# Fishlake Spearfishing Massacre



## Christopher30

I've hunted this down from some other forums, does anyone else think this is insane? 
These cats from colorado pulled up to fishlake last weekend during the mac spawn and put the hurt to a bunch of trophy sized splake and mackinaw, from what i see, it looks like they don't know the difference between a mack and splake either. I'm sick about it personally. I met an 87 year old up there this summer that has been fishing there since he was 8 years old, and has never caught a fish out of fishlake over 10lbs. These guys went up for a weekend and killed more than most people catch up there in a lifetime. What a joke, hopefully this blossoms into some new protective legislation next year. If they can do this, why can't i take my 22 up to kolob creek and shoot the 20-25 inch spawners in the spring. Ethically, i don't see the difference. Maybe it takes some skill to hold your breath and dive under and drill fish with spears, but i say it takes a lot more skill to do it with rod and reel. Spearfishing doesn't bother me, reckless disregard for a quailty fishery makes my stomach hurt.......
http://www.spearboard.com//showthread.php?t=71246


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## Huge29

Wow; that does seem odd; I was under the impression that that was not allowed; as I read pages 28-29 I see that it is allowed at many lakes for about 4months of the year.


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## LOAH

:shock: 

I feel raped and I've only fished there once.

I'd like to see those creeps do that where the lakers normally hang out.

You're right. Wrong time of year for that to be okay. No wonder the big boys are in decline.

Very sad. 

Look how cool they think they are too.


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## mjschijf

WHAT IN THE HELL???

That is insane. I am already sick with the flu, and I just became even more sick looking at those photos. Is this seriously legal? Someone please fill me in.


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## DeadI

Im not sick about it. Im just flat pissed. There is no way that that should be leagal. If they want to shoot some big fish they should be shooting the freaking carp, they are everywere and no one is going to care how many they take.


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## svmoose

Post removed.


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## LOAH

You guys should check out the thread on BFT over it.

Some of the spearfishermen have even registered there and joined the discussion.

Quite interesting, but I'm still very unsettled over the outcome of the event.

Sure, 22 fish out of fish lake isn't a huge dent, but that's 22 nice fish in one day.

Ouch.

I guess more spearfishing tourneys are scheduled for Flaming Gorge and Yuba or something like that.

Link:

http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/...i?post=446018;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed


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## Fishrmn

It looks like it was all on the up and up, but it might not be the best thing for the fishery. I'm not saying it isn't a challenge, or that it doesn't look fun. There are many places that are closed to angling during the spawn. Some streams are closed to protect cutthroats. Flaming Gorge is closed to the possession of kokanee during their spawn. Linwood bay is closed to protect spawning macs. Maybe Fish Lake should be closed during the spawn to protect the macs too.


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## deadicatedweim

LOAH said:


> :shock:
> 
> I feel raped and I've only fished there once.
> 
> I'd like to see those creeps do that where the lakers normally hang out.
> 
> You're right. Wrong time of year for that to be okay. No wonder the big boys are in decline.
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> Look how cool they think they are too.


+1
That just makes me sick to see. I dont think they should allow this sort of thing on game fish in the states. There are plenty of carp and salt water fish to be killed. Im no biologist so I would like to know about how many fish would be spawn from this size of fish versus a 17-23 inch fish.


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## Bushmaster223

This makes me sick! I can't believe this! 
I have a family trip planned for fish lake and leaving this morning. I could not sleep with the excitement and anticipation of catching a big Mack so I checked the fishing forum one last time in hopes of some good information and came across this. My chances for catching a big fish are alot slimmer. Too bad the fish aren't bigger because I sure wish they would have eatin these freakin chuckle heads!

I sent my complaints to the Utah DWR comments. Any other suggestions?


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## netresult

What a waste of a great resource. After reading their post on the spearfishing board, it's obvious that they will be back to wreak more carnage on this great fishery. It sounds like some members may be more responsible, by taking carp and suckers, and the rest had to slaughter the huge Macs'. Hopefully the officials will do something constructive to limit this practice.


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## Nueces

I guess that was more fun than placing gill nets out and removing every fish they could snag? -)O(-


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## EvenOlderFudd

HOLLY CRAP.!! Is that the old crew from the TV series Sea Hunt?? MAN!! did you leave any for the rest of us?? OH! can't catch and release. with the 06 holes in there sides...


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## wyoming2utah

I think there is some serious hypocrisy on this thread...Just out of curiosity, how many big fish have line and rod fishermen harvested from Fish Lake this year...any bets it is more than 15? So, who is having the greater effect of the number of big fish?

According to DWR harvest surveys/estimates, anglers harvest as many as 732 lake trout in a year. Also, studies on the lake trout in Fish Lake have shown that the age of trophy lakers are highly variable...those big fish could range from 10 years old to 30 years old. Once those lake trout switch to a fish only diet, they grow exceptionally quickly....

...the spearfishing up there has a much smaller effect than regular fishing does....

I don't see anything wrong with what was done...


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## orvis1

Very sad to see... Such a great lake resource just brutally raped and it is legal to..... :evil:


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## Gameface

Heck, I don't know, but that looks like a lot of fun to me. Those guys educated themselves about the law, organized an event for which they all had to travel, and had great success. They had DWR officials there for the weigh-ins and by all accounts followed every law.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are only able to take 1 large fish. So even if they jump in the water and are surrounded by dozens of large fish they have to wait and select "the one" that they want to take. I don't know how that's a massacre.

If the argument is that WE need to change the law so that this doesn't happen during the spawn then I'm onboard. If the argument is that these guys are a bunh of jerks who are ruining all of our lives then I strongly disagree.


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## Packfish

Gameface said:


> Heck, I don't know, but that looks like a lot of fun to me. Those guys educated themselves about the law, organized an event for which they all had to travel, and had great success. They had DWR officials there for the weigh-ins and by all accounts followed every law.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are only able to take 1 large fish. So even if they jump in the water and are surrounded by dozens of large fish they have to wait and select "the one" that they want to take. I don't know how that's a massacre.
> 
> If the argument is that WE need to change the law so that this doesn't happen during the spawn then I'm onboard. If the argument is that these guys are a bunh of jerks who are ruining all of our lives then I strongly disagree.


 Not my cup of tea- but I have to agree with everything Gameface said.


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## Treehugnhuntr

I agree with Wyo2 and Gameface. I don't see the problem. We hunt elk, deer and antelope during the rut, and on a large scale. A hand full of dudes come and shoot less than 2 fish each and fits are thrown?

How about guys that C&R macs? You know they are not all surviving the coming from the abyss.


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## HOGAN

I only catch them when shallow, so they survive but I see your point for others.


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## F/V Gulf Ventur

Frickin' awesome! Thanks for posting.


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## scubadown16

I love how we are beating this to death... I guess I'll explain myself on this forum as well...

Hello everyone... My name is James and I am the one who hosted the tournament... I want to start off by saying that what we did was in no way illegal.. I had three DNR officers present at my tournament weight-in. Not one diver was ticketed or even questioned for what we did. Now I understand that some people are upset that some SPLAKE TROUT and a Couple LAKE TROUT were taken. I can understand that some people may never take a trout like what we caught. But I want everyone to understand that this fishery is still very healthy even with 13 fish taken out of it. We practice Release and Catch. We don't take every fish we see. We let a whole lot of big fish go that weekend. But we did take some fish for our food. I think that its wrong of people to say that I can't provide for my family by spearfishing a trout or two regaurdless of its size. I would also like to point out that I have found a study showing that these fish are not as old as most people are claiming. Here is a link to the findings.
http://wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/fis...lake_trout.pdf
I have spoke with the DNR about all of this and hope that everyone will stop beating a dead horse. I find it a bit hypicritical that the gentlemen who started this post is holding a Lake Trout from the same lake that he too Killed to put up on his wall by his own admistion. Now because he took that with hook and line no one said a thing. But I choose to hold my breath and dive underwater in tempatures that are in the low 50's and shoot mine. I am being publicly hung out to dry.. I think that is wrong.

Is spearfishing sporting? Have a 'swim in my fins' before you pass judgment on how 'sporting' spearfishing is or isn't. It isn't as easy as the 'trophy' pictures make it look.

As for spearing mackinaw during Fall as the cold weather starts to roll around and the spawning season begins, I would ask if there were H & L fishermen on the lake at the same time? It seems to me that ice off and fall are the two 'best' times for serious fishermen to get the BIG ones on Fish Lake, the Gorge, and Strawberry. Most fishermen would concede that the fish are hungry and will bite just about anything you throw in the water. Is this taking unfair advantage of the fish? Or is it being a better fisherman?

Are these fellows putting away their fishing poles during ice off and during the fall when fish are vulnerable or in a weakened state? I would guess not. What are the survival rates of catch and release with fish in a weakened condition? Anybody?

Just a few of my thoughts

Thank you 
James L. Hardesty III


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## Treehugnhuntr

Good post.


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## threshershark

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I agree with Wyo2 and Gameface. I don't see the problem. We hunt elk, deer and antelope during the rut, and on a large scale. A hand full of dudes come and shoot less than 2 fish each and fits are thrown?
> 
> How about guys that C&R macs? You know they are not all surviving the coming from the abyss.


+1 -- I agree w/ Tree, Wyo, and Gameface. What is up with saying these guys should just go spear carp instead? Why doesn't anyone who made that statement just go fish for carp instead of trout, bass, or any other game fish? After all they are known for being strong fighters.

Anyone who has never spearfished may not realize it is not easy. It's not like walking up and jabbing a spawning cutt in 4 inches of water. You have to submerge yourself in ice cold water, be athletic enough to free dive effectively, and then practice shooting underwater with just as much dedication as an archer practices with a bow. You have to compensate for refraction changing line of sight, water resistance, etc. It's a challenging sport.

I've only done it a few times, all of which were in the ocean, but it's not a turkey shoot.

Stalking a trophy game fish underwater with an extremely close range weapon where it is legal is as legit as any fishing anywhere. Other types of fishing have a far, far greater impact on the fishery.


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## Nor-tah

Crickets Crickets... Although I disagree with some of this, however, I am not a Biologist and I trust the DWR to make a good call on it. They know the general public would be all over them if it were illegal. you really eating all those trout scuba? Just making sure... Not trying to stir the pot here...


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## Jacksonman

There have been lots of very poignant, logical defenses made, but for most of us fishermen, seeing so many huge trout taken in one day at such a beautiful lake that is already experiencing a decrese in large fish is hard to swallow. I love Fish Lake although I have only fished it 4 or 5 times and am yet to land a large mac.

The problem that I have with this copmetition is that it is so much easier to target the big fish and when you do land one, it is going to be dead. I am not arguing that it takes a lot of skill and talent, but it is SO much easier to target the big fish - you see it and you shoot (oversimpified I know). Fishermen not only have to find the fish but have to entice the fish to change its behavior and bite some artificial man-made lure or jig. The fish plays a huge role in whether it is caught or not, so you have to outsmart the fish. When speargunning fish, you have to see it, wait for the big one and shoot (again, I know this takes skill, but it is easier).

I hate the arguement that, It's legal therefore no one should have a problem with it. What is legal and what is ethical is not always the same thing. Shooting prized game fish on the decline, especially during the rut. It is also hard to swallow that there were out-of-staters who have no real interest in the long-term health of Fish Lake. Legal, yes - unethical and unhealthy for the lake, I would also argue yes.

These spearhunters try to argue that shooting the lakers during the spawn is like shooting elk during the rut. i don't do much hunting but from what I know, hunting big game is highly regulated with a very limited amount of tags going out, allowing many more bulls to be shot than cows, and most of those bucks being spikes, or smaller bulls. But I would also contend that mac hunting is more like moose hunting in Utah as they are much more rare and prized, and from what i understand, you can shoot one moose in Utah in your lifetime. The fact that spearfishermen can keep coming back to both waters that hold large lakers and rape the state of this prized gamefish really leaves me unsettled.

The fact that you can so much more easily target the trophy fish when spearfishing should result in much more stringent regulations, for example:

-Two day to spearfish in Fish Lake and Flaming Gorge each per year, can only do it from June- August, you must have a tag on your person to do it and you can only take a laker between 24"- 30"s which must be tagged and recorded with UDWR. 
- Only one lake trout over 30"s per lifetime and once caught and recorded, you can not spearfish Lake Trout in those lakes.
- Spearfishing at other lakes for carp, suckers, etc, allowed year around with no limit.
- No spearfishing at certain lakes (Strawberry, Pinview?) etc.
- Limit of only one trophy gamefish per lake at all other lakes (and then define trophy status).
- All othe slot limitations still apply (protect most bass).

The way I see it, the spearfishermen should still have a shot at one trophy laker in Utah during certain times of the year (like hunting) but only one, and when they get that one, they can move on to something else. They can have all the fun they want with trash fish and unwanted species. Then they need to be limited on the amount of trophies of other species.

I would hate to hear about tons of monster pike and walleye killed out of yuba and then tons of large macs and even bows slaughtered at the Gorge. It is currently legal but I thin kit is in the best interest of the high majority for it not to be.

Not knocking too hard on the individuals who participated but rather in the unprepared status of the legislation to deal with this recent boom in spearfishing.


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## Treehugnhuntr

> Shooting prized game fish on the decline, especially during the rut.


YOU consider them prized, others may or may not. It is very subjective. I personally might think it's BS that anyone who doesn't use fly gear to catch them is a slob and not giving them a fair chance, god forbid it be out of staters. Does that hold water?


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## wyoming2utah

Jacksonman said:


> but for most of us fishermen, seeing so many huge trout taken in one day at such a beautiful lake that is already experiencing a decrese in large fish is hard to swallow. I love Fish Lake although I have only fished it 4 or 5 times and am yet to land a large mac.


Not true...the catch rate of lake trout in gill nets has increased and the number of trophy lake trout has stayed stable since the late 80s...all the worry about these guys "raping" the population of trophy lake trout is unfounded and false.


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## orvis1

scubadown16 said:


> As for spearing mackinaw during Fall as the cold weather starts to roll around and the spawning season begins, I would ask if there were H & L fishermen on the lake at the same time? It seems to me that ice off and fall are the two 'best' times for serious fishermen to get the BIG ones on Fish Lake, the Gorge, and Strawberry. Most fishermen would concede that the fish are hungry and will bite just about anything you throw in the water. Is this taking unfair advantage of the fish? Or is it being a better fisherman?
> 
> Are these fellows putting away their fishing poles during ice off and during the fall when fish are vulnerable or in a weakened state? I would guess not. What are the survival rates of catch and release with fish in a weakened condition? Anybody?
> 
> Just a few of my thoughts
> 
> Thank you
> James L. Hardesty III


Congrats for having the stones to come here and attempt to defend yourself. Fishing with convential methods the fish has a good chance to be released and caught by another angler. Using artificial meathods I understand the survival rate to be better than 90%! When you shoot a spear through a fish I don't give that fish much chance of survival. Yes you are legal, yes your group sounds responsible, but doubfull many of the "conventional anglers" would like to see you at the gorge or fish lake. Plus being from out of state to come into our home waters and harvest what I understood was 29 macs is hard to swallow for many like me whom have spent numerous hours chasing these fish without success. One tournament would not have to much of a dent in the population but your post will get more interest in the "sport" and what if there are 15 tournaments up there? I guess since I don't hunt I just don't get it and see what you do similar as hunting cows in a fenced field just going after the meat. Plus large lakers taste like crap!


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## wyoming2utah

Jacksonman said:


> The fact that you can so much more easily target the trophy fish when spearfishing should result in much more stringent regulations, for example:
> 
> -Two day to spearfish in Fish Lake and Flaming Gorge each per year, can only do it from June- August, you must have a tag on your person to do it and you can only take a laker between 24"- 30"s which must be tagged and recorded with UDWR.
> - Only one lake trout over 30"s per lifetime and once caught and recorded, you can not spearfish Lake Trout in those lakes.
> - Spearfishing at other lakes for carp, suckers, etc, allowed year around with no limit.
> - No spearfishing at certain lakes (Strawberry, Pinview?) etc.
> - Limit of only one trophy gamefish per lake at all other lakes (and then define trophy status).
> - All othe slot limitations still apply (protect most bass).
> 
> The way I see it, the spearfishermen should still have a shot at one trophy laker in Utah during certain times of the year (like hunting) but only one, and when they get that one, they can move on to something else. They can have all the fun they want with trash fish and unwanted species. Then they need to be limited on the amount of trophies of other species.
> 
> I would hate to hear about tons of monster pike and walleye killed out of yuba and then tons of large macs and even bows slaughtered at the Gorge. It is currently legal but I thin kit is in the best interest of the high majority for it not to be.


Your spearfishing regulation idea is ridiculous...no offense meant. But, come on. Why should these guys be limited when regular fishermen are not. Should we also limit bait fishermen at Fish Lake to one trophy per lifetime? What about the after ice-off fishermen (who happened to be very successful as well)? Why should these spear fishermen be forced to only chase non-game? Why shouldn't they be allowed to harvest trophy lake trout just like anybody else?

You are again totally exaggerating the number of fish taken when you refer to hating the idea of hearing about "tons" of monster pike or walleye being taken somewhere else. These guys didn't take so many fish that it will hurt the population...and, again, their harvest had a much smaller impact on the fishery than hook and line anglers ever will.


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## Treehugnhuntr

wyoming2utah said:


> Jacksonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you can so much more easily target the trophy fish when spearfishing should result in much more stringent regulations, for example:
> 
> -Two day to spearfish in Fish Lake and Flaming Gorge each per year, can only do it from June- August, you must have a tag on your person to do it and you can only take a laker between 24"- 30"s which must be tagged and recorded with UDWR.
> - Only one lake trout over 30"s per lifetime and once caught and recorded, you can not spearfish Lake Trout in those lakes.
> - Spearfishing at other lakes for carp, suckers, etc, allowed year around with no limit.
> - No spearfishing at certain lakes (Strawberry, Pinview?) etc.
> - Limit of only one trophy gamefish per lake at all other lakes (and then define trophy status).
> - All othe slot limitations still apply (protect most bass).
> 
> The way I see it, the spearfishermen should still have a shot at one trophy laker in Utah during certain times of the year (like hunting) but only one, and when they get that one, they can move on to something else. They can have all the fun they want with trash fish and unwanted species. Then they need to be limited on the amount of trophies of other species.
> 
> I would hate to hear about tons of monster pike and walleye killed out of yuba and then tons of large macs and even bows slaughtered at the Gorge. It is currently legal but I thin kit is in the best interest of the high majority for it not to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Your spearfishing regulation idea is ridiculous...no offense meant. But, come on. Why should these guys be limited when regular fishermen are not. Should we also limit bait fishermen at Fish Lake to one trophy per lifetime? What about the after ice-off fishermen (who happened to be very successful as well)? Why should these spear fishermen be forced to only chase non-game? Why shouldn't they be allowed to harvest trophy lake trout just like anybody else?
> 
> You are again totally exaggerating the number of fish taken when you refer to hating the idea of hearing about "tons" of monster pike or walleye being taken somewhere else. These guys didn't take so many fish that it will hurt the population...and, again, their harvest had a much smaller impact on the fishery than hook and line anglers ever will.
Click to expand...

+1


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## GaryFish

I guess I'm a little late to join this party. But I've been reading through it. In all reality, I'm not a spearfishing guy. I can actually be elitist at times with my fly fishing, but I'll throw a worm now and again for giggles. 
But the two arguments against the spear-chuckers I've heard are:

I've spent hours fishing and never caught one and these guys speared several and that's not fair; and
I don't like people from out of state "stealing" my Utah fish. 

I gotta say - both these arguments are juvinile at best. The first is nothing but jealousy and the second is socialistically egocentric.

If these guys are buying the appropriate license to fish, (remember - out of state licenses cost considerably more than resident license), who cares. As for taking more big fish than I do with hook and line - again - who cares? Pro has killed more big elk than me. So what. Good for him. If I want to spear a big fish, then I can. And you can. And anyone else wanting to take up the sport can. Because someone else does it and I don't - I don't see how that makes a legal activity unethical. You may not like it, but it doesn't make it unethical.


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## .45

Very commendable post scubadown16 !! 

Like Mr. orvis1 said, it's good of you to give us the other side of the story. I can also admire the way you handled yourself's with the rules and regulation's of this State. Good homework !!

Hope we can see more of your post !!


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## one hunting fool

I am all for spearfishing and have done it in places across the country when scub diving. but i have never done it at Fishlake and would not. even more not on the spawn. I have a great respect for that lake. my family has a cabin on the Doctor. i grew up fishing it and as my dad says if i can not out smart the fish with a wiggle of the worm or lure then they win that round. The spawn should be OFF LIMITS.


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## Treehugnhuntr

I don't care much for the way fish lake is managed. I think non-native lake trout should be eradicated. Spear fishing would be a good tool to aid in the removal of these fish.


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## Treehugnhuntr

Oh yeah.


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## Doc

Ok, take this with a grain (or two) of salt and try to see the satire/humor intended. I could even envision a cartoon much like the one posted concerning spidey.

This could open a whole new profit center to the UDWR and the "Moss Posse". Add a governors tag for Lake trout HUNTING and pass out a few tags to sportsmen groups to finance improved fisheries. We would all benefit.

The Utah Supreme Court ruling is obviously made to foster such an event.

The discussion board could have discussions such as ethics about traditional spear fishing, vs hawaiian spears vs powered spears; Snorkeling vs scuba equipment; the list goes on. We could even get a thread going about the one eyed, no pectoral fin trout near Joe Bush!!

:shock:


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## scubadown16

I would like to thank those of you who have commented both in my favor as well as apposed. I am an ethical sportsman who wants to hear what people have to say.. It helps me out as a promoter of my sport. I just hope that people will see that there are many ways to enjoy our lakes and resources... Weather or not they agree with my form of fishing. For those that say the resources won't be there if we continue to allow this type of fishing. I have this to say. Spearfishing accounts for less then 1% of all the take in fishing. I appriciate the person who said that they want to see more of our post. I would love to. How ever I feel that I will keep my photos and stories in a much tighter circle as I have found them to be used agressively against me. 

I want to point out that a gentleman named RON ANDERSON. Has made several false claims agains me and my group and has sent emails to my sponsors trying to have them pull their support. I am not sure why. But I think because of this type of behavior I can't afford to share my success with others. Which is a same because if you ever have a chance to freedive weather you are spearfishing or not you'll see that your in a hole new world. One that is truely free....

