# helicopter assisted elk hunt..What the @^%$??



## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

I just heard from an inside source at the Division that someone was just caught using a helicopter to assist in their Elk hunt on the Pahvant. Does anyone know anything about this or have run into this while out hunting. I drew a Pahvant archery elk tag this year but I haven't seen anyone using a helicopter but I've only been down there on the weekends so far. I'm going to hunt the last two weeks of the hunt down there and I hope I don't run into any of this kind of activity.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

I heard the same thing from my sister's neighbor's hairdresser's UPS man's best friend's son's teacher's husband who drives by the DWR regularly (basically an inside source too). :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: just kidding, this same stupid rumor is tossed around several times a year; if it happened, shame shame, but it seems to be all rumors that get tossed around fairly regularly, how would they even catch such a person even if it did happen?


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

Funny you brought this up because last weekend i was hunting around the 'Berry and sat and watched a helicopter with two guys in it fly up and down each finger and canyon about 20-40 feet above the trees at a very slow speed, almost a hover. It was a blue and yellow smaller helicopter. Now that was enought to piss me off in the first place as it's about an hour and a half hike in from any surrounding road to where i was at, and then to have this whirly bird screw my morning hunt over was a little irritating. Anyone else seen this same helicopter? Hunters? F&G? My guess would be someone with a LE Elk Tag trying to find em a goodin. I could see the guys in the ****pit plain as day as they flew close enough to throw rocks at them and i did not see any F&G uniformed officers. If it was hunters scouting or hunting none the less is this legal? Scouting during the hunting season in that manner ruins it for those already in field hunting.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Just a couple of thoughts on this. First, scouting an area with a chopper is counter productive. If you get low enough to actually land it, the game will take off before you can. 

But more importantly - as hunters, we see everything from a hunting perspective. The fact of the matter is, most airspace is what is called class E or Class G - meaning unregulated (depends on altitude above the ground). (Airspace over designated wilderness an national parks is a different matter.) Aircraft can pretty much do what they want in these areas. They can train. They can be checking out a fire, or livestock, or you name it. They can be on a search and rescue operation, or they can do scenic flying, or even thrill flying. And that is independent of all hunting seasons. 

Hunters are regulated, in how soon you can hunt after flying an area. Even if you are on the ground with an "eye in the sky", it isn't going to help any more/less than a spotter on the ground. Just because a helicopter or airplane is in the sky near where we are hunting, does not mean it doesn't have a right to be there, or isn't doing other things. Its crazy what general aviation folks will do to get their rocks off - like the group that Rulon Gardiner is part of that crashed their plane in Lake Powell a couple years back because they were skimming the water with their landing gear. They weren't trying to tick off the fishermen - they were out after the thrill of it all. And nearly died because of it. All I'm saying is we can't be so quick to jump to anyone in an aircraft are there to cheat the hunt, or ruin our hunt. Truth is, most are oblivious a hunt is even happening.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

honkerfool said:


> Funny you brought this up because last weekend i was hunting around the 'Berry and sat and watched a helicopter with two guys in it fly up and down each finger and canyon about 20-40 feet above the trees at a very slow speed, almost a hover. It was a blue and yellow smaller helicopter. Now that was enought to **** me off in the first place as it's about an hour and a half hike in from any surrounding road to where i was at, and then to have this whirly bird screw my morning hunt over was a little irritating. Anyone else seen this same helicopter? Hunters? F&G? My guess would be someone with a LE Elk Tag trying to find em a goodin. I could see the guys in the ****pit plain as day as they flew close enough to throw rocks at them and i did not see any F&G uniformed officers. If it was hunters scouting or hunting none the less is this legal? Scouting during the hunting season in that manner ruins it for those already in field hunting.


That would peave anyone off, I must ask; did the arrow stick or clean through?


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

I understand that not everyone is hunting or scouting but the way they were doing what they were doing looked as if they were definetely lookin for something. Who knows? But the reason i guess i'm so suspicious is it has happened in this area before.



> That would peave anyone off, I must ask; did the arrow stick or clean through?


 :lol: I can't say that didn't cross my mind :wink:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

It was me, I was trying to chase the monsters on the Berry to Dutton. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying!


