# DWR surveyer's inappropriate, negative comments



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm fairly angry over this, both me and my wife have been called by the "DWR" each fall for many years to give hunting survey results. I've been called each fall for over 25 years, my wife for at least 15 years now.

Last night again they called her and asked her to do the survey. She complied, giving all the requested information. At the end of the survey, the caller made disparaging, negative and imo completely inappropriate remarks about the size of deer she legally harvested.

NO-ONE should ever disparage another hunter about what animal they choose to legally harvest. If you have higher harvest goals so be it, it accomplishes nothing demean someone else for something they are happy with. 

This is especially true from someone representing the DWR!

Completely inappropriate behavior from the interviewer! Take down the information given by the hunter and move on. In no way shape or form should personal opinion from the interviewer ever be brought up. Its asinine behavior and I'd really love to see this person fired if they could figure out who it was. Really makes me angry :evil: 

One thing hunters continually wish for is more comprehensive harvest reporting, and its something I've liked to make time for as I felt it was helping out in some small way. After last nights unfortunate situation, I'm very much inclined to tell them stick future surveys where the sun don't shine.

GGGGGGGGGGGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

100% in agreement. While I have never had this bad of an experience, I must say that I have been unimpressed with the friendliness level of the operators. Good reason to tell them to pound sand if they are unsatisfactory and hang up. Someone will eventually question them when they collect no data. With all the online capability we now have, I say let them take orders at Taco Bell and utilize online surveys.-------SS


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I agree with you 100%, and hate to hear that. The DWR makes every effort to get objective data from these surveys. This particular guy is deliberately messing that up and therefore sabotaging the purpose he's supposed to be serving. Further, a legal kill fits within the approved management plan for the species, so alternative points of view aren't necessary or welcome.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

What did he say?


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Now that you mention it, I also got a fairly negative reaction from a person who surveyed me this year. Something like a, "Boy, that's not too good" or some such comment. It was a little bit irksome in the moment but I chose to ignore it.


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## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

For sure that's totally uncalled for.

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the DWR had dedicated hunters at least help out with the calls?


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## Kdub (Sep 6, 2010)

Don't they use inmates from Nevada or something to gather that info? Where did I hear that?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear this. It would seem to me that a firmly worded complaint to the DWR brass is in order. Considering the importance of the information that is supposed to be gleaned from the surveys, that kind of nonsense is totally uncalled for and could sway the results.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I got surveyed this year for the Utah ptarmigan hunt. It went fine. I think the woman that surveyed me was the same woman thats in my truck GPS.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

So who have they got doing these surveys? Sounds like they have employed a bunch of the Dedicated Hunter ninnies who need to finish their hours. That would explain a lot...


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> So who have they got doing these surveys? Sounds like they have employed a bunch of the Dedicated Hunter ninnies who need to finish their hours. That would explain a lot...


That sounds about right...I usually get called on Sunday afternoons...by some woman with several children screaming in the background...it kind of drowns out my screaming children.


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## M Gayler (Oct 3, 2010)

Tell them to stick their survey someplace dark! Like its gonna help anything anyway!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I am a little confused by your thread Dallan.

So did the surveyor say something like "well that deer wasnt even worth taking. Why would you shoot it?" Or say something like "That deer was barely even legal. I hope you arent proud of it."?

I ask because I am unclear on what was said that was demeaning?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> So who have they got doing these surveys? Sounds like they have employed a bunch of the Dedicated Hunter ninnies who need to finish their hours. That would explain a lot...


I always thought it was usually students at the UofU doing it for the DWR. I dont know in this case who it was as they called and talked to my wife.



Bax* said:


> I am a little confused by your thread Dallan.
> 
> So did the surveyor say something like "well that deer wasnt even worth taking. Why would you shoot it?" Or say something like "That deer was barely even legal. I hope you arent proud of it."?
> 
> I ask because I am unclear on what was said that was demeaning?


My wife said the guy went through the standard "how many points", "how wide was it" etc etc. As she answered the guy kept making negative comments after each response like "wow thats not very many points" and "geeze, thats not very wide at all" etc etc. I didnt hear the conversation but it certainly bothered her enough to vent to me about it when I got home.

