# Very disappointed



## gpskid

Would think if the DWR releases on there web site information about the upland hunts that they wouldn't show some data backing there claims.
Is it just me or does others feel this ? My Opinion only

Really best in 10 years...???

I have been out 3 days now, seen 1 grouse

Yes cottontail looks good

But really where do they get this from, could somebody answer with real data ?

I talk to no less that 10 bowhunters, grouse hunter the last few days, they all feel the same, DWR has a bunch of BS

The kid


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## TimJ

Have the 10 people you've talked to in the last few days all been in the same general area? If so, the area is hunted out and you need a new spot. 

Odd you haven't seen any grouse though. I've seen quite a few this year.


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## Critter

I have seen plenty of grouse this year. Granted it was a couple of weeks before the season started but they are out there.


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## gpskid

Really ,I said the ten plus people had not seen no grouse


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## gpskid

miss the question people...
where does DWR get this info


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## 3arabians

If you read the recent article I believe it states they don't actually do a count on grouse but that while they were out counting other species and what not; their people reported seeing more grouse than in previous years. (Whatever that is worth) Personally Ive been seeing more grouse this year than past years and am looking forward to packing my shotgun on my last scouting trip before the muzzy hunt starts. Hopefully I can bag a couple


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## Critter

Where have you been hunting them and are you using a dog? 

You can hike all over the mountain and not see a single one but come back to your truck and they'll be sitting in the tree above it. 

I have gone out hunting them and haven't seen a thing but come deer or elk season and all I have with me is a rifle and I'll see them all over the place. 

Grouse are where you find them and unless you have a dog to find them it can be a tough hunt, and I doubt that any of the bow hunters that you talked to had a bird dog with them.


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## Jedidiah

I was literally stepping on grouse and chukar last year. During the elk hunt I came on a group of 5-6 grouse that I could have grabbed and throttled to death. Once I sat down and ate lunch on a log, then stood up to continue on and a grouse flew out from a bush not three feet from me. There were so many encounters with grouse during October that I've forgotten most of them. Of course the best was the two-fer where I shot one and heard flapping in the bushes while cleaning the first one and found a second one I had winged in the neck.


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## colorcountrygunner

I have seen quite a few more grouse this year than in the past few years. Usually I would be itching to get after them with my shotgun, but anymore I find myself not wanting to kill them and just letting them go on their merry way.


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## Jedidiah

Better that they go into my stew pot than into a coyote or fox, which would be the norm with how many there are now. I'm talking forest grouse of course, sage and sharp-tailed are a different story. Rabbits are the same way, the places where I see rabbits are just overflowing...there's a stretch of highway where you can stand and look in both directions and see half a dozen fresh dead cottontails each way.


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## Fowlmouth

gpskid said:


> miss the question people...
> where does DWR get this info


Great question, I have wondered the same thing. I don't think I have shot a grouse in 10 years. I did see some on the bow hunt this year however.


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## 3arabians

colorcountrygunner said:


> I have seen quite a few more grouse this year than in the past few years. Usually I would be itching to get after them with my shotgun, but anymore I find myself not wanting to kill them and just letting them go on their merry way.


But they are just so **** tasty


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## Kwalk3

I've seen plenty of grouse this year......


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## gpskid

Sooo still doesn't answer my question,a few of u have seen grouse....
Soooo this is were DWR gets info for best in ten year ?


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## brendo

gpskid said:


> Sooo still doesn't answer my question,a few of u have seen grouse....
> Soooo this is were DWR gets info for best in ten year ?


They fly in helicopters, every 5 they count equals 5000.







Are you mad at the DWR for your lack of success? If its really not the best in ten years I don't know why you are even trying, might as well stay home..


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## gpskid

I think Brendo tells it like it is as far as how they count, but your attitude tells me you must work for them. I did, but I'm now retired hunting tomorrow, hoping things will get better, not staying home....


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## brendo

On a serious note I think people give the DWR a way harder time than they deserve. They say "should be" and "I think" quite frequently in the article and they base their claims off of the great conditions of habitat and feed we have experienced this year. they specifically say they don't count grouse but like what they have seen. Do you honestly think there is an accurate way of counting grouse?


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## gpskid

Really would you post what you really don't know ?


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## gpskid

I only asked for the data, is that so hard?


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## brendo

Your asking for data is what i was addressing. They never claim to have any specifically on the animals. They base their claims off of habitat and feed. which I'm sure they have data on if you were so inclined to call them and ask for it. It is simply an article to get people excited about hunting upland.


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## gpskid

Yes, I'll call my buddy Dean tomorrow,thank you


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## gpskid

You should address only what you know or have knowledge of


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## brendo

The whole thing is speculation. What did I address that I didn't know?


