# Trainer Recommendations for my black lab



## ktowncamo

After a pretty good search of this and Utah Bird Dog forum as well as countless Google searches, I've got just two options for a local (within 1.5 hours of Kamas) bird dog trainer for my 15 week old black lab female pup. I've been working with her on sit, heel, come, down, kennel and she's "pretty good" (75-80% of the time). Fact of the matter is I'm way too busy with work right now and feel very under qualified to mess things up by not training her properly so I'm opting for a trainer. 

Here's where I would appreciate some unbiased opinions and input from the collective. I've been looking at Tyce Erikson as he comes highly recommended. The mother of my dog was trained by Tyce and is a well trained and skilled dog. The father of my dog was trained and is owned by David Hawkins (Cooter) who I've heard is a good trainer but until today was not able to track him down to at least email him. (if you have a # I'd appreciate it for sure).

So, any thoughts on either of these guys? Other options for a good bird dog trainer that won't cost an arm and a leg (north of $800 a month is motivation enough to make time in my schedule).

Thanks for any input you can share.


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## bfosmark

I would recommend Steve Shaver up in Cornish (Labradawg? on here). He helped me a lot when I was just getting going in this fun stuff. I have not had him train any of my dogs (I like to do it myself), but he has been very helpful and i have been up to his place and trained with him a fair amount. He has trained several MH and Qualified All-Age dogs and I think his prices are reasonable. I cannot PM on here but feel free to email me if you have any specific questions or if you would like Steve's phone #.

[email protected]
www.pintailretrievers.com


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## FTS

Try Eric Hogan in Kamas he does a nice job. If you need a phone number IM me and I will send it to you. Good Luck.


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## LockedFlockSage

+1 for Steve Shaver. He does an excellent job and his resume is well qualified as mentioned. I believe he's a Kamas boy somewhere along the line to. Give him a hollar or if you can meet up with him and watch some of the dogs run that he has on his truck.


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## birdboy

PM sent


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## rlpenn

Another vote for Steve Shaver.

My dog thinks he's great, too.

Renee P


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## ktowncamo

Thanks guys for the recommendations. Wow, didn't expect it that fast. I spoke with Steve for a good while today, great guy on the phone and sounds like it might be a great fit for me and my dog Shadow. As it's an investment in my dog, family and hunting, I'm going to do my homework (references, visit the trainer, etc) but I do so very appreciate the help from the community here. Keep them coming if you've got a strong opinion or reference of a trainer.


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## bird buster

Steve Shaver has great dogs. I bought a started dog from him, best move I've ever made. His dogs run hard, straight lines, great line manners, and awesome attitudes. Google some of my post from last year and take a look at my dog. PM if you have questions. -Blake


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## MEEN

What is your end goal for your dog and what do you want the outcome from your dog's training to be? Do you want to run hunt tests? Field Trials? Just a good hunting dog? A good house dog?

Sent you a PM as I have trained/trialed with all of the trainers mentioned.


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## FTS

Why cant I send a private message?


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## Steve Shaver

MEEN said:


> What is your end goal for your dog and what do you want the outcome from your dog's training to be? Do you want to run hunt tests? Field Trials? Just a good hunting dog? A good house dog?
> 
> Sent you a PM as I have trained/trialed with all of the trainers mentioned.


In my opinioin this doesnt matter in the least when you are talking basics with a young dog. At this point the training is the same, or should be, no matter what your end goals are.


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## Puddler

Ktowncamo - I have taken dogs to a couple trainers around Utah and can say that Steve Shaver is the real deal. I personally wouldn't take a dog anywhere else. Feel free to PM me if you would like a reference from someone that has taken a dog to Steve.


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## mountainman21

I highly recomend Dave Hawkins. I have never seen such awesome dogs. I just bought a pup from him 3 weeks ago. I will send you his number.


