# 2000 pheasants released!



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Hopefuly the hens will nest and produce offspring for this falls hunts...

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-ut ... nties.html


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

I don't know what the success rate is for pen raised pheasants but I know that pen raised chukars have a about a 1% survival rate after 8 months being released in the wild. I hope this pheasant release will be beneficial but I am thinking they just set the dinner plate for a bunch of foxes/skunks/racoons/birds of prey.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Money wasted!

Pen raised pheasants turned loose after six weeks of captivity are absolutely VOID of survival instincts. The older they get behind a fence the dumber they are. These birds will be nothing but hawk and fox sh*t in a month. You'd think these retards would do a little research before spending money on a project like this. Ranks right up there with deer transplanting on the wasted money charts... :?


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

I give them an "A" for trying but this is a big waste of money. If the habitat could support pheasants we would have pheasants naturally but just tossing out a few birds in hopes of helping the populations is just feeding a bunch of predators that don't need to be fed. All this will do is give the raccoons, skunks and foxes more to eat this spring and give them more of an edge and really put the hurt on the actual wild birds we do have. If you want to have more pheasants, work on the habitat, reduce predation and the birds will take care of the rest. There is a reason we don't have pheasants and it is a habitat issue not a lack of birds issue. if we had the habitat the birds would breed to a higher capacity then they are now. the problem is the capacity now is low because of low winter feed and low winter cover and nesting cover, not to mention many hens fall victim to hay choppers in the spring, and high predators like ***** that can scavenge for food in garbage cans if needed so they can adapt to many situations and handle lean times because of urban garbage.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Money wasted!
> 
> Pen raised pheasants turned loose after six weeks of captivity are absolutely VOID of survival instincts. The older they get behind a fence the dumber they are. These birds will be nothing but hawk and fox sh*t in a month. You'd think these retards would do a little research before spending money on a project like this. Ranks right up there with deer transplanting on the wasted money charts... :?


What would the proper methodology of releasing birds be? I have seen pens with quail that feed and water the birds with zero human interaction that are usually located in the area the quail are intended to be released in, would this be the proper technique with pheasants :?:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Bax* said:


> TEX-O-BOB":2kx420yn]Money wasted!
> Pen raised pheasants turned loose after six weeks of captivity are absolutely VOID of survival instincts. The older they get behind a fence the dumber they are. These birds will be nothing but hawk and fox sh*t in a month. You'd think these retards would do a little research before spending money on a project like this. Ranks right up there with deer transplanting on the wasted money charts... :?[/quote]
> What would the proper methodology of releasing birds be? I have seen pens with quail that feed and water the birds with zero human interaction that are usually located in the area the quail are intended to be released in said:
> 
> ...


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

releasing birds of any sort no matter how they are raised is a waste if the habitat isn't there to support them.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Habitat issues addressed, Quote:

DWR Biologist Lynn Zubek was in charge of the release. He says the DWR and SFW have worked hard to improve habitat on the WMAs where the pheasants were released. "It's great to see pheasants released onto these areas," Zubeck says. "We hope they'll survive and reproduce."

Also, there is a study taking place as well. This should determine if its worth while:

Before releasing the birds, DWR biologists tagged each hen with a brightly colored leg band that the biologists can see from a distance. In May, June and July, biologists will see how the birds are doing by recording the number of released hens that have chicks with them.


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

I for one hope it works out. Only time will tell, but if it creates more birds, and opportunities, that would be awesome. Way to go SFW. 8)


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

It would be hard to find a more dedicated WMA manager than Lynn. He has been prepping the habitat on these WMAs for a decade, while the UDWR Habitat Council has invested a lot of money in support. What he has accomplished is pretty impressive.

Will it work? Maybe a little. I hope it does. The first pheasants were released also; some survived to live and produce what we have today. 

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more funding to go into quail relocation. Problem urban quail (yes there are some, crazy as that sounds) should be put in these areas; wild and ready to go.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Packout said:


> It would be hard to find a more dedicated WMA manager than Lynn. He has been prepping the habitat on these WMAs for a decade, while the UDWR Habitat Council has invested a lot of money in support. What he has accomplished is pretty impressive.
> 
> Will it work? Maybe a little. I hope it does. The first pheasants were released also; some survived to live and produce what we have today.
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing a little more funding to go into quail relocation. Problem urban quail (yes there are some, crazy as that sounds) should be put in these areas; wild and ready to go.


