# hypothetical question



## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I have never been in this situation but have always wondered what the right thing to do would be.

you have a tag for an animal and it is in season. you're hunting in an area that has a lot of hikers and campers but it is a legal hunting area. you have no intention of hunting near the other folks who are enjoying the outdoors but after a long discouraging hunt you happen across a group of non-hunters who are watching an animal that you happen to have a tag for. theyve been enjoying watching this moose/elk/deer/bear/goat for a while and you show up with tag and gun in hand. obviously you want to have a successful end to your long hunt but are you willing to hunker down and take the shot in front of all those people enjoying watching the wildlife? even without the likely possibility of it being filmed and shared all over the web where you will be villainized or maybe even start a local media storm? it would be totally legal and you would be filling the tag you paid for? it wouldn't be as satisfying of a kill since you basically shot an animal someone else spotted but you had already worked extremely hard without success and you were now finally faced with the opportunity to bring home a trophy or fill your freezer but have to do so with everyone looking on in horror. has anyone ever been in a situation like that? I know I've had other hunters pull up and shoot the deer I've spotted from their vehicle while I was getting out and loading my rifle, but in this situation no one else is there to hunt. Just thought of this and was wondering what the ethics might be in this situation. It would be a tough call. It would be really tough to pass up the opportunity while it was there. maybe you could sit and wait for crowds to thin or move to a different vantage and try to shoot it when it moves from view of the crowd, but for the sake of this hypothetical question let's say this is the only chance you'd have. maybe a stupid question and probably something that will never come up for most hunters. just wondering what others thought.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Just me but I wouldn't shoot it


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

If its what I want I think I'd wait until they left, then come back to the area and look for it. I don't want to cause hurt feelers.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Not a big game hunter anymore,but in the day I would have passed.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

First, if a crowd is watching, likely you are on a road. Even if you wanted to, you would be in violation of the law should you shoot. I would join in with the crowd and enjoy the view. After they left, I might take a hike and see if I could find the animal, and make a *safe* shot.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Depends on the person - some don't care what others think. If it were a matter of eating or not, answer would be easy. Non-hunter doesn't necessarily mean anti-hunter. Viewing it with them and seeing how a conversation goes, might just allow you to get the pulse of the situation and they may think its cool that you're hunting. They may leave and then you can do your thing.

Hypothetically anyway...


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

I would pass on all accounts.


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## polarbear (Aug 1, 2011)

Here's a great example of what you're talking about.

http://www.carbontv.com/videos/ZsZjR5bjq3uyX0GXshHoCcp_PHySd392

I would pass. Pulling the trigger is nerve racking enough without people crying and calling you a murderer.


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

reminds me of the mt dell moose incident up parleys canyon years ago. personally I would probably pass not worth the fight after words. and watching an animal die can be gut wrenching for some people.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

My friend had the Timp goat tag a few years back. He hiked up the back side and shot a nice goat. On the pack out he got accosted several times on the trail by the tofu-fairy-farts. He said he was amicable the first few times, but by the time he was getting to the bottom, his patience and 55 year old legs had run out. He told one group where to stick it. Not something he's proud of but crap happens.-----SS


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Sometimes though the "opposition" needs to hear the real world of what people think of them. They can't always go through life being catered to so their feelings aren't hurt. 

That's part of the problem with how things are today. "They" don't have to get their feelings hurt but everyone else does.


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## Schleppy (Jul 16, 2008)

I would either wait for the crowd to move on or the animal and find it again.

Seeing an animal die for the first time can be hard for some people. My fiancé was a non- hunter, she saw me harvest a buck a couple years ago. It was a good shot and the buck went down quick but tried to get back up before expiring. It wasnt what she was expecting, Movies, TV and video games set the expectation that once shot, death is instant and relatively bloodless. Reality can be a little more violent. She still likes to go with me and wants to hunt though.

I would not want to make someone view it if it's not something they choose, especially children. 

Just my thoughts and reasoning...


