# First rifle



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Hey guys I'm looking at buying my first rifle and had a few questions. I've narrowed it down to 270 30-06 or 308 whatever I find for the best deal. I have found a couple good deals on a browning a bolt and a ruger American. I have also thought about a Remington 700 or weatherby vanguard s2. My price range would be maximum of 600 including scope. I am tempted to pull the trigger on the a bolt but wanted some opinions on what you would do? Ps I have no problem buying used.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'd go 280 over any of those calibers. It gains you alot of different bullet types due to the popularity of 7mm bullets. If I had to buy a rifle this week, with that budget I'd go this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457518532

And one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-BUCKM...718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339a105516

Then I'd go kill alot of stuff 

*Edit: oops, I thought the gun was 499 not 599 when I first posted this. Thats over your budget. Also consider the Savage Axis rifles, I dislike bundled scopes but they might be ok. My boy's 7mm08 Axis with the above scope is really accurate for the money. He's killed 5 big game animals with it. Sadly Savage doesnt make rifles in 280.

-DallanC


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## Hoopermat (Dec 17, 2010)

Most rifles will shoot better than the guy pulling the trigger. So I would invest the most in the scope. There is nothing wrong with the .308 ammo is reasonably priced so you can afford to shoot it. What will the purpose of the rifle. What are you going to hunt. 
As per scope I love vortex. You can get a really good scope for a good price.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I purchased a Weatherby Vangard S2 last month in .25-06 and couldn't be happier with the way that it shoots. Right out of the box sub moa groups with both factory and some reloads that I threw together at 100 yards. Caliber wise you are fine with all that you mentioned. I would perhaps go with the .270 just because I don't have one. But if you plan on reloading the 06 or 308 will give you hours of pleasure with more styles and typed of bullets than you could think of. And if you want heaver bullets you should look at the 06 instead of the .308. 

Your problem is going to be staying in your budget of less than $600 with rifle and scope. My rifle cost $500 and I put a $200 scope on it that I had on another rifle for a total of $700 not counting tax and other items for it. I got the gun shop to throw in a set of rings so they didn't cost me anything.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

brendo said:


> Hey guys I'm looking at buying my first rifle and had a few questions. I've narrowed it down to 270 30-06 or 308 whatever I find for the best deal. I have found a couple good deals on a browning a bolt and a ruger American. I have also thought about a Remington 700 or weatherby vanguard s2. My price range would be maximum of 600 including scope. I am tempted to pull the trigger on the a bolt but wanted some opinions on what you would do? Ps I have no problem buying used.


You'll be happy with any of those choices. Pick the one that appeals to you the most (for whatever reason, be it $$ or you just like it's looks).


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Sorry forgot to mention this will be a hunting rifle. Accuracy is important but mainly I want a good value that will last a long time and I won't have many issues with. I understand the importance of good optics I spent a lot of money on my spotting scope! I guess I should have just titled it if you had 600 dollars to spend what rifle would you buy? I have been mainly looking used since I can get a bit more for my money.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Here's a nice one.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearms/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action-Centerfire-Rifles%7C/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105523380/Savage174-Arms-11111-Trophy-Hunter-XP-Bolt-Action-Rifle-and-Nikon-Scope-Packages/1338908.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbolt-action-centerfire-rifles%2Fsavage-arms%2F_%2FN-1114860%2B1000004563%2FNe-1000004563%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_l%3DUnknown%253Bcat105522480%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat105522480%3Bcat105523380
With a $75 mail-in rebate you're at $444, the Nikon scope on these is pretty decent.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

For a budget rifle Ruger American and put a vortex Diamondback scope on it. I have that combo for my 22-250 and it shoots .5" groups all day long. I think I was about $550 all said and done. I'd choose wood over composite anyday but that isn't possible for under $500 these days. Amazing quality for the money.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

nickpan said:


> For a budget rifle Ruger American and put a vortex Diamondback scope on it. I have that combo for my 22-250 and it shoots .5" groups all day long. I think I was about $550 all said and done. I'd choose wood over composite anyday but that isn't possible for under $500 these days. Amazing quality for the money.