If you want to help, the Utah Chukar Foundation along with the DWR have an urban quail trapping program that is going on right now--not too much time left before they mate so be quick about it. Go to their website and call the Chukar foundation president. The organization has been building traps and working hard on this project. The survival rate of these wild quail is quite high and the DWR has approved sites for release with adequate habitat on public land. Its a great program that hopefully can get wild quail populations established.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

As for the quail, there is a covey of ~30 that runs around my neighborhood....give me some birdseed and a large net and whamo! I could nail all of 'em!
But seriously, during the season, that was a massive temptation.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

What do you guys think is the biggest threat to game birds right now? I agree that predators like raccoons and skunk are a big piece of the puzzle but I am beginning to think that cats are potentially a bigger threat as their numbers seem to be ever increasing in the areas I have hunted. Seems like rural areas are in a catch 22 situation where they use cats for pest control, but their populations grow like crazy and then they go after quail, pheasants, huns... And suddenly we have less birds.

As far as habitat, there is a lot of habitat in my mind's eye. But there are always farm houses or humans near by with cats.... So is there an issue with food supply that you guys are seeing or something else that you see as a threat with habitat?


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Habitat is NOT the problem! The trouble with pen raised birds is that they miss out on the needed life skills that they obtain from their mothers living in a WILD environment! These skills are learned from the day they hatch until they are on their own...pen raised and bread hens will only teach the chick how to peck around the feeder, hell, they don't have the needed skills either to survive in the wild. And as far a a study goes, holy crap, there are thousands of studies about releasing pen raised birds into the wild. We don't need to be wasting our dough on another study.
Then I have to laugh when they say the locals in small towns look forward to hunters in the field...yeah right...that's why there is virtually NO private property open to the public for hunting...NO TRESPASSING, KEEP OUT, TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT, Yeah, the friendly people in rural ares just love to see pheasant hunters -_O- -_O- -8/-


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> As for the quail, there is a covey of ~30 that runs around my neighborhood....give me some birdseed and a large net and whamo! I could nail all of 'em!
> But seriously, during the season, that was a massive temptation.


Why don't you call the chukar foundation, get a trap and catch some for transplanting then?


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## north slope (Sep 8, 2007)

I think.... I will just go hunt chukars. If I want to hunt pheasants I will spend the time to drive where they have pheasants....(Dakotas)


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Bax* said:


> What do you guys think is the biggest threat to game birds right now? I agree that predators like raccoons and skunk are a big piece of the puzzle but I am beginning to think that cats are potentially a bigger threat as their numbers seem to be ever increasing in the areas I have hunted. Seems like rural areas are in a catch 22 situation where they use cats for pest control, but their populations grow like crazy and then they go after quail, pheasants, huns... And suddenly we have less birds.


Feral cats do a lot of damage to bird populations. Just shoot them when you are out hunting and you see them. You may even get a trophy banded one with a pink collar and a bell. :shock:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Fowlmouth said:


> Bax* said:
> 
> 
> > What do you guys think is the biggest threat to game birds right now? I agree that predators like raccoons and skunk are a big piece of the puzzle but I am beginning to think that cats are potentially a bigger threat as their numbers seem to be ever increasing in the areas I have hunted. Seems like rural areas are in a catch 22 situation where they use cats for pest control, but their populations grow like crazy and then they go after quail, pheasants, huns... And suddenly we have less birds.
> ...


Man I wish that were the case! I never get a shot off on cats because they are always out of shotgun range :evil:


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

Raptors. I think there is a bigger population of hawks in Utah than there is pheasants. :shock:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Airborne, that is a great idea. After my daughter's born and I am down to just school or work I will give them a call. Do you have a contact # for a Utah county division?


