# Working Too Far Out!



## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So of the two days I have hunted pheasants this year with my lab Nixon, he has done considerable well for it being his first year, and only 9 months old. Opening day he flushed a rooster, but he was probably 80 yards out when he did it, and on the other side of some thick cover, so we didn't see the bird. Yesterday he put another nice rooster up for me, but he was 60 yards out, so again, no shot. I have tried to reign him in a bit, commanding him to come, and heel, and he will, but as soon as I let him go again, he's right back out there in front, too far off if a bird were to jump. 

How do I get him to work more closely to me? He's doing great as far as quartering and whatnot, and he obviously has a nose for birds, he just keeps jumping them out of range.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

I teach this with a check cord. Get a 50' or 100' check cord, and get the dog used to trailing it behind him at your local park or somewhere somewhat open that you can take the pup frequently.

Pick a command you want to use when the dog is ranging a comfortable distance. "Hup" is a common one, so is "far enough." It's also common to use a whistle command.

When the dog is ranging and has about 20 feet of cord left, give the command. If he keeps heading away from you, just increase the resistance on the check cord. Your pup should begin to associate the command with the mounting tension.

With a flushing dog, I prefer to pull left or right on the cord and teach that it's OK to quarter and continue to cover ground when the command is given - it's just not OK to move farther out.

A good pair of ringer's gloves or something similar is handy to prevent rope burn if the dog tends to pull.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

E-collar


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

BirdDogger said:


> E-collar


+1
i would add an e-collar with an audible only tone for recall. works great. i train almost all the dogs that come here that way.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

I only use e-collars for reinforcement, and never for teaching the initial lessons. Collars work best when the pup fully understands what is wanted, and has come to expect correction in association with disobedience.

Sure, it works with some dogs with the right personalities - or if the pup has already been conditioned well to the collar in other contexts and understands what the correction implies.

The worst thing you can do is just toss an e-collar on and start zapping the dog while he is out doing what comes naturally. It's too easy to form an incorrect association between hunting and punishment, which can reduce the pup's drive.

Better to make sure the dog understands what is wanted first, and then later reinforce and polish with the e-collar. As a plus, I also find this method avoids the potential problem of having a dog that only obeys when it has an e-collar on.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Yep.

E-collar + check cord


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> Only use e-collars for reinforcement, and never for teaching the initial lessons.


Amen! NEVER use an e collar until the dog knows EXACTLY why they're being corrected. Start with "hup" training on a check cord and then move to the collar only after he gets it down in his head what "hup" means. Then use the hup command in conjunction with LIGHT stimulation and then after a while drop the verbal command all together. Hunting pheasants is best done quietly. If you have to be yelling "hup" at your dog all day you won't get many birds killed. Get him conditioned to the collar to keep him honest. Then, you need to learn how to keep up, keep your mouth shut, and keep your finger on the safety button.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

I'd shock the **** outa it! Its a lab!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Taking Tak's well documented "get western" advice from the other forum (although not exactly as he described it), I got a little rowdy with my Lab pup the other day when she wouldn't come back to me or stay decently close on a jump shooting trip. This last time out, I didn't even have to yell, just said her name and she came back within range. It was her first time out with me anywhere so that may have been the reason.... but she comes back when I call her at home now too so hopefully she just got the point that I was the boss and when I give her a command, it needs to be done. Who knows.... Glad I didn't need the E collar... just wasn't really looking forward to having to use it since I've never used one before and I could see it being easy to overuse. She's a smart little dog who is very willing to please and I definitely don't want to ruin her potential.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Nixon is pretty smart, and sometimes I think too smart for his own good. He knows the basic commands, and will listen, to a degree, but if we're out looking for birds, his high energy self takes over and he's running a million miles an hour, and just going too far out to effectively help ME get birds. I think its just going to take some time. He's young and energetic, and its going to take some work on my part to get him where I need him. I think once he settles down a bit, he's gonna be an awesome bird dog. Thank you for the suggestions guys. I will give the good ideas a try, especially the check cord, to see if that helps. I have one that's just the right length.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I have a lab as well Chaser and I know all to well what you are talking about with the energy. I had the same problem with mine. She is older now and has settled down but when she was a pup I got to where I would put her out of the kennel 2-3 miles before we got to the hunting spot and run her to burn off some of the energy. It helped alot before I started doing that the first two hours of the hunt were spent trying to calm her down.


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## Pintail Retrievers (Jul 21, 2010)

I would recommend buying Rick Stawski's Fowl Dawgs volume 1. He teaches basic and formal obedience, FF, and gets into quartering drills for upland. With the material covered in this DVD, you will have a decent dog in the blind and the field and if desired you will be ready to move onto disc 2 and 3, which has everything you need for a finished gun dog.

You can purchase it at Sportsmans or on http://www.gundogsupply.com or Ricks website. http://www.finelineretrievers.com. It is only $24.99 I believe.


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## gooseblaster (Sep 2, 2009)

I had a GSP that had the same problem. E-collar fixed her right her up. In fact, when she had the collar on, i rarely and i mean rarely ever nicked her. She knew what would happened if she didn't listen.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

gooseblaster said:


> I had a GSP that had the same problem. E-collar fixed her right her up. In fact, when she had the collar on, i rarely and i mean rarely ever nicked her. She knew what would happened if she didn't listen.


A GSP that had some good range... How is that a "problem"? :?:


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## bkelz (Dec 3, 2010)

threshershark said:


> I teach this with a check cord. Get a 50' or 100' check cord, and get the dog used to trailing it behind him at your local park or somewhere somewhat open that you can take the pup frequently.
> 
> Pick a command you want to use when the dog is ranging a comfortable distance. "Hup" is a common one, so is "far enough." It's also common to use a whistle command.
> 
> ...


sharp advice. i like it!


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## gooseblaster (Sep 2, 2009)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> gooseblaster said:
> 
> 
> > I had a GSP that had the same problem. E-collar fixed her right her up. In fact, when she had the collar on, i rarely and i mean rarely ever nicked her. She knew what would happened if she didn't listen.
> ...


Well i do some guiding on weekends with a pheasent club and the clients don't seem to like the dogs working to far out. Sometimes if they get a little out there and go on point the bird wont always hold for the dogs. Since these guys are paying for the birds i like to get them the best shot they can. Now its up to them to hit the birds


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