# Higher draw weights and shoulder injuries?



## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Do any of you guys have any shoulder problems as a direct result of archery? When I first started bow hunting a few years ago, I shot my bow at 65 to 70 pounds because my noob self just thought that that's what you HAD to have. I do a lot of lurking and a little posting on archerytalk, and I have seen a fairly common theme of middle-age to older guys who shot 70 + pound bows for years and now with their buggered up shoulders they are shooting 50-60 pound bows while giving up next to nothing in on game performance and wishing they would have made the switch a long time ago. I've done a little research and learned that rotator cuff injuries, tendonitis and tennis elbow are common problems among competitive archers, serious bow hunters, and others who shoot a high volume of arrows.

With this knowledge I decided to err on the side of caution and turn my bow down to 60 pounds. It is a sweetheart to shoot. When you look at how much speed/ke it takes to kill big game with a bow and what these new rigs are producing it seems to me there is little reason to shoot a high poundage bow now unless you wanna take the long shots or try to push a two inch cut mechanical through an elk. I'm thinking if/when I ever decide to get a new bow I will get one with 50-60 pound limbs and set it at 55 or even get a 40-50 pound bow and max it out at 50 if it has a pretty decent IBO speed. A 400 grain arrow at 250 to 260 fps yields 55 to 60 ft lbs of ke which seems like it should be plenty for me. Especially if it is paired with a quality, efficient broadhead like a magnus.


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## widget22 (Mar 10, 2016)

I have actually been thinking about this recently also. I'm younger at 28 and feel like Im in peak fitness, but last week I shot my bow 2 days after a shoulder workout and realized just how much tension and strain you put on those muscles when shooting a bow. I typically shoot closer to the 70# but dialed it back to about 62# and even after my shoulder recovered from the workout it feels much better. easier and smoother draw. the release is much crisper and i honestly had more fun shooting my bow at the lower draw weight. The bow still shoots about 263 fps. I havent weighed my current arrow to calculate ke but I feel confident in the rig as it. I dont think I'll be dialing it back up anytime soon


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## Old Fudd (Nov 24, 2007)

I Think most guy and Gals over bow. Usually struggle to get to full draw. Arching their backs ,, hunching their shoulders. To much bow makes for some really poor form, and a great way to screw up your Back.. Shoulders..And flat wear a person out when they practice..Iam still a firm believer that there isn't an animal in North America including Elk and Moose that can't be brought down with a well placed arrow. SHARP> SHARP> SUPER SHARP Broadhead .I prefer a fix Blade. But thats just me, I'am over 70, Humped and hauled heavy freight my entire life. Have had bad shoulder forever.. and still huntig. If I Can draw one of the dumb A-- Tags.


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## kdog (May 4, 2015)

I am shooting at 67 pounds but have had simialr thoughts. I am thinking about moving closer to 60 as well. have not done it yet as then I gotta make a new tape and such and my bow is tuned so well as it is, but I could shoot more arrows and enjoy it more...


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

kdog said:


> I am shooting at 67 pounds but have had simialr thoughts. I am thinking about moving closer to 60 as well. have not done it yet as then I gotta make a new tape and such and my bow is tuned so well as it is, but I could shoot more arrows and enjoy it more...


I just had some new arrows cut for my lighter setup. Some 400 spine Bemans cut to 26.5 inches. With a 125 grain point I'm sitting right at 400 grains. I've shot a few rounds with them in the backyard. My next order of business is to get my QAD drop away mounted and the bow tuned to my new arrows. I can't wait to get some magnus stingers to screw in and see how they fly for me. Then hopefully get the opportunity to run one through a nice buck or bull come August-September!


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

I have always drawn a 45 lb recurve bow since college daze, and it has never given me any problems.

When I have tried 50 lbs it was impossible to hold the pin steady with a recurve.

With the compound bows, I have never had any trouble pulling through 65 lbs as well. In that case 70 lbs exceeded my comfort level. And naturally these bows drop down as much as 80% so a 65 lb compound is really about 15 lb.

And 15 lbs is what my first bow was at age 10.

No shoulder problems ever.

I am guessing that shoulder problems probably come from drawing too much weight over a long period of time.

The modern compound bows are tricky and they can fool you. If you can draw them without ever having the string slip off your fingers, then you can get away with it.

Everyone has different limits. You just need to find yours.

