# Instagram Cowards



## ridgetop

I didn't really want to specifically bash on Eric C. or Hushin on that other thread but
you can definitely see a pattern where most of these guys/hero's won't post on any big game forums.
It's because they can't handle the criticism and want to be in total control of what comments stay or be deleted on their site.
If anyone post anything negative like shot placement or possible distance a shot was taken, the poster is usually blocked/banned from posting anything else and the post is quickly deleted. 
I've even had these cowards send me threating letters from their attorneys to delete my post on these forums because they can't control what is said on these forums.
Crazy what people will do to keep their sponsors happy.
I know for a fact that one of these guys let his buck lay ungutted for over two hours on the bow hunt, just so he could run to town and get his sponsors ball cap to wear for his instagram pictures.


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## High Desert Elk

I'm lost...


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## stillhunterman

Like I said previously Koby, I really hate the monetization of hunting and wildlife. Unfortunately, what you're talking about here occurs across the spectrum of social media with banning, deleted posts, etc., not just in the hunting realm. The direction things are going with most things "hunting" isn't a good one, at least IMHO...


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## ridgetop

High Desert Elk said:


> I'm lost...


I'm guessing you don't question some of these guys tactics on Instagram.;-)


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## olibooger

Cameron Hanes does that. The face of Hoyt. Once I was able to put the dots together, I've lost interest in them all together. My next bow will certainly not be a Hoyt.

Its social silencing. Like what our president experiences daily. It is crazy how fast our freedom of speech is being taken away. 
Once the building blocks of our country, I.e the constitution begins to be torn apart, I fear the worst. 😕😭


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## Bax*

The internet is filled with fake trolls with thin skin. They can dish it out but can’t handle criticism themselves. 

Hunting really inspires some crazy behavior compared to any other forum I participate in. 

People threatening legal action dont understand how freedom of speech works and unless your comments are slanderous and libelous, you have nothing to fear. 

Posturing and nothing more. 

I had a similar thing happen when I posted a review of a company online. An employee erupted on my wife and threatened to sue us for being honest about our poor experience. Long story short, I told the company what happened and they lost their minds after sharing copies of the texts that were sent to my wife. Not sure what happened to the guy but I’m sure he was in big trouble.


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## RandomElk16

olibooger said:


> Cameron Hanes does that. The face of Hoyt. Once I was able to put the dots together, I've lost interest in them all together. My next bow will certainly not be a Hoyt.
> 
> Its social silencing. Like what our president experiences daily. It is crazy how fast our freedom of speech is being taken away.
> Once the building blocks of our country, I.e the constitution begins to be torn apart, I fear the worst. &#128533;&#128557;


If you are anti "bro", "flat brimmer", "long range archery", and monetization/social media hunting movement... Hoyt is the brand to stay the furthest from. They are the kings of spending marketing dollars on "influencers".

And didn't we just have a thread about these guys? Curious what triggered this Ridge, but also not surprised at all. They are soft about criticism.


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## colorcountrygunner

RandomElk16 said:


> olibooger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Hanes does that. The face of Hoyt. Once I was able to put the dots together, I've lost interest in them all together. My next bow will certainly not be a Hoyt.
> 
> Its social silencing. Like what our president experiences daily. It is crazy how fast our freedom of speech is being taken away.
> Once the building blocks of our country, I.e the constitution begins to be torn apart, I fear the worst. &#128533;&#128557;
> 
> 
> 
> If you are anti "bro", "flat brimmer", "long range archery", and monetization/social media hunting movement... Hoyt is the brand to stay the furthest from. They are the kings of spending marketing dollars on "influencers".
> 
> And didn't we just have a thread about these guys? Curious what triggered this Ridge, but also not surprised at all. They are soft about criticism.
Click to expand...

 sheep shoots hoyt. What a "bro". &#128578;


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## High Desert Elk

ridgetop said:


> I'm guessing you don't question some of these guys tactics on Instagram.;-)


No, I have no clue who or what you're talking about. Who is Eric C. and Hushin and what did they do? Guess I don't follow the right people...


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## RandomElk16

High Desert Elk said:


> No, I have no clue who or what you're talking about. Who is Eric C. and Hushin and what did they do? Guess I don't follow the right people...


You gained points in my book by NOT knowing.


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## RandomElk16

colorcountrygunner said:


> sheep shoots hoyt. What a "bro". &#128578;


I don't know what he shoots, but I am pretty sure he is anti-bro lol.


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## colorcountrygunner

RandomElk16 said:


> colorcountrygunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> sheep shoots hoyt. What a "bro". &#128578;
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what he shoots, but I am pretty sure he is anti-bro lol.
Click to expand...

haha I know he is. I have seen him mention he shoots Hoyt in the past and that Mathews is for the bro gai boy crowds, so I thought it was funny to see someone mention that Hoyt is the official bro bow.


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## katorade

There's a lot of guys out there that want to "Crush Hushin," Let bulls lay over night in warm weather even after they were found. Treat other hunters with different views, with disrespect.

I know of a hunter that wounded a deer, he ran into hushin and told them the area he shot it and if they heard of him turning up, or found him to give him a call. Hushin' knew that buck got killed by another hunter on the last day and still never called, that hunter to say his buck had been killed. You can stop looking, the hunter found out the buck was killed by another hunter a year later.

