# Pistol Pete?



## Grandpa D

So how would you classify a Pistol Pete.
Fly or lure?
If you don't know what it is, it's a woolly bugger with a bead head and a spinning prop by the eye.
They are very effective for trout.
You can use them with a fly rod on moving water, or use a spinning rod and drag it behind a bubble.

Kind of a hybrid.


----------



## bowgy

Good question, but since they are sold in the fly bin at the sporting good stores I will call them a fly for now. :wink:


----------



## GaryFish

"I don't care what you call me - just don't call me late for dinner!"

Same thing. Who cares. It catches fish. Just like a chamois caddis - with a little bit of smelly jelly rubbed in. Is it bait, or a fly? ;-)


----------



## Packfish

Right- who cares- but in reality they really aren't a true fly in the traditional sense of the sport.


----------



## HighNDry

If you use it with a fly rod then it's a fly.
If you use it with a spinning outfit then it's a lure.

Ever fly fished with a real grasshopper hooked to your fly on artificial waters only? Is it fly fishing or bait fishing...or just plain wrong? That's the question.


----------



## Packfish

*Re: Pistol Pete?- live hopper*

It's bait fishing- don't care what rod you use------------- it's not wrong in any way shape or form and it's probably much more effective on smaller streams with the longer fly rod. - but it's not fly fishing- the rod doesn't dictate what you call it .


----------



## HighNDry

so let me understand. I'm on artificail waters only and I can't catch squat. I hook a real hopper over my imitation and pull in trout after trout. You say that aint wrong in any way shape or form? Next time come with me and you tell it to the fish cop!


----------



## GaryFish

I guess its all perspective. I was fishing once with utahtu on a small strem for native trout. We'd been fishing dry flies all day (of course we were!). Well, utahtu's fly got busted off because he can't cast worth a darn, so then I see him tie on a nymph. I said "If I'd known you were going to bait fish, I'd of thought twice about going fishing with you!" A nymph for a small stream native cutthroat? Good grief!

As for the hopper - You stick a live hopper on the fly and you are bait fishing. No grey area there. 

How' bout this one - I've heard people claim that fishing power bait is fine on artificial flies/lures only stretches because it isn't actually food - it is artificial.


----------



## Packfish

HighNDry said:


> so let me understand. I'm on artificail waters only and I can't catch squat. I hook a real hopper over my imitation and pull in trout after trout. You say that aint wrong in any way shape or form? Next time come with me and you tell it to the fish cop!


 Stop!!!!!!!!!!! when did the artificial H20 come into play ? - missed that one. 
Bait is bait- as is smelly jelly- can't use it on artificial water only.
But then that wasn't the question was it (0:

MY FAULT- DIDN'T READ THE BOTTOM OF YOUR EARLIER THREAD.


----------



## Packfish

How' bout this one - I've heard people claim that fishing power bait is fine on artificial flies/lures only stretches because it isn't actually food - it is artificiaL


I don't think so- I know smelly jelly is illegal- power bait should be also then.


----------



## HighNDry

No problem pack.

Has anyone seen any artificial soft plastic corn?

Anyone see the article in latest "Fly Fisherman" about all the fish that are eating the lost, soft platic lures? They eat it and it casues them to lose weight because the lure stays in their system for months. Some groups are trying to get the soft plastics outlawed. Bass anglers have been using the stuff.


----------



## flyguy7

There is no ambiguity in the matter. The proclamation clearly states any artificials that have any scent added to the lure or built into the lure are cleary illegal for afl waters. Any scent = illegal. That includes both impregnated soft plastics, powerbait, smelly jelly, and plastic corn.


----------



## Chaser

When "artificial" is mentioned, it almost always says "artificial FLIES and LURES only". Artificial "BAIT" is not mentioned there. Anyone care to argue that Powerbait is not "bait"? This whole discussion is ludicrous. Anyone who tries to justify using any form of bait, be it natural or artificial, and pass it off as a fly or lure, is asking for a ticket, and deserves one!


