# Help with a rifle.



## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay guys I am really itching to get another rifle.My knowledge of rifles is not that of my archery so any insight is helpful. Looking at a 243.or a 25-06. I have a $1000 dollar budget. Feel free to offer other caliber options as well. I have a 22-250 that I love for varmints and have even thought about a 223. So suggestions on a build with a $1k budget give or take a few hundred. Lets hear it.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

What are you going to use the rifle for...deer...elk...varmints...paper?


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Well I just got thinking that before i could edit my thread. It will be a hunting rifle deer possibly elk but I would probably build a different rifle for elk.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I personally purchased a .25-06 last fall to try out on deer and antelope. It is going to have to wait a year since I drew all my muzzle loader tags this year. But that would be my choice for you.

Before I bought the .25-06 I was looking at the 6.5 Creedmore, it is a fantastic round and should be a lot of fun to work up reloads and to shoot. If you want to look at them take a look at this thread. It is a pretty good buy if he still has it.

You also don't mention if you reload or plan on just shooting factory ammo out of it. That would be a big determining on which one I would purchase.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

I don't reload yet. Planning on it though.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I would take a hard look at the 6.5mms like the Creedmor, 6.5x47, 260 Rem, etc. What about spending a little less on the rifle and getting your reloading setup for the difference? You will never look back. I think you can get about the same accuracy with a good rifle and reloads vs custom rifle and factory.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

280 Ackley.


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

If you truly intend on getting another rifle for elk, I would go with the 25-06. If you want to hunt elk, I would look at something a bit bigger like the 280 or 30-06. The 25 will surely kill elk, we've hashed that out on here before, but it is far from optimal. They do work very well on deer and might be the best choice for antelope. 

The 25-06 is a great choice for hand loading or shooting factory ammo as well. I have a bunch of 25's and I love them all. ----SS


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

My suggestions would be a .243 for deer or a .270WIN for both deer and elk. Factory ammo availability/selection is generally good for both calibers until you start reloading your own.

Some would say .270 is borderline too small for elk but more people say it's plenty with proper shot placement...my personal experience is the latter when using good quality bullets. Ballistically it is an excellent shooting round with few flaws.

I'd look at a Model 700 or Savage in either caliber as a good starting point and then customize from there.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Are you looking for a heavy barreled rig, or a light weight mountain rifle? Remington has their 700 Long Range in the 25-06 for around $700, for one of the best deals around on a heavy target/varmint rig. Just about every manufacturer has a heavy target/varmint 243. $1000 will buy you a lot of rifle from most manufacturers. Does that number include a scope and mounts? Browning has a cute little mountain/light varmint rifle in 6.5 Creedmore that you might find interesting.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

bass2muskie said:


> It will be a hunting rifle deer possibly elk but I would probably build a different rifle for elk.


7mm-08...I seem to be going in the opposite direction these days in that I want a lightweight low kicking rifle without needing the fastest barn burner out there. I bought my son a 7mm-08 and now want one for myself. Great Antelope and Deer gun...which can be used for elk if needed...but you said you'd build another setup for elk....so that takes care of that.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

There is a 6.5 for sale on here, he may meet you at the range and let you shoot it to see how it feels, just a thought.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay so I am picking up a 6.5 CM today so maybe I should just take that and build it up. I've just looked at everyone who owns a 25-06 and they love it so it makes me want one. The 1k would be for rifle and optics. I do like the thought of getting a little less gun and then getting my reloading setup with it. I know nothing of reloading so anyone that has info on what to get and where would be greatly appreciated.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

My Weatherby Vangard in .25-06 and a Leupold VXII 2-9 scope, rings, and 1 box of ammo was less than $700 out the door last year. That would leave $300 for you for a reloading set.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Critter said:


> My Weatherby Vangard in .25-06 and a Leupold VXII 2-9 scope, rings, and 1 box of ammo was less than $700 out the door last year. That would leave $300 for you for a reloading set.


I like that price. Also forgot to mention this will be a hunting rifle so I don't want it to weigh a ton. So more of a mountain rifle.


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## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

If you are looking for that mid-range 25 cal rifle. You can't go wrong with a 257WBY. Pushing a 100gr monolithic bullet at 3600 ftps. Awesome. If you are looking for a do it all gun that you could feel confident hunting speed goats, deer, elk, etc. I would recommend a 7Mag, 300 Win, 300WSM. Next step up that probably isn't a good speed goat option would be 300 RUM, 338 RUM, 340 WBY, etc. 