It was a 1.5 year old legal buck deer and she was really happy with it. I've killed deer in that age group from spikes to small 3pts depending on their genetics and feed... so I dont really understand any need from a surveyer to interject negative comments in this case based on antler size.

I'm maybe overly defensive as this is from my wife, someone who enjoys the outdoors as I do and likes to hunt. I like to be supportive of her in this and I dont need some halfwit imbecil making her upset over what was a really enjoyable hunt me, her and our boy shared together. Antlers were the LEAST important thing we cared about.

-DallanC


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I would be upset too if they did that to my wife. I had one leave me a message on Sunday.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Ok that makes sense. 

The main thing is the buck was LEGAL. And your wife was proud of it and happy to have it. Thats all that matters. I have taken a couple guys hunting in the past and their birds were less than purdy, but they were proud of them. Who cares about the rest?

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I think we need to get a rope and tie it around that guys job and suspend it from a tree... 

Sounds like to me he is compensating for something.... o-||


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

DallanC said:


> My wife said the guy went through the standard "how many points", "how wide was it" etc etc. As she answered the guy kept making negative comments after each response like "wow thats not very many points" and "geeze, thats not very wide at all" etc etc. I didnt hear the conversation but it certainly bothered her enough to vent to me about it when I got home.
> 
> It was a 1.5 year old legal buck deer and she was really happy with it. I've killed deer in that age group from spikes to small 3pts depending on their genetics and feed... so I dont really understand any need from a surveyer to interject negative comments in this case based on antler size.
> 
> I'm maybe overly defensive as this is from my wife, someone who enjoys the outdoors as I do and likes to hunt. I like to be supportive of her in this and I dont need some halfwit imbecil making her upset over what was a really enjoyable hunt me, her and our boy shared together. Antlers were the LEAST important thing we cared about.


Dallan, I can see why you and your wife were upset. I apologize on behalf of the DWR and would like to find out more so we can follow up with the surveyor.

Did your wife happen to get his name, and do you have an approximate time for the phone call on Tuesday evening? Also, if you're willing, would you please PM me your wife's name? We might be able to do a sort of reverse lookup by checking her record and seeing who she spoke to. (I don't know for sure if that's possible, but I'm going to follow up with our survey coordinator first thing in the morning.) We'd like to get to the bottom of this and make sure it doesn't happen again. Thanks!


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Amy said:


> DallanC said:
> 
> 
> > My wife said the guy went through the standard "how many points", "how wide was it" etc etc. As she answered the guy kept making negative comments after each response like "wow thats not very many points" and "geeze, thats not very wide at all" etc etc. I didnt hear the conversation but it certainly bothered her enough to vent to me about it when I got home.
> ...


Amy to the rescue!


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

Hello, Devils advocate here.  

I suspect there may be a little oversensitiveness going on here. 

Was the deer not small? Whats wrong with acknowledged it? If the surveyor listened to measurements of antlers all day long maybe a 4" spread and 8" tall did sound small. What if this person is a non hunter who could really care less what size of buck someone shot? Is it possible these comments weren't from a mossback dedicated huntin trophy slamming option 2 supportin POS. I know the girl who called me was a non hunter. 

Anyway you want someone to loose there job over this? Do you believe in Karma? Have you ever lost a job? Is this a reason to go online and rally the troops to have this person fired?

It's a real shame this society needs to have satisfaction whenever offended. We all are subject to this crap. So now the DWR surveyors are going to have to go through sensitivity training. :roll: 

It reminds me of the no dodge ball everyone gets a trophy type crap to me.

But then again I might be all wrong. There's a first time for everything. :mrgreen:


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

did the deer at least have a "big body"?


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Every time I've gotten surveyed it's not even from a Utah area code. In fact a couple times they sounded like they were living out in the boonies or some where down south maybe. 
I've heard some similar comments recently (not by a surveyor). Had an old guy tell me how young people "don't have no pride anymore". All because I would be willing to shoot a 2 point with my bow. Sorry but I don't care that much about size. Especially with my bow. I'm just happy to eat something I killed.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Dallan I like your last sentence *Antlers were the least important thing we cared about* That says alot about you as a father and husband 8)


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Amy said:


> Dallan, I can see why you and your wife were upset. I apologize on behalf of the DWR and would like to find out more so we can follow up with the surveyor.


