# Super Bowl Predictions?



## sawsman

I'll be pulling for the Seahawks. Would like to see them finally win one, plus I've never been a Donkey fan.

I'll say win for Seattle, 23 - 20.

.


----------



## outdoorser

I'm definitely gonna say Denver will win, but i'm not necessarily rooting for them.


----------



## Fowlmouth

I would be thrilled if the Seahawks win, but I'm going with Denver 34-17


----------



## LostLouisianian

I'm gonna go out on a limb and boldly predict that the team with the most points will win !:grin:


----------



## Al Hansen

I've never been a Denver fan until Manning got the boot from the Colts. I wanted him to do well. Maybe it's his age or his work ethic. Go Broncos.


----------



## GaryFish

Considering that teams from the two states that legalized recreational weed are playing, it gives a whole new meaning to the term "Super Bowl." 

Seattle by 5.


----------



## OKEE

My prediction #1 Sherman will be schooled by manning and the Denver receiver's. Prediction #2 Sherman will seek counseling after the super bowl and realize he's not the best Dback in the league. Prediction #3 Denver wins by a Blow out . Prediction #4 At least one Doritos/Beer commercials will make you wet yourself. Prediction #5 Denvers after super bowl game celebration they will rename Mile high stadium "Everybody High stadium".


----------



## Wind In His Hair

I'm rooting for Denver, even though I don't normally do so. With the kind of season Peyton Manning has had this year, a Super Bowl win would be the cherry on top. He's got a great attitude and work ethic, and brings a lot of class to the team.


----------



## wyoming2utah

My bold prediction--a lot of forty-whiners including fans, players, and coaches! So, regardless of who wins, it will be a good day!


----------



## utahgolf

the broncos will win and the seattle fans will whine and blame the refs and never quit talking about it. Just like their last superbowl appearance.


----------



## Dodger

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the halftime show will suck, as usual.


----------



## RandomElk16

OKEE said:


> My prediction #1 Sherman will be schooled by manning and the Denver receiver's. Prediction #2 Sherman will seek counseling after the super bowl and realize he's not the best Dback in the league. Prediction #3 Denver wins by a Blow out . Prediction #4 At least one Doritos/Beer commercials will make you wet yourself. Prediction #5 Denvers after super bowl game celebration they will rename Mile high stadium "Everybody High stadium".


I will put money against you on all of those except #4! People think Seattle fans are crazy and niners whine, but the people who go the complete opposite direction are crazier. Lets talk about one of the least targeted DB's who also led the league in interceptions and is on an insane pace over 3 seasons, especially the past two. Keep in mind the total yards the hawks allow.

I will make some bold predictions, why not.

1. Seattle by 5 or less.

2. Broncos under 275 yards passing. Under 350 total offensive yards. That would be one of the biggest game against the hawks, but not enough.

3. Seattle over 250 yards passing. Over 100 yards rushing.

4. A Lynch td but no Moreno td.

My two cents. I have enjoyed Manning's season, but that doesn't mean I believe he will "school" one of the top 5 DB's in the league. Not to mention chancellor. He will benefit from an inside, short passing game. And whoever tee's off with maxwell. Test chancellor or sherman, dare ya


----------



## El Casador

Sherman should have kept his mouth shut and excepted the win like a pro! instead he gets thug! with it on national tv and looks like a loud mouth chump! Im a die hard lions fan! so after seeing Shermans interview:shock: Go Broncos!8).


----------



## 300MAG

Denver all the way.


----------



## RandomElk16

El Casador said:


> Sherman should have kept his mouth shut and excepted the win like a pro! instead he gets thug! with it on national tv and looks like a loud mouth chump! Im a die hard lions fan! so after seeing Shermans interview:shock: Go Broncos!8).


You root for a team that has the dirtiest player in the Nfl(opinion and polls) and critique Sherman? Haha.

I remember when football had man playing it. Back before the Roger reign and Brady protection rules, and political nonsense.


----------



## wyoming2utah

El Casador said:


> Sherman should have kept his mouth shut and excepted the win like a pro! instead he gets thug! with it on national tv and looks like a loud mouth chump! Im a die hard lions fan! so after seeing Shermans interview:shock: Go Broncos!8).


Oh....like most "pros" do? One thing I have learned from watching pro football is that it is ok to taunt the opponent and celebrate after tackles, after first downs, and definitely after tds....why in the heck isn't it ok to celebrate and taunt the opposing players after a championship?

The reality is that Sherman didn't say anything that wasn't true--Crabtree is NOT an elite wideout. What exactly has the guy ever done to deserve that kind of credibility? Also, I would bet big money that Sherman's rant after the game was the result of Crabtree's mouth throughout the year.

And speaking of loudmouth chumps, did you see/hear what Kaeperdick was doing and saying following the forty-whiners win over the panthers?


----------



## RandomElk16

This^^^

There is so much going on people don't see. They got to see an adrenaline filled player right after the biggest game of his career. Watch his press conference live today and tell me he is a thug.


----------



## outdoorser

Its just like the BYU vs. Utah game....there always has to be controversy. 
It just makes the game all the more fun to watch


----------



## utahgolf

denvers offense is good enough to at least score a few on that tremendous seattle D. But seattles offense is way tooooooo iffy. Wilson ya never know what you'll get out of him and you're putting a lot of hope that lynch breaks free a few times.


----------



## GaryFish

Lombardi is oft quoted as saying "Defense wins championships." Then again, Lombardi never coached in today's league, where it is almost a penalty to even tackle anyone any more. Back then, there was no pass interference, no face masking, no targeting, no roughing the passer, and barely any holding. Those things were just called football.


----------



## RandomElk16

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10334062

The press conference was better than I imagined. Here are some highlights. He even addressed the Thug title. He is incredibly intelligent, and the way he addresses the game and the Denver offense, its wonderful. Worth watching if you can find a replay.

