# Info about a couple Antelope units



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

well guess i was just reading up on the a couple unites for antelope and I was reading my old area and it sound like thing has changed on that one and most of it went to Private land. So instead of trying to get on the land. Im going try a couple other areas closer to home.So can any one give me info on these unites.west desert rush valley,snake valley. any info would be great. thanks guys. you can pm me the info if you would like. If you have hunted it what kind of unite is this? we are not looking for P&Y bucks. Just want to have a good time chasing them with bows and giving my wife,father in law and my buddy a good time antelope hunting and getting them there first goat.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

These units you listed have some pretty nice bucks. I have seen several bucks in the 14-15 inch range. I have also seen some pretty funky looking horned bucks on these units also.


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## crimson obsession (Sep 7, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> I have also seen some pretty funky looking horned bucks on these units also.


Any coincidence these areas are located around the deseret chemical depot and the dugway proving grounds(aka the new area 51).


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Guys keep them coming.please


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Dustin,

Have you considered Cache North Rich?? (entire North Rich County) A lot of people overlook this unit for antelope. While a lot of the unit is Private, I would be willing to bet over 85% of land owners would allow antelope hunters on their property, (most hate antelope) not to mention there is plenty of School Trust Land, Walk in Access area's and BLM and even some goats on Forest. There are plenty of quality goats, P&Y would be very do-able IMO. Shoot me a PM if you would like more info on locations etc. etc.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> Dustin,
> 
> Have you considered Cache North Rich?? (entire North Rich County) A lot of people overlook this unit for antelope. While a lot of the unit is Private, I would be willing to bet over 85% of land owners would allow antelope hunters on their property, (most hate antelope) not to mention there is plenty of School Trust Land, Walk in Access area's and BLM and even some goats on Forest. There are plenty of quality goats, P&Y would be very do-able IMO. Shoot me a PM if you would like more info on locations etc. etc.


pm sent


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## grimreaper (Jul 29, 2009)

I archery hunted west desert in 2004. It was a good unit with many goats.we were able to locate many respectable animals. One buck that was around 82" and another around 79". the 82 was our main buck, but we could never locate his water source. I blew a couple of stalks on him and never made it happen. I missed the 79" buck @ 50 yrds out of the blind and he never came back to that hole. I ended up killing a 76" p&y buck. The bucks out there don't have great prongs on average but there is always an exception. They seemed to have good length and mass though and the mass is more important anyway.Over all for utah I think it is a good unit and very representitive of the state. As for weird horns there is a fair amount of that too!!!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

The hunts you listed are some of the most coveted pronghorn tags in the state, so ya'd better have a pocket full of points or leprechauns. I guess a gene lamp would work too, but I'm pretty sure they are just a myth.

How many points do you have D? Archery or rifle? What kind of goat are you looking for? This kind of stuff really matters with LE hunts. If you're happy with a 75"er and have a handful of points, no sense in waiting another 7-10 years to draw on of the more sought after units.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> The hunts you listed are some of the most coveted pronghorn tags in the state, so ya'd better have a pocket full of points or leprechauns. I guess a gene lamp would work too, but I'm pretty sure they are just a myth.
> 
> How many points do you have D? Archery or rifle? What kind of goat are you looking for? This kind of stuff really matters with LE hunts. If you're happy with a 75"er and have a handful of points, no sense in waiting another 7-10 years to draw on of the more sought after units.


there will be four of us going in the draw together. with the four if us we got 16 points going in to the draw.We are not looking for anything monster but don't get me wrong we wont pass them up.I will be out there scouting for a good buck.It my wife first,buddy and father in law first antelope hunt. My buddy and I will be trying with are bows in tell the last day after noon.My wife will be shooting a rifle and my father in law will be trying with a pistol.So it pretty much a meat hunt but also a fun hunt and time spent with good people. If that all make sent.We would like to get some nice goats but if we ended up with 14inchers we will be happy with them.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok, Don't put in for those hunts!

You have good odds or are pretty much guaranteed on the following:

-Kaiparowitz

-Plateau early, There's tons of guys on here that know and/or have drawn this unit.

