# Another Fish & Game Success Story



## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Sorry for the long post, but you guys gotta hear this story.
So last weekend we made the trip down to Delta for the Snow Geese Season Opener. We worked out a deal with a landowner that was fair the night before, and set up our decoys at 3AM-6AM the morning of the opener. At 8:30AM, when the majority of the geese were in the air, we get a visit from the Fish and Game. Walking right up the middle of the field, right through the middle of the decoys, flaring hundreds of geese. As irritated as we were, we realize that this is their job so we cooperated quickly and had them on their way with no citations or issues. We had about 15-20 birds on the ground already. The F&G jumped in their truck and headed out. All is good, back to hunting…we thought. After about an hour of hunting, we notice another F&G truck on the end of the field. When I glassed him I noticed him circling my truck, trailer etc. After a few minutes, here he comes…right down the middle of the field, through the decoys, and birds are flaring. Unreal. This time, he says, “Guys, I know you’ve already been checked for licenses, but we have another issue and I need you all to be honest with me because I already know what’s going on. Where is the electric call?” Surprised by his approach I tied his comment with my own question, “I’m sorry, if I am understanding what you’re saying, you are accusing us of using an e-call? Is that accurate?” He replies, “I’m asking you where it’s at.” I reply, “Okay, if that’s the case then you are accusing us of breaking the law, under what pretense are you making this accusation.” He says, “I’ve received 6 calls that you are using an e-caller, I’ve been doing this for a long time and when you get 6 calls there is some validity to it, so c’mon guys. Show me the call, be honest with me, I am a pretty decent guy.” At this point, my level of irritation was rising, and my patience was lowering, so I said “actually it’s pretty irritating if I’m being honest, that you would walk out here and without giving us an opportunity to even be honest with you, you’ve placed blame on us because you’ve received some call. The truth is, there are 8 of us here, we’re all pretty good with our hand calls and if other groups are thinking otherwise that’s too bad. But we would appreciate the benefit of the doubt and be considered innocent until proven guilty rather than the opposite.” I honestly don’t know if he even heard what I had just said. He then turned to one of my buddies and said, “How about you, what have you got to say?” My buddy replied, “We’ve got nothing but hand calls bro, I think those guys to the north of us are just irritated because we’re getting all the birds this morning.” Get this, the fish cop says, “No, that’s not it. I know those guys real well, they are buddies of mine. They’ve been hunting waterfowl for 20 years and they know the sound of an ecaller.” Huh? So I jumped back in, “So you’re saying that those guys are your buddies?” He says, “yes.” I said, “So they call you, all six of them from different cell phones so it looks like six different reports. Ironically, there are six of them over there, but of course you know that because you are buddies, does that sound pretty accurate? You don’t have to be fish and game to wade through the BS man. We’re not idiots. What’s really the issue here?” He completely changes the subject and says, “So none of you have answered my question, are you, or are you not using a ecaller today?” My patience is becoming even more thin, I said, “Either you’re not hearing us, or you don’t want to, I’m not sure which, but I don’t know how else to be more clear for you. We are not using an e-caller, we don’t have one, we are all using hand calls.” He pauses for about 20 seconds looking at each of us, there is an awkward silence and he puts his hands up in the air and says, “So you’re all lying to me.” Yeah…my patience is now gone. And this is the part where I nearly got myself arrested. I stood up, walked over to him (he’s like 22 years old by the way) and I said, “Listen, and I’ll be real straight with you so you hear exactly what I am saying. I respect your badge, I respect your responsibilities. If you want to come out here and follow-up on a bogus call from a group of hunters I am fine with that. Come out in the field, ask your questions, investigate it. But to come out here and call us all liars is a totally different thing, where I come from those are fighting words and if you didn’t have a badge on your chest you’d know that those are fighting words. We were clear with you, answered your questions honestly, and if that’s the only reason you came out here then it’s time for you to either leave, or call your Sargent so we can work this out like men.” He said, “Are you threatening me?” I so wanted to say, you’re **** right I am, but I didn’t. I said, “I am telling you to stop harassing us, unless you have further reason to believe we have broken the law, and if that’s the case let’s get somebody here who has a little more experience than you.” Just like that, he said, “no, that won’t be necessary. If you have a caller guys, and you just don’t want to tell me, put it away. Have a good day.” He turned and walked away. What in the world? I’ve never had a more condescending conversation in my life. He spoke to us as if we were all criminals. Whatever, back to hunting…we thought. The very next morning. Same field, same decoy set up, here comes the F&G again. This time DRIVING THEIR TRUCK DOWN THE SUPER NASTY AND MUDDY PERIMETER ROAD. Throwing mud everywhere, and tearing up the road. I jumped up, and started walking towards them and met them half way. They roll the window down and say, “How are ya?” :lol: Wrong question. I said, “Honestly, I am completely pissed off right now. First of all, this is the third time you guys have been out here to bug us. Do you not talk to one another? Secondly, you’re tearing the crap out of this farmers road, this is private property and you need to respect that. And lastly, you’re out here again right in the middle of prime time. Turn your truck around, get out of this field, and come see us around noon. Bring your sergeant because we’ve got a serious discussion to be had.” And I just turned around and walked away. They didn’t say a word. They just left.

