# Why are we so reluctant to share info?



## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

20 years. That's how long it can take for you to get "the one"... to land a piece of paper that has felt more like a myth, an urban legend. You start to feel like the odds of going to the moon are greater.

When the tag comes, the relief you had anticipated never comes. It actually heightens. After all this time, I have it! WHAT IF I BLOW IT?!!

My dad has felt this 2x. Last year, when he had to turn back in his Henry Mountain ML Muley tag.. and again this year, when things came full circle and he landed that piece of paper again. Do I get a guide? What equipment do I need? Does the truck need new tires? How many backup ATV's, guns, bino's, etc... should I take?

All of this leads people to often consider guides. I won't knock guides. They are part of the industry and they are trying to make a living like the rest of us. Let's be honest, they love this sense of uncertainty that comes with a premium, or often times ONCE in your life tag.. It means money for them. How much money is enough though?

Once in a lifetime, or tags that might as well be (Henry's, San Juan, etc...) make me laugh. People are often so reserved to share info, but what are they protecting? If you hunted it before, you probably won't have the same tag. If you are hunting it in the future, the animals will likely not be the same, the patterns different, etc... Even with a lesser desired LE unit.. Maybe I deer hunt there, or spike elk, or any tag that isn't the LE... I put in for an entirely different LE unit. What holds me back from telling? Having a hunter come to my space for a year? Having someone tag a bigger OIAL animal then I did when I hunted it the season before? Is it that I don't want to ruin mossbacks payday on an animal they follow around for months and stake claim to?

Maybe a lot of things move to PM. Maybe not. I saw a service that sets trail cams in areas, and you can get pics and GPS coordinates. Great idea! My dad has said time and time again that people who give you some map help, or details would be worth paying some money. The $7000 to have a guide, and the extra cost to have friends of family tag along, isn't worth it. I can't help but think that trail cam company will struggle with vandalism from a few major guide companies or individuals who frequent the area, simply to help keep a secret.

This isn't Pandora's box. The hunter has the tag, they will be there anyway. What's an act of kindness? What's helping someone have the hunt of a lifetime, without the bill of a lifetime?

The question this all leads to, what holds you back from helping others?

No incident sparked this. I often see "the elk are there... there are big bucks..." but when it comes time to point, people back off. Some of you are the most helpful people I have ever met (ya know, via the net or whatever), so maybe you can share WHY you are so willing to help. Did someone extend the courtesy to you?

Thanks for reading this long write-up. I have just been thinking about a number of things this season. Not having an archery tag this year will have me on the mountain helping others with a tag pursue the animals I would have pursued. Why? Why not! It's the journey right?


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## utahbigbull (May 9, 2012)

I'll take some Manti Muzzy Elk info for my sons hunt this year if ya have any?? Probably my last chance to be actively chasing screaming bulls with my son before I get too old to do so! I have hunted the mountain for 18 years but will still take what I can get.. 

But to your question, I believe a lot of people work hard to gain the knowledge they have and are afraid of handing info out in fear of that special place they have found being over hunted by the word getting out. Then when their opportunity does come, their chances have decreased somewhat. Just like I know certain areas of the Manti well, I can see if I had been giving out precise coordinates where I have always found herds with good bulls, chances are, they possibly wouldn't be around for our this year when "we got the one tag" we have been waiting for. Tell one guy, that guy tells two, on and on. I have taken one "friend" to a honey hole for spikes one year, and within two years, he was inviting his whole family down and hunting in it. Just my two cents.


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## SidVicious (Aug 19, 2014)

I am all about helping people out and giving info, but I usually limit it to general information and starting points. I have been burned by people before, and you can bet I will not be giving away my best spots to people over the internet. As far as limited entry and once in a lifetime, I am usually still reserved on giving away good spots because either myself or friends and family are still in the running for tags, and I still want to be able to hunt those spots with without the pressure that can come from word of mouth. I'll continue to help out as I can, but to some random person that gets on a forum and posts one time just because they drew a tag in a unit that they know nothing about, they will not get my best information.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

This is along the lines of a post I started a few weeks ago but mine was more about general info.
I agree with you on LE or OIL tags, I find I just don't have any info to share for these tags. I don't hunt any LE elk units so I don't really now anything about them. I know where a few moose hang out but nothing worth a OIL tag. I suspect that most guys are in the same boat as myself, maybe the guy that hunts spike in a LE unit might have some info on the elk but here again they might be leading others to there honey hole.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

