# CWMU



## bossloader (Sep 11, 2007)

if you are a land owner and are part of an cwmu unit do you still have the right to let family hunt IN ADDITION to the people that drew and the people that paid for land owner permits?

i know a person that his uncle owns property up north and when i was talking to him about the draw he said his uncle said for you it is open hunting? he takes this as he will not have to put in for the draw or buy a land owner tag and he can hunt when ever he want's. 

help me out on this, show me where i can show him what to do.


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## rutting (Jul 11, 2008)

Each CWMU gets so many tags. So aslong as he was given some as part of the lease then you could get one.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

bossloader said:


> if you are a land owner and are part of an cwmu unit do you still have the right to let family hunt IN ADDITION to the people that drew and the people that paid for land owner permits?
> 
> i know a person that his uncle owns property up north and when i was talking to him about the draw he said his uncle said for you it is open hunting? he takes this as he will not have to put in for the draw or buy a land owner tag and he can hunt when ever he want's.
> 
> help me out on this, show me where i can show him what to do.


If his uncle's property is part of a CWMU, then he may receive for free, from his uncle, one of the landowner tags that most CWMU's sell to clients, but *he must have a legal tag for that CWMU*. Because wild game animals (and fish) belong to the state, shooting any wild game animal anywhere (even on your own property) without a proper permit (or prior permission from the DWR) is poaching!

And, he cannot hunt whenever he wants. Depending on the species, sex, and weapon, the CWMU hunts go from Aug 15, 2009 to Jan 31, 2010. (See Big Game Guidebook,page 39)


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

what his uncle is saying that he does not have to put in for the cwmu unit to draw a tag to hunt, but he still needs a region tag (northern deer or open area bull tag) to hunt.

obtaining a cwmu tag allows a person to trespass on such property to hunt. the same for a landowner tag. the landowner can also sell the landowner for a fee in any amount he chooses. now if a land owner wants to charge a trespass fee to let others to hunt on his property he has the right to do so.
the same goes if he wants to let his family to hunt. the exception is LE permits which state that they cannot be in an area that is not part of the area drawn for. your anterless permits fall into this Scenario also.


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## bossloader (Sep 11, 2007)

i need it a little more clear, if the land owner has sold all the permits he got from dwr and you dont draw can you just buy a hunting licences and go hunt his land? or would he need to give up one of the permits he would normaly sell? this seems to me like he could not give more permits then the state has allocated for his cwmu. 


CWMU=13-free
landowner=22-$500
trespass fee=unlimited-$10

can this senerieo happen?


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## stillhuntin (Feb 14, 2008)

bossloader said:


> can this senerieo happen?


I don't believe it can - legally. The CWMU must issue a voucher to the hunter who the takes/mails the voucher to the division for a COR (license). I'm quite sure the numbers are limited to those allowed by the division. A land owners' acreage _not_ include in the CWMU would be different. Hopefully this is the case for your friend. In any case don't come off a CWMU with an animal wearing a general tag.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Division office.
If you obtain a CWMU permit, you may hunt only on the CWMU that’s specified on your permit. You may take only one animal of the species and sex listed on the permit. You’ll also incur a waiting period for the species you obtained a permit for. (Please see pages 17–18 for more information about waiting periods.)
You may not obtain more than one pronghorn, one moose, one buck deer or one bull elk permit in a year. But you can obtain an antlerless deer or antlerless elk permit. More information about antlerless permits is available in the box on page 12.

In addition to this, You can not hunt "GENRAL" season anything on any CMWU,
So a tresspass permit is Irrelevant.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

bossloader said:


> i need it a little more clear, *if the land owner has sold all the permits he got from dwr and you dont draw can you just buy a hunting licences and go hunt his land?* or would he need to give up one of the permits he would normaly sell? this seems to me like he could not give more permits then the state has allocated for his cwmu.
> 
> CWMU=13-free
> landowner=22-$500
> ...


NO, It would be like buying a general season tag and hunting an LE unit. If this is what he is doing, it is against the law.



> *Sagebrush wrote"*
> 
> what his uncle is saying that he does not have to put in for the cwmu unit to draw a tag to hunt, but he still needs a region tag (northern deer or open area bull tag) to hunt.
> 
> ...


