# Access To Land Locked Public Lands!!!!!!!



## Tinez

Does anyone know the rights of hunters who would like to access public land which is land locked by private Land owners. I have done some studying on this subject and looking at the laws for Utah and was wondering if I read it right when I have the right to public land and if a land owner does not grant me wirtten permissiion to access the public land then is he breaking the law? -#&#*!- O|* I know the defintion of access according to the state of Utah but the law also states I have the right to public land. If a land owner does not grant anyone access then he just gained more land for his own personal use at no personal expense to himself. This is taking place all over the state of Utah as we sit here and let it. Please help.
Tinez--loves to hunt


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## mack1950

I to have been puzzled by this as we speak i know of several areas here in central utah that follows suit as you mentioned a lock gate stops access through sometimes as few as a couple hundred yards of private property and than goes into untold acreage of blm and forest service lands and while i know a person cannot stop and hunt on private i wish it could be more plain as to acces rights on the roads going through maybe someone in here with more interlect can figure it out i do know this is a growing problem around central utah and im sure the rest of the state as well.


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## Tinez

mack1950 said:


> I to have been puzzled by this as we speak i know of several areas here in central utah that follows suit as you mentioned a lock gate stops access through sometimes as few as a couple hundred yards of private property and than goes into untold acreage of blm and forest service lands and while i know a person cannot stop and hunt on private i wish it could be more plain as to acces rights on the roads going through maybe someone in here with more interlect can figure it out i do know this is a growing problem around central utah and im sure the rest of the state as well.


 Thank You for your input it's nice to know someone else feels the same. I too am from Central Utah and I'm glad I'm not the only one how has came across this issue!!


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## redleg

Places in Utah county have the same problem.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Being on the other side of the coin on this one and having dealt with it quite a bit, I will ask; Is there any other way into the public property? Can you access it by foot from somewhere else? I have fielded many complaints and dealt with many angry customers who felt since there is public property behind our property, that we should be letting them access it.

Not the case. There are plenty of other ways in to the land I speak of, but not by ATV, by foot. It is also more difficult to access by going around.

IF you owned property, would you let someone trespass to access public land? I ask this assuming that the piece is not completely landlocked. If that's the case then I can see your point, but typically when it is landlocked, there is an easement that leads to it somewhere.


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## Tinez

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Thanks for your reply on this. There is no way to access the public land Hence the land locked issue unless you go threw someones private property to get to it. I have asked for permission to walk into these parcles to hunt and even offerd to pat a trepass fee not to hunt on there land but to cross there land and have been told no while I watch them take Deer and Elk on the same public land that they wont let or grant me access too. By no means am I affraid to walk into these places but I want to fallow the law I talked to the DWR about walking into this land crossing about fifteen feet of private to access over 250 acers of flat land and they told me I had to have permission or they would give me a ticket.IF you owned property, would you let someone trespass to access public land?Yes I would according to the Utah Law I have a RIGHT to that land to HUNT FISH AND TRAP so to answer your Question yes I would grant someone permission to cross my land to access that land.You say Customers so I take it you run a business do you refuss a Customer because he is not going to buy what you think he should be buying no I should hope not because you would'nt be in business for long. study the law it says I THE TAX PAYER have a RIGHT to that land. There are very few things we have a right to but this is one of them. :evil: Thank you TINEZ


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## Tinez

redleg said:


> Places in Utah county have the same problem.


Thanks for your input on this  Tinez


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## elk22hunter

Your opening title is an oxy moron. You cannot use Access and Land Locked in the same sentence. That is improper english. 

A smart person is one who buys land that gives him access to a bunch of other land that he doesn't have to pay taxes on but gets to use it while keeping others out. This subject has come up many times and unless the road through the land is covered by an easment or RS247 for public right of way. If the land is not roaded and the only road going to the property is a private road through the private land then you cannot access the public land by any means with out permission of the land owner unless you go around all of the private land. Bottom line, he does not have to give out access.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Tinez said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply on this. There is no way to access the public land Hence the land locked issue unless you go threw someones private property to get to it. I have asked for permission to walk into these parcles to hunt and even offerd to pat a trepass fee not to hunt on there land but to cross there land and have been told no while I watch them take Deer and Elk on the same public land that they wont let or grant me access too. By no means am I affraid to walk into these places but I want to fallow the law I talked to the DWR about walking into this land crossing about fifteen feet of private to access over 250 acers of flat land and they told me I had to have permission or they would give me a ticket.IF you owned property, would you let someone trespass to access public land?Yes I would according to the Utah Law I have a RIGHT to that land to HUNT FISH AND TRAP so to answer your Question yes I would grant someone permission to cross my land to access that land.You say Customers so I take it you run a business do you refuss a Customer because he is not going to buy what you think he should be buying no I should hope not because you would'nt be in business for long. study the law it says I THE TAX PAYER have a RIGHT to that land. There are very few things we have a right to but this is one of them. :evil: Thank you TINEZ
Click to expand...

