# Henry mountain buffalo



## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

Any One been down on the Henry's within the last couple weeks ? My dad's cow hunt is going on right now and this last weekend we went down and didn't find a thing. Has anybody been seeing any Buffalo down there?where could we start looking for them? We hunted all over the horn coyote benches mud Springs area.


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

PM sent

Good luck and keep us posted


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## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

Went back to Henry's for the buffalo. Hunted triangular Mesa. Stevens Mesa. Air plain springs. Still no buffalo. Looks like it will be tag soup


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Call the fish and game or hire a short flight in a plane before you give up. A OIL tag is too valuable to give up on.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Did you hit the Cave Flats area? Tarantula Mesa? Wildcat?


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## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

We hunted triantula Mesa but cave flat is closed to 4 wheelers.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Do you have access to horses or is your dad strong enough to hike? Cave Flat is typically a great money spot when the findings are tough.

Also, just a reminder to slow down. When I shot my cow in 2012, there were several groups who had driven right past them (one group multiple times even while I was cleaning mine). They will shock you how they can disappear in the tiniest little fold in the land.


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## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

We drove to the gate but it's closed. To hike in my dad would be ok I think but we have no horses so a pack out would have killed us. I think it's like 6 miles in and then we have never been there so I would not know where to go from there.


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## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

I had a tag a few years ago and the same thing happened. People drove right past them not seeing them. I shot mine with no problem at mud springs. This year has been vastly different. I must be the one driving past them.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

ccpay said:


> We drove to the gate but it's closed. To hike in my dad would be ok I think but we have no horses so a pack out would have killed us. I think it's like 6 miles in and then we have never been there so I would not know where to go from there.


Look on here and on KSL there are people with horses who will pack out your game for you....


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Renting out a pilot wouldn't be a bad idea. Shoot...that just tells you where they are. You still have to make it happen. Give it everything you can throw at it!


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## droptine69 (Mar 28, 2014)

Saw a bunch down near mud springs and glassing off of mount pennel tower directly to the west on the rifle deer hunt.

Best of Luck!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

MWScott72 said:


> Renting out a pilot wouldn't be a bad idea. Shoot...that just tells you where they are. You still have to make it happen. Give it everything you can throw at it!


Wouldn't this be against the law? 
From the guidebook:
"In addition, you may not use any type of
aircraft, from 48 hours before any big game
hunt begins through 48 hours after any big
game hunting season ends, to perform any of
the following activities:

•Locate, or attempt to observe or locate,
any protected wildlife
Flying slowly at low altitudes, or hovering,
circling or repeatedly flying over an area where
protected wildlife is likely to be found, may
be used as evidence that you've violated the
restrictions above."


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

wyoming2utah said:


> Wouldn't this be against the law?
> From the guidebook:
> "In addition, you may not use any type of
> aircraft, from 48 hours before any big game
> ...


Well, technically it isn't a restricted airspace. So if you just happened to fly by, site seeing, and spot some buffalo......

I am not saying break the rules. I am saying that one would be extremely hard to enforce.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

hard to enforce? Why?



FWIW -- we have rules and policies here at work that would be very difficult to "enforce" (ie: control whether a user can or cannot do it). However, we do have paper documents that say "user will not do this...". If the user doesn't follow those rules, they get fired.

Why are hunters any different?

The rule says "don't do it". Why should we determine whether or not we do "it" by how difficult it would be to enforce "it"?


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

RandomElk16 said:


> Well, technically it isn't a restricted airspace. So if you just happened to fly by, site seeing, and spot some buffalo......
> 
> I am not saying break the rules. I am saying that one would be extremely hard to enforce.


So what happens if you're on a commercial flight and you're looking out the window and see deer, elk, ducks etc while you're landing or taking off and decide...hey a good place to hunt. I mean realistically that can happen especially with duck hunting. Are you automatically in violation of the law. So whenever I travel for work and fly over the marshes does that mean I cannot now go duck hunting? Not trying to cause a stink but the law is the law and the letter of the law doesn't leave any room for deviation. What if you're on s sightseeing trip and happen to see deer or elk in an area where you may want to hunt and it's during hunting season....see what I am talking about?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

LostLouisianian said:


> So what happens if you're on a commercial flight and you're looking out the window and see deer, elk, ducks etc while you're landing or taking off and decide...hey a good place to hunt. I mean realistically that can happen especially with duck hunting.


Except for the regulation cited talks about big game hunts, not duck hunting.