It depends.
OIL tags I don't normally have a problem giving pretty detailed information if I have any but try to do it in PM's.
LE tags I might be a little less forthcoming depending on the species and area. I have a tendency to try and help out of state people more than locals who should have an easier time doing their own scouting.
The idea of less pressure or saving an animal on a OIL or a LE unit that is basically a OIL event is ridiculous. There is a reason they are that way to begin with.
As for GS I have offered some information to select individuals and so far I have not been "burned" that I'm aware of.
As for the Henries all I've got is there is a road that goes across the the upper reaches and several access roads to get to it. My one trip there we saw deer and one that was looking like it might turn out good. Lots of places to look a long ways and reasonably little water.
Hope your dad has fun. Tags like that are a whole different rollercoaster ride.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

As long as I don't have a tag for the area and animal that someone wants info for and I know something about that area I'll share it. But if I have a tag in my pocket for the same area you are going to get very limited info out of me on it. 

As for a OIL hunt if I can help out I do it. I used to hunt the Henry Mountains every year back when it was a general hunt and have been on a dozen bison hunts down there so I know a little about the area that I can share.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Your post made me feel a little sad. I'd hope your Dad feels NO pressure. He has the best deer tag he could hope for, so go scout it, hunt it, and enjoy it. I imagine he can shoot the biggest buck he has ever shot-- with or without help. What could be better! 

As for the question, take the Henry Mtns for example-- I'd say look at the areas around Mt Ellen, then down to Pennell and wherever it burned. That should get someone started. Or do they want specific info on a specific buck? Those are two very different things.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

I have contributed moose info whenever applicable, only ever been fishing in any of the LE/OIL elk areas so I have nothing to offer there.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I feel I help out plenty but I know a lot of people get turned off by the "trolls" out there and they have stopped posting all together.
Or those that give out info. over and over and never get a post hunt report back, so they stop spending energy helping those who seem not to appreciate the help.


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## deljoshua (Jul 29, 2013)

I can see it from both sides now. When you are first trying to get into hunting and have no friends or family that hunt it is very difficult to know where to start. I have literally taught myself everything I know about hunting except for the tips and advice from those on this forum (thank you). As far as where to go I picked a mountain and have scouted it over and over and over in order to know where and what is on the mountain. I have passed moose info on to some who have had a tag but I would be very reluctant to take or show anybody where I go. Then again I don't know that anybody would be super interested in the little bucks I know of. If somebody I knew was just getting in to hunting I would take them with me because I have been there when it comes to not knowing where to start and having nobody to help. 
Never been to the Henerys so if you want somebody to go with you and help scouting let me know and I'll come help!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't mind sharing generalities or tactics but fear that even though they have an LE tag that I will be waiting years for, they'll like my area as much as I do and it will become their families' annual stop.

Public land hunting is tough and crowded in this state, to add more to it intentionally is just counter intuitive for me.

I have no honey holes whatsoever. I hunt an entire drainage each year and work hard to escape the crowds and find game. Some years it works and some it doesn't.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I'm reluctant to _ask_ for info. Right now I'm sitting on a bison tag and have a ton of questions I'd like to get answered, and would love to talk to someone who has hunted the Book Cliffs for bison, specifically the Wildhorse Bench unit. For some reason, I have a hard time asking for help.

I'm reluctant to give out specific info on the GS areas I hunt, but I'd be happy to help out with desert sheep and bison (hopefully, if I figure it out) after this year.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Brisket, I think that one problem that you have with your bison tag is that it is still a relative new hunt out there. 

I do know a lot of people that just blunder into them at times out there and I have a brother in law that has a cabin up on the top of the Viniquin that had one wander through his front yard. 

