# This should get interesting



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

http://m.heraldextra.com/news/local...5f89-b31d-011ff7e7727a.html?mobile_touch=true

It sounds like there were a few stupid tards poaching with an extended liscense or wasatch tag or the home owner's are flat out liars about seeing hunters in their yards. I guess either is possible because ive personally seen tard extended hunters chasing deer on suncrest ten years after that area was shut down to hunting.


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## Rattler (Jul 13, 2014)

People love to have deer in their until:
A) they put in a few thousand dollars of landscaping and the deer eat it all in one night
B) they hit a deer with their car
Once their pocket books are affected, they then want most of the deer removed. I grew up out east and this was constantly happening.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

" Hunters could not cull the deer until 30 minutes after sunset and had to stop 30 minutes before sunrise." 

Do the hunters use spotlights for this night hunt?


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I asked to be on the Hunting Team and wasn't given the time of day. I was told I have to be a really good shot with a bow.

I think this was a big ploy to allow certain people a chance at hunting City Bucks and Does surrounded by the excuse of management.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Fowlmouth I saw that as well. I think its a misprint. Or at least I hope it was.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

If they are hunting at night and only a selected "TEAM" is used for the hunting, then I tend to agree with Broadside_Shot about this hunt being set aside for an elite few with the excuse of management. I wonder how many people are on the "TEAM" to kill 74 deer. If it's a handful of elitist do gooders then that is bull f'n $hit.


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## archerben (Sep 14, 2007)

> If they are hunting at night and only a selected "TEAM" is used for the hunting, then I tend to agree with Broadside_Shot about this hunt being set aside for an elite few with the excuse of management. I wonder how many people are on the "TEAM" to kill 74 deer. If it's a handful of elitist do gooders then that is bull f'n $hit.


 It is true that these hunters were required to pass a shooting test proving excellent archery marksmanship skills. Considering that this is a depredation hunt with the sole purpose of thinning an urban deer population, restrictions such as these are necessary, warranted, and similar to how these types of hunts are conducted back east.

That said, I share your concern of how the hunters were selected. If there are hunters that feel they were unfairly discriminated against (ie. not allowed the opportunity to qualify, failed for personal reasons, etc.), please contact me with details. If this turns out to be the case, I'd be happy to discuss this with the DWR and see that it gets resolved.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Its asinine how this was setup and handled. Why not allow Crossbows? Its about silent killing, crossbows should be allowed. Oh yea, the guy who has to approve you only sells bows. Got it.


-DallanC


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Aside from the crossbow thing (I think that it runs afoul of Utah State Code and that is why they couldn't be used) I think this program is quite smart. And Broadside, I don't think you read very carefully what deer could be shot if you applied. It was extremely clear this was a doe only cull program--no chance to shoot a city buck. I'm not sure how the hours of the hunt operate, or if they use spotlights or not. I will say this, there is sufficient lighting in most of these parks that with a good moon, there should be no problem to shoot a bow without a spotlight.

And as for Mr. Fisher in Bull River (I grew up in the area and know him personally) he is a rabid anti-hunter and I doubt that he has seen anyone in his neighborhood trying to pass themselves off as part of this program. There was a lady last year who raised a similar stink about the program, and likewise her claim of having run into someone on her property was unsubstantiated. That being said, I admit it is completely possible that some morons do try to hunt in there in ignorance of how the program works.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> Aside from the crossbow thing (I think that it runs afoul of Utah State Code and that is why they couldn't be used)


Of course not. People use crossbows NOW during the general archery hunts, with a medical release.

-DallanC


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## OKEE (Jan 3, 2008)

1) All that ground venison donated to the shelter. What a waste of some good venison stakes.
2) I bet it was tuff following all those blood trails at night.
3)Does anyone have Brian cooks number ? I would like to make him my new best friend.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I can see why rules were set and had to be strictly followed on the program. As far as im aware its the first program we've had in utah and it needs to be a total success from the start or we will never see it again.

I honestly dont know how some of these idiots think they can hunt in highland if there not part of the program. I have had arguments with guys that were actually planning on going out to shoot does because they heard from someone there was a doe hunt going on in highland. Does anyone read a proclamation before they hunt?


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

I was at the selection shoot one night and out of 30 "expert archers" as they claimed, I saw one qualify. And bull river isn't even part of the area. So those people are flat out lying. The city council wanted this hunt and got it. All because deer ate a council members landscaping. It's here to stay and will probably spread into other local cities.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Seems to have very strict rules and a qualification process.

I just feel bad for that poor guy in his private neighborhood full of mature trees hidden from view... I would hate for him to hit a deer in his fancy pants rear wheel drive car.

The poor children being exposed to deer being killed in their upper class NO TRESPASSING private street, what a terror. I think for their safety, we should take the 5000 pounds of meet from those men women and children living on the street. 



