# Reintroduction of otters into the Provo



## caddisguy (Sep 10, 2007)

I noticed the DWR is anxiously engaged in reintroducing otters into the Provo River. Having fished streams and rivers where otters currently reside I find them to be at the least a bother to anglers and often a menace. 

Otters have come up and taken fish off my line as I was bringing a fish in. Having stashed a fish downstream to take home I have come back to find otters dining on my catch. 

It will be interesting to see how adorable anglers find otters when they have a sever impact on the number of catchable fish on the Provo. With no natural predators to keep their population under control, the number of otters will grow exponentially to the point anglers will be clamoring to have them removed. 

I hope I am delusional and overly pessimistic and none of this will happen leaving the otters an adorable addition to the angling experience on Utah’s blue ribbon trout streams. Then again, if it ain’t broke why reintroduce otters?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Can you say "river wolves"?


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I can't imagine their population growing terribly fast so they might just be a periodic pest. But this is just my thought on the matter. Maybe they'll repopulate extremely quickly...


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

I saw a family of Otters on the Green shortly after they were re-introduces there in the late 80's.
Lately, I have not seen any of them.

I don't think that having them re-introduced to the Provo will create any problems there.
The Birds eat more fish there than the Otters will ever eat.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you are going to complane about the reintroduction of the otters how about elk, bison, and antelope? They were all just about shot to the point of no return in the state or were but look at them now. Then you could look at all the introduced spieces of fish in the river. Both the browns and rainbows were introduced into the waters of Utah since they are not a native spiecies of fish here. 
I don't see a problem with the otters at all.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Due to the shoulder to shoulder fishing pressure in better runs and the "tube hatch", I am not much of a middle or lower Provo guy. That said, I don't see that the otters are going to cause any problems.

1. The DWR has begged anglers for several years to harvest more browns out of the Provo, due to overpopulation. The evidence has shown that additional harvest has not occurred. Maybe the otters will do what fly anglers won't and "thin the herd" of browns to a healthier level. If they are near DC, Jordanelle, and especially Utah lake, they could eat fish until they are as fat as walruses and not hurt the fish population.

2.


caddisguy said:


> With no natural predators to keep their population under control, the number of otters will grow exponentially to the point anglers will be clamoring to have them removed.


The initial transplant had 9 otters. At least 1 of them (maybe up to 3) succumbed to a predator that will always be present near the middle and lower, automobiles. The initial otters have been moving all over the river, apparently from the mouth of Provo canyon, to above Jordanelle. This movement puts them in danger for getting whacked.

3.


caddisguy said:


> if it ain't broke why reintroduce otters?


Any of our rivers that have an overabundance of skinny browns could theoretically be considered "broke". There are a few of them in the state that could fit in that category. I would think that otters could be used here as both a possible management tool and as a critter that is just fun to watch on its own merits.

4.


Loke said:


> Can you say "river wolves"?


LOL, One difference. I just wish that our deer and elk herds were as overpopulated as the browns are on the LoPro.

In the next few weeks, there will likely be a few more otters that will be transplanted. Prior to this, they are examined, vaccinated, and will undergo a small surgical procedure to implant a transmitter. If my schedule allows, I may participate in this process and, if it interests anyone, would be happy to take some pictures of the process and post a report.


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Due to the shoulder to shoulder fishing pressure in better runs and the "tube hatch", I am not much of a middle or lower Provo guy. That said, I don't see that the otters are going to cause any problems.
> 
> 1. The DWR has begged anglers for several years to harvest more browns out of the Provo, due to overpopulation. The evidence has shown that additional harvest has not occurred. Maybe the otters will do what fly anglers won't and "thin the herd" of browns to a healthier level. If they are near DC, Jordanelle, and especially Utah lake, they could eat fish until they are as fat as walruses and not hurt the fish population.
> 
> ...


+1 Good post! I was going to say some of the same things. The C&R guys shot themselves in the foot on this one.


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## Pez Gallo (Dec 27, 2007)

I think it is cool to see critters like otters, beavers, foxes, etc when I go fishing. Maybe it will reduce the MP trout population from 4000 fish per mile to 3000 bigger fish per mile.

If you have trouble catching fish on a river with 3000 per mile... Take up golf.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

Weren't the otters a native species to the river anyway? What's the big deal? They have more right to be there than the browns. The browns will do just fine anyway. It's the planter rainbows that really need to be scared.

There are plenty of predators to take some otters. The Middle is always shadowed by large birds of prey and there are also foxes and coyotes that could kill the young of the year.

Go otters!


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## Tigru (Oct 15, 2007)

I too have ZERO problems with Otter re-introduction. I love seeing wildlife when I fish. If an Otter came and snatched a fish from me as I was reeling it in, I would go ahead and chalk that up as an awesome experience and story. How often does/would that happen though really?


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm so tired of hearing people whine about the otters. My only complaint is they didn't put enough in. Most major rivers in the northern rockies have abundant otter populations with no problem. It's nice to see the state make a good move like this after the DISASTER that was the middle provo restoration project. I believe that the middle provo in the 90's was the best brown trout fishery in the united states. Now, mini-fest.


