# camps on public land



## eyecrazy

I have been doing alot of scouting the last couple of weeks. I was out wednesday and seen 6 camps with nobody in them I 
assume that they are in for the hunt i understand a week early put three weeks early what do you all think. I think that the humman smell is what drives the game off or into cover so why put it in the area way before you have to


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## tuffluckdriller

Anywhere close to roads and the game will be driven before the hunt. Utards will "scout" from their 4wheelers and trucks for a couple days right before the hunt. Gee, I wonder what clues the animals in that the hunt's about to start?


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## Mtn. Runner

Were they backpack camps? Or trailer type camps?


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## Bears Butt

I see a lot of camps left up in the Blacksmith fork canyon that remain there all summer long. Most of the time un-occupied. I know there is supposed to be a limit on the number of days a camp can be in the same place, but as with most other things, the policing force has better things to do than to try and run down the owner and have them move it, or to remove it and impound the units.

Up on the top of Dip Hollow a couple of years back, I came across a tent trailer that was being stored there. It was obvious it had not been used for a few years as it was covered with fallen tree branches and had a flat tire.

Also, some peoples schedules don't allow them enough time to put their camp on the spot they wish to camp in and feel they have to pull their trailers in ahead of time. This is probably what you have encountered.


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## blazingsaddle

You ought to see the trailers left behind up Payson Canyon. Its a freakin joke. On any given weekend, it seems as if 50% of the camps are unoccupied. It starts a week or so before the 4th of July. 
I have called the forest service more than once, and they tell me they will send their officer around the loop when hes is scheduled to patrol that area. Truthfully, I do not think they do anything about it. Some of the trailers left also have expired plates.
Welcome to Utah!


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## nickpan

blazingsaddle said:


> You ought to see the trailers left behind up Payson Canyon. Its a freakin joke. On any given weekend, it seems as if 50% of the camps are unoccupied. It starts a week or so before the 4th of July.
> I have called the forest service more than once, and they tell me they will send their officer around the loop when hes is scheduled to patrol that area. Truthfully, I do not think they do anything about it. Some of the trailers left also have expired plates.
> Welcome to Utah!


Been checked a few years. We spend nearly the whole hunt up on the mountain, but you can bet when that 16th day comes around th FS is there sayin its our last day. He goes around to all the camps takes down license #'s and descriptions at the date.


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## Critter

I just returned from a scouting trip in southern Utah and you would not believe the number of trailers left on BLM ground and they look like they have been there for the whole summer. They are treating the camping areas like private property. They have built fire pits out of cinder blocks and have a couple cords of wood cut and stacked. It is so bad that there isn't a flat spot left for any one else that wants go go out and camp for a week or weekend. It is even funny in that you can go to Google Earth and put in any date that you want to look at the site and the same tailers are sitting there. 

Now I try and get along with just about everyone but this last trip has done it with me. Monday a call will be made to the district BLM office and a complaint will be made by me, and if that doesn't work I'll go up the ladder. Now if they want to pull there trailers out on Sunday or Monday and beat me back there for the next weekent then it doesn't bother me but to put up perminat camps on public land is going too far.


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## eyecrazy

these are tents and trailers pack. it in and pack it out I think that it is crap that they think this is right I have a spot that I 
camp during the hunt and sure I could take my camp in now but that would make it so nobody could use it or get my stuff stolen so I will be takeing my camp in one or two days before the hunt if I get my spot great if I don't then I guess I will find another. 
It's public land and we all should be able to use it


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## Old Fudd

Was down on the Mantis 2 yrs ago.scouting for the archery hunt in late july.Went from Sterling over the top to Spring City Canyon. every place that was aplace was full. Trailers had every flat spot taken Had a heck of a time finding a place to put up the Springbar. Reported the situation to Forest Service. Was told the locals run there trailers up on the mountain dig em in when the snow is gone and don't bring em down until the end of the rifle elk hunt!.Stinking SQUATTERS! Was down on the Phavant 2 weeks ago seen 4 huge trailers 3 big tents and one guy had left a beat up old utility trailer empty in a flat spot. . Called the forest service. ask.. I thought 16 days was max answer, we don't have the funding to do the job.or the man power.So if archers are going to leave for the hunt on the 20th good luck..,


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## bowhunter3

It doesn't bother me, camps are left all the time out here, I have left mine for a couple weeks at a time, then move them else where, but I could care less if someone keeps there trailer longer than 16 days...Just go elsewhere, there is plenty of spaces on the hill


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## jahan

I will be honest it pisses me off something fierce. I always see the same piece of **** trailers that save spots, not cool and against the rules. I have never left a camper for more than a day out of respect for others. I left a tent once for about 36 hours and had a note when I got back with a warning saying you can't leave anything unattended for more than 24 hours. I thought to my self, I was in a place where no campers could get and there are at any given time up to 10 campers reserving spots and they are going to warn me. I deserved the warning, but so does everyone else.


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## bullsnot

Frankly I think it's lame to leave your camp set up when you aren't there unless you leave it for a day or two to return home to take care of something between excursions.

Saving your place reminds of junior high when a freind would take your backpack and hold it in the lunch line to save your place. Or elementary school when we would line up our backpacks at the bus stop in a line to save our places.


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## bowhunter3

I dont do it to save a spot, I actually use my trailer almost every weekend, if it is just up there not being used I guess I could see why it bothered you but **** there is still a lot of places like I said go else where...


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## jahan

bowhunter3 said:


> I dont do it to save a spot, I actually use my trailer almost every weekend, if it is just up there not being used I guess I could see why it bothered you but **** there is still a lot of places like I said go else where...


Not where I am, it literally gets to the point where there are no spots left because so many people "reserve" their spot for the week. The sad part is, most of the time when I see these trailers "reserving" spots they are very large spots that many people could camp, but some trailer is taking up the whole spot. I am not saying that is you, I am saying there are some people who do that.


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## bowhunter3

I know that you are not saying its me, i was just adding my two cents...I could see how that would be frustrating. There is a lot of camp spots up where I go that people just don't know exist and a lot of land to go to.


