# Bird Dogs versus Hound dogs



## coyoteslayer

Which dog do you think works harder for his master? Hounds run for miles up and down deep canyons and they keep mountain lions and bears at bay. Bird dogs run up and down fields and find birds. Most hunters hunt on bird farms where it is easy for their dogs to find dumb pen raised birds. Hounds sometimes get killed by doing their duty. When is the last time a pheasant killed a bird dog? I believe hounds have a lot more stamina because they can go the distant whereas a bird dog doesnt run near as far or in as rugged places as a hound dog.

People talk about their bird dogs having tender feet. A hound needs tough feet in order to get the job done.

A lot more training is involved with hound dogs and you really have to trust the dogs when their 3 to 20 miles away because they should still be tracking that bear or lion. Hounds need a better nose and a bird dog.

With a bird dog then you can take a mediocre dog and you can still find a lot of birds. Mediocre hounds hardly ever tree lions and bears for you.


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## redleg

I always hunt with pointers, but my son had a bear tag a few years ago. The hounds really impressed me. 8)


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## TEX-O-BOB

> I believe hounds have a lot more stamina because they can go the distant whereas a bird dog doesnt run near as far or in as rugged places as a hound dog.


You obviously haven't hunted chukars behind an EP or a Field bred Shorthair.

Tough feet, that all depends on what you keep your dogs on when they're not hunting. Mine are on gravel and they NEVER get soar feet.

A mediocre bird dog might find birds at a game farm, but take that dog out to Kansas in late December and he will get his asss handed to him.

Each dog is bred for a specific thing and most will do one thing well. Hounds chase fur, bird dogs chase birds. If you want a dog that will do both very well, get you a DD bred German Wirehaired Pointer. In fact, I know a guy in southern Utah that runs all Wirehaires on lions and does very well. The difference is, a Wirehair is smart enough to know when to back off and not get eaten by a lion, hounds are dumb, that's why they always get chewed up.

//dog// //dog// //dog// //dog// //dog// //dog// //dog// //dog// //dog// //dog//


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## Texscala

I have always been impressed by hounds but after chasing chukar this year with my 8 month old French Britt it is very clear you have never been on a real chukar hunt. My pup has a long way to go still but she has never been to a bird farm and she has had 50 plus wild birds killed over her this season. 

My dog's feet are still young like she is and they got cut up pretty on a couple of cold hunts. There were several occasions where you could follow her bloody trails yet she refused to stop hunting.

Aslo you know a lot of guys have big running dogs with GPS locators as they hunt chukar. The dog could be a mile away and has the ability to stay still until his master shows up to take the birds out. 

I am still impressed by hounds but you might want to go watch the dogs that do hunt wild birds before you talk badly about them. One of my 3/4 hunting days involved me hiking 13 miles. I am sure my dog put down 30.


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## Duurty1

o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-||


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## coyoteslayer

> I have always been impressed by hounds but after chasing chukar this year with my 8 month old French Britt it is very clear you have never been on a real chukar hunt. My pup has a long way to go still but she has never been to a bird farm and she has had 50 plus wild birds killed over her this season.


Hahahaha. Yeah those chukars live in rugged places.

Yes, I have been chukar hunting in rugged places and yes been there done that. Its obvious that you havent done much lion or bear hunting right? I have hunted Chukars out on the desert near the deep creeks out by Calio and I have to tell you chasing lions and bears I covered 10 times more ground.


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## coyoteslayer

Chukars are easy to find if you have a water source because they only live in certain parts. Chukars dont have a large territory like a lion or a bear. 

Typical Bird hunters thinking chukars are so hard to find. The also plant a lot of dumb chukars.


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## coyoteslayer

> Each dog is bred for a specific thing and most will do one thing well. Hounds chase fur, bird dogs chase birds. If you want a dog that will do both very well, get you a DD bred German Wirehaired Pointer. In fact, I know a guy in southern Utah that runs all Wirehaires on lions and does very well. The difference is, a Wirehair is smart enough to know when to back off and not get eaten by a lion, hounds are dumb, that's why they always get chewed up.


Hounds aren't stupid as you claim. I had a lot of smart hounds that would circle around the lion and bit him on the butt. I took a guy lion hunting once because he thought his wirehair would do really good. Well lets just say that we had to take the dog to the vet to get 50 stitches. I never had to take one dog to the vet and I had hounds for over a decade.

I ran treeing Walkers and they are some of the smartest dogs that you will ever find. Wirehair pointers dont have a cold nose like walker or a red bone.


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## Texscala

I have not ben a Lion or Bear hunt but will be going on one this year. I have stumbled across 2 lion hunting parties while out hiking and in both cases the dogs were left behind and the hunters drove to an easier access point and killed the animal less than 2 miles from a paved road. 

