# Winter 2018-19



## #1DEER 1-I

Well so far, it looks like snowpack is getting off to a quick start this winter and piling up much earlier and better than last season. Great for our water supplies, we’ll have to see what it does to big game in the coming months.


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## DallanC

I'm really really worried about the fat reserves on the critters. 2/3 of the deer we killed had no fat to speak of. The other had a little. Other successful hunters said the same thing, including a few who posted here.

On my trailcam into Sept I could see ribs and hipbones on a huge percentage of cow elk and calves. 

I think the fall was just so dry what food there was didnt have the nutrients it normally does and critters just didnt build up fat. Hopefully we get one of those winters where we get a big storm then a couple weeks to melt it back on the winter feeding grounds before the next storm hits. Give the critters a fighting chance at least.


-DallanC


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## #1DEER 1-I

DallanC said:


> I'm really really worried about the fat reserves on the critters. 2/3 of the deer we killed had no fat to speak of. The other had a little. Other successful hunters said the same thing, including a few who posted here.
> 
> On my trailcam into Sept I could see ribs and hipbones on a huge percentage of cow elk and calves.
> 
> I think the fall was just so dry what food there was didnt have the nutrients it normally does and critters just didnt build up fat. Hopefully we get one of those winters where we get a big storm then a couple weeks to melt it back on the winter feeding grounds before the next storm hits. Give the critters a fighting chance at least.
> 
> -DallanC


Agreed, there's a possibility it could get bad if there's no let up, not much to think about yet, but it has certainly started early. Most the deer I saw seemed to have okay fat reserves. As for elk, it will take a lot to kill an elk, most the elk I saw killed and have seen, were in pretty good shape. This was the real drawback to such a mild winter last year. There was simply no moisture and the rain just didn't come, now if this winter is a heavy one (which we also need) it could certainly hurt wildlife, especially deer numbers. Very early for sure though to know what to expect, but all except the south-eastern corner of the state sat at over 100% snowpack without this past 24 hour period.


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## Fowlmouth

No fat whatsoever on the deer my daughter got during the muzzy hunt.


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## 2full

My deer didn't have as much fat on the back straps or hindquarters as usual, not bad internal fat. 
My elk looked pretty good.


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## wyogoob

There's 10" to 12" of hard icy snow in Evanston now so the deer in town have quit feeding in the vegetable and flower gardens and are relying on expensive and irreplaceable trees and ornamental shrubs. More n more city-slickers are wrapping their trees n shrubs with wire fencing. The future of our deer herd, about 200 deer within the city limits, looks dim. 

Uh...we have no deer in the country anymore.


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## Kevin D

A perfect storm of 3 conditions resulting in massive deer die off would be a long dry summer where the animals aren't able to build up enough fat reserves, followed by a winter of heavy snowfall, coinciding with long periods of extremely cold temperatures. If all three combine in the same season, you can expect a major population crash. So far, we have one of the conditions. We'll see how the rest of the winter plays out.


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## Kwalk3

My buck, as well as the 4 others our group packed out this year all had an inch and a half of fat everywhere. Seemed plenty healthy. Different areas, it sounds like, were not so lucky.


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## Catherder

I'm sure hoping for the best, but with several consecutive years of mild winters and increasing deer populations, we are due for a population "correction". It's just an inevitable result of a natural cycle in the ecosystem.

If it occurs this year, I'll be curious if the same entities that are so eager to pat themselves on the back for the high deer numbers will also take "responsibility" for the die off as well.


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## #1DEER 1-I

Well it’s really cold now. Not a lot of snow around where I’m at on the benches though. Looks like the bitter cold will only last a few days for now and should improve by the end of the week. Seeing rain in the forecast now and upper 30’s to lower 40’s temps. Could be bad if we see another hard freeze or real cold spell if some snow doesn’t melt exposing the ground. Could add a very hard layer of ice if things get cold from here and the snow doesn’t melt in some places.


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## Vanilla

1-Eye,

Isn't all this kind of what we just call "winter" here in Utah? I mean, this wouldn't be the first winter we had a hard freeze after wet snow fall. And it certainly won't be the last. 

I'm not trying to trivialize the difficulty the animals face with this, but none of this is new. 

