# Lots of dead pheasants



## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I took my 2 oldest boys and a friend and we went to Burriston ponds. HOLY SMOKES was that dangerous. Guys going in every which direction. Cutting guys off, running to get infront of others, and so on. We saw 2 birds flushed by the same guys. 2 guys and 4 dogs and knocked down both birds and never found them. 
So after that Zoo experience we headed over to Sanpete county to try another area from the bird release. Right off the bat, 2 dead pheasants on the ground. Kept walking, and we saw more that 20 dead pheasants in the field that we walked. Pretty sad. The DWR officer came by to see how we did. We told him about all the dead birds. He was well aware of it. He said that once the birds were released, the hawks were in there thicker than shizzz. Wish we could get rid of some of those birds to help out the other.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

robiland said:


> He said that once the birds were released, the hawks were in there thicker than shizzz. Wish we could get rid of some of those birds to help out the other.


Well, you could and just not tell anybody about it.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

royta said:


> Well, you could and just not tell anybody about it.





Quacker Smacker
[I said:


> we were being checked at Farmington a couple seasons ago when we heard some guys in an airboat blasting away, it was probably a half hour after shooting light and the fish cop said that he couldn't do anything unless he caught them red handed[/I]





royta said:


> He probably decided against finishing his sentence with "...so why bother trying?"
> 
> Frustrating!!!


So people not following waterfowl rules is frustrating but people shooting protected birds is ok, so long as no one sees?

I had a similar experience on the south side of Utah Lake. There were way too many guys walking around with shotguns for my taste. I guess I need to go a little farther out to have some space to shoot and not get shot at.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

The frustration is from the fish cops not bothering to make an attempt at catching people breaking game laws even though they were within earshot of it.

Regarding the protected species (hawks). I'm just saying if the person feels strongly enough about it, they could do something on their own and not say anything. The wildlife biologists certainly won't do anything about the slaughtering of game birds by hawks.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

royta said:


> The frustration is the fish cops not bothering to make an attempt at people breaking game laws.
> 
> Regarding the protected species (hawks). I'm just saying if the person feels strongly enough about it, they could do something on their own and not say anything. The wildlife biologists certainly won't do anything about the slaughtering of game birds by hawks.


I don't want to hijack this thread. But, you can't be for the laws and break them. You can't complain that fish cops don't do their job and then advocate the illegal killing of protected birds.

Shooting a protected bird to protect pheasants is people breaking game laws. Doing something on your own and not saying something about it is breaking game laws.

You can't play on both sides of the ball.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

Yes, I do feel there are more predators then there should be. I don't know why hawks are protected only to be able to slaughter game birds. They're nothing more than wolves with wings. No, that attitude might not make sense to anybody but that's the way I feel.


I never said I was shooting hawks, but I'm not going to lose any sleep with somebody else decides to.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

royta said:


> Yes, I do feel there are more predators then there should be. I don't know why hawks are protected only to be able to slaughter game birds. They're nothing more than wolves with wings. No, that attitude might not make sense to anybody but that's the way I feel.
> 
> I never said I was shooting hawks, but I'm not going to lose any sleep with somebody else decides to.


I don't know that anyone would disagree with our predator situation. But that's irrelevant. The law is the law.

Poachers are poachers. You can't be fine with some poaching and mad about other poaching.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

Dodger said:


> I don't know that anyone would disagree with our predator situation. But that's irrelevant. The law is the law.
> 
> Poachers are poachers. You can't be fine with some poaching and mad about other poaching.


I don't disagree with you at all, poachers are poachers.

What can I say? I make absolutely no sense to some people. I'll go ballistic if somebody shoots a sharptail grouse where there is no season. I won't let my kids shoot a cottontail unless it is in season and they plan to eat it. I wouldn't let my kids shoot a chipmunk this last Saturday while we were out hiking. But I'm not going to lose any sleep if somebody decides to shoot a wolf or if somebody decides to shoot a hawk. I guess I would rather see more huntable game animals and less protected animals that prey on the game animals.


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

robiland said:


> I took my 2 oldest boys and a friend and we went to Burriston ponds. HOLY SMOKES was that dangerous. Guys going in every which direction. Cutting guys off, running to get infront of others, and so on. We saw 2 birds flushed by the same guys. 2 guys and 4 dogs and knocked down both birds and never found them.
> So after that Zoo experience we headed over to Sanpete county to try another area from the bird release. Right off the bat, 2 dead pheasants on the ground. Kept walking, and we saw more that 20 dead pheasants in the field that we walked. Pretty sad. The DWR officer came by to see how we did. We told him about all the dead birds. He was well aware of it. He said that once the birds were released, the hawks were in there thicker than shizzz. Wish we could get rid of some of those birds to help out the other.


