# future Weber whitefish



## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

I fish the middle Weber a lot during the late fall, winter and early spring months. When I first started to spend a lot of time on the Weber years ago, at least 80% of the fish I caught were typically whitefish in the 12 to 15 inch range and an occasional brown. And the whitefish were plentiful. I remember standing in one spot and catching over 20 whitefish and one brown in the space of an hour and a half. In recent years it seems that the fishing has slowed considerably. Now if I average a fish every half hour I feel I am having an above average day. But the fish seem to be bigger. Throughout this past winter I cannot remember catching a whitefish smaller than 17 inches and most are 18 to 19 inches. And I would guess that about half of the fish I have caught this past winter have been browns ranging from 10 to 22 inches. Now I don't mind catching bigger fish and I don't mind catching more browns but the SEEMING absence of replacement generations makes me wonder about the future of the whitefish fishery in the Weber. I can't help wondering about questions like: Are the browns predating the smaller whitefish faster than they can be recruited? Will the browns eventually take over the Weber and stunt like they have in the Provo? If so is there anything we can do to prevent it? Am I worrying over nothing? Are my experience and observations different from everyone else? Does anyone have good scientific information that can reassure me? Thoughts?


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## Leaky (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm not sure how to respond. I observe some of what you say but, for me, it seems to have more to do with where on the Weeb your fishing. I do think it's a good question and have asked similar questions on other locations and species, i.e. small mouth at Pineview. This is my 2 cents. I have caught some smaller whities but they seem to be in selected areas, i.e. little fishing pressure. Now I don't know what that has to do with smaller whities but I do think that fishing pressure has a lot to do with how many you catch and quality. I still can go to spots and see large groups of whities mixed with trout but they aren't bitting like past years. Are they getting educated by fishing pressure? I've noticed about 2-3 times more people on the river this year!!! I've noticed that both are much more spooky and if I can approach a school without them seeing me and get my line in more delicately without spooking em, I have much better luck. In years past, I didn't have to do this. Comes back to my suspicion of fishing pressure. What do the rest of ya think? The #'s are still fairly high but, --------------, can't argue that maybe not as high? Still alot of fishies out there though.


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## Size Matters (Dec 22, 2007)

I use to catch a ton of white fish years ago but that is because there wasnt nearly the pressure there is now I also know quite a few people that keep there limit of white fish every time they go. I drove past Devils slide saturday and there wasnt even room to pull of the road because there was about eight cars parked there fishing so I think that is the problem.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

??? your post is kind of confusing, Campfire. I fish the weber A LOT (since I was a sophmore in high school) and I don't think the fishing has ever been better. Whitefish are a schooling fish so where you catch one, you usually catch several. I have had days where I have caught 60 whitefish and only a few trout and I have had days where I caught nothing but trout. As Leaky stated, the biggest factor is in where you fish. FWIW I have seen browns caught every year the past several years over 25" (some in the _same day_). Ive still yet to land a fish on the Provo over 25", and I spend a hell of a lot of time on both rivers.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Catching fish like this I have no complaints....


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Thanks for the video, Petersen. It did reassure me a little. And Flyguy7, I think you might have a very good point. I have been giving my questions a little more thought and remember that on my last trip to the Weber I caught all of my fish from three "holes". I did catch some nice browns, too. Now if I were a 10 inch whitefish, I might be a little nervous about hanging out in close proximity to 20 + inch browns where as an 18 inch whitefish might not have so much to worry about. So where I fish could certainly skew my perspective.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

campfire said:


> I fish the middle Weber a lot during the late fall, winter and early spring months. When I first started to spend a lot of time on the Weber years ago, at least 80% of the fish I caught were typically whitefish in the 12 to 15 inch range and an occasional brown. And the whitefish were plentiful. I remember standing in one spot and catching over 20 whitefish and one brown in the space of an hour and a half. In recent years it seems that the fishing has slowed considerably. Now if I average a fish every half hour I feel I am having an above average day. But the fish seem to be bigger. Throughout this past winter I cannot remember catching a whitefish smaller than 17 inches and most are 18 to 19 inches. And I would guess that about half of the fish I have caught this past winter have been browns ranging from 10 to 22 inches. Now I don't mind catching bigger fish and I don't mind catching more browns but the SEEMING absence of replacement generations makes me wonder about the future of the whitefish fishery in the Weber. I can't help wondering about questions like: Are the browns predating the smaller whitefish faster than they can be recruited? Will the browns eventually take over the Weber and stunt like they have in the Provo? If so is there anything we can do to prevent it? Am I worrying over nothing? Are my experience and observations different from everyone else? Does anyone have good scientific information that can reassure me? Thoughts?


