# The Right to Hunt



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

_Please keep this post in line, lets not get it locked or anything, speak your opinion but not to strongly that it goes over the line. I know this opens a can of worms so lets keep it in line._

My question to all of you is what is your thoughts, feelings, and/or opinions on activists and people who are against hunting (or fishing) and trying to stop it?

In my opinion it is a right for all of us to hunt, a right that should never be able to be taken away at any time. People against hunting should not have the rights to come and take away what is so important and great to us all. If you personally don't want to hunt I don't care but don't ruin it for people who have such a passion for it. Hunting is a great sport and can bring people together. Anyone needs to have the situation turned around on them and have something taken away from them that is greatly important to them. Like I said before hunting is a right to everyone and under no circumstances should that right be taken away from people who complie with the rules and reg. of it. People who abuse the sport of hunting and do not respect that right should have it taken away, but with people who are ethical about and do nothing but what is legal should not even have to worry about the sport of hunting being threatened by people who know to little about it and think we all go into the forest and it is an unfair chase that we just go in with our high powered rifles and shoot what we want. The truth is they have never done it and the chase between hunter and prey is challenging, hunters don't just go and shoot the animal they want so easily there is a much finer ballance between hunter and prey than us just going out and shooting down the animal we want. More times than less the animal the hunter is hunting gets away, it is fair chase and the animal has a better chance of getting away than it dose getting shot. In my opinion animals will suffer a worse death if they were to die naturally anyway, they could slowly die of a sickness, or injury over a long period of time causing the animal great discomfort and a worse death, but with a gun an animal suffers not at all the animal is gone within a small amount of time and dosen't have to deal with the bad natural death that surely awaited him later on. Animals in the wild die, just like everything else on this earth eventually dies, nothing lives forever, and in nature animals do not survive forever they have predators, diseases, and countless other elements that will eventually decide the animals fate. No matter how advanced humans are or get they are still a part of nature and they are a natural predator and obviously the prey understand that because if they didn't they wouldn't get worried when humans are around. Hunting should never be taken away and it is a right of us all that we should be able to hunt, and knowone should be able to take it away from us, this is why I thank groups like CSI who protect our hunting right even though they shouldn't have to.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Much like driving an automobile, hunting is a privledge-- not a right. If it was a right, we wouldn't have to get a blue card and pay all the fees and otherwise jump through all the hoops one must do to be able to hunt. As far as the anti's go, they honestly think they are doing the right thing and if one is not thoughtfull in how they counter them, they gain strength through hunters actions. 

I mostly fish and only dabble in hunting, but I am definetly pro-hunting and on the side of hunters in most situations. My main gripe with hunters is the types who think that game exists for the sole purpose for them to shoot. We are all part of an ecosystem and hunting has it's place in that; but not to the detrement of any individual species. Predators have a place in that system and should not be eliminated merely so that hunters have more prefered animals to harvest. When the state is running nothing more than a ranching operation for hunters, that puts folks like me at odds with hunters that think that is the way to go. 

By definition, hunting is not a garunteed right that we are born with, and if hunters do not prove themselves as responsible stewards of the environment, it is a privledge that will be stripped away from us by and by.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Having a gun is a right, having a hunting license is a PRIVILAGE. LIke ScottyP said, if it were a 'right' we wouldn't need a blue card, a license, and we wouldn't have to 'apply' for a tag. It is somethong that can be taken away in a heartbeat if we are not careful. Since I see it as a privilage, or better yet as an honor, I value it more and I never want to lose the joys I get from hunting.

PRO


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Having a gun is a right, having a hunting license is a PRIVILAGE. PRO


+1... my thoughts exactly.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

In today's society, and in how we function, hunting is a recreational activity. It is akin to golfing, skiing, video games, model railroading, hot air ballooning, etc.... It is not a right. It is a priviledge. The reality is that there is nothing altruistic about hunting is helping the animals because they don't starve. We make that same argument while we talk about how much mule deer herds are suffering in numbers but we still go blast 20,000 of them every year. We don't hunt to help the wildlife, although at times, it does. Hunting in today's world is not about subsistence, though most hunters eat their harvest. Hunting is a quality, recreational activity. But a 'Right'? No.


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## scattergunner (Sep 21, 2007)

Priviledge. Far too many things are wrongly classified as rights anymore, it seems.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> In today's society, and in how we function, hunting is a recreational activity.


