# Gun safes and a fire



## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Here's an interesting video about gun safes after a fire. 
His final conclusions are good but I still believe a good fireproof safe is a MUST for every home. I personally keep a small fireproof document safe in my gun safe where I keep my most important doc's (and other valuable paper items) and jewelry.
Although he does show how easy it is to get into a gun safe, I believe the chances of having a burglar bring all the necessary tools, and spent all the time needed to actually "break into" your safe are slim.
Enjoy:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> I personally keep a small fireproof document safe in my gun safe where I keep my most important doc's


Ditto, small fireproof box inside a safe for documents. Also, fire rating in a safe usually comes down to how many layers of sheetrock there are inside the box. You can remove your carpet lining and add as much as you want to sides, floor and roof (doors can be tricky with the locking mechanisms), then spray adhesive to reattach carpet.

Safe placement is also a big deal. Heat rises, as does fire. So a basement is better than a 2nd floor of a home. Consider pooling water issues however in basements.

My dad made a living as a general contractor working for a major insurance company doing fires, floods etc etc. We saw alot of burnt safes. Moisture is a bigger factor than the heat in most cases I've seen. I'd make sure the fire dept opens or breaks a window closest to the safe to start venting moisture. Hopefully you can get in and open the safe as soon as possible.

-DallanC


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## twinkielk15 (Jan 17, 2011)

Any recommendations on this? I have been looking at them as well. I have a Liberty gun safe and would love to add a small fireproof/waterproof doc box. What are you guys using?


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm of the belief that in the case of a fire, the water will cause more damage to items inside the safe than the fire will. Could be wrong. Especially if the ammo and extra powder ignites inside....Ka-Boooom!

I use something similar to this.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRIS-Weath...Quart-Clear-Tote-with-Latching-Lid/1001723862

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


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## twinkielk15 (Jan 17, 2011)

KineKilla said:


> I'm of the belief that in the case of a fire, the water will cause more damage to items inside the safe than the fire will. Could be wrong.
> 
> I use something similar to this.
> 
> ...


You know, I've heard more than one firefighter say that same thing. Still I like the peace of mind of something that does both. Amazon has a little .65 cf one that is both waterproof and fireproof for $60.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Hmmmm its a good idea to waterproof documents inside a safe. I think we'll put our documents inside a large ziplock bag, inside the fireproof box, inside the safe. That should give 2 hours of burn protection, with water protection on top of that (any plastic will melt given enough heat though). 

Luckily I'm like 4 blocks from the fire station... any fire should be out in a very short amount of time.

-DallanC


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I just use a little one like this
https://www.officedepot.com/a/produ...C7:17h4h7dc6?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc
You can get them everywhere always pretty cheap


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Luckily I'm like 4 blocks from the fire station... any fire should be out in a very short amount of time.
> 
> -DallanC


When I was living in Price a building right across the street from the fire department burned to the ground before it was under control.

And it wasn't that big of a building, single level around 2000-3000 sq feet.


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## shaner (Nov 30, 2007)

Anyone old like me remember the WJ firestaion on 2700 W catching on fire.
Ironic.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

shaner said:


> Anyone old like me remember the WJ firestaion on 2700 W catching on fire.
> Ironic.


Kinda like a Dentist hating to go to a Dentist.

I have three Liberty safes and it was a pain moving them while painting! Used pvc pipe and it worked. I've been contemplating building a "vault room" that would have the ventilation, moisture barrier, temp control, waterproofing etc. then having a heavy vault door built for access into the room.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> I have three Liberty safes and it was a pain moving them while painting! Used pvc pipe and it worked.


I empty a safe, open the door and use the weight of the door to rock the safe from one corner to the other... i've been able to move them around very easily. some guys rock them around on a golf ball.



> I've been contemplating building a "vault room" that would have the ventilation, moisture barrier, temp control, waterproofing etc. then having a heavy vault door built for access into the room.


If I ever build a new house, I'm going to do the floating suspended garage floor. I've kicked around using the space under that for a both a short pistol range and a vault area. Just have to make sure to create access to run adequate ventilation.

-DallanC


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I was thinking of digging out a 12X20' area next to the house foundation in the back corner of the house. Footings, foundation walls and floor with rebar and pour a suspended concrete slab for the top. Cut a door way into it from the home foundation and have the vault door built to fit the opening. I'd add an addition to the top of it for the ventilation piping. That way if powder goes "BOOM" it has a relief for the pressure.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

taxidermist said:


> I'd add an addition to the top of it for the ventilation piping. That way if powder goes "BOOM" it has a relief for the pressure.


How much powder are you planning on storing?

I might have to do a experiment this coming summer by taking some old powder that I no longer use and place it into a fire and see just what happens. I'm thinking that with the bottles being made of plastic now that they would melt before the powder cooked off and then the powder would just fizzle as it burned. That is except for black powder or a black powder substitute. But even then I think that the bottle would melt and it all would go at once but not like a shot but more like if you just dumped it into the fire.

On the home vault, I watched one being built in a home next to a friends. The walls were a combination of reinforced concrete, cinder blocks, and steel. He then had a 4'x7' reinforced vault door that opened up into his basement. The room itself was around 12'x 12' with a 8' ceiling.

Once done he stored quite a few firearms in it and then shortly after that he opened up a pawn shop. He no longer lives in the area but I need to go check it out and see what the new owner is using it for.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

If a person has enough $$$ to put in a vault, they should put in a C02 Fire suppression system. No moisture to hurt weapons... put out any fire quickly. Kind of pricy though.

-DallanC


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

DallanC said:


> If a person has enough $$$ to put in a vault, they should put in a C02 Fire suppression system. No moisture to hurt weapons... put out any fire quickly. Kind of pricy though.
> 
> -DallanC


Off the shelf marine engine room fire suppression systems are an easy alternative. We use the 3M Novatec 1230 fluid on some of our vessel systems. About $7K for a 1000 cu ft space.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

How much powder are you planning on storing?

There was a thread about storing powder and how much you can have before needing a "proper storage facility" not to long ago. I have an itty bitty tinny bit of powder. 8)

I wouldn't think rifle/pistol powder would explode without being in a container that is air tight, or has very little area for expansion. Black powder and the like burn fast and are the ones I'd worry about. I've disposed of powder that have ran their life cycle by burning in an open pit. It doesn't go boom, just burns with a little smoke and a colored flame.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I usually sprinkle unused/old powder into the flower garden, the nitrogen in it is a great fertilizer.


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