# Got a call from the Hooked on Utah guys...



## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

Got a call from none other than Gary Winterton of the Hooked on Utah TV show today.

He'd seen the bad press a week ago and has been dealing with the fallout ever since. On another post I made mention of how I was watching their show the other morning and saw how they had still, after all the bad press, aired that promo showing the guy shooting four shots at geese. I also emailed them at that time expressing my disgust and told them in a nut shell they really needed to get their act together. Utah simply does not need that kind of bad press. 

First off he was very appologetic and sorry that this mess had taken place as you can well imagine. He also said that they marched the footage right down to the DWR and reviewed it with them so that they would also know what had happend. Not only to clear the air, but to make sure the individual in question was dealt with accordingly. He then went on to say how he'd tried desperatly to get the Outdoor Channel not to air that footage on National television. However, the Outdoor channel has pre set time slots and everyhting is mapped out weeks in advance. There simply was no way possible for them to ommit the footage from the show. 

I believe Mr Winterton to be a man of characture and of a strong ethical conviction to do what is right. He assured me that in no way was himself or anyone else involved with the show aware of the infraction untill this whole mess blew up in his face. Taking the time to call me and expalin things tells me he is a man of conviction and integrity. I hope their show and their reputation will not suffer too much from this unfortunate event.

Respectfully,

Darin Gardner


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I concur it definitely is an indicator of integrity and character to admit a mistake. Everybody can make a mistake. This should be forgotten about.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Darin, that's important information.


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## Livntahunt (Aug 12, 2010)

Where can I see this? I've seen these posts about "hooked on Utah" but haven't seen or heard anything else about it


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## Al Hansen (Sep 7, 2007)

A very important and thoughtful post. Thanks Tex for sharing this.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Livntahunt said:


> Where can I see this? I've seen these posts about "hooked on Utah" but haven't seen or heard anything else about it


doubt you can since it was pulled off the web, nothing much to see really, typical hunting show segment (see advertising) up to the point a guy fired 4 shots in a row at geese on camera.

or You could always catch it on the Outdoor Channel since they seem to still be playing that show. :lol:

Since HOU took it to the Authorities, everyone should give it a rest and let the DNR take care of it.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think that is a classy way to address the issue.


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## bkelz (Dec 3, 2010)

well thats great he took the time to call you after you writing them. im sure to cover their butts, but also to show "hey we made a mistake". but when said and done, i bet they'll never make that same mistake again. :lol: 

they got class in admitting a mistake, now lets hope utah doesn't get a bad rep!


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## shootnrelease (Nov 22, 2010)

sounds like to me that thise lawers that were mentioned in an earlier thread that was deleated may have something to do with this letter from Darrin. I believe they are only sorry that the public caught the illegal act. They proved in the interview portion that its all about the show you put on, and the perception that the viewer has of them as great outdoorsman. why else would you say you shot all 6 of the birds. My feelings about HOU are the same as they were after watching two other episodes earlier this year - BAD TV!!!!!!


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## Dr. Decoy (May 4, 2008)

These guys are a joke! I have heard from a very good source about poor hunting ethics prior to this. These guys ruined several hunters snow goose hunts a few years back. I hate HOU and will not give them a pass on this.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

So a guy didn't put a plug in the gun...Who cares? o-||


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Dr. Decoy said:


> These guys are a joke! I have heard from a very good source about poor hunting ethics prior to this. These guys ruined several hunters snow goose hunts a few years back. I hate HOU and will not give them a pass on this.


your good sourse is wrong my friend, get your facts straight. i personally know gary and have hunted with him and i assure you he is about as ethical as it gets. it is however not illegal to film someone doing illegal things, look at it how you want to. i look at it as exsposing someone for who they are (western wing shooters) good on gary, let people know the faces of who the poachers really are. sounds like some of you guys on here are supporting the poachers, my friend, I am afraid to inform you that you are in fact a joke. this goes for everyone "HOU" are down right GOOD people, yall just hear something from some one who heard something from someone else's former roommate, I know i'll catch a rash from this, but I'm willing to stand up for "HOU" as well as my friend, you all have a safe and happy holiday.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> So a guy didn't put a plug in the gun...Who cares? o-||


Spoken like a true Utard.