Some winters are mild, some are average, and some are extreme. Some animals survive, some don't. We hope as many as can survive do, but I don't get the micro-analyzing of every storm and weather pattern that comes through??? 

I'm hoping for a mild temps, high water content winter myself to help out with the drought, but not kill off too many animals. But Utah winters are generally pretty harsh, and these animals have made it through them before.


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## Vanilla

This screenshot is as of 2:00pm on 1/18/19. 

This is such good news so far! Keep the moisture coming. The animals might actually have feed to eat next year. (fingers crossed)


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## CPAjeff

Vanilla - thanks for the map!

Hopefully the moisture will continue well into the summer. That would ensure the antler growth on the San Juan to be exceptional this year - for when I draw the SJ expo tag. 

I forget, is that a right or left nut thing to say?!


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## sheepassassin

I enjoy reading these threads every year. No matter what the conditions are, it’s never good enough for some guys. One year they are crying that there’s no snow, the next year they are crying that there’s too much snow, the year after that, there’s a decent amount of snow but it’s too cold. Life must be miserable for those people. Can’t see the good in anything


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## 3arabians

sheepassassin said:


> I enjoy reading these threads every year. No matter what the conditions are, it's never good enough for some guys. One year they are crying that there's no snow, the next year they are crying that there's too much snow, the year after that, there's a decent amount of snow but it's too cold. Life must be miserable for those people. Can't see the good in anything


Haha. Same here. This year does seems great so far though. But look out if we get a cold snap because everything will die!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## derekp1999

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Not a lot of snow around where I'm at on the benches...
> 
> Could be bad if we see another hard freeze or real cold spell if some snow doesn't melt exposing the ground. Could add a very hard layer of ice if things get cold from here and the snow doesn't melt in some places.


I'm confused... if there's not a lot of snow on the ground why do we need more to melt to expose the ground?


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## #1DEER 1-I

derekp1999 said:


> I'm confused... if there's not a lot of snow on the ground why do we need more to melt to expose the ground?


"In some places"


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## #1DEER 1-I

Vanilla said:


> 1-Eye,
> 
> Isn't all this kind of what we just call "winter" here in Utah? I mean, this wouldn't be the first winter we had a hard freeze after wet snow fall. And it certainly won't be the last.
> 
> I'm not trying to trivialize the difficulty the animals face with this, but none of this is new.
> 
> Some winters are mild, some are average, and some are extreme. Some animals survive, some don't. We hope as many as can survive do, but I don't get the micro-analyzing of every storm and weather pattern that comes through???
> 
> I'm hoping for a mild temps, high water content winter myself to help out with the drought, but not kill off too many animals. But Utah winters are generally pretty harsh, and these animals have made it through them before.


Yes, obviously. But there are more/less harsh conditions. If it snows deep,then rains, and you hit a cold spell making it very difficult for animals to dig through that snow due to it being extremely crusty, it can be very hard on them. Combination of conditions matter. Yes winters happen, not all winters are created equal. This one has probably been about right so far, it would be nice to continue getting moisture without hitting a bad cold snap from here.


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## Vanilla

So when you say that not all winters are created equal, is that like saying some are mild, some are average, and some are extreme?

I wonder where I heard that before??? 

Bring on the mouisture! Give me a wet summer to follow. CPAJeff needs to kill a giant San Juan bull this year.


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## Kevin D

Winter weather is one of the greatest factors in predicting game populations for the upcoming hunts, that's why it's worth monitoring. Not all of us are 'half empty' type of guys, but you got to call it as you see it. As a houndsman I spend a considerable amount of time every season on the winter range, I've also done it enough years that I have a longitudinal perspective on current conditions. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I do know how the winter is shaping up here in northern Utah, but I also like to hear what is happening across the rest of the state. I don't see threads such as this as a bitch-fest, but as information you can use in preparing for next years hunts. I appreciate the feed back offered.


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## Lone_Hunter

I was just up in my local mountains yesterday. Four miles in from the highway, where nobody had run their snowmobiles, nor hiked in, and the snow was untouched; my guesstimate was there was about a foot and a half of snow on the forest road, at 6,600ish feet elevation.


