# Powder Switch



## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

So I have a LE Muzzy elk tag this year. I am super excited and ready for a fun hunt. 
I shoot a Thompson Omega and really love the gun, until now I have always shot two 50 grn pellets and a 300 grain TC Shockwave bullet. The combo shoots pretty good but I am nervous that is I have to shoot one at longer ranges (say 200 yards or so) with only 2 pellets there won't quite enough energy if it isn't a perfect shot. 
So I guess my question is should I switch to Triple 7 or I have been hearing a lot about Blackhorn 209? I wanted your guys' thoughts on what you think would be best. 

My dad and brother both have killed bulls using a very similar set up brothers was at about 140 yards and dad's at about 15, should I not worry about it? Just looking for opinions.


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## fishreaper (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm going to say that if you're flinging a 300 grain bullet with any measurable velocity, the only thing that matters is shot placement. A bad shot with 100 grains or a bad shot with 200 grains is still a bad shot. Besides, if you get your best accuracy with 100 grains, I don't think anything but practice will determine whether or not you drop your animal.


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm assuming your talking pyrodex pellets since you mention switching to T7 of BH? You could always go with T7 pellets or white hots if you choose to stay the pellet route. BH has a lot of benefits that you could do a search on here to learn, but some people prefer the "simplicity" of the pellet so I won't go into detail on that other than with loose powder you have more wiggle room to dial a load. 5 grains doesn't seem like much, but can make a difference with some bullet\gun combos. Also what primer are you using?

At the risk of being lit up, I'd also recommend using a better bullet. This is just my opinion, and in no way meant to offend, but if I have an LE elk tag (which will only be a couple times in my life if I'm lucky) I'm going to shoot a barnes. Especially if you are really talking about 200 yard shots. Again that is my opinion based on my results with the barnes. Eliminate potential failure points. (K.I.S. model)


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Blackhorn 209 is the best powder on the market. 

If you do decide to go with BH209 read the instructions (Magnum Primer, Organic based cleaning solution, etc)

White Hots and 777 are nice, but you have to clean your gun more often.

Just buy a bunch of speed loads and pre load your powder charges.

Buy some of each and experiment will each and find the load and ammo that your gun likes to shoot best. 

I agree with Justimi28 about a better bullet. I prefer Hornady FPB or SST, but Barnes and Thor are also solid options.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Blackhorn 209 is the best powder on the market.


A fairly subjective statement IMO, I mean 209 isnt even recommended for most of my muzzloaders according to the MFGs website.

It might very well be the best powder for guns capable of shooting it... but I certainly wouldn't call something that cant even be fired safely / reliably out of most muzzleloaders "the best".

-DallanC


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Blackhorn 209 is the best powder on the market.
> 
> If you do decide to go with BH209 read the instructions (Magnum Primer, Organic based cleaning solution, etc)
> 
> ...


 I was told that the TC Shockwave and Hornady SST are the same bullet is this not true?


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

DallanC said:


> A fairly subjective statement IMO, I mean 209 isnt even recommended for most of my muzzloaders according to the MFGs website.
> 
> It might very well be the best powder for guns capable of shooting it... but I certainly wouldn't call something that cant even be fired safely / reliably out of most muzzleloaders "the best".
> 
> -DallanC


What do you prefer to use Dallan?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I still use loose pyro RS, I've tried many other types of powders... nothing has come close to the accuracy of pyrodex. I can keep 1MOA groups with 240grn XTPs all day long with a quick swab between shots. If I swab every other shot, it opens to 2" groups... swab every 3rd shot its a 4" group... any more than that it opens up beyond acceptable and useful limits. Its not "the best" due to the additional cleanup but I dont mind tearing down any of my guns and cleaning them, even centerfire rifles.


-DallanC


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Raptorman said:


> I was told that the TC Shockwave and Hornady SST are the same bullet is this not true?


They do look similar.

I'm not a metallurgist, but I would bet they are metallurgically different.

We could get some strong acids (Nitric and Perchloric) and some high tech machinery(ICP) and figure it out.

On second thought, getting acid in the kind of amounts we would need to dissolve a 300 gr bullet would probably put us on FBI's most wanted list for potential bomb making and meth dealing.

So, I dunno


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## kstorrs (Oct 29, 2012)

Or we just slice one of each in half then analyze in an SEM machine to determine the composition of each bullet.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Raptorman said:


> So I have a LE Muzzy elk tag this year. I am super excited and ready for a fun hunt.
> I shoot a Thompson Omega and really love the gun, until now I have always shot two 50 grn pellets and a 300 grain TC Shockwave bullet. The combo shoots pretty good but I am nervous that is I have to shoot one at longer ranges (say 200 yards or so) with only 2 pellets there won't quite enough energy if it isn't a perfect shot.
> So I guess my question is should I switch to Triple 7 or I have been hearing a lot about Blackhorn 209? I wanted your guys' thoughts on what you think would be best.
> 
> My dad and brother both have killed bulls using a very similar set up brothers was at about 140 yards and dad's at about 15, should I not worry about it? Just looking for opinions.


I shoot 130 grains of triple 7 in pellets, 2 50's and a 30 grain pellet and a 290 grain barnes tez in my optima. I don't know if that is some serious over kill but it shoots well. and kills elk! I have thought about dropping down to a 100 grains but I like that extra velocity with that larger bullet.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

kstorrs said:


> Or we just slice one of each in half then analyze in an SEM machine to determine the composition of each bullet.


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

most everyone has there favorite loads and I try to keep my elk loads around 1000 fbe to do that I have come up with 150 of pyrodex pushing a 295 grain slug. and the accuracy is pretty close to my deer loads of 100-245. I have been lucky enough to go 4 for 4 on the late season elk hunt and have not had a problem the last bull was a classic lung shot and the bullet stopped on the hide on the off side. the bull only went around 40 and kicked over the other bulls were about the same. in very selective of my shots and will not shot at a bull over 200 yards in I stick with the soft tissue on the ribs and avoid the shoulders again that's just me and your weapon may shot a lot better with a different round. good luck and shoot straight on your hunt


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