----------



## sinergy

As mention earlier on artificial only streams anything with artificial scent is illegal. Power Bait obviously has a artificial scent deeming it illegal. Anybody using or in possession of power bait, smelly jelly, or scented plastics on a artificial only stream is going to be cited. 

Also apart from the legal side we fisherman need to hold ourselves to a higher standard adding smelly jelly to a fly is just down right wrong. Not to say I don't use smelly jelly on jigs when ice fishing but fly fishing is about the fly adding an impure substance defeats the whole nature of fly fishing and is unethical to say the least. 

As far as the pistol pete goes my opinion is to classify it as spinner similar to a mepps or blue fox. The prop in the front spins creating a flash & vibration in the water just like a spinner only difference is instead of a wire body its dubbed with marabou. Id have to classify the pistol pete under the bait fishing category but that doesn't mean it cant be fished in artificial waters as long as no scents are added.


----------



## flyguy7

It is actually wrapped with chenille, not dubbed with Marabou. I look at it like it doesn't matter if it is a fly or a lure. If it works and its legal, fish the hell out of it! Using the same logic you could really classify all bead head nymphs as jigs. So, fish what you want and stick some hogs!


----------



## Flyfish4thrills

*Re: Pistol Pete? Read about G.E.M. Skues*

I really got a chuckle reading the posts on this topic. Only yesterday I read a brief history of flyfishing, and the story of G.E.M. Skues came to mind upon reading these posts. He wrote "Minor Tactics of the Chalk Stream" in 1910, where he championed the use of nymphs. At the time, it was extremely unsportsmanlike to fish with anything but dry flies. There is a paragraph from flyfishinghistory.com that I will use to summarize:

"Skues' ground-breaking ideas left him exposed to a great deal of criticism, which he bore with good grace. He was saved from serious personal attack partly because he was a lawyer with an assertive character and partly his new technique meant that he could catch fish under circumstances that defeated everyone else. But, on February 10th 1938, an extraordinary event occurred. The years prior to the war had seen a resurgence of dry-fly purism, and Skues and his supporters had come under heavy and sustained attack. In a typically British development, the committee of the Flyfisher's Club called a debate on the subject of the ethics of nymph fishing in chalk streams. The debate drew a huge audience that read like an honour-roll of British fly fishing. Despite the support arrayed in the dry fly corner, the only serious opposition to Skues was mounted by Sir Joseph Hall, in a closely reasoned argument which questioned Skues' somewhat partisan quoting of Halford. Ultimately, the field was left to Skues, then aged 80, who must have reflected that it was an odd thing for all this anger to be vented on the ethics of fishing a tiny fly under water, when the world stood at the gates of Armageddon itself. The position of the nymph was assured, although the ripples of the debate are still spreading, and many English chalk stream fisheries still have special nymphing regulations."

The sport will forever progress, and there will be people who will always want to stay in the "pure" form of the sport, even though it is far from the "pure" of 100 years earlier. Do you only flyfish with dries? Do you use Lefty's Deceivers with epoxy eyes? What about many man-made materials such as flashabou? What about foam poppers, spoon flies, plastic eggs, , etc., and the list goes on and on? Do you use a graphite rod or bamboo? Are you using horsehair, silkworm gut, mono or fluorocarbon for your leaders?

What is defined today as flyfishing and a fly will have changed 100 years from now, hopefully for the better. Are you the G.E.M. Skues of the sport, or the "purist" who would have fought him to stop flyfishing with nymphs?


----------



## Catherder

Grandpa D said:


> So how would you classify a Pistol Pete.
> Fly or lure?


I certainly am not much of a purist (more of a bass guy anymore), but all I know is that Petes are one of the most effective (flies/lures) I have ever used on small or medium alpine lakes, especially slowly kick trolled while fishing from a float tube or toon, using either a fly rod or spinning rod. I don't usually use a bubble myself. I like the black or olive "leech" pattern best. I guess since I was first turned onto Petes by a small Ft. Collins Colorado FLY shop owner, I might vote for flies.



sinergy said:


> Id have to classify the pistol pete under the bait fishing category but that doesn't mean it cant be fished in artificial waters as long as no scents are added.


