# Recommend a new MZ?



## LanceS4803

I am in need of a new MZ. 
The problems with the Traditions Vortek I've had for 9 years continue to stack up, and I am done with them.
The Remington UML looks interesting, but is HEAVY; 8.5lbs for just the base rifle. The CVA Accura seems to fit the bill.

Looking for accuracy, good quality, good customer support. No smokeless., of course
Recommendations?


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## Critter

I won a CVA Accura last year and used it to take my Utah ML buck last fall. It is a great shooting rifle. Take down for cleaning is easy also, just unscrew the breach plug. It came with a Leupold scope on it and there are no external sights so it is limited in the number of states that I can use it for ML hunts. But when I sighted it in it was quite accurate out to 200 yards, which is as far as I shot it. I broke the forearm where the sling swivel mounts when I was sighting it in. A quick email to CVA customer service, a couple of photos sent and I had a new forearm in the mail to me. I just have to remember if shooting off of bags to place that sling swivel forward of the bags. 

I also have a Thompson Center Triumph that is quite nice also. It has front and rear sights which makes it legal in my home state of Colorado. I shoot 250 and 300 grain Thor bullets out of it and it is as accurate as far as I can see with open sights. I haven't dealt with their customer service since they sold out to S&W but it should be no problems.


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## brisket

I’ve been happy with my Accura V2. No experience with the Remington.


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## weaversamuel76

I have both a knight ultra lite and the new cva paramount pro. Accuracy is pretty good in the knight and it's joy to pack around. My CVA Paramount Pro will shoot single hole groups at 200 is moa at 300 and holds 10" to 12" at 500 yards. There's plenty of rifles out there that don't produce that kind of accuracy. It's heavier but shoots loads of 105gr by wieght of blackhorn 209 which would be less fun to shoot in a ultra lite muzzleloader. Of course the downside is a hefty purchase price tag and need of a quality scope. 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## DallanC

I shoot the older Remington 700ML, but I did the badger ridge bolt mod kit on it. Its a lovely rifle. Killed a crapton of animals with it.

My son bought a used 700ML, killed a couple things with it. He just bought a Accura and would be willing to sell his 700ML (stainless steel / black stock). 

Accura's seem to be the bomb though as far as new rifles.

-DallanC


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## middlefork

I've been happy with my Accura but I'm far from an expert.


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## taxidermist

CVA, T/C Pro hunter, White, Austin/Hallek are what I have in my arsenal for ML rifles. They fit my liking and are accurate.


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## silentstalker

I have an Accura MR and it is awesome. Light to carry, accurate, and points well. Easy to take apart and clean.


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## 7mm Reloaded

I love my Knight Bighorn glad I bought back when they were 300.00 bucks though:shock:


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## waspocrew

I'd give the CVA Accura MR a good look. Good reports and easy to take care of. 

I've been out of the muzzy game for a few years, but have had excellent results with CVA in the past.


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## Irish Lad

TC Pro Hunter FX. Love mine.


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## RandomElk16

I have a TC Encore Endeavor. It's basically the Pro Hunter XT. 

A lot of their high end have the same barrels and basic elements though. I have been a big TC fan.


Dad shoots an Accura V2 and the thing is solid. We shot CVA my whole life and they were... whatever. The new era though of the Accura V2, MR, and even the Optima V2 are all fine firearms!


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## DallanC

RandomElk16 said:


> I have a TC Encore Endeavor. It's basically the Pro Hunter XT.
> 
> A lot of their high end have the same barrels and basic elements though. I have been a big TC fan.


Ya, TC made good stuff and had great customer service.



> Dad shoots an Accura V2 and the thing is solid. We shot CVA my whole life and they were... whatever. The new era though of the Accura V2, MR, and even the Optima V2 are all fine firearms!


Thats a good way to put it. CVA had "chapters" in their history... the worst was when they made MLs with the Damascus steel ... those would explode at times (was later found there was corrosion between the layers). They stuck with it, improved... and the current chapter has them (IMO) top of the market in terms of quality. Good for them... they went from being know as the MLs for people who cant afford great guns... to being the maker of the Best guns.

I used to strongly dislike CVA... now I am extremely impressed with them, to the point my next gun will be an Accura.

-DallanC


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## LanceS4803

Thanks much!
So far it is looking like the CVA Accura Plains Rifle (same barrel length as my current rifle, which has never been a problem) or the White Mountaineer.


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## Raptorman

This year leading up to my deer hunt I spent a ton of range time with the RUM. it shot great. After hunting with it for a couple of days though, I found myself going back to my trusty Accura V2. Much lighter and easy to pack around. I got the gun dialed in back in 2016 for an elk hunt and every time I pull it out it still hits in the same spot. I am convinced there is no better gun on the market for the money.