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I would pass to prevent the PR nightmare that would be sure to follow. Hunting is not about the kill anyways. If the hunting was tough and that was the only animal I had seen I would move areas. Anywhere that crowded does not suit me.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I think the biggest factor for me would be the cheapness of stumbling onto a group that had seen the animal first and just shooting it. If I were on a trail or ridge and spotted an animal but hikers showed up as I was getting ready to shoot, I would not think twice about shooting. I have never seen a lot of hikers or campers while hunting but I was thinking of a goat hunter I saw on Timp once. There were lots of hikers and lots of goats. This guy flew up the trail past everyone. He was hustling. I talked with him a minute before he took off up ahead. Didn't see him again but I was curious bout how it would all go down with the combination of goats and hikers and him having a oial tag.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I shot a deer a couple of years ago that ran down the mountain and right to a paved road where several people were watching. I followed after the deer and made my way to the road. The deer was laying about 20 yards off the road where I dispatched it with another shot. I warned people ahead of time what I was doing and gave them a chance to leave if they chose to do so, nobody left. After the deer was dispatched they were bringing their kids to the deer to get photos ,and there were no negative comments or attitudes. Under other circumstances I would not shoot an animal that others were viewing for pleasure.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

That's an awfully long, detailed, and specific 'hypothetical.' That's what I think!

Honestly, I can't even imagine being in this situation. I don't know if I've ever seen a group of 'non-hunters' while big game hunting, let alone a big group just out watching animals. As specific as you describe it, I'd pass. But again, I can't imagine rolling up on a big group of non-hunters checking out an animal I have a tag for unless like was said before, if you're just driving down the road. And no, I wouldn't just drive up, jump out, and shoot something in front of a bunch of other people.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Pick any canyon along the Wasatch Front and this is a very likely scenario. I've had mountain bikers come flying down ridge trails that sane people don't hike during the deer hunt. Hikers and sight seers wandering around oblivious that there was a hunting season happening. These didn't happen next to a paved road. Some were more than 3 miles from the end of the road. Others as I was returning to my truck from a long stroll through the woods. Not everyone has the time, or physical ability to hike miles to a secluded honey hole. Sometimes we can only find an afternoon to sneak into a hidden canyon close to home. These have been some of my most successful hunts. Sneaking into a hidden place not far off of the beaten track can give you a shot (pun intended) at some really nice animals that "real hunters" never get a chance to see. I like to hunt them year round with the Nikon.
And to answer your hypothetical question, no, I wouldn't shoot with an audience. Unless they told me to. Which they have. And I did.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah. I could've just asked if any would shoot an animal in front of non hunters but would've had to bounce around all kinds of different combinations of qualifiers and circumstances. Could be on a road, trail, ridge ect. "Group" could be two people standing off the edge of trail. Was trying to be specific so as to focus situation on the one decision of whether or not you sacrifice your last chance of filling your tag after giving your all on a long hunt. Was trying to focus the situation on a definitive "shoot now or tag soup" scenario but not many plausible situations where that is at stake for the sake of non hunters. Seems like everyone agrees on not to shoot. Some respectful folk on this page. I couldn't just show up n shoot. Maybe if I hadnt seen any subarus parked at the trailhead that morning I might engage the onlookers in friendly chit chat. 
Overall I don't see many nonhunters when I'm out. I don't have 4x4 though, so I have to hike my butt off to get away from crowds and sometimes due to time constraints it's Do.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks loke. Well said


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

35whelen said:


> Yeah. I could've just asked if any would shoot an animal in front of non hunters but would've had to bounce around all kinds of different combinations of qualifiers and circumstances. Could be on a road, trail, ridge ect. "Group" could be two people standing off the edge of trail. Was trying to be specific so as to focus situation on the one decision of whether or not you sacrifice your last chance of filling your tag after giving your all on a long hunt. Was trying to focus the situation on a definitive "shoot now or tag soup" scenario but not many plausible situations where that is at stake for the sake of non hunters. Seems like everyone agrees on not to shoot. Some respectful folk on this page. I couldn't just show up n shoot. Maybe if I hadnt seen any subarus parked at the trailhead that morning I might engage the onlookers in friendly chit chat.
> Overall I don't see many nonhunters when I'm out. I don't have 4x4 though, so I have to hike my butt off to get away from crowds and sometimes due to time constraints it's Do.


What's wrong with having a Subaru?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

30-06-hunter said:


> What's wrong with having a Subaru?


Nothing if you're a lesbian.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

Hahaha


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

I would shoot and then worry about finding someone a tissue or dodging rocks later.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

martymcfly73 said:


> Nothing if you're a lesbian.


