# GWP/lab for me?



## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Ok, so this is not a Lab vs. GWP thread. Rather a two great dogs thread and need help with any considerations I may not have thought of in making a decision. I have read every post available on this forum on these two breeds. Also searched many websites and read many books. Here is how I understand the two breeds and the pros and cons for me. Please feel free to dispel any of my misconceptions.

Labs 

Pros- 
Easier to train
More breeders=more selection
More family oriented
Less prey (fur) drive-safer for pets/kids
Better water dog for duck hunting
Better looking
Better for cold weather hunting

Cons-
They poop
Sheds more-dander
More Breeders= harder to find a quality dog
Huge tail that knocks over everything 
Less stamina and ability for upland game 
Tend to weigh more 

GWP

Pros- 
Hair-less shedding dander
Fewer breeders = quality dog easier to find
Ugly as He(( and I love it
Prey (fur) drive – stronger hunter
Equal in water or on upland game

Cons-
They poop
Harder to train
Hair- requires more grooming care
Not as hardy for the cold weather
Fewer breeders = less selection 


I am favoring the GWP right now, even with the lists being uneven. The dog will likely be allowed inside and I’m kind of a cleaning freak (as much as you can be with kids). That’s why I favor the GWP’s hair and shorter tail. Obviously this would be a hunting dog but need t to be great around family as well. I have a 3 year old so I worry a little about the prey drive and the dog getting out of control. I had a Chesapeake when my 5 year old was one and had to put him down because his temperament was dangerous around him and anyone else for that matter. Seeing the pictures on here with the GWP sleeping with the kid, eased my fear a little. The dog will hunt about 60% waterfowl and 40% upland. A concern I have is that right now I only have .25 acres until my wife and I finish school in two years and can move, will that be enough room if I take him on my daily runs? What about male vs. female? Would having a female affect the hunting drive? I would have the dog spayed/neutered either way. I am not looking to trial the dog or breed it, just a good hunting/family dog.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm so conflicted right now.








Don't worry about space. 1/4 acre is all I have as well. Take the dog running like you said and it will help both of you.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

GWP's yes have very strong prey drives, but also are very loyal! The prey drive is towards feather, fur and fin! Not human. That does not mean that it could not end up bitting somone, but ANY dog could do that. I read one time there is more LAB bites than any other breed! I know there is more labs. My point is any dog can bite......

Anyway the choice you need to make is what you are going to hunt? If your a big time water fowl guy(sorry GWP guys) I would say a lab, but if upland is in there also... GWP gets my vote. But honestly you can find both in both breeds. 

The Labs Poop bigger to! And your right the tail! SOB... My kids have a lab in the house and she is perfect up til the point she gets excited and the tail is clearing a path!


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

BD, 

thats the best of both worlds right there.

TAK,

Thanks for the advice. The dog will hunt mainly waterfowl but he will also hunt upland. I had no idea that poop could be BIGGER. I've only owned labs and chesapeakes so everything was big. 

I'm strongly leaning towards a GWP/DD. Anybody know of any good litters coming up or on the ground? I've been looking at Shane LoveLands dogs up in Tremonton. Beautiful Dogs. Anyway keep the comments and input coming.

Thanks,


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

pm sent.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

truemule said:


> BD,
> 
> thats the best of both worlds right there.
> 
> ...


I am saying the LAB poop is bigger! Our little female Lab can lay a log out!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Labs

Pros-
Easier to train False
More breeders=more selection Means more watered down bloodlines
More family oriented Not even close! GWP's think they're human.
Less prey (fur) drive-safer for pets/kids I've seen GWP's AND labs that would eat you if given the chance, prey drive hase nothing to do with that. *Socialization!* Both are great with kids.
Better water dog for duck hunting Not really.
Better looking You're kidding! Right?
Better for cold weather hunting My GWP's have been hunted in -20 weather and it has yet to be too cold for them. How cold does it need to be before YOU quit?

Cons-
They poop True
Sheds more-dander I had a GWP that would out shed three labs. :shock: 
More Breeders= harder to find a quality dog True
Huge tail that knocks over everything Have you seen some of the tails on the DD dogs these days? :? 
Less stamina and ability for upland game True
Tend to weigh more Take away the chips and soda! 

GWP

Pros-
Hair-less shedding dander Most the time.
Fewer breeders = quality dog easier to find True
Ugly as He(( and I love it The face only a momma could love!
Prey (fur) drive - stronger hunter Prey drive is what gives them that edge and grit. Live with it!
Equal in water or on upland game Both very well!

Cons-
They poop Ya, Ya, Ya.
Harder to train That's a big negative! They train themselves! Just load your gun and shut your mouth!
Hair- requires more grooming care Mine get brushed, wait, I NEVER brush my dogs...
Not as hardy for the cold weather coughcoughbullsh!tcoughcough
Fewer breeders = less selection That's a bad thing how???

GWP's are the real deal. they do it all and do it all very well. Labs do two things very well, sit in a duck blind looking stupid and retrieve. Oh, and they'll keep the fleas off the good dogs. :wink:


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions TEX :lol: I am reading more about the training part. I was given the impression because of their drive they would be harder to train. But of the breeders I've talked to they all say the pups start to point and track with very little help. Whoi did you get Oprah from? do you have a suggestion on a kennel?


