# New Shotgun Questions



## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

I have a confession to make. I am still shooting the same Remington 870 express that was boxed up under the Christmas tree when I was 12 years old. I'm now 34, and that gun has been used to shoot ducks, geese, pheasants, grouse, chukars and rabbits for 22 years. Has shot turkeys for the last 5. It's received a new synthetic stock, hasn't been cleaned as often as it should, and has been flat out dropped in the marsh more times than I'd like to admit.

Needless to say the gun looks pretty rough. If you breathe on it wrong it'll rust within 20 seconds. The barrel and receiver appear more of a copper/gray than a nice blued color no matter how well it's been cleaned and oiled. To top it all off, even though I've hunted many days with it almost every year since I got it, I've never shot it particularly well.

All that out of the way, I'm looking at a new semi-auto in the 500-700$ price range. I've looked hard at the Weatherby SA-08 and Weatherby Element. I like the feel of both guns. Anybody with experience with these 2 that can give advice one way or the other? 

I'm also torn between a 12 and 20 gauge. When I hunt ducks, I hunt over decoys. I hunt rabbits, chukars, grouse, and pheasants with some regularity. I also plan on using this gun to shoot turkeys. 

Other considerations: My 870 is a 12 gauge. I also have a 7 year old son that will hopefully be hunting with me in the next 3-5 years. I had considered going 20 gauge and passing the gun to him when he starts hunting with me. Part of me also wants to have him start with a pump instead of a semi-auto.

Anyways, hit me with your thoughts and suggestions. Any personal experience with the 2 guns I mentioned would be great. Also open to other options in a similar price range.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Benelli Montefeltro in 20Ga. Stunningly beautiful guns. We bought my son one for graduation this past year (his was 12GA).










-DallanC


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

There will be a ton of opinions and they're all right on this deal!

I'm personally a big fan of the Winchester SX4. It's basically the Browning Silver. I love mine. My brother loved mine and bought one. My son kept trying to steal mine so I paid for part and he paid for part. 

Light, reduced recoil, and shoots well for me. Shot 24/25 clays with it not too long ago. 

I don't love the camo craze, so I like plain black.

The Montefeltro is a beautiful gun also. Sportsman's had an A300 (I think) for a decent deal.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

caddis8 said:


> There will be a ton of opinions and they're all right on this deal!
> 
> I'm personally a big fan of the Winchester SX4. It's basically the Browning Silver. I love mine. My brother loved mine and bought one. My son kept trying to steal mine so I paid for part and he paid for part.
> 
> ...


I'm definitely not wanting camo. I want a synthetic stock in black(or gray), fully recognizing that I want to use this gun hard and would hate to ruin a beautiful wood stock. Eventually I'll get a pretty gun. I'm looking for function, durability and versatility right now

One of my buddies recommended the SX4 as well. Another friend has the Montefeltro with a wood stock, and it is a great gun. I thought they were higher priced, but they're pretty reasonable as well.

This is exactly why I asked here. I know I'll get a lot of different opinions, but I'd rather operate with more information than less when making a purchase.


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

Simply put, buy the gun that fits you best. Auto, pump etc, does not matter, whatever you like. But you already know that you can't shoot all the different guns well..."I've never shot it particularly well". So pay particular close attention to the fit before you decide. Nearly all major brands are well made and will give you years of good service but there is no "standard" when if come to specifications. If it fits well, and is pretty (or ugly like most black guns) great, if not, it is not really important, it's all subjective anyway.
So, if you can't find a actual gun to try(shoot)(ask those buddies if you could please try shooting their guns)..try this. When you're standing at the gun counter throw the gun up to your shoulder, and I mean just as you would when that Chukar jumps. Now freeze, do not adjust the gun in any way! Now actually look down the barrel, what do you see?...all the front bead/sight and nothing else? You shouldn't see any of the barrel but all of the front bead/sight. If you need to "settle" your cheek or lift your head or move it in any way to obtain this sight plain, the gun don't fit. Repeat the move several times, even sitting down if you can. A proper fitting gun will fall in place perfectly every time.
Now, check the pull length. Put the butt in the crook of your arm, your finger should fit about at the first knuckle, if so, it's probably close enough. 
Most guns are made to fit the "average guy" 5'9"-6' so if you're not there this measurement might not be perfect, the good news it that pull length is an easy fix and well worth the price any good Smith would charge. By the way, spending the money to have a gun fit to you is always a good thing and you'll be a better shooter for the life of the gun(years)
Always fun to buy a new gun...good luck.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

