# Starting Five?



## CPAjeff

So Vanilla's comments made me start thinking about all the greatest in the past and current eras.

So ... who would be your starting five in the 90's, 2000's, and 2010's? You can pick and choose players from any era to make up teams for the three decades. The reasons for the three decades is because I think the game has changed, due to rules and the style of play in each of the last three decades.


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## taxidermist

Wow - This is a tuff team to put together. So many have played, currently play the game as you've stated. I'd have to give this some thought for sure. 

I know I'd have to have Stockton in the lineup. But where do you place Jordan, Curry, James, Bryant in the line up? every one of them could be a starting Guard.

Maybe the Olympic teams would be the starting lineup?


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## Hunttilidrop

The original dream team would be my choice over any group you could put together ever since! I believe they would give any other line up a thorough but kicking in any era.


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## Hunttilidrop

My 5 would be John Stockton Micheal Jordan Hakeem Olajuwon Karl Malone and Charles Barkley.


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## Vanilla

So I'm picking a starting 5 for the 70s, another for the 80s, and another for the 90s, but I'm able to choose players from any era to do so? 

I'm confused...obviously, and it shouldn't be a surprise as I'm not very smart on most days. 

Help me out CPAJeff. Can you attach a spreadsheet maybe to help illustrate it? :grin:


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## Hunttilidrop

Now I’m confused a little..the way I understand it is that you can choose any starting five from all three decades If you want. Mine are all from the 90’s


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## RandomElk16

Edit: Now I am confused... do I need to make 3 teams to play in the 3 different eras? You know what, screw it I still keep my team lol. Kawhi and AD may be all I swap.


What rules are we playing by? 

It's tough to decide:

PG- Magic played in the 90's, but not the same Magic we all knew.. Curry is the best 3 point shooter of all time. I don't need Stocktons assists, because I have another guy who can facilitate and my entire squad can create their own shot... So I go Steph.

SG- Kobe was a new school MJ, but MJ was MJ. So it's him.

SF- Easy. Lebron. Any team that doesn't feature the 3rd all time scorer who happens to be 8th on assists as well is null and void to me. He may be the only person we ever see finish with over 30K, 10K, and 10K. 

PF- Its tough. Do I switch Lebron to PF and run KD at SF? Length and the mid range are completely dominated by KD and MJ. Or do I go traditional with length, defense, and the paint and use Timmy? AD would be my choice, but he isn't even in his prime yet so it's TBD. Assuming today's league rules, I go KD to SF and Lebron at PF. Ah, but I need more defense. for the same reasons as KD, but with with Defense, I go KAWHI. (In my head I didn't even plan on making this switch, but after seeing the roster it needs to be done.)

C- Another hard one. AD dominates today's league, but prime Shaq dominates every league. Shaq. 


Final - Curry, MJ, Kawhi, Lebron, Shaq.


In a 7 game series this team beats anyone. 18 rings, 14 finals MVP's. 

An interesting "Big" Lineup would be to swap AD for Kawhi.


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## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> So I'm picking a starting 5 for the 70s, another for the 80s, and another for the 90s, but I'm able to choose players from any era to do so?
> 
> I'm confused...obviously, and it shouldn't be a surprise as I'm not very smart on most days.
> 
> Help me out CPAJeff. Can you attach a spreadsheet maybe to help illustrate it? :grin:


The 70s??? Was there even basketball back then?

Yes, you can formulate any collection of players from any era to form a team for each decade. For example, if you think Bron Bron could ball in the 90's league, but him in there.

Spreadsheet attached.


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## CPAjeff

Also, who would be your coach?

The Zen Master, Pop, etc.?


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## RandomElk16

CPAjeff said:


> Also, who would be your coach?
> 
> The Zen Master, Pop, etc.?


Phil or Pop. Definitely not Phil in the 2010's lol.


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## PBH

Are these teams playing against each other? Does the team need to score 120+ points in order to win (ie: no defense) or 80 (ie: plays defense)?


If the opposing team has Curry as the PG, then I'm going with Gary Payton as my PG (sorry Stockton -- I still love you).
Any team without MJ is just stupid.
Larry Bird too.
It would be hard not to want Giannis. His length, and athleticism will pay dividends. But maybe Timmy D? This spot is hard.
I'll also put Shaq as my center.

PG -- Payton
SG -- MJ
SF -- Bird
PF -- Giannis / Duncan
C -- Shaq


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## Hunttilidrop

My coach would have to be pop. Chuck Daly wouldn’t be a bad choice either.


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## RandomElk16

Lol.. Can you guys explain to me why Lebron doesn't make this team for you? 

Charles Barkley over Lebron makes 0 sense to me. Larry bird, ok, but Lebron does everything he did, better than he did. 

Before you say defense, we all should remember Lebron got snubbed on a DPOY. Prime Lebron was just fine on that end. 


Genuinely curious why the guy who is the only one people put in the convo with MJ isn't on the list and would love more context behind the selections.


