# My muzzle loader set up



## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

I just returned from the Cabela's store that is in my home town. By the way, do you have one in your home town?  Any way I mentioned many of the things that I have read on the forum and they told me that you are all really nice guys but to leave it up to the proffesionals.  Seriously, I spoke with many knowledgable people including those who worked there and those who didn't. I finally decided to NOT go with the 150 grain charges. I went with "tripple seven mangnums" They are supposed to be HOT. They have only been out for about 3 weeks at Cabela's. They said that I could shoot three pellets but didn't need to. I stayed with the 295 grain power belts which I have loved. I got the 209 primers from Winchester and again in the Triple seven. I am shooting a Remington muzzle and I think that I am set. Does any one think that I am crazy? If you do then I need substantial evidence and not just mean thoughts. :lol:


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

That will work. How does it shoot?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I do not use pellets or do I plan on using them, but what are "triple seven magnums" ?
and what would the benefits be with them. We all know most charges over 100 Gr's the powder is not all burned.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> They said that I could shoot three pellets but didn't need to. :lol:


Now if this is not an understament then what is? I could of had a V8 but went with a diesel engine instead.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Modern ML rifles will shoot 150 grains of powder. That does not mean that you have to so evev should shoot that max load.
If you need to push a heavy bullet a long distance, a max load will do it. The problem is accuracy. The more powder you use, the less accurate the shot.
This isn't always the cast, but it is most of the time.
If you are shooting open sights, you should not need a max charge.
Open sight shooting is best at under 100 yards.
I don't like the pellets, because your best load may fall somewhere between the second and third pellet. What I mean is, if your gun shoots best with 110 grains of powder, you will not have that option with pellets.
For field shooting, pellets are fast and will do the job, but they arn't my first choice.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I agree with Gramps. Loose powder allows you to be the one to decide what works best in your rifle. I don't use synthetic powders either, plain old black powder for me. I don't mind the mess with the cleanup and I don't find a problem with fouling.

I have never shot a sabot but lots of folks do and that's ok...whatever brings home the game and makes a clean kill.

Another thing I've learned about most (if not all) of the synthetics is they are prone to attract moisture. This is why a lot of folks have trouble using that powder in conventional muzzleloaders and it is why the inlines were born. "Get that powder and the primer out of the elements". 

After shooting a few thousand rounds you will find that even a 5 grain difference in your rifles' "formula" will make a big difference in how you group your shots. Good luck with whatever you do and remember...Those guys working for Cabelas is trying to sell you the stuff Cabelas sells. I don't claim to know everything about muzzleloading, but I think my 33 years of shooting nothing else has caused a little knowledge to rub off.


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## Matt B (Sep 10, 2007)

If this is the same Bears Butt that was shooting at Blacksmith fork, I bet it is. Folks there were calling his name or his groups name a lot for winning the shooting contest's. I would think he might know what he is talking about.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

One and the same MattB. It was just a lucky rendezvous for me this year. Some years my eyes can see, some years my eyes aint so good.


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

NHS said:


> That will work. How does it shoot?


I don't know yet. Just got it and am excited to try it out.



sagebrush said:


> I do not use pellets or do I plan on using them, but what are "triple seven magnums" ?
> and what would the benefits be with them. We all know most charges over 100 Gr's the powder is not all burned.


They say that they burn much hotter and cleaner. That would be the biggest benifits. You don't lose as much accuracy between cleanings and they don't need as much charge to get the same fps. They say on the box, "2,000+fps". That is for 50 caliber in line, 209 primers. They also have no rotten egg smell. The guy that I talked to was near 50 years old and said that all he shoots is muzzle loaders. He is the one that told me about this charge and said that it is the best. He also argued the fact about loose powder burning hotter or more consistant than the pellets. He argued that pelets have more consistancy with being pre formed. He has measured 100 grains and then weighed it. He had a much bigger non consistancy in the weight with measured loose powder than the pellets that are pre formed. They all weigh much closer to each other. His words, "that makes for better accuracy".



sagebrush said:


> elk22hunter said:
> 
> 
> > They said that I could shoot three pellets but didn't need to. :lol:
> ...


The thought is that "yeah you could use 3 pellets but you arent going to gain enough energy to make much difference and am going to be throwing unneeded money out the barrel." These are supposed to be Hotter than anything previously and you don't NEED three.

Lets use your analogy. First I need to know if when speaking of V8 are you meaning the traditional kind of just vegtables or the new kind that has some fruit mixed in.  
My dodge pickem up truck has an edge juice with an attitude chip. I have never wanted for more power. I pull horses, boats, bobcat skidloaders or what ever. I don't need ANY more power. I unhooked my chip a few days ago and tried it with out. I am very impressed with the power of my truck when it is stock. I for the most part don't need any more power. Now on occassion, (pulling the top of parley's and loaded) it might help to have a "bit" more but for the 99.9% of the time it's not needed. Bottom line, both might be throwing money away that is not needed. Now go drink a V8. It's good for you. 

Don't get me wrong. I am not arguing any points here. I am simply stating what I have heard and what makes sense to me. I am listening to your oppinions.


