# 2013 hunter success rates--here ya go.



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

The 2013 hunter harvest data is posted up on the DWR site..

Found this one quite interesting for general deer hunts:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/2013/2013_gs_deer_hr.pdf

Heres all th LE & OIAL stuff:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-in...ting/big-game/1348-big-game-harvest-data.html

Enjoy!


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## horn hunter (Oct 30, 2013)

Those general season permit #s and success rates flat out piss me off. For a state that is hurting so bad for deer, they sure shot the hell out of them!!! They should be embarrased. Herd management my a ss! What a joke


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks for the link.

Those high success rates for the GS deer are a direct reflection of the solid fawn production of the past 3 years. They back-up what many have been saying for the past 3 years-- the deer herd is rebounding thanks to the favorable weather conditions supporting fawn recruitment. 

I have no doubt we'll hear how killing coyotes and micro units are the reason. While they might be a small reason, thanks go to Mother Nature.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Maybe there were more bucks to shoot. Sounds like people had a good general hunt. If they didnt kill everything it should be good this year as well. I just hope im not hunting general. With the success rate of the le unit I applied for sucking compared to previous years it should scare a few rifle tards from dropping down.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Packout said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Those high success rates for the GS deer are a direct reflection of the solid fawn production of the past 3 years. They back-up what many have been saying for the past 3 years-- the deer herd is rebounding thanks to the favorable weather conditions supporting fawn recruitment.
> 
> I have no doubt we'll hear how killing coyotes and micro units are the reason. While they might be a small reason, *thanks go to Mother Nature*.


I agree packout. I'm glad a bunch of hunters had successful hunts, good for them!:grin:


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

horn hunter said:


> Herd management my a ss! What a joke


Hey....leave me out of this!-----SS


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Did you see how high Monroe was, maybe #1DEER was right. There may be no bucks left on that unit. 
And then there's the West Desert West, what a tough hunt that one was.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't know about deer, but I can promise the spike success rate will be skyrocketing next year. I had to dig out some more pins for my bow. I'm getting down right damned good if I don't say so myself.----------SS


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## Yote238 (Jan 19, 2014)

The deer hunt last year was different. I had more people in 1 area. Not to sure about this 30 unit thing. I had people shooting right over my head at little 2 points. I did manage to get a nice 3x4 on the last day. We will see how it works out.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Hard to discount the fact that somewere aroud 10,000
coyotes have been killed since the bounty began ...
(this number inclueds bounty, non-bounty sport, & aerial gunning) 
That's one hell of ALOT of fawn killing dogs hitting the ground !!


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

There is a definite connection with the struggling buck to doe ratio units having an above average success ratio. One reason why these units struggle so bad and need some hunter management put in place.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

So whats the connection


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Goof any idea when the antlerless will be posted? I cant remember historically when they come out...


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

414 LE bulls killed on the Wasatch this year. How many did you have a hand in, Berry? What was the biggest you saw harvested?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> So whats the connection


Those units in general, have a lot of open terrain and the deer are predictable where they will show up. That's why places like the Book Cliffs and Vernon were closed after big fires and then re-opened as LE's because the success rate would have been really high.
Then politics got involved to keep them at LE status.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Haha TS I had a hand in 6 bulls. we did lose an archery bull that we think died, due to the rain tho we were unable to find it, the hunter left with his tag in hand. So counting that one 7. 

I know of 2 380+ bulls that were killed biggest I saw was mid 350's with a busted 2nd.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Of course the same people who think the DWR does no wrong, are the same people who come up with an excuse every time their wrong. I thought success rates were 20% guys, not 65%+. Weird isn't it, you just can't admit when you're wrong, some of you must work for the division.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

berrysblaster said:


> Haha TS I had a hand in 6 bulls. we did lose an archery bull that we think died, due to the rain tho we were unable to find it, the hunter left with his tag in hand. So counting that one 7.
> 
> I know of 2 380+ bulls that were killed biggest I saw was mid 350's with a busted 2nd.


