# New Winchester Rimfire is here.



## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

http://www.huntingclub.com/blogs/ar...mfire-17-winchester-super-magnum#.UOXj-azInjt

They sound interesting, but I'm sure you pay a premium and being a reloader... hmm.

I think I may go .17 Remington if I wanted a lightening fast 17 caliber.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'll stick with the HMR, if I want more oomph I'll break out the .22-250.


-DallanC


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

It might be interesting if it is a lot cheaper than the 17 Hornet. Otherwise I'll shoot something that I can reload.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Loke said:


> It might be interesting if it is a lot cheaper than the 17 Hornet. Otherwise I'll shoot something that I can reload.


The article claims that ammo will be roughly $0.30 per round, which isn't much more than the HMR which last time I bought ammo for mine was $0.25 per round.... and at an additional 500 fps and a heavier bullet.... that may be a good thing.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

If i didnt already have a .17 hmr and a .223 i might get one but i think im covered for varmints if there were any varmints to shoot.


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## ultramagfan2000 (Nov 27, 2009)

Hmmm maybe I'll just pull the old 22 hornet out. That one I can reload.


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## MKP (Mar 7, 2010)

Bax* said:


> Loke said:
> 
> 
> > It might be interesting if it is a lot cheaper than the 17 Hornet. Otherwise I'll shoot something that I can reload.
> ...


I'll believe it when I see it. I'll bet it will take a while to spread through the supply chain, and that's _if_ it catches on. Anyone who liked the 5mm Remington can tell you how difficult that can be. But I agree its very interesting and I hope it does well. Who knows, maybe some competition can bring .17HMR prices down.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

In all reality, I would rather shoot the .17 Hornet over this little thing. At least I can get some higher velocities and give myself some good bullet options


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Looks interesting. 

$0.30 per round is not too bad.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I like the idea, but I'm gonna wait n see how it plays out. I'd hate to get a rifle that will be completely useless and unsellable inside 10 years.


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

If anyone wants to go pick apart my previous predictions about this cartridge, I posted an update in that thread.  
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=46504&p=476550#p476550



Bax* said:


> The article claims that ammo will be roughly $0.30 per round, which isn't much more than the HMR which last time I bought ammo for mine was $0.25 per round.... and at an additional 500 fps and a heavier bullet.... that may be a good thing.


$15+/box is too expensive, in my opinion. ...especially if retailers mark it up to make a few extra bucks when it first comes out. (Stupid mistake that hurts rifle sales and long-term business, but they do it all the time.)

I shoot .22 WMR quite frequently, and only pay about $7 to $8 per box (50). That's mostly because ArmsCor and Fiocchi* are the primary sources, but it's still good ammo. (*before they went to CCI) 
I buy it by the brick (500), at a minimum; often, by the flat (2,500) or case (5,000). (And, since I like to stock up, I'll still be burning through pre-CCI Fiocchi .22 WMR in 5 years ...maybe 10.)

The only things I pay more for are: CCI 30 gr TNT HPs and Winchester Supreme 34 gr HPs.
I won't pay more than $10/box for the CCI load, or $12/box for the Winchester load. Since that pricing is pretty rare, and it sells out VERY quickly at that price.... I don't see it often, or it's sold out when I do see it.

--

Overall, it does seem like a pretty appealing cartridge, especially for people that don't care about reloading. 
But... I don't like .17 caliber. I don't want another 'niche' cartridge that requires factory ammo. I don't want a Savage. And, it has "Super Magnum" in its name... :roll:

On another note... this will be a new source of bullet jackets for guys that swage their own .277s, .284s, or even .30/32s; and a source of 'strong' bullet jackets for guys that swage their own .264s, .257s, and 243s. (Read that as "valuable enough to be worth picking up".  )


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Next will be a 5mm in the same rimfire case.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

wyogoob said:


> Next will be a 5mm in the same rimfire case.


This is a thought that I had the second I saw this thread... The 5mm Remington Mag's case is actually slightly larger in diameter than the .22 WMR which makes it hard for a guy to build a custom 5mm rifle because of extractor issues.... but _if_ the new Winchester round gains in popularity and _if_ it has the same case diameter as the 5mm, I could see a resurgence of 5mm's in the market due to ease of conversion.


