# Setting up camp early on forest service land...



## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

Anyone know a link to the actual law regarding how long you can have an established camp, what the repercussions are, and who enforces such a thing?

I've had it in my head for the last month and a half to camp in a particular spot, but when I went up to set my camp up for the archery hunt next weekend, the SAME two tents that have been there for more than a month are STILL THERE!

I know that next weekend they will be replaced with actual camp trailers of the hunters who set them up, but there has to be someone who can enforce the laws here.


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## hotspot (Jan 12, 2009)

Forest service limit is 14 days. Notify the USFS.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

hotspot said:


> Forest service limit is 14 days. Notify the USFS.


We actually met a USFS worker on horseback on our way out of checking the trail camera, and I mentioned it to him... his response was, "Yes, it's illegal, you should take the tents down and take them home with you".

As funny as that was, I'm not that kind of guy... besides, I don't want to deal with the BS that would come out of all of that when these "dinks" show up next weekend to find me camped there... I camped elsewhere, but I would LOVE for an "official" to give them what they deserve.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Notify them because it should be enforced. Don't expect a result though. i think actual enforcement of this reg is alarmingly rare.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

Kwalk3 said:


> Notify them because it should be enforced. Don't expect a result though. i think actual enforcement of this reg is alarmingly rare.


You can bet I'll be doing that, and next year I'll be documenting it more.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

One way to ensure they check it out is just add that you may have seen them with fireworks, they are very illegal in the national forests and gets the attention of enforcement pretty quickly.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

30-06-hunter said:


> One way to ensure they check it out is just add that you may have seen them with fireworks, they are very illegal in the national forests and gets the attention of enforcement pretty quickly.


But the odds are that they still will not do anything about the campers.

I couldn't tell you how many times I have reported campers to both the BLM and Forest Service only to go back into the same spot a couple of weeks later only to still see their campers or tents. I was even told by one BLM manager that there was a lot of private property in the area and that they didn't have the manpower to check it out.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

break down the tents and drop them off at the USFS. Do the community a service


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

A friend of mine had a LE Elk tag a couple of years ago.
We were hunting Forest Service land, staying in his 5th wheel.
We had barely hit the "limit" and one was all over us telling us to move a least a mile away. There was camping spots around us that were empty. 
So, I guess it depends where you are, and what officer is around.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

manysteps said:


> We actually met a USFS worker on horseback on our way out of checking the trail camera, and I mentioned it to him... his response was, "Yes, it's illegal, you should take the tents down and take them home with you".


DON'T do this. That would be theft.

It's disappointing that these things aren't enforced. Honestly, it wouldn't bother me if they were not proactive. I get it, they are understaffed and probably have bigger fish to fry. But if they get a complaint, at a minimum the rule should be enforced.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Vanilla, do you consider it 'theft' when I remove cans and bottles from the fire pits at a camp site? I say anything that is abandoned in the forest is subject to being cleaned up by good Samaritans.------SS


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

This is something that really bugs me. I see campsites all the time that look as though they've set up for the entire summer with all the junk they've got set up. 

I understand the Forest Service is understaffed, but many people more or less take over certain campsites as though they own the property. I personally think they are crazy leaving nice things on the mountain myself. I wouldn't touch their stuff, but there are those who would.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I wouldn't touch anything, it just isn't worth a confrontation. People are nuts and you don't want to put yourself in harms way. Call the forest service even though nothing will come of it. You could also post a note at the campsite reminding the people about the rules and how the forest service will ticket them. etc...


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Remember that when you report it the time to move doesn't start until they get out and check it out themselves.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> Vanilla, do you consider it 'theft' when I remove cans and bottles from the fire pits at a camp site? I say anything that is abandoned in the forest is subject to being cleaned up by good Samaritans.------SS


No I do not consider cleaning up trash and litter theft. You are free to make your own choices. Just don't say I didn't warn you if you pop someone's tent down and try and take it home.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Legally it is not theft. The property is considered abandoned.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Maybe the nice people left the tents there for us to take dumps in while we are scouting??8):noidea:-----SS


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Legally it is not theft. The property is considered abandoned.


Considered abandoned by whom? I think you guys ought to try it out. Go take the tents in question, leaving your identifying information for the authorities. Report back your findings in 6 months.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

http://thenationalforests.com/the-national-forests/national-forest-camping-rules.html


> Campers may stay up to 14 consecutive days within a 21-day period. Campers may not stay in the National Forests in excess of *30 days total in a calendar year.*
> At least one person must occupy a camping area during the first night after camping equipment has been set up. Camping equipment cannot be left unattended for more than 24 hours.
> Camping is allowed on most areas of the forest with a few exceptions. *
> Camping is not allowed at trailheads or within 300 feet of trailheads.
> Leave No Trace




You can only camp a total of 30 days total in national forests in a year? Wow... I had not heard that one.

