# Is it hunting or shooting?



## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

I am sure i will catch a lot of crap for this post. I was browsing my Facebook this morning and saw a lot of posts from numerous people about how they killed their spike elk form 1407 yards and someone else killed a cow at 1620. There were probably 8-10 posts like this and none of them were under 1k yard shots. To me that seems more like shooting than hunting but I get it to each there own. I prefer to use a bow because it feels more like hunting. In my personal opinion if you can't get closer than 500 yards to an animal maybe you should practice stalking as well. It takes skill to hit something that far no doubt but isn't there a much bigger chance of you just wounding an animal at those ranges? Anyways I am not impressed with their kills and a few were some bigger 6 point bulls. I would have been more impressed if they actually put in the work to get in closer but thats just me. Rant over.


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## mjensen1313 (Jul 29, 2015)

bass2muskie said:


> I am sure i will catch a lot of crap for this post. I was browsing my Facebook this morning and saw a lot of posts from numerous people about how they killed their spike elk form 1407 yards and someone else killed a cow at 1620. There were probably 8-10 posts like this and none of them were under 1k yard shots. To me that seems more like shooting than hunting but I get it to each there own. I prefer to use a bow because it feels more like hunting. In my personal opinion if you can't get closer than 500 yards to an animal maybe you should practice stalking as well. It takes skill to hit something that far no doubt but isn't there a much bigger chance of you just wounding an animal at those ranges? Anyways I am not impressed with their kills and a few were some bigger 6 point bulls. I would have been more impressed if they actually put in the work to get in closer but thats just me. Rant over.


While I am very confident I can shoot an elk or mule deer out to 500 yards, I will always close the distance if possible. Last year I got mine at only 20 yards.

I am more willing to bet they could be measuring by feet NOT yards!


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

mjensen1313 said:


> While I am very confident I can shoot an elk or mule deer out to 500 yards, I will always close the distance if possible. Last year I got mine at only 20 yards.
> 
> I am more willing to bet they could be measuring by feet NOT yards!


Unless they are just saying they shot that far. But everyone of them says yards and are bragging it up.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

If you are holding a gun, its all shooting... from 10 to +1000 yards. Hunting is finding / locating the critter in the first place. Better hunters can get closer. If you can only get within 1400 yards of a elk, you suck as a hunter.


-DallanC


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## Mr.CheddarNut (Jan 16, 2013)

This topic has come up many times and is a current controversy between sportsman. They even have a "sub sport" for it now called Long Range Hunting. I believe it to be a fad or fashion type of thing just like the "tactical" movement or "Zombie Apocalypse" or self/home defense etc. There is no reason that a person with even the modest skills in pursuing game shouldn't be able to get with in 500 yards of game. It is actually not so easy to spot them up at 1000 yards plus anyway. However that being said I believe and ethical shot is the one you know you can make regardless of distance. So you can you will on both ends.

Cheddar


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

Farthest I've ever shot an animal ever is 150yds so I don't claim to be a long range hunter whatsoever. But downing these peoples hunting skills is a little much. These guys probably do spend as much time in the woods as they do shooting. And let's face it, hikers get writhing 100 yds of animals. If these guys wanted to close the gap they could. It's not about their "hunting" ability. They put a lot of time and money and effort into refining their shooing skills. "Shooting" is what they enjoy and that's a big pet of gunning. I wish that I had time and money enough to get confident enough in my abilities to make a clean kill at 1400 yds. I think that's awesome. 

My issue with this style of hunting is WHEN you miss or wound (not if but when). Let's all be honest, we've shot animals at 100 yds and gotten so excited that we forget exactly where we shot it and have a hard time finding a blood trail. Now multiply that chance for mistake by 14. Across a draw, a creek, or in a wrong thicket and all of the sudden you have no idea where that animal went. There are probably a lot of wounded animals that get assumed as complete misses because they can't find blood. That's just unfortunate


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Well said jm. If anyone backs up to increase the shot distance at game they should be beat with the butt of their gun. 
As long as they follow up shots instead of assuming a miss. 
It certainly could open up opportunities for mobility limited hunters though.


