# WOW Utah Youth General Bull Tag ODDS



## Roadlesshunter (Mar 2, 2012)

Has anyone looked at the odds for the special general bull elk tags for youth. I should have before putting in my nephew. That was flushing $10 dollars down the toilet. After looking at the odds, I have no plans to apply any kid again.

Early Hunt 3498 270 res tags 4589 applicants that's 1 in 17 
Late Hunt 3499 18 res tags 1647 applicants that's 1 in 91


These hunts are harder to draw then some LE Elk Units.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

I kind of wish the DWR would do a 5% or 10% of LE Tags in 10 or 12 units will go to the youth. 

You really can't ever control who willapply. 

I would look at NR options outside of Utah for youth. 

Idaho has a good program for youth and I've heard Wyoming does too.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I kind of wish the DWR would do a 5% or 10% of LE Tags in 10 or 12 units will go to the youth.
> 
> You really can't ever control who willapply.
> 
> ...


Utah does plenty for youth, just because you get someone to hunt young doesn't mean you've retained them. With 20+ years waiting on a lot of hunts, retention isn't gonna be very good.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Maybe we need to recruit LESS hunters???-------SS


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> I kind of wish the DWR would do a 5% or 10% of LE Tags in 10 or 12 units will go to the youth.
> 
> You really can't ever control who willapply.
> 
> ...


Kids don't need anymore LE tags. They set aside plenty of GS tags for them. If they like hunting enough to stick with it then great put in for LE. But the idea of takinh 5-10% is crazy.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

But someone has to draw - might as well be your nephew, right?


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^^^^^ this!!!. 
Look at some of the LE odds for hell sakes. 1/several thousand on some tags. 1/17 isn't bad at all. One of my friends on this forum had his son all over the mountains last fall with the tag and thoroughly enjoyed. I'll take my/his chances for $10;-)


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I personally think that the division is bending over backwards for the youth right now and that the majority of the youth that are getting the tags now don't stay with it once they start using their own money to purchase tags or put into the draws. As long as daddy keeps putting the money up they hunt but that is it. 

I have seen it with a lot of my nephews. Once they have to pay they see other thing to purchase besides rifles, ammo, and a tag to "just go hunting" out in the cold. Isn't the mentor program there for their parents, or grand parents to draw the tags and let them hunt? That right there increased point creep since no one needs to drop out of the tag pool just because they are too old to hunt, they have their kids or grand kids to hunt that bison, moose, goat, or whatever for them.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

I may be missing the mark here but it seems like if you take a kid or newer person to the sport and give him/her great opportunities at trophies right off the bat you create problems. you could have someone that will likely not hunt again because they've had one handed to them. they might be hugely discouraged their next real outings or just be over it because they'll have to wait a loooooong time to have a similar opportunity and they've already bagged their lifetime trophy.

I know this will not be the case all of the time but there are scenarios that play out like this year after year. give a kid good opportunity at seeing game and they'll have fun. if they harvest anything at all, it'll be a great experience for them.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

That's why when my daughter hunted deer the first time, we shot the first legal buck we saw, and in NM, it has to be at least one forked antler. She shot a small 2x3 (glorified 2 pt.). Her first cow elk hunt was tough and she did not get one. She has not been able to deer hunt since and has taken two cow elk since her first elk hunt. She has not been able to draw a bull tag yet, but when she does, I only put her in for good hunts, so it will be a good hunt if she does draw.

She got hooked by being able to go and get an animal, even if it was a smaller one. Had she not been able to have gotten one, I can't say if she would still be interested or not. Things have changed since I was a kid and hunting my first time. My dad was able to hunt private land exclusively with his brothers, dad, and some cousins. He didn't have to work hard to get one like you would on public land. As a youth, I did not shoot very many animals. I can count on one hand how many deer (bucks) I have shot over my lifetime. Elk are a different story, but that has been in my adult years. I have had to change hunting tactics with my daughter from those of what I did growing up, but that is not to say I did not gain a wealth of knowledge from my dad. Kids today face a different set of criteria sometimes, and sometimes it is for the worse (go big or go home).

I agree APD, sometimes when the bar is raised too high, problems can be created down the road. I hope my kids will be just as excited to shoot a cow elk as a 330" bull as I still am to this day.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

My sons first big game kill was a doe mule deer last year. He had shots at a couple bucks but the stars hadn't aligned yet. He let 40+ does walk opening morning that were 100 yards from the car or less. I have never seen him so pumped up in his life as when we hiked over a mile to the top of the mountain and he shot her! Now all he talks about is killing a buck this season(doesn't give a rats ass how big it is either, a spike will make him do back flips) and having a chance at a general bull or cow elk. He understands the wait for a "good one" and is happy to wait his turn. He worked his but off for that doe and appreciates it a lot more than shooting one from the car or dirt road and being home by lunch time. He knows I don't hunt very hard for deer any more. I don't have to. 
He has also been to where I usually hunt general rifle elk and still cusses the place but he can't wait to go back because he knows if he puts in the time and energy it pays off in the end. 
I also am almost guranteed a very good LE tag this year for elk. We have discussed letting him pull the trigger and he is adamant that he will not shoot my bull for me. He wants me to do it because I have waited so long. He said he can wait for his chance. No entitlement problems or false impressions of real life hunting for him.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I'll chime in again. I'd keep putting in for the tag, those odds are better than 90% of LE tags, even general tags are becoming impossible with no points. Taking LE tags out of the draw and allocating them to youth will set too high of standards for success an backlog draw odds and time even further.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

