# Expo



## Bowdacious

I go to the expo every year, drawn like a moth to the flame....and every year I walk out with the same feeling. However, every year the feeling gets stronger. I can't really classify it as "sad" but more as "violated"! 

Let me explain: every year I walk through the exhibits and booths and smile at the people that want to sell me the greatest and latest gadget that I just must have or my following season won't be successful. Every year I walk through and "oooh" and "aaaww" at the previous years harvests and the massive "score" given to each fine specimen. But then I stop and slow down...and I wonder, "when did it all change?" Why have we as hunters stopped being satisfied with the experience of the hunt?

Every year I feel as if the sport and activity that I love so much has even become more so a prostitute of society than the year before, pimped out to the highest bidder. All I see is the newest generation trying to "buy" their way into hunting's history books by purchasing the newest equipment or hiring the best guide to find a monster for them. Even the older generation is seen in pictures as 65-85 year old men are seen smiling over a 200"+ deer or 400"+ elk...the smile much dimmer than if it was a 140"+ buck or 260"+ bull that had been well earned by hard work, perseverance, and determination, the respect for the hunt having been lost long ago.

I love to hunt! I love everything about it. I love the peaceful moments of reflection that I get while sitting quietly on an elk wallow waiting for a chance to come face to face with such a magnificent animal. I love the reverence and sanctity that comes with what I do. I love the feeling of unity with nature and my maker that surrounds me as I am blessed with every opportunity that I am given to harvest an animal. I am humbled by my position in the food chain and the responsibility I have as such to care for the resources appropriately. I feel I am blessed and lucky to be able to experience the joy of a well earned harvest.

But, as I walk around the expo...I see none of that. All I see is the latest and greatest gear ready to be gulped up by the newest hunting recruits whose desire is fueled solely by promises of fame for killing monster bulls and bucks, no regard for how or if it's earned. There is very little, if any, talk of the skill or hard work and personal satisfaction that can be found in every hunt, regardless of score and gender. Those things can't be sold...they must be earned. These are things that come from spending countless hours and days and nights in the field accepting the challenge....learning the lessons of success the hard way. Reverence and respect for the experience of the hunt has been replaced by greed, arrogance, and competition. Enjoying and reveling in each others successes has been replaced by hubris and measuring tapes to determine who's is bigger! 

I do see both sides of the coin clearly. I understand the market for such things and the opportunity to make money off of the "trophy" aspect of hunting. I understand developing the best gear for pursuing our passions, and having such development come at a price. I even understand the desire for competition. However, every year I have to come back around full circle. I KNOW WHY I HUNT!


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## king eider

Good post! I have somewhat the same thoughts. It's as if "we have lost our way" IMHO. To focused on the size of it all. Rather than the many other things that come of it.

I'll put it this way. I have a friend who used to guide for brown bears in Alaska. He gave it up after he had a high dollar client who had to shoot the biggest bear in the state. My friend worked tirelessly to make it happen. After the guy harvested this bear my friend congratulated him on a magnificent animal. The client was in no mood to be happy or excited about it. He looked at my friend and said something to the effect of; we won't be happy till the skull dries and I found out how big he really is. That was the last guided big game trip my friend did. 

The hunting community is truly gone mad over this "size/status" etc. thing. Don't get me wrong, it fun to chase big animals, it's fun to be on the large game, but it seems to me that their is so much that we are now stepping over to get to the "size" of my animal. I primarily hunt waterfowl. What I love most is a mallard is a mallard. The trophy is truly in all most all the birds. It's not a size thing, but what is changing waterfowl is a little stupid piece of aluminum alloy. Sadly this "status" of whatever you want to call it has infected wing hunting as well.

Didn't even bother going into the expo (never have). Validated my tags and left.


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## Vanilla

Bowdacious,

I'm sorry you missed out on all those things at the expo. Because as I walked around I saw a crap ton of people with love and passion for the sport...and all those things you listed above. Aside from putting in a handful of lotto tickets, there were two things I wanted to do at the expo:

1- Hang out with some lifelong friends and finally swap elk hunting stories from this past season. 

2- See the Sportsman tag bull that was shot by the young lady with a broken pelvis. That story is still so absolutely incredible to me. In fact, it personifies everything that is right about hunting, IMO...and really just makes me feel good about the world to think about. 