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## mtnrunner260

Gskid if you worked there is there someone you know who you could ask and share the info with us? It almost seems weird that you would ask here when you could go to the source. 
Hope you get a chance to get back out and find some birds.


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## martymcfly73

This thread is something out of a Seinfeld episode. My head hurts...


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## swbuckmaster

I'd say it's the best for everything I've seen in since 1993.


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## willfish4food

swbuckmaster said:


> I'd say it's the best for everything I've seen in since 1993.


Really SW, do you have hard data to back that up? gpskid is looking for hard data to back up claims. Is that so hard to understand? ;-)


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## Packfish

BY my own personal hiking in the areas thru out the summer that I hunt and plan to hunt- looks like a good year to me and that's the only "hard data" that I can honestly rely on. Unless someone is doing "drum counts" thru out the state and since grouse is not the king here I don't think you are going to get the "hard " data you are looking for.


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## wyoming2utah

Kid, you write like you haven't passed the 8th grade...go back to school. Once you have mastered some of the more basic skills taught in school, do some research on grouse counting, population estimates, and what the best ways of determining hunting success or lack of success....then, report back to us in a more scholarly tone. Maybe you will get more of what you are looking for...!


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## phorisc

i saw like 2 grouse in the wasatch front area


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## lunkerhunter2

Somebody please post a picture of some dead grouse(hard data)and silence the lamb?-O,-


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## polarbear

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Somebody please post a picture of some dead grouse(hard data)and silence the lamb?-O,-


OK









All I know is that I've got into grouse every day this elk season. Thumped one a couple days ago with my bow and ate him for lunch with some oil and a little seasoned salt. Delicious. I could have shot a couple more, but arrows are expensive.


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## gpskid

wyoming2utah said:


> Kid, you write like you haven't passed the 8th grade...go back to school. Once you have mastered some of the more basic skills taught in school, do some research on grouse counting, population estimates, and what the best ways of determining hunting success or lack of success....then, report back to us in a more scholarly tone. Maybe you will get more of what you are looking for...!


Really, if I had wrote that my anse would be gone off this forum

As for experience at grouse hunting this is my 48th year, maybe you school boys should take a little advice from your piers'


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## Jedidiah

Do keep in mind, it was predicted that grouse numbers in Salt Lake County and northern Utah County would be low for a couple-three years due to the freak June snow storm in 2014 that killed most of the newly hatched chicks.


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## gpskid

Here's my hard data from the last few days:
My miles 11.29 miles
My old dog, 5.05 miles, Jr dog 18.11, my pup 23.25

Points on several flocks of turkeys, points on 3 single blue grouse and one pair of Ruffs, birds harvested two blues one ruff.

Normally these areas would produce a minimum of 15-20 birds per day but not this year.

So my original question before things got stirred up is where does DWR gather or find information for posting the best forest grouse hunting in ten years, my personal opinion is the cycle was 3 years ago.
Yes DWR personal do take things personal
Thanks The Kid


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## neverdrawn

Who's on first?


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## Winglish

I've got news for you guys- gpskid has a pair of the most experienced English setters you'll ever lay eyes on. I don't know about the pup. The old dog he mentioned is a legend. This guy knows birds and he knows hunting. 

gpskid, I have no data other than my eyes and ears. I have been up AF Canyon a few times and I have not seen squat. Make it 11 guys who have had rotten luck. But my old Lab is 12 now and mostly along for a stroll. I'm not in the best shape myself, so take it for what it's worth.


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## Jedidiah

Winglish said:


> I have been up AF Canyon a few times and I have not seen squat.


Uhhhh....I just said that last years June snow storm wiped out a bunch of chicks in Salt Lake and northern Utah counties. gpskid, you hunting in that area? Might explain it.


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## Packfish

4 for 5 this morning- saw 11 birds in 2 hours. heard 4 more flushes -2 birds from this year and two adults. Most birds I saw on the edge on sage and aspen- Bird crops were full of Oregon Grape leaves and snails . Both dogs worked very well-couldn't have been more pleased especially with the retrieves.


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## DallanC

Jedidiah said:


> Might explain it.


Sorry, you can probably blame my boy for that... he absolutely murdered the Grouse population there last year, lmao. It was pretty fun to watch, I never even took a gun with me. I dont think we came home empty handed a single time.

-DallanC


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## Jedidiah

Can I get bonus cred points for the Outback logo? On my way back from bunny blasting I decided to check my grouse spot....sure enough, there they were....and my dog has barely enough brains to rattle around in her head when she shakes it!

(Top of the page, saweeeeeeet.)


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## 3arabians

Jedidiah said:


> Can I get bonus cred points for the Outback logo? On my way back from bunny blasting I decided to check my grouse spot....sure enough, there they were....and my dog has barely enough brains to rattle around in her head when she shakes it!
> 
> (Top of the page, saweeeeeeet.)


