# nice work DWR!!



## Guest (Sep 20, 2010)

the DWR has "managed" the Plateau antelope herd to extinction. i drove around for 6.5 hours yesterday hunting with my brother and saw a total of 20 goats, with only 3 legal bucks. they gave way too many permits for goats that dont exist. now its worse then the general rifle deer hunt. theres guys, trucks and ATVs on every hill. a LE hunt should not be like this. that use to be a really fun hunt with tons of animals, now there is nothing. ive hunted antelope alot down there and that was the saddest and most pathetic hunt i have been on. its just proof that the DWR really is in it for the money and not managing animals the way they should be. statewide, they have shot the deer herds to pieces, looks like they have done a nice job with killing all the antelope and the elk hunting is falling apart in some areas too... all because they give way too many permits! in their eyes, more permits=more money. thats all they care about. something is very wrong with the way they do things and needs to be fixed!!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Wow. That's interesting. I saw lots of goats on the Griffin during the hunt....


FWIW -- the Plateau herd is one of the most prolific antelope herds in the West. If the DWR was able to get this herd down under their management objective, I imagine that it won't take long for it to grow to the point of annual trapping and transplanting again...

Hunting isn't always easy. We all have bad hunts some years. I guess you have to blame someone.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I was down there last year and after the opening day you needed to get off of the road to find them. The smaller heards were staying in smaller pockets and you couldn't see them from the road. Not to mention that we were finding them all the way up into the pines and quakies. Just remember this uint is a large one and you may need to do a little hiking across the flats to find them. I do agree that on the opening day you would of thought that there was a ATV convention with all of them running around but that was only on the first Saturday.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2010)

it was pretty sad. i have the best binos and spotting scope money can buy and we still couldnt glass up hardly any. we went everywhere to look for them. up high in the pines, down low in the cedars and everywhere in between. we had to put on a 1.5 mile stalk to get the one we did kill. almost everyone we talked to said no one was killing anything and that they were very upset with the numbers they saw of goats and people.


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

Sorry but when you stated, " I DROVE around for 6.5 hours hunting with my brother....", you kinda lost credibility. 
I know that is my opinion and you can tell me to stick it if you like. There are more than enouph antelope on that unit to support as many tags as they have. You just might have to HUNT on a HUNT, go figure? Sorry for ticking you off in advance, I know your hunt has not gone as planned thus far.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2010)

clean pass through said:


> Sorry but when you stated, " I DROVE around for 6.5 hours hunting with my brother....", you kinda lost credibility.
> I know that is my opinion and you can tell me to stick it if you like. There are more than enouph antelope on that unit to support as many tags as they have. You just might have to HUNT on a HUNT, go figure? Sorry for ticking you off in advance, I know your hunt has not gone as planned thus far.


how else do you hunt antelope?? do you walk down the roads?? this isnt elk or deer hunting. unless sitting in a ground blind hunting with archery equipment, you drive around so you can cover and look at more area in a shorter amount of time. THEN you get out and try a stalk. i shouldnt have to walk a 15 year old kid to death in order to kill a goat. thats not any fun for anyone. everyone who hunts goats is guilty of road hunting. except for you, your the 1 guy who hunts antelope on foot the minute he gets off the pavement. good luck with that


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

I was down there during the spring bear hunts and seen a ton of goats all over the place. So I don't think the numbers are as bad as you think they are. 
I watch the herds on the San Rafeal North unit all the time(since I live close) and I haven't seen hardly any goats this year. But I have noticed alot more water this year than in most and when I got out and hiked and found these remote ponds and pools of water I started to find the antelope. I think because there is more water in remote areas where they can hide, they are staying in these areas longer than in years past.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Oh and a 15 year old should be able to go on a good hike without hiking him to death. Thats what you will be doing on any deer or elk hunt he will be going on.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I am pretty sure that there is not a single antelope in the whole state of Utah, so to have seen 20 is amazing! :mrgreen: Maybe you were referring to the pronghorn?? I checked the proc and sure enough, the DWR does not issue a single permit. Sorry, I had to, officially there are zero antelope in Utah, the pronghorn is is no way related to the antelope from Africa.


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> it was pretty sad. i have the best binos and spotting scope money can buy and we still couldnt glass up hardly any. we went everywhere to look for them. up high in the pines, down low in the cedars and everywhere in between. we had to put on a 1.5 mile stalk to get the one we did kill. almost everyone we talked to said no one was killing anything and that they were very upset with the numbers they saw of goats and people.


