# BYU Sports Ethics



## dunn_gary

I don't know how many of you know, or even care about this. But, just wondering what the outside of Cache Valley take is on BYU visiting with High School All American Riley Nelson while he is little more than half finished with his LDS Mission to Spain. The visit was to get him to commit to play at BYU after he returns home. He previously commited to Utah State, and played his freshman year there. BYU showed no interest in him just out of high school, but now, go to Spain, get his mission president to allow the visit and grant time to "ponder the decision". Mind you, I don't fault Riley in this so much. Given USU's current program, why would anyone want to play there? But, can you imagine his mission president allowing coaches from the U or USU to do the same? Never would happen.

My personal view, is that it's one of the tackiest things I've seen done in College Sports, and shows how classless BYU can really be.


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## bigbr

I believe that Shawn Bradley was continually hounded on his mission to Australia, by not only other colleges, but pro scouts, even after he had signed with BYU. Ben Olson was recruited on his mission by Norm Chow and ended up at UCLA after redshirting one year for the Cougars.

I just hope these kids choose the college that they can get the best education from, because chances of becoming a professional ball player are very slim even at the Celestial High Y.

Bigbr


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## Kevin D

You'd think BYU of all schools would respect the time away a kid spends on a mission.....it sends the message to other college sports programs that mission fields are open recruiting grounds.

I wish the best for Riley.


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## Riverrat77

Kevin D said:


> You'd think BYU of all schools would respect the time away a kid spends on a mission.....it sends the message to other college sports programs that mission fields are open recruiting grounds..


I agree with you Kevin. For them to advocate kids going on a mission is grand... but if they're out there to convert people to the LDS church and supposedly avoid or ignore outside distractions to focus mainly on the Lord's work, it is definitely a contradiction of that "theory" to have recruiters talking to the young man trying to change his mind about where he goes to school instead of helping him focus on the job at hand.


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## jahan

I was going to start a thread on this today. Bronco is sure a real piece of work. :roll: Many know I am a USU guy and I could care less if they took Riley Nielson since our football team would suck with or without him. I also don't blame Riley, but I am more than pieved at the messiah, Bronco. Did he not say he would not recruit kids while they were on their mission. This is funny, then why did he take a trip up to Logan to meet with Logan High School football coach, which is good friends with the Nielson family, to let him know there is a scholarship available at BYU when they come back. That is recruiting in my book. Also tacky as hell. He is living a double standard. 

Another funny thing is Bronco did a poor job recruiting a few years ago and doesn't have a future quarterback, hence needing to recruit Riley. Why was Riley not good enough three years ago?

Lastly Riley should lose one year of eligibility IMO. He is transferring from one D1 school to another, he should lose a year. The ONLY time I don't think this should apply is for the military.

Also isn't also on the first page of the guideline book for missionaries to leave all personal matters at home because you are here to serve god. Ummmmm, since when is BYU football serving god? :? Well this ought to get a good discussion going.


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## NHS

I think all of you USU guys are just eating sour grapes. :mrgreen:


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## bowhunter3

Don't get me started on the double standard at yBu, I have talked about this a lot and get chastized for it all the time. I know second hand what goes on at that school. They are all about winning and making money, not about religion trust me. Can't stand the hypocrisy that goes on there, half the reason I can't stand the school.


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## jahan

NHS said:


> I think all of you USU guys are just eating sour grapes. :mrgreen:


I could care less about the football, but if they take Stew Morrill I will snap. :shock: :lol: It is obvious that most coaches recruit while kids are on missions, which I don't agree with, but a lot do it. The only difference is they don't say they won't do it, then do it. 8) I am not worried about USU, I hear they have an awesome recruit that is do out of prison here really quick.  :lol:


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## fixed blade XC-3

bowhunter3 said:


> yBu


I used to think you were slightly dyslexics(thanks again firefox) but now I think your spelling it like this on purpose  . I finally get it. I'm a little slow.


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## Chaser

Yeah a recruiting visit to a missionary isn't just tacky, its downright wrong. I felt wrong in talking to my family on the phone outside of Christmas and Mother's Day, and then these guys go and distract this kid halfway through his mission. In all fairness however, my mission president did allow many of the missionaries in my mission, including myself, a chance to call home to work out our post-mission educational plans, the difference there, is that the U of U didn't come out to Missouri and distract me! No doubt about it, this visit is contrary to missionary protocol.


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## Guns and Flies

I think Bronco is a good guy, and I think we all make poor decisions at times. I couldn't care less makes a lot more sense than I could care less..... :wink:


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## GaryFish

As I read the stories, I didn't see that BYU visited him in Spain. The accounts in the papers say that they visited with his Dad in Logan, and his Dad communicated with Nelson in Spain. And then BYU contacted Nelso via email - not a personal visit. I think there is a difference so if someone can explain - that would be great.

IF BYU coaching staff visited him personally in Spain, that is messed up and I don't support it. 
IF BYU coaching staff talked to Logan High School coaches, putting word out, and as a result, Nelson's Dad contacted BYU - I am OK with that.
IF Nelson's Dad contacted BYU and served as the go-between between the kid and the school, I am OK with that. 

As for Nelson losing any eligibility - regardless of what school the player attends - if he plays one year, does a mission for two years, I think he should be able to transfer whereever he wants without penalty. Taking two years away from athletic conditioning and competition is a severe penalty - and is why so few returned missionaries make it to the pros in any sport. Most will save their redshirt year for after their mission just so they can get in proper condition for that very reason. So if Nelson were transferring to the utahutes, I'd support him and think he should do it without pentalty.

As for BYU sports ethics in general - I'll assume we are talking about the football team, since everything else is really quite irrelovent. Witnessing things very closely at BYU back in my day, there was a lot that wan't on the up and up. The program had, and probably does still have, its warts. I do believe it is cleaner than most, and for the most part, it is recognized that most student athletes will never make the pros - and the programs work hard to help the kids be good people and make the right choices. I think this is the same at the other schools in Utah as well.

Is BYU football about winning and revenues? Absolutely. I don't think the program is perfect, but I do think it is better than most at what they do, and how they do it.


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## bowhunter3

fixed blade said:


> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yBu
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think you were slightly dyslexics(thanks again firefox) but now I think your spelling it like this on purpose  . I finally get it. I'm a little slow.
Click to expand...

 :wink: I am doing it on purpose :lol:


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## bowhunter3

GaryFish said:


> As I read the stories, I didn't see that BYU visited him in Spain. The accounts in the papers say that they visited with his Dad in Logan, and his Dad communicated with Nelson in Spain. And then BYU contacted Nelso via email - not a personal visit. I think there is a difference so if someone can explain - that would be great.
> 
> IF BYU coaching staff visited him personally in Spain, that is messed up and I don't support it.
> IF BYU coaching staff talked to Logan High School coaches, putting word out, and as a result, Nelson's Dad contacted BYU - I am OK with that.
> IF Nelson's Dad contacted BYU and served as the go-between between the kid and the school, I am OK with that.
> 
> As for Nelson losing any eligibility - regardless of what school the player attends - if he plays one year, does a mission for two years, I think he should be able to transfer whereever he wants without penalty. Taking two years away from athletic conditioning and competition is a severe penalty - and is why so few returned missionaries make it to the pros in any sport. Most will save their redshirt year for after their mission just so they can get in proper condition for that very reason. So if Nelson were transferring to the utahutes, I'd support him and think he should do it without pentalty.
> 
> As for BYU sports ethics in general - I'll assume we are talking about the football team, since everything else is really quite irrelovent. Witnessing things very closely at BYU back in my day, there was a lot that wan't on the up and up. The program had, and probably does still have, its warts. I do believe it is cleaner than most, and for the most part, it is recognized that most student athletes will never make the pros - and the programs work hard to help the kids be good people and make the right choices. I think this is the same at the other schools in Utah as well.
> 
> *Is BYU football about winning and revenues? Absolutely. I don't think the program is perfect, but I do think it is better than most at what they do, and how they do it*.


