# wearing orange`



## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

wearing orange during a LE/OIL hunt could out the window this year. should just make this change for all the hunts or make it an option.

here is the link
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5553129


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I think having the choice is a good thing, plus re-introducing darwinism into American society is a step in the right direction. :wink:


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## Moose Hollow (Apr 26, 2008)

Dumb law everyone should be in orange.

I had LE hunt on fishlake rifle tag last year there were grouse hunter running around in CAMO and people helping other LE hunters in CAMO but the only one that had to be in orange was the guy carring the gun.

The way the law should read is if there's a rifle hunt going on everyone should be wearing hunters orange including, Hunters, bike riders, ATV riders, hikers, Horse riders, and anyone that is going to be in the outdoors at the time of a hunts.

Everyone should want to be see in orange even the hunter so he's seen by other hunter's or just people in general during a rifle hunt.

Its in everyones best interest to wear orange why rifle hunts are going on.

We all know always be sure of are targets but accidents happen.

I think hunters orange help prevent even more accidents from taking place.

The warden was checking people and I told him that was one of the dumbest laws I had ever heard of and he agreed but it was the law.

Thanks for your post Sage.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

Thank's for posting that Sage!! That's the best new's I've seen in 09.

IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!!!


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Yeah, I just saw this story on KSL and was going to post it.
I hope you are right about it being good new goofy, but not so sure you are right.

I have always wondered about the hunter orange laws in this and some other states.
Orange camoflauge has more than the required sqare inches, but is illegal here. :?

Some states the HUNTER is required to wear orange, but not anybody else in, on, or around the hunt area. :? :?: :!: :roll: 
Seems like the guy with the gun is the _*least*_ likely to NEED Orange, so what the hell?

Now they want to take away the requirement for some of the hunts/areas, that will have low hunter numbers. I think that will open the door for some silly accident, "The numbers of other hunters here were so low, I was positive that it couldn't be another human, so I shot it." :roll: 
Sadly just being a OIL holder or getting lucky in a limited entry draw, does NOT guarantee intelligence or control.

I hope it turns out good.


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

Last year, I brought my son with me for an evening hunt on the opening day of the Northern general muzzleloader hunt. I wore camo, but I made him wear a blaze orange vest. He was 8 at the time.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

So are we sure LE/OIL license holders won't be idiots? I saw some of these people at the Hunt Expo and law or no law I'll be decked out in orange. 

The mysterious shooting of the young hunter in the Three Corners unit last fall is a good example of "was he mistaken for an animal". Does anyone know if he was wearing orange?

Dumb idea and the DWR should enforce the law including all those who pose for the trophy shot in camo. Not much orange in the Mossback posse.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

DD , The law in utah as it stand's NOW is ,, Once the animal is dead, the hunt is
over. NO ORANGE required from that second on......

Trouphy photo's without orange are completely legal as it stand's NOW!!


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Judging from my experiences hunting in Utah's public land required or not I'll wear the orange.

It's a bad idea to change that rule, and sadly, I probally get proven right at some point.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

This is GREAT NEWS!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I think it's fine. Let people have their agency.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

Correct me if I am wrong but the current law is if you are hunting in an area and there is a centerfire rifle hunt in progress you are required to where blaze orange.I will still wear orange but Nevada does not require hunters to where orange.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

goofy elk said:


> DD , The law in utah as it stand's NOW is ,, Once the animal is dead, the hunt is
> over. NO ORANGE required from that second on......
> 
> Trouphy photo's without orange are completely legal as it stand's NOW!!


Reg states orange while hunting any area where a centerfire season is in progress. The only exception noted is sheep and goat hunts. The Mossback posse is illegal.

The legislature personal liberty crusade on certain common sense issues such as seatbelts, kids in carseats, cell phones, driving ATV's on highways, etc, etc show they don't think. Sadly if this law passes somebody will get killed by some nimrod.

Years ago above Herriman a man was killed behind his house digging a trench while wearing a yellow jacket and most recently some kids killed someone in the Jordan Narrows they mistook for a large bird? Yeah it's best to wear orange and Mr Legislator should focus on the budget and important issues.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Dukes_Daddy said:


> [quote="goofy elk":2vgbcpwk]DD , The law in utah as it stand's NOW is ,, Once the animal is dead, the hunt is
> over. NO ORANGE required from that second on......
> 
> Trouphy photo's without orange are completely legal as it stand's NOW!!


Reg states orange while hunting any area where a centerfire season is in progress. The only exception noted is sheep and goat hunts. The Mossback posse is illegal. Once a hunter has KILLED he is no longer HUNTING, therefore a hunter who poses with an animal AFTER he has KILLED is not doing anything illegal.

The legislature personal liberty crusade on certain common sense issues such as seatbelts, kids in carseats, cell phones, driving ATV's on highways, etc, etc show they don't think. Sadly if this law passes somebody will get killed by some nimrod. Should we put everyone in a bubble? :roll: How does it make any sense to require the one carrying the gun to wear orange, but not anyone else? :?

Years ago above Herriman a man was killed behind his house digging a trench while wearing a yellow jacket and most recently some kids killed someone in the Jordan Narrows they mistook for a large bird? Yeah it's best to wear orange and Mr Legislator should focus on the budget and important issues. If you want to wear orange while on a LE hunt to '*FEEL*' safe, go for it. But, it makes little/NO sense to require the hunter to wear orange when on a hunt with 20 or less other hunters while not requiring the masses w/o a tag to wear orange.[/quote:2vgbcpwk]


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

orange does not stop people from being shot. I would rather see it as an option.


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> The way the law should read is if there's a rifle hunt going on everyone should be wearing hunters orange including, Hunters, bike riders, ATV riders, hikers, Horse riders, and anyone that is going to be in the outdoors at the time of a hunts.


