# Is Hunting Ethical



## kikenurbut (Nov 15, 2007)

Hey all,

Wondering if any of ya can point me in the right direction. I am compiling information for a college paper on "Is Hunting Ethical". I am looking for any info that backs up my side of yes. Mainly stats on how many deer/elk die each year due to starvation. I am going to call the DWR tommorrow and see if they have anything like that, but any ideas?

Bytheway....I am a hunter (didn't draw on the Books, but hey, there is always next year).

Thanks all


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

You just tell them that Elk 22 says yes it is...............That will be plenty of info to get an A.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

He aint lyin'. :wink:


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## EPEK (Sep 11, 2007)

Hunting is not only ethical it is wholesome. I don't know the stats, but I have crossed a few winter killed (starved) animals and one was a moose which had laid down and obviously could not move for how ever long it took it to 'dump' about a wheel barrel full of moosed droppings and then finally expire.


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## FLY741 (Nov 30, 2007)

It will be as soon as EPEK and group finishes their new broadhead!!!!


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## 10000ft. (Oct 29, 2007)

I heard Mossbacks website has a lot of good information on ethics and hunting.

o-|| 





Sorry, I was one of those kids who just had to throw a rock at the hornets nest. :lol: :lol: :|


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

This might be a little long and I might not get finished before I am called to do something usefull but I have given this subject some thought as I think all hunters should do. First you have to define "hunting". And you have to define hunting as "the legal harvisting of game by sportsmen". You have to define hunting this way because hunting is a very regulated activity. It is regulate by agencies charged with the protection, management and conservation of wildlife resources. The regulations set down by these agencies reflect that charge. So hunting as defined poses no threat to wildlife. "Poaching" on the other hand is done outside the bounds of those regulations and therefore does pose a threat to the same wildlife enjoyed by hunters and non hunters alike. That is why poaching is held in equal reprehension by hunters and non hunters. The significance of defining hunting this way is that HUNTING POSES NO THREAT TO WILDLIFE, THEREFORE IT IS ETHICAL. Then you should talk about the carrying capacity of habitat. I do not have hard numbers so I will use hypothetical ones. Lets say the CC of a given area of habitat will support 100 deer through the winter months. So in the spring there are 100 deer. If 75% are does ( a realistic number) and each doe has an average of 2 fawns the number of deer increases substantially. Not all of the fawns will survive and some will be predated, killed on highways, etc. But if the number of deer increases even by 30% there will then be 130 deer on habitat that can support 100. If uncontrolled into the next winter all 130 will survive untill most of the food is gone then most of the deer will die. Then the habitat will be so depleted that it will take many years for it to recover to support 100 deer again. Now if the DWR from past experience knows that about 30% of hunters are successful and they issue 100 hunting permits (the cost of which goes to supporting the protection, management and conservation of wildlife and wildlife habitat) in that area 30 deer will be harvested and consumed and the remaining 100 deer are able to survive the winter year after year. Now what if 30% of that habitat is taken up by a subdivision. What does that to to all of the hypothetical numbers? So who is responsable for the loss of more deer, hunters, or those who build and buy homes in the middle of deer habitat? Lastly I would talk about "baseball". I like to watch baseball. But sitting in the stands, eating popcorn and cheering for the home team is just not the same as picking up a bat and steping to the plate. Most of the year I enjoy being in the outdoors and observing wildlife. But for a few weeks each fall I pick up a weapon and go into the field with the intent to kill. By doing this I am no longer an observer of nature but a participant, participating in the ancient deadly game of preditor and pray. By so doing I have a better appreciation of nature, the natural ways of things and of life and of death , not in spite of the fact that I am a hunter but BECAUSE I AM A HUNTER. I hope this will give you some ideas.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Check out the current (May 2008) American Hunter Magazine (NRA) for the article "5 Steps to Convert An Anti-Hunter" page 36. Maybe you can use some of those ideas to start.

We'll never convince everybody, but we'll get some and we'll be able to explain our passion to the next generation in a way that uses logic, reasoning, and ethics, because hunting is logical, reasonable and ethical as well as fulfilling and enjoyable. Good luck!


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## kikenurbut (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your input. Especially to Campfire. I hope you don't mind, but I will quoting ya in my presentation!


