# How do you think Lake Powell should be refilled?



## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

Make an aqueduct from the Mississippi River, etc.?


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

With 10 + years of good snowpack.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

They could just bypass Lake Powell with the aqueduct and take it straight to the golf courses in St. George too. 
Are you also pondering a pipeline from the Pacific coast to the GSL?


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Here’s an even better hair brained idear. Let’s divert the Green at Fontanelle and run it into the Bear. 
Bam


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

one4fishing said:


> They could just bypass Lake Powell with the aqueduct and take it straight to the golf courses in St. George too.
> Are you also pondering a pipeline from the Pacific coast to the GSL?


No. I don't know why people think the GSL matters so much. It's worthless salt water.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Are you a troll? I feel like you are.


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

one4fishing said:


> Are you a troll? I feel like you are.


No. I am just curious how lake powell or mead can be saved.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Maybe some collective prayer.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Let them go, I say


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## DreadedBowHunter (Sep 22, 2021)

Throw all the politicians, scientists and celebrities in the water to make the water level rise again, and you’ll see the weather modification technology create whatever they need it to be in order to placate the awakened public


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

To "save" Powell and Mead.... An Earthquake would have to take out the entire state of California and Vegas. No people = no need for water. But the grocery prices would triple from what they are now.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I'll just leave this here. You can make your own assumptions.









My assumptions are it's a combined issue of long term drought conditions, and west coasters moving in large numbers and exceeding the carrying capacity of local areas, such as vegas. Lake mead is an interesting story to follow. Lots of peple moved to vegas, and lots of lake evaporation. The water level is already below peak power generation of hover dam. Personally, I think, given the rate at which the lake is dropping, it's pretty much a done deal.

Long term, lack of water along the west coast will force more people to move eastward, which will only further strain our water resources. There won't be enough for everyone. As much as I would like to give the west coast the 1 fingered salute and close flow for our own well being and long term prospects, it would be counterproductive because it would force more migration into our area. We'd be shooting ourselves in the foot. Frankly, I think it's long past time to hang out the "no vacancy sign". If only it were possible.

They (California and surrounding areas) are in the situation they are in because they didn't plan ahead, and their lack of planning effects the entire west. My understanding is the Colorado River Compact, is a rather one sided affair that is primarily to California's advantage. For example, though not part of the river compact itself.. (I think), most , if not all the power generated by hoover dam isn't even used by vegas.. it goes to California.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You’re worried about saving Lake Powell and Lake Mead but call the GSL “worthless saltwater?”

Bold take.


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> You’re worried about saving Lake Powell and Lake Mead but call the GSL “worthless saltwater?”
> 
> Bold take.


I HOPE he was being sarcastic.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that the problem that people have with the GSL is that once the fresh water reaches it the water is of no human consumption value. 

The recreational value for thousands is missed if they don't use it. Also the habitat that surrounds the lake that is used by hundreds of thousands of birds, waterfowl, and other animals.

But back to the original post, bringing water to Lake Powell from the Mississippi or Colombia River areas is really no different than what the Central Utah Bonneville Project did to bring water from the Green and Colorado Rivers to the Wasatch Front of Utah except on a much larger scale. But I was reading the other day about some people along the Mississippi that also don't want a project to take "their" water and send it to Lake Powell. But no matter how you feel something needs to be done. 

But I also remember back in the 70's and early 80's when there were people saying that it would take 30 years for Utah to get their reservoirs back to the full mark along with filling Lake Powell and Lake Mead. Then came 1983.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

legacy said:


> I HOPE he was being sarcastic.


I don’t think we are so lucky.

The GSL is probably the most important body of water we have in the entire state. I’d rather fill it with the remaining water from Lake Powell and Lake Mead using a pipeline to pump it into the salt.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ray said:


> Let them go, I say


Nooooooooooo......... you loose those lakes you loose the power generated by the Hoover and Glen canyon dams. Then those people affected are going to move to other states with power, alot of which probably coming to Utah.

-DallanC


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

Vanilla said:


> You’re worried about saving Lake Powell and Lake Mead but call the GSL “worthless saltwater?”
> 
> Bold take.


Critter explained it well in his first paragraph. 

