# Trail Cam



## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Thinking about getting a trail camera out this year. Not really looking for advice on cameras as much as advice on keeping them from being stolen. Seems like that is the biggest issue with trail cameras.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Unless you have a lock box which I don't - so, I just set it as far from the beaten path as possible and then hope for the best. I haven't had one stolen yet...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I dont understand why we need the camera in the box portion. Just set the box at the base of a tree and cover it... an external camera can be run via a simple thin wire that runs up at attaches at a inconspicuous spot (on a tree limb vs tree trunk etc).

If I had enough money to self-fund this, I'd make a line of trail cams with the camera on a wire. It would offer up a whole lot more options to place it, and stop thievery as its harder to spot.


-DallanC


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Dallan, I would buy that. I want to put up cameras but find myself looking at the cheapest options just in case they get stolen. I'd rather be out $60 than $160


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I'll shoot you a PM. Don't really want my technique on the WWW. But it's prevented me from ever getting a camera stolen, and I have a lot of them...


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## slyck68 (May 25, 2017)

I like to use those metal boxes (CAMLOCK Box) that screw to a tree, then I finish it off with a Masterlock Python lock that wraps around the tree. Just don't forget the key when you go to check your cameras! The Masterlock Python keys are small and I keep all of mine on one ring that goes in a pouch in my bino harness.

I have never had an issue with theft, but I have lost cameras to bears. I once backpacked 8 miles into the Trinity Alps Wilderness in California to my blacktail deer hunting spot to hang a camera a few months before the opener. I figured I was remote enough to not need a lock. Well when I made the long hike in to check the camera the day before the archery opener I found my camera laying in the grass 50' from where I hung it. I pulled the SD card and it turns out that a bear had found my camera not 5 hours after I set it and tore it off the tree. I had 3 pictures of the bear (including what appeared to be the inside of his mouth) and 3months worth of pictures of the sky.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I dont understand why we need the camera in the box portion. Just set the box at the base of a tree and cover it... an external camera can be run via a simple thin wire that runs up at attaches at a inconspicuous spot (on a tree limb vs tree trunk etc).
> 
> If I had enough money to self-fund this, I'd make a line of trail cams with the camera on a wire. It would offer up a whole lot more options to place it, and stop thievery as its harder to spot.
> 
> -DallanC


I think the issue would be the trigger mechanism.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

bowgy said:


> I think the issue would be the trigger mechanism.


Trigger could be made external to the unit as well... think of how much more sensitive that could be if you could run the trigger right down next to the trail, camera somewhere else. Main unit hidden under brush or whatever. Could make IR LEDs the same way, external so you could position those from different angles.

So much of these electrical parts are just "lego" now. Cheap to buy and assemble. It really wouldn't be hard to make a RaspberryPi driven test unit to try out the theory. If I didnt have so many other projects going on I'd give this a try.

-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

It is illegal to screw or nail them to a tree. Don't go that route.

The rest is just tough-- as even lock boxes get stolen. I think it best to lock the camera with a cable, then I leave the access unlocked-- so if anyone wants to look at the card they can. I always do something to the box so I know if it has been opened. In 15+ years of using cameras on public and private I have never had a camera stolen. I did have one broken into (which is why I no longer lock them). Twice I've had the card deleted. 

..


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Nothing like scrolling through a memory card of awesome elk pictures then you get one of Packout staring into the lens :mrgreen:


-DallanC


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## slyck68 (May 25, 2017)

Packout said:


> It is illegal to screw or nail them to a tree. Don't go that route.
> ..


Good to know, thanks for sharing! Do you happen to know if that is a State of Utah statute or a Federal law? It's fairly common practice here in CA, though that certainly doesn't make it right.


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## DUSTY NOGGIN (Feb 27, 2017)

be warned if i find your camera , i will moon it every time , 

you will wish i stole it , cause the old lady says i cant used her nose trimmers any more


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## CAExpat (Oct 27, 2013)

> Do you happen to know if that is a State of Utah statute or a Federal law


I've never seen anything in the guidebook about it, however as an ethical common practice, I don't deface any of our vulnerable landscape while out and about, that includes boring a 1/2" screw into a tree to hang a camera.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Packout said:


> It is illegal to screw or nail them to a tree. Don't go that route.


I don't run any cams, so I will admit I'm not up to speed on the laws pertaining to them. However, I was not aware this is illegal. Who prohibited this and where?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I believe that the law is that you just can't attach them with screws or nails. Most trail cameras are attached with straps but if you place it in a security box then that box might be screwed or nailed to the tree which is illegal.


