., then they shouldn't be penalized by a shell limit for their lack of practice with hitting moving targets.


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## Subway (Aug 28, 2018)

I'll be the 1st to say it even without sky busting I am a terrible shot I appreciate bear river refuge for the fact that they do limit the shells and look forward to the day when I can shoot there and weeks another's gonna be less Yahoo's around but for now I have to take my 3 boxes to Farmington or Ogden Bay so I can collect my 3 birds


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Subway said:


> I'll be the 1st to say it even without sky busting I am a terrible shot I appreciate bear river refuge for the fact that they do limit the shells and look forward to the day when I can shoot there and weeks another's gonna be less Yahoo's around but for now I have to take my 3 boxes to Farmington or Ogden Bay so I can collect my 3 birds


I started shooting Skeet back in the late 1980s. My shell to duck ratio was about 6 or 7 to one. Within 2 years that ratio went down to 2 or less to 1 on an average basis for the season. I was shooting Trap (for about 25 years) before that and it didn't help with hitting game birds because most game bird shots aren't going away shots - especially waterfowl. Skeet, and now Sporting Clays, teaches all angles of target presentations and will make anybody a better shot on game birds. Shooting 2 to 4 boxes (50 to 100 shells) once or twice a month every month during the off season will improve your shooting prowess to the point that you can even hold your own against paddler. -()/-


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

dubob said:


> Skeet, and now Sporting Clays, teaches all angles of target presentations and will make anybody a better shot on game birds. Shooting 2 to 4 boxes (50 to 100 shells) once or twice a month every month during the off season will improve your shooting prowess to the point that you can even hold your own against paddler. -()/-


I couldn't agree more! I've shot trap, skeet, and sporting clays monthly for going on 15 years. It's a great hobby and keeps one 'tuned up.'

Plus you get to smile a little when your buddies tell you 'nice shot' after connecting with that teal in the marshes or rooster pheasant in South Dakota when they come screaming over like station #8 on the skeet range.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

No need for a shell limit for adults or kids. If the ducks are too high to shoot then the skybusters won't hit them anyway. Cripples can happen at short or long ranges, the trick is having a way to retrieve the birds, a boat or good dog works for this.


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## Subway (Aug 28, 2018)

At bear river is it only 10 shells if you are on the **** and you are allowed more if you are off the bank so many feet or is it simply 10 shells.


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## sheepassassin (Mar 23, 2018)

Next time you think you have a great idea to suggest that involves limiting the freedoms of others that enjoy the same activities you do, just don’t. Personally I shot 4 boxes before 9 am opening morning. Am I embarrassed about that? Absolutely not. I’m better than your average shot. I had a great time. Many shells were spent at cripples to prevent them from swimming off. Limiting shells is a terrible idea. Just don’t.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

dubob said:


> shaner said:
> 
> 
> > I would totally support a 15 shell limit,especially for the youth hunt.
> ...


Bob,

I do not mind you disagreeing with me, this has been a great discussion on shooting ethics.
I was raised with a single shot .22 and a single shot break open shotgun. I had to think quickly before I even thought of touching the trigger.
I also would rather spend my money on things other than shooting holes in the sky so to me making each shot count ranks high in my books.
I will admit I get extremely frustrated as the birds are educated to fly higher and higher as more out-of-range shots are attempted at them.
That is why I support an ammo limitation. 
It makes me cringe when I hear hunters say they had an excellent duck hunt because they went through two boxes and they have three ducks to show for it. If a deer hunter said they had an excellent hunt because they used a box of cartridges and had one doe in the truck they would be shamed off the mountain. 
I would also love to see sky blasters leave the marsh empty handed after they ran out of their shell quota!
And, for the record, I don't mind at all sharing the marsh with Paddler type hunters because I know any shells fired by him will be very methodically thought out and will result in heavy game straps.

I look forward to fishing with you soon Bob,
Shane


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I threw out my suggestion merely to stimulate discussion. Anybody who has ever shot clays or hunted with me will tell you that I'm not a good shot. Worse than average on clays of all types. I shoot a higher percentage than most on waterfowl because I know my limitations and so am conservative regarding shot selection. I try to take easy shots and avoid pulling the trigger on marginal opportunities.

I'm also at a stage where numbers don't mean anything. I go out with 25 shells each time. A really bad day is when it takes more than 20 shells to kill a limit. I'd be content with a 10 shell limit because I eat what I kill, and 10 shells should provide several meals. If I end up short of a limit, no problem. My opinion is if you require more than, say, 15 shells to kill a limit of ducks over decoys, you're doing something wrong. Some days you can do it with six:



Sub gauges, like the 28, can take a few more:



Bottom line, it's more about shot selection and staying within your personal limitations than shooting skill.


