# 2014 archery buck hunt



## utahhunter678

I am a little embarrassed to post because i got such a small buck. But he was at 30 yrds while I was walking through the forest. To me that means he was asking for it. I will be patient next year and actually kill something with decent head gear. But with this being my first buck ever and first archery hunt ever, I just couldnt help myself. Hope you all enjoy.


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## Top Pin Hunting

There is no need to be embarrassed, I've archery hunted my whole life and given the chance I will take a smaller buck cause I love the meat so much.


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## utahhunter678




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## BMCBryce

Well done brother! Great looking deer. The adventure and how it makes you feel is what matters. Congratulations.

Bryce


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## utahhunter678

BMCBryce
How are ya. Did you get your buck?? I am expecting some good footage.


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## ridgetop

Congrats. Looks like you had a great year and the beginning of a long tradition.


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## nateysmith

Nice buck. Which unit were you hunting?


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## klbzdad

So you harvested two deer?


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## utahhunter678

Klbzdad
No. I could not find the 3 point I shot. We looked for hours but could not find him. The blood just stopped and we couldn't pick up the trail again. Total bummer. I feel horrible about hitting that deer and not being able to take him home. I would have much preferred that 3 point over a spike. Thats how it goes sometimes. I learned a good lesson on arrow placement that day.


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## nateysmith

I am guessing that is the Currant creek tag


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## Mr.CheddarNut

Who ever told you that the size of "headgear" determines the quality and success of your hunt? :shock:

I say awesome!


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## utahhunter678

Thx mr chedder


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## inbowrange

As us hunters, I believe after shooting one deer we should either find it! Or go home with tag soup! To me you just poached a spike. Very unethical as a hunter!


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## utahhunter678

Inbowrange
I respect your opinion and have similar feelings. I looked my tail off for that buck. I even considered doing just that. I am glad you said something so that as a new hunter I can learn from others experiences and opinions. I want to be ethical and teach my boys when they are of age the same principles. Again I appreciate your comments.


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## bugchuker

He didn't poach anything. How many guys would really go home after not finding a deer they shot? Everyone says they would but how many actually would?


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## utahgolf

bugchuker said:


> He didn't poach anything.


This!


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## koltraynor

bugchuker said:


> He didn't poach anything. How many guys would really go home after not finding a deer they shot? Everyone says they would but how many actually would?


Agreed! It sucks but it happens.


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## SteepNDeep

I like your attitude, I think you are headed in the right direction. The more obvious lesson seems to be not shot placement but just sheer distance. Primitive weapons are for closer ranges. IMO rifles are for 200 - 300 yards, Muzzy for 100 - 150, and Archery is 40 - 60. Everyone has their training and ability to mix in, but even if you are the best archer at 100 plus yards the animal gets a lot more play and reaction time. We only hurt our future hunting with choices like that.


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## Dahlmer

inbowrange said:


> As us hunters, I believe after shooting one deer we should either find it! Or go home with tag soup! To me you just poached a spike. Very unethical as a hunter!


That's your opinion and your ethics! He certainly has not met any definition of poaching. He made a good effort to find the deer, I don't think you can ask any more than that.

I would consider your condescending, narrow minded and abusive comments far more offensive and disreputable than his decision to persue another deer.


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## bugchuker

Dahlmer said:


> That's your opinion and your ethics! He certainly has not met any definition of poaching. He made a good effort to find the deer, I don't think you can ask any more than that.
> 
> I would consider your condescending, narrow minded and abusive comments far more offensive and disreputable than his decision to pursue another deer.


Dude! Spot on.


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## utahhunter678

You guys are all great. Yes I agree that the range is way to far. I practice out to 120 but that is no excuse to try on a live animal. I felt confident with the shot and I feel like it was a good hit because I even found what I think was lung tissue. However, I had 2 other opportunities at that distance afterwards and did not take them because I learned my lesson the first time. 

I dont feel like I "poached" the spike, but I do feel guilty about wounding an animal that I most likely killed but did not recover. I am glad we spoke about this so that when and if this happens in the future, I will have more insight rather than just my limited experience. 

I dont think that inbowrange ment to sound condescending, but just expressing his opinion. I respect all of our opinions about this and ethically Inbowrange is probably correct. It is one apart of the unfortunate things that happen while hunting. You won't be able to find them all. But only you as a man/women will have the conviction to know what is right when the time comes.


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## dkhntrdstn

any buck with a bow is a trophy. congrats man.


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## polarbear

With that much lung tissue that deer couldn't have gone more than 100 yards. Too bad you couldn't find him.


