# Man Eating Sheep Dogs



## archery

Question?? has anyone else been attcked by sheep dogs? I have never felt like carrying my concealed weapon untill this past week. I was heading out on the end of a ridge on the 4-wheeler, i came over a hill where there was a large pond and it was loaded with sheep. as i got nearer the mountain maggots, the large sheep dog dog came running to me. followed by four more of his buddies. as they got closer it was obvious that were in attack and kill mode. they were trying to get to my legs and feet while i was cruising along on the wheeler. of course i simply sped up and they couldn't catch me. while speeding away i lost my hat. they all pounced on the hat and i escaped. I got out on the spring i was heading to and there was someone already there. so i turned around and headed to a different area. as i approached the clearing where the "wolves" were i stopped and glassed them from a distance. they were happily chewing my hat to shreds. so i figured the hat was lost . i started across the meadow and they were all laying in the road, as if awaiting my return. they sprang to there feet as they heard me and were literally in my way. i decided that i would run over anything stupid enough to get in front of me. as i got close to them they again tried to get at my legs and feet. i sped by them and was surprised to see one come running at full tilt from behind a tree right at me. he closed on me faster than i can type this and if not for a timely lift of my leg above the wheeler , he would have gotten my leg. instead he slammed into the side of my ride. I gave it all the gas i had and was barely staying ahead of the pack. they chased me for several hundred yards, before finnally giving up. this whole event really pissed me off. i wanted to go back to my camp and get my 9mm, and two clips and go back and feed the bastards some american lead. As i have thought about this psst couple days two things don't sit with me. one-why in heck do the sheepmen have to have dogs that try to kill you? and two-they are living off the public land, why are they allowed to keep animals on public ground that try and kill the public? I have never been a proponent of closing the public lands to sheepmen or cattlemen, but i am rethinking this stand now. What i am sure of is next trip i am carrying my sidearm, and i will shoot to kill if this happens again and its on public land. I am having to keep myself from going back up there for no reason other than to kill those pieces of crap. anyone got a feeling on this issue??


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## Grandpa D

Call the authorities and turn them in.
If you don't who will be attacked next?


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## ClintW

+1


Grandpa D said:


> Call the authorities and turn them in.
> If you don't who will be attacked next?


Don't do anything that might get you in trouble. But if the dog draws first blood, Rambo time.


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## Riverrat77

I'm not at all sure how the sheepherders feel about this.... I'm kinda worried that if you start shooting dogs, you may have to dump a sheepherder out of the saddle too and that makes things a lot more complicated. :? I do agree that their dogs need to be in their view so they can call them off however. I was up on a four wheeler over the long weekend and had the sheep dogs come running over to us but they weren't out to get us, just check us out. The herder whistled and they ran back toward him so no drama. Sorry you got chased twice... that doesn't sound very fun. I bet a whack with a stout stick would change their mind about how tasty you were too.... just a thought.


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## archery

Yeah the thought crossed my mind about having a battle with a sheepherder. however i don't believe one was around. i am going to make a few calls monday and see if i can prevent some other helpless soul from becoming dog food. I am going to see who has grazing leases up there and send the jerk a bill for a new hat. I have wondered since what would happen to someone walking through the area???


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## sagebrush

this post really makes me laugh :lol: , I have a hard time believing this. in all of my encounters with these dogs not once have they become aggressive to words me or even my own dog.
i was out camping over the labor day weekend and a sheep Herder came through my c amp with his dogs, I had my with me like always. the dogs did not even care about my do, or my dog about his. in fact one came back that night to play with my dog.


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## archery

Sagebrush, that was my typical past experiences also. i have bowhunted for 30+ years and never had anything like this happen. But let me assure you that they were going for blood. I had them bark and look all mean before but this was different. I don't know if someone before me had tormented them or what but i know that i will not fall into that again without something to even things up. Laugh if you like, but it scared the hell out of me and i ain't easy to scare.


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## TRDHUNTER

Were you up by Strawberry? I have never had this problem until this year up there. Scarred the crap out of me when my leg was almost grabbed onto.


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## Finnegan

Sheep dog comes after you, talk to it. A human voice is the sound of authority, so let them hear it. But an ATV is just an invitation to get chased.

I've had a couple of those big Pryenees come charging up like they were ready to kill, but had them on their backs getting a belly rub within seconds. They're just doing a job and they know their job isn't attacking humans.


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## tapehoser

While scouting near Soapstone last year, I came across a sheep camp. We spoke to the herder about elk in the area and had a lengthy conversation. We tried several times to approach his sheep dog and it would have NOTHING to do with us. I get the impression that they are all that way.


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## Loke

I've been following these comments about sheep dogs for quite a while. There was a thread or two on the old forum. I've come to the conclusion that there are several different breeds that are being discussed. Do we know which ones they might be?

http://www.akc.org/breeds/anatolian_shepherd_dog/

http://www.akc.org/breeds/great_pyrenees/index.cfm

http://www.akc.org/breeds/kuvasz/index.cfm


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## hunterfisher

The dogs are trying to protect there sheep. thats what they were made to do.