They are just like any other school in the country, the problem is the image they want everyone to believe in. They lie about there ethics and honor code. Why have this and tell people how important this is if you are going to look the other way unless it gets out in the public. Make no mistake they are like everyone else, they just tell people they do it the right way and they don't make no mistake about that. I don't care how this happened but he is serving a mission for the church that yBu belongs to and they go and disrupt his duties to ask him to come to there school. Does that make since to you, don't they say that serving God is more important than football, apparently not. I have known this for a while, hope more people start seeing there hypocracy now


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## jahan

GaryFish said:


> As I read the stories, I didn't see that BYU visited him in Spain. The accounts in the papers say that they visited with his Dad in Logan, and his Dad communicated with Nelson in Spain. And then BYU contacted Nelso via email - not a personal visit. I think there is a difference so if someone can explain - that would be great.
> 
> IF BYU coaching staff visited him personally in Spain, that is messed up and I don't support it.
> IF BYU coaching staff talked to Logan High School coaches, putting word out, and as a result, Nelson's Dad contacted BYU - I am OK with that.
> IF Nelson's Dad contacted BYU and served as the go-between between the kid and the school, I am OK with that.
> 
> As for Nelson losing any eligibility - regardless of what school the player attends - if he plays one year, does a mission for two years, I think he should be able to transfer whereever he wants without penalty. Taking two years away from athletic conditioning and competition is a severe penalty - and is why so few returned missionaries make it to the pros in any sport. Most will save their redshirt year for after their mission just so they can get in proper condition for that very reason. So if Nelson were transferring to the utahutes, I'd support him and think he should do it without pentalty.
> 
> As for BYU sports ethics in general - I'll assume we are talking about the football team, since everything else is really quite irrelovent. Witnessing things very closely at BYU back in my day, there was a lot that wan't on the up and up. The program had, and probably does still have, its warts. I do believe it is cleaner than most, and for the most part, it is recognized that most student athletes will never make the pros - and the programs work hard to help the kids be good people and make the right choices. I think this is the same at the other schools in Utah as well.
> 
> Is BYU football about winning and revenues? Absolutely. I don't think the program is perfect, but I do think it is better than most at what they do, and how they do it.


Garyfish, the point I am making is Bronco said he would not recruit anyone while they were on there mission and he recruited Riley while he was on his mission. That is hypocritical.

As far a the eligibility he made the CHOICE to go on the mission, he was not forced, at least I hope not. He also is going to make the CHOICE to go to another D1 school so he should lose a year a eligibility. I am not saying this because he is going to BYU, I would expect it if anyone on a mission transferred to another D1 school while on a mission or once they got back.

The problem I have with BYU is they are just being hypocritical. Now they are not doing anything illegal or anything any other school isn't doing, but none of the other schools are saying they won't do these types of activities.


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## proutdoors

Nothing but a bunch of excuses to bash BYU. The mission president gave permission for BYU to contact Elder Riley BEFORE they called Spain. This happens way more often than people realize, usually it is coaches from other schools calling BYU players while on their missions. Ironically, I doubt Riley will ever be a starter at BYU. All it odes is save him from having to be called an Aggie. :mrgreen: 

To assert that BYU is guilty of conduct that other Div I schools won't/don't do is absurd and unfounded. I realize folks like bowhunter3 dislike BYU, but that is no excuse to make things appear different than they really are. :?


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## jahan

proutdoors said:


> Nothing but a bunch of excuses to bash BYU. The mission president gave permission for BYU to contact Elder Riley BEFORE they called Spain. This happens way more often than people realize, usually it is coaches from other schools calling BYU players while on their missions. Ironically, I doubt Riley will ever be a starter at BYU. All it odes is save him from having to be called an Aggie. :mrgreen:
> 
> *To assert that BYU is guilty of conduct that other Div I schools won't/don't do is absurd and unfounded.* I realize folks like bowhunter3 dislike BYU, but that is no excuse to make things appear different than they really are. :?


I agree completely with you on this statement, BUT those others schools don't say they won't do those activities. Also I don't care if God himself gave them permission to talk to Riley, they did what they said they wouldn't do. Also since when is sports important enough to go against their own guidelines. :? I also agree with you that I don't think Riley will ever be a starter at BYU and I think he made a smart decision, I don't blame him at all, but it should come with a loss of a year in eligibility, like any other athlete transferring to another D1 school.


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## bowhunter3

proutdoors said:


> Nothing but a bunch of excuses to bash BYU. The mission president gave permission for BYU to contact Elder Riley BEFORE they called Spain. This happens way more often than people realize, usually it is coaches from other schools calling BYU players while on their missions. Ironically, I doubt Riley will ever be a starter at BYU. All it odes is save him from having to be called an Aggie. :mrgreen:
> 
> To assert that BYU is guilty of conduct that other Div I schools won't/don't do is absurd and unfounded. I realize folks like bowhunter3 dislike BYU, but that is no excuse to make things appear different than they really are. :?


It has nothing to do with my dislike for the school. They are hypocrits and you know it. Other schools do this all the time, if you read what I wrote you would know I said that. The problem is they are telling these young kids that sports are more important that there religion there are pushing so hard. The way things go down at yBu is not what you think. I have been friends with many players from the Y through my days in athletics and the program is not about honor and ethics and following the rules that regular students at the Y have to conform to. Think what you want, keep looking through the blue glasses, but it goes on. Is it what other schools do, yes but they don't have the rules that they do or pretend to be something else. Why would you think this is good form from yBu to do this? Is the whole intent of a misssion to get a way from wordly things and focus on religion? Is yBu a LDS school?


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## GaryFish

Jumping back many years to my own experiences, about half way through my mission, I began making arrangements for what I'd be doing when I got home. I was a dedicated missionary, but there are logistical things you are always considering. Where to go to school. Getting your applications turned in. For BYU, I had to re-apply to attend after my mission, and that process started 8 months before I got home due to when the semesters fell. Once those things are in place, then you deal with housing, roommates, jobs, all that stuff. It all takes time. So I sympathize with any missionary who is making those plans. I think it realistic he is doing this now.

Dick Harmon's column today is interesting to read. It is splitting hairs in a big way but worth reading. No one can seem to find where Bronco condemned talking to missionaries.
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700229902,00.html

Realistically, if you are a BYU hater, you will find this as another reason to hate on them. If you are Cougar Fan, you split hairs and find nothing wrong with it.

Seeing a bigger picture - one where Bronco just suspended a returning, starting running back for a year because he wasn't living up to the committments he made to the program - I find it hard to grasp the assertions of Bronco crossing ethical lines and breaking any recuiting rules for a Utah State QB that only once could put up more than 14 points. Looking at the fruits of how Bronco has run the program since taking over the mess Crowton created, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.


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## proutdoors

To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.


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## bowhunter3

Gary FIsh, I actually like Bronco, I think he is one of the more stand up guys in sports at yBu. He has made some mistakes, but I really like and respect the guy. But, he didnt suspend the running back for honor code stuff, it was for grades, he was not eligable to play it was out of his hands.


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## jahan

proutdoors said:


> To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.


How? :? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.


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## proutdoors

jahan said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.
> 
> 
> 
> How? :? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.
Click to expand...

If Brian Johnson left school for TWO YEARS and then transferred to USU he would NOT lose a year of eligibility. Hence, it would be a different rule for LDS kids.


