# IMR white hot or Blackhorn 209



## DevilDog09

Just bought a CVA Accura MR and am trying to figure out the load. What are you guys running as far as loads go? Blackhorn or IMR? What’s your exact load if you don’t mind. It’ll be for elk this year.


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## Critter

Like any rifle you will have to experiment to find the load combination that works in your rifle. 

I use 110 grains by volume of BH209 shooting a Barnes Spitfire T-EZ 250 grain bullet in my Accura.


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## DallanC

Which ever of those two powders you already have. If you dont own Blackhorn, you most likely wont be able to buy any for the rest of the year. Hodgdon bought western powders and now owns the Blackhorn Production. 

Late last year Hodgdon shipped out the powder on hand Western had made, they then stated they would make _one_ more run of Blackhorn at the start of this year and that would be the only run until 2022. That run was made, and that powder shipped out in march. Some recently showed up at Cabelas and Gunnies. Cabelas sold out in hours, and I'd imagine it was the same way at Gunnies.

There are resellers on KSL and other places selling BH209 for around $90 a can. I dont know anything about White other than it has alot of the same problems as 777.

PS: if you shoot bh209, you absolutely without fail MUST clean your ML after shooting. Its hydroscopic and will rust the hell out of your barrel in a short time. The original bottles of BH209 had advertisement that you could let your guns sit without cleaning, but with all the reports of rusted rifles and VERY unhappy smokepole owners, the new bottles had all language removed and they clearly state you must clean your ML now, and that bh209 "soot" is not a protectant.

Personally... pyrodex just always works. Swab between shots, gotta do that with BH209 anyway... its accurate, predictable, and more importantly in the covid world, its available on shelves right now.

-DallanC


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## rtockstein

Go for the authentic holy black!!!! It can be cleaned easily with water.

Dallan, I didn't know they bought western! When did that happen? I need to go find an article on it now


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## Irish Lad

Dallas C,
What are the issues with 777? All I've ever used are the 50 gr pellets. Thanks


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## DevilDog09

I read that Blackhorn had been bought. Interesting enough, I just bought some on Cabelas website, like 5 minutes ago....here’s hoping I don’t get an email telling me it’s out of stock. I appreciate all the help. It’s interesting because CVA recommends the IMR Whitehots in their Accura s. What are the issues you all have had with whitehots or Triple 7?


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## Packout

I also bought BH209 today from Cabelas. Never used it. I'll be testing BH209, 777, and FFF black. Loose and pellets. And I'll start with what has been working for others. I think it is best to test the advice rather than starting blind.


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## DallanC

DevilDog09 said:


> I read that Blackhorn had been bought. Interesting enough, I just bought some on Cabelas website, like 5 minutes ago....here’s hoping I don’t get an email telling me it’s out of stock.


Interesting! I checked last night and there wasnt any. I bought 2 cans a couple weeks ago when it showed up for a short time. Those did arrive so I'm confident yours will as well. I'm really curious if Hodgdon got some feedback from shooters and they did another run... they stated they would only do 1 this year, but if mroe powder is showing up, its being created somewhere... either that or they didnt ship out all they made from the first run.

Either way, congrats on scoring a bottle. Cabelas is the priciest when it comes to powder compared to Scheels or Gunnies.



> I appreciate all the help. It’s interesting because CVA recommends the IMR Whitehots in their Accura s. What are the issues you all have had with whitehots or Triple 7?


Well, to be fair alot of people love 777. I tried it and it was terribly inaccurate. It was as filthy as Pyrodex and required the same swabbing between shots as with Pyro. Unfortunately, even swabbing between shots groups were 2 to 3x the size of Pyro groups. IDK why... it was terrible. I gave up after a couple dozen shots, tried a test group with normal Pyro RS and got a nice 1.5" group. People next to me were using 777 as well and they couldnt keep hits on the box they were shooting, let alone anywhere near the bullseye.

I've never shot Whitehots personally, I've just read lots of other peoples postings on fouling, poor accuracy and large velocity differences over a cronograph. YMMV.