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## wyoming2utah

PG--Stockton (somebody's got to pass the ball)
SG--MJ (How can it not be?)
SF--DR. J (One of my childhood favs..)
PF--Moses (I loved those Sixers when I was a kid...)
C--Kareem


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## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> Larry bird, ok, but Lebron does everything he did, better than he did.


No. Lebron is not a better shooter than Bird. Bird was also a better leader and teammate. Finally, Bird was a helluva lot tougher than Lebron.


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## wyoming2utah

PBH said:


> No. Lebron is not a better shooter than Bird. Bird was also a better leader and teammate. Finally, Bird was a helluva lot tougher than Lebron.


FWIW...Bird was also a better rebounder than Lebron and possibly a better passer. Even though Lebron averaged more assists than Bird in his career, he also plays the point-forward and handled the ball more than Bird did.


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## RandomElk16

I respecting picking off your favorite players/team (even if they get crunched :mrgreen: )


This made me think about what the Lakers starting 5 could do to opposing squads. With no tenure criteria you get to choose from:

Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Lebron
Jerry
Shaq
Kobe
AD
Dwight
Nash
Malone
Gasol

You even have guys like Baylor, Worthy, Goodrich, Rambis.


Of course, for some of these guys we would have to ignore their skill at the time they wore the jersey lol. 


The one they came out with of James, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal could probably beat any opposing lineup that excluded those guys. Say you had them vs Stockton, MJ, Bird, Tim, and Hakeem. What a game.


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## CPAjeff

Mine:

PG: Stockton - tough as nails, no ego, pass first, don't need a 'pure scorer' as my PG.
SG: MJ - no explanation needed.
SF: LeBron - no explanation needed. *His chase-down blocks were/are demoralizing.
PF: Malone - this one is hard for me because I love TD. I think from a run-the-floor, physical type, there is none better than Malone. Plus, he wasn't that bad of a scorer...
C: Shaq. This might be the weakest part of my team, in half-court sets, my team dominates. When out in transition or playing a running team, Shaq would be a liability.


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## Hunttilidrop

The reason I don’t have the King on my starting five is because I have MJ. I’m taking it as these teams are playing against each other. Same reason I don’t have Durant. The goat is it for me just giving him the supporting cast he needs to go up against any other line up. Hakeem would be in the post juking the crap out of shaq just like he did the admiral when the rockets swep the spurs. That was just embarrassing to be a David Robinson fan and have to watch that. With these kind of starting fives you better have a play maker not just a guys that can create their own shots. Stockton was the best at that in my opinion. Karl and Barkley were both great floor runners and could keep up with LeBron in a back and forth game plus their both plenty of muscle to deal with shaq down low if Hakeem got in trouble defending. Jordan would defend LeBron on the perimeter. Kawhi defending Jordan would be interesting for sure. This is a fun thread and I could go on and on but need to get back to work. Waiting on 3 Arabians line up.. I’m sure he’ll put some thought into it. I’ll admit that I’m a bit partial to the 90’s because that was the hieght of my basketball interest.


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## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> No. Lebron is not a better shooter than Bird. Bird was also a better leader and teammate. Finally, Bird was a helluva lot tougher than Lebron.


Lol.. Lower FG% and TS%. Not sure what your criteria are for the other two, Lebron certainly elevates his teammates and managed to lead them to 8 straight finals***insert confused gif***.

Tougher based on what? Lebron plays to his era, toughness is hard to gauge now because the rules make the league soft. No one will doubt Lebron being constantly fouled going to the rim, or him playing 48K minutes.

If you think LB was a better SF, that's fine. I just don't know what stats support that. He played on one of the most complete frontcourts we have seen though. those 3 were great, and I think people forget about McHale and Parish.

McHale balled out.


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## Vanilla

Yes, there was basketball in the 70s. And those that were around watching those guys think Jordan and Shaq were weak and would have got dominated by their favorite players of the 70s. No different than you borderline millennials talking about this now! 

:mrgreen::mrgreen:

If I'm picking a wing from the 90s Bulls, it's probably Scottie Pippen since I won't need the dynamic scorer, and he was a better defender than Jordan. 

"But, but, but....JORDAN WON DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR!!!!" Yep, and who did Phil put on the other team's best player in every important series they were in? Not MJ, but Scottie. Telling, isn't it? Remember when Scottie guarded Stockton and won the Bulls a title? I do.


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## PBH

'Nilla -- you probably think Draymond Green is a great defensive player too, right?


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## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> Yes, there was basketball in the 70s. And those that were around watching those guys think Jordan and Shaq were weak and would have got dominated by their favorite players of the 70s. No different than you borderline millennials talking about this now!
> 
> :mrgreen::mrgreen:
> 
> If I'm picking a wing from the 90s Bulls, it's probably Scottie Pippen since I won't need the dynamic scorer, and he was a better defender than Jordan.
> 
> "But, but, but....JORDAN WON DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR!!!!" Yep, and who did Phil put on the other team's best player in every important series they were in? Not MJ, but Scottie. Telling, isn't it? Remember when Scottie guarded Stockton and won the Bulls a title? I do.