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## GRIFF (Sep 22, 2007)

When they planted wild turkeys here I am pretty sure they did not come from Moroni. How can we expect pen raised pheasants to survive but not pen raised turkeys. I could be wrong, but I don't believe the pheasansts first planted in the U.S. had been pen raised in China(if they were, then probably 1st or 2nd generation pen raised birds). I believe if they want to have success they need to do the same thing they are doing with quail. Trapping wild birds and relocating them.

Even then, I think there would be marginal success in Utah because of lack of habitat. If habitat is good predators have little to no effect on bird population. The good pheasant states have as many if not more predators than we do here, they just have 1000 times more habitat.

Later,
Griff


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## wayner33 (Dec 11, 2007)

Sprig Kennels said:


> I give them an "A" for trying but this is a big waste of money. If the habitat could support pheasants we would have pheasants naturally but just tossing out a few birds in hopes of helping the populations is just feeding a bunch of predators that don't need to be fed. All this will do is give the raccoons, skunks and foxes more to eat this spring and give them more of an edge and really put the hurt on the actual wild birds we do have. If you want to have more pheasants, work on the habitat, reduce predation and the birds will take care of the rest. There is a reason we don't have pheasants and it is a habitat issue not a lack of birds issue. if we had the habitat the birds would breed to a higher capacity then they are now. the problem is the capacity now is low because of low winter feed and low winter cover and nesting cover, not to mention many hens fall victim to hay choppers in the spring, and high predators like ***** that can scavenge for food in garbage cans if needed so they can adapt to many situations and handle lean times because of urban garbage.


I have a farm in the middle of pheasant/predator country and the above quote is right on. I think this is a publicity stunt.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

This won't do much good it was a waste of money. You should have released half or a quarter of the amount of birds and used the rest of the money to get rid of their predators so they actually did a little good. Within 6 months I'll bet 95% are dead.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I hope it's successful as well but don't see it being likely. They should have gone the surrogator route, they would have been better served in my opinion. They have been working a great deal on habitat on the WMA's for this purpose. Atleast a few of the hens will get through, maybe 10-15% which will mean 10-15% more chicks, it will add up to more birds as long as the predators get put into check. If not I would imagine the fox, skunks, raccoons, and feral cats will never be healthier. Wonder what it would take to build a couple surrogators and set them up on some of the WMA's up north and compare notes? Glad someone is atleast trying to do something for the birds. My grandparents had a ranch when we were younger. A local farmer went in cahootz on a bird farm, it only lasted maybe 1 or 2 years but after it started the pheasant hunting was phenomenal still lots of birds there to this day. There was plenty of habitat but the predators always kept the pheasant numbers below their potential until the area was flooded with more birds. Then the bird population was able to sustain its self and carries the wild birds now.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

The area where they released these birds has some pretty **** good habitat. Its 98% private, but there is some good habitat. The WMA's have very good overhead cover to protect from raptors, but the furry four-legged rascals out there are what will get these birds. If they don't get them alive, they will rob the nests blind. 

I love the idea of supplementing, but it really only makes sense to do so just before or during the hunt. I know this idea won't be popular, but what if the DWR were to close some of the WMA's to all access (not just hunting) during the warmer, incubating period and use the money raised to install surrogators in a few places on this land. They could use any other funds to remove predators from the areas, so the surrogators aren't turned into kitchens when the birds are released to fend for themselves. 

I know its a pipe dream to expect anything like what was experienced in the 60's and 70's, but there has to be something that could make things improve.


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

98% private? the posted article said they were released on public land.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

So I've been curious about all this for a while now and this has resparked the curiosity I have come across information and thought I would share. Essentially what I have found out is that pen reared birds, even when raised in a surrogator, have a very low survival rate. However, trapped and rereleased wild birds have a very high survival rate. These rates can be increased by habitat improvement and predator reduction. Other problems are also brought into the equation with pen raised birds such as disease and genetic dillution. Seems we need to find a source of wild birds, maybe make some kind of trade with one of the Dakotas. Pheasants Forever has essentially banned the use of surrogators and banned the release of penreared birds by all of their membership. What I couldn't find is where they would get trapped wild birds? So anyone a PF member? Maybe someone could find out where a group could get trapped wild birds?


