# Have Wolves effected YOU?



## Diver95 (Feb 7, 2012)

Wolves have been a hot topic for some time now and I was wondering if you've been affected by them? Herds smaller, bulls being quiet, animals moving closer/farther from humans for safety etc.

Another question is why are some people so intent with bringing them back? This is a video of the Wolf OR-7, an extremely popular wolf on the west coast because he was the first wolf to travel to california since the early 1900's. He made national news and has gained a new name Journey. Why so much attention on this one wolf?






Very interested in what people think.


----------



## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

Wow have they affected me, they've ruined my Diamond Fork , Strawberry herd, all thus talk about them have drove me stir CRAZY


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Yes, they have had a negative effect on my life. First, we bought many of our replacement cows out of Wyoming. We do not run cows with horns on them, but the guys we deal with in WY have been leaving the horns on their cattle to protect themselves from wolves. No more replacements from WY.

We ride into the Thorofare (on the backside of Yellowstone). Where we once watched herds of elk with calves and moose in the valleys, now we never see moose. The elk are in small numbers. The wolves worry the horses while they are on the line and grazing. I am not going back in there any time soon.

The wolves have decimated the moose herds in WY. Seeing as I have a high number of points for moose, their decline (blamed on wolves and disease) has made me wait longer than expected to draw and cost me cash and time. Wolves have not been a problem in my WY elk and deer hunting areas, but it won't be long before they are taking their toll on the areas I hunt.

They are coming to Utah more and more. There are some already here. It won't take long before we all have stories of how they are effecting our lives-- in more areas than just hunting.


----------



## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

Hell yes wolves have effected me in a negative way!! 20 years ago a group of us found truely a honey hole for elk, for those of you familiar with Idaho it was near Lowman in the Sawtooth valley. Yes the very Sawtooth valley where 1 of the first wolf packs was re-introduced in Idaho
Nearly every year from 91-00 the 3 of us all killed 6pts every year and passed on lots of bulls. The largest was a heavy horned 360 bull, most were around 300-320
It is a 8 mile ride into the back country but once we got in there it was heaven. The valley was 2 miles long and maybe 1/2 wide with rolling hills, beaver ponds, pines on 1 side and aspen on the other. 2001 we went in and heard wolves every night, we worked our butts off to kill 1 rag horn, 2002 I spent 3 days scouting before the season, saw 6 cows and 1 small 5pt and a pack of 8 wolves 2 out of 3 days. Decided not to hunt that year. Fast forward to 2006 we rode into the valley in August for some fishing and scouting. I don't recall seeing any elk sign at all, didn't see the wolves but heard them at night. Have not been back since but we are talking about going in there on a wolf hunt next year
I really miss that place, **** wolves


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Have Wolves affected YOU?*

Welcome to the forum, I think. Seeing the origin of your IP address being from on campus of a left coast university, I will have to assume that your question is loaded, but I think you have already received your answer. Are you conducting a research study or what is your agenda? It just makes me wonder, if this is a study do you make purposeful misspellings or just an accident? I herd the heard walk through the valley.


----------



## Diver95 (Feb 7, 2012)

Thank you for catching the spelling mistake. I'll entertain your skepticism for a minute. I am a current student at SOU studying to be a paramedic. The rest of my family lives in Wallowa County Oregon, my Aunt help fund oregonwolfeducation.org and I want to know if people in other states are being affected in the same ways as mine. If there is as much support for ranchers in other states as there are here why can't we come together to actually make a difference? PS have you been affected by wolves?


----------



## shaun larsen (Aug 5, 2011)

we ALL, as sportsmen, are being effected each and every day by wolves. wether its in our home state or not. the wolves are starting to make their presence known in utah. that effects EVERY hunter/outdoors man in this state. some of us hunt in other states each year, such as wyoming, montana and idaho. those states are getting hammered by wolves. that effects not only the residents who live in those areas, but non residents also. there was a reason why wolves were wiped out back in the day. no one wanted them around for a reason. they served their purpose once upon a time, but are no longer needed. kinda like the dinosaurs. they were here. they had a purpose. but they are gone now. for a reason. how about we bring back a healthy herd of T-Rex's, just for the fun of it, and try to restore natural balance and see how things turn out. something tells me it wouldnt be a great idea... ever seen jurassic park?


