# Rocky Mountain Goat



## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Hello, 

Hope everyone is having a happy 2016. As many of you, I'm in the process of doing research for 2016 hunts and season. Particularly, I'm interested in a 2016 mountain goat hunt for my father. He has 12 points, and if I'm not mistaken that may be enough to pull a nanny goat tag on Willard or possibly Beaver. I'm interested in hearing from anyone that has experienced those hunts? 

My father has some health issues, and that is one of the reasons that I'm thinking the nanny tag may be a good option, as he could possibly draw that tag a few years sooner than the Billy tag. I'm interested in your thoughts about a nanny vs Billy goat as a once in a lifetime trophy? I know the Billy's have a bit more mass in their horns, and larger in general. Does a nanny make a nice mount on the wall? I know there are some taxidermists that visit the forums, and would be interested in your thoughts on the "trophy" value/looks of a Billy vs Nanny mount. We aren't looking for a book goat, but would like a good representation of the species and a nice mount to remember the hunt. Of course, we know it's not the size of the animal but the experience of the hunt which holds the most value. 

Finally, for those of you that have done either of these hunts, would be interested to hear your experience? I'm leaning towards Willard as I think it may be a little less physically demanding, but have always wanted to hunt the Beaver, as that is why we started applying for the goat tag many years ago. 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions, and feel free to PM me if you prefer that over sharing on the open forum. 

Thanks all


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Where you from?


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks for the welcome Dunkem. I'm from Utah county, folks live in northern Utah.


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## Blackie6 (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't know anything about hunting goats or about the Willard unit. But I have grown up hunting beaver every year, and it is a hunt that can be done. There is a lot of goats there. We see them from the very far back country, to a couple hundered yards off the road. Good luck


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Blackie6 said:


> I don't know anything about hunting goats or about the Willard unit. But I have grown up hunting beaver every year, and it is a hunt that can be done. There is a lot of goats there. We see them from the very far back country, to a couple hundered yards off the road. Good luck


Thanks for the information and response Blackie. That is some beautiful country that you get to hunt each year! I appreciate the input and glad to hear the goats are doing well done there.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the nanny hunt on the beaver unit will not take place in 2016. I thought that was one of the items on the docket that the DNR proposed at the wildlife board meeting and that hunt is not listed in the 2016 big game application guidebook. 

As far as the Willard hunt, it can get very very easy. I lived in North Ogden (right below Ben Lomond Peak) and spent a lot of time looking at goats, both from below as well as up on top. You can drive a truck to Inspiration Point, and hike nearly a flat trail from Inspiration to Ben Lomond Peak (you do gain a little elevation the last little part to get up to the peak). This portion of the mountain is widely used by hikers and bikers, so the goats are very accustomed to seeing people. The biggest nanny I have ever seen was less than 300 yards from the parking lot. Once the shooting starts, the goats do head for the cliffs, but usually are back out on top by midweek of the season.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

CPA is correct.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Willard peak is the only female goat hunt for 2016.....


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

The Beaver nanny hunt being discontinued will no doubt have a trickle down effect on the Ogden since both are/were the "easier" to draw options. It'll be interesting to see how applicant pool for the Ogden hunt is affected.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I'm no expert on Willard, but I have had many clients who shot goats on that unit and I always hear stories of steep, rough, cliff country. Lots of long tumbles and damaged hides. The Beaver unit can be much less rugged. 

As for the difference in a nanny and a billy mount-- they are white animals with black horns. The hair is the real trophy (imho). The data I've seen showed 30-40%ish of any-goat hunters shoot nannies. A mature nanny will be similar to a semi-mature billy (what most people shoot) The same general sized forms are used for both. Both can look great and rarely do people ask "Is that a nanny?" when they see a nanny mount. Both can have the same shape to their horns, while a nanny horn will be more slender. I would rather shoot a large nanny, with great hair, that doesn't roll down cliffs vs a billy with shorter hair or that rolls down the cliffs. 