Borderline?? Borderline??? We're talking about borderline???  Crazy that AI only gets remembered for that rant, well and some other problematic issues. . .

I'm smack dab in the middle of the millennial generation.

I was actually thinking about how I would incorporate Scottie into my rotation. Even in his HOF speech, MJ credited Scottie for his role in those titles.


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## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> I just don't know what stats support that.


How often have we seen teams fail due to lack of chemistry? There is more to making a great team than just stats. We see this each season, where teammates simply don't mesh, and thus the "team" is not good.

I'm not a Lebron fan. I don't like him. I won't include him on my starting 5 team. He can use the woman's restroom if he wants. Those are our decisions.


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## Packout

80s- Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Isiah, Bird. 6th man- McKell
90s- Jordan, Hakeem, Payton, Malone, Reggie. 6th man- Stockton
00s- Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, Nowtizki, Allen. 6th man- Duncan
10s- Durrant, James, Curry, Leonard, Davis. 6th man- Giannis 

Some hard choices there. Probably should switch out Stockton for Rodman, but my heart wouldn't allow it....

..


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## Catherder

Since the original criteria was apparently only a starting 5 from all 3 decades put together, I would go with these. These aren't necessarily my "favorites" over the years but the starting 5 I think would beat all comers. 

LeBron; superb facilitator that has guarded all 5 positions in his career and the scoring speaks for itself. 
MJ; Generally considered the GOAT. Superb offense and lock down defense. 
Kobe; For this discussion, MJ lite, doing all the things Jordan did. Can any defensive scheme stop a lineup with 2 scoring wings like that with an elite facilitator setting them up?
Karl Malone; dominant inside and midrange scorer, good defender with the quickness not to be excessively exploited and the bulk to not get pushed around. His athleticism would fit well with the modern game too.
Duncan; I've always been a fan of the "big fundamental" and he would be a superb defensive anchor along with a provider of needed scoring and facilitation. 

6th man; KD. perhaps the most unstoppable offensive force of all and his "D" improved markedly when he joined the dubs.


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## Vanilla

PBH said:


> 'Nilla -- you probably think Draymond Green is a great defensive player too, right?


He's a good defensive player, I would not classify him as great. But I might do that simply because I don't say things are great if they aren't. :grin:

Not sure what that has to do with my comment though?

I realize it is heresy to say anything critical of Michael Jordan in any basketball discussion, but you guys do remember that the year he retired (the first time) the Bulls still won 55 games and were a bad call away from being in the Eastern Conference Finals, right? That team had some players on it. MJ was great, but I think some of the reality of their situation gets lost in the hero worship of Jordan.


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## 3arabians

Catherder said:


> Since the original criteria was apparently only a starting 5 from all 3 decades put together, I would go with these. These aren't necessarily my "favorites" over the years but the starting 5 I think would beat all comers.
> 
> LeBron; superb facilitator that has guarded all 5 positions in his career and the scoring speaks for itself.
> 
> MJ; Generally considered the GOAT. Superb offense and lock down defense.
> 
> Kobe; For this discussion, MJ lite, doing all the things Jordan did. Can any defensive scheme stop a lineup with 2 scoring wings like that with an elite facilitator setting them up?
> 
> Karl Malone; dominant inside and midrange scorer, good defender with the quickness not to be excessively exploited and the bulk to not get pushed around. His athleticism would fit well with the modern game too.
> 
> Duncan; I've always been a fan of the "big fundamental" and he would be a superb defensive anchor along with a provider of needed scoring and facilitation.
> 
> 6th man; KD. perhaps the most unstoppable offensive force of all and his "D" improved markedly when he joined the dubs.


THIS!! ^^^^^

I would just throw in a wildcard with Rodman as the 6th man to add a specialist in defense and rebounding in place of KD to bring some balance and add some funk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla

LeBron
Shaq
CPAJeff
Vanilla
PBH

Who is going to beat us?


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## Hunttilidrop

3A, Huntilidrop, MJ, Tim Duncan and you guys can pick our other player. ^^^😜


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## CPAjeff

^^^ You can have Pippen - we don't want to run you out of the gym that easily . . . ;-)


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## taxidermist

Wo, wo, wo. What about Ostertag?? (? spelling of name) He may not have been a great Center, but he sure was funny as He!! hunting turkeys! 


As a coach goes----- I'd have to pick Phil. I honestly believe if he would have been the coach when the Jazz were in the finals, Utah would have had a championship.


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## Hunttilidrop

I think we’d rather play 4 against 5 then take Osty! I really don’t think you guys know who your messing with! I’ll have you know that me and 3a took on my twin step sons in a 2/2 half court matchup and we won! They are flat out ballers too! They play 2 or 3 times a week at some very competitive church gyms. And have been playing since they were big enough to walk! There was about a 21 year age difference (them 21 us 42) and me and jake hadn’t played a serious game in probably 15 years! It dang near killed us both and there was a few unregulated time outs call by 3a in the process that help save my life as well but we WON! 😁


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## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> How often have we seen teams fail due to lack of chemistry? There is more to making a great team than just stats. We see this each season, where teammates simply don't mesh, and thus the "team" is not good.
> 
> I'm not a Lebron fan. I don't like him. I won't include him on my starting 5 team. He can use the woman's restroom if he wants. Those are our decisions.