Anywho I nearly gave up on BH209 after my last outing, I'm not happy with it at all... but I like a puzzle and I'm trying to figure it out. I have 3 unopened cans and several boxes of new bullets to try and find a combo that works well as well as Pyro. I have _LOTS_ of pyro... I mean WAY too many bottles of the stuff... so worst come to worst, I will switch back over to that.

-DallanC


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## DallanC

Packout said:


> I also bought BH209 today from Cabelas. Never used it. I'll be testing BH209, 777, and FFF black. Loose and pellets. And I'll start with what has been working for others. I think it is best to test the advice rather than starting blind.


In this heat, you will be fine with normal 209s... but come hunting time, you will want the 209Ms. I still have that partial box I traded you for... if you want / need them back hollar. I worked out a different trade and got 200 209Ms from a guy who mistakenly bought mags and needed normal 209s.

Oh, and you will need a BH209 Breech plug for that Accura. There were a bunch on Ebay for like $29 but it looks like they are all gone now. I bought one. Tate bought one he wont be using for a couple years, you could use that for now and replace it when you find them back in stock.

Also, lemme know when you want to go shoot, I need to as well and we can go out and set up an awning to stay out of the sun to prevent faces from melting off.

-DallanC


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## DallanC

BH209 Accura Breech:









CVA AC1611BH Replacement Breech Plug Muzzle for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CVA AC1611BH Replacement Breech Plug Muzzle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





-DallanC


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## flinger

Packout said:


> I also bought BH209 today from Cabelas. Never used it. I'll be testing BH209, 777, and FFF black. Loose and pellets. And I'll start with what has been working for others. I think it is best to test the advice rather than starting blind.











CVA® Blackhorn™ Breech Plug for Nitride Guns - 209 Primer - AC1651BH


Nitride CVA Blackhorn™ 209 Breech Plug - QRBP made for loose powder, Fits all CVA Inline Muzzleloaders. Best Prices, Fast Shipping, No Sales Tax!




www.muzzle-loaders.com





$30 Blackhorn plug for cva accura currently in stock here. It fit well in the PR. 

Conversion kit for shooting large rifle primers instead of 209 primers although in not sure if it will work with previous models of accura, but might be worth looking into. Apparently there is supposed to be more consistency with rifle primers.









CVA™ QRBP Variflame™ Conversion Kit for CVA Accura MR-X & LR-X - AC1737


Shop Now! CVA® QRBP™ Variflame Kit w/ 10 Adapters - AC1737 - Converts CVA Accura MR-X & LR-X Muzzleloaders from 209 shot-shell primer ignition into a large rifle primer ignition. Best Prices, Fast Shipping, Expert Advice!




www.muzzle-loaders.com





Another option to consider but more expensive:





Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP CVA Replacement Breech Plug – Arrowhead Rifles







www.arrowheadrifles.com


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## taxidermist

BH209 sucks IMO. I don't see the big hype of the crap. All it did for me was cost an extra $15 for less powder and nothing but headaches trying to get it to pattern. I gave the bottle to a guy that loved the stuff a couple years ago.


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## Critter

When I got my CVA Accura .50 I tried 777, Prodex, and BH209. The Blackhorn gave me my best accuracy with the Barnes 250 grain T-EZ bullets that I was shooting along with very little velocity spread over my chronograph.

As they say, you need to find the combination of powder, load, and bullet to see what works best for you. 

In my Thompson Center Triumph it is the 300 grain .501 Thor bullets over 100 grains of Pyrodex.


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## taxidermist

Critter said:


> When I got my CVA Accura .50 I tried 777, Prodex, and BH209. The Blackhorn gave me my best accuracy with the Barnes 250 grain T-EZ bullets that I was shooting along with very little velocity spread over my chronograph.
> 
> As they say, you need to find the combination of powder, load, and bullet to see what works best for you.
> 
> In my Thompson Center Triumph it is the 300 grain .501 Thor bullets over 100 grains of Pyrodex.


Working loads up is the best part of the ML world IMO. I'm sure I could have played around more to get a tight group, but like my Dad would always tell me...."If it isn't broke, don't try and fix it". I've had great accuracy and killed many animals using 777 FFF and have stayed with that load for over 10 years. Works for me and my rifles, so I'm not messing with the loads anymore.


