# Fish Treatment Comments



## Christopher30 (Nov 9, 2007)

Sometimes i wonder if people go a little overboard with the whole fish killing/fish abuse stuff on this forum. I'm not making any specific references (yet) but, it seems like every report or general post that goes on for a long time, has at least one of these comments about being nicer to the fish, or trying to guilt someone about keeping fish even. Loving fishing is one thing, but i think when you start talking about mistreating fish, you've lost your grasp on reality. I'm not saying catch and release is bad, but trying to tell somebody that they're doing it wrong, or that treble hooks will kill the fish is just dumb. Try to remember the victim in these situations is a fish, not a person or a family pet, a fish. I guess i value the joy and happiness of human beings more than the well being of an 18 inch fish, which probably costs the DWR about 25 cents to manage. The fish are there for us (taxpaying law abiders), and everyone should get to enjoy it. Every time i read someones good informative post or a fishing report, Somebody has to be the defender of fish truths and freedoms and makes a smartass comment about something the poster or anyone else does wrong. If you need to feel like you're bettering someone, take your kids fishing and harp on them. I love posting reports to help people catch fish, but when my report or somebody elses report gets raped by somebody who probably sits on a computer all day and night and maybe catches like 10 planters a year, it really sours me. Let's just give and take what info we can get here, and not berate others for their fishing methods.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Getting raped on a report probably isn't good PR but your opinion on fish is just that --- an opinion . Personally I just think anyone who basically does anything should educate themselves about that endeavor. That's just my opinion though and nothing more.


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## orvis1 (Sep 7, 2007)

Wow, don't hold back please tell us how you really feal. It is a personal decision if you hook em and cook em or love em and leave em. If you want to catch fish to keep fine, there are plenty of put and take locations designed just for that just don't waste the wildlife. If you chose to practice CPR just be careful on how you handle the fish. Some guys to go overboard with criticism but that is how you can learn to be better. I know only one person that is perfect and he has holes in his hands IMHO.


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## chuckmiester (Sep 9, 2007)

if people choose to keep fish within the legal limits, i dont think they should get any flack for it. it really upsets me when people give others a hard time about fish being kept. if you choose to release fish, good for you. on the flip side if you do release fish just try to be as nice to the fish as possible. i dont mind it when people tell others how they can improve their releasing skills, but i dont like it when people start griping about little things. IMO fish are hardier than we give them credit for. that being said it does pain me to see abuse fish and let them go, but i dont personally see how a minor inconvenience to the fish will hurt it. after all they were hooked.


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## schaueelab (Dec 30, 2007)

It's ok its just a fish!!! Just do what you do and enjoy doin it!!


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

I agree. I also get annoyed at the post-raping that often goes on. Every now and then I choose to go vigilante on these post-rapers. 

Orvis, I do not have holes in my hands. 8)


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Some people are happy with a planted rainbow on a stringer and others want to see the protection of wild, reproducing, native trout. Usually the two mindsets do not agree because they see the environment in different ways. One sees it as man -vs- nature and the other sees it as man in nature. As stewards of the planet we should be about protecting and preserving wild places and wild things. Don't get after me for wanting to protect such places and the animals and fish that inhabit them. It goes both ways. You can complain about me and I can complain about you.

I for one, want some places set aside for protecting species in their rightful habitat. If you are satisfied with catching a hatchery raised rainbow in an urban pond, go for it, but don't tell me I cannot protect and preserve what I enjoy.


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> Some people are happy with a planted rainbow on a stringer and others want to see the protection of wild, reproducing, native trout. Usually the two mindsets do not agree because they see the environment in different ways. One sees it as man -vs- nature and the other sees it as man in nature. As stewards of the planet we should be about protecting and preserving wild places and wild things. Don't get after me for wanting to protect such places and the animals and fish that inhabit them. It goes both ways. You can complain about me and I can complain about you.
> 
> I for one, want some places set aside for protecting species in their rightful habitat. If you are satisfied with catching a hatchery raised rainbow in an urban pond, go for it, but don't tell me I cannot protect and preserve what I enjoy.


So if a wolf eats another animal, is it cause it views its life as wolf vs. nature, or is that a wolf in nature. I do not see the validity of the point you are trying to make.


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## hardwaterjake (Jan 19, 2008)

I view it as follow the laws. If it is catching and releasing the fish harmlessly, than so be it! If it is taking your legal limit of fish on a certain day, taking them home and enjoying the taste of the fish, so be it! Enjoy, and be tasteful of both situations!


