# Scope help.



## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

I’m debating a couple scopes for hunting. I’m looking to be competent out to 500 yards. I’m debating the Leupold vx2 CDS 3-9x40 windplex reticle and the 4-16x44 diamondback tactical FFP. I can get both for the same price. I like the idea of the ease of use with the Leupold but I know with CDS you give up some precision. Maybe ok for 500 or less shots? I like the idea of being more precise with the diamondback and the extra features you get but I fear fumbling around with the scope during hunting situations or is it really not bad once you learn your gear? This will be my first experience with turret style scopes so any advice as it pertains to huntings is appreciated.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

brendo said:


> I'm debating a couple scopes for hunting. I'm looking to be competent out to 500 yards. I'm debating the Leupold vx2 CDS 3-9x40 windplex reticle and the 4-16x44 diamondback tactical FFP. I can get both for the same price. I like the idea of the ease of use with the Leupold but I know with CDS you give up some precision. Maybe ok for 500 or less shots? I like the idea of being more precise with the diamondback and the extra features you get but I fear fumbling around with the scope during hunting situations or is it really not bad once you learn your gear? This will be my first experience with turret style scopes so any advice as it pertains to huntings is appreciated.


I own a bunch of Vortex products. I enjoy all of them and would have been fine being a "Vortex guy"

But I gotta say - This year I have shot a few different setups using vx3i cds and I love them. The ease of use is incredible and I haven't had issues with precision. (If you like at my 2018 bull thread he was shot with a vx3i 4.5-14 power, https://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/196381-2018-bull-elk.html#post2095567)

You can get turrets for the diamondback. That said, if this is a hunting setup and you are fine using one round, don't fear the leupold! What rifle are you using?

Also, are you looking at a discontinued vx-2 or a vx-freedom by chance?


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## muddydogs (Oct 7, 2007)

So why choose the Leupold over the Vortex as both have all the extra lines in the scope plus with the Vortex you have adjustable turrets as well as MOA or MRAD lines. With the Leupold all you have is windage lines and no quick adjust turrets. What am I missing here? Get the Vortex and you can adjust the turrets or not.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

muddydogs said:


> So why choose the Leupold over the Vortex as both have all the extra lines in the scope plus with the Vortex you have adjustable turrets as well as MOA or MRAD lines. With the Leupold all you have is windage lines and no quick adjust turrets. What am I missing here? Get the Vortex and you can adjust the turrets or not.


The leupold has elevation and windage adjustments and comes with the quick adjust turret for your specific ammo?

I am confused what you mean? Doing "BDC" or "holdover" is a different concept then dialing and aiming dead on. That's what the custom dial system is.

Oh, and OP you mentioned precision. I have shot beyond 500 just fine using CDS


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## toasty (May 15, 2008)

All of my big game hunting rifles and muzzleloaders have a leupold with a CDS on them now. They are light, durable, accurate, and simple to use. I tell the kids the range, either they or I dial in and shoot. My son hit the finish shot on an antelope in WY with my 6.5 creedmoor at 580 yards this year with the CDS dialed in 1 click shy of 600 yards. The CDS dials, if you are zeroed at 200, do usually run out between 600-700 yards, so if you are wanting to shoot beyond that, don't get a CDS. We shoot long range and are capable of shooting further, but for hunting big game with all the variables, we work to get our shots inside of 300-400 yards. The down side to CDS is if you change your bullet they want you to buy another turret, but they are simple to make custom labels. The CDS system usually does not have an exposed windage turret either, but I have only ever wanted to dial in windage once when hunting. I used holdoff of 13" for the wind on that shot and hit my deer anyway. 


I owned an shot several vortex scopes including a diamondback, several vipers and a razor. IMO, the VXII glass is better than the vortex viper pst glass and to my eyes the VXIII glass is as good as razor glass. Leupold glass is also a little less finicky to eye relief and eye alignment and my kids can find animals faster in leupold scopes. CDS is a really good hunting system. I wouldn't use it for long range shooting or competition shooting, but it is really good for hunting.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

RandomElk16 said:


> brendo said:
> 
> 
> > I'm debating a couple scopes for hunting. I'm looking to be competent out to 500 yards. I'm debating the Leupold vx2 CDS 3-9x40 windplex reticle and the 4-16x44 diamondback tactical FFP. I can get both for the same price. I like the idea of the ease of use with the Leupold but I know with CDS you give up some precision. Maybe ok for 500 or less shots? I like the idea of being more precise with the diamondback and the extra features you get but I fear fumbling around with the scope during hunting situations or is it really not bad once you learn your gear? This will be my first experience with turret style scopes so any advice as it pertains to huntings is appreciated.
> ...


