# Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into Mall



## Frisco Pete (Sep 22, 2007)

The story is pretty self-explanatory and will likely be aired all across the nation as the media is hungry for "assault rifle" stories - and won't miss an opportunity to paint gun-owning citizens as socially-askew "gun nuts":

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23776359&nid=148&title=picture-of-man-carrying-rifle-in-jc-penney-goes-viral&s_cid=featured-2











> RIVERDALE - The gun debate continues to rage, and one man has gained a lot of attention. A picture of him wearing a rifle inside the Riverdale JC Penney has gone viral.
> 
> The picture received more than 10,000 comments on the KSL Facebook page with people wondering who the man is and why he carried a rifle into a public store.
> 
> ...


Of course we are all upset by the onslaught of Anti-Rights laws, proposed laws and changes, and biased/slanted agenda media coverage.
So this 22-year old (_from other sources besides the article_) guy picks now to carry his AR15 into a mall and JC Penneys. And says "_*he didn't expect this type of reaction*_".

Now, Utah may be a very pro-gun state, but this behavior that is absolutely bound to hit the media and garner a lot of attention that can be spun anyway the media chooses - which will probably be something like "_look at the Neanderthal typical AR15 owner who feels he has to carry his assault rifle to a mall and scare people. Is this the act of a reasonable person - if we don't pass some laws we will be seeing a lot of this - etc._"

Of course he absolutely has the Right to carry is AR15 in this manner in public.
But is it wise?
What is the real intent?
Can this help or hurt?

Besides the people commenting in the article I have done my own research around town and have found that even pro-gun people, especially women, think this guy is an idiot and makes gun owners look stupid. Legislatively active pro-gun people shake their heads at the potential media-spin damage done at a time when the media and anti-forces are portraying gun owners as irresponsible.

He says he didn't expect that type of reaction. Well it is most unusual to see anyone, including police, tote a slung AR15 into a suburban mall/store. In fact the only other case was a couple of years ago with another male of the same age that toted his on a University campus and generated the same media coverage but with nervous policemen accosting him. So we now have a grand total of 2 cases where this has happened. And this in a state with a large CC population and a sprinkling of OC types.

Why is this? Because most people here are socially responsible and feel that there is no need to carry more weaponry in a very public place than any Law Enforcement would be seen packing. And seeing as how we citizens are not wearing a uniform or badge, we carry the usual LE-spectrum handgun concealed out of social responsibility. We are defending OURSELVES if absolutely necessary - NOT fighting crime. We don't want to panic people around us (them not knowing who we are or what our motives) or attract unwanted attention from LE or actual - _shoot him first_ - bad guys.

Which leads to another thought.
Both Utah AR instances involved males in their twenties - actually low twenties. What the general citizenry is also aware of is that most of the mass murder incidents also involve the same general age demographics - from high school into the twenties. So young males packing the very rifle demonized in the media - without any explanation for that behavior or any obvious need where it was carried - certainly leads to fear and questioning of WHY he was exercising his rights in such an unusual fashion.

Which begs the question - just because you CAN, does it mean that it is WISE?

Another demographic rears its head here - one that also may rankle people of the demographic. That is the NEED FOR ATTENTION that seems to particularly strike the members of the post-1980 or so generation. Certainly YouTube is particularly the domain of the "_Look At ME regardless_" personality and delivers 15 or more minutes of fame if one is lucky. But of course in-your-face body decoration and styles are also a manifestation of the same "_Look At Me!!!_" mindset. Even though the attention may be negative, it still is desired for psychological reasons for some. This despite the fact that a whole bunch of us don't really care to see your pet adornments or can figure out what they mean or are about. But of course we all have the Right to decorate ourselves however. This is not about that, do whatever - it is about mindset.

At its darkest center, the Look At Me mindset is also behind the mass murders that have so impacted our rights. These young males absolutely want maximum fame and are looking at ways to outdo the previous mass murderers that inspired them to their checkout deeds. They are bitter and leaving life, but they know how to ABSOLUTELY garner the most attention possible. People will be picking apart their pathetic lives and wondering why for a very long time when they Columbine-ize their death.

