# Muzzleloader shooting gone bad....



## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

**can't get Facebook video to embed...and can't delete post?

link to FB post (not mine)....



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154805300435846


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

Double load? Barrel obstruction?

That dude is lucky to have hands and a face still. :shock:


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

"WOW" I wonder if he left his ramrod in the barrel.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

plottrunner said:


> "WOW" I wonder if he left his ramrod in the barrel.


Nah, leaving your ramrod in your barrel won't do that......... haha

Crazy video. I think I'd rather have that happen than a carbon arrow blow-up.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

That looks like it could be one of those fancy new Remington muzzle loaders that you fill the barrel with powder and then put a bullet on it to get maximum magnum results. 

It is really hard to tell, it doesn't look like there is enough smoke out of the barrel to be a ML load but too much to be a smokeless load. 

But it did wake him up.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> That looks like it could be one of those fancy new Remington muzzle loaders that you fill the barrel with powder and then put a bullet on it to get maximum magnum results.


Yep, Its not a 700ML for sure, we have two of those. The config seems to match the Ultimate. Possibly double charged it... I dunno.

I'll stick with my sub-max loads.



Packout said:


> Nah, leaving your ramrod in your barrel won't do that......... haha


I spent about 4 hours with a metal detector once looking for that. I thought it would have been a fantastic Christmas gag present.

-DallanC


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## hondodawg (Mar 13, 2013)

Incredible he didn't get more injuries. On a side note crazy it's on the same day on Facebook.
Did you guys see the video of the .500 S&W blowing up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

plottrunner said:


> "WOW" I wonder if he left his ramrod in the barrel.


My brother killed a buck a couple years back with his ramrod... buck had two entrance wounds, a single exit wound, and the bullet in like new condition still in the animal... it was quite the rodeo. It took us a while to figure out what happened, didn't realize what went down until he couldn't find his ramrod.


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

You're right about the smoke, I also can figure out why it has a muzzle brake on it. When you blow it up and pause it, it almost looks like the bolt of a Winchester Model 70. It's hard to tell because it loses picture clarity the bigger it gets. I'm not so sure it's a muzzleloader.

scratch that, It looks like a UML...


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## plottrunner (Apr 3, 2008)

Here is more information about it...https://www.facebook.com/courtney.crane17/posts/10154805301780846?pnref=story


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

While I was in the Corps, stationed back east, I watched this happen to a buddy. He had never been hunting before and we were getting ready for the Whitetail Muzzy hunt. We determined after the fact that he had not properly tamped down the bullet on top of the powder, leaving an air pocket. He lost his thumb off his left hand and his career in the Corps. Very lucky not to have lost his vision, as I was certain he was going to. Made me a lot more conscious of double, triple, and quadruple checking when loading a ML.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I'll admit, seeing stuff like this had me pretty scared of something like that happening the first time I ever shot my muzzleloader. I guess a healthy dose of fear keeps me careful, though, so that's good. Glad to see the guy will be ok in the long run.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Pyrodex power is supposed to be compressed to a certain pressure. They even made a "clicker" tool that fit on your ramrod that "clicked" when you applied the proper pressure seating the load.

I've often wondered why all of these tools and knowledge have fallen by the wayside in such a short period of time.


-DallanC


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

I bought a leftover muzzleloader tag this year since I didn't draw on the rifle hunt. I've been having fun getting my muzzleloader to shoot well. But man, I think I'm going to stick with the rifle hunt once I get done with my hunt this year after hearing about all this happening. They're fun shooting but I don't really want to blow my hands off. The scary part is they don't even know what happened. My guess would be what USMARINEhuntinfool mentioned; small air pocket left between powder and bullet. It's terrifying either way.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

My bet is that they used some smokeless powder in the charge. If you watch the explosion there is no way enough smoke for them to of been using black powder or a black powder substitute.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

moabxjeeper said:


> I bought a leftover muzzleloader tag this year since I didn't draw on the rifle hunt. I've been having fun getting my muzzleloader to shoot well. But man, I think I'm going to stick with the rifle hunt once I get done with my hunt this year after hearing about all this happening. They're fun shooting but I don't really want to blow my hands off. The scary part is they don't even know what happened. My guess would be what USMARINEhuntinfool mentioned; small air pocket left between powder and bullet. It's terrifying either way.


It's all about paying attention... simple yet potentially catastrophic errors can be made with any weapon...

Think about shooting a flawed/weakened arrow from your compound bow and having it shatter or a string/limb fail... 
A handloader double charging a cartridge or making an error on the scale and overcharging or having compromised brass...
A muzzleloader hunter who mistakenly double charges or doesn't seat a bullet properly...

It can happen with any weapon, muzzleloaders aren't inherently more dangerous than any other weapon. If you aren't paying attention to the little details and being consistent then you can have this stuff happen.


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

Critter said:


> My bet is that they used some smokeless powder in the charge. If you watch the explosion there is no way enough smoke for them to of been using black powder or a black powder substitute.


I wondered about this too. 0 smoke whatsoever from a muzzleloader is not a good sign.


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

derekp1999 said:


> It's all about paying attention... simple yet potentially catastrophic errors can be made with any weapon...
> 
> Think about shooting a flawed/weakened arrow from your compound bow and having it shatter or a string/limb fail...
> A handloader double charging a cartridge or making an error on the scale and overcharging or having compromised brass...
> ...


