# Bummer Shotguns



## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Kind of highjacked Ganders thread. So lets start another one just about bad experiences with a certain makes of shotguns you've had. I truly believe most problems are self inflicted do to lack of cleanliness and care. But I would suppose every company has put out a lemon or two?

I've experimented with a few different makes and models of shotguns over the years. The only really bad experience I've had is with a Browning A500. Looking back, it basically was a Benelli Super 90 design that Browning copied and didn't work. It was a piss poor gun to say the least. It was only in production for a few years. I drank the Koolaid that Browning was pimping and bought my first semiautomatic. I was a Browning fan through and through at the time. I didn't realize at that time Browning was scrambling to find a cheap production semi to compete in the market. Well the A500 was a two shot wonder on a good day. It didn't matter how clean it was or wet or dry I ran it. It was so undependable and it was prone to crack the stock where the stock was fitted to the receiver. After the second stock cracked I sold it. I felt guilty as hell selling it but I basically gave it away.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

This thread wouldn't be complete without talking about the Marlin 55 a bolt action 12 ga goose gun. 

Those things would drop both you and the goose. I watched a friend bend one around a fence post after he shot it from a laying down position and the recoil almost buried him in the mud. 

But they did reach out and kill geese with that 36" full choked barrel.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Here are a few I had troubles with.
Browning Gold.….Fantastic gun in warm weather and a POS in cold weather
Remington 870 Super Mag....The best feeling/fitting shotgun I have shouldered, and the biggest POS I have ever owned. 
Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag.....Hardest kicking 12 gauge I have ever shot..14 shells through it and I said goodbye. It had a single slide bar on the pump action and was flimsy too.
Charles Dailey autoloader (not mine, but it ended up getting tossed into unit 1 Ogden Bay)


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

My first was a Walmart special Mossberg 500a pump. That thing would only cycle a shell if it was held perfectly vertical (or the pump action would bind up) and when held right, would still throw a new shell down in the mud /water at my feet more that it would in the chamber.... Didn’t think it was legal to sell such a POS!!


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

I also owned a Mossberg 835. It was my first 12 gauge so I didn’t know any better, but yes, that thing kicked like a mule. And it was so clunky and noisy racking the pump. But it served me well for a few seasons, so I can’t really complain too much. 

I owned a cheap Turkish built 12 gauge semi that was a one shot wonder. Only had it for like like a year before I got rid of it.

I also had a Mossberg over/under that had both a set of 20 gauge barrels, and 28 gauge barrels. The whole set was dipped in a nice waterfowl camo (aftermarket) and I picked it up for a screaming deal. I actually loved the fit of the gun, and shot it on and off for a season. Problem was that about every once and a while I’d pull the trigger and both barrels would fire at the same time. Two 3” mag loads out of a light O/U at the same time will get your attention! So that one got sold after about a year as well. I never even ran the 28 gauge barrel set.

And the last one is two sided. One of my favorite guns was a Winchester SX2 12 gauge. The thing fit me like a dream, and I shot it so well. Then one day it started having problems, and I could never get it back to normal. Sent it to Browning, and there money at it with other aftermarket fixes like a surecycle kit, and even had some custom work done to the gas piston by a gunsmith. It just wouldn’t reliably cycle anymore. Had one season where it failed me on early season September honkers, then in Saskatchewan on my first flock of geese feet down in the decoys. Finally on a layout boat hunt back home that same season it was acting up again and it very nearly ended up in the bottom of Farmington Bay. After that I switched full time to my Beretta O/U., and I sold it for next to nothing. Broke my heart because I loved it so much, but once it quit, it just gave up the ghost ALL THE WAY! Ended up being a blessing more than a curse though because once I started shooting a double barrel my accuracy went up dramatically. Having just two shots slowed me down and made me shoot better. I’ve still shot more doubles, and even triples with my O/U than any of my pumps or semi’s. So now when I go back to three shots I tend to shoot slower and steadier still.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Critter I've always wondered if a guy could get to the third shell with one of those old bolt action Marlins.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The second one would be tough enough.

