# TM C&R Tips



## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm making this post again as a TM angler PM'd me stating he's starting to see dead Tiger Muskies at Newton.

Believe you me I want to share this with you because in our early TM quest well I'll be the first to admit we made some really dumb mistakes but strived to learn from them. We're not perfect by any means but have learned from experience and reading.

Anyways, first here's a couple of links to view and then my .02 on the topic.

http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=766

http://wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/tiger_muskie_tips.php

Don't fight the fish to exhaustion&#8230;.get the fish to the boat as quickly as possible especially in the summer and higher water temps. Fighting the fish in warm water temps depletes oxygen and causes more TM to die when released.

Bottom-line...You don't want to use a Zebco 33 with 6-10# test line to fish for TM. Yea folks will say I landed a TM on 10# test line but they leave out how long they fought the fish to keep the line from breaking. Quality tackle and the proper line are a must. Strongly recommend superbraid rated to at least 60# test. We've yet to have a TM break our superbraid line...we use power pro.

Superbraid line will not stretch like mono and believe you me you can get the bertha to the boat quickly but you'll have to give a little especially when the fish wants to run if you've caught it on the cast. Get the fish turned around and stopped keeping your rod tip down and be ready as the fish will go for the launch and dive trying to throw the lure.

Always keep the rod tip down if you note the line coming up on the surface or if the fish is just coming along as you reel...the fish is going to go airborne and having your rod tip down will help prevent and even reduce the fish coming totally out of the water. If you feel like the lure seems to be ting, ting...pulling out of the fish...it isn't this is the TM famous head shaking just keep the line always tight.

A good quality large basket knotless net is recommended to help prevent injuring the eyes, fins, and protective coating. But these nets are pricey...so it's recommended but will leave that to you. Folks who see our net have a double take at it's size but well worth it. However these nets are large and can take up space in smaller boats...again just a recommendation.

Now if you hook into a TM:

Get it to the boat quickly in warmer temps.

Keep the fish in the net in water while removing the hook(s). We've found 85% of the time the hook comes out in the net as when you hook a TM 95% of the time it's just lipped hooked. However the larger the hooks the more likely they won't be coming out in the net.

If you have to cut the hook(s) cut the hooks and remove the pieces. We've cut line and dozens of hooks and carry spares with us. Folks hooks are cheap. You'll need a good mouth spreader and quality side cutters. We used other cutters and by far the Knipex is superior these things cut the largest of trebles/single hook with ease. Yea pricey but try using a pair of side cutters to cut a large Musky hook and you'll find out quickly as we did.

Once the hook(s) is out get it out of the way and stow the rod.

Don't place the fish on the bottom of a hot metal boat. If you have a boat without carpet have something to lie the fish on if you have to place the fish in the bottom of the boat but I recommend you don't as we all know what hot metal feels like I hope.

With the fish in the net get the camera out and ready meaning turn the camera on and have a measuring device ready prior to ever lifting the fish out of the net. This saves precious time as when the fish is out of the net and in the boat isn't the time to start look'n for the camera/tape measure or to even begin to remove hooks. Be prepared prior to ever lifting the fish out of the net.

With the TM in the water in the net grab the tail and turn it on side this puts the fish into a trance like state.

Never pinch the fish's eye's that's an ole wise tail. If you do this it will damage the eyes causing blindness.

Keep the fish on it's side firmly gripping the tail then with the other hand place it in the forward most portion of the gill plate not in the gills. Have a very firm and I mean firm grip. Lift the fish into the boat for a quick measurement/picture. We measure first then picture. Quickly back into the water or into the net if you want to make sure the picture turned out. We use a bump board to measure the fish as it's quick...

Never continually hold the fish in a vertical position as this can damage vital internal organs as gravity takes over. A fish uses the water to support it in the 'horizontal' position. Again don't hold the fish for any length of time in a vertical position always hold it with both hands in the horizontal position.

Don't place the fish on the bottom of a hot metal boat in the summer. Another death sentence to the fish.

You should never have the fish out of the water for more than 25-30 seconds maximum. We try like heck to have the fish back in the water in 20 seconds and it's quick measure/photo back in the water.

