# Urban Goose Hunt



## lablover

Just some thoughts for all too consider...........
For the past 2 years our group has noticed significantly lower numbers of geese returning to nesting area's in Davis County. That being said the extended hunt area's including the Urban goose hunt is NOT producing geese. Generally late season the geese are returning to where they were born/mating grounds and the hunting had been spectacular! So I started thinking for the past 20 years they have been like clock work, In Davis county the first two weeks of goose hunting are pretty good then the geese leave into the city golf courses, sod farms, lagoon, etc. As soon as mating season comes around they return. WHY do they leave after the first couple weeks you ask??? PRESSURE there is NO where these geese can roost without being shot at! There are NO rest area's that will hold geese from Farmington bay to the Antelope island causeway. There rest area is the city!!!! Again I started thinking what has changed? Where are these geese? There where hundreds of geese???
My conclusion- First Andy Adams pond located in Layton was once private and held literally HUNDREDS of geese, this is now a community fishery and holds 0 geese! The geese would keep this small reservoir open even during the winter months and was a great protected roost.
Second the DWR began "Killing" and I quote "Problem Birds" These problem birds are our LOCAL birds! They have no where else to go! I'm hearing 600 were killed this past year??? What a huge waste!!!
If the DWR did that same thing with deer along the Wasatch front and announced they killed 600 deer there would be a outcry and folks would figure out a better solution than to WASTE our resources!
For those of you who hunt the Davis County area I know there must be a better solution that to WASTE our Geese??? Maybe turn one of these community fisheries into a protected "Rest Area" waterfowl management area? Maybe turn one of the sod farms into a "Rest Area". Doing this the birds would naturally migrate too these area's. Again if it were big game I assure you the DWR would come up with a plan!
Please let me know your thoughts??? Spread the word! Between developing of critical farm land and the DWR our local UTAH geese are in trouble.

LabLover


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## Fowlmouth

A longer split season for the urban area, and let the hunt run through the end of February.
Also by creating more "rest areas" in the city wouldn't that just be contributing to the urban goose problem? The idea is to get rid of some of the urban geese, not create a sanctuary for them.


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## lablover

Fowlmouth
By creating a dedicated rest area you remove the geese from the golf courses etc. "No more problem birds"
Geese are very smart! Build it or dedicate a small reservoir in the city to a waterfowl sanctuary and they will come........... Also, they must STOP killing our geese it's a WASTE.... I would rather see them on a golf course than the dead in a land fill?
We have too ask ourselves is the current system working??? Personally I don't think so....
Don't get me wrong I'm just a old guy throwing out ideas. I don't have all the answers but I would like to see future generations be able to enjoy hunting geese in our local Waterfowl management areas?


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## Longgun

Whoa, _before this thread gains too much traction... _

...o-|| ...

Ok, carry on...


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## Fowlmouth

I think there are plenty of other rest areas in the urban zone now. There is the land south of Farmington Bay, the Legacy highway, housing development created a bunch of rest areas, the refineries are a resting spot, Lagoon, parks and golf courses. If other rest areas were created some the geese would probably use them, but not all of them will. The geese are still going to be in the city. I don't think creating more rest areas in the city would in any way benefit hunters during hunting season. The geese would just go there and hang out out. Geese are smart and go where there is no pressure. Do you believe more geese would return to Farmington Bay during the urban goose hunt because more rest areas were created? I don't, they would go to or stay at those rest areas. There is a rest area at Farmington Bay now, how many times have you witnessed geese using it? I rarely see geese there during hunting season. I'm not trying to argue with you so I hope you don't take it that way. I'm actually happy to see some input from you to try and make things better in our marsh. I have hunted Farmington Bay for 24 years and I have seen a bunch of changes over that time period as well. I believe one of the biggest factors for crappy goose hunting there happened when the GSL disappeared 11 years ago. When the lake level was up there were plenty of rest areas for geese and ducks. The birds stuck around all through the season too.


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## lablover

Fowlmouth I agree with you.
But the areas you are describing other than unit 1 a Farmington bay are not waterfowl rest areas they are what you said golf courses and such... I'm talking about a area or area's that are dedicated to waterfowl. These areas will pull geese from the golf courses etc. 
As far as will it help hunters? Absolutely it will! The birds will always return to where they were born. Also, geese love to mill around looking for food or water? up the population instead of taking from it and hunters will benefit. Again I agree our lake is disappearing! If not from lack of water then lack of land! The Phrag is eating our marshes up! I personally think the DWR will NOT be able to control it? Do any of you feel the DWR/Feds have came up with a plan that is reversing PHRAG? What available water is out there is being hunted by air boaters on the big water and mud motors or foot soldiers inland. Again I don't have all the answers I'm not a biologist? But I can tell you this if we as hunters don't stand up and fight for OUR resources it will continue to decline. Just as Longgun posted the outlook on our water it's not promising! LESS and LESS lake = LESS and LESS birds.
It's kinda of like the "HardWare Ranch" it was created too feed elk correct? Do hunters benefit from it? you bet they do! Without it would cache valley have elk on there golf courses maybe??
Lets all push for something like that for waterfowl??? Where lossing the size of the lake and Phrag is eating the rest if we can't control the Phrag lets do something else? 
Again just throwing out my 2 cents..........
Let here some ideas??? It's a forum


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## highcountryfever

Here is an idea...Maybe we should put up some signs on the golf courses and other areas to let the geese know they are not welcome. Or maybe some neon lights in designated areas to mark a landing strip for them. Ya, that should work.


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## dkhntrdstn

There more rest areas at fb then you know of.They got unite 1, the buffer zone and all of the clubs rest ponds. You put rest areas in the city limits those geese will never leave the city. I have geese using the golf course,the park by my house. they come from decker lake,the refineries. they fly back at dark every night. these geese are smart I agree with fm. if the lake would come back up like the old days. The ducks,geese would hang out a lot longer. We need to be able to hunt geese Intel the end of Feb or let us hunt some of the golf course or parks.


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## horn hunter

lablover said:


> If the DWR did that same thing with deer along the Wasatch front and announced they killed 600 deer there would be a outcry and folks would figure out a better solution than to WASTE our resources!


Did you not hear about the urban deer hunt the DWR authorized this past fall/winter? They killed a pile of deer and didn't think twice about it. What about all the antler less doe tags they use to/still issue to kill problem deer? We are hurting for deer BAD and their solution is to kill them as well... Them they capture deer on one unit and release them on another unit. Why not capture the problem deer and relocate those? But that's another issue I won't get in to....

My point is, the DWR is NOT in it for the animals. Birds or 4 legged critters. Their solution is kill them. Waste the resource. Doesn't matter how the numbers look... Their management plans are less than inpressive to say the least... I agree with the geese needing a rest area, but there is a lot of ground that never gets hunted they can rest on. As well as that big pond to the west. They are pretty safe out there too. Only a few guys know how to kill geese effectively out there so they aren't getting harassed as much as you might think. But I like your ideas


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## shaner

You need to put pressure on the geese in city limits if you want them back in the marsh. A longer season in city limits does absolutely no good if you can't hunt in the city limits.
The only way to do this is to hunt them in the city. 
How, you ask? 
By having hunters that are certified/qualified by the State (Archery Ethics Course/Deseret Land and Livestock shoot test) style of testing come to mind and here is the MOST important part!!!!
These 'Urban Hunters' must be bonded. 
If problems arise, the DWR and landowners will pursue cashing the bond in from said hunter.
For example, if you are given the privilege to hunt Mountain View golf course and are carrying a $5000 bond, I can guarantee you are going to be following the rules. At the end of the season if you have not broken any rules your bond would be cleared.
Other items that should be required are allowable shot sizes/velocities and how many people are allowed to hunt. A low fee lottery system should also be in place with the proceeds being split between the State and the landowner.