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I applaud the effort. This is the first real effort I have seen in forever years. Whether it is in vain or not I love the effort. Nice job guys!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Bret said:


> I applaud the effort. This is the first real effort I have seen in forever years. Whether it is in vain or not I love the effort. Nice job guys!


I completely agree. I have to disagree with the naysayers that this has no chance of success. I have hunted areas in Utah that have large numbers of birds...Why? They supply the wild birds population with large amounts of pen raised birds that become liberated. They live in the wild and raise young. The first birds introduced here came from cages. The difference from one successful area to the next will be predator control.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

You say naysayer, I say reality based observation.


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## kev (Feb 7, 2008)

My neighbors Dachshund was once related to the wolf, but it would be foolish to think that it could survive on it's own in a "wild" situation. Is it possible, sure. But I think all would agree, highly unlikely.
First let me say I have no horse in this race, so my observations and opinions are simply that.
The only thing modern day pheasants and the stock that were originally planted in this country have in common is their genetics. The orginal birds were released with the sole purpose of entertaining the wealthy (sound familiar), and were cared for as status symbols. Meaning that while they were in effect "wild", they were also looked after by game keepers, who trapped and killed predators, maintained an abundance of suitable habitat, as well as ample food and water supplies. As a simply fortunate result, some of the birds eventually migrated into the surrounding landscape and became less reliant on humans.
The difference between those birds and the ones released in modern days is not much different than the originals. They had the advantage of an abundance of habitat. Sadly, and simply, not available here (Utah) in modern days. In my opinion birds released into urban areas would stand a better chance.
I worked for an outfit that released thousands of birds a year. You'd be lucky to find a dozen on the property in July. Most of them, the ones that do escape the admittedly artificial amount of hunting pressure, that survive intially are quickly processed into hawk and skunk feces (technically not feces for hawks, but you get the idea).
Having said all that, if they release 2,000 and one tenth of one percent survive (2 if you don't want to do the math), that's 2 more than were there before. A huge expense for little reward, but a reward none the less.

Thanks for listening, you may now disregard.

Later,
Kev


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

"HOPE" is not a very good "business plan"... ask any successful business person, and they'll tell ya... "HOPE" doesn't do sh*t for you...


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

duckhunter1096 said:


> "HOPE" is not a very good "business plan"... ask any successful business person, and they'll tell ya... "HOPE" doesn't do sh*t for you...


Yup, "hope" is right up there with "try" on my list of worthless words...

Tryin' and hopin' don't get it done! :?

Shane, I thought it was the government that was the biggest waster of money. Now we can add SFW to that list! of course, SFW/DWR same/same... :lol:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario. A couple of years ago you, Tex, were scrambling to find an argument with me and were complaining that the only thing SFW did was dump money into big game (elk) and did nothing for our upland birds. You also complained that they were a business and didn't like the way it was ran. Now you are complaining that they are doing something for pheasants and you are complaining that they AREN'T running it with a wise business plan. wtf?

The fact of the matter is they have done quite a bit in the past to help our Chukar Foundation. Many of the guzzlers the UCWF claims are funded by SFW. This new pheasant release is just another example of them trying to help another upland species in our state. To be quite honest about the whole thing, I really don't care that much. For me hunting pheasants is fun, but they are hell on a good pointer. They no way compare to hunting partridge or quail. I do appreciate the efforts, and I can promise...they were not released with no knowledge of success rates and best practice efforts. _(O)_ :roll:

http://www.sfw.net/news.asp?NewsEvent_ID=27


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I for one will take hope over no hope any day all day. I dont know the first thing about SFW.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Bret, that is because you have and utilize common sense.


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## gpskid (Jul 24, 2012)

SFW rarely spends any of their money , only claims the credit that they did. :mrgreen:


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

SFW just stoled $300,000 from the tax payers, they can afford to waste a little of it on a PR project that will never work. This will be just another one of things, Don can spout off about all the "great" things SFW has done for Utah with the money they got from public resources and now tax payers.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I look at this one as nothing ventured nothing gained. I have spent a good part of my life trying. I would suspect it is the biggest factor in any success I have had. Not trying is the first way to fail.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I look at this one as nothing ventured nothing gained. I have spent a good part of my life trying. I would suspect it is the biggest factor in any success I have had. Not trying is the first way to fail.