Oh, them's fightin' words. Poker, whisky, playing bluegrass on the front porch on a Sunday afternoon - these things are recreational activites. Hunting is a lifestyle...a cultural heritage, even.

But you're correct. It isn't a right.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Jeez.... ........ Whatever *Pro* abd *ScottyP* say, and agree on, is fine with me. I guess..... -)O(- 
No way am I going to argue with those two...!!!!!.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Its kind an interesting discussion. Several years ago, I applied for a job as the executive director for the Wyoming Wildlife Federation. I did a phone interview and then was asked to do an in-person interview in Cheyenne. Before I went for the live interview, I did quite a bit more homework and research, and interviews of my own with people affiliated with the group. I ended up cancelling the live interview and withdrew from the job on this very question - is hunting a right, or priviledge. My point of view was not in line with that of the organization - that it is some sort of higher, God-given right, above any sort of government regulation. It became a very fundamental concept in everything. I'm not dogging on them for holding to that point of view - it just isn't what I believe. But it is interesting how some groups interpret what those things are/mean. I think at times, that certain groups feel they have their own, money-given right, to 400+elk to shoot every year - everyone else be dammed. But that is another story all together.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Up until the mid 60's or so, I think the general consensus through most of Utah was that the government had no real authority over hunting, grazing, logging or any other land use issues. That was all local business. That philosophy is still with us today but has evolved into a belief in states rights. It's like when Clinton designated the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. People opposed the designation, but even more than that, they opposed Clinton's arrogance in making the designation.

I remember when I was a teenager, there was a weird sort of local addendum to game laws. Nobody would get away with the kind of shenanigans we used to pull back then - and that's a good thing.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

.45 said:


> Jeez.... ........ Whatever *Pro* abd *ScottyP* say, and agree on, is fine with me. I guess..... -)O(-
> No way am I going to argue with those two...!!!!!.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Oh you could argue, But you'd better have a pretty good block of time set aside and prepare to be wrong 99.9% of the time.


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Having a gun is a right, having a hunting license is a PRIVILAGE. LIke ScottyP said, if it were a 'right' we wouldn't need a blue card, a license, and we wouldn't have to 'apply' for a tag. It is somethong that can be taken away in a heartbeat if we are not careful. Since I see it as a privilage, or better yet as an honor, I value it more and I never want to lose the joys I get from hunting.


Once again.....Pro hits it right on the head!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

UZ-A-BOW said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > Having a gun is a right, having a hunting license is a PRIVILAGE. LIke ScottyP said, if it were a 'right' we wouldn't need a blue card, a license, and we wouldn't have to 'apply' for a tag. It is somethong that can be taken away in a heartbeat if we are not careful. Since I see it as a privilage, or better yet as an honor, I value it more and I never want to lose the joys I get from hunting.
> ...


Yep, I agree. But would you stop feeding his ego!

Hey pro, Why don't you run for office and get rid of that Hogan psycho out there in Tooele?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> Hey pro, Why don't you run for office and get rid of that Hogan psycho out there in Tooele?


Which one? St Johns is full of em! Plus, I would be a terrible politican because I *never *take a stand on issues. :shock:

PRO


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> UZ-A-BOW said:
> 
> 
> > proutdoors said:
> ...


Sorry, but when he's right he's right....what can we do about it :evil:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> Sorry, but when he's right he's right....what can we do about it


 *OOO* *\-\* *(())* *()* -/O\-

PRO


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## grousehunter (Sep 11, 2007)

Hunting is a privilage and not a right, there are quite a few people that should not be able to hunt. We just need to remember to keep our eyes on the right that makes hunting possible.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

grousehunter said:


> Hunting is a privilage and not a right, there are quite a few people that should not be able to hunt. We just need to remember to keep our eyes on the right that makes hunting possible.


Ooooooo.... thats a good twist right there... nicely put. 8)


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Privileges can easily be taken away. That's the core of the issue. So here's something of interest:

http://www.nraila.org/Hunting/Read/Hunt ... spx?ID=256

And thanks to Call of the Wild for posting the website.


