# Permanent Daylight Savings Time



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

If this passes, it will be weird in the winter months not having sunrises until almost 9:00 AM. Maybe sleep in longer, but it will suck getting home later. I hate the time change and I don’t care if it stayed on standard or daylight savings, just pick one and leave it alone.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

They tried it in the US... for 2 years. People hated it so much they went back to how it is now. People got much more depressed during winter months, much more dangerous for kids going to school in the dark, and had less daylight to get things done.

This idea is brought to you by people who dont study history.

-DallanC


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## DreadedBowHunter (Sep 22, 2021)

I kept my living room clock the same time when fall back bs was forced and I always looked at that clock to stay “on time” with my circadian rhythm and now that it’s spring forward I feel the same 😎 Some people would come to my house and think they were late for things but I told them I kept my clock the original time to not ruin my circadian rhythm 😆 Time doesn’t change because the government says so 🤦🏼‍♂️
There is a famous Native American saying of “Only the government can cut the top foot off a blanket and sew it on the bottom to say they have a longer blanket” 🤣


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

What boggles my mind is people fearing their lives are shortened by losing that hour... its scary those people actually get to vote in elections.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Back when I was a working man it didn't matter. I still had to show up at 7am and work until my work was done, it didn't matter if it was my quitting time of 3:30 or 9pm. During the winter months the only time that I saw my house in the daylight was on weekends if I wasn't working them. 

Now that I am retired it still doesn't matter. If I plan on doing something where I need to get up early I get up early and am gone. 

They claim it was for the farmer and field workers but the government forgot to explain just how they got more work done in the daylight when they worked from sunup to sundown anyway. Then there is the claim that you will use less electricity when on DST, I'd like to see a study on that one. It's a lot like the state of California wanting everyone to go total electric and then telling folks that they can't charge their vehicles tonight because the power grid is maxed out. Which is just what they did a week or so ago....I wonder what they are planning on doing when the rolling blackouts start this coming summer.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

It works for Arizona. It will work for us too.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Arizona stays on Mountain Standard Time


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

DallanC said:


> What boggles my mind is people fearing their lives are shortened by losing that hour... its scary those people actually get to vote in elections.
> 
> -DallanC


That's how Biden got in.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I prefer year round Daylight Savings while my wife would prefer Standard. I just want to be done with the changing the clock nonsense. Just choose a time and stick with it. Ultimately people will adapt and normalize it no matter what we do.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I also don’t care which way we go, I just want to go there and stay there.

Funny thing about daylight savings time: regardless of what time the clock reads, there is still the same amount of sunlight.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Critter said:


> Arizona stays on Mountain Standard Time


Except on the Navajo Reservation....which has daylight savings. Talk about confusing...

As an educator, I will always be in favor of the time changes. Without daylight savings time, we open up a huge can of worms with the education of kids.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> As an educator, I will always be in favor of the time changes. Without daylight savings time, we open up a huge can of worms with the education of kids.


Educate me. This is a statement I have not heard before. How does daylight savings time help with educating kids?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

The biggest practical thing behind daylight savings time is trying to maximize efficiency in the power grid. It's a small, but still significant, measurable effect on power usage. That being said, I would prefer to stay on standard but would rather stay on daylight time than this flip flopping nonsense. I thought I hated it when I lived in Utah, but holy balls is it pointless up in Alaska where we never have normal daylight anyway


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I'm curious as well. At least in Iron Co we've already got it wrong by brain science studies. Our HS kids start early and ES kids start late, that's backwards by sleep needs.

But I could very easily be missing something as I know my wife's school has perennial debates about the subject.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyoming2utah said:


> Except on the Navajo Reservation....which has daylight savings. Talk about confusing...
> 
> As an educator, I will always be in favor of the time changes. Without daylight savings time, we open up a huge can of worms with the education of kids.


That is true, but the Hopi Reservation which sits inside of the Navajo Reservation switches back and forth. Which gets even more confusing

I can understand the Navajo Reservation switching since it covers three different states 2 of which change back and forth


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Educate me. This is a statement I have not heard before. How does daylight savings time help with educating kids?


 I worded my original post poorly and stated my opinion poorly. I am agains permanent daylight savings time.