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## Treehugnhuntr

proutdoors said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.
> 
> 
> 
> How? :? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Brian Johnson left school for TWO YEARS and then transferred to USU he would NOT lose a year of eligibility. Hence, it would be a different rule for LDS kids.
Click to expand...

LDS kids should have a different set of rules...... They're weird! :wink: :mrgreen:


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## GaryFish

> Gary FIsh, I actually like Bronco, I think he is one of the more stand up guys in sports at yBu. He has made some mistakes, but I really like and respect the guy. But, he didnt suspend the running back for honor code stuff, it was for grades, he was not eligable to play it was out of his hands.


That is true. But at most other places, there would have been "ways around it." Players sitting out a year for grades just doesn't happen at most schools.

So to change gears on the discussion - Here is another look at things.

Is BYU that desparate that they are actually recruiting players from Utah State? 
or
Is BYU that good that players are jumping ship from other schools to ride the Cougar wave?
or
Are we all going nuts with the rivers blown out, no hunting season open, and spring fever has the best of us?


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## fixed blade XC-3

:? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.[/quote]If Brian Johnson left school for TWO YEARS and then transferred to USU he would NOT lose a year of eligibility. Hence, it would be a different rule for LDS kids.[/quote]

LDS kids should have a different set of rules...... They're weird! :wink: :mrgreen: [/quote]

And most of them are bald.


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## jahan

proutdoors said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.
> 
> 
> 
> How? :? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Brian Johnson left school for TWO YEARS and then transferred to USU he would NOT lose a year of eligibility. Hence, it would be a different rule for LDS kids.
Click to expand...

Well Pro it is official, I hate you. :wink: I hate you when you prove me wrong. I was not aware of that rule. If you can leave school for two years, come back to a new school and NOT lose a year of eligibility, then I take back my stance on Riley losing a year of eligibility. The rule needs to be universal and consistent, which is what I think you are saying. 

Gary, I am going with the last choice. Also I would add the option that the Aggies suck so bad anywhere else looks good.  :mrgreen:


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## Treehugnhuntr

All I know is that the red team _might_ beat Utah State this year.


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## Huge29

proutdoors said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.
> 
> 
> 
> How? :? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If Brian Johnson left school for TWO YEARS and then transferred to USU he would NOT lose a year of eligibility. Hence, it would be a different rule for LDS kids.
Click to expand...

Pro, you turkey, you stole my post!! -oOo-

As diehard Y fan, way more diehard than Pro,,,he he he...I have an issue with what happened, I was very peeved when Ben Olson left, but again, not mad at UCLA, mad at Bennie himself. I must admit as all must admit that Bronco must like the taste of crow. On 1320 last night they played Bronco's signing day quote about how the recruits stick with their word and that says a lot about their dedication and that is the kind of person that they want and they would not even take someone who changed their mind and changed their mind back to go to the Y, makes him look bad. In reality, though in 18 months from now, who gives a rats arse? Let's just play football, this is simply all of us so excited for football in the off season that it is the only thing to discuss. I was the exec sec for my mission and made several calls to USU and such about education plans for other missionaries, no big deal. The only real issue I have is that the recruiter mentioned to the former coach of their interest...

I think Gary explained it very well, haters now hate more and the typical delusional Y fan will justify it any way he can, I like to think of myself as a realist, but my wife disagrees.


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## Guns and Flies

Good to see everyone kissed and made up before this went 10 pages


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## Treehugnhuntr

??? 

http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/122196/firedbyu.htm


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## fixed blade XC-3

I hate B.Y.U. Their fans all love soccer too! If ya know what I mean. Wink, Wink, :wink:


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## Comrade Duck

No trips were made to spain to recruit Riley. Those of you who believed that and then passed judgement because of it are too easily persuaded. How gullible do you have to be to buy off on that one? 

Bronco never made any recruiting trips to Logan to talk with the high school coach. It was all done through an assistant (Higgens) and the coach himself. I really don't believe the offense was as egregious as you haters are making it out to be. It sounds like, per Riley's Dad, that Riley's name was brought up in casual conversation between the two coaches and that after some talking BYU let him know that they would have some interest. Coach Higgens is assigned cache valley as his recruiting area. He wasn't just up their on special assignment to get Riley.

I realize that while you are on your mission you are suppose to be focussed on the work. Everyone though that has plans to go to school upon returning takes the time somewhere within the mission to get things arranged. It happens. There is life after the mission. While I was on my mission I took the time to arrange my schooling at USU. Was it a distraction? A little, but it was necessary. To insinuate that the President wouldn't have let him arrange things with the U of U had he chosen to go there is absurd.

I think Bronco is a good guy and has done a lot of good things at BYU. Is he perfect? No. Does he make mistakes? You bet. The fact that the worst thing you can get him on is his "hypocrisy" for allowing a kid to be recruited on his mission speaks volumes about the type of coach that he is.


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## jahan

Comrade Duck said:


> *No trips were made to spain to recruit Riley. Those of you who believed that and then passed judgement because of it are too easily persuaded. How gullible do you have to be to buy off on that one?*
> 
> Bronco never made any recruiting trips to Logan to talk with the high school coach. It was all done through an assistant (Higgens) and the coach himself. I really don't believe the offense was as egregious as you haters are making it out to be. It sounds like, per Riley's Dad, that Riley's name was brought up in casual conversation between the two coaches and that after some talking BYU let him know that they would have some interest. Coach Higgens is assigned cache valley as his recruiting area. He wasn't just up their on special assignment to get Riley.
> 
> I realize that while you are on your mission you are suppose to be focussed on the work. Everyone though that has plans to go to school upon returning takes the time somewhere within the mission to get things arranged. It happens. There is life after the mission. While I was on my mission I took the time to arrange my schooling at USU. Was it a distraction? A little, but it was necessary. To insinuate that the President wouldn't have let him arrange things with the U of U had he chosen to go there is absurd.
> 
> I think Bronco is a good guy and has done a lot of good things at BYU. Is he perfect? No. Does he make mistakes? You bet. The fact that the worst thing you can get him on is his "hypocrisy" for allowing a kid to be recruited on his mission speaks volumes about the type of coach that he is.


I knew the ultimate BYU homer would show up. :wink:  Just playing with ya. Not one person has said they went to Spain and quite frankly I have no idea where some of you guys are pulling that out of. You sure can spin it though. :lol: Also I never said Bronco was a bad guy, in fact, he seems like a good guy, but he is still a hypocrite. :mrgreen:


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## bowhunter3

Comrade Duck said:


> No trips were made to spain to recruit Riley. Those of you who believed that and then passed judgement because of it are too easily persuaded. How gullible do you have to be to buy off on that one?
> 
> *Bronco never made any recruiting trips to Logan to talk with the high school coach. It was all done through an assistant (Higgens) and the coach himself. * I really don't believe the offense was as egregious as you haters are making it out to be. It sounds like, per Riley's Dad, that Riley's name was brought up in casual conversation between the two coaches and that after some talking BYU let him know that they would have some interest. Coach Higgens is assigned cache valley as his recruiting area. He wasn't just up their on special assignment to get Riley.
> 
> I realize that while you are on your mission you are suppose to be focussed on the work. Everyone though that has plans to go to school upon returning takes the time somewhere within the mission to get things arranged. It happens. There is life after the mission. While I was on my mission I took the time to arrange my schooling at USU. Was it a distraction? A little, but it was necessary. To insinuate that the President wouldn't have let him arrange things with the U of U had he chosen to go there is absurd.
> 
> I think Bronco is a good guy and has done a lot of good things at BYU. Is he perfect? No. Does he make mistakes? You bet. The fact that the worst thing you can get him on is his "hypocrisy" for allowing a kid to be recruited on his mission speaks volumes about the type of coach that he is.


