# A Tip Of The Hat To The Jazz



## Critter

I am surprised that it hasn't been brought up before, but how about those Jazz? 

The best record in basketball and the number 1 spot in the playoffs. 

If they play like they are suppose to play they should go a long way. Snyder just needs to figure out how to make them play 4 quarters of basketball instead of 1 or 2. The slow starts that they have is bad for a person that has a heart condition.


----------



## RandomElk16

They have done great this year!

Could have lots of R1 pressure and face the Warriors or Lakers. That would be a let down to lose in R1. Then R2 they are facing the winner of Clippers/Dallas. Tough year to "win" the conference lol.

Guess we see how health goes for them!


----------



## Catherder

It has been a fun season. It is an underrrated accomplishment that they hung onto the #1 seed after Mitchell and Conley went down last month. 

Health will be key in the playoffs, but then it is for everyone, especially the Lakers.


----------



## taxidermist

Give it time, They will fall flat on their ars the same way they do in fourth quarters. I once was a Jazz supporter holding season tickets, but after seeing the same 4th Quarter almost every home game, I gave them up after 4 seasons. Now I don't give a hoot about them. 

Best of luck to them though.


----------



## 2full

They have been fun to watch this year. But they do tend to go to sleep once in a while and lose some games they should win...... Minnesota for sure. 
3 times !!
Their biggest issue is going to be is how healthy are Mitchell and Conley. Without those two playing 100 percent they will be done in a hurry. 
Conley can't seem to stay on the court for very long. Missed a bunch of time this year. 
Will be interesting.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

2full said:


> They have been fun to watch this year. But they do tend to go to sleep once in a while and lose some games they should win...... Minnesota for sure.
> 3 times !!
> Their biggest issue is going to be is how healthy are Mitchell and Conley. Without those two playing 100 percent they will be done in a hurry.
> Conley can't seem to stay on the court for very long. Missed a bunch of time this year.
> Will be interesting.


I think they’ll be fine provided they don’t draw the Lakers in round 1. The league would never allow them to win that series and oust the biggest name in sports and biggest brand in the league in round 1. Conleys longevity is more iffy, I expect Mitchell is fine and they have simply been holding him out for rest and to make sure he’s fully at 100% on his ankle.


----------



## taxidermist

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I think they’ll be fine provided they don’t draw the Lakers in round 1. The league would never allow them to win that series and oust the biggest name in sports and biggest brand in the league in round 1. Conleys longevity is more iffy, I expect Mitchell is fine and they have simply been holding him out for rest and to make sure he’s fully at 100% on his ankle.


It would be best if they did face the "Fakers" in round 1. James has been out for nearly 6 weeks, and once he gets his rhythm he can score big points.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

taxidermist said:


> It would be best if they did face the "Fakers" in round 1. James has been out for nearly 6 weeks, and once he gets his rhythm he can score big points.


If you watched him the past couple games, I think it’s quite clear he’s just fine. The NBA and Lebron like story lines. This one writes “The Lakers faced with the play in tournament, Lebron coming off the worst injury of his career, beat the number 1 seed in the western conference in the 1st round”. Can’t stress this enough, the NBA is not letting it’s biggest star, and biggest brand die in round 1 to the team from Salt Lake City. It won’t happen, if the Jazz draw the Lakers in round one, that series is over before it begins and the league will make sure of it lol. I’m begging for the Lakers to win Wednesday night and secure the 7 seed and get them out of the Jazz matchup.


----------



## Critter

The outcome is fixed ya better head to Vegas and get a bet down.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

Man, with how crappy everyone above says the Jazz both start and finish games, you’d think they were the #1 pick in the draft and not the outright #1 seed in the whole league. (For the first time ever in franchise history, mind you.)

The Jazz and their fans have been demanding respect all season. While being the best team in the regular season is no small accomplishment, a team doesn’t earn respect in the regular season. If they are the best team in the league, they need to go prove it now.

I have mixed feelings on the matchups I’d like to see and when for strategic purposes, but if you’re going to the Finals you’re likely going to have to go through the Lakers and Clippers eventually anyway. You have to go through everyone to win it all.

I hope this is a really exciting June in Utah this year.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> The outcome is fixed ya better head to Vegas and get a bet down.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


I bet those Vegas odds will be pretty even in whatever 1st round series the Lakers get.


----------



## Critter

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I bet those Vegas odds will be pretty even in whatever 1st round series the Lakers get.


I was thinking that you seam to think that the fix is in why not put your money on the Lakers to go all the way. There should be some good odds for a number 8 team to beat the number 1 team in the second round.


----------



## Vanilla

Critter said:


> I was thinking that you seam to think that the fix is in why not put your money on the Lakers to go all the way. There should be some good odds for a number 8 team to beat the number 1 team in the second round.


It would REALLY be something for an 8 seed to beat 1 seed in the 2nd round!🤣


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> I was thinking that you seam to think that the fix is in why not put your money on the Lakers to go all the way. There should be some good odds for a number 8 team to beat the number 1 team in the second round.


I don’t necessarily think the Lakers are fixed to the finals or a title. But taking your biggest star out of the running in round one, who plays for your most popular team, is not something they’re going to want to happen.


----------



## Vanilla

Anything short of a Lakers-Nets Finals is going to be a massive ratings hit. And of course the NBA wants the best ratings possible. Why wouldn’t they? But to suggest already at this point that a Jazz-Lakers series is fixed before they are been paired together seems like someone trying to build in an excuse more than anything.

The NBA will not rig the first round of the playoffs over the next 2 weeks, regardless of the matchups. That’s my prediction.


----------



## taxidermist

Whatever happens in the lineups, the jazz will have to play A+ basketball the entire run of the playoffs. Key players MUST stay healthy to take a title. It will be interesting to see how the officiating plays out. Will they (officials) be calling tacky fouls, or let them play a physical game. That alone can deflate a team in a hurry.


----------



## Critter

While I don't like the tacky fouls as long as the officials call it both ways I am fine. But when they just do it to one team then it is just wrong. 

The nice thing about 7 game series is that a team can have one or two bad games and still will it. Just as long as those bad games are not the ones that really count.


----------



## Vanilla

Jazz-Steph is going to be a lot of fun.

Assume for the sake of discussion that the Jazz do go to the Finals and go through Warriors, Clippers, and Lakers. They’d dispatch Steph, Kawhi, and the King. Is that the greatest road to Finals ever?


----------



## taxidermist

Vanilla said:


> Jazz-Steph is going to be a lot of fun.
> 
> Assume for the sake of discussion that the Jazz do go to the Finals and go through Warriors, Clippers, and Lakers. They’d dispatch Steph, Kawhi, and the King. Is that the greatest road to Finals ever?


That would be great to see! Fortunately, MJ and Horny are retired and we don't have to see another "bad call".


----------



## Vanilla

The Jazz always get bad calls. They don’t need the Finals for that to happen!


----------



## Critter

Well, cross the Warriors off the list and pencil in the Grizzleys who are headed to Utah for a game on Sunday.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

Sweep is Spida plays at a high level immediately. 5 at the most either way. 

Huge coaching error by Kerr to not foul down 3 with 27 seconds to go.


----------



## Catherder

Wow, that was a surprise. 

Although it would have been fun as heck to watch, I'm kind of glad we don't get Steph. That said, I think the Grizzles will be a tough test and it will go 6 games, with us winning. 

The playoffs in general should be a lot of fun.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Jazz had everything in those play-ins break their way. I would say Jazz in 5 against the Grizzlies.


----------



## taxidermist

I think I'll watch the Jazz play a game Sunday. This will be the first game I've watched them play in four years.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

taxidermist said:


> I think I'll watch the Jazz play a game Sunday. This will be the first game I've watched them play in four years.


Today also went well for them, the Mavericks beat the Clippers in game 1. I’d far rather see them play the Mavericks in round 2 than the Clippers. Everyone so far has looked somewhat vulnerable. I hope they can come out and make a statement and end this series relatively shortly. Grizzlies are a tough team, but the Jazz are the far and away more talented team as of now. The last few days have been very beneficial to them.


----------



## Critter

The Jazz had their mulligan tonight, they couldn't hit a 3 pointer if their life depended on it. Hopefully they'll wake up for the next game.

But they had trouble with the Grizzleys during the regular season. 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## taxidermist

What can I say? The Jazz played their game of getting a 13 point lead just to give the game away. Guess they don't want it as bad as the Grizz. I'm done with the NBA and the Jazz.


----------



## Vanilla

The Jazz played horribly for probably 35 of the 48 minutes last night, and still should have won the game. They let the Grizzlies push them around and then talk smack about it the entire game too. If they have any pride at all, they dispatch of this team in the next 4 games.

Back in January there were a lot of Jazz fans and even some players whining about not getting any respect. Well, you don’t earn respect in January. You do it in May and June. We’ll see what the Jazz earn. The next week will tell a lot about this team and their makeup.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> They let the Grizzlies push them around and then talk smack about it the entire game too. If they have any pride at all, they dispatch of this team in the next 4 games.



If they had any pride at all, they wouldn't have allowed what happened last night to happen at all. 



Vanilla said:


> ...you don’t earn respect in January. You do it in May and June. We’ll see what the Jazz earn. The next week will tell a lot about this team and their makeup.


I learned a lot just watching last night. I threw up a little in my mouth.


----------



## Vanilla

Fair points, PBH. But this wouldn’t be the first time a heavy favorite sleep walked into a series and it took getting punched in the mouth to wake them up.

Here is to hoping they wake up!


----------



## Critter

The Grizzles match up very well with the Jazz. While they only played 3 games in the regular season the Jazz only had one game that they won by more than 4 points. 

It will be a interesting series, but the Jazz need to get the 3's going down. I'm not sure what they shot Sunday night but it was pathetic. That along with loosing the lead that they had.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> ... this wouldn’t be the first time a heavy favorite sleep walked into a series and it took getting punched in the mouth to wake them up.
> 
> Here is to hoping they wake up!


I hate to say this. Really, I do. I'm a fan. But, my goodness....

.....Donovan Mitchell's outfit last night was bad. Not just ugly, but nearing the point of turning fans off. Not the message of supporting historically black colleges, but rather the message of "_hey, look at me. I now have a platform. I'm wearing fashionable glasses and a custom leather jacket to help support my cause. And my collar is up. And, oh, by the way - I can still go talk to the referees because I'm now a superstar, even though I'm in my street clothes. And, if you taunt my players, I'll push you. I'm tough_."

Total Lebron wannabe last night. I wish it weren't so.

It's games like this one that you really wish that we still had someone like Jae Crowder. I mean, we had Kyle Anderson, Dillon Brooks, and Desmond Bane bullying us! As in, they took our sandwich and ate it. They then walked off with our girlfriends!! And we've never heard their names mentioned before last night.

I'm praying that he puts the clothing line back in the closet and pulls out his uniform on Wednesday. Ugh.


(and, someone -- PLEASE -- take the ball out of Bojan's hands.)








(and let's just keep Niang a nice comfy spot on the bench)


----------



## taxidermist

.....Donovan Mitchell's outfit last night was bad. Not just ugly, but nearing the point of turning fans off. Not the message of supporting historically black colleges, but rather the message of "_hey, look at me. I now have a platform. I'm wearing fashionable glasses and a custom leather jacket to help support my cause. And my collar is up. And, oh, by the way - I can still go talk to the referees because I'm now a superstar, even though I'm in my street clothes. And, if you taunt my players, I'll push you. I'm tough_."

That was pathetic! I thought he was a great roll model for the jazz and had more to him than that. He's just another "PUNK" as far as I'm concerned now. 

A championship caliber team doesn't play the way the "Spazz" did last night. If they are able to squeak past the Grizz, they will not make it past the second round of the playoffs. I see the Suns going all the way to the finals.


----------



## Critter

It seams that every time that I see Mitchel in his street clothes he is wearing about the same outfit.

A couple of sports broadcasters on ESPN were referring to him as Labron Jr


----------



## Catherder

A couple things to unpack here. 



PBH said:


> Total Lebron wannabe last night. I wish it weren't so.


Yeah, his sartorial selections have left a bit to be desired. (more Westbrookesque than Lebron but whatever) However, if it helps us get half the calls Lebron gets, he can dress in a clown suit for all I care. (Actually, he may have a few games ago.  )



PBH said:


> It's games like this one that you really wish that we still had someone like Jae Crowder. I mean, we had Kyle Anderson, Dillon Brooks, and Desmond Bane bullying us! As in, they took our sandwich and ate it. They then walked off with our girlfriends!! And we've never heard their names mentioned before last night.


+10,000. Jae used to drive me crazy in the moment with his green light for 30% accuracy, but what he provided has been missing from the Jazz the past 2 years. Well described. 



PBH said:


> (and let's just keep Niang a nice comfy spot on the bench)


.
IDK, Niang can clang 3's off the rim as well as the rest of the team. The last few weeks of the season, he hasn't been too bad as we hung onto the #1 spot with smoke and mirrors and neither of our 2 good guards.


----------



## Vanilla

It’s funny that people care what a player wears. I think the style of these NBA players these days is atrocious, but I also could not care less what another man wears. We can pretend like it isn’t the message bothering us on this one, but we’d only be pretending. Just sayin. (the proverbial “us,” of course...cause it didn’t bother me)

I will agree his antics on the bench were ridiculous. I kept saying to myself, “He doesn’t look hurt to me.” But with what’s come out after the game, that may have been his intent in what he was doing: to show some people he wasn’t hurt. If you guys don’t think an athlete should be an activist and speak his mind, jump off the Jazz bandwagon. Your star player has made it clear he is going to do just that, and will very much be encouraged to continue to do so by the billionaire who recently bought the team. The Jazz organization is very much going to be out front on these issues, so if you can’t handle it, get out of the way now and save yourself a lot of frustration.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Your star player has made it clear he is going to do just that, and will very much be encouraged to continue to do so by the billionaire who recently bought the team. The Jazz organization is very much going to be out front on these issues, so if you can’t handle it, get out of the way now and save yourself a lot of frustration.


A historical regular season for the Utah Jazz. Best ever in history of the franchise.

it's also the first season ever that I did not watch their games. I chose this year to not subscribe to a cable / satellite carrier, and thus have already started the process of no longer scheduling my life around Jazz games. 

