# Fly master wanted



## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

Fly student looking for fly master! Any takers?


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm no master, but fairly proficient. Depends on the day if I am available or not.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Just go spend a bunch of time on the water. No one needs to be an apprentice to catch fish on flies. Trial and error 'till you figure it out. I spent many hours figuring out what does NOT work before I started having success. Soak up what you can from the internet, books, magazines, etc. Hopefully you buy in to the ethic that tends to go along with the sport like solitude, proper fish handling and C&R or selective harvest, not promoting sensitive waters, etc.

I'm willing to give some tips here, but to be honest, I am not willing to fish with either of you at this time. You seem to look upon fishing as a numbers game or some kind of extreme sport. Hopefully learning the craft of catching fish on flies will mellow you out a bit. Good luck.


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## Moostickles (Mar 11, 2010)

ScottyP said:


> ...Hopefully you buy in to the ethic that tends to go along with the sport like solitude, proper fish handling and C&R or selective harvest, not promoting sensitive waters, etc.
> 
> I'm willing to give some tips here, but to be honest, I am not willing to fish with either of you at this time. You seem to look upon fishing as a numbers game or some kind of extreme sport. Hopefully learning the craft of catching fish on flies will mellow you out a bit. Good luck.


A little harsh don't you think? People go fishing to have a good time, and enjoy the outdoors and company of others. But unfortunately, that third one is a little tougher these days, because being around people that have high-and-mighty attitudes like yours is the reason I don't fish popular rivers anymore. All the twins did was ask for a little guidance with fly tying, not a lecture.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

+1, too many people feeling the only way they can offer info is to also add an anti tye dye disclaimer with it. they aren't holding a gun to your head asking for fly tips...and by now people know what they're getting with the twins. like it or hate it.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Harsh? I gave some advise on this and the knot question thread. I'm just making it clear that I will not be the one to take this guy out and show him how easy it is to nymph the lower provo just so he can turn around and spam the forum with post after post of 'dude I caught 37 fish and missed a hunderd more on the provo today! Here are some pictures of akwardly held fish and some more covered in dirt!' 

I will give some basic info but I don't hang with numbers types or folks that have to manhandle every fish they catch for a snapshot to feed their own egos. If that makes me high and mighty or a jerk, so be it. I could give a **** less.


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

ScottyP said:


> Just go spend a bunch of time on the water. No one needs to be an apprentice to catch fish on flies. Trial and error 'till you figure it out. I spent many hours figuring out what does NOT work before I started having success. Soak up what you can from the internet, books, magazines, etc. Hopefully you buy in to the ethic that tends to go along with the sport like solitude, proper fish handling and C&R or selective harvest, not promoting sensitive waters, etc.
> 
> I'm willing to give some tips here, but to be honest, I am not willing to fish with either of you at this time. You seem to look upon fishing as a numbers game or some kind of extreme sport. Hopefully learning the craft of catching fish on flies will mellow you out a bit. Good luck.


Really? Scotty why did you reply? Stop acting so high and mighty. As if I EVER have to fish to your standards. Who do you think you are to tell me why my fishing motives are incorrect? Time to get off that high horse of yours Scotty. Don't hurt yourself as that is a mighty high horse you ride BTW. Go take your anti tye dye frustrations out fishing and off the forums!

I have started to consider adding disclaimers to my posts. Last trip report I said "don't name the spot". Well sure enough someone on BFT blasted it (luckily it was taken down by mods). This time I was going to add "if you want to say that you won't take me save your typing muscles and DON'T BOTHER POSTING!!!!" I was afraid the disclaimer was going to encourage the exact behavior I didn't want. Pfft but a true Tye Dye fan came right out of the closet and started a cry baby rant.......again. I kinda figured a few elitest fly guys would come out of the woodwork on this thead.

I am looking to be a student, not a self learner this time. I took up a student on BFT last year. He wanted help as he had never hooked into anything beyond himself and a turtle. Well I took him out there and what do ya know he caught a few fish. Man his fish rates went through the roof after I showed him the tricks of the trade! Now days he is a great fisherman thanks to me. Quite rewarding.


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

ScottyP said:


> Hopefully learning the craft of catching fish on flies will mellow you out a bit. Good luck.


