# Bang for the buck



## wileywapati (Sep 9, 2007)

First off let me be perfectly clear with the
Following post. 

I do not intend to offend or put at odds any
Of my friends associated either with DU or Delta. 

This isn't meant to be a rooster measuring contest either. 

I, like many of you aren't made of cash, I do
However like to contribute where possible with 
Either time or money. 

So my question is multi pronged. 

Which org is funding the most by ratio in Utah?? IE
If one org has a banquet with 100 people and puts 98% back
On the ground in Utah vs an org that has a banquet of
500 but only puts 25% back in to the state. 

Second, rjefre may have this answer, is it possible to hold a few
UWA fundraisers throughout the year??

As I said I'm not looking for contention here, I'd just like to 
Know that what I contribute does make a difference in Utah.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

This is a GREAT post that I have personally wondered about myself. 

Its great to know that group A donated $1 million, but group B donated $400k. However, group B's operating costs are lower so more of MY money is going to its intended destination. 

Cool question! 8)


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

http://utahwildlife.net/forum/16-waterfowl/74737-question-du-delta-waterfowl.html


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Another question? How much of the money these groups take credit for is grant money? I'm assuming this is tax dollars. How much of it is partners dollars? And how much of it is being spent in places like the ambassador and like duck clubs? Last question. What are these groups official positions on our right to own guns and hunt? I know what one groups position is don't know about the other.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

I am in no way an expert but I am a member of DU and DW and a committee volunteer for both. I think hunters should support any organization that is trying to preserve the game and habitat that gives us all so much joy. Ducks are the main goal for both org., they just go about it a little differently. DU is a huge worldwide organization with a ton of clout and money to get things done. In the other thread it was noted that DU spent around 9 million dollars on projects in Utah a while back after the Utah DU chapters raised a small fraction of that. Delta Waterfowl seems to be more down to earth, get lots of volunteers doing work in your own community for your own communities benefit. We have already met with the DWR and have adopted a few ponds around the Ogden area and have proposed adopting and caring for a unit in one of the WMA. We will be doing nesting boxes and habitat repair etc. where needed. Delta's banquet season is coming up and 25% of money raised by Delta chapters stays in those chapters locally. Delta also focuses a lot of its' efforts on predator management and their studies show it has made a huge difference in the pothole region in Canada. Deltas theme for this year is "Ducks today, Ducks tomorrow. Hunters today, Hunters tomorrow"
In short, both are doing good work, Delta is just getting going here in Utah and DU has done a ton of good work that has benefited ducks and hunters. Join one or join both and put your boots on the ground and volunteer!


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

If an organization takes 10,000 dollars of our local money and is kind enough to give us 2500 back why wouldn't we support them? Kinda sounds like social security. If the money that is spent on banquets and other fund raising would stay local we could get rid of phragmites and restore our wetlands.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

Utmuddguy said:


> If an organization takes 10,000 dollars of our local money and is kind enough to give us 2500 back why wouldn't we support them? Kinda sounds like social security. If the money that is spent on banquets and other fund raising would stay local we could get rid of phragmites and restore our wetlands.


And the trappers that are paid by Delta to control predators and their scientists that are looking for ways to have better breeding success in the places ducks originate would go away along with most of the ducks that fly through Utah that I get to hunt. No thanks.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Izzy how many trappers did they hire here or in our flyway?


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

And the phragmites that are burned are usually funded by DU. I think I will pass on letting the DWR (or any government agency) be responsible with the money I donate that I want spent helping wildlife organizations.


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## izzydog (Jan 18, 2008)

Utmuddguy said:


> Izzy how many trappers did they hire here or in our flyway?


