# Antelope Island/ Colorado Buck



## sdchargers (Aug 29, 2011)

Rumor has it that Colorado Buck will be in town to host and film a mule deer hunt on Antelope Island this weekend.. Looks like the parts of the island will be closed while Mossback and Colorado Buck guide the rich to record book Mulies.. o-||


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

The governors tag holder can't hunt on antelope island. The auction tag holder for the island has already killed so you may want to check your sources.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

MONEY TALKS..And we Old Farts who have been hunting in Utah for over 45 years can't draw a stinking TAG!! Something WRONG HERE!!I watched this guy go and kill a Monster Buck out on the Books.. Where the hell he get his money? As for MOSS Back! HAD ENOUGH OF DOYLE AND HIS BUSH BEATERS DOWN ON THE PAVHANT


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## sdchargers (Aug 29, 2011)

My sources are good, I maybe a little mis informed about which tag the hunter actually has.. But I do know that Colorado Buck will be on the Island this weekend filming a mule deer hunt.. And I know that the auction tag holder harvested a 271" buck last weekend with Mossback...


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Can't wait for the pics.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Wasn't there one auction tag, and one tag through the draw?


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks like the owner/shooter of the Spider Bull pulled the triger on this Antelope Island 271 buck last week.

http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2012/11/13/denny-austad-antelope-island-buck-271-inch-mule-deer/


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The bigger question to me, is who needs a guide to kill a monster bucky on Antelope Island? That's a big buck for sure. I am now, and always have been opposed to the deer shoot on the Island. I would hope that B & C won't accept it. SCI - sure. It is nothing short of a confined shooting operation managed by the State of Utah. 

But hey. Nice buck.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Sweet buck, good for Denny! 8)


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> The bigger question to me, is who needs a guide to kill a monster bucky on Antelope Island? That's a big buck for sure. I am now, and always have been opposed to the deer shoot on the Island. I would hope that B & C won't accept it. SCI - sure. It is nothing short of a confined shooting operation managed by the State of Utah.
> 
> But hey. Nice buck.


Yeah...great buck. Utah should also find a loophole that would allow them to auction off tags to Denny in our National Parks too!

The thing that sticks in my craw is the idea of auctioning off tags to the highest bidder...


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

wyoming2utah said:


> The thing that sticks in my craw is the idea of auctioning off tags to the highest bidder...


You should have put the popcorn at the end of your post! (I will leave it at that)

Auction tags *"HELP"* keep our sport alive. I agree with them but not in the Antelope Island case.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

sdchargers said:


> My sources are good, I maybe a little mis informed about which tag the hunter actually has.. But I do know that Colorado Buck will be on the Island this weekend filming a mule deer hunt.. And I know that the auction tag holder harvested a 271" buck last weekend with Mossback...





sdchargers said:


> Looks like the parts of the island will be closed while Mossback and Colorado Buck guide the rich to record book Mulies..


I doubt being "rich" had much to do with the guy who was lucky enough to draw the tag that will be hunted this weekend. On that particular your sources were very misinformed. I don't know the guy and don't know if he has money or not, but in this instance it was just luck of the draw.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't think it's fair to keep the public draw guy out till after the auction tag holder gets his buck. That's not right. As for the 271" buck, he killed it right off the Ranch... it was laying in the tall grass the day before and my friend photographed him from a distance of 25 yards before it stood up and gave him these images.

I think he said something to the effect that he fed it from his hand...


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> The bigger question to me, is who needs a guide to kill a monster bucky on Antelope Island? That's a big buck for sure. I am now, and always have been opposed to the deer shoot on the Island. I would hope that B & C won't accept it. SCI - sure. It is nothing short of a confined shooting operation managed by the State of Utah.
> 
> But hey. Nice buck.


They don't need a guide, but the certain guide will do anything to be able to get his stamp/logo on that photo of a huge deer for advertising. But I don't blame denny who shot/bought the animal, he can do what he wants with his money, Blame the DWR! I think this reflects bad on the hunting community having a canned hunt and I know they like the money from the tags that go towards the island and conservation But sometimes you have to weigh the costs of what you're doing and where does it end?


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## sdchargers (Aug 29, 2011)

Dahlmer said:


> sdchargers said:
> 
> 
> > My sources are good, I maybe a little mis informed about which tag the hunter actually has.. But I do know that Colorado Buck will be on the Island this weekend filming a mule deer hunt.. And I know that the auction tag holder harvested a 271" buck last weekend with Mossback...
> ...


Dahlmer.. I guess neither of us knows what we're talking about


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

WOW! Congratulations to the hunter. Nice buck!

Unfortunately this is the way the future of hunting has been headed, and is continuing to be headed. Money for inches.  

I am not opposed to guided hunting, but really...... a guide for Antelope Island? :roll: 

What's next? Hunting in Yellowstone National Park? o-||


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

TopofUtahArcher said:


> I don't think it's fair to keep the public draw guy out till after the auction tag holder gets his buck. That's not right.


Yeah...it is bad enough that we even have auctions--talk about slapping the North American Wildlife Conservation Model right in the face--but, it is even worse that they don't even try to make things equal between the two tag holders!


