# I fear PETA LESS



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I never thought Utah hunters would be making arguments about hunting like we have seen year after year when Mossback kills trophy bulls. I think these hunters are more like PETA and I fear PETA less. I think these same hunters are an enemy to hunting when they act childlish when someone kills a trophy bull. There is nothing wrong with hiring guides to help you be successful. Why do we even need to talk about "Fair Chase" and "Technology?" Those things are brought up by PETA . They say we aren't hunters because we have to use guns to kill animals. This comment is lame. We aren't cavemen!!

Wyo2ut questions the "fair chase" of the Spider when this bull is a wild animal. I don't think the Spider bull had a radio collar on his neck. Mossback couldn't even find this bull for two weeks and during those two weeks then any hunter on the Monroe could have shot him because Mossback didnt even know where he was. Scouting for animals is ethical. Having 5 friends or 5 guides is no different because both are looking for these animals and the animals don't know the guides are getting paid and my friends will work just as hard or harder for me than any guide.

Guides are no different than me hiring a plumber, a carpenter, a construction worker etc.

Once the news had spread that the Spider bull had been killed by the Mossback crew then this forum and many others exploded with RETARDED commments.

Hunters blame Conservations tags when these tags produce money for habitat so are these hunters against habitat? If rich people don't help pay for habitat then who will?

WHO is a bigger enemy to hunting? PETA or Jealous hunters? I wonder what youth hunters think about this forum when they see nonsense like One eyes thread and many others. I thought ALL hunters were on the same team. :shock:


----------



## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I heard Zimm plays for both teams...

Just when I thought I was going to tell Pro to muzzel and leash his pet Coyote for fear of him getting into the sheep or biting a child, you come out and make good sense. 

While I have nothing but disdain for the way Mossback makes a living, It really is no different than what I would do if I had a killer tag and the chance to take a killer bull like Spidey. I probably would have had every friend I could scrape up down there helping me find that bull.

The problem most people have is when large amounts of money trade hands to get it done. I think it cheapens the whole "hunting' experience and invites corruption. But alas, this kind of hunting, or should I say shooting/killing is the way things are going. It will be the end of hunting as we once knew it.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

That is very true PETA hates hunting as much as many average joe hunters hate trophy hunters or guides.

Trophy hunters also create jobs for Taxidermists. Guides try out and help invent better hunting equipment.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Ohh I promised I wouldn't look at another one of these... but I did so....

coyoteslayer:
Fair chase should always be a part of a hunters ethics otherwise it isn't hunting it literally is shooting fish in a barrel. I do not dislike guides, but dislike mossback because of some of the steps they take in order to kill the animal they want. They go to any measure no matter what it takes. You can displace me and my post but I stand by what I said, Mossback dose not use the term "Fair Chase" in their vocabulary. Someone was paid $10,000 that had a tag for the Monroe unit to not shoot the bull if they seen him and report where he was to mossback. Things like this show they did not use actual skills but someone elses skills to help find the bull. Before taking the $10,000 I would shoot the bull of a lifetime and it would be well worth more than $10,000 to me. When it comes to hunting there is a sense of right and wrong. I know mossback crosses onto private property sometimes they have no buisness being on, and there is nothing that will turn a land owner against hunters or sportsmans than the ones who don't respect their land or the rules. You have to look at my side for a minute, if you seen some of the tactics the mossback team takes to get the animal they want at all costs you wouldn't fancy them much either. Everyone seems to be behind Mossback and their tactics just because they got the biggest there is. If hunting is turning into a game where no one feels "fair chase" is part of the game then people like PETA are getting closer and closer to taking it away. Hunting should remain the way it always has been, I have no problem with help but the game is about fair chase. If I had taken the spider bull I would be much happier doing it myself then having all kinds of help and paid help at that. I agree with Pete, PETA dosen't want "Fair chase" they want "No chase" so there is no comparability from hunters that want good ethics and fair chase, to PETA. I will say you couldn't buy me off the bull or buck of a lifetime.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

> Hunting Ethics
> 
> Hunting ethics is a term which defines the true standards, conduct and moral judgement of a sportsman. Some say that people's hunting ethics are also a mirror image of the rest of their personal lives.
> 
> ...


