# Dutton elk



## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I am contemplating applying for archery LE Elk. I hope to get some insight from you hard core elk hunters.
Dutton is my Unit but the last 3 or 4 years it has taken a nosedive for both quantity and quality of elk, not to mention the terrible deer herd. With that being said, I am considering either Panguitch Unit or the Pavhant. How is the quantity and quality of the elk on those units? Some of you guys are very knowledgable of these units and I would appreciate a heads up if they are worth looking into or not. Good luck to all on the draws.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Sorry guys, I have no idea how this posted 3 times.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

I would do Pahvant over Panguitch personally, but I've never spent much time on Panguitch so I'm mostly speaking out of reputation.

That being said. I would hunt the unit you know, unless you have time to scout a bunch.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I need to start scouting new areas. The Monroe and Beaver units aren't doing that great either. How is the hunting pressure on Panguitch or Pahvant?


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

the pahvant tag is going to be more difficult to acquire...the pahvant has produced top bulls in recent years...
I cannot speak to the Panguitch, but if you have time to scout (depending on where you live) it could be a viable option for you...


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Hope you have a stable of points to draw the Pahvant - to guarantee a tag last year, you had to have 12 points for archery. Panguitch was more doable at 9. I hunted the Pahvant from 2002-2009...mostly during the general deer archery hunts. There are some awesome bulls on the unit, and that is why the draw odds are so steep!


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

If you're considering hunting as far south as Panguitch then I would consider Boulder or Fish Lake as well...


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## Uni (Dec 5, 2010)

The Fillmore Pahvant unit is extremely steep. It's a great unit though, with massive elk. If it rains, don't plan on being to drive anywhere if you are on the southern end..


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Bucksnbulls08 said:


> I need to start scouting new areas. The Monroe and Beaver units aren't doing that great either. How is the hunting pressure on Panguitch or Pahvant?


So do you need a 400" bull? Because the Monroe is still covered with big bulls. Maybe not 400" bulls but plenty of 350+ class bulls. Easy camping easy hunting and tons of advice. You can hunt private land easy enough on that unit. And if it rains you can still drive anywhere you want.

Yep Monroe is still the worlds greatest elk hunting unit.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Panquitch has turned into a ZOO for the LE Archery Elk hunt. Tons of spike/cow hunters, and tons of Archery Deer hunters. We did it last year, and there was people everywhere. And we spent quite a bit of time walking into places. We did not do the "road hunt". Not sure about whether the other units are as bad for traffic that way.

I was thinking of putting in for Beaver archery because of the traffic on Panqy unit last year. I am pretty much there to draw a tag. I know Panqy and love the area, but it's not worth it.
Anyone who may of hunted Beaver have an opinion on that unit for traffic? I don't care if I don't kill a monster bull. I just like to have a quality hunt without a million people around.
o-||


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys. I did not know about the Pahvant being that slick in the rain. My goal is a 350 plus bull when I finally get lucky enough to draw again. I thought the Monroe was like the Dutton and way down on quality bulls. I spent over 30 days on the Dutton last year and only saw 1 bull over 350. I know there are some great bulls on each of these units but they are few and far between as compared to 4 years ago. I will look into Boulder as well. We live on the fringe of the Boulder and I have several friends that know it very well but none of the are bowhunters.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

Boulder is more conducive terrain for the rifle or muzzy hunt, but there is a ton of area and not that many tags for how large of an area it is. If the bulls are rutting heavy enough toward the end of the archery hunt and/or it is a dry enough summer...Boulder is a great archery unit. This last year I spent a week there with my friend who had a big bull tag and we saw 3 bulls at or over 350 in 7 days. That was with a very wet summer and the rutting activity was hit or miss during those 7 days. I loved the hunt...if I lived close to the Boulder unit I would hunt it every year I could.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I've been thinking of applying for dutton archery elk, but everyone says the Dutton is hard to hunt. The Monroe and Beaver are probably the only two units in the state that still have a considerable amount of 350+ bulls on them. The pahvant was good until the last couple years. Overtagging and the allowance to shoot cows and sooooooo many spikes off the states units have really hurt the quantity and quality of elk everywhere in the state. But no one will agree with me on that. I get tired of armchair city people telling me how the units I hunt are looking at. And I'm not just talking about the DWR I'm talking about many on this forum who praise the DWR on a job well done when deer numbers are plummeting and elk quality and quantity have gone so far down hill a tag you put in 20 years for was not worth your wait and the places you wanted to hunt don't have a thing left over 300"s.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I have noticed since the age objective was lowered and especially since the spike hunt began on the Dutton, the quality of the hunt has spiralled downhill. The Boulderdoesn't seem to be as negatively affect or if it has, that unit would have been awesome. The spike hunts on LE units are hurting the quality.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> The Monroe and Beaver are probably the only two units in the state that still have a considerable amount of 350+ bulls on them.


