# Best piece for the wife?



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

The wife has always threatened that if I got her a gun she would shoot me with it, but after recently watching Captain Phillips she decided that she wants to get her CCW and a piece. 
I was thinking of the LCP, but after shooting a friends the torque was way too much for me, so I know that she wouldn't like it at all. It drives me crazy not having your pinkie on the rest. I see that some come with the extended mag, so that is a possibility. I also want it to be something specific for her, so I want to get a pink or something designed for the ladies. In doing more looking around, I came across the Lady Lilac LC9, which seems to meet the bill in all respects, but I haven't shot one. This is the one I was looking at specifically, I like the extended handle while still being the subcompact general size http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consume...ded=&youth=&Offset_rec=0&num_rec=50&item_num=
Any other models I should consider? Wouldn't the 9mm have slightly less recoil than the 380?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

LCP's arent the most comfortable gun to shoot out there, but it is the gun you always feel good slipping in a pocket no mater the time of year.

I have no trouble shooting it, my 13 year old absolutely loves to shoot it. My wife doesn't like the long trigger pull though. The LC380 will recoil alot less than the LC9, in the same sized gun. 9's are ok... had one I'm glad to have sold it. I have a XD40 Sub Compact I'm kicking around trading for a .45 of some form (xds?), my wife likes shooting the .40 more than the LCP, I think only that it fits her hand better.

Either way, I *DO* love the laser on my LCP, its fun and very accurate in all but bright light. I painted the front post on my LCP and its made a ton of difference.


-DallanC


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## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

My wife got the Hello Kitty version of the LC9 with a laser. I put a 12lb recoil spring and a lighter hammer spring in it. She shoots it very very well.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

My wife has a Glock 23 40cal. She handles it quite well. We went into Impact and they let her feel and shoot different guns. I stayed quiet and tried not to influence her decision, (which was a good idea). She surprised me by her choice. She shot a LCP 9mm but didn't like the grip or the way it recoiled. She prefers the G23 without the finger grip. Hope that helps.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Afishnado said:


> My wife got the Hello Kitty version of the LC9 with a laser. I put a 12lb recoil spring and a lighter hammer spring in it. She shoots it very very well.


Thats good to hear. I've been kicking around swapping out my LCP springs, people really recommend it.

-DallanC


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

After trying a .45, .40, 9mm, .380, .25 in various models and styles we finally found a handgun that was comfortable for her. Not just comfortable, but something she can actually operate and shoot. A short barrel Browning 1911 .22.....maybe small but she can spit 'em out quick with some decent accuracy.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

If you want to spend some bucks you could try the Sig 938, some of them come with the extended magazine that is a great feature. Or the Colt Mustang, both guns are in the 600 to 700 dollar range. 
I think DallanC is correct, I also believe the "9" has more recoil, plus it's a regular flame thrower.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Afishnado said:


> My wife got the Hello Kitty version of the LC9 with a laser. I put a 12lb recoil spring and a lighter hammer spring in it. She shoots it very very well.


I am not familiar with such modifications, but isnt the recoil the spring the one around the barrel making it really easy to change? Is that to absorb more of the recoil and the hammer spring gives it less resistance on the trigger? I noticed on the LCP that the trigger pull was crazy long.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

Well there is always the .38 Special revolver like the Ruger LCR.

But, though my experience with these and women is limited, perhaps a Glock 19 9mm or a Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact 9mm in a double stack less-than-full-size pistol.
I know one novice women who shoot the XDM much better than her (also novice) husband. She did quite well.

Or the S&W M&P Shield 9mm or Springfield XD-S 9mm in a thin single-stack subcompact. The similar-size Kahr PM9 as well. Both the M&P Shield and the XD-S have had recent trigger recall issues, with that of the XD-S being more severe, but with these sorted out things should be good.
It is possible the new Glock 42 might be one of these type.
All have a simple constant weight/pull length trigger.

The little .380s are hard to shoot and certainly lack the power of the 9mm Luger. You give up a lot for size here.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I would take her to a range and let her shoot a wide variety and make her own decision. I have the LCP380 I only carry it as a backup that goes in my pocket while on duty. I carry a Glock 19 or KelTec P11 (both 9mm) while off duty, carrying concealed. I like the LC9 and have been trying to talk my wife into letting me buy one for her. She does like to carry the KelTec or G19 when she's up in the hills horseback riding or skiing or whatever. Give her options and let her decide is the best advice I can give you. The LCP is not "fun" to shoot in my opinion.


