# Black Cloud Ammo



## NiceShot (Sep 11, 2007)

I read a few reviews on Federal Black Cloud shells last year. For the most part, they were spoken of highly. Have any of you had experiance with them? If so, how did you like them?


----------



## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

i got a couple of boxes of black cloud last year did . they kill but they would jam in my gun.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I've never shot Black Cloud ammo nor have I heard enough information as to positives or negatives. These shells could be the very best shell ever made, then again it may be a marketing/commercializtion ploy to get hunters to purchase a mediocre to decent shell at an unreasonable/inflated price.

Get em' close and shoot em' in the lips. If you can accomplish both (get em close and shoot well) it shouldn't matter what shell you use.

I've yet to see anything compensate for good shooting at reasonable ranges.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have used them , first shot was a double, I like them...read all about it in the previous thread on this very topic viewtopic.php?f=12&t=398&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=black+cloud
My simple point is this, if spending an extra $5/box or $0.20/shell is the difference of a fair day and a great day on a sport that we literally spend thousands of dollars a year (isn't it the reason you have a truck in stead of a car, only reason you have a dog, boat shotgun, dekes, calls, trailer, etc.?), are you really going to risk it for $5, if you truly believe they are worth it (like I do)?


----------



## hairy1 (Sep 10, 2007)

They are ok but not worth the extra money. IMO

They do not pattern any better than the kents. They might kill better though.

I will stick with the kents and shoot at close range.


----------



## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

I love em! SHoot a "****tail" of two kents and a black cloud for longer shots. Works for me...


----------



## lone hunter (Jan 23, 2008)

I tried them last year. They definately kill and have some more range. I think the pattern was so tight at closer range that I had a hard time connecting, and are too expensive to spend a lot of time patterning. I also think I will use a "****tail" this year with Winchester Supremes. The Supremes are not a lot less expensive, but I have had great success with them.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

With lots of money pouring into waterfowl hunting lately, it's as much of a fashion show as some anorexic tall chick walking down a runway with some pieced together rags that cost a grand. Not very functional but hey it's the new wave of what is supposed to be cool and the best. Just ask the designer if it isn't the best there is or not.

I love (not!!!!!) hunting with guys that are always switching out their shells for certain situations, especially with geese locked up and these guys flip flopping and moving all over the place thier ejecting steel onto the ground and loading up hevi shot or whatever.

It's whatever makes folks happy that matters and bottom line, but until someone can show that it is worth the money, effort, time, whatever, I'll still stick to the "KISS" method of getting er' done.

My KISS method remains getting birds close and following through on the shot.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> With lots of money pouring into waterfowl hunting lately, it's as much of a fashion show as some anorexic tall chick walking down a runway with some pieced together rags that cost a grand. Not very functional but hey it's the new wave of what is supposed to be cool and the best. Just ask the designer if it isn't the best there is or not.
> 
> I love (not!!!!!) hunting with guys that are always switching out their shells for certain situations, especially with geese locked up and these guys flip flopping and moving all over the place thier ejecting steel onto the ground and loading up hevi shot or whatever.
> 
> ...


So, you are still using lead? :roll:


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

It sucks and not worth the money.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > With lots of money pouring into waterfowl hunting lately, it's as much of a fashion show as some anorexic tall chick walking down a runway with some pieced together rags that cost a grand. Not very functional but hey it's the new wave of what is supposed to be cool and the best. Just ask the designer if it isn't the best there is or not.
> ...


Yup, lead or Black Cloud are the only two choices so I choose lead. Your clairvoyance is amazing. Have you ever thought of taking up psycho-kinesis?


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> > So, you are still using lead? :roll:
> ...


