# The Death of the GSL



## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Well here it is in my hot little hands! Just wanting to pass information along to you folks. Talked with a friend of mine who has been to 5 meetings that have this on the agenda. Looks like a the Utah Division of Water Resources (DWRe) are pretty serious about this!!! What say you?



















*** For the love of God please keep the partisan politics out of this!!! you want to do that take it to a different thread/forum***


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## amrich17 (Jan 19, 2015)

What would that mean for the brbr


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

The proposed Weber Bay is apparently top on the list. So that means you can say good bye to the east side of the spur, also Unit 5 of the BRBR would be toast according to the proposal. Water would be diverted to fill these reservoirs which robs the lake from getting it. that in turn would drop the lake level even further. it will affect a host of different things. This has a potential for a environmental fight of epic proportions.


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## amrich17 (Jan 19, 2015)

Shoot hope it doesn't go through


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

Sure makes you want to go buy a $40,000+ Airboat with all the bells & whistles doesn't it?


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Ha! Jerry- As most airboaters know...it is tough to run a boat on dry dirt!

King - This proposal was discussed in a previous thread about SB 281 that put $5 million into a fund for building the Bear River Project and a pipeline from the Colorado River to St George. Hey, what's several *BILLION* dollars among friends right? They get this nonsense passed by our (elected) intellectual giants in the legislature because they LOVE spending taxpayer money on projects that help their friends. The big water conservancy districts justify their existence by always proposing and building more infrastructure and needing more property tax money. It is easier to spend our money on huge projects than to propose common-sense laws that allow for water conservation, agricultural diversion, and true water pricing. It's pretty embarrassing really...and it will destroy our GSL wetlands.
R


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

rjefre said:


> Ha! Jerry- As most airboaters know...it is tough to run a boat on dry dirt!
> 
> R


Tough sure, but doable with a little creativity










Sad facts are we have too many people, too many water needs and not enough water. Somethings gotta give.

-DallanC


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

rjefre said:


> Ha! Jerry- As most airboaters know...it is tough to run a boat on dry dirt!
> 
> King - This proposal was discussed in a previous thread about SB 281 that put $5 million into a fund for building the Bear River Project and a pipeline from the Colorado River to St George. Hey, what's several *BILLION* dollars among friends right? They get this nonsense passed by our (elected) intellectual giants in the legislature because they LOVE spending taxpayer money on projects that help their friends. The big water conservancy districts justify their existence by always proposing and building more infrastructure and needing more property tax money. It is easier to spend our money on huge projects than to propose common-sense laws that allow for water conservation, agricultural diversion, and true water pricing. It's pretty embarrassing really...and it will destroy our GSL wetlands.
> R


I hear ya R! Our water pricing needs to have a structure overhaul. I've seen 3 folks in the neighborhood watering the bluegrass already. To me it just seems simple steps on the conservation side both rural and agriculture could go a long way. How many farmers still flood irrigate? There's got to be a way to assist them to sprinkler. Time for folks to give up on the green water guzzling grass....


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

So let's do some postulating:

Current GSL Elevation: 4194.1 (many think it has already topped out this year)

GSL drops on average 2-3 ft per year from its annual high elevation.

Models are showing the GSL in a downward elevation trend until 2017 at the earliest. NOAA is now predicting above to significantly above average temperatures in Utah for the next 12 months.

When the new GSL breech is opened in the causeway, another 0.5 to 1.5 ft will be lost to the North Arm as the two bodies equalize.

So if I am conservative and GSL loses just 2 ft each year over the next 2 years + 1 ft when the causeway is opened, then it loses another 5ft to an elevation of 4189.

