# Utes are for real!



## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

Great Game! Utah is big and strong on both lines, 2 fast go to receivers, 2 backs that could play for anyone, linebackers played great, the secondary needs some work, but came thru in OT, and last but not least the coach is stud! 
I think I am starting to become more and more of a Utah fan


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Great game! 405 yds vs 266 yds, those TO's were very damaging, it did not seem that close and Utes will clean up the TO's and the penalties; looking good!


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Realistically the Utes should have one by at least 14 pts. Lots of mistakes, they were lucky to win at all. Hopefully they clean it up. I predict they will end up in the top 20 by next week.


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## holman927 (Sep 28, 2007)

I got to admit it was a good game. The Utes are pretty amazing at finding ways to squeeke out the win. I thought it was pure comedy how Whittingham was iceing the kicker at the end.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

OK. Here is my take on the game.
-Utah has a GREAT running game with Asiata and Wide. They are both the real deal, and with that, it relieves a ton of pressure off of Wynn. 
-Wynn is a decent QB, but not great. But with the two RBs he has to hand to/take pressure, he will be very good. 
-Front 7/8 for Utes on defense won the game for them last night. Shutting down Pitt's running game was excellent. They won't face that good of a running back all year. Very solid run defense as we've all come to expect from Whitt.
-Mistakes Mistakes Mistakes. Botched kicks. 3 illegal substitutions? Opening game gitters or lack or organization or something. I can't imagine Whitt is all too pleased about players not knowing where they are suppossed to be. It is the first game, but some of those mistakes shouldn't be made by D-1 players, even in the opener. Very sloppy.
-Utah got a major gift from the zebras in the 4th quarter with the PI call on 3rd and 23. Pitt had all the momentum in the comeback, and had Utah pinned deep. The phantom PI call was a bad call. The DB was engaged with the WR, but the ball was thrown 10 yards out of bounds. I know the PI rule is different in college than in the NFL, but doesn't the ball have to be remotely catchable? Anyway, the automatic 1st down and 15 yards allowed the utes to chew up 2 more minutes of clock which proved to be a big deal. That call TOTALLY changed the momentum of the game. And I hate when the zebras do that.
-One weakness in Utah that got exposed in a HUGE way is the mismatch in size of their DBs and the big WRs of Pitt. (Sadly, its the same thing my Cougars have). If Pitt had even a half decent QB, Utah would have been toast. Luckily for Utah, Pitt's QB sucked. But TCU's Curley will kill those DBs- especially in single coverage. The man-press coverage Utah plays does well on the smaller/slower WRs of the MWC - but bigger receivers catching balls from decent QBs are going to eat that up. 
-Overall thoughts - utahute's biggest strengths are the front 7/8 on defense, and the two headed running back combo. Those alone will propel them to most wins. Whitt will take care of the sloppy mistakes. I'd be surprised to see any of those again. It was a good win, but not surprising, and not an upset to me. utahutes have proven over the past 5 years that they 1) win home games and 2) that they SHOULD beat any team from the Big East. The top of the MWC is, and has been better than the Big East and ACC. Nice but expected win for the utes.
-Last shot - I hate the time-outs on the kicker. Its just chicken-crap football. If you're better, then play football straight up. Don't use bush-league trickery like that to win. Just play the dang game. That goes for both teams doing it. I've never liked that crap, and never will. 


Now, if my Cougars can only show up and get a few good bounces against YouDub. I'm not too sure about that game.


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

I would have to dissagree with you on the CB lack of size, they played very well last night, minus two melt downs, but how many times did he try to force a jump ball and Utahs DB's timed it well and broke up the play. I thought that Utahs entire defense played very well, really answered the questions about them losing all of there starters. I thought minus the penalties Utahs offense could had been pretty good. I think Wynn is better than ok, I think he will be a good QB do you forget he has only played half a season of college ball?.....


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

I wondered about that PI also until I saw the replay. The ref could of called holding, hands to the face and PI, it was not a great pass but certainly not "10yds out of bounds"
Isnt Kerley from TCU just a little guy? 5'9 or 5'10"?


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> OK. Here is my take on the game.
> -Utah has a GREAT running game with Asiata and Wide. They are both the real deal, and with that, it relieves a ton of pressure off of Wynn.
> -Wynn is a decent QB, but not great. But with the two RBs he has to hand to/take pressure, he will be very good.
> -Front 7/8 for Utes on defense won the game for them last night. Shutting down Pitt's running game was excellent. They won't face that good of a running back all year. Very solid run defense as we've all come to expect from Whitt.
> ...


