# felons/permits???



## Fowlmouth

I wonder how many big game permits are issued in the draw to felons that can't legally carry a firearm or hunt? I'm assuming it happens and it takes away from hunters that are eligible. Are there methods the DWR uses to weed out these peoples applications or is checking the "NO" boxes on the application where it asks if you have been convicted of a crime good enough?


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## lunkerhunter2

I am sure you know the answer to that question based on track records. I know for a fact that a felon can buy a permit, they just can't carry a gun or be with anyone who is. Kind of like the bunny humpers that do the same thing. They buy the permits and don't use them(although i bet the felons still do).


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## truemule

lunkerhunter2 said:


> they just can't carry a gun or be with anyone who is.


This just like all other laws though, it is only enforced if the person is caught in the act. Also in the middle of the mountain range it is kind of hard for the Sherriff or fish cop to run your inforamtion. As long as you have ID and a license they're usually not going to know anything is wrong. (assuming of course you are not blatently breaking other laws or acting overly wierd making them suspicious enough to take it further).

I'm not making excuses just letting you know it can and does happen. I know this because I was one of them. When I was 18 I did some stupid stuff and was convicted of a crime. I owned guns at the time it happened. I was never asked to sell or store them elsewhere. I hunted the first few years unaware that I was breaking any laws. When I found out, I had one year left before I could expunge my record. I saw no issues with continuing for that one year since I knew that part of life was behind me. I had my record expunged the next year and haven't looked back since. You can cast me into the fire if you would like. I am just conveying personal experience.

The kicker in all this is that I am now going into law enforcement.


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## jungle

truemule said:


> lunkerhunter2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> they just can't carry a gun or be with anyone who is.
> 
> 
> 
> This just like all other laws though, it is only enforced if the person is caught in the act. Also in the middle of the mountain range it is kind of hard for the Sherriff or fish cop to run your inforamtion. As long as you have ID and a license they're usually not going to know anything is wrong. (assuming of course you are not blatently breaking other laws or acting overly wierd making them suspicious enough to take it further).
> 
> I'm not making excuses just letting you know it can and does happen. I know this because I was one of them. When I was 18 I did some stupid stuff and was convicted of a crime. I owned guns at the time it happened. I was never asked to sell or store them elsewhere. I hunted the first few years unaware that I was breaking any laws. When I found out, I had one year left before I could expunge my record. I saw no issues with continuing for that one year since I knew that part of life was behind me. I had my record expunged the next year and haven't looked back since. You can cast me into the fire if you would like. I am just conveying personal experience.
> 
> The kicker in all this is that I am now going into law enforcement.
Click to expand...

Good on ya for your honesty, getting the record expunged; and for stepping up to law enforcement.


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## lehi

Can't they technically use archery equipment or muzzleloaders?


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## Moostickles

Nope, both are considered "dangerous weapons"


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## Al Hansen

I think a couple of years ago they cross referenced the info and nailed a bunch. :mrgreen:


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## stimmie78

Al Hansen said:


> I think a couple of years ago they cross referenced the info and nailed a bunch. :mrgreen:


I think it should be done every year in July


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## luv2fsh&hnt

The last I checked into the felons and weapons deal what I found was that archery and muzzleloaders were permissible for felons. At that time felons were barred from owning or handling firearms. Obviously archery equipment is not a firearm and at that time muzzleloading equipment fell outside the federal definition of firearm. Perhaps the law and or definitions have changed since then I am not sure. I think one law that has changed is you no longer have to be a convicted felon to be barred from firearm ownership. I believe the law actually bars anyone that has been convicted of any offense that could carry a term of incarceration of more than 1 year. There are some LE folks and lawyers on this forum maybe they could shed some light on the subject. That said anyone can apply for a permit they haven't broken the law until they go into the field with a gun.


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## wyogoob

lunkerhunter2 said:


> I am sure you know the answer to that question based on track records. I know for a fact that a felon can buy a permit, they just can't carry a gun or be with anyone who is. Kind of like the bunny humpers that do the same thing. They buy the permits and don't use them(although i bet the felons still do).


Yep.


