# Mt Dutton precipitation report



## Guest (Apr 17, 2009)

Was just wondering if anyone know the snowfall totals so far this year for dutton. Have they gotten any rain as well. How much rain if any? Are they having a good year or a bad year? How many 600" bulls does the mountain look like it will grow this year? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Below is a link to a map of Utah click on the Jones corral blue bubble then the last seven days total. Wish I would have known about this site before my sons cow elk hunt in Jan.  
Looks like there is 45 inches of snow up at Jones Corral right now.

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snotel/Utah/utah.html

Allen


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

That's a cool link yak4fish....thanks for posting !!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

.45 said:


> That's a cool link yak4fish....thanks for posting !!


+1


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Looks like it's well above normal stinky. Now do you believe me? :roll:


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

with that much precip I would hold out for the 700" bull


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

I've been watching the Jones Corral station readings regularly since middle of Jan. and it has had above 36 inches most of the winter. Judging by the picture they show of the station it appears to be in a fairly shady spot.I wonder how deep the snow is on the south facing slopes?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

yak4fish, I look at the total for this year in comparison to years past. I'm guessing the sun shining on the south slopes is comparable year in and year out.


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Pro
I realize the sun shines the same year in year out. What I wonder is how deep the snow is on the south facing slopes when the snow is 45 inches deep in the shade in April. I would think it is mostly melted by now on the sunny slopes.
Allen


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Sweet link!!
I think me and Pro will both agree there is atleast 45" up there, cuz we had to dig my truck out of it by hand a month ago right near Jones Corral!! -/O_-


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

On a serious note: I know that Pro spends a ton of time on the Dutton.. I have a question? I use to hunt archery Jones Corral area . What a great time used to be had there , Took the wife down scouting last year,, My question: What the heck happened to all the deer?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

oldfudd said:


> On a serious note: I know that Pro spends a ton of time on the Dutton.. I have a question? I use to hunt archery Jones Corral area . What a great time used to be had there , Took the wife down scouting last year,, My question: What the heck happened to all the deer?


I saw more deer on Dutton last fall than anytime in the last 10 years. I saw several mature bucks and they look good coming out of winter as well. I believe the prescribed burn in 2002 and the hogging of pinion juniper going on now in the Deer Creek drainage are helping the deer and the elk out big time. Now we just need to start controlling the rapidly growing bear population on that mountain.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> Sweet link!!
> I think me and Pro will both agree there is atleast 45" up there, cuz we had to dig my truck out of it by hand a month ago right near Jones Corral!! -/O_-


WTH? Who goes in the hills w/o a shovel? I felt like a tin horn.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Hey thanks yous guys. I've got a shovel. still not going scouting down thata way for awhile, I can still see the days back in the 70's wests of Jones. seein 40 to 50 bucks a day.. Also picked up guys back then from California who had a Lion chase him off a kill, He ran, I told him you take off like that you should have been supper,,


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

oldfudd said:


> On a serious note: I know that Pro spends a ton of time on the Dutton.. I have a question? I use to hunt archery Jones Corral area . What a great time used to be had there , Took the wife down scouting last year,, My question: What the heck happened to all the deer?


I don't spend a lot of time on the Dutton....BUT, I have spent a lot of time up there the past two weeks and have a couple of observations: 1) I have never seen so many deer in my entire life. Granted, they are on their winter range, but I have literally seen thousands the past two weekends while hunting turkeys. 2) I was very disappointed with the snow totals compared to what I saw on the Boulder in similar altitudes. I drove my ATV almost all the way to Jones Corral with very little trouble before turning back. The south facing slopes had virtually no snow on them...how that compares to other years, I don't know. But, I do know that the snotel sites can be misleading and often do not tell the whole truth.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I believe the prescribed burn in 2002 and the hogging of pinion juniper going on now in the Deer Creek drainage are helping the deer and the elk out big time. Now we just need to start controlling the rapidly growing bear population on that mountain.


Agreed. I also think the burns in the Rock Creek, Prospect Creek, and Hunts Creek drainages have helped. I was really impressed with the work that has been done in the Deer Creek area and really noticed the deer and elk were in those areas....BUT, I would worry much more about the coyote population than the bear population.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> BUT, I would worry much more about the coyote population than the bear population.


No kidding!!! I'm ready to head out and do some 'yote hunting!

As with W2U -- I've spent a bunch of time around Dutton lately. Lots, and lots, and lots of deer. I have been pleasantly surprised at the deer numbers on the Dutton right now.

My biggest worry is simply the bucks. In the last month I've seen thousands of does, but I haven't seen any bucks. What's with that?

I can't say the same for elk. I've seen lots of bulls, but they've all been spikes and rag horns...


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the prescribed burn in 2002 and the hogging of pinion juniper going on now in the Deer Creek drainage are helping the deer and the elk out big time. Now we just need to start controlling the rapidly growing bear population on that mountain.
> ...


The Rock Creek, Prospect Creek, and Hunt Creek burns were part of the 2002 prescribed burn. I agree with the coyotes, I roll as many as I can. The difference is I can shoot the coyotes, but not the bears.


