# Snake bit dog



## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Today I was in my house watching a guy ride his motorcycle in the field behind me. He had 2 dogs with him that were running beside him and having a good time. (Heeler & American Bulldog) Well, the Bulldog slowed way down and then collapsed dead. I went out to talk to the guy and see what happened. I was thinking heat stroke or cardiac arrest, but the dog was young and healthy and runs with the owner all the time. There were 2 bleeding puncture holes on the dogs butt about 1 1/2" apart, the dogs tongue was swelled and gums were dark. The owner told me he was concerned with snakes today as it was a cooler day, and the snakes tend to come out to sun. Not sure I would have thought it was a snake bite but after seeing the puncture wounds I have no doubt. I would have thought it would have taken hours or days for symptoms to show, but within minutes this dog was gone. Anybody ever heard of a dog dying so quickly from a snake bite?


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## Sprig Kennels (Jan 13, 2009)

not from snake bites i havent heard of that happening but i have seen a perfectly fit and healthy 2 year old boxer running along side his owners atv suddenly die in his tracks and the resulting opinion was a massive heart attack from the vet. i guess it can happen that suddenly if it is heart related and the dog is running hard. i always thought snake bites, even near the head take a couple of hours to get deadly but i have never encountered a rattle snake yet with my dogs so i am lucky so far.


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## jpolson (Jun 12, 2011)

I always thought it took longer. 

I get a rattlesnake vaccine every year for my lab for that exact reason. I am not sure how long it takes, but the vaccine is supposed to buy you quite a bit of time. I think it only cost about $35.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

My brother-in-law's Lab lost a leg to a rattlesnake bite. The dog didn't die but he was flat on the ground, listless, and only partially conscious probably 20 minutes after the bite. The dark and swelled tongue and lips are sure signs of a bite.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

It was a strange situation for sure. I really thought the dogs death was from over exursion or heat stroke, but the 2 holes on the dogs hind quarter convinced me. I feel bad for the owner losing a dog like that.


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## twinkielk15 (Jan 17, 2011)

Not sure how it works with dogs but I would assume it's the same as with people. It's all about how quickly the venom gets to the critical organs. The harder the heart is pumping the faster the blood is moving. That can really speed things up. Just a guess. Poor dog.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

$15 A SHOT- need 2 shots a week apart and then 1 a year after that according to the vet- He has had 4 bites in this year (Cache Valley)


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## Afishnado (Sep 18, 2007)

On Father's Day 2008 (yes I remember that day well), my chocolate lab was struck several times by a rattle snake. It was really less than 10min and he died.


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## wapiti67 (Oct 2, 2007)

I was bit by a 8" diamondback when I was 16...my leg swelled up 3x the size and I was sooo sick...took a week of being in the Gunnison hospital and 8 anti-venom ampules to finally go home...I ended up with a skin-graft and no feeling in my calf.


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## jeff788 (Aug 7, 2009)

I took my pup to a snake avoidance clinic about a month ago and I had an interesting conversation with the guy that brought the snakes. He told me about the different species of rattle snakes, where they live in the state, and how their venom differs. I can't remember all of the names of the species, but I do remember him saying that the rattle snakes in Northern Utah have hemotoxin venom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemotoxin), but the snakes in Southern/Eastern Utah have both hemotoxin and neurotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemotoxin). Neurotoxin is much, much nastier and things go down hill much quicker than with hemotoxin.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Been searching for a snake avoidance training seminar but can't seem to locate one- anyone know of a site or anything that would have some listings and dates ?


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## Narient (Jan 9, 2011)

twinkielk is right on the money. The more your heart pumps the faster the venom spreads to vital areas. That's why you're not supposed to panic when you've been bitten. If the dog was running after it had been bitten, it would only take a few minutes for the venom to damage the heart.

Poor dog... What a painful way to go too.


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## jeff788 (Aug 7, 2009)

I found the clinic I attended on "http://birddoguniversity.com/Snake%20Safe%20Home%20Page.htm". They don't have anything else on their schedule for the year, but at the clinic I attended they said to keep watching because they were planning on doing another one in SLC. The SnakeSafe training is done by Web Parton, who is based out of Phoenix, so most of his clinics are in that area. He is a very experienced bird hunter and dog trainer. I was very impressed with his work and highly recommend this clinic to anybody. At the clinic they mentioned that Utah has some very unusual laws that make holding clinics with live snakes very difficult.


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## JackandAllie (Sep 29, 2010)

I've never been with a dog thats been bitten. If you are out hunting and your dog gets bit, is there anything that you can do?


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Best thing is your car keys and to a vet-


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## Narient (Jan 9, 2011)

I recall reading about one method, but it's not pleasant. It was meant for people in a no other option type situation, but you take a stun gun and as soon as possible, run the electric current over the bite area. The electricity is supposed to neutralize the venom and of course you'd want to get the dog to the vet asap too.


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## RoosterKiller (May 27, 2011)

My dog got bit 3 times in april by a rattler. Within 20 minues she was swollen around the neck and laying flat and not moving. Took me two hours to get back to town. Then once in town I had a flat tire. It was like the never ending drama.Finally got her to the vet The only reason she made it was because of the vaccinations that she previosly had. Had I not missed last years she probably would not have needed to stay in the hospital. Here's a video of her at the hospital. 



 So if this dog got bit and continued to run. Yeah he could have a heart attack.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

RoosterKiller said:


> The only reason she made it was because of the vaccinations that she previosly had.


How do you know that for a fact?


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## RoosterKiller (May 27, 2011)

gdog said:


> RoosterKiller said:
> 
> 
> > The only reason she made it was because of the vaccinations that she previosly had.
> ...


I was with a friend once who had a lab. This dog weighted twice as much as my dog. Got bit once, got to the vet within an hour of being bit. Was bit by a rattler with only one type of venom vs the two types my dog got. The dog was dead in three hours.The only difference was the vaccination. Mine had it his didn't.
Do I know for a fact? No.But the circumstancial evidence is compelling in my opinon.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Not challenging...the issue with the Red Rock shots is there is no clinical study to verify how effective the product is. All "proof" is opinion based. Fact is...you have no clue how much venom your dog received vs the other dog, nor how each individual dog will react to the snake bite. I know of some cow dogs that have been bite many times, without having ever gotten the shot and are still running around today. Too many variables/unknowns.

Its one of those cases....for $20 mine as well get the dog the shot....but if you search...there's no true validation that the shots work or to what degree.


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## RoosterKiller (May 27, 2011)

Here's a little more info on the subject.
http://www.rattlesnakevaccines.com/


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Who owns that website and where is the info from? Quick look to try and find who owns the domain, comes up "private registration", which is not uncommon. I did find a post that stated Red Rocks owns that site, but I can't confirm.

Here's some info to chew on.....

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/whatsnew/article.cfm?id=1883

I'm not against the vaccine. I've given it in the past to a few of my dogs. For the cost of $20 bucks...if it MAY help...then why not. BUT the point to this is there is no actual long (or short for that matter) term scientific case study on the product to prove its effectiveness....other then opinion based results from people who directly benefit financially from selling the product. There is no way to know if and to what extent it actually helped if your dog is bitten. As said earlier....best option is your car keys and a credit card at the ready for the upcoming vet bill. From a marketing stand point...its a great product...claims to help risk associated with snake bite for dear ol fido....sell a ton of it....no proof needed.....cha ching!

o-||


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I have wondered about the effectiveness of the vaccine and if it really works. If it does work it would definitely be worth the $20 especially in early season chukar country.


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