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

One eye have you ever been on any of the hunts with Mossback? I personally have been guided by Mossback and what you say is totally false. I know a lot of the guides from Mossback and they are very good men.

Once again you are making up lies and Mossback hunts wild animals. You're just bitter and you are just looking for a fight. You have no proof of mossback using bad ethnics so your words mean NOTHING until you have proof. Doyle moss is a good man and I challenge anyone to meet him. He's a sportman and he abides by the rules just like you and I.



> I know mossback crosses onto private property sometimes they have no buisness being on, and there is nothing that will turn a land owner against hunters or sportsmans


One eye I was in the Bookcliffs with Mossback and we found a 190 class 4x4 muley from the road and we went and asked the Landowner if we could hunt his property. He said he is saving the mule deer for people who buy his landowner tags so we went to other place. We respected his property and we could have killed that buck anytime because the guy left to go back and herd his sheep.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> I never thought Utah hunters would be making arguments about hunting like we have seen year after year when Mossback kills trophy bulls. I think these hunters are more like PETA and I fear PETA less. I think these same hunters are an enemy to hunting when they act childlish when someone kills a trophy bull. There is nothing wrong with hiring guides to help you be successful. Why do we even need to talk about "Fair Chase" and "Technology?" Those things are brought up by PETA . They say we aren't hunters because we have to use guns to kill animals. This comment is lame. We aren't cavemen!!
> 
> Wyo2ut questions the "fair chase" of the Spider when this bull is a wild animal. I don't think the Spider bull had a radio collar on his neck. Mossback couldn't even find this bull for two weeks and during those two weeks then any hunter on the Monroe could have shot him because Mossback didnt even know where he was. Scouting for animals is ethical. Having 5 friends or 5 guides is no different because both are looking for these animals and the animals don't know the guides are getting paid and my friends will work just as hard or harder for me than any guide.
> 
> ...


Your comparisons really suck!!!

If you fear PETA less, fear me.

Heres a comparison for you: 
Hunting is similar to sex. I don't want someone showing me how or 10 other guys doing the work for me. I want the satisfaction and experiance of doing it myself, not some artificial scenerio ruining it for me or somone making it something that it's not.

Heres another comparsion that is similar:
Guides are like pornstars teaching 13 or 14 year olds about sex. Its an ugly thing!!!!


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Hunting Ethics
> 
> Hunting ethics is a term which defines the true standards, conduct and moral judgement of a sportsman. Some say that people's hunting ethics are also a mirror image of the rest of their personal lives.
> 
> ...


So what ethics code did Mossback break???


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> If you fear PETA less, fear me.


I don't fear little trolls



> Heres a comparison for you:
> Hunting is similar to sex. I don't want someone showing me how or 10 other guys doing the work for me. I want the satisfaction and experiance of doing it myself, not some artificial scenerio ruining it for me or somone making it something that it's not.
> 
> Heres another comparsion that is similar:
> Guides are like pornstars teaching 13 or 14 year olds about sex. Its an ugly thing!!!!


Well you view hunting a lot different than a lot of people. I feel sorry for your kids when you talk to them about hunting.

How was the Spider hunt artificial. Did Mossback have a bucket of grain leading the bull to the hunter? hahaha :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Hunting Ethics
> >
> > Hunting ethics is a term which defines the true standards, conduct and moral judgement of a sportsman. Some say that people's hunting ethics are also a mirror image of the rest of their personal lives.
> >
> ...


The "get it done anyway you can" attitude that so many have reported and also some have talked about on the forum.

