# Proposed hunt dates for 2011 thru 2014



## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

This has allready been posted on a couple other threads......
But it might deserve its own topic.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh17 ... cture2.png

I love it! Hope it passes. Gwailow has it posted on the deer/elk calender thread also.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

looks like it could be confusing as hell but i like it!


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

How can I get a "readable copy" of this calendar? Do you know how serious they are about this or are they just trying to get us upset enough to attend RAC meetings?


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Huh? I think the proposal is great. I posted the elk dates in the other thread and yes, this is the DWR's recommendation to the board.

BB, email me and I'll send you a copy.

T


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Bears Butt said:


> How can I get a "readable copy" of this calendar? Do you know how serious they are about this or are they just trying to get us *upset enough* to attend RAC meetings?


Or happy, however you look at it. This is the best thing I have saw come out of a meeting in a while.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's an easier way:

http://bowhuntersofutah.net/index.php/f ... posal.html

Just click on the link in the thread.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I've said it before many times. The 5/9 day deer rifle season is the single biggest problem with hunting in Utah. It concentrates hunters to the point of compromising safety, destroying hunter experience, and causing environmental damage due to the intensity of use on the habitats for that time. With tag numbers capped, there is no excuse to concentrate hunters with 5/9 day seasons.


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## burge (Sep 11, 2007)

and start the hunts in the middle of the week, when peaple who are are serious about hunting will MAKE the time to be there.


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## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

I Love it!!!!


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

It looks pretty good. The archery dates look sweet! I would support option 2 over option 1 because I don't think Muzzy and Archery hunts should be happening at the same time.


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## Fly22 (Sep 16, 2007)

I like it with the exception to the GS muzz deer and GS muzz elk shouldn'y be right after the GS rifle deer. I think they should keep the GS deer during the LE muzz elk hunt.

I do like the GS ML early or late options for elk though.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Elk dates:

From what I can see, everyone sacrifices a little. LE elk archers go from a 24 day hunt to a 10 day hunt but get an extra week in the rut. Rifle guys take the second part of the rut. With option one, the LE elk archers end up hunting together with the muzzy hunters the first part of the rut, then the rifle hunters take over after that. With option two, archers get the hunt to themselves and the muzzy moves until the end of the LATE rifle. Now that doesnt make any sense at all. The muzzy guys are getting really screwed there, with TWO rifle hunts before their primitive weapon hunt. I feel bad for them, and although I bow hunt, I would prefer to see option one pass and be hunting my bow elk tag with a few muzzy guys than see a fellow group of hunters get bent over with two rifle hunts before they get in the field. If option two is the choice, I would like to see the Late Rifle done away with and make those dates and tags all part of the LE muzzy. That would be more fair for them in my opinion.

Deer dates: 

I am not sure what to think of the deer dates. While I a happy to see that the archery didnt change, and I feel good about there being two seasons for rifle to help reduce pressure, I just dont know what to think about putting the muzzy right in the middle of the rifle seasons. I would like to see more opinions shared on this, wouldnt it make more sense to place the muzzy in place of the early rifle and run the rifle seasons back to back. Once again, I think the muzzy guys are getting the shaft a little here.


My overall feeling is these changes are a good thing, I know it would be a challenge to balance all these seasons into a few months and make everyone happy. I will admit I was disappointed to see that they are still running the rifle hunt in the rut, but we archers have to give little to get a little which translates into an extra week into the rut.


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## Fly22 (Sep 16, 2007)

I think us Muzzy guys would be getting the shaft.

We either need to speak out or dust off the bows.

If I could have my druthers I would take the old Nov Muzzy deer hunt back. Let us hunt deer and elk at the same time.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I just wish they would take it one step farther and eliminate spike hunting,,,,

Then about 2015 start ramping up mature bull tags. Then I'd be a happy camper.


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## apollosmith (Jun 29, 2008)

So if they offer an early and a late General Season Deer hunt and you have an option to do both, is there ANYBODY who wouldn't choose both? Or will the price be exorbitantly higher to do both, thus possibly discouraging some? I'm confused by this. If you can hunt both seasons, instead of having 9 days of intense pressure, there will be 9 X 2 days of intense pressure.

I'm not perfectly happy with either option, but I think they are making progress. That 2-week LE Late Rifle Elk in Option 1 hunt looks pretty sweet and would likely draw some hunters away from earlier or primitive weapon hunts.

If too much pressure is the issue, both options really condense the intense pressure to 4 weeks in October rather than spread out over a longer time period. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I would assume one would have to choose 1 season or the other, thus reducing crowding on both hunts.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> I've said it before many times. The 5/9 day deer rifle season is the single biggest problem with hunting in Utah. It concentrates hunters to the point of compromising safety, destroying hunter experience, and causing environmental damage due to the intensity of use on the habitats for that time. With tag numbers capped, there is no excuse to concentrate hunters with 5/9 day seasons.