It's all tied to sleep. Permanent daylight savings time means that kids will go to bed later because it gets dark later and have a harder time getting up early because it is dark later. Studies are showing that students get less sleep which ultimately affects their education negatively.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I don’t mind going back and forth myself, it never has bothered me. I just don’t fret over it. But, if I have to pick......Daylight Savings year round, all day. I like the evening light. It’s productive for me. 
The body will adjust pretty quickly.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Some like the light lasting later into the day and others prefer for it to be in the morning. 

During the summer months I try to get all my work done in the mornings when it is cool, then at night I can kick back and relax. So my productive time is early instead of later.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

2full said:


> I don’t mind going back and forth myself, it never has bothered me. I just don’t fret over it. But, if I have to pick......Daylight Savings year round, all day. I like the evening light. It’s productive for me.
> The body will adjust pretty quickly.


Yea me too. I have no problem shifting my schedule back and forth, heck don't we all do it for hunting seasons?

-DallanC


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I still get my work done in the morning......
So I can go play I'm the evening.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

DallanC said:


> Yea me too. I have no problem shifting my schedule back and forth, heck don't we all do it for hunting seasons?
> 
> -DallanC


Yes, but in December/January it has been nice getting out of the marsh by 6:30-7:00 PM. If it changes it will be 7:30-8:00, then an hour drive home for me. No big deal! Might make it harder to get to those Holiday dinners on time though. I mean I don’t like leaving early when I’m hunting.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> .. had less daylight to get things done..
> 
> -DallanC


Does changing the clocks impact the amount of time the sun is in the air?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Time change studies have linked it to increased traffic accidents, higher rates of stroke, increase in heart attacks, miscarriages, and on and on.. 

To me, avoiding those increases outweigh a bunch of stuff. Arizona switched and has been fine, life goes on.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Does changing the clocks impact the amount of time the sun is in the air?


No... but when you get up depending on the time, changes how much exposure you get to daylight.

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Time change studies have linked it to increased traffic accidents,


Interesting, as that is why they got rid of permanent daylight savings when they tried it for 2 years, especially among kids walking to school in the dark. That was in 1974... imagine how much worse the traffic is now compared to then.









The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the ’70s. People Hated It - Washingtonian


The sun rose at 8:27 AM on January 7, 1974. Children in the Washington area had left for school in the dark that morning, thanks to a new national experiment during a wrenching energy crisis: most of the US went to year-round daylight saving time beginning on January 6. "It was jet black"...




www.washingtonian.com





We'll no doubt see permanent daylight savings... and odds are, it will get ****canned again after a couple years of trial.

-DallanC


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## Old Cowboy (Oct 19, 2021)

Change the time school starts or the time you report for work or the time church starts but leave the damned clock alone.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Old Cowboy said:


> Change the time school starts or the time you report for work or the time church starts but leave the damned clock alone.


This guys gets it! We act like school start times are unchangeable--they can totally be changed and honestly ought to be pushed back. Times have changed a lot since the 70's--doubt nearly as many kids now walk to school now as they did back then.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

The sleep issue with teenagers is a really underappreciated issue. And school times affect a lot of other societal issues. So I definitely get the concern but I say rip off the band-aid and force us to deal with it all. 

And we've adapted to bigger changes. I don't think history predicts much on how this will succeed or fail in this situation. 

*My understanding on studies about time switches are the impact is very temporary and is likely counterbalanced over the long run. But I still say kill the ridiculous tradition.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

You want screwed up. How about rotating shifts? Also a lot of people work 4 - 10's or alternating 3-12's, 4-12's. which lend themselves to dark coming and going no matter what time is in force. But for sure not changing back and forth is the easiest adjustment.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

middlefork said:


> You want screwed up. How about rotating shifts? Also a lot of people work 4 - 10's or alternating 3-12's, 4-12's. which lend themselves to dark coming and going no matter what time is in force. But for sure not changing back and forth is the easiest adjustment.


That would be tough leaving in the dark and coming home in the dark. I can remember my dad telling me he was in Iceland for awhile in WW2 . He told me it was daylight at 2 in the morning and they were playing baseball


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

middlefork said:


> You want screwed up. How about rotating shifts? Also a lot of people work 4 - 10's or alternating 3-12's, 4-12's. which lend themselves to dark coming and going no matter what time is in force. But for sure not changing back and forth is the easiest adjustment.


I had one job that switched between just about every variation of scheduling over the course of 8-10 weeks (can't remember length of cycle). The 3 day work weeks were brutal as it was exactly as you described plus the drive to and from work site was an hour to go 20 miles because of dense fog and moose everywhere. I only worked there one winter and it hurt. 