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

Well, as is implied in my signature, I just do as the government says. If they say that hunting is a priveledge then it must be so. If they set up the laws, regulations, and system so that the rich get far more opportunites at both quality and quantity, the gosh darnit, the rich deserve it more than me!!! I'm just glad they give the five day window for going after a peice of crap two point deer and I only have to compete with half the state to get him too! That's my lot, and Big Brother told me so, so it must be so!!!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

J-bass said:


> Well, as is implied in my signature, I just do as the government says. If they say that hunting is a priveledge then it must be so. If they set up the laws, regulations, and system so that the rich get far more opportunites at both quality and quantity, the gosh darnit, the rich deserve it more than me!!! I'm just glad they give the five day window for going after a peice of crap two point deer and I only have to compete with half the state to get him too! That's my lot, and Big Brother told me so, so it must be so!!!


Dang, is there ANY subject that is NOT linked to Big Brother, and the Great Conspiracies? I suppose you believe hunting should be 'open season', that would have great results wouldn't it? :roll:

PRO


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> J-bass said:
> 
> 
> > Well, as is implied in my signature, I just do as the government says. If they say that hunting is a priveledge then it must be so. If they set up the laws, regulations, and system so that the rich get far more opportunites at both quality and quantity, the gosh darnit, the rich deserve it more than me!!! I'm just glad they give the five day window for going after a peice of crap two point deer and I only have to compete with half the state to get him too! That's my lot, and Big Brother told me so, so it must be so!!!
> ...


Open season? No, I just want to do what the government tells me to do. I'm serious here. I've realized the error of my ways and feel that there are a lot of people who know a lot more than me about everything, so I should just listen to them. It's in my, and everyone's, best interest to do so. It shouldn't be that hard for you to understand, I'm just doing what you do.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Glad to see you have seen the errors of your ways.  :wink: 

PRO


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Glad to see you have seen the errors of your ways.  :wink:
> 
> PRO


And I'm just glad that we have such patriots like yourself, and now myself, who don't question the rules we are so graciously given. Big Brother, or "the Man", or the establishment, or whatever you call it, is all about what's best for us!!! It's just crazy to think he has anything but our best interests in mind, and so I give myself freely and totally to him. To BIG BROTHER!!! Now give me a second, I need to go give my three minutes hate and direct it toward those evil Muslims.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

ATTABOY! Keep up the good work. :roll: 

PRO


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> ATTABOY! Keep up the good work. :roll:
> 
> PRO


How dare you roll your eyes at the establishment you SOB!!! And you who follows so mindlessly!!! I expected more from you.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

This band is interesting. No matter what song the musicians are playing, the front man sings the same lyrics. Huh.


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> This band is interesting. No matter what song the musicians are playing, the front man sings the same lyrics. Huh.


Indeed! I don't know what you mean, but I know that you love to follow blindly, so you must be right!!! You, more than even PRO, are an icon for the establishment!!! Hooray for Garyfish!!! Hooray for doing what you're told!!! Hooray to Big Brother!!! **** I love Big Brother, just like you Garyfish. We're united in this you know. We're truly brothers now, with our wiser, older, bigger brother showing us the way. I'm sorry about our past disagreements, but now I'm on your side!!! I want to do as I'm told too! I feel so joyous and light and the answer was right in front of me the whole time. I just need to give up all my freedoms, and then I'll be free!!! It's so simple and so easy and you explained it time and time again and I'm so happy to finally say that it sunk in Garyfish!!! I believe now. I'm just like you. I wish I could give you a great big cyber hug to celebrate our mindless march into the future!!!


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

> You, more than even PRO, are an icon for the establishment


Not so. I AM the establishment. I AM Big Brother. I determine what is right and what is to be followed. THAT my child, is the difference. The march is only mindless if you are not the one leading it. Drink more cool aid my child. Drink more cool aid.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Did you forget to get your meds refilled this month J-bass? 

When you refill them will you share with me?


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

Now this is what I call funny! :lol:


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Not so. I AM the establishment. I AM Big Brother. I determine what is right and what is to be followed. THAT my child, is the difference. The march is only mindless if you are not the one leading it. Drink more cool aid my child. Drink more cool aid.