Sillyness/hard truth aside, under the pro's section they responded very well. Without it being brought up, they addressed pregnant does, property damage, low cost, qualifications, and many references to the program. They also stressed to call the police if you see a hunter in your yard. So, let that neighborhood ban hunting, but as far as the rest of highland, you don't own it!!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Let me ask this again please. How many archers were selected to be on the "TEAM"? The article said 74 deer were harvested. Was it 5 or 6 guys shooting all these deer? Anyone know? If it's just a handful of elitists I would rather see the deer killed and controlled by the DWR.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Ten guys I believe took all the deer


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

Johnny, When I was talking about being part of the team it was in the preliminary stages of planning years ago.

And Yes Bucks and Does were part of the initial plan. It was promoting shooting problem/nuisance deer. Archers were not going to be able to pick and choose what sex they shot. I was going to be random and supervised.

I lost interest before the first hunt ever started. It probably evolved to does only later but I was not involved and didn't follow it anymore.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

The requirements for this hunt, to be on the "A TEAM" were not worth the time and energy. They have set times to hunt, if you couldnt fill your spot, you have to find a replacement. It was more like work than hunting. Be glad that your not involved. Would you rather be killing does in the city park, or bucks, bulls, ducks, geese, antelope.......and so on in the wild? I will take the wild hunt.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

That makes sense Broadside.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> Let me ask this again please. How many archers were selected to be on the "TEAM"? The article said 74 deer were harvested. Was it 5 or 6 guys shooting all these deer? Anyone know? If it's just a handful of elitists I would rather see the deer killed and controlled by the DWR.


In some ways I agree with you. I would be affraid of some kind of hidden selection process to get on one of those tree stands. If it was done out in the open and everyone shows up and the best ten shooters were selected then im fine with it.

I can see if you own property in highland and want to remove all the deer of your land you may get upset you cant take deer off your property because you cant shoot good enough. However I think all the deer stands were put on city property. Again I could be wrong.

In a pilot project that could effect the way things are managed from hear on out I dont think any old gut shooters should be allowed to participate. Lets face it there are some guys I see who shoot at the local range that have no buisness bowhunting anywhere let alone on a pilot project.


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

The qual process was pretty rigorous. Being a controversial hunt there wasn't room for error. So they had to qualify at pretty much 100% under tough conditions. Some of the guys I saw shoot hadn't shot since the 80's it looked like. Or the young team Hoyt, wasatch boys, that had all the gear but couldn't hit a pie plate at 20 yards 2/10 times. 

I believe there were 10 people selected.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

To tell you the truth if i cant shoot a doe and eat it myself I dont want to waste my time with a program like that.


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

I know some of the guys took at least one deer. They had to pay to process it or the city would pay if they donated it.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I think this pilot program is important enough that we as hunters should be at the City Council meeting defending it instead of griping we didnt get a tree stand. It's our money that has to pay for the damage these deer do. As cities encroach into the hills and deers habitat we will find ourself losing our hunting rights. Archery is a great way to manage the city dear. If the program is a success we all may benefit on future programs.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

koltraynor said:


> I know some of the guys took at least one deer. They had to pay to process it or the city would pay if they donated it.


What if I do my own processing


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## GBell (Sep 2, 2013)

Selection process?? Team??

Bwahaaa!!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Sw, I agree that we as hunters should be at the council meetings to support this. 

And DallanC, on the crossbow issue. Yes, with a Dr's note you can use a crossbow--that is part of the law outlawing crossbows. I would be willing to be serious money that someone with said note who wanted to attempt to qualify for this program would HAVE to be allowed to participate in conformity with the state regulations as well as the 14th amendment. The use of a crossbow during archery hunts (I believe it was recently passed allowing the use of them during the any weapon hunt now, but I'm not positive) is allowed in order to avoid a 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause. But hey, I'm just a lowly law student who clearly is unable to see why allowing crossbows for a specific class is a de facto opening to the use of crossbows by a distinctly different class in a different subset of the activity....


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

swbuckmaster said:


> What if I do my own processing


You can probably have as many as you want. Not sure on that though. I also agree we need to be at these meetings. The anti's are and they seem to be the most vocal.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

The way that I understand this depredation hunt, all of the meat was to be donated. And one of the stipulations was that you wouldn't shoot if there was a chance that the deer would be able to run into someone's back yard to die. It had to be DRT. Also, you weren't to be seen by anyone. This was to be a super stealth operation. Not an easy chore with all of the activity in the parks and trails where this hunt was occurring. I don't think this was what any of us would like our hunt to be. Not much of a chance to sit back and be part of nature. Just a hurry and shoot it and hope momma and the junior joggers don't bust you while you stuff Bambi's mom in the back of your truck. 
My choice of arms for this exercise wouldn't be a bow at all. My boss at the gun store has a sweet H&R Topper in 357. 16" barrel and a silencer. Shoot subsonic 38's and all you hear is the bullet hitting the target.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

Johnnycake, 

What does the "14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause" have to do with crossbows? So can I use my 50 cal machine gun to hunt elk? There are restrictions for a reason. Why the crossbow? I dont know nor do I care. But that is the way it is set, just deal with it. If you want to use a crossbow, then go get a note and I bet they let you.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

The problem with the gun over archery is ricochet bullets.