A large, mature billy is larger-- bigger shoulder and hump, while they usually have longer hair along their back and heavier horns. It is a difference, but I'd guess the great majority of people would never know the difference of the mount on the wall.

When I talk to people who are preparing to go on their mtn goat hunt I usually give them the same advice. 
-Be careful where you kill it. Do you want a slightly smaller goat with a perfect face/hide or do you want to kill a larger goat that tumbles down avalanche chutes and tears his face apart and breaks those larger horns?
-Just like billies, nannies can be off alone and there is nothing to compare it to-- so if everything is to scale a small nanny can look like a decent billy.
-The hair is what makes a mount pop. Hunt them as late in the year as you comfortably can and the hair will be longer.
-In the end it is a white animal with black horns. Both look good on the wall.


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## jsc (Nov 13, 2007)

Pm sent


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Packout said:


> I'm no expert on Willard, but I have had many clients who shot goats on that unit and I always hear stories of steep, rough, cliff country. Lots of long tumbles and damaged hides. The Beaver unit can be much less rugged.
> 
> As for the difference in a nanny and a billy mount-- they are white animals with black horns. The hair is the real trophy (imho). The data I've seen showed 30-40%ish of any-goat hunters shoot nannies. A mature nanny will be similar to a semi-mature billy (what most people shoot) The same general sized forms are used for both. Both can look great and rarely do people ask "Is that a nanny?" when they see a nanny mount. Both can have the same shape to their horns, while a nanny horn will be more slender. I would rather shoot a large nanny, with great hair, that doesn't roll down cliffs vs a billy with shorter hair or that rolls down the cliffs.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response and helpful comments Packout! It is very appreciated. I think I am leaning to the Willard Nany hunt. That will be a great time with Dad!


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Thank you for heads up regarding the closure of th nanny hunt on the Beaver CPA and Goofy! That helps narrow it down.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

If you get the Willard hunt and you guys need a pack mule to tag along, let me know! I live in the area and am throwing points at a goat. I would love to help out on anything.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I think Packout nailed it. The vast majority of folks can't distinguish (or won't see much difference) between a nanny and a billy. That said go for the one you want. Nanny hunt odds are much better than the billy odds. Of course, you know that...

I don't think it has been said, but even though a nanny's horns are more slender, they are often as long, if not longer than a comparable billy's. That said, I have no experience on Willard and don't know the herd characteristics on that unit.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

+1 to Packout, he gave the best and most accurate advice on our hunt.

I agree it seems alot if not most people cant tell the difference in some nannys and a billy. It can be REALLY difficult. Check out the following picture of the herd my wife shot her billy out of, two shooter billys in there, and two "nice" nannys, and one HUGE nanny guys would be amazed to have.

Can you tell which is which:

http://huntingnut.com/temp/mtgoats.jpg

If you cant tell the difference between them quickly, then it goes towards Packouts point that it really shouldnt matter.

-DallanC


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks all for the comments, PM's and posts, which have been helpful. Great Pic DallanC, and yes, that can be really hard to tell the nanny's from the billies! I think I may be able to tell the billlies, from the nannies in that pic,but to be honest, would be nervous to pull the trigger without feeling a little more confident. I better start studying! Thanks all!


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

RandomElk16 said:


> If you get the Willard hunt and you guys need a pack mule to tag along, let me know! I live in the area and am throwing points at a goat. I would love to help out on anything.


Thank you RandomElk! Will keep you posted on whether or not we get a tag. Would be great to have some help, and appreciate the offer. Likewise, would be happy to help you pack out your goat also, should we all be so lucky as to draw a tag. Good luck.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't think it's all that hard to tell the difference between a nanny and a billy. If you sit and study them for a bit I think it becomes fairly obvious what sex they are after you get a good facing and a good side view.
I've spent quite a bit of time in the Tushers, Willard, Indian Creek Wyoming, Alaska RG480 and unit ** in Idaho and I can tell you that you are headed for one of the most beautiful and spectacular alpine habitats God has created.