LostLouisianian said:


> What if you're on s sightseeing trip and happen to see deer or elk in an area where you may want to hunt and it's during hunting season....see what I am talking about?


So, you have a deer or elk tag, and the season for that tag is open. Now you want me to believe that instead of out hunting for that animal, you are out just doing a little sightseeing tour trip, which coincidentally just happens to be on the unit that you have a tag and the season is going?

And you expect me to believe this? We can find a ridiculous scenario that complicates every law on the books if we try hard enough. Let's be reasonable here, people.

This would be hard to enforce. The amount of time to catch one person would be significant, and law enforcement would have to determine if it is worth the effort. It would also be hard to enforce me not littering on my backpacking trip into the Wind Rivers next time I go. Does that mean I should just drop wrappers everywhere, since it's not likely at all that I will be caught? I guess we have to decide for ourselves if we are going to follow the law. Hiring a plane and flying over the Henrys right now to locate bison, although a fantastic idea, would be illegal. And I'm glad it is. Can you imagine if this was allowed?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Is it legal if somebody else were to go up in the plane?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I asked about this when we hunted in Alaska and commercial air travel doesn't count. The float trip in though DID count, couldn't hunt until the next day there. Thats Alaska rules though... commercial travel probably doesn't count here either.


-DallanC


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Is it legal if somebody else were to go up in the plane?


That was a thought I started to bring up. What if you hired the plane and had a hunting buddy go up for you that did not have a permit for that area....interesting thought because it clearly does not violate the letter of the law.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

So what if you talk to the DOW wildlife biologist for the area and ask him where you might find them, and he was just up in the air checking out the herd. Can he tell you where they were when he saw them or does he say that he can't because it is against the rules? 

The reason that I put it that way is that last year when I listened to the WB meeting the members asked for the DOW biologist to help the hunters out as much as they could and tell them where the bison were located at since the hunters were having a hard time finding them. 

On my first post I thought that I had read that Utah's in flight laws were similar to what is enforced in Alaska and hadn't read where it said that you couldn't fly the area to locate the animals 48 hrs prior to the beginning of the season for your hunt. 

But just the same if I had a late season tag for them I would fly the area before the hunt to find out where they were hanging out in since they become ghost when the hunt finally comes along.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

When I had Bison tag soup 2 years ago it was just an absolutely brutal hunt. Hardest hunt I have had. There was a group that was out in the Blue Hill area. Way, way out there. We hiked towards them for 7 hours up and down the slick mud ravines just hoping to get close enough for a shot. Never did. If we had not turned back when the sun was dropping it is quite possible one of us might have froze solid that night and we were loaded up with about every survival piece one could hope for. Sometimes the elements are just tougher.

The Cave Flats area is huge. Pack animals are a must. I would bet money some are there if a person spends the time to seek them out. We had pack animals but could not get them anywhere close enough with a trailer to make them useful without literally riding them for a full day to get back there. Then we would have to hunt. The last two days we spent on horseback with highs around 7 degrees on Swap Mesa. Saw a bunch of sign but never found the bison.

I have relived the hunt over and over and over. To this day we have not found anything that we would have done different. By the time the hunt was over I had all I could take and gave everything that I had. I carry that tag in my pocket with my combo license. While it still haunts me it is a reminder to me of how hard a guy can hunt, come up empty and still call it a success. If the conditions are that bad you just do the best you can do with the time you have to do it and thank God there is food at camp and back home.


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## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

Well said Mr. Muleskinner


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## ccpay (Jul 29, 2008)

We're giving it one more weekend to try to get a buffalo anyone have any advice on where the buffalo Have been seen recently?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

PBH said:


> hard to enforce? Why?
> 
> FWIW -- we have rules and policies here at work that would be very difficult to "enforce" (ie: control whether a user can or cannot do it). However, we do have paper documents that say "user will not do this...". If the user doesn't follow those rules, they get fired.
> 
> ...


Pretty positive I never said to do it.

I did say it is hard to enforce. If a non hunter is allowed to fly over the area, how are you going to prove the person is a hunter, find them landing, and ticket them?

I am a dang ethical hunter, don't question that. Just saying the no fly is probably the hardest to enforce rule.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

Unfortunately, I don't have a clue where the bison are. My only advice is this: be grateful for your chance at this adventure, and make sure when all is said and done you're satisfied with your effort. I agree with Mr. Muleskinner in the fact that I've been satisfied with several hunts that ended in tag soup. I've only been unsatisfied when I haven't given a hunt a proper effort.