What a joke. I’ve never dealt with this garbage before but it completely screwed up our hunt. Well, not completely, we still killed a grundle of birds, but it could have been better had we not had to deal with these clowns. Gotta love Utah’s F&G.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Dang fish cops anyway!

Once on a private property dispute I asked a fish and game cop what my fifth amendment protections were concerning part of the dispute--his response was "don't give me any of that lawyer Bull ****e!!" (he used a swear word :shock: ). I was sincere in my question and was taken aback at his unprofessionalism. This actually ended up really helping me in the end so in retrospect I am glad he was a dumb head  we really ought to be able to use mild swear words on this site! 

Now, take note that we are going to have about 30 posts that follow, they will be under 2 different categories:

Category 1, the apologists: Game and fish cops have a hard job, they do the best they can and you should never criticize them--ad nauseum 

Category 2, the in commons: guys like me that enjoy a good story about crappy cops, sure we know they are there to serve and protect but that doesn't mean we cannot come on a forum and complain about them--its part of the fun of being an American!

I hope your venting made you feel better--a good vent session does sometimes.


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## mallardgoose (Oct 11, 2010)

Wow, what a bunch of dumb a’s. How frustrating is that. 

Did a lot of the geese start heading north from delta, we are thinking of trying the north zone area.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

Yes, we estimated that there were anywhere from 50-60K birds in Delta for the opener. By Sunday morning we saw maybe half of that. 

I appreciate ya'll lettng me vent. It does make me feel better.  I am somewhere between both categories above usually, and I sincerely appreciate that they have a job to do that involves the public which is a challenge, but c'mon. This was extraordinarilly rediculous. We're laughing about it now, but it's just indication of who we have managing our game in Utah. I hear far too many stories like this. It should be the exception...


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for the story. That sucks man. 

The thing I wanted to say to a fish cop last summer when it gave me a ticket for expired plates on my pop-up trailer, was "So, aren't you glad you got that degree in wildlife biology - so you could run a dusty check station harassing people that just want to enjoy the outdoors? I bet that is EXACTLY the dream you had when you got that degree." 

But I've learned to hold my tongue around any kind of cops. It is just better that way. Biologists I can handle. But biologists forced to become cops just sucks for everyone. Even with a citation in hand, I still figure, "at least I don't have to wake up every day being them."


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

GaryFish said:


> gave me a ticket for expired plates on my pop-up trailer."


Utah's registration fees are a joke. Maybe if the fees were reasonable people would actually do it on time. This is one reason I am selling my 4 wheelers. $50 a year to register a ATV is a [email protected]*&*^ joke.

duckholla, sorry to hear about that mess. We had a similar thing happen down there 2 years ago with the F&G standing around in our decoys during the best part of the hunt. I understand they have a job to do and respect that, but yes it can be frustrating.


