# Whitetail deer in Utah



## fastcamo (Aug 27, 2012)

I recently have seen a few photos of whitetails living here close to home, here in northern Utah, The mule deer population has had a rough time as it is, the whitetails I think will out compete the Mules for food and shelter, I think a separate management plan needs to be discussed and set into action.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Last I heard, Whitetails are unprotected in Utah. Don't trust me though.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

There have been pictures of whitetails in Utah for ages now, especially in the Cache valley... and they certainly aren't growing out of control. There was a nice buck whitetail wintering in Heber 10 years ago, people posted pictures of him.

Lots of states have overlapping mule deer / whitetail populations with no detrimental effect. I wish we had more whitetails personally.


-DallanC


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Whitetails are protected as we manage for "deer". Don't go killing them with wanton abandon yet...


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## fastcamo (Aug 27, 2012)

Yea I know they have been here for years, but now they are more and more common, a little more than a stone throw from Harrison Blvd isn't an out of control population,but its sure on its way there with their more aggressive behavior.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I have seen whitetails co habitating with mule deer up in Idaho and the 2 species seem to do just fine together. I sure hope that we get a good huntable population. One way to turn a simple antlerless hunt into a trophy antlerless hunt would be to target female whitetails.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I've seen them overlap in Montana as well. I don't think that they push out mule deer as some assert. I think that mule deer don't do well in fragmented, urbanized habitats, but whitetail can do VERY well in those habitats. As the Cache Valley continues to transform into 5-20 acre ranchettes, mule deer will continue to decline, and whitetail thrive.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

White Tails and Mule deer live in proximity with no problems. They very seldom if ever inter breed or even mingle. I have watched a herd of mule deer up in Washington slowly grow from a herd of 4-5 to a very healthy herd of over 2 dozen over the last 15 years. 
I would love to see White Tails in huntable numbers in Utah but it probably won't happen since it hasn't happened yet.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Whitetails in the west are friggin awesome! They cohabitate fine with muleys, they can live anywhere, they make great trophies, and they taste great. Just what we need. I've hunted Whitetails in Idaho for 20 years in an area that produces monster mule deer. Our state could easily support both if they decide to head our direction. I've always thought that the Uintah basin would be a great place for a covey of Whitetails. Anyone who views these jems as a nuisance species needs to broaden their horizons a bit. I would be strongly opposed to any eradication of naturally expanding deer populations.-------SS


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## fastcamo (Aug 27, 2012)

I like the whitetails, and have taken a few nice ones, Just unsure about if they ruin the mule deer with what little habitat they have compared to the whitetails, I'm glad I'm hearing they can co exist


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## bugchuker (Dec 3, 2007)

I took a pic of a whitetail doe a couple years ago at the mouth of Big Cottonwood, right after a 2 point muley gave her the goods.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

bugchuker said:


> I took a pic of a whitetail doe a couple years ago at the mouth of Big Cottonwood, right after a 2 point muley gave her the goods.


Even today the natives are bartering with foreigners.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't think they displace each other. Although they often overlap, they like and thrive in two different types of habitats. I've had whitetails in my back yard in Perry, Utah since I built my house in '06. I haven't seen many crosses where I hunted whities in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. I did get a picture of a cross in my Perry backyard. I'll see if I can find it.
Anyway, bring on the whitetail!


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## Elkaholic2 (Feb 24, 2013)

Just more mouths to feed on a limited winter range! 

Last I heard that they estimate so where between 600-1000 white-tailed deer in Utah. Mostly migrants from the snake river area around Idaho falls. 

I'm really surprised they have never taken a strong hold here. As far as population goes. We do have great habitat for them. But, if I had to choose. I'd choose mule deer for utah!


Besides. If we have whitetails here! I lose my "high adventure" trip to kansas every year! The ole lady would make me stay home to hunt whiteys!