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## RTMC

I had always thought that they were mostly Great Pyranese, but up where I hunt alot of them are Maremma's.
http://dogbreedinfo.com/maremmasheepdog.htm

I have always worried about getting into it w/ some of these dogs, and have had a few bad encounters with some. None to the extent of Archery's experience. I have had one bark at us and chase us off, only to come sneaking up on us a couple a hundred yards later scaring the hell out of us. The road was an old riverbed, so the sides of the road were about 2 feet higher than the road. Well, my girlfriend and I were cruisin' up the road, and the next thing we know, that **** dog had ran up behind us and had his head in the drivers side window yellin at us. Scared the crap out of both of us, but my girlfriend was driving so she got the brunt of it. Poor girl. :lol:
I have had another one come bombing in from across a pretty big vally. Once he got to us he thought it was time for business. I had to keep my bow in between us or he might have tried to have himself a taste.
Other than that, most have had wanted nothing to do with us. Just kept an observing eye on us, but would never come in any closer than 5 or ten feet.


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## GSLHonker

I am glad to see this post. I too have had allot of problems with sheep dogs this year. I have been chased by them on foot and atv yelling at them didnt stop them. They are flat mean and someone is going to get really hurt. I am not sure what exact breed they either the pyrenees or kuvasz. I have never had encounters with sheep dogs until this year and it seems that there are always sheep around where I hunt.


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## Rustynail

If you take your handgun up, don't forget your checkbook. It will only cost about $1200.00 a dog. And then you can carpool to court with the other studs that shot the cows with arrows. Stop the wheeler step off and they would have left you alone. Good story though.


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## archery

Hey Rustynail, When did i piss down your throat?? to even put me in the same sentence with those a-holes that shot the cows is unforgivable. I loathe people who do that kind of stupidity. And i will shoot a 1200.00 or even a 10,000.00 dollar dog if it attacks me. There is no doubt that if i had slowed and stopped, the discussion topic would be more like, thats too bad about that guy that got chewed to pieces the other day. and if you think i egged em' on, well i didn't. on the way back though i tried to tell them to get back and talked at them and i believe it made them even madder. But don't ever use my name or likeness in the same verse as those jerks that shot the cows.


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## Texscala

2 years ago I was up near Kamas on the highway and found a large sheep dog standing in the middle of the road watching his sheep. I slammed on my brakes so as not to kill him and in return he charged my car and tried to bite at my arm hanging out the window. He came at the car so fast he dented my driver side door quite a bit. 

The thing I did not like is that I understand why they can use public land and all that crap but how do you get compensated for the damage the dogs cause?

You don't and I believe that is irresponsible of the sheep owners.


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## ridgetops

rustynail, I don't think it's the public responsablity to step off their wheeler to avoid being bit. If I were to get bitten, the dog would be dead and the sheep dogs owner would be paying me more than $1200 for my troubles. On a lighter note, I was riding with my 7 yr. old last week up by some sheep and one of the big white dogs stood up to check us out. My daughter yells out, look dad that sheep looks like a dog and I say, "with a laugh" it is a dog and she then says, well that dog really looks like a sheep too. :lol:


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## Riverrat77

The ones we saw where we were hunting or scouting have been the Maremmas or the first in Loke's list. I haven't seen the Pyrenees or the other. I have been on foot and the big Maremma dogs just cruised right by... they were also the ones that kinda trotted up to the wheeler but then turned around and walked off. I wonder if the rabies shots you get when you're bitten by an animal come to more than $1200 dollars? I'd guess in that case, self defense would overrule my checkbook. :wink:


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## threshershark

*Sheep Dogs!*

I'm in the same boat as most here in that most of the encounters I've had with sheep dogs could be summed up by me being eyed with casual suspicion. On one occasion an aggressive dog approached me with his back hair standing on end, teeth barred, and emitting a fierce growl. I was on foot, and tried the usual warding off techniques. Nothing doing, the dog continued his approach with threat posturing until he was 20 feet away and I was very nervous about his intentions. I was packing a S&W Airlite .44 magnum, and employed the same logic that I would use in any self defense scenario. People are allowed to defend themselves if they feel they are in danger of serious bodily harm or death. In this case, I did feel that way and visualized a 15-foot personal space barrier, deciding that if the animal continued past that imaginary line I would put him down no questions asked. During this time I had been angling away from the sheep(which were about 200 yards from me), my sights squarely on the dog. Very dicey, several times the dog was right at the threshold of no return, but when I achieved some imaginary distance from the flocking sheep he advanced no further. Anywhere I happen to be (my local park or hunting public land) an unleashed vicious dog that puts me or any of my party in danger of serious bodily harm or death will be put down. Animal owners of all persuasions have a responsibility not to allow dogs that pose a danger to humans to run free and uncontrolled.


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## jahan

Rustynail said:


> Stop the wheeler step off and they would have left you alone. Good story though.


BS! I have had some come up to me and were friendly, but most would rather eat your face off. I don't care if they are protecting the sheep they should not harm innocent people. I am more scared of those dogs than bears or cougars. I would never shoot one unless that was the last option, but something has to be done so no one gets hurt. You would have to be nuts to have five of those dogs running at you full speed and stop, they would not have stopped! :evil:


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## Rustynail

I guess I just think the whole story sounds pretty exaggerated. Sorry to compare you to the guys who shot cows, that was uncalled for.


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## Hardwater

This is a "one-strike-and-you-are-out" state as far as your dog biting someone is concerned. Hopefully, the owner of the dog will never have to defend him/herself against a law suit because his dog is protecting sheep as trained. Because you escaped unscathed, you might want to track down the owner and document the event with local law enforcement.

The problem here is not a sheep dog that is within sight/ear shot of its owner/handler (previous posts have rightly praised the obedience of sheep dogs that were with their owner/handler.) The problem is a dog that is left, independent of the owner, with sheep to protect them from both four legged and two legged varmits. You were construed as a threat, hence the behavior. To avoid the unwanted behavior, don't be a threat. Now how you do that, without upsetting the leave-no-trace police, while ridding your wheeler is something to consider. You could, I suppose, blaze a new trail on the outskirts of the dogs defensive zone or hunt in a different area. For some reason, I don't feel those are the best options.

