# Permit recommendations now online



## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

We just posted the big game and antlerless permit recommendations for the 2013 season. Please attend your local RAC meetings to share your input on the proposals. Meetings will be held as follows:

*Southern Region*
April 9, 5 p.m.
Beaver High School
195 E Center ST, Beaver

*Southeastern Region*
April 10, 6:30 p.m.
John Wesley Powell Museum
1765 E Main ST, Green River

*Northeastern Region*
April 11, 5 p.m.
DWR Northeastern Region Office
318 N Vernal Ave, Vernal

*Central Region*
April 16, 6:30 p.m.
Springville Public Library Meeting Room
45 S Main Street, Springville

*Northern Region*
April 18, 6 p.m.
Brigham City Community Center
24 N 300 W, Brigham City


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

3) We recommend a *slight* decrease in limited entry deer permits from 967 to 860.
12% reduction
5) We recommend a *slight* decrease in limited entry elk permits from 2,815 to 2,784.
1% reduction

It's all semantics... -Ov-


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Thanks! been waiting for this....


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I liked this. 

12)
Due to the light winter in 2012-2013, deer populations have increased in some management units during 2012, and the statewide post hunt population is estimated at about 318,550 deer. 
*You mean the sky isn't falling with the deer herd?*

This too. (improves my odds from infinitesimal to profoundly unlikely  )

eight) We recommend increasing permits on the new bison hunt on the Book Cliffs from 4 to 6 permits.

This is the Wildhorse bench herd. Does anyone know the population of the buff herd released near the roadless area?

And I was saddened by this one.

7) We recommend a reduction in moose permits due to declining ages and bull quality from 76 to 71.

Strange to me because it seemed that every moose on the entire Wasatch unit was stuck in the Brighton bowl last summer


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

someone please show up to a RAC and ask why there is a 12% reduction in LE deer permits...that seems a little off the wall...am I crazy in thinking that?!?!


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Very interesting numbers. My main unit for deer and elk seem to be doing well which seems right to me. It will be intriguing to see what happens with elk antlerless recommendations. I've heard there will be a very large contingent of outfitters/guides at the Central RAC to oppose all the antlerless elk tags on most units. If you agree/disagree with all the cow elk tags I would really recommend you show up and speak your mind.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

JuddCT said:


> Very interesting numbers. My main unit for deer and elk seem to be doing well which seems right to me. It will be intriguing to see what happens with elk antlerless recommendations. I've heard there will be a very large contingent of outfitters/guides at the Central RAC to oppose all the antlerless elk tags on most units. If you agree/disagree with all the cow elk tags I would really recommend you show up and speak your mind.


outfitters/guides vs. ranchers...hmmm...I wonder who wins that battle...ranchers every time...I hope the outfitters budgeted for "wasted gas money spent driving to RAC" :O•-:


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I see the recommenation is to cut tags 16% on unit 18. You guys remember this thread from last year about this time?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42018
Well, maybe ole Ridgetop was not so crazy after all. :O•-:


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

ridgetop said:


> I see the recommenation is to cut tags 16% on unit 18. You guys remember this thread from last year about this time?
> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42018
> Well, maybe ole Ridgetop was not so crazy after all. :O•-:


A blind squirrel will always find a nut once in a while.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

stablebuck said:


> someone please show up to a RAC and ask why there is a 12% reduction in LE deer permits...that seems a little off the wall...am I crazy in thinking that?!?!


No, you're not crazy! It's so we can put bigger trophy deer *on* the wall, don't cha know?


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

I am most upset about losing archery and muzzy elk tags to a late rifle hunt. :evil: If you want another rifle hunt take the tags from the rifle pool.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

alpinebowman said:


> I am most upset about losing archery and muzzy elk tags to a late rifle hunt. :evil: If you want another rifle hunt take the tags from the rifle pool.


+1

heck.....+100!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

+100


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Catherder said:


> I liked this.
> 
> 12)
> Due to the light winter in 2012-2013, deer populations have increased in some management units during 2012, and the statewide post hunt population is estimated at about 318,550 deer.
> *You mean the sky isn't falling with the deer herd?*[/color]


 So the data showing a trend decreasing on 90% of the general units is a good thing?


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## Broadside_Shot (Feb 22, 2010)

I saw some wierd things. Book Cliffs Archery Elk cut 1 permit, Book Cliffs Muzzy elk cut 1 permit, Book Cliffs Early Rifle stayed the same and Book Cliffs Premium went up 1. Don't understand what this accomplishes.

