# Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while.



## Dwight Schrutester (Dec 3, 2007)

Lots of talk right now about the Holy War ending for at least a couple years after 2012.

Personally, I think they should play each other every year, even if it is played in September. I would hate to see it end. The game is just too much fun to watch!

Thoughts?


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

It is kind of out of Utah's hands. With a 9 game Pac 12 schedule, plus the Pac 12 is signing a deal with the Big 10 to commit to two games/year with them, Utah, as do all schools, wants an easy game. And while last year's game was a slaughter, it usually isn't that way. And being the little fish in the big pond now, they get little to no say in what they do. The big conference fun comes with a price.


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## Guns and Flies (Nov 7, 2007)

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I think it would be sad if they didn't play every year. I look forward to it.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



GaryFish said:


> It is kind of out of Utah's hands. With a 9 game Pac 12 schedule, plus the Pac 12 is signing a deal with the Big 10 to commit to two games/year with them, Utah, as do all schools, wants an easy game. And while last year's game was a slaughter, it usually isn't that way. And being the little fish in the big pond now, they get little to no say in what they do. The big conference fun comes with a price.


Great thought out post Gary!

You don't get the benefits of the PAC12 without some cuts. I was really hoping the PAC12 would only do a 8 game conference from the beginning as I saw this as the only way Utah could continue to play BYU annually going forward. When the BIG10 deal came along it ate up another game (10 committed games each season with 5 at home and 5 away). I know Utah wants those remaining OCC games to be at home most seasons (depending on how the rotation is with the BIG10). Then you add that the PAC12 wants OCC games to be played in the first 3 games of the year and the logistics with making this fit with BYU's independent schedule... UGHHHH!

I will be sad to see it go away and I hope it doesn't. Maybe this will make it easier to cheer for eachother? :lol:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

They will be able to work it out I'm sure. USC is still playing Notre Dame every year. As do Michigan - both teams impacted with tough conference schedules and great non-conference rivalry games. But it'll take time to get things together. It'll come back. We may just have to wait a few years.

Until then, BYU's new(?) in state rival is going to be Utah State.

The sad thing is this leaves Utah without any kind of rivalry game. And that kind of sucks.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

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GaryFish said:


> The sad thing is this leaves Utah without any kind of rivalry game. And that kind of sucks.


In state, they use to have a pretty strong rivalry with Colorado, I could see this becoming their new rivalry. I wish they could still do the BYU game at least every other year minimum.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



GaryFish said:


> They will be able to work it out I'm sure. USC is still playing Notre Dame every year. As do Michigan - both teams impacted with tough conference schedules and great non-conference rivalry games. But it'll take time to get things together. It'll come back. We may just have to wait a few years.
> 
> Until then, BYU's new(?) in state rival is going to be Utah State.
> 
> The sad thing is this leaves Utah without any kind of rivalry game. And that kind of sucks.


I hate to say this, I think that I and other Utah fans that believe we should play BYU every year are not in the majority. Most of my "Utah Fan" friends feel that the BYU rivalry will be replaced (over time) with the likes of UofA, ASU, UC (after the humiliating home loss this year), and especially a game every year with USC & UCLA.


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## Dwight Schrutester (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

I went to that disaster of a game against Colorado. On my drive to SLC that morning I listened to Colorado's coach being interviewed on the radio. They asked him about the PAC 12 pushing Colorado as Utah's new rival. He said that BYU is Utah's rival, BUT Colorado beating Utah and spoiling Utah's run to the PAC 12 championship game could definitely spark a rivalry. LONE BEHOLD UTAH LOST!!!

Like I said I was at that game. In my mind BYU will always be our rival. However, I know a lot of Utah fans (including me) are looking forward to playing Colorado this year and hopefully beating them up pretty good. The crowd was in a bad mood that day, and there was a nasty cheap shot helmet to helmet by a Colorado player towards the end of the game. One player taunted the crowd after that hit. The crowd was booing him and going crazy. I can definitely see Colorado becoming a heated rivalry. Not as crazy as the Holy War, but a rival nonetheless.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

If Utah is to get a "new" rival, it will be Colorado. But I don't see that happening. Colorado has a long and deeply rooted hatred for Nebraska that will be hard to top. Plus, they are maintaining their annual game at Mile High with CSU for a rivalry. A rivalry with any of the other 12-Pac is unlikely, as they are already paired up with long-standing in-state rivals. Nothing Utah can get from any 12 Pac school can match what there is in the BYU rivalry. Not many Ute fans have CU grads living next door flying flags, wearing team-color ties, and talking trash in the halls at church. Local high school kids won't be hearing from recruiters from Utah and CU, and won't be going to summer football camps in Boulder as they grow up. Being in completely different media markets offers no fuel to the fire, and I really doubt that the highway between Boulder and Salt Lake will be experiencing any traffic jams in late November. Wanting to beat a team because they showed you up on your home turf is not the same kind of drive that fuels a rivalry backed by 100+ years of tradition and competition that permeates neighborhoods, high schools, ward houses, and even homes and marriages.

