# Families hunting together BS



## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

Ok I'm so tired of hearing we want to hunt as families. Were done with the 70's people we no longer need to have grandpa, and grandma, and uncle, and aunt have tags so we can shoot all there animals. Thats why were in the spot were in, to much party hunting and way to many tags. Tags need to be controlled and were headed in the right way. So what if you don't get a tag every year, I'm still going to go with one of my kids or with my brother or friend. The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that, if you want to be with your families hell stay home for family home evening on Mondays.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Yea your are right, its stupid of me to want to hunt with my boy, to pass along what I learned and to share experiences. 


-DallanC


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

So your saying DALLAN that if your boy draws and you dont your going to stay home and pout and not take your boy, its not about you...


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Speak for yourself Ruger because I couldn't disagree more. 

Some of you still don't seem to understand that cutting tags is fine if that's what's best for the herd. The purpose of cutting tags in this case IS TO GROW BIGGER BUCKS! So no I am not willing to pass up hunting every year for that purpose.

Don't believe me? Consider this. The success rate on the deer rifle hunt in todays world is about the same as it has been at any time in Utah. That means you have as much of a chance of killing a deer in Utah today if you are a tag holder than you have had at any point in our history. The problem though is you aren't seeing enough 4 points right? Come on be honest about it.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

My boy cant even put in for a deer tag for several more years. I'm extremely concerned what the draw odds and point creep will be when he can even *start* putting in.

You are painting with a mighty wide brush Ruger.


-DallanC


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

Well Dallan the state is just trying to make it for your son will be able to hunt for deer in a few years. If not maybe your son won't be able to kill a deer and enjoy it like we all have. Once again its not about you its about our future and your son's future.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Ruger67 said:


> Well Dallan the state is just trying to make it for your son will be able to hunt for deer in a few years. If not maybe your son won't be able to kill a deer and enjoy it like we all have. Once again its not about you its about our future and your son's future.


Again you would have a point if the recent tag cuts would benefits deer herds. They do not, they only grow a FEW bigger bucks.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

All this wonderful change takes place the first year my daughter is eligible for the draw not to mention that when they reduced the general tags by 13000 that means there are 2600 less youth tags also. I am looking at all options right now including moving to another state that is more friendly to hunters and hunting traditions. Rugers argument about party hunting is hyperbole as it is a very minute minority that do that anymore. I have hunted under that system and getting a tag once every 5-6 yrs is not real conducive to holding a kids interest or even an adults for that matter. Think about this Ruger hunters are already a minute minority in the general populace every hunter that drops out or isn't recruited is another nail in the coffin for everybody other than the select few that can afford to shell out high 5 and six figure amounts to secure a tag you advocate taking away my ability today and you are actually advocating taking yours away tomorrow unless you are among the ultra wealthy.


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## wileywapati (Sep 9, 2007)

Ruger if you are trolling, I ain't biting. If you really believe what you wrote God help us all.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Is god the answer? Hmmm.......


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## Hunt1Fish2 (Dec 19, 2007)

You are totally correct Ruger67. Family hunting is BS. When I first started hunting our group numbered from 12 to 16. I am the only one who still hunts. Congratulations, you’ve won. Family hunting is dead, at least for me it is.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Ruger67 said:


> The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that, if you want to be with your families hell stay home for family home evening on Mondays.


What!!? Did you really say that? My hunting has always been a family activity, along with the camping , scouting, wood gathering, planning, setting up camp. Sure I love my solo hunts but nothing gives me more pleasure than watching my kids and family get their deer or just have fun with the rest of us.



DallanC said:


> You are painting with a mighty wide brush Ruger.-DallanC


.

Well said Dallan.


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

It is dumb to argue that making it more difficult to draw multiple tags for a hunt, whether it be dad and sons or you and your hunting buddy of no relation, is good for the future support of hunting in any way. 

Continue to push this stupid argument at the risk of losing ALL credibility.