If your shoulder hurts, then you most likely need to drop down in draw weight.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Old Fudd said:


> I Think most guy and Gals over bow. Usually struggle to get to full draw. Arching their backs ,, hunching their shoulders. To much bow makes for some really poor form, and a great way to screw up your Back.. Shoulders..And flat wear a person out when they practice..Iam still a firm believer that there isn't an animal in North America including Elk and Moose that can't be brought down with a well placed arrow. SHARP> SHARP> SUPER SHARP Broadhead .I prefer a fix Blade. But thats just me, I'am over 70, Humped and hauled heavy freight my entire life. Have had bad shoulder forever.. and still huntig. If I Can draw one of the dumb A-- Tags.


Exactly right !!


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

Not saying this is an example of the OP but I see it over and over with archers. If you can't draw a bow back sitting on a bucket without excessive movment your over bowed!

Think about this my daughters bow with a 24" draw, 40 lbs and 350 grain arrows can take deer out to 40 yards and still get full pass throughs. This means anything else is just putting the Kenitic Energy in the dirt.

I honestly believe form and shot placment prevails over Kenitic Energy. Ive coached kids for over 10 years and shot archery leagues for 15 years. The kids and adults that have poor form can't hit a dot dot at 18 meters consistantly. Their scores are always the lowest in leagues. Their bows are always the fastest and their arrows are the hardest to pull out of the guts on a foam 3d targets. Ive heard all sorts of excuses including my favorite "I always get my buck but I don't know why I can't hit the foam targets." These same shooters usually wont even try a dot league. The ones that do struggle and quit.

If they would simply lower their draw weight and get some help with their form they would see improvements in score. The game they shoot would also have shorter blood trails. Imho there isn't a magic bow lb that will get you through a leg bone of a deer or an elk and any bow will shoot through the guts. So pick a bow you can shoot comfortably and accurately. 



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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

swbuckmaster said:


> Not saying this is an example of the OP but I see it over and over with archers. If you can't draw a bow back sitting on a bucket without excessive movment your over bowed!
> 
> Think about this my daughters bow with a 24" draw, 40 lbs and 350 grain arrows can take deer out to 40 yards and still get full pass throughs. This means anything else is just putting the Kenitic Energy in the dirt.
> 
> ...


Once in awhile I see guys at the range struggling to draw their bows standing up and I know for a fact that they wouldn't pass the draw your bow sitting down test. At least not without looking silly. I want to give them some friendly advice that they would enjoy things a lot more if they turned their bows down. It's already pretty crushing to a guys ego to let him know that he doesn't know what he's doing, let alone insult his physical strength by telling him he needs a lighter draw weight, so I usually just keep quiet and let them struggle haha. I know what you mean about the wasted ke thing. I've seen my wife run a 360 grain arrow at 216 fps (37 ft lbs ke) in one side of a nice buck and out the other at 45 yards. When I hear guys bragging about their 60, 70, and 80 ft lbs of ke producing bows I just have to roll my eyes.


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

I am not disagreeing with the bow weight discussion here, in fact, I am a big guy and have shot 70 lbs for ever. I too have turned down my bow weight to 65 lbs on my Answer and 62 on my GT500. Comfort has become more important. (yeah, I am getting older... 63 in February) It is not the holding weight that has become uncomfortable, but the drawing weight. Since doing so, I have seen no increase in point scoring. Perhaps because I shoot well enough. What I wanted to comment on was the ability to hit what you are aiming at. 

I shot in a 3-d league one year and I was stacking my arrows against each other (2 shot per target league) and one guy said to me, "you don't have to shoot that good to kill a deer. There are no bull's eye on the side of a deer". Another guy told me about people who he worked with who shot in a spot league and were excellent marksmen, but when they got on the 3-d course, did extremely poor. They put spots on the deer targets and they outshot everyone. I have known archers who are the same, can hit a red dot, but can't hit a 10 on a 3-d target without a spot. My conclusion is that many people just don't know the anatomy of their quarry and don't know where to aim. They are probably hitting where they aim, just are aiming at the wrong place. So, is that a result of over bowed and can't hold on target? I think not in many cases.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

bow_dude said:


> I am not disagreeing with the bow weight discussion here, in fact, I am a big guy and have shot 70 lbs for ever. I too have turned down my bow weight to 65 lbs on my Answer and 62 on my GT500. Comfort has become more important. (yeah, I am getting older... 63 in February) It is not the holding weight that has become uncomfortable, but the drawing weight. Since doing so, I have seen no increase in point scoring. Perhaps because I shoot well enough. What I wanted to comment on was the ability to hit what you are aiming at.
> 
> I shot in a 3-d league one year and I was stacking my arrows against each other (2 shot per target league) and one guy said to me, "you don't have to shoot that good to kill a deer. There are no bull's eye on the side of a deer". Another guy told me about people who he worked with who shot in a spot league and were excellent marksmen, but when they got on the 3-d course, did extremely poor. They put spots on the deer targets and they outshot everyone. I have known archers who are the same, can hit a red dot, but can't hit a 10 on a 3-d target without a spot. My conclusion is that many people just don't know the anatomy of their quarry and don't know where to aim. They are probably hitting where they aim, just are aiming at the wrong place. So, is that a result of over bowed and can't hold on target? I think not in many cases.


