# Ladder test



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Here is my first step in ladder test at 300 yards. It was windy and hot today. The mirage was also bad but it looks like the test may have worked.

First two shots were left over regular
.243 rounds with 43 grains of imr 7828 powder and they touched on the tape. 
The next shot was 43 AI and it hit slightly low. Of the regular ones.

You can see the rest of the shots they are pretty self explanatory. Looks like the node is some where arround 45 grains. Have any of you done a ladder test? How did it work out.? It shows some promise if I play arround with a few groups with the same powder in + or - a few grains from 45

Thoughts?









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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Only load I can find that used IMR 7828 sc is this one and his gun liked 46.5 grains.

7828 doesn't look like it's a popular powder but it's some I had left over. I may try this again with a more popular powder in a few weeks. Right now I have to be done with load work up with this powder by this week end.

Even with the ladder test with several different charge weights it would hammer an antelope at 300 yards.









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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I thought I understood what "Shooting Ladders" meant but maybe I don't.

It does appear that you are right about the ideal powder being in the 45gr. range but I'm not sure that one shot of each charge is telling enough.

I thought usually a person loads varying charges in 3-5 round groups then shoots each charge weight sequentially through the range.

ie.

load 3 rounds each of 40gr., 41gr., 42gr, 43gr.

Then shoot 
1-40, 1-41, 1-42, 1-43 all at different targets...

then...
1-43, 1-42, 1-41, 1-40 at those same targets again...

lastly...
1-40, 1-41, 1-42, 1-43

That way the groups for each charge can be compared and the 40gr charge doesn't always get the cold barrel. I thought that was how people shot ladders but I'm always down for learning a new method of finding the optimal charge weight.

I've also read that you can shoot through a series of charges and chrono the speeds. The charge with the least variance is the one closest to your optimal charge and is where you should start further development.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

I have done several ladder tests and they work out sometimes and didn't work at all other times. I think they are an inferior method to finding a node and don't shoot them anymore. The OCW method has been far superior IMO and is faster and cheaper.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-load-recipes/4533485759


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Kinekilla I've never done this before but the second phase I'm doing will concentrate from 44 to 46 grains. I'll be shooting round Robin groups like you said with three shots per group. The first step was to try and quickly narrow down a place to start with. 

I think you may need to shoot more in step one if your abilities or gun aren't consistent. This data was pretty consistant so I think I can trust it. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Toasty I looked at the link and think it would work better for standard calibers and bullet twist rates. If I had a standard caliber I'd certainly go with it. 

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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

It is a method to finding nodes and finding the most accurate load and applies to all cartridges. My link just showed a nodes for common loads, but on the right hand side is all the method including a comparison of OCW vs ladder.

Instructions:
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134

Ladder vs OCW
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-vs-ladder/4529811360


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Ok so the ladder test I did was a flop. 
Started at 44.2 grains and went up to 46 grains in increments of
.2 shooting 3 shot groups
44.2
44.4
44.6 ect
44.2 and 44.4 shot ok maybe an inch at 200 yards. The more powder I used the worse it shot. I had three loaded with 43 grains. Left over so I shot them. It shot under an inch at 200 yards on a hot barrel . So looks like the node is some where close to 43 grains. I'm going to load a few 43.2 in two grain increments to 44 grains see what I get. I'll post a few photos of the progress later when I get some time.

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

200 yards
44.2









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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

44.4









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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

43 and 45.6 imr 7828
You can see more powder didn't work. 
I have 43 thru 44 loaded up now and will test again in the morning. 









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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I love those same rigid targets, great targets

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Likes reloader 19 better 42 grains @ 200 yards off the bipod









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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

44 grains @ 200 yards off my bipod









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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Another at 200 yards with 44 grains of Reloader 19 This one shot off the lead sled.

I think it likes 42 grains better.