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## PBH

sheepassassin said:


> I enjoy reading these threads every year. No matter what the conditions are, it's never good enough for some guys.


You could probably count me in that category of "it's never good enough". You can thank my dad for that.

I watch the snotel site pretty closely this time of year. But it has nothing to do ungulates. My old man says that "fish like water". I believe it.

The Beaver River drainage is currently showing 109% of normal. That's good....just barely. In order for Minersville Reservoir to fill, it usually takes about 110% of normal. And that's not even a guarantee. Much of it depends on timing of when it all melts. A slow release of that water from snowmelt won't do it. That water will get diverted and moved long before it ever reaches the reservoir. But if it all comes at once in a quick rush -- they can't divert it fast enough. So I say: bring on some flooding! (sorry Beaver).

Als0 -- 89% on the Escalante is definitely not where we want to be. Especially with Lake Powell suffering the way it is. I'd love to see the east side of the state all in the blue. Yellow and green aren't going to do it.

Hopefully all the build-up and expectations of this storm prove fruitful. Let it snow. Fish like water.


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> You could probably count me in that category of "it's never good enough". You can thank my dad for that.
> 
> I watch the snotel site pretty closely this time of year. But it has nothing to do ungulates. My old man says that "fish like water". I believe it.
> 
> The Beaver River drainage is currently showing 109% of normal. That's good....just barely. In order for Minersville Reservoir to fill, it usually takes about 110% of normal. And that's not even a guarantee. Much of it depends on timing of when it all melts. A slow release of that water from snowmelt won't do it. That water will get diverted and moved long before it ever reaches the reservoir. But if it all comes at once in a quick rush -- they can't divert it fast enough. So I say: bring on some flooding! (sorry Beaver).
> 
> Als0 -- 89% on the Escalante is definitely not where we want to be. Especially with Lake Powell suffering the way it is. I'd love to see the east side of the state all in the blue. Yellow and green aren't going to do it.
> 
> Hopefully all the build-up and expectations of this storm prove fruitful. Let it snow. Fish like water.


Agreed!

And it is worth pointing out that when I was down there last week, then animals didn't look in too bad of shape either. (fingers crossed)


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## DallanC

PBH said:


> But if it all comes at once in a quick rush -- they can't divert it fast enough. So I say: bring on some flooding! (sorry Beaver).


Hells no. I've fished Minersville after a big flood and the silt killed a huge percentage of fish. This was late 1980s.

-DallanC


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## 2full

Nice storm today !!
Had 8" of heavy wet snow at my house when I got home from work. 
Was really glad I bought a new snow blower this year. :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla

https://www.ksl.com/?nid=978

It's still early in the year, and things could go south quickly without continued and consistent storms, but I'm loving these numbers.

129% currently for your San Juan expo tag, CPAJeff!

PBH, Beaver River broke your magic 110% threshold. Let me know when you're going to show me the ropes at Minersville.


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## PBH

Let's check it again next week. No storms on the forecast (so. ut) for over a week....


I'm ready when you are 'Nilla.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> Let's check it again next week. No storms on the forecast (so. ut) for over a week....
> 
> I'm ready when you are 'Nilla.


Oh, I'll be checking next week. 1-eye has me so excited about the weather, I check this like 4 times a day!

I've hit Minersville a handful of times over the years, but have never done great there. That, of course, could be that I suck at fishing.


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## Vanilla

Well, Phil didn’t see his shadow and we’ve dropped below 110% on the Beav. 

We’re screwed.


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## 2full

We aren't screwed at all if we get even close to what the TV guys are saying is on the way thru wed/thurs.
Suppose to be a big moisture dropper.


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## Vanilla

2full- this storm really did its job all around the state! Check out the snowpack this morning.


#TOTP


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## PBH

We're looking OK right now. Just keep it coming!


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## 2full

Great storm !!
Midway and Kolob are were both showing 30" of fresh snow from this one yesterday on SNOTEL. I'm sure it will settle some. Will take it.
I'm not going on the snow machines for a few days...… Way too much powder for an old man like me. But, I would like to get up to the cabin and shovel the deck off.