Riiiiiight, I can see it now. REI selling blaze orange climbing gear and walking sticks... :lol:

Personally, I think it should be an option. Just like my stance on the helmet and seatbelt laws. I've always said there are WAY to many people on this planet anyway, why not weed out the stupid ones. Tree said it best, Darwinism. I think back on all the times in my life packing a gun and the only close calls I've witnessed had nothing to do with being seen and everything to do with common sense and gun safety. I'm not saying its not a good idea to wear orange, I just choose not to in most hunting situations. I would wear it however, if I was hunting quail with Pro and Dick Chaney. :shock:


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> wearing orange during a LE/OIL hunt could out the window this year. should just make this change for all the hunts or make it an option.
> 
> here is the link
> http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5553129


Stupid idea! It will invite more shooting accidents for sure. There are too many idiots toting guns that can't tell the difference between a bear and a human. I will ALWAYS wear hunter orange even if they do away with the law all the way.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Maybe we can make bullet proof vests that are strong enough to stop high-powered rifles and we will all be safe :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: OR we can all use our brains when out hunting and shoot only in safe directions and know what is behind the animal.

Orange does not protect people from getting shot. I did hear a rumor though that the DWR is thinking about having ML hunters wear orange.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> There are too many idiots toting guns that can't tell the difference between a bear and a human. I will ALWAYS wear hunter orange even if they do away with the law all the way.


Your silly little orange vest doesn't stop you from getting shot by these idiots.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> sagebrush said:
> 
> 
> > wearing orange during a LE/OIL hunt could out the window this year. should just make this change for all the hunts or make it an option.
> ...


There is little evidence to support such claims. Also, what about those just 'enjoying nature' during hunts, are they less 'valued' as humans since you aren't concerned about their safety? :roll:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> I'm not saying its not a good idea to wear orange, I just choose not to in most hunting situations. I would wear it however, if I was hunting quail with Pro and Dick Chaney. :shock:


Orange on you would give me a better spot to lock in on. :twisted:


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

I guess I just don't understand what was broke that required the legislature to revisit this law. If it ain't broke what is there to fix?

What was the problem?


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I am all for freedom of choice.I like the orange because it makes it a little easier to spot others.Perhaps if it is not required and knowing it is not required will cause people to be more aware of their surroundings thus making the hunts a little safer.As for me and mine we will continue to wear orange.I wear orange even when bird hunting because I think it makes me standout and reduces the chance of being shot at but thats my choice and those that choose not to wear orange should be free to make their choice also. The part that was broke is gov't injecting itself into matters of personal choice.


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

"allowing hunters a choice of what to wear could give them a better chance of making a kill." - from the article

Now that right there is sure funny. Most OIL and LTD hunts that currently require orange have success rates at or over 90%. Does anyone believe the last 10% will now be successful? haha, Politics at its best.

Judging by most of the videos I have seen and being in the field, I'd wager that close to 50% of ltd hunters do not wear orange. I personally think they should keep some form of the requirement. It makes it easier for other hunters to not hunt over the top of each other and it makes it easier for law enforcement to enforce the game laws. I don't buy the safety issue, but I do like Wyoming's "one article of clothing must be orange" requirement. We just wear an orange hat there.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

Hmmm...
"According to a 1995 survey supported by the IHEA, forty states in the U.S.A. and five provinces in Canada require hunters to wear Hunter Orange for big game hunting. All other states strongly encourage hunters to wear Hunter Orange. It should be noted, in those states requiring Hunter Orange, that the amount, specified in square inches, and the type of garment vary according to state regulations. Most states require a total of 400-500 square inches to be visible on the chest, back, and head. Sixteen states and three provinces specifically require "solid" Hunter Orange. The remaining states and provinces either allow or do not make specific reference to camouflage pattern Hunter Orange. Additionally, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin state laws require a camouflage orange pattern to consist of at least 50% Hunter Orange. Several studies have demonstrated that there is a lower proportion of hunting accidents among those hunters who wear Hunter Orange compared to those who do not wear Hunter Orange garments. In New York State from 1989 to 1995, of the 125 incidents in which hunters were mistaken for game, only six (5%) were wearing hunter orange. North Carolina laws requiring hunters to wear orange clothing have significantly reduced the number of deaths and injuries resulting from people being mistaken for game. "

Hunter orange saves lives...

....with that being said, legislation that deregulates the mandatory use of hunter orange is fine with me as long as lawmen, hunters, and legislators understand that they will undoubtedly increase the number of hunting accidents. Personally, I will always choose to wear hunter orange when centerfire rifle hunts are in progress.

http://www.ihea.com/hunter-education/hu ... ements.php


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

Stupid law.If you are hunting with a rilfe you need to wear orange and anybody with you. Sorry camo dont help you get any closer to the game amnd make it easyer to get your kill. If this passed watch out are death will go up because people shoot first then look later. DUMM LAW I HOPE IT DONT PASS.


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

If the law meant to better expose people to help eliminate shots fired in their direction, the law is a little ridiculous the way it is. In cases where a majority of people are only recreating (hiking, etc) in le areas during an le hunt, the person with the weapon is the only one required to be visible.

If the law is to really be effective then it should be expanded to included ANY and EVERY person in the hunting areas during that hunting season. I wear orange most of the time but if I am in a setup or stalking situation it may come off.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> lunkerhunter2 said:
> 
> 
> > sagebrush said:
> ...


You lost me. Where did i say that i am not concerned about "people enjoying nature"? I said it was a bad no to wear orange. I am sure there is plenty of evidence to support its use.


