# Interpretation of the law question



## Sako (Oct 30, 2007)

Help me out here. I have a 2 year old boy who LOVES to crank on the reel, but he can't cast yet. I live in Cache Valley and would like to take him fishing at this pond that is only for children under 14 and people with disabilities. Legally, can I cast the line out for him and then hand over the rod to him, and let him set the hook and reel it in? Or am I really pushing it by even casting for him? 

And while we're on the topic, can you even bait the hook for a person under 14 fishing there? Where do you draw the line as being the person fishing and the adult supervising the little fisherman?

Thanks for you advice.

By the way - he caught his first rainbow last night - a little 9" long beauty! No camera unfortunately!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Sako said:


> t this pond that is only for children under 14 and people with disabilities. Legally, can I cast the line out for him and then hand over the rod to him...


What pond is this? Who's enforcing this rule? The DWR cannot set laws like this (can they?). Age discrimination laws would prohibit this. Enforcing this rule would be a nightmare, as most kids under 16 do not have any type of identification proving their age.

The simple answer is that you should not have any fear at all of helping your son fish.


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## Crawdads Revenge (May 31, 2008)

I remember a long while back someone on here took his kid fishing at Vivian and took over when his kid hooked a big fish. I think that's taking it too far, but if all you're doing is casting it out then I can't imagine anyone having a problem with it. Though if you want extra insurance you could just have him "help" you make short casts.

Also I'm pretty sure baiting and setting up the tackle is no problem.


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## Crawdads Revenge (May 31, 2008)

PBH said:


> Sako said:
> 
> 
> > t this pond that is only for children under 14 and people with disabilities. Legally, can I cast the line out for him and then hand over the rod to him...
> ...


It's true. Vivian is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but I know there are others.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

One of the Spanish Fork community ponds (I think it's Canyon View Park Pond) is also posted as under 14 or handicapped.

(edit)

While we're at it, anyone know about the Utah State Hospital pond? It has appeared on the stocking list. Pity if it's only for the residents.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

Sklyers pound or west willow as some call it. West willow is a community pond here is the reg. It is enforeced as I have seen them ticket many people there. I do not think they would ticket you for helping as long as it was clear that is what you are doing.

Directions: Take US 89 to Park Ave.
and go north to Golf Course Rd. Go east
to 500 W. and turn north to 700 S. Go
east to park.
Daily bag & possession limit:
Each person may catch four fish.
Rules: Open to fishing for children
under 14 and to those with disabilities.
Extras: Picnic tables in park, restrooms
and fishing pier
Handicap access: Yes 
City: Logan
Size: 1 acre
Likely catch: Rainbow trout,
largemouth bass, bluegill, green
sunfish and channel catfish
Hours: Pond is open during park
hours.

FYI a small list of 14 and under ponds
Mayors
Skylers
Fort buenavture(or how ever you spell it) that is 13 and under
Vivan
Canyon view


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

What if the "disability" is an inability to catch fish? Does that count?

Just kidding, but some may argue...:wink:


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## handsomefish (Nov 14, 2007)

Under the letter of the the law that is illeagle, But there is also the spirit of the law, where as your son is only two years old a certain amount of help is going to me needed I don't believe there is a fish cop in the state that would ticket you for casting for your son as long as you hand it right back
As far as baitng a hook, say you have a 14 year old daughter you could bait the hook for her as long as you don't cast it out 
Just baiting a hook does'nt mean your fishing untill you put it in the water


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## Sako (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks for the comments. Makes me feel more confident in what I'm doing.

There is a list of community fishing ponds like Skyler's pond here:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/cf/


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

You won't have a problem if you do:
-bait the hook
-Cast it for him
-Unhook the fish for him

You will have a problem if you do:
-"Watch" his pole while he goes and plays on the playground
-Have your own pole sitting by you.
-Keep fishing for him after he loses interest

I've fished the designated ponds many times with my kids. A rule I follow is I NEVER bring my pole. And my son has a Batman pole, my daughters have barbie and tweetie. I tell them that if they want to do something else like play or run around, they reel in and put the pole on the ground. I bait their hooks for them and will cast out. But after that it is up to them. 

I have gotten very frustrated at several youth ponds to see men in their 30something and not a kid in sight, taking a stringer full of fish.


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## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

PBH said:


> Sako said:
> 
> 
> > t this pond that is only for children under 14 and people with disabilities. Legally, can I cast the line out for him and then hand over the rod to him...
> ...


Actually all kids age 12 and over must now have a fishing licence. It is $5 until age 14 when it goes to regular price, so kids age 12 to 14 will have identification or risk a ticket for no licence.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

+1 Gary


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

That's interesting. I actually learned something new today!

