# how young is too young?



## trasmuson3 (May 31, 2011)

hey everyone, so i was just curious how young is too young to start using a shock collar for training? there are a few commands my pup knows but wont follos, such as "come" when running in the field. he knows what it means but doesnt comply. he's 8 months old and i was just wondering when to start training with a collar?


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Don't ruin your dog by throwing on a shock collar before he truly understands that what you are saying is a command he has to obey. You need to teach him everything on a rope first. Then when he performs commands perfectly with a rope on you can transfer to the shock collar.

It's too easy to say, "My dog knows what I'm saying but doesn't mind." No, he doesn't know that you are in charge and he has to mind you. Dogs obey the pack leader. He may know the come command but he doesn't know that it has to be obeyed when you say it. You need to establish who is in charge by teaching him every command while he's on leash or on a long rope or check cord. 

...and your dog is plenty old enough for a shock collar. Whatever you do, don't be hammering down on the shock collar when he's trailing a bird!


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## Bret (Sep 7, 2007)

+1


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## Theekillerbee (Jan 8, 2009)

What breed of dog did you end up getting? Any pics?


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## yfzduner450 (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm with birddogger on this one. Pup is plenty old enough but be careful about fryin' him. I would bet the pup may know the command somewhat, maybe at home with no distractions but in the field is a whole different story. The first probably 5-10 times out in the field I have my dogs where a 30ft check cord. This is after all the yard work to teach the "come" command is done. The first few times i will hold it and test the dog, depending on the response from the dog depends on how early they just start draggin' the cord. Some dogs get it fast and some don't. I think the "come" command is probably the most important command and I really work my dogs on it. I'm sure i've taken some range outta my dogs by doing it this way but they certainly know what "come" means.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> Don't ruin your dog by throwing on a shock collar before he truly understands that what you are saying is a command he has to obey. You need to teach him everything on a rope first. Then when he performs commands perfectly with a rope on you can transfer to the shock collar.
> 
> It's too easy to say, "My dog knows what I'm saying but doesn't mind." No, he doesn't know that you are in charge and he has to mind you. Dogs obey the pack leader. He may know the come command but he doesn't know that it has to be obeyed when you say it. You need to establish who is in charge by teaching him every command while he's on leash or on a long rope or check cord.
> 
> ...and your dog is plenty old enough for a shock collar. Whatever you do, don't be hammering down on the shock collar when he's trailing a bird!


+1 1/8

If he doesn't KNOW the word "come" and obey it most all the time, you've got no business shocking him into understanding it. You'll have a basket case on your hands faster than a cat can lick his own azz. The dog MUST understand why he's being stimulated or all you'll do is confuse him and ruin him. The e-collar should be nothing more than a back up to keep him honest about what he already knows.


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## lehi (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree with what these guys are saying. The last few trips I went on, I didn't even bring the e-collar because I was confident he already new the basic commands he already knew. If I see he ignores those commands in the future, I will put the collar on him.


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## trasmuson3 (May 31, 2011)

So like I said, we have about an 8 month old dog. we got him about 4 months ago from a rescue, and took him to the vet and their opinion was that he is a mix of a lab and a springer spaniel cause of the freckles on his nose.. i'll see if i can figure out how to post a picture tonight.

The reason why i ask all these questions however about Vizsla and the Drahthaar, is because i do a lot more upland bird hunting, and have always preferred hunting behing a pointing dog. My wife and I are looking to move into a home, where we will have room for our dogs to run in the back yard, so we are thinking of getting a new dog. 

My wife isn't a big fan of the way the Drahthaar's look, and i gotta do what i can to please her, so i think that they our out. She doesnt like the beards, however i dont think there is a better looking dog. But i've been researching The GSP's and the Vizsla's. I think we are leaning more towards getting a GSP here sometime in the near future hopefully. (depends on when we can get a house.) So i am sure i will be needing info on a good breeder for GSP's sometime soon too. haha Anyway, thanks for all the good info.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> My wife isn't a big fan of the way the Drahthaar's look, and i gotta do what i can to please her


Then buy her some flowers...

Are you looking for a hunting dog or a house cat?


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## pheaz (Feb 11, 2011)

Congrats on the rescue. I was hoping your mix with a spotted nose would be a springer britt cross or something, not LAB.


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## trasmuson3 (May 31, 2011)

Haha I know. I myself prefer the upland bird dogs but he's a great pup. He needs a buddy though and I'm thinking the GSP is gonna be it.


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## Jsw (Dec 5, 2010)

GSP? They are awesome dogs ice got a female and she is a great dog can't go wrong.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

He should be more than old enough now. Get him on the ropes with the e-collar on him, but not working. Don't use it until he's ready. Work him through some drills on the ropes until he has it down pat. It may take a day or two, or it may take a week or two. Keep practicing until you're positive he's got it figured out that when you tug on the rope, he needs to come. Praise him when he does, just like a little pup. As with anything, don't over-do it on the length of your training sessions. Keep it positive, and reward him with some fetch when you are done. When you feel confident that he's understanding and complying, start using the e-collar in your rope drills. Start at low levels of stimulation, and keep using the light tugs on the ropes as you did before to show him its still the same drill. Make sure you keep the stimulation going until he gets to you. Gradually work your way up on the power level until you get a "yip" from him. Every dog is different, and you don't want to over-do it or he'll get afraid. I had to do this "intro" drill two or three times with my pup before he got accustomed to the sensation of the collar and figured out that it would turn off as soon as he complied. But he got it figured out, and now I rarely have to stimulate him with the collar. He always wears it when we are out training, playing fetch, going on walks, or hunting, but I rarely have to use it. Its nice knowing I have that tool to get his attention if need-be.


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## Rabbit_slayer16 (Oct 18, 2007)

> My wife isn't a big fan of the way the Drahthaar's look, and i gotta do what i can to please her


Trust me.. when she sees an 8 week old ugly dog puppy, she will love them. My mom hated the looks of them untill i brought home addie. She loves wires now.


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## trasmuson3 (May 31, 2011)

so what are your opinions on what he is?


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## Royal Retrievers (Nov 24, 2009)

The change in environment makes the dog distracted and a check cord is all you need, Socializing the dog to the field helps as well.


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