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Another Fish & Game Success Story*

Call and speak with his Sgt or LT. Crap like this should not go unreported. He needs to know this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. We have rights and it's not his job to trample them because his buddies turned you guys in.


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

well i did not see 50 60k birds in delta there were only 8000 thursday siting on res. to bad about the fish cop being jerk


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## TEX-O-BOB (Sep 12, 2007)

> we really ought to be able to use mild swear words on this site!


Oh no you don't! That would offend delicate ears. You cant even use swear words in a PM! I tried once and took a two week time out... 

You have to use LDS missionary approved swear words. These would include but aren't limited to: Fetch, flip, flippen-fecher, fechin-flippen-fecher, crud, chripes, crap, shiz, dang, dangit, bizach, beotch, heck, HE double toothpicks, and dag-nabbit. This list would also include such phrases as" Cheese-n-rice! Gotdandruff, some of it itches! And my all time favorite: You sucky sucks are the biggest bunch of suckin sucks that ever sucked!

ALL these words and phrases are Gary Fish and 2:22 approved! :mrgreen:


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## utahgolf (Sep 8, 2007)

Most of the wardens I've come across have been respectful. Same with all law enforcement but these guys have such power over us and their word is king in most cases and all law abiding citizens should be weary of that kind of power and demand transparency from these agencies and respect. I think you should make a complaint and hopefully he learns a lesson.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

TEX-O-BOB said:


> > we really ought to be able to use mild swear words on this site!
> 
> 
> Oh no you don't! That would offend delicate ears. You cant even use swear words in a PM! I tried once and took a two week time out...
> ...


You are one funny Mother Trucker, Tex!


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

richard rouleau said:


> well i did not see 50 60k birds in delta there were only 8000 thursday siting on res. to bad about the fish cop being jerk


Which reservoir are you referring to? There were waaaaay more than 8000 birds on clear lake.


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

I'm a cop, I will apologize for him and this situation, as he should have. Unfortunately, like society, theres a few in every bunch that give everyone else a bad name. When I train new guys I try and relay onto them that we are here to serve and protect, and that the average citizen will help us in that aspect if we treat them professionally. I understand it irks you to have these kinds of situations and interactions, it pisses me off a lot more as I work very hard to maintain a polite and professional reputation for my brothers behind the badge. Don't let this give you a distaste for all Law Enforcers. You should call his supervisors and speak with them about the incident. PM me if you need help getting a hold of them. I know the Lt and Sgt over that area I think, if it's still the same ones. Sounds like its one of the new guys that hasn't quite figured things out yet. As for GaryFish, dude 99% of the CO's got the degree because it was required for them to be a CO, not for anyother reason. As far as your trailer, get it licensed and you don't get a ticket, simple as that  , I mean that is what "you" are paying "us" for. I have to chuckle when people whine at me for giving them a ticket. When I pay someone to do a job I fully expect them to do that job. I understand that it sucks. I've gotten a couple tickets in my lifetime and deserved everyone. I broke the law and took the chance and paid for it. Those are the rules. The only reason we have a semi-civilized society is because we have laws that we are all responsible to abide by, all though we don't always pay when we break them. Anyway Duckholla sorry you had to deal with a bad apple, hope you don't again.


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

gunnison bend and there were not 8000 bird on clear lake


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Wow. I rarely have heard F&G stories like that. Usually and in my mind they don't do enough because they are spread out so thin. Down in Delta monitoring the snow goose hunt, I'm sure there are a few extra to go around though. 
I'm one of the opposite kind of folks I guess. I'd like to see more of them out and about keeping the honest, honest.

Don't get me wrong though.......if there's some home cookin' going on I'd been a little less cordial with the F&G man than you were. 

