# Just for the heck of it, which caliber would you take



## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I was just thinking out loud. Not to say that I would do it because I wouldn't but in today's world of long shot shooting if you were going to use a caliber/rifle to take an antelope at say 800-1000 yards what would you use? Heck to be honest it's just a "for kicks and giggles" question. If your gun is shooting 1MOA at 1000 yards that's 10 inches off under perfectly ideal conditions. So in effect I guess my question is, what caliber outside of a.50 BMG would have enough energy to take down an antelope or a mulie at 1,000 yards. 

I was reading up and some sniper dude had a shot over a mile with a .338 Lapua that took out a bad guy. Would a .30-06, .308, .300 win mag have the punch or would you need to move up to something bigger. I see a lot of the long range target guys use 6.5....would that have enough down range energy. Let the fun begin.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

I love the 6.5 284 Norma for deer. I have taken a few elk at 500 yards one shot. I am sure it would shoot and kill elk at a farther distance but that is my comfort zone that I practice with . Love that round no recoil and deadly on accuracy


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

The caliber used is the least important factor in long range shooting. The most important (and given the least credit) is the shooter's ability to shoot that far. That includes his/her (let's be politically correct here) ability to judge range, dope the wind, hold for movement, pull the trigger, and so on and on and on. The next is whether or not your equipment is capable of shooting accurately that far. Putting a 6-24x50 scope on grandpa's Marlin 336 will not make it (or you) a 1000 yard tack driver. Caliber choice is the least important factor. If you and your rifle can shoot sub minute of angle groups consistently (meaning all of the time, not consistently 10% of the time), and conditions will allow it, hitting a target the size of an antelope at 1000 yards is possible with any reasonable caliber. You just adjust your hold (or dial ups) to suit whatever range you happen to be shooting. The black powder silhouette shooters are doing it with 45/70s and open sights. Surely us humans can do it with any metallic cartridge shooting close to or over 3000 fps, 20+ power scopes, laser ranging equipment, and ballistic computer programs.

Oh, and I would use my 270 Winchester.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Loke nailed it.......and I'd use my 280 for the reasons he stated. It is my most accurate, consistent rifle. In reality I would never take this shot either at a non-wounded animal. 

I used to think I was a long range shooter but I am quickly realizing that I am not at all by today's standards. Thank goodness. I will happily remain as a precision marksman placing bullets within 2" of wherever I want them in any conditions out to 500 yards or so. -----SS


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

It doesn't take a lot to kill an antelope. It really depends on if you can hit them in the vitals or not. 

Without wind a caliber 6.5 -.338 with a high ballistic coefficient could do the job. 

The bigger the caliber the better it is at bucking the wind.

If you are going to shoot 1000 yards, I would not do it with a plastic stock, light barreled sporting/hunting gun, cheap free floated barrel, walmart scope, low grade factory ammo and a poor trigger. 

A heavy target barrel, solid bedded stock, free floated barrel, large magnification scope with turrets, muzzle-brake, berger vld or other high bc reloads, and good trigger would be the way to go. 

If I were to choose I would probably go with the .30-378 weatherby or the .338-378 weatherby. I could do it with a .308 or 6.5 creed, but what would be the fun in that?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> The bigger the caliber the better it is at bucking the wind.


This is my favorite myth. Wind deflection is a function of time of flight. The longer your bullet is in the air, the longer the wind (or gravity) has to act upon it. It doesn't matter to the wind (or gravity) how big your bullet is. It is simply an object suspended in a fluid to be acted upon by that fluid. Air is a fluid medium. A higher ballistic coefficient will allow a projectile to maintain its initial velocity longer than a more blunt one. Allowing it to arrive at its destination in less time, giving the wind (or gravity) less time to move it off course.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> It doesn't take a lot to kill an antelope. It really depends on if you can hit them in the vitals or not.
> 
> Without wind a caliber 6.5 -.338 with a high ballistic coefficient could do the job.
> 
> ...


I'm voting for the 338-378 on this one. If the bullet misses the antelope the shock wave that follows will knock the animal down.