Nice! A 380 bull is what I dream of when I close my eyes at night, but would 'settle' for a 350 bull without much heartburn. I loved the pics and videos you posted on FB. Keep them coming!


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Of course the same people who think the DWR does no wrong, are the same people who come up with an excuse every time their wrong. I thought success rates were 20% guys, not 65%+. Weird isn't it, you just can't admit when you're wrong, some of you must work for the division.


 OK dude, help me out here. What the heck are you talking about? Who is claiming 20%? Who is wrong? As far as the "evil division" remember that they are the ones who took your side on the spike rifle hunt issue. Many of us still think you are wrong but, instead of whining, we are developing mad archery skills yo.-----SS


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Wait a minute. Wasn't the Monroe deer slaughter *2 *years ago? (last year, it was the spike elk) How can the unit be slaughtered and shot out and then produce 60% success the next year?

In my mind I would be inclined to attribute it to the modest tag cuts there plus optimal conditions, but I'm sooo confused right now in trying to follow all this. -Ov-:der:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

berrysblaster said:


> Goof any idea when the antlerless will be posted? I cant remember historically when they come out...


They will be mached up with herd estamates and released 
for the April RAC meetings...Then to the WB 1st of May for approval...


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Wait a minute. Wasn't the Monroe deer slaughter *2 *years ago? (last year, it was the spike elk) How can the unit be slaughtered and shot out and then produce 60% success the next year?
> 
> In my mind I would be inclined to attribute it to the modest tag cuts there plus optimal conditions, but I'm sooo confused right now in trying to follow all this. -Ov-:der:


You're talking crazy.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Hope I Have this correct.. So Archery Hunters, on Parker Boulder Kalparowits had 378 permits and 320 hunted. 58 for what ever reason did not...89 animals were harvested Muzzy, Any Weapon.DH hunters,, 830 harvested, . Is there anyway the archery tags could be increased. so maybe just maybe people who didn't draw might have a better chance at a tag,


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Of course the same people who think the DWR does no wrong, are the same people who come up with an excuse every time their wrong. I thought success rates were 20% guys, not 65%+. Weird isn't it, you just can't admit when you're wrong, some of you must work for the division.


You believe their GS success rates (which are a statistical sample) but not population estimates (also a statistical sample). You cannot pick and choose.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

oldfudd said:


> Hope I Have this correct.. So Archery Hunters, on Parker Boulder Kalparowits had 378 permits and 320 hunted. 58 for what ever reason did not...89 animals were harvested Muzzy, Any Weapon.DH hunters,, 830 harvested, . Is there anyway the archery tags could be increased. so maybe just maybe people who didn't draw might have a better chance at a tag,


I absolutly agree on this issue !

If rifle (any weapon) permits were reduced 10%, 
50% MORE archery permits could be issued with no change in the
number of animals harvested--------ADDING more oppertunity!

I would love to see this for all hunts ....
INCLUDING archery only hunts for OIAL speice's!
We could DOUBLE the amount of OIAL tags issued with this one change.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> I absolutly agree on this issue !
> 
> If rifle (any weapon) permits were reduced 10%,
> 50% MORE archery permits could be issued with no change in the
> ...


We seldom agree, but you've got my attention and support on this one! I have only 14 points for moose and always intended to take one with a bow anyway, per my personal goal of reaching another level with Pope & Young. Great idea! And it would slow the point creep big-time.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> OK dude, help me out here. What the heck are you talking about? Who is claiming 20%? Who is wrong? As far as the "evil division" remember that they are the ones who took your side on the spike rifle hunt issue. Many of us still think you are wrong but, instead of whining, we are developing mad archery skills yo.-----SS


He!! yea. I've been practicing my archery skills out to 150 yards. Some Monroe spikes are gonna die before I can put my tag on one.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> We seldom agree, but you've got my attention and support on this one! I have only 14 points for moose and always intended to take one with a bow anyway, per my personal goal of reaching another level with Pope & Young. Great idea! And it would slow the point creep big-time.