I think we would also appreciate an update/story when you're done, if you can spare the time. I really like it when people share stories of hunts I'll probably never get to experience. 

I'll be cheering for you guys while I'm working this weekend. Give it hell, and get yourselves a good one.


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## Shunter (Jul 23, 2014)

ccpay said:


> We're giving it one more weekend to try to get a buffalo anyone have any advice on where the buffalo Have been seen recently?


It's hard even if you know where they've been recently. On my hunt last year we tracked some for 3 miles after they had been shot at by some other hunters. Then ended up glassing what we assumed to be the same herd a total of 8 miles away from where they were shot at. I sent you a PM with some specifics.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Very hard to pull a buffalo hunt off in a 'weekend'........

The travel time alone is a couple days, Hopefully a little luck will fall your way.


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

In reading this topic, all the things said about the flying over / a friend flying for you. All I have to say, isn't hunting all about *ETHICS*? Yes anyone can fly in a plane, anyone can poach, anyone can trespass, anyone can take a 150 yd shot with a bow, anyone can take a 1500 yd shot with a rifle. Basically what hunting comes down to is *ETHICS*!!!


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Ccpay, I don't know you or your hunting methods so don't take this the wrong way. Something that has been eluded to, but I don't think it's been directly said is that the Henry Mountains buffalo hunt is no cake walk. Some go into that hunt thinking they'll just be able to ride the roads and find a buffalo to shoot. If you ride the roads down there long enough you probably will, but your hunt may not have that many days in it. And sometimes when the buffalo spot a vehicle at 600 yards they are on the run. The buffalo are very likely to be in several of any of the given suggestions on any given day, they may be in a herd of 60 or a herd of 3 and it's not very often that you can drive your truck up to the common parking pull off and see them sitting within shooting range of the truck.

When someone suggests Mud springs or any other place what they are really saying is that you should check the mud springs area. They may be in any of the surrounding canyons and it will take time to spot those areas and determine if they are there or not.

All of this is the reason that when most hunters head to the Henry's they take a team of as many friends, family and everyone they can get. They split up and they do their best to cover that massive expanse of area and meet back at camp at night to report or communicate via radios.

As Goofy said, it's very hard to just hit an area on the Henry's on a weekend and come out successful unless you are just plain lucky.

AND, you may already be doing all of this and it's just not falling your way. That's a real bummer if that is what's happening. 

When I had my tag one of our spotting groups found a small herd the afternoon before the hunt started up near the radio tower on McClellan. The snow was to deep to get atv's anywhere near them so the next morning we hiked our butts off to get to them. When we got in range they had laid down and we sat and watched and videoed them for about an hour. I finally picked one out and took a shot. Because they were laying down I hit her higher than I should have, my bad. Within 2 seconds they were in a tight ball moving like lightning. There was no chance at all for a follow up shot. There was snow up high but by the time they crossed the road and headed for Steven's mesa there was no snow. It was a very long (miles) and tedious tracking job but we finally caught up to them right before dark and I was able to finish her off. I would have thought that tracking a herd of buffalo through semi sandy soils would have been fairly easy but it was not at all.

Good luck, I hope you are able to find success.


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## Natural Born Killer (Oct 29, 2015)

If this helps,
We have killed three early season Buffs around Apple Brush Flats, and a late season Buff, by the Water Mellon patch at Notom on the way in.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> I did say it is hard to enforce. If a non hunter is allowed to fly over the area, how are you going to prove the person is a hunter, find them landing, and ticket them?


I don't understand why this would be hard to enforce. This is how it would go over in my head.

A. person hires pilot to fly area
B. pilot flies it.
C. Hunters in area with hunt going on notice airplane flying area, take pictures which include tail numbers. They then call DWR and report suspicious plane flying over herds of buffalo during hunt.
D. DWR finds tail numbers, and locates pilot.
E. Pilot turns info of person who hired pilot over to DWR.
F. DWR finds that person who hired pilot wanting to know where buffalo are located and sees that the person has a buffalo tag.
G. Citation issued.

Obviously, I've oversimplified this. But I don't see why this would be very hard to enforce.

We see threads on this forum all the time about helocopters and planes flying over herds of elk. Don't you think those people out hunting buffalo would have the same gripe and call it in??

The other question is: would a pilot take the risk of flying that area trying to locate buffalo for someone during a hunt? Probably not.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

First of all - that is what makes the Henry Mountain hunt the least canned of any bison hunt in the country. If you want a bison shoot, put in for Antelope Island. If you want to hunt the most wild bison in the United States, then do the Henry Mountain hunt. Best of luck to you for sure. 

