# PLATEAU, FISHLAKE/THOUSAND LAKE (MID) COW ELK HUNT



## crazytohunt (Aug 3, 2009)

I DREW A COW ELK TAG FOR THIS AREA AND HAVE NEVER HUNTED IT BEFORE. IT WAS MY THIRD CHOICE AND AM LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THIS AREA AND WHERE THE ELK ARE LOCATED. I DREW THE MID SEASON WHICH STARTS IN NOVEMBER 14-29 AND IF I WOULD HAVE ANY LUCK WITH FILLING MY TAG. I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE THE INFO.
THANKS


----------



## hockey (Nov 7, 2007)

Reserve your seat early and make sure you have plenty of popcorn and drink, cause it's gonna be a circus up there!!!!!


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

They plan on executing 50% of the elk population, seems like yesterday they did that. But hey every 3-4 years every swingindick that wants a tag goes down and shoots until one drops. What a disaster, do we ever learn from our mistakes? No I400 for this unit any time soon. What a joke.


----------



## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree Hogan, eight years ago the DWR had a stupid idea to sell cow tags for twenty bucks I think every hunter showed up. I drove up two days after the hunt started. I couldn't believe all the cows hanging in trees and in trucks. We turned around and left, my dad said he didn't want to shoot the last cow on Fishlake.

The next year there were no cow tags given out, they blamed it on winter kill? The only thing is we started a drought that year! I wonder what they'll use for a excuse next year?


----------



## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED!!!!!

Myself and all of my family put in for Cow tags hoping that we would draw so that we could take the tags and burn them before the hunt even started. But of course, we only drew 1 tag out of 10 that put in for them. I can PROMISE YOU that there will be ONE tag that will go unfilled on this hunt!!!!!!!

STUPID FREAKING DWR!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

I guess we could look @ the only bright side in this, a mature tag will be very easy to draw the next few years. Killing the elk off does a # on mature elk too, they go else where. Also the cows getting executed should taste pretty good because they can't be that old. Stupid ranchers need more feed for their **** cattle is more than likley the blame.


----------



## crazytohunt (Aug 3, 2009)

THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION BUT NONE OF THIS REALLY ANSWERED MY QUESTION REALLY. I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF ANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN ANY ELK AROUND THIS AREA? AND IF YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE ANY LUCK FILLING MY TAG? I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT IF SOMEONE COULD HELP ME ANSWER THOSE TWO QUESTIONS. 
THANKS


----------



## Derek4747 (Jun 23, 2008)

Crazytohunt,

It really should be an easy tag to fill. There is a large elk herd on this unit. You will have a lot of other hunters out there as previous posts suggest. Hard to say exactly where you will find elk due to weather conditions. I have a Thousand Lake Muzzleloader deer tag and will keep an eye out for any elk


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

1-Try asking with the caps off.
2-Why not just join a hunting forum and ask someone that knows instead of scouting, then after I get the info never post again and a big thanks for nothing.
3-In all honesty I hope you fail to get a elk on your hunt. There are 4000-4200 elk on the range, you will be involved in killing half of them. If you do shoot one, tag out whether you find it or not. and in alll honesty Good luck, if I or anyone else tells you where the elk will be it will not be a hunt it will be a slaughter.


----------



## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey, Hogan is right about the caps, QUIT YELLING! I have found that most of the people here are willing to help if you go about it right. 
You should have no problem finding elk if you put a little effort in it. I also noticed on your spike elk post that you have seen cows around Anthony Flat and Molly's Nipple areas, check topo maps for likely migration routes and you will find the critters. 
Also if you will research this forum you can probably find old info on this area from previous posts or check out Jesse's Outdoor Forum. Great people in both sites but don't yell at them and have some ideas for areas to ask about, Fishlake covers a lot of real estate.
For the record I hunted Fishlake last year and tagged out opening day, not hard to do, lots of elk there.


----------



## crazytohunt (Aug 3, 2009)

Sorry about the caps i just did it so i did not have to capatalize anything. sorry if it seemed like i was yelling but i wasnt. thanks for all your guys help.


----------



## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> 3-In all honesty I hope you fail to get a elk on your hunt. There are 4000-4200 elk on the range, you will be involved in killing half of them. If you do shoot one, tag out whether you find it or not. and in alll honesty Good luck, if I or anyone else tells you where the elk will be it will not be a hunt it will be a slaughter.


Pardon my ignorance, but did they really issue THAT many tags again for that unit this year? I was half contemplating stopping in there with my archery tag on the way back from lake powell this year, because I had been down there fishing last weekend with the kids and just loved how beautiful the terrain there was. I've held off trying that area out because I remember them slaughtering the herd a few years back, and thought maybe it had somewhat recovered by now. I don't know aty this point, I'd feel a little guilty chasing elk on this unit now.