Does Bruce Jenner drive a subaru? I mean c'mon, he's been a lesbian trapped in a man's body all his life....right? :shock:


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

3arabians said:


> I would shoot and then worry about finding someone a tissue or dodging rocks later.


I think you make a good point. After all, it is HUNTING season and these people are in areas people are allowed to legally HUNT. So what do you expect? I'm not sure what I would do but if they were no where near the line of fire and everything was legal I might just fire off just to P!ss them off. I don't mind people watching wildlife and I love to watch wildlife myself but when hunting season rolls around then the watchers need to expect to see hunters and wild game being harvested. To me it's nothing different than when I used to duck hunt back in Louisiana and jackwagons would come park their boats 100 yards away and fish, scaring away any ducks that would be willing to come my way. I usually gave them a nice loud shout verbal warning and if that didn't work then I fired up high so the pellets would land close to them but not on them. Usually the one shot would make them pull up stakes and go find another spot.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm not sure if Utah has a law like this or not, but in Alaska for example, whoever is "using" the wildlife first aka photography, sightseeing, or hunting has a protected right to finish their use before someone can interfere with it. That would mean if you came across nonhunters looking at an animal you wanted to hunt, either they or the animal would have to move off before you could begin your stalk, otherwise you are interfering with their lawful use.


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## devobrodie (Feb 7, 2015)

We had a situation once where my brother had made a less than perfect shot on a deer in archery season after several miles and hrs. of tracking we found the deer had dropped down a steep hill and was now bedded up right along a hwy. To make it worse the hwy. had road work going on and there was a traffic stop directly in view of the area. We tried to time it so when they let the traffic go my brother got in close, but the buck was bedded in a thick stand of willows. I let him know when the cars started moving, he moved in and had to break branches to get a clear lane. He put one more in the buck, but with a last kick of adrenaline the buck busted through the willows, went across the river and right up to the hwy. By now there was more traffic, the buck went up the bank looked right at the driver of a big rig sitting in the stop. Turned around and went back in the river, lost his footing and went down stream. I went running down the river to see if I could find it, eventually found it dead under a root ball of a tree in the river. What a fiasco! We felt that we had to put it out of it's misery as soon as we could, just one heck of situation.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

LostLouisianian said:


> I think you make a good point. After all, it is HUNTING season and these people are in areas people are allowed to legally HUNT. So what do you expect? I'm not sure what I would do but if they were no where near the line of fire and everything was legal I might just fire off just to P!ss them off. I don't mind people watching wildlife and I love to watch wildlife myself but when hunting season rolls around then the watchers need to expect to see hunters and wild game being harvested. To me it's nothing different than when I used to duck hunt back in Louisiana and jackwagons would come park their boats 100 yards away and fish, scaring away any ducks that would be willing to come my way. I usually gave them a nice loud shout verbal warning and if that didn't work then I fired up high so the pellets would land close to them but not on them. Usually the one shot would make them pull up stakes and go find another spot.


Although most folks do not usually fish in the same areas as duck hunters, I'm pretty sure if you fired this close to most people you would be facing more than you would ever want to deal with. Fall fishing is a great time to be on the water for some folks and they have EVERY right to be where they are even if you are right next to them, so keep this in mind before you end up in a situation you can't get out of.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

30-06-hunter said:


> Although most folks do not usually fish in the same areas as duck hunters, I'm pretty sure if you fired this close to most people you would be facing more than you would ever want to deal with. Fall fishing is a great time to be on the water for some folks and they have EVERY right to be where they are even if you are right next to them, so keep this in mind before you end up in a situation you can't get out of.


Yes they do have every right to fish, I am not going to be responsible when I was there first and they decided to park their boat within peppering range. When there's 20,000+ acres to fish in and they come within shotgun range of a duck hunter that's just stupid beyond all comprehension.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

johnnycake said:


> I'm not sure if Utah has a law like this or not, but in Alaska for example, whoever is "using" the wildlife first aka photography, sightseeing, or hunting has a protected right to finish their use before someone can interfere with it. That would mean if you came across nonhunters looking at an animal you wanted to hunt, either they or the animal would have to move off before you could begin your stalk, otherwise you are interfering with their lawful use.


That's actually a pretty cool law and can see the purpose of it.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

LostLouisianian said:


> Yes they do have every right to fish, I am not going to be responsible when I was there first and they decided to park their boat within peppering range. When there's 20,000+ acres to fish in and they come within shotgun range of a duck hunter that's just stupid beyond all comprehension.