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

kikenurbut said:


> > I hope you don't mind, but I will quoting ya in my presentation!
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for your input. Especially to Campfire. I hope you don't mind, but I will quoting ya in my presentation!


Go for it and good luck.


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## Guest (May 9, 2008)

I have never understood the whole "ethics of hunting" debate. Man is a hunter. Period. End of story. **** Sapiens evolved from the lower primates to become the dominant species on the planet because he became a hunter and learned how to master his environment. Our first tools were weapons for hunting, our first language was to plan and coordinate large hunts, our first works of art were cave paintings depicting the hunt. We were all breed for hunting. It is in our DNA. And now our post-modern pop-culture wants to tell us its not "ethical"?!?! BULL$#@%!! 

In my mind, its not a question of whether or not hunting in general is ethical, only whether certain methods of hunting are ethical. I think we can all agree that hunting with a machine-gun from a helicopter would not be very ethical. Most of it has to do with the concept of "fair-chase", which I personally subscribe to. But ethics are difficult to define because they are highly subjective. The bottom line is it is the responsibility of wildlife conservation agencies, like the DWR, to determine appropriate methods of hunting, and to set and enforce limits on it so that the health and well-being of wildlife populations is protected. We may not need to hunt to feed our families anymore, and therefore conservation should be the top priority, but it really is who we are as a species, and telling someone to suppress those primal instincts, hard wired by 200,000 years of evolution, is like telling your teen-aged son not to masturbate. Ain't gonna happen! :twisted:


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## imadogman (Sep 11, 2007)

You should title your paper "Is Golfing Ethical"...as I see little difference between Golfing and Hunting (with the exception that golf courses in many areas do significantly more harm to wildlife than hunting does, especially in the desert.) 

Oh, and you can throw a golf club...which I don't recommend doing with any weapons.


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

I gave a speech on hunting and why it is ethical, or important or whatever in one of my college classes a couple of years ago. It was awesome. The girl that went right before ironically spoke about animal rights.


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## kikenurbut (Nov 15, 2007)

legacy said:


> I gave a speech on hunting and why it is ethical, or important or whatever in one of my college classes a couple of years ago. It was awesome. The girl that went right before ironically spoke about animal rights.


How about a copy of it! :twisted:


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

Four syllables...pla-giar-is-m!  Maybe when I get home tonight I'll look for the report and share some ideas. I also have a 10 page report I did in microeconmics regarding some of the same issues.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

yes it is


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

My wise older sister just pointed something out that I thought was very poignant. Something about your question is off. I felt the same way, but she did a good job of pin wheeling it. The question that needs to be asked is "is hunting moral?". 

Campfire made good points of needing to define hunting. Hunter A can hunt ethically while hunter B can hunt unethically, but is either one of them being moral while killing animals? 

And to chime in on wether it is moral or not, I say of course it is, but not because it is hardwired into our DNA. There is a lot of stuff my blood wants me to do, and only 4% of it is moral. Know what I mean??? 

And all of you forum honks with 2,000+ posts, see how original you can be when making fun of me for hanging out with my sister late on a Saturday night. You know who you are, and I will not be labeled as a hillbilly.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Hillbilly!


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

**** Hillbilly! Let me guess treehugnhuntr was over there too!


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## campfire (Sep 9, 2007)

IWAB,
Your sister is spot on. Hunting is ethical because it poses no threat to wildlife. The question is whether hunting is moral. Hunting may not be in our blood but it is in our nature. Humans are not capable of photosynthesis, chemosynthesis, or thermosynthesis. Humans are totally and completely dependent on the predation of other forms of life for their very existance. This is a fact of life. However, the socialization, specialization and urbanization of human society has made a large portion of human society psycologically and geographically distant from some of the simple facts of life. We get in an automobile, burn up some hydrocarbons and drive to the local supermarket, buy a turkey and take it home and pop in the oven for Thanksgiving dinner. And the thought never occures to us that someone somewhere had to slaughter, gut, pluck, clean and prepare another living organism just so we can consume it's flesh for our Thanksgiving feast. That we do not think about it changes the fact of life not one bit. It just changes only our perception of it. Our individual morals are a product of our perception of many of the simple facts of life. Is it moral to hire someone to do our killing for us but not moral to do the killing ourselves? This inconsistancy is obsurd. Hunting is ethical because it poses no threat to wildlife. It is moral because it is part of our nature. But the burning question is: "Is it moral to enjoy doing our own killing?" That is a questiion that each and every individual must answer for his or her self. And I might add within the context of the sum of existing circumstances. Under one set of circumstrances I have enjoyed killing anamals emensly. Under other circumstances I have killed anamals and found it very distasteful no matter how moral or ethical it was. There are many aspects of hunting that make it enjoyable that have little or nothing to do with the killing of anamals. But hunting is not immoral just because it involves the intent to kill because predation is part of our nature.