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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

The hardest part for me is finding good load data for 105 grain and 8 twist gun. Seems the popular powder is h4350 and I can't find it anywhere. The best thing I've found for load data is 6 mm remington and federal 100 grain bullets. It's close but that gun has a slow twist and I'm shooting 2 inch longer barrel. 

Anyone on here have a pet load for .243 AI they could share

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I think my targets are defective... my holes seem to always be much further apart than yours.


-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Believe me I've had some horrible groups. Some are so bad I can't guarantee they will even hit the target. I have a box of hsm 90 grain bergers that fly like a wiffle ball. I couldn't even hit the target at 200 yards. I use them now for fouling loads. Had a few other loads that open up to about 4 inches at 200. 

I really need a crono. My gun seems to like light loads. Loads equal to 2850 fps on 6 mm remington load data. I really hoped to get more fps. 

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

After ALOT of load dev, I finally found a sub 1 inch group with decent velocity with 100gr partitions in my wife's 243 today. It's still not perfect but good enough for her bookcliffs hunt this fall


-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Makenzies hunt so she zeroed at 200 and then we tested 600 and a 1000 yards checking the phone app for the scope. Makenzies first shot @ 1000 was just high. Second shot hit it dead center. Makenzie ended up shooting 3 out of 5 @ 1000 today on the gong. 







5 days until her hunt can't wait.

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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Looks good scott! Good luck Makenzie! I hope you shoot a really nice goat!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

That guns bigger than she is. What scope is on it? 1000 yard shots are quite impressive


-DallanC


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I am also working on a .243 but it is not the AI version. I'm really wanting to get 100gr. partitions flying well.

This Friday I had fair results using h4831 near hornady book max shooting their 100gr/Interlocks. I'm also getting the 2 close, 1 flyer type groups though. So I'm not yet committed to it. I plan to load 5rd. groups using h4831 and test them for repeated consistency.

I did have good results with IMR4350 at 39.5gr. But couldnt get it to repeat a third time so I've switched powders.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Makenzies hunt so she zeroed at 200 and then we tested 600 and a 1000 yards checking the phone app for the scope. Makenzies first shot @ 1000 was just high. Second shot hit it dead center. Makenzie ended up shooting 3 out of 5 @ 1000 today on the gong.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Man Scott, is there anything your daughters don't shoot well? Good work. Sounds like you new gun is a hummer.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

DallanC said:


> That guns bigger than she is. What scope is on it? 1000 yard shots are quite impressive
> 
> -DallanC


It's a vortex viper 4x16 with turret

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

KineKilla said:


> I am also working on a .243 but it is not the AI version. I'm really wanting to get 100gr. partitions flying well.
> 
> This Friday I had fair results using h4831 near hornady book max shooting their 100gr/Interlocks. I'm also getting the 2 close, 1 flyer type groups though. So I'm not yet committed to it. I plan to load 5rd. groups using h4831 and test them for repeated consistency.
> 
> I did have good results with IMR4350 at 39.5gr. But couldnt get it to repeat a third time so I've switched powders.


Things I've learned in the last 4 days

I can't do anything without taking it to full retard level. I've now shot approximately 250 rounds through this gun. I bought a crono and switched powders again to one of the most popular loads i could find on the internet. Its h4831sc. I did the method toasty posted and combined it with the crono. The crono really helps explain some of the random flyers. I located 2 nodes and went with the slower node. It uses 46.5 grains and averages 3153 fps with a 8 fps difference from the high and low speeds of a five shot group. One thing I've noticed that explains most of my flyers are:

My gun likes a clean bore. It takes about 2 shots two make them consistant then it has a window of about 10 to 15 shots before I get the random flyers. I also clean after 10 shots. Then shoot 2 fouling shots. I keep track of the fouling shots on another target. They seem to group left of my normal groups a half inch or so.

My gun doesn't like heat. If I shoot a shot wait 4 to 5 minutes then shoot again it seems to do better. I try and keep it consistant by using a stop watch.