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## mikevanwilder (Nov 11, 2008)

10000ft. said:


> It is dumb to argue that making it more difficult to draw multiple tags for a hunt, whether it be dad and sons or you and your hunting buddy of no relation, is good for the future support of hunting in any way.
> 
> Continue to push this stupid argument at the risk of losing ALL credibility.


+10000


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

:shock: This is the most selfish S.O.B. thread I've ever read. I'm honestly in shock.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

It 's only over because of people like ruger67.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

BirdDogger said:


> :shock: This is the most selfish S.O.B. thread I've ever read. I'm honestly in shock.


A-FREAKING-MEN!

Either this is nothing more than a troll thread, or............


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## bigthree (Nov 28, 2009)

DallanC said:


> My boy cant even put in for a deer tag for several more years. I'm extremely concerned what the draw odds and point creep will be when he can even *start* putting in.
> 
> You are painting with a mighty wide brush Ruger.
> 
> -DallanC


You better hope that you can hunt with you're son.My boy was able to hunt when he was 14,16,18 and that was central tags . and that was under the program we have now.If you hunt southern goodluck.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

I will bite on this one, in a way I agree with this guy. Family hunting/ tradition doesn't have to end with deer hunting. There is alot of hunting opportunity out there, to say that this is the end of a tradition is both lazy and ignorant.

If providing this family tradition is so important to you, then you might have to switch seasons, or species that you hunt. If you wont give your kids that, then it is the parent's who are taking away hunters, not the DWR.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

> The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that





> The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that





> The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that





> The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that





> The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that


Unbelievable. :roll:


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

utfireman said:


> I will bite on this one, in a way I agree with this guy. Family hunting/ tradition doesn't have to end with deer hunting. *There is alot of hunting opportunity out there, to say that this is the end of a tradition is both lazy and ignorant.*
> If providing this family tradition is so important to you, then you might have to switch seasons, or species that you hunt. If you wont give your kids that, then it is the parent's who are taking away hunters, not the DWR.


Do some of you think before you open your mouth?


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm saying lets find this Ruger67 guy and string his a** up. The nerve...tar and feather the scoundrel, hell, let's waterboard the the bastage. Kick his arse, cut his n*ts off and feed'em to the hogs, ban him from MLS games for life... make him drive a Subaru Forester in public...let me at 'im, I'll....   ... come on guys, admit it, he got you good!


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## hunter_orange13 (Oct 11, 2008)

I will trade any good day of the year to spend a few hours hunting with my dad and brother. We don't party hunt, and the hunting with a family is not even close to being over. It's more important to me that we're there, spending father son time together then to shoot a deer. If I don't draw out, so what? I'll still be going to deer camp. 

I'm still trying to figure out if you're being serious or not..


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## TopofUtahArcher (Sep 9, 2009)

No Ruger, it is about you and your selfish desire to kill a bigger buck than the Jones' next door or to be on the cover of next month's issue of Horn Porn Monthly. Some of us want to keep it a family show. Thanks for your selfishness though.


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## Pudge (Nov 24, 2009)

It's all about family hunting for me.


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Pudge said:


> It's all about family hunting for me.


So everyone in the family has to have a tag to be considered family hunting?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> I'm saying lets find this Ruger67 guy and string his a** up. The nerve...tar and feather the scoundrel, hell, let's waterboard the the bastage. Kick his arse, cut his n*ts off and feed'em to the hogs, ban him from MLS games for life... make him drive a Subaru Forester in public...let me at 'im, I'll....   ... come on guys, admit it, he got you good!


 :shock:

ah....what's a "MLS game"?


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

utfireman said:


> Family hunting/ tradition doesn't have to end with deer hunting.


In a way, I will agree with you. However, there is a lot of competition out there with hunting for the childs interest and for establishing new family traditions. Hunters are declining as a percentage of the populace as it is. Taking away opportunity will only make it worse.

