# Sleeping bag ratings.



## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I have a sleeping bag that is rated for 32 degrees. Looking at the weather forecast for where I will be hunting I am observing predictions for nights closer to 0 degrees. My question is. What can be done to increase the capacity of a light weight sleeping bag rather than purchasing a heavier sleeping bag... 

I guess sleeping with clothes on should not really make a very noticeable difference. Does anyone have any tricks? I am thinking about maybe having a small fire to warm up some rocks and maybe snuggling up to those rocks but I know that type of heat will not really last. I can stuff the bag and also sleep under my pack as well. I am planning on hiking in a long long ways. 

I would welcome any input. 

Thanks.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Fleece blanket liner. Make sure you are off the ground too.

PS: a 32 degree bag isnt very much. I have 0 degree rated bags that are cold well above that. My boy had a 0 degree bag for one fall scout camping trip, nearly froze to death... now he hauls a -40 bag with him and loves it.


-DallanC


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## bekins24 (Sep 22, 2015)

Ditto to what Dallan said. A fleece liner will go a long ways. And if you can get some insulation between you and the ground it makes a huge difference. Wearing a beanie, or pulling the hood up on your hoodie while you sleep will also help with the heat loss throughout the night.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Also depends on the individual, I tend to sleep warm and only carry a 30 degree Slumberjack bag during elk season. Even at home we keep our house at 68 in the winter and I sleep under a thin wool blanket most of the time.

As for adding to your existing bag, you can add a fleece liner as mentioned or a bivy sack to the outside.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Put a "Hot Hands" body warmer at the bottom of your bag for you feet and one by your chest. If you can get a hold of a 3-4" thick piece of memory foam, that will do wonders for keeping you warm.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I've come to swear by 0 degree bags regardless of the season. You can get a decent one for around $60 but it may be more than you want to pack along ways.

I now also pack a Uhaul moving blanket to use as a liner or to wrap around the outside for extra insulation. The fleece liners might be lighter and may pack smaller though.

Just remember that bags don't produce heat, they just keep it in. Sleeping with a lot of clothes on might actually hinder what they are designed to do.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I will put my vote in for the fleece liner also, I love mine, I also have fleece pants and long sleeve shirt. Fleece is lightweight.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Sleeping bag liners and covers are the standard way to increase the warmth. Wearing extra clothing that does not interfere with circulation also helps.
Most people get cold from the ground not the air. A good insulation layer underneath you is important.
Also a roof over your head (tent, tarp) will help with radiant cooling.
And watching the thermoclines can make a big difference in temps.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

So spending $10 on a fleece liner sounds like a doable remedy to the cold. I am going to be bypassing anykind of pad for comfort. The plan is for me to hike in pretty deep utilizing a daypack to stay in 3 days at a time and then returning to my car for food every 3 days. Hopefully I will end up going to the car with either a deer, or elk to bring into town to drop off for cold storage... or even better yet it would be nice if the weather were cold enough for me to not come down at all..


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Nambaster said:


> I am going to be bypassing anykind of pad for comfort.


Sorry but that is a mistake. The pad isnt just to make you comfortable, its to get you up off the cold, humid ground. You will freeze in any bag if laying on frozen ground.

-DallanC


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

So you are saying pack a sleeping bag, a fleece liner and a pad? My shoulders are already starting to hurt...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You can skip the pad if you can get a grass pad or even some pine brows under you but as was said you need to get off of the cold ground. 

But I have also found that sleeping in my clothes is the most uncomfortable way to try and sleep. It is to the point that about the only way that I can sleep in them is when I am on my recliner at home. When I am out in the boonies I'll take my pants and shirt off and sleep in my long johns or put on a pair of fleece work out pants for warmth.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

toasty said:


> Put a "Hot Hands" body warmer at the bottom of your bag for you feet and one by your chest. If you can get a hold of a 3-4" thick piece of memory foam, that will do wonders for keeping you warm.


Agreed. As a scout master I would carry tons of hand warmers for my boys that inevitably came in complaining of being cold at night.

