# 2020 Utah Big Game Application Guidebook



## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

It's online:
https://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2020_biggameapp.pdf


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You would of thought that they would of highlighted the rule changes such as surrendering a tag and loosing your bonus points. 

But both of those items are in there you just need to look for them, but it may catch some off guard.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Or that we have to apply before we even know if there will actually be tags?


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## TPrawitt91 (Sep 1, 2015)

Vanilla said:


> Or that we have to apply before we even know if there will actually be tags?


When you say it out loud it makes even less sense.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Vanilla said:


> Or that we have to apply before we even know if there will actually be tags?


Just normal for the draw.

You should hear all the complaining that is going on for the Wyoming elk draw now. It has been changed where the draw doesn't happen until well after the application period is and after the range counts.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Just because it’s normal doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. 

As long as this practice is in place, I will call it what it is: plain stupid.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Critter said:


> You would of thought that they would of highlighted the rule changes such as surrendering a tag and loosing your bonus points.
> 
> But both of those items are in there you just need to look for them, but it may catch some off guard.


Is there any place on the dwr web site that lists the changes for the upcoming year since they don't highlight them in the book?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Not that I know of but then I haven't looked.

You might try the news section but the big changes are the tag returns and bonus points which can be found in the book or online, I think page 26

The changes are towards the bottom

https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah-wildlife-news/818-deer-management-plan-hunt-drawing.html


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

rtockstein said:


> Is there any place on the dwr web site that lists the changes for the upcoming year since they don't highlight them in the book?


It seems pretty clear to me. It's on page #2 of the guidebook under "What's New" and continues onto page #3.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

ridgetop said:


> It seems pretty clear to me. It's on page #2 of the guidebook under "What's New" and continues onto page #3.


It's actually pages #3 & #4 (They're apparently counting the cover as page #1.). In addition, they are now putting that information throughout the book where appropriate with *New this year:* notices and some other bold wording. Will some hunters miss all of that? Of course, just like they always do since so many of them typically don't bother to read the book or read it just casually. It's easier just to ask someone else!


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> It's actually pages #3 & #4 (They're apparently counting the cover as page #1.). In addition, they are now putting that information throughout the book where appropriate with *New this year:* notices and some other bold wording. Will some hunters miss all of that? Of course, just like they always do since so many of them typically don't bother to read the book or read it just casually. It's easier just to ask someone else!


I was referring to the PDF pages but now we have both covered.;-)

Unfortunately there's too many people asking others that are giving them the wrong info. that they received from someone else.

Now go repeat this last sentence to someone and have them repeat it to someone five times over and then see how the wording comes out. Probably not very close.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

ridgetop said:


> Now go repeat this last sentence to someone and have them repeat it to someone five times over and then see how the wording comes out. Probably not very close.


x1000.

I would consider a lot of us highly involved and it took 5+ page convo to confirm what you lose points for. And that was people who had watched the board vote!


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

Comprehension isn't about hearing what you wish they said. 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I got caught up in looking at the Contents that I didn't see the Whats New right next to it.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> Or that we have to apply before we even know if there will actually be tags?


It was a later draw for many years.
The plus was knowing the number of permits before applying.

The down fall was results was out so late us bow hunters got screwed on scouting time and not knowing were we where hunting til literally 3 weeks before the season started.

And I do get what you guys are sayin about condescending the time line on the draw. They could definitely do it quicker these days.

Im expecting, and hearing of permits being cut across the board.
Deer and elk numbers way down.
Hunter complaints.
And hunter satisfactions down on many LE hunts.

The Henrys and Paunsy remain solid. But those are the only 2 I know of.

Places like the Bookcliffs were tag cuts could be massive.

I can see where the point systems are going to get much worse......
The creep is going to get much worse than it already is....

Bad situation for sure.


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> It was a later draw for many years.
> The plus was knowing the number of permits before applying.
> 
> The down fall was results was out so late us bow hunters got screwed on scouting time and not knowing were we where hunting til literally 3 weeks before the season started.
> ...


No, no, no goofy...it says right here...https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah...or-the-upcoming-general-season-deer-hunt.html

_Utah Division of Wildlife Resources biologists estimate that there are just over 370,000 mule deer in Utah, which is about 100,000 additional deer than were in the state in 2011.