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## bullsnot

bowhunter3 said:


> I dont do it to save a spot, I actually use my trailer almost every weekend, if it is just up there not being used I guess I could see why it bothered you but **** there is still a lot of places like I said go else where...


It's one of those things that if one or two people do it, no big deal. But if everyone does it then it's a big problem. So if everyone can't do it then why should a few? If there are so many places then why leave it there? Why can't you take a turn and go somewhere else?


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## dkhntrdstn

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: o-|| o-|| o-||


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## bowhunter3

bullsnot said:


> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont do it to save a spot, I actually use my trailer almost every weekend, if it is just up there not being used I guess I could see why it bothered you but **** there is still a lot of places like I said go else where...
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of those things that if one or two people do it, no big deal. But if everyone does it then it's a big problem. So if everyone can't do it then why should a few? If there are so many places then why leave it there? Why can't you take a turn and go somewhere else?
Click to expand...

Because I use it, if I didn't i wouldn't bring it up there... You are allowed to have it up for 16 days, after that, I move it to another spot its easier and cheaper to leave it up instead of bringing it down everytime. I live about 20 minutes away from any camp spot I want. So I am up on the mountain all the time, even when I am not camping I take my kids up and eat dinner, enjoy the wildlife and scenery all the time and use the trailer. Its one of the percs to where i live in the uintah basin that I have such easy access to the hills and we take every opportunity that we can...


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## jahan

bowhunter3 said:


> bullsnot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont do it to save a spot, I actually use my trailer almost every weekend, if it is just up there not being used I guess I could see why it bothered you but **** there is still a lot of places like I said go else where...
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of those things that if one or two people do it, no big deal. But if everyone does it then it's a big problem. So if everyone can't do it then why should a few? If there are so many places then why leave it there? Why can't you take a turn and go somewhere else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because I use it, if I didn't i wouldn't bring it up there... You are allowed to have it up for 16 days, after that, I move it to another spot its easier and cheaper to leave it up instead of bringing it down everytime. I live about 20 minutes away from any camp spot I want. So I am up on the mountain all the time, even when I am not camping I take my kids up and eat dinner, enjoy the wildlife and scenery all the time and use the trailer. Its one of the percs to where i live in the uintah basin that I have such easy access to the hills and we take every opportunity that we can...
Click to expand...

That sounds like a blast and good job on getting the kiddo's involved in the outdoors. Like I said this is not directed at you, but I come over 2 hours to get to my old stomping grounds to camp and it is mighty frustrating when you get there and many camps are taken by old piece of crap trailers that you see every year. Some of these trailers are not even used, they just use it to reserve the spot then they show up on Friday with their fifth wheels and other campers. On the 24th of July we went up on a Tuesday and there were several camps with campers that were not used until the weekend, some great spots also. Oh well, we just find any open spot. We have joked around about just showing up and placing all of our setup around the camper that was left behind. When they show up just be like, we were wondering who our neighbor was going to be. If they were cool they would just laugh it off and have a few drinks and stay around or they could get pissed and take their camper, I think it would be funny. Hey it could be a great way to make some new friends. :lol:


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## bullsnot

bowhunter3 said:


> bullsnot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont do it to save a spot, I actually use my trailer almost every weekend, if it is just up there not being used I guess I could see why it bothered you but **** there is still a lot of places like I said go else where...
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of those things that if one or two people do it, no big deal. But if everyone does it then it's a big problem. So if everyone can't do it then why should a few? If there are so many places then why leave it there? Why can't you take a turn and go somewhere else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because I use it, if I didn't i wouldn't bring it up there... You are allowed to have it up for 16 days, after that, I move it to another spot its easier and cheaper to leave it up instead of bringing it down everytime. I live about 20 minutes away from any camp spot I want. So I am up on the mountain all the time, even when I am not camping I take my kids up and eat dinner, enjoy the wildlife and scenery all the time and use the trailer. Its one of the percs to where i live in the uintah basin that I have such easy access to the hills and we take every opportunity that we can...
Click to expand...

Makes sense. Wish we all could be so lucky.

My comments are more for the guy that took a LARGE camping spot and reserved it for a week before he arrived with a tent on last years muzzleloader hunt. I had plenty of places to go but it was the premium spot and I was tempted to run over it with my truck. I would've set up camp right next to it but chose to avoid the confrontation, wasn't worth it.


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## dkhntrdstn

bullsnot said:


> My comments are more for the guy that took a LARGE camping spot and reserved it for a week before he arrived with a tent


I go up and put a tent up on big flat camping spots every year for the deer hunt and for the first camping trip of the year. The reason people take big camping spots is because they are going to have a big group with trailers or they like the big open area.I don't see a thing wrong with leaving a trailer up there a couple weeks before the hunt. If I had a trailer it would be up there from July 4 tell the end of the bow hunt. I would just move it enough every 16 day like you are post to.Plus you guys don't know if they are up there every weekend camping and scouting any was. they might not show up on the weekend you are there. tough **** you don't Owen the dam mountains.O yea my buddy already took his trailer up Sunday and I'm going up Sunday to put a couple tents up are self.


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## Critter

My problem come from campers that treat the BLM or forest service land as thier personal property. I just got back this weekend from a scouting trip to southern Utah and in one area there was no place to camp unless you put your tent up or pulled your camper into a spot that the "weekenders" had alredy set up camp in. One of those camps had a 10' diameter fire ring built with cynder blocks with a metal cap on top of it. Now they are the ones that need to be cited and they were on BLM land. Another problem that I saw was that while they may of been there for the weekend where were the people like myself and others going to camp during the week? I did call the Cedar City BLM office and spoke to their enforcement supervisor and they did say that the'll check it out. But I'll find out when I head back over there in a week or so.


