# DC state park rangers what a joke



## plumber (Jan 28, 2008)

This is my first post and want to let everyone know that I enjoy reading your fishing reports on various areas. But this situation I had on sunday has got me P.O.ED so I would like your oppinion on the whole deal. I pulled into Deer Creek island marina 7:30 am sunday the 27th to fish with my two teenage boys. As I drove around to the boat ramp where I planned to unload my four wheeler. A state park ranger was talking to a feller that was unloading two snowmobiles as I got closer she stoped me, then proceeded to tell me that OHV'S were not allowed on there lake. I asked who's lake? she laughed. I asked why they wasn't allowing OHV'S on the ice and she couldn't answer me she said that they just decided that they wasn't allowing them on the ice any more and that it is left to there discretion. I then told her to refund my parking fee and that i was leaving, when she left to retrieve my pay envelope the feller that was unloading his snowmobiles come over to my truck and he told me that he was there saturday and he had his machines on the ice along with about a dozen or so others. what a bunch of B.S. you know its hard enough to keep teenagers intrested in the outdoors and keeping them out of trouble and then some dumb A has to pull this kind of crap. So maybe Im wrong but if any one of you can give me a reason why I shouldn't have my machine out on 
the ice I will shut up. any how left went to the Berry had a ball and iced about 20 fish between the three of us all in the slot .


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## McFishin (Dec 24, 2007)

unless they are going to outlaw boats on the lake I don't see any reason to ban wheelers or sleds. Nothing like prying a couple of teenagers out of bed before dawn, dragging them into the mountains and showing them how dad can get hassled by the man too. I think the state should invest in some training on tact for their officers. If they are banning vehicles it should be posted in plain site. This impromptu ban was probably used as an excuse to take a casual look at your gear(can you say illegal search?) to see if there was anything to write a ticket for.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Glad you guys got into fish at the Berry. I'm sure that was fun for the kids..... Bummer about the OHVs but I'm sure they have their reasons for not allowing them. Regardless of what Joe Q Public thinks the majority of the time, the state parks don't make their rules for the sole purpose of inconveniencing users of those machines. :? Oh, by the way, if you have your gear in plain sight, there is nothing illegal about a law enforcement officer taking a look.... thats called doing their job. Sorry you feel you got hassled but at least the officer went and got your money out for you. They could have made you go through a ton of paperwork to get your refund.... or just let you get out on the ice and written you a ticket. The sad thing is, this seems to be the attitude a lot of OHV users adopt when they're told no.... like its something personal when somebody blocks a road that used to be open, or restricts use on a lake, lakeshore or riverbank that used to be open to being thrashed by guys on wheelers.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2008)

I think they just have the safety of the public in mind, as well as their own liability. The ice at Deer Creek can be sketchy and I have heard that it is softening up around the edges lately. I dont blame you for being upset by try not to let it affect your attitude. It sounds like you were a lot better off at the Berry anyway. The reports I have read say that DC has been hit and miss.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> Glad you guys got into fish at the Berry. I'm sure that was fun for the kids..... Bummer about the OHVs but I'm sure they have their reasons for not allowing them. Regardless of what Joe Q Public thinks the majority of the time, the state parks don't make their rules for the sole purpose of inconveniencing users of those machines. :? Oh, by the way, if you have your gear in plain sight, there is nothing illegal about a law enforcement officer taking a look.... thats called doing their job. Sorry you feel you got hassled but at least the officer went and got your money out for you. They could have made you go through a ton of paperwork to get your refund.... or just let you get out on the ice and written you a ticket. The sad thing is, this seems to be the attitude a lot of OHV users adopt when they're told no.... like its something personal when somebody blocks a road that used to be open, or restricts use on a lake, lakeshore or riverbank that used to be open to being thrashed by guys on wheelers.


It could be because there were no signs stating ohv's were not allowed on ice. It also could have been a question of why it is o.k. for snowmobiles to be out but not ATV's. He also could be upset that no explantion was offered by the officer as to why he would not be allowed to take his machine out on the ice. Most of the ATV community is respectfull of the land we ride on and pays more than our share for the privledge of using our "PUBLIC" lands. To me from the tone of the post they guy has something against cops but I think his criticism of this officer was warrented. Blanket statements about a particular group of people always acting a certian way is sterotyping which is ignorant thinking. It would be similar to me calling you a "meat hunting poacher" because you use treble hooks on rivers where some spin fisherman attempt to "snag" large fish. I know you don't do that but think how ignorant that statement sounds. In case you are wondering yes I do own ATV's and yes I do get pissed off because more and more atv riding areas are being closed to save an endangered catus or protect "sensitive wildlife areas" that just became sensative because SUWA stuck some money in a legislators pocket. So now if they are going to start closing lakes to ATV's but open to snowmobiles I to have a problem with it. I suspect that there was probably to much slush on the ice for wheelers, but the officer could have let this person know that and the whole incodent could have been avoided! I will get off my soapbox now, sorry for the rant!


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## McFishin (Dec 24, 2007)

I take it personally when I'm told no over anything. I think that if machines of any sort are banned there should be an explanation. As a tax payer, I feal that I deserve an explanation. Ranger Rick not liking wheelers is not a good enough reason for me.


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## plumber (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh no my problem is not that the ranger was doing her job in fact I would be the first to turn in any one poaching , harassing wild life destroying wet lands ect...on a wheeler I have the uttmost respect for any law agency . my problem was that no posting as I drove into the park and no reason for keeping us off ,my wheeler is licenced and insured just as any boat would be. and the attitude that it was her lake, lets get real it our taxes and fees that keep any of these recreational opportunities open including her job!


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> It could be because there were no signs stating ohv's were not allowed on ice. It also could have been a question of why it is o.k. for snowmobiles to be out but not ATV's. He also could be upset that no explantion was offered by the officer as to why he would not be allowed to take his machine out on the ice.


It sounds like they were both offered an explanation..... it just wasn't "good enough" for him so he got ticked and went elsewhere. He was at a state park.... and yeah, they can change regs based on the conditions. There was a guy who posted the other day that he fell through into three feet of water.... so I'd guess safety was the issue, especially with wind and warmer temps. Isn't there a saying about shooting the messenger? 8) He also never said the guy went ahead and went out on the snow with his snowmobiles... sounds like they were both told to pack it up. Nothing to get bent about... especially if there are kids with ya... and if you want to fish the spot bad enough, have em hike out to the fishing spot. At least they'll stay warm getting there. :?



orvis1 said:


> Most of the ATV community is respectfull of the land we ride on and *pays more than our share for the privledge of using our "PUBLIC" lands*. To me from the tone of the post they guy has something against cops but I think his criticism of this officer was warrented. Blanket statements about a particular group of people always acting a certian way is sterotyping which is ignorant thinking. *It would be similar to me calling you a "meat hunting poacher" because you use treble hooks on rivers where some spin fisherman attempt to "snag" large fish.* I know you don't do that but think how ignorant that statement sounds. *In case you are wondering yes I do own ATV's and yes I do get **** off because more and more atv riding areas are being closed to save an endangered catus or protect "sensitive wildlife areas" that just became sensative because SUWA stuck some money in a legislators pocket.* So now if they are going to start closing lakes to ATV's but open to snowmobiles I to have a problem with it. I suspect that there was probably to much slush on the ice for wheelers, but the officer could have let this person know that and the whole incodent could have been avoided! I will get off my soapbox now, sorry for the rant!