Yeah well you should take your own advise sometime. It hasn't mellowed you out.


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

ScottyP said:


> Harsh? I gave some advise on this and the knot question thread. I'm just making it clear that I will not be the one to take this guy out and show him how easy it is to nymph the lower provo just so he can turn around and spam the forum with post after post of 'dude I caught 37 fish and missed a hunderd more on the provo today! Here are some pictures of akwardly held fish and some more covered in dirt!'
> 
> I will give some basic info but I don't hang with numbers types or folks that have to manhandle every fish they catch for a snapshot to feed their own egos. If that makes me high and mighty or a jerk, so be it. I could give a **** less.


Well that is nice. Why do you need to make anything clear hear? What magical advise did you give again on this thread?


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

why would you want to give any info at all that might lead to more fish covered in dirt or handled awkwardly? just interesting logic that I'm sure will go 8 pages long. I'll sit the rest of this one out.


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

Quit yer tantrum youngster! I'm still not going to take you fishing.

BTW, blood knot and spend time on the water. That was my advise and enough to get you started if you are sincere in your quest. Now go catch a hunderd fish grasshoppa!


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

ScottyP said:


> Quit yer tantrum youngster! I'm still not going to take you fishing.
> 
> BTW, blood knot and spend time on the water. That was my advise and enough to get you started if you are sincere in your quest. Now go catch a hunderd fish grasshoppa!


Dude you just took this thread (more like hijacked it) as your chance to get up on a soapbox and say that you don't want to fish with me. Quite lame of you actually! Why bother dude? Did I ask who doesn't want to fish with me? Nope!!!


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

utahgolf said:


> why would you want to give any info at all that might lead to more fish covered in dirt or handled awkwardly? just interesting logic that I'm sure will go 8 pages long. I'll sit the rest of this one out.


This thread has that "lock feel" to it doesn't it?


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

utahgolf said:


> why would you want to give any info at all that might lead to more fish covered in dirt or handled awkwardly? just interesting logic that I'm sure will go 8 pages long. I'll sit the rest of this one out.


Ya got me. I was just pretending to give advise as a guise to push my fishing politics ;0) You golf I assume? Isn't there certain traditions and decorum involved with golf that you might try and impress on someone new to the sport?


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

We all know where this is heading.
Please everyone take the high road and try to NOT get this locked.
If you have personal thoughts to convey, use the PM system.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

tye dye -- i actually thought Scotty gave you great advice. You don't need a coach. You don't need a teacher. Just go fishing. You will never catch a fish unless your fly is in the water.


Just like hunters, anglers go through some basic stages. They are NOT in any specific order, and none of them is the "best" one to be in. What you get out of fishing is different for all of us. If you look at someone like Chris30, he's a "trophy" stage guy. Tyedye is a "numbers" or "liimit" type of guy -- how many fish can he catch in a day? Now look at Scotty, who appears to me to be the "method" stage -- it's all about what kind of rod, what kind of fly, what kind of cast. Others may be in the "sportsman" stage, in which the methods, numbers, sizes, etc. don't matter, but enjoying the sport does.


There is no reason to think about locking this thread. When someone asks for advice, they need to be able to accept that advice they are given without having their feelings hurt. 

Tye dye -- step back for a moment and read Scotty's advice from a more objective point of view. Take that advice for what it is worth.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Well said PBH.


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## HighNDry (Dec 26, 2007)

Fly fishing is one of the simplest forms of fishing. With the availability of information on the internet, expos, fly shop classes, books and DVD, you should have no trouble learning. Next step is to take that knowledge out to the water and get experience.

I think the main reason a fly mater has not taken you up--is there is no such thing as a fly master (except for those who believe it in their own minds). A real fly master will always wander down or up stream by themself. When you see them around the bend, you will see them looking in a fly box or standing motionless staring at the water. When you ask them if they caught any, they will softly chuckle and mumble, "a few." You will never actually see them ever catch a fish. On the drive home they will talk about the clouds, the trees, and how just being out is good. They might throw out just enough latin to impress or they might talk about all the fabled waters they have fished. They also like to talk about celebrity fly fishers that they have met. Being a fly master is hard work and every bit as deceptive as the artificial flies they cast. I would dare suggest, that most fly masters ARE as artificial as the flies they tie and use. For some strange reason, being able to wrap some fur, feathers, and thread around a hook can really go to a person's head--same with casting the dang thing in some water and catching a fish.


