# Any plumbers on here? Quick question- Water heaters



## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

What are your thoughts on Tankless water heaters vs traditional? I am also on Propane where I live. I do also realize I would have to get a soft water system as well. I currently have two 40 gallon traditional. One is going out and am giving lots of thought to tankless. Thanks for your comments in advance!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm not a plumber, but have used both applications. Tankless will require different exhaust pipe (maybe) from what you currently have if indoors. An external is a little easier. Some make the argument that you have to wait for the water to warm up as it's running, but unless you have a water circulation circuit in place, you have to purge the cooler water from the hot water line with a water heater tank, so you are waiting for water to become warm at the tap regardless.

The upside to a traditional water heater is you can replace it easier than a tankless as most tankless are special order. A traditional you can pick up at any Ace, Home Depot, or Lowe's hardware store.

The upside to tankless is less space and you don't have a pressure vessel with hot water in your house or garage.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> The upside to tankless is less space and you don't have a pressure vessel with hot water in your house or garage.


+1

I'm dealing with high pressure right now. My pressure regulator failed (and its only a year old), so we're getting 90psi from the street and the hotwater heater cycling pushes that upto as much as 110psi. Ugh... appliances are going to start failing soon. I'm replacing the regulator tonight. I think my expansion tank has failed too... but I can't test that until I fix the pressure regulator.

-DallanC


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

hunting777 said:


> What are your thoughts on Tankless water heaters vs traditional? I am also on Propane where I live. I do also realize I would have to get a soft water system as well. I currently have two 40 gallon traditional. One is going out and am giving lots of thought to tankless. Thanks for your comments in advance!


PBH has tankless water heaters and is also on propane. He loves his setup...PM him.


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## Firehawk (Sep 30, 2007)

Tankless may also require special gas piping as the BTU requirements are significantly higher than a standard water heater. And with LP that needs to be designed from the main pressure valve based on what other appliances/equipment is running on propane in your house and the total lengths etc. Same thing for Natural Gas for that matter.

If you are on Rocky Mountain Power, you could also consider a Heat Pump Water Heater, especially since you are on Propane (costs significantly more than gas, especially in winter), and take advantage of a big rebate ($550). Varies a little bit depending on the state (Idaho, Utah and Wyoming), but you can find the incentives here - https://www.wattsmarthomes.com/homeowners/plumbing-and-water-heating/UT

Be prepared for some cost shock though. All water heaters, regardless of type, have gone up significantly in price. Heat Pump water heaters are very efficient, but recovery time is slightly longer than a standard water heater. So plan accordingly if you have a large family or bunches of people taking a shower. Tankless does the best job of providing hot water continuously, assuming it has been sized appropriately (for incoming water temps during the winter which is significantly colder than summer water temps) and gas/LP lines sized appropriately. And as High Desert Elk suggested, you will have to change the venting for the flue. They require special vent piping for that. Some mfg require proprietary flue piping. 

And, make sure you have a proper Expansion tank on your line and a good Pressure Reducing Valve on your main line. These are code requirements for one, but also provide safety.

My Pressure Reducing Valve had gone bad in my home and I went through two water heaters before I realized what was happening. Like Dallan said, high pressures in your home can really wear out your tank fast. Causing premature wear and tear and eventually leaks. Replaced my valve, and all of a sudden my water heater works like a dream and is lasting like it should. 

FH


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Firehawk said:


> My Pressure Reducing Valve had gone bad in my home and I went through two water heaters before I realized what was happening. Like Dallan said, high pressures in your home can really wear out your tank fast. Causing premature wear and tear and eventually leaks. Replaced my valve, and all of a sudden my water heater works like a dream and is lasting like it should.
> 
> FH


FML... I just took this, +110 psi. I'm surprised the hot water heater isn't weeping out the overpressure valve. I just found one toilet shutoff valve is leaking. Grrrrr...

2 hours till I'm off work and can run down and try and find a new pressure regulator.










-DallanC


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm not only on propane, but I'm on a well too. I have a softener installed.

I absolutely LOVE my tankless heater.
Yes, we have a circulation circuit -- I have no idea how it works. What I know is that I typically have hot water within seconds in my shower, which is the furthest fixture away from the heater in the whole house. Not only do I quickly have hot water, but I can stand in the shower under HOT water for as long as I want -- and my wife can run the clothes washer at the same time. In the year that we've been in our house none of us have ever complained about not having hot water. It's great!!