California should take whatever money they are planning on using for their stupid high speed railway and build desalination plants instead. End the stupid "use it or lose it" water restrictions placed on farmers also.

Looking at that map is very interesting. I also notice we have our own mini continental divide in Utah.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Jbrow327 said:


> Critter explained it well in his first paragraph.
> 
> California should take whatever money they are planning on using for their stupid high speed railway and build desalination plants instead. End the stupid "use it or lose it" water restrictions placed on farmers also.
> 
> Looking at that map is very interesting. I also notice we have our own mini continental divide in Utah.


Critter's statement is misinformed or at very least least misstated. We have had this discussion in the past and it comes down to a change in water laws, usage, and human behavior. "Consumption" can mean a variety of different things.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

To little, to late is what the situation is NOW for Powell and Mead. (More so Lake Powell) Someone (don't know who to point the finger at) should have had a plan for this years ago when the drought was in its second year.

If good old Mother Nature doesn't pull through SOON, it's over. Don't like being a "Debbie Downer" but when it's staring back at you, call it what it is.

If we do get some over average amounts of moisture in a five year period, folks will be crying about flooding and so on.

I think I'm going to head to Alaska and join johnnycake with the Ptarmigan hunting.


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

taxidermist said:


> To little, to late is what the situation is NOW for Powell and Mead. (More so Lake Powell) Someone (don't know who to point the finger at) should have had a plan for this years ago when the drought was in its second year.
> 
> If good old Mother Nature doesn't pull through SOON, it's over. Don't like being a "Debbie Downer" but when it's staring back at you, call it what it is.
> 
> ...


It's not the water coming in that's the problem. The entire western half of the rocky mountains feeds the Colorado River. It's the consumption. States like Nevada and Arizona always come in under there yearly water allotment. California never does.


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## bthewilde (Feb 8, 2018)

Jbrow327 said:


> No. I am just curious how lake powell or mead can be saved.


I don't think there is saving them as "Lakes" maybe small reservoirs, the industries surrounding them will take a hit, but we ain't got the water anymore.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

There's lots of water in the Pacific North West, lots of extra water in the East. Just gotta figure out how to get it here. If you drilled a tunnel below the elevation of the source, level grade to the west, it would flow naturally thousands of miles with no energy use, then its just a matter of lift pumps, which could be solar powered to get it to the surface.

How to drill tunnels that far... that's the hang up. There are several interesting patents out there for nuclear drilling methods, including one I saw a few years ago from DARPA. One is a nuclear powered drill (which requires removal of overburden). Another uses high powered lasers to vaporize and fracture rock, reducing overburden.

It would take too long for a single drill to tunnel from either way to Utah... but a series of drills each tunneling different sections could speed it up. Going "over land" would be incredibly expensive and time consuming trying to get the right-of-ways worked out.

It would have to be one huge tunnel though.

Elon needs to stop with the hyperloop for automobiles and work on water transmission 

-DallanC


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Jbrow327 said:


> Critter explained it well in his first paragraph.


So a body of water’s value is tied only to its human consumptive use?

Another bold take! Me thinks someone ought to study up on the GSL and what benefits it provides to our region. And I’m not just talking the economy.

#DrainPowelltoFillGSL


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

Vanilla said:


> So a body of water’s value is tied only to its human consumptive use?
> 
> Another bold take! Me thinks someone ought to study up on the GSL and what benefits it provides to our region. And I’m not just talking the economy.
> 
> #DrainPowelltoFillGSL


Yes. Humans need water. I don't care about environmental activists.


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

DallanC said:


> There's lots of water in the Pacific North West, lots of extra water in the East. Just gotta figure out how to get it here. If you drilled a tunnel below the elevation of the source, level grade to the west, it would flow naturally thousands of miles with no energy use, then its just a matter of lift pumps, which could be solar powered to get it to the surface.
> 
> How to drill tunnels that far... that's the hang up. There are several interesting patents out there for nuclear drilling methods, including one I saw a few years ago from DARPA. One is a nuclear powered drill (which requires removal of overburden). Another uses high powered lasers to vaporize and fracture rock, reducing overburden.
> 
> ...


