# Wyoming G&F expanding on Antler restriction hunts



## goofy elk

---WGoob, please correct me if I'm wrong :arrow: 

The Wyoming 2013 hunter information and application packets are up. 
Just spent most of the morning studying them, making 2013 plans.

Pretty much all the same as years past , except I've notices more AR restricts.

On elk, the opposite of what Utah does on most units, On their general elk
this year there are a dozen units the " Exclude spikes " ....
I'm reading that as you CAN NOT harvest spike bulls..branch antlered bulls only.

And on deer, I knew they went with ARs on a few units last year, But now I
see there are 18 general season units that are 3 point or better units.
I do believe the number of AR units has increased from last year :?: .

I personally applaud the WGF for giving this avenue a try, wish them success.
We'll see how this 'study' turns out,,,,,,,,  
I'm thinking there will be some "nay-say'ers" eating crow :shock:


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## stillhunterman

Thanks for the update goofy. Do you have a link to that info? I can't seem to find it, their web page leaves much to be desired. I'll get back to you on the eating crow thing ;-)


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## goofy elk

Here's the deer link:
http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments ... 003409.pdf

The elk are under tentative elk areas and hunt dates.


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## silentstalker

I wish Utah would go that route. Eliminating the spike harvest on the open units and antler restrictions on the deer. It worked very well on the Fish Lake unit and the hunt has never been the same since they lifted it. 

Thanks for the link and good luck in the Wyo. draws!


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## elkfromabove

goofy elk said:


> We'll see how this 'study' turns out,,,,,,,,
> I'm thinking there will be some "nay-say'ers" eating crow :shock:


Or "yah-say'ers! :roll:


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## TopofUtahArcher

I like the "No spike" philosophy... it allows 20-30% more of the spikes to make it to the second year, where their chances of continued survival are drammatically increased, thus increasing the opportunity to take a mature bull... I dont know how that survival rate plays in WY with the wolf issues they are having, but here in UT that could be a huge boon to the butt-plug problem we have on LE units and GS units...


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## wyogoob

What the ?

I haven't seen the new proclamations yet. I went to all the meetings here, was on a working group, and was supposed to get a run-down of the new regs, but didn't. It could have went to my spam folder and I accidently deleted it.

Lately, I've been out and about the deer winter grounds in Southwest WY. It doesn't look very good. 

I go deer hunting every year, love it. I don't need the meat and with the herd in as poor a shape as ever I'm not going to kill one just to say I did......unless it's a dandy bigger than anything I've already killed.


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## BPturkeys

Wow, good for Wyoming, the hicks finally came up with a brand new idea. Nobody ever thought of doing that. It's genius, their deer and elks herds should double if not triple in the next year or so.


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## wyogoob

I read it. You gotta be kiddin me.

The deer regs for the western third of the state, Regions G, H, and K, are basicslly the same as they have been for years. The deer herd is struggling here, yet an unlimited number of resident tags can be sold over the counter. 

Look in the B&C for Wyoming Muleys. Most come from western Wyoming, Region H and G. 

sad


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## goofy elk

Next year may be the ARs for deer will expand to G, H & k  

That would be AWESOME!


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> Next year may be the ARs for deer will expand to G, H & k
> 
> That would be AWESOME!


I'm for an Option 2-like approach, limited quota, similar to what we do for antelope.

You'd be surprised how many western Wyoming hunters at this year's big game meetings were in favor of ARs.

Thank God for all the mule deer that live in town and on private ranches in Southwest Wyoming.

sad


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## goofy elk

Goob, This last week I've had some VERY interesting conversations with some Wyoming
folks, some members of the outfitters association, a large ranch owner , and a biologist.

Sounds like there is going to be a strong push for change in the western side, Either ARs
OR unit management ( limited quota ) .. Every one I talk with liked Utah's approach....
( I know the opt 2 haters will love hearing that :lol: )

And the second issue was range conditions is such poor shape. No snow until
recent, but if snow continued heavy through march, could be catastrophic to 
deer and antelope herds...A Bio released a statement (news release)

Another note, they all felt like the proposed permit increases will surly pass.
Big changes for non-residents, elk tags will jump to around $750, and deer
permits will be just over $500.. 

Just wondering if that's all in line with what you've heard goob?
(or anyone else with info?)


