# Quilts vs Bags



## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

I've never been in tune to marketing like I am today since I began hunting. The hunting industry seems to know how to market gear very well. Either that or I live more like a clam and am oblivious to the world around me in this regard.

Are quilts worth the cost? It feels like if a quilt is going to work it would need to be made with down and light weight material which costs quite a bit. Furthermore it seems to me a quilt wouldnt be of much use in colder seasons. I'm a broad shouldered tall fella that turns a bit in my sleep. I bought a cheap bag that doesn't exactly fit perfect and sleeping in it doesn't provide good sleep. A quilt would allow me to be more free but wouldnt a true fitting bag do the same?

I'm looking at both and dont want to buy both. Especially spending anything over $200 for either and I dont want to miss on the purchase either.

Any experience or insight in this arena would be appreciated.


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## weaversamuel76 (Feb 16, 2017)

I bought a quilt for wieght savings but found it drafty when I moved and went back to a zip up bag. I've heard there's a learning curve to using them but after 2 trips mine found a new home. Resting well is worth extra cost and wieght to me. My hunting partner continues to use a quilt and would never go back to a bag.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

How deep does your friend let the mercury dip still using a quilt?

I am on-board for weight savings but a learning curve to sleep good? I fear I would be re-homing as fast as you did.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Learning how to properly strap a quilt to your pad, having a correctly sized quilt, and using the right pad make a huge difference. I have a 10° quilt from Zpacks, and I love it. 20oz of treated down, and I'm toasty in nothing but my underwear down to 5° so far.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I have never used a quilt, but I offer these thoughts:

What type of use is intended? Backpacking, the usual car/road camping, or both?

What season(s) is the expected use? Personally, if your talking late fall, and into winter, you'd have a hard time convincing me about the weight savings of the quilt being worth it.

In short, I think quilts are the purview of dedicated backpackers. The only reason they exist, is to shave weight off one of the big 3.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Warm, light weight AND cheap usually don't go together. A quilt that is large enough and warm enough is by far more comfortable for a restless sleeper than any bag...BUT.. 
I have had great luck with one of the large sleeping bags. I only zip it up to about my knees leaving it to work like a loose fitting quilt when I need to turn over. It won't slip off your feet and the top part is there to pull back over you after you roll over. NOT for backpacking of course. Buy one that has a slick lining...not flannel. This allows you to move without dragging the quilt/bag with you as you move. As you approach the limits of warmth of the bag, start wearing more clothing, up to and including your boots.
A couple things to remember when buying...make sure the rating is in Fahrenheit, not Celsius...very deceptive to us here in America. And remember, comfort zone only means survive, not warm. Always buy one rated much colder than what the label says will be comfortable.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm a big person 6'4" and 230lbs and have no problems sleeping in my oversize bag and can't imagine just a quilt being better. But the bag option can be a problem if you are back packing into a area where weight is a issue.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I have never used a quilt, but I offer these thoughts:
> 
> What type of use is intended?
> 
> ...


Shave weight yes. Late fall, winter yes.

I've sorted a bit out with the help of this article,

https://sectionhiker.com/quilt-sleeping-bags-pros-cons/

I've been hovering around the idea of ridiculous marketing. A "blanket" strapped to a blow up pad with a high R value just doesn't really add up later in the season. Yet I see websites saying "0 degree quilts". That's a tough sell 
Now if we are talking about a "hoodless sleeping bag" calling it a quilt, I am beginning to be sold.

I have a similar frame as you Critter. The issue is the weight of a full bag as you mentioned. Weight and compactibility into the back country. People have been doing it and do do it with a regular down sleeping bag, but if I'm going to spend a bit, itd be nice if I could check a few extra boxes even if it means I dawn a couple extra layers of head gear.

Then again, just buying a regular hooded down bag at this point for me would easily shave off 2 pounds. Maybe I'm just being greedy with the other half pound - pound trying to sacrifice too much for so little.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Back in my backpacking days I picked up a real nice Coleman semi mummy type of a bag that is good down to a -10 that I have no problems sleeping in. I prefer my rectangular bag but this one works. 

The big thing with bags quilts or whatever you plan on sleeping in is that you need to feel comfortable. I mostly like bags because you can zip them up or zip them down. You can open them at the feet or leave it closed. Quilts just don't offer this advantage. 

When I was over in Africa and we were planning on taking a horse back ride into a remote village I needed to pick up a bag. A couple of people in the store thought that I was nuts when I told them that I wanted to try it on before buying it. I just laid it down on the floor, took off my boots and crawled in. I then flopped around some just to see how it felt. 

