# Utah Nonresident Permit Prices



## pheasantphool (Nov 30, 2007)

I was looking at the price to hunt big game in the surrounding states and came up with this interesting info

Utah Nonresident Deer $263
Utah Nonresident Elk $388
Utah Nonresident Premium Limited Entry $563

Idaho Nonresident Deer $454
Idaho Nonresident Elk $566

Wyoming Nonresident Deer $329
Wyoming Nonresident Elk $549

Colorado-about the same as Wyoming but I forgot to write it down

It seems like Utah nonresident permits could go up in price about $60-$70 and still be in line with other states. The Utah premium limited entry permits could go up substantially and still be a deal as you would be hunting some of the best mule deer permits in the country(Paunzy &Henry). I feel that Utah should raise their nonresident permit prices instead of asking Utah resident hunters to foot more of the bill. This could be especially true as the state legislature will probably cut funding to the DWR this year because of the economy and then the DWR will raise license fees of Utah residents to make up the difference. Opinions?


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Yes, hammer the NR hunters and leave us residents alone! It's gonna be hard to justify the prices in the near future for me. I say double NR fees and back off everything else. We cannot get a good bull tag but once in about 13 or 14 years so why should we have to compete with an out-of-stater? My honest opinion on this deal.....


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Yes, hammer the NR hunters and leave us residents alone! It's gonna be hard to justify the prices in the near future for me. I say double NR fees and back off everything else. We cannot get a good bull tag but once in about 13 or 14 years so why should we have to compete with an out-of-stater? My honest opinion on this deal.....


No they should double *ALL* prices, and reduce total tag #'s by at least 20%.

-DallanC


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

I like Dallan's idea best.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

> I like Dallan's idea best.


+1

Deer hunting in Utah is THE BOTTOM of the barrel on most NR's list. Most magazines rate Utah Deer Hunting with states like Nebraska and South Dakota :lol:

Besides the two limited entry units you mention (keep in mind draw odds) what other Deer Unit in Utah can even contend apples to apples (draw odds, quality, huntable land, etc. etc.)with a "good" unit in say Colorado, Wyo, Nev, Arizona???

IMO Utah would be hard pressed to ask what ANY surrounding state does for NR Deer Prices. Who wants to pay $400 to shoot a two-point and contend with a million people on a general season hunt. Besides a select few Limited Entry Units and CWMU's non-resident deer hunting in Utah is NOT attracting the masses. To tell you the truth I can honestly say I have never met a non-resident general season deer hunting in Utah.

Raise NR Deer LE, CWMU if you would like, but raise the NR General Season and I would be suprised if you sell 50% of the tags you sell now.

NR Elk, double the price


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

I'm with Dallan on this as well. It may ruin many family traditions but it may save and even improve (that wouldn't be too hard)the hunting that is left in our state.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

bugchuker said:


> I'm with Dallan on this as well. It may ruin many family traditions but it may save and even improve (that wouldn't be too hard)the hunting that is left in our state.


What happens when those 20% decide to never hunt again? Where is that money going to come from? What good would lowering the amount of tags do anyway? You are still going to have enough people on the mountain to hit the 34% success rate anyway.
How about 3 day season on rotation. Early hunt, middle hunt, late hunt. You get 3 days and your done. Pack up camp and leave. let the next 3-dayers have your spot, and again. You get everybody on the mountain in 9 days, the deer will be so spooked the late guys won't even see a deer and all your deer numbers will skyrocket. How's that Jeffrey? *OOO*


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> What happens when those 20% decide to never hunt again? Where is that money going to come from?


We have around 250,000 hunters applying for 90,000 tags currently. You loose 20% and you still have 2x as many hunters as tags.

-DallanC


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

DallanC said:


> lunkerhunter2 said:
> 
> 
> > What happens when those 20% decide to never hunt again? Where is that money going to come from?
> ...


You lost me here Dallan. :?:


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> lunkerhunter2 said:
> 
> 
> > What happens when those 20% decide to never hunt again? Where is that money going to come from?
> ...


To me family tradition is more important than big deer. You advocating hunting turning into a rich mans sport and I am against that. Also your numbers are a very simplistic version of reality.

Lunker what Dallan is saying is if you take away 20% of 250,000 that leaves you still with 200,000 hunters applying which is still twice as many applicants as tags (90,000).

I think recruitment is more important to keep hunting alive than quality. Don't get me wrong I think something needs to be done, but I don't like that idea. I wouldn't be opposed to a *small* price increase to both res. and non-res, but surely not double.