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## Luhk (Aug 16, 2017)

The main reason for the 10 shell limit is not just for sky busting, it is a deterant to hunters using the area. Most hunters dislike the 10 shell limit, so they do not go to those areas to hunt.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

and people talk about the number hunters going away. add this and there will be lot more dropping out and we will lose more wet lands. we dont need no more dam laws to worry about. good hell we got enough it hard enough to keep straight.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I only use 7 a day, and get my 7 birds every time out. :shock:


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

paddler said:


> I threw out my suggestion merely to stimulate discussion. Anybody who has ever shot clays or hunted with me will tell you that I'm not a good shot. Worse than average on clays of all types. I shoot a higher percentage than most on waterfowl because I know my limitations and so am conservative regarding shot selection. I try to take easy shots and avoid pulling the trigger on marginal opportunities.
> 
> I'm also at a stage where numbers don't mean anything. I go out with 25 shells each time. A really bad day is when it takes more than 20 shells to kill a limit. I'd be content with a 10 shell limit because I eat what I kill, and 10 shells should provide several meals. If I end up short of a limit, no problem. My opinion is if you require more than, say, 15 shells to kill a limit of ducks over decoys, you're doing something wrong. Some days you can do it with six:
> 
> ...


Disgusting! what are those? park ducks??? bet they tasted like popcorn and bread crumbs...:mrgreen:


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Luhk said:


> The main reason for the 10 shell limit is not just for sky busting, it is a deterant to hunters using the area. Most hunters dislike the 10 shell limit, so they do not go to those areas to hunt.


Guaranteed that the majority of birds will go to the limited shell area.
Don't believe me, go stand on the dividing line of an unlimited shell area and a rest area.....
Granted, a 10 shell area will not hold as many birds as a rest area but it will hold more birds, for longer periods, than the unlimited shell area.
We as hunters can put up with mediocre hunting or we can self police ourselves and develop excellent hunting areas.
Take GF and Fowl for example:
I don't know them but I feel I know their hunting methods. I'm sure they put in a ton of effort to not overhunt their areas, take extremely selective shot opportunities to not blow out the birds, and then reap the rewards of their efforts.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

goosefreak said:


> Disgusting! what are those? park ducks??? bet they tasted like popcorn and bread crumbs...:mrgreen:


Worse. Livery tasting, but just the two. The others were great.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

shaner said:


> Guaranteed that the majority of birds will go to the limited shell area.
> Don't believe me, go stand on the dividing line of an unlimited shell area and a rest area.....
> Granted, a 10 shell area will not hold as many birds as a rest area but it will hold more birds, for longer periods, than the unlimited shell area.
> We as hunters can put up with mediocre hunting or we can self police ourselves and develop excellent hunting areas.
> ...


The only 10 shell limit area I know of is swan alley at BR. It's just to ensure people don't skyblast at swans so as to keep the crippling rate down.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

shaner said:


> Take GF and Fowl for example:
> I don't know them but I feel I know their hunting methods. I'm sure they put in a ton of effort to not overhunt their areas, take extremely selective shot opportunities to not blow out the birds, and then reap the rewards of their efforts.


Aww gee, Thanks for the compliments!

in fact you are right. However, we do frequent a couple of spots and rotate between them depending on how the birds play. We like them close and tight because it makes for good clean kills and we can get out of there before we shoot all the birds up (most the time:-?). Besides, its more fun that way!

I would jump on board with opening up limited shell areas but, I would go no less than 15. If I were to have my say in a limited shell area I'd make it a 25 shell limit (1 box) I think thats a good middle ground for all, and would defiantly give the skybusters something to think about when they start pulling the trigger..


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> We already have shot shell limits in most Fed Refuges in one form or the other...from BRBR:
> 
> "You may only possess 10 shells while
> hunting within 50 feet of the center of
> the Unit 1A and 2C dikes."


It's because that is where most all the swans are hunted. And for that reason only.


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## Ducksanddogs (Oct 9, 2016)

So I played with this idea the other day when I went to Farmington bay. Mainly because when I was loading up by truck, I remembered this discussion were having.

So I loaded 10 shells in my waders and began my very very very long, mosquito infested, sweaty, hot hike into a new spot. The weather has stabilized for a bit and so the birds weren’t really moving much but still my 10 shells were plenty. I did miss 9 of those but got a red head hen and that was good but still it got me plenty of time out there. 

If the birds were moving and I had more opportunities, I would have wanted at least a full box of shells in my pocket. So there you go. 2 more of my cents for this discussion. 


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Only taking out 10 shells isn't going to make someone a better shot, only the person has control of that, and having the 10 shells is the motivator to exercise that kind of self control.. Same concept when giving someone 3 boxes to shoot 7 ducks., Just gives one a reason not to exercise self control..


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## Ducksanddogs (Oct 9, 2016)

goosefreak said:


> Only taking out 10 shells isn't going to make someone a better shot, only the person has control of that, and having the 10 shells is the motivator to exercise that kind of self control.. Same concept when giving someone 3 boxes to shoot 7 ducks., Just gives one a reason not to exercise self control..


Best statement yet!

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## 7summits (Nov 28, 2017)

**** happens...better to have too many than not enough.


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