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## LOAH (Sep 29, 2007)

YouTube is a great mentor for fly casting.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

A few points on a slow work day from the snow. 

1. Based on your voluminous reports, it sounds like you have at least the basics down. You certainly can build on that. 

2. Go out and have fun with it. I consider myself a terrible fly angler, and my friends that are more adept probably get some guffaws from watching me, but I don't really care and I get fish now and again to boot. 

3. Others have listed numerous resources that can be used. All of these are good. Since no one else will give it a plug, there is the Wasatch fly tying and fishing expo at South Towne today and tomorrow. May be worth your time.

4. There is lots of good talent on the boards here and elsewhere, but good FFers tend not to be into internet thread dramatics FWIW.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

sawsman said:


> Well said PBH.


I agree w/ Scotty and PBH 100%. I would hate to see these two pillage another fishery.


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

At first I wanted to agree with most of what has been said here. I hate to see the pics of miss treated fish and I hate the exploitation that takes place on the internet in general. It seems to me that Tie Die is giving us an opportunity to teach them about all the aspects of fly fishing which should include how to handle fish and the proper way to release them etc. Fly fishing has taught most of us to have a deep, almost religious experience with the act of angling but I don't think most of us started in the sport with that in mind, it just was the natural progression. At the risk of sounding boastful, and I don't mean to, I started teaching fly fishing (part time) professionally about 20 years ago and most of the teaching starts in the classroom and on a lawn.
Fly Fishing moved me from a hook and cook guy (30 years ago) to an activist for catch and release and even to care of the fisheries and organizing fly fishing clubs with conservation in mind.
I would only help with the caveat that names (people and places) be left out and all photos be taken with respect for the fish, the people and the places.
Send me a PM and maybe education can be the bridge to the respect that the Twins seem to be so desperate for.


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## UtahJax (Feb 18, 2012)

I agree with what some I you have said, fly fishing has taught me a new respect for fish and the waters they live in. Fly fishing has also taught me to be a little more respectfully of the people around me, a lesson I see that half of you don't have not learned . I am from the south and have not lived here very long so maybe I don't get your ways, but when someone asks for your help and advice and genuinely wants to learn why not help them? Maybe the fish aren't being held to your standard or maybe these guys spikes are to high for all you old timers, but remember these are YOUR standards and issues, no need to push it on everyone else. Most people will never know if you don't at least teach them a few tricks, but your " I am a fish god" complex makes you look like an @$&. I am know fly expert but I will gladly join you and teach you twins what I know.


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## JuddCT (Sep 7, 2007)

UtahJax said:


> I agree with what some I you have said, fly fishing has taught me a new respect for fish and the waters they live in. Fly fishing has also taught me to be a little more respectfully of the people around me, a lesson I see that half of you don't have not learned . I am from the south and have not lived here very long so maybe I don't get your ways, but when someone asks for your help and advice and genuinely wants to learn why not help them? Maybe the fish aren't being held to your standard or maybe these guys spikes are to high for all you old timers, but remember these are YOUR standards and issues, no need to push it on everyone else. Most people will never know if you don't at least teach them a few tricks, but your " I am a fish god" complex makes you look like an @$&. I am know fly expert but I will gladly join you and teach you twins what I know.


I find this a little funny. They can't get on their soap box and share criticism, but you can call people an a## and it is good? Too funny!

Truth is you gotta take all forms of criticism to change for the better as some people lay it on too light and others lay it on real thick. That said I'm willing to impart my fly fishing knowledge on anyone. But it will be at their spots, not mine.


