# Why hunt LE deer units?



## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Why is there such a big demand to hunt LE deer units?
There are 10's of thousands of people who put in for these very few units each year. 
Why is this?
Are most of these people looking to shoot a 200" buck? 
I don't think so.
Do many of them just want to hunt with lesser crowds?
Probably
Do many of them just want to see more bucks in the field while hunting?
I think so
I by no mean want to see our general units be limited to the point of our current LE units.
(only as a last resort, when either the herd crashes or the buck to doe ratio falls well below objectives)
But I believe so many people wouldn't be putting in for these LE hunts if they weren't satisfied with their general hunting experiences.
This is why many people do support tag cuts when proposed.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Some people grew up hunting units that were later turned into LE units for various reasons. They put in for it as it is the place they grew up hunting and have memories of hunting there in the past with Dad, Grandpa etc. It can have nothing to do with antlers.


-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I think the answer is easy-- It is because people can put in for a limited entry hunt and then apply for a general season permit. I'd wager that less people would apply for the limited entry tags if they couldn't get a general season tag.

Take me and my family, for example. 3 of us apply for limited entry hunts, but we are satisfied with our general season experiences. I have many friends who feel the same way. Being able to do both, wait in both lines, is why.

Your other reasons are valid and, most likely, secondary for the reason as why they apply for ltd.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

DallanC said:


> Some people grew up hunting units that were later turned into LE units for various reasons. They put in for it as it is the place they grew up hunting and have memories of hunting there in the past with Dad, Grandpa etc. It can have nothing to do with antlers.
> 
> -DallanC


Dallan, I'm sure that's true for some but not for the masses. Probably the same % as those looking for a 200" buck.

Packout, I do the same thing but the reason I and I'm sure your family is willing to spend more money on a LE hunt is because it is a better experience than a general season hunt as is.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

:rotfl:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

No Ridge, we APPLY for a limited entry hunt for the reasons you listed, but ONLY because we can fall-back onto our general season units.

For example, we now apply for 17A for our general hunt. It (and the Central Region before) is not a guaranteed draw every year. There is no way I would wait 12 years to draw a LTD tag if that meant I wouldn't be able to hunt the areas I enjoy on the general seasons. 

Would you wait 10 years for a limited entry tag, forgoing hunting you usually areas with family and friends? Sure, more deer and less competition are great. Everyone wants that. But what are they willing to give up?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

I DON"T apply for LE deer hunts for four reasons. Number one, because I'd rather archery hunt pronghorn and elk. Number two, I have 13 moose points and I don't want to ruin my chances of drawing a moose tag by drawing an LE deer tag. Number three, I have plenty of places around Enoch/Cedar City where I have a chance of finding a trophy on the general archery hunt with very little competition. And number four, the added expense isn't worth the so-called benefits.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

I believe people apply/hunt to have a chance at a good buck, not cause they are wanting to sing kumbaya around the campfire :shock: 

Seriously....I believe the chance at a quality buck and hunt is what drives the demand...


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Quality is a subjective term, and everyone has there own standards as to what passes quality control. Some people just want to shoot something with horns, from the road, while enjoying the tradition and feeding their family. Some are all about big horns, but they have to be obtained under certain circumstances, while for some the circumstances do not matter. What is "quality"?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Packout, I already answered your question and you answered mine.  
I'm willing not to hunt my perferred unit every year, if it meant a higher buck to doe ratio in the stuggling units that I might want to hunt.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Quality is a subjective term, and everyone has there own standards as to what passes quality control. Some people just want to shoot something with horns, from the road, while enjoying the tradition and feeding their family. Some are all about big horns, but they have to be obtained under certain circumstances, while for some the circumstances do not matter. What is "quality"?


Whatever "quality" means to a person, doesn't really matter.
But they can have a better oppertunity at the type of "quality" they are after on a LE unit. Otherwise, they wouldn't need a unit to fall back on(like what Packout is saying) or they could just get a left over general season tag for less money than a LE.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

ridgetop said:


> Packout, I already answered your question and you answered mine.
> I'm willing not to hunt my perferred unit every year, if it meant a higher buck to doe ratio in the stuggling units that I might want to hunt.