Again I like and respect Hounds and think they are amazing. What I don't agree with is your opinion on Bird dogs. They run hard and some very hard. Chukars can be easy to find when they are locked down on a water source but what happens when the snow comes in and they can go where ever they want? That is when most guys start hunting then anyway

My question to you is how many miles do you put down (on your own feet not on a wheeler or in your truck) on a normal hunt chasing Lions or Bears? I know my average day chasing birds consists of a 1/2 day and just under 10 miles. I plan on doing full day hunts next year and have no doubt that I will put dow a few 20 mile days especially in Late August when the Ptarmigan hunt opens. By then my dog and I will be in tip top shape and the birds are going to get it.

What hunts do you have planned for this year?


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## coyoteslayer

I always went on foot from the time I turned the dogs loose until the dogs caught the lion or bear. A male lion will run anywhere between 10 to 20 miles on any given day. If you are walking 10 to 20 miles hunting chukars then either you dont know where to find chukars or you dont have a great dog to locate a lot of birds that you have missed in that 10 mile hike. When you find a covey then they only fly several hundred yds and then they will land again.

BTW you arent hunting chukars in 2 to 4 feet of snow like you do a Mountain lion. A lot of overweight and older guys hunt birds, but you dont see a lot of overweight houndmen.


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## coyoteslayer

> I have not ben a Lion or Bear hunt but will be going on one this year. I have stumbled across 2 lion hunting parties while out hiking and in both cases the dogs were left behind and the hunters drove to an easier access point and killed the animal less than 2 miles from a paved road.


So you have been on a few hunts. Maybe you need to go on 10 to 20 more hunts before you are qualified to talk about this subject.


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## TEX-O-BOB

My Wirehairs are self training. They don't need human intervention to be good bird dogs. Plus, ONE Wirehair can take down a lion or medium size bear all by themselves. AND, they can babysit kids and do my taxes too! Can your hounds do any of that?


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## coyoteslayer

> My Wirehairs are self training. They don't need human intervention to be good bird dogs. Plus, ONE Wirehair can take down a lion or medium size bear all by themselves. AND, they can babysit kids and do my taxes too! Can your hounds do any of that?


Tex, you have posted a lot of stupid posts on this forum, but this one wins the award for flat out stupidity. I would love to see this. A medium size bear would think your dog was just another glazed donut in the bait bucket. Hounds are self trained because its all instinct.

Let me guess your dog wears a cape too. SuperDog hahaha. Come on Darin dont be so stupid. Well its probably to early in the morning for you to be playing with the full deck. You still need your coffee and your cancer sticks.

Darin, your dog can probably jump the highest, fart the loudest, and run the fastest out of every dog known to man.

Most birds dogs wouldn't even stand the chance with any bear or lion unless we are talking about cubs or kittens.


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## coyoteslayer

BTW Darin, the Wirehair that a friend of my mine took on a lion hunt with me needed 50 stitches from a 2 year old male. He thought his dog could do anything just like you do, but he doesnt think that anymore. The lion almost killed that dog before we got him out of the cave.


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## TEX-O-BOB

Ya know Coyote, I *was* treating this like any other stupid topic on a stupid subject at first cuz I thought there was no way you could be serious about comparing bird dogs to hounds. I mean that's like comparing Ice cream to mayonnaise... :roll:

Non the less, listening to you babble on about any one particular subject like you're the local authority is pretty entertaining to say the least. Even though you usually talk out of your ass or pound something down our throats that Pro said 16 posts ago.

I was having fun with this until you got mean. Now I'm taking my little weak, non fur huntin, no cold nose havin, poor bird hunting, no natural ability havin, sh*t eatin Wirehair and going home!

-BaHa!- *\-\* -BaHa!- *\-\*


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## coyoteslayer

Is that the best post you can come up with. I will give you another chance. The whole reason I started this post is because I knew it would get your panties in a wad and you would be talking about your superdog farting the loudest and running the fastest and its the mean and toughest.

Thanks for the entertainment :lol: :lol: :lol: Now go kiss your bearded dog in the brown eye.


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## bowhunter3

Coyoteslayer you are one funny guys :| sure glad I get to read posts from you, I don't know what I would do with my self if I didn't get to read some of the nice things you have to say. I think your name should be repeat :lol: You have got to be the coolest and best hunter on this forum, no one can come close to what you can do or have done right :wink:


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## bowhunter3

I would think that Tex is a well respected individual on this forum, and for you to just post stupid stuff just to rile him up. That says a lot about your character. How old are you by the way


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## Kirklan

Who the hell cares about hounds vs. bird dogs. What makes a good hound does not necessarily make a good bird dog and visa versa. They each have their own qualities that make them ideal for the job they were bred to do. Throw your precious hound in the pit with a pit bull, boxer, doberman,rottweiler and the result would probably be the same as you friends wirehair in the bear cave, the hound would loose. Doesn't make the hound any less of hunting dog. :wink:


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## coyoteslayer

hahaha I would like to see a big old boar against a bulldog :lol: :lol: That bulldog would become the next hotdog. Oh Please TEX isnt a very respected person. I have seen him ripe into people who are against his mighty all purpose wirehair and that is even good enough to wiping your backside with.


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## TEX-O-BOB

> The whole reason I started this post is because I knew it would get your panties in a wad


Wow! I guess I should feel special that you went to that much trouble just to pizz me off...