Put one in each sock and also fill a metal water bottle with hot (not boiling) water. That will keep you pretty warm. 


Nambaster said:


> I am going to be bypassing anykind of pad for comfort.





DallanC said:


> Sorry but that is a mistake. The pad isnt just to make you comfortable, its to get you up off the cold, humid ground. You will freeze in any bag if laying on frozen ground.


I agree with Dallan, sleeping pads can make or break you. The higher R-value pads will insulate you from the cold ground while low R-value pads will draw the cold from the ground and make you sleep terribly. If you are using an air mattress, put a folded quilt on top of it to insulate you.

But if you have the opportunity, just stuff one sleeping bag inside another. That will keep you warm without being miserable.

Finally, a couple Zippo hand warmers will keep going all night and keep your bag warmer. The only draw back to these is that they smell like lighter fluid and that smell could bother you (or the deer).


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Nambaster said:


> So you are saying pack a sleeping bag, a fleece liner and a pad? My shoulders are already starting to hurt...


 Bottom line - the more insulation between you and the ground, the warmer you will sleep. Even a small Klymit Static-V (low R-value) will be better than sleeping directly on the ground.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Most bag ratings assume a pad is in place. Conductive heat loss will sap away any heat within 10-20 minutes. Even a cheap blue pad from wally world is better than nothing (warm but bulky). At zero degrees (where in Utah is getting that cold already?) most people use an inflatable pad and foam one on the bottom (total R-value at least 4). 

I would avoid rocks as they can melt the liner and exterior materials. When I did winter field work in the Uinta Valley (-20F before wind chill) we would put hit water in nalgenes and those inside the sleeping bag. 

I am in the camp of wearing clothes and I know plenty of people who supplement lower rated bags by wearing a puffy jacket and fleece pants. I hike alot inthe winter and shoulder season and I find it always helps me. By clothes I solely mean insulating layers, always socks and never anything with sweat or moisture from the day. 


How you eat will also matter. Lots of fat and sugar for dinner. Sugar immediately produces heat and helps combat the loss of heat from processing the fat. The fat provides heat through the night.

But...and this is a big but....i don't know if you can compensate the noted 30 degree difference. I would be hesitant to go that far outside the rating of any bag. Thats barely within the survival range of most bags for hypothermia and exposure.(modern bags are normally rated with 3 temps: women(comfort) men (lower limit), and extreme. The extreme limit is normally no more than 30 degrees less than the "lower limit" rating. My 32F down bag (way to expensive) is only rated down to 6F for extreme use. I would not intentionally use it less than 20 degrees myself.

Best of luck and be safe.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

A closed cell foam pad (Ensolite?) weighs next to nothing. A bit bulky but well worth the hassle for warmth.
Even the Ultra lite guys carry pads for the same reason.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I am planning on hunting the Middlefork Unit in Idaho. I am starting at about 4500' and climbing close to 8000' and setting up camp over a spot where I have been seeing some cows calves and raghorns. The hike if you are counting switchbacks and curves of the mountain is likely to be close to 8 miles in. Temps have been getting about 18 degrees at night at that elevation and I plan to be hunting it on the 1st of October. The largest pack that I have is a badlands superday and I plan on hunting out of that for 3 days at a time and returning back to the car every 3 days for food and supplies for a total of 9 days. 

I guess that means that I will be returning to the car 2 different times with the last time simply calling it a hunt. Hopefully the return trips will be with elk quarters, a boned out deer, a case skinned wolf, a rug skinned bear, or even a mountain lion hide. I expect to camp near a pack trail where your horse back hunters will be moving back and forth on during the hunt if I ever encounter an emergency and require aid. 

Living out of a day pack is a little concerning but I am going to see if I can get it done. At the moment upgrading the pack is a little bit out of my budget. Returning to the car for supplies is also going to be a much needed break from the rugged terrain and just being on the flat ground of a dirt road is going to feel great. 