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Archery hunt there this year should be fun, yes the herd has recovered from the slaughter,....finally. That is why it really baffles me they are doing it again. And my #'s are not inflated. But archery for cow or spike will be fun again for this year anyway. I highly recommend stopping in and "trying it out". If you need or want some pointers shoot me a pm, would be glad to help out. I am not willing to help out someone with a rifle, when they are giving out way too many permits, and if it snows, well, fish in a barrell.


----------



## greatwhitehunter (Nov 16, 2007)

crazytohunt,
I'll share what I learned about the area when I was down there last week. I looked for elk for a total of 2 hours and saw well over 100 head. Out of all the elk I saw, 22 were cows. The rest were bulls in fairly large groups. I've never seen that many bulls in that short of a time period. Good luck finding a cow because there sure was a lack of them in the area I looked at.


----------



## TAY (Feb 13, 2008)

What a bunch of babies!!! "If you have a achery tag I will help you" but not if you have a rifle tag. Crazy2hunt shoot me a pm and I will tell you where the elk are, I have a house done in the area and will also be there for the Nov. hunt. Someone is going to shoot them why not someone with a rifle tag. All you arrow flippers could have got a tag and chased them with you bow, so why cant people hunt them with a rifle.


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Babies huh? How old are we????? First off I am all for helping someone out, but how much help do you need with a weapon you can shoot a long ways???? And I am still for helping out a fellow hunter, just not when 50% of the elk population will be executed. I will not be a part of that. If you would have read all the posts you would have learned that. Or maybe you knew and just don't give a rats arse, either way, it spells disasster.


----------



## TAY (Feb 13, 2008)

It is a disaster I agree, but the wonderful DWR doesn't seem to care. You are more then willing to help someone out as long as it is with a bow, but pick up a rifle and your lips are sealed. Hunting is hunting regardless of weapon choice. The elk will be slaughtered on FL one way or another that is very apparent. It kills the powers that be anytime there is the start to a herd on that unit. I do give a rats arse more then most do, it is the only elk herd I have ever hunted and will continue to be the only herd I hunt. Maybe you should have read the whole thread and seen that I have a house done there so why would I want this. But I also know NOTHING I have to say will change the 2009 killing! Look on the bright side if we kill off all the cows we will have our first I-400 unit because all that will be left is 3 year old bulls. You should celebrate and start giving out maps.


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

The only thing I am saying is I will do my part in protesting this crap the DNR has issued and will not aid, assist or be a part of the slaughter. Like Fishlakeelkhunter said he put in for 10 tags and will not hunt the unit. He only drew 1 but 1 saved elk is better than nothing. I do not have a house down there but a family friend cabin in Sleepy Hollow, same with Fishlake elk hunter. It seems as if we are all aware of the circumstances down there. 1 good snow storm and the elk herd will be gone......again. I am blaming it on the ranchers (cattle) not sheep (Andersons). All the same, post where a majority of the elk are the time of year the hunt takes place on a public forum and don't be suprised when they are gone, that is all I am saying. If it is going to happen anyway (snow) then so be it, but if the hunt turns out to be a fair chase hunt, then I may "help out a rifle hunter", until then.... :mrgreen:


----------



## mjl1978 (Aug 31, 2009)

Maybe before everybody judges what the DWR is doing on this unit, perhaps you should get in contact with them and actually listen to the people who have done the research. Obviously there is a reason there have been so many tags issued. I think everybody needs to take a step back and realize that the DWR isn't a bunch of bumbling ******** that are just letting their buddies go down and "slaughter" an entire population of elk. You are always entitled to your own opinion, but just remember that it is your opinion and it doesnt mean that you are right. All this hunt is going to do is ensure a population of trophy class bulls.


----------



## Derek4747 (Jun 23, 2008)

mjl1978 said:


> Maybe before everybody judges what the DWR is doing on this unit, perhaps you should get in contact with them and actually listen to the people who have done the research. Obviously there is a reason there have been so many tags issued. I think everybody needs to take a step back and realize that the DWR isn't a bunch of bumbling ******** that are just letting their buddies go down and "slaughter" an entire population of elk. You are always entitled to your own opinion, but just remember that it is your opinion and it doesnt mean that you are right. All this hunt is going to do is ensure a population of trophy class bulls.