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## MEEN

Steve Shaver said:


> MEEN said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your end goal for your dog and what do you want the outcome from your dog's training to be? Do you want to run hunt tests? Field Trials? Just a good hunting dog? A good house dog?
> 
> Sent you a PM as I have trained/trialed with all of the trainers mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinioin this doesnt matter in the least when you are talking basics with a young dog. At this point the training is the same, or should be, no matter what your end goals are.
Click to expand...

Come on Steve. You really believe that?? It certainly should matter. Especially if you are going to pay someone to do it. Thats like saying Lardy and Hillman teach basics the same way.....

Depending on goals there are trainers I would and wouldn't recommend. Those recommendations change with the goals.


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## Bax*

Labradog on UtahBirdDogs.com gets my vote


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## Steve Shaver

MEEN said:


> Steve Shaver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MEEN said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your end goal for your dog and what do you want the outcome from your dog's training to be? Do you want to run hunt tests? Field Trials? Just a good hunting dog? A good house dog?
> 
> Sent you a PM as I have trained/trialed with all of the trainers mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinioin this doesnt matter in the least when you are talking basics with a young dog. At this point the training is the same, or should be, no matter what your end goals are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come on Steve. You really believe that?? It certainly should matter. Especially if you are going to pay someone to do it. Thats like saying Lardy and Hillman teach basics the same way.....
> 
> Depending on goals there are trainers I would and wouldn't recommend. Those recommendations change with the goals.
Click to expand...

Your darn right I believe that. I sure wouldnt short change a young pups training just because he's going to be "just a good gun dog" as you put it. Basics paves the way for further advanced training whether a person chooses to train to an avanced level or not good solid basics is important..
If I were building a house I would want the foundation under a $150,000.00 house to be every bits as good as one under a $1,000,000.00 house.
Ask Lardy or Hillman if they would do basics any different on a gun dog or a potential Field Champion and I'll bet they would say no. In fact I know they would, Lardy is the one I heard it from. Your right it does matter. If someone takes your dog to train with the attitude that it's just going to be "a good dun dog" your getting screwed.
Personally I would give the gun dog the same basics I would a top level competitor. It's not until advanced training kicks in that things change. A gun dog doesnt need to achieve the advanced level a field champion does but he certainly deserves as good a foundation. It's not about how this person or that person teaches basics, there is more than one way to skin a cat. However you teach basics it should not change according to the goal for the dog.
So does the quality of your kids elementary school matter if you dont plan to send him to college?


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## MEEN

So why doesn't everyone go to Farmer for basics???? 

A 150,000 house does not NEED a million dollar home foundation. It would be way overbuilt and a waste of cash! Just because it would be nice to have doesn't mean it is the right decision or needed.

Again, depending on goals there are trainers I would and wouldn't recommend. Those recommendations change with the goals. This is because every single trainer mentioned in this post has a different level of understanding on how to train, including how "basics" are taught. 

Most of the trainers mentioned would be sufficient for the Meat Dog. There is not one pro in Utah I would send a dog to if my goals were field trials. Doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend them if goals were only a SH..


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## Steve Shaver

MEEN said:


> So why doesn't everyone go to Farmer for basics????
> 
> A 150,000 house does not NEED a million dollar home foundation. It would be way overbuilt and a waste of cash! Just because it would be nice to have doesn't mean it is the right decision or needed.
> 
> Again, depending on goals there are trainers I would and wouldn't recommend. Those recommendations change with the goals. This is because every single trainer mentioned in this post has a different level of understanding on how to train, including how "basics" are taught.
> 
> Most of the trainers mentioned would be sufficient for the Meat Dog. There is not one pro in Utah I would send a dog to if my goals were field trials. Doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend them if goals were only a SH..


Ok I can see your not understanding what I am trying to say and I wont agrue with you.
I have driven Concrete trucks for 30 years. 20 of that in Park City where there are many multi million dollar homes and believe it or not the same concrete goes into that foundation as the one under a double wide mobile home.


