# "Sinkbox" & layout boats ?



## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

Just looking through the proc about sinboxes, sounds to me there would be a fine line between a sinkbox and a layout boat. Is a layout boat legal because it sits just barely out of the water? Not trying to start a pissin match, just a curious question.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

yes and you don't leave them out there.Watch out next year there will be a new law for the lay out boat hunters.


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## Jeff Bringhurst (May 20, 2009)

dkhntrdstn said:


> yes and you don't leave them out there.Watch out next year there will be a new law for the lay out boat hunters.


What will this law be?


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

What info do you have about a new law for layout hunters? I see nothing wrong with the tactic. The only law I could see that might be imposed would be to make the person in the layout boat wear a life jacket.

Sinkboxes are attached to the lake bottom with an anchoring device and the box is held down with only a few inches of the box actually sticking out of the water. They can tip and fill with water potentially drowning the hunter(s) sitting inside the box.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Bears Butt said:


> What info do you have about a new law for layout hunters? I see nothing wrong with the tactic. The only law I could see that might be imposed would be to make the person in the layout boat wear a life jacket.


I have heard that they are going to make them have light on them for when they are sitting out there in the dark.Then the tender boat can' keep the hunters bird on the boat with him.So the hunter has to have his bird in his layout boat. I think a life jacket is a good idea. Like I said this is some of the stuff I have heard. I don't think there will be to big of changes.We will just have to wait and see what happens.All of these is hear say right now.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

Bears Butt said:


> Sinkboxes are attached to the lake bottom with an anchoring device and the box is held down with only a few inches of the box actually sticking out of the water. They can tip and fill with water potentially drowning the hunter(s) sitting inside the box.


You just described a layout boat. The only difference between a sinkbox and layout boat that I can see is that a hunters head is above the water line in a layout while below in a sinkbox. BTW when is the last time a sinkbox citation was issued in Utah? If it is not enforced, is it really a law to be concerned about?


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

seems this argument comes up just about monthly...

So they don't want you to "PILE" our birds anymore?... big deal... layout boats has to be the most popular way to hunt divers.... yes it is newer to Utah but this style of hunting has been around for many years. there are many things that you could consider a sink box... coffin... when you dig it down and pile the mud up on the side..what is the diffrence? how about a pit? in a layout there is more than just you head sticking above the water line. the sinkbox law is so open to interpitation... I think it is a great way to hunt and nothing wrong with it.


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## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

What ever laws they make we will comply! I understand that they are not happy with the pile shots. I have talked with a few people who got tickets for having birds on the tender while out in the layout. Its an easy fix. Either pick up the bird and transport it back to the layout or designate a color to each hunter, write it down and put that color zip tie on the bird, or everytime you shoot a bird attach a paper with the species of bird and hunters license number on it. Its a pain in the butt, but it makes the co's job a little easier determining whos birds is whos.
The word sinkbox is defined as a box thats floating and anchored to the bottom which completely conceals the hunter below the water line. The sink boxes we have in utah are just basically a metal or wood box below the water line with a wooden sleave that is put around it then surrounded by mud so water doesnt come rappidly in, nothing different than a pit blind as it is not floating!
A layout boat does conceal a hunter but not beneath the water line. Layouts have been used since and before the market hunting days, i highly doubt they can or will change the law on that. Not sure a life jacket is going to save me in 2ft of water but if they make that the law then it looks like you will have to wear one at all times in every boat on every water, even float tubes, innertubing down the weber river etc etc etc. The light thing wouldnt be a bad idea to keep everyone involved safe, but then they would have to change all the boating laws for boats with no motor and under a certain length. They need to focus on the boats running under power without navigation lights first, imho.
If they do come up with new rules it will only be a slight pain in the rear that will cost a few bucks and a few minutes of your time. Just comply, the sky isnt falling, Just sayin!

DiverFreak


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

I guess the key part is "below the water line". The description in the Proc sounds just like a layout.

Your boats are awesome DiverFreak. Keep doin what you're doin. Sat at the launch and watched you guys a few times and it looks like a good time.


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

I have put some thought into the piling of birds problem that is being enforced. I will simply create/make a floating net that will be a few feet off the layout boat on the edge of the decoys. Then the guy in the tender simply will pick up the bird and deposit it in the floating net next to the gunner in the boat. Problem solved. I agree with Tony, simply comply and the sky is the limit!


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

diverfreak said:


> A layout boat does conceal a hunter but not beneath the water line.
> DiverFreak


A layout boat does conceal a good portion of the hunter beneath the water line. Just not the whole hunter. Almost all boats conceal part of a hunter beneath the surface. When you're standing in your John boat your feet are concealed beneath the surface of the water. My point being the sinkbox law doesn't apply to all other boats and doesn't apply to layouts or other types of sneakboats that leave all or part of the hunter above the surface of the water.

I doubt there will be any "new" laws, they will just change the way they're enforcing the current laws on the books. They are not going to require life vests just for layouts and they're not going to change the life vest rules on the books for all watercraft. *It is already a law that a self propelled watercraft must have a light on board if moving before daylight or after dark.* I've just never seen it enforced.