Every hunter has lost/wounded game. Even "Those guys" but they have there noses aimed to high, and forget that other hunters helped them out. And they forget to pay it back, for reasons unknown maybe they have lost understanding of the true meaning of hunting. Or if they wound an animal it doesn't bother them, beside fake tears in front of the camera.


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## APD

not a fan. this whole branding thing is not my cup of tea. imo, the animal comes first.


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## goosefreak

I mean, I just really cant stand the ears tucked into the hat thing.. For being a mighty hunter one would think you'd know you could hear better with your ears outside your hat like god intended them to be.

Hushin is good at 1 thing, MARKETING! Mr E. killed a big bull on the Boulder what, 6-7 years ago and they marketed the piss out of that bull, built a business and generated revenue allowing them the opportunity to pursuit hunting as a career.

and people buy into it..


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## sheepassassin

colorcountrygunner said:


> sheep shoots hoyt. What a "bro". &#128578;


I am the exact opposite of a bro. I shot hoyt bows before they were 'cool'. I shot competitive target archery starting at 8. At the time, no one made bows that fit youth that were of any quality. Hoyt did, so that's what I started with. I've shot all kinds of bows over the years and hoyt is the best bow I've found IMHO. When I was a little older and was at the top of my game, I was on their shooter staff. I switched to PSE for awhile at the end of my target days because of a better deal. They make a good bow too, I'd shoot one now without any hesitation, I've just been able to get hoyts for a better price. when I quit the target game, I went back to hoyt because they make a great bow and could get a deal on them. I also like that it's a Utah company. Prime and Mathews are the bro bows of all bro bows. If you shoot those, you probably enjoy kissing dudes.


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## sheepassassin

ridgetop said:


> I've even had these cowards send me threating letters from their attorneys to delete my post on these forums because they can't control what is said on these forums.


Monarch Militia definitely earns the Delta Bravo award year after year. I've trolled those clowns so hard! It's funny to see how badass they think they are and even funnier to see how worked up they get over a **** comment! They can't handle ANY criticism, much like zac griffindork. It hilarious to see how good they think they are as hunters, yet every year they come up with some kind of excuse for their failures, like they shot the wrong buck, or their scope turret must have self adjusted and that's why they made a poor shot, or this year with his little deer on the pauns that he needed the biologist track for him after it was hit, because it was wearing a gps collar! They should be embarrassed, not proud. The flexing selfies as they are working out are hysterical.

Anyone that cuts the ears off a cape out of jealousy, on a big buck that someone else shot before they could find it, just to be dicks, needs to be called out every chance they get.


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## colorcountrygunner

sheepassassin said:


> colorcountrygunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> sheep shoots hoyt. What a "bro". &#128578;
> 
> 
> 
> I shot hoyt bows before they were 'cool'.
Click to expand...

 A Hoyt hipster?


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## TPrawitt91

colorcountrygunner said:


> A Hoyt hipster?


Before it was cool is the hipster mantra :rotfl:


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## TPrawitt91

sheepassassin said:


> Monarch Militia definitely earns the Delta Bravo award year after year. I've trolled those clowns so hard! It's funny to see how badass they think they are and even funnier to see how worked up they get over a **** comment! They can't handle ANY criticism, much like zac griffindork. It hilarious to see how good they think they are as hunters, yet every year they come up with some kind of excuse for their failures, like they shot the wrong buck, or their scope turret must have self adjusted and that's why they made a poor shot, or this year with his little deer on the pauns that he needed the biologist track for him after it was hit, because it was wearing a gps collar! They should be embarrassed, not proud. The flexing selfies as they are working out are hysterical.
> 
> Anyone that cuts the ears off a cape out of jealousy, on a big buck that someone else shot before they could find it, just to be dicks, needs to be called out every chance they get.


Wait who cut the ears off of what?!? That sounds like a shameful story


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## kdog

I was shooting hoyt back in the early 80s, it was the top brand by a long shot back the then. Not sure if they where ever "not the cool bow to shoot" they have been good bows for me overall, and even back then they pumped money into the top shooters, social media did not exist but posters and branding sure did, they even had the "rambo" bow that that was super popular.


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## High Desert Elk

kdog said:


> ...they even had the "rambo" bow that that was super popular.


Man, if I could jump up out of the water and shoot a bow as good as John, the big bucks and bulls I could've shot over the years...


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## Vanilla

There are two things that pop up in these discussions that always make me laugh. 

1-Free speech. None of us have free speech on someone else’s Instagram page. None of us have free speech even on this forum. It’s privately owned. The owners can set the rules and moderate it however they want. (You don’t even have free speech rights on your own Instagram page. Instagram can censor you if it wants.) “Free speech” might be the single most misused phrase being tied to a constitutional right that there is in all of America. “I guess there is no thing as free speech anymore!” Nope, because there never was in this context. 

2-Threatened legal action by these online heroes just cracks me up.. The InstaWarriors are regularly sending out threatening letters to people about “slandering” them. First of all, if it’s written, it isn’t slander. I hope for those that are reading this and have done this in the past that you really didn’t pay “your attorney” to write that. Second, even if it is disparaging and totally libel, truth is an absolute defense. Better be careful that what you’re threatening someone to stop saying, it better not be true! Lastly, you all have been working so hard to create a public profile for yourselves in this arena. You know what that means? You’re likely to be found as a “public figure.” Once that happens, good luck suing anyone for slander or libel. See, this whole online hero gig has some downfalls too. It’s not all glory, back slaps, and side tugs in the online hero business. 

