# 204 vs 223 vs 22-250



## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

I've been putting in quite a bit of time on a remodel for my in-laws and wouldn't be surprised if they handed me some cash at completion, but have thought about telling them to just get me a rifle. So I'm thinking about, ok maybe fantasizing about, a new varmint rifle. I don't own nor have I shot any of the three listed in the title so I have no experience with any of them. What do you guys think about (good & bad) them? I have a 243, 270, 7MM mag, 300 savage, 30-30, 30-06 already. I have always thought that a 22-250 would be kind of cool. Never really thought about a 223. The 204 sounds really interesting though. Shots will hopefully be 150ish and under, but you never know. What is the availability of reloading components? I like to roll my own, and think that a "one hole" gun would be really cool. So accuracy is important. I'm not really an A R guy, not that they're bad just not my cup of tea, if you know what I mean. I'm more of a bolt gun guy, like wood but not opposed to a composite stock. At present I'm kind of leaning toward the Howa, but not dead set as of now.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I have all three of those calibers and in-laws.

My advice to you is to have them get your wife a gift certificate at a jewelry store. The end result will be fabulous and you have enough guns already.

.


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

The cool thing about a .204 is it wont knock you out of the scope when you shoot. You get to see the coyote or whatever you shoot drop thru the scope. Also they shoot very flat.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Given those options, I'd go for a .223 or 22-250

If you get a .223 with the right twist, you can shoot the heavier bullets to buck the wind better. Brass is plentiful and factory ammo is pretty cheap as well.

My .223 shooting 40 gr. Varmegedons at 3650 FPS sure make a mess out of rock chucks.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Get all three. You won't be disappointed.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Depends on the intended target. We ( my shooting buddy) shoot 22-250, .243, .223 and several .204's. Our favorite is the .204's because of the accuracy and as before mentioned , you see everything in the scope. The .204's are great on P-dogs and smaller vermin up to rock chucks. Next is the old reliable .223's . Wonderful caliber, very accurate. Just not the distance of the .204's. Maybe I should restate that. They'll shoot the distance but the bullet drop is far less in the .204's. 22-250 is great but you lose the sight pattern when the gun goes off and you need a spotter to see the bullet strike. but on larger vermin ( yotes) at a distance it would be great. Good luck on making a choice. All would do the job well.

Just a note. Make sure and check the barrel twist rates when selecting bullet weights. My Savage .223 is a 10FPLE2A with a 9 twist rate. It shoots the 55 grain + weights well. I think (not for sure) the Remingtons are a 12 twist rate and shoot the lighter bullets.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

wyogoob said:


> I have all three of those calibers and in-laws.
> 
> My advice to you is to have them get your wife a gift certificate at a jewelry store. The end result will be fabulous and *you have enough guns already.*
> 
> .


:shock: You lost me at ENOUGH.

I have both the .223 and a .204. I'd use both for varmints just depends on the situation. My .204 is a Kimber with a heavy barrel and laminate stock so if I had to do a lot of hiking it probably would not be my first choice but if I were stationary it is an absolute tack driver!

My .223's are both in the AR platform so I can't speak to shooting them out of a bolt gun. However one of them I built with an 18" barrel, bi-pod, and twist rate (1 in 8 ) to accommodate a little heavier bullet so it is also very accurate at distances well beyond the 150 you hope to shoot.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

KineKilla said:


> :shock: You lost me at ENOUGH.
> 
> ..............................


My apologies, it was a lame attempt at some humor. My guess is you haven't been married for 40 years. 

I would do the .223; the ammo is cheaper; reloading is dumb.

.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

One factor to consider is ammunition costs outside of what was already mentioned. If you reload, I guess its not that big of a deal but it could be an important factor to take into account if you are buying factory ammo.

.223 will definitely be the cheapest to shoot.
.204 and .22-250 are fairly close in cost depending on what bullet you choose, but still a fair amount more expensive than the .223.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I have a Ruger M77 22-250. It is a fun and fast gun, but I don't shoot it much. The only thing that has been shot with that gun is deer. I have a .223 AR as well that get a little more use, but not much. I have zero experience with the .204 but I lean more towards the .17 Hornet if I was looking for a new toy.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

.22-250 was my first and still to this day, favorite caliber. Killed alot of things with it... have between 3000 and 3500 rounds through it. The throat is eroded so far I am seating my bullets 1/16" inch into the case to get near the lands, gun still breaks .35" groups. Speedy caliber. 

.223 is loads of fun in a AR platform, lots of cheap ammo to play with.

Just curious why you aren't considering .220 Swift in that list?