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

According to some of you, states like Id, Nv., and Az. where orange is not required, there should be people shooting each other all the time. Its just not happening. As a matter of fact, the only fatal hunting accidents I heard of last year only happened in states where orange is required. There may have been accidents in those non-orange states, I just didn't hear about them.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

blackdog said:


> According to some of you, states like Id, Nv., and Az. where orange is not required, there should be people shooting each other all the time. Its just not happening. As a matter of fact, the only fatal hunting accidents I heard of last year only happened in states where orange is required. There may have been accidents in those non-orange states, I just didn't hear about them.


Actually, there is a lot of evidence supporting the claim that hunter orange saves lives...I don't think anybody claims that not requiring hunter orange will suddenly result in "people shooting each other all the time". I think what people are saying, though, is that the number of hunting accidents or shooting-related accidents will be reduced if people wear hunter orange.

Even states like Idaho recognize this:
http://www.hunter-ed.com/id/id_info/wearing_orange.htm


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

I’m changing my stance on this issue; I want the orange requirement to totally be eliminated for all hunts statewide.

It could be part of the answer to reducing the long tag draw wait times with the reduction of hunters it will bring about. :twisted:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

I've seen enough "buck fever" to know that if there are rifle hunters around, I'm wearin' orange. And so is everyone around me. Everyone in my car wears seatbelts and everyone in my rifle hunting party wears hunter orange!


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

I am all for Darwinism, and the reduction in the amount of stupid people. The problem is that the hunter orange law does not reduce the number of stupid people, except by accident.

Quote: "In New York State from 1989 to 1995, of the 125 incidents in which hunters were mistaken for game, only six (5%) were wearing hunter orange." 

Let's assume that all 6 of those people died. They were wearing orange. Therefore the number of people intelligent/concerned enough to wear hunter orange went down by 6, but the number of people stupid enough to mistake a human for a game animal stayed the same. In this case 125.

Hunter orange will not eliminate stupidity from the people dumb enough to shoot at it.
I am not FOR hunter orange as much as I am FOR visibility. That way only the REALLY stupid and/or myopic idiots are a danger. Those who are dumb enough to shoot at something that is not clearly a game animal, just because it isn't wearing orange, will still be that stupid and therefore you are in danger from them any time you are not wearing orange.

Not to mention that when I walk up a draw and get into position to see the side of the mountain laid out before me, it is nice to be able to SEE the fifty other hunters that are scattered from hell to breakfast so I can move on to somewhere else, instead of waiting there all day for game that has long since left the area _due_ to the number of "hunters" on the mountain, that I would not necessarily be able to SEE dressed in camo or whatever.


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## sanpeteboy (Dec 26, 2007)

If people don't wear orange, I won't see as many of you. and won't have to complain about how many people i seen on the hunt. making me feel better about my hunting experience.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

stupid people aren't the ones getting shot.... they are the ones doing the shooting.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

torowy said:


> stupid people aren't the ones getting shot.... they are the ones doing the shooting.


Good observation!

I am confused as to why hunters feel they need to make others 'feel' safe because they prefer to wear orange. If wearing orange makes you 'feel' safer then wear orange. If any of you who support requirements on wearing orange are sincere about it you would be calling your state lawmakers demanding that ALL people in the hills during rifle seasons be required to wear orange. Otherwise you are being a bit inconsistent and nonsensical. I haven't worn orange in over 15 years and I spend 30+ days a year in the hills and have somehow managed to stay alive. Worry about your own self and let me worry about me. What a concept.  To say orange is 'needed' to make hunters safe during LE hunts is not using an ounce of reason/fact!


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> [To say orange is 'needed' to make hunters safe during LE hunts is not using an ounce of reason/fact!


Maybe...but saying that it doesn't help reduce accidents or make people safer is also not using an ounce of reason/facts!


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

I don't know if orange makes a person safer or not but It gives me a certain level of comfort knowing I standout from my surroundings when there are other folks on the mountain with high powered rifles.I do not think it should be a law.Pro is right if it is going to be a law then it should be applied to all people in the outdoors not just the ones with weapons.Pretty simple really from 1 Sept to 31 Jan require orange for everyone participating in outdoor recreation.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

......................NEW'S FLASH............NEW'S FLASH.......................

This is not a law saying you can't wear ORANGE,,,,,If you like it, and FEEL safe, wear IT.

Pro, I'm with ya 100% on this one,, I to am on LE and OIAL hunt every every year,,
Have done for many year's,, And many more to come. I've never worn orange while guiding.
It's absoultly silly the hunter's have to wear it.

Now general season stuff...well I haven't done that for year's, But if I did, I'd wear orange.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

goofy elk said:


> ......................NEW'S FLASH............NEW'S FLASH.......................
> 
> This is not a law saying you can't wear ORANGE,,,,,If you like it, and FEEL safe, wear IT.
> 
> ...


If you are refering to my post I think you need to read it a little closer.I don't think it should be a law but...........


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

They found a solution!!!! For the *perceived* overcrowding!

Less people in orange means the perception will be lower hunter numbers, Gimme back my statewide archery!!! :mrgreen:


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> They found a solution!!!! For the *perceived* overcrowding!
> 
> Less people in orange means the perception will be lower hunter numbers, Gimme back my statewide archery!!! :mrgreen:


Amen brother Tree!


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Chris Saunders, Vermont's Hunter Education Coordinator. "The hunters who wear it are just as likely to be successful, *yet nationwide data shows they are seven times less likely to be shot by another hunter*."

The legislature needs to quit wasting time on things that are not broke. Name one good reason that this is even being addressed.


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

No, was'nt refering to you Luv2fish. I'm aiming at the whole thing in general.

Just say'in,,For the guy's that like orange wear it, heck, paint your face like a pumkin..
Get some orange pant's, shoe's....The work's .....I don't care and good on ya.

