# IllUssions



## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Utah looked horrible last night. I thought Boise looked pretty bad too. The score is no indicator of how bad this beat down could have been. Boise didn't prepare for the Utes they used 9 of the alloted 15 days for practice. You could see it in Boise's play, yet they still win by 23 points. Utah was definitely over-rated and over-ranked this year.

It's probably a good thing the PAC10 criteria for bringing the U into the conference is for academics and research and not because the football program is a powerhouse.

Hopefully, for Utah's sake, Colorado football continues to be pathetic to keep the U from being the actual bottomfeeder in the PAC next year.

Going from number 5 in the country to not being ranked is a big time tank job. I'm thinking it should be Utah asking all the offensive staff to update their resumes and look for other employment. Maybe Utah will pick up Robert Anae...they've picked up several of their coaches from the Y including the head coach. What do you think--Anae I good fit?


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok... here goes. Utah did play like crap, but they had several drops and penalties that kept them from being close in this one, otherwise it doesn't wind up 26-3. In fact, Utah could have easily been up a couple touchdowns if it wasn't for stupid mistakes like allowing a receiver to become ineligible by being covered on the line of scrimmage. Mentally, they bit the dust after the first quarter and thats why the game appeared to be a runaway but Boise made just as many mistakes, at least early on. Would Utah have won the game? No, but I seriously doubt that the practice time spent by either team was the issue. I'm sure they did what they felt was necessary to play the game sucessfully. One team pulled it together and executed when necessary and the other wasn't able to capitalize on their execution. Utah deserved to lose and Boise State is clearly the better team at this point in their seasons and would have been better served playing stiffer competition. Utah had a rough time against decent competition all year so playing somebody as high quality as BSU, this wasn't unexpected. 

As far as next year goes.... they won't be the bottom feeder. They won't run the conference, not even close, but they'll beat some of the crappier teams. ASU, UCLA and probably Washington without Jake Locker are games I could see Utah rolling in against conference opponents.

Academics and research were two of several reasons the Utes got recruited. I know its fun to say otherwise... but its untrue. I don't honestly think that anyone would be seeking out BYU at this point for "powerhouse" football either... in fact, I'd guess that admitted or not, going with your line of thought, its probably the reason they DIDN'T get an invite from an elite conference to join up. The Big 10/12/whater it is now might take a look in the future, but hey, like you said, every conference needs a bottom feeder. 8) 

Thanks to BYU for showing us all how quickly an unjustified team can fall from grace... they've done a spectacular job of that same thing long before it happened to the Utes. I didn't think BYU fans would be touting this as another example of big brother showing the Utes how it's done... but whatever works I guess.  

Perhaps the Y should work on keeping their winning coaches around instead of letting them leave for better programs.... don't know, just a suggestion.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

What about Texas? I believe they were ranked higher than Utah and didn't even make a bowl game. 
Utah I thought did well for the first quarter and thought they would of made it a game. A 10 win season is still a good season no matter how you get those 10 wins. 
I do believe they will have a hard time in the pac 12, a 6-6 season is probably what they will get for a while at least until they can get a QB thats any good.
Their still better than WSU, Washington, Cal maybe ASU and CU but any of those teams can turn around in one season.
It will be intresting to see what they do and I hope they do good.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

What? So a 10 win season is a good season no matter how you get it if it's Utah, yet when BYU does it for 4 or 5 years in a row, they get blasted for their schedule's weekness. Ha! 

And yes, I think Utah and Texas choked big time. To be ranked in the top 5 and then tumble that bad is big time choking so if it makes you feel better to look around at other teams and say, "What about them" and do the finger pointing to make yourself feel better I guess that's one way to justify a downfall. 

