# Who's Responsible?



## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Long story short my Moms neighbors spruce tree took out a section of her fence. He rents out the house and claims he's not responsible because it was the winds fault. I have lost a spruce tree years ago do to wind. Insurance claims it was an act of God. But they paid for a fence repair. This landlord is an insurance agent and knows the game. I simply asked i he had plan on what he was going to do about it. He got a little defensive & I told him to settle down and I was just asking if he had a plan. He said he would look into it?? So I asked whats the ethical thing to do?

I'm pretty sure I'll be the one fixing the fence.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'd say that if was a healthy tree and no concerns about it has come up then it's a act of God. 

Now the ethical thing to do would be to at least offer to pay for at least half of the fence repair since it does define the property line.

In reality I don't believe that there is any real clear responsibility. 

But then I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night either 

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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Ethical thing...if "act of god" at a minimum I'd split the costs as described if it was my tree and it wasn't in an obvious state of danger. If the tree was clearly in bad shape than I'd probably pay for the whole thing.

Know clue on legal responsibility.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Your mom could file an insurance claim and her insurance would pay and then go after the neighbor's insurance co to be reimbursed. The insurance co may pay for the removal of the tree (or partial payment). 

His ins would be the best to go thru, if the tree was on his property- which then his ins would pay for the fence, tree removal and pay a certain amount to replace a tree. 

A couple problems may occur. The ins co may depreciate the fence up to or more than 50% of the cost to replace (depending on the age of the fence). The deductible may be too high to warrant a claim. 

A decent fellow would file the claim on his own if the tree grew on his property. And a lot of this depends on the insurance they both have.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Packout said:


> Your mom could file an insurance claim and her insurance would pay and then go after the neighbor's insurance co to be reimbursed. The insurance co may pay for the removal of the tree (or partial payment).
> 
> His ins would be the best to go thru, if the tree was on his property- which then his ins would pay for the fence, tree removal and pay a certain amount to replace a tree.
> 
> ...


I like the decent fellow would file a claim on his own comment. This guy has several properties in town & im sure there is damage on all of them. Being an agent I'm sure he doesn't want to fila a claim because he knows the stats on how his rates will go up. He was cutting up the tree when I had a chat with him. He's a cheap slumlord trying to save a buck.

Mom is 92 and I'd rather not have her have to deal with it although she could lol. I'll be fixing the fence myself I'm sure.

I was just hoping an Ins agent would post up what the proper way to deal with this. Thanks


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Just FYI on the claims side. Having lived in an area where claims are made regularly due to weather, rates and number of claims have nothing to do with each other- except for excessive claims within the same year. 

I live in hail country, and so my insurance rates are very high due to the risk. Your home insurance rates won't go up because you have a claim. If you have multiple claims you may not be able to switch agencies very easily- as was my case several years ago. I had an insurance company with very competitive rates and the area got hailed out twice in one summer and some people had to have two new roofs in the same summer. Got hailed on right after the new roof installed. That company lost a boatload of money and pulled out, dropping the whole area. I had a flood and roof claim in the same month, and State Farm wouldn't write a policy on my house because of the number of claims.

Home insurance is more of a risk pool. I would anticipate that all homeowners insurance rates will go up next year to compensate for the earthquake and wind events this year. The guy simply doesn't want to make a claim for claim history. But as a landlord, they have insurance and it wouldn't cost him hardly anything. Most contractors will take the deductible off and charge only what insurance pays. I've had to put 2 roofs on and re-side my house 3 times in 13 years due to wind/hail.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Your mothers insurance would be the first step. They will fight it out with the neighbor.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

middlefork said:


> Your mothers insurance would be the first step. They will fight it out with the neighbor.


agreed. in utah they typically consider the portion of the neighbors tree overhanging your property line to be your responsibility. if you chose to you can cut your neighbors tree straight up the property line before it falls. not really a nice thing to do but legal none the less. not sure what happens when it unbalances the lean/weight and it falls on his house in the next wind event.

let mom's insurance figure it out for you.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Read this: https://www.georgejohnsonins.com/news/38/Who+is+Liable+When+a+Tree+Falls+on+a+Neighbor's+Property

The tree belongs to the neighbor, IE it's his personal property. When property is damaged by another person's property, they are responsible. Period.

