# FFP vs SFP



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Just read an article on how first focal plane is starting to dominate in the hunting world, so I am curios to see how many on here are running FFP. My scopes are all SFP but have been thinking about building a long range gun and slapping an FFP on it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

You can range find off the subtend on a SFP scope. Harder to do that with FFP. A few other tricks with SFP scopes too... but, its all user preference I guess. I've never had the need for a FFP scope. I dont think I've ever even met someone who owns a FFP.

For those that dont understand what we're talking about, its basically if the crosshairs zoom with increasing the power adjustment on a scope ie:










-DallanC


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

That zoom in and out on the crosshairs is what kept me away from it, I feel the reticle is too large on its highest magnification and too small on its lowest


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Also, your math skills are beyond mine good sir, you’re gonna have to teach me your ways


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

I run both, but on my hunting guns I only run a SFP. I won't shoot an animal past a certain distance and that distance doesn't require high magnification. So as you pointed out, my FFP scope reticle would be too fine for my liking at the lower magnification. 

DC, I always thought it was the opposite. On a FFP my subtensions are always the same value, no matter what the magnification where as a SFP the subtends change value depending on my magnification. So for a FFP if I assume a deer is 22" from chest to top of back, I can divide 22 by the number of 1 moa subtensions he's covering in my scope times 100 will get me close enough in yards. But on a SFP scope I need to know how many mils or moa the subtensions span for each magnification, then do the same process but with much more difficult math since a subtension at the magnification I'm using might be 2.325 moa instead of an even number. 

Either way, I wouldn't trust myself to do that kind of math and get it right in the field when my adrenaline is pumping and the animal is moving toward cover.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I use a FFP (Athlon Cronus) with adjustable top turret that goes back to a zero stop in MIL reticle. As long as I can get a range on the target or animal, I make the adjustment with xxxxx clicks for the range and pull the trigger. The longest shot I've taken on an animal was at 763 yards and the bullet hit the mark (.30cal 190 Berger VLD Hunter) and it dropped where it stood. I don't recommend taking extreme shots on animals (500 and longer for the "average" hunter that shoots a weapon once a year) unless the shooter knows the rifle and has the skill to make a shot at that range PROFICIENTLY!!! Steel doesn't move and ramp up the heart and breathing of a shooter. Elk will do it every time, If it doesn't....its time to take up knitting IMO. 

I know after seeing what that 190 Berger did to the spike bull, they are total devastation! After seeing the destruction it created I was going to pull the bullets and go back to Partitions. But I'd rather sacrifice a front quarter and not have to possibly track a wounded animal.


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

From my understanding, ranging with FFP scopes is far superior as you can range at any magnification if you know the size of the target. That is one of the primary reasons they are favored and used in PRS where time can matter. Plus if you are holding over at all, the FFP is going to be more accurate no matter your magnification. 

For most hunting situations, where you are more likely to shoot in low light conditions (first light, last light) a SFP Scope is going to be easier and better to use unless you have illumination. There is also a lot to be said about a simpler reticle for hunting situations and ranges.

I use both but most of hunting rifles have SFP scopes. My biggest complaint is that most FFP scopes with exposed turrets don't lock, and even with a zero stop I don't want any question if the dial moved if I need to take a quick shot. But this year I've put an Athlon Helos Gen2 4-20 on my .300wm and I love that scope. So much so that I'm considering the 2-12 to replace some of my FFP scopes. Is it alpha level glass, no, but its surprisingly good for what you pay IMO. The illumination makes me confident in low light situations, but when I need to hold I know the sub tensions are correct and I don't need to tinker with dialing. I have my drop chart memorized and can hold when I don't have time to dial. 

They both have a place, and I think it depends on the purpose of the rifle regarding what scope you put on it. For dedicated hunting rifles, SFP is better IMO. For lightweight builds, SFP is lighter for now and will be better. For LR Hunting or shooting, FFP is superior. It depends on your style and purpose for the gun.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Personally, I wouldn't run a FFP optic unless I was mounting it on an AR15 for shorter ranges, AND for medium to long range. The reticle shrinks to the point where it basically becomes a red dot. I need reading glasses, just to see the subtensions on a FFP optic that isn't zoomed all the way out. It's basically what is called an LPVO (low power variable optic) in the tactical world. Gives you the ability to shoot up close in CQB, and engage up to medium-ish ranges (600 yrds or so).

From a practical standpoint, I find I favor fixed power optics. Mainly because, I find I'm either either zoomed all the way in, or all the way, and only occasionally in between. In the heat of the moment, adjusting the power of my glass is one of the last things I think about. Besides that, fixed power glass tends to be lighter, more reliable, with better light transmission. Unfortunately, most of the hunting market is variable power.

The one FFP scope I had, I just didn't like it. Ended up ebaying it. All my rifles now wear either a fixed power prism scope (X3, and an X5), and a 3-9X50, SFP.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I hear the argument all the time that FFP is superior because it remains properly calibrated and accurate at all magnifications, which I understand but I never shoot at an in between magnification, I’m either zoomed all the way in or all the way out. When zoomed all the way in, all hold overs on an SFP are accurate and correct, meaning, a rifle scope with hash marks representing .25 MOA across the horizontal line will will represent .25 MOA at maxed out magnification, so In that instance, it doesn’t matter if it’s ffp or SFP, when I have it zoomed all the way out, it’s so close it doesn’t even matter.

So then for me, it boils down to which reticle I prefer, which is a fixed


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

What is the price difference in FFP and SFP scopes? I've really never compared. SFP are so common they are getting really cheap for the quality (ie: for example a Vortex lifetime warranty diamond back is better than a 1970s Leupold Gold ring VXII)

-DallanC


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

It can be several hundred dollars, here’s a screenshot I just took on vortex


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## taskswap (Mar 11, 2021)

I own an FFP. It was on sale.  I've come to like it but don't think either one is really all that critical for the hunting I do.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Last year I switched to a fixed power scope and I love it! Plenty of magnification for the long range stuff I do and not too much power for the close range stuff. When running a variable power scope, I found myself always keeping it turned up to the highest power. Lots of choices out there to keep everyone happy!


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

I don't have a need for ffp. Sfp is better for my application of sub 500yd hunting. If I'm subtending, I'm always dialed up. When hunting I'm always dialed down to the lowest power. Turn it up if beyond 250. In the low light it's difficult to see ffp reticles dialed down. At high power it's uncomfortable to see a huge plus sign over the torso of an animal. To each their own but ffp is reserved for competition an target only applications for me.


I should also mention I prefer to dial my shots over 250 yards. I run scopes with exposed turrets mostly. I prefer capped windage and hold off in the field.


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