# Youth hunts...BS!



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

It is my opinion that in some kind of distorted reality, introduction kids to hunting by allowing them to be the hunter at some crazy young age is somehow going to save hunting for future generations...I call BS!

Oh sure, how dare I say that. What, I don't love kids, or love hunting, or blah blah blah...not at all. There is no doubt that exposing your kids, taking your kids hunting, etc, will lead many to being hunters when they get older. But all this stuff we are doing now, in the greater picture, I think might even be counter productive, in the "we got ta save hunting" mind set of today. Here's my thoughts.

First, we set aside LARGE blocks of permits that only the "youth" qualify for and we set aside LARGE blocks of prime hunting time so these kids a special hunt. I believe that the parents of these kids should be the primary hunters in a hunting party. You hear it all the time..."well, my 14 year old son drew a permit this year"...the part you don't hear is "of course, I didn't draw cause I wasn't eligible for 25% of the tags simply because of my age". Why, why can't the kid follow his dad around for a couple more years like it has always been...might I add, since the dawn of time! Kids should be taught to do things by watching their parents. I believe that kids will learn to love hunting more by wanting to do as their parents do, than being taken out and allowed to shoot an elk as their introduction to hunting. Am I wrong?, I think not, and history is on my side. Hunter numbers haven't risen in the last few years in the "let's let the kids be the hunters" scheme of today.
It is possible that the reduced number of parental hunters is a major factor in the decline of hunting. The kids have no role model, just an enhanced feeling of entitlement.

How many dads have given up hunting because they just can't get a permit. Dads(I guess I should include the lady hunters in this also) that in the past would be out with their kids following behind, learning, watching, dreaming of their day to come. Not much chance these kids will go up to be hunters.

OK, all you people that are happy with the way things are now...lets hear from you.


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Sounds like a solution without a problem to me. I'm not bothered in the least by youth hunts. 

They get one single day in the marsh each year before we all get to join in the next week, and that has been some of the most fun days duck hunting I've ever had. None of which was with my own kids. (They still aren't old enough yet.) 

They get one week of elk hunting with very few permits available when there likely wouldn't be any elk hunts going on with the general units if these were not happening anyway. 

Then they get a small ratio of the tags set aside for them in the general draws. 

Again, I see a solution here without a problem.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

There's no doubt some kids draw tags on hunts so their parents can hunt vicariously through them. A kid usually only cares about the biggest set of horns because their dad (or mom) does.

I really like the idea of special youth hunts, what I don't like is when they are at the same time as the regular "adult" hunt. I suppose some grown ups are intimidated by a youth hunter especially because it's not fair they would get the chance to hunt during a prime time of the season. News flash: you can out hunt and out shoot them. Get over it.

Today, most kids are not interested in hunting. If you wait until they are 16, the chances of them leaving sports, friends, and girls [boys] for a miserable and tiring day in the rain or cold ain't that likely.

I started hunting with my dad as a tag along when I was five. Kept an interest in it even when I slipped on an inclined rock and face planted on a frigid Nov morning because my hands were in my pockets wearing some stupid cheap hiking boots all but made from plastic because my parents couldn't afford something better.

Had my first license when I was 12 ( no age limit in NM), killed my first elk, a little raghorn, when I was 15 in competition with grown ups. We didn't have youth only hunts back then. Would've been nice though, that's for sure.


----------



## jsc (Nov 13, 2007)

I really like that we provide opportunities for youth hunters. My kids are still too young to hunt, but I like that we at least promote hunting to youngsters. The youth already have very little chance at any premium limited tag in this state due to the points system currently in place, and the fact they were not even around when points started. Setting aside a SMALL percentage of the overall hunting permits that are given out to the youth hunts is not a big deal. I also like the youth opportunities for upland game and waterfowl and have helped youth on these hunts and I feel it does help in recruitment. Fact is that we just do not have the amount of permits or big game to support all the people who want to hunt every year and some people do not ever want to sit on the sidelines.


----------



## toasty (May 15, 2008)

If my kids didn't big game hunt, I would not big game hunt either. In fact, I took a break from game hunt for about 5 years until my son wanted to deer hunt and that is what got me back into it. Other than GS deer tags and the youth any bull, there really isn't much preference that the youth get for big game. 

For birds, the youth only days are great, I think it helps motivate adults to take the time to get the youth out and be patient while they learn. Anyone that has been on a youth hunt knows how much coaching adults do when they don't have anything to shoot themselves. I have seen very valuable safety lessons taught on youth hunts that probably would have been overlooked if other were hunting. 

I think the state has it about right. When my kids are grown, I will look forward to taking out grandkids. For me, hunting with kids is 10x more fun than hunting with adults. I don't think they feel entitled, but I have seen them get frustrated when they struggle to have "success". It takes a lot of time and years of hunting to understand "success" isn't defined by horns or number of birds. I think many adults never get to that point, but I think the extra opportunity helps keep them interested until they learn.