How is fishing a Pete "bait fishing"? Of course they are legal in AFL waters. In fact I was using a Pete briefly on an AFL stream yesterday. Caught a couple of small browns on it. (And I was using my fly rod so it was "fly fishing" :wink



sinergy said:


> Also apart from the legal side we fisherman need to hold ourselves to a higher standard adding smelly jelly to a fly is just down right wrong. Not to say I don't use smelly jelly on jigs when ice fishing but fly fishing is about the fly adding an impure substance defeats the whole nature of fly fishing and is unethical to say the least.


Assuming the fishery isn't AFL, what is the ethical difference between putting attractant on jigs and doing it on flies?

Flyfish4thrills, +1000. That was a great post. You nailed it!


----------



## Packfish

Put smelly jelley on a bugger and fish it all day----------- tell me what the fly looks like the next day------ that's one reason I wouldn't use it- geesh I like what I tied not some matted dog do do .

Yes fly fishing has evolved- take a look at your rod vs heck just a few years ago- though I personally think the rods are going too quick just for the marketing of the " new and improved." is a fly a*But I would say that most of us know in our minds what nd what isn't*. And arguing that is really just for the sake of arguing. Once you added the prop it's not a fly. No problem with someone fishing it but it's not a fly. I don't care how someone fishes as long as it is legal-


----------



## GaryFish

> fly fishing is about the fly adding an impure substance defeats the whole nature of fly fishing and is unethical to say the least.


I'm not sure unethical is the word I would choose. Perhaps bad form, contrary, ghetto, or a passel of other terms. I know, I am the one who threw out the smelly jelly on a chamois caddis comment. Purely in jest.

We all know that pure gentlemen fly fishers fish only dry flies, fished up stream, with a bamboo rod. ;-) So by that, the pistol pete is not a dry fly, so it is not a fly at all! If you are going to be using those nasty streamers and nymphs, you might as well have a night crawler on the hook! ;-) --\O


----------



## .45

GaryFish said:


> If you are going to be using those nasty streamers and nymphs, you might as well have a night crawler on the hook! ;-) --\O


There is something wrong with that?? :?


----------



## GaryFish

.45 said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to be using those nasty streamers and nymphs, you might as well have a night crawler on the hook! ;-) --\O
> 
> 
> 
> There is something wrong with that?? :?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with it. Not at all. I've been known to put the bamboo and floating hackle away and opt for a spinning rod and worm hook now and then.


----------



## sinergy

Catherder said:


> How is fishing a Pete "bait fishing"? Of course they are legal in AFL waters. In fact I was using a Pete briefly on an AFL stream yesterday. Caught a couple of small browns on it. (And I was using my fly rod so it was "fly fishing" :wink


The reasoning for classifying a Pistol Pete under bait fishing is I consider it a spinner. The prop in front spins similar to the spoon on a spinner. I'll give that allot of circles consider the Pistol Pete to be a FLY basically a bugger with a prop but How many natural insects have a prop ??? LOL [/quote] 


Catherder said:


> Assuming the fishery isn't AFL, what is the ethical difference between putting attractant on jigs and doing it on flies?


Wow not even going to try to justify why it is wrong to put smelly Jelly on your flies while fly fishing. 


GaryFish said:


> I'm not sure unethical is the word I would choose. Perhaps bad form, contrary, ghetto, or a passel of other terms. I know, I am the one who threw out the smelly jelly on a chamois caddis comment. Purely in jest.


Didnt mean to single you out on your post was try to convey how wrong it is to put smelly jelly on your flies. 
contrary [kuhn-trair-ee]
-adjective
opposite in nature or character; diametrically or mutually opposed: contrary to fact; contrary propositions.

-noun
something that is contrary or opposite
to prove the contrary of a statement.

