# where's all the fall turkey stories?



## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

I'd have figured the historic opening of UT's first fall turkey hunt would be seeing more enthusiasm.

I talked to one guy who told me the boundaries of the open areas doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of what the turkeys are doing. :noidea:


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

The boundaries have EVERYTHING to do with success on Utah's fall turkey hunt, at least in the Northern area. I am not familiar with the other areas so I can't comment. But in the Cache area there will not be any birds within the boundaries until the snow drives them down out of the hills. Then they will be on all private ground and hunting will be VERY limited due to the words NO TRESSPASSING.


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

Not gonna try until after thanksgiving myself. To many other things going on right now.


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

BPturkeys said:


> The boundaries have EVERYTHING to do with success on Utah's fall turkey hunt, at least in the Northern area. I am not familiar with the other areas so I can't comment. But in the Cache area there will not be any birds within the boundaries until the snow drives them down out of the hills. Then they will be on all private ground and hunting will be VERY limited due to the words NO TRESSPASSING.


That description makes it sound like the land owners might like the turkeys to be there instead of being a problem for them. The guy I talked to who complained about the boundaries was hunting down south, so maybe the boundaries all around could stand some tweaking.

I did here a report from someone who was in turkeys all of yesterday morning, but was after a tom and couldn't quite get a shot.


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

A couple things to remember. There are only 73 permits in the northern area and I don't remember how many in the southern. How many of those with permits actually participate here? There are 2 months to hunt. Lots of guys probably waiting for the snow to push down the birds. Like the other guy said the birds don't know the boundaries 
Having said that here is what my 12 year old shot last night. It's his first bird. We have 3 more permits in our family so I'll post more as the rest of us fill our tags. We are going out again Friday afternoon and my 8 year old is dying to bag his first big bird.


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## Sawbillslayer (Oct 24, 2013)

All smiles that is what I like to see.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

In Cache valley the turkey hunt was almost exclusively driven by two or three very vocal and connected property owners in the Mendon area complaining about the birds that winter right in town. I guess I can't blame them for wanting the birds removed from their yards and even their front porches. So the DWR was forced to do something and the fall hunt was their answer. They could have just done the typical depredation hunt to remove the birds and it probably would have been more effective. At least calling it a fall hunt did open up some opportunity. But with the boundaries set as they are, their goal of limiting the number of birds that invade Mendon city won't work. The problem being that most areas where you could safely shoot are private, no hunting, and these owners are not the ones having the problem and aren't going to allow hunting on their property just to appease the people in down town. I think it's kind of like the DWR really doesn't want to reduce the number of birds in the area...thank goodness... and have said to the Mendon City folk "OK, we'll have a hunt, are you happy now"...knowing full well that very few birds will actually be removed cause there's no place to hunt.
The real answer to the bird problem is to simply have a feeding program up in the foothills during those couple of months the birds are down town. A couple truck loads of grain up on the Mendon city property would hold every bird for miles up and away from town all winter long. Is that just to simple to understand??


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

BPturkeys said:


> In Cache valley the turkey hunt was almost exclusively driven by two or three very vocal and connected property owners in the Mendon area complaining about the birds that winter right in town. I guess I can't blame them for wanting the birds removed from their yards and even their front porches. So the DWR was forced to do something and the fall hunt was their answer. They could have just done the typical depredation hunt to remove the birds and it probably would have been more effective. At least calling it a fall hunt did open up some opportunity. But with the boundaries set as they are, their goal of limiting the number of birds that invade Mendon city won't work. The problem being that most areas where you could safely shoot are private, no hunting, and these owners are not the ones having the problem and aren't going to allow hunting on their property just to appease the people in down town. I think it's kind of like the DWR really doesn't want to reduce the number of birds in the area...thank goodness... and have said to the Mendon City folk "OK, we'll have a hunt, are you happy now"...knowing full well that very few birds will actually be removed cause there's no place to hunt.
> The real answer to the bird problem is to simply have a feeding program up in the foothills during those couple of months the birds are down town. A couple truck loads of grain up on the Mendon city property would hold every bird for miles up and away from town all winter long. Is that just to simple to understand??


