# A little help, please?



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

The "how many points" thread got me thinking that I may be missing some great opportunities by not applying in other states.

So...I'm wanting Antelope, Elk and Deer as well as Bear if possible.

If it were you, what state, unit # or letter, season and species would you be applying for? I'm going to implement the suggestions mixed with my own research findings come next year's app period.

Also, I'm neither against nor for hiring an outfitter in said state when I finally draw so if it's a decent DIY unit and you have any experience or place to start hunting, I'd of course welcome the input.

Thanks in advance to anyone that helps me with this late in life decision.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It all depends on what you want in a animal. If you want a 350 inch elk then it will take quite a few points to draw a premium unit in Colorado and Wyoming but both states have OTC units that you can find one in. Deer are the same way but Colorado is all draw and I believe that Wyoming is mostly draw.

For bear I would just head up to Idaho and get a OTC tag, it is that simple. Also if you would like a wilderness hunt 23 miles from the nearest road with lots of bears I can let you know of a outfitter in British Colombia that will pack you into the area and set you up in some nice cabins for the hunt. The last that I looked his hunts are around $4000 for a black bear.

I just looked and it is $4500 for a 7 day black bear hunt. Here is his web site. The top cabin is at the jump off point and the one on the bottom is the one 20 or so miles into the wilderness. 
http://www.abarzoutfitters.com./index.php


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks Critter.

I have no reason to go all the way to BC to get a bear when there are bears to be had closer to home. Although it does sound like a great time!

For some reason I've been thinking Arizona for Elk, Wyoming for Mule Deer and Antelope, Colorado for Sheep and Deer.

I know there are a handful of great units in all the SW states and I'd really like to hunt them one day.

If I go so far north as BC, I'd be tempted to go a bit further and hit Alaska for a Moose. The real dream is NZ for Red Stag but that's a LONG ways off.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You need to find my Africa story and start dreaming. 

The nice thing about Africa is that you can do it on a budget and almost get your fill of hunting in a week........well almost. 

For Arizona you need to purchase a hunting license to put in for the draws and that can get expensive quite quick if you don't go down there after small game or put in for a almost sure tag for a javelina. Colorado has also caught on to the fact that hunters will spend money to get points, so they will keep $40 I believe of your money if you want the preference point. Sheep in Colorado take a lifetime to draw unless you are lucky. You have to put in for 3 years before you are even considered for the bonus point draw. Wyoming you can just purchase a point every year until you think that you have enough.

Playing the point game can get real expensive real quick.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Wyoming is my favorite state to hunt in because of the opportunity and I'll use it as an example - sorry Goob!

This year I didn't draw the antelope tag that I wanted, but they had a boatload of leftover buck tags. So I picked a new unit and purchased a leftover tag. As of 11:44 on Friday night, there are still 2,183 leftover buck antelope tags. Wyoming PP/BP is open now and you can start accumulating points THIS year! Region H has some good deer and it seems like a person can draw the special tag with 2-3 points. 

This might sound stupid, but I think a person needs to do a 5 year plan, 10 year plan, 15 year plan, etc. for hunts and start saving $20-$50 a month, if possible, for hunts. 

Critter - I looked up your Africa thread, what an adventure!


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

It all comes down to how much money you have available, and how much you want to spend. You could easily spend thousands applying every year, and put thousands more up front for tag fees.

Wyoming is the obvious winner for antelope IMO, and has good opportunity for other species as well. As mentioned, you can still buy points for next year right now. They can be expensive, depending on the species.

You have to buy an expensive nonresident license to apply in Arizona, Nevada, or Idaho (and maybe others), so those aren't great options if you can't spend a lot. You have to pay the entire tag fee up front in Colorado, Wyoming, and Idaho (and maybe others), so those aren't great options if you don't have a large pool of money on hand to send out for awhile.

I have extensively researched the way the draws work in many western states. Feel free to post up or pm specific questions and I'll try to send on what I know. It is important to understand the ins and outs of the draw process in each state you apply for.

I recommend using the huntin' fool guide as a research tool to get started. Be warned that it won't tell you everything, though.

I'd take a good look at Colorado and Wyoming to get started. If you ever want to hunt Nevada, I'd recommend applying ASAP. It has a highly effective bonus point system, so getting started early will help more than in many other states.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Also, don't be afraid to reach out to Cabelas TAGS. For a small fee, they will upfront the money and then, no explanation is needed to your significant other why you have to send off $10,000 in upfront tag fees and that you'll get it all back in a couple months if you don't draw!


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

CPAjeff said:


> Also, don't be afraid to reach out to Cabelas TAGS. For a small fee, they will upfront the money and then, no explanation is needed to your significant other why you have to send off $10,000 in upfront tag fees and that you'll get it all back in a couple months if you don't draw!


Once again, it comes down to having money vs. spending money. I would have spent at least another $500 this year if I had used Cabela's TAGS for my applications. But at the same time, I would have been able to apply for a lot more tags. At this point in my life, though, it made more sense to put as much money as I could up front (which wasn't a lot), knowing I'd get it back, than to spend a lot. Everyone will be different in that regard.