Yes -- it takes less space in my water closet. (+)
Yes -- the venting does not go straight up through my roof (front side of house), but rather makes a 90 and vents out the back where you can't see the pipes sticking up. (+)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I had a tankless in my cabin and liked it. It was in the basement and before we had waterlines ran to the subdivision we hauled water so we had to be conservative because it did take a minute to get the hot water but after we hooked to county line didn't pay much attention to the water loss. It could keep up with the showers running in both bathrooms with no problems.
We are looking to build another cabin this summer and will put in a tankless water heater.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I just had a new water heater installed two months ago. I asked the plumber about a tankless system, and he said it would be close on average of 6K to convert to one. I about dropped over and decided to stay with the tank. This spring, I'll have all new HVAC placed in the house. The furnace and AC are now 15 years old. That's going to be 12K-15K for that alone. 

The plumber said in todays world, that HVAC and water heaters life span is on average 10 years.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I have a old 1970's hot water heat system and LOVE IT. Its ridiculously cheap to run and keeps the house really warm in the winter. If I ever built a cabin, I would put in radiant heat with a "zone" tank heated by a wood burning fireplace . It would be rather simple to create I think, and only require a circulation pump and a fire 

-DallanC


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

taxidermist said:


> I just had a new water heater installed two months ago. I asked the plumber about a tankless system, and he said it would be close on average of 6K to convert to one. I about dropped over and decided to stay with the tank.


Same here, except it was about 1.5 months ago.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Years ago when Iooked at one the response from most was to stick with a tank if that is what you have. But for a new home consider the tankless. 

When I was in Africa 6 years ago the had tankless heaters for our rooms. They told us to turn the hot water on full and then regulate the temperature with the cold. They worked pretty good until you were in the shower and the hot water shut off. Then you had to start the process over again, this was on a propane system. 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I have a old 1970's hot water heat system and LOVE IT. Its ridiculously cheap to run and keeps the house really warm in the winter. If I ever built a cabin, I would put in radiant heat with a "zone" tank heated by a wood burning fireplace . It would be rather simple to create I think, and only require a circulation pump and a fire
> 
> -DallanC


My sister and Bro-in-Law have a radiant heat system in their home that was built (first piece) in 1902 and it is very comfortable. When I was building multi million dollar homes in Park City, we had a boiler system installed for a client that used it for the massive driveway so plowing snow wasn't needed. Some folks are just "stupid rich".


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

DallanC said:


> FML... I just took this, +110 psi. I'm surprised the hot water heater isn't weeping out the overpressure valve. I just found one toilet shutoff valve is leaking. Grrrrr...
> 
> 2 hours till I'm off work and can run down and try and find a new pressure regulator.
> 
> ...


I hear ya. I started getting some extreme water hammer and noisy toilet valves, etc. a short time ago. I bought one of those gauges and found 120psi at my hose bibs.

I replaced the PRV and all has been well since. It was an easy job thankfully but from what I have read, they just don't last like they should.

As for water heaters...I have two 40gal tanks now and have considered switching to tankless or even electric since I have solar. The up front cost is prohibitive for me.

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

So I learned something about the Pressure Regulators at the plumbing supply. They said you need to make sure the house pressure is set to at least 60% of the street pressure. If the valve is set lower than half of the street pressure they wear out quicker than when set at a slightly higher pressure. IDK if thats true, but thats fine, its easy to adjust. I got my valve last night, R&R'd it in 10 minutes, then set the pressure to 60psi and called it good. 

I'm giving it a day for air to work its way out of all lines before digging in deeper to the expansion tank, but it looks like its fine, just set at too low of pressure.

-DallanC


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

DallanC said:


> +1
> 
> I'm dealing with high pressure right now. My pressure regulator failed (and its only a year old), so we're getting 90psi from the street and the hotwater heater cycling pushes that upto as much as 110psi. Ugh... appliances are going to start failing soon. I'm replacing the regulator tonight. I think my expansion tank has failed too... but I can't test that until I fix the pressure regulator.
> 
> -DallanC


Get rid of that pesky backflow preventer in your meter setter and you won’t get pressure build up from your hot water heater.
Oops, did I just say that out loud….


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