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

Bax* said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> > Next will be a 5mm in the same rimfire case.
> ...


.17 WSM has a larger (and thicker) rim and larger case body diameter.

So, conversions wouldn't be much easier for a hobby gunsmith.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Thats what I thought as well Squigie. But since there really aren't any case dimensions published (yet) I wonder if there is any difference?

So yes, the case is bigger and thicker than the .22 WMR and .17 HMR. But so is the 5mm Rem. So I wonder if the 5mm case is similar in size?


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

The 5mm Rem Mag has a body diameter of 0.259", a rim diameter of 0.325", and a rim thickness of 0.050".

I was about to list the dimensions of the .27 caliber blanks as a reference for what we're likely to see as the dimensions for .17 WSM. However, I extrapolated some dimensions from the largest image I could find containing both .17 WSM and .22 WMR ammo. It would appear as though you may get your wish - and I may have been totally wrong, with my previous statement. 

These are just estimates, based on comparisons in a photo (with a real example of the V-Max WMR load in my hand), but it looks like the dimensions come out to:
Body diameter ~0.259-0.263"
Rim diameter ~0.325-0.330"
Rim thickness ~0.060-0.063"
OAL ~ 1.620" (loaded examples - not necessarily max OAL)
-For comparison, .22 Hornet's max OAL is 1.723".

If those dimensions prove to be true, the only things that will handicap a conversion are rim thickness and OAL.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I meant using the new 17 WSM case and putting a 5mm projectile in it.


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

Understood, wyogoob.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Here is a little more info on the cartridge with a video

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/winchester-ammunition-17-super-magnum-rimfire-17wsm-shot-show-2013/

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/savage-17-winchester-super-magnum-rimfire-rifle-shot-show-2013/


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Any newly introduced cartridge will fail at this current time due to non-existant ammunition for it. If they cant even keep the worlds most popular ammunition on the shelves, .22 rimfire, few people would even consider getting a new rifle that you have no idea how you would ever fine ammunition for it. They had a interesting idea, the timing of world events will crush this new offering I think.

The only possible thing winchester could do is guarentee a box of ammunition to be sold with each rifle. Otherwise, its worthless. 


-DallanC


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Good insight Dallan. I am wondering when the ammo situation will improve? So far I have not seen anything stating that ammo sales would be restricted


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> Good insight Dallan. I am wondering when the ammo situation will improve? So far I have not seen anything stating that ammo sales would be restricted


I dont believe anything is restricted, we have a case of panic buying.

The reasons for that vary I think. Some people feel prices will rise dramatically and never drop (some truth to that, they never did return to pre-obama levels after his first election), some fear a bullet tax... there is even talk of requiring background checks to purchase ammunition (some states currently require this). All of this is causing people to "stock up".

Some people state stores are getting in shipments but its being bought as soon as it is put on the shelve. My local walmart has had no ammunition delivered since pre-christmas, I've asked.

-DallanC


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

DallanC said:


> Any newly introduced cartridge will fail at this current time due to non-existant ammunition for it. If they cant even keep the worlds most popular ammunition on the shelves, .22 rimfire, few people would even consider getting a new rifle that you have no idea how you would ever fine ammunition for it. They had a interesting idea, the timing of world events will crush this new offering I think.
> 
> The only possible thing winchester could do is guarentee a box of ammunition to be sold with each rifle. Otherwise, its worthless.
> 
> -DallanC


That's true.
However, Winchester/Olin has been planning this release for quite some time. I'd be willing to bet they make .17 WSM a priority for production, and already have a decent stockpile on-hand.

Historically, Winchester has been one of the most successful companies, when it comes to new cartridge introductions. They know what works, and what doesn't. 
This cartridge, I think, is their attempt at controlling their own piece of the rimfire market (like CCI with .17 HMR). If that's true, they will do everything in their power to ensure the cartridge succeeds.

But, I still think .20 caliber would have been a better (and more successful) choice...


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Squigie said:


> But, I still think .20 caliber would have been a better (and more successful) choice...


I agree


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