# Moose vs Snowmobiler with a Glock



## klbzdad

What do ya'll think? Right choice (other than making dog noises to try and scare it off)?






Had a bear with cubs come at me and my stepson once. Two warning shots and I was at 10 yards and ready to unload the rest of the magazine into her when she finally turned and ran away with the little ones. Pretty intense!


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## Huge29

I can't say that I agree fully with that choice. First shot while he was walking away, he approached the moose....I guess we could armchair QB it all night. On the other hand it had charged twice and was starting the third charge when the 3rd or 4th bullet was sent. I can't say that I would do anything differently if I found myself up that close, but I certainly would have sought a different route seeing it from that far away, I think??


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## Bax*

Wow! That would definitely freak me out. 

The shot timing was a little confusing to me as I would have thought he would have shot as the moose first came after him. But then again, maybe he didn't expect it to escalate like that?

Intense for sure!


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## RandomElk16

He pulled his snowmobile forward. He was in no danger at the beginning until he pulled forward not once but twice. I pull up to moose all the time in truck and on atv. You need to give them more than 10 seconds ro go about their business..

I disagree with his actions and shot timing.


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## klbzdad

Tried to watch enough times to see if the first shot was a warning shot. At first, I think that was his intention but the bull moose didn't care he'd been shot at. So, after the hoof pounding the guy got from charge number 2, and the fact that the damned thing was turning at the first shot and then charging through the rest of them...meh, I would have shot it too. Actually, I agree with random, I wouldn't have pulled the sled close until the thing was well on its way the other direction.

Besides, we don't have the entire video, so maybe they the guys were shed hunters out bugging the piss out of him to get his headgear to drop and he was pissed off that they had harassed his masculinity off from his noggin and wanted revenge.


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## Springville Shooter

The guy made some bad choices. But, those choices didn't warrant him losing his life without a fight. I don't care what led up to the confrontation, after the 2nd charge, guns would be blazing if it was me. The single stupidest thing that he did was to put the footage on the internet. He should be ball kicked for that.------SS


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## Wind In His Hair

I am not understanding what the big hurry was. Why couldn't he hang back a little while and see if the moose gets out of the way on it's own? I'm all for defending yourself against a charging animal, but this guy made some bad judgment calls by getting himself too close to the moose.


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## klbzdad

You never know when those wild critters are going to get even with stupid people.....


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## Kevin D

Totally avoidable. When a moose is facing you with it's head down like that and its hackles raised, back off and give it space. It's not looking for a fight, but if you push it, like the dude did, then it will come after you......that is just moose psychology 101.

Years of pulling dogs with a snowmobile through moose country has taught me a few things about what you can and can't do. The dude needs to go back to the city.


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## 12many

I agree with Kevin, Totally avoidable


Kevin D said:


> The dude needs to go back to the city.


The first charge was a bluff, then the guy inched the sled forward leading to a second charge, what a scary thing.


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## utskidad

I've seen ambulance drivers in less of a hurry. Did he win the race? (You know, the one in his head.)


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## derekp1999

I've had a number of close encounters with moose throughout the years, the instances during the rut have been the most intense, but I've never had to take action like that.
I think it was a totally avoidable situation with a little patience and distance by the rider. Too bad it ended the way it did & even moreso that it ended up online.


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## Fowlmouth

I agree it was avoidable. Instead of riding closer to the moose he should have sat back and let the moose have some room. He was yelling and moving his sled closer and certainly agitated the moose. The other part of the video that pizzes me off is the moose is still kicking when he drives by him. He should have stopped the sled and made sure the moose was dead. I think the guy was mostly upset about his sled getting trashed. What a douche!


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## nickpan

Totally avoidable. A little patience would have went a long ways here....


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## Vanilla

In the law there is a defense of necessity available where someone says, "Yes, I broke the law (IE-shot a moose without a tag) but only because I *HAD* to do it. I had no other reasonable alternative."

When the question of whether this guy was justified or not is posed, I have to respond with a question: Was there not a single other legal option available to him that would have been reasonable to do? If you that there was not another reasonable, legal option for him, there is one more part of that defense. The person can't put themselves in the position of having to make that choice.

Based upon the above, I do not believe the guy was justified in what he did. He had other options. It's a sad tale that this beast gets put down over human error. Much like the bear that has to be put down because we people don't know to keep a camp clean. Never sits too well with me.


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## Rspeters

The guy should have stayed back and let the moose pass. The whole thing could have easily been avoided.


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## Bo0YaA

The moose appears to be a young bull (look at 00:34 mark) which I have found to be more dangerous than big old bulls. It appears the bull was walking towards them from the beginning and I think the intent behind creeping forward was to try and convince him to turn around and go the direction he came from. However, I think the bull had no intention of leaving the snowmobile trail as it made for easy walking. Notice how deep the snow is when he goes off the trail after the first attack (00:45). That plus how dense the forest seems to be keeps the guys from being able to go around him. Finally, from the way it looked to me, the bull was turning to make a third charge when the guy shot. IMHO totally justified and I would have done the same thing.

Oh and Reverend Green did it in the Ballroom with a candlestick :grin:


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## utahgolf

he got way too close to the moose to begin with and the moose even gave him a bluff courtesy charge to warn him and still the moron snowmobiler gave the moose zero time and moved closer. I would've done everything possible to avoid that. turn around, wait and take pics, throw snowballs at it from a distance to scare it or at the final stage fire some warning shots to scare it off. BUT there obviously was a threat and due to STUPIDITY, you could call it justified. People like that shouldn't carry firearms, way too eager to use them instead of common sense. If he wasn't packing a gun, I bet he might've acted a little more cautiously. Carrying a gun might be a right but carrying some common sense needs to go with it!


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## Springville Shooter

utahgolf said:


> he got way too close to the moose to begin with and the moose even gave him a bluff courtesy charge to warn him and still the moron snowmobiler gave the moose zero time and moved closer. I would've done everything possible to avoid that. turn around, wait and take pics, throw snowballs at it from a distance to scare it or at the final stage fire some warning shots to scare it off. BUT there obviously was a threat and due to STUPIDITY, you could call it justified. People like that shouldn't carry firearms, way too eager to use them instead of common sense. If he wasn't packing a gun, I bet he might've acted a little more cautiously. Carrying a gun might be a right but carrying some common sense needs to go with it!


While I agree with most of your points! I don't think the trail was wide enough for a turn around. Is anyone else surprised at how fast that handgun put that moose down. Wonder what caliber/bullet?----SS


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## Kevin D

You can't provoke an attack, then claim self defense....the law doesn't allow it. By the dude continuing to creep up with his sled and pressure the moose even after it backed off, that was provocation. In my mind, the dude was just being a dumbass not justified in using deadly force. I hope he was cited.

Again, I have been in that same situation several times, including once having a moose stomp on the hood of my snowmobile. Even then, I never felt I had to kill the moose to save myself. While moose may not behave like a deer or elk when confronted, they are predictable. Back off, give them space, and everybody walks away happy.


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## RandomElk16

Kevin D said:


> You can't provoke an attack, then claim self defense....the law doesn't allow it. By the dude continuing to creep up with his sled and pressure the moose even after it backed off, that was provocation. In my mind, the dude was just being a dumbass not justified in using deadly force. I hope he was cited.
> 
> Again, I have been in that same situation several times, including once having a moose stomp on the hood of my snowmobile. Even then, I never felt I had to kill the moose to save myself. While moose may not behave like a deer or elk when confronted, they are predictable. Back off, give them space, and everybody walks away happy.


He just seemed almost too ready with that gun... Like whelp I p***** a moose off, gonna have to shoot it!

Just seemed like a macho man showdown. I dunno, I am making a bunch of assumptions about the kinda guy he is, but I picture a certain kinda ego.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I picture a guy that was confused and scared to say the least. I have little doubt that it could have been avoided but when the rubber meets the road better a dead moose than a dead me.

I also am not a big fan swerving to miss a deer. I would rather call the insurance company and not put my family at risk.


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## berrysblaster

Easily avoided but given the circumstances had to be done


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## DallanC

Begs the question, how many carry when out snowmobiling or riding? (I do).


-DallanC


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## Kevin D

DallanC said:


> Begs the question, how many carry when out snowmobiling or riding? (I do).
> 
> -DallanC


 I do too, but that's usually cuz I'm hunting something...