If I owned a golf course and had to clean up and rebuild the turf grass before the plaid wearers show up in the spring, I can guarantee I would have a few 3 man pits out in the rough and be charging $100 per gun/per day. And we all know that for a quality goose hunt $100 is a bargain.
That is some sweet off-season income for a chunk of land ( OUR land if it is a public course) that is otherwise sitting idle.


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## lablover

So for the most part folks are going to wait for the lake to come back up?
Or for the DWR to fix the phrag problem?
So are most folks OK with the DWR killing/wasting our geese?
dkhntrdstn do you really think hunting into late February will help the issue with the geese
not returning? Really?LOL Why do you think they use these areas you listed?
The lake probably won't return to the ole days in our life times and Phrag probably will not be under control in our lifetimes either........
So just wait and see is that what your saying?
I'm asking a very simple question folks what do you think? How could we improve our goose hunting in the state approved Urban area's? I gave you my 2 cents lets hear yours?
P.S. 
The signs and lights I just can't see working...... LOL


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## lablover

Finally someone chimes in with a viable idea!
Thanks Shaner.


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## Fowlmouth

Shaner, the majority of the golf courses where the problem urban geese are located are in Salt Lake County. I don't think you can hunt/discharge firearms in the county, so that could be a hang up there. I agree that pressure needs to be put on the city geese to get them moving, but I just don't see any golf courses getting on board with having hunters on their properties, and I don't see the county agreeing to it either.

lablover, 
Do you think every goose in the urban zone is going to flock to the city rest area you are talking about? Heck no! There will always be geese in the city and on every golf course. I believe hunting through February has better chances to eliminate urban geese on WMA's, private and public ground. The areas I hunt are just barely now getting geese coming back, mostly due to thawing. Again, the urban zone needs to be expanded to other counties too. What's your idea on phrag control? The DWR sprays, burns, cuts and grazes these areas. They have limited money and resources to keep the phrag under control. I believe they do what they can with what they have to work with.

Also, if you have a sanctuary or rest area dedicated to waterfowl just remember the birds WON'T show up until it thaws. So, where do you think these birds are going to hang out all winter?


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## utahgolf

why don't we just realize that Utah isn't a "goose state." It is for a lucky few that have property, or those that put in the work and pattern the ones that are out there. It's frustrating seeing them in the city but they ain't dumb when they figure out where they're safe, it is what it is. I got to hunt east bay golf course in provo. That didn't turn out very well!!!! :-o


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## lablover

Fowlmouth I think the DWR's attempt at controlling Phrag is the equivalent of pissing on a forest fire! I honestly think there best idea yet is cattle! But you would need every cow in Utah to be in our marshes to even put a dent in it. And No I don't think every goose in Davis County is going to flock to a designated rest area within city boundaries but I do know Andy Adams pond use to hold HUNDREDS of geese before it turned into a community fishery and folks pushed the geese out? I do know before this we seen more geese in the marshes around Davis County? I do know the geese never caused a problem on Andy Adams. So with some logic here you can clearly see some sort of a roost area for geese benefited the geese and hunters in Davis county correct?
It's really a shame that waterfowlers here in Utah can not unite! I would love to see the Utah Waterfowl Assc. become as noteworthy as the California Assoc.
Maybe we could take some of these ideas and put them too work? But again local waterfowlers would have to unite........
Remember just throwing my 2 cents around on a forum?


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## goosefreak

your not going to pull geese away from the golf course....PERIOD..... its a "rest area" as well as a food source as well as a roost. The entire city from Ogden to Provo is a rest area with plenty of ponds, rivers and Agriculture. creating more of that is not going to push geese back into the marsh, no its going to sweeten the pot even more for the geese..... Like others have said you have to put pressure on them in the city!....PERIOD.. urban goose zone?? what a joke. there is nothing urban about it.. its just a few days longer in the season...we need URBAN!!!! goose zones, like golf courses, jordan river, urban farm land, ect.. and yes the cattle are making a difference on phrag controll, at least where I hunt they are


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## Spry Yellowdog

let us hunters put turf tires on our wheelers and we could volunteer chasing the geese out of the golf courses go out in 10 rig squads. do it long enough they would relocate and we could use it as dedicated hunter hours ......
lol

Spry


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## Wind In His Hair

I live right by the Jordan River. On my side of the river there are large alfalfa and corn fields, and on the opposite side of the river is a golf course. Everyday, I watch the same geese come off the river in the morning and plop down in a field or the golf course. Every evening, the same thing reversed. They never fly more than a couple hundred yards. They have everything they need in an immediate vicinity, and don't migrate or behave the way that geese traditionally do. I can pull right up next to ones feeding right by the side of the road and they don't move. I don't know what the answers are, but I would be willing to volunteer my time to a program geared towards improving the goose hunting experience in Utah.


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## Labs2

Shaner
I think your onto something!!!! That's the only way to combat the local birds is to hunt them on the golf courses, and your idea of how to make it work I think is brilliant.


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## hamernhonkers

lablover said:


> I'm asking a very simple question folks what do you think? How could we improve our goose hunting in the state approved Urban area's? I gave you my 2 cents lets hear yours?


Your asking a very simple question but you already have your own answer and are trying to persuade others to your point of view. Listen they are responding to you;-)

The solution is simple. As all these guys have said the Urban birds already have the 2 things they require, food and safety. Unless you remove those 2 items or add a 3rd item to the equation those birds are never going to leave the parks and golf courses. The 3 piece of the pie I am referring to is once again what the others have already said over and over again, PRESSURE!

If you want the birds to move back into the Marsh (which by the way is not where geese naturally spend their time in the summer and fall feeding and loafing and has not been since before north America was colonized and agriculture practices began) find a way to make all those safe areas no longer safe for the geese:thumb:

Just for starters here is one for ya. How many of you guys run your dogs for training and exercise? Maybe you could get one of these places to let you volunteer (and with DWR permission) to run your dog around harassing the geese. This method is used in a few places around the country and has shown some promise. Just an .02 for ya:grin:


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## rjefre

There are a couple of ideas that may work to improve our sad lot.
1. Dedicated hunter hours for harrassing urban geese.
2. Free grazing and possibly pay for the trucking to graze cattle on public marshes to try and open up some of the marsh that has been lost.
3. Fire in the fall...it truns everything an emerald green all winter long, making it even more succulent grazing for the above mentioned bovine beauties.
R


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## Fowlmouth

Okay, I got a way to keep problem geese on the WMA's. When the DWR does their banding projects in June they could take all the problem geese to the WMA's. How you going to get them to stay there you ask? Easy............They aint going anywhere with a half a wing.;-) If the coyotes, foxes and other predators don't get them before fall let the ground pounding begin. If the DWR is really killing 600 a year then this shouldn't be a big deal.8)

Seriously though, what if a wing was clipped after the molt and then the birds were relocated to the WMA's. They would still be able to fly short distances, but not back to the city. This would allow hunters to harvest them in the fall rather than the birds ending up in a landfill. (if that's really true) It's not a permanent fix because the flight feathers will grow back, but a lot of these birds would be harvested before that happens. Is this considered unethical? I don't know, but if 600 nuisance geese are being killed and dumped I think that is more unethical then hunters having a chance at them. A designated colored band could be placed on these birds to see how many are harvested and how many make it back to the city.


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## Longgun

the thing i have noticed about the banner years of late goose hunting in the davis county area, vs the sucky years has been snow and cold... The better years have always had a foot+ of the white stuff laying around, coupled with iced out city/retention ponds to keep the birds bouncing around. Low/nearly no snow years such as what we are experiencing now have, well sucked... 

I have heard some bad storys about urban hunts from the past, maybe someone else can shed some light on that? 

