# Draw blinds and limited access to WMAs?



## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

What's your thoughts?


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

No! Stupid idea!!


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Go on over to Fowlmindeds Facebook page seems they have take. It upon them selves to speak for all of us in making suggestions to the DWR about crowding maybe they should stick to their private clubs and leave public land be.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

how about regulating stupid facebook hunting groups with some lame logo and a lame name with a fowl pun and what not!


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm sure they will ask you to support all their fundraisers so they can raise money to give to the DWR to buy a voice. Used to think they were really trying to do good but seems they want to be waterfowls SFW.


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## quackaddict35 (Sep 25, 2015)

Yeah that fowl minded Facebook thing bugged me.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I am against the idea 100%
bad idea!!
Hunting is already limited, why limit it even more.

you like having the options of showing up to the marsh and choosing when and where you will hunt right? you won't have that right if it goes to a draw.
This isn't Arkansas, this it Utah.



Disclaimer: written as an expression of my own thoughts


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## Fowl_faith (Aug 27, 2015)

I'm bothered by that too, there's a simple solution to it all, just be respectful and think of the other hunters around you. As my 11 year old just said "just be cool"


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Utmuddguy said:


> What's your thoughts?


No way. We've got plenty of room for everybody. My reason for hunting is not simply to kill birds. If that's all I wanted, I'd probably work in a slaughterhouse. I go hunting for many reasons, including to challenge myself, explore new areas, learn new things, and enjoy the outdoors. One thing I really love about hunting is the freedom I have to find what's out there and be rewarded for my effort.

To me, draw blinds mainly serve the goal of killing birds, while open access allows for everything I mentioned above.

If you can't find a quality hunt due to crowding on public lands in Utah, you're not trying very hard IMO. I'm almost never crowded on my hunts, unless I go to Howard Slough or the center dike at Farmington Bay. And if I do that, I expect a crowd and I'm prepared to share the space with other hunters.


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## Fowl_faith (Aug 27, 2015)

It would kill tradition just as the change I'm the deer hunts did.


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## quackaddict35 (Sep 25, 2015)

Saturday morning at 330 I was busting my ass through phrag til 430.....and guess what didn't have anyone near me. I didn't even see anyone until I got back onto the dike. Put in some effort and you won't run into anyone.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

I am for the idea of having a draw system. 

I would love a limited entry waterfowl area.

There should be places that you can hunt anytime, but there should be a few areas where people are limited. 

An idea would be to create a few zones with optimal habitat that could be these limited entry draw areas.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

join a club^^


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> There should be places that you can hunt anytime, but there should be a few areas where people are limited.
> 
> An idea would be to create a few zones with optimal habitat that could be these limited entry draw areas.


there are places like that. They are called duck clubs. People can pay for that kind of experience.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

If you think opening day is any different now than it has been in the past, you haven't been duck hunting very long.

Fowl Minded, please stop trying to be the voice for 18,000+ Utah Waterfowlers. If I think changes are necessary, I will voice my own concerns, I don't need a special interest group to do that for me.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Totally unnecessary. No need to play the l.e. Game for ducks. If you can't handle sharing the marsh, buy a membership to a club, or buy a private chunk of land as others have said. The marsh is crowded sometimes, but that's not the worst thing in the world.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

utahgolf said:


> there are places like that. They are called duck clubs. People can pay for that kind of experience.


Yes, but wouldn't it be better to have a public land draw for ducks.

The app fees could go to fighting the phrag and building islands with vegetation.

The hunt an would be an opportunity to have your own pond on a weekend, not having pass shooters shoot at ducks or geese that are 150 yards in the air, not having to hike through hell and phrag to get away from those folk, not worrying about a boat driving through the area at 10 minutes to shooting light, not having people hunt over your decoys, etc.

It sounds like it may be something worth looking into, but I think it would be better to leave the WMA's alone and create a series of ponds in areas away from the other WMA's to create a unique experience.