So now people owe you because you own an ATV and have to pay for it? Thats ridiculous.... just because you own one, have to pay taxes on it (the rest of us have to pay those too) and pay use fees to park your oversized rigs and trailers in the state and BLM parking lots doesn't mean anyone owes the ATV users anything... if anything they're justified to maintain the land and roads that ATVs get to tear up all year long..... and its certainly not a RIGHT to ride the things all over creation and back, especially if you're told not to. Like you said in your post... its a privilege..... a privilege that can and more than likely will be suspended if safety, maintenance of the land, or any other situation becomes an immediate issue. So, based on your statements, because ATVs are around, we should just give up on preserving endangered species and habitat, whether its plants, animals or just an area with a delicate ecosystem that unfortunately for the ATV riders is too fragile to be ground into dust by big studded rubber tires? Do you have a justification for allowing ATVs in those areas or is it just more "they're out to get us and take away our fun" nonsense. Thats the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Was the Salt Lake south shoreline closed because of ATVs tearing up the shoreline and accessing closed areas that they weren't supposed to be in in the first place or was it just because the state decided on the spur of the moment to take out some government frustration on folks riding ATV's? Sure didn't stop the ATV folks from riding around out there this hunting season.... just like one incident at Deer Creek won't stop people from using them on the ice, whether they're supposed to or not, regardless of who tells them they can't ride them out there. This guy did the right thing, packed up and rode his wheelers out on Strawberry, managing to catch some fish and salvage the day for him and his kids. I'm glad he's not one of the knotheads out there that feels like the officer or anyone else owes him something just because he has a wheeler he intended to ride to the spot. Its a respect thing.... and the "they owe me" crowd are seriously lacking in that.

About the fishing comment.... if I was fishing in an area that had a bag snagger rap, then I wouldn't be too bent if somebody slapped me with that (they have only heard about or encountered folks practicing those ethics), and I doubt the officers I encountered would come right up to me with an antagonistic attitude looking to just write me a ticket for snagging. If I was conducting myself in a legal manner, then I'd have nothing to be upset about right?? 8)



McFishin said:


> *I take it personally when I'm told no over anything*. I think that if machines of any sort are banned there should be an explanation. As a tax payer, I feal that I deserve an explanation. *Ranger Rick not liking wheelers is not a good enough reason for me*.


Thank you for showing the lack of respect that I'm trying to get across to Orvis1. You did a fine job of volunteering. :lol:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> *I think they just have the safety of the public in mind, as well as their own liability.* The ice at Deer Creek can be sketchy and I have heard that it is softening up around the edges lately. I dont blame you for being upset by try not to let it affect your attitude. It sounds like you were a lot better off at the Berry anyway. The reports I have read say that DC has been hit and miss.


I gotta agree with this....she wouldn't let us park by the water in the ramp area either. Probably due to liability, people getting stuck, litter problems, etc. Somebody is making the rules, I just wish I knew when and where they could be posted... 

btw....She seemed to be a very polite and understanding person.....I'm sure she is just doing her job.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Yes I do believe that if I pay taxes and user fees to own, register, insure, and operate motor vehicles that money should be used to maintian and improve the areas I use them in. This would be similar to spending money on a fishing licence only to have your favorite stream/lake closed to protect the utah humpback chub. NO ONE CARES about that species! The same thing just happened to a very popular riding area that has been around forever but SUWA found a rare endangered catcus so now the whole area is shut down for a "wilderness study" these are the same Waco's that want to drain lake powell to resore the colorado river basin. Studded rubber tires? Obviously you have spent little time on an ATV or near the ATV crowd we use rubber tires with less than 10lbs of pressure. Do you want to ban snowmobiles, moutian bikes, and off road trucks to, because they may leave a track. This argument about a few individuals ruining the riding for the rest of it really get's me. Do we close the lake to fishing because we caught some poachers? Enforce the laws that we already have and we can eliminate the "few bad apples". I like you do feel a sense of entitlement because my tax money, and I promise I pay way more of it than you, goes to manage "public" lands. That means the people in the state office that take the stance they own the land need to learn they just work for the goverment. Goverment workers are always different than those who earn their money in the "private sector" because we are not guaranteed raises every year, jobs that are nearly impossible to lose, guaranteed benefits, and a company that will never go out of business. I was trying to point out to you the fact that you sterotype a group of people it is ignorant thinking. I will not back down from that statement nor will I ever be happy that lands designated for ATV use are dissapearing at an alarming rate every day. I wonder if there will be more than a half dozen places for my daughter to ride when she becomes an adult. I also was trying to point out that some state employees feel they do not owe the public an explanation of the rules because they are in charge!


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## great googly moogly (Jan 26, 2008)

it seems most of the time state employees have it all wrong, they work for us, not the other way around . . you wanna search my stuff, get a warrant! that goes for cops too!

state parks and fishing spots shouldnt be opportunities to make a profit, they should be free and managed to take a big loss . . one we are all paying for in licenses and taxes . . i havent been to one utah state park with a whit....

lots of unfriendly people with big fees, and mis-managed lakes . . thats utah in a nutshell


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## McFishin (Dec 24, 2007)

McFishin said:


> *I take it personally when I'm told no over anything*. I think that if machines of any sort are banned there should be an explanation. As a tax payer, I feal that I deserve an explanation. *Ranger Rick not liking wheelers is not a good enough reason for me*.


