# Possible Cuttbow



## spencerD (Jan 14, 2014)

Alright, let me first cover all my bases:

I was fishing yesterday in an area (don't wanna name where) that has populations of cutthroat, rainbow, and brook trout. The cutthroat in this region are Bonneville Cutthroat (this information came from a DWR Biologist) and are largely left to their own devices.

Rainbows are planted in many lakes for quick fishing action, and the brooks are planted to grow very large very fast. So yes, a possibility of species mingling exists.

Now, I caught this fish in a little trickle of water that drains off one of the many ponds in the mountains. The lake above it has rainbows in it for sure, and some cutt. The stream I was fishing has other streams drain into it, and I've seen cutthroat in those streams for sure.

Alright, so I covered drainage area and stocking.










pretty colorful rainbow, right? But I noticed, under its jaw, were slashes just like you'd see on a cutthroat. This picture doesn't do them justice, but the fish wouldn't hold still long enough for me to get a good picture of the slashes.










You can see the very faint slash peeking out from under this fish's jaw.

So what's the verdict? Think it's a cuttbow, or a rainbow that just happens to have the slashes of a cutt?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I can't open either picture.

.


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## spencerD (Jan 14, 2014)

Dad gummit, I think I fixed it.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

There are percentages of cut bows. So say in generation 1 you have a rainbow and cutt mix to create generation 2, which is 50/50 rainbow and cutt. Now say that fish comes back and spawns with another pure rainbow. Now you've got a 75/25 mix, rainbow to cutt. The corresponding markings and identifiers will make that fish look more like a rainbow than it's grand-fish. Obviously, you can see that with hybrid populations, you'll have a lot of markings that are genetic and some that are individual genetic expressions. Even fish in the same batch of offspring may have differences. One may have slashes while another does not. It just depends on how much of each species is in the fish and the genetic expression in the individual. 

I think you've got a cuttbow but one that only has a minimal amount of cutt genes and a lot of rainbow in it.


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## spencerD (Jan 14, 2014)

Dodger said:


> There are percentages of cut bows. So say in generation 1 you have a rainbow and cutt mix to create generation 2, which is 50/50 rainbow and cutt. Now say that fish comes back and spawns with another pure rainbow. Now you've got a 75/25 mix, rainbow to cutt. The corresponding markings and identifiers will make that fish look more like a rainbow than it's grand-fish. Obviously, you can see that with hybrid populations, you'll have a lot of markings that are genetic and some that are individual genetic expressions. Even fish in the same batch of offspring may have differences. One may have slashes while another does not. It just depends on how much of each species is in the fish and the genetic expression in the individual.
> 
> I think you've got a cuttbow but one that only has a minimal amount of cutt genes and a lot of rainbow in it.


yeah, it's amazing how wildly different fish are even among species.

Thanks for that info, that really helps a lot. I think it's a cuttbow as well. the prominent red slash down its side is very similar to the coloration, shape, and size of cutthroat caught higher up the mountain that day.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Purdy fish regardless. :O||:


I suppose the only way to know for sure is through genetic testing, but I would only say that many rainbows also have a faint throat slash as well and if that is the only basis to call it a cuttbow, it may not be accurate. 

To me, the rest of the fish looks classic rainbow and I would go with "rainbow with faint slashes".


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## HighmtnFish (Jun 3, 2010)

Yea, it looks like a native (not planted) stream rainbow to me. In my feeble experience rainbows that are born and raised in small streams like that will acquire a slash under their throat, just like a cutthroat. 
That's a pretty little rainbow you have there.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Catherder said:


> Purdy fish regardless. :O||:
> 
> I suppose the only way to know for sure is through genetic testing, but I would only say that many rainbows also have a faint throat slash as well and if that is the only basis to call it a cuttbow, it may not be accurate.
> 
> To me, the rest of the fish looks classic rainbow and I would go with "rainbow with faint slashes".


That's true but short of DNA testing, there is no way to know for sure. It also depends on what kind/strain of rainbow you are looking at but I'm not aware of pure rainbows that have a slash. It's entirely possible that the fish in question has some cutt in its pedigree. And it's entirely possible that what you think are "native" rainbows (meaning naturally spawned as no rainbow in utah is really "native" in the true sense if the word) also have some cutt DNA in them.


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## spencerD (Jan 14, 2014)

HighmtnFish said:


> Yea, it looks like a native (not planted) stream rainbow to me. In my feeble experience rainbows that are born and raised in small streams like that will acquire a slash under their throat, just like a cutthroat.
> That's a pretty little rainbow you have there.


To you and Catherder -

Could very well be a rainbow. Definitely a wild bow, born in the creek, as planter bows don't look like this.

I have a creek near home where I catch wild bows (the creek is stocked very infrequently with other rainbow trout) and they all have this same kind of coloration - lots and lots of spots, with a beautiful stripe down the side. But I've never seen one with slashes under the jaws.