-Pine Valley

-Panguitch

-Beaver

-Cisco, It's a drive, but I saw a few really good goats on this unit last year.

-Dutton (A little bit of a long shot)

If size isn't a factor, get a tag and go hunt.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Ok, Don't put in for those hunts!
> 
> You have good odds or are pretty much guaranteed on the following:
> 
> ...


I don't know where any of these unites are beside this one -Plateau early. I got some does tags down there i think in 2004 and seen plenty of them. But Im not sure if I can find my way around there. I had a friend taking me around.I will look in to those ares now. thanks for the help guys.


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## vaporpestcontrol (Nov 6, 2009)

Dont even waste time on this unit Kaiparowitz
This is one of thoese tags they just have to take your money. You could waste 100s on gas and not see a speed goat. We hunted the plat. and the riverbed this year. Some great heavy horned goats on this unit like earlier said. But you wont draw with 4 points you need 8-9 points or luck. The plat. is pushed hard. You will see them but they will run if they see you 2000 yards away. Archery would be the best bet. You would draw this unit for rifle but it would be hard to drop 4 goats in this unit with out making sure you take the entire hunt off.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Maybe you should also try Wyoming?


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Maybe you should also try Wyoming?


I cant afford that for me and my wife. I have looked in to that already.my cuz live there and he want me to come over there and hunt with him.


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## big bull donw (Apr 21, 2009)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Ok, Don't put in for those hunts!
> 
> You have good odds or are pretty much guaranteed on the following:
> 
> ...


Plateau early is a great hunt, lots of antalope 
see alot of game, fun fun hunt 
some p and y goats. but great hunt for family two go out and have fun.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

If you want a great unit with tons of public land, the west daggett-3 corners is tough to beat. I drew a archery tag on this unit last year and it was happy hunting. Killed my goat 3 hours into the first day after blowing 3 spot/stalks on nice bucks. Setting up on watering holes was unnecessary as there is sufficient cover for spot-stalk. Plus, you are right on the green and flaming gorge for some great fishing once you fill your tag.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> > The hunts you listed are some of the most coveted pronghorn tags in the state, so ya'd better have a pocket full of points or leprechauns. I guess a gene lamp would work too, but I'm pretty sure they are just a myth.
> ...


I think you are incorrect with your points. when you put in as a group you average out your points and round down if it comes out in half points like 4+4+4+4=16/4= means you have 4 points
4+3+4+4=15/4=3.75 means you have 3 points

the other thing you have to look at when applying as a group. is if there is only 3 bonus point tags available you will never draw that unit. if there is 5 bonus point tags available you had better be the one that draws the first tag cause if you are the one that draws the second tag you will never draw the tag. Group applications can in some cases screw you. It would be better if you all put in separate unless you do indeed have 16 antelope points which I believe is unheard of in Utah!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

just looking at one of the units you wanted to draw and putting in as a group of four you will never draw any of the west desert archery tags!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> > Treehugnhuntr said:
> ...


I got 6 points wife got 7 points my buddy got 2 and father in law got one. that what we are heading in to the draw with so the a total of 16 points and it come out to being four a peace right ?yea I now it can mess us up and it messing me and my wife up.but we want to hunt with the other two people.That why we are doing it the way we are.we want the any weapon hunts. My wife is not shooting a bow there only me and my buddy shooting bows at them.I'm still trying to figger out the odds stuff. what I come up with on are odds was this tell em if im wrong.

Cache,north rich we got 8.6% still up in the air 
south slope Bonanza 5.6% I got this tag back in 1997 with two points. 2nd choice 
west desert river bed 4.1% this is are first choice 
west desert rush valley 4.8% still up in the air 
west desert snake valley 6.4 % still up in the air 

So if we wanted to we can fill out all five choice with these unites and see if we can get lucky.Thanks for the help guys.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

i concure with the statement on the west desert herds if you archery putting in a group application there is no way to hunt just not enough permits the wise way would be to put in seperatly and than help out the folks who do get a tag ya get to hunt it alot more than just one year that way there are some pretty substantial bucks to be had thats for sure.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

If we don't draw this year I might think about doing that next year for my wife a least. putting her in by her self.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

dkhntrdstn said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > dkhntrdstn said:
> ...