Brand-- Winchester, Remington (only the 700 line), Browning, etc


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I got a *brand new* Browning x-Bolt in 300 WSM I'll sell you for $650...Total, no taxes. 300 WSM is absolute great all around caliber. This rifle sells MRSP $950 + taxes.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

My own thoughts. I've always used my 30-06 for anything and everything. But in recent years, I've been jonesing for a .308. Not sure why but it seems to be a forgotten but proud cartridge.

On the 25 caliber range though, if you go there, I like the 25-06 choice. but really, if you want a necked down 30-06, then I can't find any scenario where the 25-06 would be superior to something like a .270. But that is just me. And if you go there, then is there anything better, more prettier, classier than a Winchester Model 70 in .270? That rifle makes me want to grill a steak, salute the flag, roll my own smoke, saddle up and salute Jack O'Conner.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/02/jacks-rifle


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

I just picked up a brand new T/C venture 300 WSM, and topped it with a vortex viper 6.5x20x44mm. scope, rings, and gun all for about 700. given everything I bought was on sale, but that 300 WSM as mentioned would be a great all around caliber, and the gun is light, and accurate.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> On the 25 caliber range though, if you go there, I like the 25-06 choice. but really, if you want a necked down 30-06, then I can't find any scenario where the 25-06 would be superior to something like a .270. But that is just me(and me). And if you go there, then is there anything better, more prettier, classier than a Winchester Model 70 in .270? That rifle makes me want to grill a steak, salute the flag, roll my own smoke, saddle up and salute Jack O'Conner.
> 
> http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/02/jacks-rifle


...


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

GaryFish said:


> My own thoughts. I've always used my 30-06 for anything and everything. But in recent years, I've been jonesing for a .308. Not sure why but it seems to be a forgotten but proud cartridge.
> 
> On the 25 caliber range though, if you go there, I like the 25-06 choice. but really, if you want a necked down 30-06, then I can't find any scenario where the 25-06 would be superior to something like a .270. But that is just me. And if you go there, then is there anything better, more prettier, classier than a Winchester Model 70 in .270? That rifle makes me want to grill a steak, salute the flag, roll my own smoke, saddle up and salute Jack O'Conner.
> 
> http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/02/jacks-rifle


Totally agree on the 270 is an awesome choice and have been tempted into buying another one in the model 70. I sold my last one because it wasn't as accurate as I wanted.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm not set on a 25-06 like I said I'm getting a 6.5 creedmoor tonight. So a 270. Or a 300 wsm would probably be a better option.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Cabelas has the Model 70 on sale right now in all the regular calibers, for $699. Beautiful.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

GaryFish said:


> Cabelas has the Model 70 on sale right now in all the regular calibers, for $699. Beautiful.


Guess I know where I'm headed tomorrow.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Much <3 for M70's.


-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I know it's boring but a good ol .270 is not a bad round for most larger game in Utah.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

bass2muskie said:


> Totally agree on the 270 is an awesome choice and have been tempted into buying another one in the model 70. I sold my last one because it wasn't as accurate as I wanted.


You weren't loading it right.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Loke said:


> You weren't loading it right.


It wasn't a model 70 it was a cheap Remington with a cheap bushnell scope.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm waiting for my oldest brother to die so I can sneak off during the funeral and swipe his pre-64 .270....although I probably will have to wrestle my other brother for it because I know he will be after it during the funeral too.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

What's your thoughts on a 270 wsm?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell more guns. Ammo is scarce and expensive. You burn 20% more powder to get 40% more recoil and 3% more velocity. Which translates to about 50 more yards of effective range.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

So then is the 300 wsm worth buying over a 270?


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

bass2muskie said:


> So then is the 300 wsm worth buying over a 270?


Yes, that way if you ever go to Alaska you will not need to buy a new gun.

Also, try to try them out before you buy them.

It is a lot cheaper to reduce the recoil on a big gun (muzzle brake), than it is to buy a smaller gun and convert it to a bigger gun.

You also have more variability in the 300 wsm 165 gr to a 220 gr in factory ammo.

