# Do I have to be nice?



## GCKid (Sep 11, 2007)

Okay, here is my problem. I generally help new hunters find locations where they can find Sage Grouse and Huns but I am pretty guarded with my chukar locations.

Since Parker Mountain is closed to Sage Grouse hunting this year, everybody who hunted there will be putting in for other locations. Because of the number of additional people putting in for West Box Elder, I doubt I will get a permit this year because I had them last year and I have no preference points.

Since these Parker Mountain hunters will be basically preventing me from getting tags, do I need to be nice and help them find their birds or can I tell them to pound sand since they took my tags?

What would you do?


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## Hill Hunter (Dec 1, 2017)

GCKid said:


> What would you do?


Not bother putting in and go to WY. Not only is the parker closed, but the number of permits in the other areas are down too.

But to actually answer your question, I would tell them how to find birds in general terms. It is a hunt after all, not a drive to a GPS point and shoot a bird.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I would recommend that you not come online and say you know where sage hens are in West Box Elder County unless you want to give out the information and encourage others to apply
If people want to hunt a specific species I would hope they research all the areas that would allow them to hunt that species. Then make a decision which benefits them the most.

But that is just me.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I don’t recall anyone asking


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

You owe no one anything nor is it their fault you won't likely get a tag.

If someone asks a sincere question about location I tend to believe in either answering it with the relevant details or assertively explaining why you don't provide such information.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Or just move on to the next discussion 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Critter said:


> Or just move on to the next discussion
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


Where’s the fun in that?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I've never seen the thrill in shooting at a bird that you walk up to, then have to wait for it to move away so you don't blow it up when you shoot it. At least that's been my experience with sage hens.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> I've never seen the thrill in shooting at a bird that you walk up to, then have to wait for it to move away so you don't blow it up when you shoot it. At least that's been my experience with sage hens.


My experience with blues a lot if times. My last few I have shot with a bow. Most time the shotty makes it looks like someone ripped open a pillow.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

taxidermist said:


> I've never seen the thrill in shooting at a bird that you walk up to, then have to wait for it to move away so you don't blow it up when you shoot it. At least that's been my experience with sage hens.


I switch to archery when I have the need for grouse.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> I've never seen the thrill in shooting at a bird that you walk up to, then have to wait for it to move away so you don't blow it up when you shoot it. At least that's been my experience with sage hens.


When you hunt upland birds with a pointing dog their behavior changes and they become much more sporting and harder to kill, especially forest grouse. Birds are naturally more attune to escaping and evading four legged critters, being that we bi-peds arrived to this side of the globe 30,000+ years ago those birds haven't quite got the message we are scary yet. Try hunting them with a dog and your attitude may change.

As to the GCKid's question--Tell em to pound sand ! Better yet--find someone with 4 or 5 sage grouse points and put in with them in trade for taking them out. Both benefit and you get to hunt and help a noob.

Just so ya'll know, in the Utah upland world GCKid (if it is who I think it is--first name starts with an 'S') has a Cred score that is literally off the charts. The guy is easily in the top ten chukar killers in the state. Whatever moosemeat is to ducks, GCKid is to Chukars. I'm vouchin' for his cred here as I'm confident he does get asked A LOT on where to find birds--it's a legit question that the keyboard warriors here may not understand. Imagine they shut down swan hunting on three quarters of the GSL, would the waterfowl guys help those displaced swan killers to find new areas on some difficult tags to get? Same kinda thing here


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I assumed it was self-evident people would ask. It's common with ungulates, why not upland birds? 

I laugh at mocking upland hunting. Compared to what, rifle hunting elk? An animal that you can stalk up on and shoot broadside from 200+ yards? With a reliable ballistic.

Maybe I'm just hunting the wrong area but the duskies I find aren't just sitting on the ground taunting me to shoot them. 

And chukars are demon spawn who literally know where I love, sit on my dog house and taunt me during the off season.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> I assumed it was self-evident people would ask. It's common with ungulates, why not upland birds?
> 
> I laugh at mocking upland hunting. Compared to what, rifle hunting elk? An animal that you can stalk up on and shoot broadside from 200+ yards? With a reliable ballistic.
> 
> ...


I’ve shot more chukars from a 2 track than I have elk… and grouse will literally stand there, feet away, and watch you pick up the rock you are going to kill the with. Elk don’t generally stand there to see what your intentions are


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Guess I see wilder birds. I have yet to see a dusky not run or flush that was on the ground. Not to mention the post-climax forests they reside in here that are often too dense to take an ethical shot.

I got within 100 yards of trophy elk my first two seasons of scouting. Just didn't have the right tag. I found elk every season I've been out (not mulies though). When I hunt grouse I can go weeks without seeing them despite covering hundred+ miles in a good season. 

It's almost like most big game and upland hunting is a true sport with uncertain, variable outcomes. Hence my original point but I'll make it clearer.... trying to dismiss an entire type of wild game hunting is silly. It's pretty simple in the end...if you don't find hunting wild grouse sporting then don't take the shot. I've only had that opportunity once as a bird who sat on a limb without a care in the world. The rest fly away like their life depends on it. 