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## PBH

2full said:


> G
> I'm not going on the snow machines for a few days...&#8230; Way too much powder for an old man like me. But, I would like to get up to the cabin and shovel the deck off.


you'd have to unload the sled at the mouth of Cedar Canyon. SR14 is closed on both ends (Cedar / 89) with no timetable on when they'll get it open. The traffic camera does show this morning that they must have got a plow through (one lane?) - but it's still closed to traffic.

SR143 isn't even visible on the camera. It just looks like a pretty white meadow where the road should be...


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## 2full

I know the Hwy 14 road is closed just above Milt's. Would unload right there at the bridge going up right hand. Love it when we can unload there. means that its a good snow year, and it's a good ride to our place from there. Much better than going up the face road and unloading.


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## colorcountrygunner

Looks like PBH will have some happy fish this year. I always love when winter gives way to spring, but in recent years I haven't been as happy about it because I knew winter didn't do it's job and was going to leave us with sub-optimal conditions for the following seasons. This year I will be able to fully enjoy spring knowing that winter came and kicked some arse.


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## colorcountrygunner

After a few warm days in a row it's back down to snowing. It has been snowing/raining aaaaalllll day in Spanish Fork today.


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## Vanilla

I’m just disappointed 1eye hasn’t come and analyzed every single storm. He’s slippin.


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## johnnycake

Remind me where we are at again: are we still convinced all the animals are going to burn up and die or have we reached the point yet where they a are all going to freeze and starve to death?


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## High Desert Elk

Vanilla said:


> Bring on the mouisture! Give me a wet summer to follow. CPAJeff needs to kill a giant San Juan bull this year.


Blue Mtn (aka Abajo, aka San juan Unit) is looking good this year, 5' at Camp Jackson the other day when I looked, that elevation is "mid-mountain".

Should be lush and green with lots of groceries for the elkses to munch on, follow that with a wet summer and they'll be fat and sassy come Sept!


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## Vanilla

johnnycake said:


> Remind me where we are at again: are we still convinced all the animals are going to burn up and die or have we reached the point yet where they a are all going to freeze and starve to death?


I think they're going to drown in the fire drought lush green forest.

top


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## colorcountrygunner

All jokes aside, I'm just really happy to see it snowing again. I'm sure looking forward to spending a summer scouting for a limited entry elk tag in some verdant mountains filled to the brim with water!


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## colorcountrygunner

Oh, and did I mention the sky is snowing its balls off again today?


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## PBH

PBH said:


> The Beaver River drainage is currently showing 109% of normal. That's good....just barely. In order for Minersville Reservoir to fill, it usually takes about 110% of normal.


(Yes. I just quoted myself. It makes me feel good.)

rain, rain, rain. And more rain. Keep it coming!

Based on Mountain Data from NRCS SNOTEL Sites
As of WEDNESDAY: MARCH 6 , 2019

BEAVER RIVER Basin: 141% Median SWE / 146% AVG Total Precip 
Upper Sevier River Basin: 146% Median SWE / 133% Avg Total Precip
Escalante River: 123% Median SWE / 124% Avg Total Precip
Dirty Devil: 128% Median SWE / 133% Avg Total Precip
Southwest Utah: 163% Median SWE / 131% Avg Total Precip


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## Vanilla

PBH is taking me to Minersville. Wooooohooooooo!


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## Kevin D

SNOTEL says Bear River drainage at 114% of normal, but most of their measuring sites are well above the winter range so that gives only a partial picture of how the big game herds are actually faring. Deer and elk are wintering fairly well on the cache and ogden units where I spend my time chasing lions. There is still a good amount of snow at mid level but temperatures have been fairly mild. So far, I'm seeing a less than average winter kill despite the above average moisture, so I'm predicting a good population of critters come this fall on these units.


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## wyogoob

Kevin D said:


> SNOTEL says Bear River drainage at 114% of normal, but most of their measuring sites are well above the winter range so that gives only a partial picture of how the big game herds are actually faring. Deer and elk are wintering fairly well on the cache and ogden units where I spend my time chasing lions. There is still a good amount of snow at mid level but temperatures have been fairly mild. So far, I'm seeing a less than average winter kill despite the above average moisture, so I'm predicting a good population of critters come this fall on these units.


