# WWII Surplus 4831



## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

Recenty had a fairly large quantity of WWII surplus 4831 given to me. Is there anything I need to be aware of when loading this powder in comparison to the 4831 listed in todays manuals?
I was figuring I'd treat it just like todays 4831 and work up a load accordingly for the .30-06.


----------



## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

It is NOT the same powder as todays IMR or H4831. The two of which are not interchangeable either. Do you have a chronograph? If not, I would get one, along with some reloading manuals from the 50's, 60's or early 70's when the surplus powder was still commercially available. Then I would keep my loads about 5-10% BELOW listed maximums. There was a lot of guess work being published back in the day. Even with a chronograph I would stay below the maximums listed in the old manuals. They were an adventurous lot back in the day, and didn't have the accurate pressure testing equipment that the ballisticians do today.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

It is not the same as modern 4831, but if it has been stored correctly it will be fine. With a little effort, you should be able to work up loads and get good use out of this powder.------SS


----------



## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I personally would us it as a fertilizer in the flower garden. If you use it to reload with you may get some interesting results. 

Powder isn't that hard to come by right now depending on where you are located.


----------



## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

What Loke said...if you chose to disregard what Critter advises.


----------



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

so I have a question, I have a bunch of IMR 4831, and my grandpa has a keg of H4831 that I can get my hands on. how would these two loads compare side by side same grain in load and bullet. I prefer the IMR 4831, but my grandpa has like 50 lbs of H3831, would I see a difference? I havent loaded the H4831 but on the number scale 1-100 (fastest to slowest) the IMR 4831 burns at like 93 and H4831 burns at 96. anyone have any opinions?


----------



## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

H4831 and IMR4831 are NOT the same powder. The burn rate chart is an approximation, not an absolute scale. Different powders burn at differing rates depending on the pressures generated and can change position on the scale depending on the cartridge that they may be loaded in. They are similar in burning rate, but each has its own data. They are suitable for the same cartridges, but will have different data and results.


----------



## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

What Loke said....with the addition that powder also varies a little by lot. So last years 4350 might not be exactly like this years 4350. You know you are almost nuts when you start buying and labeling components by lot..........dead nuts that is.---------SS


----------



## lifes short (Sep 11, 2013)

I think derek and goosefreaks grandpa should let me help them dispose of it properly(down the barrel of a 06). Being the nice guy I am I will come pick it up. I am down to my last 3 pounds of war surplus 4831 that was purchased for 10 cents per pound back in the 50s by my buddies father. You have to know what you are doing to work up a load because every lot of military powder has a different burn rate but you can do it. Even the modern military powders have to be worked up properly but if you are willing to do learn how and do it properly it is very reasonable shooting. 

The powder you buy for reloading from the stores is blended so the burn rate is close from lot to lot. Using IMR 4831 for an example when a new batch is manufactured it may be faster burnung than what the specs are, so they blend it with a slower batch to get the right burn rate to match the published manuals. This is why Springville Shooter is right on on lot to lot differences in canister powder. It is still in spec but will vary a little.

The military powder would be tested for burn rate and loaded as manufactured so one lot may be slower burning then the next lot by quite a bit. That is why you cannot trust those powders for burn rate and need to start low and work up. But more importantly is that bag or plastic jug labeled 4831 really 4831.


----------



## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> What Loke said....with the addition that powder also varies a little by lot. So last years 4350 might not be exactly like this years 4350. You know you are almost nuts when you start buying and labeling components by lot..........dead nuts that is.---------SS


Oh lord I found that out the hard way when making PointBlank, people continually hounded me to add Lot# fields for their data. Silly 'Nuts over there 

-DallanC


----------



## derekp1999 (Nov 17, 2011)

DallanC said:


> Oh lord I found that out the hard way when making PointBlank.


Hey, Dallan, I've loved using PointBlank on my PC... any chance of a mobile version?


----------