This is why they are proposing a 2nd rifle hunt. It spreads out the hunters and gives them some breathing room. The deer will also have a chance to run to the other side of the hill and maybe not get shot at 50 times along the way. Also having the hunts start in the week instead of starting them on a saturday will help this out.


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## apollosmith (Jun 29, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> The deer will also have a chance to run to the other side of the hill and maybe not get shot at 50 times along the way.


While the pressure for the 5/9 days might be insane, the new options will result in high pressure for 27 straight days (9 days early rifle, 9 days muzzleloader, then 9 days late rifle). I just am not convinced that this is better for the deer herd.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

this is the way Colorado does their hunts. except Colorado has three rifle hunts


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Apollow 
have you ever hunted the extend or the front. this unit gets pounded for 4 months straight.

The deer learn after the first week to only come out at night. You simply wont see hardly any deer during sept oct cause of the pressure. Then November comes around and the deer become stupid again. 

Having a spread out season for deer with less people on it at any given time will help as long as you don't allow muzz or rifle or archery during the rut on general units.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

While I think this is great. it is going to drive the avrage hunter away due to confussion. The people I work with all hate it. They feel it is too hard and too much work as it is now to get tags so they will just stop hunting. I think it is great for hunters who care most weekend warriors will stop playing.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Utah sure likes making everything much more difficult than it should be..... Confuse the average hunter (I'd wager 90% of us visiting this site are more into it than the average guy), all while worrying about recruitment.

The season dates should remain the same as we currently have for general hunts, with a couple tweaks to limited entry elk tags:

-Gen and limited entry archery overlap. Gen archery ends and the limited entry archers get an additional week of the rut. 
-Give the rifle rut hunters 5 days. Also reduce the tags during the rifle rut. ( Maybe 10-20-30% ? ) 
-Then keep the ML hunt where it is.
-Then the General elk (if there is still a spike hunt- different topic) and Limited Entry elk go at the same time (current timing)
-Followed by the General deer (current dates)
-Last, the late elk rifle hunt.
-Keep the current Extended archery dates.

Is it really that hard? Do we really need to change the complete hunt structure? It sure seems that whenever we reduce hunter pressure then success rates go up. I hate the additional pressure added to our deer herds through this proposal.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

I think the deer are in great need of restructure, but not on hunt dates on tag numbers, the problem with quality and quantity is not the timing of the hunts, its the amount of tags given out. Come on Unlimited general archery elk tags,deer tags out the wazooo.

The way I would like to see it:

*General Archery deer*
Keep it region specific the entire hunt.
-Region specific the entire hunt would be good(and simple) simply because it would limit archery tags in regions, get rid of the change midway through the hunt from regional to statewide, and would get rid of the problem with the 5 deer units that are struggling closing down the last day of August. Region specific isn't very popular but if tag numbers are set right, it will do the state deer herds good, especially the 5 units the DWR already knows are struggling. 
-LE archery deer hunt length and time looks fine.

*Archery Elk*
-Changes I think would be good
*Limit the number of tags at around 15,000, that is a large number but for goodness sakes limit the tags somewhat, but unlimited is just crazy to do and not have people complain about overcrowding in areas.
*Also close back down the new spike hunting areas
*If they are kept open the only thing I ask is this make the tags specific, either a cow, spike, or any bull . There was a lot of confusion on the Monroe unit this year with people thinking they could shoot cows when they in fact could not.

And here's the hunt dates I would like to see, sorry I couldn't key the colors better, I did the best I could with the room on the calender I had. Oh and to simplify I left moose off the my charts. Let me know if I left any off:

[attachment=3:1gn4z2mh]august_2010_blank_calendar_thumb.jpg[/attachment:1gn4z2mh]
[attachment=2:1gn4z2mh]september_2010_blank_calendar_thumb.jpg[/attachment:1gn4z2mh]
[attachment=1:1gn4z2mh]october_2010_holiday_calendar_thumb.jpg[/attachment:1gn4z2mh]
[attachment=0:1gn4z2mh]november_2010_blank_calendar_thumb.jpg[/attachment:1gn4z2mh]


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> *General Archery deer*
> Keep it region specific the entire hunt.
> -Region specific the entire hunt would be good(and simple) simply because it would limit archery tags in regions, get rid of the change midway through the hunt from regional to statewide, and would get rid of the problem with the 5 deer units that are struggling closing down the last day of August. Region specific isn't very popular but if tag numbers are set right, it will do the state deer herds good, especially the 5 units the DWR already knows are struggling.
> -LE archery deer hunt length and time looks fine.


The success rate is so low and did any of the whiners in the south see any improvement this year in supposed "pressure" this year to justify any regional restriction? I really don't care personally, it just irks me to see such an insignificant, yet very loud and squeeky wheel get all of the grease (attention). I sure hope that a lot of the ignorant homers of the south did not draw this year to better show the resuls of such a stupid change requested by rifle hunters of all people.


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## for fun (Sep 13, 2007)

Wow...Its kind of confusing.. But given the option I would pick #1... I enjoy hunting with a muzzleloader and I hope the archery guys wouldn't mind us hunting with them. If not I will just start putting in for LE archery Elk... I do the GS archery elk now anyways. My other question is since I am a dedicated hunter how do the GS deer seasons play out there?


