# Bamboo Rod Dip Tank



## wyogoob

Instead of hijacking and boring everyone on Meesh's cool bamboo refurbishing post I'll just start my own on a bamboo finish dip tank. There's many differnet ways to set up a bamboo finish dip tank. This is the way I do it:

Usually the dip tanks are made of PVC pipe and fittings. I use a 4'-1" piece of 2" pipe welded to a heavy base. I put a tee on this one to facilitate a heater. I like the viscosity of the spar varnish at 75° F and my Wyoming basement is always cold. The shelf holds my flashlight and other tools. The 1/2" conduit holds a single-action fly reel that moves the rod piece in and out of the dip tube. The line from the reel goes up thru a pulley on the ceiling: 
















There's a 300-watt light fixture nearby to help with the visual inspection of the finish as the rod section comes out of the dip tube. A flashlight helps get the dark side, the shaded side. Close-up of rigging on ceiling:









A heavy weight on the hook keeps the thing from swinging. Tape a loop of heavy mono, knotted both ends, to the rod for something to hook to:









Finishing a mid-section:









The hoist reel has a clicker on it. I pull the rod out of the finish so many clicks per number of seconds, i.e. click, "a thousand and one, a thousand and two", then click:









Capillary action coats the rod. There's often an air bubble on each guide, but it is easily removed by touching it with a needle or burnishing tool. The finish on the rod surface is air drying to some degree as it breaks the plane of the liquid in the tube. Hard to explain. The guide wraps have been brush-finished and allowed to dry well in advance, usually 2 coats of spar varnish, before dipping. But some "cheat" and use 1 coat of epoxy on the thread wraps. Whatever, the thread wraps get covered with spar varnish when the rod section is dipped. If the viscosity and speed of removal are just right, little finish runs or drips off the end of the rod section when it's all the way out and hanging free. I kept record of the travel speeds until I got it right; so many seconds between clicks on the reel.

The tank will easily do 3-pc rods up to 11'-0" and 2-pc rods up to 7'-9". For longer 2-pc rods I move the tank under a hook in a stair well. Not too many 2-pc bamboo rods over 8' 0" that have much value, but there are people who want family "heirlooms" refinished.

When full the tank holds less than a gallon of varnish. When not in use the pipe cap is screwed on the top and the vessel is sealed with a couple wraps of electrical tape.

When each rod section is completely out of the tank it is checked again for any visible air bubbles or pieces of dust, hanging in place until it's dry enough that dust won't stick to it. After that it gets moved it to a "neutral" corner of the basement, a place that has no traffic on the floor above, and hang it on a hook on the ceiling. I like to let the rod dry at least a month before I use it or ship it off. A space heater, also in a neutral area of the basement, keeps the basement warm if needed, and hopefully dust-free, as the finish cures.

I was always going to build a drying cabinet, but finally give up bamboo rod finishing. There's just no money in it. I could easily spend 36 hours on a complete refurbish.

Well, that's the way old goob does it.


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## Meesh

Thanks for the rundown of your setup, it looks quite ingenious yet simple. A tube would be a huge time saver (not counting the time to MAKE the tube..) - it took me many hours to apply the U-40 by hand, and I mean literally by hand; I use my finger rather than a brush to apply it. I got the idea from something I read somewhere online, but I don't remember where. It worked very well, other than dust control. I'm going to build me a small clean box for my current project to see if that helps. 
I can see what you mean about no money being in rebuilds - lots of hours to get it right and I'm sure that family heirloom looks less appealing to the customer when the costs get up high enough to make it worth your while. 

Mind if I hijack this time? I'm just curious about your flu-flu arrows you have in the picture - are those for fish or birds? I've heard about guys taking birds on the wing with those, but it's hard to believe!

Thanks again.


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## wyogoob

Meesh said:


> Thanks for the rundown of your setup, it looks quite ingenious yet simple. A tube would be a huge time saver (not counting the time to MAKE the tube..) - it took me many hours to apply the U-40 by hand, and I mean literally by hand; I use my finger rather than a brush to apply it. I got the idea from something I read somewhere online, but I don't remember where. It worked very well, other than dust control. I'm going to build me a small clean box for my current project to see if that helps.
> I can see what you mean about no money being in rebuilds - lots of hours to get it right and I'm sure that family heirloom looks less appealing to the customer when the costs get up high enough to make it worth your while.
> 
> It doesn't take very long to dip a rod. Dust is the #1 enemy of rod finishes. I wipe the rod and myself down with tack cloth before finishing any rod.
> 
> Family heirloon bamboo: A #359 South Bend in worth $200 on a good day. Spend 30 hours on a refurbish and its worth $200.
> 
> Mind if I hijack this time? I'm just curious about your flu-flu arrows you have in the picture - are those for fish or birds? I've heard about guys taking birds on the wing with those, but it's hard to believe!
> 
> Had a bunch of small game points so I put together 4-dozen cedar arrows. Back in the 60s and 70s we hunted small game and game birds with recurves for fun. And we use to go to the high school football field and shoot frisbees for practice. It was a lot of fun, but I only got one pheasant in the air, kind of a hip shot thing. I made these for rabbits, grouse, and the grandkids. see: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46966
> 
> Thanks again.