Utahgolf, you are right about the offense. Thing is, they have been going against tough Nfc defenses. If the right Wilson is there, and with Percy albeit, they shouldn't have a hard time with the Broncos D. Lynch should be fine.

BUT!!!! It is the superbowl! Anything can happen in any given game, especially post season.

Edit: top of page 2 times in 2 days, wooooomp wooommmp.


----------



## GaryFish

So I read the other day that the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, Nebraska has now named some furry zoo creature after Peyton Manning, because he repeatedly shouts "Omaha" as an audible call. 

My thought is, Seriously Omaha? That is the kind of thing that gets you excited? Hearing Peyton Manning yell the name of your city? Are you really THAT insecure? I can't imagine what would happen in Idaho if Manning yelled "Boise! Boise!" instead.

And Random - nice top of page! 2-4-2.


----------



## El Casador

RandomElk16 said:


> You root for a team that has the dirtiest player in the Nfl(opinion and polls) and critique Sherman? Haha.
> 
> I remember when football had man playing it. Back before the Roger reign and Brady protection rules, and political nonsense.


 Correct Suh is dirty ,however he doesn't run his chops! when he does it!


----------



## RandomElk16

El Casador said:


> Correct Suh is dirty ,however he doesn't run his chops! when he does it!


Him and Roddy White's beef? Him and the Packer's beef? Let's keep in mind Sherman was on the football field, right after the big game. What has Suh done on the field?

-ripped off Cutler's helmet, exchanged words "when he did it"
-kicked Schaub in the groin
-spit tabasco gum in the face of Vikings center

After the Schaub incident, Coach Cunningham bashed Schaub and the Texans. That was off the field.

So, on the beautiful green grass we see many Sundays, whose conduct is worse? Sherman is a thug, but Suh gets to rip helmets off and nut kick? Come on man...

Edit: I didn't even scratch the surface on Suh. The more I think, the more incidents come to mind. This is football, Sherman had passion, said some things while his blood was pumping. I believe his conduct since then speaks greatly about the man. Unlike repeat offenders of down right dirty conduct. His talk wasn't from no where, Crabtree earned it. Personally, I an sick of hearing and seeing players act how Roger wants them to, out of play that is. Raw emotion is good for the sport. Can you honestly say you don't miss rivalries?


----------



## El Casador

RandomElk16 said:


> Him and Roddy White's beef? Him and the Packer's beef? Let's keep in mind Sherman was on the football field, right after the big game. What has Suh done on the field?
> 
> -ripped off Cutler's helmet, exchanged words "when he did it"
> -kicked Schaub in the groin
> -spit tabasco gum in the face of Vikings center
> 
> After the Schaub incident, Coach Cunningham bashed Schaub and the Texans. That was off the field.
> 
> So, on the beautiful green grass we see many Sundays, whose conduct is worse? Sherman is a thug, but Suh gets to rip helmets off and nut kick? Come on man...
> 
> Edit: I didn't even scratch the surface on Suh. The more I think, the more incidents come to mind. This is football, Sherman had passion, said some things while his blood was pumping. I believe his conduct since then speaks greatly about the man. Unlike repeat offenders of down right dirty conduct. His talk wasn't from no where, Crabtree earned it. Personally, I an sick of hearing and seeing players act how Roger wants them to, out of play that is. Raw emotion is good for the sport. Can you honestly say you don't miss rivalries?


 U should be a Nfl anaylst or writer u know your stuff Dude. also I never said he was or is a thug I said "he went thug with it" as far as off the field goes ya, I know about all the good things he does 8).


----------



## utahgolf

I was upset about shermans actions cause I'm a niners fan but sherman isn't a thug! He's very very smart at realizing the nature of the beast. There aren't many DB's that gain attention or fame. Sherman marketed himself very well and is setting himself up for life after football as well. I can imagine all the funny ads he'll do and sportscenter commercials of him in the office yelling etc...


----------



## GaryFish

Sherman is Deon Sanders reincarnate. 

Nice perspective utahgolf. Remember the commercials with Terry Tate: Office Linebacker? (If you don't just search YouTube and you'll find them.That would be AWESOME with Sherman.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Broncos Habanero Pickled Eggs.

Broncos 35 Seahawks 21


----------



## wyogoob

Broncos 36 Seahawks 33 in overtime.

I don't come over here very often; too hard to get the top of the page.


----------



## sawsman

I got on one of those board/pool thingy's.. now I dont care who wins, just that the numbers are right. :grin:

.


----------



## brookieguy1

First team to 13 points wins, and that team will be Denver. 
I don't dare, but somebody needs to slap Sherman right in the mouth.


----------



## Bax*

Im gonna go out on a limb here, but I predict that someone will win :mrgreen:


----------



## Yote238

Peyton Manning!!! Go broncos


----------



## El Casador

Broncos 31 seattle 28 .


----------



## Loke

One team will win, the other will whine, the officiating will suck, as will most of the commercials. The halftime show will be pornografic (or as close as you can get on network television), and overshadow the football game (which is only being played so there will be a halftime for the show, and time slots for the commercials.)
Hopefully the weather will cooperate, and a Nor'easter will blow in and make it interesting.


----------



## Packfish

I like Manning and I have always disliked Denver- I think Manning is a class act but so is Russel Wilson- the deciding factor will be an Aggie playing for Seattle- GO Hawks


----------



## Dunkem

A hawk can ride a horse, but can a horse ride a hawk?


