# Theater shooting



## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm interested to hear peoples thought on this incident. Not only that but does this change how you feel about public safety? 

I personally was very disturbed by what went on. The seemingly senseless act of violence committed on random strangers. It really made me think about my own vulnerability.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Very sad and tragic story. I wish certain groups would stop trying to push their own agenda's. There's been a lot of talk about banning assault rifles again and political party affiliation. This guy was disturbed and maybe some warning signs were missed. Sad when you can't enjoy a movie w/o fear of being shot. Thoughts and prayers with victims and their families.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Tragic....just tragic. Not only the shooting and the deaths but the idea that our 2nd amendment rights were removed by the owners of Cinemark. If a company restricts the rights to protect ourselves they must provide enough security to protect us. Cinemark failed!! In this case Cinemark should be held 100% responsible for the shooting and deaths of these innocent people.

Cinemark, banks and certain Utah churches do not have a back up plan in these rare and tragic incidents, and they should all be held accountable in these situations. 

One single firearm in the hands of a law abiding citizen, CC or not, 'might' have helped to prevent some or all of this situation. 

Restricting our rights to protect ourselves is illegal. Business's and company's that have a 'No Firearms' policy should not get our business. 



Ban psycho's......not firearms.


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## UtahJax (Feb 18, 2012)

+1 .45


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## Chaser (Sep 28, 2007)

Excellent points, .45. I would also like to add that when the investigation is said and done, they will find that the 870 shotgun the perpetrator used did more damage in the act than the other firearms combined, meaning a ban on semi-auto weapons would only have limited the damage slightly, not eliminated it. Furthermore, bad guys will keep getting guns and doing bad things, no matter what. A gun ban would only hurt the law-abiding, and these acts will not stop. It was apparent that this individual had his mind made up to do what he did, and if he couldn't get the guns the way he did (legally) he would have gotten them from the black market, meaning the money he paid for them would have funded a criminal enterprise, rather than a legitimate business. 

Pretty dumb for Cinemark to say they are banning guns now. Perhaps in the wake of this tragedy, their course of action should have been to examine their security practices, including securing auxillary entrances and exits. How did this guy get into the building without anyone noticing? My guess is an unsecured door. If he walked right through the front door, how did nobody notice? I agree with the sentiment that if businesses are going to restrict our ability to protect ourselves, they must then do what is necessary to protect us. That raises another question though- how far must they go? Armed guards? Metal detectors? Hire TSA? 

I think the best way to prevent this type of thing from happening again is to quit giving the criminals so much news coverage. They are often narcissistic, and desire attention. By depriving them of the attention, they will search for other outlets...hopefully either seeking help, or leaving a touching note and doing themselves in, so others aren't hurt. Unfortunately things like this will continue to happen. There is just no way to prevent them all. I just hope if I am ever present when something happens, I have the wherewithall and wisdom to handle the situation in a way that gets myself, my family, and as many others as possible out of there alive.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Here are a few thing that have come out on what happened. 

He supposedly bought a ticket for the show, came into the theater and then left through the right side exit by the screen and blocked the door ajar while he changed into what he wore. His car was just outside this door. 
He was wearing a bullet proof vest, leggings, groin and neck protector along with a gas mask and helmet.
When he reentered the theater he tossed a gas grenade toward opposite back coroner of the theater forcing the victims toward him before he started to shoot. 
His first weapon of choice was the 870. There are different stories coming out on just what he had it loaded with but it sounds like just bird shot.

Now it is just speculation but I doubt that even the most trained police officer or a combat veteran from the military could of done anything to of changed much of the outcome, but we will never know. I do remember that a year ago last January when Congress Woman Gifford was shot in Tucson that there was a citizen with a weapon and his explanation of why he didn't try to take out the perp was that he was afraid of hitting someone else that it was so crowded, and this was at a outside event and not inside a movie theater with 200 people inside.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Critter said:


> Now it is just speculation but I doubt that even the most trained police officer or a combat veteran from the military could of done anything to of changed much of the outcome, but we will never know. I do remember that a year ago last January when Congress Woman Gifford was shot in Tucson that there was a citizen with a weapon and his explanation of why he didn't try to take out the perp was that he was afraid of hitting someone else that it was so crowded, and this was at a outside event and not inside a movie theater with 200 people inside.