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## utahgolf

so goofy, you talked with ranch owners and outfitters and they are all for limited opportunity and antler restrictions? wow, big sigh of relief right there and quite surprising.


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## goofy elk

Here's the press release from the Wyoming GF:

Upcoming Winter Could Cause Severe Deer Mortality
12/17/2012

CHEYENNE - The historic drought that affected Wyoming during 2012 has likely been dramatic for wildlife especially as they enter the upcoming winter.
..................................................................
Please do not post news articles in their entirety, its a copyright violation. Use a link to the web article. Thanks UWN Administration

(Contact: Al Langston (307) 777-4540)

-WGFD-


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> Goob, This last week I've had some VERY interesting conversations with some Wyoming
> folks, some members of the outfitters association, a large ranch owner , and a biologist.
> If the Bilogist works for a ranch or the G & F then all of of these entities are against reduced tag numbers.
> 
> Sounds like there is going to be a strong push for change in the western side, Either ARs
> OR unit management ( limited quota ) .. Every one I talk with liked Utah's approach....
> ( I know the opt 2 haters will love hearing that :lol: )
> Wyoming's approach to big game management is some fasion of micro-management. Most of the deer $s are are on the western part of Wyoming; the tourist traps, outfitters, resturants and motels, liquor stores, fireworks stores and gas stations. More deer hunters = mo money. Doesn't matter if there's not any deer left.
> 
> And the second issue was range conditions is such poor shape. No snow until
> recent, but if snow continued heavy through march, could be catastrophic to
> deer and antelope herds...A Bio released a statement (news release)
> I get all the news releases, old news. I have talked about this in other posts. Southwestern WY range conditions for deer mixed; terrible overall for antelope. I've been out in the steppe, the deer winter grounds. There are no mice, very few rabbits. There's nothing for them to eat. Cattle prices being what they are and the drought are killin' the range. Doesn't matter short term. We have to sell "x" amount of licenses to meet budget objectives. I'm not so sure I would call it "catatrosphic"; there's not many deer left anyway. Sad, we have a great gene pool and some of the best deer range in the country. The range looked really good up in the Greys River System, but the deer are losing their winter feed grounds to subdivisions. There's still decent numbers of deer on private ranch property and that will help out.
> 
> Another note, they all felt like the proposed permit increases will surly pass.
> Big changes for non-residents, elk tags will jump to around $750, and deer
> permits will be just over $500.
> Yes, they will pass. I have talked about this in other posts, said $750 will be elk tag amount. Higher prices won't change anything. We will sell every tag that is offered. The non-resident tag waiting lists are very long and will get longer.
> 
> Just wondering if that's all in line with what you've heard goob? As I mentioned a million times before, I have been going to the big game meetings. Tag reductions are not popular at the meetings. AR is popular because they will sell about the same number of tags. The G&F and all the "Save the mule deer so I can have mo money" clubs are pushing for AR. To keep new hunter recruitment up, they allow youngsters to shoot does and fawns, no limit, sell as many youth resident tags as they can, further reducing the deer herd.
> 
> The good side is....uh...let me think.....A lot of us see the deer herd is in trouble and don't fill our tag just to say we did on some dumb outdoor forum.
> 
> 
> (or anyone else with info?)


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## stillhunterman

Looks like things might get even worse for the herds... Here is your link goofyelk:

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1001222.aspx

..."The upcoming winter could present a double-edged sword to mule deer populations. If a heavy snowpack comes,especially in lowland deer wintering areas, significant mortality could occur. If the snowfall is light, the moisture-starved plants will be stressed further and the quality of the habitat will continue to deteriorate."...

The WGF is under a lot of pressure and have made some mistakes in the passed few years, just like all other state game agencies do from time to time. It seems like they are under the gun just to "do something, anything" to slow the pressure from outside forces, like the hunters, even if those implementations are ineffective. Hmm, that sounds familiar... _(O)_ .

Too many hunters feel AR's will help grow deer herds, but unfortunately that's not true. What it is effective at doing, is growing some more bucks if done for a relatively short time, in restricted areas with restricted hunting pressure (tag reductions). Not sure that's gonna help Wyoming out of the problems they are facing. Tough all around, for sure.


