# Recommendations on new shotgun



## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

What recommendations does everyone have for a 12 gauge shotgun, semi-automatic, preferably $1,000 and under.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Keeping under $1000 is going to be hard in the current market.

I shoot an old school Remington 1100LH 12GA. I love that gun. Even used ones are now well over $1k.

I got my wife a TriStar Raptor 20ga semi auto for Christmas that has been really reliable. It was $380 on sale. I wanted a wood stocked gun, I hate plastic shotguns, and this one is ok. Their Raptor is the next step up. Lots of good reviews on Tristar shotguns, for being in the price bracket they are. TriStar makes alot of 12's for under $1k. But no mistake, they are a budget shotgun based off the Benelli design. Time will tell how this gun holds up in the long term. Its a gasser so it needs a good cleaning after a couple boxes of shells... but its easy to disassemble.

Couple years ago I bought my son a Benelli Montefeltro as a graduation present. The gun is so-so, it has quirks for sure we're still figuring out. But they are already up 25% from 2 years ago... _IF_ you can even find one. It cycles just about anything... randomly the feedramp locks up when loading shells in, but we figured out how to quickly correct that. 

I really hate how benelli and the tristar (and all other clones of this design) are loaded. My 1100 is stupidly simple compared to those guns.

Honestly sifting through GunBroker is going to be your best bet in terms of selection. Prices are high so be warned.

-DallanC


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

New or used?

I'd add a couple hundred bucks to that budget and get a Benelli M2. If $1,000 is the absolute max, I'd look at either a SX3 or SX4. All of this is assuming it would be a one-size-fits-all type of shotgun.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

A Benelli would definitely get my vote but that’s gonna cost you a bit more.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I know its more than your preferred amount, but I'd I would save up and get an Benelli SBE3. I bought the grandson son one last year, he loves it. I'll stick with my old 11-87.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Irish Lad said:


> I know its more than your preferred amount, but I'd I would save up and get an Benelli SBE3. I bought the grandson son one last year, he loves it. I'll stick with my old 11-87.
> View attachment 147893


Collect/recycle highway beer cans/sell your plasma/pawn your wedding ring, do whatever is necessary to come up with a few hundred more for the M2.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I was hoping to stay around $1,000, I am willing to go to around $1,200-1,300 if the jump is worth that, and that seems to be what everyone is saying. Appreciate the input. I’d rather not get anywhere over $1,500.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

A Franchi Affinity wouldn’t be a bad choice either.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I agree with Jeff- the Franchi is where I'd go. The Affinity 3, but not with the 3 1/2" chamber. You can find them for under $1k. The Benelli is nice too.


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## T-dubs-42 (Sep 8, 2015)

It hasn't been around for long but the CZ 1012 might be worth looking into. I think they go for around $700. Heard there have been some choke issues though.


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## SX3 (Jun 3, 2014)

You can easily stay under $1,000 with an SX4. Excellent reliability and a great shooting gun.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Packout said:


> I agree with Jeff- the Franchi is where I'd go. The Affinity 3, but not with the 3 1/2" chamber. You can find them for under $1k. The Benelli is nice too.


Is pricing the reason for 3 instead of 3 1/2 or does the 3 1/2 inch chamber have issues?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

There is absolutely no reason to shoot 3.5” shells.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> There is absolutely no reason to shot 3.5” shells.


I see lol, there is just sometimes I’ll end up with a 3.5” shell and would rather my gun can hold them, but I think I’ll look pretty heavily into the Affinity it looks like a good gun with very good reviews.


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## Gordon (Sep 11, 2007)

DallanC said:


> randomly the feedramp locks up when loading shells in, but we figured out how to quickly correct that.


How did you fix this issue? My Franchi has the same problem


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

When it happens, pull the bolt back slightly, reach in and push the feed ramp back down, then release the bolt.