----------



## GaryFish

Truth be told, I'm kind of tired of Manning. I know it is blasphemy to suggest, but I think the guy is overrated. Best ever? Not hardly. Not even close in my book. Not even best of his generation of colleagues. His little brother, not nearly as good by nearly all accounts, is 2-0 in Super Bowls. Peyton has won as many Super Bowls as legendary figures like Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, and even Steve Young. And sure, those guys were all one-hit wonders. To be among the greatest ever at that position, a guy should at least get there often enough to be significant, and win more than the anomalies. The comparisons with Manning and Brady are a joke. This is Manning's 3rd - Brady's started in 5, winning 3. Heck, during Manning's career, Roth-lets-rape-her has won two! So Manning's play-off record is 9-11, with 8 seasons losing his first play-off game. Brady's post season record is 18-8 - so he's won nearly as many play-off games as Manning has played! The best players of all time win when it matters most. So until that happens, Manning is just another Dilfer or Hostetler. Because at this point, he only has one more super bowl ring than I do!

Go Seahawks!


----------



## Joefox

Best def vs best off? Hmmm I go for defense.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

GaryFish said:


> Truth be told, I'm kind of tired of Manning. I know it is blasphemy to suggest, but I think the guy is overrated. Best ever? Not hardly. Not even close in my book. Not even best of his generation of colleagues. His little brother, not nearly as good by nearly all accounts, is 2-0 in Super Bowls. Peyton has won as many Super Bowls as legendary figures like Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, and even Steve Young. And sure, those guys were all one-hit wonders. To be among the greatest ever at that position, a guy should at least get there often enough to be significant, and win more than the anomalies. The comparisons with Manning and Brady are a joke. This is Manning's 3rd - Brady's started in 5, winning 3. Heck, during Manning's career, Roth-lets-rape-her has won two! So Manning's play-off record is 9-11, with 8 seasons losing his first play-off game. Brady's post season record is 18-8 - so he's won nearly as many play-off games as Manning has played! The best players of all time win when it matters most. So until that happens, Manning is just another Dilfer or Hostetler. Because at this point, he only has one more super bowl ring than I do!
> 
> Go Seahawks!


Aside from the shear fact that there are 22 positions required to field a football team (special teams excluded) that is just nuts. By your logic Charles Haley must be the greatest player of all time. Bill Romanowski and Matt Millen are the best LB's of all time and Kevin Faulk is three times better than Marshall Faulk ever was.


----------



## GaryFish

But we all know, the QB is THE most important player on the field. I didn't compare Manning to inside linebackers. Just to other QBs. The QB is THE leader of the team. He makes EVERY play happen. No position is more important in football. And if Manning is to be considered among the best QBs ever, he needs to win more titles than Trent Dilfer. This isn't soccer. There is no capri sun or orange slices after the season is over. Titles are everything in comparing the most important position on the field.


----------



## MKP

What are your thoughts on Marino?


----------



## GaryFish

Boyaaa! Top of page.

Marnio? Empty numbers. Not among the greatest QBs ever. Not among the greatest QBs of his time. Accurate passer? Absolutely. But a guy that good that only made it to one super bowl? And I don't want to hear about supporting staff or coaching. Brady's Patriots have been made up of has beens and almost all stars, or never will be's. And he's taken five teams to the Super Bowl, winning three of them. Elway took five teams, winning two, and Elway played in the same era as Marino. He was good, maybe even great. But among the greatest ever? Not even close.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

GaryFish said:


> But we all know, the QB is THE most important player on the field. I didn't compare Manning to inside linebackers. Just to other QBs. The QB is THE leader of the team. He makes EVERY play happen. No position is more important in football. And if Manning is to be considered among the best QBs ever, he needs to win more titles than Trent Dilfer. This isn't soccer. There is no capri sun or orange slices after the season is over. Titles are everything in comparing the most important position on the field.


Wrong he make every offensive play happen and only when he is on the field. That is unless you have a great offensive line (Dilfer) a coordinator that would rather run because he has a better runnigback than QB (Dilfer) and quite possibly the greatest defense in the history of football (Dilfer). At that point it is the QB's job to hand off the ball and not screw things up. (Dilfer was 12 for 26 with 153 yards, and the Ravens offense was 3 of 16 on third downs. Lucky for him he was playing against Kerry Collins who through 4 interceptions while going 15-39 and 2 of 14 on third downs) Also a QB is never involved when he is on the sideline and the defense or special teams are on the field. The Ravens were

Football is the ultimate team sport. If you think that Manning is no better than Dilfer or not as good as Eli.........sorry..........your nuts. You should focus on another sport. Football is not your thing.


----------



## brookieguy1

Come on Guys. What about the take-a-hit, pin-point precision of the almighty Joe Montana? Good Hell who was Steve Young? Nothing in comparison I don't care what the silly stats show. Joe Montana was the perfect QB. 
Peyton's real close, if not by skill, by ethics. Denver will win, by the hand of Sir Peyton.
BTW, I don't like the Niners.


----------



## GaryFish

Manning is great. Marino was great. Just not in the conversation with Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, or Elway. And until he wins multiple titles, along with all the great regular season gawdy statistics, he won't be among the greatest ever. Heck, Tebow won a play-off game with the donkeys. And he can't buy a job sniffing an NFL football. 

I get that football is the ultimate team sport. But at the same time, the QB is THE most important player on the team in that team sport. And if the best contribution is to not screw it up because you have Terrell Davis to hand the ball to and a solid defense, then so be it. But that is where the GREATEST ever separate themselves from the one-hit wonders. That is why Brady is among the greatest ever, and Dilfer, Williams, Rypien are not. 

And if Manning loses on Sunday, then he is Kurt Warner. If he wins, then he surpasses Steve Young and Jim McMahon and is along side Elway. Win one more after that, and then in the same group as Brady and close to Montana and Bradshaw.