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## Bergy (Apr 3, 2008)

When do find out which option will be made?


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

for fun said:


> Wow...Its kind of confusing.. But given the option I would pick #1... I enjoy hunting with a muzzleloader and I hope the archery guys wouldn't mind us hunting with them. If not I will just start putting in for LE archery Elk... I do the GS archery elk now anyways. My other question is since I am a dedicated hunter how do the GS deer seasons play out there?


I made a mistake with the BOU link. Those are the old dates that they were looking at. My apologies.

The actual recommended dates for general deer are(Which may be similar or the same, I didn't look):

Oct. 4-12, Early rifle.

Oct. 13-21, Muzzy.

Oct. 22-30, Rifle.


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## big bull donw (Apr 21, 2009)

bergy, we'll know after the nov. RACs and dec. board meetings.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The idiocy of such a decision is they fail to take into account that hunters will redistribute among weapon types. They want to reduce pressure by splitting the rifle deer hunt. Ok thats valid, but to push smokepoles in between two rifle seasons will only result in most frontstuffers changing their weapon types.

Archers were plenty pissed off about the cap on southern tags, how will they feel when 10,000 frontstuffers switch weapon types? If even 10% go to archery, thats another 1000 people Archers have to compete with for tags. Ditto for the rifle hunt, they split the season to reduce pressure, well with most of the smokepolers switching over to rifle will eliminate any supposed "pressure reduction". Split the deer season if you must, but smokepoles have to go first for any decent change at tagging (or place it back after the normal rifle season, end of oct / first part of Nov).

I've hunted muzzleloader since it was the $10 extention to the rifle season... back when you could shoot TWO bucks per year (1 archery, 1 rifle/ml). If this change goes through I'll dearly miss my smokepole, but I will switch to another weapon type. Several of my muzzleloader friends are similarly planning a switch to something else if this goes through. If you could put together a survey among muzzleloader hunters, I'd guess support for this plan is well under 10%.

Utterly stupid.


-DallanC


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I will also change just might go for the early rifle hunt, still can take the muzz if I want. the rifle hunt is any weapon anyways.

there is a bennefit with this anyways if you have an in-line and would like to put a 3x9 scope on it for the rifle hunt, this will enable for this to happen. I do have the omega 3x9 for muzzle loaders looks like now I can use it for hunting deer.


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## LETTER-RIP (Sep 14, 2007)

The open bull unit needs to be archery for the whole month of sep.! We are trying to cram way to many hunts into a very little amount of time. Move the muzzy deer back to Nov. and the youth elk hunt on any bull units, can be moved to the LE units. Come up with a hunt on the LE units for them to hunt early. The open bull unit is small enough and so are the heard numbers. I could care less about LE. I want to hunt and at least have a chance of killing and elk every year. Not once or twice in my lifetime.
Until we get to hunt the month. of sep. like surrounding states, I will put my money in ID.WY's pockets.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

For the norm, Utah is a very simple state to figure out. Start hunting outside of Utah and you will see how fast things can get complex.

I feel like the idea of keeping things simple is hurting us. Everything in the state is different, different weather, topography, habitat, and predator pressure. And yet in the past we have managed the whole state as a single item. By breaking things up, like season dates, areas, and harvests. This will allow the state to better manage our game herds. 

Hunting is a evolving sport, nothing is the same for very long. The habitat and wildlife are always changing, so why shouldn't the hunters have to change with it?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

utfireman said:


> For the norm, Utah is a very simple state to figure out. Start hunting outside of Utah and you will see how fast things can get complex.
> 
> I feel like the idea of keeping things simple is hurting us. Everything in the state is different, different weather, topography, habitat, and predator pressure. And yet in the past we have managed the whole state as a single item. By breaking things up, like season dates, areas, and harvests. This will allow the state to better manage our game herds.
> 
> Hunting is a evolving sport, nothing is the same for very long. The habitat and wildlife are always changing, so why shouldn't the hunters have to change with it?


Best post yet!,,,,,,And sooooooooo true.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> utfireman said:
> 
> 
> > For the norm, Utah is a very simple state to figure out. Start hunting outside of Utah and you will see how fast things can get complex.
> ...


+1 TO THAT.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

How is putting 3 straight weeks of hunting pressure on deer a good thing? I am still trying to figure that one out.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

weatherby25 said:


> While I think this is great. it is going to drive the avrage hunter away due to confussion. The people I work with all hate it. They feel it is too hard and too much work as it is now to get tags so they will just stop hunting. I think it is great for hunters who care most weekend warriors will stop playing.


be careful what you wish for because the everage hunter buys his tag wich puts money towards the dwr and conservation.also the average hunter gets their kids involved wich preserves the future of our sport. without it people like us will have fewer animals and even less oppurtunity to tag trophy animals. bowhunter,rifle hunter or muzzyhunter the majority of us all have good intentions for the sport. bickering among and judging other hunters because they dont use the same weapon is just stupid.there are unethical bowhunters riflehunters and muzzy hunters not to get of the subject but it is almost laughable to hear one side think they are a better hunter because they shoot a differant weapon.it is a challenge to get an animal within bow range and it is a challenge to get the right ballistics to take a long distance shot with a rifle as for the new season dates i love them


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

> How is putting 3 straight weeks of hunting pressure on deer a good thing? I am still trying to figure that one out.