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## bass2muskie (Nov 5, 2013)

Jmgardner said:


> Farthest I've ever shot an animal ever is 150yds so I don't claim to be a long range hunter whatsoever. But downing these peoples hunting skills is a little much. These guys probably do spend as much time in the woods as they do shooting. And let's face it, hikers get writhing 100 yds of animals. If these guys wanted to close the gap they could. It's not about their "hunting" ability. They put a lot of time and money and effort into refining their shooing skills. "Shooting" is what they enjoy and that's a big pet of gunning. I wish that I had time and money enough to get confident enough in my abilities to make a clean kill at 1400 yds. I think that's awesome.
> 
> My issue with this style of hunting is WHEN you miss or wound (not if but when). Let's all be honest, we've shot animals at 100 yds and gotten so excited that we forget exactly where we shot it and have a hard time finding a blood trail. Now multiply that chance for mistake by 14. Across a draw, a creek, or in a wrong thicket and all of the sudden you have no idea where that animal went. There are probably a lot of wounded animals that get assumed as complete misses because they can't find blood. That's just unfortunate


I am in no way bagging on their shooting skills. No doubt they are great shots to be able to connect that far. But that being said there is a huge difference between shooting 1500 yards at a steel plate and an animal.


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

I completely agree with that


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

if you see the reactions on these long range shooting shows, guys are laughing in amazement because they are surprised they actually hit the thing at that distance. You don't ever really see that "adrenaline" excitement reaction like you do on normal close shots.


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

Also to give maybe a little out of the box comparison, a lot of guys here are archers, including myself. Bass, you killed your deer at 94 yds this year. I've seen several elk pics taken over 80 yds. A typical practice shot here is 50 to 60 yds and anything under 40 is almost viewed as a gimme. Why are we willing to take these shots? Because we practice a lot, we put money in our bows, and we know our capabilities. However back home (Alabama) any shot over 40-50 yds is viewed as almost unethical by a lot of hunters. It's Almost mindboggling that anyone would even attempt it. Now do I think a 1400 yd shot is necessary? Not in the slightest. But those guys know
Their capabilities and limits, much the same that we know our bows. Some idiot with an off the shelf ruger American 243 shooting core Lokts with a BSA 3x9 scope will undoubtedly sling lead at 1000 yds and make long range shooters look bad. But I have to believe that the majority of people that attempt these shots do so because they are justifiably confident in their abilities regardless of the necessity to shoot that distance.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I seriously judge the accuracy of the reports of those distances. And short of a 50 bmg, I seriously question that even the best tuned and specialized rifle in the 30-35 caliber range can either make those shots, make them predictably, or have enough energy to kill an elk. Just. No.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Apparently its getting so easy even kids can do it






-DallanC


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Isn't it the hunter's responsibility to do whatever possible to increase odds in making sure your shot...whether bow, rifle, muzzleloader....results in a clean kill? Any time you increase the distance, you increase chances of something going astray.

While I can be the best rifleman on the planet, I certainly cannot control outside influences that can and will change the outcome. Is it not my obligation to close the distance to lessen the chance of something going wrong regardless on how many milk jugs I've shot from 1,000 yards?

o-||


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

gdog said:


> While I can be the best rifleman on the planet, I certainly cannot control outside influences that can and will change the outcome. Is it not my obligation to close the distance to lessen the chance of something going wrong regardless on how many milk jugs I've shot from 1,000 yards?


That's called Sportsmanship... something that doesn't seem to be taught anymore in today's immediate gratification, narcissistic society.

-DallanC


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

The point I think he is trying to make, and I agree, is that these long range shooters are just that...shooters. Furthermore, although they are great shots and obviously put a lot of time, effort, money into their weapon of choice the same accomplishment can be had on non living targets! Taking such shots on live animals is irresponsible and cruel. I agree that the closer you can get, with any weapon, the better and higher chances of success when a shot presents itself.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Not to just tick everyone on this discussion off here, but......
Hunting IS cruel. Hunters deliberatly kill animals for a hobby. Archery hunters almost NEVER have instant kills, instead they mortally wound an animal that will wander around until it bleeds to death. Rifle and muzzy hunters are not different. Sure, we hope for a one-shot kills, so they'll "drop in their tracks" but instant kills are not what happens much of the time. And even if they did, we still hunt animals down and kill them for the sheer pleasure of it. And yes, the outing, the stalk, the scouting, the family time, the memories made - all are part of it. But make no mistake - hunting - AND fishing are cruel endeavors. I don't care if you are 10 yards, or 1,500 yards away. Hunting IS cruel.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

DallanC said:


> Apparently its getting so easy even kids can do it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was totally justified, couldn't you tell that there was absolutely no way of getting closer?  I Think Steven Rinella put it the best way that I have heard. He said if you have the slightest doubt that you will not be able to put the bullet exactly where you want it you should not take the shot.


