# Lambs/Parley's laws



## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Hey guys I took a Sunday drive to show my wife some of the fall colors in Parley's canyon yesterday. I decided to stop in Lambs canyon and hike up the trail a little just to see what it was looking like. I had the dog in my car to take the ride with us but knew they are not allowed to hike in the watershed. I cracked all the windows to leave my dog in the car while we hiked.
As I was getting ready to go hike a cop drove passed and saw the dog in the car. He stopped and before he had a chance to say anything I walked up said hello and that I'm not letting the dog out of the car, just hiking in about half mile. He said you can't have dogs in the canyon, I said yeah I'm leaving him in the car. He said I can't have him in the car, this really shocked me and my wifed asked why and he explained it was because of the watershed. I think it is INSANE but just told him that I knew I couldn't take him out of the car but didn't know I couldn't even drive through the canyon with a dog in the car. He said yeah your going to have to leave and he can give me a ticket. 
I started to ask him if I could have a rifle in Lamb's canyon but he was already getting touchy just cause I was there in the first place.
I like to have Lamb's as one of the options for my Dad's rifle Elk hunt.
Do you guys know of any other INSANE laws that I need to look out for while hunting in salt stupid county?
As for the whole dog law I think Salt Lake is insane!!! I really think it would never even hold up if they wrote you a ticket for it!


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## Andymansavage (Sep 19, 2008)

you can drive the canyon with a dog in your car, you just can't park.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

I was told you can't even drive with a dog in your car in the Cottonwoods, I would assume Lambs is in the same boat.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

You cant use a rife any where south of i-80 let alone in lambs canyon. 

Also it should be against the law leaving a dog in the car just like its against the law leaving a kid in a car unattended.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

You CAN use a rifle south of I-80, just not to hunt deer. You just need to be in line with county and city regulations.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

jahan said:


> I was told you can't even drive with a dog in your car in the Cottonwoods, I would assume Lambs is in the same boat.


So the people that live up there cannot own dogs? Sounds a bit stupid to me. How do you figure that a dog in a car is a threat to the watershed and a dog that resides up there all year isn't?


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

MadHunter said:


> jahan said:
> 
> 
> > I was told you can't even drive with a dog in your car in the Cottonwoods, I would assume Lambs is in the same boat.
> ...


I don't agree with it, I am just relaying what I was told. I would imagine you would not get grief if you were not to stop if you had a dog in the car.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

I hear you Jeremy. I know your just a messenger. 
But I find rules like this beyond stupid


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## StillAboveGround (Aug 20, 2011)

I know for a fact that the Sheriff's Dept. trains their dogs in the water shed (Mtn Dell)...
I guess their dog's poo don't stink...
I obviously don't understand what the big deal is, since all the wild animals poo in the woods...
and all the water goes thru treatment...
Perhaps someone connected with water treatment could enlighten us...


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

StillAboveGround said:


> I know for a fact that the Sheriff's Dept. trains their dogs in the water shed (Mtn Dell)...
> I guess their dog's poo don't stink...
> I obviously don't understand what the big deal is, since all the wild animals poo in the woods...
> and all the water goes thru treatment...
> Perhaps someone connected with water treatment could enlighten us...


West of Mnt. Dell is okay...East of it is not.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't understand the watershed deal either. I would assume all of the moose, deer, and elk crap and pee 10 times more than any of the dogs would up there on a daily hike. Plus all of the hikers peeing on the side of the trail. Why isn't it illegal to go to the bathroom off the trail up those canyons as well? So DUMB! That is like Obama wanting to tax ranchers for methane emitted by each of their cattle, supposedly causing our "global warming".


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

swbuckmaster said:


> You cant use a rife any where south of i-80 let alone in lambs canyon.
> 
> Also it should be against the law leaving a dog in the car just like its against the law leaving a kid in a car unattended.


Why? You think they are better off in the backyard, outside, than in a car that is outside? I know I know if you leave the thing in the sun a car can reach 5,000 deg. in 30 seconds!!
If I want to leave my dog in a car with windows 6 inches open in a shaded area when it is 50 deg. out why is that wrong? I think you should just treat your dog how you want and I'll treat my dog how I want. 
So, how about making it against the law to keep your dog outside, I mean that is just wrong to have him out the yard in the middle of summer!!! 
It is called personal responsibility!!!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

its kind of nice knowing you cant have dogs in quite a few of the canyons. I for one get sick and tired of seeing the poooo bags hanging in the trees from the people who use there dogs in the canyons where you can have dogs.

as for the dog laws in a car. well why do you think people passed the no kids left in a car. someone forgot and dead babies was the result. Ive even seen a dead dog left in a car.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I thought your car was an extention of your home? I don't know how they can make a law that tells me what I can have in my car?