You might be a road hunter if....... a 1.5 mile hike is a death march.
With that many people your seeing drive the roads, they must be off the roads.

Sorry for joking.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

katorade said:


> You might be a road hunter if....... a 1.5 mile hike is a death march.
> With that many people your seeing drive the roads, they must be off the roads.
> 
> Sorry for joking.


I have not ever hunted them myself, but from three friends who have, they did not have to do any real hunting. All three simply spotted them from the road and then made a stalk within shooting distances. I believe I would do it the same way from my limited experience in seeing pronghorn's habitat.


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

Huge I would hunt them the same way also, but if I wasn't seeing anything I would change it up.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

katorade said:


> Huge I would hunt them the same way also, but if I wasn't seeing anything I would change it up.


Can't argue with that; that is the definition of insanity I reckon, to expect a different result when the method is still the same...


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

True about most people road hunting for "Pronghorn" but if it is not working, change up. The animals are there. You just have to find them. 

Did you do any homework before you went down? I have a friend that called me Sunday night and asked how to get down there when he was in passing Loa. Guess he didn't do any scouting and sorry to say it will take a little more effort than he thought as well. 

Just for a hint I have observed Pronghorn up on top of Boulder all the way down the west side of the mountain. Trees, and change of topography. Not saying you need to drag a 15 year old all over in the desert just far enouph off the road to get a better look into areas not seen off the road. Plus if your 15 year old is healthy and full of energy he could probably out hike 95% of us on UWN because of old injuries when we were young are starting to catch up to us. Mabey, I am just speaking for myself on that one.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

> Bigbr Friday 9/17/10 in the post "No Mule Deer":
> 
> I am of the opinion that we have managed to manage hunter's right out of the sport of hunting with the restrictive seasons and shortened hunts. I would not mind so much not hunting deer every year if I could hunt another big game animal once in three years, but omg I do not see the deer herds increasing at all under the caps. And there is no reason in the world that Utah should not be the antelope capitol of the world _*other than we seem to grow our moose and antelope for trade goods for turkeys and a few sheep*_. Has anybody been down on the Parker and seen how we have ranched the antelope right off the mountain. I do not think they left enough antelope down there for seed and you had better bring the long range artillery because they are on the run at the first sight of any human activities. There is no reason for moose or goats to be a once in a life time hunt and speed goats should be on the menu at least once in every five years. If we can't have mule deer every two years give us some diversity of species like speed goats. :evil:


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> the DWR has "managed" the Plateau antelope herd to extinction.
> ...that use to be a really fun hunt with tons of animals, now there is nothing. ive hunted antelope alot down there and that was the saddest and most pathetic hunt i have been on. its just proof that the DWR really is in it for the money and not managing animals the way they should be. statewide, they have shot the deer herds to pieces, looks like they have done a nice job with killing all the antelope...





kill_'em_all said:


> it was pretty sad....we had to put on a 1.5 mile stalk to get the *one we did kill*. ...


sounds to me like you are part of your own problem!! If you are that concerned that people have killed off all the antelope, why in the world did you kill one yourself???

Here's one that got away. He was way, way, way back in the pines (not the best video in the world...): http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k32/P ... D00004.mp4

If the doe antelope hunts have done the job they were intended to do (get the herd back to the management objective), then why is that such a bad thing? This herd is the largest in the state. They trap and transplant from this herd each year. It is way over objective. So, I can't see that your complaints are something that is a bad thing. If numbers are down, it will only take a couple years for those numbers to come back -- this herd is one of the most prolific in the West. My own personal experience this year was that the antelope were harder to find -- not that they weren't there. Increased hunting pressure for the last 4 years could certainly be the reason. Aren't these hunts intended to be a challenge?


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I know the numbers are down from years past, But that is what the DWR wanted. They just don't understand how people down there hate them and shoot them like rabbits.


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## Fishracer (Mar 2, 2009)

Here we go again..... Someones hunt was to HARD or they didnt have the whole place to themselves so it has to be the dwr's fault. Does not even sound liked you hunted, just drove around and then god forbid , you had to walk to shot one. I have been experiencing low number of animals this year ie deer and elk. I put blame on the weather. There is alot of water out there. More then in past years. Thats what makes it hunting. You never know how its going to go. Hunting is very unpredictable.