Everything goes through the head coach, he knew about it and told him to go, are you that foolish to not believe that? The hypocrisy is not just with them recruiting a missionary but how they run the athletic department, they are focused more on winning than following there own rules and guidlines. That is what bugs me and that is hypocrisy. They hold themselves to a higher standard and so does there fans, if they are going to preach something they better follow through with it


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## Comrade Duck

bowhunter3 said:


> Everything goes through the head coach, he knew about it and told him to go, are you that foolish to not believe that? The hypocrisy is not just with them recruiting a missionary but how they run the athletic department, they are focused more on winning than following there own rules and guidlines. That is what bugs me and that is hypocrisy. They hold themselves to a higher standard and so does there fans, if they are going to preach something they better follow through with it


Coach Higgens was going to be there recruiting whether Riley was an option or not. That's his area and there are some recruits in the valley the Y has there eyes on. His Dad said that Riley's name was brought up in "casual" conversation. I don't think Riley was as big a target as some might think he was. I think Higgens saw the opportunity to express some interest and took it, and from there the relationship evolved.

What do I know though? In fact, what does anyone know? At this point we are all speculating. Until we hear from the two coaches involved in the initial contact we won't know who started what.

So far you have made a lot of accusations in general terms. Give some specifics. You seem to know so much about the BYU athletic department. Lets hear what you got.

Shane


----------



## Comrade Duck

jahan said:


> I knew the *ultimate BYU homer* would show up. :wink:  Just playing with ya. Not one person has said they went to Spain and quite frankly I have no idea where some of you guys are pulling that out of. You sure can spin it though. :lol: Also I never said Bronco was a bad guy, in fact, he seems like a good guy, but he is still a hypocrite. :mrgreen:


Sweet. At least I'm known for something.



dunn_gary said:


> BYU showed no interest in him just out of high school, but now, *go to Spain, get his mission president to allow the visit *and grant time to "ponder the decision". Mind you, I don't fault Riley in this so much. Given USU's current program, why would anyone want to play there? But, can you imagine his mission president allowing coaches from the U or USU to do the same? Never would happen.





ChaserOfAllBirds said:


> Yeah a *recruiting visit to a missionary *isn't just tacky, its downright wrong. I felt wrong in talking to my family on the phone outside of Christmas and Mother's Day, and then these guys go and distract this kid halfway through his mission. In all fairness however, my mission president did allow many of the missionaries in my mission, including myself, a chance to call home to work out our post-mission educational plans, the difference there, is that *the U of U didn't come out to Missouri and distract me! No doubt about it, this visit is contrary to missionary protocol*.


That's where I pulled it out of. No spin.

Shane


----------



## jahan

I will be damned some people did mention it. I apologize Shane.   Nothing wrong with being a fan of any team, I did not say that as an insult, just so you know. I was just trying to be funny, and it obviously didn't work. Sorry.


----------



## Nibble Nuts

bowhunter3 said:


> Everything goes through the head coach, he knew about it and told him to go, are you that foolish to not believe that? The hypocrisy is not just with them recruiting a missionary but how they run the athletic department, they are focused more on winning than following there own rules and guidlines. That is what bugs me and that is hypocrisy. They hold themselves to a higher standard and so does there fans, if they are going to preach something they better follow through with it


Then please give some examples of this outlandish hypocrisy. I have friends who played football for the Y, and they never felt there's an untold culture of hypocrisy in the catastrophic porportions you are claiming. I wouldn't expect anything else though from someone who thinks that using the term ybu is clever, or even insulting to a Y fan.


----------



## Comrade Duck

jahan said:


> I will be damned some people did mention it. I apologize Shane.   Nothing wrong with being a fan of any team, I did not say that as an insult, just so you know. I was just trying to be funny, and it obviously didn't work. Sorry.


I was going to try and be funny in return and make fun of your aggie education for not reading it right the first time, but I'm an aggie alum myself. Don't want to come across as a hypocritical BYU fan. :wink:

Shane


----------



## HOGAN

BYU Sports Ethics is an oxymoron!!!!


----------



## proutdoors

HOGAN said:


> BYU Sports Ethics is an oxymoron!!!!


As is U of U education. :? Or U of U class. :shock:


----------



## BIGBEAN

Proutdoors I am liking your comments more an more.


----------



## proutdoors

HOGAN said:


> BYU Sports Ethics is an oxymoron!!!!


You love this one BigBean;
U of U Sports Ethics is defined by an on-side kick when the outcome of the game is a given, and then trying to defend it, and then try and say a last second basket is the equivalent. :?


----------



## Nibble Nuts

proutdoors said:


> HOGAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> BYU Sports Ethics is an oxymoron!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> As is U of U education. :? Or U of U class. :shock:
Click to expand...

 :rotfl:


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Wow! I missed a lot. I was busy the last 2 hours trying to explain to a U student how to get the top off of a bottle of orange juice. Whew, I sure am spent.


----------



## BIGBEAN

proutdoors wrote:


> You love this one BigBean;
> U of U Sports Ethics is defined by an on-side kick when the outcome of the game is a given, and then trying to defend it, and then try and say a last second basket is the equivalent. :?


Yeah that is pretty good. Almost as good as someone who attended Carbon High trying to speak intelligently about football (other than Jan Jorensen of course). jk :lol:


----------



## proutdoors

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Wow! I missed a lot. I was busy the last 2 hours trying to explain to a U student how to get the top off of a bottle of orange juice. Whew, I sure am spent.


Did they get hung up by the word "concentrate"?


----------



## SteepNDeep

Do mormons have saints?

I nominate Bronco the patron saint of awesome!


----------



## bowhunter3

Nibble Nuts said:


> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything goes through the head coach, he knew about it and told him to go, are you that foolish to not believe that? The hypocrisy is not just with them recruiting a missionary but how they run the athletic department, they are focused more on winning than following there own rules and guidlines. That is what bugs me and that is hypocrisy. They hold themselves to a higher standard and so does there fans, if they are going to preach something they better follow through with it
> 
> 
> 
> Then please give some examples of this outlandish hypocrisy. I have friends who played football for the Y, and they never felt there's an untold culture of hypocrisy in the catastrophic porportions you are claiming. I wouldn't expect anything else though from someone who thinks that using the term ybu is clever, or even insulting to a Y fan.
Click to expand...

recruiting someone while on a mission is an example. Dudes on the basketball team told me while playing. Vranes used to tell me stories all the time how the athletic department would know of parties and drinking and drugs that were going on but would look the other way. They would get caught with every girl out there in there rooms and not a darn thing would happen to them. I met Rodney Jenkins a while ago while he was at NAU and he told me crazy stories of what goes on there, how he was treated like a god until it got out that he was breaking rules. No one cared until the press got a hold of it. That is just how it goes. You can't tell me the normal every day student can get away with that stuff. My dad went there and played baseball for a year, and he said the same thing, players would have a dip in there mouth while at practices. He couldn't stand it and transfered to the good school :lol:


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

bowhunter3 said:


> Nibble Nuts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything goes through the head coach, he knew about it and told him to go, are you that foolish to not believe that? The hypocrisy is not just with them recruiting a missionary but how they run the athletic department, they are focused more on winning than following there own rules and guidlines. That is what bugs me and that is hypocrisy. They hold themselves to a higher standard and so does there fans, if they are going to preach something they better follow through with it
> 
> 
> 
> Then please give some examples of this outlandish hypocrisy. I have friends who played football for the Y, and they never felt there's an untold culture of hypocrisy in the catastrophic porportions you are claiming. I wouldn't expect anything else though from someone who thinks that using the term ybu is clever, or even insulting to a Y fan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> recruiting someone while on a mission is an example. Dudes on the basketball team told me while playing. Vranes used to tell me stories all the time how the athletic department would know of parties and drinking and drugs that were going on but would look the other way. They would get caught with every girl out there in there rooms and not a darn thing would happen to them. I met Rodney Jenkins a while ago while he was at NAU and he told me crazy stories of what goes on there, how he was treated like a god until it got out that he was breaking rules. No one cared until the press got a hold of it. That is just how it goes. You can't tell me the normal every day student can get away with that stuff. My dad went there and played baseball for a year, and he said the same thing, players would have a dip in there mouth while at practices. He couldn't stand it and transfered to the good school :lol:
Click to expand...