Thank you for showing the lack of respect that I'm trying to get across to Orvis1. You did a fine job of volunteering. :lol:[/quote]

Lack of respect? How so? It seems that you see the world with a very narrow view. Arn't you the same guy that said you should have to paddle everywhere during the cutler res. debate? Just so you know, your opinion means very little to me. That is disrespectfull. Now you know the difference.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> Yes I do believe that if I pay taxes and user fees to own, register, insure, and operate motor vehicles that money should be used to maintian and improve the areas I use them in. This would be similar to spending money on a fishing licence only to have your favorite stream/lake closed to protect the utah humpback chub. *NO ONE CARES about that species!* The same thing just happened to a very popular riding area that has been around forever but SUWA found a rare endangered catcus so now the whole area is shut down for a "wilderness study" these are the same Waco's that want to drain lake powell to resore the colorado river basin. Studded rubber tires? Obviously you have spent little time on an ATV or near the ATV crowd we use rubber tires with less than 10lbs of pressure. *Do you want to ban snowmobiles, moutian bikes, and off road trucks to, because they may leave a track.* This argument about a few individuals ruining the riding for the rest of it really get's me. Do we close the lake to fishing because we caught some poachers? Enforce the laws that we already have and we can eliminate the "few bad apples". I like you do feel a sense of entitlement because my tax money, and I promise I pay way more of it than you, goes to manage "public" lands. That means the people in the state office that take the stance they own the land need to learn they just work for the goverment. Goverment workers are always different than those who earn their money in the "private sector" because we are not guaranteed raises every year, jobs that are nearly impossible to lose, guaranteed benefits, and a company that will never go out of business. I was trying to point out to you the fact that you sterotype a group of people it is ignorant thinking. I will not back down from that statement nor will I ever be happy that lands designated for ATV use are dissapearing at an alarming rate every day. I wonder if there will be more than a half dozen places for my daughter to ride when she becomes an adult. I also was trying to point out that some state employees feel they do not owe the public an explanation of the rules because they are in charge!


Nobody cares?? Or you don't care?? :wink: Why not close an area if its warranted? Should we leave it open just because somebody owns one of the "vehicles" you listed or should there be more that plays into the decision than that? I have no problem with people having and using ATV's, snowmobiles, rock crawlers or any of that.... I think they're fun and love riding them... in fact, I may be buying an ATV in the near future. Will that change my attitude about them?? No.... I'll still feel lucky to get to ride when and where I can and won't go out thinking that everywhere should be open for me to ride. That just doesn't make sense to me man... and the original poster clarified that he doesn't feel that way, which I thought was cool. He sounds like a guy who was a little irritated at a minor incident while he was trying to show the kids a good time, so they went elsewhere and had their fun. When I go elk hunting and see a fence marked off limits to ATVs knocked down and ridden over, see guys trying to sneak their ATV out on the shore of the GSL that is clearly marked no ATV access and other folks run into that same mindset in so many other places, it doesn't create a changing attitude in me or other folks who view this same stuff over and over.... why should we change how we feel when we just see folks reinforcing our "stereotype" over and over? I understand your frustration with the "group" being labeled because of the actions of a few nincompoops who tarnish the public image of OHV users and I'm realistic enough to understand that not everyone who owns one is that way, but it definitely sours my attitude on them to see so much of it going on. Is it going to stop me from using one or owning one? Heck no... they're a blast when used responsibly.... as folks like you and others are trying to prove. I look forward to being a responsible, respectful rider who can help change the poor image the "good guys" are saddled with by so many who don't have any experience with ATV's or the people who ride them.

Great Googly Moogly (great movies by the way), is it lots of unfriendly people working understaffed for the state at state parks run by skeleton crews or is it grumpy old codgers and ornery youngsters who foster an unpleasant environment by their attitude in their interactions with those same overworked employees? 8) Something to chew on... or gum to death, depending on your age and dental status.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

AMEN BROTHA! Sometimes state workers don't realize who pays thier salary! We in the public sector have to treat our customers with respect and courtesy otherwise they will not buy our products. But if you work for the state there is no competition you either buy our product or you don't get to fish, hunt, drive our vehicle, take your boat/atv out, or register your camping trailer. I will tell you a story my grandfather told me about people who think the are more important than they really are:

Thousands of people paid big money to come hear a noted speaker give his motivational speach at the local convention center. After all the speaches it was time to have the dinner and all sat down to eat. The speaker was seated at the head table looking with all the other important people gathered to hear him. When the food was served he asked for another pat of butter from the waiter. The waiter told him he was under strict instructions that people were to get 1 pat of butter for each roll. The speaker wanting to give the waiter an opportunity to re-think his response asked him do you know who I am? I am the reason that these thousands of people came here paid all this money and you have this job to do tonight, now I ask you again can I have another pat of butter. The waiter looked at him and asked him do you know who I am? The speaker responded no.

*I AM IN CHARGE OF THE BUTTER*

The lesson learned is don't think you are so important because you get to make little decisions that effect others.


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## McFishin (Dec 24, 2007)

All the ranger would have had to say was "the ice is thin so we are not allowing vehicles". Refer to my original post which said they need some training in tact.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

McFishin said:


> McFishin said:
> 
> 
> > *I take it personally when I'm told no over anything*. I think that if machines of any sort are banned there should be an explanation. As a tax payer, I feal that I deserve an explanation. *Ranger Rick not liking wheelers is not a good enough reason for me*.
> ...


Lack of respect? How so? It seems that you see the world with a very narrow view. Arn't you the same guy that said you should have to paddle everywhere during the cutler res. debate? Just so you know, your opinion means very little to me. That is disrespectfull. Now you know the difference.[/quote]

You ask how thats a lack of respect like you don't know. I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You think referring to a LE officer as Ranger Rick is openminded? Thats ridiculous.... and if thats openminded, then I'll keep my close minded views. About Cutler, I didn't say the whole lake should be paddled, just that perhaps having the whole lake including the channelized area in the restricted zone open to mud motors or others running full bore probably isn't in the areas best interest. Exact wording?? No, probably not. But then, you're probably one who took the enforcement of wakeless and HP restrictions as "the man" coming down on you and ruining your fun. God forbid you think outside your own little box. Who is the narrow minded one? The guy seeing the big picture and understanding some regulations are necessary to preserve the use of the entire lake for recreation?? Or the guy who pitches a fit because a section is reserved and restricted for ecological, safety and other reasons and winds up getting Pacificorp (who isn't the government) to cut off all use other than for their interests? 8) Thankfully that was avoided but it was by folks with cooler heads doing the negotiating, not by hotheads who think that any new rules are just because somebody is out to get them. Perhaps the officer in this situation was not completely informed about why the lake was being closed to ATVs.... so she didn't know the correct answer. She was willing however, to go and get his money out for him.... doesn't seem too antagonistic to me. Quite helpful actually.... she had every chance to be a complete raunch about the new regs and wasn't. Doesn't sound like she was lacking any sort of areas regarding interpersonal communication but you'd have chewed her a new one wouldn't you? Who would have needed some lessons in tact then?


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

I got any idea.Why do all of the people that bad mouth the so called "public employees" go try out out for a week. I get so tired of hear how they work for us. How they need to do what we tell them. That they need to remeber who is paying them there pay checks. How they all do not good and just abuse our tax money. How all they do is make us take it right up our behinds. How if it was not for them we could enjoy all of the things that we have a "right" to. How they do not work fast enough or good enough and they are over paid for what tehy do. How they all need to learn a little tact and they all need to show every one a little respect. Give me a break people. Give them a break also. Try doing what they do for a living and see if you still feel the same way. I can give you dozens of expales of how bad they really are and how they are wasting our tax money. They are just trying to do there job just as you and me.

As for the origanal post. That sucks but that is life. As for what river is saying I agree 100% with you.