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

ahh hell pro...land the bird, lasso a bull and ride him down to the dutton _(O)_ 


hey, you shooting the goldtips or did you decide to go with the XX75's??


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Longgun said:


> ahh hell pro...land the bird, lasso a bull and ride him down to the dutton _(O)_
> 
> hey, you shooting the goldtips or did you decide to go with the XX75's??


I thought about riding one down there, but I'm afraid my back would give out. 

I went back to the trusty XX78 2317's. They seem to fly better than my Goldtips with my muzzy 125 3-blades. If I could have got the Epek broadheads I would have stuck with the carbons.

I love reading/hearing all the rumors out there, good comedy. Better than Area 51 stories.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

The source that told me about this works for the division of wildlife and it isn't just a rumor. He didn't know all the details himself but he is a volunteer for the poacher hotline so he is a credible source. He said that someone wrote down the helicopter license number and also witnessed someone getting out of the helicopter and jumping on a 4 wheeler to go after someone. I know it isn't illegal to fly a helicopter in the mountains but people that use them to hunt shouldn't call themselves hunters. If it affects hunters on public lands like honkerfool and anybody else to that regard it shouldn't be allowed. When hunting on public lands the playing field should be equal and everyone should have to play by the same rules. I've had helicopters buzz me while hunting before and it indeed messed my hunting up for that day. Using a helicopter is a huge advantage no matter how you put it.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Helicopters can be an asset I agree, but I don't know of anyone using them for hunting purposes. :? It just cracks me up all the rumors that come from 'good sources' that just seem to never pan out. I talked with a couple of guides on the Monroe yesterday, the stories they tell of all the hysteria is comical. Some folks should be in Hollywood writing action movies with their vivid imaginations.


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## legacy (Sep 30, 2007)

There was a chute plane flying around my house last week. Seen it firsthand!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Alright, I'll come clean. We spotted the two spikes we killed last weekend from said chopper. We even shot one before the heli even hit the ground. What a rush.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Your right it's probably just another rumor. I guess it just got me going because I have a LE archery elk tag down there right now. I thought that if it were true then I'd probably get some answers from the forum. Has this rumor already been floating around? Well I guess in the end we all have to live with ourselves so if it makes you happy and its legal then have at it.. :wink:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Congrats on having a great tag, I have one for just south on the Dutton.

Here is a suggestion, if you see such activity, PLEASE video it, or at least take a couple of pictures of it. That way it will stop, and you would be the biggest hero ever in the Utah hunting circle! I lost count weeks ago on the rumors flying around about that area. I had no idea there were that many old women that cared so much about hunting. Rumors with a shred of PROOF are dangerous and childish. When will people GROW UP and produce PROOF/EVIDENCE before making the accusations?

Good luck on your hunt, I hope you kill spidey! That would be awesome! 8)


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## FishlakeElkHunter (Sep 11, 2007)

What people may not know right now is there is a TON of helicopters running all over Sevier County right now with the oil rigs!!! They are doing work on the Monroe and the Pahvant. I have seen them every weekend. They are hauling stuff into new sites and are flying VERY low. If you just look, you will see the signs that they have put out warning of low flying aircraft all over. They are going into some crazy areas. I have seen them on 4 wheelers going in to some of those areas.

Imagine that.............an explanation of some of the RUMORS!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: 

Now I am not saying that every one is with the drill rigs, but there is a lot of them and I am getting sick of all the stupid rumors going on. I hear a new one EVERY DAY it seems. 

Kind of funny stuff!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

I could make one call and find out for a fact if it's true or not... But I don't give a sh*t. :?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Pay attention Tex, it has already been established that it isn't true. And, you do give a "sh*t", admit it! If bow hunters are using helicopters to take down game, you SHOULD!


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Pay attention Tex, it has already been established that it isn't true. And, you do give a "sh*t", admit it! If bow hunters are using helicopters to take down game, you SHOULD!


 :mrgreen:


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Helicopters can be an asset I agree, but I don't know of anyone using them for hunting purposes. :?


Ya ever seen a coyote shot from a plane or helicopter?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

TAK said:


> proutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > Helicopters can be an asset I agree, but I don't know of anyone using them for hunting purposes. :?
> ...


