# Is 100 gr. enough?



## Hunterchick (Dec 4, 2014)

So I'm going muzzy hunting! Super excited! Been shooting my gun, it's hitting pretty good. But it seems like everyone I talk to is shooting more than 100 grains of powder. I'm currently sighted in with 100 gr. triple 7 and 250 gr. hornady sst. I don't want to shoot further than 150 yards. But let's say a scenario presents itself, and I need to shoot 200 yards, will that load set up perform well enough to kill an animal at that distance? Will more powder make me more accurate? Less accurate? I'm pretty new to this stuff so I'm asking for opinions. I'm not asking for opinions that 200 is too far and unethical. Thanks in advance! I can't wait to hopefully get a deer this year!!


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Hunterchick, Im in the same boat as you and shooting the exact same load for deer this year. This is my first year with a muzzy. Looking forward to some responses on your thread here.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Only you and your rifle can say if your best accuracy is 100, 105, 110, ect grains of your powder. Different rifles like different loads so go try a few and see what you see. 100 grains is enough and if that is what your rifle likes then shoot it with confidence.


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## Grey ghost (Jun 19, 2013)

I shoot 100 grains by volume of blackhorn with a bonded 300 grain tc shockwave, complete pass through on my bull at 70 yards. He never knew what hit him, walked twenty yards and tipped over. Like muddydog said go try out your gun with different volumes and see what it likes best. Before my hunt everyone was saying to increase my volume to 120 grains of blackhorn, but I found my gun likes 100 best. Dead on at 100 with a 4 inch drop at 200 yards.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

777 is hotter than normal Pyrodex to start with, the bottles all had that warning on them.

For myself, I shoot 90grns Pyrodex and dont feel limited in the slightest. Shooting longer distances is more about knowing your ballistics and drop. Trying to overcome that with faster bullets just isnt necessary (assuming you have the energy down range for the kill).

I watch all these new people try load after load of all the new "Whizbang" powders and bullets, post after post about specialized primers, custom breechplugs etc etc required to even light the stuff, ignition issues etc etc... I just laugh and continue to tip over deer year after year with stinky ole Pyrodex and XTPs. 

-DallanC


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Grey ghost said:


> Dead on at 100 with a 4 inch drop at 200 yards.


I kindof know more than the average guy about Ballistics, having written one of the most popular ballistic softwares out there... I would really like to see what muzzle velocity you have.

According to my calculations, your bullet would have to be over 3000fps to be sighted in at 100 yards and only 4" low at 200. Just not possible.

-DallanC


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## Grey ghost (Jun 19, 2013)

Nothing exact, and I'm definitely no expert on ballistics. Just found what worked in my gun and figured out my best combo. You are probably 100% correct that it's not possible as we never did any calculations just went out and shot most shots were at 100 and we just played around at 200, just to see what we would get, that's what I consistently averaged, but shooting. 1x power and open sights as we practiced was for sure not exact the same place every time. I never intend to shoot at animal at that distance so we didn't spend a lot of time on it. Just messing around at that range everything is so small in the 1x power scope that I like to keep it 100 yards or in. I know exactly where I am hitting at 100 yards or less.. Sorry if I caused any confusions. Just trying to say figure out what load and bullet your gun likes and go shoot it. I found what my gun likes without changing anything but the powder. I switched from pyrodex to blackhorn and that's all I changed, same stock breech plug and same primers I use for pyrodex and I got better groupings out of my gun. Dallan what's the name of your software? I'm always interested in learning more about how all of this stuff works. Again sorry if I have bad info. Happy hunting it's almost time!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

PointBlank, you can get it here (its freeware)

http://huntingnut.com/index.php?name=PointBlank

-DallanC


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I shoot 100 gr. pyrodex with the 250 gr.SST's for deer.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

DallanC said:


> I kindof know more than the average guy about Ballistics, having written one of the most popular ballistic softwares out there... I would really like to see what muzzle velocity you have.
> 
> According to my calculations, your bullet would have to be over 3000fps to be sighted in at 100 yards and only 4" low at 200. Just not possible.
> 
> -DallanC


Caught my attention as well since I'm shooting close to the same combo and I have about 12" at 200 yards.


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## Slayer (Feb 3, 2013)

I am in the same boat. Excited for the muzzy deer hunt!! Shooting 100 grains, .50 cal, 260 grain sabot. Open sights as low as they can go. 100 seems to be plenty. In fact its shooting too high. 4" high at 50 yards and 14" high at 100 yards. Where would it hit at 150? 200 yards?


