# Required Draw Weight For Big Game



## brisket

In the 2017 Big Game Field Regulation Guidebook (2018 not available yet) it says on page 39: "Your bow must have a minimum pull of 40 pounds at the draw or the peak, whichever comes first".

But it states here under R657-5-11 subsection 1a: "the minimum bow pull is 30 pounds at the draw or the peak, whichever comes first;"

Perhaps I missed it, but did they reduce the required draw weight to hunt big game to 30lbs?


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## pdogger

Yes, I believe it was the November 30th Wildlife Board meeting where that was changed


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## RandomElk16

Holy cow.. 30lbs????

Wasn't it 45 a few years back?


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## taxidermist

Next thing you know, they'll allow big game hunting with a "flipper crotch".


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## Critter

taxidermist said:


> Next thing you know, they'll allow big game hunting with a "flipper crotch".


I just wished that Utah would allow you to use that flipper crotch to hunt grouse with.


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## brisket

RandomElk16 said:


> Holy cow.. 30lbs????
> 
> Wasn't it 45 a few years back?


It's been 40lbs for as long as I remember.

This change will help me out this year as I'm not confident my 12 year old will make it to a 40lb draw by August. Still, I'm curious to see the results, how well a sub 40lb bow will penetrate an elk or deer.


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## silentstalker

There is absolutely no question that a 30 lb. bow made in the last 5 years is far superior to the 40 lb. bows most of us used growing up. Newer bows are a ton more efficient.


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## RandomElk16

silentstalker said:


> There is absolutely no question that a 30 lb. bow made in the last 5 years is far superior to the 40 lb. bows most of us used growing up. Newer bows are a ton more efficient.


I mean, compound bows for the last 10+ years have been pretty darn nice.

That said, lets math for fun.

As a general statement, lets say 7-8g weight on an arrow per pound draw. 30lb=180-210g.

Lets say a 5 foot kid with a draw length of 24". (10fps for each inch below 30 - 6x10=-60fps)

Draw weight of 30lb (minus 15-20fps every 10lb below 70. 4x17=-68fps)

A bow with an IBO around 320fps.

With the draw weight, accessories+release method(-8fps), draw length... So shooting around 184fps.

For KE - (Arrow weight) x (Arrow speed) x (Arrow speed) / 450,240

210x184x184= 7,109,760/450,240 = 15.79

*I could be way wrong, as I only tried this today!*

THIS WAS JUST FOR FUN.

That said, this is point blank KE. You also lose KE every yard your arrow travels. Most stuff I read says at MINIMUM you want >25 for deer.

KINDLY, someone let me know if these numbers make any sense.

I would love to know some actual children speeds and arrow weights.

AGAIN... THIS WAS JUST FOR FUN


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## RandomElk16

I guess the point of it as well.. Draw weight alone isn't the best calculation but would be really difficult for the DWR to do anything else. Draw length taken into account will definitely affect the KE.

Sources for mathing:
http://bestcompoundbowsource.com/whats-bows-real-speed/
http://bestcompoundbowsource.com/compound-bow-kinetic-energy/


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## taxidermist

I'm sure the drop in the required weight (if it has been reduced) is "tailored" to the youth hunters. Not many 12 year olds can draw much over #50. If a young hunter is efficient, accurate, and has Dad or Mom at there side, I'm sure the flight of the arrow will be deadly.


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## Critter

It is really going to get interesting. 

Let's see, I pick up a bow with the draw weight set at 30lbs. Now this bow just happens to have a 80% let off so at full draw I am now only holding 6lbs at full draw. Now I could hold that 30lbs for a long time but at 6lbs I could hold it until my arms fell off holding just the actual weight of the bow. 

Don't get me wrong I am all for getting younger hunters into the game but it is starting to get a little bit ridiculous. At 12 years old I was shooting a 35lb recurve bow and had a overdraw of a couple of inches so possibly I was pushing 40lbs at full draw.


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## brisket

Critter said:


> It is really going to get interesting.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I am all for getting younger hunters into the game but it is starting to get a little bit ridiculous.