Sorry, I figured everyone was paying attention and understood we are talking about hunting ELK. My bad. :roll:


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Yeah that makes sense about the drilling because I ran into that same sh*** over by Scofield the last couple years. It still makes me mad either way because there's nothing more annoying to me when out hunting then these dam helicopters flying over and landing in the bottoms of some of these canyons. I stopped hunting over by Scofield for that reason. When does this end or does it? I sure hope that we don't have to deal with this more and more in the future but we probably will so I should just get over it.  I don't know about you guys but a big part of hunting for me is just getting away from all the noise and disturbances of our fast past world. I like to think about how it was a hundred years ago before we fu** it all up. This is kind of off the point but those people that can't pick up there own garbage should be beaten. Just because these drilling teams can come in and rape our public lands doesn't mean we can't do our part to keep our wildernesses clean and even pick up after some other AHOLE that doesn't have a clue. We need to respect our lands and the wildlife that lives on them. Good luck to you all as well and put down a monster this year. 8)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I have used both a plane and a helicopter to hunt..... well... locate elk. A plane one time, flew over and circled the Boulders a few times 3 days before the opener. Now I use a helicopter every chance I get, usually for work but with other options also :wink: .

Now Pro, being a tower guy, haven't you had to fly to a mountain top a time or two and talked the pilot into flying over some good looking elk country??? If not you should try it, it is awsome. I do this every chance I get, talk the pilot into taking a long route home that might take us over some good country, I have found a few herds that way. 8) :lol:


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Wow....I can't believe that your proud of the fact that your to lazy to hunt and find an animal on your own dime. You know what you should also try hunting high fence as well because then you wont have to work at all. You call yourself a hunter I call you a lazy hack. Sorry but if your going to post crap like that then go start your own post with your fly boy **** and stay off this post because you make me sick and I guarantee that a lot will agree. :twisted:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

bowgy said:


> Now Pro, being a tower guy, haven't you had to fly to a mountain top a time or two and talked the pilot into flying over some good looking elk country??? If not you should try it, it is awsome. I do this every chance I get, talk the pilot into taking a long route home that might take us over some good country, I have found a few herds that way. 8) :lol:


I work in Tooele County, not exactly elk paradise out in the desert. The only time I fly in a helicopter over elk country was when I was life flighted of Dutton 3 years ago, cost $17,000 and I don't remember a second of it. :evil:

TheMtnGuide, you need to mellow out!


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Why do I need to mellow out? Did I hurt someone’s fragile ego? I just think it's disturbing that people admit tracking animals with plans and helicopters. I started this post and if someone that comes in and writes about how he uses helicopters and plans to track game is just asking for it. Don't you agree? If he’s just blowing smoke up my butt to get a rise then that’s funny **** but don’t tell me to mellow out just get over it. Hope your better after your flight off Dutton. That must have been a crazy experience. :mrgreen:


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Wow Pro, I would like to hear that story. Glad you made it out ok, as far as the mtguide, I have probably spent more time on foot hunting one hunt than he has in a life time so people like that don't bother me, I have walked many miles for many days before the hunt on the Dutton before the hunt when I drew the 301 because I never had hunted there before, I now know why you like it. It is rugged and beautiful. I shot a 340 class bull on that hunt. In 06 on the Panguitch I hiked in 3 to 5 miles every day (into the area I hunted) that I could on that hunt and took a 350+ bull on the last day of the hunt at noon after hiking (stalk hunting) starting at noon, GPS said I covered about 7 miles, found a road within 2 miles to haul him out on backpacks to, took three guys three trips. So like I said, some people talk out their you know whats without knowing deer poop. :mrgreen:


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

There are some great great bulls in Tooele county and I spotted them amazingly enough without using a helicopter or plane. You need to go check out the Deep Creeks and Pilot Mtn. There are some big bulls out there as well. If you look at where a lot of the big bulls where taken and it's not on top of the mountain but in the flats. People need to remember that elk were plains animals and prefer being in flat open areas. Just look at the pictures of the new state record that Mossback took last year. It was shot down in the flats so sometimes elk country is not what it seems. I've been hunting the Pahvant for elk sense the opener and you wouldn't believe where I'm seeing some bulls. Anyway sorry if I hurt anybodies feelings about using aircraft but I think it's not fair for the game and I think it's chicken sh**.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

I've hunted the Deeps, not Pilot, see elk year round on the Oquirrh/Stansbury, nothing to get me excited. I KNOW how to find elk, but thanks for the tip.