So back to the story - we have a target-group 22-year old male, without saying it, seeking big attention by carrying his AR15 around in a very public place.
And he justifies his behavior as either his "right" or as a "protest". Though neither impresses more mature minds.

And the people who are really in the trenches to continue our rights wonder what kind of idiots will pop up next on the See Me! radar...


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

I personally think this guy is a moron. He's lucky someone didn't shoot him. Very, very stupid stunt. Not the kind of attention we need.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Frisco, 
I really liked your post. I think it was well thought out and spot on. I agree!


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

The guy reminds me of some radical supremist(sic).Sure he is loving all the media([email protected]@s) coverage. :O_D:


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

I think a certain element of society has been trying to make guns "weird" for the past 30 or 40 years. They want people to think it is weird for someone to walk around with a gun.

I think the reason they don't want armed officers in schools is because kids would see the guns on the officer and think it is "normal" to own guns when they have tried so hard to make guns and gun owners weird.

Open carry is a right. I don't think that means you antagonize the public or the press at a time like this, which is what I think this guy was doing. But, I think we all need to stand up and be more responsible about asserting our rights.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

The more I read about this the more I admire the man for what he did. So...I had a change of heart...

Mr. Kelley has every right to open carry, his rifle was unloaded, he has a ccw to carry his loaded Glock, the man served in 'our' military for hecks sake, obviously a legal citizen. I would suggest he was just showing other's that it is legal to open carry in this state. No complaints, nobody called the cops, (as far as I know), nobody was hurt...not a big deal.

It may be something I'd rather not do.....besides, he's a little early. Open Carry Day in Utah and the United States is scheduled for July 5, 2013. :O||:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



.45 said:


> The more I read about this the more I admire the man for what he did. So...I had a change of heart...
> 
> Mr. Kelley has every right to open carry, his rifle was unloaded, he has a ccw to carry his loaded Glock, the man served in 'our' military for hecks sake, obviously a legal citizen. I would suggest he was just showing other's that it is legal to open carry in this state. No complaints, nobody called the cops, (as far as I know), nobody was hurt...not a big deal.
> 
> It may be something I'd rather not do.....besides, he's a little early. Open Carry Day in Utah and the United States is scheduled for July 5, 2013. :O||:


I completely agree with your post. He has a right, and he used it. Sure he was using it to make a statement, a very bold statement, but that is what we need. For years and years the media and left has been cramming down our throats the evil of guns. We seen it in the Clinton administration with the Brady Bill and we are seeing it ramp up again. We all see the media go to extremes to make a political point. IMO their actions need to be met with the opposite and equal reaction. The gentleman in JC Penny was giving the equal reaction. Good for him.

The cops were called btw. By the man carrying the rifle. I watched his interview on Fox13 and he stated how he called the sheriff before he left his house and let him know he would be walking around with his AR. They got his discription and where he would be and thanked him for the call. That was pretty responsible of him to give a heads up.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

I still think he's an idiot. He's taking his life into his own hands. Some trigger happy CCW guy could have capped his @zz. If I would have seen him he may have eaten some tile. scary thought given all the shootings that have taken place.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



martymcfly73 said:


> I still think he's an idiot. He's taking his life into his own hands. Some trigger happy CCW guy could have capped his @zz. *If I would have seen him he may have eaten some tile*. scary thought given all the shootings that have taken place.


McFly....are you a school teacher? 

I had a change of heart because of the Gun Appreciation Day at the State Capitol last saturday. McFly....there were thousands of guns there, most concealed, dozens of 'em open carried. Going in and out of the State Capitol building, walking up State Street, on the Capitol grounds. Cops were there, men, women and children, whole family's were there. I never saw anybody 'eat tile', never heard a scream, never saw the UHP get excited, didn't see SWAT or anybody in cuffs. I wasn't scared one bit.

