# To those who don't use indicators



## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

I have had fairly good success with indicators, but I have heard that the best fisherman are the ones who don't use them. I am going to try to make the transition from indicator to no indicator. I need some tips on gear (fly line, wieght, leader etc.), and just some basic tips on "feeling" the strikes and knowing how deep your nymphs are. And how do you fish without an indicator when casting upstream? This seems hard to me.


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## HopperLover (Jul 7, 2008)

I've thought about doing the same thing. After fly fishing essentially the same way for 9 years, I need to learn a new skill. I know the Europeans do it this way, and kick the butt of the "strike indicator" Americans in fly fishing contests . I have no idea how to do it, however. Gotta work on the addiction to the strike indicator.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

When fishing without an indicator, you will have to watch your line for an indication of a strike or bite.

I will watch the section where the tapered leader is attached to my butt section.

This is much the same as using an indicator but you will see less and feel more.

When using a sinking line, it's all feel.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

lehi said:


> I have had fairly good success with indicators, I am going to try to make the transition from indicator to no indicator. I need some tips on gear (fly line, wieght, leader etc.), and just some basic tips on "feeling" the strikes and knowing how deep your nymphs are. And how do you fish without an indicator when casting upstream? This seems hard to me.





> but I have heard that the best fisherman are the ones who don't use them.


Oh...Thank You !! I never use 'em.....



> And how do you fish without an indicator when casting upstream


Tight lines brother !! :wink:


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Do a search on the web for "High Sticking" or Czech or Polish Nymphing. Or best yet, go to Cabelas and seek out Lance Egan. Or get the book "Nymph Fishing for Larger Trout" by Charles Brooks, he was using that method on the Madison years before it became the rage of the fly fishing competitions.


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## FishMogul (Sep 8, 2007)

I have tried it a few times just out of necesity ... thing is like .45 said need to really mend the line and keep it tight.


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## tap (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah, definitely do a google search for Czech Nymphing.

I am not good at it by any means, but I started trying it the last two summer and caught a few fish. For me, it is definitely more fun than using indicators and it is a really good way to canvas a lot of river bottom. It seems like the two biggest things for me were being in the right water where I could get close to the fish without them getting spooked (usually faster moving shallower water for me) and making sure I used a fast sinking nymph setup so that it could get down fast enough. They have special nymphs just for Czech nymphing, but you can definitely use this method with normal nymphs as long as they are streamlined enough to sink fast. Another thing is distinguishing between actual strikes and the nymph just rolling over rocks and things on the bottom. At first, you will be trying to set the hook on phantom fish a lot.

This site was helpful to me:

http://www.czechnymphs.co.uk/CzechNymphing.htm


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I've never really taken to using float style indicators. But I do use a dry fly as my indicator in a dry and dropper set up. Determine how deep the stream is where you are fishing. Then tie on some tippet to the bend of your indicator hook that is as long as the stream is deep, plus about 1/3. So if the stream is 18 inches deep, add 1/3, or 6 more inches, and tie in 24 inches of tippet to your dry fly. Then tie your nymph, or dropper to that. Dry and dropper set ups are a great way to fish most streams. I might pinch a small split shot about 8 inches above the nymph some times to make sure it gets down. If you are not feeling the bottom and hanging up once in a while, your dropper line isn't long enough.

Fly suggestions for the dry - elk hair caddis, wulff patterns, humpies, stimulators, or hoppers. 
For your dropper, use the standard nymphs - pheasant tail, wd40, chamois caddis, hare's ear, sow bug, whatever works for you. 

The advantage is the dry works as your indicator, but you'll still get the feel you're after. AND many times, I've taken fish on the indicator fly. On a couple of occassions, I've double hooked - one on each fly - one of those rare days when the fishing gods smile on you, and want to laugh at you at the same time.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> I've never really taken to using float style indicators. But I do use a dry fly as my indicator in a dry and dropper set up. Determine how deep the stream is where you are fishing. Then tie on some tippet to the bend of your indicator hook that is as long as the stream is deep, plus about 1/3. So if the stream is 18 inches deep, add 1/3, or 6 more inches, and tie in 24 inches of tippet to your dry fly. Then tie your nymph, or dropper to that. Dry and dropper set ups are a great way to fish most streams. I might pinch a small split shot about 8 inches above the nymph some times to make sure it gets down. If you are not feeling the bottom and hanging up once in a while, your dropper line isn't long enough.
> 
> Fly suggestions for the dry - elk hair caddis, wulff patterns, humpies, stimulators, or hoppers.
> For your dropper, use the standard nymphs - pheasant tail, wd40, chamois caddis, hare's ear, sow bug, whatever works for you.
> ...


+1


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## Nueces (Jul 22, 2008)

I have fished midge off a foam hopper, the hopper is my indicator and seems to help set the hook.


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## troutwhisperer (Jan 1, 2009)

I really like Grandpa D post, and yes keep a tight line & mend when needed. With lots of pratice you can become very proficient with out a indicator, I personally dont like droppers of bigger flies, but thats just me. I use a 4wt or 3 wt that are very sensitive, I like to go almost by feel, at times I can even feel the fish whisper" CRAP he got me!" :mrgreen:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

Lehi, given my choice, I’d rather fish dry flies all day long when possible. The rest of the time fishing a nymph rig without an indicator is not rocket science. There has already been a fishcrapload of very good suggestions in this thread, so the following is simply one dude’s off the wall opinion. I've been fly fishing without an indicator most of my life. If you ever want to hit the Weber or the Provo, send me a pm. Like .45 said, keep the line fairly tight, mend, hold the stick high, and sort of pretend that you're fishing a worm or salmon eggs on the drift. It's a combination of feel and watching the line as has already been said. I can show you how I do it, but you have to get a feel for it yourself and pay very close attention to everything that is going on in the river. If you do choose to go without that indicator for some time, you will inevitably be a better fisherman when you go back to using one. Stick to it when everyone else seems to be out fishing you the easy way.