Harry,
Actually, I win the lottery regularly due to my psych powers, how did you know? Just letting you know that you can get off of your soapbox about all of your different points of view some related and some unrelated to the topic; your condescending attitude seems a little over the top for a thread of a guy simply requesting fellow hunter's opinions. He was simply asking for people's opinions of those who have used them, you did not indicate whether or not you had done so in four paragraphs, did not seem consistent with the KISS theory, it is not personal, simply give your opinion on the topic and take your rant to your own thread about comparing runway models and waterfowl hunting, thanks! 8) Maybe I misread it, but it seemed like everyone who said no did not actually say that they used them, but mentioned how they are not worth it...seems odd if that is the case, maybe I misunderstood, my impression was from those who have used them the response was positive IMHO.


----------



## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I had the chance to use some of the black coud last season. Short story long it is only steel shot. Any quality steel shot will work just as well. There is nothing special about the shot in Black Cloud. However there is something special about the wad. The BC wad is designed to stay with the shot for a longer period of time keeping the shot column tighter to a longer range, thus putting more pellets on target. The same can be accomplished by shooting a tighter choke. So IMO the black cloud is not worth the extra $$. For the exta money you will spend on a couple boxes you could buy a nice aftermarket choke and get the same or better results.

I have to hand it to Federal though, they have done a hell of a good job marketing this shot.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

You know Huge29, I haven't shot Black Cloud or done any ballistic testing or patterning of Black Cloud ammo. But,&#8230;&#8230; I'll just bet that you've done some shooting but haven't done any ballistic testing or patterning either in your persuasion of Black Cloud being worth it or not, just your opinion, same as mine.

I've found some stuff in books, articles as well as on the internet regarding Black Cloud ammo including this fine representation:




Ballistic testing and patterning info on the internet and other places are scarce and what there is, doesn't seem too conclusive.

My point was (if you need me to spell it out for you) is that "if you havent ever met some slobs with their 2,000 dollar guns, 5000 dollar dogs, 20,000 dollars of gear, and know-it-all-because-they bought-it attitude, your welcome to stop by here, and ill take you out to meet a few.

It's the hype and false-confidence that these gimmick products create that really agitates guys who have a little knowledge on the subject. The slobs buy it and head out with their super monster sky killer chokes with $50/box of 10 shells (gauranteed to kill at 275 yards) and start shootin' at anything that moves at about 120 yards out. Black cloud has been hyped and sold to this exact crowd. if you bought some to try, and are not in this crowd, then you dont need to be offended."


----------



## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

I have the two shot guns that total 1500 and 1900 and I have a dog that is starting to become expensive from vet bills not training. And I can tell you from experince with the black cloud that with the right choke it can be lethal. One thing I like about it is how its a 1.5 oz load that shoots fast which works great for my shooting style.

As for shooting a ****tail I personally think its a bad Idea cause if you forget what order your shells are in your gun or if the birds dont fly the way as planned you may be shooting a slower load then expected or smaller shot.


----------



## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

unlike some on this thread, i have put this product to the test. i havent done any tests on ballistics or patterning, but let me assure you-- it works. i shot 5-6 boxes of it last year, and i love it. it is pricey, but in my opinion its worth it if you are a good enough shot to hit birds fairly consistently. shoot skeet, practice, and learn what shots you can make, or have a good chance of hitting the bird. i noticed a lot more birds get killed and a lot less cripples last season by using black cloud. it is especially effective on pass shooting or taking shots that are a little farther out. but once again, learn what shots you can make to be ethical, and cost efficient. i think the point d wiem was trying to make, is this-- you spend a lot of money on your gun, dog, decoys, gas, truck, warm clothes, waders, food, etc etc etc, so its not too valid of an argument to worry about spending a couple more bucks for shells. the only way for you to know for yourself is to try em out and see what you think. but i can tell you this, coming from someone who killed and retrieved more ducks last year with black cloud alone, than a lot of guys do in a season, you wont be dissappointed. hopefully that answers your question.
Mr. harry-- the one difference in me and these over-spending guys you talk about is this-- I HUNT!! Last year i hunted 6 days a week, numerous places, and circumstances, and me and my two friends i hunted with killed over 550 ducks. on public land, without a boat. we work hard, learn the best ways pursue the birds, and pride ourselves on our success. sure, i bought an SBE2, and my two other buddies have guns even nicer and more expensive than that, but its because we take it serious and we need the best equipment that we know wont let us down. its not fair that you assume all guys who buy nice guns or have nice gear are ritzy, and unethical, and only buy the newest and greatest stuff in the fasion show. some of us are more dedicated than others i guess.


