# Who drew 2nd choice?



## inbowrange (Sep 11, 2007)

My normal area is one of the harder general archery tags to get, so I was wondering who drew there 2nd or 3rd choices last year.


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

I drew my 3rd, I know many who drew the 4th and 5th. The system works you just need to know how it works.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

it all going to change this year.People are going to fill the five choice up and now you got people with points.Plus you are going to have guy looking at year left over tags and putting in just to draw a tag this year to hunt the front.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The system is actually broken.

The tags are awarded by points, not choice. So I could draw a tag as my 2nd choice while you don't draw it as your 1st choice. AND I receive an additional point because I didn't draw my 1st choice. I can ALWAYS stay ahead of you in the game. (I don't even have Gen Deer points, but you get the gist of it)

The Board and UDWR punted the issue down the road in their last meetings and did nothing to address it. It is a joke; akin to allowing the same people to eat the best food at the restaurant, while everyone else eats fries and cooked peas. Oh sure, everyone gets fed.....


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## Groganite (Nov 14, 2012)

I put in for nothing but archery, with my luck they'll give me a rifle tag...


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## GSLHonker (Sep 8, 2007)

I drew my fourth last year, my brother drew his fifth. Same unit


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

On the whole point issue, these are preference points given, not bonus points. Now correct me if i am wrong this is simply my understanding. The division between preference points and bonus points lies in the tags designated for the specific type of point. Bonus points are in reference to the bonus point tags in each region. There are only a certain number of bonus tags available(half or less of total tags). Preference points on the other hand are a better way of assuring a tag with max preference points in that unit. 

Example, limited entry unit A has 18 tags. 9 of these tags will go to the "bonus tags" and be issued or drawn to the highest bonus point holders. The remaining 9 tags will be drawn to every other applicant regardless of point number. You will notice some areas have a max bonus point ceiling but every year someone with 2 or 4 or 9 points will draw a non-bonus tag. 

On the other hand using the preference point system it would look like this, General unit A has 1000 tags. Of the applicants for this unit there are 250 applicants with 4 preference points, 700 applicants with 3 points, 1200 applicants with 2 points, and say 2000 applicants with 1 or zero points. The 1000 tags will be alloted as follows; all 4 point holders would draw, all 3 point holders would draw, 50 of the 1200 2-point holders would draw, and NONE of the one point or zero point holders would draw. 

The goal of this is to turn the general units into a "certain year" draw. The better general units will become a 3-5 year draw(3-5 points), the medium units a 1-2 year draw(1-2 points), and the lesser units an every year draw(zero points) or a second, third, or fourth choice unit. The second, third, fourth and fifth choices are simply to "assure" the hunters a chance to gain a deer tag while building points for a future "better" deer unit.


Like I said, this is what I understand of this system, please correct me if I am wrong. I'm not saying I agree with this either.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Crimson-- Your example does not work because you don't include the 4 and 3 point holders who choose the unit as a second+ choice. How preference points currently work would be like this--

400 tags for unit A. 200 people with 4 points apply as a first choice and they get their tags-- but do not receive a point because they were successful in drawing their 1st choice. 50 people with 4 points apply as a second choice and they get the tag plus they get a point because they didn't draw their first choice. Then 30 people with 4 points apply as their 3rd choice and they get the tag plus they get a point also. Then 20 people with 4 points apply as their 4th choice and they get the tag plus they get a point also. 

200 people with 3 points apply for the unit as a first choice. Half get a tag and lose their points, while the other half just get a point.

300 people apply with 2 points as a first choice. No one gets a tag.

400 people apply with 1 point as a first choice and no gets a tag.

400 people apply with 0 points as a first choice and no one gets a tag.

So 100 people in the 4 point pool get a tag and a point. How long will it take for people with the most points to figure this out and game the system. They can always stay ahead of those behind them in points and receive a tag. It makes sense that the first choice should be considered before points, but that isn't what happens.


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

Points ONLY apply on your first choice, thats why you are only issued a point if you DO NOT draw your first choice. The only way a unit will make it to a second choice draw is if it is under drawn through the first choice drawing. So if unit A has 500 tags and 300 people apply first choice then 200 carry over into second choice. If there are only 100 second choice applicants then 100 tags carry over into third choice and so on...

Thats what I mean, the system works its just confusing to get a grasp on. Once you understand how it works you can plan for your "better deer" areas every 3-5 years and settle on a average area every year just to be able to still hunt, and gain points.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Sorry, but you are incorrect in your assumption of how the General Deer Draw works. Points should apply only to first choice, but they don't. You did say "Now correct me if i am wrong this is simply my understanding."  

You can listen to the UDWR Board minutes to hear the explanation. December 5th Board Work Session- 1 hour 50 minutes into it and lasts about 10 minutes.


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

Now if this is indeed how it works then i am totally on your side. I'm looking for correction, thats why i stated that. In your own words, this system is broken and i will agree. Something just doesn't seem right with this...


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

Well Packout, you were right. I had too much faith in a "fair" system.

From the division page:
"How preference points work in the general-season drawing: Starting with the highest point level, the drawing looks at the hunter's first choice. If a permit is available for the hunt, the permit is awarded. (In the case of a group application, permits are awarded if there are enough permits for the people in the group.) If permits are not available, the application is skipped and the first choice of the next person is considered. After all first choices have been considered at that preference point level, the drawing will start looking at the second choices within that point level. This process continues in the same way for third, fourth and fifth choices. When the drawing is done for the highest point level, the process repeats for each point level down"


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

I not only didnt draw my 1st or 2nd choice... but ended up drawing my 5th choice! what a crock the entire system is...


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

tallbuck said:


> I not only didnt draw my 1st or 2nd choice... but ended up drawing my 5th choice! what a crock the entire system is...


That's why I only put one choice. If I don't draw it, I'd rather get a point and just do OTC elk.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> tallbuck said:
> 
> 
> > I not only didnt draw my 1st or 2nd choice... but ended up drawing my 5th choice! what a crock the entire system is...
> ...


You dont draw your first choice you still get a point and a tag.


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