# rifle hunters will be jumping ship to archery--suck!!!!



## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

what do you guys think the hunting day on the rifle will do for the archery hunt this coming season. i believe the archery will suck!!!!!!! for sure. we will have people jumping ship to hunt a lot longer season. man your hunting holes might have a lot more people in them or walking threw them this year. here is my thought. what do y'all think


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

team-A&S said:


> what do you guys think the hunting day on the rifle will do for the archery hunt this coming season. i believe the archery will suck!!!!!!! for sure. we will have people jumping ship to hunt a lot longer season. man your hunting holes might have a lot more people in them or walking threw them this year. here is my thought. what do y'all think


I have no idea what you're trying to say. Honestly, can you do a new post that clarifies?


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I understood it, he thinks rifle hunters will opt for the archery hunt since the rifle hunt is so short now. I don't agree, but he asking for what your opinion is on the topic.


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

why do you disagree??? it slowly been happening for the past couple of years. guys have been switching to archery, for a longer season or the draw odds are better with a bow then with a rifle. because they have been trying to draw a rifle tag for 8 years and a guy they new drew that same tag a year or to before them for archery. don't get me wrong i love that fact that more people are getting in to archery. but is this the reason we want them to get in to it.because the odds are better !!!!!!!!! JMO


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Why I disagree:
1-The great majority of rifle hunters only hunt the opening day or possibly the first two or three days, so the shorter season will make very little difference to the majority of hunters. 
2-There certainly will be many who will miss not having Saturday, but archery hunting is a much greater commitment than the rifle hunt and many will not make the commitment IMHO. 
3-If I remember correctly, archery has sold out the last two years, this certainly is an indication of some people making the switch. However, I think those are mainly people taking archery as their second choice for not getting the rifle tag, just my opinion.


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

didn't think of it that way. just tried putting my wife in for a rifle tag because of the little girl we will be totting around for the first year. and if all my friends draw there tag's. All of the time i have promised for the filming and back work on there hunts. that it would be a little bit relaxing for both the ladies soon to be in my life for her to get out. but man it not worth 4 days. so i guess it off to Wyoming or Idaho for my wife.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> I understood it, he thinks rifle hunters will opt for the archery hunt since the rifle hunt is so short now. I don't agree, but he asking for what your opinion is on the topic.


Man, you must have a U&T or something. 8)

I agree with A&S, and I hope it is true.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> > I understood it, he thinks rifle hunters will opt for the archery hunt since the rifle hunt is so short now. I don't agree, but he asking for what your opinion is on the topic.
> ...


The U&T is alive and well! I have a 3 year old, it takes all kinds of creative thinking to understand what she says.

For me personally, I did the dh program the last three years and had some fun, did not take a single shot, only saw two worth shooting, but was not quick enough. From that, I decided that it would be more fun to hunt as a family group, which we have put together this year, including a few guys who have not hunted in a couple of years. I am upset that it will only be 5 days, but why pee into the wind about it? Several of these guys will not even be hunting, just out camping with us to enjoy the time together, which makes it fun, so archery is not really an option for the other older guys who have never done archery nor have the time commitment to do it now. If my choice happened in a vacuum (w/ no consideration of family), I would go with the muzzy hunt personally.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Why I disagree:
> 1-The great majority of rifle hunters only hunt the opening day or possibly the first two or three days, so the shorter season will make very little difference to the majority of hunters.
> 2-There certainly will be many who will miss not having Saturday, but archery hunting is a much greater commitment than the rifle hunt and many will not make the commitment IMHO.
> 3-If I remember correctly, archery has sold out the last two years, this certainly is an indication of some people making the switch. However, I think those are mainly people taking archery as their second choice for not getting the rifle tag, just my opinion.


Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner. There is only one fact that matters and that is Huge29 number 3. Archery tags have sold out the last several years, so there will be the same amount of archery hunters this year as last year. It use to be that rifle hunters that didn't draw would go buy an over the counter archery buck tag because 6+ years ago you could still get a tag up to when the hunt started, but that hasn't happened for many years now. Also I believe if there are some rifle hunters that switch over to archery that there is nothing wrong with it, if they put the time into it all the more power to them. It should be an archery vs. rifle type issue in my opinion.