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## berrysblaster

I do


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## DallanC

I actually had a K9 incident (attack) Sunday. Way higher chance of using a weapon against a 4 legged critter than a 2 legged one. 


-DallanC


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## DarKHorN

Way avoidable.. Pretty sure there is multiple spots he could have blazed a new trail around the moose. After the the warning plunge he should have put the sled in reverse and backed away. Sometimes you gotta get your azz off the seat and ride, dam city slicker.


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## RandomElk16

He didn't look comfused or scared. My ladies first time around a moose she turned and went the opposite way. Scared people don't go TOWARD danger. Even if you don't turn around, you wait. He had a gun he was comfortable using. So wait and be prepared in case it happens. He seemed in a hurry.

The video is a whole MINUTE FOURTEEN!

After the moose attacked it was justified. It just makes me think of when people in alaska walk up to grizzly's and don't expect to get ate. It was provoked.


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## GaryFish

The old adage "mess with the bull, you'll get the horns" comes to mind. Provoke an animal to attack, continue to provoke, and as it's walking away, bust off some caps? Really? 

My other thought is I wonder if this guy is related to the guys that knocked down the goblin in Goblin Valley and put the video on YouTube? 

Idiot.


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## Airborne

First off everyone needs to understand that Go Pro cameras are 'fisheyed' and stuff that looks far away is way closer than it appears. When the guy rolled forward on the moose it was to try to scare him off the trail and that moose was pretty darn close even before he moved forward. his second move forward was only about a foot if that and again I think he was trying to scare the moose off.

Second, look at the shadow of the guy. He did not have his gun ready or drawn until after the second charge--this guy was not out to kill a moose, he had to dig out his gun, and chamber a round to defend himself.

Could the guy have stayed back and waited and would that have helped the situation--MAYBE! some of you guys on this forum seem to know what alternative time lines lead to and know what the future results would be, also you seem to know what happened before the video started which amazes me. You don't know the future and you don't fully understand the entire situation, thereby don't make certainty based statements.

There are three things I will say about the video and its opinion based on what I saw and believe

first: don't ever post videos like this online--so stupid and does nothing to help your situation or anyone elses--it just ticks people off

second: that handgun did it's job

third: I would kill every moose in the state of Utah if it meant saving the life of a human


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## GaryFish

Just going on what was in the movie - and you make a great point Airborne - we don't know what was going on before the movie started. That is absolutely true. But just going on what we do see in the movie - the guy comes upon a moose in the trail, and in less than 75 seconds, has dispatched it with his hand gun. 

Now, as so many others have done also, I've come across my share of moose in the wild. Some on trails, others in rivers, others on the road, etc.... And in not a single occasion, have I had a conflict. Why? Because I've been patient enough to wait it out. One time fly fishing, I waited out 15 minutes, while the moose wandered down the stream, less than 10 yards from me. Yes, I left the stream to give the moose the path, and I waited. 

While canoeing in Island Park, a cow with calf wandered in the river in front of me. I stopped my canoe and gave them their space. We were less than 10 yards when we first came on them - coming around a corner in a very similar fashion - but I stopped our progress and waited so I didn't come between the moose and her calf. 

This guy in the video did not wait. Why move towards the moose at all? Why not shut off the sled, wait for your buddy, and take some pictures? He didn't even wait 60 seconds before the gun came out. He didn't even wait 30 seconds before he made moves towards the moose. He didn't even wait long enough for his sledding buddies to catch up with him. 

Yes, we don't know everything about the story. We only know what is shown in the video. But in my opinion, based on what we do know, the guy should have taken some time to give the moose some space. 

If the guy stopped, waited out the moose, and then it made aggressive moves and refused to yield, that is something different. But this guy didn't wait at all as is shown in the video. It is true he didn't fire until after the moose head butted his sled, so I guess he probably felt threatened and would be justified. But I think the failure was not giving the moose its space and time to begin with, and provoking it with his own "bluff charge" on the sled.


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## Bo0YaA

Wait for what? the moose to walk right up to them and do exactly what it did?. He had no intention of leaving the trail. Ive witnessed this many times, moose have very little patience for humans. I watched a big bull moose walk straight at deer hunters forcing them to move because the moose wanted to go where the moose wanted to go. The rider was trying to use his sled to scare the moose back the way it came, obviously it didnt work. That being said I still believe the outcome would have been the same had they shut off the machines and waited. It just would have taken a little longer to play out.


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## KineKilla

Why do some of us carry a gun when out hiking, riding or scouting? This is exactly the reason. 

No, he didn't have to creep forward after first seeing the moose, but if you look at the 3-4' snow banks on the side of the trail, turning around also wasn't much of an option. I'd have sat where I was, yelled, revved the engine, fired a couple warnings if need be...but that's me.

I don't know about any of you but regardless of how it happens, getting charged twice is too many for me. The moose could have killed this guy on the first charge. I refuse to be found dead in the woods having been mauled or stomped to death while I still have bullets in my gun.


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## GaryFish

You very well could be right Booya. Even after waiting, the same outcome may have happened. But why not wait more than 30 seconds? Why not give it 5 minutes? Why not wait for your buddy to come up and see the moose? Take a chill for a minute, have a drink of water and a candy bar? If there are two sleds, would that have changed what the moose did? A little patience in this kind of a deal is never a bad thing.


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## Airborne

We don't know what happened before the video began, maybe the guy sat there for an hour and the moose worked up to him and as a last resort he tried to use the sled to scare it. My conjecture is just as valid is yours and none of it is fact based. We don't know so all we are really doing here is arguing about what we don't know--very similar to a religious discussion!

Why the heck am I here again--aw yeah, waiting for that report to populate--back at it then.


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## GaryFish

Fair enough.


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## utahgolf

If a moose bluff charges you and you still continue forward, than do yourself and animals a favor and stay at home.


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## Rspeters

I don't believe it's irresponsible to make certain assumptions regarding the circumstances here. Is it possible that there's much more that happened before the video? Yes. For all I know an alien ship hovered over the trail, lowered the moose down onto that trail in front of those snowmobilers, and told it to attack them. However that's not likely. Based on the actions of that person in the video I believe he acted irresponsibly putting himself in harm's way by provoking the moose to the point that it attacked him.


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## wyogoob

Rspeters said:


> I don't believe it's irresponsible to make certain assumptions regarding the circumstances here. Is it possible that there's much more that happened before the video? Yes. For all I know an alien ship hovered over the trail, lowered the moose down onto that trail in front of those snowmobilers, and told it to attack them.............*Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.*QUOTE]


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## goonsquad

You guys, expecting a man on a machine to give the trail to an animal!?!?! WHAAAAT? 
Its not like the guy had the ability to just go off trail and around the beast... wait, oh yeah he was on a machine made to do just that... 

The guy was a jerk who crowded in, revved up his engine and then continued to spook an animal that is already stressed by the season. Hope he gets that block confiscated.


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## wyogoob

I thought it was rare that a Glock could fire that many times without jamming.

It was a short video, prolly edited.


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## DallanC

wyogoob said:


> I thought it was rare that a Glock could fire that many times without jamming.
> 
> It was a short video, prolly edited.


No they can fire that many without jamming just fine, its just the next couple of rounds in a row that cause it to blow up in your hand :mrgreen:










-DallanC


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## wyogoob

DallanC said:


> No they can fire that many without jamming just fine, its just the next couple of rounds in a row that cause it to blow up in your hand :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -DallanC


Ah, ha, ha, ha, ha

I was waiting for you. You came faster than I thought


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## DallanC

wyogoob said:


> I was waiting for you


You've said that now in several threads... seems a bit wierd but whatever, everyone needs a hobby.

-DallanC


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## Vanilla

KineKilla said:


> Why do some of us carry a gun when out hiking, riding or scouting? This is exactly the reason.


Some of us carry a gun out in the woods to irresponsibly provoke wildlife and then shoot them? Because that is exactly what happened here, from my perspective.


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## Nambaster

This scenario is nothing short of wildlife harassment.

If this moose were a vulnerable woman in an abandoned parking garage the snowmobiler definitely would have been tazed, shot or pepper sprayed in the face for his actions. 

He notices the victim from a distance and whoops and hollers on approach. After the first "whoa whoa whoa" (where the snowmobiler realizes that he may have put himself in a dangerous position) the moose provided the snowmobiler with a warning prior to engaging in any physical behavior. 