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## Wounded Coot (Dec 18, 2010)

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, for now. As for "who cares", that would be me. I'd turn my own grandma in for poaching.
WC


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## billybob (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm sure mr. Winterton is a good guy, but in my opinion if you are a true outdoorsman you correct what was made public on your show with a public - on air apology or reprimand and a statement on air that those types of actions do not reflect the ethics and morals of those on the show or sportsmen in the state of utah. Until then, I will continue to believe that the show is more about the products and not the outdoors and hunting and fishing in the state of Utah.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

To be clear I don't condone poaching. The 3 shells rule has always puzzled me. Here's why:

I look at it the same as having two or ten fishing lines in the water. You can only keep the four trout and then you're done anyway. Someone tell me, from a moral standpoint, why do you care if the guy had 4 shells in his gun? Why, really? Is it because he broke a rule and you're that hung up on rules? Is it because you're holier than thou and have never broken a rule in your life? You don't speed down the freeway? You don't jaywalk instead of walking down to the corner crosswalk? Give me a break. :roll: I'd be upset if he took more than his share of geese. Too many shells? Why worry?



> Spoken like a true Utard.


Spoken like a true butt****. I found your word the more offensive, though.


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2010)

BirdDogger said:


> To be clear I don't condone poaching. The 3 shells rule has always puzzled me. Here's why:
> 
> I look at it the same as having two or ten fishing lines in the water. You can only keep the four trout and then you're done anyway. Someone tell me, from a moral standpoint, why do you care if the guy had 4 shells in his gun? Why, really? Is it because he broke a rule and you're that hung up on rules? Is it because you're holier than thou and have never broken a rule in your life? You don't speed down the freeway? You don't jaywalk instead of walking down to the corner crosswalk? Give me a break. :roll: I'd be upset if he took more than his share of geese. Too many shells? Why worry?
> 
> ...


AHAHAHA!! -_O- +1


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> I look at it the same as having two or ten fishing lines in the water. You can only keep the four trout and then you're done anyway. Someone tell me, from a moral standpoint, why do you care if the guy had 4 shells in his gun? Why, really? Is it because he broke a rule and you're that hung up on rules? Is it because you're holier than thou and have never broken a rule in your life? You don't speed down the freeway? You don't jaywalk instead of walking down to the corner crosswalk? Give me a break. :roll: I'd be upset if he took more than his share of geese. Too many shells? Why worry?


Throughout my life it has been my experience that most of those who step up and scream loud and long about offenders are also some of the worst offenders out there. As to why they do that I can only guess that running down another offender clears their own conscious about their actions. The internet just allows them to do it anomously.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

billybob said:


> I'm sure mr. Winterton is a good guy, but in my opinion if you are a true outdoorsman you correct what was made public on your show with a public - on air apology or reprimand and a statement on air that those types of actions do not reflect the ethics and morals of those on the show or sportsmen in the state of utah. Until then, I will continue to believe that the show is more about the products and not the outdoors and hunting and fishing in the state of Utah.


Ah, if you read the part in the first post you would have read that the show tapes are sent out and time slots are scheduled months in advance. That is why they could pull the show. I'm sure they could tape up a public statement and get it aired, months after the orginal show has ran!



> Until then, I will continue to believe that the show is more about the products and not the outdoors and hunting and fishing in the state of Utah


Just who do you think pays for that show? name one show that doesn't advertise their sponsors? You can't because there is no such creature out in TV land. :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2010)

Wounded Coot said:


> I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, for now. As for "who cares", that would be me. I'd turn my own grandma in for poaching.
> WC


no one poached anything. he broke a simple rule that doesnt in any way effect you. if he used that 4th shell to shoot a 4th goose, then he would be guilty of a form of poaching, and i could see why you would be upset and effected in a minor way. but as far as i and you know, he shot at the most, 3 geese. lighten up. no ones perfect. its always amazed me at how every waterfowler on this forum is perfect and by the books 100% of the time. these "Utards" that we all run into everywhere are out there hiding somewhere... i'd bet my SBEII that someone who has commented on this thread and b****ed about this guys ethics, has at one point, been guilty of commiting this same crime or much worse. be real careful at who you start pointing the finger at... :roll:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> To be clear I don't condone poaching. The 3 shells rule has always puzzled me.