Some of these guys that do this are legitimately good folks that just figured out a way to turn a passion that they have into a side business and make a little money while sharing what they do. I actually have a lot of respect for those guys. They don’t bother me a bit. Many, however, win the screaminseagull’s delta bravo award and deserve all the bad run they get, plus some. If you hunt a private ranch with top of the line amenities, including a chef in the lodge‘a kitchen, yet run it online as a “backcountry elk hunt,” man, you really are choice. Theoretically speaking, of course. If you get taken to an sweet deer hunting area by buddies that got you into the hunting game, and then you have a falling out and start taking your whole new crew into that same area every year, again...not cool. Again, theoretically speaking, of course. 

*legal disclaimer: all hypotheticals are fictional, and any resemblance to any real situation that actually happened is purely coincidental :grin:


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## olibooger

I wont go down the rabbit hole too far with this but regarding censoring free speech and private ownership. This is similar to how America is delving into a social credit system like the Chinese have adopted in 2014. Companies here in America wont do business with you if they view your online "social credit score" as being against their standards. It's a gradual thing people become accustomed to and eventually accept without even realizing it.
Similar to a the frog in the pot of water that is gradually being heated to its death. The frog does nothing because it is unaware.
People in China are restricted to eat at certain places, ride public transportation and even have certain jobs or live in certain areas due to their social credit score.

Again, it is a gradual process and it is obviously working because as we see here, people are already siding with "it's their private business and they can censor as they wish"

I'm not looking to start a debate or go any deeper. Especially because this topic is irrelevant to this thread and especially this forum. Research if you want to know more.

As it stands, you're right, these people and companies do have their right to censor as they see fit.

What man doesn't have a John Rambo machismo fetish? John Rambo is bad to the bone!! Too bad Stallone got hosed over for making those films.


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## Vanilla

olibooger said:


> Again, it is a gradual process and it is obviously working because as we see here, people are already siding with "it's their private business and they can censor as they wish"


It's not a gradual process though. Our country has NEVER recognized a private free speech right. Anyone banging this drum of censorship just simply doesn't understand the right and how it has ALWAYS been. And I'm equally not trying to start a debate, because there really isn't anything debatable about that.

Now we can talk about the efficacy of an open forum that only allows certain points of view and censors any others, or if censorship is good business, but that is the beauty of system. If you don't like the forum, don't use it. But you've never had a "right" to free speech on forums like this or like Instagram. Never.


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## olibooger

👌
Es lo que es mi amigo.

I do enjoy the forum. 

Instagram is okay I suppose. Social media in general is kind of 👎in my opinion.

Desensitization however isnt my opinion. And is gradual. But it really doesn't matter for the sake of this forum.

What bothers me is when we see hunters harvesting those crazy bulls or bucks with the wackiest antlers going cooky everywhere. It's like they have been farm raised on hormones to get that way and the person posting is like, "Public Land hunt oh yeah"

I'm not exactly an educated biologist or even hunter for that matter but that to me just doesn't seem right. 🧐🤥🤢🤮


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## MadHunter

High Desert Elk said:


> No, I have no clue who or what you're talking about. Who is Eric C. and Hushin and what did they do? Guess I don't follow the right people...


Then stay lost. You're a better man for it.


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## colorcountrygunner

Vanilla;2144463 If you get taken to an sweet deer hunting area by buddies that got you into the hunting game said:


> https://utahwildlife.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif[/IMG]


 ooh ooh. I know this story. You're talking about cheeser and his old tines up buddies, right?


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## Vanilla

I don't know what you're talking about! 

Just hypothetical examples that could happen, maybe...


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## Aznative

So im good with my Bowtech? Lol


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## High Desert Elk

Vanilla said:


> It's not a gradual process though. Our country has NEVER recognized a private free speech right. Anyone banging this drum of censorship just simply doesn't understand the right and how it has ALWAYS been. And I'm equally not trying to start a debate, because there really isn't anything debatable about that.
> 
> Now we can talk about the efficacy of an open forum that only allows certain points of view and censors any others, or if censorship is good business, but that is the beauty of system. If you don't like the forum, don't use it. But you've never had a "right" to free speech on forums like this or like Instagram. Never.


I do believe "free speech" means, and was meant to be, the ability to engage in public debate on public issues without fear of reprisal. It also was intended to give the ability to disagree openly with government policy as long as it was, and is done, civily for a redress of grievances.

It was never intended, as stated, to give the right to say whatever you want, how you want, and when you want to who you want (or don't want).


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## TPrawitt91

It’s their business and they have every right to present it the way they would like on the platforms they choose. Removing negative comments ands trolls is good for business. Sheep is literally giving these guys work!! Love it or hate it Hushin tries to spread positivity and present to people exactly how it goes down! Trying to be positive is half the battle!

If you are upset at what they present on their channel, you can gripe all you want but they can take your negativity off their content and there is nothing illegal, unfair, or unethical about it. You don’t actually have the “freedom of speech” in “THEIR” comment section.


