# UTAH STATE LOTTERY



## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm curious to find out what you all think about Utah's drawing process. 

For years we have paid the required "application fee" for a chance to draw a permit to hunt several species in Utah. I understand the reason for an application fee, but I don't understand why we pay $10.00 for each species on a single application. If it's truly an application fee, we shouldn't be charged for each species added to the same application. Of course there's numerous draw periods throughout the year for different hunts, which requires another "application fee" for each member of your family. The fees quickly add up right?

We pay a required fee for a chance to participate in a drawing, with an understanding that we could receive something of value, for example a limited enrty tag. Doesn't that sound a lot like the Powerball lottery? 

Read the language in the following statute and compare it to the language in the 2011 Big Game Application Guidebook:

Utah Criminal Code 76-10-1102. Gambling.
(2) (a) "Gambling" means risking anything of value for a return or risking anything of value upon the outcome of a contest, game, gaming scheme, or gaming device when the return or outcome:
(i) is based upon an element of chance; and (ii) is in accord with an agreement or understanding that someone will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.
(b) "Gambling" includes a lottery and fringe gambling.
(c) "Gambling" does not include:
"Lottery" means any scheme for the disposal or distribution of property by chance among persons who have paid or promised to pay any valuable consideration for the chance of obtaining property, or portion of it, or for any share or any interest in property, upon any agreement, understanding, or expectation that it is to be distributed or disposed of by lot or chance, whether called a lottery, raffle, or gift enterprise, or by whatever name it is known.

2011 Big Game Application Guidebook, page 18:

"Before the drawing takes place, a computer randomly assigns a drawing number to you for each species you applied for. The computer also randomly assigns a drawing number to you for each bonus point you have for the species you’re applying for. After the computer has randomly assigned your numbers to you, it takes the lowest number you received, and that’s the number you’ll use in the drawing. The lower your number, the better your chance at drawing a permit."

Wow, doesn't that sound familiar? Opening a can of worms, I know.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm not going to get into any arguments in this thread, but I will say this... I find it completely silly that I can't put in for more than one LE species in a given year. 

I'm in my mid 30s and I find myself in a position where I'll probably never in my life have the chance to hunt all the species that I want to (in utah) in my lifetime.

It took me 10 years to draw a LE deer tag, and since we were snowed out of the areas that held the "big boys", I'll likely be going back to putting in for LE deer again once I'm able to.

It takes years... if not decades... to draw virtually any LE tag, and the once-in-a-lifetime tags are even worse!

Why can't I put in for a LE deer, LE elk, LE Antelope, LE moose, and buffalo all in the same year?! 

Sure, maybe I can only draw one of those tags, but if I was able to do that, the DWR would be garnering an extra $40 every year... just from me! How many others would add big horn sheep, etc to their lists?

Just my opinion, but all the "complaining" about needing money, and here's a "DWR cash cow" just waiting there for absolutely no good reason.


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## honker_slayer (Oct 24, 2010)

our dwr is as crooked as a snake! they do there draw out of fallon nevada to make there lottery legal! crooked azz wipes


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Many Steps-
If you could apply for every species, not only would you be spending a lot more to play the game.........your odds would go right down the sink to EVER draw one, instead of ten-twenty years you can bet your bottom dollar it will take fifty+ years if we can apply for all LE Species........your kids and grandkids could kiss hunting LE good-by. :shock: 

Think of it this way, the only people you are competing against for a LE Deer tag is only people applying for that species, you are not competing against guys like me applying for elk or guys applying for antelope...........Take that away and all of us, will put in for the same number of tags that are available now.

About the gambling-
If half of the people who are "breaking" Rules in regards to there religion and not gambling, would get out of the game, odds for this heathen would increase dramatically........


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

> If you could apply for every species, not only would you be spending a lot more to play the game.........your odds would go right down the sink to EVER draw one, instead of ten-twenty years you can bet your bottom dollar it will take fifty+ years if we can apply for all LE Species........your kids and grandkids could kiss hunting LE good-by. :shock:
> 
> Think of it this way, the only people you are competing against for a LE Deer tag is only people applying for that species, you are not competing against guys like me applying for elk or guys applying for antelope...........Take that away and all of us, will put in for the same number of tags that are available now.