However I would love to have your problem. I have only been putting in for those buggers ever since 1969. I did miss a few years when they required the payment up front and I had turned into a non resident but I am trying to catch up.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

It took me 5 years of blood and sweat to find areas on the open bull units to get where I am consitintly into bull elk. 
I won't be giving out GPS coordinates to these places anytime soon as they are hard earned.
General areas and advice how to hunt the areas sure. 
The best part of hunting is earning it. their are a lot of other resources out there to learn about an area other then creating a user name and asking people for spots. most likely the info they give you is gonna be opposite of where they hunt anyways.
A once in a lifetime tag could be a total different situation as most people who don't draw have many more years to wait. 
So a little advice or shove in the right direction is totally different then area someone plans to hunt on a yearly or semi yearly area.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

The fun part about hunting is trying to figure things out. Odd as it may sound, I'm sometimes not inclined to give specific info because that takes some of the fun out of the hunting process. I try to give enough advice to get someone started, though, if I think I can be helpful. And if someone has been trying awhile and needs a push in the right direction, I'm usually fine to help in that case as well.

I have given specific advice (through PM) on the unit my family hunts LE elk on, and I'd be happy to again since I probably won't see my tag for at least 10 years. I have no problem helping others in the meantime. Same with OIAL - if I see something, I'll pass it on.

I think part of the reason some people won't share info on LE/OIAL tags is because they often see those animals while they're hunting general or antlerless seasons. If I saw a nice Wasatch elk in my deer honey hole, I might be reluctant to share because I wouldn't want a hunter to discover all the deer there.

It's the same way with a place I know where there are TONS of Jackrabbits. I don't hunt Jackrabbits, but I'll never tell people where it is because I don't want them to discover the Hungarian partridge that also live there. But there are a few other Jackrabbit spots I know of that I wouldn't have any problem sharing.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Tons of great posts!

I ABSOLUTELY feel how most do in regards to GS. Those are the yearly spots, the ones we take our kids to and grandkids to for their first forkie! Or for their first monster. 

I share GS spots with close friends, but they are usually spots that take so much work to get to most regret going with me after anyways haha. I have been fortunate to have a few help me along the way as I transitioned to bow hunting, and after spending more time alone in the field with a bow, then I probably had spent in the field for years combined with a ML, I guess I feel the need to pass it along. (Those darn 3.5 month bow seasons destroy my legs!)

The LE/OIAL was more my point. It wasn't even to solicit info to the Henry's. More so that as I dig for info on that, and the other LE tags close friends have gotten I just saw how quiet it was. I think the deer or spike honey hole info is valid. Then again, if I had good bulls where I hunted spike's I would have one of you with a tag probably just come with! There aren't people who hunt year after year on the Henry's, except the guides. Some people may be lucky enough to hunt the San Juan year over year. Many people participate in the Wasatch Cow Killing Fest. I know why they want to keep things private, just was curious as I know this is a diverse subject. I am glad I brought it up because the replies have been great!


I think we are all reluctant to help the "Member since last tuesday" because they usually end their career with <5 posts and no follow up.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

A few years ago a guy PM'd me about his Vernon deer hunt from a couple years earlier. He told me that he was sorry for the late follow up but life had got busy. He was very grateful for my info. and he showed me pictures of him and his wife with their bucks, which were about 29-30" wide. That sure made me feel good that day.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I also agree with the took time to find my spot posts. 
I hadn't really hunted big game in Utah until 6 years ago, I hunted a couple rifle seasons back in 1999 and 2000 where I couldn't take all the people so I focused on waterfowl. Just so happens about 7 years ago I went camping in an area during archery season and noticed the lack of hunters. This got me thinking and looking at regulations and 2 weeks later I had loaded the family in the rig and drove up to this area opening weekend of muzzy season just to see how crazy it was and do a little fishing. I found the muzzy season wasn't all that crazy so I applied for tags and spent the summer camping trips in this area to scout around. Over the last 6 years I have been hunting and summer camping in the area trying to figure the animals out. My area isn't anything special for deer or big bull's but it's fun to hunt with light hunter pressure during the muzzy season. Plenty of rifle hunters know about the area as well.
My point being I spent 6 years, countless camping trips and a bunch of gas money to figure out what I have figured out about the area. I realized that public land hunting takes time to figure out and I put in the time.
I think a lot of people posting there questions want and think they deserve instant gratification. From some of the posts I see on this and other forums these new hunter think there going to go out there first year and kill something, as successful as I have been these past years I hardly ever think I'm going to kill something when I head out but maybe that's the expect the worst hope for the best mentality I run with most the time.
When I started hunting big game in Utah 6 years ago I got my buddy into it as well who had never hunted before. It took him 6 seasons to tag a deer, not that he didn't have chances before and he even missed a couple shots over the 6 years but his inexperience in the woods and hunting in general got in his way multiple times. He kept plodding along learning from his mistakes and final made it happen last year with a fine 4 point buck.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

I see it two different ways. 
One the person gets the tag and knows nothing about the hunt or the area. So he searches the web and finds all these forums and starts asking for help. This person will not find much in the way of help as people feel he hasn't done enough work on his own to warrant another to offer up help. 