I left that bag over there, some kid got a great present.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

olibooger said:


> Shave weight yes. Late fall, winter yes.
> 
> I've sorted a bit out with the help of this article,
> 
> ...


We are in a similar boat then. I'm just now getting into backpacking, only because of road closures. I'm at a point in my "outdoor career" where waiting for the spring fall to get out again isn't something I want to do. Winter time has it's own challenges, and I started snowshoeing and winter coyote hunting a couple of years ago. Now I'm at the point where I can't get back in far enough in a day, and I'm not buying a snowmobile, soo..... carrying my camp is the solution.

I just recently bought a zero degree down bag, it compresses nicely, and weighs 3 pounds and 7 ounces. Not the best bag at 600-650 loft, but it'll work. I mulled over quilt vs bag for a alittle bit, but in the end I decide to trust my life to equipment that I *know *will work, and not something that I *think *will work.

As it is, winter time is probably the worst time to backpack in terms of weight. Your going to have to carry a lot more with you then you would in then the summer or early fall. Only plus side is, there's water in the form of snow.. EVERYWHERE. :mrgreen:

If I don't come down with the cold my wife is currently sporting, I'll be out next weekend in the Manti.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

If you expand your research into what people use for mountaineering / arctic travel rather than light weight backpacking it may give a more realistic idea what you may want for at least the winter part of your equation.

As was mentioned above winter being what it is will require carrying more weight.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

Not going to lie Critter, if I saw a tall white guy rolling around on the ground in a sleeping bag, in a store, in Africa I would probably think you're a bit kooky. The afore mentioned website/article got me moving in that direction of comfortable with a zippered option. 
I'm sure whoever that little boy is remembers you to this day.

My boat looks nearly identical to yours Lone. I dont have a truck (yet) and when I do, a snowmobile wont be the first thing I put on it. It will probably be my ebike I bought in place of the truck/wheeler/side by side for the time being. I ran into the same issue and was asking around about it. How do people get so far in and hunt in one day? Most answers were mechanical transportation of some sort. Yes, my Chevrolegs (even though my last name is Ford) are my best mode of transportation with light weight overnight gear.

I like that, sticking to what I KNOW will work. I think that statement alone makes the decision a lot easier. And yeah, I found out real quick how much more gear is needed for backcountry winter excursions.

I'm thinking 15°F bag to utilize as a "quilt" in the summer and down jacket/pants/bomber hat for winter. I got hooked real good this year into the outdoors. I'm a little bummed the season is over and making plans to stay outdoors in the winter after season next year.

I have never even been to the Manti before besides a map. Sounds like a good spot to ser wildlife. &#129310; you stay healthy and are able to make it out.



middlefork said:


> As was mentioned above winter being what it is will require carrying more weight.


I'm coming to realize that there isnt a way around it and I probably shouldnt be trying to shave weight when it comes to sleep attire.

It doesn't take long after I ask questions like this to folks like you that the obvious answer sticks out. Appreciate the community here.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> If you expand your research into what people use for mountaineering / arctic travel rather than light weight backpacking it may give a more realistic idea what you may want for at least the winter part of your equation.
> 
> As was mentioned above winter being what it is will require carrying more weight.


Know where I can buy a Pulk? I'm wondering if it would be easier to put my pack in that and drag it behind me. :mrgreen:



olibooger said:


> Not going to lie Critter, if I saw a tall white guy rolling around on the ground in a sleeping bag, in a store, in Africa I would probably think you're a bit kooky. The afore mentioned website/article got me moving in that direction of comfortable with a zippered option.
> I'm sure whoever that little boy is remembers you to this day.
> 
> My boat looks nearly identical to yours Lone. I dont have a truck (yet) and when I do, a snowmobile wont be the first thing I put on it. It will probably be my ebike I bought in place of the truck/wheeler/side by side for the time being. I ran into the same issue and was asking around about it. How do people get so far in and hunt in one day? Most answers were mechanical transportation of some sort. Yes, my Chevrolegs (even though my last name is Ford) are my best mode of transportation with light weight overnight gear.
> ...


I've a second gen 4 runner that can get me into enough places to get into trouble. Last year I bite off more then I and It could chew and got stuck about 3 miles in. I found myself in a position where I couldn't go forward, and couldn't turn around. Ended up trying to back myself out down the road I came in on, and slid off the side of the road and high centered. Luckily I had enough foresight to throw a shovel in before I left. Took me a couple hours, a lot of cursing, a few rocks, and a few logs to unstuck myself. Wish I had differential lock.