The fact that Moose are about the easiest of the OIL animals to hunt, even with archery. 
It's not hard to get within 50 yards of them most times. 
I don't see the DWR raising the total tag #s much at all.
Now maybe with the Henries Bison, they could get away with it.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

goofy elk said:


> I absolutly agree on this issue !
> 
> If rifle (any weapon) permits were reduced 10%,
> 50% MORE archery permits could be issued with no change in the
> ...


I think there could be some additional opportunity in the area of traditional archery. Look up the Trout Creek mountains traditional archery hunt in Oregon. Sure, success rates are low, but some folks like the idea of seeing and chasing 200" bucks.

The division could do a LOT to reduce point creep by identifying special hunts that can attract groups of applicants with lower impact on the herds. I love the Antelope Island hunt. No, I am not personally interested in that type of hunting, but look at the thousands of applicants that this one tag pulls from the pool. How about looking for some low numbers hunts that could offer spectacular opportunity to spread out the numbers a little thinner. In all the people who I've talked to that put in for the AI hunt, none of them were complaining about the odds.--------SS


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Goofy. you and alot of the people have got it right..


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I saw more deer, and big ones, this year on the muzzy then the last 5 combined. However, I attribute part of that to the weather. Success rates were in 20's most units. I saw lots though, but then again I was out in my rain gear under a tree where most the crowd didn't hunt the first few...

Maybe I could head the spike-o-rama muzzy division?....


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I don't think oil moose success rates would go down using archery. Ive called any bull I wanted to call in utah to under 20 yards. The ones I didnt call I could walk up to 20 yards if I wanted. 

It may work for the rest oil species though. I say issue the same amount of tags just give them to archers or make it archery only. Do it for one unit and see if the tags get filled. If the success rate goes down you could cut rifle tags in half and issue more tags in the form of archery tags. It will never work though because people in utah have to have 100% success rates.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

^^^^^ Just think, if we only allowed spears and slingshots, we could have unlimited tags on the Henry's------SS


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

^^^^^We had unlimted tags on the Henrys with antler restic's^^^^


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> ^^^^^ Just think, if we only allowed spears and slingshots, we could have unlimited tags on the Henry's------SS


Im all for spears and slingshots


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

^^^^^^ throw in blow dart guns and I'm in!^^^^^^


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> I don't think oil moose success rates would go down using archery. Ive called any bull I wanted to call in utah to under 20 yards. The ones I didnt call I could walk up to 20 yards if I wanted.
> .


Moose OIL archery from Sept. 1 - 10 only ..

Bufflo and desert sheep, run in conjuction with archery deer season ..
I'm thinking 45 archery buff tags on the Henrys woulnt hurt much ..
Bet they could give a verily high number of desert sheep tags during
this time period too ... It would be TOUGH!, low success.

This would open up a whole new 'set' of lower max point group too,
pulling a good number of hunters out of the middle part of the plug!
This would BE GOOD!


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

Too may animals are wounded and lost with archery equipment. Our OIL animals are too rare and valuable to be stuck full of arrows, lost, and left to rot. If we are going to hunt these magnificent animals we owe them the respect of a fast clean kill.

The solution to the point creep is simply to raise the application fee high enough to eliminate all the wife, mistress, neighbor, friends, and family applications. I would guess at least half the applications going in could care less about hunting but when the application fee is less than the price of a movie with popcorn people are going to put in everyone they know just for the he!! of it.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> Too may animals are wounded and lost with archery equipment. Our OIL animals are too rare and valuable to be stuck full of arrows, lost, and left to rot. If we are going to hunt these magnificent animals we owe them the respect of a fast clean kill.
> 
> The solution to the point creep is simply to raise the application fee high enough to eliminate all the wife, mistress, neighbor, friends, and family applications. I would guess at least half the applications going in could care less about hunting but when the application fee is less than the price of a movie with popcorn people are going to put in everyone they know just for the he!! of it.