"So prove it" is my answer from you? There are quite a few people on here that will attest to it and others who have never heard of this forum will confirm @ssback and other guides tactics as well.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> The "get it done anyway you can" attitude that so many have reported and also some have talked about on the forum.
> 
> "So prove it" is my answer from you? There are quite a few people on here that will attest to it and others who have never heard of this forum will confirm @ssback and other guides tactics as well.


Exactly you cannot prove that mossback uses bad tactics. You're just full of hot air.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

coyoteslayer, the point is that 190 class mule deer wasn't the biggest thing he had ever seen, whereas the new world record is a different story. Why wouldn't he do everything in his power to put his name on the #1 bull elk in the world ever shot. I know landowners have had problems with Mossback and trespassing. With all you wanting proof the next time Mossback rolls in I'll have a video camera at my side and you'll get the proof you've wanted and I'll show mossback for what they really are. I am not saying they use these tactics all the time or a lot, but they have been used before by them and if there is another animal as important as this bull I believe they will do it again. I wouldn't exactly go along with Harry Nutzack but agree with one point: I wouldn't get pleasure knowing I didn't do it myself and that is part of fair chase. A few friends looking for something for you is much different than people with thousands in there pocket to not shoot and watch and tell about a giant bull.


----------



## Renegade (Sep 11, 2007)

Cannibals & Useful Idiots By John Wasmuth.

Just google it.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> coyoteslayer, the point is that 190 class mule deer wasn't the biggest thing he had ever seen, whereas the new world record is a different story. Why wouldn't he do everything in his power to put his name on the #1 bull elk in the world ever shot. I know landowners have had problems with Mossback and trespassing. With all you wanting proof the next time Mossback rolls in I'll have a video camera at my side and you'll get the proof you've wanted and I'll show mossback for what they really are. I am not saying they use these tactics all the time or a lot, but they have been used before by them and if there is another animal as important as this bull I believe they will do it again. I wouldn't exactly go along with Harry Nutzack but agree with one point: I wouldn't get pleasure knowing I didn't do it myself and that is part of fair chase. A few friends looking for something for you is much different than people with thousands in there pocket to not shoot and watch and tell about a giant bull.


Well good luck One eye and the Video Crew!!! I cannot wait to see the footage. Oh and mossback did kill your one-eyed buck. How does that really make you feel?


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > If you fear PETA less, fear me.
> 
> 
> I don't fear little trolls
> ...


Well you view hunting a lot different than a lot of people. I feel sorry for your kids when you talk to them about hunting.[/quote:nuq5sc20]

I feel sorry for you and your kids when you have your kids taught how to hunt from guides. It's scary to imagine. The lesson being that dad can pay for whatever I need and not work for it and when it's given to me, I have little appreciation for it. At the time, yes they probably would, but guaranteed, they will simply be waiting for you to pay for the next hunt for something bigger and better, what is there to appreciate but what you will pay for next?

Do you buy everything for your kids? How much do they appreciate it.

Guides cannot teach heritage and tradition, unless guided hunts are the only heritage and tradition you have. 
Do you assure that the guide is teaching them about appreciation, respect, ethics, values, etc, regarding hunting? If you've paid them big bucks, I'd doubt you would want them waisting thier time with something like that and I don't think the guide has time for it either. They are worried about fulfilling the contract and putting the animal on the ground.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> coyoteslayer, the point is that 190 class mule deer wasn't the biggest thing he had ever seen.


Oh and One eye a 190 4x4 is a great buck on the Bookcliffs or anywhere for that matter. It was actually the biggest buck we saw on the hunt.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > coyoteslayer, the point is that 190 class mule deer wasn't the biggest thing he had ever seen.
> 
> 
> Oh and One eye a 190 4x4 is a great buck on the Bookcliffs or anywhere for that matter. It was actually the biggest buck we saw on the hunt.


That's not what I said, I said Moss has seen bigger deer and that there has been a lot bigger deer shot than 190 class whereas the spider bull was world class and #1.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Renegade said:


> Cannibals & Useful Idiots By John Wasmuth.
> 
> Just google it.