It seems low to me as well, but I would hope this decision was based off studies or observations from other states. The only observation I've had was from a deer my older son shot at 40lbs a few years ago:

http://utahwildlife.net/#/topics/126193

It was a clean pass through and I think at that range on that small buck a 30lb draw would have taken the deer as well. Elk are much tougher to take down though and that's what I wonder about.


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## taxidermist

Critter said:


> It is really going to get interesting.
> 
> Let's see, I pick up a bow with the draw weight set at 30lbs. Now this bow just happens to have a 80% let off so at full draw I am now only holding 6lbs at full draw. Now I could hold that 30lbs for a long time but at 6lbs I could hold it until my arms fell off holding just the actual weight of the bow.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I am all for getting younger hunters into the game but it is starting to get a little bit ridiculous. At 12 years old I was shooting a 35lb recurve bow and had a overdraw of a couple of inches so possibly I was pushing 40lbs at full draw.


Ya! At 8 yrs. old I had a #35 recurve (Fiberglass) and had to have my Dad string it for me becouse I couldnt do it. Became very accurate with that bow over the summer. Oh, the good ol' days. <<--O/


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## bozolinda

Yes, for every state law is somewhat different. But you have to adjust yourself accordingly. Be prepare for the possible scenarios if you have a real passion for the hunting. 

For detail information with proper guidelines about bows with its accessories, I recently found 10Bows. Most of the time, my required info is there when I needed the most. I'll suggest you to must visit there and I'm hopeful that everyone will get some useful info from there.
Enjoy the day..
Cheers!


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## colorcountrygunner

This is what I will be hunting with this year. An old Ben Pearson Bushmaster recurve manufactured in 1958. It's a 50 pound at 28 inch draw bow, but with me behind the wheel it will probably be about 47 pounds at 27 inch draw. If I kill something I will be the 3rd generation of my family to take big game with it. It shoots a 520 grain arrow at a blazing 155 or so fps. I bet it's about on par with a modern 30 pound compound in terms of power. My dad killed his first buck with it and said when he shot deer with it the arrows went in one side and out the other. I was a little concerned about using this setup on elk this year, so I asked the guys in the trad bow section of archerytalk what they thought. These are guys who have killed big critters with stick bows on multiple continents and have the pictures to prove it. The general consensus is that with a cut on contact 2 blade that is shaving sharp my arrows will bury to the fletch. I believe them.


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## colorcountrygunner

Getting these buzzcuts so they can circumcise a tick.


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## Wasatch_Outdoors

brisket said:


> It's been 40lbs for as long as I remember.
> 
> This change will help me out this year as I'm not confident my 12 year old will make it to a 40lb draw by August. Still, I'm curious to see the results, how well a sub 40lb bow will penetrate an elk or deer.


My daughters first big game animal was a cow elk taken with 42# of draw weight. She worked all summer to get over the legal restriction and just barely made it to where she could draw over 40#

It blew clean through both lungs at 18 yards. Not sure about further distance, but up close like that, it wasn't a problem. She had Magnus stinger heads, so it was a blade first design instead of a chisel point 3 blade, I think that helps with penetration on a lighter weight like that.


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## colorcountrygunner

Wasatch_Outdoors said:


> My daughters first big game animal was a cow elk taken with 42# of draw weight. She worked all summer to get over the legal restriction and just barely made it to where she could draw over 40#
> 
> It blew clean through both lungs at 18 yards. Not sure about further distance, but up close like that, it wasn't a problem. She had Magnus stinger heads, so it was a blade first design instead of a chisel point 3 blade, I think that helps with penetration on a lighter weight like that.


It helps a ton. Here's a little experiment to put it in perspective. Take and old pair of jeans you don't wear anymore and try to push an arrow tipped with a magnus stinger or something similar through it. It will go through incredibly easy. Now try to do the same thing with a chisel tip 3 blade broadhead. It's gonna take waaay more effort if you can even get it through at all.


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## Needaspeed

I actually just listened to The Meateater podcast episode 284 with Dr Ed Ashby, who's probably forgotten more than most of us will ever learn about archery. The talks about broadheads, arrow weight, foc. I learned a lot. There's way more to it than just fps and draw weight. Might be worth a listen.


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