But there should be a choice, Guy's hunting CMWU's having to wear orange??
Hunter's on LE Oak creek deer,,Orange ? ,, Hunter"s on Henry Mnt Bison,, Orange?
Hunter's on Lone peak,, Rocky mnt goat,, orange? ,, Hunter's on SW Desert elk,, Orange?

NOT,,NOT,,and NOT!!....................It's freak'in the stupidest law ever,, 

It's about time they changed it..


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

We are in complete agreement sir!


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## royta (Sep 26, 2007)

Artoxx said:


> Not to mention that when I walk up a draw and get into position to see the side of the mountain laid out before me, it is nice to be able to SEE the fifty other hunters that are scattered from hell to breakfast so I can move on to somewhere else, instead of waiting there all day for game that has long since left the area _due_ to the number of "hunters" on the mountain, that I would not necessarily be able to SEE dressed in camo or whatever.


I love it. You've got the best argument right there.

Although, I agree that the required orange law is lame. Especially for the OIL hunts and such.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> Dukes_Daddy said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="goofy elk":no36irdd]DD , The law in utah as it stand's NOW is ,, Once the animal is dead, the hunt is
> ...


[/quote:no36irdd]

LOL


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

To those opposed to the current law, why would you _not_ want to wear orange? :?:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> To those opposed to the current law, why would you _not_ want to wear orange? :?:


Why would I want to look like a pumpkin? Why would I want to draw attention to myself and where I am at? Why would I want the government telling me everything little thing to do?

Sorry, I know it is kinda rude to answer a question with questions, but I HATE being told what to do 'for my own good' by people who could care less about my safety. Just as I STRONGLY oppose seat belt laws for ADULTS.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> elkfromabove said:
> 
> 
> > To those opposed to the current law, why would you _not_ want to wear orange?
> ...


 OK, who are you? And what have you done with my friend PRO?



> and where I am at?


We already know where you are at! On the far right, of everything!



> Why would I want the government telling me everything little thing to do?


LITTLE? Accidentally shooting someone or getting shot, isn't a "little thing".



> Sorry, I know it is kinda rude to answer a question with questions, but I HATE being told what to do 'for my own good' by people who could care less about my safety.


The key phrase being, "I HATE being told what to do". And what makes you think those telling you could care less about your safety? Do your kids also think this about you when you tell them not to do drugs, premarital sex, etc.?.



> Just as I STRONGLY oppose seat belt laws for ADULTS.


[/quote:3lao3o3w]
If you're alone in the vehicle in a one vehicle accident, then have at it, but an unbuckled ADULT, even at 30 miles per hour makes one hellava projectile. Besides, I don't wanna hafta go to another friend's funeral or even visit him in the hospital, or see him in a wheelchair the rest of his life!

Please don't foolishly rebel at all government imposed rules/laws simply because you don't like them telling you every little thing to do. Even you have told us rules and laws are a necessary part of liberty. That's the view from here!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> What do you have against pumpkins? You don't like pumpkin pies? You don't mind looking like a tree, grass, sagebrush, bushes, cattails, etc., why not a pumpkin?Pumpkins are a veggie, I hate ALL veggies.
> 
> OK, who are you? And what have you done with my friend PRO? :mrgreen:
> 
> ...


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

Exactly Pro

There are circumstances that do not fit into the nice, neat little set of rules and guidlines from the government. For years we were told to "give hijackers what they want" (we should have always been told to kick their butt); Then the next thing you know there is a little thing called a "box cutter" that becomes the most "feared" item in aviation history, so they ban all boxcutters from being allowed on a plane; "bad boxcutter" - again, should have always been told to kick their butt - box cutter or not. then fingernail clippers, etc. Car keys are more dangerous than nail clippers IMO

Just because it has made it to law does not mean it makes good sense. Wearing orange may be common sense in many cases, but should not be a law, in my opinion. On top of that, I am colorblind and orange is harder to see for me than white, blue, or many other colors...Why Orange???


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> elkfromabove said:
> 
> 
> > What do you have against pumpkins? You don't like pumpkin pies? You don't mind looking like a tree, grass, sagebrush, bushes, cattails, etc., why not a pumpkin?Pumpkins are a veggie, I hate ALL veggies.
> ...


"LITTLE? Accidentally shooting someone or getting shot, isn't a "little thing". I've been tracking around the back country my whole life, and I haven't worn anything orange in 15+ years. Yet I am still here. "
You must be very lucky, your a risk taker i see?
And why can't you reply to my question? Did i back you in a corner or something?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

What is your question? Corner, you're funny.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> elkfromabove said:
> 
> 
> > To those opposed to the current law, why would you _not_ want to wear orange? :?:
> ...


Would you prefer pink?


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Huntoholic said:


> I guess I just don't understand what was broke that required the legislature to revisit this law. If it ain't broke what is there to fix?
> 
> What was the problem?


Since nobody has answered this question, And since all of the information I've read indicates that hunter orange can save lives, And since I've seen people do crazy things when they get buck fever, And since I know that ungulates can't see it so it doesn't diminish my success, And since it's just as comfortable and costs the same (or cheaper) as camo or any other color, I'll politely bow out of this conversation by saying, You others may do as you wish, but as for me and my house, we will wear hunter orange while a centerfire rifle hunt is taking place in our area, law or no law.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

elkfromabove said:


> Huntoholic said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I just don't understand what was broke that required the legislature to revisit this law. If it ain't broke what is there to fix?
> ...


There, you see it wasn't so hard to admit having such a law is silly. I don't like orange, and I don't like pink. My point isn't about the color, it is about big brother telling me what to do in every facet of my life. Wear what you want, when/where you want, just don't tell me what to wear when I enter the woods. What a concept, let ADULTS make their own decisions on how safe they wish to 'feel'.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> it is about big brother telling me what to do in every facet of my life. Wear what you want, when/where you want, just don't tell me what to wear when I enter the woods. What a concept, let ADULTS make their own decisions on how safe they wish to 'feel'.