Then they need a doe hunt proposed to reduce the deer . Sometimes these whiney landowners should be told to stick it. Wildlife live with us, some will have to learn to live with wildlife.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Ditto to what BPturkeys said. A little food will keep them out of the towns.


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

For what it's worth I have yet to have had a property owner tell me I can't hunt their property when I explain the hunt to them. Most of them respond like "You can hunt my property on 1 condition. KILL as many turkey's as you can." The trick is going to be catching the turkey's at the right time and busting your butt to get permission to hunt.
I bet a lot of landowners will even be willing to call you when they find birds on their property. I have a buddy that passes some huntable ground every day coming and going to work. He is simply going to text me when he sees the birds.
The bird my son shot last night was probably with a group of 200 birds within a 5 acre section and I bet another 200 we just never saw in neighboring areas. So finding them at the right spot and the right time will be 95% of the work of the hunt. Once we finish out the other 3 tags we have I will ask the landowner if he minds me sharing his name with other hunters and assuming he is OK with that I'll pass the work to those trying to find the birds.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Well good for you. I think it's cool that you and your family are getting the birds, especially the kids. 
I just don't understand why the boundaries do not include public land. It wasn't by accident or an oversight on the part of the DWR that 100% of the land is on private property, they actually had to do there homework to come up with these boundaries.


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

The boundaries are goofy and suck honestly. My guess is the DWR is testing the waters for a full blown fall turkey hunt. There are enough birds to do a fall hunt for sure. They probably just want to see how things go. And IMO they could and probably will open it up to any area and won't have it restricted on where you can hunt. They thing I think is funny is that you could take all 73 birds from the northern hunt out of the group we hunted last night and by this time next year there will be more birds than when we started. If there aren't more turkeys killed by hunters their population is going to explode more than they have now. The landowner whose property we hunted last night said "The turkey are 10 times worse than all the deer and elk combined" in reference to the damage they do on his property. And their population is just going to continue to increase.


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

whitepd01 said:


> Having said that here is what my 12 year old shot last night. It's his first bird.


Awesome!


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

Wait til you see the grin I know my 8 year old will have. He didn't bag a turkey this spring but in this his first year of hunting he has shot doves, grouse, and ducks. The turkey will be the highlight though and his grin will be ear to ear. Hopefully I'll have a pic up by Saturday if the birds stay were they currently are.


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## gpskid (Jul 24, 2012)

*stories*

Really, the story is , an hunt that DWR was forced into from landownders that complained about to many Turkeys winter on their property. Most landowners fed these birds at first, thinking it was cool, "hey we have turkeys new to utah". Now they want them reduced, but turkey being a creator of habit kept coming back, the first , then their babies... and so on . But no , no one can hunt my property. The hunt was suppose to reduce them, but like most depredation hunts, (which is what this is), landowners balk and complained again. With no storm, snow these bird haven't even begin to move down to winter range. The hunt should be January, with permmisiom from all landowners, and good luck with that. They just pushed this issue to get money, they couldn't careless for wildlife. DWR will not pay money for damages for turkeys, they well just slaughter them all to rid the problem. If you don't believe me just sit back and watch the news in the spring.
If DWR wanted to really hunt them to reduce numbers, the hunt would have been early fall

The Kid


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

gpskid,
1. I don't think DWR gets forced into anything but thats simply my opinion which is different from yours.
2. You must not be very good at obtaining permission to hunt private land.
3. I don't think the purpose of the fall hunt was really to reduce numbers. If it were there would have been way more permits issued and way more ground available to hunt.
4. The birds I'm hunting are on their winter range. Not all birds are but we found some that are. AND we got permission to hunt the private property. Property I would guess typically doesn't get hunted much.
5. Saying DWR doesn't care about wildlife is just plain wrong. I have yet to meet anybody working for DWR that doesn't care about wildlife. But that's simply my experience.

You sure seem to have a burr in your saddle about something. I for one am glad the state has managed turkey's the way they have. Back when I was a kid I didn't even know wild turkey's existed. Now they are my favorite animal to hunt. I think it's awesome we have such incredible turkey hunting in Utah. So apparently DWR has done something right.....


