# Found Shotgun Farmington Bay WMA



## Msweat (Oct 24, 2013)

I found a shotgun in the Farmington Bay WMA unit. if you are missing one and can tell me what parking area and describe the shotgun I will gladly return it to you.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Thats very nice of you!


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## Msweat (Oct 24, 2013)

Gosh I can just imagine how crappy the feeling was when they got home and realized duck season might be over earlier than expected!


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah that is commendable. I can imagine a lot of guys saying "oh sweet, a shotgun!" and either selling it or keeping it for themselves.


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## captaincheeto (Oct 24, 2013)

Msweat said:


> I found a shotgun in the Farmington Bay WMA unit. if you are missing one and can tell me what parking area and describe the shotgun I will gladly return it to you.


Karma. Good work.


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## fowler50 (Oct 18, 2010)

One guy on Ksl mention that he has lost his shotgun in Fb. Here his number Blake 253-508-1256


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## Msweat (Oct 24, 2013)

Still nothing folks.......


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## IBSquatchin (Nov 19, 2012)

Finders keepers.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Did you report it to the local sheriff's office, and the staff at Farmington Bay? As for the finders keepers comment, I suggest you look up "Theft of Mislaid Property" in the Utah Code.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

:nono:


IBSquatchin said:


> Finders keepers.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Loke said:


> Did you report it to the local sheriff's office, and the staff at Farmington Bay? As for the finders keepers comment, I suggest you look up "Theft of Mislaid Property" in the Utah Code.


I got curious about this, so I looked up the law in the Utah code. I am not a lawyer, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but here is my interpretation of the law.

Here is where I found the law.

http://www.bestutahcriminalattorney...istakenly-delivered-property.php#.Um1jTRCrGSo

First a comment, the offense can be a felony or misdemeanor, depending the circumstances. In each case the law is structured as a first clause plus a second clause, with the word "and" joining the two. This means that both elements have to be present to constitute a crime. However, for our purposes we don't need to worry about the second element.

In each case the first element reads the same, essentially that a person commits the crime when that person

"obtain property of another which defendant knows to have been lost or mislaid, or to have been delivered under a mistake as to the identity of the recipient or as to the nature of amount of the property, without taking reasonable measures to return it to the owner; *and...*"

Therefore, there are at least two elements required. First, the person has to "know" that the property has been mislaid. Second, the person must fail to take "reasonable measures" to return the property.

If it came to court it might be hard to prove that the defendant "know" that the property was mislaid. However, as a practical matter, in the case of a valuable item such as a gun a jury would probably take the position that a defendant knew that the property was mislaid.

The second thing is that the defendant must take reasonable measures to return the property. If the defendant did take reasonable measures, as seems to be the case here, then there is no crime.

By the way, what should the original poster do with the gun if he can't find the owner? Should he give it to someone else, keep it, or destroy it? Those seem to be the only choices, and keeping it seems to me to be the most reasonable.


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## IBSquatchin (Nov 19, 2012)

What shotgun??


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

"Reasonable" in the eyes of the law would most likely be to turn it in to the local authorities. After a period of time (I believe 90 days) the item could be claimed by the person that found it.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

> By the way, what should the original poster do with the gun if he can't find the owner? Should he give it to someone else, keep it, or destroy it? Those seem to be the only choices, and keeping it seems to me to be the most reasonable.


A third option, and the most reasonable, is to turn it in to the county sheriff and file a found property report.


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## IBSquatchin (Nov 19, 2012)

He made a good faith effort to find the owner. As.long as it's not stolen he should keep it. The police will end up destroying it or selling it. If he turns it in he'll never get it back.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

IBSquatchin said:


> He made a good faith effort to find the owner. As.long as it's not stolen he should keep it. The police will end up destroying it or selling it. If he turns it in he'll never get it back.


What if the original owner reports it as stolen?


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## IBSquatchin (Nov 19, 2012)

That's why he checks with the police.


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## IBSquatchin (Nov 19, 2012)

He can check w/o turning it in.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

IBSquatchin said:


> That's why he checks with the police.


Guess I misunderstood your post about not going to the police.


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## IBSquatchin (Nov 19, 2012)

Dunkem said:


> Guess I misunderstood your post about not going to the police.


I should have been more clear.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Its all good8)


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, how does a "found property report" work?

Who knows, maybe some day I will find a million dollars in unmarked bills and need to deal with this question.


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

i would turn it into the sheriff . what happens to it after that , is not the issue IMO . Sounds to me in the law , you have to turn it in , its not yours . so i would do that and not worry about it anymore .


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

Gift From God


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## HunterDavid (Sep 10, 2007)

As a law enforcement officer, I can tell you that you can be charged criminally if you do not make a report with the local law enforcement division for finding the firearm, because as stated above, it is considered theft of abandoned or mislaid property. If reported to LE, they will take it and book it into a property room.....if it is not claimed within 90 days, they will return it to you like any other found property case. (As long as it is not listed as stolen.) That brings up the second point....say you keep it and don't make a report and the original owner makes a report of it being stolen. One day you are out hunting and checked by the DWR and the serial number comes up as being a stolen firearm. Now it is a felony and they won't care if you found it five years earlier, because you do not follow the law and report it as found property. Just sayin', something to think about. ;-)

HunterDavid


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## Skally (Apr 20, 2012)

When have you been checked by DWR? let alone check the serial numbers on the gun.
They don't even bother checking licenses.


