# Know this guy?



## Huge29

I am just reposting from an FB group for a guy I know, so if you do him let me know and I will pass it on. This was in the Scofield area in the last week.


> I'm looking for this guy. If anyone has a connection to him the DWR (and myself) have some questions for him. He was the last photo on my wireless trail camera before it was discovered stolen this morning. Plus two other cameras from the same location


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## humpyflyguy

The joy of leaving cameras on public ground, so far I've been lucky and mine haven't ever been touched but I usually pull mine out a week before the hunts start. I saw this post on fb as well, I didn't read the comments but I am wondering what the person might have done to where the dwr has some questions for him.


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## polarbear

It looks like he needed to recoup some funds after he lost all his arrows but one. 

I had a camera disappear this year as well. Nothing lower than a thief.


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## neverdrawn

polarbear said:


> It looks like he needed to recoup some funds after he lost all his arrows but one.


Maybe he's just super confident in his ability to shoot!:grin:
Anyway, I hope you can locate those cameras. I'm sure they weren't cheap.


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## Huge29

polarbear said:


> It looks like he needed to recoup some funds after he lost all his arrows but one.
> 
> I had a camera disappear this year as well. Nothing lower than a thief.


Good catch, I didnt even notice that. Apparently they have a vehicle description. three of them stolen, one in a bear box lag bolt to the tree and two with a viper cable. I kind of wonder if this is really him since they would have to be really prepared with heavy duty tools to get these off, cant do that with just one arrow.


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## Fishrmn

Huge29 said:


> I kind of wonder if this is really him since they would have to be really prepared with heavy duty tools to get these off, cant do that with just one arrow.


Maybe that's why he's down to one. Used all of the others in his quiver to shoot the locks off of the cameras.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## Finnegan

Perfect example for why I hate "game" cameras.


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## Critter

It really doesn't take much in the way of tools anymore to get through locks or cables. The battery operated cutting tools fit very easily into a backpack along with a couple of wrenches to get the lag bolts out. 

This guy might still be a possibility since they would of had to of gone into the area and seen the cameras and then came back a few days later after they had picked up the tools. 

It's too bad that people can't leave someones property alone anymore. But you do have to figure that if you are going to leave something hanging from a tree that it just may come up missing by the time you go to pick it up.


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## 2full

I think he just needs to practice more, or invest in a range finder. ;-)

If he would wear his hat the right way maybe the sun would not blind him as he shoots. :mrgreen:


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## bow_dude

I was loper hunting over the weekend. I ran into a couple of pop up blinds that had been left out. The wind had taken it's toll on them, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would leave their pop up. It only takes a couple of minutes to take them down. My experience has been the lopers really don't care if a blind shows up one morning. I have to wonder how many blinds get picked up as well as camera's.


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## Jedidiah

Seems to me that it takes a special brand of terminally stupid idiot to hack away at a cable or lag bolt out in the woods when the owner of the thing they're stealing could be out there with a rifle capable of waxing them from 300 yards. The guy probably doesn't even know people are looking for him, like that guy who shot the buck known as the Rabbi...he took the antlers to a taxidermy shop to get mounted like they wouldn't be recognized.


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## Huge29

Jedidiah said:


> Seems to me that it takes a special brand of terminally stupid idiot to hack away at a cable or lag bolt out in the woods when the owner of the thing they're stealing could be out there with a rifle capable of waxing them from 300 yards. The guy probably doesn't even know people are looking for him, like that guy who shot the buck known as the Rabbi...he took the antlers to a taxidermy shop to get mounted like they wouldn't be recognized.


Spot on, this was a wireless transmission unit that sends pics fairly quickly after being taken, very surprising that something wasnt transmitted during the commision of the crime alerting the owner located nearby.


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## humpyflyguy

I am still wondering what this guy did that the dwr have questions for him. Yes he stole the cameras and that is pretty low and he should be taught a lesson but did he do something else that is really a crime, like shoot four animals with his missing arrows and left them to waste? Maybe that's why he took the cameras thinking that would get rid of evidence.


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## Springville Shooter

Silly people steal things that silly people leave in the woods. I had one taken for the first time ever this year. Best practice is to not leave private property on public property. If you choose to play the game, then you shouldn't be too suprised when you lose out once in a while. 

I use cameras and go to extreme measures to hide them very well. I consider cameras placed in conspicuous places with lock boxes and nasty warnings to be in the same category as litter.....no one wants to see your beer cans or your trail cam taking their picture. 

I personally would never touch one, but I don't disparage those who do with much disdain......not even the mutton vaquero who took mine.-----SS


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## BigT

"yes ive taken 1 camera in my life. was it right? oh i dunno...."

No, it wasn't right... I get what your saying about camera's being placed everywhere. Maybe you could find another place to hunt. It's frustrating having things in places you intend to hunt or camp, but it is public ground and though we all sometimes think I should grab that, 99% of us don't because of a little integrity that is in us. Maybe that's just me, but I don't take things just because it's there and nobody is watching me!