There is a Community Fisheries brochure (for those who didn't already know this): http://wildlife.utah.gov/cf/2008_book.pdf

It specifically states on many of the fisheries "Open to fishing for children under 14...". I think that's great. I am still curious, however, how this works. I know that a number of years ago the Iron County Sheriff attempted to post some signs at Kid's Pond (up Cedar Canyon) limiting access to only those under 14 (or maybe even 12). They had to remove the signs and replace them with new signs stating "Kid's Pond is traditionally reserved for kids under the age of 14...". Legally, they could not prevent adults from fishing the pond. Also, at a fishery in southern Utah there are some proposed regulation changes. A committee has been working on some possible changes, and 1 of the alternatives was an age limit -- which was then dropped due to age discrimination laws.

So, can anyone tell me the difference between some of the community fisheries vs. other public waters and age restrictions?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

It really depends on who owns and manages the pond. Many of the community fisheries are owned by the county or city, and some by the state. Some are privately owned, with public access easements. The owners may put whatever restrictions on them that they want, as long as those are approved by the Wildlife board. The pond at Wasatch Mountain State Park/Golf course is for 12 and under - state owned. I know many of the city-owned ponds have fences and gates and are closed at times. 

In all reality, there really is no difference between community fisheries and other waters with certain restrictions - other than marketing. As I understand it, demand is high for fishing waters close to home - so many waters get promoted as such, and some are built for that specific reason.


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## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

The big differance comes in the way laws them selves are set up.

There are 3 levels of regulation, Statue, Rules and Policy.
Statues must conform to the Constitution and are the most powerful regulation.

Rules are put in place by authorities but are not statue and do not have to conform to the Constitution. They are well established, you can be cited and fined for breaking them, but are not as powerful as statue.

Policies are much looser and are sometimes not even written but are more of an accepted way of doing things. They have little bite and most you cannot even be cited for breaking.

Rules are what is in place on the ponds that do not allow fishing over the age of 14, they are not statue and are not subject to the Constitution, there fore age discrimination laws (statue) do not apply.


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## flydaddy834 (Sep 11, 2007)

there use to be one in brigham, i never seen it or anything but there was one up there a few years ago. i dont know the name either but i know i have heard people talk about one up there. does anyone else remember this. cool question though.

steed pond should be one of these places.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Troll said:


> Policies are much looser and are sometimes not even written but are more of an accepted way of doing things. They have little bite and most you cannot even be cited for breaking.


So an adult can't get a ticket for breaking the rules at Vivian.

(No, I'm not really plotting to break those rules. :lol: Just clarifying.)


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

Troll said:


> The big differance comes in the way laws them selves are set up.
> 
> There are 3 levels of regulation, Statue, Rules and Policy.
> Statues must conform to the Constitution and are the most powerful regulation.
> ...





LOAH said:


> So an adult can't get a ticket for breaking the *rules at Vivian.*
> 
> (No, I'm not really plotting to break those rules. Just clarifying.)


Yes, you can be ticketed. I have seen some people be kindly asked to not fish there anymore and not ticketed, but if asked more than once-I'm sure that trouble would be coming...

Also, you asked about the pond at the Utah State Hospital...it is for residents only, and these residents must have licenses to fish it, but most don't get licenses and few have poles and tackle, some don't have privileges-so it doesn't really get fished-unfortunate, I think in the future I will personally work with them to promote it more and help them, but for now school and work are too limiting. BTW-you are not missing much, it's a very small pond and the fish are pretty much all SNITs even despite the none fishing.


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## handsomefish (Nov 14, 2007)

flydaddy834 said:


> there use to be one in brigham, i never seen it or anything but there was one up there a few years ago. i dont know the name either but i know i have heard people talk about one up there. does anyone else remember this. cool question though.
> 
> steed pond should be one of these places.


That would be mayors pond


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks, Repeter.

How did I misread that? I guess I may be justified in fishing that hospital pond afterall. *\-\*


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## Sako (Oct 30, 2007)

I've been by the pond the last two evenings with my son and I've seen two adults fishing there with their sons - each had a pole. Neither adult male appeared to be disabled, but who knows....

It's a little annoying. Should I call the poaching hotline for that or approach them or what?


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## REPETER (Oct 3, 2007)

LOAH said:


> Thanks, Repeter.
> 
> How did I misread that? I guess I may be justified in fishing that hospital pond afterall. *\-\*


Really if you went up there, you would probably just be kindly asked to leave-but I don't know that anyone would really even harass you. Just be aware of your surroundings, other people in the area will probably be patients, and don't leave a way for them to steal your car...but probably more than anything maybe more hassle than it's worth. :?


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