I appreciate all the advice. I really hope to go all out this hunt. I am not going to reserve my tag for trophy elk as I will have an extra bull elk tag for late season. My objective is just to spend sometime in the back country and packing out animals. Any harvest sure would be fun.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Might as well just skip all of this and jump to the end game:

LOL










-DallanC


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Beautiful place. I have only been to that unit once and it was for rafting the Middle Fork roughly 8 years ago. I had no clue it got that cold, that early. My wife and I are heading to the San Juans in CO next week and everything I have read shows temperatures around 30F most nights. And that is at elevations between 10-12k.

You can also buy one of the SOL emergency bivies. I think the Escape Light is like 5 oz and adds roughly 5-10F to your setup. I use their emergency blanket (half the weight but less warmth reflected) as my ground sheet as it is one of the lightest options and doubles as an emergency option if things go FUBAR. 

Also, the Z-Lite Sol sleepung pad by Cascade Designs weighs only 14 oz, should be able strap onto the bottom of your pack, has a great (for foam and cost)2.2 R value, only cost $35, and doubles as a seat on the cold ground. I used it as my sole pad last October at 9000 feet and loved it. Its the least I would use for sitting on frost covered ground an hour before sunrise.

Best of luck. You are braver and bolder than me. My backpack is 2.5x bigger than yours for 3-5 day trips. I have pushed it to 8 but had to dehydrate my own food. You sound like you have flexibility and contingencies in place. Hope you have a great experience! Jealous of the location.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

what dallanc said... ground conduction will inevitably get you cold. don't take a blow up air mattress - there is no insulation there and the ground conduction will get you. remember to take off any tight socks and put on super loose fitting ones. more people get cold feet by wearing multiple layers of socks that restrict circulation than wearing nada on the tootsies. beanie and loose socks, fleece. wear your coat and pants to bed. if you get cold, exercise in your bag, get warm, sleep. get cold again, exercise, get warm, sleep.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

don't forget that your choice of where to sleep is equally important - if you are out in an open meadow, count on the temperature being 10 to 15 degrees colder than if you sleep in a dense stand of trees. selecting a nice cubby hole under a large fir or spruce protected by branches and next to a radiating tree trunk is a very effective way to keep warm in the night.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> The hike if you are counting switchbacks and curves of the mountain is likely to be close to 8 miles in..........The largest pack that I have is a badlands super day.......My objective is just to spend sometime in the back country and packing out animals.


If your successful and kill an elk...how many round trips are you expecting it to take you to get it out? I'd beg...borrow or steal a pack that would be more suited for this type of trip if at all possible.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Like others have said, a pad is just as important if not more. That cold ground will go right through you, much like a burner heats up a skillet but imagine it being cold instead of hot and the ground being the burner and the skillet is you. Sorry I had to explain that analogy in detail, sometimes people get confused.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Time to reveal my amazon check out for approval... What do you guys think? Will I survive? 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004R7L7YU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S1R0JZA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1MXLL8D7VJOBX

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RFG0NM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AAAHQWPDRAVP0

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HPA43SC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AQMR7APK0O37E

Thank goodness for the Coporate American Express!!!:mrgreen:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Thats some fine equipment there, will last you a long time if you take care of it.


-DallanC


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

A Sol Escape Bivvy inside your bag will gain you around 10 degrees and weights practically nothing. Now don't buy the cheap survival bivvy that are not breathable or you'll wake up wet. SOL Escape is the best!
I also use a Klymit Insulated Static V Sleeping Pad and it helps a lot...weights in at around 1 1/2 pounds


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

sleeping pad?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> Time to reveal my amazon check out for approval... What do you guys think? Will I survive?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004R7L7YU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S1R0JZA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1MXLL8D7VJOBX
> ...


That's a nice lookin' pack. I think CPAJeff has one of those.

.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> sleeping pad?


I guess I don't understand this response. I've watched every episode and movie of Bevis and Butthead and I don't remember them making any references to a "sleeping pad". You know, something like "he said sleeping pad"


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> I guess I don't understand this response. I've watched every episode and movie of Bevis and Butthead and I don't remember them making any references to a "sleeping pad". You know, something like "he said sleeping pad"


Bevis and Butthead?

.


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