PBH said:


> As with W2U -- I've spent a bunch of time around Dutton lately. Lots, and lots, and lots of deer. I have been pleasantly surprised at the deer numbers on the Dutton right now. All the conservation projects seem to be paying off.
> 
> My biggest worry is simply the bucks. In the last month I've seen thousands of does, but I haven't seen any bucks. What's with that? I have seen more mature bucks in the last year than anytime in the last 10 years on this unit. How many of those 'does' you've seen on the last month are bucks that have shed?
> 
> I can't say the same for elk. I've seen lots of bulls, but they've all been spikes and rag horns...That's all there is on this unit, no mature bulls dwell on the unit.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Oh that mountian will be plenty wet after Stinky leaves.

.........it will be a flood of tears when he misses his monster bull at 100 yds with his long range anti tank rocket launcher!! -_O- -/O\- *(())* -oooo- -/O_- -/|\- -O|o-


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I have seen more mature bucks in the last year than anytime in the last 10 years on this unit. How many of those 'does' you've seen on the last month are bucks that have shed?


Well, honestly it would take a much better "expert" than myself to figure out if any of the does I've seen are really bucks. I'm thinking Pro has a much better eye at those things than myself. I know that I didn't see a single _deer_ with antlers in the last 4 weeks that I've been on the Dutton.

I did, however, see two MONSTER bull elk on the Boulder. Monsters. Huge. Already branching. Bad dudes. Maybe you should reconsider your hunting area? All you'd have to do is cross the road....

Ned Nederlander: I think it's a male plane.
Dusty Bottoms: How can you tell?
Ned Nederlander: Didn't you notice its little balls?

The way to tell if you're a good fisherman is if you can trick your prey into taking whatever you happen to be using. It's easy to hook a fish on something the fish wants to take. It's more of a challenge to convince a fish to take something it doesn't want. Bait, flies, hardware, whatever. Some fish are easier than others to convince that your bait is worth taking. The nice thing about Pro is that it doesn't matter what you put in front of him, he's going to take it!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

PBH said:


> I did, however, see two MONSTER bull elk on the Boulder. Monsters. Huge. Already branching. Bad dudes. Maybe you should reconsider your hunting area? All you'd have to do is cross the road....


Or, I can just wait knowing the bulls cross the same road with ease and regularity during the rut. Knowledge is such a nice thing to possess.  8)


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Pro -- you related to TubeDude?



To be honest, I'm not too sure about these elk, and if they'll be crossing the road during the rut or not. Just the area I saw them, and knowing (it's that knowledge thing...) where these bulls typically go this time of year -- I have my doubts about these fellas crossing John's Valley during the rut.

But, elk are a funny animal. Just when you think you know everything, they surprise you and do something unexpected. I wouldn't expect someone of your knowledge to understand this, because I think you probably have experienced everything, and know it all.




(that was a pretty good take. Got him on my first cast. He made a good initial run, nearly to my backing. Now I'll start to bring him in...)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Ignoring the troll and getting back on topic, I believe the front end growth should be excellent!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

calm down pro. Go home, chill out and drink a nice tall frosty mountain dew! You'll feel better in the morning. Who knows, maybe it will help your intelligence level................ Heck, I'm paying you to take me elk hunting, maybe I need one to. Or maybe I need to hire that other smart arse that way we can poach one off the wrong unit :idea: !


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Careful stinky, PBH and his brother wy2ut hate guides and they hate people who buy conservation tags. They are 'above' such activities and believe these kind of things are destroying hunting right before your/my eyes. -oOo-


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

The line went slack for a second...


...I guess he just made a run towards me. He's taking line again!! (I didn't get a good hook-set, but so far it's holding!)


Pro -- have you ever spoken to me concerning this? That's quite the theory you've come up with.

Personally, guides are not for me. I see no reason to use one. I get more personal satisfaction out of puzzle-solving and completing projects through my own hard work. Whether that means finishing my basement myself, landscaping my yard using a pick, shovel, and wheel barrow, or hunting big-game, it's no different. Anyone can have a beautiful yard. At least when someone comments on my yard I can say that I did it myself. When people comment on the elk hanging on Stinky's wall, he'll get to say "yep, had a guide take me right to him! All I had to do was pull the trigger!".

Conservation tags do remind me of Europe, specifically of the way game is managed in Great Britain. Seems like our founding fathers did a lot to get away from that type of system. But, that's just my opinion. It's kind of like an *******. I'll bet you've got one too!

FWIW -- I believe that anything that is left without some kind of rules or regulations to follow can turn into a bad thing. That would include guides.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Man I was way off, my bad. :roll:


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

the jones corral snotel site is just east of the jones ranger station by about 50 yards. if you want to see more detailed pictures of the site go to the station information section of the utah snow survey page: www.ut.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/
and then go to the cardinal coordinate picture viewer. it will show pic from the site looking n, s, e and w as well as from the n, s, e, w looking to the site. you can also get info on site characteristics such as slope, aspect and vegetation. this site is on a north facing aspect, in the trees. the nearest south facing site is pickle keg springs up salina canyon. a close site, widtsoe 3 is also north facing but clayton rs is flat, no aspect but much higher in elevation on the boulder. box creek on monroe is also flat with respect to slope.

one other factor is the amount of snow in recent days which would likely accumulate on both north and south aspects. the south stuff will melt out quicker to be sure, but in the short run there would be lots of snow on both north and south.