I'll tell ya right now, your going to need a different bag for summer, and winter. A 15 degree bag will do ok in early spring and into fall, but it will be way too hot during summer, and not enough during winter. If you were car camping the solution is easy, a modular sleep system.

https://colemans.com/us-gi-modular-sleep-system-mss

You used to be able to buy the USGI ones for cheap, but they've gone up in price. There was a DRMO vendor that has gone out of business and you could have picked them up for like 60 bucks. I have a couple of them that I've used for 8 years or so now. They are nowhere near the -30 degree system, but they work for everything I've used them for.

But.... those aren't light. As backpacking goes, i'd say get a zero degree mummy bag, and a 30 degree bag. That's my plan anyway. Maybe a 15 degree bag will work for you though. For me, I don't see it working, but that's an individual thing on how warm you like to be when sleeping. That said, Another thing to consider for down bags and winter in general is a bag liner. Protect your bag and add more temperature rating at the same time. I picked up one of these on amazon:
https://seatosummitusa.com/collecti...tor-extreme-liner?_pos=2&_sid=4b88ff723&_ss=r

I don't believe them on the temp rating, but Its probably good for another 10 degrees. They make a fleece version as well.
https://seatosummitusa.com/collecti...ctor-fleece-liner?_pos=3&_sid=4b88ff723&_ss=r

And as for KNOW vs THINK, i view it as simple logic. I've always run solo, and it's not always by choice. I tend to really research my equipment because there's a good chance my life may depend on it, so I don't gamble with it if I don't need to. I go with what I know.. not with what I think. I'll test stuff out in my backyard too. Between the wind and the snow during winter, I've a good test bed in my backyard. My neighbors probably think I'm weird pitching a tent and camping out while it's snowing, but I'm just testing my stuff in a controlled environment. Gives me an idea of what to expect from my equipment before I go.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Pulk? Here are a few suggestions.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106632171/ski-mountaineering-sleds

And doubled up bags can be a great alternative. I'm just not sure how they would work for the more stoutly built above.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

And in reality you can dump the weight of the tent and use snow. That helps.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

Are you saying to build an igloo? 🤔🤦‍♂️

Sounds fun. 

For some reason the quilt keeps beckoning my name. I really cant afford two separate bags. A bag liner + down top n bottom in a 15° bag seems more realistic. 
Those hoodless bags though...


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

olibooger said:


> Are you saying to build an igloo? &#129300;&#129318;‍♂
> 
> Sounds fun.
> 
> ...


If you get a high quality quilt with a high quality pad with a high R value, and learn how to use it you really can be every bit as warm and comfy as you would be with a full bag.

Most quilts have an option to have a footbox sown in them, which I recommend. Since getting my quilt last summer, I have camped in winter conditions in Alaska using my quilt and 3 season ultralight tent and stay very warm and comfy even with outside temps in the low single digits without wearing anything but my boxer briefs. The couple nights it was in the -15 to 0F range it got chilly enough I put on my thermals and a beanie and then was plenty comfy.

Staying warm in a bag or quilt is primarily about loft. You get essentially zero loft from the part of the bag underneath you, and only a minimal increase in R-value above what your pad provides. My Neoair thermarest Xtherm max had a 5.7 r-value which is plenty for winter conditions IMO. Slap a 10° or 0° quilt with that and your golden. My pad and quilt combined weigh 3.5lbs and are imo more comfortable than my 10° Wiggy's mummy bag that weighs 4.5lbs by itself.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

wow, this is the first time I've used UWF on a computer. I had an entire reply typed up but I scrolled up to reference a past post, noticed it was on a different page, clicked on page one and lost my post. .. I was just thinking how much nicer it is to type on an actual keyboard. :shock:

anyhow, quick and simple. johnnycake your sleeping pad sized to fit me is well over $200. not that I wouldn't buy that sleeping pad but considering I just picked up an insulated static V i would stick with it. neoair r-value 5.7, the V r value 4.4. If you are able to sleep in undies at single digits, theoretically I one should be able to sleep minus 1.3 r-value donned in down, under a 10 degree quilt on the V. I would think so anyways as long as the footbox is sewn in and zipper side down. 