Yes, but you openly admitting on a public forum that you would intentionally fire close to them makes you look to be the bigger fool or offender, see my point?


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Openly questioning what's wrong with a Subaru on on a public forum does tend to make you look like the bigger fool.

Maybe LostLouisianian needs a disability waiver, that way he wouldn't have any competition during hunting season.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Actually I wasn't the one questioning about the Subaru it was 30-06 Hunter. Apology accepted in advance.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Interesting question to pose but I can see it as a totally reasonable scenario on the Wasatch for sure. For starters, there is some kind of big game hunting season on the Wasatch for about 4 months out of the year. And those four months are some of the best time of year to be in the mountains for anyone and as hunters, we can't expect everyone else to stay away from the amazing resource the mountains offer. Non-hunters get the same nurturing of the soul from spending time in the mountains as hunters do, and we need to respect that. And as much as the harvest is part of the hunt, I don't know a hunter that isn't excited at the spotting of any kind of big game animals at times that are out of season or without a tag. Appreciating wildlife is core to all hunting it seems.

So if I'm out hunting, and come across folks watching say the trophy moose I've been after, I personally could not kill it right in front of those just appreciating it. I may join them, watch it, and wait for the people to leave, and then pursue it as prey, but for me, I wouldn't say "Hey, watch me drop that moose in his tracks." Boom! 

But I'm not a OIL kind of hunter. I've never put in for, nor do I plan on putting in for any of the OIL tags. I don't fault those that do, but hunting the OIL animals just isn't my thing. 

But were the animal in sight a trophy class bull elk or deer, I still don't think I could shoot it with people watching that just wanted to enjoy nature.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

LostLouisianian, my snide remarks were for 30-06 hunter, not you. Sorry that was not clear.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Airborne said:


> LostLouisianian, my snide remarks were for 30-06 hunter, not you. Sorry that was not clear.


Oh OK I misunderstood....now about that disability. Actually I do have a problem and had an MRI on Friday. I will find out tomorrow evening what is wrong. It is not at all out the realm of possibilities that my hunting days could be over or seriously curtailed. I am hoping for the best and that whatever is wrong can be surgically fixed. At this point I can't even shoulder a firearm. The pain of simply putting it against my shoulder is unbearable much less firing it off. If it is something that is not fixable I'm going to try to shoot left handed and see if I can bear the pain of doing that. Currently I'm right handed. Right now it's even painful to try and drink anything by raising my right hand up to my mouth with a cup or glass. All I can say is getting older sucks.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

*BANG*

Then I'd yell over: "Hey, did you get that on film and can I have a copy???"

:mrgreen:


-DallanC


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

As for peppering someone intentionally with a shot-gun - get the wrong judge and that could be construed as attempted murder. 

Of course, get a judge that also duck hunts - might just let you go and invite you out to his secret duck pond as well.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

LostLouisianian, I am sorry about your health problems, I hope you get some good news and can recover quickly.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Airborne said:


> LostLouisianian, I am sorry about your health problems, I hope you get some good news and can recover quickly.


Thanks Air....I'm hoping its a torn rotator and that's nuts to hope for something like that. The other things it could be aren't very fixable. As my wife says....I'm in great shape....for someone who's 30 years older than me. ;-)


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Ya ditto, hope its something minor and easily fixable.


-DallanC


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## riptheirlips (Jun 30, 2008)

LostLouisianian said:


> Oh OK I misunderstood....now about that disability. Actually I do have a problem and had an MRI on Friday. I will find out tomorrow evening what is wrong. It is not at all out the realm of possibilities that my hunting days could be over or seriously curtailed. I am hoping for the best and that whatever is wrong can be surgically fixed. At this point I can't even shoulder a firearm. The pain of simply putting it against my shoulder is unbearable much less firing it off. If it is something that is not fixable I'm going to try to shoot left handed and see if I can bear the pain of doing that. Currently I'm right handed. Right now it's even painful to try and drink anything by raising my right hand up to my mouth with a cup or glass. All I can say is getting older sucks.


Your mother warned you about what was going to happen right. Seriously hope everything turns out you can continue to pursue some wildlife.