the next thing people want to ;know is melt out dates - melt hasnt really started yet... just fringe stuff at lower elevations and south aspects... wait till a site is losing 1 to 1.5 inches per day then simply divide the total swe by the loss rate to get a good approximation of melt out. losing .5 inch per day is when there is still a lot of cold in the pack and small cooling trends and stop melt entirely for some time. at the higher loss rates, it may slow down but not likely to stop. now, melt out at one site doesnt mean that we have complete access as there are lots of drifts, etc that can block certain ssections of road. but it does give a good indication.
rj


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Good info Kingfisher! Thanks. 8)


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

kingfisher, I couldn't understand you. Can you please put this in terms we can all understand? I think it would be better if you put the melt rates in perspective with the steam tables everyone is so familiar with from thermodynamics. How would the steam tables, melt rates, snow pack density, enthalpy, and the rate of global warming relate to the estimated horn growth for a big bull this year? lol


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

LMAO!! -/O_- 

I'm missing on some good fun here, you gotta ping me stinky when the trolls are out!!


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## stillhuntin (Feb 14, 2008)

Kingfisher said:


> the jones corral snotel site is just east of the jones ranger station by about 50 yards. if you want to see more detailed pictures of the site go to the station information section of the
> 
> thanks kingfisher. Appreciate the excellent info :!:


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Ping skull? WTF? between you and pro my wifes startin to look like an angle when it comes to ignoring people! But you have my money and have turned into the typical guides! Can I get my money back? you guys are turning out to be really crappy hired friends! :evil:


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Stinky, 
Do you want me to play the nice guy?


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

Stinkystomper,
glad someone out there wants a more technical review of the melting process and since this is more than just a hobby to me, here she is...

and hope this helps with determining accessibility on the duttons. it has made a difference in how i look a snow. (from my snowhydrology page)
rj


Rationale
Snow metamorphism is driven by gradients of temperature and vapor density within the snowpack 
These are caused by transfers of heat (energy), liquid water, and water vapor to or from the snowpack. Mainly at the surface of the snowpack, but also between the snowpack and the ground. 
Once snow is raised to 0 deg C, further energy input results in conversion of ice to liquid water. 
Normally the entire snowpack temperature is raised to 0 deg C before much meltwater can leave the snowpack (called the cold content of the snowpack), but some water flow can occur through the snowpack even when snow temperatures are -3 or -4 deg C. 
By examining and measuring energy fluxes at the snow surface, we can interpret and estimate metamorphism and melt. 
Methods of Energy Transfer 
Radiation 
Transfer of energy by electromagnetic waves, the only form of energy transfer that doesn't require a medium, therefore the only way energy can be transferred through outer space. 
Conduction 
Transfer of energy by molecule to molecule contact, in response to a temperature gradient, where the substance itself does not mix. Takes place in both solids and fluids, but most important in solids. 
Convection 
Transfer of energy where the substance (eg molecules) mix. 
Sensible heat flux: in response to a temperature gradient. 
Latent heat flux: through change of state among solid, liquid, and gas phases. 
Advection 
Transfer of energy by mass transfer, eg rain on snow. Often defined as HORIZONTAL convection, eg horizontal movement of a warm air mass over a cold snowpack. 
Energy Exchange at the Snow Surface
Radiation (R) 
Radiation is emitted from the sun and reradiated from the earth in the form of electromagnetic waves. 
Snowpack receives solar energy from the sun, predominately in the visible wavelengths. 
Snowpack also emits energy back to the atmosphere, primarily in the thermal wavelengths. 
Net Radiation is thus the difference of energy received from incoming solar radiation and the energy lost by the snowpack. 
Sensible Heat Exchange (H) 
Transfer of energy by conduction in response to a temperature gradient. 
The larger the temperature gradient, the greater the sensible heat flux. 
However, in the absence of wind, molecular transfer of energy is comparatively slow. 
With increasing wind velocity there is increasing convective mixing. Sensible heat flux occurs as much as 10,000 times faster than in the absence of wind. 
With increasing shear stress, the greater the exchange of sensible heat. 
Latent Heat Flux (LE) 
If air is supersaturated with water vapor with respect to the snow surface, energy may be transferred to the snowpack through condensation and latent heat exchange. Conversely, if the atmosphere is drier than the snowpack, energy in the snowpack is used to sublimate water molecules from the snowpack, returning energy from the snowpack to the atmosphere. Analogous to sweat evaporating from our body, returning energy from our bodies to the atmosphere and cooling our bodies. 
Advective Heat Flux (F) 
Mass transfer of energy to the snowpack, by rain-on-snow events, avalanches, etc. 
Ground or Soil Heat Flux (G) 
Transfer of energy at the snow/soil interface. Soils are generally (but not always!) warmer than overlying snow because of energy stored from the summer and from geothermal heat. In general, energy flux is from soils to the snowpack. 
Energy Balance Equation
For the snowpack as a whole: 
energy in minus the energy out = change in heat content of the snowpack 
Function of temperature, phase changes. Also a function of the specific heat of the snowpack. 
For the snow surface: 
It has no thickness; 
It has no volume; 
energy in minus energy out = 0, and 
R + G + H + LE + F = 0 
Electromagnetic Radiation