Many of the Utah deer on the Bear River drainage winter around, even in, Evanston. They look pretty good in spite of the deep snow, but they have a long way to go and April is normally the roughest time for them here.

A number of elk (20+) are living in the Bear River State Park here. We found a dead calf last week while hiking in the park.

My yard, part of the Bear River Drainage Mule Deer Winter Feedgrounds, has so much snow in it the deer quit jumping the fence to feed on crabapples.

Here is a picture of winter feed grounds in Evanston:

3 more months until Spring!!!!


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> PBH is taking me to Minersville. Wooooohooooooo!


'

Another 11 inches of snow at Big Flat yesterday. Merchant Valley found 7 inches.
The Beaver River near Beaver went from ~14 CFS to over 30 CFS yesterday (back to normal today). Hopefully, that water is making it to the reservoir.

More storms next week.

What I'm thinking is: Me and 'Nilla riding our pontoons over the spillway! ('nilla first. we'll so how that goes...)


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## wyoming2utah

wyogoob said:


> 3 more months until Spring!!!!


This is why I left Wyoming...it was always 3 months until spring or 6 months until summer. Even worse, it was a geographical oddity...two weeks from eveywhere!


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## Kevin D

My dad was born and raised in Star Valley Wyoming, he always described the climate there as "8 months of winter and 4 months of rough sleddin'....."


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## bowgy

Finally got to the cabin to see if it was still there or if the deck survived. Duck Creek area.

Anyone want to take a Young Men's Group up? Room and board, (I'll do all the cookiin), just have to shovel a 10' by 46' area of deck.;-)


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## bowgy

Oh yeah, the deck is also 7 foot deep in compressed snow, probably equivalent to 10+ feet. But as you can see in the second pic, I have a good start on it.


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## 2full

Bowgy, does your cabin have a South face ?? 
I sure hope my deck over by Miner's peak doesn't look like that. :shock:
Haven't been up to mine since December. I don't like to snowmobile in as much snow as this year. 
Mine has a direct South face, on a south face hill. Have never had that much snow on mine. 
I put railing on the deck a couple of years ago and have noticed it doesn't melt off as well. 
Going up Sunday for a look. Hopefully I can get thru the sheep lane without getting buried. 
I'm quite nervous. There is a whole bunch of snow.


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## bowgy

2full said:


> Bowgy, does your cabin have a South face ??
> I sure hope my deck over by Miner's peak doesn't look like that. :shock:
> Haven't been up to mine since December. I don't like to snowmobile in as much snow as this year.
> Mine has a direct South face, on a south face hill. Have never had that much snow on mine.
> I put railing on the deck a couple of years ago and have noticed it doesn't melt off as well.
> Going up Sunday for a look. Hopefully I can get thru the sheep lane without getting buried.
> I'm quite nervous. There is a whole bunch of snow.


Sorry, I didn't see this until today, how did your cabin look?

Mine is north facing.


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## 2full

Was a great ride. Snow had a good crust on it, so we could go wherever we wanted. 
There is a LOT of snow. Had to dig down to the back door to get in. 
8' plus behind the cabin and prob the same out front of it. 
There is 4 steps up into the backdoor and 6 steps up on to the deck. The breaker box I usually stand on the back of a 4 wheeler to get access to it. 
Was a very good day. 
It is going to be a while till we get into the place on wheels.


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## bowgy

2full said:


> Was a great ride. Snow had a good crust on it, so we could go wherever we wanted.
> There is a LOT of snow. Had to dig down to the back door to get in.
> 8' plus behind the cabin and prob the same out front of it.
> There is 4 steps up into the backdoor and 6 steps up on to the deck. The breaker box I usually stand on the back of a 4 wheeler to get access to it.
> Was a very good day.
> It is going to be a while till we get into the place on wheels.


Glad to see a lot of snow on the mountain.

Do you get any leakage through your doors when the snow melts? My main door is under the covered portion of the deck and the basement door is under the deck that has all the snow on it. There was no snow against the basement door but there was a few inches blown against the door under the covered deck but I shoveled that away.


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## bowgy

This is looking out my basement door.