Now for the release don't just plop the fish over the side&#8230;place the fish in the water holding it's tail moving it from side to side with the other hand under it supporting the fish until you feel the fish wanting to swim away on its own. Just plopping a "large" TM over the side can be a death sentence to the fish.

Tiger Muskies are a "sterile" fish&#8230;once it's gone that's one less. The DWR was able to find a disease free strain and has again began stocking TM after several years of no stocking.

The TM is a very hearty fish and if properly caught then released "will" survive. However and unfortunately there will be a time or two when you've done everything right but the fish expires. A recommendation here...just don't leave the fish floating in the water please take the time and take it up on the shore and bury it.

So there you have it good luck and I hope the above helps allowing you to successfully release your fish.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Thanks for posting this K2. I remembered a similar post and did just what you have mentioned here and we successfully released two. The first one though did take quite awhile to gain his strength before he wanted to swim away but he was also lethargic on the fight. I am thinking especially at Newton those fish are being caught and released perhaps several times a day/week and require especially careful handling to ensure a successful release.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

I saw a small fish with an orange/green plastic hanging out of his lips that was obviously stressed. Upon closer inspection i saw a small piece of 6# or so mono tied directly to the jig which was atleast a 7/0 hook. Someone would probably have landed that fish and he may have survived if they would have added a steel leader or heavier line. I tried to net him and release the giant hook but he kept slipping under the surface. It was punched from the bottom of the jaw through the top jaw effectively keeping the fish from breathing or eating. Very sad. 
I did however see numerous fish that were very healthy. I had 5 decent fish follow to the boat and missed one.
Thanks Kim for the reminder.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

These are some good tips, if someone's got the TM bug and can afford all the extra gear.

Something to keep in mind though:

Not everyone at Pineview/Newton/Johnson/Cottonwood/Bullock are fishing for Tiger Muskies and they're not going to use a steel leader or 60lb rope for finesse bass fishing or whatever. If tigers are in the water, they're bound to find the end of someone's line who wasn't targeting them. More than likely, the line breaks and the fish enjoys a new piercing. It's inevitable, stuff happens.

And why would you give the fish a burial? Honest, I'm just trying to understand what good that does the ecosystem. Buried in the sand, all it does is feed land bugs. Drifting on the water and eventually sinking to the bottom of the lake, it feeds the forage, thus feeding the predators.

Also, taking this protected species to shore and burying it could pull up a technicality of illegal possession. By transporting the fish, you've assumed possession of it. By burying it, you've wasted wildlife.

Not trying to knit-pick because you've got some very good tips. Just want to make sure that we all see that there's more to those lakes than just TM and it would be pretty bad to have someone get a ticket for following well-meant advice.


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

LOAH said:


> These are some good tips, if someone's got the TM bug and can afford all the extra gear.
> 
> Something to keep in mind though:
> 
> ...


It would be nice if everyone would just snap there line if they hooked a musky while finesse fishing for bass but some people thinking monster fish monster fish, but the sad truth is not all but Most will try and fight the fish to exhaustion. Then what about the finesse fisherman that cast towards the muskie or try and catch that muskie following there lure. My .2 cents


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

LOAH said:


> These are some good tips, if someone's got the TM bug and can afford all the extra gear.
> 
> Something to keep in mind though:
> 
> ...


LOAH agree with what you posted...yep these fish will be caught by folks fishing for other species it happens...OBTW thats how we became addicted. I agree with Kade... folks need to be prepared and if they don't have the tackle...then don't fight the fish cut the line and then tell the story...but hey that's me and I know that's unrealistic but again thats me.

Now on my recommendation on burying...again I won't disagree with you...but for us and our passion for this fish we 'ain't going to leave one floating'...I've already contacted the DWR on this issue several months ago and technically yep you're correct...we'll take the risk and if a fish expires I'll be damned if we leave it floating...if buried correctly you won't have the sand flies etc...again it was just a recommendation based on our passion for this fish and what we would do...kinda like the lambasting folks get when holding a trout incorrectly or it covered in dirt etc...I'll pose this question...if one releases a trout it dies anglers doesn't want it at all...will the angler just say oh well.