And what made you want to cut me out of the herd and direct mean spirited abuse toward today? Were you bored, or just feeling nasty.

Thank you Coyote.


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## coyoteslayer

Oh its because I have heard all this pure BS for months on the old forum and the new forum about how much better the wirehaired pointer is and I know this is a very sensitive topic for you from a lot of your posts.


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## Kirklan

coyoteslayer said:


> hahaha I would like to see a big old boar against a bulldog


My point exactly! A bull dog would have as much of a chance of running with a hound as hound would have fighting in the pit with the bull dog. You comparisons are pointless and obviously intended just to start trouble.


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## deadicatedweim

Kirklan said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> hahaha I would like to see a big old boar against a bulldog
> 
> 
> 
> My point exactly! A bull dog would have as much of a chance of running with a hound as hound would have fighting in the pit with the bull dog. You comparisons are pointless and obviously intended just to start trouble.
Click to expand...

Ditto that! 
Coyoteslayer is comparing apples to oranges. I would like to see your hounds duck hunt and do some blind retrieves in a swamp or icy river or bust 12 foot caittails for 12 hours straight on a pheasant hunt. All dogs have got the instinct to chase kitty cats big deal! And if your friend was so ****y to send a single dog into a cave with a cat then he doesn't deserve his dog.


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## TEX-O-BOB

coyoteslayer said:


> Oh its because I have heard all this pure BS for months on the old forum and the new forum about how much better the wirehaired pointer is and I know this is a very sensitive topic for you from a lot of your posts.


Truth is buddy, I love all dogs. Come over some time I'll introduce you to my pack. I have an English Setter, a Jack Russel Terrier, and yes, two GWP's I think the GWP is the best dog for me. Might not be for you or someone else, but that doesn't mean we can't all engage in a little friendly smack talk about each others breed choices. Hell, it's all good. I thought that was what you were doing with this post, just some friendly banter, but I can see now you had other motives. Shame on you. I might be passionate about my dogs and talk smak of others at times but I never do it in a mean hurtful way. And if I ever came across that way, I apologize.

Go start another elk thread if you want to stir the pot.


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## coyoteslayer

Ok I was told that i have to be nice


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## Red-Grouse

coyoteslayer said:


> Which dog do you think works harder for his master? Hounds run for miles up and down deep canyons and they keep mountain lions and bears at bay. Bird dogs run up and down fields and find birds. Most hunters hunt on bird farms where it is easy for their dogs to find dumb pen raised birds. Hounds sometimes get killed by doing their duty. When is the last time a pheasant killed a bird dog? I believe hounds have a lot more stamina because they can go the distant whereas a bird dog doesnt run near as far or in as rugged places as a hound dog.
> 
> People talk about their bird dogs having tender feet. A hound needs tough feet in order to get the job done.
> 
> A lot more training is involved with hound dogs and you really have to trust the dogs when their 3 to 20 miles away because they should still be tracking that bear or lion. Hounds need a better nose and a bird dog.
> 
> With a bird dog then you can take a mediocre dog and you can still find a lot of birds. Mediocre hounds hardly ever tree lions and bears for you.


I don't come here often, usually just to see how ridiculous the posts are in the big game forum :? Coyoteslayer I bet your hounds that live under the porch of your trailer house are the best dadgum doogies in the whole world!! :?


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## coyoteslayer

> Coyoteslayer I bet your hounds that live under the porch of your trailer house are the best dadgum doogies in the whole world!!


Can you find anywhere where i really bragged about my dogs? Tex-0-bob dogs are the best dogs on the planet.


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## coyoteslayer

> Coyoteslayer is comparing apples to oranges. I would like to see your hounds duck hunt and do some blind retrieves in a swamp or icy river or bust 12 foot caittails for 12 hours straight on a pheasant hunt. All dogs have got the instinct to chase kitty cats big deal! And if your friend was so ****y to send a single dog into a cave with a cat then he doesn't deserve his dog.


I just was asking which dog works harder and from all the posts then i believe the hounds work harder and they also make you more money which I might add. I have chased ***** in icy rivers with cattails and back again and BTW its colder at night. Is that what makes a dog great is the fact they can swim in cold water?



> All dogs have got the instinct to chase kitty cats big deal!


 It is a big deal you are right. Its a $3500 dollar deal. I glad you understand that part.


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## Ironman

Man you guys have strayed sooooo far from the true versatile....the well bred Lab! :mrgreen: 
They do anything your dogs can do, only better. Bird hunt, you got it, upland...sure, waterfowl...easy, tracking abilities...keen. Hunt Bear or Cougar...yep. Okay, so they don't go running mad and tree 'em, all you have to do is turn one loose in Lion or Bear country, they track the beast, the beast turns on the Lab and chases it, the lab runs scared as Heck back to you and bang, you've got your Lion or Bear. _(O)_ :lol: None of the blasted hiking for 20..... or was it 200 miles, I forget! :wink: 
The best part...after all the tracking, chasing, cussing, and killing...if the beast didn't get him, the Lab is good enough to snuggle up to your 2 year old kid and fall asleep at night when you get home. 
I couldn't let a "my dog is better than yours" argument go on without adding the Lab! *(u)*


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## coyoteslayer

Yes the Lab is a very smart dog  and probably has the best nose out of all the bird dogs.