On a positive spin, all the PAC 12 schools are great research institutions.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

I think the Utes 2010 season is eerily similar to the Cougars 2008 season (otherwise known as "The Quest"). Both teams racked up wins early on against weak competition, but then got exposed later in the season when they finally faced good teams. It is interesting that in both cases it was the same team, TCU, who was the first to expose them. Both teams eventually made it to the Vegas Bowl but then lost, ending the season with 10-3 records. I guess you have to give the Utes credit for losing to a top 10 team in Boise State. BYU lost to Arizona in the 2008 Vegas Bowl who was not even ranked. Still, both teams played extremely poorly in their respective bowls and did not represent themselves well at all, and Utah lost to an unranked team this season as well in Notre Dame.

I think next year Utah is in for a season similar to what BYU went through this season after losing so many of their play makers on offense (Hall, Pitta, Unga, George). Utah is losing Asiata, Wide, Brooks, Smithson and most of their O-line. They may even have their own QB controversy judging by the way Wynn struggled towards the end of this season and was booed by his own fans. I think Utah will struggle to get 6 wins next year in their Pac 12 debut.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

mm73

I think your post points out that very good MWC teams playing 500 or lower PAC teams still struggle. That is one reason I fear for the Utah program next year. These PAC teams are big and fast and even the lower end teams are going to give Utah a game, just like Arizona did to the Y in 2008.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

HighNDry said:


> What? So a 10 win season is a good season no matter how you get it if it's Utah, yet when BYU does it for 4 or 5 years in a row, they get blasted for their schedule's weekness. Ha!
> 
> And yes, I think Utah and Texas choked big time. To be ranked in the top 5 and then tumble that bad is big time choking so if it makes you feel better to look around at other teams and say, "What about them" and do the finger pointing to make yourself feel better I guess that's one way to justify a downfall.
> 
> On a positive spin, all the PAC 12 schools are great research institutions.


I never said anything about BYU, I am not a fan of either school. I'm not trying to justify anything about Utah. They were highly overanked. I just pointed out that Texas also had a bad season, worse than Utah. 
You can't say that if BYU had won 10 games this year they had a bad year.


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## Dwight Schrutester (Dec 3, 2007)

I am not worried about Utah in the PAC-12. Utah will have its growing pains at first, but recruiting will improve. The competition in the PAC is down right now anyways, so Utah is coming in at a good time. 

I am not happy about the way Utah played against TCU and BSU, but still, Utah's fall from #5 to unranked came MOSTLY from losing to two top 10 teams.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Dwight Schrutester said:


> I am not happy about the way Utah played against TCU and BSU, but still, Utah's fall from #5 to unranked came MOSTLY from losing to two top 10 teams.


Add in an ugly loss to ND, a close win against SDSU, and bareky beating a so-so BYU team.........


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## Dwight Schrutester (Dec 3, 2007)

I understand that part of the BCS is style points, and Utah certainly did not help themselves out as much as they could have with the way they played SDSU and BYU, and of course by losing to ND. However, Utah did not drop in the rankings with those close wins over SDSU and BYU, Utah just didn't improve its ranking as much as it could have if those two games would have been blow-outs. Regardless of the close wins, Utah's downfall in the rankings was MOSTLY the result of losing to two top ten teams.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Dwight Schrutester said:


> I am not worried about Utah in the PAC-12. Utah will have its growing pains at first, but recruiting will improve. The competition in the PAC is down right now anyways, so Utah is coming in at a good time.
> 
> I am not happy about the way Utah played against TCU and BSU, but still, Utah's fall from #5 to unranked came MOSTLY from losing to two top 10 teams.


Ute fans are always saying, "The competition in the PAC is down right now anyways, so Utah is coming in at a good time." Wouldn't you want Utah to go in when the conference is at its best so you can measure where the U program really is. All the hype about being as good as any program in the country, and beating Alabama, and being the original BSC buster, and give us our respect, and lets have a playoff system, we can beat the best sure seems to have diminished. So if Utah goes in while the PAC is down and wins a few games does that somehow make them good? Isn't that kind of like BYU scheduling a bunch of WAC teams and winning and then claiming they are good?

And if Arizona, Arizona State, and some of the other less than steller teams in the PAC struggle, what makes you think Utah will be any better in a few years? They will have the same opportunity to recruit and the supposed money to make the program better, if this is the case why are the PAC teams still struggling?

