# Bookcliffs -versus- Unit 21 in CO



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Not trying to be a smartazz or start an pissin match but does anyone have any info on the cause of the big difference between the overall quality of bucks from the Book Cliffs versus the quality of bucks from unit 21 in CO? The two units border each other, and the BC is roughly twice the size of 21 but by my count they issue very similar numbers of buck tags. I get approx 570 for BC (including archery, muzz and rifle) vs 560 for 21. I consistantly see 21 turning out 200" where it seems like BC produces more of a 170" buck on the top end. Is the terrain significantly different between the two units? Is access easier in BC? I am not very familiar with BC but I have spent a little time around 21 and it didn't seem like there was a shortage of roads. It is possible that my tag counts are wrong, if so let me know. Am i wrong on the size of bucks being that different? How can CO issue the same number of tags for an area half the size and produce an overall bigger buck? Just curious if anyone has insight into the difference.


I have thought of this before, but never really knew the answer. How do you guys think?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Here is a little bit if information about unit 21 in Colorado. It takes a resident 2 preference points and non-resident 5 points for the archery tag. For muzzleloader it is 4 resident points and 9 non-resident points. For the second and third rifle hunts it takes 3 resident and 8 non-residend for the second season and 10 points for residents and 16 for non-resident for the third season. The post-hunt population estimates for 2009 are 12,090 deer with a 41/100 buck to doe estimate for both units 21 and 30 which is just to the south of 21.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

I wonder how many of these deer migrate back and forth between the two? -Ov- 

I've spent some time in the books and I'm willing to bet there's some big and wise old bucks down in some of those canyons. Some have probably never seen a white man. Those Utah side bucks have plenty of country to hide in for sure. I'm not familiar with the Colorado side..


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

The point of the post is how can Colorado issue just as many tags as the Bookcliffs unit? The Unit 21 is twice as small, but they still kill bigger bucks for the most part?


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

Could be the buck/doe ratio and herd size in Colorado is larger than the BC. I spoke with 2 of my friends who rifle hunted unit 21 and unit 22. Out of the group of 10 hunters only 2 killed a buck. Several hunters that have been in this unit have mentioned that the number and quality of the deer has declined. It may have to do with the gas wells being installed and the land made unavailable to hunt any longer. I'll take the BC any time. You just need to get back away from the roads and into the back country.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The last population estimate that I have seen for unit 21 in Colorado is for 2009 and that combined 21 with 30 which is just to the south. That estimate was 12,090 deer with a 41/100 buck to do ratio. So what is the population and ratio for the Books? 
As far as hunting I had a friend from California hunt unit 22 in Colorado in 2010 and he saw more 30" bucks than he could count. Granted there was 2' of snow during his hunt and they were on the move but they were there and he took a real nice 34" 4x4.

I just looked at the Utah statistics for the Books and the 2009 population estimate was 8050 deer for the north and south sides. The buck to doe ratio was 32/100 for the north and 38/100 for the south. So both the population estimate and the buck to doe ratio is lower for the Book Cliffs than for units 21 and 30 in Colorado.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

I really believe years and years of genetics and history between the two units play a big role..........Deer In my experience do not migrate much from year to year (although throughout the year they do), This over many years has led to the offspring of bigger/better bucks in Colorado.....The bookcliffs use to see heavy pressure years ago, this I do know..........Colorado I have heard (no real experience with the past over there, just present), did not see near the pressure, years ago. Grazing IMO also plays a role between the two states/units...........

The data you guys are comparing is right now data, numbers between the two states........I really do not know tons about these units, but that is my guess..............Especially after seeing the number of three points and "inch weak" older bucks on the Books........Buck to doe ratio plays a part as well Im sure and in my experience AGE CLASS of bucks has to be looked at when comparing the two units, I believe unit 21 has a lot more mature bucks than BC- Like it or not that has to figure into the equation as well not just the strait buck-doe ratio....

Oh and just so we are clear, and there is no confusion or whining, Im not a biologist, so I know my opinion does not mean much, and it is simply an uneducated guess........ maybe one of the state biologists that frequents the forum would like to give us there reasons as to why the BC and unit 21 are not even in the same ballpark...........


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