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## TEX-O-BOB

> Tex-0-bob dogs are the best dogs on the planet.


You said it not me! :shock:

I'm glad you're finally coming around and seeing things my way. :twisted:


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## bowhunter3

coyoteslayer said:


> Yes the Lab is a very smart dog  and probably has the best nose out of all the bird dogs.


My Weim runs circles around my Lab. His nose is unbelievable. Just killed a prairy dog last night, tracked it and found it under 2 feet of snow. Love them both but I think hunting wise my weim is by far better than my lab. And since he is 115 pounds of muscle, I would think he would do just fine chasing a lion around if needed.


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## TEX-O-BOB

> And since he is 115 pounds of muscle


 :shock: 8)


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## bowhunter3

TEX-O-BOB said:


> And since he is 115 pounds of muscle
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: 8)
Click to expand...

Just got him weighed. He is actually 112.4 or something like that, but sounds better to round up. He is a big boy, and not an ounce of fat on him. Tex he has turned out to be the best dog I have ever owned. Glad I kept him. Very protective of the family, my wife loves that about him.


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## bwhntr

Are you serious? Talk about apples and oranges, there is no intelligent way to compare a hound to a bird dog. What breed of bird dog, there are many! If you want to compare endurance, I am sure the most hounds run great. I would be willing to bet most EP's are tough enough to run just as hard or harder.


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## TEX-O-BOB

bowhunter3 said:


> TEX-O-BOB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And since he is 115 pounds of muscle
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: 8)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just got him weighed. He is actually 112.4 or something like that, but sounds better to round up. He is a big boy, and not an ounce of fat on him. Tex he has turned out to be the best dog I have ever owned. Glad I kept him. Very protective of the family, my wife loves that about him.
Click to expand...

That has to be the biggest Weim on the planet! I did not know they got that big. :shock: 
I'm glad he worked out for you and I hope you took all my smack talk on previous posts with a grain of salt. 

I likes to talk the smack!  :twisted:


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## bowhunter3

> [quote:ujz81n7y]


That has to be the biggest Weim on the planet! I did not know they got that big. :shock: 
I'm glad he worked out for you and I hope you took all my smack talk on previous posts with a grain of salt. 

I likes to talk the smack!  :twisted:[/quote:ujz81n7y][/quote][/quote]

Didn't bother me one bit bud. I can dish it out and take it. I am a pretty laid back easy going guy, so nothing really bothers me, except coyoteslayer :mrgreen: I talked to the vet and he said that male weims are usually between 85-95 but he has seen a few bigger ones like mine. Did you see the picts I posted, he is a big boy, and it isnt just his size it is his muscles that are impressive, the pictures really didn't do him any justice.


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## bowhunter3

TEX-O-BOB said:


> And since he is 115 pounds of muscle
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: 8)
Click to expand...

Forgot to add that when he stands on his back legs he is as tall as I am. His head comes even with mine. I am 6'2" so I think he gets a lot of his weight from his abnormal height. He seriously dworfs my lab who isn't small either he is around 85 pounds.


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## .45

My lab is 125lbs....my wolfs are 187lbs. each !! :evil: 

If coyoteslayer don't knock it off, I will sic them on him... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## bowhunter3

.45 said:


> My lab is 125lbs....my wolfs are 187lbs. each !! :evil:
> 
> If coyoteslayer don't knock it off, I will sic them on him... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


My buddy has a lab that is the size of a mastiff, the darn thing is huge. Last time they weighed it was around 130 its a beast if I ever saw one.


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## .45

My lab is as tall as a mastif...but wide....

Ironman describes a lab very well...


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## Duurty1

my lab weighs in at 53 pounds and that is big enough to retrieve geese oh and i don't have to feed her 20 pounds of food a day


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## Nibble Nuts

coyoteslayer said:


> hahaha I would like to see a big old boar against a bulldog :lol: :lol: That bulldog would become the next hotdog. Oh Please TEX isnt a very respected person. I have seen him ripe into people who are against his mighty all purpose wirehair and that is even good enough to wiping your backside with.


coyoteslayer, you are one bitter cripple. I think the sores from your wheelchair are getting to you. Have you ever seen the difference in hounds compared to an American Bulldog when chasing hogs? The Bulldog has the balls and the strength to hold onto that boar while the hound usually keeps its distance. Also if you want to compare apples and oranges, I gaurantee my pit will endure more for me than any hound you can dream of. I also know my pit would eat any of your hounds for lunch the second they step to her. However this is a stupid comparison because they are different types of dogs for different purposes and I don't condone dog fighting. That is how stupid your thread is. I feel bad for you to a point because your a cripple, but you sure have a mouth on you. I can tell you have issues that make you need to act like a jr high boy.
Oh, by the way, remember that thread you started about hunters wearing orange? Well I had access to the moderator panel somehow when this was going on, and I noticed you had pussed out on the thread you created and asked for the mods to remove it. Grow some balls and man up to your sh-t.


