# 223 Antelope bullet?



## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

I am exploring having my wife use my CZ 527 in 223 for a doe antelope hunt next year. She has a 7mm-08 and is a crack shot with it but loves shooting the 223 in comparison. (I am also looking into a brake for the 08) 
So I would like to test the 223 just to see. I understand the 223 isn't the best but I also want my wife to enjoy it and want to continue hunting/shooting. 
It has a 1 in 12 twist so will struggle with heavy weight bullets but should be able to push a 55 grainer well enough. I currently shoot the 53 gr hornady vmax very well. Was going to look into the Barnes but would like to hear if anyone else has had good results with a quality bullet?


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Nosler Partitions 60 gr. 
They say 1-12" twist so you should be fine and its one of the best bullets out there!


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Partition would be an excellent choice, the Barnes would be great too.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I agree with the others... and just want to ask, has she tried shooting the 120grn BT-Hunting bullets out of the 7mm08? Very very light recoiling and fun loads with plenty of knockdown power. My 12 year old boy shot 2 antelope with his 7mm08 this year and that bullet.


-DallanC


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I haven't shot DallanCs combo but it sounds like the way to go. If you're still intent on going to a.223 I think the bullet Mike suggested would be great.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Wait a second! As an experienced gun-runner trying to sneak new guns into my safe without the wife's knowledge, I see what you're doing! You're looking for an excuse to buy a new gun! "I'm doing it just for you dear"! Riiiiiiight! (Hope you pull it off. Us guys on UWF got your back).


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Longbow, yeah that's not a bad idea.
I have considered the 110 gr tipped triple shocks from Barnes. Would like to try them in my 7mag as well.
Her 08 shoots 140 gr accubonds and the 139 gr SST/gmx. I wouldn't say a reduced load but definitely in the bottom half of what the manuals list for charges. 
Guess I will try the 60 gr partitions and a lighter bullet in the 08.
Thanks for the insight fellas


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Barnes 53 Gr TSX - says it needs a 1:12 twist so it should work! You could go to a 50 Gr TTSX that would work well also. 

I'm sure a 55 gr soft point would be a good choice as well. I'm curious to see what you end up goin with!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

223 certainly is enough to get them. I have two friends who did so. The 223 certainly is a flatter trajectory too, as you already know, it is just a matter of a quality bullet to finish the deal. The TTSX is great as is the Partition and you certainly can't argue against the results that Dallin has had. Let us know how it goes. If it were my wife, I think I would go with the Barnes in 223.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

I've seen two speedgoats taken with a .22-250. They both went down as though struck by lightning. I would think a .223 with partitions would be darn near perfect.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

A bit off the subject of the .223 and antelope bullets - but decent heavy hunting bullets in .22 caliber brings up a bit of a rant:

Obviously the .22-250 with its higher than .223 velocity would make a good antelope rifle. But you are limited to light bullets like the Barnes 50-gr TSX.
The excellent Nosler 60-gr Partition is temperamental in the caliber-standard 1-14" twist barrel of the .22-250 with stability problems at longer range in a most rifles.

Meanwhile the .223/5.56 has advanced the state-of-art in .22 caliber bullets because of the AR-driven use of fast 1-9" to 1-7" twist rates that stabilize long 70 to 80 grain bullets respectively. The 60-grain Partition is a breeze in 1-12" or faster .223s. Bolt action .223s have been slowly moving over to at least 1-9" twists following the AR trend. Even 40-grain plastic-tipped bullets seem to do amazingly well in twists once thought too fast.

However only Savage offers a 1-9" twist .22-250 as far as I know. This should stabilize up to 75 grain bullets (1-8" is needed for 80-grain bullets or the Barnes 70 TSX).

Why haven't the rest left the 1960s/70s and switched to a faster twist?

The reason for the 1-14" twist in the .220 Swift and inherited by the .22-250 is that back in the day little bullets used for varmints weren't all that concentric and fast twist just accentuated that imbalance inaccuracy by spinning them faster.
The cure was to spin them more gently _ala_ 1-14".

Today's tighter bullet manufacturing tolerances give us bullets that are very concentric and can be spun at high rpm in fast twists. So we can shoot short varmint bullets in fast twist - which coincidentally will also stabilize long, high ballistic coefficient bullets that are more effective on light big game.

So when is Remington (Model 700), Ruger (M77), Tikka, Weatherby/Howa, etc. going to improve a good cartridge by adding versatility.

Who would have thought 25 years ago that Savage would be the leading innovator (AccuTrigger, 1-9" .223/22-250) in American bolt action rifles?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I shot a antelope with a 7mm Rem mag with a slightly reduced load with a 120 grain Barnes TSX and it was lights out. I would suspect that out of a 7mm-08 would do the same thing if you reload.


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Critter,
I've always wanted to try the 110 gr tipped triple shock in the mag just to see how fast I could get it. I'm sure it would be devastating to antelope. I like your idea of the reduced load and will try it in the 08. 
Any thoughts on how much terminal velocity I should maintain for antelope and doe antelope at that?
Will also try the partitions and barnes in the 223. Looks like I will have to spend some time reloading and shooting this summer. At least I can tell my wife I'm doing it all for her.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

According to the Barnes load data you can get that 110 TSX up to around 3500fps out of a 7mm Rem mag. I had the 120grain TSX loaded down to 3000 fps in mine and had no problems out to 400 yards except for in a stiff wind, but you will have that problem with just about any lighter bullet.