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## Raptorman

Raptorman said:


> This year leading up to my deer hunt I spent a ton of range time with the RUM. it shot great. After hunting with it for a couple of days though, I found myself going back to my trusty Accura V2. Much lighter and easy to pack around. I got the gun dialed in back in 2016 for an elk hunt and every time I pull it out it still hits in the same spot. I am convinced there is no better gun on the market for the money.


I shoot two T7 Mag pellets behind a Barnes TMZ 290 and that thing is lethal.


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## JuddCT

Raptorman said:


> I shoot two T7 Mag pellets behind a Barnes TMZ 290 and that thing is lethal.


I have the Accura V2 as well and shoot 6.1 grams of blackhorn 209 behind 250 gr Thompson center schockwaves and it took down my wife's elk one shot at 70 yards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cow caller 4

700 ml 300 yards very accurate


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## LanceS4803

Cow caller 4 said:


> 700 ml 300 yards very accurate


Another guy was using this rifle. Took a bull at 330yds. Said it was accurate to 500.


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## DallanC

My primary gun is a Remington 700ML with the Badger Ridge bolt nose modification. No way in hell I would attempt a 300 yard shot on a living animal.

-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter

I use a TC Omega and LOVE it. They don't make them any more but sometimes you can find them on the Trading Post Forum. 

What's not to love about this beauty?----SS


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## LanceS4803

It's nice to see people still shooting MZs they have had for years. Unlike what some companies want us to believe, they are NOT disposable rifles that you replace every 3 to 4 years.


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## Lone_Hunter

One lesson I learned is that as CVA furniture goes, if you want camo, just rattlecan the cheaper black stock yourself. The extra money you spend on a camo stock isn't worth it. It will start rubbing off in two seasons.


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## Critter

LanceS4803 said:


> It's nice to see people still shooting MZs they have had for years. Unlike what some companies want us to believe, they are NOT disposable rifles that you replace every 3 to 4 years.


The same can be said about bows and high power rifles.

How may bow hunters do you know that buy a new bow ever few years because it is new and improved?

One thing that I see with muzzle loaders is that if you hunt out of state you really need a different one than the one that you hunt Utah with. My CVA Accura is designated for Utah and other states that allow muzzle loaders to have scopes, it doesn't have any other sights on it. My TC Renegade is for those states that require a side lock muzzle loader, and then my TC Triumph is for states that allow in lines but iron sights only.

But I do believe that I have everything covered now and won't pick up anymore muzzle loaders.


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## DallanC

Critter said:


> But I do believe that I have everything covered now and won't pick up anymore muzzle loaders.


-1

There is always room in the safe for 1 more gun. 

-DallanC


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## taxidermist

One thing that I see with muzzle loaders is that if you hunt out of state you really need a different one than the one that you hunt Utah with.

I use a .54 cal. T/C Black Mountain Magnum for the states that don't allow 209 ignition, scopes, and sabots. The problem I have now with aging eyes, is the ability to use open sights. The last time I used this rifle was back in 2002 on a WT hunt in Montana and took a Bull Elk in Utah with it. Very accurate after spending numerous days at the range with all kinds of load/projectile testing. Once I found what it wanted to eat, it was game on.


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## LanceS4803

taxidermist said:


> The problem I have now with aging eyes, is the ability to use open sights.


I've been thinking about this as well. From reading regs, and forum posts, it looks like peep sights are allowed to be used as "open sights". There are some nice ones out there that can really tighten up your groups.

Instead of having one rifle that you need to modify for western states, it really is cheaper to just get one ready for the more primitive rules states.


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## Critter

I too have the eye problem. My Thomson Center Renegades sights are just fine. They are large enough that I have no problem, but any others and I have a hard time focusing on three things at once. For those I went with peep sights which I learned to shoot with and work quite well.


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## 2full

I am retiring next week and my company is giving me a $1,000 budget for my retirement gift. 
First thing I thought of was a new muzzle loader. 
So I went back and went thru this thread to see what experiences others have had to decide which ones were the best guns. I've been shooting a Knight MK 95 .54 cal for years. It's a numbered Rocky Mountain Elk gun. (32/100). Have taken a lot of good animals with it. Been a good gun. 
Looks like the general consensus overall is the Accura V2. 

Now I'll have to see what one will run me cost wise, and what availability is. 
I'll want to put a scope on it for sure. 

Thanks to everyone for all the good info and opinions.


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## Critter

2full watch Mussle Loader.com. They usually have some good sales but they also have good prices to begin with.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/

.


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## 2full

Thanks Critter, interesting site. I learned a lot. 
I picked out the one I want.......but there isn't anything decent available right now.


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## 7mm Reloaded

2full said:


> I am retiring next week and my company is giving me a $1,000 budget for my retirement gift.
> First thing I thought of was a new muzzle loader.
> So I went back and went thru this thread to see what experiences others have had to decide which ones were the best guns. I've been shooting a Knight MK 95 .54 cal for years. It's a numbered Rocky Mountain Elk gun. (32/100). Have taken a lot of good animals with it. Been a good gun.
> Looks like the general consensus overall is the Accura V2.
> 
> Now I'll have to see what one will run me cost wise, and what availability is.
> I'll want to put a scope on it for sure.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for all the good info and opinions.