By saying its contrary to my statement is saying not putting smelly jelly on your flies is ethical &#8230; I pretty sure that was my point. :wink: 
passel[pas-uhl] 
-noun
a group or lot of indeterminate number: a passel of dignitaries
Not sure how this fits in ??? 
And yes I agree with you 100% ITS BAD FORM & GHETTO to put smelly jelly on your flies.


----------



## Catherder

First,


sinergy said:


> The reasoning for classifying a Pistol Pete under bait fishing is I consider it a spinner.


I see what you are saying, but I might submit to you that there is a significant difference between "bait fishing" and fishing with spinners and other hardware. Particularly in the regulatory realm. Also, there are quite a few items in my meager fly box that do not look like naturally occurring bugs yet still work very well and are definitely considered flies.



sinergy said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming the fishery isn't AFL, what is the ethical difference between putting attractant on jigs and doing it on flies?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow not even going to try to justify why it is wrong to put smelly Jelly on your flies while fly fishing.
Click to expand...

Why not? If it is so obvious, it should be easy. Sure, one can say that it is ghetto or bad form (and I would probably even agree with you for the most part) and if you are like Packfish and don't want to mess up your creations with slimy goo, that is fine. But wrong or unethical? (especially if one uses it readily on jigs? ,in I would assume, possibly the same fishery? ) If there is a regulatory issue such as a AFL fishery then sure, but I would submit that saying it is wrong to fly fish with attractant and then using attactant when ice fishing is not intellectually consistent. If the goal is to catch fish, then why not? You may say that it increases hooking mortality. It may a little, but if you are actively working a fly, it is still pretty unlikely there will be a problem. We bassers practically bathe in attractants and are as fanatical about C&R as flyflingers, and we don't seem to have a big problem with increased mortality in bass. I would say that these sentiments are simply attitudes that give certain flyfishers a "warm and fuzzy" feeling when they fish that they are somehow superior to the poor schmo chucking a worm and are not based in science or reason.


----------



## sinergy

Ok Ok Ill bite.

Fly fishing has always had the philosophy of a naturalist basically taking simple materials combining them and fishing them as naturally as possible. Attractants being clearly on far end of the unnatural spectrum Adding attractants such as smely jelly defiles the naturalist logic there for it being wrong. 

Ethics can also be defined as morals or principals now in sport were the principals are that of a naturalist adding attractants like smelly jelly would not follow this philosophy and be considered unethical. 

Were as a similar sport say Bass fishing were there is a different philosophy or principal on how to approach fishing and adding attractants to your bait is a common practice there for would be considered ethical. 

From my post dont know were you got the sediment that fly angers think they are superior to bait anglers I think you way off base with that statement considering what was posted.


----------



## Grandpa D

So when I'm fishing at Jordanelle using a fly rod and sinking line with a woolly bugger,
are you saying that adding smelly jelly to the bugger is unethical?
Maybe to you it is, but it sure helps me catch some very nice Smallies.

THREAD VEERING WARNING!!!!!!


----------



## sinergy

Grandpa D said:


> So when I'm fishing at Jordanelle using a fly rod and sinking line with a woolly bugger,
> are you saying that adding smelly jelly to the bugger is unethical?
> Maybe to you it is, but it sure helps me catch some very nice Smallies.
> 
> THREAD VEERING WARNING!!!!!!


If adding smelly jelly to your bugger helps you catch more fish then more power to you but that still doesn't prove its unethical. How is that any different then me saying "When I fish the Untiahs I use a fly rod & sinking line to cast out a treble hook & power bait"

Now tell me if you saw some one tubing a non AF lake casting out power bait on a fly rod that wouldnt be just be wrong... :?

THREAD VEERING WARNING!!!!!! ???

What you post that on my post how can you justify that ??? I answer the previous posts that were directed toward me and since the answers were not ones to your liking your waring to shut the thread down talk about self centered censorship.


