# Older/cheaper vs. Newer(more expensive)/less problems



## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I would really like to get a truck. I have my heart set on a 1/2 ton Chevy. Question is- do I get one that is a few years older, but less expensive, and be able to afford it sooner, or should I wait until we finish our lease on our car that we have now, and get a newer and nicer one that probably won't have as many issues? I know this is largely a matter of personal opinion, but which would be the smarter option?


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

I'd say if you're fairly handy. Change breaks, and sparkplugs and that kind of stuff, go for the used one. But if you can't change a flat, better go with the warranty.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Orvis1=Mecahnical retard..... I always get the new one with a warranty but that is me....


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The age-old question we've all been through. I've bought used and got screaming deals on vehicles that never needed repairs beyond general maintenance which I do myself. I've bought used cars that I spent thousands of dollars on to keep going. Its a crap-shoot at best. A brand new truck though - they cost more than my first house. I have a Toyota Corolla I bought as a salvage-rebuild - saved about $7,000 on a car with only 4,500 miles on it. It drives like a dream and I don't regret that one bit. My buddy bought one the same time I did, in the same circumstances, and has spent about $4k in repairs in the same amount of time. My explorer I bought when it had 80K miles on it. I've put another 100K miles on it and replaced tires, brakes, and one battery and it still drives great. I bought a used Chrysler van for my wife and spent about $2,500/year on repairs every year we owned it - so when I replaced it, I bought her a new Toyota Sienna van and have had no problems. 

If you buy used - some things to look for:
Check the seal between the engine and tranny from underneath - look for any leaks. Also check for any leaks/residue around each spark plug
Look at any parts for hand painted markings - usually indicates they replaced parts with something from a salvage lot - not necessarily a bad thing - just something to look for.
Check back side of tire rims for any brake fluid residue/leaks.
Check front tires for un-even wear - could be alignement issues or reflect bent frame
Make sure all four tires match
On a truck or any 4x4 - check for signs of abuse - dented differential cases, bent leaf springs, crunched wheel wells, broken protective flaps under the engine, indentations in the rims, dents or holes in the muffler, those kinds of things. 
If you are buying from the owner (not a car lot) start telling the guy hunting stories and get him to offer up "that one time I got this thing stuck......." or "You wouldn't believe this hill we climbed - over all sorts of huge rocks....." or "Yea, the book says it will only tow 4,000 pounds, but I pulled that fifth-wheel, four wheelers and a boat up parleys and it never dropped below 70!" Nice stories but red flags if you want to know how its been treated.

Good luck.


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## scott_rn (Sep 11, 2007)

My dad bought a suburban a few years ago with 100k on it and has paid for it 3 times over in maint. 
Personally, I think 4X4's have less life in them and cost more to maintain, so I vote to save for a new(er) truck. 
If you were buying a 2X or a car it would be a whole different issue.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have tinkered with this question fairly extensively and found that the best long-term deal is the one year old vehicle (based on numerous assumptions of value once you reach 100k miles and the used car prices, which varies greatly). The problem is that Gary aloready showed us how two cars under the exact same conditions can operated very differently, no way of knowing which one, helps to at least have the odds on your side by at least looking at Consumer Reports, truth be told that no matter how you slice and dice it, overall Ford has more reliable trucks than GM, certain years may be the exception, but overall Ford has better ratings in several different criteria. Not trying to convince you of anything, but you may want to keep your options open and use some objective info instead of the propaganda for 1eye and the GM lovers, I'm sure fatbass will have something to say... :wink: 
I would stick with KSL and avoid used dealers like the plague, in many cases the trucks are traded in because they would be embarrassed to have to try to sell it to someone...also there are some that are very nice, but the seller hates the hassle of trying to sell it themselves. From a financial perspective, I think used makes a lot more sense, how used and old is the $1M question... Good Luck!