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## MEEN

Steve Shaver said:


> MEEN said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why doesn't everyone go to Farmer for basics????
> 
> A 150,000 house does not NEED a million dollar home foundation. It would be way overbuilt and a waste of cash! Just because it would be nice to have doesn't mean it is the right decision or needed.
> 
> Again, depending on goals there are trainers I would and wouldn't recommend. Those recommendations change with the goals. This is because every single trainer mentioned in this post has a different level of understanding on how to train, including how "basics" are taught.
> 
> Most of the trainers mentioned would be sufficient for the Meat Dog. There is not one pro in Utah I would send a dog to if my goals were field trials. Doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend them if goals were only a SH..
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I can see your not understanding what I am trying to say and I wont agrue with you.
> I have driven Concrete trucks for 30 years. 20 of that in Park City where there are many multi million dollar homes and believe it or not the same concrete goes into that foundation as the one under a double wide mobile home.
Click to expand...

Wow.... Just wow...


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## tshuntin

Meen and Steve, I think you guys are actually kind of on the same page, it has just spun differently for each of you. I don't think either of you are more right than the other, just kind of talking about different things really. 

Meen has a vaild point of what the end goal for the dog is. Certain trainers could make an OK gun dog, others could make a really nice gun dog, or others could make a really nice HT dog, and others could make a dog that would have a chance at FT success. So yes, depending on the ultimate goal of that owner, it could certainly dictate what trainer would be a good fit for that owner. 

Steve is talking more about the basics involved and stating that regardless of the end goal, the foundation or basics should be the same. I agree with this. To have what I would consider a good dog, regardless of the end goal, solid basics are crucial. Basics are so important and there are just not that many people anywhere that do basics as good as they should be done, but most of us don't know what really good basics really are. I know a very good amatuer that has trained I believe 5-6 FC's and or AFC's. He is very good. Has studied from some of the best alive. He himself told me that he is not good enough to properly do basics on his dogs so he has someone else do them. That spoke volumes to me about how important they really are. So I believe Steve's point is that you can not start with too good of foundation for dog training. Now money, time, goals, desire, and personal standards can affect how good of basics are done. 

On the house/concrete argument, just because a house is 200K rather than a million bones, it doesn't mean the basic design principles, structural integrity and code requirements can be skimped on and not done properly. Same with dogs, just because dog A is going to just be a hunt hunting dog, doesn't mean its basics should be way half-a'd compared to a pup that is inteneded to be a FT dog. Now at some point there will be a significant difference in training and what each trainer does with each type or end goal dog, but basics should be thorough and complete regardless. Make sense? 

For Meens comments, there are guys out there that can for sure make an OK gun dog. Some of them are OK, just because thier client doesn't know any better and they end up happy. Then others do a very good thorough job and are able to make a very nice gun dog or hunt test dog. Then there are others that can make a very good HT dog or possibly even FT dog. But to me, this is starting to transfer into transitional and advanced training. Basics are completed at this point. Standards are set and training is pushed into a different level and focused more towards a specific end goal. 

Make sense? Again, I think you two probably agree with each other and get what it takes at multiple levels of finished dogs, but I think you are talking about two different angles or things and that is why it seems like you are disagreeing with each other.


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## LockedFlockSage

MEEN said:


> Thats like saying Lardy and Hillman teach basics the same way.....


I use to do commercial concrete and would rather not get involved in that discussion....I get a little light headed thinking about concrete  

Their is more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to dog training. No two pro's do it exactly the same from start to finish, but when it boils down to it their stance on basics is the same whether it be a meat dog or a trial dog. Will they expect a meet dog to run a 400 yard posion bird thru the AOF from a mark thrown from the flyer station with the flyer crate still out from the previous series, no but I would be willing to bet that they demand that the meat dog sits just as patiently in the blind as they would their trial dog sitting on line. That is the nature of a good trainer.

Also, I hear Lardy has become quite fond of Hillmanns program, even endorsed it. Does Lardy even do his young dog training


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## tshuntin

MEEN said:


> So why doesn't everyone go to Farmer for basics????