Hard to call 9 finals "failure" and especially assume it was chemistry.

Not sure why you mention the restroom. I understand it's your decision, I was looking for a reason and yours was to say Larry a better shooter, teammate, and leader, so I dug deeper since I disagreed. I was looking for extra criteria outside of "she's fat and I don't like her" lol.

It was genuine curiosity and you just answered it with this one. That's all.

W2U listed why he picked others- the context was cool. Others are as well, it adds substance.


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## 3arabians

Hunttilidrop said:


> I think we'd rather play 4 against 5 then take Osty! I really don't think you guys know who your messing with! I'll have you know that me and 3a took on my twin step sons in a 2/2 half court matchup and we won! They are flat out ballers too! They play 2 or 3 times a week at some very competitive church gyms. And have been playing since they were big enough to walk! There was about a 21 year age difference (them 21 us 42) and me and jake hadn't played a serious game in probably 15 years! It dang near killed us both and there was a few unregulated time outs call by 3a in the process that help save my life as well but we WON! &#128513;


That was an epic victory. Winning and the not dying part.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla

I’m actually not planning on playing. I just threw myself into the lineup so I’d make sure I had a seat to watch LeBron and Shaq beat anyone you could think about throwing at them.


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## PBH

Random -- I get it. You're a Lebron fan. I'm not. Why do I need to justify that to you?

But....I don't like him because he turns everything, including Kobe's death, into a story about himself. I've never seen someone so concerned with being the center of attention. I don't like him.


If you want substance on my starting 5, I'll provide it:

PG - Payton. He's the "glove" for good reason. He was a relentless defender, that could score at will and rack up assists at the same time. He had never-ending energy. He was John Stockton's kryptonite.

SG - Jordan. Why would we not include the GOAT?

SF - Bird. He's going to tell you the play before it happens. He'll tell you "I'm getting the ball in this spot and then I'm going to shoot it and make it." Then he does it. I'll take him.

PF - Giannis. He can shoot from 3. He can take you off the drible. He can post. It doesn't matter where he gets the ball -- he's going to dunk it. Oh, and he can play defense.

C -- Shaq. He's completely dominating on the boards and in the post. And if any other center starts to get into his head....he'll simply slap them with an open hand to the face, then glare at you while you grovel on the ground. Can you say "career ender"?


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## RandomElk16

Lol.. ok.


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## wyoming2utah

taxidermist said:


> As a coach goes----- I'd have to pick Phil. I honestly believe if he would have been the coach when the Jazz were in the finals, Utah would have had a championship.


This thought makes me want to puke. The Jazz and the triangle would have been as bad as Shaq trying to spread the floor and shoot the three in a Euro style pick-n-roll offense.

Phil never did anything as a coach without a bunch of superstars on his teams. Almost anyone could have coached Jordan, Pippen, Rodman etc. and Kobe and Shaq to the Championship. Why give him so much credit?

I'd take Sloan any day of the week over Phil.


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> Lol.. Lower FG% and TS%.


Are you arguing that Lebron was a better shooter than Bird? Going by those metrics above, that is like saying Gobert is the best shooter in the NBA right now because his TS% is the highest. Is that really what you are saying?


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## CPAjeff

Along the lines of a coach, I had thought about Kerr - since he played for Phil and Pop. However, he took over a team that Mark Jackson assembled, added KD a few years into the process... It'll be interesting to see how GS gets going again when everyone is back and healthy.

I'd have either Jerry or Pop be the coach.


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> Are you arguing that Lebron was a better shooter than Bird? Going by those metrics above, that is like saying Gobert is the best shooter in the NBA right now because his TS% is the highest. Is that really what you are saying?


Here are where Rudy takes his shots from:









So if you want to play stupid that's up to you. I'm not spending my day digging into advanced analytics. Larry was a hell of a shooter. I'm just not giving him this massive edge for that, or teammate or leadership. I'm not taking away from him in those categories either.


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## RandomElk16

CPAjeff said:


> Along the lines of a coach, I had thought about Kerr - since he played for Phil and Pop. However, he took over a team that Mark Jackson assembled, added KD a few years into the process... It'll be interesting to see how GS gets going again when everyone is back and healthy.
> 
> I'd have either Jerry or Pop be the coach.


I started thinking about how you would coach THAT much talent.

Do we take 3 time Olympic gold medalist Coach K? Lol.


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## CPAjeff

^^^ It's interesting to hear what NBA players have said about playing for Coach K on those Olympic teams. The players seem to have a massive amount of respect for him. Plus, him having a record of 75-1 when coaching the USA National Team shows he can get everyone to buy into a system.


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## PBH

CPAjeff said:


> ...I had thought about Kerr... It'll be interesting to see how GS gets going again when everyone is back and healthy.


