# Crowning the barrel?



## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

What goes on when this is done. I have heard it is good to do for better accuracy, I just have no clue if it is worth it or what it even does to the gun. Thanks for any info.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

What they do is recut the end of the barrel, making the muzzle square with the bore. This makes the bullet leave the bore cleanly, with the gas exiting around the base of the bullet evenly so as not to upset the balance of the bullet in flight. I hope this is a good explanation.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Loke said:


> What they do is recut the end of the barrel, making the muzzle square with the bore. This makes the bullet leave the bore cleanly, with the gas exiting around the base of the bullet evenly so as not to upset the balance of the bullet in flight. I hope this is a good explanation.


Yup , what LOKE says .


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> What they do is recut the end of the barrel, making the muzzle square with the bore. This makes the bullet leave the bore cleanly, with the gas exiting around the base of the bullet evenly so as not to upset the balance of the bullet in flight. I hope this is a good explanation.


That didn't explain nothing..!! :mrgreen:........ Loke do you mean perpendicular to: or do you mean 'in-line' with. ?

I really am curious, I have a 45-70 that needs the barrel cut down a little due to some weirdo installing a peep site that looked like crap. I was going to hacksaw it off and grind the inside of the barrel a little so the bullets come out cleaner. Am I out of line here? Are you talking about something else....


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

"square to the bore". I wouldn't do the hacksaw thing. Take her into a good smith.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Geez .45 why don't you just use a chainsaw.. :roll:


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Geez .45 why don't you just use a chainsaw.. :roll:


 *OOO*


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> Geez .45 why don't you just use a chainsaw.. :roll:


I was hoping the hilbilly would respond to this....I knew _you_ would know what to do !! :mrgreen:


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

:lol: :lol: :lol: o-|| o-|| o-|| o-||


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

While you all decide which kind of saw to use (I would personaly use a dremel free hand) I will ask you this. Here are some of my best groups to date. These were shot today from my .243. The first is a 3 shot group that measured 1". The second is a five shot group that measured 1.25". It was kinda breezy today so keep that in mind. The question I have is...What can I do to the gun to get these groups tighter? I have been working threw some hand load recipies trying to find the perfect one. I realize this can take years to do, but I think Im making good headway. The rifle is a stock .243 Howa 1500 Varmint. It has the barrel floated and stock glass bedded. I hate the way the trigger feels, like there is a mile of rugged creep before bang. I know I can get a trigger for it, what else is there to do?



















Thanks.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Need more info. Bullet weight ??? Twist Rate ??? Have you tried a ladder test on powder charges ??? ........................................ What fun, why we reload. :wink:


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

I dont know what you mean by latter test. If it is starting at a beggining load then working up in .5 grain increments to the max load,then yes, that is how I got to this point. My rate of twist is 1:10. It is a 24 in heavy barrel.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

Yup you got it. What bullet weight ?? New brass ??


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

70gr Speer HP. These have been the best grouping so far. I have tried 55gr ballistic tips too. They are about the same, but I get flyers everynow and again. When I get more money I will try other powders and other bullets. In the two weeks I have been reloading I have shot over 200 reloads. The brass I use is not new. It is fire formed and only neck sized. I have been sure to keep track of how many times the brass has been fired to keep the tests consistant.
Yes reloading is a blast. Its a personal compitition with my self. I wont win until I can put the bullet threw the same hole every shot at 100 yards. Until then I shall strive.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

My Remington .243 is a 1/10 twist. Tried some lighter 58 grn. Vmax's that were just horrible to group. I got great groups with 80 grn. HP's in Winchester. I'm jumping back up to the 87 grn. Hornady HP's. that I used to shoot years ago for long distance P-dogs. I have pretty good luck with the heavier bullets. May not be fur friendly , but I don't care. There isn't much left of a P-dog. The 1/12 twists like the lighter bullets, the 1/9's-10's like the heavier bullets. The above is just a guide, some rifles will shoot whatever you put down the tube.


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

If you want to try a few 87 grn Hornady HP's , let me know. I'l give you a few. I'm working up some loads now. Also be aware , temperatures can change performance. I'm waiting to get a day over 50 deg. to shoot some new test rounds myself.


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

Al Hansen said:


> If you want to try a few 87 grn Hornady HP's , let me know. I'l give you a few. I'm working up some loads now. Also be aware , temperatures can change performance. I'm waiting to get a day over 50 deg. to shoot some new test rounds myself.