I might have to see if I can find one at a good price just to have it sit in the safe


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Gander my CZ o/u 28ga would occasionally double. We were in Canada & my buddy was shooting it one morning. He says this is a sweet little gun, but how do ya get it to shoot just one barrel lol. I sad hold it tight to your shoulder. The mechanical triggers in those inexpensive imported (Turkish oh hell I go again) o/u's are not the best. With a firm mount it wouldn't double. It was a good little gun I just didn't care for the extractors. I traded it in for a 9mm pistol. Lost my a$$ on it.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

JerryH said:


> Gander my CZ o/u 28ga would occasionally double. We were in Canada & my buddy was shooting it one morning. He says this is a sweet little gun, but how do ya get it to shoot just one barrel lol. I sad hold it tight to your shoulder. The mechanical triggers in those inexpensive imported (Turkish oh hell I go again) o/u's are not the best. With a firm mount it wouldn't double. It was a good little gun I just didn't care for the extractors. I traded it in for a 9mm pistol. Lost my a$$ on it.


My Huglu O/U 12 gauge fired both barrels one time. There wasn't a lot left of the pigeon. Has never happened since.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Critter said:


> The second one would be tough enough.
> 
> I might have to see if I can find one at a good price just to have it sit in the safe


I might still have mine at my moms house somewhere.

With mine, no, I could never get to the third shell because the clip would fall out of the gun.

Yes, it was a very bad shotgun.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Had a Weatherby Auto in the mid 80's, don't remember the model but it was a beautiful looking weapon! Had to port it out .030 to eject lighter reloads and in the winter hunting waterfowl it turned into a single shot. That was a POS that went bye-bye!!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Similar experience to Fowlmouth with a Browning Gold. We had a 10 gauge when I was young that my dad just absolutely adored, but after less than one season the stupid thing wouldn't cycle shells. Basically became a really expensive single shot. He sent that thing back to Browning, they "fixed" it and sent it back. My dad and a friend went out and shot several boxes of 7 1/2s up to goose loads and the thing cycled flawlessly. First time out for geese, it went back to it's old ways and wouldn't cycle! My dad sent it back again, they sent him a new gun, and the **** thing did the same thing! Didn't matter whether clean or dirty...stupid POS.

My dad was so frustrated with it that he would actually pack an extra Browning 10 gauge pump with him as a backup gun. I was with him one morning in the goose field and saw him drop a goose with the Gold. Dumb thing wouldn't cycle and he spewed forth profanity, threw the gun down, picked up the pump and dropped a second goose out of the same flock! Pretty good concentration if you ask me. After that season, he dropped the Gold for good. Good riddance.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

he spewed forth profanity, threw the gun down, picked up the pump and dropped a second goose 


Love it!


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## saltydog (Feb 28, 2017)

With out a doubt a Mossburg 835 Ultimag with a 3.5" chamber. I bought it because at the time it was one of the only pumps with a 3.5" chambering.
It would jam or fail to feed about every second or third shell. No matter how clean it was, no matter the brand of ammo. It would do it with 2 3/4", 3" or 3.5" shells.
I spent a whole Saturday taking it apart and cleaning it, tweaking things trying to get it to work. I thought I had it. It cycled a whole magazine of 3". 
So I loaded it up again and low and behold the second shell jammed. Cleared the action and the next shell jammed. I unloaded it, set back and admired it for the POS that it was for a bit. 
Then I proceeded to smash it to pieces on my garage floor. The feeling of relief and satisfaction I felt by destroying it was unbelievable. That was probably 18 - 20 years ago, and I sometimes find little bits and pieces of it when I clean under my work bench. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when I do.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

If there is one thing I can not tolerate is a shotgun that does not function correctly. I have probably owned and shot around 50 different shotguns over the past 20 years. Just my hobby. I will work with a gun and get it working, but if does not function correctly more than once or twice on a hunt, it goes packing. Here is my list of guns that were the biggest bummers.

