# 150, 200, 250 yds..



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Out doing more shooting to get ready for muzzy season. 
As iv stated before 
290gr Barnes TMZ 
110gr BH 209
Mid 1900’s fps 
2.5” high @ 100 yds. 

The first pic is my 150 yard target and the second pic is obviously my 200 and 250 yard shots. My arm was getting pretty black and blue by the time I started shooting 200-250. I think I can improve it but, can’t complain!!

I’ll be ready by mid September!!


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I wouldn't be happy with that at all actually. If my gun were doing that I'd keep my shots to under 200. Are you getting tearing or shearing on the sabots?


PS: Use more than 2 shot groups... the more the better to get a true indication of what your gun is doing. Run a 10 shot group sometime, that'll give you a really good idea of how a load preforms. You might have a 1MOA load but pulled the 2nd shot slightly, who knows... 2 just isn't enough.





-DallanC


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

DallanC said:


> I wouldn't be happy with that at all actually. If my gun were doing that I'd keep my shots to under 200. Are you getting tearing or shearing on the sabots?
> 
> PS: Use more than 2 shot groups... the more the better to get a true indication of what your gun is doing. Run a 10 shot group sometime, that'll give you a really good idea of how a load preforms. You might have a 1MOA load but pulled the 2nd shot slightly, who knows... 2 just isn't enough.
> 
> -DallanC


Nah, I'm happy with it. That's good shooting, it was a little blowy out side today while shooting and my arm was DEAD by the time I shot these.

2-4 inches left of dead center at 200-250 yards with a muzzleloader isn't good? I hope your joking.

Those are clean holes and I shot 2 shot groups because I was down to 6 pre measured tubes and I didn't want to weigh more so I shot 2 at each distance and impact never changed ( I factored in my drop for 200 and 250 and it was on the money) 
And that's the other thing, I'm -7 at 200 and -16 at 250 so, I'm out there just rough guessing-7 and -16. And those where the results. Give me another session and a fresh arm to practice with and I'll bet that group improves, this is the second time Iv shot my muzzleloader in 3 years, (last time I had a muzzy tag) 
Just need more practice is all, but I'm confident with this, it's only gonna get better.

That 150 yd target is a 1 MOA and the 200 is a 1 MOA and the 250 is dang near MOA. Like I said. I was fatigue and it was blowing probably 8ish mph

The 200 yard is only 2 inches left of dead center, that's good enough to take out the neighbors cat and the 250 yd shots are nearly the same, the far left one was my very last shot and it's still 5 inches left of dead center but, if you were to take the average POI based off 2 shots, that would make the 250yd impacts 3 inches left of dead center, again good enough to take out the neighbors cat at 250..

Moral of the story, considering the conditions and a lack of shooting, this was a good shoot!! Just been a busy summer! But, I'll be shooting almost every weekend until the hunt. 
Archery next weekend!

You should have heard me at the end of this shooting session, I sounded like a mashed dog. Definitely gonna have a bruise. I only shot 12 loads but, DAM! Towards the end it was brutal


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I love my PACT shooting pad for those days at the range with a high recoiling gun. Well worth the $$$. IDK if PACT still makes them, they look like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Super-Plus-Recoil-Shield/dp/B001C5XOJQ

-DallanC


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

DallanC said:


> I love my PACT shooting pad for those days at the range with a high recoiling gun. Well worth the $$$. IDK if PACT still makes them, they look like this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Super-Plus-Recoil-Shield/dp/B001C5XOJQ
> 
> -DallanC


I'll let this bruise get nice and blue, then I'll show ya but, today that gun was just laying into me for some reason, I was focusing and relaxing really well, letting the gun crush me to minimize error and it certainly crushed me..


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Whenever I work up loads and plan on shooting over 10 shots I always use my gun vise. I don't want to get the "flinch's" from the recoil and then try to break that dirty habit. Once I've got the load and POI where it needs to be I'll move the vise and use bags to see how much I change the POI. 


The rifle can be accurate as he!! but at times I can make it look like crap. That's when I'll pack it up and plan another trip to the range.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Im probably late to the party but had to laugh reading this. Im shooting the same bullet and 110 volume blackhorn out of my new cva acura v2 LR. First several shots okay not bad. After that crap ouch lol. My shoulder after sighting in to 200 yards was mashed. The next day I went out I put one of those slip on recoil pads on the stock and omg nice. It took most pain away. My 200 yard shots were 2 inch groups but 5 shot minimum. Id have to agree with Dallan shooting more than 2 but I get your explanation. I havent stretched out to 250 but hoping it wont go above 3 inches as I believe 250 will be my max yardage for first year muzzle hunt. By the way is it just my rifle or do the barnes fit super tight? I first was shooting the hornadys and didnt feel tough to get them down but the barnes are super tough actually a tad easier after the first cold shot though.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I have no problems with the Barnes going down the tube, I’ve only shot Barnes so I have no comparison..

I should mention every shot was with a cold bore, and the gun has been shooting groups this good or better since I bought it. No need to wast powder and copper or my arm! This wasn’t data collection, it was re zeroing a new scope, in a 9mph wind no less. 

I’m ready, I’ll be shooting a couple more times and then I’m off to the Beaver, solo backpacking style..