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## slyck68 (May 25, 2017)

It makes sense from a public safety standpoint. Even though I always make sure and remove my cameras, the Forest Service has to assume that not everyone will do so. I'm sure we've all heard the horror stories about loggers hitting nails or screws with their chainsaws. Thanks again for the info; I'll be changing my mounting strategy from now on.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

We use screw in lock boxes with our cameras. I guarantee my self climbing tree stand tears up a tree a lot worse than the lock box. I will have to brush up on the law I suppose.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> I don't run any cams, so I will admit I'm not up to speed on the laws pertaining to them. However, I was not aware this is illegal. Who prohibited this and where?


My memory fails me on the specifics, but generally, the laws (both federal and state) that refer to inserting nails, screws, spikes, etc., into trees came about in the late 1980's. Back then, when the timber industry was in full swing, there was a hard push to 'save the trees' by eco extremists (later called eco terrorists) across the country. Some of those folks took to hammering substantial spikes into trees on federal and state lands for the explicit purpose of causing harm to the loggers, in hopes of them stopping the harvesting of timber. Around 1986 or 1987, a logger in Oregon I believe, was seriously injured when his saw hit one of those spikes.

Shortly after, federal statutes were passed making that practice illegal, with varying degrees of penalties from felonies to misdemeanors depending on 'intent and results' of said actions. Nails, screws, spikes, wires, explosive devices, ammunition "traps", etc. were all outlawed. Over the years, those initial laws have been modified here and there both federally and by individual states to include a variety nono's, including hunting stands and how they were attached to trees.

I'm sure you could look up the federal statutes given your station in life...:mrgreen:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

The explanation given actually makes a good deal of sense from a public safety standpoint, I just have never heard that the practice was against the law. 

If this is a law still on the books, there certainly are a crap ton of cameras and tree stands out there that are in violation. That's why I'm wondering what the language says. A very quick google search returned nothing for me, which is why I asked where this is prohibited in my first post. I'd like to educate myself on this one, but looking for the easy way out for one of you to just tell me.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Steel nails are hard on chainsaws and there operators as well as kill very expensive saw blades in the mills. If you must nail into a tree and are going to do it no matter what anyone says I would suggest picking up some aluminum nails as they are safer then steel nails. 
I realize the timber industry is basically dead and the chances of anyone logging your hunting area is slim to none these days but you never know when there will be a forest fire and some poor sawer may come along and stick a saw into the tree you had your camera nailed to. Wildland Firefighters have enough to worry about and don't need the aggravation of nails in trees. 
Cutting trees around campgrounds can be especially fun with all the nails people put in them poor trees.
I cringe at the thought of someone running a screw into a tree as I suspect that most of them end up snapping the heads off either installing them or trying to remove them after they have set in the weather for a few month but I suspect that the offenders have never hit a nail or screw with a saw and at best messed up a good chain or got to test there chain beak or saw chaps and at worst ended up leaking blood or losing body parts.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Quick search turned up this. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1864


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't know anyone that "nails" their camera boxes to trees. Lag bolts are screwed in to secure the anti-theft box and unscrewed when the camera is removed. I don't think screwing a bolt in a tree for a short time is going to hurt it. Have you seen how tree specialists fasten broken tree limbs back together? They drill through them and bolt the limb back together.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I've never had any stolen. I always put them out of sight from any road or trail. 
I usually will set them up at least a mile from a road or trail but requires bush wacking to get to it.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> I don't know anyone that "nails" their camera boxes to trees. Lag bolts are screwed in to secure the anti-theft box and unscrewed when the camera is removed. I don't think screwing a bolt in a tree for a short time is going to hurt it. Have you seen how tree specialists fasten broken tree limbs back together? They drill through them and bolt the limb back together.


Screwing a lag into a tree can certainly hurt it. Tree specialist screw lags in to hold limbs that are already compromised. A wound in the tree could subject it to disease or insects. Might not always but certainly could.

It's bad ediquette in my opinion to damage a tree in any way for a camera, tree stand, or any other device. Use straps and tread lightly, we need all the healthy trees we can get amongst those already dead and dying from beetles.

Our trees in this state are in much worse shape than our game herds......but that's another subject.------SS


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

I do a lot of work with trail cameras- from design, buying, testing, etc. etc. There isn't a fool proof way to stop someone from stealing a camera if they are motivated enough. There are certainly some things to do to minimize the opportunity of theft. 