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## gpskid (Jul 24, 2012)

First of all white boy, where were you in the late 80's , early 90's when I was in Kansas trapping turkeys to bring back to Utah.

And apparantly you missed the news the last two years about all the turkeys in town.

And yes they need to reduce numbers, or they we be on the news again...about the die off.

Thats good you got permissision, kill a bunch, better than having your local politition propose a bill to the house to allow landowner to kill on sight, which she did.

My first turkey I kilt in Utah was in 1985, probably before you were born.

Good luck with you hunt , and keep your opinions to your self, unless you know the facts

I would like to see the grin, that will be great


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

I trolled the southern boundary area......Nada. Zilch. Goose egg. Nothing.

BUT, a few miles away, found em. Outside the boundaries and still pretty high up.


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## Spotnstalk (Jun 25, 2014)

I don't know where the boundaries are but if stout canyon or goose berry point are in the hunt boundaries they were covered in turkey's during the deer hunt


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

Gpskid thanks for bringing the birds to utah!
Here are pics of the birds my 8 year old and I shot friday.















My 14 year old passed on tons of birds saturday. He doesnt want to be outdone by his little brother.


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## ottadad (Aug 28, 2014)

My father and I both harvested our first turkey in the southern region. It was definitely much easier than the spring hunt (last year was my first time). Dad shot a Tom with a 5 inch beard and I took a jake. Great day and great memory!

PS I apologize for the lack of a head on my turkey... apparently my full choke patterns pretty tight at 15 yards. ;-)


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Congrats whitepd01 and ottoadad!



> It was definitely much easier than the spring hunt (last year was my first time).


I've never hunted anything but timberland easterns in the fall/winter, but my experience is quite the opposite of that.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Nice! Looking at those tails, are you sure you don't have two toms?


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## gpskid (Jul 24, 2012)

*fall turkeys*

whitepd01
Thats what I'mm takin bout

nice, really nice
Congrats


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

BPturkeys said:


> Nice! Looking at those tails, are you sure you don't have two toms?


The headless one looks like it's got juvenile secondary coverts to me. And the first primaries on his left wing look juvenile also in the picture.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Yeah, you might be right. A look at the spurs would probably tell the tell. Not that it matters much one way or the other, the guy got a bird and has the memory of a fun hunt.


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## whitepd01 (Aug 26, 2014)

My oldest bagged his bird Saturday morning. Looks like we are done until spring. The best part however may be that we got invited back by the landowner and told we could hunt his property anytime  We had some pretty awesome adventures this fall hunt. We saw a HISTORIC turkey fail one night. We were stalking a bunch of birds that were on the other side of a fence moving away from us. The birds either got spooked or just decided it was time to roost and started jumping up and flying over the fence. Most of the birds got a running start to clear the fence. One of the turkeys however misjudged something and flew straight into the fence. The fence knocked the bird back on its butt pretty good. It staggered to its feet, shook itself off and tried again. The second time it was successful. My son and I laughed and laughed and laughed about that. Enjoy the last picture. Good luck to the rest with tags.


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

whitepd01 said:


> My oldest bagged his bird Saturday morning. Looks like we are done until spring. The best part however may be that we got invited back by the landowner and told we could hunt his property anytime


Congrats all around!


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## robiland (Jan 20, 2008)

I saw over 200 turkeys on saturday. I lost track after 150+ and saw many many more. I wish central Utah was on the list to hunt fall turkeys. It was crazy the amount we saw.


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## Idratherbehunting (Jul 17, 2013)

My buddy and I both tagged out on Saturday in the northern region. I really enjoyed the hunt and hope to do it again.


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Idratherbehunting said:


> My buddy and I both tagged out on Saturday in the northern region. I really enjoyed the hunt and hope to do it again.


Any pictures to share?