What the difference between PETA and other animal lovers,...... and paying great deals of money for flesh is when you are looking at the regular "Joe hunter's" demise?

Hunting opportunities are becoming fewer and fewer through encroachment, environmental issues etc. 
Encroachement is by far the hunter's worst enemy, and guides, clubs, and leases take a big chunk of what's left regarding a regular Joe's overall attitude towards hunting as well as his, beliefs and directions for his future.

Greed and encroachement is the hunters worst enemy by far.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I feel sorry for you and your kids when you have your kids taught how to hunt from guides. It's scary to imagine. The lesson being that dad can pay for whatever I need and not work for it and when it's given to me, I have little appreciation for it. At the time, yes they probably would, but guaranteed, they will simply be waiting for you to pay for the next hunt for something bigger and better, what is there to appreciate but what you will pay for next?


I will be the one who teaches my kids how to hunt and I will be their guide until their able to hunt on their own.

Have you ever built a house of your own with your own hands? You will appreciate your house more because you did it on your own. Do you change your own oil? Do you build your own guns or bows? You will appreciate these things more right?

If someone is a millionaire and they pay a guide then it doesnt mean they're less of a hunter. Jimmy Ryan, Ron Skoronski, Denny Austad, Doc Meyers are 10 times better than you and are a lot better shot. I would dare say more ethical also.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > I feel sorry for you and your kids when you have your kids taught how to hunt from guides. It's scary to imagine. The lesson being that dad can pay for whatever I need and not work for it and when it's given to me, I have little appreciation for it. At the time, yes they probably would, but guaranteed, they will simply be waiting for you to pay for the next hunt for something bigger and better, what is there to appreciate but what you will pay for next?
> 
> 
> I will be the one who teaches my kids how to hunt and I will be their guide until their able to hunt on their own.
> ...


Really coyoteslayer you think you can criticize someone you want without facts but I can't criticize mossback with things I know have happened in the past. Where do you come up with this logic?


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Really coyoteslayer you think you can criticize someone you want without facts but I can't criticize mossback with things I know have happened in the past. Where do you come up with this logic?


Well one thing comes to mind and that is the fact that you couldnt even kill a one-eyed deer.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > I feel sorry for you and your kids when you have your kids taught how to hunt from guides. It's scary to imagine. The lesson being that dad can pay for whatever I need and not work for it and when it's given to me, I have little appreciation for it. At the time, yes they probably would, but guaranteed, they will simply be waiting for you to pay for the next hunt for something bigger and better, what is there to appreciate but what you will pay for next?
> 
> 
> I will be the one who teaches my kids how to hunt and I will be their guide until their able to hunt on their own.
> ...


Why would you teach them to hunt? How come you don't pay for thier guides as well?

Puting prices on experiances is a hell of a thing. I'd hate to get out the photo album and start trying to determine what each experience depicted in the picture was actually worth, if I could come up with a price, it would, I'm sure cheapen it and then some.

Yes indeed, the things I do for myself especially when they are difficult I appreciate a whole lot more and I also have learned life lessons on the way there. Intangible things including what I've learned can NEVER be taken from me...ever. However tangible items can be lost very easily.

How much skill do you think someone would have to have to have a grundle of guys put you on an animal?
I'm sure you know the requirments to book a hunt with a guide already....... what makes you think that you have to be skillful to hunt under 10 guides? I'm amazed that they don't shoot it for them to. I imagine, as things progress however, maybe shooting the animal for them will also be included as part of the package.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Why would you teach them to hunt? How come you don't pay for thier guides as well?
> 
> Puting prices on experiances is a hell of a thing. I'd hate to get out the photo album and start trying to determine what each experience depicted in the picture was actually worth, if I could come up with a price, it would, I'm sure cheapen it and then some.
> 
> ...