It's easy to see that things have changed, and will continue to change. Gone are the days of rock music blasting through an arena. Welcome to the hip-hop dance party.



(I'm going to put my headphones in and jam to some Metallica for a little while.)


----------



## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> but I also could not care less what another man wears.


Does that include flat brims? 

I think the Jazz with turn the series around and make a deep run into the playoffs. I doubt they'll end up on top, but I'm not rooting for their demise either.


----------



## Catherder

CPAjeff said:


> Does that include flat brims?


Careful, that is a sensitive topic for some folks.


----------



## Vanilla

Catherder said:


> Careful, that is a sensitive topic for some folks.


Yes!!!!! This is a sensitive topic. You can't go ruining someone's reputation with evil accusations like that. 🤣 

And Jeff, yes, that includes wearing flat brims. Wear them if you want. Just like Russ, LeBron and Donavon can wear whatever hideous looking capri pant suit they desire as well. You won't see me in them, but they can do whatever they want, and I won't worry too much about it. (IE- meaning, I won't worry at all about it) 

PBH, I don't watch a lot of regular season Jazz games for the very reason you stated. I don't have the local Jazz broadcast channel, and it isn't worth the money to get a service that does have it above what we already utilize. But I am excited for some NBA playoffs. There have been a couple really entertaining games so far that I've watched at least a portion. (Anyone see that Knicks/Hawks game the other day?) I wish they played this hard all year long. It's hard to care about it when they don't, however. And yes, the league is changing. It's going to make some people very uncomfortable. But black pride statements and hip hop don't scare me, so it won't turn me off. 

Mix a little Tupac in with that Metallica and you'll be just fine. Doctor's orders...


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> But I am excited for some NBA playoffs.


yeah. Me too.


Here's another gripe: NBA players are pansies.
Evidence: Lebron James "shaken up after hard foul". "He went down to the floor in apparent pain".
Watch it here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396581497281269764
[Sarcasm Font] _Ouch! That really looked like it hurt. How could he have continued after that?_ [/Sarcasm Font]

Comparison: Olivia Taylor, Bear River High School center fielder, flies over the fence to rob a home run. "yeah, my back does hurt a bit from that catch," Taylor told the Standard-Examiner following the game. "I think I just landed flat on my back, I'm not sure, I'd have to rewatch it." 
Huh -- her reaction after the catch didn't show any sort of pain to me.
Watch it here: Utah high school softball star makes incredible catch by jumping over fence during state championship
#2 on Top Ten ESPN:

She's tougher than Lebron.


----------



## 3arabians

PBH said:


> A historical regular season for the Utah Jazz. Best ever in history of the franchise.)


I don’t know about that. 1997s 64-18 record is statistically much better. People forget the 97 jazz went 31-4 after the allstar break which is insane good. A lot of hype came from that they were the overall number one seed this year for the first time that made it historical but I am still placing an asterisk by it for being a shorter season. Not to mention they went to the finals in 97. 

Lebron bugs me more than any professional athlete I have ever seen on and off the court. He is a tick and Dennis Rodman is a butterfly. Seriously, he bugs me that much! I am sad to see Donovan follow in Lebrons footsteps as far as the BLM stuff goes. But, at the end of the day I’m bias with Donavan. He is our superstar and I want nothing else more than to see him succeed on the court as a jazz fan. 

I grew up a basketball nut and love watching the game, so as much as I don’t like all the politics the nba has become involved in and the China relationship and all that, I still look forward to watching all the games in the playoffs. For the folks that are done with the jazz/nba and swear to never watch another game, I get it, do you and I’ll do me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

I've thought a lot recently about the fallout with these players trying to be activists for causes which they believe. They get a lot of "shut up and dribble" from people today. I wonder how history is going to look back on these times and those that are super critical of athletes speaking out? It certainly is not the first time athletes have used their voices for these exact same causes. The last 80-90 years is full of black athletes speaking out on these exact same issues. A couple large examples: 

I've got to think that people were not pleased when the best basketball player on the planet organized a boycott of the 1968 Olympics because of the mistreatment of black people in our country. I wasn't around for that, but I can imagine that "American pride" around the country among most basketball fans was not swelling over that controversial decision and activism. However, by the time I was watching Kareem as a young kid, nobody talked about that and revered him as one of the all time greats. 

Around that same time, a guy named Muhammed Ali refused to go to Vietnam, specifically saying he wasn't going to go fight for what he considered an oppressor wanting to oppress other brown people around the world just like they did back here at home. We all know what happened to him at the time, and I'm sure many Americans hated him more than anyone hates LeBron, Mitchell, or any other outspoken athlete of today. These guys are pretty darn tame compared to Ali and his public statements. Yet one of the most powerful moments I can remember from any Olympics of my lifetime is Ali lighting the torch in Atlanta in 1996 as a pure American hero. People look back on his statements today and think, "Well, he was kind of right." 

People don't love disruption to any system. Even if that system is broken or even really bad, status quo is so much more comfortable. If these guys want to use their platform to push causes they believe in, I say do it. I'm guessing in 20 years people will be talking about their greatness on the basketball court and their public advocacy in a positive way, not the vitriol we see against it today. I don't care how they dress, who they vote for, or what they say off the court. I like watching sports, so I'll keep doing it.


----------



## Critter

The decisions that Kareem and Ali made were personal decisions and I didn't support them at the time but later I admired Ali for what he went through and did. I don't even remember a thing about Kareem at the time. They didn't make a statement and then continue on with what they were doing like nothing happened. Although Kareem did continue to play basket ball and didn't sit out any games, he just made a statement and didn't even try out for the Olympic team. Ali on the other hand made a statement and followed it up by sticking to it. He was stripped of his title and banned from his sport along with being convicted of draft evasion and sentenced and fined. A long ways away from what Kareem did. There was also a protest of sorts by Tommie Smith and John Carlos after running the 200 meters with their up-clench fist and black gloves during the National Anthem .

Fast forward to today's world of BLM and other activation, would Labron or even Mitchel stand their ground and either quit or sit out a year or two of basketball to push their addenda forward? Or do they just want to make a statement, keep playing and accepting their multi million dollar paychecks every year?

When it comes down to it if I go to a game no matter what it is I don't want to watch players protesting or trying to make a show of what they want to represent outside of the game. If they want to do it on their own time then by all means head out onto the street and join the marches or protest but not inside of the stadiums or ball fields when they have paying fans who want to just watch a ballgame.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> I hate to say this. Really, I do. I'm a fan. But, my goodness....
> 
> .....Donovan Mitchell's outfit last night was bad. Not just ugly, but nearing the point of turning fans off. Not the message of supporting historically black colleges, but rather the message of "_hey, look at me. I now have a platform. I'm wearing fashionable glasses and a custom leather jacket to help support my cause. And my collar is up. And, oh, by the way - I can still go talk to the referees because I'm now a superstar, even though I'm in my street clothes. And, if you taunt my players, I'll push you. I'm tough_."
> 
> Total Lebron wannabe last night. I wish it weren't so.
> 
> It's games like this one that you really wish that we still had someone like Jae Crowder. I mean, we had Kyle Anderson, Dillon Brooks, and Desmond Bane bullying us! As in, they took our sandwich and ate it. They then walked off with our girlfriends!! And we've never heard their names mentioned before last night.
> 
> I'm praying that he puts the clothing line back in the closet and pulls out his uniform on Wednesday. Ugh.
> 
> 
> (and, someone -- PLEASE -- take the ball out of Bojan's hands.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (and let's just keep Niang a nice comfy spot on the bench)


Do yall really wonder why guys don't like playing in Utah or Utah has it's "racist" label? Read this post.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

taxidermist said:


> .....Donovan Mitchell's outfit last night was bad. Not just ugly, but nearing the point of turning fans off. Not the message of supporting historically black colleges, but rather the message of "_hey, look at me. I now have a platform. I'm wearing fashionable glasses and a custom leather jacket to help support my cause. And my collar is up. And, oh, by the way - I can still go talk to the referees because I'm now a superstar, even though I'm in my street clothes. And, if you taunt my players, I'll push you. I'm tough_."
> 
> That was pathetic! I thought he was a great roll model for the jazz and had more to him than that. He's just another "PUNK" as far as I'm concerned now.
> 
> A championship caliber team doesn't play the way the "Spazz" did last night. If they are able to squeak past the Grizz, they will not make it past the second round of the playoffs. I see the Suns going all the way to the finals.


He is a great role model. You're just fragile on people who don't agree with your politics.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

3arabians said:


> I don’t know about that. 1997s 64-18 record is statistically much better. People forget the 97 jazz went 31-4 after the allstar break which is insane good. A lot of hype came from that they were the overall number one seed this year for the first time that made it historical but I am still placing an asterisk by it for being a shorter season. Not to mention they went to the finals in 97.
> 
> Lebron bugs me more than any professional athlete I have ever seen on and off the court. He is a tick and Dennis Rodman is a butterfly. Seriously, he bugs me that much! I am sad to see Donovan follow in Lebrons footsteps as far as the BLM stuff goes. But, at the end of the day I’m bias with Donavan. He is our superstar and I want nothing else more than to see him succeed on the court as a jazz fan.
> 
> I grew up a basketball nut and love watching the game, so as much as I don’t like all the politics the nba has become involved in and the China relationship and all that, I still look forward to watching all the games in the playoffs. For the folks that are done with the jazz/nba and swear to never watch another game, I get it, do you and I’ll do me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's no surprise a state that is 2% black is this uncomfortable with a black young star who speaks his mind.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

I think some of your reactions to Donovan's outfit, are a perfect example of why Utah has the label it does with people. These comments are ignorant, and show a discomfort from plenty of you with him using his platform to say whatever he wants to say. When people say the Jazz fanbase is the most racist in the NBA and no one wants to play there, this is what they mean. It's an even worse look when hes done the things hes done. A week ago he was at a local high school baseball game and took time to take pictures with plenty of kids. Apparently he is quite upset that the Jazz medical staff didn't let him play game one, and there seems to be a major disconnect between Donovans team of people, and the Jazz staff at the moment. His staff cleared him to play, the Jazz staff essentially stopped him from playing game 1 because they wanted to power trip and say "that's our decision". Not the smartest move by the team in SLC, so no worries, many of you might not have to worry about him making you uncomfortable by talking about race in a state that's 2% black for too long. For a long time it took me some time to get it, but with some of the opinions laid out in this thread over the way he dressed......you know, I've really began to get it.

PS, if you are to remain a Jazz fan I'd get used to it, because no black young star is gonna be a fan of Utah politics, or the way people view racial issues in the state.


----------



## 3arabians

Vanilla said:


> I've thought a lot recently about the fallout with these players trying to be activists for causes which they believe. They get a lot of "shut up and dribble" from people today. I wonder how history is going to look back on these times and those that are super critical of athletes speaking out? It certainly is not the first time athletes have used their voices for these exact same causes. The last 80-90 years is full of black athletes speaking out on these exact same issues. A couple large examples:
> 
> I've got to think that people were not pleased when the best basketball player on the planet organized a boycott of the 1968 Olympics because of the mistreatment of black people in our country. I wasn't around for that, but I can imagine that "American pride" around the country among most basketball fans was not swelling over that controversial decision and activism. However, by the time I was watching Kareem as a young kid, nobody talked about that and revered him as one of the all time greats.
> 
> Around that same time, a guy named Muhammed Ali refused to go to Vietnam, specifically saying he wasn't going to go fight for what he considered an oppressor wanting to oppress other brown people around the world just like they did back here at home. We all know what happened to him at the time, and I'm sure many Americans hated him more than anyone hates LeBron, Mitchell, or any other outspoken athlete of today. These guys are pretty darn tame compared to Ali and his public statements. Yet one of the most powerful moments I can remember from any Olympics of my lifetime is Ali lighting the torch in Atlanta in 1996 as a pure American hero. People look back on his statements today and think, "Well, he was kind of right."
> 
> People don't love disruption to any system. Even if that system is broken or even really bad, status quo is so much more comfortable. If these guys want to use their platform to push causes they believe in, I say do it. I'm guessing in 20 years people will be talking about their greatness on the basketball court and their public advocacy in a positive way, not the vitriol we see against it today. I don't care how they dress, who they vote for, or what they say off the court. I like watching sports, so I'll keep doing it.


I agree. To be fair, I don’t have a problem with Lebron or Donovan or any pro using their platform to voice things they care about. This is America after all. I just wish Lebron wasn’t SUCH a drama queen. The man is such a baby!! 

But hey! This thread is about the Jazz. Go jazz! And YES I did see that hawks knicks game! Awesome! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

3arabians said:


> I agree. To be fair, I don’t have a problem with Lebron or Donovan or any pro using their platform to voice things they care about. This is America after all. I just wish Lebron wasn’t SUCH a drama queen. The man is such a baby!!
> 
> But hey! This thread is about the Jazz. Go jazz! And YES I did see that hawks knicks game! Awesome!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree Lebron is his own world for sure. Donovans just done a lot over the few years, and I don't think he deserves backlash over the way he dresses or what his views or opinions are, especially on racial issues. And funny you mention that, because I think the Knicks is exactly where he ends up if the tension keeps building.


----------



## 3arabians

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I agree Lebron is his own world for sure. Donovans just done a lot over the few years, and I don't think he deserves backlash over the way he dresses or what his views or opinions are, especially on racial issues. And funny you mention that, because I think the Knicks is exactly where he ends up if the tension keeps building.


I love Donovan I think he’s awesome. I did take some offense when he made his “Utah has a stigma of racism” comment last year. I thought that was a bit unfair as racism is a global issue and is much bigger than Utah. I thought “on no Lebron jr” He did explain himself well later on though so is forgiven. Clothing? Ya whatever, it provides good comedy relief. Conley dresses really funny  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomElk16

#1DEER 1-I said:


> If you watched him the past couple games, I think it’s quite clear he’s just fine. The NBA and Lebron like story lines. This one writes “The Lakers faced with the play in tournament, Lebron coming off the worst injury of his career, beat the number 1 seed in the western conference in the 1st round”. Can’t stress this enough, the NBA is not letting it’s biggest star, and biggest brand die in round 1 to the team from Salt Lake City. It won’t happen, if the Jazz draw the Lakers in round one, that series is over before it begins and the league will make sure of it lol. I’m begging for the Lakers to win Wednesday night and secure the 7 seed and get them out of the Jazz matchup.