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Sorry, but I am simply a skeptic by nature. When we get out of state members it seems to be rare that their intentions are sincere, nothing about you specifically. 
I have not yet been directly affected that I am aware of, however predation certainly may have been a reason I saw only one buck last year, I doubt it, but certainly possible.


----------



## nacho (Jun 14, 2011)

Anyone who has visited Yellowstone has been affected by the wolves! I was there last week and saw one small herd of elk. I would have normally seen hundreds. And the ones I saw were on a small island in the middle of the madison river. The guide said they hang out there for protection from the wolves.


----------



## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

No, my gun is still straight shooting as ever when they are seen. Now the elk are a different story. They have been affected in many ways where I hunt them. As you stated, they are in much smaller groups, the bulls don't bugle nearly as much as they did before the wolves moved in, there are much fewer calves which equates to a much smaller herd total each year, which means a lower harvest ratio...etc.. .


----------



## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

As primarily an angler and waterfowler there is good preliminary evidence that wolves benefit many other species including fish and waterfowl, but are detrimental to large ungulates that many have already mentioned:

The cliff notes version:
http://www.sciencecodex.com/read/an_eco ... lves-83560

The whole enchilada: 
http://www.cof.orst.edu/leopold/papers/ ... onserv.pdf

It appears that based on the comments on this thread, depending on where your personal outdoor interests are located, might influence your position regarding wolves.


----------



## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

I am not affected directly as of yet and indirectly I am not aware of any effect. However, I have seen the effects that wolves have had on some of the communities in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. When you weigh the positive and the negative of wolves there is no way that anyone can say with a straight face that the scale leans toward the positive. People are losing the ability to make a living in some areas and economies have been destroyed if not greatly hindered. 

Some will argue that the tourism that wolves have generated is a positive. But like I said before, the positive economic impact of wolf tourism pales in comparison to the negative economic impact wolves have had. Not to mention the decimation of wildlife.


----------



## blazingsaddle (Mar 11, 2008)

Yes, wolves have had an impact on me and my family. We no longer hunt Idaho elk, because of the wolves. We no longer take our annual trip to yellowstone, because of the wolves.
Its tough to see a moose in yellowstone, we see very few elk compared to years back. It is not the same place it once was. Neither are my Idaho elk spots. Ask Idaho how much revenue they have lost on wolves behalf? 

But hey, at least we have more saplings/bushes in Yellowstone, those are fun to see. You should see the traffic jams some of those new up and coming saplings cause. Last time I was there, I must have taken 400 pics of one group. If you ask me, they knew I was taking pictures of them, they stood there tall, proud, and uneaten. Posing, letting me get some pretty good close ups. That was at least till Ranger Rick stepped in and pushed the crowds back to a safe distance.
That study is a joke to say the least.


----------



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

OK, I'll bite.

I live, and hunt, in southwest Wyoming, so sure wolves have effected me.

They have kept me up nights backpacking in Yellowstone and while hunting in the Greys River drainage.

As far as the elk bugling more or less because of wolf exposure; I can't say. Seems like the longer I hunt elk the less I know about their bugling habits. 

For 3 years or so the wolves reduced the number of elk in some parts of western Wyoming to a point that I quit hunting drainages that had been sure bets for over 25 years. On a short-term positive note many of us feel that wolves pushed a good number of elk south towards where I live increasing the herd size thus increasing the numbers of additional cow/calf tags. Also, on a good note, the wolves have left my old stomping grounds and the elk have returned.

For one reason or another wolves tend to migrate out of Wyoming. So goes Wyoming; everyone wants to hunt here but no one wants to live here. Many of the wolves went to Idaho. And as everyone knows, thousands, perhaps millions, of wolves ended up in Utah. 

Good luck with your education Diver95.


----------



## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

wyogoob said:


> For 3 years or so the wolves reduced the number of elk in some parts of western Wyoming to a point that I quit hunting drainages that had been sure bets for over 25 years.


And this is exactly in line with the agenda that the pro-wolf people have. You and I and our traditions and heritage are worthless when compared to nature because we are a virus infecting this earth.


----------



## Zim (Feb 8, 2012)

Yes they affected me last year. After waiting 11 years to draw a Wyoming moose tag, my hunting unit (20) was nearly devoid of all moose, as well as elk. It was a joke. The worst hunt of any kind I've ever been on. I was in shape and hiked as much as 16 miles per day. I'd be on a mountain top at sunrise only to glass miles of empty slopes. I had 3 guides tell me I was very lucky to take the small bull I ended up getting. I've never felt so guilty for shooting an animal. Seriously. Got decent reports from 2010 & 2011, but must have dropped off the table since then.