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

You don't want a wolf to eat all your deer and all your elk. I don't want some hilljack eating all the trout.

A wolf doesn't have the brain to stop killing and eating itself out of home. When it does, it has to move on. Man has the ability to help control situations. If he finds that the fishing pressure is depleting the resource, then he can use his brain (atleast some can) in managing and controlling the situation.

The hilljack mentality of I'll kill, eat, wipe out and BBQ anything I want at anytime has to have some compromising. That's all I'm saying. Be wise!


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

I think some of the comments arise not because anyone has a problem with keeping fish and enjoying them for food. Rather, fish limits are usually established based on a variety of data about the body of water, how many anglers fish there, the populations of local fish, and various management objectives. The concept of a limit simply identifies how many fish can or should be removed from the habitat.

Well, hooking mortality is remarkably high using certain types of fishing methods, or under various conditions (like hot summer periods when very little oxygen is available in surface layers). So if it's determined that a limit of 4 trout is ideal for a certain area, and someone goes and "catches and releases" 30 fish at an 80% mortality rate, they have just killed 24 fish instead of their allotted 4.

That's why I agree with Packfish's remarks. If you are going to C&R, educate yourself on how and when to release a fish such that it survives. Otherwise, catch your limit and stop fishing.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Kill all the brown trout you want especially on the Provo River. Too many. Too many novice fishermen can't catch brown trout, they target the easy cutts and planted rainbows, thus the browns just keep on keepin' on. Take a legal limit off of the lower and middle Provo. Eat them up! BBQ em all day long. Of course, the guides won't be happy with all of you over slinging' hardware.


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## rapalahunter (Oct 13, 2007)

make sure you stomp through the reds in the fall as well. I keep hearing "overpopulation...stunted fish..." Kill the babies while they sleep. That'll help eh?


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## bdmillertime (Jan 7, 2008)

I used to always think that I was going to get one of those "calvin peeing" stickers and put it over the top of a love em and leave em sticker. Now my perception has changed. I see both sides points. I fish and fish often. Sometimes it flyfishing, sometimes its bait fishing, and right now its mostly ice fishing. There needs to be a happy medium. Ya if everyone took their limit everytime that they went we would have a problem. If everyone caught and released we would have have another problem on our hands. I take fish hook em and cook em, and I love em and leave em. There are always going to be extreme DIP SH.....TS on both side of the issue. Ya it would be stupid to catch a fish drop kick it a few times and then throw it back. But I don't think anyone on here is going to do anything that is going to purposely hurt a fish. Lets just all get along for hells sake. After all we all have something in common. We all love to fish.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> Of course, the guides won't be happy with all of you over slinging' hardware.


Speaking of which, I was reminded why I don't fish there anymore. I was the only one I saw slinging hardware and was covered up by a hatch of bugchuckers within a couple hours..... the actions of a few of them sure brought back the bitter taste I left the river with during the few years I fished that section. :? My buddy who has ground on the Provo below Deer Creek dam also told me some stories of complete ignorance on the part of the flyguys that fish up his way. Ridiculous.... It matters not whether you release your fish or fish for sustenance... somebody will have an issue with what you do. Just blow everyone off, do what works for you and who cares what other folks have to say. Did you follow your personal ethics?? Great... Were you within the limits of the law? Great....Did you have a good time catching the fish before you decided its fate? Great.... thats what its all about. Have a good time, do what you do and as long as you're cool with the end result, then we could all say what we think you shoulda, coulda, woulda done and it won't make any difference after the fact. 8)


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

threshershark said:


> I think some of the comments arise not because anyone has a problem with keeping fish and enjoying them for food. Rather, fish limits are usually established based on a variety of data about the body of water, how many anglers fish there, the populations of local fish, and various management objectives. The concept of a limit simply identifies how many fish can or should be removed from the habitat.
> 
> Well, hooking mortality is remarkably high using certain types of fishing methods, or under various conditions (like hot summer periods when very little oxygen is available in surface layers). So if it's determined that a limit of 4 trout is ideal for a certain area, and someone goes and "catches and releases" 30 fish at an 80% mortality rate, they have just killed 24 fish instead of their allotted 4.
> 
> That's why I agree with Packfish's remarks. If you are going to C&R, educate yourself on how and when to release a fish such that it survives. Otherwise, catch your limit and stop fishing.