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## madonafly

Very impressive Wyo. I would like to pick your brain some once I get the guides wrapped. The rod I am building is priced at the $400 to $500 mark, but I will be using this a lot and want a glass smooth finish as good as my Battenkill or Penns Creek.


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## wyogoob

madonafly said:


> Very impressive Wyo. I would like to pick your brain some once I get the guides wrapped. The rod I am building is priced at the $400 to $500 mark, but I will be using this a lot and want a glass smooth finish as good as my Battenkill or Penns Creek.


Sounds good.

You using silk thread?

Are the Penn's Creeks impregnated like the Battenkills?


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## madonafly

I think I might try silk, as I said with no preserver so it goes clear, but I also like the traditional colored threads as well. To add to that, I like GREEN for an option. I did green on a honey Lamiglass and it is so sweet looking.
I am not 100% sure, but I am under the impression all Orvis Rods are impregnated. I know Wes Jordan did the earlier after leaving South Bend and I am guessing the tradition was carried on by White.


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## wyogoob

I'm not sure, Orvis has been around a long time, but I think back in the day they had varnished rods. The impregnated rods are very durable, seldom do you see a set in a tip section of an impregnated bamboo rod.

The Orvis dark brown thread might be silk, can't remember. It's size A though, huge compared to 00, the standard for high(er)-end boo rods. I know if I only wrap one side of a guide on a repair Gudebrod brown 541 in size A is a perfect match.

Silk is light, super-strong and wonderfully transluscent. The lighter colors, like tan and lemon yellow almost disappear. White is used for repairs and is nearly invisible. Silk snags easily, leaving fuzzies that have to be trimmed off after a coat of finish is brushed on the wrapand let dry. Rough skin, fingernails, tools, even the thread carriage can snag silk thread. Silk doesn't stretch like nylon so I keep the thread tension backed off considerably.

Green is a great color. I have some "user" boo rods of my own to refinish that have a cool color of green thread.


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## madonafly

Well I guess I could have looked at them...LOL Here is the Battenkill
















Here is the Penns

















Here is the Lamiglass









Here is one of my 5 weight Bamboo


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## wyogoob

Nice stuff, nice work....one ugly albino. 

That Penn's Creek is a nice rod...I wish.

How old is the Battenkill? I just looked, and my Battenkills are darker cane and the glue lines aren't that visible.

How 'bout those single foot guides? They are hard to put on but make for a light rod. Do they still put them on store-bought rods? I don't go to sporting good stores anymore. Well, its a nice glas rod and cool handle. The green with gold trim was a popular color combo for wraps back in the day.


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## madonafly

I built the Lamiglass. Single foot were a b*^% to put on and I doubt that noticeable of a difference. Something I had to try to prove to myself.
The battenkill is around 2000 is maybe late 90's. It is in the safe, I will make a point to check that out.

A Taxidermist told me that was a Palomino not an Albino. It was interesting on the boo though.


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## wyogoob

Any pal a meno is a pal a mineo....uh, nevermind. You're right, an albino has red eyes.

I have 2 Battenkills from late 60s, 1 from 70s, serial range 44,xxx - #67,xxx

So are the single foot guides still being used? I use to cut thin rings of surgical tube; one was a stop to prevent the guide from walking up the blank and the other and the other held the guide on until the thread caught a hold of the guide foot. Geeze, one of my finest casting fly rods was a custom-built progressive action 2-tip Graphite II 9 for 6 with single-foot silicon carbide guides. In cold weather the thing was useless, guides were always froze shut.