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## InvaderZim

Nibble Nuts said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> hahaha I would like to see a big old boar against a bulldog :lol: :lol: That bulldog would become the next hotdog. Oh Please TEX isnt a very respected person. I have seen him ripe into people who are against his mighty all purpose wirehair and that is even good enough to wiping your backside with.
> 
> 
> 
> coyoteslayer, you are one bitter cripple. I think the sores from your wheelchair are getting to you. Have you ever seen the difference in hounds compared to an American Bulldog when chasing hogs? The Bulldog has the balls and the strength to hold onto that boar while the hound usually keeps its distance. Also if you want to compare apples and oranges, I gaurantee my pit will endure more for me than any hound you can dream of. I also know my pit would eat any of your hounds for lunch the second they step to her. However this is a stupid comparison because they are different types of dogs for different purposes and I don't condone dog fighting. That is how stupid your thread is. I feel bad for you to a point because your a cripple, but you sure have a mouth on you. I can tell you have issues that make you need to act like a jr high boy.
> Oh, by the way, remember that thread you started about hunters wearing orange? Well I had access to the moderator panel somehow when this was going on, and I noticed you had pussed out on the thread you created and asked for the mods to remove it. Grow some balls and man up to your sh-t.
Click to expand...

NOW thats some funny Schit right there! :lol:

:rotfl:


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## bowhunter3

yeah, I think a few people probably have wanted to say that.


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## RuttCrazed

coyoteslayer said:


> Ok I was told that i have to be nice


**** shame nobody said you had to be intelligent! :roll:

Rut


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## coyoteslayer

I can see I got the bird dog hunters riled up a bit. So many great insults have been said and even from little nibble nuts wow. I have seen bull dogs and hogs before. I was talking about bird dogs and hounds and which dog works the hardest. Hounds dont live very long because of the type of life they live. I have seen a plott eat a bulldog so what is your point?

Dude nibble nuts, I'm not crippled I have been able to walk a half a mile on a thread mill. I'm not a little coward like you that cries about all the little things that goes wrong with your little miserable life. So I getting back on my feet. If you were in my situation you would probably stay in your room all day and cry to your momma. You would probably quit and give up on life.

You man up and grow some balls instead of nibbling on your "friends" nuts.



> I gaurantee my pit will endure more for me than any hound you can dream of


I hope this doesn't also involve your username.


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## 12 Volt Man

coyoteslayer said:


> I have seen a plott eat a bulldog so what is your point?


Why would you watch or allow such a thing?


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## coyoteslayer

> The Bulldog has the balls and the strength to hold onto that boar while the hound usually keeps its distance


The bulldogs also wear leather jackets to help protect them from a wild boar. Hounds also grab the boars and they hold them down. I have seen this done before also.


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## RuttCrazed

coyoteslayer said:


> Dude nibble nuts, I'm not crippled I have been able to walk a half a mile on a thread mill.


That sounds pretty encouraging, keep at it!

Rut


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## Nibble Nuts

coyoteslayer said:


> Dude nibble nuts, I'm not crippled I have been able to walk a half a mile on a thread mill.


Good for you on that. Beyond that I think I won't waste anymore of my time.


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## TAK

coyoteslayer said:


> I can see I got the bird dog hunters riled up a bit.
> 
> Not really.... But I do find it odd that you would compair a big game hound to a bird dog? What gives? I think if a BD had to go mile after mile in search of the birds they could do that and some more. I really see no point in hashing out the Stamina part of the two dogs, but will add that the Mushers have been breeding the Pointers and GSP's into the Huskey for that very reason!!!! Research it!
> What your doing is putting a BD against a Hound in a Hounds game. My money is on the Hound!
> But I think if you looked beyond yourself you would find that there are some serious BD out there that would open your eyes on some of the distances they cover after birds.
> Ya want to break this down more? Well a hound is on game and is tracking and scenting the game as it follows it! Right? Well that hound is not actully going 10 mile searching to find that scent, you already put that Hound on a track, right? Well a BD is searching on the fly(Feet on the Ground) to find the birds. A hound is in a box until you find that track or you have one rig from the truck... Or are you just wondering around in the hills hoping to have a dog hit a track? If ya are... try going out after a fresh snow, look for a track that maybe crossed the road. See if one of ur hounds will start it and go from there.


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## coyoteslayer

> Ya want to break this down more? Well a hound is on game and is tracking and scenting the game as it follows it! Right? Well that hound is not actully going 10 mile searching to find that scent, you already put that Hound on a track, right? Well a BD is searching on the fly(Feet on the Ground) to find the birds. A hound is in a box until you find that track or you have one rig from the truck... Or are you just wondering around in the hills hoping to have a dog hit a track? If ya are... try going out after a fresh snow, look for a track that maybe crossed the road. See if one of ur hounds will start it and go from there


.