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## jahan

dkhntrdstn said:


> bullsnot said:
> 
> 
> 
> My comments are more for the guy that took a LARGE camping spot and reserved it for a week before he arrived with a tent
> 
> 
> 
> I go up and put a tent up on big flat camping spots every year for the deer hunt and for the first camping trip of the year. The reason people take big camping spots is because they are going to have a big group with trailers or they like the big open area.I don't see a thing wrong with leaving a trailer up there a couple weeks before the hunt. If I had a trailer it would be up there from July 4 tell the end of the bow hunt. I would just move it enough every 16 day like you are post to.Plus you guys don't know if they are up there every weekend camping and scouting any was. they might not show up on the weekend you are there. tough **** you don't Owen the dam mountains.O yea my buddy already took his trailer up Sunday and I'm going up Sunday to put a couple tents up are self.
Click to expand...

Reread your post and hopefully you will find as much irony in your post as I did. :roll: :lol: My opinion is we all own the mountain, so reserving premier spots that are good with any kind of a trailer or tent is chicken **** at best. Also rules are rules, and it pisses me off when some think they are above the rules when there are people like me that follow them and get the shaft. Dustin you are missing the point, I know exactly why people reserve spots and that is why it pisses me off. I know it is a great spot, that is why I want it also. Now I have no problem with someone leaving a trailer for a day or two while they go back to work or take care of some business, but for the whole..................................  :mrgreen: :lol:


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## dkhntrdstn

jahan said:


> but for the whole ...............................................................  :mrgreen: :lol:[/quote
> 
> I agree for the hole summer is BS.I will agree with you on that. But Im not missing the :mrgreen: point.


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## bullsnot

dkhntrdstn said:


> The reason people take big camping spots is because they are going to have a big group with trailers or they like the big open area.


Obviously. I had a big group too and for 8 days we watched one lonely little tent occupy the space while nobody was there while we cramped ourselves into a smaller spot.



dkhntrdstn said:


> I don't see a thing wrong with leaving a trailer up there a couple weeks before the hunt.


I do. There is either a 14 or 16 day camping limit depending on the area. Can't leave it there for 2 weeks then your hunt and not go over.



dkhntrdstn said:


> you don't Owen the dam mountains.


Actually we all do and one guy doesn't have the right to homestead himself a spot. If you are there using it cool.

Let's take this a step further. What if we all took our RV's (or tents) and just parked them in a spot all summer long. There are enough RV's in Utah (we know from the hunts) that we can easily fill up just about all them. We'll fill up the forests, premiere lake spots, and heck even the sand dunes. Now imagine you want to go down to Lake Powell or different hunting grounds than you traditionally hunt but the locals have all the spots filled with their RV's. Sorry no spot for you. You gotta go to hotel or camp many many miles from where you want to be.

The only reason you get away with what you do is because I don't do what you do and therefore the problem isn't big enough to be addressed....yet. I guarantee you if everyone did that it would be a major problem and going into the outdoors would just be an RV city with no vacancy.


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## bullsnot

dkhntrdstn said:


> I agree for the hole summer is BS.I will agree with you on that.


Ok so where is the line? At what point do we say it's too long? 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? I read where you said you see nothing wrong with a couple of weeks BEFORE your hunt which will take you over the legal limit so it's not the law in your eyes that has anything to do with it. So what majic formula do you have that says 14+ days is cool but 90 days isn't?


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## dkhntrdstn

it a 16 day limit any where you go. So as long as you move it a inch or a foot you got another 16 day limit to go. :mrgreen: Yes we all Owen the mountains. If I go to a place and there nor where for me to camp. I guess I park my truck and take my atv's and load them up and take a atv trail and go camp back in there. so there all was place to camp. :mrgreen:


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## jahan

bullsnot said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree for the hole summer is BS.I will agree with you on that.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so where is the line? At what point do we say it's too long? 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? I read where you said you see nothing wrong with a couple of weeks BEFORE your hunt which will take you over the legal limit so it's not the law in your eyes that has anything to do with it. So what majic formula do you have that says 14+ days is cool but 90 days isn't?
Click to expand...

I will add to this great post, you can camp in a spot for 14 or 16 days, it says "camp", not leave my **** in a spot for 16 days. I believe that actual rule is 24 hours is the maximum a camp can be unattended.


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## jahan

dkhntrdstn said:


> it a 16 day limit any where you go. So as long as you move it a inch or a foot you got another 16 day limit to go. :mrgreen: Incorrect, please try again. :lol:  Yes we all OwenI love Owen Wilson, he is a funny sumbiatch the mountains. If I go to a place and there nor where for me to camp. I guess I park my truck and take my atv's and load them up and take a atv trail and go camp back in there. so there all was place to camp. :mrgreen:


Not everyone has the luxury of four wheelers. Anyway you spin it is illegal.


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## dkhntrdstn

bullsnot said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree for the hole summer is BS.I will agree with you on that.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so where is the line? At what point do we say it's too long? 2 weeks? 4 weeks? 3 months? I read where you said you see nothing wrong with a couple of weeks BEFORE your hunt which will take you over the legal limit so it's not the law in your eyes that has anything to do with it. So what majic formula do you have that says 14+ days is cool but 90 days isn't?
Click to expand...

Where is the line. Start turning them in if they are not moving there trailer every 16 days.My magic formula is move my tent a foot and im good to go another 16 days. They will not bug you if you are in your camp and you go over. it when you leave it untended for a 16 day time frame.


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## bullsnot

dkhntrdstn said:


> it a 16 day limit any where you go. So as long as you move it a inch or a foot you got another 16 day limit to go. :mrgreen: Yes we all Owen the mountains. If I go to a place and there nor where for me to camp. I guess I park my truck and take my atv's and load them up and take a atv trail and go camp back in there. so there all was place to camp. :mrgreen:


You dodged my question. What formula do you have that says 14+ is ok but 90 days isn't? Please enlighten us.


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## dkhntrdstn

jahan said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> it a 16 day limit any where you go. So as long as you move it a inch or a foot you got another 16 day limit to go. :mrgreen: Incorrect, please try again. :lol:  Yes we all OwenI love Owen Wilson, he is a funny sumbiatch the mountains. If I go to a place and there nor where for me to camp. I guess I park my truck and take my atv's and load them up and take a atv trail and go camp back in there. so there all was place to camp. :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone has the luxury of four wheelers. Anyway you spin it is illegal.
Click to expand...

maybe down south it a 16 day limit I dont know I dont go down there. I have talked to the forest people and they said we cant do anything to you as long as you move it a inch or a foot after the 16 days. Im sorry every one don't have the luxury to a fourwheeler.