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## APD

Aznative said:


> So im good with my Bowtech? Lol


yea, as long as you are one of the guys that got the "super duper really built good this time" limbs.


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## DAdams23

Aznative said:


> So im good with my Bowtech? Lol


That's what i shoot!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MuscleWhitefish

colorcountrygunner said:


> haha I know he is. I have seen him mention he shoots Hoyt in the past and that Mathews is for the bro gai boy crowds, so I thought it was funny to see someone mention that Hoyt is the official bro bow.


Here I am thinking that the cross bow was the only gay bow.


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## MuscleWhitefish

Last thing. 



If you do not like what these guys are doing, then do not watch. 



There are better things to do in life than participate in something that is only going to make you frustrated or miserable.


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## RandomElk16

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Last thing.
> 
> If you do not like what these guys are doing, then do not watch.
> 
> There are better things to do in life than participate in something that is only going to make you frustrated or miserable.


I don't watch. I figure one less view, one less follower.

More important than just bad shots and B roll, I don't like anyone who makes that type of profit from wildlife, and doesn't contribute to conservation. #publiclands isn't spreading any awareness for the quit battle happening either. Mtn ops could afford to do a project with their buddies at OnX to unlock even a single plot of land.

They won't though.


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## CPAjeff

RandomElk16 said:


> Mtn ops could afford to do a project with their buddies at OnX to unlock even a single plot of land.
> 
> They won't though.


They won't because that expenditure of funds would cut into their Colorado voucher budgets. What on earth would they do if they couldn't pound their chests and talk about how they trained for the last year to get in shape for their third or fourth season deer tag?


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## TPrawitt91

RandomElk16 said:


> I don't watch. I figure one less view, one less follower.
> 
> More important than just bad shots and B roll, I don't like anyone who makes that type of profit from wildlife, and doesn't contribute to conservation. #publiclands isn't spreading any awareness for the quit battle happening either. Mtn ops could afford to do a project with their buddies at OnX to unlock even a single plot of land.
> 
> They won't though.


Hush and Mtn Ops both have programs set up to donate to conservation.

Hush donates $5.00 from each First Lite/Hush hat they sell to conservation and they recently gave a check from those sales to Utah DNR who was doing a habitat restoration project in Southern Utah. Like a couple weeks ago. They had quite a few posts on Instagram detailing the project.

Mtn Ops has a program that donates 1% if their annual sales to conservation through a group called "2% for Conservation." Details are easy to find on their website.

I understand if you don't like them, but get your facts right, both companies contribute quite a bit of money to conservation.


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## Hoopermat

My would you buy $50 rebranded koolaid. 
I’ll just donate to the conservation funds myself. Rather than buy that over priced crap


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## Hoopermat

I did enjoy when Casey was with the Born and Raised guys. But when Erik is on I just hit the next button. I also can’t get past the ear in hat thing. Let alone the long range archery BS


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## olibooger

Hoopermat said:


> I did enjoy when Casey was with the Born and Raised guys. But when Erik is on I just hit the next button. I also can't get past the ear in hat thing. Let alone the long range archery BS


I do the saaaaame thing. Skippola.

Rebranded koolaid tho?


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## Ray

sheepassassin said:


> ridgetop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've even had these cowards send me threating letters from their attorneys to delete my post on these forums because they can't control what is said on these forums.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Anyone that cuts the ears off a cape out of jealousy, on a big buck that someone else shot before they could find it, just to be dicks, needs to be called out every chance they get.
Click to expand...

What's the story behind this?


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## colorcountrygunner

Ray said:


> sheepassassin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ridgetop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've even had these cowards send me threating letters from their attorneys to delete my post on these forums because they can't control what is said on these forums.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Anyone that cuts the ears off a cape out of jealousy, on a big buck that someone else shot before they could find it, just to be dicks, needs to be called out every chance they get.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the story behind this?
Click to expand...

 I would also like to know.


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## sheepassassin

Ray said:


> What's the story behind this?


Ray, I wouldn't tell you if you were on fire... much less a story like this.

It's not my story to tell. If the person who knows first hand about at least part of this incident, wants to tell it, he can chime in. But from what I've heard, at this point the odds of that happening on a public forum is less than 0.


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## Ray

sheepassassin said:


> Ray said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the story behind this?
> 
> 
> 
> Ray, I wouldn't tell you if you were on fire... much less a story like this.
> 
> It's not my story to tell. If the person who knows first hand about at least part of this incident, wants to tell it, he can chime in. But from what I've heard, at this point the odds of that happening on a public forum is less than 0.
Click to expand...

I can respect that.


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## ridgetop

sheepassassin said:


> Monarch Militia definitely earns the Delta Bravo award year after year. I've trolled those clowns so hard! It's funny to see how badass they think they are and even funnier to see how worked up they get over a **** comment! They can't handle ANY criticism, much like zac griffindork. It hilarious to see how good they think they are as hunters, yet every year they come up with some kind of excuse for their failures, like they shot the wrong buck, or their scope turret must have self adjusted and that's why they made a poor shot, or this year with his little deer on the pauns that he needed the biologist track for him after it was hit, because it was wearing a gps collar! They should be embarrassed, not proud. The flexing selfies as they are working out are hysterical.
> 
> Anyone that cuts the ears off a cape out of jealousy, on a big buck that someone else shot before they could find it, just to be dicks, needs to be called out every chance they get.


