# Don't Let This Happen To You!!



## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Attached is a picture of the back half of an elk brought into our meat shop yesterday. The hunter was from back east, has hunted elk before, and cuts his own whitetails up back home. He shot this elk on opening morning, and the guide field dressed it, propped it open, and then went elk hunting some more with other hunters (they did not skin it). They did not get the elk out until 36 hours later! To get it out, the guide(s) drug the elk to the edge of rimrock, pushed it over to the next bench, repeating this until is was at the bottom of the ridge. 

Needless to say, the hunter was not pleased when he brought it to us. He has already lost close to 30 lbs of meat and will lose more due to bone sour -O,-. Could the hunter have said something, you bet, and likely did but to what effect? If I were to be on a guided hunt, I expect my guide/outfitter to be there every step of the way until my animal was out of the hills and hanging in camp or in town in a cooler. 

This is a blantant show of naivety or negligence for the guide.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

That's some horse crap right there.


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## phorisc (Feb 2, 2011)

holy crap...


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## Buckfinder (May 23, 2009)

It's hard to believe that you can get any meat off of that.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Should turn them in for wanton destruction. I've passed on shooting several critters because I knew I couldn't get them out in time. I have a neighbor who's all antler crazy but half the time he kills something he doesn't get the meat out before it rots. He'll still brag up the size of the rack though. Drives me nuts.

-DallanC


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## Stickboy (Oct 28, 2010)

Dude.......

"Guide" has to be in quotes.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

That waste IMO, they could have saved every bit of the elk, turn them in.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

people should really know who that guide is


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Anyone who knows anything about elk knows they go sour fast if you don't get the hide off so it can cool out. -O,-


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

this is just as much on the hunter as the guide! especially because you said he was an experienced hunter. Just because people have dumb ideas, doesn't mean you should go along with it. Wouldn't all of us on here see what the "guide" was about to do and say "what the hell are you thinking?" and then step in and say no way are you going to push my elk off the rimrock! Same thing with not getting that hide off and cooling down that meat down.


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

Sad, so sad. :frown: What a waste. That just torque me off. :frusty:


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Good Lord:!::!::!:


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> ...*then went elk hunting some more with other hunters* (they did not skin it). They did not get the elk out until 36 hours later!
> 
> This is a blantant show of naivety or negligence for the guide.


Sounds like straight up disrespect and GREED of the guides. They "needed" to get their next client an elk, so the already downed animal took the back seat. If that's really how it all went down, these people are not guides they're game pimps. What a waste.

I do wonder what the hunter was doing for those 36 hours though. He should have demanded that animal be taken off the mountain in a more timely fashion. In 36 hours there are a million things that can ruin your animal. flies, coyotes, bears, thieves, spoilage, magpies, etc. Then to top it all off, they threw it down the mountain??? I sure hope he didn't tip the pimps and he should have asked for some of his fees back.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

High Desert Elk said:


> Attached is a picture of the back half of an elk brought into our meat shop yesterday. The hunter was from back east, has hunted elk before, and cuts his own whitetails up back home. He shot this elk on opening morning, and the guide field dressed it, propped it open, and then went elk hunting some more with other hunters (they did not skin it). They did not get the elk out until 36 hours later! To get it out, the guide(s) drug the elk to the edge of rimrock, pushed it over to the next bench, repeating this until is was at the bottom of the ridge.
> 
> This is a blantant show of naivety or negligence for the guide. AND HUNTER


After reading the first paragraph I wonder just how much the hunter actually knew about what what going on and if he did indeed cut up whitetails back east. If he did then the last statement needs to include "AND HUNTER" as I did in red.

I know for a fact if it would of been me or any of the people that I hunt with we would of stayed with the elk and worked on it to get it out even if the guide headed elsewhere.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

High Desert Elk said:


> Attached is a picture of the back half of an elk brought into our meat shop yesterday. The hunter was from back east, has hunted elk before, and cuts his own whitetails up back home. He shot this elk on opening morning, and the guide field dressed it, propped it open, and then went elk hunting some more with other hunters (they did not skin it). They did not get the elk out until 36 hours later! To get it out, the guide(s)* drug the elk to the edge of rimrock, pushed it over to the next bench, repeating this until is was at the bottom of the ridge.*
> 
> Needless to say, the hunter was not pleased when he brought it to us. He has already lost close to 30 lbs of meat and will lose more due to bone sour -O,-. Could the hunter have said something, you bet, and likely did but to what effect? If I were to be on a guided hunt, I expect my guide/outfitter to be there every step of the way until my animal was out of the hills and hanging in camp or in town in a cooler.
> 
> This is a blantant show of naivety or negligence for the guide.


