# How many points do you have?



## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

POLL ABOVE 


I am curious the MOST points folks have. 

This can be LE, OIAL, Antlerless, Turkey, Bear, whatever!


What pool do you have the most points in? Please share any detail and IF you have drawn any cool tags before(and how many points it took).


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## tander123 (Sep 21, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> I am curious the MOST points folks have.
> 
> This can be LE, OIAL, Antlerless, Turkey, Bear.
> 
> What pool do you have the most points in? Please share any detail and IF you have drawn any cool tags before.


17 LE Elk

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## Pokesmole (Oct 29, 2016)

4 bull elk
4 cow elk 
2 antlerless deer 
2 GS deer


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## dadams41 (Jul 9, 2013)

LE Elk 10
Bear 8
Lion 6
Moose 8
Antlerless 2
Turkey 1
GS Deer 3


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

15 cow moose
15 OIL mtn goat
0 LE elk (it was 3)
5 LE deer
4 turkey
5 doe pronghorn
4 cow elk
1 doe deer
2 bear
2 cougar
1 GS deer


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

LE Bear = 12
Cow Elk = 5
Pronghorn =7
Swan = 2
Doe MD = 3
Doe Pronghorn = 4


Gave up on OIL and with the point creep I'll never see a tag. I wont donate anymore.


Don't care to chase LE Mule Deer. (Montana's Milk River tag is $4500 and I can do that every three years) 


Turkeys, I'll get an OTC tag if I get the itch.


Last year waiting on a LE Elk. Don't think I'll apply again ?


I'd be 75 years young before I'd see another Elk tag again. Don't want to draw the tag and not be able to hoof it the woods without someone worrying about me not coming back out. :shock:


I've had my fun and harvested many animals in Utah and out of state. I'll sit on the sidelines and watch the game from there when it comes to OIL and LE Elk. It's a younger mans sport and I watched my Grandfather in Wyoming do it until he was 70. He guided other hunters (including me) for over 30 years. I believe my love for the sport and outdoors came from him. Maybe its time I pass it on to my grandkids now.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

18--Moose
4--LE Elk
3--Bear


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

Here are my totals for Utah:

Moose- 24
Bison - 1
LE Elk-5
LE Deer- 4
LE Antelope- 1
Cow elk- 1
Bighorn ewe- 1
Cougar- 12
Bear- 9
General Deer- 9
Turkey- 1
Swan- 2


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

This is always a fun thread:

1. Turkey - 4 points (I suck so bad at turkeys)
2. LE deer 7 points (so confused on what to do)
3. Antlerless deer 1 point (started over after drawing with 7, split my points with my 12 year old. That was fun!!)
4. General season deer 1 point. (Looking forward to that next year after not having a tag this year) 
5. Doe pronghorn 5 points (hunt when I feel it’s the right time) 
6. LE bull elk 0 points (drew south cache early rifle in 13 unsuccessful and I don’t want to talk about it anymore)
7. Antlerless elk 0 points (successful in 2019 my favorite hunt ever!! Back in line can’t wait for the next time!!)
8. Bull moose 15 points (a guy has to have a dream) 
9. Antlerless moose 12 points (a guy has to have a another dream.)
10. Bear 4 points (have a houndsman buddy looking forward to that in the next 5-10 years. 
11. Mountain Lion 0 points waiting period until 2022. (Successful on a great lion in 2018, houndsman buddies are the best!!!)
12. Swan 2 points (pending this years app. Feeling good about utahbigbull in my back pocket!!)


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I've got 

20 bison

10 pronghorn

I dropped out of all the rest. I'm getting too old to chase sheep, and goats. 

Drew a NR Book Cliff elk tag with 9 points where my brother in law a resident had to wait for 10 points to draw the same tag. I started on those points when they first started. 

I did have a number of moose points but from what I am seeing in Utah they are worthless. I'll head north to BC at some point and get me my moose.