This made me laugh.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> Too may animals are wounded and lost with archery equipment. Our OIL animals are too rare and valuable to be stuck full of arrows, lost, and left to rot. If we are going to hunt these magnificent animals we owe them the respect of a fast clean kill.
> .


OMG Oldtimer,,:shock:,, Have you not hunted in the last 3-4 decades or what?

This ancient myth chit you come up with is almost hysterical......:!:


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I find it funny allthe archery people that want more tags. Seriously. Takes less points than general or muzz on LE, and anyone can by them general season...

I can't think of any hunter who would say yes when asked if he wanted double the hunters afield during his season. Do you really want that?

And oldtimer your post cracks me up... Forget the first statement, move on to the RAISE the fees. Make everything harder to get. Continue to push prices in our sport. My wife hunts, but you tell me in your post we need to eliminate her from the pool? Maybe your post could be moved to another thread. Please see "hunter mentoring program."

I find myself often wondering... I believe as per recent reports Antelope Island has 800 deer, and is fit for 200. (I believe those where the numbers, I will check) Regardless, they are overpopulated so they are looking into transplanting. Why can't they issue anymore tags? Why not have a doe hunt? Or archery hunts so the island isn't bothered? Because then the auction tag wouldn't be the rare price fetcher it is. We are making our resources such an expensive commodity. That never ends up working out in the end from what I have seen....


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

There is no way antelope island has 800 head of deer! 

Talk about the easiest area to count deer and I cant believe they screw it up that bad. They must be using the same beans, corn and hoop trick that they use on the rest of the state. 

Its beyond a joke!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

swbuckmaster said:


> There is no way antelope island has 800 head of deer!
> 
> Talk about the easiest area to count deer and I cant believe they screw it up that bad. They must be using the same beans, corn and hoop trick that they use on the rest of the state.
> 
> Its beyond a joke!


I found it! It was a SLtrib article referenced i. The thread "NOV-RAC/Board meeting- Big game changes 2014"

MWScott was who pointed out the article and then I read it. I do recall seeing it elsewhere. In his post it reminds that 800 is the count and 350 is the goal. So its rumored they have considered transplant. Looking at the little data we have, i assume a 50% mortality and I think at this point that is pretty conservative. So I look at 450 transplanted; 225 deer die and not only does it fail to generate funds, it also fails to make money. I wouls rather them issue some archery tags, sell some at auction to be slaughtered like buffalo, or just kill 225 and donate the meet to homeless shelters. I understand that I may not have the right answers. I just know that there will be no heard management there because that $300,000 quick bucks is to important.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I like the idea of an archery hunt on AI, but I can only imagine the negative publicity that it would generate. If there were some way to convince the non-hunting (anti) public about its merits, it would be a great idea. Problem is, logic w/r/t to cost / benefit analysis does not come into play with a large portion of the granolas out there!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I counted roughly 25 draws on antelope island from google earth and through out a reasonable number of 20 deer per draw this equates to 500. Now if you have spent any time whats so ever out there you know the deer only inhabit about half the island. 

Id say the island has about 200-300 head of deer.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

But sw, if they say that there are 800 they might get an extra 100 grand out of the tag next week!


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Old timer I'am also an old timer.I respect what your saying. I don't agree. I've hunted with a Bow 51 years. have lost 2 deer...Maybe my ethics are to high. If you stalk, get in close a clean kill with a bow can be done..fill an animal FULL of arrows.. guys must be shooting semi auto bows..their also a bunch wounded and never recovered shot from Muzzy. and Rifle.. may be more based on the amount of hunters that are out there.. as for Antelope Island Deer population at 800..the people who did that count are ,,I guess the same ones that removed State Wide Archery.. Another FLUKE..


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Look guys I am just stating what they said.. Its funny the same people who back all the changes and are all about the DWR and special interest groups also jump you when you use a dwr stat. Can't win on this forum wven though some people sit on two sides of the fence.