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## Fowlmouth

I always used Pyrodex RS in my .50 caliber rifles and it always patterned very well with different bullets. Anything between 85-100 grains of powder just plain worked good. As mentioned, it is dirty stuff and cleaning between every shot or two is necessary. 
I have only used Triple 7 fffg in my Accura for the short time I have had it. I really like that powder, it is much cleaner burning and patterns great. I did not get the "crust ring" that others have had. I will continue to use Triple 7 with 95 grains of powder with the Hornady SST 200 gr. and the Powerbelt ELR 280 gr. bullets. (.45 caliber)


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## colorcountrygunner

Last year I tried some bh209 for the first time in my wifes new Thompson Center FX Pro Hunter. I seemed to get slightly better groups with it than the pyrodex pellets I was using. I mainly wanted to try it because of people saying how clean it was. It didn't seem all that clean to me and I think the amount of cleaning it required was about on par with pyrodex. After this bh209 runs out I will probably just got back to loose pyrodex powder. A 90 grain charge seems to always give serviceably good accuracy and kills stuff deader n hell while giving you a little more shots per bottle than you'd get with a heavier load.


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## BearLakeFishGuy

I used Powerbelt bullets (.50 cal) in 295 grain copper with two White Hot pellets (100 grains total charge, 50 grain/pellet) and have wonderful groups out to 300 yards! The White Hot is clean buring (better than 209, 777 or Pyrodex, of which I tested them all). My rifle is a CVA Accura with a Konus 3x9 BDC scope designed for the Accura rifle. I love them both!


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## Fowlmouth

Looks like Blackhorn 209 is back in stock.
Blackhorn® 209 Powder Black Powder Substitute | 5lb or 10oz Bottle | Muzzle-Loaders.com


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## DallanC

Cabelas too:



https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/blackhorn-209-high-performance-muzzleloading-powder



I'm guessing Hodgdon got some push back when they announced they would only do one production run earlier this year, and did some more runs. Gunnies had it in stock as well (IDK if they still do).

Anywho, do the Cabelas ship to store to save on hazmat.

-DallanC


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## Critter

Fowlmouth said:


> Looks like Blackhorn 209 is back in stock.
> Blackhorn 209 Powder Black Powder Substitute | 5lb or 10oz Bottle | Muzzle-Loaders.com


So much for the notify me option on that site, I have been on the notification list now for 3 months and no email. 

Cabela's getting it in stock must be a Utah thing. I have been checking 3 Cabela's, a Bass Pro, and 3 Sportsman's and none of them have had any available for ship to store in the last 3 or 4 months.

I'm just going to stretch out my supply until after the hunts and just get some when I see it on the shelves 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## DallanC

No, its online... all of those should pull from the same inventory. Just buy online and ship to store for free / no hazmat. then just pick it up whenever.

-DallanC


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## Critter

When I tried to ship to store it tells me that it is unavailable for ship to store.

I just went back and checked again and it is now available for ship to store. Now I just need to decided if I want to give any business to Bass Pro


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## Fowlmouth

My local Wally World is loaded with Blackhorn 209.


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## Fowlmouth

Still 8 bottles of Blackhorn sitting on the shelf at Walmart. I was surprised to see them there actually, considering guys are selling them for $100 a bottle on ksl.


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## Packout

That gives hope. I went to our local Walmarts and they didn't have any. I have one bottle, but with 3 ML hunters and needing to site in 2 of them I'll need another bottle.


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## DallanC

I have 3 unopened bottles atm... if you run out, hollar. I'm hoping to get out shooting soon to try and work up a accura load with the new scope.

PS: Cabelas still has it available for ship to store. They charge alot for it though.

-DallanC


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## DevilDog09

I got two bottles of Blackhorn 209. I returned the one from Cabelas, sucker was $15 more expensive. Here’s a new issue though. I put in the CVA blackhorn breech plug and now the gun won’t open back up....I’m stumped. Anyone else have this issue? I gave it a good amount of force but she won’t break back open.


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## Critter

Are you sure that it was screwed in all the way? 