This guy ignores the fact that he almost provoked a confrontation and then continues to pursue the moose and advances his snowmobile again. By this time anyone would have acted in self-defense towards the snowmobiler and he definitely got what he deserved. The moose only decided to engage after observing the pursuant in his peripheral view advancing a 2nd time. 

A 3rd time the snowmobiler is counseled by his friend at 48 seconds in to "let him go" then the peripherals of the moose cause his natural instincts to defend himself from the 3rd advance of the snowmobiler and the shots are fired. 

The snowmobiler’s life was never jeopardized as he had a method of retreat. The only exposure to vulnerability belonged entirely to the moose for 100% of the incident. Engagement was un-necessarily provoked by the recreational rider. The intentions of the moose were wholesome and directly influenced with his natural instincts for survival. The intentions of the snowmobile operator cannot be proved to be of equal transparency.

There is no justification for this man’s behavior. As an owner of several firearms it disappoints me that this guy would post this video publicly. This type of exposure demonstrates this guy’s poor judgment of self-defense. He has allowed gun ownership to inflate his ego and broadcasted his idiocy on the internet.


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## pheaz

Well said ^^^^


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## Springville Shooter

We need to get rid of those darned "stand your ground" laws. First Treyvon now this!! What's the world coming to?-------SS


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## Mr Muleskinner

I am just hopeful that I don't run into a scenario that is on a crappy video like this and I have this crowd for my jury. It amazes me how people can draw so much unequivocal proof from what exist.

Just curious.........can any of you determine what he drives, what he had for breakfast or where he might work from this?


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## Airborne

Dang SS, I was just about to post that! I wonder if that moose was a human of a darker complection would we get the same responses we are getting here. I sure as heck would hate to have some of you on any jury-good grief! 

Question for the pro moose brigade. If you had little wildlife training or experience like the vast majority of Americans then how do you generally get an animal to move out of your way? Did this doofus act differently than somebody in your family would have that doesn't know moose behavior? Should we have mandatory moose training classes in order to enter the woods? Government mandated of course, along with other various scenarios one could encounter? 

It's pretty darn funny that somebody posts a pic of a moose that they killed on this forum while that moose was minding his own business and we sing praises for the shooter. This moose tries to kill a doof and some of you craaap yo' pants!. Classic


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## pheaz

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Just curious.........can any of you determine what he drives, what he had for breakfast or where he might work from this?


Nope but we can see he is on a powder sled with reverse. With plenty of open area to go around the moose. Really a warning shot to head and atleast put the moose out of misery. For he11 sakes people are actually sticking up for this azz clown.


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## Nambaster

Maybe I am missing the part in the video where this moose is packing heat and brandished his colt .45, from what I observed the moose did not incorporate deadly force in his own self defense. 

I would take back every word that I just barely posted if I discovered that this moose had this poor snowmobilers daughter held captive in an under ground moose layer and had requested a ransom of $100,000,000.00 otherwise his moose cronies were going to ship his daughter out to an undisclosed location where she would be trafficked as a sex slave. 

As of right now killing a moose legally and sharing time in the outdoors for the experience is what life is all about. In the video I observed one less opportunity eliminated from a very limited resource pool because this idiot was not willing to either wait, maintain distance, or drive by the moose. 

Once again if this man had some kind of personal vendetta against moose I guess he would be some what validated in his behavior (maybe his parents were killed in an auto collision with a moose). The fact that the video reached the forum and the internet demonstrates that his ego needs caressing. Those types seem to portray gun ownership as less of a responsibility than what it really is.


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## Vanilla

Look, ultimately the guy did what he had to do in the end. I'm not opposed to self-defense whether the danger is human or animal. What bothers me is it didn't have to come to that, and from the way I saw it on the video, this guy caused this to happen. 

No, he was not justified in my mind. He caused this, not some rabid attacker moose. That moose didn't need to die if this guy would have been responsible. I don't have to know what he had for breakfast or the model of his sled, because it is irrelevant. I guess I forgot the part about being a responsible sportsman where we venture into wild country without a tag, provoke the animals, and shoot then when they get annoyed by us. In some circles that is called poaching...

Comparing this to legally harvesting an animal is simply ridiculous. That is all I will say about that.


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## Mr Muleskinner

pheaz said:


> Nope but we can see he is on a powder sled with reverse. With plenty of open area to go around the moose. Really a warning shot to head and atleast put the moose out of misery. For he11 sakes people are actually sticking up for this azz clown.


I never claimed he made all the right moves. I also, nor do ANY of you have any idea what happened before the video started. Nor does anybody know the state of mind of the guy even though many have already performed a full psychoanalysis. Amazes me how some of you judge others on here for posting an opinion when NOBODY knows the full context of what happened. Easy to play Captain Hindsight when the full picture isn't painted.


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## Springville Shooter

The guy is a dummy for sure but after the charge where the moose kicked his hood, he was clearly in a lot of danger. I'm sorry, but no animals life is worth a human life.....even a stupid human. I would, however, be totally fine with this guy receiving a large citation for his transgressions. I hike on the Wasatch and have run into several moose who have held their ground. Luckily I have always been able to retreat without an issue. IF one ever makes the mistake of charging me, I will empty my clip of 45 into it without second thought. If my kids are with me, the fuse gets even shorter. Difference is, I won't be stupid enough to post a video on the internet and put myself before the jury of bleeding heart moose lovers. My transgression would be removing the tenderloins and having a BBQ before notifying the warden.------SS


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## utahgolf

common sense here people,, if an animal bluff charges you, then you don't continue moving forward towards it!!!!!!!! I don't care what happened before any of that, that's all I needed to see... Ultimately I agree with him drawing his gun and defending himself but that's because his careless/moronic actions put himself in a dangerous situation and a moose isn't more important than a person, even if the person isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.


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## Rspeters

Springville Shooter said:


> The guy is a dummy for sure but after the charge where the moose kicked his hood, he was clearly in a lot of danger. I'm sorry, but no animals life is worth a human life.....even a stupid human. I would, however, be totally fine with this guy receiving a large citation for his transgressions...------SS


I agree with what you said in this post. Although I don't love this guy's actions, and I think I would do things a bit differently, I agree that it is better for a moose to lose its life than for me, or my family to be in danger of losing theirs. And like you, my fuse would definitely be short if one of my children were on the sled behind me.


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## Vanilla

I have yet to see anyone say this guy should have let the moose trample him and eat his children. Good heavens! Call me what you want, I don't like seeing jack wagons with an itchy trigger finger kill protected wildlife unnecessarily. This wasn't necessary. It was 100% avoidable. That is the issue. And as he unnecessarily caused it, he should be accountable. A citation with a decent fine would probably satisfy that. 

Hopefully something good will come of this and people that see it will actually use their friggin brains when in wild places, unlike this guy in the video.


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## Springville Shooter

And I have yet to see anyone defending his stupid actions that led up to the confrontation. So it looks like we are pretty much in agreement TS. We all make mistakes and act foolishly sometimes. This guy just decided to showcase his stupidity on the WWW. Honestly, I have done stupider crap in my life, especially between 18 and 21. Although no moose ever died in my misadventures, the same cannot be said about an emu........-----SS


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## Vanilla

SS-

Actually there have been multiple people defending it, you just weren't one of them. 

Let's hear the emu story. The statute of limitations has had to have run by now....


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## NevadaMax

I would have never provoked the bluff charge... There was an opportunity to avoid it and we all know where that occurred. Any sportsman would have watched from afar and avoided confrontation. The guy provoked the animal and kept moving forward despite the warning signs. Had he not been on a snowmobile, he would have turned tail just like any other hunter/hiker/outdoor enthusiast who found themselves way too close to a moose. Who posts this???? What good came from this? This is a lob pitch to anti's around the globe.


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## NevadaMax

His defense should have been "putting it in reverse" and vacating the area NOT unholstering a weapon, working the action and firing. Imagine if this was a pedestrian.....as a matter of fact, here in Vegas, we have an ongoing investigation about a driver running down a pedestrian at a gas station in a similar manner (constantly progressing in an aggressive fashion) and now the driver is wanted for attempted manslaughter... On a machine that reaches up to 60mph, I think a slight pause would not be a detriment or a hindrance to the day's activities.


