# Anybody else notice this?



## Catherder

The past few years, I have spent a fair bit of time in the spring, fall, and winter on the Lower Provo. This should not be considered terribly surprising, since the river runs right by my office and I can be from the office to the "blue ribbon" section in about 10-15 minutes. As many of you know, the predominant fish numerically in there is the brown trout, with a smaller but stable population of chunky rainbow trout as well. While I'm a looooong ways from mastering this river, I usually have pretty decent action when I go up and I generally use similar flies and rigging each trip.

Anyways I've noticed 4 types of trips when I go up there.

1. Both the browns and rainbows are biting well. (those tend to be the epic days)

2. I catch almost all browns and few to no rainbows.

3. I catch rainbows and few browns.

4. Both species aren't biting much. (the duds)

I've noticed this in other multispecies fisheries too, and not just flyfishing. One species is going off, but others that are around are slow. Sometimes, it switches around in a single trip. I've always wondered why that is.

Anyways, today was a rainbow day up there. 



Hey, numbskull, next time get the indicator away from the camera before taking the picture.









A few browns did also show up to provide some tugs, just to tell me they were still there, but they were outnumbered by the bows in the count.


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## Kwalk3

I've definitely noticed the same thing on he Lower Provo. For whatever reason I've come to prefer the rainbow days. Nothing better than pulling some of those footballs out of the deeper holes. 

That said, I wouldn't complain about a day with mostly Browns either. Looks like a good day on the river!


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## GaryFish

Those bows look like chewed up hatchery rejects. 

And a bobber? Fishing with a bobber? Really? As I always tell one of my fishing buddies that likes to nymph, "If' I'd known you were gonna be bait fishin', I wouldn't a brought ya!"

Cool pics though. Love that lower Provo. In the years I used to fish it regularly, the only places I'd catch rainbows were the first mile below Deer Creek, and then in Provo, in the section between Food 4 Less and 5th West. Browns everywhere else in between.


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## Packfish

Gary- it was the bows birthday and it was just sporting a birthday balloon-


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## Catherder

GaryFish said:


> Those bows look like chewed up hatchery rejects.
> 
> And a bobber? Fishing with a bobber? Really? As I always tell one of my fishing buddies that likes to nymph, "If' I'd known you were gonna be bait fishin', I wouldn't a brought ya!"
> 
> Cool pics though. Love that lower Provo. In the years I used to fish it regularly, the only places I'd catch rainbows were the first mile below Deer Creek, and then in Provo, in the section between Food 4 Less and 5th West. Browns everywhere else in between.


1. "Those bows look like chewed up hatchery rejects. "

Only #4 was torn up, the other bows had pristine fins still. That was a shame because #4 is a tank. Whereas, they don't plant the AFL section, and I caught him a long ways upstream from Vivian park, where they do occasionally throw in a few worn out brood stock, I suspect he got sloshed out of Deer creek at some point and lost a big chunk of caudal fin in the experience.

2. "And a bobber? Fishing with a bobber? Really? As I always tell one of my fishing buddies that likes to nymph, "If' I'd known you were gonna be bait fishin', I wouldn't a brought ya!"

Yeah, yeah, I use a bobber. I also use a graphite rod instead of bamboo, wear a dirty broncos ball cap instead of a tweed one, and fish in grubby, dirty 9 year old waders. (at least they are Simms;-) ) I sometimes even fish in my work attire and look like a total dork. I'm an anti purist. What can I say.  There wasn't a whole lot happening there yesterday for the dry fly elitist. ;-)

3. "Cool pics though. Love that lower Provo. In the years I used to fish it regularly, the only places I'd catch rainbows were the first mile below Deer Creek, and then in Provo, in the section between Food 4 Less and 5th West. Browns everywhere else in between."

I think things have changed some now. I catch decent bows throughout the entire "blue ribbon" section and in conversing with guides and other knowledgable types I know, it seems that they sustain themselves largely by natural reproduction. I think a few also get sloshed out of DC like our pal #4 too. It's really nice to have the bows there. They get pretty big and fat there and their numbers are such that they don't stunt, like the browns sometimes do. It seems like the browns are getting bigger too the last 2 years.


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## CVHunter INACTIVE

It's funny people talking trash on someone else's successful technique. Fish aren't always hitting dry flys. Guess you just stay home on those days?


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## Kwalk3

Purists.....😯😉


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## Jedidiah

You work in the Riverwoods area too? I better watch out what I say about Utah Lake in the parking lot, I might get punched in the mouth.

About the LoPro purists, I do enjoy drifting my favorite bait in view of a guy in $800 worth of gear using a $800 rod, hitting every visible part of the river with laser beam accuracy because I'm using a water filled bobber, catching my limit in an hour and putting them in the oven while he's still trying to get the perfect presentation on a PMD 10 feet in front of him. But you know...to each their own.


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## GaryFish

Catherder knows I'm just messing with him a little bit. 

But - it should be noted that fish pictures with the bobber showing deduct at least 1-2 hunting cred points, unless they also show a fly tied with feathers from a ptarmigan, in which case, it increases the forum cred score. Yea, I know it's an obscure rule, for sure down in the fine print - but an important one too!


