# No limitation on target shooting ?



## guner (Sep 25, 2007)

Just thought I would throw this out there o-||

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=208107 ... featured-1


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Thank heavens they can't ban it. But what they should do is restrict the type of ammo during high risk seasons. I know they have banned tannerite, and tracers, but have they banned steel core? Those are the only bullets I can see actually making a spark that could ignite dry brush. I tend to believe that most of these fires were caused by idiots who started campfires, or carelessly dropped cigarette butts, then blamed it on the bullet for the sake of making them look less responsible. If people would exercise more caution in everything they do when things are so dry like they are, we wouldn't have the liberal gun control people knocking at the door with their pitchforks, trying to execute our gun rights. But overall, it seems like "target shooting" is the convenient thing to blame these fires on lately.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Anybody that hasnt seen sparks from lead bullets isnt shooting enough. It happens alot if you shoot metal objects. Its not the lead that is the source of the spark, but bits of metal being super heated when impacted and torn free. Much easiler seen shooting at night of course, and different compositions and thicknesses of metal, but it does happen.

I shot some 1/4" plate targets once with a .22-250 & .55grn spitzers. It punched perfect holes in one side and out the back, the metal sparked like crazy.

A quick google search turned up this.






-DallanC


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Moral of the story: be prepared for the worst when shooting. Bring a shovel and water to put a fire out if one sparks up


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> Moral of the story: be prepared for the worst when shooting. Bring a shovel and water to put a fire out if one sparks up


+1 I like to take one of those cheap walmart pump up flower sprayers with me when we go out. in dry conditions... but if nothing else carry a shovel!

-DallanC


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Man, the news is really hopping on the bandwagon to ban shooting. At least Fox 13 is. 

Here's my question- why not go shooting in these areas that have already been burnt up? Not much left to start on fire, right?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Or why doesnt the BLM just make a designated shooting area, confine shooting to that approved area.


-DallanC


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Or why doesnt the BLM just make a designated shooting area, confine shooting to that approved area.
> 
> -DallanC


I'll be perfectly honest with you, DallanC- if I wanted that, I would go to Lee Kay. I enjoy the freedom of finding a place to shoot, and not dealing with the extra rules that come with a shooting range. While I understand it would be a more controlled environment, when I go out, I'm looking for freedom, rather than control.

What I do like about your idea is it gives variety and more choice of ranges that people can go to if they would like to shoot at a range.

I think the biggest issue here is the morons who don't use common sense when they go out shooting, and refuse to follow the rules. I just heard Mia Love (mayor of Saratoga Springs) answer a question about "what to do with the shooters and all the fires they are starting." Her answer was spot on- she essentially said that its not necessarily target shooters starting the fires, but target shooters who aren't following the rules they have in place, ie exploding targets and restricted ammunition.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Banning target shooting because of these fires would be like banning motor vehicles because of drunk drivers. These types of things are the small price to pay for the freedoms we enjoy. I pray that the winds calm and that the homes are spared.----------SS


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Now they are blaming 20 fires in Utah this year on target shooters. Hmmmm...... I call bullchit on that.
People do need to use common sense though and not be out shooting in certain areas when it's hot and dry.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47934760/ns ... e_monitor/


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I hate going to any of these shooting ranges and seeing all the trash, tvs and crap.

The only thing good about these areas is they attract these dirt bags from taking their crap up in the hills and dumping it. 

The west side of the lake is however getting to be a joke. Peoples houses are getting bullet holes in them. I see people shooting in the direction of other people. It amazes me no one had been shot.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Maybe one solution might be better education of what exactly is happening. I really do not understand why we cannot be told what exactly somebody was doing when fires are supposedly started by target shooting. How can we as a shooting community take corrective action with such piss poor information. It would be a lot easier to support and adjust our actions if the reports were not so general.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I truly believe a lot of information is intentionally withheld because they want to paint with a broad brush. Call it a conspiracy theory, but it seemed like once the old "target shooters did it" ball got rolling, the media turned it into a total witch hunt against all shooters. People naturally want to blame someone, but I'm with you Huntaholic, why can't they just report the facts of the case, and put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the idiots who caused the issues, rather than the whole of us? Surely the facts are known in most of these instances.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Here's a thought. If they want to ban target shooting because was the cause of a small percentage of wildfires then why not ban campers who also produce a percentage of wildfires?