The three shot rule came into being in an attempt to help curb market gunning. I also think it has outlived its usefulness, if you can't kill it with 3; most times you can't get it down with 4 or 5 or 6, but you can be sure the Feds won't repel it.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I find the "everyone breaks the law" comments to be interesting. I worry about folks who condone law violations. 

Some guy with his plug out, loading his auto with the plug in it with 4 shells, or whatever is breaking the law.....he gets busted, he gets busted. He gets a nasty fine, the end.

The trouble is that the guy were talking about is a Foiles understudy, who has multiple waterfowl/gun/etc. sponsers, runs a website, gets on T.V., knows he's being filmed and breaks the law..... He ought to follow the letter of the law 100% of the time, period. He knows better, much more is expected of him. Same for Winterten. If they are in the position they are in, there is very little room for this type of screw up...ever. 
If they are being set as an example, they want that spotlight, much more can and should be expected. If they fugg this up, consequences should be very, very heavy.

Plugged guns to hold no more than three shells is, in my opinion, still a law that is well within reason. Reasonable people should understand why, whether they are modern day market hunters or not. Without the law, I see some people, the same kinds of people we are talking about shooting 4 shells, taking it to the extreme if this law was not in effect and running extended magazines and firing every shell in their gun every time and at every thing. For some reason, I don't see this as a good scenerio


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## bird buster (May 25, 2008)

I've been reading all the post about this topic and have yet to reply. Let me just say this, I haven't had a good feeling about these guys. We all know these guys have jumped on this forum as "NEW MEMBERS" saying "all hunters break the laws..." and "...it's not that big of a deal..." Well it is a big deal. They will not be around long, less than a year.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> Spoken like a true ********. I found your word the more offensive, though.


That type of language is NEVER acceptable on here. :evil: :evil: :evil:

From the rules: "Forum members may not post combative, argumentative, abusive, _*vulgar*_, slanderous, hateful, threatening, off-topic, or sexually-oriented material or make posts that encourage or condone criminal activity. In addition, we will not tolerate posts that are derisive of religious, ethnic or racial groups."


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> That type of language is NEVER acceptable on here.


I totally agree. Now deliver a lecture to the jerk who wants to use the term "Utard". 


> From the rules: "Forum members may not post combative, argumentative, abusive


I'll stick to my comment that blackdog used the more offensive word on this thread. He did. If you had a family member who had special needs you'd feel the same way when people use their condition to come up with a derogatory insult. It's no different than using the color of one's skin as an insult like using the word "******", or using one's religion as an epithet, as in "you dirty Jew".

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms, just to bear an extra shell in the arm.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

BirdDogger, you are now my hero. Both for how you are pointing out the silliness of all the 'outrage' over a hunter hunting w/o a plug and for how you reacted to an offensive term being used.


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## billybob (Oct 27, 2008)

Mojo1 said:


> billybob said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure mr. Winterton is a good guy, but in my opinion if you are a true outdoorsman you correct what was made public on your show with a public - on air apology or reprimand and a statement on air that those types of actions do not reflect the ethics and morals of those on the show or sportsmen in the state of utah. Until then, I will continue to believe that the show is more about the products and not the outdoors and hunting and fishing in the state of Utah.
> ...


Um yeah, I read the whole thread and I understand it may take months to get an apology or reprimand aired, but do you think we will see one? I don't .

As for the show being about products, I was saying just that. Yes every show is paid for by advertising but products don't dominate the actual air time of the show on quality hunting shows. American bird dog was a great show that ran on the outdoor channel and was hosted by a local utahn. That was truly a great hunting show and products were only momentarily mentioned during the shows, if ever. When HOU's people issue an on-air reprimand and their overwhelming reliance on product promotion is scaled back during the show itself, I will set it back to record on my dvr.


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## billybob (Oct 27, 2008)

BirdDogger said:


> So a guy didn't put a plug in the gun...Who cares? o-||


You make one of the more logical arguments on this thread. Really, what is the big deal if somone doesn't plug their gun if they don't take more than their limit? I don't pretend to have the answer but I would bet a biologist would argue that the three shot rule has a lot to do with trying to preserve flock numbers. Ducks and geese rely on flock numbers for survival don't they? If you can shoot at flocks without limit, wouldn't that drastically affect flock numbers. I would think that is the reason for the three shot rule.


