# FLY NOOB HAS NO IDEA



## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Hi folks. Along with my new GPS unit, I'm planning on having a fly rod built for me, but seeing how I don't know a thing about fly fishing or rods, reels, line, backing, tippets, blah, blah, blah.

My question is:

Besides the rod, what will I need to get and what do I look for in making my decisions?

For example: I want a reel that works, but looking at the display case at Sportsman's, I saw that fly reels are really expensive. What's a good reel that I can pick up for little $?

Is an arbor and a reel the same thing?

What is backing vs regular line? Or is that the same thing???

I know I've left out a lot of variables, but I don't know what size of rod I'm getting yet. I'm thinking longer than short and a medium weight.

I know I'm full of questions and some of you may be thinking "Go to a friggin' class", but I'd like to see what information/advice people are willing to offer this clueless noob.

Thanks for any help.


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## stupiddog (Jan 15, 2008)

As for the arbor. typically the larger arbor reel the better. This is the center of the reel the line winds around and the bigger it is the less memory your line retains theirfore less coil in your line. 
Backing is the line that attaches to the end of your fly line. your fly line is usually about 90 feet but if a fish pulls out more than 90 feet than instead of running out of line he pulls out your backing. It is typically 20 pound test and is very similar to a braided line but is much thinner then fly line so you can hold more.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

Now you're talking LOAH!

Some are gearheads but a fly reel doesn't need to be expensive. Most of the river and stillwater fishing around here won't put the kind of stress on a reel that requires the nice hardware. Consider a Pfleuger Medalist ($29 to $49) or Pfleuger Trion ($100 or so online). For trout, you just need something that will hold line and provide a little bit of drag control.

If you will mostly fish stillwater, I would suggest a 9-foot 6-weight rod. If you will mostly fish rivers, a 5-weight 7.5' or 8' footer would be a good choice. Both will do double duty just fine.

Most fly lines are short enough that a really good run may take off all your line! This is why backing is used. You probably won't need more than about 100 yards of it.

The cheaper your reel, the cheaper you can get extra spools for it so you can easily swap fly lines. For river fishing, you will typically use a floating line. This can be used to fish dry or wet flies equally well. For lakes, you will want a #3 intermediate sink line for most days. You will rarely fish a floating line on a lake.

If you will fish both stillwater and rivers, pick up a reel, one extra spool, a floating line, and a #3 sinking line. Most pro shops will put backing on for you, load the line, and add a mono butt section to the end of the fly line to easily accept tapered leaders.


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## rapalahunter (Oct 13, 2007)

You start ice fishing... you're buying a fly rod... What next... No more minnow dunking?

It's like I don't even know you anymore.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Come to the dark side LOAH.... When you are ready shoot me a P.M. I will go shopping with you. I have a brother in vegas that geared up and never fishes I will ask him if I can buy it from him basic stuff...


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

rapalahunter said:


> You start ice fishing... you're buying a fly rod... What next... No more minnow dunking?
> 
> It's like I don't even know you anymore.


Don't worry. There's nothing quite like watching line fly out of my open bale and wondering what could be pulling on the other side.

It will just be another way to fish, that's all. I still love my blue fox, worms, and minnows.


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## rapalahunter (Oct 13, 2007)

Just playin' with ya. I actually have a 9' 5wt, I just rarely use it. 

You want a good time with a fly rod, throw some stimulators on thistle creek this summer once you're all set up. It's pretty dang fun.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Stick with your morals LOAH.....the "Dark Side" is .....well it's dark !!

I just hope when we cross paths, you can still say "Hell-o"......I, for one, am going to miss you....


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## stupiddog (Jan 15, 2008)

LOAH said:


> rapalahunter said:
> 
> 
> > You start ice fishing... you're buying a fly rod... What next... No more minnow dunking?
> ...


Yeah you can think that until the first fish explodes out of the water on your dry fly and you feel him yanking down river on an 8 foot 3 weight. Youll be hooked.


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

stupiddog said:


> Yeah you can think that until the first fish explodes out of the water on your dry fly and you feel him yanking down river on an 8 foot 3 weight. Youll be hooked.


or a small LMB or pelican gill for that matter that drags you around in your tooner like it's a whale on crystal meth, after inhaling a foam popper!