"Over the last three years, we've had the highest deer numbers in Utah in 25 years," DWR big game coordinator Covy Jones said. "We have more bucks on the statewide landscape currently than we've ever had."_

It's all good Randy, Utah big game hunting is all rainbows, lolipops, and dreams come true! Fill up yer glass just a lil more buddy, and smile!8)


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

elkfromabove said:


> ridgetop said:
> 
> 
> > It seems pretty clear to me. It's on page #2 of the guidebook under "What's New" and continues onto page #3.
> ...


I see now... I asked this question before reading the application guidebook. It is pretty clear!


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

That news letter has taken some extreme heat.
So many hunters calling BS it's UNREAL..

Wana go a side bet on whats about to fo down Perry?


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> It was a later draw for many years.
> The plus was knowing the number of permits before applying.
> 
> The down fall was results was out so late us bow hunters got screwed on scouting time and not knowing were we where hunting til literally 3 weeks before the season started.
> ...


I'm excited to see several new LE deer opportunities. I'm thinking the LE deer point creep might slow down for awhile.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> It was a later draw for many years.
> The plus was knowing the number of permits before applying.
> 
> The down fall was results was out so late us bow hunters got screwed on scouting time and not knowing were we where hunting til literally 3 weeks before the season started.
> ...


I already showed last year how they can get the draw done and posted within the same timeline they are using today, and that was even with a very conservative timeline on how long the draw process would take. There is zero reason the application period could not close on May 10th every year and still have results done by May 25th ever year. Zero reason whatsoever.

As for deer numbers: where is Lonetree?


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## stillhunterman (Feb 15, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> That news letter has taken some extreme heat.
> So many hunters calling BS it's UNREAL..
> 
> Wana go a side bet on whats about to fo down Perry?


LOL... taking a bet on how or what Utah's DWR/Wildlife Board is going to do in any given year is a succors bet, as you well know. He!! we've all seen them cut tags when biologically speaking it was not needed at all, and then turn around and issue way more tags than they should have in another year. Nope, wouldn't touch that bet with a ten foot fly rod!;-)

My post above was more than a bit facetious, probably bordering flippant. I know the heat that press release took, and in a few cases probably justified. It was a crazy year that's for sure. I have a hunch some northern, eastern and even a southern zone or two will see some tag decreases, but I doubt it will be substantial. But who knows, it's Utah man! Hope you have a great Christmas goofy!


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

goofy elk said:


> The Henrys and Paunsy remain solid. But those are the only 2 I know of.


Depends on your definition. Hard not to be "solid" when you manage for 6.5 year old deer, highest B ratios in the state(probably as high as anywhere in the west), and only issue ~50 tags lol.



ridgetop said:


> I'm excited to see several new LE deer opportunities. I'm thinking the LE deer point creep might slow down for awhile.


Tag re-allocation and a handful of GS tags going to late season hunts likely won't make a dent, will it? Especially since they cut tag numbers so they can grow em big.

My guess would be the 30 day turn in, which results in about 350 un-allocated tags a year will help. Still tiny in comparison to totals but that's the largest impact they have made towards LE/OIAL.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Isn't a successes rate of about 35% what the DWR suggests as acceptable for most hunters? Below that and they get a lot of complaints.

Too bad that the 10% who are successful are screwing it up for the rest.


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> It was a later draw for many years.
> The plus was knowing the number of permits before applying.
> 
> The down fall was results was out so late us bow hunters got screwed on scouting time and not knowing were we where hunting til literally 3 weeks before the season started.
> ...


FULL RANDOM DRAW!!!!!! (I can never resist the urge.)


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> I already showed last year how they can get the draw done and posted within the same timeline they are using today, and that was even with a very conservative timeline on how long the draw process would take. There is zero reason the application period could not close on May 10th every year and still have results done by May 25th ever year. Zero reason whatsoever.
> 
> As for deer numbers: where is Lonetree?


Seeing as the window closed and I already won that bet, I've been waiting for him to pay up on the 'everything he owned' 

Hmm, goofy, what are the parameters and terms that you have in mind? I may be interested in taking a wager . . .


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

MH
I raised cain years ago just as you are now about the point 'system'.

Then I found how to take advantage of it and drew A PILE of permits!

Those days are over.
And for the sake of the younger generation.

I mow have to say,
FUll RANDOM DRAW!