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Just another LE hunt in Utah. What's the problem?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

JERRY said:


> What's next? Hunting in Yellowstone National Park? o-||


Hah...yeah, can you say the Sportsmen's Heritage Act? o-||

Now there is a can of worms!


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Someday I'm gonna try to genetically alter some moo cows to grow massive horns on their heads and then charge guys like Denny $50,000 to come shoot one.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Not impressed at all...

INCREDIBLE BUCK...

But the fact that he had to hire a guide service (let alone those d**che canoes in Mossback) is just beyond me. For what it's worth, I'm more impressed with a 14 year old kid who shot a 2 point, and cleaned it himself, after searching for HOURS to even find it to shoot in the first place, than I am this kill.


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## UtahMountainMan (Jul 20, 2010)

My thoughts on this are:

1 - It is an AMAZING buck
2 - I am not impressed at all by the skill or amount of hard work in the field required by the hunter to shoot this buck (compared to, for instance, a guy who backpacks in 6 miles solo and camps out for 7 days to shoot a decent buck)
3 - If the hunter has the money and the desire to buy these hunts and guides then that is his choice and I respect the fact that he has a passion for hunting at his age
4 - If I was his age and had his money I would also love to buy an Antelope Island type tag
5 - I hope the money he paid for this tag truly goes to the conservation efforts and to help wildlife in the state of Utah. Great donation on his part if it does...

I dont see why he needed Mossback to guide him to this buck since others have taken pictures of him recently from the road. But if he has the money to hire them I dont have a problem with it.


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## HighmtnFish (Jun 3, 2010)

An amazing buck, but its Prostitution at its finest. The state sells these auction tags to the highest bidder, then they hire a guide to go and locate the biggest rack in the area. it is just like the state is pimping off our wildlife. It feels morally and ethically wrong.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

HighmtnFish said:


> it is just like the state is pimping off our wildlife. It feels morally and ethically wrong.


It isn't "like the state is pimping off our wildlife." The State IS pimping wildlife. The AI hunts - all of them - deer, bison, and bighorn sheep are all confined shooting operations. They are the equivalent of high fence hunts. The deer on the Island are tame. There is NO honor at all in shooting this buck. It is a selfish and cowardice act. I don't care how much money is involved. It is not hunting. At all. At least with the bison, they admit it is a livestock herd. The bighorn hunts make me even more upset than the deer hunts. The sheep were planted there to serve ONLY as brood stock for developing sheep in other parts of the state and when planted, it was on condition of no hunting.

I usually am not all that critical of how others enjoy to hunt. As long as laws are followed, I'm pretty much of "whatever makes you happy" kind of guy. But when it comes to Antelope Island, I am TOTALLY opposed to hunting there, hunters that go out there, guides that guide them, and anyone that endorses any of it disrespect all that is great about our hunting heritage.

The next stop - and this is not an exaggeration at all - when one of the elephants or zebras or lions or giraffes at Hogle Zoo get ready to die, why not haul them out to Antelope Island and let someone pay $30K to shoot them? Unless they are an archery hunter. Then just close the Zoo for a couple of hours for the hunt. Urrrrrggggggg.

In my view, any "hunter" that gets giddy about a deer they take off the Island and then has the audacity to mount that "trophy" probably has his Labrador's head hanging over the fireplace as well and is a total girly man and an affront to everything good and honorable about hunting. And they probably don't like bacon. And if that happens, the terrorists win.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Wow how did I miss all this?


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Lonetree said:


> Wow how did I miss all this?


Zorro only takes care of the people's problems one at a time, stay focused! 8)


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

The only thing that bothers me is that some of these people have the audacity to call themselves "HUNTERS". They are "SHOOTERS" and NOTHING more.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

stillhunterman said:


> Lonetree said:
> 
> 
> > Wow how did I miss all this?
> ...


 :mrgreen:


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> HighmtnFish said:
> 
> 
> > it is just like the state is pimping off our wildlife. It feels morally and ethically wrong.
> ...


 :shock: What a great shoot-from-the-hip rapid-fire response. Post of the month. (it was the bacon thingie that won me over)


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > HighmtnFish said:
> ...


+1
Except it was the "girly man" that won me over! 8)


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## sdchargers (Aug 29, 2011)

Hmmmm, I guess my sources were right.... Thanks for playing Dahlmer 8)


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

_/O _/O _/O Nice bucky. One must take tremendous pride and accomplishment in shooting a tame deer off of a State Park preserve. Such a proud moment for hunters everywhere. _/O _/O


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Wow, another awesome buck. Congrats to the hunter.


btw Gary...If you think for a second the bison out there are tame, I will provide you a horse to come ride with me next year in the annual round up. I have the privilage of riding on the aggresive team and get a close up first hand POV on how "tame" the bison are out there. You clearly don't have a clue of what you are talking about...carry on.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Shane...thats a bit of a stretch...deer are not bison in any fashion....in the wild or penned up.

Its a canned hunt....if you've got the $$ have at it, but I'd rather see them raise the entrance fee $1 or $2 and do away with these tags.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

We'll have to just disagree. Sure, they get crazy during the round up. Any HUGE animal like a bison will get testy when chased by horsemen, trucks, and helicopters. Heck, range cattle will do the same. They just aren't as big and strong. But to say the bison are wild? Try to get as close to the bison in the Henry's on your horse and then get back to me. The Antelope Island bison herd IS a livestock herd. As you know they are rounded up each year, tested, vaccinated, and many are sold off to other bison ranches or for meat. And a few that are too old to sell off are ear tagged and turned back out of the corrals for hunters to shoot. As guided by a park ranger. The bison on the island are livestock. Period. Tame? Perhaps not. But certainly not a wild herd either. Big, huge, powerful, and testy when pushed - absolutely. But wild? No.