Welcome to the board. This quote never fit better
*Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein*


----------



## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

mjl1978 said:


> Maybe before everybody judges what the DWR is doing on this unit, perhaps you should get in contact with them and actually listen to the people who have done the research. Obviously there is a reason there have been so many tags issued. I think everybody needs to take a step back and realize that the DWR isn't a bunch of bumbling ******** that are just letting their buddies go down and "slaughter" an entire population of elk. You are always entitled to your own opinion, but just remember that it is your opinion and it doesnt mean that you are right. All this hunt is going to do is ensure a population of trophy class bulls.


?? :shock: You must know someone with the DWR then huh? I would like to hear that reason!!!! We have been asking for the reason...and they will not give one!

All this hunt will do is decimate a herd that has taken 7 years to regain the population that it had before the last "slaughter" they did on this unit.

I was there...I saw it with my own eyes and I have seen how long it has taken to get that "population of trophy class bulls" that you say they are tying to do!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

FishlakeElkHunter said:


> mjl1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe before everybody judges what the DWR is doing on this unit, perhaps you should get in contact with them and actually listen to the people who have done the research. Obviously there is a reason there have been so many tags issued. I think everybody needs to take a step back and realize that the DWR isn't a bunch of bumbling ******** that are just letting their buddies go down and "slaughter" an entire population of elk. You are always entitled to your own opinion, but just remember that it is your opinion and it doesnt mean that you are right. All this hunt is going to do is ensure a population of trophy class bulls.


+1

What a bunch of nonsense...I have a cow tag for fish lake too, and I will fill my tag and not feel a bit remorseful.


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

mjl1978 said:


> Maybe before everybody judges what the DWR is doing on this unit, perhaps you should get in contact with them and actually listen to the people who have done the research. Obviously there is a reason there have been so many tags issued. I think everybody needs to take a step back and realize that the DWR isn't a bunch of bumbling ******** that are just letting their buddies go down and "slaughter" an entire population of elk. You are always entitled to your own opinion, but just remember that it is your opinion and it doesnt mean that you are right. All this hunt is going to do is ensure a population of trophy class bulls.


Typical first and last post. Trophy class bulls huh mmmmmmmmmmmmm, ok there are 4200 total elk on the fishlake unit right now. If the herd is 35/100 this makes 1470 bulls and 2730 cows. They will shoot 1800 cows at least if not more. This leaves 930 cows to pump out 400 bulls left and right. The LE tag may be good the first year but after that shut her down..........again. Please enlighten us on how this will help any elk or elk hunter????? I personally never said DNR, I personally said cattlemen. You know the ones on the RAC commitee...Nice try. :roll:


----------



## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Just spent 14 days archery hunting deer down in that country. I can say for sure the deer population gets any thinner the DWR should consider closing both sides of Highway SR 72, in the last 10 years just flat sucks,!As for the elk, we seen 1 5x5 1 6x6 1 cow and 1 calf, Water situation is poor,also don't plan on taken the old 4 wheeler to far off the main roads. the blm as gone down there and burmed off all the old trails, east side of the highway and the west side, and must say its about **** time!Have hunted deer down that way for 30 years, POOR! POOR! animals don't have a chance to grow up. Hey! they always blame it on winter kill. Ask the people in Wayne county how much winter, along with water they have had in say 10 years!If you want to get really confused,ask the DWR where all the bucks and bulls along with cows and calfs have gone!


----------



## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

The numbers the DWR puts out in that region are flat wrong. They said the Boulders had 500 elk according to the rac meeting. As a result they made the choice to change the law stating you could only shoot spikes during the Archery hunt. Yet when the Antlerless Proc. came out there was 288 cow tags issued on the boulders. Anybody who spends time on the boulders knows the population is well over the numbers put out. Hence the DWR increased the number of cow tags when they got a more reasonable number. I agree with taking more elk off of the Boulders because the DWR were getting wrong numbers!

I would dare say the same bioligist for the Boulders is also counting elk on the Fishlake unit and realized they had made the same mistake. That is just an assumption so take it or leave it. But I would say the actual real count is higher if they were willing to take that many elk off of Fishlake. 

With that being said the same bioligist has counted 500 elk on the Boulders for the last 3 years. Which is total BS. So in conclusion I dont trust the DWR either as far as numbers go!

In most cases $$$$$$$$$$ is all they care about.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> ok there are 4200 total elk on the fishlake unit right now. If the herd is 35/100 this makes 1470 bulls and 2730 cows. They will shoot 1800 cows at least if not more. This leaves 930 cows to pump out 400 bulls left and right. The LE tag may be good the first year but after that shut her down..........again. Please enlighten us on how this will help any elk or elk hunter????? I personally never said DNR, I personally said cattlemen. You know the ones on the RAC commitee...Nice try. :roll:


Lots of misinformation here...let's get the facts straight. The Fish Lake, Boulder, and Monroe units were all flown this past winter and the estimates were as follows: Fish Lake: 5700 elk, Boulder: 1525, and Monroe: 1058. The actual number of counted cows for the Fish Lake unit was 4,100...