Agreed. If they did pipe it though, I'd say start pumping below St. Louis where the Missouri River joins. Then go over south pass in Wyoming and dump it into the green river.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Piping in water from other basins isn't going to happen. We are long past the era in which states cooperate in such a fashion. Not to mention the decade of environmental review it would take to even evaluate such a project.

Lake Powell & Mead will rise & fall based on nature AND how well we learn to conserve. We are a greedy species & Western states will either learn to adapt their behavior or will experience the consequences. 

Get use to using less water, ASAP. And get use to increases in cost as more wastewater is converted into non-potable utility line golf courses, public lawns, etc. 

And it's even possible we all may be looking at a future like Las Vegas's in which waste water is treated and returned to local water systems that provide our culinary water.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Jbrow327 said:


> Agreed. If they did pipe it though, I'd say start pumping below St. Louis where the Missouri River joins. Then go over south pass in Wyoming and dump it into the green river.


I prefer the contrail idea better. I don't like the idea of the invasive carp species found in the Mississippi drainage in the Colorado River system.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Considering the drastic lowering of the water table in the Ogallala aquifer I'm pretty sure there are other states that would like a big share of any water sent west from the Mississippi.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Talk about your hairbrained, crazy, knuckleheaded, childish, higher than six old hippies, goofball, "are you out of your minds", "in all my days", Laurel and Hardy", "did ya hear the one about the guy that walked into a bar..." ideas.
Nobodies going to let you just walk into their state (some even suggest raiding Canadian water) and build a pipeline or aqueduct or canal and steal water to bring to Utah.
And then there's this...think about it for a minute, The amounts of water currently running into or through Utah are not sufficient to even maintain water levels in the lakes in question. Just how big a pipeline or canal would you need to bring in enough water to actually raise the water levels, never mind refill these lakes. Ha ha ha ha ha , ho ho ho ho ho, hee hee hee hee hee...oh man, that's a good one.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Daisy said:


> I prefer the contrail idea better. I don't like the idea of the invasive carp species found in the Mississippi drainage in the Colorado River system.


Good thought but "THEY" are messing it up. The contrail project is supposed to bring rain to the liburl elites in California and drought to the patriots in the interior. The opposite has occurred. 

Not a fan of flying carp? You can take a shotgun out on a fishing trip.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Jbrow327 said:


> Yes. Humans need water. I don't care about environmental activists.


I had a more detailed response typed up, but the wise words of Lil John of the Cake kept ringing in my ears: I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

Yeah, who wants a healthy environment? Who wants a healthy GSL ecosystem that provides economically for our state, crates world class hunting opportunities, and contributes hugely to our snowpack levels in Utah that give humans the water that you say we need?

Stupid environmental activists!


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

Vanilla said:


> I had a more detailed response typed up, but the wise words of Lil John of the Cake kept ringing in my ears: I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
> 
> Yeah, who wants a healthy environment? Who wants a healthy GSL ecosystem that provides economically for our state, crates world class hunting opportunities, and contributes hugely to our snowpack levels in Utah that give humans the water that you say we need?
> 
> Stupid environmental activists!


Yes


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Simple: pipeline directly from the Coors factory


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I think someone missed the point.

GSL = lake enhanced precipitation for the Wasatch.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

backcountry said:


> I think someone missed the point.
> 
> GSL = lake enhanced precipitation for the Wasatch.


Only environmental activists want more precipitation in Utah, backcountry! This thread is about saving Lake Powell and Lake Mead, not precipitation levels. Try to keep up… (or something)


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Bax* said:


> Simple: pipeline directly from the Coors factory


To match the turbidity of the Colorado you'd probably need a microbrewery making a doppelbock. 

It's the only way to get through NEPA without trouble brewing.

It's best to prevent things to coming to a head or worse, to have a powder keg on our hands.

Any water manager that's not a half-pint will know this. And they best hop to it to find out what ales us.

And I've barley started on the subject.


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

backcountry said:


> I think someone missed the point.
> 
> GSL = lake enhanced precipitation for the Wasatch.