Info sent.



stablebuck said:


> did the deer at least have a "big body"?


Haha it was plenty big enough. When we first found it it was right on the road at 60 yards, when it finally tipped over it was over across a canyon in a nasty spot. Had to quarter it and bring it out in pieces. I wouldnt have wanted it any bigger as I packed it back to the road.

-DallanC


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Iron Bear said:


> Hello, Devils advocate here.
> 
> I suspect there may be a little oversensitiveness going on here.
> 
> ...


Oversensitiveness? Is that what it's come to? Are we now expected to accept criticism, subtle or otherwise, for our trophy from someone (anyone) who deems it unworthy based on the size of the antlers? And is the message being sent that we need to do better (bigger antlers) next time? And the next?

This trophy/inches mentality is maddening and, unfortunately, is taking over the management of wildlife. Unlike your dodge ball "crap" where there's an obvious score/elimination that tells who the winners and losers are, hunting is a sport that can reward all participants in ways that can't be measured just by inches. Some of my (and your) most memorable/enjoyable hunts ended without any animals being shot. And if inches is the ultimate definition of a trophy then a tank is more of a trophy than a Testarosa and Dolly Parton is more of a trophy than anybody.

Another thing that's maddening, is that most of those who have this mindset, don't even realize they have it and they think it's what everyone else thinks or should think (Thus IB's post, ie; the author's (and his wife's) thinking is wrong.).

In any case, the survey person's remarks were out of line and the situation needs to be corrected, whatever that takes. Hopefully, that's just some counseling.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I think they make rookie mossback guides do the surveys, it's part of their training.


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

Out of Fallon Nevada. Queston, Did you Archery Hunt in 2011 Yes 2012 No Did you harvest a Deer 2011 No. HERe COMES THE DUMBEST QUESTION AN ARCHER needs to hear. How Many Deer did you wound and not find in the year 2011? U Got to be Shi---- me! Last time I answer any of their questions!


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

oldfudd said:


> . HERe COMES THE DUMBEST QUESTION AN ARCHER needs to hear. How Many Deer did you wound and not find in the year 2011? U Got to be Shi---- me! Last time I answer any of their questions!


That question is asked on every harvest report required to be submitted on LE and OIL tags regargless of weapon type. The question is, is it answered truthfully.

I always thought the calls were done by a hired call center but who knows.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

middlefork said:


> oldfudd said:
> 
> 
> > . HERe COMES THE DUMBEST QUESTION AN ARCHER needs to hear. How Many Deer did you wound and not find in the year 2011? U Got to be Shi---- me! Last time I answer any of their questions!
> ...


And, it is a good question...hunters are not always perfect and don't always kill their quarry. In some cases, animals are wounded....and, it would be good to account for those animals.


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## Squigie (Aug 4, 2012)

wyoming2utah said:


> middlefork said:
> 
> 
> > oldfudd said:
> ...


Yep.
Every harvest report/survey I have ever submitted online, or been called for, included that question. It doesn't matter if it's an archery hunt, muzzle loader hunt, or rifle hunt... they ask the question hoping to get a better idea of the immediate impact hunters have on the herds.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

*update*

DWR Survey coordinator pulled the audio of the interview and agreed it was inappropriate. Apologies issued, apologies accepted. I'm going to let this drop in hope it was a 1 time thing. Thanks everyone. Moving on...


-DallanC


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

wyoming2utah said:


> middlefork said:
> 
> 
> > oldfudd said:
> ...


It is a good question, but is highly slanted (negatively) toward archers. Archers are nearly always close enough to the quarry to know whether or not they wounded one per the close distance, the slower speed and larger size of the arrow in flight, the size of the entry wound, the arrow that may stick out as the animal bolts or the broken or pass through arrow with blood on it and by the desire to recover the expensive arrow/broadhead. A rifle or Muzzy hunter doesn't always know per the longer distance, the recoil and/or smoke, the velocity of the bullet, the smaller entry wound and since there is no incentive to recover the bullet, many times they don't bother to check if the animal doesn't react as if it were hit, especially if the distance and/or terrain between them and the animal is difficult to traverse. I've known of every one I've wounded over the 47 years of bowhunting. (Yes, there have been some, including a deer this year. Wrong pin, broken arrow, six hours of looking before it got too dark and I ate the tag!) Would I report it if surveyed? Yes, because we need proper data, not politics to manage the hunts and that's all the more reason to make sure the surveyors don't influence the surveys, now or in the future.