McFly, this is a legal right we have, we just don't endorse it much because of people with you're attitude. I saw all those guns and people and realized people like you, me, them, are after one common goal. And that is to help protect our 2nd. The same as Mr. Kelley would do.

Okay?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

No I'm not a teacher. The rally was different it was planned and advertised. This guy walked into a mall when we've had shootings here. Yes it's his right and he exercised it. Just saying it might not have been the smartest thing to do or smartest place to do it. Im one if the biggest 2nd amendment advocates you'll meet. My attitude reflects what about the next nut job who goes into a mall with bad intentions. How long are we going to wait and see if he starts shooting needlessly killing an innocent child or mother? Waiting to see if hes exercising his rights. Or say he himself get shot. That's where my attitude comes from.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



martymcfly73 said:


> I still think he's an idiot. He's taking his life into his own hands. Some trigger happy CCW guy could have capped his @zz. If I would have seen him he may have eaten some tile. scary thought given all the shootings that have taken place.


Who's the idiot? Really?

Do you always feel threatened when you see a gun? I think I would have gone up and talked to him and shook his hand. I wouldn't have felt threatened, it was obvious he was making a statement.

Don't feel bad though. The media and liberal left has spent billions and held our media hostage to get this point across...and its working! The have indoctrinated you to believe guns are scary. The fact is being in the store at that moment with him there was probably the safest place you could be at that time if someone bad decided to rush in and started killing people. ...Well, except for the fact the rifle was empty


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Completely legal, but ill advised in my opinion. Not the right place to do it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I would prefer the bad guys don't realize I have a gun on me until it is too late for them.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Interesting...and I am of the opinion that most legal citizens should open carry.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Too many mall shootings in recent years to not feel a bit threatened by a guy that walks in the store open carrying an AR-15 style rifle and a side arm. Anyone remember Trolly Square? The mall shooting in Omaha - about 5 miles from where my in-laws live - AR-15 style weapon in that one. Should I feel threatened when a guy I don't know walks into a mall with a rifle on his back and gun on his belt? Absolutely I should. Because history shows that someone walking into a mall that way is almost ALWAYS there to do harm.

Now, if I'm at the range standing next to the guy, or out on a hunt somewhere, I don't feel threatened at all. I'm sure we'd have a great conversation and would get along great. But seriously - if you are in a store and some unknown guy walks in with an AR-15 style rifle and side arm, and you are there with your family, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel the least bit uneasy. And if I were packing, you can bet I'd get into a defensive position and would un-conceal my weapon in the very least.

This was the WRONG execution of the RIGHT idea. As was said, the guy ought to feel dang lucky he didn't get popped by someone in the store that was carrying concealed.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Do you feel threatened walking down the road that a drunk driver might hit you? I don't, even though it happens EVERYDAY. I think the media has gotten to you...either that or the horse meat. 

Gary the Horse Eater.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

I do feel threatened by other drivers - all the time. Which is why I drive defensively - all the time. And if I see a driver that is swerving all over the place, texting while they drive, or any other very dangerous things, I react to that with the horn, backing away, or whatever I need to do to stay safe. And if you don't drive defensively, then you don't drive on the Wasatch Front. Its all good though. If you are good with it, that is your deal. But if I'm shopping in a store somewhere that people usually don't tote guns, you can bet I'll be very cautious.

Guys are walking in and out of Cabelas, Sportsmans, and pawn shops that I frequent, holding all variety of weapons and I don't think twice about it. But JCPenny? Really? No good comes from that. Ever. This guy is an idiot.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



bwhntr said:


> Do you feel threatened walking down the road that a drunk driver might hit you?


 :mrgreen:

[youtube:1t2282my]http://www.youtube.com/v/5LN23qErZDM?[/youtube:1t2282my]


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

I don't think that you can do a comparison between drunk drivers and someone that is open carrying a firearm. The drunk is hidden in the vehicle and unless he is swerving all over the road you would have no idea that he was drunk. The person that is packing a rifle over his shoulder has the firearm in view of whoever is in his general area or even further away if they look at him and pay attention to what he is doing.