The deer on the island? Absolutely tame. I've been at the ranch several times and had deer within feet of us - not yards - feet. Arm's length kind of close. In my time on the Island, the bighorns have seemed the most "wild" of any of the animals out there. Followed by the pronghorn. But the deer? Absolutely not wild. And the bison? not tame, but not wild either. 

And for the "hunter" - It is a really nice buck. I'm sure he had a great time and has a great trophy. Both hunters took the deer legally and within the rules placed before them. I personally would never participate in this shoot, nor would I have the animal mounted as some kind trophy honoring a great hunt of a wild animal. But in this case, I don't fault the hunters for working within the system. The yay-hoos that legalized this thing in the first place are the unethical, irresponsible, anti-conservation, infected festering scabs that have no love of nature, wildlife, or anything good in the world. I'd love to organize a "family dog hunt" in the yards of every single one of the individuals that politically made it happen. And then have the heads of their family dogs mounted and hung in the house and senate chambers at the capitol building. And Mossback and Colorado Bucks can guide and film the hunts for all I care.


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

JERRY said:


> What's next? Hunting in Yellowstone National Park? o-||


Sign me up!!


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

CALL YOURSELF A HUNTER? Lets see. Did you get all zeroed in? You check the wind speed? You have Doyle pack a shooting bench for ya?And a Chair? You shoot him at 3000 yards. And any video cash coming your way?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I have two question for the Antelope Island deer shooters:
How many rocks did you throw at the deer first, to get them to move far enough away so not to get powder burns? 
and second,
How far did you haul the deer from the Ranch House so you could get a more "wild" photo opp?


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

GaryFish said:


> I have two question for the Antelope Island deer shooters:
> How many rocks did you throw at the deer first, to get them to move far enough away so not to get powder burns?
> and second,
> How far did you haul the deer from the Ranch House so you could get a more "wild" photo opp?


1 rock, 2 feet.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I just want to know if doyle is upset that his stamp is smaller than Colorado bucks stamp on the photo. That's all those dudes care about, fighting over an animal that big for advertising. I can't wait to see the episode to see how they dressed up the "hunt"


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

Kid Rock is in Doyle's possy now? ? ? :shock:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

gdog said:


> Shane...thats a bit of a stretch...deer are not bison in any fashion....in the wild or penned up.
> 
> Its a canned hunt....if you've got the $$ have at it, but I'd rather see them raise the entrance fee $1 or $2 and do away with these tags.


I wasn't commenting on the deer. I was only responding to Gary's opinion that the bison are tame or domesticated...which he knows nothing about.

I spend quite a bit of time on the island, and it is true, the deer aren't as wild as what we are used to. I don't think anybody (including the hunter) would claim this hunt is difficult in anyway. To my understanding Mossback aren't really quiding anything, but filming the hunts and tagging along. Really, who cares?

I do find it quite douchy to bag on someones buck because you don't "like" the people in the pic. :roll:

I am pretty sure the whole point of the hunt was to raise money for the island. Correct me if I am wrong but all the money goes back into the Island. Right?


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

if it was just an island thing than why are there guys trying to get their cut? whether it be for a stamp on a photo, or using the footage to sell hunting videos and promote tehir service? Just more prostitution of the wildlife. If its just for the island, than have the manager out there take the hunters out and be done with it. Lots of vultures wanting a cut of this hunt and probably the same guys who helped lobby for it.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

From the Standard Examiner.....

"The permits for the fall 2011 hunts generated $283,671 in revenue for state parks, _*a portion* of that going to improve island habitat._

The same permits for fall 2012 generated $215,000 in revenue, Loyola said." (Deena Loyola, State Parks and Recreation communications coordinator)

How much is "a portion"?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Gary, again, you know nothing about the bison out there. Yes they (females and calves) are rounded up for vaccinations and auction. Tame? Absolutely not. Many of the older males get rounded up, but we don't go after them specifically. No need to vaccinate and they tear the corrals up.

There are a group of cowboys that come down to help with the round up from South Dakota. They do the same type of round of with a free range herd of bison there every year. That herd is much larger than the AI herd. Having spent time with these guys BSing and learning how to move bison, they tell me the AI herd is much more aggressive than any of the other herds they move. They introduced us to .22 bird shot in our pistols to shoot the bison on the nose when being charged during the round up, or to use to help "convince" them the direction they need to go. This is still small beans when trying to turn a running group from heading south to north. 

Your logic is silly. I see coyotes all over the island...many times only 20-30 yards away...are they tame? Let your kids try to pet one. Your logic reminds me of the the idiot tourists that visit Yellowstone and "assume" the bison and elk are tame. _(O)_


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

gdog said:


> How much is "a portion"?


$0.01

-DallanC


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

gdog said:


> From the Standard Examiner.....
> 
> "The permits for the fall 2011 hunts generated $283,671 in revenue for state parks, _*a portion* of that going to improve island habitat._
> 
> ...