I guess then that big brother shouldn't tell us to travel at certain speeds, to obey certain traffic laws (like lights and stop signs), or obey any safety law then... :roll:

That's ridiculous...hunter orange laws aren't about making people "feel" safe. They are about making people safer. Numerous studies, numerous law changes, and numerous states have undeniably shown that wearing hunter orange saves lives just like traffic laws undoubtedly save lives....


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> elkfromabove said:
> 
> 
> > Huntoholic said:
> ...


One more comment from the wings as I exit stage left (or is it right?). I didn't admit it was silly. It's not. And I certainly don't want me or mine to be responsible for a shooting death or injury because we didn't see you in the background, but, IMHO, it's not an issue that requires a heated discussion or a breakup of friendships. I still love you! (In the platonic friendship way, of course. )


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> My point isn't about the color, it is about big brother telling me what to do in every facet of my life. Wear what you want, when/where you want, just don't tell me what to wear when I enter the woods. What a concept, let ADULTS make their own decisions on how safe they wish to 'feel'.


Now Pro I could care less what you or any one else wears. But to say you will not wear it becuse the goverment says you have to is silly. That just does not make any sense.That just seams a little extreme even for you.So what other rules will you not fallow becuse big brother says you have to. Do not get me wrong I do not like people telling me what I can and can not do any more then you, but there are many people that have to have someone tell them just that.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

If the statistic is correct, and it is seven times more likely that you could get shot not wearing hunter orange, I think its perfectly fine for those who make that choice not to wear it. I couldn't stop someone from getting hit out of the crosswalk jaywalking, I'm OK with those who roll the dice out on the mountain. I can think of a couple of people on this website that should, without any doubt, have the right not to wear their hunter orange and suggest that they also spend a great deal of their time on the mountain ducking in and around the oak brush, as well as dead trees and downfall.


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> What is your question? Corner, you're funny.


Re: wearing orange`

Postby lunkerhunter2 on Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:50 am

proutdoors wrote:

lunkerhunter2 wrote:

sagebrush wrote:wearing orange during a LE/OIL hunt could out the window this year. should just make this change for all the hunts or make it an option.

here is the link
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5553129

I SAID:
Stupid idea! It will invite more shooting accidents for sure. There are too many idiots toting guns that can't tell the difference between a bear and a human. I will ALWAYS wear hunter orange even if they do away with the law all the way.

YOU SAID:
There is little evidence to support such claims. Also, what about those just 'enjoying nature' during hunts, are they less 'valued' as humans since you aren't concerned about their safety? :roll:

I ANSWERED:
You lost me. Where did i say that i am not concerned about "people enjoying nature"? I said it was a bad no to wear orange. I am sure there is plenty of evidence to support its use.

This what i am talking about. :wink:


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## MN transplant (Jan 4, 2009)

I dont want the GOV telling me how safe to be, I should be able to chose if I wear orange or not. lets do away with the speed limit too. stupid gov trying to control my driving. and those darn traffic lights too.....it's MY choice. :wink: 

DISCLAIMER: 
orange is good
speed limits and traffic lights are good
government is good......it's the size and the politicians that are suspect


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## Wes (Jan 3, 2008)

Some where back on the first couple of pages someone wrote that it should be a personal choice to wear hunter orange. I agree 100%. I don't like the government sticking their nose in my business while pretending to be concerned about my welfare. We all know that these type of laws are made to pad the accounts of the governing agency's and not really out of concern for us, but that's for another argument. Wearing a helmet should be a personal choice. Wearing a seat belt should be a personal choice. Wearing hunter orange should be a PERSONAL CHOICE. Even though I don't think it's the governments job to regulate my personal safety I will wear ALL three because I want to tip the odds of living in my favor. I'm not sure why some people are against wearing orange. What do you want to wear? Most will say that want to be able to wear full camo . That's fine but what's the real purpose of camouflage? To look cool to your fellow hunters and in pictures. Just like fishing lures are made to catch fishermen, camo is made to catch hunters. It may help a little during archery season but for the rifle hunter camouflage clothing is a waste of money. Hell we're using weapons capable of shooting extreme distances. If a hunter can't "sneak" within a couple hundred yards without being seen camo's not gonna help. I have yet to see any camo pattern that didn't turn into a dark blob at a hundred yards. I've been hunting for 40 years and guiding for 12 and most of the animals that I've been involved in killing didn't know what the hell I was wearing and the one's that did, well is was usually too late. Most of the time it's Wranglers and some other unnatural looking clothing. There's too many folks out there too desperate to kill something that will shoot first then check out their target for me to take a chance, so I'll keep on wearing orange and hope some hunter that needs to hear his gun go boom doesn't mistake me for an orange critter.
Wes


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > What is your question? Corner, you're funny.
> ...


Holy Hanna, give this ADHD 'pro' a readers digest version already! :wink:

My point is that you 'feel' wearing orange reduces ones odds of getting shot during rifle season, but you are NOT clamoring for ALL civilians to wear orange in the hills, but ONLY the ones will a weapon. My question is: where is your concern for the rest of us? Thus my point about this being a SILLY/inane law.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> Now Pro I could care less what you or any one else wears. But to say you will not wear it becuse the goverment says you have to is silly. That just does not make any sense.That just seams a little extreme even for you.So what other rules will you not fallow becuse big brother says you have to. Do not get me wrong I do not like people telling me what I can and can not do any more then you, but there are many people that have to have someone tell them just that.


