# Wintering bulls, where are they?



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Thought I'd start a thread to see who's seeing bulls, and where.

I'm hitting all the wintering areas on Nebo, South end of the Wasatch,
and the NW side of Manti and noticing fewer and fewer mature bulls.
It's been changing verily consitent for about 5 years now. But this year
even more so.....

Last week I looked at the Springville canyon area, While there are a decent
number of total elk, I glassed 250+ or so, The normal areas, were the mature 
bulls gather up, There were only younger bulls to be found, I only glassed
one 6 x 6 were nomaly I would see 20"+.....

Same on Hwy 6, to Soldior summit. Singles , doubles commin. Biggest group
of bulls I've seen together there this year is 3....( AND STILL very few COWS!)

The Nebo side , same story , I'm told the DWR is going to do an exstensive
helicopter fly count on the Nebo. This will be intresting, and I'm hearing from 
the DWR Bio's they plan on tag cuts there for sure.........
( A heads up for you guys applying for Nebo elk)

So, lets hear it, What you guys seeing for bulls this winter in the state?


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

There isn't any bulls on the north cache in comparison to a few years ago!!! The herd of thirty bulls I have watched for ten years has five bulls none of which are over 315


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Here is where all your elk are:

I just found some #'s. I DO NOT LIKE THE LOOKS OF THIS AT ALL!!!! :evil:

Wasatch elk tags.
2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 
Archery 173 160 135 94 78
Rifle 270 250 210 216 180
Muzzy 114 106 89 55 47
Premium 18 16 13 12 10

575 532 447 377 315

Here are all your elk #'s. You want to know where all the elk are on the FRONT? 
And you all know how many more cow tags were given.
And we all know how many archery spike/cow tags were given. 
The dwr keeps this up and the elk on the Front will be GONE, like the deer!!!

I believe they need to go back to the numbers of 08 or 09 if they are going to be giving so many cow tags out.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

I don't see as many bulls wintering on the Deseret Land and Livestock as in previous years. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places though.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

imho it seems to be all about the money $$$$$. anything the government gets in the middle of it always goes south.

I could see the writing on the wall with all the spike tags state wide. Na big bulls dont come from spikes. Same thing with the cow tags.

I warned about the killing the does. Na does don't breed bucks and make more deer. Were over objective.

We rely on these guys to have accurate data so we can purchase our licenses. 
They seem to be coming up short all the way around imho.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Plenty of bulls on the north side of I-80 in the Parley's Canyon / Little Dell area. Too bad most stay on private land in Summit County during the hunting seasons.


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



MWScott72 said:


> Plenty of bulls on the north side of I-80 in the Parley's Canyon / Little Dell area. Too bad most stay on private land in Summit County during the hunting seasons.


Just have to know where to look! I'm in elk everyday that I hunt from Aug to Dec. Unfortunately just because I can get into them doesn't mean I can connect! :evil:


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Wintering bulls, were are they?*

I've seen a lot down on the Manti this winter. I saw more this winter than last, but that means squat.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Anyways goof, what your seeing doesnt matter.....

You are not allowed to make opinions on big game populations without a degree in biology 

I read every year on the state website just before the hunts and they always tell me I should see plenty of game this year


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## Towhee (Oct 23, 2012)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

What few mature bulls on the wasatch make it throught the standard early hunts, will now have the joyous experience of getting gun down on the winter range come november 2013. I think the quality is going to keep slipping until tags are cut, and the ridiculas idea of a late hunt is finally cast out.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



JuddCT said:


> I've seen a lot down on the Manti this winter. I saw more this winter than last, but that means squat.


Were? 
We used to have a good number of bulls winter from Fairview north to Thistle..
4-6 years ago there were 35 to 45 bulls.....Been shrinking every year.....

Exact same wintering areas this year ... ZERO BULLS...

PM me if you wouldn't mined Judd, I'd like to put a spotting scope on them.
and get pics.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



MWScott72 said:


> Plenty of bulls on the north side of I-80 in the Parley's Canyon / Little Dell area. Too bad most stay on private land in Summit County during the hunting seasons.


I'd like to take pics, anything over 300" ?


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Your cats ate them. :mrgreen:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



Iron Bear said:


> Your cats ate them. :mrgreen:


Well, for the Strawberry elk, the wolves, hybrids, whatever they are, have
effected that herd more than anyone would/could have ever imagined!

Alway been A LOT of elk there till these 'wild dogs' shown up, 
cats in that area , gone too :lol:


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

No! I'd never believe a predator could have any effect on big game populations.

You're so full of bullsnot goofy.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Sounds like a shed hunters big bull fishing trip to me...


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Nope TEX, I don't go out looking for sheds.

My main goal is to get folks paying attention, may be more of them will begin to realize
whats happening to our shrinking resources....