Don't get me wrong. Manning is great. I've been a fan. I'm just tired of his act. After 17 years, it gets old. And couple that with 8 first round losses, and I'm not sure how any one that knows the game of football can't at least see that regular season success with play-off choking keeps a guy out of the "greatest ever" discussion.


----------



## utahgolf

GaryFish said:


> Manning is great. Marino was great. Just not in the conversation with Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, or Elway. And until he wins multiple titles, along with all the great regular season gawdy statistics, he won't be among the greatest ever. Heck, Tebow won a play-off game with the donkeys. And he can't buy a job sniffing an NFL football.
> 
> I get that football is the ultimate team sport. But at the same time, the QB is THE most important player on the team in that team sport. And if the best contribution is to not screw it up because you have Terrell Davis to hand the ball to and a solid defense, then so be it. But that is where the GREATEST ever separate themselves from the one-hit wonders. That is why Brady is among the greatest ever, and Dilfer, Williams, Rypien are not.
> 
> And if Manning loses on Sunday, then he is Kurt Warner. If he wins, then he surpasses Steve Young and Jim McMahon and is along side Elway. Win one more after that, and then in the same group as Brady and close to Montana and Bradshaw.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. Manning is great. I've been a fan. I'm just tired of his act. After 17 years, it gets old. And couple that with 8 first round losses, and I'm not sure how any one that knows the game of football can't at least see that regular season success with play-off choking keeps a guy out of the "greatest ever" discussion.


 you lost me on the Bradshaw thing. If you had to pick one quarterback in their prime to start a franchise with today, you ain't picking Bradshaw over manning and marino.


----------



## RandomElk16

I think his is all funny now. How good of a QB is eli? Mr 20+ interceptions. He has two rings. How good is flacco this year vs last? You basically threw out a ton of stats supporting mannings consistency. Playoffs and superbowls are not regular season. Anything can happen. Last year Fox lost them the playoffs by choosing to waste 30 premium seconds. You have to have balls in the playoffs and superbowl to win. Go for it all.

I could write a 50 page post to support manning and counter argue what really wins games. I will sum it up... If QB is most important, the seahawks aren't in the superbowl.


----------



## GaryFish

You are right about the play-offs, and how anything can happen. The most freakish catch in the history of the game has Brady at 3 instead of 4, and a perfect season. So there is that. But the fact remains, Manning chokes in the play-offs. Sugar coat it however you want. Sure, there are flukes, and one-hit wonders. But over an 18 year career, there are trends and patterns. And those patterns are - Manning is 8-11 in the play-offs. Not what one of the greatest QBs would have. 

Manning is likable, and a great guy in commercials and everything else. But until he moves past Doug Williams and Brad Johnson on the Super Bowl count, he is not among the greatest ever. 

As for Bradshaw - he was the best in his day. Same with Montana. Go back to Sammy Baugh, perhaps the greatest football player to ever play. But those were different eras, so the question of who would you build a franchise around right now is a lame point at best. Bradshaw won four Super Bowls in what was it, six years? He was the greatest QB of the 70s. Montana won four as the greatest in the 80s. Elway led his team to 5 - winning 2 in the 80s and 90s. Brady got 5 winning 3 in the last 15 years. These guys did that in an era when teams are not supposed to be dynasties. And they did it with a variety of supporting casts. Manning has not. At least not yet. See where things land on Sunday against a defense tougher than the Raiders.


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> You are right about the play-offs, and how anything can happen. The most freakish catch in the history of the game has Brady at 3 instead of 4, and a perfect season. So there is that. But the fact remains, Manning chokes in the play-offs. Sugar coat it however you want. Sure, there are flukes, and one-hit wonders. But over an 18 year career, there are trends and patterns. And those patterns are - Manning is 8-11 in the play-offs. Not what one of the greatest QBs would have.
> 
> Manning is likable, and a great guy in commercials and everything else. But until he moves past Doug Williams and Brad Johnson on the Super Bowl count, he is not among the greatest ever.
> 
> As for Bradshaw - he was the best in his day. Same with Montana. Go back to Sammy Baugh, perhaps the greatest football player to ever play. But those were different eras, so the question of who would you build a franchise around right now is a lame point at best. Bradshaw won four Super Bowls in what was it, six years? He was the greatest QB of the 70s. Montana won four as the greatest in the 80s. Elway led his team to 5 - winning 2 in the 80s and 90s. Brady got 5 winning 3 in the last 15 years. These guys did that in an era when teams are not supposed to be dynasties. And they did it with a variety of supporting casts. Manning has not. At least not yet. See where things land on Sunday against a defense tougher than the Raiders.


Choke in the big games, yes. But overall, he holds or is tied for 55 quarterback records. He is one of the best quarterbacks of all time. Next you will tell me how bad Drew Brees sucks....

Look just to save me time, go to his wiki and look under awards and records. You keep talking brady... Manning has the most wins in the 2000's, most touchdowns in that era, most yards in that era.. Most postseason games over 300 yards..

There are hundreds of stats to support him. Not to mention you argueing that the only player with 4 MVP's, soon to be 5, is not an elite or best qb. Its just silly. Teams win, teams lose. He has carried a lot of weight on his own. It is just a ridiculous statement.


----------



## GaryFish

And what do you think he'd rather have? 55 QB records? or 4 Super Bowl titles?

How can there even BE 55 QB records? Highest completion percentage on 3rd and 14 in night games on artificial turf in the central time zone? Most passing yards against AFC west teams in odd numbered years? Most times yelling "Omaha" in a game on 2nd and 2? People in Nebraska don't even yell Omaha! Is one of them "Most play-off losses by QB that makes $10 million in product endorsements?" 

I like Brees. Good guy, and good QB. But not anywhere near the conversation of best ever. At least not yet. Time will tell.