Hmm well I have never paid for a guided hunt. Mossback guided me for free otherwise I would have done it myself. Proutdoors also guided me on a turkey hunt. I have 13 trophy animals mounted on my wall and 1 has been a guided hunt.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Really coyoteslayer you think you can criticize someone you want without facts but I can't criticize mossback with things I know have happened in the past. Where do you come up with this logic?
> 
> 
> Well one thing comes to mind and that is the fact that you couldnt even kill a one-eyed deer.


Like you could have killed one-eye. 2 out of the 3 years I watched him I had no tag. The year I had a tag it snowed a foot and he moved away from his normal area and I looked for all 5 days on the rifle I had to find him. I get in the back country and actually spot my own animals. What are your trophys a couple 6" spikes what? I don't mean to come off as an ass coyoteslayer because you've never really been on my bad side but your being just as much of a butthead as me. One eye didn't get big by being stupid, no I didn't get him but in the time I really watched him and knew him from the other bucks I had only 5 days at the chance. You wouldn't have gotten 1-I either. Now I am a ded. hunter I am hunting all 3 seasons this year and have passed on many takeable bucks.(3's and 4's) Both on the bow and muzz. I could have taken a real good 3 but I have my eyes set on a 5 point buck. I am still searching for him and actually get off get in the backcountry and do my hunting on my own, if I get the 5 point buck I am searching for I will be very glad to know I found him, I took him, and I am the one who really carries him out. I will not take a (smaller) different buck until the last day of the rifle hunt in the closing hours of deer season 08'. I have my eyes set on him and I will try to find and bag him myself I don't need help. As I said before One-Eye didn't get big by being stupid, he was a lot trickier buck than I have portrayed in previous posts. All I know is I will never hire a guide to find my buck/bull/trophy just so I can take a half hour ride out to pull a trigger and get no satisfaction out of it. I am only satisfied if I do it myself the whole way.


----------



## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> > > Really coyoteslayer you think you can criticize someone you want without facts but I can't criticize mossback with things I know have happened in the past. Where do you come up with this logic?
> ...


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Not one eye again! I would rather have a badger gnaw my face off than go through the 1 eye stuff again. Enough with the Mossback stuff, no one cares anymore. :roll:


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Like you could have killed one-eye. 2 out of the 3 years I watched him I had no tag. The year I had a tag it snowed a foot and he moved away from his normal area and I looked for all 5 days on the rifle I had to find him. I get in the back country and actually spot my own animals. What are your trophys a couple 6" spikes what? I don't mean to come off as **** because you've never really been on my bad side but your being just as much of a butthead as me. One eye didn't get big by being stupid, no I didn't get him but in the time I really watched him and knew him from the other bucks I had only 5 days at the chance. You wouldn't have gotten 1-I either. Now I am a ded. hunter I am hunting all 3 seasons this year and have passed on many takeable bucks.(3's and 4's) Both on the bow and muzz. I could have taken a real good 3 but I have my eyes set on a 5 point buck. I am still searching for him and actually get off get in the backcountry and do my hunting on my own, if I get the 5 point buck I am searching for I will be very glad to know I found him, I took him, and I am the one who really carries him out. I will not take a (smaller) different buck until the last day of the rifle hunt in the closing hours of deer season 08'. I have my eyes set on him and I will try to find and bag him myself I don't need help. As I said before One-Eye didn't get big by being stupid, he was a lot trickier buck than I have portrayed in previous posts. All I know is I will never hire a guide to find my buck/bull/trophy just so I can take a half hour ride out to pull a trigger and get no satisfaction out of it. I am only satisfied if I do it myself the whole way.


Dont make up excuses why you didnt get him. I dont hunt spikes and good luck on your hunts, but word of advice. If you don't have proof then dont post garbage.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

> Dont make up excuses why you didnt get him. I dont hunt spikes and good luck on your hunts, but word of advice. If you don't have proof then dont post garbage.