Electromagnetic Radiation: Basic Principles
All bodies radiate energy 
With increasing temperature of the body, you get increasing energy at all wavelengths 
As temperature increases, the wavelength at which the maximum energy is emitted decreases, according to Wien's Law . 
The Planck equation calculates the radiation spectrally emitted at some wavelength lambda. 
The Stefan-Boltzmann equation integrates the energy emitted over all wavelengths. 
BLACK BODIES: Potential energy emitted by a material, calculated using the Stefan-Boltzman equation. No material is a perfect black body. 
EMISSIVITY : Ratio of emitted energy to that of a black body at the same temperature. 
Emissivity problem : 
GREY BODIES: Emissivity is independent of wavelength. 
COLORED BODIES: Emissivity varies with wavelength. 
Turbulent Fluxes
Turbulent Transfer
Turbulent transfer of energy to and from the snowpack consists of three rates: 
Momentum (N m-2) 
Heat (W m-2) 
Water Vapor (Kg m-2 s-1) 
Sensible heat is a function of two parameters: 
The magnitude of the temperature difference between the atmosphere (Ta) and the snow surface (Ts), or (Ta - Ts) 
The rate of mixing of air molecules, which depends on: 
wind speed 
surface roughness (z0) 
atmospheric stability 
Latent heat is also a function of two parameters: 
The magnitude of the specific humidity difference between the atmosphere (qa) and the snow surface (qs), or (qa - qs); and 
The rate of mixing of air molecules, which depends on: 
wind speed 
surface roughness (z0) 
atmospheric stability 
In short, 
Sensible heat energy is transferred to the snowpack if the air temperature increases with height above the snowpack and sensible heat energy is transferred from the snowpack to the atmosphere if the air temperature decreases with height above the snowpack. 
Water vapor is condensed on the snowpack if the vapor pressure increases with height above the snowpack and water vapor is evaporated or sublimated from the snowpack to the atmosphere if the vapor pressure decreases with height above the snowpack. 
Molecular Case
So, to understand turbulent fluxes, we need to understand how the atmosphere is mixed. Lets start with a simple molecular case, where all air flow is laminar (eg no mixing). Heat and water vapor exchange in the laminar situation is a function of their molecular diffusivities, which we can write as: 

The subscript zero indicates that the gradients are evaluated at the surface, the snow surface in our case. Note that all three fluxes are a function of the density of air, the rate of movement through the air, and a gradient with respect to height. However, these equations are of little practical use, because of the difficulty in measuring wind speed, temperature, and humidity gradients in the very thin layer near the surface where the air flow is laminar. 
Simularity Hypothesis
Let us define a surface layer as the region where the transfers of momentum, heat and water vapor are constant with height. Experimental evidence shows that this layer is perhaps 10-20 m in thickness; operationally we usually define it as the first ten meters above the snow surface. This leads to the simularity hypothesis, whereby we may measure the transfer rates anywhere within this layer and assume that the transfer rates we measure are the same as at the surface. 
There are three approaches to measuring the transfer rates within the surface layer: 

Eddy correlation method; 
Aerodynamic profile method (APM); and 
Bulk transfer method. 
Eddy Covariance
Measure all three turbulent transfer components simulaneously. Measurements are made at one height. The "best" measurement of turbulent fluxes. Necessitates specialized instruments with very fast response times (tenths to hundreths of seconds). Instrumentation is expensive and fragile. 

The K terms are effective diffusivity parameters that incorporate the effect of convection. Note that they cannot be constant with height, unless the gradients are constant with height (they generally aren't), and they may vary by 3 orders of magnitude with height and with time. 
Aerodynamic Profile Method
The idea here is to take turbulent flux measurements simultaneously at two or more heights, using standard meteorlogical equipment. Measurements are wind speed, relative humidity, and air temperature. By calculating the difference in these parameters as a function of height above the snow surface, and using the simularity hypothesis, we can then calculate sensible and latent heat fluxes. Generally, you want the measurements to taken fairly close to the ground, where the wind speed difference with height is the greatest. Often measurements are taken at 1 and 2 meters above the snow surface. An obvious problem is that the snow surface height changes continuously with respect to a fixed height. For example, instruments located 1 meter above the snow surface can easily be buried by a large snowfall event. 
Mixing rate or momentum transfer between the two measurement heights is a function of shear velocity (u*), hence the K terms from the eddy correlation equations are a function of the shear velocity and the height, or 

Km = k u* z
where little k is the famous von Karmann constant and z is length. Sensible and latent heat transfer rates are then a function of the difference in either temperature or specific humidity with height and wind speed speed with height: 



Note that we take the natural log of the measurement height difference (ln (z2 - z1)) because of the logarithmic relationship of wind speed with height. 

Bulk Transfer Method
Keeping two sets of measurement instruments operating continuously over snow-covered terrain is a doable but expensive and labor-intensive enterprise. Often, researchers measure temperature and specific humidty at the snow surface and some fixed height above the snow surface. During snowmelt, we know the snow surface temperature is 0 deg C, relative humidity is 100%, and wind speed is zero. Therefore, researchers need only measure those parameters at a single height to use the bulk transfer method: 

DH and DW are the rate at which heat and water vapor are moved in the atmosphere above the snowpack. The momentum term (tau) is implicitly included in the bulk transfer coefficients. An important component of the bulk transfer rates is the "roughness length" (z0), where wind speed goes to zero. The roughness length (in meters) is the height above the snow surface where the wind speed goes to zero. As roughness length increases, so do the turbulent transfer rates. 

