# wolf activist "environmentalist or hypocrites"



## ramrod (Apr 15, 2008)

the recent wolf debates has me confused.
let me explain.after reading many articles and discussing this issue with activist in person I am confused. the wolf rights activist say man has no right to play god and decide witch of gods creations we chose to keep and witch ones we chose to do away with.and that this is natures way of a balanced ecosystem and keep in check over population of one species or another. 

every year most people, "activist included" get there flue shots. rush to the doctor every time there not feeling well. and god forbid they do get cancer they will go through the costly and painful treatments to try to beat nature.
you never here of a group trying to bring back small pox or the bubonic plague plague to control human overpopulation. 

one thing that many of these people seem to over look is that humans are omnivores and we are very much apart of the food chain and the ecosystem. simply put humans are predators. 

most of the activist I talk to say they are not vegetarians I asked one of them after telling me this, where do you think your meat comes from. she replied I try not to think of it. yet she is a true wolf supporter :roll: 


is it just me or are we dealing with a bunch of environmental hypocrites. picking and choosing which of natures ways they choose to accept.and then try to force everyone else to live their hypocritical views :evil: 


I believe wolves do have a part in the ecosystem in Yellowstone and in some wilderness areas. humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as wolves are and wolves need to be strictly controlled in areas where they are likely to come into contact with each other.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

Good post, and I agree. 

I like to use this logic. Humans are animals, and we eat meat. Wolves hunt animals for food, so why is it so bad when humans hunt animals for food? We don't want our wild game to be wiped out by other predators, so we do our part to keep it in balance.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

ramrod said:


> one thing that many of these people seem to over look is that humans are omnivores and we are very much apart of the food chain and the ecosystem. simply put humans are predators.


I think you have it spot on here.

Its beyond me why humans aren't considered a part of nature. We are here! We aren't going to leave. We have an effect on wildlife weather we want to or not. The only way humans wouldn't have an influence on wildlife is if they weren't present.

Anyone remember the book "The time Machine". Humans cannot be present without having an effect on the ecosystem.

So the notion of a *natural environment* is a pipe dream. Outside of some small reservations and the most remote and inhospitable ecosystems on earth. Humans have a enormous impact like it or not.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

Ramrod, you make some good points and observations.

Having lived in Alaska for a few years, I can say that this is not a new argument to me. I have a pure love and interest in wildlife and have a special curiosity and fondness for both the Grizzly and the Wolf and would never condone eradication of either species. I have watched the wolf reintroduction movement cycle from a point of legitimate concern to a spectrum of out-right extreme hands off posturing.

To argue that in natural environment wolves, bears and man would somehow balance the ecosystem is purely hyperboley, because nature in and of its self is always cyclical and rarely seeks a point of balance. The perspectives being presented on the wolf remaining under protection of the Endangered Species Act are almost completely political in nature and serve neither the environmentalists nor the conservationist. In my opinion we have moved way past the point of preserving and protecting the wolf and have somehow elevated the wolf to the status of deity much like the cow has become in India. I also do not buy into the argument that wolves, bears and cats are the top of the food chain! And furthermore, I do not buy into the idea that man is an animal and should somehow be excluded from the ecosystem. Man is and should be at the top of the food chain as we are, and man needs to exercise control and righteous dominion over the foul of the air, fishes of the sea and beast of the earth. Common sense is something that has been lost in the gene pool of man for some time now, but needs to be re-injected back into the heart of all maters dealing with the responsibilities of man.

As a constitutionalist, again I believe that almost all matters of government are better solved at the local and state level. Wildlife from the founding of our country has been relegated as not just a state’s right, but sole ownership of the state in which they reside and as such the federal government has NO RIGHT to dictate terms of wolf management to any state or country as wolves are not listed as migratory birds and we have no treaties to declare them as such. To keep the wolf listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act is a total violation of constitutional state soigvernty and a gross interpretation of federal powers and in my opinion is another reason that we the people must stand up and fight tooth and nail to get our country back on the course of freedom and free principles and not dictates from A$$ Holes that have no rhyme or reason to be in the fight...
Big


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## Ballistic Tip (Jul 25, 2010)

The activists (and a lot of others who are not so passionate about wolves) argue that humans eliminated a vital part of the food chain when they eliminated wolves in our region. I always argue that we humans are the apex predator and we simply took out the competition - just as wolves do to coyotes and other carnivores who don't live in homes made of brick. 

I'm just glad we don't have wolves in Utah yet...but there's been some mighty big coyotes seen so far this year up north!


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

One thing about Humans being a part of nature is that we can modify our environment to suit our needs. Most other living things also modify their environment to some degree such as a beaver. But only man can modify the environment to the degree that we do. As a result of our influence in the natural world Humans pretty much have to manage everything now. Same with the wolves, they must be managed, and I believe they can be managed from a State and Federal viewpoint, *BUT ONLY IF* these stupid lawsuits from both sides cease. As long as the issues are tied up in the courts true management of the wolves can't tale place. That is not good for the wolves, not good for the hunters, not good for the ranchers, not good for the activists, and not good for the environment.

Now, I've said this before and I'll keep on saying it.....please do not think that wolf activists/anti-hunters/environmentalists are all one and the same. Sure there is overlap between the groups but they are distinct. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't call any anti-hunting groups as environmentalist (even though they may refer to themselves as environmentalists), for being anti-hunting shows a deep lack of understanding about the environment. Anyway...thats just one of my pet peeves....


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## ramrod (Apr 15, 2008)

I know this threw a new twist onto the debate and i almost didn't post it. it is just every time I try to reason with wolf activist it doesn't mater what you tell them you might as well be talking to a brick wall.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

You can't debate with someone who holds a position based on emotion instead of intellect.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> I believe wolves do have a part in the ecosystem in Yellowstone and in some wilderness areas.


Baloney! Wolves have NO place in any eco system in the lower 48. Period! That's why we got rid of the bastards in the first place. To control wolves and keep their numbers in check so you have "balance" you have to harvest 65% of the wolves in any given area ANNUALLY! That's right, 65% of them gotta go. Every year! They breed like rats, they have no natural enemys except us, and they have a 78% pup survival rate. You CAN NOT control them by hunting alone. The only way to control them to that extent is with a helicopter and a marksman. You really think that's gonna ever happen in ANY states wolf plan? NOT! We're screwed. I'll give it 5 more years and Utah is going to be suffering the same wolf wrath as ID, and MT. Oregon is getting the full brunt right now. We're next folks, hide and watch.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

+ 1 to that what Tex said. I've live just fine without them for over 60 years. THE WORLD WILL NOT BE A BETTER PLACE WITH THEM!, so why all the fuss to bring something back that cause's this much grief, anguish and hate!


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