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## wyogoob

I have been out on the winter range counting birds for the Christmas Bird Count. We've been doing it for over 30 years and look forward to seeing all the wintering deer and elk. In spite of heavy snow and fresh snow, this year is the worst we seen for wintering deer north and east of Evanston. 

So far it looks like in 2013 they will offer for sell an unlimited number of over-the-counter resident deer tags.


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## wyogoob

A three-point AR in Evanston would be funny.

Just go to a southwest Wyoming big box store and ask an adult male to hold up three fingers.






Holy cow, I'm about half fire up.


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## stillhunterman

wyogoob said:


> I have been out on the winter range counting birds for the Christmas Bird Count. We've been doing it for over 30 years and look forward to seeing all the wintering deer and elk. In spite of heavy snow and fresh snow, this year is the worst we seen for wintering deer north and east of Evanston.
> 
> *So far it looks like in 2013 they will offer for sell an unlimited number of over-the-counter resident deer tags*.


That doesn't sound good at all goob. I'm hearing a LOT of the same thing about how bad the herd is in the southwest. At this point, not sure what can be done. The WGF are hurting for revenue and as I understand it something like 60 percent is from tag/license sales. What can they do when you are damned if you do and damned if you don't at this point? If they drastically cut tags in '13 in that area, they can probably survive (the WGF) till they get the tag increase funds, but who knows?

Is ANYONE pushing to cut tags in that area, at least on a temporary basis?


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## wyogoob

stillhunterman said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been out on the winter range counting birds for the Christmas Bird Count. We've been doing it for over 30 years and look forward to seeing all the wintering deer and elk. In spite of heavy snow and fresh snow, this year is the worst we seen for wintering deer north and east of Evanston.
> 
> *So far it looks like in 2013 they will offer for sell an unlimited number of over-the-counter resident deer tags*.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't sound good at all goob. I'm hearing a LOT of the same thing about how bad the herd is in the southwest. At this point, not sure what can be done. The WGF are hurting for revenue and as I understand it something like 60 percent is from tag/license sales. What can they do when you are damned if you do and damned if you don't at this point? If they drastically cut tags in '13 in that area, they can probably survive (the WGF) till they get the tag increase funds, but who knows?
> 
> Is ANYONE pushing to cut tags in that area, at least on a temporary basis?
Click to expand...

Wyoming is mineral-royalty rich, has a $900 million surplus in some rainy-day type fund, but we can't get any of the $ for the G & F.

The entities that don't want tag reductions made a good showing at the big game meetings, they are smart, well-organized and....I better quit there. All of the rest that whine about how bad the deer herd is just stay home and watch television.

I worry about the antelope. I worked out in their winter range a lot this summer and fall. Many of the food plants on their winter range dropped their leaves, a defense mechanism during severe drought.


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## Old Fudd

Goofy.OMG! Ya think people been eating them smarter pills?


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## goofy elk

oldfudd said:


> Goofy.OMG! Ya think people been eating them smarter pills?


I'm hopping so fudd!!!!!

I'll still be putting in for 102, one out of four chance to draw with max points (7) .
If/when I draw, going there with my bow , Sept 1 , spend 10 day or so.
Hopfuly kill somthing decent in velvet.


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## wyogoob

102 is a great area. It is limited quota, had around 500 tags in 2012. It's managed as a trophy area. It's not directly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the huge tract of deer country between Jackson Hole and Evanston that is General License area.

Actually it's a great example:
Limited quota area 102 east of the Gorge is about the same size as General License areas 134 plus 168 around Evanston. Deer herd sizes are probably close to the same also.

area 102 - 500 tags
areas 134/168 - no limit, how ever many residents in Wyoming can legally buy a deer tag. Back in the day, over 5,000 deer hunters hunted 134/168 each year.

I'm for changing some of the General License deer areas in western WY to Limited Quota, any deer. I don't like AR, but I'll take it over what we have now, no limits at all.


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## wyogoob

In the next three weeks the Wyoming Game & Fish will be holding public input meetings on setting the final 2013 hunting regs.