The other gets the tag works thier ass off scouting and planning and visiting the areas. And has the proof he has exhausted all his resources. Then goes to forums and asks for help and in his questions others can tell he has put in the maximum effort and just needs some advise. This person from what I have seen will get the help he has asked for and maybe more than expected. 

It all comes down to people seen the hard work and are willing to help that guy. Not the guy scouting from his computer desk


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

Even on an LE/OIL area, hotspotting can become an issue. A good spot can quickly become overrun to be a poor spot if info is shared too widely. It's best, IMO, to share info to limited audiences.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

This is the third thread on this topic that I can remember on this forum in the last several weeks. Seems to be a hot topic lately! 

To share, or not to share: That is the question. Whether tis nobler of the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of tag soup, or to take arms with a guide against a sea of weary game....to die, to sleep. To sleep, or to get up and hunt. Aye, there's the rub.


TOTP!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I'll share...for duck hunting go to Ogden Bay, absolutely unbeatable in my opinion.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Once in a lifetime tags and certain LE tags, can be a different story but people always have the fear that the person they are giving information to might tell several people and the following year, you see 10 extra people in that area. A lot of people are respectful and understand the golden rule of silence when shared information but some don't. Also a lot of people hunt general deer in certain areas where people draw LE tags for elk and they don't want people on their LE hunts finding a new general deer spot for them and all of their buddies. But for the most part people are will to help out through private messages to those that are willing to do the work and that just don't show up asking for handouts on here. Also the way people ask helps, maybe offer to swap info for other things in a kind of trade sorta deal. 

But all waterfowl information, including condition reports should be shared only through pm's!!!!!!!!!! The fewer flat brimmers out there looking for late season honey holes, the better!!!!!! Those willing to do the work and risk the drive to find out conditions should be rewarded with fewer people out there!! 
That was for fowlmouth


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Flat Brim. Ogden Bay. Dike. Flock Shoot.

Got it.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I guess I'm a bit weird (actually, I already knew that one...). If it is a spot that I figured out and I see somebody asking for help in that unit, I'll readily share what I know with them. If it is a spot I was told about, that is up to the person who told me about it as to whether it can be shared or not. If I see a guy asking for what unit to put in on his first post, I'll try to ask him to give up some details about what he's looking for and then recommend a handful of units; then if they get the tag and I know something to maybe help I'll try to follow up with more details. I have for some people gone so far as to say, "Get to X ridge by X o'clock if the weather is like this, go to the second clump of aspens and watch the meadow to the east." I just find my time on the mountain to be more enjoyable when we are not competing with each other as tag holders, and I enjoy seeing others have success while hunting. Even if that success is the 400" 7x7 that I had been sitting on for 3 1/2 days all day waiting for him to step out, only to have somebody show up in the area while I'm eating my sandwich at the truck and literally set up in my dirt butt chair and shoot that bull a few hours later. Did it hurt? Yep. Did I want that bull? Yep. Was I glad she was able to shoot an incredible bull and have that memory? Yep. Now her kids are going to grow up looking at a giant bull, and hopefully have the desire to find one like mommy's someday. 

