# steel shot



## duckkiller29 (Oct 7, 2010)

So I see this black cloud shot in walmart and it's way over priced. Anyway that beside the point is it worth it's wait and gold. Or should i buy the ten dollar stuff?


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## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

That stuff is garbage in my opinion. Not worth the money.


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## Markthehunter88 (Nov 5, 2010)

I agree... i go with the cheap stuff and ducks keep fallin'


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Blackcloud has its place and it will work as advertised but few folks have the wingshooting skills to benefit from using it. It is made to hold tighter patterns at long range, that flight control wad does in fact do that.

If you are shooting over decoys, you probaly will not like it. At close range if you hit a duck with it, it will generally tear the duck to peices. 

Get the cheap Expert loads, they will kill duck just fine.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

when you can get Black Cloud for $7.50/box its not garbage. Although i still prefer Federal Premium.
What is the price at wally world these days??


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Yo D, I was lucky enough to buy some at that price once, sure wish I could again!


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

tshuntin said:


> Yo D, I was lucky enough to buy some at that price once, sure wish I could again!


you just got to know the right people who work at the right place.


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## muledeer#1 (Dec 2, 2008)

Heavy metal that's all ya need!


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

muledeer#1 said:


> Heavy metal that's all ya need!


1+


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## KennyC (Apr 28, 2010)

I would have to say if you are using the 3 1/2" and shooting Geese or Swan then they have a purpose. If you are decoying ducks and taking closer shots then save your money and spend it on filling a Swan tag or shooting geese. I personnally use whatever works best in my gun.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

shells ain,t the the same sence you can,t use led any more and that sucks; led gets them dead;


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## duckkiller29 (Oct 7, 2010)

Klark true that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I really hate to help inflate the overly large head of an out of control southerner, but MOJO is spot on IMO. The steel doesn't kill any better than any other steel, but the wad works as advertised and produces a particular load for a particular need. I shoot it ~20% of the time and like it in those circumstances.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Joel Draxler said:


> I really hate to help inflate the overly large head of an out of control southerner, but MOJO is spot on IMO. The steel doesn't kill any better than any other steel, but the wad works as advertised and produces a particular load for a particular need. I shoot it ~20% of the time and like it in those circumstances.


Federal designed those Flight Control wads for long range, super tight turkey loads that us southerners could shear off the heads of those old toms, boy did they hit a home run with those wads. :lol:

Someone at federal thought why not load them with steel shot and Black Cloud was born.

I use them later in the year when the birds get wary and don't decoy in close. I like the 3" #3 load, those in my gun with a LM tube is the ticket.

Note, if you use an aftermarket wad restricting/grabbing style choke tube (such as a patternmaster), you best pass on those black cloud loads, those wads can become hung in the choke tube and when fired again, the results can be undesirable, as in kaboom you blow up your barrel. They make tubes just for those, plus most all factory chokes are safe to use.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

My dad heard good things about Black Cloud so he picked up a box of 12 gauge 3.5 inch BBB Black cloud shells for use on high flying geese. 

What do you think the effective range would be with this load? The box says it will increase range by up to 15 yards. Would it be realistic to think I could bring a goose down at 55 yards with this stuff?


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I'll tell you this much- it took four 3" BB loads of BC to kill one dang goose for me last year. The first shot was at a bird that had just jumped to fly off at about 35 yards. It knocked it down alright, but it definitely didn't kill it. I shot it 3 more times as it tried to swim off, each time thinking "how the hell did the last shot not finish him???" Geese are tough birds, but not THAT tough. I'm convinced BC isn't much better than anything else. And for those of you who doubt my experience, suspecting I was missing, I wasn't. I saw the pellets hitting the bird and the water in front of, as well as behind it.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Clarq said:


> My dad heard good things about Black Cloud so he picked up a box of 12 gauge 3.5 inch BBB Black cloud shells for use on high flying geese.
> 
> What do you think the effective range would be with this load? The box says it will increase range by up to 15 yards. Would it be realistic to think I could bring a goose down at 55 yards with this stuff?


Without starting an ethics debate on shoot distance limits, I am sure there are folks who can kill geese at 55 yards, and even beyond that.

It really comes down to a several factors, a shooters ability to hit the target, the gun/loads ability to throw a dense enough pattern that puts enough pellets on target at (X) range to kill the bird and the downrange energy those pellets carry at that range.

I would think if a person hit a goose solidly at 55 yards with a BBB load, you should be able to kill it.