 :?

Huh?


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## skeet4l (Sep 11, 2007)

Just to add,

*Obtaining a CWMU permit*
If you're a Utah resident, there are two ways to obtain a CWMU permit: you can apply for one in the state's public drawing, or you can obtain a permit voucher from the landowner or operator of the CWMU you want to hunt.
CWMU landowner association members and operators-and their spouses and dependent children-cannot apply for CWMU permits in the public drawing.
If you're not a resident of Utah, you cannot apply for a CWMU permit in the public drawing. You can, however, obtain a permit voucher directly from the CWMU landowner or operator.
If you obtain a CWMU voucher, you can redeem the voucher for a permit by mailing the voucher to:
CWMU Front Desk
Division of Wildlife Resources
P.O. Box 146301
Salt Lake City, Utah 84114-6301
(Please allow 10 to 14 days for processing.)
You can also redeem the voucher at any
Division office.


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## skeet4l (Sep 11, 2007)

My understanding is that once the land owner enters the CWMU arena they have the right to give out a pre-determined number of vouchers which in turn need to be submitted to the Division office for a permit.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

You need to view a CWMU the same as a Limited Entry Unit. To hunt a species designated in the CWMU management plan you must have the CWMU specific tag. Hunting a CWMU without the proper CWMU specific tag is poaching. If this guy is hunting land enrolled in a CWMU, for a species designated in the CWMU plan, without a unit specific CWMU permit then he is poaching.

Some CWMUs are enrolled for all species; moose, deer, elk, turkey, etc. Others are enrolled for deer and elk only, while another might be enrolled for antelope only. So if a CWMU is enrolled for antelope only then one could legally hunt deer on the property with a general season (region) permit. Or if the CWMU is enrolled for elk and deer then it is legal to hunt a limited entry moose permit from the draw.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Packout,,, That's some great info right there. And 100% correct.

I should have known that, We've paid trespass fee's to hunt lion's on CMWU's before.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

The landowners don't own the animals, they own the land. The animals are managed by the DWR and they determine how many tags should be given to the land owners. The CWMU applies for a tag number increase or decrease and then the DWR reviews the application and decides what to do.
Under no circumstance whatsoever can someone hunt a CWMU without a specific "CWMU permit". *You cannot hunt a CWMU with any general season permit* no matter where it's located.
Immediate family members are not allowed to apply for a permit. If the landowner decides to sacrifice his $5,000 permit fee to let a family member hunt, that's his business but he will lose alot of money by doing that.
I have heard many stories of land owners letting thier freinds hunt the property with a general season tag and this is very illegal and takes away the fairness in the program. People apply for years for these tags and others save money for a long time to be able to purchase a tag. 
*No way can you hunt a CWMU with a general tag*

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

HJB- Actually..... the only people barred from applying for the permits are:

"CWMU landowner association members and operators—and their spouses and dependent children—cannot apply for CWMU permits in the public drawing."

Immediate family members can apply for the permits if they meet the above criteria.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

So here's another CWMU question:

Do accrued bonus points count towards CWMU hunts in the draw? I'm assumming bonus points are applicable just like for a Limited Entry unit, but I cant seem to find the answer anywhere. Can you also put in as a group for a CWMU?

sawsman


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## BRL1 (Sep 12, 2007)

What I was able to find about putting in as a group in the guidebook:

"Up to four hunters can apply together for limited-entry, premium limited-entry and resident CWMU deer, elk or pronghorn permits. Group applications are not accepted
for management buck deer hunts."


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

sawsman said:


> So here's another CWMU question:
> 
> Do accrued bonus points count towards CWMU hunts in the draw? I'm assumming bonus points are applicable just like for a Limited Entry unit, but I cant seem to find the answer anywhere. Can you also put in as a group for a CWMU?
> 
> sawsman


CWMU's are in the SAME point system as LE, meaning if you have _bonus _points, you can use them to apply for CWMU or LE. They are not the same as _preference_ points for general season hunts. Yes, you can put in for a group, as was mentioned earlier, but it doesn't make sense on almost all of the CWMU's across the state, as most only have a few tags for each species allocated to the public.