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## klbzdad

I posted it to generate discussion which hopefully educates fellow sportsmen and offers forethought should they themselves end up in this situation. Regardless of how anyone would have handled the circumstances, talking about it among ourselves is how we educate one another and that is the good I was looking for. Plus, even those who disagree have been mostly civil. 

FWIW...This is not my video. I have no idea who the people are.


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## Bo0YaA

Its easy to say he provoked the charge, but what would you have said if by inching forward on the machine the moose was convinced to move off in another direction. I'm guessing you would all say "Yup that's what I would have done". Oh and I love the guys who say "Just turn around" is that before or after you cut down the surrounding dense forest? I'm a realist that has had quite a few dealings with moose and in my opinion the only way out of this situation was to reverse back to the next wide spot on the trail and go the other direction. But again, I'm curious how many of the guys up on their "protector of the wilderness" pedestals would actually do that vs thinking they could intimidate the moose out of their way. The guy figured he could convince the moose to move and he was wrong but who knows maybe the other 9 of 10 times it worked. A ton of unknown factors here. I'm with SS on this one, Im not even going to risk getting injured. Back in the woods who knows how far in the cold with a p!ssed off 900-1200 lb animal trying to cause me injury. Yup its goin down, sorry Ill sort out the details with the CO later but at least I'm alive to do so.


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## Kevin D

Just an observation, but I have had more bad moose encounters on a snowmobile than I ever had on a foot, wheeler, truck, or motorcycle. I'm not exactly sure if it's because winter stress makes them cranky, deep snow makes them less likely to yield the trail, they hate the annoying noise, or because sleds ride closer to the ground. All I know is that moose hate snowmobiles.


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## utahgolf

Kevin D said:


> Just an observation, but I have had more bad moose encounters on a snowmobile than I ever had on a foot, wheeler, truck, or motorcycle. I'm not exactly sure if it's because winter stress makes them cranky, deep snow makes them less likely to yield the trail, they hate the annoying noise, or because sleds ride closer to the ground. All I know is that moose hate snowmobiles.


a golf cart makes them cranky too! and they don't scare off. you reverse and get the heck outta there!


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## Airborne

I guess there is one good thing that can come from this video--a greater awareness of moose behavior and how to treat them in the woods. Who knows--maybe this video will save some other 'mooses' and 'doofuses' :grin:


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## El Matador

Bo0YaA said:


> The rider was trying to use his sled to scare the moose back the way it came, obviously it didnt work. That being said I still believe the outcome would have been the same had they shut off the machines and waited. It just would have taken a little longer to play out.


If you believe the moose would have charged a guy sitting there minding his own business you must not have encountered many moose in your day. I see them every year, often times right on the trail I ride. They don't charge me when I sit there and wait. If I were to yell and threaten them the outcome may be different.

This guy should be prosecuted for poaching, no question. The moose was very patient with the approaching idiot - he even gave a mock charge to show that he felt threatened. The fool then charges back? I've been charged by dangerous game, and also mock charged a few times, and I can tell you that it never entered my mind to charge back. What makes this worse is that he killed the moose when it was just standing there, not attacking, not charging.


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## klbzdad

"Aw, you're a mean little girl!"

"First time I ever got beat up by a baby moose!"


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## Springville Shooter

TS30 said:


> SS-
> 
> Actually there have been multiple people defending it, you just weren't one of them.
> 
> Let's hear the emu story. The statute of limitations has had to have run by now....


Back in the late 90's, the emu market crashed and many ranchers simply turned them loose to collect insurance money. As a stupid 17 year old tough guy I thought it would be fun to "catch" one and take it home. Soon I was way over my head and in the fight of my life. A buddy tried to come to my rescue and received a gash worthy of 10 stitches for his efforts. Bottom line is that I was getting beat to crap and the bird showed no intention of letting up. I finally got a hold of its neck and kinked it like a garden hose. Soon, the wings, feet, and beak slowed up and I was able to finally get away from the devil bird. Somewhere in the mix I actually broke its neck and it soon expired from its injuries. I sustained black eyes, several deep cuts, some bad peck marks, and all of my clothes were torn to shreds. It might sound silly but in reality I was in serious danger because of my own stupidity. Do I feel bad about the bird? Not one bit. Enjoy the laughs.-----SS


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## Bo0YaA

El Matador said:


> If you believe the moose would have charged a guy sitting there minding his own business you must not have encountered many moose in your day. I see them every year, often times right on the trail I ride. They don't charge me when I sit there and wait. If I were to yell and threaten them the outcome may be different.
> 
> This guy should be prosecuted for poaching, no question. The moose was very patient with the approaching idiot - he even gave a mock charge to show that he felt threatened. The fool then charges back? I've been charged by dangerous game, and also mock charged a few times, and I can tell you that it never entered my mind to charge back. What makes this worse is that he killed the moose when it was just standing there, not attacking, not charging.


Just the opposite, Ive been the guy sitting there minding my own business when a young bull decided he wanted to be exactly where I was. He was well aware of the fact I was sitting there even from 60 or so yards away. I figured he has something to prove as he lowered his head and headed straight for me. I was holding my 300wm so I never felt in any real danger so allowed him to get to within 20 yards the first time before raising my voice at him which did seem to change his mind for a minute. Second time he came back he got to within 15 yards with head lowered. As I slowly backed away he followed me head lowered snorting and grunting in an aggressive manner. I will admit it scared me a little and I did something stupid as a result, I bluff charged him waving my arms and screaming at him. It kinda freaked him out and he turned tail and ran about 50 yards away into the the thick timber. I really didn't want to leave the spot I was in because it had taken me a long time to hike in and it was a great vantage point for two different little canyons. Well it wasn't 10 min later he came back a third time head down steady pace straight at me. It was obvious that this time yelling and waving my arms was not going to work. He closed the distance fast and even as I backed away in a large zig zag pattern he followed me. He got to within 10 yards and that's when the 300 came up to my shoulder. He held at 10 yards but followed me another 60 yards down the mountain at which point he turned and went back the original spot it all started. He stood in that spot and looked at me for 5 min as though to tell me he was the king of the mountain. At any point during the final encounter I would have felt justified in taking his life had he gotten any closer. I was alone, a mile+ away from the road in some steep country. Moose aren't these fuzzy little innocent critters some of you want to make them out to be. They are big hairy bullies of the mountain and in the cases Ive either seen or been part of, they go out of their way to show you whos boss. This bull picked the wrong day, the wrong trail and the wrong guy to try and push around. As a result it cost him his life.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I was bow hunting up East Canyon several years ago and hiking a long a trail in very thick cover. I came out to a clearing that was about 100 yards long and 50 yards wide. At the end of clearing stood a lone cow moose. I stood there for a minute, the cow lowered her head and started pawing the ground. I backed up a bit into the brush and cow came right at me. I started running away but needless to say the cow could out run me and closed to within about 10 yards in a matter of seconds. I ran off the trail and just dove into the thick brush. If I stayed on the trail I am certain I would have been stomped near to death. The oak brush was far to thick to run in so I just got as far into the brush as quickly as I could. The moose followed me right in and was stomping the ground all around me while I laid balled up in the thick brush. It stomped the back of my leg a couple of times and stayed there for several minutes while I just tried to play dead. Finally it left and I stayed on the ground and just waited a bit longer. When I got up I realized that I had pissed my pants. I got to a vantage point and saw the cow was headed down a ravine with no calf around. I did nothing other than walk within 100 yards of it. Never made a move towards it after I saw it and the thing just wanted me dead. I assure you that if I had a sidearm on me at the time I would have gladly unloaded on it.

I have carried a sidearm in the woods ever since. Moose are the most dangerous animals in the woods IMO.

Has nothing to do with the video on this thread and I don't condone what led up to the shooting but to think that all you need to do is give a beast it's space and retreat is foolish.


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## DallanC

Springville Shooter said:


> Back in the late 90's, the emu market crashed and many ranchers simply turned them loose to collect insurance money. As a stupid 17 year old tough guy I thought it would be fun to "catch" one and take it home. Soon I was way over my head and in the fight of my life. A buddy tried to come to my rescue and received a gash worthy of 10 stitches for his efforts. Bottom line is that I was getting beat to crap and the bird showed no intention of letting up. I finally got a hold of its neck and kinked it like a garden hose. Soon, the wings, feet, and beak slowed up and I was able to finally get away from the devil bird. Somewhere in the mix I actually broke its neck and it soon expired from its injuries. I sustained black eyes, several deep cuts, some bad peck marks, and all of my clothes were torn to shreds. It might sound silly but in reality I was in serious danger because of my own stupidity. Do I feel bad about the bird? Not one bit. Enjoy the laughs.-----SS


LMAO, love the story! Reminds me of a time me and a friend decided to catch a "doe" deer. We had a pretty good laugh about it after we managed to crawl back to the truck and got the bleeding under control.