Thank you all again

James L Hardesty III


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## elkmaster

First off I want to say that I have gone spearfishing and enjoyed it. I have friends from Hawaii who all they can talk about is spearfishing the Ocean.

I have also spent days fishing fishlake. I love that fishery and I love that resource. Being a wildlife major at BYU and graduating in Decmber I look at facts and science to answer questions and not just futile opinions and feelings.

If you research the long term effects of spearfishing on salt water species the majority of research shows a long term decline in the population numbers and a decrease in the size of fish. I will post a few papers later when I get off work but these papers can be found even by going onto google scholar and looking at the few studies that have studied the effect of spearfishing. Most show a decline in one species or another.

I think a regulation should be put down to protect a spawning population of lake trout. They are probably the most fragile trout species in Utah, ( Subjective, no data of to back that up)! This is ridiculous and if it becomes a yearly tradition I see a serious decline in the trout population. The data showing a stable population goes back before spearfishing.

I think a little bit more regulation is needed! This doesn't sit well with the majority then it is probably something that needs to be changed.


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## Christopher30

I'm not trying to have a spitting match with the spearfisherman, Hell i'd go as far as to say spearfishing sounds like a good time all in all. No one answered my question, why is it legal to to tee off on one of Utahs most well renowned game fish when they are spawning like that? The summertime sure, if you colorado boys go up and do that in the summer why not, my hat is off to you. Garyfish to call my argument and from what i've heard both on forum and around town (yes it's around now) the majority's argument junvenile? Sorry, i thought the point of the forum was to express opinions, not to be called juvenile for making a pretty solid case. That is just wrong if you ask me. 
What if i posted a picture of me and about 11 friends all holding up trophy dead fish that we had caught, would the reaction be the same? yeah probably. It's not that what they did was illegal, it's that it should be illegal. Those fish take years to grow that size, and to shoot them for a sport is sickening to me. That lake is not that big, i'll bet you a few of those now dead macks has been caught by a seasoned angler and released for someone younger to enjoy. That plan was sadly kaboshed when a spear hit them broadside while they were trying to make more lake trout, something they have a hard enough time doing without being shot at.
Whoever was stupid enough to say that fishing for trophy macks and spearfishing for them are the same thing, heres a picture for you. If these guys would've caught this fish would it have been heading back down to eat some more chubs? Don't think so, how can you be that ignorant? Keeping fish is not wrong, killing them hordes at a time, i think that's unethical. If i can get harassed for taking a catch and release picture holding a rainbow with a finger, why would anyone on this forum call my argument juvenile? My 2 cents, i don't hate people for spearfishing, i hate the idea that it's legal to kill that many fish in one weekend....


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## Treehugnhuntr

So, If they'd gone separately and each posted a pic of 1 harvested fish each, that would be alright?


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## threshershark

I'm with you Scubadown. Why would people look at 1% of the total harvest and feel like it is having more impact than the other 99%? If overharvest is taking place, reduce the 99% and don't lose a minute's sleep over trying to cut the 1% to .8%.

The number of fish harvested by spear fishermen is small and insignificant compared to the fish harvested by traditional tackle. Fish taken during non-spawning periods would have spawned if they had survived to do so, so any mack kept by any angler is just as much of a raping.

Let's look at a similar example at Fish Lake itself. It is illegal to fish in Twin Creek, but when the trout spawn there are hoards of anglers packed in like sardines at the mouth of the creek. Why? Because fish congregate there and many spawners are taken and killed in this way.

People fish the inlets at Flaming Gorge, Strawberry, Scofield, and just about everywhere during spawning season because the big fish are there staging. Targeting the open water fringe at ice off, inlet bays during spawing season, striper boils, etc. is commonplace in all kinds of fishing and NO DIFFERENT than this case.



elkmaster said:


> ( Subjective, no data of to back that up)!


My understanding, as Wyo mentioned, is that trophy lake trout populations have stayed stable in Fish Lake for the past 25 years, and that spearfishing has a neglibible impact to the populations.

The difference is this: Usually when a traditional angler posts a photo of a nice catch, it's just him and a fish. What if someone posted a photo showing the 700+ macks harvested in the last year by traditional anglers? The small few taken by our spearfishing friends would pale into insiginificance -- which is in actual fact the case. There's just something about seeing a photo in which several appear at the same time that causes unjustified emotional reactions.

That's not the only point either. When the Macks are at 100 feet, a traditional angler can jig or use a downrigger for them with a lovely beverage in one hand and the music volume in the other. If you want to free dive spearfish for macks, it's all but pitch dark at that depth and very few people can even effectively free dive that deep. It's only humanly possible to engage in this sport when the fish are shallower and it can be done safely without the risks of shallow water black out etc.


----------



## Nueces

Well, if it is a legal means of taking fish and they didn't violate any game laws there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Initially I thought it was illegal to spear fish. So research is due on my part before posting.

Probably one thing to remember is there are more groups totally opposed to any outdoor sporting events (fishing and hunting), so fragmentation within is bad.

I have seen other states and regions get fragmented on the type of archery hunting. Those groups should support each other. With fishing, some will fly fish and others will bait fish. In this case spear fishing.

I think more of an opposition should be posted to poaching and illegal game activities that take away from those legally enjoying the outdoors.


----------



## scubadown16

Would this picture make you feel better???

I don't go to Fish lake but maybe once a year. Most of what I do is for putting fish on my dinner table for my kids and family to enjoy. You may choose to fish for fun or "Sport" And I applaude you Chris for releasing most if not all your fish. But because I hunt for food which happens to be a fish you prize. Your trying to take food out of my kids mouth. What if the shoe was on the other foot. What if I tried to take food out of your mouth or your kids mouth. How would you feel? You say that your ok with us doing this in other times of the year. Just not during the spawn... I am sure that this is do to the illusion that these fish are just laying on the bottom and we are just putting our spears to them and pulling the trigger. This is totally not the case. These fish are free swimming and are not in a weakend state. I am happy to take some video footage and post it for you to show what we see. 

James Hardesty


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## rick_rudder

this isnt a report at all and im tired of reading about it. they should move this to a discussion


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## elkmaster

The problem I have with this situation is the selective nature of harvest we have when spear fishing. Yes, I agree a one time deal at fishlake probably won't create a dramatic decrease in the overall population of lake trout; it will, if continued year after year, have a lasting effect on the overall age class of the lake trout and splake and could effect other aspects.

Here is a situation: lets say that this situation becomes a yearly tradition for a larger number or lets say someone stays 2 weeks spearfishing everyday or even a week. They end up harvesting two 10-20 lb fish every day for 7 days. Then every year a group continues to do this. The group grows larger. The impacts for future populations of lake trout is huge. This year 29 mature fish were harvested by a fairly small number of people. Imagine if that group even doubles. That is a lot of mature fish that get harvested in a two day time.

There needs to be better regulation and rules regarding the management of these fish while spawning and there will be some.

And I just found out that Lake Trout *ARE the *most sensitive trout species. Just found that out. It seems little disturbances in water temp, pollution and over fishing effect lake trout the most followed by brook trout.

http://books.google.com/books?id=aO...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result


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## FLYFSHR

I was hoping to stay outtta this one.
That picture actually would make most of us happy though. 

Without taking any sides here, I see one flaw with your post


scubadown16 said:


> But because I hunt for food which happens to be a fish you prize. Your trying to take food out of my kids mouth. What if the shoe was on the other foot. What if I tried to take food out of your mouth or your kids mouth. How would you feel?
> James Hardesty


I fish out of state alot myself and I can tell you I spend a crap load of money doing it. Point being: Gas and trip fare easily outweighs table fare.

I think my only worry was just mentioned by elkmaster. What if the popularity of this sport boomed?
With the ease of selective harvest (I'm assuming because your good at :wink: ) can a lake like this still produce at the rate it does? 
I would think if a trend started with enough exceptional trips like that, a lake would bust about as fast as the sport boomed.

Again just a concern here not an argument


----------



## .45

Spearfishing in groups in not something new to Utah or Fish Lake. My sister, who is much older than I am was scuba diving and spearfishing Fish Lake and Bear Lake in the late '60's. These where actual classes that were taught through BYU. So spearfishing at Fish Lake is not something that is becoming a fast, booming sport. James post a few picture's making people decide this is a bad thing. Big deal !! 

I say more power to you scubadown, it's something you enjoy, it's legal, and ethical. A different form of fishing than we're to seeing on this forum, share more with us. I enjoy reading about it.


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## scubadown16

I hope that they don't move this from here. Or lock it up. I like reading everyones answers and discussion points...

I will try and answer as many questions as I know... 

One... This sport is not that common in areas that don't have an ocean near by... I have been competing in competitions for 12 years. I have never seen a freshwater tournament with huge numbers of divers... Usually we see 15 to 25 divers. Mostly new guys looking to get into the sport. There are several of us that are Pro's and do this all over the United states. I don't think your going to see huge crowds of divers flocking to Fish lake. Trust me. Even some of the guys who were there this past weekend said that it was so cold and hard for them to dive that they will stick with warmer waters from now on. 

I hope to raise awareness about spearfishing in a possitive light. I hope that I can work with the DNR and give them the information they need to make a rational judgement on what our rules should be. Not based on speculations. 

Being that alot of you are reading this stuff. I challenge you to find 5 people you work with or see regularly on a daily basis. That even know what spearfishing is... Here is what your going to get... " AAAWWW is that like throwing a stick at a fish???.." I work with lots of people and I tell them my stories all the time and I rarely find someone who knows about this sport. I think education is key. So the more this topic is talked about the more people can be informed about what it is, how its done, and things like that. Like I said before.... " Take a swim in my fins" just for a second. Try to see my point of view...

Here are some pics from under water... I know some are ocean fish taken. The walleye was released. I decided to wait on another walleye... So you can see that not all fish are shot. 

James Hardesty


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## fixed blade XC-3

.45 said:


> Spearfishing in groups in not something new to Utah or Fish Lake. * My sister, who is much older than I am was scuba diving and spearfishing Fish Lake and Bear Lake in the late '60's.* These wear actual classes that were taught through BYU. So spearfishing at Fish Lake is not something that is becoming a fast, booming sport. James post a few picture's making people decide this is a bad thing. Big deal !!
> 
> I say more power to you scubadown, it's something you enjoy, it's legal, and ethical. A different form of fishing than we're to seeing on this forum, share more with us. I enjoy reading about it.


Scuba gear was around clear back then. :shock: , Next thing you'll be telling me is man landed on the moon in the same decade. :roll: 

*
WE LANDED ON THE MOOOOON!!!!!*


----------



## mjschijf

fixed blade said:


> WE LANDED ON THE MOOOOON!!!!!


No Way...THAT'S GREAT!!!! -_O-

Leave it to fixed blade to add a little Dumb and Dumber humor to a serious thread...I love it.


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## RynoUT

Now I'm mad :evil: ...These guys come and kill all these fish :evil: .....................................................and I trolled around all day watching those guys bob around in the water and didn't catch a thing :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Christopher30

I see valid points made by both sides, but i still say it needs to be regulated summer months only. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, i'm just saying you should'nt be able to waylay the macs when they're trying to make more macs. I know alot of people spearfish there, i just have never seen so many people kill so many trophy macs in one day and i don't agree with it. The end


----------



## El Sombrero

I don't post here very often. I run utahfishingtalk.com, and I do my thing and you guys do yours.

But this has made me so angry that I have to come here and ask the guy that was doing the spear fishing: WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS DURING THE SPAWN?

I'll tell you why, it was a deliberate, planned attack to kill these fish when they were at their most vulnerable. You couldn't do this in July or August. You waited until these fish were shallow and lethargic. I don't care if you hold your breath and swim. You are the most unethical kind of "sportsman". You are basically a predator. As far as the argument that you hunt to feed your family, I call that a load of crap. If it is true, you are not a very smart consumer. For what you spend on gas, food, equipment, licenses, etc, you could buy far more groceries at Albertson's.

Rest assured, when I get done publicizing this abortion and get the local population (Utah taxpayers) to start leaning on the DWR, you won't be back to do it again.

Please email Mike Ottenbacher (Regional Aquatics Program Manager) to express your disgust.

[email protected]


----------



## .45

Holy crap bud !!??

Course they couldn't do this in July or August, the mac's are down 100 feet plus !! What's the difference if he did it in the spring during and after ice-off ? Would that make you feel better ? 

Maybe, just maybe, it was due to scheduling with the other group member's. 

El Sombrero, I think you're way out of line here. But, if you feel that strongly about this, let us know what the DWR says.

Thanks for the post, I will e-mail Mike, and let him know that I feel these guy's are fully in their rights !!


----------



## El Sombrero

.45 said:


> Holy crap bud !!??
> 
> Course they couldn't do this in July or August, the mac's are down 100 feet plus !! What's the difference if he did it in the spring during and after ice-off ? Would that make you feel better ?
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, it was due to scheduling with the other group member's.
> 
> El Sombrero, I think you're way out of line here. But, if you feel that strongly about this, let us know what the DWR says.
> 
> Thanks for the post, I will e-mail Mike, and let him know that I feel these guy's are fully in their rights !!


As a matter of fact I would feel better about it. Sorry you don't get the point.


----------



## CRH

Christopher30 said:


> I see valid points made by both sides, but i still say it needs to be regulated summer months only. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, i'm just saying you should'nt be able to waylay the macs when they're trying to make more macs. I know alot of people spearfish there, i just have never seen so many people kill so many trophy macs in one day and i don't agree with it. The end


OK, I am tired of hearing this reasoning/excuse. First of all, it is not like they are laying/sleeping on the bottom in 2 foot of water or just lazily swimming around in shallow water. These are as you say "old" fish, they would be old if they werent experienced enough to get away from threats. Just like a prized Elk or Deer, they are very intelligent. Not stupid. They may be in a little shallower water than in the summer but that doesnt mean they are on the bank waiting to be shot and or just looking right at us as we drop down on them and they dont move. That is ridiculous to even think something like that. Have any of you actually been under the freezing water in Fish Lake or anywhere for that matter. Well we have, you have to hunt these fish just like you have to hunt any other trophy animal. They didnt get big waiting around for a predator to eat them or kill them. 
Second, the season is open during the summer, they are indeed deeper during these months. Just about every contestant in the tournament is SCUBA certified. It is legal to shoot fish also on SCUBA. We all have gear to use. So if they wanted to they could easily put on SCUBA, drop down to 100 plus feet and shoot even larger Splakes and Lakes. Many of these guys have dove over 200 feet to take trophy fish, it isnt hard for them to do. 
It just so happened that a group of talented divers showed up to compete in a tournament and landed some impressive fish that H&L fisherman drool over. I dont see why someone would put down another fisherman for landing some fish that most of you would love to land. 
How a fish taste is subjective, just because some of you think it doesnt taste good doesnt mean someone else cant like it. I promise you the only fish that were wasted during this tournament was the 175+ carp and suckers that were eradicated from Fish Lake. Some people eat Carp, that doesnt mean you have too. 
Believe me there were many fish that were not shot. I personally seen 4-5 Lake and Splake that would easily be a world/state record but didnt shoot them because I already had my limit. 
The "release and catch" method is our way of your catch and release. We shoot them but then release them, how you ask. With a camera! We dont shoot everything with a gun. We are passionate about fishing just like most of you. If so we wouldnt have driven 10 hours to shoot some lake and splake that if we werent real fishermen we could have poached out of our local lakes. But we arent like that. We researched the regulations, bought the appropriate fishing licenses (out of state $$$$) and had a great time. That is what it was all about. Just like when you and your buddies go on a fishing trip, you want to land trophy fish, well believe it or not so did we. We stayed within the regs and had 3 DWR/DNR agents there to ensure everything was on the up and up. 
We didnt go to your backyard to try and offend anyone but rather to experience something we enjoy and we did until we got home and found out that there were so many people up in arms about the fish we landed. 
thanks to that trip my family and I will have some fish to eat this winter that is not processed and sent to the USA from China or somewhere else. We appreciate all the feedback but just wish some of you would open your minds and realize "there is more than one way to skin a cat". I hope I didnt offend anyone, that wasnt my intentions. I just had to speak my mind because reading alot of negative feedback and rude comments about something I am very passionate about is hard to swallow. Take care and if you have any questions about this, hit me up. 
Thanks, 
Chad


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

CRH said:


> OK, I am tired of hearing this reasoning/excuse. First of all, it is not like they are laying/sleeping on the bottom in 2 foot of water or just lazily swimming around in shallow water.


It must not be that hard to get them with a spear. Almost everyone of you has 2 over 15 pounders in the picture. I've probably put in 500 hours and haven't caught one yet.

You notice you never see a group of anglers with a lot that size.

I'm just sayin.... You're making it seem like this is hard to do.


----------



## CRH

El Sombrero said:


> I don't post here very often. I run utahfishingtalk.com, and I do my thing and you guys do yours.
> 
> But this has made me so angry that I have to come here and ask the guy that was doing the spear fishing: WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS DURING THE SPAWN?
> 
> I'll tell you why, it was a deliberate, planned attack to kill these fish when they were at their most vulnerable. You couldn't do this in July or August. You waited until these fish were shallow and lethargic. I don't care if you hold your breath and swim. You are the most unethical kind of "sportsman". You are basically a predator. As far as the argument that you hunt to feed your family, I call that a load of crap. If it is true, you are not a very smart consumer. For what you spend on gas, food, equipment, licenses, etc, you could buy far more groceries at Albertson's.
> 
> Rest assured, when I get done publicizing this abortion and get the local population (Utah taxpayers) to start leaning on the DWR, you won't be back to do it again.
> 
> Please email Mike Ottenbacher (Regional Aquatics Program Manager) to express your disgust.
> 
> [email protected]


From reading this it is probably better that you dont post your closeminded thoughts on here often. Of course it was planned. Have you ever seen or heard of a tournament that wanst. Wouldnt be a very productive tourney if it wasnt. He didnt say ot was cheaper for him to drive to Utah to catch fish for his family did he? I think he said he hunts to put food on the table like most of the people on here do. I guess it only makes sense to do this if you stay in your own state? I guess you never leave Utah? If so then why? Cant you do and get everything you need at Wal mart or somehwere in Utah? NOt a valid point by any means. 
What exactly makes this unethical? Because you dont do it or your buddies? If it is the whole spawning issue please read my previous post. It can be done in July/August, I promise you that. I can personally freedive 80' plus but these guys can SCUBA well over 200. So please save that argument.


----------



## CRH

fixed blade said:


> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I am tired of hearing this reasoning/excuse. First of all, it is not like they are laying/sleeping on the bottom in 2 foot of water or just lazily swimming around in shallow water.
> 
> 
> 
> It must not be that hard to get them with a spear. Almost everyone of you has 2 over 15 pounders in the picture. I've probably put in 500 hours and haven't caught one yet.
> 
> You notice you never see a group of anglers with a lot that size.
> 
> I'm just sayin.... You're making it seem like this is hard to do.
Click to expand...

Man it is very hard, we have been doing this for many years all over the world. I challenge any of you that think this is easy to try this style of fishing. It is not grab a spear, go underwater, shoot, land fish. It takes training, skill and practice just like any kind of fishing/hunting.


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

CRH said:


> fixed blade said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I am tired of hearing this reasoning/excuse. First of all, it is not like they are laying/sleeping on the bottom in 2 foot of water or just lazily swimming around in shallow water.
> 
> 
> 
> It must not be that hard to get them with a spear. Almost everyone of you has 2 over 15 pounders in the picture. I've probably put in 500 hours and haven't caught one yet.
> 
> You notice you never see a group of anglers with a lot that size.
> 
> I'm just sayin.... You're making it seem like this is hard to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Man it is very hard, we have been doing this for many years all over the world. I challenge any of you that think this is easy to try this style of fishing. It is not grab a spear, go underwater, shoot, land fish. It takes training, skill and practice just like any kind of fishing/hunting.
Click to expand...

OK. I'm in. When we going?


----------



## .45

fixed blade said:


> OK. I'm in. When we going?


You don't listen very well fixed....you just don't get it do you ?? :? :lol:

This is what you'll need to wear, this was my sister's.


----------



## CRH

.45 said:


> [quote="fixed blade":3ky0g4do]
> 
> OK. I'm in. When we going?


You don't listen very well fixed....you just don't get it do you ?? :? :lol:

This is what you'll need to wear, this was my sister's.[/quote:3ky0g4do]
:lol: That would be great if you used that. I would like to try it myself. :!: Not really, but I am serious if you would like to try it sometime. We are always glad to introduce new people to our fishing style. Dont know that I will be going to Fish Lake to do it, but I am more than glad to have you guys come learn at a local CO lake or even middle grounds, Wyoming! :mrgreen:


----------



## El Sombrero

CRH said:


> El Sombrero said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't post here very often. I run utahfishingtalk.com, and I do my thing and you guys do yours.
> 
> But this has made me so angry that I have to come here and ask the guy that was doing the spear fishing: WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS DURING THE SPAWN?
> 
> I'll tell you why, it was a deliberate, planned attack to kill these fish when they were at their most vulnerable. You couldn't do this in July or August. You waited until these fish were shallow and lethargic. I don't care if you hold your breath and swim. You are the most unethical kind of "sportsman". You are basically a predator. As far as the argument that you hunt to feed your family, I call that a load of crap. If it is true, you are not a very smart consumer. For what you spend on gas, food, equipment, licenses, etc, you could buy far more groceries at Albertson's.
> 
> Rest assured, when I get done publicizing this abortion and get the local population (Utah taxpayers) to start leaning on the DWR, you won't be back to do it again.
> 
> Please email Mike Ottenbacher (Regional Aquatics Program Manager) to express your disgust.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> From reading this it is probably better that you dont post your closeminded thoughts on here often. Of course it was planned. Have you ever seen or heard of a tournament that wanst. Wouldnt be a very productive tourney if it wasnt. He didnt say ot was cheaper for him to drive to Utah to catch fish for his family did he? I think he said he hunts to put food on the table like most of the people on here do. I guess it only makes sense to do this if you stay in your own state? I guess you never leave Utah? If so then why? Cant you do and get everything you need at Wal mart or somehwere in Utah? NOt a valid point by any means.
> What exactly makes this unethical? Because you dont do it or your buddies? If it is the whole spawning issue please read my previous post. It can be done in July/August, I promise you that. I can personally freedive 80' plus but these guys can SCUBA well over 200. So please save that argument.
Click to expand...

I have a real problem with this whole thing. I'll tell you why.

There are two bodies of water in this state that produce lakers of that size: Fishlake and the Gorge.