Well, that explains a lot then!!! Your constant circular logic, your opposition of what is moral and good in the name of what's "right", your love for power and those who have it. I should have known it was you all along Big Brother!!! I am so sorry for not realizing it sooner. I humbly reverence myself in your great honor, Fishy!!! (I'm sorry, it's just that I feel I know you so well, I just have to call you Fishy.) Oh Fishy, I'm so happy to be able to follow you wherever you go and do whatever you say!!! Life is grand right now and it's all because of Fishy!!!    Hooray for Fishy!!! Hooray for Big Brother!!! Hooray!!!


fatbass said:


> J-Bass, DUDE!!!...when was the last time you had your blood pressure checked? You're fixin' to pitch an embolism! -#&#*!-


And no Fatbass, I've never been so calm! I've never been so free as when I finally gave up all my freedoms and let others dictate my rights TO me! Life's so much easier this way. Stop fighting Fatbass, come join the parade and watch as all your worries melt away.


Nibble Nuts said:


> Now this is what I call funny! :lol:


And excuse me Nuts, but I see nothing funny with Fishy, the establishment, or Big Brother. You need to check yourself, before you wreck yourself.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

J-bass said:


> And excuse me Nuts, but I see nothing funny with Fishy, the establishment, or Big Brother. *You need to check yourself, before you wreck yourself*.


Now that is some funny stuff right there!  :lol:


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

jahan said:


> J-bass said:
> 
> 
> > And excuse me Nuts, but I see nothing funny with Fishy, the establishment, or Big Brother. *You need to check yourself, before you wreck yourself*.
> ...


Dang it, I was trying not to be funny, but I guess I just can't help it. Come on Jahan, I know you've been dissapointed in my for the last week or two, but I'm just screwing around a little. I'll go back to my normal self when this gets less amusing.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

> Oh Fishy, I'm so happy to be able to follow you wherever you go and do whatever you say!!!


I'm glad you get it. Now drop and give me 20!


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## J-bass (Oct 22, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> > Oh Fishy, I'm so happy to be able to follow you wherever you go and do whatever you say!!!
> 
> 
> I'm glad you get it. Now drop and give me 20!


Done Fishy, done!!


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

J-bass said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="J-bass":2jxkei2x]
> ...


Dang it, I was trying not to be funny, but I guess I just can't help it. Come on Jahan, I know you've been dissapointed in my for the last week or two, but I'm just screwing around a little. I'll go back to my normal self when this gets less amusing.[/quote:2jxkei2x]

I just haven't heard that in a long time and I thought it was funny. 8) You were doing some excellent post then you went into a self destructive path for a little while, now hopefully your back. Another words you were kind of pulling a Brittany Spears on us.  You remind me a lot of my friends that I have and sometimes they just need to have someone let them know what they have been doing. I don't have anything against you and hopefully you don't feel that way towards me. I just voice my opinion a little too much sometimes.


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## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

I'll tell you what it was, It's that d*amn Sasquatch!
I say we all excercise our RIGHT, and hunt his A*S down!
Wait, I screwed up-
Our inalienable rights were delineated within the first ten articles of the United States Constitution which, among such dreadfully important clauses as: having the right NOT to feed and lodge our soldiers in our own homes, nor are we guaranteed a trial by jury in times of Martial Law- It does not guarantee us the right to shoot at four legged critters; only two-legged critters that are shooting at us.
Lest we forget, though- while our privilege may be a bane to some, Article VIII shall not allow that priviliege be denied us, the Itchy TriggerFinger squad, strictly as a means to oppose or disparage our tradition. Amen. 
I sure wish someone would take a closer look at "excessive bail or fines imposed", and get real. Are they accounting for inflation and charging that equivalent in the present, or something? And if so, are they projecting the inflation for the year 2050, just in case our country comes up a little short on oh, say Social Security, or a diminished war chest? Like THAT would ever happen ! :mrgreen:


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## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

One other question-
If our right is only to provide a well armed and regulated militia, how do we feed that militia? Do you suppose that if we ever actually needed a Militia that we would have green pastures full of healthy cattle, barnyards with happy chickens? Do we all become vegans and fight on a stomach full of spinach and wheat germ?
If we were to apply the very Jeffersonian ideal of the Elastic Clause, then perhaps the right to bear arms is extended to the people whom must feed the people who bear said arms. For the People, by the People. Says it right there- " ...to PROVIDE for the common defence, promote the GENERAL WELFARE (I think that means healthy, well NOURISHED citizens)... To ourselves and our Posterity (there is no posterity if your tummy is perpetually growling)...
Unless we are all mistaken, and John Adams was mildly dyslexic and intended only to supply bears with muskets; should the bears so desire or find a use for said muskets.
Ironic; I bet the bears in the lower 48 are a littled p*ssed they missed the boat on that one. If only they had opposable thumbs!
Scary, though- it is only ONE act of Congress away.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

SingleShot man said:


> Scary, though- it is only ONE act of Congress away.