Good question. Really though, I just hate to see it dumped into the general fund.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

bwhntr,

how is herding bison the same as hunting them? tryin to understand the logic between getting close enough for a shot to animals that are use to people versus chasing them down with horses, of course they'll act nasty if chased down by a horse, that doesn't mean they aren't pretty easy to kill on the island.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> gdog said:
> 
> 
> > From the Standard Examiner.....
> ...


From the Trib.....

Hunting on Antelope Island

"The first mule deer and bighorn sheep hunts on Antelope Island were held in the fall of 2011. Two permits for deer and two for sheep were provided; one each to the highest bidder at an auction and one of each to a general public drawing.
The 2011 mule deer tag on Antelope Island went for $265,000. The bighorn tag sold for $50,000. Permits for 2012 sold for $160,000 and $55,000, respectively. _*Ninety percent of the money goes back to Antelope Island State Park for wildlife habitat improvements on the island, according to the Division of Wildlife Resources."*_

If the park is in that dire straights for money...bump the admission fee up a $1. How many people are going to turn around at the gate having to pay $10, instead of $9. Numbers found state approximately 400,000 people visit the park each year...theres another $400k for the fund......


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

What's so special about Colorado Buck anyway? I don't watch hunting shows, but this guy seems a little fruity to me. Amazing how some folks can gain a following.Guess he appeales to a "certain" crowd.-------SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

JERRY said:


> WOW! Congratulations to the hunter. Nice buck!
> 
> Unfortunately this is the way the future of hunting has been headed, and is continuing to be headed. Money for inches.
> 
> ...


In a way this reminds me of the Evanston WY mental hospital buck thread of a few years ago.

My observation on the island has been that the deer are tame.

Not much to hunt in Yellowstone, wolves and bears ate everything. jk


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> bwhntr,
> 
> how is herding bison the same as hunting them? tryin to understand the logic between getting close enough for a shot to animals that are use to people versus chasing them down with horses, of course they'll act nasty if chased down by a horse, that doesn't mean they aren't pretty easy to kill on the island.


With that logic...armed with a rifle, What animal ISN'T difficult to kill?


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

How about a chukar hunt on the island? I'd be game for that :O||:


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

gdog said:


> How about a chukar hunt on the island? I'd be game for that :O||:


+1

$10 a bird. Probably would be cheaper for me.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

gdog said:


> From the Trib.....
> 
> Hunting on Antelope Island
> 
> ...


Awesome. That is a good chunk of change for killing a couple of deer/sheep a year. Good to know the lion's share goes back into the island.

Right now it is $9 a vehicle to visit the island. At an extra $1 per vehicle you would have to increase the traffic to another 215,000 vehicles a year. lol Selling a couple deer tags makes much more sense.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

gdog said:


> How about a chukar hunt on the island? I'd be game for that :O||:


They are all over the island too. Of course you don't have to go far in Utah to find plenty of partridge.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

All animals are easily killed with a rifle, the idea of hunting is to hunt, or in other words find, the animal. Some hunts, or finds, are much easier than others. I personally would not chose this hunt for myself, but I am thankful that I didn't have to share my mountain with this guy or his motley entourage. Live and let live. What reason is there not to kill the tame deer on the island? They are an asset and need to be managed just like any other game animal in the state. I would be interested to see how many of you would really turn down this tag if it was offered to you? I bet 50% of those who made negative comments would be out there in a second. Nothing wrong with that either, its perfectly legal. Maybe just a little bit of envy and hypocricy might exist on this thread, no?----------SS


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Springville Shooter said:


> All animals are easily killed with a rifle, the idea of hunting is to hunt, or in other words find, the animal. Some hunts, or finds, are much easier than others. I personally would not chose this hunt for myself, but I am thankful that I didn't have to share my mountain with this guy or his motley entourage. Live and let live. What reason is there not to kill the tame deer on the island? They are an asset and need to be managed just like any other game animal in the state. I would be interested to see how many of you would really turn down this tag if it was offered to you? I bet 50% of those who made negative comments would be out there in a second. Nothing wrong with that either, its perfectly legal. Maybe just a little bit of envy and hypocricy might exist on this thread, no?----------SS


+1000

Take it for what it is, selling off of replenishable assets. Nothing more, nothing less. I for one would love to shoot a buck like that are you kidding me!! wow. Would I consider it a "true hunt" perhaps not but its still one hell of an example of the species and more then worthy of mounting. Out of respect for the animal if for no other reason.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Right now it is $9 a vehicle to visit the island. At an extra $1 per vehicle you would have to increase the traffic to another 215,000 vehicles a year. lol Selling a couple deer tags makes much more sense.


Its probably a bit more then that.....with the average UT family of 12 kids, the 400K individual visitors only accounts for 33K cars being charged $9.... :mrgreen:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> I wasn't commenting on the deer. I was only responding to Gary's opinion that the bison are tame or domesticated...which he knows nothing about.


I know quite a bit more about the herd than you think.

Not opinion. The Antelope Island bison herd is a domesticated, managed, livestock herd. 
That is not a matter of opinion. That is fact. As a participant in the round up, you know that.

