# Cutting Phrag



## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Say a feller wanted to cut away some phrag to make himself a little pothole in the middle of the "forest". How would he go about clearing the area, and how long could he reasonable expect it to stay clear?


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'd imagine a sharp machete would make sharp work of the phrag. I think how fast it'll fill depends on when you cut it. Once it is dry and dead, I'd imagine it would stay that way but if you were to cut it now, it'd probably at least grow back a little by the time the season gets here.


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

its best togo buy one of those big gas hedge trimmers. they make light work of it and with in a day you can make you a nice little hole...


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

I took a machete out with me on the boat last year with the idea that I was going to cut phrag or reeds or whatever was handy to conceal my boat and stuff from the birds that much better.  

I spent several hours putting a REAL edge on the machete that I bought, as it was aparently edged by liability lawyers or their recent victims. :roll: 

Anyway, I did manage to conceal the boat fairly well, but I dulled the machete in next best thing to no time and it took me better than an hour to cut enough phrag to conceal my 12 foot boat.
SO, that is MY input, you can blow that up to how much phrag there is in the spot you want to clear and how much time and energy will be required to clear it.
Also keep in mind that you will have to cut it far enough below the water surface that it is not visible from above or the birds will not land in it.
You might also want to make sure that the DWR is going to be okay with it before you do it, and make sure they know you will be there and why. Some of those areas are only open during certain months of the year. That is of course assuming that you are going to do this in an area controlled by them.

As riverrat said, the phrag is still growing and the later you do this the better you will like the results, if you did it right now you would probably be hard pressed to identify the spot come opening day. :wink: 
Good luck with that.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

You can go to home depot and rent a big hedge trimmer.. they cut lots of phrag. if you have two or three people you can clear alot of area in no time flat. its leagle to do on any state soverty lands. I know some that have done it and have had great success come waterfowl season.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

For people that hunt in areas that are now lost to phrag, the pothole-cutting option is our best hope for immediate hunting opportunities. The machete method is a non-starter...don't bother. The best way is to go to Homies and rent a gas-powered hedge trimmer for about $30.00 per day. I've cut potholes in the spring and the fall. The spring is best to remove thatch and clear the general area, but you will have to do it again in the fall. The spring cut is light and easy to grab armloads of cut phrag and clear your pond. The fall is tougher because it is green and very heavy. The best time that we have found (so far) is in September or October. At this time, the water levels are still very low, so you can cut it short and the water coming in November will cover the stalks and produce a pretty nice pond. It is much easier to re-open/reclaim a pond that is getting phragged over than it is to open a hole in a mature phrag patch. You will also be able to save some bullrush or other desireable plants because a newly phragged pond will still have some remnants of desireable plants. If you let the pond go for a year, all the good stuff will be dead and the phrag will be 10' tall. This method also works well in cattail patches that are overtaking a previously productive pond.
R


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Gas powered is the way to go for clearing holes, for brushin boats use one of those small cheap folding wood saws, I have a Gerber and it makes short work of cutting camo.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So in order to cut a pothole suitable for ducks to land in/frequent, the water must be higher than the prag stubs? Will those hedge trimmers cut just under the surface? Is it possible to cut to 2 or 3 inches above the surface, and then stomp it down?

Also, if I found an area to do this at say, Farmington or Ogden Bay, are there any restrictions on how big I can make it, or where I could do it inside the WMA?


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't know about the size or restrictions part, but if you are planning to stomp frag butts down , you are going to want to take more than one pair of HEAVY soled boots. I walk out through burned over areas every year, and just walking over those stubs feels like I am about to tear out the soles of my boots and waders.

Best idea is to find an area that you know will be flooded later, but isn't now, and cut the stems as short as you can, hopefully the incoming water will cover them deep enough.
You might be able to get one of the employees out there to tell you what areas are going to be flooded and how deep, if you don't already know. They might very well welcome a guy with ambition helping them remove some frag.

I don't even have the energy anymore to THINK about this idea very hard, much less actually DO it. :mrgreen: 

Hope it all works out for you.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

I've done numerous ponds that way and you're right it is a lot of work. Keep in mind that you will need to cut a hole at least 40 yards X 40 yards so you can retrieve your birds. It takes two guys about 3 hours to open up a huntable hole, less if you are just re-opening a pond that is being overtaken. It all pays off in the long (and short) run though. More openings means more places for birds to sit down and rest for a bit. Right now they have so very few ponds left, that most of them head out to the lake and raft up or head to the rest area instead of spreading out in the marshes in their favorite little potholes. Just think of the possibilities if only a few hundred guys (out of 19,000 duck hunters) went out and cut just one hole each...duck city baby!
R


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So I looked at gas trimmers yesterday at Lowes. They run from $150 to $200. It might be worth the investment! 

I have some time now and up until school starts that I could do something like this, I just don't know where to go. 