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## dkhntrdstn

bullsnot said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> it a 16 day limit any where you go. So as long as you move it a inch or a foot you got another 16 day limit to go. :mrgreen: Yes we all Owen the mountains. If I go to a place and there nor where for me to camp. I guess I park my truck and take my atv's and load them up and take a atv trail and go camp back in there. so there all was place to camp. :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> You dodged my question. What formula do you have that says 14+ is ok but 90 days isn't? Please enlighten us.
Click to expand...

Im not saying 90 days isnt. It fine as long as they move it every 14 or 16 days. Then it fine. I did not dodge your question.Im not saying Im right on all of these thing. But if funny how people come on here and bitch about this stuff instead of turning people in.Stop bitching about it on here and do something about it.


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## bullsnot

dkhntrdstn said:


> Im not saying 90 days isnt.


Actually you did. You said that "I agree the whole summer is BS" in a previous post. So let's say the summer (short version) is 90 days long at it's most conservative number. So why is 14+ ok but 90+ is BS?



dkhntrdstn said:


> It fine as long as they move it every 14 or 16 days. Then it fine.


So honestly how long are your hunts? Are you telling us that you reserve a spot for 2 weeks before a hunt, then hunt for no more than 2 days and either go home or pack up your whole camp and move to another spot?



dkhntrdstn said:


> But if funny how people come on here and **** about this stuff instead of turning people in.Stop bitching about it on here and do something about it.


You are deflecting. No one said they don't turn people in.


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## dkhntrdstn

bullsnot said:


> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im not saying 90 days isnt.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually you did. You said that "I agree the whole summer is BS" in a previous post. So let's say the summer (short version) is 90 days long at it's most conservative number. So why is 14+ ok but 90+ is BS?
> 
> But the summer is not 90 days. Fine then the hole summer is ok as long as they move there trailer or tent every 16 days. As long as they move it a inch or a foot.
> 
> 
> 
> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> It fine as long as they move it every 14 or 16 days. Then it fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So honestly how long are your hunts? Are you telling us that you reserve a spot for 2 weeks before a hunt, then hunt for no more than 2 days and either go home or pack up your whole camp and move to another spot?
> 
> Some people have the trailer up there for the archery hunt then they have a family member with a muzzy tag and then some with any weapon elk hunt and then the ge deer hunt.No I don't pack up and come home or move.I stay there in tell I plan on coming home. If they come and make my tire or my tent then I will move it a inch one way or the other then it has been move and I will still be in my same camping spot. :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> dkhntrdstn said:
> 
> 
> 
> But if funny how people come on here and **** about this stuff instead of turning people in.Stop bitching about it on here and do something about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are deflecting. No one said they don't turn people in.
Click to expand...

No body saying they are ether.All they are saying is I'm going to call BML tomorrow and let them know. Turning people in is getting a linc plat number and pic and saying here is the info.I was camping for this date to this date and never seen a person in this camp and yes I will go to court if I need to. :mrgreen:


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## bullsnot

How however many days you use to define summer is just arguing semantics and the point is still valid. You can't seem to state one position clearly as to why your situation is ok but someone that does it "all summer" is in the wrong. Once the hypocrecy is pointed out suddenly its ok to do it "all summer" as long as you move an ich or a foot. Which is it an inch or a foot?

I don't think moving an inch or a foot qualifies as moving camp. (Which I'm sure you don't do that anyway and would be a pointless regulation) It seems you interpret the rules as you see fit to justify what you are doing. I'll say it again the only reason you are getting away with it is because most, like me, don't do what you are doing so it's not a big problem. If everyone did it I can all but guarantee they would crack down on it much more than they are doing. 

Although I can't find anything on web yet to back this up but I have also heard from rangers that you are not supposed to leave your camp unattended for more than 24 hours. I don't wish necessarily to see you be cited (well maybe I do) but rather I would like to see people have some common curtesy. It sounds like though you pick and choose which rules you wish to follow.


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## RedNeck

you have to move your camp 3 miles after 16 days that is the rule


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## wyogoob

The Feds call camping outside of a developed campground "dispersed camping"; so Google your heart out.

Each National Forest district has it's own limit for leaving a camper or tent, and what is considered "moving camp". In my experiences, most National Forest dispersed camping in Utah and Wyoming has at least a 14 day limit and you have to move your camper a foot or so. For example, dispersed camping along the Mirror Lake Higway is 14 days. I often set a camper up for long stretches of volunteer work in the National Forest during the summer.

There are a few exceptions in each district, i.e. heavily used areas, sensitive marshes, rare plant species, nesting or calving areas, revegetation sites, but they are usually posted.

Dispersed camping in the Bridger Teton National Forest, where many non-resident Utahns hunt, is 16 days. 16-day limit signs can be found throughout the BT Forest. The rangers are fine with us moving our campers just a few feet, usually by just turning the tongue 90°, or less.

As far as I know the BLM has a 14-day limit. see: http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/st__geor ... mping.html

Lastly, state lands may have different rules for dispersed camping. I think the dispersed camping limit in Wyoming is 14 days, can't remember, and geeze I have a maintenance contract with the State of Wyoming on some restrooms, boat ramps, parking lots...frequently used "dispersed camping" spots.


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## Fowlmouth

I know tickets are being issued daily up 12 mile canyon right now for camps left unattended. The fine is $125, I know people who have got tickets this week. They are patroling the mountain daily and are checking to see if the same rigs are in the same place for extended periods of time. Also they are enforcing ATV registration, trailer and vehicle registration as well as youth riders having a license. If you are heading that direction for the hunts or for recreation make sure you have everything in order so you don't get a ticket.