To the OP:

I noticed that you mentioned Colorado for sheep. Colorado is a bit of an inconvenient sheep state to apply in for nonresidents. As Critter mentioned, you need to get 3 points for Rocky Mountain sheep before you're even considered in the draw. They make you apply by mail if you're a nonresident. You have to submit an online request for their application brochure, wait a few weeks for it to come in the mail, then fill it out and send it back with a cashier's check for the full tag fee (which is a bit more than $2,000, even if you're just buying a point) plus a small application fee. In the end it doesn't cost much to apply, but they will have your money for awhile, and it's a pain.

I tell you this simply so you know that you will need to plan ahead if you want to apply for sheep there. You can't wait until a few days before the deadline to begin the process.

Colorado runs a weighted preference point draw for Rocky Mountain sheep, much like Utah does, except that no tags are reserved for top point holders. The demand is such that you can't ever really plan on drawing. You just have to cross your fingers and hope for the best.

Some of the best sheep odds out there are for Colorado's archery tags. If archery sheep hunting sounds appealing to you, I would absolutely encourage you to go for it. While odds aren't fantastic, you do have a fighting chance of drawing if you're in it for the long haul.

Alternatively, you can apply for Colorado's Desert sheep tags (you must choose either Desert or Rocky Mountain sheep). Historically, there has been one nonresident tag available per year. There are no bonus points for the Desert tags, so you don't need to wait three years to get your name in the hat, and your odds are the same as everyone else. If you're old enough where you don't think the point system will ever help you out, that may be a better option. On the whole, however, odds are better on the Rocky Mountain Bighorn tags.

Most of my research has been on sheep applications. Any more questions, just send a PM.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Great info so far, it is extremely appreciated.

I like the idea of buying points this year for Wyoming and will plan to do so. I also like the idea of an OTC tag from Idaho for bear.

I do not have unlimited funds but if it's for a hunt I really want, I'm willing to pay up front and wait to get it back. What I do not want to do is waste my money on a easy to draw unit with no public land or animals to speak of.

My fall for 2016 is already kind of full with Cow and GS deer here in Utah so anything I do will come into play next year.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

What you need to do is to sit down and find out what you really want out of a hunt. Some people want a 350 bull elk, 200 mule deer, and 80 antelope. There are two ways of getting opportunities to get trophy animals. One is to wait for a legendary unit and the other is to put as many quality tags in your pocket as you can. Find a plan of what strategy that you want to take. Then research and apply. 

Research: I have found that Gohunt is a lot better than huntin' fool as far as information. I would only get huntin' fool if you enjoy the magazine articles, it is JV comparted to Gohunt. Gohunt allows you to sort by draw odds, trophy potential, or harvest success. You can find units to hunt even if they are not Trophy units, which is something that Huntin' fool lacks. Gohunt has a lot more information and is more user friendly than Huntin' fool.

Apply: 

Arizona: You can hunt Coues deer or Javelina every so often on your way to an elk tag. The late elk rifle tags are doable within 5-10 years. Pronghorn in Arizona is a really tough draw, but there is a lot of trophy potential. It is around $200 a year to apply to Arizona. I apply to hopefully hunt elk on the Mongollon Rim.

Colorado: You can hunt Elk every year on your way to a draw deer or elk unit. For draw units being behind the ball in a 100% preference point system, I would look at units with a 1st or 4th rifle with better draw odds. Colorado does require tag fees up front, which is around $1,400 a year. More if you want to put in for the OIL's.

Idaho: You can hunt Elk/Deer/Bear every year on your way to drawing a decent tag. Their draw is in June, so you have time to go through all of the states before you apply. It is a lottery system, with tag fees up front, and is up to 10% for NR's. It is not a great draw state, because resident tags are cheap and you have to compete with them. It is a state to put in, if you have a OTC elk/deer tag in mind if you are unsuccessful. It is around $1200 every year to apply. 

Montana: No reason to apply to Montana unless you are going to hunt it. You have to buy a deer/elk tag to apply for the draw. The same situation as Idaho, but in a point system. It isn't worth applying for deer/elk, but pronghorn can be worth it. Some areas are very underrated as far as pronghorn go. It is around $1,200 a year to apply in Montana. 

New Mexico - Another lottery state with only 6% of the tags going to non residents. New Mexico does have an option to refund the license of $65 if unsuccessful. This makes it an interesting option despite of only 6% of the tags. 10% of the tags go to guided hunters, which can be an option. Another option that New Mexico has are landowner tags that can be bought. They let you bypass the draw and some allow you to hunt the whole unit and others allow you to hunt the private land only. The tag fees are up front in New Mexico and depending on the species it may only cost you $40 a year being unsuccessful. It will be around $1500 to apply.

Nevada: If you didn't have the funds to apply to all states, I would leave Nevada off of the list. Great hunting is to be had if you can draw a hunt in Nevada, but the issue is drawing a hunt. Nevada is a bonus point squared state and has a limited amount of tags for all species. Nevada is a great option for big animals, but odds are that you will wait a while. It is around $225 a year to apply to Nevada. 