I know the gates at Farmington that allow you to drive down the dikes are closed right now, so I guess I would just have to hoof it all the way down to even check out the areas to do this. The other thing is how do I know if an area that is dry now will be flooded later? Seems to me that the water is higher in the springtime than it is in the fall, what with run off and all. Would my best way to find out be to ask the guys at the North entrance?


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

The water levels at Farmington are controlled by the operators out there, they install or remove boards from the culverts to keep/release however much water they want on any given area.
If you are not familiar with a certain area from hunting there in past years, then the best plan would be to ask the guys at the offices.
They may also be able to tell you how soon you will be able to get near the area that you want to cut.
It is just possible that they may even be willing to let you in outside of the normal timeslot so that you CAN cut.
All you can do is ask.


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## wingmanck (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's some info from the Division's website concerning Farm. Bay (I would imagine the other WMA's are similar) -

North entrance to Goose Egg Island
Open year round (8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.)

Unit 1 dike to Turpin parking lot
Open Sep. 25 to Feb. 28 to motorized vehicles 
Open year round to foot and bicycle

South and east entrances (to parking lot)
Open Sep. 25 to Jan. 14 to motorized vehicles 
Open Jan. 15 to Feb. 28 to foot and bicycle 
*Closed March 1 to July 31 *
Open Aug. 1 to Sep. 24 to foot and bicycle

Other dikes and roads
Open to foot and bicycle Aug. 1 to Feb. 28 
*Closed March 1 to July 31 *
Closed year round to motorized vehicles

Special regulations
Dogs are welcome from Sept. 25 through Feb. 28. *Please stay on dikes and roads from March 1 to Sep. 25 to reduce disturbance to wildlife*. Boating is allowed two weeks prior to the waterfowl season (starting about Sept. 25). Firearms allowed only during waterfowl hunting season.

I'm not sure I'd venture off into any WMA's without permission from their manager. Public land outside any WMA/refuge border shouldn't be a problem though.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I have a question about phrag? I am wanting to build a blind around my 14' tin can the comercially built ones are out of my price range I figure I can fabricate one for about a third of the cost but the shadow grass I have looked at is rather expensive. Would it be feasible to cut phrag dry it and use it as concealment material? Most importantly what would I have to do to make absolutely sure I wouldn't inadvertantly introduce this obnoxious weed into areas that are not affected by it already?


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> I have a question about phrag? I am wanting to build a blind around my 14' tin can the comercially built ones are out of my price range I figure I can fabricate one for about a third of the cost but the shadow grass I have looked at is rather expensive. Would it be feasible to cut phrag dry it and use it as concealment material? Most importantly what would I have to do to make absolutely sure I wouldn't inadvertantly introduce this obnoxious weed into areas that are not affected by it already?


http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... ISO-8859-1

8 - 4 foot sections on $49.99. Cheapest I have ever seen it.

You wont need to worry about spreading seads.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

You could use prag to cover your boat, but I don't know that it is really all that durable once it is dried out. It might just crumble away bit by bit. And you would probably have to replace it every year or maybe even more often.
A better option for lower cost is to go to walmart. They have some stuff back in sporting goods that I think is actually made from palm fronds, and is very durable, and also quite cheap, or at least in comparison. I comes in three or four foot tall by 5-6 foot lengths if my memory is accurate.
Should be a lot less than the pro kits, and WAY cheaper than the name brand kits, to do it that way.

As far as not spreading the seeds around goes, all those fluffy heads at the top are full of seeds. If you make sure that each and every one of them is either de-seeded or completely removed, then you won't risk spreading it anymore than it already is.
Though frankly I am not sure WHERE it isn't already. There is a freaking storm grate near my house that has phrag growing up through it, for crying out loud. :roll:


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks Wingmanck! That's very helpful information. I would ask the managers before venturing out anyway, just to be sure. 

As for using the phrag to build some concealment, I think you'd be ok to cut and use it as long as you cut it when it's green and before it has gone to seed. The seeds will spread like crazy if you take it when they are dropping seeds.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Chaser,
I've tried the $200.00 models at Homies and Lowes...save your money. These just aren't tough enough to handle phrag and cattys. If you can't afford a Redmax or a Stihl (about $400.00) it would be better to rent them at Homies. I hope I can save you some grief by sharing my failures.
R


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

rjefre said:


> Chaser,
> I've tried the $200.00 models at Homies and Lowes...save your money. These just aren't tough enough to handle phrag and cattys. If you can't afford a Redmax or a Stihl (about $400.00) it would be better to rent them at Homies. I hope I can save you some grief by sharing my failures.
> R


Thank you for the suggestion! It would suck to spend so much money only to have it crap out.

I did have another thought about tools for this type of job- what about a solid blade brush cutter attachment for a weedeater? I bought a Troybuilt trimmer for use on my yard, but you can buy the other attachments for it, and they run less than 100 bucks. Do you think they would have enough power to cut through a large swath of phrag?