Well said, and a very good point... I hadn't thought about it from that angle... still disappointing that I have to prioritize what animals I'd like to hunt in my lifetime. With they way I've personally set that priority, I doubt I'll live long enough to hunt a moose, let alone a buffalo in Utah.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

It sucks living in a state with so many people when it comes to hunting........about the only option a guy has is to save his money and apply in other states (they can be a real treat as well)

I share your disappointment ManySteps, its tough deciding what to do........


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

Lets have our own drawing. I'll charge 2,000 members a $10.00 "application fee" and will draw one name to see who gets the $20,000.00 dollars. The person that wins can use the money to buy the best out of state permit. 1 in 2,000 odds is better than the odds we have through DWR. It's gambling but if I call it an appliction fee, its all good right?


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Im in


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

$20,000 isn't going to go very far on out of state tags since all the other states also run a lottery. You're going to have to come up with $200,000+ and hope for some governors tags.


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

OK you got me there but my point is the same.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Most hunters are in the same boat that I am in. I have decided that if I really want to go hunt a moose that I might as well as save up the money and head to Canada or Alaska on a guided hunt. The same goes for any of the other animals such as mountain goats, and bison. But I keep sending in my $10.00 for each animal and cross my fingers each year, and each year I get the same letter. Thank you for applying but........... I almost liked Utah better back when there were no bonus points involved. Everyone that put in had one chance and one chance only on each animal.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

ExtremeHunter said:


> Utah Criminal Code 76-10-1102. Gambling.
> (2) (a) "Gambling" means risking anything of value for a return or risking anything of value upon the outcome of a contest, game, gaming scheme, or gaming device when the return or outcome:
> (i) is based upon an element of chance; and (ii) is in accord with an agreement or understanding that someone will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.
> (b) "Gambling" includes a lottery and fringe gambling.
> ...


It ain't a lottery. It ain't gambling of any sort. You don't win anything of value. Nobody gets the tag for their application fee. The only thing you win is your place in line to buy the tag.

Fishrmn


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

You can only purchase a tag if your number is drawn. Your number is not entered into the drawing unless you paid money and that equals a lottery. Sorry if you disagree, but the language in the law is clear and simple.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

ExtremeHunter said:


> You can only purchase a tag if your number is drawn. Your number is not entered into the drawing unless you paid money and that equals a lottery. Sorry if you disagree, but the language in the law is clear and simple.


Okay. What do you win? How much is it worth? Exactly what you paid for it.

Fishrmn


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2011)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> ........your kids and grandkids could kiss hunting LE good-by. :shock:


sadly, they can already kiss LE hunting good-bye. we all can come 2012. -)O(- thank you everyone involved, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! we couldnt have done it without you or your deep pockets!! :roll: some of those people make me sick with all of their "good ideas".......... :O>>: :O>>: :O>>:


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

Does anyone else honestly believe DWR's drawing process is not a lottery?


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

There must be some lawyers and law enforcement reading this?


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Do we have to go through this every year??? It isn't gambling. I guess you could call it a lottery, because they have to assign everyone a number, and draw to find out who can buy a tag. It isn't gambling. Nobody pays for a tag that they might or might not get. Everyone gets their name in the drawing. Nobody gets a tag for free, or for the cost of the processing fee. If you ever really wanna see chaos, eliminate the draw and get it to be first come first served again. It won't happen, but you're welcome to try. The last time there were fist fights, people camping out at DWR offices across the state, cops called to disperse crowds, etc..

Fishrmn


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Fishrmn said:


> It ain't a lottery. It ain't gambling of any sort. You don't win anything of value. Nobody gets the tag for their application fee. The only thing you win is your place in line to buy the tag.
> 
> Fishrmn


Well stated!