To me, it doesn't matter if it is GS, LE, or OIAL. I figure the best way to ensure that my kids, grandkids, etc all get the chance to enjoy hunting is to get and keep as many people interested and emotionally connected to hunting as possible.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> I guess I'm a bit weird (actually, I already knew that one...). If it is a spot that I figured out and I see somebody asking for help in that unit, I'll readily share what I know with them. If it is a spot I was told about, that is up to the person who told me about it as to whether it can be shared or not. If I see a guy asking for what unit to put in on his first post, I'll try to ask him to give up some details about what he's looking for and then recommend a handful of units; then if they get the tag and I know something to maybe help I'll try to follow up with more details. I have for some people gone so far as to say, "Get to X ridge by X o'clock if the weather is like this, go to the second clump of aspens and watch the meadow to the east." I just find my time on the mountain to be more enjoyable when we are not competing with each other as tag holders, and I enjoy seeing others have success while hunting. Even if that success is the 400" 7x7 that I had been sitting on for 3 1/2 days all day waiting for him to step out, only to have somebody show up in the area while I'm eating my sandwich at the truck and literally set up in my dirt butt chair and shoot that bull a few hours later. Did it hurt? Yep. Did I want that bull? Yep. Was I glad she was able to shoot an incredible bull and have that memory? Yep. Now her kids are going to grow up looking at a giant bull, and hopefully have the desire to find one like mommy's someday.
> 
> To me, it doesn't matter if it is GS, LE, or OIAL. I figure the best way to ensure that my kids, grandkids, etc all get the chance to enjoy hunting is to get and keep as many people interested and emotionally connected to hunting as possible.


I'll agree with you 100 percent jc, and add that is perhaps the best post you have ever made, in MHO...


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

stillhunterman said:


> I'll agree with you 100 percent jc, and add that is perhaps the best post you have ever made, in MHO...


I think, mayhaps, you're not a fan, 
of a talented, witty, poetic man.

Or rather it's the words you see,
that cause you grief, do you agree?

Aww, I love you too man!:O--O:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

J-cake's post is very close to how I feel about sharing hunting and fishing info, though I usually do it with PM's. But one thing that's different is that I'm not a trophy hunter so I don't spend much time scouting, patterning, filming, photographing trophy animals, and I say so to anyone that asks for info. And that approach eliminates for me most of the caution others have about sharing "honey holes" (and, unfortunately, it sometimes turn people off, but that's their problem, not mine). If I see tracks, droppings, beds, rubs, etc, I know they are there and that's all I need to know. I've even taken some people to some of my setups or given them maps and info. It's no big deal to me.

And anyone is welcome to use my treestands or blinds if I'm not going to use them. All I ask is that they take care of it and call me so they know my schedule. (I always leave a note with my phone number.) 

As far as overcrowding goes, I actually like it when people keep the animals moving. I can't get around as much anymore and I'd rather the animals (and other hunters) do most of the work. But if it gets too crowded, even for me, I just go elsewhere. It's a bit harder to do now with the smaller units, but I manage most of the time and it gives me an opportunity to see and enjoy new territory.

Hunting (and fishing and camping) for me is a chance to get away from the hassles, pressures and challenges life sometimes throws at all of us and I don't need to take those with me, nor do I need someone else creating situations or any more regulations that impose those negatives on my outdoor activities. 

Does it always work out? For me, yes, because I can always find another place and time to hunt the animals I like, the way I like. For others? Sometimes not, but that's usually because they're after trophies and those big antlered animals are pretty rare and it becomes a "problem" when others don't cooperate the way they are supposed to. That's unfortunate, but it's their doing, not mine!


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Why would anyone put in for a tag of any kind, without knowing the area??? Makes no sense to me. :x


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

taxidermist said:


> Why would anyone put in for a tag of any kind, without knowing the area??? Makes no sense to me. :x


People do it all the time. Somewhere they hear that the biggest bucks or bulls come from hunt XYZ so they just put in for it.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> Why would anyone put in for a tag of any kind, without knowing the area??? Makes no sense to me. :x


Like Critter said, happens all the time. I'm one of them. I don't put in for a unit because I 'heard' there are lots of big bucks roaming the hills there, or the herds are in awesome shape. I do it because seeing new places, hunting new areas has always been just plain fun. It helps me keep a better pulse on how not only wildlife is doing, but how how the habitat is doing in that area. I log any and all info for future reference.

I'm in the final 'stage' of my hunting life and look at hunting with different eyes than younger hunters. I think most who come on the internet looking for advise aren't after monster bucks, but simply need help finding a starting place. Of those folks, I also think most of them are going about it bassackwards. If one studies and understands the game animal they are hunting, they will become a much better hunter, and can then determine the topography that best suits the critters they are after. That's where the boots on the ground comes in, in locating the places buckies hang out. Find the 10 percent of the habitat where 90 percent of the bucks hang out and there ya go. Pretty easy to notice that hunters who are dedicated to strickly hunting mature, big bucks never ask for help on the internet, its always the guys/gals who are just looking to kill a deer. Why not give em some help if one can?