Somewhere out on the net is a story about a Deer on a Rope... its a good read and I can testify the result is pretty darn accurate.

-DallanC


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## El Matador

Booyaa, a moose coming toward you to let you know you're in his territory is a far cry from having one charge and trample you. The bull you're talking about gave you several warnings, each time becoming a little more clear in his communication. You, just like the poor soul in the video, seem to think you own the woods and get your pride hurt when an animal infringes on your recreation. You didn't understand his simple form of communication and put yourself in danger by not paying attention to what was being said. When an animal of that size tells me to get out of his way I tend to oblige him. Other people start shooting and say they were attacked. 

I know that moose and other animals can be dangerous even when you do everything you can to diffuse the situation, but it's rare. My argument is simply that 99% of the time you can read an animal's body language and everyone will go home happy and alive. My life has been in danger with animals a number of times. One time was just bad luck (stumbled upon a pride of lions with newborn cubs while on foot), another time we nearly lost a vehicle and put lives at risk because the body language of a bull rhinoceros was not heeded. I've had numerous encounters with elephants while driving the 2-track dirt roads in Botswana. They will not move until they are ready. Try to clear a road hog by honking and revving the engine of your Toyota Hilux and you may end up flatter than a buffalo chip. In Africa people respect the animals and give them the right of way. I would love to see the brave moose killer deal with a cape buff or an elephant.


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## 90redryder

The worst decision he made was to post the video on the Internet so everyone could say how stupid his choices were. I would have shot the darn thing too. Clearly it was coming back for a third charge, he didn't look like he was in a position to get that snowmobile turned around quickly so the next best option is to fight back. I was in a similar position last fall, after meeting up with the dwr I had the officer telling me that he would have pulled the trigger earlier in the confrontation than I did. It's a whole different ball game when you are the one in that situation, don't be too quick to judge it's a tough decision to make in a split second only a true coward would let himself get mauled without putting up a fight for fear of getting in trouble.


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## Bo0YaA

lol I don't think I own the forest, I think I hiked in for nearly 2 hours to reach that spot and wasn't overly excited about having to give it up to some stupid moose. It would have been much easier for him to go some other direction that it was me based on the terrain. But being the bullies they are, he got what he wanted in the end. Hes just lucky he didn't push the envelope further than he did. I didn't want to put him down but was willing to had he shown any further signs of aggression. I'm never going to be the guy that waits to see if a "bluff charge" is actually a bluff. Had he charged me bluff or not, he would have been coyote food end of story. Like I said, I'm a realist and the reality is if its not a bluff I'm messed up on a hillside alone 2 hrs from my truck. I for one am just not willing to take that chance, kudos to you if you are.


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## Vanilla

The funny thing about your example, booyah, is you did everything right. You backed away, stayed safe, and respected the fact that you were in wild places. You say now you felt justified to kill it at any time in the second encounter, however I think that is just talk now to try and prove your point. You didn't feel justified, because you didn't do it. You're only justified if you're in real danger, you handled it appropriately so that danger never came. Good on you for doing it right. This joker should have followed your example. 

As for them being 'bullies of the mountain'....well, it's their mountain, not ours. I assume you wouldn't like it if a strange dude suddenly appeared in your backyard, or better yet...house, and posed a danger to you. You might act like a 'bully' and want him to leave too. Us people aren't much different than the animals we like to pursue in that aspect. We all have a fight or flight mechanism when challenged. My opinion is when you go to wild places, it's our duty to flight, not fight, except for as a very last option after all other options are gone.


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## Bo0YaA

What I said was, "I would have felt justified in taking his life had he gotten any closer" & "I didn't want to put him down but was willing to had he shown any further signs of aggression". Meaning, if rather than escorting me off the mountain he had acted like the bull in the video, I would have put it down on the first charge, bluff or not.


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## Springville Shooter

El Matador said:


> Booyaa, a moose coming toward you to let you know you're in his territory is a far cry from having one charge and trample you. The bull you're talking about gave you several warnings, each time becoming a little more clear in his communication. You, just like the poor soul in the video, seem to think you own the woods and get your pride hurt when an animal infringes on your recreation. You didn't understand his simple form of communication and put yourself in danger by not paying attention to what was being said. When an animal of that size tells me to get out of his way I tend to oblige him. Other people start shooting and say they were attacked.
> 
> I know that moose and other animals can be dangerous even when you do everything you can to diffuse the situation, but it's rare. My argument is simply that 99% of the time you can read an animal's body language and everyone will go home happy and alive. My life has been in danger with animals a number of times. One time was just bad luck (stumbled upon a pride of lions with newborn cubs while on foot), another time we nearly lost a vehicle and put lives at risk because the body language of a bull rhinoceros was not heeded. I've had numerous encounters with elephants while driving the 2-track dirt roads in Botswana. They will not move until they are ready. Try to clear a road hog by honking and revving the engine of your Toyota Hilux and you may end up flatter than a buffalo chip. In Africa people respect the animals and give them the right of way. I would love to see the brave moose killer deal with a cape buff or an elephant.


Well, I respect your opinion and experience but maintain that the law does not require a person to take the risk in trying to guess what an animal is trying to "tell" them. You handle things your way, I'll handle them mine. To me, the life of a wild animal is not even worth the risk of my being injured let alone killed. Sorry if that makes you mad but thems the ropes. Some still hold human life and well being above the whims of a feisty wild animal. I do agree that we all have the responsibility to avoid confrontation if possible but we also each have the right to defend ourselves as soon as we feel threatened on an INDIVIDUAL basis. Just because you might not feel threatened in a certain situation doesn't mean that the next guy might feel differently.-------SS


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## Springville Shooter

90redryder said:


> The worst decision he made was to post the video on the Internet so everyone could say how stupid his choices were. I would have shot the darn thing too. Clearly it was coming back for a third charge, he didn't look like he was in a position to get that snowmobile turned around quickly so the next best option is to fight back. I was in a similar position last fall, after meeting up with the dwr I had the officer telling me that he would have pulled the trigger earlier in the confrontation than I did. It's a whole different ball game when you are the one in that situation, don't be too quick to judge it's a tough decision to make in a split second only a true coward would let himself get mauled without putting up a fight for fear of getting in trouble.


My vote for best post on this thread. Spot on!--------SS


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## DallanC

You all think he just had the glock in a breast pocket or did he have some kind of shoulder holster? Kindof a big gun for a breast pocket.


-DallanC


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## klbzdad

DallanC said:


> You all think he just had the glock in a breast pocket or did he have some kind of shoulder holster? Kindof a big gun for a breast pocket.
> 
> -DallanC


My G23 fits nicely in my snowmobile jacket breast pocket. Only I keep mine loaded.


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## Springville Shooter

If this guy was carrying a manly sidearm like a Kimber, Perhaps the moose would have had second thoughts and the whole tragedy could have been averted?-O|o-------SS


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## 90redryder

I wish I knew what caliber and bullets he was using. It sure did the job on a large angry animal. I'd guess it was a .40 and he must have hit it in the head for it to go down so fast.


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## Elkaholic2

After reviewing the video and a lot of good points being made in justified or not justified. I see a few things that I would have done different. There's a lot of speculation being made on what could've been done. Killing that moose was 100% avoidable.

Maybe this guy has no idea about moose behavior? I don't know what his education is. I know he can hit is target at close range!

First off it's not illegal to come across a moose! It wasn't harassment until he started pursuing the animal with his sled. Violation number one. There was another sled track going off to the left side that he could have used to get around this moose. 

Maybe he doesn't have the knowledge like most of us here. knowing that a wintering moose doesn't want to expend precious energy in deep snow when there is a perfectly packed down trail to be on. Knowing that, he may have found a way around him to prevent the very situation that a cured. I don't know about most of you. But I give moose more respect in space than black bears. Moose don't usually spook easy. 