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## utahhunter678

Polarbear
You would think so right.. Freaking on my hands and knees looking for that sucker. Even jumped in a few bushes hoping to land on him. Maybe someone found him while we were looking. We were looking for like 1/2 the day. Some animals are just die hard and just run and run. Who knows where he went.


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## kailey29us

Great buck, don't get hung up on the size. I have never shot anything bigger than a 2 pt with my bow. The hunt, challenge and time with friends and family are what matters. Congrats on a great buck.


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## Springville Shooter

At least you looked. As a rifle hunter, I'm sad to say that some of my compatriots don't even bother to follow up on the shot if the deer doesn't drop. Sounds like you had some fun and learned some lessons. -----SS


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## Shunter

Sad to hear about the lost buck. That's surprising with that lung tissue. Looking for 1/2 day probably is more than a lot of hunters but I would hope we all search for several days to find a wounded animal, especially with our long archery season. And Isn't it legal to use dogs to help track a wounded animal?


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## Bowdacious

The whole "legal to use dogs" and why didn't he use dogs argument is mute if he doesn't have dogs or access to dogs. It's not like there is a number to call so you can get dogs to track your wounded animals.


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## polarbear

utahhunter678 said:


> Polarbear
> You would think so right.. Freaking on my hands and knees looking for that sucker. Even jumped in a few bushes hoping to land on him. Maybe someone found him while we were looking. We were looking for like 1/2 the day. Some animals are just die hard and just run and run. Who knows where he went.


That's a tough deal. Happened to me once. Congrats on your buck.


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## Bucksnort

Inbowrange- it is good that you hold yourself to a standard you have created for yourself, however not everyone agrees with your standard. Until the law is written to be the same as your standard, you would be better served to teach your standard rather than condemn those that do not adhere to it.


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## Sawbillslayer

About five years ago I shot an elk that was 60 yards about an hour before dark. I got a could pass through shot and a good blood trail but my dad always taught me to give it an hour before you even think about tracking it. I pulled out because it got dark and told my self that I would look for it in the morning. It rained that night and I got up at six and was on the blood trail at six thirty. Still finding blood I tracked that elk until 3:30pm and never found it because the rain washed the blood trail away. I hung up the bow for the season. I have had friends that have not done that but it is all what you think is ethical and what you feel that you need to do. I have also shot a spike elk and it hit the shoulder blade and only got about four inches of penetration. I followed that spike all day (7am to 5pm) and it acted like nothing even happened to it and I kept hunting. The things I have learned about archery over the years: is never take a shot over 50 yards even though I practice out to 80 yards, use a quality broadhead, only shoot if it is an ethical shot, and I can not say this enough practice at least once a weak if not more. When practicing shoot down hill, up hill, from tree stands, sitting, kneeling, standing in awkward positions that you might have when hunting, and move from behind obstacles at full draw (trees). These are just a few things I do and have had to learn myself and with some coaching. Utah hunter if you ever want a second opinion or even some pointers feel free to give me a PM. Don't worry about what others say, it seems that you have learned your lesson just like all of us has had to do through hunting. Congrats on the buck and don't forget to take your kids out.


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## utahhunter678

Sawbillslayer
Thx for the advice. I agree with every word brother.


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## elkfromabove

Bucksnort said:


> Inbowrange- it is good that you hold yourself to a standard you have created for yourself, however not everyone agrees with your standard. Until the law is written to be the same as your standard, you would be better served to teach your standard rather than condemn those that do not adhere to it.


Well, inbowrange may just have his way after all! One of the items we will revisit in tomorrow's all-day Mule Deer Planning Committee meeting is a law that requires you to punch your tag if you fatally wound a deer even if you don't find it. It's listed in our agenda as "Wound loss law/hit one you're done". It was one of the 18 out of 38 proposals we, as a body, chose to "KEEP" in discussions. (The other 20 were marked "OUT" .) It doesn't mean it will pass, but there was enough interest to keep talking about it. It was targeted primarily at the archers of course, but it would apply to the other weapons as well if passed, meaning the muzzy, rifle, shotgun, pistol, and crossbow hunters would now to have to determine whether or not they actually hit the deer/animal and whether or not it was lethal.


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## bugchuker

So is a forensic certification going to be required? :grin:


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## Bucksnort

One of the biggest challenges associated with any law and especially game laws is enforceability. I can only imagine the morass a prosecutor will have to enter to try and prove the lethality of a hit. While the idea may seem wrought with good intent, I bet the legal body (attorney generals office?) that ends up reviewing this law (if passed by the board) will shoot it down based on enforceability. If they dont the first few cases in the courts will.

I think this kind of ethic can only be taught by persuasion and patience and definitely not public forum shaming.. No law will teach it. It has to come from within.