Fewer hunters will mean fewer people who will fight for hunting rights in the decades to come when PETA makes their political moves. It also will mean that people will be more interested in having wolves dine on our game than human hunters and will support the enviros that will make it happen. It is not good. Have any or you ever been to Europe?

Finally, my only son is 2 years old. ( My girls like to fish, but don't seem to be interested in hunting at this time) I would give almost anything to hunt deer or elk with him the same way that my father did with me when I was a youth. I wonder what the chances are that I will?


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> BPturkeys said:
> 
> 
> > I'm saying lets find this Ruger67 guy and string his a** up. The nerve...tar and feather the scoundrel, hell, let's waterboard the the bastage. Kick his arse, cut his n*ts off and feed'em to the hogs, ban him from MLS games for life... make him drive a Subaru Forester in public...let me at 'im, I'll....   ... come on guys, admit it, he got you good!
> ...


It's the worst possible torture a non homosexual man can endure. Watching a Major League Soccer game.


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

fixed blade said:


> wyogoob said:
> 
> 
> > BPturkeys said:
> ...


It's the worst possible torture a non homosexual man can endure. Watching a Major League Soccer game.[/quote
.
I think someone wants to fight, Awesome. And for me wanting to kill nothing but monsters and trophy's your alll wrong for me, I'll shoot a small buck or elk any day. Its about hunting and killing sh**. A trophy is in the eyes of the beholder not worrying about what your buddies think, and thats where most of all of you fit in...


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

BPturkeys said:


> I'm saying lets find this Ruger67 guy and string his a** up. The nerve...tar and feather the scoundrel, hell, let's waterboard the the bastage. Kick his arse, cut his n*ts off and feed'em to the hogs, ban him from MLS games for life... make him drive a Subaru Forester in public...let me at 'im, I'll....   ... come on guys, admit it, he got you good!


I had to drive a Gaybaru Forester in public up in Alaska. I rented a SUV online before I left but that's all they had when I got to Ketchikan. It's hard to see the roads very well when your ducking down so nobody can see you. :mrgreen:

Oh ya..where were we..."hunting as a family"...continue.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

Lets see, I'm guessing that you are late teens to early twenties, youngest in a family of oh....12 or so. Your father (according to you) loved all your older brothers more which is why all you ever got was the old hand me downs when it game to hunting equipment. You always got the smallest buck (if any at all) while hunting with the older brothers and father which meant months of ridicule. Now you have moved away from home lost contact with your brothers and are still hoping to make your father proud with a big one some day...

Am I close??

Its obvious you didn't grow up like most of us older guys who would almost rather not hunt if it meant NOT hunting with your family.


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

*ALRIGHT ALREADY ON THE SUBARU FORESTER!!* :evil: I'm 6'3 240lbs and far from Homosexual. However, I must admit seeings how I drive all over the western US and needed a small AWD or 4WD car/truck that got good gas mileage and that I could put samples in and keep them out of the elements I bought a 2005 Subaru Forester  . Trust me when I say there has not been a day go by that my hunting buddy and even a few of my clients resist the urge tell me how "gay" my work car is lol. That being said, the heated seats and 30mpg are nice :lol: :lol:


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

I would like to know the answer to this.
Does everyone in the family that can, have to have a tag to be considered family hunting?


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## Truelife (Feb 6, 2009)

Brookie said:


> Does everyone in the family that can, have to have a tag to be considered family hunting?


It certainly doesn't in mine Brookie, we will go even if one person has a tag but it will change the hunt/event for sure.


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## Uni (Dec 5, 2010)

My father and I have never drawn out the same year ever since general buck went to the draw. Yet, we have still gone out every year and had a blast. Hunting for me isn't about carrying a rifle, it's about spending time in the outdoors.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> *Lets see, I'm guessing that you are late teens to early twenties, youngest in a family of oh....12 or so. Your father (according to you) loved all your older brothers more which is why all you ever got was the old hand me downs when it game to hunting equipment. You always got the smallest buck (if any at all) while hunting with the older brothers and father* which meant months of ridicule. Now you have moved away from home lost contact with your brothers and are still hoping to make your father proud with a big one some day...
> 
> Am I close??
> 
> Its obvious you didn't grow up like most of us older guys who would almost rather not hunt if it meant NOT hunting with your family.