I'd stick with what works. I have a Knight bighorn and wouldn't buy anything else except maybe T/C. Good luck on your retirement


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## LanceS4803

I'm the OP, and have now received a beautiful Knight Ultra-Lite. Got the Colorado version with iron sights, but also drilled and tapped for a scope. Should be able to adapt for any western state now.
Plus, every part is made in the USA.


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## 7mm Reloaded

USA USA :usa2:


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## RemingtonCountry

Coming from a guy that has a CVA Accura V2 MR, T/C Omega, and a Knight Bighorn in his safe, I don't think that one can go wrong with any of them!


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## DallanC

Just wait till the masses figure out Muzzleloaders aren't considered "firearms" and therefore no paperwork on a purchase (excluding the Remington Ultimate and similar MLs). Once that happens expect a run on smoke poles... lol

-DallanC


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## 2full

I already have a Knight, a White, and a Thompson Renegade. Taken animals with each one. Like someone said earlier in the thread. What's one more in the gun safe ??
Might as well add another one......

Besides with the Knight,
I never upgraded the ignition system. So I have always had to pull the trigger a couple of times to get it to fire. Pain in the a$$ for sure. 

Cost me this deer one morning........but, it came thru a couple of mornings later.


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## 2full

I happened to be up North in the big city for a couple of days. I stopped in a sportsman's warehouse to look at muzzle guns and they had the one I wanted. The Cedar store did not have much to look at the other day. 
So.....I bought the Accrua V2 MR. 
They didn't have the scope I wanted. But, the Cedar store did. So, when I get home tomorrow I go in and see if they still have it. 
Now, I'll do some homework on what load to use. Always shot power belts in my Knight 54 cal. and they always worked great.


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## RemingtonCountry

2full said:


> I happened to be up North in the big city for a couple of days. I stopped in a sportsman's warehouse to look at muzzle guns and they had the one I wanted. The Cedar store did not have much to look at the other day.
> So.....I bought the Accrua V2 MR.
> They didn't have the scope I wanted. But, the Cedar store did. So, when I get home tomorrow I go in and see if they still have it.
> Now, I'll do some homework on what load to use. Always shot power belts in my Knight 54 cal. and they always worked great.


Congratulations! I love my MR. Blackhorn 209 with a 245 gr TMZ is accurate as can be for me!


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## DallanC

RemingtonCountry said:


> Congratulations! I love my MR. Blackhorn 209 with a 245 gr TMZ is accurate as can be for me!


My son loves your MR too 

-DallanC


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## 2full

So, I got back to Cedar and SW had sold the scope......but, they had a Burris that I liked so I had them put it on the rifle. Got it bore sighted and ready to go. 
Can't wait to get it dialed in and ready to hunt. 

Pretty dang nice retirement gift. My bosses are very good people. 
I'm going to miss the people I worked with, and MOST of the customers. 
But, I'm ready to be done and work on getting my health back in line. 
I need to study harder for my tests when I see the Doc so I can start passing some of them.


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## silentstalker

You will love that gun. I use Bh 209 and Hornady 300 gr XTP mags in mine and they are devastating on deer and elk.


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## Bhilly81

I have the older cva optima and the newer cva accura v2 lr I absolutely love them both. The v2 is quite a bit heavier but they both do shoot great and I took a deer two years ago with the optima at 120 yards and he only ran 50 yards at the most.


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## Corey

LanceS4803 said:


> I am in need of a new MZ.
> The problems with the Traditions Vortek I've had for 9 years continue to stack up, and I am done with them.
> The Remington UML looks interesting, but is HEAVY; 8.5lbs for just the base rifle. The CVA Accura seems to fit the bill.
> 
> Looking for accuracy, good quality, good customer support. No smokeless., of course
> Recommendations?





LanceS4803 said:


> I am in need of a new MZ.
> The problems with the Traditions Vortek I've had for 9 years continue to stack up, and I am done with them.
> The Remington UML looks interesting, but is HEAVY; 8.5lbs for just the base rifle. The CVA Accura seems to fit the bill.
> 
> Looking for accuracy, good quality, good customer support. No smokeless., of course
> Recommendations?


I got a cva Accura last year in stainless and went ahead and got the blackhorn breach plug to shoot blackhorn loose powder. 105gr behind federal trophy copper 270 bullets has been super accurate for me. Shot a nice blacktail with it and hope to do it again this year. Stock is very comfortable and grippy, easy to clean, the toolless breach plug is much nicer to use than the Remington genesis I was shooting before that. The Remington ultimate is real nice and I have a buddy who loves his, but the price is a bit much for me, plus the proprietary primers are not as cheap or always around, not that any primers are around now! If all I did was muzzleloader I guess I would’ve looked harder at it, but I’m very happy with the cva.


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