No, I do not wear orange because I think it makes no sense to do so. If I am that **** scared to be among people carrying rifles I will stay home during the rifle seasons! I make choices based on what *I* deem prudent, not on what some pin heads up on capital hill 'feel' is in my best interest. The government has NO business telling me what color of clothing to wear while on PUBLIC land!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

MN transplant said:


> I dont want the GOV telling me how safe to be, I should be able to chose if I wear orange or not. lets do away with the speed limit too. stupid gov trying to control my driving. and those darn traffic lights too.....it's MY choice. :wink:
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> orange is good, Me wearing/not wearing orange does NOT put others in danger.
> ...


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

fatbass said:


> This "Magic Hunter Orange" that all the nanny staters speak of must be some powerful stuff! Sounds like it's better than Kevlar. _(O)_
> 
> I often hear car crash survivors say, "I didn't see the car" just before a crash. We should require ALL vehicles be painted "Magic Hunter Orange". That should make you about 7 times less likely to be in a crash. :wink:


Touche!!


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## lunkerhunter2 (Nov 3, 2007)

My point is that you 'feel' wearing orange reduces ones odds of getting shot during rifle season, but you are NOT clamoring for ALL civilians to wear orange in the hills, but ONLY the ones will a weapon. My question is: where is your concern for the rest of us? Thus my point about this being a SILLY/inane law.[/quote]
Ok, you aren't going to answer the question. I don't know how in the hell you get what you get out of someones replies. Nevermind Pro, i am out.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

lunkerhunter2 said:


> Ok, you aren't going to answer the question. I don't know how in the hell you get what you get out of someones replies. Nevermind Pro, i am out.


I truly want to answer your question(s), and I honestly thought I did.  I may be a little slower than usual today, so please spell it out in a way a 3rd grader can understand what you are asking. Then I may catch on. I am being as sincere as I know how to be. -)O(-


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

Wes said:


> Some where back on the first couple of pages someone wrote that it should be a personal choice to wear hunter orange. I agree 100%. I don't like the government sticking their nose in my business while pretending to be concerned about my welfare. We all know that these type of laws are made to pad the accounts of the governing agency's and not really out of concern for us, but that's for another argument. Wearing a helmet should be a personal choice. Wearing a seat belt should be a personal choice. Wearing hunter orange should be a PERSONAL CHOICE. Even though I don't think it's the governments job to regulate my personal safety I will wear ALL three because I want to tip the odds of living in my favor. I'm not sure why some people are against wearing orange. What do you want to wear? Most will say that want to be able to wear full camo . That's fine but what's the real purpose of camouflage? To look cool to your fellow hunters and in pictures. Just like fishing lures are made to catch fishermen, camo is made to catch hunters. It may help a little during archery season but for the rifle hunter camouflage clothing is a waste of money. Hell we're using weapons capable of shooting extreme distances. If a hunter can't "sneak" within a couple hundred yards without being seen camo's not gonna help. I have yet to see any camo pattern that didn't turn into a dark blob at a hundred yards. I've been hunting for 40 years and guiding for 12 and most of the animals that I've been involved in killing didn't know what the hell I was wearing and the one's that did, well is was usually too late. Most of the time it's Wranglers and some other unnatural looking clothing. There's too many folks out there too desperate to kill something that will shoot first then check out their target for me to take a chance, so I'll keep on wearing orange and hope some hunter that needs to hear his gun go boom doesn't mistake me for an orange critter.
> Wes


Wes, I just wanted to point out that it is expensive when people die or get seriously injured. In all reality seatbelt laws are to keep state costs down rather than save people. If we got rid off all these types of laws, taxes would have to go up to pay for higher cost to society.


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## luv2fsh&hnt (Sep 22, 2007)

What Pro is saying is only people actively hunting are required to wear orange in other words the people that have guns in there hands. There are many other people in the woods during the hunts and they are not required to wear orange and this is what makes the law inane.

Lunkerhunter is saying he thinks not wearing orange is a bad idea because of people that can't tell the difference between a bear and another person and is sure there is evidence that orange saves lives.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

torowy said:


> Wes, I just wanted to point out that it is expensive when people die or get seriously injured. In all reality seatbelt laws are to keep state costs down rather than save people. If we got rid off all these types of laws, taxes would have to go up to pay for higher cost to society.


That is how it is sold to the masses, but I believe if you added up the increased costs to have the government regulate/monitor/enforce MOST of these type of laws, the savings to the tax payer is minimal at best. All at a lost individual liberty. The costs outweigh the benefits by far, as how do you put a price tag on individual liberties? :?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

luv2fsh&hnt said:


> What Pro is saying is only people actively hunting are required to wear orange in other words the people that have guns in there hands. There are many other people in the woods during the hunts and they are not required to wear orange and this is what makes the law inane.
> 
> Lunkerhunter is saying he thinks not wearing orange is a bad idea because of people that can't tell the difference between a bear and another person and is sure there is evidence that orange saves lives.


You are correct my wise friend. 8)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Uh-oh fatbass, you said the "s" word. Last time I did that I had a near riot on my hands. But, you are 100% correct on the subject at hand. As I said; how do you put a price tag on liberty?


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## goofy elk (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm all for liberty,,,,,,,,,I say burn the orange and the seat belt's!!


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

That is EXACTLY the attitude that is killing American liberty whether you believe it or not. By your reasoning, anything more dangerous than sitting on the couch should be controlled by the government. You're wrong. A REAL life entails taking risks and learning by failing. A life controlled by anyone other than self is a slave's life.


Whoa, calm down. You are stretching what I said quite a bit. All I said is that having people die is more expensive than only having them injured. Pro, I disagree, it is defiantly not "sold" as a tax cut. It is sold as a life saver. Now, hunter fatalities and car accidents are pretty different, I was just using that to illustrate a point and explain the real reason for laws like that. I more responding to that single post than the overall topic. I am in favor of deregulating wearing orange on low pressure hunts.