The couple places I found a little sign the wolves were howling every night. One evening I had a bull glunking about a dozen times just inside the timber 80 yards from me. Then a wolf howled within 200 yards. Then 2 others farther and in different directions. The bull went silent, never came out of the timber, and never moved. Thank god wolves will be open season soon there.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Have Wolves effected YOU?

NO, not in the least. Despite having lived in Southwest Wyoming for a few years, spending considerable time in the Island Park area of Idaho and Yellowstone, and returning to hunt and fish in Idaho and Wyoming. I have not been affected in the least...


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Wolves have altered where I now hunt. I grew up in Challis, Idaho. When the resident wolf populations were supplemented with Canadian grey wolves in 1995, there began a consistently downward trend in deer and elk populations in the units I grew up hunting - 36B, 37, and 37A. In the early 2000s, populations declined so far, that we now do not hunt there any more. 

Did that affect me? I did not lose any revenue, job prospects, or my job or anything. My job is not reliant upon livestock, big game, or wildlife driven tourism. I still hunt, just not there. I have not lived in Challis since 1988, so there really is no direct impact to me personally. I have just found other places to hunt - mostly in central Montana - an area not yet impacted by wolves.


----------



## Diver95 (Feb 7, 2012)

It looks like a lot of you no longer hunt in areas that used to be go to spots. So heres another question.... Do you still buy as many tags as you used to? Out of state tags etc. If you don't that is a lot of money lost, and I assume that a large amount of that money would go to properly managing species like elk, deer, salmon and probably even wolves. So why doesn't anyone bring up the point that if sportsman are no longer funding the management of these species it is going to be detrimental to the balance of the environment? People might think twice before voting against hunting and sportsman if they knew that they were the reason these animals thrive in the first place.


----------



## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Diver95 said:


> People might think twice before voting against hunting and sportsman if they knew that they were the reason these animals thrive in the first place.


The non-hunting citizenry will never know this, because the anti-freedom media, hollywood, and government officials will not allow them to know these things. The only information allowed to be taught in our schools, on television, and on all other media outlets, is that man is a blight to nature, and we should not be allowed to exist on this planet. Human interaction with nature is not natural. Nature without man is kind and caring. I learned this watching disney movies.


----------



## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Diver,

You are asking questions, and were open with who you are so I will give you the same courtesy. I live in Utah, where despite the DWR, we have wolves. The area I hunt elk, the north slope of the Uintas is now the home to some wolves, how many I don't know. We had a very poor elk hunt this year, because of wolves? I don't have evidence to say yes, I believe the big storm that rolled in the night before the opener had more to do with it. I hunt deer on the Manti. So far I haven't seen evidence that they are there YET, but there presence on Diamond Fork means it is a matter of time. We had a very poor deer hunt, again I don't believe related to wolves.
Here is how wolves affect me. I support conservation groups, whose purpose HAS been to improve hunting and access for me. NOW they are spending a bunch of time/energy fighting to delist wolves. I am fine with wolves. I am fine with bears. I am fine with cats. I am fine with all the predators IF they are not protected. I just put in for a bear tag, same with cats. I hunt coyotes. HOWEVER, I am not allowed to hunt wolves, WHY?

In short. Wolves are a cause. Why? Because those that oppose them talk slow, drive trucks, use guns, etc.. I believe supporting wolves is like being an environmentalist. Like I said I live in Utah, home of the great environmentalist Robert Redford. Mr. Redford lives in Sundance, Utah. He is a preachy, haughty, environmentalist who went into a beautiful forest, and cut down the trees. Every winter he has a festival that brings in gas guzzling limos, suvs, and private planes. He is for telling me how I SHOULD ACT, not how he should. Wolf lovers are pro wolf until there dog is torn apart, or horse is killed. That is why it is OK if they live in Idaho, Wyoming, etc.., but when there is a pack in the foothills above L.A., then it will be a problem!


----------



## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> Diver95 said:
> 
> 
> > People might think twice before voting against hunting and sportsman if they knew that they were the reason these animals thrive in the first place.
> ...