I have turned them loose and we hiked up a canyon and the dogs cut a track after they were turned loose. I have caught many of lions on dry ground from just turning them loose and they cut a track.

What do you think happens when hounds chase ***** through swamp, river bottoms etc?


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## TAK

coyoteslayer said:


> Ya want to break this down more? Well a hound is on game and is tracking and scenting the game as it follows it! Right? Well that hound is not actully going 10 mile searching to find that scent, you already put that Hound on a track, right? Well a BD is searching on the fly(Feet on the Ground) to find the birds. A hound is in a box until you find that track or you have one rig from the truck... Or are you just wondering around in the hills hoping to have a dog hit a track? If ya are... try going out after a fresh snow, look for a track that maybe crossed the road. See if one of ur hounds will start it and go from there
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I have turned them loose and we hiked up a canyon and the dogs cut a track after they were turned loose. I have caught many of lions on dry ground from just turning them loose and they cut a track.
> 
> What do you think happens when hounds chase ***** through swamp, river bottoms etc?
Click to expand...

Are you Serious!!!! You want me to buy into this!!!


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## coyoteslayer

> Are you Serious!!!! You want me to buy into this!!!


Are you for real? You act like this is impossible or maybe you just dont know about hunting with hounds.


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## TAK

OK I will bite.... I don't think it is not possible that you take the dogs up a canyon and they strike a track. BUT!!!! While they are searching for that Track or Scent they are nose to the ground maybe a SHORT distance from you. I am sure you have them programed to hit the dirt and put the nose to the ground and find that scent? Right?
But the VAST lion hunting I have done, 1 time I think maybe 2! We drove around and found a track. Pulled one dog, most likely the best dog and see if they will follow it out. If the dog goes down the track and tell the houndman that they have scent you start releasing more. Right?
Plus each dog had a tracking collar on to tell us the location. We was lucky that they crossed the road another 18 billion times before we went to the tree maybe... Maybe a mile off the road! I know not all tree's are that close, but from the point of starting it to the end was hours and lots of miles. I will give you that but coach you up a bit and tell you to get a map so you don't have to walk all that way to the tree!

Been huntin ***** a few times with different houndman. The first was driving around with a couple of dogs in the back. One was on the box and when he or she started barking we let it go and listened for it to start baying. Then we let a pup go and he went to the river bank. A short fight and it was over.
The next time was cut a couple of dogs loose and walk the river bottoms. When you heard the dogs you went to the tree. We just went to an area that was rich with ****.

So yet again this does not show that a hound has more endurance than a BD? Matter of fact I have a GSP here that is Hell on *****! Not my choice and I would just as soon he leave them alone, but he likes to eat the tails!
Next!


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## TAK

No, I am not calining I know much about hounds! Just showing you you don't know much about dogs on a whole! You have already paired two hunting dogs up that hunt different game. I will not ever attempt to say my dogs would do what a Hound does on Big Game, as I would say a hound can not do on birds as a bird dog! But I will say that BD will have the same if not better endurance! 
Think about it... When ur hounds are on a track they are within lets say ten feet one ya or another to the tree, Right? Lets say you go in 15 miles to that tree, so that dog did 15 miles give or take a few feet!
A BD hunting that distance is not straight lined, it is up the hill down the wash to the left to the right, over the creek, over the hedge, back to ya, then another cast, over there, over here... and pretty much it is at full tilt! Think about it? Am I wrong?


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## coyoteslayer

> OK I will bite.... I don't think it is not possible that you take the dogs up a canyon and they strike a track. BUT!!!! While they are searching for that Track or Scent they are nose to the ground maybe a SHORT distance from you. I am sure you have them programed to hit the dirt and put the nose to the ground and find that scent? Right?
> But the VAST lion hunting I have done, 1 time I think maybe 2! We drove around and found a track. Pulled one dog, most likely the best dog and see if they will follow it out. If the dog goes down the track and tell the houndman that they have scent you start releasing more. Right?
> Plus each dog had a tracking collar on to tell us the location. We was lucky that they crossed the road another 18 billion times before we went to the tree maybe... Maybe a mile off the road! I know not all tree's are that close, but from the point of starting it to the end was hours and lots of miles. I will give you that but coach you up a bit and tell you to get a map so you don't have to walk all that way to the tree!
> 
> Been huntin ***** a few times with different houndman. The first was driving around with a couple of dogs in the back. One was on the box and when he or she started barking we let it go and listened for it to start baying. Then we let a pup go and he went to the river bank. A short fight and it was over.
> The next time was cut a couple of dogs loose and walk the river bottoms. When you heard the dogs you went to the tree. We just went to an area that was rich with ****.
> 
> So yet again this does not show that a hound has more endurance than a BD? Matter of fact I have a GSP here that is Hell on *****! Not my choice and I would just as soon he leave them alone, but he likes to eat the tails!
> Next!