I'm a big believer in protecting yourself! I also carry almost everywhere I go! But carrying comes with great responsibility! Which I feel in this case he pushed a tense situation to a point where he felt he had to use deadly force to resolve. Justified? I feel the moose felt the same way about him! Was the moose justified?

The pro wildlife groups are going to have a hay day over this one boys....

Some closing thoughts...

Wildlife crimes he could be charged with

- wildlife harassment 
- taking a bull moose out of season
- taking protected wildlife with out a license 
- wanton destruction and waste of wildlife
Was alcohol involved? 

Reflecting on my personal experiences:
I've been charged by bull moose before. And I never had to shoot one. And I had a rifle! 
I could've used the same excuse. I've ran into black bears eating deer guts twice now within forty yards. One false charged. I never had to shoot it. I sprayed it with pepper spray! Haha.. 

Justified? Let the jury decide. I'm sure that's where it's going to end up. My 2 cents... Not justified! I understand having an animal that weighs that Much come after you. It's an intense situation for sure.


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## Rspeters

In the end, like has been said before, the idiocy of this man is apparent by not only the video, but by the fact that he either posted, or allowed this video to be posted to the internet.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I will be the first to say that I have no idea about moose behavior. I have been around them most of my life but I still can't predict what they might do. They don't reason.......for some reason. Perhaps because they are in fact a freaking moose.

Same goes for women, kids and racehorses.


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## hoghunter011583

I hate moose, they scare me to death but I think this guy needs to be charged. He was in no danger at all from the start. He could have just let the moose move on or even turned around and ended his little snowmobile trip. The guy wanted to go where he wanted to go and that moose was not getting out of his way fast enough. I'm sure he would have played it a lot different if he would have been unarmed!! The moose was doing what moose do. Stand their ground and don't get out of your way. We like to go where we want to go and it has been my experience with many moose that when they see you they pretty much freeze and watch you. I've come across them and they are right on the trail where I want to go, I head up and around them and give them atleast 100 yards. That guy really needs to be charged!!


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## hoghunter011583

Elkaholic2 said:


> After reviewing the video and a lot of good points being made in justified or not justified. I see a few things that I would have done different. There's a lot of speculation being made on what could've been done. Killing that moose was 100% avoidable.
> 
> Maybe this guy has no idea about moose behavior? I don't know what his education is. I know he can hit is target at close range!
> 
> First off it's not illegal to come across a moose! It wasn't harassment until he started pursuing the animal with his sled. Violation number one. There was another sled track going off to the left side that he could have used to get around this moose.
> 
> Maybe he doesn't have the knowledge like most of us here. knowing that a wintering moose doesn't want to expend precious energy in deep snow when there is a perfectly packed down trail to be on. Knowing that, he may have found a way around him to prevent the very situation that a cured. I don't know about most of you. But I give moose more respect in space than black bears. Moose don't usually spook easy.
> 
> I'm a big believer in protecting yourself! I also carry almost everywhere I go! But carrying comes with great responsibility! Which I feel in this case he pushed a tense situation to a point where he felt he had to use deadly force to resolve. Justified? I feel the moose felt the same way about him! Was the moose justified?
> 
> The pro wildlife groups are going to have a hay day over this one boys....
> 
> Some closing thoughts...
> 
> Wildlife crimes he could be charged with
> 
> - wildlife harassment
> - taking a bull moose out of season
> - taking protected wildlife with out a license
> - wanton destruction and waste of wildlife
> Was alcohol involved?
> 
> Reflecting on my personal experiences:
> I've been charged by bull moose before. And I never had to shoot one. And I had a rifle!
> I could've used the same excuse. I've ran into black bears eating deer guts twice now within forty yards. One false charged. I never had to shoot it. I sprayed it with pepper spray! Haha..
> 
> Justified? Let the jury decide. I'm sure that's where it's going to end up. My 2 cents... Not justified! I understand having an animal that weighs that Much come after you. It's an intense situation for sure.


Great post!!

I'm going to give no excuses for this guy. Obviously he lives in moose country and is not a rookie snowmobiler. Why is he packing heat in the first place if he is clueless about danger being present in the woods?
He basically charged the moose acting like a big shot in front of his friends and was going to shush the moose away. 
This guy is in serious trouble and needs to be. He is making the choice to tread in the wilderness, it is up to him to educate himself about the animals in the wilderness and how to handle them, he is a grown man!!
He is carrying a firearm, he needs to be even more responsible than most!!

I don't hunt echo henefer WMA until all the cattle are rounded up because I know I'm really taking a chance on being charged, I'm not worried about my saftey, I have a 12 ga. shotgun. But those cattle are someones money and they are just doing what they do, I just hunt someplace else and avoid the confrontation!!


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## ridgetop

hoghunter011583 said:


> I hate moose, they scare me to death but I think this guy needs to be charged. He was in no danger at all from the start. He could have just let the moose move on or even turned around and ended his little snowmobile trip. The guy wanted to go where he wanted to go and that moose was not getting out of his way fast enough. I'm sure he would have played it a lot different if he would have been unarmed!! The moose was doing what moose do. Stand their ground and don't get out of your way. We like to go where we want to go and it has been my experience with many moose that when they see you they pretty much freeze and watch you. I've come across them and they are right on the trail where I want to go, I head up and around them and give them atleast 100 yards. That guy really needs to be charged!!


WOW! I couldn't disagree more.

klbzdad, thanks for bringing this to peoples attention.

Hopefully the DWR and Forrest Service will put up some info. signs at the trail heads about Moose behavior and how to avoid them when coming in contact with one.
People just need to be more educated about Moose behavior.


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## hoghunter011583

Ridgetop,
What do you think he should have done from the very start?
I think he should have stopped and tried to let it move on, if possible drive off trail and give him his trail.
Turn around and go play somewhere else.
Get off the snowmobile and climb a tree.
This guy seems to have lots of options from the very beginning. Once the moose was in his face obviously the man had no choice but the man created that situation. 
Bottom line, the man is the initial aggressor, just look who closed the gap the most!
I'm not saying he is guilty, that is what a court is for, I am saying he needs to be sitting in one soon!


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## ridgetop

hoghunter011583 said:


> Ridgetop,
> What do you think he should have done from the very start?
> I think he should have stopped and tried to let it move on, if possible drive off trail and give him his trail.
> Turn around and go play somewhere else.
> Get off the snowmobile and climb a tree.
> This guy seems to have lots of options from the very beginning. Once the moose was in his face obviously the man had no choice but the man created that situation.
> Bottom line, the man is the initial aggressor, just look who closed the gap the most!
> I'm not saying he is guilty, that is what a court is for, I am saying he needs to be sitting in one soon!


It sure seems like you think the guys guilty. 
Before I pass too much judgment, I would like to see what's on the video leading up to the time we see it. The way the guy is acting, he may have been pushing the Moose down the trail for a ways and the Moose got tired of it. He's acting like he's trying to herd a moo cow down a trail. If that was the case, then there would be cause for harassment. 
Also, right before he pulls out his gun, you can hear the guy from behind say...."get your glock". 
It sure looks like to me he tried a warning shot fist before the Moose started to come right at him again.
Like I said before, people need to be more educated about Moose behavior.


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## 90redryder

Just because you are in a tree doesn't mean the moose will leave, especially a wintering moose. Those brutes will stand there right under you all day. Then you are either to a spend the night I the tree or try to get down and you are right back to where everything started.


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## Nambaster

If that was self-defense a lot of people could skip the whole draw system and self-defend a moose every single year! Then we wouldn't have to worry about all the rabid moose on snowmobile paths in the future. 

What occurred to this moose is very similar to entrapment. The animal was provoked and induced to react to the initiated actions of the snowmobiler. The conduct of the moose does not deviate from the defensive behavior in which a typical moose would react to being engaged by a predator. 

I agree that the use of deadly force relieved him of taking a few more kicks from the moose, but to say that this man’s life was jeopardized by the moose would be invalid on all accounts in all totality without exceptions. This man is guilty of endangering himself and he takes ownership of his own actions. He ensured his own safety and physical wellbeing by utilizing his weapon (selectively not using firearm as a descriptor because he is the aggressor in this case) on this moose. Without quantitatively measuring a value for the moose's life and his life as a human being there still needs to be repercussions for his actions. 
Just as Elkoholic mentioned: 
Wildlife crimes he could be charged with

- wildlife harassment 
- taking a bull moose out of season
- taking protected wildlife without a license 
- wanton destruction and waste of wildlife
Was alcohol involved? 