Regardless, its overpopulated and the solution will be to spend a lot of time, money, and resources to fail.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

First there isn't anyone attacking you for quoting dwr stats. 

This state is in the mess its in with sfw because it couldn't manage its self out of a paper bag.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> This state is in the mess its in with sfw because it couldn't manage its self out of a paper bag.


*BINGO!*

*100%* correct!


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> OMG Oldtimer,,:shock:,, Have you not hunted in the last 3-4 decades or what?
> 
> This ancient myth chit you come up with is almost hysterical......:!:


"Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks report (51 percent wounding)

"Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51 percent wounded)

"Effects of Compound Bow Use on Hunter Success and Crippling Rates in Iowa" Wildlife Society Bulletin (49 percent wounded)

The data shows that only about half the deer shot with arrows are actually found and harvested. So... if you were on death role would you want to be shot with an arrow or a 338 win mag?


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## oldTimer (Jul 12, 2013)

oldfudd said:


> Old timer I'am also an old timer.I respect what your saying. I don't agree. I've hunted with a Bow 51 years. have lost 2 deer...Maybe my ethics are to high. If you stalk, get in close a clean kill with a bow can be done..fill an animal FULL of arrows.. guys must be shooting semi auto bows..their also a bunch wounded and never recovered shot from Muzzy. and Rifle.. may be more based on the amount of hunters that are out there.. as for Antelope Island Deer population at 800..the people who did that count are ,,I guess the same ones that removed State Wide Archery.. Another FLUKE..


oldFudd; unfortunately, I'm guessing you are the exception not the rule. I don't think having a bunch of people chasing buffalo with arrows is a good idea. Especially if a large percentage of the hunters are new to archery and just picked up a bow because they were desperate for a better chance at a tag.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Better chance at a tag 2 years without one..As for the stats that you posted All the DWR"s can make them go either way. UP,, DOWN.. 800 deer on Antelope Island is a great example of that 800 Rattle Snakes Maybe but no money to be made off of them.. Buffalo I have never chased, just ol time Bow Hunter looking to put a Buck in the freezer.. almost 69 years old so times a wastin.. ;-);-)


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> omg oldtimer,,:shock:,, have you not hunted in the last 3-4 decades or what?
> 
> This ancient myth chit you come up with is almost hysterical......:!:


+100


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Those 800 deer are not year-round residents of the island. That's how many deer winter there, but many of those are coming down off the mainland mountains. I remember seeing this story on the news a week or two ago.

Antelope Island should be turned into a regular LE unit to take some pressure off the other premium units in the state. Make it a 5-day hunt in December and give out 50 tags.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

El Matador said:


> Those 800 deer are not year-round residents of the island. That's how many deer winter there, but many of those are coming down off the mainland mountains. I remember seeing this story on the news a week or two ago.
> 
> Antelope Island should be turned into a regular LE unit to take some pressure off the other premium units in the state. Make it a 5-day hunt in December and give out 50 tags.


Bbbbbbbut then regular people could hunt it... And they would be just regular tags to sell...can't have that


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

oldTimer said:


> "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks report (51 percent wounding)
> 
> "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51 percent wounded)
> 
> ...


Sounds like people east of Utah can't shoot worth a crap


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks report (51 percent wounding)
> 
> "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51 percent wounded)
> 
> ...


Do you have a link for the following data? I'm most interested in the Montana report. The only place I can find something similar is on anti-hunting websites.


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

oldTimer said:


> "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks report (51 percent wounding)
> 
> "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51 percent wounded)
> 
> ...


Are these the reports you're referring too?

1 - Cada, J.D., *1988*. "Preliminary Archery Survey Report." Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. Helena, Montana. 7pp.

2 - Boydston, G.A. and Gore, H.G. *1987*. "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas." Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Austin, Texas. 16pp.

