# Lots of dead deer.



## love2hunt (Oct 28, 2008)

I just took a drive from Ogden to Evanston Wy and counted over 30 dead deer on the side of the road. That is a whole lot more than I ever see in the back of trucks and trailers during the hunt. Why is this never discussed as part of the reason our deer heards are declining? Why are we not going after the car owners and the home owners that built homes in their wintering areas? I don't disagree that predator control needs to be apart of the solution, but I see so many dead deer on the side of the roads that are not Coyote,Wolf or Cougar caused. Maybe we need to put a bounty on cars?


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

love2hunt said:


> I just took a drive from Ogden to Evanston Wy and counted over 30 dead deer on the side of the road. That is a whole lot more than I ever see in the back of trucks and trailers during the hunt. *Why is this never discussed as part of the reason our deer heards are declining?* Why are we not going after the car owners and the home owners that built homes in their wintering areas? I don't disagree that predator control needs to be apart of the solution, but I see so many dead deer on the side of the roads that are not Coyote,Wolf or Cougar caused. Maybe we need to put a bounty on cars?


It is discussed.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I made a thread about this not too long ago actually. Not very many people commented on it.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41778


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Last estimate indicated that highway mortality matched hunter "harvest". As unit management settles into everyone's brain, we have to deal with the fact that highway mortality varies from one unit to the next. On some units, it's a significant impact. On others, not so much.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

Highway 89 from Farmington all the way to South Weber, again from Willard to Honeyville is also terrible. I agree I would love something done about that , also the houses built high up on the bench.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

COOPERD said:


> I agree I would love something done about that , also the houses built high up on the bench.





love2hunt said:


> Why are we not going after the car owners and the home owners that built homes in their wintering areas?


 I dont know about you guys but I am glad I have the right in this country to build a house or develop land I own.
I hit a deer on the mirror lake highway a couple years ago. I was going under the speed limit and not texting or otherwise distracted, you want to charge me with something? What do you suggest be done to "go after" these car owners and home builders?


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## love2hunt (Oct 28, 2008)

I agree that everyone should have the right to build or develop the land that they own that is not my point. The problem I have is these developers that buy these huge chunks of deer wintering land and throw anything and everything they can on it to make themselves money without any regard to the deer or what negative effects these homes or developments might cause. Then we get the almighty powers on the hill that have all the answers and pass bills that charge the hunters more and more to fix the deer herd problems. Why are the legislators not going after these developers for compensation instead of the hunter always footing the bill? Why not pass a bill to make it manditory that these devolopers and home owners pay to replace the habitat they destroyed? It all boils down to money and there never being enough to fix the problem. I am all for fixing the deer herd problem but let's stop over looking the Elephant in the room and address all the issues. As for cars why not pass a bill that would add $5 to your taxes that would help fund fencing and crossing projects to help keep the highway mortality down? That way everyone who is responsible for the decline of the deer herds could help with the burden of trying to rebuild them, not just the hunter.


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## JHas (Nov 21, 2007)

How about we get rid of option 2 and issue 150,000 tags state wide then take the extra money generated and bulid overpasses/underpasses on all of the migration routes. Probably increase the deer herd more than option 2 ever could.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

10 year quest quit the drama. No one is going to cite you for hitting a deer. I was thinking more on the lines of game fences or crossings. And I have heard tons of complaints about animals destroying peoples yards, they live as high on the mountain as you can get. Sorry I feel bad for the enproachment on winterrange. I am sorry that you dont. You are right is a free country.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

Love 2 hunt you have some good points. I would like to see some of the $ from the expos, fundraisers buy some land before developers can get it. I am pretty sure some of that money went to buy some school trust land on Tabby Mt. but i will have to double check.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

It certainly is a problem, but solving it isn't easy.

High fences are a viable solution, but are costly to put up and maintain. Plus they tend to isolate some herds, especially in or out of their winter ranges by blocking migration routes.

Regular deer crossing caution signs are just targets most of the time and since deer can't read they don't always cross where they are supposed to.

Flashing deer crossing signs are good for about 2 weeks, but are generally ignored after that.

Escape ramps certainly allow the deer to get off the road, but help only when they are already there. And since the deer frequently leave the way they came, a driver can't count on a deer leaving the road on the same side as you see him/her.

Under/Overpasses can cost up $3.5 million, especially on freeways.

Herein lies the real problem! Even citations, deaths, injuries or damage caused by car/deer accidents doesn't stop it that much. Driving down SR-14 (When it's open) from Cedar City to Panguitch is a joke most of the time. Sharp turns, blind curves, mud slides, rocks, blowdown, road damage, dead deer, live deer, bikers, joggers, photographers, turkeys, slow vehicles and scenery are just part of the obstacle course for most of the locals on both sides of the mountain. They know it like the back of their hands and it's only a 40/45 minute drive anyway. OK, 60 at the most if I've been drinking! A cop? On SR-14? You gotta be kidding! It's a wonder nobody's been killed. Oh, wait, they have! Several times! "But it's not gonna happen to me!" 
Fix this problem and the highway deer mortality will drop to almost nothing!


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## love2hunt (Oct 28, 2008)

elkfromabove said:


> It certainly is a problem, but solving it isn't easy.
> 
> High fences are a viable solution, but are costly to put up and maintain. Plus they tend to isolate some herds, especially in or out of their winter ranges by blocking migration routes.
> 
> ...