No worries there. It's the upcoming Supreme Court case we need to watch out for. While the 2nd Amendment is crystal clear in its original context, it's ambiguous enough to allow reinterpretation. Ordinarily, I wouldn't worry. But ordinarily, the court wouldn't be hearing such a case, either. Between the phobias of American soceity at large, the influence of international politics and the presence of a couple whack jobs on the court, I'm not so confident.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

I once heard a group of hunters talking in one of the sporting goods stores and they were talking about the anti-hunting groups, they said that they should all be lined up and shot and that they would be willing to be the shooters when it come to that point. (Hunter Mentality?)

They also said if hunting was banned by government regulation, then they would become poachers. (Hunter Mentality?)

The scenerio of one of your game animals being placed on an endangered or threatened list could cause such a regulation to take effect. What would you do then? Would you abide by the law? 

Do you really think hunters respect their prey? I have taken guys out coyote hunting and we didn't even see a coyote and on the drive home all they can complain about is that they never got to pull the trigger. We should have shot at the crows they say. Or we should have blasted at those rabbits or at the fence post. They just want to either kill or shoot and that can be disturbing. (Hunter Mentality?)

It's no wonder the anti-hunting groups feel the way they do on some of these issues. We are our worst enemy sometimes. Instead of having a civil discussion with them, (and I know they are worse in most instances) we seem like a bunch of blood thirsty killers with attitudes. Look at all the stupid bumper stickers we put on our trucks.


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## SingleShot man (Dec 24, 2007)

unfortunately, it only takes one moron to screw it up for the rest of us.
frankly, I agree with your irritation regarding 'hunter's mentality'; the annoying bumperstickers being just one more thorn in my own side. I've seen and heard enough of these attitudes to make me physically ill at times. The trouble is, I think a lot of people assume that because they have an opinion, other people want to hear it- whether it's well thought out or not. There's the 'cameraderie' of like minded people whom feel a little safer and more content to spout ignorance, because 'hey-I'm not the only one that feels this way'.
So, what do we do? We go alone? We alienate ourselves from our own 'peer group'? Post inflammatory remarks (I'm guilty, too) because we feel safe and secure in doing so from the comfort of own homes?
Well- there may be no answer to this.
personally, I just walked away from the people whom sickened me with their 'divine right hunter's mentality'. Whom showed no respect for the natural world; not in theory, but in practice. Having seen and heard behavior that just didn't gel pushed me to take my own stand and say to h*ll with the rest.
Believe it or not, there are people out there like yourself whom approach things with forethought and careful study, and extrapolate their own conscientious decisions based upon cold, hard scientific evidence and a forthright intent to take an ethical (if not moral) stand. The hard part is finding them. I think finding a demographic which you are comfortable hunting with is the hardest hunt of all.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

> Do you really think hunters respect their prey? I have taken guys out coyote hunting and we didn't even see a coyote and on the drive home all they can complain about is that they never got to pull the trigger. We should have shot at the crows they say. Or we should have blasted at those rabbits or at the fence post. They just want to either kill or shoot and that can be disturbing.


This does not seem a direct reflection of "hunter mentality" rather, the company that YOU keep. Again, there are disrespectful idiots in all sects of society. Do you want to be painted along with these "friends" with the same sized brush you have been using?


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

These were people that wanted to learn how to hunt coyotes so I took them out. So I guess calling them "friends" was a little too cozy for you. They are hunters who mostly hunt big game, small game, upland game and such. It's not like they don't hunt.

That brings up another point: I tell them how fun it is to hunt coyotes and then we don't see any on the trip. I talk about how much I love the west desert; the openess; the solitude; the quietness; the beauty of the blue sky; the sound of coyotes howling, yipping and barking. They just complain about not pulling the trigger.

I really believe it is a mentality they were either raised with or picked up somewhere. This need to shoot at something or to kill something everytime out perplexes me. It's almost like they have lost their manhood if they don't prove how they can shoot a bottle or a can or a raven or a magpie or a squirrel or something.


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