I forgot my NR Book Cliff ML deer tag with 15 points.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

This is always a fun thread:


I agree! Beater than the "Doom and Gloom" threads I've been apart of starting recently. ;-)


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

My top pool is actually turkey (6 points). I've been trying to draw Central Region the entire time. Kind of crazy.

I got into big game about 5 years ago, and have 5 points or less for all those species. That being said, I've cast a broad net since then and now have nearly 90 points among all the various species/draws I go for (several different states). Many will probably never be used...

I've never drawn any permit without being in the max point pool, but between general deer, the antlerless draw, and out-of-state tags I think have drawn at least one permit every year and will probably continue to do so.


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## Chebato1950 (May 17, 2017)

turkey 5
bull elk on a waiting period
buck deer limited entr,y waitin period 
buck antelope 3
moose max on cow but drew out for bull
buffalo drew a bull tag 
antelope doe 5
elk cow drew this year with 3 
deer doe drew this year with 2 
that about it for me


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## gander311 (Dec 23, 2008)

My highest is 21 points, for bison. Not far behind that on LE elk at 18.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I have 2 general deer points
7 LE deer points
3 elk cow points. Drew a LE elk tag in 2011 with 9 points on a guaranteed draw with 7 point unit.

I'm getting close to being done with elk but with kids to help I might keep after it.

I drew my DH tag again this year. 54 years of deer hunting up until now so I'll do a couple of more years at least.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

After this year's fiasco I now have one point general elk.🙄


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

15 LE Elk
14 Bear
11 Antlerless Deer (chuckle!)
9 RM Bighorn Sheep
4 Antlerless Elk
4 Crane
3 Sharpie Grouse
3 Swan
2 Sage Grouse
1 GS Deer
Grand Total of 66 Utah Points!

Some are high by choice as I could have drawn good tags but choose to kick it down the road and some are not by choice like my OIL

Cool tags Iv'e drawn over the years-->Mountain Goat (Nanny), Cow Moose, and Cougar

Still kickin the LE elk tag down the road for now, maybe next year or maybe not


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

LE Pronghorn - 2
Doe Pronghorn - 1
Cow Elk - 3
Mt Goat - 10 (*This is the only OIAL I'm confident I'll have a chance at, well at some point in life . . .)
Desert Sheep - 1
Rock Mtn. Sheep - 2
Bison - 1
Bull Moose - 2
Cow Moose - 4
Bear - 2

I can't complain, I've had some pretty fun adventures on the tags I've had the last five years.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Turkey - 2
LE elk - 14. Drew the tag in 00. 
Cow elk - 2
Bison - 20

I lied on the poll...... 8) thought I only had 18 or 19 buffalo points. 
But on the other hand, I thought I had 15 elk points. So it's a wash. 

Good I decided to go look it up. :mrgreen:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Turkey- 1
Antlerless Deer- 3
Doe Pronghorn- 5
Antlerless Elk- 4
LE Elk- 23
Bison- 10
Bear- 6
Swan- 4

As for cool tags I’ve drawn in the past, I drew a Manti rifle general deer tag this year. I think that’s kind of cool.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Turkey- 1
> Antlerless Deer- 3
> Doe Pronghorn- 5
> Antlerless Elk- 4
> ...


Can I ask what you plan to do with those "once in a lifetime" LE elk points? I've been hanging on to mine for the day that my kid will appreciate the hunt. I'm getting close to waiting 5 years to get back in line.


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## muleydeermaniac (Jan 17, 2008)

24 points for moose
8 points buck antelope
2 points LE Deer
4 points cow elk
4 points doe antelope
3 points doe deer
6 points cow moose
2 points swan
4 points bear
4 points cougar

Drew a bear tag 6 years ago with 2 points. really lucky I think. Got to hunt with my dad before he passed. It was both our first bear hunt!

Drew a limited entry Elk 6 years ago with 13 points. Got lucky, should have taken about 18.