There is a cost/benefit relation that has to be looked at from a distance. Am I going to accidentally shoot someone in the mountains, or kill someone in a car crash. Probably not, but it does happen. I would definitely say on a general rifle hunt the costs out way the benefits to let everyone wear camo. It doesn't cost any more for a warden who is already in the field to enforce an orange law. But when someone does get injured in a way that could have probably been prevented. You are looking many peoples time and resources to get them out. And who pays for that? You and I do.... I tell you that I think I already pay for other people enough out of my meager paycheck. Thats why it is better wound a enemy soldier rather than kill him. It takes 2 guys to haul him off... etc.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

Hey Wes!!!! amen brother!!!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

torowy said:


> Pro, I disagree, it is defiantly not "sold" as a tax cut. It is sold as a life saver. Now, hunter fatalities and car accidents are pretty different, I was just using that to illustrate a point and explain the real reason for laws like that. I more responding to that single post than the overall topic. I am in favor of deregulating wearing orange on low pressure hunts. Where do YOU draw the line? Is it 400 sq in, or head to toe? Is it bubble wrap to enter the city limits? Is it taking away firearms for 'our own safety'? Do we have bright strobe lights on all vehicles on public roads?
> 
> There is a cost/benefit relation that has to be looked at from a distance. Am I going to accidentally shoot someone in the mountains, or kill someone in a car crash. Probably not, but it does happen. I would definitely say on a general rifle hunt the costs out way the benefits to let everyone wear camo. It doesn't cost any more for a warden who is already in the field to enforce an orange law. But when someone does get injured in a way that could have probably been prevented. You are looking many peoples time and resources to get them out. And who pays for that? You and I do.... I tell you that I think I already pay for other people enough out of my meager paycheck. Thats why it is better wound a enemy soldier rather than kill him. It takes 2 guys to haul him off... etc. See above.


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## torowy (Jun 19, 2008)

proutdoors said:


> torowy said:
> 
> 
> > Pro, I disagree, it is defiantly not "sold" as a tax cut. It is sold as a life saver. Now, hunter fatalities and car accidents are pretty different, I was just using that to illustrate a point and explain the real reason for laws like that. I more responding to that single post than the overall topic. I am in favor of deregulating wearing orange on low pressure hunts. Where do YOU draw the line? Is it 400 sq in, or head to toe? Is it bubble wrap to enter the city limits? Is it taking away firearms for 'our own safety'? Do we have bright strobe lights on all vehicles on public roads?
> ...


I'm not sure if you understood what I wrote. I said I agree with removing the orange requirement on low pressure hunts... example LE and OIL. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my previous post. I never claimed to know where the perfect line was either. I just know there are a lot of people who don't act responsibly. I think less government regulation would be great, as long as my bill goes down with it.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

WOW I am just blow away at the people that feel that they will not fallow laws because they feel that the laws do not make sense. Sorry the government is here to stay for good or bad right or wrong. They will write laws you do not agree with all the time. That does not give you the RIGHT to brake the rules because you feel they are taking YOUR liberties away. Laws are made for reason even if it is dumb ones. Sometime the biggest mistakes are made with the best of intentions. You are given your liberty because of the laws. It is when people do not fallow the laws even bad laws that liberty has to be taken away. It pisses me off when people feel there rights are so much better then the right of others. Why should one person fallow a bad law but yet another person feels that it is there right not to fallow a law. Like I said to me this is not about the orange but about people feeling they are above the law.


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> WOW I am just blow away at the people that feel that they will not fallow laws because they feel that the laws do not make sense. Sorry the government is here to stay for good or bad right or wrong. They will write laws you do not agree with all the time. That does not give you the RIGHT to brake the rules because you feel they are taking YOUR liberties away. Laws are made for reason even if it is dumb ones. Sometime the biggest mistakes are made with the best of intentions. You are given your liberty because of the laws. It is when people do not fallow the laws even bad laws that liberty has to be taken away. It **** me off when people feel there rights are so much better then the right of others. Why should one person fallow a bad law but yet another person feels that it is there right not to fallow a law. Like I said to me this is not about the orange but about people feeling they are above the law.


I think the main topic of this discussion is regarding changes to the law that makes more sense, and not leave a rediculous law on the books. Dumb laws should be corrected/fixed, but until then they should be followed. The severity of breaking the law is even another matter and should be considered. I will wear my orange most of the time but it is not that big of deal to have it off once in a while, IMO. 56 mph in a 55?? There is a remote chance that someone could be involved in an accident because they were breaking the law, but what are the chances?? They even revise speed limit laws when it makes more sense....did those arguing for the orange law complain about those changes too???


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> I think the main topic of this discussion is regarding changes to the law that makes more sense, and not leave a rediculous law on the books. Dumb laws should be corrected/fixed, but until then they should be followed.


I agree 100%. I also think the orange law is dumb, but it is the law and should be fallowed.


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

Wow, I am surprised this thread has gone this far. Great argument both for and against the "Orange Requirement". I rarely rifle hunt anymore, but when I have, I never felt orange hindered my success. I appreciated orange for a number of reasons. One, you know if and where others are in your area and can avoid it where as if they are in camo, you would be unaware. Same goes for me, if I am on a ridge in orange, hunters are less likely to approach me since they know where I am. Archery and even muzzy hunts it isn't as much of a concern because of the limited effective range of the weapon, but rifle hunts are a different animal. Another reason I like the orange requirement for rifle hunts is someone will see you on the opposite side of the canyon and MAY hesitate to send a bunch of lead your direction. Consider the number of tags on GS hunts. Most every hillside resembles a pumpkin patch. Even if you aren't being shot at directly, a bullet hitting close to your location is enough to send the pucker factor to 10. LE and OIL are different because of the low numbers on the hunt, but once again, what is camo going to do for you besides make you look cool when you can easily harvest your prey at 300+ yards. :? Where orange until the kill then shed it for the pics. What is the big problem???