BINGO! They will never tell you that sportsman's donate more money for environmental causes that any of the so called environmental groups do. SUWA, PETA, ect. make their money off of suing the government. They make some bogus claim about an animal, plant, or insect going extinct and it is the government's responsibility (tax payers) to prove otherwise. To make it worse the government has very little time to respond before they are automatically put on the Endangered Species list and we all know how efficient the government can be, so we end up with bogus animals on these lists. Meanwhile groves of clueless people are throwing money at these groups because they think they are doing something for the environment, but in reality they are padding their own pockets. Sorry for the rant, but it really pisses me off, it hits a little too close to home for me.


----------



## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

Have you been to the Cody area lately to hunt anything? Don't bother trying to hire an outfitter, they have all been run out of business because there are no animals left! 20 years ago you could find animals right out your door, walk a little bit and see all kinds of trophy animals. Not any more! I won't waste time or money in that area hunting any more so that affects me, the city of Cody and the people that work there. My hunting party found a "honey hole" in Utah about 10 years ago with size and amounts of deer and elk I didn't know existed in Utah. The last 3 years the area has gone downhill, last spring we saw wolves in the area, we probably won't even go there this year.


----------



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

As soon as elk tags here in Utah are being cut due to wolves,,,,

There will be a whole bunch of " effected yous" showing up.........

There are some that think lions, coyotes and dears are BAD predators,,

Got some new for ya,,,,, If we here in Utah see half of what has happened in Idaho,
Wyoming.........We here in Utah will know , what bad predators really are.


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

There have been several studies done looking at the economics of displaced hunters. And the pro-wolf folks will point to the tourism generated BY the wolves - with wolf watcher groups coming to see them. And in Yellowstone, that is true. The wolves have attracted considerable tourist coming just to see the wolves. And it has been pretty much a wash with those that used to frequent the Park for the other charismatic megafauna. 

But when you get into Central Idaho, the "wolf tourism" hasn't occurred at all. I know several outfitters in Central Idaho that offered "wolf watching" tours in the summer, as a way to off-set losses they were getting during the hunting season. After 10 years of offering tours without a single booking, they dropped those tours all together. In your research, be wary of economic claims of "wolf tourism." At best they are exaggerated, and at worse, totally falsified.


----------



## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

When i lived in utah i was on the bandwagon of the wolf haters. I read and watched how bad the wolves were in idaho, wyoming, and montana. I had never encountered a live wolf and only saw a set of old tracks the entire time i lived there. Now that i live in idaho only 45 minutes from large numbers of wolves my perception has changed slightly.

I bought a spike tag for the smokey mountains unit which is basically due north of twin falls and bliss idaho about 45 minutes to an hour. I went up twice to learn the unit and try and find some animals with a good friend from work who is intimate with the unit as they do a ton of lion and bear hunting there. The first trip was a double take. i was looking at the area and another friend had a controlled permit for deer. One of the best in the state.