----------



## toasty (May 15, 2008)

High Desert Elk said:


> Today, most kids are not interested in hunting. If you wait until they are 16, the chances of them leaving sports, friends, and girls [boys] for a miserable and tiring day in the rain or cold ain't that likely.


I agree. Many kids only have a small window that they are interested in trying to hunt. If they don't hunt during that window, I think they move onto other things. Even when kids do hunt, sometimes it doesn't take and they move on to other things anyway.

I have a neighbor with a 13 or 14 year old niece that is showing a lot of interest in big game hunting and she didn't draw a single tag this year. When they show interest, it sure would be a good thing to have a tag for them. This is what I like about the mentor tag. The sad part of this story is no one in her family drew a tag that could be mentored. She will be a guarantee tag next year if she is still interested in hunting, but wouldn't be guarantee next year if we didn't have youth allocation for GS deer. For that reason, I like the youth allocation for GS deer.


----------



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Special Snowflakes


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Youth hunts have been some of the best hunts I've ever been on. Love them! 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

swbuckmaster said:


> Youth hunts have been some of the best hunts I've ever been on. Love them!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


That's because you have a couple of great youngsters to take out that appear to really love the sport and challenge of hunting.

I have see why to many kids forced into it by their parents that could care less about hunting. And would rather be sitting home playing video games.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Well, anyone who doesn't like youth hunts probably hasn't been on many of them. I LOVE them. My home is full of mounted animals that my kids have killed on their 'super spoiled brat hunts'. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

My perspective is a bit different though. My girls are not way into hunting and they may or may not continue after I'm gone. What they love is the connection that WE share while hunting. A special time with daddy when he is in his best place. 

I'd rather hunt with my kids than hunt myself. It's funner when they shoot than when I do. 

It's debatable whether extra opportunity is spoiling young hunters but one thing's for sure.....its spoiling their dads and we LOVE every minute of it.-------SS


----------



## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Someone is butthurt as a Dad you should probably look into other means of getting a tag i.e different seasons weapons or better yet volunteer to help one of these kiddos fulfill their tags. You would be suprised how good of a feeling helping someone out can be.


----------



## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

This reminds me off that south park character.. they took errrrrrr jobs. Youth tooook errrrrrr tags


----------



## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

As someone who didn't have lots of opportunities to hunt as a youth, and subsequently didn't hunt from 16-22 years old due to girls and other distractions , I sure would have enjoyed a hunt like that when I was a kid.


----------



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I sure did love special youth hunt days/seasons when I was young enough to benefit. Youth waterfowl hunting day was better than Christmas. I always had at least 1, and often 2, big game tags per year as well. Good times.

That being said, I don't think I needed any of the special opportunities I got to get me to enjoy hunting. I enjoyed it before I was even old enough to carry a gun. I think special youth opportunities provide young hunters with good days, but I'm uncertain as to their long-term effect on hunter recruitment. I'd never campaign to get rid of them, though, since I have so many good memories from my hunting experiences as a youth. And besides, I'll definitely want them around if I end up with kids who hunt.


----------



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Hunting is declining in this generation, it sure didn't decline in my generation. Is it possible, just maybe, that we are doing something wrong. You guys all tell me how much YOU love the youth hunts, how great it is for YOU to do the youth hunting thing...yeah, maybe your right...All I know is that it's YOUR kids that are loosing interest in hunting, it's YOUR generation that is letting the joys of hunting slip through the fingers of the future. Gee, maybe we're both wrong, I don't know...all I know is hunting is on the decline and what we're doing right now don't seem to be doing much good.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Unfortunately, it's because people are looked down upon these days because they hunt. [Negative] Peer pressure is a powerful thing.

I've seen my kids have victories and losses on hunts, youth only hunts. However, when they do get that edge without some jackwagon with adjustable turrets shoot the animal from 1000 yds out from under them, it's a good day to see the grin on their face when they connect. Youth hunters get the same thrill that we do.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> Hunting is declining in this generation, it sure didn't decline in my generation. Is it possible, just maybe, that we are doing something wrong. You guys all tell me how much YOU love the youth hunts, how great it is for YOU to do the youth hunting thing...yeah, maybe your right...All I know is that it's YOUR kids that are loosing interest in hunting, it's YOUR generation that is letting the joys of hunting slip through the fingers of the future. Gee, maybe we're both wrong, I don't know...all I know is hunting is on the decline and what we're doing right now don't seem to be doing much good.


There might be something to that. A few years back I ran into a guy opening morning that had permission to hunt the same spot as me. We chatted for quite a while and he lamented he bought a landowner or conservation tags for all his kids as they got old enough to hunt big game and killed some monster animals. After a couple years of killing big thing after big thing, they just lost interest in it and he couldnt get them to go anymore.

I asked him if they might have had more interest had he started them off on a spike or 2pt and worked up to that elusive 4pt after a few years of "harder" work. He got pretty quiet after that, I had the feeling he was thinking getting them those huge deer and elk right out of the gate wasn't the best idea.

-DallanC


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that Dallan hit the nail on the head with the youth hunts. 

