# Interesting read on crossbow seasons in other states



## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

http://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2013/5/1/crossbow-controversies/

http://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2013/5/1/crossbow-controversies/


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

From a first hand personal experience, when LA allowed crossbows any time my older brother bought one. He first shot a pig with it then later that year got a deer. He said that it was still challenging because the deer has to be close, closer than he needed them to be with his muzzleloader. Due to the new challenge and ability to hunt deer with a bow, he sold his muzzleloader and now either hunts rifle or crossbow. He usually limits himself to 3 deer per year, one being a management doe on his brother in laws hunting club. In LA the deer season is roughly 4 months long with a season limit of 6 and a daily limit of 2.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Anyone that thinks crossbows won't take more game and cut tags in utah is sniffing bike seats. Anyone that thinks they don't extend the range is full of crap! I've seen it first hand! I've had cross bows! 

I get sick of the lies and sick of the healthy man's excuse to be lazy. I spend months practicing a year, my kids spend 2 to 4 days a week practicing year round. My kids are world class shooters! A kid fresh off the street can out shoot any of my kids in two minutes of teaching them the ropes with a cross bow. If my 10 year old girl who was about 50 lbs at the time can pull a legal 40 lb bow left hand anyone should be able to.


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

Hey Scott, please explain how a crossbow extends the range.....


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Extends the range to what? Youtube is full of 90 to 100 yard bow kills.






Seems ranges are already way the heck out there...

-DallanC


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## ut1031 (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree with u Dallan, I am referring to a crossbow.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

swbuckmaster said:


> Anyone that thinks crossbows won't take more game and cut tags in utah is sniffing bike seats. Anyone that thinks they don't extend the range is full of crap! I've seen it first hand! I've had cross bows!
> 
> I get sick of the lies and sick of the healthy man's excuse to be lazy. I spend months practicing a year, my kids spend 2 to 4 days a week practicing year round. My kids are world class shooters! A kid fresh off the street can out shoot any of my kids in two minutes of teaching them the ropes with a cross bow. If my 10 year old girl who was about 50 lbs at the time can pull a legal 40 lb bow left hand anyone should be able to.


It's funny how that article mentioned the baseless rants some haters have for anything crossbow, and then the third post on this thread is just that. It's obvious you didn't read any of the article I posted. If crossbows are as bad as you say, bring some data to the table and we can have an intelligent conversation. Otherwise, save that steam coming from your ears for something that actually has some clout.

Or, at least read the article and then we'll chat.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Good read. I am not sure I would purchase and use a cross bow, but I suppose I am not opposed to it's use either. A cross bow is quite loud to shoot. String jumping would likely increase due to it's noise level. One shot is about all a person would get at a critter. Can you imagine the difficulty in calking to reload one in a tree stand, or all the motion it takes when trying to be undetected while standing behind a bush or tree to get off a second shot? Then you have the issue of carrying one ready to shoot in a vehicle. The laws, I am sure, would prohibit one ready for use to be carried in a vehicle... thus the end of road hunting with one. The law already requires arrows to be kept in a covered quiver when transporting. I can't see making any exceptions to that law for cross bows. Walking around with a loaded rifle when deer hunting is not only dangerous, but foolish. To do the same with a "loaded" cross bow would be the same thing. All it would take is to pass a law prohibiting hiking with a loaded and ready to fire cross bow and that alone would be enough to convince me that I wouldn't want to use one. I am sure if legalized, they would become a novelty at first, but after the first season of use, many would revert back to their hand held bow. Other than the ability to shoot a flatter trajectory, I see no advantage in their use for hunting. swbuckmasters argument of "laziness" makes me smile. It is word for word, the argument that was used years ago when replaceable blade broad heads were introduced into the market. I have to side with moonstickles, get rid of the emotions and produce some facts, then lets talk.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

bow_dude said:


> Walking around with a loaded rifle when deer hunting is not only dangerous, but foolish.


Just curious, do you walk around with a shotshell in the chamber of your shotgun? How is that anymore or less dangerous than a rifle doing the same thing?

-DallanC


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Crossbows hold no advantage over regular bows. 


Is a fools argument. So quit it. 


You have comicon isn't that enough?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Iron Bear said:


> Crossbows hold no advantage over regular bows.
> 
> Is a fools argument. So quit it.
> 
> You have comicon isn't that enough?


But they're so scary looking and date back to over a thousand years ago, they must be made illegal because they look scary.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

wouldn't an advantage be not having to draw? Seems a lot stealthier with a crossbow. How many deer have spooked as a result of seeing a hunter draw their bow?