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't know anything about brush cutting attachments for weedeaters, but I do know that they don't have a whole lot of torque which is why even having an overly long piece of string makes them bog down.
If you really want to kick A and take names, see if you can rent one of those DR Field and Brush mowers that they advertise on tv all the time. ON THE COMMERCIAL they use them to cut down two inch TREES without barely slowing down, and they are self propelled. You could probably use one of those to clear half an acre in half an hour if they work anything like the commercial says they do. Assuming the ground was firm enough to allow it to operate, and you were willing to leave a great big mown trail leading right to your new spot, because I can't imagine dragging one of those out through uncut phrag far enough to hide what you did.
And assuming that you allow yourself the time to drag out however much cut phrag you manage to take down.

But if you are _*willing*..._ :mrgreen:


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm pretty sure it is ILLEGAL to use phrag as a concealment for your boat. Besides, we have a bad enought situation with that weed than to use it and take a chance on spreading it more and more.
I use Pompus Grass on my blind and it works very well. The seeds will not grow in the alcoline soils found in our marshes along the GSL.
Check out the neighbors and parks. In the fall everyone (nearly) cuts back the foilage and I'm sure the parks departments or business parks that have this as an ornamental foilage would be very happy to have you cut it down and take it out with you.
Another alternative is plain old toolie stock leaves. Found nearly everywhere.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Chaser said:


> rjefre said:
> 
> 
> > Chaser,
> ...


I know some guy had one of those type cutters out at the Spur cleanup and while it worked decent, it wasn't in the league of the above mentioned cutters.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Okay, so maybe that's not as great an idea either.

Hey MAYBE...

A box of matches and 5 gallons of gas!
















JUST KIDDING!!!


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Actually, the season after a burn is the best time to find a good spot and work on keeping it open in the future. If the area has been treated, it will be pretty easy, but if it is a wildfire like the one at Ogden Bay a few years ago, you would need to stay on it or it will be lost. Too bad that fire was in an area that I have no interest in, or it would have been a great opportunity to keep some holes open. I'll keep praying for lightning...you should too.
R


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

So what you are saying is the best way to clear an area is to plant a 25 foot steel rod straight up and down. :wink:


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Ha! Great idea, but if that really worked there would be 1000 metal rods already pounded into the marsh! Probably the best chance for fire is in areas near subdivisions (most of the marsh) where some 10 year old kids go out and play with matches. 
R


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

A ghillie suit and some roman candles.
But you have to know how to USE the ghillie suit so you get away without being identified or arrested.

Alternatively, some cannon fuse, some baggies of gasoline/accellerant and the willingness to be out in the marsh when there is a lightning storm in the vicinity.

Unless they actually trip over the det point, they won't see anything but a very localized ignition point, that could be mistaken for lightning. :twisted: 

Just make sure that the wind is minimal so the burn pattern does not point right back to the source.

I am sure glad that I am too intelligent to both post these kind of directions AND use them myself, that would be dangerous. :shock:


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## Amy (Jan 22, 2009)

Just wanted to post a heads-up: if weather conditions permit, the DWR will actually be burning phragmites during the hunt this year. It will likely involve a couple of temporary closures (probably one-day closures) at the Farmington Bay and Ogden Bay WMAs.

It was too wet to burn this spring, and air-quality conditions haven't allowed us to burn this summer. We're hoping the weather will be more cooperative in the fall. If we get the green light to burn, there won't be a lot of notice (maybe 12 hours or so). We will be posting notices on Twitter (follow us at http://tr.im/uuV8), and we'll be putting together an FAQ page for the Web over the next few weeks. There will also be more information about this in the 2009-2010 Waterfowl guidebook and coming out via news releases/media efforts.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

The year-round burning option is the most progressive change in the fight to control phragmites in several years. It allows the DWR to take advantage of optimim burn conditions anytime they arise (and it doesn't happpen often). I'm completely in favor of closing down a unit for a day during the season if it allows the DWR to get their burn done. There is also a terrific upside to getting a burn in the fall...after a few weeks it starts turning an emerald greeen with new vegetation and birds LOVE IT! Once again, the DWR has the best interest of the marsh in mind!
R


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## wayner33 (Dec 11, 2007)

I own property on the South Shore of East Bay. Utah Lake is on my property most of the time. I used a Dr field and brush mower(like big lawn mower) when the lake iced over. I cut a 2 acre opening and only 20% has grown back. On the entrance to the opening which is only big enough for my boat, I sprayed it with roundup when it started to grow back and it has stayed clean. I have caught some nice catfish in the opening and hope to harvest some ducks this fall. I did this on private property so it should be within the law. Cutting the phrag in the winter on the ice is easy because it is dry or dead above the ice. Burning on the ice would be good also. Then just spray what comes back for a couple of years.


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