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## Springville Shooter

I'm not much of a stealer, but I think it would be fun to 'relocate' on of the messenger cams to the bottom of the nearest outhouse facing upward. Here are some instant messages for you, guy who's too lazy to get out and check his cameras.:mrgreen:------SS


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## 30-06-hunter

front hunter said:


> if you leave cameras unlocked on a tree, on public ground, i dont know how anyone can expect them to be there when they get back.... i cant count how many cameras ive found this year. its ridiculous how out of control its gotten. i wish they would make them illegal on public ground. all it does is exploit animals that are smart enough to stay hidden when people are around but dont know a camera is there watching their every move. yes ive taken 1 camera in my life. was it right? oh i dunno.... i had my reasons (long story). i knew who the camera belonged to and in my opinion he had it coming. and to be fair the camera was up over 5 months, and i considered it abandoned since it was the last night of the rifle hunt and i was sure it was gonna sit there all winter. now i will check SD cards and look at them when i find them, if the camera is unlocked. but thats it. the DWR should have nothing to do with this. at all. i highly doubt theres any wildlife violations associated with this incident. its just some guy thats mad his cams are gone and the sheriffs didnt wanna deal with it. leave your cameras unlocked, expect people to mess with them. its just how it goes these days....


With that attitude I get the feeling you and karma will be meeting very soon....


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## Jedidiah

front hunter said:


> i didnt know stealing a 200 dollar camera was a crime punishable by death........


It certainly is not and I wasn't inferring that I myself would be pointing a gun at someone for trying to steal anything worth that or any other dollar amount. However, you can't be sure that everyone else thinks that way and prudence would lead me to leave other people's things alone when I'm out in the woods with multiple sight lines to my unprotected back.

What I WOULD do is confront the guy, especially if I had a firearm and he had a bow. Him and I would walk back to his vehicle and I would get his license plate number and some pictures of him and it and then he would be going to jail.

By the way, it wasn't unsecured....they cut through a lag bolt and securing cables to get the devices. It makes me sick to see people justifying theft.


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## 30-06-hunter

front hunter said:


> That's why I took the camera.... Karma. And don't be preaching on me. I've read your posts for quite sometime. You can be a piece of work, yourself.


Preaching, hardly, simply relaying the fact that when we lie/cheat/steal it usually comes back to bite us on the butt. No matter your excuse/rationale/lack of proper upbringing, you had no legitimate reason to steal someone's trail cam. And if you go back and read this thread you will notice that the cams in question were very much secured, not 'unlocked' as you failed to comprehend.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3

Stealing is stealing, period. End of story.


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## 30-06-hunter

Jedidiah said:


> It certainly is not and I wasn't inferring that I myself would be pointing a gun at someone for trying to steal anything worth that or any other dollar amount. However, you can't be sure that everyone else thinks that way and prudence would lead me to leave other people's things alone when I'm out in the woods with multiple sight lines to my unprotected back.
> 
> What I WOULD do is confront the guy, especially if I had a firearm and he had a bow. Him and I would walk back to his vehicle and I would get his license plate number and some pictures of him and it and then he would be going to jail.
> 
> By the way, it wasn't unsecured....they cut through a lag bolt and securing cables to get the devices. It makes me sick to see people justifying theft.


Im just glad that in the area I hunt I know several of the guys by name who have trail cams up there, I just wave at the cam and go on my way. They also have horses and have been known to pack out for others, so we have a mutual respect for each other even if we are 'competition' for one another.


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## johnnycake

Honest, after this year having several cameras stolen on our private land, nothing surprises me anymore.


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## 30-06-hunter

front hunter said:


> So if you are getting in to areas that people see fit for horses, while being disabled. How are qualified for being disabled? Just curious


If you are so well read on my posts 'for quite some time' then you would already know the answer. But once again we see that someone failed to educate you on proper etiquette, not even some of my closest friends would ask in such a thoughtless manner. Have yourself a wonderful day enjoying the karma you bring upon yourself. After all, we are the result of every choice we have made, good or bad....


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## Fowlmouth

Jedidiah said:


> What I WOULD do is confront the guy, especially if I had a firearm and he had a bow. Him and I would walk back to his vehicle and I would get his license plate number and some pictures of him and it and then he would be going to jail.


So you would hold the guy at gun point because he has a bow and you have a firearm? I would be upset if someone stole my stuff and I caught them, but not to the point of using a firearm or brandishing one for that matter.


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## 30-06-hunter

front hunter said:


> I'm just asking. It's not rude to ask. Most of the BS You post gets old after awhile and makes my head hurt, so I must have missed your explanation where you justify your disability. And if your "friends" can't tell what's wrong with you just from being around you, sounds like you're milking something that you could just otherwise tough out. But some aren't as strong as others. Carry on. Hope you have a good any bull hunt next week!


It is becoming apparent that you may have missed a lot of things, mainly reading and comprehension of written language. I'm usually not this attentive toward idiocy, but you just seem to be bringing out the best in people today....


