# Help with arrow balance



## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Ok, guys I need some help with my arrows. Over the last few years I have been geeting pretty decent arrow flight with broadheads but not great. So, I have been reading about higher front of center balance and how it helps your long range accuracy. I Just went through my hunting arrows and measured them out. Here is my set up, 100gr. G5 Montecs, Carbon Force X-weave pro 300's with a wrap. 6 have blazers and 6 have 4"vanes, and all 12 have Bohning nocks on the back. Arrow length is 30.875" from tip to the bottom of the nock groove. I came up with my figures based on the Easton arrow building guide.
The arrows with blazers are 8.3%, and the 4" vanes come in at 5.6%. I weighed my target arrows (same arrow, but no wrap, and alittle shorter tip) and came up with 11% w/Blazers, and 9.8% with the 4" vanes.

So here is my question: how can I increase my FOC balance without buying all new broadheads? If I absolutely have too, I will, but I would like to keep the ones I have since they are not exactly cheap. 
It's obvious that my wraps are hurting me, so maybe they need to come off. I have also been toying with the idea of buying those weight tubes and putting about 5" of a 2GPI in the front and then 1GPI on the rest.
Any other ideas??

I got a new bow this year and my arrow speeds will be alot higher this year than in previous years (280fps to 320fps), so I'm thinking I am going to have more flight issues this year if I don't make some changes to this setup.


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## Iron Bear (Nov 19, 2008)

I know nothing of carbon arrows. 

But in aluminum larger diameter shafts have different tapers on inserts. So maybe you could look into a different insert/outsert.

Unless you have epoxy on you inserts now. Which you probably do so never mind. Chalk another up to aluminum user friendlyness. :mrgreen:


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

For broadhead flight I like my foc around 12-16 percent and leaning more towards the heavy side. It gives you a mechanical advantage. 
example
You have to look at arrows like a lever and fulcrum. If you have a high foc the fulcrum will be located closer to the broadhead and the fletchings will have the mechanical advantage to steer the arrow. 

8% is ok for indoor 3d where you are looking for maximum speed and don't have the elements "wind" to deal with. Throw the wind in and your arrow could be flying sideways in a way to the animal. this will result in less penetration. 

attaching more weight to the front of your current arrows may lead to soft spine arrows and those wont fly well with broadheads either. 

I cant stress how important it is in an accurate bow/arrow combination for maximum accuracy/forgiveness. It is in a way a science. It takes time and patients and $$ 

I personally like the gold tip arrows for hunting they have add a weights you can use to attach to the insert inside the arrow for fine tuning and getting perfect arrow flight. Maybe they will work with your carbon express arrows.


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

I'll have to check into those GT inserts. I have enough length to cut off the current inserts and replace them, that way I could add weight accordingly.

Thanks.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

SW makes a good point. The heavier you are up front will also help with penetration as well. The more weight you pack up front will cause less vibration and flexing of the shaft when it contacts the target resulting in less arrow drag going through the animal. A shaft that has little or no flex and vibration will track through the target in a straighter path. That reduction in the drag coefficient can make a HUGE difference. Especially when shooting mechanicals. Extreme FoC (15% and higher) will always aid in better down range arrow flight, better performance in the wind, less required fletching to steer the arrow, and much better penetration.

These should do the trick.
http://www.3riversarchery.com/Broadhead ... oduct.html


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## stealthwaterfowl (Oct 27, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> For broadhead flight I like my foc around 12-16 percent and leaning more towards the heavy side. It gives you a mechanical advantage.
> example
> You have to look at arrows like a lever and fulcrum. If you have a high foc the fulcrum will be located closer to the broadhead and the fletchings will have the mechanical advantage to steer the arrow.
> 
> ...


I just started playing around with these, and they have upped my FOC from 9% to 13% just by putting a 20 gr. weight on the back of the insert. I'm thinking i may add one more 20 gr. weight and give that a shot to see the difference


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Where did you buy those inserts and weights? 
Did you have to order them on line?


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

Elkoholic8 said:


> Where did you buy those inserts and weights?
> Did you have to order them on line?


Jake's archery has them or your local shop can get them for you. Or you can find them online.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

FOC is dependant on what you are trying to accomplish...yes it may help downrange carry in a crosswind, but it won't increase your "penetrating energy" as that is determined by the arrow's total weight and velocity (Ke). 