What if the late hunt was alternated every other year to keep the birds guessing? couple that with some programs that hazed these smart lazy birds into moving around at the same time? I think the stinking things will just bounce from GC to GC to park to park to Jordan river ect constantly keeping one step ahead and it will be all-for-not but... 

... maybe we should all just start driving the ball with a putter to get that all important "worm burner" down a ripping along to knock a few their heads off?


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## shaner

Past urban (golf course) hunts worked as far as pressuring the geese, and produced some stellar hunts. 
But, it never failed that some bozo broke the rules and put a pellet through a window.
Now, as soon as "Urban Hunting" is mentioned, everyone puts their hands over their kids ears and whispers it will never happen again. Like it is some kind of sin.
It does not have to be this way. 
What I believe is missing from making this happen is accountability (and people opening their minds and helping find solutions). That is why I mention the bonding compromise. A large cash bond will guarantee accountability. And if you break the rules it will give Dog The Bounty Hunter some work in Utah.
Some may say that this method will make it so only rich people can "Urban Hunt"? Goose hunting is that way anyway after you add up your truck, decoys, guns, shells, decoys, leased fields,and acrylic calls!
I can't afford to lease a golf course but I don't care, I only care that SOMEONE is hunting inside the city limits and pushing geese back to Utah Lake, Farmington Bay, Ogden Bay , etc where I CAN hunt.
Heck, I think the hunting in Delta and Corinne would be better if we can somehow make this happen.


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## dkhntrdstn

lablover said:


> So for the most part folks are going to wait for the lake to come back up?
> Or for the DWR to fix the phrag problem?
> So are most folks OK with the DWR killing/wasting our geese?
> dkhntrdstn do you really think hunting into late February will help the issue with the geese
> not returning? Really?LOL Why do you think they use these areas you listed?
> The lake probably won't return to the ole days in our life times and Phrag probably will not be under control in our lifetimes either........
> So just wait and see is that what your saying?
> I'm asking a very simple question folks what do you think? How could we improve our goose hunting in the state approved Urban area's? I gave you my 2 cents lets hear yours?
> P.S.
> The signs and lights I just can't see working...... LOL


no we are not saying we are waiting for the lake to come back up. That never going to happen any time soon. Yes I do think it will help a lot. the reason I say that is because you go back out in the marsh in Fed you see geese all over the place.That a better then putting a rest area in the city limits so the geese have another place to hang out all hunting season long.There Just to amny place for the geese to go hang out in the city limits. The only wayu you will not have them hanging out in city limits is hunt them or push them off. but they will all was find some where else to hang out at.Now for the phrag problem I think the DWR rich and Jason at fb are doing the best they can with that crap. they are spraying it every year and have cows out there. They have opened a tons of marsh and have cleared a ton of phrag out by the lake. For ogden they have cleared a bunch out as well by the lake. I think the DWR could a **** load of more if HUNTERS THAT SAY I WNT TO HELP SHOW UP AND HELP. Every time Im out helping it the same people there helping every time.There are meetings and no body shows up to them ether. there was a meeting at bear river on Thursday and there was only ten hunters there.You want to get **** done then you better have the HUNTERS SHOW UP MORE THEN TEN. But like I said for a rest area in city limits is dumb to even think of.


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## Spry Yellowdog

Have dog will run...

Spry


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## shaner

I like the wing clipping idea.
A couple of flocks of clipped geese in a WMA may even help keep a couple flocks of wild geese in the marsh longer than normal (normal being 10 minutes after the first gun goes off on opening day).


Two wing clipped geese in the marsh is better than one dead goose in the dumpster.


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## Crazyhuntinman

Rest ponds in city limits has got to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. Its city limits, its all safety a zone. I dont think feeding them like Layton city is right either. Hell if your throwing free corn out ever morning the birds are going to stay there. As for killing the the repeat offender geese and just wasting them in the land fill that's bullsh#t. Thats like those sorry asses that shoot birds and leave them on the dike as **** food. I have hunted the late season hard the last few years and its quality has dropped off every year. I see no reason to even have a late season if the DNR is just killing the geese for us hunters. There are many factors that could effect why what and so on but who of us is truly the genius to have the right answer?


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## Longgun

shaner said:


> Past urban (golf course) hunts worked as far as pressuring the geese, and produced some stellar hunts.
> But, it never failed that some bozo broke the rules and put a pellet through a window.
> Now, as soon as "Urban Hunting" is mentioned, everyone puts their hands over their kids ears and whispers it will never happen again. Like it is some kind of sin.
> It does not have to be this way.
> What I believe is missing from making this happen is accountability (and people opening their minds and helping find solutions). That is why I mention the bonding compromise. A large cash bond will guarantee accountability. And if you break the rules it will give Dog The Bounty Hunter some work in Utah.
> Some may say that this method will make it so only rich people can "Urban Hunt"? Goose hunting is that way anyway after you add up your truck, decoys, guns, shells, decoys, *leased fields*,and acrylic calls!
> I can't afford to lease a golf course but I don't care, I only care that SOMEONE is hunting inside the city limits and pushing geese back to Utah Lake, Farmington Bay, Ogden Bay , etc where I CAN hunt.
> Heck, I think the hunting in Delta and Corinne would be better if we can somehow make this happen.


Another reason i like spud country... guideless.

Why would any of this make hunting in Delta or Corinne better?


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## Longgun

A very Sage individual among us, has already mentioned the use of dogs. 

Oakridge Country Club employed this tatic a few years ago with great success at keeping the nusance geese away. Does anyone know if this has been a continuing effort, or have the geese (well the majority of them around there anyway) learned to stay away after just a few years of hazing? 

But... on the flipside, Davis Golf Course has never (to my knowing) employed any such tatic, and thus creates the residential rest area with free room and board, along with all the glowing green grass they could ever dream of when the winters are mild. --WHY would they EVER leave? they breed there, nest there, mingle there, absolutely mess all OVER the greens there ... chase little children there... ect

Maybe, there could be a co-op of sorts, comprised of those of us that have dogs and love hunting geese, and the management of such city areas, in that we could team up in an effort to get em off their property (employing the dogs desire to get em') and more into the marshes?


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## lablover

Crazyhuntinman- Any idea is better than NO idea? Just sitting idle is not a solution.
Over the last few posts I've seen some great ideas! If they won't let you hunt the golf courses why not dogs??? I believe it was fowlmouth that mentioned clipping wings?? It sound's ridiculous but why the HELL not?
Here is what I'm getting at- Like you have all said the city is a rest area??? Right???
No they are NOT they get hazed by people. Crazyhuntinman please explain too me how or why Andy Adams turning into a community fishery and kicking hundreds of geese out of there has effected hunting in the Layton, Kaysville, and Syracuse area? Where did you think these birds went??? If Andy Adams was not a rest area "No People allowed" then what would you call it? LOL
They left went too greener grounds south of there! A golf course? or golf courses? Why do you think WMA have rest areas? I'm curious too your answer sir..........
I like the dog idea I like the lets save the birds and clip them idea I like the hunt the golf course idea. These are all real answers! I do think the hunting in city limits will never fly here in Utah? But it's a idea!
Does any one here have ACTUAL numbers of how many nuisance geese were killed last year on paper? Does anybody now who came up with the brilliant solution of a just wasting our birds? Was this really the best solution?
Please post up these answers! Can the UWA help with some of these answers?
I don't have all the answers guys, but you can see how a few duck hunters on a forum just came up with real answers too real issues:mrgreen:
It's not impossible to get UTAH duck hunters too unite and come up with different ideas this small thread just proved that. Let's NOT stand Idle and wonder where did the birds go? Phrag, Development, lack of water are all issues that can be managed if given the proper resources. 
Throw out some more ideas guys! Let's get it too 30 pages and send a copy too the DWR and let them know how REAL Duck hunters here in Utah feel about the way things are going.;-)


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## shaner

Longgun,

The reason I believe hunting in Delta and Corinne will improve IF we allow hunting on the aforementioned golf courses/parks/etc. is because these geese came from both of these areas.
I set myself a goal this year to only hunt the urban goose zone and to only shoot banded geese. I wanted to know where my geese were coming from. I have spent MANY hours in my layout this year and ended up with 11 geese in the bag, 10 of which were banded and one of them was yellow neck collared. The non-marked bird was collateral damage that went down with band #8.
NONE of my geese were shot on the ground and all of them killed with my 20 gauge and #4 steel shot.
8 of my geese were from the shores of the Great Salt Lake, 1 or 2 from Farmington area and the other 6 or so from Salt Creek and Public Shooting Grounds area.
The other 2 birds, including the collar, are urban re-locate birds that were dropped off in the Clear Lake area. 
These birds are here due to lack of hunting pressure in the urban goose zone.
All birds shot near the north end of Utah Lake.