Are you serious!!! A lot of your posts are crazy but this statement takes the cake


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

hockey said:


> #1DEER 1-I said:
> 
> 
> > The Monroe and Beaver are probably the only two units in the state that still have a considerable amount of 350+ bulls on them.
> ...


I too thought it was funny.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Considerable amount? what kind of percentage is considerable?

And does anyone in Utah REALLY now how big a 350 bull is?
Does anyone in Utah Know what 'deductions' are? And what a TRUE 350 bull looks like?

I do know this, I high percentage of bulls, If left alone their entire lives,
and died of old age would NEVER score a true 350...................

Some of you need to start guiding hunts, try that for a few years with a client
breathing down your neck wanting a 350+ bull.......You'll find out how hard :shock:

And I agree with 1-I, there's a good number of units that USED to produce 350+
bulls regular ....Its so much tougher than it was 5/6 years ago it ain't even funny......
And the Dutton, WAS one of them. :O•-:


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

The score thing has really gotten out of hand (I'm not directing this at the person who posted) and that is the reason I thought it was funny. I hope you find a bull that meets your criteria. Good luck on your hunts.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I mentioned 350
Bulls because I have taken a 350 bull with my bow. I am more importantly looking for a bull with long tines, large whale tails and decent width. If I had a bull with the character that I am looking for but would go in the 330s, I would probably go for it. 350 was a bench mark for me. You are right, the beauty of the animal is far more important. The hunt it self is the most important. If I can spend days on the mountain without seeing other hunters, I am happy!


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Every body has their own version of a great hunt or what they hope for or anticipate. The person that goes for a trophy is no better or worse than the guy that wants nothing more than meat in a freezer or the person that uses it as good excuse to go camping while armed. None of them should have to explain or justify themselves to anybody else. To each their own.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

2full said:


> Panquitch has turned into a ZOO for the LE Archery Elk hunt. Tons of spike/cow hunters, and tons of Archery Deer hunters. We did it last year, and there was people everywhere.


Yup. And those who didn't get an archery deer tag naturally grabbed a spike/cow elk tag and ran through the trees. Animals were pushed on the higher private property and monument and held there from all sides. I did some scouting on the Monroe, for the heck of it, and saw really good bulls the largest being around 375ish.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Joe, you can't put in until next year anyway.......unless you found away around the FIVE YEAR wait.....and if you did, you best tell me about it. 8)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> Considerable amount? what kind of percentage is considerable?
> 
> And does anyone in Utah REALLY now how big a 350 bull is?
> Does anyone in Utah Know what 'deductions' are? And what a TRUE 350 bull looks like?
> ...


I'll be your Huckleberry on knowing how big a 350 is......or a B&C all-timer....or a 400+ monster........ :twisted:

I do agree that most bulls will never hit anywhere near the revered 400 inch mark, and yet we have 'sportsmen' and outfitters/guides demanding we manage for such Utopian outcomes....including YOU! :?

I keep hearing how all these units are down, and I believe Bucksandbulls when he says the 'quality' is down on the Dutton, as he is likely the most knowledgable person on that unit breathing as of right now. However, I do NOT believe the decline is soley due to the increase in bull permits ans spike permits. Rather, I think the inane policy of high cow permits is a factor, and I do NOT blame the DWR for this. Their hands are tied on such issues, thanks to the IDIOTIC management practice of harvest age averages, forcing excess bulls to be carried, which on units at/near/over herd population objectives leads to far too many cows being harvested. I have seen MONSTER bulls spend all summer on the Dutton, only to migrate to the Beaver/Boulder units where there are more cows available. In the past, bulls migrated FROM those units to the Dutton. I made a pretty good living taking advantage of bulls coming of the Beaver and Boulder units. In fact, I helped hunter take more than a dozen bulls well over the 350 mark intercepting Beaver/Boulder bulls.

Just my two cents.......


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> [quote"] However, I do NOT believe the decline is soley due to the increase in bull permits ans spike permits. Rather, I think the inane policy of high cow permits is a factor.....


[/quote]

It has become clear, that on this forum, most don't understand what is happening
to Utah's elk herds. So, hard numbers is the route I'll go. 
Most seem to understand whats happening when math and real numbers are used.

Dutton by the numbers:

Duttons current herd objective is set at 1,500 elk.