> I wonder if there will be more than a half dozen places for my daughter to ride when she becomes an adult.


Truthfully that is about a half dozen place more then I wish she could ride. I have done the ATV thing for ever. I will never go back to one. If I get to the point where I can not walk or drive my truck then it might be time for me to give it up.


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## McFishin (Dec 24, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> McFishin said:
> 
> 
> > McFishin said:
> ...


You ask how thats a lack of respect like you don't know. I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You think referring to a LE officer as Ranger Rick is openminded? Thats ridiculous.... and if thats openminded, then I'll keep my close minded views. About Cutler, I didn't say the whole lake should be paddled, just that perhaps having the whole lake including the channelized area in the restricted zone open to mud motors or others running full bore probably isn't in the areas best interest. Exact wording?? No, probably not. But then, you're probably one who took the enforcement of wakeless and HP restrictions as "the man" coming down on you and ruining your fun. God forbid you think outside your own little box. Who is the narrow minded one? The guy seeing the big picture and understanding some regulations are necessary to preserve the use of the entire lake for recreation?? Or the guy who pitches a fit because a section is reserved and restricted for ecological, safety and other reasons and winds up getting Pacificorp (who isn't the government) to cut off all use other than for their interests? 8) Thankfully that was avoided but it was by folks with cooler heads doing the negotiating, not by hotheads who think that any new rules are just because somebody is out to get them. Perhaps the officer in this situation was not completely informed about why the lake was being closed to ATVs.... so she didn't know the correct answer. She was willing however, to go and get his money out for him.... doesn't seem too antagonistic to me. Quite helpful actually.... she had every chance to be a complete raunch about the new regs and wasn't. Doesn't sound like she was lacking any sort of areas regarding interpersonal communication but you'd have chewed her a new one wouldn't you? Who would have needed some lessons in tact then?[/quote]

For such an open minded person you make alot of asumptions about me and other people. We could open a whole new thread about cutler, but thankfully cooler heads did prevail. I didnt know that Ranger Rick was such an offensive term. How about Crick Dick? Fish Cop? Cop itself could be cinsidered offensive to some I suppose. How about giving me a list of words that you aprove of for me to use on this forum? RiverRat77 is a nickname also I would imagine, can we use that or should we call you something else. The rats might be offended by the unauthorized use of their good name.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

So weatherby you work for the goverment and hate ATV's, so discussing the matter with you is similar to trying to convince a republican that Hillary Clinton is the best canidate it will never happen. Responsible riders who pay taxes, insure and register thier machines, wear safety equipment, and stay on designated trails should not be punished for irresponsible riders actions. That is what is happening now and I am saddened that my children will not have the same opportunities that I have had to explore this state on an ATV! So if this is the logic our legislators use, can we get jet ski's banned from lake powell because of irresponsible riders OH wait they are already working on that. Can I get anyone over 60 banned from driving thier Buick in front of me because of thier slow reaction times, they are a danger to me driving?


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Plumber,
did the Park Employee say that snowmobiles were allowed?
Was the guy that you talked to going to continue to take his snowmobile out on the ice, or was he also told that he couldn't use his machine there?

Last year this same topic came up.
The big question that everyone had was, where can you use OHV's and or Snowmobiles on State Park Waters.[ICE]
The answer that I remember was,
each State Park will decide for themselves, whether or not to let vehichles on the ice.
There was an outcry from the public to make all State Parks the same. Either all Parks allow OHV's and Snowmobiles on the ice or none of them do.
Nothing was changed that I know of.
Each Park can still decide how they want to handle OHV's.
I think that this is better than all Parks banning all OHV's on the ice.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

orivs
I do not work for the gov. I do not hate ATV.I do however hate jetskis. I hate the way that there are being ridden. Yes I know it is by just a few. But it is that few that I seam to only be seeing these days. If it is only a few that are the problems why is that all I am seeing now.


> Responsible riders who pay taxes, insure and register thier machines, wear safety equipment, and stay on designated trails should not be punished for irresponsible riders actions.


Agreed but this is not the majority any more. It is more like the minority. It comes to a point where you have to do away with the bad even if there is still good. May point is still the same. Do not nock it until you have tried it. Once you have done there job then you have more of a right to complain.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

McFishin said:


> *RiverRat77 is a nickname also I would imagine*, can we use that or should we call you something else. The rats might be offended by the unauthorized use of their good name.


Its a given name... on my birth certificate and everything. 8) I was glad to see you have no further intelligent comments to make defending your position and as is usually the case with folks like you who can't see past their initial burst of emotion fueled babbling, resort to running down my forum name or anything else you can come up with in a desperate attempt to offend me. Good for you.... I'm glad that I'm on one side of the fence and you're quite obviously on another. Yes... if I was a law enforcement officer, I would be offended... not by your use of slang to describe my profession but by the simple fact that I'd have to deal with folks like you regarding simple situations like this almost every day. CO's have one of the hardest jobs out there with regard to the people they encounter and are forced to tolerate so I give the lady credit for maintaining her composure in what seems to be a situation ripe with opportunity for hostility. Good on the dad too for just going elsewhere and keeping his kids in the game.... it sounds like it turned out very well for you guys. I'm sure they'll be up for more successful trips out with Dad. Orvis1, I hope you and some of the other guys who are gung ho ATVers succeed in maintaining the open trails that are available now... and that the legislature seriously considers opening new areas if its warranted. It is a bummer that so many of the irresponsible folks ruin public image for guys like yourself and other responsible riders.... I'm totally not against ATV's but am against them being used irresponsibly, just like anyone who considers themselves stewards of the "wild" areas we have left should be. Its not about us... its about the folks that follow us and their children so I'm sure decency on both sides will only help the cause as opposed to creating enough friction to close the door on any compromise that might be struck.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> It could be because there were no signs stating ohv's were not allowed on ice.


It was even better than that. The state took enough time and money to send a talking sign there to tell people, who in many cases would reply "I didn't see a sign", that there were no ATV's allowed BEFORE they unloaded their machines.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

McFishin said:


> All the ranger would have had to say was "the ice is thin so we are not allowing vehicles". Refer to my original post which said they need some training in tact.


So, since she didn't say it how you wanted to hear it, you are complaining? The word IS complaining.

I'll post this for grandpa again:

Last year this same topic came up.
The big question that everyone had was, where can you use OHV's and or Snowmobiles on State Park Waters.[ICE]
The answer that I remember was,
each State Park will decide for themselves, whether or not to let vehichles on the ice.
There was an outcry from the public to make all State Parks the same. Either all Parks allow OHV's and Snowmobiles on the ice or none of them do.
Nothing was changed that I know of.
Each Park can still decide how they want to handle OHV's.
I think that this is better than all Parks banning all OHV's on the ice.

Go ahead, whine on.