My gun doesn't like the cartridges in the magazine when working up a load. I think it has something to do with the heat mucking with them and causing pressure spikes. So I single load and keep them away from the gun as much as possible

Even with my 2 pound trigger I still notice I'm pulling my cross hairs to the right a touch before it breaks. I also notice I'm lifting my head a touch anticipating the shot on accations. Need to work on my technique.

I've also noticed if your shooting off a bipod out of the back of the truck, a towel folded a few times seems to help with flyers.

Rear sand bag is a must and if you are adding torque to put the cross hairs on the dot it doesn't work well and the gun kicks funny and causes flyers.

I also bought a caldwell windmeter for the long shots. It takes altitude, average wind speed, barometric pressure and a few other things. Combine this with my phone app and it's pretty deadly.

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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Are you planning to shoot competitively or for hunting with this rifle?

A couple thoughts:

Waiting 4-5 minutes between shots isn't gonna work if you're hunting and need a follow up shot. I hunt with every gun I own but I want to hunt with 0.5-0.75 MOA rifles. I only wait long enough between shots to get the crosshairs back on mark and send a bullet down range.

My rifle also dips as I slowly squeeze the trigger. That's with a rifle basix set to 2lbs or so. I found that just snapping it instead of slowly squeezing reduces the issue. I figure it's due to the synthetic floated stock.

I really want to get a chrono but worry it may undo everything I've already worked so hard to achieve. ie. Ignorance is Bliss.

I'm planning to start cleaning between groups but haven't to this point. Mostly because I already haul 2-3 rifles, a rest, a range bag, etc. each trip and am inherently lazy so adding a cleaning kit to my truck of crap isn't appealing.

I'm following this thread closely though as I work up loads for this .243 so keep me posted. It's funny, I read that 4831 is best for .270's of which I load for 3 and that 4350 is best for .243 but my results have proven to be the opposite so far.

I'm now considering trying RL-19 as well and if I do, there will be some pounds of IMR4831 and H4831 for sale.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I heard some people rave about H1000 as good 243 powder... it was decent accuracy wise but too dang slow (2600fps) at max loads. My wifes 243 seems to be really freaking picky, tried H4831 last week too as some people rave about it. It was slow too. 

If I had RL17 I'd have tried some of that. H414 also grouped lousy.

I tried H4350 using Hodgdons load info but it seemed hot and scattered groups as wide as 3MOA. I noticed Nosler lists a max lower than Hodgdon, using that I found a 1MOA load at 38gr, 2gr under the max Hodgdon load I had worked up to. Still a little slow at 2800fps but a deer or antelope wont know the difference when that partition hits them.

I will probably try 1 more load at 38.5 before calling it good'enough. 

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm only planning on hunting with this rifle. The reason I'm shooting and letting it cool is to take it easy on the barrel. I fully understand in a hunting situation you may need to shoot quicker rounds. Object though is to only take one shot and make it count. So for now I'm practicing on making the shot count and paying attention to my cross hairs as I squeeze the trigger. I'm also paying attention to the ammount of pressure I load my bipod with. 

On a side note
There are some pretty interesting things to read if you do a few searches on standard deviation and bullet groups or standard deviation and cronograph ect. It helped me understand the random flyers or how to interpret my groups better. 







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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

This is the program I'm using for my rifle scope. It seems to be pretty dang good when you input everything correct. I like how I can take a screen shot of my verticle moa and horizontal corrections and print it out. I may put it in one of my old archery arm guards and give it to my daughter. So if she needs to make a shot and my phone doesn't work it won't mess us up to bad. She knows how to adjust the scope if she needs to.

I also sighted the gun to hit 2.5 inches high at a hundred yards. This gives her a maximum point blank range of 300 yards if she aims center mass on a quick shot.

















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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

For her thousand yard shot we had a 3mph wind measured on the wind guage I bought. It's cool watching the vapor trail with 222 inches of drop. The horizontal clicks were also right on.









