# Utah on the Fly



## orvis1

Who else posts or reads Utah on the Fly? What do you think about it?


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## Guns and Flies

I've never been to the site before.


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## Fishing31

Most are critical of everything or anyone who writes something. I submitted a story or thread about bears. My responce was about about a trip in Idaho that had to do with bears and simple mentioned the number of fish caught and it was one of the most exciting trips of my life. Someone wrote back about hotspotting "his favorite spot". 9 miles from the end of the road, had to take horses in and he was affraid the entire state of Utah was going to his "favorite river". Said he was going to get his AK47 and come after me. Many of the threads are rediculous and way off from fishing. The make fun of others and others opinions. There are some on there that are great guys. I see the same name on this site and they are always positive and professional. I have gotten help from some on the site as well as here. Many times I have felt they were childish and snobbish. But I have found when serious important information is shared I have benefited. I have met some great guys on that site.


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## RnF

I used to visit that site under the handle of fishynsmelly. I will still browse it from time to time, but I don't contribute to it anymore. To each their own I guess. The reason I left, is that it just doesn't fit my personality. Most of the dudes on there have been fly fishing for ever and are in a different place than I am when it comes to fly fishing. I personally never really connected with that community. More of an issue with me than with them.

I did get a lot of usefull flyfishing and fly tying info from there though.

I do find the majority of the community to be rather brash and fast to judge others. It is the rudest forum I have ever been part of. You definetly have to earn your stripes there. 

This site fits me much better. This community is much more laid back, and it is more willing to help others and share information unlike UOTF. UOTF could be so much more if it wanted to be, it is holding itself back by being the way it is.

Just my 2 cents.


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## wyogoob

No one at "Utah on the Fly" is on my Christmas card list.


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## wyoming2utah

I have been a regular over there for a long time...it has been a good site, but lately the topics are getting old. It seems like about everything has been hashed and rehashed so much that the long time posters have tired of it.

For the most part, I think the guys over there are decent and knowledgeable. I think they can be arrogant, are unafraid to voice opinions, and are often blunt...but these things aren't always bad.

If you post on UTOF, don't do it expecting a bunch of back slapping...

FWIW, none of the poll areas fit my feeling of the site and, quite frankly, I thought the question/answer options were steered toward the negative side. In truth, I think the poll will not be very informative because it doesn't allow for people like me to answer it.


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## orvis1

Really, wow I thought I had 2 positive choices, 2 negative choices and a couple nuetral choices. Goes to show you can't please everyone...


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## Packfish

Got to go with WY2 on this one. There are some people with some very good knowledge and years ago it was a very good site. But things are just being hashed over again and again and some of the guys can be pretty arrogant , depending on thier day. Sometimes some people post some pretty foolish stuff also and are like bait. There is a clique over there as there are on any sites.


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## ScottyP

UOTF is the first fishing site I started posting on and I have met some great people from there. I have no idea where I would be with this whole fly fishing thing if it wasn't for that site. I am a contributor and consider it my home fishing site. I didn't vote in your poll since I also didn't really see a choice that described what the site is to me. The a**hole reputation of the site seems to come mostly from guys who sign up on the site and start tooting their own horn like they are the greatest fisherman to walk the earth. Start throwing out numbers caught, lesser known waters, and self-promoting talk and you will get roasted without mercy. Approach the site with a bit of humility and a good sense of humor and you may find that it is a great recource and quite entertaining. There are some very knowledgeable anglers on the site-- too many to list.


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## cheech

I think there are a lot of great guys over there. As you have seen, I'm pretty much a regular over there. I have met a lot of great guys over there that i have had the chance to fish and tie with for a number of years. I think PBH hit it on the head. If you post over there, you need to be prepared to get some type of ribbing, and thick skin is a must over there. I'd have to say that most of my posts over there are of the smart alec nature, but that's just how UOTF is. There is a reason that I post on a few forums such as this one.


Orvis, I thought your poll didn't give enough options. My choice would be - "A site where I can be entertained and occasionally read a good topic about fishing."


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## ScottyP

cheech said:


> Orvis, I thought your poll didn't give enough options. My choice would be - "A site where I can be entertained and occasionally read a good topic about fishing."


Make that 2 votes. The archives contain good poop too.


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## RnF

ScottyP said:


> The archives contain good poop too.


The archives are great over there.


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## GSPS ROCK

When they first started the site it was a great place to post and meet new people and I posted a ton and fished with many including going to a few gatherings, now most of the are ROYAL JERKS and I wouldn't spend a minute with some of them.

The site went downhill fast :evil:


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## Packfish

Yes-there needed to be more options on the poll. And the archives are very good. You can't be a new guy though an just start posting. You had better read a bit and know where most of them are coming from. The site is kind of like stress- to have stress you have to care and I don't give crap.


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## RnF

Packfish said:


> Yes-there needed to be more options on the poll. And the archives are very good. *You can't be a new guy though an just start posting.* You had better read a bit and know where most of them are coming from. The site is kind of like stress- to have stress you have to care and I don't give crap.


Why not? Every other forum am I part of I could. Why do you have to be a supposed expert to post there? That is exactly why that site has gotten stale. No one new wants to put them selves in the line of fire. The community will not grow if people are afraid to post. The same members post the same crap over and over and over again because there isn't ever anyone new there. It's ridiculous. Why would they discourage new members like that?

I just don't buy peoples excuses of having to have 'thick skin' and a 'sense of humor' to post there. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... well it's a duck. A lot of people over there are just not nice. And that hurts the sites community.


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## Packfish

The sites community is a tight small community. Just a different site. It's already been said that there are some very knowledgable guys over there and the archives are very valuable.
There are some guys that know very little but fit into the clique. So ? I frequent some sporting goods only when I want to- no different with web sites.


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## F/V Gulf Ventur

LOMAO!

Not enough options for me


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## Grandpa D

I have also been a member for a long time but don't post anymore.
I didn't like the way they bash other sites and their good old boys attitude.
As already mentioned, you have to work your way into their good graces and I just don't need that!
There is good information to be gained there, they are just too picky about who they will share it with.


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## Fishing31

I guess in order to evaluate the site fairly I have to look at one thing. Did I get what I wanted from UOTF. I saught information that would increase my knowledge of flyfishing and tying. I get that. I guess I must apologize for my "selffish attitude" of expecting something other than was there in the response to posts etc. So bottom line, there are very knowledgable individuals there. Many have helped me open new ideas and try new methods. Particularly to tying. To that I am grateful. Even found a great rod builder.


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## Mr. Loopy

There are idiots everywhere you go. There are also almost always nice people everywhere you go.

I go to UOTF quite a bit. I have recieved a lot of help from guys on that site in the past.


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## Edward K. Galleck

I used to frequent Utah on the Fly once in a while. There was some good info. on there. But some of the posts on there were very inappropriate, especially for younger people. I am surprised it is still around.


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## Rocki

Like a number of others, I used to post often on that site from as far back as 2003. However, over the last year I would say, it has just taken on a new direction that I felt was wrong....from my perspective. Yes, there are some decent people on there and there is a wealth of good information. However, there are a number of assholes who do try to score brownie points with others. I think the word "clique" is a good way to describe it. It just seems like that is the accepted attitude over there now, and I just would rather not be a part of it. Yes, it is the internet, but that excuse only goes so far. Like RnF said, and I agree with, you shouldn't have to have a thick skin or a sense of humor to put up with some of the pie holes who think they know something about fly fishing and only seem intent on belittling you. 

The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more.


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## Grandpa D

Rocki said:


> The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more.


