# What is your 100 yd pattern?



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

What is your 100yd pattern for 3 shots?

I had been using shock waves 250 gr, with 120 gr pyrodex pellets, variflame primers, Cabelas 1x scope getting pretty fair results (embarrassed to say how bad). My buddy told me to switch to Precision QT bullets and the patter has tightened significantly with that simple change to 240 gr (his old man shoots all the time and found these to be the best for him). I hear a guy last night say that he has a 1" pattern from 100 yds at the range (forgot to actually look at his target), which I find hard to believe; he was using a red dot. I do not see how you can possibly get that tight of a range with a non magnified scope; I can barely tell that I am focused on the middle of the target. What are you guys achieving? (BTW, I just had to come in to work for a couple of hours today and I will then be at it).


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Huge,
I shot a one inch group last weekend with my muzzleloader for the first time. I was very surprised to say the least, but it can be done! I shoot 160Grain power point, (no longer available) using 90 grains of powder. I shoot a White Custom muzzleloader with a Sightron 1X scope. 
I used to use a red dot, and I was presented with a shot at 80 yards on a dandy of a buck 3 years ago. However, when I found the buck in my sight picture and centered my red dot on the buck, the dot covered from the bottom of his belly to the top of his back. AT 80 YARDS! Unfortunately I was not sure where my bullet would hit, and elected not to take the shot for fear that I would make a bad shot and not recover the animal. I went home that night, purchased the sigthron 1X scope and mounted it up. I will never use the red dot again for that reason. Some say they really like it, and I am sure that is the case, but I don't think they can get quite the precision as a pair of fine cross hairs. At 100 yards, I can line my cross hairs with the up and down center lines of a target, and place three holes within 3 inches everytime. I could never do that with the red dot. I sortof just hoped for a Vital grouping...which is not good enough for me to feel comfortable shooting an animal.
To that end, let me tell each of you something that I learned when I did my research on my 1X scope. I tried several out, and compared each. I am a FIRM advicate of the Sightron, and let me tell you why.
1st: Lifetime, no questions asked warranty. (Lots of corrosion possible with muzzy's)
2nd: Price was much less than others
3rd and most important: The feild of view on the Sighton is HUGE compared to others. I mean, not even close! 
4th: Customers feedbacks. (This is why I am giving mine) I have hearn nothing but good about their 1X scopes!
I beleive you can pick one up for just over $100.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Duckholla,
I appreciate the feedback; I was equally as unimpressed with the Red Dot. However, the only feedback on the Sightron that I have found was this: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005. Not that I have looked like crazy; but this guy complained of the same problem as you had with the Red Dot. I chose the Cabelas Pine Ridge for each reason that you mention, lifetime satisfaction guaranty on everything at Cabelas, only $70, I saw zero difference with the Nikon at half the price. any ways, I am looking to improve, I am impressed with your performance, are the Sightron hairs much finer? It appears that Sportsmans does carry Sightron, correct? Unfortunately Cabelas does not.


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## Bears Butt (Sep 12, 2007)

TC Renegade 54 cal, 425 gr. Hornady Great Plains Bullet, 100 gr. FFg blackpowder, using a rest and table, open sights....3 shots....5 inch pattern.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

as for mine 54 cal I can put them inside a 3" circle at 50 yrds using power belts 100 grns powder with open sights.
for the 50 cal I have been using t/c shock waves with 80 grns powder and hit a 5" circle at 100 yrds with an red dot scope. have not tried opened sights with this gun yet.
i plan on changing to a bore size slug with the 50 cal.

I'm selling all the sabots that I have look in the trading post section for more details


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## Goldtip (Oct 14, 2007)

*Who sights in at 100 yards?*

I kind of get a kick out of this every time I read about the wind blowing and three hundred yard kill shots with muzzies.

In Utah it is illegal to use a magnified scope above one power...! The human eye on average can see at 1.5 power. The dot on most red dot scope will cover up a 4 inch dot at 100 yards, even if it is a fine dot setting. Even with a fine peep open sights I would question someone shooting groups at 100 yards much under 4 inches.

My all time best is a 3 shot group, just under 4 inches at 100 yards with a red dot 1 power scope on a White Super 91 .45 caliber. I shoot a 460 grain No Excuse conical and 85 grains of Clean Shot BP substitute.

I find that it is much more advantageous to target practice at 60 yards with a 3 inch dot. I have a much more defined sight picture and I takes most all of the guess work out on holding the sight picture.

So unless you are shooting with your 3 X 9 scope on your muzzle loader, you are most likely just kidding yourself and lying to the rest of us when you say you shoot under 2 inch groups out of the old smoke pole at 100 yards with open sights.

Just my thoughts from many rounds at the range....Goldtip


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

I use a 9x scope for load development simply because the dot covers so dang much. once I have fine tuned the muzz and its load I then put on my red dot and practice practice practice.

I use an Aimpoint that has a 2 mil red dot.
2 mil covers up about 2 inches at 100 yards.
I use 25yard pistol targets that have a ten inch black center, they allow me to aquire an excellent sight picture clear out to 300 yards.