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## JedInUtah (Sep 10, 2007)

I shoot both setups with the same 295gr. powerbelt bullet that you talk about and here are the ballistic specs. straight from their website.......seems like a big enough difference to me to know whether 150 or 100 shoots better in your gun.......i have always shot 150 gr. and it works well for me but will actually shoot 100 gr. this year.
100grains of Powder
Distance 100 yds. Velocity-1321fps Energy-1143ft/lbs 
Distance 150 yds. Velocity-1188fps Energy-925ft/lbs

150grains of Powder
Distance 100 yds. Velocity-1567fps Energy-1609ft/lbs
Distance 150 yds. Velocity-1393fps Energy-1271ft/lbs

So 1609 ft/lbs with 150gr. of powder vs the 1143ft/lbs does seem like quite a difference. Keep in mind that the difference for DEER probably isn't going to be all that noticeable to the deer. ITS DEAD! It will make a difference to your arm.......does to mine, and that is why I am backing down to the 100gr. this year. Also to save some money in pellets while practicing. Also keep in mind that when using pellets, you HAVE to use a 209 to get full ignition. I don't say you have to go one way or the other......I have done both obviously but there is a noticeable difference with 150 vs. 100 when you get to elk you might want that difference!


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Ill bet most people on here wouldnt recommend using 150 grains of powder. 80-100 grains is just fine. Ive never heard of the "magnums" before. I wonder if they are any better.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

elk22hunter if I'm 50yrs old would I get the same respect as the other gentleman. I do not really care if you shoot the pellets, as for the rotten egg smell. I have not really noticed it while out hunting after shooting. I then do not see any benefit from this. the same goes for recoil it is something that is not on your mind at the time.

BTW I'm over 50 yrs. :wink:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

elk22hunter said:


> I just returned from the Cabela's store that is in my home town. By the way, do you have one in your home town?  Any way I mentioned many of the things that I have read on the forum and they told me that you are all really nice guys but to leave it up to the proffesionals.  Seriously, I spoke with many knowledgable people including those who worked there and those who didn't. I finally decided to NOT go with the 150 grain charges. I went with "tripple seven mangnums" They are supposed to be HOT. They have only been out for about 3 weeks at Cabela's. They said that I could shoot three pellets but didn't need to. I stayed with the 295 grain power belts which I have loved. I got the 209 primers from Winchester and again in the Triple seven. I am shooting a Remington muzzle and I think that I am set. Does any one think that I am crazy? If you do then I need substantial evidence and not just mean thoughts. :lol:


 If you can hit it, your rig will kill it. :wink: How does it shoot?


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, I shot 27 rounds yesterday afternoon. The Tripple Seven magnums seemed to work great. I wasn't near as impressed with the Tripple seven Primers. I was having MANY hangfires and delays. I switched to my old Winchester primers and didn't have any problems again. The guy with me shot his Tripple Seven Primers with out a problem. I may have got a bad batch. 

Bottom line at 100 yards I couldn't tell a difference between the 150 grains of pellets vs. the 100 except how hard it hit me. At 200, I dropped 12-16 inches below bullseye with 100 grains of powder and a 295 grain power belt. With the 150 grain, I was dropping about half of that but seemed to be a bit more sparatic on my accuracy. I think that I am going to go with 100 grains and just know where I am hitting and adjust as needed. It just seemed more true and consistant.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Your 150 load was probably blowing the 50 grains out the barrel without it being burned.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> We all know most charges over 100 Gr's the powder is not all burned.


Exactly, that is why everyone should dump 209 primers--not my $0.02 but that of many pros. There is a very simple solution to get a slower primer that will burn all powder to have a much more consistent shot by burning all of teh powder--Cabelas has teh Variflame primers to be used with small pistol/rifle primers that make all the powder burn rather than push it all out the barrel before full combustion-very simple solution that is much better than the 209's--not too late to switch; very simple conversion. Nothing to adjust, just tighter groups.


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## 4pointmuley (Sep 18, 2007)

I am new to muzzleloading. I have a T/C Black Diamond XR in the .50 caliber. Does anyone have this gun? I am using a Triple Seven 209 primer, 100 grains of pyrodex pellets, with a power belt 295 grain aerotip bullet. It shoots okay, as long as I keep the gun clean after five shots, but it's hard to hold a good group. Does anyone have a better load to produce tighter groups?


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

start out with 80 grains and see what happens, work up at 5 grains intervals to get your desired results. I use 80 grains myself. and can hit a 5" circle all day.


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## Extex (Sep 11, 2007)

Veinte Dos - I have noticed that the 777 primers are slightly larger than the standard 209's. I don't know if it is a diameter/seating issue or if they are just longer. I do know that when closing the breech on my Omega and Triumph - they are much tighter to get closed than with a standard 209. Your remington may not like them. I **** near can not get the Triumph to close without some muscle :lol:

4pt - my TC's like the 250 gr or 300 gr shockwaves better than powerbelts with pyro pellets although the 348 PB shoot good. Hornady SST ml is the same bullet as the shock wave - a little cheaper.


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