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

weatherby25 said:


> > I think the main topic of this discussion is regarding changes to the law that makes more sense, and not leave a rediculous law on the books. Dumb laws should be corrected/fixed, but until then they should be followed.
> 
> 
> I agree 100%. I also think the orange law is dumb, but it is the law and should be fallowed.


If people stay silent and obey 'every' law, which I am sure you do NOT do, then those who make laws are given a blank check to add more silly/DUMB laws. :? Being sheeple does NOT make us free, questioning bad laws, especially ones that infringe on individual liberty is what will keep us 'free'. Blind obedience is NOT what a free people does.

FWIW, I haven't had a tag during a centerfire season for 15+ years, the same number of years I have not worn orange. Yet, I am in the hills W/O a tag every fall, so my not wearing orange under the DUMB law in place is 100% LEGAL!!!

If you can say you NEVER speed, NEVER drive w/o a seatbelt on, ALWAYS come to a complete stop, and NEVER misspell words, I will say you have grounds to get "pissed" at others who don't ALWAYS "fallow" EVERY law. If not, you may want to tone down your 'outrage'. _(O)_


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

Flyfishn247 said:


> Wow, I am surprised this thread has gone this far. Great argument both for and against the "Orange Requirement". I rarely rifle hunt anymore, but when I have, I never felt orange hindered my success. I appreciated orange for a number of reasons. One, you know if and where others are in your area and can avoid it where as if they are in camo, you would be unaware. Same goes for me, if I am on a ridge in orange, hunters are less likely to approach me since they know where I am. Archery and even muzzy hunts it isn't as much of a concern because of the limited effective range of the weapon, but rifle hunts are a different animal. Another reason I like the orange requirement for rifle hunts is someone will see you on the opposite side of the canyon and MAY hesitate to send a bunch of lead your direction. Consider the number of tags on GS hunts. Most every hillside resembles a pumpkin patch. Even if you aren't being shot at directly, a bullet hitting close to your location is enough to send the pucker factor to 10. LE and OIL are different because of the low numbers on the hunt, but once again, what is camo going to do for you besides make you look cool when you can easily harvest your prey at 300+ yards. :? Where orange until the kill then shed it for the pics. What is the big problem???


That depends on the type of country you hunt, the methods in which you hunt, etc. I hunt in thick and dark stuff so much that the same concealment benefits of cammo apply the same as it does on archery hunts. Also, choice of clothing is a little more limiting, when you layer/unlayer you have to readjust sometimes wasting valuable seconds, make additional noise, etc. Those are just a couple reasons/situations why the orange comes off for me.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

> If people stay silent and obey 'every' law, which I am sure you do NOT do, then those who make laws are given a blank check to add more silly/DUMB laws. Being sheeple does NOT make us free, questioning bad laws, especially ones that infringe on individual liberty is what will keep us 'free'. Blind obedience is NOT what a free people does.


Who said anything about being silent? Feel free to protest and question all you want. That does not mean you still do not have to follow the laws as written. You can call it being sheep or not being free all you want. Freedom is not free. Freedom means you have to make a choice and are allowed to do so. You can or can not make the choice to put the orange on, but you are also making the choice to pay the price for that choice. Are you also not a sheep following the lead of others who will not follow the law. Is that not also bilnd obedience. Most laws are created out of a need.



> FWIW, I haven't had a tag during a centerfire season for 15+ years, the same number of years I have not worn orange. Yet, I am in the hills W/O a tag every fall, so my not wearing orange under the DUMB law in place is 100% LEGAL!!!


Cool. I have said it before I also think it is a DUMB law, but it is a law none the less.



> If you can say you NEVER speed, NEVER drive w/o a seatbelt on, ALWAYS come to a complete stop, and NEVER misspell words, I will say you have grounds to get "pissed" at others who don't ALWAYS "fallow" EVERY law. If not, you may want to tone down your 'outrage'.


Yes I can say I NEVER speed and I NEVER drive with out a selt belt. As far as traffic laws goes yes I am very good about FALLOWING them,but no one is perfect. I am not upset at people who try to follow laws even silly/dumb ones. Yes I can and WILL get PISSED at people who blatantly go out of the way to brake laws becuse they are sticking it to the man.


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

Well, I'm color blind so it doesn't matter if you wear orange or not...I still can't see you. Better watch out!!!! O*--


BTW, I am not a huge fan of orange, but try to wear it because it has been the law. If it becomes optional, I probably won't, unless I'm in on the Utah general deer hunt with all you crazy people. I'm getting an orange jump suit for next year. *-HELP!-*


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Well, I'm color blind so it doesn't matter if you wear orange or not...I still can't see you. Better watch out!!!!
> 
> BTW, I am not a huge fan of orange, but try to wear it because it has been the law. If it becomes optional, I probably won't, unless I'm in on the Utah general deer hunt with all you crazy people. I'm getting an orange jump suit for next year.


If your color blind then how do you know your wearing orange? You could be wearing a hot pink hunting vest for all you know. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## svmoose (Feb 28, 2008)

coyoteslayer said:


> > Well, I'm color blind so it doesn't matter if you wear orange or not...I still can't see you. Better watch out!!!!
> >
> > BTW, I am not a huge fan of orange, but try to wear it because it has been the law. If it becomes optional, I probably won't, unless I'm in on the Utah general deer hunt with all you crazy people. I'm getting an orange jump suit for next year.
> 
> ...


That's a really good point. I guess I'll be the guy in the hot pink jumpsuit. :lol:


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