I don't subscribe to the recoil argument for standard big game hunting, I subscribe to the gun you can make the most effective one shot kill.

In my mind it is .270 -.338 and anything thing in that range will do the trick.

Recoil is all a mind game. Those not mentally strong enough to push through the barrier of recoil should choose a lesser gun.

At a shooting range I feel the recoil and hear the sound of the gun, hunting I don't even notice the recoil or the sound of the gun.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

bass2muskie said:


> So then is the 300 wsm worth buying over a 270?


I have had both and loved each of them. They are high powered, but not the high recoil. I have the 300 in a Savage 16 that is the most accurate rifle I have ever had. The recoil is sharply less than a 30-06, at least my Rem 700 ADL, terrible accuracy and heavy recoil, I am not light weight by anyone's interperetation, but that one really thumped me to where I really didnt like shooting it. However both of the WSM's are very pleasant to shoot and I have never noticed any recoil being unpleasant and I shoot the crap out of both of them! I like the 30 cal flexibility if I had to choose between the two. 
The 6.5CM is awesome too, I lied my 6.5cm in Savage LRP was the most accurate, but that is a target/match rifle weighing nearly double my WSM. You need both, but depends on what you have in your portfolio as to which is first.
You need to reload, once you start you will be kicking yourself as to why you hadnt begun years ago! I am sure that you could find a guy pretty close to you on here who would do a loading session with you to see what it is all about.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay guys getting ready to head over to cabelas. Any info on what reloader kit I should be looking at?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

RCBS Rockchucker kit is hard to beat.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

A lot of people recommend the RCBS Rockchucker, but it's twice the price of the Lee kit. I didn't have enough money when I started so I have the Lee Breach Lock kit. I really like it and it has done everything I've needed it to. I'm not sure how much you could improve on the press itself. I will say however, I don't have anything to compare it to so the others may really that much better. 

To be honest though, I felt the same about my Lee dies. How much better could the others really be? That was, until I got a set of RCBS dies. Sure the Lee dies get the job done, but the RCBS really are better quality and better design IMO, and that's what I'll be getting in the future.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't think I have bought anything new except my scales. All the rest I got for less than 50 cents on the dollar off of the KSL boards.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Well I picked up a 6.5 creedmoor and still trying to decide on my other rifle. I looked at the reloading stuff is exhausting. I looked at the kit but then I look at powder and everything that I need and I'm trying to figure out if it's really worth it.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

On the reloading stuff - I reloaded for a while for my 30-06. And to be quite honest, I found I got better accuracy from my rifle with off the shelf factory ammo. Granted, I did not invest as much time as I should have in becoming better at reloading. But I found that straight up, it didn't save me any money - and I was given the reloading kit so I had no capital investment - just components. It just wasn't a thing for me so I ended up trading my reloading kit away. I had the RCBS RockChucker kit and it was great. With the standard cartridges like 30-06 or 270, there are so many very good factory offerings to choose, it is much easier to just buy the ammo. For a round like your 6.5 there, there aren't the same kinds of offerings available, so you are left to what you can put together on your own so it might make more sense.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I'd also look to see if any of your buddies load - it might help you see if it's something you really want to invest in or not. Personally, I really enjoy it. For me, it provides an extra level of satifaction in my shooting/hunting. There's definitely nothing wrong with not reloading though.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Reloading isn't for everyone. If you have multiple rifles, pistols, and calibers and like to shoot a lot then it will pay for itself. If you only plan on loading one or two calibers and don't shoot that much you may be better off buying ammo off the shelf. You can find ammo right off the shelf that will be very accurate, it just takes time and money to find it.

I am not sure if they still do it but Carpenter Seed in south Provo used to let you use their equipment in the store if you purchased the dies and components from them, that is where I got the bug before I purchased my own equipment.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

I have the itch to reload its just very confusing on what to get. The more I have been looking at rifles the more the 308 is calling my name. Too many options out there.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

bass2muskie said:


> I have the itch to reload its just very confusing on what to get. The more I have been looking at rifles the more the 308 is calling my name. Too many options out there.


Like a kid in a candy store, you need to get one of each.