Rocki,
your information is very welcome here.
Please post for us.
Thanks,
Grandpa D.


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## .45

Grandpa D said:


> Rocki said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more.
> 
> 
> 
> Rocki,
> your information is very welcome here.
> Please post for us.
> Thanks,
> Grandpa D.
Click to expand...

Yeah !! Stick around Rocki !! There's some good people on *this* site !! 

Don't ever think I'm one of 'em.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Rocki

Thank you gentlemen for such a nice welcome. You can bet I will be more than willing to share information with you guys. I've hung around here for some time, both the new and old boards, and know that there are some **** nice people in this community.


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## waltny

You the same Rocki from Utahtalkfishing.com?


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## Rocki

Waltny, yes I am.


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## Mojo

I think there are a bunch of a-holes over there. Inconsiderate and elitist SOB's. And probably some of the most intellegent and knowledgable ff'ers out there. That's why it's my favorite site I guess.
Not all sites are owned by internet nazi's who only want you to think their way, or your banned from there.
To Mr. Gelleck- No one promoted it as a "family oriented" site. You want family sites stick with FAOL and Big Fish Tackle.
Grandpa D- no site bashing there that I know of. Give us an example.
If you really want to get to know someone, fish with them. UOTF has more get togethers than any other out there that I frequent. Some of the greatest guys and gals I've ever met. Try it some time boys. Thin skin doesn't belong on the internet.


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## HighNDry

The site is good. I think they take heat because they do not allow fishing reports on quiet waters. You can still follow their rules and ask and recieve info by email. I think they do this to cut down on the number of chest puffers who just want to post how great of fly fishermen they are. You know the types: they catch 50+ fish each outing, make sure you know about it and then claim they are only trying to share information. You can read through them like an insecure, open book.

They do have their cliques, but most of them are the ones who will give you the "real" truth on places, flies and techniques when you email or meet them in person.

There is good and bad no matter where you are at.


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## Mojo

Rocki said:


> The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more.


 Rocki, let me give a belated thank you for all you contributed on UOTF. No one meant to hurt your feelings by not thanking you.
On behalf of at least 97% of those who post there, THANK YOU! (I can't speak for the other 3%.)
I mean it. 
To the others who used to frequent it and don't like it anymore. Come on back over and try it again. Be yourselves. If you're a newby, tell it like it is. No one cares if you fish with a Walmart outfit or upper end outfit. Listen, read, contribute. Give an opinion. I dare ya.
Hope you all had a great Christmas and have a careful and joyous New Year.


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## Local Waters

Rocki said:


> I think the word "clique" is a good way to describe it. It just seems like that is the accepted attitude over there now, and I just would rather not be a part of it.


I agree.


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## HighNDry

I say "thank you" too. Nothing worse than those who are not grateful, unless it is those who are only gracious because they seek the gratitude.

Hey that would make a great saying for a T-shirt!

Come on over to UTOF from time to time. Add a comment or two. If nothing else, it's a great place to check to see if you are wearing your big boy briefs.


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## Rocki

The thank you is very much appreciated. 

Like I said, UTOF has a wealth of good information in its files and there are a lot of individuals on there willing to give advice, guidance, directions to lesser known fishing holes and even volunteer to take a beginner out on the stream; and God bless them for it. However, there are a few people on there who just do not make it worth it, for me anyway, to contribute anymore. No loss to them, I’m quite sure. 

I however, don't think it has anything to do with pulling up your big boy panties. I think it comes down to what you will and what you will not tolerate, and it’s purely a personal choice. If you like it and get something out of it, then that’s great. 

R


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## orvis1

As the orginator of this thread it was interesting to see that the majority opinion what that they are a bunch of a holes and elitist snobs. No one has taken more flack then me on posting a make shih tzu for sale (warning wrong site for that). There are some great fisherman on that site, some wana-be's, and some guys who fill thier days giving people a hard time. Of the 5 fishing websites I contribute to UTOF is the last on my list to visit. Recently I have found myself lurking more and contributing less...... Just my 2 cents.. 


Rocki welcome to UWN this is were I call home....


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## Dirty Frank

Hi guys, frequent lurker here. 
Who do you think is the biggest ******* on UOTF? I think it is a castoff between Stoney Clark, Cary & Grizz. I used to think that chris was but he isn't there anymore.


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## icthys

Dirty Frank said:


> Hi guys, frequent lurker here.
> Who do you think is the biggest Not so nice guy on UOTF? I think it is a castoff between Stoney Clark, Cary & Grizz. I used to think that chris was but he isn't there anymore.


Have you ever actually met these guys? I would guess you haven't.

Best not to speak about anyone you have never actually met.

I've met more good people from UOTF than I have from the UWN, DWR, and BFT. Why? Because UOTF is friendly enough to have organized friendly outings like the annual Green River trip and the up coming freeze your ass off and fish the Provo (FYAOAFTP) on Jan 12. Not to mention the Strawberry get together where everyone brought food and drinks for a big BBQ lunch.

When is the next UWN party??? I'd like to come.


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## Ulthimar

icthys said:


> Dirty Frank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys, frequent lurker here.
> Who do you think is the biggest Not so nice guy on UOTF? I think it is a castoff between Stoney Clark, Cary & Grizz. I used to think that chris was but he isn't there anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever actually met these guys? I would guess you haven't.
> 
> Best not to speak about anyone you have never actually met.
> 
> I've met more good people from UOTF than I have from the UWN, DWR, and BFT. Why? Because UOTF is friendly enough to have organized friendly outings like the annual Green River trip and the up coming freeze your ass off and fish the Provo (FYAOAFTP) on Jan 12. Not to mention the Strawberry get together where everyone brought food and drinks for a big BBQ lunch.
> 
> When is the next UWN party??? I'd like to come.
Click to expand...

How many fish get caught during thier BBQ's?

When I get on the river I like to fish, i'll save my chatting for the boards, and my eating for the table.


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## HighNDry

I'm not sure why someone would make a survey like this unless they have some hard feelings or hurt feelings. One thing that should be considered is that most of those guys mentioned are really nice in person. I don't know if there is such a thing as on-line personality but that seems to be the case. Not that it should be tolerated either. Just saying.

Anyway, I hope we can be big enough to not stike out at something or somebody when we feel we have been excluded, made fun of or told we are not as good as. When we strike out with such a survey it really makes us the same as what we are disappointed with.


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## HighNDry

Ulthimar said:


> icthys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dirty Frank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys, frequent lurker here.
> Who do you think is the biggest Not so nice guy on UOTF? I think it is a castoff between Stoney Clark, Cary & Grizz. I used to think that chris was but he isn't there anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever actually met these guys? I would guess you haven't.
> 
> Best not to speak about anyone you have never actually met.
> 
> I've met more good people from UOTF than I have from the UWN, DWR, and BFT. Why? Because UOTF is friendly enough to have organized friendly outings like the annual Green River trip and the up coming freeze your ass off and fish the Provo (FYAOAFTP) on Jan 12. Not to mention the Strawberry get together where everyone brought food and drinks for a big BBQ lunch.
> 
> When is the next UWN party??? I'd like to come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many fish get caught during thier BBQ's?
> 
> When I get on the river I like to fish, i'll save my chatting for the boards, and my eating for the table.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a response from an elitist snob?
I guarantee those guys catch a bunch. They really are some of the best fly anglers out there. Don't be jealous, just show up to an outing and learn and enjoy.


