# Fear mongering stupid proposals!!!



## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

lets stop all these stupid posts about supposed proposals taking away marsh rights and what not and splitting people up against eachother,, boaters vs. footsoldiers,, guides vs. the averag joe ..etc....Its like these gun and ammo companies trying to spread fear about obama taking your guns to help boost sales...which have sky rocketed by the way. Obama being elected is what these companies prayed for,, seriously.. but thats neither here nor there... There is a ton of room in utah marshes and we have it so well here and lets not spoil it and bicker about it and just be thankful,, and seriously try and help it by doing volunteer stuff and what not..myself included,, I take advantage of what we have here and need to get more involved,, nesting projects and so on...serious summer cabin fever is setting in, and these posts are proving it...I mean heidi and spencer are on the verge of breaking up,,we have enough to worry about..only a few of you might get that last bit and thats a good thing...


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I must be among the forunate since I have no idea who the he*l Heidi and Spencer are!


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## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

amen


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

shootemup said:


> amen


+1


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I agree, Im sick of reading these dam thing. mostley when they dont mean crap or they wount even pass.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

While I dislike the fear mongering and I hate the hunter vs hunter, it is important to keep the issues on the table. We each have ideas on what will make things better. There is going to be good and bad proposals, but if they are never brought to the table and discussed we will never find the good. The ultimate goal is the birds welfare and trying to keep everything else in balance. The leaders need to remember they represent many different types of individuals and styles of hunting. Personally I know that things will change and it will not always be the way that I like it. But the one thing that scares me most is not being able to grab the gun and dog on a moments notices and go for a walk and maybe pickup a bird or two.


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## goosegambler (Mar 31, 2009)

The only reason people think these proposals are stupid is they disagree with them and that's the only reason. Stupid is doing nothing to try to make things better, while we continue to wait until things problems are out of control, Phragmites prime example, before we act. Why not try to address potential problems before they become problems. We are loosing hunters every year and I believe its because the quality is declining, just my opinion. For those lucky few that think its better than it was ten years ago, good for you. I think people that can afford to join a club have done so because they grew tired of the crowds, its better hunting because they have rules at clubs, rest days, rest ponds, blinds and a travel system that helps keep birds around. These same types of practices can be applied to public land they are called restrictions/rules and they work for them. Most people who join clubs want to get away from the discourteous and obnoxious hunters that frequent the marshes, if we all had a little more respect then it would be better out there but unfortunately that can't be fixed without making some more rules, again my opinion. As to the fear mongering, I am more afraid of some of the decisions that have been made or tried to be made to improve the quality by our state. Examples: Road to Rainbow Unit, Goose split in October, Pintail Lake motorized, Unit three of Ogden bay opened, to name a few. I think as hunters we need more ideas and discussions of these ideas and for those that only want it their way, grow up and shut up, please. Small compromises can be made and a plan that helps everyone can be reached if we can drop the egos and get to the negotiation table.


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## stucknmud (Dec 2, 2008)

goosegambler said:


> I think as hunters we need more ideas and discussions of these ideas and for those that only want it their way, grow up and shut up, please.


Okay but only because you said please...I agree that ideas and discussions are good, however it seems like a lot of these ideas are coming from certain individuals wanting it "their way". I have only been a waterfowler for a couple of seasons and I think we have it pretty good but then again I don't know how it was in the good ol' days.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

goosegambler said:


> I think people that can afford to join a club have done so because they grew tired of the crowds, its better hunting because they have rules at clubs, rest days, rest ponds, blinds and a travel system that helps keep birds around.


Lets not kid ourselves. Those gun clubs are better because of the dollars they throw at them. Have each hunter who shoots the "Public Shooting Grounds" pony up the same dollars as some of these gun clubs and you will have better hunting. You are comparing apples and oranges.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> Lets not kid ourselves. Those gun clubs are better because of the dollars they throw at them. Have each hunter who shoots the "Public Shooting Grounds" pony up the same dollars as some of these gun clubs and you will have better hunting. You are comparing apples and oranges.


+1.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

The clubs are not all that great.I have been in a couple clubs and the only good thing about them. i could run out and hunt after school and got a blind. it might not be the blind I wanted but I got a blind. But I could do the on are wma to.