I imagine, this is not going to be popular, but just take it as my opinion and not anything derived from a radical wildlife group trying to suck money away from hunters and not giving much back to wildlife.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Where's Hammer? He's got great insight on this topic.

This idea of blind draws = more opportunity and quality is a flat out fallacy!! Big question is where does the $$ come from to implement this type of structure?


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## Spry Yellowdog (Sep 8, 2007)

Please,
Don't mention another way for the DWR to increase costs and limit access.
Or they will do it.

Spry


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> utahgolf said:
> 
> 
> > there are places like that. They are called duck clubs. People can pay for that kind of experience.
> ...


 Move to California, then you can have all the draw blinds you want, you probably won't hunt that much. Or hunt somewhere else besides FB, it's FB for Christ Sakes what do you expect?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

king eider said:


> Where's Hammer? He's got great insight on this topic.
> 
> This idea of blind draws = more opportunity and quality is a flat out fallacy!! Big question is where does the $$ come from to implement this type of structure?


I can tell you that in Louisiana there was a huge scandal on a draw blind area that had once been a private duck club. People got fired and lost jobs when it was uncovered the corruption going into who was getting to hunt there regularly and how joe public hardly had a chance. If you want a place less crowded go find private land to hunt on. Public land is for the public not a bunch of whining babies who want to limit MY chances to hunt when I want to hunt. And by the way change your name from Fowl Minded to FOUL Minded.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

One of the reasons I quit big game hunting was the draw crap,dont take my ducks away from me:!:


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## Hawk87 (Apr 4, 2014)

Draw ponds are a terrible idea. It sounds great to have a section of the marsh all to yourself, until you only draw a blind every 2-3 years. If we go to a system where some areas are draw, and some aren't, then that just makes the problem worse for people that aren't lucky enough to draw a blind. If you want to get away from other people you have options: A- join a duck club B-hunt private land C- Work harder and get away from other people.

I really can't express with family friendly language how against this I am.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

Blind draws are a terrible idea. One reason I like the duck and goose hunt is because there are very few restrictions on it. You get over 3 months to hunt it, and you are able to make many choices of when and where you want to hunt. We shouldn't be adding restrictions just because alot of people do it. If you are expecting a duck marsh all to yourself, the first month of the season is the wrong time to go!!!


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

Can someone post a link to the Fowl Minded facebook page please?


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

blackdog said:


> Move to California, then you can have all the draw blinds you want, you probably won't hunt that much. Or hunt somewhere else besides FB, it's FB for Christ Sakes what do you expect?


I actually prefer salt creek and public shooting grounds to Farmington bay.

I have hunted all the WMA's in Northern Utah with the exception of Locomotive Springs and I think it is easier to get away from people at Salty and Public.


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## fish-n-fool (May 26, 2009)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I actually prefer salt creek and public shooting grounds to Farmington bay.
> 
> I have hunted all the WMA's in Northern Utah with the exception of Locomotive Springs and I think it is easier to get away from people at Salty and Public.


Now you have some company headed your way


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## Josh Noble (Jul 29, 2008)

https://www.facebook.com/FowlMinded?fref=ts


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

My thoughts on draw blinds is not just no but HELL NO!! Opening day is undoubtedly crowded but after that the crowds begin to dwindle. There is no reason to restrict access for the whole season because of one day.

Before you all join a lynch mob go over to Facebook and see exactly what was suggested and by whom. With in the first few posts I found these posts by Fowlminded in response to accusations that they are proposing draw blinds or limited access...