That a good question and point, yet Colorado has been able to do it now for almost 5 years. And we all know what has to take place to make that work. "A reduction in tags"

But you wont see that happening anytime soon. I am all for hunters being able to go out hunting every year. But what is going to keep young kids hunting year after year. Is it the time spent out in the woods? or the harvest of the animals?.

Limiting the amount of tags given out each year, will allow for less bucks to be harvested and will then increase the odds of a harvest when kids do have the tag.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

As an archery hunter I love these new dates. Also you would get 4 days more into Sept. for anybull next year.


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## Fly22 (Sep 16, 2007)

I would put my ML in storage and bring out the ole rifle if they use these dates. DWR if you read this you can count on me becoming a rifle hunter and most ML hunters. Throw that into your equation!


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

hazmat said:


> weatherby25 said:
> 
> 
> > While I think this is great. it is going to drive the avrage hunter away due to confussion. The people I work with all hate it. They feel it is too hard and too much work as it is now to get tags so they will just stop hunting. I think it is great for hunters who care most weekend warriors will stop playing.
> ...


You lost me hear. Your saying what I am saying. WE need the avrage hunter. Confussing the dates and what will drive them away not bring them in. That is not good for you me the state or even the heards.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

#1DEER 1-I said:


> [quote="goofy elk":20iwhrkr]
> 
> 
> utfireman said:
> ...


+1 TO THAT.[/quote:20iwhrkr]

And that WILL drive hunters away. I stoped hunting out of state as it is not worth it to me to figure out there dates rules regs etc. If Utah confusses the masses the masses will stop or limit there involment. Sure the dates are great for me and you but not for all.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Packout said:


> How is putting 3 straight weeks of hunting pressure on deer a good thing? I am still trying to figure that one out.


It is like hunting the front the deer will go nocturnal with more pressure. you simple wont see them during hunting hours.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

DallanC said:


> The idiocy of such a decision is they fail to take into account that hunters will redistribute among weapon types. They want to reduce pressure by splitting the rifle deer hunt. Ok thats valid, but to push smokepoles in between two rifle seasons will only result in most frontstuffers changing their weapon types.
> 
> Archers were plenty **** off about the cap on southern tags, how will they feel when 10,000 frontstuffers switch weapon types? If even 10% go to archery, thats another 1000 people Archers have to compete with for tags. Ditto for the rifle hunt, they split the season to reduce pressure, well with most of the smokepolers switching over to rifle will eliminate any supposed "pressure reduction". Split the deer season if you must, but smokepoles have to go first for any decent change at tagging (or place it back after the normal rifle season, end of oct / first part of Nov).
> 
> ...


you die hard muzzy guys might switch but I doubt it. even if you did a few rifle guys would just replace you. 
This is why!!!

It all comes down to the draw. you will have to gamble with the odds. pick the first season and you might not draw for three years. pick the last season and your odds might go up. pick a lesser weapon and the odds might go up again to draw.

If it were up to me I would increase the muzzy tags 10,000 and cut the rifle 10,000 to push more into a shorter range weapon.

If you muzzy guys happen to switch to archery then I would welcome you to the best choice you could ever make. The archery hunts in Utah are the shizz


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

The state needs to stop catering to the public, hunting is a privledge and not a right, Alot of people in Utah seem to forget that. I like the proposed changes, I think its a start to letting the DWR manage for herd objectives.

If you don't change then it's no one else's fault but your own. I bet those who complain about changes, are still hunting their parents old hunting grounds that have no animals on it. Any I am sure they say " I hunt here because there use to be animals here when they hunted, so there still must be some here now"

Changes are coming, heck life is nothing but changes. But to me it's very selfish for someone to say "I don't want changes, it makes things hard for me to figure out" Remember its a privledge and not a right.

I applaud the DWR for starting to think out of the box.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

+1 well said and can I also get a HALLELUJAH!!!!!