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

Start here its the whole reason I created the thread. For people like you guys getting into it.....
http://UtahWildlife.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41501#p424203


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## UtahJax (Feb 18, 2012)

Your right I should use better wording, how about being a jerk is not cool? @ Judd I do agree with what you are saying about criticism, can't we all just fish and be merry? See you guys on the water


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## UtahJax (Feb 18, 2012)

Great info drsx, thanks for that


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## hamernhonkers (Sep 28, 2007)

PBH said:


> tye dye -- i actually thought Scotty gave you great advice. You don't need a coach. You don't need a teacher. Just go fishing. You will never catch a fish unless your fly is in the water.
> 
> Just like hunters, anglers go through some basic stages. They are NOT in any specific order, and none of them is the "best" one to be in. What you get out of fishing is different for all of us. If you look at someone like Chris30, he's a "trophy" stage guy. Tyedye is a "numbers" or "liimit" type of guy -- how many fish can he catch in a day? Now look at Scotty, who appears to me to be the "method" stage -- it's all about what kind of rod, what kind of fly, what kind of cast. Others may be in the "sportsman" stage, in which the methods, numbers, sizes, etc. don't matter, but enjoying the sport does.
> 
> ...


Good heavens the world must be coming to an end for me to say this but..........well put PBH!

It's funny how with time things change and people change. I remember when the fly fishermen was a rarity and most were out for peace and tranquility fishing off by themselves so they could enjoy nature and the quiet beauty it offered. Now days it seems to be more the opposite and for many new to the whipping stick is it a social spectacle and event to get together.

I can't say that I enjoy the new mentality of today's fly fishermen as a social event but one thing that seems to hold true is that they learn to appreciate and care for the sport and resource.

Here may be a golden opportunity to take these two individuals with whom many disagree with about their tactics and beliefs. You could go to neutral water and teach them a thing or two about fly fishing and many of the common practices and beliefs that go with it. Who knows, after a positive experience out fly fishing with someone experienced we may see I different or new side of them.

Good luck tyedye twins, I hope someone takes you up on your request and you have a good experience with the world of fly fishing.


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## dubob (Sep 8, 2007)

And just in case this thread isn't tickling your funny bone enough, check this out.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=41947

Enjoy!


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## BrookTroutKid (Oct 10, 2007)

Fly fishing is a blast but categorizing people that do it on a regular basis as revered fish gods who never ever do anything unethical while fishing or mistreat fish is ridiculous. I fish with just about everything and 99 % of the fish I catch go back in the water and are handled carefully. I say if they are looking for someone to teach them to fly fish then get of the dang Internet soapboxes and go fishing.


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## UtahJax (Feb 18, 2012)

+1 Brooktroutkid


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## drsx (Sep 8, 2010)

ORVIS makes an app for Android phones that is awesome! Literally has everything you need. Articles, videos, animations. Tons of flies close up pictures of them descriptions etc. Download it now!!!


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

UtahJax said:


> I agree with what some I you have said, fly fishing has taught me a new respect for fish and the waters they live in. Fly fishing has also taught me to be a little more respectfully of the people around me, a lesson I see that half of you don't have not learned . I am from the south and have not lived here very long so maybe I don't get your ways, but when someone asks for your help and advice and genuinely wants to learn why not help them? Maybe the fish aren't being held to your standard or maybe these guys spikes are to high for all you old timers, but remember these are YOUR standards and issues, no need to push it on everyone else. Most people will never know if you don't at least teach them a few tricks, but your " I am a fish god" complex makes you look like an @$&. I am know fly expert but I will gladly join you and teach you twins what I know.


I really wish you the best of luck. Your intention is admirable. I know the gentleman from the fish store that introduce one of the twins to fly fishing was thinking as you two.
But not at first. He was mad as heck because he is enjoying his day when two young men literaly crowd him because they were not doing so well. He took a deep breath as you two would, and thought, If I can teach them to fly fish, maybe they will learn a little respect. I too was excited about their interest in fly fishing. I was ready to teach them a little entomology, give them a furled leader, some flies and show them the slip indicator and chironomids.
In return, I asked that they please not add the name of Little Dell so much. Not to quit posting and the great pitures, just no name, like the other lake. This lake has protected Bon Cutts and they are not being treated as such.
I sincerely did not feel I was asking that much and was ready to help on the new journy. In return I have been called names you would not believe. So, I wish you much better success. It is a wonderful sport/hobbie/way of life.