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## DallanC

2full said:


> Was a great ride. Snow had a good crust on it, so we could go wherever we wanted.
> There is a LOT of snow. Had to dig down to the back door to get in.
> 8' plus behind the cabin and prob the same out front of it.
> There is 4 steps up into the backdoor and 6 steps up on to the deck. The breaker box I usually stand on the back of a 4 wheeler to get access to it.
> Was a very good day.
> It is going to be a while till we get into the place on wheels.


Wow... rock'n the old PhazerII's! Good for you. I've owned 6 of those over the years. That one looks to be in nice shape still. It gets crazy when those steering knuckles loosen up and steering gets sloppy at full throttle.

New Snowmobiles are among the biggest wastes of money IMO, lol. 16k for a machine you use maybe 2-3 months out of the year, and by the next year they depreciate $5k.

We still use 2002 RMKs... good machines, go everywhere I want to go. I do wish they had EFI for easier starting, but not worth the $$$ to upgrade.

Never even got them out of the shed this year. Apparently I'm getting old...

-DallanC


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## 2full

I don't have much problem of the doors leaking since I put a screen door on the south face. 
Used to leak a little bit when the big rainstorms would come in from the south. The screen door solved that. The north (back) door has never been a problem. I've never had snow up onto the front windows till this year. This is the first year since I put the railings up that the snow has been deep on the deck.


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## 2full

The 'ol Phaser has been a great machine. Its a 95 I bought in 97 for $1,000. Has been a great snow machine for sure. It just runs and runs. I put new plugs in it every few years is all I've really had to do to it. I did have the carbs rebuilt about 5 years ago. It is about time for new plugs again, it has been taking 3 or 4 pulls to start instead of the usual 1 or 2. 
It has a great power to weight ratio, gets good gas milage, and it light enough that I can move it around if I get stuck. It does not owe me anything. 
I agree 1000% that it's not worth spending huge $$ for the new machines. 

The RMK's are very good machines. I know 2 or 3 guys that ride the older ones. The are just a reliable as the Phazer's with better performance. IF I was to buy another machine that is what I would look for. 

The guy I ride with literally burned his up 2 years ago. It caught fire and burned down to the bones. 
When he bought a new one I told him not to spend a lot of money, because when the Phaser dies I'm not buying another one. I'm almost 63, and it's about time to be done. Plus, I've been around a couple of guys with Trax on the 4 wheeler. I think that is the way to go. 

I love riding......but I hate getting stuck. :mrgreen:


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## DallanC

2full said:


> Plus, I've been around a couple of guys with Trax on the 4 wheeler. I think that is the way to go.


My "old retired guy" winter plan is probably a Honda Pioneer with a track kit. Room for the wife and grandkids plus ice fishing gear in the back.



> I love riding......but I hate getting stuck. :mrgreen:


Years ago I saw a smart guy who took a old 1950s Volkswagen "Bilstein" pole jack, replaced out the short pole with a 6ft Aluminum rod (original is 20mm, but 3/4" does work). It jacks itself all the way up the length of the rod. Works like those $350 snow jacks. I've built two now, aluminum rod costs $20 at Palmers Metal mart, you can pick up a jack off ebay for $10 if you are patient. I then bought two 4x12x.25" pieces of aluminum for the foot. It works great when we get stuck. I stick one end of the rod along the tunnel and duck tape the rear of the rod to the grab handle when riding. NO MORE LIFTING STUCK SLEDS BY HAND

-DallanC


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## PBH

My goodness.


Beaver River drainage is now at 160%
Upper Sevier is at 154%
Escalante is at 133%
Dirty Devil is at 133%
Southwest Utah is at 177%

These numbers are all from this morning - AND IT'S SNOWING LIKE CRAZY OUTSIDE! So these numbers will all increase again tomorrow.

this is crazy. At some point, we're all going to switch from being excited, to being worried about where all the water is going to go....

Oh well. Fish like water.


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## bowgy

My driveway this morning, 5 inches and still snowing, supposed to snow all day, the bad part is the north wind is supposed to blow too.


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## 2full

I had 6" at 8 this am. And I've shoveled another inch or two again since then. 
Midway and Kolob are both showing over 100" on the Snotel site. 
Like PBH said, this could get interesting..........