The WG&F spokesman said "...........................This is the second year we have held these meetings earlier in the annual hunting season setting cycle. We have committed to gathering public input prior to season development to provide a more meaningful and timely dialog with the public, well in advance of drafting 2013 seasons. This is an opportunity for sportsmen to share any information, observations, or ideas you think would be valuable in developing 2013 hunting season proposals. We are interested in hearing what people have to say prior to drafting seasons and allowing for a more collaboration in developing those seasons. We value public input and encourage people to ask others to get involved................................."

Evanston will hold their meeting Jan 17, 6:30 at the Public Library


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## stillhunterman

wyogoob said:


> In the next three weeks the Wyoming Game & Fish will be holding public input meetings on setting the final 2013 hunting regs.
> 
> The WG&F spokesman said "...........................This is the second year we have held these meetings earlier in the annual hunting season setting cycle. We have committed to gathering public input prior to season development to provide a more meaningful and timely dialog with the public, well in advance of drafting 2013 seasons. This is an opportunity for sportsmen to share any information, observations, or ideas you think would be valuable in developing 2013 hunting season proposals. We are interested in hearing what people have to say prior to drafting seasons and allowing for a more collaboration in developing those seasons. We value public input and encourage people to ask others to get involved................................."
> 
> Evanston will hold their meeting Jan 17, 6:30 at the Public Library


Thanks for the info Goob. Do you have a link to that article? Can't seem to find it on their site. Will you be going to the meeting?


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## wyogoob

stillhunterman said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the next three weeks the Wyoming Game & Fish will be holding public input meetings on setting the final 2013 hunting regs.
> 
> The WG&F spokesman said "...........................This is the second year we have held these meetings earlier in the annual hunting season setting cycle. We have committed to gathering public input prior to season development to provide a more meaningful and timely dialog with the public, well in advance of drafting 2013 seasons. This is an opportunity for sportsmen to share any information, observations, or ideas you think would be valuable in developing 2013 hunting season proposals. We are interested in hearing what people have to say prior to drafting seasons and allowing for a more collaboration in developing those seasons. We value public input and encourage people to ask others to get involved................................."
> 
> Evanston will hold their meeting Jan 17, 6:30 at the Public Library
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info Goob. Do you have a link to that article? Can't seem to find it on their site. Will you be going to the meeting?
Click to expand...

I am on the email list for the Green River District Game & Fish press releases. The web version is not out yet. I will provide a link as soon I get it.

I will make this meeting and try to make all the meetings. If I am out of town I still participate via phone or emails.


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## goofy elk

Goob, Is this referring to permit numbers only?

Because the 2013 proc is out, And the non-res elk applications are open now.
With season dates set, And ARs already published for 2013, Am I correct?


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> Goob, Is this referring to permit numbers only?
> No, this is not solely a big game meeting. The topics can range from deer to martens to crows to grizzly bears. IMO the meetings are scripted and the moderators try to keep us "on course". But in all fairness to the G&F there's only so much you can cover in one evening. The meeting will end up all about deer and antelope though. We just did this in November to set the tentative seasons.
> 
> Because the 2013 proc is out, And the non-res elk applications are open now.
> With season dates set, And ARs already published for 2013, Am I correct?
> No, the seasons are not set, they are tentative. It says that on the applications in the booklets and on the website.
> 
> Historically there's few changes to the regs at this meeting. Although, for years the meeting was much later and the seasons were set in concrete by the time of this meeting. Now the meetings are in January and all the parties still, in theory, have a say in the final seasons. One must note that the tentative seasons that were wrote up a month ago, have been argued over and over by all the important players i.e. the lobbying groups including the outfitters, ranchers, chambers of commerce, the SFW and the Department; so change isn't likely. IMO nothing will change for deer from the Utah border south of Evanston to the Snake River; nothing. There will be a couple deer areas change over around the Green River, 102 is one. I think, well "hope" might be a better word, some antelope areas will change due to what's said at these final meetings.
> 
> We don't care about elk at the moment, or wolves. There's tons of elk in spite of all the wolves.


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## goofy elk

Possibly tag cuts in 102?

I'm on the fence of waiting 3, or so, years to get that permit, OR
going 'special' and perhaps hunting it in 2013.


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> Possibly tag cuts in 102?
> 
> I'm on the fence of waiting 3, or so, years to get that permit, OR
> going 'special' and perhaps hunting it in 2013.


Whoops, 132, not 102, sorry. 132 is going to 3-point or better.

