# Boat question



## prumpf (Apr 8, 2016)

Hey all,

Looking at boats just for fun (that’s what I tell the wife). Seriously though, don’t know much about boats but would love to get one for fishing and duck hunting (Fishing would be trolling on lakes etc) 3-4 people. Few questions since it will be my first and have not been on many. 

1. Should I get 2 boats over time to get a fishing setup and a hunting setup or will an Allrounder be good?

2. Based on # 1 what boat/ motor would you recommend? 

3. Would you recommend a old/cheap one and remodel or is it to much of a headache?

Thanks everyone!


----------



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

One works for me. I just swap out the longtail mud motor for the Honda outboard.
Buy as much boat as you want or need.
I don't like project boats, so personally I would get a good used one, or new.


----------



## Ray (May 10, 2018)

How much are you wanting to spend?


----------



## prumpf (Apr 8, 2016)

Thanks Folwmoth, looks like a nice one.

Not sure yet how much, depends on what I need to spent to get something decent without having to repair all the time etc.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Trolling big water or small water?

There is a difference.


----------



## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

I might have a different opinion than others on here. But I would recommend getting two different boats. I really have never been to much on a duck boat. I am not sure how those would take on the bigger waves. We was on the Gorge last week and some of those bigger boats would pass by and we took on a lot of water over the front end of the boat hitting them at a 45 deg angle even. You could get on to KSL and find a great older tri-hull or something for a couple grand. Set that up and use it year round for fishing. Then get you your flat bottom for hunting. But I guess it all depends on where and what you want to fish for and how much you are looking to spend. We was once on Bear Lake and had to rescue 3 guys in a flat bottom. The waves came quick like they do on that lake. they took on way to much water. They flagged us down. They got into our boat. We towed their boat to shore as fast as we dare. one guy jumped out with a long extension rope and pulled it to shore as we rushed to the marina with the others. Crazy experience.


----------



## prumpf (Apr 8, 2016)

Looking at Bear lake sized waters.

@777 that’s exactly why I am asking this question! If I spent my free time fishing I want to have the right equipment and a good experience, not a disaster weekend.


----------



## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

prumpf said:


> Looking at Bear lake sized waters.
> 
> @777 that's exactly why I am asking this question! If I spent my free time fishing I want to have the right equipment and a good experience, not a disaster weekend.


Here's the thing about duck boats - they are an accident waiting to happen on big waters like Bear Lake, The Gorge, Strawberry, Lake Powell, etc. I've had ducks boats of many different shapes and sizes. They are NOT meant to be used on big waters. Period!

The boats that ARE built for big water fishing will NOT be usable in Utah duck marshes. Period!

If you value your life at all, you will want to get 2 boats. My recommendation is to not put your life in danger by foolishly using a duck boat on Utah's big waters I just mentioned plus a couple others. Yes, I've seen them on the Gorge and at Strawberry. And those people doing that are idiots.


----------



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Iv had my 18’ Excel duck boat on Utah lake under conditions where most people would capsize, I never feared for my life but, I went straight to the boat ramp. 

Iv actively trolled for Kokanee on Strawberry on more that one occasion where is was windy enough that most the boats out there were headed back to the ramp, while I finished out my Koke limit. 

I have never feared for my life on big water with my 18’ Excel duck boat. Nor have I ever had any close calls. I know my boat and it’s abilities. It all about knowing your limits.

Now, In those instances I wouldn’t want to be in a rivited jon boat but, my Fully welded 18’ duck boat is just fine running big open water! But, you’ll be in a boat like that for $21k.. better take that up with your wife!


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm with dubob on the two boat thing!! Before selling all my "FUN STUFF" I had a 16' duck boat set up and a 22' Trophy for fishing places like the Gorge, Strawberry. etc. I've seen small boats 16-18' get pounded and almost swamp on Flaming Gorge. 


If your taking family fishing and safety is first - don't buy a boat smaller than a 20' deep V.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

goosefreak said:


> Iv actively trolled for Kokanee on Strawberry on more that one occasion where is was windy enough that most the boats out there were headed back to the ramp, while I finished out my Koke limit.
> 
> I have never feared for my life on big water with my 18' Excel duck boat. Nor have I ever had any close calls. I know my boat and it's abilities. It all about knowing your limits.


I used to feel that way, until one day at strawberry a huge wave broke over the stern of my 17ft ski boat. I would have never thought that would even be possibly at strawberry. We were just trolling around when a fast moving storm blew through.

My wife was hooked up with a MONSTER slot busting cut. We were going with the waves in the trough when I grabbed the net to try and get the fish. Wind or water... something pushed us a bit sideways then BAM, breaker right over the back right over me. ALOT of water in the boat in a flash. It was extremely scary. We were close to shore so not alot of room to maneuver and power out of it.

