# Any steelhead in Utah?



## jubal

A friend of mine says he wants to catch one of every legal fish species in Utah in his lifetime. So the question came up as to whether or not there were any steelhead in Utah. Are there, and if so, where?


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## GaryFish

No steelies in Utah.


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## Dodger

Gary is correct. Steelies do not make it down as far as Utah.


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## brookieguy1

There are actually steelhead in Falcon's Ledge private ponds. They don't get real large though, and they are deffinately not native.


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## Pez Gallo

There arent any in the jordan river making their way to the salt water, spend a couple of years eating brine shrimp and then swim back to their home waters?


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## brookieguy1

Pez Gallo said:


> There arent any in the jordan river making their way to the salt water, spend a couple of years eating brine shrimp and then swim back to their home waters?


Not sure Pez. Someone oughta' look into that!


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## PBH

Steelhead? Aren't steelhead genetically identical to a rainbow trout?

In many areas of Canada and Alaska, steelhead are simply rainbow trout over 20" long. If you are actually looking for an ocean migrating fish in Utah -- then the answer is "no".

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm


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## Pez Gallo

PBH said:


> Steelhead? Aren't steelhead genetically identical to a rainbow trout?
> 
> In many areas of Canada and Alaska, steelhead are simply rainbow trout over 20" long. If you are actually looking for an ocean migrating fish in Utah -- then the answer is "no".
> 
> http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/steelhead/id.htm


I know what you are saying is valid, but come on. There is a HUGE difference between a resident rainbow trout and an anadromous steelhead.


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## Dagwood

I always understood a steelhead to be a rainbow that found saltwater.


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## GaryFish

Dagwood, you are correct.


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## PBH

Pez Gallo said:


> I know what you are saying is valid, but come on. There is a HUGE difference between a resident rainbow trout and an anadromous steelhead.


So, in reference to the original question, the answer would be "no".

But, there really isn't a difference in the fish. The difference would simply be habitat. The fish are the same, the habitat is different.

Further considerations: is there a difference between a 30" rainbow trout (Strawberry?) and a 30" anadromous steelhead?


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## Pez Gallo

PBH said:


> Further considerations: is there a difference between a 30" rainbow trout (Strawberry?) and a 30" anadromous steelhead?


Do you even need to ask this question?


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## GaryFish

Growing up in the steelhead Mecca of Challis, Idaho, I can tell you, there is a significant difference between ocean-run trout (steelhead) and river/lake run rainbows. I've caught steelhead in the 17-20 inch range that fought harder, stronger, and better than 26-28 inch river-run trout. There is something that happens when you get a fish that will travel a thousand miles downstream to brave the challenges of living in the ocean, and then swim back upstream 1,000 miles just to get his groove on in a gravel bar somewhere. 

So why no steelies in Utah? First, most of the state flows into the Great Salt Lake, instead of an ocean. And the rivers that flow into the ocean, do so through the Colorado River system, emptying into the Gulf of California - not known for its steelhead friendly waters. Plus, so many major dams on the Colorado and its tribs, even if they were once in that system, there is no way they'd make it back to Utah in today's world anyway.


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## PBH

Pez Gallo said:


> Do you even need to ask this question?


Why not? place is boring lately....

I've caught sea-run cutthroat that didn't seem to be any different than their land-locked counterparts.

What about kamloops? Everybody always wants to claim that kamloops are somehow better than other strains of rainbow trout -- how would you compare a kamloops to a sea-run rainbow trout?

personally, I think it's all purely speculation. After all, we're talking about the same fish.


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## GaryFish

I've caught Kamloops too. kamloops fight hard, harder than most river/lake rainbows. They I think, seem stronger than other rainbow strains that are similar size. But that's just me. 

Steelehead fight harder than river/lake rainbows of any variety though. Not even close.


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## PBH

GaryFish said:


> I've caught Kamloops too. kamloops fight hard, harder than most river/lake rainbows. They I think, seem stronger than other rainbow strains that are similar size. But that's just me.