I walked the same WMA in Ftn. Green the week before the opener and counted 67 dead pheasants, mostly roosters. Eagles & hawks had a buffet. As far as Burraston & Nephi WMA I had the same experiance as you, hunting with far too many tards. I cant believe someone has not been shot or seriously hurt. I shot a rooster and on the way down some guy shot it as well! So before it hit the ground I blasted it with my full choke at about 25 feet.I hope he enjoyed his mutilated bird, I told him to come and get it and he just scoffed at me. Oh well tard with a mowhawk got what he deserved.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

What we need to do is simply make these areas LE hunting units! Besides the obvious benefit of reducing overcrowding, we could start managing for rosters with enormously long tails. We could then give some of the "conservation" groups free tickets so they could make a little money for free. You guys could all start saving up your points(or just drop a few thou to the conservation group and buy a permit) and after a few years waiting you might finally get a chance for a quality hunt for a "quality" bird!


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

The answer is, if you want to hunt pheasants with less crowded results, as a sportsmen offer to help farmers, encourage the DWR to fix the predator problem and the wild pheasants problem with more and better habitat in the state. Encourage more land purchases, more public hunting land with pheasant habitat, the eradication of predators of pheasants, and conservation money for pheasants some how. If people would show more and better interest without the "give up" on pheasants stand, the DWR would be more prone to do something. That's more than likely what this pheasant release was for was to remind people how fun pheasants used to be to hunt, and with a little help they could come back, but if releases are made they must be wild birds from somewhere else, not pen raised. I know a broken record, but each of you has a voice, you want to hunt pheasants and have it be fun again where we're not all crowded on 100 acres ten feet apart, start trapping and killing every skunk, fox, raccoon, and coyote in your area. A study was done and 60% of pheasants are killed by mammalian predators, 80% of those were killed by foxes. Skunks and raccoons are the main culprits when it comes to nesting hens and they'll kill the hen and eat the eggs. Predators of both the air and ground are very good at what they do that's how they survive. So start making a difference by planting for pheasants on your land if you own any, let the DWR know of your interest to influence what happens from here on with pheasant hunting, and start eradicating predators. That's how the problems will be fixed, if not, and all we can do is give problems, then no solution will be made.

As for hawks, I hate that they are protected, and especially we can't kill crows in the state. There are tons of crows and lots of hawks, I've never understood how you manage the prey, but allow the predator birds to go un-managed and un-controlled. I know of a few CO who don't like it either it would be nice to see it change but it won't. I wouldn't loose any sleep knowing a hawk or crow went down, and I'd probably turn the other way.


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

BPturkeys said:


> What we need to do is simply make these areas LE hunting units! Besides the obvious benefit of reducing overcrowding, we could start managing for rosters with enormously long tails. We could then give some of the "conservation" groups free tickets so they could make a little money for free. You guys could all start saving up your points(or just drop a few thou to the conservation group and buy a permit) and after a few years waiting you might finally get a chance for a quality hunt for a "quality" bird!


I don't think I can take your post seriously. It sounds as messed up as a soup sandwich.


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

I should have finnished my post. After hanging with the dinks on the wma's I retreated to a fine slice of private ground and nailed the birds. I just wish folks would exercise some common courtesy and common sense when hunting public ground, if not someone is going to get hurt or worse.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

royta said:


> Yes, I do feel there are more predators then there should be. I don't know why hawks are protected only to be able to slaughter game birds. They're nothing more than wolves with wings. No, that attitude might not make sense to anybody but that's the way I feel.
> 
> I never said I was shooting hawks, but I'm not going to lose any sleep with somebody else decides to.


If the success of your pathic Utah pheasant hunt depends on the survival of a bunch of stupid pen raised birds, then you guys have bigger issues then hawks.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

blackdog said:


> If the success of your pathic Utah pheasant hunt depends on the survival of a bunch of stupid pen raised birds, then you guys have bigger issues then hawks.


Did I say anything about stupid pen raised birds? You didn't notice the repeated argument from others that stupid pen raised birds WILL NOT boost the bird population? Wow, I don't know what to say.

I'm pretty sure the biggest argument mentioned in this thread that will boost wild bird numbers is to decrease the predator numbers.

Good argument on your part though.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Really, So the you think the number one thing to boost wild bird numbers in Utah is predator control??? 

I hunt Idaho a lot and just got back from North Dakota. I'm pretty sure both states have more predators than Utah does, yet they have more Phez, weird.