Of course, that creek and the one this rainbow in question was caught on are separated by 100 miles, so there will be some variance.

It is a pretty fish, regardless. I'm inclined to agree with Dodger, though. I think it has some cutthroat in it somewhere. Or maybe I'm dead wrong, who knows.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Dodger said:


> ...but I'm not aware of pure rainbows that have a slash.


You might not be aware, but pure rainbow trout can, and often do, have throat slashes.



spencerd said:


> Could very well be a rainbow. Definitely a wild bow, born in the creek, as planter bows don't look like this.


Why not? Where a fish is born has nothing to do with what the fish looks like -- the genetic makeup is still the same. Consider cutthroat trout. Many "wild" populations of cutthroat are used to rear fish -- eggs and milt are collected from wild fish (Manning Meadow, Kolob, Dougherty, Duck Fork, etc.). The eggs and milt are eyed-up, and fry are reared in the hatchery. At this point those fry are then stocked into lakes and streams. Without fin-clips, tagging, or other markers, biologists would have NO way to identify a "wild" fish from a "stocked" fish. Visibly there is NO difference.

Rainbow trout would be the same. If the fish is hatched in a hatchery and stocked as FRY, visibly there would be NO difference between that fish and a fish hatched in the wild.

The differences only come when fish are raised to "catchable" sizes and physical scaring has occurred to the fish.

When stocked as fry, a hatchery fish would be indistinguishable from a wild fish.

In my opinion, the fish in the picture would be identified as a rainbow trout. Too many other identifying characteristics point towards rainbow and away from cutthroat. No hybrid there.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

PBH said:


> You might not be aware, but pure rainbow trout can, and often do, have throat slashes.


Which pure rainbows have slashes?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Not the ultimate source, but from wikipedia;

"These markings are responsible for the common name "cutthroat" given to the trout by outdoor writer Charles Hallock in an 1884 article in _The American Angler_.,[5] *although the red slashes are not unique to the cutthroat trout and some coastal rainbow trout and redband trout also display throat slashes."

*
Go catch 10 catchable rainbows from a recently stocked fishery. You will likely find more that a couple with some color in the throat area.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Dodger -- keep in mind that rainbows and cutthroat are VERY closely related. More so than any other trout. They share numerous common characteristics, including throat slashes.

How often do you see cutthroat _without_ throat slashes?

If you'd like a picture of a rainbow with slashes, just look at the first post in this thread. What more do you need?

OK. Here's some more:

Fresh Water Fishes of British Columbia


J.D. McPhail[/quote said:


> Typically, cutthroat trout have a distinctive red slash under each side of the lower jaw; hence, the common name -- cutthroat trout.
> ...
> Also, at the northern limits of their natural distribution, rainbow trout sometimes have orange slashes under their throats (McPhail and Lindsey 1970)


Or, should we use Behnke?
Trout and Salmon of North America


Robert Behnke said:


> In cutthroat trout, the cutthroat mark beneath the jaw is an intense color and is typically bright red, whereas in rainbow trout populations that exhibit a cutthroat mark, such as some redband trout, it is a more subdued yellow or orange.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

PBH said:


> Dodger -- keep in mind that rainbows and cutthroat are VERY closely related. More so than any other trout. They share numerous common characteristics, including throat slashes.
> 
> How often do you see cutthroat _without_ throat slashes?
> 
> ...


Or, maybe they are closely related because they are hybridized. Just saying.

The guide book says any fish with slashes is a cutthroat. Why would they say that if rainbows have slashes? But, the converse is not true, a fish without slashes may still be a cutthroat.

Also, McPhail, Lindsey, and Benhke are talking about the "extreme northern distribution," "redband rainbows," and "coastal rainbows." Those are extremely less likely here than finding a hybridized rainbow/cutt.

We _may_ have gotten some redband rainbow DNA at some point in our stocking program that has been going for over a hundred years at this point. It's possible. But it's just as possible that that fish has some cutt DNA in it as well.

And we could argue about whether or not redbands are rainbows just the same as we could argue about whether Bear Lake cutts are Bonneville cutts.

Regardless, just as I said, without DNA tests, we'll never know.

This argument could go on all day. We disagree.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

The 2014 DWR guidebook Strawberry regulations (Bold print by me).

Any trout with cutthroat characteris
-
tics (not necessarily jaw slashing) is 
considered to be a cutthroat trout. *Slash *
*marks under the jaw should not be *
*used to distinguish Bear Lake cutthroat *
*trout from rainbow trout at Strawberry. *
*Slashing is sometimes absent on Bear *
*Lake cutthroats and sometimes visible *
*on rainbows.* Better characteristics are 
deep orange pelvic and anal fins on the 
cutthroats, and white-tipped pink to 
gray-green pelvic and anal fins on the 
rainbows. Rainbows also have the pink
-
ish lateral stripe on the sides (see fish 
descriptions beginning on 
page 47
 of 
this guide for more information).


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