Don't get me wrong, I think most people that go hiking with dogs SUCK!! They don't clean up after them which is my least issue. They almost never observe leash laws and they all think their dog won't bite! I'm glad the area is off limits for dogs, I just think telling me I can't have my dog in the car is a joke, but this is Salt Lake county we are talking about. I know they have to do what they think is best for the water shed, until it infringes on my rights. I don't have the right to go doing whatever I want on public land, but I do have the right to have in my car whatever the heck is legal on any other street.


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## walter sobchak (Jul 3, 2009)

you can only have a dog in your car if you're passing through, lambs doesn't count as it's dead end... and residents in watershed can and do have tags to have a dog. 

for whatever it's worth, fecal coliform is how they measure the water quality. when compared to millcreek and emigration, which don't have sewers and allow dogs, the levels in those two canyons are much higher than those that don't, say city creek, little and big cottonwood. millcreek has a lot of dogs and few houses, emigration is the opposite. so the dogs do make a difference on water quality. 

and, i don't know how many of you hunt in millcreek during the late season hunts, but i do know that the dogs there chasing wildlife have led to more than a few moose and elk dying from exhaustion from all the times they've been chased during winter by people's dogs.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Walter I'm not saying they should let me hike my dog in a watershed. My point is that my car is an extension of my home and they can't say that I can't have my dog in my car. I am glad that area is dog free when it comes to the trails, but to tell me that I can't park my car and leave my dog in the car is just a little overboard. Is there really a law that says I can't stop my car with a dog in the car while in lamb's? If so how can they do that when other laws say that the car is an extension of your home?
Like I said, I'm not arguing that they should let dogs hike on the trails but leaving the dog in my own car!!!!????? I'm going to get after this, it is unreal that a guy can tell me I can't have my dog in my car on a public road, I think a law is about to change!!


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## RoosterKiller (May 27, 2011)

Rules like this get passed becuase we are unaware.Once stupid rules get in place you then realize that you are losing your rights.To combat this you must be ever vigilant and speak out against it. Get your local chapters on whatever club you belong to to try and challenge these lame laws.Only by getting involved will you be able to battle against this type of infringement.


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## StillAboveGround (Aug 20, 2011)

Bowdacious said:


> West of Mnt. Dell is okay...East of it is not.


I watched Sheriff Dept train dogs East of Little Dell Res. next to the stream.
I asked them about having dogs in the watershed...
They said they could do it.

Still would like to know the rational for no dogs in watershed from water treatment person.


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## StillAboveGround (Aug 20, 2011)

walter sobchak said:


> ...for whatever it's worth, fecal coliform is how they measure the water quality. when compared to millcreek and emigration, which don't have sewers and allow dogs, the levels in those two canyons are much higher than those that don't, say city creek, little and big cottonwood. millcreek has a lot of dogs and few houses, emigration is the opposite. so the dogs do make a difference on water quality.


I don't disagree, but isn't all the water chlorinated to kill coliform bacteria regardless of pre-treatment counts?



walter sobchak said:


> ...i don't know how many of you hunt in millcreek during the late season hunts, but i do know that the dogs there chasing wildlife have led to more than a few moose and elk dying from exhaustion from all the times they've been chased during winter by people's dogs.


Who would be responsible for enforcing that? another example why it would not be good for me to be King.


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## walter sobchak (Jul 3, 2009)

i think that the local conservation officer or sl county animal control would be responsible for enforcing the dogs chasing the wildlife? but good luck getting anyone on the snow up millcreek to attempt to enforce until it's too late. dog leash laws are hardly enforced up there from what i've seen.

as for the dogs in the watershed, it's not just dogs impacting the water and you can definitely treat it. but, consider the rest of the bigger picture.

in a lot of places in other states you can't even go in the areas where the drinking water comes from, they are closed to the public - period. here, we have homes with complete with leaking septic tanks, asphalt trucks crashing into the stream (or people like that guy who launched off the little cottonwood canyon highway in the porsche last winter) as well as ski resorts with all the trappings necessary to stay in business - leaking hydraulic fuel, salt on the roads for the skiers/boarders to get up there adding to the stream and of course tons of recreation... including whatever else you can think of or have seen while hunting. so while you have the chlorine that can treat the water (and the rest of the process) it's not setup for super polluted water. as i understand it, it's a death by a thousand cuts type of thing and the idea is to keep the costs down for treatment.