I think many of the UTE fans have visions of grandeur.


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## Dwight Schrutester (Dec 3, 2007)

> Ute fans are always saying, "The competition in the PAC is down right now anyways, so Utah is coming in at a good time." Wouldn't you want Utah to go in when the conference is at its best so you can measure where the U program really is.


I already know where the U program is. It is a program that has proven it can build a team (not every year of course) that can compete with the best in the country (2 BCS Bowl Wins). Do I think Utah is good enough to be in the PAC?--Yes. Do I think Utah is going to dominate the PAC from the beginning, even in a down year?--No. "Coming in at a good time" = a realistic perspective that Utah can compete in the PAC, but is not _consistently_ at the PAC level yet. "Coming in at a good time" = a greater opportunity for Utah to improve as the competition returns within the PAC.



> All the hype about being as good as any program in the country At times the U program is, at times the U program isn't.,
> and beating Alabama They did.,
> and being the original BSC buster They are.,
> and give us our respect Two undefeated seasons and two BCS bowl wins warrants respect.,
> ...





> So if Utah goes in while the PAC is down and wins a few games does that somehow make them good?


No. Who is saying that it would?



> And if Arizona, Arizona State, and some of the other less than steller teams in the PAC struggle, what makes you think Utah will be any better in a few years?


What makes you think they won't be? Just because ASU and others haven't succeeded that means Utah won't? After seeing what Utah has accomplished in the MWC why wouldn't I think Utah will improve in the PAC with more resources and exposure? Why wouldn't I be optimistic? Maybe I am wrong and maybe I am right, only time will tell with this one.



> I think many of the UTE fans have visions of grandeur.


So what? After going undefeated twice and not getting a shot at the NC, you are going to fault some Utah fans for their enthusiasm about being in an AQ conference and having a real shot to play in the NC game if Utah has a great season? Really?


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Hahahahaha. Next season will be the real eye-opener. Look at what TCU has done to the Utes the last two seasons. Look at what Boise did in the bowl this year, and I thought Boise played their worst game of the year. The first BSC game shouldn't count. I mean come-on, puff your chest out after beating a mediocre Pitt team that many thought shouldn't be playing a bowl game that year. You don't get it do you? Beating these "easy" teams and then hanging your hat on it is telling. Being ranked and rubbing it in on everyone all year and then crashing and burning is more telling. I didn't see much enthusiasm from the Utah Fans the last 6 games of the season. I'd be a little nervous going into the PAC and maybe a little humbled after puffing my chest when I was ranked 5 in the country and then nosediving to unranked status. See what I mean about "visions of grandeur?"


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> Hahahahaha. Next season will be the real eye-opener. Look at what TCU has done to the Utes the last two seasons. Look at what Boise did in the bowl this year, and I thought Boise played their worst game of the year. Mostly because of Utah's defense The first BSC game shouldn't count. I mean come-on, puff your chest out after beating a mediocre Pitt team that many thought shouldn't be playing a bowl game that year. You BYU fans are still pumping your chest by beating a worse team for the national championship, you stop and we will also. :mrgreen:  You don't get it do you? Beating these "easy" teams and then hanging your hat on it is telling. Being ranked and rubbing it in on everyone all year and then crashing and burning is more telling. I didn't see much enthusiasm from the Utah Fans the last 6 games of the season. I'd be a little nervous going into the PAC and maybe a little humbled after puffing my chest when I was ranked 5 in the country and then nosediving to unranked status. See what I mean about "visions of grandeur?"


Here is a reality check for you. Boise State had been to two BCS games and won both, Utah the same. How many other non AQ teams have won a BCS game, NONE. So the only two non AQ teams that have won BCS games played and the better team won. Boise State was talking potetial NC game if things fell right, I still think they are one of the top five teams in the country, I think Utah if around 25-30 in the country. Utah WAS over-rated the first part of the season, I will admit that. I am nervous about next year because their offense has not had a good game in a long time. Utah's defense will be fine, it is the offense that I am worried about. Utah will be just fine in the PAC-12.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Are you sure it was Utah's defense that played so well, or the fact that Boise State only practiced 9 out of the alloted 15 that the NCAA gave them before the game? Boise State has owned the U over the years. I think BS approached the game the same as Alabama and figured it was a cakewalk. 