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## Caddis36 (Oct 26, 2007)

Well they just cancelled the Antless Pronghorn HUnt #886 because of lack of antelope. SO take that for what's it worth.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

So, they cancelled the antlerless hunt. Doesn't that mean that they do care, and that they are trying to keep the herd within their management objective?? Sounds pretty counter to the theory of giving out tags for the money.

Again, good job DWR.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2010)

Caddis36 said:


> Well they just cancelled the Antless Pronghorn HUnt #886 because of lack of antelope. SO take that for what's it worth.


huh... so apparently im not the only one who has the opinion that there are no goats down there. emergency hunt closures arent done for the hell of it... maybe its cuz theres no goats left??

some people blame it on the "winter kill", i and others blame it on shooting it to ****. either way, the biologists who study this unit should have known how many goats they had before they issued tags for bucks and does. if they did have a bad winter kill, they should have had tag cuts. but if they dont give TAGS, they dont get MONEY. bewteen killing them off and trapping them and shipping them away in trade, that unit sucks now. very well done guys, you should be proud!!

and a side note, to the guy who asked if i put any time in scouting before the hunt, the answer is yes. im not the typical "Utard" who puts in for hunts when they dont even know where the unit is located or doesnt do any scouting before the hunt. i put my time in, i dont hunt roads and i hike many miles in rough country to hunt. but when we are hunting with the youth, it needs to be a fun, semi-easier hunt. kids dont want to walk forever, not see the animals they are after, and not have shot opportunities. kids wanna see lots of animals and they want to have opportunities at game. if the kids dont have fun, and they arent successful, they arent going to want to go anymore. you always hear "take a kid hunting" or "kids are the future of hunting", and i believe in that, but they wont want to go if its not fun. the first few hunts kids are on, they dont give a **** about the "experience", they care if they kill something or not. thats all they want. thats what hooks kids on hunting, not walking around in the trees or desert and not seeing anything. then as they get more experienced the success in a hunt goes from killing something to the experience, opportunities had and memories made in the field.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2010)

are they going to refund people who did have doe tags for the Plateau??


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## fishbate (Jan 18, 2008)

Caddis36 - Where did you hear about the cancellation? Do you have a link or an email stating that?


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

This is funny!! I don't have a clue about the herd down there but it seems like whenever the animals are not coporating it is the DWR's fault!! 
All they want is money so the just over sold tags to make extra money,,, ahahhaa!!! I'm not saying they do things perfect but do you really think they are that short sighted? You have to understand that the DWR are guys and gals like you and me and I really think they try to do what they think is best. They are going to get it wrong sometimes. Do you always do your job perfect? I know I don't, I make mistakes everyday and so do the people at the DWR. Everyone loves to just say they are all about the money but what if they didn't bring in money. Are you going to provide all the services they would have to cut?

Maybe they are total idiots and have no idea what they are doing, but the more I learn about how they do things the more I'm impressed.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

fishbate said:


> Caddis36 - Where did you hear about the cancellation? Do you have a link or an email stating that?


ya there is nothing on their web page about the cancellation. Post your proof please!


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2010)

go to the online version of the 2010 antlerless proc. on the dwr website. then go to the pronghorn hunts and number #886 has a line through it and next to it is says "canceled"


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/201 ... n_hunt.pdf

here is the info. Sucks


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## Kdub (Sep 6, 2010)

kill_'em_all said:


> Caddis36 said:
> 
> 
> > Well they just cancelled the Antless Pronghorn HUnt #886 because of lack of antelope. SO take that for what's it worth.
> ...


I was once that kid hunting and Im sure a lot of other avid hunting enthusiasts on here where once that kid too. Now I can't speak for everyone, but I didnt kill a deer for a long time. I put in grueling hikes and never saw an animal. I am no worse for the wear and still have a deep love for the sport.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

It just sounds like some people just want a easy hunt and no hunting is easy some days it is other it ant.That why it called hunting not shooting or killing.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

So -- kill 'em all: Are you happy? Or mad? It looks to me like the DWR has done exactly what you wanted done. So, is the title of your thread facetious? Or are you truly happy with what the DWR has done.

Sounds like maybe the DWR is more concerned about herd objectives than they are selling tags...


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2010_emergency/plateau_pronghorn_hunt.pdf
> 
> here is the info. Sucks


So are they going to refund those that have tags? I would think and maybe if/when they change the application period, they will have the herd numbers in before offering X amount of tags for a unit that can't afford X amount of animals to be harvested.


