# Doe Antelope- .223 or 300?



## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

I drew on antlerless antelope on Deseret this year, problem is my two rifles are a .223 and a 300. I'm assuming a .223 is a little too light and a 300 is a little overkill, which of the two is my best option? I'd like to use my .223 and just make sure I don't take any shots past 200 or is that a stupid idea?


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

What twist is the .223? If its 1/8 or faster you can use those lovely new sierra 65grn SPBT's, those would be great on a doe 'lope.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1395/224-dia-65-gr-SBT

-DallanC


----------



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Boy that is a rough predicament to be in. Sounds like a good reason to buy a .243 or 7mm-08. But if that isnt an option, you could also look at loading a lighter load in your 300.

Im so leery of using a .223 on big game. I know the bullets are better than they used to be, but I worry that you will have a wounded animal that you track for miles if the shot isnt perfect.

Thats just me, and I know guys will tell you to go ahead and use a quality pill and you'll be fine. But I think that my choice would be to use the 300.


----------



## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

DallanC said:


> What twist is the .223? If its 1/8 or faster you can use those lovely new sierra 65grn SPBT's, those would be great on a doe 'lope.
> 
> https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1395/224-dia-65-gr-SBT
> 
> -DallanC


It is a 1/8 twist.

I know Bax, it certainly isn't ideal! I think another gun is out of the budget unless a miracle happens.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Sell the 300 and 223 and buy a 25-06. Then you will be meg cool in my book.----SS


----------



## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I was thinking about white tail hunters back east and lots of them use .223s to shoot their deer.

Antelope really arent too far apart in size, so maybe you should just give it a try. But if you do, I would really like to see a report and a retrieved bullet / penetration.


----------



## trclements (Jan 17, 2012)

Use the 300 and put the bullet right at the base of the skull where it meets the neck. That way you aren't tearing up all that meat in the shoulders. I would hate to use a living animal as a test subject to see if the 223 will be enough. What if it isn't? A little too much is better than not quite enough in my book when it comes to a quick and ethical kill.


----------



## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

300wm with 130gr TTSX loaded down to about 3200fps. The bullet wont come apart and blow the thing to bits, but shoots pretty flat out to 400 yards or so. 

If ya want to try some let me know, I could spare a few to let ya try before you spend $40.00 on a box.


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

This would be a great time to pick up a 25-06 and rechamber it to the 25-06 Ackley. Then you would have a great deer and antelope round. Leave the .223 for the coyotes and the .300 for elk. But if it is is between the two I would go with the .300 and a neck shot, or even the ribs. Leave the shoulder alone or you will loose meat.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Why do I get goosebumps whenever anyone talks about a 25-06 Ackley? I challenge anyone to name a finer antelope cartridge........and style points galore!-------SS


----------



## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I am going to put myself out there for criticism, but I would probably use the .223. I am going to try and validate myself by saying that a doe pronghorn is not going to be as robust as a buck pronghorn. A .223 is probably barely good enough for deer sized game and body shots. That being said a pronghorn is less than what I would call deer sized game. 

I have shot a many pronghorn in my days with both a bow and a rifle and they do not handle trauma very well. Their hides are so thin they are hard to brain tan without accidentally rubbing a hole in the hide. Their hairs are also more fragile giving less resistance that a deers hide. As long as you are not using a rapid expansion bullet a perforation in the lungs is going to do the same thing as a .25 diameter bullet doing the same thing. 

If your .223 is a tack driver and you are confident with it, I see no reason why a .223 with a slow expanding bullets should not ethically thwart a doe pronghorn with a shot in the vitals. 

That being said I will be using my 30-06 on my doe pronghorn hunt this year. Even though I have a .204 Ruger it is not worth it to me to buy slow expanding rounds for the .204 Ruger and then sighting the thing back in with a new round. 

Since you mentioned you would not shoot past 200 yards and your prefer to use the .223 I would say that there is no ethical alarm going off in my head to tell you to do otherwise. Good luck on your hunt Deseret should put a lope in the back of your truck in a heart beat.... and no guide fee on speed goats. :grin:


----------



## mtnrunner260 (Feb 15, 2010)

Maybe Todd Black will chime in with his thoughts/experiences as the DLL guide. I think he posts here on occasion. 
I am in the same boat with WYO with 223 and 7mag. 
We need to get together and do some testing. Anyone have suggestions for a test short of buying ballistics gel?


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't really understand this whole concept of "too much gun" I hear thrown around on here. What are you guys doing? Shooting them in the butt? Put that big .300 right BEHIND the shoulder and you will be fine. The .223 would probably work good as well, but the antelope will eat better if it is killed instantly instead of running all over and getting a lot of adrenaline flowing. The .223 could kill a lope instantly I'm sure, but the .300 win mag would give you a much better chance of a bang flop.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

colorcountrygunner said:


> ... but the .300 win mag would give you a much better chance of a bang flop.


Big guns cause flinch in alot of people. I saw a buck antelope hobbling along with half its butt missing due to a bad hit from a 7Mag. Some people cant handle mags, its a fact. A person is better with a smaller caliber they shoot accurately than a big one they cant hit a pie plate with at 200 yards.

My dad hunted with a .22-250 for as long as I can remember. I dont recall a deer he hit that got away, most were DRT. He loved that he could put a bullet exactly where he wanted, any time he wanted. Stick'em accurately in the boiler room and dont try to break shoulders, smaller calibers are fine.