Pro, maybe it is just me, but I understood his post perfectly, but I am also an expert in dkhualkhsdkhfgkjhahlk language. :mrgreen: :lol:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't think it will have that much effect. They have been trying to incentiveize (is that even a word) people to take up archery to lessen the crowds on the rifle hunt for years and years. In the end, you're either a rifle hunter or you're a bow hunter. It's that simple. There are a few they fringe around doing what they think will be the "easy" thing, but for the most part it won't change much.


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

There has been the same amount of Archery tags the last several years and they have sold out before opening day the last couple so I don't anticipate there being more crowding this year than any other year (I think there will be less by going back to Statewide archery, and I hunt the southern region). What might happen is there will be less tags left over after the draw.

Mark


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Status quo.


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## blazingsaddle (Mar 11, 2008)

I personally hate hunting around others- but i do believe that the state should issue a lot more archery tags for every animal, as long as they come from the rifle pool. 
I think archers are/can be the best management tools.

I heard someone say once: "10% of archers are killing 90% of the deer"


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

blazingsaddle said:


> I heard someone say once: "10% of archers are killing 90% of the deer"


I would have thought it was the other way around. That's why I support more archery tags and fewer rifle tags. Lower success rate for archery = more sustainable for Utah's growing population (people not deer).


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## LETTER-RIP (Sep 14, 2007)

MarkM said:


> There has been the same amount of Archery tags the last several years and they have sold out before opening day the last couple so I don't anticipate there being more crowding this year than any other year (I think there will be less by going back to Statewide archery, and I hunt the southern region). What might happen is there will be less tags left over after the draw.
> 
> Mark


there will be the same amount of permits. which means the same amount of hunters. i dont think there will be any tags left over after the draw. that is what scares me


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

ya but the more hunters that shift them self from the rifle hunt to the archery mean the more chance that we who are archery hunters wont draw. so that woulds suck


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

It wasn't the short rifle season that caused me to put in for archery this year. With the increased hours and such I quit the DH program and put in for archery instead. I'll bet I'm not alone on that one.


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

a lot of my buds did the same the hours are high. you are doing there work for no pay. that sucks


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

mm73 said:


> blazingsaddle said:
> 
> 
> > I heard someone say once: "10% of archers are killing 90% of the deer"
> ...


I think the other way around would be the same result??


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

ya that would be great i wanna know what area they are getting those odds from. 90% i think we don't even break 10%. i talked with dwr a while back about the and i believe he told me around the 10% and lower for archery.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Archery success is around 20% year in, year out. Rifle and muzzy are around 30% year in, year out.

I took the 10% kill 90% different than you guys. I took it as 90% of the bucks killed are done so by the same 10% every year, meaning most archers, especially the newbies, will likely hunt for several years and never kill a buck. Others like swbuckmaster, kill every year or almost every year.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> I took it as 90% of the bucks killed are done so by the same 10% every year, meaning most archers, especially the newbies, will likely hunt for several years and never kill a buck. Others like swbuckmaster, kill every year or almost every year.


Yeap, just because you down to the local store and buy a weapon and some hunting clothes then hit the hills doesn't make you a hunter. Oh sure a few of the rookies get lucky once in a while but most of them go home empty handed in any given year.

I don't think many rifle hunters will jump ship to the archery hunt either, yeah there will be a few but most of those probally already bounce back and forth bewteen the hunts like I do, I like to hunt with a variety of weapons, so I change seasons every year or so.


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## megadeth79 (Jul 3, 2009)

yeah I think some of the rifle hunters may jump ship and come to archery hunting, but rifle hunting and archery hunting are 2 TOTALLY different games with a rifle see an elk 400 yards boom you may hit it. Archery you see an elk at 400 yards and good for you, you spotted an elk now you got to get 360 yards closer without getting winded or spooking it. 1st year archery hunters get discouraged real easy especially when you can't get close enough or miss a lot, they quit and go back to rifle. archery takes dedication and hard physical work. I do both I love both equally but archery is MUCH harder and takes much more patience, I like the challenge. This is just my opinion of what I have seen and heard from ex bow hunters


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

I believe the figures are more like 80/20 which seems to be like everything else in life. (20% of the people do 80% of the work in business, church, clubs, politics, etc.)