I don't know


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

I can tell you for a FACT 25% of the Banquet money Delta offers back goes into what is called a "Heritage Fund" back at head quarters. When needed Delta will issue dollars back to that chapter. Here's the kicker that 25% is about $800- $1,500 dollars after a healthy banquet! This is a fact.
Don't get me wrong I think the Delta guys are awesome guys but it seems like you could do better with a tin can sitting on the dike at FB on opening day and asking for donations?
I however have seen and hunted ground improved by DU here in UTAH and the dollars they have put back into Utah are amazing!
Again I don't want to start a pissing match because the Delta guys do try hard and are great folks. I just think there are easier way's to earn $1,000 bucks?
Ultimately it is what it is join what ya want to join! LOL


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Maybe this will help answer some questions.

http://www.ducks.org/utah/utah-projects

http://www.ducks.org/resources/media/Conservation/Reports/Habitat Maps/master/utah.pdf


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

So what your saying is the state waterfowl managers are incapable of properly administering their budgets. Programs like the slam program I'll bet return more than 75% of the funds.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

If the propaganda answered the questions I don't think anyone would have asked.

This is what you get back when you ask DU about their stance on the second amendment. They want donations and refuse to take a stance.

--------------------------------------------

Thank you for your recent inquiry about Ducks Unlimited and for your interest in joining DU. I hope you decide to do so, and appreciate your desire to make an informed decision before you join. Regarding your question about Ducks Unlimited and our position on Second Amendment Rights, I understand your concerns and will try to address them here.

Ducks Unlimited is the largest wetland and waterfowl conservation group in the world. We have managed to uphold this high standard by keeping our focus on our mission: to fulfill the annual life cycle needs of North American waterfowl by conserving and managing waterfowl habitats. We rely heavily on the contributions of hunters and outdoorsmen for support. However, we refrain from becoming involved in gun-control issues because our area of expertise is habitat conservation.

Many of our members have expressed concerns about gun control, and while we want everyone to support DU, we urge them to also support organizations that represent their other interests. As a non-profit organization, it is necessary for DU to be very strategic with its funds and efforts. Every dollar spent on gun control issues is money that could have been spent on habitat conservation. Rather than dividing our resources, we prefer to concentrate our efforts on our conservation goals. In order to succeed in our mission, such singleness of purpose is crucial.

I hope that this has adequately explained our position on the issue of gun control, and that you will choose to support DU in our conservation efforts. Concerned outdoorsmen like yourself are valued assets to this organization. If you have any further questions or concerns, feel free to contact me at [email protected].

Sincerely,
Laura Houseal
Communications Coordinator
Ducks Unlimited, Inc.


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

dkhntrdstn I AGREE the proof is in the pudding!
Heck DU has probably put more money into our state than our state has! LOL
I would love to see a comparison"same dates of donations" dollar for dollar!
It's sad but I would bet most our dollars are spent on state employee wages and politicians rather than an actual project.
Please correct me if I'm wrong?


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

All the DU guys please answer the original question. Fowlmouth asked asked a couple months back also with no straight answer. I do know they spend a lot of money on private land as well as public but how much of it is govt grants? Donations can be set up as to provide wildlife managers with unrestricted funds therefore bypassing the politicians and the well paid "non profit" fundraisers thus benefitting at a higher rate than 75 or 80 percent.


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

Utmuddguy-
First I am not currently a member of Delta or DU.
Second his question was answered in black and white! DU leads any organization by a mile in dollars that come back to our state.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

First of all I want to thank every volunteer that has helped in any way to support ducks and hunting.