1- Charles Daley 20ga Semi (Turkish) - Single shot more often than a semi auto. Worked fine at the range, but every hunt it would jam up at the worst time.
2- Tristar Viper G2 410 Semi (Turkish) - Fought that thing for 2 years and probably spent 20 hours trying to make it work. After a cleaning, it would shoot 10 shells just fine and then jam every 2 or 3 shells.
3- Mossturd 935 - Most unbalanced heavy recoiling semi I have owned. Owned it for about 5 days. 
4- Browning 20ga - Liked the gun, but it kept damaging the piston. I would fix it and it would shoot about 20 rounds and damage the piston again. Finally just sold it.
5- NEF 12ga single - Kicked like a mule especially with duck loads. My dad gave it to me when I was 16, it worked, but that gun was unusable due to recoil.
6- Franchi al48 20ga Semi - This was an old abused gun. It never worked right from the time I got it to when I sold it. I ended up just being a single shot for the kids.

Lessons I have learned. All brands can have issues, but turkish semi autos are a recipe for problems. Small bore guns tend to have more problems than 12ga guns. Turkish doubles have a propensity to double fire as well. For semi auto, I prefer inertia as they tend to be more reliable than gas guns. IMO, Beretta is most reliable for doubles and Benelli for semi autos, but there can be lots of other guns that are reliable.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Toasty thanks for the review on the G2 410. I held one at Sportmans and I was tempted by the price. I don't need one but I'll keep searching for an 1100 in 410. Eventually the want will overpower the need:smile:


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

The one and only shotgun that gave me problems was my very first auto loader. A Benelli M2 12ga. That gun was a pile of junk. I spent $1400 on it and it mad it through 2 months and that was it! I bought it because the M2 is supposed to be the work horse.

The butt pad and cheek pad swelled up and rotted away and it wouldn’t cycle and would jam! 

It finally went inoperable in a goose field with UTbigbull and Foulmouth. Luckily I had my Benelli Nove as a backup.

I took the gun home and took it completely apart and blasted it out with shotgun blaster and lubed it up and put it back together.. wouldn’t cycle or even latch close. So I took it apart again all the way and sifted it in the bath tub under water and blew it out with an air compressors then lubed it back up and put it back together and STILL WOULDNT CYCLE! I sent it back to Benelli and immediately bought an SX3 and haven’t looked back!!!

I got my M2 back and they left a report of the gun I do the box. Benelli said “ the gun was dirty and there was no lube in it. So they cleaned it and sharpened the extractor tooth and sent it back! Completely BS!! I can’t believe that was their report. They are full of $hit! I sold that gun right then and there! 

I’m certain I got a lemon..


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

goosefreak said:


> Luckily I had my Benelli Nove as a backup.


I love my Nova...that gun has never failed me, and it's easy-peasy to field strip and clean!


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

Toasty, I'm discouraged to here your experience with the Viper G2 410. I picked one up this summer for my kids because I had read so many good reviews about the 410 version. 

I'm already in with both feet for this season, so I guess we'll see how it goes, and cross my fingers for the best. Mine will probably get relatively limited use. I'd be surprised if we run 5 boxes of shells through it all season.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Browning Maxus.

Against my better judgment, in 2015 I got rid of my Benelli SBE2 and picked up a Maxus. WORST. DECISION. EVER.

No matter what I did with/to the gun, it would fail to eject. I had a few different gunsmiths look at it and finally sent it back to the factory. The day I got it back, I sold it on KSL.com with the disclaimer that it had issues before and I had not touched it since receiving it back from the factory. 

I picked up a M2 a few days later and have never looked back. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who shoot Maxus' and love them, but I'm not one of them.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

It looks like the Autoloader industry is the one with most the issues as I read along. 


After my experience with the Weatherby, I never took another Auto in the blind. I'll take a shoulder bruise any day with a limit of birds, rather than a bad attitude and one bird. Pump gun for me in the cold marsh or chuker hunts.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

MWScott72 said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Luckily I had my Benelli Nove as a backup.
> ...