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## Kevin D

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/black-bears-impacted-by-weather-pattern/1847070753

I have a good friend that works for the division and asked if I wanted to go with them Tuesday to check on a bear den. Uhh, Ya! I got recruited to giving the reporter a ride up to top of the trail on my snowmobile and with the rutted trail up only dumped her about 6 times. That's me in the high vis green coat and the Yamaha snowmobile. Somehow though, all the shots showing my face ended up on the cutting room floor :noidea:

Bottom line is that the collared sow should have had cubs, she would have booted off her last set of cubs and gave birth to a new set over the winter, but she didn't. The biologists there suspect the reason was last summers long dry spell where the sow couldn't put on enough fat reserves to successfully reproduce. Just another reminder on how weather patterns play such a crucial role in the health of our wildlife populations.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> At some point, we're all going to switch from being excited, to being worried about where all the water is going to go....


I thought you said you wanted flooding before?


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## PBH

I flip flop. somedays I'd like to see St. George wash right down the Virgin. Other days I'm nicer, and enjoy seeing my tax dollars spent to shore up tamarisk riparian neighborhoods.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> I flip flop. somedays I'd like to see St. George wash right down the Virgin. Other days I'm nicer, and enjoy seeing my tax dollars spent to shore up tamarisk riparian neighborhoods.


This made me el oh el!


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## backcountry

The Virgin River needs a good scouring. Plus, the Narrows being closed for more than a month might tamp down the absurd Zion visitation numbers. 

Granted, I really don't want to see a rain on snow event test the Coal Creek flood mitigation systems. Would just assume never see that 100 year flood.

Seeing these snow and sweet numbers linger into spring is wild. Happening in CO too. The peak date and numbers will be intriguing this season.


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## Vanilla

I thought it was interesting how our winter progressed this year.


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## 3arabians

https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/2375-deer-survival-is-good-statewide.html

The perfect storm?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla

A crap ton of moisture with a very high survival rate? I’ll take it!


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## johnnycake

I knew I should have made LT put the collateral for his bet with me in an escrow account!


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## PBH

OK, so....this is starting to get a little crazy!!

In the last week (5/13 - 5/20) the snowpack on Cedar Mountain has _increased_ by 4 inches! I fully expect a whole bunch more by the end of the week. Southwest Utah is still sitting at 146% of average.

146% of average -- and Otter Creek, Panguitch, Minersville, New Castle, Piute, and I'm sure many more reservoirs are already full. Lot's more water yet to come down in the coming weeks.

I think we can probably stop praying for more moisture at this point - at least for a week or so.


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## DallanC

PBH said:


> OK, so....this is starting to get a little crazy!!


Tell me about it! Holy smokes we were preparing for the yearly get together on the Boulder for Memorial day. Wifes cousin took a drive over to check things and texted these picts friday near Fish Lake. They turned around and didnt bother to go any further south.

F'ing crazy. 3-4ft of snow, fresh snow on the road and 26 degrees... on May 17th.



















Weekend forecast is high's in the low 60s... low in the high 30s.

We need some dry, warm weather in the near future as we near fawning time.

-DallanC


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## Catherder

Welp, the snowpack is really good news for all the fishing I get to do this fall since I went 0-fer on hunting tags. 8)

Lets hope the prolonged cool weather doesn't mess up fawning though.


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## Vanilla

This has been a pretty amazing year. Amazing the amount of moisture we’ve received, yes. But how it was received is even more amazing. To this point we haven’t had widespread flooding or widespread winter kill yet we’re basically completely out of drought conditions statewide, after one year. 

Faith and prayers work, I guess...


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## Critter

The problem that I see is with the cooler temperatures and increased snowpack here all the way into the ending weeks of May. 

If it turns hot all of a sudden that snowpack is going to start melting and run off can start real quick. 

For us older folks remember back in 1983 when after a drought they were saying that it would take a long time to pull out of it and then all of a sudden we had rivers where streets used to be, not to mention bridges being pull out by UDOT or the counties to keep the water from backing up due to debris being backed up on the bridges themselves.


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## RandomElk16

Global warming in action, Boys!