-DallanC


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I have a .204 Ruger. That gun is the most accurate gun that I own. The recoil on that gun is so light that my wife loves to shoot it. Reloading for that gun is crazy as the bullets barely seat because they are so small. I am shooting 32 grain bullets out of mine so it blows my mind that such a small projectile could move so fast and be so explosive. Side by side the .204 is more explosive than the .223 when it comes to acrobatics and aerial entertainment. Prairie dogs and Rock chucks seem to do a lot more dancing and exhibit more air from the .204 Ruger compared to the .223 The main factor of entertainment with the .204 Ruger like mentioned by others is that you don't have to look outside of the scope and ask "did I get it?" I have followed Prairie dogs into blue sky with my scope as they are coming apart. 

The velocity is just more dramatic when it hits. You probably want to stay away from 10 yard shots on rabbits, squirrels, chucks, or prairie dogs unless you want to get sprayred with the .204 Ruger. 

When it comes to coyotes the 22-250 is the boss! It has the same explosiveness on varmints as the .204 Ruger as well. The only drawback is that the recoil is sufficient that your scope is going to bounce off your target when the trigger is pulled. The extra grains on a 22-250 is going to do a better job at anchoring coyotes down for good. 

The .223 is the best option if you want to push round after round out of your gun. It is by far the most economical and you will never find a shortage of brass. Since you plan on reloading this will put you out shooting a lot more than either of the other 2 rounds. This round is a balanced round.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

+1 Great summary!

I would only add... a .22-250 AI would be fabulous, it would decrease that sharp shoulder angle allowing for longer brass life. Brass from a .22-250 doesnt last a whole lot of reloadings before splitting the neck (good thing I still have over 1000 brass for it ). That would put it on par with a .220 Swift too.

If I were to ever get a AI chambered rifle, I would do it in .22-250.

-DallanC


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## fishreaper (Jan 2, 2014)

They'll all get the job done within the intended range, so I'd go with the .204 just to add a little variety to your shelf. One day you may get an AR to fill that .22 caliber niche anyways.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

My wife shoots a 204 and it is deadly on coyotes. I use an AR in 223. I also own a 22-250. Al of them will work on coyotes and prairie dogs. If you are looking to reload for it then you better go for a 223. Right now 204 and 22-250 brass are hard to find.


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## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

Hey guys thanks for all the input, but your not really making my decision any easier. lol :-o Goob, I hope my wife doesn't read this and get any ideas. Loke, that is a real fantasy. DallanC, I have never really thought about a 220 swift. I have only known one guy many, many years ago that had one. Please enlighten me if you will. 
I probably should have stated what I will be hunting originally but didn't think about it till later today. I want to get into coyote hunting, but would probably use it for rabbits, chucks, fox and the like as well. May even be a gun that my wife or daughters could shoot if they wanted to. One question that I have is, will the 204 be enough gun to anchor a yote? Obviously yardage would play into that equation. At say 200 yards or less, with a well placed shot of course, I know that you can't shoot em in the arse and expect a DRT.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The 220 Swift is a novel idea but finding ammo could be a fun thing and if you don't reload then you are behind the 8 ball with it. Other than that it is a great round. You can get over 4000 fps with a 50 grain bullet which is about 200 fps faster than you can do with a 22-250. But if you take the 22-250 and convert it over to a AI then you will get velocities close to the 220 Swift with fewer problems. The Swift was also known for burning out barrels due to the higher velocities that it runs at. 

With bullet choice and proper shot placement the .204 will take down coyotes with no problem.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

COWAN said:


> The cool thing about a .204 is it wont knock you out of the scope when you shoot. You get to see the coyote or whatever you shoot drop thru the scope. Also they shoot very flat.


It's called IVGs. Immediate Visual Gratification. Happens all the time with a .204 Ruger.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

I/we(my family and friends) have killed everything from rabbits and pot guts to several deer with my 22-250 in the rem 700 with a bbl. My son killed his first deer this year at over 450 yards with it and a 55 gr. bullet. I have a personal best coyote drt at just about 600 and a confirmed fox at almost 1000 though I hit him in the hip the v-max still killed him before we got there. Most of my coyotes and foxes have been under 100 and the hornady v-max at 4300+ fps is very explosive on them. They are usually drt. You can find them on the shelf pretty regularly right now but for quite a while they were hard to find. I find them for around $20/box but some times $18. Never been aroundbthe .204 but heard good things about it except availability. I would really like a .22 hornet but at $50/box I'll pass.


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## COWAN (Oct 7, 2012)

longbow said:


> It's called IVGs. Immediate Visual Gratification. Happens all the time with a .204 Ruger.


Well said longbow....... well said.