-DallanC


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Burn it to the ground.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

^^^^^^^says the fireman^^^^^ job security.-------SS


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

DallanC said:


> http://thenationalforests.com/the-national-forests/national-forest-camping-rules.html
> 
> [/LIST]
> You can only camp a total of 30 days total in national forests in a year? Wow... I had not heard that one.
> ...


Well, that takes all the teeth right out of my argument... I'm breaking the rules too by setting up my camp and leaving even just a week early. (as is almost every camp up there too...)


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Vanilla said:


> DON'T do this. That would be theft.


As it's been said, this is not theft, it's cleaning up abandoned property. Maybe taking all the gear to Deseret Industries would be more appropriate?

If someone camped for that long in a spot I intended to use I would simply show up and watch, verify there isn't anyone there and get to work. Shears and a bolt cutter to break it all down and then a drive down to the nearest dumpster. If the stuff looked good I would donate it.

Generally people who choose to live in the woods are avoiding the responsibilities we all deal with daily. Our load is just a little bit bigger because of these kind of people.


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

Jedidiah said:


> As it's been said, this is not theft, it's cleaning up abandoned property. Maybe taking all the gear to Deseret Industries would be more appropriate?
> 
> If someone camped for that long in a spot I intended to use I would simply show up and watch, verify there isn't anyone there and get to work. Shears and a bolt cutter to break it all down and then a drive down to the nearest dumpster. If the stuff looked good I would donate it.
> 
> Generally people who choose to live in the woods are avoiding the responsibilities we all deal with daily. Our load is just a little bit bigger because of these kind of people.


These aren't "homesteaders" or anything like that... they're hunters just like me... hunters who want that spot SOOO bad that they set up tents over a month in advance so they can have the spot "reserved" for when they show up next weekend with their trailers.

Mark my words, there are three trailers, two or three trucks and a white jeep in that camp when I go up next Friday... and I won't be a bit surprised if one of them gets after me for hunting near "his" water hole. (they can kiss my rear end on that part of things)

They *could* do like all the rest of us do and go make camp a week or week & 1/2 before the opener... I would be camped in *their* spot though had they done that.

To take their tents down is just asking for a nasty confrontation when we arrive at camp next week, and I, my dad, and neither of my boys need to get involved in a scenario like that. (especially when there's no cell signal to call in the sheriff)

I took the high ground, and now I'm not going to do any "turning in" since I'm not playing 100% by the book either... can't really do that in the woods these days since pretty much everyone does it the way I did, but it really doesn't make me much better than these guys.

I *wanted* to hike out of camp to hunt, now I have to drive 5 minutes to get to my trail head... it isn't going to kill me.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

maybe there are dead campers inside them


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

35whelen said:


> maybe there are dead campers inside them


I was VERY tempted to open them up to see if there was ANYTHING in them, but there's this part of me that says, "don't mess with other people's stuff", so I didn't.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

i agree. never know who is up there doing what.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Yeah, forget what I said if you know they're hunters. You might be able to catch them in something the fishcops don't like and then have them kicked out on the technicality of the 14 day rule. Ultimately it's not worth a confrontation involving those kind of people while they're holding guns.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

DallanC said:


> http://thenationalforests.com/the-national-forests/national-forest-camping-rules.html
> 
> [/LIST]
> You can only camp a total of 30 days total in national forests in a year? Wow... I had not heard that one.
> ...


There are exceptions to these rules IF you have special use permits...;-).

And for all those other clowns leaving their camp trailers for weeks and months,
I've always joked about opening a used camper sales lot business.
I could just pull one down the canyon every day and do quite well..:twisted:


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Let me correct Goofy's statement;

"There are exceptions to the rules IF you have special ABuse permits." 

Only the highest levels of a abusers like outfitters and sheep people are allowed these permits. Small-time abusers like those who camp for too long are simply unethical law-breakers......permits are not available for this type of abuse.------SS


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Those that get the extension are the guides and the rainbow family gatherings?



Edit----TOP OF THE PAGE! And yes it is theft.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Those that get the extension are the guides and the rainbow family gatherings?
> 
> Edit----TOP OF THE PAGE! And yes it is theft.


Apparently no one other than us has heard of theft of abandoned property. .


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

we was told you had to stay in them the first night. Then you can leave them there for 16 days. After 16 days you had to move them just a inch. so even if you jacked your trailer up and turned the tire you was good for another 16 days. We have seen them give people tickets for leaving there trailers longer and leaving the camp site a mess. Other that that dont care because it hunting season.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

We camp on USFS land each year and we do not leave camp set up during the time between the Elk and GS Deer season. Thought about it but it's illegal and I don't want to have that hassle. 

It appears only us and one other small group are willing to pack their entire camp in that far, and while I haven't personally introduced myself to them I always hope they have enough courtesy to not take our spot. We chose this spot because they were in a different one and we did not want to steal theirs. They seem to set up camp earlier in the week than we do so I'm always fearful I'm going to pull up and see them in "our" spot.