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## rapalahunter (Oct 13, 2007)

Or just don't ice fish. It's too cold anyway. :shock:


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> orivs
> I do not work for the gov. I do not hate ATV.I do however hate jetskis. I hate the way that there are being ridden. Yes I know it is by just a few. But it is that few that I seam to only be seeing these days. If it is only a few that are the problems why is that all I am seeing now.
> 
> 
> ...


I will disagree that most are following the rules and a few are not complying. Most of the people I meet on the trail are the most friendly group of people that always wave and say hi. They also stop and help somone that is stuck, broke down, or out of gas. I fish frequently and I have to say ATV people are more likely to say hi back than fisherman. I work in sales so a goverment sales job is really not in the cards for me, the goverment doesn't really need salespeople. I ride with an ATV club and without our club and you would be surprised at the number of families taking up the sport. Done properly it is a great way to get outside with kids and get them away from the movies/games.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> McFishin said:
> 
> 
> > *RiverRat77 Orvis1, I hope you and some of the other guys who are gung ho ATVers succeed in maintaining the open trails that are available now... and that the legislature seriously considers opening new areas if its warranted. It is a bummer that so many of the irresponsible folks ruin public image for guys like yourself and other responsible riders.... I'm totally not against ATV's but am against them being used irresponsibly, just like anyone who considers themselves stewards of the "wild" areas we have left should be. Its not about us... its about the folks that follow us and their children so I'm sure decency on both sides will only help the cause as opposed to creating enough friction to close the door on any compromise that might be struck.*


*

I promise you will feel differently about the subject when you have invested in machines, toyhaulers, diesel trucks, insurance, and registration fees only to see the minority ruin the sport for the majority. More and more trails are closed every year and so few new ones are ever opened. You would surprised to discover the amount of time and effort the ATV communty puts into trail restoration, clean up projects, and fundraising for charity. The club I belong to has a ride for life that donates over 20K to charity each year. But it does not sell newspapers or T.V. advertising so only the drunk idiots get headlines.*


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> I will disagree that most are following the rules and a few are not complying.


Ok we will agree to dissagree. But if you ever want proof take a drive up farmigton cayon or boutiful peak on a sat. Take a drive on the grest western trail in the cache valley. Drive around the backroad in the strawberry area. heck we are not even going to talk about the dunes. Even the lake mt or vernon. I was talking to a forest ranger in the Logan ranger sation. She was telling me that they have found that in the south cache are there is no more then 5 miles in between atv roads. A lot of thouse roads where made by people fallowing the law. It was back when you could go off road to retieve your game during the hunt. Now they are just roads. If you really do not belive me take a drive just about anyplace on the opening morning of the rifle deer hunt. Anyways we have gotten away from the point of this thread.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> I promise you will feel differently about the subject when you have invested in machines, toyhaulers, diesel trucks, insurance, and registration fees only to see the minority ruin the sport for the majority.


That is a big diffrance in me and you. I will not buy that stuff. So to see the guys showing up with the toyhaulers diesel trucks and all that stuff is great for them, but not for me I like to be in the hills to get away from that city stuff. I think it is great that your club does that. Yet it only takes one bad atv rider to undo all of that.



> I work in sales so a goverment sales job is really not in the cards for me, the goverment doesn't really need salespeople.


Ok then. It has nothing to do with if they need you or not. It has to do with try doing there job so you know what they deal with. After all it is like saying all sales guys are liers and cheats.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> > I will disagree that most are following the rules and a few are not complying.
> 
> 
> Ok we will agree to dissagree. But if you ever want proof take a drive up farmigton cayon or boutiful peak on a sat. Take a drive on the grest western trail in the cache valley. Drive around the backroad in the strawberry area. heck we are not even going to talk about the dunes. Even the lake mt or vernon. I was talking to a forest ranger in the Logan ranger sation. She was telling me that they have found that in the south cache are there is no more then 5 miles in between atv roads. A lot of thouse roads where made by people fallowing the law. It was back when you could go off road to retieve your game during the hunt. Now they are just roads. If you really do not belive me take a drive just about anyplace on the opening morning of the rifle deer hunt. Anyways we have gotten away from the point of this thread.


That sounds fair. I ride up behind daniels summit lodge a lot and that part is tame. I agree the dunes are crazy and vernon can be as well. If you get away from the crowds and trial ride like my family does it also can be tame. I can't argue with you about hunters going wherever they feel like going. Between them and the 2wd get drunk and ride as fast as you can without regards to others safety those groups are really giving the sport a black eye. Go to the piute trail, fishlake places where you will find family rides and you may think differently about the sport.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> > I promise you will feel differently about the subject when you have invested in machines, toyhaulers, diesel trucks, insurance, and registration fees only to see the minority ruin the sport for the majority.
> 
> 
> That is a big diffrance in me and you. I will not buy that stuff. So to see the guys showing up with the toyhaulers diesel trucks and all that stuff is great for them, but not for me I like to be in the hills to get away from that city stuff. I think it is great that your club does that. Yet it only takes one bad atv rider to undo all of that.
> ...


Ok then. It has nothing to do with if they need you or not. It has to do with try doing there job so you know what they deal with. After all it is like saying all sales guys are liers and cheats.[/quote:3g8o4evb]

The first comment was for riverratt because he mentioned buying some ATV's. You are right there is some real scum in sales, but the ones who are ethical still make good money and can sleep at night


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## McFishin (Dec 24, 2007)

> So, since she didn't say it how you wanted to hear it, you are complaining? The word IS complaining.


I never said I was there, nobody said anything to me. I simply posted a reply on the subject. And since when is it a crime to want an explanation?



> [I[quote:29bl4xwb] was glad to see you have no further intelligent comments to make defending your position and as is usually the case with folks like you who can't see past their initial burst of emotion fueled babbling, resort to running down my forum name or anything else you can come up with in a desperate attempt to offend me. Good for you.... I'm glad that I'm on one side of the fence and you're quite obviously on another. Yes... if I was a law enforcement officer, I would be offended... not by your use of slang to describe my profession but by the simple fact that I'd have to deal with folks like you regarding simple situations like this almost every day. CO's have one of the hardest jobs out there with regard to the people they encounter and are forced to tolerate so I give the lady credit for maintaining her composure in what seems to be a situation ripe with opportunity for hostility.


[/quote:29bl4xwb] /quote]

When have I been hostile to any of the CD's(is it less offensive if it is abbreviated?). Again you are making assumptions and presenting them as fact. I have been respectful and courteous on every occasion that I have dealt with the FC's. Perhaps the LE officers(is that better?) job would be easier if they used more tact as I have stated before. As a final burst of emotion fueled babbling I would like to suggest that riverrat77 change his screen name to "self richeous hippie". I'm done with you now, if you want to argue more you will have to track me down on another thread.