We saw ton of deer on that trip. The only problem was 95% of the deer including large bucks were all within 1 mile of farms and civilization and very spooky. None of them were in the back country and there were no signs of deer, elk, or any other living thing except wolf tracks and scat everywhere. Piles of bones spread over large areas. No bugles and nothing worth going back to hunt for elk in that area.
Trip 2 found us 25 miles west of that area in a different drainage. We saw deer higher up in the back country there but still no elk. the same comment kept coming from my friends. "This place used to be loaded with deer and large numbers of elk". Then the **** wolves ran them all out into the desert." I just kept saying to mysef that they are typical elk and are hard to find. After opening morning of my hunt i began to realize they were not making accusations about he wolves and that they were telling the absolute truth. I talked to 3 other groups of hunters that said the same exact thing. None had seen a track or and elk. That was the only 3 groups of hunters i saw throughout the season. No pressure from hunters in the entire unit to speak of. I should have been seeing elk as this area is the type of place you can get high on a mountain and glass 5 miles in any direction. I spent 2 days doing this in 4 different drainages and never saw an elk.
The weekend found me with another guy from work at first light and 2" of fresh snow. This was gong to be the day to see anything if i was going to. As soon as it was light enough to shoot we were on the 4 wheelers driving the base roads looking for tracks. After covering about 5 miles it became clear to me there was a serious problem. We had seen 1 single set of elk tracks that had 10' between bounds heading into the desert and 8 different sets of wolf tracks 2 of which were following the solo elk. At noon we decided to go back to the trailer and eat some lucnh and possibly abandon the hunt all together. I started boiling some water on the stove and happened to look up the canyon east of us and saw a very large herd of elk moving from one valley to another. After a few minutes i finally saw a spike bull but the problem was they were a mile away and heading into an area where it would be very difficult to get a shot due to the terrain. The other concern i had was they were running as fast as they could as if something was chasing them. We made a game plan to cut them off with some creative running and hiking and 2 hours later i was 423 yards from the spike. I made the shot and the bull was dead. 
After we got him on the quads and were headed back to the truck we took a different road that they had come across befoe we saw them. There were 43 elk in the herd. Just before we had engaged them and made our presence known there had been a pack of wolves running them and appeared i had thwarted the chase. We counted 5 sets of tracks in the pack but never saw them.
3 weeks later we went back to the area to try and kill a few of the wolves. We were in for a surprise. The entire drainage was covered in fresh wolf tracks and devoid of any elk or elk sign. i later found out the herd i had shot the spike out of had traveled almost 30 miles into the desert trying to get away from the wolves. The reason i know this is the herd bull was very unique and the same number of elk we counted was in the herd that was seen in bliss. 
I later found out that only 5 spikes were killed in the smokey mountains unit which had 500 tags available. Pretty sad for a unit that used to produce about a 17% success rate on spikes and 75% on branch antlered bulls. Branch antlered success was 39%.
I have been after wolves in 6 different areas since then spanning about 80 miles of different areas. I still have not seen another elk, very few deer, and about 40 sets of wolf tracks. I have not even seen a moose since i have lived here. Now i just found out that a pack of 4 wolves have crossed the snake river and are in an area previously devoid of wolves. That elk herd is doomed as well as the fish and games up and coming "honey herd" in the south hills unit that has been growing rapidly over the last 9 years and is almost to the point of allowing a few controlled permits. Their future is dismal at this point.
There are currently more elk living in the desert in this area than in the prime elk habitat 40 miles away.
So yes, wolves have effected me tremendiously since moving up here and the story is the same across the board no matter where you go from boise and riggins clear to the utah border near pocatello and and bear lake. At last count the unit i have told you about had a quota of 45 wolves. There are 2 left before they close the season in the unit. I just hope i can kill one before they do it. It is a sad sad story playing out up here and you people in utah are in for a world of hurt. Monroe, San Juan, Dutton, the henries, and your new heard of bison in the book cliffs are in terrible danger as well as the huge moose population throughout tthe state. I hope the dnr does something before its too late.


----------



## Renegade (Sep 11, 2007)

I stand united with my American brothers. 

If one man can't protect his property from destruction by wolves because of the bureaucrats, it affects me as an American. 

If one man can't get a cow elk because some tree-hugger decided that the elk need eaten by introduced wolves instead of hunted, it affects me.

It affect all of us, no matter what you believe. From property rights, to hunting rights, no matter where in America you are-you are affected by these decisions. Speak loud & often.


----------



## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Diver95 said:


> People might think twice before voting against hunting and sportsman if they knew that they were the reason these animals thrive in the first place.


Amen!! Hunters have done more for conservation and the species we hunt more than all other groups combined. And I'm talking wildlife management as well as game management. Some may question our motives...but why should it matter? The proof is in the pudding.

It will be intersting to see how wildllife management moves forward in the future with seriously depleted hunter dollars in some of the heavily affected wolf areas.

We need to management wolves in balance with other wildlife like every other speciess immediately!!!!


----------



## johnboy (Nov 22, 2011)

I've a question or two
Are your Mule deer likely to migrate as quickly as the Elk , or are they more likely to stay put in their normal home range with wolf pressure?
Will the Elk herds now be found in non traditional areas due to wolf pressure?
If the game animals are shifting what happens to other predators such as Mountain lions , where do they get their prey?
Why i ask for , is that if the wolf population gets to a point where it either shifts prey (deer , Elk ) out of an area , what do the predators then go to
Livestock?
So if the mountain lion start on livestock , who gets culled ,the wolves or the lions
What are your rights with wolf predation against your livestock?


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

So what makes you all think wolves are to blame for seeing less elk? Prove it!

Habitat loss, weather, disease and human activity have a bigger effect on elk and moose then anything else. Again I say prove wolf are the issue. Go out with your limited resources and lack of PHD and prove it. Until then your just a crack pot hillbilly with crazy assumptions.

You know wolves don't just eat ungulates. They eat rodents also. There are not that many wolves as you think there are. How many did you see this yr hunting? 

Do these comments sound ridiculous? I think so. But they are the exact retorts that one gets when one identifies cougar as a problem in concerns to deer.