I was able to do both. It was an awesomely successful day for me. Sure, there is always the new and shiny toys and the blow hards out and about. But if you couldn't look passed that to see the passion and love for the outdoors....I'd say that is kind of sad. 

I'm not a trophy hunter. I don't have all the fancy gear. (I would if I could afford it.) I love going to the expo. But I guess I go for very different reasons than some others.


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## goofy elk

100% agree Ts.....

I was COMPLETELY blown away by the HUGE crowd at the Expo yesterday..:!:..

I've never seen a group of hunters that large, together, supporting our sport.......

It was AWESOME .. Freinds and family, all ages, enjoying the event together..8)...


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## blackdog

****! That sucks I missed the expo again because I really love HUGE crowds.


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## Mtngoat690

All I'm going say about this is I sure wish that we could get this type of turnout on wildlife service projects. Can you imagine what we could do if we united this way and put some our money into buying winter range and restoring habitat instead of the latest and greatest gear and gadgets?


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## brendo

Here is my 2 cents. When did all the hate and judgement come into the hunting world? Why is it that someone looks at a person and if they have the latest and greatest they automatically assume they are not true hunters and all they care about is horns? Or if someone likes to look at big animals and score them that they are just trophy hunters? Or even if someone truly does trophy hunt why does it matter to you? most of them put a lot of time and effort into finding that trophy animal that will score well and they deserve it. Or if someone has the money to hire a guide and they enjoy to do it that way they are not true hunters. or someone that likes to ride the roads and shoot two points in their blue jeans they are not true hunters? Its BS!!!!!!!! Why cant we all enjoy the sport of hunting and come together as a group instead of judging one another for the way that they do it. Im sick and tired of hearing how your way is better than mine and judging people before you even know them.


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## Bowdacious

TS,

I also saw all the people supporting the sport...and loving the sport. I even saw some cool things, heard some cool stories, and talked to some cool people. The #1 reason I wanted to go was for the Colorado buck! Everything about that buck speaks to me. It's a great story! The Titus bull and his few friends were also impressive and are great stories. Sure the sport has supporters, no question about it but I feel as a majority the reverence for the sport has been lost....if you can't see that, THAT is what is sad!

I know of a guy that had a limited tag for bull elk. The entire hunt he was miserable because instead of seeing 400+ inch bulls he was seeing 380+ inch bulls. He wasn't enjoying the moment...he was truly miserable....and, he went home empty handed, madder than a hornets nest that he couldn't have killed the next "monster" that guys would remember and talk about for years to come. Unfortunately, in my book, he missed out on some great memories with friends of an awesome hunt. 

When did peoples hunts stop being validated because the score wasn't as impressive as the ones in the latest magazines? Even the Colorado buck the hunter was nervous that the "score" wouldn't live up to the hype. Why should he be nervous over such a thing? He killed a great animal, made some great memories....who gives 2 ****s what it scores! Do you know he took out an insurance policy on the antlers? Crazy that we put so much value on a set of horns that a guy has to take out an insurance policy as if they were made of gold. Thankfully an insurance policy is not required for his memories and pictures of the hunt in case he gets amnesia or Alzheimer's.

Would the expo get the same support if there were no guides to pimp out their services to the wealthy and well to do? If all we saw were guys with their "average" trophies and well told stories of the hunt would it have the same support? I say not. The value and sacredness of a mans hunt will forever be overshadowed by society with the "score" of said animal.


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## HuntinFoolUtah

I personally do not agree with everything SFW does, but I love the expo. It's great to see friends and just enjoy the experience. Wether someone is more excited about a 220" buck versus a 160" buck really shouldn't matter to you. Hunt how you want and let others hunt how they want.


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## Critter

How many of you walk out of the door going hunting and say that all you are going to shoot is a spike or a 2 pt? I know that there are a lot out there that is all you expect to bring home but doesn't the vast majority go out hunting with the idea in mind to bring home a 200 pt buck or when you head out on your LE elk hunt a 400 pt bull? 

I know that I do. 

As for the expo if you don't like what they represent then DON'T GO it is is that plain and simple.