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## Clarq

front hunter said:


> I'm just asking. It's not rude to ask. Most of the BS You post gets old after awhile and makes my head hurt, so I must have missed your explanation where you justify your disability. And if your "friends" can't tell what's wrong with you just from being around you, sounds like you're milking something that you could just otherwise tough out. But some aren't as strong as others. Carry on. Hope you have a good any bull hunt next week!


Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Shaun Larsen is back under a new name? Everything "front hunter" has posted today looks eerily similar...


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## Jedidiah

Fowlmouth said:


> So you would hold the guy at gun point because he has a bow and you have a firearm? I would be upset if someone stole my stuff and I caught them, but not to the point of using a firearm or brandishing one for that matter.


It's a little telling that so many people automatically think I'm saying I'd shoot the guy or hold him up. That's not what I said. It doesn't ever pay to try and confront someone who has a firearm unless you're doing it to save a life. Pointing a gun at someone just because they're stealing isn't acceptable, but if they're not armed you'd better believe we're going to have a talk about them stealing my property. That isn't to say I wouldn't blast someone to kingdom come if they tried to close ground between me and him while I was armed and he was not, making the decision to rush someone who's armed is something I consider a suicidal action and law enforcement agrees.

(Good points though Fowlmouth. I'm not disagreeing, just addressing the portion of your argument that seems to come from inferring my intent incorrectly.)


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## neverdrawn

I'm not certain who front hunter is, but to question anyone about a disability and then continue to berate them without having any idea of their circumstances is ludicrous! I know political correctness has gotten a little out of hand but without knowing the man personally it is way out of line to question his ability to hunt or even maintain life on a day to day basis. We need to support one and other and the sport we all love, not find reason to bicker and judge each other.


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## woundedjew

Jedidiah said:


> By the way, it wasn't unsecured....they cut through a lag bolt and securing cables to get the devices. It makes me sick to see people justifying theft.


Pretty sure its illegal to lag bolt items into tree's on the mountain. The forest service doesn't take too kindly to killing their trees.

I'm not into stealing cameras, but i'm not going to look down on people that do. If you have something of value, why leave it laying around hoping that everyone else will be honest, when we all know not everybody out there is honest. Its not a crime to take something you leave on the mountain (unless it was on private property). Why would you expect it to still be there, and why would you be upset when its not? I have looked at the SD card with my camera before.

Just this weekend, I was deer hunting a canyon that I have hunted for years, and also hunted the last 3 weeks. There has been a ground blind set up in the same spot since before the hunt started. This weekend, I get down in there dark and early and hunt. About 10 am some hillbilly comes strolling down the trail to his blind. He was upset I was hunting "HIS" area. Apparently his blind down there reserves the canyon for him for the season. The fact that he has a limited entry elk tag, and I only had a meager deer tag, his tag takes precedence over mine. I ruined his entire hunt because I had already hiked through the trees around his blind.


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## Airborne

neverdrawn said:


> I'm not certain who front hunter is, but to question anyone about a disability and then continue to berate them without having any idea of their circumstances is ludicrous! I know political correctness has gotten a little out of hand but without knowing the man personally it is way out of line to question his ability to hunt or even maintain life on a day to day basis. We need to support one and other and the sport we all love, not find reason to bicker and judge each other.


Now this is a fun thread!!! gun totin vigilantes, name callin, all the things that make the internet so entertaining!!

Hey Neverdrawn,

Let's say you had a brother in law who was on government disability getting a check every month because of his professed 'disability'. This brother in law also happens to brag about going boating and hiking and other outdoor activities. You see him out mowing his lawn and a hundred other physical things that he does that someone with a disability wouldn't be able to do and all the while throwing it in your face as you go off to work each day... wouldn't you think less of him? Wouldn't you question that tax payer funded advantage he had over you?

Well, 30-06 hunter is the forums brother in law. Good luck next week 30-06 hunter with your rifle any bull tag elk tag, hope you can cover all those miles and kill ya a big bull! Can't wait to read about your hunt!!


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## 30-06-hunter

Airborne said:


> Now this is a fun thread!!! gun totin vigilantes, name callin, all the things that make the internet so entertaining!!
> 
> Hey Neverdrawn,
> 
> Let's say you had a brother in law who was on government disability getting a check every month because of his professed 'disability'. This brother in law also happens to brag about going boating and hiking and other outdoor activities. You see him out mowing his lawn and a hundred other physical things that he does that someone with a disability wouldn't be able to do and all the while throwing it in your face as you go off to work each day... wouldn't you think less of him? Wouldn't you question that tax payer funded advantage he had over you?
> 
> Well, 30-06 hunter is the forums brother in law. Good luck next week 30-06 hunter with your rifle any bull tag elk tag, hope you can cover all those miles and kill ya a big bull! Can't wait to read about your hunt!!


Your assumption is laughable as I'm sitting here at my desk at work typing this, you could come by and say hi except I doubt you have the security clearance to even access the elevator.... And ASSumptions are just that, you end up looking like one in the end because you have no clue what you are talking about. Even funnier is the fact that you continue to hate on me over and over again knowing full well that you will never attain what I have done even with my disabilities.