On the issue of the fly over, it was pointed out that the Henry Mountains have no kind of air space restrictions - meaning, it isn't an MOA, it isn't closed, it doesn't have minimum elevation rules, maximum elevation rules, or any other kind of air space restrictions placed by the FAA. The Henry Mountain area is Class G airspace (until you get above 18,000 ft but you aren't doing that in a spotter plane). Which means, uncontrolled by any ATC, Which means, you can fly anywhere you want to fly. DWR has no regulatory authority over any kind of air traffic. Unless you are using your aircraft to harass the wildlife, which DWR can enforce, then there is no legal basis for DWR to say boo one about you flying in an aircraft even 10 minutes before your hunt. Yes, the 48 hour rule is in place, but if someone were to push it on an agency regulatory authority basis, my guess is the DWR would get rolled on it in court.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

GaryFish said:


> Yes, the 48 hour rule is in place, but if someone were to push it on an agency regulatory authority basis, my guess is the DWR would get rolled on it in court.


They are not regulating the flying of the aircraft. As stated, anyone can fly there if they want. They are regulating the use of an aircraft to locate wildlife. Which I think they have the authority to do. I disagree that this regulation would get overturned by the courts.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> They are not regulating the flying of the aircraft. As stated, anyone can fly there if they want. They are regulating the use of an aircraft to locate wildlife. Which I think they have the authority to do. I disagree that this regulation would get overturned by the courts.


I'm just curious how many other states prohibit using aircraft over a hunting zone for 48 hrs prior to season opening till after the season closes for the purpose of spotting wildlife.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

PBH said:


> I don't understand why this would be hard to enforce. This is how it would go over in my head.
> 
> A. person hires pilot to fly area
> B. pilot flies it.
> ...


 F dot 5 , Has proof that hunter hunted within 48 hours after flying over area.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> I'm just curious how many other states prohibit using aircraft over a hunting zone for 48 hrs prior to season opening till after the season closes for the purpose of spotting wildlife.


With all the new drones that everyone and their kids have these days, i would imagine that many states will begin putting some kind of "flight" restrictions in place very soon (if they don't already).


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Wouldn't this be against the law?
> From the guidebook:
> "In addition, you may not use any type of
> aircraft, from 48 hours before any big game
> ...


I think people would be surprised if they knew how much this rule is broken 
in Utah. It's just quietly done by many with access to aircraft.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I think people would be surprised if they knew how much this rule is broken
> in Utah. It's just quietly done by many with access to aircraft.


I agree with goofy elk, the hunter doesn't even need to be in the aircraft, I am sure there are some that guide them to the game by two way radio.

Similar to guides that sit on mountain peaks with spotting scopes and radios. Aircraft are just a little higher and can cover more area quicker.;-)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> Wouldn't this be against the law?
> From the guidebook:
> "In addition, you may not use any type of
> aircraft, from 48 hours before any big game
> ...


I should have read this closer, I thought it was more like Alaska and was before you started hunting not when the hunt started. My mistake on a previous post.

I remember doing this about 20 years ago or so, a group of us used to hunt the Boulders when it was open bull and since no one had anytime to go scouting we all chipped in and hired a guy we knew that had a plane and 3 days before the hunt the pilot and I flew over the boulders looking for elk. It was a fun plane ride and I saw some elk but it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Did you see this article on KSL today?

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=37798442&nid=1288&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick3


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> Did you see this article on KSL today?
> 
> http://www.ksl.com/?sid=37798442&nid=1288&fm=home_page&s_cid=toppick3


I mentioned this years ago and certain people kept giving me **** over it, calling it false and throwing back in my teeth, even after I'd even posted articles on it.

-DallanC


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

DallanC said:


> I mentioned this years ago and certain people kept giving me **** over it, calling it false and throwing back in my teeth, even after I'd even posted articles on it.
> 
> -DallanC


Dallan,

that's because you are a liar :mrgreen: jk


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

DallanC said:


> I mentioned this years ago and certain people kept giving me **** over it, calling it false and throwing back in my teeth, even after I'd even posted articles on it.
> 
> -DallanC


Interesting that they co-mingle with cattle but show no signs of brucelosis....very interesting indeed. :shock:


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Do they cull this herd above and beyond what hunters take each year? 350 animals for a herd that has been there 70 years or so seems low. I would guess the current numbers are what is managed for though, so just curious.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

They have transplanted quite a few recently to the book cliffs.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

All of the animals that were used to establish the herd were tested and confirmed to be brucellosis free before they put them there. And an aggressive testing program continued for a couple of decades. So if the cattle on the range are free, and the bison are free, then it isn't just going to show up unless transported there by something/someone. 