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

GaryFish said:


> I think that mule deer don't do well in fragmented, urbanized habitats,


I and my landscaping don't particularly agree with that over generalization. They thrive well in my moderate density, long established (since the 1960's) ,highly fragmented neighborhood. Mostly quarter acre lots. Too well. I sure wish someone could hunt these buggers even if it wasn't me! I'm tired of residential mulies.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

I fail to see any benifit public utah hunters would have from whitetails. First they would only live in areas with water and farm land. The farmers would lock the public out or charge trespass fees. The public would be forced to pay farmers for crop and fence damage. 
They would stay and eat what's left of the muledeer winter forage.
Lose lose situation!

From what I've learned is the division shoots the does when they find them and this is the reason you don't see a growing population of them.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> I fail to see any benifit public utah hunters would have from whitetails


How about some hunters dont care what type of buck they shoot, and for every whitetail buck harvested its one more Mule Deer buck left alive.

-DallanC


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I think we have to be very careful if you want mule deer AND whitetails in UT. It is no secret that mule deer numbers are down significantly, and not just here but region wide. Whitetails in UT won't live in a vacuum. There are costs and benefits associated with each addition or subtraction to our environment. Something has to "give" if whitetails are to be firmly established here as many have advocated. That very well may be even lower mule deer numbers as they compete for the limited habitat in this State.

I know there are opinions all over the map on this, and the science isn't settled, but is there any coincidence that mule deer numbers have plummeted while elk populations have exploded in the past 20 years? I understand that the mule deer / elk relationship is only one piece of the puzzle, but I believe it to be a big piece nonetheless. I'm fairly convinced that adding whitetail pressure to the mix won't benefit mule deer in this state.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

DallanC said:


> How about some hunters dont care what type of buck they shoot, and for every whitetail buck harvested its one more Mule Deer buck left alive.
> 
> -DallanC


Wish it worked like that but it doesn't! For every whitetail you have camping on the muledeer's wintering ground year round you probably loose five or more muledeer to starvation. The winter habitat can't handle the pressure of resident deer!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Whitetail deer would live in the same places our pheasants live. Habitat loss and modern farming practices are the reason pheasants are gone. It's also one of the reason whitetail and pigs dont do well in utah. If it was good habitat for whitetail they would be taking over and their not.


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## provider (Jan 17, 2011)

I completely agree with Charina. I don't understand where this notion comes from that mule deer do not do well in fragmented, urbanized areas. It defies my observations. I saw more mule deer on the Wasatch Front and in town than a lot of remote stretches in Utah. When I drive 89 in Southern Utah, I consistently see large concentrations around farms. When I go to the touristy/developed part of Zion, there are more deer there than in the high country. I think mule deer prefer people to cougars.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

One thing to remember is the deer you are talking about cannot be hunted because they live the Park, or in the city. City deer have no real predators, and have found life pretty good. City mule deer I do not consider on par with other wild mule deer. 

The areas I'm talking about are the areas along the foothills, that used to be large tracts of ag lands, large pastures, range lands, or areas along riparian corridors - again larger fields that transition into the foothills. As these larger fields are broken up into 20 and 5 acre lots with a double wide and four wheel drive, alfalfa or grain stubble are giving way to rocks, weeds, trampled down horse pens, and lawn. This transformation is not so friendly to mule deer.


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## Charina (Aug 16, 2011)

provider said:


> I completely agree with Charina. I don't understand where this notion comes from that mule deer do not do well in fragmented, urbanized areas.


Having gotten some better sleep last night, I'd like to come back and temper my point, or at least add some caveats.

Evidently mulies _can_ do well in fragmented medium density (1/4-1/2 acre lots with some native oak ravines not too far away) residential areas. But these bountiful Bountiful City deer have been here for many generations. They have adapted.