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## SteepNDeep

Has to come from within - just like all of the hunting laws we have on the books. Why do I always see a nice bull on a buck hunt or a nice buck when looking for an elk? Nothing could be easier to kill than a moose on private ground in the summer. I saw a brute a few weeks back and quite accidentally was within 15 yards of him and he didn't care. One can shoot from a car, after dark, out of season, without a tag, in a different unit, party hunting still hangs around, using an illegal weapon, we can go on and on. 

That sounds like a fantastic law because it will light a fire under that conversation and help us all take more careful aim. A certain outcome would be that many more hunters would hang it up after losing an animal. Not ALL, but many - and that would be beneficial to all of us. 

If you pay for a high dollar hunt when you draw blood your check is cashed - meat in the freezer or not. It's an easy concept and common practice, just not on public ground. Why should we care about our future opportunity any less than one of those ranches caring about the herd on that land?


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## dadams41

I beleive everyone is entitled to their own opinion and don't mean to upset anyone by saying this. Here is a scenario for you. You shoot a deer, fatally wound it, can't find it so you shoot another like utahhunter did or... a hunter shoots a deer, kills and can find it but sees a bigger deer on the way back to camp and shoots it too. Either way you have killed 2 deer. Is it still ethical? I am of the opinion a hunt is not always about killing something. Many guys on here have said that it is about much more. I have read it all over this forum. It seems from a lot of comments I have read today they are just out there to tag out. I watched my uncle shoot a deer one year and he could not find it. He felt terrible and that was it for him for the year. I determined I would do the same thing if that ever happened to me. It hasn't, luckily. My opinion may be different if I had not seen that though.

Again, this is just my opinion, I don't mean to offend anyone.


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## Springville Shooter

We don't need any more laws that cant be enforced. The whole premise of the law is stupid because how is the hunter supposed to establish a lethal hit if they cant find the animal? We need to reject emotion-driven laws and encourage good ethics and common sense. Laws should be reserved for black and white subjects that can be followed and enforced. Lets spend our time and resources teaching marksmanship and tracking/recovery skills if we want to do some good. Or we can design a law with plausible deniability written right in. BRILLIANT! Easy way to get around this law is to NOT EVEN TRY TO LOOK. That's not what we want to encourage especially to the up and coming generation. Just my $.02.

Marksmanship is the biggest key. Before Muzzy hunting last year, it had been 15 years and 20 or so critters since the last time I even missed a big game animal. I was a teenager the last time I drew blood and didn't find the animal. That was with a recurve bow. I practice a lot and invest in good equipment to make sure that when I make the decision, the game is over. 

As far as the policies on ranches, they have a guide present who gets to make the call. We don't have the luxury of having a monitor with everyone hunting on public lands.....thank goodness.-------------SS


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## Critter

The big question comes down to what is a "fatal" hit? A friend shot a deer a few years ago during the rifle hunt and when we got to where he was standing there was blood all over. We started to track but started to only see a drop here and a drop there as the deer headed downhill. Then he started going up hill and we lost the blood trail. A while later we found were he had bedded and there was a pool of blood so we started tracking again and again the blood trail petered out. We followed this deer for over a mile and never did catch up with him. Then over the next few days we watched for birds over a carcass but never saw any. 

Fast forward to last year. We were hunting in the same area and I shot a nice 4x4 buck. When we were skinning him we found where a bullet had hit his shoulder and glanced off and out of the brisket. The scarring was quite evident of what it had done. We figured that this may of been the same deer that he had shot a couple of years before. 

So you just never know what is fatal and what is not. We figured that as much blood that this deer had lost he would be laying just around the next tree. 

Ethics is a personal thing. You have a tag for one deer and it is still valid as long as it isn't hanging off of a deer. One person feel that if he draws blood he should go home, the next person feels that he can hunt until he puts a tag on the animal. The law is the later.


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## elkfromabove

We didn't get to this issue this time around, but it will be part of the agenda for the next meeting, another all-day'er on Sep 16th. I'm pretty sure it won't pass because of enforceability as has been suggested, but maybe it will become part of the hunter safety courses and/or DWR publications and/or education efforts. In any case, sadly, it's something that may drive permit numbers and it has been, and probably will continue to be a divisive issue between archery hunters and rifle hunters.


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## utahgolf

I wonder how many duck hunters count lost birds as part of their limit? :shock:


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## Springville Shooter

elkfromabove said:


> We didn't get to this issue this time around, but it will be part of the agenda for the next meeting, another all-day'er on Sep 16th. I'm pretty sure it won't pass because of enforceability as has been suggested, but maybe it will become part of the hunter safety courses and/or DWR publications and/or education efforts. In any case, sadly, it's something that may drive permit numbers and it has been, and probably will continue to be a divisive issue between archery hunters and rifle hunters.