> Fowl Minded... Eric, we are opposed to a blind draw system and any sort of access restriction, we support education and a safe hunting distance. Many people on this thread feel we support a blind draw system, simply put we do not support this in any way shape of form. We simply posed a question looking for a discussion to see what could make things both better and safer.
> 
> Fowl Minded... Shaun, I don't know why you think we support a blind draw system?! Never did we suggest this and just so we are 100% clear Fowl Minded does not support a blind draw system or restricting access to public land. We posed a simple question looking for feed back. On the record we support: safety, education and ethics. No one asked to speak for you Shaun, simply asked if anything could be done to make it better and safer. It sounds like you're the bubonic plague to ducks! Happy killing


https://www.facebook.com/FowlMinded

And no, I am not associated with Fowlminded in any way...just someone that likes to get the facts before I drag someones name through the mud.
Happy hunting...


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Why would they even ask a question like they did? We don't need special interest groups running to the DWR expressing how 4 or 5 hunters feel. 

I don't know these guys personally, I have never had any interaction with this group. I think they have done some good things in the past with fundraising events to help individual people and with some WMA related projects. They should focus their efforts in those areas and not worry about going to the DWR with a opening day hunter satisfaction report.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I support the idea of draw blinds and limited access to SOME WMA's or WMA ponds. A "quality hunt" is different for everyone. Some want to hunt without the worry of someone setting up on top of them. Some just want to run their boat and race around the marsh. For others quality is simply getting out as often as they want. I believe we have plenty of public marsh in Utah to allow for all types of access. I think it would be great to have an area or two with limited draw blinds. Some say if you want to have a limited draw blind, go join a club or get access to private property. That is one way of gaining a "quality hunt" but not everyone can afford a membership to a private club nor can most gain access to private ground. Diversity of opportunity is what it is about in my mind and right now we don't have it in Utah. I have friends in California and North Carolina who love the blind draw system they have. I also know people in California who hate it. We all have a different idea of a "quality hunt" so lets have the diversity of opportunity to allow everyone to have the "quality hunt" they desire.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

I had a conversation with Shawn the founder of Fowl Minded the topic was sportsman for wildlife and the limited entry system including tags that get auctioned to raise money. I was told that his belief is its for the greater good. When they start talking about making proposals to the DWR about the problems with overcrowding, etiquette and safety there is only on thing that comes to mind. Limit the number of hunters. 
They seem to have changed there Mind from making proposals to the DWR on our behalf to they don't claim to speak for anyone.

In all fairness my conversation with Shawn was regarding big game and there was no mention of waterfowl.

My experience is if anyone tells me it's for the greater good I'm about to get screwed.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

On a side note, I wouldn't get too excited about Foulminded or any other group. These guys are just the flavor of the week. There have been several other organizations that have tried to be "the voice" for Utah waterfowlers to no avail. There is NO unity amongst us thus no group can have success.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

Donttreadonme said:


> There is NO unity amongst us thus no group can have success.


wait something me and you can agree on... who would of thought.....

seems this topic gets rehashed over and over every year.....


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

stuckduck said:


> Donttreadonme said:
> 
> 
> > There is NO unity amongst us thus no group can have success.
> ...


I thought about starting a mud motor restrictions thread just for old times sake. ?


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> Why would they even ask a question like they did? We don't need special interest groups running to the DWR expressing how 4 or 5 hunters feel.
> 
> I don't know these guys personally, I have never had any interaction with this group. I think they have done some good things in the past with fundraising events to help individual people and with some WMA related projects. They should focus their efforts in those areas and not worry about going to the DWR with a opening day hunter satisfaction report.


As I read it the only question they asked was, what can we do to improve opening day? That is pretty much what I think the DWR would ask in a public input poll. My answer to that question would be nothing other than to stress gun safety opening day is what it is..

I agree with you 100% on special interest groups. 
I believe the DWR should be influenced by public input not special interest groups pushing their own agenda. Everyone should voice their opinion and each individual voice should be regarded with the same influence whether or not the individual is a member of any groups. It always bugs me when someone stands up at a RAC and says "I represent" xx thousand members of whatever. If all those members wanted to express their opinion they should be at the RAC or participate in the input poll when applicable. And who is to say if ALL of the members agree with what that individual says at that moment...