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> And what do you think he'd rather have? 55 QB records? or 4 Super Bowl titles?
> 
> How can there even BE 55 QB records? Highest completion percentage on 3rd and 14 in night games on artificial turf in the central time zone? Most passing yards against AFC west teams in odd numbered years? Most times yelling "Omaha" in a game on 2nd and 2? People in Nebraska don't even yell Omaha! Is one of them "Most play-off losses by QB that makes $10 million in product endorsements?"
> 
> I like Brees. Good guy, and good QB. But not anywhere near the conversation of best ever. At least not yet. Time will tell.


Even though Brees is the only qb with more than one 5000 yard season(4) and fastest player to throw for 50,000 yards? And has one of "your precious" rings. (Laugh, its a lord of rings ref).

We aren't talking about what he would rather have. It takes a team to win a superbowl. Thats what me and mule are saying. We are also saying that if the best qb's TEAM does not succeed, that doesn't take away from him. If you compare him, positionally, to other qb's he is the best. Because although rings is one column(one that has more weight in the FRANCHISE(team  ) category, he owns most all the other columns.

I can't type anymore. You weight it on rings, thats your opinion. I can name plenty of POS players with multiple rings.... But, they are the best!


----------



## GaryFish

The Brees example of 5,000 is an interesting one. Wasn't it before 3 years ago, the last QB to throw for over 4,000 was Marino? And then in one season, Brees, Brady, Manning, and Rogers all did it? All the rules are so pass-happy in today's game, so its like comparing home run totals in baseball. Things are so skewed today, you can't compare it. Montana never sniffed 4,000 yards. Neither did Bradshaw. Brady has. Did Elway ever pass for 4,000? 

Championships are the great equalizer though. They tell you not who threw for yards, but who won games, and who won under the most pressure. I've not seen a football game yet where the team with the most yards was declared winner because of that alone. Scoreboards don't show yards.

And you are absolutely right - lots of players have multiple Super Bowl titles, that are not among the greatest ever. But in the discussion of the greatest ever, at the toughest position in the best sport, what should be the litmus? If not championships, then what? What would you say would be the measuring stick for the greatest QBs of all time?


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> The Brees example of 5,000 is an interesting one. Wasn't it before 3 years ago, the last QB to throw for over 4,000 was Marino? And then in one season, Brees, Brady, Manning, and Rogers all did it? All the rules are so pass-happy in today's game, so its like comparing home run totals in baseball. Things are so skewed today, you can't compare it. Montana never sniffed 4,000 yards. Neither did Bradshaw. Brady has. Did Elway ever pass for 4,000?


Dan did it first in 84. Brees has done it 4 times.

Edit: To clarify, I mean that Dan threw for 5,000, not 4,000. So next I point out Brees has broke 5,000 in 4 different seasons.



> Championships are the great equalizer though. They tell you not who threw for yards, but who won games, and who won under the most pressure. I've not seen a football game yet where the team with the most yards was declared winner because of that alone. Scoreboards don't show yards.


From 2000 to 2009 manning has the most wins in regular season and most in regular + post. Championships don't tell that. He also has 10 seasons with more than 12 wins, 7 of which are in a row. He is the second winningest quarterback in nfl history behind favre, but has a higher win %. Your paragraph only backs up that teams win superbowls, and regardless of how great the QB, teams lose superbowls.



> If not championships, then what? What would you say would be the measuring stick for the greatest QBs of all time?


55 NFL records.


----------



## RandomElk16

P.S. I am not saying best of all time. I am just saying to exclude him from that discussion is ridiculous. That is the point I believed I have proven. He is top 3.


----------



## Packfish

Johnny U


----------



## GaryFish

Top 3? Hmmm.
I'd put Bradshaw, Montana, and Brady ahead of him. And a very close tie with Manning and Elway. 

Greatest ever? Not now. Not yet.


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> Top 3? Hmmm.
> I'd put Bradshaw, Montana, and Brady ahead of him. And a very close tie with Manning and Elway.
> 
> Greatest ever? Not now. Not yet.


He is better than bradshaw and brady. Brady is a great qb, but has also had the great organization and coach behind him. And i will say some luck. Sure it is cool that he can win in the last minute, but that is a crappy place to put your team. Numbers equal consistancy. I think a great quarterback is consistant. Manning is one of, if not the most consistant ever. Montana and marino, or trade one for JU if you must, then manning for top 3.


----------



## GaryFish

The 55 records is a great thing. It really is. But then again, at one point, Ty Detmer held 59 NCAA records. And as much of a BYU homer as I am, I'll not begin to even suggest he is the greatest college QB to ever play. He started more games than most guys, against a lot of bad teams, and cranked up some gawdy stats. Good enough to win a Heisman. And lose three bowl games ( I know he tied Iowa in the 91 Holiday Bowl. But this is football, not a soccer. A tie is a loss.) But lots of NCAA records. Right? Must mean he's the best college QB ever???? I don't think so.


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> The 55 records is a great thing. It really is. But then again, at one point, Ty Detmer held 59 NCAA records. And as much of a BYU homer as I am, I'll not begin to even suggest he is the greatest college QB to ever play. He started more games than most guys, against a lot of bad teams, and cranked up some gawdy stats. Good enough to win a Heisman. And lose three bowl games ( I know he tied Iowa in the 91 Holiday Bowl. But this is football, not a soccer. A tie is a loss.) But lots of NCAA records. Right? Must mean he's the best college QB ever???? I don't think so.


This isn't soccer, but it also isn't college. Its the NFL bro... You compete with all the could be, shoulda beens, and are's. And statistically, he is the best. You said he is not even close. You may never think he is the best, but your not even close has been proved wrong up and down bud! He broke all the records of the qb's you mention except for Superbowl. The ravens won last year, tampa has won, eli has won... It isnt exactly the judge all. Who are the best college qb's? Most top drafts arent from the winning team.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

If it is about the playoffs and Superbowls, it should stand to reason that the great ones would save their best for those games then right?