On a side note, I have noticed that a lot of folks I shoot with can not accurately judge distance on targets, could be a lot of long shots are not as long as they appear. Just like in bow hunting it takes practice to consistently judge distance correctly. I misjudge the range a lot myself.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Chaser said:


> I'll tell you this much- it took four 3" BB loads of BC to kill one dang goose for me last year. The first shot was at a bird that had just jumped to fly off at about 35 yards. It knocked it down alright, but it definitely didn't kill it. I shot it 3 more times as it tried to swim off, each time thinking "how the hell did the last shot not finish him???" Geese are tough birds, but not THAT tough. I'm convinced BC isn't much better than anything else. And for those of you who doubt my experience, suspecting I was missing, I wasn't. I saw the pellets hitting the bird and the water in front of, as well as behind it.


 :shock: I sure hope it doesn't perform that way for us.

Maybe it took so many shots because your pattern wasn't dense enough to hit it in the head? It has been my experience with Geese that you can hit them in many places to bring them down but you need to hit them in the head to finish them off. I had to shoot a swan on the water 5 times before I finished it off. I think it was because my pattern wasn't dense enough (3 inch BB load).

Now I'm worried about pattern density with BBB loads.  Oh well. We have it and we will use it.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

i got a case of blind side to try this year. I will let you know how it works.
I have had poor results with BC. Then i started to use REM Hypersonics. The REM rounds do work the extra speed does change things.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hoopermat said:


> i got a case of blind side to try this year. I will let you know how it works.
> I have had poor results with BC. Then i started to use REM Hypersonics. The REM rounds do work the extra speed does change things.


Funny how different folks have different luck with different loads. Every gun is different.

I tried those Hypersonics, worst shell I tried last year. :lol:

I have heard mixed reports on the Blind Sides, gonna wait a while to try them.

I did pick up a box of that new Kent all purpose steel load, I'll let you know how they work.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Black Cloud, Blind Side, Busmuth, Heavy Shot, Tungsten, Heavy Metal and all others are very good at marketing, and money is what it is all about. I prefer 3" #2 Estates over any of the above and they are a hell of a lot less expensive too. I have never had a problem bringing down birds, unless I just plain miss the shot. I even resorted to shooting Experts last year and did pretty darn good with those cheap shells. The bottom line is, you either hit the bird or you don't. I'm on the opposite spectrum when it comes to shooting steel, I like the slower speeds over the supersonic or fast steel, somewhere around 1350-1500 fps is what I like.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Clarq said:


> Now I'm worried about pattern density with BBB loads.  Oh well. We have it and we will use it.


Pattern them, all it takes is a piece of cardboard and a pen. that or just test them on a goose decoy. :lol:

you can tell real quick how far away a load works.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Mojo1 said:


> On a side note, I have noticed that a lot of folks I shoot with can not accurately judge distance on targets, could be a lot of long shots are not as long as they appear. Just like in bow hunting it takes practice to consistently judge distance correctly. I misjudge the range a lot myself.


You bring up an excellent point. My dad was who taught me what 40 yards was. While we were hunting, it seemed that we could never hit anything past 30 yards.

We found out why one day when we went to pattern our shotguns. We walked out to what we thought was about 40 yards and ranged it with the rangefinder. What I had always been taught was 40 yards turned out to be nearly 60 yards! No wonder we couldn't hit anything at that range. :roll:

I would recommend that everyone find out what 40 yards really is if you haven't already. I absolutely couldn't believe I'd been wrong all that time.

And... If my skybusting bothered you many years ago, I'm sorry. I actually thought that those birds were in range.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

All I can say about that Black Cloud Crap is it rips ducks to shreds. From a Taxidermists standpoint it sux! :evil: Mojo1 brought me a full limit of cin teal to mount up he'd shot with that garbage and only 2 were mountable. Every time I skin a bird shot with that junk it ends up being a nightmare. If you're looking to mount your birds stay away from shooting them with little flying saucers! :x


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> All I can say about that Black Cloud Crap is it rips ducks to shreds. From a Taxidermists standpoint it sux! :evil: Mojo1 brought me a full limit of cin teal to mount up he'd shot with that garbage and only 2 were mountable. Every time I skin a bird shot with that junk it ends up being a nightmare. If you're looking to mount your birds stay away from shooting them with little flying saucers! :x


True it messes up birds bad, so the moral of this statement is if you want to mount them, don't use black cloud, cause trust me, getting an a** chewing from Tex ain't fun. :lol:

I was lucky on my last pair of bull sprigs, they were shot with it. Tex couldn't get them to look right flying, but they did make an excellent dead mount.


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Darin Noorda said:


> tshuntin said:
> 
> 
> > Yo D, I was lucky enough to buy some at that price once, sure wish I could again!
> ...


Amen to that buddy. I used to. Wish I still did.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I bought a bunch of B&Ps many years ago when Outlaw Decoys closed them out. I paid less than $7/box. They have a MV of ~1400FPS. I also bought a bunch of Experts from Cabelas back when they were $62/case delivered. Both work great, thank goodness I have enough to last a long time.