Today's kids are taught from the first day in school that there are no losers and that we all win and get a trophy. They run a race and come in last and get a trophy. They loose all their soccer games and they get a trophy. The first large game animal tag they get they go out and shoot a bigger buck or elk than their dad or granddad ever did, a trophy. They turn 16 and instead of going out and getting a job mom and dad buy them a vehicle to drive to school instead of ridding the school bus or walking to school. The interesting thing on that last one is that I live across the street from a high school. Most of the kids there drive newer vehicles than I do, and none of them have a job. 

Then comes the reallity of it all, they find out that the odds were stacked in their favor from day one and now they have to work at getting that trophy. They find out that in order to now draw that deer or elk tag they have to put in with all the rest of us and usually wait a year or two for that general season deer tag. That elk tag they were able to draw, well they might be able to draw one in the same area in 15 or 20 years. 

So what do they do? They loose interest in what dad wanted them to do and go chasing girls which at times is a lot more fun than hunting but can be just as disappointing.


----------



## Wasatchwigeons (Aug 27, 2017)

I think that hunting may be on the decline due to lack of adults that hunt so kids do not grow up with it. Personally my dad does not enjoy hunting and I got into by myself and I have to beg him to go out. Maybe it isn't the new generation that is failing to want to hunt but maybe the parents who don't teach their kids. Also there is a major issue with people today and how disconnected they are with where their meat comes from, it is so easy to go to the store and not think about how something had to die for what you are eating. Why would you want to kill something when you could just go to the store and get some meat on the shelf? I think a lot of kids my age have no desire to hunt because they have nobody who passes on the passion to them.


----------



## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

BPturkeys said:


> Hunting is declining in this generation, it sure didn't decline in my generation. Is it possible, just maybe, that we are doing something wrong.


Because yeah, the generation that is raising this generation clearly isn't to blame. Frankly, hunter participation has declined as a percentage of the total population for several generations. Trying to ensure kids have opportunities... Yes what a terrible idea!


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

You guys are overthinking this. The number of people out buying trophy tags for their kids trying to get them hooked is minuscule in comparison to the rest of us that hope our kids get any tag and go out and again hope to shoot the first legal animal they see. That is the vast majority of the kids today out hunting, just like anyone else on here if they hunted when they were kids. 

The world is different today than it was 20 years ago. Hunting used to be engrained into our culture. I remember all my older siblings had a "Deer Hunt Dance" in high school. It was called "Harvest Dance" a couple years later when I came through the same school. Those good old days when even most non-hunters in Utah were interested in the culture are gone, and I'd assume that contributes more to our youth losing interest in hunting than the state drawing 450 resident youth only bull tags "in the prime time" to hunt general units that have very few elk. 

In the words of Jerry Jones, quit trying to circumcise a mosquito.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Critter said:


> I think that Dallan hit the nail on the head with the youth hunts. The first large game animal tag they get they go out and shoot a bigger buck or elk than their dad or granddad ever did, a trophy. They turn 16 and instead of going out and getting a job mom and dad buy them a vehicle to drive to school instead of ridding the school bus or walking to school. The interesting thing on that last one is that I live across the street from a high school. Most of the kids there drive newer vehicles than I do, and none of them have a job.
> 
> Then comes the reallity of it all, they find out that the odds were stacked in their favor from day one and now they have to work at getting that trophy. They find out that in order to now draw that deer or elk tag they have to put in with all the rest of us and usually wait a year or two for that general season deer tag. That elk tag they were able to draw, well they might be able to draw one in the same area in 15 or 20 years.
> 
> So what do they do? They loose interest in what dad wanted them to do and go chasing girls which at times is a lot more fun than hunting but can be just as disappointing.


Except none of the youth hunts are trophy hunts unless your talking about a mentor tag on a LE unit and even that hunt will be tough to get a trophy without alot of luck.

The youth bull tag only allows the youth to hunt a general unit a few weeks early. They can hunt the same area every year if they want.

Never seen trophy waterfowl on a youth hunt

Imho the thing that has killed hunting more then anything is low muledeer numbers and pick your weapon. Let's face it most people want to use a rifle and hunt where ever they want. The LE units that were created forced everyone who didn't draw a tag to hunt general units putting unfair ammount of pressure on a resource. If the entire state wasn't managed for trophy LE experience we could have a more family friendly experience.

It's almost impossible to get a family hunting tradition going. I'm trying like hell and I can't find anyone that wants or can hunt with the same weapon or time I hunt. Without fail if I draw an archery tag my friends dont. If my kids draw a rifle tag their kids dont. So my hunting camp is small. Hopfully my girls will stick with it and marry guys that enjoy hunting as much as they do. However that is stacked against them with all the non hunting snowflakes that are being brought up.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> Hopfully my girls will stick with it and marry guys that enjoy hunting as much as they do. However that is stacked against them with all the non hunting snowflakes that are being brought up.


I might be interested if any of your daughters are 18+.