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

I'm with GaryFish -- don't believe have the stories. Past 1000yds, wind and even the movement of the earth become crucial. For every kill at that distance, a vast number of shots at that distance land nowhere, or wound a likely unretrievable animal. 

DallanC, that video is from the Gunwerks guys themselves ... they have their own range, shoot every day, lots of data, experience, bla bla ... 

All that said, I don't mind long range hunting. I do find it an interesting challenge, but am not ready -- equipment or experience-wise. 

Last Saturday, btw, some $%@#$%^% shot past me and my buddy at a group of elk that we were eyeing as well. Three shots whizzing past our heads, at maybe 150yds south of us. Later confronted them; they said it wasn't them, even though one said "yeah I got that 1000yd gun ready to go." 

We were rather speechless, and the sound of those bullets was discomforting. So, at whatever range you shoot, don't #$%^#$%^ shoot over people heads!!!!!


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## SLCHunter (Dec 19, 2013)

SLCHunter said:


> Last Saturday, btw, some $%@#$%^% shot past me and my buddy at a group of elk that we were eyeing as well. Three shots whizzing past our heads, at maybe 150yds south of us. Later confronted them; they said it wasn't them, even though one said "yeah I got that 1000yd gun ready to go."


And he missed all three shots. Just to add that as well. At 750 yards. Later he seemed to have gone down, and done target practice in camp, as we heard shots from the same location in regular intervals. Unbelievable.


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## Vern21 (Jul 8, 2010)

This is the problem with people if its not your way its the wrong way. I don't take shots that far because I don't have the equipment. I've seen guys shoot animals at 1000 yards and they died in their tracks, I've also seen guys at 300 yards wound an animal and never retrieve it or try to get closer only to spook the animal and still shoot at it and possibly wound it. Lets just leave it at this no matter what way you choose to hunt be proficient with your weapon know your limits and make smart shots.


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## Jmgardner (Sep 17, 2014)

GaryFish said:


> Not to just tick everyone on this discussion off here, but......
> Hunting IS cruel. Hunters deliberatly kill animals for a hobby. Archery hunters almost NEVER have instant kills, instead they mortally wound an animal that will wander around until it bleeds to death. Rifle and muzzy hunters are not different. Sure, we hope for a one-shot kills, so they'll "drop in their tracks" but instant kills are not what happens much of the time. And even if they did, we still hunt animals down and kill them for the sheer pleasure of it. And yes, the outing, the stalk, the scouting, the family time, the memories made - all are part of it. But make no mistake - hunting - AND fishing are cruel endeavors. I don't care if you are 10 yards, or 1,500 yards away. Hunting IS cruel.


This is genius. I completely agree with that. And while o do agree that 1400 is a bit much, for everyone saying "you can get closer and its your responsibility to." Where do you draw the line? What's the magic number? Is 500 yds more ethical? Sure it is but at 500 yds you can prolly dance and twirl and talk without whispering, which means you can get closer so is that ethical? Or if you're at 200 yds and the animals head is down, you can OBVIOUSLY get closer, and it's your responsibility as a sportsman. All of this is exaggerated, and I'll say again I've never shot anything past 150 yds. But these guys catch more flack then they deserve


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Hmm hunting is cruel. So are car accidents, abortion, ripping vegetables and fruits from their plant or tree, swatting mosquitoes and about anything else that involves living and dying...so what's your point?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The ethics of it all are different for every person. Speaking only for me, anything over 300 yards is not ethical. I don't do it. I have not tuned my rifle, nor do I practice enough, nor do I practice at distances more than 300 yards, nor is my eyesight good enough, or my scope powerful enough, for me to confidently shoot over 300 yards with my rifle. So I don't do it. For me to take shots over 300 yards would be unethical. That is MY line for ME.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Hmm hunting is cruel. So are car accidents, abortion, ripping vegetables and fruits from their plant or tree, swatting mosquitoes and about anything else that involves living and dying...so what's your point?


The point was that all hunting is cruel. Be it short range, long range, rifle, archery, whatever. So for one hunter to play the cruel card to dismiss the way another hunter chooses to pursue game (within the law of course) seems a bit contradictory to me.