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## Jsw (Dec 5, 2010)

Hey guys,

I don't usually join in on these kind of arguments but i have been reading all the responses and i find it all kind of sad that we (as in grownup's ) have resulted to name calling and slamming each other for diffrence of opinion when we should all be standing up for whats right in the sport that we love now im not saying that we need to look the other way or lock them in prison for loading a 4th shell but it is a law therefor should be fallowed and also i'm not connecting anyone with jeff foiles or compairing so dont take it the wrong way but i'm sure that the foiles crew didnt start out doing all the stuff that he is charged with i'm sure it started small and if it's not stopped here where will it end so if that stuff is allowed to go on then what other regulations will they give us next lets let the authorities deal with them and just support the waterfowl community and i for one fallow the laws and im sure that the majority on here do and i do not condone or agree with breaking the law or allowing people to get away with it just cause who they are but i truly think there are better ways of going about it than name calling and accusing other people so i hope i didn't offend anyone with any of this but these are my thoughts


Hope you all have a safe holiday season and a happy new year and some good luck out in the marsh


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Well I was out of line on my previous post and I know that. I used a word that I almost never use in my life. I was trying to make a point. For those who saw the post and didn't like the language I hope you can try to see past that to recognize what an ugly term blackdog has been consistently using over the past few months when he calls people "Utards". It's been something that's been carrying on not just on this forum but on others as well. I would personally prefer to read the F word ten times a day. 

As to the extra shell in the gun issue- I carry five shells in my gun on all upland hunts (not on WMA's of course). I've never once felt that gave me any advantage over the game. It's just a convenience feature. Maybe some of you guys are quick enough on the draw to get off five shots at a bird in flight. I'm not. Then if you were fast enough, more power to you! As long as a person doesn't take more game than is permitted, I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with keeping an extra shell in the gun. 

I know, I know..."It's against the law!" Utah makes over 300 new laws every year. The federal government even more. At some point in time people might realize that Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and Henry David Thoreau had a pretty good point when they said, "That government is best which governs least." I obey the law because I don't want a fine. That doesn't mean the law isn't asinine or that we shouldn't question the laws that are made for us by our elected "representatives".

billybob, thank you for a well thought out response. I would guess that taking too many individuals from one specific flock would indeed be the reason for only allowing 3 shots.


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## Wounded Coot (Dec 18, 2010)

Interesting, we should only obey the laws we agree with. It is pretty easy to rationalize why we shouldn't have to obey all of the laws. Just the good ones. Why is it against the law to spotlight if you only kill one deer? Why is it illegal to bait birds in if you don't kill over your limit? Once you get started down that road it is a slippery slope. 
WC


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> I was trying to make a point.


Hey.....you did a good job too !!!


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Again, whether anyone believes that firing 4 shells at waterfowl is okee dokee or not, the law still remains (boundaries for many people is a GOOD thing) and the Western Wingshooter guy, since he's decided to be a Foiles Pro Staff, have sponcers of all kinds, run a website, gets the attention of Hooked on Utah for a show, should follow the letter of the law to a "T", no exceptions, *EVER*. The Winterton guy is in the same boat. He and Hooked on Utah should be held to a much higher standard than "Joe Blow" newbie dike hunter guy. NO ONE SHOULD BE SAYING....."HEY NO BIG DEAL, ALL HE DID WAS BREAK THE LAW" OR, "HEY, HOOKED ON UTAH HAD NO IDEA THAT LAWS WERE BEING BROKEN." There were comments made during the footage that makes me wonder if HOU did know that laws were being broken. If they did know or should have known.....they should suffer similar or greater consequences.
Since these guys have decided to be examples to others by being a sponcered pro staffer and TV sports show host, if they screw up, they ought to be, in my opinion, made an example of for others when it comes to consequences as well. 
If the public, judges, and others make light of infractions of people who are in the public spotlight...... well it's kind of easy to figure where it would go if they do and as mentioned, down the slippery slope we'll go.


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## billybob (Oct 27, 2008)

.45 said:


> BirdDogger said:
> 
> 
> > I was trying to make a point.
> ...


+ 1


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

billybob said:


> .45 said:
> 
> 
> > BirdDogger said:
> ...


Sorry billybob & .45, but that isn't even close to being a good job. If one wants to make a point, that person should do it in a well reasoned, civil, and intelligent manner. ESPECIALLY on a family oriented forum. I can sling profanities with the best of them IF the occasion warrants such language, but I certainly DON'T do it in mixed company or when children are present. The statement was out of bounds on this forum and was so admitted as such. Enough said.