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

Kalifornication if that's what you want then move BACK there we don't need you here to mess with our public lands...


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

problem is, they mentioned crowding in there post. How do you deal with crowding? Well the obvious is by limiting people... That's what started this whole thing. It's the freaking opener, it's a zoo, it's been that way forever. The problem is these groups come along with a mean duck logo and fowl name and act like this whole waterfowl thing is something new and they need to fix it. I wish these groups would go away, mainly started by people who want their waterfowling to feel more important and to get all the atta boys on their page and likes. etc..... and these groups do more to INCREASE hunter crowding by hotspotting and openly giving away areas on their pics or discussions. We don't need any more logo's, black hoodies or groups to make us all feel important. Just go out there and hunt.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Goshawk said:


> As I read it the only question they asked was, what can we do to improve opening day? That is pretty much what I think the DWR would ask in a public input poll.


Then I think the DWR should be the organization to ask this question if they feel there is a concern. Not a special interest group that wants to be the voice for 18,000+ waterfowlers. That's what I have a problem with.....

Don't think for one minute that these groups don't influence decisions made by the DWR.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

My two cents (which isnt even worth 2 cents!).

So i took off and went on a morning hunt here today. had a grand time. got to the boat launch of a rather popular waterfowl area. took our time, launched the boat, set up where we wanted, shot as many shells as i wanted. we were the only hunting party inside this particular unit until about 9 am. picked up at 10:30 and came home. So tell me again what kind of problems we have? confused here?

once you go down this road it is a slippery slope. if the problem is capacity on certain select days then address it in a simple way. once the parking lot is full then the unit is full, move on! I have no real dog in any fight anymore. been there and done that! 

as a side note talking about different groups. The UWA has ran its course, so dont look to them as they virtually non existent anymore. the only thing really left of them is the almighty Facebook page. which seems to be the starting point for all these groups.


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## chuck harsin (May 1, 2011)

I just saw their FB post today, I read it in it's entirety and while something surely may have been deleted before I saw it but as it reads right now they are not supporting a blind draw, in fact they stated at least 10 times that they did not. I am not a member of fowl minded but, I think they have done some good things. I am also against any such blind draw or similar, but I just wanted to point out from personal experience UTMUDGUY "JR Oaks" doesn't always state all of the facts in his internet Lynchings and is more of a pot stirrer than anything. I have no dog in this fight but the way the OP on FB reads and the link Noble posted for their home page both state they do not support it. Let's just go hunt ducks. If it's too crowded don't go, or go somewhere else. Makes no sense to me for everyone to hate everyone. There are plenty of people that hate me for organizing youth hunts, "getting youth involved just means more people in my marsh and I'm against it!" that is literally what a guy said to me one day. If you ask me, "my Marsh" doesn't need that guy. Just get along and respect each other, pretty easy. 

The hard part about everyone wanting to form a different group and fight a different fight is that no one stands large enough to accomplish anything. Disliking a group or an individual that goes out and busts their ass to try to help build ducks is strange to me, maybe their opinion on how to build ducks is different than yours but that doesn't mean they, or you, are wrong. It seems that at all the volunteer events and such, there are the same 100 or so faces, a good portion of those faces are the same faces that somebody hates because I read so and so said about somebody on some forum. Maybe instead of hating somebody because of what you read on some forum somewhere go out and build a nest or kill Phrag or give back somehow with one of these "hoodie" guys/groups. A Few may be genuinely bad people, most are not. Remember this is just a forum with a whole bunch of people that will spew garbage because their actual name is not attached to their junk. Just go hunt ducks and remember that guy that you don't like because so and so said not to like him is the same guy that may have built the nest of the goose your kid just shot as his first bird. 