In relation to your other list - car accidents are not intentional, nor are they the hobby. Abortion is cruel. Harvesting fruits/veggies/flowers even - if you believe plants have feelings, then sure, cruel. Swatting skeeters? Not cruel. Bugs don't count. ;-) Heck, I barely count fish.  Because if I overthought the cruelty of catching and releasing fish for nothing but the heck of it, I'd probably think about feeling bad about the cruelty of it. But if they don't want to be caught, then don't take the fly.  Of course, with that reasoning, if deer and elk don't want to be shot, then they have no business standing in front of my rifle/bow/atl'atl.8)


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I echo the sentiment that if you are seeing that many claims at those distances that some of your Facebook friends may be embellishing they their yardages. There just aren't that many people out there with the skill and equipment to kill animals at 1400 yards.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I personally know of two who have the skill and equipment to consistantly hit what they aim for at 1200+ yards and can be said to shoot more accurately at that yardage than I can at 60 yards with a bow. I can appreciate the skills involved for both.
I think there is plenty of room in this boat called hunting for many different people to enjoy it the way they want as long as it is legal to do so.

If you want to set limits on yourself , great I respect that. But I'm not sure of anyone's qualification to be setting them for others.


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## Mr.CheddarNut (Jan 16, 2013)

GaryFish said:


> Not to just tick everyone on this discussion off here, but......
> Hunting IS cruel. Hunters deliberatly kill animals for a hobby. Archery hunters almost NEVER have instant kills, instead they mortally wound an animal that will wander around until it bleeds to death. Rifle and muzzy hunters are not different. Sure, we hope for a one-shot kills, so they'll "drop in their tracks" but instant kills are not what happens much of the time. And even if they did, we still hunt animals down and kill them for the sheer pleasure of it. And yes, the outing, the stalk, the scouting, the family time, the memories made - all are part of it. But make no mistake - hunting - AND fishing are cruel endeavors. I don't care if you are 10 yards, or 1,500 yards away. Hunting IS cruel.


 I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one GaryFish Surely a matter of perspective but I don't see hunting to be cruel at all. Quite the opposite really. I participate in a wildlife management plan. From where I sit the plan is in place to ensure the survival of all species of wildlife, and that the surviving individuals of any given species have the most purposeful and quality life possible. By buying tags and hunting we all contribute to that plan and wildlife quality of life if you will. I see the point you are trying to make. I just object to the statement of cruelty.

Cheddar


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I wonder if the deer I'm hoping to put 150 grains of copper in next weekend would view it as cruel?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Blah, blah, blah, blahgity, blah, blah.-O\\__--O\\__--O\\__--O\\__--------SS


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I would say the guy that kills a buck/bull at 1,000 yards and puts meat in the freezer is a better hunter than the guy that can't make the shot or tries to get within 100 yards but blows the buck/bull out of the country without taking a shot.

Now I do agree for every 100 yards in distance, the chances of wounding an animal goes up. 
And I also respect a hunter more when killing an animal, it was done with less advantages but in the end, it's hunting all the same.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm sure that the same thing was said when hunters went from open sights to fixed power scopes and then when they went to variable power scopes. Also when they went from single shot black powder firearms to smokless factory loaded brass cartridges


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> Blah, blah, blah, blahgity, blah, blah.-O\\__--O\\__--O\\__--O\\__--------SS


I'm thinkin' bullet placement is important. :mrgreen:

.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

All I know is it really sucks to hike and work into 300 yards on a mature buck only to have a dude with a 50 cal shoot at it from 1,600+ yards. Steel tables and dead rests wound them too....

One day people will realize that kill at all costs includes the price tag of reduced permits to hunt.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

As many here know, I'm an avid long range shooter and have killed an occasional animal clear the h3ll out there. I have to say this though, this whole longrange hunting craze is really pissing me off. The TV shows make it look like anybody who has one of their guns can instantly start killing animals at 1000 yards. So now every dork that has a gun capable of such shots goes out and starts blazing away like they have the skill to do so. Are they wounding animals? Probably, I don't know. But the one common thing I hear when some of these longrangers kill something is some kind of surprise statement about how they can't believe they hit it. Really? They were surprised? You shouldn't be surprised if you hit it, you should be absolutely shocked if you don't hit it or you shouldn't be shooting that far. I've been in this long range game for many, many years and before the big longrange hype hit the internet, the only guys I knew that took long shots were very well practiced and took precise, calculated shots. Or they didn't shoot.
I have a range with 10 steal targets set up from 200 to 1228 yards and since it's completion, I've gone up about three times a week and taken one shot at each target. Sometimes the wind is so screwed up that I might only hit 3/4ths of them. The wind and how much more you need to practice doping the wind than shooting technique is one thing that I don't hear about much on these shows. I hate to turn on my own kind but the best advice I can give 75% of the longrange shooters is...don't.