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## cacherinthewry

HighNDry said:


> I'm not sure why someone would make a survey like this unless they have some hard feelings or hurt feelings. quote]
> 
> That's exactly right. It started when Orvis1 (Orvis2 on utahonthefly) posted some pics and got some feedback (positive, actually) on fish handling and taking better pics. Then he got upset when he got teased about what kind of dog he owns. Then he posted some off topic jokes and got crap for that. It wasn't too long until he posted this survey. Seems pretty clear to me that there's a negative bias behind the survey.
> 
> Just a few pointers on the other site:
> 
> -If you register, read the rules. If you break the rules (ie giving reports, posting off topic, etc) you're going to get crap about it.
> -If you give personal information, like what kind of dog you have, you leave youself open to digs, teasing, etc.
> -If you get teased, you probably just got initiated in to one of the "cliques". The "initiation" is complete when you are a good sport about it.
> -If you don't like some of the people or their feedback, you don't have to read or respond to their posts.
> -In fact, there is an IGNORE feature where you can block any post by any person so you don't have to be bothered with them.
> 
> And BTW, one of the "Clique" leaders has a shi tsu as well. He even put it on the internet as part of a tying video. So I'd say it wasn't the breed, it was the attitude that gave Orvis2 a problem.
> 
> BTW #2 There are no cliques. There are: online friends who met in person & now fish together, friends who just know each other on the board, individuals who come just for the give & take of info, lurkers, and a few antagonists (inside and outside of the regular membership).


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## Ulthimar

I should have phrased that a different way. "How much fishing get's done during their BBQ's?" would've been better. I am really curious. When I say I prefer to fish when i'm on the river it's not because believe I'm "elite", its that I love the river and everything about it. I feel that some of these large gatherings; while fun; hurt the fishing aspect.


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## HighNDry

Good point. Most of the outings are over a period of days or all day events so plenty of time to fish and down time too.

Some do go for the social and for the booze. If that's not to your liking, then there seems to be a few others that just like to fish as much as possible. 

In a way, it's a bit ironic. They don't want to have chest puffing reports on the site, but then out on the water it's almost always a competition.


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## icthys

Ulthimar said:


> I should have phrased that a different way. "How much fishing get's done during their BBQ's?" would've been better. I am really curious. When I say I prefer to fish when i'm on the river it's not because believe I'm "elite", its that I love the river and everything about it. I feel that some of these large gatherings; while fun; hurt the fishing aspect.


Depends on the fisherman. I'm not a huge chatter on or off the boards so most of my time is spent fishing. Most of the time when I'm out fishing, which is at least once a week, I'm on my own. It's nice to hit these get-togethers a few times a year to meet friends you don't see often and meet new people even if there won't be as much fishing going on.

I owe most of what I know and my success to the fisherman of UOTF.

I'm surprised these outings get bashed on. I hear a lot of bashing on fly fisherman because they are typically "unfriendly", these outings are the complete opposite.

I'll see everyone, UOTF, UWN, and BFT at the River Road north parking lot on the Middle Provo Jan 12. Don't bring your flip flops.


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## HighNDry

I think the Wasatch Fly Tying and Fly Fishing Expo is organized by guys from that site. The first annual was held last year and those guys put a lot of effort (own time and money) into making it come off. The monies made were then donated to the DWR (I believe) for habitat purchase or improvement. You can judge all you want, but I know for a fact, the majority of them are decent. Yes, a few bad apples and sulphur smelling eggs in every bushel and carton, but if you look for the good you'll find it far outways the results of any internet survey with the choice of anwers you have given.


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## orvis1

Lets just leave it at I will spend my time on forums where the "feel" is different. Here is a more open, friendly, want to help feeling. On UTOF it does not have the same level of acceptance. I was planning on going to the provo river trip but have a better trip brewing with some guys here. It is fair to say I wanted to see if my experience was unique or if others felt the way I did, and it looks like others have similar feelings about UTOF. Some guys can get really brave on the net and be great guys in person. I also realize I am middle of the road on that forum as far as fly fishing. I have met some of them in person at Rick Peterson's fly fishing class as well. I would say that if you have had the experinces I have had there you may feel the same way. Just be careful what you post there, because if it doesn't "fit" with the culture you will hear about it.


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## cheech

This thread is quite entertaining. In fact, this thread is not fishing related one single bit. It won't make anyone a better angler, or promote friend making. It isn't even a report of how I slayed it on the middle using #32 bunny midges yesterday, so what is the real point here?... 

I guess you could say that I'm one of the trouble makers over there. I know most of the people who post on the site one way or another, and I'd have to say that I have not found a bad egg in the whole batch (Except FlySmyth 50% of the time). I have to admit, there is not a whole lot of back slapping over there. I guess that's just how it is. It's not because everyone is an a-hole over there. Take Chris for example. The proud president of the UOTF A-hole club. He's probably one of the nicest guys on that site that would bend over backward for you. 

Orvis, I think you went in to UOTF expecting to be some type of expert/comedian/whatever, and it didn't necessarily go over well with the guys. I think at a certain point you have to be able to turn jokes around on yourself. I think the fact that you started this thread over here is pretty dumb. Like starting a "what do you think about chevy" on a ford forum. You have your audience. Bravo.


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## HighNDry

I guess every dog has to find a home no matter what the breed.
Best of luck to you.


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## orvis1

I will accept some ownership of not understanding the "culture" but I post the same stuff on all 5 websites and UTOF is the only site I get that kind of reaction on. That should tell you something. Cheech I know you are a great fisherman and I plan on getting some bugs from you in the spring but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.


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## cheech

orvis1 said:


> I will accept some ownership of not understanding the "culture" but I post the same stuff on all 5 websites and UTOF is the only site I get that kind of reaction on. That should tell you something. Cheech I know you are a great fisherman and I plan on getting some bugs from you in the spring but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.


To be truthful, I have only been fishing since 2000 and still have a lot to learn. I can tie flies. I need to get better at fishing.


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## orvis1

cheech said:


> orvis1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will accept some ownership of not understanding the "culture" but I post the same stuff on all 5 websites and UTOF is the only site I get that kind of reaction on. That should tell you something. Cheech I know you are a great fisherman and I plan on getting some bugs from you in the spring but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> To be truthful, I have only been fishing since 2000 and still have a lot to learn. I can tie flies. I need to get better at fishing.
Click to expand...

That is not the word on the street. You and I have been tossing feathers about the same amount of time then. I am a converted hardware dragger that will dunk worms and powerbait with my little girl and on the ice. That doesn't sit to well with the "purists' but I do only fish flies in moving water.


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## styan

Orvis, This is one stunning thread you've started over here. I would like to be the first to offer my sincerest apologies for making fun of your dogs.


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## orvis1

I just posted a formal apology on UTOF I will see how that goes over. Styan I know that you are an animal lover and that my shih tzu's are not the most manly dogs. They do however make my wife and daughter happy and at this stage in my life that is more important. I am sure you understand, but thank you for the apology even though it was not necissary.


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## madonafly

I understand the "DON"T MAKE FUN OF MY DOG" thing for sure. I have a Weener :shock: dog 
New to this forum but this thread caught my eye. I always considered UOTF as the "Elton Brown" (the chef) of fly fishing. They not only tell you what to use or is working, but when, where, and how to go about it. They are just very discrete, and I think that is a good thing.
It is easy to get feeling brused there, but in the next breath they are patting you on the back.
If you get a bad answer, give it a few minutes, it will change just like the weather  
In other words...I like it, but then again, I like vertically challenged dogs :roll:


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## HighNDry

styan said:


> Orvis, This is one stunning thread you've started over here. I would like to be the first to offer my sincerest apologies for making fun of your dogs.