Yes. Now that the lake is lower snowpack is also lower I'm assuming.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One thing that I have learned while on the earth for close to 70 years is to never say never. This would pertain to obtaining water from either the Mississippi or Colombia River drainage. Be it a pipeline, or aqueduct. I am sure that people with a lot more knowledge than any of us are looking at something similar. You can't just sit on a stool hoping for a dozen years of higher precipitation.

On the Coors Brewery shipping water, they already do and quite a bit of it is consumed in 12 oz cans and bottles which is then cycled through the sewer system into the Wasatch Front aquifer.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

taxidermist said:


> I think I'm going to head to Alaska and join johnnycake with the Ptarmigan hunting.


New phone, who dis?

We're actually in a drought up here in my part of the Northland. Less than 0.2" of rain at my place since April, when we should have had about 2-2.5" in that same time frame. Which actually bodes really well for the ptarmigan and grouse brood survival this season. It's been hot, dry and buggy and now we are out of the danger zone for weather related chick mortality. Another 10 days and we'll have some brood survey data to see what made it through the winter and hatched out little targets for next month.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Jbrow327 said:


> Agreed. If they did pipe it though, I'd say start pumping below St. Louis where the Missouri River joins. Then go over south pass in Wyoming and dump it into the green river.


This is the hairbained nonsense about an aqueduct. St. Louis sits something like 400 feet above sea level. Lake Powell sits around 3500 ft. 
How does water flow 3000 ft. up hill?


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

one4fishing said:


> This is the hairbained nonsense about an aqueduct. St. Louis sits something like 400 feet above sea level. Lake Powell sits around 3500 ft.
> How does water flow 3000 ft. up hill?


Pumps.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Critter said:


> One thing that I have learned while on the earth for close to 70 years is to never say never. This would pertain to obtaining water from either the Mississippi or Colombia River drainage. Be it a pipeline, or aqueduct. I am sure that people with a lot more knowledge than any of us are looking at something similar. You can't just sit on a stool hoping for a dozen years of higher precipitation.
> 
> On the Coors Brewery shipping water, they already do and quite a bit of it is consumed in 12 oz cans and bottles which is then cycled through the sewer system into the Wasatch Front aquifer.


The chances any of the states with those rivers & drainages allocate water to the CRC signatories or individual states is about as close to zero as you can get.

Take the Columbia. California had been tossing out such ideas for decades. None make it past the laughter of the peanut gallery. What does it say if the 5th largest economy in the world can't grease the wheels for movement in this arena?And if I understand it projects on that drainage require approval from states affected before such projects can even move into study phase.

For the Mississippi you are talking tons of states affected. How do you get all of them to the table to agree to terms of water allocation, one of the most litigious issues in the world. Do we actually think in our current political environment that we can get that many states to compromise?

And then you get into CRC compact state issues. That contract was negotiated ages ago. As this forum highlights the interests of each state has drifted apart a bit. Is Utah going to compromise so CA, NV & AZ can populate their cities more?

Hypotheticals are fun but political reality over something like water is far from ideal.

And then you have a decade or more of environmental reviews at a scale we've rarely seen. Then we have lawsuits and injunctions over every matter from ecosystem health to contract terms. An idea like this, even in the razor thin chance states would agree, wouldn't see a shovel in the dirt for 2 decades.

It's just not happening. And any politician and developer stirring up the idea is distracting us from the harsh truth that we have to change our ways. That's the path ahead and we shouldn't be distracted by the shiny objects being dangled in these hypotheticals.


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

backcountry said:


> The chances any of the states with those rivers & drainages allocate water to the CRC signatories or individual states is about as close to zero as you can get.
> 
> Take the Columbia. California had been tossing out such ideas for decades. None make it past the laughter of the peanut gallery. What does it say if the 5th largest economy in the world can't grease the wheels for movement in this arena?And if I understand it projects on that drainage require approval from states affected before such projects can even move into study phase.
> 
> ...


Politicians can change a lot. If California ended the "use it or lose it" law on farms it would leave the entire west much better off water wise.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Jbrow327 said:


> Pumps.


jbrow327, nobody is saying that mankind isn't capable of engineering and building such a project, but the actual monetary and political challengers are just so astronomical that it might be cheaper to buy everybody a new home in a water abundant area and send them there with a wallet full of money.