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## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> I am not familiar with such modifications, but isnt the recoil the spring the one around the barrel making it really easy to change? Is that to absorb more of the recoil and the hammer spring gives it less resistance on the trigger? I noticed on the LCP that the trigger pull was crazy long.


The lighter recoil spring gives the gun less barrel "flip" and gets you back on target quicker. The lighter hammer spring does give less resistance, but you probably couldn't use military ammo, it has crazy hard primers. When I get some time I'm going to work on the trigger pull without compromising safety.


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## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

And sorry, the recoil spring IS the one by the barrel.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

My sister in law is barely 110 pounds soaking wet and loves her .38 revolver.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> My sister in law is barely 110 pounds soaking wet and loves her .38 revolver.


My wife has a super-light Model 327 scadium Smith & Wesson revolver. She uses it with .38 Specials instead of .357 mags. Her favorite handgun is a 1911 though, but they're just too heavy to carry.

Mrs Goob doesn't carry anymore. The thugs take a look at her and just run away.

.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I have tried to find the right gun for my wife for a long time. And I discovered that she didnt like most of the choices I made and we ended up selling every one. But once I took her along with me to pick a new gun, she got to feel the different options and decide what she liked and disliked. So the point of this rambling post is to come up with a list of firearms you would like her to consider and then let her feel them herself.

That being said, here are my suggestions for a .380:
*Ruger LCP* (I hate the trigger pull, but it is well built and pretty affordable).
*Kel-Tec P3AT* (Ruger "stole" the LCP design from this one, same crappy trigger, and a little cheaper in price).
*Sig P-238* (this is my favorite design as it is similar to a 1911 and has a much lighter trigger).
*Colt Mustang* (same as the Sig)
*Kimber* .380 (cant remember what the model is and I cant look it up at work).
*Walther PPK* (good enough for James Bond. This isnt my top pick, but they are well made).

I dont like the Bersa Thunders. I think they are over priced for what you get


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

The simpler you can make your technique, and your carry system, the more likely you are to function as you should under stress; it's that simple. So it is best to pick a pistol with a minimum of things to do before you can fire a round in self defense.

Some pistols mentioned are single-action 1911-system-based (Mustang, SIG P238/P938 etc.) While these are all good guns in the subcompact 1911 mode and would be a good shooters that work well at the range, simplicity isn't their forte.
The issue with these _as a pure self-defense CC pistol_ lies in the fact that they use a single action mode of operation. For carry this entails the same thing as a 1911 - carrying ****ed-and-locked with the necessity of remembering to swipe off the safety before you can fire it.
And remembering to do this step under extreme duress.

With others with a DA trigger, (Walther PPk, Bersa etc.) you have the issue of a long/heavy DA first trigger pull transitioning to a light/short SA pull on the second shot of the double tap. This certainly takes practice to place both shots close together on target. People tend to cheat in practice and shoot all rounds SA after they chamber the round (_which leaves the pistol ready in the SA mode_). If you don't practice the DA pull and the transition, you can have issues in control.

With both SA and DA pistols you need to remember to either put the safety back on or de**** to pistol after the shot(s) have been fired.

With a striker-fired Constant Action trigger pistol (Glock, XDM/XDS, M&P etc.) all you have to do is pull the trigger like a revolver. Far less chance for Murphy to screw things up. I wish I could say that I've never forgotten to take a SA pistol off safety before I've shot, but I have. You just need to practice constantly and hope it goes well with a SA. With the striker-fired pistol an entire critical step is removed.
And unlike the DA system every trigger pull is of the same length and manageable 5-6 lb. pull weight.
To Safe this type of trigger system you simply remove your finger from the trigger.

The DAO trigger (Kel-Tec, Ruger, Bodyguard etc.) utilizes a long and heavy trigger pull for every pull of the trigger. Some of these are gritty as well. The long/heavy/gritty DAO trigger of a S&W .380 Bodyguard I shot a while back made the gun difficult to hit with and manage, except at very close range. And especially difficult for women. Certainly if you decide on one of these types trying the trigger pull first is a smart move.