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## Yahtahay (Jul 3, 2008)

Quite honestly I don't care about the dates of any season but two...Archery Deer/Elk and Rifle Elk. Archery hunters should be able to hunt during the rut, Rifle hunters should not! Everything else season date wise I'm happy with but it sure is disappointing to hear about rifle hunters taking rutting elk while us archers get 1-2 days if we're lucky and that's pre-rut! Granted rifle is not the all out rut but it's still post-rut and bulls are still hanging with their harem. Why does it make sense to provide the highest harvest percentage with rifle when elk are at a huge disadvantage due to the rut?! Archery and LE Archery should run at the exact same time and shouldn't even start until Sept 1 and end on Sept 30. Youth hunts should be moved to the end of the hunt when elk aren't deep in the woods which would encourage youth due to high success.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I can live with these changes.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Yahtahay said:


> Quite honestly I don't care about the dates of any season but two...Archery Deer/Elk and Rifle Elk. Archery hunters should be able to hunt during the rut, Rifle hunters should not! Everything else season date wise I'm happy with but it sure is disappointing to hear about rifle hunters taking rutting elk while us archers get 1-2 days if we're lucky and that's pre-rut! Granted rifle is not the all out rut but it's still post-rut and bulls are still hanging with their harem. Why does it make sense to provide the highest harvest percentage with rifle when elk are at a huge disadvantage due to the rut?! Archery and LE Archery should run at the exact same time and shouldn't even start until Sept 1 and end on Sept 30. Youth hunts should be moved to the end of the hunt when elk aren't deep in the woods which would encourage youth due to high success.[/quo
> 
> be careful what you wish for if you put the archery elk hunt during the whole month of
> september(wich is not going to happen) or even the peak of the rut.you would see how many others hunters take up archery elk hunting.then the complaints would be i can not go anywhere without someone being in my spot.and nothing but cow calls and bugles all day long to have any hunt go all the way through the rut is stupid. elk need to reproduce and be left alone through a good portion of september(general season)


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

just dont like the muzzy hunt being between the two rifle hunts it need s to be either at the first hunt are give them a two week break and start a nine day hunt mid nov just before the rut. but in fact its just way to much preasure on these deer with out a break even the spikes that make it are going to be packing there bags and moving out of state.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

How would this affect Dedicated Hunters? Would they be able to hunt both rifle seasons or have to pick just one?


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

utfireman said:


> The state needs to stop catering to the public, hunting is a privledge and not a right, Alot of people in Utah seem to forget that. I like the proposed changes, I think its a start to letting the DWR manage for herd objectives.
> 
> If you don't change then it's no one else's fault but your own. I bet those who complain about changes, are still hunting their parents old hunting grounds that have no animals on it. Any I am sure they say " I hunt here because there use to be animals here when they hunted, so there still must be some here now"
> 
> ...


I hear ya but it is the public who pays the pays. You have to cater to them or the money stops. no money no way can the state do anything to help the herds. So yes it is a privlage but with out that privlage there is no funds. No funds no help. It is a bad cricle of life for all. But the state has to cater to people or the herd will suffer and I know you do not want that.


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## SFWG (Sep 8, 2007)

The irony of the date changes is this. All of the arrow flippers want to hunt in the rut, right? None of you have half the points of the rifle hunters. Now if they change weapons, you will still never get a tag. The guys with 13-17 points will still get the good tags for years. You and your drawing multiple times will come to a quit halt. You had better dust off your rifles and pray for the late rifle hunt.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

SFWG said:


> The irony of the date changes is this. All of the arrow flippers want to hunt in the rut, right? None of you have half the points of the rifle hunters. Now if they change weapons, you will still never get a tag. The guys with 13-17 points will still get the good tags for years. You and your drawing multiple times will come to a quit halt. You had better dust off your rifles and pray for the late rifle hunt.


lol the laugh would be on them. spending those max points on a 30% success rate weapon. LOL ya loosen the bonus point butt plug. move those guys through the system.


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## bigbuck81 (Oct 10, 2007)

All I see is the General Season hunters getting the shaft!! Why would any rifle hunter want to see this happen? I think its BS and totally benefits the archery hunters. Even the muzzy deer hunters get screwed, just to make the archers happy. What a bunch of crap!!! 

And your telling me if I dont hunt in the middle of the week Im not serious about hunting? What if your job doesnt allow it? Im sorry guys but being on this site for years has taught me that "MOST" archery hunters are a bunch of judgmental punks who think they are just way better than everyone else!!! The more archery posts I see the further I get from ever picking up a bow. 

The General Season hunters have to wait until almost every hunt is over, which means the animals are more scattered than they are all season. Why are we being punished to make other hunts better? 

I would like to see smaller sub units all over the state to limit the # of hunters per unit. That would fix alot of things IMO. The Uintahs need a better management plan, wouldnt you agree? Since most hunting takes place in the Northern Utah we need to micromanage it. 

Bow hunters have way too much time to hunt and now they(DWR) want to steal days away from the rifle hunt? Should we just ban rifle hunting so all the bow hunters will be happy? Or maybe we should just get 1 day to hunt with rifle and just let the bowhunters hunt 365 days a year. 

Dont worry, I am not freaking out, just get sick of all the purposed plans to eliminate rifle hunting success. Go ahead and hammer me for this post...its ok I can take it.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I feel for ya. it must feel like the world is closing down on ya. But you are missing the point of the whole proposal. 

This proposal isn't about rifle vs bow guy. Its about moving a 98% success rate rifle shoot out of the rut and allowing more people to move through the bonus point butt plug. 

its about protecting the cream or the top end bulls/bucks from the most successful predator. A man carrying a long range weapon.

limiting the success of the most successful weapon will have a big impact on our bucks/bulls survival rate.