You get a group of people that come here and take more big fish in one day that most people that actually fish for them catch in a whole year. And all of the dedicated mac fishermen I know release the fish.

Now that word of this has gotten out, guess what's going to happen? More people are going to come here and take more fish and it's going to become more popular. Face it, places where you can "catch" a fish like this are few and far between. Before long, there won't be any. Or **** few at best.

Another prized fishery down the toilet. Why aren't they up at the gorge where they are begging to be rid of lake trout?

Legal it may be, ethical it is not.


----------



## CRH

El Sombrero said:


> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> El Sombrero":3j0kexai]I don't post here very often. I run utahfishingtalk.com said:
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected][/email]
> 
> 
> 
> From reading this it is probably better that you dont post your closeminded thoughts on here often. Of course it was planned. Have you ever seen or heard of a tournament that wanst. Wouldnt be a very productive tourney if it wasnt. He didnt say ot was cheaper for him to drive to Utah to catch fish for his family did he? I think he said he hunts to put food on the table like most of the people on here do. I guess it only makes sense to do this if you stay in your own state? I guess you never leave Utah? If so then why? Cant you do and get everything you need at Wal mart or somehwere in Utah? NOt a valid point by any means.
> What exactly makes this unethical? Because you dont do it or your buddies? If it is the whole spawning issue please read my previous post. It can be done in July/August, I promise you that. I can personally freedive 80' plus but these guys can SCUBA well over 200. So please save that argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a real problem with this whole thing. I'll tell you why.
> 
> There are two bodies of water in this state that produce lakers of that size: Fishlake and the Gorge.
> 
> You get a group of people that come here and take more big fish in one day that most people that actually fish for them catch in a whole year. And all of the dedicated mac fishermen I know release the fish.
> 
> Now that word of this has gotten out, guess what's going to happen? More people are going to come here and take more fish and it's going to become more popular. Face it, places where you can "catch" a fish like this are few and far between. Before long, there won't be any. Or **** few at best.
> 
> Another prized fishery down the toilet. Why aren't they up at the gorge where they are begging to be rid of lake trout?
> 
> Legal it may be, ethical it is not.[/quote:3j0kexai]
> First of all there arent that many spearos in this area to even dent the splake/mack/trout population. We made one trip and only planned on one trip. YOu seem to overlook the number of invasive species that we eradicated while there. YOur tunnel vision has you locked in on one point, we took more nice/trophy fish than most H&L fishermen can. Is that our fault? No, I can send you a link to where you and your buddies can purchase all the dive gear you want, sounds like you have afishing license, then you and your buddies can take some nice fish and quit whinning about it.
> I believe others do spear Gorge, we havent but thought about it. No reason we havent besides we cant afford to pack up, rent a cabin, drive 10 hours every weekend. The only fish we would like to "be rid of" is the invasive species.
> So you are now the ethical police? Dont think so.
Click to expand...


----------



## El Sombrero

My tunnel vision has me locked into one point alright: 
*Making sure this does not happen again.*

It is my winter project.


----------



## CRH

El Sombrero said:


> My tunnel vision has me locked into one point alright:
> *Making sure this does not happen again.*
> 
> It is my winter project.


Whatever floats your boat. have you thought about getting a life? Thats a good hobby all year long.


----------



## Gameface

I think a lot of people are having an irrational, emotional, overreaction to these fish being killed. There were 13 fish killed!

*13 fish*

A whole bunch of guys came up for 2 days. They enjoyed our Lake, they had a great time fishing, they got some very nice fish.

Lets get a report from every person criticizing on how many fish they killed this year. Lets see how many fish the people who post on this forum took out of the lakes this year. I bet you it'll be a few more than 13.

If everyone who thinks that what these people did was wrong is trying to make the argument that fish should never be killed, go right on ahead and keep talking. You're all doing a whole lot of good for the fishing/hunting communities. Congratulations


----------



## CRH

Gameface said:


> I think a lot of people are having an irrational, emotional, overreaction to these fish being killed. There were 13 fish killed!
> 
> *13 fish*
> 
> A whole bunch of guys came up for 2 days. They enjoyed our Lake, they had a great time fishing, they got some very nice fish.
> 
> Lets get a report from every person criticizing on how many fish they killed this year. Lets see how many fish the people who post on this forum took out of the lakes this year. I bet you it'll be a few more than 13.
> 
> If everyone who thinks that what these people did was wrong is trying to make the argument that fish should never be killed, go right on ahead and keep talking. You're all doing a whole lot of good for the fishing/hunting communities. Congratulations


I agree Game, 
I wanted to make sure youknow that was estimated two day catch of Lake/Macks. There were 15 competitors, two days of diving. There were about maybe the same amount of splake taken as well. Which is still not that significant. 
Thanks for your understanding


----------



## CRH

El Sombrero said:


> My tunnel vision has me locked into one point alright:
> *Making sure this does not happen again.*
> 
> It is my winter project.


SO are you saying that if we came up in August and landed the same amount of fish you wouldnt be throwing a fit like a 2 year old? 
Like I said, it may have been worse if we did, larger ones are deeper and we can dive to the bottom of that lake.
I want an honest answer, because I dont think it is the Oct/spawn issue at all.


----------



## element

I have seen this since I started diving in SoCal when I was 16. I have seen it in Hawaii. Its nothing new. There will always be people who dont understand freedive spearfishing. Those who think its cheating or easy. 

There is a quote from a movie called Blue Water Hunters. It goes something like this...
"I am from a race of hunters, and there is no place for hunters left in this world."

When I hear the angry complaints of others about spearfishing that rings in my head.

I have kept quiet and laid low, but I need to stick up for the sport I love. So here it goes...

1 - It was done legally.

2 - I personally feel there isn't much of a difference in taking a fish earlier in the year or later in the year. The only difference is the fish had one more season before it spawned. Keep in mind these were pre-spawn fish, not post-spawn so they wernt all tired and just sitting there after they released their eggs. All the fish I saw were moving fast. Oh yeah, I saw many other big fish swimming around. Guys there are plenty of fish in the lake.

3 - It takes skill and hard work to find, stalk, and hunt these fish. (50 degree water, 30-35 degrees outside, rain, snow, wind, diving to 40 feet on a single breath of air for longer than a minute at altitudes of 8800 feet to shoot a fish of a lifetime? Please tell me how this is easy? This fish didn't just sit there, it was moving fast and all I had was a breath of air hoping I didn't black out.) 

4 - Carp eat way more lake trout eggs than the few fish that might have spawned that we took this weekend. Why was the carp eradication not mentioned??? How nice of these divers to take out carp. We could have easily just shot trout and left, but we understand the ecology. We understand that carp are the most detrimental thing to the game fish in the lakes and reservoirs here in North America. We helped the lake trout population out this year by taking well over a hundred carp out of that lake that would have been feeding on the newly hatched lake trout eggs. 

5 - DWR was there and they made sure we did everything right. No laws were broken. The DWR checked lengths and limits.

6 - I will probably never shoot another Lake Trout for years if ever. I have been able to take a trophy fish and I know it and don't take it for granted. I have been a rod and reel fisherman for over 20 years. Diving for 16. How long does it take before you earn the right to take a trophy fish?

7 - This tournament made freedive spearfishing look larger than it is. There are just a hand full of us spearfisherman here in Utah and a few from nearby states. None of the divers had dove or taken fish from fish lake this year. Most wont make it back. Was it bad they took one or two? They brought money to the economy and the DWR. 

Lets worry about the carp eradication, the poaching, and the illegal activities. Why such hatred toward someone who follows the law?

Hopefully these few points will help educate those who dont understand the sport and our form of taking fish to the dinner table. 

Regards,
Cory


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## CRH

Very well said. I did mention that we took over 175 carp/suckers. No one has yet to applaud the efforts of that mission. I dont expect them too but it does seem very one sided. 
I am another one that will probably never shoot a large Mac/Lake/Splake again even though the only one I shot was only 8lbs. It was enough for me and a great experience. 
I applaud you Cory for stepping up to assist in trying to educate the H&L fishermen on our style of fishing/hunting. 

I too seen many much larger Lake/Splake/Macs swimming around and quickly may I add.
Chad


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## El Sombrero

CRH said:


> El Sombrero said:
> 
> 
> 
> My tunnel vision has me locked into one point alright:
> *Making sure this does not happen again.*
> 
> It is my winter project.
> 
> 
> 
> SO are you saying that if we came up in August and landed the same amount of fish you wouldnt be throwing a fit like a 2 year old?
> Like I said, it may have been worse if we did, larger ones are deeper and we can dive to the bottom of that lake.
> I want an honest answer, because I dont think it is the Oct/spawn issue at all.
Click to expand...

If you did this in August, you probably wouldn't have scored like you did. And yes, I would have felt better about it.

October is the spawn month for lakers and I dare say you didn't anyone up there fishing for them. That's because WE LEAVE THEM ALONE DURING THE SPAWN BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THEY MAKE MORE LITTLE MACS.

You come here, kill 13 lakers (that by the way, any self respecting mack fisherman would have thrown those fish back), and go back to Colorado. Hooray for you.

Hope you enjoyed it. It's not going to happen again.


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## FLYFSHR

CRH said:


> Very well said. I did mention that we took over 175 carp/suckers. No one has yet to applaud the efforts of that mission. I dont expect them too but it does seem very one sided.


You obviously missed my earlier post


FLYFSHR said:


> That picture actually would make most of us happy though.


If this sport is so valuable to some, then why not stick it to the "problem" fish. After all, it's all about the fun right? Maybe next time just post about the carp and see how many atta boys you get :lol:


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## CRH

El Sombrero said:


> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote="El Sombrero":blw4q6tq]My tunnel vision has me locked into one point alright:
> *Making sure this does not happen again.*
> 
> It is my winter project.
> 
> 
> 
> SO are you saying that if we came up in August and landed the same amount of fish you wouldnt be throwing a fit like a 2 year old?
> Like I said, it may have been worse if we did, larger ones are deeper and we can dive to the bottom of that lake.
> I want an honest answer, because I dont think it is the Oct/spawn issue at all.
Click to expand...

If you did this in August, you probably wouldn't have scored like you did. And yes, I would have felt better about it.

October is the spawn month for lakers and I dare say you didn't anyone up there fishing for them. That's because WE LEAVE THEM ALONE DURING THE SPAWN BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THEY MAKE MORE LITTLE MACS.

You come here, kill 13 lakers (that by the way, any self respecting mack fisherman would have thrown those fish back), and go back to Colorado. Hooray for you.

Hope you enjoyed it. It's not going to happen again.[/quote:blw4q6tq]

Oh yeah, what about this"Re: Fishlake Spearfishing Massacre"
by RynoUT on Oct 09, '08, 8:12

Now I'm mad ...These guys come and kill all these fish .....................................................and I trolled around all day watching those guys bob around in the water and didn't catch a thing 
RynoUT

Posts: 78
Joined: Feb 15, '08, 10:26 
Private message

and he wasnt the only H&L there. So you may want to rethink your statements. And if youthink we couldnt have scored even larger fish in the summer you are very nieve.


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## CRH

FLYFSHR said:


> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very well said. I did mention that we took over 175 carp/suckers. No one has yet to applaud the efforts of that mission. I dont expect them too but it does seem very one sided.
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously missed my earlier post
> 
> 
> FLYFSHR said:
> 
> 
> 
> That picture actually would make most of us happy though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If this sport is so valuable to some, then why not stick it to the "problem" fish. After all, it's all about the fun right? Maybe next time just post about the carp and see how many atta boys you get :lol:
Click to expand...

Sorry I did see that, I apologize. But why wouled we limit our selfs to hunting something we dont eat at all? We see taking the carp/suckers other invasive as a huge bonus, but hey we have rights too. We also like to eat fish, suprise. 
That would be me like asking a rifle hunter to only shoot varmits, (coyotes, racoons etc,) not going to happen.


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## El Sombrero

Oh yeah, what about this"Re: Fishlake Spearfishing Massacre"
by RynoUT on Oct 09, '08, 8:12

Now I'm mad ...These guys come and kill all these fish .....................................................and I trolled around all day watching those guys bob around in the water and didn't catch a thing
RynoUT

Posts: 78
Joined: Feb 15, '08, 10:26
Private message

and he wasnt the only H&L there. So you may want to rethink your statements. And if youthink we couldnt have scored even larger fish in the summer you are very nieve.

Well, if he hadn't figured it out yet, he soon will. They don't eat much while spawning.


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## CRH

El Sombrero said:


> Oh yeah, what about this"Re: Fishlake Spearfishing Massacre"
> by RynoUT on Oct 09, '08, 8:12
> 
> Now I'm mad ...These guys come and kill all these fish .....................................................and I trolled around all day watching those guys bob around in the water and didn't catch a thing
> RynoUT
> 
> Posts: 78
> Joined: Feb 15, '08, 10:26
> Private message
> 
> and he wasnt the only H&L there. So you may want to rethink your statements. And if youthink we couldnt have scored even larger fish in the summer you are very nieve.
> 
> Well, if he hadn't figured it out yet, he soon will. They don't eat much while spawning.


accepted.


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## Nibble Nuts

To CRH, element and the rest of your gang:
Your sport looks awesome! I hope that one day I will have the time and money to start spearfishing myself. It looks like a riveting and more primal way to fish. You have my admiration on this. Thanks for ridding the many lakes that you visit of hundreds of carp. I hate carp. Sorry about the flak that many have given you here and on BFT. I can't believe the one guy who is actually looking for technicalities to turn you guys in for over on BFT. Stay strong guys. Hopefully someday I can join the spearfishing community.


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## CRH

Nibble Nuts said:


> To CRH, element and the rest of your gang:
> Your sport looks awesome! I hope that one day I will have the time and money to start spearfishing myself. It looks like a riveting and more primal way to fish. You have my admiration on this. Thanks for ridding the many lakes that you visit of hundreds of carp. I hate carp. Sorry about the flak that many have given you here and on BFT. I can't believe the one guy who is actually looking for technicalities to turn you guys in for over on BFT. Stay strong guys. Hopefully someday I can join the spearfishing community.


Thanks for the kudos. We do kill a lot of invasive species from lakes all around the mid west. I would guess we killed well over 3000 carp and other invasives this season alone. (June-Oct).
If you get ready hit us up, like I said before we love to introduce people to this method of fishing/hunting. It is definitly more primal and we are just as passionate about it as H&L guys about their specific fish/styles. 
Thanks again
Chad
that avatar is hilarious!


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## mjschijf

I just wanted to say that I've seen some very good arguments on both sides of this issue. Although my reaction when I first saw this thread was one of disgust, I can now see that it just isn't a method of fishing that I'm used to. Also, I'm not used to seeing a group of people harvest SO MANY huge fish in such a short period of time. It is just unfamiliar territory for me. This is why I used words like "sick" and "insane" in my first post. 

However, now that I've heard you spearfishing folks chime in to the discussion (welcome to our forum by the way), I can now see that one spearfishing tournament in a year is probably not going to ruin a fishery. However, I don't think it can be particularly GOOD for a fishery to harvest so many large, spawning Lakers and Splake (although I realize Splake cannot reproduce). That being said, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on fish populations and Fish Lake, or how many large harvested fish it takes to become a detriment to the fishery. I trust that the DWR has the current rules and regulations in effect for a reason, and that they know what they are doing by allowing a spearfishing tournament to take place. I think that the DWR wouldn't allow something like this if it was seriously damaging to the fishery. Again, I have confidence in those who make the rules, and those who know more about fish populations than me, and probably 99% of the people on this forum. I think the DWR does a great job in managing our fisheries here in Utah, and I have no reason to believe why they would betray us with Fish Lake. 

I can see how people find spearfishing to be fun. I don't think I could see myself doing it, but I'm not going to judge those that do. As long as they are abiding the law, I don't think we should bash them for what they do. 

In any case, many people have brought up some great points. Maybe we can get someone from the DWR on here to talk about the spearfishing tournament and whether or not it will actually have a significant effect on the fish populations at Fish Lake. I think a logical explanation from an expert would make a lot of people feel better.


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## XxFIREBOYxX

"Nibble Nuts wrote:
To CRH, element and the rest of your gang:
Your sport looks awesome! I hope that one day I will have the time and money to start spearfishing myself. It looks like a riveting and more primal way to fish. You have my admiration on this. Thanks for ridding the many lakes that you visit of hundreds of carp. I hate carp. Sorry about the flak that many have given you here. Hopefully someday I can join the spearfishing community."

I've dove once and it was was hard and I didn't get a thing! I commend them for all their hard work and the TALENT that they have to take some nice fish! Your sport is new and there are some closed minded people I hope that they realize that what you guys do is a SPORT!! Thanks for the pictures and although I am jealous of the fish you guys caught i'm glad you enjoyed our lake! Can't wait to see future stories and pictures! ! BTW thanks for making those carp plant food


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## flydaddy834

carp hek yes spawning lakers no way... my opinion of this is kinda crazy. why not stick a big cherry bom or two and call that a sport. my only words would be leave the spawning big lakers to do what they do best and that is reproduce so fishlake can be a trophy place for people here in utah for hundreds of years to come. thats the only thing wrong. or maybe the guys spear fishing see that they can take so many big fish cut it down to a reasonable number not everyone has to come out with a 15lb laker or do they. legal now yes would i like to see it not legal hek ya. or maybe they need regs like strawberry, daniels, minerville, some really good waters here in utah have them (minus daniels) . look at the regs there barbless no bait and single hook and nothing under 20. i dont know if those were spawning lake trout but if they were shame on someone. i would love to see someone get involved on this and put some breaks on it.


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## megalodon

Having grown up in the Fishlake area and fished it all my life I call it home. So, I'd find this upsetting regardless of the method or time of the year. I have "harvested" 1 mackinaw over 10 pounds from Fishlake in over 40 years fishing there. To this day, I still regret killing that fish. I'm not saying that I haven't taken smaller ones ,1-5 lbs, and eaten them. I'm just saying that first: that fish *was* old. -argue the age all you want- and second: don't tell me that you're taking macks that size just to eat. Large macks taste lousy and well, we don't call 'em "oil cans" for nothing. It's all about the trophy which is what has become wrong with most of the way people hunt and fish. It's not just about putting food on the table. It's about greed. Plain and simple. Legal or not, ethics have to come into play sometime. I can agree that spear fishermen do remove hundreds of "trash fish". For that, you have my thanks. For those of you who don't think this has become an annual thing, you'd better think again. There are several local groups who do this on a regular basis. There will be a negative impact. Please don't use the "Well we hunt during the rut for deer and elk all the time." argument either. In Utah, the rut hunts for deer and elk, if they exist at all, are limited entry and very highly regulated. The numbers actually harvested are small. Just my 2 cents.


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## takemefishin

i have just 1 question for the spear fishing guys 

what do you do with the carp that you do remove from these lakes?


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## wyoming2utah

Christopher30 said:


> I see valid points made by both sides, but i still say it needs to be regulated summer months only. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, i'm just saying you should'nt be able to waylay the macs when they're trying to make more macs. I know alot of people spearfish there, i just have never seen so many people kill so many trophy macs in one day and i don't agree with it. The end


What does it matter when those fish are harvested? Would it change anything if they harvested the same number of fish over a 1 month period?

By the way, as I mentioned before, harvesting the big lake trout during the spawn will NOT affect the population at all...in fact, with the total increase of lakers in the lake the past 10-20 years, it could have a positive effect.



Christopher30 said:


> Those fish take years to grow that size, and to shoot them for a sport is sickening to me. That lake is not that big, i'll bet you a few of those now dead macks has been caught by a seasoned angler and released for someone younger to enjoy. That plan was sadly kaboshed when a spear hit them broadside while they were trying to make more lake trout, something they have a hard enough time doing without being shot at.
> Whoever was stupid enough to say that fishing for trophy macks and spearfishing for them are the same thing, heres a picture for you. If these guys would've caught this fish would it have been heading back down to eat some more chubs? Don't think so, how can you be that ignorant? Keeping fish is not wrong, killing them hordes at a time, i think that's unethical.


How many years does it take for fish to grow to that size? Did you know that the 20-22 inch macks in the lake now could make the transition to 30+ inches in less than 2 years if they simply start eating rainbows? I think you vastly overestimate the time it takes for other lake trout to replace those harvested. Also, FWIW, there are very few chubs left in Fish Lake. There principal forage fish are rainbows...so, the fish you are releasing was probably not going to be eating too many more chubs, but more rainbow trout. Don't make up some unethical notion of not releasing fish based on the lake trout controlling chubs...it isn't happening.

I bet also that a few of the lake trout you and your cronies have harvested in the past couple of years were also caught and released by other fishermen. What's your point? Is your harvesting of a trophy lake trout any different from a spear fisherman harvesting a single trophy lake trout or splake?

Just out of curiosity, how many total lake trout and splake have you and your fishing partners harvested from Fish Lake this year?

By the way, does Winston still work at Mountain America?


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## wyoming2utah

megalodon said:


> I have "harvested" 1 mackinaw over 10 pounds from Fishlake in over 40 years fishing there. To this day, I still regret killing that fish. I'm not saying that I haven't taken smaller ones ,1-5 lbs, and eaten them. I'm just saying that first: that fish *was* old. -argue the age all you want- and second: don't tell me that you're taking macks that size just to eat.
> 
> There will be a negative impact. Please don't use the "Well we hunt during the rut for deer and elk all the time." argument either. In Utah, the rut hunts for deer and elk, if they exist at all, are limited entry and very highly regulated. The numbers actually harvested are small. Just my 2 cents.


1) How do you know how old the fish was? Also, how do you know that the 1-5 pounders you have eaten were not old? Did you know that a 20 inch fish at Fish Lake can be over 20 years old and a 30+ inch fish can be less than ten?

2) Why will there be more of a negative impact when spear fishermen harvest less fish than line and rod anglers? How is it that there harvest will have a larger effect than the harvest of regular fishermen?

Also, weren't the numbers of trophy lake trout also small and very comparable to the numbers of elk killed on an LE unit? It seems you are greatly exaggerating the number of actual fish harvested and are assuming that regular anglers harvest less...which is NOT true.


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## scubadown16

Ok... 

The carp and suckers that are taken are usually turned over to a green recycling farm... There is one on the back side of Yuba resv. They get turned into fertilizer... Some have even been smoked and eaten.. Not usually but once in a while.

I too would like to have a DNR guy chim in on this...