Thanks


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm pretty sure everyone knows who I am Chuck but thanks for the clarification. They asked for input on three things. Safety, etiquette and overcrowding. The logical solution would be to take care of the overcrowding and the rest will take care of itself. Problem is they very clearly were looking to take a proposal to the DWR and unfortunately claim to represent all the people who like their Facebook page referring to them as followers.

801-420-2695 sorry I don't have any boats, calls, hoodies, hats (especially flat brimmed ones)barrel stickers, truck stickers, tee shirts, decoys, choke tubes or other waterfowl gear to sell but if anyone wants to hunt train dogs or anything else give me a call.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Has there ever had any body shot and die on the opener of the duck hunt ? I know there been some yelling at each other but not body getting hurt.So there something being done right by the waterfowlers and the dwr


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)




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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

utahgolf said:


>


Where did you find this picture of me?

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## cootlover (Sep 26, 2015)

*Draw blinds*

Only lazy people would want a draw blind. I have been hunting Utah marshes for 37 years and guess what if I want to get away from people I can because its called 37 of scouting and putting in time to get away from the masses I got a great idea stay away from Farmington bay . I would put FB up against any spot until about ten years ago when it seems all the dike hunters got boats and use the same sky busting bull crap and it's ok to sit right next to other hunters guess what it not ok on the dike everyone is shooting in the same direction not in a boat . I took my buddy and his son on the youth hunt at FB about 7-8 years ago second to the last time I hunted there some guy had a shuttle service going taking kids by the boat load from the dike to the marsh and putting them in a line. long story short the last couple kids were to close my buddy got hit twice in less than a minute. We don't need draw blinds we need people to pull there heads out and resect each other hunters are the own worst enemy.


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## Fowl_faith (Aug 27, 2015)

cootlover said:


> only lazy people would want a draw blind. I have been hunting utah marshes for 37 years and guess what if i want to get away from people i can because its called 37 of scouting and putting in time to get away from the masses i got a great idea stay away from farmington bay . I would put fb up against any spot until about ten years ago when it seems all the dike hunters got boats and use the same sky busting bull crap and it's ok to sit right next to other hunters guess what it not ok on the dike everyone is shooting in the same direction not in a boat . I took my buddy and his son on the youth hunt at fb about 7-8 years ago second to the last time i hunted there some guy had a shuttle service going taking kids by the boat load from the dike to the marsh and putting them in a line. Long story short the last couple kids were to close my buddy got hit twice in less than a minute. We don't need draw blinds we need people to pull there heads out and resect each other hunters are the own worst enemy.


I here that, heads out before guns up!!


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## wileywapati (Sep 9, 2007)

Guess I'm hunting a different Farmington Bay. In all of the years hunted there, I've never once came close to getting peppered. In fact I've only had one complaint and that was probably 7 years ago. A layout boat hunter had a tender boat that wanted to make high speed laps to rally birds all fricken day. I got Keith on the phone, it was dealt with and there have been no further boat races since.

If you want to reduce crowding, it's really pretty simple. Reduce phrag and create elbow room. I know Rich and Jason have been busting their asses the past couple of years to make this happen and if anyone has paid attention to what the cattle have done on the WMA you have to be impressed.

Limited Entry blinds ain't got no place on Utah public WMA's


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## Shaunlarsen'sgirlfriend (Sep 29, 2015)

Utmuddguy said:


> I'm sure they will ask you to support all their fundraisers so they can raise money to give to the DWR to buy a voice. Used to think they were really trying to do good but seems they want to be waterfowls SFW.


I'll just leave this here..... A bit ironic, don't ya think??


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## cootlover (Sep 26, 2015)

wiley when I started hunting FB you could have 400- to 500 yards if not farther from the nearest hunter. Sorry if I cant shoot in any direction and not worry about being hit it's to close.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

yep used to be a supporter in fact have donated time and money to their causes. Turns out it was a big waste of both.


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

utahgolf said:


>


You mean the new owner of Avery?
http://banded.com/press-release/banded-holdings-acquires-avery-outdoors-for/


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