I can center the dot on a deers vitals very well out to 180 yards, after that it does cover too much. I wont shoot at a deer past 150 yards.

My muzzleloaders typically shoot between 2 and 3 inch groups when I do my part.


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## IcatchEm (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't know if this is good or bad


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

I would like to have it at least 1" high at a 100 yards


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## IcatchEm (Sep 11, 2007)

Yeah, I know they were a little low, I was only using 80 grains of pyrodex with round ball to see what it would do at 100 yards. The first shot was the one in the middle, the second was on the right.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

All of your guy's bullets sound so fancy. I shoot a 58 cal round ball with 0.10 thickness patch and I can shoot 3 inches groups at 100yds. with iron buckhorn sights. I dont need the sissy red dot. I shoot 70 grains of power and my round ball is 300 grains. I can also shoot mine 100 times before I have to clean it.


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## bigpapacow (Nov 15, 2007)

Cross hairs make all the difference for me.

With a traditions Pursuit LT .50 Cal, I run a cabelas hollowsight style red dot that has a crosshair setting that I use instead of the dot. The dot does cover too much, but the crosshair works rather well. It cost me around $70. Shooting a 250 grain Hornady SST saboted bullet, I group just under or just over 2 inches at 100 yards depending on how shaky I am that day. I tried powerbelts in the 295 grain flavor with poorer results-4 to 5 inch groups, and the Hornady XTP 230's with results in between the two loads mentioned before. I tried some barnes that I can't even remember the size that shot horribly as well. Like 8 inch groups. All these loads were shot with 100 grains of pyrodex-that is 2 50 grain pellets. I have loose powder that I have had for a while, but have yet to try it out. I have a pile of TC Shockwaves in 200 Grains that I have been itching to try out at the range, but have not found the time yet. So, for me accuracy has been acceptable with the hollowsight crosshairs. However, I am thinking about getting a 1 power scope anyway because I am constantly checking the dial on the hollowsight when I am in the field to make sure it hasn't accidently been bumped into the on position. I keep picturing myself pulling up for a shot on a big buck and realizing that the battery is dead in the sight. Can't shake it. Also, During the middle of the day it is difficult to see the red crosshairs. Both of my brothers have the TC 1 power scope on top of TC Omegas that shoot between 2 and 3 inch groups consistently. So, maybe I will check those out.


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## Firehawk (Sep 30, 2007)

I recognize that this is an old topic, but I thought I might chime in.

I shot 535 grain No Excuse Conicals and 110 grains of Pyrodex RS out of my TC Firehawk .54 caliber. This combination (although it kicked hard) would consistently group 5 shots touching at 100 yards with my peep sighted TC Firehawk.

Finally, I decided I wanted a rifle with a removable breech plug and faster twist "cause they were supposed to shoot more accurately". I bought a Knight Wolverine 209 (Bighorn) with a 26" barrel in .50 caliber. I bought the stainless steel version and decided that since I was going modern, I would go modern all the way. I purchased a Burris 1x scope to top it off.

What I found was interesting. At 50 yards I could drill the target with extremely tight groups, but at 100 yards I struggled getting any kind of consistent tight groups. I tried different bullets and found some shot better than others, but what I realized was that the scope's crosshairs covered the entire 6" Shoot n c black dot at 100 yards. I was struggling with getting the same sight picture on each shot and the groups suggested that was an issue. So after using the gun to kill a deer the first fall, I decided that I would try a peep again as that is what I was used to shooting.

I installed a Williams peep on my Knight and instantly my groups improved. I shoot the Barnes Spitfire 285 grain with 100 grains of loose 777 powder and a CCI 209 primer in my little red disc. My groups are consistently in the 1 1/2-2" size with five shots. Usually I have shot three shot that cut into each other and then have a shot or two that lie slighter out of the group. I have had a few groups that were SCARY accurate and even outshoot scoped centerfire rifle shooters on occasion.

So, what was the difference to me? The peep sight. I love how much easier it is to line up the exact same way every shot. That has been the key to my success in shooting my MLers over the years. 

Have fun!

Firehawk


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That is a good point; I experience the same problem. I do not even recall seeing any peeps at SW; where did you get yours? On that note I was about to pull the trigger on trying out some loose powder; that is a little pricier election than I anticpated, $20 for powder, $30 for the flask and $10 for the measuring deal--I think I will stick with pellets for the moment.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> That is a good point; I experience the same problem. I do not even recall seeing any peeps at SW; where did you get yours?


I think I saw some TC brand peeps up at Kents Shooters Supply in Ogden, otherwise most mail order outfits sell them; I'd look online. Most run around $40 to 50.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

I shoot 4 inch groups with 100 grains of triple 7 and 245 grn Powerbelt arrow tips. I shoot the open sights that came on my Omega. I have killed two deer with the gun


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## Firehawk (Sep 30, 2007)

Huge 29,

I apologize I didn't see your question. I picked my Williams Peep for my Knight at SW but they don't carry it any longer. You can buy them online or at Cabelas. My buddy got one at Cabelas and it is really good. 

On my Traditional Cabelas Hawken, I installed a TC Peep from Cabelas.

Good luck!

Firehawk


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