I'm not saying they are tame. I'm not saying they are aren't aggressive during the round-up. They clearly are. But it is not a "wild" herd. It is a livestock herd. And the bison shoot is nothing but a confined shooting operation on a domesticated bison herd. 
Info on the Bison auction:
http://static.stateparks.utah.gov/docs/ ... er2012.pdf

And the South Dakota "Free Ranging" herd at Custer State Park is also a livestock herd. Mean and aggressive and difficult to move as it is, it is still a domesticated livestock herd.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

gdog said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > Right now it is $9 a vehicle to visit the island. At an extra $1 per vehicle you would have to increase the traffic to another 215,000 vehicles a year. lol Selling a couple deer tags makes much more sense.
> ...


 :mrgreen: Good point!


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

sdchargers said:


> Hmmmm, I guess my sources were right.... Thanks for playing Dahlmer 8)


I never argued that Doyle & Colorado Buck would not be present. Only that they were there to guide some "rich" dude to a buck. You have yet to present any evidence to indicate that the gentlemen that took the deer paid a penny to either. If his situation is anything like that of the draw tag holder last year then he just gave them the video rights to tag along for the "hunt".

A lot of assumptions in your statement with no evidence to back any of it up.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

As for the "guides". Just say they got no cash for the hunt - only the right to make and sell a video of a hunt. Can anyone explain to me the appeal of a video of someone shooting a tame deer inside a State Park? Deer that will, quite literally, eat out of a person's hand? You'd have to be a pretty big Delta Bravo to even attempt pulling that one off. That's not a hunting movie. That is a 20/20 special on a slaughter house, or hidden camera footage of the animal shelter on "going to sleep" day.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Talk about DB! This had got to be the most ridicules thread ever. Sheesh Gary.


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

GaryFish said:


> HighmtnFish said:
> 
> 
> > it is just like the state is pimping off our wildlife. It feels morally and ethically wrong.
> ...


AMEN!!


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

I have come to the conclusion that there are two types of people that enjoy our sport. There are hunters, the guys and gals who actually get out there and use their skill to hunt an animal, whether it is for meat or for the trophy they are both REAL hunters. And then there are the rich folk who wish they could be called hunters so pay large amounts of money so they can kill the biggest animal because it makes them feel like they are hunters. Its almost the same as if you laid down some serious cash to buy a super bowl ring that a former champion auctioned off just so people would think that you were a super bowl champion.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> As for the "guides". Just say they got no cash for the hunt - only the right to make and sell a video of a hunt. Can anyone explain to me the appeal of a video of someone shooting a tame deer inside a State Park? Deer that will, quite literally, eat out of a person's hand? You'd have to be a pretty big Delta Bravo to even attempt pulling that one off. That's not a hunting movie. That is a 20/20 special on a slaughter house, or hidden camera footage of the animal shelter on "going to sleep" day.


I enjoyed the last film doyle made and ill buy this years video as well. The hunt is lame but the deer footage is pretty cool.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > As for the "guides". Just say they got no cash for the hunt - only the right to make and sell a video of a hunt. Can anyone explain to me the appeal of a video of someone shooting a tame deer inside a State Park? Deer that will, quite literally, eat out of a person's hand? You'd have to be a pretty big Delta Bravo to even attempt pulling that one off. That's not a hunting movie. That is a 20/20 special on a slaughter house, or hidden camera footage of the animal shelter on "going to sleep" day.
> ...


Ding, Ding, Ding...we have a winner! How many guys will pay $15 to see video of this buck?


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

I have photographed deer on a few occasions out there. I even paid $50 bucks to go out for a few hours of photographing. I saw one tame doe over by the farmhouse that will lay outside your trailer and wait for you to come out and play with her. Other than her I found NO tame deer. The bucks that I photographed were every bit as deer like as any others that I have come across anywhere. I really don't see what all the controversy is about. I would love to have a tag out there. 

Congrats to the people who acquired tags this year and congrats on the great deer that the Island produced for them.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Sorry, but I didn't feel the ripple in the "force" the moment that buck went down, sooo, I guess you could say...don't know, don't care!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Regardless of my (or your) personal opinion about whether or not this is ethical from a hunter's viewpoint, with all the issues this thread has generated, it seems like we've missed the most important one, ie; The view this "hunt" portrays to the non-hunters and the ammo it gives the anti's. How do we, as hunters, explain this "hunt", and why make it such high profile that we are forced to? IMHO, it doesn't bode very well! All those involved have done the hunting community a disservice!!!


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

> How do we, as hunters, explain this "hunt", and why make it such high profile that we are forced to? IMHO, it doesn't bode very well! All those involved have done the hunting community a disservice!!!


