# Speed vs. Pattern Density



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I'll take pattern density over speed anytime.
https://deltawaterfowl.org/pattern-density-vs-high-velocity/


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## sketch21 (Jul 11, 2013)

Fowlmouth said:


> I'll take pattern density over speed anytime.
> https://deltawaterfowl.org/pattern-density-vs-high-velocity/


Fowl - agreed!

I thought the author was fair. Considering some of the other bs authors we read about simply looking to sell us on whatever the latest and greatest gimmick load the big ammo companies roll out.

I shot 2/34" #4's (think around 1400 fps) all year and have never been happier. I will continue to shoot this load from now on for all my decoying birds. Even scratched out a few honkers with the load, they were close range and died without issue.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

2 3/4" waterfowl shells are so underrated IMO. One of my favorites is the Remington Sportsman load in #2 or #4 shot @ 1375 fps. If I had a choice between only shooting 3.5" or 2 3/4" I would take the 2 3/4" all day long.


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## sketch21 (Jul 11, 2013)

Fowlmouth said:


> 2 3/4" waterfowl shells are so underrated IMO. One of my favorites is the Remington Sportsman load in #2 or #4 shot @ 1375 fps. If I had a choice between only shooting 3.5" or 2 3/4" I would take the 2 3/4" all day long.


A dream to shoot and they don't rattle the teeth:mrgreen:


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## wagdog (Jan 6, 2009)

Good article. I have the hardest time leading ducks. I don't know what my problem is. I think it may have something to do with hunting an upland bird where you don't have to lead much at all and then going duck hunting where you may need to point that barrel 4 feet in front of that sucker to hit it. Mostly I just suck


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

I used to shoot a lot of the 1700fps+ steel reloads from RSI. In fact, that is all I shot for 5 or 6 years. The extra speed does allow you step down a shot size and increase pellet count a little. I also think that it did a better job killing ducks, but keeping a consistent pattern with those fast steel loads was tough and required lots of patterning and trying different choke tubes.

I always struggled to switch between my waterfowl loads and upland lead loads and finally realized that my lead changes quite a bit between 1200 and 1750 fps. I finally just started reloading a little heavier payload with a little bigger shot size with speeds that was much closer to my upland loads. It has helped me be more consistent, I do still get into shooting funks occasionally. Now I pretty much shoot tungsten mixed with steel or straight tungsten loaded to about 1300 fps in the 28ga and 20ga. Can't imagine going back to those 12ga 3" 1 1/16oz 1750 fps steel loads again.

Speed is good, but I would agree that pellet distribution is generally better with slower shot that fast, especially with factory chokes.


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## Steve G (Nov 29, 2016)

I find that my ability to shoot on any given day has a far greater impact on my ability to kill ducks such that any trade off between density vs. speed is immaterial.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

sketch21 said:


> Fowl - agreed!
> 
> I thought the author was fair. Considering some of the other bs authors we read about simply looking to sell us on whatever the latest and greatest gimmick load the big ammo companies roll out.


I like to try the different shells for myself. I don't let the marketing industry influence what I shoot either.

Another load that is underrated IMO is the 2 3/4" #6 shot. If you are shooting decoying ducks at 20 yards, this load with the right choke is deadly. I'm talking over 300 bb's in the air that pattern well. How much speed do you need when you are shooting 20 yards or less? I'll shoot #7's as well, but I get a lot of crap from people when I tell them that. The 7's are deadly, and over 400 bb count in one shell. If you are shooting decoying ducks this load will stone them. I can't see spending $12-$25 on a box of shells when a $6 box of #6 or #7's work.


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## wagdog (Jan 6, 2009)

The first limit of ducks my son killed were taken using #6 shot from an old Mossberg 500 20 gauge pump. It was over a decoy spread and the ducks cooperated. I was surprised because for me I usually use #3 or #4 from a 12 gauge.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

wagdog said:


> The first limit of ducks my son killed were taken using #6 shot from an old Mossberg 500 20 gauge pump. It was over a decoy spread and the ducks cooperated. I was surprised because for me I usually use #3 or #4 from a 12 gauge.


I've seen the #6's take down more than one goose too. My daughter started out with a Mossberg Bantam 500 and shot a lot of ducks/geese using 2 3/4" 6's. Pattern density kills!