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2011)

Fishrmn said:


> Do we have to go through this every year??? It isn't gambling. I guess you could call it a lottery, because they have to assign everyone a number, and draw to find out who can buy a tag. It isn't gambling.in a way, it is. when theres personal money involved in a game of "chance" it becomes gambling. Nobody pays for a tag that they might or might not get. Everyone gets their name in the drawing.THAT WANTS TO APPLY! not everyone just automatically gets entered. Nobody gets a tag for free,yes they do in some drawings. swan, sandhill crane... or for the cost of the processing fee. If you ever really wanna see chaos, eliminate the draw and get it to be first come first served again. It won't happen, but you're welcome to try. The last time there were fist fights, people camping out at DWR offices across the state, cops called to disperse crowds, etc..
> 
> Fishrmn


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2011)

Fishrmn said:


> It ain't a lottery. It ain't gambling of any sort. You don't win anything of value. Nobody gets the tag for their application fee. The only thing you win is your place in line to buy the tag.
> 
> Fishrmn


it is of value or no one would apply and it wouldnt be such a big deal! its very valuable to anyone who enjoys hunting


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

*-HELP!-* ... maybe someone can tell me why I clicked the "subscribe topic" button on a post I just knew would go this way... -oOo- O|* :RULES:


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## gitterdone81 (Sep 3, 2009)

So the drawing isn't a lottery according to fisherman, but what about expo permits - don't you get the tag for the $5 entry fee....that would be gambling right? Maybe we can legally shut off some cash to SFW.

Disclaimer - I am not familiar with the expo tags, just taking a guess.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

> (c) "Gambling" *does not include*:
> "Lottery" means any scheme for the disposal or distribution of property by chance among persons who have paid or promised to pay any valuable consideration for the chance of obtaining property, or portion of it, or for any share or any interest in property, upon any agreement, understanding, or expectation that it is to be distributed or disposed of by lot or chance, whether called a lottery, raffle, or gift enterprise, or by whatever name it is known.


Here's what ya do. Call the cops, call a lawyer, call a judge, call a senator, and call the governor. Tell them it's gambling. See where that gets ya. It ain't gambling.

Fishrmn


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Simple solution? (Sportsman's tag aside) Eliminate the application fees and add all the draw process costs to the permit fees. That way, only those who draw the lucky numbers and purchase the permit have to pay anything for it. And even if the permit costs $200 more and it takes twenty years to draw the opportunity to purchase the permit, you'll have saved $200 in application fees, so you'll be even. Have fun with that idea, folks!


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

ntrl_brn_rebel said:


> Many Steps-
> If you could apply for every species, not only would you be spending a lot more to play the game.........your odds would go right down the sink to EVER draw one, instead of ten-twenty years you can bet your bottom dollar it will take fifty+ years if we can apply for all LE Species........your kids and grandkids could kiss hunting LE good-by. :shock:
> 
> Think of it this way, the only people you are competing against for a LE Deer tag is only people applying for that species, you are not competing against guys like me applying for elk or guys applying for antelope...........Take that away and all of us, will put in for the same number of tags that are available now.


It's true that your odds for drawing any one species will go up, but if you can apply for, *and draw*, any or all 3 LE species and any or all 5 OIL species, then your chances of drawing *some* permit remain about the same because you now have 8 chances to draw a tag instead of 1. And most of the surrounding states allow you to do this! Also have fun with this idea!!


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

The $10 fee goes in part to a private company that manages the draw. Another portion of the $10 fee goes to printing the guidebooks and things like that.

It's not gambling for two reasons:

1 - If you draw you still have to pony up the cash to actually buy the tag. You don't get a tag just by drawing AND you don't get back any of the money you or someone else paid. And you don't get back an item or service that any of the money that was used in the process purchased. 

2 - If you don't draw you get a bonus point that increases your odds year after to the point that you are guaranteed to draw one day.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Sorry guys but I have to disagree.... IT IS GAMBLING. A duck is a duck no matter how you disguise it. I personally have no problem with it. Gambling is *any endeavour that involves random chance*. It doesn't matter if you win something of value or not. The verbage in our state laws is setup in a way that it criminalizes certain types of gambling. What needs to be expressed here is that our big game draw is a legal lottery/drawing that falls outside the scope of the criminalized description.

Everytime you buy stock, you are gambling. Everytime you take any kind of risk you are gambling. Many members of the predominant religion of our great state have an amazing ability to justify every violation of the rules that apply to their dogma. I saw it growing up, I saw it in college and I continue see it everyday.