Chad, Cory, and everyone else who is for spearfishing. Please let me say this. Everyone has a right to their opponion. As close minded as some may be. Its their right. No point in trying to change their minds. They are not going to change yours. For those that want to see us gone. And are pushing to have the rules changes.. Remember when you stir a pot of **** it often gets on everyone... So becareful what you wish for. You might see our season get extended or perhaps your season or limits could change as well. 

Whats your thoughts on walleye... I am sure we have some passoniate people on here about that fish??? 

Another pic for you all to droll about.


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## Jacksonman

I, too, want to commend some of these spearfishermen who have come on trying to defend their sport. It is a sport that obviously takes skill and sacrifice. It looks like a ton of fun and I have wanted to try it ... but in the OCEAN where there are millions of fish who can handle the pressure and who can grow big in not many years (such as yellowtail, mahi and tuna in Mexico).

Again, like I stated earlier and like what was just mentioned, hunting of prized animals in Utah, moose and elk, is highly regulated. Spearfishing" is more like "spearhunting" - YES it requires skill but it is so much easier to target and KILL large trophy macs. Can anyone rebut this statement??!! Those large fish were taken over a two day period - I wonder if that many large macs have been killed by all other fishermen at Fish Lake this whole year. 

And for everyone arguing that a 1% dent in the population is no big deal, when that 1% dent is put in by individuals who only put in .00001% of the fishing hours on that lake, that is a HUGE deal. If the sport only multiples 5x, we are talking about a 5% dent, and that 5% will be of the larger variety trophy fish. 

Again, I think the sport is awesome and really do want to try it in the ocean or for less sensitive freshwater species. But I could NEVER justify shooting large lake trout in Utah, or Colorado (to add in the out-of-state element). 

That is great that some of you recognize that you have shot a trophy and promise not to shoot another - but you CAN - you can change your mind and shoot one everyday of the season if you wanted and that is the problem. And then there are those that have no intention to stop after one trophy.

I for one, don't think that keeping one trophy is necessarily a big deal and hope to mount a few fish. But the longer I fish, the more I respect such beautiful creatures and have started to change my personal views - I now lean towards taking good pictures and releasing and getting a replica mount - depends on the species though.

Thanks for shooting the carp and I do think that is awesome and still seems like lots of fun.

No accusations of illegal activity - just questioniong ethics and the influence of the sport on two particular lakes in Utah - that is all.


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## Huge29

wyoming2utah said:


> Christopher30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see valid points made by both sides, but i still say it needs to be regulated summer months only. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, i'm just saying you should'nt be able to waylay the macs when they're trying to make more macs. I know alot of people spearfish there, i just have never seen so many people kill so many trophy macs in one day and i don't agree with it. The end
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter when those fish are harvested? Would it change anything if they harvested the same number of fish over a 1 month period?
Click to expand...

You can NOT really be serious! Right, wrong or otherwise please use some logic in your posts Christopher very clearly insinuated during the spawn! The DNR is clearly sensitive towards the spawn therefore the reason for the 7/1 tributary rule, simply more difficult to control in lakes. If you can not see the problem in killing spawning fish, I am clearly wasting my time in replying!


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## wyoming2utah

Jacksonman said:


> Those large fish were taken over a two day period - I wonder if that many large macs have been killed by all other fishermen at Fish Lake this whole year.
> 
> And for everyone arguing that a 1% dent in the population is no big deal, when that 1% dent is put in by individuals who only put in .00001% of the fishing hours on that lake, that is a HUGE deal. If the sport only multiples 5x, we are talking about a 5% dent, and that 5% will be of the larger variety trophy fish.
> 
> That is great that some of you recognize that you have shot a trophy and promise not to shoot another - but you CAN - you can change your mind and shoot one everyday of the season if you wanted and that is the problem. And then there are those that have no intention to stop after one trophy.
> 
> I for one, don't think that keeping one trophy is necessarily a big deal and hope to mount a few fish. But the longer I fish, the more I respect such beautiful creatures and have started to change my personal views - I now lean towards taking good pictures and releasing and getting a replica mount - depends on the species though.


1) I would be willing to bet that far more trophy lake trout/splake were caught by hook and line anglers than by these guys...you are grossly underestimating how many actually are caught and kept...and how many that are released actually die afterwards.

2) What does it matter how much time they put in? Harvest is harvest...I know a guy who has only fished Fish Lake one evening...ever. And, he was lucky enough to catch and harvest a 14 pound splake...does that make him unethical too?

Also, because angler harvest IS much higher than spearfishing harvest should anglers also be further limited...especially since they have a much higher number of participants? In my 30 years of fishing Fish Lake I have seen numerous trends and changes....and, I have found that the trophy fish are most vulnerable in the spring. In fact, I am not alone...the die hard lake trout fishermen pound the lake early on...and the banks are littered with fishermen in the early spring chasing the big fish that come in shallow to feed at night...should these fishermen also be limited or regulated?

3) By your line of reasoning, you would also think it is unfair/unethical for a regular fishermen to harvest more than one big lake trout in a lifetime...that is nonsense. The bottom line is that harvesting trophy lake trout at the current rate--combination of all kinds of harvest--is not going to affect the populations. I can promise you that if the DWR is seeing too much harvest by any types of fishermen, a change will be proposed. But, it is not happening.

4) I, for one, enjoy fish mounts and prefer actual skin mounts.


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## megalodon

> 1) How do you know how old the fish was? Also, how do you know that the 1-5 pounders you have eaten were not old? Did you know that a 20 inch fish at Fish Lake can be over 20 years old and a 30+ inch fish can be less than ten?
> 
> 2) Why will there be more of a negative impact when spear fishermen harvest less fish than line and rod anglers? How is it that there harvest will have a larger effect than the harvest of regular fishermen?
> 
> Also, weren't the numbers of trophy lake trout also small and very comparable to the numbers of elk killed on an LE unit? It seems you are greatly exaggerating the number of actual fish harvested and are assuming that regular anglers harvest less...which is NOT true.


Yes, I've read DNR's report on Fishlake and growth rates there. It also seems that you are unfamiliar with how the usual Fishlake mack fisherman operates as well. We don't, let me repeat, *don't* harvest big fish in large numbers or on a regular basis. Joe Schmoe fisherman doesn't go to Fishlake with the expectation or the know how to catch large macks with any consistency. So yes, regular angler do harvest less. Plus, it's already been said, Macks don't eat much during the spawn. So those of us who target the species don't fish then. And to those of us who do target them taking a dozen large macks out of Fishlake is like taking a dozen bulls out of the same canyon on an LE unit. But that's my opinion and you know how they -opinions- are... Just like b***holes. Everyone has one but not every one likes how everyone elses smells..... This is a lame argument from anyway you look at it. Scubadown has summed it up pretty well, and now it's stirred.....


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## wyoming2utah

Huge29 said:


> You can NOT really be serious! Right, wrong or otherwise please use some logic in your posts Christopher very clearly insinuated during the spawn! The DNR is clearly sensitive towards the spawn therefore the reason for the 7/1 tributary rule, simply more difficult to control in lakes. If you can not see the problem in killing spawning fish, I am clearly wasting my time in replying!


I am dead serious...I have seen the numbers of fish caught in gill nets by the DWR in the fall. I know that "Gill-net catch rates of spawning lake trout have more than doubled since 1992.." The 7/1 tributary rule has NOTHING to do with spawning lake trout....lake trout don't even spawn in the tribs at Fish Lake!

If you can't see that the killing of a few fish--not a lot but A FEW--is going to do nothing to hurt lake trout recruitment; then, it is I who is wasting my time.

I can't wait until November when I will be on Fish Lake with the DWR spawning lake trout....


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## wyoming2utah

megalodon said:


> We don't, let me repeat, *don't* harvest big fish in large numbers or on a regular basis.
> 
> So yes, regular angler do harvest less.


Hah...you don't. In fact, wasn't it you that said


megalodon said:


> I have "harvested" 1 mackinaw over 10 pounds from Fishlake in over 40 years fishing there.


?

The truth, as shown in creel surveys, is that regular hook and line anglers harvest far more than do the spearfishermen.


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## wyoming2utah

megalodon said:


> And to those of us who do target them taking a dozen large macks out of Fishlake is like taking a dozen bulls out of the same canyon on an LE unit.


Yeah...that's definitely your opinion. A better comparison, though, we be like LE hunters taking a dozen bulls off the Fish Lake unit. Fish Lake is 5.3 miles long and 1.1 miles wide and has 12.3 miles of shoreline holding in 212,500 acre-feet of water. That is a pretty good sized fishery...


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## GaryFish

> Garyfish to call my argument and from what i've heard both on forum and around town (yes it's around now) the majority's argument junvenile? Sorry, i thought the point of the forum was to express opinions, not to be called juvenile for making a pretty solid case. That is just wrong if you ask me.


The two arguments I referred to as juvenile are:
1- Its not fair that I spend many hours and never catch a big fish like that, and they spend one weekend and do - it isn't fair. Crying "its not fair" when others enjoy success and you don't - that is something first graders call all the time.

2- I don't like out of staters taking MY Utah fish. This argument comes straight from the gradeschool playground as well. This argument denies that out of state people do enjoy OUR resources, and they pay to do it, and that license an out of state person buys is just as valid as that purchased by a resident, and allows access to the same resources.

Just because a majority have expressed the same argument, doesn't make it less silly. The argument is still flawed.

If you want to argue that you don't think the activity should be legal? Fine. If you think it biologically damaging, fine - make that point. We'll all read and take part. If you think it comprimises safety of others, I think that is as valid as anything as well. But whining that "its not fair they got big fish and I didn't" is childish. In that regard, if anyone ever catches/spears a fish bigger than what I've caught, it isn't fair, and I should get to do it too. And if anyone ever kills a bigger elk/deer/whatever than I do, that isn't fair either.


----------



## El Sombrero

wyoming2utah said:


> Huge29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can NOT really be serious! Right, wrong or otherwise please use some logic in your posts Christopher very clearly insinuated during the spawn! The DNR is clearly sensitive towards the spawn therefore the reason for the 7/1 tributary rule, simply more difficult to control in lakes. If you can not see the problem in killing spawning fish, I am clearly wasting my time in replying!
> 
> 
> 
> I am dead serious...I have seen the numbers of fish caught in gill nets by the DWR in the fall. I know that "Gill-net catch rates of spawning lake trout have more than doubled since 1992.." The 7/1 tributary rule has NOTHING to do with spawning lake trout....lake trout don't even spawn in the tribs at Fish Lake!
> 
> If you can't see that the killing of a few fish--not a lot but A FEW--is going to do nothing to hurt lake trout recruitment; then, it is I who is wasting my time.
> 
> I can't wait until November when I will be on Fish Lake with the DWR spawning lake trout....
Click to expand...

Funny, according to DNR, they are not spawning lake trout this year. You may be in it alone.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

You know, I have spear fishing gear. I think I'll take my buddies and head down this weekend to fill my freezer.


----------



## Jacksonman

1) I would be willing to bet that far more trophy lake trout/splake were caught by hook and line anglers than by these guys...you are grossly underestimating how many actually are caught and kept...and how many that are released actually die afterwards.

In all the years that I have been participating in this forums, I have seen/read so few reports of big macks caught out of fish lake, and of those, only a few very kept (maybe 2 or 3). Maybe a few die after being released but nothing like the 100% mortlaity rate of spearfishing.

2) What does it matter how much time they put in? Harvest is harvest...I know a guy who has only fished Fish Lake one evening...ever. And, he was lucky enough to catch and harvest a 14 pound splake...does that make him unethical too?

Frankly, that is a dumb argument - look at the principle that spearfishing is 100's of percentages eaiser to hit and KILL trophy fish than all other angling techniques. And yes, if a new angling technique comes out that greatly increases an anglers ability to catch large trophy fish (some new scented power bait or battery operated minnow lure, etc), than the DWR should probably regulate it.

Also, because angler harvest IS much higher than spearfishing harvest should anglers also be further limited...especially since they have a much higher number of participants? In my 30 years of fishing Fish Lake I have seen numerous trends and changes....and, I have found that the trophy fish are most vulnerable in the spring. In fact, I am not alone...the die hard lake trout fishermen pound the lake early on...and the banks are littered with fishermen in the early spring chasing the big fish that come in shallow to feed at night...should these fishermen also be limited or regulated?

Still, I actually wonder how many of these spring mac chasers actually land macs half the size of those big ones caught while spearfishing. And the big diference between spearhunting and fishing is that the fishermen has to entice the fish to change its behavior to eat something artificial - the spearhunter shoots the fish.

3) By your line of reasoning, you would also think it is unfair/unethical for a regular fishermen to harvest more than one big lake trout in a lifetime...that is nonsense. The bottom line is that harvesting trophy lake trout at the current rate--combination of all kinds of harvest--is not going to affect the populations. I can promise you that if the DWR is seeing too much harvest by any types of fishermen, a change will be proposed. But, it is not happening.

Yes you are correct - I think that, personally, the harvesting of multiple trophy lake trout is unethical unless you land some sort of record. The large fish don't taste as good as the smaller ones and it makes no sense to keep them besides for bragging rights and wall mounts. Mac's are the most sensitive trout in Utah and thr truth is, it seems that we are just beginning to understand how we should be treating large macs in our Utah lakes.

I sure hope the UDWR is taking a look at the sport of freshwater mac sporthunting and I wouldn't be surprised to see some new regulations in the next year or two.

4) I, for one, enjoy fish mounts and prefer actual skin mounts.[/quote]

I do too, but I have begun to appreciate the beauty of the actual living fish too. I caught a 48"+ tiger musky that was pushing 30lbs and I let her go because it was such an amazing creature. I probably should have kept it as it was summer and she had a slimmer chance of survival, but those big fish are beautiful creatures that deserve some respect.

I should mention that I believe that the Fish Gods follow the principle of Karma.


----------



## FishlakeElkHunter

What is the difference in HUNTING ELK during the RUT.....or Fishing during the SPAWN??? All of us sure want to hunt during the RUT but no one wants to fish during the Spawn? BULL CRAP!

Sombrero.....you are crazy man! They have been Spear Fishing on Fishlake for years, and they will continue to do it for many more.

Looked like a LOT of fun to me!!!!!! I would love to give it a try.


----------



## wyoming2utah

El Sombrero said:


> Funny, according to DNR, they are not spawning lake trout this year. You may be in it alone.


That's funny...my brother specifically called and asked me if I would be able to help. I guess I shouldn't believe him.


----------



## Levy

> What is the difference in HUNTING ELK during the RUT.....or Fishing during the SPAWN??? All of us sure want to hunt during the RUT but no one wants to fish during the Spawn? BULL CRAP!


PUUUUULEEEEAAASE!!!!!!!! Quit comparing elk management to fish management. They do not relate in the slightest.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

True, elk management is much more complex.


----------



## Levy

Exactly. The last time I checked, I don't recall there being any "Elk Hatcheries."


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Oh yes, hatcheries. Mostly in place so 3 toothed bubbas and 6 year olds can catch tiger trout with power bait and wrestle them on the bank. :wink:


----------



## gwailow

Too much fighting on here amongst sportsmen. If you don't like seeing this happen then complain to someone that can do something about it. Personally, I didn't like seeing that all these big fish were taken during the spawn, but it's legal so get off their backs. This thread is full of people that think they know what they are talking about from both sides. Why don't we all just come off of our condecending perches congratulate the shooters, and show some condolence for those who lost their "pets".


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

-oooo- -/|\-


----------



## RnF

I would love to see this sort of passion directed towards people who are actually breaking the law. Those are the people who are damaging our resources. These guys didn't even put a dent in the fish quality there and were completely with in their rights to do what they did.


----------



## Riverrat77

I just read the whole eleven pages.... do I like it? No, not really. Maybe I just am not sure what the whole "cycle" of life is for a big lake trout, but without knowing a whole lot about the scuba situation (other than what the spearfishermen posted up) it just kinda seems like a bad deal. Might not be... but thats my first reaction to it.... just man, those are some real trophies that got tagged in there. I don't ever and might not ever fish Fish Lake... but I've read the posts of guys who catch the big ones there and for the most part, I recall them being CPR reports. These guys were legal, so there probably isn't much to complain about, but it kinda hits you in the gut when you see it I guess. I'm sure it takes some skill and time, since pretty much anything underwater is a really awkward undertaking but man.... the impression is definitely there that its a "fish in a barrel" situation, maybe made more so by "the spawn". Those of us who fish with rod and reel know how easy it is during the spawn so perhaps thats why that impression is what pops into my mind at least. Nice fish though.... just to add a positive note. Very nice... and the carp, well, that just looks like a hell of a good time. 8)


----------



## jahan

I think why many are having heartburn over it is because 

-It is during the spawn and generally you are not allowed to fish streams and tribs. during this time.
-Most of the time in pics you see one maybe two of these monsters and everyone is seeing 10 times that amount.

I can see both side on the spawning issue. I guess my question is, why the inconstancy? Why is it illegal to fish for spawning cutts in upper fish creek, but alright to fish for spawning lakes in Fish Lake? Honest question. We hunt elk and deer in the rut and it is definetely easier than during regular hunt, but it is not easy by any means. I can't imagine it being very easy to spear one of these fish in open water, I imagine it takes quite a bit of skill.

I think this is just a mind issue, it is kind of like the mindset of I can't afford a $15,000 car, but when they break it down to only $150 a month it doesn't seem as bad even thought it is the same amount, well actually more with interest. Well anyhow you get my point. :mrgreen: 

My final statement is, they did nothing illegal. The gentleman that came on here and addressed everyone seems like a good guy. Eventually they might have to regulate it differently, but right now I don't see an issue with it, especially after seeing that pile of carp, we should be thanking them.


----------



## GaryFish

One thing I think is interesting is the change in the sociology of fishermen over the last few decades. Our father, grandfathers, and even some of us, have snapshots in old scrapbooks or on the wall of the cabin that are not all that different. Happy fishermen holding stringers full of HUGE fish is common in our fishermen heritage. Since the early 90s though, it has become taboo to keep/kill large fish, and now by some to be considered unethical. Funny how things change.


----------



## megalodon

wyoming2utah said:


> megalodon said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't, let me repeat, *don't* harvest big fish in large numbers or on a regular basis.
> 
> So yes, regular angler do harvest less.
> 
> 
> 
> Hah...you don't. In fact, wasn't it you that said
> 
> 
> megalodon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have "harvested" 1 mackinaw over 10 pounds from Fishlake in over 40 years fishing there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> The truth, as shown in creel surveys, is that regular hook and line anglers harvest far more than do the spearfishermen.
Click to expand...

Evidently, in your haste to counter any opinion contrary to your own and have the last word while you're at it, you're unable to read... I said 1 in over 40 years. I have fished THAT LAKE for OVER 40 YEARS, and taken *ONE FISH*. And it was old, it was over their - DNR's- 30" data mark.

Why is it that people who know somebody, that know somebody feel the need to lecture. I really don't care about the geography lesson. Having grown up in Grass Valley, I am well aware of the size, depth, shape, color, what ever, of Fishlake. You can spout numbers and random bits of useless trivia all day long. You're welcome to.

I am also aware of the fact that the argument isn't really about this particular incident. It's about the future. This place is home, it means a great deal to a lot of people. If this type of thing continues to grow, it will eventually impact that lake. This isn't the first tounament to be held there, -I've seen photos of several- and won't be the last. Unfortunately..... Now go ahead and have the last word, I'm done with this thread. We'll see what there is better to do...Maybe go do some fishing.


----------



## .45

Be careful fishing, the browns will be spawning soon. It would almost be immoral to catch one of those in full color......


----------



## Christopher30

wyoming2utah said:


> Christopher30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see valid points made by both sides, but i still say it needs to be regulated summer months only. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, i'm just saying you should'nt be able to waylay the macs when they're trying to make more macs. I know alot of people spearfish there, i just have never seen so many people kill so many trophy macs in one day and i don't agree with it. The end
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter when those fish are harvested? Would it change anything if they harvested the same number of fish over a 1 month period?
> 
> By the way, as I mentioned before, harvesting the big lake trout during the spawn will NOT affect the population at all...in fact, with the total increase of lakers in the lake the past 10-20 years, it could have a positive effect.
> 
> 
> 
> Christopher30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those fish take years to grow that size, and to shoot them for a sport is sickening to me. That lake is not that big, i'll bet you a few of those now dead macks has been caught by a seasoned angler and released for someone younger to enjoy. That plan was sadly kaboshed when a spear hit them broadside while they were trying to make more lake trout, something they have a hard enough time doing without being shot at.
> Whoever was stupid enough to say that fishing for trophy macks and spearfishing for them are the same thing, heres a picture for you. If these guys would've caught this fish would it have been heading back down to eat some more chubs? Don't think so, how can you be that ignorant? Keeping fish is not wrong, killing them hordes at a time, i think that's unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many years does it take for fish to grow to that size? Did you know that the 20-22 inch macks in the lake now could make the transition to 30+ inches in less than 2 years if they simply start eating rainbows? I think you vastly overestimate the time it takes for other lake trout to replace those harvested. Also, FWIW, there are very few chubs left in Fish Lake. There principal forage fish are rainbows...so, the fish you are releasing was probably not going to be eating too many more chubs, but more rainbow trout. Don't make up some unethical notion of not releasing fish based on the lake trout controlling chubs...it isn't happening.
> 
> I bet also that a few of the lake trout you and your cronies have harvested in the past couple of years were also caught and released by other fishermen. What's your point? Is your harvesting of a trophy lake trout any different from a spear fisherman harvesting a single trophy lake trout or splake?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many total lake trout and splake have you and your fishing partners harvested from Fish Lake this year?
> 
> By the way, does Winston still work at Mountain America?
Click to expand...