How much more scientific can it be?


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## goosefreak

shaner said:


> Longgun,
> 
> The reason I believe hunting in Delta and Corinne will improve IF we allow hunting on the aforementioned golf courses/parks/etc. is because these geese came from both of these areas.
> I set myself a goal this year to only hunt the urban goose zone and to only shoot banded geese. I wanted to know where my geese were coming from. I have spent MANY hours in my layout this year and ended up with 11 geese in the bag, 10 of which were banded and one of them was yellow neck collared. The non-marked bird was collateral damage that went down with band #8.
> NONE of my geese were shot on the ground and all of them killed with my 20 gauge and #4 steel shot.
> 8 of my geese were from the shores of the Great Salt Lake, 1 or 2 from Farmington area and the other 6 or so from Salt Creek and Public Shooting Grounds area.
> The other 2 birds, including the collar, are urban re-locate birds that were dropped off in the Clear Lake area.
> These birds are here due to lack of hunting pressure in the urban goose zone.
> All birds shot near the north end of Utah Lake.
> 
> How much more scientific can it be?


 North end of utah lake meaning the fields in bluffdale down off the river??? because 11 geese off the north end of utah lake is impressive let alone 10 bands out of it...good on you though!!! my experience around utah lake is not so good, and good being few and far between;-)


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## Longgun

shaner said:


> Longgun,
> 
> The reason I believe hunting in Delta and Corinne will improve IF we allow hunting on the aforementioned golf courses/parks/etc. is because these geese came from both of these areas.
> I set myself a goal this year to only hunt the urban goose zone and to only shoot banded geese. I wanted to know where my geese were coming from. I have spent MANY hours in my layout this year and ended up with 11 geese in the bag, 10 of which were banded and one of them was yellow neck collared. The non-marked bird was collateral damage that went down with band #8.
> NONE of my geese were shot on the ground and all of them killed with my 20 gauge and #4 steel shot.
> 8 of my geese were from the shores of the Great Salt Lake, 1 or 2 from Farmington area and the other 6 or so from Salt Creek and Public Shooting Grounds area.
> The other 2 birds, including the collar, are urban re-locate birds that were dropped off in the Clear Lake area.
> These birds are here due to lack of hunting pressure in the urban goose zone.
> All birds shot near the north end of Utah Lake.
> 
> How much more scientific can it be?


Its not IF we allow... but

Point taken. Congratulations! I agree wholeheartedly in part with your band data observations (actually that supports 22 other band reports ive read also) and the GC hunting suggestion. Although, with the past negative experiences, coupled with the non-informed-bleeding heart- general public, i still maintain it will be next to impossible for a hunt like that to ever happen again.

A word about the wing clipping idea: The vast majority of the banding activity of geese happens when they are flightless, June-ish right? The first hunt (youth) happens in September... Rough numbers, thats 90-ish days. What makes any of you supporting that idea think those birds will last that long being flightless for that length of time? They will become raptor-skunk-raccoon-fox-and stray cat food. The culling/killing idea, as i understood/understand it, is centered around the idea that the birds being killed are repeat offenders (ie: they have been captured before, thus creating evidence they imprint on a particular area/s, in that teaching other geese the same bad habit and are destroyed as a result). Dont get me wrong, Im not knocking the idea at all, just say'n...

My point is, being destroyed at the hands of someone, or crippled then turned loose as play toys for predators of our marshes has no difference at all in final result, they're dead, and so is teh bad practice of using urban areas to live in. My only question to the current destroying practice is, what is being done with them afterwards?? About the clipping, I theorise, that when the general public gets word (and they will) about the clipping, is there will be outrage that "we as a group are rendering these poor birds flightless for nothing other to be shot on the water later". Wait until some news writer that doesnt know their azz for a hole in the ground gets hold of it and makes the predator play observation i mention in the above... Any one of our local news stations would make it one of the top three storys of the nightly news, "_*Beautiful-Pretty-Fluffy Canada Geese*_ being purposly _*Crippled*_ then _*released*_ back into the _*scary-spooky wildlands*_ of the _*swaaaamp*_"! :jaw::scared::Cry: -"film at eleven"-

-The Golf Course hunts would work, if the kill shots were kept to strafing them on the ground with subsonic loads.

-The dog/hazing works... the evidence is there.

- While the hunts are on, I dont think the permanent rest areas would proove fruitfull, that is if they are left as a "no-go human zone". We dont need them resting then, they need to be bumped around and kept guessing as to what areas are safe(er).

In all this, the birds will adapt and find other areas of less pressure in among our city's though and we'll be back to square one again in no time, and just like in years past, after the hunts stop, many of the birds will notice the lack of activity on the WMA's and return a few weeks/days afterwards. -the evil little boogers are smart!-


----------



## shaner

Longgun,

If I offended you somehow I apologize. I don't believe I knocked your style of hunting, please don't knock mine. I apologize I chapped your azz. I don't care if you shoot birds on the ground, it is your choice and not illegal as long as you use a shotgun. If you are using a rifle then I am going to have a problem with you. The last thing we hunters need is division in our ranks concerning legal hunting styles.
If you can't tell, I feel very strong about urban hunting. I feel Utah could be a place that other states look to in the future and say" those Utahn's found a way to make it happen, lets go off of their program". 

Lablover started this post looking for ways to implement methods of pressuring urban geese out of the city zone. Let's all of us keep it positive by chiming in with ideas that we feel could work. Let's not beat up each other for throwing out ideas, that will only stifle the creative thinking process.


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## shaner

Longgun,

Thank you for editing your post.
It sounds like you are a serious goose hunter and I respect that.
Maybe someday I will have the fortune of sharing a hunt with you.

Shane


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## Longgun

No worries sir, only after i had re-read it, did i realise what/how it may have been interpreted... My bad. I wasnt knocking your style at all, just stating how_ i_ kill em is all. The big BB's hit hard, dont tear them up as much as the smaller bb/denser patterns is/was what i was getting at... There's another post/different, thread somewhere that i was making the same point, but at the same time busting paddlers bubble that i probably came off as a dink, but in reality, i just like giving him crapppola all the time...

To me personally, the bands are a cool deal for sure, but only when they come in/on happenstance, not a "marked for death/snipe em" deal. Some keep the bands in a drawer, I myself, keep em on my lanyard as a reminder of hunts gone by, but some would say as flash to my personal style. To that i say to all, "Tread your own path"... with it. 

Good conversation/s... lets keep it going.