But, be that as it may, Mega is right in that switching to bowhunting is quite an eyeopener for most rifle hunters! Bowhunters face many more challenges than rifle hunters and most of those challenges aren't realized until you try to get close enough and in position to make that shot without bumping brush with your bow or elbow above, below or in back of you, or hitting that teenie branch you didn't see in front of you, or trying to sit up and draw after crawling on your belly for 50 yards without getting busted, or trying to make the right treestand setup over the waterhole two weeks before the season, or shooting at weird angles and positions cause you can't step out in the open. You can't shoot in the prone position, you can't lay your weapon on a log and wait until the animal goes broadside, you can't shoot at an animal, especially an elk or moose, face on, quartering to, or facing away. Running shots are risky, second shots are almost none existent. A rifle hunter doesn't worry about the animal "jumping the string" because the bullet gets there before the sound, but a deer at 20 yards can hear the sound of a release and react to it before the arrow gets there! There are other issues, but it takes a while to learn them.

I took a buck deer the first year I hunted with a rifle. but it took me seven years to get my first deer (a doe) with a bow. Of course, that was in Southern California in the hills above Malibu where there are more rattlesnakes than deer, but it's rare for a new bowhunter to connect on his/her first few years no matter where he/she hunts. But the pursuit is what makes it fun for me. I still love rifle hunting with my kids and grandkids, and for antlerless hunts. But there's nothing like bowhunting, and I say, the more, the merrier. And there are many more animals to bowhunt other than deer. I should draw my archery antelope tag and possibly my moose tag this year and I can buy an archery bull elk tag over the counter. And then there's antlerless and varmits and cougars and bears, oh my! I didn't even apply for an archery buck deer tag, just bought a point for next year! Like on the Price is Right, I say to you switchers, "COME ON DOWN"!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> I believe the figures are more like 80/20 which seems to be like everything else in life. (20% of the people do 80% of the work in business, church, clubs, politics, etc.)
> 
> I took a buck deer the first year I hunted with a rifle. but it took me seven years to get my first deer (a doe) with a bow. Of course, that was in Southern California in the hills above Malibu where there are more rattlesnakes than deer, but it's rare for a new bowhunter to connect on his/her first few years no matter where he/she hunts. But the pursuit is what makes it fun for me. I still love rifle hunting with my kids and grandkids, and for antlerless hunts. But there's nothing like bowhunting, and I say, the more, the merrier. And there are many more animals to bowhunt other than deer. I should draw my archery antelope tag and possibly my moose tag this year and I can buy an archery bull elk tag over the counter. And then there's antlerless and varmits and cougars and bears, oh my! I didn't even apply for an archery buck deer tag, just bought a point for next year! Like on the Price is Right, I say to you switchers, "COME ON DOWN"!


+1


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## ktowncamo (Aug 27, 2008)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> . In the end, you're either a rifle hunter or you're a bow hunter. It's that simple. There are a few they fringe around doing what they think will be the "easy" thing, but for the most part it won't change much.


I agree with this...except in my case. I am very passionate about hunting elk with my bow but when it comes to deer, despite seeing a number of nice 4x4 shooters last year when archery hunting, I'm sticking to rifle for deer.

Why? Less commitement of time and it keeps me focused on elk vs. going out there thinking "elk today..no deer!...no elk..both!!" and then you end up wandering around hoping one or the other jumps out. I've seen it happen.

More than that, I hunt deer with my boys cause it allows me to get away with a bit more noise and to have them along. Thing is, I hunt deer with a rifle the same way I hunt elk with a bow - hike a couple miles in, spot and stalk, move around and put myself in a spot that will give me most success. I expect in the coming years they will start hunting deer, first with a rifle and then as they get stronger perhaps they will pick up a bow. It's entirely up to them.