Later when we got home, with the gun disassembled and action removed, I worked the feed ramp and can see how the feed ramp could get bound up on a sharp edge of the action assembly. I have a post on it here with picture. I worked it against that sharp edge over and over by hand by pressing the feed ramp over a little and it "filed" off the edge somewhat and seemed to bind less. I've been meaning to get back in there with a dremel and open up that area a little bit more (its a clearance issue in a spot whereby opening it up wont affect anything else) and polish it up.

I'm pretty sure thats the root cause of the binding.

-DallanC


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Winchester, Stoeger, Weatherby, Beretta, Remington and others all have semi autos for under $1000. Which one is best? That's for you to decide.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Fowlmouth said:


> Winchester, Stoeger, Weatherby, Beretta, Remington and others all have semi autos for under $1000. Which one is best? That's for you to decide.


CPAJeff speaks the truth.
If the 3.5” shell would have never been developed we would all kill more ducks.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

MrShane said:


> CPAJeff speaks the truth.
> If the 3.5” shell would have never been developed we would all kill more ducks.


But Shane, every dike hunter out there knows that more pellets in the 3.5" shells will extend the killing range out to at least 120 yards. 😉


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## SCS_Bg_Hunter (Oct 27, 2019)

What are you going to be hunting primarily? I assume a little of everything but if you're not going to hunt waterfowl then in my opinion just for aesthetic reasons I would go with a wood stock, if waterfowl is going to be on the list then I would go with synthetic.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I, I sent you a PM. 🙂


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

C’mon now Bob, 120 yards is totally doable with a factory IC. Once a person screws in the aftermarket ported long range chokes, 160 yards is totally doable! 😉


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

CPAjeff said:


> C’mon now Bob, 120 yards is totally doable with a factory IC. Once a person screws in the aftermarket ported long range chokes, 160 yards is totally doable! 😉












😁 😁 😁


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

SCS_Bg_Hunter said:


> What are you going to be hunting primarily? I assume a little of everything but if you're not going to hunt waterfowl then in my opinion just for aesthetic reasons I would go with a wood stock, if waterfowl is going to be on the list then I would go with synthetic.


A variety, but waterfowl quite a bit.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

MrShane said:


> CPAJeff speaks the truth.
> If the 3.5” shell would have never been developed we would all kill more ducks.


For the most part I shoot 3”....but sometimes someone will hand me a 3.5” and it’s just nice if it doesn’t jam.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I only use them for geese. I believe you get about 22 more pellets if you're using BB shells.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I recently sold my 12 gauge 11-87 because it was too heavy, 8.25#. I then traded my black 20 gauge M2 in at Scheels and bought two camo M2s, a 20 and a 12. Both triggers were poor, so I sent the guns back to Benelli. They said the triggers were fine, 6# 4oz and 6# 10oz. They also said there was no creep, which is at variance with my opinion. They test fired them, corrected the hard loading on one, cleaned them and sent them back. I talked with the head of Benelli customer service, he invited me to send the trigger groups back for another look. While removing the triggers, I noticed pretty bad galling on the 20 gauge receiver just at the bottom edge of the ejection port which looked to be caused by the oversized bolt handle. Randy Orr at Benelli received the 20 and the trigger group from the 12 on Friday. Waiting to hear back. So, I'm overall not a happy camper.

Been doing a fair amount of research in case I need to buy another 20 gauge. fatbikehunter told me about the Retay Masai Mara, which has been reviewed very favorably by Randy Wakeman. Availability seems to be an issue, but it's not alone in that regard. Wakeman says it's the best 20 gauge autoloader around. Certainly worth a look.

#Deer 1-I, the best thing to do if someone hands you a 3 1/2" shell is to hand it right back.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

So Wakeman is currently on Retay's payroll??


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler said:


> Been doing a fair amount of research in case I need to buy another 20 gauge. fatbikehunter told me about the Retay Masai Mara, which has been reviewed very favorably by Randy Wakeman. Availability seems to be an issue, but it's not alone in that regard. Wakeman says it's the best 20 gauge autoloader around. Certainly worth a look.