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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> This is the program I'm using for my rifle scope. It seems to be pretty dang good when you input everything correct. I like how I can take a screen shot of my verticle moa and horizontal corrections and print it out. *I may put it in one of my old archery arm guards and give it to my daughter.* So if she needs to make a shot and my phone doesn't work it won't mess us up to bad. She knows how to adjust the scope if she needs to.
> 
> I also sighted the gun to hit 2.5 inches high at a hundred yards. This gives her a maximum point blank range of 300 yards if she aims center mass on a quick shot.
> 
> ...


 It IS a good idea, electronics have an uncanny ability of not working when you need them to. Try getting her one of the play calling arm bands, they are the TRICK for making quick decisions. Wind on the other hand, well... the shooters Achilles heel.

Good luck on her hunt! Sounds like a pile of fun.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuck

is this the free version of Strelok?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think so but i may have bought it I've had it over a year. If I bought it I doubt I paid more then 15 bucks

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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

The Strelok app has been spot on for me as I've used it the last several years. I had to upgrade to Strelok+ (the paid version) to get my scope reticle, I think I paid like $4 at the time and it was $4 well spent in my opinion.

I have it open on my phone through the whole hunt and just in case my phone fails me I have a laminated copy of the table with all the vertical & horizontal corrections in a quick access pocket in my pack.

I love being able to punch in a distance from my rangefinder then tap the reticle button and I get a quick reference of just how the target (animal) should look in the crosshairs. I don't have a turret scope so I don't mess around with the vertical or horizontal clicks... but having that quick visual of the holdover is nice. 

I also now appreciate the ability to use the phone's camera to factor in uphill or downhill angles, a failure on my part to take that into consideration last year cost me a nice little bull on the general muzzleloader elk hunt... shant happen again.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Sweet- Ill have to give it a try. I notice it has Mildot (USMC) pre programmed in the free version. Having cut my long range teeth on Mils, its a pretty cool find to "see" my holdovers rather than just visualize then work them out in my range log.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I used to have the BDC calculator printed out and taped to my rifle stock. Problem was that I don't have a range finder or chrono so any use of the drop chart was purely assumptive and based on estimated fps data.

I loaded some 100gr. Interlocks over H4831 last night with 5 round charges in 0.2 increments from 42.4-43.0. 

I'm hoping to get back to the range this Friday for the last trip pre-hunt. I have my .270 ADL, the .243 Savage and a friend's .270 Mod.783 to range test.

Funny part is that of those three only the 783 will likely even be used this season.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> I used to have the BDC calculator printed out and taped to my rifle stock. Problem was that I don't have a range finder or chrono so any use of the drop chart was purely assumptive and based on estimated fps data.


You ought to be able to get your MV by shooting at known ranges and using the observed drops with a ballistic calculator to back calculate the velocity. It's a pain in the butt, but I did that before I had a chronograph. Lee Kay goes out to 300; it would be better/more accurate to go farther out, but it's better than a total crap shoot.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Yeah, I entered my estimated data into the hornady site and came up with some drop estimates based off of my impact elevations @ 100yds.

The one I had taped to my .270 was before I started reloading so it's gone. I'm just going to memorize this chart for my 7mm that I'll be using this year.

Again, without a rangefinder it will all be guess work once in the field but I don't really ever shoot past 300 so I should be good enough.

What is the case capacity of your .243 AI now that the shoulder is steeper?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think it holds 5 grains more powder then regular .243


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Kinekilla what gun do you have and what's the twist rate? My remington twist wouldn't shoot hundred grain heaviest I could shoot was 95 grain. The 95 grain always through a couple but had a few touching. 

It shot federal 80 grain the best. It would shoot 10 or so inside an inch until I burned out the throat shooting too fast and too many at a time. Thus the reason I put this new barrel on and another reason I'm taking it easy on it. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I have a vibrating tumbler with corn cob media and I'm a using liquid polisher compound. The outside comes clean the inside has carbon build up and it some times sticks or squeaks when it sizes the inside of the neck. Am I wearing out the neck part of the die not getting the carbon out of the inside of the neck area?