We as hunters don't have the ability to change, discontinue, or add hunts. Therefore, we are not responsible to explain anything. This logic is like asking drivers to explain the speed limit. Also, I don't think that I'd have any problem explaining this hunt. It is justified the same as any other hunt. People who hate hunting will always hate hunting, those who are non hunters will understand the strategy of using this resource to create revenue. I think that the "hater" crowd are the only one's who really want to make an issue out of this. While I kind of chuckle to myself about the conditions and fanfare around this hunt, it really doesn't bother me that much and I surely wouldn't want to discontinue it. We're talking about an opportunity to raise more money with one deer than most of our homes are worth. Any amount of common sense will recognize the value of this. I would be interested to see if anyone can come up with a reasonable argument against this hunt. I would love to hear some real substantive points instead of all the class warfare rhetoric and puffed up, ethics, soap box crap.----------SS


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

Springville Shooter said:


> How do we, as hunters, explain this "hunt", and why make it such high profile that we are forced to? IMHO, it doesn't bode very well! All those involved have done the hunting community a disservice!!!
> 
> We as hunters don't have the ability to change, discontinue, or add hunts. Therefore, we are not responsible to explain anything. This logic is like asking drivers to explain the speed limit. Also, I don't think that I'd have any problem explaining this hunt. It is justified the same as any other hunt. People who hate hunting will always hate hunting, those who are non hunters will understand the strategy of using this resource to create revenue. I think that the "hater" crowd are the only one's who really want to make an issue out of this. While I kind of chuckle to myself about the conditions and fanfare around this hunt, it really doesn't bother me that much and I surely wouldn't want to discontinue it. We're talking about an opportunity to raise more money with one deer than most of our homes are worth. Any amount of common sense will recognize the value of this. I would be interested to see if anyone can come up with a reasonable argument against this hunt. I would love to hear some real substantive points instead of all the class warfare rhetoric and puffed up, ethics, soap box crap.----------SS


No arguments against anything other than calling it a "hunt". I would prefer we call it what (for several reasons) it is...a shoot.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

this hunt/shoot takes several hundred applicants out of the Le draw by spreading them around more. good for you and me! It gives one guy/gal a chance at some of the largest deer in Utah. good for you/me. In fact we need to get it started in the national parks! 

90% of you b and m about more opportunity and then when its given you shun it. I cant understand that. I can understand your feelings about SFW and the tag money though.

If any of you naysayers can look in the mirror and say they wouldn't be a shooter it they were gifted the tag I will be the first to call you a Liar! You may not put in for that tag because you know the odds suck but you would dang well shot one of those bucks and hang it on your wall.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I don't get all of the fuss! Two deer off of the entire island makes no more difference than two farts in the wind! That the division gains revenue, which indirectly benefits all of us is a good thing.. It is not as if the herd is being removed. Like SW said, he helps us all in draw odds. 
Think about this, first of all, just as eh22 stated they are no more tame than the raccoon living in your neighbor's chimney. Second of all, does anyone know the size of the island? 28,800 acres, that is 45 sections. Does anyone know how big that is in real life? Well, let's compare it to the 116 CWMU's in the state including CWMU's of all the different species, guess how many of them are over 29k acres! Only 11 of those are larger. I am sure that your first thought is that not all of the island is deer habitat, well certainly not 100% of the CWMU land is either. Are these guys like getting a drive of 150 guys, and helicopters, of course, to corner them at the edge of the island to hunt them? I really don't care either way, but to call it not a hunt is absurd. Every last one of you would take the hunt if given it.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Dahlmer said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > GaryFish said:
> ...


I'd go $2.50.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Its not a matter of the deer population being able to handle the hunting pressure. It isn't about biology. Not at all. It is about there being a place where wildlife can be viewed and enjoyed without being killed by people. Plain and simple. Enjoying them for just the sake of it. We have the other 99.9 % of the state where we can kill things. The Island is a GREAT place to be able to enjoy it for what it is.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Its not a matter of the deer population being able to handle the hunting pressure. It isn't about biology. Not at all. It is about there being a place where wildlife can be viewed and enjoyed without being killed by people. Plain and simple. Enjoying them for just the sake of it. We have the other 99.9 % of the state where we can kill things. The Island is a GREAT place to be able to enjoy it for what it is.


I have gone there twice and I don't recall seeing any deer and certainly not any large bucks. Would two people going there ruin all of the viewing opportunities? It would not seem to invasive to me, but I am not very familiar with the island.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think the hunts might actually save those bucks. Now that there's a price tag on them maybe they will actually watch them more carefully. There has been quite a bit of poaching going on out there over the years by tards sneaking on the island by boat or 4 wheeler when the waters low. There was even some of the state workers that actually worked out there taking a few out.

Kind of like the elephants in Africa. You don't patrol them and poachers will shoot them.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Two hunts won't ruin the wildlife viewing for anyone. Two bucks taken out won't crash the herds. Two bucks won't impact the biology. Really, two bucks mean nothing individually. Just as taking out two bighorns really won't impact things, though the sheep numbers are a fraction of the deer numbers. That isn't the point I have. 

To me, it a principle of restraint, conservation for conservation sake, and appreciating nature without having to consume it. ALL the hunts/shoots on the Island - deer, sheep and bison - are purely about feeding egos. Nothing more. Nothing less. Deer numbers stay pretty much in balance with carrying capacity because of coyote numbers. Bison are rounded up and many are sold every year to keep the numbers in line with capacity. The sheep were planted there in the 90s to grow in numbers so they could be transplanted to other places - used as a brood herd and have been successfully used for that in places like the Stansbury Mountains. 