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## Bowdacious

Simple minds...apparently y'all have missed the thought and meaning behind my post.


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## drsx

Bowdacious said:


> Simple minds...apparently y'all have missed the thought and meaning behind my post.


I see it a few ways. I agree that it shouldn't be focused 100% around the biggest animals and latest gadgets; however, anything out of the norm, e.g., big animals and new technology drive new excitement.

It's scientific fact that novelty creates attention, that's how our brains work, and more attention to hunting drives the sport, pursuit, or passion whatever you want to call it. So it's not all bad.

But, I will say I hunt for the challenge of hunting, period. Size of the animal is just a bonus


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## Mr Muleskinner

One thing that comes to my mind Bow is the fact that not everybody gets the same thing out of hunting. I remember my grandfather talking about the good ol' days and how hunters were changing and didn't appreciate it as much. I have little doubt that I and many of those that I have hunted with appreciate it every bit as much as he did, if not more. The people that go to the Expo do have a lot in common even though many are there for different reasons for people being there. The older I get the more I appreciate the opportunities that I have had. There was a point that I believed that my thoughts were more pure than the others or that I may appreciate it more than others. I don't think along those lines any more and I am glad that I don't. For me I found that it took away from my enjoyment of the here and now.


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## ridgetop

Hey Bow, there's another expo in Provo next weekend that might be more down your alley. I'm planning on checking it out.
http://www.thebigoutdoors.com/index.html


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## stillhunterman

Bowdacious said:


> Simple minds...apparently y'all have missed the thought and meaning behind my post.


I'm sure you're right to some extent, that many have missed the meaning behind your post. On the other hand, I'm sure a great many did/do understand what you are saying, so I wouldn't fret too much about it. Personally, your words could have flowed from my own fingers on this keyboard...

I agree with Mr. Muleskinner's thoughts, that hunting is, indeed, a very personal thing, and we all get something just a bit different out of it, for the most part. I also respect the different opinions expressed, it's a right we all share, but I certainly don't agree with many of them, and that's ok too.

I have no doubt many of the folks who attend the expo have a good time. I also think that many who attend probably don't give thoughts such as those you have expressed on this thread much reflection at all, and I don't much care for that, but it is what it is.

I tend to look at the 'forest' and not much at the 'trees' when contemplating philosophies and such, and that includes our hunting 'heritage'. When things arise that tend to create possibilities of harming that heritage, I get a bit defensive to protect it. The Expo, in and of itself, doesn't fit into that 'defensive' category, but the ideology behind it does. So, I don't attend, I don't participate in the tag drawings, and I don't have anything positive to say about it, because of the ideology I perceive it represents.

So Bow, keep on keepin' on with your thoughts and beliefs, and voice them when you feel like doing so; all the ears they fall upon certainly aren't deaf. One of the benefits I get from hunting, is that when I am in the field, rarely if at all do I think about all these 'negative' ideologies or attacks on that heritage. It's only when the whispering pines and the calls of the wild have been left behind that my mind once again faces certain realities I don't much care for...


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## berrysblaster

Bowdacious said:


> Simple minds...apparently y'all have missed the thought and meaning behind my post.


Morality is a personal thing, what one person thinks and feels to be right may not be another's. Same with ethics, simple minds have nothing to do with it individual morality has everything to do with it


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## Springville Shooter

Hunting is like Christmas......the commercialism only ruins it if you let it. I don't like some of the aspects of commercialized hunting these days but I also realize that the world doesn't revolve around me so I try to live and let live. I do chuckle at some of the antics......especially deer hunting as a team sport.-------SS


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## drsx

Springville Shooter said:


> Hunting is like Christmas......the commercialism only ruins it if you let it. I don't like some of the aspects of commercialized hunting these days but I also realize that the world doesn't revolve around me so I try to live and let live. I do chuckle at some of the antics......especially deer hunting as a team sport.-------SS


I don't know what you guys think of Cameron Hanes, but I love the guy's solo backcountry hunting message.


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## Bo0YaA

Ive never been to an expo, to me it just seems to be a "look how cool I am" contest. If every animal there was taken on public land by a DIY hunter I'm guessing I would have more interest. I have a hard time being impressed by animals taken on private property that a guy that pays 5-10k to hunt on and then pays a different guy 5-10k to a find it for him. IMO, there is no glory in that, its actually a little pathetic really.


