# The big picture



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Here are some interesting things to think about

Elk management hunts don’t work because Utards don’t know what a management bull looks like. :| But mule deer management hunts will work “huh” 

State wide archery deer hunts suck and create over crowding :| but state wide elk hunts don’t “huh”

Spike deer suck says nearly every hunter in Utah :| but spike elk hunts are awesome “huh”

If rifle hunters are restricted to I.E Le type units, Wasatch front, then buck deer and bull elk thrive,  and if rifle hunters have a free for all like the general season deer then quality suffers.  

If rifle hunters are let loose in masses then everything dies.  If archery hunters are let loose in masses then they screw each other up and things live to a rip old age. “Wasatch Front”  


I just don’t understand the logic. I feel like I am listing to someone talk out of both sides of their mouth and it is confusing me.


Here is one thing I do know “history repeats itself” *()* and we can learn from our mistakes

1.	So if state wide archery for deer creates over crowding then we also need to fix state wide elk before it becomes a problem
2.	If people in Utah don’t want to kill spike deer they also don’t want to kill spike elk.
3.	If people kill bulls that are broken on management hunts then they will kill bucks that are broken also. Especially if they allow them to hunt them in the dates that are being proposed.



Lets not play this circle jerk anymore lets get a system together that allows sound management. O*-- 

I say some where in the middle of all this bickering between rifle and archery there is a solution. *OOO* 
Manage game with rifles and manage hunter’s opportunity with archery. 

Create Micro management areas in Utah.  If there is a deer/elk area that sucks cut rifle tags and increase archery tags. Give more incentive to pick up a bow, <<--O/ Ie rut hunts, longer season, and yearly tags. Switch people in a positive way to a lesser effective weapon.  Then when an area increases in deer numbers slowly increase rifle tags. -8/- 

make a couple of units where people can have 3 point or better for deer and a unit for 6 point or better for elk. could be the same units. -*|*- -*|*- -*|*- 

make everyone draw a tag even archers this way we can control what gets killed and where it gets killed. -Ov- 



Quality and quantity best of both worlds. The only problem is????? -Ov- -Ov- -Ov-


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I love these stupid characters 
please dont think I am useing them to bash anyone I just think they are funny
-BaHa!- :rotfl:


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Dude that was one of the best post's I have ever read. Well worth the read and could not have said it any better. Amen to that.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

I have a question, do you archery hunters really want to increase your tags by thousands and push unexperienced archers into the sport?

Have you thought about how this could effect archery hunting as you know it?

Rifle hunters seem to be able to squeeze into an area together easier than multiple archers who are more dependant on close shots, animals taking their natural paths, your favorite tree stand or water hole.

Be carful what you wish for, you just might get it.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

10000ft. said:


> "I have a question, do you archery hunters really want to increase your tags by thousands and push unexperienced archers into the sport?"


yes!
This is a lame argument and I know where it is going
There is no difference in unexperienced rifle hunters as there is unexperienced archers



10000ft. said:


> Have you thought about how this could effect archery hunting as you know it?"


YES,



10000ft. said:


> "Rifle hunters seem to be able to squeeze into an area together easier than multiple archers who are more dependant on close shots, animals taking their natural paths, your favorite tree stand or water hole."


this is the reason I can say hunter opertunity, it will screw up some peoples hunts, just like it is screwing up some rifle hunters hunts right now. the only difference is there will be better quality of deer/elk. and people will still have a chance at game



10000ft. said:


> "Be carful what you wish for, you just might get it."


it is quite obvious that you have never hunted the front. It is as packed as any rifle unit in this state on weekends. It holds huge deer. you have a 4 month long season and you dont have to hunt weekends so you can find deer durring the week and hunt without seing anyone else. it could be this good with my proposal.
*OOO*


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

In my proposal I have never said I want to make any unit just like the Wasatch front because it is archery only.

I simply want to compromise some where in-between a "Wasatch type unit which can produce bucks over 200 inchs, with unlimited opportunity" AND a general unit where you could still have lots of tags for rifle hunters"

The quality would be somewhere in the middle containing 2 and 3 year old deer. Better then what we have now and not as good as a LE unit.

Just so you know deer in the two year old class are typically 4 points and 3 points in the 15-22" range.

exampleS of a two year old deer









and










Three year old deer can look like this









and this










some will ultimatly reach 4 years and above like this










These are just a few deer I have taken, there are more. You wont ever here me complain that deer hunting sucks in Utah where I hunt. These deer were are all taken in Utah on the Wasatch Front, with an over the counter tag, hunt every year, DIY, Non guided, general archery deer.

you are missing the BIG PICTURE if you dont open up your mind to what archery managment can do for hunting in Utah. *OOO*

I would like to see each and every hunter in Utah have the same success as I have had.-*|*- -*|*- -*|*-


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## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Scot, Scot, Scott....I hear you loud and clear, you are preaching to the choir. Quit flashing shots of yourself and all the deer I missed.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I think they should make many units Archery and ML only and increase the deer tags by 20 dollars each to make up for the lost revenue of the rifle tag. These areas would be awesome of seeing trophy bucks because of less pressure and lower success rates.

I think its awesome that archery hunters can hunt places almost equal to the Henry mtns. The Wasatch Front has a 39/100 buck to doe ratio. Thats a hunter's paradise for finding monster muleys. Nice pictures SWbuckmaster. I need to get into archery hunting.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> ...These are just a few deer I have taken, there are more. You wont ever here me complain that deer hunting sucks in Utah where I hunt. These deer were are all taken in Utah on the Wasatch Front, with an over the counter tag, hunt every year, DIY, Non guided, general archery deer.
> 
> you are missing the BIG PICTURE if you dont open up your mind to what archery managment can do for hunting in Utah.


I couldn't have said it better because I feel the exact same way. In fact you won't hear me complain about hunting deer in Utah, I had probably the most incredible hunt this year, while others (in my same party) complained. The deer are there (and some dandies too), they just aren't jumping on the back of your four wheelers. I would like to see management steer a little more in favor of the archery hunter, even charge a little more if needed.

BTW, great pics.


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## inbowrange (Sep 11, 2007)

SWBUCKMASTER thats like living my wet dream over and over again. i'd back that idea 100%.


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## Firstarrow (Sep 28, 2007)

10000ft. said:


> I have a question, do you archery hunters really want to increase your tags by thousands and push unexperienced archers into the sport?
> 
> Have you thought about how this could effect archery hunting as you know it?
> 
> ...


There was a time when *many more than double the bowhunters we have now *took to the hills in pursuite of deer. Back before people had to pick a weapon, and the cap was put on bowhunters.

The ISSUE I see with adding more bowhunters in the field doesn't deal necessarily with being newbies but the lack of respect between hunters (all people really) these days.

GREAT POST SCOTT


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## bird buster (May 25, 2008)

EVERYBODY calm down. If OBAMA gets his way, hunting will be a rich man's sport. Then it won't matter what rules the DWR comes up with.


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