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

If you are going to use a float tube and shore fish, get a 9' 5 wt.
I use a Okuma reel with extra spools for my sinking lines. I have 4 lines and with the extra spools, I can change from one line to the other fast and easily.
There are several rods that cost about $100.00 that will work for you.
I have even seen an Okuma starter set with everything for under $125.00.
Redington, Phleuger, Temple Fork, Saint Croix, Cortland and Cabelas all have good starter combo's for a good [rice.
Check out orvis1's outfit. It may be the best thing out there.
You will enjoy adding fly fishing to your arsonal.
Next will be a fly tying kit.
Christmas isn't all that far away!


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

LOAH said:


> I know I've left out a lot of variables, but I don't know what size of rod I'm getting yet. I'm thinking longer than short and a medium weight.


I never would have thunk!! You will enjoy it. You can tag along with me anytime.

As far as your rod is concerned, a 5 wt is the best 'all around' rod for river fishing and lake fishing in Utah, if you plan on doing both with the same rod. 9 feet is a common length for a rod as well.

For river fishing around here, (provo, weber, ogden etc) a 3wt or 4wt is all you need. I prefer a 3wt myself, mine is 8'6" long. I love to fish it.

I do have a 5wt that I use for still water action or when going to a larger river such as the Green River, I can get more casting distance with it and it can cut through the wind better.

Rods will have a certain action that you need to be aware of.

_"The action of a fly rod refers to how flexible the fly rod is. If you forget everything else on this website, try to remember this. The action of a fly rod is simply a fancy measure of how flexible the fly rod is.

There are three main "actions" of a fly rod. Fly rods are generally labeled as being "fast action", "medium action" or "slow action". To confuse things further, in terms of flexibility, fast action fly rods are also called tip flex fly rods. Medium action rods are often called mid-flex fly rods. Slow action fly rods are frequently known as full flex fly rods meaning how much of the rod bends when you cast it."_ (from the link listed below)

http://www.flyfishinggear.info/buyers_g ... ction.shtm

It talks about all the actions of the rods and the purpose of them. It's worth understanding what type of action to get. Not having the right action for what you are doing, can make your fly fishing experience not as enjoyable.

For fly line, use a floating line for the rivers. This is used for pretty much all flies on a river. All though, I do know some people who use a sink tip line on rivers. I have tried it, and I didn't like it as much. Just put some weight on your leader to get your fly down.

I would suggest a DT (double taper) line as well. A DT line can last longer. Once one side is worn out, just take the line off your spool, reattach it using the other side of the fly line. Some people will even cut their fly line in half and store it way to use it later. I also think they are easier to cast than a WF (weight forward) line. You will arguments as to why both are good.

Here is an article that talks about DT and WF lines.
http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/wfvsdt.shtml

Hope that helps. Good luck, and if you ever have any questions, ask away.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks for bumming me out Rapala! Nothing sounds better that wet wading Thistle and throwing easy to see dries right now! The though that it won't happen for several months just pushes me farther and farther into a mid-winter funk! O|*


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Well thanks for all the responses (and pm's). This info will come in very handy.

Today, my wife and I were coming back to Orem from Sp. Fork and I still had a half hour before SW in Provo closed. I insisted we go in and check out some rods and reels and she gave me the okay (so long as we didn't buy anything :lol: ).

In we went and on the way to the fishing section, she discovered that they have clothing! :roll: 

I was secretly trying to gain approval for my upcoming purchases and then she saw one of those $50.00 start-up kits. :| 

I made up some garb about how they are for kids trying to learn how to fly fish (like I know anything) and that a grown man should get a REAL rod. :mrgreen: 

By now, she had lost interest and reverted to the clothing for awhile. I spoke to a helpful employee and he was quick to weed through the rod rack for some decent 9 footers at a decent price.

I told him my price limit would be around $150 for the rod and significantly less for the reel. He turned up a $140.00 Temple Fork 9' 5wt 4pc and said that would be a good rod for fishing lakes, plus the 4pcs would help for packing into the Uintas. There were plenty of less expensive rods around and some good deals going, but they were mostly 2pc rods at 9', so that could get ugly for hiking.

Then we moved on to the reels. I was glad that it was closing time and there wasn't anyone else around because I made a **** fool of myself while examining the reels.  I didn't know which way was forward or reverse. He was very patient with me and helped me understand that the clicking noise was because I was reeling backwards.  :lol: 

"Oh, so it's not left handed."

NOOB!

So I suppose I have an entirely new language to learn (jargon) and many tricks to pick up. It'll be like starting a new job surrounded by people that know exactly what they're doing and I'm just holding up the line.

Oh well. It'll be fun to try all this new stuff out when I get it.

Again, thanks for the helpful responses. They are appreciated.