Now if you could just apologize for making fun of him, we can all get along! :roll:


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## Tyson

orvis1 said:


> Who else posts or reads Utah on the Fly? What do you think about it?


I have posted there for a couple years. I don't fish with any of the members on a regular basis. I've personally met some of the original members that I felt I had something in common with and they have all been outstanding, great people. I have a lot of respect for their angling wisdom.

If you are referring to the forums they are pretty much dysfunctional when it comes to good web content. The challenge that site is facing, as I see it, is that most of the posts are of a social nature. So they have no importance to anyone that is not hanging with that crowd. I think that hurts the recruitment and new member participation. The archives there are great, though.


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## Rocki

I'm curious Orvis.....why did you feel a need to apologize? As I see it, there was nothing either here or on UTOF that you needed to apologize for, past or present. If they don't like you, then the hell with them. Just my opinion, though.

Tyson, I think *dysfunctional* was a good choice.


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## HighNDry

Yeah, what about the elitist snobs from UTOF? Do you feel they need to apologize? Why is it you guys can call them elitist snobs and other names and feel that is okay, but jump on them when they call you a whimpy, whinny, Shih Tsu?


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## cacherinthewry

Rocki said:


> The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more.


viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2858

Looks like both boards share some characteristics?

HighNDry, +1!


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## Rocki

cacherinthewry said:


> Rocki said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more.
> 
> 
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2858
> 
> Looks like both boards share some characteristics?
> 
> HighNDry, +1!
Click to expand...

Well, there must be a lot of UTOF members here also. J/K 

I'm not saying it only happens on UTOF, but it happened enough to discourage me from doing it on that board any more. No big deal, and I only brought it up to explain why I feel the way I do. I'll reserve my right to pass judgment here because I'm a newbie.

Seriously, though, you should use whatever forum(s) floats your boat, whether it's UTOF, BFT, WFF, DWR or UTAHFISHINGTALK. Some you will like and some you won't. In the end, it probably means nothing anyway.


----------



## Petersen

[exclamation:3g5ry8vt][/exclamation:3g5ry8vt]You know, I really feel uneasy about this forum being used to discuss the pros and cons of someone else's forum. I certainly don't mind people mentioning other discussion boards here. We're all part of a larger community, and many people jump back and forth on several of them - including me.

Still, if someone has a problem with UOTF or any other forum, wouldn't it be better to discuss it there, face-to-face, instead of doing it here behind their backs?

Lately, I've noticed several threads, the topics of which have been other forums. Like I've said, this is okay, but I would really prefer that the members here refrain from using this board to criticize other boards or the members, owners or moderators of those other boards.

Am I wrong about this?


----------



## huntnbum

Petersen said:


> Am I wrong about this?


Negative!


----------



## Mojo

This thread was started by Orvis1. Why, I doubt he'll really tell us the truth. 
*Fishing31* tells us about a bear story he wrote about and "_Someone wrote back about hotspotting "his favorite spot". 9 miles from the end of the road, had to take horses in and he was affraid the entire state of Utah was going to his "favorite river". Said he was going to get his AK47 and come after me. _
Fishing31 find that post. It'll still be there. I don't believe that happened.

*GSPS*- _"now most of the are ROYAL JERKS and I wouldn't spend a minute with some of them."_
*Edward Gelleck*_-"But some of the posts on there were very inappropriate, especially for younger people. I am surprised it is still around."_
*Rocki[/b]-"The other problem I had was giving out information to some and never receiving a "thank you". Even went as far as sending fly patterns, fishing locations or printed material to individuals. Figured I just didn't need to be part of that community any more."
ulthimar comments on "How many fish get caught during thier BBQ's?
When I get on the river I like to fish, i'll save my chatting for the boards, and my eating for the table.
From our friend Tyson-"If you are referring to the forums they are pretty much dysfunctional when it comes to good web content. The challenge that site is facing, as I see it, is that most of the posts are of a social nature. So they have no importance to anyone that is not hanging with that crowd. I think that hurts the recruitment and new member participation. The archives there are great, though."
And another gem from Rocki I'm curious Orvis.....why did you feel a need to apologize? As I see it, there was nothing either here or on UTOF that you needed to apologize for, past or present. If they don't like you, then the hell with them. Just my opinion, though. 

Amazing- now I see certain a-holes, elitists, holier-than-thou, ROYAL JERKS, b.s.'ers and someone who's afraid somebody is going to take a AK after them for hotspotting an Idaho area? (which I'll believe when I read it).
The grass isn't alway greener guys. Most of you are guilty of the same thing as the ones you are bitching about.
I think this thread should be buried now.*


----------



## Rocki

Petersen said:


> [exclamation:2ol58524][/exclamation:2ol58524]You know, I really feel uneasy about this forum being used to discuss the pros and cons of someone else's forum. I certainly don't mind people mentioning other discussion boards here. We're all part of a larger community, and many people jump back and forth on several of them - including me.
> 
> Still, if someone has a problem with UOTF or any other forum, wouldn't it be better to discuss it there, face-to-face, instead of doing it here behind their backs?
> 
> Lately, I've noticed several threads, the topics of which have been other forums. Like I've said, this is okay, but I would really prefer that the members here refrain from using this board to criticize other boards or the members, owners or moderators of those other boards.
> 
> Am I wrong about this?


I'm going to say yes and no.

I think good things can come from this looking at both sides. If Orvis posted this on UTOF, he would have gotten a one-sided view. Now, maybe the poll wasn't the way to go about it, but I think he got some honest answers here from a mix of people; from those who love the site to those who could do without it. Obviously lots of members here are members over there also, along with those that used to be or occasionaly visit now and again, which allows for a heck of a lot more accurate view. If anyone took what I said as gospel, than they need to re-evaluate their thought process. It was my experience and mine alone. Some had similiar experiences, some completely different. I think all were expressed well, (with as little name calling as possible) both the positive and negative.

On a positive note, this may actually bring more people to UTOF. It may have gotten to some that never heard of the site and want to give it a try. It may have made some reconsider why they don't post anymore. I don't think it will certainly take anything away from the site. I say again it is a great resource and has some good people on it. I would hope people take everything said here with a grain of salt and make up their own minds.

I do stand by my statement about Orvis's apology. If you're not accepted for who you are, then you shouldn't give those people the time of day, regardless of the forum you're in.


----------



## chuckmiester

after reading this entire thread one thing i noticed is how many people joined the site to post about it. it is cool to see more people joining.

as for the original topic-i went over there as a new fly fisher and asked for some friendly advice on getting started and ended uip getting a lot of flack from people. after reading some of the post i learned a lot even though i had a bleak opinion of the people they do know there stuff. i got the impression though that you must live in the valley and be a 100% C&R guy to get any responses. the site was ok in my opnion but there just wasn't enough traffic and the hotspotting thing did not set well with me so i left, and found the dwr site, which fit me much better. 

for you guys who think we dont meet people on this forum, here it is up to the person to meet people. i have fished with many people on this forum and i think they are all really good guys. i did not need a "site outing" to meet people that is why we have the pm function


----------



## RnF

Mojo said:


> The grass isn't alway greener guys. Most of you are guilty of the same thing as the ones you are bitching about.
> I think this thread should be buried now.


It was definetly greener for me.

It took me over 3 years for me to accumulate 200 posts on UOTF. It has only taken me 3 months to do that here. I enjoy it, so I post more. Like I said earlier, to each their own. UOTF is a great resource, but I enjoy spending my time here because it fits me. I am sure you enjoy UOTF for the same reason.