On the reloading, any of the major players out there have good kits. RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Dillon, Lyman, and others will sell you 99% of what you need to start reloading in one box. It is just when you want to get into the electronic powder measures, the power trimmers, and so on and so forth that it starts to get real expensive. On the powder measures I have been using the old ballance scale now for over 35 years with no problems. I also have the original powder dispenser that I bought with my Lyman kit at the same time and don't see a need to go to anything fancier. If I do decided to upgrade I'll go with a Dillon progressive press.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

bass2muskie said:


> I have the itch to reload its just very confusing on what to get. The more I have been looking at rifles the more the 308 is calling my name. Too many options out there.


I'm totally with you on that. I've hunted my entire life with a 30-06 and I'm not one to step it up with something bigger/faster/more kick just for the sake of 50 more yards, when my own ability to hit longer shots drops with my eyesight and how heavy I'm breathing by the time I get to shoot at deer or elk. As the choice of the military for half a century, the 308 really is a nice round. Really, out to 300 yards, it can do EVERYTHING a 30-06, 300 mag in all its forms, or really any other 30 caliber can do. So why not? Like I said before - I've been digging on getting one now for a year or two. If I had a grand burning a hole in my pocket today, I'd drive down to Cabelas and get one in the Winchester M70 right now. Put the best scope $300 could buy, and that'd be one heck of a hunting rifle.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Well this is my final decision. 308 not sure on brand and model. Leupold vx 3 scope. I've decided this is going to be a hunting rifle. If I can't get within 300 yards to make a shot the. I shouldn't be hunting in my opinion. I guess that's what archery hunting has done to me. I want to hunt my animal not just shoot it. I appreciate everyone's help and input. I have decided I'm going to start reloading for the 308 and my 6.5 CM. Within the next few weeks I will be getting the supplies and hopefully figure it out.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

bass2muskie said:


> I have the itch to reload its just very confusing on what to get..


Bax was nice enough that when I was in your situation took some time to show me his set up and showed me how to use it. Where are you located? I would be willing to bet that someone on here near you would be willing to do the same. I think you should read teh Lyman manual cover to cover at least once and combine that with the hands on experience and it all made much more sense to be effective and safe. Good luck with the new rifle. You might even find someone with a 308 setup to get you going on your first time and you can probably put off purchasing everything for a little bit, just by buying maybe some powder, bullets and brass from a prospective mentor. 
I would be more than willing except that I am likely far from you and all of my stuff is in storage for the next 4 months until our home is built, then the whole man cave basement will be ready for you!


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Eric, give me a call man I will show you anything you want to learn. Ive even got .308 dies and some military surplus .308 bullets if ya want to practice with those. Ive been reloading my .308 for years and have a few loads that shoot 1/2" groups at 100. Or if ya want to just come over and check out my setup I will show ya the stuff I think is essential for reloading.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

I will definitely take you up on that. I will give you a call when I get ready to start reloading.


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

bass2muskie said:


> I have the itch to reload its just very confusing on what to get. The more I have been looking at rifles the more the 308 is calling my name. Too many options out there.


The way I see this -- as a newbie myself -- is that there are people who've done this for years, shoot competitions, have too much money, or any combination thereof; so they use fancy dies and go all out on brass prep and such.

However, the key seems to be to have a decent (beam) scale and be real careful with your charges -- that's the key advantage you have over factory ammo. So, a reloading starter kit with a beam scale will have everything you need ....


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

SLCHunter said:


> The way I see this -- as a newbie myself -- is that there are people who've done this for years, shoot competitions, have too much money, or any combination thereof; so they use fancy dies and go all out on brass prep and such.
> 
> However, the key seems to be to have a decent (beam) scale and be real careful with your charges -- that's the key advantage you have over factory ammo. So, a reloading starter kit with a beam scale will have everything you need ....


That is how I started, but I just couldnt bring myself to use the beam scale, so I spent a whopping $25 on a digital scale that works pretty well. So, there are some pretty economical options also that can be a little step up. I think the key is to see what is out there and how they works so you can better make a decision on what you like on how you like it based on your intentions.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Ive got both a beam scale and a cheapo Frankfort Arsenal digital scale and to be honest, my loads are more consistent with my cheapo digital scale. I just make sure to zero it out every 5 loads or so which takes all of 2 seconds. My last loads I just went up and shot for my 6.5x284 had less than 30fps differential when shot across my chrono, which is pretty dang good for a cheap digital scale.


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