To each their own...we'll take our chances and if one expires again without a doubt and hands down you won't find it floating but that is just us...if an angler wants to make the decision to leave it floating so be it but that won't happen with us out of our deep respect/passion for this fish of 10,000 casts...so call us addicted and respectful of this great species is all I'll say...how to dispose of a fish that expires is totally in the eyes of the Angler as I see it...you have my opinon on what we'll do and so does the DWR...so guess if one unfortunately expires and we get caught...we'll find out what happens.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

k2muskie said:


> I'll pose this question...if one releases a trout it dies anglers doesn't want it at all...will the angler just say oh well


If it died after the release, there's a good chance it's out of reach by the time it goes belly up. If it's dead or immobile at the time of the release, it's up to the angler. There's no legal obligation to keep it, but ethically it should be kept if it will be eaten. If it won't be eaten, then it's better off feeding the critters on the bottom of the lake instead of feeding the gulls at the landfill.

I'm still not clear on why you want to bury them. Out of respect for the fish?

Returning them to the ecosystem seems like the most responsible thing to do, for the fishery and for legalities. Don't you want the lake to benefit from the carcass?

Oh, nevermind. Passion over law. Got it.

Joe's Valley has TM now. One day I may hook into one (while fishing the ways I usually do). If this happens, you bet your butt I'll try to land it. I've never caught one and would really get a kick out of that.

Cut my line with a huge fish on? No way! I'm going to stand my ground, let my knees rattle, and get that sucker in for a photo. Honing one's fishing skills (playing and successfully landing fish) is part of fishing. If the line breaks, so be it. If the fish dies, that sucks, but there are more and will continue to be, thanks to our DWR's efforts to create these monsters.

Personally, if I land a 40 inch TM on 4lb mono, I'm a total Jedi and deserve big time props. :lol:

Trout guys have to deal with this type of thing a lot (slots, size restrictions, C&R mortalities). Suck it up and follow the regs like the rest of us. At the very least, don't try to pass your omission of the law off as okay since you seem to think they're all your personal pets.


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2007)

LOAH said:


> k2muskie said:
> 
> 
> > I'll pose this question...if one releases a trout it dies anglers doesn't want it at all...will the angler just say oh well
> ...


I am glad everyone doesn't believe in what your saying, then all the DWR efforts for these fish would be worthless.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Now look here I just caught my first musky last week and I have a great respect for these fish and would like to see everyone succesfully released. However Loah and K2 are both very conscious of ethics and laws while enjoying their outdoor pursuits. K2 fully acknowledged that technically it is illegal to bury one but at the same time is willing to accept the consequence if she is caught doing what she believes to be the right thing. Loahs points are equally valid and will handle the situation if it presents itself as he sees fit. There is no reason to turn this post into an argument over who is right or wrong. I appreciate K2S' informational posts especially about the mighty musky. If I had followed her advice from the gate I would have caught 2 the day I caught my first. I opted to stick with my 20lb monofilament and the first one broke the line and swam off with a 9.00 J-13 Rapala. Loahs points are also valid as these fish are in waters that other fish inhabit and it will happen from time to time a musky is hooked on trout gear chances are they wont be landed at least by my experience. Unlike trout muskys target the head of their prey and will most likely their teeth will cut through 6lb monofilament shortly after the strike. I don't know very many fishermen/women that are going to cut the line when there is a huge fish tugging on the other end.


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

LOAH said:


> k2muskie said:
> 
> 
> > Trout guys have to deal with this type of thing a lot (slots, size restrictions, C&R mortalities). Suck it up and follow the regs like the rest of us. At the very least, don't try to pass your omission of the law off as okay since you seem to think they're all your personal pets.


You have my opinion. I also bet you follow 100% of all the laws 100% of the time now don't you. :roll:

As far as the comment on personal pets...come-on...just because someone has a passion for any creature doesn't mean they see them as personal pets...get over yourself with those types of lame comments...We have respect and admiration for this species and as such we're not going to leave one floating and we don't see our passion for this fish as our own personal pets...furthermore even if the fish was a Trout I'd do the same thing out of how I feel about 'all' living creatures. With ice fish'n and fish that are too small to keep and die ...I don't leave them on the ice either...so again the personal pet comment was lame and I firmly believe a snide snip.