 I think that you have the stats backwords.
If you catch 30 fish and release all of them only 4 or less may die.
I manage a community pond and even fish that have been deep hooked with power bait on a treble hook survive if the angler simple cuts the line and doesn't try to recover the hook.
I know this because I see how many fish die in our pond.
The worst thing that I see, is when someone handles a trout with a DRY towell or rag. This IS a death sentence to the trout.
Handling a trout with dry hands or a dry towell will remove the protective slime that is covering the trout.
These fish will develope sores from bacteria where the slime was removed, and eventually die. 
These are the fish that I see dead in the pond, or the fish that had the hook pulled out with the insides of the fish still hanging on to the hook.
Properly released trout will live and even have the chance to become large fish!
I do agree with the DWR where they suggest harvesting fish on identified waters.
Some places do need to have some of the fish removed.
Anglers are the cheepest way to do this.


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## threshershark (Sep 7, 2007)

> I think that you have the stats backwords. If you catch 30 fish and release all of them only 4 or less may die.


GrandpaD, I have no doubt about your observations. I've read around 20 studies over the years regarding hooking mortality and the results are widely varied. I have seen percentages ranging from less than 1% to over 75%. So much depends on the specific habitat, oxygen levels, fishing methods, etc. that all influence the fish's ability to recover. Fly fishing with barbless hooks can have very high mortality rates during hot weather when oxygen levels are low. Injury does not kill these fish, they just can't recover well from the stress. By that same token, damage to the mucus layer from nylon nets, towels, and such things like you mention are all factors. Injuries from deep hooking using bait likewise decreases survival rates.

All I'm saying is that the point of releasing a fish is so it will live. Releasing a fish that has been abused or badly injured is no different than shooting a duck and stomping it into the mud so it won't count against your limit. I keep fish to eat, and I also release them so I'm not on either side of the debate other than to say if you plan to release a fish it's your responsibility to understand how to give it the best possible chance at recovering.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Threshershark, I agree with you.


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## ifishutah (Dec 20, 2007)

Different species can be treated VERY differently. Bass and Walleye can handle alot more "abuse" than trout. So release bass and let the trout get eaten by the bass!


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## Improv (Sep 8, 2007)

The only time catch and release and improper fish handling technique is even an issues is when the law requires the angler to release the fish. I have gone through the past threads on this site and I have not found a post where someone was within his legal right to keep a fish that someone told him/her that they should have let it go. Your comment *"I'm not saying catch and release is bad, but trying to tell somebody that they're doing it wrong, or that treble hooks will kill the fish is just dumb." * I'll agree with that statement if the intent of the angler is to keep his catch. However, many of our fisheries requires that thy let their catch go. In those situations I think it's very important that the public is educated on the right way to do it. Apparently the DWR feels the same way and here is what they had to say about the subject.



> _*·	Bait caught fish typically suffer a much higher hooking mortality than fish caught on flies and lures. At least one out of three fish caught with bait will die after release. Over 60 percent of deep hooked fish die. Cutting the line on deep hooked fish and not trying to remove the hook increases survival significantly. The major cause of hooking mortality is hooking injury itself. Most fish that are bleeding from being hooked will not survive.
> ·	Generally, nine out of 10 fish caught on flies or lures will survive after release. Studies have shown that there is only a one or two percent difference in the survival of fish caught on flies compared to those caught on lures.
> ·	When fishing deep water (deeper than 30 feet) most fish caught cannot be released with any assurance that they will survive. Bringing fish up quickly causes blood chemistry changes as well as an expansion of the air bladder to many times it's normal size, often causing it to protrude out of the fish's mouth. Keeping the fish in the water and quickly releasing it so it can get back down to deeper water helps some. Puncturing the swim bladder with a needle ("fizzing") does not improve survival. Some fish like lake trout can burp off the gases from the swim bladder when pulled up slowly. Most fish do not have this capability.
> ·	Fish that are already stressed by warm water temperatures or low dissolved oxygen conditions cannot handle the added stress of being caught and most likely will not survive after being released. Some of Utah's low to mid elevation reservoirs get warm during the summer. Some trout waters will have surface temperatures of 70-75° F. If you are catching fish in August when water temperatures are already marginal, don't plan on catching and releasing a lot of fish. Most released fish are probably not going to live to be caught another day.
> ...


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## chuckmiester (Sep 9, 2007)

improv earlier this year i got a lot of flack for keeping a brook trout out of duck creek pond. although this does not happen very often (i have only seen one to two other times) they leave a very bitter taste and people remember them. i totally agree if people inted to keep fish than treat them however you want, but if you are going to release them make sure you do it so they will live after you release them, then you can catch them again  what really gets me though is when people get a lot of crap for releasing a fish when the fish will probably survive after it was released. the fisherman was careful but made a slight mistake (not fatally wounding the fish) and people freak out about it. fish are hardier than we give them credit for being, but if we are going to release them we should care for them. fishing is a blood sport. sometimes the fish will die and as long as we are as careful as we can be than that is all we can do. i think we all need to be in the middle on this issue. after all being an extremist in anything is not that productive.