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## coyoteslayer

They get caught sooner or later. I worked in the same office with a guy who was a DWR investigator, and he caught people for fraud and people that have been convicted. They can run background checks on people or have a list of people who are felons.


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## Renegade

Felons can hunt with a bow or muzzle loader. They are not guns nor are they classified as dangerous weapons or whatever.

It's up to the state to determine who is eligible to purchase permits. The permit only means that you can possess an animal listed on the tag. Sounds silly, but it's true. The loophole is that it must be taken legally-so that means you have to kill it-but, if the state takes your right to possess a gun away, then gives you a tag to shoot an animal-they are aiding and abetting a felon in commission of a crime (In my opinion).

I believe, not sure-but I kinda remember, that you must check a box that says you can legally hunt -the method you are applying for-right?

Felons are punished too broadly -also my opinion- a non-violent felon (ie: insider trader for example) should not be barred from firearm ownership, but that's a whole nutha thread.


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## TAK

Renegade said:


> Felons can hunt with a bow or muzzle loader. They are not guns nor are they classified as dangerous weapons or whatever. :arrow: Wrong
> 
> It's up to the state to determine who is eligible to purchase permits. The permit only means that you can possess an animal listed on the tag. Sounds silly, but it's true. The loophole is that it must be taken legally-so that means you have to kill it-but, if the state takes your right to possess a gun away, then gives you a tag to shoot an animal-they are aiding and abetting a felon in commission of a crime (In my opinion). :arrow: wrong
> 
> I believe, not sure-but I kinda remember, that you must check a box that says you can legally hunt -the method you are applying for-right?
> 
> Felons are punished too broadly -also my opinion- a non-violent felon (ie: insider trader for example) should not be barred from firearm ownership, but that's a whole nutha thread.


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## Huge29

I am going to have to side with TAK on this one knowing his credentials.
I know of a guy who has no less than at least one felony who I see fairly regularly hunting, I would think and hope that the cross checking were done every year personally.


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## elkfromabove

2010 Utah Big Game Guidebook/Proclamation, page 40, sidebar, "Are you allowed to possess a weapon?" (Note that it includes parolees, drug addicts, the mentally ill, illegal aliens, dishonorably discharged vets, and self-denounced ex-citizens as well as felons.)

Do we have a lot of those people hunting as well? Probably. Essentially, they're poachers! Turn 'em in!!!!


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## Fowlmouth

I guess by checking all of the boxes "NO" on the application where it asks if you are a felon or have been convicted of certain crimes is more of a waiver to protect the DWR then anything else. I think the $10 application fee should include a background check as well for each applicant. This would possibly weed out the felons, mentally ill and illegal immigrants from maybe obtaining permits that should go to eligible hunters. JMO!


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## truemule

Tak is right, a Bow is considered a firearm. Look up the code and read it, its clear enough that anyone would understand that a bow is a firearm and so is a muzzleloader. That is how I found out that i was doing something wrong in the first place. I was investigating my offense and if it excluded me from owning a firearm. Though I did plead guilty to a felony it was a plea in abeyance and the charge was reduced to a misdemeanor once i finished probation (upon payment of my fines I was released, 2 days). I was told that I technically wasn't doing anything wrong but until my record was expunged it would be safer to avoid the situation. With only having a year left and being it was bow hunting I gambled and I took the risk, even though it was considered a firearm. I proabably wouldn't do that today but I was younger and single with little to think about then.

A simple answer is if you can kill something with it and it throws a projectile of any sort it is likely a firearm or dangerous weapon.


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## Fishrmn

A bow is NOT a firearm. It is a dangerous weapon. And many cities treat the discharge of a bow the same as the discharge of a firearm. A muzzleloader is a firearm.

Copied from the Utah Code:
*(9) (a) "Firearm" means a pistol, revolver, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, rifle or sawed-off rifle, or a device that could be used as a dangerous weapon from which is expelled a projectile by action of an explosive.*
(b) As used in Sections 76-10-526 and 76-10-527, "firearm" does not include an antique firearm.
(10) "Firearms transaction record form" means a form created by the division to be completed by a person purchasing, selling, or transferring a handgun from a dealer in the state.
(11) "Fully automatic weapon" means any firearm which fires, is designed to fire, or can be readily restored to fire, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function of the trigger.
(12) (a) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged, the length of which, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed 12 inches.
(b) As used in Sections 76-10-520, 76-10-521, and 76-10-522, "handgun" and "pistol or revolver" do not include an antique firearm.