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## Fowlmouth

Longgun said:


> A word about the wing clipping idea: The vast majority of the banding activity of geese happens when they are flightless, June-ish right? The first hunt (youth) happens in September... Rough numbers, thats 90-ish days. What makes any of you supporting that idea think those birds will last that long being flightless for that length of time? They will become raptor-skunk-raccoon-fox-and stray cat food. The culling/killing idea, as i understood/understand it, is centered around the idea that the birds being killed are repeat offenders (ie: they have been captured before, thus creating evidence they imprint on a particular area/s, in that teaching other geese the same bad habit and are destroyed as a result). Dont get me wrong, Im not knocking the idea at all, just say'n...
> 
> My point is, being destroyed at the hands of someone, or crippled then turned loose as play toys for predators of our marshes has no difference at all in final result, they're dead, and so is teh bad practice of using urban areas to live in. My only question to the current destroying practice is, what is being done with them afterwards?? About the clipping, I theorise, that when the general public gets word (and they will) about the clipping, is there will be outrage that "we as a group are rendering these poor birds flightless for nothing other to be shot on the water later". Wait until some news writer that doesnt know their azz for a hole in the ground gets hold of it and makes the predator play observation i mention in the above... Any one of our local news stations would make it one of the top three storys of the nightly news, "_*Beautiful-Pretty-Fluffy Canada Geese*_ being purposly _*Crippled*_ then _*released*_ back into the _*scary-spooky wildlands*_ of the _*swaaaamp*_"! :jaw::scared::Cry: -"film at eleve


The clipping could take place any time of the year. The geese could be netted on golf coursed during the hunting season and then relocated. I do see your point about the public throwing a fit about this idea, but on the other hand if they were educated about problem geese being killed, dumped and wasted they may have a better understanding. That is why in an earlier post I asked if it was an unethical idea. Clipping a wing wouldn't render the goose totally flightless, but yes it would increase the chance that predators or hunters would kill the bird. Let me try to make another point here. Okay, The DWR/SFW released 14,000 pen raised pheasants this year for the hunting season. How many of those birds survived? The DWR has fish hatcheries all over the state for the sole purpose of allowing people an opportunity to catch a fish. There are pen raised chukars, quail, pheasants, pigeons, etc. used soley for hunting or dog training. Are these things unethical? Does the public view these practices as unethical? I guess it's how you view it, and if you put one animal above another on a level of importance. The clipping idea may never fly with the feds or the public. It's just an idea that would allow some of these birds to be harvested and not end up in the landfill.


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## Longgun

FM, good points...

Maybe the general public needs to know how we as goose hunters feel about the wasting of our desired resource? maybe... i wonder if it could be a debate topic to gain traction for resurrecting the golf course hunts??


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## Longgun

shaner said:


> Longgun,
> 
> Thank you for editing your post.
> It sounds like you are a serious goose hunter and I respect that.
> Maybe someday I will have the fortune of sharing a hunt with you.
> 
> Shane


well, i wouldnt say that per say, but i do play one on the internet... :mrgreen:

Heck ya man, lets hook up sometime and see if we can introduce a few chinstraps to a dirt-nap!

John


----------



## Longgun

rjefre said:


> 2. Free grazing and possibly pay for the trucking to graze cattle on public marshes to try and open up some of the marsh that has been lost.
> R


Hi R,

What effects has this in terms of lasting more than a season has this practice had? I know its been implimenetd out on FB a lot, but i dont get out there much/if at all anymore to see the effects first hand...


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## shaner

Longgun,
I couldn't agree more about the bb's. My typical goose load is a pack of them at a minimum of 1550 fps so they blow completely through. They leave excellent wound channels and no steel in the bird to bite on.
This 20 gauge thing is part of an experiment that will hopefully come in to play if I can get local law enforcement and golf course officials to expand their way of thinking.
If they dont want help in fixing their bluegrass damage/poop cleanup issues while putting some sweet cash in their pockets at the same time that is their problem but unfortunately our loss.
The 'no hunting Salt Lake County' has been removed from the proclamation. It is up to individual entities to control what happens in their city limits.

That is why I am so posessed with this issue. Ethical hunting of urban geese could very easily be managed but how do we get everyone on board?


----------



## Fowlmouth

shaner said:


> Longgun,
> The 'no hunting Salt Lake County' has been removed from the proclamation. It is up to individual entities to control what happens in their city limits.


Is hunting allowed anywhere in SL county now? The only place I can think of is the south shore of the GSL.

The golf course hunting idea has been kicked around for years and it just doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. I think it's a great idea so don't get me wrong there. I remember people suggesting only using archery equipment with flu flu arrows to take geese from these areas. That didn't get far either. I like the idea of using dogs also. My concern is this, if you put constant pressure on the geese in one area in the city they will just find another safe zone in the city to go to, somewhere they can't be harassed or hunted. So would we really be helping to get the birds out of the city and back to the marshes? Also, I think why the urban goose problem doesn't get a whole lot of attention is because it's only hunters complaining about it. You need property owners and others bitching about it too.


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## shaner

FM, yes there are rifle elk hunts allowed on Wasatch and rifle elk hunts on Kennecott.
Archery equipment is also listed as a firearm I believe?
Dont quote me but I believe you can also bird hunt,coyote hunt, and hare hunt in SL County also.


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## rjefre

Longgun,
The cattle have made some headway by thinning it out a bit in some areas. It only works for one season and they need to be brought back in to continue chomping. Fire would only take out the thatch and it would grow right back if cattle weren't introduced (but you could at least walk through it). Much of the thickest stuff near the far end of the Turpin dike was too think for cattle to make any real dent, but the closer stuff was thinned out pretty good.

All of my life (started hunting in west Layton in 1972) the geese would fly out to the flats below Kaysville and Layton and sit on the salicornia flats and, if it snowed, they would sit in the snow. About 7-8 years ago, they stopped doing that very often. This is about the same time that phrag really took over the davis county marshes and destroyed the flats and filled in the roost ponds. Golf courses and parks supplied the necessary space and food that no longer exists on the flats. Now the geese fly out to the flats just before dark in the early season and don't go there at all when it gets cold and snowy. Without the big salicornia flats and safe roosts, they have no place to go that doesn't get hammered...except the city.
R


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## brettb

Why not have an early September season? Or open the season back up when the spring snow goose hunt starts? I have been on many failures of spring snow goose hunts, but could've easily shot my 3 bird limit of Canada geese.

Some states have Canada goose seasons that are late and close on March 10, why not Utah.

My thoughts

Brett


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## Crndgs8

As was said before. Utah is not a very good state for goose hunting. I'm not saying it sucks all together either, but it's tough. Hunting pressure is the main ingredient as to why it is so though. My opinion. The amount of geese vs. The amount of hunters after.
Opening the season earlier, later, or having more closures won't do anything. The reason you have them on you during the light goose hunt is because they're not being shot at.

I grew up as a teenager hunting in west Corrine. (80's-90's)
Those were the good ole days, before all the "goose clubs" and money came into play.
By the late 90's there were people hunting in a field every square block. The last year we hunted up there was 2001. We hunted the first 5 days of the opener and never fired a shot.
We watched the geese get sky busted all the way from the roost to the fields.
We gave up hunting up there and have moved on to other places.
My point, hunting pressure... Hunting pressure.. Hunting pressure.