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## RedNeck

Goob great INFO Thanks


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## wyogoob

******* said:


> Goob great INFO Thanks


Yeah, remember there are always exceptions. If uncertain, before you go just call the FS, BLM, or State office that controls the ground you want to camp on.


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## wyogoob

By the way, the Flaming Gorge National Recreation Area has a 16-day dispersed camping limit. That includes boat camping.

see:
http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel- ... 68274.html


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## bullsnot

wyogoob said:


> By the way, the Flaming Gorge National Recreation Area has a 16-day dispersed camping limit. That includes boat camping.
> 
> see:
> http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel- ... 68274.html


On the link provided above it states, "The recreation area enforces a 16 day limit per site". Wouldn't this suggest you must leave to the site after 16 days? Also on the BLM website it says "Camping at any one site is limited to 14 days per visit" which would also suggest that you must leave a site once your 14 days is up. That doesn't seem to fit moving a few feet or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

Also I couldn't find anything that states that you can't leave your camp unattended for a period of time?


----------



## bullsnot

Fowlmouth said:


> I know tickets are being issued daily up 12 mile canyon right now for camps left unattended.


Do you have an idea of exactly how they are defining unattended?


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## bullsnot

wyogoob said:


> Yeah, remember there are always exceptions. If uncertain, before you go just call the FS, BLM, or State office that controls the ground you want to camp on.


I gotta be honest and maybe it's the economy but I have called these agencies before and they direct me to the local ranger station. Usually I either get passed around to several people who don't know the answer or I get someone that says one thing and then when I ask an officer in the field I get a different answer.

I once was close to getting in hot water after speaking to the Forest Service once about an area designated as a "water shed" but they told me it was ok to hunt. A state game warden nearly hauled my tail to jail when they found me hunting there. The only way I was able to get out of it was I gave him the name and number (I carried it with me in the field luckily) of the Forest Service employee that said it was ok. He called him on the spot and let me leave with a warning.

Once I called the Forest Service and asked of sheep were being run in a canyon before I hunted and they could never tell me if they ever gave out the a lease for sheep in the canyon and I ended up going and looking for myself.


----------



## Fowlmouth

bullsnot said:


> Fowlmouth said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know tickets are being issued daily up 12 mile canyon right now for camps left unattended.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have an idea of exactly how they are defining unattended?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing camps that have been up there for an extended period of time with no owners around. I know officials are driving the canyon daily and keeping track of what campers are in the area and which ones have not moved. I don't know what time frame they are allowing camps to be set up unattended. I just know friends from Centerfield that got tickets last weekend.


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## wyogoob

bullsnot said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, the Flaming Gorge National Recreation Area has a 16-day dispersed camping limit. That includes boat camping.
> 
> see:
> http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel- ... 68274.html
> 
> 
> 
> On the link provided above it states, "The recreation area enforces a 16 day limit per site". Wouldn't this suggest you must leave to the site after 16 days? Also on the BLM website it says "Camping at any one site is limited to 14 days per visit" which would also suggest that you must leave a site once your 14 days is up. That doesn't seem to fit moving a few feet or am I interpreting it incorrectly?
> 
> Interpret it anyway you want, I'm talking about 35 years of first-hand experiences.
> 
> Also I couldn't find anything that states that you can't leave your camp unattended for a period of time?
> 
> Keep looking then.
Click to expand...


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## dkhntrdstn

bullsnot said:


> It sounds like though you pick and choose which rules you wish to follow.


No I dont pick what rules I want to fallow.I fallow all of the rules. I have not stayed for more then a 10 days in a row.Im not going to sit here and bitch with you. You do what you want to do and I will do what I want. I gave my 10000.00 worth and that all I was doing have a great time and good luck next weekend.


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## Old Fudd

I Understand what your saying bout leaving trailers for more than 16 days on public land, If that don't work , go elsewhere. But don't you think that it is a tad bit chicken S---.for the person who travels 250 or 350 miles 2 days before the hunt, just to find out somebody dumped there trailer a month in advance. rules apply for some people. Oh well....


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## wyogoob

oldfudd said:


> I Understand what your saying bout leaving trailers for more than 16 days on public land, If that don't work , go elsewhere. But don't you think that it is a tad bit chicken S---.for the person who travels 250 or 350 miles 2 days before the hunt, just to find out somebody dumped there trailer a month in advance. rules apply for some people. Oh well....


Yeah, yeah, the "move your outfit a foot" rule actually trumps the 16-day limit. Campers can tie up a spot for a long period some places. And then the "good ole boy" rule trumps the 16-day rule. 

Don't forget we have to have a 4-door pickup pulling a 30' 5th wheel, pulling a 10' wheeler trailer. Then there's mom and the kids in a van. And an 8' diameter fire ring is essential. Available camping spaces get eaten up pretty fast.

So goes the West.


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## bullsnot

Wyogoob - I get the impression you are a very seasoned, respected, intellegent person with lots of real world experience. All I'm trying to do is converse with you. But that's not possible if when something is brought up that may be in slight contridiction to what you're saying you pull the trump card of 35 years experience. Most of us have some solid first hand experience, no point in puffing out our chest and arguing resumes. I think things have just been "done" a certain way for a long time and what the rules really are may have got lost on some of us. I think you brought up the "good ole boy" system. That's fine if some live by it, but let's not confuse that for law. Some laws are just not enforced.

dkhntrdstn - Again just trying to have a fact based conversation. You said you see nothing wrong with leaving a camp unattended for a "couple" of weeks. I was trying to point out that it's not legal to do that and understand why you thought it was. In the end rather than bring facts and rationale you choose to write off the subject and ignore the facts of the conversation.

In the end it seems we have some people that have done this for along time without any issues from the law and simply don't want to talk about it. In their eyes it's ok and to them it's end of conversation. I will choose not to participate not only because I believe it to be against the law (as it should be) but it's common curtesy. I feel the public lands that we all use is there for us to use when we are present, not for storing RV's and homesteading a camp spot for long periods of time. If it's so easy for the rest of us to "go find another spot" then it is for you too.