I have thought long and hard on the ruger American but deals keep on popping up on Utah gun exchange that make me hold off. I like synthetic for hunting myself!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Cooky said:


> Here's a nice one.
> http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...e=GNU&WTz_l=Unknown;cat105522480;cat105523380
> With a $75 mail-in rebate you're at $444, the Nikon scope on these is pretty decent.


Thanks!! I'll have to do a little research on that one My brother has a savage and it seems to be a decent gun! Have you had any experience with the browning A Bolt?


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Critter said:


> I purchased a Weatherby Vangard S2 last month in .25-06 and couldn't be happier with the way that it shoots. Right out of the box sub moa groups


If I could find a used one of these for a decent price I would be all over it! I have heard nothing but good things about them.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

What will you be hunting?

If you're gonna use it here in Utah, I'd suggest the .270. It will do what you want, has a mild recoil, and because it sounds like money is an issue you'll find lots of ammo at reasonable prices. I have 2 Model 700's in .270 and a Savage Axis in .243 all are great shooters!

You might find a used 700 with a scope at a pawn shop but not new for less than $600 I don't think. You can get an Axis with a Bushnell 3-9 for around $400 at times brand new. The scope will need to be upgraded at some point but its fine to blast stuff with until then.

I don't know what type of hunting you do, how much weight you can comfortably pack around all day, or how much recoil you can take without flinching but those are things to consider.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

This will likely be my only rifle for a while so I want something that's good at lots of things. I mainly archery and ML hunt but I am doing dedicated hunter and a cow elk hunt next year. I've done a bit of research and talked to a few people and these are the calibers I have decided on I've shot all of them but a 308. I'm confident with my decision on these calibers and they fit my needs and are all very common. I'm not quite as confident in my choice of rifle since I do not have a lot of experience with what to look for so I just needed a little direction that way. I have been communicating with a guy on a used browning a bolt that I will most likely buy cause it seems like a good deal and comes with a good scope. Yay or nay on the Abolts?


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

brendo said:


> Thanks!! I'll have to do a little research on that one My brother has a savage and it seems to be a decent gun! Have you had any experience with the browning A Bolt?


 I suspect in the price range you're talking it's the A Bolt III (AB3) you're looking at. It's a different animal than the old A Bolt. When looking at reviews make sure it the same gun. The AB3 has some neat features, short bolt throw, excellent trigger and you can open the bolt while it's on safe with a button like the X Bolt. 
The scope bases aren't the same as a regular A Bolt either, the first one I scoped had me confused for a minute.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I just bought the X-Bolt but haven't shot it yet...

If Kine bought one though it must be good! Just kidding, I just wanted something different in the gun safe. My only experiences with Brownings are my Citori shotgun and the kids' .22.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

How about get the savage axis with scope for 400. It will kill stuff as is for as long as you own it. Then when you get the money take off the barrel and add a custome barrel for a few hundred. Then add a stock for a few hundred. Then up grade the scope. Everything you do when you get the money will make it more accurate. In the end you could have a custome gun shooting dime size groups for 1500 and it will no longer look like an ugly savage


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Critter said:


> I purchased a Weatherby Vangard S2 last month in .25-06 and couldn't be happier with the way that it shoots. Right out of the box sub moa groups with both factory and some reloads that I threw together at 100 yards. Caliber wise you are fine with all that you mentioned. I would perhaps go with the .270 just because I don't have one. But if you plan on reloading the 06 or 308 will give you hours of pleasure with more styles and typed of bullets than you could think of. And if you want heaver bullets you should look at the 06 instead of the .308.
> 
> Your problem is going to be staying in your budget of less than $600 with rifle and scope. My rifle cost $500 and I put a $200 scope on it that I had on another rifle for a total of $700 not counting tax and other items for it. I got the gun shop to throw in a set of rings so they didn't cost me anything.