So, if scouting with a plane/helicopter is chicken @#$%, what is using trail cams, topo maps, aerial photos, gps, friends/family looking for you? What's the difference? As long as the LAW is being followed and the hunter isn't harassing wildlife, I am fine with using the resources available. I myself have no desire to fly over elk country, I also have never used trail cams, but I am fine with others using them LEGALLY!


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Well bowgy you don't know me and if you think you've spent more time hunting on foot then me then that's great for your little ego. I've guided over 50 biggame hunts just in Utah for J & J Outfitters and Big Mountain Outfitters. I also lived in Alaska where I guided Moose hunts and lived in the backcountry for weeks on foot so I bet I've walked more in one season then you will in your entire life. If you want to check my credentials then go to http://www.jandjoutfitters.com and http://www.bigmountainoutfitters.com where you can see a lot of the animals I've guided and if you have the time why don't you give them a call as well and ask about me. I don't know why you have a problem with me just because I have an issue with people using aircraft to find game. You obviously are bothered with my comments because it doesn't go along with what you think is right and that's OK but don't try and act like you're a bigger hunter then me because you'll loose.

Kind Regards,
Brandon Wicks


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

No hurt feelings here and no offense taken, infact nobody can offend me, if I am offended I choose to take offense :mrgreen: 

Also it may have sounded like I use them all the time (I wish), I love to fly any chance I get, but it is somewhat like road hunting, some just hate those that do it, now I don't do it but if I am driving to my hunting location and a 400" bull is standing 20 yards off the road as I am driving by I will stop and take him if the oportunity is there, if that makes me a road hunter then so be it. The same with flying, if I am flying over good deer or elk country I am not going to close my eyes but open them wide and oogle the county, if I see elk so be it. :wink: 
I could care less what anyone thinks of me as long as I am legal and safe and not interfering with anyone elses rights. What they think of me is there problem not mine.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

There are laws about using aircraft while hunting and as far as I know there aren't any laws about using trail cameras so there is one big difference. Also there are rules for B & C and P & Y about fare chase. Maybe you should pick up a copy and read it.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Whoops Mtguide, I missed your last post while I was typing and helping customers at the same time. I am sure you are a great hunter, and I will not argue, I am sure you are a better hunter than I am, PRObably almost as good as PRO :mrgreen: ,I don't know if you love it any more than I do though :wink: .

Ego??? I have been married for 34 years, I have no ego :mrgreen: 

As far as a problem with you, I have no problem, you are right I don't know you and you don't know me, I was just telling pro that what you said didn't bother me, you only have 10 posts on this forum and for all I knew you were just trolling to ge a bite :wink: 

You seemed to have a problem with me looking for game while I was in the air, that is ok because some think that using a guide is lazy and there for you make money off of lazy people like me so don't be too harsh on me :mrgreen: 

I just love to hunt and love to mess around on this forum.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

I respect your thoughts bowgy about how you hunt as long as it's legal, safe and doesn't bother other hunters. But you can't tell me that if you were flying a helicopter over an area while someone was hunting that it wouldn't bother them because it would. Just because your season isn't open doesn't mean someone else isn't on the ground scouting or hunting. Hunting is my life and I have loved it for 32 years. I'm with you about just having some fun on these posts but your right I am new and I need to be careful about getting to fired up. All I can think about is getting back down to the Pahvant to find this bull that I found last week. I'm heading down tomorrow for the rest of the hunt. Good luck and no hard feelings...


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Whoaaa, you are not only a much better hunter than me but a faster typer (is that even a word??) than me also  

You are right again there are laws in Utah and Alaska about flying. In Utah if you fly over or in you have to wait 48 hours to hunt after flying. 

I bow to your prowness you are a Nimrod (GREAT HUNTER). 