These ideas are simply batshouit crazy talk in our world today. I mean, just look at the Americans response to some real emergency like say when Porto Rico got hit with that terrible Hurricane a while back and many, many Americans were screaming about sending them just a little relief aide...can you imagine going to our good neighbors back east and asking them to help build a multi, multi, multi trillion dollar canal from the Mississippi river to Utah so we can water our lawns!


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Jbrow327 said:


> Politicians can change a lot. If California ended the "use it or lose it" law on farms it would leave the entire west much better off water wise.


Such legislation would deal with already allocated and contractually agreed upon water rights. That's in a completely different universe than negotiating new rights.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Jbrow327, what are your thoughts on private property rights generally?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> ... multi, multi, multi trillion dollar canal from the Mississippi river to Utah so we can water our lawns!


All bet all the landowners in the Mississippi Valley who get flooded out every so often from all the extra water would be for it.










-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PS: your property ownership isn't infinite. You do not own all the air space above your house, nor do you own all the ground below your home from your property corners to the center of the earth. IDK how deep ownership goes, above property it extends about 500ft, or into "navigatable air space". That could be applied to below ground ownership.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

DallanC said:


> PS: your property ownership isn't infinite. You do not own all the air space above your house, nor do you own all the ground below your home from your property corners to the center of the earth. IDK how deep ownership goes, above property it extends about 500ft, or into "navigatable air space". That could be applied to below ground ownership.
> 
> -DallanC


Most land owners haven't owned anything under their basements for a long time. Look at mineral rights, if you were not the original owner of the land that homesteaded or settled it all you own is the dirt that your home sits on as far as depth and if some oil company finds oil under your home they will drain it dry and not give you a single cent.


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## bowguyonly (Dec 31, 2018)

DreadedBowHunter said:


> Throw all the politicians, scientists and celebrities in the water to make the water level rise again, and you’ll see the weather modification technology create whatever they need it to be in order to placate the awakened public
> View attachment 152490
> 
> View attachment 152488
> ...


This Stuff has been going on for a LONG TIME.
Several countries control weather. Condensation trails go away not turn into streaky looking rainbows filled with metal particulates. HAARP has no problem pushing climate systems around.

How to fill Lake Powell? Stop selling off water to the people sucking this nation dry. Let them get what they voted for.


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

johnnycake said:


> Jbrow327, what are your thoughts on private property rights generally?


What DallanC said is what I agree with.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Jbrow327 said:


> What DallanC said is what I agree with.


Do you currently own any real property (including water rights)?


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## Jbrow327 (8 mo ago)

johnnycake said:


> Do you currently own any real property (including water rights)?


Yes. No water rights


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

You know, there were people forecasting water becoming a major issue in the west probably over 15 years ago. I remember reading these pieces at the time... goofing off while being a cubical dweller in an IT company. Seemed far fetched at the time. Now, not so much. 

As an aside, not sure what to think about some folks complaining about people watering their lawns. That water could easily be currently in use for gardening to help feed your family and reduce food costs. Espeically in this day and age with inflation and projected food shortages, or food becoming too expensive in price. To that end, lawn clippings have practical value in gardening. Both in compost, and also as to spread around your crops to both reduce weeds, AND retain moister in the soil, less it dry out too fast.

It's a hard sell to tell people not to garden for food.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

backcountry said:


> To match the turbidity of the Colorado you'd probably need a microbrewery making a doppelbock.
> 
> It's the only way to get through NEPA without trouble brewing.
> 
> ...


the real question is: can we paint the canyon walls with a special paint that will let us know when its the right temperature?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

"IF".....It was possible and feasible to take water from other states, like the great mississippi, the cost of a bottle of water would be well over $5. So, in my opinion, it sounds great pumping/piping water to Utah, but economically it's not an endeavor one will take. Hell, they cant even afford to update the infrastructure in the U.S.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Exactly. We can't even agree on maintaining or rebuilding current infrastructure that's critical to our nation as a whole. But we think taxpayers are going to accept paying billions for a few states to get water a thousand miles a way. It's a joke.

How long has St George been working on the long straw and how much progress have they made? How close are new cost estimates to the number locals were sold on?