...if I am correct, the Fish Lake unit has been given 1,600 cow permits. Judging from past success rates--last year cow hunters harvested at a 58% clip--928 cows will be harvested. Remember the population objective for Fish Lake is 4800 elk...

As for the Boulder unit, the relatively high number of cow tags on this unit is in part due to the habitat/depradation problems in certain areas and the relatively low success rate--38%--cow hunters have seen in the past.

Personally, I think the RAC decisions and the DWR recommendations are good!


----------



## TAY (Feb 13, 2008)

Clean Pass Through,
I think you are right with your assumption with the biologist being wrong on there counts, the problem is there counts aren't higher they are lower! The herd has never recovered to 5700 head like they say. This herd has yet to recover from the last slaughter. Hogan hit the nail on the head with the cattleman comment. I have been on here saying I will be down there shooting my elk and I still plan on it. I would rather shoot one bullet and kill one elk, then someone else having the tag I have drawn down there flock shooting the winter herds and killing who knows how many elk!!! This is my way of saving a few elk, the other would be to draw a tag and not hunt like FLEH is. That is a huge problem with these tags not to mention the amount of party hunting that comes with hunting cow elk in the snow! This will destroy this herd again so I will get one more elk of of my backyard before they are gone again! This is such a great elk herd when the DWR forgets about it but as soon as they need to draw some more money out of the bank they issue far to many tags and slaughter it again! Hopefully I can draw my tag this coming year and be done with this state and the joke they call a DWR!


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

TAY said:


> I think you are right with your assumption with the biologist being wrong on there counts, the problem is there counts aren't higher they are lower! The herd has never recovered to 5700 head like they say.


That's funny...were you in the helicopter when they did the count? :roll:


----------



## TAY (Feb 13, 2008)

W2U,
I wish I could have but my schedule was a little busy at the time. Where you flying with them? Do you still have a copy of your tally sheet we could all see? What are you planning on gaining by talking down to me? I am wondering what makes you such a expert? Are you by chance the wonderful biologist for the area? Can you explain to me why we are hunting elk in the deep snow and how that will only be a 58% kill rate? Have you spent much time down on Fishlake during December? If I remember right you are from the Monroe area, if that is the case you of all people should know that the November and December hunt are going to be a slaughter. So how is that helping the herd again?


----------



## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

Tay.....don't try to argue with him. He knows it all and everything the DWR says is gospel to him.....so just let him think what he wants!


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

FishlakeElkHunter said:


> Tay.....don't try to argue with him.


Yup...pretty hard to argue when you don't have any facts or numbers to back up your weak opinions...


----------



## TAY (Feb 13, 2008)

FishlakeElkHunter said:


> Tay.....don't try to argue with him. He knows it all and everything the DWR says is gospel to him.....so just let him think what he wants!


I have started to notice that, thanks for the advise. How have the hunts been on the mountain so far anyway, anything with size hit the dirt so far?


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> FishlakeElkHunter said:
> 
> 
> > Tay.....don't try to argue with him.
> ...


Yes were you in the helicopter? No none of us were. Facts and #'s are ALL just weak estimates, you know as well as I do they cannot do so. The information they give is ballpark at best. What makes one's opinion weak? Because it is different than yours and the DNR's? Most of these guys in this discussion spend more time on the Fishlake unit that any of the "biologist" or yourself, but their opinions are weak. Really not like you to belittle anyone Stew but you may be off on this one. There are quite a few elk on the unit right now, not as many as before the slaughter but still quite a few. Still way too many cow tags, the right conditions and the Fishlake unit could be right back to square one. It took 7 years to recover and the first year back they set maximum numbers, bad idea IMO. Again just an opinion, like assholes everyone has one and is a little different.


----------



## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Hogan. I agree with you. I can't beleive they (the DWR) keeps some of these areas open. I use to chase big bucks all over Tidwell Mountain. and the elk were every where. I'am telling ya its a complete bust. This unit needs help. and I don't give a rats a-ss whos flying the helicopter. I'am sick an tired of the DWR herd counts. I'am not a smart man but I know what deer and elk is..


----------



## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

W2U 

I'm glad you found what the numbers were last year when they flew I was curious about the numbers they came up with. 

Like I said I knew they came up with higher numbers from the previous years aparently due to the fact they actually issued cow tags. 