It was fun to backcountry ski through 6-8' tall pinwheels on my off days. PNW lifestyle is different.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

So…..you are saying Arizona’s kids are smarter than Utah/Idaho/Wyoming/etc kids?
Or dumber?


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## Slayer (Feb 3, 2013)

Here’s An old indian story that I heard before in Arizona that relates to this… if you take a blanket, and cut off 1 foot at the end of the blanket, and then reattach that section to the opposite end of the blanket. It doesnt make the blanket any longer!!!

Stop changing times. It doesnt get anymore daylight in the day by changing times.

I vote for daylight savings time permanently. I don’t like coming home from work when its dark outside. When I go to work its dark at that time anyway.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Why not just go back to the old Mountain Standard Time that was original time zone when the government and railroads came up with it?


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

DallanC said:


> What boggles my mind is people fearing their lives are shortened by losing that hour... its scary those people actually get to vote in elections.
> 
> -DallanC


Yep. And we know who they voted for.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

*Does changing the clocks impact the amount of time the sun is in the air*?

There isn't air in space. Had to say it, just being a smart A$$

I was always under the impression that the change was put into place to help the farmers out. I know a little about farming, and the time the sun rose didn't make a hoot. I was always up before the sun rose working, and after it went down. So, this reason has to be a wives tail.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Yeah, farmers were actually against making it permanent after WWI.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

If we have to choose between the two, I like DST. I don't want it to be light at 4:30am in the summer and dark at 8:20pm. I want the sunlight hours to correspond when I do things and the things I do many times revolve around the schedule of society. Same amount of light- yes; timing of that light- no. 
I also don't get the uproar to lose sleep one time a year. People regularly stay up 2-3 hours later at night at various times throughout the year, yet change the wake-up time once and everyone is living 3 less years..... 
I don't understand it, but I'll play along if we make DST the permanent time and not MST.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Circadian rhythm is a real thing. When you stay up late the rest of the daily schedule stays the same. When you shift time back and forth the body requires time to adapt. For some people that's as quick as 1 day for others, like me, it's normally 2-3 day, which is better than those who suffer for 1-2 weeks and deal w/ headaches, etc.

Those of us who have more sensitive rhythms often go out of our way to avoid such disturbances. It's one of the reasons I hate long distance travel over short periods.

*It's also why I love camping as it's the fastest way for me to reset. When we can I always plan a camping trip around the time change.


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## BGD (Mar 23, 2018)

Packout said:


> If we have to choose between the two, I like DST. I don't want it to be light at 4:30am in the summer and dark at 8:20pm. I want the sunlight hours to correspond when I do things and the things I do many times revolve around the schedule of society. Same amount of light- yes; timing of that light- no.
> I also don't get the uproar to lose sleep one time a year. People regularly stay up 2-3 hours later at night at various times throughout the year, yet change the wake-up time once and everyone is living 3 less years.....
> I don't understand it, but I'll play along if we make DST the permanent time and not MST.


 I’m with Packout on this one. A majority of mine and my families schedules are set by others. School, church, businesses, work, etc. To maximize daylight hours according to societies scheduling norms, we change our clocks twice a year. To be honest, I don’t understand what all the whining is about. I do see down sides to sunrise happening 1.5 hours into my kids school day during some times of the year. I personally like the extra daylight in the evenings because I have I have more discretion deciding what I do with my evening time since much of my morning schedule is dictated by others. A bit of extra light in the evenings during the summer and early fall also makes it easier to take a quick evening fishing or hunting trip. That is a huge plus for me.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I can see the argument for or against changing daylight savings. Personally, I don't give a ****. Been setting the clock spring foward fall backward for as long as I can remember. Used to it, don't give a ****. There's much bigger issues these days then daylight savings time.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

Old Cowboy said:


> Change the time school starts or the time you report for work or the time church starts but leave the damned clock alone.


The whole point is having extra time in the evening. Start work hour later defeats the purpose of daylight saving time.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I generally dislike Chuck Todd... but this is a good explanation of whats going to happen:





__





One problem with permanent Daylight Saving Time: Geography






www.msn.com





-DallanC


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

The evening hunts will be more crowded with the extra hour with those who would have not time to hunt getting of work to late to make it out.
With shooting time approaching 8:30am this will benefit people not liking getting up early and those who get out late just at shooting time. Will it make morning hunts more crowded?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

GoosesNightMare said:


> The evening hunts will be more crowded with the extra hour with those who would have not time to hunt getting of work to late to make it out.
> With shooting time approaching 8:30am this will benefit people not liking getting up early and those who get out late just at shooting time. Will it make morning hunts more crowded?