Thanks for the update, Dallan! Also movin'on...


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

Keep movin', movin', movin', 
Though they're disapprovin', 
Keep them doggies movin' Rawhide! 

Movin' on ;-)


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> *update*
> 
> DWR Survey coordinator pulled the audio of the interview and agreed it was inappropriate. Apologies issued, apologies accepted. I'm going to let this drop in hope it was a 1 time thing. Thanks everyone. Moving on...


Excellent! That's all it takes, but I gotta point out 2 observations:

1. Amy rocks! Give the Lady a raise.

2. Can anyone even imagine any other government agency that would respond to an informal citizen complaint like that?


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

Finnegan said:


> 2. Can anyone even imagine any other government agency that would respond to an informal citizen complaint like that?


What makes me sad is that EVERY agency should.


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I see how this could upset you, but let me just say to all of you. You might make comments like go work the drive thru at taco bell or McDonalds. I would bet some $$$ that many of you could not, or can't, do that job. To many its usually a funny remark. BUT, I AM 1 OF THOSE. I WORK FAST FOOD. I AM 35. I ACTUALLY OWN AN ARCTIC CIRCLE. IT IS ALOT TOUGHER JOB THAN MANY OF THINK. 

I guess what I am saying, is let's not judge people and competence. I have 2 college degrees, and 1 yr away from 3. But just try to be a little more kind when making fun of people and jobs..

Like I said, I would bet that 75% or more of you could not handle that kind of job.


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

Roiland I agree 100% I worked in auto parts sales and you would not believe the people that treated you like dirt (you know because your not smart enough to be there mechanic) any type of job can have its challanges and there all different lets not bag on anybody's job because they all do what we need and thats make us money.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

robiland said:


> I see how this could upset you, but let me just say to all of you. You might make comments like go work the drive thru at taco bell or McDonalds. I would bet some $$$ that many of you could not, or can't, do that job. To many its usually a funny remark. BUT, I AM 1 OF THOSE. I WORK FAST FOOD. I AM 35. I ACTUALLY OWN AN ARCTIC CIRCLE. IT IS ALOT TOUGHER JOB THAN MANY OF THINK.
> 
> I guess what I am saying, is let's not judge people and competence. I have 2 college degrees, and 1 yr away from 3. But just try to be a little more kind when making fun of people and jobs..
> 
> Like I said, I would bet that 75% or more of you could not handle that kind of job.


Which one? One of my favorite places to eat. My daughter works at iceberg and she's seeing how mean and demeaning people can be.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

People need to understand one of the cardinal rules of life: NEVER be rude to someone that handles your food. 

Funny thing about fast food to me. I worked it back in the day. And in the 30 years since, the only work that rivals it in how hard you work for how little you get paid is farm work. But in farm work, the sprinkler pipes, bales of hay, and cows don't treat you rudely. Of they guys I worked with at McDonalds in high school - one was a millionaire by 25 because he sold some computer programs to microsoft. Another is an executive VP for the PGA Tour and has an office on Sawgrass. So, yea.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm a little confused how the analogy applies in this situation of someone being paid to work that has to deal with rude customers vs someone being paid that is offending customers for no reason. If I visited say, an "artic circle" somewhere as a customer and was given crap out of the blue by the EMPLOYEE, I'd leave and never go back. I really dont understand how a business owner could justify that.

-DallanC


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I think the analogy is really just a plea to treat people decently. Treat those on the other end of the phone survey well. Treat those at the drive up window, and those we serve. Simple politeness goes a long way. I think that is the main thing. The caller should have been more polite. Being a phone survey person is a tough job because for the most part, no one likes you. But you are supposed to be polite to every single person you talk to, even after the last five have told you to do things that are pretty much anatomically impossible.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

My whole point is you wanted the guy fired over this. :shock: 

The punishment you were calling for hardly fit the crime. If there was a crime at all.


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