To answer your curiosity, i have kept 1, my partners have harvested 2, one for each of their wall. One other "partner" harvested a 13lb splake for his wall, notice the pattern here?How many over 10 have been caught by me or my "cronies", about 18. Weird i release a lot more than i catch, and i only kill the ones that i feel are elite.
Last time i checked 4 was a lot less than 13. I've been up there for probably the better part of 30 fishing days in the last year and half, i didn't pull up one weekend and start wiping out fish.You and PBH seem to think i keep a lot, i like to let them go so i can catch them again. I'm going to start bashing them over the head and sinking them so you and your spearfishing boyfriends can't catch or spear or do anything to them because they will all be dead. This just in, everybody keep every mac you catch, because they are a limited resource that won't be there much longer. Because of the way some people on here have defended this animosity, it's clear that it's fine to kill them and nobody values the fact that we have a nationally recognized fishery in our backyard. Lets kill all of those macs, just wipe them out. Better me and you kill them all than some out of stater with a spear. Kiss them goodbye boys, i'm going to murder the hell out of them this fall, winter, and spring, i'll post pictures of the mass exodus too. I'm going to take pictures of me kicking dirt on them and swearing at them. Peace out, i'm done with this pissing match, call me on if you want, do it in pm so i can swear.
by the way, winston still works at macu


----------



## Pez Gallo

scubadown16 said:


> Would this picture make you feel better???
> 
> I don't go to Fish lake but maybe once a year. Most of what I do is for putting fish on my dinner table for my kids and family to enjoy. You may choose to fish for fun or "Sport" And I applaude you Chris for releasing most if not all your fish. But because I hunt for food which happens to be a fish you prize. Your trying to take food out of my kids mouth. What if the shoe was on the other foot. What if I tried to take food out of your mouth or your kids mouth. How would you feel? You say that your ok with us doing this in other times of the year. Just not during the spawn... I am sure that this is do to the illusion that these fish are just laying on the bottom and we are just putting our spears to them and pulling the trigger. This is totally not the case. These fish are free swimming and are not in a weakend state. I am happy to take some video footage and post it for you to show what we see.
> 
> James Hardesty


Okay...

I am going to call BS on anyone who drives from Colorado to Utah with the price of gas, buys a diving suit and spear gun and says they are spearfishing on a substanance basis. It would be a lot cheaper for you to buy fish from the store, heck maybe you could buy something worth eating! 

Now, as far as anyone spearfishing within the law, I have no problem if people want to enjoy that, but I may have a problem with the law itself.

Spearfishing targets trophy fish. Spearfishing kills those trophy fish. When all you do is kill the trophy fish, that is a detriment to the genetics of a fish population. Is Fish Lake overpopulated with trophy Macs? Why not target fish that are overpopulated and work in concert with positive conservation efforts, especially if it is a competition? Go and shoot burbot at flaming gorge. Wouldn't that be more of a challenge than shooting a 3' long 2' wide Mac?

Conventional fishing tournaments that kill trophy fish are on my hit list too, so it is not as if spearfishing is alone. There are a lot of things that can negatively impact a resourse.

I am not saying that conventional fishermen do not harvest trophy fish, but even the best professional or recreational conventional fisherman can not sucessfully bag a trophy fish the way an average to good spearfisherman can. The proof is in the picture of your trophy fish!

Again, I respect that you are enjoying your sport within the confines of the law, but I now will make sure to let the DWR know that I am not pleased with the law as it is currently written, like I hope that other stewards of our natural resources will do. I would do the same thing if I witnessed conventional fishermen displaying an obvious injury on a resource


----------



## martymcfly73

Christopher30 said:


> wyoming2utah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christopher30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see valid points made by both sides, but i still say it needs to be regulated summer months only. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, i'm just saying you should'nt be able to waylay the macs when they're trying to make more macs. I know alot of people spearfish there, i just have never seen so many people kill so many trophy macs in one day and i don't agree with it. The end
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter when those fish are harvested? Would it change anything if they harvested the same number of fish over a 1 month period?
> 
> By the way, as I mentioned before, harvesting the big lake trout during the spawn will NOT affect the population at all...in fact, with the total increase of lakers in the lake the past 10-20 years, it could have a positive effect.
> 
> 
> 
> Christopher30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those fish take years to grow that size, and to shoot them for a sport is sickening to me. That lake is not that big, i'll bet you a few of those now dead macks has been caught by a seasoned angler and released for someone younger to enjoy. That plan was sadly kaboshed when a spear hit them broadside while they were trying to make more lake trout, something they have a hard enough time doing without being shot at.
> Whoever was stupid enough to say that fishing for trophy macks and spearfishing for them are the same thing, heres a picture for you. If these guys would've caught this fish would it have been heading back down to eat some more chubs? Don't think so, how can you be that ignorant? Keeping fish is not wrong, killing them hordes at a time, i think that's unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many years does it take for fish to grow to that size? Did you know that the 20-22 inch macks in the lake now could make the transition to 30+ inches in less than 2 years if they simply start eating rainbows? I think you vastly overestimate the time it takes for other lake trout to replace those harvested. Also, FWIW, there are very few chubs left in Fish Lake. There principal forage fish are rainbows...so, the fish you are releasing was probably not going to be eating too many more chubs, but more rainbow trout. Don't make up some unethical notion of not releasing fish based on the lake trout controlling chubs...it isn't happening.
> 
> I bet also that a few of the lake trout you and your cronies have harvested in the past couple of years were also caught and released by other fishermen. What's your point? Is your harvesting of a trophy lake trout any different from a spear fisherman harvesting a single trophy lake trout or splake?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many total lake trout and splake have you and your fishing partners harvested from Fish Lake this year?
> 
> By the way, does Winston still work at Mountain America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To answer your curiosity, i have kept 1, my partners have harvested 2, one for each of their wall. One other "partner" harvested a 13lb splake for his wall, notice the pattern here?How many over 10 have been caught by me or my "cronies", about 18. Weird i release a lot more than i catch, and i only kill the ones that i feel are elite.
> Last time i checked 4 was a lot less than 13. I've been up there for probably the better part of 30 fishing days in the last year and half, i didn't pull up one weekend and start wiping out fish.You and PBH seem to think i keep a lot, i like to let them go so i can catch them again. I'm going to start bashing them over the head and sinking them so you and your spearfishing boyfriends can't catch or spear or do anything to them because they will all be dead. This just in, everybody keep every mac you catch, because they are a limited resource that won't be there much longer. Because of the way some people on here have defended this animosity, it's clear that it's fine to kill them and nobody values the fact that we have a nationally recognized fishery in our backyard. Lets kill all of those macs, just wipe them out. Better me and you kill them all than some out of stater with a spear. Kiss them goodbye boys, i'm going to murder the hell out of them this fall, winter, and spring, i'll post pictures of the mass exodus too. I'm going to take pictures of me kicking dirt on them and swearing at them. Peace out, i'm done with this **** match, call me on if you want, do it in pm so i can swear.
> by the way, winston still works at macu
Click to expand...

How old are you? I think some juvenile logged into your computer and started spouting from the pie hole. :wink:


----------



## plottrunner

Christopher30 said:


> To answer your curiosity, i have kept 1, my partners have harvested 2, one for each of their wall. One other "partner" harvested a 13lb splake for his wall, notice the pattern here?How many over 10 have been caught by me or my "cronies", about 18. Weird i release a lot more than i catch, and i only kill the ones that i feel are elite.
> Last time i checked 4 was a lot less than 13. I've been up there for probably the better part of 30 fishing days in the last year and half, i didn't pull up one weekend and start wiping out fish.You and PBH seem to think i keep a lot, i like to let them go so i can catch them again. I'm going to start bashing them over the head and sinking them so you and your spearfishing boyfriends can't catch or spear or do anything to them because they will all be dead. This just in, everybody keep every mac you catch, because they are a limited resource that won't be there much longer. Because of the way some people on here have defended this animosity, it's clear that it's fine to kill them and nobody values the fact that we have a nationally recognized fishery in our backyard. *Lets kill all of those macs, just wipe them out. Better me and you kill them all than some out of stater with a spear. Kiss them goodbye boys, i'm going to murder the hell out of them this fall, winter, and spring, i'll post pictures of the mass exodus too. I'm going to take pictures of me kicking dirt on them and swearing at them.* Peace out, i'm done with this **** match, call me on if you want, do it in pm so i can swear.
> by the way, winston still works at macu


**** Chris remind me to pack a gun next time we go to fish lake..........geesh..... oh and by the way are we still going spear fishing tomorrow? :lol: :lol: just kidding man...........eveyone needs to lighten the hell up....... this is getting just as entertaining as everyone bashing mossback over the spidey bull....I expect that in the big game section. Getting your panties in a wad over 15 fish is a waste of time........... oh and by the way wyoming2utah is there anything that you arent an expert on?


----------



## Petersen

If this keeps up we're going to have to create a new "Spearfishing and Diving" forum here. Seriously. :wink:


----------



## The Naturalist

I am really curious about this sport. I haven't read every post on this topic, so pardon me for my naivity and/or if this has already been addressed. From what I can gather, this was a freediving tournament? And this means no air tanks? Fish Lake is deep, so to what depth is an average freedive while spearfishing? Is artificial light allowed? I could go on and on with questions - so If someone involved in the sport would like to enlighten me I would greatly appreciate it  
BTW, this sport sounds very difficult. 
Thanks.


----------



## proutdoors

Nibble Nuts said:


> To CRH, element and the rest of your gang:
> Your sport looks awesome! I hope that one day I will have the time and money to start spearfishing myself. It looks like a riveting and more primal way to fish. You have my admiration on this. Thanks for ridding the many lakes that you visit of hundreds of carp. I hate carp. Sorry about the flak that many have given you here and on BFT. I can't believe the one guy who is actually looking for technicalities to turn you guys in for over on BFT. Stay strong guys. Hopefully someday I can join the spearfishing community.


+1

I missed this thread somehow. WOW!

Congrats guys, looks like you had a lot of fun.

Garyfish, your posts were dead on great as well!

Some of you 'fishermen' need to get a grip and get over yourselves. Holy Hanna! :roll:


----------



## clean pass through

As of right now, I don't see the need or concern over spear fishing. However if it gets too popular it will put a strain on the resource and will need to be regulated, like anything else. It actually kinda intrigues me and I kinda want to do it. 

Those are some big freakin fish, I guess I am just envious (SP?). 

But I will call BS on the trying to provide food for the table. Lake Trout tast Like #$%&(Duck) :mrgreen: . Thats why I don't hunt ducks, I can't choke them down. Althought I think I coud become obsessed with hunting ducks because it looks like a blast. Spear fishing sounds like fun also but I don't need another hobby taking away from my hunting and regular fishing fund as of right now. :lol: 

It is not illegal, as of now. If it gets out of hand then it should be regulated more strictly.


----------



## brittonpoint

Truth be told he doesn't eat ducks because he can't hit them.


----------



## CRH

The Naturalist said:


> I am really curious about this sport. I haven't read every post on this topic, so pardon me for my naivity and/or if this has already been addressed. From what I can gather, this was a freediving tournament? And this means no air tanks? Fish Lake is deep, so to what depth is an average freedive while spearfishing? Is artificial light allowed? I could go on and on with questions - so If someone involved in the sport would like to enlighten me I would greatly appreciate it
> BTW, this sport sounds very difficult.
> Thanks.


Wow, I thought this was a dead thread and now 13 pages.Cool, I am glad some of you are intersted in spearing. 
This was an open tournament, meaning open to SCUBA or freedive, but eveyone chose to frredive for this one. We found most of these fish in 20-40 feet deep. They were not lethargic and swimming lazily, we hunt them. Just like H&L use lures, bait, scents to attract fish we have techniques too. They do not include lures, scents bait etc. I wont disclose my techniques though. Sorry. Artificial light is not allowed and is not used, I only use dive lights in the ocean when looking into caves etc. The depth we go depends on the fish and location. I have friends that have reached over 190' with a 7:30 minute plus breath hold, I have been 80+ to get fish. It takes a lot of training to rerach those depths. We can go deep, either freedive or SCUBA that is the major problem I have with all the fishermen that are saying we waited for the "spawn" to go dive fish lake, we could have went in the summer and landed larger ones at deeper depths but we had other tourneies to put on and scheduled them as we could. On SCUBA these guys go over 200+ feet to land trophy fish. If you would like more info PM me and then we can talk. 
And to the guy (Pez) that is calling BS saying that we dont dive to feed our families, you really need to get a life. YOu can read into Scubas post all you want, he didnt say we drive to Utah to feed our families. Freakin get a life and quit nit pickin everyones post. We have answered every post that questions our legality and reasoning for diving. If you need some answers I recommend you read all 13 pages. Its there. 
Also Pez, spearfishing just doesnt target trophy fish, jsut because we land them doens mean we tatrget them, so If you and you fishing buddies land a couple big fish does that mean you will repent to your buddies and throw it back and feel terrible the rest of your life? throw your pole away and never fish again because you caught a trophy? Dont think so! At least we can select which fish we kill. you cant, if it bites or swallows your hook then you have to reel it in and try to release it. So dont talk about something you dont know about. We dont mount our trophies, we eat them. we dont waste fish. If you want to know what we target read thru this thread again before you jump the gun and run your mouth. We have killed well over 3000+ carp and other invasive species in this season alone! So it is not fair for you to come on here and say we "target trophy fish"! THat my friend is BS! 
As far as you calling "BS" on eating splake and trout, once again I will explain this. Taste is SUBJECTIVE, that means taste in everything from how you dress to what you eat, so please save that argument. I sure hope you dont think everyone eats the same things you do. If you would like I will take pics of my vacuum sealed splake, lake, rainbow and brook trout that are in my freezer ready to be eaten by myself and my family. If you dont like it, well dont eat it. I didnt invite you over to dinner did I?
And for all of you that keep saying we had a huge effect on the Lake/Mac population, I will say this one more time. In that group photo that most of you have seen, there are only 3 Macs/Lakers in that pic, the rest are splake. (verified by the 3 DWR agents there) and some of the various species of invasive fish we killed. By the way we killed over 175+ carp/suckers that would have feasted on the trout eggs/ spawning beds. Splake dont reproduce so no harm no foul. right? 
I am dont trying to argue a mood point. If you are interested in learing about spearfishing PM me, Element or Scubadown we will be glad to learn you on it. 
Thanks guys, 
Chad


----------



## .45

Freediving at my age ? 7.5 minutes ? HA !!

I tip over when I have to hold my breath for 7.5 seconds while looking at a woman in a mini-skirt !! _(O)_ 

You guy's just keep enjoying life how you like to, I commend you fellar's on your abilities and sportsmanship !! I'll stay on top, and just keep getting skunked.


----------



## Al Hansen

.45 said:


> Freediving at my age ? 7.5 minutes ? HA !!
> 
> I tip over when I have to hold my breath for 7.5 seconds while looking at a woman in a mini-skirt !! _(O)_
> 
> You guy's just keep enjoying life how you like to, I commend you fellar's on your abilities and sportsmanship !! I'll stay on top, and just keep getting skunked.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## scubadown16

I would like to put a quote up from another board by a citizen of Utah I think it sums things up nicely.

"Now for a Soap Box moment.

Personal Choices is a big part of life. I don't care for people that think it is up to them to make my personal choices for me. As I've read the attacks from some individuals in the H & L forums regarding this spearfishing event up at Fish Lake, I think that they would like to do just that.

The Utah Division of Wildlife resources has seen fit to open a FEW, and I emphasize A FEW key waters in the state of Utah to spearfishing for game fish. They have set creel limits and dates it is allowable to spearfish in these waters. In addition, we have INVITED those who happen to live outside of the state to come participate in the great fishing & hunting inside the state borders. I am ashamed at how some Utahn's have stuck their noses up in the air in a show of social superiority because they think that somehow those we have invited aren't really welcome here.

That these H & L fishermen have their undies in a bunch because everybody in the fishing world doesn't have their same standards is a ridiculous notion. Of course not everybody has their same standards, nor do they have my same standards. Do I expect them to live their sporting lives by the details of my standards? No. If I sat down and explained to them about why I believe certain practices are better or worse than others do I think they would change over to 'my way of thinking'. A few might. Others might think that I am overboard in my 'ethics'. Other might think I don't go far enough. A few might not give a crap about what I think and are only interested in what's in it for them. Others allow me the opportunity to do it my way as long as I am not way out of line. DO I THINK THAT THIS LAST WEEKEND WAS WAY OUT OF LINE? Absolutely, definitely not. The standards are set by the DWR, not by elitest individuals or groups.

I am impressed with the abilities of the individuals that participated in this contest. Impressed with their fortitude to deal with the elements and to do something THE HARD WAY. To those H & L fishermen that may be taking a peek at this forum to see what the big stir is all about, before you jump to criticize, you should first get an idea about the effort and dedication that these freedivers have put into perfecting their 'spearfishing' skills. If somebody has told you that it is an easy or unfair way to take a fish, they are seriously misinformed. Spearfishing while Freediving is the HARD WAY.

The last thing that really bothers me about what I read on the H & L forums was the US vs THEM ownership issue. As a longtime resident of Utah, I apologize to all of you that were unfairly labeled as OUTSIDERS by a few individuals that think that Fish Lake is their private property and/or that they are the keepers of the Holy Mackinaw. What a crock of crap.

Fish Lake resides inside Fish Lake NATIONAL Forest. Last time I was up there, I saw the big sign for myself, "Entering Fish Lake National Forest". It doesn't say that it is El Sombrero's personal fishing hole. I don't begrudge these individuals feeling a personal attachment for the lake, as I do. It is a beautiful lake in a fabulous setting. But for them to label anybody outside of their personal group or living outside the borders of Utah as unworthy is embarrassing.

As a Utahn, I invite all of my fellow spearfishermen back next year with open arms. I am looking forward to participating in next years events, Regardless of the venues.

step down off soapbox.

Two thumbs up for James and friends for organizing this years events.

Rich -"

I would like to thank you all for chimming in and showing your support for what every your cause is... I personally would have never thought I would see as much support and interest in our way of fishing... I welcome anyone who wants to learn how to dive and spearfish to email me at [email protected] I am happy to help you get started. Do you have to have a 7 1/2 minute breath hold... No. Do you need to dive to 80+ feet... NO Do you have to put lots of time in to better your technic??? YES... So please come out and enjoy what nature or the DNR has provided for us all.

For the few who don't think I am smart for driving to Utah to put food on my table. I have this to say... 
I drive to many of places to enjoy what Nature provides. It would be cheaper to stay home and buy food from our local supermarkets. But I prefer to get out of the house and enjoy as much of this world as I can. In the process I will take what I need for my family.

" GIVE A MAN A FISH, AND YOU'LL FEED HIM FOR A DAY... TEACH A MAN TO FISH, YOU'LL FEED HIM FOR A LIFETIME.... SHOW A MAN HOW TO SPEARFISH AND HE WILL PROVIDE FOR HIS VILLAGE FOR ETERNITY"

THANKS
James L. Hardesty III


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## blackbear

:roll: this is stupid.... dont worry, I am sure this will be illegal soon enough. Just like every other aspect of fishing and hunting has been regulated and/or restricted. Have fun while it lasts guys, cause it wont be around much longer. :|


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## k2muskie

What a very interesting thread indeed and just my two cents....

We're so glad spearfishing Tiger Muskies in Utah is "illegal". And I can sincerely emphasize with those of you who are in the "Mac Pac" or have fished for these fish and never caught one of size. I would be down right PO'd ...when I first saw the pictures and went to the link on this event I was totally taken back. :shock: Kinda reminded me of hunting where one throughout the year has feed hoopers out in areas for the game...then a week before the hunt removes these feed hoppers. How is that even considered sport...??? :roll: 

With angling one has to use skill and various techniques to entice a bite especially for a potential record catch. However with spearfishing from what I've read it's eye-to-eye with the fish and/or human see's fish and shoots a high powered speargun. Why don't you do it the old fashion way with just a plain spear diving 50+ feet on one breath is what I have to ask.... 

Yes, spearfishing looks like it's alot of training in the water and I give credit to you for that. However, spearfishing with the equipment you folks used to me especially during a known spawn well how can that even be called sport...like one other comment...kinda like shooting a prize game species giving birth or game looking for the feed hooper that was removed a week before.

...oh and the comment "taking food off the table" well I doubt very much you and other folks who have taken to spearfishing are really hurting for money and/or hurting for food on your families table. Now riddle-me-this spearfishing folks...how many of you are actually going to eat those fish??? oh and better yet.. how many of those fish are now in land fills??? 

Finally, I agree I don't see this lasting long in a tournament sense due to the outrage it has caused. So just stick to spearfishing in the ocean or better yet why don't you folks go after the Golden Carp and get a record doing that and put those fish on your table to eat including posting photos of huge carp.


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## Pez Gallo

Well, I thought that my post was made with respect. No hurt was meant, I just have a differing opinion of the spearfishing guys. CRH, I believe you were maybe a little out of line with the harshness of your tone, and do a disservice to your cause.

I would just like to make a few additional comments. 

I really do appreciate the spearfishing of carp where they have become a detriment to the resource, such as in Utah Lake. I feel the same for the guys who bowfish for them. Not that I dont like carp, as they are awesome to catch (and can be quite the challenge to catch with artificials), but they are an underutilized resource and are hazardous to underwater vegetation.

CRH mentioned that spearfishermen do not target trophy fish. The image at the beginning of this post would beg to differ with that. I would think most people would have considered those fish as "trophies." I'll be the first to admit that as a conventional fisherman, I do target trophy fish, but unfortunately do not catch them without a lot of effort. I fish at least once a week, more often 2-3 times a week, and I have only caught maybe 2 fish this year that I would consider to be a true trophy like those in the picture with the spearfishing guys. And yes CRH, I would like to see the fish in your freezer because legally you are not supposed to have in your possession more than 1 bag limit per licensed angler (page 31 of this year's fishing rule book).

Spearfishermen have my respect for their obvious skills and dedication. That is not a debate in my mind. But, I would say that the chances for a trophy sized fish seems a lot more in reach for a good spearfisherman, whereas a really good conventional fisherman would have to put in a lot more angling hours for that same fish (on average). If this was not true, then there would be far less restriction on the sport, including in Colorado where spearfishing for Lake Trout is illegal in all waters. 

Now, like I wrote before, I am not a big fan of the conventional anglers with a "me first" attitude and keeps every fish they catch. That is pretty irresponsable and selfish, at least in my opinion. But they are legal to do so, same as spearfishing is legal with certain regulations, but it doesn't mean that a person can not or should not be able to express their opinions in a respectful manner. Also, I keep a fish here and there, especially if the DWR is asking anglers to keep certain fish such as perch in fish lake, 12" smallmouth and burbot from flaming gorge, brown trout on the provo river, stripers at lake powell and so on.

The whole point is this. As sportsmen, we need to realize that we are all stewards of our natural resources and act accordingly. We should not rape a resource just because the law allows us to.

In my opinion, spearfishing for trophy game fish, especially those with slow growth rates or economic value seems to be a practice that could be dangerous for a fishery if it were to become too common. Hopefully this post will have a good impact, whatever happens.


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## netresult

Pez, That was imho, the most thoughtful, fair, even-handed response on the subject. Thanks for putting into words what a lot of us feel!