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## scott_rn (Sep 11, 2007)

I had a professor with an interesting perspective, he felt hunters and vegans were the only honest people on earth. Everyone else distances themselves from the source of their food.


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## idiot with a bow (Sep 10, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> **** Hillbilly! Let me guess treehugnhuntr was over there too!


No, he was at my mom's house!



> IWAB,
> Your sister is spot on.


That's why I spend my Saturday nights with her...... cooking meth......


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

FeralHuman said:


> I have never understood the whole "ethics of hunting" debate.* Man is a hunter. Period. End of story.* **** Sapiens evolved from the lower primates to become the dominant species on the planet because he became a hunter and learned how to master his environment. Our first tools were weapons for hunting, our first language was to plan and coordinate large hunts, our first works of art were cave paintings depicting the hunt. We were all breed for hunting. It is in our DNA. And now our post-modern pop-culture wants to tell us its not "ethical"?!?! BULL$#@%!!
> 
> Where you said end of story...................that would have been a good place to end it! You are trying to get me to give your post credibility and tell me that I evolved from an ape............What do you take me for? I would tend to believe something extremely different than that. Off the subject i know and I'm sorry for that but I am in awe of the thought of coming about from an ape.
> 
> ...


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

idiot with a bow said:


> [quote="fixed blade":2y9pf44d]**** Hillbilly! Let me guess treehugnhuntr was over there too!


No, he was at my mom's house!



> IWAB,
> Your sister is spot on.


That's why I spend my Saturday nights with her...... cooking meth......[/quote:2y9pf44d]

Don't give sis all of the cred., Mom makes a mean pot of trailer crank too. It took me awhile to figure out why she always wanted me to stop by the grocery store and pick up a case of ammonia before I came over. It was well worth the wait.

While you and sis were studying the philosophical structure of the human race on Saturday night, we were popping each others zits and taking apart audio/video equipment.


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## Guest (May 13, 2008)

elk22hunter said:


> Where you said end of story...................that would have been a good place to end it! You are trying to get me to give your post credibility and tell me that I evolved from an ape............What do you take me for? I would tend to believe something extremely different than that. Off the subject i know and I'm sorry for that but I am in awe of the thought of coming about from an ape.


Sorry for giving offense. I know that evolution is not a popular topic around these parts, and I dont want to hijack the thread with a in-depth discussion of it. I was just trying to provide scientifically supported evidence to support the claim that "Man is a hunter. Period. End of story." That may not be necessary in this forum but if I made that claim in any other forum I would have to back it up with something, which is what I was attempting to do. And for me, mankind's evolution as a species is the ultimate justification for hunting. If kikenurbutt is going to defend his pro-hunting assertion in an academic setting then a little academically supported evidence may be in order (subject to his own personal beliefs, of course). Evolution may not be popular in religious forums but it is welcomed with open arms in academic ones (unless you go to BYU ).


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## elk22hunter (Sep 7, 2007)

FeralHuman said:


> elk22hunter said:
> 
> 
> > Where you said end of story...................that would have been a good place to end it! You are trying to get me to give your post credibility and tell me that I evolved from an ape............What do you take me for? I would tend to believe something extremely different than that. Off the subject i know and I'm sorry for that but I am in awe of the thought of coming about from an ape.
> ...


What the heck, lets hijack it!  
I am not offended, it just made me laugh to think that someone might really believe that in that theory. I am simply waiting for another monkey to turn into a human. It just aint gunna happin'. 

By the way, welcome to the forum.


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## EPEK (Sep 11, 2007)

I do know a few humans that turned into monkeys.


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