.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

If you have a .30-06, .308, .300 win mag, I'd say "shoot whatcha got".

I agree with Loke on everything he said, (except slightly about the bigger bullets). Just make sure you can do it and you understand that wind is a bigger enemy than all else put together.

I also agree with SpringvilleShooter's standards. Find the farthest range you can consistantly hit a killzone and stick with it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

A long long time ago before a lot of the members here were even though of I read some articles about a wildcat making all kinds of waves at the 1000 yard shoots. They took a .300 Weatherby and necked it up to .338, then in 1962 Roy Weatherby started to chamber his Mark V rifle in it and the rest was history. At least according to long range shooters at the time. They were also having great results by shooting the 7mm Weatherby mag. Something about those long skinny bullets. 

Now I am not a long range shooter but I can shoot quite well out to 600 yards with my .340 Weatherby mag and I know that if I would practice a lot more 1000 yards would not be out of the question. 

But the problem that I see is that most shooters have no idea of the bullet drop at 600 yards much less 1000 yards. When that bullet drops over 5'-6' at those ranges you need to be on the top of your game to connect into the vitals of any animal.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I seem to remember that there was a video out of a woman taking a cow elk at 1200 yards with a .243?


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## copple2 (Jan 23, 2008)

7mm rem mag. Fast and flat and lot's of energy. You need to make sure you have enough energy to kill an animal at that distance...not just hit it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

bowgy said:


> I seem to remember that there was a video out of a woman taking a cow elk at 1200 yards with a .243?


If its the one I post from time to time, 688 yards:






Here's one I've also posted through of a 12 year old kid killing a elk at 1376 yards with a 7RemMag






-DallanC


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I have taken antelope out to 1200 yards with my .270. Just get the right bullet combo, good scope, right conditions, and plenty of long range practice. My next choice is my .300 weatherby mag; I've used it at the range to 1000 yards several times, but never fired at an animal past 400 with it.


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

The 7mm has been shown to buck the wind very well. I'd feel very comfortable out to 1000 with my 7mm LRM set up. However the best flying "quietest" long range caliber I believe is the 6xc. I shot an aoudad which have a reputation of being very tough with the ability to suck up lead with a 6xc at 680 yards and it was lights out. Proper placement and willingness to become effective.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Just the other day there was some dude on Facebook saying he couldn't get his Vortex Crossfire to zero on his .338 win mag. He wanted to know where he could find somebody to pay to do it for him because once it was sighted in he could hit "dead bullseye" from zero all the way out to 800 yards. He claimed he just sucked at sighting in scopes but could shoot like Annie Oakley once the gun was sighted in. I told him I was a little skeptical of a guy that couldn't even sight his own gun in, but claimed he could hit "dead bullseye" from zero to 800 yards. I told him I would give him my left nut on a silver platter if he could hit a paper plate sized target with even 50 % consistency at 800 yards. Old deadeye Dick took great offense to my comment and told me to name the range and we could put $1,000 on it. I didn't really wanna take the time out of my schedule to do such a silly thing, but it would have been funny to go watch him fail and see if he would actually pay up.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Hands down I would use my 26 nosler. 
Best caliber I have ever shot at long range


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Old deadeye Dick took great offense to my comment and told me to name the range and we could put $1,000 on it. I didn't really wanna take the time out of my schedule to do such a silly thing, but it would have been funny to go watch him fail and see if he would actually pay up.


Or, you were afraid he might actually do it! Tell you what, you put up the $1,000 and I'll go do it for you for a 10% administrative fee and cost of gas. You're probably getting $800+ out of this one for no effort of your own. But if he does it, you're paying him $1,000 and my gas only. Deal? I'll film it for you.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I'd say that I'd have about a 75% chance of hitting a 10" paper plate 3 out of five times at 800 yards. With my old 6BR it would be more like 90%. 


The fact that the guy was soliciting help sighting in his rifle hedges your bet some though.-----SS


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

maybe it was the "left nut on the silver platter" that offended him. If that isn't a right nut bet I don't know what is.