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## scubadown16

k2muskie said:


> What a very interesting thread indeed and just my two cents....
> 
> We're so glad spearfishing Tiger Muskies in Utah is "illegal". quote]
> 
> I guess I should infom you sense you don't seam to know the regs either.... Spearfishing for Tiger Muskie is totaly legal and in fact we have take sever muskie out of Fish lake. The new regs state that a fish must be 40 inchs in length to take. And we are allowed ONE. If you look back at one of my post you'll see a picture of some muskie that have been taken from Fish lake. Now I don't say this to make you made but rather to inform you on what is legal and what is not.
> 
> I think its funny how people are so passionate about one fish and so non-caring about others... You say to take carp.. I bet there are people who would be agree as hell if they heard we were killing carp too.
> 
> Every fish we shot is used for some purpose. Weather its used to fertilize a garden or make a meal you would die for. I can promise you that we don't rape resources or spearfish for purposses of making people angree. You may not eat every type of fish but there are a ton of people who do. I can even show you pictures of guys eating carp sashimi.
> 
> I can understand that you may fish for sport weather your fish is a mac or walleye or tiger muskie. We as spearfishermen do it for sport as well as for the take. The take will feed my family.
> 
> I guess will have to agree to disagree and let the DNR be the ones who settle this disagreement. I will take away from all this that some people no matter what you say or do are going to be closed minded and not willing to see things from someone elses point of view. I wish you all the best.
> 
> " REMEMBER IF YOU GIVE A MAN A FISH YOU'LL FEED HIM FOR A DAY, TEACH A MAN TO FISH AND YOU'LL FEED HIM FOR A LIFETIME, BUT IF YOU TEACH A MAN TO SPEARFISH HE'LL FEED HIS TRIBE FOR ETERNITY "
> 
> James L Hardesty


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## fixed blade XC-3

I don't see any Tiger Muskie. Please post a link.


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## CRH

k2muskie said:


> What a very interesting thread indeed and just my two cents....
> 
> We're so glad spearfishing Tiger Muskies in Utah is "illegal".
> 
> With angling one has to use skill and various techniques to entice a bite especially for a potential record catch. However with spearfishing from what I've read it's eye-to-eye with the fish and/or human see's fish and shoots a high powered speargun. Why don't you do it the old fashion way with just a plain spear diving 50+ feet on one breath is what I have to ask....
> 
> Yes, spearfishing looks like it's alot of training in the water and I give credit to you for that. However, spearfishing with the equipment you folks used to me especially during a known spawn well how can that even be called sport...like one other comment...kinda like shooting a prize game species giving birth or game looking for the feed hooper that was removed a week before.
> 
> ...oh and the comment "taking food off the table" well I doubt very much you and other folks who have taken to spearfishing are really hurting for money and/or hurting for food on your families table. Now riddle-me-this spearfishing folks...how many of you are actually going to eat those fish??? oh and better yet.. how many of those fish are now in land fills???
> 
> Finally, I agree I don't see this lasting long in a tournament sense due to the outrage it has caused. So just stick to spearfishing in the ocean or better yet why don't you folks go after the Golden Carp and get a record doing that and put those fish on your table to eat including posting photos of huge carp.


First it is LEGAL to take tiger muskie over 40".

Second, did you read any of this post or just the begining and jump to the end to write your ".2 cents"? We do dive 50+ feet to shoot fish, we do use a "spear", I actually use an old school polespear also called a 3 prong, so please befoe you start jumping to conclusions get your facts right. So if we use up to dat e equipment we are then cheating? SO I guess you only use a hand line and homemade hook to catch your fish? NO lures? NO attractants? YOu have to be kidding me with that, since when is it wrong to use newer advanced equipment? I guess only in your world. 
Third, how dare you assume that just because we spearfish that we are "not hurting" for food or money? You dont know any of us or our financial standings. So please keep those ridiculous comments to yourself. If you would have read the thread then you would have seen that we do eat all the game fish that we take. 
Fourth, why dont you just fish for carp? Are you better than us so that we have to stick to carp? Once again read the thread, all of this has been addressed. Why dont you catch carp and feed your family? And if you would have read the thread you would have seen the pics of all our carp that we have killed. Why dont you and all othe H&L stick to salt water? That is yet another ridiculous statement. It is crazy for you to assume that these tourneies will be "outlawed". Spearing in Utah lakes is not new and is not over.

Pez, 
Sorry that my post sounded rude but I am tired of repeating the same thing, if you guys would read the entire thread before posting then a lot of your answer would be answered. 
Like I said, just like you and your buds that H&L fish we like to shoot big fish too, we dont go out there just for that but if one swims up to me I am not going to say, well I should let that go because hes TOO BIG. That doesnt make sense to anyone, I hope not at least. 
Now as far as my freezer goes, did I say that I had an ilegal amount of lake trout in my freezer? No I said I would take pics of the fish that were in there. Also you are allowed to have more than one fish in your freezer. YOU are crazy if you think that you are only allowed to have the daily limit in your freezer at home. 
Pez wrote:
"Spearfishermen have my respect for their obvious skills and dedication. That is not a debate in my mind. But, I would say that the chances for a trophy sized fish seems a lot more in reach for a good spearfisherman, whereas a really good conventional fisherman would have to put in a lot more angling hours for that same fish (on average). If this was not true, then there would be far less restriction on the sport, including in Colorado where spearfishing for Lake Trout is illegal in all waters."

So we because we choose to fish in a different method we should feel bad for taking bigger fish then someone who has the same oppurtunity to do the same? Just because we have a better chanc in your opinion why should we pass on a trophy fish? Because you think so? BTW, it is not illegal to take LAke trout in Colorado.

.45, 
I bet you could do it. I dove with guys in there 60's in Hawaii and they are great divers/spearos!


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## CRH

Cats and walleye








Some walleye and catfish from local lake








This is what it we do. 








Girls do it to








Hope you enjoy the pics


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## Pez Gallo

CRH
BTW said:


> http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyre ... 0/Ch01.pdf[/URL]
> 
> On page 3 it states under spear fishing very clearly that lake trout may not be taken while spearfishing. Look at part 4 section a. I suggest that you become aquainted with the regulations. Also, I gave you the information on the possession limit for utah, which includes what is in your freezer. Page 31 of the 2008 utah reg book. give it a read.


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## fixed blade XC-3

Correct me If I'm wrong, but I don't think fish lake has tiger muskie.


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## FLYFSHR

scubadown16- first I'd like to commend you on approaching this subject in a civil manner. That's what keeps a thread alive and we can achieve different angles of opinions.
Tiger Muskie in Fish Lake is a new one to me :wink:

CRH- I believe your tone of voice surely doesn't help out with your cause. Matter of fact your making it worse. I'm sure you feel highly respectful of your sport and feel a need to stand behind it but I'm seeing a soapbox deal here.
You keep defending the food situation.


CRH said:


> Third, how dare you assume that just because we spearfish that we are "not hurting" for food or money? You dont know any of us or our financial standings. So please keep those ridiculous comments to yourself.


You wouldn't be hurting for money or food if you'd quit leaving your state. The money and food subject should leave this equation because it isn't helping your cause.


CRH said:


> YOU are crazy if you think that you are only allowed to have the daily limit in your freezer at home.


The proc states "In your posession". That also includes what is in your freezer. Now that's in Ut. maybe Co. is different.

Pez Gallo- great post. I wish I could put my words in a manner as your's.


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## mjschijf

From what I've heard, there are a few Muskies in fish lake that came down from Johnson Reservoir. There's not many, but according to the DWR there are some.


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## fixed blade XC-3

Yeah you guys are losing credibility really fast. I'm guessing you guys are calling each other laughing. Probably something along these lines. Man are these Utah guys morons. Look how mad there getting, lets keep messing with them, hehehehe giggle, giggle, giggle. Cant wait to see ya again next year at fish lake so I can give ya a little spankin.

Jokes on you.


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## CRH

FLYFSHR said:


> scubadown16- first I'd like to commend you on approaching this subject in a civil manner. That's what keeps a thread alive and we can achieve different angles of opinions.
> Tiger Muskie in Fish Lake is a new one to me :wink:
> 
> CRH- I believe your tone of voice surely doesn't help out with your cause. Matter of fact your making it worse. I'm sure you feel highly respectful of your sport and feel a need to stand behind it but I'm seeing a soapbox deal here.
> You keep defending the food situation.
> 
> 
> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Third, how dare you assume that just because we spearfish that we are "not hurting" for food or money? You dont know any of us or our financial standings. So please keep those ridiculous comments to yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't be hurting for money or food if you'd quit leaving your state. The money and food subject should leave this equation because it isn't helping your cause.
Click to expand...

I was talking about what that guy said about if you spearfish you obviously have money. YOu cant make the assumption just because someone spears they have money. Thats stupid.

how do I have a tone of voice while typing, maybe you are taking it personal and viewing it that way. 
Why do you keep saying its not helping my cause, because I rebut something one of your chums says I am not helping "my cause"? Whatever? 
What are you talking about the "food situation"? Have you read this thread or just jumped to the end? 
Anyways I am done here, I dont care if you like what I do or think it is ethical, sporty or whatever. YOu stick to you H&L and I will take what I want with my spear. Hows that. go to your meetings, vote for who you want. I dont care. Dont get upset when you see pics of people that suceed in doing things you cant, like land a trophy Mack or whatever it may be. Freaking ridiulous.
Get a life and catch some fish, release them or eat them I dont care. Get over yourself and your holier than thow attitudes. 
Some of you have been real cool about this and not closed minded but some I guess are old and set in their ways. Times and things change, believe it or not.
I am Dee-you-in, done!
Argue amongst yourselves. If you would like to know more about spearing hit me up, or Scubadown. 
Aloha


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## .45

Great....lets just run these guy's out on a rail...

I'm glad we're showing them just what kind of moron's we have in Utah !!

Here's the link to 'tigers' in Fish Lake...

http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/fishlake/condit ... hing.shtml

DAHB


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## fixed blade XC-3

You're a mean man .45 I know they are you're new bff's, but come on.


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## The Naturalist

CRH & scubadown16, Gentlemen, thank you for your insight IMO to what appears to be an exciting sport.
Best wishes. Hey, next time, let me know where you're at and maybe you could put one of those big ones on my H&L.


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## k2muskie

I apologize as I didn't qualify the Tiger Muskie lake...but I'd be very careful spearing any Tiger Muskies unless you contact the DWR as for one body of water it's ILLEGAL. They changed the rules and it's not in the proclamination. You can trust me on that one...not everything is in print. :mrgreen:


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## El Matador

*Fishlake Spearfishing Success *

I hope next time you guys spear some sweet fish that you post your own report. I think its awesome, congratulations on your success.

Garyfish, you nailed it on the head. Criticizing someone for being successful is indeed jealous and infantile. But it is in everyone's nature. I have seen pictures of trophy bucks taken on public land, and felt like I was gut-punched...because I'm jealous that I didn't shoot one!

Sombrero, you're making a project out of trying to spoil someone's annual fishing trip? WTF? Even if you succeed (good luck :roll: ), it won't mean you're going to catch more fish. Work on your own pathetic fishing skills and leave these fine fishermen alone.


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## .45

fixed blade said:


> Yeah you guys are losing credibility really fast. I'm guessing you guys are calling each other laughing. Probably something along these lines. Man are these Utah guys morons. Look how mad there getting, lets keep messing with them, hehehehe giggle, giggle, giggle. Cant wait to see ya again next year at fish lake so I can give ya a little spankin.
> 
> Jokes on you.


Fixed....I see no reason for this comment. These guy's didn't show up to shove this in our face's. They came into this to calmly educate the public about freediving and spearfishing. 
This is a fully legal, legitimate and ethical sport. They come into Fish Lake once a year, this year, it just happened to end up during the spawn....big deal. Then we question them on their ethic's, there morals, and the law. Along with some of these questions are insult's and threats that I feel are unwarranted.


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## FLYFSHR

I made a post trying to help you out and in your haste you lash at me?


CRH said:


> YOu cant make the assumption just because someone spears they have money. Thats stupid.


The assumption was made because you're out of state. Not the fact that you spearfish. In fact I'd love to do some freediving myself. It sounds like alot of fun. 


CRH said:


> how do I have a tone of voice while typing, maybe you are taking it personal and viewing it that way.


Not the case at all. I read it the exact way you type it. 


CRH said:


> Whatever? ...Thats stupid....Have you read this thread ...I dont care...Hows that?...Freaking ridiulous...Get a life...Get over yourself and your holier than thow attitudes... YOu have to be kidding me with that...how dare you assume...keep those ridiculous comments to yourself...YOU are crazy...


Case in point?

Again as I stated before, I find this to be pretty interesting. Seems to be split down the middle as to whom is for it,whom is against it and the reasonings why. I'm sorry you feel as if I'm putting you down when I'm not. Just pointing out your trigger finger is all


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## Riverrat77

Look at the legs on that gal!!! :shock: Man, she could get me in a triangle leg lock any day she wanted... and I'd die a happy man. If thats the type that are into spearfishing.... I may just have to convert my bow for underwater use and take up the sport. :lol:


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## fixed blade XC-3

.45 said:


> [quote="fixed blade":1zme943g]Yeah you guys are losing credibility really fast. I'm guessing you guys are calling each other laughing. Probably something along these lines. Man are these Utah guys morons. Look how mad there getting, lets keep messing with them, hehehehe giggle, giggle, giggle. Cant wait to see ya again next year at fish lake so I can give ya a little spankin.
> 
> Jokes on you.


Fixed....I see no reason for this comment. These guy's didn't show up to shove this in our face's. They came into this to calmly educate the public about freediving and spearfishing. 
This is a fully legal, legitimate and ethical sport. They come into Fish Lake once a year, this year, it just happened to end up during the spawn....big deal. Then we question them on their ethic's, there morals, and the law. Along with some of these questions are insult's and threats that I feel are unwarranted.[/quote:1zme943g]

Something tell me they're going to be O.K. no matter what anyone thinks. I think there going to do just fine.


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## BrookTroutKid

I have a question do you still have to follow these rules when sperfishing?
FISH LAKE (Sevier County)
Trout limit 4, no more than 2 may be lake • trout/mackinaw and only *1 may be a lake trout/mackinaw larger than 20 inches.* :?


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## Catherder

I have to admit I have found this controversy and the discussion here (and elsewhere) surrounding it very interesting (and yes entertaining). Not that it will change anyone's opinion, but I thought I'd add my inflation adjusted 2 cents.

1. I have learned a fair bit I didn't know about the sport of spearfishing, and it seems like a fun way to fish for species that are routinely harvested substantially by H&L anglers. If I wasn't a middle aged asthmatic dude in so-so shape, I'd probably enjoy giving it a shot sometime.

2. The majority of these guys do obey the law. Attempts by their detractors to paint them as a bunch of poachers have made the opponents look ridiculous. Compliance to regulations will likely be even better now that the spearfishers know they will be closely scrutinized by opponents.

3. The action of spearfishing spawning macks is an enormously questionable activity. The fish are concentrated into small areas and are uniquely susceptible to spearfishing (and snagging!). Comparisons to elk hunting have been made here. I would submit that spearfishing spawning macks is less like hunting elk in the rut and more like hunting them at Hardware ranch! They are congregated in a small area and going nowhere. I would also say that if one is to affix "blame", I would say shame on the DWR for allowing it to happen. The spearfishermen are only going out when they have the greatest likelihood for success, just like the rest of us. It is the DWR's responsibility to recognize that the macks are uniquely susceptible now and regulate accordingly. Seasonal closures are routinely done with spawning cutts and bows, so protecting spawning macks should not be considered unusual. I find the assurances, that the totals harvested are insignificant, less than comforting. Once it is common knowledge among the nations spearfishing enthusiasts that one can come to Fish lake and easily ventilate a trophy mack, harvest will likely skyrocket. I do believe though that there is a good chance the DWR will listen to concerns. Last season, they changed a loophole in the spearfishing regs that allowed spear fishers to harvest a bass from Jordanelle or Deer creek that was over the slot. Now, spearfishers must abide by the same bag limits for a body of water as H&L anglers. 

4. The ecological benefits of killing a few carp when spearfishing are overstated. Unless the carp are killed in those numbers day after day, week after week, it is just a drop in the bucket. But by all means have at it!


----------



## handsomefish

BrookTroutKid said:


> I have a question do you still have to follow these rules when sperfishing?
> FISH LAKE (Sevier County)
> Trout limit 4, no more than 2 may be lake • trout/mackinaw and only *1 may be a lake trout/mackinaw larger than 20 inches.* :?


BrookTrouKid you beat me to it, I was looking over the proclamation last night and saw that, and I was going to post it but I was doing some research on some of the of the other issues
(Tiger Musky) I was trying to see when the one fish over 40 inches made it on the general rule page
The state record (spearfishing) is listed at under 40" I think it was 37.5 out of fish lake in 2006
Does anyone have a 2006 proc to see if it was even legal?
As far as the lake trout go I saw several guys holding two fish but all were over 20"


----------



## k2muskie

Tiger Musky info

http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/08-07/pineview.php

Page 44 of 2008 guide book

http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/200 ... ishing.pdf

IMHO with the issue on this fish...I won't be a bit surprized if tak'n a TM in other waters is made illegal per discussion I've had with DWR employees.

:wink: :wink:


----------



## k2muskie

More info:

Page 2

http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/info/sep01.pdf

:wink: :wink:


----------



## FishlakeElkHunter

I wish they would KILL every TM in Utah.............Just a trash fish IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## handsomefish

In 2007 the spearfishing bag limit was two game fish with only one over 20" which allowed spearfishermen the (loophole) to take larger smallmouth from jordanelle
In 2008 it was changed to the same as angling, including any specific water restrictions
So according to fish lake rules on lake trout and last years spearfishing regs. for the last two years spearfishermen could harvest one large and one under 20"
Thats not what I saw in the pictures
With the new reg. change we are now on a level playing field
Which is how it should be
If there had been a picture of a group of anglers each holding 
two large lake it would have ment the same thing( the second fish was taken illeaglly)


----------



## scubadown16

You guys really should learn to read your rules for past years... 

One. Spearfishing for tiger muskie is legal has been legal and will continue to be legal... Past years we could harvest two game fish. Period.. Some bodies of water had surtain restrictions. Fish lake never had a restriction on tiger muskie.

Two.. Yes we have to fallow the same laws as hook and line... So we are only allowed two LAKE TROUT from fish lake with only one being over 20 inches in length... If you guys would have read this entire thread you would have read that most of these fish that are pictured are SPLAKE TROUT. NOT LAKE TROUT. Which we are allowed four trout. There is no restriction on size limit of a splake trout. For the Record once again. If you want to argue weather or not the fish pictured are lake trout. I will send you a signed letter from three DNR officers present at the time of the pictures that the fish pictured are SPlAKE TROUT except Three of them are LAKE TROUT. So your beating a dead horse badly. 

The guy who never saw the picture of tiger muskie being taken out of fish lake here it is again..
ENJOY
James Hardesty


----------



## quakeycrazy

What in the Hell is wrong with them obeying the law and taking fish legally? So are you guys calling all the guys with LE rifle elk tags during the rut poachers too? Get over yourselves, if you want to bitch and moan about it take it up with the DWR, they are the ones that made the rule and can do away with it too.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

That's a great photo. Spearing muskies would be a hoot.


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

Soooooooooo, O.k Then.


Did you guys hear, Scofields going to a slot limit similar to Strawberry, starting Jan 1.


----------



## Jacksonman

Just seeing that Musky picture proves the point that spearfishing is much more like hunting than fishing, to the extent that it is much easier to land and kill and selectively target LARGE GAME FISH. They have three large musky in that photo and I can almost guarantee that three musky have not been caught by H&L fishermen at Fish Lake all year. (I have only heard of one being caught there ever).

Don't get me wrong - looks like a blast and I would consider trying it. I just feel that at certain lakes, and with certain species, spearhunting should be regulated much like hunting is regulated.

I too will agree that the 20 or so fish taken from Fish Lake will likely not affect the mac population too much. The concern that most of us have is that this sport will take off and why wouldn't it - just look at the pictures of huge trophy fish all taken on the same day. And the sport does look totally awesome and appears to be a primitive way of hunting fish. 

If it were up to me, spearfishing would be completely legal year around, except for a few trophy lakes and certain species. I see no reason to allow spearfishing of Lake Trout (or splake) at Fish Lake and Flaming Gorge, of Pike at Yuba, of Musky anywhere, at Strawberry. Spearfishing should be legal at all put and take fisheries for common species but prized and rare trophies should not be spearfished at all, and if allowed, highly highly regulated. That's all.


----------



## Jacksonman

And yes, I think the new slot on cutts and tigers is well-needed and well-past due. I can only imagine how big those tigers are going to get in the next year or two.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Spear fishing is not a NEW sport, nor has it been kept a secret. It is obviously regulated, but not to socialist specs, so maybe therein lies the problem. :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Can't have some of the kids not getting a trophy.


----------



## scubadown16

Spearfishing has been around for more years then Hook and Line... Its not a new sport... Its NOT going to just take off and explode with people... Trust me if I could get 5 new spearos to join our little group of people a year that would be great. I think that its fine to put slop limits on fish... We as spearos enjoy the challenge of hunting fish. If we have to play by sertain rules we do. But think about this for a second... Hook and line guys catch a fish. Its under the slot limit. They put it back. Now the fish dies because of what ever reason. Everyone is safe except the fish. Now a spearfishermen sees what is a legal fish and takes it. It turns out to be a touch short. What should that spearfishermen do??? If he keeps it he is breaking the law. If he releases it. It for sure will die and that is a waste and is un-ethical... 

I think a good compramise to all of this is simple. Allow spearfishermen to take 1 big fish say over 20 inches. And then 5 or so fish that are under 20 inches. Its much easier to guess a length underwater that is shorter then one that is larger. 

Another thing I want to say is this... I have spoken with a fair number of divers over the week about hunting at fish lake... One thing keeps coming up... That is the amount of carp that are being seen at the lake. I spoke to one gentleman who has dove this lake for many many years. He said that in years past he might see one carp in about 3 trips to the lake. Recently he has seen as many as 50 carp in a single day. No matter how much we spearfish we are never going to control a problem fish like the carp at fish lake. Now how many eggs are going to be eaten by all those carp... Its not the spearfishermen who are going to put a dent in the lake trout fishery there. Its the carp,suckers,and perch. 