That's great, we appreciate the sacrifice you are willing to make. Problem is, it does nothing to grow more deer, which have been in long term decline since the '80s. And for 20 years fewer and fewer people have been able to hunt deer at all. So with 20 years of reduced hunters, we should have seen higher buck to ratios, and more deer overall by now, right?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

ridgetop said:


> Lonetree said:
> 
> 
> > Quality is a subjective term, and everyone has there own standards as to what passes quality control. Some people just want to shoot something with horns, from the road, while enjoying the tradition and feeding their family. Some are all about big horns, but they have to be obtained under certain circumstances, while for some the circumstances do not matter. What is "quality"?
> ...


If quality, is defined as opportunity to someone, then a LE area does not provide _opportunity_. Quality, in reference to LE units, for most people here, is obviously about fewer people, and a chance at bigger antlers, why not say so?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> ridgetop said:
> 
> 
> > Packout, I already answered your question and you answered mine.
> ...


Your a smart guy Lonetree. You should understand how a graph and curve works.
When the huntable bucks to hunters ratio goes down with the general deer herd size. Then to maintain the same huntable buck ratio and harvest %. Hunters will need to be ruduced or harvest % will need to be lowered. But something will need to give. 
All the while, we can hope for better range conditions to grow the herd and hopefully increase tag numbers.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

I know some one else that is all about Hope.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

Packout hit the nail on head on this one IMO. The only reason I apply for LE deer is because I can apply for it and still hunt good general units every year (and because they have a waiting limit after drawing a LE elk tag). 

I think Utah has this part of their system messed up very badly and it needs a change. Deer should all be lumped into one point pool and application, if you don't draw your first choice you get a point and you can hunt one of your other choices. There are no OTC tags in utah for deer - so it is all LE by nature and should be defined that way. 

Lifetime license holders are the only cog in the wheel, and I'm not sure what the best way to manage that is at this point.


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## redleg (Dec 5, 2007)

The DWRs' quest for trophy bucks all over the state is leaving a lot of hunters out of the hunt every year and the reason young hunters are not being recruited. Family hunts, like we enjoyed when we were kids, can't happen an more; with the state-wide limited entry units and the proclamations that require a lawyer to understand. Every year I pick up the latest proclamation and wonder why this years' regulations have almost no semblance to last years'.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

redleg said:


> The DWRs' quest for trophy bucks all over the state is leaving a lot of hunters out of the hunt every year and the reason young hunters are not being recruited. Family hunts, like we enjoyed when we were kids, can't happen an more; with the state-wide limited entry units and the proclamations that require a lawyer to understand. Every year I pick up the latest proclamation and wonder why this years' regulations have almost no semblance to last years'.


What? the overriding goal, and essence of hunting, is not about trophies?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

People are willing to wait 15-20 years to hunt a LE unit to have less crowds? I think not. 

I have done elk points my whole hunting life. I'm not holding out with 16 points so I can avoid crowds. I'm holding out hoping for a once-in-a-lifetime bull. I could draw many LE hunts right now guaranteed. But I'm holding out for the best hunts hoping for te best bull possible. I know it will be a LOOOONG time before I have a chance at a tag like that again, if I get one ever. (The sad reality of Utah hunting these days.) 

"Quality" is definitely subjective to the individual, but also relative to the unit. Nobody is shooting a small 3-point on the Henry's on opening morning. That same deer, with the same people seeing it would die on most general tags without hesitation. The 2 days before my Pauns rifle hunt last year I saw 50+ bucks I would have never considered taking with that tag, not even on the last day. But on my general tag this fall I will pull the trigger on the vast majority of those bucks at first light opening morning without thinking twice. The tag/unit matters. And not just because of crowds or numbers of bucks.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

You did **** good not using the words big, or trophy.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

" Why hunt LE deer units " ?

Because they are 10x Better than general ..


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

The question isn't why people put in for LE hunts. The question is how many people would put in for them if they couldn't put in for an LE hunt and a general unit hunt. The reality is that a lot more people put in for a general hunts than LE hunts. A lot more. The question is how many more would just put in for those general hunts if they couldn't put in for both.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I know if I could not put in for Le and ge hunts at the same time.I would pick the Ge hunts over the le hunts.I want to unite every year not just every ten to 15 years.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> There are 10's of thousands of people who put in for these very few units each year.