Just be careful whatever you decide, with the elk/deer hunts just around the corner, it would be a shame to have you sitting in the hospital...or the slammer.


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## Huge29

Finnegan,
You must be a certified Crocodile Dundee or dog whisperer, to have one of these bad boys turn over to be scratched would indicate that it is not one of these types of dogs that are raised with the sheep and never (literally) treated like a dog by petting them. I think you ran into one of the collies that is with the herder regularly not one of the white wolves that live with the herd. I had one track me down that ran off as I spoke to him; i have a relative that has one as his security dog around the farm--he is nice, but again he is one that is treated as a pet, but he is an unstoppable beast that is a killing machine-he goes through ***** like scoobie snacks; they have 3 dew claws. I did not realize that there are actually 3 breeds that all look very similar. 

Thanks for the info guys!

Archery,
In which part of the state were you hunting? I can appreciate your frustration; that would scare the bejeebies out of anyone!


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## dkhntrdstn

I had one chase me on my four wheeler with his teeth showing and i was ready to kick him right in his teeth. I would have broken his jaw. they try to bite me there going to get kicked and beaten with what i can find.


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## archeryman101

Those of you who think these dogs will stop or back off better re think that train of thought. I believe these dogs are getting alot more aggresive. Our neighbor runs these types of dogs with his sheep and they are not afraid of humans. You can hit them with a stick or shoot at the ground by there feet and they just keep coming. I will not go on their land looking for our cows or the other neighbors cows on the horse, 4 wheeler, or foot without a pistol for self defense. These things have no fear and have attacked us several times. They will even bite the horses legs. Once you get far enough away from the sheep they will stop. That is how we escaped on the 4 wheeler and horse we just kept moving as fast as we could until we got away luckily they didn't hurt the horse to bad and I was able to keep my legs away on the 4 wheeler. Next time I will have a pistol. They scare the crap out of me and it takes a lot to scare me. I to would rather see a lion or a bear. They are at least usually afraid of humans. If you see one of these dogs get away from the sheep as fast as you can and be careful.


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## TEX-O-BOB

Let me get this straight.

You went wheeling into a heard of sheep and the dogs that were guarding them chased you.

Hmmmmmm......


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## TEX-O-BOB

Ya know, if I was a dog, I'd still hate wheelers.

I think all the wheelers and all the dirt bikes should be put into a large hole and buried.

Gee, It's amazing how there's ballance in nature... Good doggie!


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## Rustynail

> Let me get this straight.
> 
> You went wheeling into a heard of sheep and the dogs that were guarding them chased you.
> 
> Hmmmmmm......
> Let me get this straight.
> 
> You went wheeling into a heard of sheep and the dogs that were guarding them chased you.
> 
> Hmmmmmm......


 :lol:


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## GSLHonker

Sometimes it is hard to avoid the sheep when they are covering a public road. I was talking with a client today that got bit pretty bad on the leg by one while driving his atv. NOT GOOD !! If it ever happens again there will be a dead dog pretty dang quick !!!


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## jahan

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Let me get this straight.
> 
> You went wheeling into a heard of sheep and the dogs that were guarding them chased you.
> 
> Hmmmmmm......


Wow! All of my encounters with these dogs have been on foot, so your wheeler argument is crap! :roll: Many times I have had the sheep move in on me while glassing areas. The dogs were mad that I was there, did I have it coming then? :roll: I understand they are trying to protect the sheep like many have said, but is that a valid excuse for them attacking innocent people? I do want to mention I have encountered several nice ones that could care less if I was there or not, but just as many that meant business.


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## EPEK

Say all you want about whatever, but I will add this. I hate these dogs worse than any other animal on the planet. It goes, these dogs, wolves, moose, cougars, bears, and then everything else I am not as sceerd. I am afraid of pot guts and other small critters that might be living in the rock cracks I just happen to be hiking over, but now that I think, about it if I had to go with what out there I have had the most encounters of stopping my heart it would be more like, Grouse, small birds, chipmunks and other ground squirles that scatter across the dry leaves in the morning that make me spill my bladder all over myself while I am trying to catch the 'cougar' in my headlamp.

Back to the dogs............ the few encounters I have had with these have been very serious threatening situations, and twice I have knocked an arrow, and once I ranged a rock two feet infront of the dog. Other than moose, I have never been stood off like I have been with these very well trained mutts.


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## lehi

I have run into them up curtis creek in my jeep but have never been up close to them. They seem pretty aggressive but if one happened to attack me, i wouldnt hesitate to shoot it. Oh, and they were right next to the road, and all of the sheep were on the road as well.


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## quakeycrazy

I have never been attacked, but if on foot and if they decided to really attack I wouldn't hesitate to put one in their throat. Then I would take my statement as well as the person with me down to the nearest ranger or police statement and plan to file a complaint against the dog's owner. They are trained to protect sheep but really how many people attack sheep and need to be repelled? They need to teach the dogs to respect people and go after coyotes and other critters instead. By the way, if someone were to attack the sheep, especially with velcro gloves, I would be all for the dogs attacking. *()*


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## archery

Just to clarify for tex o bob, and rusty nail, i did not ride through the sheep, i said there were sheep on the water hole. the dogs initially came about 80-90 yards from the sheep to get to the road. I was up near strawberry, on layout ridge. have been scouting alot for a friend who has a muzzy elk tag and have spent loads of time up there for several weeks. this was the first time i saw these particular dogs. had seen a couple other little mutt like bitches that wanted to eat me but they were smaller and i would have enjoyed kickin there teeth in. they would chase me everytime i saw them but they were no threat i thought. these others were way larger, lots more aggressive and to my mind should be removed from the mountain or feed a steady of something ballistic. But i would enjoy immensly taking one of these dog sahvahnts up there and watching them crocodile dundee them into submission. i really would. get in touch and i'll pay the gas and get us all up there for the show. i will likely win the 10,000.00 that they give on those t v programs for the dumbest people tricks.