You must hunt a lot different than I do with your hounds


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## coyoteslayer

> Think about it... When ur hounds are on a track they are within lets say ten feet one ya or another to the tree, Right? Lets say you go in 15 miles to that tree, so that dog did 15 miles give or take a few feet!
> A BD hunting that distance is not straight lined, it is up the hill down the wash to the left to the right, over the creek, over the hedge, back to ya, then another cast, over there, over here... and pretty much it is at full tilt! Think about it? Am I wrong?


Yes you are flat out wrong. A lion or a bear with go up and down canyons around in circles. They will go up in the cliffs because before they even know they are being chased they are looking for food and during the night they could have walk 5 miles or so. Hounds will run farther in a day than a bird dog and they run through deep snow in the winter time. I turn the dogs loose and they are gone and its true and I have a tracking collar on them so that I can find them because as soon as I turn them loose and they head over the top of the mountain then you have no idea where that lion or bear is going to take them.

It sounds like you are very very very new to hunting with hounds.


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## TAK

And where did you read I have hounds? I will have you know I have all my teeth and don't talk with a split tongue! 

Well it was fun while it lasted but I can see you have some thick blinders on.... Did ya look up the breeding E-Pointers and German Shorthaired Pointers into the sled dogs... Maybe it is for the thick coat they both have!

And I am now pisseed!!! I have never had anyone on any forum accuse me I had hounds!!!! Never.......


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## coyoteslayer

> And where did you read I have hounds? I will have you know I have all my teeth and don't talk with a split tongue!
> 
> Well it was fun while it lasted but I can see you have some thick blinders on.... Did ya look up the breeding E-Pointers and German Shorthaired Pointers into the sled dogs... Maybe it is for the thick coat they both have!
> 
> And I am now ****!!! I have never had anyone on any forum accuse me I had hounds!!!! Never.......


Then why are you talking like you know all about the subject??? You just confirmed to me that you really have no idea what you are saying.


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## Ironman

Alright, let's settle this so this dumb thread can die. :evil: 

Tak and his pointer, coyoteslayer and his hound, and me and my Lab will have a contest to prove once and for all which breed is the best. 
We'll strap a Chukar to a Cougar’s tail and release it a day before the big event a good 45 miles out of its home range. The cat and bird will leave plenty of scent so all the breeds can follow. Then, the following day we will release all the mutts. 
//dog// //dog// //dog//
I’ll save everyone the wait, the results of such a “hunt” are obvious! _(O)_ 
After a good 14 hours on the trail, the hound and pointer catch up to the big cat. The hound goes in; the cat is then treed in an old Juniper. The now exhausted hound suddenly dies of heart failure after having run the 45 miles and treeing the cat, getting mauled in the process no doubt. The pointer is of course standing there pointing at the tree and what little is left of the Chukar on the cats tail as it dangles in front of the pointer like bait. Eventually (a few hours), the pointer gives in and rushes the tail/feathers and the lion quickly dispatches the pointer and heads off to kill some ranchers lambs or calves, which is more fun for him anyway (Tak and coyotesalyer are still about 30 miles out). My Lab and I are home playing with the kids and a nice Chukar dinner is roasting in the oven. You see, the Lab refused to chase a lion, knowing that to do so was idiotic and could only end in a face full of claws, so he hunted around nearby and flushed a covey. I went 3 for 3, then rolled in a fourth to make 4. My Lab retrieved all of them and we called it a day...... 
The next day, my Lab and I were called back and successfully tracked two guys who had gotten lost in the area the day before! :mrgreen:


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## coolgunnings

coyoteslayer; first off I am glad that you love your dogs and enjoy what you do with them. Second off I am happy for you that they have the endurance needed to make your hunting enjoyable.

For you bird dog guys, I can not believe you let coyoteslayer suck you into this dribble.

Ironman, your last post was a classic. 

We all have the dogs we have for one particular reason or another. comparing these breeds to one another is kind of rediculous, like mentioned before in this thread it is like comparing apples to oranges. 

coyoteslayer as far as endurance is concerned, my labrador can go four days strait above 12,000 ft. putting in 10 to 15 miles a day pushing for ptarmigan, on country that is a lot like chukar country. Do I want to compare her to your hounds? no. Am I bragging? maybe a little :lol: . 

Anyway I am glad that we all love our dogs and what they do for us.


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## coyoteslayer

I guess I'm nothing, but trouble.


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## utfireman

That and maybe not firing on all eight cylinders. Anyone that lets themself chase dog's all over the mountain, gets himself lost/stuck. Then has search and rescue come and save him, can't be firing on all eight. It's time to take her in and get a tune up. -*|*-


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## coyoteslayer

It sounds like you are talking from experience. Good luck with that.


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## TAK

coyoteslayer said:


> And where did you read I have hounds? I will have you know I have all my teeth and don't talk with a split tongue!
> 
> Well it was fun while it lasted but I can see you have some thick blinders on.... Did ya look up the breeding E-Pointers and German Shorthaired Pointers into the sled dogs... Maybe it is for the thick coat they both have!
> 
> And I am now ****!!! I have never had anyone on any forum accuse me I had hounds!!!! Never.......
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are you talking like you know all about the subject??? You just confirmed to me that you really have no idea what you are saying.
Click to expand...