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## HunterDavid (Sep 10, 2007)

Skally said:


> Skally When have you been checked by DWR? let alone check the serial numbers on the gun.
> They don't even bother checking licenses.


How about last year while hunting jackrabbits in Juab County. DWR pulled up as we got out of our trucks, asked for licenses and looked at our guns. We didn't need a license for jacks, but he still checked out our guns. I was happy to have him do it.... Just because you don't seen them "doing their job" doesn't mean they aren't doing it.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

HunterDavid said:


> As a law enforcement officer, I can tell you that you can be charged criminally if you do not make a report with the local law enforcement division for finding the firearm, because as stated above, it is considered theft of abandoned or mislaid property. If reported to LE, they will take it and book it into a property room.....if it is not claimed within 90 days, they will return it to you like any other found property case. (As long as it is not listed as stolen.) That brings up the second point....say you keep it and don't make a report and the original owner makes a report of it being stolen. One day you are out hunting and checked by the DWR and the serial number comes up as being a stolen firearm. Now it is a felony and they won't care if you found it five years earlier, because you do not follow the law and report it as found property. Just sayin', something to think about. ;-)
> 
> HunterDavid


Interesting.

Would you be so kind as to quote the law on that? My reading of the state law on lost property is that the finder must make a good faith effort to find the owner, but no specific procedure is specified. But then, I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement officer, so I can't claim to be an expert.

Thanks.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

It would come down to interpretation, I assure you that most judges would consider a good faith effort to be notifying the local law enforcement authority of the find and turning it over to them. Shy of that I don't think they would find in your favor if you continued to possess the firearm.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> It would come down to interpretation, I assure you that most judges would consider a good faith effort to be notifying the local law enforcement authority of the find and turning it over to them. Shy of that I don't think they would find in your favor if you continued to possess the firearm.


The law says nothing about informing law enforcement or turning the property over to law enforcement, so yes, the procedure you suggest might satisfy the law, but it is not required under the law. All the law requires is that the finder of the property must make "reasonable measures to return it to the owner". As long as the person who found the property took reasonable measures to return the lost property to the owner they are not guilty of committing a crime and therefore cannot rightfully be convicted under the law.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I have hunted for 30 years. The CO's have checked for hunting license, plug in shotgun and checked for steel shot. They have never checked a serial # and ran that through their system. The only thing I would have done is let the Farmington Bay managers know I found a gun and give them my contact information. Don't turn the gun in or you will never see it again and it will end up in somebody elses posession. The owner probably doesn't know what the serial # is anyway to report it. As long as a reasonable effort was made on your part, I say Merry Christmas!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

massmanute said:


> The law says nothing about informing law enforcement or turning the property over to law enforcement, so yes, the procedure you suggest might satisfy the law, but it is not required under the law. All the law requires is that the finder of the property must make "reasonable measures to return it to the owner". As long as the person who found the property took reasonable measures to return the lost property to the owner they are not guilty of committing a crime and therefore cannot rightfully be convicted under the law.


I would suggest posting notices on the bulletin board at FB and taking pictures of them, also posting a notice on KSL under hunting and a few hunting boards like this one. Notate dates, times and exact nature of postings and how you have tried to reasonably find the owner. The courts are a joke, I know because I have been in one 3 times in the last 3 months fighting a ticket. I was told to meet with the prosecutor and work out a deal by the judge. I did so bringing a plethora of evidence proving my innocence. The prosecutor refused to even acknowledge my evidence and only asked if I would plead guilty. I told him no and to look at my evidence. He replied, I'll look at it in court see you there. What an azz. The courts and lawyers all can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. They aren't concerned with the truth, just a process and a slap on the back and $$$ in their pockets.


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## HunterDavid (Sep 10, 2007)

massmanute said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Would you be so kind as to quote the law on that? My reading of the state law on lost property is that the finder must make a good faith effort to find the owner, but no specific procedure is specified. But then, I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement officer, so I can't claim to be an expert.
> 
> Thanks.


 I wrote that in a hurry and was not as clear as I should have been. For that I apologize. The intent of my reply was to make sure you are aware that you can be arrested and charged for being in possession of a stolen firearm, if the owner reports it as stolen and you are later found to be in possession of it. IF, and this is where I was not clear, you do NOT make a police report of found property, you have no assurance that you will not be charged with the possession or theft of lost, abandoned or mislaid property, because law enforcement has no way to know if you did or did not make an effort to find the owner. At the very least, if they do not charge you with "theft of lost, mislaid, or mistakenly delivered property", you are still in possession of a stolen firearm (if the owner lists it as stolen).
Only you can decide how to proceed with this. I am not an attorney and cannot give "legal" advice. I would, if it were me, make a report and take a chance on getting it back in 90 days. It's not yours anyways, so if you don't get it back, big deal. If you get arrested 5-10 years from now, or your kid who borrows it to use, or whatever, that is a big deal.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Whether intended or not good advise has been given. To bail out of jail, get your car out of impound, and to hire an attorney will cost you more than the gun is worth. The simple fact is, if you are arrested, these costs are yours whether your guilty or not........


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