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> [quote="clean pass through":zg6sxu85]Sorry but when you stated, " I DROVE around for 6.5 hours hunting with my brother....", you kinda lost credibility.
> I know that is my opinion and you can tell me to stick it if you like. There are more than enouph antelope on that unit to support as many tags as they have. You just might have to HUNT on a HUNT, go figure? Sorry for ticking you off in advance, I know your hunt has not gone as planned thus far.


how else do you hunt antelope?? do you walk down the roads?? this isnt elk or deer hunting. unless sitting in a ground blind hunting with archery equipment, you drive around so you can cover and look at more area in a shorter amount of time. THEN you get out and try a stalk. i shouldnt have to walk a 15 year old kid to death in order to kill a goat. thats not any fun for anyone. everyone who hunts goats is guilty of road hunting. except for you, your the 1 guy who hunts antelope on foot the minute he gets off the pavement. good luck with that[/quote:zg6sxu85]

You have to hunt to hunt but kill 'em is right, there is no way you can hunt that area without putting miles on your truck or atv searching for a herd somewhere in the flats. I think you just got to stick with it and look at some more areas they may have moved to, that area definitly holds more than a few antelope. Good luck on your hunt


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> are they going to refund people who did have doe tags for the Plateau??


The addendum doesn't show that any tags were issued....was there even a draw for this hunt? It doesn't look like it to me.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

wyoming2utah said:


> kill_'em_all said:
> 
> 
> > are they going to refund people who did have doe tags for the Plateau??
> ...


I guess thats why I didn't draw that tag. It was there when you put your applications in. Did anybody draw it?


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## thanatos (Sep 13, 2007)

I helped a friend with this tag three years ago. She had an archery tag and MANY opportunities. I went back this year to help another friend with the same tag, and bumped into the DWR field guy for the area on one of the many scouting trips. We talked for some time. I asked him if the moisture had them scattered this year because we had not seen the numbers like in years past. I was told that the unit objective number has been set at 1200 animals for the area. In 2007 there were approx 3500 animals on the unit, so through hunts and animal trading the unit has been reduced by a lot. I dont think I would blame the DWR though ...The guy I talked to was not real happy with the 1200 number and told me it was not the number the DWR wanted for the area. He stated that land owners and cattlemen had pushed for that number, and most considered the prongs a pain and nuisance ..which he personally didnt understand. In no way am I picking a side here just thought I could add some info to the story


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## fishbate (Jan 18, 2008)

mikevanwilder said:


> wyoming2utah said:
> 
> 
> > kill_'em_all said:
> ...


My father, brother and nephews drew. I haven't talked to them if they have been notified. But if the herd is down, it is good to cancel and let the herd come back.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

thanatos said:


> The guy I talked to was not real happy with the 1200 number and told me it was not the number the DWR wanted for the area. He stated that land owners and cattlemen had pushed for that number, and most considered the prongs a pain and nuisance ..which he personally didnt understand.


 The farmers up near Howell and Snowville have the exact same sentiment. They have asked us to kill them all on sight and didn't care what we did with them.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

thanatos said:


> The guy I talked to was not real happy with the 1200 number and told me it was not the number the DWR wanted for the area. He stated that land owners and cattlemen had pushed for that number, and most considered the prongs a pain and nuisance ..which he personally didnt understand. In no way am I picking a side here just thought I could add some info to the story


You know that always seems right. Ranchers and farmers have alot of say into some of the herd numbers. Not sure as to what the reasoning behind this would be, not enough food for the cows plus the antelopes or damage to personal property?
This year I have been thinking alot about this exact thing. I hunted an any bull unit near my home that used to be from what I remember a LE hunting unit for elk. I remember going out with my dad and watching all the elk, about any evening you could go out and see bulls right off the road. Well I know that the herd was getting to big and farmers were complaining about the damages they were causing and the DWR did something(not sure what it was have heard alot of different stories). Now there is hardly an elk out there and they want all the ones that are still there eliminated. I talked with a farmer to try and find out if he has seen any. He told me were he had seen some months ago but none lately and if I did see them that I should shoot as many as I could. I asked why he was so bitter about the elk and he said that they eat all the graze that his cattle need to eat. This is BLM property and I said that it is as much your cattles feed as it is the elks. He then said that his cows had been there longer than the elk so they have more right to it. I couldn't argue that knowing that the elk where transplanted there. But still it is multiple use land and should be treated as so. Oh well though. I ended up not finding any elk saw alot of places I didn't know were there.