[/quote]

Have each hunter who shoots the "Public Shooting Grounds" pony up the same dollars .[/quote]

If you want that I would do farmington bay. More money. Pluse if you are going to do that you better start charging bird watchers.every time they go out there to see the eagles and so on. we already pay my dues for are marsh. By buying my lincs, duck stamp. Bird watchers get to use that at a free a charge.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

dkhntrdstn said:


> The clubs are not all that great.I have been in a couple clubs and the only good thing about them. i could run out and hunt after school and got a blind. it might not be the blind I wanted but I got a blind. But I could do the on are wma to.





Huntoholic said:


> Have each hunter who shoots the "Public Shooting Grounds" pony up the same dollars .





dkhntrdstn said:


> If you want that I would do farmington bay. More money. Pluse if you are going to do that you better start charging bird watchers.every time they go out there to see the eagles and so on. we already pay my dues for are marsh. By buying my lincs, duck stamp. Bird watchers get to use that at a free a charge.


You missed the point. 
You can not compare a 100 acre plot that has thousands of dollars thrown at it (to be used solely on that 100 acres) and any public ground with a much lower expended dollar and expect it to be the same.

I just got a report from the DWR on the number of duck hunters. The report goes from 1946 to 2006 and since 1998 a pretty much down ward trend. How can we have more crowded marshes with less people hunting?


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

thats an interesting stat hunoholic
not to say you are wrong, or they are wrong, but in ten years the public places i hunt, i have seen the crowds increase a lot.
i wonder if the stat from the dwr is a percentage of the population, or a straight number of hunters.


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## stucknmud (Dec 2, 2008)

Huntoholic said:


> I just got a report from the DWR on the number of duck hunters. The report goes from 1946 to 2006 and since 1998 a pretty much down ward trend. How can we have more crowded marshes with less people hunting?


Just curious, does your report say how many duck hunters for 2008 in Utah?? It seems over the past few years FB gets a few more hunters everytime I go. Maybe people are running out of other resources and places to hunt and their all getting pushed to the WMA's??


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > The clubs are not all that great.I have been in a couple clubs and the only good thing about them. i could run out and hunt after school and got a blind. it might not be the blind I wanted but I got a blind. But I could do the on are wma to.
> ...


If you want that I would do farmington bay. More money. Pluse if you are going to do that you better start charging bird watchers.every time they go out there to see the eagles and so on. we already pay my dues for are marsh. By buying my lincs, duck stamp. Bird watchers get to use that at a free a charge.[/quote]

You missed the point. 
You can not compare a 100 acre plot that has thousands of dollars thrown at it (to be used solely on that 100 acres) and any public ground with a much lower expended dollar and expect it to be the same.

I just got a report from the DWR on the number of duck hunters. The report goes from 1946 to 2006 and since 1998 a pretty much down ward trend. How can we have more crowded marshes with less people hunting?[/quote]

Ok maybe I did miss the point and if that the case sorry.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

deadicated1 said:


> thats an interesting stat hunoholic
> not to say you are wrong, or they are wrong, but in ten years the public places i hunt, i have seen the crowds increase a lot.
> i wonder if the stat from the dwr is a percentage of the population, or a straight number of hunters.


Straight number. Broke down by Adult, Juvenile, and Total. All I did was E-mail the DWR and asked for it. They responded with in hours.

There are a lot of reasons why things appear to be the way they are. Low water for one will push birds and hunters tighter together. Even after the water comes back up people and the birds take a while to change their habits. This report is an excel spread sheet and easy to read. Gas is another reason why people are staying close to home. The fact is there are less hunters and there is no need to put a bunch of regs in place to limit hunting when if the same dollars were spent to improve what we have the out come would be better.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

stucknmud said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a report from the DWR on the number of duck hunters. The report goes from 1946 to 2006 and since 1998 a pretty much down ward trend. How can we have more crowded marshes with less people hunting?
> ...


I think you are seeing more people at FB is because it so close to home and they can just walk down the sky busting dike and get a chance at a duck with out working hard and spending some money on decoys,waders,dog and so on. They can hit it first thing in the morning intell 10:00 or 11:00 and then go home and watch football the rest of the day. And like said if above Gas has a big part in pushing more people together.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

stucknmud said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a report from the DWR on the number of duck hunters. The report goes from 1946 to 2006 and since 1998 a pretty much down ward trend. How can we have more crowded marshes with less people hunting?
> ...