Honestly, I simply hate using indicators unless it’s a dry dropper combo, but I only do that on rare occasions. Although, I will admit that under very difficult conditions an indicator will come in handy; nevertheless, I only put one on as a last resort when those delicate mouthy strikes simply can't be detected and there will always be those times. Some people think I'm strange, but I'm good with that. I just grew up fishing without a silly floating device attached to my line. I get a good laugh from folks who use the new bobber type indicators. Good grief might just as well use a spinning rod and clear bubble. :lol: Half the fun of fly fishing for me is going about it the Hard Way. I do not necessarily think that Tred Barta rocks, but sometimes a good challenge is the way. My standard rig is a 5 wt. rod, yet I'm very picky about my tapered leaders and tippet. I adjust my sinkers to give me the right depth.

Alas, if all else fails, Try stripping that Zonker slathered in Anchovy Smelly Jelly, or you could even put a dab of salmon egg flavor jelly on a glow bug. Maybe we should start a thread on how to cheat eh? The .45 does this sort of stuff all the time.


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## cheech (Sep 25, 2007)

For me, fishing an indicator really depends on what the water is like. Sans indicator is very effective in deep slow pools etc, but I really like fishing a tiny piece of yarn, a coil of mono, pinch on foam, etc, for skinny water and a shallow rig.

I think a lot of anglers equate nymphing with the Provo and the Weber since they are the rivers they fish the most. For me... I prefer an indicator on most of the Provo, but none on the Weber.

What I'm trying to say is.... Don't make a decision to go completely without indicators, but make a decision to add indicator-less fishing to your arsenal.


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## Pez Gallo (Dec 27, 2007)

cheech said:


> For me, fishing an indicator really depends on what the water is like. Sans indicator is very effective in deep slow pools etc, but I really like fishing a tiny piece of yarn, a coil of mono, pinch on foam, etc, for skinny water and a shallow rig.
> 
> I think a lot of anglers equate nymphing with the Provo and the Weber since they are the rivers they fish the most. For me... I prefer an indicator on most of the Provo, but none on the Weber.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is.... Don't make a decision to go completely without indicators, but make a decision to add indicator-less fishing to your arsenal.


Best post on this thread right there. Consider an indicator as a tool for a job. Sometimes it is the right tool, sometimes not.


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## troutscout (Feb 12, 2009)

The Czech way uses a straight, non-tapered leader to help the flies sink quicker. Every little thing helps. ^^ike


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

BERG said:


> *Some people think I'm strange*, but I'm good with that.
> 
> NO !!!!!!!! :shock:
> 
> ...


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## MEEN (Jan 27, 2009)

> The Czech way uses a straight, non-tapered leader to help the flies sink quicker.


Not only does it help the fly sink deeper but its more sensitive for determining strikes and the bottom of the river. The non-tapered leader does not have the curly Q you normally get where your tapered leader attaches to the flyline. This makes a huge difference.


> I prefer an indicator on most of the Provo, but none on the Weber.


I completely agree. The Weber is one of the best places to fish without an indicator. Every river is different and not any one method is ideal for each river.


> But I do use a dry fly as my indicator in a dry and dropper set up.


The dry and dropper method is one of the best methods IMHO. It's legal for the european fly fishing competitions and it's the method I used nearly all of the time for clients when I was a guide.

The biggest piece of advice I can give about fishing without an indicator is you want to pull the flies through the water slightly faster than the current. I normally make a cast and immediately mend up stream once the flies hit the water in order to get the flies deep. I then keep my rod high and pull the flies just slightly faster down stream. The fish won't notice if the flies are coming just a tad faster than the current but they will notice if they are traveling across the current. So when you pull the flies down stream make sure its inline with the current. If you can't feel your flies barely ticking the bottom of the river every once in awhile then add more weight. Its important to get those flies down. Hope that helps.


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

.45 said:


> BERG said:
> 
> 
> > *Some people think I'm strange*, but I'm good with that.
> ...


You are always telling tall tales you silly guy. Everyone knows that you use smelly Jelly, and that you hoard fish in your freezer. You're not fooling anyone. I've reported you to the DWR dozens of times, but there's some guy who works over there who keeps deleting my complaints from the system. I suppose it's not how you break the law, but rather who you know that matters. :wink:


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

HopperLover said:


> I've thought about doing the same thing. After fly fishing essentially the same way for 9 years, I need to learn a new skill. I know the Europeans do it this way, and kick the butt of the "strike indicator" Americans in fly fishing contests . I have no idea how to do it, however. Gotta work on the addiction to the strike indicator.


 The reason for this is strike indicators are not allowed in international cometitions, nor is weight allowed to be added to the line.


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## tap (Jun 27, 2008)

flyguy7 said:


> The reason for this is strike indicators are not allowed in international cometitions, nor is weight allowed to be added to the line.


I didn't realize that. Good information.

The page below also talks about how the unavailability of fly line in at least some countries in Eastern Europe in the '80s contributed to the evolution of Czech Nymphing:

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/czech/


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## Tyson (Dec 27, 2007)

I go back and forth depending on conditions. Generally I like no indicator unless most of the water I want to cover happens to be downstream from where I am. In that case I like to have an indicator, not really to detect a strike, but so I can feed out more line and keep the flies drifting straight down stream instead of swinging into the bank...if that makes any sense.

Favorite nymphing water is Weber and Lower P.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

I like not using indicators. I guess I've just gotten used to the way it feels and looks like. Keep the lines mended, like others have said.


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