I made a comment under a fake name about his lost pauns. buck. He blamed the local C/O for not responding to his calls for help for the reason the buck spoiled. I asked him" what was the property owners (park service) response to getting the deer out? I'm sure he went to them first, right". He quickly deleted my post and banned me from his site! What a tool! Those guys have wounded and lost more deer than any other group that I know of.


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## Lone_Hunter

My 2 cents worth of random thinking:


- These Hushin guys have probably been very carefully crafting this public image. This public image has a direct effect to their revenue. If most people thought them to be D Bags, they'd make no money.

- Online reputations in general, make for a paper thin skin.

- "Long range archery" is a marketing gimmic that I think I fell into believing, but now, not so much. By watching their videos, you get the impression that you need X or Y gear, to make Z shot possible.

- Just to keep being different, I think I might stick to shooting fingers with my 1991 PSE compound bow. No way I'd buy a hoyt after what I've read here. If I ever replace my this old bow, it will be with another PSE.

- I'll bet theres a ton of dirty laundery on Hushin, or at least a lot of skeletons in their closet.

- I still think Flat bills make you look like a D bag or a vanilla ice wannabe, and I still can't stand the ear's tucked into a hat thing. 

- It's high time I went and cleaned up my youtube subscriptions. There really isn't anything to be gained, or learned, buy watching their videos.


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## ShedyGaGa

Interesting Thread.

I am sure we all have skeletons in our closet. No one here is free of dirty laundry when it comes to hunting because no one here is perfect. We have made mistakes hunting and possibly lost an animal or two.

These guys trying to make a living off of something they enjoy doing, have every right to. 

However, what I cannot say for sure (without misjudging their character) is make a statement that they stomp on others and wildlife to maintain their image, which is what I interpret the majority of posts to be directed toward on this thread.

My thought turns toward those who willingly disrespect the wildlife to get ahead in life. Those who play the inches game and shoot/wound until they kill what they are after having no regard for the life they killed or jeopardized by a misplaced shot. 

Ethics should be at the top of the game when it comes to pursuing another life to take it. I cannot make a judgment on these social media hunters because I do not know them and have no proof of their follies. But my opinion of this type of behavior that has been suggested as the norm for these instafame social media folks is that the new hunting society is ruining the sport at a rapid pace by exploiting our wildlife and over-running their habitat with multiple finders just to get the largest animal on the ground to maintain their reputation. 

In my opinion, The trophy is and should only be in the eye of the hunter. Whether it is a spike elk or a two-point buck, The one who killed it, gets to enjoy that experience and memory over and over for the rest of their life. Every animal I have killed is a trophy (of course, not by today's instafame standards) but to me and only me because only I know what it took to pursue that animal, take its life, and pack it out. That process merits the privilege of calling your kill a trophy. Sure, we would all be happy with a large kill but there should be no shame in posting up a proud pic of an animal that does not meet today's social media standards. 

Hopefully the new aged groups getting into the "Youtubing" hunting ring will remember that the life they pursue should not be for fame or money but for the love and passion of the sport and respect for the animal in pursuit.


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## sheepassassin

1- ethics, like the “trophy”, should be left up to each hunter to decide what is right for them. No 2 hunters will match up the same, but that doesn’t mean either are wrong. 

2- im fine with guys shooting small animals. What I’m not fine with, is when they post the pic followed by about 23 different excuses as to why they shot a small animal, which will almost always include these 2 phrases: “he’s not the biggest one on the mountain” and “can’t eat the horns”. Well no chit! We know this. If you have to give ANY excuse for killing that animal 1) don’t shoot the **** thing next time. You’re obviously embarrassed so you have to convince everyone who sees the pic that it’s ok. 2) you probably shot it for the wrong reasons, like maybe just so you have something to post on your account for you friends to ‘like’, To keep up with the crowd. 3) if all you are hunting for is likes, stay the hell home. A deer doesn’t need to die just so you can feel cool.


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## bowgy

???? A unique first post especially bringing up a 7 month old thread ????


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## MadHunter

He's catching up!


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## ridgetop

Speaking of this subject, I understand the ole Militia crew has closed up shop and shut down their site. I guess they just couldn't keep up with deleting all the negative comments that were coming in but that what happens when karma kicks in.


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## RandomElk16

ridgetop said:


> Speaking of this subject, I understand the ole Militia crew has closed up shop and shut down their site. I guess they just couldn't keep up with deleting all the negative comments that were coming in but that what happens when karma kicks in.


Monarch?


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## MooseMeat

RandomElk16 said:


> Monarch?


Bingo. Couldn't take the heat which was a result of their actions. its all rainbows and butterflies in their world. Until they do something stupid. Then they are innocent victims! :roll:


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## APD

RandomElk16 said:


> Monarch?


i've been socially distant from social media since it came out. can someone please explain the issue? is it related to taxidermy?


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## ridgetop

APD said:


> i've been socially distant from social media since it came out. can someone please explain the issue? is it related to taxidermy?


 It's a very, very long story. One I just don't have the time and energy to tell right now. 
But Monarch Militia has nothing to do with taxidermy. 
In short, they are a couple of guys that live in Tooele county and believe if you weren't born in the county, stay the hell out!
More specifically, stay the hell out of the canyons they hunt.