It happens...

-DallanC


----------



## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

Here are some recreational boating statistics for the USA from 2017 compiled by the US Coast Guard. It shows some interesting data with regard to the likelihood of dying based on boat size.


Less than 16 feet: 269
16 feet to <26 feet: 272
26 feet to <40 feet: 28
40 feet to 65 feet: 9
More than 65 feet: 4

More statistics on deaths from drowning by boat type


Airboat 3
Auxiliary Sailboat 4
Cabin Motorboat 15
Canoe 41
Houseboat 2
Inflatable 17
Kayak 81
Open Motorboat 198
Personal Watercraft 17
Pontoon 28
Rowboat 19
Sailboat (only) 5
Standup paddleboard 10
Total 449

You will notice that Open Motorboats (which includes ducks boats) has almost half of ALL drowning deaths. Couple that with the numbers from the first list above and I think any intelligent person would conclude that a duck boat isn't the best choice for use on any larger body of water. Sorry Goosefreak, but with regard to your advocating the use of a duck boat for trolling for fish on Strawberry (and ONLY in that regard), it is foolish and I still think anybody that does that on a regular basis is an idiot for doing so.


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Stats don't give all the information though. Sure total deaths from types of watercraft, but, -- How many of those drownings came from recreating individuals that were new, or knew nothing about boats and the risks? Experience goes a long way IMO.


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

goosefreak said:


> Iv had my 18' Excel duck boat on Utah lake under conditions where most people would capsize, I never feared for my life but, I went straight to the boat ramp.
> 
> Iv actively trolled for Kokanee on Strawberry on more that one occasion where is was windy enough that most the boats out there were headed back to the ramp, while I finished out my Koke limit.
> 
> ...


goose, large bodies of water under the right conditions will swamp and sink your duck boat so fast your head would be spinning.

Be careful and continue to exercise extreme caution.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you are on Strawberry a strong fart from the boat across the bay from you could cause huge waves. 

The last time that I was on a boat on Strawberry was clear back in the 70's and if it even looked like there was going to be a wind you quickly headed back to shore no matter what kind or length of boat you were in...


----------



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Iv been on Utah lake with waves as tall as you can get, I didn’t stay out there, I went back to the ramp but, when I’m caught in those situations, I know how to navigate smart and effectively. Never said my boat isn’t prone to being swamped but, I would never consider one man’s misfortune another man’s fate.

My dad pulls the four wheeler trailer up and down the canyon roads twice as fast that I feel comfortable doing. What’s dangerous for me may not be dangerous for him, he’s the one in control not me.

I’m just simply saying to make a claim suggesting that duck boats are not for big water is not true, maybe they’re not ideal but, a boat like mine is no different than a bass boat, my brothers nitro bass boat doesn’t sit much further into the water than mine.
Now if I was doing a lot more fishing than duckhunting then I would get a specified fishing boat, but if I’m gonna do more duckhunting with some fishing during the off-season then I wouldn’t have any problem running a duck boat on big water, especially a big heavy boat like mine


----------



## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

goosefreak said:


> I know how to navigate smart and effectively.





taxidermist said:


> Stats don't give all the information though. Sure total deaths from types of watercraft, but, -- How many of those drownings came from recreating individuals that were new, or knew nothing about boats and the risks? Experience goes a long way IMO.


I'm sure that 63 year old Ernest Michael McSorley, (the last captain of the ill-fated Laker-type freighter SS Edmund Fitzgerald), and 48 year old Lance Heninger (from Angler's Den) thought exactly the same thing. Both of them were seasoned boat operators. Look what it got them. Unacceptable weather conditions caught both of them off guard and they both paid the ultimate price.

That's all I'm going to say about this and for prumpf, I hope you are paying close attention since your plan is to use a boat on "Bear lake sized waters." Tight lines to all y'all and stay safe. :O--O:


----------



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Yup, accidents do happen..

I’m still going to go catch my Kokes!!


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

A great song was written from the Edmund Fitzgerald incident. The one noted mistake from that wreck was greed. Loaded the ship with more iron ore than the vessel could handle. Of course the rough weather and seas just magnified the poor decision of loading a heavy ship to make a few thousand more $$


Only if we all hand hind site, or could look into the future.


----------



## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

My wife gave me a T-shirt years ago. On the front it read "a boat is a hole in the water in which you pour your money".

She was right. Enjoy!