At this elevation, the Ogden Bay waterfowlers could plan to drive their ATV's out to the west side of Fremont Island to set up their dekes. Who knows, they could also have a chance to shoot a Mouflon or hog if any stay on the island.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

glad I lost the duck hunting itch cause it ain't gonna last. I can't imagine what lake levels will look like in 20 years.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Yep, and we will all need a boat like the one that DallanC posted...except it is illegal to drive a vehicle on the lake bed. Looks like we are going to be in a tight spot. 
Unfortunately, our wetlands are *not* a priority to our leaders (?), and waterfowlers have yet to get together enough voices to be heard. For now, the only real defender of our GSL wetlands has been the *Friends of Great Salt Lake.* FOGSL is not specifically focused on waterfowlers though, and although they do a truly awesome job, we need more voices from folks like us that enjoy waterfowling on the GSL wetlands. In the meantime, you can bet that FOGSL will be defending the Willard Spur ...again.
I'm open to suggestions...
R


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

utahgolf said:


> glad I lost the duck hunting itch cause it ain't gonna last. I can't imagine what lake levels will look like in 20 years.


Ya'all see that highwater mark on the benches around the Salt Lake Valley? Water levels change, it always has, always will.

I remember growing up and driving I-15 south of Provo when Utah Lake was so high it was actually covering I-15 by a couple inches. Sure its fine to plan for lowered levels but lets not be so dramatic about things we end up with some system we may not need like those GSL pumps we used for one whole year when the GSL was so high.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

In the 61 years that I have been around I have watched the water levels of the Great Salt Lake and Utah Lake go up and down. I remember almost being able to walk across Mud Lake from the Provo Airport to Spanish Fork in some years and other have so much water that it was hard to actually fish. One of the best things that they ever did was build I-15 with the slag out of Geneva were the water would flow from one side to the other with no problems. I also remember the drought years of the late 70's and early 80's where people were saying that it would take 30 years to get all the water back to where it was suppose to be. Then came the winter of 82-83 and there was so much water they didn't know where to put it all. 

You just need to remember that even if they build new reservoirs the water will still need to flow downhill in the end and end up in a lake somewhere. Now if they were diverting the water from the Wasatch Front over to the Green River drainage then that would be cause to worry.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

I hope you guys are right but these fluctuations need to start fluctuating on the wet side of things soon! a few years of crazy mild temps and this now being the 2nd driest year on record and the front is absolutely exploding with people.


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Oh if only the water boys would just let it flow naturally down hill to the Lake. Unfortunately, all the water is over-allocated and the Great Salt Lake is not allowed to be classified as a "beneficial use", so we defy nature and divert the flows...the Lake (and waterfowlers) will lose in a very unnatural way.
R


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

rjefre said:


> .the Lake (and waterfowlers) will lose in a very unnatural way.
> R


 And waterfowl, shore birds, and birds of prey will all lose as well.

It's tough to get waterfowlers all on the same page, there's so many different groups amongst us competing to get recruits for their organizations. It would be fantastic if there was one organization in Utah that truly represented waterfowlers, and one that all waterfowlers would support to achieve common goals and interests in our state.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> And waterfowl, shore birds, and birds of prey will all lose as well.
> 
> It's tough to get waterfowlers all on the same page, there's so many different groups amongst us competing to get recruits for their organizations. It would be fantastic if there was one organization in Utah that truly represented waterfowlers, and one that all waterfowlers would support to achieve common goals and interests in our state.


well it'd help if one of those waterfowlers was a billionaire. Only way the people on the hill would care.


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## brookieguy1 (Oct 14, 2008)

utahgolf said:


> I hope you guys are right but these fluctuations need to start fluctuating on the wet side of things soon! a few years of crazy mild temps and this now being the 2nd driest year on record and the front is absolutely exploding with people.


I know. How can we make Utah look less desirable to all these newcomers? I mean we got all the hard to look at folks south of Cabelas, and the snotty arrogant folk up north. What's the appeal?;-)


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Fox News Utah did a really good story on the lake and whats going on. Its worth a watch.

http://fox13now.com/2014/11/03/what-lurks-beneath-the-great-salt-lake/

http://fox13now.com/2014/09/16/officials-debate-over-possible-constuction-of-new-dams-reservoirs/


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

brookieguy1 said:


> I know. How can we make Utah look less desirable to all these newcomers? I mean we got all the hard to look at folks south of Cabelas, and the snotty arrogant folk up north. What's the appeal?;-)


the friendly drivers here?


