# bugle already



## neckcollar (Dec 30, 2007)

I dont know about you guys, but Im tired of getting the shaft as an archery elk hunter. I love the fact that we got an extra week this year, but It was put at the front of the hunt not at the back. Archery hunters need the rut to have a chance at being succesful. Why oh why do the LE hunters need the rut? They can shoot there animal at greater distances than archers, so why give them the prime time to hunt elk. September should be for the archery hunt. I would rather have the archery elk hunt run there season into the muzzle loader deer hunt, than to see us start a week early. I would put up with muzzle loader hunters, to still have a chane at a big bull during the rut. 

Any suggestions


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## Size Matters (Dec 22, 2007)

I can see your point but at the same time the LE hunters put in for years to get the chance to get a big bull. :mrgreen:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

It's never gonna change with the likes of SFW running the show. So, throw away your calls, buy a treestand, and find a water hole...

I gave up trying to call bulls in this retarded state 20 years ago. Since then I've killed 11 elk. 9 of them over water. It's the WAY if you wanna score and you can't draw an LE tag.


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm on your side! I HATE the fact that Utah makes the ARCHERY guys pay the price so that the "high rollers" can have their show on prime time. This state is so bass ackwards about the elk hunt that it's pathetic. However, I've heard that the reason things turned out the way they did this year is because a lot of the LE guys or guides or somebody with some pull went to the RAC meetings and argued their point and must have argued pretty good. If we as "average run of the mill" bow hunters want to get our voices heard then we need to go to the RAC meetings and make sure that someone is paying attention to what we have to say! If you ask me Utah needs to take notes from COLORADO. They seem to have their head on straight and know at what time of the year elk SHOULD be hunted so that more than 8% (at least in the area I hunt) are successful! But who knows, maybe it is Utah's ELK MANAGEMENT plan! 

Like I said RAC meetings!


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## bigbuck81 (Oct 10, 2007)

I dont think it would make any sense to let the archers hunt during the rut. Rifle hunters dont get the rut either, it makes sense to give it to the LE holders. All I know is if I have to wait like 13 years to draw my LE elk tag then I would hope my chances at getting into some big bulls would be very high! Sure, maybe there is a better way to manage them altogether but it just makes sense to give the rut to the LE tag holders. If the elk are running around stupid on the bow hunt then there wont be anything left for everyone else. Just my opinion. :wink:


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

bigbuck81 said:


> I dont think it would make any sense to let the archers hunt during the rut. Rifle hunters dont get the rut either, it makes sense to give it to the LE holders. All I know is if I have to wait like 13 years to draw my LE elk tag then I would hope my chances at getting into some big bulls would be very high! Sure, maybe there is a better way to manage them altogether but it just makes sense to give the rut to the LE tag holders. *If the elk are running around stupid on the bow hunt then there wont be anything left for everyone else.* Just my opinion. :wink:


Just a few thoughts about your post. I agree that the LE guys (Archery ONLY LE) should have the opportunity to hunt the rut. I'm just saying that the guys that hunt the general (ANY BULL)season areas should also have that same opportunity. General areas don't effect the outcome of LE units anyway. I agree that the spike only units should stay the way they are because those DO effect the LE holders. There are plenty of elk. Just because guys hunt the rut for the archery season does not mean that every single hunter is going to be successful and kill every single bull on the mountain. For archery LE guys during the rut the bulls are still "running around stupid" and there are still bulls left over for the muzzy and rifle LE.

I'm simply saying that the way to BOW hunt elk is in the rut. So, lets give the hunters that hunt the ANY BULL GENERAL hunts the same opportunity and allow them to hunt the rut with the LE guys. Just my two cents.

Just to be clear, I think that rifle hunter SHOULDN'T get the rut. They already have the benefit of a rifle.