:mrgreen:

(but based on your posts I'm inclined to think not...)


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Clarq said:


> I might be interested if any of your daughters are 18+.
> 
> :mrgreen:
> 
> (but based on your posts I'm inclined to think not...)


16 and 13

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> If the entire state wasn't managed for trophy LE experience we could have a more family friendly experience.
> 
> It's almost impossible to get a family hunting tradition going. I'm trying like hell and I can't find anyone that wants or can hunt with the same weapon or time I hunt. Without fail if I draw an archery tag my friends dont. If my kids draw a rifle tag their kids dont. So my hunting camp is small.


This. What kind of general permit numbers could we have if we just managed the current units to their management objectives? I'd bet we could have an additional 10,000 permits. That would equate to 10,000 more people hunting. But we are slipping even farther away from more opportunity. There is a current strategy the UDWR has been obliged to consider-- more LE deer tags on general season units.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Packout said:


> This. What kind of general permit numbers could we have if we just managed the current units to their management objectives? I'd bet we could have an additional 10,000 permits. That would equate to 10,000 more people hunting. But we are slipping even farther away from more opportunity. There is a current strategy the UDWR has been obliged to consider-- more LE deer tags on general season units.


Sucks to hear!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Youth hunts, "I think are good", but I think they should be the ones to do the Management Hunts. Let them cull the smaller or weird ones and then MAYBE they will stay interested waiting for a chance for a bigger one later on. But true I do get way more enjoyment seeing my kids being successful then me.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Dallan eluded to what I posted earlier, most kids only care about the big horns because a parent does, and to add, what they see on tv "he just wasn't big enough" or "shooter! shooter!" doesn't help.

I have bought landowner tags for my kids, for the opportunity to go shoot a cow elk. If I left it up to luck of the draw, they wouldn't get to go, unless we go NR. At least now, we have in NM, a youth encouragement hunt for those who don't draw. An online, first come first serve, "OTC" limited number of permits for a cow in late Nov or late Dec depending on what hunt/unit (20 to 50 each) you choose. So, in NM, if a kid wants to hunt, they can. Sadly, there are those dad's out there who feel it a disgrace for their 14 yr old to shoot a cow...


----------



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Clearly there are more issues involved in the decline of hunting than a changing viewpoint from the youth. Youth hunts are just part of the entire modern scheme that, in my opinion, is not only failing to keep current hunters but is actually driving people away from hunting.

I try to compare the long term effect of applying our current hunting scheme to other activities i.e., fishing: lowering the total number of licences sold, limiting the total number of people that could fish on a given lake or stream, mandating what type of fishing lure/bait can be used, setting aside special times for those fisherman that choose to use a certain type of lure/bait, trying to teach people that only big fish make for a "quality" fishing trip, etc,etc...how many years of that would it take before people started to loose interest in fishing?

I can't think of any other legal human activity that is more regulate than hunting...and it seems that almost all regulations somehow end up limiting opportunity in one way or the other.


----------



## UintaYETI (Jan 9, 2017)

I am 28 years old and have a fiery passion for hunting, fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. The reason I have such a strong pull is because of these Youth Hunts and the opportunity these hunts provided me to get out in the field and learn. 

I started following my father around in the field by the age of 5, and I learned ton and gained so much interest that I was chomping at the bit to get out and do it myself by the time I was old enough (12). 

As much as you can learn from following and watching, there is no substitute for the real thing. There is no way to gain the feeling of harvesting your first animal, or bagging your first limit of ducks without actually doing it. These Youth Hunts also gave my dad the opportunity to focus on teaching me, and showing me every aspect, scenario, precaution, and technique that he knew. Rather than him being focused on harvesting an animal, he was 100% focused on making sure I would be successful, and learn the things I know today. 

There is also nothing in this world that can replace that father/son time we had in the field during those hunts. Those are my most cherished memories of him and I, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.

By no means has it turned me into an "entitled hunter". It simply elevated my interest and respect for the animals and the tradition of hunting. It's up to you to teach the youth the right way to do things. I can't wait to someday take my future son/daughter into the field for youth hunts and pass down the knowledge my dad passed to me.


----------



## Stickboy (Oct 28, 2010)

It is the parents job to make sure they do not raise an entitled kid. I don't think allowing youth to hunt a general elk unit a week early is going to make or break an entitled kid. 

I love the youth hunt! since my kids have gotten old enough to hunt...i prefer to enjoy this small window of time...and usally do not hunt myself (if a tag is available for me at the same time). 

I no longer live in Utah and the circumstances are different out here, but from what I have seen through my own kids eyes, it is not socially acceptable to hunt in large part. My daughter is very reluctant to post any pics of her hunts or days at the range for that matter. 

I think the decline of interest in hunting is definatley multifacited. The DWR could do more...land owners could do more...hunters could do more...State could do more...feds could do more. But for me it is more about the decline in how the overall population views hunting.


