# Cleaning between shots



## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm getting ready to try some 240 gr XTP and Barnes 290 gr TMZ in my 50 cal Pro Hunter FX.I only have 50 gr 777 pellets to use. I was curious as to when you more experienced muzzleloaders clean, after every shot or when it gets hard to load? Thanks


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I shot Pyrodex RS powder for 20 years, actually up until this year. This will be my first season using loose Triple Seven powder. I could get 5 shots with the RS and then the barrel was filthy, probably filthy after the first couple of shots, but remained accurate up to 5 shots. The Triple Seven is a bit different as far as how fast the barrel gets dirty. It's a lot cleaner burning and easier to clean out of the barrel. I still swab after 5 shots. I think every shot gets a bit harder to load after the first shot. I have not tried Blackhorn powder yet to compare cleanliness.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Really depends on your projectile type. But for me, I clean after every shot... EXCEPT for a quick reload for potential follow up shot (I nearly always reload after a shot "just in case"). "Funs in the shooting" my dad used to say.

A full bore conical will "Scrape" fouling off the barrel wall as its seated, thats why some people get more shots before fouling builds up too much.

Best accuracy in all my guns however, is from a clean barrel. Shooting a 2nd shot in a dirty barrel will open my groups up to 2-3", plenty decent for a followup shot (if needed). 3rd shot out of a dirty barrel will be in the 4-6moa range... beyond 3rd shot its nearly unusable.

I keep a ziplock bag with a half dozen lightly damp windex soaked patches for quick swabbing.

-DallanC


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

DallanC said:


> Really depends on your projectile type. But for me, I clean after every shot... EXCEPT for a quick reload for potential follow up shot (I nearly always reload after a shot "just in case"). "Funs in the shooting" my dad used to say.
> 
> A full bore conical will "Scrape" fouling off the barrel wall as its seated, thats why some people get more shots before fouling builds up too much.
> 
> ...


I was shocked today how much the 4th shot was off, 10-12 inches at a 100 yards. I'm gonna clean after every round and see what happens.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

Fowlmouth said:


> I shot Pyrodex RS powder for 20 years, actually up until this year. This will be my first season using loose Triple Seven powder. I could get 5 shots with the RS and then the barrel was filthy, probably filthy after the first couple of shots, but remained accurate up to 5 shots. The Triple Seven is a bit different as far as how fast the barrel gets dirty. It's a lot cleaner burning and easier to clean out of the barrel. I still swab after 5 shots. I think every shot gets a bit harder to load after the first shot. I have not tried Blackhorn powder yet to compare cleanliness.


Wish I could find some Blackhorn down here in Southern Utah.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

BH209 is terrible... you wont believe the black patch you get after a single shot. And BH209 is unbelievably hydroscopic.

I've NEVER had a single spot of rust in the 19 years I've had my Remington 700ML Stainless until I tried using BH209. I'd cleaned the barrel before storing but not the breech. A couple months later I broke it out to shoot it and the nipple was rusted over, the plug was *extremely *difficult to remove (and I always use anti-seize on my threads). It was very rusted. Luckily, the rust was all down near the breech so the barrel itself is pristine. I had the bolt mod kit and associated breech plug, which uses Lehigh vent liners so I just replaced the vent, wire wheeled the plug, did some careful cleaning of the first 1/4" of barrel from the breech end, and reassembled. Its again shooting 1MOA with pyro.

So anyway, if you get up north I have a unopened bottle or two of BH209 I'll gladly sell.

-DallanC


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

It depends on what whether or not you start hunting with a clean barrel or a fouled barrel. If you start with a clean barrel, you need to clean after each shot to "accurately" zero your sight in. If you plan to hunt with a dirty barrel, or anticipating a follow up, clean after every other shot or so to narrow the gap of error on your sight in.

I fire a primer on a clean barrel before loading for the first shot. If the second shot on a first shot fouled barrel is within 2 or 3 inches out to 150 yds (with a variable scope) or 100 yds (with a fixed scope/open sight), it's good to go.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm just curious why people want a fouled barrel when hunting? Potentially corrosive fouling etching the barrel? Who knows when you will get your shot at an animal, first day or last day. I want my barrels as clean and pristine as possible.

***EDIT: I should clarify the above to hunting with a fouled barrel in a modern gun. The older overbore slow twist round ball barrels needed fouling to tighten up the bore to patch gap, much more common in the 62cal guns and the like.*

As I said, my 2nd shot from a newly fouled barrel is only 2-3MOA vs 1MOA from a clean barrel... good enough for a follow up shot, but ALL the time leading up to that first shot, my barrel is pristine, no chance of etching or barrel damage.

I understand the logic behind the "fire a primer" or using a "Squib" load to pre-foul... but dont understand the why. I've never fired a primer after a cleaning, because I've completely disassembled the gun before hand, soaked it in cleaner along with the breech and cleared the nipple with a pick. There is no oil or anything else to "clear" prior to loading up and hunting.

/shrug I salute those that have a system that works for them... there are just a few things I wonder "why" (such as: why do people cut the throat on a dead buck? What is there to bleed out if the heart has stopped beating?)