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## Fowlmouth

_________



brettb said:


> Why not have an early September season? because it would screw up the duck opener if it was allowed on the WMA's, and it would eliminate opportunity for hunters that don't have private land if the WMA's were closed during the early season hunt. The geese would still head for the city to avoid the hunting pressure. Or open the season back up when the spring snow goose hunt starts? I have been on many failures of spring snow goose hunts, but could've easily shot my 3 bird limit of Canada geese. again, the WMA's along the wasatch front are closed during the spring snow goose season. (Salt Creek and PSG are the exception) This would only benefit those with private land or lots of money to spend on leases.
> Some states have Canada goose seasons that are late and close on March 10, why not Utah. Those states have migrating geese, not local birds that hang out in their fields and golf courses all day.
> My thoughts
> 
> Brett


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## brettb

Fowlmouth,
What you're saying is that having a 10 day September hunt that opens on September 1st and runs through the 10th would screw up the duck opener that is close to 4 weeks after said early season goose hunt? Many ducks migrate into Utah throughout September, likely after an early season would end.
Even if the WMA's are closed, I would imagine that the majority of Private clubs would be open, not to mention the lakes and rivers (walk in access) and private property could be hunted.
The Spring Snow Goose season - Even if The 4 WMA's are closed ( Farmington, Harold, Howard, Ogden) The majority of Snow Goose hunters are already on private land. Allowing hunters to kill Canada geese while hunting snows would be beneficial to hunters, landownners, DWR. There is a fair amount of Public land in Utah that could be hunted for Canada Geese in March. A ten day hunt would push some birds towards the cities, but it would also kill more geese.
Seems to me that the DWR is wanting Geese to be killed, hence the closure and extended season. Why not optimize the hunting when birds and hunters are out and about.

This discussion is about how to kill urban geese. I feel these are more likely to happen than Shaners' idea about Bonded hunter's. Although I feel that is a good option as well.

Just because some areas will be closed shouldn't dictate that this never happen. Allowing hunters to hunt is better than gasing geese during the summer.

One other thought to killing more geese, change the daily limit to 4. The feds give us the opportunity, Utah State gives us 3. Not that a 4 goose limit would affect much, but on those days where the geese don't stop coming, give me and my buddies the chance to shot another. 4 guys limits in Utah = 12 geese. Changing that to 16 dead geese removes 2 breeding pairs. = Each breeding pair having 3 goslings - that means 6 less geese the following year. Multiply that on a larger scale....

Again just my thoughts as an avid goose hunter who chases these **** birds all over the west. 

Brett


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## lablover

Brett-
This thread is asking how can we get the Urban geese back into the wetlands where we can hunt them!
I think several good solutions have been thrown out?
One that I find very intriguing is clipping the wings of problem birds and throwing them in places like Unit 1 a FBWA or other area's? It's better than the landfill?
Here is another idea for you all??? What if the DWR was to focus all resources on ONE WMA at a time rather than being spread thin and trying to do them all a little at a time?
Maybe the DWR could hold off buying new trucks one year and buy a 1000 head of cattle that rotate threw the WMA'S? I'm hearing PHRAG is AWESOME feed for cattle and makes them grow like crazy! Can you imagine if the herd grew too triple that? 3,000 head of PHRAG eating monsters wondering around a WMA all spring and summer? Drain all impoundments so the cattle could graze in all areas(Temporarily of course). Now your cooking with oil
Again it's all pie in the sky unless we can all unite and put some of these ideas in there heads!


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## Fowlmouth

------------


brettb said:


> Fowlmouth,
> What you're saying is that having a 10 day September hunt that opens on September 1st and runs through the 10th would screw up the duck opener that is close to 4 weeks after said early season goose hunt? Many ducks migrate into Utah throughout September, likely after an early season would end. On the WMA's I believe it would screw it up. You also have the youth hunt a couple of weeks after that. Too much pressure IMO.
> Even if the WMA's are closed, I would imagine that the majority of Private clubs would be open, not to mention the lakes and rivers (walk in access) and private property could be hunted.
> The Spring Snow Goose season - Even if The 4 WMA's are closed ( Farmington, Harold, Howard, Ogden) The majority of Snow Goose hunters are already on private land. Allowing hunters to kill Canada geese while hunting snows would be beneficial to hunters, landownners, DWR. There is a fair amount of Public land in Utah that could be hunted for Canada Geese in March. A ten day hunt would push some birds towards the cities, but it would also kill more geese.
> Seems to me that the DWR is wanting Geese to be killed, hence the closure and extended season. Why not optimize the hunting when birds and hunters are out and about. Believe me I would love to be able to hunt Canada geese in February and March, but if the WMA's are closed this limits opportunity for most hunters. The Feds only allow so many days for waterfowl hunting, and by restricting hunting areas to only private land or clubs really wouldn't be fair to everyone.
> 
> This discussion is about how to kill urban geese. I feel these are more likely to happen than Shaners' idea about Bonded hunter's. Although I feel that is a good option as well.
> 
> Just because some areas will be closed shouldn't dictate that this never happen. Allowing hunters to hunt is better than gasing geese during the summer.
> 
> One other thought to killing more geese, change the daily limit to 4. The feds give us the opportunity, Utah State gives us 3. Not that a 4 goose limit would affect much, but on those days where the geese don't stop coming, give me and my buddies the chance to shot another. 4 guys limits in Utah = 12 geese. Changing that to 16 dead geese removes 2 breeding pairs. = Each breeding pair having 3 goslings - that means 6 less geese the following year. Multiply that on a larger scale.... Yes, I agree and I am surprised the daily bag limit hasn't been raised yet. Especially in the urban zone.
> 
> Again just my thoughts as an avid goose hunter who chases these **** birds all over the west.
> 
> Brett


----------



## utahbigbull

They are still here and can be gotten guys. Just my observation / opinion: The weather has slowed the urban zone way down this year. The early snow that got super cold put a frozen crust over their normal fields and kept em from venturing out of the city for lack of easy feed. Get some snow melting off, get weather like we have yesterday an today they get moving. There are 9 less urban geese in weber county today. 

Good luck to everyone that's gonna try to finish the season out this weekend!!


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## brettb

Hey bigbull, I know some guys that would love to join you for the closer......

Brett


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## utahbigbull

I know of a lot of people too lol. Gonna have a field full of lay downs sat!! :shock:


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## Fowlmouth

--------


utahbigbull said:


> They are still here and can be gotten guys. Just not on the WMA's yet. Just my observation / opinion: The weather has slowed the urban zone way down this year. The early snow that got super cold put a frozen crust over their normal fields and kept em from venturing out of the city for lack of easy feed. Get some snow melting off, get weather like we have yesterday an today they get moving. Exactly why hunting until the end of February would be ideal. There are 9 less urban geese in weber county today.
> 
> Good luck to everyone that's gonna try to finish the season out this weekend!!


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## Fish2relax

I agree with utahbigbull on the weather and the availability of feed. I cleaned 3 urban geese today. I also met a member of the forum for the first time today and hunted with him and another member of the forum. Thanks to both of them for a memorable hunt. They're both great guys and we had a hunt I won't soon forget. Hope we can get together again sometime.


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## Longgun

Well at least someone is getting into em. Nice job guys.


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## Stimmy

another idea: how about a second goose split. close the goose hunt at the same time as the duck hunt. then, two weeks later, open it back up for two weeks. Does anybody know the federal guidelines. I think they don't allow hunting of dark geese past a certain date. I think NOW is the time to be hunting them! Something has to change.

E


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## 10Tenner

" I think they don't allow hunting of dark geese past a certain date." Ever thought why that is? 
"The options the Service is proposing range from doing nothing to treating Canada geese involved in these situations like pest species. In between those extremes are options that include managing habitat to make it less attractive to geese; harassment, trapping and relocation of birds; and more direct population stabilization and reduction programs.