And St George has it made compared to many municipalities & counties (mine included). I dare say it's less a problem of failing to think big and more a failure in courage of politicians to be honest to they're citizens. They'd rather win reelection than do the hard work of challenging their citizens to rise to the occasion and change their behavior/expectations.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

backcountry said:


> I dare say it's less a problem of failing to think big and more a failure in courage of politicians to be honest to they're citizens. They'd rather win reelection than do the hard work of challenging their citizens to rise to the occasion and change their behavior/expectations.


This. 

From liburl California to MAGA Southern Utah, it is easier for politicians of all stripes to keep pushing growth, to try harebrained schemes to magically fix water issues, and to bury their head in the sand rather than face the grim water reality we all face and discuss and implement real change and modified growth. It also is the fault of the citizens (us) who would rather hear growth, jobs, and "good tidings" from our leaders, implement dumb water wasting rules like HOA codes and city ordinances, and fail to take any of this seriously. So maybe we get what we deserve? 

I read this book when I was a Vegas resident in the nineties. It was prescient then. It is downright prophetic now. 









Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water, Revised Edition: Reisner, Marc: 9780140178241: Amazon.com: Books


Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water, Revised Edition [Reisner, Marc] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water, Revised Edition



www.amazon.com


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

You guys got your mad max outfits ready? I gotta lose a few pounds first or mine is gonna look kinda stupid on me, but the upcoming food shortage should help.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

colorcountrygunner said:


> You guys got your mad max outfits ready? I gotta lose a few pounds first or mine is gonna look kinda stupid on me, but the upcoming food shortage should help.


Yeah, same here. My wife just gave me a disapproving look and rolled the eyes.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Catherder said:


> it is easier for politicians of all stripes to keep pushing growth,


This happens at ALL levels of government, including city/local goverments which have the most impact. Have you been out towards Eagle Mountain, or more stunningly Eagle Valley? (Next LA basin in the making i say) Heck even drive southbound on I-15, take a drive around spanish fork and see all the townhomes going up everywhere. Then keep driving south and take a gander off I-15 around Payson, and Santaquin. Townhomes, townhomes, townhomes, and more townhomes. Growth, growth, growth and more growth. With no end in sight.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

colorcountrygunner said:


> You guys got your mad max outfits ready? I gotta lose a few pounds first or mine is gonna look kinda stupid on me, but the upcoming food shortage should help.


Wait, is that not standard attire for everyone else?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

backcountry said:


> Wait, is that not standard attire for everyone else?


It will be soon....


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

DallanC said:


> All bet all the landowners in the Mississippi Valley who get flooded out every so often from all the extra water would be for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Solenoid stuck open?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

backcountry said:


> Wait, is that not standard attire for everyone else?


I'm partial to my Daytona Dong Sarong in jeans print with a bison robe for added allure


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Well, I regret that Google search and so does my router.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

backcountry said:


> Well, I regret that Google search and so does my router.
> 
> View attachment 152505


You don't even know the first thing about regret.
Yet. 


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

backcountry said:


> Well, I regret that Google search and so does my router.
> 
> View attachment 152505


I, on the other hand, am happy with my google search. This just further confirms that JC is my kinda guy.


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## one4fishing (Jul 2, 2015)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I'll just leave this here. You can make your own assumptions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


California became the WORLDS 5th largest economy with the boost of Colorado River water. I’d say Utah is behind on the planning. We don’t have the climate to do as much with the water as they have done. As much as I’d like to stick it to the west coast I just don’t think watering lawns in St. George is more worthwhile than growing produce and milk in California. 
Utah was naive when the compact was signed. We couldn’t imagine what our state would grow into. California on the other hand planned for the growth. So now it’s our turn to fight to water our data centers.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Daisy said:


> I prefer the contrail idea better.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

The lack of planning I was referring to, was CA not building any damns, reservoirs, and the like. Not surprising since they don't even manage their forests. I would agree that Utah was and probably still is, naive.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> View attachment 152511
> 
> View attachment 152512



Isn't there something in the New Testament about that particular picture?


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Lone_Hunter said:


> The lack of planning I was referring to, was CA not building any damns, reservoirs, and the like. Not surprising since they don't even manage their forests. I would agree that Utah was and probably still is, naive.