Here's the link to the Utah Code that explains it: http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050100.htm

Fishrmn


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## silvertip

elkfromabove said:


> 2010 Utah Big Game Guidebook/Proclamation, page 40, sidebar, "Are you allowed to possess a weapon?" (Note that it includes parolees, drug addicts, the mentally ill, illegal aliens, dishonorably discharged vets, and self-denounced ex-citizens as well as felons.)
> 
> Do we have a lot of those people hunting as well? Probably. Essentially, they're poachers! Turn 'em in!!!!


Poachers? C'mon man lets keep this fairly realistic.
I had a very similar situation as truemule. I got caught with a bag of wacky tobaccy when I was 18. I got my record expunged a few years later. I hunted all that time. I will tell you this. I was not poaching. For hells sake.

People make silly mistakes and they get lumped in with all the other trash that is out there. It is not really an even playing field.
Being caught with some pot as a kid does NOT mean you are a drug addict. But it does put you on the black list.


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## truemule

Fishrmn,

If you read my post I sadi it is *considered* a firearm. Legally it may not be, but if you are a felon and stopped rest assured you will be in trouble if you have a bow and arrow in your possession. Most people and LEO don't make the distinction between dangerous weapon and firearm. Luckily for them the laws are broad enough in most cases taht they don't need to make this distinction in the field. The DA will just amend the charges later.


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## izzydog

I also had a similar situation but my question is this, can you still apply for preference or bonus points while on probation or do you lose all of your points because you can't apply for a certain number of years?


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## truemule

izzydog said:


> I also had a similar situation but my question is this, can you still apply for preference or bonus points while on probation or do you lose all of your points because you can't apply for a certain number of years?


I think your fine to buy the points. Some may have moral objections but I don't think your violating any laws. I would have to read up to make sure though.


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## Treehugnhuntr

By the letter of the law, straight from a felonious friend's mouth who has investigated every possibility to be able to legally hunt, a felon cannot posses a FISHHOOK, utility knife or sharpened stick, much less a bow and arrow, muzzle loader or other 'weapon' capable of causing harm or injury.

Are LEO's going to sight you for a fishhook if you are a felon? Probably not, but it depends on the situation.

Another guy I know of (Felon) drew a North Cache LE archeryelk tag and was called by the CO in Cache county warning him that he knew he was a convicted felon and that if he saw him on the mountain he would be turning him over to the Sheriff's department, which was good to hear. He ended up turning the tag back in.


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## lunkerhunter2

truemule said:


> Fishrmn,
> 
> If you read my post I sadi it is *considered* a firearm. Legally it may not be, but if you are a felon and stopped rest assured you will be in trouble if you have a bow and arrow in your possession. Most people and LEO don't make the distinction between dangerous weapon and firearm. Luckily for them the laws are broad enough in most cases taht they don't need to make this distinction in the field. The DA will just amend the charges later.


Until recent changes in utah law, you could be charged with a loaded firearm in a vehicle if you had an arrow un-quivered in your truck. :wink:


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## izzydog

One more question to clarify. If you have paid your fines and done your so-called time on probation and had no more problems and expunge your record, you are good to go again, right?


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## TAK

izzydog said:


> One more question to clarify. If you have paid your fines and done your so-called time on probation and had no more problems and expunge your record, you are good to go again, right?


I think so.... as long as the felony is reduced......


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## mikevanwilder

TAK said:


> izzydog said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more question to clarify. If you have paid your fines and done your so-called time on probation and had no more problems and expunge your record, you are good to go again, right?
> 
> 
> 
> I think so.... as long as the felony is reduced......
Click to expand...

+1 And also no Domestic Violence charges either even if its a misdemeanor. Trust me you don't want to be caught with a Dangerous Weapon and have these restrictions!