So based on the insanity I witnessed with our deer herds and cougar populations over the last 30 yrs. I have little faith wolves will be properly controlled to facilitate quality elk hunting for the masses. 

Again I say wildlife biologists make terrible game managers. There is a distinction. 

If only cougars traveled in packs howled at the moon and hunted and fed openly you would understand. But out of sight out of mind I guess. 

In Utah cougar populations estimates fall anywhere from 1500 to 3000 cats. That is 75,000 to 150,000 deer per yr. Much of them buck deer that we pay to hunt and harvest. But we are going to target coyotes instead. After all nobody is making a buck off them except a few dozen trappers. :roll:


----------



## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

IB, I don't see anything I'd disagree with in your post. Cougars have proponents. Is there much more to that story?

There is absolutely a distinction between wildlife and game managers. Are the boys and girls at the division game managers? I believe it's a mix and may put them in a bit of a pickle when trying to balance what's ecologically sound, while simultaneously trying to please hunters. how about elk? They affect deer. Kill a bunch of them? Cars? They take more deer than hunters annually. Landowners with depredation issues? They kill deer. All of these have their proponents and when/if it comes time that we as hunters want to make changes that affect their respective 10 acres, expect them to use every tool in the bag to protect what they value. 

Elk hunter wants more elk, cougar guy wants more cougar, deer guy wants more deer. Who's right?


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I can tell you 97,000 deer hunters should have more say then the 500 cougar hunters. 

And yes lets kill all the elk. 8)


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Iron Bear said:


> And yes lets kill all the elk. 8)


They attract wolves.


----------



## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

My question is how is that wolves magically become endangered once they cross the 49th parallel?


----------



## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

The 49th parallel is a magical imaginary line that makes wolves docile sweet and gentle mouse and squirrel eating doggies.


----------



## Diver95 (Feb 7, 2012)

shootemup said:


> My question is how is that wolves magically become endangered once they cross the 49th parallel?


^^^^ Very very good question. A question that seems to not come up as much as it should being that wolves are like coyotes in canada. Does the government define "Endangered" by geographic location or population? Because wolves as a whole are not lacking in numbers so they seem to be defining it, at the moment, by geographic location. And if thats the case, then logically they should re-introduce them wherever they are not, right? So right now who is the ultimate decider for where they are being re-introduced?


----------



## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

The 49th paralell? Hell boys here in utah we have a border that has magically kept the wolves in idaho and wyoming. Perhaps you all should get one of these!!!


----------



## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

Diver95 said:


> shootemup said:
> 
> 
> > My question is how is that wolves magically become endangered once they cross the 49th parallel?
> ...


The ultimate decider should be that a species that is "re-introduced" should be a native species however the sub-species that were "reintroduced" into Yellowstone were not they came from 3 different regions of northern canada. The sub-species were: _Canis lupus columbianus_, from northern British Columbia, and northern Alberta, _Canis lupus occidentalis_, from western Canada; and _Canis lupus griseoalbus_, from northern Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

The sub-species that should have been "re-introduced" should have been, _Canis lupus irremotus_ which is a much smaller _Canis lupis_ sub species (with large males weighting around 100lbs) that that still exsisted in small pockets scattered throughout many western states. Making them an invasive species! :RULES: Additionally, the sub-species they introduced average 130-140lbs with some large males weighting in at over 160lbs. Which means if they are 62% bigger they will eat 62% more meat!!

This is the best part of the whole reintroduction, the *millions* of dollars that was used to fund the project.........drum roll please............was taken from the Pitman-Robertson funds which are collected through taxes placed on the sale of firearems, ammo, fishing equiptment, etc, and is intended to be used for the improvement of habitat. So essentually sportsman "funded" the project. So in essence anyone who hunts or fishes has been effected by the "re-introduction" of wolves.

Why didnt the states stand up and rip the feds for allowing this to happen, because many states ours included depend heavily on the federal government to match funds raised by states. So what state would back talk and throw a stink? Not any who want dont want to risk loosing millions of dollars from the federal government. Who would want to bite the hand that feeds it?! Thats the type of thing something like...oh i dont know maybe....*a wolf would do!! *

So yes all sportsman have been effected whether they realize it or not.

Diver I would love to hear your rebuttal. Don't forget to address the issue of how a non-native species can have catostrophic impacts on native species. -O|o-


----------



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I wonder how we're all affected by wolves 2 years later.


----------