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## Pops2 (Jul 28, 2010)

they have defective magic water purifiers
they can clean the elk, deer, bear, lion, bobcat, coyote & fox poop out of the water. they can clean dog poop out of the water if it first falls in the dogs own yard
but they cannot clean dog or horse poop out if it falls on public land in the canyons.


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I know it isn't about cleaning "poop"...it's about killing bacteria and volumes of bacteria. If we were talking about a few dogs or a few horses, there wouldn't be a problem. But if there was open access for these animals, we sure wouldn't be talking about just a few. I've also been told that it has something to do with the fact that wild animals eat natural food from the area and domestic animals don't. What I don't get at all is how the golf course can carry on - surely they use fertilizers and herbicides?


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

StillAboveGround said:


> walter sobchak said:
> 
> 
> > ...for whatever it's worth, fecal coliform is how they measure the water quality. when compared to millcreek and emigration, which don't have sewers and allow dogs, the levels in those two canyons are much higher than those that don't, say city creek, little and big cottonwood. millcreek has a lot of dogs and few houses, emigration is the opposite. so the dogs do make a difference on water quality.
> ...


Who would be responsible for enforcing that? another example why it would not be good for me to be King.[/quote:15z3vgmn]

I haven't personally been through the treatments plants in this valley, but I have been through many up in Cache Valley for school. It is amazing how much goes into getting water to meet all of the standards. I will admit it is an inconvenience not be able to take you pets up there, but I will leave it to the experts to decide what is right in this department.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

Finnegan is right on the mark. The food that our pets eat is grain based and generates massive volumes of bacteria. The wild animals eat grasses and browse which produces very little bacteria. We have the same issue with grain fed beef and grass fed beef, the grain fed beef is responsible for 99% of the ecoli cases.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Have any of you guys seen the mess the dog owners leave in the canyons where they are allowed? 

It looks like Christmas year round with the multi colored poop bags hanging in the trees everywhere. Still cant under stand the logic of picking up the poop and throwing it in the trees and off the trail. 

I going to go out on a limb and say it has nothing to do with bacteria and has everything to do with the trash and poop bags the dog lovers leave all over the place.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

swbuckmaster said:


> Have any of you guys seen the mess the dog owners leave in the canyons where they are allowed?
> 
> It looks like Christmas year round with the multi colored poop bags hanging in the trees everywhere. Still cant under stand the logic of picking up the poop and throwing it in the trees and off the trail.
> 
> I going to go out on a limb and say it has nothing to do with bacteria and has everything to do with the trash and poop bags the dog lovers leave all over the place.


To answer your one question, the reason people hang them in the tree is because they don't want to carry them and they are SUPPOSE to pick them up on there way back down. I have done this before and actually picked up several others plus mine, kinda gross.


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## UTarcher72 (May 31, 2011)

consider this...i know you are ticked cuz your dog is in your car, but figure the officer, or any other law enforcement is likely looking at it from this perspective; if your dog is up there, yes even in your car, you represent a problem meaning that at some point your dog will need to take a dump or pee, so being an irresponsible person, you likely will let the dog out to do its business and then put it back in your car. That would be why they don't want your dog up their period. I think that is reasonable, considering the watershed restrictions that are in place. Bottom line, take your dog somewhere else where it is permitted. Remember it is the bad behaviour of a few people that cause the problems for the rest of us.


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## lunkerjunker (Aug 8, 2011)

You can NOT hunt deer or elk with a rifle or muzzleloader South of I-80 and east of I-15 in SL county.


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## lunkerjunker (Aug 8, 2011)

Correction, there is a cow only elk hunt that is any weapon. That must be new this year, super. But it also depends on loacl city laws so who the hell knows.


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

I never did a study on it but I can tell you that a dog turd is much worse to step in than a coyote or elk turd!! I mean dog dueces are discusting!!!