Coach of the Year awards are weird. You give a guy a loaded roster, and then you call him a "great coach". Yet, take away the superstars and the team ends up with the worst record in the NBA. The coach is the same coach. What happened??? Wouldn't a "great coach", somone who has won the Coach of the Year award, be able to win a few more games simply because he is a great coach?

I've always thought the same thing with Phil Jackson. Take away Jordan, Pippin, Shaq, Kobe.....how well does Jackson and his "great coaching" go when he has no superstar to carry the team? Same with Popovich.

I'd probably take John Wooden.


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> Here are where Rudy takes his shots from:
> 
> View attachment 140153
> 
> 
> So if you want to play stupid that's up to you. I'm not spending my day digging into advanced analytics. Larry was a hell of a shooter. I'm just not giving him this massive edge for that, or teammate or leadership. I'm not taking away from him in those categories either.


You mean then that Lebron's shots are taken further out than Bird's? Come on....if anyone is playing stupid it is you!

Lebron is not a better shooter than Bird was. Trying to back that up with FG% and TS% won't support that. Sorry, that idea that Lebron is a better shooter is just stupid (to use your word). When Lebron has just one 50-40-90 season, come back and talk to me about who the better shooter was. Until then, Bird has a huge edge.

If you want to argue that Lebron was a better player, fine. You can back that up. No way in hell he was a better shooter.


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## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> Coach of the Year awards are weird. You give a guy a loaded roster, and then you call him a "great coach".


Especially since Luke Walton coached how many of the games that year while he was out? And they still were destroying the league!

What's Luke record since then lol..

Hard to discredit Phil... but we know from the Knicks his style of coaching isn't timeless.


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> You mean then that Lebron's shots are taken further out than Bird's? Come on....if anyone is playing stupid it is you!
> 
> Lebron is not a better shooter than Bird was. Trying to back that up with FG% and TS% won't support that. Sorry, that idea that Lebron is a better shooter is just stupid (to use your word).
> 
> If you want to argue that Lebron was a better player, fine. You can back that up. No way in hell he was a better shooter.


I mean Rudy doesn't compare to those two because he hasn't made a shot past 9 feet this year. Larry certainly took mid ranges!

I said Rudy.. so... Not sure how you got that Larry shots weren't taken from far out.

I also didn't say Lebron is a better shooter, I just don't think he is worse.


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## wyoming2utah

He is definitely worse from the 3-point line and from the foul line. And, Lebron isn't done. If his career stats follow the same trajectory as most players, his overall FG% could very easily dip below Bird's. IF you were to dig into the advanced stats, I bet you would fine that Lebron has more dunks, layups, and tipins (more shots in the paint) than Bird too...all of those skew that FG%.


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> He is definitely worse from the 3-point line and from the foul line. And, Lebron isn't done. If his career stats follow the same trajectory as most players, his overall FG% could very easily dip below Bird's. IF you were to dig into the advanced stats, I bet you would fine that Lebron has more dunks, layups, and tipins (more shots in the paint) than Bird too...all of those skew that FG%.


FT for sure.

Lebron takes 3x as many 3pt. Since you brought up Rudy, we can bring up Dwight being 60% from 3 this year  I wish some of the analytics nerds could dig through all the data on these old timers but it would be an insane task. We know Lebron takes 36% of shots inside 3 feet, 12% from 3-10 feet, and has made 1874 dunks, which are 8% of his FGA. We don't know that with the 80s dudes. I can't even believe we know that stuff now!

Again, I wasn't taking anything from Larry.

Your age analysis is interesting.. Larry Bird's last season was when he was 35, which Lebron is this season. I can't imagine Bron hanging it up with how he is playing right now. So how do we take into account Lebron's next few years since he will be older than most and have substantially more miles? Part of why I hate when people call Lebron soft.. He has only missed like 8% of career games while playing so many hard minutes, which is an old school thing (that wore those guys down). Those 40 MPG were hard on Larry! But would we trade that for more years? Doubtful.

Lebron is playing against guys who play 30mpg and miss 15-20% of games. Kawhi has missed over 30% of his career games and his new pace (last year and this) is 60 games. 27% of the season load managed. No one calls him soft though...

I don't think Larry is a bad choice at all. The Barkley one got me a little more lol.


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## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> No one calls him soft though...


I think Kawhi is soft. 

OK -- here is a great comparison, and it will make you chuckle.

1. Google "Larry Bird fights".
2. watch any number of youtube video results. 
3. Google "Lebron James fights".
4. watch any number of youtube video results.

What did you see?

In the Larry Bird fights results we saw punches, wrestling on the floor, bodies flying, tough guys being tough guys.

In the Lebron James fights results we see dancing and talking. It's pretty scary. (Lebron gets tough when his teammates hold him back!)

Good times for sure. Today's game is certainly different than yesterday's game.

#TOTP


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## RandomElk16

Lol.. Google any NBA fights now. They don't exist and aren't allowed for a reason. 

Malice in the Palace was the final straw. Should have seen the fights before Kermit Washington changed the league forever.