BPturkeys said:


> Simply put, buy the gun that fits you best. Auto, pump etc, does not matter, whatever you like. But you already know that you can't shoot all the different guns well..."I've never shot it particularly well". So pay particular close attention to the fit before you decide. Nearly all major brands are well made and will give you years of good service but there is no "standard" when if come to specifications. If it fits well, and is pretty (or ugly like most black guns) great, if not, it is not really important, it's all subjective anyway.
> So, if you can't find a actual gun to try(shoot)(ask those buddies if you could please try shooting their guns)..try this. When you're standing at the gun counter throw the gun up to your shoulder, and I mean just as you would when that Chukar jumps. Now freeze, do not adjust the gun in any way! Now actually look down the barrel, what do you see?...all the front bead/sight and nothing else? You shouldn't see any of the barrel but all of the front bead/sight. If you need to "settle" your cheek or lift your head or move it in any way to obtain this sight plain, the gun don't fit. Repeat the move several times, even sitting down if you can. A proper fitting gun will fall in place perfectly every time.
> Now, check the pull length. Put the butt in the crook of your arm, your finger should fit about at the first knuckle, if so, it's probably close enough.
> Most guns are made to fit the "average guy" 5'9"-6' so if you're not there this measurement might not be perfect, the good news it that pull length is an easy fix and well worth the price any good Smith would charge. By the way, spending the money to have a gun fit to you is always a good thing and you'll be a better shooter for the life of the gun(years)
> Always fun to buy a new gun...good luck.


Thanks for the advice. Have never been able to really figure out how a shotgun fits or what to look for. A little tough without shooting them, but that at least gives me some rules of thumb. I'm 6'4 so a bit above average in height.


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## caddis8 (Sep 10, 2007)

Kwalk3 said:


> One of my buddies recommended the SX4 as well.


I have an SX3, actually. Subtle redesigns and actually reduced pricing on it.

One of the things I haven't liked about Benelli is the trigger guard and safety. It has been a little small and I didn't like the location of the safety in front fo the trigger. Montefeltro doesn't have that, and the safety is actually larger.

Both are pretty sweet guns. My son's SX4 had a goofy issue earlier his year where the recoil arm came apart and jammed. I couldn't fix it and didn't want to get serious with it. Sent it back to Winchester and they fixed it without question. Great service.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

i agree w/ BP. there are only a few things that matter to me with a shotgun and a few extras. 

mandatory:
function well
fit well
swing & balance well
natural point of aim

extra points:
synthetic 
painted action/bbl


important measurements are length of pull and drop at comb. LOP can be changed with spacers on most new shotguns. drop at comb you may be stuck with unless you go high end target or you are willing to do some modification.
in my search to replace/supplement my 870 i went through many poor fitting stocks at the gun store before i found the winchester sx3. it fit nearly the same for me. i could see level down the rail and it naturally came up to the eye when mounting. 

all i'm saying is try some out and find what works. 

on a side note, a little sandpaper, acetone, masking tape and krylon paint will fix your 870. when i lived in baton rouge it would rust during a hunt and inside your house if you didn't refresh the oil on it monthly. i painted mine up and refresh the paint every 10 years. find your favorite natural vegetation for patterns and go to town on it. you have nothing to lose.


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## Dunkem (May 8, 2012)

Im gonna say Weatherby SA08, 20 gauge, love mine. shot an Express 12 gauge for years.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

I would look at the sx4 or sx3. Sx4 would be my pick out of the 2. 

Weatherby makes a good gun, but I would still pick the Winchester first.

