# Duck Hunting Puppy - Big Question??



## Mr._Rogers (Dec 29, 2010)

I am looking to get a puppy- I have heard mixed feeling on this topic.... How important is pedigree and how much is training and alot of time in the field???? Some say, any lab has the potential to be a great duck dog. Some would only pay $1000 + for a dog from a great pedigree ETC. What are your thoughts?


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

I've had both back yard puppies and kennel breeder puppies. The best all around dogs by far are the back yard breeders puppies. My current one has a huge desire to hunt, very smart and a great duck dog, but he's also great around the family, which isn't something I've had great experiences with from the kennel dogs.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

Lots of good information here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=44323

IMO, pedigree disposition of both parents and heath clearances are all extremely important parts of a decision on which puppy is right for you. Some breeders breed for drive, some for conformation, some for a lap dog, and some for a dog that knows the difference between the field and home and the ability to act accordingly. I don't know too many backyard breeders who worry about health clearances, and given the massive number of problems plaguing labs, I want a dog that comes from parents who have been tested and found clear.


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## Stickboy (Oct 28, 2010)

I recently picked up a pup from a backyard guy. She is now 10 mnths old and I have been working with her ever since she was 3 mnths. She is my first duck dog and have had some help getting her started, force breaking, and single marks in cover. The cost for the training far exceed the initial cost of the pup. When we picked her up two months ago the trainer gave her a C- and said she was pretty lazy and immature for her age.

If I had it to do over again, I would personally look to pick up a started dog. Or at least be willing to pay for a better breeding line. That's me and what I have discovered about my abilities to train a working dog.

I think in the end she we be ok for retrieving out in the rice, but refuge work will be another story.

Good luck
-c


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Joel Draxler said:


> Lots of good information here:
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=44323
> 
> IMO, pedigree disposition of both parents and heath clearances are all extremely important parts of a decision on which puppy is right for you. Some breeders breed for drive, some for conformation, some for a lap dog, and some for a dog that knows the difference between the field and home and the ability to act accordingly. I don't know too many backyard breeders who worry about health clearances, and given the massive number of problems plaguing labs, I want a dog that comes from parents who have been tested and found clear.


+1.

Having said that, I think a lot of people buying a new pup get the mentality that if it has good pedigree and lines then their time spent training can be reduced drastically. Granted a smarter dog will catch on quicker, it is still VITAL that you go into any pup purchase knowing that time and money you need to spend working with your dog. Great pedigree or not so great, the amount of time you are willing to spend training your pup will be more of an importance than anything IMO.


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## hotspot (Jan 12, 2009)

Amount of effort = Amount of return. I have hunted behind a rescued dog that cost the owner nothing. Impressive! Although he only trained the dog to a certin point, he told me that those who helped him with training technique is what made it a success. Lots of time on any dog and you will get results!! As far as drive for retrieving Is what I would expect to see more of in a good line. IMO I'd go with a good line. But above all I'd go with good training. At least that is my number 1 and 2.


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## Dave B (Oct 1, 2007)

To me the biggest and most important issue here is the health of the breed. Backyard dogs can and will readily get the job done, but for how many years? Please consider this when buying a dog. Look into the serious and sad health problems labs have. Most backyard dogs will start to get the first signs of arthritis and hip displaysia at a very young age. Not to mention their sight going to the crapper. The backyard yahoos are trying to make a quick buck and who can blame them, but 90% of them don't know or care about the problems they are bringing to these poor dogs. Please at the very least take this into consideration when going to buy any dog, the certifications ARE important. Do not support uncertified pups. DO YOUR DOG AND THE BREED A FAVOR!!!!!


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## Steve Shaver (Mar 9, 2008)

Definition of a back yard breeder = Someone that doesnt have a clue about breeding. Two dogs of the same breed with papers means $$
Although you can get lucky and get a good one I myself wouldnt touch one with a ten foot pole. Been there done that before I knew any better.
Some guys will spend $1500 for a shotgun but only want to spend $300 on a dog, should be the other way around.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

My Gus has a fantastic pedigree, about as good as can be found. His litter mate became one of the top 5 AKC field trial dogs in the country in trial points earned. Gus was discounted because he was the last pup in the litter and a black male. Everybody wants yellow or chocolate these days. Some do not know that black males have dominated the field trial world for years. They just want color. You do not have to spend upwards of a grand to get a GREAT dog. I do think you need to be willing to pay as much as you would pay for a gun on the dog. Find a good breeder who will work with you on that last pup. Just make sure the pedigree is right. 