This has to be more one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. There are more than 1400 dams/reservoirs in the state. 10 of the largest reservoirs in the US are in California. And that doesn't include the fact that Powell & Mead were partially justified by providing water for all CRC states, including CA. 

California has been one of the most controversial states in US history when it comes to building reservoirs.

And please tell me he's not talking along the ridiculous lines of raking the forests. The feds own 57% of CA's forested land while the state owns 3%. 

How can there be so much misinformation in two sentences?


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

backcountry said:


> And St George has it made compared to many municipalities & counties (mine included). I dare say it's less a problem of failing to think big and more a failure in courage of politicians to be honest to they're citizens. They'd rather win reelection than do the hard work of challenging their citizens to rise to the occasion and change their behavior/expectations.



And then they come up with even bigger hair-brained ideas.









Iron County growers propose 115 new wells into Escalante Valley groundwater


Businessmen in Enterprise are seeking rights to 50,000 acre-feet of water deep under Utah's Escalante Valley, even though this area's groundwater is already overallocated.




www.sltrib.com





Nothing like filing a water right to spite the WCWCD for doing the same thing. 


So, how to fill Lake Powell? Put the pipeline in from Powell to Washington County. Make sure the pumps can move water in both directions. When the deep water wells (5,000 feet!!) are drilled, they'll have plenty of water....


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

There aren't enough face palms for the level "Hocus pocus" water magic people are trying to conjure up.

If only someone had been sounding the alarm about water allocation & use in the West for over a century? If only.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

backcountry said:


> There aren't enough face palms for the level "Hocus pocus" water magic people are trying to conjure up.
> 
> If only someone had been sounding the alarm about water allocation & use in the West for over a century? If only.


They were doing that 100 yrs ago.
In the west water has always been fighting over for while whiskey was for drinking.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Sorry if it wasn't clear, I was being sarcastic. We've been warned about this since John Wesley Powell.


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

DallanC said:


> All bet all the landowners in the Mississippi Valley who get flooded out every so often from all the extra water would be for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With global warming, redistribution of water may be beneficial. Some areas will have more than they want while others are drought-stricken.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> All bet all the landowners in the Mississippi Valley who get flooded out every so often from all the extra water would be for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, I'm jumping in.

I grew up in western Illinois close to the Big River and I'm familiar with floods, with too much water. I also worked for a natural gas cross-country pipeline company from 1969 to 1999.

After a number of significant pipeline failures in the 50s and 60s the Federal DOT mandated that high pressure natural gas pipeline owners upgrade their lines. They gave us 6 or 7 years to get it done. We had a 24" diameter line that ran from west central Texas to Chicago Illinois that was built in the early 1930s that would be very very expensive to recondition and meet the new standards let alone the Government's deadline.

So the forward-thinking company engineers came up with a plan. They proposed to abandon the old gas pipeline and turn it into a water line, pumping water out of Lake Michigan and/or the Mississippi River and sending it to Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas. They would scrub the line free of hydrocarbons and turn all the check valves around. The compressor stations (pumping stations) along the line would pump water instead of natural gas.

Not so forward thinking Legislators, DOT officials and bankers thought they were crazy and the plan was quickly shelved. So we upgraded the 1,000 miles of 24" pipeline and the 90-year old line is still in operation today.

I think there will be a day, long after I'm gone, when America will have a water pipeline system, similar to our interstate highway system or the way natural gas is distributed throughout America. Too much water in Virginia this week? Send it over to Lake Mead. Mississippi flooding? Good, there's room for water in Fontenelle and Flaming Gorge.

It won't be cheap, but still cheaper than desalinization. Yes, fresh water from the ocean, something you'll see more of. Not hard to do (so far on a small scale) just expensive.

Think big.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

DallanC said:


> How to drill tunnels that far... that's the hang up. There are several interesting patents out there for nuclear drilling methods, including one I saw a few years ago from DARPA. One is a nuclear powered drill (which requires removal of overburden). *Another uses high powered lasers to vaporize and fracture rock, reducing overburden.*







__





Robot Designed to Tunnel Through the Earth Incredibly Fast Using Plasma






www.msn.com





-DallanC


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