I agree the sucess rate is around 36% in the Salt Gulch area, those Elk were because of deperdation, not on the mountain, they havent had cow tags on the mountain for 3 years so you miss represented the actual hunter sucess % due to there not being a hunt to get data from!

This is on the Boulders, which I know very well. As far as FishLake/ Thousand lakes I was just making the corilation, saying the DWR says in that area is not gospel and they do make mistakes as far as numbers wether it is + or -. 


The more I get involved with the DWR I have learned there is good officers, good bioligists and then there is yes men who say what ever the supervisors want to hear or dont get a accurate count due to being lazy or not wanting to listen. It is very interesting that I know two retired officers with a total time of 75 years with the DWR that cant stand the dept. because they say they dont work for the sportsman anymore and the honesty within the administration /dept. is gone.


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

HOGAN said:


> The information they give is ballpark at best. What makes one's opinion weak?


Ballpark at best? Are you joking? They counted--not estimated--they actually counted 4,500 animals. Based on a 80% sightability index they estimated the herd at 5,700. You know as well as I do that they do not see every animal...they account for those unseen animals in their models. However, they counted 4,100 cows. Until you go out and actually start counting animals...like the professionals do. Your opinions are unfounded. My opinions are based upon the best available scientific evidence.

1600 tags at the best available estimate of 58% harvest will not "slaughter" the cow elk on Fish Lake! The sky ain't falling and all this BS about it being the end of the elk on Fish Lake is nonsense!

Also, FWIW, state law MANDATES the DWR to issue cow tags to reduce the herd numbers when the herd exceeds the population objective. This unit is doing that now!


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I have to agree with w2u on the mandate. The elk herd can't be over objective. My problem is with how the DWR can be so far off in their estimates only to have the fly overs 'discover' more animals than they thought they had. Both the Boulder and Monroe were supposedly way under population objectives last fall at the RAC's/WB, now we find out that is not the case. It causes me to not believe much of any numbers posted by the DWR for any species on any unit unless it was flown this year. :?


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

All this debate about management. Isnt it all about Habitat ,Habitat ,Habitat.
Oh wait thats deer. /**|**\


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Iron Bear said:


> All this debate about management. Isnt it all about Habitat ,Habitat ,Habitat.
> Oh wait thats deer. /**|**\


Deer habitat and elk habitat is like apples and oranges. :roll: Elk live longer, can eat a wider variety of food, can access more feed during the winter, have higher survival rates of young, a female will give birth to more young during her life, are less susceptible to disease/drought, than deer. That is why deer populations are struggling throughout the west, not just in Utah.


----------



## HOGAN (Sep 8, 2007)

Like talkin to my wife. :roll:


----------



## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

+1 for me Pro. Hunter management has nothing to do with the deer herd.


----------



## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

I know the biologist and game wardens, USFS rangers, all of them, retired and current and I have heard how thirty five Elk turn into a hundred and thirty five. I remember the slaughter eight years ago. I remember how after the DWR messed up, they tried to hide behind the excuse of winter kill. That might have worked if we had snow that year! That's the same year lake powell was 90ft below average, they closed Deer Creeks boat launch. Having a house down here and living, being on these mountains a few times a month year round, you have a better perspective on what's going on versus a guy that just has a house. I've hunted and played here for 20yrs, my family has lived and hunted here since???? Along time! I've always done my best to help hunters down here, but I'm with Hogan on this, I won't help slaughter the herd. I hope everyone misses, has fogged up scopes, that the Elk all stay on Johnson's or Scott's property. I know that won't happen, but I have a dream!


----------



## TAY (Feb 13, 2008)

Greenhead 2 said:


> I hope everyone misses, has fogged up scopes, that the Elk all stay on Johnson's or Scott's property. I know that won't happen, but I have a dream!


I wish that was the case also, but look at the length of the seasons for these tags and the dates of the tags. The elk don't have a chance again same as last time. Nothing was learned from the last mistake. If they would have issued tags sometime other than in deep snow it really wouldn't have been as big of a issue. Hunting elk in the end of November and December on Fishlake really isn't much of a hunt at all it is more like a shooting gallery.


----------



## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree its a easy hunt, also the reason I'm so against it. I just hope after the shooting starts they run right for private ground, I'd open the gate and toss bags of sweet feed in for them if I thought it would get them there.


----------



## AMcCabe (Sep 18, 2009)

I've hunted the Fishlake/Thousand Lake area approx. 4 or 5 years ago, and had a great time. We saw plenty of elk and a few deer. I have drawn an early cow tag and am pretty excited. Whats the problem with the elk numbers/hunts this year that I've been reading about?


----------