And don't forget he likes soccer, need I say more?


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## IDHunter (Dec 17, 2007)

Brookie said:


> I would like to know the answer to this.
> Does everyone in the family that can, have to have a tag to be considered family hunting?


I don't think it does with most of us who have had lots of opportunities in the past. However, try to get a kid excited about hunting when their first general season tag will come at 17 or 18. Especially when their more interested in girls, video games, sports, cars, and texting on the phone.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Brookie said:


> I would like to know the answer to this.
> Does everyone in the family that can, have to have a tag to be considered family hunting?


In short the answer is no but that's not the real issue on hunting with family and friends.

Sometimes friends and family do draw but draw DIFFERENT tags. The micro unit situation will make that scenario even worse. So then you either hunt apart or one of you eats your tag to be with others. Yes you can put in as groups but the group draw size has a limit. I don't even know if they'll let that continue with the recent changes.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

At what point does it stop? The trend is continuing down a road of taking away opportunity in lieu of bigger antlers. At what point does the family hunting argument become valid for you nay sayers? Of course we can still get out and hunt with our families without tags, that's not the point. The point is that everything encompassed by hunting as a family, tag in hand is a part of our heritage and to have ANYTHING taken from us (These are our animals), against the wishes of the majority, for policies that have no positive net biological effects is downright despicable. 

"We the people", remember?


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

When did killing a big buck become more important than recreating with family and friends? When did the kill become the payoff rather than the hunt itself?


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## Ruger67 (Apr 22, 2008)

Bo0YaA said:


> Lets see, I'm guessing that you are late teens to early twenties, youngest in a family of oh....12 or so. Your father (according to you) loved all your older brothers more which is why all you ever got was the old hand me downs when it game to hunting equipment. You always got the smallest buck (if any at all) while hunting with the older brothers and father which meant months of ridicule. Now you have moved away from home lost contact with your brothers and are still hoping to make your father proud with a big one some day...
> 
> Am I close??
> 
> Its obvious you didn't grow up like most of us older guys who would almost rather not hunt if it meant NOT hunting with your family.


Well BooyaA your not even close, I'm in my late 40's and no my brothers haven't even came close to what I've shot. 6 animals in P&Y and enjoy shooting a spike elk every year, and if i have to I'll shoot that 2 point buck if the chance comes...


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

I think spending quality time as a family is important. But using the excuse that reducing tags is going to destroy a family because they can't hunt together is pretty stupid. I can still take my kid fishing, shed hunting, and wildlife viewing. I bond just as much with him doing that as I would harvesting a deer with him. Everyone will still be able to hunt, you just might not all get a tag in the same year. Why not take advantage of it and still make it a family outing and help those with the tags. For heck sakes! You can still take your family camping, shooting, and hiking. Why is it so important that 10 members of a family ALL carry a gun during the season. Is that really the only way a family can have fun these days? 

I just enjoy being out with the family. Doesn't matter if I have a tag or not, I still get excited to see friends and family harvest animals. 

This is what I originally thought "Ruger" was implying, but I guess he is just a wiener afterall :mrgreen:


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## Twitchell (Apr 14, 2010)

Well said HJB, my thoughts exactly. When I read the first post. That is how I took it. The days of everyone having a tag is gone. But it doesn't have to end family hunting.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

HJB said:


> I think spending quality time as a family is important. But using the excuse that reducing tags is going to destroy a family because they can't hunt together is pretty stupid.


So is your comment and I'll tell you why. I've noticed that in several of your posts you like to take things to the n'th degree. NO ONE is saying that reducing tags is going to destroy a family....not even close. We are saying that the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DEER HUNT IS DOING IT WITH OUR FAMILIES!!! We want to preserve that for obvious reasons.