Well I gurantee you would not have bagged one-eye, I tried hard to get one-eye, but like he had before he eluded me like many other hunters. The year his leg had a problem was the year he got shot on the bow hunt, I hunted him the previous year he had 4 good legs and one-eye isn't a big disadvantage to a deer. The truth is one-eye had stayed where he was for as long as he could. He lived his life on one of the busiest spots in Sevier county for deer hunting and yet he still became a giant. I always had respect for 1-I because even though he had about 10 different parties after him he would always find a way to get away alive including from me. He made it until he was to unhealthy to keep trying and he finally got taken. He's still the biggest buck to this day I have seen and I'll never forget good ole' one-eye. As for your quote I'll get your proof when I can, but what you've posted is garbage, "I fear ethical hunters less than PETA". Good luck anyway I'm done here.


----------



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

And to reply to your original post of "all hunters should stick together" I'm for that but I won't stand by hunters who give hunting a bad name and a name that gives activists more support.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Well I believe you're giving hunting a bad name more than Mossback. Go back and thread your locked thread. You sounded mighty lame. Oh wait it was so bad they actually took the thread off the forum because they don't want people reading it.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Really coyoteslayer you think you can criticize someone you want without facts but I can't criticize mossback with things I know have happened in the past. Where do you come up with this logic?
> 
> 
> Well one thing comes to mind and that is the fact that you couldnt even kill a one-eyed deer.


I know I slammed 1-eye on the previous thread, but I have to agree with him here. Why can you say he is half the hunter these other guys are and that he is a bad hunter because he didn't get one eye when you don't know him? This is very ironic to me. It makes your point less valid when you are doing the same thing you are bitching him out for doing.

I disagree on the discussion of fair chase, it is always an important topic. Your example of "jealous hunters" being the same/as destructive as "PETA members" is way more than a stretch. I agree hunters in general need to stick together, since after all we are all in it together, right?


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> And to reply to your original post of "all hunters should stick together" I'm for that but I won't stand by hunters who give hunting a bad name and a name that gives activists more support.


I agree with yote, people making up *LIES* as you have done repeatedly is what gives anti's more ammo. I have asked dozens of times for proof, and you/EVERY other pinhead making claims have been unable to produce so much as ONE ounce of proof/evidence. I guess Mossback is as elusive as one-eye and bigfoot.



> Your example of "jealous hunters" being the same/as destructive as "PETA members" is way more than a stretch.


I disagree jahan. People making up stories gives hunting a bad image in the public eye. Why make the public think this nonsense is going on when it is NOT? If you can't see how that hurts at least as much as a tree hugger saying animals have rights then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> #1DEER 1-I said:
> 
> 
> > And to reply to your original post of "all hunters should stick together" I'm for that but I won't stand by hunters who give hunting a bad name and a name that gives activists more support.
> ...


I can see your point to some extent, but in general those rumors spread amongst other hunters, not nearly as in the public eye as PETA is. It is definitely not good for hunting, I agree with that, but as usual I believe Yote has gone to the far extreme to try and prove his point. As you seen yesterday I went off on ol' 1-eye for spreading rumors and what you didn't see was the back and forth through PM's with him basically saying the same thing you have been saying. I agree with you on spreading rumors is bad, but IT IS NOT as bad as PETA, at least right now.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

You should read some of the PM's between me 1I yesterday. :shock: 

I believe the biggest risks to hunting is hunters themselves, just as I believe the biggest risk to freedom is Americans themselves. When hunters try and shut down one form of hunting they are opening the door to stop ALL forms of hunting.


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> You should read some of the PM's between me 1I yesterday. :shock:
> 
> I believe the biggest risks to hunting is hunters themselves, just as I believe the biggest risk to freedom is Americans themselves. When hunters try and shut down one form of hunting they are opening the door to stop ALL forms of hunting.


You do make good points which quite frankly pisses me off, it makes it tough to counter. :lol: 8)


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

jahan said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > You should read some of the PM's between me 1I yesterday. :shock:
> ...