Some of you tinfoil hat types are hilarious


----------



## Vanilla

Critter said:


> The decisions that Kareem and Ali made were personal decisions and I didn't support them at the time but later I admired Ali for what he went through and did. I don't even remember a thing about Kareem at the time. They didn't make a statement and then continue on with what they were doing like nothing happened. Although Kareem did continue to play basket ball and didn't sit out any games, he just made a statement and didn't even try out for the Olympic team. Ali on the other hand made a statement and followed it up by sticking to it. He was stripped of his title and banned from his sport along with being convicted of draft evasion and sentenced and fined. A long ways away from what Kareem did. There was also a protest of sorts by Tommie Smith and John Carlos after running the 200 meters with their up-clench fist and black gloves during the National Anthem .
> 
> Fast forward to today's world of BLM and other activation, would Labron or even Mitchel stand their ground and either quit or sit out a year or two of basketball to push their addenda forward? Or do they just want to make a statement, keep playing and accepting their multi million dollar paychecks every year?


Lew Alcindor sat out the Olympics. That was at the time a very big deal. Now that pros are playing not so much, even if it’s kind of a big deal still. But back then, this was a huge deal to not play, and specifically state the reason is he wouldn’t represent a country that treated black people so poorly.

And you saying they aren’t sacrificing anything shows how you don’t understand how this works. You don’t think this costs them on a personal level? There is a reason Jordan gave his famous answer to why he didn’t stand up or speak out on these same issues: “Republicans buy shoes too.” Speaking your mind on this level has real consequences when you upset people, and they still do it. Whether I agree with the political stances or everything they say, I tip my hat to them. It would be really easy to stay quiet, keep the establishment happy, and sell more jerseys and shoes. I’ve got to respect that. And I agree LeBron is a total drama queen, but he’s also probably one of the 2-3 most influential black people in this country, if not the world, and he isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

As for Donovan leaving over missing game 1, I don’t see it. If that’s the case, he was leaving anyway. But his deal has many more years, so don’t worry about it.

1 eye, you don’t have a clue. You yap about nobody wanting to come here just weeks after one of the most prominent black voices in sports with zero connection to this area just joined the ownership team. Take your Twitter conspiracies back there. You act like these issues are unique to Utah. Your own biases shine forth in this way to brightly. Get out of here with that crap.


----------



## middlefork

I like watching basket ball. The rest is theatrics. I'm not sure why anybody's opinion on other matters is given more weight. It doesn't matter weather they are athletes, politicians , movie stars or what ever.
Some of my best friends growing up in the 50's and 60's were "other races". So what? We had a great time. Some still are my friends. People are people. And yes, some turn into people who you thought you understand who become involved in positions you can't even imagine. If I disagree with them it doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. It just means I don't agree.

And go Jazz. I can only hope they do well.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

3arabians said:


> I love Donovan I think he’s awesome. I did take some offense when he made his “Utah has a stigma of racism” comment last year. I thought that was a bit unfair as racism is a global issue and is much bigger than Utah. I thought “on no Lebron jr” He did explain himself well later on though so is forgiven. Clothing? Ya whatever, it provides good comedy relief. Conley dresses really funny
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t think it’s unfair in regards to NBA circles. It’s a pretty prominent stigma about Utah. He knows it, and most people do. I’ve seen a current player on the roster like a post on Twitter that asked the question “what NBA team has the most racist fans?” Someone answered “Utah” and that is the response he liked. I think the Utah stigma is far worse than some of you are apparently aware. Why do you think Ryan Smith has brought in Dwyane Wade? Pushed racial justice? Pushed against all those ideas? He’s trying to change that stigma and brand the franchise as a more likable state, city, and franchise. Everything new ownership has done has been a calculated effort to change the stigma that exists. The scholarship program is another prime example. I get it’s not a fun conversation but the fanbase and that stigma are a huge hurtle for the franchise and even a lot of companies. Ryan Smith has even mentioned it’s difficult with Qualtrics to recruit the best talent here due to the stigmas that exist. In an interview on how much Ryan loves the state, he basically says, it can be awkward for people who come here and aren’t the prominent culture, and he wants to try and change that. Much like Larry Miller, Ryan Smith is a man who loves the state, and he’s trying his best to better it via one of the largest community outlets the state has.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

RandomElk16 said:


> Some of you tinfoil hat types are hilarious


The Suns are now dealing with that as we speak thankfully.


----------



## Vanilla

All the NBA circles 1eye runs around in! 🤣

Dwayne Wade might disagree with you. But what does he know? He definitely doesn’t have the NBA sources like ole 1eye!


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

middlefork said:


> I like watching basket ball. The rest is theatrics. I'm not sure why anybody's opinion on other matters is given more weight. It doesn't matter weather they are athletes, politicians , movie stars or what ever.
> Some of my best friends growing up in the 50's and 60's were "other races". So what? We had a great time. Some still are my friends. People are people. And yes, some turn into people who you thought you understand who become involved in positions you can't even imagine. If I disagree with them it doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. It just means I don't agree.
> 
> And go Jazz. I can only hope they do well.


I don’t think you have to agree with them, I think shouting them down is a really bad look that adds to a really bad stigma the fanbase 100% has. We can all have our opinions, but I’m going to say he knows a little more about what it feels like to be black than you or I, and we in this state could be a bit more welcoming and open minded to discussions on the issue. Something some could do to shake the racist stigma the fanbase has.......don’t get worked up over a “Historically Black Colleges and Universities” jacket he wears. Or a politician he supports you don’t. I’ve spoken to people who won’t even visit the state because of the racist stigma that exists in regards to it. To those commenting on how guys dress etc. He’s not there to wear what you want him to wear. He’s not there to advocate or hold the opinions you want him to hold.

Anyway, I would say tomorrow is very much a must win. Mitchell is quite upset at the moment over not being allowed to play game 1, and if the Jazz lose this series or this gets worse, it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if he asked for a trade or something this summer. If they win tomorrow, win the series and have a good playoffs everything will smooth over, but apparently things aren’t great after the medical staff told him he could play Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then told him he couldn’t Sunday afternoon. Your star player losing trust in your medical staff is never a good thing. As much as the Jazz front office is good at a lot of things, they’ve never had a star quite on Mitchell’s level and so long as this issues doesn’t get worse.....they’re going to have to learn to oblige to what he wants more than any other player that’s ever played here. It sucks, but the Jazz have fumbled a few issues with him at this point and in the NBA anymore, you can’t strong arm your star. He has the power to play where he wants, when he wants and the Jazz would do well to take note and start just simply giving him basically whatever he wants. You won’t get many marketable stars of his status to be okay with playing in SLC,Utah for very long, and I actually think he has wanted to make it work and be a difference maker in this community. But the Jazz for sure need to tread a bit more lightly in how they are handling situations. I wouldn’t even be opposed to the Jazz reworking the front office a bit to be more modern. I like Dennis Lindsey, but he’s the “sweep things under the rug and pretend it didn’t happen” kinda guy. You just can’t do that anymore.


----------



## 3arabians

Well since the Jazz don’t play until tomorrow I just gotta say, watching the mavs go up 2-0 on the clippers on their home court tonight sure was a fun watch. Luka is a beast! Looks like the clippers tanking tactic is backfiring big time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Catherder

Looks like the Suns have more to worry about Chris Paul's shoulder than the refs. 

Bummer to see this, but that series is far from over.


----------



## Vanilla

You don’t tank so you can pick your playoff opponent. That upsets the basketball gods. The Jazz know this. 

Hey 1eye, did you see the article on ESPN.com with Kyrie talking about Boston? I think you better go tweet at him and educate him about how Utah is way more racist! I don’t ever recall Utah’s greatest player ever calling it a “flea market for racism” like Bull Russell did Boston. You should go correct him too. You know your NBA circles know way better than any of these athletes do for sure! Go get em, champ.


----------



## PBH

1Eye. Ugh. Whatever. That outfit was atrocious. If that makes me a racist, so be it. What I really don't like is a player in street clothes approaching the officials during the game, getting in pushing matches with opposing players, and trying to intimidate opposing players from the sideline. Yep -- that's a real tough guy.

I get the competitive nature. I understand him being upset at not playing. The problem, as has been pointed out very clearly in the media and on this very thread, is that Donovan was mad. And because he was mad, he was out to draw some attention to himself - to say "hey, I wanted to play". He was out on the court complaining to officials. He was taunting from the bench. He was in the middle of those cute shoving matches. I think that it is very clear exactly what Donovan was doing during game 1: he was throwing a tantrum.

There is more to being a "professional" than simply being paid. Donovan was mad about not playing _because his employer felt he was not fit to play._ A true professional would not attempt to throw that back in the face of his employer. Act like a _professional_. Professionals are people that act with integrity. They treat others with respect. They take responsibility. They act in a way that promotes trust in their profession. It's "an ideology that asserts greater commitment to doing good work than to economic gain..." (Friedsen, 2001). 

Donovan needs to act like a professional. I hope he does so tonight. I'll be watching.


----------



## taxidermist

#1DEER 1-I said:


> He is a great role model. You're just fragile on people who don't agree with your politics.


Fragile Huh?? LOL If you knew me at all, you'd see there isn't a stamp attached to me the says "Fragile! Handle with care". Pro sports has become a absolute joke when it comes to players doing their thing! Yes!! I believe its not right and if I owned a pro team and any player didn't abide to contractual language.... I would fine them a boat load and extinguish the scourge of infestation.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> Donovan needs to act like a professional. I hope he does so tonight. I'll be watching.



I think you being a bit hard on him. If you asked him about his conduct on Sunday night, he would likely say some variation of him "being there for his team". Keep in mind that his role models and peers ALL have conducted themselves similarly in the recent past while injured or otherwise out and I'm sure he cares more about D Wades or Lebrons opinion of his actions than what you think. If it is such a problem then the league can do something about it in the next CBA, but I suspect those negotiations won't go far. Am I a fan of that behavior? Not really, but it also didn't move the needle much either. 

As for the outfit, yes it was atrocious, but also doesn't move the needle either for me. He has worn worse while injured. Hope I'm not a racist too. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

PBH said:


> 1Eye. Ugh. Whatever. That outfit was atrocious. If that makes me a racist, so be it. What I really don't like is a player in street clothes approaching the officials during the game, getting in pushing matches with opposing players, and trying to intimidate opposing players from the sideline. Yep -- that's a real tough guy.
> 
> I get the competitive nature. I understand him being upset at not playing. The problem, as has been pointed out very clearly in the media and on this very thread, is that Donovan was mad. And because he was mad, he was out to draw some attention to himself - to say "hey, I wanted to play". He was out on the court complaining to officials. He was taunting from the bench. He was in the middle of those cute shoving matches. I think that it is very clear exactly what Donovan was doing during game 1: he was throwing a tantrum.
> 
> There is more to being a "professional" than simply being paid. Donovan was mad about not playing _because his employer felt he was not fit to play._ A true professional would not attempt to throw that back in the face of his employer. Act like a _professional_. Professionals are people that act with integrity. They treat others with respect. They take responsibility. They act in a way that promotes trust in their profession. It's "an ideology that asserts greater commitment to doing good work than to economic gain..." (Friedsen, 2001).
> 
> Donovan needs to act like a professional. I hope he does so tonight. I'll be watching.


He’s 24 years old. I’m certain you were perfect then. And he has a stylist who chooses what he wears. Yes. He’s a star player and one of the most notable names in the NBA. His team, his brand, his endorsement companies WANT attention on him. A TNT game, yes, his team also wants his outfit drawing attention. See what I mean? The Jazz. The fans. You aren’t used to having a truly brand-able star player and you don’t know how to act. And I don’t blame him, the players on the court were very much letting Dillon Brooks punk them, someone should say something. It’s times like this i very much miss Jae Crowder. He’s was for sure throwing a bit of a fit for them pulling him at the last minute and telling him he couldn’t play, but let him get a little older and mature some more. At 24 I was an idiot and still am most of the time. And I didn’t have judgmental assholes like you watching my every move and critiquing even the way I dress. It’s none of your concern or business lol. Why are you worried about what another man chooses to wear?


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

taxidermist said:


> Fragile Huh?? LOL If you knew me at all, you'd see there isn't a stamp attached to me the says "Fragile! Handle with care". Pro sports has become a absolute joke when it comes to players doing their thing! Yes!! I believe its not right and if I owned a pro team and any player didn't abide to contractual language.... I would fine them a boat load and extinguish the scourge of infestation.


I think you don’t understand the word “fragile” in this context. This very reply shows it even more. And if you owned a pro sports team, you would not be successful, because literally no players that were worth anything would play for you. Get used to reality. It’s not going away. And the athletes are the product, they DO have the power. No one shows up to a game to see Ryan Smith.


----------



## CPAjeff

#1DEER 1-I said:


> And I didn’t have judgmental assholes like you watching my every move and critiquing even the way I dress. It’s none of your concern or business lol.


And . . . is it any of your business to critique any thought, view, or opinion that differs from yours?? Hello kettle, meet pot.

Dang, I would've thought ***holes would be a filtered word on here....


----------



## CPAjeff

On a happier note, it's pretty darn cool that Rudy gets another defensive player of the year award and Jordan Clarkston picked up the Sixth Man. A couple more for Rudy and he'll be #1 on the list.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

CPAjeff said:


> And . . . is it any of your business to critique any thought, view, or opinion that differs from yours?? Hello kettle, meet pot.
> 
> Dang, I would've thought ***holes would be a filtered word on here....


I’m simply giving some perspective as to the “why” question fans here always seem to ask in “why guys don’t want to play in Utah”. Well.....fans like you are a big reason “why”. Fans here have a star like they’ve never had before, and you’re worried about how he dresses or the fact he’s wearing a jacket supporting black colleges. That would be why the fanbase has its very well known reputation. Smith is trying to change that perception, I wish the fans would get a clue and come with. At the very least, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Yeah yeah I know pot meet kettle.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

CPAjeff said:


> On a happier note, it's pretty darn cool that Rudy gets another defensive player of the year award and Jordan Clarkston picked up the Sixth Man. A couple more for Rudy and he'll be #1 on the list.