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## 30-06-hunter

neverdrawn said:


> I'm not certain who front hunter is, but to question anyone about a disability and then continue to berate them without having any idea of their circumstances is ludicrous! I know political correctness has gotten a little out of hand but without knowing the man personally it is way out of line to question his ability to hunt or even maintain life on a day to day basis. We need to support one and other and the sport we all love, not find reason to bicker and judge each other.


If you are ever curious about my disability feel free to PM me, you seem to be one of the few who was taught to be tactful about how you approach others.


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## willfish4food

woundedjew said:


> I'm not into stealing cameras, but i'm not going to look down on people that do.


:shock:


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## Airborne

30-06-hunter said:


> Your assumption is laughable as I'm sitting here at my desk at work typing this, you could come by and say hi except I doubt you have the security clearance to even access the elevator.... And ASSumptions are just that, you end up looking like one in the end because you have no clue what you are talking about. Even funnier is the fact that you continue to hate on me over and over again knowing full well that you will never attain what I have done even with my disanilities.


My TS clearance expired after my ETS from the Army so you are right. You are also right, I will never attain whatever it is you have done even with your 'disanilities' although I don't know what that word means. You have a super hunt next week--looking forward to your write up!!!


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## willfish4food

Leaving a trail camera on the mountain may be legally considered abandoning it; I don't know. What I do know is that any rationally thinking person knows that the owner is coming back for it. Taking it under the guise that it's "abandoned" is wrong.



> If you have something of value, why leave it laying around hoping that everyone else will be honest, when we all know not everybody out there is honest. Its not a crime to take something you leave on the mountain (unless it was on private property). Why would you expect it to still be there, and why would you be upset when its not?


I hope I never get to the point in my life that I'm cynical enough to expect people to do the wrong thing. i.e. steal someone's property because it was "abandoned" in the public woods.


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## woundedjew

Is there a reason you don't leave your keys in your car at night? Is there a reason you lock up your house? If you were in the habit of not locking up your valuables, would you be that suprised if they come up missing? Anything of value to you has just as much value to someone else.

Im not saying its right to steal items , but both the theives and the victim would most likely be equally to blame. You don't taunt a pitbull with a piece of steak, and then be upset at the dog when he takes it out of your hand.

BTW, what ever happened to the good old days when you could walk around in the woods (public property) without the risk of having your picture taken 35 times. Take the guy on the picture at the beginning of this post for instance.... He may have been out for a nice stroll in the woods with his bow, doing nothing wrong, now his picture is plastered all over the internet with the assumption that he did something wrong.


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## 30-06-hunter

Airborne said:


> My TS clearance expired after my ETS from the Army so you are right. You are also right, I will never attain whatever it is you have done even with your 'disanilities' although I don't know what that word means. You have a super hunt next week--looking forward to your write up!!!


My clearance is part of why I work where I do, but sure gets boring behind a desk sometimes. And good catch, I was on my way out the door to a meeting before proofreading and hitting the submit button. I hope I do have a good hunt, thank you, if this branched bull I saw over the weekend is still there it will be good indeed.


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## utahgolf

woundedjew said:


> Take the guy on the picture at the beginning of this post for instance.... He may have been out for a nice stroll in the woods with his bow, doing nothing wrong, now his picture is plastered all over the internet with the assumption that he did something wrong.


^^^^^^
This!


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## silentstalker

Stealing is still stealing no matter how you look at it.


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## longbow

Let's hang 30-06 Hunter since we can't visually see his disability. Everyone knows he should be dragging his near-lifeless carcass across the ground with an ice spike in each hand before he can truly be considered disabled. OR NOT! Plus he shoots a bunch of nice animals each year and that right there is prima fascia evidence he's faking it.
Carry on 30-06 Hunter, you're a stud in my book.


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## GaryFish

Gentlemen, I know this is a touchy subject about the trail cam. But let's keep the discussion about that - the trail cam. The personal attacks at one another are simply not called for. Consider this a warning.

Thanks.

Carry on.


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## bowgy

If you can steal someone's camera that they left in the forest and that is ok.......wouldn't it be ok for some person that comes along and sees your truck parked in the forest, or tent or trailer to take it?


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## Springville Shooter

So I guess it boils down to this question. Who is the more culpable idiot? The guy who breaks the rule we all learned in Kindergarten and takes what is not his, or the moron who leaves an obnoxious piece of surveillance equipment in a very conspicuous place. I say they are both idiots and should slap-fight to the death. The rest of us will move along doing what is right the best we can.......hiding our trail cams and not taking others things.

I will also throw out there that I think it is pretty irresponsible to post someone's picture all over the internet without some pretty compelling evidence that they actually did something. I'd be awfully pissed if I was the guy in the pic and did nothing wrong. What does 'karma' say about that? As for the other set of rules, isn't 'bearing false witness' buddies with 'shall not steal'?? 