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## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

I cashed in a bunch of points on anterless elk and doe pronghorn last year and 13 points for a limited entry muzzleloader elk tag this year so my point totals are pretty low:
- 1 general deer
- 1 antlerless elk
- 3 bison
- 1 dedicated hunter
- 5 Wyoming pronghorn


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

19 Moose
0 LE
3 Antlerless elk
1 Antlerless Deer
13 Antlerless Moose
1 Ded Deer
1 Gen Deer
9 Wyo Antelope
9 Wyo Deer
(Not sure what to do with the Wyo Points)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I have had 3 to 4 for LE elk 4 times, at 0 now but this was my last year on the waiting period.

2 for deer a few times.

1 for antelope

5 for LE deer.

5 for bison.

2 for turkey a couple of times.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

18 Bison
12 antlerless moose
7 LE Elk
6 LE Deer


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

silentstalker said:


> Here are my totals for Utah:
> 
> Moose- 24
> Bison - 1
> ...


Forgot to say the Utah tags I have drawn.

LE Manti elk 9 points
LE book cliffs elk 0 points 
Expo Wasatch elk
LE book cliffs deer 7 points
LE antelope 2 points
Bear can't remember but around 8 points
Also my share of cow, turkey and swan tags.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

APD said:


> Can I ask what you plan to do with those "once in a lifetime" LE elk points?


Yes, you may ask! I have been taking pipe dream shots at hunting premium units in the rut. I hunted muzzleloader deer on the Blue Mountain in 2002, and that made me dream of elk hunting that unit during the rut. I've always been 2-3 points behind being able to draw that one, and have known it was a pipe dream almost that whole time, but set my sights and have stuck with it. I'm not as intent on hunting the San Juan rifle as I used to be for a few reasons, but it is still a dream. I have an open mind towards a multi-season tag on a unit closer to home now, but I'm probably two, maybe hunting seasons away from being in a situation where I'd realistically have time to hunt a multi-season tag effectively. If I have that tag, I want to make it worth while. My present, but temporary situation won't let me be in the field as much as I would want. I could do a full season, just not a full season for multiple different weapons, so I stick with the pipe dream rut hunts on premium units for now.

If I knew 20 years ago what I know today, I'd have done things differently. If I could go back I'd have drawn a Wasatch muzzy tag 15 years ago, killed the best bull I could find, and after waiting period and getting back into the elk pool, be 10 points into another muzzy tag and hunting again in the next couple years. But life doesn't give you re-dos on stuff like this, so here we are!

Ultimately, this is my plan. Unless I just get dumb lucky the next couple years, when the time is right I'll take those "once in a lifetime LE elk points" and pull the trigger on a tag and go have a "once in a lifetime heck of a good time" on an elk hunt. Hopefully that ends with killing a really nice bull. And if I get dumb lucky and draw one of these pipe dreams out there before I can spend the time on a multi-season hunt, the plan will still be the same. Go have a great time with family and friends. Hopefully kill a giant.


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

OIAL Moose - 14 (I make sure to donate my $10 yearly to this fund)
LE Elk - 8 Points
LE Bear - 4 points
Antlerless Elk - 5 points
General Season Deer - 3 points
Dedicated Hunter - 2 points
Wyoming deer - 6 points

Feel like I've got a lot of points, but realize I am way off for pretty much everything. Well unless I want to cash in my antlerless points one of these years. I am hopeful that 3 deer preference points will actually draw my unit next year.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Here are the points standings for our group. Mine are the top row. Not updated since draw results came out so add 1 to almost every field.

The one that bothers me the most is the 4 points for antlerless elk.

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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

2 LE Deer (flier points when I didn't have a plan. Wish I could put them to use on other hunts now)

2 doe deer
5 doe pronghorn
3 cow elk
5 OIAL mtn goat
11 WY elk
6 or 7 CO deer
6 or 7 CO elk
11 OK LE elk (there are elk in OK? Yes there are!)
9 OK LE deer
2 OK LE antelope

Drew cow moose in 2008. Had a great time but decided to not jump in again so others could hunt it.