It works for me. 😁


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

JerryH said:


> So Wakeman is currently on Retay's payroll??


That's the $64 question. I don't know if he's said and I haven't asked him. Retay looks like a legit company, though.



dubob said:


> View attachment 147908
> 
> 
> It works for me. 😁


Yep, I saw that you bought one last Fall. Interested in your impressions, especially if you're familiar with the Benelli M2. I've been seeing street prices between $900 and $1250, which is quite a wide range. Mind saying what you paid for yours?

I saw too late that Randy really likes the 11-87 in 20 gauge. That would have been a decent option, as Wakeman's copy weighed 6# 13oz, not off-putting in a duck gun. Cheap, too.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

paddler said:


> Yep, I saw that you bought one last Fall. Interested in your impressions, especially if you're familiar with the Benelli M2. I've been seeing street prices between $900 and $1250, which is quite a wide range. Mind saying what you paid for yours?


I have never owned (or wanted to own) a Benelli M2. I did own a Legacy 28 a few years back and used it on ducks, pheasants, and doves her in the USA and on doves in Uruguay. I sold the Legacy right after I got back from Uruguay because I discovered that the load port was so small that after volume speed loading half a case of dove loads that I had a cut across the top of my right thumb from friction rubbing the side of the loading port. Cut all the way to the bone. I used it as a single shot for a couple more boxes and then switched back to my 12 GA Beretta 390 for the rest of the three days of shooting. Back to the Retay.

No such problems with the Retay 20 GA. Loads fine and handles my 7/8 oz, 1200 fps target reloads just fine as well as the factory steel Xperts and Hevi-Shot Speedballs. However, comma, my Spolar produced reloads ALL have to be resized with a MEC resizer or they will NOT chamber. I had the same issue with the Legacy 28, a Huglu 28 SxS, a Beretta 686 SP1 in 28 GA, and a Beretta 391 20 GA. I won't get into any discussions about this issue except to say that shotguns made in Europe are made using metric specifications and the chambers can be tighter (smaller in diameter) than those made to the Imperial specifications we use. My Spolar reloads for all four Skeet bores fit every Briley and Kolar tube set (both made to Imperial measurements) we have owned.

Now that I owned a Retay and have used it for a couple of months, I agree with all that Randy Wakeman said about the new 20 GA. I am not at liberty to discuss the details of where I purchased mine or what I paid for it. I will say that IMHO, it is worth the MSRP asking price. I am waiting for an upgrade part from Retay USA which is the larger bolt release lever that is available on some of the 12 GA models. This lever will make it easier for my 76-year young bride to close the bolt. She struggles a little with the current button.

I've only had the Retay 20 GA since November 2020, but so far I think it is a keeper. It's been used to shoot ducks, pheasants, and clays at Skeet & SC. I like it and my bride likes it. I think if your budget will allow it, you should give it a serious look.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

Now does anyone know where a Franchi Affinity is in stock so I can see one in person lol?


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

Scheels in Sandy is showing some in stock (12 gauge, 26", black).


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

After seeing the fiasco goosefreak went through when he sent his new Benelli M2 in for repair, I will NEVER purchase a POS Benelli. Their Customer Service SUCKS!


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> After seeing the fiasco goosefreak went through when he sent his new Benelli M2 in for repair, I will NEVER purchase a POS Benelli. Their Customer Service SUCKS!


Do tell. I don't remember what Nate went through. I'll reserve judgement until I hear back from Benelli, but I'm underwhelmed so far. Kinda tough sending in a new gun and have them return it damaged.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Brand new M2 12 gauge locked up on him in the goose field with me and utbigbull. He sent the gun back, in clean non working condition. Benelli had the M2 for weeks, sent it back to him fixed, with a letter stating the gun was dirty on arrival and basically abused. Not true! It was a new gun. He purchased a SX3 while the M2 was in for repair. He sold the M2 as soon as he got it back.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> Brand new M2 12 gauge locked up on him in the goose field with me and utbigbull. He sent the gun back, in clean non working condition. Benelli had the M2 for weeks, sent it back to him fixed, with a letter stating the gun was dirty on arrival and basically abused. Not true! It was a new gun. He purchased a SX3 while the M2 was in for repair. He sold the M2 as soon as he got it back.