Also keep in mind, just because you don't see or experience what others are saying in this thread about UOTF, doesn't mean it never happened or happens. Everyone had their own different experiences, some are good and some are not so good.

Rocki, that was a well thought out post and I couldn't agree with you more.

Chuck, How much longer until you take off? Time is getting short I imagine. Let us know before you go.


----------



## Pez Gallo

There are a lot of knowledgable guys on utof, but there are a lot of knowledgable guys everywhere. If people aren't happy with what is going on over there, they should show their displeasure by quitting the site. It does seem that is what the members over there want by their defensiveness of the core group. I have seen a few people on there get reamed because they pipe in with information on various fishing questions. It is like watching a train wreck, which is what some people enjoy. Core members will bait newbies into arguments online, even calling it "trolling, setting the hook, etc" 

Many of the members of Utof are pretty civil, but some behave in a pretty negative manner. Now for those who will say how great these guys are in person, the question begs to be asked, "Why are these guys such jerks online, if they are so great in person?" A good person is a good person all of the time, not just in certain situations. It is the true test of one's character how they act when their actions are anonymous or at least not in person. How cowardly it is to berrate an individual on an online forum!

But as a privately run website, it's either like it or leave it. Maybe the Utof core group wants the site to remain small and thus makes it a struggle for a newbie to become accepted. It sounds like Jr. High all over again, but its Utof perogative to moderate their site as they please, but probably not a great way to get a good reputation.

But as "consumers" of information on the web, we have a choice of where to click our mouses. If you are unhappy with what happens on Utof, there are some great fly fishing/fishing/hunting forums out there, including this one, which offer a much more civil tone. Show your support of these sites by visiting them often, contributing when you please, and visiting the companies that advertise on those web sites.


----------



## Edward K. Galleck

Mr. Gallo hit the nail on the head. There are a number of high quality fishing sites available on the internet. Most of the negative comments posted on this thread appear to be from guys that at one time frequented that site but for whatever reason no longer found it suitable for their needs. I left that site when individuals on there started posting more about taking illegal drugs or drinking alcohol than they did about fishing. It is a free country; the internet is world wide and unregulated. Just as Mr. Gallo points out, it is a like it or leave it proposition in any free market and apparently a good number of former members have left it. I get the feeling that after reading some of the comments from people defending Utah on the Fly is they are actually miffed that so many people have moved on.


----------



## wyogoob

Mojo said:


> ...................................................................................
> The grass isn't alway greener guys. Most of you are guilty of the same thing as the ones you are bitching about.
> I think this thread should be buried now.


I went back and read most of this thread. Mojo is right. Many of us have become, or are, like those we are complaining about. I think this post has become inappropriate.


----------



## orvis1

My intentions and yes this is the truth, was to see if my experience was unique or if others have had a similar experience. The apology was for what was considered "inappropriate jokes" on that site, I think it was justified. I am going to give it another shot over there now that I better understand the "culture of that site".


----------



## HighNDry

I don't believe you Orvis. I think you had your feelings hurt and you wanted to strike back at UTOF, but that's my opinion. If you didn't feel guys over there are eletist or A's and you just wanted people to give an opinion on their experience, you shouldn't have made it a poll and just asked a simple question: Hey what do you think about the UTOF site?

You may have still gotten the AH answer and the eletist answer, but it wouldn't have been put in front of their face as an answer. Those answers came from your feelings.


----------



## orvis1

HighNDry said:


> I don't believe you Orvis. I think you had your feelings hurt and you wanted to strike back at UTOF, but that's my opinion. If you didn't feel guys over there are eletist or A's and you just wanted people to give an opinion on their experience, you shouldn't have made it a poll and just asked a simple question: Hey what do you think about the UTOF site?
> 
> You may have still gotten the AH answer and the eletist answer, but it wouldn't have been put in front of their face as an answer. Those answers came from your feelings.


Well you know what they say about opinions.... I think I have been as up front an honest with this issue as I can. If I wanted to flame UTOF why would I still post there? Think about it ..... Believe what you would like you are entitled to your opinion. My opinion has been pretty clear, I like UWN and Utah fishing talk better than UTOF it seems more friendly. I made the comment earlier I post the same things on 5 different sites why is UTOF the only one I have had problems with? I am learning the culture and posting less but contributing where I can add insight to the conversation. I don't know what I did to you personally that you are so adamant that I have other motives, obviously you don't know me that well.


----------



## HighNDry

No sense hashing this over an open forum. I don't know you and you don't know me and you don't know alot of guys on these sites. That was my whole point. 

Open forums are sometimes a release for some people. Just as sports and believe it or not fishing is a release for some people. People will say things on an open forum that they would not say face-to-face, that's just the way it is. People do it all the time. Call it cowardly, call it personality disorder, call it dysfunctional, but these same people would do just about anything for you if you really were in need. 

I've seem people receive hundreds of trout flies to replace those that were lost. I've seem guys offer rods, reels, waders and other gear to help someone out in a pinch. I've seen a young 14 year old get expert advise and rides to and from the waters to help him develop into a good fly fisher. I've seen guys offer to take out-of-staters out as guides for free. I've seen the good and the bad in these guys (UTOF) and I'm trying not to throw a stone in anyones water. I will, however, sometimes do and say things to get people to think and look at the opposite side of things. That's my personality disorder for sure.


----------



## ScottyP

orvis1 said:


> ... I post the same things on 5 different sites why is UTOF the only one I have had problems with?


Perhaps that is part of why you get the flak that you do. Many of us peruse the same several sites and to me is seems silly to paste the same jokes, anecdotes, and reports on all the sites. They are not all the same and perhaps should be approached as individual communities. Just my own observence.



HighNDry said:


> Open forums are sometimes a release for some people. Just as sports and believe it or not fishing is a release for some people. People will say things on an open forum that they would not say face-to-face, that's just the way it is. People do it all the time. Call it cowardly, call it personality disorder, call it dysfunctional, but these same people would do just about anything for you if you really were in need.
> 
> I've seem people receive hundreds of trout flies to replace those that were lost. I've seem guys offer rods, reels, waders and other gear to help someone out in a pinch. I've seen a young 14 year old get expert advise and rides to and from the waters to help him develop into a good fly fisher. I've seen guys offer to take out-of-staters out as guides for free. I've seen the good and the bad in these guys (UTOF) and I'm trying not to throw a stone in anyones water. I will, however, sometimes do and say things to get people to think and look at the opposite side of things. That's my personality disorder for sure.


Perfectly stated. I have the same disorder.


----------



## GSPS ROCK

MOJO,

I think you are wrong about me and my reply, I posted 1000's of times on the site, I never once criticized someone for being new, asking for advice, what type of rod or waders they used, whether or not it was hand tied or store bought or even jumped on anyone for mentioning anything about any specific water (because I don't believe one word about hot spotting). I have attended several outings and fished with over 20 people from the website.

I watched the site go down hill and instead of continuing to read the rude replies from the *ROYAL JERKS* I decided it was time for me to float down a different stream.

Yes the UOTF was a great site in it's early days but over the last year or so it has gone downhill.


----------



## HighNDry

Maybe the real answer to all of the hate and envy is to make everyone sign in and post with their real names. Then some of them might think twice about the offensive garbage. Then again, maybe not. Stoney Clarke...is that a real name?


----------



## ScottyP

Breast Wrangler.... Is that a real job?


----------



## Mojo

ScottyP said:


> Breast Wrangler.... Is that a real job?


If it is, where do I apply?