Also the outside and inside of the case has an oily feel and look. When I put the powder into my cartridge it the powder sometimes sticks inside if I need to pour it out. This can't be good for the powder inside. Am I using to much polishing compound? The instructions say 2 to 4 cap fulls and I'm only using 2. Do you empty the corn cob media and put in a fresh dry batch and run it a few minutes to clean up the compound residue?

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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Savage lists this rifle as having a 1:9.25 rate.

Don't know about the oily feel and neck carbon. I only use a sonic cleaner and don't own a tumbler.

I also tried 95gr. Partitions but that was prior to some other changes so I may try them again at some point.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

With the slower twist rate I'd think lighter grain bullet would do better. 

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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> With the slower twist rate I'd think lighter grain bullet would do better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


So 9.25 is considered slower?

I figured that was kind of fast actually. Good to know.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I don't know if I'm correct in my terms or not when saying it's faster or slower just that my 1 in 8 twist spins them faster. So that's why I said yours was a slower twist. I could be wrong. I also think velocity fits in the equation. So if you can load them hotter I think it would help out with the 100 grains. Also flat based bullets shot better out of my .243 for some reason. Boat tail bullets not so well. 

Hopefully someone with a savage .243 chimes in on a good load. They usually shoot pretty good

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Its a hell of alot faster than the 1:14 twist of my 22-250 LOL!

I wonder if this might be the problem my wifes 243 has... 9.125" twist. Too bad 95gr partitions are so hard to find right now. 9ish however should be fine to stabilize a 100gr pill I'd think... /shrug


-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

90 grain bullets out of my .243 ai blow a 3 inch or worse group at a 100 yards lol. I think a few took a right turn half way to the target at 200 yards because they hit ten feet to the left. I don't know if they key holed or came apart. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Springville shooter reccomend trying a box of barns 80 or 85 grains for my .243 those shot pretty good "under an inch" just not as good as the cheap blue box of 80 grain flat base federals. My .243 was very finicky I'd think the savage would be alot better. 

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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Have you done any further testing of your AI? 

I didn't want to hijack.

I'm intrigued to see what you finally find to be the most accurate load in yours. If you can indeed fit 5gr. more in your cases you should be able to get 100g or even 105's screaming out of the barrel.

I shot decent groups today (1") at 42.6g of h4831, but not quite fully satisfied. I've tried all my available powders now throughout their ranges and still don't feel I've found "the one". I may try the SC variant of 4831 under partitions after the hunt, or I may find some RL-17 to try out. Sure wish they made a 100g Accubond.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I've been working out of town so I haven't done any more load development. I think I'm honing in on a node some where between 46.5 and 46.8 grains. 
I'm going to try another test with five 
46.5
46.6
46.7
46.8
I'm going to clean my gun for each set and shoot two fouling rounds per round and see which load is better. After I find out which one is better I may mess with bullet seating depths. 

Since Ive reloaded my brass about five times I think I need to start over with new brass. Reason is my brass is getting a carbon ring arround my neck and shoulder. This was either from shooting two light of loads and not getting a good seal or its from work hardning my brass from shooting, sizing, tumbling, ect and not anealing it. It is also showing signs of not being square. I could trim it but the last batch the primers went in easier then normal.

I may be taking everything to the extreme but this is how I learn. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

As for speed with the 105s. This is a five shot string with 47.5 grains.
3212
3212
3197
3197
3244
It shot a horizontal line about a half inch long with one high shot throwing the group to about an inch. I think it's about max on that powder because the speed didn't change much from my 47.2 grain test
3205
3212
3197
3189
3205 it also shot a horizontal line but was an inch in size.

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

My 46.5 load shot 4 out of six in the same hole including the fouling shot. The second two made it a 3/4 inch group. It didn't reccord one of the shots for some reason.
3152
3167
3144
3152

My 46.8 shot the best over the crono and had a half inch group. 
3167
3167
3167
3152
3159

I think if I can get the bullet to exit at the exact same time as the frequency node it will fix the flyers. This video explains what I'm talking about






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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I've read articles about the frequency and harmonics before but I'm not sure that it can ever be perfectly timed every time. 

