# pointers and labs together!!!???



## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

I know this is going to be a topic of great debate. I seem to have a flair for topics that people are passionate about. So my topic today is do labs belong in the field with pointing dogs? I know a lot of people hunt upland game with labs however should labs and pointers be used together? Now i have german shorthair who is an amazing upland dog. He will point as well as retieve. He can and will retrieve in water. This is were the topic gets intersting, i have been hunting with a friend who has a lab and his lab is always busting my dogs points. It has even been to the point my dog gets a little aggresive over him busting up his work. I hate to tell him to leave his dog home. So i guess the question is should labs (or any retriever) be hunted with pointers?

( i must say i have nothing against labs my friends dog is an amazing duck dog! )


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Heck no! Leave the pointer home. The lab will get the bird up and the retrieve after the bird it shot. Point, shesh! :mrgreen:


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## Goshawk (Sep 7, 2007)

Yes you can run both dogs together. The pointer should range farther than the lab. If the pointer goes on point just have the lab called to heal. The lab should not be allowed to bust your dogs point. You should have this plan worked out with the lab owner prior to going afield.

Just don't leave the lab home...otherwise how will you find all the birds the shorthair misses???


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

Goshawk said:


> Yes you can run both dogs together. The pointer should range farther than the lab. *If the pointer goes on point just have the lab called to heal. The lab should not be allowed to bust your dogs point.* You should have this plan worked out with the lab owner prior to going afield.
> 
> Just don't leave the lab home...otherwise how will you find all the birds the shorthair misses???


That is the key. Both dogs can do good work and its good to have two different styles of dogs working to find the birds that another one may pass over. I just hate it when someone you hunt with tries to tell your dog what to do when theres is screwing around.


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## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

i never have to worry about people telling my dog what to do my dog doesnt listen anyone but me including my wife ha ha ha.


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

What Goshawk said.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

If you have a pointer that will hold while a flusher works to flush the bird being pointed it can be beneficial to do so in thick cover or steep nasty stuff.


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

shootemup said:


> i never have to worry about people telling my dog what to do my dog doesnt listen anyone but me including my wife ha ha ha.


My dog only listens to me too except for the basic safety commands so someone can call her out of the road but my problem is its just to hard to train the other person to shut up and stop yelling at my dogs! :twisted:


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I hunt mine together much the time, but you have to have a danged disciplined Lab to make it work. When my wirehair gets birdy I sit my Lab and give him his stay signal combined with a vibration on the collar to let him know I mean business. Sometimes it doesn't matter how far it is to the bird, the Lab will stay put until released. When it works, it's the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. Other times the Lab creeps or breaks and I have to correct him before I can move in on the bird. That's when hunting the two together becomes a drag and isn't really worth it. 
Hunting the two together on waterfowl is easy. The Lab makes all the retrieves and the wirehair gets a nice swim about halfway out to the bird by the time the Lab has been out and is already back waiting for the next duck. I just throw a duck back out to the wirehair once in awhile and he's perfectly happy with that setup.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

I hunt both together. I don't have it down as well as I'd like, but it's coming. In fact, I hunted with a few other guys with pointers this year and my lab made every retrieve. My GWP will retrieve, but he'd rather hunt. And when my lab's there, nothing is getting away if you make a poor shot and the bird falls and runs (or swims or dives).

I really enjoy hunting them together and feel it's the ideal scenario. But they're both my dogs. Hunting with someone else and their dog can often be a challenge. I think it has more to do with level of training than with breed or pointer/retriever.


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

I've been told that the UVRC is planning a Bird Dog Challenge for next month where teams of 2 can enter and all breeds are welcome. Might be a good opportunity to see just how well these breeds can complement each other while hunting...or see which one dominates the others! :twisted:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

In a case where you have pointing dogs that either don't retrieve or have been conditioned not to retrieve (AF) :roll: Running a retriever with the pointer might be a good idea. It is, as I understand it, the dogs duty to retrieve downed game. I mean hey, retrieving is 50% of his job in my book. A dog that won't or is not allowed to retrieve is *worthless* to me.

To be an ethical hunter one MUST hunt with a trained, well rounded dog that is a natural retriever. Anything else is just falling short of the bar as far as I'm concerned.

So, to answer the question. HELL NO! a pointer points, a flushing dog flushes, and a retriever retrieves. If your pointing and or flushing dog doesn't retrieve, you need a new dog. :wink:

Just buy a GWP, they do it all. And, they'll wash your car, keep the neighbors cat out of your yard, sit your kids, and do your taxes. :mrgreen:


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## coolgunnings (Sep 8, 2007)

The majoity of the guys I hunt with run pointers. I run a labrador. I can not say that when we hunt, that we hunt together. I do not want my labrador getting lazy and not hunting because the pointers and setters range so far out, and find the birds. My buddies do not want my labrador busting thier dog's points. So we take radios, set up a game plan and make a push. We are far enough away from each other that our dogs do not cross each other while hunting. It has been effective so far. And our dogs are not picking up bad habbits. I did not vote on the pole because it is a yes and no answer.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

tumblingwings said:


> The majoity of the guys I hunt with run pointers. I run a labrador. I can not say that when we hunt, that we hunt together. I do not want my labrador getting lazy and not hunting because the pointers and setters range so far out, and find the birds. My buddies do not want my labrador busting thier dog's points. So we take radios, set up a game plan and make a push. We are far enough away from each other that our dogs do not cross each other while hunting. It has been effective so far. And our dogs are not picking up bad habbits. I did not vote on the pole because it is a yes and no answer.