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

truemule said:


> Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions TEX :lol: I am reading more about the training part. I was given the impression because of their drive they would be harder to train. But of the breeders I've talked to they all say the pups start to point and track with very little help. Whoi did you get Oprah from? do you have a suggestion on a kennel?


I don't own Oprah, Zimmy does. She is a Treborwolf dog out of Boise ID but the word on the street is Bob West has packed it up and quit breeding dogs... I have my name on the list for a breeding that will happen next spring. So far I'm the only guy on the list. The breeding that is happening right now with the same dog is sold out. These dogs from this litter should be all that and a bag of chips! That's the only litter I know about right now. Keep your eye's open and you'll find a good dog. Ya, GWP's are very easy to train. They learn fast, are very intuitive, and love to please. They hunt for YOU and no one else. Most all the point, track, retrieve, drive, grit, and desire come pretty natural with these dogs. You really don't have to "train" any of that stuff. Just get some obedience in them to keep them honest and alive and step back and watch the fireworks.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

truemule said:


> Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions TEX :lol: I am reading more about the training part. I was given the impression because of their drive they would be harder to train. But of the breeders I've talked to they all say the pups start to point and track with very little help. Whoi did you get Oprah from? do you have a suggestion on a kennel?


You have got to have some sort of prey drive in these dogs!
Have you ever tried to train a dog with no drive for prey? It is not easy trust me! To much is kinda a pain also, but that only comes into play if your trying to get the dog to do unnatural things.... Steady to wing and shot is unnatural. The dogs have been breed since the turn of time to find/seek game and do what is going to bring it to the human. We as man has asked them to stand and look pretty and wait til we say when.
You want all the prey drive in teh world, but a brain controlling it to be able to be molded to our liking. 
The hardest dog to train is a dog that have no prey drive... Take SOME of your fancy good looking pointing dogs.... I have had a few in for training, pretty as a picture but would not put a bird in its mouth if it was starving to death! Same as even wanting to chase it! This is the one reason I preach trialing and testing! You have no question that them dogs are on the A game and need to be to compete. I am not saying just a good ol hunter aint got it either... FIND ONE WITH BOTH!

Tex-O-Bob your not the only one on that list but you are second!

Just kidding! But I think someone from this board has one on hold also..... !

See Tex-O-Bob has done his homework here. he is getting a pup from a bitch that is outstanding as a hunter, has the ped to back it up, and has every hair on her body that says prey drive, yet a brain that says when!


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

TAK said:


> You have got to have some sort of prey drive in these dogs!
> Have you ever tried to train a dog with no drive for prey?


Actually yes, the last dog (a lab) I had had absolutley no drive. If the bird would have fallen dead in front of him he wouldn't even have sniffed it. On the other hand I had a chessy that had enough drive for three dogs. He eventually had to be put down because of temper and biting when he was 4. This is probably why I am so focused on this. I have had both experiences and I don't want a repeat.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

truemule said:


> TAK said:
> 
> 
> > You have got to have some sort of prey drive in these dogs!
> ...


Like I said before, prey drive and a dog that bites people unprovoked are two DIFFERENT things! One has NOTHING to do with the other.

A dog that bites people for no reason or because they are short tempered or just plain mean has no place among us. They need to be socialized and conditioned at an early age that this sort of nonsense is not tolerated. My dog Tex was a mean snappy basterd. I had to tune that short temper out of him at an early age. He never bit anyone, but he **** sure would have had I not trained him to mind his manners. TAK knows exactly what kind of dog I'm talking about. That crap simply will no float in my kennel. Tuning Tex up to respect humans and be polite around other dogs did nothing to curb his drive on prey. He had plenty to spare and used it in the field to make him one of the most gritty, tough, hardest hunting, no quit havin, dogs I've ever seen. Oprah is another case in point. She is a gritty, tough, hard hunting little thing with TONS of snappy killem quick prey drive. Yet she is the sweetest most get in your lap and love ya dog you've ever been around. She's very polite around other dogs, but doesn't take crap from anyone. If your Chessie bit people it's because he was a dickhed and YOU didn't train him otherwise. Prey drive had nothing to do with his foul temper.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

truemule said:


> TAK said:
> 
> 
> > You have got to have some sort of prey drive in these dogs!
> ...


I think we both understand each other then.... But I think the Chessy was a stalion in the field but at home was a putz.... Now to me that is the brain part of it! A dog needs to have an understanding don't bite that hand that feeds you.


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

You won't go wrong with lookin' at a litter from Shane. He's a great guy, and has had some killer pups out of his females. Others up north would be Matt Norman, he has 2 breedings in the next couple of months, both come from great studs. Jason Wilde will also be having a litter that should be pretty sweet. Not sure if he has all his spots taken though. I think that's all for the northern guys.


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## Tripple FFF (Jul 5, 2008)

My new GWP will be born in soon so do ya want to buy a 2 year old lab?


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Nope, Don't want a lab. They are beutiful dogs but A GWP/DD fits the bill for me.


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