It is the options at the far end of the scale that concern Aldrich the most. "If it went to the one extreme, it could have a very negative effect on our local, breeding birds," Aldrich said. "If you allow someone to go out and kill every goose that is believed to be causing a problem, you're eventually going to dramatically impact our local breeding populations."
http://www.westernhunter.com/Pages/Vol02Issue08/gooseproblem.html

10Tenner


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## Longgun

*Copied from 10Tenners post/link.*

*Utah's Goose Problem*

Copyright © 2000 J & D Outdoor Communications. All rights reserved.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is seeking the public's ideas about how to manage increasing numbers of Canada geese that are finding Utah's golf courses, sod farms and other urban and suburban areas inviting places to visit. While many people thrill to see Canada geese in urban and suburban settings, the geese themselves are causing problems.
In parks and other open areas near water, Canada geese are denuding lawns of vegetation and creating conflicts with their droppings and feather litter. Goose droppings in heavy concentrations can overfertilize lawns and can contribute to excessive algae growth in lakes that may result in fish kills and contamination of municipal water supplies.
Geese also have been involved in a growing number of aircraft strikes at airports across the country, resulting in dangerous takeoff and landing conditions and costly repairs.
Canada geese are drawn to these areas because they consist of ideal goose habitat - park-like open areas with short grass adjacent to small bodies of water.
Tom Aldrich, waterfowl coordinator for the Division of Wildlife Resources, says Utah is experiencing increasing problems with Canada geese as development has brought golf courses, sod farms and other enticing areas closer to wetland areas where geese live.
He also said that Canada goose populations are increasing in the western United States and geese have learned that many urban and suburban areas are good places to escape hunting pressure in the fall.
Preventing geese from visiting areas such as golf courses has been challenging. Chemical treatments of golf course lawns, for example, are very expensive, Aldrich said.
Hunting on golf courses also has proven largely ineffective because it takes place close to buildings and many people find the hunting of geese on golf courses unacceptable, Aldrich said.
Noise devices to keep geese off golf courses also have largely failed because they disturb golfers and people living near the golf courses.
Aldrich said there has been some success with training dogs to chase away geese that land on golf courses, but these dogs cost thousands of dollars to buy and train.
The options the Service is proposing range from doing nothing to treating Canada geese involved in these situations like pest species. In between those extremes are options that include managing habitat to make it less attractive to geese; harassment, trapping and relocation of birds; and more direct population stabilization and reduction programs.
It is the options at the far end of the scale that concern Aldrich the most. "If it went to the one extreme, it could have a very negative effect on our local, breeding birds," Aldrich said. "If you allow someone to go out and kill every goose that is believed to be causing a problem, you're eventually going to dramatically impact our local breeding populations."
Aldrich said that type of management option will probably not be supported by states west of the Rocky Mountains, which in part make up what is called the Pacific Flyway.
"I doubt any of the states in this flyway will support an option that doesn't have a very controlled and focused process that dictates when and where you can use various removal methods, and under what circumstances," Aldrich said.
Aldrich said this issue is an important one because Utah's goose populations are not only important to Utah residents, but are appreciated by people in adjacent states where Utah-reared geese often spend the winter.


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## brettb

The article that is posted by 10Tenner and Longgun is from the year 2000. In the last 14 years I feel that the urban goose problem has increased, and I am willing to be that quite a few goose hunters agree with me. 
It's obvious that the DWR is trying some new things to alleviate the geese, but aside from hunting in city limits what other viable options are out there?
Early Season hunts, February hunts, March hunts?

Any other ideas?

Brett


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## Stimmy

I think the only Viable option is mid/end February hunts....not sure what logistics are involved, but if you have ever been in the marsh at this time, you WILL see geese out there.

E


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## utahgolf

everyone should add a green tarp and a flagstick to their spreads!


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## lablover

So if we put 2 and 2 together here from the post Longgun made dated 2000 apparently the extreme has been implemented and Mr. Aldrich was correct! Here is his quote "If it went to the one extreme, it could have a very negative effect on our local, breeding birds," Aldrich said. "If you allow someone to go out and kill every goose that is believed to be causing a problem, you're eventually going to dramatically impact our local breeding populations."
I absolutely believe our local population across the Wasatch front was dramatically impacted from exterminating our geese!
So did it help remove some geese out of the city? You bet it did! Did it help hunters? You tell me....LOL


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## Longgun

10Tenner posted it, i just made it easier to see. 

IMO, the snow levels whithin the city are making a big difference also. Productive late season geese years for us, have always came on years of decent snow in the valleys. A few bright spots, but this year was dismal. I think the geese are still around, but getting better at finding areas they can chill within the city's... a talked to someone the other day that had spotted a small flock in the orchard in fruit heights. :-? 

??? at the time of the goose banding, is there also a census count being done?


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## Longgun

Stimmy said:


> I think the only Viable option is mid/end February hunts....not sure what logistics are involved, but if you have ever been in the marsh at this time, you WILL see geese out there.
> 
> E


sure you will, remove the pressure out there, and viola' GEESE!

Id LOVE to be the only guy set up "_out there"_ at O- say ... about 4:15 this evening!


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## lablover

So I believe the waterfowl RAC meeting is in May who's going??????
Seriously alot of these ideas should be brought up! If thirty guys walk in there
and say "Hey were pissed! Quit killing our birds" maybe a different solution will be
offered? What would the Audubon society think of the DWR destroying these birds?
Just a little ammo if necessary8).... LOL


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## brettb

What is the stance of the UWA on this. If we get them pushing these ideas at the RAC meetings then I think that would help us hunters out. I definitely think we need to be heard and get as many hunters to the RAC's this year. I'll be there

Brett


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## lablover

Does the UMA exist anymore?
There web site has been down forever?
What about DU?
What about Delta?
I would love to hear there stance on our situation......
I will say this if you don't show up at the RAC meeting you shouldn't Bit$%


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## Longgun

Leave the season alone with the split as it is now, and increase the early & late season bag limit on dark geese to five a piece...


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## Fowlmouth

Longgun said:


> Leave the season alone with the split as it is now, and increase the early & late season bag limit on dark geese to five a piece...


You could raise the daily bag limit to 10, it won't make a difference if the geese don't leave the city. I think guys would be shooting a lot of geese that aren't the problem.


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## Longgun

I disagree, some of the band reports tell a little different story. Our resident apples dont fall very far from the tree in many cases. 

Call the migrators that get taken in the process collateral damage... the flyway will manage.


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## shaner

Man, I had a major FAIL on the last day of the urban season.
I really wanted one more band to finish the season but the field I was hunting was getting less and less geese using it.
In my infinite wisdom I decided I needed water to lure in a few extra birds. The field I was hunting was dry pasture but had a trickle of water in a near by ditch.
I cobbled up a marine sump pump the night before the hunt with a long run of old garden hose. Before first flight I packed out all my gear, the pump, lay-out, hose, etc. AND a 12 volt RV battery. Remember I am disabled and only have one hand which made the trek even more enjoyable!
I set up the pump and decoys and waited for it to rain birds.....
I laid there all day and only had 9 birds come in, none of which were banded.
I am extremely grateful for the visit from the 9 birds but I do wish one of them had metal hanging on a leg.
All 9 birds were given a free pass to hopefully breed and raise lots of little ones for next year.
The End.


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## king eider

shaner said:


> Man, I had a major FAIL on the last day of the urban season.
> I really wanted one more band to finish the season but the field I was hunting was getting less and less geese using it.
> In my infinite wisdom I decided I needed water to lure in a few extra birds. The field I was hunting was dry pasture but had a trickle of water in a near by ditch.
> I cobbled up a marine sump pump the night before the hunt with a long run of old garden hose. Before first flight I packed out all my gear, the pump, lay-out, hose, etc. AND a 12 volt RV battery. Remember I am disabled and only have one hand which made the trek even more enjoyable!
> I set up the pump and decoys and waited for it to rain birds.....
> I laid there all day and only had 9 birds come in, none of which were banded.
> I am extremely grateful for the visit from the 9 birds but I do wish one of them had metal hanging on a leg.
> All 9 birds were given a free pass to hopefully breed and raise lots of little ones for next year.
> The End.


I don't understand the fixation to shoot a local banded goose. It just doesn't make sense to me. But nonetheless sounds like you had a rewarding day enjoying Mother Nature.