Just an FYI or side note: the number of LE units in this state is about the same as the number of general season units if you include all of the CWMUS...


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> The question isn't why people put in for LE hunts. The question is how many people would put in for them if they couldn't put in for an LE hunt and a general unit hunt. The reality is that a lot more people put in for a general hunts than LE hunts. A lot more. The question is how many more would just put in for those general hunts if they couldn't put in for both.


No, Thats not the queaston WtoU.

First line of the topic,

"Why is there such a big demand to hunt LE deer units?"

Refer to my post above


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

The demand for general season hunts is much higher....to answer the original question, then, the demand is high for LE hunts because it gives hunters a second chance to draw. Why wouldn't I only apply for one hunt when I can apply for two?

I contend that the demand for LE hunts would go way down if hunters had to choose between an LE and a general application....because the demand for general season hunts is much much higher than LE hunts.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

And in the peripheral policy and culture debate, some lose sight of what actually matters. When the distractions become the everyday issue, because they are easier to handle, and driven by those with agendas, they ultimately replace, and parasitically erode the foundation, they should be building on. Over the generations, hunters then become something their forefathers would not recognize. 

How much did the deer you shot last year weigh? Most of your fathers and grandfathers could tell you, what everyone they shot weighed, I know mine could.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> I contend that the demand for LE hunts would go way down if hunters had to choose between an LE and a general application....because the demand for general season hunts is much much higher than LE hunts.


I agree , And I support there only being one " deer point group " ,,
And only allowed 1 deer application. Be it LE ,OR general.

In-fact, I proposed this idea in the very begining, before opt 2 even passed...

Our very own Bullsnot was strongly against this idea...As was most of the RAC/Board


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## El Matador (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm like most people here, I apply for the LE hunts because I can. Knowing that if/when I draw the tag I will have more of a VIP hunting experience. I really enjoy the general deer hunt each year though, so I'm careful which LE units I apply for. As a teenager I hunted the Henry Mountains a number of times, and would love to hunt there again some day. I had friends and neighbors tell me about hunts they had on the Book Cliffs. Back then the state was one big general season area with only a few LE opportunities such as the Paunsaugunt. Now we have fewer deer to hunt. And half of our hunting areas are off-limits. Private ranches that used to accommodate general season tag holders for a small trespass fee are now CWMUs charging thousands for a tag. Well, the acreage we have to hunt hasn't changed too terribly much. It's the regulations. Instead of one big pie with one line of people we now have several smaller pies with several lines. I don't see the need. I agree with many of you that the double-dipping only complicates matters and hurts the sport. One drawing for deer is all we need. And I believe the same is true for elk. If you obtain a general season tag you should not be able to retain a bonus point for that species the same year. Or better yet, put all the tags in the same drawing. Make that change and watch your general hunts improve. And see how much easier it becomes to draw a premium tag. 

The problem with this change is that it would improve the hunting for average people. It would decrease the value of those premium tags because they'd be easier to get. And that goes very contrary to the agenda of those who are making/dictating our hunting regulations.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

I apply for LE deer units because I can while I still retain my ability to hunt the general season as well. I'm in the 5th year of my waiting period now. Next year I will be faced with the delima of applying for elk or deer again. If I hadn't built 5 years of deer points already, I'm not sure I would apply for LE deer. 

If the two systems were combined I would choose the general season every time. I don't think the value of the premium units would be reduced too significantly. Guys with a lot of years waiting are unlikely to burn their points on anything less after investing that much into the tag. Furthermore, a 2nd, 3rd, etc choice is not going to cost you your points, you may just have to hunt less attractive units if you want to hunt.

I do think demand for 2nd tier LE units would drop some though. I don't see guys hunting unfamiliar units or waiting a long time for a tag in an area that only has marginally better trophy opportunity than some of the top general season units. I don't think it lowers demand for general season tags at all.