Sorry Mr. Gelleck, I couldn't help it. :twisted:


----------



## styan

Man....some of you guys have some fairly critical comments about UOTF...
One thing I can say for the frequenters of that site is they wouldn't allow a thread of this nature to last 5 minutes, let alone 8 pages worth. Most of which is hate and unsubstantiated bashing. In my humble opinion, worse than why you criticize UOTF. 

Tyson, you seem to have a case of short term memory...I recall giving you a pair of waders and a pair of wading shoes that I asked you nothing for. I didn't know you from Adam. Just some new guy on the UOTF site crying poverty. I thought I was helping a guy out. I guess that thread wouldn't have fallen into your "dysfunctional" category?

Orvis, when you joined UOTF I reached out to you and emailed you to warn you about the nature of the site after you received some grief. I told you to hang in there, give it back and enjoy the members. You could have called it kind of a "heads up my friend". 

Selective memory? The true colors are blinding on this one fellas....

This bandwagon would have square wheels on UOTF.


----------



## HighNDry

I hear you Styan. Funny how the rules of this forum say no posting of personal attacks, vulgarity, argumentative, combative or slanderous stuff, yet they allow a survey with the answers that fall into those categories. I guess it's okay to attack others as a whole group from another web site.


----------



## Tyson

styan said:


> Tyson, you seem to have a case of short term memory...I recall giving you a pair of waders and a pair of wading shoes that I asked you nothing for. I didn't know you from Adam. Just some new guy on the UOTF site crying poverty. I thought I was helping a guy out. I guess that thread wouldn't have fallen into your "dysfunctional" category?


styan,
I have not forgotten that or the other members of the board that have helped me out in one way or another. I have made great friends because of the site (though about half of them have a negative view towards it now). But I ought to give credit for the good that it can do.

I do have some memory loss from time to time. What I posted earlier about the site content was not really fair or accurate. Its not fair to compare one forum at its worst to other forums at their best. The site has many threads where people stay on topic and contribute in good faith. My apologies.

Tyson


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## Finnegan

HighNDry said:


> Funny how the rules of this forum say no posting of personal attacks, vulgarity, argumentative, combative or slanderous stuff, yet they allow a survey with the answers that fall into those categories. I guess it's okay to attack others as a whole group from another web site.


Maybe you got a point there, HighNDry. We aren't perfect. Then again, maybe there's a difference since the rules are intended to promote participation. UWN isn't in competition with any other forum. We support other forums, including UOTF, by posting links on this page. Meanwhile, I highly doubt anybody is going to feel reluctant to post here or feel uncomfortable here because of this thread. I also doubt this thread will have any negative impact at all on UOTF.


----------



## HighNDry

Okay. Sounds like you got a pretty good handle on things. Check out my poll.


----------



## styan

Tyson said:


> styan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tyson, you seem to have a case of short term memory...I recall giving you a pair of waders and a pair of wading shoes that I asked you nothing for. I didn't know you from Adam. Just some new guy on the UOTF site crying poverty. I thought I was helping a guy out. I guess that thread wouldn't have fallen into your "dysfunctional" category?
> 
> 
> 
> styan,
> I have not forgotten that or the other members of the board that have helped me out in one way or another. I have made great friends because of the site (though about half of them have a negative view towards it now). But I ought to give credit for the good that it can do.
> 
> I do have some memory loss from time to time. What I posted earlier about the site content was not really fair or accurate. Its not fair to compare one forum at its worst to other forums at their best. The site has many threads where people stay on topic and contribute in good faith. My apologies.
> 
> Tyson
Click to expand...

Strong work Tyson and thanks for the email. 
I'll fish with you anytime....

Orvis? You're suddenly AWOL...Cat got your tongue?


----------



## orvis1

Nope still here, and posting on UTOF as well and yes styan had told me to hang in there and that I was going to catch flack about my dogs. Flygirl also has been cool as well as several others, just a different culture over there but I am getting used to it.


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## Improv

I made a simple post on UOTF regarding a lost fly box on the Provo, within hours I had not one, not two and not three, but I had four different replies from four different people (three of them I have never meet) all willing to replace my lost fly box – no strings attached! I received 3 times the number of flies that I originally lost - with no expectations other than I would return the favor to another fly fisherman. I have since tied more the 10-dozen flies to replace lost flies. 

I would by lying if I thought that everything said on UOTF was said with genuine sincerity without the slightest hint of sarcasm, but the reality is that a lot of the frequent posters are wordsmiths with above average IQ’s. These posters love indulging in a battle of wits from time to time and if you come unarmed, you will be eaten up. However, if you want to really know how a fly fisherman is, don’t rely on a forum – go fishing with him/her – that’s the true test.


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## Mojo

Excellent post on all accounts Ben.
BTW-He isn't the only one that has had lost items replaced with no asking of a payback.


And on another note: Viva la Andy Kim :twisted:


----------



## orvis1

Improv said:


> I made a simple post on UOTF regarding a lost fly box on the Provo, within hours I had not one, not two and not three, but I had four different replies from four different people (three of them I have never meet) all willing to replace my lost fly box - no strings attached! I received 3 times the number of flies that I originally lost - with no expectations other than I would return the favor to another fly fisherman. I have since tied more the 10-dozen flies to replace lost flies.
> 
> I would by lying if I thought that everything said on UOTF was said with genuine sincerity without the slightest hint of sarcasm, but the reality is that a lot of the frequent posters are wordsmiths with above average IQ's. These posters love indulging in a battle of wits from time to time and if you come unarmed, you will be eaten up. However, if you want to really know how a fly fisherman is, don't rely on a forum - go fishing with him/her - that's the true test.


That is really cool, there are some really good people over there!


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## Useta

I'm a newby here. I'm also a fairly new poster on UOTF. I found my way here as a result of the poll post at UOTF. I've had the experience of having my fur stroked in the wrong direction over there a time or two. I also live outside of Utah, so I could be considered the consumate outsider. A couple of observations: Having been the recipient of less than complimentary replies to a couple of my posts, I could have chosen to tuck tail and depart muttering epithets and curses, but I would have missed out on a great resource and some great people. Through my lurking there, I've come to know of many worthwhile projects that enhance our fishing resource. Clean-ups, salmon fly restoration, and others that have been mentioned already. Some very generous people there, that don't hesitate to share gear, a ride, their expertise, their flies, and pieces of their lives. They also shine the spotlight on issues that could be very detrimental to fishing and habitat. Yes, there's abrasion. It's not kid friendly conversation at times, and if you step out of line, retribution is swift. There are attempts by some to make posts that pander to "cool", or to insider coded messages, blue humor and profanity, which I don't ascribe to. UOTF definitely has some bark left on it. I look at it like this. If I want to find the nuggets, I have to move some gravel. I can go dig in a place where I feel my chances are better if I want to. I don't have to keep digging there. Different Strokes. I'm glad that there's a choice of places to dig, and this looks like a great place. Lots of promising gravel here. I haven't even started to explore the resource, but I compliment the administrators on the content. I'll continue to post on UOTF, because I like a little abrasion occasionally, just to keep the neurons firing and add a little spice to the mix.


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## Norman

Wow, nice poll and thread. :roll: I've fished with a few of you and fished with a bunch of the snobs over at UTOF, never found one I didn’t like. Never found one that wasn't helpful especially on a river. Still fish with the guys that started the board and plan on fishing with them for many years. Yea you gotta have a thicker skin, but that’s always been easy for me. Be careful with this new board that you don't start the same stuff that you’re whining about with UTOF. Both sites are tools, use them accordingly. With all good sharp tools, if you’re untrained and ignorant, you might lose a finger. 