Current herd estimates, (winter counts not available yet for 2012):
2011 - 1,800
2010 - 1,750
2009 - 2,000
2008 - 1,500
2007 - 1,400

Cow's, antler less harvest over the same period:
2011 - 69
2010 - 289
2009 - 123
2008 - 71
2007 - 23

Bulls harvested over the same period:
2011 - 71 mature bulls, 68 spikes ( 139 total bulls )
2010 - 103 mature bulls, 60 spikes ( 163 toal bulls )
2009 - 177 mature bulls
2008 - 102 mature bulls
from 2007 back, bull harvest dropped significantly, to were,
In 2001 there were 30 bulls TOTAL harvested on Dutton, Get the picture :?:

This is why the big bulls have disappeared on Mt Dutton.................

The Dutton was UNDER total objective when most of the big bulls were killed there.
And the reason FEWER big bulls are being harvested there now IS NOT because
of "insane policy of high cow permits",.............


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Yeah, lets ignore all the other factors, right? When one has an agenda, seeing the total picture is not an option, eh? I hunted that unit in 2000, when VERY few tags were offered, and killing a 300" bull was a tall order. The unit was considered below average until 2003. The question is, what happened between 2000 and 2003? I was on that mountain every week during the summer/fall during the 2000-2007 seasons, I saw things with my own eyes. I highly doubt you can find very many people who know the Dutton well to agree that there are more elk on that until during HUNTING season than 5-10 years ago.

To be clear, I know what happened between 2000 and 2003..........!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> It has become clear, that on this forum, most don't understand what is happening to Utah's elk herds. So, hard numbers is the route I'll go. Most seem to understand whats happening when math and real numbers are used. Sadly, you are proof that your assertion is indeed true........But alas, the great thing about stats; you can manipulate them to 'prove' your stance, as you once again are proof of that.
> 
> The Dutton was UNDER total objective when most of the big bulls were killed there.
> And the reason FEWER big bulls are being harvested there now IS NOT because
> of "insane policy of high cow permits",.............  Anyone will even a minimal knowledge of the Dutton and surrounding units can tell you that getting accurate and consistent herd counts is tricky at best. Elk from several units winter in the SAME areas, sometimes when the counts are done a majority of the elk counted are on the Boulder, or the Beaver, or the Monroe, or the Dutton. Also, herd counts are conducted in a completely different time of year than when the LE hunts are conducted. I can't tell you how many bulls I have watched cross back and forth between the different units, same with the cows. During the rut, you can sit on the highway that seperates the Dutton and the Boulder, at night and watch HUNDREDS of elk go back and forth. There are many factors that MUST be considered in order to get the whole picture, regardless of how 'good' your math is......


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks for the kind word Pro. I am planning ahead and looking for more country to scout. You know how I love the Dutton but it just doesn't have what it did. I know a lot of elk off the Boulder and Dutton winter together on both sides of the highway, so the winter count is not that accurate unit by unit. When the age objective dropped, the quality of bulls reflected the change. With spike hunters hunting during the same time as the LE bowhunters, the elk have vanished to the hell holes. Yes spike hunters don't get to hunt the last week of LE season but the rifle hunters pour in that week in preparation of their hunt starting that Saturday. So what was supposed to be a week for the elk bowhunters to be alone, the mountain is Live with trucks and wheelers running up and down the roads and every ridge has a person classing and bugling, the elk know what is up.
Why is it the LE Elk bowhunters have to share the mountain with deer and spike archers during the non-rut/pre-rut days but rifle, the most efficient long range weapon gets the peak of the rut to themselves and the poor muzzy guys get the left overs? I firmly believe if the archery season was moved later into Sept a couple weeks, muzzy followed and then the rifles guys in Oct.all the tags would be sold for no revenue loss and all groups would have great hunts. With rifle out of the rut when elk are the most vulnerable, I also believe a few more of those good bulls would survive, not mention having bred the cows passing on the gene pool.
How about those deer anyway.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Logic will never outweigh big money :!:


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

I learned a long time ago working for the government, just follow the money and you will get to the source of the reason why. 
With the season structure the way it is on the LE elk hunts, it is obvious it is a money and power driven issue. If the beneifits of the herds were the primary concerns, rifle would never be in the peak of the rut. I believe Utah is the only state that manages the elk hunts in that fashion. Every other state has Archery, Muzzy then rifle. Most difficult weapon up to the easiest weapon. But what do I know, I am just a country boy with a lot of common sense without the political BS. Common sense tells me we can't keep killing spikes with hopes of increasing bigger bulls, the big bulls come from somewhere. The last two years are a testament to that.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