For the record I have a buddy that lost his left one in a motorcycling accident. He fuctions just fine and has earned the original nickname of "Uno".

Oh yea........for me it is my 7mm RM just because I have put more rounds through it than any other big game rifle I have ever owned.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

If I were to sight his gun in for him I can guarantee I would win any and all bets as to whether he could hit anything afterward.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think a lot of guys over look the fact bullets that work good up close suck at long range and bullets that work good at distance can fail up close. 

Having said that for antelope and deer out to a 1000 I'd go 6.5x284 in 140 grain berger. 6.5x284 seem to buck wind and are an inherently accurate round to begin with. 

If you would have said elk my choice would have been different

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Bob L. (Jan 11, 2015)

I think a 300winmag is a great 1000+ yard to close up gun from goats to elk. You will get a ton of opinions.
I regret not building one after the first 5 custom builds in various calibers. This is only my opinion and what I have seen in the field.
I am a 2 gun guy when hunting and both of these rifles are with me when I go up in the mountains but if I were to do it again and only have 1 rifle for all the work, I think it would be the 300wm.
Bob


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

LostLouisianian said:


> I was just thinking out loud. Not to say that I would do it because I wouldn't but in today's world of long shot shooting if you were going to use a caliber/rifle to take an antelope at say 800-1000 yards what would you use? Heck to be honest it's just a "for kicks and giggles" question. If your gun is shooting 1MOA at 1000 yards that's 10 inches off under perfectly ideal conditions. So in effect I guess my question is, what caliber outside of a.50 BMG would have enough energy to take down an antelope or a mulie at 1,000 yards.
> 
> I was reading up and some sniper dude had a shot over a mile with a .338 Lapua that took out a bad guy. Would a .30-06, .308, .300 win mag have the punch or would you need to move up to something bigger. I see a lot of the long range target guys use 6.5....would that have enough down range energy. Let the fun begin.


 7MM MAGNUM


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

7MM RELOADED said:


> 7MM MAGNUM


Which one? There are about 463 to choose from.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I shot an antelope at 1,000 yards, off hand, with only a 4x scope on my 30-06. But to do that, I carried the bullet in my rifle for the first 850 yards before I pulled the trigger.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Loke said:


> Which one? There are about 463 to choose from.


 sorry, REMINGTON 168 gr. Good enough for the secret service good enough for me


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> This is my favorite myth. Wind deflection is a function of time of flight. The longer your bullet is in the air, the longer the wind (or gravity) has to act upon it. It doesn't matter to the wind (or gravity) how big your bullet is. It is simply an object suspended in a fluid to be acted upon by that fluid. Air is a fluid medium. A higher ballistic coefficient will allow a projectile to maintain its initial velocity longer than a more blunt one. Allowing it to arrive at its destination in less time, giving the wind (or gravity) less time to move it off course.


Sorry Loke, you could not be more wrong here! Wind deflection is indeed related to velocity, but varies according to the change in velocity over time. Think of it this way: A bullet with a lot of drag will "grip" the wind better. The higher the ballistic coefficient of a bullet, the less wind drift. Since BC is directly proportional to sectional density, it is a fact (not a myth) that larger caliber bullets having the same form factor will drift less.

I agree completely with your earlier post that putting a bullet in the kill zone is far more important than the caliber you choose. But since wind drift is such a major part of long range shooting it's advisable to choose a caliber that can shoot high-BC bullets at decent velocity. You won't find a .243 bullet with a BC over .600 and most of them are in the .3s and .4s. A big .338 has plenty of bullets available in the .7s and a few in the .8s. That's a huge difference in wind drift.

.243 Win, 95 grain Ballistic Tip, 3100 fps: *91"* drift at 1000 yds (10mph wind)
.338 Lapua, 300 grain Berger Hybrid, 2800 fps: *39"* drift at 1000 yds (10mph wind)

The big .338s will perform the best at this kind of range, even though you don't need that much power for antelope. A .300 Win, .300 RUM, or a fast 7mm using high-BC bullets would be a good choice for that kind of a shot. There are good bullets available in .264 cal, that would also get it done.