Basically, this thing is likely to turn into a political battle, and in that case the loudest voices and/or the voices with the most money are likely to win. Therefore, prepare for a fight and prepare to contact your state representatives and senators in the state legislature, as well as the governor.

In particular, Governor Herbert is a very astute politician, and he will very likely lean toward the more politically powerful voices on this issue.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Jus sayin.................... I've shot thousands and thousands if not 100 thousand + rounds in all kinds of conditions and never started a fire. :O•-:


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

I know this has been talked about,but my wife and I are avid shooters,and dont really like the ranges.We usually go out in the west desert to a couple of places that dont see many people,there is a great dirt backing /and no brush or grass close,we are very responsible and always bring back more than we take(garbage),however I feel like Im going to get repromanded for being there.Kind of sucks that a few make it bad for all.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, the Quail Fire in Alpine was started by a city maintenance worker driving an excavator. The Rose Crest fire in Herriman last week was started when a guy's car broke down overheated and he parked it off the road over some dry weeds. Way things are right now, I think a dry fart in the wrong place will set the place on fire. 

As to the target shooting, I really think that is another issue all together. It can, and does happen in our open lands all the time, by responsible people that do it in ways that ensure safety for all. It is also done in ways that fire risk aside, puts those around also using the lands at risk of being hit. I don't mean this as any kind of gun control discussion, that is not my intent at all. But when we allow complete idiots to own and shoot fire arms, that will always be a risk. As it is a risk when those same idiots get behind the wheel of a car, or anything else. Its part of what we have to live with in our free society. Part of the trade off.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Its hard Gary because we guarantee certain freedoms, and have other privileges such as driving that people are competent enough to be deemed worthy of a license, but asking for common sense is something that goes way beyond people's comprehension.

I love to shoot but at this point I am in favor of the state asking retailers to take off the shelf items such as tracers that can cause fires until winter time. Additionally, maybe we should all just voluntarily take a break from target shooting to eliminate one more factor that may be causing fires? Im sure I'll get some grief for saying that, but thats why I say _voluntary_.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I agree with you Bax. 100%. I've not purchased any fireworks this year. And we wanted to do a shooting day this weekend with friends, but will be up fishing instead. I'm all for voluntarily laying off for a while. But its kind of like drunk driving. We've had all the education about it in the world. We all know about getting a DD. We all know if you drink, then you don't drive. There are laws and severe punishments that address it. Yet some idiots still choose to do it. Same as I'm sure we'll continue to have with unsafe shooters.


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## StillAboveGround (Aug 20, 2011)

Too bad common sense isn't so common... Almost anything can start a fire now, including hitting a metal tent stake with a hammer... We don't need to ban shooting anymore than we need to ban heavy equipment from working in dry grass. When conditions are like they are now everyone doing anything in dry grass needs to be careful. Shoot into a dirt back stop and have shovel and water ready.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Bax* said:


> I love to shoot but at this point I am in favor of the state asking retailers to take off the shelf items such as tracers that can cause fires until winter time. Additionally, maybe we should all just voluntarily take a break from target shooting to eliminate one more factor that may be causing fires? Im sure I'll get some grief for saying that, but thats why I say _voluntary_.


Bax,I understand what you are saying,but there are the dumba*** that wont do that and will make it even worse for those that are going to make sure they do everything to be safe.I also think that tracers,exploding rounds,etc.should be banned.It just seems that we are all going to grouped as irresponsible shooters because of few, IMHO.Thanks for listening


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Reply gone?


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Dunkem said:


> Reply gone?


Sounds like there was a problem with some updates made to the forum and several posts were removed somehow. Not sure if they will be recovered or not, but if you would like me to blabber on, Im happy to oblige 

Hopefully this will be corrected soon, but just a heads up


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Its all good.


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## fatbass (Sep 11, 2007)

Here it comes. Shooting bans set for later today. I find it interesting that 21 of the almost 500 wildfires started this year were started by target shooting so that activity gets banned. What about the activities that caused the other 96%?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2119154 ... featured-3


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

How you going to ban lightning?