One more thing: If I buy a bunch of junk from Sportsman's, they'll most likely show me how to load my spool, tie the backing to the actual line, tie on the leader, all that, right?

I'm not sure how people attach everything together. Any particular knots I should study up on? I hate to be so reliant upon others, but it will most likely shorten the curve a bit for me.

Gratzi.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Sportsman's will put everything together including a butt section and a tapered leader at no charge when you purchase the rod, reel and line. The backing will cost a few bucks more, unless you buy a starter kit with backing included.
One more suggestion,
the ISE show is comming up and you can find some great deals on fly equipment there.
You may want to wait and see what there is at the expo.
I think that Elk Horn is one of the brands that people were talking about.


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## stupiddog (Jan 15, 2008)

LOAH I dont ussually make offers like this but you seem like a good guy, I have 3 setups I keep around for when Im taking out buddies that dont have there own quipment and would be willing to let you barrow them to try out different weights and lengths. I have a 9 ft 6 wt, a 8 ft 6 inch 5 weight and my favorite a 7 ft 6 inch 3 weight. Hit me up if your interested. Also a buddy of mine we just got completely setup for $170 rod, reel, line, Lanierd, tools everything you need and he loves his setup if you want me to show you what he got.


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## Greenguy88 (Sep 7, 2007)

LOAH as far as reels go I really like my okuma reel as well. Its fairly inexpensive (25) , so are the extra spools, and its easy to change. There are alot of rods out there, I like the St. Croix I have, but im no expert on rods! Anytime you wanna go this coming season let me know!


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

stupiddog-

Thanks for the offer. Really appreciated, but that won't be necessary. I'll need to buy a rod right when I get this money, or my chance will pass (knowing my wife, this is very true...She likes...THINGS).

I've decided to go for the Temple Fork 9' 5wt 4pc rod that was recommended tonight and I'll probably get a $60 machined aluminum Pflueger reel with a large arbor. I think the guy said it was a Pflueger Summit, but he may have been talking about the other reel. I remember which one it was though and I'm already excited to get this ice melted and on my tube. :twisted: 

GG88- 

You're on! We'll talk. :wink:


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## Greenguy88 (Sep 7, 2007)

LOAH we'll have to hit a certain lake at ice off in our tubes... :twisted:


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

:twisted:


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Screw that lets figure a way to get my boat there! I know what you mean LOAH about getting the gear when you get the money, otherwise it always finds a way to get spent on something else. Temple fork is a good brand and 4pc rods are getting more and more popular. Starting out I would spend less on the reel and more on the rod. There are some nice entry level combo's out there but check the warranty you will break a few and it sucks but if you have the warranty they get replaced, I have broken 4 of my orvis rods and had them replaced. Starting out you should get a 8-9 ft 5wt with wf floating line, get some indicators and some basic nymphs. I would suggest pheasant tails, hairs ear,disco midge (mulitple colors), brassies, and copper johns. For dry flies you can wait til summer but pick up some foam hoppers, beattles, crickets, and stimulators. The offer stands if you need some help I can come down and give you a hand.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Base what your getting on what type of fishing you will be doing- the rod sounds fine- just not sold on the large arbor reel for Utah. It really doesn't matter though because if you find you enjoy it you will find what you really like and you will some how find the money to get it. Just seems to work out that way.


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

My dad has a temple fork and loves it. We go every year and fish the Uintas and it is fun. I'm glad your trying fly fishing, it is a bit overwhelming at first but go with someone who knows what they are doing and be patient. Fishing lakes in the Uintas is a good place to start, my cousins had never fly fished and I had them catching loads of fish using my fly rod. Good Luck, let us know how it goes!!!


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Yea, thank god for lifetime warranties on rods. I have a horrible track record. I usually break 4-6 _a year!_ My personal best by myself is breaking 14 rods in one year. I spent enough money on shipping and handling charges to get one great rod. The upside is think about how much I would have spent if I had to pay full price for every rod i broke. 14 rods X $300 a rod = $4,200 + tax. That would have been an expensive lesson.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Nope just very hard on gear. (about 120-140 days a year) They were all different brands but mostly Scott, Sage, Winston, and St. Croix. It is not usually the rods, but my own **** fault. From flies hitting rod to casting a frozen rod, line wrapped around tip, too much pressure on fish, to ferrules sliding apart when casting. I had a temper tantrum on Diamond Fork one day and threw my Scott S3 like a javelin and got it stuck way up in a Cottonwood tree with about 45 feet of line out. Had to climb 15 feet up the tree to get it out but it didn't break on that one!


