# native species restoration



## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

I am not sure where to put this post. It is sort of a report but sort of an editorial as well. So I will put it here and if the mods want to move it, so be it. I just got back from spending a few days camping, ATVing, fishing and exploring some country new to me on the north slope of the Uintas. (See "wheelin" in the grate outdoors section) We camped on the Wyoming side of Gilbert Creek. On the first evening I was there I went for an enjoyable ATV ride with my oldest daughter, son-in-law and 3 year old grandson. As we rode up Gilbert Creek we past a gentleman putting a fly rod together and I could not resist stopping to ask him about the fishing. He explained that about 10 years ago the "fish and game" ( I presume, as Gilbert Creek crosses the state line, it was a cooperative effort between the UDWR and Wyoming Dept. of Game and Fish) "poisoned" the entire length of the stream and restocked it with cutthroats. Again, I presume that these were Colorado River Cutthroats and the action was part of a native species restoration project. He said for the first few years the cutthroats were very tiny but that some were finally getting a little bigger even up to 14 inches. But my new friend was a little critical of the treatment effort because he really enjoyed catching the brook that dominated the fishery before treatment and thought they fought harder than the cutthroats. I didn't fish Gilbert Creek because I did not have a Wyoming license and the Utah portion flows through a lot of private property and in the upper reaches it is just about too small to fish. But when my wife and youngest daughter came up there were more ATVers than ATVs so I volunteered to sneak away and check out some streams in the area. One morning I road over to Smiths Fork west of Marsh lake. I caught a few tiny brook and was surprised to catch a couple of nice rainbows. That afternoon I road over to Hewinta to check out the West Fork of Smiths fork on the other side of Gilbert Creek. I had so much fun I went back the next morning. In parts of two days I caught over 50 fish, every single one a cutthroat. Now, from that experience and my conversation with my Wyoming friend I presume that the West Fork was also the subject of a native Species restoration project but unlike my Wyoming counterpart I found fishing in this tiny, pristine, mountain stream with no one else around even on a Saturday and catching cutthroats just as they might have been when Jim Bridger first explored that area, very, very gratifying. Now, I recognize that there is a time and a place for everything and I love catching brook, tiger trout, rainbows, browns, bass and other introduced species. But I applaud the efforts of wildlife agencies like the UDWR and WDGF for their efforts to restore selected fisheries to their natural state.


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## stevo1 (Sep 13, 2007)

I love the natives, God did not make the albino trout _(O)_ man did. It is fun, and good practise to have native trout.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

I agree completely. Catching fish is fun, no matter what, but it gets really cool when you're catching natives. Good job on the restoration, I say. No, not every creek on the hill needs its native species, but it's good to expand their current range, when it's feasible.

Those were some pretty little fish.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

I spent sunday catching stunted brookies in the uintas and monday catching bonneville cutthroats in a high wasatch lake. I'd have to say the cuttys were much more satisfying. It almost breaks my heart watching a native cutt charge and gulp a dry fly whithout hardly making a ripple. They are both very pretty fish, but the cutts seem to have less of a stunting problem in the high lakes.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

campfire said:


> He explained that about 10 years ago the "fish and game" ( I presume, as Gilbert Creek crosses the state line, it was a cooperative effort between the UDWR and Wyoming Dept. of Game and Fish) "poisoned" the entire length of the stream and restocked it with cutthroats. Again, I presume that these were Colorado River Cutthroats and the action was part of a native species restoration project. He said for the first few years the cutthroats were very tiny but that some were finally getting a little bigger even up to 14 inches. But my new friend was a little critical of the treatment effort because he really enjoyed catching the brook that dominated the fishery before treatment.


It seems that no matter what these agencies do, there will be someone that is displeased by the action. I agree with you 100% that I am more satisfied by catching native cutts than a bunch of stunted brookies. Besides, there are still an enormous number of streams and lakes in the Uintas where brookies predominate and can be pursued.


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## TLB (Jul 13, 2008)

Great report, and I love that same area. We were up at Bridger last week, enjoying some fishin, and hiking. I will need to spend more time hitting those streams next time though that is cool about the cutts up there. While elk hunting a few years ago up there we also saw some kokes that had come up Smiths Fork from stateline.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

Blah, blah, blah... cutts can be pretty, but not as tasty or fiesty as brooks. 