Drew LE Manti muzzy elk in 2014 - awesome hunt (Vanilla, you should use those 23 points sooner than later)

Drew LE RMB in 2015 (1st alternate when a hunter turned his Stansbury tag in) - another great hunt!

Drew my UT buck pronghorn tag this year on a CWMU. Should be a great hunt after talking with the operator!

Drew a Region G deer tag in WY this year.

In no man's land with 11 points (12 after I buy another point this year) for elk in WY. May burn them on Unit 7 or a Shirleys hunt in the near future.

My CO points are just kinda there. Someday I'll figure out what to do with them. I don't think I've bought a point in a couple years.

There are elk in OK on the Witchita Mtns NWR. As OK is where I grew up, it would be a fun hunt to do, but it's kinda like drawing a moose tag here in UT. Not getting my hopes up for it anytime soon.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I've got 11- LE Deer, 6- LE pronghorn, 2- LE Elk
I wished that I would have just stuck with deer. I'd be pretty close to a high end tag right now if I would have.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

So.. Thus far 40% of people have been in at least 1 line for 15+ years. That isn't including those who just got out of a line.

I started this because of the recommends that we make ANOTHER "general" tag into a line. Isn't it concerning that almost a forth of the respondents have been in a line for over 20 years? (someone admittedly selected 15+ instead of 20 also).

*OF THOSE WITH 15+ POINTS:*

~Do you ever feel "stuck" now? Like you have to just keep going for that unit/species because you have been in the line so long?

~If it's deer or elk - have you considered going for a different unit? Why/Why not?

~If it's Moose - Has the reality that you may never (probably won't) have a tag in your life hit? Have you done the math that the FASTEST we clear out those with 20+ points is 18 years if 100% of tags went to them? It will likely take almost 30 years JUST to get through those top pool holders? (I guess the exciting news is 80% of bonus tags went to those below 20 points)

Of those with <5 points:

Are you optimistic about your hunt of a lifetime being in your pocket one day?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't believe that you would have another general tag turn into a 10+point tag such as the LE hunts. 

All they would need to do is to use the preference point system for elk like they do on general deer. A person should be able to hunt every 2-3 years, but I have nothing to back me up. That is leaving the units as is and not micro managing the elk units like they do deer.

When people say that they have 6+ points for general deer I wonder what they are saving them for.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

Critter said:


> When people say that they have 6+ points for general deer I wonder what they are saving them for.


They are the wife's or grandma's points they are looking to use in a group app to draw additional tags.


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

RandomElk16 said:


> Of those with <5 points:
> 
> Are you optimistic about your hunt of a lifetime being in your pocket one day?


I'm waitlisted for LE Elk and LE Deer - I'm positive I'll get another LE Elk tag and LE Deer tag in Utah.

I'm sitting on 10 mountain goat points. If I was the very last person in my pool to draw a tag, I'm still about 38 years away - I'll get to chase a goat when I'm 70!!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> I don't believe that you would have another general tag turn into a 10+point tag such as the LE hunts.
> 
> All they would need to do is to use the preference point system for elk like they do on general deer. A person should be able to hunt every 2-3 years, but I have nothing to back me up. That is leaving the units as is and not micro managing the elk units like they do deer.
> 
> When people say that they have 6+ points for general deer I wonder what they are saving them for.


I hunt elk every year. Why would I want a system reducing that to every 3?

Also - The deer hunt has: More tags, and fixed the preference point loophole. To go to ANY tag. I think that moved the line up a lot, but now it will settle and grow again. Especially if we have winter kill. There wouldn't be a loophole for Elk because it's 1 hunt, not 30 units. Draw or don't draw. I DO think the line would grow as fast or faster than deer. Antlerless is a better example of what those lines would look like and how fast they would grow.

Are you a NR Critter?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

CPAjeff said:


> I'm waitlisted for LE Elk and LE Deer - I'm positive I'll get another LE Elk tag and LE Deer tag in Utah.
> 
> I'm sitting on 10 mountain goat points. If I was the very last person in my pool to draw a tag, I'm still about 38 years away - I'll get to chase a goat when I'm 70!!