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## Catherder

GaryFish said:


> Catherder knows I'm just messing with him a little bit.
> 
> But - it should be noted that fish pictures with the bobber showing deduct at least 1-2 hunting cred points, unless they also show a fly tied with feathers from a ptarmigan, in which case, it increases the forum cred score. Yea, I know it's an obscure rule, for sure down in the fine print - but an important one too!


Yeah, it was a rough day in the cred department. The sowbugs I was getting them on were all bought from Sportsmans Warehouse and not tied by me, (-1 cred) I had the river to myself because it is a bit off color, whereas a REAL fly angler catches a bunch of fish in a crowded river, (-1) as well as the aforementioned bobber deduction, which is deserved. I'm a loser.-)O(-

I think I am a lost cause in the cred department too. Can you tie a sowbug with ptarmigan feathers? I did get one on a hares ear nymph. Maybe I could use ptarmigan to tie those.

Probably moot because Goob is the only person I know that has ptarmigan feathers and he probably uses the feathers in some exotic recipe. ;-)


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## Packfish

Man was a red flag thrown ? Technical foul


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## Kwalk3

Catherder said:


> Yeah, it was a rough day in the cred department. The sowbugs I was getting them on were all bought from Sportsmans Warehouse and not tied by me, (-1 cred) I had the river to myself because it is a bit off color, whereas a REAL fly angler catches a bunch of fish in a crowded river, (-1) as well as the aforementioned bobber deduction, which is deserved. I'm a loser.-)O(-
> 
> I think I am a lost cause in the cred department too. Can you tie a sowbug with ptarmigan feathers? I did get one on a hares ear nymph. Maybe I could use ptarmigan to tie those.
> 
> Probably moot because Goob is the only person I know that has ptarmigan feathers and he probably uses the feathers in some exotic recipe. ;-)


I think Goob mostly saves Ptarmigan feathers for garnish. It increases the cred of every dish he makes.


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## wyogoob




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## HighNDry

CVHunter said:


> It's funny people talking trash on someone else's successful technique. Fish aren't always hitting dry flys. Guess you just stay home on those days?


Hmmm. Better hone up on your skillz. I always use dry flies and haven't had a day where fish aren't hitting them especially on the Provo.


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## CVHunter INACTIVE

I've never fished the Provo. However I do fish a lot. And although it may be possible to catch fish on a dry any time. It isn't going to be the best or most effective way all the time . Also some of the better rivers have so much going on under water that fish almost never rise. Fish how you want. Good for you. If you won't ever throw a nymph rig. Your game is week.


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## CVHunter INACTIVE

I may have taken the first comments wrong. Sorry about that if that's the case. Stupid to take anything to seriously on an internet forum. For all any one knows I don't even own a fly rod.


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## HighNDry

:mrgreen:
My game is weak. But it's my game. >>O
And aren't YOU talking trash on someone else's successful technique?
Fish don't always have to be rising to fish dries. Part of the fun is to get them to rise.
Anyway, someone once said, "We all fish for pleasure, I for mine and you for yours." 
Smile, tip your hat, and carry on.


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## stevo1

wyogoob said:


>


Nothing says dung like ptarmigan dung.


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## GaryFish

HighNDry said:


> :mrgreen:
> My game is weak. But it's my game. >>O
> And aren't YOU talking trash on someone else's successful technique?
> Fish don't always have to be rising to fish dries. Part of the fun is to get them to rise.
> Anyway, someone once said, "We all fish for pleasure, I for mine and you for yours."
> Smile, tip your hat, and carry on.


Is this your way of saying you are a bait fisherman too? ;-)


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## Catherder

GaryFish said:


> Is this your way of saying you are a bait fisherman too? ;-)


I suspect that Chris Christie is about as likely to go with the salad or Ted Nugent to join PETA as HND is likely to use bait. (For newcomers to the thread, that means using a nymph fly under a strike indicator.)

(Semi)Seriously, Gary, I think these rants by you about "bait fishing" is indicative that you are sulking about the dry fly hatches ending on the great streams in your neck of the woods. Do us all a favor and for heavens sake, go tie some scuds and hares ears, have your wife go to the fly shop and purchase a bag of indicators (I know, as a purist, you can't be caught dead buying such contraband), and go to one of the nearby blue ribbon streams and have some fun. You might then realize what you were missing and quit badgering us dirtbags having fun fishing nymphs in the autumn. ;-) I promise your fancypants bamboo rod will not spontaneously combust if you do.


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## GaryFish

I like your suggestion Catherder. But the real problem is that the great streams in my neck of the woods are just pretenders. The South Fork and Henry's are both tailwater fisheries. Might as well be fishing an irrigation canal! A proper fly fisherman would never insult his split cane rod on a tailwater. Sheesh. Do I have to teach you everything?