A few years ago, a friend of mine was hired by the fish and game as their horse man. He "guided" them up uintah canyon to the base of King's peak. All along the way, these UDWR retards would shock lakes and streams, pick out the brookies, and throw them on the bank. That was their purpose of the trip. Shame on them. What a waste. It floors me that they did that. Oh well, not that I'll be able to do anything about that. 

All just because of an inferior fish.


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

Oh, and before anyone else jumps into it, I completely expect a huge yelling at by most of you...so be it.


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## stevo1 (Sep 13, 2007)

OK I will yell, the Cutts. are native and belong and thrive in these H2O's. Brookies are fun and mighty tasty, but do not belong in some of these streams..................troll away :mrgreen:


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

tuffluckdriller said:


> All just because of an inferior fish.


Huh???! If they are so inferior, then why are they still the main fish planted by the DWR in most Uinta lakes? In fact, they do too well and frequently stunt. They also can overrun streams when both cutts and brookies co-exist. That is probably what the DWR was doing with your friend. I doubt that anything will change your mind, but IMO a few streams can be changed over into cutt fisheries and still allow brookie enthusiasts plenty of opportunities to get their favorite.

Besides, Stevo said it all; "the Cutts are native and belong and thrive in these H2O's."


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

tuffluckdriller said:


> All just because of an inferior fish.


Inferior? Are you serious? I hate when people try to claim a fish is inferior to another based solely on reproduction. I could argue that brook trout are inferior to cutthroat because brook trout lack the ability to limit their reproduction in many Utah streams and lakes -- and thus create themselves a dangerous population size destined to crash.

On the other side, you have cutthroat that evolved in Utah -- with built in systems to limit their reproduction and thus NEVER create an overpopulation situation.

That's the difference between a native species, and a non-native invasive species. Look around in nature and you find this everywhere -- Australia with non-native rabbits (are rabbits really superior to Rabbit-eared Bandicoots?!)

These non-native species are not better adapted to these environments -- it's actually just the opposite. They are poorly adapted and lack the natural systems to keep a balanced ecosystem running efficiently. Bass, walleye, pike, carp, brook trout -- they are all in the same boat here in Utah. They are certainly not "superior" to any native fish.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

tuffluckdriller said:


> Blah, blah, blah... cutts can be pretty, but not as tasty or fiesty as brooks.
> 
> A few years ago, a friend of mine was hired by the fish and game as their horse man. He "guided" them up uintah canyon to the base of King's peak. All along the way, these UDWR retards would shock lakes and streams, pick out the brookies, and throw them on the bank. That was their purpose of the trip. Shame on them. What a waste. It floors me that they did that. Oh well, not that I'll be able to do anything about that.
> 
> All just because of an inferior fish.


I witnessed the DWR doing the same thing on the south slope, Reader Creek. Shocking the stream and killing the brookies.

The DWR has a very good motive for this. They want to re-introduce the Colorado Cutthroat to keep them off the endagered list. Here is a link to an article from the DWR Book Cliffs project that started in the 1990's http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/07-08/book_cliffs.php.

If you read the article you may ask why it is so important to keep them off the endangered list? If they are added to the list, guess who steps in and takes control of the situation... The Federal Government. Personally Id rather have the UDWR managing wildlife in the Uintas, not some desk jockeys in D.C. who have probably never been to a forest.

Dont get me wrong, I love brookies. But if it keeps the Feds out of the Uintas, I dont mind losing a few.


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## cfarnwide (Sep 10, 2007)

Another article. Reader Creek re-introduction.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/news/04-11/cutthroat.html


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## stimmie78 (Dec 8, 2007)

Many of you aren't native.. you're damaging the ecosystem... should we get rid of you too?


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## tuffluckdriller (May 27, 2009)

cfarnwide, that's a very good point. And if that's what it takes, then kill the brookies. That's the last thing we need is the Nazis, oh, I mean the Fed to come and start regulating that, too--as long as the "endangered" colorado cutts don't close down fishing in the streams they're introduced into.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

campfire said:


> I am not sure where to put this post.........................One morning I road over to Smiths Fork west of Marsh lake. I caught a few tiny brook and was surprised to catch a couple of nice rainbows. That afternoon I road over to Hewinta to check out the West Fork of Smiths fork on the other side of Gilbert Creek. I had so much fun I went back the next morning. In parts of two days I caught over 50 fish, every single one a cutthroat. Now, from that experience and my conversation with my Wyoming friend I presume that the West Fork was also the subject of a native Species restoration project but unlike my Wyoming counterpart I found fishing in this tiny, pristine, mountain stream with no one else around even on a Saturday and catching cutthroats just as they might have been when Jim Bridger first explored that area, very, very gratifying. Now, I recognize that there is a time and a place for everything and I love catching brook, tiger trout, rainbows, browns, bass and other introduced species. But I applaud the efforts of wildlife agencies like the UDWR and WDGF for their efforts to restore selected fisheries to their natural state.