----------



## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

taxidermist said:


> A great song was written from the Edmund Fitzgerald incident. The one noted mistake from that wreck was greed. Loaded the ship with more iron ore than the vessel could handle. Of course the rough weather and seas just magnified the poor decision of loading a heavy ship to make a few thousand more $$


That has never been proved or officially sanctioned by the either the US Coast Guard or the NTSB. There were 6 official hypothesis on possible causes and none of them suggested that it was, in fact, overloaded. there was a minor suggestion that it MAY have been overloaded, but never substantiated. To this day, the real cause has never been determined for sure. Hurricane winds, 35 foot seas, and damaged or unfastened hatch clamps in combination seem most likely. And none of this has anything to do with prumpf questions about boat choice for "Bear lake size waters." :thumb:


----------



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

DallanC said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Iv actively trolled for Kokanee on Strawberry on more that one occasion where is was windy enough that most the boats out there were headed back to the ramp, while I finished out my Koke limit.
> ...


Yup, it does happen. I was on Strawberry last year when a micro burst came through. It went from glass to 4' swells almost instantly (like Utah Lake) I headed back to the ramp, took on a little water but my Bilge pump blows out water faster then it comes in, and it was all from spray. I was actually grateful for a moment like that, it gave me an opportunity to see the handling abilities of my boat under worst case scenarios.

Iv been on 2 lakes on 4 occasions where it went from glass to 4'+ swells, I never had waves break over into my boat. It took a while to get back to the ramp because with a boat like mine, even the TANK that it is, you got to navigate very delicately.

I'm not suggesting continue fishing in those conditions but, I know my rig will get me back to land safe. Those 4 crazy experiences were excellent education opportunities. A lot of slow going and a lot of turning into big breaks to keep from flipping or turning over. It absolutely can be done but it requires a lot of paying attention and looking ahead of time. Never was I scared.

But it's like anything, you drive down the freeway too fast and eventually you're going to get a speeding ticket , or crash.

And I'm not saying that my boat won't ever capsize or take on water, I'm just giving my experience which has been on Strawberry and Utah Lake under some of the worst conditions they have to offer and I made it back to shore just fine.

I test all my gear before I go duck hunting or fishing so that I know I'm leaving my house with gear in operating order. And when I'm engaged in an activity of any kind I always have an emergency exit plan for those worst case scenarios.

And I'm so D A M N stubborn, it's going to take a lot more than capsized boat to kill me !!


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

middlefork said:


> My wife gave me a T-shirt years ago. On the front it read "a boat is a hole in the water in which you pour your money".
> 
> She was right. Enjoy!


So very true!!! It's one thing after another with them.


----------



## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

And none of this has anything to do with prumpf questions about boat choice for "Bear lake size waters." :thumb:

Well, lets load up the swamp can and get after it then. :mrgreen:


----------



## prumpf (Apr 8, 2016)

Thanks for all the great input! I decided on 2 boats, now the issue I am having is that my fishing boat isn’t the right family boat. I don’t want to end up with 3 boats lol.... baby steps I guess not sure if I should start with a waterfowl or fishing boat. Family boat will come when the kids are old enough


----------



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

prumpf said:


> Thanks for all the great input! I decided on 2 boats, now the issue I am having is that my fishing boat isn't the right family boat. I don't want to end up with 3 boats lol.... baby steps I guess not sure if I should start with a waterfowl or fishing boat. Family boat will come when the kids are old enough


 That depends what you see yourself doing more of


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

prumpf said:


> Thanks for all the great input! I decided on 2 boats, now the issue I am having is that my fishing boat isn't the right family boat. I don't want to end up with 3 boats lol.... baby steps I guess not sure if I should start with a waterfowl or fishing boat. Family boat will come when the kids are old enough


The family and fish boat is tough, PBH can tell you that the Ranger Reata is about the best you can get with both or similar. I am in this same boat, no pun intended, probably have to get about a 17' lund or G3 that is much more on the fish side and with the right harness and ball it can still tow a tube or wakeboard ok.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> So very true!!! It's one thing after another with them.


My boat: 1987 SeaRay Seville, has been one of the cheapest vehicles I've ever owned. I replaced the shift cables shortly after we got it (it was used), and a fuel filter... but beyond that, it only costs me gas and a battery every 6 or so years. Have had that boat 20+ years now.

-DallanC


----------



## RoseRampling (Aug 20, 2020)

In my opinion, it is much easier to buy an old boat and just fix it. Although there are old boats that are quite difficult to repair. It all depends on your budget and your capabilities. Personally, I managed to find a very nice old boat in which all that needed to be replaced was a couple of parts in the engine itself. Perhaps you can find such an old boat. In my opinion, new boats are too expensive. Although it is probably much more enjoyable to use a completely new boat than to ride an already used, old boat. By the way, I recently found a very good service https://www.bestoffishing.co.uk/ through which you can find a lot of reviews on various fishing rods and baits. In my opinion, a very useful service that will be useful to any fisherman.​


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Duck boat, no. Fishing boat, yes. Family boat, sorta - only if fishing is the activity.