Good post, I agree with you about the timeouts to throw off the kickers, I don't like it.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Gary yeah... that PI was pretty bad. Even if the Pitt guys had been hands off, that throw was terrible anyway. Yeah it was in the area, but was it catchable... I don't think so. I'm surprised that Pitt didn't utilize that huge studdog receiver they've got more often. He was making big gains for them there at the end of the game when they finally used him and the big tight end Shanihan on about four successive plays. 
I'm not real crazy about Utah's Wide though.... he dances too much it seems. It was nice to see them just run Asiata so much because that guy just puts his head down, hits the holes and carries people with him. Just run downhill... best way to get yards. 
Wynn... make reads quicker.... he had open mid range corner routes several times during the game but instead opted to go with a checkdown to a back or tight end coming off the line. Shovel passes... it worked once... but its not the go to play. I thought somebody brought back Ludwig when they did it late in the game. C'mon... use your weapons. A deep ball is not the only throw to get yourself out of trouble... and if you don't get it deep enough, interceptions happen with that kind of a jump ball. He's shown flashes of good things... but he's got to get more consistent. That goes for their whole offense... Asiata was about the only constantly good thing they had going on O last night.
Their D was great to watch... really seemed to rise to the occasion with only a few stumbles. I agree that their D is a little small on the corners and safeties, but I liked the battle between big number 82 for Pitt and 27 for the Utes. That was fun to watch and for being smaller than Pitt's receivers, Utah's DB's did a fine job for the most part.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

hockey said:


> I wondered about that PI also until I saw the replay. The ref could of called holding, hands to the face and PI, it was not a great pass but certainly not "10yds out of bounds"


+1
It looked like defensive holding or a facemask to me. It didn't matter if the ball was too high, defensive holding could still be flagged even if the ball was sent into the stands.



GaryFish said:


> -One weakness in Utah that got exposed in a HUGE way is the mismatch in size of their DBs and the big WRs of Pitt. (Sadly, its the same thing my Cougars have). If Pitt had even a half decent QB, Utah would have been toast.


True, but the U probably won't be playing too many teams with NBA sized wideouts again this year. That Baldwin guy is apparently projected to be a first or second round pick by ESPN's Mel Kiper. I thought, technique wise, the secondary was solid, except for the busted play for the long TD pass.

Solid win for the U to beat a good football team, even with losing the turnover battle and making as many mistakes as they did. There is certainly room for improvement too. I think if Pitt can get more solid QB play, they will be heard from nationally as well. (which would help the U and the other MWC contenders down the road.)

Hopefully, TCU and the cougs will follow suit this weekend against tough competition.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> hockey wrote:
> I wondered about that PI also until I saw the replay. The ref could of called holding, hands to the face and PI, it was not a great pass but certainly not "10yds out of bounds"
> 
> +1
> It looked like defensive holding or a facemask to me. It didn't matter if the ball was too high, defensive holding could still be flagged even if the ball was sent into the stands.


I think you are right on the defensive hold and/or facemask. PI was the wrong call. But there was a penalty to be called.

The question I'll ask because I really don't know. In the NFL, the ball has to be catchable in order for PI to be called. So by NFL standards, PI was the wrong call. Is it the same in college? I know PI rules vary greatly at high school/NCAA/NFL levels. Does the ball have to be catchable in college, to get the PI call?


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> That goes for their whole offense... Asiata was about the only constantly good thing they had going on O last night.


Were we watching the same game???
Christopher had something like 180 yds recieving and Brooks was over 100 also with 2 touchdowns
At some point you have to give the teams from the state of Utah some love


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

GaryFish said:


> The question I'll ask because I really don't know. In the NFL, the ball has to be catchable in order for PI to be called. So by NFL standards, PI was the wrong call. Is it the same in college? I know PI rules vary greatly at high school/NCAA/NFL levels. Does the ball have to be catchable in college, to get the PI call?


Yes, it is the same. That was why some coaches on the Pitt sidelines were signalling uncatchable when the flag was thrown. I do know college also has defensive holding and obviously facemasking, but I don't know offhand how the d-holding penalty is assessed, except it is an automatic first down. (In the NFL, it is a 5 yd penalty and an automatic first down)



hockey said:


> Riverrat77 said:
> 
> 
> > That goes for their whole offense... Asiata was about the only constantly good thing they had going on O last night.
> ...