These are the consequences that this man should face even if shooting the moose was in "self-defense". This moose was not acting territorial it was approached, aggravated, engaged, and re-engaged which sets it apart from the experience of many of our forum members. If charges are not filed in this case I would point my finger at an incompetent prosecution. What is to keep others from self-defending themselves from bears treed by dogs if this man escapes penalties? Throw a rock at a Beehive and you might get stung, film yourself throwing a rock at a beehive and post it on the world wide web and the bee keeper is going to find out who is effecting his honey production. 

I want to be compensated for the honey that is not being produced


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## Bax*

Does anyone have any idea what happened to the guy?


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## Dukes_Daddy

Charge him with harassing wildlife and poaching! Idiot deserved to get hurt and how convenient his Go Pro was running. Who really records their entire snowmobile ride?


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## Vanilla

I'm not even sure this is in Utah. It has been making the rounds around social media.


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## Chaser

While the guy made the idiotic mistake of putting this video on the net, I'm glad he did. It brings to light the importance of giving wildlife space. Winter time is hard on those animals, even though they are adapted to survive in very rough conditions. They experience a lot of stress, which makes it no surprise to me that the bull was so quick to go on the offensive. It doesn't take much to provoke a bull moose. Even less a cow moose with a calf. People need to keep their distance, and give them time. If you do those two things, there are almost always multiple ways to get out of trouble, the last option being the one this guy used. This idiot's mistake can be a lesson for everyone who sees it.


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## wyogoob

Bax* said:


> Does anyone have any idea what happened to the guy?


The Wyoming Game and Fish Department is looking for the guy. So far the Boone & Crockett Club has offered their help.

I will do whatever I can to make sure justice is served.

.


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## Bo0YaA

Sorry guys we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not quite sure how you can say his life wasn't being jeopardized without exception?? The thing was attacking him...Seriously, what justifies defending yourself if that doesn't. Should he have waited to see what happened when he took one of those hooves to the face, temple, forehead... come on man his life was most certainly in jeopardy. I mean its not like he was being attacked by a 1lb squirrel he was being attacked by a 900-1400lb bull moose for hells sake..

In my mind justice was served and the coyotes ate well that night.

The guy was justified in defending himself without exception.


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## Mr Muleskinner

*jus·tice*

[juhs-tis] Show IPA 
noun 1. the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.

2. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.

3. the moral principle determining just conduct.

4. conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.

5. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

*I am curious how some here define it.*


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## Elkaholic2

You guys make me laugh! This is an awesome thread! :mrgreen:


His life wasn't endangered until he pulled within charging distance. A zone that the moose felt threatened by his presence. 

The bigger picture here isn't the fact that he had to use deadly force here. I believe he had to at the point that he did! But it didn't need to come to that. Anyone that goes into the woods should be educated on what dangers are there and how to avoid them. Obviously the sled rider is not educated about moose. He probably thought it was a grizzly!!!. I have watched it enough times that even my wife said " why didn't he just go around him when he had the chance on the other track". As far as being ready for the outdoors I'd ask this guy if he had a beacon? Shovel? Rope? An extra belt for the engine? Tools? An extra coat and food and water just in case he had to spend the night if he got in trouble? 

What would you guys do to get ready for an elk hunt in grizzly country? I'm sure bear spray and a 44 mag would hit the list. Then you'd probably buy a book about grizzly behavior so you would know what your dealing with. But nobody plans for that. I see guys dragging a half an elk down a trail. When I stop to chat with them and I find out where they actually killed it. I laugh my butt off. What I'm getting at is that he was unprepared to deal with a moose. But this guy would probably leave his cooler out all night at the campground as well.

I think back to that story about the father and son elk hunting up by the park when the grizzly stalked in behind them and charged! The father put an arrow into the bear and killed it. That's justified. The animal was in the act when the people became aware of the danger! This guy was plenty aware of the situation and the. Provoke it!

You guys realize that hunters and firearms owners will get the brunt of this blame. We as sportsmen to realize what it is that we are doing out there. And that more than hunters and fisherman are watching our actions. This guys actions will not hurt him as bad as us! He will end up in court with civil trials from the pro wildlife groups if he doesn't get criminal charges first! The overall public looks at that guy as a gun owner and a hunter! He did not make anyone look good! And he probably doesn't hunt or fish! But you all know who will get the blame! Us as sportsmen. 

So it's more than him just defending himself. A lot more. This as hit a lot of major news channels already and it won't be good overall. I feel sorry for that guy in a way. But in an other. I don't! 

I hope everyone here learns from his actions and take time to educate yourself before you go! In anything that you do... Pepper spray would've probably worked! If it didn't then use deadly force! It's like people going to strawberry and keeping slot cutts. Then telling the C.O." Oh I didn't know that it was a cutthroat"! Take the time to learn about what your environment and surroundings are! What the sain? " know before you go"! 

I find myself learning all the time. I would say I'm not the best or smartest at anything. But I try keep myself open to new information. And learning From others as well as myself. I don't know about you guys. But I have learned from this guy and from what a lot of you have said in the posts. I feel that there is a lot of great information here. I wonder how many years of experience is here talking everyday? 

Simply put. This is an unfortunate event for both the moose and the snowmobiler. It could have been prevented......


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## Mr Muleskinner

I have yet to read anything from anybody that says that it could not have been prevented. An overwhelming majority of things in life can be prevented. Including the birth of idiots.


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## hoghunter011583

If that moose was a man with a knife on that same trail and the man with the knife was an obvious threat and the guy on the snowmobile made the same actions. To approach the guy with the knife telling him to get out of the way. The guy on the snowmobile would be in jail right now! Ask any cop!! If you don't try to avoid the situation and nobody else is in immediate danger, you can't shoot!!

You can't create a no choice situation. I'm really disappointed at a lot of guys on here! You are focusing on what the man did when he had no choice but to shoot, I think anyone would have shot once he was being charged, I know I would.
If you see a grizzly bear with a cub and you just walk up and make it get out of your way and it won't so you shoot it, you are totally in the wrong!!

It was his choice to approach the moose in the first place which was wrong, not the fact that he shot once he was being charged. 
You guys that are defending this bone head need to learn a little about Moose behavior!


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## Mr Muleskinner

If the moose was a cop and the guy on the snowmobile were a monkey with a donut and all of the trees were pedestrians that were needing to cross the street. The monkey wouldn't give up the donut. Point being...... The moose was a freaking moose. Ask any cop he'll tell you you.


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## Nambaster

Bo0YaA said:


> Sorry guys we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not quite sure how you can say his life wasn't being jeopardized without exception??My comment was that the moose was not the one who jeopardized this mans life. He is the one who takes ownership of the risk because of his actions. The moose holds no responsibility to his actions as they are natural reactions brought out in self-defense. The thing was attacking him...Seriously, what justifies defending yourself if that doesn't. Should he have waited to see what happened when he took one of those hooves to the face, temple, forehead... come on man his life was most certainly in jeopardy. I mean its not like he was being attacked by a 1lb squirrel he was being attacked by a 900-1400lb bull moose for hells sake..
> 
> In my mind justice was served and the coyotes ate well that night.
> 
> I forwarded this to a prosecutor and I was really looking forward to hearing the prosecutor tell me how he would get the judge to throw to book at this guy. Unfortunately what I was told was that it would go to court and there would be no guarantees that any charges would be filed. The video does indeed make it very difficult to pin this man for provoking the moose. In the end he said in a regular court room there would be a 50% chance that this man would not have any issues with the way that he reacted. Since it is a public video the likelihood of minimal chargers would be a lot higher in order to create public awareness and to reduce the likelihood of future occurrences.
> 
> The guy was justified in defending himself without exception.


In order to agree with you BoOYaA I will say it is ok to kill moose in self-defense, but it is not ok to do that which he did in order to provoke the moose. I would feel bad if the man paid for his actions with his life, but I must say he deserves to be sanctioned for his actions.


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## klbzdad

^^^Great posts! Some savvy in all of them including Muleskinner's about the birth of idiots!