The problem with loading and firing 4 shells while water fowling is this: it's against the law. Period. End of sentence. Not caring that somebody openly beaks that law is irresponsible. We do not get to pick and choose which laws we honor and which ones we break based on our personal beliefs no matter how much sense they make to us personally. If you believe a law has outlived its usefulness or is absolutely a bad law, then start or join an organization to have the law changed or repealed. In the mean time, if you break the law, you should be prepared to suffer the consequences.

As far as use of the word "Utard" is concerned, I've always viewed people that use that word as lacking in social skills. On this and other forums where it is used, it is almost ALWAYS used in the context of name calling. This is never a good thing on an open forum and should be avoided at all times. However, the folks that stoop to this type of childish behavior and banter on a regular basis aren't capable of changing. They don't see that the behavior is childish. No amount of admonishment is ever going to change that behavior.

Doing a search on the web for the word "Utard" will turn up the fact that it is defined in the Urban Dictionary, it is in the URL for at least a couple of web sites, and it would appear to be a legitimate surname in this country. All in all, it's not going to cause me to lose any sleep over its use on an open forum. Your mileage may vary in that regard.

As far as the show HOU is concerned, when I first came across it on cable, I thought it might be worth watching. I set my DVR to record it and watched 3 shows. That was enough for me. I deleted the recording of it. I just don't care for the attitude and general demeanor of the host. Not my kind of guy. However, if he did in fact turn over the filming of the law violation to the authorities, he is to be commended for that. It was the right thing to do regardless of his motives. Hopefully, justice will be served and the guilty party will be held accountable. But I still don't plan to watch any further HOU shows.

I guess I'm done here.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I had to go to Idaho to hear the word "Utard" for the first time...

A friend of mine whom I grew up with has lived there for 15 years. He says that Utard is what EVERYONE calls us Utah folks. In Idaho it's very common vernacular among most the land owners I've talked to. (I guess the people of Idaho are a bunch of childish social misfits... :roll: ) At first I found it hard to believe that all Utahn's had that bad of a wrap in other states. But the longer I'm alive and the more I hunt out of state, I realize that we really do have a bad reputation. I don't know why, this kind of thing goes on in every state but we really seem to have a negative effect on the people of Idaho. I will say this, in all the states I've ever hunted, 11 besides Utah, I've NEVER been cut off, crowded out, encroached upon, or witnessed the amount of crap I've seen in this state. Some of you may get offended by the word being as it is a slang, derogatory, and somewhat politically incorrect thing to say. But hey, if the shoe fits... I don't mind the word, in fact, I think it's kinda funny. May be my social skills aren't what they should be, but I've never been one to candy coat anything. I call a spade a spade. If people don't like that, oh well. I'm not here to impress non of you mutherhubbards! :mrgreen:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I had to go to Idaho to hear the word "Utard" for the first time...
> 
> A friend of mine whom I grew up with has lived there for 15 years. He says that Utard is what EVERYONE calls us Utah folks. In Idaho it's very common vernacular among most the land owners I've talked to. (I guess the people of Idaho are a bunch of childish social misfits... :roll: ) At first I found it hard to believe that all Utahn's had that bad of a wrap in other states. But the longer I'm alive and the more I hunt out of state, I realize that we really do have a bad reputation. I don't know why, this kind of thing goes on in every state but we really seem to have a negative effect on the people of Idaho. I will say this, in all the states I've ever hunted, 11 besides Utah, I've NEVER been cut off, crowded out, encroached upon, or witnessed the amount of crap I've seen in this state. Some of you may get offended by the word being as it is a slang, derogatory, and somewhat politically incorrect thing to say. But hey, if the shoe fits... I don't mind the word, in fact, I think it's kinda funny. May be my social skills aren't what they should be, but I've never been one to candy coat anything. I call a spade a spade. If people don't like that, oh well. I'm not here to impress non of you mutherhubbards! :mrgreen:


+1

I right there with you Tex!