Good grief, I didn't see this quote earlier. No kidding about giving the U some love. Utah's total offense was 405 yds, which is pretty good in almost any game and they weren't exactly playing against a bunch of chumps in Pitt. (Pitt gained only 266)


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> -Last shot - I hate the time-outs on the kicker. Its just chicken-crap football. If you're better, then play football straight up. Don't use bush-league trickery like that to win. Just play the dang game. That goes for both teams doing it. I've never liked that crap, and never will.
> I have to disagree. Icing a kicker, or foul shooter, by using a strategic time out is an important part of the game. It is the one major problem I have with Sloan..... he doesn't know how touse his time-outs, it drives me crazy. Properly using time-outs is the mark of a great coaching staff. It probably doesn't work as much as coaches would like, but it works just enough to keep trying. It almost worked last night, and even on the third try Pitt's kicker barely cleared the uprights.
> 
> Now, if my Cougars can only show up and get a few good bounces against YouDub. I'm not too sure about that game.


I hope they can do it, I think they have a good shot.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Catherder said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > The question I'll ask because I really don't know. In the NFL, the ball has to be catchable in order for PI to be called. So by NFL standards, PI was the wrong call. Is it the same in college? I know PI rules vary greatly at high school/NCAA/NFL levels. Does the ball have to be catchable in college, to get the PI call?
> ...


How did I miss this play you guys speak of? Was this the one on the east (far side from the camera's view) sideline offense going to the south end zone where the linesmen signaled dead ball TWICE as the receiver complained to him finally threw the flag?? As a former official, I can tell you that is a huge NO NO! To speak with other officials and throw one late is discouraged and extremely rare, but I have not ever seen anything like that one. 
In general, holding is pretty rarely called, but is essentially any attempt to slow down the receiver once the receiver has clearly made a move to get past the DB once he is clearly not a blocker, but a receiver. PI being the exact same act, but while the ball is in the air, so you can have D holding on a play where the QB keeps the ball...There is no 5-yard rule in high school and I thought college was the same?? 
Uncatchable is a tough decision, sometimes it was very catchable until the receiver was interfered with to slow him down, but clearly out of bounds in the easy call that way.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Huge, I'm pretty sure that was the play. It was 3rd and 23 for utah, and they were on about their own 13 or so, going left to right on TV. It was around the 7 or 8 minute mark in the 4th quarter. Wynn dropped back but receivers were covered so he rolled to his left. As Pitt came in pursuit, he threw it out of bounds, over the head of his receiver that was then running an out, towards the sidelines. The flag came after the play was blown dead, about two seconds after the ball fell incomplete, and the ute receiver was pleading his case to the line judge. VS replayed it twice, and we replayed it 4-5 more times on the DVR, trying to find the PI. Like you said, at best it was a defensive hold by Pitt's DB. In my opinion, he had released the "block/hold" by the time Wynn let the ball fly. 

To me, the reason the flag was so important didn't have anything to do with the foul. But Pitt had pinned the utes deep, pushed them further on the first two downs, and the incomplete pass would have left the utes punting from their own goal line on a 4th and 23, with Pitt having 7 minutes left and half a field to go. Pitt had all the momentum at that point. The penalty call clearly changed the momentum. Where Pitt figured they had held the utes deep, instead utah got a whole new set of downs and was no longer pinned so deep. Eventually Pitt forced utah to punt, but two minutes had ticked off the clock. 

I don't know if the call changed the outcome of the game. Clearly, utah had done much to shut down Pitt after the first quarter. utah earned a win. Especially with the pic in OT. But a late flag on a questionable play like that really changed the flow/momentum of the game. But its like the Superbowl with the Steelers and Seahawks a few years ago. The refs took the game away from the teams. And that sucks.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I thought that is the one you meant....I think a no call was in line personally and so did the official until he was talked into it. I will guess that that guy may not have a game to officiate next week; I have not ever seen that happen. Pretty poor.

I watch very little NFL, in fact one game/year to be exact and that Steelers/Seahawks still rolls around in my head. The single worst call I may have ever seen-Hasselbeck called for a cut block as he tried to tackle the guy around the knees and inadvertently hits a guy blocking for the guy who just got the pick around the knees in the process. One other that sticks out the Y/U game in Provo where CB drops the opening pass play that would have been an 80 yd TD--'07?-called an OPI against Allen, wow that one was bad; I swear the official forgot who was on O...ok I feel better.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I can see it now....If BYU loses today then they will be saying the only reason the Utes won is because of a bad call. I have seen a lot of bad calls made that has favored BYU.

Washington wants revenge because of the bad call where Jake was celebrating in the endzone which backed then up and BYU blocked the kick.