There is a grand canyon of difference between what you are saying and what people are really complaining about. Time to get in touch with the real issue!


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## Twitchell (Apr 14, 2010)

........some of you guys need to grow up.........wow


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

HJB said:


> But using the excuse that reducing tags is going to destroy a family because they can't hunt together is pretty stupid.


Destroy? No. Diminish for no reason? Absolutely.

Sincerely,

-A grown up.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Maybe so, my wife tells me that all the time. 

All I'm saying is some of you are twisting the issue into something that it's not. We aren't saying that hunting as a family, being together as a family, or recreating as a family depends on the deer hunt. All we are saying is that as far as the deer hunt goes we enjoy doing it with family and friends. If we can't do that what's the point of going on the deer hunt? Might as well pick up something else. But they are my deer as much as yours so as long as I have a vote I want to preserve being able to hunt with my family on the deer hunt.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

Twitchell said:


> Well said HJB, my thoughts exactly. When I read the first post. That is how I took it. The days of everyone having a tag is gone. But it doesn't have to end family hunting.


It isn't about having a tag. It's about being able to draw the same tag. It just became much more difficult to do that. Me and Dad draw unit 10 while Mom and my brother draw unit 15. That's part of the issue here.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

bullsnot said:


> NO ONE is saying that reducing tags is going to destroy a family....not even close.


+1

I am quite confident that my family will be just as strong whether my boy (or I) hunt or not. What I am concerned about is NEW HUNTER RECRUITMENT! Making it harder to hunt as a family will cause fewer youth to pick it up. Some of you seem to be oblivious to what is happening in society. Fewer hunters in the population mean more power to anti hunting and animal rights groups. I can tell you that THEY are having no trouble at all adding to their ranks. So the long term problem is not that families could be destroyed, but the sport of hunting itself.

If you don't believe me, consider that just 2 decades ago, about 1/5th of the state would head out to hunt deer. Schools would close and local business patterns would change. Now? "Opening day" is hardly something that even moves the needle for most people, and the majority of Utahns are non hunters. (and hunters are declining as a percentage of the population every year)


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## Brookie (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. I don't think the issue is a family issue. Its about opportunity to hunt, when, where and how we would like. Correct, Many feel this 2012 change is a loss to this opportunity.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

feel?

its a fact... has been since the forced "choose your weapon"


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

First, the only thing gayer than a Subaru Forster is a mini van with an Obama/Biden sticker on the bumper. o-|| 

As far as family hunting goes my brothers and sisters, their kids, our kids, my parents, we raft, camp, jeep, ski, travel... probably 20+ nights a year together. Believe me if one of my brothers can't draw a tag we will still spend lots of time in the out doors together that year but he may decided it is hard to justify taking off work and leaving his wife and kids to come stoke the fire, cook and do some hiking for 4-6 days. I'm glad you and yours have evolved to such passive little hunters that you are content to have one tag in camp but I still would choose to "HUNT" every year and so do the other men in my family.

How many hunters can crash through the forest with one tag holder before you say "this kind of sucks".


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## Bo0YaA (Sep 29, 2008)

10000ft. said:


> First, the only thing gayer than a Subaru Forster is a mini van with an Obama/Biden sticker on the bumper. o-||
> 
> Had to bring up the Forester again didnt you
> 
> How many hunters can crash through the forest with one tag holder before you say "this kind of sucks". Couldn't agree more with that comment


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

Bo0YaA said:


> 10000ft. said:
> 
> 
> > First, the only thing gayer than a Subaru Forster is a mini van with an Obama/Biden sticker on the bumper. o-||
> ...


BooyaA I'm just messing with all you Subaru owners. One of the best hunters/outdoors man I know swears by the Forester.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Follow the MONEY.

It's what its about. I've said it 3 million times give or take a couple hundred thousand that its where we're headed. Its all about MONEY. 
I've pounded on some hard heads with a sledge hammer on some of these threads without making a dent. 
Is it starting to make more sense now ??????