-DallanC


----------



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

DallanC said:


> Big guns cause flinch in alot of people. I saw a buck antelope hobbling along with half its butt missing due to a bad hit from a 7Mag. Some people cant handle mags, its a fact. A person is better with a smaller caliber they shoot accurately than a big one they cant hit a pie plate with at 200 yards.
> 
> My dad hunted with a .22-250 for as long as I can remember. I dont recall a deer he hit that got away, most were DRT. He loved that he could put a bullet exactly where he wanted, any time he wanted. Stick'em accurately in the boiler room and dont try to break shoulders, smaller calibers are fine.
> 
> -DallanC


I won't disagree with that, Dallan. I figured if he owned a .300 WM he can shoot it well. If that's not the case, then the .223 would be better.


----------



## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Id go with the 300 because I had the exact same senerao on the exact same doe antelope hunt hes going on. I used a .223 and hit the doe at 200 yards in the guts. I over compensated for wind drift. I had to follow up the shot with adamsoa's 300 short mag at 300^ yards. Bang flop! The 300 doesnt care about wind. It also didnt do a whole lot of damage.


----------



## jeff788 (Aug 7, 2009)

I agree with colorcountrygunner, go with the 300 if you shoot it well. I had the same tag last year and debated between my .223 and my 30-06. I decided not to mess around I dropped mine on the spot with a behind-the-shoulder shot, with very little meat wasted. BTW used 150 gr. Hornady SST's, which is fairly fast expanding. With the lower velocity of the 30-06 and the 150 yard shot, it worked very well without fragmenting too much. With the additional velocity of the 300 I'd probably go with something with a little sturdier construction like a bonded or Barnes/GMX so that it doesn't fragment too much. This would especially be a concern at close range.

Good luck, it was a very fun hunt that I got to share with my 5 year-old daughter. And the meat was amazing!


----------



## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

I feel pretty comfortable with either gun. I've shot enough that I don't have much a flinch with the 300. Both are nail drivers at 250. Guess I'll have to start doing some research on what bullet to throw out there.


----------



## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I'd use the 223.

This is a sweet 223 set-up for deer/antelope, if you can find them (or handload some)--
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=210

or these 62gr-
http://www.fusionammo.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx

Just remember-- A gut-shot antelope with a 223 is a gut-shot antelope. A gut-shot antelope with a 300 is still a gut-shot antelope.

If that recommendation does not work then borrow something from SpringvilleShooter's arsenal...... haha


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

If you use 110grn bullets in the .300 and you wont have to clean it afterwards.


-DallanC


----------



## Seven (Jan 8, 2009)

*Both?*

Why can't you take both guns on the hunt? I thought all pronghorn hunts on deseret were unguided. If within your respectable 223 range use that and if farther use the 300. Maybe I am different but I can't think of a hunt within the last couple years that I didn't have a couple guns with me that could do the job.

I was able to harvest my cow elk last year with a AR15 because the shot was roughly 100 yards, but I did also have my 7mm with me in case the shot was farther than What I allowed for the use of the AR15.


----------



## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I'd take the .223. Put a good, solid bullet into the boiler room or at the base of the skull/neck junction. I'd want to have the Barnes TTSX if shooting in the chest though.


----------



## jeff788 (Aug 7, 2009)

I don't think that you'll be able to take both as you have to pass a shooting test prior to the hunt and they'll record the serial number of the gun. That is the gun you will be able to hunt with.

While I'd stick with the 300, the .223 should get the job done if you use good bullets and place the shot well. The Barnes TSX or Hornady GMX (if they make it in .223, not sure) would be my pick, as was suggested by others. I haven't used them in my .223, but I've used both the TSX and GMX in my 30-06 they expand beautifully, hold together, and penetrate deep. I'd expect the .223 bullets to do the same. I've settled on using 150 gr. GMX bullets for all of my hunting. The thing I like about the GMX is that you can use the same load data as the hornady lead-core bullets and they shoot to almost exactly the same point-of-aim as the SST (at least in my rifle). That way I can sight in and practice with the cheap SST's, and then confidently hunt with the much more expensive GMX.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

jeff788 said:


> I don't think that you'll be able to take both as you have to pass a shooting test prior to the hunt and they'll record the serial number of the gun. That is the gun you will be able to hunt with.


What happens if your gun doesn't have a serial # ??

-DallanC


----------



## fishreaper (Jan 2, 2014)

a don't see how a .223 with partitions could fail you. I took my first two deer with them and they did a fine job out of a break action. I know Federal Premium use to make them, at least as of about 6 or 7 years ago, but then I bumped up to a .243 for my first personal firearm (in conjunction with a .22 lr) when I turned 13 and haven't kept track of them. But of course, your mileage may vary. I fear a 300 is going to be a lot heavier, physically, than you probably want to carry. That is unless your .223 is a varmint style gun, but it's your call. 

But typically preferring winchester, they make 64 grain powerpoints, 64 grain lead-frees, and 64 grain powermax bondeds, and all for relatively cheap for factory.


----------



## fishreaper (Jan 2, 2014)

mtnrunner260 said:


> Maybe Todd Black will chime in with his thoughts/experiences as the DLL guide. I think he posts here on occasion.
> I am in the same boat with WYO with 223 and 7mag.
> We need to get together and do some testing. Anyone have suggestions for a test short of buying ballistics gel?


The most common medium I hear of people using is wet newspaper, but I have no personal experience with it. You would do best to look into it I imagine.


----------



## Seven (Jan 8, 2009)

jeff788 said:


> I don't think that you'll be able to take both as you have to pass a shooting test prior to the hunt and they'll record the serial number of the gun. That is the gun you will be able to hunt with.
> .


 From my understanding Pronghorn doe has never been guided. Plus I heard that they are not making you "qualify" starting this year. I don't know if it is true, just a rumor I heard.


----------