So I provided tips and LOAH if you want to get into a water-stream contest on the burying point knock yourself out but please try to refrain from the lame comparisons to 'pets'...it was a recommendation on what we'd do...so don't do it. If you want to leave any fish floating and feel nothing about it as its 'only a fish' including the DWR will stock more...well we don't share those same qualities including attitudes...

As I said, I contacted the DWR on this several months ago and if one expires we'll deal with the consequences of our actions as it's our CHOICE on how to dispose of the fish and no one elses...for us it's called doing the right thing by who we are and the respect we have for 'all' living creatures.


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## KennyC (Apr 28, 2010)

K2,
Loved your post and I am still awaiting the arrival of my 1st TM on the side of the boat. Unfortunatly I have been busy chasing Kokes lately. You will be the 1st to get the PIC of my TM. As for the burying the TM, everyone has their own ethical view and I agree with you if you are caught then so be it but you feel good inside. I know we have let trout as well as Kokes go and if they go belly up we just turn the boat around and try to lend a hand if that doesn't work then El Fish'o goes toward the count and then on the dinner table. I would deffinately accept a ticket for doing what I feel is right. The DWR does have a heart as well even though some are harsher than others, plus if anglers are out talking to the DWR then they will get to know you and know that you are about doing the right thing. Can't wait to see you out on the water again!


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

As much as I enjoyed luv2fish&hunt's aptly worded post, I'm taking fire.



k2muskie said:


> I also bet you follow 100% of all the laws 100% of the time now don't you.


I'm a real criminal. I roll through stop signs AND speed.

Then again, I'm not going to log onto a traffic forum (if those exist) and talk about it. Furthermore, if someone were to call me on it, I wouldn't argue or justify.



k2muskie said:


> As far as the comment on personal pets...come-on...just because someone has a passion for any creature doesn't mean they see them as personal pets...*get over yourself* with those types of lame comments...We have respect and admiration for this species and as such we're not going to leave one floating and we don't see our passion for this fish as our own personal pets...furthermore even if the fish was a Trout I'd do the same thing out of how I feel about 'all' living creatures. With ice fish'n and fish that are too small to keep and die ...I don't leave them on the ice either...so again the personal pet comment was lame and I firmly believe a snide snip.


Get over myself? I pointed out that you recommended doing something illegal. I was very civil about it. Then you tried justifying it by getting all patriotic on the TM. What does someone do with a pet that dies? Often times, they bury it. Nothing snide about the similarities there. Just a comparison.

When I probed for a better explanation (still haven't gotten it), all I got was:



> We have respect and admiration for this species and as such *we're not going to leave one floating*


So they're your soldiers now? Seriously, what does illegally burying protected wildlife (essentially stealing it from its ecosystem) have to do with respect and admiration? Why does your little ritual change anything about its passing? That's what I'm trying to understand.

One more thing. You've stated that you take your advice and recommendations very seriously and if you were to give bad info, you'd want to take action and get it resolved ASAP (remember the spring bobber thread?).

Well, you've started another thread (another repeat thread) preaching your ways and you've advised and recommended something that is illegal and could get someone into a bit of trouble. That's a little more serious than plugging the wrong fishing tool.

I pointed this out very constructively at first, but you got emotional. Glad you talked to the DWR about it to check, but if your intentions remain the same regardless of the regs, well here we are, bickering over fish.

BTW - If I were to actually target TM, of course I'd bring the right gear. And the "just a fish" thing doesn't apply. It's just part of what happens sometimes. It's called being mature about it. I have plenty of respect and admiration for Nature, in general.


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## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

Okay LOAH my first response to your post was I agreed and was not argumentative with anything you stated...I stated over and over and over again it was a recommendation... 

Your next response included the comment of 'personal pets' which yes I take as a firm snide snip as I have no doubt thats what you meant it to be.

I've read a lot of your posts as I 'do' find them informative...and have never picked up on this type of comment even when you I believe were pushed to provide a defensive comment back. 