As for the rifle law, didn't the state make SLcounty change their no rifle laws last year? I heard that the state controls gun laws and forced salt lake to drop the law saying no guns in certain areas?
Who can I call, should I call the sherrif and ask for the statue number? I've noticed salt lake cops will often just tell you no you can't do something because they don't want you doing but it really isn't a law. I know last year that area was packed for the rifle season so I guess a lot of guys got tickets!!
What would be the point of not letting you have guns in those areas? So, I can shoot on the north side of the highway but not the south side! Do bullets not go south as well as they go north? Kinda stupid!!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> As for the rifle law, didn't the state make SLcounty change their no rifle laws last year? I heard that the state controls gun laws and forced salt lake to drop the law saying no guns in certain areas?
> Who can I call, should I call the sherrif and ask for the statue number? I've noticed salt lake cops will often just tell you no you can't do something because they don't want you doing but it really isn't a law. I know last year that area was packed for the rifle season so I guess a lot of guys got tickets!!
> What would be the point of not letting you have guns in those areas? So, I can shoot on the north side of the highway but not the south side! Do bullets not go south as well as they go north? Kinda stupid!!


There are several good reasons rifles are not allowed for the general deer hunt south of I-80

One is the exact same reason the rifle hunt was shut down in immigration canyon last year and archery only was implemented. Tards were shooting rifles to close to rich peoples houses. They were also shooting over rich peoples houses. They were also shooting to close to high population areas and had lots of complaints.

The other is in the high population areas you still need to control the animals. Archers have proven they can control the deer numbers with out the boom bang over peoples houses and have also at the same time created a magic spot for Henry quality animals with an over the counter tag. If you want to hunt this area put your rifle away and pick up a bow. ITS THAT EASY!

The reason you can still hunt cow elk/oil animals with a rifle in an archery only area for deer. Is Archers have shown they cannot control an elk herd from going out of control. They are ineffective at killing or wounding them despite what rifle hunters say. So the division is still forced to allow rifle guys in to shoot the cows out so the herd size is managed.

Its simple and I cannot figure out why rifle hunters complain so much about these areas. Just have a look at the areas you are allowed to hunt and look at the quality. Its all shot out unless it is a LE unit where they dont allow any tags. If you want to hunt the front get a bow and quit complaining. If the rest of the state was managed for limited rifles and unlimited archers it would have high quality bucks, High buck to doe ratios, while still allowing over counter tags.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

No rifles is a hunting regulation, not a gun regulation.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

The dog and horse regulations in the canyons are for ease of enforcement. Period.......

As far as water quality, I can assure you technology can handle water coming out of the canyon whether the dogs and horses are dumping there or not.

And last time I checked horses eat grass. So they're on the list why?


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Sawbuck chill out, I do own a bow. I already filled a cow tag with it so get off my case!!
I asked about a law it is that simple, and it is not your problem if I am asking about a law. I don't know why it got under your skin so much that I want to hunt with a rifle in Lamb's. Are you still mad at me because I leave my dog in my car??
You telling me they don't shoot close to homes on the entire wasatch front? That area is totall hippie liberalville and I'd guess that is why they don't let you hunt with a rifle. Personaly I feel the same way you do because it gives bow hunters like me a great place to hunt!


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## hoghunter011583 (Jul 21, 2008)

Huntoholic said:


> The dog and horse regulations in the canyons are for ease of enforcement. Period.......
> 
> As far as water quality, I can assure you technology can handle water coming out of the canyon whether the dogs and horses are dumping there or not.
> 
> And last time I checked horses eat grass. So they're on the list why?


Because that area is controlled by california hippies who don't want you to disrupt nature! That is the real reason I suspect, I won't be suprised if one day that whole area gets shut down to hunters all together.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

hoghunter011583 said:


> Sawbuck chill out, I do own a bow. I already filled a cow tag with it so get off my case!!
> I asked about a law it is that simple, and it is not your problem if I am asking about a law. I don't know why it got under your skin so much that I want to hunt with a rifle in Lamb's. Are you still mad at me because I leave my dog in my car??
> You telling me they don't shoot close to homes on the entire wasatch front? That area is totall hippie liberalville and I'd guess that is why they don't let you hunt with a rifle. Personaly I feel the same way you do because it gives bow hunters like me a great place to hunt!


dude you asked a question about a law and I answered it. I'm not on your case! I also didn't even notice you were the one that left your dog in the car.

It gets tiring trying to defend the relentless attack on front! This is why my answers are blunt and to the point and sometimes lacking tact! Im just fed up with certain organizations/hunting groups trying to eliminate this area.


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