Ding, ding, ding! Good call Critter. Lisa and I have a few Vanguards. All shoot well. All were cheap (relativity) and all of them are well-made (for the price).
But...Savage...check them out.


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## polarbear (Aug 1, 2011)

Get the Savage Axis II at Cabelas right now for $429. With the $50 mail in rebate, that brings you down to $379. Then there is the "spend this much, get $20 off" coupon I keep getting in the mail. Then you're at $359. Then sell that weaver scope that comes with it on KSL for $75... you're at $284. Then get you a Nikon Buckmaster 4-12 BDC on sale for $150 and you've still got $66 left for a bipod, sling, or some ammo or something. Done!

Come to think of it, I might have actually got the "spend $400, get $80 off" coupon as well. That's a whole different ball game.

PS They always skimp on the scope rings with those package deals in order to meet their price point. There are some you wouldn't want to put on a .22. You'll need to buy a good set of rings for sure.


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## polarbear (Aug 1, 2011)

I just saw the Savage Trophy Hunter for $519 already with a Nikon scope. Add the $75 rebate for that gun and whatever coupons you can find. That gun might be the better deal. More caliber selection too.


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## Kevinitis (Jul 18, 2013)

I shoot an A-bolt II and like mine.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

polarbear said:


> I just saw the Savage Trophy Hunter for $519 already with a Nikon scope. Add the $75 rebate for that gun and whatever coupons you can find. That gun might be the better deal. More caliber selection too.


We have a winner.

-DallanC


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I am with Cooky on the Savage model 11, pick a caliber. The American and the Axis are very entry level very cheaply made, but certainly have their fans. I would take the 308 as ammo is very plentiful and the bolt face is very compatible if you were to rebarrel to a different caliber down the road. $444 for a rifle with an accutrigger and Nikon scope is a very good deal. The Abolt is kind of the sexier higher maintenance woman whereas the Savage is less hot, better in the sack, but much better cook girlfriend. In the long run I think you would like the Savage better. That Nikon scope is the best that you can get in a combo, not great, but much better than the normal trash in a combo. 
Polarbear had mentioned the coupons, they wont let you use those towards firearms, but they are doing somehting like $25 off with coupon for Cabelas club members, if you arent one yet, let me refer you. Best of luck. I am not familiar with the Vanguard,but have heard many good things from a few people.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

The Trophy hunter is a great deal. I have a friend that just purchased the combo in .243. I would consider selling the scope and getting either the buckmaster(you can find great deals) or the diamondback. 

The scope that comes with it looks to be made for a package, and under the prostaff line. Still better than the old no name, or tascos that came with em!

Regardless, change the scope rings!!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks for the input you guys have been very helpful!! After reading up on the savage I am going to go that route! I will sell the scope and get a different one at some point. To bad they don't sell just the gun so I could just put the extra money towards a good scope!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

brendo said:


> Thanks for the input you guys have been very helpful!! After reading up on the savage I am going to go that route! I will sell the scope and get a different one at some point. To bad they don't sell just the gun so I could just put the extra money towards a good scope!


Could get the 16/116. It comes with a Weaver. Not sure the quality though.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Just buy an 30-06 or .308. Don't listen to these guys about getting some little pea shooter that is truly too small for elk hunting. Look back at the polls on here or other hunting locations about "if you could only buy one gun" and you will see that OVERWHELMINGLY the 30-06 or .308 are the hands down favorites.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

RandomElk16 said:


> Could get the 16/116. It comes with a Weaver. Not sure the quality though.