----------



## sinergy

Catherder said:


> I see what you are saying, but I might submit to you that there is a significant difference between "bait fishing" and fishing with spinners and other hardware. Particularly in the regulatory realm. Also, there are quite a few items in my meager fly box that do not look like naturally occurring bugs yet still work very well and are definitely considered flies.


Your right for the most part there are allot flies and colors that I have no clue what people were thinking then they came up with them but the entire reasoning for classifying it as bait fishing is what types of rod & reel fishing are there... Bait & Fly ... If you can come up with another category Id consider the it but those are the only rod & reel classifications I know.


----------



## cheech

Smelly jelly on flies means you lack skill in presenting something without scent. No hard feelings, just the truth 


That being said, I lack skills with bass so I use Yum LPT craw scent on rubber jigs. No I do not throw jigs with a fly rod.


----------



## Catherder

OK, one more on this to wind it up for me.

First, as far as ethics and philosophy are concerned, we all have them and they are important to us, but they vary from angler to angler. For instance, some have the philosophy that any fishing except dry fly angling is barbaric. Others may not share your worldview on what flyfishing is all about, but still be ethical anglers that care about the resource. (and have fun fishing their own way)

Next,


sinergy said:


> From my post dont know were you got the sediment (sic)that fly angers think they are superior to bait anglers I think you way off base with that statement considering what was posted.


From what I've read of your other posts, I don't think you are this way. However, the same cannot be said for many other flyfishers. (even some of my friends) Ever visited UOTF? Which does get me back to the Pistol Pete fly/lure. Some purist flyflingers act derisively when hearing how well they work. It is beneath them to use one. However, try one on your flyrod the next time you are on the stream and the fish are acting sluggish. You might be pleasantly surprised.  (and you don't need to put smelly jelly on it either :wink: )


----------



## Flyfish4thrills

*Re: Pistol Pete? - Scent?*

Scent? 

How many of you tie on a new fly after you catch a fish with the first one? You are being unethical if you are not tying on a new fly. The old fly now has a very attractive scent on it: fish blood and fish smell. It also has lost most of the human scent from your hands, which also may include sunscreen, bugspray, food, sweat, saliva (if you lubricate your knots and cut the line with your teeth), and the smell from making the fly itself -- cements, material scent, etc.

I find that a fly that has caught a fish is 3 times as good as it was before, all because of its scent.

Personally, I never use manmade scents on flies, but have thought twice about doing it (there are some scents that have "nymph" flavor). I choose not to mainly because I find it messy, stinky, and I don't want it messing up my fly boxes. I don't find it less sporting. I use smelly jelly, etc. all the time when I bass fish.

Once again, some of you have your own special Church of the Fly Fisherman. If some other fly fisherman doesn't follow your accepted dogma, they are not true fly fisherman. And each of you have your own church.

I find it laughable to question the ethics of another fly fisherman simply because he/she doesn't fullfil your ethical dogma by using scent, a prop on the fly, foam, etc. All the while you use a graphite rod, mono or fluorocarbon tippet, uniform sink lines, polarized sunglasses, etc., etc., which all afford you a greater advantage against the fish than in previous years. It is a very selective choice on your parts of which new advances in the sport are ethical or not.

It is obvious that some of you would have been against G.E.M. Skues back in the day for using nymphs, and the poor bait fisherman are really at the bottom of your fishing caste system....the "untouchables".


----------



## campfire

So fooling a fishes sense of sight is "ethical" but fooling a fishes sense of smell is not "ethical"............sounds like sensory discrimination to me. :wink:


----------



## GaryFish

Wow. This has evolved quite a bit. Fun stuff actually. Great discussion on the mixing of philosophy and fishing and fly fishing and what not. And what are fishermen if they are not philosophers? I've not found a more optomistic bunch than fishermen - every cast, every turn of the reel, every drift through a riffle or retrieve of a lure is founded in hope of something you actually have very little control if it happens. It really is quirky and a little crazy when you start to overthink it.