bowgy and bulls08.......+1 and then some.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Bucksnbulls, I also agree with what your saying but I am also glad to see an increase in tags the last few years. I think it has slowed down or even lowered the max point pool a little in many units.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Ridgetop, I believe decreasing the max point pool and increasing opportunity was the intent, mission accomplished. I guess the equation is how do we increas opportunity and still maintain quality? So far that plan is not working. I think if archery tags were increased and rifle tags were decreased by the same number, the revenue would remain the same as all tags will still sale, less bulls would be killed each year and the quality would slowly increase. Of course the obvious would be to move the rifle hunt out of the rut. I know I will get shots for that statement but from increasing the number of larger bulls stand point, the benefits are glaringly obvious. Just look at the 2012 harvest report and compare the harvest rate for each weapon. I do not say this as a pro or anti any specific weapon but give the most difficult weapon the most tags, next most difficult gets a less and the easiest receives less. The LE tags will still sale out regardless of the weapon allotment. Sorry for the high horse but you got me going!


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## shawnsanchez1 (Jun 24, 2010)

me and my dad own property up on the monroe and if it was me i would be putting in for that. just saying i know the monroe pretty good and there are still BIG BULLS.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

And Shawn will sell you access to his property! Just ribbing you man! EVERYONE should put in for the Monroe as their only choice!


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Good to hear the Monroe still has some good bulls. More accessible hunting than on the Dutton also.


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

Joe, I've already grown tired of the crowds that have developed from allowing spike elk hunting on Dutton and I'm really fed up with the rifle hunters coming in to sight in and scout the unit prior to their hunt. I agree that the seasons should run archery, muzzy and rifle with a week break between each.


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

Art, intelligent and common sense people can see this, it is obvious. Other states many their herds and hunting season that way. I truly believe if that was the format used, the Div would not loose any income from unpurchased permits and it would reduce some hunting pressure from the elk herds during a critical time. A strong rut season is beneficial to a healthy herd. It amazes me that those in power of wildlife decisions can't come to grips with the reality of this concept unless they are bought off but the special interest groups. I see the Wildlife Board has 2 seats to fill with new members. Pray they can bring some intelligence to this board.
I don't understand how the Dutton last year had a reduction in archery deer permits and an increase in Rifle permits! That surely was not a benefit to the deer herds. If money is the issue, allow more NR permits. NR permits are selling for 3 to 5 times more money than residents.


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## Nalgi (Apr 16, 2010)

I've only hunted Dutton for the last 42 years so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to weigh in on this but age has its privileges! 

In the 70's we only hunted 4pt bucks because they were all over. We NEVER saw elk. We over hunted the unit and the deer started to decline in numbers and size. 

In the 90's we started seeing elk and they quickly grew in number and size. Though we would occasionally see some good bucks the numbers have been few and far between. Now remember, my point of reference is the "Good old days" when we would knock down 15-20 good bucks on opening day. We had pretty big camps back then.

I agree there are far too many people tromping around Dutton. However, I agree with the reduction in the number of deer tags. I believe the Dutton deer herd will be back to what I remember in 3 or 4 years. I would rather have a good hunt every 3 or 4 years than see all the spikes and forky's shot like I do now. IMO

As for the elk, I think the fact that Dutton is dry (especially north of Forest Creek) has had more to do with seeing Bulls than anything else. Yes, I keep applying for a bull tag and I do buy a Spike tag. When there is water in the ponds we see and kill elk, when the ponds are dry we don't. If its dry I think they stay on Monroe and Boulder. Good luck in 2013!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

some of you guys crack me up.


I think we should close the mountains during any LE elk hunt, and only allow those with tags on the mountain. After all, why should LE hunters have to compete with any other people out to enjoy the mountains? 


I've archery hunted my whole life. I've put up with "scouting", grouse hunters, atv riders, outdoor enthusiasts, labor day weekenders, and enviro whackos for years. Guess what? It's all part of the game. Sure thing; I've had my own LE elk hunt screwed up by grouse hunters on motorbikes traveling cross country. It happens.

You guys complaining about the spike elk hunters and the deer hunters sharing your same hunting grounds are pathetic.

Maybe we should turn the tide? Maybe we should limit LE hunters? Should we limit their scouting time so as to not have them interfering with other's out enjoying time in the woods? Do you have any idea how many times I've had people scouting for their LE tag screw up MY deer or spike hunt?

We all have the right to be in the woods. Share, and share alike.


There are lots of units I'd consider. Fish Lake, Beaver, Panguitch, SW, Monroe, Pahvant, and Dutton would all be good bets. There are nice bulls on all of those units. I'd pick the unit that I WANT to hunt, and then go find a nice bull. There is nothing better than spending time on a mountain I love with my brothers! Bull or no bull.


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