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## yak4fish (Nov 16, 2007)

You forgot about the $65.00 Non resident hunting lisence that you have to buy before you can put in for these tags. :evil: With that added in utah is right there with the rest of the western states. 
Multiply everything by two and that is what a spent on tags for my son and myself for our cow elk hunt.(these were the only tags we successfully drew).
Then I plan on spending between $600.00 to $800.00 on gas, butcher, food in Utah next week. With everything I hope to get out for less then $1.500.00 for the two of us to hunt cow elk DIY but it could get to $2,000.00 if something breaks or ????
Trust me Utah is making money off the non resident hunters big time. 
I love to hunt Utah and will keep going back but it is starting to get tough to afford.
Allen


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't have any problem with increasing the cost of tags for non resident hunters; HOWEVER, I am 100% against any reduction of tags on generals season hunts....these are general season hunts people, not trophy hunts! Any reduction of opportunity is a huge mistake....Colorado's deer mess is proof of that!

Everyone talks about how great the hunting in Colorado is because they have high buck/doe ratios and each year big bucks are killed. But, what they don't get is that Colorado's deer herd as a whole is really struggling....probably because they are sacrificing population growth and herd productivity for bucks and hunting. A very shortsighted and dangerous practice...

...let's look at their numbers as proof:
In 2005, Colorado estimated its deer population at 613,450 deer. That number declined to 612,760 deer in 2006, 538,770 deer in 2007, and 466, 760 deer in 2008! So, in the space of 4 years, Colorado has lost an estimated 146,690 deer! Yeah...they are doing a brilliant job over there! :roll:


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> I don't have any problem with increasing the cost of tags for non resident hunters; HOWEVER, I am 100% against any reduction of tags on generals season hunts....these are general season hunts people, not trophy hunts! Any reduction of opportunity is a huge mistake....Colorado's deer mess is proof of that!
> 
> Everyone talks about how great the hunting in Colorado is because they have high buck/doe ratios and each year big bucks are killed. But, what they don't get is that Colorado's deer herd as a whole is really struggling....probably because they are sacrificing population growth and herd productivity for bucks and hunting. A very shortsighted and dangerous practice...
> 
> ...


The problem is most people measure success by antler size, which is not a good correlation.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Yep, hunting is the reason for Colorado's reduction in the deer herd. The harsh winters during the past couple of years have had nothing to do with it? 

There is alot of factor's that play into herd survival.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

utfireman said:


> Yep, hunting is the reason for Colorado's reduction in the deer herd. The harsh winters during the past couple of years have had nothing to do with it?
> 
> There is alot of factor's that play into herd survival.


I never said hunting was the reason for Colorado's reduction; I said it was management. Colorado is managing for high/buck ratios to appease horn hunters. This management practice has come at a high cost on several of their DAUs, though.

Yep...you are right a lot of factors come into play. But, you can't tell me that high buck/doe ratios do NOT play a major factor. The winter losses suffered in Colorado the past couple of years would NOT have been near as bad had buck ratios been lower... high buck numbers means fewer does and fawns. Once you start replacing does and fawns with bucks, where does your recruitment come from? Had Colorado's buck/doe ratios been lower, recruitment numbers would have been higher and losses would not have been near as bad....

Why do you think Colorado is in the midst of a mule deer aging project? Why are they so interested in studying buck/doe ratios and hunter expectations during their deer hunts? Because their biologists know that they are heading down a very slippery slope!


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

One thing you're not considering is that unlike Utah, all of those States you brought up have the same price for their nonresident general tags and nonresident limited entry tags. My guess is that most nonresidents are more interested in the limited entry tags. Here are the price comparisons on limited entry.

*Utah*
Deer - $528.00 (Includes license)
Elk - $860.00 (Includes license)

*Idaho*
Deer - $456.50
Elk - $571.50

*Wyoming*
Deer - $312.00
Elk - $577.00

*Colorado*
Deer - $326.00
Elk - $546.00

It looks like to me that Utah is by far the most expensive right now. Last year the State of Idaho thought the same thing that you did and they raised their nonresident prices. The result was that they didn't sell nearly as many tags. They ended up with less money than they had if they would have left the prices alone. It's going to be the residents that will now have to make up the difference. If your goal is to make sure that residents have to pay more, you should continue to promote raising nonresident fees!