60,000 whities? Wow, that's a lot of birds. I've never seen many more than what I would have estimated to be about 8-10,000. Most years a lot less. I've been told I've missed the peak several times though and I might suck at estimating numbers since I cant count that high anyway :mrgreen:


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Another Fish & Game Success Story*



USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> I'm a cop, I will apologize for him and this situation, as he should have. Unfortunately, like society, theres a few in every bunch that give everyone else a bad name. When I train new guys I try and relay onto them that we are here to serve and protect, and that the average citizen will help us in that aspect if we treat them professionally. I understand it irks you to have these kinds of situations and interactions, it **** me off a lot more as I work very hard to maintain a polite and professional reputation for my brothers behind the badge. Don't let this give you a distaste for all Law Enforcers. You should call his supervisors and speak with them about the incident. PM me if you need help getting a hold of them. I know the Lt and Sgt over that area I think, if it's still the same ones. Sounds like its one of the new guys that hasn't quite figured things out yet. As for GaryFish, dude 99% of the CO's got the degree because it was required for them to be a CO, not for anyother reason. As far as your trailer, get it licensed and you don't get a ticket, simple as that  , I mean that is what "you" are paying "us" for. I have to chuckle when people whine at me for giving them a ticket. When I pay someone to do a job I fully expect them to do that job. I understand that it sucks. I've gotten a couple tickets in my lifetime and deserved everyone. I broke the law and took the chance and paid for it. Those are the rules. The only reason we have a semi-civilized society is because we have laws that we are all responsible to abide by, all though we don't always pay when we break them. Anyway Duckholla sorry you had to deal with a bad apple, hope you don't again.


Well said Marine! Every officer needs to have this attitude. Most do.


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## silentstalker (Feb 19, 2008)

I have never understood why fish cops insist on checking licenses and plugs during prime time. If they suspect something come on out and check, if not wait till the shooting dies down. It can wait. No big deal. I have had it happen more than once. 

Sorry you got jerked around. Glad to hear you still shot a bunch. There have been about 20 feeding in the city fields by my house. Pretty cool to see them. Good luck to all of you still hunting!


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## Gee LeDouche (Sep 21, 2007)

I have only had 1 bad experience with a fish cop and that was opening morning of waterfowl probably 5 years ago. He had a civilian with him who was boating him around to everyones spreads, while Im talking to the officer, the civilian asks from the background "ya got anything illegal in your boat?" as he's getting out of his boat and boarding my boat.. he starts opening my dry boxes, checking shell boxes ect ect. I told him to get out of my boat and leave me alone. That kinda rubbed me a little wrong ever since it happened.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

I have never been checked "in the field" while big game hunting. but always while waterfowl hunting... bugs the heck out of me.. and its always at the prime time they drive in with there boat and kill it for at least half an hour... bugs the heck out of me.. I understand what you mean when you have to sit there and bite your tongue. they could sure use a lesson in manners and respect.. I had a story my self where I was guilty until proven innocent... sucks they must think every guy is out to kill everything and doesn't obey laws. I have had great conversations with them in non hunting places (rack meetings and such) but I try and avoid them out in the field... just less drama tat way.. other than that sounds like you had a good hunt!!!!!


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Well ****, those of us that have been at this waterfowling thing for awhile can relate, some years back i was ordered to unload my entier boat prior to launch even with having everthing coastguard approved prior to! :evil: ... anyway, sorry to hear about it. FOR SURE the exception to the norm. Not saying youre embellishing, but id like to hear the CO's version also.



TEX-O-BOB said:


> > we really ought to be able to use mild swear words on this site!
> 
> 
> Oh no you don't! That would offend delicate ears. You cant even use swear words in a PM! I tried once and took a two week time out...
> ...


TEX, delicate ears? YEP! and with a melting temp of cheesewiz sometimes! :shock: , but did ya forget where we live bud? o-||


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

COS can be a pain in the rear end.Glad to hear you still got birds.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Tex - Love your guts man! 