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

We hunted down there a few years ago. Its simple. The pronghorn hide from vehicles. Once I figured this out, we sat down in the middle of nowhere on a plateau and hid in the sage amonst thousands of tracks we found.

After about an hour, we glassed several vehicles several miles away. And here came the animals, sneaking way along this escapce route. We killed our pronghorn.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

I think you're running into the same problem we ran into a week ago in wyoming. We were on a unit that we KNOW holds a lot of pronghorn. But it took forever to start spotting them. With the pressure they've been receiving, the groups are singles, two's and three's. The other thing we found is that they aren't anywhere near where you'd expect to find them. Probably has to do with the fact that we all cruise, hike, glass, and drive around every square inch of the habitat we'd EXPECT to find them in. 

Start looking in small pockets and dips in the landscape just big enough to drop 3 or fewer pronghorn below the horizon and below where your binoculars are going to pick them out at half a mile. Look for any old eroded stream beds and channels in the landscape, because they get used as travel corridors to avoid being seen. Also try a LOT higher up than you would think possible. Chances are there are a handful of undisturbed animals using habitat bordering the aspens. 

Either way, good luck to everyone down there with a tag, and have fun with it, because in the end thats what it's all about.


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## dunn_gary (Sep 11, 2007)

thanatos said:


> I was told that the unit objective number has been set at 1200 animals for the area. In 2007 there were approx 3500 animals on the unit, so through hunts and animal trading the unit has been reduced by a lot. I dont think I would blame the DWR though ...The guy I talked to was not real happy with the 1200 number and told me it was not the number the DWR wanted for the area. He stated that land owners and cattlemen had pushed for that number, and most considered the prongs a pain and nuisance ..which he personally didnt understand. In no way am I picking a side here just thought I could add some info to the story


Interesting how the objective number keeps going down. Some years ago, I think it was about 3000 and there were estimated over 8000 animals at that time. That was about 20 years ago. Then it was lowered to 2000, and now 1200. I gues the ranchers won't be satisfied until the herd is wiped out. Too bad. It used to be a great place to hunt speed goats. Funny, when there were some 8000 there, I didn't notice any starving sheep or cattle! I wonder what the true reasoning by the ranchers and farmers is? They aren't like elk and destroy fences. Makes one wonder.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

thanatos said:


> I helped a friend with this tag three years ago. She had an archery tag and MANY opportunities. I went back this year to help another friend with the same tag, and bumped into the DWR field guy for the area on one of the many scouting trips. We talked for some time. I asked him if the moisture had them scattered this year because we had not seen the numbers like in years past. I was told that the unit objective number has been set at 1200 animals for the area. In 2007 there were approx 3500 animals on the unit, so through hunts and animal trading the unit has been reduced by a lot. I dont think I would blame the DWR though ...The guy I talked to was not real happy with the 1200 number and told me it was not the number the DWR wanted for the area. He stated that land owners and cattlemen had pushed for that number, and most considered the prongs a pain and nuisance ..which he personally didnt understand. In no way am I picking a side here just thought I could add some info to the story


No you must be wrong because it has to be the DWR's fault, it is always the DWR's fault!!!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

dunn_gary said:


> thanatos said:
> 
> 
> > I was told that the unit objective number has been set at 1200 animals for the area. In 2007 there were approx 3500 animals on the unit, so through hunts and animal trading the unit has been reduced by a lot. I dont think I would blame the DWR though ...The guy I talked to was not real happy with the 1200 number and told me it was not the number the DWR wanted for the area. He stated that land owners and cattlemen had pushed for that number, and most considered the prongs a pain and nuisance ..which he personally didnt understand. In no way am I picking a side here just thought I could add some info to the story
> ...


I'd be willing to bet the ranchers blame everything on the antelope just like hunters blame everything on the DWR!!


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## dunn_gary (Sep 11, 2007)

Definitely food for thought hoghunter!


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

Just talked to a guy I work with. He told me his dad shot a buck, ''13."" He told me he talked to people down there who were complaining about the same thing you all are. However he did as I would do. Change the game plan. Said he saw plenty of pronghorn to stalk every day untill they were able to get it done. His only complaint. He and his dad forgot to bring spotting scope, so many stalks were performed for no reason.