Thanks! That's good info. I am looking at the discontinued vx2 the new freedom doesn't have the windplex reticle. But I have considered the vx freedom. I'll be putting it on a tikka t3x in 6.5 creed and I found a round that shoots well and that's all I really plan on using.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

toasty said:


> All of my big game hunting rifles and muzzleloaders have a leupold with a CDS on them now. They are light, durable, accurate, and simple to use. I tell the kids the range, either they or I dial in and shoot. My son hit the finish shot on an antelope in WY with my 6.5 creedmoor at 580 yards this year with the CDS dialed in 1 click shy of 600 yards. The CDS dials, if you are zeroed at 200, do usually run out between 600-700 yards, so if you are wanting to shoot beyond that, don't get a CDS. We shoot long range and are capable of shooting further, but for hunting big game with all the variables, we work to get our shots inside of 300-400 yards. The down side to CDS is if you change your bullet they want you to buy another turret, but they are simple to make custom labels. The CDS system usually does not have an exposed windage turret either, but I have only ever wanted to dial in windage once when hunting. I used holdoff of 13" for the wind on that shot and hit my deer anyway.
> 
> I owned an shot several vortex scopes including a diamondback, several vipers and a razor. IMO, the VXII glass is better than the vortex viper pst glass and to my eyes the VXIII glass is as good as razor glass. Leupold glass is also a little less finicky to eye relief and eye alignment and my kids can find animals faster in leupold scopes. CDS is a really good hunting system. I wouldn't use it for long range shooting or competition shooting, but it is really good for hunting.


Thanks toasty! This will be used almost exclusively for hunting besides the times I'm practicing for hunting. I might practice farther than 500 but only on rare occurrence and realistically I don't hunt rifle a ton. all my shots have been under 350 so far but I have missed a couple of opportunities at animals a little over 400 that I wasn't comfortable taking a shot on and I'd like to be able to capitalize on those if need be.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

brendo said:


> Thanks! That's good info. I am looking at the discontinued vx2 the new freedom doesn't have the windplex reticle. But I have considered the vx freedom. I'll be putting it on a tikka t3x in 6.5 creed and I found a round that shoots well and that's all I really plan on using.


Nice! You should be able to dial out pretty far on that (650+) and so 500 and in will be absolutely no problem! You won't regret taking the guesswork out of it. You can either do your turret for the elevation you hunt, or do something simple. Don't overthink it for hunting. I have seen good success putting in 5200 feet and the velocity listed on the box of factory ammo. Then they are in good hunting groups at the range or on the mountain. You can get super dialed but of the 4 setups I have shot with the CDS, it's simple for hunting!

I have shot with and without the windplex. It's great either way.

Let us know! I love my tikka too lol.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I have a VX2 4-12 on my 7mm and love it!

I had Leupold modify it to accept the CDS system and make me a custom turret for my chronographed hand load. I had never shot at anything (not even paper) past 200 yds. I was able to hit a gallon milk jug at 375 on my second shot using the CDS dial. I found it to be spot on.

If I buy another scope in the near future it will likely be a Leupold CDS. Unless it's a caliber I like to change loads with frequently but even then, I may just have a second turret cut.

I know it wasn't the OP's plan but you may also look into that new Sig BDX (?) line of rangefinders and scopes....looks pretty dang slick.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Keep in mind that the 3-9 scope is not the best choice of power for a 500 yard shot. It would be hard to even know if you are on the correct animal. At that range, more power is better. Even 12 power is questionable. Not saying it cant be done but you better know what you are doing to make the shot. In that price range you could look at the 4-16 Diamondback HP. It has capped turrets. The turrets are smaller but can be turned easy enough.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

reb8600 said:


> Keep in mind that the 3-9 scope is not the best choice of power for a 500 yard shot. It would be hard to even know if you are on the correct animal. At that range, more power is better. Even 12 power is questionable. Not saying it cant be done but you better know what you are doing to make the shot. In that price range you could look at the 4-16 Diamondback HP. It has capped turrets. The turrets are smaller but can be turned easy enough.


