# Pro Mexican Wolf Ralley... Your voice is needed.



## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Thought I would pass along the info. Would be nice to shut them down and support the state!

Pro-Mexican Wolf rally going on this thursday...

http://www.mexicanwolves.org/index....Conference-Rally-for-Wolves-in-Salt-Lake-City


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Hell no, just release a bunch of starving wolves in the middle of the demonstration.


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

Build a wall.:frusty:


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

They would make great target practice. :grin:


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort. 

I say this to say that Utah should do what Colorado passed today by 7-4 vote "NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group’s recommendations adopted by the Wildlife Commission in May 2005, opposes the intentional release of any wolves into Colorado, recommends that Mexican wolf recovery efforts be confined to the subspecies’ historic range, and emphasizes the importance of bi- national recovery planning with Mexico."

Mexican Wolves were never north of the Grand Canyon, I have no idea what these Jack-Holes are trying to do. They need to focus their efforts in Phoenix, Tuscon, Albuquerque, El Paso, and work with the Mexican government. There is plenty of land in Arizona and New Mexico that should be explored before they should lobby the most anti-wolf state in the union.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Oh for hell's sake! We even have to take their wolves now?! Aw, hell no! Not on my watch! O*--


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.
> 
> I say this to say that Utah should do what Colorado passed today by 7-4 vote "NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group's recommendations adopted by the Wildlife Commission in May 2005, opposes the intentional release of any wolves into Colorado, recommends that Mexican wolf recovery efforts be confined to the subspecies' historic range, and emphasizes the importance of bi- national recovery planning with Mexico."
> 
> Mexican Wolves were never north of the Grand Canyon, I have no idea what these Jack-Holes are trying to do. They need to focus their efforts in Phoenix, Tuscon, Albuquerque, El Paso, and work with the Mexican government. There is plenty of land in Arizona and New Mexico that should be explored before they should lobby the most anti-wolf state in the union.


As a resident of NM I'll say your above statements sound good until it's your own state. Anyone who lives with this can tell you it has had a negative impact. Ask the people who live in "wolf territory" and how they like the cages built to protect their kids at bus stops because wolves began to stalk them as they waited for the school us.

Curses to the wolf introduction program. Trust me, we're more anti-wolf than you think.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm all fine for being pro Mexican but I submit that allowing wolves to rally is a bad idea.----SS


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.
> 
> Would you also be for expanding AIDS in it's obvious home range of Southern California?
> We need wolves in our forests like we need quaga mussels in our lakes


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Snap Redleg, the AIDS analogy is harsh, brash, and rude.......I like it! -------SS


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

redleg said:


> MuscleWhitefish said:
> 
> 
> > I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.
> ...


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

What make you so entitled to hunt anything. 

You want a landscape that is "natural" like Mother Nature intended. Then you're not going to be part of it. Mother Nature didn't account for umpteen million human hunters. It's a no sum game. A critter killed by a predator is a critter not available for harvest by a hunter. 

Pro wolf is anti hunting plain and simple.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

What is known about their historical range?

From what I understand, they reached the southern part of Utah but didn't venture much past that point. 

The reason I ask is because I am curious what impact that could have on Utah as a whole?

The Yellowstone "re"-introduction (notice the way I spelled that) ended up being a different breed of wolf than what historically roamed that area and now we have quite a predicament with that situation. 

I am curious if allowing the Mexican wolf to expand to its original territories is or is not a bad idea?

As man, we know better than nature does so it would be interesting to know what man's thoughts are on the topic.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> redleg said:
> 
> 
> > As far as having to build fences around cities or schools in New Mexico. That is funny to me, because since 1900 there have been only 9 fatal wolf attacks (2 captive, 2 rabies, and 5 others) and of the 32 non fatal wolf attacks since 1900 only one has happened south of the Grand Canyon and that was in 1919. New Mexico has never had a documented wolf attack.
> ...


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

What about Mexican coyotes? They are always hopping the border and cause more of a financial drain to America than a wolf ever will :mrgreen:


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Iron Bear said:


> What make you so entitled to hunt anything.
> 
> You want a landscape that is "natural" like Mother Nature intended. Then you're not going to be part of it. Mother Nature didn't account for umpteen million human hunters. It's a no sum game. A critter killed by a predator is a critter not available for harvest by a hunter.
> 
> Pro wolf is anti hunting plain and simple.


IB long time. Glad to see you are still alive and kickin'.

Pro wolf is not an anti hunting plan. It is a hunting plan for wolves.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

High Desert Elk said:


> MuscleWhitefish said:
> 
> 
> > What's funny is you didn't read my post - never said fences were being built around cities or schools, just the bus stops. I don't believe you're aware at just how rural southwest NM really is. That is true ranching country, not like some of the "hobby" properties we're all familiar with.
> ...