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Have shot 100 grains Pyro with a 348 grain bullet for a long time. 
Has always worked well. I even have to make sure I aim a little low for a downhill shot.


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

Slayer said:


> I am in the same boat. Excited for the muzzy deer hunt!! Shooting 100 grains, .50 cal, 260 grain sabot. Open sights as low as they can go. 100 seems to be plenty. In fact its shooting too high. 4" high at 50 yards and 14" high at 100 yards. Where would it hit at 150? 200 yards?


Something isn't right here as a rifle shooting 4" high at 50 should be about dead on at 100 and not 14" high. 14" high at 100 would put you about dead on at 200 give or take an inch or two. I suppose this could be possible if the rifle is shooting way high and at 50 its still coming up. Basically I would say this rifle is no where sighted in and needs some more work.

Why not put a taller front blade on the rifle to give you some more adjustment in the rear sight? I had to do this with a TC New Englander as it shot way high with the rear sight bottomed out.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

My experience shows you should be about 2-2 1/2" high at 50 yds. You definitely need to come down a ways IMO. Good luck on the hunt!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Slayer said:


> I am in the same boat. Excited for the muzzy deer hunt!! Shooting 100 grains, .50 cal, 260 grain sabot. Open sights as low as they can go. 100 seems to be plenty


My hawkin is that way, drop your powder charge 10 grns and retry it, it brought mine down considerably

On a sidenote, I've been looking for a hawkin front sight that is 3/16" higher than the standard for just this reason. The gun has a fast twist barrel and is super accurate, just shoots high with 90-100gr charge.

-DallanC


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## polarbear (Aug 1, 2011)

I have an old traditional cva mountain stalker. 80 grains with a tc maxi hunter is all I ever shoot. Never had a problem with killing deer or pronghorn.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

Most accurate load in my .45 Hawken is 80gr pyrodex with a 240gr maxiball. If I add more accuracy suffers.


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## Slayer (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks for the info. I think i will lower the powder down to 80 or 90 and see how it shoots. Good luck out there everyone!!


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

I'm all for shooting a reasonable load at reasonable distances but why start knocking off FPS when in your initial post you want to push the 200 yard mark. Call around to a couple gunsmiths and find one that has a taller front blade and get it changed out. I guess it is getting close to the season so you might have problems getting it done. Sportsmans does have Vortex 1x scopes last I saw, best 1x scope on the market.

My bad as Slayer isn't the OP but still why decrease FPS. Heck if nothing else move up to a 300 grain slug and see if that drops your POI.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

I saw my buddy shoot a deer at 200 yards with a similar load. 250 grain sabot in front of 100 grains of powder. It was a perfect low behind the shoulder shot and the bullet passed right through. The buck ran about 30 or 40 yards and crashed. I shoot a 90 grain charge with big heavy conicals. I've never even shot a deer at further than 100 yards with a muzzy I don't think but I have put those big heavy conicals into the brisket on head-on shots and recovered them from the underneath the hide on the rump. 100 grains of black powder is plenty potent for deer.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

100 grains is plenty, and I'd focus on what creates accuracy... you'll do what you want to do as far as how far you're willing to shoot... with open sights or even a 1x scope, you're shooting at a pretty small target beyond 90 yards... REALLY small if it's a yearling deer.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

My wife and son are both hunting with a muzz this year, and I'll be setting them up with 80 grains (or whatever near that is most accurate) behind a patched round ball... they won't be shooting at anything beyond 100 yards though, and I REALLY doubt either one will be comfortable taking a shot beyond 80 or 90.


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## Mavis13 (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm confident my muzzleloader will kill a deer at 200 to maybe even 300 yards. The problem isn't the load it's the sights. Without a magnifying scope I can't aim that far out. My open sights at 150 yards starts to cover half the deer. It's more of a guess than is ethical. I'm still comfortable out to about 130. But that's about all for me.


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## elkman (Sep 1, 2013)

this is why I don't like pellets with new muzzle loaders. Back when I bought my Knight rifle I messed around with a lot of different powder charges and bullets but not until after I wasted a lot of time and money on pellets. Each gun is different and will like different bullets and volumes of powder. Buy loose powder start at 80 or 90gn and go up from there. Dont be afraid to try different powder or bullets. If you buy loose powder you get a lot more flexibility. My powder measure goes in 10gn increments. Some may do smaller I dont know. Anyway what I found works for my old Knight is either 90 or 110gn pyrodex select with a 240gn TC Mag Express sabot. It was actually a cheap bullet and it holds together pretty well. I have killed a lot of deer and a few elk with it no problems, but thats my gun may not work well with yours.