The report does not have 07 or 08. Like I said there are lots of reasons the close in WMA may be getting hit, i.e. gas, loss of water. Those are cyclic issues and they will always happen in Utah. You are going to have Peaks and Valleys. It just seems to me that if a hunt like the duck hunt is getting hit as bad as some say, that the ducks will just move to an area that has less pressure. Ya got to hunt were the birds want to be and it changes with the conditions.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

dkhntrdstn said:


> Ok maybe I did miss the point and if that the case sorry.


No harm, No fowl. :shock:

Personally I like it when everybody runs to FB. It leaves the rest for me.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I like it when everybody runs to FB. It leaves the rest for me.


I have to agree with you. It leave my place alone and the hunting is pretty good.


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## goosegambler (Mar 31, 2009)

Huntoholic said:


> goosegambler said:
> 
> 
> > I think people that can afford to join a club have done so because they grew tired of the crowds, its better hunting because they have rules at clubs, rest days, rest ponds, blinds and a travel system that helps keep birds around.
> ...


But Huntoholic, the point I am trying to make. we as waterfowlers have to govern our selves with proposals. because if we leave it up to the state we will be left empty handed, they are watching out for the revenue not the quality.


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

huntoholic,

did the report you got say anything about the frequency of hunters? what i mean by that is we may have less hunters as far as license sales. which i have seen info relating that. but what about how often individuals go. from what i have heard in the old days is we had more hunters afield but they only went a few times. with me i am not that way. i go every chance i get which means im in the field alot more. i couldnt agree more with your observations. good posts!!


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> If you want that I would do farmington bay. More money. Pluse if you are going to do that you better start charging bird watchers.every time they go out there to see the eagles and so on. we already pay my dues for are marsh. By buying my lincs, duck stamp. Bird watchers get to use that at a free a charge.


Yesterday at the pharq meeting at FB we discussed requiring all people who enter the WMA's to pay an entrance fee as a means of funding the management of the pharq problem, the DNR CAN NOT do this!!! Reason--As soon as they charge a entrance fee they loss matching federal funds which if I remember right is a 75% Federal/25% State ratio, so its not economically feasible for the state to implement that.

All moneys generated by the sale of special licenses such as a state duck stamp would go into the general fund and following the current funds distribution trends of the DNR that money would benefit big game more than waterfowl.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

goosegambler said:


> But Huntoholic, the point I am trying to make. we as waterfowlers have to govern our selves with proposals. because if we leave it up to the state we will be left empty handed, they are watching out for the revenue not the quality.


Revenue is a factor yes. You can not expect the person managing the WMA to work miracles when you give them very little. You can not compare him to the person who has a bigger budget and smaller area to work with/in. Govern ourselves yes, but don't expect to spend a dollar and get the same results as the guy that spends 1,000 dollars.

If we take care of the habitat the rest will fall into place. You don't get something for nothing. Instead of fighting with each other, spending all our money and effort coming up with proposals to limit our time in the field, we spent that time in the off season taking care of the WMA under the management of the experts, I think you would see an increase in birds and people spreading out and utilizing what we already have which would equal less crowding. FB will always have more people than PSG. Why would you expect it to be different. You want a quick hunt you go to FB. You want to be by yourself you go to Fish Springs.

Habitat is were it is at.


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> Habitat is were it is at.


i could not agree more. it seems many are so quick to run to the idea that if we just start limiting the masses this way or that way then our problem will be curtailed and we will be happier. only to see our habitat slowly and surely go into a bigger peril than it already is. starting at the root of the problem will yield the best long term results. imho

i do agree that we need to be proactive to management on our marshes. how we do that is certainly up for debate.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > If you want that I would do farmington bay. More money. Pluse if you are going to do that you better start charging bird watchers.every time they go out there to see the eagles and so on. we already pay my dues for are marsh. By buying my lincs, duck stamp. Bird watchers get to use that at a free a charge.
> ...


I for got about that meeting last night. That was said in anotehr meeting I went to. I was just trying to make a point.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

kingfish said:


> huntoholic,
> 
> did the report you got say anything about the frequency of hunters? what i mean by that is we may have less hunters as far as license sales. which i have seen info relating that. but what about how often individuals go. from what i have heard in the old days is we had more hunters afield but they only went a few times. with me i am not that way. i go every chance i get which means im in the field alot more. i couldnt agree more with your observations. good posts!!