It has nothing to do with rifle guy vs bow guy. It has everything to do with more opportunity without hurting the quality.


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## bigbuck81 (Oct 10, 2007)

Thats BS too SW. Take the dam rut!!! It doesnt benefit the rifle hunter much after opening day anyways!!! Im not saying its me against bow hunters. Im saying where do the rifle hunters benefit here? Once again another judgmental bow hunter who thinks his rights should be higher than mine when they already are!!!! YOU are missing the point!!! Notice how bowhunters are the squeaky wheel in this situation. Do you hear any rifle hunters complaining about how much bowhunters get to hunt? Take the rut, but dont take away days from my hunt!! October needs to remain ALL general season hunts!!!! Sept is good enough rut for you guys, go ahead and extend the bow hunt more into late sept but dont touch Oct.!!!!!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm not against bowhunters, but I have read a lot of BS on this forum where bowhunters are saying.....You're not a real hunter unless you bow hunt. 

I don't like everything about this proposal, but we do need to take the rifle hunt out of the rut to lower the success rate.

I also hope we don't have all these stories in 2011 where archers wounded bulls and they're wondering what they should do next. :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: I know that is a tough one to figure out.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

option 2 is better for sure


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

bigbuck81 said:


> Thats BS too SW. Take the dam rut!!! It doesnt benefit the rifle hunter much after opening day anyways!!!
> 
> Thats because they are already half way home with their elk in their truck on their opening day shoot.
> 
> ...


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## for fun (Sep 13, 2007)

Thanks Tree for the enlightenment..I think the seasons look great. It is a change in the right direction. It should be interesting how the next couple of years will play out..I still believe it a stepping stone that will get more tuning over the years but something needed to happen to open the door.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

The bottom line here is,,Change's are coming, and change is going to continue.

There will be change's in 2010,, Then change's for 2011 thru 2014,, Bet my last dollar
it will get changed again in 2015.

We all have a choice, whether to roll with the flow, and enjoy the best hunting ever...

OR complain about it , and have a miserable hunt. Or worse yet, not figure it out, and drop out! The choice is your's to make.


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## JERRY (Sep 30, 2007)

Change is inevitable. How do you expect them to keep their jobs and charge you more money if they don't make changes. Changes will keep coming until everyone is happy. :shock: 

Are you happy yet?.....................


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, I first heard about this proposal late last week and Tye sent a copy to me. At first I was upset, but now that I've had a chance to consider all of the changes being proposed and giving it some serious thought, I've concluded....Why not? I'm a die hard muzz hunter and bagging a deer is only part of the deal, I really don't care if I do get one or not. It's the "hunt", the ritual of it all that makes me the happiest. I loved the late muzz hunt of the past and this proposal brings me closer to that time. I don't care that the muzz hunt will be sandwiched between two GS rifle hunts. It still allows me to get out and hunt.
I do care that the LE muzz deer hunts are proposed to be carried out during that same time frame however. Where I have been putting in for and have 11 points accumulated does NOT have any animals in the area until early November! That is the only thing about this proposal that bugs me. I think there are other LE areas that also fall into this same concern and if the DWR makes considerations and changes the season dates in these areas than I say the proposal is a good one! Let it happen!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

utfireman said:


> And yet in the past we have managed the whole state as a single item.


Uhhh...that's is totally untrue. Utah manages for three DIFFERENT types of deer hunts--general season hunts that offer high amounts of opportunity for generally smaller bucks, limited entry deer hunts that offer less opportunity for higher quality bucks, and premium limited entry hunts that offer low opportunity for premium bucks.

Also, Utah has broken up its deer herds into 47 subunits which are all managed separately in that if any of those subunits falls below certain objectives management changes--take Monroe Mountain for example.


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## SteepNDeep (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm not going to comment on the schedule for Elk or archery, but am really concerned about the way they've set up the guns in relation to how I feel things go down in Utah. I will say though that hard core archers are the new flyfisherman snobs. You know- gear man and all his newest stuff out to accomplish more, better, amazing than everyone else and their reliable worm on a hook.?  Nothing beats catching a big brown on a spinner in front of gear man. 

It's true some about archers now, but we gotta all hunt and archery success rates make them a good group to keep happy IMO. 

Early rifle season? The existing one is late and in the rut? I don't think either idea is a good one. Deer are not rutting in the current rifle season. That's an early to mid November thing. If there was a rifle hunt in August they would get HAMMERED. I don't need you to point out that we aren't talking about August, I get that. But, in my experience, the deer get a little more tightly wound as each month passes. I don't know if it's "Nature or Nurture," nurture being the affect current seasons has on the deer. I think it's some of both. I think that as we pursue harder and in more impactful ways- arch, muzz, rifle, that the deer feel pressured. Everyone can agree on that. I think it may also have to do with the changes in season and the way deer all over the state pursue feed in higher, wetter elevations until it all freezes over. I do know that the trend in deer scarcity, anxiety, ease of reach or whatever you want to call it clearly diminishes as time passes. That's where I was going with the August talk, you know that in each month the deer seem a little more skittish as time passes. In August we would slaughter them all with rifles. In late October- we don't. The only only plus I can see to the early rifle might be more leaves on trees. I don't even know if that is the case. 