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## Blanding_Boy (Nov 21, 2007)

HJB—
I figured by now you would be a little more educated about the CWMU program. There are a few of your statements that are not correct.

1—landowners do manage wildlife on their property the UDWR has jurisdiction over the wildlife for and behalf of the people of the state of Utah but that doesn’t prohibit a landowner from managing wildlife on their property—they do and in many cases do a much better job of it.
2—You said, “The CWMU applies for a tag number increase or decrease and then the DWR reviews the application and decides what to do.” WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Educate yourself--this is not the process.
3— You said, "You cannot hunt a CWMU with any general season permit no matter where it's located." That is FALSE!! You can hunt other wildlife with a general season tag or limited entry tag or general hunting license on a CWMU as long as it is not for that species that is identified/specified for the CWMU—see Packouts post if you don’t get it. 
4—You said,“If the landowner decides to sacrifice his $5,000 permit fee.” FALSE—landowners don’t get permits only the UDWR has permits and they don’t give them to the landowners. All landowner vouchers don’t sale for $5,000.00 (not sure where you got that) some sale for as little as free and others sale for more the 20K—it’s called free enterprise and supply and demand (read about it if you don’t’ know what those terms mean). BTW—to some landowners it is not a sacrifice to donate or give vouchers to their family members—many do it all the time--some of the benefits of having a nice family I suppose. 
5—if you have heard of "many stories of land owners letting their friends hunt the property with a general season tag"—how come you are not reporting them? I will tell you why, this is called HEAR SAY (again a term you might want to look up) if not where is the proof and why are you not reporting these ‘many stories’? 

I’m not sure what happened to you on a CWMU but it would appear that you sure have it out for CWMU’s in general. I would sure appreciate it if you would at least get the facts straight before you continue to spew and show your lack of education about the program—you make yourself look silly and do nothing good for the program and those who run a good tight ship. If you got have a specific beef, take it up with the UDWR or that individual but I ask you to Please get your facts straight before you sound off.

Todd


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Straight from the horses mouth. :wink:


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## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Straight from the horses mouth. :wink:


The T-horse. Not just any horse you DAHB.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Straight from the Horses Arss!!!

Everything I said was a portion of the rules, I didn't have time write a novel like yours. And $5000 is a figure of speech you idiot. I'm pretty sure that the CWMUs don't give out free tags to the public, that's a little far fetched there buddy. And many CWMUS charge in excess of $5,000, try $10,000 on some of them.
I have turned in more owners than you know, and more people for poaching than you know. I have tried to resonable with many of these smucks in Northern Utah, I have treid to be nice, but the fact is, the CWMU program sucks!!!
90% of the land owners I have called are just plain rude and ignorant, they could care less about the public and view the public tags as a curse from hell. I have talked to owners about turkey access and got that shoved back into my face as well. 
If these guys would just be nice and act professional I wouldn't have a huge problem, but they are a bunch of butt munchers!!
I know two people from my wifes side of the fam that hunt bull elk on a Northern UT CWMU without any tag whatsoever, and get away with it every year. I have reported this along with many other incidents and what has been done??????????? Nothing!!! These CWMU owners are the kings of the world and treat the public like crap, they do what ever they want and could care less about rules. 
I have seen my "Once Public" hunting areas taken over year after year by these stupid CWMUs and I'm sick and tired of it.

So now you know why I whine and bitch so much about this every time it comes up. I try and try to get over it and love the program, but I can't take it anymore. I say air lift all the states animals of these dang CWMUS and put them back on Public land for us "Average Joes" to enjoy.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

BTW
I looked all over for the CWMU booth at the Hunt expo and couldn't find it anywhere. You guys must have seen me coming. I really wanted to talk to you face to face Todd.
Oh well, I have got the rest of the year to complain online.
:twisted:


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

HJB said:


> BTW
> I looked all over for the CWMU booth at the Hunt expo and couldn't find it anywhere. You guys must have seen me coming. I really wanted to talk to you face to face Todd.
> Oh well, I have got the rest of the year to complain online.
> :twisted:


I'm not a big fan of the CWMU, I hate how they are allowed to include public land, or to be more specific, land that would be accessible to the public if the CWMU did not exist :evil:


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## huntinco (Sep 23, 2007)

HJB... Draw one of my units and see if you still feel the same way about the CWMU units.