Membership in the Pac-12 means 2-3 games/year against traditionally very good teams, 5-6 games/year against mediocre to bad teams, and no rival. It also means never having to go to places like Laramie, Fort Collins and Albacracky, so it is clearly a better gig.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



GaryFish said:


> Membership in the Pac-12 means 2-3 games/year against traditionally very good teams, 5-6 games/year against mediocre to bad teams, and no rival. It also means never having to go to places like Laramie, Fort Collins and Albacracky, so it is clearly a better gig.


The biggest difference I've notcied is that any one of the PAC12 teams can beat you due to talent. This is completetly different than what I saw in the MW or even the old WAC. They really do have more talent and more depth across the board.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

I don't even care. Put the dang game on hiatus forever for all I care. Just schedule some talent in Provo. The 60-14 wins over Whogivesacrap State just don't do it for me.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

OK. I've been giving this some thought, and heard various interviews from both schools over the last couple of days. And my conclusion is that if the rivalry game doesn't happen, it is totally on Utah. And all they have are excuses. I get that they have 9 conference games, but so does every other 12-Pac school. And they are going to get 1-2 games with Big 10 opponents, so that leaves 1-2 non-conference games left. And if Utah chooses to take on Montana State over a chance to play BYU, well, they are whimping out and aren't nearly as cool as they think they are. Nothing short of cowardice. I don't see USC cancelling their series with Notre Dame. Oregon opened at LSU last year. USC has future games on the books with Texas. They don't seem to be making any excuses. And BYU has games scheduled with several other 12 Pac schools that don't mind doing home and home. If the game is attractive WSU, OSU, and UCLA, then what is Utah's problem? Freaking give your fans what they want and deserve - a real rivalry game and no excuses.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

If you guys would only be good enough for the PAC12 we wouldn't have this problem


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Okay, kidding aside we will have 2 games to fit you guys in. I'm for it, but their definitely a bigger upside for BYU in their current state of bliss (independence). I know USC/Stanford/ND still play, but USC and Stanford are much better than Utah and BYU is no where near ND. Hard to compare as those games typically have national implications in terms of tv sets so there is more to those games than our little rivalry


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

Utah's upside for playing BYU is that they'll at least get on ESPN once a year.;-)
A road trip for a game that you can go to and still make it to church on Sunday. ;-)

It really isn't a can/cannot do it. Its a want/don't want thing.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



JuddCT said:


> USC and Stanford are much better than Utah and BYU is no where near ND. Hard to compare as those games typically have national implications in terms of tv sets so there is more to those games than our little rivalry


That is exactly what makes the ewts look so whimpy; if the Y is that bad, that is their easy game, right? I frankly don't care much either way, this last year sucked in every way, way too early to even have any implications or importance.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

I saw a scheduled game between the holy war teams September 15, 2012.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



pkred said:


> I saw a scheduled game between the holy war teams September 15, 2012.


Correct, but that is the last scheduled game at this point.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



GaryFish said:


> Utah's upside for playing BYU is that they'll at least get on ESPN once a year.;-)
> A road trip for a game that you can go to and still make it to church on Sunday. ;-)
> 
> It really isn't a can/cannot do it. Its a want/don't want thing.


It is also a power struggle thing as well. Why does BYU require USU to do 2 for 1? The same reason Utah probably wants to do 2 for 1 now with BYU. Your are exactly right, it is a want/don't want thing. If Holmoe is really willing to do "anything" to keep the rivalry alive, commit to a 2 for 1 with Utah. :lol:


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



Huge29 said:


> JuddCT said:
> 
> 
> > USC and Stanford are much better than Utah and BYU is no where near ND. Hard to compare as those games typically have national implications in terms of tv sets so there is more to those games than our little rivalry
> ...


It is amazing how hurt Kitty fans are right now. I didn't know we meant so much to you. :lol:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

I think its just better for both teams to keep the game going. A rival means a lot to a team and the fan base. And without BYU, Utah has no rival.

Kitty fans will be just fine either way. We'll keep up with our 10 ESPN games a year, and will play as good or better schedule than the yootz, and will put 20,000 more people in the stands than the utes while doing it. So we'll be just fine. 

My only thing with utah on the deal is Hill and Whitt are giving the excuse of not wanting the game because the schedule is soooooo tough in the 12 Pac. which I guess when you lose home games to Colorado it would feel that way. But other teams in the 12 Pac don't give that excuse. Unlike the SEC, the attitude among the 12 Pac elite seems to be "bring it on!" But not the utes. They want a warm up game so they can be ready when the mighty Buffalos and Wazzu Cougars come to town.

Take it from a Cougar fan that had to endure a horrible home schedule last year. Scheduling down will give you a home tour including Washington State, Montana State, Weber, Oregon State and one good game with USC. And that sucks.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

Attendance smack talk is WEAK and all BYU fans have left. I sense there is still a lot of resentment and jealousy because you guys were left out, but I would feel the same way in your position.

End of the day I want them to play, but I won't lose any sleep over it.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



JuddCT said:


> It is also a power struggle thing as well. Why does BYU require USU to do 2 for 1? The same reason Utah probably wants to do 2 for 1 now with BYU.