This goose was killed the last Tuesday of the season last year. It wasn't all that shy, but swung right into the spead. It took a 2 3/4", 1 1/8 ounce load of #4s at ~23 yards:










I won't be buying any fancy BS loads anytime soon.

PS. Skeet tube, factory.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

^^ 
at 23 yards a squib load of steel #8's out of my 410 would have smoked that bird too.

~

about the subject:

all the loads mentioned have a place at the table. some overkill, some WAY OVERKILL, and yet still some that fill the bill rather nicely. 

First, Its up to the person pulling the trigger to do a little research with their setup and find the load their gun likes to pattern at a respectable range. Second, its up to that same person to do their job as a hunter, get the birds within that range and kill them... not to send some willey nilley, one leg dropping, HAIL MARY CRIPPLER up to the O2 mask wearing migrators that have NO intention of dropping landing gear in the first place, and thus teaching the next flock to fly higher...


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> Black Cloud, Blind Side, Busmuth, Heavy Shot, Tungsten, Heavy Metal and all others are very good at marketing, and money is what it is all about. I prefer 3" #2 Estates over any of the above and they are a hell of a lot less expensive too.


There are differences. I'm sure if you were to go hunt King Eiders on the Bearing Sea you would look at your shell selection a little different. When you may only have one shot to make it happen, that's a lot of faith in a economy load.

I agree on the comments about black cloud destroying birds you want for the wall. I'll use that shell in the first of the season, but when it comes to full plumage birds. No way!!! Late season I'm always hunting for that right bird!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Longgun said:


> ^^
> at 23 yards a squib load of steel #8's out of my 410 would have smoked that bird too.
> 
> ~
> ...


That's my point. At the FB clean up a couple of years ago, I picked up tons of those Black Cloud wads off Center Dike. Trick loads have never been a substitute for hunting skills, hard work or patience.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

I patterned the BC in my Benelli SuperNova, and it did just as well as my everyday Federal loads do. That's what had me so shocked. The bird swam away with its head up, so I know I hit him with it. It just didn't do what I expected it to do. This year I have a dog that can fetch the birds before they swim off, so that should help as well. Don't get me wrong, the shell did a great job knocking it down, but it was awful at finishing him off.


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2011)

tpip bbb pmc for gonzos;


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> Longgun said:
> 
> 
> > ^^
> ...


*A*-(insert expletive of choice here)-*MEN*!


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

i dont want to sound like im pancakeing the BC, because i have on occasion used it with great success. 

Its good stuff, in its own way.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Darin Noorda said:


> Fowlmouth said:
> 
> 
> > Black Cloud, Blind Side, Busmuth, Heavy Shot, Tungsten, Heavy Metal and all others are very good at marketing, and money is what it is all about. I prefer 3" #2 Estates over any of the above and they are a hell of a lot less expensive too.
> ...


Nope, I would use my go to shells....Estates 3" 1 1/4 oz. #2s like I said "I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum" when it comes to shotgun shells.


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## beretta2 (Jan 5, 2008)

> I would use my go to shells....Estates 3" 1 1/4 oz. #2s


+1 on the estates, they are a little slower with a little heavier payload than the norm these days but seem to work best for me. I shoot them out an Xtrema2 with a Kicks Xfull tube.


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## Kdub (Sep 6, 2010)

Chaser said:


> I patterned the BC in my Benelli SuperNova, and it did just as well as my everyday Federal loads do. That's what had me so shocked. The bird swam away with its head up, so I know I hit him with it. It just didn't do what I expected it to do. This year I have a dog that can fetch the birds before they swim off, so that should help as well. Don't get me wrong, the shell did a great job knocking it down, but it was awful at finishing him off.


 Big birds are hard to kill when the are sitting on the water. They are going away from you getting further and further each second, their wings protect their body and their heads are a pretty small target to get that bb or 2 in that is required to kill it. Next time when finishing a bird aim a little over the top of its head. That will put the densest part of your load on their head which is the only way you will be able to kill a cripple that's swimming away.


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## dkhntrbnus (Sep 28, 2011)

i use remington hyper sonic and it hasnt let me down, but then again it travels at 1750 fps


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## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

I like black cloud but only if i am shooting ducks at 40-55 yards as it knocks em down dead as well as my shoulder. When hunting waterfowl i use over kill as i like to kill them dead. ALot of people blame the cripples on the load when in reality its all about shot placement. One bb from a bad placed shot can brake a wing and making a cripple while 20 bb's well placed will break both wings, neck, keel bone, and noggin making a confirm kill! I personally shoot what makes me the most confident as shooting is mind over matter at times!


DiverFreak


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