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## madonafly

Mine is 89XXX


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## Meesh

I used Pearsall gossamer silk and after changing to a proper tensioner (as opposed to using my trusty book) I didn't end up with any fuzzy problems. 
I also put single foots on my sage and it worked out well, but I used a locking knot that I'd have to look up again if you're interested. I do prefer single foot guides over snakes as they seem to keep the line straighter, but I don't know if the weight savings is even noticeable. I just don't like snakes


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## wyogoob

Meesh said:


> I used Pearsall gossamer silk and after changing to a proper tensioner (as opposed to using my trusty book) I didn't end up with any fuzzy problems.
> I also put single foots on my sage and it worked out well, but I used a locking knot that I'd have to look up again if you're interested. I do prefer single foot guides over snakes as they seem to keep the line straighter, but I don't know if the weight savings is even noticeable. I just don't like snakes


I've never used Pearsall. I hear it has long fibers, not too fuzzy. If you apply a heavy finish to the threads, fuzzies aren't a problem anyway; they will get covered up with finish. The the thread in a book way isn't all that bad if you find a way to tie the book down without adding weight. Some of the masters just used a fly-tying thread bobbin held in their hand.

For bamboo it goes without saying it's best if the thread goes directly off the spool onto the rod. That's not the way I like to wrap thread but that method keeps the fuzzies to a minimum. The thread carriage on the left is for silk among other things) and the carriage on the right is "Thread Central" for nylon thread. It will wrap 8 threads at a time when doing diamond wraps; that's my limit:









Most of my silk is Gudebrod 00, the balance has lost the label or is some off-brand "Jumbo". And I have a box of silk thread I can't find. The stuff is so old, over 35 years?, I can't say. Interestingly enough, I kept most of my rod building supply receipts through the years and I could look it up. Geeze, my stuff is so old that many of my weave patterns are off a typewriter, before the days of computers. 

I use surgical tube or masking tape as a stop and/or 1/8" wide tape to hold the single-foot guides on until it's secured by the thread.


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## madonafly

I did find a good use for the Pearsall. Making my transformer flies.
Red Danvile thread as a base coat, then top with white Pearsall:









No coating (same thing on a rod without preserver)









Very cool effect. Try Blue Danvile thread base and cover with Yellow Pearsall...most incredible Olive.


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## wyogoob

Nice!

Yer killin' me. eyegotagitbak2wurk


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## wyogoob

I think silk is clearer than nylon relative to the thread size and finish.

The type of finish will have an effect on the final transparency of the wrap too. Some finishes are super clear, some a little yellow, and some are inherently hazy due to minute air bubbles in the product.

Here's regular nylon size "A" with 3 coats of thread preserver on the left and the exact same thread with no thread preserver on the right:









The rod finish is water-clear epoxy. The nylon thread is a little hazy.


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## Meesh

That is a killer effect on that fly, I never thought of using silk that way. I'll have to give it a shot.


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## madonafly

Yellow silk on Red...awesome orange. I like Danville or UTC for the base because it lays flat and doesn't change color when wet.


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## Mojo

Another way to build one (I haven't had the time yet) is like you mentioned, with PVC. Install a small spigot in the side at the bottom. The bottom end will be capped off of course. The spiggot will be an inch above the cap.
Thin out the spar 50/50 with your choice of thinner. Pour the spar into the tube (make sure the spiggot is off). Insert your rod piece using string, or your preferred means of suspending the section. You could cap the top also if wanted. Put a can under the spigot and open it up to a drip of your liking. SLOW DRIP. When it's (the tube) empty, your piece will be coated and dust free. Let it tack up and remove, clean out the tube by running thinner thru, or put the varnish back in (clean the spigot first).


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## Meesh

Mojo said:


> Another way to build one (I haven't had the time yet) is like you mentioned, with PVC. Install a small spigot in the side at the bottom. The bottom end will be capped off of course. The spiggot will be an inch above the cap.
> Thin out the spar 50/50 with your choice of thinner. Pour the spar into the tube (make sure the spiggot is off). Insert your rod piece using string, or your preferred means of suspending the section. You could cap the top also if wanted. Put a can under the spigot and open it up to a drip of your liking. SLOW DRIP. When it's (the tube) empty, your piece will be coated and dust free. Let it tack up and remove, clean out the tube by running thinner thru, or put the varnish back in (clean the spigot first).


Brilliant! One question though - since you will not see the finished product until it's had time to setup, is there an issue with bubbles since you can't pop them before the rod is dry?

This tactic would work very well for my dust-prone basement, so I may have to give this a shot.


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## madonafly

I said the same thing here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46938&start=20


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## Meesh

madonafly said:


> I said the same thing here:
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46938&start=20


:grin: Brilliant!! Sorry forgot about that post and since then I've been thinking harder about how I'd pull off a dip tank but haven't reviewed the conversation...


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