Area 102 - I worked in Clay Basin last winter (December 2011). Rt 191 was closed so to get back and forth to work we drove along the east side of Flaming Gorge then thru Minnies Gap, popular deer winter feed grounds for 102. It didn't look very good and the 2012 hunt wasn't nothing to brag about, rumor has it. I would ask around before putting in for 102. I can put some feelers out if you're interested.


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## goofy elk

IMHO 132 going to 3 point or better is great news!

And goob, I'm always interested in 102 as I have decided thats were I'm
spending my Wyo deer points,,,,,BUT first things first, deciding on elk.

31 OR 24 -Ov- ..

If I happened to draw Wyo elk, I would just buy another Wyo deer point this year


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## swbuckmaster

*Re: Wyoming G&F expanding on Antler restriction hunts*

Not much you can do about drought or winter kill. At least wyoming feeds the game before they starve to death unlike utahs approach to feeding after their dead approach.

The antler restrictions are good news and wish utah would do some especially with the elk. I hate the way utah runs their general elk if its brown its down mentality.


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## goofy elk

100% agree SW!

Wyoming is going the opposite direction in general elk managment than Utah.

12 general season elk units ' excluding spikes ' are in effect this year in Wyo..
Bacicaly, branch antered bulls only on those general units,,, LOVE IT!


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> IMHO 132 going to 3 point or better is great news!
> 
> And goob, I'm always interested in 102 as I have decided thats were I'm
> spending my Wyo deer points,,,,,BUT first things first, deciding on elk.
> 
> 31 OR 24 -Ov- ..
> 
> If I happened to draw Wyo elk, I would just buy another Wyo deer point this year


From what I see and hear, I don't think the timing is right for Deer 102. I would wait.

31 elk is OK. It is manged for quality; has a lot of roads. I have have quite a few friends that have done it. If I was a non-res with horses I would do a General License, not 31 or 24. You could kill just as big a bull and do it twice as often. All ya need is a resource with a pocket full of GPS coordinates. :O•-:


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## wyogoob

I am against antler restrictions around Evanston.

Yes, drought and winterkill has been bad on deer numbers. BUT you can't argue with the fact that there are more and better deer in southwest Wyoming, and Utah south of Evanston, on private ground where there is far less hunting pressure.

So we have a terrible winter; 2010/2011 worst on record for deer winterkill, but we don't cut tag numbers?? Good luck rebuilding the deer herd.


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## goofy elk

I hear ya goob! And, I am planning some general Wyo elk in the future..

BUT, I'm thinking of using my max elk points on 31 or 24 , ARCHERY FRIENDLY!


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## swbuckmaster

*Re: Wyoming G&F expanding on Antler restriction hunts*

Goob
Your 1000% correct tag cuts need to happen "especially" if there are bad winters.

Thats the problem in utah it takes three years of bad winters to make them think something is wrong before they do anything about it. By that time half the deer are gone.

Ill say it till im blue in the face though if people want to see and hunt big bucks "RIFLE" tags are the tags that need to be cut or limited. Ive seen it over and over on general bow only hunts and general rifle hunts. The front gets pounded on opening weekend every year and maybe three deer die on that weekend. If those same hunters were packing rifles the success rate would be off the charts high and there wouldn't be the number of big bucks it has right now.

However even archery can have an effect though. Ive seen it with my own eyes this same area has seen a decline and is now struggling because the dwr wont stop the doe slaughters and its compounded by a couple of bad winters. On the bad winter in 2010 we lost half the deer herd. I cant even say how many deer i found in march dieing or dead with grass growing around them. They didn't stop the doe slaughters in 2011. in fact the pretty much mocked the idea of stopping them.

This brings us to this year with a bad winter and a previous drought. My bet is we loose another 30-50% of the deer that are left.

I personally believe it will take years of rebuilding to get it back to pre 2010. Sad! It all about the $$$


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## wyogoob

goofy elk said:


> I hear ya goob! And, I am planning some general Wyo elk in the future..
> 
> BUT, I'm thinking of using my max elk points on 31 or 24 , ARCHERY FRIENDLY!


Oh yeah, makes sense if you already have the points built up. 31 is great. I haven't hunted 24, but some guys from Evanston I know build up points and hunt it.


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