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## Oregon88

Moostickles said:


> Nope, both are considered "dangerous weapons"


 You're wrong, just to let you know. I hate it when someone acts like they know what they're talking about. Im a felon and I can bow hunt. & from my understanding I sure as **** can hunt- though i'm not sure if I can with a muzzle loader, I don't think that should be allowed; instead of replying back to me you should call a lawyer to verify

-If one is on probation they can't have any contact with a bow, hunting knife, and a FIRE*ARM*
- If there was a crime committed with anyone of the above.


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## outdoorser

Hmmmm.... that was out of the bleu.



Oh wait, I mean blue. That^^ spelling is like the chicken stuff I just had for dinner.


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## Vanilla

Oregon88 said:


> You're wrong, just to let you know. I hate it when someone acts like they know what they're talking about. Im a felon and I can bow hunt.


That's a really strong statement...especially since you're wrong. Just this session the Utah legislature changed the law to exempt archery equipment from the 'dangerous weapon' statute when being used for hunting or recreation. If a bow and arrow wasn't a dangerous weapon before, why would they need to do that?

Again, your statement was pretty harsh. Especially considering you were wrong.


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## RandomElk16

silvertip said:


> Poachers? C'mon man lets keep this fairly realistic.
> I had a very similar situation as truemule. I got caught with a bag of wacky tobaccy when I was 18. I got my record expunged a few years later. I hunted all that time. I will tell you this. I was not poaching. For hells sake.
> 
> People make silly mistakes and they get lumped in with all the other trash that is out there. It is not really an even playing field.
> Being caught with some pot as a kid does NOT mean you are a drug addict. But it does put you on the black list.


If you have a crime, that legally bans you from hunting, then you are blacklisted. Further, if you continue to hunt, you are only adding to your rap sheet of criminal activity.

I am all for second chances, once you complete what is required. You break the law and expect not to lose privilages? That mentality doesnt teach much. My kids lose privilages for much less than criminal activity.

What is the definition of poaching if not illegally taking game?

This is a good thread, nice job to the OP. Somethin to think about.


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## Fishrmn

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> The last I checked into the felons and weapons deal what I found was that archery and muzzleloaders were permissible for felons. At that time felons were barred from owning or handling firearms. Obviously archery equipment is not a firearm and at that time muzzleloading equipment fell outside the federal definition of firearm.


Nope.



> 76-10-503. Restrictions on possession, purchase, transfer, and ownership of dangerous weapons by certain persons.
> (1) For purposes of this section:
> (a) A Category I restricted person is a person who:
> (i) has been convicted of any violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5;
> (ii) is on probation or parole for any felony;
> (iii) is on parole from a secure facility as defined in Section 62A-7-101;
> (iv) within the last 10 years has been adjudicated delinquent for an offense which if committed by an adult would have been a violent felony as defined





> 76-10-501. Definitions.
> (6) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
> (b) The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or another item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
> (i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
> (ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
> (iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
> (iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.
> (c) "Dangerous weapon" does not include an explosive, chemical, or incendiary device as defined by Section 76-10-306.
> (7) "Dealer" means a person who is:
> (a) licensed under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 923; and
> (b) engaged in the business of selling, leasing, or otherwise transferring a handgun, whether the person is a retail or wholesale dealer, pawnbroker, or otherwise.
> (8) "Enter" means intrusion of the entire body.
> (9) "Federal Firearms Licensee" means a person who:
> (a) holds a valid Federal Firearms License issued under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 923; and
> (b) is engaged in the activities authorized by the specific category of license held.
> (10) (a) "Firearm" means a pistol, revolver, shotgun, short barreled shotgun, rifle or short barreled rifle, or a device that could be used as a dangerous weapon from which is expelled a projectile by action of an explosive.