It seems like powders, bullets, primers, etc. all have some amount of variance to them which makes it nearly impossible or at least unreasonable to get everything exactly the same every shot.

I drive my self insane during case prep fighting with trim lengths, pocket tension, etc. Then I get to the powder and seating and again drive myself insane trying to get every load perfect. Measuring OAL and Length to Ogive both drive me crazy because the bullets are not all the same or necks aren't perfectly concentric, etc.

I found that when you finally find the recipe that shoots consistently good in your rifle, the little variances (I emphasize LITTLE) just don't make that much of a difference.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

This is Makenzie's three shot group at a 100 yards. We made the scope adjustment and are headed out for her hunt. I think an antelope is in trouble.

Looks like the load is pretty good








loo

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

My group including the fouling round was just over half inch 5 shot group. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

The hunt for stickers is on. This buck has about 3 or 4 extra points on each side. Not real tall but a nice buck. We've seen a really tall buck and a really nice buck today but we like the extras this one has.

Any guesses on the score?































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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Pronghorn IMO are one of the hardest critters to field judge... extremely deceptive. We judged a buck once based off what we estimated were 7" ears, wife shot it... got up to it, it had 5.5" ears. :shock: I've rarely guessed a size right in the field on these silly things. Anymore I just go by first instinct, if it looks "cool" or looks "big" at first glance, *boom*.

Last year my wife almost passed on a loner buck I thought was "pretty good", she was wish-washy on it... but eventually decided to take it. While it didnt look like a monster through the spotting scope, when we walked up to it we saw it had a HUGE body and head, which made the horns look smaller. It ended up being her largest goat to date and we had almost passed it up.

That said, I have a buck pronghorn tag burning a hole in my pocket right now... I'd shoot the one above without a second thought.

For your daughter, let her decide what she wants to shoot and be happy for her when she gets it. Dont wear her out dragging her all over creation trying to find "the one", plenty of years to come down the road for score chasing.

-DallanC


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

She wants this one regardless of the score. We've seen over 50 bucks scouting this unit. So we have a good idea on shoot or pass bucks.

We have seen one I think that will score better but looks wounded. Saw a really tall one that has dang close to as much mass as this one. We are just finding them and having back up plans because another gentleman is hunting stickers. 

My girls like this type of hunting. No hiking, lots of treats and AC vehicle. 

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

My guess is it will go 76"

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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

No guess on the score. Have your girl shoot it, and let us know!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

We are on stickers 297 yards away. Cant get any closer. He's bedded and we have a dead rest with rear sand bag. Matter of minutes hopfully

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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Now that's a unique buck! That alone makes it one heck of a trophy. I'd love to see some close up pictures of that...with your daughter sitting behind it. Good luck.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Lucky for us you will get a chance. I'm going to start a different thread though. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Super Awesome! With the way she was shooting, I'm sure it won't be long, if it hasn't already happened!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> *Lucky for us you will get a chance.* I'm going to start a different thread though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Lemme be the first to say Congratulations!

-DallanC


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Lucky for us you will get a chance. I'm going to start a different thread though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Well, where is it?? It's been 30 minutes already. 

No really, looking forward to seeing her success.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

Man, I know you're waiting so you can write up the story and all, but the suspense is killing me! Anyway, congratulations to her!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

This write up has to cover two kids. Both my kids had LE mentor tags. One archery mule deer buck with a bow and this antelope tag. I need to get the photos of lindsays archery buck from my father in laws tablet. It's been a good year for us. I owe a lot to several different people. I actually get teared up thinking about it. 

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm having a hard time figuring out which is the bigger accomplishment... Mule Deer buck with a bow, or a 300 yard shot from a girl who is smaller than her rifle.

Both are extremely impressive for youngsters.


-DallanC


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