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

Aznative said:


> By the way is it just my rifle or do the barnes fit super tight?


Are you shooting TMZ or TEZ? The TMZ's are super tight in my Accura V2, but the TEZ's are a lot easier going down.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

That explains it im shooting tmz's


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Sounds like maybe I switch to tez's but dang just bought a box of tmz's. I bet sportsmans will exchange


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## nocturnalenemy (Jun 26, 2011)

Aznative said:


> Sounds like maybe I switch to tez's but dang just bought a box of tmz's. I bet sportsmans will exchange


I was in the same boat. I actually found some thinner sabots online that I've used to shoot the TMZ projectile (it's a boattail while the TEZ is a flat base). It's the equivalent of the TEZ sabot, but black. Can't remember where I got them but I think they were from Knight. I'll check my box when I get home tonight.


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

Awesome and did affect accuracy with the black ones? Id hate to re site it in but it is what it is


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

The TEZ and TMZ both grouped about the same for me, so I went with the easier to load sabot. Can’t remember the accuracy as this was a couple years ago.


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## StillAboveGround (Aug 20, 2011)

You can buy thinner sabots, then use TMZs just like TEZs (except TEZ is boat tailed, TMZ is flat bottom)

https://mmpsabots.com/store/hph-sabot-series/


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## Aznative (May 25, 2018)

I think I will look at thinner sabots. Id hate to not use a box and half of ammo. That stuff isnt cheap by no means. Thanks for the advice


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

StillAboveGround said:


> You can buy thinner sabots, then use TMZs just like TEZs (except TEZ is boat tailed, TMZ is flat bottom)
> 
> https://mmpsabots.com/store/hph-sabot-series/


I switched from the TEZ to the TMZ last year, but like a lot of people hated how hard they were to load in my gun. The other side of that is I loved how they shot and grouped 200+ yards. So I tried the sabots above and found they helped quite a bit in loading, but I didn't love that I was losing petals and my groups opened up a little bit.

So I tried the harvester crushed rib
https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/products/crush-rib-sabots
These are awesome sabots and I recommend them to anyone wanting to shoot the TMZ.

(just a small correction on the quote above, the TMZ is boat-tail and the TEZ is flat bottom)


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

So, I would say the TMZ loads easy in my Accura V2. My buddy and I sighted in his Accura LR and we dam near had to pound them in with a hammer but, they were grouping tight. I told him after this season he needs to pick up some different sabots.. He's got a Wasatch Muzzy Elk tag and he FINALLY got his gun figured out. Too close to the hunt to be trying something different


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

goosefreak said:


> So, I would say the TMZ loads easy in my Accura V2. My buddy and I sighted in his Accura LR and we dam near had to pound them in with a hammer but, they were grouping tight. I told him after this season he needs to pick up some different sabots.. He's got a Wasatch Muzzy Elk tag and he FINALLY got his gun figured out. Too close to the hunt to be trying something different


We were helping a guy last year with a LE tag and he was nervous because he had'nt shot his super duper muzzle loader out to 300 yards yet. Our comment was you better be able to shoot it at 50 yards. Ok it ended up being 63 yards. My gosh the muzzy has been prime rut.

What was it Tex use to say about turkeys? Shoot Them in the lips. Do the same with the muzzy on elk.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I guess I'm old and weird. I don't take shots over about 125 yards. 
To me it's not about how far I can shoot..........
It's about how close can I get. And I have killed some good muzzle bucks. 
Have watched this thread with interest.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Garan-dang-tee I’ll shoot a deer as far as my weapon allows me to be lethal. If its 25 yards or 250 yards. I hope all my shots are 50 yards but if I’ve got a buck of a lifetime standing out at 200 yards and that’s all the closer I can get, you better believe I’m stretching the bipod out and I will sleep good knowing I can make that shot..

But I’m picky, I have no desire to shoot a deer under 170” unless he’s laying next to the tailgate of my truck


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Good on you!
But why put pesky limits on your shots? :smile:

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/sniper-shot-record


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

One of my favorite long range muzzleloader sniper storys is the Battle of Spotsylvania Court House. General John Sedgwick was pacing back and forth as his soldiers were cowering behind cover during fire. Sedgwick said "What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line?" Although ashamed, his men continued to flinch and he said, "Why are you dodging like this? They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

At that point he was hit by a sniper just under the left eye. IIRC, that was 1000 yards out.

And while not a muzzleloader but a black powder cartridge, in the battle for Adobe Walls, Billy Dixon fired a single shot at a group of indians and killed one with 1 shot. The Army Corp of engineers later surveyed the distance at 1,538 yards.

History is fun.

-DallanC


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

middlefork said:


> Good on you!
> But why put pesky limits on your shots?
> 
> 
> ...


Just staying within my limits my friend,

With my 270 short, my cut off limit is 1,000 yards (laughable) and even then if the wind is easy to read. I shot a Couse deer down in Arizona at 1016 yards and I shot another Couse at 830yds in his bed, but conditions were absolutely perfect and I had time to sit and do a series of dry fires until it felt good.

With my Muzzleloader my cut off is 250 yards at this point, I can consistently put rounds in the target at that distance but, I haven't shot any further.

I'm backpacking into the Beaver for deer this muzzy season, hoping to put a giant on the ground, and the closer the shot the better..


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