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## bigbuck81 (Oct 10, 2007)

I agree, I think it would be awesome if we could all hunt during the rut... I'm just not sure if the herd would agree. Theres nothing more exciting than calling in a big bull, if it wouldnt affect the population, I'm all for it!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Here is what really happened for the change; I am surprised that folks are mad that they were given 5 extra days of hunting, would you all complain if you were hung with a new rope even if it was in your beloved state of Colorado? I am surprised at such self centered remarks, if it is not convenient then the state must be wrong... *\-\* BTW which state, CO or UT has had the most trophies over the last 5 years?


proutdoors said:


> I actually made the proposal, not the DWR, on behalf of UBA. It was done for numerous reasons:
> 
> 1)The LE archery elk hunters had spike hunters to contend with for the ENTIRE hunt. That was on top of the archery deer hunters, recreational folks, rifle LE hunters scouting for their hunts, grouse hunters. So, we changed the opener to open the same time as the archery deer. The LE rifle hunters have NO other hunts going on while they hunt their OIL tag, muzzy LE elk hunters only have muzzy deer hunters to contend with. We wanted to give the LE archery hunters *FIVE DAYS* w/o spike hunters chasing the same animals as late into their OIL hunt.
> 
> ...


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

It's never going to change. It's all about the *$$$$ *


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## BradN (Sep 25, 2007)

*What about the Youth Hunters?*

No way that archers on spike only/LE units should be able to hunt during the rut. Further, the only hunters that are hunting during the rut on any bull units are the Youth Hunters. Do you want to take the rut hunt from them? What about building a new generation of hunters?

What about muzzleloader deer hunters? Do you want to displace them, too? Their hunt is during the rut.

Archers also have the opportunity to hunt the entire state for deer and don't have to draw out. It's not like archers don't have any bones thrown their way.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

honkerfool said:


> It's never going to change. It's all about the *$$$$ *


That is a very ignorant statement! You think the money really comes from the handful of LE tags vs thousands of regular tags? :roll:


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

> by Huge29 on Sep 04, '08, 10:32
> 
> honkerfool wrote:
> It's never going to change. It's all about the $$$$
> That is a very ignorant statement! You think the money really comes from the handful of LE tags vs thousands of regular tags?


Well just think about it... They get $10 for every application used in trying to draw a LE elk tag, residents and non residents alike, then they sell all of these tags for $280 for a resident LE Elk tag which is 6 times a general tag ($45) which you don't have to even apply for, then you also have the Nonresident LE Tags that are $795 a whack which is 17 times more than a general tag. And who knows how many people apply for these tags at $10 a pop, that dollar amount i'm sure goes up really quick, especially since we are one of the most well known states for trophy bulls.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

honkerfool said:


> > by Huge29 on Sep 04, '08, 10:32
> >
> > honkerfool wrote:
> > It's never going to change. It's all about the $$$$
> ...


I see what you are saying and can appreciate that, however 100% of the $10 goes to the company in Fallon, NV who administers the draw zero to the DWR. Slayer and others could provide the exact figures, but for an example, let's say there are 10,000 spike/any bull tags at $45 = $450k in revs to the DWR vs let's say there are 1,000 LE tags (artitrary guess of the actual number of tags, someone please let me know the correct numbers) * $280 = only $280k plus a handful of non resident tags, say 100 at $795 = $79.5k for total LE revenue of $360k vs $450k in general tags in this arbitrary example, which I believe to be in the ball park as relatively accurate as far as more money from general tags vs LE, but not necessarily the actual dollar amounts. If this holds true, I think we can see that the system is dependent on revenues to sustain the system, but not as if it is up to highest bidder except in rare case of some of the special tags.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

I somewhat agree with your figuring and would think that it would come out to be alot closer in figures. I'm not exactly sure as i'm not paid to do that figuring. But i also forgot to add the Premium LE Elk tags, Which go for $508 for a resident and $1,500 for nonresident. I think that these have a longer season, but, they don't want general elk tag hunters out in the field during the rut when you have those who have paid a high dollar amount for a tag so they aren't going to move the season to accomadate the general hunters. I hate to say it but money is the number one factor in most things and its alway going to be that way. You pay to play.


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

All I know is that the elk hunt has been better since the cold front. I don't know if the time of the hunt matter as much as the time of that first good freeze. Personally, I liked it better later....but I live in a spike/antlerless area so I couldn't kill the big bulls anyway. In fact, the big bulls come in and the cow stay away. I don't really get how I'm messing up later hunts if I can't kill the animals they will be hunting.


