# Affordable and hunt-able



## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Ok I am looking at maybe trying to switch things up a bit and trying these... 
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/...l/Bullets-and-Sabots/prod9999002204/cat100013

Matched with these.... 
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/...roductDetail/Bullets/prod9999001965/cat100138

For an affordable deer and elk load for my muzzy.

I know that the flex tip is for tube magazines but seems to reason that they may add a ever so slight advantage. Has anyone tried this? I am seeing that if you add the 50 sabots to the 50 rounds you come out at $.77 per round where as with the TMZ or the Powerbelts you are closer to $1.50 per round. Also I have heard great reviews of using the sabots and utilizing handgun and lever-gun rounds. Is this making sense or is this crazy?

I am planning on using Pyrodex Pellets... Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I absolutely love those sabots, best ones I've ever tried in my Rem700ML... in fact rumor is Remington designed that rifle around that sabot and a 240grn XTP. I havent tried the FTX but it gets great reviews from others. Personally, I just stick to 240grn XTPs for deer, 300grn for elk... they cloverleaf at 100 yards and the extra BC of the FTX really doesn't come into play at yardages I shoot at.

I've only ever recovered 2, of the 240grn XTPs. Those were from quartering shots and the slugs penetrated over 30" of deer. I've never recovered any of the 300's fired through elk. Both types make BIG holes. 

I detest pellets though, I use 90grns loose Pyrodex RS under the 240, and 110 under the 300xtp. Swab between shots and you will get some pretty impressive groups with either at the range. 

Killed well over 20 deer with this load and elk as well.

-DallanC


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

So if I ran XTP in the 300 grain then I should have a good all around load? So long as the pellets that you detest work out. Why do you hate pellets just out of curiosity?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Nambaster said:


> So if I ran XTP in the 300 grain then I should have a good all around load?


Its a great load... I like the milder shooting 240's for deer though. You do feel a 300 at 110grns alot more. In my gun those two bullets & powder amounts were super accurate and on animal preformance is exceptional.



> So long as the pellets that you detest work out. Why do you hate pellets just out of curiosity?


Several reasons: 1 I had ignition problems with pellets in the beginning. 2, I find more accurate loads at powder amounts I cant get with pellets, 3 there was some heated discussions about the extra volume in chamber due to pellets that dont quite fill up all the volume of the chamber like loose powder will (it compacts better, utilizing all the volume).

Like I said, I literally get cloverleafs with my loads @100 yards. I've yet to achieve that with pellets or any of the new powders that are out. It works for me so I don't mess with it. :mrgreen:

You are free to try any combination of things, hopefully you get satisfactory results. Every gun is different, some are picky about components, some are not.

-DallanC


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

I used the 325 grain FTX with the Harvester crush rib sabot pushed with 110 grains of BH to take a bull at 165 yards. Dropped him in his tracks (continue reading). I have shot mule deer with the same load with HORRIBLE results though. I think the thinner hide was not enough to get good expansion and results in just punching right through without transfering any energy to the vitals. I was able to recover the FTX from my elk and will get a pic of it up when I get home. I wasnt too impressed with the expansion in the elk, or in the water jugs I shot after. I think the only reason my bull dropped like he did because was because it was a downhill quartering away shot, so the spine was close to the enty and took a lot of impact (resulting in paralizing him untill he bled out). I think these FTX bullets are made for a higher velocity than what the smoke pole will push them. I will not shoot them again at big game.

But they are a very accurate and cheap alternative at the range for lots of trigger time for sure though.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

If I think of it tonight, I'll post a couple pictures of my recovered XTPs (massive expansion / shredding).


-DallanC


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

Here are three of the 325 grain FTX bullets. The center one was shot into water filled milk jugs at 50 yards. The right is the one I recovered from my bull. It entered mid rib cage and was found lodged under the hide of the opposite front leg. Minimal expansion and total separation of the jacket from the lead core.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

At this point I am very glad that I asked before just jumping in an purchasing the bullets. I have found that the XTP's are sounding like a better alternative to the FTX's and I am very grateful for the input brought out and presented. I am getting very excited to get out and hunt a different season as well.


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

You're gonna regret it lol!! I will still flip a stick now and then, maybe even shoot a center fire now and then. But my favorite hunts will ALWAYS be with a smoke pole. Good luck hoss and enjoy!! ;-)


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Is this FTX bullet the same bullet Hornady produces for the SST muzzleloader bullet? I know they look the same, but that doesn't mean they are the same.

So far I have had good results with the SST and Shockwave bullets and 90 grains of loose 777. I have had 2 bullets that entered the deers chest right at the front of the shoulder and travel length wise to the hind quarter. Both deer only took 4-5 steps and went down. I have also shot a few more broadside, that I did not recover the bullet. I have had 3 of these bullets where the core all but fell out of the jacket after I found them. I wouldn't say they failed because the deer was killed, but they were right at the point of failure. 

This year I plan to change my set up a little bit and I am going to try the Blackhorn 209 powder, and I am considering a different bullet as well. I like the price of the XTP's so I may go that route.

Dallan, do you know if there is a certain velocity range of the XTP's for best performance? I'm thinking of shooting 90- 100 grains of the BH, and I assume the velocity of a 250gr will be around 1800 fps. 

Anyone have any other ideas on which bullet will perform good on deer at 50-150 yard ranges?


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

No, this is not the same slug as the SST. The FTX is for reloading actual rifle loads for tube fed magazines like lever action rifles. It is designed for higher velocities and definitley not for low charges (80-90 grain) in a smoke pole.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Flex tips and aero dynamics seem to lose over expansion and trauma when it comes to shooting a round that comes out of a smoke pole. I am getting the feeling that sliding a bullet out of a steel tube at sub sonic velocities is more about impact than it is about Aero dynamics I would imagine the speeds are not up to par to cause the tips to engage expansion. 

At least that is the feeling I am getting from this thread. Which is really driving me towards the XTP. You also can't beat $.77 per round. I could go to the range and shoot and clean and shoot and clean and stay busy all day long fine tuning my muzzleloader at that rate.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Switched last season from the 250gr SST to the 300gr XTP-MAG. When I was at Sportsman's deciding between the 300gr SST and the XTP-MAG... I went with the XTP just because it said "MAG"! however, I'm pretty pleased. I did not recover the XTP from my buck last year but the damage done to the exit side was impressive to say the least. 

I recovered an SST from a buck several years ago and it expanded well in a quartering away shot at about 30 yards. Found it lodged under the skin of the opposite shoulder (2nd pic). Same for my brother's buck last year with the same bullet and same type of shot (1st pic).


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Just like the SST's in my 30-06 they fragment super fast. Usually the lead comes out of the jacket.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I've tried the 265 FTX along with the Harvester Crush Rib Sabot and thought it shot pretty well. I wouldn't mind revisiting that load again to see if I could tighten things up a bit.

To be honest, I've never liked the Hornady sabots much - the HCR have given me better results with XTPs, Nosler JHPs and the FTX. They are about the same price, but I usually have to order them online. 

I've found pyrodex to be a bit dirtier than Triple Seven pellets in my rifle. 2 50 grain pellets and whatever bullet I want to try seems to give great results in my Optima.

Have Fun!!


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I started with the SST's and never tried anything else because they shoot awesome. I killed a deer with one shot at 140 yards. If anything, I think the bullet did not expand enough. I'll stick with them until I find a reason to change. ------SS


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