# What you using?



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

After 74 years I finally decided to take up fly fishing. It's mostly new to me... the equipment, the techniques, the ethics, the whole darn experience called "fly fishing". 
I have heard many stories about how guarded many fly fisherman are about their favored fly's and secret methods to use them. How many fly fisherman are snobbish and competitive.
Well, couple days ago up on the Provo, after pounding the water bloody for a couple hours and deciding to go home a beaten man, I stopped and watched a guy named Charlie casually land a nice little Brownie(I have learned a couple things like what you call the fish...Brownies, Cutties, etc). So, the natural talker that I am, led me to approached this fly fisherman and ask the dreaded question..."what you using". As I stood there wondering what to expect, Charlie stands up, after releasing the fish, smiles and said "Scuds, let me show you". So for the next 20 minutes Charlie showed me his rig, showed me his hand tied flies and in the end gave me a half dozen of his favorite Scud patterns. 
I am thinkin that their are lots of Charlies out there...thanks.


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## Roboz (May 30, 2018)

I started fly fishing when i was probably 16 years old, nobody in my family fly fished so it took me forever to learn the techniques and what to use and when. It wasn't until i was in my thirty's that it all came together for me and that was from meeting a new guy at work who was a great fisherman, he would take me out everyday after work and on the weekends, sometimes he wouldn't even fish but just watch me and show me the ropes. So not every fly fisherman is a snob, i have gotten into bass fishing lately and haven't picked up a fly rod in 2 years, i walk past it everyday and think...i should get that back out for a weekend. Good luck to you and have fun it is a blast!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Fly rods were put into my hands probably as early or maybe even earlier than spinning rods were....though we used them to bait fish on streams rather than fly fish. So, the natural next step was learning to fly fish. My fly fishing passion, though, really took off after I graduated from high school in 1991. Now, I do more fly fishing than anything else.

My go to fly is always going to be a wooly bugger. I fish them aggressively and enjoy casting and stripping probably more than any other technique. Check out this documentary:
http://www.lowandclear.com/
It really details the two types of fly fisherman well--the one who is all about technique and aesthetics and the one who just wants to catch lots of fish. I am the second type--not a great caster, not really wrapped up in the gear or the aesthetics, I just like catching fish!

The biggest advice I can give you is to get your fly in the water!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> (I have learned a couple things like what you call the fish...Brownies, Cutties, etc).


A couple years ago me and my wife were in Zion (Jaunuary) looking at bighorn sheep. Another gentlemen was there photographing them, and asked where we were from. I replied "Cedar City". He replied back and said "you must be a transplant. Folks from there just call it 'Cedar'". He was from Washington County, and he knew everything. Ugh.

I've lived in Cedar City since I was 2 years old. Nobody ever informed me that i wasn't supposed to call it "Cedar City".

I've been fly fishing for a long time. I call cutthroat trout "cutthroat trout" "cutthroat", or "cutts", and I call brown trout "brown trout". I'm not sure I've ever called a brown trout a "brownie". A brownie is something you eat with milk (not melk). I never realized that I was supposed to call a fish a brownie, or a cuttie. Good to know. Apparently I've been doing it wrong for a long time.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> I've been fly fishing for a long time. I call cutthroat trout "cutthroat trout" "cutthroat", or "cutts", and I call brown trout "brown trout". I'm not sure I've ever called a brown trout a "brownie". A brownie is something you eat with milk (not melk). I never realized that I was supposed to call a fish a brownie, or a cuttie. Good to know. Apparently I've been doing it wrong for a long time.


Yeah, but your dad is a fisheries biologist. You probably got paddled when you were a kid if you called the fish you just caught a "brownie".


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

well...maybe paddled for calling a cutt a rainbow, or mistaking a splake for a brook trout.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

No, it would have been worse had we called a cutt a brook. Misnaming a trout for something with the opposite spotting pattern was much worse. Calling a dark spotted fish one with light spots was no-no. My boys are learning this same lesson already!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I never said I was new to fishing, only new to "Fly fishing". I had never heard Browns called "Brownies" or Cutthroats called "Cutties (heck we always just called them "natives" or once in a while Cutthroats) until I started reading about fly fishing or watching Flyfishin videos on Youtube. We did call Brook Trout "Brookies" and never really felt we where compromising our manhood although. I think as long as we don't call trout "cutie pies" we'll probably be OK.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

wyoming2utah said:


> No, it would have been worse had we called a cutt a brook. Misnaming a trout for something with the opposite spotting pattern was much worse. Calling a dark spotted fish one with light spots was no-no. My boys are learning this same lesson already!