A baseball bat, if used to cause bodily harm, could be construed to be a dangerous weapon.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## NevadaMax

Fishrmn, in post #18 it mentioned "firearm doesn't include antique firearms". From my "Pawn Stars" viewing knowledge, they deal only in antique firearms, many of which they shoot on the show. If I remember correctly, they always state a particular year that marks the cutoff. Would a fully functional antique Hawkin be loophole in the code? I only ask because I have heard a few hunters rely heavily on the fact that a muzzleloader can be purchased and shipped in the mail without an FFL or background check. These guys are surely circumventing any due diligence toward the legality but I can see where lines can be misconstrued to serve a benefit for those wishing to push their luck. Any clarity would be appreciated. For the record, I have a clean record but this thread touches on a very pertinent subject that I am sure many of us can honestly say, we know someone who questioned testing these regulations. Great topic!


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## tallbuck

lunkerhunter2 said:


> I am sure you know the answer to that question based on track records. I know for a fact that a felon can buy a permit, they just can't carry a gun or be with anyone who is. Kind of like the bunny humpers that do the same thing. They buy the permits and don't use them(although i bet the felons still do).


Isn't that the Truth! Especially with Sand hill Cranes and Swans.


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## Loke

Lets not confuse the state definition of firearm, and the federal (ATF) definitions. The state has determined that a felon cannot possess a "dangerous weapon" and that includes anything that can cause serious injury or death when used in such a manner. Not all dangerous weapons are firearms, but all firearms (even the antique ones that are considered relics by the feds) are.


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## Fishrmn

^^^^ YUP ^^^^
Ain't no loophole for antiques.

⫸<{{{{{⦇°>


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## horn hunter

truemule said:


> I think your fine to buy the points. Some may have moral objections but I don't think your violating any laws. I would have to read up to make sure though.


as long as you are not on a hunting suspension, you can still buy bonus and preference points


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## martymcfly73

horn hunter said:


> as long as you are not on a hunting suspension, you can still buy bonus and preference points


Speaking from experience.


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## NevadaMax

Now just think how many felons avoid the background checks and strictly hunt game farms.....but that is a whole different thread in itself.


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## Truelife

Guys, I have a family member in this situation so I've followed it pretty close over the years. I've just skimmed over this thread so I could be wrong but I don't think anyone has mentioned this.

It HAS been illegal for felons to possess archery equipment in the past. I can prove this easily right now because the Governor just signed a bill a couple of days ago changing this.

This link gives you the info and shows you the progress and status of it.

http://le.utah.gov/~2014/bills/static/HB0268.html


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## Vanilla

Truelife, 

See post #30. You are spot on!


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## horn hunter

martymcfly73 said:


> Speaking from experience.


Huh?


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## Truelife

Thanks TS30!

Apparently people that fall into this category have just been clicking the little box that says

"..........I am not a convicted felon on the state of Utah.........." without reading it.

As I said, I have a family member this affects. I also have another family member that works in state law enforcement. He made it clear to us right up front that lots of people were doing this and that IT WAS NOT legal. If you get caught it's serious. 

For those who made one dumb mistake once and now get to wear the "felon" tag the rest of their life it was a big deal. 

The interesting thing I think is that now it has been changed. By definition "any legal weapon" includes archery equipment including crossbows now. I think this could have an impact on our wonderful LE draw system. Of course the archery odds are always better anyway, but OIL hunts don't have a "archery" hunt.


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## horn hunter

Truelife said:


> Thanks TS30!
> 
> As I said, I have a family member this affects. I also have another family member that works in state law enforcement. He made it clear to us right up front that lots of people were doing this and that IT WAS NOT legal. If you get caught it's serious.
> 
> For those who made one dumb mistake once and now get to wear the "felon" tag the rest of their life it was a big deal.


but when firearms are involved, it takes it to a federal level... i dont think you can call that one dumb mistake...


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## Truelife

horn hunter said:


> but when firearms are involved, it takes it to a federal level... i dont think you can call that one dumb mistake...


 Well you're right even if it was once is was a *DUMB *mistake


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## Vanilla

For firearms specifically, it's not even just being a felon. As stated by someone before, certain misdemeanor domestic violence offenses prohibit you from possessing a firearm as well. Yes, that includes hunting. 

Don't mess with the Feds on restricted person stuff. They don't screw around.


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## hatch000

What you mean is... 
1: not only am I in a HUGE line to draw a LE deer tag, but some of those individuals in line are felons?????? Oh lordy! 
2: you're even saying that there are felons not only applying and getting tags but they're up in the hills with guns????? NICE!
Sounds to me like the state needs to do some background checks after the application period ends to cut the list down a bit.:smile:
How bout the state clean this shiz up alittle....

