# Handgun copper solid hunting bullets



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Every winter there's conversation on the pros and cons of solid copper rifle bullets. I'm a little weak in that area only taking an antelope, or two, and a mule deer with Barnes copper bullets. The best I recall the bullet performances were nothing to write home about. It's been a while though and I don't remember all the details and there's no copper rifle bullets dug out of animals in my "bullets dug out of animal" collection. :grin:

It's been a number of years ago since I experimented with copper rifle bullets, bullets that have been improved a lot I suppose, bullets that have a large following of satisfied hunters these days. I'm guessing the ammo manufacturers have made a lot of improvements to copper bullets, not only for rifles but for shotguns, muzzle loaders and handguns, since the early days when I tried them and didn't like them. I know they have come a long way for solid copper shotgun slugs, some of which by the way are the same saboted copper slugs used in muzzle loaders.

So I found some Barnes copper XPB bullets for my 460 S&W laying around and reloaded some of them. Doing so reminded me of the XPB copper solid bullet's performance on my Wyoming bison. Here's a couple bullets I dug out of the bison: 


First hit - 80-some yards (@1800 fps) - broadside base of neck, bullet found up against hide
Second hit - 95-plus yards (@ 1725 fps) - angling away lung/liver/stomach, bullet found up against hide
Third (knock-down) hit - 150 yards (@ 1600 fps) - broadside - top of spine on neck, bullet went completely thru

The slugs I found in the bison didn't open up much but I'm not so sure if that's a bad thing; penetration is so important. Also, they're deformed on one side I guess from hitting, glancing off of, bone. I have to add that the bison barely flinched when hit by the 275 grain bullet with around 1900 ft/lbs of energy!! If it wasn't for the "kawhop" sound I would have thought I'd missed.

Like some on the forum have already mentioned, I think no-lead bullets are the future, whether we like it or not.

What do you copper guys think? Is this the way these copper handgun bullets are supposed to perform? More penetration than expansion?

I should ask Barnes.

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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I just noticed. I have about twice as much crimp as the factory guys do. Theirs is a "factory crimp" and mine is a "roll crimp" though. 

uh oh, kaboom

Dangit, I just got to where I could pull the trigger on that thing with my eyes open.

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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Those bullets look like little boxing gloves. 

Does Barnes build them that way on purpose so they pack a lot of "punch"?

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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

So the neighbor asks "Whadda ya doin?

I answer "I'm making cookies and reloading for my 460 Smith n Wesson"

Neighbor says "Yeah, I'd like ta have a nickle for every time I heard that"

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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

In California and in Europe they use copper bullets.

They work, better than nothing, but lead core is softer and still better.

I cannot imagine Colorado, Idaho, Utah nor Wyoming imposing a copper bullet requirement on its hunters. This is just too wacko and fruitcake.

There is no excuse here to do it such as the California Condor in California.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Unless you are hunting in southern Utah where the kalifornia kondor lives.
I've used the Barnes X bullet for years. I've shot several animals with them. The animals died. Just anecdotal evidence, but it's all I've got.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Wyoming has no-lead big game hunting restrictions around Jackson Hole. My Wyoming bison hunt was no-lead.

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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Ahhh said the blind squirrel to the nut.

I sent a note and some pictures to Barnes. They were really helpful and asked me if I would weigh the bullets taken from the bison and I did.

One 275gr XPB bullet weighed 241.0 and had lost 34 grains:


The other lost 38.4 grains:


So it appears as though the bullets mushroomed on impact and then glanced off rib bones peeling some of the mushroomed petals off.

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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Also, if you are ever one of the lucky guys to hold a tag to hunt on Kennecott Utah Copper land you are required to use an all copper bullet. Sheesh, Karl. What's next? Are you gonna try to tell me that you can't kill an elk with anything less than a 200 grain bullet or that only a strapping grown man has enough strength to pull back a 40 pound bow? I still need to meet up with you at Iggy's and have you regale me with your boundless wisdom about all things hunting.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Karl said:


> In California and in Europe they use copper bullets.
> 
> They work, better than nothing, but lead core is softer and still better.
> 
> ...


Karl, Karl, Karl

You're new here. Everyone here knows that I'm the "poster" child for lead poisoning. For 55 years I've been biting my lead split shots onto my fishing line with my teeth. Just look at me now...good grief man. Have you read any of my posts? (posts like in "poster" child....boy, that's a knee-slapper)

Anyway lead is bad I guess. You don't want it in your big game meat burgers for crying out loud. And dead animals with lead bullet fragments in them could get eaten by protected raptors, even songbirds and then they would end up with learning disabilities and poor eyesight like me.