As for the 84 championship season, you take what is given to you under those circumstances. BYU had been pounding people year after year after year, yes all they were beating were teams like Utah, the bottom feeders, but they were beating them like 60 to 10. A lot of the respect for Utah started to come when they were finally able to beat BYU through some of those years. I'm sure if Utah would have been handed a NC trophy they would have given it back and said no thanks we don't deserve it. They seem to be that classy.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> Are you sure it was Utah's defense that played so well, or the fact that Boise State only practiced 9 out of the alloted 15 that the NCAA gave them before the game? Boise State has owned the U over the years. I think BS approached the game the same as Alabama and figured it was a cakewalk.
> 
> As for the 84 championship season, you take what is given to you under those circumstances. BYU had been pounding people year after year after year, yes all they were beating were teams like Utah, the bottom feeders, but they were beating them like 60 to 10. A lot of the respect for Utah started to come when they were finally able to beat BYU through some of those years. I'm sure if Utah would have been handed a NC trophy they would have given it back and said no thanks we don't deserve it. They seem to be that classy.


gotta love bitter Y fans... and -O|o- -O|o- -O|o- -O|o- pot stirrers...

Really we are rehashing this argument? Both teams have had their moments in the sun, just recently the Utes have had more of them. I for one hope the Y hooks up with a major conference in the next couple of years it will help the Utes SOS. Easy to sum up the Utes where overrated this year big time it was exposed at the end of the year. BYU stumbled and came on strong at the end of the year wish they would have had some type of competition in the bowl game but it was not to be. Even Y fan hopefully can give credit to the Utes for BCS busting 2x and convincing wins in both games. The Y won a national championship in a different era so hard to compare. Lets all root for TCU to murder WI in the BCS game!


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Not bitter, I actually have a smile on my face when I type those things. Stirring only. I will give Utah props for the 2 BCS bowls. I think they put a poor pitt team that shouldn't have been in a bowl game in the first one so they could say, "see you go undefeated all year but when you play a half decent team you lose". Utah won and so the next time they get to a BCS game they try to throw Alabama at them to finally show them they don't belong and Utah still wins and really showed the BCS the flaw in their system. So, yes, Utah deserves some recognition. You've also got to give the U credit for beating Air Force and San Diego State this year. And how they let such a poor BYU team take them to end of the rivalry, I'll never know. Hopefully, they can stay in a few games in the PAC next year and at least look like they can provide some competition.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

The first time the Utes went to the BCS was in 2004. Where were they before that? Basically where they had been for the previous 15 years (mediocrity at best). Urban Meyer put together a good team in his limited time at the U. The team has since benefited from that success, and built upon it. It took 3 more seasons of getting beat up to put together another BCS quality team, and in 2008, they were right back where they were in 2004, this time against a quality opponent in Alabama, instead of a "cupcake" like Pitt. We all know how that went. Am I surprised that in the 2 seasons since they haven't been back? NO. But they have had decent seasons. BUILDING on the previous success is the name of the game. You can't and won't win it all every year. Ask Urban Meyer and Nick Saban; they'll tell you the same. The best they have done is repeat, and that's not intended to downplay their success, because what they have done is awesome. 

Start looking at the big picture, folks! While the Utes haven't been perennial BCS busters, they have continued to build on their original success. The invitation to the PAC 12 is just another step on the road to greatness...another step towards becoming like the Alabamas, Floridas, USCs, Texases and Ohio States. Every program had to start somewhere, even the "Powerhouse" teams of today! Do I think the Utes will be there next year? ABSOLUTELY NOT. 2 years? No. 5? Maybe they'll get to an NC. 10 years? Perhaps they bring home a title. Maybe they don't. Who knows?! But they have to start somewhere, and if you ask me, they're on the right track!


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