It is a gamble and it is a gamble that some of us will never win so that makes it worse; an unethically run enterprise that by design (intended or not) collects monies for the chance at drawing something they have no hopes of actually getting. The DWR knows very well that there are people applying that will never draw an LE tag and yet they continue to take their money with a smile.

I believe that if we are going to *GAMBLE* on the *CHANCE* to buy an LE or OIL tag we should leave it to true chance. Eliminate the point system and make it a true drawing. with a waiting period of 3, 4 or 5 years. This way the the *GAMBLE* is completely based on *LUCK*


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Sure....there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. I think the original poster was saying that by legal definition the draw is illegal. I disagree with him on that. 

Is it a gamble....well yeah.


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## bigbr (Oct 24, 2007)

bullsnot said:


> The $10 fee goes in part to a private company that manages the draw. Another portion of the $10 fee goes to printing the guidebooks and things like that.
> 
> It's not gambling for two reasons:
> 
> ...


I would have to agree with Bullsnot, this is not a lottery or gambling? It is a clear case of racketeering and out right fraud! Someone call the Feds! Get a rope&#8230;.Big :mrgreen:


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

Justify your participation in Utah's State lottery if you want to, but you're gambling my friends. You can twist the words in the law, but you're still gambling. Don't worry I won't judge you. I'm sure the State and DWR found some loop hole to get around the law, but my point is the same. Any one that's against Gambling will say it's not gambling. I challenge any lawyer to contact me and convince me otherwise. The rest of us will have to agree to disagree.


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh by the way. I'm not advocating a change. I just wanted to see how you all felt about paying $10 dollars for each species. If it's a true application fee then we should only need to pay $10. I guess I'm more broke than others.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

ExtremeHunter said:


> Justify your participation in Utah's State lottery if you want to, but you're gambling my friends. You can twist the words in the law, but you're still gambling. Don't worry I won't judge you. I'm sure the State and DWR found some loop hole to get around the law, but my point is the same. Any one that's against Gambling will say it's not gambling. I challenge any lawyer to contact me and convince me otherwise. The rest of us will have to agree to disagree.


I challenge you to contact a lawyer and prove that it is gambling. You get exactly what you pay for. There's no risk whatsoever.

Fishrmn


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

fishrmn you're cracking me up


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

ExtremeHunter said:


> Justify your participation in Utah's State lottery if you want to, but you're gambling my friends. You can twist the words in the law, but you're still gambling. Don't worry I won't judge you. I'm sure the State and DWR found some loop hole to get around the law, but my point is the same. Any one that's against Gambling will say it's not gambling. I challenge any lawyer to contact me and convince me otherwise. The rest of us will have to agree to disagree.


We all gamble with our lives driving to work everyday. :O•-: Plus I have no qualms gambling, I am a sinner. :mrgreen: o-||


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

I guess you could say that it is illegal to be a farmer and raise crops, or a rancher and raise cattle. When a farmer plants crops he is gambling that there will be enough moisture for the crops to grow. And it's never a sure thing that cattle will survive and breed so that the rancher will make a profit. You know exactly what the rules are when you enter the big game draw. You pay the $10 just like everyone else. There are 97,000 deer tags, and roughly 300,000 people who want them. You can't buy more chances like the "Lotto". The rules allow for bonus points, but you can't plop down $500 and say "I want 50 chances to draw". 

I've gambled in Vegas and Wendover in the past. I don't anymore. There you can win a great deal more than you've wagered. In the big game draw you don't win money, you get the chance to spend more if you're successful. 


Fishrmn


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One nice thing about the "Utah Lottery" as you call it is that if you believe that it is gambling and it is against your moral code and you don't want to do it then you do not have to participate in it. 
It is as simple as that.


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## dark_cloud (Oct 18, 2010)

Its GAMBLING. Its a form of a LOTTERY and I think you all are guilty of a crime. :shock: Dont put in this year, or ever again. Then you should start paying 10% to me :mrgreen: and your sins will be forgiven.


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## Mytoge Muley (Jan 11, 2011)

ExtremeHunter said:


> Oh by the way. I'm not advocating a change. I just wanted to see how you all felt about paying $10 dollars for each species. If it's a true application fee then we should only need to pay $10. I guess I'm more broke than others.