I have no problem with people that want to pack a firearm openly, but then that is usually a pistol on his hip and not a rifle over his shoulder. If you go to Arizona or Texas you will see someone with a firearm on his hip quite often and I actually know of a restaurant in Arizona that required you to disarm when you entered the business. They had a bunch of handgun safes mounted behind the receptionist area for you to place it and take the key with you.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Go back and reread Frisco Pete's original post. Let's talk about fear. Fear is expressed on this site hourly, Fear to the point of panic that our rights and privileges as gun owners might be compromised. The issue is not whether I as a gun owner and a CW permit holder feel comfortable if a guy openly carries an AR 15 into a mall but rather whether everyone else feels comfortable with it. I place this behavior in the same category with parading dead animals through the city. Is it legal?, yes. Will it sway public opinion away from hunting and hunters?, yes. Will it endanger our rights and privileges to hunt?, yes. Is carrying an AR 15 openly in the mall legal?, yes. Will it sway public opinion away from gun rights?, yes. Will it endanger our rights and privileges as gun owners?, yes. Does this kind of behavior make me feel uncomfortable?, yes. It makes me feel uncomfortable just to hear about it because it increases my fear that my rights and privileges as a gun owner might be compromised. In our fight to keep and bear arms we have to show enough responsibility and reliability to offset incredibly insane acts that make us victims as well as the children they senselessly kill. Openly carrying an AR 15 in Public is not the way to do that.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

+1 Campfire.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

+2 well said.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Lmao Gdog! Love that movie.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



bwhntr said:


> Interesting...and I am of the opinion that most legal citizens should open carry.


A-FREAKING-MEN!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

There you are...I was wondering when someone with a little common sense would chime in.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



proutdoors said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting...and I am of the opinion that most legal citizens should open carry.
> ...


Sorry but no! I prefer to carry my firearm concealed and loaded. It's not just for show.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



bwhntr said:


> There you are...I was wondering when someone with a little common sense would chime in.


 :O--O:



campfire said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > bwhntr said:
> ...


I am confused as to why you would want to always hie the fact that you are armed and willing/able to defend yourself and others? Do you also always make sure you conceal your passion for hunting, so as to not 'offend' those who dislike/fear/loathe hunting? For me, if I do something so shameful that I have to hide it, I wouldn't be doing it.........but, that's just me....


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*



proutdoors said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > There you are...I was wondering when someone with a little common sense would chime in.
> ...


Pro, The biggest reason I carry concealed is because with CW permit I can legally carry loaded (concealed) which makes carrying better suited to the reasons for carrying. But that is not the issue here. The issue is public opinion and I suspect that we are not so far apart as you might think. I think we may just disagree on degree rather than principle. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that if everyone carried openly people would get used to seeing guns and some of the irrational fears toward guns and gun owners that many have might be dispelled. But if we gun owners hide in the closet we really cannot show the non gun owning public that the great majority of gun owners are responsible. If this is what you are saying, I agree. We both compared carrying guns to hunting and I think we both made accurate comparisons. You mentioned that if we hunters hide in the closet no one will ever see that we are intelligent, honorable, humane people and dispel the neanderthal stereotypes that many non hunters have of hunters. Again, I agree. I pointed out that parading dead animals through the city encourages the same neanderthal stereotypes. The same can be applied to gun ownership and use. Our goal is to sway public opinion in favor of gun rights rather than encouraging irrational fears of gun ownership. Hiding in the closet will not accomplish that goal but neither will behavior that encourages irrational fear of gun ownership. OUR BEHAVIOR NEEDS TO REFLECT RESPONSIBILITY! We may disagree on where to draw the line but I think our goals are the same.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Rights vs. Negative Attention? 22-yr Old Packs AR into M*

Fair enough. 8)


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