-5 creds for the outback logo you yuppy.  Haha just joking nice bird congrats.


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## Jedidiah

The talk in earlier threads about Subarus being hippie-*****-yuppy-mobiles has me committed to taking pictures of all my fish and game in front of the Outback logo. Get ready to see the whole bumper stacked with rabbits next month!


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## gpskid

Hey Jed you hijacking this post 
So my analysis for this weeks grouse hunting is this; Northern is looking good, central is fair to poor and southern is fair to good, depending on the spot. I found broods of birds are still relatively between 7700 Ft and 8200 Ft, the few males are 9000 ft to 9400 ft.
Road trip to south shows broods are between 4-6 birds between sagebrush and aspen like packfish commented.
Had some very good points, usually don't shoot a lot but had an excellent point on a double and treated both hounds with a bird to retrieve, dinner today is grouse.

Winglish thank you for comments, my dogs are Lewelllin Setters
Opie is now 13 years old, going to be a sad day when he's gone, one in a million dog.
My younger dogs are all his pups. My forest grouse hunting is just to get in shape for chukars

Can't wait to hear the chukar forcast
Think Brendo could give us the best report on that HEHE, would like to see her go with Becker and the gang in the Helicopter she posted about to see her puke doing chukar counts -O,-


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## Jedidiah

gpskid said:


> Hey Jed you hijacking this post


Hah, sorry. The part about central being fair to poor doesn't surprise me and it's what I've been seeing too. Anywhere in the state that got hit by that storm in June last year is going to be empty of birds in the one year old range.


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## hawglips

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Somebody please post a picture of some dead grouse(hard data)and silence the lamb?-O,-


My son and nephew got in a few this past Saturday,


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## bamacpl

The #'s are the same..... DWR BS


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## gpskid

Took a couple days off from chasing chickens to help my son pack out a nice bull on this anybull unit.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d61/GPSKID/P1140001.jpg<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src=

http://s33.photobucket.com/user/GPSKID/media/P1130986.jpg.html

A little sore today but I did find one covey of 5 Blues and a covey of 4 ruffs

They are still at 7800- 8000 ft , the birds are still very young.... related to another post on here, shoot lighter shells , lighter guns this early in the season


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## utahgolf

wish they'd let these grouse shake the egg shells off their feathers before they let people hunt them!


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## Airborne

utahgolf said:


> wish they'd let these grouse shake the egg shells off their feathers before they let people hunt them!


I guess you want to put antler restrictions on grouse then, 3 point or better right :grin:


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## utahgolf

I've seen some little ones struggle the beginning of September before. Dead is dead I guess tho. Not sure what a few weeks of extra time would hurt.


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## Airborne

gpskid said:


> Winglish thank you for comments, my dogs are Lewelllin Setters
> -


Well that is your problem right there--get a pointer or three and your bird finding will increase! 

Congrats on the bull!! And on the any bull no less! A mutual friend of ours told me that you guys have a few areas figured out--you sure proved him right.


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## T-dubs-42

I read the article concerning the upland hunt. It clearly stated that they don't do official surveys or data collection on grouse, but the biologists in the field reported seeing high numbers, especially the hens and chicks. Read the article, not just the headlines.:neutral:


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## gpskid

T-dubs-42 said:


> I read the article concerning the upland hunt. It clearly stated that they don't do official surveys or data collection on grouse, but the biologists in the field reported seeing high numbers, especially the hens and chicks. Read the article, not just the headlines.:neutral:


O **** Not another know it all

Really Biologist in the field


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## DallanC

gpskid said:


> I suppose I"ll be booted from this site, DWR runs this if any one of you noticed, they track your posts, they track and log your post , they block your comments, they hack into your computer, maybe I'll post all those DWR who watch , post on this site so everyone knows who the peeps r


Bull. This site was purchased by Vertical Scope, a Canadian group who own alot of outdoor and sports websites.

-DallanC


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## Iron Bear

I think it's cougar eating all the grouse. Im told they aren't eating our deer.


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## brendo

Congrats on a nice bull gps! The any bull hunts are tough.


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## jeff788

For what it's worth I've been out twice in central Utah and found a lot of young blue grouse--much more than I've found in this area the last two years. Unlike the other reports in this thread, the birds were up very high (9200'-9700') gorging themselves on elderberries and gooseberries. I didn't find any in the sage and aspen. Most of the coveys I've found had 4-7 birds, most appear to be young of the year, all of which were good sized.