----------



## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I have a fiery passion for the outdoors and didn't have any youth hunts and my it was a special time with my family. Special youth hunts aren't essential but we need more opportunities to hunt here. This state is all about limiting opportunity and selling it off to highest bidder. Everyone that favors a state that is managed for "limited" every for the biggest and best shouldn't have a special tag for their kids they stole those opportunities so they could hunt the "big" one.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

In this age of electronic devises, social media, video games that have unbelievable graphics and things we as adults couldn't even fathom as youngsters there is just too much competition for kids time. They have grown accustomed to immediate gratification. The challenge is to introduce them to alternative things, such as camping, fishing and hunting that require a little more effort than using a controller to kill bad guys with a laser cannon on a screen. I'm certain you have seen, or experienced children as young as a few months playing games on their parents phones, ipods or whatever device they have. How do you convince them something is funner than that when they have been doing it from the earliest memory? Even if you can get them out they bore really quickly and don't stayed engaged for any length of time at all. It really scares me that it is a trend that won't be changing.
That being said, I think we have to give them every opportunity to experience the thrill and joy of hunting as soon as they are responsible enough to do it. The youth programs facilitate this so I say let them continue. Realistically only a small percentage will be lured away from the electronics and the sensory load they get from it but we need to at least expose them to the outdoors and other ways to entertain themselves. With my children it is a 50/50 split. Half love to hunt, the other half could care less. It took me a while to realize it's entirely up to them. You can't make them love it if they don't. All you can do is introduce them to it and hope for the best.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I'll blame DNA :grin:
I'll start with my father who was an avid hunter and gave both myself and my brother equal opportunities to go hunting and fishing growing up.
My brother went but as he became old enough to hunt (14 birds /16 Big Game) he went pheasant hunting twice and deer hunting once. To my knowledge he has never gone out into the field hunting since. Although he enjoys getting outdoors.
He has 5 boys 2 who fish none that hunt.
Myself I could hardly wait until I could hunt and hunted and fished every chance I got.
I made every effort to get my kids involved with hunting at an early age although they were still in 14/16 age group for hunting.
Now I have 2 sons who I would classify as avid hunters, one that is a casual hunter and a daughter who married and avid hunter.
All my grand kids who are old enough to hunt, hunt every chance they get. Luckily the oldest are just past the age for the youth hunts so they got to experience some success as they were starting out.
The biggest problem today is time. We use to go through a brick of .22 every weekend hunting rabbits, pot guts or whatever. Having plenty of time and experience hunting and shooting allowed us to take advantage of the opportunity presented during the big game hunts.
I have always said the best way to learn to hunt is hunting. 

Sorry for the old man ramble.


----------



## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Hunting isn't Killing and Fishing isn't catching Fish all the time. I think the problem occurs when we have to kill to have fun. Kids need to be taught to enjoy the outdoors not the killing part. I read all the time, I hope he or she is hooked now after they kill. Wrong message I beleive. They should be hooked before the kill just being outdoors should be the hook


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

BPturkeys said:


> I try to compare the long term effect of applying our current hunting scheme to other activities i.e., fishing: lowering the total number of licences sold, limiting the total number of people that could fish on a given lake or stream, mandating what type of fishing lure/bait can be used, setting aside special times for those fisherman that choose to use a certain type of lure/bait, trying to teach people that only big fish make for a "quality" fishing trip, etc,etc...how many years of that would it take before people started to loose interest in fishing?
> 
> I can't think of any other legal human activity that is more regulate than hunting...and it seems that almost all regulations somehow end up limiting opportunity in one way or the other.


You make a valid point, a draw system certainly puts a damper on ability to hunt. If it were not for NR OTC, I would only get to hunt big game an average of every 3 to 4 years. The other option would be to move to a state that had OTC opportunites.

The only difference for fishing, however, is an almost unlimited and quickly replenished resource.


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> Youth hunts are just part of the entire modern scheme that, in my opinion, is not only failing to keep current hunters but is actually driving people away from hunting.


Youth hunts are driving people away from hunting? I'm starting to think that these are not your real beliefs, but you're just stirring the pot. Because with all due respect (and I truly mean with all due respect), that is bat (poop) crazy, right there.



BPturkeys said:


> I try to compare the long term effect of applying our current hunting scheme to other activities i.e., fishing: lowering the total number of licences sold, limiting the total number of people that could fish on a given lake or stream, mandating what type of fishing lure/bait can be used, setting aside special times for those fisherman that choose to use a certain type of lure/bait, trying to teach people that only big fish make for a "quality" fishing trip, etc,etc...how many years of that would it take before people started to loose interest in fishing?


Aside from the limiting of the number of fishing licenses sold, we basically already do all that.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

As far as the killing part for hunting, that is exactly why we go, period. Otherwise, more camping trips with a camera is all you need...


----------



## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Brookie said:


> I think the problem occurs when we have to kill to have fun.


Killing for fun? Now we're talking my language! It has been about a year since Karl's "why do you hunt" post...some of my best work went into that thread...


----------



## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> I'm starting to think that these are not your real beliefs, but you're just stirring the pot. Because with all due respect (and I truly mean with all due respect), that is bat (poop) crazy, right there.