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## Finnegan (Sep 7, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> And waterfowl, shore birds, and birds of prey will all lose as well.
> 
> It's tough to get waterfowlers all on the same page, there's so many different groups amongst us competing to get recruits for their organizations. It would be fantastic if there was one organization in Utah that truly represented waterfowlers, and one that all waterfowlers would support to achieve common goals and interests in our state.


Agreed, but there isn't one. So maybe a solution can be found in collaboration between various stakeholders and user groups. Waterfowlers don't need to stand alone.

Conservation in Utah is facing an uphill battle that will require information, money and man hours. None of our orgs have enough. Pooling resources seems only practical.


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## #1DEER 1-I (Sep 10, 2007)

This quotes says it best:

“This country has been swinging the hammer of development so long and so hard that it has forgotten the anvil of wilderness which gave value and significance to its labors. The momentum of our blows is so unprecedented that the remaining remnant of wilderness will be pounded into road-dust long before we find out its values.”


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I agree that ALL of us that enjoy this sport need come together on this topic to protect our waterfowling future! 

I wonder what the big money waterfowl clubs will do if the water levels continue to decline..


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Gee LeDouche said:


> I wonder what the big money waterfowl clubs will do if the water levels continue to decline..


Probably push for a reduction in public marsh water and divert it over to their clubs.


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

The overriding principle is conservation. On the phrag thread I spoke about creating a conservation scorecard for our legislature both individually and collectively. I spoke to Dave Pacheco at SUWA this morning, they don't do this because of their 501-C3 status. He referred me to the Utah chapter of the Sierra Club. They apparently already do this stuff. I"m waiting for a call back and will start a new thread.

The truth is that hunters and fishermen need to join together, stand beside all the other conservation groups and make our voices heard. Lots of guys living in rural areas are outdoorsmen. They need to speak up and counterbalance the small minded politicians like Noel in Kanab who are only in it to benefit themselves and their cronies, usually by exploiting our natural resources. If we don't stand up and work for change, the current trend will continue.


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## JerryH (Jun 17, 2014)

I wonder what the big money waterfowl clubs will do if the water levels continue to decline. 

Fortunately some of the south shore clubs have some of the oldest water shares in the State. If not for the clubs maybe there would a lot less water flowing into the lake.


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

JerryH said:


> I wonder what the big money waterfowl clubs will do if the water levels continue to decline.
> 
> Fortunately some of the south shore clubs have some of the oldest water shares in the State. If not for the clubs maybe there would a lot less water flowing into the lake.


That's great,, however What about the millionaire club and all the clubs out near BRBR?


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## king eider (Aug 20, 2009)

Water shares side of this is going to be interesting to watch it play out. Years with less water to go around and lower snow pack levels your rights are smaller and smaller to your share of water. Any fight for the lake will take a concerted effort on behalf of those who want to protect it. sad thing is most folks along the front dont see the lake as a good thing. Its just something that is out there. very few have ever been on a boat out on the lake. its an uphill battle. folks along the front still want to water the lawn and act like the river can always give them water.....


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## ted (Oct 22, 2011)

king eider said:


> folks along the front still want to water the lawn and act like the river can always give them water.....


Wonder how long it'll take for those rivers to dry up once we start losing the lake effect snow in the winters?


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Wait until the dust from the dry lakebed starts causing illnesses then you will have peoples attention.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Who's to say it hasnt already?


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Fowlmouth said:


> Wait until the dust from the dry lakebed starts causing illnesses then you will have peoples attention.


Speaking of Dust, How much of the dust from the dryer GSL lake bed caused the accident yesterday or had an effect on the 25 car pile up on 1-80? How much of that gunk did we breath in yesterday?