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

JC
I'm betting 10% GS Deer permit cuts on 2/3 of the units .
LE deer tag cuts on the Bookcliffs.

LE elk cuts on the Bookcliffs and Wasatch (finally)


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

goofy elk said:


> JC
> I'm betting 10% GS Deer permit cuts on 2/3 of the units .
> LE deer tag cuts on the Bookcliffs.
> 
> LE elk cuts on the Bookcliffs and Wasatch (finally)


Hmmm....hmmm...that is interesting for sure. Just kind of right on the line of plausible/overreaching. Definitely not a slam dunk bet on either side IMO.

So, you thinking 3 separate bets: 
(A) at least a 10% tag cut on GS Deer permits on at least 2/3 of the units (ie, even if total tags statewide decrease by +10%, but greater than 1/3 of the total units have a less than 10% decrease it would not count; 
(B) LE deer tag cuts on Bookcliffs (assuming total tags across all seasons; ie 1 fewer total tags in 2020 than 2019 would count)
(C) LE elk cuts on both Bookcliffs and Wasatch (total tags across all seasons for each unit, and both units must have a decrease of at least 1 tag; ie Bookcliffs goes down by 50% but Wasatch stays the same would not count)

OR

A, B, and C would have to occur for you to win?

And what stakes are we thinking? Money? Toys? Acts of humiliation?

I think A is a tough bar to meet. B, is plausible and considerably less attractive to take than A. C is somewhere in between A and B I think. If the bet is on A, B, and C occurring or nothing then my interest is considerably more piqued


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Gezzzz
Way to complicate it!^^^^^^^^^^
LOL


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> Gezzzz
> Way to complicate it!^^^^^^^^^^
> LOL


Everything spelled out clearly in writing. Close all loop holes (except the ones you want). This is what he does!

Good work Johnny. Good work. Don't charge me for 6 minutes for reading this.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Everything spelled out clearly in writing. Close all loop holes (except the ones you want). This is what he does!
> 
> Good work Johnny. Good work. Don't charge me for 6 minutes for reading this.


Sorry Vanillabean, the firm has a minimum .3 billable charge. That's gonna be 18 mins


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## MadHunter (Nov 17, 2009)

goofy elk said:


> MH
> I raised cain years ago just as you are now about the point 'system'.
> 
> Then I found how to take advantage of it and drew A PILE of permits!
> ...


I knew I liked you for a reason! :smile:


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> Sorry Vanillabean, the firm has a minimum .3 billable charge. That's gonna be 18 mins


Of course it does. Let's make it an even 36 minutes!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Of course it does. Let's make it an even 36 minutes!


If you had waited until tomorrow... Sure. But no, now you are gonna actually make me use the full 18 minutes aren't you?!


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Yes! 

You should bet goofy. I think he will probably win on the Book Cliffs elk tag reduction, maybe even the Satch (although I don’t 100% believe that one). I don’t see anyway the general deer tags are reduced as far as he stated they would be.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Vanilla said:


> Yes!
> 
> You should bet goofy. I think he will probably win on the Book Cliffs elk tag reduction, maybe even the Satch (although I don't 100% believe that one). I don't see anyway the general deer tags are reduced as far as he stated they would be.


Which is why I want to know if it's a package deal or is it 3 separate bets!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

If you obtain a general-season any legal
weapon deer permit, you may use archery
tackle to archery hunt the unit listed on your
permit from Aug. 15–Sept. 11, 2020.
If you haven’t harvested a deer by the time
the archery season ends, you may hunt the
same unit during the general muzzleloader and
general any legal weapon deer seasons—including the early-season hunt, if it’s offered on your unit—using the appropriate
equipment. (See the box to the right for details.)
You also have the option of using archery
tackle to hunt in the extended archery areas as
soon as they are open to hunting. Just be sure to
complete the archery ethics course.

Is this a new thing for this year? GS Deer permits are automatically multi-season permits. Kind of takes some of the appeal out of the DH program, except for being guaranteed a tag for 3 years in a row.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

That is for youth hunters kinekilla


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Sounds like the youth any weapon tag. I doubt it is for adults but I've been wrong before..


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

My apologies, I now see it says "Opportunities for Young Hunters"

The organization of this book always confuses me....


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

About when does the print version hit the shelf?totp


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

olibooger said:


> About when does the print version hit the shelf?totp


Now!


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