Im not siding with anyone here, but what i feel the thread is really about is.. yes I think its bull**** to have to pay 10 dollars for each species....as far as gambling and lotteries go...dont really care. Just want to hunt and have as fair of a chance at it as the next guy. I have resorted to other states for certain species that I wish to hunt simply because it will and has taken too **** long to draw an elk tag in utah.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Jahan....your my kind of dude. A sinner to the core and don't try to sugar coat it.

Fishrmn.... you got some twisted perception of reality. The fact that you have to pay to play makes it gambling. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW BIG OR WHAT THE PRIZE IS. You probably are the kind of person that uses "FUDGE" or "FREAK'N" instead of that glorious most versatile word in the english language "F * C K" (i actually respect the rules of the forum). The fact that you use any word as cursatory adjective makes you man that cusses. No matter how you sugar coat it your intention inside your warm little soul was to curse.

IT'S GAMBLIN FOLKS!


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

MadHunter said:


> Jahan....your my kind of dude. A sinner to the core and don't try to sugar coat it.
> 
> Fishrmn.... you got some twisted perception of reality. The fact that you have to pay to play makes it gambling. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW BIG OR WHAT THE PRIZE IS. You probably are the kind of person that uses "FUDGE" or "FREAK'N" instead of that glorious most versatile word in the english language "F * C K" (i actually respect the rules of the forum). The fact that you use any word as cursatory adjective makes you man that cusses. No matter how you sugar coat it your intention inside your warm little soul was to curse.
> 
> IT'S GAMBLIN FOLKS!


MadHunter,
I had a great response all typed up to reply to you. All about cussin' and gamblin' and the reality of life and death. Then the forum logged me off before I could send it (I usually copy my posts before I send them so I'll be able to be logged in when I hit "Submit", but didn't this time.) Oh well, I guess that's the risk I took.

Fishrmn


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Told ya it was all gambl'n. 
*()* :^8^: *()* :^8^: 

Sorry bout that Fishrmn. I hate it when inspiration get jacked like that.


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## Hunt1Fish2 (Dec 19, 2007)

The claim has been made that it is not gambling since one does not win anything but only get the ability spend funds on a permit. If the permit’s value is the same as the price I would have to agree.

However, the permit is worth far more than the few hundred dollars that the DWR charges. If it wasn’t worth more we would not need a draw, since supply would equal demand. To find out how much a permit is worth do away with the draw and auction off all permits then you would see the value that is being gambled for in the draw.

Would you feel that it is still not gambling if the application fee was $400 and the permit fee was $10?

This reminds me of a case of a hooker who would sells fountain pens for $500, after which she becomes your girlfriend for the night. She claims she is not a prostitute but is a pen broker. But that’s another story.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Wanna know how much your permit is worth? After you draw one, put it on Ebay and auction it off. You CAN'T! Not legally anyway. It is issued to you, and only you can use it. Therefore it is worthless on the open market.

Fishrmn


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

The value of the prize is meaningless. The action of using random chance is what makes it gambling. Look... ther have been several organizations in the state, most recently a fire department, in Alpine I believe, that put on a drawing to raise funds. The fact that they collected money for the drawing made it illegal in the state's eyes and they were asked to refund all entries or face fines. The prizes were stuff the community donated, not worth much. It was still illegal, even thought they had no point creep!!!


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

They still run the "Rubber Ducky Derby! Random chance. Prizes (valuable) awarded. Non profit organization.

Fishrmn


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Goes to show how the :RULES: are applied only when it suits certain interests.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Maybe the Fire Department in question didn't follow the rules???

Fishrmn


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## ExtremeHunter (Aug 12, 2010)

I think we all agree the program sucks but we all do it because there isn't another choice. If you want a tag, you have to play the game. You can't play unless you pay. The state runs a lottery and calls your money an "application fee" so they can justify it. Even if someone wanted to push the issue, the legislature would just change language in the law to make it legal. Either way we're paying money, every year, for the next fifteen years until we draw.

Fishermn agrees but likes to stir the pot.