Also my wife had a good chance at Book Cliffs Rifle Pronghorn. There were 6 resident tags and 0 non resident availavble and now they changed it to 5 resident and 1 nonresident. I thought you need 10 resident tags before you had a non resident tags.

My thoughts are they plug numbers into a computer based on animal counts and this is what the computer spits out.

:?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> > I liked this.
> ...


On page 4, on the trend line, it lists 13 units with an *increasing* trend, 6 stable, and 10 decreasing, and 2 listed as no data. So yeah, considering all the gloom and doom we read on here, finding that 2/3rds of the general season herd units are stable or increasing is a good thing. Also, wasn't last years statewide population estimate for 280,000 head of deer?



alpinebowman said:


> I am most upset about losing archery and muzzy elk tags to a late rifle hunt. :evil: If you want another rifle hunt take the tags from the rifle pool.


I'm not an archery guy at all, but I agree with you guys about this.


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

Looks like option 2 is getting things done!!!  


:lol:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

^^^^^ Couldn't agree more Reb! were heading the right direction!....^^^^

12% reduction on LE deer is related directly to hunter satisfaction index
on returned surveys,.. Working on LE deer this year, Next year (2014) its elk..

I Would expect to see about a 12-14% reduction on LE elk next year...

Unless, of course, the Wildlife Board doesn't jump in and do it this year :lol: 

There's going to be some opposition show up on elk numbers, both cow and LE.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Mother nature and her recent mild winter had more to do with increasing the herds than ANY management change. 


-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

+1,000 DallanC

Haha, some funny posts on this thread.

LE deer permit reduction related to hunter satisfaction? The permit reduction came from reducing permits on the Pauns Mgt hunt because of they are meeting the objective, the Oak Cr unit because of the fire, and the Book Cliffs because the herd lost 20% of its population over the last few years and those fawns lost are not there to be hunted. 

Unit management being the cause for increased deer populations? Hahaha. Those deer counted were the result of regional management. We're headed in the right direction only when Mother Nature blesses us with proper conditions to grow deer.

Stable declining is about buck numbers, not the deer herd, and declining can still mean we are over the objective. If we have 40,000 more deer in the count this year that means we have more doe being counted and we all know what has fawns! That is a great thing. Since everyone is having their "I told you so moment" then I want my pat on the back for seeing more fawns in the field during 2011 and forecasting the population bump 2 years ago. Just think those 2011 doe fawns are giving birth this year-- and could give us a huge bump in fawns. (That was sure difficult, like 2+2=4 difficult)

Seriously, where do guys come up with this stuff? 

I agree with you guys on the Late hunt percentages playing with archery tag numbers, but those are set in the management plan. I see the 1000 Lakes is cut in half, which I would guess mirrors the DH and LL choices once again, making it so the regular sportsman won't get to hunt there through the draw. Amazing how those numbers are so dead on 2 years in a row.


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## Muley73 (Nov 20, 2010)

Packout, 
I'll agree, option 2 has not a lot to do with an increase of this year. I do see the number changes on some units....that's a step in the right direction. 

Ironically I also noticed the tags on 1000 Lake being cut in half. Looks like points for the fam and tags on the Fishlake for us. Double win! Although I'll not complain if we happen to pull a tag on 1000 Lake and lose the points.


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

Packout said:


> LE deer permit reduction related to hunter satisfaction? The permit reduction came from reducing permits on the Pauns Mgt hunt because of they are meeting the objective, the Oak Cr unit because of the fire, and the Book Cliffs because the herd lost 20% of its population over the last few years and those fawns lost are not there to be hunted.


what's the reasoning behind a 12% reduction in tags on the Vernon?


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

option 2? getting credit for results already? That was faster than I thought!!

What about all the habitat work done years ago? Why doesn't anyone want to credit that work for any current increases? instead, we want to credit the immediate changes (coyote management, option 2). You guys are all nuts.

(from New Deer Units thread)


PBH said:


> habitat. Utahgolf is right. Habitat. Don Peay knows this -- and in a couple more years, when some of the habitat work done over the course of the last 10 years starts to show increases in the deer herd, he's going to pipe up and say "See!!! My coyote agenda from 2012 worked! I knew it would!". Habitat kids. Habitat.


I still say all the habitat work done 10-12 years ago is paying off today. All the work is proving beneficial. And, yes, SFW was involved in much of it. Why not slap yourself on the back for that, and continue that type of work? Instead, they'd rather tout predator control and buck management...


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## Bucksnbulls08 (Sep 18, 2008)

What about the general deer permits by unit?
Why does archery and muzzy always get shorted? These carry the lowest success rates yet rifle receives more of the permits. Seems bass akward if they are the least interested in increasing herd populations, age objectives and overall quality of the herds.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's an eye catcher,,,,, Wasatch LE elk.