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> How much did the deer you shot last year weigh? Most of your fathers and grandfathers could tell you, what everyone they shot weighed, I know mine could.


I can tell you how much meat I've gotten off of the deer I have shot......but couldn't get the **** things on a scale before I shot them to tell you how much they weighed.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I apply for CWMU's because my general hunts are on Monroe. Even though I have had some bad experiences with operators and other hunters on CWMU's it's still beats the pants off a general hunt on Monroe. 

Now if we can only get a CWMU on Monroe I'd be dialed. -Ov- 

For me the CWMU's and LE hunts are somewhat nostalgic. You know seeing 200 deer and 50 of them where buck and 10 of them were 4pt and 2 where dandies kind of days. Like we used to see in every unit back in the day.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> The question isn't why people put in for LE hunts. The question is how many people would put in for them if they couldn't put in for an LE hunt and a general unit hunt. The reality is that a lot more people put in for a general hunts than LE hunts. A lot more. The question is how many more would just put in for those general hunts if they couldn't put in for both.


Thanks for trying to highjack my post. Jerk! 
 
If you guys are just putting in for the LE's for another chance at drawing out on a tag. How about putting in for the Box Elder or unit 1 as a 2nd choice?
Plenty of leftover tags on that one. 
I'm pretty sure there would still be plenty of people putting in or having someone else put them in for the harder to get tags.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> If you guys are just putting in for the LE's for another chance at drawing out on a tag. How about putting in for the Box Elder or unit 1 as a 2nd choice?
> Plenty of leftover tags on that one.
> I'm pretty sure there would still be plenty of people putting in or having someone else put them in for the harder to get tags.


I'm putting in for the Book Cliffs because it is an area I am familiar with and because it carries a bit a nostalgia for me. I killed my first buck there.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> How much did the deer you shot last year weigh? Most of your fathers and grandfathers could tell you, what everyone they shot weighed, I know mine could.


I dont go by the weight of my deers that I kill to say it was a great hunt and i dont think any body does. If you are going by body size I have seen bigger does then i have bucks.I hate to say it but it not about the antlers. sorry it not. that the problem these days.Every one has to have the biggest buck on the mountain to show off and then the sad thing is they dont eat the meat.

The other reason I want to hunt Le unites so I can hunt some of these cool place and that hunting a Le is the only way I can do that.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I agree , And I support there only being one " deer point group " ,,
> And only allowed 1 deer application. Be it LE ,OR general.
> 
> In-fact, I proposed this idea in the very begining, before opt 2 even passed...
> ...


because they would lose more money. Come on you should know that. every app there a ten dollar fee. I just dumped 120 bucks in to app fees this year. if I had to only pick one hunt then it would have saved me a crap load of money.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> Thanks for trying to highjack my post. Jerk!
> 
> If you guys are just putting in for the LE's for another chance at drawing out on a tag. How about putting in for the Box Elder or unit 1 as a 2nd choice?
> Plenty of leftover tags on that one.
> I'm pretty sure there would still be plenty of people putting in or having someone else put them in for the harder to get tags.


You've got to remember that even us opportunity guys would love to kill a big buck....even though I would rather hunt every year and shoot two points than hunt once every 10 years and shoot a big buck, that dream of shooting a monster still pumps through my veins. Since I moved back to Utah from Wyoming, I have only had one year when I did not have a deer tag...it was that first year back in Utah and I applied as a non-resident. So, I have applied for either an archery tag or a DH tag and also a pauns archery LE tag. And, as a result, I have been able to hunt deer every year in areas close to home.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

I think the original question has been answered by many diffrent people so I am going to hijack the thread for moment.

If either going to a single choice application (GS tag or LE point, not both) each year and/or transitioning some LE units back to GS. . .

- Improved your GS draw odds or allowed you to draw every year
- Spread out hunters and reduced the number of hunters in the field on the GS
- Naturally with fewer hunters increased buck / doe ratios in GS areas
- Reduced the number of points needed to draw a LE tag

Would you support it?

I for a long time have thought this would be a great compromise that would fix so many problems. I personally would go after a trophy buck every year on GS units but I would give up being able to apply for LE units in any year I chose to hunt GS. LE guys would draw tags more frequently but miss out on hunting the GS. There are too many hunters (mostly trophy LE guys) who want to have their cake and eat it too.