That isn’t official yet is it? I mean I fully expect he wins it, I just haven’t seen that announced yet.


----------



## PBH

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Fans here have a star like they’ve never had before, and you’re worried about... the fact he’s wearing a jacket supporting black colleges.


Who said that they were worried about Donovan supporting historically black colleges?


I'm also curious who's upset that about players not wanting to come here. As far as I'm concerned, Utah has always done a very good job in getting high quality players.

I'm confused by what #1Deer is arguing about. But, what do I know. I'm just an ***hole.


----------



## CPAjeff

#1DEER 1-I said:


> That isn’t official yet is it? I mean I fully expect he wins it, I just haven’t seen that announced yet.


I haven't seen anything official yet either, but I would fully expect him to win it.


----------



## taxidermist

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I think you don’t understand the word “fragile” in this context. This very reply shows it even more. And if you owned a pro sports team, you would not be successful, because literally no players that were worth anything would play for you. Get used to reality. It’s not going away. And the athletes are the product, they DO have the power. No one shows up to a game to see Ryan Smith.


Like I said....You don't know me, and I sure hope our paths never cross!! Maybe you should change your name to "The Almighty" because your passing judgment to whom you don't know. Also, if you have anything to do with the RMEF please let me know! Because if you do, I will revoke my membership and the 2K a year I donate. I will not donate to any cause when members such as yourself act out in name-calling and administering judgment over an internet forum. IMO your a peach without stones. "I'll be your Huckleberry".


----------



## Vanilla

Guys, the only players the Jazz ever get are the ones stuck here by being drafted. No player wants to play for the Jazz. And a black player like Jordan Clarkson would NEVER sign here on his own volition!

This 🤡 !!!


----------



## Critter

Don't forget that when they even get a good white player that he will soon depart. 

Think about Gordon Haywood when he went to the greener pastures of Boston so to speak.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> Don't forget that when they even get a good white player that he will soon depart.
> 
> Think about Gordon Haywood when he went to the greener pastures of Boston so to speak.


In large part because they know they can’t get anyone else to play here. Since Deron Williams has aged and matured he has said multiple times that while in Utah he tried really hard to get guys to come here when he was on Team USA and stuff and there was no way it was happening. Deron still owns a home here. Deron doesn’t have a problem with Utah, in fact I follow him on IG and I’m pretty sure his girlfriend is from Utah, but the stigma that surrounds the state is damaging. Now Donovan has pull and is a more popular personality than Deron was nationally. I actually do believe he could get someone to play with him, but as a fanbase let’s be a touch more grateful.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

taxidermist said:


> Like I said....You don't know me, and I sure hope our paths never cross!! Maybe you should change your name to "The Almighty" because your passing judgment to whom you don't know. Also, if you have anything to do with the RMEF please let me know! Because if you do, I will revoke my membership and the 2K a year I donate. I will not donate to any cause when members such as yourself act out in name-calling and administering judgment over an internet forum. IMO your a peach without stones. "I'll be your Huckleberry".


Taxidermist, you don’t know me either, and rest your pretty little head, the only thing I have to do with RMEF is giving them my money because they’re a good conservation organization. Apparently you’re a cancel culture type? Always funny how the people who yell snowflake the loudest can’t handle some pushback what they’re comfortable believing. You’re taking it as condescending, it’s the truth. Utah has a stigma and it’s not a completely unfair stigma. Utah could be a far more welcoming place to people who aren’t like the predominant culture here. I live here and love the state, I would just like to see it get better for EVERYONE who wants to or does live here, not just for those who are conservative, white, and/or Mormon. Anyway, have a great night......back to basketball.


----------



## middlefork

I'll admit I'm at a disadvantage as I had no idea of all subliminal messaging going on with regards to all the players. And I'll be the first to admit I really don't pay any attention except to watching the games on occasion. I guess that make me a problem.

People have been bad mouthing the people of the state of Utah since shortly after the Mormons came rolling in. Such is life.

I just have to laugh at some of your comments. A guy from Sevier County ( what percentage population of "other than white?") lecturing others as to what they need to accept.

Carry on! The game starts shortly.


----------



## CPAjeff

Let’s be honest, the “reason” no ballers want to come to Utah is because of the lack of nightlife.


----------



## 3arabians

CPAjeff said:


> Let’s be honest, the “reason” no ballers want to come to Utah is because of the lack of nightlife.


Nailed it! Many winters ago when Booz and Deron played, the warriors complained the whole series about having to stay in Utah with no clubs to hop. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

How does 1eye explain Clarkson and Bogdonavic signing with the Jazz if his theory is correct? Both FA signings the last two years, both contender contributors, including the newest best 6th man in the entire league. Neither had to sign here, both had many other options if they wanted. On a lesser level, Joe Johnson signed here a handful of years ago. Yeah, Kevin Durant and LeBron James didn’t come to Utah. I guess that means we are all racist in Utah after all! (Except 1eye, of course) 

Don’t all the sudden start letting facts get in the way of your arguments now, 1eye.

Jazz doing exactly what they needed to do tonight. Send a message. Good work boys!


----------



## Catherder

Nice win tonight and I think we are in for a good series. Morant was amazing and we still won. I said 6 games earlier and still think that will be the case.


----------



## Vanilla

I’ll stick with my original prediction: Jazz in 5.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

3arabians said:


> Nailed it! Many winters ago when Booz and Deron played, the warriors complained the whole series about having to stay in Utah with no clubs to hop.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To some sure, but not to everyone. With the money and pampering now, it’s not much trouble get on a private jet and go to Vegas or Los Angeles whenever they please quite honestly.




middlefork said:


> I'll admit I'm at a disadvantage as I had no idea of all subliminal messaging going on with regards to all the players. And I'll be the first to admit I really don't pay any attention except to watching the games on occasion. I guess that make me a problem.
> 
> People have been bad mouthing the people of the state of Utah since shortly after the Mormons came rolling in. Such is life.
> 
> I just have to laugh at some of your comments. A guy from Sevier County ( what percentage population of "other than white?") lecturing others as to what they need to accept.
> 
> Carry on! The game starts shortly.


I’ve read and listened to stories in regards to it, and I guess I’m willing to listen to it with an open mind. And yes I agree there is a Utah hate element in it, but there’s legitimacy to some of it too. We can certainly be better and as is proven by plenty of first hand accounts. It’s beyond a basketball team, it’s just a good outlet for the discussion.

Anyway. Good game, the team has a period every game they seem to let off the gas. Tonight the 3rd quarter, they let way off. Rudy really saved them defensively coming back in. Donovan’s return was great...and he looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t have been sat game 1 and they’d be at 2-0 at the moment. I think they can win this series in 5 or 6, but it’s going to be a pretty good fight. Ja Morant is very good, and Brooks is an annoyance that won’t go away.


----------



## PBH

Look - my only complaint about last night's game is this:

When you have Mitchell, Conley, Clarkson, Gobert and Niang on the court -- WHY IN THE HELL IS Niang bringing the ball up, then driving into the lane and forcing a crappy shot??!! Ugh! Niang drives me crazy! (Althouth, I will admit that I was happy to see someone finally be tough and make sure Morant felt something going into the lane...)

#1Eye -- One has to wonder, when Deron Williams was trying to convince other players to come play, whether the issue truly was a "Utah" issue vs. a "Deron Williams" issue. I mean, the guy ran Jerry Sloan off! Seriously. I don't think the problem was the demographics or prejudices of Utahns. I think the problem was much more simple: nobody wanted to play with Williams.

As for nightlight in Utah, I have one word: Bunny bashing.


----------



## Vanilla

I've given three recent examples of people that have signed here, even though the assertion is that nobody wants to play in Utah. I've yet to see a single example provided that didn't come here because Utah was racist. I'll wait though...


----------



## PBH

And, in other NBA news:



Russell Westbrook said:


> I really take this very personal. I am tired of the same thing. To me, I don't really see nothing changing. It just gets worse.


Sometimes, if you want to see change you only need to look in the mirror. I don't think it's coincidence that these types of situations continue to happen to Westbrook.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> And, in other NBA news:
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, if you want to see change you only need to look in the mirror. I don't think it's coincidence that these types of situations continue to happen to Westbrook.


Not justifying the fan behavior, because that dude definitely deserves to be punched in his face. That said, Russ and the NBA probably need to ask why these things keep happening to him and not to others if they really are going to “do something” about this. I hope that fan enjoyed his last live NBA game ever, though.

All that said, is anyone surprised a Philly fan did something like this? Philly sports fans are the absolute WORST! Those degenerates all should be locked up just for being Philly fans.


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> All that said, is anyone surprised a Philly fan did something like this? Philly sports fans are the absolute WORST! Those degenerates all should be locked up just for being Philly fans.


Maybe they should be subjected to harangues from overly "woke" Utahns?


----------



## taxidermist

BIG name players wont come to Utah not only because of the lack of "nightlife" of course, other than "Bunny Bashing" (which I think is an absolute riot) But Utah is the smallest NBA franchise. The James's, Durant's and so many more play for the $$$$ Utah cant afford to pay 25% of the total player salaries to one man. They also look at teams that will give them a shot at the title. Utah has been one time to the big show, and haven't made it that far in the playoffs over 20 years.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> All that said, is anyone surprised a Philly fan did something like this? Philly sports fans are the absolute WORST! Those degenerates all should be locked up just for being Philly fans.



What. Just. Happened?

FWIW -- philly fans enjoy having food tossed at them. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Vanilla

Taxidermist, it isn’t the NBA contract salaries the Jazz can’t pay. They can absolutely pay what others are paying in salary. With the NBA’s max it helps with that. In fact, both Donovan and Rudy just signed two of the top 10 largest contracts in NBA history.

Size of market, at least with Ryan Smith as owner, is really an issue for the ancillary payouts they can get outside of their contracts. Jersey sales, endorsements, etc. If Donovan Mitchell played in NY his jersey would sell five times, if not even way more than that, than it does in Utah. That is money in Donovan’s pocket. An endorsement in LA is worth more than it is in SLC. These are things that can never be controlled, they are population driven, and Utah will always have a disadvantage in that area. The reason why we don’t have 15 million people in SLC has to be because of Utah’s well known reputation in NBA circles of being racist, though.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> The reason why we don’t have 15 million people in SLC has to be because of Utah’s well known reputation in NBA circles of being racist, though.



so, with Utah's recent surge in growth, the question becomes: Are we gaining more racists because of that reputation?


hmmmmm


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> so, with Utah's recent surge in growth, the question becomes: Are we gaining more racists because of that reputation?


I thought all our growth was from d*&# liburls coming here from California? They wouldn't be racist, would they?


----------



## taxidermist

Vanilla, thanks for reminding me of the endorsement factor when it comes to choosing a team. I had forgot all about that side of the coin. 

I'll get a ration of crap for this statement.....I am a NY Yankees fan, always have and will be. I loved seeing "Billy Ball" when Billy Marten was the Skipper. I had a baseball my Uncle gave me that was autographed by the 1978 team. I say *HAD* because my Sons dog thought he needed it more than my Son. Thurman Munson, Reggie Jackson were just a few of the greats that had signed the ball. Good thing I love animals and my kids!!


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

And in other NBA news, 3 more fans banned at the Jazz arena for harassing Ja Morants family last night. It’s wild. Do y’all not think Ja and other players like Donovan aren’t friends off the court? How do fans go to games and act like complete idiots? Watch what you say, you never know who’s sitting next to you. It’s a basketball game. Let’s stop harassing dudes family maybe? This is more detailed from writers of the team. The people they were harassing were Ja’s parents.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398061586519105537


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

taxidermist said:


> BIG name players wont come to Utah not only because of the lack of "nightlife" of course, other than "Bunny Bashing" (which I think is an absolute riot) But Utah is the smallest NBA franchise. The James's, Durant's and so many more play for the $$$$ Utah cant afford to pay 25% of the total player salaries to one man. They also look at teams that will give them a shot at the title. Utah has been one time to the big show, and haven't made it that far in the playoffs over 20 years.


They are literally paying Donovan 25% and Rudy 30% of the salary cap for the foreseeable future.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398080547784560640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398077584362065922
Hmmmmm


----------



## DIRTYS6X6

This feels just like waiting for draw results. So much anticipation and excitement then a big let down. Hopefully the Jazz produce at the end just like the feeling to have a OIL tag.
Good luck to the Jazz on a championship and my wife on a moose.


----------



## Vanilla

This was the only incident in the NBA where a fan has been banned today! Probably the only one in a decade. Stupid Utah!

Wait...


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> This was the only incident in the NBA where a fan has been banned today! Probably the only one in a decade. Stupid Utah!
> 
> Wait...


Utah has had to ban more fans in the past 3 years than any other franchise. Like I said, you can keep avoiding the issue, but it exists in a more prominent way than some of you are willing to admit. First step in solving any problem is admitting there is one. And oh boy there is one.


----------



## middlefork

Gotta love twitter LOL

Isn't that what got the big bad orange man defeated?

It used to be trash talking. Will some take it too far? Absolutely. Not only in Utah.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

middlefork said:


> Gotta love twitter LOL
> 
> Isn't that what got the big bad orange man defeated?
> 
> It used to be trash talking. Will some take it too far? Absolutely. Not only in Utah.


Racism, isn’t trash talk, full stop. And every issue had here, ends up involving it. Keep ignoring it though, or brushing it off. That should help.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Also, to be clear here, Ja is a good guy. It’s not on him to say this, but he made it clear it was just those 3 and plenty of others were cool fans. Racism is not trash talk, and if someone talked to your mother that way, you’d have an issue with them as well.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398089981525172228


----------



## 3arabians

Vanilla said:


> This was the only incident in the NBA where a fan has been banned today! Probably the only one in a decade. Stupid Utah!
> 
> Wait...