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

For those who are interested to see what the real difference here; you can see the barrel type BB's on top left that make up about half or so of the total BB's together with regular round BB's and the wad just below it that is essentially reverse of a normal wad that catches the air quickly to separate from the BB's whereas this one is designed to keep the BB's closer together for a longer distance...


----------



## pintail (Apr 20, 2008)

harry i have read through your posts and every one you reply on you B*&^% and moan cause it is not the way you do it. If your are so good and shoot all your ducks in the lips i would love for you to take me, the deadicated boys and nor-tah all out hunting and show us how duck hunting should be done. We have all used black cloud and killed more ducks with it, naturally that is why we like it. If you shoot kent that is great i honestly dont care what shells you shoot and you shouldnt care what we shoot. That is our personal choice. We have used black cloud and it works for us. Big freaking deal if you think it is over priced then that is your own opinion. It should not matter the choice of shell we shoot out of our "expensive guns". If you want to shut us up for good lets all get together this season and use the shell of your choice and see if you are all your cracked up to be. You seem like you cant get over the fact you have to deal with a younger generation of hunters then you are. Hunting is never going to be the way you had it growing up. Welcome to this generation of hunting, quite your belly aching and enjoy hunting how you personally like doing it. I hope that we get to have the privilege of hunting with you this year. Start tearing into me for my opinion but im sure that i speak for alot of people on this forum, quite tearing people apart for not hunting how you hunt.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

pintail said:


> harry i have read through your posts and every one you reply on you B*&^% and moan cause it is not the way you do it. If your are so good and shoot all your ducks in the lips i would love for you to take me, the deadicated boys and nor-tah all out hunting and show us how duck hunting should be done. We have all used black cloud and killed more ducks with it, naturally that is why we like it. If you shoot kent that is great i honestly dont care what shells you shoot and you shouldnt care what we shoot. That is our personal choice. We have used black cloud and it works for us. Big freaking deal if you think it is over priced then that is your own opinion. It should not matter the choice of shell we shoot out of our "expensive guns". If you want to shut us up for good lets all get together this season and use the shell of your choice and see if you are all your cracked up to be. You seem like you cant get over the fact you have to deal with a younger generation of hunters then you are. Hunting is never going to be the way you had it growing up. Welcome to this generation of hunting, quite your belly aching and enjoy hunting how you personally like doing it. I hope that we get to have the privilege of hunting with you this year. Start tearing into me for my opinion but im sure that i speak for alot of people on this forum, quite tearing people apart for not hunting how you hunt.


If you and your buddies like to skybust, go ahead. Its not something new and part of the "new generation" of hunters,..... its been going on for quite some time. 
Dead Coyote (ever heard of this stuff?) Hevi shot T shot in 3" and 3 1/2" shells is probably your best bet however. Dead Coyote is Hevi shot, not just light wimpy steel like your Black Cloud ammo and 75% of other waterfowl ammo. It's 10% heavier than lead and 54% denser than steel. I have patterned and researched these shells and it is some wild stuff. It WILL INDEED hold fairly tight patterns out to 70 yards and beyond. T shot at .21 caliber will still deliver a leathal payload out past 100 yards if you can manage to get a pellet into the neck, head, wing, or vitals of a bird. It may be like pulling the handle on a one armed bandit (if your 21 or older and know what this is) but I'm sure for you guys, it's worth the gamble.