It just seems natural to me if you want to highly restrict other hunters from hunting in an area to create an artificial buck/doe ratio that you should sit out the GS to create your eutopian hunting reserve. With that said, I have 9 LE points.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Artificial buck/doe ratio? What is a natural B/D ratio 5/100?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

^^^natural B/D ratio ? With a 50/50 split birth rate,, 50 out of 100 would be bucks^^^
:lol:


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Except cougar kill more solitary buck than grouped up doe. So it might be around 40/100. 

Just messing with ya Goofy.


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Is there about to be discussion about how bucks CANNOT give birth coming in this thread?

:O•-:


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I've never applied for a LE deer tag. Don't ever intend to.

I put in for LE elk for 16 years because I wanted to hunt elk "down home" one more time. Did that, so now I'm done. Never knew when I supported LE elk hunts that it would mean tags would really be that hard to get. At the time, we were thinking 5 years at the outside.

So y'all can have the LE hunts. All I want is to do now is chase deer on a general season crap unit with my bow. But it ain't gonna happen this year.

We now have statewide Limited Entry deer hunting, do we not?

It's time this summer for the Utah Deer Management Plan Committee to reconvene. I'm laughing with you, gentlemen, not at you. (Well, okay, I'm laughing at you just a little bit.)


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Finn, was that unit a non-spike only unit? Just woundering, why not a spike tag and hunt it every year?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I've hunted spikes and may do so again. But hunting spikes is nothing like hunting bulls - entirely different behaviors.


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> I've hunted spikes and may do so again. But hunting *spikes* is nothing like hunting *bulls* - entirely different behaviors.


SPIKES are BULLS Finn....surprised you didn't know that!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I apply for Premium Le units only because I can. I want to kill big bucks and I get my cake and eat it too right now with the Wasatch front being Le quality and a tag i can draw every year. But if the state made me choose, I would probably just go mid tier Le archery unit. You can have the lame low buck to doe, orange on every ridge rifle areas we have here in Utah! 

Id probably put my wife in a mid tier Le rifle unit and put my kids in a mid tier archery unit. then we will just hunt out of state with rifles if we didnt draw a tag we want in Utah. 
We would hunt antelope in Wyoming every few years. Maybe a pig hunt in Texas or other exotics with bows. Elk in Colorado every few years. Throw deer in Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, and Colorado. 

Hunting deer with rifles in Utah would probably be an after thought unless things change for the better. Right now the general areas suck and are hardly worth the gas money to hunt them!


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

sw- You have been on the rifle-hate bandwagon lately, which serves no purpose but further divides our hunting community. I have never been more crowded than on some of my Front archery hunts or some of my WY and CO rifle hunts. But I guess, right or wrong, one's perception is their own reality.......


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Yep
Ive never liked how crowded the rifle hunt is and that is why i quit hunting it over 10 years ago.
Ive been out on it for several years just dont have a tag. Everytime same thing and glad i dont have the tag.

Last year left a bad taste in my mouth. Never have i been told where i can hunt on the front but I had several people tell my daughter to find another place to hunt 4 miles in. One even told me to take her back down to the roads and road hunt. I didnt even have a tag. I wanted to tell each to pound sand. Later in the day we had rifle hunters shot over our head and drop bucks less than a 200 yards away from us. Had guys looking at us through their scope. Watched one of my favorite areas as a kid get shot out in a weekend because of too many tags.

Preceotion is reality and id take one front hunt over 5 rifle hunts.

I want to hunt with a rifle but dont want it the way it is. Im hoping the 18-20 ratio will cut enough orange out for me to want to start packing a rifle again. Im getting to old to hit the hills with a bow like i have in the past.


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> Throw deer in Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, and Colorado.
> 
> Hunting deer with rifles in Utah would probably be an after thought unless things change for the better. Right now the general areas suck and are hardly worth the gas money to hunt them!