I am a sucker for the stainless! But that does put it a bit out of my price range. Bp I was leaning towards the calibers you mentioned.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I have the 11/111 in 7mm, I LOVE the rifle! It is a sweet shooter. When I purchased mine at Cabelas it came with a Pine Ridge 3-9X40 which served me well for a few years, I've replaced it with a Vortex now. I would seriously consider it over the Axis. The scope will work for forever, or for a few years until you can save up to get a nicer scope put on it. My nephew bought the Ruger American, it is a pretty good little rifle. I bought my wife a Mossberg youth ATR in .308 a few years ago so she could hunt elk on the few occasions she actually does go elk hunting, she prefers her .223 for deer. The Mossberg actually shoots really well, but it is a "budget" rifle and has some characteristics I don't like, in particular the bolt does not lock when in safe. The Savage has been awesome! I would buy a dozen more of them if I could.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

BPturkeys said:


> Just buy an 30-06 or .308. Don't listen to these guys about getting some little pea shooter that is truly too small for elk hunting. Look back at the polls on here or other hunting locations about "if you could only buy one gun" and you will see that OVERWHELMINGLY the 30-06 or .308 are the hands down favorites.


I honestly hope you are not serious!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

brendo said:


> I am a sucker for the stainless! But that does put it a bit out of my price range. Bp I was leaning towards the calibers you mentioned.


You can find it for $600. I wouldn't get either of those because of ballistic superiority, they both lose to the "pee shooters" mentioned. I personally dislike the .308, unless like huge said and you planned on rebarreling, which most people never get around to. Or you really care about short action. Your largest benefit to the .06 over most elk calibers is the HUGE selection of factory ammo, and the ammo is alot cheaper than magnums. You can get Nosler Trophy Grade for $30 a box, half the price it runs for the big guys!


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

I have recently been talking with a coworker and he is a huge fan of the 7mm rem mag and have been considering it. what's your thought on that random?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The 7mm Rem Mag is a fine round and will take any animal in Utah with ease and I have used one for years. I have taken deer and elk out to 700 yards with one You will be a little bit restricted on bullet choice in factory rounds and even in hand loading. There isn't as many choices as the .30 caliber has, but if you like it don't let that be a sale stopper.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

brendo said:


> I have recently been talking with a coworker and he is a huge fan of the 7mm rem mag and have been considering it. what's your thought on that random?


My caliber* of choice


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I think the 7 RM makes a heck of a do all rifle. I've got one and it's quickly become one of my favorite cartridges. You can shoot the 140s for deer and step up to the 160-175s for elk if needed.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

If your choices are .270, .30-06, and .308, all are good. However, if you plan on only buying one gun then your better choices probably would be .30-06 or .308 because there is a wider choice of loads available. In factory loads there's not a lot of difference between .30-06 or .308. (There are good historical reasons for that similarity. It is related to the military history of those rounds.) The .30-06 is slightly hotter, especially for the heavier bullets, but the difference is almost not worth mentioning.

The .308 has slightly less recoil, which is a good thing, and is also available in short action rifles, which is sometimes a good thing.

In my opinion for a first gun I would probably rank them .308, .30-06, .270, top to bottom, mainly because the .308 is available in short action rifles, but there's really not a lot of difference between them. Other people will likely rank them differently, and that's fine too.

By the way, if you plan to hand load then I might put the .30-06 at the head of the list, and if you plan to emphasize long range shooting then maybe the .270 would top the list.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks mass! It doesn't show that cabela's has the 111 in 7mm only the 116 does any one know if they can order it?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

brendo said:


> Thanks mass! It doesn't show that cabela's has the 111 in 7mm only the 116 does any one know if they can order it?


