# Berger bullets?



## littlebuck (Mar 16, 2008)

If I understand correctly these bullets are made to penetrate about 4 inches then grenade? Is this a good idea for big game that you plan on eating?


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

I feel that is the best way for a bullet to be. If it fragments it will take out multiple organs. I use match BTHP bullets for everything for just that reason. They will do extensive damage inside.


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## littlebuck (Mar 16, 2008)

I understand how the fragments kill. do you see meat damage? another question,, would you use them on big things up north like bears? Thanks for the reply.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't want a bullet that fragments when it hits the animal. A bullet that holds together will deliver more destructive energy as it passes into the body cavity of the animal than one that fragments. Think of it this way. Have somebody throw a egg at you and see how much it hurts. Now have that same person take his fist and slug you in the same spot. Which hurts more and which one leave a bruise behind? Some bullets like the Nosler Ballistic Tip are designed to have rapid expansion which works fine on thin skinned animals such as deer and antelope but they are worthless on a animal the size of an elk. For bigger animals a premium bullet such as the Barnes TSX, or the Nosler Partition work a lot better. As far as the Berger I have never used them so I do not know how they perform.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I'll make this statement knowing that I'll take some heat, but with alot of experience in the group of guys I shoot with. Berger bullets are not a big game hunting bullet. In my experience, bullets with a J4 jacket are simply too unreliable for me to want to shoot at game. I feel that the ballistic tip type bulllets are the minimum in construction for big game use, especially when the game gets bigger than deer. I know that the guys on best of the west shoot elk with them all the time, but I have alot of long range target buddies that jumped on the band wagon and had some really bad experiences with both Berger VLD bullets and Hornaday A-max bullets on game. I watched a friend shoot an antelope in the neck at 250 yds with a 7mm Rem mag shooting a 162 A-max with a J4 jacket. the bullet exploded on the front of the throat and didn't even break the spine with a center hit. Luckily the damage was sufficient that the animal bled out very quickly, but the same performance on a shoulder would have been a problem. I have taken several animals with these bullets, but I discontinued their use after too many surface explosion failures. I think that the best reule of thumb is to use target bullets for targets and hunting bullets for hunting. Just my $.02.-----SS


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

I guess if you trust hunting an animal with a match bullet. Personally, I think it's unethical...if someone put a gun to my head and made me use a Berger for hunting, I would probably pick their actual "Match" bullets opposed to their hunting line, due to it having a thicker jacket. Barnes TTSX / TSX, Nosler Acubond, Speer Trophy Bonded Bear claw...all better HUNTING bullets.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

All of life is a compromise and a lot of times a compromise is the best answer to a problem. And so it is with killing animals. Animals are made up of muscle and bone...hard and soft...the best compromise in a bullet is one that can deal with both muscle and bone. If you knew for sure that you would never encounter bone as the bullet entered the animal's body, a fragmenting bullet would probably work fine... it would slip in and raise havoc with the internal organs, but what if that big shoulder bone happen to get in the way, then what? Clearly, as has been the standard for killing in the past, a bullet that will hold together and mushroom to maximum size WITHOUT passing through the body and taking energy with it is the best compromise in a bullet design. No bullet will kill perfectly every shot or every time but you can increase your odds of a good clean kill by choosing first a caliber that can produce adequate energy and then a bullet that will deliver and then release all of that energy into the animal's body and create as much destruction as it can in the process.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

I knew there would be lots of comments about using match bullets. I have seen a lot of animals run off when hit by heavy, non fragmenting bullets because the bullet went all the way through with doing any damage. I have also seen bullets splash because someone hit a shoulder. The one factor they have in common is someone didnt know how to shoot or didnt care where they hit. I shoot for the neck right behind the head on most everything. If I hit it, it goes down instantly. You have the spine, artery and throat all close together. I have been using them for a lot of years and never lost an animal. Never had to track one either. I use them on coyotes out of my 204 and 223 as well. Drops them in their tracks and makes a mess of their organs.

That is where I was taught to shoot by my dad. I never saw him track or lose an animal either.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

So 8600, just how is it that when you hit them in the neck, right behind the head, that it makes a mess of their organs? Just wonderin.  Another thing, I been hunting probably longer than you even been gulping for air and I can't say I ve actually seen "a lot of animals run off when hit"...actually, when hit with any bullet, yet you've seen lots run off...now you said it...lots...of animals run off after being hit. I am thinking you need to start hunting with a little better grade of hunter.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

BP

I dont recall saying that neck shots make a mess of their organs. I do shoot in the neck on big game. Coyotes in the chest (organs). I have hunted with and know others that shoot for the chest.

If you have been hunting longer than I have been gulping air then you must not move around in the hills very well anymore. I guess since you dont think they perform, that you have actually used them to hunt or are you basing your decision on what you read and the opinions of others?

If you havent seen animals run off then you havent hunted much or been around others that do. Spend some time hunting public ground and you will see plenty of it over the years. As for the group I hunt with, I hunt alone most times now unless my wife goes with me after coyotes. I have how ever seen a lot of other hunters in the field shoot and seen them track animals. Granted, most were from bad shots but have seen plenty of chest shots not go down. I know quite a few people that use match bullets. They do perform just fine as a varmint or big game bullet if you know how to shoot.

The discussion of bullet types is the same as the disussion of calibers. Everyone is going to have their own opinion and own resuts. There are those that will tell you that you need to use a 30 caliber minimum to shoot elk also. Do you believe that?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I will have to admit that of all the deer/elk that I have shot in the last 50 years with pass through shots have either dropped in the spot or ran a short distance and I have never lost an animal with a pass through shot. I have however see a lot of deer running around with their lower jaws flapping in the wind when somebody tried a head or neck shot. I will say that most of them were in the late 60's and 70's.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

I have also seen a lot of them running around with three legs or legs flopping in the air. Also seen a lot of gut shot or butt shot deer and nobody can blame any of it on bullet selection. It is nothing more than shooter error.


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## Roperlt (Dec 6, 2010)

I have used Berger VLD bullets exclusively for 4 years. I have loads worked up for my .264 Win Mag w/ 140 gr. and my .300 Win Mag w/ 175 gr. both loads shoot sum moa groups on paper. I've taken mule deer, whitetail deer and I don't know how many hogs w/ my .264, 3 mature bull elk and my black bear w/ my .300. All were one shot, no tracking...The secret IMHO is shot placement and having the confidence in your rifle to put the bullet where it will do the most damage. Everybody has an opinion and experience with different bullets. My experience with Berger has been great and I have nothing but good to say about them...Just my .02 on the subject...
Later, L.T.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

Shot placement is the key, but what happens when you don't make the perfect shot? Wouldn't you rather have a bullet that is a little more forgiving?

Sorry, but I sincerely hate the way they pimp the long-range hunting scene. Everyone with a 300 Mag and a box of VLDs is now completely competent and able to make 900yd shots on a consistent basis. 

These bullets function windows are designed for the long-range shooting...what happens when you don't make the "perfect shot" in close range (200yds and within)?


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

gwailow said:


> what happens when you don't make the "perfect shot" in close range (200yds and within)?


If you can't make the "perfect shot" within 200 yds you should not be in the field hunting. :O•-:

The best answer has already been said several times:

Shoot what you shoot the best with and gives you the most confidence.

Some prefer a better patterning round to ensure the bullet goes where they want it, while others opt for the "forgiving" round. Neither is right, neither is wrong. They both work. Just put it where it counts and enjoy the hunt.


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