# thoughts on a new rifle



## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

I need another rifle. I have a rem 721 30-06. A sako 222 mag. I need a legal gun for wyoming big game that my kids can shoot good. The 06 is too big right now. I am debating with myself between a kimber 84m montana and a savage all weather. Yes stainless and synthetic are excactly what i was lookin at. I know they are different prices but not worried about that right now. Caliber selection, I have wanted a 25 cal for a while and the kimber comes in 257 roberts. the savage in 250 savage. Or should I just get a 243? Talk me into or out of it!


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

.308 :mrgreen:


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm thinking the 243 unless your a handloader then I'd go with the 257 roberts.

I'm sitting here thinking up all kinds of options when I read BoOYaA's post and I think *ding, ding, ding* the winner. 308.........perfect!

Also, I have a Kimber 84m Longshooter in .223. It's such a finely finished gun that I'm nervous to take it out much. For a hardcore hunting gun I'd go with the Savage.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

257 Roberts is a nice caliber if your reloading. However you still don't have the versatility of the 30 cal. If its really for the kids, the .308 and reduced loads Ive been using produced about the same or less recoil as a .243. My 10yr old daughter loves it. I went with the Mossberg ATR 100 Bantam and got it for a hair over $300.00 out the door. 20" fluted free floating barrel and adjustable 12"-13" length of pull means she wont outgrow it.

Just a thought.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

243 is a great caliber for smaller framed people and just a pleasure to shoot for anyone larger.  I would lean towards the 308 myself, but then again I am a little bias towards pretty much anything 30 caliber. but that may be to much recoil for someone that is a little "gun shy". I think a 243 should do the trick.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Here let's add to your confusion. Take a look at the 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 6.5x55, or even the 6.8SPC.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

7mm-08


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

ok lets clear up some confusion.I want to be able to shoot small varmint type bullets at high speed like 3300 and bigger deer/antelope bullets 85-100 grain at about 3000 fps. I have a 30 cal and although i dont dis it I dont want another. 6.8 spc is cool but slower than i desire. 7mm-08 is great but I have an elk gun in the 06. I am pretty set on either the 257,250,243,or 6mm remington...Its always fun to here debates on what caliber is the best could go alot of pages. This gun is for one or both of my twelve year olds. One of them is recoil shy but the other is not (loves to shoot his rossi youth combo 20 gauge  )
the main thing is weight. My 06 is a heavy big beast.. I need thoughts on guns. Pros and cons if possible. For example I found a rem 700 bdl SS 243 on ksl. it weighs about 7.5 pounds it is stainless and synthetic like I want. I am not sure about remingtons newer guns though. How does it stack up to the guns i am thinking about?


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

OH how I would love to find a stainless synthetic 6.5 x 55


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## yotee (Oct 10, 2008)

Sounds like a 25-06 is in order here.


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

go with the 257bob....

100gr BT for deer at 3000-3100
and
75gr Vmax for vermin at 3300-3400

A 243 will accomplish basically the same thing, but with a lesser ballistic coeficient.
The 250 savage is the slowest of the 257's, quite sluggish, but effective for deer size critters.
You can Ackley Improve the 257bob later on and mimic the performance of the 25-06.

You may also consider the 260rem, and the 7-08 works really well too!! 
the 308win..... well...... it does pretty much everything!!!! but it's way too boring!!! hahahaha
If you go with the kimber, you wont be sorry. Supposedly they are releasing a 280AI 8400 this year!!!!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!!


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I think that any of the calibers listed would be great for younger kids and for your own personal enjoyment as well. I also think that either rifle will keep you pretty darn happy too.

Regarding caliber, I think you kind of answered your question earlier when you said you wanted to shoot varmints as well. To me, the answer is a .243 Win. Although the bullets have a lower BC, there is a very wide selection of bullet options available. You would likely get the most enjoyment out of this caliber as opposed to others, but thats just my opinion.

Also, my second suggestion would be a tie between the 260 Rem and the 7mm-08. The more I read and shoot, the more I like these calibers. Something about those high BC bullets in the .264/6.5mm category just tickles my fancy to no end!

I'm going to echo Chets statement about the 250 Savage being slow. This caliber would be the last choice I would make from your list just because there are so many others that can out perform this caliber.

Good luck!


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## 10yearquest (Oct 15, 2009)

Bax you nailed it. this gun may be for my kids but that doesn't mean I won"t use it too. I really want a 25 caliber medium action so the 25-06 is out. The 308, and 243 are boring I love strange calibers. If I wasnt wanting the ability to do varmint bullets I would go with a 7mm-08, 260, 6.5 whatever. The big problem is that most gun makers do not currently offer the 257 roberts. This is the one I really want. I almost had my hands on a pre 64 winchester 257 roberts that was my great grandfathers. OHHH. I wish... Kimber is the only one to offer this caliber in a stainless synthetic gun. Still not sure I should spend that kind of money? The savage is offered in 250 or 243. Its fun to think about though. I should save up and get an ar10 huh! then I could get a bunch of different 308 based barrels.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Having a rifle rebarrelled to whatever caliber you want is much easier and economical than most people think. Go down to the local pawn shop, pick up which ever action you want to base your creation on, then send it to your local 'smith. Stocks from Boyds are cheap and fun to work on. And you get to chamber it for any non-boring caliber you choose.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Loke said:


> Having a rifle rebarrelled to whatever caliber you want is much easier and economical than most people think. Go down to the local pawn shop, pick up which ever action you want to base your creation on, then send it to your local 'smith. Stocks from Boyds are cheap and fun to work on. And you get to chamber it for any non-boring caliber you choose.