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

DallinC... No, I do not walk around with a shot shell in the chamber. How is that any more dangerous??? Answer: it isn't any more or less, it is the same. Too many people have tripped and had their weapon go off, wounding and often killing another person. I personally have know of a few instances. 1) a high school buddy was shot in the thigh with a shot gun, almost lost his jewels. 2) My wife's cousin was killed in a duck hunting accident by one of his buddies. 3) A friend stumbled and fell into the mud barrel first, while duck hunting. The weapon fired and split the barrel open like a mushroom. 4) Another guy I know of was shot in the abdomen down near Vernal when his hunting buddy was climbing into a duck boat and the weapon fired. How many people have been shot or nearly shot when climbing through a fence while holding their weapon and it fired. The list goes on and on and on. If there is no shot shell, bullet or any other projectile in the chamber, it cannot fire. Convince the thousands of fatherless children, widows and mothers who have lost a loved one to a foolish accident about how safe the practice was of the person who thought they could beat the odds. I cannot force you or anyone else to handle a weapon safely, but I can choose who I want to hunt with. Kind of a funny story, but true. Several years ago we quit work early due to rain. (I was working a construction site). My brother-in-law and I decide to go hunt some ducks. We stopped at his house and picked up his shot gun. He was wildly waving it around in the kitchen when his wife got all over him about it. He said,"it's safe... it is not loaded". He pointed it at the ceiling and pulled the trigger. (At least he had the good sense to point it in a safe direction.) Ever heard a shotgun go off inside a house standing next to it? Blew a hole through the ceiling and roof. She started screaming hysterically. He was more than embarrassed. I had to go shake out my pant legs. Needless to say we did not go hunting that afternoon. After that, he kept the guns outside in the garage (wife's demands). Funny thing about it all was his father (my father-in-law) was a gun smith. If anyone should have known safe gun handling practices, it was him. (Speaking of my brother-in-law).


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## carsonc1974 (Jul 23, 2012)

bow_dude said:


> DallinC... No, I do not walk around with a shot shell in the chamber. How is that any more dangerous??? Answer: it isn't any more or less, it is the same. Too many people have tripped and had their weapon go off, wounding and often killing another person. I personally have know of a few instances. 1) a high school buddy was shot in the thigh with a shot gun, almost lost his jewels. 2) My wife's cousin was killed in a duck hunting accident by one of his buddies. 3) A friend stumbled and fell into the mud barrel first, while duck hunting. The weapon fired and split the barrel open like a mushroom. 4) Another guy I know of was shot in the abdomen down near Vernal when his hunting buddy was climbing into a duck boat and the weapon fired. How many people have been shot or nearly shot when climbing through a fence while holding their weapon and it fired. The list goes on and on and on. If there is no shot shell, bullet or any other projectile in the chamber, it cannot fire. Convince the thousands of fatherless children, widows and mothers who have lost a loved one to a foolish accident about how safe the practice was of the person who thought they could beat the odds. I cannot force you or anyone else to handle a weapon safely, but I can choose who I want to hunt with. Kind of a funny story, but true. Several years ago we quit work early due to rain. (I was working a construction site). My brother-in-law and I decide to go hunt some ducks. We stopped at his house and picked up his shot gun. He was wildly waving it around in the kitchen when his wife got all over him about it. He said,"it's safe... it is not loaded". He pointed it at the ceiling and pulled the trigger. (At least he had the good sense to point it in a safe direction.) Ever heard a shotgun go off inside a house standing next to it? Blew a hole through the ceiling and roof. She started screaming hysterically. He was more than embarrassed. I had to go shake out my pant legs. Needless to say we did not go hunting that afternoon. After that, he kept the guns outside in the garage (wife's demands). Funny thing about it all was his father (my father-in-law) was a gun smith. If anyone should have known safe gun handling practices, it was him. (Speaking of my brother-in-law).


 I would not consider most of these instances, "accidents." Not being there, I don't know the whole situation, but most of these seem to be examples of negligent discharge, and is the fault of the operator. We are all responsible for our trigger fingers.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

ut1031 said:


> Hey Scott, please explain how a crossbow extends the range.....


Not trying to be rude just stating facts. Take you for example, you can't hit a barn door at a 100 yards with a bow. You could hit a pie plate easy with a crossbow. Without wind you should be able to hit a grape fruit with it. Same with my kids. They can't hit at that distance but a cross bow they can. 
Most dudes that bow hunt can't hit anything past fifty yards with a bow. I've been arround long enough to know better. With a cross bow not only can they do it but they can do it accuratly and without practice.

Heck I can't hit anything past 60 yards without a crap ton of practice.

Kelly curious to why you would care to allow crossbows in the bow hunt. You can already hunt with one with your condition. I'm not against guys like yourself using them. I'm against the guys looking for the easy way out. I'm also against the slider sights on bows. I'm against the 1000+ yard guns. I'm against the 500 yard muzzys. Technology is taking the integrity out of the hunt. It's sad imho


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

utahgolf said:


> wouldn't an advantage be not having to draw? Seems a lot stealthier with a crossbow. How many deer have spooked as a result of seeing a hunter draw their bow?


I think the challenge to be stealthier with a crossbow would be different.

They really are not made to carry for a long ways and they are pretty awkward to carry.

They are designed for more of a blind or tree stand, using them to stalk would be interesting to say the least.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

swbuckmaster said:


> Technology is taking the integrity out of the hunt. It's sad imho


Maybe we should limit it to long bows or recurves then.