Alas, pots and kettles commingling.--------SS


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## martymcfly73

I agree. I guess being a wealthy landowner entitles you to post pictures of the unknowing peasants without any evidence if wrong doing. So what is he "suspected" of doing?


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## nocturnalenemy

Do we know if this was on public ground? Does someone have a link to the FB post with more details?


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## 3arabians

Springville Shooter said:


> So I guess it boils down to this question. Who is the more culpable idiot? The guy who breaks the rule we all learned in Kindergarten and takes what is not his, or the moron who leaves an obnoxious piece of surveillance equipment in a very conspicuous place. I say they are both idiots and should slap-fight to the death. The rest of us will move along doing what is right the best we can.......hiding our trail cams and not taking others things.
> 
> I will also throw out there that I think it is pretty irresponsible to post someone's picture all over the internet without some pretty compelling evidence that they actually did something. I'd be awfully pissed if I was the guy in the pic and did nothing wrong. What does 'karma' say about that? As for the other set of rules, isn't 'bearing false witness' buddies with 'shall not steal'??
> 
> Alas, pots and kettles commingling.--------SS


This thread has been the most entertaining ive read in awhile. This post by ss kinda nailed it with what ive been thinking the whole time. To me the guy looks more concerned with checking the area for sign and he appears to be struggling with why he only has one arrow left in his quiver more then if he should steal the trail camera. This picture makes it seem to me he never saw the camera. Maybe he is guilty maybe he isnt but if I was him and frustrated about losing most my arrows and then saw myself on the Internet being suspected of theft I would be super pissed!! To me the guy looks decent enough other than he apparently cant shoot or wear his hat correctly (maybe he is tracking a deer. He looks pretty focused on the ground not the camera). Everytime I set my camera; its as hidden and remote as I can find and im still almost expecting it to be gone when I retrieve it. Just the way it goes.


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## FSHCHSR

I can't believe how many here are condoning stealing others property . It is stealing no matter how you rationalize it.


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## nelsonccc

I was under the impression that if a camera was left on public property that it was considered abandoned and/or litter? That it was illegal to leave stuff on public land? 

There are a few places I go where I run into cameras occasionally and they are on public property. I think it's pretty obnoxious to leave them there. Especially when they are even more noticeable with locks, chains, etc. I've never taken one and don't think I ever would but I hate that our public lands are being clogged up with cameras and that there are pictures of me out there as I walked by them. 

If you've ever been out to the Arizone strip in the evening, you can see the flashes going off on the cameras at some water holes. Pretty absurd.


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## one4fishing

So, crazy thread so far. Here is my take. 
I occasionally use trail cams but they are only placed in areas that you'd have to be crazy to get to. Then they're hidden very well. So far I haven't lost one and I've learned whether or not to hunt those spots. 
What I do when I find some idiots camera out in the open, heavily used areas, right next to the trail. Well I pose for pictures, I'll sit down and have a sand which. I'll have a smoke. Take a piss right in front of the camera. And yes if the timing is right I'll $hi! In front of the offending camera. 
I'm not into stealing so I'll desecrate someone's spot, hopefully enough for them to learn game cams don't belong on people trails.


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## 3arabians

front hunter said:


> one4fishing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take a piss right in front of the camera. And yes if the timing is right I'll $hi! In front of the offending camera.
> I'm not into stealing so I'll desecrate someone's spot, hopefully enough for them to learn game cams don't belong on people trails.
> 
> 
> 
> so thats not dog chit ive been stepping in on the trails! guess i'll be needing a new pair of boots soon
Click to expand...

Haha! Aren't you two a pair? While I dont necessarily agree with the tactics of one4fishing I understand where your coming from. Most places I set a trail cam you are much better off to have horses to get to. Not as likely my camera gets stolen as the one who sets on the zig zag trail above Centerville.


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## woundedjew

bowgy said:


> If you can steal someone's camera that they left in the forest and that is ok.......wouldn't it be ok for some person that comes along and sees your truck parked in the forest, or tent or trailer to take it?


If your talking about the idiots that leave their trailer in a camp spot 2 or 3 weeks before a holiday weekend or the hunt starts, you bet your ass I think it's ok. The forest service should be contracting with some towing company's to pick up the trailers, and charge the owners towing and storage fees. Forest service isn't out anything and it will persuade people not to leave their stuff on the mountain.

I don't condone stealing the camera, but I know enough about the human race not to expect too much from it. I have been known to look at the pictures on the sd card to see what's in the area, delete the pictures and replace it in the camera that has now been turned off.


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## RandomElk16

This thread should be closed. What a bunch of garbage.

Seriously. Let's defend thieves, because we have never done anything as bad as leaving a trail camera up. Person had it coming. In fact, let's go potty in front of it, because we are 6 years old.

Let's bash a disability, because it isn't disabled enough for our approval. Must be a lot of doctors on this forum; who can do virtual diagnoses.

Always thought it was crazy that mice eat mice. Maybe you guys can explain that too me.