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## MWScott72

Koby, these the guys that threatened you a few years back during the deer hunt when u were way back in?


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## ridgetop

MWScott72 said:


> Koby, these the guys that threatened you a few years back during the deer hunt when u were way back in?


I'm not sure what you're asking?
We usually always hunt between 1 to 4 hours hike from the nearest road.


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## MWScott72

Some guys threatened you in a steep, nasty canyon. I think it was the year u shot one of your larger bucks. I say larger, because they're all big!


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## ridgetop

MWScott72 said:


> Some guys threatened you in a steep, nasty canyon. I think it was the year u shot one of your larger bucks. I say larger, because they're all big!


Al the drama actually started a couple years before I killed my biggest buck. It was a year after one of my buddies killed a monster buck on the rifle hunt. His buck was actually wounded by the MM crew guys during the muzzy hunt. That's when all the drama really got started. I guess we became to much of a threat.


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## bowgy

You're too dangerous for them ridgetop.


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## utarchery

I wouldnt consider myself part of the MM crew but i did work with a couple of the guys for 7 years that you are bashing. they are stand up guys. i was on the hunt down on the pauns with them the first few days and they were after a couple giant deer. all said and done, the hunter ran out of vacation and wasnt going home empty handed after waiting 18 years for a tag. as far as being a small deer, i dont know of many 3 points that break the 180 mark


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## MooseMeat

utarchery said:


> i dont know of many 3 points that break the 180 mark


Well keep looking cuz this one certainly doesn't break 180". You'd probably have to stretch that tape pretty hard to get it to break 170".

https://utahwildlife.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=143449&stc=1&d=1598731382

As far as the Delta Bravo award goes, they've earned it a few times over the years. I've heard some pretty amazing stories about the entitlement they feel on that piece of ground and have experienced it a little myself from them back when they hammered the area I spend a lot of time in. It's fine for you to defend them. Most people would stand up for their friends. However, they've crossed a lot of people over the year's Hunting deer, so that's the reason for the heat they get on social media and on the hill. Cutting that big bucks ears off the cape out of spite? That's just as low as a guy can get.

And before you spout off on the obvious come back, no we aren't "just jealous" of them. We've all killed deer just as big or bigger than they have. There's nothing to be jealous of.


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## utarchery

ive heard a few different stories about the bucks ears but it seems to me that it is just that, a STORY. nobody has proof or saw them do it, nobody was prosecuted but for some reason, somebody had a run in with them and decided to try and pin it on them. and when you saw THEY have crossed a few people over the years, who is they?


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## MooseMeat

utarchery said:


> ive heard a few different stories about the bucks ears but it seems to me that it is just that, a STORY. nobody has proof or saw them do it, nobody was prosecuted but for some reason, somebody had a run in with them and decided to try and pin it on them. and when you saw THEY have crossed a few people over the years, who is they?


Ok. I'm sure they told you their version of events and didn't leave any parts of it out. How convenient. They have a pic of the dead buck in question on their Instagram. What were they doing near it when it wasn't their buck in the first place? Even in their caption on the photo you can feel the bitterness attitude about the whole thing. That's pretty clear evidence that they were around the deer. It places them at the scene of the crime. No one else is suspected to be around that deer except for the better hunter that killed the deer before them.

You know who THEY are. Im not gonna start naming names. THEY get really touchy when THEY start getting accused of things THEY might have done. THEY start yelling, screaming, crying, threatening and sending lawyers after people in the end. But it's cool. Believe your friends. I choose to believe other people. That's what's great about America. We can have our own opinions and beliefs.


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## utarchery

im asking for clarification. it seems like alot of accusations going on and nobody will go in depth etc


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## MooseMeat

utarchery said:


> im asking for clarification. it seems like alot of accusations going on and nobody will go in depth etc


I can't go into depth with you on the subject. I didn't witness the cape cutting catastrophe, I've only heard about it from other witnesses who were on the mountain when it took place. The only personal dealings I've had was I got grilled about my interest in the area I was in, why I was hunting there if I wasn't from the area and that the mountain wasn't big enough for that many guys to be hunting it (4 total, including me). They also told me that I didn't have any business being there and that I was an unethical/unsportsmanlike intruder into their hunting grounds that they had scouted all summer, even if I was the first guy up the hill that particular day. They found it very unethical that I would even consider hunting an area that someone else had scouted and that I knew were going to be in there hunting and I was encroaching on THEIR hunt if I continued to hunt in that area as well. Keep in mind that at the time this was going on, I was still a "kid". It's bad enough that you have bully's at school, but then you get to deal with them on the mountain as well. If you need clarification, then ask your friends. Although I'm sure you'll get a slightly altered version of the story. But I know I wasn't the only one who absolutely hated seeing that yellow ATV anywhere near that place when a hunt was going. Lots of frequent flyers of the location knew it wasnt a matter of IF, but WHEN there would be a confrontation when they saw it in the area. I wasn't sad to see it leave for greener pastures, however it seems they just became a panty wadded mess for others, somewhere else.