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

I bought my 2000 3/4 ton silverado in 2002. It was lease trade in and I think I got a pretty great deal. Been driving the same truck since without problem one. Now I probably won't get it started in the morning for saying that. It is a crap shoot but I have a hard time with the instant depreciation of a new vehicle the minute it leaves the lot!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

fatbass said:


> Some of the best older trucks that I have been experienced with had HIGH miles but most came from extended highway usage. I'd rather have a 2 year old truck with 130k and a maintenance and repair record than a 5 year old truck with 60k of city driving and no maintenance record. Avoid a used "company" truck. :lol:


My previous vehicle was a Ranger that I bought 5 years old with 100k miles driving mainly from Park City to SLC, I put another 100k miles on it with no serious repairs at all, two clutches (I consider routine maintenance, the second one was covered 100% on warranty) and a battery. Original starter, alternator, etc. It worked really well, if a teenager got it after me I'm sure that it would have lasted a month, but knowing all of the pecularities, I could have taken it another 100k. That guy was in his late 50's, I could tell that he was one who would take good care of the truck and he had had it since new.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So what do you think of the option to lease a new one, with the intention of buying it out at the end?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think the lease does not make any sense in most scenarios, about the only one that it does is for a person who must have a new vehicle every 2-3 years and can keep within the mileage limit, but who *must* have a new one every two years? It is generally much more economical to not pay top dollar for a very quickly depreciating piece of property. 
I just returned my leased vehicle about a month ago, that one made sense only because it was a $37k vehicle $299/month for two years and only $1,500 down, which they gave me credit on trade in of a vehicle worth less than $1,500. Most truck lease payments will be closer to $500-$600 with only 12k miles/year and about $3k down. With those assumptions on a $39k (I was looking at an F150 Supercrew Lariat) stickered truck you owe/buyout price is about $24k after 2 years (62% of sticker price, regardless of actual negotiated purchase price used for the lease or possible purchase price). Whereas, if you purchased the same vehicle purchased for $29k (that was the sales price net of all rebates) and bought with a loan from any bank just not from Ford Credit you would only owe about $21k at the end of two years. Of course, the big difference is that the lease payment would have been about $20 less than a loan payment, the loan payment would have been about $473, but in the long run, if you are determined to buyout the vehicle the purchase would have been way better in this circumstance, not to mention that the $2k down payment would have reduced your loan payment to be about equal and have even a lower loan balance than $21k. Give us the figures that you are considering and I could give you my $0.02. Personally, I ended up buying a 4-year old vehicle for $16k vs the new one for $29k...


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Well as far as buying goes- my credit union offers auto loans at 5.9% for 60 or 72 months, but the vehicle must not be more than 4 years old. Now if I did an older truck, say a 98 or 99, the rate would be 9.9%, but for 36 months, which makes the payments fairly high (not too far off of the newer option), but at least you pay it off in half the time. I just don't want to be fixing a truck that I am already paying quite a bit for each month. I guess that is where the trade-off lies- either pay a little less in monthly payments and risk having to pay out for repairs, or pay a little more, have a possible warranty IF something does go wrong. I personally don't have the time to be doing repairs on vehicles, and certainly can't afford to be fixing it stuff at a shop, so I guess I'd better be getting me a newer truck.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Thoughts on the Nissan Titan?


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

ChaserOfAllBirds said:


> Thoughts on the Nissan Titan?


Yees, Thats my next truck. My friend has a 06 Titan, and that thing has some balls. Pulls a trailer without a problem, gets 20-24 mpg & hasnt had one bit of problem with it. I have had a frontier for the last 6 years, now that its paid for Im thinking seriously about moving up to the titan. Im just a little bit afraid of the 40K price tag on some of them. Some days I think to myself might as well go with a diesel for that kind of money :shock: . When it comes to dependability, you cant beat Nissan or Toyota.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

STEVO said:


> ChaserOfAllBirds said:
> 
> 
> > Thoughts on the Nissan Titan?
> ...


If you are interested; here is a Titan repo at a CU in Price. http://euccu.com/auction.asp?passid=2007titan They have had it for over 3 months, so maybe they are ready to make a deal...