The nice thing about a antelope is that they are not hard to kill and just about any shot into their vitals is going to drop them.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

Frisco Pete said:


> A bit off the subject of the .223 and antelope bullets - but decent heavy hunting bullets in .22 caliber brings up a bit of a rant:
> 
> Obviously the .22-250 with its higher than .223 velocity would make a good antelope rifle. But you are limited to light bullets like the Barnes 50-gr TSX.
> The excellent Nosler 60-gr Partition is temperamental in the caliber-standard 1-14" twist barrel of the .22-250 with stability problems at longer range in a most rifles.
> ...


You always have great info Frisco! I've always wondered why the big companys continue to produce the 22-250 in 1-14" twist. The caliber would be excellent for those larger longer bullets.
One question I have and sorry its of the topic abit from the OP but I have reloaded the 53 gr v-max for the 22-250 and it says in the manual that it requires a faster than 1-14" twist to stabilize properly. 
I didn't know this as it doesn't say on the box and it was during the 22 cal shortage. I decided to load them up anyway with some H380 and I shoot a Rem 700 SPS and have not had a problem at all with accuracy. I have shot out to 500 yards and had decent groups with no key holing. 
I guess the question is why is the 50 and 55 gr v-max fine in the 1-14" but the 53 not?


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## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

For the life of me, in .22-250 I have no idea of why the 53 V-Max would have that sort of twist warning.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I think the difference is the 53 gr V max is actually longer than the 55 gr. I don't have any 55 gr vmax to measure, but the 53 is longer than a 55 gr Nosler. The 55 v max is a flat base whereas the 53 gr is a boat tail. My savage 22-250 has a 1:12 twist so I thought I'd give me a try. I haven't had the chance yet, but I'm sure they'll do well.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

waspocrew said:


> I think the difference is the 53 gr V max is actually longer than the 55 gr. I don't have any 55 gr vmax to measure, but the 53 is longer than a 55 gr Nosler. The 55 v max is a flat base whereas the 53 gr is a boat tail. My savage 22-250 has a 1:12 twist so I thought I'd give me a try. I haven't had the chance yet, but I'm sure they'll do well.


 This is what I thought but didn't have the 55 gr to make sure. I have a 1-14" in my gun and the 53 do really well for me. I actually love how they perform on coyotes!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

.22-250 is a speed demon. Slower twists = faster bullets, but like people note: they don't stabilize heavier bullets as well. My Rugar #1 22-250 has a 1/14" twist as well. I've never felt limited by 55grn bullets.


-DallanC


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Big gun companies are ridiculously slow to embrace new ideas and technology. I think they inherit this from the military. The Army adopted the Springfield Trapdoor in the 1870's using the logic that the troops would waste ammo if issued the modern repeaters of the day. A minor skirmish at the Little Big Horn River showed the folly of that logic. The M1 Garand met with the same sentiment. That is why the Marine Corps was equipped with the 03-A3 for most of WWII. 
Another reason may be is that the manufactures have a large stock of blanks bored for the 22 caliber, and rifled with the 1:14 twist. And they are certain that no one would ever want to shoot heavy bullets out of the 22-250 or 220 Swift. They never did that back in the 1960's, so why would they want to today.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

This just got me thinking - how neat would it be to take a BBL 223 barrel with a 1-9 or 1-8 or 1-7" twist and put it on a 22-250?

It shoots the same caliber bullet. As long as you could get the barrel on the action, it should work.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The barrels are out there and all you need to do is rechamber them for the round of your choice.

You can take your pick of any of these barrels. Then chamber and install on your action.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm not particularly good at breaking new ground.

I could see where if you went down to a 1-9" twist you might start having bullets fly apart at the velocities of a 22-250. I don't want to drop all of that money into a gun to find out that the bullets spin so fast they disintegrate.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Dodger said:


> I'm not particularly good at breaking new ground.
> 
> I could see where if you went down to a 1-9" twist you might start having bullets fly apart at the velocities of a 22-250. I don't want to drop all of that money into a gun to find out that the bullets spin so fast they disintegrate.


Its a important point to consider. I've had this trouble with very fast 40grn bullets out of my 1/14 twist .22-250... they come out and go "poof" midway down range.

-DallanC


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

DallanC said:


> Its a important point to consider. I've had this trouble with very fast 40grn bullets out of my 1/14 twist .22-250... they come out and go "poof" midway down range.
> 
> -DallanC


Ya, I had that trouble with my 22 CHeetah!


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

If you end up using .223 id recommend restricting yourself to closer range. Antelope are small but tough for their size. I like dallan's advice


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Yeah definitely going to shoot for as close as shot as possible. Somewhere just far enough that my wife doesn't look into their big brown eyes.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

We bought my son (14 and very small) a 7mm-08 this fall. We loaded up reduced loads and he had no problems at all. Have you tried loading some of the Hodgdon reduced loads with some 120gr BT's? They really are very easy on the shoulder and are produced pretty good groups for us.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Gdog. Thanks for the link. I've loaded on the slower end but not really a reduced load. I met a guy today who worked with a custom reload shop as well as savages rifle team. He also suggested the ballistic tips. Guess I will have to work up one more load, its a sacrifice I'm willing to make.


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