But to your question MWScott - yes - hunting is the only tool used to keep the herd levels in check. As far as I know, it is the only herd in the country managed ONLY with hunting, though as Jonnycake mentioned, some were captured and planted over in the Books. Pretty cool.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

How many permits do they issue for this herd each year. I am just wondering if it would make more sense to cut the number of permits by 10 and transplant 10 per year instead to other areas to get other herds going. Long term it would be a great idea that could end up allowing more permits and bison hunting opportunities in the future. Heck I am all for calling Yellowstone and asking for some of those 1,000 they expect to kill this year. I mean if we transplanted 100 of those 1,000 that would be a viable herd to hunt in just a 3-4 year period.


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## Doc (Sep 11, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Interesting that they co-mingle with cattle but show no signs of brucelosis....very interesting indeed. :shock:


Not surprising, Utah was/is brucellosis free concerning cattle. The problem has been the threat of cattle getting it from the buffs/elk.

That is a problem around Yellowstone.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Heck I am all for calling Yellowstone and asking for some of those 1,000 they expect to kill this year. I mean if we transplanted 100 of those 1,000 that would be a viable herd to hunt in just a 3-4 year period.


The problem is I don't believe that the Yellowstone herd is brucellosis free, so you would have a problem finding a place to transplant them to other than to a area that has no cattle.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> How many permits do they issue for this herd each year. I am just wondering if it would make more sense to cut the number of permits by 10 and transplant 10 per year instead to other areas to get other herds going. Long term it would be a great idea that could end up allowing more permits and bison hunting opportunities in the future. Heck I am all for calling Yellowstone and asking for some of those 1,000 they expect to kill this year. I mean if we transplanted 100 of those 1,000 that would be a viable herd to hunt in just a 3-4 year period.


The issue isn't one of having enough to establish herds in other areas. That could be done quite easily --- on the surface. But on National Forests and BLM lands, the forage is already allocated to either livestock, or other wildlife. And that is a zero sum game. So if you put bison there, then something else will have to give - either a reduction of other grazers -like elk, or a reduction of livestock. Elk aren't an issue in the Henry Mountains, and some conservation organizations with base property have bought up some of the grazing allotments in the Henry Mountains to ensure there is enough food for the bison. Plus, they are a tough place to run cattle anyway, so most of the allotments have been in one form of non-use for a couple of decades now. But the issue of forage allocation is what pushes DWR to keep the herd level near that 350 point - because that is all the forage that is allocated for them. If more grazing allotments could get converted to wildlife (bison), then there could be more bison there.

So in looking at other areas, you'd have to get someone else to dispose of their grazing allotment to allow for that forage to be used by the bison. In the Book Cliffs, some forage has been allocated to bison, but they also go on and off of the reservation, where the tribe controls the forage allocation, and also allows hunting within their tribal privileges, as the transplanted herd there has intermixed with the private bison held by the tribe.

On Antelope Island, the entire Island is held by State Parks, and they control forage allocation. And so they don't have any cattle or sheep at all - just the bison, deer, bighorns, and pronghorn to utilize the forage base. And they control the Island herd through a combination of selling off excess bison following a round-up, and a canned hunt for the older bison that are really too old to sell on the open market. That herd is managed as a livestock herd instead of a wildlife population.

My own thought is that there are some other places where bison could do well. The brucellosis thing is just one piece of the puzzle. The forage allocation thing is a much bigger one.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Never realized that Gary thanks for the heads up and education. Now I understand the bigger picture....as someone who grew up on a cattle farm I have mixed emotions but I still would love to see more bison in the wild. Heck out west it is how many acres to the cow, down south it's how many cows to the acre...


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> I think people would be surprised if they knew how much this rule is broken
> in Utah. It's just quietly done by many with access to aircraft.


Hey, Goofy, I just sent you a pm, but it says your mailbox is full and you can't read it until you clear some room!


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

I know this thread is now a different animal, but does anyone know if ccpay ever got his dad on a buff?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Hey, Goofy, I just sent you a pm, but it says your mailbox is full and you can't read it until you clear some room!


Cleared out the mailbox.....there is room now. thanks


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Did the poster ever get his bison?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

LostLouisianian said:


> Did the poster ever get his bison?


Perhaps he is still packing it out.


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