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## RuttCrazed

I don't care if I am standing in the middle of the flock, if one of those dogs becomes aggresive towards me, it is dead! How is this any different than my dog attacking someone in a park because they came within 50 yards of my kid? It is public land and if they can't control their animal, I will! If they want to hand me a bill for $1200, I will see them in court. I have the right to defend myself and they have the responsibility to control their animals.

Rut


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## quakeycrazy

My problem is that we have as much right as the sheep herders and their livestock to access those same lands. Yet there are some that believe that we should not be able to ride public roads in our vehicles or atv's if the sheep are anywhere near the road. I have ridden through cows, sheep, and horses that were on the roads and just went through slowely to make sure I didn't hit anything. If the average person whether they be a hunter or not is using common sense and not purposely seeking the herd to harrass them why is it that we should have to curl up and let the dogs have their way with us??? I wouldn't let a human attack me because I walked on the sidewalk in front of his house, whether or not the guy was "protecting" his family inside. The dogs need to be trained a different way.


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## catman

I guess I have a hard time with all these atv's. While they are legal to ride in some areas. They are not in others, and I see more and more of them off the beaten path all the time. I also hear sarcastic remarks about cattle, sheep, grazing on public land. While I myself am no rancher....own no cows or sheep....have had both screw up my stalk......I respect the fact that they are legally there, and that the ranchers that are grazing areas....have done alot to improve hunting....yes I said improve hunting in alot of this public land. If you think the forest service had installed all them water troughs, and developed all those springs.....you are wrong. And I'm not sticking up for the dog because I wasn't there.....maybe the dog was a mean s.o.b. , but I will say that most dogs don't like wheelers or motorcycles, and its natural for them to chase them. I guess though in everyones view of shooting the dog.....I'll go for that as long as you guys think its okay if I blow a hole in the block of that atv when I find it off the road? That ought to get me in some chit with guys on here.


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## Riverrat77

catman said:


> I guess I have a hard time with all these atv's. While they are legal to ride in some areas. They are not in others, and I see more and more of them off the beaten path all the time. I also hear sarcastic remarks about cattle, sheep, grazing on public land. While I myself am no rancher....own no cows or sheep....have had both screw up my stalk......I respect the fact that they are legally there, and that the ranchers that are grazing areas....have done alot to improve hunting....yes I said improve hunting in alot of this public land. If you think the forest service had installed all them water troughs, and developed all those springs.....you are wrong. And I'm not sticking up for the dog because I wasn't there.....maybe the dog was a mean s.o.b. , but I will say that most dogs don't like wheelers or motorcycles, and its natural for them to chase them. I guess though in everyones view of shooting the dog.....I'll go for that as long as you guys think its okay if I blow a hole in the block of that atv when I find it off the road? That ought to get me in some chit with guys on here.


I do agree we have to respect their right to use the land... I'm sure they have grazing permits and all that. I've actually talked to some of the sheepherders or owners and they seem to be nice people.... but come on... just get a handle on the dogs. Not a big deal... at least it would seem that way to me. Just e-collar them big suckers and light em up when they approach a human. 8) About the ATV's off road.... I can't comment there without stirring with a mighty big stick but I don't like them where they're not supposed to be either.


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## RuttCrazed

catman said:


> I guess though in everyones view of shooting the dog.....I'll go for that as long as you guys think its okay if I blow a hole in the block of that atv when I find it off the road? That ought to get me in some chit with guys on here.


I've got no problem with that.

Rut


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## Fishrmn

catman said:


> I guess though in everyones view of shooting the dog.....I'll go for that as long as you guys think its okay if I blow a hole in the block of that atv when I find it off the road? That ought to get me in some chit with guys on here.


I just wish you could put one through the block while the "blockhead" was still on board.

Fishrmn


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## archery

I was not aware that i was "offroad" at the time. this particular well used and mapped(since the 50's) road is not offroad. I don't blaze trails or use those that are obviously "new roads". in fact the farthest i ever get off raods on an atv, is parking off the road so others can pass. Not sure how i get accused of being a rogue off roader. I use mine to access areas that are off the main roads, and save wear and tear on my trucks. as do most people, i don't like the folks who drive everywhere.


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## quakeycrazy

This is and should not be about ATV's offroad, the original post does not state that archery was offroad at all. We are talking about someone in an atv or vehicle driving along the "legal" dirt road, the man that happens to walk within 100 yards of a herd, or the person that just happens to be sleeping under a tree when he awakens to the sound of his flesh being ripped about by a sheep dog. Get back on track, what would you do if you are driving your atv through public land on an authorized trail or road and a dog attacks you?? That is what archery is talking about. I for one use the three "S" rule..... "SCREAM", "[email protected]#" my pants, and "SAY" nice doggie.


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## Fishrmn

archery said:


> I was not aware that i was "offroad" at the time. this particular well used and mapped(since the 50's) road is not offroad. I don't blaze trails or use those that are obviously "new roads". in fact the farthest i ever get off raods on an atv, is parking off the road so others can pass. Not sure how i get accused of being a rogue off roader. I use mine to access areas that are off the main roads, and save wear and tear on my trucks. as do most people, i don't like the folks who drive everywhere.