3 - Gladfelter, H.L. and Kienzler, J.M. *1983*. "Effects of the Compound Bow on the Success and Crippling Rates in Iowa." Proceedings of the Midwest Bowhunting Conference. Wisconsin Chapter of the Wildlife Society. Edited by Beattie, K.H. and Moss, B.A. pp 215-219.

It looks like somebody has been reading anti-hunting websites too much. I'm not sure how much weight I would give a report that's more than 30 years old.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

800 deer on AI? And did I understand that came from the Trib article? If so, you are actually quoting the Trib, not the DWR. Not that the media has ever mid-reported anything before. I have it in my head that the estimate I saw was between 400-500. But I could be like Roger Clemens and be 'mis-remembering' here.

I'm all for cleaning out bogged down applicant pools. But throwing a whole hoard of archers out there to chase OIL herds around even more can't possibly be good for the overall health of the herd, right? From what I hear the deer watchers on the Henry's are already making it harder for the bison hunters. Never stepped foot down there myself, so haven't personally seen it.


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

Goofy,

Thanks for the post. Looks like a great year. Congratulations to the DWR and many hunters for a successful year. 

I didn't get a tag this year. I spent time hunting with people on Boulder, Zion, Pine Valley, and Panguitch. Boulder was good but the success rate is higher than what I observed (we were on the west side.) Seems almost everyone I know had a chance at at least a 3 point regardless of the unit.

That is amazing for Monroe and I'm shocked with Dutton. I can say the two best bucks I saw this year crossed the highway from Boulder to Monroe the day before the hunt!!


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Alright, I'll help clue some of you in ....

Lets look at Desert sheep ..2014 units and dates. Add in archery possiblitys.

Henry Mtns 
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,,1 permit

Kaiparowits, East* ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,, 3 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

Kaiparowits, Escalante ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,, 8 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

Kaiparowits, West ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,, 4 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

La Sal, Potash/South Cisco ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,,2 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

Pine Valley (new boundary) ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,,3 permits
Oct. 25-Dec. 26 

San Juan, Lockhart ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,, 2 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

San Juan, South ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,,,4 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

San Rafael, Dirty Devil ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,, 2 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

San Rafael, North ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12,,,3 permits
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

San Rafael, South _†_----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12_ ....5 permits_
Sept. 13-Nov. 10 

Zion ----Now add archery only, Aug. 16-Sept.12_ ,,,,, 7 permits_
Sept. 13-Nov. 10

^^^ UBA and UWC take this proposal and RUN to the RAC/Board^^^^
This added oppertunity would be AWESOME! 
Would go MILES helping the point creep too.....


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

TS30 said:


> 800 deer on AI? And did I understand that came from the Trib article? If so, you are actually quoting the Trib, not the DWR. Not that the media has ever mid-reported anything before. I have it in my head that the estimate I saw was between 400-500. But I could be like Roger Clemens and be 'mis-remembering' here.
> 
> I'm all for cleaning out bogged down applicant pools. But throwing a whole hoard of archers out there to chase OIL herds around even more can't possibly be good for the overall health of the herd, right? From what I hear the deer watchers on the Henry's are already making it harder for the bison hunters. Never stepped foot down there myself, so haven't personally seen it.


I found it on the dwr after reading the article but can't do so on my phone right now. http://www.newsdaily.com/article/ca...wildlife-officials-want-to-relocate-utah-deer here is a link to the article where they are quoting the park manager, but I am sure they pulled the numbers out of their butt.

Some people on here are arrogant and pompous at times. Lets argue with me quoting these resources and forget the actual point. And since you are all google earth and computer desk jockey experts your numbers are probably perfect!!! Look, I get it, the DWR cant count and I agree. Regardless, even the estimates you guys are spitting out are over the desired number, that is the main point I am focusing on. My focus was the fact that these animals will not be managed in a good way. There is not very concrete evidence to suggest relocation is successful. I am looking at the current deer studies, the past elk and moose transplants as well.