There's places all over the country that are no-lead, mostly on public land; refuges, state parks and such.

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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Also, if you are ever one of the lucky guys to hold a tag to hunt on Kennecott Utah Copper land you are required to use an all copper bullet. Sheesh, Karl. What's next? Are you gonna try to tell me that you can't kill an elk with anything less than a 200 grain bullet or that only a strapping grown man has enough strength to pull back a 40 pound bow? I still need to meet up with you at Iggy's and have you regale me with your boundless wisdom about all things hunting.


Where's Iggys? Do they have coffee? If they do I could come down and regale you.......uh...actually I don't know what "regale" means. Can I do it in cold weather?

Karl's fine, he's new. If you're going to make a bold statement that you pull out of your behind you need to put up a supporting link. I just make the link up, no one clicks on them anyway. To be safe I'll put "Monster Muleys" or "Big Fish Tackle" in the link. That way if some crazy dude does click on my link he'll forget what the heck he's doing shorty after browsing one of those two forums let me tell ya.

Top of the page!!!

Anyone remember what this thread is about?

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> Karl's fine, he's new. If you're going to make a bold statement that you pull out of your behind you need to put up a supporting link.


I really don't blame Karl, I blame his friends for letting him grow up that way. In the old days friends or family would quickly correct such behavior with merciless ridicule and endless torment. 8)



> I just make the link up, no one clicks on them anyway. To be safe I'll put "Monster Muleys" or "Big Fish Tackle" in the link. That way if some crazy dude does click on my link he'll forget what the heck he's doing shorty after browsing one of those two forums let me tell ya.


+100



> Anyone remember what this thread is about?.


I frankly don't know what any of our threads are about anymore.

-DallanC


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

I might try and see how those solids shoot out of my .445 Super Mag. I've got an 8" barrel and shroud assembly being made for this pistol, with hopes of shooting something big and hairy with it next fall if I get the chance. May not have the velocity to push those bullets enough to get any expansion like your 460 can. What min. velocity do they recommend for those?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

gdog said:


> ...................................... What min. velocity do they recommend for those?


I think it's 1100 fps.

Is that revolver .429 or .451?

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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> Where's Iggys? Do they have coffee? If they do I could come down and regale you.......uh...actually I don't know what "regale" means. Can I do it in cold weather?
> 
> Karl's fine, he's new. If you're going to make a bold statement that you pull out of your behind you need to put up a supporting link. I just make the link up, no one clicks on them anyway. To be safe I'll put "Monster Muleys" or "Big Fish Tackle" in the link. That way if some crazy dude does click on my link he'll forget what the heck he's doing shorty after browsing one of those two forums let me tell ya.
> 
> ...


Iggy's is right off of 1300 east and approximately I don't know 8000 southish. I would come up to Evanston and let you regale me up there, but the JB's you guys have there is terrible. I don't think I would eat there again. I could use some lotto tickets, however, and the 4th of July will be here before you know it, so it would be good to stock up on fireworks. Maybe even get a little something for Mrs. CCG from Romantix. Oh, and I heard Fraughton's make some excellent salami. I bet you can regale with the best of them, Goob!

:V|::V|:


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> I think it's 1100 fps.
> 
> Is that revolver .429 or .451?
> 
> .


429


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Is that a Dan Wesson?


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Loke said:


> Is that a Dan Wesson?


Yes...Dan Wesson Alaskan Guide Special .445 Super Mag


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

gdog said:


> I might try and see how those solids shoot out of my .445 Super Mag. I've got an 8" barrel and shroud assembly being made for this pistol, with hopes of shooting something big and hairy with it next fall if I get the chance. May not have the velocity to push those bullets enough to get any expansion like your 460 can. What min. velocity do they recommend for those?


The best I can glean from the net is that the 275 gr Barnes XPBs I load open up at 1500 fps. That limits me to 165 yards for my .460 loads with a heavy crimp.

Here's the optimum speeds for the Hornady XTPs I use. There is anecdotal evidence that the 460 S&W XTP MAGs open at 900 fps.

44 Magnum (.430"):

Hornady #44200 240g XTP-HP 900-1800fps

Hornady #44280 300g XTP-HP 850-1900+fps

460 S&W Mag (.452"):

Hornady #44220 249g XTP-HP MAG 1100 -2200 fps

Hornady #44235 300g XTP-HP MAG 1100 -2200 fps

The XTP HP *MAG* bullets have thicker jackets and are for 460 S&W loads over 1700 fps.

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