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## Vanilla

Bow, I understand your message very clearly. I just don't agree with it. Hunting has not lost its sacredness to me just because I can enjoy an expo without getting distracted by the shiny toys. 

I spent the expo with one of my dad's best friends. His kids were all the same age as the kids in our family. His son my age has been my best friend since pre-school. We grew up hunting and fishing together. We roomed together in college. My friend, 3 of his brothers and his dad were my company at the expo. We spent 45 minutes or more at a table reminiscing about my dad (he died 5 years ago), how he took me deer hunting with him from the time I was 5 years old, and all I learned from my dad and his friend in the woods, and swapping stories from this year. Not to mention I probably missed more than half the booths and animals while laughing and having a good time. I would be willing to bet the tag I'm going to draw from the expo this year that there were far more people there like me there yesterday than those that you described. Seems like this is a personal problem you may need to work out. 

Just because YOU can't go to an expo like this and enjoy it for more than the biggest rack or the latest and greatest toy, doesn't mean the rest of us can't. Maybe you need to re-evaluate why you do what you do. Because I'm 100% comfortable with why I go into wild places to hunt and fish. If someone else wants to put a sticker on the back of their truck and deck themselves out in $4500 of camo and hunt with a $8000 gun, it won't Impact why I go into the woods at all. And it won't take away from my experience. Because my experience is mine. I don't do it for other people. Try it out. You may like it. 

Maybe we're not the "simple minds" after all?


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## martymcfly73

I hated all the flat brimmed hats. Who taught these guys how to wear a hat anyway?


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## Bo0YaA

TS30, Its not about the $4500 camo and $8000 gun (for me anyways). Its about the guys that spend 15-100k on the actual hunt and want to be put on some sort of sportsmans pedestal. As though in some way they are better than the rest of us because they killed a monster buck/bull. Again, IMO 0 glory and 0 respect should be given to the hunters that take trophies in that manner.


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## goofy elk

brendo said:


> Here is my 2 cents. When did all the hate and judgement come into the hunting world? Why is it that someone looks at a person and if they have the latest and greatest they automatically assume they are not true hunters and all they care about is horns? Or if someone likes to look at big animals and score them that they are just trophy hunters? Or even if someone truly does trophy hunt why does it matter to you? most of them put a lot of time and effort into finding that trophy animal that will score well and they deserve it. Or if someone has the money to hire a guide and they enjoy to do it that way they are not true hunters. or someone that likes to ride the roads and shoot two points in their blue jeans they are not true hunters? Its BS!!!!!!!! Why cant we all enjoy the sport of hunting and come together as a group instead of judging one another for the way that they do it. Im sick and tired of hearing how your way is better than mine and judging people before you even know them.


YES!---this^^^^^^^^^^


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## bamacpl

How many mullets did you see Marty?


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## Mr Muleskinner

Bo0YaA said:


> TS30, Its not about the $4500 camo and $8000 gun (for me anyways). Its about the guys that spend 15-100k on the actual hunt and want to be put on some sort of sportsmans pedestal. As though in some way they are better than the rest of us because they killed a monster buck/bull. Again, IMO 0 glory and 0 respect should be given to the hunters that take trophies in that manner.


There are a few those types but having met many of the people that purchase the tags, there are a lot of them that don't want any part of their names being mentioned or for people to find out who they are. Many of them are hunters that have had very successful business lives that live in an area like Atlanta or Boston that would never have a real opportunity to hunt some of these species otherwise. They come from all walks of life......well other than poor that is. I think quite a few of these people are stereotyped simply because they have money. I have not met them all but most people that that I have met are good at heart.

I don't hold anything against these people for having the money that they have or using it how they choose. I simply don't like the fact that tags are taken out of the draw to give them the chance to do it and that is in part my own selfishness.

How many of you would not hunt in Europe if you could afford it or go on a bird hunt in Argentina? How many would not hunt some sort of species in Africa or Australia or New Zealand?

If you had the money to hunt that stuff would it make you a bad person?

I honestly believe that a good portion of the people against this have nothing less than a real bad case of class envy.