Food for thought..
James Hardesty


----------



## mjschijf

scubadown16 said:


> Spearfishing has been around for more years then Hook and Line... Its not a new sport... Its NOT going to just take off and explode with people... Trust me if I could get 5 new spearos to join our little group of people a year that would be great. I think that its fine to put slop limits on fish... We as spearos enjoy the challenge of hunting fish. If we have to play by sertain rules we do. But think about this for a second... Hook and line guys catch a fish. Its under the slot limit. They put it back. Now the fish dies because of what ever reason. Everyone is safe except the fish. Now a spearfishermen sees what is a legal fish and takes it. It turns out to be a touch short. What should that spearfishermen do??? If he keeps it he is breaking the law. If he releases it. It for sure will die and that is a waste and is un-ethical...
> 
> I think a good compramise to all of this is simple. Allow spearfishermen to take 1 big fish say over 20 inches. And then 5 or so fish that are under 20 inches. Its much easier to guess a length underwater that is shorter then one that is larger.
> 
> Another thing I want to say is this... I have spoken with a fair number of divers over the week about hunting at fish lake... One thing keeps coming up... That is the amount of carp that are being seen at the lake. I spoke to one gentleman who has dove this lake for many many years. He said that in years past he might see one carp in about 3 trips to the lake. Recently he has seen as many as 50 carp in a single day. No matter how much we spearfish we are never going to control a problem fish like the carp at fish lake. Now how many eggs are going to be eaten by all those carp... Its not the spearfishermen who are going to put a dent in the lake trout fishery there. Its the carp,suckers,and perch.
> 
> Food for thought..
> James Hardesty


Interesting. I've never heard of carp being in Fish Lake.

Hey Chris, if you're still reading this, in all of your trips to Fish Lake how many carp have you caught?


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

> Interesting. I've never heard of carp being in Fish Lake.
> 
> *Hey Chris, if you're still reading this, in all of your trips to Fish Lake how many carp have you caught?*


Your a bad man mslkgdfjkhjf.


----------



## PBH

scubadown16 said:


> Spearfishing has been around for more years then Hook and Line... Its not a new sport... Its NOT going to just take off and explode with people... Trust me if I could get 5 new spearos to join our little group of people a year that would be great. I think that its fine to put slop limits on fish...


Please read: http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gf ... ead#unread

I'm curious to know how you feel about the regulation change that made it possible to spear spawning lake trout at Fish Lake. Are you aware (I'm sure you are...) that you have not had this opportunity in the past?

Are there other lakes that allow spearfishing of lake trout during the spawn?

PBH


----------



## PBH

scubadown16 said:


> The guy who never saw the picture of tiger muskie being taken out of fish lake here it is again..
> ENJOY
> James Hardesty


James -- isn't it a statewide 1 tiger musky over 40" regulation? That includes Fish Lake. Your holding 3 TM's that appear to be under 40". Doesn't that put you in violation of the law? With photographic evidence?

Scary. A name and a picture to prove it. wow.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Has it always been 1 over 40"?


----------



## PBH

for as long as I remember it has been.


----------



## .45

Blah...blah...blah....

If only I had a key.....I'd lock this up..... :|


----------



## element

> Scary. A name and a picture to prove it. wow.


Thats not James in that picture. I dont think James has even taken a muskie yet. That picture wasnt taken this year, I saw this picture last year. If it was taken in 2007 you could take one Muskie over 20 inches according to the 07 reg book. I see two divers in the picture and one taking the picture. Probably three divers and three fish.


----------



## XxFIREBOYxX

Anyone got any Tylenol?


----------



## Jacksonman

I am not so concerned with what has been taken thus far or finding some technicality by which to bust the spearfishermen. I believe that they followed the law to the best of their knowledge and what they did was legal.

My concern is with future management of spearhunting. It looks like an awesome sport that requires some crazy skills but regardless, certain lakes and species must be protected.

We should not trash or blame the participants who legally had a blast shooting some trophy fish. We should be putting forth our efforts to make sure that no long-term damage that cannot be undone be done by spearhunters. I am not extremely knowledgeable about the affects of freshwater spearfishing, especially on certain lakes with certain species, and hope that there are some studies conducted and regulations changed according to the findings of those studies.


----------



## mjschijf

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Interesting. I've never heard of carp being in Fish Lake.
> 
> *Hey Chris, if you're still reading this, in all of your trips to Fish Lake how many carp have you caught?*
> 
> 
> 
> Your a bad man mslkgdfjkhjf.
Click to expand...

Two things: first, who is mslkgdfjkhjf? Second, why is he a bad man?


----------



## mjschijf

PBH said:


> scubadown16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy who never saw the picture of tiger muskie being taken out of fish lake here it is again..
> ENJOY
> James Hardesty
> 
> 
> 
> James -- isn't it a statewide 1 tiger musky over 40" regulation? That includes Fish Lake. Your holding 3 TM's that appear to be under 40". Doesn't that put you in violation of the law? With photographic evidence?
> 
> Scary. A name and a picture to prove it. wow.
Click to expand...

+1

Not only do they have 3 Muskies for 2 people (which is illegal regardless of size), but also I highly doubt that all 3 of them are over 40 inches (also illegal). That makes 2 counts of illegality.

Explain that one, James.


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Is that fish lake in the back ground, for sure?


----------



## mjschijf

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Is that fish lake in the back ground, for sure?


I'm not sure, I've never been there. He claimed it to be Fish Lake though. Here is his exact quote: "The guy who never saw the picture of tiger muskie being taken out of fish lake here it is again."

Either he is screwing with our heads, or we caught him red handed.

Oh, and can we move this thread to fishing discussions now? I have no problem with this thread existing, but I think some people are getting annoyed by it being in the "reports" section. Like...maybe .45? :lol:


----------



## .45

It looks like Fish Lake to me......

I'm just tired of the whole thing in general.....how much more can we kick a sleeping dog?


----------



## element

Though you might like to hear the DWR response.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Mike Ottenbacher <[email protected]> wrote:
Cory:

Thanks for your input. The recent spear fishing tournament and
associated pictures posted on the internet of large lake trout taken
during the event have generated controversy and emotion. I understand
the concern of anglers who have an interest in Fish Lake and
particularly those who pursue lake trout. Although it's an emotional
issue for many, here are a few facts.

The tournament was held on October 4 & 5 and had 15 participants. The
harvest included game fish and nongame fish. 13 larger lake trout
(11-25 lbs) were taken.

Past studies have estimated the number of lake trout > 20 inches in the
lake at 1,100, so the harvest during the tournament probably represented
~1% of that group of fish. Harvest estimates of lake trout by rod and
reel at Fish Lake have ranged from 380 to 851 fish per year (this
includes all sizes).

Lake trout spawn during the month of October at Fish Lake, so any
increased vulnerability to harvest by spear fishing will end by the end
of this month.

No additional organized spear-fishing events are scheduled at Fish Lake
this year. Although some additional harvest may occur by individual
spear fishers this month, they are relatively few in number and travel
required and adverse diving conditions will likely limit further harvest
during the remainder of the spawning period and the remainder of the
spear-fishing season (through November).

We will continue to monitor the situation and take appropriate
measures. While resource protection and potential biological impacts to
the fishery resources at Fish Lake are our primary concern, we recognize
that there are additional issues that warrant review of the spear
fishing regulations for Fish Lake. We plan that review and
implementation of any subsequent amendments or changes to the fishing
rules prior to the lake trout spawning season next year.

I'd be happy to discuss the situation with anyone who has questions or
concerns.

Mike Ottenbacher
Regional Aquatics Manager
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
P. O. Box 606
Cedar City, UT 84721
Phone: (435) 865-6109
Fax: (435) 586-2457
[email protected]

P.S. Now's the time to buy that new 365-day Utah fishing license


----------



## mjschijf

element said:


> Though you might like to hear the DWR response.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Mike Ottenbacher <[email protected]> wrote:
> Cory:
> 
> Thanks for your input. The recent spear fishing tournament and
> associated pictures posted on the internet of large lake trout taken
> during the event have generated controversy and emotion. I understand
> the concern of anglers who have an interest in Fish Lake and
> particularly those who pursue lake trout. Although it's an emotional
> issue for many, here are a few facts.
> 
> The tournament was held on October 4 & 5 and had 15 participants. The
> harvest included game fish and nongame fish. 13 larger lake trout
> (11-25 lbs) were taken.
> 
> Past studies have estimated the number of lake trout > 20 inches in the
> lake at 1,100, so the harvest during the tournament probably represented
> ~1% of that group of fish. Harvest estimates of lake trout by rod and
> reel at Fish Lake have ranged from 380 to 851 fish per year (this
> includes all sizes).
> 
> Lake trout spawn during the month of October at Fish Lake, so any
> increased vulnerability to harvest by spear fishing will end by the end
> of this month.
> 
> No additional organized spear-fishing events are scheduled at Fish Lake
> this year. Although some additional harvest may occur by individual
> spear fishers this month, they are relatively few in number and travel
> required and adverse diving conditions will likely limit further harvest
> during the remainder of the spawning period and the remainder of the
> spear-fishing season (through November).
> 
> We will continue to monitor the situation and take appropriate
> measures. While resource protection and potential biological impacts to
> the fishery resources at Fish Lake are our primary concern, we recognize
> that there are additional issues that warrant review of the spear
> fishing regulations for Fish Lake. We plan that review and
> implementation of any subsequent amendments or changes to the fishing
> rules prior to the lake trout spawning season next year.
> 
> I'd be happy to discuss the situation with anyone who has questions or
> concerns.
> 
> Mike Ottenbacher
> Regional Aquatics Manager
> Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
> P. O. Box 606
> Cedar City, UT 84721
> Phone: (435) 865-6109
> Fax: (435) 586-2457
> [email protected]
> 
> P.S. Now's the time to buy that new 365-day Utah fishing license


Thanks for that, element. It's good to hear a response from an actual expert on the issue. My Dad is a retired game warden and he knows Mike Ottenbacher quite well. They have done some gill netting together.

Anyway, Mike knows what he's talking about, and it sounds like they knew what they were doing by allowing the spearfishing tournament to take place.

The only thing I'm still curious about is the Muskie photo. I just don't see how that can be legal. :?


----------



## orvis1

element said:


> Though you might like to hear the DWR response.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Mike Ottenbacher <[email protected]> wrote:
> Cory:
> 
> Thanks for your input. The recent spear fishing tournament and
> associated pictures posted on the internet of large lake trout taken
> during the event have generated controversy and emotion. I understand
> the concern of anglers who have an interest in Fish Lake and
> particularly those who pursue lake trout. Although it's an emotional
> issue for many, here are a few facts.
> 
> The tournament was held on October 4 & 5 and had 15 participants. The
> harvest included game fish and nongame fish. 13 larger lake trout
> (11-25 lbs) were taken.
> 
> Past studies have estimated the number of lake trout > 20 inches in the
> lake at 1,100, so the harvest during the tournament probably represented
> ~1% of that group of fish. Harvest estimates of lake trout by rod and
> reel at Fish Lake have ranged from 380 to 851 fish per year (this
> includes all sizes).
> 
> Lake trout spawn during the month of October at Fish Lake, so any
> increased vulnerability to harvest by spear fishing will end by the end
> of this month.
> 
> No additional organized spear-fishing events are scheduled at Fish Lake
> this year. Although some additional harvest may occur by individual
> spear fishers this month, they are relatively few in number and travel
> required and adverse diving conditions will likely limit further harvest
> during the remainder of the spawning period and the remainder of the
> spear-fishing season (through November).
> 
> We will continue to monitor the situation and take appropriate
> measures. While resource protection and potential biological impacts to
> the fishery resources at Fish Lake are our primary concern, we recognize
> that there are additional issues that warrant review of the spear
> fishing regulations for Fish Lake. We plan that review and
> implementation of any subsequent amendments or changes to the fishing
> rules prior to the lake trout spawning season next year.
> 
> I'd be happy to discuss the situation with anyone who has questions or
> concerns.
> 
> Mike Ottenbacher
> Regional Aquatics Manager
> Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
> P. O. Box 606
> Cedar City, UT 84721
> Phone: (435) 865-6109
> Fax: (435) 586-2457
> [email protected]
> 
> P.S. Now's the time to buy that new 365-day Utah fishing license


Same canned auto response I got as well. Always great to know they care and took the time to respond to your letter individually.


----------



## element

mjschijf said:


> The only thing I'm still curious about is the Muskie photo. I just don't see how that can be legal. :?


I will check with James on where he got that photo. I know I saw it last year so it wasnt under the current regulations for 08. I would bet that they were legal, we just dont have the whole story.


----------



## freepunk

Late getting to the party but I will clear up the muskie issue. 

From the proc last year:

"The underwater spearfishing bag and possession limit is two game fish. No more than one of those fish can be longer than 20 inches unless you’re fishing at Flaming Gorge Reservoir, where you can take one lake trout (mackinaw)
longer than 28 inches. Please see the Rules for Specific Waters section of this guide for more exceptions to these general underwater spearfishing rules."

Those guys in the pic did nothing illegal. If that pic was taken this year then its a different story. But I know for a fact thats last year and yes, it is fishlake.

Im sure James will chime in.


----------



## element

orvis1 said:


> Same canned auto response I got as well. Always great to know they care and took the time to respond to your letter individually.


He did put my name in it.  I would hate to write out the same email a hundred times too. I don't blame him.


----------



## PBH

freepunk said:


> Those guys in the pic did nothing illegal. .... But I know for a fact thats last year and yes, it is fishlake.
> 
> Im sure James will chime in.


I hope he does chime it. It is Fish Lake, but that doesn't really matter much.

From the 2007 Fishing Guide:

Tiger Muskellunge -- 1 over 40 inches.

From the 2006 Fishing Proclamation:

Tiger Muskellunge -- 1 over 40 inches.

In both 2006 and 2007 (and 2008) Tiger Musky in Fish Lake fall under the state wide regulation of 1 fish over 40 inches. Thanks for clearing up what year that was (2007). I'm sure that James will be getting a phone call - regardless of whether or not it's him in the picture. I'm sure James knows who they are...


----------



## freepunk

Those statewide bag and possession limits did not apply to spearfishing.

Taken from the 2007 proc on page 13 before the statewide bag and possession limits:

"The following fish bag and possession limits apply statewide, except as • provided in the Rules for Specific Waters and Underwater Spearfishing sections of this guide:"


----------



## element

PBH said:


> From the 2007 Fishing Guide:
> 
> Tiger Muskellunge -- 1 over 40 inches.


Which page please?

In 2007 the 40 inch rule applied to the following lakes/reservoirs...
Bullock
Cottonwood
Johnson
Mill Meadow
Newton
Pineview

I don't believe that there was a regulation for Fish Lake till this year according to my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## plottrunner

.45 said:


> It looks like Fish Lake to me......
> 
> I'm just tired of the whole thing in general.....how much more can we kick a sleeping dog?


I dont know we kicked the 1-I'ed mule deer for 2 years and 700+ posts lol


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

element said:


> PBH said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the 2007 Fishing Guide:
> 
> Tiger Muskellunge -- 1 over 40 inches.
> 
> 
> 
> Which page please?
> 
> In 2007 the 40 inch rule applied to the following lakes/reservoirs...
> Bullock
> Cottonwood
> Johnson
> Mill Meadow
> Newton
> Pineview
> 
> I don't believe that there was a regulation for Fish Lake till this year according to my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

You are not wrong. There is a new provision in the 08 proc stating spear fishing limits have been changed to be congruent with current regs.

Last year it was LEGAL to harvest 2 muskie with a spear, as long as one was under 20.


----------



## Poo Pie

plottrunner said:


> .45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like Fish Lake to me......
> 
> I'm just tired of the whole thing in general.....how much more can we kick a sleeping dog?
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know we kicked the 1-I'ed mule deer for 2 years and 700+ posts lol
Click to expand...

Don't forget he only had three legs too! 

Good night folks let's give this thing a rest.


----------



## Jitterbug

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Last year it was LEGAL to harvest 2 muskie with a spear, as long as one was under 20.


That's actually really interesting to me, Tree. I don't mean to be Mr. Smarty but how does one measure a 20" fish under water before shooting it with a spear gun? Seems to me there is a lot of opportunity to harvest an illegal fish even if you didn't mean too.

Just a thought... and i don't have any problem with this whole spearfishing thing as long as it was legal. That's kinda the whole point of having laws.


----------



## mjschijf

Jitterbug said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last year it was LEGAL to harvest 2 muskie with a spear, as long as one was under 20.
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually really interesting to me, Tree. I don't mean to be Mr. Smarty but how does one measure a 20" fish under water before shooting it with a spear gun? Seems to me there is a lot of opportunity to harvest an illegal fish even if you didn't mean too.
> 
> Just a thought... and i don't have any problem with this whole spearfishing thing as long as it was legal. That's kinda the whole point of having laws.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they are supposed to err on the side of caution if it's close. There really is no excuse for illegally killing a fish. That's just something you have to have in mind when going after fish with size restrictions.

If I were a spearfisherman, I wouldn't even bother with fish that have size restrictions for exactly that reason: there is always a chance of illegally killing a fish. That's just me though, to each their own.


----------



## plottrunner

Poo Pie said:


> plottrunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote=".45":1qnhrq32]It looks like Fish Lake to me......
> 
> I'm just tired of the whole thing in general.....how much more can we kick a sleeping dog?
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know we kicked the 1-I'ed mule deer for 2 years and 700+ posts lol
Click to expand...

Don't forget he only had three legs too! 

Good night folks let's give this thing a rest.[/quote:1qnhrq32]

Yeah wouldnt it have been cool if the three legged one eyed deer would have got shot with a spear gun? -O|o-


----------



## mjschijf

plottrunner said:


> Yeah wouldnt it have been cool if the three legged one eyed deer would have got shot with a spear gun? -O|o-


Plottrunner, shouldn't you be working on that website? -_O- :wink:


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Jitterbug said:


> Treehugnhuntr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last year it was LEGAL to harvest 2 muskie with a spear, as long as one was under 20.
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually really interesting to me, Tree. I don't mean to be Mr. Smarty but how does one measure a 20" fish under water before shooting it with a spear gun? Seems to me there is a lot of opportunity to harvest an illegal fish even if you didn't mean too.
> 
> Just a thought... and i don't have any problem with this whole spearfishing thing as long as it was legal. That's kinda the whole point of having laws.
Click to expand...

That's a good question. Fish always look bigger under water. I remember the first time I shot a few fish, which when underwater I thought to be in the 10" range. I got up to the boat and had a stringer of 6" fish.

Once you have done it a bit, it is fairly easy to judge fish size, but yes, erring to the side of caution is always a good idea. Even in the ocean they have size restrictions on fish, but if you pay attention and don't push the envelope, it is easy to stay within the parameters of stated regulations.


----------



## Poo Pie

plottrunner said:


> Poo Pie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> plottrunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know we kicked the 1-I'ed mule deer for 2 years and 700+ posts lol
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget he only had three legs too!
> 
> Good night folks let's give this thing a rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah wouldnt it have been cool if the three legged one eyed deer would have got shot with a spear gun? -O|o-
Click to expand...

Probably would be super easy- seeing that he only has three legs and one eye after all. Just think if he was spawning, err I mean rutted up too :wink:


----------



## scubadown16

Seeing how I am soooo Popular these days... Man my girlfriend doesn't get this much attention...But the fans want me to chim in.... Heres Your Sign.... 

On to more important things... 

ONE... YES I know who is in the photo.... Will I tell any of you.. HELL F U C NO. 

Two.... The fish were taken I believe last year or 06' I don't remember that exactly.

Three... One fish over 20iches and one under 20 inches was the law.. Pound sand if you don't like it... 

Four... Fish lake never had a size limit on tiger muskie till 08' 

Five... There are other States that allow the taking of Lake Trout. Wyoming for one. Hell they don't even have a season its open now year round and in all lakes.... HOW DO YOU LIKE THOSE APPLES. 

Six... Does anyone want to know were I'll be spearfishing this weekend???? I can tell you its going to be for some trout.... I'll give you a clue.... In fact lets make this a game... Instead of wheres WALDO... ITs called can we catch a spearfishermen doing something legal and pitch a fit... No thats to long... How about SPEARFISHING RULE-LET... As in know your rules and let it be...
My first clue is I have a year long Non-Resident liscens for this state... paid for on 5-14-08 with cash from a ace hardware store.... 
Tune in later this week to get more clues. 

Now that I have stir the pot... Lets see if the Crap will fly... I was getting tired of all the guys on here who keep beating down a dead dog... It was sleeping like at page 6 of this thread now its just dead.... We should all find other things to do with our time.... ME I AM GOING BACK TO GIVING MY GIRLFRIEND ATTENTION... 

James Hardesty


----------



## mjschijf

scubadown16 said:


> ME I AM GOING BACK TO GIVING MY GIRLFRIEND ATTENTION...


Good.