I know T shot might be a bit big for ducks but balistically and patterning capabilities at great ranges, it will smoke your black cloud bullets 10:1 . Shooting in tight (under 70 yards) with Dead Coyote may create more tissue damage, but that shouldn't matter to you you guys too much since the kill is most important. 
Skybusting on public waterfowl refuges with Dead Coyote is kind of a trick too shooting in close. Like I said, T shot can be leathal out past 100 yards so capping someone across the pond by accident is a possibility but can also add to the fun and enjoyment of the hunt.

By the way, you certainly wouldn't want to hunt with me. I've hunted waterfowl for close to 30 years and know little about it. One of my favorite things to do with the next generation of hunters is to b!tch and moan about how they hunt.


----------



## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

if you read my suggestions to the original poster of this question, you will see that i dont skybust. i told the guy to learn to make good ethical shots, know his range, and only take the shots he has confidence in, to not waste money on shells, cuz they are expensive. even though i am the younger generation, i learned how and was introduced into hunting by the generation you came from. everyone has their opinions, but my whole point is that its not fair to assume that we are all the same, cuz we're the young, rich spoiled, kill everything without repect for anything or anyone generation. that makes you no better than the tree huggin animal rights peta dumb shts that assume all hunters are the stereotypical ones from the disney movie bambie, who kill everything in the forest, and dont follow any rules.


----------



## NiceShot (Sep 11, 2007)

Chill out Harry. My question was for anyone who has used black cloud and how they liked it. You don't need to get all spazzo.

Anyway.... Thanks to all who replied. I ordered a case (I get them very cheap through my work) and will have to see how they perform. Can't wait for the season to get here. Every year at this time I find it hard not to day dream about being out in the mud.


----------



## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

Any shell will kill ducks if you shoot them in range. Having said that I tried a box or two of black cloud last year and yes they did seem to drop the ducks stone dead better than other brands of the same shot size. The one thing I didn't like is that the "flight stopper" pellets tend to mangle the meat leaving a huge entrance hole in the bird. Not so cool if you plan on eating your birds. Of course that doesn't seem to be an issue for many duck hunters.


----------



## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

> The one thing I didn't like is that the "flight stopper" pellets tend to mangle the meat leaving a huge entrance hole in the bird. Not so cool if you plan on eating your birds. Of course that doesn't seem to be an issue for many duck hunters.


WTH??? :evil:

an issue for many duck hunters

an issue for many duck hunters

an issue for many duck hunters

Why would you not want to eat your birds??? At least give them to someone who does?

Mangled birds is NOT a selling point in my book...No black cloud for me. I kill ducks stone dead with lightning fast steel reloads, and I shoot them in range. No sky busting and no wasted birds. 8)


----------



## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Ryfly said:


> The one thing I didn't like is that the "flight stopper" pellets tend to mangle the meat leaving a huge entrance hole in the bird. Not so cool if you plan on eating your birds.


Pretty much my thought on them as well, from talking to guys who shot that stuff last year. Not much practical use if you plan on using birds.... guess its good if you're wanting to put the smack on something huge like a swan but otherwise there isn't much performance wise that you couldn't get from a standard steel shell with a good shot. I don't have the money for that stuff... not when I can do well shooting old reliable. 8)


----------



## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

woollybugger said:


> > The one thing I didn't like is that the "flight stopper" pellets tend to mangle the meat leaving a huge entrance hole in the bird. Not so cool if you plan on eating your birds. Of course that doesn't seem to be an issue for many duck hunters.
> 
> 
> WTH??? :evil:
> ...


I'm just saying I know too many people who don't eat the birds they shoot. I don't know what the % of hunters is but some people only care to see the bird fall from the sky.


----------



## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

Last year someone posted a picture of a garbage can with several fresh ducks sitting on top. If you looked underneath them, would you find a couple of empty black cloud boxes??? :evil: (just kidding, sort of :wink: )

If Black Clouds really work to anchor ducks, then great. But if they ruin ducks, they have no place in my shell belt.


----------

