# Utah to Pac 12 for sure?



## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Heard from two buddies who are die hard Ute fans that its a done deal and has been confirmed for a couple months now. First I'd heard of it was last night, just bs'in after a game... the Utes are going to the new Pac 12 along with most likely Colorado. Good call for Utah and if its the real deal, I'll for sure be getting season tickets so I can catch a Washington game at least once a year.  Anyone else heard about them splitting for a bigger conference?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Much as I hate the BCS system, and Hate the utahutes, I still respect and applaud them for their successes in making and winning BCS bowl games. Now that said, if they jump to the Pac 10, they've seen their last BCS appearance. I would suggest, though it may not be popular to say so, that it is now easier to make it to a BCS bowl game from the MWC and WAC, than it is from the Pac-10, Big 12, SEC, and Big 10. The '04 utahutes would not have beaten the Matt Leinart/Reggie Bush USC team and the '08 utahutes needed a prayer of a field goal to get past Oregon State - the 3rd place team in Pac10 that year. While jumping to the big and shiney Pac 10 will be great and all - the utes will never sniff another BCS bowl of they do. But hey - my Cougar's haven't sniffed a BCS game at all, so who am I to criticize! But still - My Cougars have a better chance at a BCS game from the MWC than they would in any other conference except maybe the Big East or WAC.


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## mjschijf (Oct 1, 2007)

What!? I haven't heard anything about this! Any details about when this would happen? Links?


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree with Garyfish. Utah would only have a shot on one of those once in a generation years when all the stars aligned. Utah leaving would make more room for BYU and TCU to fight it out for a BCS game but I think it will be a while before BYU is a serious contender. What would this mean for the BYU/Utah rivalry? On the bright side Utah could become one of those schools splitting BCS money while riding on the coat tails of the likes of USC.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

yup...that's the word on the street...2011 Utah PAC-12...


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I have heard this too, but a lot does depend on what happens in other conferences first and the dominoes still may fall differently than way the guys saying "sure thing" are saying. 

Watch to see if the Big-10 takes either Notre Dame and 1-3 Big East schools vs trying to get Missouri or maybe Nebraska along with 1-2 eastern schools. If Mizzou and Nebraska bolt the Big 12, then CU will lose some of their historic rivalries and would likely jump to the PAC-10. Utah would be a sensible throw-in to get to 12. I have also heard that the PAC-10 will be looking for better TV markets, and while Denver is decent, Salt Lake is mediocre in that respect and may be edged out by other markets.

As a Ute fan, I would like this in general, but it would be sad not to be in the same conference as the detested "team from down South". :wink:


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## GRIFF (Sep 22, 2007)

Gary,
You maybe be right, it is possible Utah will never go to another BCS bowl again. However, the thing that you are overlooking is that if Utah joins the Pac-10 they will have a legitimate chance (very small I know) every year at a national championship. Something the Mountain West can never offer any of it's schools.
I also don't think that Pac-10 is what it was 5 years ago. With Pete Carroll gone and Lane Kiffin running USC there is no clear front runner anymore. Now is a great time for Utah to join the Pac-10.

Later,
Griff


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Catherder said:


> As a Ute fan, I would like this in general, but it would be sad not to be in the same conference as the detested "team from down South". :wink:


I think we can rest assured that they would play every year anyway.

I see Utah joining the Pac-10 as a great thing for them. I think recruiting would only get stronger, as the U would then be considered by recruits as a team that has a possibility of playing for National Championships, something that just isn't possible for teams in the Mtn West.

No doubt there would be a tougher schedule, but the U would get a chance to show all the naysayers that they can hang with the big dogs...a THIRD time. :wink:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'd be stoked for away games, thats for sure.  Oregon was pretty badass when i went there, I can only imagine how it would be to go catch a season game in the Rose Bowl.