Bradshaw is ranked 26th all time in post season play with regards to total QB rating. Tom Brady is 12th, Manning is 9th, Montana is 5th.................Dilfer isn't even in the top 50........IT TAKES A TEAM.


----------



## RandomElk16

Mr Muleskinner said:


> If it is about the playoffs and Superbowls, it should stand to reason that the great ones would save their best for those games then right?
> 
> Bradshaw is ranked 26th all time in post season play with regards to total QB rating. Tom Brady is 12th, Manning is 9th, Montana is 5th.................Dilfer isn't even in the top 50........IT TAKES A TEAM.


Nope... Manning isn't better than Brady! Brady has more rings! Report that site


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm


----------



## OKEE

Bradshaw and Montana are both 4-0 in the super bowl Brady is 3-2. . I think if manning does win the super that should put him up top with some of the elite. To win the super bowl with two different teams has to say something. Bradshaw and Montana was with the same team in their super bowl wins. Personally my favorite is Kurt Warner the greatest show on earth.


----------



## RandomElk16

Mr Muleskinner said:


> http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm


It was a joke mule! I referenced his ring count ha


----------



## GaryFish

Consistency? 
Bradshaw WON four Super Bowls in six years, and made it to the AFC Title game in one of the off years. That's pretty darn consistent. 
Its taken Manning 18 years to get to a third.
Brady WON three in four years. Consistent? Led his team to an undefeated season leading into the Super Bowl. And led his team to the AFC title game 8 times in 13 seasons.
Is that consistent?
Montana WON four Super Bowls in nine years, and was in the NFC title game two additional years. Is that consistent?
Manning has led three teams to the Superbowl in 17 seasons, and the AFC title game in two others - so 5 AFC Title games in 17 years. 

Manning is consistent. Consistent at putting up yards. Consistent at completing passes. And after losing 8 first round play-off games, consistent at choking when it matters.


----------



## GaryFish

QB rating? That's funny stuff right there.
Here's a good article both for, and against the case for Manning as among the greatest ever.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/01/28/keidel-whos-manning-the-helm-better-than-peyton/


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> Consistency?
> Bradshaw WON four Super Bowls in six years, and made it to the AFC Title game in one of the off years. That's pretty darn consistent.
> Its taken Manning 18 years to get to a third.
> Brady WON three in four years. Consistent? Led his team to an undefeated season leading into the Super Bowl. And led his team to the AFC title game 8 times in 13 seasons.
> Is that consistent?
> Montana WON four Super Bowls in nine years, and was in the NFC title game two additional years. Is that consistent?
> Manning has led three teams to the Superbowl in 17 seasons, and the AFC title game in two others - so 5 AFC Title games in 17 years.
> 
> Manning is consistent. Consistent at putting up yards. Consistent at completing passes. And after losing 8 first round play-off games, consistent at choking when it matters.


Consistant at being a quarterback is different than a team being consistant. Back then teams stayed together. A team went to the superbowl multiple times, not a qb. Put brady on another team and see what you get.


----------



## GaryFish

So where would guys like Tarkington and Kelly be? Each led teams there four times but never could get it done in the big game. For that matter, Elway was there 3 times before finally getting it done on the legs of TD.


----------



## GaryFish

Brady on another team? I don't know. Seems to me he's been THE constant thing about the Patriots. That team turns over more often than the kids at McDonalds. But Brady keeps on winning.

And back then? Hasn't your boy Manning been in the league longer than Brady? Haven't their careers overlapped for ALL of Brady's career?


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Brady keeps winning..........I thought you were talking* Superbowl* *WINS*. Something Brady has not been doing for the past 8 years........Not taking anything away from the guy, he is in my opinion in the top 4, but why is it that for all his greatness and playing with nobody's like:

Dan Koppen, Aaron Hernandez, Jerod Mayo, Asante Samuel, David Givens, Logan Mankins, Lawyer Milloy, Corey Dillon, Willie McGinest, Richard Seymour, Mike Vrabel, Rob Gronkowski, Vince Wilfork, Matt Light, Adam Vinatieri, Rodney Harrison, Deion Branch, Randy Moss, Ty Law, Wes Welker, Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi

Why has he not got it done in 8 years? I will tell you why........he hasn't had THE TEAM to do it and most of the best players he has ever played with and won Superbowls with have been long gone. He needs help. Every QB does. Some more than others.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Personally I don't put Tarkenton or Kelly in the top 10 ever.


----------



## GaryFish

Nice top of page Mr. Muleskinner. So take away Brady's two losses to the Giants. He still has three times as many Superbowl wins as Manning. And call one of the three holding penalties on the Giants on the David Tyree catch, and Brady would have the only undefeated season since the 72 Dolphins.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Should have, would have, could have's..........you can't take away losses too can you? Top that off with missed calls as if those don't go both ways???????????? Do I smell a man crush?:grin:


----------



## GaryFish

No man crush. Really, I'm not a fan of the Patriots, or of Brady really. Just hard to argue with the career the guy has put together. And truth be known, over the last 15 years, I've been more of a Manning fan than a Brady fan. And I have to say, I do watch either of them every single chance I get, because it is fun to watch greatness. There are a few players in today's NFL I'll go out of my way to watch - Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rogers at the top of that list.


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> Brady on another team? I don't know. Seems to me he's been THE constant thing about the Patriots. That team turns over more often than the kids at McDonalds. But Brady keeps on winning.
> 
> And back then? Hasn't your boy Manning been in the league longer than Brady? Haven't their careers overlapped for ALL of Brady's career?