What separates humans from all other predatory animals is our ability to restrain ourselves for other purposes. That is the debate against wolves - they have no restraint - only drive to kill. Cougars are the same and either will crash populations because of it. But we as people - we are the most effective killers of wildlife. But we are also the best proponents. Heck, though it is a tough battle, we do exert serious efforts to improve habitats, create new ones, try to reduce road kill, control predators, limit our own killing of game animals in order to preserve them. To me, a wildlife preserve such as Antelope Island represents restraint in appreciation of the game animals we so love to pursue. Such a place shows a commitment to the animals purely for their intrinsic value. That is something worth preserving in my mind. 

Hunters have done, and continue to do more to preserve wildlife in this country. We invest more money, more time, more resources, than any other group. But we do it so we can have animals to hunt. To me Antelope Island represents a higher level of commitment. It represents doing all those things just so we have animals. And that is a good thing. That is why I oppose ALL hunting on the Island.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Hunting on that island for deer has been going on for decades. It was in the form of poaching. 

May as well be legal hunters hunting it. 

I have no problem with them hunting it. The time of year there hunting it wont effect the genetics because the bucks they are hunting are passing on there genes the year they were killed and they passed on their genetics three to four years prior to them being killed.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

The mule deer herd within the Evanston city limits is growing. We have some pretty good bucks, although I'm afraid the gene pool could use some diversity. Could you fellas cull out a couple fawns off the island for us? I'll come and get em.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Sure Goob. How many do you need? You want some bighorns and bison too?


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I would rather see the Island make some decent $$ and a hunter harvest these 2 deer a year than have them die of old age. IMO this is a clear WIN/WIN/WIN for the state, the island and a few LUCKY hunters. I don't know what all the fuss is about.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Sure Goob. How many do you need? You want some bighorns and bison too?


Thanks Gary. 4 mule deer fawns if you would, male and female offspring from each one of those beautiful bucks.

We'll pass on the Bison, got plenty. And I'll ask about the Bighorns, they may be from Wyoming anyway.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm pretty sure the bighorns came out of Colorado. Like Utah plates at the porn shop, you probably have enough of Colorado in Wyoming as it is.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Donttreadonme said:


> I would rather see the Island make some decent $$ and a hunter harvest these 2 deer a year than have them die of old age. IMO this is a clear WIN/WIN/WIN for the state, the island and a few LUCKY hunters. I don't know what all the fuss is about.


Well said!


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## gitrdun (Dec 28, 2009)

If I had the coin like Denny I would hire Doyle in a minute. $1000.00 to me is like 5 bucks to Denny. But Mossback sure knows how to get it done. On any unit, not just the island. The island is like a bonus for Doyle. If I could make a living at doing what I love to do why the hell not. The money goes for good cause?!?!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Welcome back from hibernation gitrdun! You make a valid point.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Why do we only hear the complaining about the deer hunt. Most people seem to be ok with the bison hunt on the island. Same thing, isn't it? Nothing much said about the sheep hunt. I know a lot of people go out and shoot their antelope 50-100 yards off the road. Is that really hunting? What about the Moose up in the Wasatch Front Canyons that you can walk within 20-30 yards of or the mountain goats up on timp., which I have seen people standing next to. Is that any different?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I agree with ridge. Why are hunters only cool if they do everything the absolute hardest way possible. For myself, I'll take the easy when it's available because I've had plenty of the hard. I think we sometimes blow things out of proportion and forget that ultimately it's just a guy shooting a deer.-----SS


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> Why do we only hear the complaining about the deer hunt. Most people seem to be ok with the bison hunt on the island. Same thing, isn't it? Nothing much said about the sheep hunt. I know a lot of people go out and shoot their antelope 50-100 yards off the road. Is that really hunting? What about the Moose up in the Wasatch Front Canyons that you can walk within 20-30 yards of or the mountain goats up on timp., which I have seen people standing next to. Is that any different?


I don't see anything wrong with what animals are taken, and how they take them as long as they are legal. The thing I struggle with is the state running with the highest bidder.

There are big differences between general hunt areas, limited entry areas, AI-type areas, and a petting zoo, and nothing wrong with animals dying of old-age in anyone of these in my opinion.

I don't know what all the motivating factors are, and have no idea how much revenue is required to maintain the various activities and wildlife on the island, but if funds from island visitors do not cover the maintenance, shut it down.

To me, the animals on AI are more of a novelty or spectacle - maybe not to the level of a petting zoo, but definitely not an open general hunt area either.

Where animals need to be controlled on the island, go with the current draw system - or a simple draw with each interested person putting in one-time only would suffice - all persons having the same draw odds, charge a standard fee such as 5.00 or whatever. Let the amount of interest drive the outcome of revenue generated, not based on who would throw the most money in. If only two people put in and 10.00 was generated, so be it. I don't think any of our wildlife should be open to highest bidder, but rather either be open areas or rely on a draw - not how much money one has and is willing to throw in.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I have been, and always will be quite critical of ALL hunts on Antelope Island. Now that said, I do think there are easier hunts out there. Heck, I've got a DLL cow elk tag this year! And that means I'll ride in a truck and shoot an elk, most likely out of a winter feeding area - so it is anything but a hunt. It is a mere meat gathering exercise. It is why there won't be pictures or a hunting report or great story to go with it. Hunts on AI are probably more of a hunt than that. 