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## mr.seven (Sep 18, 2007)

heres something to think about how much money did the dwr recieve from application fees from successful and unsuccessful applicants for a hunt that they sould have known the numbers well before september 20th


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2010)

mr.seven said:


> heres something to think about how much money did the dwr recieve from application fees from successful and unsuccessful applicants for a hunt that they sould have known the numbers well before september 20th


+1! someone else gets it too!! exactly my point!!


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

mr.seven said:


> heres something to think about how much money did the dwr recieve from application fees from successful and unsuccessful applicants for a hunt that they sould have known the numbers well before september 20th


They better refund the money, its not the applicants fault they didn't have the herd numbers to still hold the hunt. If they don't refund the money I would be pretty pissed.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

mr.seven said:


> heres something to think about how much money did the dwr recieve from application fees from successful and *unsuccessful applicants* for a hunt that they sould have known the numbers well before september 20th


Unsuccessful- 0 dollars and zero cents.

People act as if the division is this super-funded giant that has employees in every nook and cranny of the state. THEY DON'T. They are a small government agency that pretty much funds itself and is doing the best that they know how. It's not some big government entity that swallows up tax payer money, it's a collection of individuals who implement policy and change to the best of their ability with a limited mount of funds funded partly by you whiny bitches that would piss and moan about pretty much anything.

Have a nice evening and try not to be disappointed by the life YOU created.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> mr.seven said:
> 
> 
> > heres something to think about how much money did the dwr recieve from application fees from successful and *unsuccessful applicants* for a hunt that they sould have known the numbers well before september 20th
> ...


 :shock: Tells us how you really feel. :mrgreen:


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

So if a guy bought a ticket for a concert and later the concert was canceled due to the fact the band couldn't get their instruments tuned, you wouldn't want your money back? If someone put in for a doe tag that is not available and they were unsuccessful, they should have their app fee refunded. Sure the DWR isn't a "super-funded giant" but, it is a government agency that should be held to a standard and accountable for short comings. True there are "whiny bitches" that would whine about being hung with a new rope but, that is another topic.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

For those who received tags for the cancelled hunt(s), certainly, refund their money. 

Unsuccessful applicants? The DWR Doesn't have any money to refund, because it Is illegal for them to take any money. Even so, who would trade 10 bucks for an accumulated point?

It's all part of trying to please everyone, while trying to implement sound biology.


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> For those who received tags for the cancelled hunt(s), certainly, refund their money.
> 
> Unsuccessful applicants? The DWR Doesn't have any money to refund, because it Is illegal for them to take any money. *Even so, who would trade 10 bucks for an accumulated point?*
> 
> It's all part of trying to please everyone, while trying to implement sound biology.


Good point


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2010)

theres a $10 application fee to ANYONE who applies for the hunt. so in a way, unsuccessful applicants paid money too. all that money adds up and goes somewhere...


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

kill_'em_all said:


> theres a $10 application fee to ANYONE who applies for the hunt. so in a way, unsuccessful applicants paid money too. all that money adds up and goes somewhere...


Yes, to Fallon, NV


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

mr.seven said:


> how much money did the dwr recieve from *application fees* from successful and unsuccessful applicants


Successful or unsuccessful doesn't matter. Application fees are not collected by the DWR. The third-party company that manages the draws for the DWR collect those fees. So, the DWR got $0 from application fees.



bugchuker said:


> So if a guy bought a ticket for a concert and later the concert was canceled due to the fact the band couldn't get their instruments tuned, you wouldn't want your money back?


Yes. I'd want my TICKET money back. But, that's not what people are asking about in this case. They are asking about the application fee.

Refund the tag money to those that drew the tag. But, as for the application fee -- I don't believe it should be refunded.

The easy solution to the application fee question is: bonus point. I would imagine that the DWR will refund any tag money, and then grant 1 bonus point to ALL applicants for this hunt. Sounds like a pretty reasonable solution to me.


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## Fishracer (Mar 2, 2009)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> mr.seven said:
> 
> 
> > heres something to think about how much money did the dwr recieve from application fees from successful and *unsuccessful applicants* for a hunt that they sould have known the numbers well before september 20th
> ...


+1
Could not not agree more.


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

PBH said:


> mr.seven said:
> 
> 
> > how much money did the dwr recieve from *application fees* from successful and unsuccessful applicants
> ...


My point was if there was no hunt to apply for there shouldn't have been an app fee, so unsuccessful or not should be refunded, but like was said earlier a bonus point is worth the $10 bucks so it isn't really an issue.


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