Back in the day, pre-internet, "we" would gain intel at the local sporting goods store where we bought our tags over the counter, or the gas station where we filled up before hitting the hills. From sheep herders and ranchers out tending their herds, from fishers and bird hunters we met when out scouting the areas we might be hunting in. No different than the internet, its just faster and more convenient on the web, lol...

As a whole, hunters are sure an 'emotional' group...


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

taxidermist said:


> Why would anyone put in for a tag of any kind, without knowing the area??? Makes no sense to me. :x


Because they can draw it.

I've put in for areas without knowing them and I even went OTC to Idaho one year based on the harvest success.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

taxidermist said:


> Why would anyone put in for a tag of any kind, without knowing the area??? Makes no sense to me. :x


For the same reason they book a vacation trip (not a business trip) to Europe or Asia or anywhere else. It's the adventure that's important, not the outcome.


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

taxidermist said:


> Why would anyone put in for a tag of any kind, without knowing the area??? Makes no sense to me. :x


I do it all the time, especially with out-of-state tags. This year, I applied for a Montana bighorn sheep tag in unit 680 (upper Missouri Breaks), arguably the most legendary sheep unit in the lower 48. Odds of a nonresident drawing it average around 1 in 2,500, and mine were much worse since I only had one point. Probably pushing 1 in 10,000.

Now tell me, does it make sense for me to take a trip all the way to Montana to scout for sheep and learn the area when those are my odds? No, not in my opinion. I had a plan to make it work if I did draw (in this case, hire a guide). The plan is the important part.

If a guy comes to the forum and starts researching, asking questions, etc. right after he draws in May, then I don't see a reason to be critical. He probably planned on putting some work in to figure things out when he drew, and I can respect that he's working on things 3+ months in advance. If he comes to the forum 3 days before the season starts and asks for GPS coordinates or hotspots because he didn't find what he was looking for on his first scouting trip, he didn't plan very well, and I can understand why people aren't very sympathetic.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Why do people put in for a tag they don't know the area? How on earth would anyone ever gain knowledge on any topic without diving in the first time? Everyone has gone into an area for the first time before, even Taxidermist. I didn't think that was such a weird concept? I guess I'll ask, what made you go into the areas you currently hunt the first time?


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## CROC (Sep 12, 2007)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Because they can draw it.
> 
> I've put in for areas without knowing them and I even went OTC to Idaho one year based on the harvest success.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's how I am hunting deer this year....


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have always like to go into new areas on a general tag that you can usually pick up every year or every other year. But with a LE or OIL tag it is better that you know the area before you start accumulating points to put in for that unit. At least that way you have a general idea of what is in that unit and not just going by what someone said down at Sportsman's Warehouse or Cabela's.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Critter said:


> I have always like to go into new areas on a general tag that you can usually pick up every year or every other year. But with a LE or OIL tag it is better that you know the area before you start accumulating points to put in for that unit. At least that way you have a general idea of what is in that unit and not just going by what someone said down at Sportsman's Warehouse or Cabela's.


Before you even start accumulating points? So you go learn an area in anticipation of hunting it sometime in the next 10 to infinity years? I have to respectfully disagree on learning it BEFORE you start building points. Build points now, or you won't even hunt later.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I meant that in a general term. 

If you are planning on putting in for a area on a LE or OIL hunt get to know it by hunting it as you are gaining points. Granted if you are putting in for bison in the Henry Mountains or even the Book Cliffs it will be hard to draw a tag to hunt deer but just about all the other units you can do it. 

People need to get out of their comfort zone. I know of hunters that have never hunted anything besides one canyon on the Manti. Deer, or elk they just hunt one canyon and have done well, but they have no idea of what there is outside of that canyon or where to go if they put in for a LE hunt besides the Manti where they can hunt their one canyon.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I know I am late to the party on this last page, but I do disagree with LE tags and knowing the area super well. Only because these units can take a long time to draw, and if you get to a point where you can go for the best, why not? I know S. Cache really well, but I have enough points to draw the Manti. Never been there, but friends and family have, it is a new place so the adventure will be great, and they have more elk and better elk. Maybe I am crazy. I know what S. Cache has to offer me. There are great bulls. But for me, it would feel like a meat hunt, not an adventure. I think that's why I fell in love with archery. It drags me all over the general unit, then all over the extended. To places I have never been. When I think I have the rut patterns dialed, they change the next year. I don't have a high country honey hole, and when I think I find one the weather changes the next year and it isn't one.