I don't know why everyone is getting bent out of shape and pissed off at the DWR. They don't do formal surveys for grouse (or any other upland bird anymore, I think). They offer their best guess at the prospects and highlight that the seasons are opening. I think their primary objective is to encourage people to hunt these under-appreciated birds (and hares).


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## Caddis-n-Cutts

Originally Posted by gpskid 

"I suppose I"ll be booted from this site, DWR runs this if any one of you noticed, they track your posts, they track and log your post , they block your comments, they hack into your computer, maybe I'll post all those DWR who watch , post on this site so everyone knows who the peeps r"





Oh***** not another know it all!


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## Fowlmouth

gpskid do you still have a photo of Opie standing on a cliff with a pile of chukars? I believe there were other dogs in the photo too, including a black/white springer. I remember one of those photos winning the ksl snapshot of the week umpteen years ago. Anyway one of my favorite photos.8)


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## gpskid

jeff788 said:


> For what it's worth I've been out twice in central Utah and found a lot of young blue grouse--much more than I've found in this area the last two years. Unlike the other reports in this thread, the birds were up very high (9200'-9700') gorging themselves on elderberries and gooseberries. I didn't find any in the sage and aspen. Most of the coveys I've found had 4-7 birds, most appear to be young of the year, all of which were good sized.
> 
> I don't know why everyone is getting bent out of shape and pissed off at the DWR. They don't do formal surveys for grouse (or any other upland bird anymore, I think). They offer their best guess at the prospects and highlight that the seasons are opening. I think their primary objective is to encourage people to hunt these under-appreciated birds (and hares).


 Who's pissed?
I said I was disappointed in DWR forcast for the upland hunts, best in ten years is stretching it a bit, guess u know all and have been out there the last ten years so tell us. My observations cottontail looks good, sage grouse excellent, but forest grouse a little suspect, this may be only in the areas I've been hunting, for now its been poor compare to other years......My opinion only and 18-19 miles of hiking with 2-3 dogs last week.


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## gpskid

Fowlmouth said:


> gpskid do you still have a photo of Opie standing on a cliff with a pile of chukars? I believe there were other dogs in the photo too, including a black/white springer. I remember one of those photos winning the ksl snapshot of the week umpteen years ago. Anyway one of my favorite photos.8)


 Been awhile since I posted, not sure how to size this. Opie and I hunted grouse yesterday, 5 blues, 4 ruffs...today 4 ruffs but we are both moving a little slow in our age I only bagged one for my legend, he still made the retrieve with tears in my eyes


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## Kwalk3

That's an awesome picture!


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## Fowlmouth

It's tough watching the pups get old, especially when you have a good one.
They sure give us a lot of memories to reflect on though.


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## Mavis13

We've been up on the mountain 3 times and we've only seen two - but I don't have a dog so we have to spot them to shoot them. All in all I'd say it's the same as it's been for several years. I'd not say it's better or worse. I need to go with someone who's got a dog and see how much better it is. Might be time to find a good dog.


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## one4fishing

Never used a dog but took a 5 year old and a new 12 year old hunter with me today, so didn't do any serious pushing. We didn't see a bird in a canyon that most years I can limit out in.


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## one4fishing

But........
Most years I'm up there in October. If I didn't have my 5 year old today I'd have made it farther up the mountain. We didn't get past 8400 feet, but passed areas that have always produced a flush or two.


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## mrshmitty

I too saw this and was disappointed with the false reports because places I go to see grouse were not backing up the data the DWR was reporting. No the area wasn't hunted out, and no it wasn't just one location but 3. The best year I saw for grouse and other upland game was 2007/08 years.


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## DallanC

Saw more grouse today on the ML opener than I've seen in many years.


-DallanC


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## Kwalk3

There was never any data for grouse. Some are reading a lot more into an advertising piece by the DWR than they should be. The piece was an ad. piece meant to encourage people to buy a small game license and get out in the hills. 

The "data" were actually just anecdotal observations from DWR employees who very well could have seen more grouse than the last several years. From my observations through the archery hunt until now, I have seen a lot more birds in several places and substantially fewer in other areas that have held a lot in the past.


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## gpskid

Kwalk3 said:


> There was never any data for grouse. Some are reading a lot more into an advertising piece by the DWR than they should be. The piece was an ad. piece meant to encourage people to buy a small game license and get out in the hills.
> 
> The "data" were actually just anecdotal observations from DWR employees who very well could have seen more grouse than the last several years. From my observations through the archery hunt until now, I have seen a lot more birds in several places and substantially fewer in other areas that have held a lot in the past.


 Exactly, that's what started this post , I also have some beach front property for sale , maybe then the next post could be DWR scamming license holders to increase sales......SIS AH


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## gpskid

These guys are getting paid more than me & you , oppps ur one of them
http://www.utahsright.com/salaries.php?city=ut_dnr


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