You say silly things.


----------



## bowhunter3

thank you tree  In all honesty like I said I really like Bronco and have a much harder time hating the Y. I think he is trying, it is just very hard trying to compete in the recruiting game if they don't turn the other way sometimes. They just don't want to admit it, and are hypocrites about it, that is my problem. Its pretty hard to recruit a inner city kid, or a non morman and make them conform to your rules, I understand that just don't try and hide it, just say you are trying to convert them :wink:


----------



## bowhunter3

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Wow! I missed a lot. I was busy the last 2 hours trying to explain to a U student how to get the top off of a bottle of orange juice. Whew, I sure am spent.


Thats funny I just spent the last hour trying to pry my pizza out of the hands of a byu cheerleader.

Also spent the last hour with the bishops daughter on campus at byu _(O)_....studing that is :mrgreen:


----------



## Treehugnhuntr

Were they the same person. Pizza can create flatulence and make for an embarrassing encounter.


----------



## Comrade Duck

bowhunter3 said:


> recruiting someone while on a mission is an example. Dudes on the basketball team told me while playing. Vranes used to tell me stories all the time how the athletic department would know of parties and drinking and drugs that were going on but would look the other way. They would get caught with every girl out there in there rooms and not a darn thing would happen to them. I met Rodney Jenkins a while ago while he was at NAU and he told me crazy stories of what goes on there, how he was treated like a god until it got out that he was breaking rules. No one cared until the press got a hold of it. That is just how it goes. You can't tell me the normal every day student can get away with that stuff. My dad went there and played baseball for a year, and he said the same thing, players would have a dip in there mouth while at practices. He couldn't stand it and transfered to the good school :lol:


That's it? That's your incriminating evidence? Really, that's all you have? To be honest, that's even more pathetic than I thought it was going to be.

The whole athletic department at BYU is all about winning and not about religion because 30 years ago your Dad said his teammates would chew or because you happened to run into Ronny Jenkins and he told you the real story, the real story coming from a guy who was kicked out of BYU for breaking rules.

Come on BH3, if you are going to condemn the whole athletic department at least bring something better to the discussion than _he said she said_ type stories that you have no way of backing up.

The players aren't perfect at the Y. Nobody has ever said they were. To label them all as hypocrites because some may break the rules is ridiculous. It would be no different than Tree labeling all Utes as potheads that live in their mother's basement. (Actually that is a bad example because their is some truth to what Tree says. You know what I mean though)

Shane


----------



## dunn_gary

I appreciate all the answers. I figured they might be wide and varied, as they are. 

As far as the Riley thing, there were rumors before he left that people were afraid he would come home and transfer to the Y. I think the biggest shock was, that BYU approached him while on his mission, not him approaching the Y. How that approach happened, who knows? The family has not made a major statement from what I've seen locally.

About the BYU double standard, I have one or two comments. The basketball photos that had been photo shopped to remove all the tatoos from the basketball players to make them look more...........whatever, wholesome? I think the hiding of things is what makes so many think that they are hypocrites. I did attend the Y in the late '70's to work on a Masters, and I was amazed at what I saw: students driving to school smoking, then parking the car, getting out the binaca, cologne, etc., to try and cover the smell. As Yoda says, "do, or not do"! If you profess to be LDS, then do it. Don't profess, and then live a different life behind closed doors as it were. Let your light so shine, etc.

We all make mistakes and have our struggles, but let's admit it, and not try to hide or cover it up, and then when it is discovered act like we are sooo surprised that such a thing could happen. Yes, kids will make bad choices. That's OK. We all do. Fine, then let's try to help them make better ones, not look the other way and pretend it doesn't or hasn't happened. For me, the jury is still out on Bronco.


----------



## Comrade Duck

dunn_gary said:


> I appreciate all the answers. I figured they might be wide and varied, as they are.
> 
> As far as the Riley thing, there were rumors before he left that people were afraid he would come home and transfer to the Y. I think the biggest shock was, that BYU approached him while on his mission, not him approaching the Y. How that approach happened, who knows? The family has not made a major statement from what I've seen locally.
> 
> About the BYU double standard, I have one or two comments. The basketball photos that had been photo shopped to remove all the tatoos from the basketball players to make them look more...........whatever, wholesome? I think the hiding of things is what makes so many think that they are hypocrites. I did attend the Y in the late '70's to work on a Masters, and I was amazed at what I saw: students driving to school smoking, then parking the car, getting out the binaca, cologne, etc., to try and cover the smell. As Yoda says, "do, or not do"! If you profess to be LDS, then do it. Don't profess, and then live a different life behind closed doors as it were. Let your light so shine, etc.
> 
> We all make mistakes and have our struggles, but let's admit it, and not try to hide or cover it up, and then when it is discovered act like we are sooo surprised that such a thing could happen. Yes, kids will make bad choices. That's OK. We all do. Fine, then let's try to help them make better ones, not look the other way and pretend it doesn't or hasn't happened. For me, the jury is still out on Bronco.


Valid point. The only problem I have with it is the broad brush that you guys paint with. To say the whole school or the whole athletic department is flawed because of the actions of a few is wrong to do.

I don't see the mistakes that BYU is making and then trying to hide from. I've seen a few athletes over the years get kicked out for not fulfilling their part of the bargain. That doesn't seem like the University is hiding to me. Maybe you could fill us in.

So some BYU students smoke. Who cares? Do you think that the majority of the students do the same thing? Is that behavior the exception or the norm? Do you think that type of behavior is only specific to BYU? Or is it behavior that is common amongst LDS kids, no matter what the school, who engage in activities contrary to the Churches beliefs?

I can tell you from first hand experience that plenty of LDS kids at both USU and the U of U live there lives differently on Sunday than they do on Friday and Saturday night. I saw it all the time while going to school at Utah State. I saw it at the U amongst friends I knew there as well. Unfortunately that behavior occurs in some of the youth of the church for one reason or another. It's sad but true.

I don't see the difference between that compared to a student at BYU doing the same thing. LDS is LDS no matter what colors you wear.

Shane


----------



## Huge29

BIGBEAN said:


> proutdoors wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You love this one BigBean;
> U of U Sports Ethics is defined by an on-side kick when the outcome of the game is a given, and then trying to defend it, and then try and say a last second basket is the equivalent. :?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that is pretty good. Almost as good as someone who attended Carbon High trying to speak intelligently about football (other than Jan Jorgensen of course). jk :lol:
Click to expand...

Now you have crossed the line, which eye do you want to have dotted, oh wait both already are -oOo- -oOo- -oOo- Why the reference??


----------



## dunn_gary

> I don't see the mistakes that BYU is making and then trying to hide from. I've seen a few athletes over the years get kicked out for not fulfilling their part of the bargain. That doesn't seem like the University is hiding to me. Maybe you could fill us in.


It seems, from my perspective, that only when issues come to light through the Press, or other means do they take action. Possibly you remember that Stew Morrill, USU's basketball coach, suspended a couple players, which probably cost him a road win, because they broke team rules. No one would have known about those rule breaks had Stew not done what he did. But then, most coaches, from my experience, don't have the class or fortitude that he has. Maintaining discipline and remaining the true teacher of what is truly important is what he is about. More than just about winning, which he does! And with class.