How old were you when you learned the difference between a Bonneville and a Colorado River cutt? Was it included in your ABC flashcards when you guys learned the alphabet?


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I use a Hyde Drift Boat Low Pro. I row and the wife fishes. I'll ask her !!! LOL.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> How old were you when you learned the difference between a Bonneville and a Colorado River cutt? Was it included in your ABC flashcards when you guys learned the alphabet?


I know I wasn't very old (8?) when we were up on the Pine Valley wilderness collecting Bonneville Cutthroat to transplant to another stream on the east side of the Pine Valley (Browse Creek) when I asked my dad "how did Bonneville cutthroat end up on the Pine Valley's when they are in the Colorado River drainage?".

Turns out, that was a very good question.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The "go to" set up really depends on the river. When I fished the Provo river a lot, my go-to was an elk hair caddis with a pheasant tail dropper. My favorite fly rod for the Provo is my 8 1/2 foot, medium action, 5 weight. Other great flies for the Provo are parachute adams, royal wulff, griffeths gnat for the top, and scuds, chamois/buckskin caddis, pheasant tail, and hare's ear for the bottom or hung as droppers. Woolly buggers are also great - black or olive with a beadhead. 

As for "lots of Charlies" out there - the only jack-hole fly fishermen I've come across have been on the Provo. Usually guys in 20s or early 30s, and act like they own the place. I prefer fishing with the older guys now anyway. I've swapped more flies and suggestions and just great conversation with older guys on rivers than I could count. So yea, there are lots of great guys out there. Though one time I was fishing the Beaverhead, south of Dillon and ended up fishing with a bunch of early 20 guys that were instructors at the Air Force Academy, and on break. Great group of young men. We fished together, and all caught fish. It was a good day fishing with good guys.

As for proper names, where I fish these day, cutthroat are simply "natives." Old timers will call them German Browns, younger guys just browns. Similarly, to Old Timers and locals, it is the North Fork. But to younger guys and transplants, it is the Henry's Fork. To me, the ones you should be cautions of are the ones that refer to oars for their canoes or mention that they have a fly pole. Those are the guys you avoid.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

For nymphs I used sow bugs and midge patterns most of the time, and occasionally used a caddis pattern and hares ears. I preferred adams, griffeths gnats, and quill gordons for drys. All in sizes 16-22 with size 18 being most common. 

If you want some flys, shoot me a pm and I'll send you some. I almost never get on trout waters here in AL.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

I'm self-taught and probably quite unorthodox, so be warned. I do everything "wrong" I'm sure.

I learned on a 9ft 5wt, throwing sinking line. My first tapered leader lasted about 20 minutes and I've been pure 4-6lb mono leader since.

The sinking line was mostly for my tube, so I could drag buggers on still water. It was a beast to cast from shore, but in retrospect, I believe it helped me to refine my stroke. Once I started using floating line, my presentations were way better looking and I was able to come closer to my target, spending less time in the foliage.

Nowadays, I still have no idea what I'm doing, and still prefer spin gear for most applications, but my fly rod is now another effective tool in my arsenal.

Go-to bugs are big streamers and a variety of nymphs:

Streamers:

Sportsman's Warehouse sells a few good streamers that I'm a fan of. I like the cone-head sculpin patterns in any color, but especially the olive and the black. Ginger is also pretty good.

They have another similar streamer, but it's brown with a flash of red and a strip of bunny, I think, plus some rubber legs. It's an abomination, but I've found a lot of success with it. Can't remember what it's called. Gold cone, brownish body with some red, some glittery crap, and rubber legs. Great streamer.

When I want some real high quality streamers, I'll go to Fly Fish Food and pickup some *Sculpinators* and, my favorite, the *Frankenstein Sculpin*.

Excellent work on those and my largest trout to date (7lb, 10oz tiger @ 27") ate a Sculpinator.

Nymphs:

I have some favorite nymphs that are almost always good. Sportsman's Warehouse is good for a few patterns that are pretty inexpensive:

*Ice cream cone* - this thing works everywhere, almost any time of year.

*Chrinomid* (black wire with white gills out the sides by the eyelet and at the bend of the shank) - This one's a winner with picky fish, such as the large tigers out east...delicate presentation, slow sink, and mimics a few natural forage bugs.