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## shaner

You or I are not supposed to understand others goals, that is what keeps us all ticking along in this crazy world.

Who said it was a local band?


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## king eider

shaner said:


> Who said it was a local band?


Percentages and Probability does...
The way I perceive your post was that your day was a failure for not shooting a banded bird. Am I right?


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## shaner

You are right, my goal was to finish up the season with a band. I was blessed with an excellent day but failed at my goal.

I shot a banded scaup at Farmington Bay that was banded in Louisiana one season prior to me harvesting it. Probability and percentages dictate I should never have collected that bird.

That is what makes reporting a band so intriguing and exciting, finding out the unknown!


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## Stimmy

Shaner, (or anybody else), have you ever shot a banded goose in Utah that was NOT banded in Utah. Between myself and buddies, we never have...

PS sounds like you had a great season...

E


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## goosegambler

Stimmy said:


> Shaner, (or anybody else), have you ever shot a banded goose in Utah that was NOT banded in Utah. Between myself and buddies, we never have...
> 
> PS sounds like you had a great season...
> 
> E


I have.... 4 of them, 2 from Canada, and another one from Idaho, and one that had a neck collar from Nevada.


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## shaner

Thanks Stimmy and Goosegambler.

I only have one non-Utah goose band, from Lima Lake in Montana.

BUT, you never know where the next one will be from!!!


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## 1BandMan

I have no scientific data to back this up but I would say that 90% or more of the geese that are harvested in Utah are local birds. I have a dozen or so bands from birds outside of Utah from hunting 20+ years. Canada, Montana, Idaho, etc.
For a short time with my son I also targeted bands rather than birds. 
It just didn't seem sporting or right so as soon as it begun, it ended for me. 
Don't get me wrong, bands are part of the hunt and help with remembering the hunt and sometimes who was part of that hunt making it that much more special, but for me, far from a be all to end all. 
The guys that I know that hunt bands are getting the point that they scare me. Kinda like Jeff Foils scary. It's not about the hunt anymore, its about the band. 
As mentioned, to each their own though.


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## Fowlmouth

Who wouldn't love to be hunting geese in Utah right now? Banded or not. We finally have a thaw, mudflats with salicornia are opened back up, plenty of shallow water now and the geese are moving back to these areas. IMO February would be the best month to eliminate some urban geese, whether it be on public WMA's or private ground. Goose hunting sucks big time when everything is frozen solid, especially on WMA's.


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## stuckduck

Fowlmouth said:


> Who wouldn't love to be hunting geese in Utah right now? Banded or not. We finally have a thaw, mudflats with salicornia are opened back up, plenty of shallow water now and the geese are moving back to these areas. IMO February would be the best month to eliminate some urban geese, whether it be on public WMA's or private ground. Goose hunting sucks big time when everything is frozen solid, especially on WMA's.


 Kind of like hunting LE Elk in the middle of the rut with a gun... I'll take it when its a challenge.


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## 10Tenner

I remember the day when Idaho banded, Samaria, Malad, Chesterfield, Dingle, Black Foot are some the areas we shot geese banded from.
Here is my concern with he extend season, and the weather we had north of Weber county a Urban goose zone. How many geese were taken from BoxElder, Cash counties, non nuisance birds? 
Why are the geese in the cities? Were do the geese go after the first week of the hunt on the WMA's, and why? 30+ years ago, no frag, less boats(meaning motorized areas are now easily accessible), urban development of farm ground. 
Until the habit is changed in the WMA's, rest areas, and food provided, the geese will continue to inhabit the cities. And now it is at the point of gassing them, and hunting is wanted at the nesting season. Set up layout blind near a nest. 10Tenner


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## 10Tenner

> Kind of like hunting LE Elk in the middle of the rut with a gun... I'll take it when its a challenge.


+1. 10Tenner


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## Fowlmouth

stuckduck said:


> Kind of like hunting LE Elk in the middle of the rut with a gun... I'll take it when its a challenge.


Yep, but it's a better solution than the DWR killing and wasting them. This is about eliminating urban geese. I'm not saying have the entire state open to goose hunting in February, only the urban zone, and maybe the boundaries would need some adjusting from how they are set now.


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## stuckduck

Fowlmouth said:


> Yep, but it's a better solution than the DWR killing and wasting them. This is about eliminating urban geese. I'm not saying have the entire state open to goose hunting in February, only the urban zone, and maybe the boundaries would need some adjusting from how they are set now.


If the Idea is to help eliminate the city geese problem than how does hunting them in Feb help? If you want them out of the city then why put pressure on them in the marsh pushing them back into the cities when they are in nest/breeding mode? The DNR I think has been making good advancement in the city geese issue. But we will always have birds that prefer the city.. What do they due with the ones that are exterminated? I'm sure they end up somewhere. I cant imagine they get thrown in the dumpster. Does anybody know?

Not to get you upset just playing the devils advocate here.


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## Fowlmouth

stuckduck said:


> If the Idea is to help eliminate the city geese problem than how does hunting them in Feb help? Because the bulk of them don't start moving back to the marsh and fields until it thaws, which is usually in February.If you want them out of the city then why put pressure on them in the marsh pushing them back into the cities when they are in nest/breeding mode? hunting urban area geese has never been tried before in February so we don't know if it will push them back to the city. I'm sure some would head back, and I'm sure some would get shot and never return. The DNR I think has been making good advancement in the city geese issue. Where and How???? By banding them and monitoring there movement from golf course to golf course?  But we will always have birds that prefer the city.. True What do they due with the ones that are exterminated? I'm sure they end up somewhere. I cant imagine they get thrown in the dumpster. Does anybody know? I would like to know too.
> 
> Not to get you upset just playing the devils advocate here.


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## lablover

I'm going to agree with a few here and say a late season February hunt is NOT the answer!
They will go right back to the CITY:!:
How about a early season September hunt? Works for Wyoming why not here? 
As far as what does the DNR do with the "Gassed Geese" Would you eat one that tasted like a tail pipe? Surely they end up at the land fill
But I would love for someone to officially say that's where they go????
DNR ???
Utah Water Fowl Assc. ???
Anybody out there???


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## king eider

Fowlmouth said:


> Yep, but it's a better solution than the DWR killing and wasting them. This is about eliminating urban geese. I'm not saying have the entire state open to goose hunting in February, only the urban zone, and maybe the boundaries would need some adjusting from how they are set now.


having the entire state open to hunting dark geese through Feb. is a pipe dream. I cant remember the number that was told to me on how many yellow tarsal banded geese were recaptured this last summer but the number was surprisingly shocking to me. it was far lower than i expected. Anyhow that is what the word i was told. reliable source, however i would love to see actual numbers.


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## Jeff Bringhurst

stuckduck said:


> What do they due with the ones that are exterminated? I'm sure they end up somewhere. I cant imagine they get thrown in the dumpster. Does anybody know?


I can't give you an official answer but I can tell you want I learned from the urban goose banding from last year.

If a goose was captured in the city that already had a band or collar, the band number was recorded and it was placed in a separate holding pen. These birds were considered repeat offenders and had returned to the city and they were destroyed. When I inquired about what happens to the meat on the birds I was told they need to be destroyed and can not be consumed. This is a federal requirement not state or local. Even the local state biologist were disappointed they were being wasted but there was nothing they could do. I do not know where the birds ended up.

I assisted 2 days and the number of banded/collard birds captured was pretty small. I would say about 15 birds or less the 2 days I was there.


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## 10Tenner

\:"The DNR I think has been making good advancement in the city geese issue. Where and How???? By banding them and monitoring there movement from golf course to golf course?":/
I know urban banded geese that were shot before the Urban late hunt season counties area was established. One out of state approaching 3 years old. Some that was approaching two years old. These transplanted birds never returned. 10Tenner


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