Back to the topic on hand, I am a little bummed out that the deer hunt doesn't include the second Saturday which was the day I got my deer last year since I didn't get out on the opener due to a family trip to Powell.

When it comes to the shortening of the season, what I see are a number of happy wives since their men will only be gone 4-5 days total and a number of families that will stay out there the entire "season". This could be the catalyst for more of that good ol' fashioned family deer hunt that seemed to have disappeared over the years due to all of us getting so dang "busy". Taking 3 days off work to camp/hunt with the family is much more reasonable and attainable.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

Huge29 said:


> mm73 said:
> 
> 
> > blazingsaddle said:
> ...


I think what blazingsaddle meant to say is that 90% of the deer killed *during the Archery Hunt* are taken by 10% of the archers. I am sure that is a fairly accurate statement, give or take a few %. They are not, however, killing 90% of the deer total. Not even close. The only point I was trying to make is that bow hunting is more sustainable than rifle hunting. I am both a bow and a rifle hunter. I remember the good old days as a kid going rifle deer hunting with the extended family, but I fear those days are long gone. The people population in Utah has almost tripled since I was a kid, while the deer population has been in a steady decline. I heard somewhere that Utah's population grew by 85,000 people last year! That is enough to create a new city the size of Orem - in 1 year!! That means new development that further encroaches on deer habitat. Look at any canyon along the Wasatch Front - what used to be great deer hunting 30 years ago is now so full of homes that you can not even safely discharge a rifle any more. I am not saying the rifle hunt should go away. Not at all! But I do think it is appropriate that the DWR is trying to "encourage" more people to take up bow hunting. They have given hunters lots of incentives to do so... statewide tags, longer seasons, extended seasons, etc, etc. I can understand how the hard core bow hunters might be apprehensive about the prospect of lots of rifle hunters abandoning their rifles and picking up bows, but I think it is inevitable. Look at mid-western and eastern states - bow hunting is huge in those states and they are able to sustain good deer hunting in spite of having much greater people population density. Granted, those are whitetail deer, and they have more productive deer habitat than we do out here in the arid west, but that is all the more reason to encourage a more sustainable hunt in this state where the deer population is struggling and has been for a long time.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

Good posts here... Pro, are you combining general deer with LE deer for your 80/20 success ration for archery deer?


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Archery success is around 20% year in, year out. Rifle and muzzy are around 30% year in, year out.
> 
> I took the 10% kill 90% different than you guys. I took it as 90% of the bucks killed are done so by the same 10% every year, meaning most archers, especially the newbies, will likely hunt for several years and never kill a buck. Others like swbuckmaster, kill every year or almost every year.


there you go jinxing me!  I welcome more archery hunters.  The sooner the rifle guys figure out archery is not shooting out all the bucks the better. The sooner the rifle guys see if we dont limit the range on the equipment we will be cutting tags=loss of hunting opportunity.

There is no better example of antler size, opportunity, long seasons, buck or doe option, then the front! It keeps getting better and better. I even have 10 archery deer points and wont spend them on any unit in the state except the Henry mtns. why because the bucks i see on the front are better then any other unit in this state and i can hunt it every year!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Man, you must have a U&T or something. 8)


 -_O- -_O-

We could use that in the fishing forum once in awhile !! :lol:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

.45 said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > Man, you must have a U&T or something. 8)
> ...


Personally, I don't know anyone qualified enough to use one, especially fishermen! :lol:


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## cowmilker (Dec 17, 2008)

Well put a chalk mark on the board for me. Longer season with the option to hunt extended wasatch, is, mostly, why I changed (providing I draw a tag). I did only come half way though, I did muzzle loader the last 8 years (I know it's still a rifle, but not a 400 yard weapon). I have a lot to learn but I have also learned a lot so far. I am excited!

I will have a 12yr old boy next year so I may go back to rifle but not for long, I will at least fall back to a muzzle loader. With the centerfire hunt, there is always someone who can out shoot you (more money to buy better equipment, or more time to practice) and can take away "your" dear (I realize a dear isn't your's until you've tagged it). With ML or Archery it takes away (somewhat) from someone people shooting the animal that you spent the last 200yds bellycrawling after.


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