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## BigT

RandomElk16 said:


> This thread should be closed. What a bunch of garbage.
> 
> Seriously. Let's defend thieves, because we have never done anything as bad as leaving a trail camera up. Person had it coming. In fact, let's go potty in front of it, because we are 6 years old.
> 
> Let's bash a disability, because it isn't disabled enough for our approval. Must be a lot of doctors on this forum; who can do virtual diagnoses.
> 
> Always thought it was crazy that mice eat mice. Maybe you guys can explain that too me.


Agreed! And whatever happened to integrity? One of the reasons I joined this forum was the forum members seemed to be more respectable than some others out there. I hope we can get back to that!


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## willfish4food

> I was under the impression that if a camera was left on public property that it was considered abandoned and/or litter? That it was illegal to leave stuff on public land?



By the letter of the law, that might be the case; I honestly don't know. But, any reasonable person knows the owner is coming back for it. If I was really concerned with someone "cluttering up the forest" with a camouflaged box smaller than a tissue box, I'd probably report it to the forest service so they can look at me like I'm crazy for wasting their time.




> There are a few places I go where I run into cameras occasionally and they are on public property. I think it's pretty obnoxious to leave them there. Especially when they are even more noticeable with locks, chains, etc. I've never taken one and don't think I ever would but I hate that our public lands are being clogged up with cameras and that there are pictures of me out there as I walked by them.
> 
> If you've ever been out to the Arizone strip in the evening, you can see the flashes going off on the cameras at some water holes. Pretty absurd.


A serious and honest questions: why is it such a travesty to have some small camouflaged boxes strapped to trees 3-4 months out of the year?



> What I do when I find some idiots camera out in the open, heavily used areas, right next to the trail. Well I pose for pictures, I'll sit down and have a sand which. I'll have a smoke. Take a piss right in front of the camera. And yes if the timing is right I'll $hi! In front of the offending camera.
> I'm not into stealing so I'll desecrate someone's spot, hopefully enough for them to learn game cams don't belong on people trails.


So there are some people that don't like the idea of having their picture taken without consent, and then there are those who find it necessary to expose themselves to the camera. Classy...


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## bowgy

woundedjew said:


> If your talking about the idiots that leave their trailer in a camp spot 2 or 3 weeks before a holiday weekend or the hunt starts, you bet your ass I think it's ok. The forest service should be contracting with some towing company's to pick up the trailers, and charge the owners towing and storage fees. Forest service isn't out anything and it will persuade people not to leave their stuff on the mountain.
> 
> I don't condone stealing the camera, but I know enough about the human race not to expect too much from it.* I have been known to look at the pictures on the sd card to see what's in the area, delete the pictures and replace it in the camera that has now been turned off*.


So what you are saying is that theft is bad but vandalizing someone's property is ok?


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## nelsonccc

willfish4food said:


> A serious and honest questions: why is it such a travesty to have some small camouflaged boxes strapped to trees 3-4 months out of the year?


I guess its not a travesty per se to see a few boxes here and there. My main sticking point was really the experience on the strip up above the gorge on Black Rock. There's a watering hole up there and it was like the paparazzi with the flashes. No kidding there must have been 5-6 cameras from what I think was separate owners. One was mounted on a fence stake that had been driven with the sole intent of holding the camera facing the water hole.

I think when the cameras are used intelligently and off the beaten path and not 'overdone' then it's not an issue. But some of these watering holes between here (Vegas) and St George can be ridiculous. I think the camera also has the effect of 'reserving' the spot. If you show up and see cameras I think you're less likely to hunt that spot since you know someone has their eye on it. Or you want to avoid that opening morning drama of arriving at a spot that you know may already have someone there, or planning to go there. You could effectively place 10-20 cameras along a draw (like they do in unit 231 here in NV) and 'reserve' it. I've never had a confrontation about it in the field but I tend to avoid the area after finding the cameras.

I guess I also think it's a bit un-sportmans like, I think it's a slippery slope. Game cameras first, then drones, then 'reserving' a spot, etc. I guess I could be convinced to change my opinion but I generally dislike seeing the cameras on public lands.


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## bowgy

OK, I just got off the phone with a DWR officer about some issues on private land so I engaged him in a conversation about trail cams.

Here are some of the points that came from that discussion.

1- The Forest Service is *NOT* looking at game cameras at this time as abandoned property.

2- If you take someone's game camera it is theft and if caught you will be cited and prosecuted.

3- Messing with, looking at pics, deleting pics, turning off cameras, etc is illegal.

4= Property left on the Forest past their time such as tents trailers will be cited not removed at first. Anyone taking the law into their own hands is illegal.

We discussed other things that I am not at liberty to disclose at this time, however, I will say after our discussion I would advise anyone to refrain from touching anything that is not theirs.

(I didn't think to ask about tree stands, next time I talk to him I will ask him about that.)


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## Old Fudd

You put out Cams Check em once every week or so. QUESTION.. So If I'am up looking for a place to put up a tent on the Mantis. And I can't find a spot because half of Sanpete County has put trailers down, Say in June!Being on public land do I have the right to move the trailer or just haul A-- with it. SAME OL SAME OL?