Lol! I **** near choked on my Lakers vs Suns pregame pizza! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

When he inevitably asks for a trade at some point, just remember the assholes who couldn’t help but be racist at games.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398097698893426691


----------



## Vanilla

Are you sure the Jazz have banned more fans than any other franchise? Prove that claim, please. I’ll wait.

Also, from what I’ve read, the incident with Morant’s family was not racially involved. Very inappropriate. Very worthy to get the boot. But not racial, from what has been reported. (At least what I’ve seen.)

Here is my biggest beef, 1eye. There is nothing you’d like more than to see Mitchell demand a trade. You hate Utah so badly that this would make you incredibly happy so your tender feelings towards Utah can someone how get validated. This is a YOU issue more than anything else. Your own implicit biases won’t let you see it, but it’s true. Build a bridge and get over yourself. Nothing you post on this topic has factual backing. You’ve provided exactly ZERO factual situations to support any of your claims.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> Are you sure the Jazz have banned more fans than any other franchise? Prove that claim, please. I’ll wait.
> 
> Also, from what I’ve read, the incident with Morant’s family was not racially involved. Very inappropriate. Very worthy to get the boot. But not racial, from what has been reported. (At least what I’ve seen.)
> 
> Here is my biggest beef, 1eye. There is nothing you’d like more than to see Mitchell demand a trade. You hate Utah so badly that this would make you incredibly happy so your tender feelings towards Utah can someone how get validated. This is a YOU issue more than anything else. Your own implicit biases won’t let you see it, but it’s true. Build a bridge and get over yourself. Nothing you post on this topic has factual backing. You’ve provided exactly ZERO factual situations to support any of your claims.


The “I’ll put a quarter in your back and watch you dance boy” is racially charged. Calling a black man “boy” is a racially charged term and it’s this type of ignorance in Utah I’m talking about. Some of you don’t even realize what racially charged language is....probably because the population in this state is 2% black.

Also Vanilla, I love this state, I just know the issues I see whether out of overt racism or ignorance. There is TOO MUCH OF IT. I love this state and I think it’s really unfortunate that the fans here are going to chase off not only the first real marketable star the franchise has ever had, but also an amazing human being that embraced the state from day 1, has been very involved, and has been nothing but good to the fans that continue to embarrass him.

Here’s the only black reporter covering the Jazz, if you don’t believe calling a grown black man “boy” is racially offensive, well, you’ve never taken a moment to ask someone or understand why it is.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398099104593448960
On the contrary Vanilla, I actually would just like to see the state become a better place where people of all backgrounds can feel comfortable.

Factual information? There’s story after story right in front of you.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

“When it comes to racially abusive fans, the NBA has a Utah problem”



“This is 2019. Not the 1960s. NBA players, whatever their salaries, do not sign up to play before a bigoted mob. This isn’t even Westbrook’s first spectator altercation in Utah after last year’s playoffs, when a Jazz fan repeatedly called him “boy”, leaving little question as to what he meant. Plenty of NBA players came to Westbrook’s defense then just as they did after Monday’s incident. Because they know Utah!

Now of course not every Jazz fan falls into this category. But make no mistake: this is the reputation the city has earned among the players around the league. It didn’t come out of nowhere. And that such a poorly kept secret has been tolerated for decades is borderline reckless”









When it comes to racially abusive fans, the NBA has a Utah problem


Etan Thomas: I experienced abuse from fans in every arena during my nine NBA seasons. But as Russell Westbrook has learned, Utah is a different level




www.theguardian.com





This isn’t a secret Vanilla, player after player will account it.


----------



## Vanilla

I find it hilarious you’re going to try and lecture me on this topic. You are such a clown! You seriously have no clue who you are talking to or the experiences of those people. Like I said, build a bridge and get over yourself. You’re a clown. Prove the claim you made on banned fans. Or is that another baseless shot you throw out in your own bigotry and bias?

Yes, there are racial undertones to calling a black man boy. That is not what I’d seen earlier today. I saw the “shut the (bleep) up (bleep)” to his mom dialogue and mention of “other inappropriate” comments that were called out by fans around them that alerted security. Such racists, all those people! I can’t believe how much worse of a problem this is than EVERY other NBA city like 1eye claims. (Without supporting it)


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> I find it hilarious you’re going to try and lecture me on this topic. You are such a clown! You seriously have no clue who you are talking to or the experiences of those people. Like I said, build a bridge and get over yourself. You’re a clown. Prove the claim you made on banned fans. Or is that another baseless shot you throw out in your own bigotry and bias?
> 
> Yes, there are racial undertones to calling a black man boy. That is not what I’d seen earlier today. I saw the “shut the (bleep) up (bleep)” to his mom dialogue and mention of “other inappropriate” comments that were called out by fans around them that alerted security. Such racists, all those people! I can’t believe how much worse of a problem this is than EVERY other NBA city like 1eye claims. (Without supporting it)


Well, most the players who actually play in every one of the arenas will say Utah and Boston are the most racist places they’ve played. If you’d like actual comments from a bunch they’re pretty easy to find. And I posted the report right above that that has the “boy” quote in the tweet so I assumed you saw it sorry.

Also, banned fans in regards to racially charged attacks? You can find each and every ban handed out via ESPN stories.


----------



## Critter

Ok, folks I'm putting my mod hat on. 

Lets get back to basketball. So far the post have gotten a little off of the subject but it has been fairly respectful but what has been going on isn't about the subject matter of the Jazz and basketball.


----------



## taxidermist

I agree with Critter! There is so much I could add to this "fight" but its not the place or topic. Besides, I don't want to fight. I have busted up fingers from that when I was in my 20's. 

SO...… Saturdays game I'm calling the Jazz by 3 points, 93-90 What say Yee?


----------



## Vanilla

I’ll take the over on 3.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Idk guys seems like a real problem that does relate to our states basketball team in relation to it’s fans. Enjoy a game. Enjoy the privilege of having a major professional sports franchise in our city. And turn in fans for disgusting, racist behavior at games. I’ll leave it be until the next stuff surfaces, but it’s a problem. It’s a problem that if you follow the NBA closely has a lot more come out about Utah than other arenas. I could care less if there are idiots in every arena. That’s an excuse. We, this state, the fanbase, needs to be better. I get it’s not as fun of a conversation as basketball, but players and their families don’t deserve to be treated like that. And if you’re not turning someone in for bad behavior you’re a part of the problem. The Jazz literally have a security text line you can turn in trashy behavior at. I’m not saying anyone here wouldn’t, but the conversation is relevant when there’s racist fan headlines every time we have a playoff series when fans attend lately.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398320826538205185
And to anyone who does attend games, heres the number you can text security at if you hear or see anything out of line. Use it. 801-901-8111 

Here is where its found on the Jazz website for verification




__





NBA & Utah Jazz Fan Code of Conduct


*/




www.nba.com


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

In other really sad Jazz news. Mark Eaton has passed away at age 64, RIP.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398672626076241920


----------



## taxidermist

#1DEER 1-I said:


> In other really sad Jazz news. Mark Eaton has passed away at age 64, RIP.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398672626076241920


No frickin way!!! Mark was a great guy on and off the court. I met him a number of times and he always was a professional. Sad day for sure.


----------



## Catherder

Whew, it wasn't easy. Still a nice win with all the distractions. 

Maybe they won this one for the big fella. (Eaton)


----------



## Critter

I was wondering if they were going to make it through the third and fourth quarters, but they got it done. 

As I mentioned earlier the Grizzly's are one of the teams that they had a hard time with in 2 out of 3 games. I predict that it will get real interesting before it is finished.


----------



## Vanilla

That last game was interesting for a total of about 10 minutes. The Jazz completely controlled it throughout. Memphis led only 1 time the entire game and it was for what, 30 seconds?

The NBA is a game of runs. Memphis made one run, the Jazz answered. I suspect the rest of the series will continue to look like this. I’d be really surprised if this gets to game 6. Memphis could come out like gangbusters and pull off an upset in game 4, but I still think Jazz win in 5.


----------



## taxidermist

I'm thinking the series will be 2-2 after tonight's game.


----------



## Vanilla

Jazz go up 3-1 with a 10+ point win.


----------



## taxidermist

Vanilla said:


> That last game was interesting for a total of about 10 minutes. The Jazz completely controlled it throughout. Memphis led only 1 time the entire game and it was for what, 30 seconds?
> 
> The NBA is a game of runs. Memphis made one run, the Jazz answered. I suspect the rest of the series will continue to look like this. I’d be really surprised if this gets to game 6. Memphis could come out like gangbusters and pull off an upset in game 4, but I still think Jazz win in 5.


I'll take that 5 point odds. I'll bet you a OIL tag?

Ya, like I'll ever draw one of those to place on the table. 


Vanilla said:


> Jazz go up 3-1 with a 10+ point win.





Vanilla said:


> Jazz go up 3-1 with a 10+ point win.





Vanilla said:


> Jazz go up 3-1 with a 10+ point win.


I hope your right! Wait a minute...….. I remember I wasn't a Jazz Fan anymore.  Oh well, I'll still wish them to win.


----------



## Vanilla

Memphis gave the Jazz their absolute best shot, in a must win game, and still came up short. It was closer than I thought it would be, but a win is a win.

Outside of an unforeseen absence of one of the stars like game 1, I don’t see how Memphis can survive beyond Wednesday.


----------



## 3arabians

Vanilla said:


> Memphis gave the Jazz their absolute best shot, in a must win game, and still came up short. It was closer than I thought it would be, but a win is a win.
> 
> Outside of an unforeseen absence of one of the stars like game 1, I don’t see how Memphis can survive beyond Wednesday.


Yup! 

It was really looking like you were going nail the final difference until Jackson hit that 3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PBH

Niang. Ugh.

Twice during last night's game when Niang entered he immediately started doing some stretches. The first time was just an inbound play, and Niang was doing some kind of "squat" stretch. The next time was while someone was shooting free throws -- he was doing some really quick hamstring stretches (don't pull a hammy!).

Since then, I can't get Will Ferrell out of my head. I have to wonder if Will Ferrell and Georges Niang are one and the same? Has anyone ever seen the two together? I doubt it. I think they are the same person.


Georges Niang morning routine:


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> Niang. Ugh.
> 
> Twice during last night's game when Niang entered he immediately started doing some stretches. The first time was just an inbound play, and Niang was doing some kind of "squat" stretch. The next time was while someone was shooting free throws -- he was doing some really quick hamstring stretches (don't pull a hammy!).
> 
> Since then, I can't get Will Ferrell out of my head. I have to wonder if Will Ferrell and Georges Niang are one and the same? Has anyone ever seen the two together? I doubt it. I think they are the same person.
> 
> 
> Georges Niang morning routine:



Welp, one thing that hasn't stretched was the Jazz lead during his 4th quarter minutes the last two games.  
Quite the opposite.


----------



## 2full

Don't think the series is over yet..... 
Remember being up 3 games to 1 last year with Denver ??
Remember how that turned out 😂


----------



## Vanilla

2full said:


> Don't think the series is over yet.....
> Remember being up 3 games to 1 last year with Denver ??
> Remember how that turned out 😂


Yep. And this is a new year, with a better team, playing under vastly different circumstances. Last year is last year, and it does not have a bearing on this year.

This series is over. Whether it ends Wednesday or Friday, Jazz advance. I was really hopeful for the Mavs next round, but Clipps look to be taking that series over. That’s a tough matchup for the Jazz, but to win a title, you’ll have to overcome tough matchups. Should be fun!


----------



## PBH

Georges Niang said:


> If you're not first, you're last!


----------



## taxidermist

Don't forget "2nd place is the 1st place looser".


----------



## bowgy

taxidermist said:


> Don't forget "2nd place is the 1st place looser".


Yeah. I have heard that they made up 2nd and 3rd place trophies so the losers wouldn't feel so bad.


----------



## Vanilla

bowgy said:


> Yeah. I have heard that they made up 2nd and 3rd place trophies so the losers wouldn't feel so bad.


Earliest documented history of the olympics was 776 B.C. I can’t find any information other than the winners received an olive branch wreath. No participation trophies back then! (At least that I know about.) 

First “modern” games were in 1896, but I just read that the first gold, silver, bronze medals were at 1904 Games. People have received 2nd and 3rd place “trophies” for longer than any of us have been alive.

Just felt like looking at history this afternoon. It’s interesting to look back on this stuff. Plus, I really like the olympics.

USA! USA! USA!🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲


----------



## taxidermist

Just felt like looking at history this afternoon. It’s interesting to look back on this stuff. Plus, I really like the olympics.

I like them too. But what will come of them if "Gender Identification" is allowed in the games. That's a very touchy discussion that I will not allow myself to become part of.


----------



## Vanilla

Game 5 feels about right. Good to dispatch that mouthy Grizzlies team. Would have been a sweep but for Mitchell’s late scratch in game 1.

Solid series from the Jazz. They totally controlled it. This team can make some real noise if they keep playing well.


----------



## 3arabians

Awesome game by the jazz. The outcome was never in question. That first quarter was amazing. I’m glad the Jazz can get some rest while the clips and mavs tangle with each other a bit more. I think the earliest we can play now is Sunday so it’s going to be a nice little break. 

It looks like Mitchell got banged up and ingles is fatigued or something. Ingles didn’t shoot well at all most the series. Ingles needs to figure it out for round 2. We are really going to need him on top of his game. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Catherder

They did look good tonight. They never let up until garbage time. 

Hopefully, Conley is OK.


----------



## Critter

The Jazz played up to their capability last night. 

The problem with a longer time between games is that a team can get hot and another can just cool off. Perhaps that is what happened to the Jazz in the first game with the Grizzly's, the Grizzly's came off of two must win games and came into Utah with a chip on their shoulder and dared the Jazz to knock it off. The Jazz had been just watching the other games. I'm not saying that they didn't practace but playing a game is a lot different than practace.


----------



## Vanilla

Donovan Mitchell getting unexpectedly scratched hours before the game is what happened in game 1. The team for weeks expected him to play, he was a full participant in practice leading up to it, and his teammates woke up from pre-game naps to find out online he was not playing. That was game 1. After game 1 there was very little time the Jazz were not in complete control of each game in the series.