If the current Muzz season were a rifle one the same things would hold true- deer would get hanmmered. Populations of bucks would slide success rates would go way up. 

I always see more bucks on the muzzy. Always. Every time. 

I just worry that this is a really bad idea for deer. Having an early rifle would put people in better weather, more bucks, and easier to access deer. Sure you will get storms and stuff, but not with the predictability of late October. Those storms that hit us can be hard on the deer, but I think they can be harder on our hunting efforts and can really help the deer. The snow can, but doesn't often get heavy enough to push them out, but snow has often made my family change hunting plans. 

I don't buy it. I think it's too much constant pressure. I do see it as creative for pleasing an ever diverse and hungry for change group of hunters, but I don't see the wildlife sense in it. It - the deer changes- doesn't align with what my experiences are as far as something that makes sense. I absolutely think it increases the odds of deer getting killed on that early rifle, maybe offeset some by less muzzy success (also likely with rifle hunters just leaving areas) but in the net I think more deer hit the ground. If that's the goal then they will achieve it IMO. 

Someone should throw up a poll. I think most people, when honest, would say that they would want the early tag for rifle. Why? Well, who wouldn't want to be the first dude with a rifle in an area for the first gun season of the year. Answer: Anyone who wants to smoke a big one. 

Risky business.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

They have an early rifle rifle right now, it's called the buck bull combo and I think that's what they are referring to when they say "early" hunt.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

utfireman said:


> That a good question and point, yet Colorado has been able to do it now for almost 5 years. And we all know what has to take place to make that work. "A reduction in tags"
> 
> But you wont see that happening anytime soon. I am all for hunters being able to go out hunting every year. But what is going to keep young kids hunting year after year. Is it the time spent out in the woods? or the harvest of the animals?.
> 
> Limiting the amount of tags given out each year, will allow for less bucks to be harvested and will then increase the odds of a harvest when kids do have the tag.


1) Yes, Colorado has been doing this for almost 5 years...and, if you look at the numbers Colorado puts out, you would see that Colorado's deer herd as actually decreased in that time span....including a disastrous loss of deer--mostly does and fawns--a couple of winters ago in one of its prized units--Gunnison. Sadly, as Colorado biologists feared, the high buck/doe ratio led to bucks outcompeting fawns and now the unit has virtually lost the reproductive portion of its herd.

2) The thing that keeps from hunting year after year is the ability to get a tag in a lot of cases...and, again, if you want to look at Colorado, I hope Utah never becomes like Colorado in deer hunting...I hope we never offer such limited opportunity. Afterall, Colorado offers only 90,000 tags for 500,000 animals in a state with a population of 4.5 million. I am glad that our significantly smaller population of people gets 97,000 buck deer tags for its much smaller population of deer!

Now, I can imagine what you are thinking...Utah offers too many tags to so few deer compared to Colorado, right? But here's the thing... Utah's deer herd has grown at a faster rate than Colorado's deer herd since 2000 when they went to micro-managing. Yes they kill bigger bucks, but at what expense? They have double the number of deer but issue the same number of tags. So, they have higher buck/doe ratios but comparatively fewer does. IN other words, their recruitment rates and fawn numbers are lower. So, we can continue to have the steady increase in deer numbers with buck:doe ratios at/above objectives with decent opportunity, or we can follow Colorado and have SLOWER growth and cut opportunity in half. Which do you think is the 'wise' choice? Too many hunters equate high buck numbers with a healthy herd, but nothing is further from reality.

And, that's not mentioning the Gunnison herd which saw a dramatic and disastrous deer loss a couple of winters ago where Gunnison Basin biologists in Colorado arn't too happy having held 40+ bucks per 100 doe for the past few years. Now they lost a large portion of their herd because they carried TOO MANY bucks. Go figure.............not enough does to breed and reproduce and the herd is in jeopardy!

The scary thing is that if we do limit tags at a rate similar to Colorado, we would have to sit on the sidelines for at least 4-5 years to draw general season rifle tags and 2-3 years for archery tags...at least! So, by the time that young hunter finally is able to draw a tag, he is no longer interested in hunting...

3) As for the proposal and the new dates...my biggest fear with the split rifle hunt for deer is simple--are we going to harvest too many bucks and lower the buck/doe ratios below objective? I feel like we are already moving in the right direction with our deer herds...why make such drastic changes?


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Packout said:


> Utah sure likes making everything much more difficult than it should be..... Confuse the average hunter (I'd wager 90% of us visiting this site are more into it than the average guy), all while worrying about recruitment.
> 
> The season dates should remain the same as we currently have for general hunts, with a couple tweaks to limited entry elk tags:
> 
> ...