Arrow flight at the ranges you're talking about shooting will be pretty stable as the vanes will have an increasing effect on the arrow's stability the further it gets from the bow. Accuracy and effectiveness will depend more on your bows tune than the arrow FOC... a heavier FOC will be more stable in a wind as it will have less tendency to "steer" away from your target... but is not a solve-all.

With the set-up you are shooting, taking some weight off the back of the arrow by cutting the wraps in half and using a lighter nock/vane combination and you can add a 5gr adapter ring to the front to increase the FOC. I wouldn't recommend shortening the arrows - the longer arrow will have a greater change in the FOC with those changes I mentioned, where a shorter arrow will have less of an effect... 

As for the GT threaded inserts and weights you've questioned ... you will want to look up the ID (inside diameter) of the shafts you are looking at using them in and the OD (outside diameter) of the inserts...and if you can, test them to make sure they will snugly fit together before buying them. GT inserts don't usually fit PSE shafts and vice versa...even a slight difference in ID/OD will mean reduced tolerances and likelyhood of adhesives not performing to their potential...


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

get four arrow that fly pretty good for as is. then go and get some small washers. add one or two at a time and shoot them at about 40 yards until you are satisfied with what the end result is. being everything is hitting and flying great for you. your arrow getting shoot from your bow and your form might not fly it's best at 15% foc. might shoot its best at 12% or even 19% play with it and find out what foc fly's best for the way you shoot


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

i am going to say a dirty word in this time and age you wanna hear it. shoot FEATHERS. 3 three inch feathers weigh as much as one vane. and another not so good word LOOSE the wraps they look pretty for the first 100 shots then the look like a white mark on the shaft. loose one vane and you have to scratch the other two and start over. well i'am done good night


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Feathers is not a dirty word!  

It's just not popular to use them any more. Why, I have no clue... They are a far superior fletching to plastic.

Now I'm done...


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## Elkoholic8 (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks for the advise. I have thought about feathers alittle bit, but from my previous experiences with them on target arrows, they just didn't last very long. I guess I'm too rough on them, and I have heard they don't do too well in wet weather.

I'm going to try the screw in weights, and probably shorter wraps or even no wraps. Really the only reason I put them on was it's easier to see what kind of blood you have on a black shaft....and your eye picks them up faster in flight.

I'll be tinkering with my hunitng arrows for the next while to get it right.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Those are the only two drawbacks for feathers. But think about this. When you hunt do you really stay out when it's nasty weather and raining or snowing? I just take a bag out of my pack and cover my arrows when it gets really wet. Also, when a feather wears out that means you're shooting a TON of arrows. When you use tape to apply them to the arrow it comes of just as easy as it goes on. When and if you wear your feathers out, just replace them with new ones. In my experience, the feathers usually outlast the arrow anyway...

Vanes are good for durability, that's it. They deform when they get pressed, they get stiffer in the cold weather making them less forgiving than they already are, and they're heavy. Something you don't want at the back of an arrow when you're trying to get better FoC.

I'm sure you'll draw your own conclusions but theses are just some of the things I've discovered over the last 40 years of tinkering with arrows for both trad stuff and compounds. Plus, aint tinkering fun!


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## team-A&S (Feb 1, 2010)

the more weight you add up front will weaken the spin of your arrow so take that into consideration 

+++ on feathers . Fletch some arrows for abuse and some for hunting. and you will never have weather problems


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

Elkoholic, everyone will have a "comment" or "opinion" but you need to develop your own theory as to what will or does work in your set-up. I think if the arrow shoots straight and hits where you want, then the set-up is good without changing it... a tuned bow is WAY more important than getting the "right spine" or putting the "right" rudders on them. If you want, we'll do some bare shaft shooting at 70 yards and see what kind of accuracy and penetration it'll dish out.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

TopofUtahArcher said:


> Elkoholic, a tuned bow is WAY more important than getting the "right spine" or putting the "right" rudders on them.


I will disagree with your statement! having a tuned bow is only one ingredient in the equation. You can have a tuned bow and still shoot like crap. If your arrows are not tuned to your bow you have not found the most forgiving set up.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

SW is right. It ALL has to be in sync or you're pizzing up a rope.


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

Baby steps boyz... Out of that bow set how he has it he can shoot just about any brand arrow from a 300 spine(or even heavier) to a 400(or lighter) spine as long as the bow is tuned and he doesn't fudge his grains/poundage ratio too far... if the bow isn't tuned it won't matter how accurate his arrow spine or FOC is - it won't shoot them well or consistently.


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