Rust can be a factor for teams that have to wait. That is true. But rest can also be huge in a condensed season that had everyone a bit tired at the end.

Either way, no excuses. They need to get 4 more wins and advance. MC’s status is the elephant in the room right now. They need him if they’re going to fulfill their goals.


----------



## Critter

Who knows what the Jazz would of done in game 1 with Mitchel? They may of still lost but we will never know. 

I also find it a little bit interesting that on the ESPN web site there is very little mentioned about last nights Jazz win. There are just a couple of things that are mentioned about it but most is how good the Grizzly's will be in the future. For some reason they are keeping the Jazz out of the limelight. I know that SLC and Utah is a very small market but when you are number 1 in the NBA they should be following you.


----------



## PBH

Critter said:


> I also find it a little bit interesting that on the ESPN web site there is very little mentioned about last nights Jazz win. There are just a couple of things that are mentioned about it but most is how good the Grizzly's will be in the future. For some reason they are keeping the Jazz out of the limelight. I know that SLC and Utah is a very small market but when you are number 1 in the NBA they should be following you.


Nothing new here. There just isn't any interest nationally in the Utah Jazz. I think this is because once you get outside the inter-mountain west people have never heard of bunnie-bashing.


----------



## taxidermist

The only way the Jazz will gain respect and publicity throughout the Nation, is if they win it all and do it in a dominating fashion. Even that would only last until next season begins. 

Brooklyn is going to be tuff team to beat. I see them in the championship series.


----------



## 2full

I was watching one of the analyst show this am and they were showing odds for who would win the title. 
After the 1st round results so far and the injury reports that have hit so many teams........
The jazz were given the best odds to win it. 
(If course that's if Conley can play )
They talked about the great defense, offense, and coaching. I think they are maybe starting to get noticed.


----------



## Catherder

We are getting some props.









2020-21 NBA Predictions


FiveThirtyEight’s NBA forecast projects the winner of each game and predicts each team's chances of advancing to the playoffs and winning the NBA finals.




projects.fivethirtyeight.com





The Jazz winning their first round matchup just doesn't have as much nationwide sizzle as Lebron potentially getting bounced tonight or the Clippers imploding again.


----------



## Vanilla

Of course nobody knows for sure what would have happened, Critter. But we can deduce pretty well by watching the 4 games Mitchell played, and figure he is at least a 3 point difference in any given game. But yes, as logical as that is, it’s still an assumption.

And the Jazz not getting front page national news is nothing new. Never have, never will. That’s okay. Where they slot on ESPN’s website doesn’t impact their chances of winning.

I’m more worried about MC’s hamstring than I am about what ESPN has to say about the series ending.


----------



## Catherder

Looks like 1-eye doesn't have to worry anymore about conspiracy theories with respect to the Lakers. 

They're fishing now.  🎣


----------



## Critter

Catherder said:


> Looks like 1-eye doesn't have to worry anymore about conspiracy theories with respect to the Lakers.
> 
> They're fishing now.  🎣


But they had King James and Sir Davis they were suppose to win no matter what.🏆 Who does Phoenix have? Some guy named Chris Paul......who is this guy with two first names?


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

I really wanted Dallas to win tonight. Hopefully they can win Sunday and they’re the next opponent. The Jazz can beat the Clippers, but the Clippers are a far better team than the Mavericks when they’re engaged. Home court advantage will be big in a series via the Clippers. I’d really love to avoid them though. Go Mavs!


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> But they had King James and Sir Davis they were suppose to win no matter what.🏆 Who does Phoenix have? Some guy named Chris Paul......who is this guy with two first names?


If AD had been healthy they would have won that series....but by halftime last night you could see Lebron just flat out knew it was over. Even if they had won last night, there simply wasn’t enough there without AD to win or get very far.


----------



## Catherder

I think I would prefer Dallas too, but I'm glad that the Clips won tonight. 2 extra days for Conleys hammy to heal could be enormous, possibly more than who the Jazz play in the next round.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Catherder said:


> I think I would prefer Dallas too, but I'm glad that the Clips won tonight. 2 extra days for Conleys hammy to heal could be enormous, possibly more than who the Jazz play in the next round.


I would for sure have taken the Mavs guaranteed than possibly the Clippers. I think the Jazz can beat Dallas with no Conley. I think they’re going to need a healthy Mike to beat the Clippers and 2 days is good, but it won’t be the difference maker. I think the difference maker is going to be games will be every other day this next series, instead of 2 days between the first 2 games. His hamstring issue concerns me and I think facing Dallas you could mend it a little easier. We’ll see, I just hope the Mavs can pull it out Sunday.


----------



## Vanilla

Clippers only scare me if they get locked in. That’s something they haven’t shown the ability to consistently do. That team is a talent mismatch for the Jazz and everyone else, but they seem to be head cases. Not a head case like Luka, but head cases, nonetheless.

The Jazz need health over anything. They were the best team all year long, and you can’t just hope every other series is an upset making your road easier if you plan to win a title. I too would prefer Mavs, but as stated above by Catherder, health is more important than opponent. With soft tissue injuries, every day helps. And if Mike has to sit until next week, it’s nice to only miss one game instead of two or three.


----------



## 3arabians

Well now that it is the clippers on Tuesday I can say this is going to be fun series to watch. Vanilla, I honestly don’t think the clippers have any advantage on the jazz talent-wise whatsoever. Where is the talent mismatch? Leonard and George? Maybe, but that’s it. I would say our lineup 1-8 is far superior to the clips. 

As far as the fear of the clippers “locking in”. When has that happened? Jazz in 6. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Well, Clippers it is. A very toss up series. Hopefully Mike is okay and strong for at least 4 wins. They can for sure win this series but it’ll be more difficult.


----------



## Critter

Utah won the season series with LA and took had a 20 pt win in LA. The other was a 4 pt loss in LA and Utah won the game in SLC by 4. 

It should be interesting.


----------



## Vanilla

Regular season results are meaningless at this point. Especially for teams that actively didn’t try for large stretches. (If that’s even possible) 

Yes, PG and KL are the mismatch. Who do we have that can guard either? Our guard line is very small against this team. Kawhi is a talent mismatch for everyone. There are not 5 better players in the NBA, and whomever those players are that might be better, none of them are on the Jazz. PG is an enigma. I love that guys game, but he seems to shrink in big moments ever since he left Indy. You may recall some of his playoff battles against prime LeBron in Miami. If that PG showed up these days, Clipps would win it all. But it’s been a long time since we’ve seen that, and I wouldn’t bet on seeing it either.

Jazz need MC healthy. If so, I’ll pick Jazz in 6, maybe 7. The Jazz are a really good team. We’ll need them healthy, though.


----------



## Vanilla

Jazz are currently -161 betting odds favorites to win this series and have the 2nd best odds currently to win it all, only behind the Nets.

ESPN may not lead their front page with Jazz info, but the people that stand to gain or lose the most are bullish on the Jazz. Heck, even Ja’s dad is cheering for this totally racist state now! Now they just have to go do it. Anything short of a Finals appearance this year will be a major disappointment, IMO. This will be the best chance at a title maybe ever too. Can’t squander it.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Yes, PG and KL are the mismatch. Who do we have that can guard either?
> 
> PG is an enigma. I love that guys game, but he seems to shrink in big moments ever since he left Indy. ... If that PG showed up these days, Clipps would win it all.


PG? Is that Paul George you mean?

Pfft.

Matchup issue? Who do we have that can guard him?

1 word: Joe Ingles.







I'm excited for this. I really like seeing the Jazz get in the head of guys like PG. I just wish Carmelo played on the Clippers too!


----------



## Vanilla

Out of 16 ESPN "experts" (ha!!!), 9 are picking the Clippers and 7 are picking the Jazz. That's a pretty close split. Nobody predicted it would go less than 6 games.

(As a comparison to the other series: 13 of 16 picked Suns; 14 of 16 picked 76ers; 13 of 16 picked Nets) 

*My official prediction: Jazz in 6*

If Mike Conley is fully healthy and everyone stays healthy, I wouldn't be shocked if they got it done in 5. Screw the Clippers!


----------



## Critter

Just a observation on ESPN's analysis is that quite a few of they were predicating the Bucks to win last night and it ended up being a blow out by the Nets. 

I believe that the Jazz will do it but I'll hold my predictions until after the game tonight.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Critter said:


> Just a observation on ESPN's analysis is that quite a few of they were predicating the Bucks to win last night and it ended up being a blow out by the Nets.
> 
> I believe that the Jazz will do it but I'll hold my predictions until after the game tonight.


No Mike Conley tonight so that makes things more challenging. But not unexpected, and tonight is probably the best game for him to miss tbh.


----------



## Vanilla

Critter said:


> Just a observation on ESPN's analysis is that quite a few of they were predicating the Bucks to win last night and it ended up being a blow out by the Nets.
> 
> I believe that the Jazz will do it but I'll hold my predictions until after the game tonight.


Chicken!  

No predictions allowed after tip off in game 1.


----------



## Critter

Alright, Jazz in 7


----------



## 2full

Clippers in 6. 
I really would like to go with the jazz. 
But with Conley hurt (again) I don't see it happening. 
I just don't see them being able to control Leonard. They have no one to match up to him. 

I really hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Vanilla

You’re not wrong on KL. You hope that you can contain everyone else around him. Here’s to the Jazz doing just that!


----------



## 3arabians

Well this sucks so far! I know we’re missing Conley but we have contained their big 2 so far and are still down 10?? I am nervous!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## utahbigbull

Yup. UGLY 1st half against the clips. Hope they shake this “rust” or whatever funk they have going on so far.....Because they are OUT OF SYNCH!!


----------



## 3arabians

That was big! Hopefully we get Conley back next game and take control of the series but I was highly encouraged by our second half effort. If it wasn’t for such a disastrous 1st half this would have been a blow out without our starting point guard. Impressive 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vanilla

Oh ye of little faith...

Great win!


----------



## #1DEER 1-I

Yeah. Glad they won, but they’re gonna need Mike at some point during this series.


----------



## utahbigbull

Talk about a tale of two halves. Man that was a little rough on the ticker there!!


----------



## PBH

it wasn't either KL or PG (over-rated) that hurt us last night. Rather, it was a pair of players that none of us have heard of (relatively speaking): Kennard + Zubac.

Zubac is huge. He's a handful. He had Rudy's number. Good thing Favors stepped up (again) - the box score may not show it, but his rebounding and blocked shots really helped out. Rudy redeemed himself with that huge block at the end of the game, and he was good enough at the free throw line.

I just wish Niang would lose his "scorer" mentality. He needs to spot up and hit open 3's. He should not enter the game and immediately force something inside (blocked!) and then follow it up with a forced 3 (air ball!). We have options A, B, C, and D before option E (Niang) needs to force something.


----------



## Vanilla

No MC again tonight. That is big. The previous times he went out with the hammy this year he missed 14 days each time. If that played out the same this time that means he isn't back until game 5 at the earliest. 

I don't see the Jazz missing 21 straight shots again this year, so I'm going to pick the Jazz by 6-10 points tonight even without Conley. I've already started scouting our next round opponent. Those Phoenix Suns are playing some very good basketball recently.


----------



## Critter

Phoenix really played the Jazz very well this year. The Jazz went 0-3 with a loss at home against them. 

And yea I know that the regular season doesn't count anymore but when you have the team with the second best record in the NBA this year you need to sit up and pay attention to them. 

I'm hoping that the Jazz wake up and play for 4 quarters instead of just one or two. I'll go Jazz by 15.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> No MC again tonight. That is big.


No surprise. We are up 1-0. We won game 1 after missing 21 straight shots (as you mentioned). The Jazz are going to play this safe, and hold him out until we lose a game. If we win game 2, expect Conley to sit game 3 as well. Why not? Get him rested for the Phoenix series where we'll need him.





Over / Under on how many seconds Niang is in the game before he takes his first shot? I'll give you 8.


----------



## utahbigbull

Agreed. I think Mike will be sitting the pine until the horizon is setting on them. Makes sense to heal his hammy up as much as possible so they have him at the end.

They need to put 4 consecutive all out quarters tonight and from here on out to wherever their finish line is. 

Not gonna lie, Phoenix is balling right now and gonna be tough match up for the Jazz if they get past the clips.

I’m going with the Jazz by 6 tonight


----------



## utahbigbull

1st half of game 2 against the clips?? MUCH BETTER ball movement, shooting and aggression!!


----------



## Vanilla

Jazz by 6.

Donovan’s ankle will be the biggest story in Utah history.

I really hope it’s just a tweak. He looked a bit ginger.


----------



## Catherder

Exciting game! Both teams left it out there tonight and we still won. 

It looks like the training staff and team doctor might vie for series MVP before it is all over.


----------



## BGD

Paul George’s biggest play of the whole series might just be his collision with Spida with 12 seconds left at the end of game 2. Donovan was still great in game 3 but just seemed to be missing his next level. I expected game 3 to be tough for the Jazz. The clips knew what it would mean to go down 3-0. Each game in a series is its own. I hope the jazz can bounce back and take control of the series Monday night. I would love for the Jazz to come home for game 5 with a chance to close out the Clips.


----------



## Vanilla

I’m more worried about the health on the Jazz than I am about anything that happened in game 3. If Donovan can play effectively and Jazz get MC back, then the Jazz win this series. If MC stays out and Donovan is limited, the Suns will get the Clippers instead.

The Jazz are the better team in this series. The whole thing for me hinges on health at this point. Fingers crossed...


----------



## PBH

I love watching Donovan, and it's fun as hell to see him scoring 40+ pts per game. But we can't sustain wins if he has to score 40 points. We need other guys to score, and loosen the Clippers defense. If they double and triple team Donavan, we have to make them pay for leaving someone else open. We didn't do that in Game 3.

We also need to get Gobert involved.
PG has a little confidence after Game 3. Ingles needs to get in his head early, and stay there. It's obvious that PG is sick of people asking about Ingles - so it shouldn't take much to get him thinking about Ingles instead of basketball.


----------



## Vanilla

While I agree with the two underlying sentiments in your post, I disagree with the practicality of it. Let me explain.