And if there is any question if the .204 will kill a dog dead , lets just say "YES MOST DEFINITELY ". Out past 280 yards, I can't answer that, but I'd take the shot. The .204 is incredible. A Fun, Fast, & Flat shooter.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

roper said:


> Hey guys thanks for all the input, but your not really making my decision any easier. lol :-o Goob, I hope my wife doesn't read this and get any ideas. Loke, that is a real fantasy. DallanC, I have never really thought about a 220 swift. If you are a reloader and you're just going after coyotes, I'd get a 220 Swift. It does everything the other .22s do, just faster. I have only known one guy many, many years ago that had one. Please enlighten me if you will.
> I probably should have stated what I will be hunting originally but didn't think about it till later today. I want to get into coyote hunting, I've killed most of my coyotes with a .17 Rem, .204 Ruger and 22-250. If I wasn't saving the hides, I'd use a bigger .22 but would probably use it for rabbits, chucks, fox and the like as well. If you're saving your foxes, I'd recommend the .204 Ruger. For chucks.....well, I'd pick the 22-250 or the Swift. A direct shot is instant death and often a spectacular aerobatic display. May even be a gun that my wife or daughters could shoot if they wanted to. A 22-250/Swift would make a fine deer gun if they decided to hunt deer. One question that I have is, will the 204 be enough gun to anchor a yote? I've killed LOTS of coyotes with a .204 but the .22s are defiantly better at anchoring a yote. Especially past 200 yards. Obviously yardage would play into that equation. At say 200 yards or less, with a well placed shot of course, I know that you can't shoot em in the arse and expect a DRT.


Sounds like you need at least two guns. A .204 Ruger for fox-sized animals and a 22-250 or Swift for coyotes and bigger. Get a .204 for you and for your wife, you can get a 22-250, "just for her":mrgreen:.


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## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

Longbow, I like your way of thinking. A gun just for her:mrgreen::mrgreen: sounds a lot better than a gift certificate to a jewelry store.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Your problem is really not a problem. Get an accurate rifle in ANY of the above mentioned calibers and you will have endless hours of shooting bliss in your future. If you are shooting strictly factory ammo, I would lean toward the 204 or 22-250. I also like the 17 rem, 17 Fireball, and the 22 BR just to further muddy the water. --------SS


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

I have a 204 and love it. I affectionately call her "Red Mist".





Note: I do not condone nor condemn obliterating small defenseless rodents. Also note, I did not take these pictures nor fire the shot, but a .204 Ruger was involved in the filming of this episode.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

One word of advice if you are going to shoot prairie dogs in the spring... Do not go close to them to investigate the aftermath. I made the mistake of going in to check things out and although I did not particularly enjoy the "smell" of what had just occurred I must have caught some kind of stomach bug. 

Needless to say that "smell" manifested itself every time I went to the bathroom to spray out the said stomach bug. Keep your distance and enjoy the show from afar.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Nambaster said:


> One word of advice if you are going to shoot prairie dogs in the spring... Do not go close to them to investigate the aftermath. I made the mistake of going in to check things out and although I did not particularly enjoy the "smell" of what had just occurred I must have caught some kind of stomach bug.
> 
> Needless to say that "smell" manifested itself every time I went to the bathroom to spray out the said stomach bug. Keep your distance and enjoy the show from afar.


You went to McDonalds on that hunting trip, didn't ya?

.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Nambaster did you say "spray"?


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Dunkem said:


> Nambaster did you say "spray"?


Yep I call that stomach bug "Prairie dogs revenge" the last thing you will have is a Prairie Dog.... So to speak....-O,-


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm starting to think we need a forum prairie dog shoot...

Also I clicked on one of Nate's pics and saw this at the bottom and laughed


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Bax* said:


> I'm starting to think we need a forum prairie dog shoot...


I would LOVE to find a place to let my 14 year old shoot some pdogs.

Years ago I was hunting with a co-worker shooting pdogs when I noticed one standing about 16" beside the tire to his new white dodge truck (I was about 20 yards away). Told him there's one right there! he said Shoot it! I said you sure? Its pretty close to your tire. He said sure, just don't hit the tire... but kill it. So I let'er rip with my 22-250: *SPLAT* guts and everything rained down all over his hood... it was sooooooo funny. I gave him three quarters for the car wash later :mrgreen:

-DallanC


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

roper said:


> One question that I have is, will the 204 be enough gun to anchor a yote? Obviously yardage would play into that equation. At say 200 yards or less, with a well placed shot of course, I know that you can't shoot em in the arse and expect a DRT.