I wasn't including you. I'm sorry if you thought that my post was about you and your wheeler. There's nothing wrong with driving a wheeler on an established, legally open road.

Fishrmn


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## jahan

catman said:


> I guess I have a hard time with all these atv's. While they are legal to ride in some areas. They are not in others, and I see more and more of them off the beaten path all the time. I also hear sarcastic remarks about cattle, sheep, grazing on public land. While I myself am no rancher....own no cows or sheep....have had both screw up my stalk......I respect the fact that they are legally there, and that the ranchers that are grazing areas....have done alot to improve hunting....yes I said improve hunting in alot of this public land. If you think the forest service had installed all them water troughs, and developed all those springs.....you are wrong. And I'm not sticking up for the dog because I wasn't there.....maybe the dog was a mean s.o.b. , but I will say that most dogs don't like wheelers or motorcycles, and its natural for them to chase them. I guess though in everyones view of shooting the dog.....I'll go for that as long as you guys think its okay if I blow a hole in the block of that atv when I find it off the road? That ought to get me in some chit with guys on here.


I hate to say it, but sheep are way more destructive than ATV's. I followed what looked like a 4 lane freeway through a clearing made by sheep. I do agree ATV's should never blaze there own trails, but they should not be banned, but that is a whole different subject so I won't go there.

I would never condone shooting any dogs, BUT if it was attacking it should be shot. Seems like the only excuse people can come up with for agreeing with the dogs behavior is: to blame the ATV's or say they are protecting sheep, which both are weak arguments.


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## chkrhntr

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Ya know, if I was a dog, I'd still hate wheelers.
> 
> I think all the wheelers and all the dirt bikes should be put into a large hole and buried.
> 
> Gee, It's amazing how there's ballance in nature... Good doggie!


Tex are you freiking kidding me? I have always enjoyed your posts and agreed with most of what you say (Except the ugly dogs are better than setters crap) :wink: . 
I don't ride four wheelers. People who don't obey atv laws make me very angry. But do you really think nature should retaliate against the legal use of ATV's by letting packs of wild dogs chew a mans jugular out? I hope you don't condone dogs chasing law abiding citizens regardless of thier choice of transportation.


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## Treehugnhuntr

While what you say is true, we can't expect dogs to tell the difference. For all intents and purposes, these dogs are closer to wolves than anything. They will protect their own at all costs. Wouldn't you do the same? I know Knowlton would.  Too bad I had to ban him. :wink: 

Sometimes you just have to cut off the whole leg to stop the infection.


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## chkrhntr

As far as the "write out a check for 1,200 bucks" crap is concerned, If I had to shoot an unsupervised wild dog in self defense I would send the sheperd a bill for the bullet! Iknow they are doing their job but are we supposed to get bit so they can do thier job? You guys are killing me.


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## elkhunter

Im sorry to here about your chase with no return but if it were I they would be dead. I wnt up to montie cristol several years ago and had to stop for the sheep in the road and 3 of those big bastards came over and jumped up with there front paws on my driver door and scratched the hell out of my truck. I was young back then and drove an old truck so th scratches were not a big deal then but I have a nice truck now ad I wonder what I would do now for the fact the hearders just stood there and did nothing. My advice to you would go to wild life recorces and alarm them about this matter befor someone does come come up dead or hurt. For the fella that was laughing you dont know if these dogs had rabies or just mean and hate or doing hat they were tought to do witch is protect the heard. the 4 wheeler may have scared them and riled them up and as someone had mentioned you dont know if someone befor hand had taunted them in some way. I thinkit is very rude when someone one nothing but laugh abut a problem. yours trult the elkhunter :mrgreen:


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## quakeycrazy

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Wouldn't you do the same? I know Knowlton would.  Too bad I had to ban him. :wink:
> 
> Sometimes you just have to cut off the whole leg to stop the infection.


Hahahaha. Knowlton was a fine piece of work. Let's hear it for Treehuggnhuntr!! Hip Hip, Hurray!!! *()* *()* Banana Time


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## Teewinot

I'll vouch for the fact that those dogs will scare you to death when they come in like that. I was up in Logan Canyon cruising around my dirt bike when I came up on a bunch of sheep. Granted I was going pretty fast and spooked the sheep so those dogs came running with a look of death on them. They came up biting at my legs and I couldn't drive as fast as I wanted since the sheep were all over the road. It scared me to death. Watch out for those dogs. I couldn't tell you the exact breed but they were those big white dogs. I've been through some other herds with the little black dogs that don't seem to give a crap that you are harrassing the sheep.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

> I'll vouch for the fact that those dogs will scare you to death when they come in like that. I was up in Logan Canyon cruising around my dirt bike when I came up on a bunch of sheep. Granted I was going pretty fast and spooked the sheep so those dogs came running with a look of death on them. They came up biting at my legs and I couldn't drive as fast as I wanted since the sheep were all over the road. It scared me to death. Watch out for those dogs. I couldn't tell you the exact breed but they were those big white dogs. I've been through some other herds with the little black dogs that don't seem to give a crap that you are harrassing the sheep.


I'm resurrecting this thread from the dead. I had an encounter with those big white dogs this week. I was on foot and those dang animals were like a pack of rabid wolves. I had given what I felt was a pretty wide berth to the herd. The dogs all came running anyway. I was unholstered and ready to dance for a moment or two before the shepherd came riding in to save me and/or the dogs. I don't know who was luckier that shepherd was there. -)O(- I will not hesitate to blow one of those suckers from here to kingdom come if I ever have to confront aggressive dogs like that without a handler nearby to call it off.