As you're headed to the Idaho general season hunt, I will wave to you on my way to Utah. It floors me when people think the general deer hunting in Idaho is better than Utah. Take it from someone who applies and hunts in multiple states...There is no worse place that I know of than Idaho! Idaho is hands down the most mismanaged state in the west.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Perception is reality isn't it. I have a friend who hunts idaho every year and shoots two deer. Heck everyone in his family shoots two deer. Been doing it for 10 years.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> Perception is reality isn't it. I have a friend who hunts idaho every year and shoots two deer. Heck everyone in his family shoots two deer. Been doing it for 10 years.


That can't be good for the herd.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

IDHunter said:


> As you're headed to the Idaho general season hunt, I will wave to you on my way to Utah. It floors me when people think the general deer hunting in Idaho is better than Utah. Take it from someone who applies and hunts in multiple states...There is no worse place that I know of than Idaho! Idaho is hands down the most mismanaged state in the west.


+1...I refuse to give Idaho my money.


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> Perception is reality isn't it. I have a friend who hunts idaho every year and shoots two deer. Heck everyone in his family shoots two deer. Been doing it for 10 years.


I'm trying to figure out why that's a good thing? Again...mismanaged!

I hunt both Utah and Idaho every year. The general season quality in Utah is far superior to Idaho.

You're exactly right about perception.


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Perception is reality isn't it. I have a friend who hunts idaho every year and shoots two deer. Heck everyone in his family shoots two deer. Been doing it for 10 years.
> ...


That's the Idaho mentality. If it moves...shoot. It's a shame too, because Idaho was an incredible place to hunt 15 years ago.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

I hate Idaho, I hate shooting two mature bucks every year for 30+ days on the same tag (yes I am a non-resident), I really hate hunting any-bull archery elk for the entire month of september......its a horrible state  

Lets talk about prices up there too.....residents really get screwed.....I cant imagine paying 100.00 to hunt Deer, Elk, Bear, Mountain Lion, Birds, Turkey, Salmon and my fishing licence, its a real screw over up there. 

The worse is the youth, can you believe as a non-resident they make ya pay 23.00 for a deer tag, 23.00!!!....can you believe that?? They dont even supply vaseline!! Plus they make you buy a cow elk tag over the counter!! What the hell!! REAL States like Utah make you apply for ten years to hunt a cow elk!

What a horrible state Idaho is, they should be more like Utah and manage for opportunity!! Who gives a **** about size of horns, Im there for a family get together and to sing songs around the campfire and stuff, its more about just getting out...its the **** horn guys that are ruining this sport....grandpa never cared about horn size!! My brother and me love sneaking up on a 100 pound two point with the four wheeler...oh wait, I mean mini-van, Idaho doesnt allow me to hunt on the four wheeler.....another reason I hate that **** state......


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

In all seriousness, most of the comparisons are like comparing apples to soccer balls thanks to the population of Utah, amount of habitat, etc....

Saying Utah is better than Idaho though.....your nuts, and you can have Utah.......


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

LOL
You tell'em those are the exact reasons i hate the state.


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> I hate Idaho, I hate shooting two mature bucks every year for 30+ days on the same tag (yes I am a non-resident), I really hate hunting any-bull archery elk for the entire month of september......its a horrible state
> 
> Lets talk about prices up there too.....residents really get screwed.....I cant imagine paying 100.00 to hunt Deer, Elk, Bear, Mountain Lion, Birds, Turkey, Salmon and my fishing licence, its a real screw over up there.
> 
> ...


You're right about a lot of what you're saying. There is a ton more opportunity for different species in Idaho. The resident prices are incredible as well.

But, that's not what this thread is about. I thought we were talking about deer hunting?

My entire point is that the Utah deer hunt is not as bad as most of you make it out to be. You're dreaming if you think the general season mule deer hunt in Utah is so much worse than all of the surrounding states. If you want to shoot a mature buck every year, for 30+ days on the same tag? You can do that in Utah. If you want to sneak up on a 100 lb two point in a minivan, or four wheeler? You can do that too. There is opportunity in Utah for the hunt you want. For both quality and opportunity, I still wouldn't hesitate to take a general season Utah deer tag over a general season Idaho deer tag.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

I have never hunted archery (hunting buddies have no interest) so I don't know how crowded the archery GS is in most areas. My good friend who hunts archery in multiple places up North here swore he was done bow hunting last Fall with the "hords of new hunters flocking to the hunt".