Big water capable, absolutely. Handles 3-4' easy at 45 mph.

Hull design and buoyancy is key. This one is double hull filled with marine flotation foam. Just some things to consider when family boat shopping one day.


----------



## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

High Desert Elk said:


> Duck boat, no. Fishing boat, yes. Family boat, sorta - only if fishing is the activity.
> 
> Big water capable, absolutely. Handles 3-4' easy at 45 mph.
> 
> Hull design and buoyancy is key. This one is double hull filled with marine flotation foam. Just some things to consider when family boat shopping one day.


Nice boat. Little rich for me but nice. I'm wanting a center console boat like the excels but those are overpriced for what they are. Where is the used boat marketplace around here lol.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Brettski7 said:


> Nice boat. Little rich for me but nice. I'm wanting a center console boat like the excels but those are overpriced for what they are. Where is the used boat marketplace around here lol.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like most things, I keep it for awhile. Have had this since 2009 and really only use in late April through mid June. Has barely over 200 hours on the engine.

I believe if the time is ever right, I would just buy a new engine for it rather than go through the trouble of buying another one.

Half the cost of any boat is usually the engine...


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> I believe if the time is ever right, I would just buy a new engine for it rather than go through the trouble of buying another one.
> 
> Half the cost of any boat is usually the engine...


Yep. 98% of my boats use is at idle trolling... overall I'm underpowered. I did a compression test once and #4 seemed low... but I wasnt sure if I got a good seal on the tester due to the manifold. I need to redo that test. I like rebuilding engines, and mine I could rebuilt for a a few hundred $$$. But... it always fires right up, year after year, and so what if it takes me another 10 seconds to get up on a plane... from the boat dock we run maybe 5 minutes to the start of our tolling loop.

Marine carburators and ignition components are usually alot more $$$ than a set of pistons and rings.

-DallanC


----------



## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

DallanC said:


> Marine carburators and ignition components are usually alot more $$$ than a set of pistons and rings.
> 
> -DallanC


You're dead on with that one. I was at a boat shop here in Northern Utah. The owner was cussing at my for saying that I was going to put a car carb. on my boat vs a marine one. So I ended up rebuilding the one I have. I asked him how much a refurbished carb. cost and he told me 500$. I didn't dare ask how much for a brand new one. Hence the 60$ carb kit got put on instead.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Yea we bought a salvage title swamped boat that I rebuilt the engine on one year. I used a few automotive parts here and there where it didnt matter (example: there is NO difference in an automotive coil and a marine one... other than 10x the cost lol). 

Most of the higher cost marine parts are just nickel or chrome coated to not rust up in high moisture air. We really don't run into that problem unless you are using a boat daily on the water and it never gets a chance to dry out.

-DallanC


----------



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> Yep. 98% of my boats use is at idle trolling... overall I'm underpowered. I did a compression test once and #4 seemed low... but I wasnt sure if I got a good seal on the tester due to the manifold. I need to redo that test. I like rebuilding engines, and mine I could rebuilt for a a few hundred $$$. But... it always fires right up, year after year, and so what if it takes me another 10 seconds to get up on a plane... from the boat dock we run maybe 5 minutes to the start of our tolling loop.
> 
> Marine carburators and ignition components are usually alot more $$$ than a set of pistons and rings.
> 
> -DallanC


Mercury had a bad batch of ignition coils for outboards like mine that would fail. $135 each and there are 6 cylinders. Eventually replaced all after losing 2 of them. 
When that happens, you cannot get on plane. When 15 miles from the marina, it is a 2/1-2 hour trolling expedition.

Boat runs better now with all new spec coils. Still can't break 63 mph though, dang elevation...


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

https://www.amazon.com/Nitrous-82357-Safe-Shot-System/dp/B004LEXIKK

? :mrgreen:

-DallanC


----------



## cdbright (Aug 24, 2016)

i used to own a dealership .................RENT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Boat rental is what, $200 / day? If I figure conservatively we've used our boat 10 times a year, for 20 years that we've had it. 200x10x20 = $40,000. I paid $6500 for it just about 20 years ago. So I'm money ahead.

Rental is fine for the occasional boater, but I think alot of people dont go out fishing and make memories if they have to rent. 

I think of toys in this fashion... if I buy something I estimate how many times a year I'd have to use it vs renting, and how long i figure I'll have it. If you use things a reasonable amount, take care of them and keep them along time, its way cheaper in the long run.

I figure with our toyhauler, if I use it 6 days a year (they rent in the $450 range), thats equal to $2700 in rent fees. That far outpaces depreciation.

-DallanC


----------