If you read my other post, I stated it was plenty good for coyotes. We have killed a lot of them with it. It will do the job beyond 200 yards if you can shoot. Any gun will not be DRT if you dont hit them right, even the 22-250 and 220 Swift. The key with the 204 is the right bullet and the V-max is not a good choice. Reload it with a 35 gr Berger and it will work great.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

reb8600 said:


> If you read my other post, I stated it was plenty good for coyotes. We have killed a lot of them with it. It will do the job beyond 200 yards if you can shoot. Any gun will not be DRT if you dont hit them right, even the 22-250 and 220 Swift. The key with the 204 is the right bullet and the V-max is not a good choice. Reload it with a 35 gr Berger and it will work great.


Reb,

what do you know?! You act like you hunt coyotes all the time or something. :mrgreen:

Next thing you know, you are a mod on another forum with knowledge like that!


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Bax* said:


> Reb,
> 
> what do you know?! You act like you hunt coyotes all the time or something. :mrgreen:
> 
> Next thing you know, you are a mod on another forum with knowledge like that!


Shot one or two in my life. Oh the mod life. The pay isnt as good as I was promised. I keep hearing the check is in the mail but havent seen one yet.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

reb8600 said:


> Shot one or two in my life. Oh the mod life. The pay isnt as good as I was promised. I keep hearing the check is in the mail but havent seen one yet.


Yeah, we keep waiting for our checks over here too. So far the only reward I have received was some of Goob's delicious squirrel gumbo.


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## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

Hey guys, thanks for all the input/info. Keep it coming, at this point it's still a fantasy for me. I'll keep you posted to see how it turns out. 

On a side note, Reb, are you going to go to the PM hunt this year? If so I need to send a lanyard & drag down to you for the raffle.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Roper I am going. I will send you a PM with my address. We appreciate the help.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Bax* said:


> Yeah, we keep waiting for our checks over here too. So far the only reward I have received was some of Goob's delicious squirrel gumbo.


I never got any gumbo, either.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I think you guys get paid in Loonies.


-DallanC


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

*\\-\\*:smash::mod:


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm still waitin for the check !!!!


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## NHS (Sep 7, 2007)

How you been Al? Staying out of trouble?


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Retirement has been a blast. Hunt dogs all summer. Fish all spring summer and fall. Camping all the time. And when I get bored I reload and do motorcycle trips.:grin: And you ? Hope you are well and playing a lot.


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## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

Well guys, I went and "done it". Since none of you guys was telling me what to run out and buy,;-);-) I decided that I would look around and see if I could find one of the three with what I thought was a good price (bad idea, or... good idea depending on how you look at it). I found a Savage/Stevens .223 on utahgunexchange.com. But it wasn't your typical Savage/Stevens. The guy had taken the plain vanilla synthetic stock off and put a Boyd's full floated thumbhole laminated stock on, taken the savage trigger (not an acu-trigger) off and put a timmney trigger on, traded the stock bolt for a tactical bolt, and dressed it up with a BSA TMD 4-14x44 with side focus on her. He also showed a target that he had shot that was 5 at a 100 yards that measured .48, threw in 20 rounds and the reciepe. I haven't made time to shoot it yet but am looking forward to doing so, as soon as I get this project done.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Nice


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

Looks like you did good.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Looks like a sweet gun. You'll love that stock.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Perfect !!!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

waspocrew said:


> Given those options, I'd go for a .223 or 22-250
> 
> If you get a .223 with the right twist, you can shoot the heavier bullets to buck the wind better...............................


I just gotta ask. Can you get a .223 with the left twist?

.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I watched a Simpson episode and I think you can get the left twist if you are South of the equator. The only problem is that the left twist is not in the barrel of a gun....


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> I just gotta ask. Can you get a .223 with the left twist?
> 
> .


I'd just chuck the rifle barrel up in a vice and grab the other end of it with a pipe wrench with a 20' cheater on the end of the wrench. Then just untwist it and put the left hand twist on it that you want. -BaHa!-


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Does the left twist enhance or negate the coriolis effect?


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## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

And I thought that the right twist would give me an advantage on targets that were moving to the right, and the left twist would do the same to the left.....;-);-)


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> Does the left twist enhance or negate the coriolis effect?


I would be dependent on whether you are shooting north/south or east/west.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

roper said:


> And I thought that the right twist would give me an advantage on targets that were moving to the right, and the left twist would do the same to the left.....;-);-)


Only if you are left-eye dominant and shoot right handed...uh...with both eyes open.

Wait a minute; I gotta think about that.

.


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## roper (Sep 27, 2010)

Right handed, left eyed, right brained, no brained, all these dang details, no wonder I have trouble hitting anything. Hey, maybe I'm both eye dominate.:shock:


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

What the heck is the "corniholus effect"? Sounds dirty.------SS


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