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## Brettski7

MooseMeat said:


> I can't go into depth with you on the subject. I didn't witness the cape cutting catastrophe, I've only heard about it from other witnesses who were on the mountain when it took place. The only personal dealings I've had was I got grilled about my interest in the area I was in, why I was hunting there if I wasn't from the area and that the mountain wasn't big enough for that many guys to be hunting it (4 total, including me). They also told me that I didn't have any business being there and that I was an unethical/unsportsmanlike intruder into their hunting grounds that they had scouted all summer, even if I was the first guy up the hill that particular day. They found it very unethical that I would even consider hunting an area that someone else had scouted and that I knew were going to be in there hunting and I was encroaching on THEIR hunt if I continued to hunt in that area as well. Keep in mind that at the time this was going on, I was still a "kid". It's bad enough that you have bully's at school, but then you get to deal with them on the mountain as well. If you need clarification, then ask your friends. Although I'm sure you'll get a slightly altered version of the story. But I know I wasn't the only one who absolutely hated seeing that yellow ATV anywhere near that place when a hunt was going. Lots of frequent flyers of the location knew it wasnt a matter of IF, but WHEN there would be a confrontation when they saw it in the area. I wasn't sad to see it leave for greener pastures, however it seems they just became a panty wadded mess for others, somewhere else.


This seems to be a common attitude in the hunting community these days it seems. It's pretty pathetic and sad actually. I'm more than willing to help someone out with pointers, tips, etc. I've offered numerous times to just tag along with someone to learn and help pack out meat. Heck I'd even share cam pics if I had any.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ray

Sound like Douche bags to me. Anyone know where they hunt now? I’ll go hunt all over that **** 😂


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## ridgetop

utarchery said:


> im asking for clarification. it seems like alot of accusations going on and nobody will go in depth etc


I'll be more than happy to talk to you through a PM


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## Huge29

The one story that seems consistent with the MM boys is that they have been doing all kinds of really unethical stuff for decades, but there is no shred of evidence even in this age of every single person over age 5 having a cell phone that can record video or take pics. Mostly told by third persons and no one has any first hand experience. I am exaggerating but it sure seems like there are dozens of stories out there that everyone knows third hand...


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## utarchery

pm sent ridge


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## ridgetop

Huge29 said:


> The one story that seems consistent with the MM boys is that they have been doing all kinds of really unethical stuff for decades, but there is no shred of evidence even in this age of every single person over age 5 having a cell phone that can record video or take pics. Mostly told by third persons and no one has any first hand experience. I am exaggerating but it sure seems like there are dozens of stories out there that everyone knows third hand...


 Do you seriously think that most, if any sportsman would just whip out their cell phone and start recording a fellow hunter that comes up to them to talk?
Not knowing what they are going to say.

Moosemeat and myself have both said we have had first hand experiences with these guys and after sharing our stories with the public. We have had others come forward with the own experiences with us.


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## ridgetop

To be fair to the entire MM group. I've only had contact with Jason R. and Mike S. The other guys may indeed be stand up guys.


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## Vanilla

ridgetop said:


> Moosemeat and myself have both said we have had first hand experiences with these guys and after sharing our stories with the public. We have had others come forward with the own experiences with us.


That's what I was thinking. We haven't seen people saying "I've got a friend that told me x...y...z"

We've got people saying "I saw this myself."

Not really third person accounts of speculation.


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## MooseMeat

Huge29 said:


> The one story that seems consistent with the MM boys is that they have been doing all kinds of really unethical stuff for decades, but there is no shred of evidence even in this age of every single person over age 5 having a cell phone that can record video or take pics. Mostly told by third persons and no one has any first hand experience. I am exaggerating but it sure seems like there are dozens of stories out there that everyone knows third hand...


Uh.... maybe work on your reading comprehension skills a little more. Myself and ridge have both said we have had personal experiences with them. :roll:


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## APD

Is MM the same guy that got busted hunting on the same private property twice, lost a bull and is currently under a hunting ban? I get confused with all the different social media hunters on who's who, which one is currently banned and which ones are about to be banned from hunting. There's got to be a spread sheet somewhere to keep them all straight.


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## ridgetop

APD said:


> Is MM the same guy that got busted hunting on the same private property twice, lost a bull and is currently under a hunting ban? I get confused with all the different social media hunters on who's who, which one is currently banned and which ones are about to be banned from hunting. There's got to be a spread sheet somewhere to keep them all straight.


You're thinking of someone else.

But since utarchery and Moosemeat brought up the 3 point that was lost inside of Bryce Canyon National Park that Jray wounded on his Pauns. archery hunt. Jray blamed the DWR for not responding to his plea for help for the reason the buck was left to rot.

On instagram, I asked him why he didn't go straight to the park service and tell them he had a buck down that needed to be retrieved. He instantly deleted my post and banned me from their site.
The Pauns. is a huge unit, why the heck hunt right on the border with a chance of loosing a buck if it crosses the boundary?
Instead of just answering the question, they took the coward route and deleted the comment.


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## MooseMeat

ridgetop said:


> You're thinking of someone else.
> 
> But since utarchery and Moosemeat brought up the 3 point that was lost inside of Bryce Canyon National Park that Jray wounded on his Pauns. archery hunt. Jray blamed the DWR for not responding to his plea for help for the reason the buck was left to rot.
> 
> On instagram, I asked him why he didn't go straight to the park service and tell them he had a buck down that needed to be retrieved. He instantly deleted my post and banned me from their site.
> The Pauns. is a huge unit, why the heck hunt right on the border with a chance of loosing a buck if it crosses the boundary?
> Instead of just answering the question, they took the coward route and deleted the comment.