Here's a few educational tests that will help you tell a nanny from a billy.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/hunting/goathunting/pdfs/goat_long_quiz_for_web.pdf
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=quiz.mountaingoatquiz&screen=2


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## Chacoblue (Jan 21, 2016)

Good information Longbow. Thank you!


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

send me a PM. I have hunted nannies and took a large one on willard. you will have to learn to tell the difference between the billies and nannies if you get nanny license. .you could be a long distance from where you park up to two or three miles which IS difficult. the shooting was technical and steep downhill. it's important to know how to hit the goat. study anatomy. it's important to anchor the them on the spot. most hunters do not practice steep downhill shots or study anatomy. Iscouted numerous times and have numerous trail camera photos. I have my hunt on video. Anyway send me a pm if you would like to know about goat hunting on willard.


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

Here is the nanny. Makes the minimum for. SCI record book.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

DallanC said:


> +1 to Packout, he gave the best and most accurate advice on our hunt.
> 
> I agree it seems alot if not most people cant tell the difference in some nannys and a billy. It can be REALLY difficult. Check out the following picture of the herd my wife shot her billy out of, two shooter billys in there, and two "nice" nannys, and one HUGE nanny guys would be amazed to have.
> 
> ...


Ok...just cause i'm curious, here's a stab (from left to right)...2 kids (dang i'm good!), nanny, nanny, billy, billy, 4 nannies, 2 billies.

How'd I do??? That goat shaking his head in the middle of the photo has to be a billy, right?

Would have been a nice place to shoot one. No cliffs!!


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

It's hard to tell with this photo even zoomed in but I'm thinking it's 2 kids, 4 nannies, 1 (?), 1 kid (immature?), two billies. I'm betting if you sat and glassed them for a while you could be nearly 100%.
How'd I do Dallan?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

MWScott72 said:


> How'd I do??? That goat shaking his head in the middle of the photo has to be a billy, right?


One shaking its head is a huge nanny. Everyone kept calling it "Grandma".



longbow said:


> It's hard to tell with this photo even zoomed in but I'm thinking it's 2 kids, 4 nannies, 1 (?), 1 kid (immature?), two billies. I'm betting if you sat and glassed them for a while you could be nearly 100%.
> How'd I do Dallan?


Really good! We sat and glassed these for well over 1 hour at 450 yards.

Left to right: Kid, Kid, Nanny, Nanny, Nanny, HUGE Nanny, young billy, young billy (was funny it has the hair stuck to its horn), young nanny, 9" billy, 9" Billy, young billy.

My wife ended up with the billy laying down, 2nd from the right. Looks nice and flat there, just to the left are huge cliffs. We got super lucky to find them bedded there that morning.

-DallanC


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

*Willard Nanny Goat*

To obtain a Nanny goat license in the State of Utah you will have to pass their nanny identification course.

https://dwrapps.utah.gov/wex/examBorder.jsp?content=loginForm.jsp&formstat=0

You may take the course any time even without a license so we can add this to the great posts of identification so far in this thread...

You WILL be cited if you kill a billy and they will confiscate the meat and trophy- This has happened up there.

The Nannies will almost always have kids up there...they are cantankerous and will run the billies off....like a human marriage.

One difficulty on Willard is that the Nanny horns are extremely thick at the base compared to Nannies from other parts of the N. America. They are not pencil thin down to the skull like the ones at Cabelas....

If the base is wider than the eye socket, the goat is male. But up at Willard the bases on the Nannies are almost as wide as the eye socket (see my pict in earlier post). Its one of the few hunts where I carried a spotting scope with me.

After all my research up there, I now affectionately refer to this unique Willard nanny trait as the.....

wait for it....

.......

The Billy Gene --

(named for Billy Jean King, famous woman tennis player who, if I recall, was putting the whoop-ass on men, long, long, long ago in what seems like a galaxy far, far, far away)


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

Chacoblue...

PM Sent.