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## quakeycrazy (Sep 18, 2007)

If you really want to get fishermn going tell him that Strawberry will thaw before end of April!! You haven't seen anything from him yet! :O•-: :lol:


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey Fishrmn... STRAWBERRY WILL THAW BEFORE APRIL IS OVER :O•-:


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

ExtremeHunter said:


> I think we all agree the program sucks but we all do it because there isn't another choice. If you want a tag, you have to play the game. You can't play unless you pay. The state runs a lottery and calls your money an "application fee" so they can justify it. Even if someone wanted to push the issue, the legislature would just change language in the law to make it legal. Either way we're paying money, every year, for the next fifteen years until we draw.
> 
> Fishermn agrees but likes to stir the pot.


Guilty as charged.   Anybody wanna bet that there's another thread next year on the same topic?



quakeycrazy said:


> If you really want to get fishermn going tell him that Strawberry will thaw before end of April!! You haven't seen anything from him yet! :O•-: :lol:


Even if it does, I'll deny it. :O•-: But for a good reason.
:lol: :lol:

Fishrmn


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Fishrmn said:


> ExtremeHunter said:
> 
> 
> > I think we all agree the program sucks but we all do it because there isn't another choice. If you want a tag, you have to play the game. You can't play unless you pay. The state runs a lottery and calls your money an "application fee" so they can justify it. Even if someone wanted to push the issue, the legislature would just change language in the law to make it legal. Either way we're paying money, every year, for the next fifteen years until we draw.
> ...


See he's gambl'n already.


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

MadHunter said:


> Hey Fishrmn... STRAWBERRY WILL THAW BEFORE APRIL IS OVER :O•-:


Wanna bet? Sorry, couldn't help myself. Compulsive gambler and all.



quakeycrazy said:


> If you really want to get fishermn going tell him that Strawberry will thaw before end of April!! You haven't seen anything from him yet! :O•-: :lol:


One thing about it. I remember the thread, but didn't notice, or worry about who it was.


> Re: When is the ice melted on Strawberry this year?
> by Catherder » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:07 pm
> 
> Jonwo wrote:
> ...


Wanna bet that this isn't the only thread concerning "The Thaw" at Strawberry?

Fishrmn


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## Shockgobble (Apr 22, 2010)

MadHunter said:


> Jahan....your my kind of dude. A sinner to the core and don't try to sugar coat it.
> 
> Fishrmn.... you got some twisted perception of reality. The fact that you have to pay to play makes it gambling. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW BIG OR WHAT THE PRIZE IS.  You probably are the kind of person that uses "FUDGE" or "FREAK'N" instead of that glorious most versatile word in the english language "F * C K" (i actually respect the rules of the forum). The fact that you use any word as cursatory adjective makes you man that cusses. No matter how you sugar coat it your intention inside your warm little soul was to curse.
> 
> IT'S GAMBLIN FOLKS!


Thats classic!!! :O--O:


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2011)

Fishrmn said:


> MadHunter said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Fishrmn... STRAWBERRY WILL THAW BEFORE APRIL IS OVER :O•-:
> ...


for you not being a gambling man, you sure do use the phrase "WANNA BET" alot!! :mrgreen: -/|\-


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Fishrmn said:


> Compulsive gambler and all. Fishrmn


I just can't figure out where Madhunter got the thing about cussin'? Good grief!

Fishrmn


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Fishrmn said:


> One thing about it. I remember the thread, but didn't notice, or worry about who it was.
> 
> Re: When is the ice melted on Strawberry this year?
> by Catherder » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:07 pm
> ...


How did I get pulled into this silly thread?

It figures. I have been in Las Vegas all week. (For continuing ed, not gambling 8) )


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## Fishrmn (Sep 14, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Fishrmn said:
> 
> 
> > Re: When is the ice melted on Strawberry this year?
> ...


'Cause you ice fished Strawberry when it obviously should've been melted the last two years. -O|o-

Fishrmn


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Fishrmn said:


> Fishrmn said:
> 
> 
> > Compulsive gambler and all. Fishrmn
> ...


The cussing thing was analogy on how saying "FUDGE" doesn't change the fact that you really meant F* CK. It's cussing. Just like saying the tag drawing is not a lottery or gambling.


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