Every sport adopts new policies. That doesn't have anything to do with being soft or hard, it's the era. I firmly believe Lebron physically and skill wise would have been just fine in the 80's, granted his game would have been a bit different. I however am not sure Steph Curry would have survived a game against the bad boys lol... Larry had to deal with so much crap from them!

Edit: Which reminds me again of that entire Celtics frontcourt. Parish was a freaking beast and more people should know his name.


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## PBH

RandomElk16 said:


> I firmly believe Lebron physically and skill wise would have been just fine in the 80's, granted his game would have been a bit different.


I agree.

But how would he have dealt with the social media? Not having a platform would have been hard for him...


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## Hunttilidrop

Do i need to post up the video of Barkley throwing the ball into Shaqs face then dodging his punch and tackling him to the ground and winning the fight... nuff said.


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## PBH

Hunttilidrop said:


> Do i need to post up the video of Barkley throwing the ball into Shaqs face then dodging his punch and tackling him to the ground and winning the fight... nuff said.


In the background you can see Lebron telling his friends "hold me back while I pretend to join the fracas!"


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## RandomElk16

PBH said:


> I agree.
> 
> But how would he have dealt with the social media? Not having a platform would have been hard for him...


Somehow all of us survived our early years without this forum, because we didn't even know it existed. My kids need a tablet and all I needed was some bricks and a sheet of plywood for bike jumps.

It all would have been different.


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## RandomElk16

Hunttilidrop said:


> Do i need to post up the video of Barkley throwing the ball into Shaqs face then dodging his punch and tackling him to the ground and winning the fight... nuff said.


None of which has anything to do with winning a 7 game series. They were suspended 1 game... a bunch of people still cry that the Cavs only won because the Warriors 3rd best player missed one game.

So people want one of the biggest superstars, role models, and faces of the league to fight people? Imagine having the responsibility to where every single thing you say and move you make is looked at and critiqued. Someone even said he made Kobe death about him... how? Because like every other star in the world he made an IG post? But he even waited to do it because he was grief stricken? But wait.. that means he didn't care and was blasted on IG for NOT saying anything. Lose Lose.

I imagine that type of constant look into him impacts his life. If he told a teammate he was going to break his legs so he could never play ball again (MJ did), could you imagine the implications of that today?

I simply understand different era's mean different actions.


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## Hunttilidrop

Well... if your going to pick a team that played in the 2000’s 2010’s it’s going to have to beat the 90’s team I chose the way they played at that time and vice a versa. So with all that’s been said I still believe my squad wins in a seven game series. Hey, CPA I’m I stepping out of bounds making rules to your thread or am I ok...


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## CPAjeff

Hunttilidrop said:


> Hey, CPA I'm I stepping out of bounds making rules to your thread or am I ok...


The only rule is there are no rules on this thread!!!

Now, if we were talking about something like:

Which is better, mechanical or fixed broadheads?
Is a 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 PRC fine for elk?
Do CoreLokts still kill animals?
Republican or Democrat?

We would have to have more rules . . .


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> Someone even said he made Kobe death about him... how?


I'm not sure who said that or why, but I'll take a crack anyway...

...what rubbed me wrong about Lebron's response was that he said, "I promise you I'll continue your legacy." I don't know what you think as a Lebron-lover, but for someone who doesn't like him...well, I am just not sure why Kobe's legacy is now up to Lebron. In fact, I think Kobe has done just fine in ensuring that his legacy will live on. And, to even take it a step further, I would hope that Kobe's remaining kids and wife will carry that legacy much better than Lebron could ever even dream of. To me, the very thought that it is up to Lebron to carry on Kobe's legacy is pretty damned arrogant and self-aggrandizing. But, what do I know...


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> I'm not sure who said that or why, but I'll take a crack anyway...
> 
> ...what rubbed me wrong about Lebron's response was that he said, "I promise you I'll continue your legacy." I don't know what you think as a Lebron-lover, but for someone who doesn't like him...well, I am just not sure why Kobe's legacy is now up to Lebron. In fact, I think Kobe has done just fine in ensuring that his legacy will live on. And, to even take it a step further, I would hope that Kobe's remaining kids and wife will carry that legacy much better than Lebron could ever even dream of. To me, the very thought that it is up to Lebron to carry on Kobe's legacy is pretty damned arrogant and self-aggrandizing. But, what do I know...


Seems like a fine example of nit-picking things. Who really knows what to say in death? The beginning of the post was "I'm not ready but here I go" and "trying to write".

If only we could all be perfect.

But what do I know...


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## T-dubs-42

I'm only going to build a dream team for the 2010's and as far as well-rounded teams there are way too many that you could make that would dominate, so I'm doing extreme offense and extreme defense only.