You man have to hold the unlatching lever and smack it on the pivot point over your leg.


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## DevilDog09

Critter said:


> Are you sure that it was screwed in all the way?
> 
> You man have to hold the unlatching lever and smack it on the pivot point over your leg.


Yea, I seated it with the tool they gave and the sucker is locked in. I spanked it like Charles Ingles spanked his kids on little house on the prairie. The hammer won’t lock back either. I’ll keep at her. This would be an awfully troublesome problem if I needed a quick follow up shot and the breech would open.


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## Critter

Send a email to CVA customer service and see what they may say. 

I broke the front sling swivel mount and forend on my Accura and they returned my email the same day when I asked how much it would cost to replace. After sending them a couple of pictures of the type of forend they sent me a new one free of charge.


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## Fowlmouth

Could the firing pin/spring be the issue?


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## DevilDog09

I was able to get it open. I put the factory plug back in and everything works beautifully. It’s this blackhorn plug


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## Critter

I'm not sure if they make different plugs for their muzzle loaders but are you sure that you got the right one? Have you compared it with the stock one? 

I had no problem with I put the Bh209 plug into my Accura. 

You might want to look at the stock one real close when it is installed and then install the 209 one and see if you can see any difference.

Just don't close it.


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## DevilDog09

Yea it’s the blackhorn Breech plug for the accura. Maybe it’s just a bad one. I’ll have to see what muzzle-loader.com will do about it. It’s the exact same as the stock plug, just has loose powder alteration.


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## DevilDog09

Spoke with CVA today. Apparently this is a common issue. The fix - tighten the new plug finger right, then turn it another quarter turn with the tool, tap it if need be with a hammer, then loosen it back out. You are essentially reforming the barrel to the plug. Pulled it out, and put it back in and works like a charm now.


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## DallanC

Thats stupid. I have two plugs for the CVA I bought, one for pyro, one for BH209. The barrel needs to work with both (and they do). I've read of issues with 3rd party plugs... but not cva branded. Its nice having the tool though from the BH209 kit... surprised it didnt come with the gun by default.

Put a good health dab of this on your threads though:











-DallanC


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## 1trhall

DallanC said:


> Which ever of those two powders you already have. If you dont own Blackhorn, you most likely wont be able to buy any for the rest of the year. Hodgdon bought western powders and now owns the Blackhorn Production.
> 
> Late last year Hodgdon shipped out the powder on hand Western had made, they then stated they would make _one_ more run of Blackhorn at the start of this year and that would be the only run until 2022. That run was made, and that powder shipped out in march. Some recently showed up at Cabelas and Gunnies. Cabelas sold out in hours, and I'd imagine it was the same way at Gunnies.
> 
> There are resellers on KSL and other places selling BH209 for around $90 a can. I dont know anything about White other than it has alot of the same problems as 777.
> 
> PS: if you shoot bh209, you absolutely without fail MUST clean your ML after shooting. Its hydroscopic and will rust the hell out of your barrel in a short time. The original bottles of BH209 had advertisement that you could let your guns sit without cleaning, but with all the reports of rusted rifles and VERY unhappy smokepole owners, the new bottles had all language removed and they clearly state you must clean your ML now, and that bh209 "soot" is not a protectant.
> 
> Blackhorn 209 is *virtually non-hygroscopic*. Changes in temperature or humidity do not affect performance. Blackhorn 209 will not setup or degrade like some other propellants. Shelf life is essentially unlimited.


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## Critter

DallanC said:


> Thats stupid. I have two plugs for the CVA I bought, one for pyro, one for BH209. The barrel needs to work with both (and they do). I've read of issues with 3rd party plugs... but not cva branded. Its nice having the tool though from the BH209 kit... surprised it didnt come with the gun by default.
> 
> Put a good health dab of this on your threads though:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -DallanC



That's a lifetime supply isn't it?


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## DallanC

Boy I thought so when I got it... turns out I'm using that stuff everywhere I dont use Loctite. ROFL! My bottle is nearly empty.

Latest use I learned is a thin coat on the backside of rotors to keep them from rusting on. That is working out slick

-DallanC


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