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## hazmat (Apr 23, 2009)

Ruger67 said:


> Ok I'm so tired of hearing we want to hunt as families. Were done with the 70's people we no longer need to have grandpa, and grandma, and uncle, and aunt have tags so we can shoot all there animals. Thats why were in the spot were in, to much party hunting and way to many tags. Tags need to be controlled and were headed in the right way. So what if you don't get a tag every year, I'm still going to go with one of my kids or with my brother or friend. The family thing is done and gone. We need to get over that, if you want to be with your families hell stay home for family home evening on Mondays.


and winner of the idiot of the year is ruger.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

bullsnot said:


> * We are saying that the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DEER HUNT IS DOING IT WITH OUR FAMILIES!!!*


I understand that. What I'm trying to say is why is it so important that every member of the family carry a gun during the hunt? Why is the *"MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE HUNT" *the kill??? IMO You *can* have a successful deer hunt with your family every year whether every person has a tag or not. Why can't some people in the family hunt, and others help glass and push for you? I just don't understand why it's such a Major deal for a whole family to have tags.

When you consider the Party Hunting situation, then I can understand why people would be upset. The family gets 10 tags and the family shoots deer until 10 are dead. Grandama and little suzie have tags, but never have to leave the trailer.

I think the "MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE HUNT" is just being out with the family and enjoying the outdoors. If having a tag in your hand is the most important thing on a family outing, you have a problem. That's all I'm saying.

BTW- Quit keeping such a close eye on me, you're scaring me :lol:


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## clean pass through (Nov 26, 2007)

Sad day when hunters disregard hunting with family, so they can kill a bigger deer without having to try harder to find them. I love hunting with or without family, however I would much rather have my 7 year old tagging along than killing a freaking deer. Unfortunatly, money is limited for most and if people dont have an excuse to get out in the mountains (DEER TAG) they will not. Just further assaulting hunter retention IMO.


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## bullsnot (Aug 10, 2010)

HJB said:


> I understand that. What I'm trying to say is why is it so important that every member of the family carry a gun during the hunt? Why is the *"MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE HUNT" *the kill???


It's not about the kill and I don't think it's important for everyone to have a tag. I think several tag holders certainly makes the experience better. As others have mentioned it's kind of hard to convince uncle Ted to hunt with you for 5 days and hike all over God's creation without a tag in his pocket. After a day and a half he'll lose interest, besides it will be hard to convince him to take that much work off as well.

Besides with the micro units it will be MUCH more difficult for families to draw the same unit. Uncle ted will get unit 15, mom will get unit 21, and dad I will get unit 17. See where I'm going?



HJB said:


> I think the "MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE HUNT" is just being out with the family and enjoying the outdoors. If having a tag in your hand is the most important thing on a family outing, you have a problem. That's all I'm saying.


This is where we still aren't quite on the same page. We shouldn't confuse family activities with the deer hunt. We are just talking about the deer hunt here and having family members that I can hunt side by side with is an important factor in making the deer hunt the best experience it can be for me. To each their own and if you don't feel the same way I have no issue with that at all, but you shouldn't have an issue with me if I do.

One thing to consider is that even though the hunt isn't about the kill, the kill is still part of the hunt. With multiple tags in camp there is a greater chance that everyone will be able to experience that part of the hunt. It's really nice when you have little ones that you want to give that experience to.



HJB said:


> BTW- Quit keeping such a close eye on me, you're scaring me :lol:


Yeah I guess I can see how that would spook you. -)O(- Sorry I have a memory like an elephant so I remember a lot of peoples posts. Of course you never know what kind of people you'll come across on the internet.


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## HJB (May 22, 2008)

bullsnot said:


> HJB said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that. What I'm trying to say is why is it so important that every member of the family carry a gun during the hunt? Why is the *"MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE HUNT" *the kill???
> ...


Understood. 
Hopefully you can put in for the same unit together and draw as a group then.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

If we're running on "hope", hopefully this unit management BS never sees daylight,


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