You are probably right Critter. I can only imagine the panic and mayhem in the theater while this was going on. Doubtful that someone with a concealed weapon could have done much given how many people would have likely been running around trying to get to safety. Additionally, with the perp having body armor _if_ there had been someone with a concealed weapon, they likely wouldnt have been able to stop him and may have put themselves directly in harm's way.

This was a very cold and calculated crime that really breaks my heart. Prayers to the victims and their families.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

If you could save 10 of the 12 lives taken......... if you had a permit and a gun..... would it not be worth at least trying to stop or slow him down? If I had a weapon, I would at least go down fighting. Getting hit in the vest still hurts like crazy. Most of these kind of people are chicken **** if someone starts shooting back.
I have had a permit for over 25 years, and I very rarely carry a weapon, other than in my outfits.
This kind of event makes me re-think to carry more often or not.
It breaks my heart to see some crazy take innocent lives.
The prayers and thoughts from my family go out to the families who lost loved ones to this wacko.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

.45 said:


> Tragic....just tragic. Not only the shooting and the deaths but the idea that our 2nd amendment rights were removed by the owners of Cinemark. If a company restricts the rights to protect ourselves they must provide enough security to protect us. Cinemark failed!! In this case Cinemark should be held 100% responsible for the shooting and deaths of these innocent people.
> 
> Cinemark, banks and certain Utah churches do not have a back up plan in these rare and tragic incidents, and they should all be held accountable in these situations.
> 
> ...


Agreed .45, well said! Glad to see you posting again. I hope you stick around. This place would not be the same w/ o you!

Banning fireams will only make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. Criminals will always get around the law and get their guns. I hope CO has the death penalty. If not death by excessive "man love" seems to be an appropriate punishment.


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## Wind In His Hair (Dec 31, 2009)

These type of events get me so worked up for so many reasons. The bottom line is that it is the individual that is responsible, not the method or instrument. Even if he wasn't able to acquire firearms, he still would have found some other way to kill and hurt people. He could have just as easily set fire to the theater or manufactured an explosive device. It's people that do awful things in this world, not the tools they choose to do those awful things with. There are no guns or knives in the room I am sitting in right now, yet I can look around and probably come up with at least a half dozen or so ways of harming someone if I wanted to.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Aside from the awful tragedy that instances like these are, the thing that really gets me worked up is that it allows individuals and groups with agendas to come out of the woodwork to ban this or do that. But few of these groups use their clout to help the families with donations to help with final expenses and medical expenses that they may not be able to afford.


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

.45 said:


> Tragic....just tragic. Not only the shooting and the deaths but the idea that our 2nd amendment rights were removed by the owners of Cinemark. If a company restricts the rights to protect ourselves they must provide enough security to protect us. Cinemark failed!! In this case Cinemark should be held 100% responsible for the shooting and deaths of these innocent people.
> 
> Cinemark, banks and certain Utah churches do not have a back up plan in these rare and tragic incidents, and they should all be held accountable in these situations.
> 
> ...


*YES & AMEN!*


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

That .45 fellar is smarter than he looks! :mrgreen: 
It really sucks to hear anyone taking advantage of such a tragedy to gain political advantage regardless of political motivation, but it will happen to a large degree. This one made me grin today in response to some of the knee jerk gun control reactions I have heard:


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Huge, that comic is SPOT ON.

Sadly, this is what we will be facing for decades to come. And when we die, our grandchildren will have to justify why we should be allowed to hunt, fish, and own firearms.