My issue is that the Island was established as a State Park reserve. It represents history, nature, culture, and a snapshot of the natural resource of the Great Salt Lake as it once was. It is a beautiful place in a stark landscape. It is an escape. It is an oasis away from the mega development of the Salt Lake metroplex. To me, the Island represents that we can keep a natural place without having to develop it. The animals on the Island are part of that. There is no biologic need to hunt the animals there. There is no overpopulation of deer or bighorn sheep. There are not habitat issues. The predators on the Islands keep the herds in a well enough balance that human culling of the bighorns and deer is not necessary for herd health. The bison herd is a domesticated, livestock herd. It is rounded up every year and animals are sold in efforts to reduce populations and keep the herd in balance with carrying capacity. There is no need to shoot them. Hunts have no impact on the reasonable balance of bison numbers in relation to habitat conditions. 

So really, hunting of the animals simply becomes a matter of doing it because they are there, but forgetting the reason WHY they ARE there. I am a hunter. I love to hunt. But I am not in the camp of killing things just because they are there. I think it is important to have places where we can hunt, as I think it keeps people better connected to our natural environment. But just as important is having a place where we DON'T hunt - even though we could - for the same reason of keeping connected to our natural environment. We have 85,000 square miles of land in Utah. And 3/4 of that land is in public ownership. Setting aside 43 of those to NOT hunt isn't a bad thing.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Garry im sorry but to me that sounds like it was written right out of a peta handbook. There are places all over this country where they not only eliminated hunting but are still trying to eliminate hunting. You are always hashing it out over hunting opportunity on general areas and now we have another area that is open to hunting and you want to shut it down. 

If you dont want to hunt it dont pay for the hunt ir don't apply for the tag. It really is that simple. 

I honestly suspect the only reasons people cant stand seeing Denny with that buck is because their jealous just like i am about the $ guys being able to jump over our waiting periods. If it was two regular guys with tags instead of a paying guy im convinced you all would say the hunt is great. The only problem is the greenies would squash the hunting if it were the case. Unfortunately money talks and I'll be the first to admit it sucks.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Not a PETA speech. I am a hunter. But I also can appreciate seeing wildlife without fantasizing about killing it.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

I don't see anything wrong with these hunts. I think alot of people on here are just mad because they will never have the opportunity to take a monster like that. Its the same as a private flight to space. You don't have to respect the effort to shoot an animal as tame as that but quit complaining. They can either sell 200k tags and keep the island or raise taxes on everyone. I have never been to antelope island and don't want to pay any extra of my own money for it to exist. Whats wrong with letting the market handle that. Also all the people saying they wouldn't mount it... that is just silly. If you own a piece of art on your wall you should put that deer on the wall. Just because it wasn't in the back country doesn't make it any less cool to see. Taking care of parks and public lands aren't free, I'm just glad the DWR also manages for opportunity so I can pay less than $100 and go chase a deer around. Anyway, just my opinion.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

I am going to take the liberty of taking Gary's post out of context to make a point and hijack this thread.


GaryFish said:


> My issue is that the *National Monument *was established as a *National Monument *reserve. It represents history, nature, culture, and a snapshot of the natural resource of the Great Salt Lake as it once was. It is a beautiful place in a stark landscape. It is an escape. It is an oasis away from the mega development of the Salt Lake metroplex. To me, the *National Monument * represents that we can keep a natural place without having to develop it. The animals on the *National Monument * are part of that. There is no biologic need to hunt the animals there. There is no overpopulation of deer or bighorn sheep. There are not habitat issues. The predators on the Islands keep the herds in a well enough balance that human culling of the bighorns and deer is not necessary for herd health. The bison herd is a domesticated, livestock herd. It is rounded up every year and animals are sold in efforts to reduce populations and keep the herd in balance with carrying capacity. There is no need to shoot them. Hunts have no impact on the reasonable balance of bison numbers in relation to habitat conditions.
> 
> So really, hunting of the animals simply becomes a matter of doing it because they are there, but forgetting the reason WHY they ARE there. I am a hunter. I love to hunt. But I am not in the camp of killing things just because they are there. I think it is important to have places where we can hunt, as I think it keeps people better connected to our natural environment. But just as important is having a place where we DON'T hunt - even though we could - for the same reason of keeping connected to our natural environment. We have 85,000 square miles of land in Utah. And 3/4 of that land is in public ownership. Setting aside 43 of those to NOT hunt isn't a bad thing.


The question that I pose is how did the sheep and bison get on the island? They were not there naturally&#8230;.Man brought them to the island as a usable and renewable resource. The bison were transplanted back in the late 1800's and the bighorn sheep were brought in from Hells canyon Idaho twenty years or so ago by Utah Chapter of Foundation for North American Wild Sheep with an agreement made that the sheep would be used to propagate and seed new herds and that limited hunting would be allowed. An interesting side note to this is that UFNAWS and the Utah DWR were instrumental in getting bighorns reestablished in our National Parks with the similar mandate as with the island and the park service told the sportsmen of Utah and the State to go to he!! when we wanted to take sheep out for transplant. As a result the sheep herds in Arches and Canyon Land peaked and are now crashing. Only one sheep has been reported in Arches in Two years and a once thriving population in both parks have been reduced to non existence. Aches dose not recognize a sustainable population and Canyon lands was at over 500 hundred and now has a significant drop in population. Nature does not always act like the text book models predict. How much more do we stand to lose with this type of thinking?


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