Bowen Ratio
Internal Snowpack Energy


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

:shock:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Stinky, you're a bad man.


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## stillhuntin (Feb 14, 2008)

Kingfish er,
So... we gonna have a thaw???
On the Dutton? :?:  :shock:


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Kingfisher
If I had a snow ball I would throw it at you. :twisted: 
If it was 2 1/2 inches in dia. how long would it take to melt in 65 deg weather. :wink:


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2009)

what happens when the electromagnetic waves encounter dipoles which radiate at the fundamental frequency of snow, and say cause interference at 1/4 wavelengths? Does the snow stay frozen forever? I think maxwell would say YES! rofl! And actually I believe the fundamental frequency of snow is 1024 nano meters (F(water)). Soooooooooooo. I guess by laying all-mode fiberoptic cable on top of snow and blocking that frequency would help lessen a melt? Maybe we have an idea for a new cooler. I was wondering if you could also explain how the 6th harmonic of reflecting emag radiation would effect snow? could you please work the 6th order diff equ. in detail for us? If you respond I'm gonna kick your ARSE! ROFL! your a good sport


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Just because you use big words and put letters in a phrase, it does not mean that your smart!


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2009)

I'm sorry UT. I didn't know you would be reading my posts. Next time I will use my crayon and coloring book font! :mrgreen:


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks, now all of us from Tooele County will be able to understand your jibberish.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

ah yes. returning to the simple answers.
yes the snow will melt on the duttons. i am flying and measuring there tomorrow, will let you know how it is.

snowball, 2 and 1/2 inches diameter, 65 degrees. 10 minutes, plus or minus ten minutes.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Kingfisher said:


> 10 minutes, plus or minus ten minutes.


 :mrgreen:


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2009)

Goodness pro, out of all that jibberish i got that that PBH guy doesnt much care for you. Im thinking he doesnt like you much either SS. I think he thinks he is cool for some reason, Im just not seeing the reason.... 8) oh yes, and i also got that...There are in fact deer on the dutton, someone needs to start wackin bears though. Skull crazy is indeed, CRAZY, cuz he went to jones corral w/out a shovel and that pro is plain stupid cuz he went with Skully. Apparently yotes are more of a problem then bears, so someone needs to put out a hit on them too. PBH likes the 3 amigos movie WAY to much, or perhaps is attempting to insult pro and crew in some unknown/understood manner(BTW, pro doesnt take ANYTHING you put in front of him especially if it is a vegetable, or a drink with ice in it). PBH thinks he is also good at fishing, as well as...finishing basements, working puzzles and doing yard work (all by himself, mind you). Pro thinks elk cross roads, PBH thinks they dont. Pro thinks there are some big bulls on the dutton, PBH thinks that all the big bulls are on the boulder to stay. Pro things PBH is a troll( is that what they call it now?) PBH thinks pro is a fish. PBH doesnt understand stinkys real reason for having a guide and thinks that conservation tags relate to europe. PBH thinks SS doesnt/ hasnt/ can't hunt on his own( PBH needs to come see my house). SS is a smart butt. Kingfisher is some kinda genious like SS_ both a bit on the nerdy side for my taste (good thing SS has more going for him other than his big brain :roll: ). UT doenst like conflict, Skully has ADD. The snow is definitly going to melt on the dutton at some point this year, and a snowball 2 1/2 inches in will indeed melt in 10 min. plus or minus 10 min. Now how is that for a recap? SS cant say i dont pay attention! You boys are silly! :lol:


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Wow QTPIE you just took 8 days of thread and put it in one paragraph. :shock: Where were you when I400 was being hashed/bashed out?

Oh ya, I saw three sets of couger tracks in deer creek in Jan. most likley a female with two full growen kittens. I think we need to start wackin cougers along with the bears and yotes.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2009)

i myself wouldnt mind having one of those!! dont worry yak, im here to recap whatever needs recapped from now on


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Good some of the elk and deer managment threads and wolf threads to. Can go from 0 to 100 posts in one day. :shock: Very time consuming to keep up with.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

SS QTPIE said:


> PBH guy doesnt much care for you.
> 2. he thinks he is cool for some reason,
> 3. PBH likes the 3 amigos movie WAY to much,
> 4. pro doesnt take ANYTHING you put in front of him
> ...


1. Nope. Not really.
2. Cool? I work on computers for a living. I'm anything BUT cool! I'm a nerd. Geek. Dork.
3. Understatement. Best movie of ALL TIME!
4. Yes, he does. He takes EVERYTHING I put in front of him!
5. Fishing -- see #4. I am good at fishing. I'm not good at finishing my basement, or doing yard work -- but I find great satisfaction in doing them both.
6. I know elk cross roads. If they didn't, elk hunter success rates would plummet! I don't think that the big bulls I saw recently on the Boulder will end up on the Dutton.
7. I disagree. I know that there are some big bulls on Fish Lake, Panguitch, Beaver, and Monroe as well. (Spidey passed on his genes!)
8. A troll? No. A troller maybe! I'm a fisherman, remember. I do enjoying trolling. But, I prefer casting buggers. You could call me a "bugger" if you prefer.
9. It is unfortunate, but I do realize that Pro is not a fish. However, he displays many characteristics of a fish. Do you know what the brain capacity of a fish is? They respond to stimuli. That's pretty much it. Remind you of anyone? Pro responds -- A LOT!
10. I understand the reason people pay for guides. It is something that I don't personally see the need for. I do think that our current conservation tag system is like Europe, where big money purchases big game. In America, wildlife belongs to the public, not the guy with biggest wallet.
11. SS needs to forget about hunting, and just come fishing with PBH!