It's good to see guys like Reb, Robi, SW, all have the knowledge of whats REALLY going down.
I'm sure there's a few more out there, lets hear it!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Bull's i've seen are high high high! Like up living with the Mt Goats, 10,000ft still. Very few cows are coming down right now also. I think these late cow hunts running till Feb1st are really keeping elk pushed up in the higher elevations longer.

-DallanC


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

They're out there goofy. Like I said earlier, my brother has run into them while cow hunting and he said there's no shortage of big bulls out there. You just gotta be in the right place to see em. Let me ask you this, how many times have you run into a big flock of mature gobblers in the winter? I've been out actively hunting them in the fall and winter months for a long time and have run across a big tom flock exactly twice in twenty years. Nebraska has a turkey season going on right now till the end of the month. My buddy who lives back there and travels those hills every day has yet to run into a turkey with a beard. He SWEARS they're all killed off but then every spring, there they are, out strutting and gobbling their fool heads off. Just cuz you cant see it dont mean it aint there...


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## Moose Hollow (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



wyogoob said:


> I don't see as many bulls wintering on the Deseret Land and Livestock as in previous years. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places though.


I was up there the other day didn't see many a few about 1500 yards away in there fences.


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Normally this time of year I could tell you where my favorite herd is at, but my wife just had our baby so I wont be out much this winter. Maybe in the next week ill be able to get out and see if there are any mature bulls in the usual spots.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Wintering bulls, were are they?*



goofy elk said:


> JuddCT said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen a lot down on the Manti this winter. I saw more this winter than last, but that means squat.
> ...


They are all over my favorite chukar hunting areas down there. I wouldn't give those spots up to anyone. However, I've seen more on the south side from salina up to manti than I've seen in recent years. But once again, that is just my opinion and I know it ain't worth much.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



TEX-O-BOB said:


> They're out there goofy. Let me ask you this, how many times have you run into a big flock of mature gobblers in the winter? I've been out actively hunting them in the fall and winter months for a long time and have run across a big tom flock exactly twice in twenty years. ...


BAD question to ask me TEX, I live in TURKEY WONDERLAND!

Got HUNDEREDs of birds within a miles or so of my house, hens & Jake's hang lower,
250-300...The mature Toms all gather a little farther up both drainage's..
One flock had 57 mature Toms in it last week!! One group!

Haven't counted the Tom flock yet in Nebo Creek, but it's 25+.
You may have only seen it twice in your life, BUT I see it every time I
leave my house on a sled!

Now, can we get back to who seeing any bulls?

And 90red, looking foeward to hearing from you


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

 My bad Goofy, I should have known....


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## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

I got sent some pics last night from a local of 7 bulls that are wintering less than 1 mile from my cabin. Biggest is a huge 9x7, in fact I think a forum member has some summer pics of him on his trail camera??
The other 6 are all big 6pts, I'm not much of a scorer but looks to me like 330-350 with one maybe 370ish. They are not small bulls!!!
Tempted to make a run down there and check them out


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## 90redryder (Oct 10, 2011)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



goofy elk said:


> [quote="TEX-O-BOB":3az5ised]They're out there goofy. Let me ask you this, how many times have you run into a big flock of mature gobblers in the winter? I've been out actively hunting them in the fall and winter months for a long time and have run across a big tom flock exactly twice in twenty years. ...


BAD question to ask me TEX, I live in TURKEY WONDERLAND!

Got HUNDEREDs of birds within a miles or so of my house, hens & Jake's hang lower,
250-300...The mature Toms all gather a little farther up both drainage's..
One flock had 57 mature Toms in it last week!! One group!

Haven't counted the Tom flock yet in Nebo Creek, but it's 25+.
You may have only seen it twice in your life, BUT I see it every time I
leave my house on a sled!

Now, can we get back to who seeing any bulls?

And 90red, looking foeward to hearing from you [/quote:3az5ised]
I finally got out to look for the elk. I got distracted by a bobcat eating some winter kill deer and before I knew it the sun was down and I was out of time.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Saw a bunch of deer this morning, come boiling out of a small canyon so I stopped hoping to see some yotes or lions chasing them... was surprised when these two guys came up out of there. The deer certainly did not like them one bit.

[attachment=0:ve7yzivm]elk1.jpg[/attachment:ve7yzivm]

-DallanC


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



goofy elk said:


> Last week I looked at the Springville canyon area, While there are a decent
> number of total elk, I glassed 250+ or so, The normal areas, were the mature
> bulls gather up, There were only younger bulls to be found, I only glassed
> one 6 x 6 were nomaly I would see 20"+.....


My daughter and I went for a drive on Sunday to glass for elk and deer. The cows, calves, and little guys were on the hillsides, but to our surprise, we found the 6X6 was enjoying some golf. (Actually wished I had a camera at the time  )


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Thanks 90, Judd, hockey, Dallan.,,,Now were back on track.