The current adults were fawned and grew up in the city. I watched two fawns regularly frequent my watermellon and bean patch all through the summer, watching them grow, and if I didn't regularly hoot and holler and charge them, I'm sure they wouldn't bat an eye at my presence at this point. Just two nights ago when I went outside at 7pm to work on a car, I was startled when my driveway flood light came on to find what appears to be one of these two fawns just 20-25 feet away. It didn't bolt. It just stood there staring at me until I took a couple steps directly towards it hollering at it to 'get lost'.

Just an opinion, but I don't think you can get the 'wild' mulies to behave the same. Momma teaches them to move out the moment the humans move in. It takes time, perhaps several generations, for them to 'learn' they don't have to run from every biped.


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## WasatchOutdoors (Sep 26, 2007)

I'm going to go on record agreeing with Charina. We have muleys that frequent our family farm in Perry, and have had the occasional whitetail sighting. The mule deer that inhabit our farm over the course of the last 30 years have adapted to the huge number of houses that have been built in the area. They no longer behave the way a "wild" mule deer does. And by that I am not suggesting that they are in any way tame. They've been hunted, and have developed tactics much more in line with what would be considered traditional whitetail behavior, using the small patches of cover to their advantage, and bouncing around from one small farm to the next to avoid pressure. Whereas traditional "wild" muleys, when pressured might disappear from that ridge you bumped them on, move 5 to 10 miles away and not show up on that same ridge again for months. 

As far as the cohabitation goes, I would dare to venture a guess that in the areas they both utilize, they might not be competing for the same feed sources. I can't imagine whitetails relishing mountain mahogany the way muleys seem to. And on our farm we see the mule deer utilizing the edge of our orchards pulling off the tender new growth from the cherry trees the most frequently, whereas the occasional white tail sighting is usually with the deer standing out on the edge of the alfalfa field eating the alfalfa, weeds and clover along the ditchline.


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## BHuertaBeruben (12 mo ago)

I wonder, where can I find a route of whitetailed deer in Springville, Utah? It is impressive how they deal with the city environment and still crossing streets. They wander around certain places across the city. Thanks.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

BHuertaBeruben said:


> I wonder, where can I find a route of whitetailed deer in Springville, Utah? It is impressive how they deal with the city environment and still crossing streets. They wander around certain places across the city. Thanks.


I too am a human person real guy


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

johnnycake said:


> BHuertaBeruben said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder, where can I find a route of whitetailed deer in Springville, Utah? It is impressive how they deal with the city environment and still crossing streets. They wander around certain places across the city. Thanks.
> ...


I've seen some strange first post but this one takes the award on a 7+ year old thread at that.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

BHuertaBeruben said:


> I wonder, where can I find a route of whitetailed deer in Springville, Utah? It is impressive how they deal with the city environment and still crossing streets. They wander around certain places across the city. Thanks.


This buck had a route in Springville Utah a couple years ago. I would love to find his route again. Can you help me? (I do realize this is a mule deer.)


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Ahhhh, 2014! Those pre-2020 years were some good ones, weren't they?


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> I too am a human person real guy


Send bob and vagene pics. I will treat you like Princess beautiful lady!


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

colorcountrygunner said:


> Send bob and vagene pics. I will treat you like Princess beautiful lady!


Instructions unclear. Juevos stuck in toaster. Please advise


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

It all depends. 

I know there are some on the Weber, Bear River, and Little Bear River. 

They are just not in a big numbers. 

Once Whitetails start to overlap in big numbers there tend to be more problems during the rut, where a whitetail buck will kick the chit out of a mule deer buck. 

The Black Hills would be an example of this.

If there is a river bottom and mountain habitat, then they segregate with their prefered habitat. 

There are a lot of places in Wyoming like this. 

Whitetails in the river bottoms and Muleys in the hills.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> Once Whitetails start to overlap in big numbers there tend to be more problems during the rut, where a whitetail buck will kick the chit out of a mule deer buck.


That recent video posted on UWN with the locked up bucks doesn't bear that out. The muley buck killed that whitetail through pure exhaustion.

-DallanC


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