# land ownner tag question



## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

Hello all, I signed up to hopefully gain some more knowledge of hunting on my families property in southern Utah.

My grandfather has roughly 4900 acres if I'm not mistaken. I used to hunt actively with my father in Utah every year before college. Now I'm back in Las Vegas and haven't gone for about 5 years. My father tells me stories of hunting my grandfathers land back in the day all the time, only problem is he's not allowed any more, divorce.

I want to start going again though, my cousin says every year they have been getting 3 land owners tags but haven't been filling them, so that's where I come in. I think this year we are going to try and get more. Utah says for every 640 acres you can get 1 big game land owners tag.

I have a brand new Mathews z7 extreme, spot Hogg it sight, carbon arrows (forget name off top of my head), etch. Only problem is I haven't used them, and haven't shot since high school when I shot a Mathews switchback, I was quite good could shoot up to 80yds accurately although I would never try to kill at that distance.

My questions are-

1.are the land owners big game tags good for elk? I read that the tag is good for all big game- mule, elk etch. Found here 3rd one from top
http://www.bing.com/search?q=how+many+acres+are+needed+for+landowner+elk+tags+in+utah&FORM=O1HV1

2. Do I have to designate what hunt I want? Or can I switch between archery, rifle, and back powder with season designations?

Thanks, my name is Justin by the way.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Welcome Justin! I am not familiar with the topic, but I am sure that someone here can offer some incite.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

You need to go to the DWR and ask them. I know they have forms and applications for you or the land owner to fill out. I would think it would be just one season per species.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

It says everything here-
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-043.htm#T5

Only problem is I don't fully understand it. I candy just go to the DWR seeing as I live about 150mi away from the closest one. Maybe tomorrow I will give them a call. I just figured someone on here would have some insight.


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## pelican (Mar 29, 2012)

Just owning land will not get you landowner permits. They actually need to be doing damage and your land needs to be sustaining them. You could only be getting three because the Dwr biologist figures that's what your land is worth. You could also be eligible for mor. You just need to fill out the papers and go from there.


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## pelican (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh....you only get the permits per species. I can get deer tags, but not elk. My buddy gets about 12 deer tags but only one elk. Another gets four or five elk but no deer.


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## jimmy_hat (Feb 8, 2014)

Do you sell your tags pelican? Is there any good bucks on your land?


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## pelican (Mar 29, 2012)

I've never got any. Our deer herds need all the help they can get. I looked into it in the beginning but decided not to. Predators are my main focus. I hint them constantly.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

pelican said:


> Just owning land will not get you landowner permits. They actually need to be doing damage and your land needs to be sustaining them. You could only be getting three because the Dwr biologist figures that's what your land is worth. You could also be eligible for mor. You just need to fill out the papers and go from there.


 I went to college in cedar, right out of cedar breaks where our land is, we boarder from behind Navajo about 5 miles in to the first cabin and about 9 to the last.

When in college I went to dwr and they said we listed 2200 acres 2 years prior and got 3 buck tags. I know for positive my cousin got 3 tags last year as well and was unable to fill them. This year my cousin and I plan to list all 4900 acres and get as many tags possible.

I just ask the elk question because we have multiple herds on our property as well as multiple on the properties surrounding us. I'm fairly good at calling them in so id hope to get a good shot as long as I have a tag. Last time I went bunting I had a 6x6 at 43yds broadside and was unable to take the shot because I only had a buck tag.

I will call tomorrow and find out about an elk tag.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

pelican said:


> Oh....you only get the permits per species. I can get deer tags, but not elk. My buddy gets about 12 deer tags but only one elk. Another gets four or five elk but no deer.


so it is per species they give tags cool, that's 1 question down.

Do you know if I can use the tag through different seasons?

In Colorado land owners get longer seasons, is that the case in Utah as well?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

jdenney741 said:


> I went to college in cedar, right out of cedar breaks where our land is, we boarder from behind Navajo about 5 miles in to the first cabin and about 9 to the last.
> 
> When in college I went to dwr and they said we listed 2200 acres 2 years prior and got 3 buck tags. I know for positive my cousin got 3 tags last year as well and was unable to fill them. This year my cousin and I plan to list all 4900 acres and get as many tags possible.
> .


I'm a little confused by what your trying to do. You say that your cousin couldn't get three
"Immediate family" members to hunt last year but now you want to get as many as possible.
I think you need to re-read the rules. 
With these land owner tags, only "Immediate family" members can hunt with them and it's only for the general season.


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## pelican (Mar 29, 2012)

Unless these are depredation permits he is after. Then those are setup to where they can be sold to cover damage caused by the animals, and the landowner or person in charge of the land can sell or give those vouchers to anyone. But the hunter then needs to still pay the DWR the fee for that permit, same price as a general season permit. I think that's how it works. 