And Catherder, Probably the same lone 6x6 I saw if it was on the Hobble creek course.

Its getting crazy now, I look somewere almost every day, in wintering areas that
should have groups of bulls, high and low.....Were the last 15+ years there have 
been good numbers. They simply not anywere to be found this year.......

And dont try to tell me 'their higher on the mountain'..I'm using sleds and a spotting scope.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



goofy elk said:


> And Catherder, Probably the same lone 6x6 I saw if it was on the Hobble creek course.


Yep.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

this year has been a disapointment on the oqurh/standsbury unit sure there is the big bunch over on the kennecott side but the part of the herd that gets 90 percent of the preasure is lacking big time in mature bulls. this has been a ongoing problem for the last few years fewer and fewer mature bulls showing up less than 10 years ago if you wanted to see wintering bulls all you had to do was go out to the yellow grass above pennys and there were tons on year we had over 120 bulls between stockton pass and ophir, not counting the bull herd over by cedar fort. this year i can account for 14 mature bulls period. sure there s a good group of elk in the wintering grounds but there the cow/calf and inmature bulls under 3 years old. after talking to the local c/o s they agree that the herd has been hit way to hard over the last years espically when they started allowing spike hunting on this unit. between the archery hunt s in august to the antlerless hunts that end in december these elk are preasured almost constantly as with all the other herds in the state. this unit is for the most part taken up by kennecott at least from butterfield canyon north leaving only the south end of the oquirhs and the standsbury part open to public hunting they need to adjust there numbers accordingly a quick check of the harvest numbers confirm that the hunts on a downward spiral. if anyone wants to hunt this herd and invest there points and kill a 3-4 year old bull if they can find one have at it and i just wish that they could see the folly if a soike hunt here at all. the cow hunts well if you want a easy one dont hunt here we can see them everyday but darn few want to go were there at (no roads period) so have a horse are packboard ready as you are going to need them


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Goof, To answer your question- they sure arent in there normal wintering areas. Also there are fewer to be found (alot fewer). With these dumb azz late cow hunts its keepin pushed around. Also with next years late bull hunt, well u understand.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Man I just had an interesting couple of hours!!!! 
The DWR started their fly count with a helicopter today on the Nebo unit.

Looks like they will have the whole east side flown, and counted today..
BEAUTIFUL day for it up here for sure! Mid 40's, not a cloud in the sky!
[attachment=3:2m77h116]100_3764a.jpg[/attachment:2m77h116]
[attachment=2:2m77h116]100_3766a.jpg[/attachment:2m77h116]
[attachment=1:2m77h116]100_3767a1.JPG[/attachment:2m77h116]
[attachment=0:2m77h116]100_3760a.jpg[/attachment:2m77h116]

I'd be willing to bet my last $100 bill were this will end up: for elk on the Nebo,
Below herd objective population numbers,
Average bull harvested, below age objective,
Significant falloff in hunter success rates for all 3 hunts.
With the addition of a late season LE elk hunt in 2013,
Tag cuts can be expected on the Nebo unit...

And Nebo deer, I don't even know were to start the with the deer herd it's so poor.....
Heaven help the deer :!:

I'm sure Bullsnot will get the count numbers, as I will too. It will be interesting


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

:O--O--O:

Well, I've seen shed hunters crawling EVERYWERE this weekend....

Anyone seeing any big bulls....


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Wintering bulls, were are they?*



goofy elk said:


> :O--O--O:
> 
> Well, I've seen shed hunters crawling EVERYWERE this weekend....
> 
> Anyone seeing any big bulls....


Depends on your definition of big. I saw about 7 that I would range between 270 - 340 roughly.


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## flint (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Any more word on how that Nebo count turned out?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



flint said:


> Any more word on how that Nebo count turned out?


Havn't seen the hard numbers yet, but i do know this much.
Looks like the 4th year in a row herd number will be below ojective.
And with falling success rates, below average age harvest numbers,
And the addition of a late November rifle season...........
LE archery , muzzy, and early rifle hunts will see tag cuts on Nebo...

And ,IMHO, they should take it one step further, NO cows during general archery.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



goofy elk said:


> flint said:
> 
> 
> > Any more word on how that Nebo count turned out?
> ...


Just on the Nebo?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



bowhunt3r4l1f3 said:


> goofy elk said:
> 
> 
> > flint said:
> ...


No....

Every unit that is below herd objective numbers SHOULD NOT allow
cows to be harvested on general archery tag........JMHO.


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## TRDHUNTER (Sep 11, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

I have only seen a few small bulls where I normally see a good sized group of mature bulls. In one group I only saw one spike. Looking higher yielded nothing and in the past couple years with less snow they were same level so with more snow higher seems pointless anyways. Have not made it to all the spots I check, but all the ones in south utah county have been with same results. Not sure if some of areas are worth hiking looking for sheds as there might only be one or two sets anyways.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

The whole point of this thread IS:

Wake up and smell- the rose's boy"s !!!!!!