I ment back in bradshaw days.. I looked and glancing can tell that of the starters feom 75 to 80 here are the numbers:

4 ring players: 8
3 ring players:5
2 ring player: 15

Note... 4 of the 5: 3 ring starters actually started more than half the games in a 4th season but not all. Not sure if they finished or started season.

So you have more than 12 players with 4 rings of your 26 starters counting special teams? And lots of the 4 special teams players are doubled. So pretty much half your team was the same over that period. I would be shocked if most the 2 ring werent actually on the active roster other years and have more than 2 rings. 90% of these guys were drafted by the steelers. Back then, you built teams not players. And you stuck together. Therefore Bradshaw alone was not great, but the team of the late 70's, as a whole, was.

Now days having rings is harder. I give Brady some credit, but Manning deserves a ton. He is an amazing qb. And the last 2 seasons he happens to have a good team to work with. But he has had more winning seasons than anyone, no matter his roster.


----------



## GaryFish

The more winning seasons than anyone - That happens when you start in the league for 18 years or whatever it is. That is extremely rare. And that is part of the reason I don't buy into a bunch of the records stuff. Hang around long enough, and play more games than anyone, and those things will add up. Look at Favre - most consecutive starts, and most interceptions. And one Super Bowl victory. Montana had back and concussion issues that cut his time short. And Manning has had his share of injuries as well. Coming back from the neck issues is pretty amazing. He IS amazing. I get that. Best ever? Not so sure. Top 5? Absolutely. Based on the campared bodies of work, I do think Brady is ahead of Manning. But that's what makes discussions such as this enjoyable.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

There you go. I can take top 5. 

Montana, Elway, Unitas, Manning, Brady are my top 5. Not necessarily in that order but I would not argue with anybody that claimed that one of those 5 is the best of all time. I don't think anybody else could be argued as the best though. Just my opinion. 

Manning's longevity is part of his greatness to me.


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> The more winning seasons than anyone - That happens when you start in the league for 18 years or whatever it is. That is extremely rare. And that is part of the reason I don't buy into a bunch of the records stuff. Hang around long enough, and play more games than anyone, and those things will add up. Look at Favre - most consecutive starts, and most interceptions. And one Super Bowl victory. Montana had back and concussion issues that cut his time short. And Manning has had his share of injuries as well. Coming back from the neck issues is pretty amazing. He IS amazing. I get that. Best ever? Not so sure. Top 5? Absolutely. Based on the campared bodies of work, I do think Brady is ahead of Manning. But that's what makes discussions such as this enjoyable.


You do know Brady was knly drafted 2 years after Manning right? He doesnt just hold the all time records but also single season. He has 10 seasons with over 12 wins! 7 consecutive. Name any other qb with that? He also has the most PERFECT passer rating games. Of anyone. Stats like that back up his overall skill. Not some rings. Stats like that say hey, he in the qb role has done better than anyone. %'s tell a story. Positional percentages especially, and they say he is the man.

I will also accept top 5. I just wouldn't accept "not even close"


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

what they say is that he is the most prolific passer of all time. That can not and should not be argued.

Who is the greatest QB can and will be argued forever.


----------



## GaryFish

Mr Muleskinner said:


> what they say is that he is the most prolific passer of all time. That can not and should not be argued.


Perhaps to this point. We'll see how long Brees and Rogers last in the league.

And just like that - Top of Page! Boyaaa!


----------



## wyogoob

Both teams come from states that have legalized pot.

Is that why they call it the "Super Bowl"?


----------



## RandomElk16




----------



## sawsman

I think Jim Plunkett should be in the top 50 QB's of all time.

Got my board numbers today. A 5 and a 2 !! O|* A safety would help, so let's hope Manning goes down in his own end zone.

.


----------



## .45

I'll be watching the puppy bowl...with penguin cheerleaders.


----------



## sawsman

Not a Bronco or Seahawk fan? This is still worth the whole 3:29&#8230;.


----------



## utahgolf

he led with the helmet, where's the penalty flag? ;-) :grin:


----------



## sawsman

Steve Largent was a bad azz&#8230;8)

.


----------



## COWAN

After Seattle wins Denver, just like Crabtree, Denver will be Seattles M.L.B. Sherman is a beast, GO SEATTLE!


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

COWAN said:


> After Seattle wins Denver, just like Crabtree, Denver will be Seattles M.L.B. Sherman is a beast, GO SEATTLE!


 easy for you to say


----------



## COWAN

Come on, Peyton will choke.


----------



## Mr Muleskinner

Manning choke no Denver wins Seattle see? Sherman's trouble show Manning inspired. Goonie goo goo agrees Aunt Bunnie.


----------



## COWAN

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Manning choke no Denver wins Seattle see? Sherman's trouble show Manning inspired. Goonie goo goo agrees Aunt Bunnie.


We need to find your supplier and cut you off the "mile high" thing. And yes Sherm did get a little aunt Bunnie. I think it was because she had a mustach.


----------



## riptheirlips

GaryFish said:


> Top 3? Hmmm.
> I'd put Bradshaw, Montana, and Brady ahead of him. And a very close tie with Manning and Elway.
> 
> Don't forget to put an asterisk next to Bradys name that the team was caught cheating. Special rule created for Brady to justify him beating the Raiders for trip to Super Bowl.


----------



## brookieguy1

Not looking good for Denver. Where's that #1 offense?


----------



## Dodger

brookieguy1 said:


> Not looking good for Denver. Where's that #1 offense?


It's getting owned by the #1 defense.


----------



## Dunkem

Well you think I would learn,Never,I mean NEVER bet on Denver:O//:


----------



## brookieguy1

Spitting feathers sucks. Never did care for crow pie! 
Thanks Denver, for the worst Superbowl I can remember. I'm sure even Seahawks fans are dissapointed. They at least wanted a game.
Time to retire, Peyton.