Water conservation is a MUST for the wasatch front in dry years. My Opinion is to make cities and compainies responsible and pay heftier fines for miss manage of water during summer hours. But in the same breath I dont want the city to think that they are better than the residence and issues fines when they themselves cannot manage their consumption.

We NEED to ALL do our part since water from the font all ends up at GSL... Less water we use on our lawns will find its way to the GSL...


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

Fowlmouth said:


> Wait until the dust from the dry lakebed starts causing illnesses then you will have peoples attention.


It won't work. Our politicians will just say "Lake bed dust? It won't hurt you. In fact, it's good for you, so breath deeply."


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## rjefre (Sep 8, 2007)

Here is a quote from a KSL article about the GSL the other day--
*"I'm not aware that we have significant dust problems right now, even though the lake is down considerably," said Eric Millus, director of the Utah Division of Water Resources.*

Apparently he has never looked out his window during ANY storm that blows into the valley...
R


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

:-?

... oh so we should just wait around until we do have a "signifigant" problem then?


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

Random Question.... Does frag use alot more water than native vegitation? I have noticed that cattails and alkaline bullrush seem to have as much water instead the plant when cutting them or breaking them a little. Frag seems to use a lot of water so out of interest I wonder if they are also using up more water and in turn having it evaporate at a higher level.

Just wondering...


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

rjefre said:


> Here is a quote from a KSL article about the GSL the other day--
> *"I'm not aware that we have significant dust problems right now, even though the lake is down considerably," said Eric Millus, director of the Utah Division of Water Resources.*
> 
> Apparently he has never looked out his window during ANY storm that blows into the valley...
> R


Living in south davis county and day that has a 10mph wind if you look out towards antelope island you can see the dust storms across the dry lake bed. He needs to open his eyes.


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

tallbuck said:


> He needs to open his eyes.


he can't because of the dust, remember.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Get rid of all the golf courses! What do you think utahgolf?


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2010)

Fowlmouth said:


> Get rid of all the golf courses! What do you think utahgolf?


Salt lake County is already moving forward on that idea....


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Fowlmouth said:


> Get rid of all the golf courses! What do you think utahgolf?


I'd be ok with scrapping a few. They are already axing glendale and wingpoint will be next. I do think they need to move to more desert style course design though. Fairway to desert. No rough! you miss the fairway, than you are going to pay the penalty of dinging up your clubs! I do hate though seeing people with their sprinklers on everywhere, I hope they are regretting it now. We need to completely re think the way we use water. Having a green lawn is a joke and such a waste. Tax credits for those that xeriscape their lawns.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

utahgolf said:


> I'd be ok with scrapping a few. They are already axing glendale and wingpoint will be next. I do think they need to move to more desert style course design though. Fairway to desert. No rough! you miss the fairway, than you are going to pay the penalty of dinging up your clubs! I do hate though seeing people with their sprinklers on everywhere, I hope they are regretting it now. We need to completely re think the way we use water. Having a green lawn is a joke and such a waste. Tax credits for those that xeriscape their lawns.


I drove past a clinic in Provo yesterday that had their sprinklers on at 12:30 in the afternoon.....while it was snowing. I'm sure it was just an oversight, but there does not seem to be enough of a legal or financial deterrent for people to pay better attention to what they are doing with the water we all share.....


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Yep I was on my way to work yesterday and somebody had their sprinklers watering the 4 inches of snow covering their lawn. Thats a bit disturbing


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

utahgolf said:


> I'd be ok with scrapping a few. They are already axing glendale and wingpoint will be next. I do think they need to move to more desert style course design though. Fairway to desert. No rough! you miss the fairway, than you are going to pay the penalty of dinging up your clubs! I do hate though seeing people with their sprinklers on everywhere, I hope they are regretting it now. We need to completely re think the way we use water. Having a green lawn is a joke and such a waste. Tax credits for those that xeriscape their lawns.


Glendale?one of the better courses money making there is.Wingpoint,dont know why they ever built it.Rosepark?Maybe.We have been planting drought tolerating plants for 3 years.


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