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Interesting there is no response to this topic. Did ANYONE here fish the middle before the year 2000?!!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

The last time that I fished it was back in the 70's and it held big browns then.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Interesting there is no response to this topic. Did ANYONE here fish the middle before the year 2000?!!


I fished it a ton growing up in the mid 80's and 90's. Caught some monster browns. I agree w/flyguy, it's a dinkfest now. I cringe when I know I'll have to fish the middle w/clients. The more otters the better IMO. They can't hurt the place.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

+1, I used to fish the middle 2-3 a week for several years and actually prefer the way it was before the restoration. We used to catch some really nice fish. A year after he lower stretch was finished I went up to parking lots, bathrooms, small fish and a whole mess of fashion paraders, very disappointing. Haven't been back since.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> DISASTER that was the middle provo restoration project. I believe that the middle provo in the 90's was the best brown trout fishery in the united states. Now, mini-fest.


I will comment...your assertion that the restoration project was a disaster is asinine. Not because the Provo hasn't evolved from a fishery with nice fish to a fishery full of dinks, but because what you point the finger at as the cause. The restoration work done on the stream banks and stream channels has virtually nothing to do with the fish sizes...fish sizes started to go down the minute minimum flows were acquired for the middle Provo and when brown trout were allowed to spawn without any limitations....before any restoration work was done. So, if you want a scapegoat for the dinkfest, blame those responsible for acquiring minimum flows...


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

Minimum flows are a part of it, yes. But the most asinine thing here is that your chiming in AGAIN on the middle Provo, yet you have never even laid a cast in it. Minimum flows are a rock on a mountain of other problems.


> Interesting there is no response to this topic. Did ANYONE here fish the middle before the year 2000?!!


 This does not obviously apply to you Wyo2utah you take your usual bull**it somewhere else! You have never even been to the river but YOU always know what is better for the river than those who have spent THOUSANDS of days on it before and after reconstruction. Come to think of it; I have fished the middle more TODAY than you have in your entire life.....


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Never been on the river? Once again you are wrong...do I spend lots of time on the river, no. So, I get my information from someone who has spent lots of time on the river working, studying, and researching from a scientific standpoint. The funny thing is that guys like you rely on a fisherman's perspective and think you know more than the professionals who have logged countless hours working on it...I would listen to a professional biologist any day over some yahoo fisherman who thinks he knows and obviously doesn't! In fact, if you had any knowledge on the subject, you would KNOW that fish sizes were rapidly declining ever before the restoration project began...but instead you always want to find a scapegoat and that scapegoat is usually the government! Typical! :roll:

What makes me LMAO is that before the restoration began the MP fishermen all wanted to say that the DWR was crazy when they pleaded with fishermen to keep fish because the browns were stunting...and now, the same guys are complaining that the restoration project has ruined the fishery. Wow, what a surprise!

If you are going to spew nonsense, at least base it on the facts...start by reading this:
http://wildfish.montana.edu/cases/data/ ... ojectID=72


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

Bring on the Bigger Browns!! I am getting tired of this chicken little, the sky is falling crap from the provo river fishers. I read somewhere that they think these otters will spread to the weber then diamond fork then take over all rivers in the state. Get real guys...


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

OK, as I said before, I don't fish the middle or lower much,(will hit the middle on occasion) but I am curious about the "solution" here. We seem to agree that the otters will help, and if anglers would do it, harvest, but what else? Cut back the flow in the autumn to decrease recruitment? Bonneville cutts? (oh wait, that was tried and it didn't go over too well) 

If minimum flows were cut back, it might help the fishery above the dam a bit as the massive Jordanelle drawdown doesn't do the perch fry any favors, and consequently, hurts the growth of the perch predators.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

How about throw every fish under 15 on the bank.... :O•-: :O•-: :O•-: 
















Joking of course... kinda.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Interesting there is no response to this topic. Did ANYONE here fish the middle before the year 2000?!!


Uh.....I used to.

There was at one time a huge loop in the river just north of the tracks, it headed slightly east and then northerly where a rope was hanging from a tree for the brave, brave enough to swing out into the river and let go. Then the river swung back to the west a little and north again. Deep and dark, even during the day it was dark from all the trees along both sides of the river.

What happened to these places...man there was some nice fish in there... :|


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

flyguy7 said:


> Interesting there is no response to this topic. Did ANYONE here fish the middle before the year 2000?!!


Me, me, me









I though it was good in the 80s and terrible in the 90s when the drought from 87 to 93 hurt it bad. And geeze, there wasn't any place to park on the Middle back then. And hell, what's the point, if I wanted to enjoy nice scenery, good fishing and the great company of a jillion Utahns, I'd fish here in Wyoming. :lol:

I've seen otters below the Flaming Gorge Dam for some years now and I don't think there numbers are exploding.....in spite of all the food they have.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

So the total number of released Otters per article on KSL today is 19. I'd like to get some pics of them. Anyone seeing them on a regular basis?


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