# Sheds



## utahhunter678 (Nov 3, 2012)

I was on the front today. Glasses for about 1.5 hrs. I didn't see one deer. I did find about 30 cow elk but no bulls. 

Should I drop in elevation to find the bucks? 

Should I go higher to find the bulls?

I was just amazed that I didn't see 1 deer all morning. What are your thoughts?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Glassing for 1.5 hours? You should be hiking.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Maybe all the deer have been poisoned and died.


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## utahhunter678 (Nov 3, 2012)

Nambaster. I agree about the hiking. I just wanted to locate the animals so that I am hiking in areas that would most likely have something. Didn't want to just take on the mountain if there are no animals to be found. I think I will glass lower and if I find the animals then I will focus my hiking around that area.


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## utahhunter678 (Nov 3, 2012)

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## utahhunter678 (Nov 3, 2012)

The pic of the hill has a coyote on it if you zoom in.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Looks like you found some of the missing Wasatch cows.


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## bamacpl (Jun 1, 2010)

I went out today & while I was shed hunting I found about 15 dead deer!!! All lil fawns....couldn't believe how many!!!! I guess that 40% mortality rate was accurate


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

bamacpl said:


> I went out today & while I was shed hunting I found about 15 dead deer!!! All lil fawns....couldn't believe how many!!!! I guess that 40% mortality rate was accurate


That's not good. Are there even many deer in the hills just above provo up through salt lake?


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## utahhunter678 (Nov 3, 2012)

Ridge top. Did I miss something about the missing cows?

Bama. That is crazy about the deer. Why do u think the dawns died? It has been such a lax winter. Unless the recent storm caught them by surprise?


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

utahhunter678 said:


> Ridge top. Did I miss something about the missing cows?
> 
> Bama. That is crazy about the deer. Why do u think the dawns died? It has been such a lax winter. Unless the recent storm caught them by surprise?


Apparently you missed the 50 million threads below this one with Wasatch in the title


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

bamacpl said:


> I went out today & while I was shed hunting I found about 15 dead deer!!! All lil fawns....couldn't believe how many!!!! I guess that 40% mortality rate was accurate


40% would be for an average winter over the last 20 years. Anything approaching 40% on a year like this would be a very bad sign.

In most places it should be half that this year, but I've seen some mixed signs depending on where we are talking about.

Most "winter" mortality does not actually occur until early spring, March, April, and into May depending on conditions.

You don't really know the full scope of winter mortality, until June.


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## utahhunter678 (Nov 3, 2012)

I see. I did read that thread. Scarry crap the Wasatch. There are some huge bulls, but they are so rare. Next year I will not put in for LE Wasatch.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

The Wasatch is a great tag to have in your pocket don't let them fool you. All the complaints will just increase your odds. I find that the best way to find success shed hunting is to just go out and do it. If you aren't catching any fish cast a bigger net. The harder you have to work for sheds the less likely you are to sell them to an antler buyer and the more meaning they have sitting on your mantle. If you are coming across elk and not seeing deer try lower elevations. I tend to find antlers even when I don't see game. If you based your hikes off of how many animals you are seeing you might be one of the guys who pushes a herd cause a 2 point is still packing. Just enjoy yourself and if you notice an antler on the ground it is a bonus.


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## bamacpl (Jun 1, 2010)

Bama. That is crazy about the deer. Why do u think the dawns died? It has been such a lax winter. Unless the recent storm caught them by surprise?[/QUOTE said:


> I don't know what was going on!? I was blown away by the amount of dead deer!!! They were all young for sure!!


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

On an average year it's closer to 50% of new born fawns never survive to see their first birthday. So a 40% fawn mortality rate for the current year (if that is what it is) is still above average.

I know some freak out when they see a few dead deer on the winter range, but in reality it is just part of nature.....you know, survival of the fittest type of thing. Its sometimes not easy to watch, but it is mother nature's way of making sure only the strongest live to pass on their genes. As heartless and cruel as it may be, in the long run, the deer herd is stronger because of it.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Kevin D said:


> On an average year it's closer to 50% of new born fawns never survive to see their first birthday. So a 40% fawn mortality rate for the current year (if that is what it is) is still above average.
> 
> I know some freak out when they see a few dead deer on the winter range, but in reality it is just part of nature.....you know, survival of the fittest type of thing. Its sometimes not easy to watch, but it is mother nature's way of making sure only the strongest live to pass on their genes. As heartless and cruel as it may be, in the long run, the deer herd is stronger because of it.


 We should not be seeing yearlings from last year die on the winter range yet, let alone "fawns".

Winter mortality is highest for yearlings and bucks, during March, April, and May. An average of 40% for a normal winter.

Neonate mortality does not begin until after they are born in lay May, Early June. When you account for weather, this mortality is a carry over of doe winter mortality, which tends to be light in March, April, May, but expresses later in the mortality of the fawns they were carrying in May, June, July.

This is all dependent on health from the previous fall, heading into winter. Winter severity will dictate to a large degree, how that health is maintained.

So, on a year like this, those mortality numbers should be 1/2 to 2/3s of "normal". Normal being a subjective average over a long period of declines and suppressed numbers in this case.

Mortality should be minimal in a Winter-Spring like this. If its not, its not natural, or normal.


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## Kevin D (Sep 15, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> We should not be seeing yearlings from last year die on the winter range yet, let alone "fawns".
> 
> Winter mortality is highest for yearlings and bucks, during March, April, and May. An average of 40% for a normal winter.
> 
> ...