To quote from an article:"Pocket-Pistol Therapy" [American Rifleman Mar 2013]


> ...pocket pistols, whether diminutive semi-automatics or small-frame revolvers, do their part and offer a solution that is easy to carry concealed. Merely slipping one into the front pocket of your jacket, however, will not prevent a determined threat from causing you bodily harm. To stop a violent attack you must be prepared to counter with _force adequate to end the confrontation_. Therein lies the compromise. In exchange for realizing the benefits of a pocket pistol's small size, light weight and ease of concealment, you trade accuracy, capacity, and ease of handling and power. So while a pocket pistol might be the most convenient tool to have at hand, it is often far from ideal. The first step in dealing with it's limitations is realizing* it will likely be more difficult to defend yourself with a pocket pistol than with any other firearm*.


I hope this helps with understanding some of the issues involved in choosing a defensive pistol and understanding the pros and cons of the different types of trigger systems offered by various models.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^ x3

After reading the post above as I hadnt seen it when I posted, the DA SA is a great point and should be listened to. My full size beretta takes a strong finger on the first shot, more than most DA so do your research. Also, safeties are something to look at as said. Best defense gun is fire ready.

For an affordable and quality weapon, I like rugers. The wife likes my sr9c but it is a little heavy. She shot my buddies LCP9c and liked it so i considered the raspberry colored, but in the end got her a LCR and changed the grip to a pink one(many options available. Can get a decent one for about $30). Easy gun to use, and enough rounds to stop a bad guy. She does like my G23, but that is a lot more expensive for something purely used for self defense. With the ruger you do have to consider the life of the barrel and other parts. For the most part I understand the LC models will last 4-5k rounds, my SR more than 25k(so far they aren't finding them to fail at that point) and a glock should get past 40k. So consider how much you shoot. If you have other target pistols and just have her go out and pattern the self defense, than a ruger should suit your needs. That said, still avoid the hi-point type handguns and 22 calibers. Some 22 are great as posted previously, others just want to jam.


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## sknabnoj (Nov 29, 2012)

I really like the Walther P380. It has some really nice ergonomics, especially if you have smaller hands. You can get the laser, it's easy to carry and the.380 is a decent carry round. You should look into it, my wife loves hers.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Uh really? You are quoting "American Rifleman", the same magazine the next month or so later touted the 22WMR as a defense round? 380ACP Pocket pistol is bad, but a 22WMR is ok? 

LOL

Until I got the LCP, there were days I could and could not carry my XD40, depending on clothing, weather etc etc. I always have my LCP with me in a pocket now. A LCP in your pocket far out weights a 9mm, .40, .45 etc sitting home on your dresser.

Back to the OP, I agree with letting your wife pick the gun. Show her a bunch, let her shoot a bunch, but in the end let her choose "her" gun. Happy wife happy life.

-DallanC


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

The .22 Mag as a defensive round article assigned to that particular writer by the editor because a couple of ammo makers have touted the .22 Mag (as well as a certain segment of the shooting population).
He took a look at the ammo choices and reported on their ballistics. Certainly while he tried to have an unbiased view of the subject, in the end a careful reading of the conclusion said that if you must, this certain ammo was your best choice, and that for some people with issues the .22 Mag may be an option. However a careful reading certainly would give no impression that the round was any 9mm or even .380.

Certainly any professional, or even a person with some experience with pistols both large and small, would agree with the inescapable fact that because of a pocket pistol's small size, light weight and ease of concealment, you trade accuracy, capacity, and ease of handling and power. With their light weight and short sight radius (coupled with a heavy DAO trigger in many cases) you lose accuracy. Obviously they have a lesser capacity than larger pistols in order to make them small. Because they are so small and light they are less easy to handle, including in recoil management and follow-up shot recovery and speed. And I doubt you would get much argument that the common .380 round performs much poorer in the FBI ballistic protocol tests simply because due to physics there is only so much penetration and expansion to be had with a bullet that light at that velocity. The 9mm Luger (and especially +P loads), .40 S&W, .357 Mag, and .45 ACP are way ahead of it in performance. In fact the .38 Special is the best performing of the non-major power calibers.

Therefore, despite the _source_ of the statement you take issue with, the _opinions_ stated still remain valid. Nothing in the article condemned carrying small sub-caliber pocket pistols across the board, it merely highlighted that if you choose that convenience, it will take much more practice to perform up to standard in a gunfight for the stated reasons. And that is what most of the pocket pistol article dealt with. And that should at least be known before we make our CC choice.

