# Rutting Activity



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Anyone noticing much rut activity yet? I haven't seen many mature bucks at this point.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

they were pretty active on the Henry's this past weekend


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Saw activity even before the rifle hunt started. Bucks herding up does, trying to ride. I hope to get out this weekend with a good camera and find some big boys to get on film.


-DallanC


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I've seen lots of herds of does with no bucks or just small ones . Usually by now I've seen 4-5 4 points that are pretty nice. I've seen 1 3 point about 25 wide that's the only mature one. Did the bucks take a hammering because they came into the rut early?


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Did the bucks take a hammering because they came into the rut early?


Huh? The rut is just starting...should start to peak over the next 2 weeks.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I understand that but usually I see quite a few more bucks gathering does preparing.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

The mature bucks have all been shot.. I guess you should stay home and drink some hot coco..


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> I understand that but usually I see quite a few more bucks gathering does preparing.


That's because the weather has been so nice, its just getting started. Last year it got going a little earlier. I love Indian summers, but not for deer hunting.

The does are the ones that get the rut started by going into estrus. The bucks rounding up does, are just taking cues form the does, the bucks do not drive the timing of the rut. The does going into estrus is dependent upon the length of the day, or rather the sunlight in that given day. So while the length of the day does not actually change, the weather can affect the amount of sunlight. This can be a variable in when the does come into estrus. Last year we had snow early, and we had over cast conditions, this will bring the does into estrus earlier.

Moon light, and clear nights play a role also. That's why I like bad weather for the rifle opener. This year it was so clear, and the moon so bright, the deer were almost exclusively nocturnal.

Much of this goes for birds as well. When I was a teenager, raising pheasants, chukars, and quail, I did a lot of experimenting with light, to induce egg laying. With light alone, you can get pheasants to lay eggs in January. To get hatches from those eggs, requires a bit more though.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

UH OH!!! One eye is seeing fewer big buck than he thinks he should. Time for another meeting I guess? Name a time and place.....I'll bring the napkins.-----SS


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Did the bucks take a hammering because they came into the rut early?


Dude, seriously? _early rut_, really?? what planet are you on?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Longgun said:


> Dude, seriously? _early rut_, really?? what planet are you on?


It can happen, it can be late also. This is something that suppressed deer herds for many years.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Lonetree did you get my PM


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

The rut may come late or early but that is going to be marginal. The does need to drop their fawns about the same time each year to ensure the fawns will be ready for the following winter. If it is too early the fawns will drop too early in the spring and the survival rate will be down especially if it is a late spring. Drop too late and the fawns will be too small and unprepared for winter. Maybe all the bucks were shot on the rifle hunt. I would hold a meeting with your biologist and discuss the possibility of holding off rifle hunters for your precious Monroe unit. Don't forget a pen and a napkin for notes.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

we saw a couple decent four points up on the wasatch extended the smaller one was all by himself. The nice one I watched through the scope for 15-20 min just staring at his doe that was bedded down he had a thick neck on him too!


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Badger said:


> The rut may come late or early but that is going to be marginal. The does need to drop their fawns about the same time each year to ensure the fawns will be ready for the following winter. If it is too early the fawns will drop too early in the spring and the survival rate will be down especially if it is a late spring. Drop too late and the fawns will be too small and unprepared for winter. Maybe all the bucks were shot on the rifle hunt. I would hold a meeting with your biologist and discuss the possibility of holding off rifle hunters for your precious Monroe unit. Don't forget a pen and a napkin for notes.


Not marginal at all. If the does do not take, they will go into estrus a second time, this is like 18 days after the first cycle. Theoretically, this could continue until march. Back in 2002-2004 I was seeing spotted fawns in October, right next to fawns that were almost as big as yearlings. This un-succinct breeding plagued mule deer numbers through out the early 2000s. So like you said, its not good, but it can happen.