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## Vanilla

Unfortunately I'll never have enough money to have a $15k-100k hunt be an option even if I wanted it. Kudos to those that have it, I guess. It takes all types to make up this world of ours. 

But don't paint with such a broad brush on animals/hunters at the expos. There was a 400 inch bull in a prominent booth that was entirely a DIY hunt on public land. I would guess there were lots of animals there that weren't on hunts that cost that kind of money. 

Full disclosure---My Pauns Buck hung in the Tines Up booth in 2013. My hunt cost me $20 for 4 applications at the expo and then $160-ish for the tag when I drew. It was not guided. I got some info about the unit from various sources, including this forum. I went and scouted twice by myself. My two brothers and I hunted without a guide. We set up a tent down there, killed my buck at 745 opening morning. Took it to a local taxidermist and they asked if they could display it and he's have it done by the expo for me. I didn't get paid for it. It didn't have a name plaque/tag identifying me as the hunter. In fact, only family and close friends even knew it was there. But it was a cool experience from drawing the tag all the way to seeing it the first time after the hunt hanging in the booth. You can think whatever you want about me or my hunt. Like I said, I do this for my own reasons, not to gain approval. I defy anyone to suggest that hunt wasn't a sacred experience, though. Yet its bookends revolved around the expo. Didn't cheapen my experience in the least.


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## Mr Muleskinner

TS30 said:


> Unfortunately I'll never have enough money to have a $15k-100k hunt be an option even if I wanted it. Kudos to those that have it, I guess. It takes all types to make up this world of ours.
> 
> But don't paint with such a broad brush on animals/hunters at the expos. There was a 400 inch bull in a prominent booth that was entirely a DIY hunt on public land. I would guess there were lots of animals there that weren't on hunts that cost that kind of money.
> 
> Full disclosure---My Pauns Buck hung in the Tines Up booth in 2013. My hunt cost me $20 for 4 applications at the expo and then $160-ish for the tag when I drew. If was not guided. I got some info about the unit from various sources, including this forum. I went and scouted twice by myself. My two brothers and I hunted without a guide. We set up a tent down there, killed my buck at 745 opening morning. Took it to a local taxidermist and they asked if they could display it and he's have it done by the expo for me. I didn't get paid for it. It didn't have a name plaque/tag identifying me as the hunter. In fact, only family and close friends even knew it was there. But it was a cool experience from drawing the tag all the way to seeing it the first time after the hunt hanging in the booth. You can think whatever you want about me or my hunt. Like I said, I do this for my own reasons, not to gain approval. I defy anyone to suggest that hunt wasn't a sacred experience, though. Yet its bookends revolved around the expo. Didn't cheapen my experience in the least.


How dare you


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## bowgy

I thought the pulled pork sandwiches were good!


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## martymcfly73

bamacpl said:


> How many mullets did you see Marty?


Too many. Those guys from the deep south (south of Nephi) don't know mullets went out in the 90's. I did see a Hybrid though. Some dude with a flat brimmed hat, mullet, and skinny jeans.


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## High Desert Elk

I can appreciate what Bowdacious posted as the start of this thread. I can also appreciate what everyone else has said in their posts as well (especially the flat brimmed hat thing). I went to the expo as well, I am from out of town (380 miles to be precise) but like going to things like this for what ever reason or another. What I think is cool is to see young families there and everyone sharing something in common - hunting and the outdoors (I had mine there and some of you may have witnessed the tired teary eyed look of my 6 year old in the late afternoon). I'm sure very few people go to these kinds of things oblivious to what they may see. 

Of course, this is how a lot of outfitters book hunts for their upcoming year(s). Vendors have the chance to show the latest and greatest, basically, a trade show. It gives us, the consumers, a chance to see first hand how things look, feel, and fit. I always thought it was a treat to go to a Cabela's to actually get to see how things looked and felt rather than just what it looks like in 2D in a magazine (it still is in a way since the closest one away is Grand Junction for me). 