Interesting. I have heard of a Franchi locking up because of a loose pellet caught in the action. Nate's situation is a bit different from mine in that I never fired mine. We'll see what they do. I like the 12 gauge, it's a bit over 7# and handles well. I have lots of 12 gauge ammo on hand, only a few cases of 20 gauge. I can hunt waterfowl a long time without a 20.


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## larrymazzuca75 (Mar 23, 2019)

DallanC said:


> Keeping under $1000 is going to be hard in the current market.
> 
> I shoot an old school Remington 1100LH 12GA. I love that gun. Even used ones are now well over $1k.
> 
> ...


You know, there are several ways, like most SA, to load your shotgun. The TriStar is no different. BTW....I absolutely love my Montefeltro. Not sure of the quirks you mentioned your Monty has, but mine operates great and I prefer it over my Beretta A400 20g and “that’s” a nice shotgun!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

larrymazzuca75 said:


> I absolutely love my Montefeltro. Not sure of the quirks you mentioned your Monty has, but mine operates great and I prefer it over my Beretta A400 20g and “that’s” a nice shotgun!


Its not far down from this post in in this very forum. The "breech bolt latch" doesnt clear the action housing when it retracts, hangs up on that corner and binds up the entire action.









Benelli shotgun troubleshooting


My Sons Benelli Montefeltro is having an odd issue. Its a nearly brand new gun, around 4 boxes through it. There's an issue where it hangs up, bolt retracted and the elevator raised up. It gets locked in this position. The bolt release does nothing. It can be pushed in, but does not release...




www.utahwildlife.net





-DallanC


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

So, I talked to Benelli today. The trigger on the 12 gauge now breaks at just under 5#, the 20 just over 5#. Randy Orr tells me they can't do any better because the trigger guard is plastic. I call BS. The scoring on the 20 gauge receiver was caused by the bolt handle when they test fired it at Benelli USA. Apparently, there is no shoulder on the oversized bolt handle to prevent it from being pushed too far through the bolt, allowing the flange to contact and gall the receiver. He's sending me a couple of standard bolt handles so it won't happen again. I call that piss poor design on the factory oversized bolt handles. This begs the question, of course, of why they sent the damaged gun back to me in the first place.

He told me they "dressed" the 20 gauge receiver and it's out to be ceracoated. So, I sent them two new guns, unfired, and they're sending back a gun they damaged and refinished. Not impressed, of course. At least the triggers sound like they're acceptable, I'll know more when I get them back. He tells me they can't do much about the creep because it's plastic, that they're not "precision" triggers. With today's manufacturing processes I very much doubt they can't do better. I believe that on a $1400 gun one has the right to expect crisp triggers that break at not more than 5#. There are things I like about the M2, but to be fair the issues I have had are preventable and just should never happen. Buyer beware. 

Edit- I looked at my 12 gauge. Randy is wrong about the oversized bolt handle. It indeed has a .009" shoulder to limit how far it goes into the bolt. The flange portion of the bolt handle contacts the receiver because of the play between the bolt and the receiver. This is visible on my 12 gauge receiver, but it's not anywhere near as bad as my 20 gauge. The length of the shoulder should be increased enough prevent contact. Until that is corrected by Benelli, I would recommend against using the factory oversized handle.














to


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Paddler,

good write up. I haven’t experienced these issues with my SBE-II but you also get out hunting more than I do the last few years. Makes me wonder if I’ll see this one day...