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## Comrade Duck (Oct 24, 2007)

It would be a huge benefit for the U to be a part of the PAC 10. I would think the odds of them playing in another BCS bowl game would actually be pretty good. They don't have to necessarily run the table, they just have to be good in conference. In many cases, 2nd best in conference is good enough if the champion is playing in the NC game. (which by the way would be another benefit, they would actually be considered for a title game during a special year) OSU was one win away from playing in the Rose Bowl, instead they ended up getting spanked by BYU in the very next game. The PAC isn't what it use to be. The Utes would be competitive.

Another thing to consider, the bowl pay-out for a non AQ team is nearly half of what it is for a BCS conference team, plus that money isn't guaranteed. (MWC has had only 3 BCS bowls in the last 5 seasons where as the PAC Ten has had 5 at a higher earning) The money is always coming in. More money will certainly help. 

I don't like the Utes, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be jealous if they went. The only thing I would hope for is if the PAC Ten did take Colorado is that the Big 12 would fill the void with the Cougs. They wanted them back in the 90's, maybe they would still.

Shane


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## hyperduc (Sep 18, 2009)

How wouldn't this make sense for the U?

they already recruit heavily from pac 10 locations, they have been very successful against pac 10 opponents, USC's dominance has all but disappeared in the last few years and now that carol is gone the top spot will be up for grabs. 

Getting into a bcs game no longer requires a perfect season, and the possibility of a national championship is now a realistic goal. 

As for BYU to the big 12...that's just funny.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

TCU will go to the Big12 before any other school...


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

stablebuck said:


> TCU will go to the Big12 before any other school...


Looking around on the internet for verification of all this, it seems you would be correct or at least in the majority with regard to what folks expect to happen. there are a lot of folks that think that TCU will fill Colorado's void in the Big 12 should they jump ship to the Pac 12.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Here is some more opinion on PAC -10 expansion. I tend to agree with the authors reasoning, although if the Big-10 were able to nab BOTH Missouri and Nebraska (esp Nebraska) I think CU would indeed go to the Pac-10.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sp ... _happening


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## The Janitor (Jan 23, 2009)

Bump...

Funny how things are starting to pan out in regards to conference expansion. Anyone else paying attention?

Unbelievable. The Pac-10 may is very likely to become the Pac-16 by 2012 with the additions of Texas, Texas aTm, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado, and yet not a single word from Riverrat. :O•-:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

It will be a historical summer for sure.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So with the Big 10 falling apart, does this mean the MTN West will get an automatic BCS bid? (I say that will utmost skepticism)


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Here is my prediction. When the dust settles, there will be four, 16-team super conferences. BYU, Utah and BSU will not be part of any of them. 

Each of those Big 4 will have a conference championship game. And then those 4 will arrange a next higher tier to the BCS bowls - a play-off of the four champions, making the standard BCS games less relevent. 

So in essence, there will be an 8 team play-off for the championship. That is the upside and great for the 64 teams that are in the Big 4. But for the other 60+ teams, they will have no access. All the teams in the MWC, WAC, Sun Belt, MAC, Conf. USA will be left in essentially a new football subdivision to fend for them selves. When its all said and done, the divide will be bigger.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Colorado is officially part of the PAC 10.

http://www.pac-10.org/genrel/061010aaa.html


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

And the dominos begin to fall.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

This is like watching a feeding frenzy of sharks on the Discovery Channel... fascinating and disgusting at the same time. All of this is being fueled by greed. No consideration is being given to what is in the best interests of collegiate sports and student-athletes. 