Is it a property tort? Might be a waste of your time due to nominal return but since the guy doesn't actually live next door and only rents it out, it's not like you'll have bad blood to worry about every day.

Bottom line, he is responsible


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Jerry,
I believe BAX is 100% correct and it were me I would go back and talk to the neighbor again truly believing what BAX said.
A tree causing damage and the owner of the tree being responsible is not unlike a boat owner being responsible for any wake damage from said boat.
I think you will see the slumlord pony up for the repair once he knows his bluff is called.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

This is something I’m going thru also kind of except I am the neighbor and no damage has been done yet. I’m worried about a tree leaning and if more high winds come I’m worried about it falling on neighbors vehicles. I rent so it’s not MY responsibility but the rental companies. I’m only responsible for trimming limbs up to 5ft high. The rental company or the owner is responsible. Not the renter. 


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You are responsible for your trees on your property. Their homeowners insurance should cover the costs to repair the fence. 

Whatever happened to the day when we just took responsibility for our responsibilities? If I had a tree that fell and damaged a neighbor’s property I would be the proactive one to go make sure they were made whole. They wouldn’t need to come ask me.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Now days everyone is trying to get out of everything, it has been that way for years, ever since someone said that what happens is a act of God to keep from paying. I believe that it was a insurance company that came up with the phrase because of fires, earth quakes, hurricanes, and everything else that no one can really control. 

I wouldn't be surprised that law schools actually had a class in "Acts of God"


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

shaner said:


> Jerry,
> I believe BAX is 100% correct and it were me I would go back and talk to the neighbor again truly believing what BAX said.
> A tree causing damage and the owner of the tree being responsible is not unlike a boat owner being responsible for any wake damage from said boat.
> I think you will see the slumlord pony up for the repair once he knows his bluff is called.


To be fair, I think the source he linked provides the opposite claim, ie the OP is the "neighbor" in this case. The link talks about lack of liability by the tree owner in wind storm related cases. If involving insurance it sounds like the homeowner affected, ie the OPs mother, would have to make a claim for her damaged property.



> When a tree falls over onto a neighbor's property, that neighbor should submit a claim to his or her insurance company immediately. The insurance company is usually responsible for taking care of the damages. This is true if the tree fell over due to an act of nature. For example, a healthy tree that falls over during a tornado, hurricane, wind storm or winter storm would not be the responsibility of the homeowner. Since the homeowner living on the property where the fallen tree was rooted did not intentionally push the tree over, nature is responsible. This means that the neighbor's insurance policy should cover it under perils.


Hence the ethics vs legal question. I think the tree owner would step in and offer 50% minimum. We don't know how much fence was affected but I'd actually probably talk to the OP's mother and just fix the fence myself if I was the tree owner and it was 1-3 panels.

Even if I was OP I'd ultimately just fix it myself if tree owner didn't step up to help in some fashion. But my deductible is $1k so going through insurance isn't viable for minor damage.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that any insurance claim will ask the question of: was the tree maintained by the property owner?

If the tree was maintained, then insurance may accept the claim and cover damages. If the tree was not maintained, then the insurance may reject due to negligence on the property owner.


when I speak of being maintained, I mean that a professional tree care person, or arborist, has looked at the tree, possibly trimmed some branches, or given a recommendation to having the tree removed due to potential of blowing over in a wind storm....


So, a very important question for Jerry to consider is: was the tree showing any potential signs that it might be blown over in a wind strom?
Was the tree previously leaning towards your property?
Were there any dead branches?
Any other signs that the tree was possible in a state of decay?