Bash on general season rifle hunting all you want. I hunt in lots of diffrent places and rarley cross paths with another hunter. I see them on occasion glassing. On a few occations that I have had chances at nice bucks it was because of another hunter in the area pushing deer out of cover. Go to Idaho if you want but manage Utah for the maximum number of GS deer tags possible while still maintaining healthy deer herds.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

10000ft. said:


> I have never hunted archery (hunting buddies have no interest) so I don't know how crowded the archery GS is in most areas. My good friend who hunts archery in multiple places up North here swore he was done bow hunting last Fall with the "hords of new hunters flocking to the hunt".
> Its not you have 20,000 rifle tags in one region the way it was before option 2. We have 15,000-16,000 archery tags in the whole state of Utah.
> 
> 
> Bash on general season rifle hunting all you want. I hunt in lots of different places and rarley cross paths with another hunter. Bahahahahaha I see them on occasion glassing. Bahahahahaha On a few occations that I have had chances at nice bucks it was because of another hunter in the area pushing deer out of cover. Go to Idaho if you want but manage Utah for the maximum number of GS deer tags possible while still maintaining healthy deer herds.


Yes manage for the maximum number of GS deer tag possible while maintaining a health 18-20 ratio. Ill be a happy happy happy rifle hunter. -8/-


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

10000ft. said:


> I have never hunted archery (hunting buddies have no interest) so I don't know how crowded the archery GS is in most areas. My good friend who hunts archery in multiple places up North here swore he was done bow hunting last Fall with the "hords of new hunters flocking to the hunt".
> 
> Bash on general season rifle hunting all you want. I hunt in lots of diffrent places and rarley cross paths with another hunter. I see them on occasion glassing. On a few occations that I have had chances at nice bucks it was because of another hunter in the area pushing deer out of cover. Go to Idaho if you want but manage Utah for the maximum number of GS deer tags possible while still maintaining healthy deer herds.


Bingo!!

It simply doesn't matter to some folks how many people they actually encounter, whether up close and personal, on the road, a half mile away, in the trailhead parking lot or whatever the stranger's outdoor activity, it's "perceived" as "overcrowded" and we need to cut more tags. For 28 days, spread 16,000 or 17,000 archers over Utah's 45,619 sq. mi. of public accessible deer habitat (29,196,160 acres), whether you allow them to disperse by themselves or whether you regulate them in 30 General units and 9 Limited Entry units, it's still overcrowded. And forget the 86,000 member 9 day pumpkin patch.
In other words, we need to have fewer than 16,000 deer hunters during ANY deer hunting season in order to make it "fair". Let's get on with it! -O|o-


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

ntrl_brn_rebel since the discussion here applies primarily to Utah residents and mule deer, lets keep the focus there. Historically, Idaho offered some great deer hunting, but they have increased their NR fees substantially all the while their deer herds have become some the least appealing in the west. 

From a cost standpoint they are one of the most expensive states in the west to hunt for mule deer as a non resident. 

Idaho - $456.50 ($125.75 license + $301.75 deer tag)
Colorado - $361 ($10 habitat stamp + $351 deer tag)
Wyoming - $312
Nevada - $442 ($142 license + $300 deer tag)
New Mexico - $355 ($65 license + $290 deer tag)
Arizona - $384 (151.25 license + 232.75 deer tag)
Montana - $570

All things considered, Utah has a pretty good GS. I hear guys hammering the rifle season, but the fact is it's no worse here than anywhere else. In many other states it coincides with other hunts as well putting more hunters in the field. The opener can sometimes be a little more congested, but even then I've rarely find myself competing for a spot with another hunter. After that we usually have the mountain to ourselves.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Yep - opening day can suck, but if you know where the pressure is and what the animals do when pressured, it can be very productive. Come Sunday morning though, the hordes are usually gone and you can basically have the mountain to yourself for the next 4-5 days before the 2nd weekend crowds begin to show up.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

ridgetop said:


> Why is there such a big demand to hunt LE deer units?
> But I believe so many people wouldn't be putting in for these LE hunts if they weren't satisfied with their general hunting experiences.
> This is why many people do support tag cuts when proposed.