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

In utah we have so many more hunters and hunting locations close to urban areas and cities than these other states!! look how many hunters can drive from slc a half hour and be in a hunting area!!! sorry but that's why there is a lot more crap and bad things that happen....lots of bubbas out there closer to huntable areas..Montana doesn't have that crap to deal with and neither does idaho. so thats why.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> In utah we have so many more hunters and hunting locations close to urban areas and cities than these other states!! look how many hunters can drive from slc a half hour and be in a hunting area!!! sorry but that's why there is a lot more crap and bad things that happen....lots of bubbas out there closer to huntable areas..Montana doesn't have that crap to deal with and neither does idaho. so thats why.


True, we're all rats in a cage...


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> Some of you may get offended by the word ! :mrgreen:


Im a offended by it tex.I thought we was friends. :lol:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

dubob said:


> Sorry billybob & .45, but that isn't even close to being a good job.


Your apology is appreciated dubob !!

Maybe you can't quite comprehend what has taken place here. You saw what you call an offensive word printed on this thread, BirdDogger also saw what he calls an offensive word printed on this thread. Now how can a single word be so offensive to some and not to others? And who decides the 'true' meaning of these words or how they should be accepted?

Yeah...I saw what was written, obviously BirdDogger was upset and expressed his feelings very well !! Leaving no doubt in my mind that he was very upset. I personally felt he was justified in his reaction, although I don't care to read either words on a public forum.

I felt no need to reprimand the man, give him advice or lecture him. Now why do feel like it's your place?


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

I think UTARD fits a large group of people in this state. I have never seen so many idiots as i do here. I lived in ID for 6 years hunting and fishing many different areas and never once had a problem with anyone. It is a daily basis here. Like Tex said "if the shoe fits"...


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

.45 said:


> Your apology is appreciated dubob !!


You're funny .45. That was hardly an apology. But then, you know that.



.45 said:


> Maybe you can't quite comprehend what has taken place here. You saw what you call an offensive word printed on this thread, BirdDogger also saw what he calls an offensive word printed on this thread. Now how can a single word be so offensive to some and not to others? And who decides the 'true' meaning of these words or how they should be accepted?


There's absolutely nothing wrong with my comprehension. I know exactly what took place. BirdDogger took exception to the use of the word "Utard", went postal, and vented his anger by using vile language on a public forum frequented by children. Does that about cover it? As far as who decides the true meaning of the word BirdDogger used and how it is accepted, I would have to say society at large does and has. And the administration folks who govern these forums have established a set of rules for those that wish to participate herein. As far as using the word "Utard" goes, I have seen no indication from administration or any moderator that the use of "Utard" is unacceptable or not allowed on these forums. I will gladly abide by their decision on its use either way.



.45 said:


> Yeah...I saw what was written, obviously BirdDogger was upset and expressed his feelings very well !! Leaving no doubt in my mind that he was very upset. I personally felt he was justified in his reaction, although I don't care to read either words on a public forum.


Well, I personally felt he was NOT justified in using the language he did and I reported the post to the admin folks. And apparently the admin folks felt he was not justified as well due to the fact that the language has been edited out on his and others posts.



.45 said:


> I felt no need to reprimand the man, give him advice or lecture him. Now why do feel like it's your place?


Because the rules of this forum, as I understand them, forbid the use of vulgar language. And the forums are set up to allow the reporting of posts to admin when an individual feels that the rules have been broken. Admin reviews the reported post and the comments of the reporter and makes a determination as to the validity of the complaint. And in this case the complaint would appear to have been valid. And that, sir, is why I felt it was my place.

I have no other bone to pick with BirdDogger. Even though he has over a thousand posts on these forums, I really don't have any feel for his contributions to the forums one way or the other. But certain words, when used on these forums, WILL get my attention in a hurry regardless of what caused their use or by whom.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Hell they should have made you a mod here dubob.Free men also don't ask yours or anybodyelses permission to excercise their freedom of speech.The children hear worse language on the playground at school,at the mall,and cable tv than what he used for christ sake.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> To say the least, I was a skeptic. So I grabbed my camera and headed up there to see for myself. ****, Bubba, I'm sorry I ever doubted you. I didn't find a group, but there was this one having a grand time


A quote from dubob to me on a thread dated Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:59 am. 
http://utahwildlife.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27529&p=292150&hilit=****#p292150
It's all good, guys. Dubob is correct that the language I used should not be used. He's no innocent angel either, posting "D" words and photos of ladies in bikinis on the Internet. 