In the mean time, why dont you just follow the logic of the crowd and do the following:


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)




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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Im going to frame that and hang it on my wall O*-- . Well said.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

Yes, I'm sure this will be used to martyr some useless gun control bill, so congress can look like they are actually accomplishing something. But that was not the point of my post. I myself believe that 2nd amendment is the one thing that will keep this country free from a foreign occupation. I think citizen gun ownership is the type of thing that separates a democracy from an empirical governmental structure. The reason I posted this tread was to get a base line from others of how they felt about this particular situation. I personally would pick the media industry if i were to point a finger. After watching the case unfold to the point it has I feel the motivating factor mush have been fame. Did our societies emphasis on celebrity compel a man to commit such an atrocious act against his fellow man? I think that is a fair question.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that prohibiting guns in theaters will be about as effective as their ban on outside food.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Just from a business standpoint, I believe they place themselves in a high liability position in that if they don't actually have metal detectors and such they are only making the law abiders not bring them in placing the innocent in a position not able to defend themselves. I can see a pretty reasonable liability lawsuit from someone injured in such an incident going forward.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm all but positive that stone will be turned, Huge.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Remember the days when we could send our kids to school with out fear of them being shot or stabbed, or when we could walk our family members to the gate at the airport, or when we didnt feel the overwhelming need to lock our doors at night?

Wow, the world sure has taken a turn for the better :roll:


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not convinced that human nature or these occurrences take place more often than say, 30 years ago, from a population relativity standpoint. However, I am quite sure that publicity and the media's ability to rapidly communicate to a ravenous, shock mongering society is much more prevalent. 

Both are very sad.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Bax* said:


> Remember the days when we could send our kids to school with out fear of them being shot or stabbed, or when we could walk our family members to the gate at the airport, or when we didnt feel the overwhelming need to lock our doors at night?
> 
> Wow, the world sure has taken a turn for the better :roll:


I wonder how many on here remember driving to high school with either a shotgun or rifle in the back window just so that you could get a quick start on that evenings hunt. Not to mention that just about every boy and a lot of the girls always had a pocket knife with them.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

Critter said:


> Bax* said:
> 
> 
> > Remember the days when we could send our kids to school with out fear of them being shot or stabbed, or when we could walk our family members to the gate at the airport, or when we didnt feel the overwhelming need to lock our doors at night?
> ...


That was a bit before my time. But Chaser's dad talks about having his shotgun in his truck for an early morning hunt before school and then for afterward.

Pocket knives were frowned upon in school up until middle school for me. And at that point, they were completely forbidden.

But one thing I remember vividly is that if two boys had a disagreement, they went and beat the crap out of each other and then became friends later on. Parents didnt get involved and I even remember teachers standing by just to make sure it was a fair fight and that no one got seriously hurt.

Now there is no honor in school yard fights. Kids kick their opponent when they are down, and weapons somehow make them tougher than the kid that just uses his fists.


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## pkred (Jul 9, 2009)

Bax,

I yearn for a simpler time when there was public trust. And if you fight at school these days the cops get involved. Hard to learn to fight your own battles...

Tree, 

I believe you to have a relevant point, does not make me any less sick to my stomach to see this type of situation unfold. On a side note thank you for building this site you made a gooder. Congrats on your success!


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

pkred said:


> Bax,
> 
> Tree,
> 
> I believe you to have a relevant point, does not make me any less sick to my stomach to see this type of situation unfold. On a side note thank you for building this site you made a gooder. Congrats on your success!


I agree, it makes it no less egregious and tragic. Not sure what the second sentence meant. :mrgreen:


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Where I grew up, if you had a gun in the gun rack in your truck, you would be questioned by the principle or teacher - and the question would be "having any luck?" Pocket knives were standard with all the guys in high school. And would come out an lunch time to cut up an apple or whatever else with no questions asked. Same thing if you were using it to sharpen your pencil. But if they came out in the hallway, you'd get in trouble. Great lesson there I thought - everything has a time and place. I'm not really that old - just 42 - but I grew up in a small town in Idaho that was, and still is about 20-25 years behind the rest of the world.

Now that said, we also had our share of violence. One of my scout buddies committed suicide when we were in 6th grade. When I was in 4th grade, a man confronted another man one night at a bar about sleeping with his wife. The argument escalated until one guy went to his truck, took out his hunting rifle, went back in the bar and blew the other guy away. And the people in the bar waited 30-40 minutes to call the cops so the shooter could have a head start. As far as I know, he was never caught. But some of the locals felt "guy had it coming."

I'm not sure there are any more nut jobs around now than back then. But one thing the internet does is allows the nut jobs to find one another, (just look at UWN as an example of that ;-) ) . And news spreads faster and farther. And ideas and bitterness also grow faster and farther when fueled by others that share the same kind of crazy.


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