Man - I was raised very differently than this. How about showing some respect for the animal that you just killed instead of pushing it off rimrocks and tumbling it down the hill, only to let it rot. What's different about his situation vs the poaching cases we've been reading lately? Same result as the poaching cases isn't it? Some people's children...


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Stickboy said:


> Dude.......
> 
> "Guide" has to be in quotes.


Not really. It was a lisenced guide, not just a guy helping someone else out.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

utahgolf said:


> this is just as much on the hunter as the guide! especially because you said he was an experienced hunter. Just because people have dumb ideas, doesn't mean you should go along with it. Wouldn't all of us on here see what the "guide" was about to do and say "what the hell are you thinking?" and then step in and say no way are you going to push my elk off the rimrock! Same thing with not getting that hide off and cooling down that meat down.


Perhaps. The hunter could have objected until he was blue in the face. If he did not have the equipment with him because he flew in, then how could he have really taken care of it himself? If he rode out with his guide, and the guide took off, what is the hunter supposed to do? Who is to say the hunter was even there when they started this mess, people hunting with the guide could have pushed it onto the first bench before he got there and then they were committed. Don't know. Not really trying to get to the bottom of who did what, but the proof is there that proper protocol was not followed, and I'm sure the truth is between two sides of the story.

Bottom line is - a guide/outfitter is your employee when you pay for a hunt. You as the hunter are using them for their knowledge of the area, and sometimes knowledge of how to hunt an animal. In short, they do what you say, not the other way around. Regardless of how experienced a hunter is, the guide is in contract with the state agency to know what to do, and how to do it. The guide is responsible to a large degree of the outcome. In this state, the regs read that all you have to do is get a majority of all the edible portions of meat out of the field to a place of storage or to where it can be processed. They did that, but we all know the effort was pathetic at best.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Gentlemen - 

This is a very, very small sample of the "crap" you as a meat processor sees coming through your door every fall. Trust me, I have seen much, much worse. We have had to throw an entire elk carcass away before due to bone sour. Nasty nasty!


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## elkaddict11 (Jun 16, 2014)

High Desert Elk said:


> Gentlemen -
> 
> This is a very, very small sample of the "crap" you as a meat processor sees coming through your door every fall. Trust me, I have seen much, much worse. We have had to throw an entire elk carcass away before due to bone sour. Nasty nasty!


What is Bone Sour? I've never heard this term before.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

it is from slow cooling the meat rather than cooling it as quickly as possible. It happens more often than not around the shoulders and hip joints. It is basically from not giving a crap and having no respect for the animal. I would venture to say it is avoidable pretty much every time.


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## elkaddict11 (Jun 16, 2014)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> it is from slow cooling the meat rather than cooling it as quickly as possible. It happens more often than not around the shoulders and hip joints. It is basically from not giving a crap and having no respect for the animal. I would venture to say it is avoidable pretty much every time.


I skin, quarter, and hang all my meat. As long as it's in a cool shaded area I shouldn't have to worry about bone sour should?


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

no you shouldn't. Getting it done timely is important. There are many ways to take care of meat properly. I often build a bed of branches near a small drainage area in the shade as well. Layer the meat with pine bows and allow air circulation. At night the cooler air will hang low as well as in the day. Read up on it and find a method that works best for you.


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## elkaddict11 (Jun 16, 2014)

Will do! Thanks for the tips! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't unknowingly destroying precious meat!


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## EricH (May 3, 2014)

DallanC said:


> Should turn them in for wanton destruction. I've passed on shooting several critters because I knew I couldn't get them out in time. I have a neighbor who's all antler crazy but half the time he kills something he doesn't get the meat out before it rots. He'll still brag up the size of the rack though. Drives me nuts.
> 
> -DallanC


In Alaska you must salvage ALL meat and remove it from the field before you remove antlers/horns/hide from the field. Sounds like Utah needs it.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

it sounds like the guides need to be pushed over the rock edge and repeated over and over. that bull crap.


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## quartz (Dec 16, 2013)

Please publish the name of the guide service.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

EricH said:


> In Alaska you must salvage ALL meat and remove it from the field before you remove antlers/horns/hide from the field. Sounds like Utah needs it.


Oh I know, I've hunted Alaska... been there done that.