+1,if your not failing,your not trying :!:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> I look at this one as nothing ventured nothing gained. I have spent a good part of my life trying. I would suspect it is the biggest factor in any success I have had. Not trying is the first way to fail.


Profound.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

Maybe Don could donte some of that $300,000 to the Utah Stream Access Coalalition. Oh wait never mind because that would only help out the average Utah sportsmen and not the Provo river land owning friends of his on capital hill, and those are the ones who really matter to SFW.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Lame...weren't we talking about pheasants?


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

blackdog said:


> Maybe Don could donte some of that $300,000 to the Utah Stream Access Coalalition. Oh wait never mind because that would only help out the average Utah sportsmen and not the Provo river land owning friends of his on capital hill, and those are the ones who really matter to SFW.


That is IF SFW even cared about Fish... Which they don't.


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

bwhntr said:


> Lame...weren't we talking about pheasants?


SFW stands for Sportsmen for FISH and WILDLIFE... so why not throw fish in here somewhere?!?! LOL :roll:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

ya...I know what the acronym stands for. Or was your comment meant to be silly? Too bad we can't discuss pheasants on here...


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

People amaze me. I have been critical of SFW in the past I'll admit that. The fact is though that the effort extended whether it works or not is indeed an effort put forth for a good cause. It appeared to me from the articles that I have read and the coverage that was done on KSL outdoors that there was a lot of work and effort put into this AND they got kids involved. I would love to see you naysayers out there telling the kids that they were wasting their time and that there is nothing to be gained. Every dollar that hit the ground in effort to improve wildlife and habitat is a dollar well spent IMO.

If you know so **** much about it get involved, head something up and do it the way that you feel it should be done. That would be a lot more honorable than sitting on your butt, taking a knee and throwing rocks from the sidelines. Pathetic.


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I guess it is easy to play armchair biologist.

I dont know where or who these guys "stole" their money from, but that is a pretty harsh accusation. I dont know anything about the organization, but the mention of their name sure gets a few guys in an uproar. I guess It is probably something to do with that big game stuff y'all cherish. I believe wholeheartedly even in this day and age we can have a better pheasant population in this state than we have. I dont know if this is the right way or not if it doesnt work I hope they will try another idea. For an awful long time I have felt that I was the only one that still liked pheasants. It is so good to see effort. Heck I might go to their banquet if this effort to better pheasant pops is going to continue. I guess the "publicity stunt" worked on me.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

From my reading, it would have provided more opportunity to release those birds just before or during the hunt. Sounds like very few will survive till November. Our problem is the lack habitat, pure and simple. I'd love to hunt more pheasant here, but it's a long run for a short slide. Some do really well, but have paid serious dues.

SFW didn't steal any money, our Legislature gave them $300,000 for the second year in a row to lobby against reintroducing wolves. No strings attached, which is, to put it delicately, unusual. My favorite quote is from Don Peay, who, when asked about what was done with last year's gift, responded, "It's been used to do a very complex, political, legal, grass-roots effort."

Sounds like the Wizard of Oz, "Don't look behind the curtain." Here's the Trib article:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/5 ... e.html.csp


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Bret said:


> I guess it is easy to play armchair biologist.
> 
> I dont know where or who these guys "stole" their money from, but that is a pretty harsh accusation. I dont know anything about the organization, but the mention of their name sure gets a few guys in an uproar. I guess It is probably something to do with that big game stuff y'all cherish. I believe wholeheartedly even in this day and age we can have a better pheasant population in this state than we have. I dont know if this is the right way or not if it doesnt work I hope they will try another idea. For an awful long time I have felt that I was the only one that still liked pheasants. It is so good to see effort. Heck I might go to their banquet if this effort to better pheasant pops is going to continue. I guess the "publicity stunt" worked on me.