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

I think my buck was beginning to rut. His neck was swollen and scent glands were in full stink mode, this was the 2nd day of the rifle hunt. That's early for the rut.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

The buck I shot was actively pursuing does. This was on October 24th. He was also the biggest buck I saw in 6 days of hunting. He definitely was interested in one particular doe. He was snorting, grunting and thrashing through the oak brush when he wasn't chasing her down.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

COWAN said:


> I think my buck was beginning to rut. His neck was swollen and scent glands were in full stink mode, this was the 2nd day of the rifle hunt. That's early for the rut.


The deer I shot the second weekend of the rifle hunt last year was showing physiological signs of going into the rut. Mature, healthy bucks start to rut first, this is good, because the more ready they are, and the earlier the onset of estrus, the better things should take.

So the word the "rut" is kind of a general term. You have rising testosterone levels in bucks, starting in late October, this is brought on by shortening days. They shed velvet, their necks become engorged, etc. With the does going into estrus ~mid November, depending on the photoperiod. The "rut" is the culmination of these two things. The bucks should be ready to go, when the does come into estrus, with the "rut" being the actual breeding period taking place.


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## rockroller (Dec 7, 2008)

I thought some bucks were acting rutty this year during the rifle hunt. Bigger bucks with and sniffing does. Also a doe or a buck without antlers in one group was running around sniffing all the does. I've hunted a lot of years and that's my 2 cents.


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## Bow hunter mojo (Oct 12, 2013)

I haven't seen much activity up in the northern end of the state yet. I am thinking during the next couple of days and into next week I will see much more than I am now.


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

Lonetree said:


> Not marginal at all. If the does do not take, they will go into estrus a second time, this is like 18 days after the first cycle. Theoretically, this could continue until march. Back in 2002-2004 I was seeing spotted fawns in October, right next to fawns that were almost as big as yearlings. This un-succinct breeding plagued mule deer numbers through out the early 2000s. So like you said, its not good, but it can happen.


Ok let's go back to high school, when a girl was willing to let you hit it, would you step back and say, "no the times right right"? Hell no you turned into a horn dog. You took that chick for a ride and showed her the time of her life. I guess I should have rephrased it as it was the critical time when the does go into heat so they can drop the fawns at the optimal time for the highest success rate. It doesn't matter how many fawns are born in the spring , it matters how many survive their first winter.

PS: Your sons are not allowed any where near my daughters!


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

rockroller said:


> Also a doe or a buck without antlers in one group was running around sniffing all the does. I've hunted a lot of years and that's my 2 cents.


I saw the same thing with does sniffing other does. Does this perhaps help them start estrus?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Badger said:


> Ok let's go back to high school, when a girl was willing to let you hit it, would you step back and say, "no the times right right"? Hell no you turned into a horn dog. You took that chick for a ride and showed her the time of her life. I guess I should have rephrased it as it was the critical time when the does go into heat so they can drop the fawns at the optimal time for the highest success rate. It doesn't matter how many fawns are born in the spring , it matters how many survive their first winter.
> 
> PS: Your sons are not allowed any where near my daughters!


Yeah, rutting bucks are pretty much just like teenage boys, once the rut is on, they're ready, if she is willing.  I had a camper van in high school.

I only have one son, and he is only 20 months old, its going to be a long rest of my life. I was worried about having a daughter, but she is golden, I'm good there, at least for a few more years.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> I saw the same thing with does sniffing other does. Does this perhaps help them start estrus?


Back in the early 2000s I put out cow elk urine at a trail cam, and I had a lot of cows come in and smell it. It was on a tag, up in a tree. I've seen does sniffing does, but never put much thought into it. Thinking about it, it is mostly this time of year. I can't recall seeing them doing it, in the spring and summer. They are doing it for some reason.


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

A camper van in high school???? You must have been a legend. I am sure you have some great stories. 

If women can get on the same cycle then I am sure does can help other does get in the mood.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Badger said:


> A camper van in high school???? You must have been a legend. I am sure you have some great stories.
> 
> If women can get on the same cycle then I am sure does can help other does get in the mood.