All my elk are hanging at the butcher within a couple hours of being killed. I always leave the hide on because I know I can get them there quickly, and it keeps the meat as clean as possible. I've yet to bring out an elk that wasn't whole :mrgreen:

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Oh I know, I've hunted Alaska... been there done that.
> 
> All my elk are hanging at the butcher within a couple hours of being killed. I always leave the hide on because I know I can get them there quickly, and it keeps the meat as clean as possible. I've yet to bring out an elk that wasn't whole :mrgreen:
> 
> -DallanC


You have now just cursed yourself with that statement. I was able to drive my truck to a elk one year and then the next I had to pack 3 miles to where I could get my wheeler to. Then two years after that I shot another elk that I could drive to, then the next 3 I had to pack.

I agree on keeping the meat clean but if you have quality game bags and not cheap ones you can do the same thing after skinning and cutting the elk into pieces. I have lost very little if any meat to the excuse of dirt being on the meat or spoilage.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> You have now just cursed yourself with that statement. I was able to drive my truck to a elk one year and then the next I had to pack 3 miles to where I could get my wheeler to. Then two years after that I shot another elk that I could drive to, then the next 3 I had to pack.


I will never hunt elk that far from a road... EVAR 8)



> I agree on keeping the meat clean but if you have quality game bags and not cheap ones you can do the same thing after skinning and cutting the elk into pieces. I have lost very little if any meat to the excuse of dirt being on the meat or spoilage.


Those work great too, I personally use "Alaska Game Bags" brand, they have worked well and clean easy after the hunt.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

That elk that I packed 3 miles was shot much closer to the road but the shot didn't put him down. It was a long story and a long tracking job to get to him but I finally did. 

I guess that I could of just said that I missed and left it at that but when I found that first little speck of blood I knew that I was in for a long day.


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## 12many (Apr 14, 2008)

quartz said:


> Please publish the name of the guide service.


 I agree call them out in an open forum so others know what quality of service they provide. 
For a good quality game bag I use a queen size sheet from Wal-Mart folded in 1/2 sewn on 2 sides, it works great and if its not torn can be washed and reused.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> That elk that I packed 3 miles was shot much closer to the road but the shot didn't put him down. It was a long story and a long tracking job to get to him but I finally did.
> 
> I guess that I could of just said that I missed and left it at that but when I found that first little speck of blood I knew that I was in for a long day.


That would suck, but kudo's for sticking with it.

-DallanC


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

quartz said:


> Please publish the name of the guide service.


Can't (and won't I guess). That could open up a bunch of slander stuff as a business is involved. A "crime" wasn't committed. Piss poor judgement was made and the end result is, well, you know.

This I promise, if anyone asks about this particular outfitter/guide as though they are thinking about using them, then a PM or something would be used to steer clear.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> I will never hunt elk that far from a road... EVAR 8)
> 
> -DallanC


Guess I just hunt the wrong places sometimes I guess because in those areas you are not allowed to travel off road for game retrieval and the elk just don't hang out close to the road.

If I knew I could get an elk into a cool place within a couple of hours (in late Oct or later) I would leave the hide on too. It does do wonders of keeping them clean. Now, Sept or way early Oct is a different story.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

Yep, pretty disgusting. Even if they wanted to get on with their next client, it only takes about an hour to quarter and hang the meat in the shade if you know what you're doing. This time of year you can probably get away with 36 hours of "aging" in the shade as long as you get the hide off, get it hung higher than the coyotes can get to it, with heavy enough bags to keep the dirt, magpies and crows out of it. It's pretty inexcusable.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

DallanC said:


> Oh I know, I've hunted Alaska... been there done that.
> 
> All my elk are hanging at the butcher within a couple hours of being killed. I always leave the hide on because I know I can get them there quickly, and it keeps the meat as clean as possible. I've yet to bring out an elk that wasn't whole :mrgreen:
> 
> -DallanC


Geeze, my experience is the exact opposite. Every one of my elk has had to come out in pieces...typically several miles from my truck!

I need to find a place like yours! I'm young enough to pack them now, but in another 15-20 years it won't be so!!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

MWScott72 said:


> Geeze, my experience is the exact opposite. Every one of my elk has had to come out in pieces...typically several miles from my truck!


My boys 2014 elk, using the tip up ez load trick. :mrgreen:

-DallanC


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

This reads like just another one of those elk hunting stories about the "W" word - "work". We'll do anything to avoid it - hire a guide, use the "gutless" method, pay the ATV fine, leave it to rot, whatever. Just nab the photo and we're good to go.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I really like the E-Z Tip up method, may have to adopt that one day!

This is how mine came out and ended up...probably took a couple hours total from gunshot to game bag. Is that too long?


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