Solid choice for a pump gun!


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

Fortunately unlike Toasty my two little g2's 410's are treating me ok. I did learn that they are very finicky with reloaded shells but once I got the sizing down and length down they feed 3" hulls just fine now. I used this wood version 26" barrel almost exclusively two years ago until my daughter took it over at the end of the season and the beginning of last season so I bought a 28" bronze version and she moved on to my g2 28 gauge soon after. I won't tell you that they don't have problems as the 28 gauge gave me lots of fits last year. I just finally got it figured out that the elevator got just slightly bent from a bad batch of cheddite hulls that were popping primers out and wedging up in the action. Tristar was great thought with sending me new parts overnight at no charge and she's back up and running just fine again. They are a gamble but so far the 3 I own have been pretty good guns and tristar is quick to remedy issues of they arise. The only thing I think that would be better is if they had a stronger action spring but unfortunately there are still no aftermarket ones available.























Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

That post was for gander and jerry lol. Dang reply on tapacrap lol

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I once had a Wingmaster that would seize up and wouldn’t shuffle if it got hot after shooting a round of clays. I’d prob get about one box through it before it would have a hard time shuffling a shell in. 

After 50 rounds, it became inoperable.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

hamernhonkers said:


> That post was for gander and jerry lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I know about 10 guys that have a 410 G2. 5 of them are running fine, and 5 have had major problems. 50/50 gamble that you get one that works. Of all of the guys that have them, I don't know anyone that has put more rounds through it than hammernhonkers. I wanted that gun to work so bad, but I am OK now that I have a 410 pump that works all of the time. I have put about 250 rounds through it with no problems (after removing a chip on the extracter) and it was only $275.

Don't laugh, it is a Tristar Cobra II 410 pump available exlusively at Walmart. The thing is the ugliest gun I own, but it is light, functions well, and I can shoot it just as well at clays as my 28ga and 20ga guns. Here is a review I did of the gun on 28ga society forum. I have 150 tungsten loads ready to go for this duck season.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/28gasociety/new-410-pump-review-t2355514.html


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## pollo70 (Aug 15, 2016)

For the price! My Remington 870 express is all I need. good quality and performs excellent! never had any issues


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

pollo70 said:


> For the price! My Remington 870 express is all I need. good quality and performs excellent! never had any issues


870s are a great pump gun! There is a reason they are so popular.

After reading the posts on this forum, looks like Browning has a ways to go in the autoloader category. Way too many issues for an established company that's been around a long time!


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

MWScott72 said:


> 870s are a great pump gun! There is a reason they are so popular.
> 
> After reading the posts on this forum, looks like Browning has a ways to go in the autoloader category. Way too many issues for an established company that's been around a long time!


I LOVE my modern A5!! Yeah, it had a couple kinks in the beginning I have worked out (Browing had to put an updated spring in it to feed 3 1/2" rounds instead of stove piping after she got broke in and had a feed fork break), but the last two seasons she has been running flawless. Haven't shouldered a gun yet that fits me like that A5 does.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

I've never ever heard of any problems with a Wingmaster. Had mine for almost 40 years never had a issue, but hey anyone can get a lemon once in a while. Never got why anyone needs an auto .


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## 270win (Sep 16, 2010)

Have never had any issues with my wingmaster, but the pheasants did, back in the day when there were wild free roaming pheasants.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Never got why anyone needs an auto
> .


Shoot one and you'll know. 8)


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

7MM RELOADED said:


> I've never ever heard of any problems with a Wingmaster. Had mine for almost 40 years never had a issue, but hey anyone can get a lemon once in a while. Never got why anyone needs an auto .


It was the most frustrating thing. I'd forget it did that and would go shooting with a buddy and it'd lock up every time.