I am only going off of my limited time hunting big game hounds, I just relayed what little about some hunting with them.
Ur first post was questioning the endurance and grit of Bird Dogs. I just gave my opinion that kinda makes yours... well far fetched.
I would never compair any of my dogs to a Big Game hound for desire to chase big game, as I would hope you would not compair your dogs to hunting birds....
But Dammit to He!! I want to know Y are the Mushers breeding to these Pointers!


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## TAK

Ironman said:


> Alright, let's settle this so this dumb thread can die. :evil:
> 
> Tak and his pointer, coyoteslayer and his hound, and me and my Lab will have a contest to prove once and for all which breed is the best.
> We'll strap a Chukar to a Cougar's tail and release it a day before the big event a good 45 miles out of its home range. The cat and bird will leave plenty of scent so all the breeds can follow. Then, the following day we will release all the mutts.
> //dog// //dog// //dog//
> I'll save everyone the wait, the results of such a "hunt" are obvious! _(O)_
> After a good 14 hours on the trail, the hound and pointer catch up to the big cat. The hound goes in; the cat is then treed in an old Juniper. The now exhausted hound suddenly dies of heart failure after having run the 45 miles and treeing the cat, getting mauled in the process no doubt. The pointer is of course standing there pointing at the tree and what little is left of the Chukar on the cats tail as it dangles in front of the pointer like bait. Eventually (a few hours), the pointer gives in and rushes the tail/feathers and the lion quickly dispatches the pointer and heads off to kill some ranchers lambs or calves, which is more fun for him anyway (Tak and coyotesalyer are still about 30 miles out). My Lab and I are home playing with the kids and a nice Chukar dinner is roasting in the oven. You see, the Lab refused to chase a lion, knowing that to do so was idiotic and could only end in a face full of claws, so he hunted around nearby and flushed a covey. I went 3 for 3, then rolled in a fourth to make 4. My Lab retrieved all of them and we called it a day......
> The next day, my Lab and I were called back and successfully tracked two guys who had gotten lost in the area the day before! :mrgreen:


Really Funny, but anyone that knows me, knows that TAK being away from a Beer Cooler more than crawling distance is just a lie!
Let me tell ya about me huntin style, if the dogs can't put them up in the Road, it better be within scatter gun distance off of it. The Beer must be Cold and Free Running and pleanty of it! I consider meself a big help to all you Chukar hunters. I only Shoot the dumb ones that are in the Road. I take them out of the breeding pool so they don't produce dumb ones again!

Everyone please hold you thanks...


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## coyoteslayer

> Really Funny, but anyone that knows me, knows that TAK being away from a Beer Cooler more than crawling distance is just a lie!
> Let me tell ya about me huntin style, if the dogs can't put them up in the Road, it better be within scatter gun distance off of it. The Beer must be Cold and Free Running and pleanty of it! I consider meself a big help to all you Chukar hunters. I only Shoot the dumb ones that are in the Road. I take them out of the breeding pool so they don't produce dumb ones again!
> 
> Everyone please hold you thanks...


I can tell from your posts tonight that you have been drinking tonight and I think you have had one to many beers. You need to check your pants because you might have urinated yourself already. Here is some advice. Take a cold shower and get sober.


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## CC

Without comparing the two types of dogs, I will compare the two types of hunting. I personally find that hunting with a bird dog is a partnership, where the two of you are working with each other to accomplish the task. A good bird dog is aware of you as it hunts, points, and retrieves. A hound on the other hand is kind of a turn it loose, and we'll see you when we see you, kind of adventure. I prefer the partnership experience of bird hunting, over trying to keep up with the hound. I also find it much more sporting to hit a flushing chukar heading downhill at mach 1 while I'm gasping for breath, than hitting a lion in a tree after catching my breath, taking a few photos, and a video, taking careful aim and pulling the trigger. I'm not against hunting for lion, bear, etc., it just isn't my cup of tea.


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## TAK

coyoteslayer said:


> Really Funny, but anyone that knows me, knows that TAK being away from a Beer Cooler more than crawling distance is just a lie!
> Let me tell ya about me huntin style, if the dogs can't put them up in the Road, it better be within scatter gun distance off of it. The Beer must be Cold and Free Running and pleanty of it! I consider meself a big help to all you Chukar hunters. I only Shoot the dumb ones that are in the Road. I take them out of the breeding pool so they don't produce dumb ones again!
> 
> Everyone please hold you thanks...
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell from your posts tonight that you have been drinking tonight and I think you have had one to many beers. You need to check your pants because you might have urinated yourself already. Here is some advice. Take a cold shower and get sober.
Click to expand...

Burp!! Who me?


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## seniorsetterguy

Burp!! Who me?[/quote]

I think he's already clean and sober. This post is examplary: Perfect spelling and perfect punctuation!


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## TAK

seniorsetterguy said:


> Burp!! Who me?


I think he's already clean and sober. This post is examplary: Perfect spelling and perfect punctuation![/quote]

!!! :mrgreen:


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