Offensive Juggernaut 
PG: Dame Dolla (clutch factor is why he beats steph)
SG: MJ 
SF: Bron
PF: KD
C: Shaq 
6th man: Kobe

Defensive dream
PG: Gary Payton 
SG: MJ 
SF: Dennis Rodman 
PF: KG
C: Hakeem 
6th man: Kawhi


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## 3arabians

T-dubs-42 said:


> I'm only going to build a dream team for the 2010's and as far as well-rounded teams there are way too many that you could make that would dominate, so I'm doing extreme offense and extreme defense only.
> 
> Offensive Juggernaut
> 
> PG: Dame Dolla (clutch factor is why he beats steph)
> 
> SG: MJ
> 
> SF: Bron
> 
> PF: KD
> 
> C: Shaq
> 
> 6th man: Kobe
> 
> Defensive dream
> 
> PG: Gary Payton
> 
> SG: MJ
> 
> SF: Dennis Rodman
> 
> PF: KG
> 
> C: Hakeem
> 
> 6th man: Kawhi


I like it! I scratched my head for a bit and finally googled dame dolla to get on board.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomElk16

T-dubs-42 said:


> I'm only going to build a dream team for the 2010's and as far as well-rounded teams there are way too many that you could make that would dominate, so I'm doing extreme offense and extreme defense only.
> 
> Offensive Juggernaut
> PG: Dame Dolla (clutch factor is why he beats steph)
> SG: MJ
> SF: Bron
> PF: KD
> C: Shaq
> 6th man: Kobe
> 
> Defensive dream
> PG: Gary Payton
> SG: MJ
> SF: Dennis Rodman
> PF: KG
> C: Hakeem
> 6th man: Kawhi


I like the Dame Dolla addition! While he has had some rough playoffs, he also stuck it to PG and Russ lol.

Dame being a Utah guy, and with your Defensive Dream, it made me think of a video the other day of Mark Eaton making the most passive 'lift my arm up slowly and grab the ball out of his hand while my feet don't move' block the other day. Almost forgot he was a 2x DPOY so I wouldn't mind him being on an all defense roster(1 of the 15).

My grandpa was gifted a signed shoe of his when he retired from Hercules. Man had some FEET!

Edit: Didn't even recall he is 4th on all time blocks!


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> Seems like a fine example of nit-picking things. Who really knows what to say in death? The beginning of the post was "I'm not ready but here I go" and "trying to write".
> 
> If only we could all be perfect.
> 
> But what do I know...


Yup...lots of "I's" in there. It's always about Lebron....if he would have just talked about Kobe, he wouldn't have opened himself up so much. But, he just couldn't help but talk about himself. Sad, that he has to do that when someone else dies....definitely self-aggrandizing. I do know that.


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> Yup...lots of "I's" in there. It's always about Lebron....if he would have just talked about Kobe, he wouldn't have opened himself up so much. But, he just couldn't help but talk about himself. Sad, that he has to do that when someone else dies....definitely self-aggrandizing. I do know that.


Lol - This says more about you than him.


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## PBH

I don't think W2U is "nit-picking". In fact, there are a lot of articles out there that point out exactly the narcissistic qualities of James. Here's an old one:

https://sports.cbslocal.com/2015/05/27/lebron-james-cavaliers-nba-finals/

How 'bout the orange peel hate crime?


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## 3arabians

PBH said:


> I don't think W2U is "nit-picking". In fact, there are a lot of articles out there that point out exactly the narcissistic qualities of James. Here's an old one:
> 
> https://sports.cbslocal.com/2015/05/27/lebron-james-cavaliers-nba-finals/
> 
> How 'bout the orange peel hate crime?


https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2017/06/jason_whitlock_slams_lebron_ja.html

Here is a newer read about LeBron's personality. Great ball player no doubt but this stuff bugs me about him as a human.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomElk16

They asked about HIM, so first he responded about himself then in the same answer said:

"To know how far we've come as a group. To know how unexperienced we are as a unit playing together, I think that's special in it's own right. No matter what happens from here on out to see what we've accomplished being a first year team together that's had different changes throughout the course of the season, that's faced so many obstacles throughout the course of the season . Injuries here, transactions here, lineups here. Something we can be very proud of to this point."

We,group,we,together,I(think it's special),we,team,together,we

Next question he deferred to both his teammates first and his answer was at halftime the team should focus on getting other teammates (Deep bench - Joe Harris) on the floor. Giving them an opportunity.


It's funny how much you guys put into things. Self righteousness is funnier than the biggest sports star in American sports saying "I" when asked a question about him.


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## RandomElk16

3arabians said:


> https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2017/06/jason_whitlock_slams_lebron_ja.html
> 
> Here is a newer read about LeBron's personality. Great ball player no doubt but this stuff bugs me about him as a human.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol.. Whitlock is a clown. You want his quotes on fighting racism?

"This whole 'Let's take on racism in America.' That's so big; that's the equivalent of 'Let's fight air in the world.' Racial bigotry and unfairness along racial lines has been in the world since the beginning of time. It's not going to go away."

"We're trying to fix people's feelings. And I don't think what Kaepernick understands - and some other people don't understand - is the 1960s were about changing fixing laws. [In] America, you can address laws; you can't legislate feelings - and it's stupid!"

"Because once you start legislating feelings, the next thing you know their legislating my feelings. My father's feelings. And it's not the right thing to do. It can't be done. It will lead to anarchy and rebellion. You can't start legislating people's feelings. And, again, many of my feelings are inappropriate. I don't want them legislated against."