I'd have to disagree. I think that Tzenzaicut Lake rainbows out fight a similar sized kamloops any day of the week. I think it's due to their pisciverous diet -- which would be very similar to an Eagle Lake strain (again, I think they out fight kamloops). Compared to steelhead?

Well.....as you can probably see, this is just plain a silly debate. Do people honestly think that strain is the limiting factor in fighting ability of a rainbow trout? Which strain are the steelhead? Gerrard? Desmet? Skamania? Lake Michigan?

What about other salmonids? Pound-for-pound, what fights harder: steelhead, chinook, chum, coho, sockeye, or pink?

FWIW -- I love steelhead. I love fishing for them. I love catching them.


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## Pez Gallo

PBH said:


> What about other salmonids? Pound-for-pound, what fights harder: steelhead, chinook, chum, coho, sockeye, or pink?
> 
> FWIW -- I love steelhead. I love fishing for them. I love catching them.


Haven't you been on some of those BC trips with Richard? You should know all of this 

My vote: Steelhead are the fastest/hottest of the fish. Look at the shape, similar to a wahoo, barracuda, king mackerel etc. Built for speed for sure.

Chinook fight pretty hard, but I would think coho are pound for pound a little bit wilder on a hook.


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## Chaser

In the words of Michael Keaton's character on "The Other Guys"- "Wipe your d***s gentlemen, the pissing match is over!" 

Seriously, who cares what fights harder? Fish are fun to catch, and a 30 inch fish, whether a Steelhead or a Rainbow (be in a Kamloops or otherwise) would be a good time once hooked into!


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## PBH

Pez Gallo said:


> Haven't you been on some of those BC trips with Richard? You should know all of this .


yep, I have. Which is why my vote goes to Chum.



Pez Gallo said:


> My vote: Steelhead are the fastest/hottest of the fish. Look at the shape, similar to a wahoo, barracuda, king mackerel etc. Built for speed for sure.
> 
> Chinook fight pretty hard, but I would think coho are pound for pound a little bit wilder on a hook.


Aaaahhh.....you need to go catch some fresh salmon! All salmon are shaped just like a steelhead (in your words, like a wahoo, barracuda, king mackerel, etc.) when they are fresh. I like to compare them to torpedo's. They are all streamlined, and built for speed. Even a 5lb pink salmon, when fresh (or otherwise) puts up a great fight! You must consider the tackle most people use when fishing for salmon. If you have a 10# rod and you're catching 5lb pinks -- the fight might not appear to be as good as that 15# silver, or chum.

Sockeye are also known for their acrobatics, just like silvers. Chums are pitbulls. Chinooks are freight trains.

The reason I bring all this up is simply this: comparisons are difficult.

the original topic of this thread was catching steelhead in Utah. I asked "what's the difference between a steelhead and a rainbow trout?". It all comes back to comparisons, and in the end -- what does it matter? You really can't compare and distinguish which one fights better -- especially when you factor in the environment (size of river, current, etc). Distinguishing which one is the best fighter would be similar to distinguishing the better truck: ford, chev, or dodge -- or toyota, nissan, etc. Much of it is simply personal preference.

So, for the guy wondering about steelhead in Utah -- my answer would be to just go catch some rainbows. Many states and provinces classify a steelhead (vs. a rainbow) by size -- so if you can find yourself a 20" rainbow, feel free to call it a steelhead and check it off your list.


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## Pez Gallo

PBH said:


> Aaaahhh.....you need to go catch some fresh salmon!


I spent 25 years of my life fishing the west side of washington and oregon. I've caught a few fresh from the salt salmon and steelhead, or actually still in the salt for that matter.