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

SSQTPIE-

LMAO, you rock girl!! -_O- 

Bart got me a shovel for my birthday, i'm good to go!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> SSQTPIE-
> 
> LMAO, you rock girl!! -_O-
> 
> Bart got me a shovel for my birthday, i'm good to go!


 *\-\*


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

I just wanted to see Pro work.
I hadn't seen him down on all fours like that since the sheep round up! -/O_-


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2009)

PBH said:


> SS QTPIE said:
> 
> 
> > PBH guy doesnt much care for you.
> ...


#1. Well, that is too bad. Now i have to question you judgement of character a bit. :? 
#2 I stand corrected, there are more dorks on this site than i initailly thought. :| 
#3 Gotta agree with you on this one_ i have it memorized.
#4 Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
#5 Would you have any less satisfaction if you had a friend helping you?
#6 Good to know, your not a dumb as i thought.  
#7. Ok now come on, You redeem yourself on #6 then shoot yourself in the foot again on number 7. -O>>- 
Part A: Tell me you dont honestly think "spidey" (God rest his poor soul) was a free
ranging wild elk not raised on a farm some where??? Honestly??
Part B: I find it amazing there are HUGE elk on ALL those other units, but only a few cows on the dutton!!! Really amazing -oOo- 
#8 Then bugger you will be....
#9 Guess it takes one to know one.... what do ya know, looks like im quite the fisherman too. -|\O- 
#10. Man, i could write a book on this one but i will spare you all. Do they not have a draw for this same hunt SS paid for? Do all citizens not have a equal chance at a tag?(k dont answer this one cuz im beginning to wonder myself) Now im no math brain, but several tags being *sold* out of a hundred or so tags available seems quite fair to me. I see no difference in the two. Except some sucker (SS) is willing to "guarantee" a tag for himself with cold hard cash while the rest of us have to wait our turn. We all gotta pay for the tags we get regardless. How much, is just personal choice. Correction, in America wildlife DOES belong to the pubic, INCLUDING the guy with the biggest wallet. -~|- 
#11. Sounds like a dream come true for you....lmao Not sure which one of you two is the biggest sucker.... o-||

All joking aside, it may seem i hate you but i dont. I like everyone, unless they give me a reason not to. If SS likes you then your good by me. I just like to cause drama on these "man sites" it cracks me up how ya'll are just as bad as us women... Lmao

Skully,

Great, good for you!! Im glad he got you a shovel. Now all we gotta do is teach you how it works. That should only take a month or two. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: Gosh now i feel bad..... i feel like i just kicked a cute fluffy happy dumb puppy.... Are you gonna be ok? Really....


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2009)

skull krazy said:


> I just wanted to see Pro work.
> I hadn't seen him down on all fours like that since the sheep round up! -/O_-


Thats just wrong


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

getting back to the orginal question... snow on the duttons. flew by on sunday, on steeper slopes, say above 20% or so, snow is melted out to about 9000 feet on south aspects. so fish lake, norht side, south aspect is melted out to the top of the plateau, lake still frozen. now, when the slope is lower or flat even on south aspects, like on monroe mountain near squaw springs on the box creek road, there was about 12 inches of snow. so, plenty of snow left blocking access to lots of places. on the duttons at jones corral, lots of snow, 35 inches of depth and about 13 inches of water in the snow. melting about 1/5 inch a day which will increase to about an inch a day soon. so, at jonesy, got about 14-16 days or so of snowmelt left. all the packs were isothermal and melting. good access in the south to about 8000 feet elevation (minus drifts, etc) could get atv access higher. wont be long till you have good access in most places. soil moisture values are very high as one would expect during snowmelt and it is muddy all over so dont tear things up just cuz ya can get there... let it dry a bit or at least be careful.

saw some good elk herds on poverty flats above monroe, and at the base of cove. also 3 herds of about 100 each just a mile east of highway six and about 2 miles norht of the scofield turnoff. lots of elk in many other locations as well. blacksmiths fork, logan canyon, deseret land and livestock, lost creek, salina canyon, mud creek. didnt see any on the norht or south slopes... must have been dozing.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

SS QTPIE said:


> Do they not have a draw for this same hunt SS paid for? Do all citizens not have a equal chance at a tag?(k dont answer this one cuz im beginning to wonder myself) Now im no math brain, but several tags being *sold* out of a hundred or so tags available seems quite fair to me. I see no difference in the two. Except some sucker (SS) is willing to "guarantee" a tag for himself with cold hard cash while the rest of us have to wait our turn. We all gotta pay for the tags we get regardless. How much, is just personal choice. Correction, in America wildlife DOES belong to the pubic, INCLUDING the guy with the biggest wallet. -~|-


Ok...I'll bite. The bait looked good, but tastes like ****! In America the wildlife DOES belong to the public, INCLUDING the guy with the biggest wallet...but why does that mean we have to exclude the guy with the littlest wallet? Sure, other tags were given in a draw for the same hunt...BUT, those tags sold at auctions who are they sold to? Are they sold to everyone equally at the same price...or, are they set aside just for the guy with the biggest wallet?