I have a very hard time believing 20-24 mpg, I call BS, I got 20mpg once... Consumer Reports rates the Titan at 13 mpg-same as all of the others... My last impression from Nissan was that they had a lot of problems, especially with trucks, specifically the Pathfinder and Xterra. Consumer Reports 2007 report lists the Titan as 7th place out of 8 truck mfgrs biggest issue being predicted reliability, only one worse was Dodge-take that Fatbass j/k. Of the 17 criteria they look at the 2004 had the worse possible rating (solid circle) on 6 of those in 2004; the first model year and not a whole lot better in 2005; obviously any mfgr has to work out the kinks on a newer model. I don't mean this to sound negative, those are just the facts as presented by Consumer Reports, this report is a little dated.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

That has been my concern with the Titan. Too new of a model to have all the issues resolved. My boss has a 2004, and loves it. They are really comfortable, and plush on the interior. Being a valet I drive all kinds of stuff, so I know they are nice looking and have some balls, but I am more concerned with the numbers and kinds of problems these different trucks have had. I just want to reduce the chances of buying a lemon as much as possible. My dad has a '94 Silverado 1/2 ton, and really hasn't had many problems with it until recently, and even then, they haven't been major issues. A gasket here and there, maybe a motor for one thing or another. I guess one should expect problems to start happening to a 14 year old truck. If I knew it would be like my dad's truck, I'd buy it in a second. I just don't want to be paying $300 a month for it, and be fixing things left and right also.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Many years ago I read a study published by a national consumer advocate organization. The jist of the study was that the most economical way to purchase a vehicle considering all the factors like maintenence, depreciation, resale, etc. is to buy new, run it into the ground then buy new again.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

There are good arguments for both, but here's something to consider: The current difficulties with the economy have changed the value proposition of a new truck to some extent. Many brands offer 0% financing for 60 months, including on Chevy half ton trucks. On $30,000, that's going to be pushing $9000 in interest savings. If you buy used and finance, you'll always pay interest and in some cases (like the buying of a 1-year-old vehicle) the price + interest may be just as high as a new truck. I've even seen Dodge offering 0% for 72 months lately. Those kind of deals help to offset the initial price/depreciation of buying new, and there are no unknowns about how the vehicle has been treated by the original owner.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

That's a really good point Thresh! I guess you just can't be afraid of pulling out the calculator and doing a little math when buying a car.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Good point Sharkie, however the key is to not ever get emotionally attached, once that happens U R done. Dave Ramsey reports that about 2/3rds of the folks who decide to get a new car motivated primarily by 0% interest end up still buying a car, but do not qualify for 0%, they are just so far into the process before finding that out that they still proceed. Lifetime drivetrain warranty is a nice incentive too. Generally the rebates work out to be a hair better than taking the 0%, but it all depends on the financing obtained elsewhere. I find that it helps to tinker with the figures a lot and do not get in a hurry, those seem to be the best long-term decisions. If the dealer says that this deal is only for today, first he is lying because his lips are moving and secondly, why would a deal be any different tomorrow if it is a legit deal? They simply realize that nearly 90% of the people who plan to come back tomorrow don't.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

On that note, walking away is an amazing tool. When I was buying my wife's minivan (first brand new car we ever bought), I worked with the internet sales reps from all the Toyota dealers on the Wasatch Front. I was able to take each one's deal, forward it to another rep, and say "can you beat this one?" I got two dealers in a bidding war and that dropped the price another $3K. It also kept me away from being held "hostage" in the dealership while the sales guy, your new best friend, is in a back room "trying to talk the sales manager" into helping him out on this one. What a crock. They are in a room with a play station talking about how to screw you out of another $1000 bucks on the "rustproof extended flat tire warranty" that normally goes for $3000 but they are swinging you a deal. Yea. Right. BOHICA. You've got to do your homework on all aspects so you know the real price, and know your financing options - be it through the car company, or your own bank/credit union. 

But good rules: 
car sales guys are not your friends.
car sales guys lie. 
car sales guys will do anything to get more money from you.
car sales guys lie. 
And lastly, car sales guys lie.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> But good rules:
> car sales guys are not your friends.
> car sales guys lie.
> car sales guys will do anything to get more money from you.
> ...


That was a little harsh!  They only lie when their lips are moving, so you were exaggerating a little bit. Many dealerships will no longer give a written quote due to being shopped against...If you are desperate enough to be looking for a GM or Dodge, tell LHM to go somewhere, biggest scammer around (in my experience)...go to Dale Smith in Kellog, ID. They are the biggest Dodge dealership in the nation, I believe. The deals are usually so great that you get a one-way ticket to Spokane, pick you up and you drive home, must be pretty good deal. Most local dealerships tell you right up front that they can not even try to match a deal from them...


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