And with that experience, I will mock anyone who says they have caught "steelhead" in Utah. :roll:


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## flyguy7

Just as PBH said: Genetically speaking, a steelhead and a rainbow are the exact same species of fish. Steelhead just go to the ocean. Its all about perspective. Im sure most of you have heard about the steelhead fishing in the great lakes area. Those fish are coming out of the great lakes, not the atlantic. So really, they are lake run rainbows. Sure, those massive lakes are similar to the ocean, but there isn't sharks, killer whales, and seals waiting to eat you behind every corner. The fish that survive that are going to be the bad a**'s of the bad a**es. And even when it comes to "true" steelhead coming out of the ocean there are going to be differences and not all are created equal. Do you think a hatchery steelhead ripped off a red in 39 degree water temps in Stanley is going to fight like a wild fish from the Skeena in August? Still covered in sea lice and only in freshwater for 8 hours? Not a chance. Bottom line is wild rainbows are a fish that put up one hell of a fight regardless of where they are derived from. I just wish there were more quality wild rainbow fisheries around here. Too bad some of that vigor didn't rub off on cutty buddy....


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## wyoming2utah

flyguy7 said:


> Do you think a hatchery steelhead ripped off a red in 39 degree water temps in Stanley is going to fight like a wild fish from the Skeena in August?


What about the hatchery steelhead running up the Skeena? Do they fight as well? Just out of curiosity, how the heck do you tell the difference between the hatchery steelhead running up the Skeena and the wild ones?


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## GaryFish

Hatchery steelies have clipped fins.


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## flyguy7

Well put Gary. So what you're problem with me anyway W2U? You have nothing better to do then chime in negatively on anything I put up in this forum? Get over it. Go take a day and fish or whatever you need to do. You're obviously deeply upset about something... Did I cut you off on the road at some point in time or what?


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## Pez Gallo

wyoming2utah said:


> What about the hatchery steelhead running up the Skeena? Do they fight as well? Just out of curiosity, how the heck do you tell the difference between the hatchery steelhead running up the Skeena and the wild ones?


Have you ever noticed the difference between a planter rainbow and a wild rainbow?

and yes, their adipose fins are clipped as well.


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## PBH

Pez Gallo said:


> Have you ever noticed the difference between a planter rainbow and a wild rainbow?


Pez -- Sometimes. not always. Only hold overs (catchables).

the difference between a fingerling stocked rainbow and a wild rainbow would be negligible. The only way to know the difference would be to know whether or not fish are stocked in the water in question.

consider: a fish is sitting on a red in a stream. The DWR grabs the fish and squeezes the eggs / milt from the fish into a bucket. They stir. They then take the mixture to a hatchery where the fish is hatched, and two months later that fish is then "stocked" into the same stream where the eggs/milt were collected. Is this fish somehow different than the ones hatched in the stream? Have the genetics changed? Are the natural instincts somehow lost?

Just because it's hatched in a hatchery does not mean the fish isn't "wild".

Those hatchery steelhead in the Skeena are still wild fish. They come from wild stock -- they just get a bit of a break and happen to be hatched in a controlled environment. The genetics haven't changed, and neither have their "wild" instincts. So they might have a fin clip to identify them with -- does that clip affect their fighting ability?







(Skeena)


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## scott_rn

Sure there are differences.

A steelhead has a different diet in the ocean than a freshwater fish. Throw them on the barbeque and you'll see a huge difference. 

And for arguements sake, pelletheads are products of an ever-shrinking gene pool. Inbreeding ain't right.


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## PBH

scott_rn said:


> And for arguements sake, pelletheads are products of an ever-shrinking gene pool. Inbreeding ain't right.


which is why brood stock is constantly released into community fishery ponds, and why wild stock is used when possible. Give those hatchery guys a little credit -- I think they've probably thought about genetic diversity a time or two...

...And, for further arguments sake -- what about a the genetic diversity of reproducing trout in a lake, or stream? How much genetic mixing goes on in an isolated system (Lower Provo)? Wouldn't their genetics also be an ever-shrinking gene pool?

it's unfortunate that many people form opinions based on assumptions. the lack of understanding how some things work stick out when those opinions are expressed, exposing that lack of understanding. (that includes me at times).

I won't argue too much with the diet (habitat) of steelhead vs. rainbows. But, isn't that true of any fish? Good habitat = good growth / diet / flesh / health.


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