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## schaueelab (Dec 30, 2007)

lets all just walk after all we are americans we need the excersize any way


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

ATV Orvis... not plural. My wife is tiny so she can ride with me..... and it'll have to fit in my truck. I'm not going to be like the one commercial on tv that shows the two dudes with the boat, fifth wheel, dirtbikes and jetskis all pulled behind their truck.... I figure it won't be that much since I won't need a trailer (thats what the bigger truck will be for, although a buddy puts his in his Ranger) and I won't be taking them anywhere near the lakes for some ice riding. Like I said, when I get one (1) I look forward to being a responsible user in the areas that are left open.... I certainly don't plan to condone off trail riding or change my expectations of the authorities in charge of regulating ATV use just because now I actually own one. I may be in for a rude awakening but at this point, I don't see there being much difference.... the guys that abuse or take advantage of their ownership will still make the rest of the folks doing things right look just as bad to the public as the few bad apples. This has swerved far from Plumbers original post but I think folks like him are examples of how things should be... if there isn't access in one area, there are other places to go and there are enough people doing trail riding and things like that, that I don't see the state completely eliminating their use. Its like any of the other outdoor pursuits I guess in that the state can only monitor so much of the state with an understaffed agency and it'll come down to folks having to police their own groups while they're out so that we don't all wind up losing ground after its all said and done.

McFishin.... you're bringing up tact when it was clearly not a situation the officer should have handled any differently. She got the fellow back his money, passed on the information that the state park no longer allowed OHV use on the ice and there wasn't much more she could have done. I think you're mistaking being informed (expecting her to have more info on why the change was made) for having more tact. They're not the same. I suppose in the heat of the moment though, one could unknowingly mistake one for the other... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you would realize tact is required on both sides..... you come off with a bad attitude, you'll more than likely get it right back in spades from an officer who originally just wanted to keep people within the confines of the park regulations. If I should change my name to self righteous hippie, you'll have to change your name to "Homie the Clown"... you know, being anti-establishment and all that. HOMIE DON'T PLAY DAT!!


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

Sorry to jump in but I know Mcfishin very well, and Riverrat a better name for him would be Homey Da *******! Trust Me Mcfishin and I deal with law enforcement almost daily and yes there are some with more tact than others. I'm not getting involved in the argument, I don't care what the reason behind not letting atv's on the ice. Just saying Mcfishin knows crap from cool when it pertains to public employees.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

What's the deal with firemen's dislike of cops. I watch reno 911 all the time, and man those guys are jealous of the firemen. And the firemen seem to think the cops are dumb asses.


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

it's because we both have one thing in commom... we both want to be firemen


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> What's the deal with firemen's dislike of cops. I watch reno 911 all the time, and man those guys are jealous of the firemen. And the firemen seem to think the cops are dumb asses.


I guess they just don't understand why cops don't allow more people to get paid for being involved with hose. :lol: Ok, lame I know.

Seriously Poo, it really comes down to your reaction to them. If they come off as jerks, or your interpretation of their actions is that they're being that way unnecessarily, just be friendly.... put em at ease with you and things usually sweeten right up. Respect is cool but it has to work both ways.


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## Poo Pie (Nov 23, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> fixed blade said:
> 
> 
> > What's the deal with firemen's dislike of cops. I watch reno 911 all the time, and man those guys are jealous of the firemen. And the firemen seem to think the cops are dumb asses.
> ...


I generally don't have problems. Usually cops see my firefighter plates and are pretty cool with me from the start, never been arrested or never had a traffic ticket..... firefighter plates- yet another reason they may be jealous :wink: Seriously, I have a lot of respect for law enforcement. I see the B.S. they have to deal with daily, and people hate them just to hate them. Firemen can be just as big of A-holes to John Q, but we're are still loved- maybe yet another reason :wink:


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## Edward K. Galleck (Dec 15, 2007)

We are a sue happy culture. I guarantee if Plumber had busted through the ice and drowned on his machine, some attorney would be calling up the grieving family saying the State of Utah should be sued for negligence. A few years ago a guy was hiking in Zion National Park. There were warnings in the visitors center to be on the watch for potential flash floods. Sure enough this guy got killed in a flash flood in a slot canyon. His family sued the National Park Service and won a multi million law suit. The Judge reasoned that the Park Service did not adequately warn the idiot hiker.


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## Improv (Sep 8, 2007)

Since we are all in a good mood, let’s talk about the mishandling of fish?

Stir, stir, stir…
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I can certainly appreciate being upset over having to relocate and being told "not today and not here," but I can see the reason for it, it certainly can be very dangerous especially with the weather from Friday-Sunday on a vehicle with 700+lbs (with rider). I think the CO's are usually very understanding and patient, but I can appreciate how one could have had enough with every single person with which he/she speaks being upset and smart A's. Particularly if you give them lip; they are justified in giving it back.

I guess, what we can learn from this; don't bother at DC; head east! Thanks for the update.


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## El Sombrero (Jan 29, 2008)

*Glad to see the SUWA members out in force*

There are 100,000+ registered ATV's in Utah.

You treehuggers better learn to live with it.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> There are 100,000+ registered ATV's in Utah.
> 
> You treehuggers better learn to live with it.


Your name says it all. You and your 100,000+ registered user better learn to live with what you got. It anit gonna get any better for ya. Unless you brake the law.

See what I mean Orvis nuff said.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Weatherby25 this goes to show my orginal point to riverratt you can't say one group of people always have this trait. There is good and bad in every group and it is to bad the rotten apples stick out and smell. I hope you enjoy your ATV but I warn you one leads to two then a trailer, then why not a toyhauler, then oh look a small boat to tow behind then WAMO you are just like me. When you get your wheeler shoot me a P.M. I can show you a few spots to ride/fish combo. I am also a wimp, I won't take mine on the ice either but I will defend our access laws to the end. Like in all sports if we can just self police and follow the existing rules we can all share the land.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> Weatherby25 this goes to show my orginal point to riverratt you can't say one group of people always have this trait. There is good and bad in every group and it is to bad the rotten apples stick out and smell. I hope you enjoy your ATV but I warn you one leads to two then a trailer, then why not a toyhauler, then oh look a small boat to tow behind then WAMO you are just like me. When you get your wheeler shoot me a P.M. I can show you a few spots to ride/fish combo. I am also a wimp, I won't take mine on the ice either but I will defend our access laws to the end. *Like in all sports if we can just self police and follow the existing rules we can all share the land*.


I'll do it.... we still have to fish together you know... I'm just not sure I can do the ice thing. I heard what you said about ATV's applies to tattoos too and so far I've managed to stay with the one I've got. I'm hoping that proves true when I get the ATV. *Crosses fingers*. I'm thinking I've got a couple ride/fish spots also that we could check out. I really, really buy into your last sentence.... nothing with more truth to it than that. ER... no treehugger/hippie/granola here but statements like yours certainly show how they might have a point in their arguments. :?