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

I remember when this was being talked about in the newspapers a big concern was kids finding an arrow in the playground. Lol.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

The kids finding arrows on the playground isnt near as bad as my kids finding needles and drugs on the playground the other day.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Or they could just release a few elitist cougar and let them do the killing. Or not trap and remove the ones that move in. 

I have no problem with this program. It can't be anymore tricky then becoming a state trapper. Heck those guys get paid. I don't think anyone considers them elitist.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I can see a problem with finding arrows on a playground. My neighbor used to think it was ok to shoot in the park by my house. It has a baseball back stop but its not a base ball park. I would tell him it was illegal and he was asking for a ticket. He said he always shot there. Then I saw him shooting broadheads one day and saw him loose two in ten minutes. This time I had to explain to him what happens if a kid or dog steps on one it would make all us bow hunters look bad. I spent an hour looking for those arrows and still have no idea where they went.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> The problem with the gun over archery is ricochet bullets.


If you are shooting from an elevated stand, and choose your backstop wisely, there is no issue with ricochets. The same reason they are shooting their bows from elevated stands. And the chances of someone cutting themselves on a spent bullet are minimal compared to a misplaced broadhead.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Who supplies their arrows and broadheads? Who cleans the deer and hauls them away for processing?

"Highland chose a different route, deciding instead to harvest 60 urban deer, deer who never returned to the mountains after winter but instead stayed in the city year-round."

So if Highland decided on 60 deer to be culled, why then did 74 get harvested?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Hunters supply their own equipment. Im guessing they take the doe away to get cleaned.


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

Yep no cleaning at the kill site. City has some property at the mouth of AF canyon. I'm guessing that's where they were dressed. Just guessing though. I do know Brian and he's as honest as they come. I wouldn't want to be a business owner and have this project.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

> Johnnycake,
> 
> What does the "14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause" have to do with crossbows? So can I use my 50 cal machine gun to hunt elk? There are restrictions for a reason. Why the crossbow? I dont know nor do I care. But that is the way it is set, just deal with it. If you want to use a crossbow, then go get a note and I bet they let you.


If you really want to get into it there are thousands of pages of court precedent justifying various exceptions to rules to better accommodate the disabled that I'd be happy to give you references to. People with disabilities are a protected class and are allowed to have the same rights and protections as any other citizen. So the way our state legislature has it, without an exception to the crossbow ban, handicapped individuals would be unable to participate in archery seasons--and that runs afoul of the 14th amendment. You might not agree with the logic, but various courts have upheld that reasoning enough that any dispute towards it will be dismissed without review.

Having never tried to get a crossbow exemption, I don't know how hard it is, but I'd bet you need a real reason--same as getting a handicapped parking pass.


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

Ksl did a hit piece on this as well last night. You would think they would check their facts.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Interesting, I just was looking over the Utah upland hunting regs and saw crossbows are completely legal weapons to hunt with:



> 50 CFR 20.21, Utah Code § 23-20-3 and Utah Admin. Rule R657-
> 6-6, R657-6-7 and R657-54-4


Cool.

-DallanC


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30988098&ni...-yielded-33k-meals-for-homeless&s_cid=queue-2

WOW! only 6 hunters in this program.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Fowlmouth serious question. Do you honestly think for a pilot program with very few stand locations to use it would be wise to let the general public have at it? In all seriousness it sounds like the general publick couldn't hit a pie plate at 20 yards in their screening processes. 

You forgot to mention the good the program provided. 33k in meals. Does doing dammage taken out. Not one report of dead or wounded deer running arround. Sounds like a success if you ask me!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> Fowlmouth serious question. Do you honestly think for a pilot program with very few stand locations to use it would be wise to let the general public have at it? NOPE! In all seriousness it sounds like the general publick couldn't hit a pie plate at 20 yards in their screening processes. YEP
> 
> You forgot to mention the good the program provided. 33k in meals. Does doing dammage taken out. Not one report of dead or wounded deer running arround. Sounds like a success if you ask me!


 That's why I said WOW! 6 guys did some damage with some good results. Impressive actually......


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

After reading more information about the program it makes a lot more sense as to how the DWR is handling this hunt. It seems to be working and they have some excellent shooters taking care of the problem. There is no way it would work as well with a bunch of amateur shooters wounding and losing deer in yards. I wouldn't want to be one of the shooters for this hunt....Too much pressure.


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