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## CVHunter INACTIVE

I think it was totally the guys fault. The moose was going the other way and he started moving towards it again. Seems like a no brainer to me. Wow that guy should be arrested for sure. That video is hard to watch. 
I am a hunter. Once while I was bow hunting I jumped a bedded cow and calf. They ran but a little farther along they had stopped. That cow was staring me down and her calf was standing right behind her. You can bet I didnt continue moving towards her. If I had whatever happened would have been my own fault. That guy is an idiot.


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## Springville Shooter

CVHunter said:


> I think it was totally the guys fault. The moose was going the other way and he started moving towards it again. Seems like a no brainer to me. Wow that guy should be arrested for sure. That video is hard to watch.
> I am a hunter. Once while I was bow hunting I jumped a bedded cow and calf. They ran but a little farther along they had stopped. That cow was staring me down and her calf was standing right behind her. You can bet I didnt continue moving towards her. If I had whatever happened would have been my own fault. That guy is an idiot.


True....and the only way he could me more of an idiot would have been to let the moose hurt or kill him. I think that his culpability is blown out of proportion by the emotional response of some.

To the poster who said "ask a cop" I would remind you that cops have nothing to do with determining culpability. They collect facts and those with a lot more education in the law make the decision or defer to a jury. Using ONLY the facts presented in this video, let's have an honest conversation about things that matter legally. Without the parameters of the law, this is just an emotional ethics argument and a lot of useless assumptions. Please remember that we have no idea what led up to, and what transpired after the video. To me, these missing events make all the difference.

......or we can just continue the Monday AM Quarterbacking.---------SS


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## 90redryder

The ethics police LOVE this type of stuff. It's very entertaining to watch the conversation. But just to stir the pot I'm gonna throw this out there... To anyone who thinks he deserves his life to be ruined because of what happened here, that though process reminds me of something a PETA activist would say. .........................................................


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## morvlorv

.............................

but for real, Ive never come across a moose that didnt just go on his own way when id give him space.
hopefully they at least ate that moose.


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## hoghunter011583

Mr Muleskinner said:


> If the moose was a cop and the guy on the snowmobile were a monkey with a donut and all of the trees were pedestrians that were needing to cross the street. The monkey wouldn't give up the donut. Point being...... The moose was a freaking moose. Ask any cop he'll tell you you.


I guess I need to just drop it, given the level of intelligence of some,, I can see this is pointless. 
This is why I don't post to much on here anymore, seems like a lot of high octane gun totin badazzes.


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## hoghunter011583

Springville Shooter said:


> True....and the only way he could me more of an idiot would have been to let the moose hurt or kill him. I think that his culpability is blown out of proportion by the emotional response of some.
> 
> To the poster who said "ask a cop" I would remind you that cops have nothing to do with determining culpability. They collect facts and those with a lot more education in the law make the decision or defer to a jury. Using ONLY the facts presented in this video, let's have an honest conversation about things that matter legally. Without the parameters of the law, this is just an emotional ethics argument and a lot of useless assumptions. Please remember that we have no idea what led up to, and what transpired after the video. To me, these missing events make all the difference.
> 
> ......or we can just continue the Monday AM Quarterbacking.---------SS


Like I said I am not saying he is guilty, I said he needs to be CHARGED and let the jury decide. I will say that I thought the people on this forum would have much more knowledge of how to deal with the animals in the wild and therefore know the mistakes that this guy made.

To those that don't think he provoked the moose, I really hope none of you come in any contact with any moose ever!! 
Have fun guys.


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## BPturkeys

Had it been a full grown African lion standing in the trail and he made a charge at him, would have the guy continued to push the issue? I think this guy continued to push the issue cause he believed he could win the fight, and finally he got his wish...to use his **** gun! Made me sick to watch this guy shoot that critter then just drive by and go on his merry way, didn't even have time to stop and put it out of it's misery. Just left it there to die from a couple 9's to the chest. If the moose hadn't fallen to one side of the trail he probably would have just plowed right over the top of the poor beast.

I might be wrong, but that's how I see it. And Yeah, I would love to be on the jury for this one.


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## wyogoob

Bo0YaA said:


> Sorry guys we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not quite sure how you can say his life wasn't being jeopardized without exception?? The thing was attacking him...Seriously, what justifies defending yourself if that doesn't. Should he have waited to see what happened when he took one of those hooves to the face, temple, forehead... come on man his life was most certainly in jeopardy. I mean its not like he was being attacked by a 1lb squirrel he was being attacked by a 900-1400lb bull moose for hells sake..
> 
> In my mind justice was served and the coyotes ate well that night.
> 
> The guy was justified in defending himself without exception.


OK, this is a good response; a man that agrees to disagree; has a strong opinion but states his opinion without any name-calling.

A lot of us, including myself, can learn something from the way you have expressed your opinion here. It doesn't matter whether or not we, or I, agree with your opinion. It's not the argument really, it's the way you argue.

Hat's off to you sir, good post.

.


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## Mr Muleskinner

hoghunter011583 said:


> I will say that I thought the people on this forum would have much more knowledge of how to deal with the animals in the wild and therefore know the mistakes that this guy made.


Once again........I have yet to read an opinion that has not stated that the guy did not make mistakes. I think you are either reading a different thread or just retaining the parts that support continuing an argument.

The fact that you would love to be on a jury bears witness that you would be a crappy jury member.


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## Rspeters

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I have yet to read an opinion that has not stated that the guy did not make mistakes.


That is one hard sentence to follow.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I have yet to read an opinion, that has not stated, that the guy did not make mistakes.

Does that help?


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## Vanilla

Technically speaking, adding a couple "," does not fix the double negative. 

But we all knew what you meant.


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## Mr Muleskinner

I have yet to read an opinion, that has not stated, that the made mistakes.

Ethics police and armchair wildlife experts do not have a thing on grammar cops. 

Wrong word added one spot or misspelt shall bringeth hellfire and damnation to guilty won.


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## delement87

props to him for having a gun. if he didnt we would be reading man killed by moose....just sayin


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## Elkaholic2

Here we go again! 

Let me get my popcorn and coke!!!,


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## Springville Shooter

My work here is finished. Gentlemen...adieu.--------SS


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## CVHunter INACTIVE

Aside from the moose being killed for doing what moose are known to do. The worst thing about this is that all hunters and sportsmen look bad because of this video. Why dont we go ahead and give the antis a little ammo to use against us.


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## CVHunter INACTIVE

Also add gun owners to the list of people who look bad because of this.


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## Duckholla

I'd say 9 times out of ten, the way he approached with his sled would have run off any wild animal. It's weird to me that this moose would front him like it did at all, and then return a second, and third time!! I think there is more to this story than what we can see. Maybe it was sick, or wounded. I don't think I would have done anything differently other than had my gun out once it started coming towards me on the first charge, and certainly would not have crept forward after the first bluff charge....however I'd have smoked this moose if it charged me like it did him. His first shot was probably out of anger, the rest probably saved his life!


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## Huge29

Interestingly enough, on Wild WEst Guns the other night they showed a guy needing work on his 44. They mentioned how they oftentimes have to shoot moose that wont yield the trail and attack their dogs in the Iditarod.


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## klbzdad

I thought I heard something to that effect. I wasn't paying close enough attention.


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## Nambaster

delement87 said:


> props to him for having a gun. if he didnt we would be reading man killed by moose....just sayin


Or how about the headline "snowmobiler evades moose with SNOWMOBILE"


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## Springville Shooter

Nambaster said:


> Or how about the headline "snowmobiler evades moose with SNOWMOBILE"


How about: Man saved from attacking moose by magical pixie dust?

Great headline for tofu fairy land, but sometimes in real life, things don't go like you want. Sometimes you make mistakes and get in a bad spot. I maintain that the worst decision this guy made was to post the video for all the armchair fairly-landers to critique. Even if he gets a fine, he's alive and un-injured. How stupid is that?--------SS


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## Huge29

Here is the latest moose attack handled a little differently


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## RandomElk16

"The couple wasn't chasing the animal" just riding behind it at a speed that forced the moose to run.

I must applaud them for staying controlled. The moose was hostile. I just am not sure that it needed to make it to that point. Thanks for the post!


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## Vanilla

"We'll definitely be keeping more of a distance."

Well that's a novel idea!


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## ridgetop

Huge29 said:


> Here is the latest moose attack handled a little differently


I think it was handled differently only because the lady admitted that her 380 was too small to bring down a moose. Now if they would have been packing a 45 or 357, there probably would have been another dead moose.


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