Makes me wonder just how many felons have recieved a tag and actually hunted in the past 5 years...meanwhile all these mr goody two shoes who don't even get a speeding ticket get an unsuccessful letter in the mail. Just wonderful!


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## DallanC

hatch000 said:


> What you mean is...
> 1: not only am I in a HUGE line to draw a LE deer tag, but some of those individuals in line are felons?????? Oh lordy!


Absolutely... and now with the mentoring tag system they don't need to carry a gun. They can all get in and compete with you for tags, and just let a kid do the actual trigger pulling.

-DallanC


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## lunkerhunter2

DallanC said:


> Absolutely... and now with the mentoring tag system they don't need to carry a gun. They can all get in and compete with you for tags, and just let a kid do the actual trigger pulling.
> 
> -DallanC


Not true.. they cant be around anyone with a firearm either. I have a friend who is a fellon and he cant go with me hunting or target shooting legally.


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## Vanilla

Lunker, what do you mean by 'can't be around anyone with a firearm?' That is a very broad statement. 

I have guns in my safe in my house. It would not be illegal for a convicted felon to be in my house unless the sentencing judge made that a specific term of his probation. The target shooting part I get. If he is next to you while shooting there is a strong argument for constructive possession, which would be illegal. But 'being around others with guns' is a little broad, I think. What about if you're next to a cop? Or at the movie and the person in front of you is concealed carrying? See what I'm trying to say?


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## lunkerhunter2

Yep i do. My point was he cannot knowingly or willing be associated with someone( ie target practice or hunting)while they have a gun. . He cannot be with me if i am shooting anything. his wife is a sheriff too and she has to lock up her handgun at the office. Cant bring it home. Not quite so broad now?


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## Fowlmouth

lunkerhunter2 said:


> . He cannot be with me if i am shooting anything. his wife is a sheriff too and she has to lock up her handgun at the office. Cant bring it home. Not quite so broad now?


The movie "Raising Arizona" just came to mind. I hope their names aren't Hi & Ed.


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## Vanilla

Lunker, 

That's interesting. I'm aware of the federal firearms laws. But I'm unaware of any prohibition besides "possession." Two kinds of possession: Actual and constructive. Of course, constructive possession, especially in your own home, can include A LOT of things. 

I wonder if your friend had specific probation restrictions or if he has just decided to avoid any possible gray area to keep himself safe from facing 15 years in federal prison. Either way, the law doesn't say anything about being around someone with a gun. Just that they can't possess one. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## Truelife

I think Lunker is correct. My family member is the same way. I don't know what the specified "distance" is, but I know that a felon can't be around anything that can be classified as a "dangerous weapon". That description can be VERY broad depending on what extent an officer wants to take it to.

This person in my family was told that could even be a baseball bat if a law enforcement person decided so.

I think those laws go much deeper than many realize, or live by. Generally there is no enforcement of them and I'm sure that's why. But it's one of those things that if you get caught for something else they could always bring it into the equation.

There are a lot of people on this thread saying these things are wrong because their buddy or somebody they know does it. That doesn't make it legal. And it doesn't make them knowledgeable on the subject either.

I'm no expert but I think there are different classifications of felonies and I'm sure there are corresponding levels of restrictions as well.

Bottom line DON'T BECOME A FELON


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## Longgun

Personal example/story...

Party A has been allowing party B (B being a felon) to borrow a weapon for any of asst hunts they have both been on in the past, and A has also bought (Straw Purchase) Party B a shotgun fairly recently.

Not knowing the law... what is the potential penalty?

edit:
AND, no im NOT party A!


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## Truelife

Again, I'm no expert but here's some info.

"ATF P 5300.4 - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2005 General Information discusses "straw purchase" on p. 165 (application/pdf Object)".