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## wyogoob

wyogoob said:


> oldfudd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I Understand what your saying bout leaving trailers for more than 16 days on public land, If that don't work , go elsewhere. But don't you think that it is a tad bit chicken S---.for the person who travels 250 or 350 miles 2 days before the hunt, just to find out somebody dumped there trailer a month in advance. rules apply for some people. Oh well....
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the "move your outfit a foot" rule actually trumps the 16-day limit. Campers can tie up a spot for a long period some places. And then the "good ole boy" rule trumps the 16-day rule.
> 
> Don't forget we have to have a 4-door pickup pulling a 30' 5th wheel, pulling a 10' wheeler trailer. Then there's mom and the kids in a van. And an 8' diameter fire ring is essential. Available camping spaces get eaten up pretty fast.
> 
> So goes the West.
Click to expand...

Oh, I forgot, Uncle Jessie's horse trailer.

My point is maybe there should be a rule on the amount of space one can tie up too.


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## bowhunter3

this thread is getting old, most of the people I know actually respect the 16 day limit and will move there trailer as I do, to a completely different spot miles away as you are supposed to. Just let it go guys...


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## wyogoob

bowhunter3 said:


> this thread is getting old, most of the people I know actually respect the 16 day limit...................................................


Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Say, later today I'm going to move this thing to "The Great Outdoors Section". That's really where it belongs.


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## jahan

Well I wish I still had the note that was left on my tent that stated you can NOT leave your camp unattended for more than 24 hours. I had a note that was a pre-written note from the forest service, it was legit. Also I don't believe moving the trailer a few inches constitutes "moving" camp and if it does that is ridiculous. Great post bullsnot. Dustin, you know I am just giving you a hard time and I also am here to let you know you are wrong also. :mrgreen: :lol:


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## Mountain Time

dkhntrdstn said:


> You don't *Owen* the dam mountains.


Dustin, please don't take this the wrong way because I enjoy reading your posts on the forum and think your a good guy, but this has to be one of my favorite "Dustinisms" so far. May become my signature line! 

Tex, where are you? Thought you would have hit this one out of the park by now! Especially considering the topic....


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## wyogoob

jahan said:


> Well I wish I still had the note that was left on my tent that stated you can NOT leave your camp unattended for more than 24 hours. I had a note that was a pre-written note from the forest service, it was legit................. :mrgreen: :lol:


I don't think you read my post on page 4 jahan I'm not discouinting what you said:

......................*Each National Forest district has it's own limit for leaving a camper or tent, and what is considered "moving camp". In my experiences, most National Forest dispersed camping in Utah and Wyoming has at least a 14 day limit and you have to move your camper a foot or so. For example, dispersed camping along the Mirror Lake Higway is 14 days. I often set a camper up for long stretches of volunteer work in the National Forest during the summer.

There are a few exceptions in each district, i.e. heavily used areas, sensitive marshes, rare plant species, nesting or calving areas, revegetation sites, but they are usually posted...................*

And I never said I agreed or disagreed with any of these policies, just passing on what I read in brochures and on the web, and my experiences.


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## bullsnot

wyogoob said:


> I don't think you read my post on page 4 jahan I'm not discouinting what you said:
> 
> And I never said I agreed or disagreed with any of these policies, just passing on what I read in brochures and on the web, and my experiences.


But you are some what discounting I said. I'm taking this directly from the web sites you linked us to: "The recreation area enforces a 16 day limit per site." BLM site says "Camping at any *one site* is limited to 14 days *per visit*"

To me that says you must leave the site....not just move a few inches. If you are doing volunteer work for the summer I would think you would be exempt since you are technically working for them and not just recreational camping.

All I'm asking is what does this mean to everyone? I interpret it to mean a few inches or feet is not "moving" camp.


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## Treehugnhuntr

If the intent was to move your camp a few inches, why even have any regulation at all?????


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## wyogoob

bullsnot said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you read my post on page 4 jahan I'm not discouinting what you said:
> 
> And I never said I agreed or disagreed with any of these policies, just passing on what I read in brochures and on the web, and my experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are some what discounting I said. I'm taking this directly from the web sites you linked us to: "The recreation area enforces a 16 day limit per site." BLM site says "Camping at any *one site* is limited to 14 days *per visit*"
> 
> To me that says you must leave the site....not just move a few inches. If you are doing volunteer work for the summer I would think you would be exempt since you are technically working for them and not just recreational camping.
> 
> All I'm asking is what does this mean to everyone? I interpret it to mean a few inches or feet is not "moving" camp.
Click to expand...

Again, interpret it anyway you want. My advice, again, would be to call the Forest Service where you intend to set up camp.

And yeah, I've never seen anything spelled out how far you had to move your rig to define a "visit". Just telling ya my experiences.

As far as me camping during volunteer work, that would be another thread all together. It gets into contracts, liability, waivers, is it BLM?, DOT?, USFS?, all the above?.....stuff completely different than setting up to hunt.

This is timely for me, we have the same battle going on here in Hooterville, but over parking trailers an dtoys on public streets. The city ordinances don't spell out how far you have to move a rig to start the "temporary parking clock" again. Some of the cops say "just a little bit" some say "go around the corner", blah, blah, blah, same story.

All good points, don't forget, I'm moving the thread later.


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## nickpan

bullsnot said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you read my post on page 4 jahan I'm not discounting what you said:
> 
> And I never said I agreed or disagreed with any of these policies, just passing on what I read in brochures and on the web, and my experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are some what discounting I said. I'm taking this directly from the web sites you linked us to: "The recreation area enforces a 16 day limit per site." BLM site says "Camping at any *one site* is limited to 14 days *per visit*"
> 
> *To me that says you must leave the site....not just move a few inches.* If you are doing volunteer work for the summer I would think you would be exempt since you are technically working for them and not just recreational camping.
> 
> All I'm asking is what does this mean to everyone? I interpret it to mean a few inches or feet is not "moving" camp.
Click to expand...

Define "site"....... There is just too much left for interpretation, therefore nobody is technically right or technically wrong. I see it every year and it doesn't bother me. There are always more places to camp. Most of the time it's saving for big groups of people, saving money and time for hauling it up there every weekend. If i want is that bad i'd be up to do the same. Been checked by the FS and when he says its time to go we go.