He is only correct you can't "legislate feelings". He mocks ALL athletes who bring up racism and basically says don't try and change it. That's fine and dandy, but a lot of people actually feel quite different about Lebron and other big names using their platforms. While I don't disagree that Financial status can protect you from things, you don't forfeit your race.

Hell, if I was rich I would arguable fight these hunting laws we hate even more, when I could just say "screw you sucka's, I am buying an Alton tag."

(Full disclosure I may still buy that tag, but I would also try and be on the Wildlife Board.:mrgreen


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## Vanilla

I have stayed out of the LeBron the person debate here as this seems to be a thread about who the best basketball players are. However, I will note that I find it interesting, if not troubling, that the source of one's ire about his personality is LeBron not being happy about someone painting the N word on his property. 

I'm not even black and I would be bothered if someone did that on my fence. I'm trying to figure out why that one instance of his personality is so bothersome to someone? Help me out here, will ya? 

And I was not aware that racism was only against poor people. I learn something new every day!


PS- LeBron is in any starting 5 I would ever assemble, using any rules or time periods anyone else wants to use. And I assure you, my team will win.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> However, I will note that I find it interesting, if not troubling, that the source of one's ire about his personality is LeBron not being happy about someone painting the N word on his property.
> 
> I'm not even black and I would be bothered if someone did that on my fence.


There are legitimate questions about that incident: Did it ever even happen? the allegedly painted word on the gate had been painted over before police ever arrived and there was 1 photo of the gate ever taken...., the security camera on the gate was not working, the word itself does not mean a racial hate crime happened -- maybe it was done by a black person trying to draw attention to racism?

So having a sportswriter use that incident may make some sense, consider all the details, or lack thereof, surrounding it.

His constant pulling of that race card does bother me.
An ethnic minority 8 year-old kid, desperately reaching for Bronny's attention by tossing an orangle peel at him, is then accused of inciting racial hate by Lebron! Seriously? That little kid needs a new favorite player....


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## Vanilla

Constantly pulling the race card? Dramatic, much? 

I think there are a lot of things we can criticize LeBron James for, just like any one of us can be criticized if we dove down into our lives the level people are able into his. That said, I still find it odd that THIS is the incident shared to illustrate a character flaw. But, I’m over it. Back to basketball. LeBron is better than anyone you’ve put on any of your lists. 

Yes, better than every single one of them. Put that in your pipe and smoke it! 

Getting these guys in their absolute prime, this is a really tough discussion. A fun one, nonetheless. 

LeBron
Shaq
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen 
Dirk Nowitzki 

Not all of them are the biggest names or even the best individual players. But stop this team from scoring. I dare ya to try.


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## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> Getting these guys in their absolute prime, this is a really tough discussion. A fun one, nonetheless.
> 
> LeBron Scotty Pippen
> Shaq Hack-A-Shaq
> Reggie Miller KOBE
> Ray Allen Shane Battier
> Dirk Nowitzki Dennis Rodman
> 
> Not all of them are the biggest names or even the best individual players. But stop this team from scoring. I dare ya to try.


See my lock down defenders in red. Next.


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## 3arabians

RandomElk16 said:


> Lol.. Whitlock is a clown. You want his quotes on fighting racism?
> 
> "This whole 'Let's take on racism in America.' That's so big; that's the equivalent of 'Let's fight air in the world.' Racial bigotry and unfairness along racial lines has been in the world since the beginning of time. It's not going to go away."
> 
> "We're trying to fix people's feelings. And I don't think what Kaepernick understands - and some other people don't understand - is the 1960s were about changing fixing laws. [In] America, you can address laws; you can't legislate feelings - and it's stupid!"
> 
> "Because once you start legislating feelings, the next thing you know their legislating my feelings. My father's feelings. And it's not the right thing to do. It can't be done. It will lead to anarchy and rebellion. You can't start legislating people's feelings. And, again, many of my feelings are inappropriate. I don't want them legislated against."
> 
> He is only correct you can't "legislate feelings". He mocks ALL athletes who bring up racism and basically says don't try and change it. That's fine and dandy, but a lot of people actually feel quite different about Lebron and other big names using their platforms. While I don't disagree that Financial status can protect you from things, you don't forfeit your race.
> 
> Hell, if I was rich I would arguable fight these hunting laws we hate even more, when I could just say "screw you sucka's, I am buying an Alton tag."
> 
> (Full disclosure I may still buy that tag, but I would also try and be on the Wildlife Board.:mrgreen


Ya, I get it, I guess. It goes against my personal code of conduct on this forum to even generate a post like I did. Lebron must bug me more than I thought. The whole reaction he had to bron jr getting a piece of paper or whatever is was thrown at his back from what turned out to be a young and adoring fan just wanting attention is what really kind of pushed me over the edge. I have got to stop watching so much TV, get off my ass and go try and fill my turkey tag before the season ends.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vanilla

CPAjeff said:


> See my lock down defenders in red. Next.


As Chad Johnson said, child please...


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