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

If we LOWER the price of permits for NR hunters we would probably sell a LOT more licenses and generate a ton more money. Remember, we won't be allowing any more hunters, so it won't effect any management schemes. I wouldn't know what the right pricing would be to maximize these sells but a good marketing company probably could help our DWR determine that.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

BPturkeys said:


> If we LOWER the price of permits for NR hunters we would probably sell a LOT more licenses and generate a ton more money. Remember, we won't be allowing any more hunters, so it won't effect any management schemes. I wouldn't know what the right pricing would be to maximize these sells but a good marketing company probably could help our DWR determine that.


You might be on to something there. Same number of permits and more people applying.

It is pretty funny that Idaho really did screw up on the price increase. I guess there is a ceiling of what people are willing to pay to hunt, particularly with todays economy.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

middlefork said:


> It is pretty funny that Idaho really did screw up on the price increase. I guess there is a ceiling of what people are willing to pay to hunt, particularly with todays economy.


I do think Idaho went overboard with prices this year. Not to mention the economy, Idaho's quality in both deer and elk has been going down for a few years. I love the no bonus point drawing system, but lots of non-res hate it, that hurts them to im afraid, but.........
Opportunity means nothing without QUALITY game to hunt for most NON RESIDENTS, after all, not to many people hunt out of state to shoot a two point deer or spike elk :!:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Short memories,,,,,,,,Utah modified permit costs in 2007 , went affective 08.
Shouldn't see anymore "adjustments" for about 4 more years,,,,,Here's the link.......

http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/07-12/big_game.php


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## pheasantphool (Nov 30, 2007)

Original Poster Here-

Interesting about Idaho raising there prices and the amount of non-resident hunters going down because of it. How much did Idaho raise there license fees? 

Maybe lowering the prices on non-resident tags may be the way to go if they cap the number of permits allocated to them. Lower price meets higher demand?

Idaho doesn't have a bonus point system? So everyone has the same chance each year for a tag? Interesting


For those of you who have got permits in other states such as Idaho and Wyoming do you find all the units in the state confusing? It seems at first glance a much more confusing process than Utah but I guess the key is to read through it carefully.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

> Interesting about Idaho raising there prices and the amount of non-resident hunters going down because of it. How much did Idaho raise there license fees?


It was a percent, I cant remeber off hand exactly how much they were, but a deer tag was like 280 and now its 300, elk was I believe about 380, now its about 420. Licence fees also increased on top of tag fees around 20-30 dollars. IMHO it was just the last straw for a lot of guys I know, the economy is not helping but like I said earlier quality has a lot to do with it as well.



> Maybe lowering the prices on non-resident tags may be the way to go if they cap the number of permits allocated to them. Lower price meets higher demand?


Idaho is DEPENDENT on Non-Residents for money. Residents Hunt for dirt cheap, a deer tag is twenty bucks, less than half the price of Utah. Non-res tags are capped the way things are. Idaho sent letters pretty much begging Non-Resident hunters to hunt in Idaho this year. To say the least, they are scrambling.



> Idaho doesn't have a bonus point system? So everyone has the same chance each year for a tag? Interesting


One of the last states to do things this way, Its great though in my opinion, I can apply for Deer, Elk and Antelope and have as good as odds as the next guy and draw some great tags every few years. Sheep, Goat and Moose is the same way, your odds are as good as anyones. A lot of guys hate the system as some will never draw....just the name of the game IMO.



> For those of you who have got permits in other states such as Idaho and Wyoming do you find all the units in the state confusing? It seems at first glance a much more confusing process than Utah but I guess the key is to read through it carefully.


You can not manage game effectivley any other way. Utah for some reason cannot get hold of this concept with deer and would like you to believe they can manage areas 200 miles apart from one another the same way. Hell suggest to your local biologist you would like to see the elk units in the state combined and managed like the deer, there is a reason why utah has elk units, I would compare the other states units to be very similar, not that hard to figure out really, but like you say, at a glance they can be a little intimidating.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> > To tell you the truth I can honestly say I have never met a non-resident general season deer hunting in Utah.


This year ran into 2 gents from Cali that where hunting general season deer, shock the hell outta me! I kept asking why! Of all the places, and Emery County to boot, I lived here all my life and can tell you theres not a deer here worth paying that price for.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Everyone knows the wolves are destroying the big game hunting in Idaho!!!!

That's why non-residents are not going to continue to buy permits in Idaho. :roll:


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