Sorry to break this to you guys, Utah doesn't have good pheasant numbers because Utah doesn't have good pheasant habitat and never will, but keep blaming the hawks, it sounds good and adverts attention away from the real issue.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

blackdog said:


> Really, So the you think the number one thing to boost wild bird numbers in Utah is predator control???
> 
> I hunt Idaho a lot and just got back from North Dakota. I'm pretty sure both states have more predators than Utah does, yet they have more Phez, weird.
> 
> Sorry to break this to you guys, Utah doesn't have good pheasant numbers because Utah doesn't have good pheasant habitat and never will, but keep blaming the hawks, it sounds good and adverts attention away from the real issue.


Keep singing this song. Predators are a huge factor in Utah because birds in Utah especially in winter are concentrated to smaller portions of habitat. That makes predation a much bigger issue. Utah is not Idaho, look at Utah don't come up with ideas from different situations.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

blackdog said:


> Really, So the you think the number one thing to boost wild bird numbers in Utah is predator control???


Even if it's number two, or even three, are you saying we shouldn't do anything about the predators? It almost sounds like you're saying that if we don't do anything about habitat, that we should give up.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

royta said:


> Even if it's number two, or even three, are you saying we shouldn't do anything about the predators? It almost sounds like you're saying that if we don't do anything about habitat, that we should give up.


Habitat needs a lot done with it, but most of that's in the DWRs hands. Predators are in ours pick up some traps and start the controlling initiative, and each sportsmen can make a difference.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> Habitat needs a lot done with it, but most of that's in the DWRs hands. Predators are in ours pick up some traps and start the controlling initiative, and each sportsmen can make a difference.


I couldn't agree more.

I had never seen a duke dog proof raccoon trap until last Friday. They look like the hot setup, and they're inexpensive. I'm looking forward to trapping some raccoons. I know my kids are too.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

royta said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> I had never seen a duke dog proof raccoon trap until last Friday. They look like the hot setup, and they're inexpensive. I'm looking forward to trapping some raccoons. I know my kids are too.


Good hope you get a lot of them. I haven't used the "****" only trap, but I've heard they work pretty well. I use normal foot traps but you do catch skunks and they can be nor to fun. But skunks are part of the problem as well so I decided to deal with it even though its unpleasant. Keep up the good work.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Utah can have a population of birds.. as it does already. I do think that Phez are behind the 8 ball and really our state does not focus on them anyway. But it stil brings me back to the days some years back that there was many more pheasants. I live in the basin for 13 years. Well after the haydays some of the old talk about. Now much of the land has not changed. Some has but not all the tribe land is basiclly the same as it ever was. What one common facter that i noticed in them 13 years of huinting there is the amount of *****. Probley the last 8 years I have not went a season that I did not have a dog tangle in some way with a ****. Not to mention the tracks along any water way. 

Now like Blackdog said there is more birds and land and etc... well ya your right but that is what they are is farm land, just as we are set up for Elk. Ya see a lot of Elk back there??? That does not mean we can not have a better population. I will also admit... farming practices are much different these days than when there was grundles of birds. Also lets not forget this releasing birds is not a new thing, Utah is not the only state that does it. And fact is all these so called WILD BIRDS we have. I promise you can ling them back to pen raised birds!!!


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Here is you some reading on pen raised birds...

http://quail-tech.org/NewsLetterArchive.htm


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

In my search I also see that South Dakota releases pen birds every year! I did not know that, heard it before but was not sure....


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

If you want to release birds to improve the wild population in one area you need to trap wild birds from another. Survival rates are significantly better with wild birds. Where do you always see wild birds (atleast on the Wasatch front)? In pastures/fields in the city where you can't hunt bird. I live in Lehi near several pastures and fields. The other morning I was sitting at an intersection with pastures on each corner, I counted 25 birds crossing the street, good healthy roosters with LONG tails and healthy hens. It's a shame the DWR doesn't do a trapping program like with the quail, where you can pick up a trap set it and catch the birds for them to release. Only at certain times of year of course. I think that would be a significantly better option than the dumb pen raised birds that are being released. Habitat needs are a significant issue, and we all need to work on predator control as well. Maybe it wouldn't work at all, who knows.


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## Dodger (Oct 20, 2009)

Dodger said:


> I don't know that anyone would disagree with our predator situation. But that's irrelevant. The law is the law.
> 
> Poachers are poachers. You can't be fine with some poaching and mad about other poaching.


http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27788515&ni...stigation-from-dwr&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-7


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