A small, sub-caliber pocket pistol is chosen because it is very _convenient_ to carry, not because it (and its caliber in many cases) are _optimum_ in a gunfight.
Recognizing this, if you _choose_ to carry one, the need for more than normal practice - and the very best in ammo/bullet choices - is the beginning of wisdom.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Well I'm certainly not going to disagree with what you wrote. Nor am i trying to say the pocket pistols are the perfect choice... there is no perfect choice. More power = harder to conceal. Different people will have different core needs, concealability can outweigh power. Its all about the tradeoffs.

Only 2 points I will mention. Bullet technology has come leaps and bounds over years past. Smaller calibers now, are doing what some larger calibers were doing in the 80's due to construction improvements and other things. Sure larger calibers gain the same improvements, but their power wasn't in doubt back then either.

Secondly, I thought out of a 2" sub, a 38 has only roughly the same velocity as a 380 pocket pistol? I know I've read several articles on this... so what gun the round is fired out of does make alot of difference. The 38 is absolutely better, in that even at the same velocity its packing more lead, and pushing that out of a 4" barrel is what makes that particular cartridge shine.

One of my favorite articles on stopping power, had a tremendous amount of research done on, shows pretty much caliber really doesn't matter. Its all about bullet placement. Pocket pistols are certainly harder to shoot, so thats up to the shooter to determine what will serve their needs.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

-DallanC


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

I would certainly like to hear what choice was made by the Mrs. In fact, I have a few of those low powered, uncontrollable firearms you can shoot if needed.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

.45 said:


> I would certainly like to hear what choice was made by the Mrs. In fact, I have a few of those low powered, uncontrollable firearms you can shoot if needed.


Sounds like your safe is a little too full, mine still has room, I could do you a favor. :mrgreen: I was looking to surprise her, we will see how that goes.


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## scott_rn (Sep 11, 2007)

I'll be interested in hearing too. We've been gun shopping the last few days and I think my wife has decided she wants a 357, loaded with 38 unless she's in bear country. I don't have a cc gun, but carry a 44 mag in the back country. I hate the thought of more and more sizes of ammo floating around, but I don't want to push her into buying a bigger gin either.


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## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

Not saying it's good or bad, but it is another option on the market.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

I looked at that. Looks very interesting. Fits the niche below:

Glock is also coming out with the new G42. Nobody knows exactly what it will be (as far as I know) but major speculation is on it being a slim single-stack subcompact 9mm (and .40 would likely join it) much like the existing XD-S, S&W M&P Shield.
Will be announced at the SHOT show this month.

This end of the market is currently hot and for good reason.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Have you looked at the Beretta Nano, Huge? I've got one, and I love it. If you'd like to take a look, just give me a shout.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Chaser said:


> Have you looked at the Beretta Nano, Huge? I've got one, and I love it. If you'd like to take a look, just give me a shout.


I haven't, what is the price range of that one?


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I carry a nano too. The size and weight is perfect my only complaint is the horribly long and heavy trigger pull makes accuracy tough. But it's nice it fits in a pocket or iwb or deep carry. I got mine new for under $450.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Mavis13 said:


> I carry a nano too. The size and weight is perfect my only complaint is the *horribly long and heavy trigger pull makes accuracy tough.* But it's nice it fits in a pocket or iwb or deep carry. I got mine new for under $450.


This seems to be the common complaint among all of them in this class. I read one review where he finally got it to work well by a really firm grip and only using his fingertip FWIW.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I've had better luck with a soft hold. I practice with it at about 10 yards and I can keep the groups under 2" if I'm careful. At the same distance with my Buckmark I can do much better. Like you say, I don't know of a small carry gun that is any better. It wasn't built to be a target gun for sure. The trigger on it feels like the small hammer-less revolvers but it's much slimmer and the sights are fixed. but at the distances one would be shooting in defense - seems great to me. My sister likes to shoot it; I'd call her an average sized woman so it's worth looking at. I took a very small lady coworker out and let her try it she's like 5' and 98lbs. She had no trouble handling it and said she liked it(for what that's worth). The thing is smaller than my hand and my pinky hangs off the bottom but I don't have any trouble. Is she going to carry it on her person on in a hand bag? Perhaps that's where you aught to start. If she's going to have it on her than smaller is generally better. If not then a nice subcompact with double action might be better.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Huge29 said:


> This seems to be the common complaint among all of them in this class. I read one review where he finally got it to work well by a really firm grip and only using his fingertip FWIW.