I live in Northern Utah, I spend tons of time on my general units I hunt year after year. Deer areas, elk areas, SxS trips.... I can't go to southern utah all the time. The average hunter isn't Cameron Hanes... It's Joe the plumber, or Bob the accountant, or Jim the salesman with 4 kids. The pursuit of monsters, and adventure, should still be available to them. I get it, Joe, Bob, and Jim can't rely on others for help. I guarantee without help they do their best to make due... but a helping hand never hurts.


That reminds me of a C. Hanes post the other day. Big old bull.. People all over IG talking about his pursuit and determination..... It was a bull on Deseret. Where he is going again this year. I know, an elk with a bow is always hard. But if you get paid to shoot a bow, and go on a CWMU like that... well.... 

Anyways, it made me chuckle. I think it applies here, because Joe, Jim, and Bob have been waiting for 10+ years at a chance for an animal like that, so they put in for a solid unit. Maybe they haven't been there a lot, because this adventure isn't the norm. It's a truly special opportunity for them.

I would love to help them land that once-in-a-lifetime-would-cost-over-20K-thanks-for-paying-underarmour-Bull!


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## JC HUNTER (May 18, 2015)

I read this forum almost daily but I rarely post information, mainly because my hunting knowledge if very minimal and my success is much less. I've had ample opportunities to kill deer over the years but I always hold out looking for a mature buck which usually ends up with me eating tag soup. I'm not a trophy hunter by any means, I just don't want to shoot a young deer and have my hunt be over. I look forward to it all year and I hate when it's over. 

That being said, a few weeks ago I decided that I would make a greater commitment to participate on the forum. I don't have a lot to offer, but I can put in my 2 cents every now and again. I've never really asked for help while hunting mostly because I enjoy learning it myself. I'm also very stubborn and I usually have to make my own mistakes to learn....at least that's what my wife keeps telling me. 

Although I hate asking for help, I know that I'll need it if I ever draw my bear or bison tags. I've never had the opportunity to tag along with someone else on either of those hunts and I know absolutely nothing about hunting either species. When that time comes, I don't want to be the person on here with 5 posts asking for help when I've never contributed to the forum. 

I guess in a nut shell. I'm going to try and be more helpful with general information and hopefully that good karma with come back to me in the future.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

JC, 

It's always good to get different perspectives from a wide variety of hunters, from novice to expert. The hunting world is so diverse now that it entails not only hunting, but conservation, environmentalism, politics, activism, and a host of other things. Your perspective is more than welcome. Best of luck to you!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

JC Hunter, the best proven method of racking up Karma for hunting is to post on the forum and make sure we know what tags (species and unit) you are applying for and with how many points. Guaranteed Karma boost for that special moment we all live for every May!


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

johnnycake said:


> JC Hunter, the best proven method of racking up Karma for hunting is to post on the forum and make sure we know what tags (species and unit) you are applying for and with how many points. Guaranteed Karma boost for that special moment we all live for every May!


Dude! He reads this forum daily. I doubt he missed the thread. My guess- he isn't falling for that ****.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Ok, you guys are making me feel guilty. I'll tell you where I've been seeing all those big elk. 


It's over at...... awe never mind, maybe next year.;-)


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

ridgetop said:


> Ok, you guys are making me feel guilty. I'll tell you where I've been seeing all those big elk.
> 
> It's over at...... awe never mind, maybe next year.;-)


I'll wait


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## Arkie (Jun 6, 2017)

Great thread! OK, I am one of those who asked for help. (and got it) I live 1200 miles away and I'll admit we probably should have been spike hunting the area at least some during the 14 years it took to draw the tag. Here's the deal, it's hard to leave a GS area where you have spent a ton of time scouting and hunting. Would I share info about the area? Absolutely! Why? Because the next time I may be the one needing the help. Hunters have gathered around a campfire and shared hunting intel for eons. These forums are just a modern day campfire. Giving good info to help out another hunter makes me feel good that I am able to help someone out. Most people don't ask for honey hole coordinates, they just need a good starting point. They feel good, you feel good, win, win! :grin:


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