#1- Use a lock- Masterlock Python locks are great. Several cameras have the ability to lock the door and camera to a tree. It's plastic, so if someone really wants to steal a camera, they can, but it will be unusable after that. 

#2- Security Box. More appropriatly called a bear box because they work pretty well against bears. I don't know why bears like cameras so much, but they will munch them. May be the small amount of light. Elk, bears, and cows are the most destructive critters next to humans on cameras. 

#3- Get off the beaten path. Find areas that critters are using and then enhance that area with an attractant like salt lick, or something to get them coming. They'll come back for years and years after it is established. 

#4- use the best tree you can for security as well as camera positioning. cut limbs to get a good camera shot, but hide it. You can use the sweet stuff to position the critter to get a picture, and to stick around. 

I've had a few cameras stolen over the years. Some were just motivated thieves. I've had locks cut. One lock was picked and they were nice enough to leave the lock at the base of the tree, and one was nice enough to hang it on the treestand it was set beside. That is in the middle of absolutely nowhere without much traffic or pressure. We've seen treestands stolen also. 

Thieves will be thieves unfortunately.


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

I've had four trail cameras stolen, all with varied methods of locking them.

#1 - Python lock cable, looks like multiple axe chops broke through it and the camera was gone.

#2 - Security box was pried from a tree, looks like they actually used a crowbar to get it off, broken screw was still in the tree.

#3 - Tried leaving camera open, giving access to SD card.

#4 - Climbed a tree, about 15 feet up angling the camera down and secured via python lock.

All were hidden, and would not stand out to the normal guy. In my opinion, there is no perfect way. If they want your camera, they're gonna get it.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

A little off subject, but I enjoy supporting local businesses whenever possible and lately Camofire has been putting up a lot of quality trail cams on the app. I think they do it every Tuesday if I'm not mistaken. Good place to look if you want a quality cam at a fair price. As far as preventing them from getting stolen, you just gotta trust that at least some Utah hunters have some dignity left, hard to see that sometimes.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

RemingtonCountry said:


> I've had four trail cameras stolen, all with varied methods of locking them.
> 
> #1 - Python lock cable, looks like multiple axe chops broke through it and the camera was gone.
> 
> ...


This is why I refuse to spend anymore then $50 on a trail cam because no matter what if someone wants the camera they will get it and I refuse to hang more the 50 bucks on a tree for the taking. I don't waste the money on boxes and locks since they do little to secure the camera.

I usually pic up the Primo's cameras on sale around Christmas time and have found that there lower end cameras do really well, at least good enough for me.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I always sit right by myan, never had a problem yet.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

muddydogs said:


> This is why I refuse to spend anymore then $50 on a trail cam because no matter what if someone wants the camera they will get it and I refuse to hang more the 50 bucks on a tree for the taking. I don't waste the money on boxes and locks since they do little to secure the camera.
> 
> I usually pic up the Primo's cameras on sale around Christmas time and have found that there lower end cameras do really well, at least good enough for me.


i get the same camera on ebay in lots of 2 or 4. end up paying about $25-35 each. very simple camera and the pics are decent as well. kind of nice to not have to be a computer programmer to use a game cam.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

caddis8 said:


> #4- use the best tree you can for security as well as camera positioning. cut limbs to get a good camera shot, but hide it.


if you cut branches it can be helpful to rub dirt on the cut ends so they don't stand out as fresh cuts. if the limbs are dead i prefer to snap then off so it looks more natural. imo, a limbed tree stands out in the woods and helps draw the eye to anything else unnatural on the tree.

my biggest problem is having enough cover and not getting false triggers in the wind. dark woods help with that though.


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## american_jackal (Mar 1, 2017)

APD 

Which trail cameras are you finding for $25-$30 a piece. I have been looking at the referb stealth cams, and they are about $45 a piece. But id like to know of a quality cam at that price.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

In my opinion, the cheaper cameras (less than $60) can struggle with the PIR sensor (Passive Infrared) to catch movement in the day and also with poor night image quality which is usually because of the chip inside and the number of LEDs on the camera. 

That being said, the technology increase from even 3-4 years ago and the quality being achieved is really pretty impressive. 