Having said that, I am wondering how the volunteers that work banquets feel about donating a lot of their time scheduling events, setting up, collecting money, scheduling food services, scheduling building rental, working the events, raffles and everything else involved with banquets. Without volunteers these events would never get off the ground. IMO volunteers are overlooked and under appreciated for the most part. I wonder how some of these volunteers feel when a salaried regional manager that didn't do jack $hit shows up to their banquet to take credit and pick up a big fat check? I have zero interest in volunteering for any of these groups. I will do what I can to help out at the local level with nesting projects, marsh clean ups and planting vegetation.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Utmuddguy said:


> All the DU guys please answer the original question. Fowlmouth asked asked a couple months back also with no straight answer. I do know they spend a lot of money on private land as well as public but how much of it is govt grants?


it has been answered in the link he posted. There only very few people that get paid by Du and I only know one person here in Utah that getting paid from them. He is all was traveling from one end of the state to another part.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Who's that? I know the CEO feels so strongly about the cause he takes more than a quarter million dollars a year. Plus a healthy pension plan. 16 million dollars a year in salaries and pensions someone's getting paid and I hope it's not just a few.

Just a month ago some people attacked the slam program over a rumor of the J **** becoming a draw area. Does anyone even care that DU spent over $200000 at the ambassador duck club and more at the Ruddy. I personally will never be able to afford to hunt there seems like a double standard by a few people in the state.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Utmuddguy said:


> Who's that? I know the CEO feels so strongly about the cause he takes more than a quarter million dollars a year. Plus a healthy pension plan. 16 million dollars a year in salaries and pensions someone's getting paid and I hope it's not just a few.
> 
> Just a month ago some people attacked the slam program over a rumor of the J **** becoming a draw area. Does anyone even care that DU spent over $200000 at the ambassador duck club and more at the Ruddy. I personally will never be able to afford to hunt there seems like a double standard by a few people in the state.


where is your proof of that ? The rumor on the j dike being a draw only area got answered. So there was no rumor about that. It was a question and it got answered after it got heated and some feelings was hurt. that done and over with. But im asking you to prove to me that kinda money was dumb in to these clubs ?


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

http://www.ducks.org/utah/utah-content/money-in-utah

5 lines down along with the new state club the ruddy and other set aside private properties. Looks like any big organization make sure you take care of your more important donors.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Utmuddguy said:


> http://www.ducks.org/utah/utah-content/money-in-utah
> 
> 5 lines down along with the new state club the ruddy and other set aside private properties. Looks like any big organization make sure you take care of your more important donors.


I only see 15,000 to the clubs. I see 20,000 for farmington bay. 5000 to bear river salt creek 20,000.

I see that other have matched what du put in there and some got grants. So Du you did not put 200,000in there maybe over the years maybe not all at one time. that the way I see it


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

So with that logic DU only spent 200000 in utah not 9 million since most of it was grant money? I guess they get to claim the greater when it suits them and distance themselves when it doesn't. The total of our tax dollars and DU money was over 100000 dollars to a elite private club. Don't sugar coat what a grant is. That's some of out tax money being spent to repay what? Talk about a lack of transparency.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Utmuddguy said:


> So with that logic DU only spent 200000 in utah not 9 million since most of it was grant money? I guess they get to claim the greater when it suits them and distance themselves when it doesn't. The total of our tax dollars and DU money was over 100000 dollars to a elite private club. Don't sugar coat what a grant is. That's some of out tax money being spent to repay what? Talk about a lack of transparency.


I'm not sugar coating anything. You made it sound like du has dropped 200,000 of there own money in to these clubs. Witch they did not. the grants help to put money in there was well. I was not counting the grant money. ether was you. Why should Du not put some money in these clubs? When there members of Du in these clubs ? I'm seeing a **** load of money from du with there partners and grants getting dumb in to public land hunting where every one can use it.So that much in clubs don't bother me. It helps old birds there for us to hunt longer.

I just keep seeing feds buy land that was open to hunting and now they are closing them to hunting. plus they keep closing more and more place to hunt.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

dkhntrdstn said:


> where is your proof of that ? The rumor on the j dike being a draw only area got answered. So there was no rumor about that. It was a question and it got answered after it got heated and some feelings was hurt. that done and over with. But im asking you to prove to me that kinda money was dumb in to these clubs ?


You asked for proof I gave it to ya. If we don't count grant money how much has DU really spent in utah. From that list it's not much. Maybe you should research what your supporting before you speak.