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## 35whelen (Jul 3, 2012)

I have had one negative experience with non hunters and it really wasn't bad and Icompletely understand why they reacted like they did. I shot a buck way back when they had the buck/bull combo in 07 I think. Basically I had a deer and elk tag and I could use both during elk hunt in northern unit. Some four wheelers rolled up n stopped to watch me from a trail away a few hundred yards off as I was dressing the buck. When I finished cutting up my deer and packing it back to my car a few hours later, the sheriff was waiting by my car. He asked to see my tag n left after I showed him the tag on the deer and the stub with the dates. I'm surprised sheriff came n not dwr. Long drive for the guy. Still don't blame the 4 wheelers for assuming I was shooting deer out of season. I think they only had that hunt the one year.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

If it is a legal shot, a legal weapon, in a legal area, at a legal animal...........BOOM.
_O\\


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

Not worth the headache from the few carebears that would inevitably be in the group of watchers. Also, today's teenage entitlement queens are a thing to behold. If you had to make two trips to your car you'd be lucky if it wasn't vandalized while you're gone because some 14-year-old saw a 27-year-old acting like a 12-year-old do something like that on Youtube.


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## Jedidiah (Oct 10, 2014)

30-06-hunter said:


> What's wrong with having a Subaru?


I drive the stereotypical white Subaru. It's always got my fishing tackle in it, sometimes my shotgun and it has carried home a hundred fish and dozens of birds for me in the last year. This year I'm going to strap a buck to the top. Each gallon of gas I put in it probably takes me 7 or 8 miles further than it does in a truck!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Jedidiah said:


> Not worth the headache from the few carebears that would inevitably be in the group of watchers. Also, today's teenage entitlement queens are a thing to behold. If you had to make two trips to your car you'd be lucky if it wasn't vandalized while you're gone because some 14-year-old saw a 27-year-old acting like a 12-year-old do something like that on Youtube.


True story:

Years back my dad drew OIL moose and got one, we had it in the back of the truck driving home on the freeway when a car raced up to us, moved side to side to look it over, a woman and several kids. They were quite animated. They dropped back and continued to follow us on the freeway, then off... all the way to my dads house and pulled up.

We totally expected a erratic anti-hunting rant and rave about killing a poor defenseless moose... but the lady marched right up and said "IS THAT A MOOSE???? Can my kids come get a closer look? Can they touch it?"

What I thought would be a totally negative confrontation turned out to be very positive. She wasnt a hunter, didnt ever care to be one, but was interested enough to follow us and get a closer looksee. IIRC she had moved here from out of state and didnt even know there were moose in Utah. In the end she thanked us and her and her kids went their way, thinking the entire event was really cool.

So, you really dont know how others are going to take seeing a animal shot. Alot will freak out, but you might be surprised at those who now get a chance to see one up close.

-DallanC


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## Duckking88 (Dec 7, 2009)

in 2012 when i shot my extended archery buck. i had a number of encounters with non hunters. on the way home we stopped at McDonalds. as we were quickly stuffing our faces. a man and a woman approached us. " I am assuming thats your deer in that truck?" she asked i thought oh here we go. but instead she was super supportive, she said she had never hunted but thought that my deer was awesome she even asked to take a picture. On the drive home i saw a wild range of emotions, guys raced up to me to give me thumbs up, one lady i passed was quite upset, she may have even been crying, another lady (driving a subaru) raced up on my bumper and i could see her wrighting something down in my rear view. all in all that experience was a good case study into how people reach to an animal that a hunter has killed.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Good stories front Dallan and D88. I've had similar experiences. One year with a nice 3×4 in the back of my truck I had a guy with his lady in the passenger seat drive right up next to me on I-15 giving me thumbs up and smiling ear to ear congratulating me on my success. Then i had my brother call me to tell how some lady in a SUV pulled up next to him flipping him the bird for pulling his camper and wearing his orange. She was so mad he was a deer hunter anf he didnt even have a deer. You never know what your going to get. Thats the hunters life i guess


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## manysteps (Sep 28, 2009)

No bad experiences came out of it, but you should have seen the brake lights hit as people passed us on the freeway with my truck stacked like this:


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## JuniorPre 360 (Feb 22, 2012)

I wish they would close off certain areas to the public when there's a hunting season. Just today I saw a grandma and two kids walking trails wearing red. This is during turkey season.


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