When made at a federally licensed firearm dealership, straw purchases can be illegal in the United States. Straw purchaser of the firearm who lie about the identity of the ultimate possessor of the gun can be charged with making false statements on a federal Firearms Transaction Record. If a firearm is purchased as a gift, the transaction is not a straw purchase, and the person buying the gift is considered the end user. Straw purchases made outside of federally regulated dealerships are legal unless the gun is used in a crime with the prior knowledge of the straw purchaser

making false statements on a federal Firearms Transaction Record is one of the things my family member did. That can carry a 10 year sentence.

Also something to note is that Federal felonies don't get to spend jail time in the town jail, or the county clink. My family member only had 6 months prison time and he still did it in Nellis federal prison camp.

Edit - Federal felonies..........
:grin:


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## Longgun

^^ Thank you for taking the time to research/post that...


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## Truelife

It only took me about 5 seconds but I'm sure it's true........... I FOUND IT ON THE INTERNET :typing:


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## Longgun

It was enough for me to further verify it with a local sheriff last night, in the same A/B senario. Although... i shared a few more details with him that if i shared here on an open forum, and then noticed by either party they'd figure it out, then in short order im sure my truck would mysteriously have four flat tires, my boat would be reduced to melted scrap and my house would be tourched while we on vacation sometime...

in short ... both A & B in my example, are in deep deep poo poo if caught.


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## Truelife

Yeah Longgun, I think there are a whole lot of rules broken along these lines. Along all lines really. I don't know how it is in your neighborhood, but even something as simple as a stop sign means absolutely nothing to most people anymore.

It's just OUR AMERICA no big deal right............

That's another thread though.


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## Truelife

UPDATE ON HB0268

It's official and takes effect May 13th, 2014. Archery equipment is now excluded in the state of Utah from the "Dangerous weapons" definition. Convicted felons are now able to use archery equipment for target shooting and hunting.

http://le.utah.gov/~2014/bills/static/HB0268.html


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## Longgun

Truelife said:


> Yeah Longgun, I think there are a whole lot of rules broken along these lines. Along all lines really. I don't know how it is in your neighborhood, but even something as simple as a stop sign means absolutely nothing to most people anymore.
> 
> It's just OUR AMERICA no big deal right............
> 
> That's another thread though.


++1


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## Dizzyone

Federal law States that you can hunt with archery equipment and/or muzzle loader equipment as a felon you can argue all you want or you can look up the law on your own. This isn't the 90's with no internet where you can win an argument with a lie


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## MooseMeat

Dizzyone said:


> Federal law States that you can hunt with archery equipment and/or muzzle loader equipment as a felon you can argue all you want or you can look up the law on your own. This isn't the 90's with no internet where you can win an argument with a lie


Uh… welcome to the party pal. Only had this argument 12 years ago, but who’s counting right?

on another note. What were you researching that dug this thread up from the grave? Is there something you wanna come clean on first? Maybe some first hand experience with hunting and felonies? 🤔


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## APD

Dizzyone said:


> Federal law States that you can hunt with archery equipment and/or muzzle loader equipment as a felon you can argue all you want or you can look up the law on your own. This isn't the 90's with no internet where you can win an argument with a lie



Just got out of the pen, huh? Must have been a long 8 years to still be thinking about this thread.


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## Critter

Since this thread got reserected from the dead thread file, here is what Utah law is as far as weapons here it is from the 2021 guide book:

Are you allowed to
possess a weapon?
Utah Code §§ 76-10-503 and 76-10-512
It is illegal under Utah Code §§
76-10-503 and 76-10-512 to possess or
use a firearm, muzzleloader or any other
dangerous weapon if you have been
charged or convicted of certain offenses.
The purchase or possession of any
hunting license, permit, tag or certificate
of registration from the Division does not
authorize the holder to legally possess or
use a firearm, muzzleloader or any other
dangerous weapon while hunting if they
are otherwise restricted from possessing
these weapons under Utah Code.
To determine whether you are
allowed to possess a weapon, please
review the Utah Code sections listed
above or contact the law enforcement
agency that oversees your case.


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## johnnycake

The only logical evolution of UWN arguments is to now push to make pool jumping a felony. That ought to help with point creep


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## DallanC

All tags Dutch auction! 

-DallanC


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## Critter

Just bid on them using your points instead of money.


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