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Maybe you can make anti-wolf arguments on various grounds, but human safety? Car and Deer Collisions Cause 200 Deaths and Cost $4 Billion a Year. By the logic of "whose child has to die for the wolf" we'd be farming wolves to keep the deer down. 

It's a hard world out there and there's lots of people. Something eventually gets us all.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Bax* said:


> What is known about their historical range?
> 
> From what I understand, they reached the southern part of Utah but didn't venture much past that point.
> 
> ...


Not sure about their historical range but the species does seem to be weak and probably will die off naturally without man made intervention, like 99.999% of the extinct species that once inhabited our rock.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> High Desert Elk said:
> 
> 
> > I took cages for fences, but I guess they are not the same thing.
> ...


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I can only imagine what a pack of them would do to a flock of sheep. 
Even the cattle would be in trouble. 
The ranchers have enough issues to battle. 
I'm talking the ones on private land, not the ones on public ground.


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

They might help with the wild horse population if the take a liking to horse meat.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)




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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

OK, I'll bite.

1995 - reintroduce 26 wolves to Wyoming
1995 - Wyoming elk harvest 17,695

2012 - number of wolves in WY according to anti-wolfers = thousands, perhaps millions
2012 - number of wolves in WY according to the Game & Fish and the UWS = 329
2012 - Wyoming elk harvest 26,365, a record

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014/03/26/wyoming-has-a-near-record-elk-hunt/

I elk hunt where there's wolves....so do a lot of outfitters. It's pretty good hunting. I'm thinking we must have the vegetarian sub species of Gray Wolf.

Mexican Wolves on the other hand are prolly meat-eaters.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Elk numbers in Wyoming and Montana are up after wolf reintroduction, but down dramatically in Idaho. That makes sense I guess. After the wolves ate all the elk in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem they moved to Idaho...with the exception of the omnivorous wolf species that howl all friggin night where I hunt.

Anyway, who's going to the rally? It looks like fun. 

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> Elk numbers in Wyoming and Montana are up after wolf reintroduction, but down dramatically in Idaho. That makes sense I guess. After the wolves ate all the elk in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem they moved to Idaho...with the exception of the omnivorous wolf species that howl all friggin' night where I elk hunt.
> 
> Anyway, who's going to the rally? It looks like fun.
> 
> .


Darnit, the rally was last week.

Who went to the rally?

What camo pattern did you wear?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

The much heralded Mexican Wolf Rally was held last Thursday on the steps of State Capitol building without incident.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=38127954&n...-utah-to-save-mexican-gray-wolf&s_cid=queue-8


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> OK, I'll bite.
> 
> 1995 - reintroduce 26 wolves to Wyoming
> 1995 - Wyoming elk harvest 17,695
> ...


I'm just curious if you have the WY numbers year by year over the period and through 2014. I have heard that in some areas of Idaho the counts are way down on elk but overall does anyone have the numbers for Idaho state wide instead of just one or two specific areas?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> I'm just curious if you have the WY numbers year by year over the period and through 2014. I have heard that in some areas of Idaho the counts are way down on elk but overall does anyone have the numbers for Idaho state wide instead of just one or two specific areas?


I know you have a browser, but no search engine? They're free. If you can't figure out how to get a search engine let me know and either Lonetree or I will walk you thru it. Need yer snow shoveled? Wash n wax your truck perhaps? 

2014 - 25,905
2011 - 23,189 42% success



see: https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Hunting/Harvest-Reports/

Wyoming's success rate for elk since the wolf introduction runs 39% to 45%.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's my take:

Putting Mexican wolves in southern Utah is dumb. Putting Gray Wolves in southern Utah, not so dumb.

It's not complicated. Elk were way above carrying capacity in Yellowstone NP and the wintering grounds around Yellowstone NP. The reintroduced wolves took care of that; did what they were put there for. The wolves did some damage around the perimeter of the Park too; by design really on the south side of the Park. For economic reasons as much as anything they wanted to curtail the numbers of elk on the National Elk Feedground in Jackson Hole. That worked well, maybe too well at first. But now the wintering elk herd numbers have increased to a "manageable level. However the wolves put a dent in elk herd in hunt areas on the east side of the Park. And to hear the outfitters over there complain it was awful....although I think all of them have always advertised a 100% success rate on their elk hunts since the wolf introduction. 

The Game & Fish claims, and I seen it first hand, that the wolves did some damage to game herds in the Wyoming Range and up on the Wind Rivers. Is that bad? Depends on how you look at it I guess. Most of the elk hunt areas in the Wyoming Range and the Winds were over capacity even as the wolf pack increased and the wolves spread out from Yellowstone taking some elk, moose and livestock along the way. But the elk hunting success rates didn't change much though.

Originally I was against wolf introduction, peer pressure mostly. Now I'm cool with it. If I was a livestock producer I might think differently.

.


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