That's my sentiment at well. Esp reading a comment about hunting being the most regulated legal human activity. Don't get out and drive much, huh?


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Brookie said:


> Hunting isn't Killing and Fishing isn't catching Fish all the time. I think the problem occurs when we have to kill to have fun. Kids need to be taught to enjoy the outdoors not the killing part. I read all the time, I hope he or she is hooked now after they kill. Wrong message I beleive. They should be hooked before the kill just being outdoors should be the hook


Being successful is a big part of hunting/fishing and imho cannot be over looked. I have a friend who didn't take his kids fishing and only took his kids on backcountry wasatch front bow hunts for trophy deer and elk. His kids never tasted success and worked their butts off. He never put in for cow or doe hunts. His kids now don't like hunting. It Didnt help with mom fighting him every step he took to introduce them.

I did the exact opposite and I started my kids off on pearch, blue gill, Uintah stream trout and bow fishing carp. My kids enjoyed success early and often. My wife gave me 100% support. I put my kids in for cow and doe hunts to supliment the years they don't draw a rifle tag. We even do canned pheasant hunts on pheasant farms. Even though my girls are better shots with a bow then most adult grown men I still wanted them to have a rifle tag. It gave them a long 3 weapon season and a very good chance at success. In the end in 15 years of hunting we have never eaten tag soup with any species of animals we hunt. We always catch fish even if I have to change species to get something to bite. My kids love to hunt and fish!

Hunting in our house is a life style! My girls shoot bows year round and we don't own a video game.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Having said all the above^ there is no guarantee my kids will still hunt when they leave the nest. Maybe I ruined them with to much success.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

swbuckmaster said:


> Having said all the above^ there is no guarantee my kids will still hunt when they leave the nest. Maybe I ruined them with to much success.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I liked what old Doc Potter said on the show M.A.S.H one time when talking about his daughter. He was talking about how much he enjoyed taking her fishing and how much fun it was for her. He then went on to say that she decided one time to quit fishing and the reason was that fish stink and boys don't.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Critter said:


> I liked what old Doc Potter said on the show M.A.S.H one time when talking about his daughter. He was talking about how much he enjoyed taking her fishing and how much fun it was for her. He then went on to say that she decided one time to quit fishing and the reason was that fish stink and boys don't.


Speaking about that. My oldest isn't going on her last year youth opening goose hunt. It's a slam dunk. I secured a few fields that have about a 120 geese coming in like clock work. She got asked to go to homecoming dance and he doesn't hunt or I'd say that's the perfect date. So I'm beginning to see that now and it hurts in a way being the second wheel.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Speaking about that. My oldest isn't going on her last year youth opening goose hunt. It's a slam dunk. I secured a few fields that have about a 120 geese coming in like clock work. She got asked to go to homecoming dance and he doesn't hunt or I'd say that's the perfect date. So I'm beginning to see that now and it hurts in a way being the second wheel.


Well, make the best of it. Be sure to be cleaning that Goose Gun when that young man comes over to pick her up. Totally acceptable 










-DallanC


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Speaking about that. My oldest isn't going on her last year youth opening goose hunt. It's a slam dunk. I secured a few fields that have about a 120 geese coming in like clock work. She got asked to go to homecoming dance and he doesn't hunt or I'd say that's the perfect date. So I'm beginning to see that now and it hurts in a way being the second wheel.


Well, make the best of it. Be sure to be cleaning that Goose Gun when that young man comes over to pick her up. Totally acceptable 










-DallanC


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

DallanC said:


> Well, make the best of it. Be sure to be cleaning that Goose Gun when that young man comes over to pick her up. Totally acceptable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My one son is very proficient at long range shooting. He has his LR rifle sitting on the coffee table when the young men arrive. He just tells them "you'll never hear it coming"


----------



## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> Speaking about that. My oldest isn't going on her last year youth opening goose hunt. It's a slam dunk. I secured a few fields that have about a 120 geese coming in like clock work. She got asked to go to homecoming dance and he doesn't hunt *yet* or I'd say that's the perfect date. So I'm beginning to see that now and it hurts in a way being the second wheel.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


There, fixed it for you. Sometimes a kid just needs somebody to offer to take them...Lots of teenage boys try new things to impress a girl. I've got a number of national dancing championships and the leather pants and high heels (men's heels, to be clear) to back that statement up!


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I relate almost 100% with SW's last 3 posts-- except so far it has been with my sons and there have been many tags I wouldn't let them fill. I even had a kid miss the opener of a Colorado deer hunt to go to preference.

I remember when each son was 12 they had deer, elk and antelope tags. The first son shot a buck, a lope and I wouldn't let him fill his elk tag when we were in the middle of a herd. The other son shot a buck, an elk and I wouldn't let him shoot a lope when we had 150 within 200 yards of us. Felt like we didn't need to kill just to kill. Those were great experiences and after that my kids would elect to pass on opportunities to shoot. 