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## fastcamo (Aug 27, 2012)

The thing that bothers me most about it, not all animals drop in the tracks, and I'm also very sure the guy that shot 1000+ is not going to go make sure he missed, every long range hunter believes they can do it, yet at the shooting matches, there are very few that can hit 1000 with the first shot. I don't care either way, close or far, but if your gonna pull the trigger at long range, you better have the balls to go make sure you missed.

The elk hunt a week ago, I had my 6.5 along, and went to a secluded mountain top, not to hunt elk but shoot, I most certainly could have just sat there and waited to see an elk, but I just pinged off shots and grass patches in the desert below, from 800 to 1590- but to me it didn't feel like hunting, the heart pump going through the trees, and seeking on a herd and being able to take one at 150 was nice, plus if I missed checking where I shot at would have been a simple walk.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

fastcamo said:


> The thing that bothers me most about it, not all animals drop in the tracks, and I'm also very sure the guy that shot 1000+ is not going to go make sure he missed, every long range hunter believes they can do it, yet at the shooting matches, there are very few that can hit 1000 with the first shot. I don't care either way, close or far, but if your gonna pull the trigger at long range, you better have the balls to go make sure you missed.
> 
> The elk hunt a week ago, I had my 6.5 along, and went to a secluded mountain top, not to hunt elk but shoot, I most certainly could have just sat there and waited to see an elk, but I just pinged off shots and grass patches in the desert below, from 800 to 1590- but to me it didn't feel like hunting, the heart pump going through the trees, and seeking on a herd and being able to take one at 150 was nice, plus if I missed checking where I shot at would have been a simple walk.


Cool

6.5 what?

.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

You know. A 6.5. It's like a 7. Only .5 less.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I think if I totaled up the distance of every shot I've taken in the past 10 years, it wouldn't add up to 1400 yards. 


-DallanC


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

My farthest recorded kill on a hunt is 512 yards. Antelope in Wyoming. 

The most boring, unfulfilling and empty feeling hunt I've ever been on was an antelope hunt in Wyoming. 512 yards. 

The most memorable, buck fever, adrenaline filled hunt I've ever had was probably my first deer with archery equipment. A little two point. I've shot a lot bigger deer since then, but none of them at 4 feet standing broadside. 

I guess it's whatever you're into, but for me personally, at ridiculously long ranges, there isn't much emotional difference to me between a hunt and making a great shot on a steel target. The target doesn't know you're aiming at it either.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

This is exactly why I am now hunting with a single-shot rifle that has a low power scope on it. I feel that this makes the hunt more sporting and less like a deer sniper.

Besides, how cool is it when you get close enough to hear a buck snort!?

My ears aren't good enough to hear that from 1600 yards.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

How do you even check for blood at those ranges? I shot my cow this weekend @330 yards and had a hard time finding where she had dropped in her tracks. If I was just checking blood it would have been nearly impossible.


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## riptheirlips (Jun 30, 2008)

Hell if I shot a deer, elk at 1200 yards in this weather it would be spoiled by the time I hiked over to it and found it. Sure takes the fun out of actually hunting.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

brendo said:


> How do you even check for blood at those ranges? I shot my cow this weekend @330 yards and had a hard time finding where she had dropped in her tracks. If I was just checking blood it would have been nearly impossible.


 You just flip on your infrared goggles and use a drone to do all of your work. Then all you need to do is sit back and let technology do all of your work and eliminate any need for skill.

Silly Brendo :mrgreen:


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> You know. A 6.5. It's like a 7. Only .5 less.


That makes sense.

Is a 7mm-.5 like a 7mm-08 only 07.5 smaller?

Hey, I have a .265 Newton that is a 6.5.

trump

.


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## riptheirlips (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't think my lever action Winchester Model
55, 32 WS would make a 1200 yd shot.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

WasatchOutdoors said:


> I guess it's whatever you're into, but for me personally, at ridiculously long ranges, there isn't much emotional difference to me between a hunt and making a great shot on a steel target. The target doesn't know you're aiming at it either.