I would definitely get a 12 as your primary gun first. Then if you wanted to get a 20 as a secondary fun gun for decoying ducks and rabbits, that wouldn’t be a bad thing to have 2 guns to choose from.

But a sx4 12 gauge would be what I would go buy today for a gun of many uses


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

If you go with the SX4, give Minute Man Arms a call - their prices usually beat all places around by $100+.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

MooseMeat said:


> I would look at the sx4 or sx3. Sx4 would be my pick out of the 2.
> 
> Weatherby makes a good gun, but I would still pick the Winchester first.
> 
> ...


That's some good thinking there. The only thing better than one gun is two! I'm sure I'll be purchasing a 20 for my boy within the next few years even if I don't get one now. Thanks for the input.


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## SX3 (Jun 3, 2014)

As may be obvious by my handle I am a big fan of the Super X auto's. Fast shooting and extremely reliable. Switched over from SX3 to an SX4 a couple years ago. Just this past weekend my wife had the opportunity to shoot a youth model SX4 in 12 gauge. Until then she had never shot anything bigger than a 20 gauge. That little 12 shot lighter than her 20 gauge over&under. You can't go wrong with and SX4. Take a look at Gould Brothers on youtube.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I have the SX3 12 gauge, SXP 12 gauge, Winchester 1300 12 gauge and a bunch of other 12 gauges. Then, I have the Weatherby SA-08 20 gauge. Guess which one I grab most often? I just love the Weatherby. Don't think for a minute that a 20 gauge is not a capable shotgun. Many pheasants, ducks and geese have been victims to the mighty 20. You can spend more $$$ for a different brand and you will achieve the same results. I have shot the Weatherby for 3 full hunting seasons and not had any issues with loading or cycling. That's my experience with it.


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## AF CYN (Mar 19, 2009)

I own a Weatherby SA-08 in 20 guage, 28" barrel. I love it. The length of pull is a little shorter than many other guns, which I like. I've also shot an SX3 in 12 guage. It was a dang nice gun, too. However, it is quite a bit heavier, so not as great an upland gun if you're doing a lot of hiking. 

The Tristar Viper is basically the same gun as the SA08, without the interchanging gas valve system. I don't mind the interchangeable gas valves, but it does require some forethought before you pick your load and go out hunting. 

Another gun I really considered was a Franchi Affinity. I thought it swung and pointed really well in the store, but it was a lot more expensive than the Weatherby.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

My $0.02 wouldn’t be on model but regarding a comment made on rust. 

I’d suggest getting a waterfowl gun that’s dipped in camo or black Teflon type coating. You could also have Black Ice cost your metal in Teflon if desired since you want wood. That way you’re not going to get surface rust as easily. Granted 12 year old you took care of things differently than 34 year old you, but it’s piece of mind nonetheless. 

I love shotguns and would like one in every gauge if I could afford it. But if you’re just gonna have one, then I’d prefer a 12 gauge. Mainly because you’ll find ammo anywhere and everywhere. And for a survival gun, a 12 gauge would be my first pick over anything due to the variance in shell options to choose from (light bird shot, heavier pheasant loads, buck shot, 3.5” waterfowl loads). Your boy will handle a light 12gauge load every bit as well as a 20 gauge in my observation.


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## Califbowmen (Jul 1, 2008)

For the money and shoots well, I prefer the Stoeger M3000/3500 for a great 12ga and the M3020, 20ga!! I shoot upland and waterfowl !!


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## SX3 (Jun 3, 2014)

Thanks to his wonderful sweet wife my son picked up this beauty last night.


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

SX3 said:


> Thanks to his wonderful sweet wife my son picked up this beauty last night.


That might be the best looking "camo" gun I've seen. Love the Flat Dark Earth coloration. I may have to change my mind from getting a solid black gun.....


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Keep shooting your 870 but go have it coated by black ice in Spanish Fork, it will look new again. Run ya about $200.

Couple other points, there are a lot of assumptions that shotguns shoot to their point of aim...nope, only about half do, American rifleman magazine does best shotgun analysis and I have been getting that magazine for 20 years and it proves it with all the shotguns they test.