The most fascinating aspect to all of this is that Notre Dame, the icon of college football, despite their recent fall from glory, is in a position now to save it. After decades of courtship by the Big Ten they could short-circuit the domino chain of conference realignment by consenting to join it on the condition that it stop at 12 schools, leaving Nebraska at the altar, and the Big 12 intact (sans Colorado). Of course this means Utah would get the invitation to join the Pac-10 instead of Texas and its litter, and perhaps BYU would go to the Big 12 to replace Colorado, but the college football landscape would remain otherwise intact. It may be time for Notre Dame to end its decades-long independence, for its own benefit as well as for college football's. Their position would be just as uncertain if this conference land grab continues and results in 16 team elite conferences that form their own playoff and championship.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Here is how I see the 4 - Supers shaking down:

Pac-10 - NewWashington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Cal
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Arizona
ASU
Adding from Big 12:
Texas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Colorado

Big 10- ExpandedMichigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Indiana
Purdue
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Iowa
Illinois
Penn State
Adding from Big 12-
Nebraska 
Missouri
From Big East-
Pitt
Rutgers
and last spot will be Notre Dame, or Iowa State from Big 12

SEC - ExpandedAlabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
LSU
Mississippi
Miss. State
S. Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Adding from ACC:
Florida State
Miami
Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech

Big East/ACC - Super Hoops ConferenceACC teams: 
Boston College
Clemson
Duke
Maryland
N. Carolina
N. Carolina State
Virginia
Wake Forest
From Big East:
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
And from Big 12 -
Kansas
Kansas State

The real wild card pick will be if the new Big 10 will take Notre Dame. If they do, then Iowa State is the only current BCS school left out. If Notre Dame is too much of a pain to the Big 10, then Iowa State goes to the Big 10 - keeping an in-state rival with Iowa.

ALL non-BCS schools are completely left out of the re-shuffle.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

Found this article that confirms what I stated in my previous post - that Notre Dame is in a position to save the college football landscape, and they know it, and that in spite of the brave and indifferent public face they are showing, they do feel threatened by all the potential changes, and may feel like the time has come to end their independence and join the Big 10. What I find fascinating is that the fate of Utah now rests squarely with Notre Dame.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/s ... id=5267138


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Another domino drops. Nebraska heading to Big 10 (now 12 teams).
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5276551

What's the next domino to fall? Any predictions?


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## The Janitor (Jan 23, 2009)

It's official: Nebraska to the Big 10

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5276551

Hope to see more pillaging of the Big 12 coming up, and maybe the MWC can pick up some of its remnants.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

With the Big 10 now at 12 teams, what does that mean for Notre Dame?


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

GaryFish said:


> Another domino drops. Nebraska heading to Big 10 (now 12 teams).
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5276551
> 
> What's the next domino to fall? Any predictions?


I can see two plausible scenarios depending on what Texas does:

If Texas decides to stay put and salvage the Big 12 then look for Utah to head for the Pac-10/12. You might see the Big 12 then invite BYU and TCU to join them so they can keep their conference championship game (need 12 teams per NCAA). Or you might see TCU and AFA, or BYU and AFA. The Oklahoma AD was quoted in an interview with a Tulsa newspaper that BYU and AFA are being considered to help salvage the Big 12 if Texas decides to stay put. Air Force might be a more attractive option for the Big 12 then TCU because they bring a larger fan base than TCU and the Big 12 already owns the Texas TV market.

If Texas decides to call it quits and join the Pac-16 "super-conference" then the feeding frenzy begins. Perhaps this is why the MWC just added Boise State to make themselves more attractive to the Big 12 leftovers. Kansas and Missouri will probably find homes in either the Big East or Big Ten, but K-State, Iowa State and Baylor may find themselves in a position where they have no where else to go and the MWC could be their best option. The MWC might pick up the two best to make 12 teams, then lobby like hell for inclusion in the BCS.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

GaryFish said:


> With the Big 10 now at 12 teams, what does that mean for Notre Dame?


It means they missed their opportunity to keep college football from descending into chaos. It means the only way they are going to join the Big Ten now is as its 16th member.


