# Kochia and Russian Wildrye



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Just would like to know as much as possible about the 2 plants, good articles, things you know, just wondering how effective it is for deer and elk. But a main concern is does it effect/kill/hurt native sagebrush, according to some things I've read it help get rid of or keep cheatgrass at bay, but does it also hurt sage brush stands?


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## ACHY (Oct 18, 2007)

Here are a few articles.

Winter Preference, Nutritive Value, and Other Range Use Characteristics of _Kochia prostrata_
https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/ojs/index.php/wnan/article/viewFile/2027/2374

Forage Kochia: Friend or Foe?
http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_p021/rmrs_p021_210_215.pdf -

Range Plants of Utah: Russian Wildrye
http://extension.usu.edu/rangeplants/htm/russian-wildrye

USDA Plant Guide: Russian Wildrye
http://plants.usda.gov/plantguide/pdf/pg_psju3.pdf

Coexistence of Native and Introduced Perennial Grasses following Simultaneous Seeding
http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/97/3/990

From everything I've ever heard, as long as these beneficial non-native plants are planted in a good mix of both native and non-native grasses, forbs, and shrubs (and not just as a monoculture) they will not become weedy or invasive. They may compete to a greater or lesser degree with natives, but I don't think we have to worry about them hurting sagebrush stands. Cheatgrass, thistles, knapweeds, and other noxious weeds are what we need to be worried about.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> Cheatgrass, thistles, knapweeds, and other noxious weeds are what we need to be worried about.


That's exactly right! Without cheatgrass we'd have no chukars or sharptail grouse. Both depend on the cheatgrass for food and cover. We need to protect the cheatgrass at all costs and encourage its growth wherever and whenever we can! Seriously.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Cheat grass is not something anyone should WANT to have around, the Russian Wildrye looks like a prime replacement for cheat grass and something that might actually be able to choke it out to some extent (which is what I intended to learn when I started this post). Chukars would be beneficial with Russian Wildrye, chukars eat the seed tops of cheat grass, we'll RW have twice as big of seeds with twice the nutrients. Yes chukars thrive in cheat grass, but they could survive just fine on another plant that isn't as invasive or destructive as cheat grass to so many things.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> chukars eat the seed tops of cheat grass


I'll vouch for this. The bird I shot on saturday had a crop that was FULL of cheat grass seeds. If they didn't have cheat grass, they'd find something new. Just like grouse feed on leaves if berries aren't around, or pheasants feed on grasshoppers if there isn't enough grain to eat. The chukars are here to stay, but only as long as they have a food source. Replace the cheat grass with something else, and they'll eat it.


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Have you made any progress on this 1-I? I think I see where you are going with this and if it would work it would be great. Yae they say we need to get rid of invasive weeds but what if you cant? Maybe it would be better to find an alternative invasive weed. one that would be beneficial like the native grasses but could compete with non-natives. keep going.


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## hemionus (Aug 23, 2009)

My first question is are you talking about forage kockia or kochia scoparia (aka fireweed). huge differences in the two. kochia scoparia is a invasive annual and just go out your door and look along a road side or in an empty lot and you'll see it.

cheatgrass particularly is a very harmful plant on rangelands. first off it is competitive as hell. it is a winter annual meaning it is sprouting now, goes dormant over the winter and is the first one hogging all the nutrients come spring, VERY efficient means of gaining a competitive advantage over native vegetation. secondly it changes soil properties and alters other ecological processes to it's advantage. take natural fire regimes in sagebrush steppe ecosystems for instance. sage steppe ecosystems are adapted to fires every 25-70 years. cheatgrass alters the fire interval to 3-6 years. fire promotes cheatgrass and cheatgrass promotes fire. they feed off of one another. with fires this frequent woody plants like sagebrush are burned out. these are just a couple things in a complex story but i hope it illustrates how invasive plants can alter communities and processes. cheatgrass is BAD stuff. yea chukars use it but that is about it and no they are not dependent on it. there are millions of dollars that have been spent and are being spent on this very topic and means of control and restoration on infested areas.



> From everything I've ever heard, as long as these beneficial non-native plants are planted in a good mix of both native and non-native grasses, forbs, and shrubs (and not just as a monoculture) they will not become weedy or invasive.


if your talking about forage kochia then yes it is in seed mixes used on range rehab. Cheatgrass is never planted on purpose though.

i like your thinking, sportsman need to be concerned with such issues and be informed. i feel that one of our biggest threats to our wild lands and wild things is invasive species. heck become a weed scientist and you'd have job security unlike any other field, i almost went into this very field.

as far as the russian wildrye here is a short article for ya. http://www.animalrangeextension.montana.edu/Articles/Forage/Species/Grasses/Russianwildrye.htm. it is very different functionally than cheatgrass and wouldn't stand a chance. that **** cheatgrass is just so competitive for so many reasons (i.e... life cycle, prolific seed producer that equates to huge seed banks in soil, very long seed dormancy, ect, ect..................)

great topic


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

hemionus said:


> it is very different functionally than cheatgrass and wouldn't stand a chance. that **** cheatgrass is just so competitive for so many reasons (i.e... life cycle, prolific seed producer that equates to huge seed banks in soil, very long seed dormancy, ect, ect..................)


We'll these 2 plants are the only plants that anything says will at least somewhat compete with cheat grass, from what I've read Kochia (Postrata) can keep cheat grass out of areas and outcompete it to some extent when it isn't in an area yet. Anyone know where I can get any seed for Kochia Postrata or Russian Wildrye?


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

I know up blacksmith fork canyon there is a big problem with cheatgrass. I know its good for chukars and all, but I don't think its good for a lot of the other animals.


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## hemionus (Aug 23, 2009)

sounds like your up to a little restoration project? if you are give your county weed supervisor a call he will be more than willing to give you all the advice and info you could need.


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