Critter- I think we are a little better equipped than '83. I think the temps have actually tempered the runoff so while it may be "longer" it seems less drastic thus far than it could be.


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## Vanilla

But even the warming patterns, so far at least, have been perfect. Periods of warm and melting, with a few days of cooler weather to slow down the migration of the water out of the hills. 

Yes, this can all change very quickly. If it goes to 90 degrees next week across the state, then we'll all be swimming. And they are forecasting a hotter than normal summer, so if we our summer goes like last year with no rain at all and super hot, this all changes again as we go into the fall. 

But as of May 20, we simply could not have asked for more perfect conditions and a better winter and spring. And that goes for hunters and non-hunters alike. It's been amazing. I'm thankful for it all.


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## backcountry

Melt off seems to be going fine in southern Utah. The Virgin has been steady with healthy flows for weeks. Snowpack percentages are always wonky early and late season. We've had snowpack like this 4-5 times since the 90s, a few years that surpassed it. 2005 and 2011 both had similar or higher May and June totals, and least on the Markagunt. That is just flow though, not as familiar with deer populations.

A warm rain on snow up high could definitely be big but most areas seem fine down south. And I have no problem with places like the Escalante and Dirty Devil flooding big for long periods. Even the middle and lower Virgin River corridor need a good scouring to beat up some of that tamarisk choking the stream banks.

Cedar needs a lot more water to recharge it's aquifer and we are years off from leaving the drought at this point. Our plants and soils may be out of last year's drought conditions but we are still in the midst of a massive 19 year drought in the long term. These significant oscillations from year to year make it difficult to get too excited about one year's snowpack for too long, ie I'll take whatever moisture we can get.


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## 2full

I unloaded my 4 wheeler at the Y on Cedar mountain and made a run at our cabin last evening........
Didn't get very far at all.  The snow has melted some, but there is still a lot. I didn't get 1 foot further than I did last Sunday, going across the top or trying the low route. There is water running everywhere. 
With the weather and the temps showing for next week it should really start to melt down. 
The County took the Cat up last week and cut the road to Englesteads, but didn't go any further with it this week at all. It's amazing how much snow there is still in that area. Can't imagine how much is still at Smith's flat. I don't mind if they don't cut it open. If they do people will just go up and tear the road up with trucks while it is still muddy. 4 wheelers don't tear it up like the trucks. But, many don't use simple common sense.


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## 2full

Yippee Skippy !!!!!
The county cut the road across cedar mountain back towards miners peak today. 
We happen to unload 4 wheelers at the Y and were going for a ride to checks things out. 
Ended up pretty much following the cat in. 
Got into the cabin. Now cabin season is open. Cameras are up, humming bird feeders up, etc. 
They cut some BIG drifts with the cat. Standing on the 4 wheeler seat we couldn't touch the top of a couple of them. Water running like crazy. Was a good day. 
Hopefully people will wait a week or two to takes trucks in, so the road doesn't get destroyed. 
But we know that won't happen.


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## 2full

A couple of pics.


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## neverdrawn

That's nothing short of amazing 2full. Did they also open it up through Smith Flat and on down toward Kolob?


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## bowgy

2full said:


> Yippee Skippy !!!!!
> The county cut the road across cedar mountain back towards miners peak today.
> We happen to unload 4 wheelers at the Y and were going for a ride to checks things out.
> Ended up pretty much following the cat in.
> Got into the cabin. Now cabin season is open. Cameras are up, humming bird feeders up, etc.
> They cut some BIG drifts with the cat. Standing on the 4 wheeler seat we couldn't touch the top of a couple of them. Water running like crazy. Was a good day.
> Hopefully people will wait a week or two to takes trucks in, so the road doesn't get destroyed.
> But we know that won't happen.


Looks like we have some good water.

The kids will be up there in no time churning up the mud on the roads.

Haven't had a chance to check on ours yet. This weekend my daughter reserved a couple of cabins Friday through Sunday at Fish Lake so I will be pulling the boat up there, it will be another week before I can check on it.


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## 2full

Yes the cat was heading towards kolob when we came out a couple of hours later. 
He was already over to the other side of Smith's flat.


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