I am not going to say I don't like extra power, but I am going to strongly disagree with this:

_It would be hard to even know if you are on the correct animal_

My brother in law shoots his Sharps 500yds yards with a dang TANG sight!

9 power works at 500.


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

You are right. You can shoot open sights and a 9 power will work. Get multiple animals on the hill at 500 yards and 99% of the people will not be able to tell if it has antlers or not even with a 9 power scope. It is a lot harder to make an accurate shot with lower power. They shoot open sights out over 1000 yards but for hunting and making a clean kill they are not doing it. I see people all the time at the range that have a hard time shooting and hitting accurately at 200 and 300 yards with a 9 power scope. I stated a 3-9 was not the best choice, didn't say it couldn't be done.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

reb8600 said:


> You are right. You can shoot open sights and a 9 power will work. Get multiple animals on the hill at 500 yards and 99% of the people will not be able to tell if it has antlers or not even with a 9 power scope. It is a lot harder to make an accurate shot with lower power. They shoot open sights out over 1000 yards but for hunting and making a clean kill they are not doing it.


I guess we can agree to disagree. If there is really a herd that big, and you don't have good bino's or a clear spot on the specific animal then get closer or pass. But at 500 yards with 9 power I can see exactly which animal is which, and a lot of hunters can. Most people are only using 10 power bino's when hunting....

Regardless, if he feels comfortable he won't be under equipped. There is this big fad to have 20 power scopes with objectives that are 50+ and have to be a 30mm tube because 1" is insufficient. To each their own.


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## CAExpat (Oct 27, 2013)

These days when buying a new scope, I can't imagine NOT having a turret specific to your load. All I can contribute to your search is make sure you go that route. As far as yardage limitation with a custom turret, get a forward slope base and problem solved. 

I just went with a Tract Toric with custom turret to replace a Meopta, it's an exceptional scope with equal customer service. The 20 MOA base from Murphy Precision and my rifle will out-shoot my capabilities any day. There are too many good choices out there to compromise, good luck with your purchase!


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## bfr (Apr 26, 2009)

Another vote for the CDS system, I converter my 4X12 VX2 back when they first came out, one of the best decisions I made. Made 1 shot kills out to 535yds on cow elk and just under 500 on deer, then just for giggles shot a 10” steel gong at 650 yds with some long rangers. Boy were they surprised when I hit it with the first shot.


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## Whiskey H0und (Aug 26, 2016)

I have used exposed turrets for the past couple of years and the one piece of advice I would share is make sure you get one with some sort of zero stop. If you are dialing up you need to make sure you can get back down and be zeroed again. I dont have any experience with the custom turrets but in my mind I dont want to have to buy new turrets every time I decide to load a different pill. 
And as far as power goes, 4-16 has gotten me out as far as I have ever wanted to go and it is good for the occasional close up shot as well. I have hit deer at 628 yards and 70 yards and have never been worried about picking out the right animal. 
Remember that when it comes to gear, buy and use what you are comfortable with. When you are comfortable with your gear, you will have more time to concentrate on making the best shot you can at the moment of truth.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Whiskey H0und said:


> I have used exposed turrets for the past couple of years and the one piece of advice I would share is make sure you get one with some sort of zero stop.


For the OP - the VX-2 does not have a zero stop. I haven't had an issue with the early CDS and no zero stop, but - you can get it on the newer ones if you desire.


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## justismi28 (Aug 19, 2014)

FWIW I picked up the same Leupold you are debating on earlier this year as a good lightweight option for a Hells Canyon Speed. Picked it up on a sweetheart of a deal because like you said it had been discontinued. I don't have the Custom Dial just yet as I ended up spending my summer only shooting my ml in prep for my elk tag, but it still has the MOA dial installed. After my muzzleloader hunt, I spent the next month shooting that rifle really making sure I was comfortable behind it and that it was zeroed. I dialed out to 300 using the default dial at the range just to verify that it works and went hunting. 