> So some BYU students smoke. Who cares? Do you think that the majority of the students do the same thing? Is that behavior the exception or the norm? Do you think that type of behavior is only specific to BYU? Or is it behavior that is common amongst LDS kids, no matter what the school, who engage in activities contrary to the Churches beliefs?
> 
> I can tell you from first hand experience that plenty of LDS kids at both USU and the U of U live there lives differently on Sunday than they do on Friday and Saturday night. I saw it all the time while going to school at Utah State. I saw it at the U amongst friends I knew there as well. Unfortunately that behavior occurs in some of the youth of the church for one reason or another. It's sad but true.


This I will not argue, nor deny. But my experience at USU was a bit different. They didn't seem to try and cover up what they were doing to the point of carrying binaca, mouthwash, etc in their vehicles like I saw at BYU.

They may try to please their parents, etc, by going to church on Sunday but living the "good life" the rest of the week. But didn't try to hid it from their professors, classmates, etc., unless it could have gotten back to their parents. It is sad, but true.



> I don't see the difference between that compared to a student at BYU doing the same thing. LDS is LDS no matter what colors you wear.


But aren't we talking about schools here, and not individuals? It's the whitewashing that the school sometimes does that makes it appear so hypocritical to others, not necessarily what the individual student does.


----------



## NHS

Huge29 said:


> BIGBEAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> proutdoors wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You love this one BigBean;
> U of U Sports Ethics is defined by an on-side kick when the outcome of the game is a given, and then trying to defend it, and then try and say a last second basket is the equivalent. :?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that is pretty good. Almost as good as someone who attended Carbon High trying to speak intelligently about football (other than Jan Jorgensen of course). jk :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you have crossed the line, which eye do you want to have dotted, oh wait both already are -oOo- -oOo- -oOo- Why the reference??
Click to expand...

That would be directed at me. Bigbean, a ECV alum, likes to poke fun of CHS alum. O*--


----------



## Kevin D

Here is the lesson I would take away from this incident if I were a coach; that just because one of your athletes goes on a mission, you can't let up on the recruitment process. Forget about respecting the sancity of a LDS mission, you've got to maintain positive contact with the kid because there are schools such as BYU that have no qualms about trying to lure them away. Sports trancends religion.


----------



## Riverrat77

GaryFish said:


> *Are we all going nuts with the rivers blown out, no hunting season open, and spring fever has the best of us*?


Yes... its definitely making some of us (read - me) short tempered. Its a crappy situation in Happy Valley, but it'll be forgotten shortly I'm sure.


----------



## Comrade Duck

dunn_gary said:


> It seems, from my perspective, that only when issues come to light through the Press, or other means do they take action.


I've heard that a few times so far in this thread. Maybe you can cite some examples of players at the Y who would have went unpunished had the press not got a hold of the story.

Maybe it has more to do with the fact that when a BYU player gets punished it makes the press where as at USU, other than basketball, no one really cares. It doesn't make the news.



dunn_gary said:


> This I will not argue, nor deny. But my experience at USU was a bit different. They didn't seem to try and cover up what they were doing to the point of carrying binaca, mouthwash, etc in their vehicles like I saw at BYU.
> 
> They may try to please their parents, etc, by going to church on Sunday but living the "good life" the rest of the week. But didn't try to hid it from their professors, classmates, etc., unless it could have gotten back to their parents. It is sad, but true.


No, they might not hide it as much (some still do) but that's only because they don't face the same consequences from the University that the BYU students do. Is that BYU's fault? Again, should the whole university be judged for the actions of a few?

Instead of hiding there actions at USU (again, some still do) they just show up on Sunday and act like their behavior at the party the night before didn't happen, or either that it didn't matter. Is the hypocrisy really that much different?



dunn_gary said:


> But aren't we talking about schools here, and not individuals? It's the whitewashing that the school sometimes does that makes it appear so hypocritical to others, not necessarily what the individual student does.


I don't know, you tell me. So far the majority of the examples that you guys have thrown out have been about somebody chewing, or some dude using banaca to hide a smell before class, or an athlete kicked out of school for his honor code violations (Ronny), or and individual with a girl in his room, or somebody partying.

Sound like you guys are talking about *individuals* to me unless you're telling us the whole University, or even more specifically the whole athletic department is guilty of those infractions.

Otherwise all you got is some photoshopped pictures and an athlete on a mission that was possibly contacted first by the BYU coaching staff rather than him contacting them first. (the verdict is still out on that one) Not really bulletin board material there guys.

Again, I would love to see you or BH3 back the statement up where you can show that BYU would have let someone get away with something had the press not got ahold of the story. We'll see if you have something better than I know this dude, who knows a dude, who has a cousin whose friend plays on the football team at BYU that says.....

Prove me wrong. I'll be the first to admit it when you do.

Shane


----------



## Comrade Duck

Two more articles in the paper. New kid, same story. It's pretty apparent who contacted who on this one.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700230281,00.html

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_9424645

Shane


----------



## Nibble Nuts

Excellent points Comrade Duck. I couldn't agree with you more.


----------



## Riverrat77

I'm aware of the Ronny Jenkins stuff also... gal I worked with at the La Quinta in Orem partied with him and the Y football players pretty frequently. She actually wound up having twins from one of the "football buddies". Good stuff BH3. I also worked out with an offensive lineman from the Y when Golds was at the bottom of the state street hill... he had some interesting stories...great guy but the press would have had a field day with some of his accounts. Oh... and he was a friggin giant, but sure knew his weights and it was cool of him to help out a fellow gym rat. :lol: Sure, they party it up but the ones I've run into seem to be very cool, including that little guy Reno Mahe... played a bunch of b-ball with him at Golds too, as well as some of the other folks that were members of the Y crowd. The players aren't the hypocrites... they're good folks for the most part I'd imagine. The shadiness and ideological discrepancy is at the administrative level more than anything I think... seems thats the case all over when it comes to collegiate athletics and the Y isn't the only place where stuff gets swept under the rug until the situation goes public.


----------



## UintaMan

dunn_gary said:


> I don't know how many of you know, or even care about this. But, just wondering what the outside of Cache Valley take is on BYU visiting with High School All American Riley Nelson while he is little more than half finished with his LDS Mission to Spain. The visit was to get him to commit to play at BYU after he returns home. He previously commited to Utah State, and played his freshman year there. BYU showed no interest in him just out of high school, but now, go to Spain, get his mission president to allow the visit and grant time to "ponder the decision". Mind you, I don't fault Riley in this so much. Given USU's current program, why would anyone want to play there? But, can you imagine his mission president allowing coaches from the U or USU to do the same? Never would happen.
> 
> My personal view, is that it's one of the tackiest things I've seen done in College Sports, and shows how classless BYU can really be.


Do you know this to be fact or are you just going on a bunch of rumors? BYU visiting with Riley Nelson while he is on his mission, I would like to know where you are getting your information? Or if your just talking out of your ying yang!


----------



## UintaMan

jahan said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make him lose a year of eligibility would make a special rule just for Mormon missionaries. I oppose putting Mormon kids to a different set of rules than other kids.
> 
> 
> 
> How? :? If Brian Johnson decided he is going to transfer to USU to fill in theie void (wishful thinking), he would lose a year of eligibility. I see it as a special rule for missionaries as it is now and that is not fair. BTW, I am not a BYU hater, I like them and I think they have a good program with good people. I was just pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.
Click to expand...