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## sketch21 (Jul 11, 2013)

Fowlmouth said:


> I like to try the different shells for myself. I don't let the marketing industry influence what I shoot either.
> 
> Another load that is underrated IMO is the 2 3/4" #6 shot. If you are shooting decoying ducks at 20 yards, this load with the right choke is deadly. I'm talking over 300 bb's in the air that pattern well. How much speed do you need when you are shooting 20 yards or less? I'll shoot #7's as well, but I get a lot of crap from people when I tell them that. The 7's are deadly, and over 400 bb count in one shell. If you are shooting decoying ducks this load will stone them. I can't see spending $12-$25 on a box of shells when a $6 box of #6 or #7's work.


Admittedly, I'm a sucker for new ammo offerings and have a boneyard of various almost full boxes that I'll never shoot again. My boy will be hunting with me in a few years and I suppose he can run through it.

My first goose was with #6's. I love picking up on ammo deals in the off season. I found good deals on 2 3/4' steel the last few years and hope to get more this year. After rebate, they run about $6-$7 a box.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

On January 14, 2013, I killed three geese and a GWT with WW Xpert 6's in 20 gauge, with a Beretta BL-4, circa 1968, including a double on the geese. 2 3/4" shells are all I shoot. I took advantage of Remington's sale on 3" shells but haven't used them yet. I prefer the 2 3/4", but if the 3" are cheaper, what the hell? I'll take pattern density over speed any day.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

+1 on Pattern density! I shoot #2's in my 12ga and #4's in my 20ga. and im starting to gear more towards #4's out of the 12 also..

No matter what, I pattern every shotgun I buy, I match the shot to the choke tube I shoot then I stick with that combo. PERIOD. I take all the variables out of the equation so if there are ever problems killing birds, I can say with all confidence that it is me

BTW 3.5" shells are a wast of time, money and brain cells!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

paddler said:


> On January 14, 2013, I killed three geese and a GWT with WW Xpert 6's in 20 gauge, with a Beretta BL-4, circa 1968, including a double on the geese. 2 3/4" shells are all I shoot. I took advantage of Remington's sale on 3" shells but haven't used them yet. I prefer the 2 3/4", but if the 3" are cheaper, what the hell? I'll take pattern density over speed any day.
> View attachment 128513


Heck yeah! I think I shot these ducks around the same time frame with my O/U using Expert 2 3/4" #6's... They plain work!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> I like to try the different shells for myself. I don't let the marketing industry influence what I shoot either.
> 
> Another load that is underrated IMO is the 2 3/4" #6 shot. If you are shooting decoying ducks at 20 yards, this load with the right choke is deadly. I'm talking over 300 bb's in the air that pattern well. How much speed do you need when you are shooting 20 yards or less? I'll shoot #7's as well, but I get a lot of crap from people when I tell them that. The 7's are deadly, and over 400 bb count in one shell. If you are shooting decoying ducks this load will stone them. I can't see spending $12-$25 on a box of shells when a $6 box of #6 or #7's work.


i seen those number 6s kill a duck 80 yards up in the air stone killed him. i was in shock.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Do they sell #6 shot in a 3.5" shell?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

JerryH said:


> Do they sell #6 shot in a 3.5" shell?


There are several offerings in lead shot, but for waterfowl it is limited.
Hevi-Shot makes a load.
https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/he...06-gauge-1500-fps-hevi-shot-rdbx-p-89291.html


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Fowlmouth said:


> There are several offerings in lead shot, but for waterfowl it is limited.
> Hevi-Shot makes a load.
> https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/he...06-gauge-1500-fps-hevi-shot-rdbx-p-89291.html


Wow, those shells have about 430 pellets inside each one - talk about a dense pattern!

A couple years ago I patterned my shotgun and noticed that the faster loads didn't pattern as well as the slower, more dense loads. I made the switch to slower, more dense loads and have not looked back.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Fowlmouth said:


> There are several offerings in lead shot, but for waterfowl it is limited.
> Hevi-Shot makes a load.
> https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/he...06-gauge-1500-fps-hevi-shot-rdbx-p-89291.html


I was joking.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

JerryH said:


> I was joking.


You don't want to shoot a 3.5" 1 1/2oz load of #6s? With 470 pellets in the pattern, how can you miss?


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