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## The Janitor (Jan 23, 2009)

It's sounding to me as if the biggest piece in this puzzle right now is Texas aTm. From what I've been reading about on orangebloods.com and other places, it seems that Texas, Tejas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St. are ready to move to the pac-10 but are trying to sway aTm to follow them over to the pac instead of joining the SEC. This could create an opening for Utah to go to the pac, but I am hoping that at the end of this, BYU and Utah will be in the same conference. I don't care what conference, I just don't want to see the rivalry, which is the lifeblood of my interest in college football get tampered with.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

College football is like soap operas for dudes. :O--O:


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

GaryFish said:


> College football is like soap operas for dudes. :O--O:


That is so true. Sad, but true. I have been glued to ESPN all week, waiting to see what was going to happen next. Which conference was going to make the first move. Which school was going to be the first domino to fall. It is the ultimate Reality TV for guys!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

the latest http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11182619


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

It was on ESPN last night that the invitation has been extended for sure and that they'll announce it either late today or on Thursday. One of the buddies at the bar had a guy on the phone who was seeing it on ESPN's "bottom line" last night


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## KAFO (Oct 17, 2007)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=635&sid=11197034

It's now official!

GO UTES!


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

http://www.pac-10.org/genrel/061610aaa.html

Looks like it.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

So the Utes get invited. GREAT!

Now this question: Both Ute and Cougar fans have spent the last five years making a case that the MWC is just as good as the Pac-10, that in head to head, the MWC holds the advantage, etc..... So based on very passionate arguments from the last five years, shouldn't utefan be a little ticked, since they've spent the last five years claiming the MWC is better? Just sayin'. 

Personally - I think its a great move for the utes. Some major differences I see between the Pac-10 and MWC is the level of fan support. VERY few teams in the MWC travel fans to road games. At best, MWC teams will put 500-1000 people into LES on a fall day. Last year, I'd bet that Florida State traveled 4,000-5,000 people to that game. For road games to Laramie, Fort Collins, Albuquerque San Diego, and Vegas, BYU fans outnumber the home teams, and still play in far less than full small stadiums. In the Pac-10, the utahutes will find that their opponents will travel thousands of fans to RES, and it will be rockin'. And the smallest stadium in the Pac-10, is about the size of Rice-Eccles. No more playing in front of friends and family in New Mexico or Fort Worth. 60,000 to 100,000 for all conference road games (except WSU) will be the norm. It will really be great for utefan.


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

I honestly believe that MWC was better with the addition of Boise St. better than the Pac 10, the only problem is that the perception isn't good from around the country and while you still have teams like San Diego St, and UNLV on your schedule I don't really blame them. I really see the Utes competing right away in the PAC 10, with USC out for a while probably, I don't see many road blocks for Utah. Oregon is good, Cal is always tough Washington got a little better but who else? There road actually got easier i think, they don't have to go through TCU, Boise, BYU now. On the other hand they don't have the UNLV's any more to give them automatic wins and that is the major difference in the two conferences is that you have an off day against Arizona and you will get beat, where as you can sleep walk through UNLV.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

bowhunter3 said:


> I honestly believe that MWC was better with the addition of Boise St. better than the Pac 10, the only problem is that the perception isn't good from around the country and while you still have teams like San Diego St, and UNLV on your schedule I don't really blame them. I really see the Utes competing right away in the PAC 10, with USC out for a while probably, I don't see many road blocks for Utah. Oregon is good, Cal is always tough Washington got a little better but who else? There road actually got easier i think, they don't have to go through TCU, Boise, BYU now. On the other hand they don't have the UNLV's any more to give them automatic wins and that is the major difference in the two conferences is that you have an off day against Arizona and you will get beat, where as you can sleep walk through UNLV.


I hope you are right, but I think they are a third to fourth place team this upcoming year with the potential of winning the league.


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## bowhunter3 (Oct 18, 2007)

They wont play this year though


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

bowhunter3 said:


> They wont play this year though


Touche' I am a dumby. :lol: :mrgreen:


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

This will also be a great recruiting tool for the Utes. Lots more consideration will be given now that they are in a "big boy" conference. So when they finally start playing games in the Pac 12, they'll have some solid recruits and transfers to work with, in addition to what they have now. I'm glad the invite finally arrived! I too, think they're going to make their presence felt immediately. It will be interesting to see how it works out for them.