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, color me irritated. I received the 12 gauge trigger assembly from Benelli USA today. It has almost 1/8" inch of creep, and is still way too heavy. I can't really say they did anything to it. I think it's heavy and has so much creep because it's really a POS. There is so much side-to-side play in the hammer that if they reduced the trigger pull weight or the creep it could be unsafe. Outrageous design, materials and build quality here. I compared it to an old Remington 1100 that's been sitting in my closet for thirty years and the difference is night and day. The latter is crisp and not more than 4#. Given that, plus the poorly designed oversized bolt handle that can and does gall the receiver, and the fact that the head of Benelli customer service didn't even understand the problem, I really cannot recommend anybody buy these guns unless they know what they're getting into. Can't wait to get the 20 gauge back after they "dressed" and refinished it. A $1400 gun?? Give me a break. No, better, give me my money back.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

My 20 gauge got back to me yesterday, two months after I bought it from Scheels. The 12 gauge got back a couple of weeks ago. They did fine on the 20 gauge receiver, can't tell that it was galled and then refinished. Both guns feel good, 6# an 7# for the 20 gauge and 12 gauge, respectively. They handle and look good, so that's nice. 

That leaves the triggers, which are still atrocious. They said the 12 gauge trigger breaks at 4# 15oz, the 20 at 5# 4oz. I don't have a trigger pull scale, so cannot confirm that. However, if you hang the 20 gauge from your finger on the trigger, it won't break. Ridiculous. Also, the creep on both guns is the worst I've ever seen. Benelli should be embarrassed.

Bottom line, if you buy these guns, beware of the triggers, they're very poor and may not be easily fixable. And, you should probably avoid the oversized bolt handles as they can gall the receiver. I will keep them for now because returning them is too much trouble. If I was in the market for I new gun, though, I'd look elsewhere.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

So the Randy Wakeman card didn't play out?


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

JerryH said:


> So the Randy Wakeman card didn't play out?


He said they made his about 4 3/4#. He didn't mention the creep, so don't know if his is as bad as mine. All I have to do is start my trigger pull on Monday if I want to hunt Tuesday.

I reached out to Randy, he said his trigger didn't have noticeable creep.

Here's the video of the 20 gauge after returning it twice to Benelli Customer Service. The first time they said there was no creep. Failed to fix it after two attempts. The 12 gauge is the same:


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Here's a couple of videos of the M2 trigger. The first shows the hammer traveling back further when you pull the trigger, which means you're fighting the hammer spring. Weird. The second shows the sear engagement, which demonstrates why there's so much creep. I'm going to order replacement springs for my M2s. If anybody local is interested in going in on the order, let me now in the next several days. You'll need both the hammer and trigger spring, at $8 each, so not much to get a much nicer trigger. I'm seeing triggers in the 3.5# range.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Just a follow up. I took a look at the Remington 1100 trigger, which I think is the same as the 11-87. Here's the video. Note that the sear moves up and back with the trigger pull. Pulling the trigger does not compress the hammer spring, which is proper:






So, the problem with the M2 trigger is a fundamental design flaw, and trying to improve it is somewhat problematic. One needs to reduce the spring pressure. I ordered the replacement springs yesterday, but in the meantime trimmed the factory one in the 20 gauge. It now breaks at 4.25#, which is okay. It's still creepy and spongy, the design makes it just about impossible to remedy the problem.

Here's a link to the Shotgun World thread, now with over 1500 views with multiple replies by Randy Wakeman. Kinda fun if you want to nerd out:









M2 Trigger??


I bought two M2s a couple of weeks ago. Checked the trigger pulls in the store, somewhat inconsistent but heavy. When I got home I tried them normally and was disappointed that they both have lots of creep. Talked to customer service, they sent shipping labels and I sent them in. They told...




www.shotgunworld.com





I also have been in communication with Randy Orr, head of customer service at Benelli USA. I asked him to pass along my concerns to Benelli Italy. I'm sure nothing will come of it, but I think it's important to call out BS.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I received the replacement springs recently and installed them last evening. The 20 gauge trigger now breaks at 3# 4oz, the 12 at 3# 6oz. The creep is unchanged.


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