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

We do need to fish, your post on DF made me jealous I love that place. But with the pounding we will be taking over the next few days I think spring is a long time away still.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

So if the original poster were allowed to take his ATV's out onto the ice, and then fell through and drowned who would be to blame? Not the person who didn't use common sense and took their ATV's out onto ice (that was turning to slush with the warm temps by the way), it would be the officer. Then she would be sued and loose everything she has, becasue we as joe Q public aren't smart enough to police ourselves. I'm sure it was a liability issue and nothing more. 

As for the people who think all of us public servants work for them you are right and wrong. We are the first one you bash when you can't ride your ATV onto thin ice, and the first one you call when you get you but in a ringer, because you or someone else did something you probably shouldn't have. It's a thankless job, but one day you'll be glad we were there, and glad you spent all that good tax money on my salary. Oh and BTW I want a raise! Your welcome in advance. JMHO


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

martymcfly73 now that is something I can agree with.


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## tcb (Sep 26, 2007)

Over the years, I've been involved in a lot of sports, unfortunately most of them controversial. Motorcycling, hunting, fishing, skiing, windsurfing, archery, hiking, camping, etc. The common link between them, however, has been the divisiveness and intolerance, even within individual groups. Cruiser riders hating sportbikers, archers hating gun hunters, primitive archers hating compound archers, fly fishermen hating spin or baitfishermen, kiters hating windsurfers, etc. Takes most of the fun out of the sports. This phenomenon seems to be getting much worse over the last twenty or so years, and I believe it's due to the shear numbers of people involved in these sports. Put two rats in a box, and they are best friends. Three and there will be an occasional fight. Ten, and they will kill and eat each other. Doesn't bode well for the future of our sorts, does it? In the mean time, I'll keep waving to and talking to ALL outdoorsmen, regardless of there chosen method of enjoying the outdoors.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2008)

martymcfly73 said:


> So if the original poster were allowed to take his ATV's out onto the ice, and then fell through and drowned who would be to blame? Not the person who didn't use common sense and took their ATV's out onto ice (that was turning to slush with the warm temps by the way), it would be the officer. Then she would be sued and loose everything she has, becasue we as joe Q public aren't smart enough to police ourselves. I'm sure it was a liability issue and nothing more.
> 
> As for the people who think all of us public servants work for them you are right and wrong. We are the first one you bash when you can't ride your ATV onto thin ice, and the first one you call when you get you but in a ringer, because you or someone else did something you probably shouldn't have. It's a thankless job, but one day you'll be glad we were there, and glad you spent all that good tax money on my salary. Oh and BTW I want a raise! Your welcome in advance. JMHO


+1

Well said.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> martymcfly73 said:
> 
> 
> > So if the original poster were allowed to take his ATV's out onto the ice, and then fell through and drowned who would be to blame? Not the person who didn't use common sense and took their ATV's out onto ice (that was turning to slush with the warm temps by the way), it would be the officer. Then she would be sued and loose everything she has, becasue we as joe Q public aren't smart enough to police ourselves. I'm sure it was a liability issue and nothing more.
> ...


+1000

Guess what, Public employees pay their own salary too, So really they are as much as their own boss as you are theirs. People think that state & federal employees work for them as a individual, WRONG , Your elected officials work for you as a individual. Government employees work for whats in the best interest of the government or a majority of the people, not you as a individual. Your elected officials decide whats in the best interest of the government.

I agree that it was closed because of the unsafe ice conditions on parts of the lake, and I also agree that the employee could have used a little tact, But I guess it also depends on how she was treated when she said it was a no-go. Only 1 person from this post was actually there & knows what went on completely.

Government work and work in the private sector is like comparing apples to oranges. In the private sector, The customer is always right, you tell the customer what they want to hear for the most part. Government work, you tell them basically how it is(your lawmakers make the rules). Sorry, But if somebody in the government sector tells somebody something they dont like, its not like you can give them a 50% off coupon for their next purchase  .

Im kind of mixed on the issue of the atv's, We have some, use them nearly every weekend during the summer, But at the same time, I have seen what types of damage has been done because of them. 90% get screwed because of the 10% of irresponsible owners. Why make new laws when the laws they currently have are not being enforced?? Then comes the easy part, Close it down to all ATV's, then the gov wont need to watch every move of every individual making sure they are obeying the laws.

I definately dont want to see anything get closed down, But realisticly I dont think they will have a choice, because as of right now, the bad outweighs the good


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## plumber (Jan 28, 2008)

wow! for my first post it seems i realy struck a few nerves Ill keep it simple next time and only tell how the fishing was . I just had a few places in mind on the far east side of the lake that i have always wanted to ice fish get away from the crowds let the boys ice a few nice brownies, and this year the ice seems to be thick enough to make that trek and when some body decides to change my plans with out giving me a simple reason as to why just made me a little mad, I diddn't give the officer a hard time and i complied with her request. I know that there is plenty of dumb a's out there that that make there job harder than it needs to be and they ruin it for the rest of us who want to have fun and catch few nice ones. thanks for all the input.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

> Im kind of mixed on the issue of the atv's, We have some, use them nearly every weekend during the summer, But at the same time, I have seen what types of damage has been done because of them. 90% get screwed because of the 10% of irresponsible owners. Why make new laws when the laws they currently have are not being enforced?? Then comes the easy part, Close it down to all ATV's, then the gov wont need to watch every move of every individual making sure they are obeying the laws.


90% is very generous.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

Yea, I agree with you completely, If somebody just said "nope", when they allowed it yesterday, I would probrably want to know why also. Especially if she knew why it was now closed, It would make her job much easier if she gave people the same respect she would like to get. Mabey she was one of those select few that knew she had the authority & wanted to use every bit of it, then again, mabey she didnt know why it was closed.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

> 90% is very generous.


Yea I know, But it does still rub a nerve to be classified as the same as them.

Look at it this way, Your a bow hunter right?? Didnt it piss you off just a little when those kids arrowed those cows last summer?? Kind of made all bow hunters look bad, even though 8 out of 10 would never think of doing that.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Stevo my point exactly. You can outlaw them and make all kinds of new laws but the bad apples in question don't follow the existing laws so why would the follow the new ones? If we could just enforce the exisitng laws and show some common courtesy to our fellow human being we wouldn't be having this discussion. Plumber this thread has more to do with pro-atv snowmobile vrs Anti than any fishing post you placed. Sorry your thread go hijacked...


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> You can outlaw them and make all kinds of new laws but the bad apples in question don't follow the existing laws so why would the follow the new ones? If we could just enforce the exisitng laws and show some common courtesy to our fellow human being we wouldn't be having this discussion


Agreed but it makes it real easy to find the people breaking the laws if no you is allowed to do it. If the trails are closed and they are there then are brakeing the law.