What units do you suspect though? You typically chase good oppty units - not premium right?

70 years old climbing Beaver in thin air high elevation - sounds like a dream :mrgreen:


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

RandomElk16 said:


> What units do you suspect though? You typically chase good oppty units - not premium right?
> 
> 70 years old climbing Beaver in thin air high elevation - sounds like a dream :mrgreen:


Yes sir, opportunity units over premium units for sure! Even if I joined the archery crowd, I could still draw some of the mid-tier units for each species in the next 30 years. Honestly, if I wanted a 360"+ bull or a 180"+ buck, I am in a position where I could buy a tag. But, I just don't place any weight on a certain score of an animal. There are folks that do, and that is just fine - we all don't have to be the same.

Ha - there is no way my 32 year old butt is climbing Beaver in thin air high elevation, let alone my 70 year old butt. Horses all the way! But, by the time I'm 70, there will probably be flying cars and no animals left to hunt.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

CPAjeff said:


> Ha - there is no way my 32 year old butt is climbing Beaver in thin air high elevation, let alone my 70 year old butt. Horses all the way! But, by the time I'm 70, there will probably be flying cars and no animals left to hunt.


Robot goats?

When you think about the luxuries people push for hunting - like long range - does it get to a point where it's just like Cabelas hunting on the Wii and you just pull the trigger from your living room and another guy actually does, collects your animal, delivers it to the butcher? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

RandomElk16 said:


> Of those with <5 points:
> 
> Are you optimistic about your hunt of a lifetime being in your pocket one day?


Was actually talking about this with my wife yesterday. For once in a lifetime stuff no, I'm not optimistic at all. 
I don't think I'll ever get a moose tag. We decided instead of even trying, sometime in the next ten years while we're both still hopefully healthy, we'll go to Canada or Alaska and pay for a hunt it. Do a big two week trip. Hunt moose, maybe caribou or a bear tag as well, do some fishing and call that our once in a lifetime hunt rather than paying into the moose pool here every year and never getting to hunt it, or drawing the tag the same year I die. She's on board, so that's our plan. Because we are both new to hunting and didn't start getting points at age 12, there's basically no chance either of us will get a Utah moose or bison tag.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> does it get to a point where it's just like Cabelas hunting on the Wii and you just pull the trigger from your living room and another guy actually does, collects your animal, delivers it to the butcher? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


That doesn't sound all that fun. Might as well just play the video game at that point.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

RandomElk16 said:


> So.. Thus far 40% of people have been in at least 1 line for 15+ years. That isn't including those who just got out of a line.
> 
> I started this because of the recommends that we make ANOTHER "general" tag into a line. Isn't it concerning that almost a forth of the respondents have been in a line for over 20 years? (someone admittedly selected 15+ instead of 20 also).
> 
> ...


I'm in the moose pool. I should draw in the next 2 years. I have felt trapped in this pool for a very long and wish I would have chosen sheep way back then, but, there wasn't much of a sheep herd and the moose were doing well.

I also have a ton of general season deer points. I don't hunt deer in Utah much but plan to use them to get myself, my son, and daughter a family hunt in the next year or two.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Why all the doom and gloom? I'm only 300 years from drawing my moose permit, it'll be here in no time!

I used to hunt cow elk every couple years but someone convinced the wildlife board that severe tag cuts were needed...now I haven't had elk meat in my freezer for 4 years.

Sure seems to be enough food on the mountain for increased sheep and cattle populations though. Strange how that works.