Specs for our particular area:

A. Vehicles may be no more than 150 feet off the road for picnicking and camping unless otherwise posted.
B. Camping time limit is 14 days. You must move your camp at least 10 miles after 14 days.
C. Camping equipment may not be left unattended for longer than 72 hours.
D. “Pack It In, Pack It Out” is Forest policy. Dumpsters are not available for public use.
E. Weed-free hay or pellets are required for livestock.
F. Shooting is not allowed within 150 yards of campsites, roads, or lakes.\
G. Campers in developed sites must use the toilet facilities, trailer holding tanks, or porta potties.
H. Campers must abide by current fire restrictions.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't know how you guys dare leave anything unattended for so long. It will take one time of someone stealing your $hit and you won't want to leave anything out ever again. Believe me there are way too many opportunists out there that don't care about anyone or anything but themselves.


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## utjer (Jun 30, 2010)

35whelen said:


> maybe there are dead campers inside them


This one got me and a friend one time in the uintas. There was a tent near our camp that nobody was seen at for 3 days. We went to take a look and there was a lady inside who put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. That is something I never want to see again. :shock:


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Turn them in to a lost and found with the USFS, a concerned citizen attempting to locate the owner of lost gear found littering the forest floor. You would be a hero, and get the camp you want.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

One of my pet peeves for sure.
? How many miles of roads are there on the Cache National Forest that have dispersed camping? How many FS LEO are available to verify the complaints?
Same question for the Wasatch.
I would be awfully suprised if they got around to every road every two weeks.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

middlefork said:


> One of my pet peeves for sure.
> ? How many miles of roads are there on the Cache National Forest that have dispersed camping? How many FS LEO are available to verify the complaints?
> Same question for the Wasatch.
> I would be awfully suprised if they got around to every road every two weeks.


I am not sure what the figures are for Utah but in Colorado there are 27 sworn officers that police more than 14.5 million acres to enforce the laws. I am sure that Utah has fewer.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

To bad people don't abide by the laws.One summer we were at Rex res.(by Fish Lake)and there was a campsite in the nicest spot,it looked like no one had been there for days,the stuff was torn up,tent had holes in it and their coolers had been drug out and demolished.Told F.S. about it on our way out and they said they were on there way to clean it up.Said it was probably was a bear!We did look inside,but no people.


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## mjensen1313 (Jul 29, 2015)

Critter said:


> I am not sure what the figures are for Utah but in Colorado there are 27 sworn officers that police more than 14.5 million acres to enforce the laws. I am sure that Utah has fewer.


Dang...that's only 537,037 acres per person to cover; they should be able to cover each of their territory every.....year...that is if they could each cover over 2200 acres per day (given two weeks off and an extra two weeks for holidays) [240 working days]


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

mjensen1313 said:


> Dang...that's only 537,037 acres per person to cover; they should be able to cover each of their territory every.....year...that is if they could each cover over 2200 acres per day (given two weeks off and an extra two weeks for holidays) [240 working days]


That's actually not all that much. 2200 acres is only like 3.5 square miles. A better measure would be the total length of forest service roads. You can easily drive 100+miles/day thru most of these forests so I think if this was a full-time job during the summer you could cover most of the "problem" areas pretty frequently.

I'm going to try and do some GIS work on this and figure out how many miles of FS roads there are to cover in Utah.


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## mjensen1313 (Jul 29, 2015)

nocturnalenemy said:


> That's actually not all that much. 2200 acres is only like 3.5 square miles. A better measure would be the total length of forest service roads. You can easily drive 100+miles/day thru most of these forests so I think if this was a full-time job during the summer you could cover most of the "problem" areas pretty frequently.
> 
> I'm going to try and do some GIS work on this and figure out how many miles of FS roads there are to cover in Utah.


Right Nocturnal... the bigger issue is the wide-spread NATURE of it all! pun intended...

2200 acres per day isn't much until we add it all up with the distances that need to be covered and the terrain that must be traversed! Much of which may not be accessible through winter months.


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

I guess my point is that they don't need to cover every square inch of forest, mainly just the roads, and they also don't need to patrol it during the winter when it's not in use.


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## mjensen1313 (Jul 29, 2015)

nocturnalenemy said:


> I guess my point is that they don't need to cover every square inch of forest, mainly just the roads, and they also don't need to patrol it during the winter when it's not in use.


I know...I know...

I just wanted to look at the shear numbers of it! when looking at only the basic numbers I presented it doesn't look like a ton..until you add in the rest of the factors of course!:grin:

Winter patrol would most definitely be stricken from my to-do list! haha


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

I would do it if they paid me and provided the fuel for the sled!


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

If anyone cares there are just over 5,000 miles of USFS roads in Utah.


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## alpinebowman (Sep 24, 2007)

Man I better watch out. If I have my main camp set-up and head out for a spike camp for a few days it may disappear. I do agree that people that hog spots are bad and more annoying when people have left the mountain and not taken there stuff.


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