Being as this is the *UTAH* Wildlife Network, I do wish the mods would take a stance against that other word I don't like. Plenty of good human beings recognize the stigma attached to the word and why it's so ugly. I'll admit that blackdog got under my skin with that one. For some reason he participates here and over on the Utah Bird Dogs forum, but all he's done since an incident this fall is rip on Utahns. I didn't even get involved in that fiasco of a thread, but I couldn't help myself this time.

Sometimes you've got to stand for something. I took a stand. Dubob took a stand. Some others here took a stand. Seriously, it's all good guys. I've hunted three times in the past week and I kept five shells in the gun each time. It felt good to do. I think I'll do it more often. Three successful Hungarian partridge trips in a row, plus a chukar covey and a pointed bobcat have me feeling quite happy and mellow tonight. Deus vos guarde.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

o-||


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

I have only lived here 5 years BUT i have never seen so many friendly people . More than any other state or country, i have Lived in .This whole UTARD thing is rude and stupid . IMO You can see what you want , good or bad . kinda like the glass half empty or full deal . BUT for some reason forums seems to bring out the worst in some people , just not sure why . :roll:


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

1BandMan said:


> The trouble is that the guy were talking about is a Foiles understudy, who has multiple waterfowl/gun/etc. sponsors, runs a website, gets on T.V., knows he's being filmed and breaks the law .


 He must do so much , that it he's got to the point were he forgets he's even doing it . You can imagine what he does when he's not on camera. :evil: :roll:


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Birddogger I didn't find your term offensive nor do I find "Utard" offensive. It is laughable that people are so easily offended by a word. I guess I have thick skin as I am not offended by much. People that get offended by the use of the F word or any other word for that matter are just as silly as atheists that claim to be offended by placing crosses on road sides or copies of the ten commandments in a court house.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> People that get offended by the use of the F word or any other word for that matter are just as silly as atheists that claim to be offended by placing crosses on road sides or copies of the ten commandments in a court house.


Truer words have never been spoken! I find those claims to be ludicrous, in fact I'm personally offended by them, I don't want to hear them anymore.

When did their beliefs become more important than mine? :shock:

We once had a great nation, but once we started catering to everyone's feelings, it has been going downhill ever since.

I see absolutely nothing offensive in the term Utard, in fact I will wager that most who are offended by the use of it, are offended because it some small way in reminds them of some instance of retarded behavior, bad ethics, call it whatever you like, in their past, and they shouldn't have to be reminded of that, it's their right! :roll:


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> I see absolutely nothing offensive in the term Utard, in fact I will wager that most who are offended by the use of it, are offended because it some small way in reminds them of some instance of retarded behavior, bad ethics, call it whatever you like, in their past, and they shouldn't have to be reminded of that, it's their right


Well, you're right that the root of the word comes from the word "retarded". Let me share with you something I wrote to dubob earlier today and hopefully you'll realize why I'm sensitive to this particular word. You're dead wrong on why people don't like it. 


> I happen to have a little sister who has Tourette's Syndrome and a bunch of accompanying learning disabilities. She's been hurt so many times in her life by people calling her a retard. Of course as her big brother I spent my elementary years defending my little sister.
> 
> Now I'm in another stage in life. I'm in graduate school to become a school principal. I'm taking a class called "Supervision of the Special Education Classroom". The kids in that special ed. room have such a hard lot in life. Many of them don't even have the wherewithal to know when other kids at school make fun of them. I have a whole new appreciation lately for how blessed I am to have the mental and physical capabilities that I have. It's just so demeaning to use these kids' condition to form a derogatory epithet.
> 
> In addition to all this, I know of at least a couple of forum members who also feel a little hurt inside every time they read the "Utard" word. Proutdoors (Bart) has a son who is autistic. Seniorsetterguy (Rob) has a little grandson who is also autistic. It's hard to have someone you love so much get made fun of all the time. Then to have their disability become the new catch phrase used to demean others on the forum...It's just hurtful.


Hopefully someone out there can read this with an open mind and learn from it.


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## Carl Taylor (Jul 23, 2009)

Bird Dog,
Classy move right their bud  

When you are walking with physically and mentally challenged children, you are walking with angels!