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## Fowlmouth

bowgy said:


> OK, I just got off the phone with a DWR officer about some issues on private land so I engaged him in a conversation about trail cams.
> 
> Here are some of the points that came from that discussion.
> 
> 1- The Forest Service is *NOT* looking at game cameras at this time as abandoned property.
> 
> 2- If you take someone's game camera it is theft and if caught you will be cited and prosecuted.
> 
> 3- Messing with, looking at pics, deleting pics, turning off cameras, etc is illegal.
> 
> 4= Property left on the Forest past their time such as tents trailers will be cited not removed at first. Anyone taking the law into their own hands is illegal.
> 
> We discussed other things that I am not at liberty to disclose at this time, however, I will say after our discussion I would advise anyone to refrain from touching anything that is not theirs.
> 
> (I didn't think to ask about tree stands, next time I talk to him I will ask him about that.)


Here's the thing: I bet if you ask 10 different LEO's these same questions you will get several different answers.


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## Springville Shooter

That's true, not discounting what you're saying Bowgy but I asked a warden during my daughters hunter safety course and he said that trail cams on public lands were neither outlawed or protected by any statute that he could think of.--------SS


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## chuvak

Voicing my opinion before this gets locked

I personally have 2 cameras and have been using the same ones for about 5 or 6 years now. They've never been stolen, and I have them out from the end of June until the weekend before the bow hunt. Occasionally I'll put it out in the winter too, but recently I've only been using my spotting scope to watch wintering game. Over these years my cameras have only taken pictures of 2 people, and both had no idea that it was there. They have never been stolen. Also, I have never seen another trail camera where I hunt. That's not saying they're not there taking pictures of me, but I've never personally seen them. I think that if they are "littering" your hunting area, you need to find a new place to hunt. Stealing is wrong even if you don't approve of trail cameras. I also believe that ruining other people's areas and erasing their pictures is extremely unethical and cruel. You have to remember that some people don't have time to scout every weekend and taking a few hours every other week to swap cards is about all they can do to prepare for the hunts. Also, my nephews get so excited when I pull my cards. Think of the 6 year old kids that are getting into the sport and are learning poor ethics from others. 

Before anyone attacks me, I'm not saying I use cameras perfectly nor am I a perfect hunter. However, I really struggle seeing that people will actually do this to other peoples cameras. If I ever see a camera, I hope my pic gets plastered to the web because I'll be making a funny pose.


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## bowgy

Fowlmouth said:


> Here's the thing: I bet if you ask 10 different LEO's these same questions you will get several different answers.


His comments were in reference to meetings the DWR had with the National Forest.

Just like speeding, some cops may give you a warning and some a ticket.


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## bowgy

Springville Shooter said:


> That's true, not discounting what you're saying Bowgy but I asked a warden during my daughters hunter safety course and he said that trail cams on public lands were neither outlawed or protected by any statute that he could think of.--------SS


Look back at the OP, it indicates that the DWR is involved with the theft of the trail camera. This particular LEO will cite you and I guess the Judge can decide. I personally wouldn't want it to go that far, to me it is personal property.

Also it may come down to registration and tagging just like trapping.

He indicated it would be like taking someones traps from their trap line, I don't know much about trapping but I think that they leave their traps out for more than 72 hours and they are not considered abandoned property. I do know that they have to check them regular but I don't know what that would be.

The DWR has enough to do than to try and keep track of trail cameras so I hope it doesn't come down to registration and tagging.


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## 30-06-hunter

chuvak said:


> Voicing my opinion before this gets locked
> 
> I personally have 2 cameras and have been using the same ones for about 5 or 6 years now. They've never been stolen, and I have them out from the end of June until the weekend before the bow hunt. Occasionally I'll put it out in the winter too, but recently I've only been using my spotting scope to watch wintering game. Over these years my cameras have only taken pictures of 2 people, and both had no idea that it was there. They have never been stolen. Also, I have never seen another trail camera where I hunt. That's not saying they're not there taking pictures of me, but I've never personally seen them. I think that if they are "littering" your hunting area, you need to find a new place to hunt. Stealing is wrong even if you don't approve of trail cameras. I also believe that ruining other people's areas and erasing their pictures is extremely unethical and cruel. You have to remember that some people don't have time to scout every weekend and taking a few hours every other week to swap cards is about all they can do to prepare for the hunts. Also, my nephews get so excited when I pull my cards. Think of the 6 year old kids that are getting into the sport and are learning poor ethics from others.
> 
> Before anyone attacks me, I'm not saying I use cameras perfectly nor am I a perfect hunter. However, I really struggle seeing that people will actually do this to other peoples cameras. If I ever see a camera, I hope my pic gets plastered to the web because I'll be making a funny pose.


This is actually one of the better replies in this thread, very well put. Keep in mind that those who have been posting that it's okay to mess with or steal cameras likely have other issies with their integrity that extend into other aspects of their life, I fully believe karma will get them one way or another.