Walmart has em for a heck of a deal. If you live by one of the gun carrying stores call and check there as well. Cabelas should be able to order anything but I have no clue to be honest.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned on the 308 vrs the 30-06 is that with the 06 your bullet choices will run from 110 grain up to over 220 grains and will shoot just about all of them equally well. The 308 will top out at 180 grains from my experience.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I, personally, don't think you can go wrong with the 7mm, I've killed deer and elk with mine, watched my brother kill antelope, a friend kill moose, and on and on. They are flat shooters, good for longer ranges. I just put a muzzlebrake on mine and it is sweet to shoot. I'm pretty sure you can order the 111 in if you go to Cabela's and ask, although I think Randomelk might have you on a better track if you go to Walmart and order it in, they generally give you a little better deal than Cabela's does, if they have it in their book. It's atleast worth a check. The 7mm is a good all around weapon in my opinion, you can kill anything you can draw in Utah with it. If not the 7mm I would go with 30.06 for the universal use, like was mentioned there is a HUGE array of rounds for the 30.06 and it has proven itself several million times over the years.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

My first rifle was a 308 savage model 99 and I loved it. That was 25 years ago though. Not sure how big you are but I shoot a 300 win mag these days and i love the hell out of it. Ammo is pricey however.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Haha we are headed down the slippery slope now, as recommendations continue to fall outside his original parameters. 270 is cool, 280 is better... 7mmRemMag beats that, if you are going to go that far might as well consider its big brother: 7STW, which I shoot. Talk about a fun caliber, had some 140grn loads cooking over 3650fps. Of course then people will chime in with 7Ultra's ... 270WSM etc etc.

The problem with the bigger calibers is they are not "sit at the range and shoot a few boxes for practice" type guns like the smaller calibers. You can sit and shoot a .243 all day if you mind barrel temps... 7STW it itches the back of your mind "well the barrel is only supposed to be good for xxxx shots, how many do I have left". The more you shoot the better a shot will be, and the more effective hunter.

Don't get a caliber you are only going to shoot minimally through the year.


-DallanC


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

Out of the original choices, I'd go with a 30-06. It will definitely fill your needs as an all around rifle.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

waspocrew said:


> Out of the original choices, I'd go with a 30-06. It will definitely fill your needs as an all around rifle.


yep

.308 second choice

uh...do they still make .270s?

.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Just wanted to say thanks for the push in the right direction! I ended up getting the savage 111 in 30-06. I ended up getting it from sportsmans in Provo they had them about 20 bucks cheaper plus the rebate it seems like I always go back to these guys and they always treat me good. cabelas did not have a single caliber in stock and Said it might be a bit after Christmas till they could get it. I ended buying some weaver mounts and they installed them and bore sighted it for free. As much as people complain about the looks on the savage I don't mind it! although I do plan to customize it a bit by painting the stock maybe a slate grey with black webbing. have any of you guys done this? I will post a pic for an example. Plus as I'm typing this UPS dropped off my kuiu pants that I ordered. today rocks!!


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## polarbear (Aug 1, 2011)

Congrats! That's awesome. My wife won't let me buy a new gun OR Kuiu pants, so I'm living vicariously through you.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Great choice! There is a reason the 30-06 is the most popular hunting cartridge ever made. You'll love the new rifle.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You will do well with that rifle and cartridge combination. I started my big game hunting with a old Savage in 30-06 and took a lot of game animals with it.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

An -06 is like an a-hole....everyone has one!

Just kidding, you'll enjoy many a good hunt with that rifle and that caliber. Good choice.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Happy for ypu Brendo! Congrats


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think you will like that one.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Congratulations. A 30-06 is like a flat blade screwdriver, all around useful and you can use it for all kinds of stuff.

-DallanC


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## Dodge360 (Nov 2, 2014)

brendo said:


> Hey guys I'm looking at buying my first rifle and had a few questions. I've narrowed it down to 270 30-06 or 308 whatever I find for the best deal. I have found a couple good deals on a browning a bolt and a ruger American. I have also thought about a Remington 700 or weatherby vanguard s2. My price range would be maximum of 600 including scope. I am tempted to pull the trigger on the a bolt but wanted some opinions on what you would do? Ps I have no problem buying used.


Weatherby Vanguard $399 special! Pair it with a nikon monarch BDC scope and I can shoot deer and elk out to 700 yards! I have the 300 short mag version


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## Dodge360 (Nov 2, 2014)

Sounds like I'm a little too late!


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