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## dkhntrdstn

jahan said:


> Dustin, you know I am just giving you a hard time and I also am here to let you know you are wrong also. :mrgreen: :lol:


Hey that fine. Your not the first or the last person to tell me this. :mrgreen:


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## dkhntrdstn

Mountain Time said:


> Dustin, please don't take this the wrong way because I enjoy reading your posts on the forum and think your a good guy, but this has to be one of my favorite "Dustinisms" so far. May become my signature line!
> 
> Tex, where are you? Thought you would have hit this one out of the park by now! Especially considering the topic....


Go right a head and put that on there. Im glad you like reading my post. :mrgreen:


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## Fishracer

This sounds an awful lot like the "tree stand" debate. Maybe we should just treat it as such. See an empty camp with a trailer, use it for a couple of days until the owner returns. :lol: :O•-: Jk. I don't think its right to reserve anything in the woods. But that's just me.


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## nickpan

Not sure if you're really "reserving" anything. You could still set up camp within or near theirs if you wanted to. If they had a pile of nicely chopped wood and weren't there, hey looks like you already have fire wood. Might not be a pleasant confrontation if they showed up but its all public right? 

If you can't beat em, Join em!


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## RedNeck

This is no different then the tree stands none what so ever With that being said it is not our job to do anything about it but report it. We dont have to like it but we do have to live with it. -O\__-


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## wyogoob

Fishracer said:


> This sounds an awful lot like the "tree stand" debate. Maybe we should just treat it as such. See an empty camp with a trailer, use it for a couple of days until the owner returns. :lol: :O•-: Jk. I don't think its right to reserve anything in the woods. But that's just me.


Yeah, yeah, why aren't temporary or removable tree stands treated like camping spots?

Where I hunt elk (Forest Service) we can leave an unattended spike camp out in the woods for 16 days, just like leaving a camper at the road. So if I don't get an elk with a bow, on the last day of the bow hunt I leave my little tent up, hide my stuff down in the dark timber, and come back 14 days later, the night before the opener for elk rifle.


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## bullsnot

nickpan said:


> Define "site"....... There is just too much left for interpretation


Ah yes....define "site". There is some gray area in that without a doubt. There is not clear defnition but at the LEAST you could draw a circle around all the area you are using for your camp and move it from there allowing someone else to move into the spot. I think if you go to the "spirit" of the law there is little left to interpretation. I think it's pretty clear what the intent there was.

I'm pushing the issue because I really want to know the answer. I will make some calls...expect many different answers though.

At the end of the day it's usually not a big deal like you said.....but every once in a while I take two days off work to leave early to find a decent camping spot to find it full and many of the camps are empty. I could've showed up at the last minute to have to find a cramped 45 degree angled camp spot!!


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## GaryFish

So how many days until the hunt starts?


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## wyogoob

GaryFish said:


> So how many days until the hunt starts?


Hunt? What hunt?

he, he, he, he

bak2wurk


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## Fishracer

So how many days until the hunt starts?

10


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## bullsnot

Funny story...I just called the Uinta-Wasatch-Cache office in Salt Lake City and asked about the camping limit. She said it was 14 days in any one spot during a calendar year. (didn't expect the calendar year part) I asked if moving my camp a few feet counted and she laughed out loud and said,"no honey the rules say you must move at least 10 miles." 

I'm sure every piece of land (NF, State, BLM) is managed differently but I think that makes that issue pretty clear in at least the forests I mentioned above.

The hunt doesn't start soon enough!! I'm all wound up right now...honestly a big part is the anticipation!!


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## dkhntrdstn

GaryFish said:


> So how many days until the hunt starts?


well if you count today it 10 if not it 9 and I got 8 days left before I head to my already saved spot that been saved for a week all most. :mrgreen:


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## wyogoob

bullsnot said:


> Funny story...I just called the Uinta-Wasatch-Cache office in Salt Lake City and asked about the camping limit. She said it was 14 days in any one spot during a calendar year. (didn't expect the calendar year part) I asked if moving my camp a few feet counted and she laughed out loud and said,"no honey the rules say you must move at least 10 miles."
> 
> I'm sure every piece of land (NF, State, BLM) is managed differently but I think that makes that issue pretty clear in at least the forests I mentioned above.
> 
> The hunt doesn't start soon enough!! I'm all wound up right now...honestly a big part is the anticipation!!


Now we're talkin'. Good job!

Uh, I never heard the calendar year part ever.

It's all a crock.

I get 16 days and 6 inches! :mrgreen:


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## wyogoob

"honey" 

give me her phone number


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## bullsnot

I know....my wife doesn't even call me that.


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## Fishracer

Anticipation...... Just think of it as foreplay. Lots of foreplay!


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## bullsnot

Fishracer said:


> Anticipation...... Just think of it as foreplay. Lots of foreplay!


Yeah but too much foreplay is considered teasing! :evil: It's time to get it on!!


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## GSLHonker

I took a drive up around current creek/mill hollow/red creek mountain area today and ran into a Forest Service ranger. I asked him about all the empty camps that were in the area and how long they could be there unattended. He told me 14 days then they need to be moved 10 miles away, he said they have received allot of complaints and are going to be ticketing people this year... take it for what its worth. I hope they do the same thing on the Manti as well, I wish I would have asked him if the same rule applies to sheep hearders camps, not that it matters just curious is all.


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## Fishracer

GSLHonker said:


> I took a drive up around current creek/mill hollow/red creek mountain area today and ran into a Forest Service ranger. I asked him about all the empty camps that were in the area and how long they could be there unattended. He told me 14 days then they need to be moved 10 miles away, he said they have received allot of complaints and are going to be ticketing people this year... take it for what its worth. I hope they do the same thing on the Manti as well, I wish I would have asked him if the same rule applies to sheep hearders camps, not that it matters just curious is all.