True enough. My dad always tells me a story about going deer hunting with a couple buddies of his when they were younger. I'm not sure how it happened but he looked over and his one friend had mud completely covering the end of the barrel on his rifle. He told him about it and instead of him trying to scrape it out like a civilized person, he pulls the safety off and points his gun in the air! My dad and everyone else hit the deck once they realized what he was doing. He proceeded and fired a shot (from the hip of course). LUCKILY, nothing happened. But that 2 seconds when he decided he'd shoot it out rather than cleaning it out could have potentially cost him big time.

I agree that accidents do happen even when you do everything right, but 99.9% of the time, they can be prevented with proper research, knowledge and safety precautions. I may have exaggerated some in that I won't be shooting my muzzleloader anymore. But I'd be lying if hearing about stuff like that doesn't get into your head. I never load mine anywhere near the max recommended load. I shoot Blackhorn 209 and they say max load is about 120 grains for that. I shoot 100 grains just to be safe. My manual says my gun is rated for 150 grains of Pyrodex or equivalent. Even when I used pellets, I never shot more than 2 50 grain charges at a time.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Most if not all muzzle loader rifles will handle the maximum powder charge with zero problems and even over the max load. The problem comes in when people think that they are smarter than the manufacture and start to double load, use some smokeless powder, and other things that they shouldn't do. These are the same people that if they reload metal cartridges will push the maximum and go beyond the safe loads that are published. 

I never have shot a max load in any of my muzzle loaders. I have found that the best accuracy is around 100 grains a little one ways or another and don't see a need to push the envelope. But this guy looks like he was shooting a Remington UM and it would be quite interesting to see just what his load was.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I will use my guns max load with elk loads, 120gr Pyrodex under a 300gr XTP. Its thus far very safe and killed elk dead as doornails. Remington came out later and upped the "safe max" for the M700ML to 150gr but I've never gone above 120 ever.


-DallanC


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

Critter said:


> I never have shot a max load in any of my muzzle loaders. I have found that the best accuracy is around 100 grains a little one ways or another and don't see a need to push the envelope. But this guy looks like he was shooting a Remington UM and it would be quite interesting to see just what his load was.


Nor have I. This is the reason I stick to 100 grains. Anything more or less doesn't shoot as well with the 300 grain bullets I'm pushing. No need to push it any further.

I don't know if those Remington UM guns are the ones I'm thinking of, but I know some muzzleloaders nowadays are rated for up to 4 pellets. Some brag of 300 yard accuracy. I hit at 200 yards with mine and felt like I was pushing it, so that's about my limit. I can't believe some of the stuff they're trying to come up with.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

moabxjeeper said:


> I don't know if those Remington UM guns are the ones I'm thinking of, but I know some muzzleloaders nowadays are rated for up to 4 pellets.


Thats right.



> Some brag of 300 yard accuracy. I hit at 200 yards with mine and felt like I was pushing it, so that's about my limit. I can't believe some of the stuff they're trying to come up with.


The thing is, accuracy is that magic ratio of powder, bullet, ignition etc, that results in bullets following the same path consistently. Range is irrelevant usually to accuracy (ignoring precession phenomenon).

Any accurate muzzleloader, be it matchlock, flintlock, caplock etc, can accurately shoot at 300 and well beyond. Accuracy is measured in minutes of angle, and that usually (precession side) remains consistent at any range. All you need is a good drop chart and sights that allow for the horrific drop muzzleloaders of all types have.

General John Segwick in the civil war was killed at 1000 yards by a sniper using a muzzleloader.

Billy Dixon at the battle of Adobe Walls, shot a indian at 1,538 with a black powder cartridge rifle (distance verified by army corp of engineers). It's believed he used a .50-110 (which is very similar to the charges we use today in our smokepoles).

History is fun stuff.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

There was a Utah elk hunt on TV last night where the hunter was using a Gunworks Muzzle loader. He took the shot at 1000 yards and dropped the bull. 

For some reason this just isn't hunting with a ML. But a single shot rifle.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> There was a Utah elk hunt on TV last night where the hunter was using a Gunworks Muzzle loader. He took the shot at 1000 yards and dropped the bull.


Yup... and rifles are doing it at upwards of 2000 yards now and bows are doing it at +100.



> For some reason this just isn't hunting with a ML. But a single shot rifle.


Yup... and it always has been.

-DallanC


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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

Critter said:


> There was a Utah elk hunt on TV last night where the hunter was using a Gunworks Muzzle loader. He took the shot at 1000 yards and dropped the bull.
> 
> For some reason this just isn't hunting with a ML. But a single shot rifle.


Opinions may flare on this, but I completely agree. This is no longer hunting. This is just shooting. Hunting is ensuring you're within ethical range to confidently place a shot that will bring a quick kill to the animal. Yeah, he may be a hero for the pure chance he had for the bullet to connect and still have enough energy to kill the animal at that range, but they're not going to show you the animals that were hit in the leg, hind quarters, etc, and left to to die a slow and painful death.

You can't tell me there was no possible chance of him getting closer than 1000 yards on an animal. If that's the case, he is a good shooter and an extremely poor hunter.

Again, just my opinion. Fire away.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

When was a muzzleloader ever NOT considered a single shot rifle?


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