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## jasonwooden (Nov 30, 2014)

BPturkeys said:


> In Cache valley the turkey hunt was almost exclusively driven by two or three very vocal and connected property owners in the Mendon area complaining about the birds that winter right in town. I guess I can't blame them for wanting the birds removed from their yards and even their front porches. So the DWR was forced to do something and the fall hunt was their answer. They could have just done the typical depredation hunt to remove the birds and it probably would have been more effective. At least calling it a fall hunt did open up some opportunity. But with the boundaries set as they are, their goal of limiting the number of birds that invade Mendon city won't work. The problem being that most areas where you could safely shoot are private, no hunting, and these owners are not the ones having the problem and aren't going to allow hunting on their property just to appease the people in down town. I think it's kind of like the DWR really doesn't want to reduce the number of birds in the area...thank goodness... and have said to the Mendon City folk "OK, we'll have a hunt, are you happy now"...knowing full well that very few birds will actually be removed cause there's no place to hunt.
> The real answer to the bird problem is to simply have a feeding program up in the foothills during those couple of months the birds are down town. A couple truck loads of grain up on the Mendon city property would hold every bird for miles up and away from town all winter long. Is that just to simple to understand??


I live in Mendon and have to disagree with your assessment. I personally haven't heard of any "vocal and well connected" individuals in our community who demanded a Fall hunt, it just happened out of necessity. Quite frankly it is obvious the birds are overrunning the town, getting killed on Hwy 23 and eating anything in sight. Cleaning turkey poop off the front porch all winter gets a little old. There was a depredation hunt last year (even mistakenly called one in as a poacher, I didn't know any better at the time). I think the DWR realized the population had exploded beyond what was reasonable and healthy, and the best "win-win" way to keep them out of town was hunting pressure between town and the public lands above town. I believe most (if not all) private land owners around Mendon would allow turkey hunters on their property. The Cache County Recorder's office website makes researching private land ownership easy: http://66.232.67.238/countymap/

Another unspoken drawback to the high turkey population in and around Mendon is the corresponding crash in grouse and pheasant numbers (which I would prefer over turkeys). Some say the turkeys push out these other upland birds, even rooting out their nests and eating their eggs. I don't know of any research to back this up, but it seems likely.

As far as feeding goes, we used to have pheasant feeding stations all over the foothills that volunteers would maintain, but the turkeys took them over so they quit doing it several years ago. Also the city council has banned the feeding of turkeys in town, so that shouldn't be much of an issue anymore, if it ever was.


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

jasonwooden said:


> Another unspoken drawback to the high turkey population in and around Mendon is the corresponding crash in grouse and pheasant numbers (which I would prefer over turkeys). Some say the turkeys push out these other upland birds, even rooting out their nests and eating their eggs. I don't know of any research to back this up, but it seems likely.


There have been research done.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2011/10/do_turkeys_replace_ruffed_or_b.html

http://www.consulting-foresters.com/?id=turkeys_ruffed_grouse

http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/personnel/cha...eys influence quail or grouse populations.pdf


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## Eclectic (Jun 9, 2014)

For what it's worth, I've raised gamebirds for about 3 decades (between 500 and 700 per year for several years), including wild turkeys, pheasants, chukars & valley & coturnix quail - I ran a small commercial hunting area for a while. All of my turkey pens, at one time or another, would also contain one or more of the other species of birds all the way through laying season. I never had a single turkey of either sex or any age depredate an egg even though several of the smaller birds' nests would be scattered throughout the turkeys' enclosure. High concentrations of birds under pen-reared conditions usually promote egg-eating behavior, but none of my turkeys ever developed it, and I have raised about 150 to maturity throughout the last 30 years. I kept many of my breeder for 5 or 6 years. Based on my limited experience with pen-reared wild turkeys, I would doubt that such behavior exists in wild populations. I also remember years ago when this debate came up, the NWTF published an article in its bi-monthly publication, "The Caller," addressing the subject. All of the available research at the time concluded that wild turkeys did not depredate ruffed grouse eggs or chicks - they even posted a picture of a combined eastern turkey/ruffed grouse "dump" nest - a wild nest containing a combination of grouse AND turkey eggs. Thanks to Hawg for providing us some research articles as well!


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Had a good hunt this morning. It was almost like a spring hunt. 3 gobblers came in strutting with their flock of hens.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

What state? January turkey hunt? Awesome!


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## hawglips (Aug 23, 2013)

Virginia.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Very nice whitepd01 - your kid's grins say it all. That's great that you got them involved!


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