# Wood Ducks Being Over Hunted



## captain (Nov 18, 2007)

I went out today to do my annual maintenance of several wood duck boxes that I have had up for the last several years. Every year since I put the boxes up more and more of the boxes would get used. Last year every box that I had up had ducks in them and some were being used twice a year. Unfortunatley, word got out that there were wood ducks in the area last fall. I had guys telling me that they were shooting up to three limits of wood ducks a day -)O(- . I was a little worried about the impact this would have on the population after hearing the numbers of woodies that were being harvested. Well, today verified my worst nightmares. Of all the boxes that I checked none are being used, and I saw no wood ducks. I can't help feel a little disappointed. This is not an urban population, and is miles away from any city park. Either they need to put a restriction on these ducks, or people need to start showing a little more restraint. OK guys, start with the bone headed remarks about how no one is breaking any laws and that I should not be disappointed.


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## outdoorser (Jan 14, 2013)

No one is breaking any laws. And you should not be disappointed. :lol: just kidding, I actually agree with you. There needs to be some restrictions.


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## Kdub (Sep 6, 2010)

There would be if the state set limits, but its a federal thing. I personally have never taken a woodie but would definitely like to.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

It's true that no one is breaking any laws, and I can't really blame them for taking advantage of the situation within their legal right. However it does suck to see so many people that have devoted a lot of time, energy, and money to establishing and growing the limited population of wood ducks, only to have it go unregulated. The populations of wood ducks are in such localized areas within the state, that it seems like it wouldn't take much to undo some of the efforts that have been put forth. For the record, I have never shot a wood duck and would love to see a few more of them around from year to year. Just my third-party observation.

And FWIW, history and economics both say that hunters as a group showing "voluntary restraint", is extremely unlikely, as there is no regulatory incentive(Tragedy of the Commons). When everyone acts with their own short-term albeit legal interests in mind, the long term viability of a shared resource has proven to lose out pretty much every time. The only effective solution would be a limit imposed on everyone, especially since wood ducks have made strides towards establishing solid populations in some areas of the state.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

Kdub said:


> There would be if the state set limits, but its a federal thing. I personally have never taken a woodie but would definitely like to.


This brings up a good point. I understand the bag limits are determined by a federal agency for each of the four flyways. Can individual states not set their own limits as long as they do not exceed those that the feds have assigned to that flyway? For example, if we in Utah decided we would like to see more wood ducks in our state, and therefore reduced the bag limit to 1 or 2 wood ducks in effort to boost the local population. I can understand a problem if we wanted to harvest _more_ than the flyway limit, but what is the harm in imposing our own restrictions?

Personally, I would be all for a lesser bag limit on wood ducks. I have never even seen one during hunting season, let alone taken one. I saw heaps of pintails this year, and the limit is 2, so I feel a similar bag limit on woodies is not out of the question. They are one of the more beautiful and unique ducks, and I'd love to see more of them, and in more places.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't think having a limit on wood ducks is a bad idea at all. I have to wonder though, if you set a limit on them, would you have to set limits on other rare Utah ducks like Scoters, Longtails and Mandarins? I do find it interesting that the ducks that have limit regulations are plentiful, and some of the ducks that have no restrictions are rare birds here in Utah.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

yes utah can set a bag limit on the wood ducks. will it happen dont know. Would I like to see one sure even though I have not killed one.I dont know how hard it would be to set a bag limit on them and how many with us not having that big a population here in utah.Yes I know it growing and that a good thing.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Captain, 

I am sad to hear this, especially with all the effort you have put in to help.

I have noticed that most of our early nesting birds are starting a little late this year, and if I'm not mistaken its still a little early for woodies to be in full nesting mode in northern Utah.

But the fact that you saw very few "local" birds is not a good sign. Hopefully whats been done...can be "un-done."

-caleb


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Also, if regulating woodie populations via bag limits is the right thing to do, and there is biological proof of this, a largescale, multi-organizational effort by the waterfowling community should be able to work with the UDWR to get things changed.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I think it needs to happen soon. In every state I've hunted there is only a 2-4 bird limit on woodies. I know of nowhere anyone can shoot a full "limit" of wood ducks. Something needs to change.


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

Has anyone contacted the DWR about this? Has anyone brought this topic up at one of the RAC meetings?


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## gone-huntin (Feb 11, 2013)

Around were I live I don't see wood ducks until the season is well over and even then it's just a few


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

I tend to agree that there should be a 2 bird limit on wood ducks. In my experience in Utah, they are fairly easy to kill and only fly a short distance and can be jumped again and again. I have only shot a handful in Utah.

This topic has been had before, maybe 8-10 years ago. The biologist in the conversation at the time expressed that there were so few wood ducks in Utah that it was not important to protect them with decreased bag limits. Lately, it seems they are becoming more common, allowing more and more hunters to specifically target them- which in turn hurts the population. 

Best bet is to start with the biologists, get their feelings. Then go to the waterfowl groups and get them on board. Then hit the RACs. I should be able to go to the Central RAC during the waterfowl discussion if someone can attend the other RACs. Just need to get the Waterfowl Coordinator from the UDWR onboard or to be neutral.


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## captain (Nov 18, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> I have noticed that most of our early nesting birds are starting a little late this year, and if I'm not mistaken its still a little early for woodies to be in full nesting mode in northern Utah.