May all your game be trophy and all your tips large.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

TheMtnGuide said:


> There are laws about using aircraft while hunting and as far as I know there aren't any laws about using trail cameras so there is one big difference. Also there are rules for B & C and P & Y about fare chase. Maybe you should pick up a copy and read it.


Sure hope this was not directed toward me. :? While your resume is impressive, there are BETTER ones on this forum, so I ain't impressed much. I NEVER advocated using aircraft while hunting, go back and read what I said. Scouting with aircraft is just as LEGAL as using trail cams! That's a fact. Since I have guided/hunted MULTIPLE animals that have been entered in B&C and P&Y, I feel comfortable about my knowledge of the rules. I tomorrow for the rest of the hunt as well, chat with you after the hunt. Good luck!

Oh yeah, just a jab, but its "fair" chase, not "fare" chase. :wink:


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> Pro wrote:
> 
> Oh yeah, just a jab, but its "fair" chase, not "fare" chase.


You sure Pro??? When it's on the table Elk can be great tableFARE  :mrgreen:


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

It wasn't directed towards you Pro. It was directed towards who said they have walked more in one day then I have in my entire hunting carrier. This came out of nowhere from someone that didn't know me. I would never say that to someone that I didn't know. I know that there are a lot of hunters that have a lot more experience than I do I just wanted the bowgy to know that he wasn't dealing with some want to be. I've been around and I think I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. I didn't start the blows other than having a problem with aircraft while hunting and wanted to see what others were feeling and seeing. And yes my spelling su**'s.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

bowgy said:


> No hurt feelings here and no offense taken, infact nobody can offend me, if I am offended I choose to take offense :mrgreen:


What about that story about your MOM? :mrgreen: j/k A great man once said something to the effect of 'It's foolish to be insulted if unintentional, more foolish if intentional." That is not the exact quote, but same idea! Is that a fare statement? :mrgreen:


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

> Huge 29 wrote;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 
ROTFL :rotfl: 
What's even funnier it is "fair" statement, not "fare" statement. I think you did that on purpose.

What is even funnier I was called a lazy hack and a flyboy *** in one post, that has got to be a record for me even counting the old DWR forum.

MtnGuide is new but should read the rules about name calling, but no sweat. I have enjoyed it so far... fair....fare... oh heck what ever :wink: :wink:


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

I think that the Pro's comments in this post are a really good idea for us all to remember. You hear all these rumors about Mossback and other things going on out there but no hard evidence. You would think someone could produce a picture at least one. Don't we all carry cameras with us while hunting? I think we need to take everything with a grain of salt unless we see actual evidence. I know it's easy to get caught up in some of these rumors because I do myself. Case in point my post the helicopter in the Pahvant. And yeah sorry for the name calling. I'll go read the rules. I guess I'm just jealous that I don't have access to fly. I do think flying is awesome and have nothing against people that do. I just have a hard time with amount of overhead noise that frustrates me while hunting and I just took it out on you guys. I'm sure you guys are great ethical people and I just need to understand where you're coming from.



proutdoors said:


> Congrats on having a great tag, I have one for just south on the Dutton.
> 
> Here is a suggestion, if you see such activity, PLEASE video it, or at least take a couple of pictures of it. That way it will stop, and you would be the biggest hero ever in the Utah hunting circle! I lost count weeks ago on the rumors flying around about that area. I had no idea there were that many old women that cared so much about hunting. Rumors with a shred of PROOF are dangerous and childish. When will people GROW UP and produce PROOF/EVIDENCE before making the accusations?
> 
> Good luck on your hunt, I hope you kill spidey! That would be awesome! 8)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

TheMtnGuide,
Like I said, no sweat, glad to have you on the forums, your experience could be very helpful, especially for guys like me that dream someday we will get to hunt Alaska.

I work on mountain top communications sites so I have to fly to them sometimes by helicopter, therefore the oportunity is there to see a lot of country from a different perspective. To help you understand my ethics a little more I will tell one story of a flight.

We flew out of the Cedar City airport and had to fly over Cedar Mountain so on the return flight I ask the pilot to fly a little slower over an area I knew to see if I could see any elk, he asked if I wanted to fly lower and I said no just a little slower, I seen a herd of about 40 and he wanted to see them better so he started to circle and drop in altitude and I a yelled "NO PULL UP" but it was too late and they started to run. I told him that was the reason I did not want to fly lower. I did not want to disturb them in any way. The hunt hadn't started in that area but I still didn't want to disturb them.