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

In my experience, this is going to turn out the opposite of what BAX and most people expect. The home owner (not the tree owner) is going to be responsible for whatever falls in his yard, regardless of where the tree came from.

(Don't be mad at me... I'm just the messenger.) 

The good news is that tree fall damage is pretty much always covered by the home owner's insurance of wherever the tree landed. So the ethical thing to do might be to split the deductible.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

All very good points. The tree was a very healthy spruce. Spruce trees in southern Davis County are very susceptible to blow over with the east winds we get. Its not if but when they will blow over. All in all my mom is happy its not rubbing on her garage anymore. 

I just find it funny how some people dodge responsibility. My mom first asked him about the situation and he started his chainsaw and ignored her so he didn't have to deal with her. Total lack of respect. 

I was raised different. I would of had a conversation with my neighbor and said let me get the tree cleaned up and see what I need to do from there.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

If people took responsibility for their actions we wouldn't need lawyers and courts.

Your mom should file a claim and once the adjuster comes out to assess the damage she can decide if she wants to go thru with the claim or not- such as if the damage is enough to cover the expenses. A catastrophe such as the wind storm will not impact her rates individually.

The depreciation might negate any benefit from the ins co.

In the end- this link might be of value to the conversation. If he uses the fence, he must pay something.
https://www.outbackfencing.com/who-...already paid for,the cost of its construction.

..


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

JerryH said:


> The tree was a very healthy spruce. _Spruce trees in southern Davis County are very susceptible to blow over with the east winds we get._ Its not if but when they will blow over.


Knowing this, would it not be "neglect" to allow your spruce tree to grow large enough to do damage to your neighbors property *when* it blows over?

(I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about. I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. I'm just playing devil's advocate...)


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I am currently building a new home with a number of very large cottonwoods lining my property boundary. We have had many of those trees trimmed/removed from that boundary in fear that the wind could blow them over causing damage to the new building. However, the owner of the property adjacent to us has told us he doesn't want us doing any more cutting despite the fact that several of the trees are potential hazards. If one does blow over or fall and does cause damage, who would be liable? Every tree left starts across our boundary, but the branches certainly cross that boundary to our side.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Can't speak to liability with any confidence but cottonwoods are such a conundrum. Amazing summer shade and beautiful fall colors but so dangerously weak and unpredictable as they get bigger.

I will say with confidence that wear clothes you don't care about when you cut it fully down. They will literally gush water like a hose at you. It's nasty stuff. The one we cut continued to spray gallons water for 1-2 hours.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't believe that you need to really worry about a live cottonwood blowing over. However they do get to a point where they will start to rot in any limb junction. 

I had one on my property and a large wind came up and half of it split off of the main tree. When I looked at the wood where it had split you could see where water had gotten into a crotch and then rotted the rest of it away.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Hey Jerry,
I think that slumlord needs a couple spoonies left under his car seats!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Critter said:


> Now days everyone is trying to get out of everything, it has been that way for years, ever since someone said that what happens is a act of God to keep from paying. I believe that it was a insurance company that came up with the phrase because of fires, earth quakes, hurricanes, and everything else that no one can really control.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised that law schools actually had a class in "Acts of God"


"Force majeure" is the legal term.

I negotiate legal contracts for a living and this is a very important concept when it comes to an act of God causing revenue loss.

True story, one Southerner client of mine refused to call it an act of God and asked to change it to "acts of the devil".


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## alaska (Mar 22, 2020)

For me he is responsible, if he is a good neighbor he would pay for the damages.


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## Animediniol (Sep 26, 2017)

alaska said:


> For me he is responsible, if he is a good neighbor he would pay for the damages.


I agree with this, I want him to pay the damages.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

So what was the resolution?


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I never contacted him again & I fixed it.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks for being a good person.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

caddis8 said:


> Thanks for being a good person.


I'm work in progress. Its baby steps lol


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