We have seen them in our boxes as early as mid-March before, and had some hatch as early as the end of April, so I don't think it is so much an issue that they haven't started nesting yet. I am crossing my fingers that at least a few of them get initiated this year.



InvaderZim said:


> Also, if regulating woodie populations via bag limits is the right thing to do, and there is biological proof of this, a largescale, multi-organizational effort by the waterfowling community should be able to work with the UDWR to get things changed.


I guess I don't see how this could not be the right thing to do. I think what I am observing this spring is evidence enough that the population can be overshot. In discussion with the DWR they are convinced that this is an artificial population that was introduced to Utah. We did research with Utah State University, and found that some of our birds were making down to Southern California, and birds from Oregon and the pan handle of Idaho have been harvested in Utah. This tells me that the population is well integrated into flyway, not so much an "artificial population". Like Tex mentioned, other states in the East, which have lots more wood ducks than we have, all have bag limits on wood ducks. Why would Utah, that has far less wood ducks not do something to protect them a little.



Jeff Bringhurst said:


> Has anyone contacted the DWR about this? Has anyone brought this topic up at one of the RAC meetings?


This topic has been brought up to the DWR many times, but they just keep asking us for more hard science before they do anything to drastic. Tom Aldrich came along and helped check wood duck boxes one day with us, and I sent e-mails to Jim Karpowitz that were never responded to. I have also had many discussions with wildlife biologists around the state with no response. Even Carl Taylor, the lead guy for the Wild Over Wood Duck program has told me to hold off on being so vocal about it until we have some hard science to back it up, but when I see the wood ducks being pounded as hard as I have the past few years it is hard for me to sit around and wait for the "hard science" to appear.

I have no problem with people shooting wood ducks. Heck I usually shoot a few drakes every season, but wood duck populations can be very fragile, and it is not hard to do some real damage if you find out where a colony resides, and shoot them up relentlessly.

I will now step down off my soap box.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

It's true, I have hunted from Alabama to Utah and Utah is the only place with woodies that i can recall not having a restricted bag limit. 

What's even more asinine is this issue is a really simple fix, and wouldn't cost much if anything to implement. I guess everyone can just chalk it up as one more "WTF" moment for utah's DNR. Sometimes I wonder about them.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

How the heck did I miss out on all those birds????? That sucks captain. I know you and others have put in a lot of man hours to help the small population get a good hold. Just goes to show there are many killers out there but fewer sportsmen. The sad thing is once you get a good thing going it doesn't take long for some knuckle heads to ruin it.. Kind of the Utah way I guess.. If you ever need help you know I'm just a call away...


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Captain,

im so sorry to hear this news, although if you remember, years ago after doing all that repair and installation work we did discuss "the what if's". This was THE one _what if_, neither of us wanted to happen. -)O(-

let me know if there is anything we can help with.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> I don't think having a limit on wood ducks is a bad idea at all. I have to wonder though, if you set a limit on them, would you have to set limits on other rare Utah ducks like Scoters, Longtails and *Mandarins*? I do find it interesting that the ducks that have limit regulations are plentiful, and some of the ducks that have no restrictions are rare birds here in Utah.


in all actuality (and dont ask me to site my source  ) Mandies do not count against the bag as they do not occcur naturally on this continent (invacive species) same can be said for Mute Swans. Nor do hybrids as they do not identify to one specific species. BUT, having said that, i sure wouldnt test that info.

well maybe, there was that small pile of euro dove's one time in late January... :EAT:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

It's too bad that the vast majority of people always do what they feel is best for themselves rather than what is best overall, in consideration of in the bigger picture of things, or what is in the best consideration and in respect for the game they hunt. 

This is the tip of the iceburg, but if putting restrcitions in place before it causes major problems, I'd like to see it happen. 

Problem is that nothing is usually done until it's so screwed up that it's past repair. People usually don't wake up to the facts until it's way too late to turn things around and it becomes damage control. Call it human nature, stupidity, whatever, but........it's the way that it is.


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## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I agree 100% with Captain. I have seen the very same results on a couple of my more publicly accessible areas. 2 bird limit would be fantastic IMO.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

1BandMan said:


> It's too bad that the vast majority of people always do what they feel is best for themselves rather than what is best overall, in consideration of in the bigger picture of things, or what is in the best consideration and in respect for the game they hunt. .


+1


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

Captain, 

For the record, I am in no way opposed to reducing the limit on woodducks.

My only point was that a well calculated approach, supported by scientific data, will help when working with the UDWR. It may take time and significant compromise; don't expect results overnight. Not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Good luck, 

Caleb


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## captain (Nov 18, 2007)

InvaderZim said:


> Captain,
> 
> For the record, I am in no way opposed to reducing the limit on woodducks.
> 
> ...


Whatever Zim, stop trolling and looking for a fight  . As an Environmental Scientist for the State I know exactly what you're saying, and it was the response that, unfortunately, I knew I would get. I was just blowing off a little steam after I got home from running the boxes over the weekend.


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## InvaderZim (Sep 7, 2007)

You have put a lot of effort into this, so's I don't blame ya!


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## duckkillerclyde (Mar 26, 2012)

This video explains why people shoot over their limits on wood ducks.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

duckkillerclyde said:


> This video explains why people shoot over their limits on wood ducks.


 :lol: You see one that's been eating in a flooded pin oak stand!!!

Tex, recon you could fix that neck???? :mrgreen:


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