I have been researching a lot more today and what johnny says about the down being comnpacted on the under side I read somewhere. makes sense also, loft is needed and there is no loft there, therefore the pad becomes the loft. 

well hell. now that i say that out loud (?) i might retract my theory. a full 1.3 r value down could effect a lot loft wise in that kind of weather....

anyways, it sounds like we have one person who got rid of their quilt and all others are liking it. the more i read, the more I feel like I know. 

are you guys that use the quilts finding it shifts on you at night and gets drafty at times or is that part of the learning curve? 

these quilts....calling my name...-O,-


western mountaineering, outdoor vitals and enlightened are some brands I've been looking at. plus a couple mentioned above. any others worth mentioning out there? 
should I be scratching any I have mentioned?

I cant help but think a quilt would make baby making much easier than a bag also. :idea: -()/- -O\\__-
couldn't help it. way better emoticons on a computer.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I am a very restless sleeper, and I had my quilt made to be a bit wider than my size indicates. It cost me an additional 5 oz in weight but I think it is well worth it. I also tend to run hot and like a cool blast every so often while sleeping. It is really easy to kick my leg out, or get a quick lift and cool down. Way better than having to unzip my bag and rezip it in the middle of the night.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

olibooger said:


> Are you saying to build an igloo? &#129300;&#129318;‍♂
> 
> Sounds fun.


Not neccessarily an igloo, there are other methods.










Watch this guys videos. The rest of his channel is here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoKcgq5r8oWjvMaxtxO3vPQ/videos

He's actually in northern Utah, your not going to get much better information on how to do some stuff. That guy older then me, and tougher then me. I figured that out after watching him in one of his videos sleep under a tarp shelter in winter.

Personally, I'm still bringing my tent, until I'm confident enough with making snow shelters. Snow, does have insulating properties, with enough experience, it's probably a better way to go.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

Brotha man, that sounds way fun!!!


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The temperature in a snow shelter is pretty much 32 degrees. A small candle for light will quickly heat it up to the point that the walls will glaze over and start to drip. So the smoother the better. Build a bench to sleep on and the colder air will sink below you.

Also a ventilation hole is mandatory.

It really is easy to practice different shelters


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

But before you go out into your back yard and pile up the snow to make a snow shelter go take a class and learn just how to build one properly along on how to check the snow layers so that you don't have to have someone find you next summer.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> But before you go out into your back yard and pile up the snow to make a snow shelter go take a class and learn just how to build one properly along on how to check the snow layers so that you don't have to have someone find you next summer.


Yeah Avalanches are a worry of mine. As much as I would like to go to some familiar areas, I'm avoiding them because they are all around 9,000 feet, with North/south facing slopes, and assorted terrain traps. My wintertime goals are more limited to slow rolling hills and valley floors away from most slopes until I gain more experience.

As an aside, Oilbooger:
https://kbyg.org/learn/
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/

edit: Aside from that, I've barely enough snow in my backyard right now to make a snowman for my 5 year old.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

There are plenty of places to practice your skills without exposure to avalanche terrain.

Tents in winter have their own problems. Mostly from condensation freezing on the interior.

Thoughts on down insulation versus synthetic? I started out with down but gradually went to synthetic when I needed to stay warm with moisture present.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

middlefork said:


> There are plenty of places to practice your skills without exposure to avalanche terrain.
> 
> Tents in winter have their own problems. Mostly from condensation freezing on the interior.
> 
> Thoughts on down insulation versus synthetic? I started out with down but gradually went to synthetic when I needed to stay warm with moisture present.


Synthetic is definitely more reliable if you're expecting to get wet. But, I have been very pleasantly surprised by how well my treated down has held up to wet conditions.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

I've really been wanting to get a quilt for backpacking and hunting, as I generally sleep with my legs spread eagle and I tend to roll around a fair bit. But, I haven't had any experience with one yet and my wife just bought me a roomy sleeping bag for my last birthday.

I had the idea of making the sleeping system a bit more modular so that the quilt can be used in the summer. What I would do is:

Get a 30F quilt from Zpacks
Get a nice pair of down pants to wear late fall/winter when sleeping in the quilt

If you're hunting and backpacking in the cold, you likely already have a down jacket. So, in the cold you'd just wear the down jacket and pants under the 30F quilt. Also, if you're out away from camp doing some glassing in the frigid air, you can pack the pants with you to wear while you sit.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

For me going the quilt route I would go 10/15°. I am more of a cold sleeper and enjoy a blanket regardless of temperature. I will however sleep in down tops and bottoms in the colder months also. I get cold feet like crazy and the booties being sold on zpacks look appetizing. 
I feel like my feet regulate my body temperature. Cold/hot feet and I am cold or hot. Probably means I have poor circulation. I'm wrapping up my scheduling for this year and gym time is part of that schedule. Hopefully it helps.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

I ended up getting a 20 degree zpacks quilt. It may be warmer than intended but I can always throw legs out or sleep in undies in summer and it opens the door for winter camping.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Just one mans opinion, but I think your going to need more then a 20 degree quilt in the winter.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

Yes I agree my good man. Down jacket, pants and bag liner with a good R value pad. 