Anyway, wELKcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy it and that you find your elk.


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## TheMtnGuide (Aug 27, 2008)

Given the same opportunity in my job I would probably do the same thing. I don't have any problem with that and the fact that you had the consciousness to tell the pilot to not go low tells me that you also have good ethics. My only problem is with those that step over the bounds to ruin it for us all.

I probably would have started posting earlier but I just found out about this forum. I love talking hunting and think that these forums can be a good source of information as long as you can cut through all the BS. Feel free to email me if you ever want to talk [email protected]


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

interesting comments and thoughts on helicopter use and the underlying current of hostility is very evident as it was on previous forums and posts. as one who uses helicopters in the backcountry for work a lot - my annual copter bill is about $120K, let me make a few comments...
1. i get smoked during the summer because all the ships are flying around on fires which means that much of my summer flying work gets postponed till fall. i cant control that, simply a fact. 
2. when we fly, we have to sling equipment, that means low flying - slow flying and lots of landings and take offs. thats a bummer but also a fact. im not trying to ruin someones hunt, but i have a job to do and at $1800 bucks an hour, i am flying a straight line from point a to point b and if thats over where you happen to be, i am sorry, but tough beans. its in the same category as someone wanting a pristine wilderness experience and running into a scout troop... life happens, put a smile on and a positive attitude. its public land and we all have to live together.. i would never intentionally ruin someones hunt.
3. when a ship is that expensive, it really is cost prohibitive for all except the most wealthy of clients to scout an elk hunt from a copter... and those folks would normally sign up for a high fence hunt or a mossback guide. if you have a 2 hour ferry time to your "secluded area" and you scout from the air for 2 hours, your total helicopter tab is going to be nearly 11 grand - economically it makes no sense whatsoever... if i had 11 grand to blow on an elk hunt, im going with mossback, not a helicopter ride. so, and i may be presumptious here, it is very likely that the helicopters seen were on some kind of legitimate business and had nothing to do with hunting of any kind and if it actually was, they had more money than brains.

I like this forum for its 'decorum' - the civility of participants, the good will between hunting and fishing brothers. so, i dont want to stir this pot but to say - there are reasons that some of us fly when and where and how that are far beyond our personal control. and i, like everyone else in a ship, am not going to close by eyes as i fly... im gonna take every advantage to see what i can see and use it to my advantage - and none of that advantage is immediate... i see game, i put it in the memory bank and in future outings on ground, i look.

so, cheers to all.
rj


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Good explanation Kingfisher, I have built communications sites where we had to sling the cement, the building, the antennas, the solar panels, the batteries and everything. They are amazing and great tools.

Much faster than one I built in the fishlake area one time, it was a small solar communications site and we hauled, everything mentioned above, (except no cement) on pack horses. It was a fun expierience though.


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## Kingfisher (Jul 25, 2008)

having thought about it for a while, i cant think of a single pilot i have flown with over the past 20 years that would compromise his career, his company or the ship by participating in an illegal hunt from the air. most have flown for the DWR at some point or another on game counts and other activities and are specifically familiar with rules and regulations. when i am flying and we see game, we talk game and all have specific knowledge of what is and is not legal to do from the air. to get caught at something like that would be serious bad press for them and whatever company they fly for as well as fines and maybe even decertification of the ship. i have asked if they have ever flown hunters into a remote camp for drop off and only the ones from alaska have and then only in alaska. never came on one who has had a drop off here in utah.

maybe a private owner would consider doing it but there are very few of them and again, they are stinkin rich - more likely to hire an outfitter than not.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I totally agree Kingfisher, the price I have to pay for the choppers are way too much to pay to go look for game. Most of the time I fly with the govenment contracted pilots and ships but the couple of private ones I fly with say it is too expensive to fly for fun just for themselves. They only fly when they are being paid. The last one I contracted was one I needed with a sling and he was only charging me $1300 per hour. The flight was only one and a half hours so I gave him an extra $500 tip. I thought he was a great pilot and did me a good job. He owned the ship himself and was a private business.


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