you have almost got it figured out. except you are looking at the wrong year. go to this web page. http://monstermuleys.hunterstrailhead.c ... .php?ST=UT

put in 4 points in the 2009 points catagorie. dont select a weapon or a unit. this is the best part of this program. then look at the column that is blue because this is really where you are at it will tell you where everyone that had the same points you had put in for 2009. It cannot predict the future because there are so many point jumpers.

the one thing that I am confused is I have heard that the state will give each one of you guys a number for each applicant you are going in with. If one of the guys you are hunting with draws a low number you all will be hunting. this is how I understand it but I could be wrong. but your odds say you are %6.6 chance on the cash unit. it might be higher if you do in fact get a chance at the drawing with all your applicants. 
so on


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

> the one thing that I am confused is I have heard that the state will give each one of you guys a number for each applicant you are going in with. If one of the guys you are hunting with draws a low number you all will be hunting. this is how I understand it but I could be wrong. but your odds say you are %6.6 chance on the cash unit. it might be higher if you do in fact get a chance at the drawing with all your applicants.
> so on


That the way I understand it to. that why we are putting in as a group.Thanks for the web site I will check it out.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I checked out that web site. but I got a question. when you put in four points why does it high light 3 points in blue?in stead of four? See that where I'm getting lost with this stuff.So to that web site are chance went down.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

the reason is and it is hard for me to explain. other than saying that is just how it is lol.

the odds are created with last years applications. it tells you where everyone put in for last year. 

you dont get your point untill after the hunt is over so if you use how many points you have now it wont work with how many points you had in 2008. hope that makes sense to you cause it dosent to me. lol

its worse for me I am applying for archery Henry deer. i have 9 points. three years ago I was guaranteed a tag in three years. now three years later i am guaranteed a tag in 18 years if I am the last one in the pool to draw! I hate people that jump ship and move all around.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> the reason is and it is hard for me to explain. other than saying that is just how it is lol.
> 
> the odds are created with last years applications. it tells you where everyone put in for last year.
> 
> ...


yea that does not make sent to me at all. good luck on your draw this year. hope you draw and bag a big one.


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## 400BULL (Nov 16, 2007)

I've never put in as a group so I don't know first hand how things work. Acouple things that you may want to look into prior to applying as a group. In your case you have 7 points, your wife has 6 points, and other two have a couple points combined all together for a total of 16 points. When applying as a group you will all be entered in the drawing with 4 points this year. What happens to your points for next year? Will all your points be devided out evenaly for next year so that everyone will have 5 points, meaning you will have 5 points, your wife will have 5 pints, ect........ or will you then have 8 points, your wife have 7 points, ect......? I think that when my dad a brother applied as a group one year that my brother lost a couple points while my dad gained a couple the next year. Does any one know how that works? 

With the number of points that you and your wife have you many want to look at applying idavidualy. By applying indavidualy you may have a better chance at drawing a tag and everyone can join in on the fun for a couple years in a row instead of doing it all at once? 

Good luck on what ever you decide to do.

400bull


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

400BULL said:


> I've never put in as a group so I don't know first hand how things work. Acouple things that you may want to look into prior to applying as a group. In your case you have 7 points, your wife has 6 points, and other two have a couple points combined all together for a total of 16 points. When applying as a group you will all be entered in the drawing with 4 points this year. What happens to your points for next year? Will all your points be devided out evenaly for next year so that everyone will have 5 points, meaning you will have 5 points, your wife will have 5 pints, ect........ or will you then have 8 points, your wife have 7 points, ect......? I think that when my dad a brother applied as a group one year that my brother lost a couple points while my dad gained a couple the next year. Does any one know how that works?
> 
> With the number of points that you and your wife have you many want to look at applying idavidualy. By applying indavidualy you may have a better chance at drawing a tag and everyone can join in on the fun for a couple years in a row instead of doing it all at once?
> 
> ...