----------



## outdoorser

Omaha just changed to omacrap


----------



## COWAN

Dear Mr. Muleskinner


DENVER... SEATTLE'S L.B's.

Sincerely,
Mr. (See thru the smoke & mirrors) COWAN


----------



## Wind In His Hair

What a terrible game, totally one-sided the whole time. The playoffs were far more interesting than the Super Bowl. I should have gone hunting today.


----------



## mikevanwilder

Terrible game! Knew Seattle would win but come on Denver at least show up. 
Oh and for you guys arguing about best qbs Gary I guess troy aikman is in your top 3-4 right since he has as many Superbowl wins as Brady and more than elway! 
Just thought I would through that out.


----------



## utahgolf

the real superbowl was two weeks ago when my niners put up an actual fight!


----------



## RandomElk16

BOOM!! I didn't think my worst prediction would be that Seattle only won by 5. Defenses win championships. 

All these people talkin about "The l.o.b. Is going to get destroyed!" Pahahaha


----------



## OKEE

SO!!!!! I was a Little off on my predictions. :mrgreen: Note to self Never make another super bowl prediction .Congrats to the Seahawks fans.


----------



## outdoorser

My prediction: Seattle 43, Denver 8. The seahawks will OWN peyton manning. Richard sherman will go out with an injury.

EDIT: Crap I need to talk to the moderators or something. I posted this back on saturday night, and it barely appeared a couple minutes ago:?

;-)


----------



## COWAN

All these people talkin about "The l.o.b. Is going to get destroyed!" Pahahaha


What is the "l.o.b."?

Anyways, Manning is becoming quite the choke master. The first 30 seconds of the game proved that. Along with his many well deserved records and achievements, choking in the Superbowl is his defining achievement!
GO SEATLE!!!!!!!


----------



## GaryFish

All I have to say, is I went from cheering for Seattle, to having pity on Denver. Wow.


----------



## Dunkem

Most interesting part? Dylan commercial for Chrysler8)


----------



## RandomElk16

COWAN said:


> All these people talkin about "The l.o.b. Is going to get destroyed!" Pahahaha
> 
> What is the "l.o.b."?
> 
> Anyways, Manning is becoming quite the choke master. The first 30 seconds of the game proved that. Along with his many well deserved records and achievements, choking in the Superbowl is his defining achievement!
> GO SEATLE!!!!!!!


Legion of Boom... It's the name for seattle's secondary. Everyone thought manning would destroy them.

Now on a side note.. Interestinly enough Manning set a Superbowl record for the most completions in a game. I think his passer rating was an all time high as well. D. Thomas also set the record for most catches. So even though I am a hawks fan, I am also a sucker for statistics... The TEAM of the Broncos lost the game. But, leaders get the glory and also take the hit. Manning wasn't super manning, but statistically he should have done enough. And for two weeks I have had to explain to people that I wasn't crazy for believing the Hawks would win. It wasn't just hope or cheering. They entered into the bowl with the same record as Denver. But as I predicted, if Denver fails to get 350+ yards they can't win. Everyone couldn't accept that the hawks would hold them. Now I knew that, but I DID NOT know that seattle would score nearly that many points.

I still believe the team was carried to the bowl by Manning, unfortunately his back gave out and they all went tumbling to the ground


----------



## RandomElk16

GaryFish said:


> Sherman is Deon Sanders reincarnate.
> 
> Nice perspective utahgolf. Remember the commercials with Terry Tate: Office Linebacker? (If you don't just search YouTube and you'll find them.That would be AWESOME with Sherman.


Watched two of these on youtube today. Havent seen em in years. 3-4 min clips.. Funny stuff! They should bring him back!


----------



## Packfish

I watched 2 shows Sunday after getting home from hunting- One was Bill O and the Big O and the Super Bowl.

One was about a poor QB , with obviously poor coaches and a Chitty but alusive offense and the other was the football game


----------



## Catherder

As a former Colorado resident, it was simply a looong day. Seattle was the better team and deserved it. Not much more to say on that.


However, was it just me or were the ads generally some of the most nondescript ever? It seemed like as a whole this was the poorest bunch of Super bowl ads on record. The only one that even moved the needle for me was the radio shack ad and maybe the soldier one. As for the rest, Blah.


----------



## Wind In His Hair

^I liked the Budweiser ad with the puppy and the Clydesdales. The Tebow ones were ok. Other than that, nothing really stands out.


----------



## brookieguy1

The Dylan commercial was awesome. Gotta love Bobby!


----------



## Dodger

I saw a news article that said a major adult website's traffic from Denver was up 20% or so above normal starting after the kick return for a touch down to start the 2nd half.

I guess that's one way to feel better about the game.


----------



## GaryFish

I was cheering for Seattle, but I have to say, the "Legion of Boom" has to be about the lamest self-gloss for anything. The only thing more lame, is abbreviating it. Who thinks up this stuff? That is worse than Bronco's "Quest for Perfection" at the Bee Why a few years ago. Good grief. Legion of Boom? Really? I bet we could easily come up with something better than that in about five seconds.

Sea-Wall Defense?
Sea-Storm?
Seattle Battle? 
Operation 'Hawk-Stop!
Sea Hawk Intimidation Team (better not abbreviate that one).

But LOB? Really? That legalization of the gongi is not working out well for marketing in the Emerald City that is for sure.


----------



## Wind In His Hair

Legion of Boom is so generic, and could be adopted by just about anyone in anyplace. Not very original either. All they did was take Legion of Doom and change one letter. The Steel Curtain, Orange Crush, Purple People Eaters, those were nicknames!

LOB, Light Our Bongs.


----------



## RandomElk16

As a hawks fan, I am personally greatful they smore pent time on their defensive strategy rather than the name.


----------