The ban is a good one! I also think the shooting range out in the west side of the lake needs to be manned and redesigned safer. No more tannorite, no more tv's, no more bullets in peoples houses ect. Its a mess! The only good thing about it is it concentrates tards and keeps them from going out somewhere else and shooting up their trash.

It also disturbs me to see morons shooting next to the road up hobble creek canyon. The two times i drove by this area this year all i saw was unsafe shooting. Isn't there a pay/safe shooting range already in that canyon?


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## gregkdc (May 19, 2008)

Here is the map showing the restricted areas.
http://www.utahfireinfo.gov/fire_restri ... tions.html

Does anybody know of the 21 fires caused by target shooting how many of them were caused by legal target shooting? I ask because I know that one of them was caused by exploding targets when they were already illegal to use it on public land. It isn't fair to be lumped into the same group as law violators. Also if they really meant what they said about preventing fires you would think that they would have included far more land than they did, or maybe they just restricted the areas that have the greatest potential to cause a lot of damage (west of the lake and next to the homes). Besides it has been too **** hot lately for me to be be out shooting, it's supposed to be over 100 today!


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So it seems like the areas that are closed are pretty minimal. The question I have, is do these rules apply to shooting shotguns? Obviously the steel shot thing is a no-brainer, but since shotguns are generally used to shoot at flying targets, rather than at a target near the ground, would they be exempt from the restriction?


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I would hope that is the case. But people seem to group guns into a singular group and say they are all bad so who only knows what the real restrictions contain?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The signs state No Shooting... I would imagine that would cover anything, bows to bb guns and all firearms inbetween.


-DallanC


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

I cut and pasted this from a letter I sent to the editor of the Tribune. Their editorial slant is so far to the left they will never print something that says shooting doesn't automaticly cause fires:

I am hearing a lot of talk about target shooting causing fires in Utah. In 34 years with the Army, as an enlisted man in the Utah guard and as an officer in the Army, the National Guard and the Army Reserve, I have been the “Officer in Charge” or the “Safety Officer” responsible for hundreds of firing ranges in the United States and Europe. I have seen over a dozen fires started at practice ranges, the last one I was a brigade Safety officer at a machine gun range in Texas.
Machine guns always fire tracer rounds and every fire I have seen at a practice range was either started by pyrotechnics or tracers. Pyrotechnic (explosive) targets are sold in sporting goods stores all over the U.S. As are tracer rounds. Both are fun to shoot, like Fireworks are fun to shoot, but fireworks, tracers and pyrotechnics do not belong in Utah's wild lands during fire season.
On the other hand, shooting conventional rounds is as dangerous as hammering in a nail, and carpentry does not normally cause fires.
So if you think life isn't any fun if you can't shoot at pyrotechnic targets then you should only fire at professionally designed and managed ranges. On the other hand, if you think that alarm ism over sparks from conventional ammunition causing wildfires is an excuse to ban all shooting then you are believing fairy tales.

David J Adamson Lieutenant Colonel USAR (retired)
485 west Hindley, American Fork 84003
801-473-6539


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Well done Redleg. And now that I understand your background, your handle is much more understood 8)


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

Spot on redleg!!


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## StillAboveGround (Aug 20, 2011)

Yes Sir Redleg


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## 4pointmuley (Sep 18, 2007)

Can you still shoot out by the west side of Utah Lake? Is there a website on where you can and cannot shoot? I would like to shoot my muzzleloader.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Go to http://www.utahfireinfo.gov/fire_restrictions/restrictions.html There is an interactive map on there that shows which parts of the state have fire, firework, and target shooting restrictions. The area west of UL is one of them.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm kind of bummed because I've wanted to get out and practice with my shotguns for the upcoming bird hunts. I haven't seen anything that specifically mentions shotguns and clay pigeons, but I would naturally assume that falls into the "no discharge of firearms for target shooting" category. I don't see much, if any, fire danger in shooting up into the air at clay pigeons with lead shot, but I don't really want to push the issue either. I guess it's easier to say no shooting at all than to allow reasonable limits.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks for the fix, Bax*, I just realized it was .gov not .org.


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