+1...this is more what I would suggest!


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## SteepNDeep (Sep 11, 2007)

If early deer is on one unit that's one thing. I guess I don't get it, and I need to get back to busy. All I worry about is a general rifle deer, even split 50/50 or whatever, any earlier than what already exists. I think it's a cause for serious concern. I don't think anyone would think they would have less success on that kind of hunt- the first with bullets, earlier season, tempered weather, less people, even the muzzy's haven't shot and missed or even chased yet in season, than on the current system. So, yes, I'll get back to the thread later to seek understanding, but earlier rifle concerns us all IMO.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

wyoming2Utah
You are sounding like you have been educated by the great one. The one that new his stuff on biology. 

you guys used to argue all the time but it looks like you have turned your thinking around

Who am I talking about 

The PRO!!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> They have an early rifle rifle right now, it's called the buck bull combo and I think that's what they are referring to when they say "early" hunt.


No, I don't believe it's refering to the buck/bull combo hunt like we have now.

I believe it's talking about two rifle hunts state-wide. 1. early 2. late. The current buck/bull combo only covers anybull areas in the Northern Region. The new proposal is a buck/bull combo hunt statewide. Both the early and late rifle deer hunts are taking place at the same time there is an early and late GS rifle hunt for elk.

Can someone hunt the early GS elk and then hunt the late rifle deer hunt? Maybe you would just want to hunt them both at the same time.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I agree, Now that I read what I wrote and your reply, it makes more sense. Silly little pito.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

then a person would have to have two seperate tags? or is this one tag. looking at what you are saying they have spike elk with the GS muzz deer also. so one could hunt spike elk and deer together...not a bad idea...


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## SFWG (Sep 8, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> wyoming2Utah
> You are sounding like you have been educated by the great one. The one that new his stuff on biology.
> 
> you guys used to argue all the time but it looks like you have turned your thinking around
> ...


 Are you talking about the guy who screws people???

How many times have you drawn??


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

SFWG said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > wyoming2Utah
> ...


Never I even have 9 archery deer points.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> SFWG said:
> 
> 
> > swbuckmaster said:
> ...


he's talking about "Pro" 
this will shed some light about Pro
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/D ... 11363.html


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> swbuckmaster said:
> 
> 
> > SFWG said:
> ...


Are you guys (SFWG and Sagebrush) even aware of what he is going through right now? :roll: It seems to me the ones that were affected have let it go, but the haters are still dwelling, get a life. :roll:


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2009)

sagebrush said:


> then a person would have to have two seperate tags? or is this one tag. looking at what you are saying they have spike elk with the GS muzz deer also. so one could hunt spike elk and deer together...not a bad idea...


This is what I am wondering also. It looks like the DWR is trying to let every weapon hunt deer and elk at the same time, like the archery and Buck/Bull Combo hunts currently do. If so I don't see how this will reduce the number of rifle hunters in the field. All it does is combine rifle deer and elk hunters together in both hunts, instead of separating them into two different hunts like they currently do. And sandwiching the muzzie hunt in between them will only drive many more muzzie hunters to switch back to rifle.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> sagebrush said:
> 
> 
> > then a person would have to have two seperate tags? or is this one tag. looking at what you are saying they have spike elk with the GS muzz deer also. so one could hunt spike elk and deer together...not a bad idea...
> ...


That is exactly what i am planning on doing too. As much as i hate to say it, it is the sad reality. Hopefully i can get the early rifle tag. :|


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

WeakenedWarrior said:


> sagebrush said:
> 
> 
> > then a person would have to have two seperate tags? or is this one tag. looking at what you are saying they have spike elk with the GS muzz deer also. so one could hunt spike elk and deer together...not a bad idea...
> ...


 :idea: I speculate that these two groups you speak of (Elk and deer hunters) are comprised largely of THE SAME people, making the NET result LESS people in the field overall.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2009)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> WeakenedWarrior said:
> 
> 
> > sagebrush said:
> ...


There is certainly a lot of overlap of rifle deer and elk hunters, but there is also a pretty good percentage of people who only do one or the other. Many general season rifle hunters do not have time for two hunts so they choose the species that is best for them. I know a lot of rifle hunters who do just the deer hunt because it is a yearly family tradition, and others who do just the elk hunt because they like elk meat better than deer. Now you are going to combine them all into the same hunt, in addition to the rifle hunters who normally hunt both anyway, and the muzzie hunters who are going to become disaffected by their hunt being sandwiched in between two general season rifle hunts, and will end up switching back to rifle. Sure, they may split this group of hunters into early and late seasons, but the affect will still be more rifle hunters overall. Other than this I am fine with the rest of the proposals.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I for one would buy an elk tag and go for muzz elk/deer while I'm out after deer. Many a time I've been muzz hunting deer and ran into an elk. I don't see a problem with sandwiching the muzz hunt between two GS rifle seasons. The hunt is the hunt! Most people don't bother getting more than 100 yards away from a road anyway. The animals will still be right where you find them.


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