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## chet

Glad you were packin!!!!!!!! make sure the clip is always full!


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## TEX-O-BOB

We saw two of them right in with the sheep today up scouting for elk. The first one looked and acted like he'd sooner lick you to death than hurt anyone. He was a younger dog and didn't look that mean at all. The second one though, took a much different stance to our presence. He was all hackled up and ready for business when we rolled up in the truck and started to unload the horses. He walked off towards the sheep barking and growling. I think if you'd have walked in there unannounced he'd have taken you. They're big dogs too, at least 90-100 pounders, quite capable of doing you plenty harm if they wanted I'm sure.


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## inbowrange

The sheep herders dogs up in Soapstone I've been bit at and chased so many times, 2 years ago I had to shoot one with my bee bee gun cause everytime we went by him he bit at us. Last year one of the dogs chased a deer well over a mile and the only thing that stop him was he seen me close to the sheep. He then came charging over to me and I drew my bow back and started screaming at him and about 30 yards he finally turned and headed to his sheep!


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## wyogoob

I have two friends that raise Great Pyrenees sheep dogs. One is a major sheepherder on the North Slope of the Uintas and the other is a business associate of mine from Montana. Their dogs are a joy to be around on the ranch, but I don't turn my back to them when they are doing their job, tending the herd.

I have had 2 close calls with Pyrenees, both times hiking alone: One up on the top of Red Knob in the Uintas and another on the very remote Temple Pass in the Wind River Mountains. Both times I was fortunate enough to have 2 hiking poles with me. Two Pyrenees were biting me as I came over the top of Temple Pass while I was trying to beat out a terrible hail storm in the midst of a herd of sheep. I defended myself and it went poorly for one of the dogs.


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## Vern21

I'm glad this topic was brought back. I have a problem right now I have 3 cameras down in a deep canyon and, the sheep are on the ridges that I have to walk down to get there to change my cards. but I was worried about the dogs. cause when there out by the road. the run along my jeep biting at my tires. So what I am gathering is if I go I would have to stay a good distance away from the sheep to keep the dogs away.


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## 06springfield

I just got to ask. What were you really doing to the sheep. you baaaaad boy.


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## mikevanwilder

I have had a few encounters with those dogs. One my buddy dang near put an arrow threw, this is after the herder jumped off his horse and tried to grab it. The second was last weekend up by scofield I pulled into a camp spot to set up camp had my wife a 5 year old with me and one of them came into camp to investigate, I grabbed my son a put him back in the vehicle cause I knew the sheep weren't to far off and this dog acted like we were after them. I grabbed a stick and was prepared to babe ruth that SOB, when it heard something over by the sheep and took off. Most of the time they just growl alot and try to scare you off, but then there times they seem like they will just kill you.


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## gitterdone81

Anybody have any issues with them at night time? I have been walking through the hills and had to nock an arrow as four of them were staring me and my buddy down. The other day I was out later than I wanted, in an area for the first time, and I heard the dogs, and could see the sign of the sheep recently. This is why I turned around earlier than I wanted, as all I had was my headlamp and a knife in my backpack.


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## jahan

Riley, Great Pyrenees dogs stay with the sheep, so there will only be a sheep herder around occasionally. Their sole job is to protect the sheep. They are raised with the sheep and actually think they are part of the flock of sheep. The only times I have been harassed by these dogs have been when I was on my quad or in my vehicle. I camped for a week around July 24th and it happened to be where a large flock of sheep with two Pyrenees dogs. We had at least 6 dogs in camp, those dogs never bothered us once, they did raid our dog food one day, but it didn't bother me, they looked a little hungry anyways. They generally will not bother you, I just try and avoid situations that would make them think I was a threat. 

My guess is these dogs had some bad experiences with ATV's harassing the herd, I would have **** myself in your situation, but I am glad you didn't shoot them, I am not completely certain this is entirely correct, but I believe they are considered as farm animals, basically the same as the sheep. Unlike domestic pets, these animals do not have to be treated the same way as our pets, but if they were shot, I believe you may have to pay for the animal. I am sure if you can prove it was attacking it would be a different story. Maybe somebody with some livestock background can correct me.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger

> My guess is these dogs had some bad experiences with ATV's harassing the herd, I would have **** myself in your situation, but I am glad you didn't shoot them, I am not completely certain this is entirely correct, but I believe they are considered as farm animals, basically the same as the sheep. Unlike domestic pets, these animals do not have to be treated the same way as our pets, but if they were shot, I believe you may have to pay for the animal. I am sure if you can prove it was attacking it would be a different story. Maybe somebody with some livestock background can correct me.


Utah free range livestock has a no-fault rule. With free range livestock sometimes they get hit by a car or cause damage in some other way. In that situation there is no presumption of negligence on either side. The car owners take care of the damage to their car (or whatever is damaged) and the livestock owner is out an animal. 
Utah's dog laws are pretty straight forward. Law enforcement dogs are exempt from them, while working and hunting dogs are exempt from leash laws and portions of the worrying livestock and wildlife laws. Any dog in Utah may be injured or killed if it is in the act of biting, chasing, or worrying humans or domesticated animals (Worrying is defined as tearing, biting, or shaking with the teeth.).


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## Duckholla

Before I share my story with you - let me first say that I am a dog lover, and very comfortable around most dogs. I've got a little 5 year old hunting buddy that gets trained daily and has retrieved several hundred birds in my behalf. I would never condone, or encourage anybody to harm these sheep dogs...

