# Wife gave us the go ahead...



## rabbitslayer (Sep 17, 2007)

We got the go ahead to get us a hunting dog. It will be our first hunting dog, however I have trained narcotic dogs and ran K-9s for law enforcement. Just looking for some tips for picking out a puppy. I would prefer a lab and I have 3 young boys who are eager to help. We will be hunting waterfowl and upland game. What are the advantages of a male vs. female? Anyone know of any upcoming litters? What is the cost of keeping a dog? Not interested in a "show" dog just one that is good with kids and loves to hunt. 

It should be fun starting the process to getting us a new member of our family. Me and my son have been duck hunting like crazy the last few weeks and are longing for a dog. Thanks.


----------



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Labradors are working machines, but you need to do your homework before just running out and purchasing the first one you see. I would recommend getting one from a reputable breeder and not just some backyard breeder. There are a lot of health problems associated with labradors, so I would look at pedigrees for health clearances on both parents. (eyes, hips, elbows, EIC) The cost to own a dog varies. The labrador I have now weighs 70 lbs and goes through a 20 lb bag of food every 2 weeks. 
When it comes to male vs. female debate I don't think one is better than the other. 
I will tell you this, they are the best tool you can have in the marsh period. They keep you company and work their tails off to find your birds for you. Good luck!


----------



## rabbitslayer (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up. That's a great looking dog you have there.


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Similar to picking out a PSD pup, do a good selection test and look for the drives you want, you'll want to find one with high hunt and retrieve drives that is social. What kind of PSD's did you run?


----------



## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

I have a litter on the ground right now that is 1 week old now. All yellows. i think i have 1 female and 2 males still available. You can go to my website for a bit more info and some pictures. These dogs will have some fantastic hunting ability in then as well as a great family dog. The female and the pups are actually in the house with me and she is a great dog to have around.

http://www.sprigkennels.com/labrador-re ... puppies-1/

As far as male vs. female goes there really isnt a big difference with regards to hunting ability or temprement. The female will go into heat 2 times a year if you dont get her spayed and the male dog will usually "mark" everything in sight when they become mature. Other than that there really isnt a difference in gender. You can get calm or super hyper dogs in both genders and everything in between. I do prefer the lab for upland, waterfowl and a pet for the family as they have a great temprement and can hold their own on just about any kind of bird hunting.


----------



## rabbitslayer (Sep 17, 2007)

Good info, USMARINEhunting fool, I ran a single purpose narcotic K9 who was a yellow lab, and previous to that a tracking bloodhound. I also worked and trained with our dual purpose Malinois. I was spoiled having all the food and vet bills paid for but switched units about 2 years ago and am now looking to train a hunting dog. I agree just understanding the different drives will help in selecting a pup.


----------



## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Right on man, I run a Dual Purpose Mal right now, I just got a Dutch Shepherd pup 8 months old now to replace the Mal. He's going to be a great dog. With puppies it is a lot harder to do the selection tests due to their young age and inability to focus so if they show slight indicators of the traits you want it is likely those traits will continue to flourish if you help them in that direction. For a hunting dog I currently have a 8 year old female black lab, she is a bomb upland game dog but really dislikes the taste of waterfowl, but will retrieve them. She is extremely social and is great around the family with my 5 yo, 3 yo and 10 mo. I chose her because she had a lot calmer temperment. Unlike my PSD's which I want with the higher drive/temperment. Others like their hunting dogs to be what I like to call "spasmatic" which can be ok, but I like a dog that works close, slow, and consistant. I like females for hunting dogs, but sprig hit the nail on the head its a personal preference thing, you deal with issues on both, with the females you don't get the distraction if they get onto coyote or other dog odor as bad as with males. Again just my experience. Sprig kicks out some dang good dogs so I would take him up on atleast looking at his pups. Which brings up another good point, dogs from proven lines generally have a better chance at having the traits you want, but I'm sure you already knew that from working with PSD's. Good luck dude! Make sure you get pictures and let us follow your progress, thats always fun. Good luck.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Labs are great pets and awesome retrievers. I don't think you can go wrong with a pup from forum members Sprig Kennels or tshuntin. Either one will provide you with a dog that will do everything you could ever want it to in the field.

As to the cost question- food was already mentioned. I feed my Lab about 3 cups per day, plus table scraps (particularly vegetables, which are just as good for dogs as they are for you and the kids). A 40 lb. bag of food is running between $27.99-33.99 right now. 

Beyond that you need to consider the costs of veterinary care and de-worming. Other than rabies, I do my own vaccinations and de-worming. Rabies has to be done by the vet. I have had dogs in to the vet to treat injuries almost every year I have hunted. My Lab has been sewn up on a couple of occasions (after hours ran $300) and once had to have salt bulrush spines removed from his eye by a canine ophthalmologist ($1000). I also had a dog break a leg after falling off a cliff while chasing chukars (I opted for a cast and no surgery; don't remember the cost). What I am saying is you need to plan for vet bills. 