If 1 in 17 is bad i would love to know what you think good is


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## Roadlesshunter (Mar 2, 2012)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> If 1 in 17 is bad i would love to know what you think good is


I put him in for the late hunt, so try 1 in 91 for odds. 1 in 91 is not good and half probably go to highest points. That would make the tag a 1 in 182 for those out side the max points. He doesn't have max points get my drift.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

One point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that this is not exactly like shooting fish in a barrel. I have heard of numerous tags going unfilled, which is to be expected, but it is not nearly as good as one may expect being a hunt that should be during the rut with rifles while nearly no one else is out hunting. I will put my son in for it next year, it is a draw gotta pay to play.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

It's a hunt that only YOUTH get to apply for during "ideal" dates on anybull units??? What honestly more would you like the state to do for YOU??? They can still apply in LE hunts, deer tags (with allocated % for youth) Once in A Lifetime opportunity, youth bird hunts, antlerless, the state of Utah bends over backwards for the youth! 

It's parents that act like this that make me want to stop supporting youth hunting programs. Demanding more and more for YOUR kids isn't doing them or anyone else any good...

It's not the states fault your not taking advantage of the 1in17 draw odds. That's like me bitching that I want to hunt elk, and putting in for the San Juan, complaining of draw odds, when I could apply for the north cache...makes no sense.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

oh Brotha,,,,

No Points involved, The youth any bull is a RANDOM draw........

Plus, Tuff , difficult hunt..
Unless you know a any bull area REALLY well, or own ground, I'd look else were..

Spike only and cow hunts, even general deer SMOKE this hunt IMO...


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## Roadlesshunter (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm not crying about the opportunity. I was wondering if people had ever looked at the odds. I put my nephew in, not my kids. As I stated above, he is in for the late hunt 1 in 91 odds. I don't have extra money laying around the house. Employer informed us no overtime this year. That's the money I us to buy tags and pay the hunting expenses. To sum this post up, I love to hunt, but still have to analyze the Affordability of each hunt compared to the chance to draw.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is just a pet peeve of mine but why not let the kids earn the money for their hunts or applications over the year before they or you apply for them? Perhaps they would appreciate the hunt even more when and if they draw the tag. 

I see so many parents or relatives saying how much it cost to put in for the draws which usually includes their kids. I have found that if the kids really want to hunt they will work for the money and spend it on the tags or applications instead of video games or that new CD to listen to. 

I know that when I was a young hunter I had to earn the money for my hunting license instead of asking mom or dad for it.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

What is a "CD"?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> What is a "CD"?


I guess I should of said LP or 4 track tape or how about a 45.

Now I am really showing my age.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

LP and 4 track tape. I once saw those on the History Channel - a program called 'Ancient Discoveries' ;-)


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## gmanhunter (Dec 27, 2007)

I have a friend that has put both his daughters in for this hunt and both girls have drawn it. My brother has put his boy in and still has not drawn. I think the odds are better for this hunt then they are for LE bull tags. The kids hunt at the beginning of the rut. Both of my buddies kids have had elk bugle back at them on this hunt. Both girls got nice little 5 points, and had a blast hunting. I think there is enough for the kids. I would put any kid in for this tag. They only have a limited amount of time to do so before they are an adult.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> It is just a pet peeve of mine but why not let the kids earn the money for their hunts or applications over the year before they or you apply for them? Perhaps they would appreciate the hunt even more when and if they draw the tag.
> 
> I see so many parents or relatives saying how much it cost to put in for the draws which usually includes their kids. I have found that if the kids really want to hunt they will work for the money and spend it on the tags or applications instead of video games or that new CD to listen to.
> 
> I know that when I was a young hunter I had to earn the money for my hunting license instead of asking mom or dad for it.


im right there with you. that what I told my girlfriend boy this year. you want to hunt you pay for your tag and app fee and you will help with the food, gas and you will pay the processing fee if you get one. he said ok and i put him in. Now if we dont go that his lost money not mine.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

*Youth Elk*

I like the thought of the youth elk hunt. I put my 12-year old son in for that this year. I realize that the hunt isn't a guarantee, but the chance to hunt with my son with little pressure on the mountain and camping in mid September sounds pretty awesome to me.

Yeah the odds aren't in our favor, but still worth the $10 I probably would've spent at Wendys or something.


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