# grouse question of the day



## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

Is it legal to harvest grouse with a .22, according to state laws?


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

No, but its OK to pick off turkeys in their roost with a rifle in Wyoming. But I think the law states it must be larger than a 22 magnum. The .223 is a good turkey round in Wyoming.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Nope. No rifles. You must use either a shotgun, archery equipment, or a pistol, and the pistol has to be capable of throwing at least 1/8 oz of shot. I've tried to find away around blowing them to pieces with my shotgun, and the best I can come up with is a smaller gauge shotgun, with an open choke, and lighter loads. I have used my singleshot 28 ga in the past, but it has a fixed full choke, so it still does some damage if the birds are close.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

The only "pistol" you can use in Utah is a .410 shot-gun "pistol". (Maybe you could home-brew a .50 or .454 casull with bird-shot, I'm out of my element with the really big-bore pistols) but getting around that bird-shot requirement is pointless. If you need a hand-cannon loaded with birdshot, you might as well have a shotgun. I tried, briefly, to point this out at one of the RAC's but nobody cared and the rule remains what it is. I hope to get it fixed on the next re-write or maybe just get rid of the rule altogether.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Taurus does make that judge, which shoots .410 shotshells as well as .45 LC. I wouldn't mind trying that out!


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

ChaserOfAllBirds said:


> Nope. No rifles. You must use either a shotgun, archery equipment, or a pistol, and the pistol has to be capable of throwing at least 1/8 oz of shot. I've tried to find away around blowing them to pieces with my shotgun, and the best I can come up with is a smaller gauge shotgun, with an open choke, and lighter loads. I have used my singleshot 28 ga in the past, but it has a fixed full choke, so it still does some damage if the birds are close.


How are you blowing them to pieces? I shoot a 12 ga 1 1/8 oz shot and never "blow them to pieces".


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## Lycan (Sep 22, 2008)

I've got a Judge. It's fun to shoot, but so far I've only shot a jackrabbit with it. You do have to shoot at *very* close range because the rifling in the barrel spreads the shot out really quick. You'd probably have to ground pound a grouse to get a quick kill out of it, but at least you'd be able to eat it.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Well now that I have a shotgun with different choke tubes, and a solid knowledge of shot sizes and charges, it makes it a lot easier to not blow them up. The shotguns I used before were fixed full chokes, and when it came to close shots, it would tear birds up pretty bad unless they were out there aways.


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## BROWN BAGGER (Sep 13, 2007)

Yah, this really sucks, how do you carry a shotgun and a rifle at the same time. Other than packing a over and under. which I have debated for years. 30-06 / 12 gauge. but who wants to pack around 20 pounds of gun! On the hunt, not only do those grouse scare the living tar out of you, when they fly right up from the bottom of your feet; they set there and run around the bottom of pine trees right in front of you. I was hoping to pack my .22 semi pocket pistol and have dinner on the table for the night. My buddy is picking up some bird shot for his dirty harry gun, so we will have to go that route.


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## jason.little (Sep 22, 2008)

Using a .22 to hunt birds is very dangerous. Those .22 rounds can travel a long way and since your not likely to hit the bird with the .22 or having it pass through, I don't want to be at the receiving end off a poor shot or my dog for the matter. Thats why its illegal.


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## Lycan (Sep 22, 2008)

I pulled this directly from this year's proclamation:


> Weapon and ammunition
> requirements
> 50 CFR 20.21 and Utah Admin. Code R657-6-6 and R657-5-9
> Upland game may be taken with a shotgun
> ...


Trooper is 100% correct. A handgun firing a .410 shotshell would pretty much be the only legal means of shooting grouse with a handgun. Since 1/2 oz. of shot is the minimum, there aren't really any legal commercial loads out there for handguns. The CCI shot loads are the only kind for handguns that I know of, and according their website the heaviest shot load they have is for the .45 LC with 150 grains, which is about 1/3 oz. of shot. The .44 only has only 140 grains of shot loaded. so the Dirty Harry gun is out of the question too. The other part of that makes these loads illegal, despite how much shot is in there, is that CCI uses #9 or #12 shot for everything. Too small! I don't mean to come down on anyone, I would just hate to see you guys get in trouble with the lawman.

I've often thought about being able to hunt deer or elk and grouse simultaneously, but I don't think it is really worth it. The OU shotgun/rifles intrigued me for a while as well as the rifles loaded for .45 LC/.410, but then I starting thinking that you run across the wrong CO and they cite you for carrying bird shells while deer hunting, or rifle/handgun bullets while bird hunting,etc.. Same could be said about hunting deer with a shotgun since the load legalities for grouse vs. deer is on opposite sides of the spectrum. I just decided it's better to keep the shotgun in camp while I'm deer and elk hunting, and make the switch when the time calls for it.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

You wouldn't need to worry about having bullets on you during a bird hunt or shells on you during a deer hunt so long as you are licensed to hunt both, and have the appropriate ammo for each game you are hunting. Thanks for clearing up the shot weight. I knew it was more than most handguns currently have factory ammo made for, but wasn't sure of the exact amount. 1/2 ounce it is. I guess about the only pistol that would be legal for upland birds right now is that Taurus judge, or something similar.


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## hunter_orange13 (Oct 11, 2008)

i think i'm trying archery this year, 6 days to the grouse hunt! 7 till the deer!


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## coydogg (Oct 6, 2007)

I dont think the Judge would be a good way to go. I think it should only be used what it was designed for, self defense. I would suggest trying to get your hands on a TC Contender. The 410 barrel you get for that is perfect. It is a little bulky to pack but you can get used to it.


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