Yup, that's the tradeoff for not needing a safety on a non-captive firing pin gun.

What works for me is my non-trigger finger hand, I press my thumb pretty hard against the side of the trigger guard. It keeps me from torquing the gun during the pull.

-DallanC


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

In the Nano class both the S&W M&P Shield and the Springfield XDS have far superior triggers to the Nano. The Kahr PM trigger is superior as well.
That fact keeps the Beretta a distance below the three above - as good carry choices. Fighting a trigger is a bad thing. And while not perfect, other offerings have decidedly better triggers.

##################################

On another note, the size of the new crop of mini single stack 9mm/.40 pistols is pretty impressive. They are the size of the older straight blowback operation .380s like the Walther PPk, and the Bersa among others. In addition their locked-breech Browning designs help tone down recoil in a pistol of that size, because a blowback design needs a heavy slide to retard the action until pressure drops. This heavy slide adds to felt recoil.

While going to the 9mm in a pistol this size adds recoil, the locked-breech designs mitigates some of that extra recoil.

It is the use of a locked-breech design that make the Ruger LCP's .380 able to work in a gun so small.

Here are a couple of comparison pics I was able to take of a 9mm Luger S&W M&P Shield (right & bottom) compared to a Bersa .380 Thunder:


















Both have the same capacity and weigh the basically the same. The Smith is narrower and a hair shorter in height and length. But it chambers the more powerful round in either 9mm or .40 S&W.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

Frisco Pete,
As always you provided some really good info.
In your opinion if you were to carry a "nano" size pistol in a minimum of 9mm luger which would you have? I'd like very much to find one with the nice trigger pull of a double action and still have the slim snag less design of the nano. Would it be the S&W?


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

The S&W M&P Shield 9mm would be my choice. The audible reset on it is actually better than on the full size M&Ps, and the consistent weight/pull length trigger pull measures a very doable 6.5 lbs - that is consistent with other striker fired pistols like the Glock or XD/XDM. It seems to have good reviews for a CC defensive carry pistol trigger. The trigger breaks really clean after ¼" of light takeup and the reset is audible and highly tactile, which, as mentioned, are the trigger's best features. Most feel it is a better trigger than the full-size M&Ps have overall though a slight reduction in weight would be nice. But it is the primary safety on this carry pistol. 
If you still end up wishing for a better trigger Apex Tactical has a Shield Carry Kit you can add down the road.
http://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid65.html

I would suggest looking at them and trying one out anyway. Reviews have been positive - much more so than the Nano if you pay close attention.



> The Nano's trigger is the biggest fly in the ballistic ointment. The baby Beretta may emulate a Glock with its inline trigger safety, but it has none of the pleasure of a Glock's go-pedal. The Nano's heavy nine-pound bang switch has a long drag, and the journey's not a smooth one...


While there was a trigger recall on the Shield earlier this year, it affected few guns, and you can easily determine if the Shield is a faulty one very simply in the store by following the steps shown in a S&W video on the recall.

It is early to tell yet, but the more expensive XDS had a trigger recall and reports are coming back of a "fixed" but degraded mushy trigger pull. The added cost of an XDS would pay for most of the Apex trigger kit for a Shield.

The Ruger LCR has a really long DAO pull and slow reset as the trigger has to be let out about all the way. The sight dots are also quite small in comparison with the Smith.

The Kahr PM9 has a good smooth DAO trigger with no short reset. It is quite DA revolver-like, but I am used to Glock-like quick reset triggers rather than letting the trigger all the way and re pulling the long pull for follow-up shots.

As to this thread's application as to "best pistols for women", I just saw an NRA TV show segment where 10 women were learning to shoot defensive handguns. 8 of 10 liked the Shield, with the other 2 not having the strength to rack the slide as the reason the Shield didn't work for them. I thought about this thread when I saw that.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Cool info Pete.


-DallanC


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## EmmTee (Jan 15, 2014)

I recently purchased a Makarov .380 with plans to make it my CCW piece.... my mistake was letting the wife shoot it. She put one right between the eyes at 25 feet and promptly stole it away from me. Oh well, "happy wife, happy life".


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