I really like the idea of hunter safety implementation and training. This is the only viable solution to this problem. First, we need to convince people that they need to look hard for game, then they need to be taught how to look for game. I don't like looking for game so I go to extra lengths to kill the crap out of whatever I shoot. Premium bullets at scorching velocities surgically placed to cause mass trauma to vital organs. Worked every time so far. Same thing can be done with a bow or muzzy. I fully understand the "crap happens" factor but if we do our part, crap shouldn't happen very often. I hope the committee comes up with a good solution to a problem that occurs during ALL types of hunting.------SS


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## elkfromabove

utahgolf said:


> I wonder how many duck hunters count lost birds as part of their limit? :shock:


 Or fishermen who release or lose fish that die later because of they were hooked?

As I mentioned, I'm pretty sure it won't pass as presented, but FWIW, my suggestion that it may show up in hunter safety, education and publications is my own idea of where it should go and I'll make that presentation when it comes up.

It probably won't show up in the plan, but we've discussed and made several recommendations for things that won't show up in the plan, but that will be presented to the Wildlife Board by the DWR with our endorsement. Additionally, the DWR has accepted some assignments from us to do research (legal, biological, financial, social, historical, etc.) on some issues before asking us to make recommendations and some items in the plan will likely be decided via emails after the meetings.


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## Bucksnort

Elkfromabove

I am just curious. Who is the we that you represent? Thanks


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## koltraynor

utahgolf said:


> I wonder how many duck hunters count lost birds as part of their limit? :shock:


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## bugchuker

Since ethics are basically someone's personal standards and my standards/ beliefs are that grown men shouldn't be shooting yearling deer after they have already shot a couple, Can we pass that as a law too? Maybe we could implement some sort of a punch card for baby bucks.


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## dkhntrdstn

Man no wonder people are farad to post there hunting stories or post pic on here any more. Man give the guy a break and im sure all of you have made the same on here.But we all know you wont say it because you are this might a great hunter.


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## utahhunter678

dkhntrstn
Thx for not being a radical. It is interesting how many tempers are being tested in 1 post.


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## hamernhonkers

utahgolf said:


> I wonder how many duck hunters count lost birds as part of their limit? :shock:


I count everyone I lose..............but I never miss, so that's easy for me to keep track of lost birds. :shock:


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## elkfromabove

Bucksnort said:


> Elkfromabove
> 
> I am just curious. Who is the we that you represent? Thanks


I guess I don't understand the question as it relates to this thread! Any time I've used the word "we" in my posts here, it refers to the whole Mule Deer Planning Committee of which I am a member. If it helps, just substitute "Mule Deer Planning Committee" for "we" or "us". And I wouldn't consider myself "representing" them, just reporting on a brief discussion of an issue that came up in a meeting we all attended.

Or are you asking for the names of the committee members? Or the organizations involved?

Or are you asking about the United Wildlife Cooperative Board of Directors who asked me to be their representative on the Committee?


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## Lonetree

Yeah, we can't apply ethics to our selves as a group, especially not from within. That is for outsiders to use against us instead?


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## Bucksnort

I figured you were a part of a committee. I just wanted to know which one and your connection. I meant no hostility or anything. Just curious. Thanks for being involved and sharing your thoughts and the committees agenda with us.


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## elkfromabove

Lonetree said:


> Yeah, we can't apply ethics to our selves as a group, especially not from within. That is for outsiders to use against us instead?


 I think the Mule Deer Planning Committee was just insulted per Mr. Lonetree's MO.

And, FWIW, I attempted to introduce some nutrition language into the mule deer plan, but on both occasions, I couldn't get the discussion past Mr Lonetree's internet insults. He's his own worst enemy! (I did manage to get the word placed in the plan once!)


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## solopin

Solid work. Especially from a Newby. You gave due diligence in searching for a wounded animal, then you moved on and filled the freezer.


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## elkfromabove

One little trick I find helpful when tracking wounded game is to fill a small spray bottle full of hydrogen peroxide and spray it on suspected blood drops 'cause it causes blood to bubble up. Or just pattern the known drops and spray where the next one should be.


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## izzydog

utahhunter678 said:


> dkhntrstn
> Thx for not being a radical. It is interesting how many tempers are being tested in 1 post.


You must be new here! Most of the time you would be getting death threats and this post would be locked after committing such a "heinous" crime. The only thing to you should feel guilty about is cooking those backstraps past medium rare!


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## koltraynor

Calm down duckstsins. Let's not let this get out of control. Tone it down sir.


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