No, I don't run a business pertaining to access to the land, the word "customers" was refering to public land hunters (I being one of them in most cases.).

Elk22 is right. That is the exact scenario that I get to deal with every year. We have a road that goes in to forest service property and the public has a walk in acess to the south. Many feel it is their right to be able toiuse motorized vehicles to access the property, even though it is posted otherwise at the access points. The access points are in city limits and it is they who have blocked it off. Meanwhile, it is fine and dandy with the Forest service if we ride on the property. I get where you are coming from, kind of. I get a barrage of BS from hunters that feel like they have a sense of entitlement to get to the public property through our property.

It's exactly the same as Wasatch Front access. It wouldn't be ok for me to cut through someones yard to hunt? What makes this issue any different, unless it is landlocked, but even then it's something that needs to be taken up with local officials.


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## COOPERD

look at the map of DESERET, it is a checkerboard of blm land and there land, you would be legal with a GPS and a helicopter, You could hunt DESERET.


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## soules2007

Slippery slope at best. Clarkston utah case in point, the land was intentionally purchased to block blm land(or public land.) completely land locking the hunting area that is quite large. this was done by a california hunting club. However the godfreys a prominet family in the area owned the land farther down the hill and never blocked anyone from using the road, the hunt club never checked who owned the road and who had easment rights much father down the hill so to speak. The first year (somewhere early 90s late 80s) the hunt club brought paying clients up. They blocked alot of the locals from hunting on a mountain they had hunted for generations. The club boundry was patroled with gestapo diligence. And never once gave ear to the residence of the area. The next year the road was blocked lower down, the owners of the club were furious, Disclamier: i do not know the legal aspect of the road blockage. However the club ended up closing was the last i heard. My point is alot of the land in the state is purchased with the intent of land locking the area. A small swath is purchased around the boundry and gaining use of the public land becomes next to impossible. This story is broad storkes at best, The details are public record(Cache County) the BLM has since hopefully gotten a bit wiser and regulates this sort of thing. however it is a nasty bit of buisness. Sorry for all spelling and sentence structure errors in advance, my small holding would not stand up to the education of a real land owner.  PS Remeber the aboriginies you do not own the land you belong to it.


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## Bucks&Bulls

I want to start off by saying that I understand where you are all coming from on this, and I am by no means taking anybody's side. I happen to be a land owner. On a couple of our parcels, some consider our land to "landlock" small portions of BLM and FS land. On one parcel our land and the BLM land borders a lake (which has a shore easement), but our land wraps around the BLM land. There have been countless encounters with pssed-off hunters, some even threatening bodily harm or even life (my father has even had a gun in his face), who think that it is their right to drive their trucks and ATVs across our land, when all they have to do is walk around the lake shore. This past elk season, we had six guys on fourwheelers doing a drive across our land to push the animals off. Also, the hunters that had permission to hunt our land who confronted them were threatened by those men that were trespassing.
We used to allow others to go across another parcel of ours and would even let them hunt on our land if they would just ask, but through finding trash, beer cans, new roads, un-attended camp fires, small game shot and left, and even over a dozen poached deer and elk (buck and bulls always with their heads cut off), so we had to put a stop to it. You wouldn't believe the absolute hell that we had to go through this past season with people driving through our fields, vandalism, and theft. In my experience, most landowners that are jerks about public access are that way becuase they were forced to be that way (with a few exceptions). Bottom line, if people had been a little more respectful, most places that are "landlocked" wouldn't be. It is the actions of more than just a few "sportsmen" that has ruined it for a lot of people.


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## Treehugnhuntr

COOPERD said:


> look at the map of DESERET, it is a checkerboard of blm land and there land, you would be legal with a GPS and a helicopter, You could hunt DESERET.


You're right you could hunt deseret, but not for any of the animals that are listed under their CWMU.


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## GaryFish

A couple of things you can do -

First, find out who built the access road, and determine if it ever was recogonized as a public right of way, either formally or informally. If the access road was built by the Forest Service or BLM, check with the local agency realty manager and request a copy of the easement/lease/right of way agreement that went into building the road. With that in hand, a private land owner may not lock access to the road legally. Land owner - be sure you have in your records, proof that you, or previous land owner, built the road and it wasn't the county, state, or feds. Be sure when you purchase your land that you have all recorded property transactions that would include road rights of way or easements.