Wyoming - Wyoming has an option of bypassing the draw and buying points instead. Wyoming general elk has more big bulls killed every year than the LQ units. It is a tag that can be drawn with 1-3 points regular and 1-2 in the special draw. Wyoming deer is another draw that bigger animals are killed in the general units, than in the LQ areas every year. The LQ deer and elk areas are easier areas to hunt and contain a better chance at killing something big for an individual hunter. Wyoming region G is the best tag in the state for deer and it a 5-7 year draw in the regular and a 4-6 year draw in the special. Antelope in Wyoming has gained huge popularity. Areas that were once 1-2 points are not 3-4 points. It is a waiting game, unless you use the tools available to hunt the public land intermingled with private. There are a lot of people that buy leftover tags that use this system for their advantage. Wyoming does require fees up front and will refund most of it if unsuccessful.

Search Randy Newberg Hunter on YouTube. He has a break down of all of the states in watcher friendly videos. 

Also, I would not use Cabela's tags. It is a lot of money to just apply. I would save up and have a hunting fund to apply.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> What you need to do is to sit down and find out what you really want out of a hunt. Some people want a 350 bull elk, 200 mule deer, and 80 antelope........


Excellent post and a very large amount of helpful information Muscle, thank you!


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## Fitzwho (Jul 9, 2016)

How I apply:
Arizona: Elk, PH, Sheep, Bison, Mule Deer/Coues - $15/species plus $160 license
Colorado: Only applied for Mule Deer - $30-40 app fee plus upfront tag $321, refunded if unsuccessful (next year will be applying for Mule Deer and Pronghorn)
Nevada: didn't get my hunter's education proof sent in to the state in time to apply this year, but will be applying for all species next year at a total cost of about $280 based off of this year's application fees
Utah: All species since its a non-float state
Idaho: Didn't apply this year, will probably only apply for Mt. Goats next year. There are OTC hunts for Elk, Deer, bear, and cougars, so I don't plan on bothering with applications for those species.
Wyoming: Be buying bonus points this season.
New Mexico: Only applied for Deer. Drew a Muzzie Mule Deer tag, from what I have seen on the leftovers, you can pick a 1st choice Mule Deer and 2nd choice Coues hunt and draw one of the two for the most part (my plan for next year)
Montana: Lots of leftovers this year if you plan on buying early.
Alaska: OTC Sitka Blacktail hunts, and good odds on bears (_I actually drew a Kuiu Island Black Bear tag for this year, if I get to go it will end up being in the spring_) as well as draws for bison, Roosevelt Elk, caribou, goats, sheep, etc. Apps are $5-$20 each depending on species if I remember right, plus the $85 license.

Depending on what you want to do, there are lots of leftovers and OTC (opportunity) hunts:
Alaska Blacktails
Arizona usually has some Coues deer tags leftover in the border units, as well as OTC Black Bear and Mt. Lions
California actually has OTC hunts for Blacktail and Mule Deer, with Black Bear Available (tags run around $280 for each)
Colorado obviously has OTC Elk for 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons
Idaho: Mule Deer, Elk, Black Bear, and lions all OTC (wolves as well)
Oregon: Columbia Blacktail, Roosevelt Elk and Black Bear
New Mexico: Leftovers for Coues/MD, with OTC bears and lions (don't forget Aoudad depending on where you are hunting)
Wyoming usually has some leftover mule deer and pronghorn tags in areas with large amounts of private land.
Washington: Deer/Elk Combo ($739) with your pick of Columbia Blacktail, Whitetails, Mule Deer, as well as both Rocky Mountain and Roosevelt Elk.

I got pretty lucky drawing tags in Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, (and Utah of course) in my first year actually applying. So the most bonus points I have for any species is now at 1. As somebody else mentioned, GoHunt.com has been a wealth of knowledge in putting together my application strategies for each state. I used HuntinFool and Peterson's Hunting Magazines as well.

As far as Cabela's TAGS is concerned, I did not use it this year. I ended up only putting in two applications that I had to float the cash. I got one of these tags and Colorado had my refund back to me within a week. That being said, there are about 5 tags that I am thinking that I may use it for next year depending on how I feel about it (most of those are tags that I just don't feel like being out 2 grand each for a couple months)


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## Fitzwho (Jul 9, 2016)

I guess my main goal with applying in as many states as I can afford is to be able to track and have 2-4 hunts every fall, while I am waiting on some of the more enviable tags. Don't want to draw a San Juan Elk tag sometime down the road, having never actually hunted elk. Building points and changing my Unit choices every year should allow me to build points for a unit that meets my trophy potential, while allowing me to be able to just build points if I get the finances and the hankering to go somewhere like Newfoundland, Alaska, Africa or wherever to get something a bit more exotic.

Need to start in on Caribou pretty quick, so I am trying to get a Woodland Caribou hunt lined up for next year before they get too expensive.


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