# Another Grizzly Attack



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

https://kutv.com/news/nation-world/grizzly-attacks-hunter-in-mountains-north-of-yellowstone


----------



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Lucky. I bet the bite on the arm breaking the bone was painful. 

This stuff is why I'm a proponent of increasing bear and cougar tags. I know it's not the bear or cougars fault, but they still need to be chased around to keep them somewhat afraid of humans.


----------



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I know there was a big argument over gun vs. bear spray in the other grizzly attack thread last month. I think the bear spray his buddy used saved his life, because that grizzly was on him so fast he didn't have time to use his own. Scary stuff and a lucky guy to be alive, and yes that broken bone had to have hurt.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> I think the bear spray his buddy used saved his life, because that grizzly was on him so fast he didn't have time to use his own.


When he did use his own, he sprayed himself in the face. Thank goodness it was bear spray and not a sidearm!


----------



## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> I know there was a big argument over gun vs. bear spray in the other grizzly attack thread last month. I think the bear spray his buddy used saved his life, because that grizzly was on him so fast he didn't have time to use his own. Scary stuff and a lucky guy to be alive, and yes that broken bone had to have hurt.


Agreed. The bear spray wasn't the only thing that saved his life. The thing that saved his life was not hunting solo in grizzly country.


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

If a grizzly ever latches on to me and the extent of my injuries are a broken arm and some bear spray in my face then I’ll consider myself very lucky. 

Good on his hunting partner/guide for helping to get the job done. 

Bear spray. It works. (As long as you shake it up good before, right longbow?)


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Fowlmouth said:


> I know there was a big argument over gun vs. bear spray in the other grizzly attack thread last month. I think the bear spray his buddy used saved his life, because that grizzly was on him so fast he didn't have time to use his own. Scary stuff and a lucky guy to be alive, and yes that broken bone had to have hurt.


Personally, If I knew I was going into brown bear territory, I'd carry both bear spray, AND a firearm.



PBH said:


> When he did use his own, he sprayed himself in the face. Thank goodness it was bear spray and not a sidearm!


Being realistic, it's kind of hard to shoot yourself in the face. Probably very easy to shoot yourself in the arms during a struggle, even a leg or foot, but the head/face? I don't believe that.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Being realistic, it's kind of hard to shoot yourself in the face.


I 100% agree.



Lone_Hunter said:


> Probably very easy to shoot yourself in the arms during a struggle, even a leg or foot, but the head/face? I don't believe that.


This is the whole point of my comment.

It was a bad situation -- a situation in which the person probably was not thinking completely clear and rational. Which is why the bear spray was absolutely the right defense. The last thing that person in a panicked state of mind should reach for is a gun. What might have been shot had he pulled out a sidearm instead of bear spray? We don't know. It could have been himself, it could have been his partner. Maybe neither.

What about his partner? He also sprayed pepper spray - which probably saved the man being attacked. What if he would have pulled a firearm instead of pepper spray? What might he have hit?

Luckily, in this particular situation, those questions need not be answered. We already know the answer: pepper spray saved this man's life.


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I have one word for a rebuttal:


Training.


Using any firearm for defense, should always entail training. You need to have muscle memory. That usually takes one thousand repetitions on whatever it is. Not much for excuses in not practicing/training either, because it's fun.

That aside, I'm thinking your putting out the same kind of argument that anti-gunners make in terms of ANY defensive situation. They throw out a lot of "what if's" and insinuate that no matter what it is, your better off without a gun. Nobody will ever convince me of that. 

Nothing in life is 100% fool proof. Not bear spray, not firearms. I don't see why it's continually debated. Carry both. Is everyone so concerned over pack weight that it's en exclusive option? That one MUST be chosen over the other? I say carry both, hell, carry the bear spray IN your hand as you walk, if you can. If it works, great, if not, you have another option. Having options is great, not having options isn't.


----------



## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Man, what a scary deal. Not to make light of a tense situation, but did anyone else chuckle a little when they had the mental picture of the guy spraying himself in the face, albeit completely unintended, with the bear spray?

It brought to memory of the greatest scenes from one of the greatest movies . . .


----------



## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I have one word for a rebuttal:
> 
> Training.


I don't have a dog in this fight, but how do you train for a grizz sitting on your chest, gnawing on your arm?

(Unless you are Longbow. He and his buddies probably are required to do that for mandatory work staff training.)


----------



## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Aside from having the for basic rules already drilled into your head; All you CAN do, is know your weapon, how to operate it, clear malfunctions, how to shoot it under stress, and how to hit MOVING targets. 



Again, nothing is fool proof. Neither bear spray, nor a gun. The thing is, a gun comes with responsibility, and if you can't handle that responsibility, then you probably shouldn't be hunting in the mountains to begin with.


----------



## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Catherder said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight, but how do you train for a grizz sitting on your chest, gnawing on your arm?
> 
> (Unless you are Longbow. He and his buddies probably are required to do that for mandatory work staff training.)


That is a really good point and brings up the answer to the training.

It would be hard to train with a bear chewing on you but you can and should train with what you are using, both bear spray and firearms.

Shooting a .454 Casull for example is not probably a fun one to shoot a lot but if that is what you are going to carry you need to shoot it a lot and practice drawing from all positions. I would also practice drawing and pointing the bear spray.