No next year i will have 7 my wife will have 8 and the other two will have 3 and 2. to the web site that on here it say we go in to the draw with 3 points each and I don't understand why we lose a point going in.If we don't draw this year next year I will put in for a archery and my wife in as any weapon hunt. So I guess we are going to take are chance this year. Thanks guys.But if any body can tell my why we lose point going in to the draw please do I don't understand that. 
that to this web site
http://monstermuleys.hunterstrailhead.c ... .php?ST=UT

and I also looked at this web site.
http://www.hunterstrailhead.com/huntsearch.php?ST=UT


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It looks like they updated the site to reflect this years points.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... 15264.html

I don't think you give up a point. it was just to show you the correct odds.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

middlefork said:


> I don't think you give up a point. it was just to show you the correct odds.


sorry but I don't get it still. I guess I'm a dum ass on this kind of stuff.I guess I need to sit down with somebody and learn this thing out. I just don't see why it drop it to three points.instead of keeping it at four points.Sorry guys.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

so do you have a 7 points now or are you thinking you will have 7 points after the draw next year? that will make a huge deal!

right now the division's page says I have 9 points. so on the mm web page I posted I apply how many points I have in 2009. The program says O you had 8 points going into 2009 this is where you would have been with everyone else in the draw. So you look at where you would have been in the draw when it happened. I did not draw so I got my 9th point! 

you never lost a point, but everyone in the eight point group with me that didn't draw all have 9 points now! the computer nor anyone else knows where those guys will apply for this year.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I dug up a bit of info from a guy "chris" that had the same question as you do. he is talking to the guy "jon" that created the program.

Jon,
The Fish and Game website shows I have 14 points for Desert Sheep as of 2009. When looking at your website, it is highlighting the 13 point column and not the 14 point column. Which column should I be looking at? Also, do you know how many permits are going to be given on the Zion unit? 
Thanks,
Chris

Chris,
You need to be looking at the 13 point column. What you are seeing is the odds for last year when you had 13 points. You have not applied with 14 points yet so we won't know what those odds will be until after the drawing in April.
As for the number of tags on the Zion, that number will not be set until sometime in March. However, I have heard that there may be as many as 4 or 5. The Zion unit will be an awesome tag to have its first year. I would think that there will be a couple giant rams come out of there this fall.
Good luck,
Jon


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> so do you have a 7 points now or are you thinking you will have 7 points after the draw next year? that will make a huge deal!
> 
> right now the division's page says I have 9 points. so on the mm web page I posted I apply how many points I have in 2009. The program says O you had 8 points going into 2009 this is where you would have been with everyone else in the draw. So you look at where you would have been in the draw when it happened. I did not draw so I got my 9th point!
> 
> you never lost a point, but everyone in the eight point group with me that didn't draw all have 9 points now! the computer nor anyone else knows where those guys will apply for this year.


Right now before this draw. I have 6 and my wife has 7 and my buddy got 2 and father in law has one.so I'm not counting the point for this year after the draw.OK so it putting us in with the people last year with the same number of points.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

it keeps getting worse! I just looked at a 2007 draw odds book, It says under the category of group apps something like this. 

There are a lot of people that think when they apply as a group each person will get a shot in the drawing and if one guy draws they all draw bringing up their chances at drawing the tag. This is in fact false! "this is how I thought it worked"

when you all apply as a group you average your points and round down. and your group application only accounts for the average of your points. So in your case you added up every one you had 16 points I thought you all had 16 chances at the draw well you only get 4 chances. They average your points and treat you as a single applicants. 

Until I draw a tag without taking it to the max I will continue to hate Utahs drawing system. It took me 6 years to draw the turkey tag, max on the cougar tag, and haven't drawn anything else. I actually think it would take me less time to draw a tag if they gave all the tags to the highest point holders.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's the exact wording on group limited entry app's......from the Big game guide book.


Applying as a group.
When two or more hunters apply as a
group, their bonus points are averaged and rounded down.
For example, if hunter A has seven bonus points, and hunter B has zero bonus points—and they apply together as a group—their bonus points are averaged (3.5) and rounded down to three. The computer then assigns the group three random drawing numbers for their three bonus points, plus one random drawing number (instead of two drawing numbers) because the two hunters are applying together as a group. That leaves the group of two hunters with a total of four drawing numbers. The computer then takes thelowest number the group received, and that’s the number the group will use in the drawing.


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