I've made my point you can try to spin it anyway you like.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Just to clarify: DU is not funding the burning of phrag in Utah (as suggested in another comment), but Delta is helping to fund phrag research in Utah.
Both organizations are trying to help ducks---that's very cool. I tend to lean toward Delta because they are openly in support of *hunters* and the guns they use, and along the same vein, I'm not a great fan of Trout Unlimited because they dragged their feet when *fishermen* needed them a few years ago when the legislature passed the anti-fishing bill.
UWA just doesn't have the organizational skills to hold local fundraisers, so that is a non-starter.
I truly believe that the organization that has done the most for waterfowlers in this state is *Friends of Great Salt Lake*. They aren't focused on hatching ducks or buying nesting land, but they have successfully thwarted numerous attempts by industry, govt, and private interests from destroying the wetlands along the Great Salt Lake ecosystem. It is what they do. I think they do more for local waterfowl hunters (inadvertently) than both DU and DW put together. I don't have enough space to list in detail the things they are doing right now that will protect our marshes and thus, our hunting heritage. 
sorry to get off an a tangent, but it is still along the lines of what organizations are doing to help Utah waterfowl.
R


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## wileywapati (Sep 9, 2007)

Thanks R, 

Any way to get UWA to the point where maybe 
A quarterly fundraiser may become reality??


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Just as a clarification I have a lot of respect for any individual that works to support any group that is in the business of helping our wetlands. Volunteers work their guts out to raise money and make local chapters work. These local chapters I think have really good intentions it's just the national money generating machines that make me wonder.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I'm not sure UWA can be salvaged without some strong new blood that has the time to invest in keeping the vision alive. This is a subject for another thread I'm afraid.
R


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Utmuddguy said:


> You asked for proof I gave it to ya. If we don't count grant money how much has DU really spent in utah. From that list it's not much. Maybe you should research what your supporting before you speak.
> 
> I've made my point you can try to spin it anyway you like.


yes you gave me the proof like i asked. Im not trying to spin anything. but I also made my point on it as well. Here a question for you. where do you think the dwr gets all of there money ? I know. Also there would not be that much work done any where if it was not for the grants.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

I just dont understand why every one bash Du for everything. Here a thought maybe we all should stop fighting with each other about what group is better then this group. Why we all get join together and get **** done for the waterfowl instead of bitching about what group is better.Just think what can be done if Du,Delta, any of the group joined and what can be done.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

rjefre said:


> I'm not sure UWA can be salvaged without some strong new blood that has the time to invest in keeping the vision alive. This is a subject for another thread I'm afraid.
> R


 If ALL Utah waterfowlers would get on board with ONE organization like the UWA instead of starting new ones, we would be in a lot better shape as a group. It seems we just compete against each other in a lot of cases and we will never reach a common goal this way. Hell, get on facebook and see all the crap people start on there. "Join my group for a chance to win some cheap a$$ prizes, when we reach 10 million likes we will do a give a way" So sick and tired of seeing that garbage.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

That grant money that is obtained by DU could go to any group that could swing the matching funds. I for one want it to be used in public land to benefit the public. Not some duck club as a return for some kind of favor. If all this BS fund raising was directed toward programs that provided unrestricted funds for local projects out state would be second to none for public opportunity. It just amazes me that people buy into large fund raising groups propaganda. We are all free men and support what ya want my money's staying here in utah.

I whole heartedly agree about the groups seems everyone wants to be famous.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

How much Private dollars get used on public marshes??? You have to look at the big picture.. If you didn't have big orgs like DU and Delta than who to help us? Who helps us in Washington? I think they are doing a mighty fine job!! people giving time and money for the BIG picture!! To sit back and criticize of what and where there projects are with little info you have other than the fact that they were preformed is a bad move. 

lets face it.. These orgs are money making machines and they tap what ever recourses they can to get projects going. you might not think that monies spent on some duck club doesn't help doesnt help the "public" hunter but it does... projects at the rudy club only benefit the entire area of Farmington bay. 

my 2 cents.