 *(())*


----------



## seniorsetterguy (Sep 22, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> You should read some of the PM's between me 1I yesterday. :shock:
> 
> I believe the biggest risks to hunting is hunters themselves, just as I believe the biggest risk to freedom is Americans themselves. When hunters try and shut down one form of hunting they are opening the door to stop ALL forms of hunting.


I don't agree completely with this comment. Most hunting rules and regulations are aimed at shutting down some "form of hunting" in order to maintain ethics and manage game populations. Poaching is a form of hunting, and hunters work to shut it down...because it's illegal and unethical. I believe the ongoing discussion about whether expensive, guided hunts -- which enhance the purchaser's chances of taking the animal (thus decreasing the chance of the animal surviving) are ethical, or good for hunting -- are worthwhile discussions. And there are good, reasonable people (only a few jerks) on either side.

Frankly, I fear the incivility and lack of respect we show for each other in online discussions much more than I fear that PETA will gain some advantage from eavesdropping on hunters' disagreements.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

seniorsetterguy said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > You should read some of the PM's between me 1I yesterday. :shock:
> ...


I am fine with people discussing 'ethics', but when MANY on here spread LIES, repeat rumors, make unsupported claims of poor hunting practices, it DOES hurt ALL hunters and hunting in general. Disagreements is one thing, distortion of facts is another!


----------



## girlsfishtoo (Feb 5, 2008)

"To each his own!!!"


----------



## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Renegade said:
> 
> 
> > Cannibals & Useful Idiots By John Wasmuth.
> ...


This made a lot of sense to me. I think there is a lot of greed going on that is closing out hunting opportunities to the many, and increasing quality for the few. If a CWMU has 15 square mile sections already, and then they are allowed to include a BLM section that was previously open to public, that seems greedy. If it continues this way and the public continue to lose out on opportunities, they will not "stick together" anymore. If I see my opportunities to hunt continue to go away, I'm not fighting PETA.


----------



## seniorsetterguy (Sep 22, 2007)

[quote="proutdoors] I am fine with people discussing 'ethics', but when MANY on here spread LIES, repeat rumors, make unsupported claims of poor hunting practices, it DOES hurt ALL hunters and hunting in general. Disagreements is one thing, distortion of facts is another![/quote]

It's all in your point of view: I see unsupported claims and apparent distortions going both directions. Chill out bruthas!


----------



## UintaMan (Sep 16, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> #1DEER 1-I said:
> 
> 
> > And to reply to your original post of "all hunters should stick together" I'm for that but I won't stand by hunters who give hunting a bad name and a name that gives activists more support.
> ...


WHEN DON'T YOU AGREE WITH YOUR LITTLE BOYFRIEND? :roll:


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

UintaMan said:


> WHEN DON'T YOU AGREE WITH YOUR LITTLE BOYFRIEND? :roll:


Real classy, what are you 12?


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> WHEN DON'T YOU AGREE WITH YOUR LITTLE BOYFRIEND?


 -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O-

Pro thinks I'm a pinhead for liking the UTES.  Uintaman you need to grow up a little.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> UintaMan said:
> 
> 
> > WHEN DON'T YOU AGREE WITH YOUR LITTLE BOYFRIEND? :roll:
> ...


He must be 13...coyote is 12.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> [ Uintaman you need to grow up a little.


Now if that ain't ironic....


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> coyoteslayer said:
> 
> 
> > [ Uintaman you need to grow up a little.
> ...


Are you saying you agree with UintaMan's comments? If so, is that 'ethical' and 'fair'? :shock: :wink:


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> wyoming2utah said:
> 
> 
> > coyoteslayer said:
> ...


NO. I am saying it is very ironic that Coyote is calling someone out for being childish. That is ironic because the ol' kettle is calling the pot black!


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Criminy guys. I'm locking down this one too. Its going no where. Can't we just get along?


----------