Hunting never gave me any problems though


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## Dexter (Sep 23, 2018)

Just purchased a T/C Encore ProHunter. I am considering buying a 20 gauge barrel for it. Besides being a single shot, has anyone ever had/heard of any troubles with this gun being used as a shotgun? By the way, my Remington 870 12 gauge has been an awesome trouble free gun as well.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I guess I have been lucky. The 1st shotgun I bought was a Winchester 1200 back in the late 70s. Works well still. Since I have added a Remington 11-87, 870 express, Beretta over under 20 gauge and a Benelli Super Nova. They have all performed well. Mainly shoot the Benelli now. Grandson shoots the rest.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Irish Lad said:


> I guess I have been lucky. The 1st shotgun I bought was a Winchester 1200 back in the late 70s. Works well still. Since I have added a Remington 11-87, 870 express, Beretta over under 20 gauge and a Benelli Super Nova. They have all performed well. Mainly shoot the Benelli now. Grandson shoots the rest.


I still have a Winchester 1200 that I got at Reed's Billiards on the top of the Orem hill on state street that I got way back in 1969. It still kills quite well but since steel shot is the thing for waterfowl I keep it for the upland game. I have looked at a new barrel but just haven't pulled the trigger.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I still have a Winchester 1200 that I got at Reed's Billiards on the top of the Orem hill on state street that I got way back in 1969. It still kills quite well but since steel shot is the thing for waterfowl I keep it for the upland game. I have looked at a new barrel but just haven't pulled the trigger.[/QUOTE]

I got mine at a Big 5. I bought a 26" ribbed barrel for it years ago. It's a very smooth pump gun. It's taken alot of dove, quail and ducks.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

What's the difference between the Winchester 1200, 1300 and the Ranger 120? I think the barrels all interchange. The barrel on my Ranger 120 broke and I swapped it with a 1300 barrel. Different years of manufacture dates is the difference I suppose.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I believe the 1300 will shoot 3" shells.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The 1200 will also shoot 3" shells. 

I haven't looked in a long time but I believe that all the barrels will interchange, but don't take my word for it.


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## Joh Fredersen (Sep 24, 2013)

The first firearm I ever bought with my own $ was from "The Trapper's Den" in Logan. 
It was a used Winchester 1400 autoloader.
It was obviously traded or pawned because 2-3 times out of 10 it would randomly eject the second shell out the bottom lifter instead of feeding. I'd rack the action to get the third shell in to get the second shot off.
I tried everything an 18 yo me knew to fix it. 
I suffered through it till I bought an 11-87 SP with my college student loan money.


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## Pumpgunner (Jan 12, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> Here are a few I had troubles with.
> Browning Gold.&#8230;.Fantastic gun in warm weather and a POS in cold weather
> Remington 870 Super Mag....The best feeling/fitting shotgun I have shouldered, and the biggest POS I have ever owned.
> Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag.....Hardest kicking 12 gauge I have ever shot..14 shells through it and I said goodbye. It had a single slide bar on the pump action and was flimsy too.
> Charles Dailey autoloader (not mine, but it ended up getting tossed into unit 1 Ogden Bay)


Just out of curiosity Fowl, what year was your Super Mag? I have been shooting a early 2000s one for the last 14 seasons as my main waterfowl gun and I've never had any real malfunction or a serious problem with it, at one point I replaced the extractor with a stainless one but other than that its been trouble free. Word on the street though is that any one made after 2012 or so is a total POS, Remington got bought out and the quality of the 870 went in the trash. Sad because it's one of the great American workhorse shotguns and the new ones aren't worthy of the name.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Pumpgunner said:


> Just out of curiosity Fowl, what year was your Super Mag? I have been shooting a early 2000s one for the last 14 seasons as my main waterfowl gun and I've never had any real malfunction or a serious problem with it, at one point I replaced the extractor with a stainless one but other than that its been trouble free. Word on the street though is that any one made after 2012 or so is a total POS, Remington got bought out and the quality of the 870 went in the trash. Sad because it's one of the great American workhorse shotguns and the new ones aren't worthy of the name.


It was a 2012 model.....


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