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Nope just very hard on gear. (about 120-140 days a year) They were all different brands but mostly Scott, Sage, Winston, and St. Croix. It is not usually the rods, but my own **** fault. From flies hitting rod to casting a frozen rod, line wrapped around tip, too much pressure on fish, to ferrules sliding apart when casting. I had a temper tantrum on Diamond Fork one day and threw my Scott S3 like a javelin and got it stuck way up in a Cottonwood tree with about 45 feet of line out. Had to climb 15 feet up the tree to get it out but it didn't break on that one!


And I thought I was the only one who threw tantrums streamside! I am good for 1-2 breaks per year but last year was my first non-rod busting year. Thank goodness for the 25 year warranty on the rods.


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> I had a temper tantrum on Diamond Fork one day and threw my Scott S3 like a javelin and got it stuck way up in a Cottonwood tree with about 45 feet of line out. Had to climb 15 feet up the tree to get it out but it didn't break on that one!


 :rotfl: That is a great story! I am usually cursing because I get snagged up on something before I even get to the river. 120-140 days a year, LUCKY! My brother has not been fly fishing long and gets tangled up a lot, he says "oh great, another ***t knot!!!  He claims to have the knot untying merit badge.


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## icthys (Sep 10, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Yea, thank god for lifetime warranties on rods. I have a horrible track record. I usually break 4-6 _a year!_ My personal best by myself is breaking 14 rods in one year. I spent enough money on shipping and handling charges to get one great rod. The upside is think about how much I would have spent if I had to pay full price for every rod i broke. 14 rods X $300 a rod = $4,200 + tax. That would have been an expensive lesson.


I hope you're just trying to get a reaction from this confession.

This is the exact reason rods are so **** expensive. You've got to be joking me if you're breaking that many rods. I've broken 1, one, uno in the 23 years I've been fly fishing and I was an 8 year old kid with my first rod! Whatever happened to taking care of your stuff?

Let me personally thank you for driving up consumer pricing!


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Are you running out of things to b*tch about icthys? I mean really....


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## icthys (Sep 10, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Are you running out of things to b*tch about icthys? I mean really....


Didn't think I was bitchin', just saying what needed to be said. I just don't find it very responsible to take advantage of something for being sloppy.

It's no secret I build rods. I warranty my work. I will also rebuild a rod which was broken from defect only. If the rod was broken from being sloppy I won't warranty it but I will rebuild it at a very nice discount. The reason why is because that's what I expect from the things I buy. I'm not going to take advantage because I'm irresponsible. If I break it, I'll take care of it. Because of my warranty standard my rods are priced less than a production line factory rod. You can get a big name rod like Sage, St. Croix, G.Loomis, Winston, Scott, etc for a better price and built the way you want it.

I may not build as many rods as I could because of my replacement standard but those that do have me build them a rod are ones that appreciate a nice product and take care of it.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Sorry- I have broken 6 fly rods in my time and it's a long time- but 2 on one trip.
Sh** happens- some people just seem to attract bad vibes. On the other hand I have a brother who has maybe broken one since 1968 and is so anal about his rods that it makes you uncomfortable to get in his drift boat. I agree one should take care of his equipment and Ich has a point to a degree but as of right now I am sending in a fly rod for repair. Bad cast, cold weather and a bead head slammed into the rod. Next cast broken rod. Sorry just don't feel that was from being a negligent-------- though I was nymphing.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Packfish, if you hold your fly rod at a slight angle away from your body, your sinkers and flies should never come close to your rod.
You probably already know and do this, but others who read this may also be helped with the tip.
Not trying to make you mad, just trying to help,
Grandpa D.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

I am really ticked off Grandpa D----------- nah- good to point that out. Every so often though your stroke will get out of line especially when your cold to the bone. Like I said SH**
happens- no way around it. But life goes on - the stock market scares me alot more than breaking a rod does.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Why would the offer an undconditional warranty if they did not expect people to use them. My breaks have come in drift boats, size 13 boots, and car windows. One of the reasons I bought from a major rod builder is for that warranty protection.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> Why would the offer an undconditional warranty if they did not expect people to use them. My breaks have come in drift boats, size 13 boots, and car windows. One of the reasons I bought from a major rod builder is for that warranty protection.


Ditto...hard to get Sportsmans to understand that policy..... :?

I've only broke 3 or so in the last ten years.....

Golf clubs is different, I just 'throw' them and don't want 'em back...warranty of not. !! :evil:


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

They expect you to use them- why do you think they cost so much ?


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