Marine - I'll take my medicine like any one. I broke the law. I don't agree with that law, but I deserved the ticket. But there is more to the story I won't share. Let me just say the snarky, smart-!!!ed attitude and demeanor of the CO that accused me of tampering with evidence, and then threatened to impound my trailer and minivan because of an expired tag - just to get a laugh from the other COs standing around - really irritated me. Give me a ticket, let me on my way. I'm OK with that. But don't give me a bunch of crap to go with it. For the COs only getting a wildlife degree because they have to - if people want to be cops, good for them. I respect that. And if that is what you want to do, then be a real cop - Not one that takes a DWR job so they can get the 20 year retirement and not face the every day challenges city, county, and state cops face.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

Something I've found to be helpful is to have a voice recorder app on your phone and as soon as you know there will be contact, turn it on. I had a Box Elder Sheriff harass me for hunting on private property that I had written permission to be on that was totally unfamiliar with the laws and down right rude. His accusations ranged from trespassing, poaching, to hiding drugs when I told him I didn't consent to him searching my vehicle after he started nosing around it. Luckily I had hit the record button beforehand and had a great meeting a few days later with his higher up. If you can stay calm, cool, and collected and get audio or video of them acting like a clown it can do wonders.


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

richard rouleau said:


> gunnison bend and there were not 8000 bird on clear lake


Richard, 
Just for your information - not that it really matters much but I thought I'd share with you. The first week of the Snow Goose Festival the F&G estimated 20K birds on Gunnison alone. This was published when the very first of the migration was making its way into Delta. Two weeks later, with the migration in full, we showed up to hunt. Also, Dr. E (Biologist) from USU was in Delta conducting a study on the Snow Geese with a film crew and all and based on his study he projected on Feb 25 that there were 50K birds in Delta, this year, which was about 25K more than last year, and he said he is watching more and more come through from the south. Anyway, not that it really has anything to do with this post, but that's where I got my estimation, based on what I read and heard, not necissarily what I saw. Although, I won't argue with those numbers after what I saw. :shock:

Also - We've since had some discussions with the F&G about this incident. Nothing but a hand slap will result of the situation that occured, and I guess that's probably appropriate. I was really irritated, but it's not like I want somebody to lose their job. I hope the officers learn something from this, and in turn treats people differently in the years to come. The F&G Sarg was very apologetic, and said he would handle it. ***Edited because we've spoken with the direct sargent of this officer. He took our report and will handle it from this point forward.***

Anyway - hope this doesn't happen to anybody else in the future.


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## hotspot (Jan 12, 2009)

Guilty, until proven innocent! Following the Chinese method these days. Crazy story!


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## USMARINEhuntinfool (Sep 15, 2007)

Hmmm, well Gary, can't say much about that other than what I've said. Some guys are jack asses and give us all a bad name. I'm not sure why you don't consider them "real cops" they work as hard as I do as a State Trooper they don't get a lot of the perks that me or you do. They don't get overtime, they get crappy waiges, they deal with a lot of "*****y customers", and when they get that 20 year retirement its 50% of their waige which is *****y in the first place. They work by themselves the majority of time and are usually a half hour or more away from back up. They have every police authority that I have and receive the same basic training that I do. They are "Police Officers" in our state unlike some others. They often times deal with "every day challenges city, county, and state cops face." They have a different function much like I do. I don't deal with the every day challenges that city and county officers deal with and they don't deal with the same ones I do. I digress. There are some great CO's out there and there are some real as*hats as well. Sounds like you dealt with the latter, which sucks, but doesn't make the rest of 'em bad or "not real cops". Sorry you had to deal with that and sounds as though the CO was definitely in the wrong. If CO's or anyother cop is doing something wrong it needs to be reported. If you don't know who to contact PM me and I'll get you in contact with whoever it needs to go through, this goes for everybody. The problem won't get addressed if you don't address it and will likely result in a similar situation for someone else. Anyways, sorry you guys have had some *****y run ins. Duckholla, the Sgt. will take care of it I can assure you of that.