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

*Willard Nanny Goat 3rd Place Taxidermy Competition*

Here is a shameless plug for Oquirrh Hills Taxidermy.

I told them feel free to use the Mount in some competitions but I did not know he was entering it at Cabelas competition.

I wandered in there, as I am wont to do from time to time, and I told my buddy, "****, but that sure looks like our goat." :shock: LOL

The parents of the taxidermist were standing behind me (did not know who they were) and they confirmed it was my goat. :shock::shock:


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

*Scouting Camera Picts...*

Here are some scouting camera picts...

They shed like crazy; a great way to scout for them. Just follow the white fluffs in the sagebrush...8)


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I see lots of white critters with black horns, some larger than others. haha Best way to tell is to watch them pee or if a kid tries to nurse.

The nanny shaking its head in the photo-- look at how deep her body is and the size of her shoulders, rump and barrel. I'm not saying a large nanny is the same as a large billy. Just that mature nannies can be very presentable.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Packout said:


> The nanny shaking its head in the photo-- look at how deep her body is and the size of her shoulders, rump and barrel. I'm not saying a large nanny is the same as a large billy. Just that mature nannies can be very presentable.


Haha yea the main guide was going nuts over the size of that nanny while we were waiting on the billys to stand up / move into better position. He kept saying "you sure you want a billy? Grandma there is amazing for a nanny."

-DallanC


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

*Hunt Picts from Willard Nanny Hunt*

Here are some picts from Willard Nanny Hunt....

Left to right:

1. Skills required for steep angle shooting. Work on hitting the shoulder- spine junction well below the hump. They are more resistant to so called "bullet shock" than elk. Hit em with the hardest hitting rifle you have with premium bullets. I used a hot 7mm Magnum hand load with 160 grain nosler partitions. But if I had a 300 win mag with barnes X I would have taken that one instead, etc.... Forget the "behind the shoulder" shot we use on deer and elk. Its non-sense on goats and you may just watch your goat leap off the cliff (yeah, they do that). Hit that shoulder-spinal column junction WELL BELOW THE HUMP, about mid body, and save yourself some grief.

2. Nannys squat when they pee; billys stretch their legs. Shot about a second after that. LOL.

3. After the shot, the goats were curious. So much for the biologist's theory of dispersion.

4. My buddy with my goat.

5. Me n my goat. DWR checked me at the bottom.


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## Bob L. (Jan 11, 2015)

Nanny is just going to have those long thin horns. The thinness you can just tell when you are out there. Also groups of goats together help, because in larger groups you can usually identify a nanny with kids. When in doubt the absolute only way is to watch them squat to urine.
I certainly believe in center shoulder and anchor that goat. I aimed for the center mass of the shoulder centering using the hump on my Billy. 
He crumbled at the shot.

In this pic that Billy was shot center mass of the shoulder at 372 yards with a 264wm and 120ttsx going 3400fps at the muzzle. He was done and only moved cause he rolled a bit after being dead. I am not in awesome shape and did not want to chase a goat. It was hard enough just to pack that thing out for me. I am pushing on the goat uphill to hold in in the picture on a steep hillside.
They are freaking big, including the Nannys.

Get after it! What an experience.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Wow...that is a gorgeous goat Bob. Love the long hair!


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## jungle (May 10, 2008)

*Willard Nanny Goat Hunt Video*

I apologize for the poor video-of-a-video type production; and the camera waving in the excitement. But not for the excitement:shock:! After I shot we watched some hunters chase a wounded goat toward the cliffs just below us...:sad: Fortunately they got it after a short fusillade just at cliff's edge; and very fortunately my buddies restrained me from....;-)

If I would of done it, Hero or Zero?

[URL=http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/lanceh1282/Willard%20Nanny%20Goat%20Hunt1_zpsmmhttrir.mp4]


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## Bob L. (Jan 11, 2015)

MWScott72 said:


> Wow...that is a gorgeous goat Bob. Love the long hair!


Thank you, me too. That was one thing I noticed about him on the hoof and aided in decision making to take him.


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