As has been mentioned there is only going to be xx amount of daylight during the hunting seasons. What does it matter if the sun comes up a 5am or 6am, if you plan on being out there when it comes up you are going to be there. Same with the sunset, if you hunt until after dark then you hunt until after dark.

A lot of business may adjust their hours also. What good does it do to have someone show up to a outside job when it is dark at 7am, they will just have those folks show up at 8am and work until 4:30 instead of 3:30


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> A lot of business may adjust their hours also. What good does it do to have someone show up to a outside job when it is dark at 7am, they will just have those folks show up at 8am and work until 4:30 instead of 3:30


It amuses me how people want to stop the time change twice a year, yet propose altering work hours, school hours and business hours to adjust for sunrise. That's really just the same thing as leaving daylight savings as it is.

-DallanC


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Lone_Hunter said:


> There's much bigger issues these days then daylight savings time.


Disagree. This may be comes a single issue vote for me going forward.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

What will be the new appropriate time to start mowing your lawn? That's going to really screw up my schedule. And I was planning getting 3 string trimmers!


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

JerryH said:


> What will be the new appropriate time to start mowing your lawn? That's going to really screw up my schedule. And I was planning getting 3 string trimmers!


I say keep it simple. Sunrise to sunset or alternatively 1/2 hour before and after.


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## GoosesNightMare (Dec 7, 2017)

Critter said:


> As has been mentioned there is only going to be xx amount of daylight during the hunting seasons. What does it matter if the sun comes up a 5am or 6am, if you plan on being out there when it comes up you are going to be there. Same with the sunset, if you hunt until after dark then you hunt until after dark.
> 
> A lot of business may adjust their hours also. What good does it do to have someone show up to a outside job when it is dark at 7am, they will just have those folks show up at 8am and work until 4:30 instead of 3:30


Not everyone thinks that way with getting up early to hunt. Those who did not get of work early enough will be able to hunt in the evening. Closing time 5.00 pm and now it will be 6:00 pm. This will allow me to hunt in the evening during the weekdays in December.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

JerryH said:


> What will be the new appropriate time to start mowing your lawn? That's going to really screw up my schedule. And I was planning getting 3 string trimmers!



the answer to this question has nothing to do with time. The answer is: my closest neighbor is 10 acres away! I'll mow the lawn any **** time I want!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Everyone says that until you get this neighbor 🤣 






-DallanC


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

PBH
It was my way of poking fun at the new change


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> Everyone says that until you get this neighbor 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There goes half my day looking at mud mowers.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

JerryH said:


> PBH
> It was my way of poking fun at the new change


I got it.

I was just pointing out that not having neighbors is AWESOME!

Whatever happens with the time format -- I'm sure that I'll survive.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Aside from the medical issues that are linked to the time change being a benefit of getting rid of it....

I selfishly have been thinking about the extended. I usually ditch work early here and there and cruise up to the hill. That extra hour would be nice for me personally - a little extra chase time


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I think it will make getting out in the marsh closer to sunrise late in the season easier. Not a morning person.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

The anti-DST folks do have a strong argument for those of us on the western side of time zones. It pains me to do it but I even told my wife she was correct when I saw these sites 🤣









SAVE STANDARD TIME: CHART


Chart of sunrise times in Standard Time versus Daylight Saving.




savestandardtime.com













Where Mornings Would Get Darker Under Permanent Daylight Saving Time


Most Americans support eliminating the twice-annual changing of the clocks. But maps show how the daylight saving bill passed by the Senate would affect some cities more than others.




www.bloomberg.com





I'm firmly in the camp of brutally killing the time change with a public ceremony like old roman gladiators use to do. But I'm thinking Standard time would be healthier for my household. I can even feel the difference of DST right now that I'm getting up more to take care of my toddler before sunrise.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

backcountry said:


> The anti-DST folks do have a strong argument for those of us on the western side of time zones. It pains me to do it but I even told my wife she was correct when I saw these sites 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I prefer getting home an hour earlier from afternoon/evening duck hunts.


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