-DallanC


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

DallanC said:


> /shrug.. there are just a few things I wonder "why" (such as: why do people cut the throat on a dead buck? What is there to bleed out if the heart has stopped beating?)
> 
> -DallanC


The only reason I cut the throat is to pull the windpipe. I suppose this could be done from the inside though. I'll try it in a couple of weeks if I don't have to quarter the deer up to pack out.


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## Hill Hunter (Dec 1, 2017)

Almost every time I go to load a second shot when hunting, it is incredibly difficult. It has been hard enough that there have been times I could not seat the bullet (good thing I didn't actually need the second shot). But I can easily load a second shot when shooting at the range. I suspect this has something to do with the powder absorbing some moisture, but have not been able to pin down the conditions leading to one shot heavy fouling, and now swab between shots even though it is much slower loading a second shot. This has been with Pyrodex and 777 out of both a CVA Elkhorn and Accura MR.

Anyone else have issues with worse fouling in the field relative to the bench?


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## kdinkel (Oct 29, 2014)

I shoot BH 209 and I do not clean between shots and have found my accuracy better that way. Everyone does it different but that has been what works for me. I shoot Barnez TEZ in a TC Triumph. Having said that it isn't like I shoot a ton of shots when hunting. A couple to make sure I am still accurate and then one or two during the hunt. I tear down and clean my gun each year and oil it (I know many disagree with that). I shoot a fouling shot to clear the oil out before sighting in.


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## goforbroke (Jan 4, 2009)

I love BH209 also, but I have found it to be more corrosive, but I can shoot 10 plus shots without cleaning and still have good accuracy and be able to load.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> I'm just curious why people want a fouled barrel when hunting? Potentially corrosive fouling etching the barrel? Who knows when you will get your shot at an animal, first day or last day. I want my barrels as clean and pristine as possible.
> 
> /shrug I salute those that have a system that works for them... there are just a few things I wonder "why" (such as: why do people cut the throat on a dead buck? What is there to bleed out if the heart has stopped beating?)
> 
> -DallanC


Just to clear any debris or moisture that may be in there. When I zero, I do it on a clean barrel, one second shot fouled, and then clean again. If I have to reload multiple times to shoot an animal, I am seriously doing something wrong or should just throw my hands up in the air and go home.

As far as cutting the throat, that's what someone saw their dad or grandpa do when they killed a steer after shooting it in the forehead with .22. This works because the heart is still pumping and you are able to get most of the blood out. Cutting the throat of an already dead animal is dumb, unless you want to use is as a "handle" or "pull rope" when gutting.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'll cut the throat of a deer that I have shot just to be able to pull the windpipe out of the neck without exposing meat to dirt when I drag the animal out. 

But then there are quite a few hunters who don't utilize the neck meat of a deer.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Critter said:


> I'll cut the throat of a deer that I have shot just to be able to pull the windpipe out of the neck without exposing meat to dirt when I drag the animal out.
> 
> But then there are quite a few hunters who don't utilize the neck meat of a deer.


Throw chunks of neck into a pressure cooker, remove the bones, and use the shredded product in burritos.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

My aunt used to pressure cook the elk neck roasts. That is as good a roast I've ever had.


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## MrShane (Jul 21, 2019)

Try the BH209, it is great stuff. I switched to it with Barnes TEZ and couldn’t be happier.
I shoot it out of the TC Encore system.
I don’t cut throats either. Why introduce flies/maggots in more areas than already available to them.
I reach way up windpipe from interior of animal and just rotate knife around windpipe to severe. Then yank it out with guts.
P.S. Too bad we can’t gut big game like we gut fish.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

MrShane said:


> P.S. Too bad we can’t gut big game like we gut fish.


You can, you just need to be big enough to rip the guts out with one hand.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

People do that more commonly back east, they use a small brisket saw to split the ribcage, then its easy peasy. I dont like exposing things to dirt and dust. It also makes the carcass super floppy if you have to drag it any distance. I've always reached further in after freeing the diaphram with the same hand and cut the windpipe and esophagus.

-DallanC


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

DallanC said:


> Really depends on your projectile type. But for me, I clean after every shot... EXCEPT for a quick reload for potential follow up shot (I nearly always reload after a shot "just in case"). "Funs in the shooting" my dad used to say.
> 
> A full bore conical will "Scrape" fouling off the barrel wall as its seated, thats why some people get more shots before fouling builds up too much.
> 
> ...


Cleaned after every shot today, 2 50 gr pellets of 777 and 240 gr XTP. went from 2 1/2 inch groups to 1 inch @ 100 yards. That'll do since i can't adjust the powder amount. I'll see how the 290 gr TMZ shoot next time.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Irish Lad said:


> Cleaned after every shot today, 2 50 gr pellets of 777 and 240 gr XTP. went from 2 1/2 inch groups to 1 inch @ 100 yards. That'll do since i can't adjust the powder amount. I'll see how the 290 gr TMZ shoot next time.


Yup!

You only need the mildest spritz of windex on a patch to swab between shots. Windex evaporates super fast so moisture isn't a concern. I mentioned I carry a ziplock with some mildly soaked patches for quick use, plus I have one of those small travel size liquid soap bottles with windex in it in my possibles bag. Windex is the bomb for cleaning smokepoles that you do NOT use bh209 in. You use windex with bh209 you are going to get rust.

The other advantage of using windex to clean smokepoles is your wife isn't going to get irate when you clean a gun on the kitchen table unlike solvents.

-DallanC


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