Zpacks even sell these crazy moon boot looking down slipper thingies and beanie type of deal. 

Honestly it was a tough decision. So much so that I did order the 10 degree but thought better of it for 90% of its use not in winter. Cancelled that order and got the 20 degree.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

olibooger said:


> Yes I agree my good man. Down jacket, pants and bag liner with a good R value pad.
> 
> Zpacks even sell these crazy moon boot looking down slipper thingies and beanie type of deal.
> 
> Honestly it was a tough decision. So much so that I did order the 10 degree but thought better of it for 90% of its use not in winter. Cancelled that order and got the 20 degree.


I think the 20F quilt was the right call for you in Utah. And even in the winter, as long as you have a decent tent and pad, you can make a 20F quilt/bag plenty warm enough by layering clothes as needed.

I'll warn you though, if this is the first time you've bought something from ZPacks it probably won't be the last! They make excellent gear.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️&#55358;&#56692;
Ah man. 
Just what I need. . . .more overtime of course!

Thanks for the heads up.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

olibooger said:


> Yes I agree my good man. Down jacket, pants and bag liner with a good R value pad.


I suggest two pads, not just one. If you have 4 feet of snow under you like I did last time I was out, i also suggest cutting some pine boughs and putting them down first, then your ground sheet, then your tent, and then your pads (plural).

Winter backpacking has become my new thing, this being my first year I've been seriously into it. Quite the learning experience. It's nice feeling like you have the mountain to yourself.

edit: Oh yeah, winter time, build a pulk, your gonna need it.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

I remember you were saying you were going to camp out a couple months back!
You made it out before getting sick?? - Lone?

I started snooping around their site more. Rain gear? Hundreds less than what I paid? Anyone have any idea if the Vertice stuff is any good? I have a hard time trusting reviews. Wish they had a camo pattern. They look swooshy

Omigosh, (!!) They have a rain kilt. LoL


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

olibooger said:


> I remember you were saying you were going to camp out a couple months back!
> You made it out before getting sick?? - Lone?
> 
> I started snooping around their site more. Rain gear? Hundreds less than what I paid? Anyone have any idea if the Vertice stuff is any good? I have a hard time trusting reviews. Wish they had a camo pattern. They look swooshy
> ...


I cought a cold once this year, popping copious amounts of airborne helped me avoid the rest.

Are you talking about wiggy's? I gave up on that for several reasons. For one, I don't think your going to beat the warmth to weight ratio of down. For two, synthetic bags tend to be bulky and for backpacking purposes that poses a problem, and for three I called wiggys twice to ask questions. The second time I call I ended up talking with Mr wiggy himself. I was not impressed, and a little creeped out. That guy knew my name before I even told him what it was (stalk much Mr wiggy?), and after hearing him talk it was pretty obvious to me he has an ego larger then jay leno's head, utterly convinced of the superiority of his bags in every way. He reminded me of a car salesmen. I couldn't get off the phone fast enough.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

I dont know mr. Wiggy but I will say people with an ego drive me nuts! Then to hustle you like that creeper status? No thanks. I'll remember this if a mr. Wiggy name pops up in the future. 

I was snooping around the zpacks website


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

olibooger said:


> I dont know mr. Wiggy but I will say people with an ego drive me nuts! Then to hustle you like that creeper status? No thanks. I'll remember this if a mr. Wiggy name pops up in the future.
> 
> I was snooping around the zpacks website


Wiggy's is good, but yeah the guy is a bit conceited. His shop is about 2 blocks from my house.

I don't have any of the ZPacks rain gear but my guess is that it doesn't hold up to brush busting very well.


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## olibooger (Feb 13, 2019)

Wow. My Zpack bag came today. Its unreal how nice it is. Super blessed.


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## Wildlifepark (Feb 25, 2018)

Whether it's for camping or hunting, I always go to a quilt. Choose microfibre quilts, feather, and down quilts. Those are good for cold sleepers, it retains a lot of heat. This article might help you, too https://www.toolazine.com/necessary-things-for-camping/ a Therm-a-Rest Corus HD Quilt might suitable for you.


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