Have you patterned your 870? Have you done any shooting to fit tests? I don’t mean shoot a cardboard box but actual testing? Look man, everybody likes new guns but nobody tests and evaluates shotguns like they should. I do and what you currently have is good but the rust issue with 870’s is a problem that can be fixed for a quarter of the cost of another gun. You need to truly evaluate your 870 before you go spending money. I can teach ya if you want, shoot me a pm. I just fixed up an old 870, I have a barrel bender and everything. Or go roll the dice and buy a new shotgun, it may fit ya 50/50 chance. Good luck


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

I’ve tested three SX3’s, all three shot 1.5 feet low at 40 yards. Not a fan of those. I’ve tested two SA08’s, they shot within 4” of point of aim, pretty decent. They get dirty quick but seem like decent gas guns, my daughter has one.

The best most consistent brands (I have tested over a dozen of them ea) that shoot to Point of aim are benelli montifeltro/legacy and Browning citori’s for what it’s worth


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## Kwalk3 (Jun 21, 2012)

Airborne said:


> Keep shooting your 870 but go have it coated by black ice in Spanish Fork, it will look new again. Run ya about $200.
> 
> Couple other points, there are a lot of assumptions that shotguns shoot to their point of aim...nope, only about half do, American rifleman magazine does best shotgun analysis and I have been getting that magazine for 20 years and it proves it with all the shotguns they test.
> 
> Have you patterned your 870? Have you done any shooting to fit tests? I don't mean shoot a cardboard box but actual testing? Look man, everybody likes new guns but nobody tests and evaluates shotguns like they should. I do and what you currently have is good but the rust issue with 870's is a problem that can be fixed for a quarter of the cost of another gun. You need to truly evaluate your 870 before you go spending money. I can teach ya if you want, shoot me a pm. I just fixed up an old 870, I have a barrel bender and everything. Or go roll the dice and buy a new shotgun, it may fit ya 50/50 chance. Good luck


The sad truth is I really haven't ever put any serious effort into figuring out the details in fit and patterning, etc. Strange that I spend so much time tinkering with arrows, fletchings, bow tuning, to make sure my archery equipment is performing exactly as I need it to, but when it comes to the shotgun, I never give any of the details a second thought. That's largely why I put the question out here.

I know the 870 is serviceable and I'm not scrapping it, but after 22 years, I really do want a new shotgun. Semi-auto preferred. I may go get the 870 coated and give that to my boy to hunt with and not be worried about what he might put it through.

I'm gonna try and shoot the Benelli Montefeltro with my buddy in the next few weeks. Also going to shoot the SX4 and the Browning Maxus, as those are all guns I can easily get my hands on in my circle of friends.

Lots to consider, I'll shoot you a PM about the shooting to fit tests. Really appreciate the input, and whether I keep shooting the 870 or a new gun, I do need to understand better what I'm looking for with the shotgun.


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I sure love my Benelli. Ive taken friends out shooting with o/u shotguns, pumps, and autos. They always wanna shoot the Benelli SBE II over anything else. 

Enjoy that Montefeltro!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I do not recommend the Remington Versa Max. Mine shoots low and behind the ducks....uh...and it shoots way behind those doves.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

I see there's no Remington recommends on here. Has Remington's quality really gone down the toilet that much in the last 15 years?

I grew up using an 1100 semi-auto 20 gauge bird gun to hunt deer with. Then when I got my own, it was an 1100 12 gauge that I put a rifled barrel on. Both guns were built in the 70s or 80s and still are immaculate and beautiful pieces of equipment. I still have my 12 gauge 1100 and wish I could afford the NR tags to use it back home again.

FYI: I'm not a bird hunter, so Remington's shotguns may have always been functionally crap for bird hunting, but I wouldn't know it.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

rtockstein said:


> I see there's no Remington recommends on here. Has Remington's quality really gone down the toilet that much in the last 15 year
> FYI: I'm not a bird hunter, so Remington's shotguns may have always been functionally crap for bird hunting, but I wouldn't know it.


Yep, quality is not there any longer. Keep your shotguns from the 60's and 70's, they are the good one's.


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