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Isuckathunting said:


> Was actually talking about this with my wife yesterday. For once in a lifetime stuff no, I'm not optimistic at all.
> I don't think I'll ever get a moose tag. We decided instead of even trying, sometime in the next ten years while we're both still hopefully healthy, we'll go to Canada or Alaska and pay for a hunt it. Do a big two week trip. Hunt moose, maybe caribou or a bear tag as well, do some fishing and call that our once in a lifetime hunt rather than paying into the moose pool here every year and never getting to hunt it, or drawing the tag the same year I die. She's on board, so that's our plan. Because we are both new to hunting and didn't start getting points at age 12, there's basically no chance either of us will get a Utah moose or bison tag.


It's hard to draw tags when your name isn't even in the hat. It's $10 per application. I'd imagine most hunters can swing that once a year. Don't limit yourself to possibilities just by looking at draw odds. The majority of OIL and LE tags myself, close family and friends have drawn have been in the random draw. 2/3 bison tags in our family were pulled with 5 and 1 points. They give out decent bison tag numbers every 5 or so years as well. Moose is a lost cause on paper, but I know 2 tags drawn this year with 3 and 7 points. I drew a LE elk tag this year with 3. I drew another LE elk tag in 2011 with 4. Far from the bonus draw tags. It happens.

What I'm saying is, you don't need max points to draw permits. And you certainly can't draw them when you don't apply. $10 per app is nothing.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

silentstalker said:


> I'm in the moose pool. I should draw in the next 2 years. I have felt trapped in this pool for a very long and wish I would have chosen sheep way back then, but, there wasn't much of a sheep herd and the moose were doing well.
> 
> I also have a ton of general season deer points. I don't hunt deer in Utah much but plan to use them to get myself, my son, and daughter a family hunt in the next year or two.











You are one of the few that can feel great about your chances of having a tag relatively soon - CONGRATS. Sorry you have been trapped but hopefully it's worth it when you have your hands on your bull.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

RandomElk16 said:


> *OF THOSE WITH 15+ POINTS:*
> 
> ~Do you ever feel "stuck" now? Like you have to just keep going for that unit/species because you have been in the line so long?
> 
> ...


In no mans land with LE elk & deer since I pulled one of each prior.


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## Raptorman (Aug 18, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> So.. Thus far 40% of people have been in at least 1 line for 15+ years. That isn't including those who just got out of a line.
> 
> I started this because of the recommends that we make ANOTHER "general" tag into a line. Isn't it concerning that almost a forth of the respondents have been in a line for over 20 years? (someone admittedly selected 15+ instead of 20 also).
> 
> ...


Like others have mentioned, when I started putting in, it wasn't a thing Moose were doing great. Now, I can't really switch, too far behind on all the others. Looking back, I should have switched 10 or so years ago when Moose started their decline. Oh well... not much I can do now, just hope to get lucky.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> *OF THOSE WITH 15+ POINTS:*
> 
> ~Do you ever feel "stuck" now? Like you have to just keep going for that unit/species because you have been in the line so long?
> 
> ...


Regarding general elk-->we have a limited resource and high demand. Someone is sitting out whether that be a general draw hunt waiting every other year or if we keep doing the OTC thing there are people out there who couldn't get to a computer in time and they are sitting out this year.

Both schemes have winners and losers and both are fair and not fair. I appreciate the arguments made on both sides and they both have their pluses and minuses. I have enjoyed this discussion the past few days, I have even been persuaded some by 'Niller', 'Rando', and 'MooseWeenie' to maintain the OTC elk, not fully but some :grin:

I would say if they sell out in days then keep it OTC, if they sell out in a few hours take it draw. Time will tell if that happens but I'm betting they take it to a draw this year to save the hassle--but then again Iv'e never been good at predicting the future.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I just looked and there are 180 spike tags left


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Critter said:


> I just looked and there are 180 spike tags left


Which is actually a better hunt for both opportunity to harvest, and the experience of seeing big bad*** bulls.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Which is actually a better hunt for both opportunity to harvest, and the experience of seeing big bad*** bulls.


Maybe for you! HAHAHA! :grin:


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## Bradthorup (May 27, 2018)

15 moose
3 gen deer
Waiting list LE elk (2018)
4 bison


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Airborne said:


> Maybe for you! HAHAHA! :grin:


Spike units are the ones that are actually managed for elk. If you wanted to kill an elk every year - a spike unit is a much easier place for people to consistently do that.

