# Winchester and Hodgdon powder.



## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

So I was reading in the latest issue of Handloader and maybe alot of you knew this already but some winchester powder is the exact same as hodgdon powder, not same receipe, but actually same as came from the same factory. The one I was suprised to see was the win 748 is the same as h414, I had looked everywhere for w748 and couldn't find any but had 8 pounds of h414. Nice to know though.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I did not know that. Is there a link to the article ?


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

I would use caution with that information. If you look at the powder burn chart the Winchester 748 burns faster than the H414. The 748 is #103 on the chart and the 414 is #133. They are not the same powder. You state they are made in the same factory. That factory makes a lot of different powders. You need to make sure you understand what you are reading. There is no room for error when you are reloading.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

I tried to bring it up on the internet but you have to have a subscription to the magazine which I don't have, It is in the lastest issue of Hand Loader magazine. 
I just reread it and made a mistake it is the win 760 not 748 sorry for the confusion!


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## shotgunwill (May 16, 2008)

reb8600 said:


> There is no room for error when you are reloading.


+1

Unless, you want your face blown off I guess.......


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

mikevanwilder said:


> I just reread it and made a mistake it is the win 760 not 748 sorry for the confusion!


This is why you dont trust what you read. Had someone used your first information without checking it could have been a disaster. You also need to be careful what information you are giving. You still cannot swap the load data for these powders. Win 760 is #131 and H414 is #133 on the burn chart. Even that close, you dont swap load data. They are not the same powder. That is exactly why I will not shoot someone elses reloads.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Take it or leave it but that is what information Hodgdons gave the writer of the article, which says that not only are they the same but they come straight from the same spout in the factory. 
Yeah I missed up and wrote the wrong thing why I though 748 is beyond me but the info is true about the 760.


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

> They are not the same powder.


I have read the article in Handloader, and other articles on the same subject from other sources in the past.

They are the same powder, made in the same St. Marks FL facility and just marketed by two different outfits. HOWEVER - powder varies slightly by LOT, and correct terminology would say that they are _different_ lots of the _same_ powder. This accounts for the slight variations in load data between various manuals.

Burning rate charts are NOT gospel and are really only a general guide that can change around a bit depending on application or even who makes the chart. In addition, the format of most is that of a numbered _list_, and you are unable to see the difference or gap between the powders listed. In addition, burning rates can change over time, or if manufacturer switches to a different facility.

Some examples of this are a slight change in burning rate for H-4831, H-335, and 2400 over the years; also changes in AA#5 in a production switch between 3 countries.

Other linkages that vary only by the lot packaged:
W-231 = HP38
W-296 = H-110

None of this alleviates working up loads or making sure that when you change components, including lot #s of powders, or that you are excused from rechecking for excessive pressure with a different lot of powder. The good news is that a W760 user may not find it on the shelf at Sportsmans, but can try H414 and have virtually the same powder.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

> HOWEVER - powder varies slightly by LOT, and correct terminology would say that they are different lots of the same powder.


Boy I agree with that!! I'm running RL22 in one off my guns at near max. I found a cache of powder in the Jubilee market in Evanston and bought up a bunch of RL22, H1000, H322, H335 and some others. I loaded up the same load I usually use in one of my .257wbys and I was showing high pressures and higher volocities in an otherwise safe load. They very from lot to lot. This is the most variation I've seen in any powder I've used.
I'm with FriscoPete, be carefull.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

That's why if you are serious about reloading, you buy many bottles of the same lot# to try and keep the most consistency. I've actually seen people advertise wanting to buy cans of XXX powder with lot number YYY.

Every-time you switch lot numbers of powder, you should work up your loads again.

I've seen people that buy 2 cans of the same powder, with different lot #'s, mix both cans in a bowl to blend and average the two. IMO thats alot of work when you can just buy a 5lb'er or two of a specific lot # and not worry about it for a while.


-DallanC


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

IF you have a chronograph, fellow Utahn and sometime gunwriter Rocky Raab has an excellent formula for component and powder lot changes that eliminates the costly and more tedious "work up from the bottom" method that most use. It is called "THE 95% SOLUTION" and can be accessed at his web site linked below. It is a very good system. This was also published recently in "Varmint Hunter" magazine as well:

Rocky's Reloading Room www.reloadingroom.com - 95% Solution link: http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/95S.htm


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