Here is another tip for you. after you find what powder and bullet your gun likes take a powder charge and put it on a scale. measure 5-10 charges and average the weight then start weighing your charges. that helped me dial my groups pretty tight. Just be careful this can get dangerous if you dont keep track of what you are doing. I have it written down in my reloading room but if I remember correctly 110gn of the powder I use weighs about 79gn on the scale. 
If you do this or not I would suggest marking your ramrod where it sits in the barrel when you load then make sure each time you load that your ramrod is the same each time. This is especially important if you get up towards max loads for your gun.
Maybe more info than you wanted but I wish I had someone teaching me when I got into it.

and yes 100gn is plenty.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

I used to shoot loose powder, but tried the pellets and loved the ease and consistency. I bought 50 grain and 30 grain pellets so I could mix and match to make my best load. I am currently shooting 130 grains triple 7 (2 x 50's and a 30) behind a 300 grain SST. I couldn't be more pleased with the results out of my Accura LR. I have my 1x sighted in 3" high at 100 yards, which puts it dead on at roughly 160 yards, with about a 4-5" drop at 200. The intent was to have under 5" of variance from the point of aim at 0-200 yards. 

I sight in all my centerfire rifle at 3" high at 100 as well, depending on the caliber it gives me a 250-300 yard zero.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Flyfishn247 said:


> I used to shoot loose powder, but tried the pellets and loved the ease and consistency. I bought 50 grain and 30 grain pellets so I could mix and match to make my best load. I am currently shooting 130 grains triple 7 (2 x 50's and a 30) behind a 300 grain SST. I couldn't be more pleased with the results out of my Accura LR. I have my 1x sighted in 3" high at 100 yards, which puts it dead on at roughly 160 yards, with about a 4-5" drop at 200. The intent was to have under 5" of variance from the point of aim at 0-200 yards.
> 
> I sight in all my centerfire rifle at 3" high at 100 as well, depending on the caliber it gives me a 250-300 yard zero.


pretty dang similar to mine...130 grains of triple 7 pellets and a 290 grain barnes. I haven't shot it out to 200 yards but my buddy had about an 8 inch drop when he shot the same load.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

100 grains is more than enough. 200 yards with a modern inline rifle is something that comes with shooting practice and cannot be overcome by just dumping more powder into the barrel. Most people who miss at 150 - 200 yards do so because they haven't spent enough time practicing with their gun and open sights. The rifle is usually more capable of making the shot than the shooter in this case. 

However, if you want to find out what your optimized load for your gun is approximately, this is the method I was taught. First, this applies to loose powder. However I imagine once you get the load worked out, a similar charge in pellets probably wont be drastically different. Different, but not drastically.

Anyway, I was taught to lay out a white sheet in front of where I was working up what load to shoot. You would take your best shot, and then inspect the sheet for unburnt granules of powder. You continue to increase the load in 5 grain increments until you see a spray of unburned powder on the sheet. You'll find a point where you reach the maximum powder charge for the bullet you're shooting, and granules that haven't been burnt spray out. Anything past that point leads to inconsistency and wasted powder, along with developing bad shooting habits and flinching. Then I would work backwards from that maximum load level, in 5 grain increments, to find the sweet spot where the gun would group the best. I found it was usually 15 - 20 grains less than the max for my rifle. 

For pellets, I just tried various combinations of pellets along with the 12 gauge primers for faster ignition. 80 (a 50 and a 30), 100 (two 50's), and 130 grains(2-50's and a 30) . I've found that I get much tighter groups at 80 and 100 grains than 130, and that learning your gun is a much better solution than trying to skimp on practice with technology. Making that shot repeatedly at the range not only trains you to make that shot when the pressure is on, it makes you much more confident to take the shot, and less likely to second guess your shot and then miss because you held high out of doubt. And the weight of the bullet you're shooting at 50 cal. has more than enough downrange energy to kill when placed accurately


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, I haven't shot it out to 200 either, going off of ballistic charts I have compared to. I did test the 160 yard zero though, was grouping at 2" around the bullseye and smacking clay pigeons every shot. I don't plan on shooting further than 160, my eyes aren't what they used to be, 160 is far enough. Its just comforting to know if I center my crosshairs in the killzone out to 175 or so I should be golden.


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