If you kill any bull every year - that's great! That's still a much bigger anomaly than someone killing spike every year.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Now up to 47% of folks being in a line for at least 15 years. 

That's sad imo :-?


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

This is my favorite thread


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Raptorman said:


> 19 Moose
> 0 LE
> 3 Antlerless elk
> 1 Antlerless Deer
> ...


Carry me next year on a Wyoming hunt or two. I have 3 deer points in WY so I can help there but I burned all my antelope points on a low class unit so I could take my dad on a hunt.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Moose 11
General deer 0, drew in 2020
LE deer 1, 2020 first year putting in.
Cow elk 4, haven't applied for tag in a few due to other tags.
Cow moose 8
Doe deer 2, drew in 2019
Doe antelope 2, drew in 2019
Bear 6
Turkey 4
Swan 5
Crane 5
Sage grouse 2
Greater sage grouse 2
LE elk 0, drew in 2019 with 9 points and I'm out of the LE elk game.
WY antelope 0, drew in 2020
WY deer 3
WY elk 0, drew general season 2020
AZ elk 7, last hope for one more good elk hunt
AZ deer 3, drew in 2017
AZ antelope 7
MT antelope 3


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## Xbow123 (Mar 7, 2017)

Moose: 18 (only 33 years old so maybe there’s a chance??)
LE elk: waiting period drew wasatch mid with with 12 points a few years ago
LE deer: 2
LE pronghorn: 3
Turkey: 1
Bear: 12 (no idea what to do with those)
Cow elk: 2
Doe deer: 1
Doe antelope: 1
Wyoming deer: 2
Wyoming antelope: 2
Wyoming elk: drew general this year

Hopefully young enough to cycle through a couple more LE tags here, maybe get lucky on moose, and a few more out of state tags.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Xbow123 said:


> Moose: 18 (only 33 years old so maybe there's a chance??)


There are 3000 folks with 19+ points for elk.

To be guaranteed you are looking at ~30 years at minimum but there IS a chance.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> There are 3000 folks with 19+ points for elk.
> 
> To be guaranteed you are looking at ~30 years at minimum but there IS a chance.


There's alot of wives, mothers, grandmothers etc in those numbers. For a while, two women within 3 houses of me in 2 directions were both top tier elk applicants. They didnt hunt, but their husbands had been putting them in for over 23 years. IIRC, One burned the points to group with a son, who then drew and shot a 385 bull. I think they just "ate" her tag (she doesnt hunt)... I'll have to ask when I talk to them in a couple weeks (daughter just announced yesterday she is getting married and we got invited). I guess she could have mentored off her tag instead of throwing it away, but I think they just left it unfilled.

Sooo you have to take a small grain of salt when looking at these numbers. They give you an idea of whats going on as much as the covid19 infection numbers... which isnt much.

-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

DallanC said:


> There's alot of wives, mothers, grandmothers etc in those numbers. For a while, two women within 3 houses of me in 2 directions were both top tier elk applicants. They didnt hunt, but their husbands had been putting them in for over 23 years. IIRC, One burned the points to group with a son, who then drew and shot a 385 bull. I think they just "ate" her tag (she doesnt hunt)... I'll have to ask when I talk to them in a couple weeks (daughter just announced yesterday she is getting married and we got invited). I guess she could have mentored off her tag instead of throwing it away, but I think they just left it unfilled.
> 
> Sooo you have to take a small grain of salt when looking at these numbers. They give you an idea of whats going on as much as the covid19 infection numbers... which isnt much.
> 
> -DallanC


I trust DWR population counts AND applicant pools more than I trust covid numbers.


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## TmTmTl (Apr 27, 2019)

16 Bear points


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

50% of votes have at least 15 points in at least 1 pool..

