# Interesting lion numbers 2012/13



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*2012-2013 Cougar Hunt Season Harvest Summary:---link:*

*http://wildlife.utah.gov/cougar/pdf/harvest_2012_2013_preliminary.pdf*

*2012/13 harvest objective units were open to take 485 lions ..---UNLIMITED PERMITS avalibale.*

*Limited entry units issed 365 permits for lions ..*

*850 total cats possible harvest if 100% success rate ...*

*In the end, 311 total sport mountain lion harvest in Utah for 2012/13 ....*

*Any thought's ??*


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

200 plus views and not one other posts ? speachless or what..

A couple things that stick out here in my mind,

Lions treed per day------
The Houndsmen guys that like ( or did like ) catching cats for fun are 
taking the short end of this deal!!!!!!!! 
No wonder the sport of houndmenship is dieing--- POOR, poor numbers.!. 

The other thing is average age harvested, While 1/2 of the state is OK, getting by,
I would suggest any unit with average age under 3.5 should be removed from
harvest objective hunting---But hey---Thats just my opinion....;-)............


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks goob for the link. I was able to call and get the age from my cat last year. He ended up being 5 years old. Generally, what age is considered "mature" for cats?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

From a quick look it seems that the LE total was 221/365 for a 60.5% success rate. Only 90/485 from harvest objective. 

What is considered a good success percent on LE hunts? I am not a lion hunter and have not looked into harvest objective. So you can explain the purpose? It seems they want lions gone from there? Is it like elk hunting on the Henry's?


Also I noticed unit 18 issued 4 LE permits, but 6 cats were harvested? Can you explain why?


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> 200 plus views and not one other posts ? speachless or what..
> 
> A couple things that stick out here in my mind,
> 
> ...


A lot of us here don't know anything about chasing lions. We don't have dogs. We wouldn't even know how to start. We're interested in learning but don't have anything valuable to offer to your discussion. That's how you get 200 views with no comments.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Is Unit 18 one of the split LE/HO units? That would be the only thing I can come up with.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Geeze Goofy if you're getting ignored here's some helpful hints:

> Get another username. After awhile members get tired of ya or you make a bunch of enemies because you don't hold the same opinions they do. If you're a new member it's like hitting the "refresh" button; you can start all over. New members get a lot of hits.

> Heading keywords are important. Abbreviations, like "SFW", "DWR", "NRA", "LDS", "UWC" draw a lot of attention, but nothing draws more attention, and brings out the best in our members during the joyous Holiday season, than the word "poaching". Political words or phrases in a heading are attention-getters too, but should be avoided.

> Put your thread in Big Game, maybe you'll get some replies before the Forum police move the thread to where it belongs.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Seriously, it is an interesting chart and thanks for posting it Goofy.

I tried to find a simliar chart for the last season I had a Utah lion tag, 07/08, but couldn't find one.

I was surprised the "treed lion" numbers were as low as they were. We treed 5 different lions in 4 days, 1 cat a day for 3 days and treed 2 cats another day. 

I don't know what to think about the age numbers. On one hand it tells me there's good recruitment, but on the other hand you could surmise all the older cats have been harvested. I don't know much about what's going on in cat country these days, don't get around the lion guys anymore and there's not too many running dogs in southwest Wyoming now, just aren't any lions left here....nothing for them to eat my guess.

.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Goob, I think you missed the best keyword for anybody to get 100's of replies: Monroe.

**and goofy, just checking your math, I think you are adding the two columns when you should only be looking at the right hand column. There are 365 LE permits and combined with the HO minimums the goal is 485 cats, not 365 LE + 485 HO. So a harvest of 311/485 instead of 311/850.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Ahhh..............Christmas is in the air.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Johnny is right, 17 Limited entry units open up to harvest objective
hunting in March. Over the counter , unlimited tags.

Johnny, answer to post #3.
Any lion checked in at the DWR under 2 years old is clasified as a juvenile..
And a female will generaly not breed until 2 1/2 years old ....
A tom will not start to "feel out" until 4.5 -5 years old ...
Stud Toms are 6-9 years old ...

And Randomelk, Yes, HO hunting is designed to keep lion numbers at a minimum...


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I may be blind, stupid, or both. But, how did a few of the units end up with more harvested than tags given out..........????


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Sorry, I re-read the link, and it is minimum harvest tags, I thought that was a max number.
we used to do harvest tags when you had to call in each morning to see if there was any tags left in the area you wanted to chase.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think its a good start! 

Cats are hard for me to enjoy. The last and only one I hunted cost me over 2, 000 bucks to hunt. The guide told me no kids and none of my friends went. To tell you the truth I've had funner dentist visits.

The unit I drew everyone said was shot out but yet when the $$green is in the guides hand they can find the cats if they want and I had my cat killed in one day. 

Right now I could care less if they killed them all! I can't hunt them or chase them without forking out loads of money so why do I want to see more of them. So for me there a waste of a resource. 

Maybe if I new someone with dogs and they allowed me to come with them once in a while I'd learn to like them. I do like being outside that time of year. I like seeing the dogs work but don't have any time with my work to get and train my own dogs. 

Thats mho on the matter


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Goofy,
Is it broken down by res / non-res at all?
The couple of cat hunters I have talked with over the years were out of state guys who had booked round trip flights for a guided hunt. Both cats I saw still had milk on their lips. I figure this is do to shooting the first one treed to avoid flying home with an unfilled tag. I'm not saying this is the sole reason for the low average age but it can't help it.
Your thoughts?


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Make a post about lions in Utah and the thread always seems to head in the same direction....So I was one of those 200 reads without a post Goofy.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> Johnny is right, 17 Limited entry units open up to harvest objective
> hunting in March. Over the counter , unlimited tags.
> 
> Johnny, answer to post #3.
> ...


My point was that they have a minimum harvest objective but is there population numbers to support those goals? That is the idea i suppose. My henry elk reference was to try and compare that they could have an elk objective of any number down there and the harvest would be small. So if you take harvest objective units(where they aim to have a minimal number of cats) out of the equation, are the limited entry success rates considered low?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> My point was that they have a minimum harvest objective but is there population numbers to support those goals?
> 
> IMO, The minimum HO's on most of the units are ridiculous...
> In some case's , the min HO number is HIGHER than the total
> ...


Definately low compared to past years! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From 1995 through 2004, we were 95%+ success rate on LE lion hunts ..
During those years , we were taking 12 to 18 LE hunters a year.
( There were some years we had 100% success on LE )


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