I might have to hit you up on those 87 grn HP's. Next on my list is hornady 65 grn Vmax's. Thanks for the info.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Bullet seating depth can and will affect your group sizes. Also, what kind of rest are you shooting from? If you're shooting from the hood of your truck at a target at an undetermined range those groups are excellent. From a benchrest off of sand bags at 100 yards, they're quite respectable. Another question is does your rifle like to shoot better with the bore spotlessly clean, or does it shoot better dirty? My 300 Mag shoots it's best with at least 25 shots through it. In all reality, a one-hole rifle is extremely rare. The fun is in trying to find that perfect load.


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## woollybugger (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm telling you, an 80 gr. SPEER in .243 is a very accurate bullet. Give it a try. I get 0.625" groups from my Rem. 788.


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> Bullet seating depth can and will affect your group sizes. Also, what kind of rest are you shooting from? If you're shooting from the hood of your truck at a target at an undetermined range those groups are excellent. From a benchrest off of sand bags at 100 yards, they're quite respectable. Another question is does your rifle like to shoot better with the bore spotlessly clean, or does it shoot better dirty? My 300 Mag shoots it's best with at least 25 shots through it. In all reality, a one-hole rifle is extremely rare. The fun is in trying to find that perfect load.


Ok so here is a question for you. How far off your lands do you seat the bullet. I have been doing .04". If I go much farther on some of the lighter bullets it doesnt seat them deep enough to be secure. I shoot from a steady rest. The bore needs to be fowled before I get good groups. I usualy shoot three rounds off at some rocks before I start to test loads.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Every rifle is a rule unto itself. You'll need to find a load (bullet, powder, primer, case) that looks promising, or is what you want to shoot, then tweak the seating depth and such. There is an article in the latest issue of handloader that addresses seating depth. One guy likes his loads tight to the lands, another .015 off of the lands. The most accurate rifle I had, and I spent the most time working with, liked its bullets just barely touching the lands. Due to throat erosion, the bullets were just barely hanging on to the case by 1/8 of an inch. This was the 140 gr. BTSP from Hornady in a 270 Winchester. It would put 5 shots in to 3/4 inch all day long.


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

Loke said:


> Every rifle is a rule unto itself. You'll need to find a load (bullet, powder, primer, case) that looks promising, or is what you want to shoot, then tweak the seating depth and such. There is an article in the latest issue of handloader that addresses seating depth. One guy likes his loads tight to the lands, another .015 off of the lands. The most accurate rifle I had, and I spent the most time working with, liked its bullets just barely touching the lands. Due to throat erosion, the bullets were just barely hanging on to the case by 1/8 of an inch. This was the 140 gr. BTSP from Hornady in a 270 Winchester. It would put 5 shots in to 3/4 inch all day long.


Sounds good. In the two books I have on reloading both say to find the proper seating depth for your gun, but neither addressed the exact amount from the lands it should be. The one load that I like right now the test length is .08 off the lands which I felt was excessive. Once I find a good load, I will work the bullet depth to fine tune it. The books I have read both said not to seat the bullet to the lands because of too much pressure build up before the bullet starts to move. What do you think about that? I dont think I could set my bullets out that far with out risking them falling out. On that note... To crimp or not to crimp? I bought a Lee Factory Crimp die and it pulled my group in by about .25 inch. I was surprised becaus everyone I talked to said that uncrimmped gives better accuracy. Im guessing it is just a case by case deal aswell.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Seating the bullet into the lands will increase peak pressure. But I don't think it would cause a problem unless you were shooting maximum loads. Seating them off of the lands will allow the bullet to get a running start, but that could affect your accuracy a bit. In my opinion, crimping in not necessary for a cartridge that does not have a lot of recoil. I have read that the Lee factory crimp die could help with accuracy, but I have never tried one. The only thing I can see it doing is (possibly) helping to keep ignition a little more consistent. The downside would be that if your cases are not the same length (exactly), you won't get a consistent crimp on every case. And an excessive crimp can affect the concentricity (balance) of the bullet. This would also do bad things to your accuracy. But a good crimp will keep your bullets (in the magazine) from being pushed in to the case from recoil. This is not a problem with my 243, it is with my 300 Win. Mag.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

huntducksordietrying said:


> I know I can get a trigger for it, what else is there to do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think this may help
This guy is **** near a guru of the Howa breed

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=237225


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