It's always funny to see how the Insta-clowns handle pressure or anything against the grain regarding them. They don't like anything negative unless it's on their terms and it could possibly benefit them in the long run.

I'm still laughing at the score of that 3 point! "180..." hahahahahahahahaha that's hilarious


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## Vanilla

Old Jray is in this “crew?” Maybe I knew that at one point, but must have forgotten. Yeah, that dude had issues on this forum. Not shocked to hear the in-person representations.


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## MooseMeat

APD said:


> Is MM the same guy that got busted hunting on the same private property twice, lost a bull and is currently under a hunting ban? I get confused with all the different social media hunters on who's who, which one is currently banned and which ones are about to be banned from hunting. There's got to be a spread sheet somewhere to keep them all straight.


No that was mr muleyfelon aka erik vanwoerkom that you are thinking of haha


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## ridgetop

Ray said:


> Sound like Douche bags to me. Anyone know where they hunt now? I'll go hunt all over that **** &#128514;


Ray, I wouldn't do something like that to anyone. Even someone I didn't like.

Kind of funny though, I feel like they did that exact thing to me.
Why so, you ask.
Well in 2014, a year after my run in with them while hunting canyon A.
After telling them that I'd be spending more time in Canyon B the following year. I start hearing from locals that Mike S. has been seeing a giant buck up in Canyon B. So in 2015 I'm spending a lot of time in canyon C. and we have another hunter come in and shoots a very nice buck on the muzzy hunt. We were after that buck all through the archery hunt and during the muzzy and told that hunter that. Jray ends up killing a nice 30" buck in Canyon A but all the locals are saying his buck was killed in canyon C. In 2016, I keep hearing rumors about Jray and Mike seeing some great bucks in Canyons B and C but all the while I know they are only hunting canyon A.

It's something I can't prove but it sure seems like a DB move to be telling other hunters that your hunting and scouting giant bucks in canyons that your really not spending time in and in fact, the canyons being talked about are the same canyons that the wolfpack of guys you hate dearly are spending their time in.
Is it just a coincidence or is it someone trying to get back at me and my friends and ruin our hunts?
Anyways, I won't play that game.


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## RandomElk16

Huge29 said:


> The one story that seems consistent with the MM boys is that they have been doing all kinds of really unethical stuff for decades, but there is no shred of evidence even in this age of every single person over age 5 having a cell phone that can record video or take pics. Mostly told by third persons and no one has any first hand experience. I am exaggerating but it sure seems like there are dozens of stories out there that everyone knows third hand...


So kind of like Mossback?

None of them can be true.

Utah Archer also brought up prosecution.. because their aren't dofuses running around that have never been? Now take it outdoors and it's substantially harder to prosecute.

As far as recording.. Let me go ahead and show you videos of me trying to record deer 100 yards away on a cell phone and get back to me with how well it works. Also I can throw a few out here that have been holding the phone to binos lol. They are awful. When you encounter a stranger, or especially a group and you are alone, often times your first instinct isn't to pull out your phone. So there are a number of reasons why filming in situations may not occur.


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## Vanilla

RandomElk16 said:


> So kind of like Mossback?


I actually think Huge's post applies way more to Mossback than what we're seeing here. I honestly don't know if I've read a first person account of a bad Mossback encounter. I've hear about an awful lot of them, but I don't recall it ever being from the person that actually had the encounter. We're reading in this very thread two people claiming to have had the encounters themselves. So there is a bit of a difference there.

Honestly, remembering how one of those members was on this forum, hearing about conflict in the woods is not shocking at all.


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## RandomElk16

Vanilla said:


> I actually think Huge's post applies way more to Mossback than what we're seeing here. I honestly don't know if I've read a first person account of a bad Mossback encounter. I've hear about an awful lot of them, but I don't recall it ever being from the person that actually had the encounter. We're reading in this very thread two people claiming to have had the encounters themselves. So there is a bit of a difference there.
> 
> Honestly, remembering how one of those members was on this forum, hearing about conflict in the woods is not shocking at all.


Not to mention, Ridge isn't the type to make crap up or play the telephone game.

I know the MM from outside here and am not shocked at all.


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## DallanC

Huge29 said:


> The one story that seems consistent with the MM boys is that they have been doing all kinds of really unethical stuff for decades, but there is no shred of evidence even in this age of every single person over age 5 having a cell phone that can record video or take pics. Mostly told by third persons and no one has any first hand experience. I am exaggerating but it sure seems like there are dozens of stories out there that everyone knows third hand...


Are you kidding? Founder himself posted unethical stories bragging about screwing over other hunters... he even banned his own moderators for calling him out on it.

-DallanC


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## Packout

DallanC said:


> Are you kidding?


They aren't talking about that MM.


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## DallanC

Haha ok, I'll bow out... I havent been involved with 'MM' in too long to know what it means anymore apparently.

-DallanC


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## Vanilla

"MM" = Monarch Militia Outdoors.

https://www.instagram.com/monarch_militia_outdoors/?hl=en


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## Vanilla

greatness1987 said:


> I guess they are free to post whatever they want


And THAT is why we call you greatness!


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