I understand he said landowner tags, but that can be a general term.If they couldn't fill three permits, I dont think you have a problem with them destroying land, busting up hay bales or anything that would cause the DWR to give you those permits. 

I understand that since drawing a permit is tough you are looking for other options, and you may be able to figure out a way to get the state to give more permits, but from what you've written here, I don't know why they even give out the first three. Is it farmed land? 
I only looked into it, I was just going to give the permits to youth hunters, so I am sure there are details I don't know. Call them today and they'll answer your questions. Driving two hours to visit the DWR is nothing if it meant you were able to hunt as a non-resident..


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

ridgetop said:


> I'm a little confused by what your trying to do. You say that your cousin couldn't get three
> "Immediate family" members to hunt last year but now you want to get as many as possible.
> I think you need to re-read the rules.
> With these land owner tags, only "Immediate family" members can hunt with them and it's only for the general season.


because more of us want to hunt, and if there were a chance of getting them filled we would want appropriate tags for this.

Immediate family member in the rules lists- children up to grandchildren. Also if he chooses to let non family hunters on the property he can give 1 tag away for every 1 public hunter he allows on his land or file a variance. To tell the truth he doesn't mind if people hunt his land as long as they ask and stay 1/2 mi away from the cabin and runway


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

pelican said:


> Unless these are depredation permits he is after. Then those are setup to where they can be sold to cover damage caused by the animals, and the landowner or person in charge of the land can sell or give those vouchers to anyone. But the hunter then needs to still pay the DWR the fee for that permit, same price as a general season permit. I think that's how it works.
> 
> I understand he said landowner tags, but that can be a general term.If they couldn't fill three permits, I dont think you have a problem with them destroying land, busting up hay bales or anything that would cause the DWR to give you those permits.
> 
> ...


 no this is not farmed land, its is land that has been passed down since the early 1900's when a great grandfather was a sheep harder on the mountain.

I have never read anything about only getting a tag for destroyed land but that may be intent of some of this, idk, it says -this will be long

(1) Under authority of Sections 23-14-18 and 23-14-19, this rule provides the standards and procedures for private landowners to obtain landowner permits for:
(a) taking buck deer within the general unit hunt boundary area where the landowner's property is located during the general deer hunt only; and
(b) taking bull elk, buck deer or buck pronghorn within a limited entry unit.
(2) In addition to this rule, any person who receives a landowner permit must abide by Rule R657-5 and the guidebook of the Wildlife Board for taking big game.
(3) The intent of the general landowner buck deer permit is to provide an opportunity for landowners, lessees, or their immediate family, whose property provides habitat for deer, to purchase a general deer permit for the general unit hunt boundary area where the landowner's property is located.
(4) The intent of the limited entry landowner permit is to provide an opportunity for landowners, whose property provides habitat for deer, elk, or pronghorn, to be allocated a restricted number of permits for a limited entry bull elk, buck deer, or buck pronghorn unit, where the landowner's property is located. Allowing landowners a restricted number of permits:
(a) encourages landowners to manage their land for wildlife;
(b) compensates the landowner for providing private land as habitat for wildlife; and
(c) allows the division to increase big game numbers on specific units.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

As far as buck deer you can get 1 for every 640 acres of land.
Elk is a little different, it will depend upon several things and the type of tag you want. You could probably get cow tags for damage but I don't know if you have enough land in that unit for a bull tag, you do need to contact the DWR. The Cedar office is 435-865-6100.

But it will cost $10 for the transfer fee and then you have to purchase the tag.
If you want to hunt bulls your property is on an open bull unit and you can buy those over the counter. However it sounds like you are not a resident so I don't know how that works, whether when you buy the landowner tag if you have to pay non resident fees or not. That would be another question for DWR.


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## Kevinitis (Jul 18, 2013)

It almost sounds like the property is a CWMU, which in that case there might be different rules for those tags.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

Cwmu?


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Kevinitis said:


> It almost sounds like the property is a CWMU, which in that case there might be different rules for those tags.


They would have to be registered with the CWMU (Cooperative Wildlife Management Unit) program to do so. From what I've heard if it was they can't get landowner permits and hunt their own land. You waive those rights when enrolling in the CWMU program. CWMU owners can make a lot of money from selling their tags but loose the chance at hunting their land. It comes down to the choice between money or hunting...

I know for sure CWMU's can't let people (nor themselves) hunt spike bull during the general hunts on their land.

You would know if your grandfathers land is a CWMU or not.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

I highly doubt our family land is cwmu if it has to do with selling tags.my grandfather used to fly big execs in Vegas, lawyers, and doctors to his cabin to hunt in the 80's and 90's

My grandfather and family have never been into hunting themselves. Only a few started trying it out recently, I suspect the ones that do don't really hunt like most. I'd bet they stay fairly close to the cabins. 