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## tye dye twins (Mar 8, 2011)

madonafly said:


> I really wish you the best of luck. Your intention is admirable. I know the gentleman from the fish store that introduce one of the twins to fly fishing was thinking as you two.
> But not at first. He was mad as heck because he is enjoying his day when two young men literaly crowd him because they were not doing so well. He took a deep breath as you two would, and thought, If I can teach them to fly fish, maybe they will learn a little respect.......
> 
> ......I sincerely did not feel I was asking that much and was ready to help on the new journy. In return I have been called names you would not believe. So, I wish you much better success. It is a wonderful sport/hobbie/way of life.


WHAT??? Where you there that day? Did you talk to Sam? He was at Lower Bells and we were across the lake when he said, "hey twins how ya doing?" Opposites sides of that place, get it! We said our hellos and HE OFFERED to let us fish with him. In fact there was a 3rd guy there that he let be there right next to him too. How the heck do you figure he was mad? We never crowded him in, we were across the pond till he OFFERED to give us flies and what not!

We had a great day together and we have spoken on many ocassions at the shop. He is always trying to get me to convert. He took that opprotunity to do so at Bells. Stop trying to twist a story you were not even there for.

As for the nasty PMs isn't that the tea kettle calling the pot black! You started the name calling BTW in that round of PM's on BFT.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

tye dye twins said:


> madonafly said:
> 
> 
> > I really wish you the best of luck. Your intention is admirable. I know the gentleman from the fish store that introduce one of the twins to fly fishing was thinking as you two.
> ...


Right...whatever you say. You do have a reputation of being curtious and polite, so it must not be true...never mind guys. Good luck. If you have turned over a new life and are serious, I would still offer what help I can.

I do know Sam (remember, I have been FF for a few years) but I was going to leave his name off. He is a great guy isn't he. I would like to change that mad to more a surprise. I am going off his story, but you are right, I was not there. 
Your pm's were pretty nasty, but heck, only words.


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## EvilTyeDyeTwin (Aug 9, 2011)

madonafly said:


> tye dye twins said:
> 
> 
> > madonafly said:
> ...


So you were just assuming insted of actually talking to Sam...wow that says a ton about you madonfly....for the record he did OFFER us over to the inlet on the other side and OFFER some flys...in fact I PAID THE GUY FOR THE FLYS!!!!!!!!! When he would not take my money I placed it at his feet and said, "you take it cause I am not going to." In the corner of my eye I saw him take it by the way.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

I am sorry, I did edit my post while you were writing I guess. No assumption on my part, we had a nice long talk. But it was about many things.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Twins -- listen to yourselves for a moment.

Again, take a step back and look at things from a different angle. You've been given some very good advice -- however, the only posts you've put on this thread have been too defensive and combatant. Sometimes you need to take advice with a grain of salt. Both of you need to chill out a little. Maybe eat some humble pie. Realize that maybe you're not always in the right, and that maybe the advice you're getting might help you out both on the water, and off.

Look -- if Cliff can learn, then I truly believe that both of you can too. Good luck.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

If you really want to see what these two twins are about go to one of the other sights they frequent. Threatening to kick people's dogs, threatening to out people's spots and fish the out. Steward's they are not, and the last place you want these two is anywhere near your fishing holes.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Marty, you don't lie, but in all fairness, this isn't asking for a spot to fish but rather someone to teach them the art of fly fishing. But, not just anyone appearantly, it must be "real Flyfishermen". Shoes we just cannnot fill.
Oh you left the part out about pushing kids to the side or out running them to get your spot on the secret watering hole.

I do wish them all the luck and that they do find a comfortable spot in their lives.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

At one tine I would have offered to help or take them out. But the more I read and see, that won't happen. Best of luck though.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

Absolutely. I hope they can continue to fish as it does seem to fill their lives.


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

I had offered to help and have had PMs from them but I am now starting to wonder myself. I think I need to pray about it a bit! :  
The first bit of fly fishing advise I have is that you can not fly fish without a hat. If I do help that is where I would start. Hats are a must for serious fishin!


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

gunplay said:


> The first bit of fly fishing advise I have is that you can not fly fish without a hat. If I do help that is where I would start. Hats are a must for serious fishin!