My guess is the deer standing broadside at 4 yards didn't either, otherwise it wouldn't have been standing broadside at 4 yards. My closest kill ever (about 15 yards) is also my most unfulfilling kill I've ever had.

I'm not a long range hunter or shooter. I don't think I would be comfortable taking a shot much beyond 300 yards because I don't practice enough to feel confident in shots outside that range. But I won't tell others that are better marksmen than me that they shouldn't.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

riptheirlips said:


> Hell if I shot a deer, elk at 1200 yards in this weather it would be spoiled by the time I hiked over to it and found it. Sure takes the fun out of actually hunting.


That's just hilarious, thanks.

.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

longbow said:


> But the one common thing I hear when some of these longrangers kill something is some kind of surprise statement about how they can't believe they hit it. Really? They were surprised? You shouldn't be surprised if you hit it, you should be absolutely shocked if you don't hit it or you shouldn't be shooting that far.


I completely agree. John Burns stated this exact view in the first "Beyond Belief" DVD that was produced by The Best of the West. It seems that over time, this view has been lost for marketing/advertising purposes by the entire hunting industry.

I've had long range rifle setups in the past, but now it is fun for me to see how close I can get. To each their own!


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## Berretta40 (Aug 24, 2013)

bass2muskie said:


> I am in no way bagging on their shooting skills. No doubt they are great shots to be able to connect that far. But that being said there is a huge difference between shooting 1500 yards at a steel plate and an animal.


IMHO, it should be considered 'shooting', not hunting.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Berretta40 said:


> IMHO, it should be considered 'shooting', not hunting.


I agree to a point. It's just like hunting a waterhole from a treestand, (both of which I enjoy.) You're not really hunting. You just sit there and when an animal comes in for a drink you shoot it.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

longbow said:


> I agree to a point. It's just like hunting a waterhole from a treestand, (both of which I enjoy.) You're not really hunting. You just sit there and when an animal comes in for a drink you shoot it.


And road hunting should be considered just shooting from the road, not hunting either. 
A person needs to hike at least a mile away from their vehicle to be considered a real hunter.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

longbow said:


> I agree to a point. It's just like hunting a waterhole from a treestand, (both of which I enjoy.) You're not really hunting. You just sit there and when an animal comes in for a drink you shoot it.


 So, if you use your brain to get close to an animal instead of your legs, it's no longer hunting?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Ummmmm,
Hunting and shooting go hand in hand!

Not one OR the other,
If your hunting, and harvesting game, YOUR SHOOTING SOME kinda weapon!


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

When guys make long yardage claims to me I like to find out what caliber there shooting then ask what the hold over was for a shot like that. Any good long range shooter will tell you in a blink of the eye what there hold over or drop is for there rifle. If they can't say or claim some made up distance you can figure they shot the game animal at less then 300 yards.

I once had a guy claim a 300 yard muzzy shot on a deer, when I asked him his hold over he said he held right on, when asked how far his rifle was sighted in for he claimed 100 yards. Well me knowing a little about muzzys knew that with my hard charging rifle has 43 inches of drop at 300 yards and this guy shooting Pyrodex and a conical would be closer to 60 inches. All I said was ya right nice shot.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I laid in bed last night and thought about getting up and deleting my last post. The last thing I want to do is turn on my own kind...treestand hunters, or any other kind of ethical hunting. But, I didn't wake up in time to beat the internet.


elkfromabove said:


> So, if you use your brain to get close to an animal instead of your legs, it's no longer hunting?


No, actually I still consider it hunting. Especially from a treestand. If you do both right, you've already put in your scouting, done your legwork, erected your stand and now it's time to leisurely sit with a book and wait to see if all your hard work has payed off. I admit that treestand hunting is a method to get a close, high percentage shot at an animal on his own turf. I like treestand hunting. However, when done properly, setting up a successful longrange shot over a basin you've already scouted, marked all the yardages on your range card, patterned the animals and put in the many hours it takes to dope unknown wind currents takes a lot of work. That was my point. He!!, I even like to roadhunt sometimes! I don't expect much but it's nice to get outside and enjoy the outdoors.
I'll say this again, most longrange hunters piss me off worse than the longrange haters.
Sorry to all if I ruffled any feathers. I try to respect anyone's method of ethical and legal hunting.


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