*Killer Caddis* - Red, Green, or Orange. These have plastic beads throughout the body and sink slower than steel or tungsten beaded nymphs. They work well almost anywhere, and can open a stubborn mouth when other bugs aren't producing.

Copper Johns, brassies, and prince nymphs all have a spot on my fly boxes too. Those are almost always productive for anything, especially grayling.

From Fly Fish Food, there are some really nice nymphs that Egan ties. I love the little purple BH nymphs with rubber legs. They're amazing. They cost a lot, but I really do well with them.

They've also got some sleek chironomid type nymphs with a clear cure finish. Those have been good to me as well.

Chapter 2:

Just kidding, I'm done. Sorry for the novel.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

LOAH said:


> I'm self-taught and probably quite unorthodox, so be warned. I do everything "wrong" I'm sure.
> 
> I learned on a 9ft 5wt, throwing sinking line. My first tapered leader lasted about 20 minutes and I've been pure 4-6lb mono leader since.


I'm unorthodox too...I never use tapered leaders. In fact, I'm more of an 8lb. mono guy and will use up to 17 lb. mono depending on the circumstances.

I also will very rarely allow flies to dead drift and enjoy stripping streamers and sometimes even dry flies upstream against the current to trigger strikes.

I'm all about catching fish...so, whatever works!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I can only find two things that you are doing wrong in your post:

A. ...still prefer spin gear for most applications. :neutral:

B. purchasing flies.


I still use a 9ft 5wt. I never use tapered leaders (like you, i just use standard mono). Buggers are a staple. 


Start tying your own flies. Streamers and nymphs are not hard. You'll find much enjoyment (and frustration!) tying your own. And it so much more satisfying catching fish with that fly you tied the night before! You'll find that you stop using your "favorite" flies, because you want to try that "new" fly you tied up. Best of all, you get to make up the names just like those box stores do! "Sculpinator" now becomes "Christmas ornament", and "Frankenstein Sculpinator" becomes "broken Christmas ornament" -- or, maybe it just becomes a zonker? No more "ice cream cones", but rather a "chironomid" (weird, I know). My personal favorite is still my "Prom Date".


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Getting back to the nick names for fish, I remember my dad telling me about the "old timers"...I think he was referring to early 1900's, that would catch "speckled trout" from Utah Lake. I am guessing they meant "Cutties". Speckled Trout, I kind of like that name.

OK, I googled "Speckled Trout" and I came up with some Seatrout" of something, but I am pretty sure those old timers down in Provo were't thinking the fish in Utah Lake were Seatrout.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> Getting back to the nick names for fish, I remember my dad telling me about the "old timers"...I think he was referring to early 1900's, that would catch "speckled trout" from Utah Lake. I am guessing they meant "Cutties". Speckled Trout, I kind of like that name.
> 
> OK, I googled "Speckled Trout" and I came up with some Seatrout" of something, but I am pretty sure those old timers down in Provo were't thinking the fish in Utah Lake were Seatrout.


Speckled trout is what a lot of people out east and in Canada call brookies


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Local names for fish and other wildlife is interesting. I am sure the "Speckled Trout" the Utah Valley locals were referring to were Cutthroat Trout. As a kid we just just called them "natives". So, we had "Cutthroats" AKA "Natives", Rainbows, always called them Rainbows, German Browns, we always called them Browns, and we had Brook Trout, called "Brookies".


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

It is well that science decided long ago to set up formal rules for naming stuff. Depending on local "nomenclature" would certainly be a fiasco in accurate description. 

As an example, here on the Utah oriented fishing interweb, this would be what several species are named. 

Striped bass=stripper
Green sunfish=bluegill
striped bass x white bass hybrid=whipper
25% of all cutts caught at Strawberry=rainbows


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I used to say that if I was forced to only use one fly for the rest of my life, no matter what type of water or area of the land I was fishing, that it would be a olive green seal bugger. 

I’m trying to convince myself that young Vanilla was just not seasoned enough to make an important decision like that. Yet I still find my self saying an olive green seal bugger.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> I used to say that if I was forced to only use one fly for the rest of my life, no matter what type of water or area of the land I was fishing, that it would be a olive green seal bugger.
> 
> I'm trying to convince myself that young Vanilla was just not seasoned enough to make an important decision like that. Yet I still find my self saying an olive green seal bugger.


That is a really good one. I've caught a lot of fish with that. Young Nilla may have been wiser than he thought.