Right! And it can't be any old scroungy ******* ball cap either. To be a *REAL* elitist fly fisher, it has to be either a stylish houndstooth fedora, or for hot days, a designer straw hat will do. The selected hat should always go well with the tweed jacket one should wear to really stand out from the riff-raff.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Catherder said:


> gunplay said:
> 
> 
> > The first bit of fly fishing advise I have is that you can not fly fish without a hat. If I do help that is where I would start. Hats are a must for serious fishin!
> ...


I don't fish w/o my Sage or Simms hat.


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## madonafly (Dec 27, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> Catherder said:
> 
> 
> > gunplay said:
> ...


OMG! You elitist snob!!! no Winston? Wassamadder witchu


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## gunplay (Apr 28, 2008)

I'm a fedora guy myself and the more worn it gets, the more I like it!


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

I thought that Fedora was Shreck's wife. :roll:


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## ScottyP (Sep 12, 2007)

It's Fiona silly!

I'm a ballcap guy myself. I'm currently using a cheap Hawaii ballcap I got in a Kmart in Oahu a couple years ago. I have a sage cap and a simms cap, both won in raffles at a flyfishing film expo years ago. I ruined my UOTF cap from years of use. Beenie anytime it is chilly 'cause I'm bald and my ears get cold. Sunblock is a must! Tweed jacket optional.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, I'll second the hat thing. More than once I've taken a weighted woolly bugger in the back of the head. 

As for thoughts, there are many ways to become a fly master, so I'm told. I certainly am not one. But I'm glad to pass on how I learned things. I picked up fly fishing when I was in college in Provo. Our apartment was right on the river, which made it really convienient. Anyway, when my wife would go to the library to study, I'd take my fly tying kit and go with her. I think I read every fly fishing book in the BYU library. I also check out every VHS the Provo library had on the subject as well. I read books on entomology and spent many hours in the river. Many of those hours, just watching fish. Many walking along in the river turning rocks over and inspecting things throughout the summer. I subscribed to 2-3 fly fishing/tying magazines (American Fly Tyer is still my favorite) and read as much as I could. The book study gave me the knowledge to know why to do certain things, while the river time let me apply that knowledge. Casting form to me is the easiest thing to learn. But it took time. It took work. It took practice. I still remember my first fish on a fly I tied - a 14 inch brown just above Bridal Veil Falls, from a seam with a Chamois Caddis on a hot July day.

Fly fishing streams, and preferably smaller streams is still my favorite. I've learned a lot through the years from friends and fishing buddies. Utahtu on the forum is a long time fishing friend and one of the best fly fishermen I've ever met. And we've had some great "half a hundred" kind of fishing days together. Its good to have good friends that are willing to share information and suggestions. It is a big help. 

But take the things you have learned from spin and bait fishing and learn to apply the same approaches to fly fishing. It will take you far. One of my favorite fly fishing authors is John Gierach. His books are just a series of fishing stories which makes them a nice read. But he interlaces enough advise, technique and approach into the stories that you'll learn as much from his books as you'll learn from fly fishing manuals. 

As for clothes - I'm not a tweed jacket kind of guy myself. But all fishing is done in long sleeve shirts these days. And my hat has a broad brim, sunglasses are polarized, and I usually only carry one small fly box any more. Though I have to admit, I have worn a tie to go fishing one more than one occasion. Why? Well, I wear a tie whenever I go to church! How is a fine day of fly fishing any different in worshiping God?

Good luck though guys. Keep it classy!


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## Fleigenbinder (Feb 3, 2010)

So, it seems what we have so far is a bunch of verbal abuse and some wise advice in this thread. Instead of that, why not use the oppurtunity to help these guys. If you disagree with some aspect of their ethics, wouldn't that create a "teaching moment"? Have any of you actually met these people? If they are as bad as some say, I can not think of anyone more teacher worthy than them. 

I'll be meeting them next week. I am going to teach them my special gill ripping technique! I will teach them how to torture and abuse trout. Lesson one will be "How to ruin a good fishing spot" Lesson two will be "The history of fish torture 2000 Bce to the present." Once we have gone through that, we will move to the finer points of flyfishing;

How to be a jerk, snob and bigot using a fly fishing forum.

Now thats flyfishing!


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## Grandpa D (Sep 7, 2007)

This thread has met it's end.
Good night.


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