I too am turned off a little about the bragging mindset, but that is my choice, some people are attracted to it and that is what drives them to hunt. I'm the type where if a big one presents itself, I will take a shot but am also not disappointed to come home with a small one either. Hunting today is a different crowd indeed, mostly because I think we have an easier life than those who lived 60 years ago. We have more free time to worry about shooting a big one rather than just filling the tag and going home. We also have more tools available. I don't think this is a bad thing, it has made us more successful hunters though (whatever that means).

Yep, hunting for whatever reason you do it is a personal choice and should never be governed by what someone else thinks about it or how you should do it.


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## brendo

Just got back from the expo had a great time! The highlight though had to be meeting Tim Burnett from solo hunter. Such a cool down to earth guy he sat and talked to me and my wife for ten or fifteen minutes and really had a cool outlook on life and hunting. I Just recently started watching solo hunter it's a great show!


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## elkfromabove

I'm continually amazed, but not amused, by these kinds of threads because they seldom, if ever, get to the bottom line. It's not ultimately about the money or the gadgets or the method or the entourage or the height of the fence or the shot distance or even the inches. It's the leverage that those things provide that is used to influence wildlife management policies via the governor, legislature, RAC's, Wildlife Board and public media. If these issues were left in the fields, mountains, and cafes we wouldn't see such animosity, but as it is there is seldom a wildlife meeting I go to where there is only one member for each group given his/her 5 minutes. If a speaker mentions he's from SFW, RMEF or MDF no matter how many other speakers have mentioned it, he/she usually gets 5 minutes as if the Iron chapter, the Beaver chapter, and the Sevier chapter are separate and different organizations. And it's seldom that SFW particularly fails to mention how much money they have spent on wildlife projects as if we didn't already know. And when it comes time for the vote, guess whose proposal carries the most weight, sometimes even at the expense of biology or finances or reason and nearly always at the expense of the 79% of Utah deer hunters who either do not now belong to a wildlife group (21%) or have never belonged to a wildlife group (58%) per the recent Deer Committee survey. Is it any wonder that there is some animosity toward this EXPO?


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## wileywapati

Bow, your original post is on the money. No pun intended. 
Problem is that enough people temporarily agree
With that philosophy that the purveyors of the philosophy
Always have a fresh crop of motivated recruits. 

Used to be a guy around here that posted a ton. A real 
PRO, one could say. We had a few healthy debates and came
To the realization that minds ain't getting changed by words. 

Eventually the stench of corruption, money, look at me moments
And special treatment for a chosen few becomes to much to wash off.


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## elkfromabove

brendo said:


> Here is my 2 cents. When did all the hate and judgement come into the hunting world? Why is it that someone looks at a person and if they have the latest and greatest they automatically assume they are not true hunters and all they care about is horns? Or if someone likes to look at big animals and score them that they are just trophy hunters? Or even if someone truly does trophy hunt why does it matter to you? most of them put a lot of time and effort into finding that trophy animal that will score well and they deserve it. Or if someone has the money to hire a guide and they enjoy to do it that way they are not true hunters. or someone that likes to ride the roads and shoot two points in their blue jeans they are not true hunters? Its BS!!!!!!!! Why cant we all enjoy the sport of hunting and come together as a group instead of judging one another for the way that they do it. Im sick and tired of hearing how your way is better than mine and judging people before you even know them.


 The answer to your question is rather simple IMHO. It started when the ends became more important than the means, when the destination became more important then the journey and, in this case, when the kill became more important than the hunt. And as that continues to happen and the outdoorsman who has hunting lower on his/her list of priorities gets pushed further and further away from the sport, the gap grows and my previous post explains what happens and how to avoid it. Keep your differences out of the boardrooms!


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## 30-06-hunter

I have never been to a single expo or outdoor show and am perfectly happy with the performance of my $350 rifle with $60 scope, $80 range finder, and $40 binoculars that allowed me to harvest 2 elk, and in the process I even made some friends that I intend to hunt with in the future. Too many folks get deep into debt to "hunt" when they buy all of the "latest and greatest" gear that really isn't any better than what they already had that was paid for. My wife actually trusts me when it comes to making a purchase and I do not buy things behind her back like I hear other guys doing sometimes, she knows that after much research and thought I will buy what is best and pay cash for it. This applies to everything I buy, not just outdoor gear.


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## manysteps

I avoid this particular expo like the plague... I *might* have gone had I known there was a 3D archery shoot there, but again, I might have still skipped it.