Second, if at any time, the road was available for public access for more than 365 continuous days, it becomes a public right of way, even if it is a private road. This would pertain to a road that historically was open year round for people to cut across to get to the Forest or BLM land and in recent years, the private land owner decided to close his road during hunting season. If you can prove that the road was open to public access for more than a year without ever closing - it becomes a public right of way and cannot be closed to the public. Land owner take note here - if you want to retain the road as private, be sure you close it at least once a year to avoid it becoming a public right of way. You will see this a lot in Utah on LDS church properties - they will gate their church parking lots - usually on Christmas day - every year to maintain the private access only - BYU closes all their roads within campus to public access one day a year for this very reason.


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## legacy

I know on some Northern Region CWMU's, they have started a program where the CWMU provides hunting access to other land in exchange for land locked public land within the CWMU. In some case you can actually hunt on the CWMU. It takes a lot of effort to figure all of the boundries out, but it could be worth it. We took advantage of this this past fall and hunted private property that I don't think many other people knew about. We took the maps provided on the the DWR's website and transfered those to a BLM land use map. It came in quite handy, especially in an area with a lot of private property. I also got a lot of helpful input from the DWR.


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## Finnegan

I can understand being miffed at landowners who intentionally purchase property with the intent of gaining control of public acreage, (Ted Turner), but the problem wouldn't exist if public land managers (USFS) were doing a better job in the first place.


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## Guns and Flies

I also did what legacy did, hunt private land so a CWMU could get BLM land included in their CWMU. The private land they allow you to hunt was a joke compared to the BLM land that was gobbled up in the CWMU, and the part that is a joke is the BLM land was accessable by a public road :evil:


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## legacy

Guns and Flies, did you hunt Grouse Creek? Yeah, I'm sure the trade-off favors the CWMU. We hunted a piece that bordered some alfalfa fields. Seen a ton af deer and a ton of small bucks. It was nice because we were basically all by ourselves.


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## Guns and Flies

Legacy (check your PMs), no I didn't hunt that area, the private land we accessed was a joke, the CWMU got some nice BLM land, we were counting up to 100 deer and saw ONE DOE on the private land allowed to the public in the land exchange. How is it that beautiful BLM land is allow to be given to a CWMU in exchange for garbage land? :?: I remain a believer in the system but this one is a bit confusing to me.


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## legacy

Guns and Flies, check your PM's.


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## 10000ft.

You may also want to check with local city governments to find out if the land owner did not have to make some kind of easment or access at the time of purchase or aquireing a building permit. This is the case where I grew up, a guy bought a pice of ground at the base of a very steap narrow canyon and applied for a building permit. The city would not give it to him unless he allowed an access/trail for the public. He agreed and it is in writing at the city but now years later threatens everyone who enters the canyon. I just ignore the threats and make it a point to park away from his property and go in before dark but still run into him on occasion packing or draging animals out the bottom of the canyon.


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## GaryFish

I've had a few guys pm with some questions which I hope I answered. But some information I thought might be valuable to everyone. 

As you look at your maps, looking for "public lands" don't get too excited about the "purple lands" or those that show "State" ownership. Most of these squares are part of the school trust lands. These lands are not "public lands" in the same way that BLM or National Forest lands are. School trust lands are lands held in trust to generate revenue to provide for and support our public school systems. They are managed for that specific purpose. That means that they really are more like private lands, in that they can be sold, leased for mining or grazing, or even leased for private recreation value. They may, or may not, and are usually NOT open to the public. These lands were not purchased, nor are they managed with tax dollars, so that argument of "my tax dollars is paying for it" really doesn't fly relative to these lands. So looking at your maps trying to find a cool way to get into that "purple square" that is surrounded by "white lands" (private lands), don't get too excited. Even if the trust lands have a four lane highway running through them, public access is probably not allowed anyway. 

Be sure to check individual land ownership though. DWR has many lands that have been purchased or are managed for wildlife habitats, and for hunting access. The down side is that these also show up as "purple squares" on the map. Be sure to check on the specific parcel of land.


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## proutdoors

Good post Gary!


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## flinger

What about the $250,000 plus per year that the DWR pays to SITLA (State Institutional Trust lands admin.) to lease those "purple squares" for those who purchase hunting licenses? I'm sure SITLA has some reservations on specific parcels, but does anybody know any information about the DWR/SITLA lease details? I'd have to check the lease details, but I would think that the licensee would be somehow obtaining a "right" to access the SITLA property if there are access roads to the property. By the way, there are maps out there that distiguish between Wildlife Management Areas and those that are SITLA, they may not be accurate, you should always check with the county recorder. I've alway's worried about the possibility of that peice of SITLA land that I've hunted for years being sold off to private ownership. :shock:


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## GaryFish

> What about the $250,000 plus per year that the DWR pays to SITLA (State Institutional Trust lands admin.)


Some parcels are leased as part of the deal, but certainly not all of them. Be sure to check the specific piece you intend to hunt.



> I've alway's worried about the possibility of that peice of SITLA land that I've hunted for years being sold off to private ownership.


My old deer hunting haunt was SITLA lands, and has been sold.


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