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## mm73 (Feb 5, 2010)

bowhunter3 said:


> There road actually got easier i think, they don't have to go through TCU, Boise, BYU now. On the other hand they don't have the UNLV's any more to give them automatic wins and that is the major difference in the two conferences is that you have an off day against Arizona and you will get beat, where as you can sleep walk through UNLV.


Didn't Utah get blown out by the Rebels not too long ago? I'm just sayin'.

Seriously though, congratulations to Utah. I really do mean that. I think the PAC-10/12 is a perfect fit for them, and I think they will be very competitive. The only thing that bothers me about this is some of the fans. After listening to many callers on local sports radio, and reading all the comments on local news sites, it appears that a lot of Ute fans are becoming insufferably arrogant and over-confident. I have heard several fans openly boast that the Utes have outgrown the MWC, including the rivalry with BYU! Really?! Didn't BYU and TCU both beat the Utes last year?! Weren't the Utes the 3rd place team in the MWC last year? Yes, they had some phenomenal seasons in 2004 and 2008, but every other year they have been pretty mediocre in the MWC. I don't mean to make this sound like sour grapes. I really do think this is a great move for Utah, and I don't blame them for even a moment for ditching the MWC, but I am already getting tired of Ute fans claiming they are going to be the next USC and they have outgrown the MWC. Maybe they have outgrown the MWC, but they are not the only ones.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

To me the top 4 teams in the MWC can compete in the pac 10 including BYU. The bottom feeders in the MWC are what drags it down and why the MWC does not have an automatic BCS birth. The bottom feeders in the pac 10 are better teams.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

mm73 said:


> Didn't BYU and TCU both beat the Utes last year?! Weren't the Utes the 3rd place team in the MWC last year? Yes, they had some phenomenal seasons in 2004 and 2008, but every other year they have been pretty mediocre in the MWC. I don't mean to make this sound like sour grapes. I really do think this is a great move for Utah, and I don't blame them for even a moment for ditching the MWC, but I am already getting tired of Ute fans claiming they are going to be the next USC and they have outgrown the MWC. Maybe they have outgrown the MWC, but they are not the only ones.


This persons quoted post is the goods.... they WILL NOT be the next USC... not for a while anyway. I was at the Oregon State game a couple years ago, and Oregon last year and to be the next USC, pretty much owning a big conference year in and year out, Utah has a bit of work in front of them. Not saying it can't happen eventually, but it won't happen overnight. I'm happy for them because now they might actually get some respect and I get some personal bennies out of being a season ticket holder (I really can't over emphasize how stoked I am right now), but it won't come as easy as most folks think. Playing a PAC 12 team once a year or once in a while is one thing... playing them week after week is a totally different story but it will sure make for some tough games. I don't think they'll have any games where they can just plan on it being a "rollover" game like when they play SDSU or UNLV.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So when will the Utes actually start PAC 12 play? I was under the impression that it wouldn't be until the 2012-2013 season, but my dad mentioned it could be as early as 2011-2012.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

2011...should start with the basketball season this year I believe...


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree that this is big news and exciting. BUT I am worried about it because just after the U was recognized as one of the top universities in the US, my tuition went up substantially. I am paying roughly $1000 now per 3 credit class. Stupid dumb!

So the point of my rant? I just hope this means that we will be given more chances in the sporting arena, but I dont want them to jack up my tuition again. :evil:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

stablebuck said:


> 2011...should start with the basketball season this year I believe...


Thats what my buddy and I were talking about last night and apparently because their "out of conference" schedule is set so early, they might not play Pac 12 football until the 2012 season. I don't know... of course I'm hoping for earlier, but I could wait another season I guess. At least we'll get one more shot at the Y in Rice Eccles.


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