Archery 164 permits
Rifle early 242 permits
muzzy 98 permits
premium 20 permits

Rifle late 131 permits,,,,,,,,,,,,ouch :!:


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

PBH said:


> What about all the habitat work done years ago? Why doesn't anyone want to credit that work for any current increases? instead, we want to credit the immediate changes (coyote management, option 2). You guys are all nuts.
> (from New Deer Units thread)
> 
> 
> ...


So you dont think 6,000 dead and paid for coyotes isnt going to bump the fawn crop this year?
I know those weren't all the coyotes killed because i didnt turn in mine.

Your would be up in the night if you think it wont increase fawn numbers this spring! Some how you think the more coyotes and deer we kill = more coyotes and more deer. :roll:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I agree with SW, I saw were 6k coyotes had been turned in for bounties, IMPRESSIVE!

Plus the ones shot by guys not registered this winter, PLUS the air gunning!
Got to be over 10,000 yotes hit the ground the last 6 months :!: :!: :!: 

HUGE impact on fawn survival this year, should help a TON :!:


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## ntrl_brn_rebel (Sep 7, 2007)

I was rubbing yall on the option 2 statement.....for the most part 

I do believe option 2 is going to help leaps and bounds and *did *this past year on units like the Cache who had waaaaaayyyyy to many hunters in years past.....

I just pray for an unprecedented wet spring and lots of moisture throughout the year!

On the coyote thing....I am impressed...guys are pounding them hard! I know a few trappers who have cleaned house and continue to do so as we speak, I plan on killing a few in the morning myself :mrgreen:

I do hope habitat work stays top priority and there is no doubt it is a big help....thanks don peay


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

o-||


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I agree with SW, I saw were 6k coyotes had been turned in for bounties, IMPRESSIVE!


Goofy, 6,000 coyotes is pretty impressive, but the problem with coyotes is when the coyote population is low in an area then coyotes will have larger litter as long and the food source will support them. So killing 6,000 coyotes really doesn't solve anything. There will be more than 6,000 coyote pups born this year. 6,000 coyotes doesn't even put a dent in the population. Maybe if we reached number like over 100,000 a year then we can really be impressed.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

That's 6,000 turn in for bounty,,--- It's somewhere around 10,000 dead IN 6 MONTHS!

Elk will start calving in 60 days, Fawns will be hitting the ground shortly after that....

Theres 10k dead yotes That WONT be killing new born elk/deer... Watch the survival rates RISE!!!----- This will take us down the road to MORE permits issued  8)


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

I, for one, am surprised at the permit increases on the Plateau pronghorn hunts. Last year, there were 58 buck permits. Now they're recommending 168.

Last year, there were 20 doe permits. This year, they're recommending 500!

I hunted that unit last year during buck season. I thought there was a good number of animals as it was, though I'm no biologist. I'm glad I got to do it last year because the crowding will be worse during the buck season and insane for does (hopefully they'll make a few different seasons to reduce crowding).


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I knew this was coming, I knew zero points would pull the archery Plateau lope tag.

BUT, I also knew that would pull me out of the OIAL moose I WANT TO GET DONE :!: 

I was down to the last day of applications agonizing over this one,
I love hunting antelope down there with the ol bow 

So I put in for elk, planning on another point, and hopefully they'll take my 
moose points this year, Gotta get it DONE :!:


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## fin little (Aug 26, 2010)

Has the Plateau antelope herd rebounded that much? The unit had an emergency closure in 2010, I think. Between buck and doe tags it looks like about 700 permits. 1(one) permit proposed for the Kaparowitz. Transplant?


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## Clarq (Jul 21, 2011)

fin little said:


> Has the Plateau antelope herd rebounded that much? The unit had an emergency closure in 2010, I think. Between buck and doe tags it looks like about 700 permits. 1(one) permit proposed for the Kaparowitz. Transplant?


I doubt it's rebounded too much. Everyone I talked to said that Plateau now is nothing like it was in the good old days. I guess it must have been way over objective back then.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> I knew this was coming, I knew zero points would pull the archery Plateau lope tag.
> 
> BUT, I also knew that would pull me out of the OIAL moose I WANT TO GET DONE :!:
> 
> ...


Just curious goofy, is there anything you don't know? You've taken credit for increases, decreases, and everything in between. I predict there will be a deer AND an elk hunt this fall. Just wait and see.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Plateau buck tags , almost 300 with expo/conservation and LE all added together,
500 doe tags = 800 permits.....