Also, your dog needs adequate shelter. I built my own dog house with wood, nails, insulation, tar paper, and shingles. I bought my dog runs on KSL to save money. The run really should have a roof or that shade material that can be stretched around the run (about $40 at Cal-Ranch). I have one of each and I like the roofed dog run best. The shade stuff leaks.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Please allow me to make a shameless plug for another breed. 

From what you described above, "hunting waterfowl and upland game, good with kids and loves to hunt" you just described a German Wirehaired Pointer. I'm headed into my 28th year owning this breed and I can tell you from years of experience, there is not a more versatile dog out there. They are hard swimming hammers in the water, they are machines on pheasants, crippled/winged birds don't have a prayer, they'll track a wounded deer for you, and they make GREAT family dogs. Plus, many of them don't shed. Who could ask for anything more!  If I've struck any interest at all with you, go to this web sight and read all about em. There's also some great pictures of them doing it ALL. http://www.vdd-gna.org/

Here's my newest pup retrieving a full grown live mallard at eight weeks. :twisted: 









Oh, and did I mention they are good looking also? 8)


----------



## Watcher (Dec 31, 2008)

Tex-o-Bob: I have always been curious about this breed as it appears to be very versatile. So I went to the link and read this:

"Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950’s, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed. Click here for a little more history on the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP)."

What are your thoughts on this statement?


----------



## honkerhound (Dec 31, 2012)

I have a question on this backyard breeding. If a guy chooses not to turn in his AKC papers on a pup and then breeds his dog with another dog that has a proven track record, and both have a proven healh history. The guy has also hunted behind both AKC papered parents of the sire would you call this a back yard breeding?


----------



## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

no dog should be bred without the very least bare minimum with regards to health clearances and that is OFFA on hips and elbows. It is possible to have 2 "cleared" OFFA dogs pass on a "fail" to an offspring with regards to hips, especially in labs where hip dysplacia is a big problem. it is even possible, even though very uncommon, to have two "excellent" ratings produce a pup with fail rating with regards to hips. there are more to health clearances for breeding dogs but it is amazing how many still dont do know about hip dysplacia in labs and anyone that has seen a dysplastic dog would never want to bring another one into this world if at all possible.


----------



## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Watcher said:


> Tex-o-Bob: I have always been curious about this breed as it appears to be very versatile. So I went to the link and read this:
> 
> "Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950's, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed. Click here for a little more history on the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP)."
> 
> What are your thoughts on this statement?


They are the same breed... Many of my fellow DD guys will argue this, but in the end the same DNA runs through the veins of both dogs. Now that I've said that, let me say this. If you choose a GWP from AKC (American) lines there are a lot of good dogs out there from very reputable breeders. Unfortunately, there is also some garbage. Not NEAR as much garbage as one will wade through to find a quality dog in the Lab world, but you can get burned. In the DD (German) lines there is a standard that all who own and breed DD's are held to. There is a rigorous testing process and dogs who don't test well don't breed. Being held to these standards is what has kept the DD a very tight bloodline with great dogs being put on the ground. That's not to say you cant get a dud DD, you can, but it's not likely. Holding the breed to this high standard has led some to believe that over the years the GWP has evolved into a separate breed apart from the DD. I don't buy into that arrogant hogwash at all. They were ALL DD's in the first place!!! People simply brought DD's over here from Germany, didn't want to play by German rules, and registered them with the AKC instead. It is simply two different breed "registries" within the same breed of dog. One (DD) is German, one is AKC (American). I will always buy DD's from now on because they are consistently putting better dogs on the ground, NOT because they are a different "breed" of dog.


----------



## cwnhtr (Nov 29, 2012)

With DD pups aren't they considers GWP's until they pass the tests?


----------



## honkerhound (Dec 31, 2012)

I have read that it is not a good breeding practice to breed for a specific color in lab. IE like breeding 2 chocolates to get a litter of chocolates. The reason given was that chocolates have a higher risk of having health issues. The article even sugested that Ch and. Ylw shouldn't be bred, because they carry the recessive gene. And I'm nott saying that blacks don't. What's your thoughts on this as a breeder and do you think that this is this article has a valid point?


----------



## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

cwnhtr said:


> With DD pups aren't they considers GWP's until they pass the tests?


No, they're still registered as DD pups when they are given a number and tattooed. (8 weeks old) In order to breed that have to pass the tests.