But fishing feeds the soul. It connects. It inspires. And when the stars align and the line goes tight and the rod starts pulsing with the pull of a fish, it excites and brings a smile. It is pure. It really is, and not to sound too fruity with this, it really is beautiful. 

So back to the question - My view is that once you add some spinning metal, the fly becomes a lure. So pistol pete is not a fly.

But that's just me. But then again, I've fished worms, live hoppers, spinners, and power bait off the end of my fly rod. Growing up, a fly rod was THE choice for fishing hoppers and worms on small streams - it was a stream rod - even if it never cast a fly. Simply because it was a superior instrument for fishing small streams. I also have my purest days. Usually one day a year or so. I'll find a stream with native trout and break out the bamboo rod, and fish only dry flies - and those are usually the royal wulff or elk hair caddis. It is a wonderful experience. It is pure. 

And it all - is fishing, which makes it great.


----------



## wyogoob

GaryFish said:


> Wow................................
> 
> So back to the question - My view is that once you add some spinning metal, the fly becomes a lure. So pistol pete is not a fly.
> 
> But that's just me. But then again, I've fished worms, live hoppers, spinners, and power bait off the end of my fly rod. Growing up, a fly rod was THE choice for fishing hoppers and worms on small streams - it was a stream rod - even if it never cast a fly. Simply because it was a superior instrument for fishing small streams. I also have my purest days. Usually one day a year or so. I'll find a stream with native trout and break out the bamboo rod, and fish only dry flies - and those are usually the royal wulff or elk hair caddis. It is a wonderful experience. It is pure.
> 
> And it all - is fishing, which makes it great.


+1

I tried to stay out of this but here I go.

The Pistol Pete has been around forever. I used them in the early 60s. The spinner moves some when new but any little bend or tiny piece of trash on the shank renders the blade useless (but I think some fish like it that way i.e. bluegills and grayling)

I also grew up with bamboo. We used them for everything; carp, panfish, bass, cats, walleyes, trout, salmon, lures, jigs, bait and flies. Like Gary says they are an all-purpose fishing tool and I own more of them than I should.

All should note that many states, Wyoming for example, classify the use or addition of attractants as live bait.

From the Wyoming Fishing Proclamation:
Artificial Flies and Lures
means manmade flies and lures. Artificial lures include spoons,
spinners and plugs made of metal, plastic, wood and other non-edible
materials, or plastic products made to resemble worms, eggs, fish
and other aquatic organisms. Artificial flies includes flies, streamers,
jigs, and poppers tied from such materials as thread, feathers, hair
and tinsel. Artificial flies and lures does not include living or dead
organisms or edible parts thereof, natural or prepared organic food
stuffs, or chemical attractants.

Bait
means living or dead organisms or edible parts thereof, natural or
prepared organic food, and chemical attractants used in the taking
of fish.

So be careful in Wyoming. If you add Smelly Jelly to a fly there you are bait fishing.

Utah says:
Artificial fly means a fly made by the method known as fly tying. Artificial fly does not mean a weighted jig, lure, spinner, attractor blade or bait.

Bait means a digestible substance, including worms, cheese, salmon eggs, marshmallows or manufactured baits including human-made items that are chemically treated with food stuffs, chemical fish attractants or feeding stimulants.


----------



## Grandpa D

One thing that I will never do is tie a Pistol Pete on the end of my Bamboo Fly Rod!
I have been known to use a nymph with it though.
Sorry, but I just didn't know better.


----------



## Grandpa D

sinergy said:


> Grandpa D said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when I'm fishing at Jordanelle using a fly rod and sinking line with a woolly bugger,
> are you saying that adding smelly jelly to the bugger is unethical?
> Maybe to you it is, but it sure helps me catch some very nice Smallies.
> 
> THREAD VEERING WARNING!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> If adding smelly jelly to your bugger helps you catch more fish then more power to you but that still doesn't prove its unethical. How is that any different then me saying "When I fish the Untiahs I use a fly rod & sinking line to cast out a treble hook & power bait"
> 
> Now tell me if you saw some one tubing a non AF lake casting out power bait on a fly rod that wouldnt be just be wrong... :?
> 
> THREAD VEERING WARNING!!!!!! ???
> 
> What you post that on my post how can you justify that ??? I answer the previous posts that were directed toward me and since the answers were not ones to your liking your waring to shut the thread down talk about self centered censorship.
Click to expand...