TRD is spot on..


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## GRIFF (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

Goofy you kind of remind me of Glen Beck. Everything is always gloom and doom. You make it seem as if the elk herd is on the brink of extinction. While things could be better, they also could be a lot worse.

Later,
Griff


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



GRIFF said:


> Goofy you kind of remind me of Glen Beck. Everything is always gloom and doom. You make it seem as if the elk herd is on the brink of extinction. While things could be better, they also could be a lot worse.
> 
> Later,
> Griff


Right??:lol:


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

The thing i cant figure out is why the division has to manage all the units in a boom bust cycle. You can see it happening before it happens. Its like watching a train wreck in slow motion!

The wasatch west deer unit is next. No tag reductions planned this year according anise. Last year was a slaughter! More hunters then ive seen in the last 10 years combined. O but youll have a few keyboard guides say its just fine. Then 3 years from now the division will shut it down for recovery and blame it on bad winters, drought, or some other bs.

The conductor has left the wheel. Wont be long till another unit crashes.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



swbuckmaster said:


> The thing i cant figure out is why the division has to manage all the units in a boom bust cycle. You can see it happening before it happens. Its like watching a train wreck in slow motion!
> 
> The wasatch west deer unit is next. No tag reductions planned this year according anise. Last year was a slaughter! More hunters then ive seen in the last 10 years combined. O but youll have a few keyboard guides say its just fine. Then 3 years from now the division will shut it down for recovery and blame it on bad winters, drought, or some other bs.
> 
> The conductor has left the wheel. Wont be long till another unit crashes.


The WW was a joke. I'm surprised they didn't cut some tags. That was a cluster like I haven't seen in a while.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*

From KSL today....

"More than half of the elk habitat in the state is getting flown this year," Thacker said.

The surveys are partially funded by conservation permits that are auctioned off at sportsmen's banquets. The rest of the money comes from the division's big game budget.

Wildlife biologists said the flights are a critical part of their job.

"We can estimate (the elk population) pretty well for a couple of years, but at that point we want to 'ground truth' our population estimates and make sure they're staying about where we think they are," Thacker said.

The more accurate count allows the DWR to make informed decisions about how to best manage the state's elk herds.

"On many units we're exceeding our population objectives - what we've agreed to have and manage on these units," Thacker said.

"We aren't able to kill enough cows, actually," he said. "We need to control that and this count is when we decide how many antlerless permits - cow tags - we'll have for the next two or three years."


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



swbuckmaster said:


> The thing i cant figure out is why the division has to manage all the units in a boom bust cycle. You can see it happening before it happens. Its like watching a train wreck in slow motion!
> 
> The conductor has left the wheel. Wont be long till another unit crashes.


SPOT ON!

And then there's guys like McFly, Just don't get out enough to see it I guess :?:


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > The thing i cant figure out is why the division has to manage all the units in a boom bust cycle. You can see it happening before it happens. Its like watching a train wreck in slow motion!
> ...


I get out plenty. I just don't brag about my exploits like you. And i see things different.


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Seen 3 bulls in Provo canyon just little boys though prob near 290ish


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Saw 2 big boys last night along with 4 others in the 300 range on the Wasatch. The looked healthy and strong.


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## hatch000 (Aug 4, 2011)

I had my first cow elk tag this last season. I hunted in December and beginning of Jan. it was a depredation tag that I received from a landowner in cache county. I have always hunted mule deer so this cow tag was a first for me. I saw hundreds of elk everyday. I saw probably over a dozen 6pt bulls every trip. Only a few spikes. But a lot of cows. I don't know if what I saw is typical for that area but I was amazed of how many elk there were. Landowners said the elk herd there was double that of hardware ranch. Needless to say, my brother and I were able to harvest both our cows at the same time with a total of 4 trips to the area. It was probably the easiest hunt I will ever do.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Wintering bulls, were are they?*



flint said:


> Any more word on how that Nebo count turned out?


Got the numbers.......elk herd objective: 1,450

This winters fly count figured at 1,200 elk for herd estamate.

Average age bull harvested 5.9

Nebo is managed for 6.5 to 7.5 year old bulls....

The Nebo unit is below objective and average age harvest..

Also, there was a concern by DWR/Bio's, a " lack of mature bulls"
spotted during the fly count....Hoping/working for 25% reduction in tags 2013..


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## natorious22 (Sep 29, 2012)

Was driving through sardine canyon the other day and saw a spike about ten feet from the road. Continued on and right as I passed mantua going south west I saw a pretty good herd of about 25-30.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Saw a bunch today between Spanish and Fairview. A lot of she'd hunters were staking out spots


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