8)

Lets get you to the Chukar banquet first...one step at a time.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

paddler213 said:


> My favorite quote is from Don Peay, who, when asked about what was done with last year's gift, responded, "It's been used to do a very complex, political, legal, grass-roots effort."


Still off topic...however, there much truth to his statement.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

bwhntr said:


> paddler213 said:
> 
> 
> > My favorite quote is from Don Peay, who, when asked about what was done with last year's gift, responded, "It's been used to do a very complex, political, legal, grass-roots effort."
> ...


Not off topic at all. And, I suppose it depends on how one thinks about wolves. I agree with Aldo Leopold on the subject. Game management seems to view all game species as a crop, which is okay, but is a narrow perspective.

BGF received money up front last year with no oversight.:

_After hearing a similar pitch from Big Game Forever co-founder Ryan Benson, the Legislature last year appropriated $300,000 to fund wolf-related lobbying, with virtually no oversight of precisely how the money was used or what it accomplished. Big Game Forever submitted the only bid to do this lobbying on July 28, 2012, and won the one-year contract four days later._

Further, despite the contract saying the money was to be paid on completion, Styler okayed an immediate payout. It sounds incredibly fishy to me. It violates all the tenets of responsible contracting, and our legislature has now given away $600,000 irresponsibly to a private entity. But it's good work if you can get it, I suppose. :roll:


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I think bwhntr is looking for solutions for pheasants not griping about SFW. Theres atleast a few thousand acres of WMA's and other public land that would be suitable for upland game, in particular Pheasants. What could be done on those parcels? Could we as a "UWN" group adobt a parcel to plant and improve habitat? I can think of a few parcels I'd like to put some work into. All of the WMA's I've been on are decent pieces of land that could carry some good food and cover for birds. Maybe this would just be to hard to get done? I'd love to give it a try. I have a tractor and disc plow. I imagine we could come up with oat seed. Hmmm, anyways, just crazy thoughts.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Pheasants can live in almost any habitat. What they need is standing water. They can't drink from overhead sprinklers. 

Weren't the first pheasants in Utah released from pens?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> If you know so **** much about it get involved, head something up and do it the way that you feel it should be done. That would be a lot more honorable than sitting on your butt, taking a knee and throwing rocks from the sidelines. Pathetic.


Beg your pardon, m'Lord.

Most Utah hunters put other priorities first...weird stuff like job, family, church, homestead, etc. I know a lot of hunters. Don't know a single one sitting on their butts or taking a knee.

I suppose we could bow to those who sit in high places. Me, I've got a bad back that doesn't bow real good. Had it all my life.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> I think bwhntr is looking for solutions for pheasants not griping about SFW. Theres atleast a few thousand acres of WMA's and other public land that would be suitable for upland game, in particular Pheasants. What could be done on those parcels? Could we as a "UWN" group adobt a parcel to plant and improve habitat? I can think of a few parcels I'd like to put some work into. All of the WMA's I've been on are decent pieces of land that could carry some good food and cover for birds. Maybe this would just be to hard to get done? I'd love to give it a try. I have a tractor and disc plow. I imagine we could come up with oat seed. Hmmm, anyways, just crazy thoughts.


I like your thinking...UWC? Come on guys, let's do something IMPORTANT!


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Given the state's population of *****, foxes and skunks, pheasants don't stand a chance. And given the current attitudes about private lands, hunters don't stand a chance, either.

There was a day in Utah when hunters and landowners were friends. Back in that day, hunters didn't need a signed card in their pocket to hunt private land.

Then hunters started doing stupid ****. So landowners agreed to regional access permits. Pay for the stupidity with an access fee.

Then hunters started confronting landowners and the access deal shut down.

There are several places in this state where pheasants are doing very well. But you can't hunt there.

It's a combination of egg predators and slob hunters that brought us where we are today.