Aside from being able to put the bullet on target just make sure you've got enough velocity left for it to expand. There are a ton of .308 Winchesters around that can hit targets at 1000 but the bullets are only going 1500 fps +/- at that range. Depending on the bullet that may not be enough. Figure 1800 fps or more for reliable expansion, unless you have a soft bullet that you trust below that.

Even though it's very doable with today's guns, most shooters still cannot reliably take game at 1000. I practice a fair amount and have guns that are capable of 1500 yards+ but I'm not comfortable shooting at game past 750. In fact my longest shot to date is 563 on a deer and that's pretty far!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

this is a funny thread. Lots of good info. Fun to read.

Do everything that all these guys say. Get a heavy barrel rifle, solid stock, turreted large magnifiication expensive scope, custom load ammunition.....

....then PRACTICE. Practice a whole bunch. Make sure you can shoot.

Once you do all that, then you should be ready. But, we're not done yet. Now you need to go out and find the animal you are going to shoot at. Once you find that animal, the most critical thing to do comes up: GET CLOSER!

Shouldn't that be something that goes through every hunters mind when determining if the shot is available or not? "Can I get closer?".

I've yet to come up with a scenario when I've had to say "I need to get further away and make the shot more difficult".


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

swbuckmaster said:


> I think a lot of guys over look the fact bullets that work good up close suck at long range and bullets that work good at distance can fail up close.


This still boils down to shot placement I think. I have seen countless threads complaining about the VLD at close range... I shot a cow close-ish range with one right where you want to hit her.. she didn't go far after one shot. If a bullet goes through the heart of an animal, it will die. If you can shoot 1000 yards, you better be able to get good placement at 300.

Accubond is another round that I think is great near and far.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Mr. Matador, once again someone fails to understand that BC has nothing to do with bullet diameter, it is based on the shape of the bullet. If I were to take two different calibers, for example a Hornady .375 300 grain BTSP has a BC of .460. A Hornady .277 130 grain SST has the same BC of .460. If fired at the same velocity, trajectories and wind drifts would be identical. Because time of flight would be the same. All of the ballistic charts and programs that I have used do not differentiate between calibers, just BC.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Loke said:


> Mr. Matador, once again someone fails to understand that BC has nothing to do with bullet diameter, it is based on the shape of the bullet. If I were to take two different calibers, for example a Hornady .375 300 grain BTSP has a BC of .460. A Hornady .277 130 grain SST has the same BC of .460. If fired at the same velocity, trajectories and wind drifts would be identical. Because time of flight would be the same. All of the ballistic charts and programs that I have used do not differentiate between calibers, just BC.


+1

-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

PBH said:


> I've yet to come up with a scenario when I've had to say "I need to get further away and make the shot more difficult".


Along those lines, every year I get more people through my shop who talk about backing up to make a shot from a further distance. An animal ain't a gong. Respect it and give it your best chance to make a clean kill. For some dudes with a 7Mag that is needing to get within 200 yards and for others that means getting within 500 yards. I doubt most fellas can't shoot the same at 800 yards as they can at 400. Some think that it is ok to lob shells at a doe, but not a buck-- like there is some lesser quality about a doe....


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Packout nails it. The key is getting within a distance that is realistic for YOU and also presents a legitimate chance for YOU to make a "clean" kill. I am not even close to a long range shooter. Too much beyond 300 yards and I get a little nervous. I don't shoot and practice nearly enough to start taking longer shots than that. I know there are people on here that can bulls-eye a 600 yard shot virtually every time. Maybe one day I'll get there. And maybe one day I'll take an animal at that distance because I'm there. But I'm not there yet.

As for caliber...for me it would be .338 win mag, since that is what I have and I'm not buying a new rifle any time soon. But I've heard a lot of long range shooters are in love with the 28 Nosler.