I guess I'm more of a degenerate and would put a set of "Pistol Pete" blades on the front of the fly for even more efficacy (as my only fly). But then would it still be a fly? -Ov-


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Most fly fishers out on the river are pretty nice. They do get a little territorial. I've seen 'em on a mad dash trying to get to the honey hole before the next guy. There are guys out there that will keep a pattern secret for a while (sometimes a long while) and there are guys who feel like their special flies have fish catching properties that other flies don't. There are guys who try to sell fly fishing and fly tying as equal in education and technique as rocket science and brain surgery. There are some real ego maniacs for sure who want to sell themselves. But for the most part it's just like any other aspect of life: different personalities. 

From my perspective and experience it's pretty hard to fish a fly and not catch fish if presentation is somewhat solid. I've fished next to guys nailing trout using a different fly than me. They keep begging me to change and I decline. Then after some time, I start catching and their fly dwindles. John Gierach once wrote that if you fish the wrong fly long enough it eventually becomes the right fly. I sometimes try to tie a fly that won't catch fish just to see if it's possible.

Last year, I fished with a friend at the very dead end of the large stonefly hatch. In fact, we missed the hatch. I saw two adult stones all day. He nailed fish on a #18 parachute Adams and I nailed them on a large #6 stonefly dry. 

Lots of hype out there. Just toss bugs. Part of the fun is seeing what works and what doesn't for sure.

I would imagine you could catch fish in almost any Utah river with a scud.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Catherder said:


> ...
> 
> I guess I'm more of a degenerate and would put a set of "Pistol Pete" blades on the front of the fly for even more efficacy (as my only fly). But then would it still be a fly? -Ov-


OK, that brings up another dilemma for a rookie fly fisherman...is it really a "fly" and are you really "flyfishing" when you use stuff like "egg patterns" and "Squiggly wiggly", or even patterns that simulate minnows? Some of the stuff admittedly is a copy or facsimile of a real bug, or at least looks kind of like a bug. Or is the "method" i.e. the casting, floating along the suface...is that what makes it fly fishing.
You know, I don't want to tell my friends I been flyfishing when in reality I was just plain old fashioned bait fishing with bait that don't smell, wiggle, or come in a bottle.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Catherder said:


> ...
> 
> I guess I'm more of a degenerate and would put a set of "Pistol Pete" blades on the front of the fly for even more efficacy (as my only fly). But then would it still be a fly? -Ov-


OK, that brings up another dilemma for a rookie fly fisherman...is it really a "fly" and are you really "flyfishing" when you use stuff like "egg patterns" and "Squiggly wiggly", or even patterns that simulate minnows? Some of the stuff admittedly is a copy or facsimile of a real bug, or at least looks kind of like a bug. Or is the "method" i.e. the casting, floating along the suface, etc...is that what makes it fly fishing.
You know, I don't want to tell my friends I been flyfishing when in reality I was just plain old fashioned bait fishing with bait that don't smell, wiggle, or come in a bottle.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> As an example, here on the Utah oriented fishing interweb, this would be what several species are named.
> 
> Striped bass=stripper
> Green sunfish=bluegill
> ...


Another 25% of all cutts caught at Strawberry = cuttbows.

Wait. Errr.....uh. Hmmm. Yep -- it's a cuttbow!



Catherder said:


> I guess I'm more of a degenerate and would put a set of "Pistol Pete" blades on the front of the fly for even more efficacy (as my only fly). But then would it still be a fly? -Ov-


we have a button for "Like" -- where is the button for "Hate"?


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> OK, that brings up another dilemma for a rookie fly fisherman...is it really a "fly" and are you really "flyfishing" when you use stuff like "egg patterns" and "Squiggly wiggly", or even patterns that simulate minnows?


Yes! If they are artificial. Egg patterns, flesh flies, san juan worms, are still tied using materials just like other "flies". Further, the method and equipment used to fish are the same as other "flies". So, why wouldn't it be "fly fishing"?

That's not to say that it is taboo to tie a #6 bait hook on the end of your tapered leader with a split-shot 12" above it, then thread a juicy nightcrawler on that hook and dead-drift it through a nice hole or run on the stream using your 9ft 5wt "fly" rod. Many of us learned to fish using nothing more than live bait (hoppers, rock rollers, nightcrawlers) with an automatic fly reel on our fly rods. Heck, some of us continue to do this...


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

PBH said:


> we have a button for "Like" -- where is the button for "Hate"?


LOL, kinda expected that reaction.


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