Nice report. I just left the Smith's Fork this afternoon, great place.

I agree with cleaning up the gene pool in certain streams, but I sure love those Brookies.

The Utah DNR was supposed to take the baton and do the same on 5 or so miles of Gilbert Creek as the Wyoming Game and Fish did on their 2 1/2 mile clean-up.

I'm not aware of the Wyoming Game and Fish doing any Colorado River Cutthroat restoration on the West Fork of the Smith's Fork of the Black's Fork. Oddly, the Wyoming Game and Fish did a Colorado Cutthroat restoration project on the Smith's Fork of the Bear River.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

As I mentioned in my original post, I PRESUME there was treatment done to the West Fork of Smiths Fork because I caught over 50 fish and every one of them were cutthroats. I was fishing on the Utah side but not by very far. I fished the main fork of Smiths Fork and caught enough brook and rainbows that I presumed there had been no treatment action done there. I frequently fish the West Fork of Blacks Fork and catch mainly stunted brook and only an occassional cutthroat or whitefish so I presume there has been no restoration effort done there either. These are all presumtions based on what I have been catching. I do not have any first hand knowledge.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

campfire said:


> As I mentioned in my original post, I PRESUME there was treatment done to the West Fork of Smiths Fork because I caught over 50 fish and every one of them were cutthroats. I was fishing on the Utah side but not by very far. I fished the main fork of Smiths Fork and caught enough brook and rainbows that I presumed there had been no treatment action done there. I frequently fish the West Fork of Blacks Fork and catch mainly stunted brook and only an occassional cutthroat or whitefish so I presume there has been no restoration effort done there either. These are all presumtions based on what I have been catching. I do not have any first hand knowledge.


Ya it's strange. Last time I was over there the West Fork of the Blacks Fork had good natives up in the wilderness. Never fished around the trailhead much.

Just a note: Gilbert Creek was one of the first streams I fished on the North Slope. Soon after moving here I worked a Wyoming Game & Fish volunteer project planting willows along the Gilbert Creek stream bank that was messed up from over-grazing. There were few fish of any kind in the creek then around the state line, just silt.

Hope you are having a good time and weathered yesterday's rainstorm.


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

Wyogoob,
You must have done a good job of planting willows. There seems to be plenty of willows about Gilbert Creek now, at least on the Wyoming side where we camped. It still might be a little sparse up around Gilbert Meadows but then everything is sparse there. It sure is a beautiful little stream. The next time I go up there I will have to buy a Wyoming License for a day or two and give it a try. By the way, I thiink all we got in the Salt Lake Valley yesterday was a lot of wind, dust and smoke. It was just an ugly day.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

campfire said:


> Wyogoob,
> You must have done a good job of planting willows. There seems to be plenty of willows about Gilbert Creek now, at least on the Wyoming side where we camped. It still might be a little sparse up around Gilbert Meadows but then everything is sparse there. It sure is a beautiful little stream. The next time I go up there I will have to buy a Wyoming License for a day or two and give it a try. By the way, I thiink all we got in the Salt Lake Valley yesterday was a lot of wind, dust and smoke. It was just an ugly day.


Many volunteers worked for several years on the willow-planting project. I just helped one day. I'd say it was about '84 or '85.

You just missed the bad weather. I walked out of the top of the Henrys Fork, over Flat Top, and down to China Meadows yesterday in the monsoon.


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## DocEsox (May 12, 2008)

Many frequently site the inability of cutthroat to compete with brookies or browns as a sign of unfitness. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Cutthroat evolved as the apex predator in their ecosystems without competing predators.....hence they haven't developed biologic mechanisms to deal with predators. On the other hand stocked rainbows, brookies and browns all developed in multi-predator systems. Thus cutthroat have been extremely susceptible to eradiction by stocking with non-natives. Cutthroats have been diminished to about 3% of their original distribution in the United States.

Brian


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