Obviously there are lots of different reasons why people hunt them.

For me personally I put in for LE hunts because they are there and I can. Of course the LE hunts are nice for lots of reasons and I do enjoy those hunts. I enjoy hunting LE units but for me personally the sacrifice to hunt less often isn't worth the trade off. For me the chance to get out and hunt is more important to me so the general hunts are near and dear to to me. Trying to draw and LE tag is extremely frustrating while you wait 5 - 20 years to go hunt and then add your waiting period and point creep after the first time you draw. They are just about once in a lifetime per species unless you archery hunt and always choose a less popular unit.

I don't look at LE hunts as "better", I look at them as a different type of hunt. Kind of like the different between Rocky Road and Cookies and Cream Ice cream. Each has pro's and con's.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> Lonetree said:
> 
> 
> > How much did the deer you shot last year weigh? Most of your fathers and grandfathers could tell you, what everyone they shot weighed, I know mine could.
> ...


Dusten, I don't think you could be further off track. You seem like a good guy but your really off track. You said: "everybody doesn't eat the meat when they shoot a big buck"
Really! I don't even know one person. 
Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, people were very proud to show off there big buck they took. There were several different big buck contest that thousands of people entered.
People in the past always talked about the width and number off points the buck had.
Now, we are taught to hide our deer under a tarp so nobody can see it. So they don't get offended. This was even preached by Doug Miller a few years ago.
I will always be proud of what I kill, no matter the size.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Ironic,
Back in the 60's and 70's when I started as a young boy in our deer camps,
Weight , deer body size was everything!!!!!!

Just so happens they were THE BIGGEST ANTLERED DEER :shock: 

NO one in, or around our deer camp shot yearling deer, too small 'body' wise.

Plus, we were just a bunch of farmers, Knew how to carry over net years crop  

In all my years in deer camps from 1965-79, I NEVER saw a dead 2 point in our
camp!!!!! Quite a few big ones though .....


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Ironic,
> Back in the 60's and 70's when I started as a young boy in our deer camps,
> Weight , deer body size was everything!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Well that obviously explains a couple reasons you have the mindset you do goofy. I hunted back in the 60's and 70's as well. More camps than I can remember had bucks of ALL sizes and antler points, with LOTS of spikes, two and three points in virtually every single camp; lots of doe as well. Body weight was touted, but lots and lots of guys talked points and width, even on the smaller bodied bucks that carried huge racks, so it wasn't 'everything' where we roamed. Different strokes.... As far as next years crop, the division was in the process of trying to reduce the "crop" as they had started to realize the landscape was in trouble and it wouldn't carry that many deer for much longer. Seems they were right.

As far as LE hunts, I wouldn't know much about that, really. I hunted my share of X zones in Cali back in the day, but the experience was no different than hunting the D zones where mulies were located, other than hunter numbers. Guess it's different here in Utah. I have put in for the Books since I got back, but only because I remember hunting it decades ago and it was a fun hunt with pops. Would like to experience it again before I croak, but doubt that will happen...but maybe! -)O(- In talking to a lot of hunters, the majority put in for LE deer cause of the sheer number of bucks on the unit, and knowing how much easier it would be to see the more mature ones. Like I said before, different strokes...


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

"Why hunt LE deer units?"

-Bigger Bucks
-More Bucks
-Less Pressure


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Dusten, I don't think you could be further off track. You seem like a good guy but your really off track. You said: "everybody doesn't eat the meat when they shoot a big buck"
Really! I don't even know one person. Yes really. i pick up deer meat left over at clays ever year. One year I picked up some and on the tag was a guy name two times. So he shot two deer off a cwmu unite and did not pick up his deer.So that tell me he just wantc to shoot big deer and dont care about the meet.Maybe not ever one is like that. but I know many other people that shoot big deer and dont want the meat.
I will always be proud of what I kill, no matter the size.[/quote] Me to I showed off my little 1x2 that i killed. if people dont want to see what i got then dont look in the back of my truck.


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