Could have fooled me, you sound like the typical BYU mormon hater to me. :wink: I am a BYU sports fan, I could care less about what religion the school may be affiliated with, I just grew up watching and have been a life long fan. If I had to pick a school out excluding all sports I would take the U of U or Utah State over BYU because of a lot of the crap that goes on there that I personally don't agree with. However, this is about sports and what goes on all over the country. This just makes it easy for people to bash a school and its people based off of what religion they are affiliated with and somehow try to tie the two together! :roll:


----------



## UintaMan

jahan said:


> Comrade Duck said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No trips were made to spain to recruit Riley. Those of you who believed that and then passed judgement because of it are too easily persuaded. How gullible do you have to be to buy off on that one?*
> 
> Bronco never made any recruiting trips to Logan to talk with the high school coach. It was all done through an assistant (Higgens) and the coach himself. I really don't believe the offense was as egregious as you haters are making it out to be. It sounds like, per Riley's Dad, that Riley's name was brought up in casual conversation between the two coaches and that after some talking BYU let him know that they would have some interest. Coach Higgens is assigned cache valley as his recruiting area. He wasn't just up their on special assignment to get Riley.
> 
> I realize that while you are on your mission you are suppose to be focussed on the work. Everyone though that has plans to go to school upon returning takes the time somewhere within the mission to get things arranged. It happens. There is life after the mission. While I was on my mission I took the time to arrange my schooling at USU. Was it a distraction? A little, but it was necessary. To insinuate that the President wouldn't have let him arrange things with the U of U had he chosen to go there is absurd.
> 
> I think Bronco is a good guy and has done a lot of good things at BYU. Is he perfect? No. Does he make mistakes? You bet. The fact that the worst thing you can get him on is his "hypocrisy" for allowing a kid to be recruited on his mission speaks volumes about the type of coach that he is.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew the ultimate BYU homer would show up. :wink:  Just playing with ya. Not one person has said they went to Spain and quite frankly I have no idea where some of you guys are pulling that out of. You sure can spin it though. :lol: Also I never said Bronco was a bad guy, in fact, he seems like a good guy, but he is still a hypocrite. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Tell me the name of a coach who isn't a hypocrite. I would rather have Bronco the hypocrite than Brent Guy or some joke of a coach with the last name of Wittingham :mrgreen:


----------



## UintaMan

Comrade Duck said:


> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything goes through the head coach, he knew about it and told him to go, are you that foolish to not believe that? The hypocrisy is not just with them recruiting a missionary but how they run the athletic department, they are focused more on winning than following there own rules and guidlines. That is what bugs me and that is hypocrisy. They hold themselves to a higher standard and so does there fans, if they are going to preach something they better follow through with it
> 
> 
> 
> Coach Higgens was going to be there recruiting whether Riley was an option or not. That's his area and there are some recruits in the valley the Y has there eyes on. His Dad said that Riley's name was brought up in "casual" conversation. I don't think Riley was as big a target as some might think he was. I think Higgens saw the opportunity to express some interest and took it, and from there the relationship evolved.
> 
> What do I know though? In fact, what does anyone know? At this point we are all speculating. Until we hear from the two coaches involved in the initial contact we won't know who started what.
> 
> So far you have made a lot of accusations in general terms. Give some specifics. You seem to know so much about the BYU athletic department. Lets hear what you got.
> 
> Shane
Click to expand...

He don't know crap, he and Jahan are just talking out of their loose pie holes.


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## UintaMan

dunn_gary said:


> I appreciate all the answers. I figured they might be wide and varied, as they are.
> 
> As far as the Riley thing, there were rumors before he left that people were afraid he would come home and transfer to the Y. I think the biggest shock was, that BYU approached him while on his mission, not him approaching the Y. How that approach happened, who knows? The family has not made a major statement from what I've seen locally.
> 
> About the BYU double standard, I have one or two comments. The basketball photos that had been photo shopped to remove all the tatoos from the basketball players to make them look more...........whatever, wholesome? I think the hiding of things is what makes so many think that they are hypocrites. I did attend the Y in the late '70's to work on a Masters, and I was amazed at what I saw: students driving to school smoking, then parking the car, getting out the binaca, cologne, etc., to try and cover the smell. As Yoda says, "do, or not do"! If you profess to be LDS, then do it. Don't profess, and then live a different life behind closed doors as it were. Let your light so shine, etc.
> 
> We all make mistakes and have our struggles, but let's admit it, and not try to hide or cover it up, and then when it is discovered act like we are sooo surprised that such a thing could happen. Yes, kids will make bad choices. That's OK. We all do. Fine, then let's try to help them make better ones, not look the other way and pretend it doesn't or hasn't happened. For me, the jury is still out on Bronco.


We all know about what kind of horrible person gets a tattoo, I don't blame them for trying to photo shop Hafa's tattoo's. :roll:


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## UintaMan

dunn_gary said:


> I don't see the mistakes that BYU is making and then trying to hide from. I've seen a few athletes over the years get kicked out for not fulfilling their part of the bargain. That doesn't seem like the University is hiding to me. Maybe you could fill us in.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems, from my perspective, that only when issues come to light through the Press, or other means do they take action. Possibly you remember that Stew Morrill, USU's basketball coach, suspended a couple players, which probably cost him a road win, because they broke team rules. No one would have known about those rule breaks had Stew not done what he did. But then, most coaches, from my experience, don't have the class or fortitude that he has. Maintaining discipline and remaining the true teacher of what is truly important is what he is about. More than just about winning, which he does! And with class.
> 
> [quote:9mgctto5]So some BYU students smoke. Who cares? Do you think that the majority of the students do the same thing? Is that behavior the exception or the norm? Do you think that type of behavior is only specific to BYU? Or is it behavior that is common amongst LDS kids, no matter what the school, who engage in activities contrary to the Churches beliefs?
> 
> I can tell you from first hand experience that plenty of LDS kids at both USU and the U of U live there lives differently on Sunday than they do on Friday and Saturday night. I saw it all the time while going to school at Utah State. I saw it at the U amongst friends I knew there as well. Unfortunately that behavior occurs in some of the youth of the church for one reason or another. It's sad but true.
Click to expand...

This I will not argue, nor deny. But my experience at USU was a bit different. They didn't seem to try and cover up what they were doing to the point of carrying binaca, mouthwash, etc in their vehicles like I saw at BYU.

They may try to please their parents, etc, by going to church on Sunday but living the "good life" the rest of the week. But didn't try to hid it from their professors, classmates, etc., unless it could have gotten back to their parents. It is sad, but true.



> I don't see the difference between that compared to a student at BYU doing the same thing. LDS is LDS no matter what colors you wear.


But aren't we talking about schools here, and not individuals? It's the whitewashing that the school sometimes does that makes it appear so hypocritical to others, not necessarily what the individual student does.[/quote:9mgctto5]

Who cares, get over it, don't you have anything else worth while to worry about in life?


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## UintaMan

Comrade Duck said:


> [quote="dunn_gary":10dy76z9]
> It seems, from my perspective, that only when issues come to light through the Press, or other means do they take action.


I've heard that a few times so far in this thread. Maybe you can cite some examples of players at the Y who would have went unpunished had the press not got a hold of the story.

Maybe it has more to do with the fact that when a BYU player gets punished it makes the press where as at USU, other than basketball, no one really cares. It doesn't make the news.



dunn_gary said:


> This I will not argue, nor deny. But my experience at USU was a bit different. They didn't seem to try and cover up what they were doing to the point of carrying binaca, mouthwash, etc in their vehicles like I saw at BYU.
> 
> They may try to please their parents, etc, by going to church on Sunday but living the "good life" the rest of the week. But didn't try to hid it from their professors, classmates, etc., unless it could have gotten back to their parents. It is sad, but true.