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## Petersen (Sep 7, 2007)

HJB said:


> Straight from the Horses Arss!!!... And $5000 is a figure of speech you idiot.





HJB said:


> If these guys would just be nice and act professional I wouldn't have a huge problem,...


HJB, I suggest that you take some of your own advice and apply it to yourself. Feel free to express yourself and say what you want, but please do so without resorting to insults and spitting venom. The forum rules prohibit this sort of abusive language.

Thanks!

Pete


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## Blanding_Boy (Nov 21, 2007)

HJB--

While I would like to respond further to your lack of education and 'figure of speach', I will refrain from doing so. I believe your posts speak volumes as to your character, state of mind, and education in general with regards to the CWMU program and English 101.

BTW--I was in booth 805 everyday at the expo. Sorry I missed you. Good luck with your endeavors to continue to whine about a program. You just may get somewhere yet. 

Todd


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

huntinco said:


> HJB... Draw one of my units and see if you still feel the same way about the CWMU units.


 Justin, 
Three of my friends are in the drawing for your units, I hope they can draw and I can meet you. You are the only CWMU owner that I have seen on the forums and the only one that encourages the public to apply. Hopefully an experience on one of your properties can change my attitude.

Todd,
Good luck with everything. I just got done reading the CWMU report from a couple years ago and funny thing is, the average price for a CWMU tag fell in at $5000 (Exactly what I said it would be). Also, there were 5 pages of complaints from private and public hunters. You guys still have a lot of work to do on this program and I wish you the best of luck.


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

huntinco said:


> HJB... Draw one of my units and see if you still feel the same way about the CWMU units.


I am impressed that there is a CWMU operator encouraging the public hunters, good for you Mr. Richins. My cousin hunts a lot up Farmington Canyon and knows that area well, he has access up Deep Creek. I may just put in for the Jacobs Creek CWMU this year. Are there any deer on the Bear Springs CWMU?


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## neverdraws (Nov 24, 2008)

I have contacted a few of the CWMU operators and only had one that acted like I was wasting his time. Most were very helpful and wanted the public hunter to have a great experience. I talked to one for over a 1/2 an hour. He was very excited about hunting in general and promised to do everything he could to get me a nice buck, but was also realistic about the class of deer coming off the unit. I would have loved to hunt with him, but realized I would have a better chance at a big buck somewhere else. A few years back, the unit was kicking out some bruisers, but it had gone downhill.

I think if you treat the CWMU operator like you would a business client, you will have good experiences with the phone calls. If you are pushy or demanding when requesting info, you get what you dish out.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Guns and Flies said:


> huntinco said:
> 
> 
> > HJB... Draw one of my units and see if you still feel the same way about the CWMU units.
> ...


I too am impressed, since my only experience with a CWMU was on a Hardscrabble (Fred John) cow moose hunt with my son a few years ago. It was a sham/scam and left a bitter taste in my mouth for the program. Then I noticed this year that a long time friend of mine, Matt Wood, got into the program with his family's property out in Zane (pronghorn) and I realized it's not the program but *the landowner/operator that makes the difference.* Matt has given me permission to hunt pronghorn on the property for years, though I have only taken him up on the offer a few times 'cause it's so far out there. And he's so laid back that I can't imagine him treating the public badly. He's glad to get those "**** things" off his property, just be careful of the livestock and buildings. And his family owns much more than the designated CWMU property so I could probably still hunt there if I wanted. I guess the Wood family decided since they feed the "**** things" anyway, they might as well get paid for it. Good on 'em!

The CWMU program is designed to benefit the public, the landowner, the DWR, the big money hunter and the wildlife. When any one of those things gets out of kilter, the program, and ultimately the wildlife, suffers. Since the wildlife doesn't read "No Trespassing" signs and we do, then it's to our benefit to cooperate with landowners as much as possible. The CWMU program helps us do that. That's my new viewpoint, FWIW.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

Good point


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