Then spend the time to help the dog achieve its potential. Half of what you get from a dog is what you put into it.


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## kev (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm going to add something here. I may be completely wrong, so consider this is only my opinion.

Big $$$$ doesn't does not = guarantee, never will. There is no exact science, if there was someone out there would be very, very rich, and the standard would be exponentially raised, and we would be at square one, only with dogs that could decipher quantam equations, and deliver to hand.

However.... "big time" breeders spend countless hours, and dollars working to get the best breedings possible. That raises the price. They also only breed to "proven" dogs (proven can mean whatever one wants, that's another stumbling point, that you will have to navigate). That raises the price. The only breed to dogs that have been scientifically proven clear from the most common plagues of the breed. That raises the price. They also get the pups the best care from the vet, in the first stages of life. That rasies the price.

NONE of these things, will guarantee a great dog. But they dang sure improve your odds. Both of a dog that's trainable (yes you still have to train it), of a semi-predictable temperment, and ones that's healthy.

To me it's just like buying a high dollar brand new vehicle, vs. a not so high dollar used one. Your odds of problems go way down, with a new one and it's alot easier to "guess" about the shape the vehicle is in.

Now that I'm done rambling..... My story.

14 years ago I spend $2750 on a 7 week old pup. I didn't know anything, literally, anything about training a dog. Read some books, proceeded to screw things up, really really bad. Still had a pretty good dog, 9 months later. Was smart enough to see some potential, got some help, trained, more help, more train. In the end I had a dog that ended up with an MH title, did well (despite all my efforts to derail him) in some trials, but more importantly (to me) retrieved well over 25,000 birds for me (we worked at a hunting club for 12 of those years). Worth every single penny. I'd do it again in a heart beat. The forgivability that he had, and willingness to work, paid dividends. 

Bottom line, big buck doesn't guarantee anything. But if you'll put in the leg work and do your research, you can improve your odds by being willing to part with a few bucks.

Later,
Kev

Side bar- I had to find that dog another home, because of some problems with the neighbors. I found out the other day that he has since passed away. 2 months from his 15th birthday. RIP Cedar Hills High Flyer


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

We recently put a setter down at 8 years old. Her spinal problems that were her demise were likely a result of poor confirmation, and I could go on and on about the problems this caused with her reliability as a bird dog. Finding birds was never in question when she was in the game, but she was often hurt or ran her pads off. No matter how much conditioning she was given. The first ability has to be availability, and she was unavailable to much. She was a nice dog, and we loved her.It was sad to see her life end so suddenly and so young. I get health certified dogs now. It just isn't worth it not to. Why not stack the odds in your favor. No matter the breed.

I'm sorry about your old dog Kev. They don't live long enough.... **** things.


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

kev said:


> Side bar- I had to find that dog another home, because of some problems with the neighbors. I found out the other day that he has since passed away. 2 months from his 15th birthday. RIP Cedar Hills High Flyer


Oh Kev, so sorry to hear that. He was truly a one of a kind! What a dog and what a life he led! Sorry buddy.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

you really do get what you pay for with a lab. the initial cost is just a fraction of the money you will spend over its entire life with food, vet bills, training, gear, etc....and cutting corners to save a couple hundred bucks up front can cost you a lot of money and heartache later. if you are looking for a top quality lab i will have a litter of yellows in a month that i can assure you are as good as anything you will find.


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## 400bullelk (Nov 28, 2007)

My first dog came from a guy that had a good reputation for his pups. He came out of a master hunter, all lines were hunt test. Died at two years old, health problems. I wasn't going down that road again. Bought a field trial dog, guarnteed health, could check its line and see how the hips, eyes, and blood tested out. Your initial investment, what you pay for the dog, is the cheapest part of owning a dog. You want a dog with a lot of drive, my pup was a crazy son of a gun when we brought him home. At around five o'clock every night, he would just start running around the house. We called it the bewitching hour. He is now 17 months old and just chill, but when you take him out to work, he wants to get the birds. With training you can get them to chill in the house. A dog with a good pedigree will put the odds in your favor, they still have duds, but not as much as "unproven" lines. You can get a good pup out of good field trial lines for $500-$1500, not much when it comes to the time in training you have to put in. Again put the odds in your favor.


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