When my oldest was 13, we worked hard hiking into look for a buck he spotted. It was a stud. He made the best shot I may have ever seen on the buck at 60 yards as it bounded thru the trees. I was so happy and so scared! I told him he did awesome, but that he still needed to shoot two points. 

I have seen my friends put so much emphasis on "size" that the kids either lost interest because they could not meet the high bar or they had so much success that they moved onto other things as adults.

When it comes to youth opportunities, let them do it. But don't make it about trophy antlers-- make it about a trophy experience and memory. I hope my kids choose to hunt with me once they are adults. At least that is my 2 cents. 

..


----------



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

swbuckmaster said:


> Speaking about that. My oldest isn't going on her last year youth opening goose hunt. It's a slam dunk. I secured a few fields that have about a 120 geese coming in like clock work. She got asked to go to homecoming dance and he doesn't hunt or I'd say that's the perfect date. So I'm beginning to see that now and it hurts in a way being the second wheel.


It's a shame they have to grow up, eh?

On the other side of the spectrum, I had so much fun with my outdoor activities that I had practically no interest in dating while I was in high school. The last thing I wanted to do was waste a precious Saturday on something like a dance. It used to drive my parents crazy. Looking back, it wouldn't have killed me to be a little more social and hunt a little less. It can be really tricky to strike a balance between hunting and the rest of life. You can swing just as far to one side as you can to the other.


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Well, make the best of it. Be sure to be cleaning that Goose Gun when that young man comes over to pick her up. Totally acceptable


I think SW's daughter can handle herself. haha

SW-- I'll drop my 12 yo daughter off in the morning so she can fill your oldest's spot in the blind. haha

..


----------



## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

johnnycake said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
> ...


TMI !!!!


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Clarq said:


> It's a shame they have to grow up, eh?
> 
> On the other side of the spectrum, I had so much fun with my outdoor activities that I had practically no interest in dating while I was in high school. The last thing I wanted to do was waste a precious Saturday on something like a dance. It used to drive my parents crazy. Looking back, it wouldn't have killed me to be a little more social and hunt a little less. It can be really tricky to strike a balance between hunting and the rest of life. You can swing just as far to one side as you can to the other.


I was like you. I didn't know girls existed until I was out of high school

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Packout said:


> I think SW's daughter can handle herself. haha
> 
> SW-- I'll drop my 12 yo daughter off in the morning so she can fill your oldest's spot in the blind. haha
> 
> ..


She's welcome to come if you like

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Pack out I sent you a pm

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Clarq said:


> Looking back, it wouldn't have killed me to be a little more social and hunt a little less.


You don't know that. You're alive now, so what you did clearly worked...Better be safe than dead. Less socialization and more hunting for you, [juris] Doctor's orders.


----------



## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

johnnycake said:


> You don't know that. You're alive now, so what you did clearly worked...Better be safe than dead. Less socialization and more hunting for you, [juris] Doctor's orders.


You have to remember that I'm a grad student. It's not possible for me to get less socialization than I do now.

Back to work...


----------



## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Couldn't disagree more BP. You come from a different generation, and nothing wrong with that. In today's world, kids have evermore things to distract them, not to mention 70% or so of the U.S. population lives in urban areas away from wild place and wild things. If you don't get kids early, something else will. I say if they can pass a hunters ed class, let them hunt so long as they are supervised by an adult to a given age. What does that hurt??


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Being successful is a big part of hunting/fishing and imho cannot be over looked. I have a friend who didn't take his kids fishing and only took his kids on backcountry wasatch front bow hunts for trophy deer and elk. His kids never tasted success and worked their butts off. He never put in for cow or doe hunts. His kids now don't like hunting. It Didnt help with mom fighting him every step he took to introduce them.
> 
> I did the exact opposite and I started my kids off on pearch, blue gill, Uintah stream trout and bow fishing carp. My kids enjoyed success early and often. My wife gave me 100% support. I put my kids in for cow and doe hunts to supliment the years they don't draw a rifle tag. We even do canned pheasant hunts on pheasant farms. Even though my girls are better shots with a bow then most adult grown men I still wanted them to have a rifle tag. It gave them a long 3 weapon season and a very good chance at success. In the end in 15 years of hunting we have never eaten tag soup with any species of animals we hunt. We always catch fish even if I have to change species to get something to bite. My kids love to hunt and fish!
> 
> ...


I recently said that due to all the tags drawn this year that I want to be brisket when I grow up. Sorry brisket, I really want to be swbuckmaster.

You're doing things right, sir. This post actually gave me a ton to think about. The filled tags are cool and all, but the amount of time you spend with your daughters is awesome. Having three of my own, I need to re-evaluate how I'm doing things. Thanks for posting!


----------



## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Vanilla said:


> I recently said that due to all the tags drawn this year that I want to be brisket when I grow up. Sorry brisket, I really want to be swbuckmaster.
> 
> You're doing things right, sir. This post actually gave me a ton to think about. The filled tags are cool and all, but the amount of time you spend with your daughters is awesome. Having three of my own, I need to re-evaluate how I'm doing things. Thanks for posting!