I know of a few spots that I have gone to with my dad in the past.

Last time I went scouting I came across 3 bucks that I wish it was season for. It was a July afternoon and we were headed out for the day. One 4x4 and 2 5x5's with all having at least 27in spreads. I wish I could find the picture for you. 

We line the treeline just off the runway with salt licks, and have made a little pond for water. The dusk is perfect time off the porch, not only do you have the sunset but the deer just roam all over. 

Our cabin this summer will be going under the knife. So much focus fell on redoing our other property that the cabin has been falling apart, we just redid the road and will be up there quite a bit in the summer.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

So I called and this is what I found out. 

With our land for every 640 acres we list is 1 land owner buck tag. Elk tags are only depredation tags, and have to show damage of what they are doing. With dep tags you can only shoot antlerless elk as well. We do not qualify for dep tags since we do not farm.

With the land owner buck permit, when my grandfather fills out the forms upon receiving the tags he will designate who is hunting and what season the each tag will be used for. Mine archery and the rest for rifle. 

In Utah the tags ands seasons are the same length as the general public hunts, unlike Colorado. 

The only way for a land owner to get a bull elk tag is to go through the draw like every one else, which is good for the general public but kind of lame for the land owner, but its all equal in a sense of drawing.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's the land owner general deer info:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/general_landowner_application_packet.pdf

As far as a CWMU for bull elk, You do not meet the minimum acreage that is required..


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

jdenney741 said:


> The only way for a land owner to get a bull elk tag is to go through the draw like every one else, which is good for the general public but kind of lame for the land owner, but its all equal in a sense of drawing.


Your land is on the "Zion Any Bull unit" So you can buy an over the counter bull elk tag, however you would have to buy a non resident tag.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

bowgy said:


> Your land is on the "Zion Any Bull unit" So you can buy an over the counter bull elk tag, however you would have to buy a non resident tag.


I thought they did not do over the counter tags anymore? We have a house in cedar as well.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

> Resident means a person who has a fixed permanent home and principal establishment in Utah for _six consecutive months immediately preceding the purchase of a license or permit, AND DOES NOT claim residency for hunting, fishing or trapping in any other state or country._


If you're in Vegas, it doesn't matter whether your family owns a house in Cedar City or not. If you don't live in Utah for the previous 6 months you're not a resident.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

jdenney741 said:


> I thought they did not do over the counter tags anymore? We have a house in cedar as well.


What Fishrmn said, if you have a Utah drivers license with your Utah address you may be good to go but the any bull tags are pretty easy to get if you don't wait too long after they go on sale.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

This is the first year I have seen the bull tags sell out in a long time. Last year they were still selling them during the hunt.

If you need help filling your tags I will take as many as you want


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

Fishrmn said:


> If you're in Vegas, it doesn't matter whether your family owns a house in Cedar City or not. If you don't live in Utah for the previous 6 months you're not a resident.
> 
> ⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


yea I remember that from living there to get in state tuition in cedar.

Bull tags are sold out already? Or you mean this previous year?


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomElk16 said:


> This is the first year I have seen the bull tags sell out in a long time. Last year they were still selling them during the hunt.
> 
> If you need help filling your tags I will take as many as you want


well as its looking I will be only getting one of the tags, the others will be rifle. I love to hunt archery though even with rifle being easier. To me its about the hunt though.

If I can't get a bull tag that would suck. I'd love to have my father in law come up instead of going to Wyoming like he does ever year to hunt cows.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

The tags aren't on sale yet. I think Random elk is talking about last year. They aren't offered until the summer. If you buy the archery elk you can shoot a cow or a bull in your any bull area.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

jdenny, you can hunt with a bow during the rifle hunt. So, if you aren't worried about the animals being pressured by other hunters you can just bow hunt them then.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

torowy said:


> jdenny, you can hunt with a bow during the rifle hunt. So, if you aren't worried about the animals being pressured by other hunters you can just bow hunt them then.


you can? I thought when the rifle season started the bow season ended?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

What he is saying is that if you get an ANY WEAPON tag (typically called a rifle tag) that you can use your bow during this season. If you get an archery tag, then no you cannot use it during the any weapon season.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

Oh that's great. Yea with our land its so far back and we only have 2 other land owners around us, 1 on the north and 1 on the south. They don't hunt our land and we don't go on theirs.


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## jdenney741 (Feb 9, 2014)

Another question- can we get tags for blm leased land?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

jdenney741 said:


> Another question- can we get tags for blm leased land?


Depends, What do you want special use permits on BLM for?


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

jdenney741 said:


> Another question- can we get tags for blm leased land?


I am going to go out on a limb and say no, that is public land and even when you have grazing rights those are rights just for your animals and you will have a number of animal units allowed and a time limit for those animals to be on the land so you can't over feed and there will be enough feed for all other animals that forage on that land.


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