Good post. It sounds like you guys have it figured out. 8)


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## GSPonPoint (Sep 24, 2008)

What Goshawk said. I've been running my Lab and GSP together for a number of years and have found it to be a great combination. Both dogs are very good retrievers on land and water, in fact my GSP has made some remarkable retrieves this year, I'm very proud of him.
I feel the two compliment each other. If any bird gets missed by my GSP the Lab gets a find and flush. 
They Lab knows exactly what's going on out there and understand that when I tell him to either sit or heel that the GSP is on point. The Lab gets real excited but I keep him sitting and I move in and do the flushing.
As stated before, the Lab must be disciplined, otherwise don't bother trying it.


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

What!!! No body is going to bring up that you just need a Pointing Lab and then you have the best of both worlds. :shock: *(u)* *(u)* :twisted: :twisted: 

Sorry couldn't resist

Mark


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

I am with Tex in that what good is a dog that won't retrieve and find crippled birds it is part of the gig. I don't have a use for a lab around my setters. If it was my lab or someone that I had a lot of faith in their dog training abilities maybe. Because I could see the advantage to sending a dog in for the flush in certain situations. The disadvantage of turning a fine pointing dog into a point breaker is not worth it to me. I value the point more than anything, and don't mind wading in for the flush that is half the fun the only time it sucks is if you are alone in a situation where once you get in there you can not see to shoot. In that case you have some decisions to make.lol

Bret


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> I don't have a use for a lab around my setters.


At least the Lab would keep the fleas off your setters. :twisted:


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

Good point.  

Bret


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## coolgunnings (Sep 8, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> > I don't have a use for a lab around my setters.
> 
> 
> At least the Lab would keep the fleas off your setters. :twisted:


This may be, but those ugly dogs keep the fleas off of all the other dog breeds, and cats :shock: :lol:


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## Ryfly (Sep 13, 2007)

It's not a matter of the pointer retrieving or not. Both types of dogs hunt in different ways. Both will get you there in the end but there are times where one is better suited than the other. I agree a dog on point is pretty cool but I like just as much to read the "story" my Lab tells while finding birds.


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

My GWP tells a great story too. But the last time we went pheasant hunting, my lab flushed the first bird. I usually let the pointer range a bit and the lab works in close.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)




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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

Goshawk said:


> Yes you can run both dogs together. The pointer should range farther than the lab. If the pointer goes on point just have the lab called to heal. The lab should not be allowed to bust your dogs point. You should have this plan worked out with the lab owner prior to going afield.
> 
> Just don't leave the lab home...otherwise how will you find all the birds the shorthair misses???


get a setter!


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

Gumbo said:


> I hunt both together. I don't have it down as well as I'd like, but it's coming. In fact, I hunted with a few other guys with pointers this year and my lab made every retrieve. My GWP will retrieve, but he'd rather hunt. And when my lab's there, nothing is getting away if you make a poor shot and the bird falls and runs (or swims or dives).
> 
> I really enjoy hunting them together and feel it's the ideal scenario. But they're both my dogs. Hunting with someone else and their dog can often be a challenge. I think it has more to do with level of training than with breed or pointer/retriever.


Have you ever considered that you may have suppressed the desire in your GWP by allowing your lab to make all the retrieves??? Espeacily if your lab is the older dog. I love my GWP but they are no competition in swimming when compared to a lab. That being said they can be great waterfowl dogs and are lethal on downed birds. Just my $.02


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

tumblingwings said:


> The majoity of the guys I hunt with run pointers. I run a labrador. I can not say that when we hunt, that we hunt together. I do not want my labrador getting lazy and not hunting because the pointers and setters range so far out, and find the birds. My buddies do not want my labrador busting thier dog's points. So we take radios, set up a game plan and make a push. We are far enough away from each other that our dogs do not cross each other while hunting. It has been effective so far. And our dogs are not picking up bad habbits. I did not vote on the pole because it is a yes and no answer.


Wow the first objective post! and it is even from a Lab guy (Ironman did you read this :wink: )


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Thack said:


> ....(Ironman did you read this :wink: )


Yeah, let me translate what he actually said.
Pointers and Setters range too far for the hunters to get to the birds before they are flushed by the Lab that is not afraid to finish what it started and is willing to go in and put the bird in the air.
Also, that Pointer and Lab hunters can go hunting together, but they hunt in different areas. So, his poll vote IS really that Pointers and Labs should not hunt together!

The season is "short", get a Lab!