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## neckcollar (Dec 30, 2007)

I agree with honker, this is all about the mighty dollar. I can see the archery elk hunt closing early on the spike only units, but I think that on general archery big bull units there is no reason why they cant move the hunts back 2 weeks. Start the hunt sept 1-21st. Then let the youth hunt run from aug 16th -31st. There are only so many youth tags I dont think they will scary every animal on the planet. And if necessary for the handicap hunters let them have it with the youth. 


Any objections to this proposal, I would like imput for I will be at the fall rac meetings fighting for archery elk hunters. Remember this is just on open bull units,


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## bigpapacow (Nov 15, 2007)

> BTW which state, CO or UT has had the most trophies over the last 5 years?


Utah may have more "trophies" over the last 5 years, but I bet Colorado has many more satisfied elk hunters than Utah.....hunters that can go out and kill the bull that they call in instead of having to pass because it is too big with too many points and just chasing spikes and skinheads and hoping that sometime in the next 20 years they will draw out a tag for that one hunt that will allow them that chance. And yes, I know that there are open bull units in this state already and have hunted them myself, but come on, the opportunity to hunt branch antlered bulls is much greater outside of Utah than inside.

I also think that a big reason that many elk hunters get so trophy fixated is because they know they will only have that one hunt or maybe two in their lifetime in which they will get a crack at hunting the LE units and because of that, really focus on making it count. By increasing the number of LE tags significantly, shaking up the dates(getting the rifle out of the rut...), and making primitive weapons (with their lower success rates) a bigger slice of the pie, more people would cycle through the system more often and be much more satisfied, while still maintaining a decent level of trophy quality.

But, who am I anyway. Guess that's a big part of why I dream of one day living in CO, MT, WY, or ID someday....


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

NECKCOLLAR....I'm with you. I think that it all starts at the RAC meetings. I belive, like I mentioned before, that if archery hunters want a better hunt of hunting the big bulls in the any bull units then they need to get out to the RAC meetings and let their voice be heard. I have been guilty of not going in the past but I will do everything I can to be able to go to the next one....I believe it is in NOV. Does anyone have the exact and specific date and time?


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Dont the muzz guy get to hunt elk in Nov befor the cow hunts start? I would love to hunt elk in the rut and have the chance of calling in a big bull or even a alien/spike. It the rush.last year I got withen 30 yards of a alien/spike and a couple good size bulls and some cows and listen to tehm chrip and bugle was AWSOME. . i think archery should get to hunt them in the rut. Yes we got soem stuff going for us but it not that easy to kill deer,elk with a bow.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I've heard some but there bugles are small so there barely getting going.


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

Lets all move to Idaho!  Colorado!  Wyoming!


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## peacefish (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree, there's two many "sportsmen" in this state who all hunt in my back yard...


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## Levy (Oct 2, 2007)

The Utah DWR does not cater to Archery Elk Hunting, LE or otherwise, that is a fact. Money does play into that equation along with the way Elk are managed here, but whining and complaining does little to create change. You have to work with those who make the season dates if you want to see something come to fruition. I love hunting too much to be bitter about every little detail and let it ruin what opportunites I do have. Stay positive it'll get better.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Bugling elk seems to be pointless over here after the second weekend in September. Never used to be that way.

Utah has some super hunting, just a lot of people trying to share the available tags. 

For the record, Wyoming gets 65% of its Game and Fish Department income from non-resident hunters and fishermen. So please don't you all move over here at once. :lol: :lol:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Bugling elk seems to be pointless over here after the second weekend in September. Never used to be that way.
> 
> Utah has some super hunting, just a lot of people trying to share the available tags.
> 
> For the record, Wyoming gets 65% of its Game and Fish Department income from non-resident hunters and fishermen. So please don't you all move over here at once. :lol: :lol:


I would move there, but I have no idea where Evingston is located; although, I have been to Evanston at least 200 times.  I've been on the North Slope, up Henry's, and had elk bugling all night long right out of camp. I'm talking the first weekend in October. I must admit that it was on the Utah/Wyoming border near your secret spot.


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