----------



## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

breeding just for color will hurt any breeding program because it doesnt focus on health and performance of the animal. the problem isnt breeding chocolate to chocolate per say its breeding a poor bred chocolate to a poor bred chocolate, for example. chocolates do have a higher level of poor dogs in its relm, not because of the color, but because they were bred just for color and other factors weren't involved in the breeding criteria. just because a gene is recessive doesnt mean it is a bad gene, it just means that it takes two genes, one from each parent to express itself. unfortunately a lot of the bad genes in dogs do end up as recessive genes because they are harder to detect in a gene pool because they hide themselves until they are combined with another recessive gene. but so do the good recessive genes



honkerhound said:


> The article even sugested that Ch and. Ylw shouldn't be bred, because they carry the recessive gene.


what recessive gene are you referring to? a recessive gene is just a description of how a gene expresses itself with regards to another gene. chocolate is a recessive gene to black for example. chocolate isnt a bad gene, just a color. there are many other genes that go into making up a dog that often get tied in with color of a dog. i would have to read the article to give an accurate view on it but from what you have mentioned i think the article might be a bit misleading.


----------



## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Heres my .02. I have had both a "bloodline" lab and a backyard dog. IMHO, the "bloodline" dog throws a puppy that give you a better starting point. We all have seen good back yard dogs. Lets face it good trainers can over come a lot of bad, but since few of us are professional trainers starting with a "better" puppy gives us a better chance to have a quality dog. As for color, my "bloodlined" lab was a chocolate, I put him down after 14 years. He did blow his knee and had it replaced when he was 3-4(before I had kids and that kind of money seemed like a good idea). The chocolates that were in his bloodline carried a lot of cancer, and it always seemed to me(no proof) that chocolates seemed more hyper.
My backyard dog is now 8, and the only thing that has kept him alive is my son. He still chews crap up like a puppy. He seems to NEVER pick things up, experience doesn't seem to imprint on him. In short he isn't really very smart, he is lazy, and has never been a good hunting dog. Yes I know I am not a great trainer, but as a teenager I worked for a Springer field trial trainer, so I do have some advanced knowledge.
So when we put down my old chocolate(RIP Magunas Tazmanian Devil, Taz) I wanted to start at a better starting point. I actually have my hold on one of Sprig Kennels females. Went up to visit Sprig and put down a deposit, and get a look at mom. Sprig is a good dude, he has a laid back place, and lives in the heart of waterfowl USA(Corrine). I went Yellow and female. I did so because I have a new trainer at my house(he' s 7) and my obsevation(again no actual proof) is that on average a yellow female might be a little more laid back. HOWEVER, that ain't cheap, this puppy is expensive when compared to dogs on ksl, but I look at that as an investment on me and my son doing something together(for a few years), and I don't want the end product to be poor which would discourage my boy. Nothing is exact, but I am trying to play the odds, and I am putting my money on Sprig and one of his puppies.
As for other breeds, I thought about a Chesepeake. I had a bad experience with a German Shorthair, and I had a springer from my days field trial training. My previous dogs were outside dogs(I have been told this is going to change). Labs don't take a lot of maintance. Nothing sticks to the fur, they don't have flags or ear hair to collect burs, and until it gets in single digits they don't notice the cold. They are tough as nails. Its a pretty hard breed to pass if you hunt waterfowl and upland.


----------



## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Good choice, hossblur. Now if only Jeff would toss a little *BLACK* factor into his line... 8)


----------



## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

BirdDogger said:


> Good choice, hossblur. Now if only Jeff would toss a little *BLACK* factor into his line... 8)


I am actually thinking of that for an upcoming litter. I own a really good black male i am considering using in the near future. 8)


----------



## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

If it were me buying a Lab, I would get nothing BUT a black. Like Sprig said, too many idiots out there breeding JUST for the color and throwing talent out the window. Labs... Augh...


----------



## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

hossblur said:


> Heres my .02. I have had both a "bloodline" lab and a backyard dog. IMHO, the "bloodline" dog throws a puppy that give you a better starting point. We all have seen good back yard dogs. Lets face it good trainers can over come a lot of bad, but since few of us are professional trainers starting with a "better" puppy gives us a better chance to have a quality dog.


Very well said. A well bred dog is just that, a starting point and from the moment it comes home from the litter it is up to the trainer to make or break the dog's future. A good pedigree is only a "list of ingredients" and it is up to the chef to make something good out of that list of ingredients. One has a much better chance of making something great if it starts off with something great but once that dog leaves the litter it is on the trainers shoulders and not the pedigree to turn that dog into something special. After training dogs for as long as i have, i have learned you can train any dog if you have the time to put into it and make any dog better with training and patience but a well bred dog does quite often make the training easier, faster and the dog often has much more potential in the end.


----------