It did not give days in the field.

The old rule of thumb that I was taught was of the hunters that went out on opening weekend, 50% only hunted that weekend. Of the remaining 50% only half of them hunted past the 2nd weekend. The remaining hunters (25% of the opening day crowd) hunted the remaining part of the season. That 25% went down slowly based on the weather.

All I know is that of the WMA's that I hunt, after the first two weekends, I don't see the crowds that people are up in arms about. Because of work, the times I get to go are limited. Most of the time it is on a Friday or Saturday. I don't want another hunt that I have to schedule 6 months in advance just to hunt.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

kingfish said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > Habitat is were it is at.
> ...


I don't think it is a debate as much as it is identifing what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, how much money does it cost and who is going to do it. I believe each manager of a WMA is proud of their areas. They know what needs to be done. We need to give them a chance and trust them. If it does not work out we can camp on the directors desk. We as sportsman need to be a help to them and not an invasive weed.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> I for got about that meeting last night. That was said in anotehr meeting I went to. I was just trying to make a point.


I'm not taking a poke at you personally Dustin 8) , just making a point myself.

IMO judging from all the Bi**hing going on about hunt quality on the different forums it was apparent that a lot of people seem to have forgot about that meeting. :twisted: It never ceases to amaze me that all those armchair quarterbacks have the energy to run their mouths on the internet but can't seem to show up when it matters.

As for the fee info, I thought you probably had heard it before but I was mainly posting that up for all the members who can't seem to come to any meetings. :wink:

Lastly hate or love those proposals, if you don't show up at the meetings to voice your opinion you won't have any room to complain later when you don't agree with something that's pushed thru or shot down.


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> Lastly hate or love those proposals, if you don't show up at the meetings to voice your opinion you won't have any room to complain later when you don't agree with something that's pushed thru or shot down.


a key point you made! or in other words: the world is ran by those who show up!

if their is any grand idea or proposal/agenda to drasticaly change things it will have its time out in the open where it can be debated and considered. due process will take its course. and those of us who are passionate to do the best thing for all will stand united. i truely believe that!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > I for got about that meeting last night. That was said in anotehr meeting I went to. I was just trying to make a point.
> ...


Jimmy jimmy no worry man. I know you where not taking a poke at me. no big deal there. I got to start marking these dates down.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Huntoholic said:


> All I know is that of the WMA's that I hunt, after the first two weekends, I don't see the crowds that people are up in arms about. Because of work, the times I get to go are limited. Most of the time it is on a Friday or Saturday.


I agree Huntoholic. I don't get to go out as much as I used to when working with the state, mostly because I'm having to re-earn all that vacation time but when I do go, its weekends and the occasional "sick day". While I did see more people in the parking lots this past year, most don't go more than about five minutes in any direction from that lot, especially on foot so all the crowds are within a few hundred yards of their car. YOu get past that and all the people in the world clustered in one little area isn't going to affect your hunt unless you're just screwing something up. :? I think this whole "crowding" BS is about the same as the supposed crowding crap that some of the southern Utah bowhunters claim they're seeing.... just nonsense cooked up by guys who don't want to roll out of bed early enough to beat out the crowds or get far enough off the beaten path to get to where the animals are really hanging out.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Riverrat77 said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > All I know is that of the WMA's that I hunt, after the first two weekends, I don't see the crowds that people are up in arms about. Because of work, the times I get to go are limited. Most of the time it is on a Friday or Saturday.
> ...


Exactly. How can we have less hunters and more overcrowding?


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Mojo1 said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > I for got about that meeting last night. That was said in anotehr meeting I went to. I was just trying to make a point.
> ...


First of all, I'm not armchair quarterbacking. I'm a fellow hunter letting you know as a fellow hunter what my option is on some topics up for discussion.

Second, I'm sorry I can not fly in from Las Vegas to attend a meeting. Feeding my family comes first. If that makes me less of a sportsman so be it.

Third, IMO if people were really concerned what the average guy thought, then in this day and age of computers I can talk to guys on line on a computer, but we can not have the same formal meeting about ducks online.

I use to be more involved than I am today. But seriously I got so discouraged with the behind the scenes stuff that I stopped. I give my option when asked (some times when I'm not), and let the cards fall. You younger guys are the ones that are going to pay. Personally I've hunted during some of the best times ever.


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