You talk about bison pressure? For a herd of 700? (This is stated MANY times on the DWR site!) There are 7 drawable permits. Most often I see the deer on a different part of the island than the buffalo. Relocating deer wouldn't disrupt the herd but archery hunters would? When they relocate deer it is that stealth? I am not sure if you misunderstood but I brought up the possible solution for reducing the deer herd, not bison. So no hunter would be "out there to chase OIL herds"...

The henry's are a completely different herd. Wild actually applies to them. They are free to roam the mountain as they please. Pressure can push them a long ways and they are actually skittish. The herd on antelope island is subject to very different conditions as far as management and overall traffic so your comparison of the two ranges is not an accurate one. I could walk out to antelope 365 days a year and shoot a buffalo. Not true at the Henry's.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't have a problem with DWR counts. I'm not one on that bus. I was simply saying that from my memory the counts I had seen reported were lower than 800. But freely acknowledged my memory could be wrong. Arrogant and pompous....? 

Further, I said nothing about the bison herd on Antelope Island. Go back and read the post that you quoted from me. I'm talking specifically about the Henrys. So whatever you are referring to me specifically about the Antelope Island domesticated bison herd isn't relevant to my post.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I apologize if I misunderstood but because archers on antelope were the subject, I thought your paragraph that was directed at the idea of adding more archers to the island. The. I thought you inferred the deer hunt would be putting pressure on the bison herd. Then you compare what has happened at the Henrys as a result of the deer watchers. I don't know where I got lost in that?

If so then how did the henry's get brought up?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Randomelk,

It was from this post from goof below. I know that it was a couple pages back and the discussion had shifted some, so I should have quoted it to respond to it specifically.



goofy elk said:


> Moose OIL archery from Sept. 1 - 10 only ..
> 
> Bufflo and desert sheep, run in conjuction with archery deer season ..
> I'm thinking 45 archery buff tags on the Henrys woulnt hurt much ..
> ...


I have never hunted bison. I've never actually stepped foot on the unit. So my statement is entirely hearsay. But from what I'm told is the bison herd is getting pushed around a ton even by non-hunters making things even more difficult than hunting bison was already. If that concern could be alleviated, I would be all for archery tags to help clean out the draw pool.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

TS30 said:


> Randomelk,
> 
> It was from this post from goof below. I know that it was a couple pages back and the discussion had shifted some, so I should have quoted it to respond to it specifically.
> 
> I have never hunted bison. I've never actually stepped foot on the unit. So my statement is entirely hearsay. But from what I'm told is the bison herd is getting pushed around a ton even by non-hunters making things even more difficult than hunting bison was already. If that concern could be alleviated, I would be all for archery tags to help clean out the draw pool.


I apologize.. I didn't see his. I also disagree with archery tags for buffalo on the Henry's. Knowing how difficult it can be to get a buffalo their during any season, I don't see any need to increase the pressure on them.

Sorry for being snappy. I just received a whole bunch of responses about how their is no way there are 800 deer and yadda yadda and I was really hoping more people would actually address the fact that they want to relocate them, which hasn't proven successful so far. Also, people should be concerned that if they believe their are 800 deer, they may remove to many. I know this is the case in any area, my point above all was that they can't increase the tags whatsoever because of the famous antelope I am so rich that only I can buy this record books, shot-with-my-buddy-Dmoss, Once in a yeartime because I buy it every year... buck.

Another interesting thing I noticed last year (don't pay much attention to the bison hunts) is that the antelope tag is a fortune compared to the Henry's. I think that is ridiculous. They auction them off for less then the hunt and work it takes.

At this point I don't feel bad for our great island resource. It is a money making machine.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I could care less what they do with the deer on the island. Ill never be able to hunt them.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

swbuckmaster said:


> I could care less what they do with the deer on the island. Ill never be able to hunt them.


Its not so much that I care about the deer on the island, as I do them wasting all that money on an unsuccessful "relocation". And I think they are abusing "our" resource but that's beside the point


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Random,

No worries. We are all in this together and all just hope for the best. Keep up all your hard work for wildlife and for sportsmen. I appreciate it.


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