# Gun Trust



## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Any experience setting up a gun trust? Cost?


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## Lonetree (Dec 4, 2010)

Not specifically with guns, but any trust will run you a couple hundred. Are you doing NFA guns?


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Specifically for NFA. I've been through the family trust deal already, but this would be separate to that.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

http://www.silencerco.com/nfa-trust/
I've heard about this one, haven't tried it.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Yup...saw that. Read some reviews...both + & - for it(?) Supposedly takes about 15 mins and your done other then getting it notarized.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Most will cost you a couple hundred dollars. I got lucky and got one done for $150 in February.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

If you are on facebook there is a long range shooters of Utah group in which this is discussed fairly regularly. Mitch Vilos is a name that is mentioned regularly, but I have zero experience with it personally.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Seems to be a lot of "discount" $150 fill in the blank type deals and then for every one of those...there's a lawyer saying those are crap and that you need to spend $300-500 with them.

Huge...thanks....I actually was on there the other day looking. Found a guy named "Phil" as well. I'm going to contact them and see what they say.


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## HeberHunter (Nov 13, 2014)

My brother just got his trust put together. He put myself and my dad on it. All 3 of us had to go get it notarized for it to be legit. You just need to make sure it has all the right wording/info in it. (What happens when you die, who can/cannot have the nfa items, adding/removing people from the trust, etc.) Typically a lawyer can button that all up. He paid a gun lawyer that has ties to silencerco $200 for the trust.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

Jim Alder Law. I know several happy customers.


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## UTguntrustJ.D. (Apr 15, 2015)

Jim Alder here. I've been doing gun trusts for about 4 years and would be happy to help. FYI, at the NRA Convention in Nashville last wee, the NFA Branch attorney called out the SilencerCo Easytrust as one of the worst examples of a DIY trust template they've seen.
I have options from $150 to $500, depending on what you want to do. I don't recommend using a trust for multiple grantors as has been described in one of the other posts, as trusts are not set up to be a partnership agreement regulating the rights of separate individuals. it causes gift tax problems and it's going to be major headache when the ATF's proposed Rule 41p is finally implemented. 
If you have any questions, please feel free to call me at 801-463-2600 or go to our website at www.utahguntrusts.com for more info. I'm happy to discuss your options free of charge.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Jim...appreciate you jumping into the conversation. You and I chatted last week through FB.

Can you expound on the "multiple grantors" topic a little more. Are you specifically speaking about non-family "partnerships" in a trust? For my specific needs, it would be listing direct family members as co-trustee's only.


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## Cooky (Apr 25, 2011)

UTguntrustJ.D. said:


> Jim Alder here. I've been doing gun trusts for about 4 years and would be happy to help. FYI, at the NRA Convention in Nashville last wee, the NFA Branch attorney called out the SilencerCo Easytrust as one of the worst examples of a DIY trust template they've seen.
> I have options from $150 to $500, depending on what you want to do. I don't recommend using a trust for multiple grantors as has been described in one of the other posts, as trusts are not set up to be a partnership agreement regulating the rights of separate individuals. it causes gift tax problems and it's going to be major headache when the ATF's proposed Rule 41p is finally implemented.
> If you have any questions, please feel free to call me at 801-463-2600 or go to our website at www.utahguntrusts.com for more info. I'm happy to discuss your options free of charge.


Jim,
This is what I was talking about in our conversation on the Marksman Challenge page.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

HeberHunter said:


> My brother just got his trust put together. He put myself and my dad on it. All 3 of us had to go get it notarized for it to be legit. You just need to make sure it has all the right wording/info in it. (What happens when you die, who can/cannot have the nfa items, adding/removing people from the trust, etc.) Typically a lawyer can button that all up. He paid a gun lawyer that has ties to silencerco $200 for the trust.


You shouldnt need to have it notarized for each person. Mine was notorized with mine and my wifes signatures (one stamp) as trustee and co-trustee. I have a form for Appointment Of Co-Trustee that I can add names to and never need a notary.


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## UTguntrustJ.D. (Apr 15, 2015)

The Grantor is the person or persons setting up the trust. There is no problem having a joint trust between and husband and wife because you have an unlimited gift tax deduction with your spouse. However, when gifting assets into a trust with someone you're not married to, you can cause a gift tax issue.
The bigger problems with joint trusts between unmarried individuals are control issues and future CLEO signature concerns. As I mentioned, the trust was developed as a estate management vehicle, not a partnership agreement. Business entities are the tools we use to manage partnerships between unmarried individuals. If you and your spouse want to go separate ways, the divorce process divides your assets, even if held in trust. But you don't have a divorce process is you've set up a joint trust between yourself and three friends. And the trust doesn't provide mechanisms to regulate a scenario where one of the other grantors isn't contributing his annual dues to maintain weapons with or has run off with one of the guns and won't give it back, etc.
If you truly want a group of people to contribute to an entity for NFA purposes, I recommend using an LLC, where the operating agreement has provisions for these types of scenarios and is expressly intended to regulate the interests between partners.
Adding co-trustees to a trust that is set up to do so is pretty simple and can be done at any time, as long as the person is not prohibited. The other issue about having others use your trust for their NFA weapons is that the ATF's proposed Rule 41p will potentially require all trustees to chase down CLEO signature, fingerprints and photographs each time a new application is submitted. (This could also include beneficiaries with the right of possession, if your trust permits that, mine don't). So, if you have those three friends as cotrustees and they have used your trust to purchase NFA weapons, do you want to wait for them to chase down CLEO signature, fingerprints and photographs each time you want to buy a new suppressor? Will they object to you removing them as a trustee so you don't have to wait for them to jump through those hoops? As a cotrustee, they have no control over the trust, that ultimately resides with you as the grantor, so I would never use someone else's trust for my weapons.
If you're just using your trust to allow others to use your weapons, then you're OK.


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## HeberHunter (Nov 13, 2014)

It's my brothers trust. He put my dad and myself on as beneficiaries I guess. Not too terribly sure. Effectively he wants all the NFA toys and if he were to die they'd end up in our possession to avoid "the accidental felony". That is what I understand anyway. I guess it also allows us to be in possession of the NFA items without him being present. I am not too worried about it. If/When I get into collecting my NFA items I'll just get my own trust. At this point I don't have the money necessary for a trust, tax stamps, and the high cost of the NFA items. I am sure once I am done with college this december I'll be able to put my money towards those items. Especially when I'm not throwing $6,000+ cash per year for my degree. -O,-


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Cooky said:


> Jim Alder Law. I know several happy customers.


He set up an S-Corp for my business partner and I. Very thorough, very clear in explaining all articles. I would absolutely recommend him. His offices are in SLC on 2100 South just west of 700 East.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

I was going to use Alder but called twice with no answer and never have received a reply to my email that I sent in February. I finally used Nelson Law Offices in Ogden


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Reb...sent you PM...thanks.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

Ended up going with Phil Nelson http://www.nlolegal.com/practice-areas/nfa-trusts as well. Super easy process and was able to answer all/any questions I had.

Lots of good comments about both Phil and Jim from guys who have used their services...so you can't go wrong with one or the other.


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