That said, I am an archery hunter, and I carry one blunt tip in my quiver every year and I HAVE USED IT ONCE ON A SHEEP DOG. Typically, I can stand my ground with these dogs, even while walking right through their sheep. They are trained no different than my dog is trained, it's the threat that they are chasing off. Once they realize you are not a threat they will usually lose interest. The situation where I shot one of these dogs was different. I was nowhere even close to their sheep. I could hear the sheep nearly a half mile above me on top of the ridge. I was no threat at all. I was hiking near the river on the bottom of a canyon when I turned a corner and there were two of these dogs drinking from the river. Both of them immediately took a very aggressive posture towards me. I knocked an arrow like I always do and talked softly to them both. One lost interest quickly, the other, (a big male) did not. He continually advanced towards me. I continually backed up as he advanced. I had a knife on my belt that I had unclipped as I was completely unsure as to how this dog was going to act. Once he backed me up about 75 yards, I was in a place that I couldn't really back out without putting myself in a compromising situation (really rocky and I feared I might fall and make myself vulnerable) so with 10 yards between us I started throwing rocks. That ticked the dog off more. Finally, I drew my bow and I shot the SOB right in the butt, and immediately drew my knife expecting a fight. The dog got extremely aggressive with growls and heavy breathing but backed off Before I share my story with you - let me first say that I am a dog lover, and very comfortable around most dogs. I've got a little 5 year old hunting buddy that gets trained daily and has retrieved several hundred birds in my behalf. I would never condone, or encourage anybody to harm these sheep dogs...

That said, I am an archery hunter, and I carry one blunt tip in my quiver every year and I HAVE USED IT ONCE ON A SHEEP DOG. Typically, I can stand my ground with these dogs, even while walking right through their sheep. They are trained no different than my dog is trained, it's the threat that they are chasing off. Once they realize you are not a threat they will usually lose interest. The situation where I shot one of these dogs was different. I was nowhere even close to their sheep. I could hear the sheep nearly a half mile above me on top of the ridge. I was no threat at all. I was hiking near the river on the bottom of a canyon when I turned a corner and there were two of these dogs drinking from the river. Both of them immediately took a very aggressive posture towards me. I knocked an arrow like I always do and talked softly to them both. One lost interest quickly, the other, (a big male) did not. He continually advanced towards me. I continually backed up as he advanced. I had a knife on my belt that I had unclipped as I was completely unsure as to how this dog was going to act. Once he backed me up about 75 yards, I was in a place that I couldn't really back out without putting myself in a compromising situation (really rocky and I feared I might fall and make myself vulnerable) so with 10 yards between us I started throwing rocks. That **** the dog off more. Finally, I drew my bow and I shot the SOB right in **** immediately drew my knife expecting a fight. The dog went from ticked off to "I'm going to rip for flesh off and drag you down to the pits of hell!!!" He ended up backing off however once the sting of that blunt set in. (Maybe 20-30 seconds after the shot.)

In hind sight (which is always 20-20) I wouldn't have done it that way again. My rule moving forward is to give the dog the benefit of the doubt, and try show the dog that I am no threat. But if I ever have to draw my bow again at a sheep dog there will be a very sharp broadhead on the other end and I will kill the dog. The blunt worked, but I have never seen a dog in that state of mind, and that furious. It would have ended very badly for me had the dog attacked, with only a knife to defend myself. Very scary situation.
:shock:


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## b-creekoutfitters

We had the same thing happen to us last year up curtis creek on our quads dogs were laying in the middle of the road and as soon as we approached they began biting at us and chasing us then on our way back one dog was laying in the road and the others were hiding in the brush on the side of the road as soon as we slowed down to not hit the dog the others charged . Needless to say the dog in the road didnt fair well . These lands and roads are for the public to use and we shouldnt have to be afraid of our safety from these mutts . What if i would have been with my little boy on foot


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## Iron Bear

Maybe this is a new phenomenon. Can you imagine trying to protect a herd of sheep with today's predator population. I'd be pissed too if I had to chase off cougar and yotes all day and night. And now there is word of wolf entering the fray. :mrgreen: :roll: 

I imagine back in the day being a sheep dog meant something entirely different. :lol:

I have had several run in's with these guys. Mostly Pyrenees and they will test your courage. And I have no doubt they can smell fear.


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## b-creekoutfitters

and I will test there ability to withstand a hollow point


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## Riverrat77

jahan said:


> *Riley, Great Pyrenees dogs stay with the sheep, so there will only be a sheep herder around occasionally. Their sole job is to protect the sheep. * They are raised with the sheep and actually think they are part of the flock of sheep. The only times I have been harassed by these dogs have been when I was on my quad or in my vehicle. I camped for a week around July 24th and it happened to be where a large flock of sheep with two Pyrenees dogs. We had at least 6 dogs in camp, those dogs never bothered us once, they did raid our dog food one day, but it didn't bother me, they looked a little hungry anyways. They generally will not bother you, I just try and avoid situations that would make them think I was a threat.


Huh? I've not really had any trouble with the little herding dogs... or the big white ones that i can really remember. There are usually sheep all over the hills I pass through to hunt. Maybe I've just been lucky. If they come after me though, I'd have no problem putting a "home run derby" swing into one with a hefty branch or with less time to prepare for it, putting an arrow through one. I love dogs too but I'm not about to be dog food when I'm just minding my business. I get that they keep predators at bay and they're just doing their job but somewhere along the way they need to train these mutts a bit or something so these confrontations become limited, instead of apparently being the norm when you wander into the same areas the sheep are in.