Better yet, those auction tags that sell for such high prices....would they sell for those prices if thousands of general season tags weren't cut to produce trophy quality animals? If the quality of the deer on the Henry's unit were much lower and far more general season tags were given out, would the auction tags sold for that unit sell for such high prices? So, the general season hunter is sacrificing his/her tag so that the guy with the biggest wallet can hunt a trophy in the name of conservation? Yeah, I know, I know...we receive lots of dollars from these tags and lots of good has been done by the money earned from them that has benefitted wildlife; I don't disagree. HOWEVER, in no way, shape, or form, do I believe the ends justify the means! IF those guys with big wallets are such conservationists with such good in mind for their quarry, why don't they just donate the money to wildlife and get in line with the rest of us? Is it because they feel entitled to something that the rest of us can't have...?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Ok...I'll bite. The bait looked good, but tastes like ****! In America the wildlife DOES belong to the public, INCLUDING the guy with the biggest wallet...but why does that mean we have to exclude the guy with the littlest wallet? Sure, other tags were given in a draw for the same hunt...BUT, those tags sold at auctions who are they sold to? Are they sold to everyone equally at the same price...or, are they set aside just for the guy with the biggest wallet? Is this America or not? Does not wealth afford people MORE opportunity in most cases in this country? Do not kids with wealthy parents get better education opportunities, more opportunities to go to Disneyland, more opportunities to go to exotic places, more states to hunt, than kids with poor/homeless parents? EVERY citizen who is allowed to hunt has EQUAL opportunity to acquire a conservation tag. Equal opportunity is NOT what you are wanting, you want to LIMIT the opportunities of those who have the means to take advantage of the opportunities that are out there.
> 
> Better yet, those auction tags that sell for such high prices....would they sell for those prices if thousands of general season tags weren't cut to produce trophy quality animals? If the quality of the deer on the Henry's unit were much lower and far more general season tags were given out, would the auction tags sold for that unit sell for such high prices? So, the general season hunter is sacrificing his/her tag so that the guy with the biggest wallet can hunt a trophy in the name of conservation? Yeah, I know, I know...we receive lots of dollars from these tags and lots of good has been done by the money earned from them that has benefitted wildlife; I don't disagree. HOWEVER, in no way, shape, or form, do I believe the ends justify the means! IF those guys with big wallets are such conservationists with such good in mind for their quarry, why don't they just donate the money to wildlife and get in line with the rest of us? Is it because they feel entitled to something that the rest of us can't have...? Your using the Henry LE unit as an example is poor at best. The Henry LE unit is NOT LE as too get more money from conservation tags, it was set up as LE because that is what MANY "average Joe" hunters wanted and STILL want. The proof is in the number of applicants putting in for these LE units and the LACK of hunters showing up at public input meetings demanding doing away with such restrictions on tag numbers and the issuing of conservation tags on LE units.


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Kingfisher
Nice report on the snow levels from your fly over. Did you happen to see any good elk herds on Dutton? 
It seems I will be on Dutton with Stinky,Pro and Skull Crazy, yesterday my brother got his email confirming he got an early rifle tag.
Allen


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

yak4fish said:


> It seems I will be on Dutton with Stinky,Pro and Skull Crazy, yesterday my brother got his email confirming he got an early rifle tag.
> Allen


Awesome! Best of luck. 8)


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey Yak-
Just find the pimped out Mercury Sable on the mountain with the Porcupine Ridge sticker on the side and be glued to it everywehere it goes, you'll get a big stinky leftover! 

......be careful though, the "stinky leftover" just might be a day old processed Antimony burger!! -_O- -/O\- -~|- -/O_- -BaHa!-


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

Hay Krazy 
I went over to the dark side of Dutton one time and there were lots of stinky sheep over there. Now I here that there's bears on the dark side to. :shock: Now your tellen me there are porcupines on the ridges. :wink: A day old processed Antimony burger is better than cold Taco I just eat. _/O


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> SS QTPIE said:
> 
> 
> > Do they not have a draw for this same hunt SS paid for? Do all citizens not have a equal chance at a tag?(k dont answer this one cuz im beginning to wonder myself) Now im no math brain, but several tags being *sold* out of a hundred or so tags available seems quite fair to me. I see no difference in the two. Except some sucker (SS) is willing to "guarantee" a tag for himself with cold hard cash while the rest of us have to wait our turn. We all gotta pay for the tags we get regardless. How much, is just personal choice. Correction, in America wildlife DOES belong to the pubic, INCLUDING the guy with the biggest wallet. -~|-
> ...