I should have clarified, it was a VW Westy, my police stories are way better than my lady stories. "Son, can you tell me why you have 5 different calibers, and over 100 rounds of ammunition in your car?" This is just after taking the drug dog off the roof, and trying to stuff him under the vehicle. I have a 10X Resistol, wranglers, and a brush popper on, the guy with me looks like a homeless gypsy, and another officer has just informed the one talking to me, that they found "a lot of blood" in the rear of the vehicle. :grin:

Some quick reading shows that they can synchronize doe estrus with injectable hormones, so it can probably be done other ways also.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

In the wintering-ruting areas I watch daily,

It's realy kicking in the last 2-3 days.
Several mature bucks have shown up with thier nose's in the air..


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Seen several nice bucks last night on my commute home, smaller bucks did the legwork rounding up the does... now the big guys are showing up to take over. I hope to get out and get pictures this weekend.


-DallanC


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

There are some areas that tend to start early and some that come in later. May vary year to year but some of those areas are different pretty consistently. Spent the weekend hunting deer in Idaho. Bucks cruising and tending does necks swelled up like 5 gallon buckets, but still saw some big groups 6-12 does without a buck around. Enough bucks in the area if a does was hot they would have been there. I'd say that area was just ramping up.

Longgun,
So to answer the questions, Yes I believe he was serious and it was a valid question. 

Spring Shooter,
Always bring a napkin and pen to take notes. You might learn something.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Badger said:


> PS: Your sons are not allowed any where near my daughters!





Lonetree said:


> I only have one son, and he is only 20 months old, its going to be a long rest of my life. I was worried about having a daughter, but she is golden, I'm good there, at least for a few more years.


I have 4 boys & 1 daughter... with the boys I only have to worry about 1 penis but with my daughter I have to worry about everyone else's.


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## wan2bhunting (Jun 11, 2012)

Drama Drama Drama! -O\\__-:fencing::argue::focus:


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Muley73 said:


> There are some areas that tend to start early and some that come in later. May vary year to year but some of those areas are different pretty consistently. Spent the weekend hunting deer in Idaho. Bucks cruising and tending does necks swelled up like 5 gallon buckets, but still saw some big groups 6-12 does without a buck around. Enough bucks in the area if a does was hot they would have been there. I'd say that area was just ramping up.
> 
> Longgun,
> So to answer the questions, Yes I believe he was serious and it was a valid question.
> ...


Miley, with all the expert instruction I receive daily on here, what more is there to learn? What fool I was to spend all those years in college when all the experts are concentrated right here! I bet that's exactly how the biologists feel after enduring these meeting.-------SS


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

LOL! I'm am sure you are smarter than I. I'll stick to the napkin and those mythical backroom meetings.


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

I watched a three point outside my son's bedroom window just after noon today harassing three does. Bountiful. He was very interested in them, and clearly had a swollen neck. The does were having none of it though. Clearly they were not interested in his aggressive advances and sniffing.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Well I've been up every day for a week one mature buck is all the rat of the bucks chasing tail are spikes and. 2 points . By now I've usually seen many more .


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## Badger (Aug 27, 2013)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Well I've been up every day for a week one mature buck is all the rat of the bucks chasing tail are spikes and. 2 points . By now I've usually seen many more .


So are you recommending a spike and two point hunt-o-Rama for next year?


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Badger said:


> So are you recommending a spike and two point hunt-o-Rama for next year?


No just giving some observations of what I've seen. 2 points and spikes with herds of 10 does isn't something good to see. Maybe if you took more time to observe and less time obsessing about replying to every post I make you could come with some observations as well.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The odds are that those 2 pts and spikes are just following their mothers, same thing when you see a group of does during the hunt and find a 2pt or spike with them. I don't think that it is anything to worry about. The big boys will show up in time.


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## Bow hunter mojo (Oct 12, 2013)

I went out on the extended a couple of times over the past week saw some smaller bucks mostly 2 points my first 2 times out, yesterday I got into my first 4 point. No shots yet but they are starting to rut and the bigger ones are starting to show up...what excitement!


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

I don't want to side with #1der but I have to agree..(I am going to hate doing it)
I have seen the bigger bucks, and they are still staying a little high, and coming down the mtn to find does, and the spikes and 2 pts are in full rut mode.. The does must be smelling sweet.. 

Even if it is the bucks mother.. I don't think they care.. But I have not seen the does give in to any of the little ones..