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## Mojo1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Nothing worst than an ******* with a badge


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## richard rouleau (Apr 12, 2008)

i think this a bs story becuse there where not 20 k birds for snow goose festival this year and there where not 50 k birds in delta this year on the 25th


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## Duckholla (Sep 24, 2007)

richard rouleau said:


> i think this a bs story becuse there where not 20 k birds for snow goose festival this year and there where not 50 k birds in delta this year on the 25th


Ok.



USMARINEhuntinfool said:


> Hmmm, well Gary, can't say much about that other than what I've said. Some guys are jack asses and give us all a bad name. I'm not sure why you don't consider them "real cops" they work as hard as I do as a State Trooper they don't get a lot of the perks that me or you do. They don't get overtime, they get crappy waiges, they deal with a lot of "*****y customers", and when they get that 20 year retirement its 50% of their waige which is *****y in the first place. They work by themselves the majority of time and are usually a half hour or more away from back up. They have every police authority that I have and receive the same basic training that I do. They are "Police Officers" in our state unlike some others. They often times deal with "every day challenges city, county, and state cops face." They have a different function much like I do. I don't deal with the every day challenges that city and county officers deal with and they don't deal with the same ones I do. I digress. There are some great CO's out there and there are some real as*hats as well. Sounds like you dealt with the latter, which sucks, but doesn't make the rest of 'em bad or "not real cops". Sorry you had to deal with that and sounds as though the CO was definitely in the wrong. If CO's or anyother cop is doing something wrong it needs to be reported. If you don't know who to contact PM me and I'll get you in contact with whoever it needs to go through, this goes for everybody. The problem won't get addressed if you don't address it and will likely result in a similar situation for someone else. Anyways, sorry you guys have had some *****y run ins. Duckholla, the Sgt. will take care of it I can assure you of that.


Marine,
Thanks for the support. I think we've got it taken care of from our standpoint, but thanks for offering to help.


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## hossblur (Jun 15, 2011)

Seems like the older CO's are much better. The young guys are all amped up on authority and there brains disapear. Had F&g driving around ogden bay and harold slough this year, of course during prime time. Talked to the supervisor and after the speech about how hard his job is, etc, etc,(Never seen a F&G job go unfilled because its so terrible), he did agree that the officer hadn't thought about what he was doing, and more importantly WHEN they do it. I think thats usually when I have problems with them, WHEN they do something. The badge seems to block the brain in the newer guys. Took you guys 3 hours to set up, did he think you were going to up and run? Wait till flight times over.
A few years back we were muzzleloading, we hiked off a mtn down onto a road to be picked up. Apparently the road was closed(no marking, no sign, cattlemen had been in it putting out salt). Anyway they waited for us to get out. We were camped across the valley so they followed us to our camp to give out tickets. Older guy gets out, comes over, we argue about the road being closed but in the end he says its his job. His new green partner(a woman, nothing wrong with that) stays back a way, hand on her glock ready to pull down. I walked over and quietly explained to her she was in no danger in out camp, to relax, but to realize that there were 18 of us, each armed, and two of them, she wouldn't stand a chance, SHE WAS BEING STUPID. In the mean time older CO comes back over, hears what I say, gives her a look, and they leave him shaking his head.
Took the tickets to court, beat all of them, seems the judge didn't like getting his sheep herders ticketed that day, and thought newly closed roads should be marked.


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## Fish2relax (Mar 3, 2011)

I have to admit that every time I have been checked they have been respectful also. Hunting private land on the Bear River in December, we had 2 Fish & Game law enforcement officers walk up on us. They did their job of checking our bird numbers, licenses, guns, shells and then just had a good conversation with us. They even took time to pose for a picture with our group. I'm thinking you just got the exception, not the rule.


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## duckhunter1096 (Sep 25, 2007)

Harassment or not... They're doin' their jobs. YES, this guy sounds like the ultimate in Massengill products... But nonetheless... I love the one on the first page about getting cited for an expired registration... Don't break the "Fetch"ing laws, and you won't have to worry about paying the "Fetching Freakin'" fines... easy as that... dumb bums.


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