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

Thack said:


> Have you ever considered that you may have suppressed the desire in your GWP by allowing your lab to make all the retrieves??? Espeacily if your lab is the older dog. I love my GWP but they are no competition in swimming when compared to a lab. That being said they can be great waterfowl dogs and are lethal on downed birds. Just my $.02


Good point, and it's something I'll have to watch out for. I've had them both for about a year now, and hunt them solo occasionally.


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## DR_DEATH (Sep 10, 2007)

No problem for the group of guys we hunt with. We have a V a GSP and a pointing Lab that all hunt together. We have been doing this for a few years and seems to work great. Their has been a few instances in which some corrections needed to be made in the beginning, but on our last trip to Kansas it worked out great.

Jesse


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

OK, I've got a serious question. It been mentioned that to do this thing well, one needs to keep the lab at heel when the pointer is on point. Then you go in and flush the bird, so's not to cause the pointer grief.

So my question, why have the lab with you?

The other option, it seems is to not hunt the two together, but seperate, and let each one do his thing as their susposed too.


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## shootemup (Nov 30, 2008)

i agree zim


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> OK, I've got a serious question. It been mentioned that to do this thing well, one needs to keep the lab at heel when the pointer is on point. Then you go in and flush the bird, so's not to cause the pointer grief.
> So my question, why have the lab with you?
> The other option, it seems is to not hunt the two together, but seperate, and let each one do his thing as their susposed too.


Zimmy- that's a meatball down the middle of the plate. The answer is we find more birds with both dogs along. Duh! 
Seriously, though, why have the Lab with me? Because that's what he loves. He spins in circles when he sees the hunting boots on my feet. He jumps in the truck of his own accord, whether the tailgate's down or not. It's about the dog, not me. 
Wait, it kind of is about me: I don't have time to run both dogs separately all the time. I usually have a spare 45 minutes to hustle down the the local WMA or up to a walk-in and give the dogs a good run. Yes, the Lab can interfere with the pointing dog. My WPG retrieves all day long and he sure as heqq doesn't need a Lab to help him out. So what do I do? I sit the Lab and move in for the flush, allowing the dog who found the bird to make the retrieve. On the other hand, the Lab will almost always put up a bird or two on his own and he gets to put those birds in his mouth. 
Chocolate mixes nicely with vanilla, Zim! You just don't want to mix it all up with your spoon. Keep the two on their own side of the bowl and savor the experience 8) .


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

When you hunt with a pointer and a flusher there are a few different things you can do. I like to have the pointer out much further and the flusher in close. Both dogs should find birds as you try to walk in areas the pointer has not worked. There are times when you decide to take 2 different routes to make sure you cover more ground. when the pointer goes on point you again have options. If the point is in an area where it will be easy to get to the dog and make a flush then you can heel the flusher and take care of the flush yourself. If the pointer is in some kind of hell hole (chukar hunting) you can get to within shooting distance of the pointer and release the flusher to get the birds up. 

I have been working with my pointer and she seems to hold as long as she has been whoaed. The flusher coming in does not seem to bother her.

Once a bird goes down you can use both dogs for the retrieve. I have enjoyed hunting both together and think it allows for a lot more opportunity to take birds. 

To make it work both dogs need to understand what is expected of them.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Great points!

I suspected it had much to do with not wanting to leave one or the other at home.

8)


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## Gumbo (Sep 22, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> I suspected it had much to do with not wanting to leave one or the other at home. 8)


Sure, guilt is a factor (hearing the one whining and crying through the fence as I'm loading up the other in the truck is too much for me to take). But they just compliment each other so well.

My GWP is an OUTSTANDING hunter. I have a hard time taking him on walks because all he wants to do is hunt! I take him running and instead of running with me (like my lab does), he puts his nose to the ground and hunts. That's what my GWP does best. Sure, he'll retrieve too. But he'd rather hunt.

Enter the lab. He is the supreme retriever. If a bird goes down, he's coming back with it. Period! I already mentioned when I hunted him in a group of pointers--and he made every retrieve! That's because he lives to retrieve, and the pointers retrieve because they have to. There's a difference.

I've lost birds with my GWP, because he'd rather hunt than retrieve. I know Oprah is better trained than Gage, but if I would have had my lab along, every one of those birds would have been in my bag. So maybe it helps make up for my shortfalls as a trainer. And maybe my viewpoint will change over time as I become better at working with and training pointers. But for me, at this point in time, I can't imagine a better combination. Plus there's the fact that I love having them both out together watching them do what they love the most.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

Gumbo said:


> InvaderZim said:
> 
> 
> > I suspected it had much to do with not wanting to leave one or the other at home. 8)
> ...


Thats the best of both worlds! My opinion anyway! Do some searching and you will find that this is very popular in Plantation hunting. Most times you have the big running pointing dogs out finding the birds. Then you may have the scouts finding them dogs. Bring the dog buggy and hunters in and release the flushing dog with hunters in place. The Pointing dogs may do some retrieving but the retrievers are doing what they are there for, retrieving!
It's all in the matter of training! Also you hunt and train the two dogs well enough you can become very effective! 
And you need to keep the Lab around just in case the pointing dog gets a flea... Labs are here to keep the fleas off the good dogs!!!!


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