I've tested a lot of cameras from most major brands over the years. I can say that all cameras are not created equal. But boy is it fun playing around with them! I have almost more fun with the cameras than I do actually hunting critters.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I usually find these for around $30 at Christmas time from Dicks Sporting goods.
https://www.amazon.com/Primos-Bullet-Proof-Trail-Camera/dp/B01D0JTS0K

I also have a couple of these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Primos-Trut...198653?hash=item3f7cd3db3d:g:qHAAAOSwfRdZHhIg


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

american_jackal said:


> APD
> 
> Which trail cameras are you finding for $25-$30 a piece. I have been looking at the referb stealth cams, and they are about $45 a piece. But id like to know of a quality cam at that price.


the primos easy cam is what i've found for that price. ebay and some obscure website has had them before. the more you buy the better the price.


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## RemingtonCountry (Feb 17, 2016)

Camofire is blowing out some Stealth Cams for $39.99 right now!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

None there now.


-DallanC


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## CAExpat (Oct 27, 2013)

Yeah the whole page was Stealth Cam yesterday. I'm looking for about 2-3 more, I think i'll give Moultrie a try. I have 4 now of all different brands and none stand out as anything special in the $60-$100 range.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Stealthcam's g42ng is a fantastic camera under $100.


-DallanC


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## CAExpat (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks for the tip, I may check one of those out. They're well reviewed and seem to be all I need.


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## utarchery (Jun 18, 2013)

spray it with scent killer and the animals will leave it alone


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## deljoshua (Jul 29, 2013)

I had tried out a cheap camera a few years ago and was thrilled when I saw 110 on the picture count. Got home and there was 110 pictures of grass blowing in the wind. Soooo disappointing. I picked up a browning for about $100 about 2 weeks ago. I put it up where I know some animals are and left it for a week. I believe I got about 140 pictures. It worked fantastic. Cow and bull elk, some deer, a cow and baby moose, even 2 coyotes. Very impressed with it's results, no moving grass pictures.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'd be willing to bet that if you placed your Browning camera in the same location that the other cheap one was at you would get a lot of blowing grass pictures. 

That is one thing about cameras that will take a photo when something moves through its electric eyes area, it will take a picture of it. That is also one of the learning curves of where to place them. 

The first time that I placed one of mine out I had a lot of photos of a branch moving, now after I cut that branch I get more animals.


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## deljoshua (Jul 29, 2013)

I think you are probably right. This unit is much smaller and the picture quality is pretty good. 
With wind there is always going to be movement of vegetation, what are the tricks to deciding a good spot for a camera? What about still pics vs video?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have most of mine in the timber on trails that go to their feeding area. If I do place it into a clearing I'll aim it a little higher than normal and trim as many branches as I can to keep them from triggering the camera. 

The big thing is that it is a learning curve to figure out what is right for your situation and where you are setting them up at.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

deljoshua said:


> What about still pics vs video?


http://www.huntingnut.com/movies/bulls2.mp4

http://www.huntingnut.com/movies/bulls1.mp4

Does that help?

-DallanC


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## deljoshua (Jul 29, 2013)

I I think I'm going to try video when I change out cards next time. Those are cool videos and you definitely get a better look at the animals.


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## deljoshua (Jul 29, 2013)

Looks like the browning cam is actually better at not being tripped by vegetation quite as often as less expensive cameras. I picked up a couple more cameras that were on clearance at Walmart. I believe they are wild game innovation? Anyway they definitely have less bells and whistles compared to the browning. I have used both in the exact same spot and there were many many more pictures of nothing with the cheaper ones. They did however take decent picutres both day and night of animals. I am trying the video function on the cheaper camera now to see how the quality and longevity of the storeage is. The videos I got from the browning are really cool to watch, much more to them than you can see in a still pic alone. Thanks for the link DallanC! One more question. How well does the scent remover work on keeping the elk from chewing on the camera? I have some videos of a cow on multiple occasions chewing on the camera and the camera straps.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Trail cams are fun I finally broke down and bought a more expensive one. As I noticed it does not get triggered by wind nearly as often as the cheap Bushnell I first bought. That thing would drain the batteries taking pictures of nothing. My new stealth cam will take pictures of chipmunks but hardly any twig pics it's nice.

I am curious how these bucks finish as these pics were taken 3 weeks ago at the cabin. Curious to see their growth headed back up in two weeks


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

hazmat, why is the resolution of your pictures so bad?
Did you take a picture of the tv or computer screne?


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Ya ridge I was in a hurry and took the pic off the computer after I downloaded them. The actual photos came out pretty good.


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