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## STEVO (Sep 13, 2007)

It would make it much easier to enforce. Take for instance the Red Cloud Loop area up by the Gorge, We used to ride that area all the time , until they closed it down because it was getting torn up bad. They could never catch the guys that were tearing up the roads & hill sides(or making new roads) because we all know nobody would do that while somebody is watching :shock: , Anyways,, We went back a few years ago for a elk hunt. the road had been closed for a few years, every half mile there were "no atv" signs. You wouldnt believe all the ATV's on the road. The forest service drove that road all day long handing out tickets. Some guys were stopped more than once(because I saw them over the week stopped several times), each one got a ticket. There was no more second guessing "Those arent my tracks". You were on a ATV, you got busted. Until people learn to resect the land and the laws we have, we are going to continously lose opportunity.

To tell you the truth, I think the state should require a special licence to be able to ride a ATV, Make them take a ethics and law class every 5 years to be able to keep that licence current. Get some people in there to educate these idiots of what is happening, & if they dont stop, what will happen with their "rights to ride". I think enough laws change regarding them within a 5 year period. The state can require the ATV licence to be able to purchase a new ATV as well.

Plumber, sorry this thread got off topic. Im glad you had a better day at the berry. We were up there on Sat & did pretty well also


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## great googly moogly (Jan 26, 2008)

ALL ATV'S SHOULD BE FOR PRIVATE PROPERTY, PERIOD


and maybe out in the middle of the desert dunes, where nobodys trying to enjoy the outdoors


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

J-Bass is back, YEAH!! -*|*-


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

STEVO said:


> > 90% is very generous.
> 
> 
> Yea I know, But it does still rub a nerve to be classified as the same as them.
> ...


Yes, it upset me. But the difference is that it doesn't happen over and over and over and over..........

Recreational ATVing is so impersonal. It FORCES it's way into the space of the rest of the people sharing the outdoors.

I would liken it to smoking in a movie theater.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Which post is more unedumacated?*

I am having a hard time with which post is more edumacated than the other:

While this one states that if you do not agree with me F.U.; tolerance is a one way street only for you to have not for me!! Considering the blatant generalization of "ALL ATV'S" and since it is in caps; I will give it an 8.3 score:


great googly moogly said:


> ALL ATV'S SHOULD BE FOR PRIVATE PROPERTY, PERIOD and maybe out in the middle of the desert dunes, where nobody's trying to enjoy the outdoors


And then there is this one that is obviously just an attempt to taunt and since he only has 4 posts, maybe just a regular on the forum who made up another name to harrass the "treehuggers" IMHO. I don't read as much into it as others, no where does he try and limit your rights and freedoms as the above post does, nor are caps used; simply stating a fact and his brief conclusion as to how much he cares about those opposing the facts, therefore I will give it a mere 7.1


EARTH RAPER said:


> There are 100,000+ registered ATV's in Utah. You treehuggers better learn to live with it.


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## great googly moogly (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: Which post is more unedumacated?*



Huge29 said:


> I will give it an 8.3 score:


thanks


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Taunting is what some do for fun while others are trying to have a conversation on a serious issue. I will add great googly moogly to my ignore list because I feel dumber just for having read his posts.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> Taunting is what some do for fun while others are trying to have a conversation on a serious issue. I will add great googly moogly to my ignore list because I feel dumber just for having read his posts.


I'm sure he's going to fall in a deep state of depression.

I didn't see his post as taunting, just contrary to your position. Not everyone loves mud covered hillbillies driving 30 miles and hour, making noise all over the mountain.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> orvis1 said:
> 
> 
> > Taunting is what some do for fun while others are trying to have a conversation on a serious issue. I will add great googly moogly to my ignore list because I feel dumber just for having read his posts.
> ...


Would I expect any other comment from a treehugnhuntr... Just like people don't like innocent animals being gunned by drunk ******** with 2 tooths in rusted out trucks. I would enjoy my fall fishing more if I wasn't worried about getting shot. I guess that doesn't describe every hunter just like your comment doesn't describe every ATV rider. Don't be jealous you got your arse kicked at fantasy football you can get a shot at me next year. Some guy with 8 posts talking trash to stir the pot sounds a lot like taunting to me.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> > orvis1 said:
> ...


I was unaware of the forum statute that said you have to have a certain number of posts in order to speak your mind. My apologies.

I don't care for the type of person you speak of either, but they are few and far between. Irritating, irresponsible ATVer's are definitely more prevalent IMO. Your analogy is a little off. It would be like fishing your favorite river and having people fishing next to you with a giant stereo listening to the most irritating music you can think of.

If you are worried about getting shot while fishing your favorite river, Were I you I would be more concerned with schizophrenic paranoia, instead of legal rights of earth rapers.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

That was taunting, get it straight. :mrgreen:


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> That was taunting, get it straight. :mrgreen:


I think I would rate that a 8 but the soviet judge rates it a 9.5  . We will just agree to disagree on this one I am sure you are a responsible, courteous, law abiding hunter. In both of our beloved sports there are a-holes that give it a bad name. I got and idea ride a 2 man quad I will drive and from the back of the atv you can pick off the a-hole hunters and atv riders that give our sport a bad name. That way we can clean up our sports and have some fun at the same time.

Totally kidding....


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

orvis1 said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> > That was taunting, get it straight. :mrgreen:
> ...


You're both wrong; think about it, the common them of all aholes is the mullet, don't even bother asking questions, that is the underlying issue in common! Focus on them; just be aware of the follow up punch of the tail coming around the back at you after that first big punch; it will get you; kind of like insult to injury. :lol:


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Mainly rifle hunters.


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Double post


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I hunt with a bow and am currently growing a mullet. Easy on the generalizations there fellas.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I hunt with a bow and am currently growing a mullet. Easy on the generalizations there fellas.


Therein lies the problem; what you have is a fro; very distinct from the mullet. I see your avatar; let's see your progress by posting some pics, are you this long yet aka "The Kingmullet" http://www.kniese.id.au/images/jokes/KingMullet.jpg


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## smackaquacker (Jan 3, 2008)

> 2 tooths


What does 2 tooths look like? I have heard of 2 teeth but you will have to explain this one.


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## 357bob (Sep 30, 2007)

Perhaps you could have done a little research before you went _(O)_ 
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code ... 51-411.htm

R651-411-1. Definitions.

(1) "OHV" means "off-highway vehicle" and includes the following vehicle types:

(a) Four-wheel drive automobiles or trucks;

(b) All-terrain vehicles (ATVs) designed to carry one or two passengers; and

(c) Snowmobiles.
R651-411-2. OHV Use-Restrictions.

(1) OHVs are to be used only in designated areas.

(2) Designated ice areas for OHV use are only those ice areas that are accessed via the board ramps to public ice fishing areas. These areas are at Bear Lake, East Canyon, Escalante, Hyrum, Jordanelle, Millsite, Otter Creek, Palisade, Piute, Red Fleet, Rockport, Scofield, Starvation, Steinaker and Yuba state parks.

(3) Responsibility for any accidents or problems while using OHVs in state parks rests with the user.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

YEAH FOR BOB!!

*-band-* -*|*- -*|*- *(())* *OOO* -()/- -()/- *()* |-O-|


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