Just so I know we are talking about the same thing, 0 up to 1 year old are considered fawns, and 1 up to 2 year olds are considered yearlings. I'm not sure I got that from your post.

A 40% mortality rate among fawns is still below average so no cause for alarm, but ya, a 40% mortality rate among yearlings would be. However, I don't think we are seeing a 40% mortality rate among yearlings this year, at least I'm not seeing it.

From my own observations, this is still a well below average year for winter kill, but that is not to say I'm not finding dead deer. There are still fresh carcasses littering the winter range just not in the numbers one would expect in an average year and substantially below that of a severe winter.

While March/April may be the highest months of winter mortality, you can start seeing signs of distress much earlier. Again, everything I have observed this winter season leads me to believe the deer herd will emerge just fine.

I guess I just lack an alarmist mentality.....:sad:


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Kevin D said:


> Just so I know we are talking about the same thing, 0 up to 1 year old are considered fawns, and 1 up to 2 year olds are considered yearlings. I'm not sure I got that from your post.
> 
> A 40% mortality rate among fawns is still below average so no cause for alarm, but ya, a 40% mortality rate among yearlings would be. However, I don't think we are seeing a 40% mortality rate among yearlings this year, at least I'm not seeing it.
> 
> ...


 I'm not an alarmist. If you understand the past, and how it unfolded, you then understand the potential and probability of the future.

Yes you will find winter mortality, all winter long, but it is exponentially higher in early spring, after the snow is gone in many cases. For example, to keep the numbers simple, if that 40% mortality is represented by 40 dead dear, then you would see 1 in Jan, 4 in February, 8 in march, 12 in April, and 15 in May. Those 40 deer would typically be bucks and yearlings.

That 40% number is an average that includes 2 decades of declines and suppressed numbers, it is a high number. I miss it every time on the DWR shed quiz, because it does not square with other mortality rates.

I don't know where bama saw the 15 yearlings(last years fawns), but if you come across 15 of them in say a 1 square mile area, during this time of year, on a year like this, there better be a wintering herd of ~700+ deer in the area. Again, with a light winter, there should not be those kinds of concentrations of deer either.

I don't have those details, bama could maybe tell us better.

For the most part, I'm not seeing heavy mortality either, but I'm hearing about a few places that look like they are right now. Ultimately, any winter mortality is just getting under way, and is only a glimpse of what could come. High numbers now, are not good.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Can we talk about shed hunting on this thread?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

:mrgreen: I don't care what you talk about. 

Have at it, lets hear about all the latest stalking techniques, and the best camo for it.


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Lets tie this directly to shed hunting.

So we think of winter mortality as being the hardest when the weather is at its worst. The weather gets nice, and we start heading for the hills, some of us shed hunting. 

Most of us assume that with the better weather, the deer and elk are home free, and everything is getting better from here on out. When in reality, many times, shed hunting corresponds to the hardest time of year for the animals, though it does not look that way at face value. 

I don't shed "hunt", but I take the ethics course every year, and pick up a few sheds when I happen across them. Every year I take the course I just don't think that the severity of this reality is fully conveyed.

If there is a time of year when added pressure can have a detrimental affect on deer, elk, and moose, its right now, all the way up to May.

On a related note, has anybody ever read those old Field and Stream articles about shed hunting in the '50s? How did the old timers do it?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> On a related note, has anybody ever read those old Field and Stream articles about shed hunting in the '50s? How did the old timers do it?


-_O--_O--_O--_O--_O-

GREAT stuff Lonetree. GREAT stuff. You made me smile!


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Lets tie this directly to shed hunting.
> 
> So we think of winter mortality as being the hardest when the weather is at its worst. The weather gets nice, and we start heading for the hills, some of us shed hunting.
> 
> ...


+1 I have agreed with you now for several years that the "shock" of green vegetation is what really takes it's toll on wintering game. Making the transition to dried vegetation under the layers of snow to green lush vegetation is like gorging yourself on Watermelon for months at a time.

If I get out this spring I promise not to push those diarrhea laden ungulates too hard. Usually they move out of the area after shedding.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Lonetree said:


> On a related note, has anybody ever read those old Field and Stream articles about shed hunting in the '50s? How did the old timers do it?


I lived in Meadow Utah in the 50s,and heck you could find them in our corrals where the hay and silo was.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Lonetree said:


> Lets tie this directly to shed hunting.
> 
> So we think of winter mortality as being the hardest when the weather is at its worst. The weather gets nice, and we start heading for the hills, some of us shed hunting.
> 
> ...


*see red*


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I saw a buck shed today while I was picking up my kid from school. I don't have a shed license and I'm not ready to come out of the closet yet. I wonder if it will still be there in June or whenever non shed hunters can pick up sheds? Decent 3 point.-----SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> I saw a buck shed today while I was picking up my kid from school. I don't have a shed license and I'm not ready to come out of the closet yet. I wonder if it will still be there in June or whenever non shed hunters can pick up sheds? Decent 3 point.-----SS


LOL

Hey, I have a couple of bucks in my yard. If they drop I'm gonna go borrow my son-in-law's 4-wheeler thingie and pick them up. 

.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Be careful picking them up early, the game warden might have a secret chip in them and then you'd be labeled unethical by the online peanut gallery.-----SS


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