It is strange shooting at dark furry bodies without a spot on them.

You have to keep both eyes open.

3-D shoots are the best practice for hunting.


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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

bow_dude said:


> I am not disagreeing with the bow weight discussion here, in fact, I am a big guy and have shot 70 lbs for ever. I too have turned down my bow weight to 65 lbs on my Answer and 62 on my GT500. Comfort has become more important. (yeah, I am getting older... 63 in February) It is not the holding weight that has become uncomfortable, but the drawing weight. Since doing so, I have seen no increase in point scoring. Perhaps because I shoot well enough. What I wanted to comment on was the ability to hit what you are aiming at.
> 
> I shot in a 3-d league one year and I was stacking my arrows against each other (2 shot per target league) and one guy said to me, "you don't have to shoot that good to kill a deer. There are no bull's eye on the side of a deer". Another guy told me about people who he worked with who shot in a spot league and were excellent marksmen, but when they got on the 3-d course, did extremely poor. They put spots on the deer targets and they outshot everyone. I have known archers who are the same, can hit a red dot, but can't hit a 10 on a 3-d target without a spot. My conclusion is that many people just don't know the anatomy of their quarry and don't know where to aim. They are probably hitting where they aim, just are aiming at the wrong place. So, is that a result of over bowed and can't hold on target? I think not in many cases.


I've always heard to pick out a very specific spot in the kill zone and to aim for that. It's something I plan on doing from now on. Last year I had my bull elk at 18 yards and while I'm no Levi Morgan, I'm plenty capable of pretty decent accuracy at 18 yards. However, I ended up making a pretty lousy hit on this elk. It was much higher up and further back than I wanted but with the angle of the shot it exited in a very good spot. Apparently the broadhead got a lot of good stuff because the bull went down within sight and was dead very quickly.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

colorcountrygunner said:


> I've always heard to pick out a very specific spot in the kill zone and to aim for that. It's something I plan on doing from now on. Last year I had my bull elk at 18 yards and while I'm no Levi Morgan, I'm plenty capable of pretty decent accuracy at 18 yards. However, I ended up making a pretty lousy hit on this elk. It was much higher up and further back than I wanted but with the angle of the shot it exited in a very good spot. Apparently the broadhead got a lot of good stuff because the bull went down within sight and was dead very quickly.


18 yds beats my record of 22. Bravo!


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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Color... off subject... but one thing that the 3-d has taught me is at close range, you have to use a different pin. I missed a beautiful 4 pt buck one year at 10 yards. Couldn't figure out how for many years. I placed the 20 yard pin on it and missed. I should have used the 30 yard pin or maybe the 40 and I would have hit it. That one haunted me for years.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

At 10 yards your 20 will hit about an inch high. You simply missed

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## colorcountrygunner (Oct 6, 2009)

bow_dude said:


> Color... off subject... but one thing that the 3-d has taught me is at close range, you have to use a different pin. I missed a beautiful 4 pt buck one year at 10 yards. Couldn't figure out how for many years. I placed the 20 yard pin on it and missed. I should have used the 30 yard pin or maybe the 40 and I would have hit it. That one haunted me for years.


Did you miss over or under him? It seems counter-intuitive to me that you would use your 30 or 40 yard pin for 10 yard shots. It seems like if anything you should use your 20 yard pin, but just hold it lower. I don't claim to know everything though. I will have to try it out.


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## swbuckmaster (Sep 14, 2007)

If you start using your 30 and 40 yard pin at 10 yards your going to shoot over the buck or spine it. 

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## bow_dude (Aug 20, 2009)

Depends on the bow and the arrow speed. It will vary. i could have even been 5 yards. He walked between me and the other side of the Juniper tree. I know that at the 3-d shoots when we shoot the carp targets from an elevated stand, I generally have to use the 50 yard pin. One thing for sure... I did miss. I searched for hours and found no blood in any direction for a long ways.


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## ISHY (Dec 4, 2015)

I did the 80# thing when I was younger for a couple seasons and thought I did some damage...but I did my first Ironman at 40 years old this year and I'd say if I can swim 2.4 my shoulder is still holding out pretty good. I shoot 60 now and shoot much better and get plenty penetration for everything.

I learned from lots of missed grouse under 10 yards to shoot my 40 yard pin and I do a lot better. Try it out and you'll see.


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