Lesson #1 - Bamboo rods are only to be used when casting traditional dry flies (none of that parachute junk, or even flies tied with synthetic fibers) cast upstream on a wild (never dammed) stream, to wild, native trout. So the South Fork will never be graced with me fishing it with one of my bamboo rods.

Lesson #2 - Non-bamboo rods are for tailwaters, and since you are going there, might as well just chuck bait fished on your plastic fly lines with a bobber. (Wooly buggers and egg patterns are actually working really well right now on the south fork, with a couple of split shot about 20 inches above the fly to get it down on the bottom) 

Lesson #3 - All else fails, keep the spinning rod in the car, as well as a bottle of balls-o-fire salmon eggs, some night crawlers, and an assortment of Mepps, Rooster Tail, and Blue Fox spinners to save the day when you can't match the hatch. (Best fish I took this year on the Henry's Fork was on a blue fox at the Ashton boat ramp) 


On a different note, I picked up a couple of no-name bamboo rods off of eBay this year for a song, just to use as decoration in my basement. But one of them actually is pretty decent. I just might need to match it up proper with a line and see if I can catch a fish with it. It's been 15 years since I fished any of my old bamboo rods. This one I picked up just might see some stream time next summer.


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## Catherder

Dang, if I had that many quality flyfishing waters near me, I'd swear off bassin. (don't think I could give up ice fishing though) Obviously, I've never had a hangup fishing tailwaters.;-) (or using indicators, graphite, nymphs, glow bugs,etc, etc.) 

I fear I'm too far gone to be taught otherwise. :sad:


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## GaryFish

The South Fork is looking REALLY nice right now. Flows are at winter levels - all irrigation has been turned off so just minimum flows. So it is wadable in the areas near my house which is nice. And the browns are getting frisky. I'm dying to get out and do some fishing. My office is on the south fork of the Teton in Rexburg, but the irrigation company shut off all flows to it this year - twice and let it dry completely up on two different occasions. But in the pools by the office, lots of little new hatched fish swimming around so that will be good for next year if they don't turn it off again. Urrrrgggggg!!!

As for the nymph fishing talk - reminds me of the old song "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with." Why fish dry flies? Because it is beautiful. But if it can't be beautiful, then at least make it functional. ;-)


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## Flyfishn247

I used to fish the Lower religiously and have noticed a lot of what you observe Catherder. The last 5 years or so I have ceased fishing from mid-May to September, something about non-stop college coeds splashing about in tubes all day to ruin the moment, plus I have been more focused on still water efforts and hidden gems in the summer with dry flies. 

One observation I have made is I catch more rainbows vs browns on specific patterns. I have mastered a sow pattern specifically for the lower that almost feels like cheating that I use when fishing is slow and I don't want to be skunked. Recently I have been spending more time trying to strip streamers, partly due to time spent on stillwater, but mostly because fishing the same way in the same holes for years gets a bit mundane. Dry flies work year around, I enjoy it, but I prefer to move a lot when throwing dries and the crowds on the Provo tend to reduce opportunity. About 10 years ago, I was catching several small cuts that were beautiful in color, but all seemed to have deformed pectoral fins, maybe they were chewed off by larger fish. I haven't caught many the last few years. I also have years where I catch an abnormal amount of big whitefish, they put up a great fight but sure are ugly. 

I typically catch higher ratios of bows and whites on small midge pupae/emergers, a higher ratio of browns on things with more meat like big sows or streamers. Fish caught on dries are typically smaller. But don't let small flies lead you to believe you will catch smaller fish, my biggest bow, a 24" pig, was caught on a size 22 rainbow midge. The fish on the Provo are educated, people think they need a super secret whizbang fly no one else has or that matches a hatch perfectly. Some of my best success has been from using the most popular patters, just tied really small. They are a pain to tie, but try size 22 and 24 prince nymphs with no bead, or a size 22 chamois caddis. 

I love the Lower, but as I get older I find I would rather catch smaller fish on more secluded waters.


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## neverdrawn

Why in the world hasn't anyone figured out how to make a strike indicator out of a Ptarmigan feather? That would satisfy everyone and save some fishing cred!:grin:


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## Catherder

Last month, when I started this thread, I forgot one more category of trip that occasionally occurs up there. This afternoon, I had the last category happen to me.

What is it? It's whitefishpalooza and the trout giving me the middle finger. Since the whites are big, morbidly obese, and fight hard, I didn't mind that it was a near fail in catching trout.

A couple of pics. Look at the gut on these things. (OK, these are likely females full of eggs)







I did say near fail on the trout. Fortunately, it wasn't total. ;-)


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## GaryFish

Nice. No shame in catching whitefish. 

20 years ago, we were fishing the Henry's Fork at RR Ranch. Just couldn't match the PMDs close enough, and couldn't get a trout to hit. At the head of the island at Herriman SP, was a great little riffle. I quickly found fish stacked up that would take a poorly tied, poorly cast elk hair caddis in that riffle. Problem was - all white fish. Well, I certainly wasn't catching any trout, so I spent he next two hours catching one whitefish after another on dry flies, in the famed Rail Road Ranch. Lots of fun and saved the day from getting skunked.


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