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> Mr. Matador, once again someone fails to understand that *BC has nothing to do with bullet diameter*, it is based on the shape of the bullet. If I were to take two different calibers, for example a Hornady .375 300 grain BTSP has a BC of .460. A Hornady .277 130 grain SST has the same BC of .460. If fired at the same velocity, trajectories and wind drifts would be identical. Because time of flight would be the same. All of the ballistic charts and programs that I have used do not differentiate between calibers, just BC.


For a guy who knows a lot about guns you sure don't know much about bullets. Your example uses 2 bullets with much different shapes. Nice try comparing apples to oranges. Obviously a .243 cal VLD rifle bullet will have a higher BC than a 9mm HP, but when projectiles of the same shape are compared the larger caliber will *always* have a higher BC. That's because a larger caliber bullet with the same shape has a higher SD! It's very simple physics, sorry you are having a hard time understanding.

Compare two bullets of the same shape and the BCs are quite different.

.264 140 grain Berger Hybrid: BC of *.607*
.338 300 grain Berger Hybrid: BC of *.822

*The .338 has roughly 30% larger diameter and 30% higher BC. Both bullets have the same boat tail, same ogive, same proportions.

If you look at the formula for calculating BC you'll notice that bullet diameter is part of the equation.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Look at a ballistic chart. Please tell me where to find a bullet diameter. I could build a bullet of any BC of any diameter I wanted. It might not be practical. But it would have the numbers. Yes, it is easier and more practical to get a higher BC with a larger diameter bullet. Sectional density is a ratio of the bullet's diameter and weight. The Ballistic coefficient is a calculation of how much drag it has in flight. I know all of that. I also know all about rotational stability and that it also affects BC.


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## Smoot (Sep 30, 2015)

Loke said:


> Mr. Matador, once again someone fails to understand that BC has nothing to do with bullet diameter, it is based on the shape of the bullet. If I were to take two different calibers, for example a Hornady .375 300 grain BTSP has a BC of .460. A Hornady .277 130 grain SST has the same BC of .460. If fired at the same velocity, trajectories and wind drifts would be identical. Because time of flight would be the same. All of the ballistic charts and programs that I have used do not differentiate between calibers, just BC.


 BC absolutely does involve bullet diameter. The two are obviously not a measure of the same value and not interchangeable, but just like Matador said BC cannot be calculated without using bullet diameter. The bigger a bullet gets the less proportional surface area it has, therefore less drag per the given mass of the projectile.That's why you can't find it on your ballistic charts, it's been incorporated as part of the BC value.

You're right that time of flight is very important in determining wind drift, but it is only one variable.The wind absolutely does buck smaller, lighter bullets more easily, for the same reason wind can pick up a kite but not the human holding it... Higher velocities and the resulting shorter TOF's help negate the winds effect on lighter bullets, but do not eliminate the effect at all. And maybe I'm not quite awake yet, but I can't understand why you think the time of flight of a 300gr and a 130gr projectile with the same muzzle velocity would be the same? An object with more mass will always retain its momentum for a longer period of time. Identical BC's shouldn't be able to defeat that. The greater mass of the 300gr would cause it to drop faster, and perhaps without any correction or holdover, could cause it to end its trajectory at a similar distance to that of the 130gr.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

when a practical laser gun is manufactered for hunting people will argue about time bending light.


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> Look at a ballistic chart. Please tell me where to find a bullet diameter.


It is built in to the BC by way of sectional density.



> I could build a bullet of any BC of any diameter I wanted. It might not be practical. But it would have the numbers. *Yes, it is easier and more practical to get a higher BC with a larger diameter bullet.*


I agree! :mrgreen:


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

Packout said:


> Along those lines, every year I get more people through my shop who talk about backing up to make a shot from a further distance. An animal ain't a gong. Respect it and give it your best chance to make a clean kill. For some dudes with a 7Mag that is needing to get within 200 yards and for others that means getting within 500 yards. I doubt most fellas can't shoot the same at 800 yards as they can at 400. Some think that it is ok to lob shells at a doe, but not a buck-- like there is some lesser quality about a doe....


Totally agree. If there is ANY doubt about making a clean kill you should look at your options for getting closer. Well said!


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