What a system


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## 270win (Sep 16, 2010)

Not enough to worry about till i'm in my 60s


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> 50% of votes have at least 15 points in at least 1 pool..
> 
> What a system


I still think it's the best system out there.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

I would have to mostly agree with Vanilla, Utah's system is pretty darn good 

There are folks in Idaho's Full Random who have been putting in for the same unit for 25 years, have never drawn and a system like Utah's would have given them a tag at year 15. Winners and losers in all systems.

If I am ranking draw systems I would go:

#1 Nevada's 'points squared' is the best, points are squared, your drawing rank is per species, you have 5 choices, it's a cool system and everyone has a shot. Lose your points when you draw any choice 

#2 Utah's half random and half bonus point system, gives everyone a chance while also rewarding folks who have been in the system. 

#3 Full Random like Idaho, very democratic and no point 'buttt plugs', also get rid of some entitlement attitude but there are plenty of jaded old timers out there who have never drawn and have put in for decades

Dead last is Preference points like Colorado. Although preference points have their place when everyone can move through the system in a few years like our general and antlerless hunts then it's ok and Colorado has plenty of those hunts but overall for limited style hunts with high demand I do not like preference points

I would say that the very best is so many animals on the landscape that everything is OTC with no limits on tags. Everyone's dream right there--just gotta move to Evingston!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Airborne said:


> I would have to mostly agree with Vanilla, Utah's system is pretty darn good
> 
> There are folks in Idaho's Full Random who have been putting in for the same unit for 25 years, have never drawn and a system like Utah's would have given them a tag at year 15. Winners and losers in all systems.
> 
> ...


Depends on the species and person. I know a lot of people who prefer Wyoming, Idaho, and Colorado to Utah's.

I find the Idaho one hard to believe when almost every year non res can buy awesome control tags in December OTC.

I guess it depends what your idea of opportunity and trophy is. My BIL couldn't get a Utah archery deer tag this year but we are hunting Idaho. Most of the state is open, and we have the option to shoot a number of different predators on the tag as well as go to N. Idaho and shoot whitetail in some units. Their OTC elk and deer are both exceptional.

Every example I see about other states being bad is the "one specific unit" example. We have that too - San Juan, Henry, Pauns and they take as many or more points than most the state. It's the 80-90% of the rest of the system that I think about.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> I still think it's the best system out there.


Full Random.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Having never applied or hunted in Nevada, I’m not real familiar with their system. The idea intrigues me, however.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

RandomElk16 said:


> Full Random.


Nope. I think full random is stupid. I don't think the people that like it are stupid, though. I just don't like that type of system, especially when people have invested 27 years into the current system. You simply can't just get rid of it. And even if we hadn't been under this system for three decades, I'd still disapprove of full random. I agree with Airborne that to only system worse than that is the preference point system.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Vanilla said:


> You simply can't just get rid of it.


Lol.. This line of thinking is standard for the government/it's programs.

That's why out of 330 Million Americans we have only two candidates for president, and both are 73+ old white men. The system is there too long and too hard to change.

That's why the gov continues to rack up debt and do things the stupid way no matter how many times it's been pointed out.

Outside of that, I get your point. At some time though - there has to be a cap. The fact that we will break 30 points required in the next couple years is getting absolutely absurd. There will be people in our life that literally have 40+ points. There has to be an end point.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

It’s interesting to me that someone will put in for an elk unit for 20+ years and complain about never drawing a tag when there are tons of great units they could have drawn 2, or three tags within that same time period. Don’t be so stubborn, change your application strategy and you’ll hunt more frequently. Or at least if you’re going to make the conscious decision to be stubborn and apply for 2 decades to hunt once, don’t complain. There are other options, after all


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I used to think Utah had a pretty slick system. But then point creep kept ballooning and ballooning. While I admit there's a tough luck side to a true random draw, it is the only system that sustainably treats applicants equally. 

But I also really love living somewhere that I don't have to rely on the draw to have more tags in my pockets than I could ever use in one year. Enjoy your dregs, peasants


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