Sinergy, I hope that you didn't think that I was directing any of my statements toward you.
I'm just having some fun here with everyone.
I don't even care what a Pistol Pete is.
Just trying to get some folks thinking.
As far as my thread veering comment goes, I think that most folks knew that it was just having fun with the thread.
Veer all that you want, just have fun,
Grandpa D. -*|*- -*|*- -*|*-


----------



## GaryFish

Grandpa D said:


> One thing that I will never do is tie a Pistol Pete on the end of my Bamboo Fly Rod!
> I have been known to use a nymph with it though.
> Sorry, but I just didn't know better.


You desecrated your cane rod with a nymph? I'll just have to confiscate that from you. One who commits such crimes is not worthy of a split cane rod. PM me your address and I'll come by and you can forfeit it to me. ;-) I'll fish nymphs and even bait from my graphite rod. But never from the bamboo.

Though, I must share my worst desecration of my fly rod. Forgive father for I have sinned. Back when I lived in Nebraska, we picked up some snacks and pizza and took the kids to a local blue gill pond for a picnic. The kids did well with the barbie/snoopy poles, fishing worms under bobbers and we were catching plenty of blue gill. Well, as younger kids do, we discoverd that cheese puffs attract the ducks. And then as the ducks were enjoying the cheese puffs, the carp came up and started sucking the cheesepuffs. So I thought that might be fun to lay into a 10 pound carp. But without any weight in the cheese puff, I couldn't cast it. So I took out my fly rod (graphite fenwick) and tied on a snelled, bait holder hook, stuck a cheese puff on it, and cast it out. Well, the carp just sucked the cheese puff right off the hook. I needed a different plan. Then I saw a half-chewed pizza crust thrown pack in the box. So I took a piece, dipped it int the water, and rolled it into a dough ball and squeezed it onto the hook. That worked like a charm. One cast and the carp took the pizza crust dough ball. As soon as I set the hook, that 10 pound carp took off in the opposite direction. I was into my backing in about 10 seconds. It was the hardest fighting fish I'd ever hooked in fresh water. I was finally able to break him off before he broke my 5 weight rod. But what a fish. All because I sinned, and fished a dough ball with my fly rod. What is my pennence Father?


----------



## Packfish

Some hunt with a bow,some with a black and powder, some with a rifle- some with all of them- great.
Some would never hunt with a gun that hunt with a bow and so and so forth. Said Horton the Elephant.
Same with fly fishing- I grew up with a bait casting rod, a spinning rod and a metal fly rod. Never looked down on anyone fishing any way. But I fly fish 90% of the time now. My choice period. I nymph, streamer, dry fly- what ever the situation dictates.
But I believe , just like what previously was already said_- you're putting smelly jelly on a fly because you can't present in a manner that will entice the fish into striking or you don't want to spend the time figuring it out.
I don't have any problem with someone doing this----- it's thier life, their time, their decision and if it's legal- then fine.
I choose not to now and don't classify it fly fishing when you or when you use a pistol pete. I have used a pistol pete on a fly rod- but it wasn't fly fishing- it was just fishing - which was fine. But years ago I made them way before a Pistol Pete and we called them PROP jobs.


----------



## Catherder

This thread has been most enlightening.



Grandpa D said:


> One thing that I will never do is tie a Pistol Pete on the end of my Bamboo Fly Rod!
> I have been known to use a nymph with it though.
> Sorry, but I just didn't know better.


That is my problem. I just have a junky graphite flyrod, so I degrade myself with gimmicky things like pistol petes. I'm such a loooser! :wink: If I upgrade to a nice cane rod I will be cleansed of these white trash tendencies.