Excellent point Loke! I have been considering doing this myself.

I looked at Midway USA and they carry a .257 Roberts barrel for a Savage 110, but unfortunately it is out of stock and blued (made by Adams & Bennet, never heard of them... but price is $135). 
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=718000

This is actually a great suggestion IMO. If you arent wanting to go with the Kimber, you could likely find a great option for not a whole lot of money. I own several Kimbers, Chet owns several, and Longbow has at least one that I know of. I personally really like them and think their accuracy is good. Those Montana 84M rifles would be perfect for a kid to carry, so I can see the appeal of the rifle.

Recoil is really tolerable for the .243 Win, .257 Roberts, .260 Rem, and the 7mm-08, but the .308 might be a bit heavy unless you work on some reduced loads like Bo0YaA has been doing for his kids. As much as I agree with the affection toward strange calibers, keep in mind that you _may_ want a caliber that is fairly common (just in case you forgot to bring bullets with you and realized it after you drove 300 miles and need to buy them in a small town).

Those AR-10s seem like fun (especially the Remington R-25s), but boy they are heavy (8.75 lbs), so I dont know if you would want to have your kids lug those around all day. But wouldnt that be great to get one in .243 and sit on a p-dog town shooting distance?!

I'm really interested to hear what you end up buying. All of these calibers have such a great reputation that you really cant go wrong with any. But you gotta get something that you will personally enjoy using as well (cuz we all know we dont buy guns for loved ones unless we have a secret interest in them as well)


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's a link to E R Shaw. They installed a barrel for me a couple of years ago. I found their prices to be very reasonable, and accurate enough for prairie dogs on the far side of 600 yards (now if I could shoot that good we'd be in business).
http://ershawbarrels.com/scb-price-list.php


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Loke, you have excellent suggestions today (not that you ever have bad ones). ER Shaw is supposed to have great barrels (according to Mr Petzel) and that is really a reasonable price right there!


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

of the calbiers you stated that you are pretty set on getting the .243 gets my vote since it has the largest selection of factory ammo to choose from.

I killed my first couple of dozen deer with one, along the way I also killed two black bears, never a problem with it, lost 1 deer as a direct result of my piss poor shooting, shot it in the leg, never found it.

I would vote Remington model 7 if I was getting it for my kids.


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## muzzlehutn (Oct 26, 2007)

25-06 if you wanna use your 30-06 brass .257 Weatherby or 25-06 .264 Rem, would be good choices


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What is a 264 Rem?


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Loke said:


> What is a 264 Rem?


Silly smoke pole guys just dont pay attention to cartridges jk :lol:

I assume Muzzlehutn meant .260 Rem?


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm guessing that he means the .264 Win Mag. The case is very similar to that of the 7mm Rem Mag necked down to take 6.5MM bullets. A real barrel burner.---------SS


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

You're putting the cart before the horse there Shooter. The 264 was introduced in 1958, the 7mm was introduced in 1962 to compete with the 264. The only real advantage the Remington round had over the Winchester round was the Model 700 that it was chambered in. Then in 1964, Winchester accountants redesigned the Model 70, and the rest is history (like the 264). The 264 is no harder on barrels than any other high pressure cartridge. Don't over heat it, clean it properly, and it will last just as long as your 7mmRemMag, STW, Short Mag, Long Mag, or whatever.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Right you are on all counts Loke, I only used the 7mm case as an example that most folks are familiar with and could visualize. The 264 was first and was a legend in it's time. I think that if more folks understood ballistics then like they do now, it might well have truly become what the 7mm Rem is now. But, like the 6mm Rem and the 243 win, the best cartridge doesn't always win. I also agree with you about the barrel life in theory, but I do know that in the 1000 yd crowd who take very good care of their barrels that the 264 win and 6.5-284 do have a reputation for shorter barrel life. As a younger man stuck on loading top end, I did burn out 3 barrels in 7MM Rem mag at about 1000 shots each before wising up and chambering for 7 Dakota and settling for a nice easy medium load with heavier bullets. Oh the follies of youth and handloading!-------SS


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## muzzlehutn (Oct 26, 2007)

.264 Winchester Mag, But the only factory loads are made by Remington in 140gr and by Nosler custom in 130 gr. Thats where i got mixed up. 
But if ya want a soft kickin Hard Hittin i would still go with the .257 "Weatherby" No Mistakes there!


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Loke said:


> Don't over heat it, clean it properly, and it will last just as long as your 7mmRemMag, STW, Short Mag, Long Mag, or whatever.


Wise advise. You can't believe how much faster you can burn out a barrel by overheating it.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

I can believe, I've done it. In one day. With a cartridge that gunwriters describe as "easy on the barrel".


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