You sure about that 2 for 1 deal that BYU has with USU?

1999 - Logan
2000 - Provo
2001 - Provo
2002 - Logan
2003 - No Game
2004 - No Game
2005 - No Game
2006 - Provo
2007 - No Game
2008 - Logan
2009 - Provo
2010 - Logan
2011 - Provo
2012 - Provo (Scheduled)
2013 - Logan (Scheduled)

Count em up... 
Games in Logan 5 
Games in Provo 6



JuddCT said:


> Your are exactly right, it is a want/don't want thing. If Holmoe is really willing to do "anything" to keep the rivalry alive, commit to a 2 for 1 with Utah. :lol:


Utah's not THAT impressive (the same as BYU is not THAT impressive to USU). Just because they're in the pac 12 doesn't mean they're magically a better team. They're still the same team that has done a home and home with BYU for the past four decades.

the real reason the rivalry might end, GF nailed it.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



willfish4food said:


> JuddCT said:
> 
> 
> > It is also a power struggle thing as well. Why does BYU require USU to do 2 for 1? The same reason Utah probably wants to do 2 for 1 now with BYU.
> ...


Maybe I should have really put LOL instead of the emoticon so you would understand a little better. I agree that Utah isn't that impressive and that being in the PAC12 doesn't make us magically better (only BYU believes in MAGIC, remember?). But I can still joke with you guys as it seems we mean a lot more to you than you mean to us. Just sayin.

Don't worry, your stadium is bigger so you still have that going for you.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



JuddCT said:


> 2011 - Provo
> 2012 - Provo (Scheduled)
> 2013 - Logan (Scheduled)
> 
> Yes, the last deal was a 2 for 1


Interesting how people can manipulate data to serve their purpose. Taking a three year span looks like a 2 for 1. Kind of like if you looked at 2008 - 2010.

2008 - Logan
2009 - Provo
2010 - Logan
2011 - Provo
2012 - Provo (Scheduled)
2013 - Logan (Scheduled)

Or kind of like if I were to say BYU is the better team because the record stands in BYU's favor 26-14 in the past 40 years with 11 double digit wins for BYU vs. 4 for Utah. :lol: Obviously in the recent past Utah has dominated BYU in the rivalry.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



willfish4food said:


> JuddCT said:
> 
> 
> > 2011 - Provo
> ...


Check your facts the last deal was for 2010-2012 and they recently changed it to include three more games:

2013 - Logan
2014 - Provo
2015 - Provo

http://www.utahstateaggies.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/072011aaf.html



willfish4food said:


> Or kind of like if I were to say BYU is the better team because the record stands in BYU's favor 26-14 in the past 40 years with 11 double digit wins for BYU vs. 4 for Utah. :lol: Obviously in the recent past Utah has dominated BYU in the rivalry.


Lets be honest. The true rivalry didn't exist from 1896-1971 (Utes dominated) or from 1972-1991 (Cougs dominated). It really has been a competitive rivalry since the 1990s (each team winning 5 games in that decade) and 2000s (each team winning 5 games in that decade). But hey, we've started this decade out 2-0! 

Tell me how big your stadium is again, I forgot. :O•-:


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



JuddCT said:


> willfish4food said:
> 
> 
> > JuddCT said:
> ...


Check your facts the last deal was for 2010-2012 and they recently changed it to include three more games:

2013 - Logan
2014 - Provo
2015 - Provo

http://www.utahstateaggies.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/072011aaf.html


> Oh and it was a 3 year deal before that as well for the 2006, 2008, 2009 games as well 2-1:
> 
> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635188048/BYU-Utah-State-to-meet-in-football-this-season.html
> 
> You guys sure are scared of the Aggies.


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## willfish4food (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



JuddCT said:


> Check your facts the last deal was for 2010-2012 and they recently changed it to include three more games:
> 
> 2013 - Logan
> 2014 - Provo
> ...


Overall I really do think the rivalry will live or die according to what Utah is willing to do. A home and home schedule is the fair arrangement and if Utah doesn't want to do it then the rivalry will die. I'm sure BYU will be willing to fit them in; as stated before, they need as many quality opponents as they can get, and Utah is a quality opponent.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*



willfish4food said:


> JuddCT said:
> 
> 
> > Check your facts the last deal was for 2010-2012 and they recently changed it to include three more games:
> ...


Agreed.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

The Y requested a Provo, Logan and then ESA series, which made Morrill go nuts and go public as if they had in****ed his mom...what a hot head.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Utah/BYU football rivalry might be on hiatus for a while*

That was for basketball Huge. They don't play football inside ESA.

For Football, BYU jammed USU for a 2 for 1. And that sucks. They need to do an honest home/home with Utah State!

As for the Utah deal - I know the utes are concerned because in alternating years, they get 5 road conference games, and don't want to have to travel to Provo as well. My only thought is that take a year off or whatever, so that the game in Provo is in the year when Utah has 5 conference home games, and the year at Rice Eccles is when utah only has 4 home conference games. Scheduling problem solved. And no-one "big times" the other demanding some kind of 2 for 1 deal. I think it sucks that BYU did that to Utah State.


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