There are no shortages of browns or whitefish on the weber. You just need to look around more and avoid Devils Slide. Thousands of people park right there and fish. Go down river or up.


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## cane2477 (Oct 24, 2007)

This past summer and fall, I caught a lot more trout than whitefish in the Weber, and I don't know about most people, but that makes me smile! The fish seem to have been bigger as well. For me personally, the Weber has never been a better fishery!


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## Ben Trod (May 7, 2008)

That's a great brown pic Flyguy 7. Just curious if you released that fish. If so, whoever is holding the fish should be careful not to put his fingers in the trouts gills next time, that's my only complaint.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

He was released unharmed. 27" long. I have seen A LOT of fish in the 23"-26" range on that stretch.


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## caddisguy (Sep 10, 2007)

Having grown up in Eastern Idaho and having fished the Snake River more years than I would like to remember I have a hard time with the veneration accorded the lowly white fish here in Utah. The general consensus on the Snake was that white fish compete with cutthroat. I caught white fishing rising in the middle of cutts so I know they feed off the same insects in the same water. If cutthroat are feeding on the white fish fry, so much the better. 

I know catching white fish is one step up from catching nothing but I would much rather catch cutts or rainbows. I will respect the white fish for what they are and refrain from giving them the “Montana handshake” but I would rather see larger trout numbers on the Weber.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

your concensus is wrong. They do not compete. Nice ******* reference to the montana handshake. Im not a fan but I also don't squeeze every one I catch to death until it bleeds out of its gills.


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## caddisguy (Sep 10, 2007)

When two species of fish are occupying the same stretch of water feeding together on the same caddis hatch that isn’t competition?


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## Ben Trod (May 7, 2008)

All I know is a healthy populations of whitefish = Big browns, at least from my experience. There are plenty of stunted brown trout streams w limited whitefish populations. The madison river has a healthy pop of whitefish, just 1 example....


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Another thing to consider is that any body of water can support X # of pounds of biomass, or fish. So you can have a stretch of river that due to the water quality, available habitat, presence of aquatic insects, etc.... - it can support 1000 pounds of fish. So, that can be 1000 - one-pound fish, or 100 - ten pound fish. So the dynamic then is that when numbers decline, size will increase. As numbers increase, average size will decrease. This can get knocked out of whack with higher harvest rates, and then with supplemental stocking. But the idea being, the water can support just so many pounds of fish. And striking a balance between size and numbers is tricky. Espeically in heavily fished waters.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't mind catching more browns than whitefish nor do I mind catching bigger fish. The reason I am concerned about the whitefish is that they are just as has been mention, a barometer of the health of the fishery. The reason for my original post is this: Size is determined by age and nutrition. In some fisheries with many fish and poor habitat fish can be quite small and still be relatively old. But you don't see young fish that are big. My concern is that if the majority of fish in a given fishery are old and there are very few young fish to replace the older fish that die or are harvested will the population eventually crash. More importantly, is there suficient rercruitment occurring to maintain the popuation? I agree with cane2477 about how well the Weber is fishing now but is this just the boom before the bust just like our economy? The size of the fish in the Weber suggests that there is no problem with competition but is there a problem with rectuitment and replacement?


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## handsomefish (Nov 14, 2007)

Another thing to consider is your level of expertise of fishing the weber, Anyone who has fished it for a long time may have different results than someone just begining
Maybe your a better fisherman than you were when you first started
In my opinion the weber has been very stable for the last 30 years that I've fished it, Im sure that if you could tag along with the fish&game on there next survey you would see that to be the case
I feel there is a natural progression to target bigger fish and as you learn to catch bigger fish you may feel that the fishery has become better, but it really hasn't changed you've just learned to catch bigger fish


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## Size Matters (Dec 22, 2007)

The weber has changed a lot from thirty years ago there is not nearly as many whitefish or browns or cutts for that matter I use to catch tons more and never even see another fishermen there were fish in every hole not just here and there.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

The quality and the quantity are still there, they have just become more selective because of angling pressure. It might be time to update to tactics and patterns....


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