The reason is simple... The DWR doesn't get enough money back--or hours in the field--to compensate for all the tags they take right out of our pockets. (no, I don't put in for their lottery draws either)

If an expo wants to negotiate to BUY these tags from the state, and gamble on what they might get in return... I think I could support that... I don't support giving them away in "good faith" and "hoping" that our game will benefit down the road from the millions of dollars raised by this private enterprise.

You want to auction off a AI tag? Fine, give us $300k, and we'll give you a tag to auction... That's the way the state should be playing this game.


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## longbow

It's always worth it to go see the taxidermy display. I love it! Those guys are artists.


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## MuscleWhitefish

Well, 

I don't know if I can officially say I went to the expo. I validated my lottery and sat through the full curl society drawing, then left and went to a less populated Cabela's. 

I can definitely see Bow's side of things (money and sheep hunting would be my train of thought) and I can see the other side of things (Just having a good time with other hunters)

I think it can work out for everyone.


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## jliv07

Springville Shooter said:


> Hunting is like Christmas......the commercialism only ruins it if you let it. I don't like some of the aspects of commercialized hunting these days but I also realize that the world doesn't revolve around me so I try to live and let live. I do chuckle at some of the antics......especially deer hunting as a team sport.-------SS


I don't know if I properly "quoted" this, but I love this post. My thoughts exactly


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## Nambaster

longbow said:


> It's always worth it to go see the taxidermy display. I love it! Those guys are artists.


I went looking for the taxidermy display and I don't think that they did it this year. They said they had 150 new vendors this year. I wonder if that means that 150 of the past vendors did not renew? I know that Weatherby did not show up. I get the feeling that many of the past vendors have decided to participate with the "Big Outdoors Expo" rather than the "Western Hunting and Conservation"

If you went to the Banquet this year there were a lot of vacant seats and even vacant tables. Traffic was down from years past as well.


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## martymcfly73

Nambaster said:


> I went looking for the taxidermy display and I don't think that they did it this year. They said they had 150 new vendors this year. I wonder if that means that 150 of the past vendors did not renew? I know that Weatherby did not show up. I get the feeling that many of the past vendors have decided to participate with the "Big Outdoors Expo" rather than the "Western Hunting and Conservation"
> 
> If you went to the Banquet this year there were a lot of vacant seats and even vacant tables. Traffic was down from years past as well.


Not according to some people. "The biggest crowd I've ever seen." Bigger than ever.


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## Nambaster

martymcfly73 said:


> Not according to some people. "The biggest crowd I've ever seen." Bigger than ever.


In 2010 they had a line on Saturday just to get checked through the front doors. That line was so thick and big that you had walk around it just to validate your entry for the tags. In 2014 that line was reduced to just the small lobby. This year you could just walk right in and get a stamp regardless of when you showed up.

When it came to clean up on Saturday I know that many of the vendors were absolutely disappointed with the results of the expo and said they would for sure not be coming back.

60,000 people was the norm. IMO a lot of residents didn't really bother with the show. There seemed to be an over abundance of non-residents.

I have been to many expos in the past and made a lot of friends with a lot of vendors only to see that they never plan to go back.

I think it is a good show and I love looking at all of the antlers and laughing at all the inflated scores. Every dollar that I have in my pocket seems to want to break free and be passed around.

I get the feeling that the "Big Outdoors Show" is going to displace many of the WHCE attendants. I guess we will have to see when it starts next week.


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## wyoming2utah

I took 25 kids up to shoot in the NASP tournament on Saturday....I spent about 30 minutes in the Expo. I had to leave because of how nauseous it makes me feel. ON the one hand, I love the idea of introducing new archery hunters to the sport, but on the other hand I hate that these kids are being shown the ugly side of the sport! To me, the EXPO is all about the ugly side--money and big dollars equal big kills that give a hunter and his big ego big recognition.


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## bamacpl

martymcfly73 said:


> Too many. Those guys from the deep south (south of Nephi) don't know mullets went out in the 90's. I did see a Hybrid though. Some dude with a flat brimmed hat, mullet, and skinny jeans.


HAHAHhaha!!!! That there is priceless!!!!! Too funny!!!


