# Reduce Utah Chub Populations....Use These



## k2muskie (Oct 6, 2007)

Looks like Montana is having success using Tiger Muskies to control white suckers and carp in Trout waters...the Tigers are not necessarily hurting the Trout species in fact Trout fishing has improved along with Trout size after the placement of Tigers in several Montana waterways...at least based on this article.

So if Utah is having issues with chubs/carp in some waters why not place some Tigers in these waters??? Hmmmmmmmmmmm interesting why the DWR doesn't look into this but again I'm not a fishery biologist. How would Utah Trout anglers feel if Tigers were planted in more waterways especially the ones with an abudance of chubs and carp???

Interesting little article...

http://www.northernbroadcasting.com/Spo ... ntana.aspx


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## huntingbuddy (Sep 10, 2007)

Heck if they get rid of carp put em in Utah Lake, I would be fine with that.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

I think the DWR already has considered that. Joe's Valley.

I'm not opposed at all to it, as long as they plant enough of the TM to keep one every once in awhile. They're bound to get hooked mortally at some point.


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## duneman101 (Nov 6, 2009)

I discussed this once with a DWR guy down there at utah lake and he said that the fear of losing the June Sucker is the reason they haven't taken boilogical action like Planting TM. I hadn't even thought about that, the june sucker only lives in UL and the Provo river, they are smaller and less hardy than the carp so they are afraid that something like TM would be the straw on the camels back for them...


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## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

K2,
I think we will see more waters with TM. Now that we have some TM to plant.
Remember that for the past few years we have planted no TM because we had none to plant. I think the DWR will first begin to plant where they have in the past and then expand some, not much, but some.
I think they are hoping the other tiger (tiger trout) will be the silver bullet for controling chubs in most of the trout waters. Then there is the Berry, where the biggest Rotenone application ever done was to kill off the chubs and now, they are stocking chubs back into the thing, go figure.


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

Troll,
I asked the DWR about that and was told that the stocking of Chub in Strawberry was a typo and that they were NOT stocked there.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

I think tiger muskies (now that we have the capability to rear them in our own hatchery) will be used in more waters -- but they MUST be waters that suit them.

Also, something to consider is that wipers are being used more and more to help in certain waters. If surplus wipers, or even tm's, are available (after quotas for waters managed specifically for those fish are met), then why not toss a handful in places like Otter Creek and Minersville?


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## Troll (Oct 21, 2008)

Grandpa D said:


> Troll,
> I asked the DWR about that and was told that the stocking of Chub in Strawberry was a typo and that they were NOT stocked there.


That's good to know.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

I don't think too many trout guys would complain about TM in trout waters that have chub problems. Besides the two that PBH mentioned, I might also add in Scofield. I might be leery of putting them in premium warmwater fisheries like Sand Hollow and Jordanelle, but those places do not have any chub issues either.


As a historical note, Northern pike have been put in Utah Lake several times through the years. They have never taken. I do not know if it was a reproductive issue or that they just didn't thrive in the murky water, but it strongly suggests that TM would fare no better and would not be a suitable carp reducer. The ESA issues with the June sucker make the question moot anyway.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Catherder said:


> I don't think too many trout guys would complain about TM in trout waters that have chub problems. Besides the two that PBH mentioned, I might also add in Scofield. I might be leery of putting them in premium warmwater *fisheries like Sand Hollow and Jordanelle, but those places do not have any chub issues either.*


No chub issues??

I caught at least 20 of them last time I floated the Rock Cliff area, most of 'em were close to 14" long. Not even one trout or bass either...It might get pretty interesting putting them in Jordanelle. Wake up Catherder...(ouch)..


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

.45 said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think too many trout guys would complain about TM in trout waters that have chub problems. Besides the two that PBH mentioned, I might also add in Scofield. I might be leery of putting them in premium warmwater *fisheries like Sand Hollow and Jordanelle, but those places do not have any chub issues either.*
> ...


Yep, I'm sure you did, and I'd bet that every one of them was over 11-13 inches long. I get them too. ( caught a 14er on a 4 inch senko this summer) BUT, they are not a problem, they are an asset. Their offspring feed the smallies I catch. (and the perch and browns too) The problem there is that those big old chubs are just that, old and are beginning to die out. You never catch a young one. They all get eaten! The DWR has been documenting this in their gillnetting studies at Jordanelle, and has shown that the chubs are getting progressively older and are not being replaced. They will eventually die out and the fishery will be down one important forage species and will be the poorer for it.

When are you going to let me show you how to catch something besides fugly old chubs out of Rock Cliffs?


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Catherder said:


> When are you going to let me show you how to catch something besides fugly old chubs out of Rock Cliffs?


You offering to take me trout hunt'in ?? :shock:

Yeah baby !!! How about when the water temp is back to at least 45 degrees, I'll be glad to meet you up there !


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

.45 said:


> You offering to take me trout hunt'in ?? :shock:


Hmmm, I was thinking of something a bit more substantial than a silly trout. 

While I enjoy my share of fishing for troutkind, and have caught a few nice ones up there, going trout fishing during the time I'm there the most would be the equivalent to going to a Chinese restaurant for a hamburger.


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## neverdrawn (Jan 3, 2009)

I've had the opportunity to fish for wipers in Newcastle wtih my flyrod for the past several years. In doing so I also catch smallmouth and trout. I have noticed since the introduction of the wipers the shiners have declined every year to the point you rarely see them anymore. The past couple of years I've also notice I'm catching fewer and fewer smallies. I think now the wipers have put a hurting on the shiners they have started to prey on the young smallmouth and are really hurting the recruitment of naturally spawned new young bass. Also, the trout must be a little larger when planted so they don't become wiper feed thereby costing more to provide for the reservoir. This would probably be the same issue if the T.M. are planted in lakes without a huge population of chubs for a food base. I'm certainly not a fisheries biologist so this is strictly opinion but certainly seems to be the trend at Newcaslte. I would take the wipers over the shiners any day however. What a fight on a fly rod!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

neverdrawn -- A couple things to consider concerning Newcastle:

1. If wipers are hurting the smallmouth population because they've eliminated the shiners, then the DWR simply needs to cut back on the number of wipers being stocked.

2. smallmouth and wipers occupy a different portion of the lake. Smallmouth, especially young fish, keep to cover. Rocky shorelines, etc. They are not an open-water fish. Wipers are open-water fish. I'm sure that wiper do feed on smallmouth periodically, but I don't believe that the wipers are having a negative impact on smallmouth.

3. The trout have always been stocked as catchables (9" fish). Prior to wipers, the trout had to be stocked as larger fish just to compete with the shiners. So the wipers have probably actually given the trout a bigger "chance" to survive.

4. You are right. Wipers are a blast on a fly rod.



I never thought I'd say this, but I worry about the golden shiners in Newcastle! I worry that the wipers have truly wiped them out. If we want to keep a good wiper fishery going down there, we may need to cut back on the number of wipers that are stocked in there.

I also think that wipers are a far better fish for "chub control" than a tiger musky ever will be. The reason? Tiger Musky keep to cover. Wipers and chubs are both open-water fish. Put TM's in lakes that need the **** perch population reduced!


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