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## wileywapati (Sep 9, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> If ALL Utah waterfowlers would get on board with ONE organization like the UWA instead of starting new ones, we would be in a lot better shape as a group. It seems we just compete against each other in a lot of cases and we will never reach a common goal this way. Hell, get on facebook and see all the crap people start on there. "Join my group for a chance to win some cheap a$$ prizes, when we reach 10 million likes we will do a give a way" So sick and tired of seeing that garbage.


Totally agree Rob.

A few years back I made the personal decision to pull my support from any org that is part of selling the public trust (conservation tags) for their own
Gain. I've seen what these permits have done to big game in Utah and I'm
Concerned that the stench and attached strings that come with these tags are
Slowly heading towards our public marshes. The DWR didn't just pull the idea of
Limited Entry blinds or areas on public marshes out of their ass. This idea was put in their ear by some person or group.

I'M POSITIVE IT WASNT DU!! Understood??

Still, once this door is opened and a market is found for this type of hunt there will be a buyer. If the money is right, we'll start managing to maximize these funds and trophy areas.

Call me a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but I was in the room with a handful of other people back in 1994 when the first half dozen or so tags were auctioned and look where we are now.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

wileywapati said:


> Totally agree Rob.
> 
> A few years back I made the personal decision to pull my support from any org that is part of selling the public trust (conservation tags) for their own
> Gain. I've seen what these permits have done to big game in Utah and I'm
> ...


 Yes, Agreed!
This is my biggest concern right now. I have been vocal about this and I have unintentionally offended a few people by asking a lot of questions about different groups. I figure if they take offense then they are probably going against what I believe in anyway. I think for the most part waterfowlers intentions are in the right place, but we need to stop competing with each other at every level.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

rjefre said:


> I'm not sure UWA can be salvaged without some strong new blood that has the time to invest in keeping the vision alive. This is a subject for another thread I'm afraid.
> R


Wait, wait, wait, I thought you and a bunch of your buddies were the "strong new blood".... Isnt that why you all tried to take over the UWA? Like you said though that is another conversation for another time.


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

This has been an ongoing pissing match for years and a pet peeve of mine!
Waterfowl hunters are great folks and givers for sure, but we as whole cannot join one team? If the Waterfowlers of Utah could all be on the same team you would see amazing things happen! I think this was the original goal of the UWA ? But it now sounds if it has fallen apart? The pissing match starts when we ask which is the best? Ultimately I believe there is some good in all of them. But they all lack the title of being perfect?
My opinion is somehow some way Utah waterfowlers must join together and create something similar to the California water fowl assoc.
Yup the boys in California joined together and now THEY run what happens in there state! I believe this happened years ago and it has been successful.
Anyhow dkhntrdstn has this one right!


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

do i think that UWA needs helps yes they do. The people running it cant do it all by them self. Emails need to start going out about projects that happening. So the members can get out there and help and so on. I dont know how many member there is now.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

^^^^^^ AMEN 

Local group of people doing local things what a great idea.


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

One single voice that is agreed by all. Ha ha ha ha. That sounds nice but really. 
If that was the case we would only vote for them best man for president. The truth is people all have some type of agenda. And they think they know best for everyone else. If you have noticed lately here in utah we have had a lot of new blood showing up from other places and they think they know what is best for utah. They are trying to change our ways and inject their ideas into our managent policy's. The only way for you as a single person can make a difference is to get off the couch and actually do some thing. Go help projects, mentor youth, go to meetings and STAND UP FOR THE RIGHT PATH TO WILDLIFE MANAGMENT. None of which will cost you just your time. joining delta or DU only makes you think you are helping.

Join them all. But if you really don't like what is going on just get involved. Don't just send someone money and then bitch on how they use it.


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