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## Improv (Sep 8, 2007)

I’ll completely agree. If the intent of the fisherman was correct, then there should be no reason to criticize or berate someone for doing the best they could. 
I too will keep fish on occasion. However, I will try to be respectful of our resources and respectful of the many people that don’t keep fish. I’m not about to dangle a stringer of trout over my shoulder while fishing the Green, just because I can. I don’t need to go out of my way to may make someone else uncomfortable. I think the key factor is to be respectful of each other and understand that we all have different moral/ethical reasons for doing what we do and it is not our place to judge as long as the choices we make are legal and they do not impose on someone else’s happiness.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

But what about the hunter or fisherman who wants to show off their catch? Why can't they strut around with a stringer full of fish or drive up and down State Street with a bull elk or 5 point muley stapped on the vehicle for all to see?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> But what about the hunter or fisherman who wants to show off their catch? Why can't they strut around with a stringer full of fish or drive up and down State Street with a bull elk or 5 point muley stapped on the vehicle for all to see?


I believe if you find a 5 point muley... :roll: ...... You could give it a ride down State Street if you wanted to...


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## Improv (Sep 8, 2007)

HighNDry said:


> But what about the hunter or fisherman who wants to show off their catch? Why can't they strut around with a stringer full of fish or drive up and down State Street with a bull elk or 5 point muley stapped on the vehicle for all to see?


I'm not saying you can't parade around a stringer of trout while fishing the Green. You can also bring a ham and cheese sandwich to a Bar Mitzvah. Either way, you're going to get some strange looks.


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## RnF (Sep 25, 2007)

Improv said:


> I'll completely agree. If the intent of the fisherman was correct, then there should be no reason to criticize or berate someone for doing the best they could.
> I too will keep fish on occasion...


The thing is, usually the person who is getting berated doesn't even know they are doing something wrong. What should be done, is instead of pouncing on them (not saying that you do this), tell them what they are doing wrong and why. An then tell them the proper way to handle a fish. Now, if the person is still mishandling fish after they have been educated, that is a different ball of wax.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

I agree with the original post to a point.
I see on ALL forums, that someone catches the fish of their dreams. So they pose for a nice photo...kewl.
But, I have also see, mud all over the fish as if it had been dropped several times, or blood running down the side of the fish as well as all over the catchers hand. Even right now fish that look as though they have been stuck in snow batter. And then the catcher says, "The fish was released unharmed" No it wasn't, just cause it swam off.
Anyway, I say if you don't want to get hassled, wash that mud, blood or snow off the trophy squat and hold the fish nice and high with that big ol' smile.
I will not get into it with anyone that is proud of there catch even if all of the above is evident
The Damage is done, and getting into it with someone in the HAPPY place or PROUD place isn't going to change anything.
So, pat them on the back, tell them good job, then pm them and MENTION they might wanna try this or that.
Just cause a fish got hurt, you don't have to hurt the catcher also.
Just my rant.
M


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## BrookTroutKid (Oct 10, 2007)

Chris why did you start this thread we were playing football with all those fish we caught at minersville that day, I guess thats why they dropped really slowly down to the bottom when we releas  ed them. :wink:


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## gnfishn (Sep 25, 2007)

There are a lot of great points in this thread. I do however have a hard time with the comment "fish are hardier than we think". Everyone has a different level of understanding of how hardy a fish is, and if someone who reads that already thinks they are quite hardy creatures, they may be lead to believe they can continue to use a dry towel to handle the fish, let it roll around in the dirt and carry it around for a few minutes before deciding to release it, and truly believe the fish will be fine. My opinion is that fish are actually quite fragile even in good water/oxygen conditions. And that if you do intend to release the fish, it should be handled with the correct techniques to increase it's odds of survival. And I'll be the first to admit that it took me some time and experiences to learn what those correct handling techniques are. In fact truth be known, I still have a few questions. But I do feel (MY OPINION) that trying to help educate someone else on proper handling techniques should be done via PM, and in a non threatening manner. It is human nature to get defensive when someone tells you that you are doing something wrong. Especially when they are rude and offensive when they do it, and especially if it is in public. And if this occurs, we are much less likely to be open minded and think about what the real point is, and try to increase our knowledge and improve our way of handling the fish.


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