+1!! I've been trying to model myself after the buckmaster for awhile. It's a work in progress.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

You don't know how much it means to hear people comment on me raising my kids right. To be honest I sometimes feel like a failure. I don't make a lot of money and spend most of my time away from my family in other countries. When I'm home I absolutely try and make the most of my time with my wife and kids. I don't own a truck, 4 wheeler and my car barely runs. I bought a canoe this year just so I don't have to fish the bank any more. My hunting bow is 13 years old. I have one rifle that I built for my girls. My shot gun is a 30 year old remington 870. Most of my hunting on the last 15 years has been done in a hammock. I have given my kids anything and everything better then my own stuff but I make them pay for half. I honestly sometimes sit back and think how have I been so blessed. If it weren't for family or friends I don't think I could have done it. Everytime I'm sitting in some country someone has stepped up and helped me out whether it's been loaning a shot gun, truck, wheeler, or simply taking my girls out hunting or fishing when I can't make it. There has even been a lot of help from guys right here on UWN and you may never know how much it's means to me. 

Any way got to get some sleep. I have a goose hunt in the morning where some one else picked the spot, bought the decoys, secured the property, will call the geese in ect all so I can take my girl out and spend a day with her. Actually makes me tear up thinking about it. 

Youth hunts are the best IMHO!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

I have appreciated a lot of your comments. As a father of 2 young boys, a 5 year old and a 6 month old, I spend a lot of time thinking about ways to get them involved in the outdoors.

My dad got me involved at a young age and I have loved it my whole life however, my 2 younger brothers don't have any interest at all in hunting or fishing. Some of my best memories are being with my dad on the lake or hiking through the back country. I'm sure my brothers have their own special memories with my dad but I couldn't imagine not having the ones I have. I hope I'll be able to create some of those memories with my boys.

I took up fly fishing a few years ago and I came across this article written by Eddie Robinson. For those that don't know, Eddie owns a fly shop in Orem. http://www.eddierobinsons.com/invite-them-in-without-driving-them-out-2/ This article really made me ponder about how I act during these opportunities and ways that I can change to make it more enjoyable for everyone. I'm ashamed to admit that I often find my self being like the dad/husband that Eddie described. I took his advice of "going fishing" but maybe end up doing something else entirely. I took my son up to Vivian park to fish the community pond. I gave my son the option of fishing or playing on the playground. He was 4 at the time so he obviously chose the playground. We played for 2 or 3 hours before it was time to leave. He threw a big tantrum because he only played on the playground and didn't get to go fishing. (Even though I had to get after him about throwing tantrums and whining.....I was actually pretty excited about that tantrum. I was smiling on the inside ) Now every time we drive by he always pipes up from the back seat...."remember when you took me fishing there dad?" or "Hey dad, can we go fishing by the playground again?" So even though we never actually fished, in his mind he has related that good memory spending time with his dad as "going fishing".


----------



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Utahs youth hunts are fantastic, 

Hard to believe they would even be questioned!


----------



## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Possibly the most selfish post ever. 
Poor picked on adults.
What's with the old ass adult cry baby.

I have taken kids on youth hunts for years and to watch a kid bag his first animal is priceless. I really feel sad for people that feel this way but it is nothing short of selfishness.

The hunt is the experience. Even when a hunt is unsuccessful it is the experience that we all remember.


----------



## Hunter Tom (Sep 23, 2007)

I can see a kid all excited after taking a big bull elk saying "Loved it, lets do that again Dad". Well son, we will have to wait 20+ years for another tag. I think kids should start hunting small game and deer to see if they have the desire to continue hunting- many won't. We really don't have a recruitment problem when you can't even hunt deer every year.


----------



## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

Then take them elk hunting ever year .


----------



## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. I will just say that the response to the Utah youth hunting programs has been overwhelmingly positive. 

As far as the impact it has on hunter recruitment? I think the jury is still out but I am optimistic it will help more than it will hurt.


----------



## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

BPturkeys said:


> It is my opinion that in some kind of distorted reality, introduction kids to hunting by allowing them to be the hunter at some crazy young age is somehow going to save hunting for future generations...I call BS!
> 
> Oh sure, how dare I say that. What, I don't love kids, or love hunting, or blah blah blah...not at all. There is no doubt that exposing your kids, taking your kids hunting, etc, will lead many to being hunters when they get older. But all this stuff we are doing now, in the greater picture, I think might even be counter productive, in the "we got ta save hunting" mind set of today. Here's my thoughts.
> 
> ...


So, I agree that there should not be tags set aside for youth only. I do think that there should be some special regulations for youth in some areas. (Any Deer, Season starts a couple days early, Season ends a couple days later, hunt all 3 weapons, etc)

As far as people giving up because they do not have a permit, that is BS. If you want to hunt then you can find a way to hunt. Either go out of state, switch your weapon, get into bird hunting, etc


----------