As for SFW, if you ain't figured these con men out, you're probably still voting a straight Republican ticket, eh?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

...and now we have come full circle as to why landowners don't allow stream access...however try to stay on topic...lib


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Ok, lets do predator trapping and habitat improvement on the WMA's and other public lands. I'm down to give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I've been reading what information I can come up with and habitat is what is continually stressed. Winter cover and nesting cover are the biggest factors discussed in most places I could find. Access to winter food that is close to winter cover is another big factor always brought up. Then predators are brought up on the tail end. Maybe UWC would jump on something like this. Use it as one of the service projects? Like I say I've got a tractor and a disc and would be willing to pitch in on seed. I agree Finn, hunters have shot themselves in the foot with land owners. There any good trappers that would work with someone on something like this?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I am not getting into the politics of it. I simply acknowledged that an effort has been made and I appreciate those that put in the time in the hope that it works. Water and forage was established first and birds were then released. Will all of them survive? No. Will some? Probably.

Fact is there are some that will not admit that the SFW does anything good. not everybody that is involved with them is making money off of the system. I have pulled fence with a lot of them that just want to help out and make a difference. People can bash this effort all they want but unless YOU are involved and are working on a better plan, it is going to fall on deaf ears with me. Everybody has their own responsibilities and priorities in life. For some it is making a difference, for some it is complaining about those that do, for most it lies somewhere in between.

For the record Finnegan, you sound plenty high and mighty to me right now. Nobody asked you to bow. If you had any idea who I am you would know that I don't much care for bowing by anybody to anybody. Especially to me. I am no more noble than the next guy.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

I think the fact that they released 2000 pheasants made it newsworthy. The mention of habitat improvement took a back seat, but is likely more important in the long term.

I'm sure more can be done to improve habitat on public ground here. It would be interesting to hear more about projects FF is doing now and planning for the future. I don't know how they liaison with our WMAs, but there may be an opportunity to volunteer for projects. I don't think it's important what group one belongs to, be it FF, UWC, SFW, etc, what matters is getting work done on the ground.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Amen paddler, I agree whole heartedly. I'm trying to figure out the WMA liason thing. Curious to see how they are maintained and what one could do to help improve them. If their were a project would guys from this forum be willing to put in some back work?


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm always looking for ways to get my hands dirty.


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## silverkitten73 (Sep 20, 2007)

Well - any of you on here ever hunt the old Bailey Lake Commerical Pheasant Club when United Sportsman used to run it? Well guess what happened to some of the birds that got away - they multiplied and multiplied - and continue to thrive. How did pheasants get here in the first place? Adult birds were turned loose in areas with excellent habitat. Ever talk to your grandfathers or great grandfathers who were farmers around the turn of the last century? The farmers were given boxes of adult pheasants to turn loose. That folks is how they got here in the first place. Only thing missing in much of Utah today is Habitat.

And just for the record SFW - sucks canal water...........


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Idaho (2009). David M. Musil & John W. Connelly. Survival and reproduction of pen-reared vs translocated wild pheasants (Wildl. Biol. 15:80-88). Compared vital rates of two different (pen-reared and wild) ring-necked pheasant stocks and assessed effects of predator control on these pheasants released into current range. Wild (31 males and 112 females) and pen-reared (230 males and 1,059 females) ring-necked pheasants were released in spring into two areas in southern Idaho during 2000–2001 to augment low resident populations. Wild female survival from March to October was significantly greater than that of pen-reared females in both 2000 (40% vs 4%) and 2001 (43% vs 8%). During 2001, predators were removed within our study areas. Survival did not increase for either stock of female pheasants after predator removal. Predator control did not increase the number of hens surviving to reach the nesting season (1 May), nesting rate or nest success. Wild female pheasants were seven times more likely to survive translocation to 1 October, ten times more likely to survive to the nesting season, eight times more productive, and one-third as expensive per egg hatched than pen-reared females. Low survival, poor productivity and higher costs of spring-released pen-reared female pheasants strongly suggest that this is an inappropriate management tool for increasing pheasant numbers


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Finnegan said:


> Given the state's population of *****, foxes and skunks, pheasants don't stand a chance. And given the current attitudes about private lands, hunters don't stand a chance, either.
> 
> There was a day in Utah when hunters and landowners were friends. Back in that day, hunters didn't need a signed card in their pocket to hunt private land.
> 
> ...


 Excellent post, the only thing I would edit is your list of predators, you forgot birds of prey..... 8)


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks, Packfish. Nice study.


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