I'll skip many a hunt for my own ethics. I have no interest in hunting sandhill cranes. You won't ever find me hunting prairie dogs anytime soon. But I won't diss it either. Only hunt I find problematic is releasing pen raised pheasant every Friday night at dusk into non-native terrain. It's so low ethic I literally saw a northern harrier indiscriminately shot one year. And that doesn't account for the rumors that DWR spins birds in bags for the youth hunt. I hope that's a false allegation as that flies against every ethic I was ever told about the American hunting model.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

And a friendly PSA...rocks and sling shot kills aren't legal take for upland game.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

90% of the duskys that I see are on the ground and the only what that you are going to get them to fly is to kick them in the rear and I see them is some remote country. And while it isn't legal in Utah to take them with a rifle, slingshot, rocks, or logs I have taken my fair share of them in other states where it is legal to use the other methods. At one time I believe that I had shot more with a high power rifle than I did with a shotgun. But over the last bunch of years that old shotgun is catching up real fast if it hasn't surpassed the rifle for the number of birds that it has accounted for. I have also taken a number of them with a slingshot when I was hunting and didn't have a shotgun in my hands. I even accounted for a double with a .54 caliber muzzle loader shooting 430 grain maxi balls. Took two heads off with a single shot. I had to wait until they were lined up just right.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Different experience here, for sure. I see them feeding on the ground about half the time but they flush from 15-30 yards. Could be my area or my skill causing it. 

Are people ground pounding their upland bird quarry on a regular basis?

And yes, the PSA was solely for Utah. My friend regularly hunts grouse with his rifle in another state. And I've heard slingshots were a tradition in the past.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> And that doesn't account for the rumors that DWR spins birds in bags for the youth hunt. I hope that's a false allegation as that flies against every ethic I was ever told about the American hunting model.


They hook fish in the mouth before they release them at the youth fishing deal on salem pond every year. Shaking birds for youth to kill isn’t beneath them I don’t think.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

backcountry said:


> And a friendly PSA...rocks and sling shot kills aren't legal take for upland game.


Amazing that a weapon such as a rock, used as hunting tools for thousands of years, is illegal to kill a game bird with. What a world we live in.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

.....


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I also can't run nekkid through the forest killing deer with an atlatl while high on Ayahuasca. Life just isn't fair or logical sometimes 😁


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Airborne said:


> When you hunt upland birds with a pointing dog their behavior changes and they become much more sporting and harder to kill, especially forest grouse. Birds are naturally more attune to escaping and evading four legged critters,


True!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GCKid said:


> Okay, here is my problem. I generally help new hunters find locations where they can find Sage Grouse and Huns but I am pretty guarded with my chukar locations.
> 
> Since Parker Mountain is closed to Sage Grouse hunting this year, everybody who hunted there will be putting in for other locations. Because of the number of additional people putting in for West Box Elder, I doubt I will get a permit this year because I had them last year and I have no preference points.
> 
> ...


It doesn't bother me to tell people where the sage grouse are around Evingston.

Some are north of town and some are east of town.

You're welcome.


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## GCKid (Sep 11, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> It doesn't bother me to tell people where the sage grouse are around Evingston.
> 
> Some are north of town and some are east of town.
> 
> You're welcome.


Well that would be easy. From Grouse Creek, some are north of town, some are east of town, and some are west of town. Same with Park Valley except you can find some south of town. There you have it. All done!


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## GCKid (Sep 11, 2007)

middlefork said:


> I would recommend that you not come online and say you know where sage hens are in West Box Elder County unless you want to give out the information and encourage others to apply
> If people want to hunt a specific species I would hope they research all the areas that would allow them to hunt that species. Then make a decision which benefits them the most.
> 
> But that is just me.


If it was only that easy. I think I blew my online presence many many years ago. I just don't post on this forum much.


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## GCKid (Sep 11, 2007)

Airborne said:


> When you hunt upland birds with a pointing dog their behavior changes and they become much more sporting and harder to kill, especially forest grouse. Birds are naturally more attune to escaping and evading four legged critters, being that we bi-peds arrived to this side of the globe 30,000+ years ago those birds haven't quite got the message we are scary yet. Try hunting them with a dog and your attitude may change.
> 
> As to the GCKid's question--Tell em to pound sand ! Better yet--find someone with 4 or 5 sage grouse points and put in with them in trade for taking them out. Both benefit and you get to hunt and help a noob.
> 
> Just so ya'll know, in the Utah upland world GCKid (if it is who I think it is--first name starts with an 'S') has a Cred score that is literally off the charts. The guy is easily in the top ten chukar killers in the state. Whatever moosemeat is to ducks, GCKid is to Chukars. I'm vouchin' for his cred here as I'm confident he does get asked A LOT on where to find birds--it's a legit question that the keyboard warriors here may not understand. Imagine they shut down swan hunting on three quarters of the GSL, would the waterfowl guys help those displaced swan killers to find new areas on some difficult tags to get? Same kinda thing here


You must have clicked on my link. I don't hide very well with fake usernames. I am a "Has Been" chukar hunter. I can't hit the **** things anymore but I sure go through a lot of lead (I mean steel).


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