I have a feeling we could argue logistics the rest of our lives. :roll: I have found people are either for or against, no changing minds. That being said, I will address my first issue with what you said. First of all yes, Mr. Sacker at the grocery store has the same opportunity as everyone else. All you people who dont agree with conservation tags always assume that the people who buy these tags are rich blow hards, who want recognition for being "super conservationists" with the added benefit of a great chance at a shot for a great bull. What makes you think SS is some loaded blow hard? How do you know that he did not pull together everything he had, or save for years, or have a rich aunt that died....you get the point. YES, everyone has a chance to bid. Do you not think SS had a certain point he could bid to and no more? EVERYONE has a chance. It is just a matter of what they are willing to sacrifice to make it happen. He got blessed this year. My answer to your second question: You are right, conservation tags would not bring in the money they do if general tags werent limited to produce trophy quality animals. On the flipside, how many people in state, and out, would even apply for the draw if Utah had no quality animals? Trophy quality animals = more money for the DWR. Now I don't know about you , and can speak only for myself here, but IF I drew a tag in the general draw I would want a shot at a trophy quality animal the same as conservation tags get. You people in Utah are so spoiled you dont know what you have (er had thanks to the now available 4 million spike tags). Here in NM we have no where near the quality or quantity of deer that you guys have. For years anyone could go to the store and buy a deer tag. No draw. Now we are doing good to see a deer, much less a trophy buck. Im just not sure what your argument is here....Please dont tell me your saying you would rather hunt sub-par elk every year rather than have to be patient and get to hunt a trophy???!!! If that is what your saying then it sounds like your real issue is with the draw system and not conservation tags. Lastly, I can tell you SS is no "conservationist". He is a die hard hunter, with no patience, things just fell into place and thats why he bought the tag. I seriously believe he could careless what they do with the money. You and all the other haters can't honestly tell me that if you had the means you would not buy the tag....and if you do, im not buying it!


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

yak4fish,
we just got the north end of the duttons to confirm the electronic reading on jones corral. a small herd of cows just up from east fork... looked to be feeding evenings and mornings in the fields next to the river. so really didnt get to see much of the area where elk would be. sorry.


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## Guest (May 1, 2009)

Dude get your butt back up there and over fly the dutton, all weekend! then call me and let me know what you saw. And if you post any pertinent info about big bulls on here I'll take your balls out of your wifes purse and smash em! -)O(-


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

stinky stinky stinky...
tsk tsk tsk...
all that emotion and only a social wildlife network site for outlet. must be a very delicate outfit you run with considering all the powder and lit fuses laying around. ill try not to step in your stinky poo man. all the big bulls were evenly distributed across all areas, but the really big ones, the 400+ ones, all 10 of them chained down and grain fed are here:
latitude 40 degrees, 39.474 minutes and longitude 118 degrees and 50.346 minutes. there was a guy with a banjo playing some hot licks and screamin squeal like a piggie nearby so be careful when you go lookin.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

My banjo is now in need of repair.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I heard a rumor them Dutton elk permits are getting cheaper by the day.


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> I heard a rumor them Dutton elk permits are getting cheaper by the day.


Thats because the last tag was purchased after "Team Porcupine" made it known Stinky had purchased a tag.
They KNEW we were going to take the biggest bull off that rock pile! -/O\-


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I was on the mountain a couple days ago. The south slopes are void of snow except in the shadows. The north slopes still have about 12" with some 18" drifts. The snow is melting quickly. There are still some snow drifts in the road that make traversing difficult. Hoodle creek section is still not passible for most vehicles. Elk and deer have returned to the tops. The animals are all looking healthy. Looks like it may be a good year!


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> Elk and deer have returned to the tops


 :shock: :shock: I was told there are no elk on the dutton.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> > Elk and deer have returned to the tops
> 
> 
> :shock: :shock: I was told there are no elk on the dutton.


There are no elk on Dutton, Joe is just joshing you. :wink:


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> There are no elk on Dutton, Joe is just joshing you.


Hummmm so hard to know what to belive these days.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Actually all the elk were hanging out near Bryce, Ruby's INN.
The Dutton is home only to baby bulls.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

The bigger bucks are beginning to show some growth. I saw a couple with heavy bases and about 4" of antler the other day. Most of the little bucks still look like does except when they lift their leg to pee. I sure was good to get out again.


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## Guest (May 7, 2009)

bnb08, are you trevor? I wouldn't post anything about deer. You do know skullcrazy has two dutton deer tags right? You better get out your map and start pointing or pre-pay your medical cafeteria plan before doug finds you lol.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

SS QTPIE said:


> bnb08, are you trevor? I wouldn't post anything about deer. You do know skullcrazy has two dutton deer tags right? You better get out your map and start pointing or pre-pay your medical cafeteria plan before doug finds you lol.


No his name is Joe, he killed a great bull down there last year with his bow. Great guy and a good friend of mine. 8)


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

How can 1 guy have 2 Dutton deer tags? I didn't say I saw those bucks on the Dutton! From my place there is a lot of country to cover between the Boulders, the Parker, the Dutton and So. end of Monroe. Good deer on all of them. Thanks Pro, hope to see you down there soon. Joe


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## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

I actually have three Southern Region tags, one for me, one for my son and the other for my little wife to be someday (if she can shoot!) we will be hunting deer on the Dutton.

There, are we all on the same page now??


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## EPEK (Sep 11, 2007)

How many rifle elk hunts have rifle deer hunters hunting along side them?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

EPEK said:


> How many rifle elk hunts have rifle deer hunters hunting along side them?


*ZERO!*


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