Just like defensive hand gun training you want it to be muscle memory. When you need your gun or bear spray, you want to be able to grab and present it without having to fumble around and try to find it on your hip or chest holster.

Reading these responses I had a thought, ( I know, it kind of hurt), but I think that I will build some type of target holder on skids or wheels that I can mount a life size bear target on, tie it to a rope that can be pulled by a 4 wheeler, stand 30 to 40 feet away from the target with my back to the target and have a friend on the wheeler hit the gas and practice turning, drawing and hitting the target as it it pulled toward and passed me. Having some protection against the target hitting me and protecting the driver of the wheeler.

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

https://www.outdoorlife.com/article...-defense-practice-drill-drop-charging-grizzly

I remember seeing the above referenced article some time ago - to Bowgy's point - it might help 'practice' the situation none of us ever want to be in.


----------



## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

longbow said:


> Agreed. The bear spray wasn't the only thing that saved his life. The thing that saved his life was not hunting solo in grizzly country.


Any thoughts about bringing a dog with you in grizz country. Have you seen any difference in behavior from the bears with dogs? Do they tend go after them or do you think it would help deter them more from interacting with the person?


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

bowgy said:


> ... I think that I will build some type of target holder on skids or wheels that I can mount a life size bear target on, tie it to a rope that can be pulled by a 4 wheeler, stand 30 to 40 feet away from the target with my back to the target and have a friend on the wheeler hit the gas and practice turning, drawing and hitting the target as it it pulled toward and passed me. Having some protection against the target hitting me and protecting the driver of the wheeler.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Here: hold my beer.


----------



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Any thoughts about bringing a dog with you in grizz country. Have you seen any difference in behavior from the bears with dogs? Do they tend go after them or do you think it would help deter them more from interacting with the person?


You don't see a lot of people in Alaska (at least where I was at) out for walks without dogs. I think dogs will certainly help alert you of the presence of a bear, and alert the bear to your presence. I also think the dog could be a "sacrificial lamb" with an aggressive bear. I think having a dog with you while in grizzly country is a good idea.

However, hunting deer / elk with a dog? I'm not too sure I'd do that.


----------



## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

7MM RELOADED said:


> Any thoughts about bringing a dog with you in grizz country. Have you seen any difference in behavior from the bears with dogs? Do they tend go after them or do you think it would help deter them more from interacting with the person?


That's an excellent idea as long as your dog obeys commands. Most of us here have dogs just for the purpose of alerting us to bears. Big dogs are better. Most of the time the bears will move away when they hear a big dog barking. They don't run but they do grumble and huff a bit and then ease away. A dogs biggest asset is to alert you though. They can smell or hear a bear way before you do.

A side story: I use to work with a guy from Russia (Czech). He use to patrol the perimeter of some military base with German shepherds. But, they also had Shih Tzu dogs as well. The Shih Tzus had some kind of keen sense and they would hear/smell/whatever something amiss way before the German shephards. I didn't think much of it until I moved here with my Shih Tzu. I can't count how many times that little girl has jumped from her bed and ran to the back of the couch and started barking out the window. I'll get up and sure enough there's a bear or a fox in mine or my neighbor's yard. I don't know how she does it, especially something as quiet as a fox.


----------



## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Catherder said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight, but how do you train for a grizz sitting on your chest, gnawing on your arm?
> 
> (Unless you are Longbow. He and his buddies probably are required to do that for mandatory work staff training.)


A long gun would probably not be useful in that situation. A pistol or spray would be your only hope. But then again, you shouldn't be alone and hopefully your partner would jump in and help.

I'll be honest, with as many bear confrontations I've had, I'm no expert with bear encounters. I never will be. I've been lucky enough to have warning that a bear is around and it's given me enough time to gather my $hit and be ready for it. That's a big, big plus. I might hear a huff, see brush moving, smell a bear or be tracking a wounded bear. It's those bears that charge without warning that scare me. You can't mentally stay tuned for bears every second you're hiking around. A human mind wanders too much. Last week another hunter and I were hiking along and not ten feet from the trail, a gizz bolts from it's bed. Luckily we scared it as much as it scared us. But it got me thinking, even though I had my Weatherby cradled in my arms, if that bear would have came at me there was no time for me to react and get a shot off. It shook me.
Now take yesterday, Ryan shot a small buck. He's taking care of it while I stand guard. Five minutes in and I hear a bunch of huffing and jaw popping. Sure enough, a sow and two cubs. And they are GOING to take our deer. Ryan and I grabbed packs, guns and what meat he had and got the h3ll away. She and her cubs marched right in, grabbed it and dragged it into the alders. If she would have rushed us from the distance we first saw them....well, it probably wouldn't have been good.


----------



## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

By the way, I don't know Bob Legasa personally but I sent him a message, introduced myself and we have corresponded a few times since. He is doing well. 
Our last PM:

"Thank you Chuck, I appreciate you reaching out and your thoughts. All in all I think I came out of this pretty darn good. Just came out of surgery on my arm and I am on my way to healing up. Once again thank you"

Good to hear.


----------



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I guess all you need are #6's to roll a grizzly.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4591210/...qVYxKY-OIbpVeTeIshOXzZUQ4-BV2OaQK-33imJ6RM1Ko


----------



## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

That’s insane - thanks for sharing the link!


----------



## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Whoa! That’s nuts. Dude is lucky.


----------