I was worried about the turret twisting on its own, so I put some electrical tape on and it never moved once. I've been toying around with the idea of using an old allergy pill bottle and some of my daughters hair ties to create a 'cap' that I can quickly pull up and to the side if I ever do need to dial. 

All that said, if you have a line on the vx2 cds w/windplex can you pm me? I'd love to add another for one of my muzzleloaders.


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

justismi28 said:


> FWIW I picked up the same Leupold you are debating on earlier this year as a good lightweight option for a Hells Canyon Speed. Picked it up on a sweetheart of a deal because like you said it had been discontinued. I don't have the Custom Dial just yet as I ended up spending my summer only shooting my ml in prep for my elk tag, but it still has the MOA dial installed. After my muzzleloader hunt, I spent the next month shooting that rifle really making sure I was comfortable behind it and that it was zeroed. I dialed out to 300 using the default dial at the range just to verify that it works and went hunting.
> 
> I was worried about the turret twisting on its own, so I put some electrical tape on and it never moved once. I've been toying around with the idea of using an old allergy pill bottle and some of my daughters hair ties to create a 'cap' that I can quickly pull up and to the side if I ever do need to dial.
> 
> All that said, if you have a line on the vx2 cds w/windplex can you pm me? I'd love to add another for one of my muzzleloaders.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leupold-Vx...rentrq:d6d245d01660a8670208ee78fffea3c6|iid:1


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## reb8600 (Sep 8, 2007)

Ebay is known for counterfit Leupold scopes. Use some caution. Not saying that the one in your link is. I just wanted to warn you that it is a problem.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

I feel it's a bit of a toss up. Both turret styles will require you to take a small amount of time to turn to the correct position, whether that's a yardage marker on the CDS or MOA marker on the diamondback. 

I have both styles and really can't say that I prefer one over the other. My leupold is the VX3i 4-14 with windplex reticle. It's a great scope. Haven't looked through the diamondback tactical though. I tend to like a little more magnification, so my vote would be for the vortex.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

RandomElk16 said:


> Whiskey H0und said:
> 
> 
> > I have used exposed turrets for the past couple of years and the one piece of advice I would share is make sure you get one with some sort of zero stop.
> ...


My VX-2 has a zero stop. I had them cut my CDS dial for a 200yd zero.

It did not come that way or with the CDS internals at all but they did add everything and cut me a dial. I think I paid about $175 for the upgrade to the CDS system.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

How is the repeatability on the Leupold CDS system. I've been wanting to get a new scope for my Kimber Mnt Ascent 6.5 CM, but read a bunch of reviews claiming that Leupolds turret CDS system is not good(?) Yeah, reviews push Nightforce and the such, but this is a super light weight rig and I want the scope to be lightweight as well (and not spend $2k). Was looking at the VX3i 4-14 with windplex reticle or the 3-9.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Not sure what you mean by repeatability. My scope stops at zero, and stays locked in at the set range without issue. The clicks are firm and obvious.

This scope has been bounced around on the rack of my ATV (in a holder) and has held zero perfectly.

I think the hash marks look good on my silver scope as a bonus.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

KineKilla said:


> Not sure what you mean by repeatability.


Ability to dial the CDS turrets to various yardages for shooting over many shots and still be on target when dialed back to zero.

Lots of posts out there like this one(?)https://www.rokslide.com/forums/optics/82931-leupold-cds.html

Truth is I don't need to dial turrets with my 6.5 CM. Wont be shooting far enough to warrant it, but it would be fun.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

gdog said:


> Ability to dial the CDS turrets to various yardages for shooting over many shots and still be on target when dialed back to zero.
> 
> Lots of posts out there like this one(?)https://www.rokslide.com/forums/optics/82931-leupold-cds.html
> 
> Truth is I don't need to dial turrets with my 6.5 CM. Wont be shooting far enough to warrant it, but it would be fun.


I have had 0 issue.

My brother in law is a weekly shooter, gun trader, etc... He probably trades through a couple dozen rifles a year. The 4 scopes he primarily uses are all CDS Leupolds. So not only are they getting shot and adjusted a lot, but they are going from rifle to rifle. No issues.

It can happen.


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