Carl Taylor


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

That a sad story, but I don't find myself buying into your reasoning. Being a southerner I don't get upset when folks use the terms "*******", and "inbred" to make fun of my family and/or myself all the time.. For the record those terms are no less derogatory than Utard! 

Being offended is a part of life, thicken up your skin and learn move on past what’s been said.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> Being offended is a part of life, thicken up your skin and learn move on past what's been said.


That is true that we should not ever look to be offended, but more importantly we should not ever purposely look to offend others in using such a term. I think the term is just blatantly ignorant and anyone using the term has single or maybe double digit IQ, remember don't look to be offended :mrgreen:


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Mojo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Being offended is a part of life, thicken up your skin and learn move on past what's been said.
> ...


You and eveyone else are gonna have to try a lot harder than that to offend this old *******, I's got mor than nough thick skin to go around, maybe I oughta loan BD some! :lol:

You sure you ain't never used that term Huge???


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

I couldn't disagree more with the notion that the Hooked on Utah show focuses on ethical practices. The well discussed and debated incident of 4 shots is only one example of unethical behavior aired on their shows. There are others in my opinion. And for them to sit and try and claim that the person had nothing to do with Hooked on Utah is total crap. The guy was aired on *THEIR* television show! How is that not being associated with Hooked on Utah???

Watch their snow goose hunt. Watch their pheasant shoot. I've seen 4 episodes, and 3 of them for sure made me embarrassed to be a Utah outdoorsman and having myself associated with them through television. I didn't think they were ethical at all. The 4th was a total joke, but for entirely other reasons...so I won't include it in the "unethical" category like the other episodes definitely were for me.

I read somewhere that "by their fruits ye shall know them." I'm sure Gary and everyone else associated with Hooked on Utah are decent human beings. I don't know them, so I wouldn't endeavor to say they are bad people. But from what I've seen on their show I will never buy that they are ethical sportsmen. They can try and point the finger at anyone they want. But it was *their* hunt, *their* cameras, *their* editing, and *their* pocket book being filled. Therefore, it's *their* responsibility to act legally and ethically. If something is aired on their show that doesn't conform, that is *THEIR* responsibility no matter how hard they try and pass the buck. Not only on the 4-shot episode. But in every episode. My personal opinion is that they don't adhere to the ethics of a true sportsman in the shows I've seen.

PS- Wasn't this thread about Hooked on Utah??? And Mojo, for someone with such thick skin...you sure seem to be upset that others got offended.  You all need to take a deep breath and go hunting.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Mojo1 said:


> You sure you ain't never used that term Huge???


Never for several reasons:
1-I am a lifelong Utah resident, wouldn't such a term be an insult to me and every Utahn?
2-Anything with a connotation like that is simply not in my vocab; not that I am the most PC person, but this word is just pointless.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

TS30 said:


> And Mojo, for someone with such thick skin...you sure seem to be upset that others got offended.


T, you assume wrong, I am not upset, in fact I rarely get upset over much of anything, sure as **** ain't gonna get upset over this uproar, but I really do enjoy bringing all these high and mighty judgemental ***** back down to reality.

Man you right, I do wonder what its gonna be like when hunting season is over, since this place has been so lively up till now,the off season should be something else. :mrgreen:


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2011)

Mojo1 said:


> That a sad story, but I don't find myself buying into your reasoning. Being a southerner I don't get upset when folks use the terms "*******", and "inbred" to make fun of my family and/or myself all the time.. For the record those terms are no less derogatory than Utard!
> 
> Being offended is a part of life, thicken up your skin and learn move on past what's been said.


well said! "sticks and stones..."


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> I really do enjoy bringing all these high and mighty judgemental ***** back down to reality.


Ironically, that's exactly why I used the word I did and started the 4th shell conversation in the first place! Guess it takes one to know one, huh?:lol:


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## Crazyhuntinman (Sep 11, 2007)

And to think if someone would have done their job and just edited out that piece of film 
none of this crying conversion would have taken place. I use to enjoy reading how peoples hunting/fishing trips were going through out the season but this forum has become a haven for cry baby do gooders. Seems like alot of people here have a case of being a little b**ch and I am prescribing a heavy dose of man the "F" up.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Well gentlement, this thread has run its course of usefullness. So I'm prescribing a heavy dose of "lock the thread up." 

Discuss whatever you want, but we maintain a level of civility in our discussions here. This thread has crossed well beyond that.


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