That's my observation.. 

Need some snow to see the big boys in action..


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Critter said:


> The odds are that those 2 pts and spikes are just following their mothers, same thing when you see a group of does during the hunt and find a 2pt or spike with them. I don't think that it is anything to worry about. The big boys will show up in time.


So there nose up the does behind and running the does around isn't sign of rutting?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I think those two points have the same genetics as the toads that aren't on some sort of rainbow parade for everyone to see. So, despite not seeing the big bucks, they are likely somewhere close and if not, the general consensus of biologists, scientists, and game managers alike is that a yearling buck is capable of reproduction.

http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/tmot1/odochemi.htm


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I am very, very impressed with what I'm seeing so far on some of
the central/ S central general season units ......

A great carry over on yearling bucks with some REALLY nice, mature bucks
in the mix.....Highest buck to doe ratios I've witnessed on these general units
for several years!............................I like it..


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

klbzdad said:


> I think those two points have the same genetics as the toads that aren't on some sort of rainbow parade for everyone to see. So, despite not seeing the big bucks, they are likely somewhere close and if not, the general consensus of biologists, scientists, and game managers alike is that a yearling buck is capable of reproduction.
> 
> http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/tmot1/odochemi.htm


Yes there capable of reproduction, but are they really capable of breeding and successfully breeding the does and large amounts of does? I don't know by now there is just at least a 10-12 fairly mature bucks in the areas I'm looking. Theres one mature three point that is probably 25 wide that's still the only mature buck I've seen.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Yes there capable of reproduction, but are they really capable of breeding and successfully breeding the does and large amounts of does?


Yes....one little spike can breed lots and lots of does. Its pecker works the same way a teenage boys does....! In case you didn't remember, the theory about not enough big bucks around to breed the does was blown out of the water on Monroe with the collaring of does and following of dropped fawns. I don't think you have anything to worry about.


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## utaharcheryhunter (Jul 13, 2009)

klbzdad said:


> I think those two points have the same genetics as the toads that aren't on some sort of rainbow parade for everyone to see. So, despite not seeing the big bucks, they are likely somewhere close and if not, the general consensus of biologists, scientists, and game managers alike is that a yearling buck is capable of reproduction.
> 
> http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/tmot1/odochemi.htm


 Klbz.. What's wrong with a rainbow parade? It would be faaabulouuuus!!!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I haven't got out in the past two weeks here in UT, but I know for a fact the rut has kicked in in my home state of OK. Had a buddy last night shoot a main frame 8 (eastern count) with a kicker in the high 140s low 150s on our property in NW OK. Now I can't concentrate at work because all I can think about is that in a week and a half I'll be there rifle in hand to catch the tail end of things!


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Yes, little two points can breed lots of does. The thing with mature bucks is that they are ready to breed, with higher sperm counts, earlier. Under sub-optimal conditions this can be important. With mule deer in the midst of an increase, this is not critical. Also, the genetics of mature deer are proven, over several years, that is why they are mature. In all practical reality, you are going to have both young and mature bucks doing the breeding, with the same results. And you only need a buck to doe ratio of 10/100 to achieve this. Of more importance, is the health of these bucks, and of even more importance, is the health of the does. Those factors affect fawning, and retention, more than whether or not it is little two points, or mature deer doing the breeding.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> So there nose up the does behind and running the does around isn't sign of rutting?


Semantics maybe. Bucks are ready to "rut", before does go into estrus, and exhibit rutting behavior, prior to the does going into estrus. But it is the does going into estrus that brings the "rut" into full affect. When you see this behavior increase, along with does submitting to breeding, that for some may be the official "rut". The deer I'm watching are chasing a lot of does, and there is even some sparring, but not with great intensity. Does going into estrus is based on the health of the doe, and the length of sunlight in the day. We are having a lot of sunny days, and this can postpone things. Last year serious breeding was occurring the first week of December, and that was with a lot of over cast days, leading up to this. The overcast days affect the perceived hours of day light that trigger the does to go into estrus. Mule deer are "short day" breeders, so it is decreasing daylight that triggers estrus in the does.


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