I know there have been fly counts taking place, and the unit is way over objective, again.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> and hopefully they'll take my moose points this year, Gotta get it DONE :!:


GOOD GAWD!!! You and me both! I fear though that I'm going to be wasting away in the dead moose point pile for many more years. Then when it comes time to put in for goats I'll be too old and crippled to hunt em. :? Poopstain! :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

^^^^^ I put my 17 moose points at Yellowstone, S slope...^^^^^^

The applicants and odd there have been verily consistent for 3 years now,
4 permits again this year, GOOD thing for me,..

If nothing bounces around, same guys apply, there will be 3 of us going after the 2 
bonus tags..........My fingers are crossed.

TEX, bet you put in for Wasatch>?? Just a wild guess from my behalf


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> TEX, bet you put in for Wasatch>?? Just a wild guess from my behalf


Copy that! I've hunted the front since I was 16 and know every corner of every canyon up there. Over the years I've had close encounters with some real bruiser bulls up there including the new archery state record bull. I don't give a crap about odds or who's putting in where or how many tags, if I cant hunt the front, I don't wanna tag at all. It will prolly take me fifty years to get a tag, but so be it... :roll: Same with goats. I've had so many big billy's within spitting distance of me it's not even funny any more. I think I could kill a goat up there with a wrist rocket and a well placed marble... :shock:


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## chipp (Nov 20, 2009)

Just because the people were getting paid it doesn't mean the same people wouldn't have been out shooting and trapping them anyways. I've been out and shot a few as I do every year it was just to much of a pain to turn them in for me if you only shoot a few. There have been many more than 6000 killed in the passed 6 months but I wouldn't expect there to be a better survival rate because someone got paid to kill them this year unlike last year.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

That survival rate wont do jack because they will get hit again this year. 

Sure they will rebound if we slow or let up but that's not the plan


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Packout said:


> Haha, some funny posts on this thread.
> 
> LE deer permit reduction related to hunter satisfaction? YES, Read this DWR release.
> The permit reduction came from reducing permits on the Pauns Mgt hunt because of they are meeting the objective, the Oak Cr unit because of the fire, and the Book Cliffs because the herd lost 20% of its population over the last few years and those fawns lost are not there to be hunted.
> ...


Wildlife biologists have been monitoring big game animals across Utah. They've also been collecting and analyzing imput from thousands of hunters who hunted big game in Utah last fall.
After surveying the herds from the ground and the air, and analyzing data collected from hunters - data that provides important information about how big game animals are doing in Utah - the biologists are ready to share their big game hunting permit recommendations for this fall's hunts.

Here's the release:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-ut ... rmits.html

"Biologists found a little of everything on Utah's 30 general-season units after the deer hunt was over last fall. On some units, the number of bucks per 100 does was above objective for the unit and was growing. Other units were stable. And, on some units, the number of bucks per 100 does was declining."

^^^^Exactly why option 2 was needed!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## stablebuck (Nov 22, 2007)

how's this for the lamest reason ever to decrease permits?!?!

Protecting buck deer on the north end of the Book Cliffs is the major reason for the recommended decrease.

Aoude says most of the bucks that are taken on the Book Cliffs are taken on the north end of the unit. The time of year when the hunt is held, and fairly open terrain that makes it easier for hunters to see deer, has led to more deer being taken on the north end of the unit than on the south end. "The low number of fawns that are produced on the Book Cliffs makes it harder to replace bucks once they're taken," Aoude says.

So change the weapon allocation and season dates...don't cut tags...nimrods...
Oh and to be "fair" to the bucks on the other LE units...we should cut those tags by the same percentage...except for the Henries...the Henry Mountain deer are super deer that are able to reproduce at a faster rate than the deer on other units... :roll:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Split the unit in two.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

The Book Cliffs was split in 2 for the first 3-4 years after it opened in the early 2000s, then they made it all into one unit/hunt in 2005 or so.

Goofy, I think I'll stick with my original response. The article in the link even supports what I said-- Buck numbers are low so they are cutting permits. 15-20% decrease in the Book Cliffs deer herd over the past 4 or so years. Cut permits to stay within the objective. Not that hard to understand.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

would it be possible for someone to post these recommendations to the thread?

... my computer isnt recognising the file. :?


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> That's 6,000 turn in for bounty,,--- It's somewhere around 10,000 dead IN 6 MONTHS!
> 
> Elk will start calving in 60 days, Fawns will be hitting the ground shortly after that....
> 
> Theres 10k dead yotes That WONT be killing new born elk/deer... Watch the survival rates RISE!!!----- This will take us down the road to MORE permits issued  8)


How many deer that would have been eaten by a coyote will be hit by a car instead?


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