Seriously, I have been wanting to get back into stream flyfishing more and recent trips have reminded me how much fun it is. And I think we can all agree that whatever we find as fun in our fishing pursuits is what it is all about. So who knows, I might be almost "Pure" myself before too long.

One last thing. The only times I have actually smelly jellied a fly was when I was on big stillwater like Strawberry and I had my jigging/bassin hardware with me along with the fly stuff. Surprisingly, the fly didn't spontaneously combust when I lathered it up. :wink:


----------



## GaryFish

So what if the Smelly Jelly folks decided to make fly floatant?


----------



## Grandpa D

GaryFish said:


> So what if the Smelly Jelly folks decided to make fly floatant?


Woundn't be a problem.
Purest dry flyers don't use floatant, do they?


----------



## sinergy

OK My last post on this subject I think Ive spoke with enough people to confirm my postings. Ive asked several people while fly fishing and in different forums outside of the Utah ones and for the most part all agree while fly fishing adding attractants like smelly jelly is wrong and unethical. BUT again these are just opinions not facts. 

Not purist so I cant answer for them but I admit I do use floatant. The hook adds weight to the fly so does water absorption. Naturally insects and animals secrete enzymes to counter this. As far as I know foatant just allows your flies to float like they would in nature. 

Not sure what animals secrete garlic or cheese scent maybe the infamous Berkley Power Jelly fish .. :lol: LOL

I THREAD VEERING WARNING MY SELF


----------



## Grandpa D

One thing for sure.
Fly Fishing folks are sure passionate about their sport, arn't they!

By the way,
I fished at Meadow Creek Pond last night and used a Pistol Pete type of thingy that I "tied" and slammed the little SNITS.
Fly or lure, it doesn't mater to me. That thing sure caught a bunch fish!
No, I didn't use my fly rod. :shock: :lol:


----------



## sinergy

Just out of curosity if one were curious to try to fish a Pistol Pete Were would one go to buy a pistol pete  8)


----------



## GaryFish

I've seen them in the fishing section at Walmart.


----------



## Packfish

GaryFish said:


> I've seen them in the fishing section at Walmart.


The ? though is- are they in the New Fly fishing section in the Logan Walmart- or are they in the fishing section.

Who knew that Walmart would be the deciding vote on this ???


----------



## GaryFish

Packfish said:


> Who knew that Walmart would be the deciding vote on this ???


Walmart IS Big Brother.
Sam Walton and George Orwell were fishing buddies.


----------



## Grandpa D

sinergy said:


> Just out of curosity if one were curious to try to fish a Pistol Pete Were would one go to buy a pistol pete  8)


You can find Pistol Petes at Sportsman's and in Roy at Anglers Den.
At Wal-Mart, you can buy a combo pack that has several different patterns in it.

I have seen them in Woolly Bugger, Leach, Renegade and other streamer patterns.
Fish them very slow, about 6' behind a full water bubble.


----------



## Catherder

Grandpa D said:


> I fished at Meadow Creek Pond last night and used a Pistol Pete type of thingy that I "tied" and slammed the little SNITS.
> Fly or lure, it doesn't mater to me. That thing sure caught a bunch fish!
> No, I didn't use my fly rod. :shock: :lol:


Cool, and I bet you didn't need to use smelly jelly to elicit strikes either. 



sinergy said:


> Just out of curosity if one were curious to try to fish a Pistol Pete Were would one go to buy a pistol pete  8)


Down here in Happy Valley, they are available at Wal Mart, K mart, Sportsmans Warehouse, Cabelas, and some of the smaller shops. They are also available online here;

http://www.pistolpeteflies.com/

I might humbly point out that the company that makes them names itself Hi-Country FLIES Inc. :shock: -()/>-

Not that it would matter much to a purist. -#&#*!-


----------



## flyfisher117

i dont even get the pistol pete...lol


----------