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Diver Freak all boat must have light on there boat no matter if you have a motor or night. The light thing is for safety reason.How hard is it to put a light on your lay out boat and when it light enough to hunt take it off and put it in side the lay out.easy fix there.No im not saying you can't pile the birds up. You just can't have it in the hunter birds in the tender boat.Like I said that just the stuff I have heard. so don't hold me to it.I don't have nothing against the lay boats. I know they have been around very a very long time.


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

The light required for a manually propelled watercraft does not have to be fixed to the craft. It can be as simple as a flashlight to shine in the direction of an oncoming vessel. I do a lot of float tubing after dark and kayaking before dawn, I use a simple LED headlamp. It has spared me from being run over by a boat at strawberry.

Here is a link to the current laws:
http://static.stateparks.utah.gov/docs/ ... lights.pdf


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

You guys are right, every few months someone gets this agrument started , you know who you are. I vaugely remember this coming up at the RAC meeting too. BTW the Feds do the defining on whats considered a sinkbox and whats a boat, that's set in stone. All the whining (yes that what it is) in the world by these topwaters around here ain't gonna get the layouts banned. Period!!!!


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## diverfreak (May 11, 2008)

dkhntrdstn said:


> Diver Freak all boat must have light on there boat no matter if you have a motor or night. The light thing is for safety reason.How hard is it to put a light on your lay out boat and when it light enough to hunt take it off and put it in side the lay out.easy fix there.No im not saying you can't pile the birds up. You just can't have it in the hunter birds in the tender boat.Like I said that just the stuff I have heard. so don't hold me to it.I don't have nothing against the lay boats. I know they have been around very a very long time.


 I agree with the boat lite like i said, but for arguement sake, is a floating blind that has anchors at both ends considered a boat or a floating blind? Another thing is i usually get set up after the sun is up so it really wont affect me. I have heard the same stuff you have stated earlier this year through the grapevine and i just complied before i was told by the co's to do it. You can have birds in the tender as long as they are properly marked under the Lacy act. I agree with it as it will keep the honest guys honest and make it alot easier when you get swarmed by 4 wardens for the shake down.

DiverFreak


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

_WT*O_ a layout is now comparable to a sinksbox to some of y'all?! :rotfl: :O•-: _jeebous....how far did mommy drop your poor soul_? now the whole bird pile conundrum...what the hell....were not talking scores and scores of the stinky things, maybe a few limits is all. i meen how difficult is it to say "i shot three of the eight drake buffies right there, two of the six drake ge's, and two of the seven drake *******'s down on the end"...

heres one that should make a litte more sence...just a little but none the less, please just entertain this for just a moment: HOW ABOUT MAKE IT A MANDATE TO EITHER HAVE A POOCH ALONG FOR THE WALK OR WEAR WADERS WHILE HUNTING ANY MARSH?


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## 357bob (Sep 30, 2007)

As for the sinkbox argument, it will never hold water, layouts are just boats.
However as boats you are required by law to have a life jacket on board at all times (among other safety equipment). It will be a tough sell to get the law changed to exclude just one type of boat. Easier to just tuck a life jacket in with you (you only have to wear it under a certain age). As far as piling birds goes it's been illegal to be in possesion of another persons birds for as long as I've been hunting(34 years now). It would also be a hard sell to change the law just to exclude this type of hunting. Kudos to some of you for finding a system to stay within the law as opposed to taking it all personal and getting butt hurt about laws that have been on the books forever and Utah is just now having to learn to deal with.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'd think on the pile shot thing... just get those little colored strips of tape. Wrap a small strip around the leg of the bird and voila, you're good to go. The life jacket thing... well, thats just a good idea anyway. I guess where i've been so far, I haven't had to worry about getting run over but a spotlight is always good to let folks know where you are anyway I'd think. Crazy that they're kicking around ideas like this yet ideas that actually make sense like Longguns suggestion just get laughed off as being too restrictive.... umm how about responsible? 8)


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

There not saying you can't have the pile of birds for pics or anything like that.They are talking about having the pile of birds in the boat with the tender guy.So the tender guy has 10 ducks for only two hunters. That what im saying.But we will see what happens when next year get here.


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## waterfowlwhacker (Aug 13, 2016)

Off topic but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with marsh rat boats. I was looking at getting one for marsh and layout style hunts. Are they safe/stable enough for open water? I emailed the company a week ago with no reply.


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## waterfowlwhacker (Aug 13, 2016)

Wow didn't mean to dig up this dinosaur


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## sketch21 (Jul 11, 2013)

waterfowlwhacker said:


> Off topic but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with marsh rat boats. I was looking at getting one for marsh and layout style hunts. Are they safe/stable enough for open water? I emailed the company a week ago with no reply.


Just sold my marsh rat boat because i never used it after i got my layout.
It's not a true layout boat, although can be used as one.

Yes, they are safe, and ride nice and stable, but again not a true layout.


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