And top of the page for the win!


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## gmanhunter

You might be careful of the camera you mess with. It could be the forest services or DWR's cameras. I would never take a camera, but its a warning to others who may do. As far as posting the guys photo on the web in this post, that's wrong. If it were my photo, and I didn't do anything wrong, I wouldn't be happy. Until there is proof of the wrong doing, a photo should have never been posted. I hope you find your man, but next time maybe think of how you would feel if someone posted your photo and accused you of something you may have not done.


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## bowgy

gmanhunter said:


> *You might be careful of the camera you mess with. It could be the forest services or DWR's cameras*. I would never take a camera, but its a warning to others who may do. As far as posting the guys photo on the web in this post, that's wrong. If it were my photo, and I didn't do anything wrong, I wouldn't be happy. Until there is proof of the wrong doing, a photo should have never been posted. I hope you find your man, but next time maybe think of how you would feel if someone posted your photo and accused you of something you may have not done.


I agree with the bold, and what amazes me is people who admit to theft or vandalism on a public website.


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## morvlorv

bowgy said:


> I agree with the bold, and what amazes me is people who admit to theft or vandalism on a public website.


it doesnt really amaze you does it? haha


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## bowgy

morvlorv said:


> it doesnt really amaze you does it? haha


:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen: Ok you about made me spit my pepsi on the screen.


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## Fishrmn

gmanhunter said:


> I hope you find your man, but next time maybe think of how you would feel if someone posted your photo and accused you of something you may have not done.


Just reread the original post. Nobody accused him of anything. It says they would like to talk to him. No accusations. His was the last picture. He may have seen someone else committing the crime.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## wyogoob

Clarq said:


> Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Shaun Larsen is back under a new name? Everything "front hunter" has posted today looks eerily similar...


Yes, and then there's hunterchick, deer h8 me, horn hunter....others.

We used to ban his new accounts but now we just let him self-destruct.

good grief

.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3

wyogoob said:


> Yes, and then there's hunterchick, deer h8 me, horn hunter....others.
> 
> We used to ban his new accounts but now we just let him self-destruct.
> 
> good grief
> 
> .


You should see the things he posts on facebook...:shock:


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## martymcfly73

I'll bet I could get him banned in abt 5 minutes...hey shaun how's your mom?


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## lunkerjunker

Huge29 said:


> Spot on, this was a wireless transmission unit that sends pics fairly quickly after being taken, very surprising that something wasnt transmitted during the commision of the crime alerting the owner located nearby.


Does anyone else think that wireless transmission cameras are going a little too far? You don't even have to hike your lazy butt up there to check your camera, just check you're email! Personally I think this is pathetic and should probably be illegal.

If you leave stuff on public land there is always a chance that someone will take it. It's that simple. I have a camera that I put out occasionally and I realize it may not be there when I come back. I stinks to have something stolen and I would never condone it but it is a risk you always take putting cameras on public land. Or anything else for that matter.

I also agree that putting someones picture on the internet stating the DWR would like to talk to him sounds like an accusation even if it wasn't meant to be.


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## Critter

The Forest Service and BLM and state lands folks are going to have to address cameras on public land sooner or later. I personally believe that they need to be registered if the owner is going to leave them out for weeks at a time, at least that way there would be a record of who owns them. As far as wireless ones, as long as they are on private property I have no problem with them but when they place them onto public grounds then that is wrong. Montana has enacted a law against them in the last couple of years.


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## bowgy

Critter said:


> The Forest Service and BLM and state lands folks are going to have to address cameras on public land sooner or later. I personally believe that they need to be registered if the owner is going to leave them out for weeks at a time, at least that way there would be a record of who owns them. As far as wireless ones, as long as they are on private property I have no problem with them but when they place them onto public grounds then that is wrong. Montana has enacted a law against them in the last couple of years.


Why? Why? and Why?

I don't use them much, I have 2 and have used one a couple of times, but the ones I see don't bother me, I just wave as I walk by.

I know if I leave one out that it may come up missing and that's the chance I take. I leave my business card in mine and it is not locked, easy to open and look at the picks and easy to take if they are of the criminal type.


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## Critter

Then there would be a way to track them if they did come up missing or if someone finds one on private property that shouldn't be there. 

I don't mind them since where I hunt I have never seen one other than the ones that I stick out there. But if you are going to leave a camera out in the wilds wouldn't you like to be able to prove that it was yours if you find it in a pawn shop or know who took it? 

On another subject I also think that tree stands should be registered to the owner if they plan to use them on public land, and that their name and address should be labeled on the stand where it can be seen.


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## bowgy

I just have mixed feelings on the registration, I can see the good points but I don't like more government control and the DWR has enough to do without having to be bothered by tracking cameras and owners.


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## bowgy

That brings up another question. Who will administer it? DWR? Not all motion cameras may be hunters. Will it be the Department of Agriculture for the Forest and Department of Interior for the BLM? Will it be the local Sheriff Department?


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