Washington went 0-12 that year when BYU had all their superstars and it was still a close game.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

In true CS fashion, he forgot the 9 compliments and only heard one thing."Bad call"?? Throwing the ball 10' up in the air in celebration will be called 100% of the time, what happened on that PI call; might get called 15% of the time, but I know that logic does not play a role in your fandom.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Daniel, hahaha someone has the stir the pot with the BYU fans.

Oh hell Daniel they are just college kids. They should just let them play. Oh my gosh 10 feet is serious. :lol: :lol: I know they do it for sportsmenship, but sometimes guys get caught up in the moment. 

A lot of BYU fans cried when the ball was thrown an amazing 10 feet in the air.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

hockey said:


> Riverrat77 said:
> 
> 
> > That goes for their whole offense... Asiata was about the only constantly good thing they had going on O last night.
> ...


On how many big plays? Its going to be a long season when you have to rely on a few big plays here and there to just keep you in your games... what happens if they play a team with good pass defense? Eddie Wide is NOT going to get them a win by himself.... and little passes to the flat when you've missed the read on the guy wide open making a cut to the corner aren't always going to result in 50 yard runs. Pitt isn't that good of a team and the only time Utah could dependably move the ball down the field was when Asiata got his hands on it. Unless Wynn gets lots better quickly at making downfield reads instead of wiggin out when he gets a little pressure and choosing checkdowns over open recievers, their passing attack is questionable and is a weakness to be exploited by teams with good defense.


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

Rat, posts like your last one show your sports IQ, lets "mock" some of your comments:
You talk about big plays like it's a negative thing? Utah has a back who pounds the ball and big play receivers and a big play back, most coaches and fans would love this combo.
Pitt had no pass defense? The best pass defense is a pass rush, Pitt has (2) NFL DE's. Your comments make 0 sense
Pitt isnt that good of a team. bet they finish 10-2, in the top 20 and win the Big East. Did I mention a Heisman candidate at RB, (2) NFL DE's, NFL LB, NFL WR. Again I say what are you trying to say here???
I could go on and on but you would never understand


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

hockey said:


> Rat, posts like your last one show your sports IQ, lets "mock" some of your comments:
> You talk about big plays like it's a negative thing? Utah has a back who pounds the ball and big play receivers and a big play back, most coaches and fans would love this combo.
> Pitt had no pass defense? The best pass defense is a pass rush, Pitt has (2) NFL DE's. Your comments make 0 sense
> Pitt isnt that good of a team. bet they finish 10-2, in the top 20 and win the Big East. Did I mention a Heisman candidate at RB, (2) NFL DE's, NFL LB, NFL WR. Again I say what are you trying to say here???
> I could go on and on but you would never understand


Right, like you don't understand that Utah escaped with a win against a team that played terribly and still almost beat them. Pitt didn't utilize that "NFL wide receiver" nearly enough until the end of the game when he very well could have won the game for Pitt, except for that little penalty. :roll: They didn't have near the game from that "Heisman quality running back" that you'd expect but thats a bright spot for Utah.. their D definitely showed up. How did that big play receiver hype work out for Shaky again? Hopefully (and I don't think they will) Utah doesn't buy into any of that until they begin to show some consistency and earn that label. Brooks caught a couple longer passes but other than that, the only other big play was when Christopher busted a tackle and went for 61 and a touchdown. They didn't have any where Wynn just aired it out to a wide reciever who just worked Pitt's secondary. Even Brooks first touchdown in the first half was a mid range (19 yards) post route that split the safeties and if he didn't have hops, the pass would have split the uprights. Big play back eh.... to the tune of a whopping 47 yards. You're onto something there. 8) Sorry to have to be the Garyfish version of Ute fans but seriously.... you're giving them way too much credit early when they've got some pretty stiff competition lining up here in about a month. Here is the link for you in case parting the emotional fog of victory is keeping you from having a clear recollection... its great, gives you box score, an accurate description of the whole game and a play by play recap.  I think they'll beat UNLV, New Mexico and San Jose St before they run into a little better competition. Hopefully they can polish things up a bit by then.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302450254


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I was interested to see Pitt fall off of the rankings and the U added along with the Y on coach's poll only, but more importantly on Pitt being dropped. That Pitt played poorly is a direct result of a good opposition. I think the U and Pitt will both end up in the top 25 at the end of the year, when it is most important. It seems that the only thing we all agree on is that the U run D is very much for real. Kept Lewis to the lowest (72) of his young career and at about half of his average (150).


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