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## stillhunterman

It looks like a wolf took out a couple of these kind of dogs...may have been posted somewhere else but thought it might be relevant here...sheesh

http://www.parkrecord.com/ci_15669389


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## Mtnmangrizzly

I have also been chased by these type of **** dogs several times in different areas. Im not talking about the collies the herder has with them when on his horse i have never had a issue with the border collies being aggressive im talking about the huge white bastards that weigh 100lbs that run eat and sleep with the sheep. Those are the ones that are mean and very mean at that. I have also been chased down and almost had a few limbs removed by these things chasing us down on our wheelers. I love dogs more than any animal but there has been a few times i have had to give a swift kick to the face to one of these dogs when being chased by them. If i had not been on a wheeler i would have been torn to shreds!! If i was out hunting on foot roaming the woods and one of these things came at me like they did on my wheeler i wouldn't hesitate for 2 seconds to put a bullet in one :evil: I strongly agree something needs to be done about these mean dogs!


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## wyogoob

stillhunterman said:


> It looks like a wolf took out a couple of these kind of dogs...may have been posted somewhere else but thought it might be relevant here...sheesh
> 
> http://www.parkrecord.com/ci_15669389


Wow, interesting story.

They need to move the "OK for ranchers to shoot wolves" boundary down to Rt 6.


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## stillhunterman

> by wyogoob » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:06 pm
> 
> Wow, interesting story.
> 
> They need to move the "OK for ranchers to shoot wolves" boundary down to Rt 6.


Yeah, I have a hunch boundaries are going to change a bit once there is an established pack or two...


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## Scoonie833

Looks like the sheep dogs meet there match and more: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11858806 According to KSL, another sheep dog bites the dust at the hands of a wolf.


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## MadHunter

Daughter vs Sheep Dog = My daughter is still breathing, dog is not.

I was with my wife and 2 daughters up by a little known place named Coleman Basin. While driving past the sheep herd 2 of the dogs ran toward us from over 1/2 mile away. My duaghter watched them with the binos and made nothing of it. A friend of mine had warned me about those dogs and that if they come after us we should shoot them. I really thought he was joking. So my daughter tells me she has to pit stop, so I pulled over and she went into a patch of trees. As she was doing her thing my wife called out to me and said the dogs were still coming. I moved to where I could see the dogs and they were approaching my busy daughter. When they were about 50 yards I could hear one growling.

I pulled the .45 and shot 2 into the ground. One dog stopped and looked at me but the other didn't even slow down. I don't think 2 seconds passed when my daughter yelled out and I let the dog have it. I am not sorry for it and I would do it again in a heart beat. My friend's family lives in Heber and they have a mining claim up in that area. He deals with those dogs all the time and told me his dad had shot one up a couple years back. All I got to say is if it's me or the dog, in this case my kid or the dog well...... no need to think there!


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## gdog

The Pyrenees are not as bad as the Akbash breed in regards to aggression. The Akbash dogs are pretty tough customers.


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## jahan

gdog said:


> The Pyrenees are not as bad as the Akbash breed in regards to aggression. The Akbash dogs are pretty tough customers.


Most people can't tell the difference between the two, I know I can't.


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## MadHunter

jahan said:


> Most people can't tell the difference between the two, I know I can't.


So I could have shot either one? I hate not knowing what I killed!


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## gdog

jahan said:


> gdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pyrenees are not as bad as the Akbash breed in regards to aggression. The Akbash dogs are pretty tough customers.
> 
> 
> 
> Most people can't tell the difference between the two, I know I can't.
Click to expand...

Me neither!


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## jahan

Searching on the internet I still am having a hard time telling the difference.

Pyrenees:
[attachment=1:3r5dqqj3]great_pyrenee.jpg[/attachment:3r5dqqj3]

Akbash:
[attachment=0:3r5dqqj3]Akbash.jpg[/attachment:3r5dqqj3]

To top it all off, there are mixes of the two out there. Anyways, it is unfortunate some of you have had such bad experiences with these dogs, IMO they are great dogs if taken care of properly. Some of the ones you guys have described have issues, probably from being harassed.


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## izzydog

Everybody in my hunting party has a cwp because of these dogs. We hunt up by Strawberry and have been harassed and scared to death many times by these dogs. We came back to camp one night and 3 were surrounding my buddies 130 pound rootweiler that was leashed and they have charged all of us numerous times and I've never seen a herder within miles. Who exactly is going to sue me for $1,200 if I shoot a dog that is attacking me or mine? Go for it!


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## skeet4l

Here's more, old news but worth knowing.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2892224


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## MadHunter

At the end of the article it states that they have been putting ROAD KILL out as bait. I am no wolf expert but everything I have read and seen about wolves is that they do not come back for carrion. These wolves seem to be hell bent on killing just for killing sake.

Here is a line you need to memorize: "There are no wolves here in Utah. I shot a sheep dog that came after my kid!"


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## stillhunterman

MadHunter said:


> At the end of the article it states that they have been putting ROAD KILL out as bait. *I am no wolf expert but everything I have read and seen about wolves is that they do not come back for carrion. * These wolves seem to be hell bent on killing just for killing sake.
> 
> Here is a line you need to memorize: "There are no wolves here in Utah. I shot a sheep dog that came after my kid!"


The gray wolf doesn't eat carrion very often, but they will on occasion, usually when there isn't abundant fresh prey avaliable. They have been known to cache a kill and return to it at a later date. Still, that doesn't seem like a real smart way to catch them, but who knows?


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