Good. I gave them a heads up for current creek. Hope they do something about it this year. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Trigger

Up high in Current Creek where alot of the hunters camp the forest service has closed a bunch of spots which will really make it a circus finding a spot. I usually take my trailer up a couple days early so I can bring my horses when I come then it takes me a couple of trips to get everything home. I wonder how to do that with-out getting a ticket.


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## hikein

I hope this isn't off topic but I see plenty of nice bucks in several scouting areas, one 30" buck last year that saw numerous times in one specific area. Just before the hunts start camper trailers file up the canyon and camp in those specific areas(everywhere). One right on the 30" bucks favorite gooseberry bush. 

Basically, people are camping right in the middle of the deer's summer range/beds, pushing them presumably into the thick. Camping in these (dispersed) camping areas is free and I'm assuming nice, but you have to know you've displaced your shooter buck.


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## Huge29

I am just amazed to hear so many accounts of such selfish so called sportsmen reserving their spot for weeks at a time. Regardless of laws, we all know that it simply can't be enforced, simple as the golden rule I think. I would have to say that it is very much fair game to move right in nice and close to any abandoned campsite. I can certainly appreciate someone who needs to drop off the trailer at most 5 days earlier due to needing to bring horses later, but anything beyond that is not reasonable to me particularly to save your spot when there are few spots available...just my $0.02.


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## Treehugnhuntr

ha, we did that exact thing last year. Someone had left a trailer for several weeks before the hunt opened in a huge meadow, Strategically placed to more or less "reserve" the area. We proceeded to set up a nice, large camp a few hundred feet away. They weren't happy, but I think they spent the entire hunt looking for someone who 
cared......


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## jahan

Treehugnhuntr said:


> ha, we did that exact thing last year. Someone had left a trailer for several weeks before the hunt opened in a huge meadow, Strategically placed to more or less "reserve" the area. We proceeded to set up a nice, large camp a few hundred feet away. They weren't happy, but I think they spent the entire hunt looking for someone who
> cared......


I think that is funny. I also love the irony of them being mad when they were the one trying to reserve public grounds. I tell you what, for those wanting to reserve the mountain for the summer, there are designated campgrounds that you can reserve way in advance and then you can have your spot all summer long. 8)


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## bowhunter3

Man you guys care about way to much ****!!!!!!!


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## jahan

Your right I do, it is a major pet peeve of mine, I hate selfish, inconsiderate people, be it camping or driving. When I can't get a spot because a whole bunch of ass hats thing they own the mountain, yes I get pissed.


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## bowhunter3

How do you guys even know how long these trailers have been up on the mountain, or if they just went into town for a few hours, and why the hell would you want to camp by someone anyways, the places I go only 2 trailers at the most could fit into, I would never try and take up a huge meadow or something like that. I know I may be an exception since I am up on the hill all summer long anyways but, I don't know I just don't let a lot of things get to me...well except maybe for hypocritical byu fans lol!!!!


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## bowhunter3

I guess I also don't know how bad it is in other places, I mean anywhere out here anyone could find camp spots very easily, there is just no way they all can be taken up. So I don't really know how it feels not to get a spot, a lot of times the place i wanted to camp at was taken so i find another one and end up loving that spot and finding my new favorite.


----------



## jahan

bowhunter3 said:


> How do you guys even know how long these trailers have been up on the mountain, or if they just went into town for a few hours, and why the hell would you want to camp by someone anyways, the places I go only 2 trailers at the most could fit into, I would never try and take up a huge meadow or something like that. I know I may be an exception since I am up on the hill all summer long anyways but, I don't know I just don't let a lot of things get to me...well except maybe for hypocritical byu fans lol!!!!


See now you go and cross the line and call me a BYU fan, them are fighting words. :mrgreen:  :lol:

As far as your first question. In the Manti, in the area I like to go there are about three to four older, piece of crap trailers that I see all summer long. These people take that trailer to the spot they want to camp the next weekend, drop it off. They show up the next Friday with there big brand new fifth wheels and four wheelers. They will camp for the weekend, do the same thing sometimes it is multiple weeks before they show back up. Sometimes these guys will take a spot that can hold lots of trailers and just have one trailer in there. These trailers are dropped off, they don't even take the time to level them out and make it look like someone is there. Now there are a lot of camp sites up there, but there are very few BIG camp sites. We go with the whole family, which is upwards of 8 trailers. It is irritating when you see a trailer reserving the spot on a Tuesday, when you intentionally took time off to go in the middle of the week to increase your chances of getting a spot big enough for everyone. Yeah, I could have done the same thing they did, but that is inconsiderate. It is a first come first serve type deal, I am fine is someone is there camping and they beat me to the spot, that is cool, but don't reserve it with no intentions to camp until the weekend. Sorry I am just trying to give you a better understanding of why I feel the way I do. BTW, I am a Utah and USU fan, BYU stinks. :lol:


----------



## bowhunter3

o I know you are I wasn't saying you were a byu fan, I know what colors you bleed


----------



## bullsnot

bowhunter3 said:


> I guess I also don't know how bad it is in other places, I mean anywhere out here anyone could find camp spots very easily, there is just no way they all can be taken up. So I don't really know how it feels not to get a spot, a lot of times the place i wanted to camp at was taken so i find another one and end up loving that spot and finding my new favorite.


Are you camped perhaps somewhere on or near the Red Cloud Loop? The area out by vernal is much more open than some of the areas in other forests. I think you're right out in that country it would be near impossible to take all the spots but in other places the vegetation and terrain mean many less spots.

Go UTES!!!


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## bowhunter3

bullsnot said:


> bowhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I also don't know how bad it is in other places, I mean anywhere out here anyone could find camp spots very easily, there is just no way they all can be taken up. So I don't really know how it feels not to get a spot, a lot of times the place i wanted to camp at was taken so i find another one and end up loving that spot and finding my new favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you camped perhaps somewhere on or near the Red Cloud Loop? The area out by vernal is much more open than some of the areas in other forests. I think you're right out in that country it would be near impossible to take all the spots but in other places the vegetation and terrain mean many less spots.
> 
> Go UTES!!!
Click to expand...

Yes sir!!!


----------