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

Not much we can do about highway fatalities, I think the biggest problem with the declining deer herds is the homes being built way up in the mountains. It ruins good hunting grounds and ruins the winter range where deer are already struggling to survive in the winter months.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A lot of people point to the homes being built up on the benches of the major cities, and that could be part of the problem along the Wasatch Front but what about the deer herds over the rest of the state? I don't see that many houses being built on the winter grounds around the Manti, or the Plateau and Fishlake area just to mention a couple of spots.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Critter is spot on with his comment on winter range. How do you explain the decline in unpopulated areas? 

One of the biggest factors is the lack of quality habitat. With the supression of wildfires the browse has gotten to mature to provide quality feed for deer. We also have the issue of grazing as well as competition with elk for habitat. Then you add on predators, highway mortality, poaching, doe shoots, etc, etc. What we have here is called a COMPOUNDED PROBLEM and it requires a COMPUNDED SOLUTION!


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Last I checked 1-80 has been their for decades, even during the "good ole days" when I was a kid.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

:?:


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

hossblur said:


> Last I checked 1-80 has been their for decades, even during the "good ole days" when I was a kid.


Very informative, useful information. :roll:


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Critter I don't think you are looking around the Manti area. The area changes every year and winter ground keeps get taken away by houses and selling of winter range for houses. Their is a paved road up canal canyon now, would of never had thought of this 5 years ago. Utah has almost tripled in people since the good old days and it is still growing 12,000 new students every year, and their are more cars on Utah highways than ever before even on I-80. More cars on the road more chances of killing deer on the roads.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

love2hunt said:


> I don't disagree that predator control needs to be apart of the solution, but I see so many dead deer on the side of the roads that are not Coyote,Wolf or Cougar caused. Maybe we need to put a bounty on cars?


What do you mean....according to Iron Bear, these "roadkill" deer are coyote, wolf, and cougar caused! Don't you know that all the predators are chasing the deer down to the roads because these roads are the ONLY place where there aren't any predators? If we just were to kill all the predators, our roadkill deer numbers would drop way down and we would have lots more deer because of it...!


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

I run my dogs up to the top of skyline drive above Bountiful 2-3 a week and I have never seen so many deer carcasses (or is it carci?) If they are all winter kill it would seem strange because of the lack of snow in that area this winter and people don't drive fast enough to hit the deer and kill them. It has given my dogs some good tracking experience though.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

I could be because they've been chased by dogs all winter long.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

wyoming2utah said:


> love2hunt said:
> 
> 
> > I don't disagree that predator control needs to be apart of the solution, but I see so many dead deer on the side of the roads that are not Coyote,Wolf or Cougar caused. Maybe we need to put a bounty on cars?
> ...


You mean we roadkill just the chasee's and not the chasers? How does that work?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, those coyotes and lions are **** smart....they won't chase the deer or elk on to the roads or close to the roads. That is why all the deer and elk are so near the roads; to avoid the predators chasing them. The deer and elk think it is their safe zone...until they get hit.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

Fishrmn said:


> I could be because they've been chased by dogs all winter long.


That is true! But I have seen very few other dogs up there and mine whoa on command and know it's not worth it for them to chase the deer  Electricity does wonders for getting dogs to behave!


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Even if your dogs behave, the deer don't know that. When they see a canine, instinct kicks in. It's either fight or flight. It's stress either way. You're up there 2 or 3 times a week, and how many other people with or without dogs during the week? It can't be good for the deer.

Just sayin'.


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## JHas (Nov 21, 2007)

:shock:


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

Fishrmn said:


> love2hunt said:
> 
> 
> > I just took a drive from Ogden to Evanston Wy and counted over 30 dead deer on the side of the road. That is a whole lot more than I ever see in the back of trucks and trailers during the hunt. *Why is this never discussed as part of the reason our deer heards are declining?* Why are we not going after the car owners and the home owners that built homes in their wintering areas? I don't disagree that predator control needs to be apart of the solution, but I see so many dead deer on the side of the roads that are not Coyote,Wolf or Cougar caused. Maybe we need to put a bounty on cars?
> ...


ALOT.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

MadHunter said:


> Critter is spot on with his comment on winter range. How do you explain the decline in unpopulated areas?
> 
> One of the biggest factors is the lack of quality habitat. With the supression of wildfires the browse has gotten to mature to provide quality feed for deer. We also have the issue of grazing as well as competition with elk for habitat. Then you add on predators, highway mortality, poaching, doe shoots, etc, etc. What we have here is called a COMPOUNDED PROBLEM and it requires a COMPUNDED SOLUTION!


There is no silver bullet as we all know to the mule deer declines that are happening everywhere in the West but consider this one example.

Decades ago many deer would winter in the valley west of Nephi. They would come down off the hills from the East. Now that I-15 is as big as it is they are mostly stuck with the little sliver that exists on the benches east of Nephi. Everything built on that bench has a huge impact.

Human encroachment I fear is much more complex and has a bigger impact than we often imagine.

Housing itself likely hasn't as large of impact as the roads that go to them.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Got one heck of an idea! Why not limit the number of autos on the road.Do a Biological Impact study that won't mean crap,,, AND GIVE ME AN ARCHERY TAG! THAT I DID NOT DRAW AFTER 48 YEARS!!


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## Bar8spread (Sep 4, 2012)

I agree with Brookie on this one waaaaayyyy to much of the habitat is loosing ground.


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