"Norm"an


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## Flyfish4thrills

*Utah on the Fly Used to be my favorite*

UTOF used to be my favorite fishing message board years ago. Nothing else compared. The core group seemed to me to be dwr guys/biologists, and/or family and friends of dwr/biologists. They shared very valuable and interesting information that made me a far better fisherman and far more aware of the challenges the dnr faces in our state. They were/are very proactive in promoting flyfishing and trout conservancy in the state. A lot of them are great guys. What ruined it for me was when the core group/webmaster/etc. decided to stop allowing the posting of reports. They were afraid of losing their honey-holes. And yes, they are a well-connected group and have a lot of honey holes. They get after people for posting any information of almost any location-- "hotspotting", and prefer just pm'ing each other. They use keywords/nicknames for specific waters when they actually write something (which is now rare). Also, their topics have been rehashed so many times, they have lost interest in posting (as noted earlier). After that, I really lost interest in the site. I think they actually like that there are less people there. I still frequent the site occasionally and read the archives when looking for specific information, but now I spend most of my time here and on another board. I see nothing wrong with the website owner changing the format to fit their wishes. I just wish it was the way it used to be. I also found most posters to be friendly a majority of the time, even though tight-lipped about specific waters.


----------



## F/V Gulf Ventur

*Re: Utah on the Fly Used to be my favorite*



Flyfish4thrills said:


> What ruined it for me was when the core group/webmaster/etc. decided to stop allowing the posting of reports. They were afraid of losing their honey-holes. And yes, they are a well-connected group and have a lot of honey holes. They get after people for posting any information of almost any location-- "hotspotting", and prefer just pm'ing each other.


Reports are allowed as long as the name is not tossed around and Barbie shots are not stating the obvious.... just show the fish, that's all anyone wants to see anyway.

IMHO....It seems that laziness is why hotspotting is loved so much, usually by weekend warriors and one day a month fishermen, not that there is anything wrong with that. But there are others who fish a ton and are willing to share information with those actively looking for it, rather than posting it for all the world to see. I like being the only guy on the water at all times, don't you? IMO, crowds suck and I feel that people need to do their homework not just reap the benefits of others. I have always shared information to those that are in need, on both sites, and always give back info if someone was kind enough to share with me... Give give not take take. I am happy that its this way, that's just me though. This topic will always be a struggle to find common ground on.


----------



## HighNDry

I went out over the weekend to the Middle Provo. Man! It was awesome. A midge hatch came off right around 2 P.M. And I slaughtered them. I nailed a bunch on top! Most were in the 12 to 14-inch range. I don't count but I probably caught 16 on top and then I went sub-surface with a sunk Renegade and caught about that many more only these were larger. If you guys can get out, you should. It was a little slow for my regular winter fly fishing, but enough action to keep my mind occupied. I wasn't sure what the kid with the green John Deere hat was using but he nailed a bunch too. Looked like a green sparkle bugger.

I'm sure glad this site allows reports. Hey anytime you guys want to learn how to fly fish. Just let me know. I started last fall and It's so easy to catch fish with flies. I don't know why I didn't start earlier in life. I guess I just bought into the idea that you had to be a rockstar to do it. I'll take anyone out who want to learn. I'm all about helping others be as good as I am. Thank you.


----------



## F/V Gulf Ventur

High and Dry if you have something to say then say it. Your backwards comments are quite ludicrous. Looks like you tried to make it but fell short of success. To bad for you, Rock on Rockstar!


----------



## cheech

F/V Gulf Ventur said:


> High and Dry if you have something to say then say it. Your backwards comments are quite ludicrous. Looks like you tried to make it but fell short of success. To bad for you, Rock on Rockstar!


No doubt. Spit it out man. I think if you have an opinion you should be able to freely share it with the rest of us without being scared. Sorry if your feelings are hurt.

BTW, something tells me that your report is a bunch of crap. I fished next to the green John Deere cap all day and he got his butt kicked just like me.


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## madonafly

Now that is funny Cheech.....fish stories are expected, but that sounds like a BUSTED story to me :wink:


----------



## cheech

HighNDry said:


> I went out over the weekend to the Middle Provo. Man! It was awesome. A midge hatch came off right around 2 P.M. And I slaughtered them. I nailed a bunch on top! Most were in the 12 to 14-inch range. I don't count but I probably caught 16 on top and then I went sub-surface with a sunk Renegade and caught about that many more only these were larger. If you guys can get out, you should. It was a little slow for my regular winter fly fishing, but enough action to keep my mind occupied. I wasn't sure what the kid with the green John Deere hat was using but he nailed a bunch too. Looked like a green sparkle bugger.
> 
> I'm sure glad this site allows reports. Hey anytime you guys want to learn how to fly fish. Just let me know. I started last fall and It's so easy to catch fish with flies. I don't know why I didn't start earlier in life. I guess I just bought into the idea that you had to be a rockstar to do it. I'll take anyone out who want to learn. I'm all about helping others be as good as I am. Thank you.


I did a bit of research, and something tells me that the fly that you were using on the Provo was a ROYAL WULFF. Please correct me if I am wrong. :twisted:


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## F/V Gulf Ventur

cheech said:


> I did a bit of research, and something tells me that the fly that you were using on the Provo was a ROYAL WULFF. Please correct me if I am wrong. :twisted:


Probably rode his bike there too..... in spandex none the less.... Tour de Fairy!


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## HighNDry

So my point was made. All you fools who want reports can't take them when you get them. Most reports are nothing more than some ego freak wanting to let the world know he can catch a fish. Holy cow! Get a life man. Anyone can go catch a fish and it doesn't take some special fly. Get a hold of your high horses and realize fishin' is just fishin'.

Sometimes backwards comments say it better than the forward comments. Look at what rats have come out of the wood pile.

Try to belittle me now because I hit a nerve. Yet, I'm the one who needs therapy???


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## cheech

HighNDry said:


> So my point was made. All you fools who want reports can't take them when you get them. Most reports are nothing more than some ego freak wanting to let the world know he can catch a fish. Holy cow! Get a life man. Anyone can go catch a fish and it doesn't take some special fly. Get a hold of your high horses and realize fishin' is just fishin'.
> 
> Sometimes backwards comments say it better than the forward comments. Look at what rats have come out of the wood pile.
> 
> Try to belittle me now because I hit a nerve. Yet, I'm the one who needs therapy???


Great post. Kudos to the fishing. My bad... I obviously have you mixed up with someone else. Being tall doesn't always allow me to ride the high horse. Fishing is something that I hope to be good at some day. For now, I'll stick to the vise, and fish small streams with really stupid fish.


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## F/V Gulf Ventur

HighNDry said:


> So my point was made. All you fools who want reports can't take them when you get them. Most reports are nothing more than some ego freak wanting to let the world know he can catch a fish. Holy cow! Get a life man. Anyone can go catch a fish and it doesn't take some special fly. Get a hold of your high horses and realize fishin' is just fishin'.
> 
> Sometimes backwards comments say it better than the forward comments. Look at what rats have come out of the wood pile.
> 
> Try to belittle me now because I hit a nerve. Yet, I'm the one who needs therapy???


Huh??? This makes no sense. Report away. Fishing is just fishing, you have made no point.

WTF did I do to you? Man, your miserable. Perhaps you should actually go fish, I promise it will make you feel better.

I have a life, pretty good one. Been snowboarding almost everyday or fishing. It been that way my entire life. How about you? Just working? Well, I'm off to the slopes. Have fun working.. LOL...I suspect some jealousy from your posts.

No nerves hit with me old man. It appears it YOU with the problems, sorry to see that. If you ever loose that chip on your should let me know, I'd be stoked to learn from you, honest.