----------



## plottrunner

scubadown16 said:


> Seeing how I am soooo Popular these days... Man my girlfriend doesn't get this much attention...But the fans want me to chim in.... Heres Your Sign....
> 
> On to more important things...
> 
> ONE... YES I know who is in the photo.... *Will I tell any of you.. HELL F U C NO.*
> 
> Two.... The fish were taken I believe last year or 06' I don't remember that exactly.
> 
> Three... One fish over 20iches and one under 20 inches was the law.. *Pound sand if you don't like it...*
> 
> Four... Fish lake never had a size limit on tiger muskie till 08'
> 
> Five... There are other States that allow the taking of Lake Trout. Wyoming for one. Hell they don't even have a season its open now year round and in all lakes.... HOW DO YOU LIKE THOSE APPLES.
> 
> Six... Does anyone want to know were I'll be spearfishing this weekend???? I can tell you its going to be for some trout.... *I'll give you a clue.... In fact lets make this a game... Instead of wheres WALDO... ITs called can we catch a spearfishermen doing something legal and pitch a fit... No thats to long... How about SPEARFISHING RULE-LET... As in know your rules and let it be...*
> My first clue is I have a year long Non-Resident liscens for this state... paid for on 5-14-08 with cash from a ace hardware store....
> Tune in later this week to get more clues.
> 
> Now that I have stir the pot... Lets see if the Crap will fly... I was getting tired of all the guys on here who keep beating down a dead dog... It was sleeping like at page 6 of this thread now its just dead.... We should all find other things to do with our time.... ME I AM GOING BACK TO GIVING MY GIRLFRIEND ATTENTION...
> 
> James Hardesty


Wow whos panties are in a twist now............... Looks like an awful lot of work defending yourself considering youve done nothing wrong............ Is that caused by lack of oxygen from being under water to long..... curious minds want to know


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

I just wanted to make the 200 post. -*|*- -*|*- -*|*- *()* O-|-O

Damnit Plotty beat me to it. :x


----------



## scubadown16

plottrunner said:


> scubadown16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing how I am soooo Popular these days... Man my girlfriend doesn't get this much attention...But the fans want me to chim in.... Heres Your Sign....
> 
> On to more important things...
> 
> ONE... YES I know who is in the photo.... *Will I tell any of you.. HELL F U C NO.*
> 
> Two.... The fish were taken I believe last year or 06' I don't remember that exactly.
> 
> Three... One fish over 20iches and one under 20 inches was the law.. *Pound sand if you don't like it...*
> 
> Four... Fish lake never had a size limit on tiger muskie till 08'
> 
> Five... There are other States that allow the taking of Lake Trout. Wyoming for one. Hell they don't even have a season its open now year round and in all lakes.... HOW DO YOU LIKE THOSE APPLES.
> 
> Six... Does anyone want to know were I'll be spearfishing this weekend???? I can tell you its going to be for some trout.... *I'll give you a clue.... In fact lets make this a game... Instead of wheres WALDO... ITs called can we catch a spearfishermen doing something legal and pitch a fit... No thats to long... How about SPEARFISHING RULE-LET... As in know your rules and let it be...*
> My first clue is I have a year long Non-Resident liscens for this state... paid for on 5-14-08 with cash from a ace hardware store....
> Tune in later this week to get more clues.
> 
> Now that I have stir the pot... Lets see if the Crap will fly... I was getting tired of all the guys on here who keep beating down a dead dog... It was sleeping like at page 6 of this thread now its just dead.... We should all find other things to do with our time.... ME I AM GOING BACK TO GIVING MY GIRLFRIEND ATTENTION...
> 
> James Hardesty
> 
> 
> 
> Wow whos panties are in a twist now............... Looks like an awful lot of work defending yourself considering youve done nothing wrong............ Is that caused by lack of oxygen from being under water to long..... curious minds want to know
Click to expand...

My girlfriends panties are in a twist.... around me... she keeps tell me to get over here and stop typing... I think she thinks I am looking at on line porn or cyber sexing or something... She made me a nice LAKE TROUT/SPLAKE dinner tonight with mango lime butter sauce. Red bell peppers and peas along with holinday sauce on cous-cous. **** you guys are so wrong about how they taste... That stuff is good... Then she lit up some candles and got all sexy for me... But I keep typing away. So now you see who's panties are all in a bunch... Her's are... on the flow all tucked up neetly in a ball.. Wish I had time for everyone... Peace out..

James Hardesty


----------



## plottrunner

Now youve gone and done it scuba boy this thing will get locked for sure...........and I so wanted to beat the 1-I thread...........  Well I guess ill let you get back to your fishes..

>>O O<< -O<- sorry mods couldnt help myself


----------



## fixed blade XC-3

That last post reminds me of that song by Brad Pasily. What's it called so much cooler on line? 

R u a black belt in Karate? _(O)_


----------



## mjschijf

Why he kept coming back here after his girlfriend was getting all sexy for him is kind of making me question his...well, you know. :wink:

Scubadown, we just had some questions about spearfishing because so many of us aren't familiar with it. Plus you did kind of say some sketchy things and post some sketchy pictures that made us wonder if you were in fact abiding by the law. Us hook and line guys aren't all aware that there are different rules and regulations for spearfishermen. I never meant to attack you or try to make you feel unwelcome here. I just had a few questions, that you did in fact address. I just wish you weren't all "wow I'm so **** popular today and everyone loves me" about it. 

Ok that's it. I'm done with this thread.

P.S. Scubadown, if you're still with your girlfriend, please don't reply. You need to set your priorities straight. :lol:


----------



## Nueces

Nice looking meal there Scuba - makes my mouth water. I'm headed to the great outdoors and going to smile.


----------



## proutdoors

mjschijf said:


> Scubadown, we just had some questions about spearfishing because so many of us aren't familiar with it. Plus you did kind of say some sketchy things and post some sketchy pictures that made us wonder if you were in fact abiding by the law. Us hook and line guys aren't all aware that there are different rules and regulations for spearfishermen. I never meant to attack you or try to make you feel unwelcome here. I just had a few questions, that you did in fact address. I just wish you weren't all "wow I'm so **** popular today and everyone loves me" about it.


While I am not sure if you are 'innocent', I KNOW there are an awful lot of guys here who jumped all over these guys and implied they are lower than dirt for what they did/do. So, if scubadown fires back a little, can you really blame him? I think he has shown incredible restraint. Those of you who have slammed him, threatened him, called him every dirty name in the book, *SHAME ON YOU!* It is YOU that have given 'fishing' a bad image. I am at a loss why people act like this, I see this way too often whenever fishermen/hunters/business people are successful/BETTER than others. Grow up, get over it, or get better at doing it!


----------



## Christopher30

Wow, the angle he took at first is a little different then the one he's taking now, you guys must have gotten to him......


----------



## El Sombrero

Christopher30 said:


> Wow, the angle he took at first is a little different then the one he's taking now, you guys must have gotten to him......


He has no idea what he has unleashed.


----------



## HOGAN

Hey Scuba, you should chill you are making yourself look bad.


----------



## Nor-tah

Wait is scuba the fat one in these pics? I bet his girlfriend is a keeper. :|


----------



## CRH

Speaking of keepers. 
Enjoy some of these.
















I had to share some of this catch with the tax collector! (Shark just incase you didnt know)

































These are just a few of the "keepers". There are so much more and a lot more to come. UTAH or bust! j/k calm down. Maybe.

on a serious note, Scuba was just frustrated like I was the other night. We dont mind answering your questions but I hate to answer the same ones over and over and over! If these guys that are jumping in late in the game would take the time to freakin read the entire thread their questions would be answered more than once. I can see that some of you guys understand. 
Take care and PM me with any questions.

BTW Inspector Gadget, I did speed on the way to Utah. Please dont tell. :lol:


----------



## scubadown16

Nor-tah said:


> Wait is scuba the fat one in these pics? I bet his girlfriend is a keeper. :|


What are you talking about "Fat" I am in shape... Last I looked ROUND WAS A SHAPE... Right... Or am I wrong at that too.... I do step on a scale once in a while... But it says " To BE Continued"

So my point in all this is you don't need to be skinny or a super athlete to spearfish... Just a keen sense of hunting... Or the ablility in reading rules that help you to shot fish in a "WEAK SPAWNING AND CAN'T SWIM AWAY MOOD" depending on which side of this dead dog you stand....

I would post pictures to defend my girlfriend... BUT GIRLS IN SMALL BIKINIS SHOOTING BIG FISH MIGHT GET YOU GUYS WAY TO FIRED UP.... 8) Plus I don't need all you sport fishermen with your over weight beer bellies hanging out. Pulling up to my new favorite hunting hole of a lake asking how I got a chick like that. I'll save you the guess work... ITS CAUSE I AM RICH. and I have personality that makes me funny as hell.


----------



## HOGAN

Vanessa....been there done that.


----------



## CRH

a couple more.....

















I dont want you guys thinking we are trophy hunters...............


----------



## Nor-tah

How much did you have to pay that one to stand next to you. Sorry I dont drink beer... Personal choice that keeps me in better shape. I knew you would bite on this one... haha Hook line and sinker 8) Why you buried in the sand anyway?


----------



## scubadown16

Chad if we are going to throw up pictures lets get real those are small ones lets try this out.

Lets see... Who has the biggiest...... FISH.... Contest


----------



## mjschijf

proutdoors said:
 

> mjschijf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scubadown, we just had some questions about spearfishing because so many of us aren't familiar with it. Plus you did kind of say some sketchy things and post some sketchy pictures that made us wonder if you were in fact abiding by the law. Us hook and line guys aren't all aware that there are different rules and regulations for spearfishermen. I never meant to attack you or try to make you feel unwelcome here. I just had a few questions, that you did in fact address. I just wish you weren't all "wow I'm so **** popular today and everyone loves me" about it.
> 
> 
> 
> While I am not sure if you are 'innocent', I KNOW there are an awful lot of guys here who jumped all over these guys and implied they are lower than dirt for what they did/do. So, if scubadown fires back a little, can you really blame him? I think he has shown incredible restraint. Those of you who have slammed him, threatened him, called him every dirty name in the book, *SHAME ON YOU!* It is YOU that have given 'fishing' a bad image. I am at a loss why people act like this, I see this way too often whenever fishermen/hunters/business people are successful/BETTER than others. Grow up, get over it, or get better at doing it!
Click to expand...

Of course Pro would just happen to quote me. I didn't even start participating in the discussion til like, oh I don't know...page 15 or so! :roll:

I think Pro hates me. :|

I thought I was pretty respectful until Scubadown's last post. I even said "welcome to the forum" when I jumped into the discussion. I know some of the posts on this thread got pretty messy, and I agree that all of us didn't provide the warmest welcome for Scubadown to the forum when we probably should have. But all I wanted was a couple of explanations. Don't see anything wrong there.

You can't really expect people NOT to question you when you post a picture in which two people have 3 Tiger Muskies between them, when that is illegal with the CURRENT regulations. Yeah, Scubadown claims it was caught before the current regulations took effect, and I have no reason to not believe him. Once I found out that the spearfishing regulations for Muskies used to be different, I immediately stopped pursuing that argument.

So I admit that overall we weren't very respectful to Scubadown, don't blame us for trying to find out some rather important information that he didn't originally provide.

I'm so sick of this thread. Does any of this really matter anymore? This has advanced so far beyond the original topic of discussion, it's insane. And yes, I admit I am partially to blame.


----------



## CRH

Do you guys have pics of your catches?


----------



## HOGAN

yes


----------



## .45

HOGAN said:


> yes


Well, lets see 'em......never call back HOGAN !! :mrgreen:


----------



## CRH

No fish was harmed during the making of these pictures. :shock: 
Of course I am kidding, but I did eat all the fish that I have posted. I am sure SCUBA did as well. 

"yes"
Well would you share them? Or would you be ostersized by the H&L bretheren? (serious)


----------



## Jitterbug

scubadown16, CRH - ever made any east coast trips? I'd love to see some of those pics, while you're at it!


----------



## Nor-tah

[attachment=0:1gruygsj]Vanessa%20sand%20box.jpg[/attachment:1gruygsj]
Wait who pounds sand? Ok I am done this is funny to me and you guys have real comments about this, sorry I just got sucked in by the drama.....


----------



## HOGAN

.45 said:


> HOGAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes
> 
> 
> 
> Well, lets see 'em......never call back HOGAN !! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

It was snowing, I did not think I had too????? :lol: We will get one going.


----------



## HOGAN

CRH said:


> No fish was harmed during the making of these pictures. :shock:
> Of course I am kidding, but I did eat all the fish that I have posted. I am sure SCUBA did as well.
> 
> "yes"
> Well would you share them? Or would you be ostersized by the H&L bretheren? (serious)


H&L ? I am working on a pic or two. The DNR has taken me off of their web site. I was going to give you a link. It is of a real splake out of fish lake. Well at least you can tell it is a splke, all of you guys pics look as if they are lake trout.


----------



## CRH

:lol:


HOGAN said:


> CRH said:
> 
> 
> 
> No fish was harmed during the making of these pictures. :shock:
> Of course I am kidding, but I did eat all the fish that I have posted. I am sure SCUBA did as well.
> 
> "yes"
> Well would you share them? Or would you be ostersized by the H&L bretheren? (serious)
> 
> 
> 
> H&L ? I am working on a pic or two. The DNR has taken me off of their web site. I was going to give you a link. It is of a real splake out of fish lake. Well at least you can tell it is a splke, all of you guys pics look as if they are lake trout.
Click to expand...

H&L=hook & line

the majority of our fish were Splake, there were Macks/Lake trout as well. I believe 13 to be exact for 15 divers. But we would like to see some of your catches too. I have a lot I just posted some from when I lived in Hawaii and some from around here. (CO)

JitterBug, I believe SCUBA (James) may have, I havent since I started spearing.

Nor-Tah, 
that is hilarious. I am sure he was "pounding" some sand.


----------



## HOGAN

http://utahwildlife.net/dwr_forum/viewt ... f4df931ff6

off of the old forum


----------



## Nor-tah

Hey CRH how do you land some of those fish? From what I have heard those tuna and jacks are STRONG fish. So how do you keep from drowning? Is there a line attached to the spear to let a fish run?

Nice fish Hogan. That Splake is BEAUTIFUL.


----------



## CRH

Nice catch Hogan. Sucker meat huh, I heard that was great bait. I wish someone would have wanted the 150+ suckers we killed. They could of had bait for a life time. 


now about landing those big fish. There are many different methods to land a huge fish like those. What method you use really depends on what kind of fish you are hunting. If you are hunting reef fish then you can use a reel atttached to your gun, so say you shoot a nice sized reef fish,they will pull the line of the reel just like a rod n reel. You have drag and everything. YOu would let them run and hole up. Reef fish almost always hole up to try and hide. Then you go down remove them from hole and brain them (knife in the brain). you dont have to use a reel, you can just let your gun go and follow it, hook a line to your gun then to your float. Many options. Also on reef fish we use a polespear/three prong which is a pole with a rubber band on one end and a spear or three prong spear on the other. It isnt attached to anything. You have to get really close to fish with these, they have a shorter range but are a great way to learn how to spearfish. I like to start people out on polespear so they can learn the behavior patterns and hone their stalking skills, which doesnt happen over night. You have to remember we are in their elements not ours, they have the advantage and GILLS. 
If you are hunting Pelagic fish like tuna, Mahi mahi and so on you would use break away set up. A line directly from your spear to your float system, the floats would be used to tire the fish out and allow you to track it as it speeds across the open blue. Some people use a reel on the gun and attach a line from gun to float as well. 
There are a lot of methods. 

Great question!


----------



## CRH

BTW, I was wondering if someone could/would change the title to this thread? If not cool, if so even better!


----------



## Nor-tah

That is pretty cool. Thanks for the response... Wish I was a better swimmer.


----------



## scubadown16

Sorry No east Coast pictures... I have friends that shot big Stipers up in Rhode Island though... Maybe some day. I'll make it there.


----------



## PBH

scubadown16 said:


> Four... Fish lake never had a size limit on tiger muskie till 08'


Untrue -- it fell under the state wide general limit of 1 fish over 40". If there are no special regulations for a body of water, then the state wide general regulations takes precedence. 1 TM over 40".


----------



## wyoming2utah

PBH said:


> scubadown16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Four... Fish lake never had a size limit on tiger muskie till 08'
> 
> 
> 
> Untrue -- it fell under the state wide general limit of 1 fish over 40". If there are no special regulations for a body of water, then the state wide general regulations takes precedence. 1 TM over 40".
Click to expand...

Looking back through the statewide regulations, tiger musky have been listed under the statewide general limit as 1 fish over 40 inches back to at least 2005...anyone taking/harvesting fish over or outside of this slot would be in violation of the regulation.


----------



## orvis1.2

wyoming2utah said:


> PBH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scubadown16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Four... Fish lake never had a size limit on tiger muskie till 08'
> 
> 
> 
> Untrue -- it fell under the state wide general limit of 1 fish over 40". If there are no special regulations for a body of water, then the state wide general regulations takes precedence. 1 TM over 40".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking back through the statewide regulations, tiger musky have been listed under the statewide general limit as 1 fish over 40 inches back to at least 2005...anyone taking/harvesting fish over or outside of this slot would be in violation of the regulation.
Click to expand...

Scubadown16 Just got PWNED! LOL!


----------



## rick_rudder

FishlakeElkHunter said:


> I wish they would KILL every TM in Utah.............Just a trash fish IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!


I hate fish i cant catch to!


----------



## Huge29

CRH said:


> BTW, I was wondering if someone could/would change the title to this thread? If not cool, if so even better!


I don't think it can be changed except by mods after 1,000 minutes after the original post or something like that...

Good info guys, interesting sport.


----------



## GaryFish

So what should we change the name to? "Do deer poop in clumps?"


----------



## scubadown16

quote]

Looking back through the statewide regulations, tiger musky have been listed under the statewide general limit as 1 fish over 40 inches back to at least 2005...anyone taking/harvesting fish over or outside of this slot would be in violation of the regulation.[/quote]

Scubadown16 Just got PWNED! LOL![/quote]

Awww... Is that the best you got....

Try this on for size dip Sh*T
http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/200 ... ishing.pdf 
Page 10 Underwater speafishing Rules...
We were exempt from the 40 inch rule till this year.... Moron 
Call Mike O. at the DNR and ask him...

It wouldn't matter anyways.. Those fish were if I recall.. 40 inches on the nose... LOL Keep digging guys.. Maybe you might find China... You guys are pethetic with your name calling and witch hunt... I know its October but maybe you should find better things to do with your lives.... I guess you can be nice for only so long... But when you repeat yourselves time and time and time and time again... Its a broken record and I am done trying to be nice and work with the guys who don't want us shooting the lake trout....

:evil: SO I SAY IT LOUD AND PROUD.... I WAS ALMOST WILLING TO WORK WITH THE FEW WHO WERE NICE AND POLLIGHT WITH US... BUT SOME OF YOU ARE JUST THICK HEADED AND DON'T LISTEN OR YOUR TO LAZY TO READ THIS WHOLE THREAD. SO BEING THAT YOUR SO BENT ON PUSHING TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG WITH WHAT WE/I/ MY FELLOW SPEAROS DO. I GUESS YOU CAN SIT BACK AND WATCH THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS PICTURES BE POSTED ON THIS BOARD... ALL OF COURSE LEGAL AS HELL. I AM GOING TO SMASH THE WORLD RECORD AGAIN OR AT LEAST TRY MY DAMNDIST THEN POST ABOUT IT EVERYWHERE JUST LIKE YOU ALL DID... I AM GOING TO INVITE EVERY SPEARFISHERMAN I KNOW TO JOIN ME TOO( http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?p= ... post804431 ).... I BET I CAN FIND A FISH OVER 40 POUNDS IN EITHER FLAMING GORGE OR FISH LAKE.... I AM GOING TO PUT MY SHAFT RIGHT NEXT TO HIM THEN PULL THE TRIGGER... BLOW A HUGE HOLE IN THE SIDE. THEN CLEAN THE FISH. PRE-PAIR HIM UP NICELY FOR MY DOG TO EAT. THEN POST A PICTURE OF THAT... THEN LET YOU ALL CHEW ON THAT. THEN HEAD OUT THE NEXT WEEKEND AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. HOW MANY FISH DO YOU THINK I CAN TAKE THEN... OF COURSE ALL LEGAL AND ON THE UP AND UP AT LEAST FOR TWO MORE MONTHS. WHO KNOWS MAYBE EVEN NEXT YEAR... :evil:

I am done with responding to name calling and this public linching of something that is totally legal... I know you may find what I have said to be wrong and un ethical but what I see happening here is way worse then taking any fish....

James Hardesty


----------



## mjschijf

For the love of God, can we please lay this thread to rest now?


----------



## rick_rudder

scubadown16 said:


> quote]
> 
> Looking back through the statewide regulations, tiger musky have been listed under the statewide general limit as 1 fish over 40 inches back to at least 2005...anyone taking/harvesting fish over or outside of this slot would be in violation of the regulation.


Scubadown16 Just got PWNED! LOL![/quote]

Awww... Is that the best you got....

Try this on for size dip Sh*T
http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/200 ... ishing.pdf 
Page 10 Underwater speafishing Rules...
We were exempt from the 40 inch rule till this year.... Moron 
Call Mike O. at the DNR and ask him...

It wouldn't matter anyways.. Those fish were if I recall.. 40 inches on the nose... LOL Keep digging guys.. Maybe you might find China... You guys are pethetic with your name calling and witch hunt... I know its October but maybe you should find better things to do with your lives.... I guess you can be nice for only so long... But when you repeat yourselves time and time and time and time again... Its a broken record and I am done trying to be nice and work with the guys who don't want us shooting the lake trout....

:evil: SO I SAY IT LOUD AND PROUD.... I WAS ALMOST WILLING TO WORK WITH THE FEW WHO WERE NICE AND POLLIGHT WITH US... BUT SOME OF YOU ARE JUST THICK HEADED AND DON'T LISTEN OR YOUR TO LAZY TO READ THIS WHOLE THREAD. SO BEING THAT YOUR SO BENT ON PUSHING TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG WITH WHAT WE/I/ MY FELLOW SPEAROS DO. I GUESS YOU CAN SIT BACK AND WATCH THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS PICTURES BE POSTED ON THIS BOARD... ALL OF COURSE LEGAL AS HELL. I AM GOING TO SMASH THE WORLD RECORD AGAIN OR AT LEAST TRY MY DAMNDIST THEN POST ABOUT IT EVERYWHERE JUST LIKE YOU ALL DID... I AM GOING TO INVITE EVERY SPEARFISHERMAN I KNOW TO JOIN ME TOO.... I BET I CAN FIND A FISH OVER 40 POUNDS IN EITHER FLAMING GORGE OR FISH LAKE.... I AM GOING TO PUT MY SHAFT RIGHT NEXT TO HIM THEN PULL THE TRIGGER... BLOW A HUGE HOLE IN THE SIDE. THEN CLEAN THE FISH. PRE-PAIR HIM UP NICELY FOR MY DOG TO EAT. THEN POST A PICTURE OF THAT... THEN LET YOU ALL CHEW ON THAT. THEN HEAD OUT THE NEXT WEEKEND AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. HOW MANY FISH DO YOU THINK I CAN TAKE THEN... OF COURSE ALL LEGAL AND ON THE UP AND UP AT LEAST FOR TWO MORE MONTHS. WHO KNOWS MAYBE EVEN NEXT YEAR... :evil:

I am done with responding to name calling and this public linching of something that is totally legal... I know you may find what I have said to be wrong and un ethical but what I see happening here is way worse then taking any fish....

James Hardesty[/quote]
I fed my dog fish before, i guess i didnt prepare it right, i had a god awful mess in the morning, id keep him or her outside after feeding


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## GaryFish

Sorry for the attacks there James. Spearfishing is pretty new to this crowd. 

As with any sport, I hope that respect for skills in legal endeavors can be displayed. And appreciation for skills required to succeed can be shown. 

Apparently many cannot do that, so I'll lock this thing down.

Gary


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