So for me I 'do' find the comment of 'personal pets' including the tone of the paragraph I highlighted and reposnded to as your personal snide swipe at me. You can say what you want...but it was nothing more than an uncalled for comment from you, Lord-Of-All-Humans...period-dot by me. 

So again what I posted is a R-E-C-O-M-M-E-N-D-A-T-I-O-N on burying the fish...
Leave the fish floating follow the ROEs as you intrepet them (more to follow on that point below). For me I won't leave a Tiger Musky or any other fish floating or on the ice. That is just me and how I feel about it.

Now to get technical on the ROEs on this...the book states Tiger Muskies will be immediately released....correct???...define 'immediately released'...

For example I can spend say a while trying to release a fish obviously in distress...fish expires....as I see it I attempted to immediately release the fish but the fish wasn't swimming away I worked to keep the fish alive (so am I violating the ROEs of 'immediately release'...NO as I see it)...fish dies so I dispose of the body as I see it and what my beliefs are in regards to anything that has expired...yes I even buried my beta fish when it died...I didn't do the toliet flush...believe it or not. 

So my definition of immediately release is XXX was released and never to be seen again. I don't see 'release' as fish is going to die but you released it without attempting anything to possibly prevent the fish from dying. 

For the benefit of argument here...we've released a few Tiger Muskies...some will be gone right when they enter the water, some take a few more seconds/minutes, and some well take several and I mean several minutes. So we will immediately release but will also ensure the fish will swim on its own...and doesn't go belly up right when it goes back into the water...and some have done that...so just leave the fish belly up and not try to help it??? 

So once-and-for-all what I posted was a RECOMMENDATION on burying the fish...I contacted the DWR and OBTW the DWR individual understood my position and was also sympathic to this position. 

I'll do what I believe is the right thing thats how I feel about it and 'my' beliefs right wrong or indifferent...plus there's not one statement in the ROEs that states burying any fish is illegal...unless you can show me. Only thing I know of is I believe it has to be far enough from the shoreline... You et al can do whatever you desire with any fish that expires...I don't care as its your choice and I have my own freedom to make my own choice and will accept whatever consequences that my choice of burying a fish may bring. 

End-of-conversation on this by me.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

k2muskie said:


> Now to get technical on the ROEs on this...the book states Tiger Muskies will be immediately released....correct???...define 'immediately released'...
> 
> For example I can spend say a while trying to release a fish obviously in distress...fish expires....as I see it I attempted to immediately release the fish but the fish wasn't swimming away I worked to keep the fish alive (so am I violating the ROEs of 'immediately release'...NO as I see it)


I think that's fine, as long as the fish is in the water (which it is). Attempting to nurse the fish back to health, as I see it, is part of the release.



k2muskie said:


> Your next response included the comment of 'personal pets' which yes I take as a firm snide snip as I have no doubt thats what you meant it to be.


Oh come on. Honestly, while reading that you bury dead tiger muskies (which EVERYONE knows is your fish of obsession), the first thought that entered my mind was of someone burying their dog. A pet. That's where that came from and I genuinely wanted to hear more about it.

Please don't take it as a low blow. I used the word "seem" as in:



> you _seem_ to think they're all your personal pets.


It really seems that way to me. I'm not saying that's a bad thing either. I know that I feel a certain paternal kinship toward some of the fins that I chase. Especially the ones that are in spots that I've never seen a soul at. To me, those are "my" fish.

"I'm going back to my pond to find my big brown."

Of course I realize that they're not actually mine (unless I decide to keep them), but seeing how I'm one of the only humans (or possibly the only one) those fish are acquainted with, I see them as mine.

Anyhow, sorry for the debacle, but I felt like someone needed to point out the legal implications of your advice. My own personal flavor of expressing that led you down the wrong track and for that, I apologize.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Thank you everyone, for the tips and reminders about Tiger Muskie.
There has been some very helpfull information posted here.
Even though there are some differing views, I appreciate what everyone has said so far.
Please keep the information coming in but with a little less passion,[if you know what I mean].
Thanks,
Grandpa D.


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## scartinez (Apr 22, 2008)

I'm a bass guy and have hooked a few tiger muskies in my time. You got to be joking about me cutting my own line because a tiger ate my plastic. I've landed a few and put them back without any going belly up.


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