I absolutely agree that when Donovan is getting doubled and tripled the Jazz have to make them pay for that. But this is actually on Donovan. I don’t remember a time he has played so out of control as he did in game 3. His scoring numbers were up there, but he actually didn’t play a great game. The ball is stopping too often at him. The Jazz are at their best when they are moving the ball around and getting open shots. 16 of their 20 made 3 point shots in game 2 were pull up 3s. That isn’t the Jazz blueprint for sustainable winning. That is on Donovan to facilitate. I think you’re seeing him miss Mike Conley the most this series.

Rudy was a complete non-factor in game 3. It was one of the worst games I’ve seen him play in years. Rudy has to get himself involved. He is not crashing the offensive glass. He’s giving up weak offensive rebounds on the other side to guys 8 inches shorter than him. He completely disappeared on the defensive end in game 3. Yes, Rudy has to be better. This is on Rudy.

Shocker that those two guys both have to be better after a loss, huh? Honestly, the Jazz haven’t played great this series, yet they’re still up 2-1. Clean up a couple things and this can end in 5.


----------



## taxidermist

Look what's happened to BK in the East. Two game makers out and its like the season is on KDs shoulders now. Not much different than what's happening with the Jazz as key players get injured. 

I've always believed that the team in the play-offs that stays healthy will win the whole ball of wax. If the Jazz get passed LA, they have a bigger Gorilla in the room with the Suns.


----------



## Critter

I watched a couple of sports shows this morning and they are mostly split on who will win tonight's game. But they mostly agree that the Jazz need to get more players involved and get back to their game of ball movement.

When they get past the Clippers they are going to have a beast to handle in Phoenix and they didn't prove that they can do it this year.


----------



## Vanilla

Critter said:


> When they get past the Clippers they are going to have a beast to handle in Phoenix and they didn't prove that they can do it this year.


When they get passed the Clippers the Suns will have a beast to handle in the Jazz that they didn't prove they can do this year. Go look and see who played and who did not play in those games. I can't repeat myself enough - the regular season doesn't matter anymore.


----------



## CPAjeff

I went to game two in SLC and was alarmed at the times Rudy had a mismatch under the hoop and wasn't fed the ball. Sure the Jazz came out victorious, but from my nearly courtside seat, it sure looked like Rudy should've had a few more touches. I haven't been to a game in years, but game two was an absolute riot!!

Looking forward to the Jazz sending the Clippers on an early vacation and the matchup with the Suns.


----------



## utahbigbull

I agree. Rudy was WIDE open many times. It seems they are at their best when they do risk a inlet pass to him time to time. Sometimes it results in a turnover but they seem to be at their best when he’s involved. It’s like being involved in the offense gives him more drive on the defensive side.

But they are gonna have to heal up quick if they wanna make it past the clippers and then be healthy AND firing on all cylinders if they want to make it past the suns. The suns are flat out playing the best ball of all teams left in the running.

I’m taking the Jazz by 2 tonight. It’s gonna be a nail biter...


----------



## Catherder

utahbigbull said:


> I agree. Rudy was WIDE open many times. It seems they are at their best when they do risk a inlet pass to him time to time.


Just don't have Niang throw the entry pass.  (The two turnovers in a row finished game 3 for us) 

No Conley again. It's going to be tough tonight.


----------



## Vanilla

If utahbigbull says it's going to be 2 points, book it! I thought my "6-10" prediction in game 2 was impressive, until I saw him nail it exactly. 

Niang needs to be out of the rotation entirely. Dude has been so bad in this series!


----------



## PBH

I'm glad you you guys are finally figuring out Niang. I swear, that dude is really just Will Ferrell in disguise. In fact, I think I'd rather have Will Ferrell on the court than Niang.


----------



## utahbigbull

Spot and shoot cuz everyone has to worry about and collapse on the other 4 Niang... He was on a tear of wide open spot up 3’s there for a while. But that about all he’s been good for.


----------



## PBH

utahbigbull said:


> He was on a tear of wide open spot up 3’s there for a while.


So why doesn't he do that???

Instead he ends up with the ball with 4 other [better] offensive weapons on the court, and he never gives up the ball. He forces this, and that, and then some.

If he'd just spot up and take the open 3, I'd be OK with him. But he wants to be the superstar. He's got the Ricky Bobby mentality going on, but he's nothing more than the elf.


----------



## utahbigbull

Vanilla said:


> If utahbigbull says it's going to be 2 points, book it! I thought my "6-10" prediction in game 2 was impressive, until I saw him nail it exactly.


**Now tonights prediction is all pending on if Donavan does not have ankle issues. 

My abilities can not foresee injuries. 😁

But my gut feeling is that his ankle is going to just get more aggravated with every minute he plays until it’s over for him this season.


----------



## utahbigbull

PBH said:


> So why doesn't he do that???
> 
> Instead he ends up with the ball with 4 other [better] offensive weapons on the court, and he never gives up the ball. He forces this, and that, and then some.
> 
> If he'd just spot up and take the open 3, I'd be OK with him. But he wants to be the superstar. He's got the Ricky Bobby mentality going on, but he's nothing more than the elf.


Agreed. That was last series he was doing that.

He’s trying to hard to be like Mike this series!!! Reminds me of Boagie. That dude sometime just try’s too hard and thinks his ball handling skills are better than they are and gets stupid azz turnovers. And neither GN or anyone else besides DM can shoot for Jack this series. My man Clarkston, Ingles, and rare moments Boagie have been able have shooting stretches this series too but not consistent by any stretch.

Again, they need to get back to firing on ALL cylinders to have their season extend beyond this next week. Here’s to hoping 🤞🏼


----------



## Catherder

utahbigbull said:


> He’s trying to hard to be like Mike this series!!!


All I ask is that he not try to be like John (Stockton) tonight and repeatedly chuck away or cough up the ball repeatedly with passes out of his skill set.


----------



## taxidermist

I predict the jazz will have 12 turnovers in the first half tonight. (I hope I'm wrong!!) If that does happen, kiss it goodbye. LA was on fire and they have the momentum and motivation to get it done now. If Utah would just go on the floor and play ball, I mean, have fun and settle down, don't force shots etc. that's when they play great B-Ball.


----------



## Critter

It looks like the Jazz caught a early flight home to SLC and sent in their practice squad 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## Catherder

Hey, Niang isn't the worst player on the court! Well, at least it was a 5 way tie. 

We really need Conley.................


----------



## utahbigbull

I revoke my prediction of the Jazz by 2 and now have the clips by 50 tonight.....


----------



## CPAjeff

utahbigbull said:


> I revoke my prediction of the Jazz by 2 and now have the clips by 50 tonight.....


Ah, the old moving goal post strategy... I like it!! 😉


----------



## utahbigbull

CPAjeff said:


> Ah, the old moving goal post strategy... I like it!! 😉


My original prediction was based on 5 players being on the court playing hard and giving some sort of effort... They are playing like scared little Jr Jazz kids right now..


----------



## Vanilla

This team has not Jazz played basketball for a single game in this series. All hero ball. No ball movement. No pick and roll game. Way too much pull up and shoot and not enough catch and shoot. It worked in SLC as PG13 and Kawhi played poorly.

These are long series. Plenty of time to right the ship. But this is a MAJOR change needed. And Mike Conley better play game 5.


----------



## Vanilla

utahbigbull said:


> My original prediction was based on 5 players being on the court playing hard and giving some sort of effort... They are playing like scared little Jr Jazz kids right now..


You were just thinking ahead to game 5, just like the Jazz!


----------



## taxidermist

Jazz will win game 5 but that will be the last game they win this season. They can clean out the lockers and players begin looking for trades.


----------



## Critter

I just hope that they start playing like they are capable of playing. 

Mondays game looked way too much like a high school JV game. It appeared that each player was trying to win the game by themselves and forgetting that there were 4 other players on the court. But who knows, perhaps the Clippers have figured out the Jazz passing lanes or the Jazz are doing way too much looking before the pass as it gets intercepted. 

But then my prediction of the Jazz in 7 may be right.


----------



## utahbigbull

Tomorrow (game 5) will be the answer as to where this series is going.

It will either be:
A) Burry their heads in the sand and it’s over 
B) They will reach down and grab a pair, come together and leave all they have on the court.


----------



## PBH

Critter said:


> ... perhaps the Clippers have figured out the Jazz passing lanes or the Jazz are doing way too much looking before the pass as it gets intercepted.


Lol.

The Jazz haven't been moving. They come down the court and get the ball to Mitchell at the top of the key. Two guys stand in the corner, and two guys stand on the wing. Did the Clippers figure out the passing lanes? Of course! This isn't science -- it's just simple math. To get from point A to point B follow line 1.



We've heard a term all season long, to the point that it's cliche and we're all sick of it. Obviously, the Jazz are sick of it too. That term? Blender.

We've stopped putting teams in the blender. We need to move.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH, exactly! And even in games 1 and 2 when they won, they were not doing this. At all. Not even close. 

They can do it. It's just a matter of whether if they will do it. Mike Conley has to play tomorrow night, and they have to get back to the beautiful game. If so, the Clippers won't know what hit them and the series ends Friday.


----------



## PBH

Everything changes now.

No Kawhi.
No CP3.
No Harden.
No Irving.


If there ever was an opportunity for the Utah Jazz, it is now. We only have to hope that the list above doesn't grow to include Mitchell and Conley.


----------



## Vanilla

Harden played 46 minutes last night. Which begs the question: why does Niang have to see the floor for the Jazz? 

Injuries can no longer be an excuse for the Jazz. It was setting up that if they did falter, that could be an excuse for the fan base to sooth its hurt feelings. It no longer can. Win, or don’t. Prove it, or don’t. Earn the respect you’ve been demanding all year, or don’t. It’s all there for the taking.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> Everything changes now.
> 
> No Kawhi.
> No CP3.
> No Harden.
> No Irving.
> 
> 
> If there ever was an opportunity for the Utah Jazz, it is now. We only have to hope that the list above doesn't grow to include Mitchell and Conley.



No Kawhi is huge. We might have a chance beating the Clips now with no Conley and I think we would be favored if he is at or near full strength). 

Yes, this is a real opportunity. But the list already includes Conley and Mitchell. It is apparent that Mitchell is far from full strength and is gutting through it. He can still score, but watching him on "D" shows reduced mobility and it seems to me that he has lost some lift when driving to the bucket and jumping. After seeing Harden shuffle around last night, I wonder where things are with Conley and if some "strategic" decision making with the Jazz is calling the shots on his availability. 

The Clips are still formidable. The Suns should get CP3 back sometime in the WCF. Whoever comes out of the East will still be strong. If the Jazz could pull it off, they will deserve it.


----------



## taxidermist

Odds show the Clippers by 3 tonight.


----------



## Vanilla

taxidermist said:


> Odds show the Clippers by 3 tonight.


Jazz were -3 before the Kawhi news broke at most sportsbooks. They are showing -7 now after the news. -7.5 in some places.


----------



## bowgy

I haven't watched them for a long time now but reading these comments it sounds like the Jazz are the same old choke team.


----------



## PBH

bowgy said:


> I haven't watched them for a long time now but reading these comments it sounds like the Jazz are the same old choke team.



I don't think I'd label the current Utah Jazz as "the same old" Utah Jazz. They definitely are not the same old Jazz.....


----------



## Vanilla

If they lose this series, I think you can call that a major disappointment, a “choke,” if you will. But I tend to want things dead before I write their obituary. Let’s see it play out. If they make it to the WCF without their starting PG that is an all star, I personally would not call their season a choke job. If they lose two of the next 3, then they’ll have some explaining to do. 

Jazz win tonight.


----------



## taxidermist

If the Jazz get behind by 10 points, they'll start throwing up 3's and individual play will follow. Panic sets in and team play is out the window. I hope they remember how "team work" makes winners! They have the talent, just need to focus that with five guys.


----------



## bowgy

PBH said:


> I don't think I'd label the current Utah Jazz as "the same old" Utah Jazz. They definitely are not the same old Jazz.....


Yeah, you are probably right, when I used to watch them a lot they always seemed to choke in the last quarter even when they were up by quite a few points. I did watch a little bit of a game with my son in law since their kneeling episodes and they did pretty well in the first half but really choked in the third quarter but came back to win it in the 4th, so yeah not the same old Jazz. But not as fun to watch as they used to be. At least for me, I lost a lot of respect for any of the pro teams that kneel during the National Anthem. Oh well, I haven't missed anything.

I hope they win for all of you guys that are fans.


----------



## utahbigbull

Jazz by 9. My crystal ball has been polished back up. 🔮


----------



## 3arabians

It’s on tonight! This is game 7 tonight as far as I’m concerned. If the jazz start moving the ball again and playing their game it will be over and the jazz will demoralize the clips without Leonard. If the clips come out motivated and have some guy like Morris step up again and punch the Jazz in the jaw during the first half and “playoff Paul” has a big game it gets scary for us. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CPAjeff

One of my favorite childhood coaches would always say, “Hit them hard, hit them early, and hit them often.” It didn’t matter if it was basketball or football, physicality right from the start usually set the tone for the rest of the game.

Morris smashed the Jazz the other night and left the Jazz calling for a sub. Hopefully the past doesn’t repeat itself tonight!


----------



## 3arabians

Vanilla said:


> If they lose this series, I think you can call that a major disappointment, a “choke,” if you will. But I tend to want things dead before I write their obituary. Let’s see it play out. If they make it to the WCF without their starting PG that is an all star, I personally would not call their season a choke job. If they lose two of the next 3, then they’ll have some explaining to do.
> 
> Jazz win tonight.


That’s the thing here! If you watch the media they passively mention that the Jazz have played this entire series without their all star point guard and yet it’s tied 2-2 with a jazz home game upon us. 

Tonight we will see what that home court advantage is worth.

Conley is a big deal and critical to the Jazz winning the championship. If they can pull it off tonight and then win this series and get a healthy conley back for the WCF, lookout! 

If they lose the series….we are just another team that took the fall due to all the allstars that got their butt kicked due to injuries this year. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BGD

Donovan’s bad ankle is a big deal. He is a shadow of his normal self tonight. That and turnovers and missed foul shots are a big factor. It’s a good thing Leonard is out or the Jazz would be down by 20. Here is hoping they can find some magic these last few minutes and pull it out.