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## HighNDry

Anytime, anywhere. Let me know. Do you prefer the stunted browns of the Middle? They're hungry and can be caught with just about anything.

All fish are stupid. It's the high and mighty angler that gives them brains. Planted Rainbows on the Green, stunter browns in the Middle or sophisticated Henry's Fork trout. I can get you into them all.

When you get a chance stop by my shop and I'll give you a few tips and a dozen free flies. I guide the Provo now. Ever since I invented the Spandex Nymph....a little pattern I came up with from a biking accident, I have a name around the country.

Have fun snowboarding. You'll be a superstar one day!

Oh wait! You've already convinced me you are. Good ego.

How big a fellow are ya?


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## HighNDry

I snowboard or fish every day
That makes me someone, wouldn't you say?

I outfish the best of them all
Snowboard the hills with narry a fall!

Rockstar, cast and catch a char
Rockstar, slide on the snow far.

Others have to work
That makes them a Jerk.

What a life I do have, while others are sad
They look to me and say, "man that dudes bad!"

Rockstar, cast and catch a char
Rockstar, slide on the snow far.

I have the time to be better than you.
And I'll let you know about it too!


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## cheech

HighNDry said:


> I snowboard or fish every day
> That makes me someone, wouldn't you say?
> 
> I outfish the best of them all
> Snowboard the hills with narry a fall!
> 
> Rockstar, cast and catch a char
> Rockstar, slide on the snow far.
> 
> Others have to work
> That makes them a Jerk.
> 
> What a life I do have, while others are sad
> They look to me and say, "man that dudes bad!"
> 
> Rockstar, cast and catch a char
> Rockstar, slide on the snow far.
> 
> I have the time to be better than you.
> And I'll let you know about it too!


OK... That was kind of lame.

H n D, you aren't really acting up to snuff for this site. You need to repent


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## HighNDry

Okay. Sorry. I guess I was pushing the wrong buttons in the wrong place. My brand of fun seems to wear on people. I'm grateful for the opportunity to associate with each of you in a small way. Please don't be offended. I was just trying to have some on-line fun. Please forgive me. May your flies be well constructed and have many fish catching days on the water. May your lines be tight with tugs of fighting trout. May you have all your wildest fly fishing dreams come true.

May I recognize my weaknesses. May I remain a humble stick. May I fish with those of superior skills and not covet. This I ask for, with sincerity and humility, confessing the errant cast and poorly tied Humpy. Pteronarcys californica mmmmmmmm my father beat your father at dominos. Amen.


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## orvis1

High-N-Dry where is your shop?


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## Packfish

Zinnnnnnnnggggggggg (0:


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## HighNDry

orvis1 said:


> High-N-Dry where is your shop?


Sorry for misleading. My shop is in my basement. It's just a commercial fly tying shop. Not an actual "fly shop" where you can buy rods, reels and related gear. Flies only to order.


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## orvis1

P.M. some info website ect.... I plan on buying some bugs this spring from cheech. I would rather support forum members than flyshop.com or blue ribbon flies.


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## F/V Gulf Ventur

HighNDRy - 
Sweet…how about next week? Or whenever you have a day off. Perhaps you'd feel better. I prefer water, so anywhere is fine by me. I suck at nymphing so I'd be stoked to learn from a truthful master.

I will agree, fish are stupid…. But also stubborn at times and smarter than me at times… OK many times. I am looking forward to learning on how you hoodwink fish each and every time. I have much to learn and am stoked that I don't know it all, I was taught to enjoy the entire process of learning and then applying. I was also taught to be careful of thinking I am better than anyone else…. once you think you’re a high-liner, you start believing your own BS. 

Where is your shop? I'd love to stop in for a dozen flies or to learn a few tying tips. Nice going on the fly invention. I am getting back into it. Started tying 22 years ago and now I am enjoying again.

FYI...Today was great, thanks for the encouragement. It was radical dude : ) But no superstar here, its just for fun…same as fishing. I hope I didn't convince you of anything. No ego here. Same person on this forum as the other, same name too.

Well, to answer your question… I am a lot smaller than you. Why do you ask? Are you wanting to fight me or something stupid like that…lol? If so, perchance you're taking this too personally, hope not.

I am not offended. Why would I be? It's really OK that you like to fish from the keyboard as well as the water. I am sure it makes you feel better knowing that you helped another person out with your great wisdom on all aspects. You obviously have me mistaken for someone who gets upset over something on the web. 

Your posts do appear that you have something to demonstrate, a chip on the shoulder so to speak, not sure why. Perhaps something fell through or you're not at a good place in your life. But you should know that my life style isn't a wealthy one. I don't have money but I really don't care. It's great that you work a ton; nothing wrong with hard working folks. Never said they were jerks, your putting words in my mouth. It just appeared that you’re a bit grumpyier than usual this morning. If I had to sit in an office everyday I'd go nuts too…. I chose to do it a different way, nothing wrong with that either. It is what you make it. If you want a home a nice car that's great if you can afford it, more power to you for doing what you want. Just because I don't chose that lifestyle doesn't mean I am a superstar or any such nonsense that you're trying to portray. You had the same choice; everyone with freedom has that choice.

BTW…I think that your poem is great...can I use it? I wouldn't want to infringe any copyrights so I thought I'd ask permission before using your words. It's great to see some verbiage on here, you should write more and post it. And to be honest…. your writing a poem, for me/about me, is a bit weird…. but thanks, really.


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## martymcfly73

orvis1 said:


> High-N-Dry where is your shop?


I think I've seen it at 1300 East Center Street in Provo (USH). I might be wrong, but figured by his rantings that might be a suitable place. A lesson to all, put the lid back on the head cement.

Seriously if you read any of his replies or threads he's just causing trouble.


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## Rocki

High and Dry,
Episode 3, 9th season, "Seinfeld". Called "Serenity Now". Watch it. Should help you with your problem.


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## HighNDry

"If you read any of my posts, you will see I'm just trying to cause trouble." What! Can you find nothing of value in anything I've written?

My teacher at the USH has encouraged me to explore through writing. She said to write down things that come to me and to try to express them as best I can. I appologize for the worthless drivel. 

May I post what I have learned from all of you. I will try to improve and be at the same level of social skills as each of you.

1) Guard your tongue. Say less than you think.
2) Be cheerful. Don't dwell on minor aches and small disappointments.
3) Make promises sparingly. Keep them faithfully.
4) Never let an opportunity pass to say a kind word.
5) Be interested in others, their pursuits, work, and families.
6) Keep an open mind. Disagree without being disagreeable.
7) Live so that nobody will believe ill-natured remarks about you.
8) Discourage gossip. It's distructive and unproductive.
9) Don't be anxious for getting credit for things you've done. Do your best and be patient.
10) Be careful of other's feelings.

I know I stir things up at times. I like to make people think about the "other" side of things, but that's not my position to do it. It's like a habit for me. I think I'm going to do better then, I just stick some odd ball comment out there and get in trouble.

Hopefully the USH will help me in my struggles. Thank you for your correction. I will highly consider this criticism.


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## Packfish

That **** Orvis---------- :lol: J/K. Just seemed like an appropriate response to end this.


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## madonafly

Packfish said:


> That **** Orvis---------- :lol: J/K. Just seemed like an appropriate response to end this.


LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## orvis1

Trust me I am surprised this thread did not die a long time ago...


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## cheech

orvis1 said:


> Trust me I am surprised this thread did not die a long time ago...


Trust me, it would have if there weren't so many elitist snobs like me around


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