No, they might not hide it as much (some still do) but that's only because they don't face the same consequences from the University that the BYU students do. Is that BYU's fault? Again, should the whole university be judged for the actions of a few?

Instead of hiding there actions at USU (again, some still do) they just show up on Sunday and act like their behavior at the party the night before didn't happen, or either that it didn't matter. Is the hypocrisy really that much different?



dunn_gary said:


> But aren't we talking about schools here, and not individuals? It's the whitewashing that the school sometimes does that makes it appear so hypocritical to others, not necessarily what the individual student does.


I don't know, you tell me. So far the majority of the examples that you guys have thrown out have been about somebody chewing, or some dude using banaca to hide a smell before class, or an athlete kicked out of school for his honor code violations (Ronny), or and individual with a girl in his room, or somebody partying.

Sound like you guys are talking about *individuals* to me unless you're telling us the whole University, or even more specifically the whole athletic department is guilty of those infractions.

Otherwise all you got is some photoshopped pictures and an athlete on a mission that was possibly contacted first by the BYU coaching staff rather than him contacting them first. (the verdict is still out on that one) Not really bulletin board material there guys.

Again, I would love to see you or BH3 back the statement up where you can show that BYU would have let someone get away with something had the press not got ahold of the story. We'll see if you have something better than I know this dude, who knows a dude, who has a cousin whose friend plays on the football team at BYU that says.....

Prove me wrong. I'll be the first to admit it when you do.

Shane[/quote:10dy76z9]

We can't all have a rapist being the heart and soul of our basketball team either! :shock:


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## schaueelab

football is football just enjoy it..... and dont be mad the cougs kick a little ass from time to time


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## OKEE

Kevin D said:


> Here is the lesson I would take away from this incident if I were a coach; that just because one of your athletes goes on a mission, you can't let up on the recruitment process. Forget about respecting the sancity of a LDS mission, you've got to maintain positive contact with the kid because there are schools such as BYU that have no qualms about trying to lure them away. Sports trancends religion.


I would have no qualms what so ever if my boy was contacted by BYU or any other school in utah. Thats what we are hopen for. My boy was recruited out of state,he'll play this fall then leave on a mission. I would love to have him closer no matter what color he is wearing .It's FOOTBALL ,I love the Game,no matter the uniform color.


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## BIGBEAN

I think one thing that has been left out is, that not all of these kids that you are calling hypocritical are LDS. They come from backgrounds where smoking and drinking are the norm. All they need is a ecclesiastical endorsement and be in good standing in their church. Now when they get here they have to abide by the honor code which prohibits smoking drinking and fooling around if you know what I mean. I guess the thing that rubs me the wrong way is that we preach repentance and forgiveness yet when these kids mess up we are ready to alter their life forever for a mistake. I know that some mistakes just can't be overlooked but honor code violations are very minor compared to what happens @ other schools.


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## Guest

At a recent charity event Bronco Mendenhall was asked about the recent controversy involving Riley Nelson:

"There's been debate raging the last few weeks about recruiting and missionaries. To set everyone straight, what is the rule you follow as far as how you handle them?"

Here's Mendenhall's response:

"We, in every possible chance, will not recruit or interfere with anybody out on their mission. There have been three very unique cases with permission and requests by parents and/or mission presidents that have asked us to be involved to help a young man make a decision earlier and go on about his business. It will take something like that for us ever to consider a young man while he's out there. There have been three to this point in four years, and there could be others, but it will take those criteria to make it happen."

I don't blame Aggie fans for being hurt by this whole thing. I know I was hurt when Ben Olsen left to play for UCLA (who recruited him heavily while he was serving his mission). But I didn't fault him for making a decision that he thought would be best for him and his future, and I think this is what Nelson has done. Time will tell if it was the right decision, as it did for Olsen.

But stop crying "foul" and "sin" where none was committed. Bronco is not perfect, and if there is one thing I find fault in him it is that he is terrible at addressing the media. He has made several bone-headed statements to the press that have come back to bite him. But he is without a doubt the right man for the job, and is doing a phenomenal job of building a program around the values and standards of BYU and the LDS church. 

It always amuses me when I see BYU / LDS haters point their fingers crying "hypocrite!" in one breath, and then call them "judgmental" and "holier than thou" in the next. It is not an easy thing to live up to high standards, and people who do try will often fail, but at least they try! You don't have to like BYU, but let go of your hate. It is not good for you.


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## UintaMan

WeakenedWarrior said:


> At a recent charity event Bronco Mendenhall was asked about the recent controversy involving Riley Nelson:
> 
> "There's been debate raging the last few weeks about recruiting and missionaries. To set everyone straight, what is the rule you follow as far as how you handle them?"
> 
> Here's Mendenhall's response:
> 
> "We, in every possible chance, will not recruit or interfere with anybody out on their mission. There have been three very unique cases with permission and requests by parents and/or mission presidents that have asked us to be involved to help a young man make a decision earlier and go on about his business. It will take something like that for us ever to consider a young man while he's out there. There have been three to this point in four years, and there could be others, but it will take those criteria to make it happen."
> 
> I don't blame Aggie fans for being hurt by this whole thing. I know I was hurt when Ben Olsen left to play for UCLA (who recruited him heavily while he was serving his mission). But I didn't fault him for making a decision that he thought would be best for him and his future, and I think this is what Nelson has done. Time will tell if it was the right decision, as it did for Olsen.
> 
> But stop crying "foul" and "sin" where none was committed. Bronco is not perfect, and if there is one thing I find fault in him it is that he is terrible at addressing the media. He has made several bone-headed statements to the press that have come back to bite him. But he is without a doubt the right man for the job, and is doing a phenomenal job of building a program around the values and standards of BYU and the LDS church.
> 
> It always amuses me when I see BYU / LDS haters point their fingers crying "hypocrite!" in one breath, and then call them "judgmental" and "holier than thou" in the next. It is not an easy thing to live up to high standards, and people who do try will often fail, but at least they try! You don't have to like BYU, but let go of your hate. It is not good for you.


I must say you are the man, very well said!


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## dunn_gary

Thanks to all of you for your responses. I didn't realize there would end up being this much controversy though! The only information I had to go on was what was either stated in the local newspaper or told to me during conversation. I just find the whole thing rather interesting, as I know Riley. He was one of my students a few years ago, and I taught his younger brother this past year. I wish the kid all the best and hope that his decision is the correct one for him.

Just so you all know, there were rumors of him possibly leaving USU for BYU even before he left on his mission, so it was really no surprise when it happened. Many of us thought that he would be better off at the Y, regardless of what we feel about that school. I mean really. As things stand right now, who in their right mind would want to play for USU, unless there are no other legitimate offers? I did, along with many others years ago, but that was back in the 69-70 school year, when the program was very respectable. But now, sheeesh.

I have to admit now though, that I did throw a few bones out there to keep the post alive. This has been my longest running! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Huge29

OKEE said:


> Kevin D said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the lesson I would take away from this incident if I were a coach; that just because one of your athletes goes on a mission, you can't let up on the recruitment process. Forget about respecting the sancity of a LDS mission, you've got to maintain positive contact with the kid because there are schools such as BYU that have no qualms about trying to lure them away. Sports trancends religion.
> 
> 
> 
> I would have no qualms what so ever if my boy was contacted by BYU or any other school in utah. Thats what we are hopen for. My boy was recruited out of state,he'll play this fall then leave on a mission. I would love to have him closer no matter what color he is wearing .It's FOOTBALL ,I love the Game,no matter the uniform color.
Click to expand...

Congrats to you and your boy! Where did he go to HS and which college is he attending now?


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## OKEE

THANKS Fremont high He will attend NMMI this fall in Newmexico (full scholarship)


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