----------



## 3arabians

What a bummer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Catherder

BGD said:


> Donovan’s bad ankle is a big deal. He is a shadow of his normal self tonight. That and turnovers and missed foul shots are a big factor.


Yep. He was really struggling. The role players wilted in the second half and Playoff P was on his game. One last chance Friday.

If Conley doesn't go, we are probably done. If he does and Kawhi doesn't, it could still be interesting.


----------



## Vanilla

I didn’t see a second of the game, I haven’t even seen a highlight. I went for a hike tonight and didn’t get back until about 11:15. 

But seeing the score, that one is REALLY disappointing. Home court and no Kawhi, this team just doesn’t seem to have it right now.


----------



## taxidermist

Well, its been a record setting season for the Jazz. Went in as the #1 team in the NBA, and they have shown by their play they are a #6 seed. Very disappointing!! I'm done with them I guess for another ten years. "So long Suckers".


----------



## utahbigbull

Seasons over fellas! Think they got exposed and shown that no matter how good people thought they were, they are still several pieces away from being serious contenders agains other teams come playoffs. Let alone when those other teams are full strength and all healthy.


----------



## taxidermist

Jazz will never see a championship. The nay sayers were correct when they stated a NBA team would never make it in Utah. Ya, a pro team plays in Utah, but cant win sh!t. I doubt they are even worth the price the new owner paid Miller. SELL......SELL......SELL!!!!


----------



## DIRTYS6X6

this seems pretty typical of the Jazz kick but during regular season and pea their shorts at playoff time.


----------



## Critter

I won't write them off yet but they don't have much of a chance of winning 2 in a row with one being down in LA. 

In my opinion they need to get away from the one man show that has been going on for the last 3 games and get back to what brought them to the playoffs. 

I have also wondered what size of shoes that they wear with the number of balls that have been bounced off of their feet that resulted in turnovers.


----------



## Vanilla

Critter said:


> In my opinion they need to get away from the one man show that has been going on for the last 3 games and get back to what brought them to the playoffs.


It hasn’t just been the last three games. Games 1 and 2 they did this as well, the Clippers just didn’t do anything about it until they made their adjustments in game 2 and into game 3. 

Quin is really getting out-coached in this series. I won’t be able to watch the game Friday night either, so I hope we get a game 7!


----------



## Critter

Quin's problem is that he is allowing the problems to persist and not making the team get back to what they can do. 

I understand allowing all the 3 point shots because that is what got them here but the rest of the play is all on him.


----------



## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Quin is really getting out-coached in this series.


Quin? Or D-Wade? Quin has said during all those in-game interviews that we are not playing team ball.

How many times has the camera shown Mitchell conversing with D-Wade on the sideline? Maybe it's just me, but one has to wonder how Quin feels about having a part-owner providing instruction from the sidelines? Reminds me of high school ball where the players stop listening to the coach, and instead listen to the dad over in the bleachers....

We watched a team play fantastic team ball during the regular season. The playoffs started and that team ball has been replaced with the stereotypical isolation star ball of the NBA Playoffs. We can't win playing that kind of ball. We need the blender. The blender worked in quarters 1, and 2 of game 5 last night. But iso-ball came back for quarters 3, 4. 


I'm OK with D-Wade as an owner, and as a fan too. I just hope he's smart enough to step back and allow coaches to coach. Hopefully I'm reading more into this than what is really there. I hope I am wrong.


----------



## Catherder

It's all true that "the blender" has been missing, but how is that initiated? It starts by penetrating or starting an action via pick-and-roll. And who did that during the regular season? Conley, Mitchell, Ingles and sometimes Clarkson. Well, right now, Conley is out, Mitchell is less than 50% as I see it, Ingles has been ineffective, and Clarkson has been "shoot first" the entire season and it is unreasonable to expect much change now. So that doesn't leave us a whole lot. When others try to get the blender going, you have Niang chucking the ball away again. Unless Conley returns in decent shape, and Mitchell heals miraculously, I think we are toast, but it can't be underestimated how much injuries have hurt us. 

As for the rest of the comments, can't win a 'ship, don't deserve to exist. Like, can't shoot a 400 bull, don't deserve to hunt............


----------



## bowgy

Well one good thing about not caring any more is there is no disappointment.

Good luck on the next game.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH, let’s take your comment as face value and assume it’s true for sake of discussion. D-Wade is inserting himself with Donovan and has changed how Donovan is playing. (To be clear, I do NOT believe that, and if so, Donovan needs to hold some blame there too…but for sake of discussion, we’ll assume that is true.)

How does that explain everyone else’s actions out there? That is where the, do I dare call it a conspiracy?, falls IMO. You are correct we are not seeing the TEAM we saw all year. And that is on the TEAM. Including the coach, who seems to have not made a single adjustment the entire series and is getting absolutely schooled by Ty Lue.


----------



## PBH

Van -- I agree. We are getting out-coached. Maybe it is as simple as many want it to be: health.

(tangent: Lebron is my favorite armchair quarterback ever! "I knew exactly what would happen! .. If there's one person that know about the body and how it works all year round it's me!"

yep -- you and every kid on a travel team in the entire US!)

Oh well. I'll be glad when it's over and i don't feel the need to watch any longer. 5:30am comes too soon for those 8:00pm game starts.


----------



## Catherder

PBH said:


> Oh well. I'll be glad when it's over and i don't feel the need to watch any longer. 5:30am comes too soon for those 8:00pm game starts.


True, I'm dead today at work and I don't think the DP is going to be enough to get me going. 

One last comment/agreement. We have been out coached. That may be my biggest disappointment of all this in the postseason.


----------



## Vanilla

To be clear, I’m not placing ALL blame on Quin. But he has his share to take here.


----------



## taxidermist

Coaching is a huge part of the playoffs! When the Jazz went to the finals years ago, Pat Riley was available and the Miller extended Sloan's contract. Not to take anything from Jerry, He was a great coach, but, if Riley could have been in the Jazz would have a trophy IMO. Water under the bridge now. 

Now is the time to show their true colors and grit. I hope they pull it off, but I doubt they can do it.


----------



## 3arabians

CLARKSON!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Critter

I'm not going to pencil in the win yet, a 22 point lead isn't that much when the Jazz have shown how bad that they can play in the second half. 

But I'm going to sharpen up my pencil.


----------



## KineKilla

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


----------



## 3arabians

Critter said:


> I'm not going to pencil in the win yet, a 22 point lead isn't that much when the Jazz have shown how bad that they can play in the second half.
> 
> But I'm going to sharpen up my pencil.


Ya I text my buddy that I was happy but waiting for the choke. He told me to get positive and have a shot. So I did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## utahbigbull

Plenty of time for what has been a routine second half implosion…. Keep it up…. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼


----------



## utahbigbull

Still frustrating that first half watching Rudy just watch people drive to the rim and he just stands there not contesting.


----------



## Critter

Third quarter the need someone to perform the Heimlich maneuver 

Only up 5

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


----------



## 3arabians

Man it hurts being a jazz fan!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## utahbigbull

And the implosion is in full effect


----------



## BGD

They let the clips score 41 in the third. Time to play like they don’t want to be on vacation. Some terrible turnovers that were literally just throwing the ball to the Clips. Better get a little urgency in this 4th quarter.


----------



## 2full

You would think the jazz would Figure out how to defend the wide open shot in the corner the Clippers get time after time the last 3 games.


----------



## Critter

They are sinking fast


----------



## 3arabians

TERRANCE MANN!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Critter

Is it time????????????????????


----------



## utahbigbull

3arabians said:


> TERRANCE MANN!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gobert just standing in the paint not even trying to close out on or contest Mann to just let him ROAST them


----------



## 2full

2full said:


> Clippers in 6.
> I really would like to go with the jazz.
> But with Conley hurt (again) I don't see it happening.
> I just don't see them being able to control Leonard. They have no one to match up to him.
> 
> I really hope I'm wrong.


Did I call that or what ??
Everyone on the Clippers killed them. They didn't stop anybody.


----------



## BGD

It has taken a lot of years for me to start believing again. Pretty bitter pill to swallow. Just cannot overstate how limiting Donovan’s ankle was. He couldn’t stay in front of anybody on defense and couldn’t finish at the rim. And yet he still leads the Jazz with 39.


----------



## Catherder

BGD said:


> It has taken a lot of years for me to start believing again. Pretty bitter pill to swallow. Just cannot overstate how limiting Donovan’s ankle was. He couldn’t stay in front of anybody on defense and couldn’t finish at the rim. And yet he still leads the Jazz with 39.



Yeah, well said. Mitchell, Conley, and even Gobert limping. The defense was terrible in the second half. The Clips also earned it. Only Royce seemed to have any hustle energy. 

I think the biggest frustration right now is how many wide open corner threes they gave up, over and over and over again. That is scheme and coaching. Not good.


----------



## 3arabians

Critter said:


> Is it time????????????????????


 Well done Critter. 

That was painful. Hopefully we can keep these troops together for next year. It’s a process. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BGD

My 16 year old son told me he is starting to understand what 97 and 98 must’ve been like. He is out shooting hoops in the dark to burn off some of his emotion. The Jazz were lots of fun to watch this year but it is so hard to watch them lose like this.


----------



## KineKilla

As someone that watched the last good squad blow their chance at a championship...I feel his pain.

Better luck next year?

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


----------



## 3arabians

BGD said:


> My 16 year old son told me he is starting to understand what 97 and 98 must’ve been like. He is out shooting hoops in the dark to burn off some of his emotion. The Jazz were lots of fun to watch this year but it is so hard to watch them lose like this.


Ah 97-98….Those were the days. It’s tough but he’ll get past it. The Jazz will get there again soon if they can keep a core group together. 

Your sons story reminds me of breaking my TV remote against the wall and calling Blue Edwards a big nosed freak when they lost to the blazers and Clyde the glide back in the day. 

My mom kicked me out to the driveway where I shot hoops for 2 hours trying to get over the loss. That loss still sucks. Haha 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## taxidermist

Now I see why I gave up season tickets and stopped caring about the Jazz. I thought Ruddy was the defensive man of the year? Just downright despicable. They should be ashamed to even walk the streets of SLC.


----------



## Critter

In Ruddy's defense, he couldn't be everywhere that they needed him. When the Clippers went small and pulled him out of the middle he was like a fish out of water. Then all they had to do was to pass the ball to the person standing in the corner for that 3 pt shot. If you watched it when they even when the Clippers would drive the middle Ruddy would collapse onto them. Sometimes he was quick enough and other times he wasn't. 

I actually thought that when they were up 25 that they had the game. I thought that the Clippers would make a run and cut it in half or more but very few teams can sustain a run to eliminate a 25 point lead and even fewer can completely blow a 25 point lead. But this year there were two of them. The Jazz along with the 76ers. Both resulted in losses.


----------



## Catherder

taxidermist said:


> Now I see why I gave up season tickets and stopped caring about the Jazz. I thought Ruddy was the defensive man of the year? Just downright despicable. They should be ashamed to even walk the streets of SLC.


Sounds like you still care. 


Defensively, there is "blame" aplenty to share. First, our perimeter defenders were getting beaten on the drive any time the clips wanted. Mitchell and Conley's bad wheels were a big part of that. Rudy didn't look right to me either but he was trying to defend the paint from the easy point of attack penetration and at the same time, 'try" to guard his man sitting in the corner waiting to add 3 points to his total. That may be part Rudy, but is largely scheme (ie:coaching decisions). The failure to adjust out of a failing strategy falls on Snyder. Lastly, due to injury, or other causes, they seemed to run out of gas while the clips were energized. Not sure how "blame" can be affixed there.


----------



## taxidermist

Catherder said:


> Sounds like you still care.
> 
> 
> Defensively, there is "blame" aplenty to share. First, our perimeter defenders were getting beaten on the drive any time the clips wanted. Mitchell and Conley's bad wheels were a big part of that. Rudy didn't look right to me either but he was trying to defend the paint from the easy point of attack penetration and at the same time, 'try" to guard his man sitting in the corner waiting to add 3 points to his total. That may be part Rudy, but is largely scheme (ie:coaching decisions). The failure to adjust out of a failing strategy falls on Snyder. Lastly, due to injury, or other causes, they seemed to run out of gas while the clips were energized. Not sure how "blame" can be affixed there.


I actually got kind of excited when I found out they were #1 with the NBA overall winning record. I decided to watch the games and see if they were "all that." I should have known they would fall flat on their ARS like they have in the past. Some year "maybe" (many years from now) they might shock the world and themselves winning at least a trip to the championship.

You cant win them all they say.....But you could at least win 2 fricking games out of 5 with a 2-0 jump on any team.

From what I saw (first half only) Ruddy got turned upside-down on the floor and bounced when hitting his butt check. I'm sure that played a roll in his lack of defense and letting More??? Dunk over him. It was like he'd step aside when they came at him in the paint. Afraid to fowl I guess and get benched. Well it doesn't do any good letting them have their way with you when they're scoring in the paint. That's a BIG Mans house, They should defend that space like a Momma Bear protecting Cubs.


----------



## Vanilla

Tough end to a fun season. Quin got exposed for his inability to adjust on the fly in a series, let alone a game. He needs to grow, and I think he can. This is likely the best shot they had at a title with all things considered, and they blew it. 

Do you guys remember when folks argued Rudy was the best player on the Jazz?


----------



## PBH

Rudy's +/- is still the best on the team, and near the top of the league.

It wasn't Rudy that was exposed in this series, it was Snyder and his defensive scheme -- or, rather, Tye Lue's ability to scheme an offense to expose the Jazz strategy on defense.

I'm glad the season is over. I'll go back to digging holes, and filling them in in my yard.


----------



## taxidermist

PBH said:


> Rudy's +/- is still the best on the team, and near the top of the league.
> 
> It wasn't Rudy that was exposed in this series, it was Snyder and his defensive scheme -- or, rather, Tye Lue's ability to scheme an offense to expose the Jazz strategy on defense.
> 
> I'm glad the season is over. I'll go back to digging holes, and filling them in in my yard.


Burring coffee cans full of money again?


----------