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## robiland

All I did was meet a friend from Colorado to show him on maps where to hunt if he draws the same Wy tag i had last year and to shoot the archery shoot. That was all I did, and i was able to shoot the archery challenge with my oldest boy Fisher (10). He did awesome. It was a good day. Now to see if me or the wife drew a tag.


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## High Desert

Expo promoters sell dreams to those of us who suffer from cabin fever. I am not sure how many expensive hunts/fishing trips are actually sold at this expo compared to total attendance. There is no harm in dreaming of Alaska or Africa or the big old buck who always seems to slip away. 

Listed below are excerpts from _African Game Trails__─__An Account of the African Wanderings of an American Hunter-Naturalist_ by Theodore Roosevelt, first published in 1910.

There are to be found among most kinds of horn-bearing animals individuals with horns of wholly exceptional size, just as among all nations there are individuals of wholly exceptional height. But a comparison of these wholly exceptional horns, although it has a certain value, is, scientifically, much like a comparison of the giants of different nations. A good head is of course better than a poor one; and a special effort to secure an exceptional head is sportsmanlike and proper. But to let the desire for "record" heads, to the exclusion of all else, become a craze, is absurd. The making of such a collection is in itself not only proper but meritorious; all I object to is the loss of all sense of proportion in connection therewith.

We were on hunting grounds practically as good as any that have ever existed; but we did not kill a tenth, nor a hundredth part of what we might have killed had we been willing. The mere size of the bag indicates little as to a man's prowess as a hunter, and almost nothing as to the interest or value of his achievement.

As with most things in life, it is easy to believe that it is the other guy who has lost "all sense of proportion." TR, after all, shot a lot of animals on that nearly year long safari.


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## MWScott72

I thought the expo was OK. I don't have anything against those people that can plop down 320K for an AZ Strip tag except that it isn't me doing that....likely now or ever! Can you imagine all the stuff you could do IN ADDITION TO HUNTING if you had money like that? Like most, I don't care for the blowhards, but the good thing is that you can always just walk away or ignore them. That's what I do.

Two highlights of my attending Sat. We're getting to speak with Nate Simmons of Elk Hunter / Western Hunter Magazine (that guy is a class act and i think he truly"gets it") and watching my kids eyes light up in the youth area shooting the bows, pellet guns, and BB guns. They also love looking at all the animals...well, at least for the first 2 hours. I was unaware it shut down at 7pm and my boy was disappointed he didn't get to go back and shoot the bows again. Guess I need to get him one although that will be next year since I'm getting my kids a youth model Rossi with .22, .243, and 20 Ga barrels. My 9 year old daughter just passed hunters safety last Sat (insert beaming dad photo), and I can't wait to get her on spring turkeys here in UT and whitetails in OK. The bow will have to wait until next year.

Now if I could just draw one of those expo tags...that would be icing on the cake.


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## Vanilla

Nambaster, I was there Saturday morning and by the time I left the concourse to enter the show the line to buy exhibit hall tickets went all the way back to the stairs. 

Lines were much shorter when I left, but Saturday morning was pretty insane. I won't go back Saturday morning again.


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## DallanC

martymcfly73 said:


> Not according to some people. "The biggest crowd I've ever seen." Bigger than ever.


50,000 to 60,000? Sorry that's still small. The silly Comicon was still double that last year, right at 120,000. They capped this spring's "Con" at 50,000... and will run 2 more this summer and fall. If it stays popular you are talking 150,000 attendants + vendors per year.

So yea, 50k attendance give or take for a year ... hard to justify the expense for a vendor.

Anyone know what the big boat show attendance is? Or the other Outdoors expo they hold in the southtown center? I'd be curious how those compare.

-DallanC


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## High Desert Elk

I can understand how a vendor can get frustrated with the conditions of the expo, but at the same time, a lot of people still are not comfortable with dropping a few thousand on a hunt these days. I know I'm not regardless of what my employment status is.


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## massmanute

To quote our old friend Yogi, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."


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## goofy elk

martymcfly73 said:


> Not according to some people. "The biggest crowd I've ever seen." Bigger than ever.


Turns out it was the " biggest crowd ever " ...

New attentance record set for 2015.


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