The technology of the compound bow is amazing when you compare it to a longbow/recurve.

It is way easier to shoot a compound than a long/recurve bow.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

A few thoughts here. And really, I don't have a dog in the fight one way or the other.

-First - the only stats the blog post cites are from Michigan. Most of the article is just a series of opinion statements that pretty much say "What's the big deal? It's just a crossbow.". 

-Second - It appears that most of the states that allow them during archery seem to be where big game hunting = whitetail deer. I didn't see a western state on the list.

-Third - Most whitetail shots are relatively close range compared to hunting mule deer and elk in the western states. Dense forests make a huge difference. With most shots in the 30-50 yard range in heavily tree-stand whitetail hunting - I don't see how a crossbow is really any different than a recurve than a compound than a 30-30 than a 12 gauge with a slug. 

- Last - My own opinion is that in a state where the number of deer tags are rationed, and available only through a draw system, then a tag is a tag, and the weapon used to pursue really shouldn't matter. I'd like to see ALL tags in the draw, none over the counter. But with that tag, the tag-holder can use any weapon, with a week each set aside to pursue with archery (including cross bow), muzzie, and rifle. Knowing the ranges and things with the weapons, I'd also suggest that if you choose to hunt with archery, then you can hunt any of the open weeks - but must use your archery equipment. If you use muzzie, then you can hunt only the muzzie and rifle, but must use your smoke pole. and if you hunt rifle, then you only hunt the rifle season. 

I have no issue with a crossbow as an archery weapon. Sure, as pointed out, it is much easier to master longer shots. But really, clumsy hunters with any weapon will have difficulty getting within range and making shots with any weapon. It is why rifle hunters miss 50 yard shots regularly. Without practice with any weapon, no shot is as reliable as we may think.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

I am with MuscleWhitefish. Trying to stalk with a cross bow would be a challenge. But, I have seen a guy or two out in the woods on occasion carrying one. 

Back in the day when I shot a recurve, I shot pretty consistently, but I was pleased to hit a basket ball at 20 yards and if I could hit a softball, it was a huge bonus. With my compound decked out with a sight, I expect to hit the 1 inch dot at 20 yards, and usually do. When I was shooting compound with fingers (string walking) and no sight, I could hit the 1 inch dot at 20 yards, but out past 30, it was anybody guess where the arrow ended up. The compound, without a doubt is much more accurate, but it takes as much practice with it as it did with the recurve to keep up with that accuracy. The distance one shoots can be the same. When I was hunting with a recurve, I saw many shoot from their trucks and at distances of 100 yards just as some of the compounders do today. I know that being able to shoot accurately with a rife and scope also takes practice. To shoot as accurately as SW says, still takes practice. It is not a slam dunk, although as stated, it is more accurate at longer distances. I don't buy into the lazy hunters claim. It is just another weapon of choice. If we take the statement that we often hear posted that, "we owe it to the animal we hunt to be the best we can," then we should all become compound shooters or cross bow shooters if they are legalized. I doubt I will ever become a cross bow owner, but if legalized... well, as I stated, it is just another weapon of choice.

Garyfish... Wyoming is a western state and I believe it is a legal cross bow state.


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## kdog (May 4, 2015)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Maybe we should limit it to long bows or recurves then.
> 
> The technology of the compound bow is amazing when you compare it to a longbow/recurve.
> 
> It is way easier to shoot a compound than a long/recurve bow.


This is a very valid point.

if we are really going to take this argument we should go back to hand knapped heads and spears only. Bow technology takes too much of the integrity out.

I will say I like hunting up close, as such I like to operate something that causes me to do so, but that has nothing to do with the integrity of the hunt.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Can the cross bow have a magnifying scope and an attached range finding device? 

Seems like the only ideas of late are how to kill more of the very animals we claim to want to protect/hunt. (interesting that we want to protect and kill them)


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Something like this.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

bow_dude said:


> Garyfish... Wyoming is a western state and I believe it is a legal cross bow state.


Good catch. I missed the Wyoming mention. Fair enough.

But all the "stats" given in the blog post are not from western states, but rather from heavy (exclusive?) whitetail states - Michigan, Virginia, and Indiana.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

GaryFish said:


> Good catch. I missed the Wyoming mention. Fair enough.
> 
> But all the "stats" given in the blog post are not from western states, but rather from heavy (exclusive?) whitetail states - Michigan, Virginia, and Indiana.


Nothing like a little selection bias to drive the controversy.


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

I have hunted with every weapon, and last year took whitetail with: bow, crossbow, MZ and Rifle, just to see if I could. I've also taken them with shotgun.
I know a little about the subject:
The crossbow learning curve is very short, BUT the drawbacks are multiple. Noise is incredible, limiting you to normal bow range. They are very awkward and heavy. Not reasonable to spot and stalk. When coyote hunting with one, I've reloaded in a treestand. Wish I had a video of the contortions required in that manuever!
I now hunt with my new Mathews No Cam and will probably not go back to crossbow. Nice to have the experience of a different weapon, just personally not for me.


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