I am not sure what you are asking? My first answer is because I don't believe Danny does his own Basics anymore and people would rather having him as one of the best drivers in the game driving their big dog to the finish line.

LockedClockSage, I think you are right in both accounts. Lardy has spoken very highly of Hillman's basics, as has Dennis Voigt and others. And no, I don't believe Lardy does his own Basics either. Many top pros do not do basics anymore. Many have people working for them that do them or clients send to a certain young dog pro and than the dog goes to the big dog pro. For example Jim Van Egan then to Mike Lardy. Cherilyn Loveland then to Dave Rorem (I think Ty also does basics for Rorem Retrievers, but don't know that for sure). Mark Madore, when with Gonia did a lot of basics..., that type of deal.

Now, those interested in learning to do Basics much better and how important they really are along with better transitional training and advanced work, the WRRC is hosting Kenny Trott (a very good pro who does most if not all his own basics) for a training seminar this June. It will be well worth it for anyone who is able to attend. More info here: http://weberretrievers.com/2012-seminars.html


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## BigMac

While it may be true there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is only one way to do basics training! And that is to give it to all dogs the same! +++1 Steve your right on the money!


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## ktowncamo

FTS said:


> Why cant I send a private message?


Not sure why, but send me an email if you don't mind: kendall card AT gmail dot c o m

Thanks, I'd like to connect with Eric.


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## ktowncamo

Seriously guys, I appreciate the discussion and the PM's I've received. 

tshuntin - thank you for steering the discussion here. I do believe both Steve and MEEN are more on the same page than they appear to be here. 

Putting a dog into a training program seemed like such a simple thing prior to diving into the world of trainers, not to mention the continual talk of field and hunt trials, which at this point I'm not really interested in but I'm sure many of the dog owners out there that have participated in the trials or trained dogs for trials didn't start out thinking "Gee, I've got so much free time in my day I think I'll take up another hobby so my wife will see less of me"  I guess that's where I'm at and will be very satisfied at this point to have a obedient and passionate hunt dog that is also a loved and respected family member. (she's loved already but I know with better obedience even my wife will come to love Shadow).

Had some great phone interviews and looking forward to getting to know a few trainers in person in April. Shadow will be 6 months at the start of June so I'm kinda shooting for that age/milestone to get her with a trainer. Until then, I'll keep weighing my options.


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## Guest

I have two setter puppies and want to teach them for hunting...but I don't the details I need to do ..what exactly should know setters?

_____________________
edit mp3


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## Steve Shaver

MckeeSherrie said:


> I have two setter puppies and want to teach them for hunting...but I don't the details I need to do ..what exactly should know setters?
> 
> _____________________
> edit mp3


Sorry cant help you. I know nothing about setters and dont even know anyone I could direct you to.


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## Sprig Kennels

how old are the setter pups?


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## APD

ktowncamo said:


> FTS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why cant I send a private message?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why, but send me an email if you don't mind: kendall card AT gmail dot c o m
> 
> Thanks, I'd like to connect with Eric.
Click to expand...

kendall,

long time since i've heard from you. i didn't know you even hunted. we'll have to get out next season for a hunt.

--Seth


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## 400bullelk

I would recommend Joe Glass. He is working with the only field champ in Utah.


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## humpyflyguy

Here is a quick question, what is to early to start training a pup? I have a seven week old lab that I will start training but don't want to push her too fast too early. So far I have just been working on sit but I am thinking it might be too soon, she has picked it up pretty quick and will hold it. But the next day it takes a few minutes of reminding her what sit is.


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## Steve Shaver

humpyflyguy said:


> Here is a quick question, what is to early to start training a pup? I have a seven week old lab that I will start training but don't want to push her too fast too early. So far I have just been working on sit but I am thinking it might be too soon, she has picked it up pretty quick and will hold it. But the next day it takes a few minutes of reminding her what sit is.


Quick question but there is no quick answer.
Basically your training starts now but at this point it is more like guiding the pup in the right direction. Nothing wrong with teaching pup to sit. Make learning a fun and rewarding experience for the pup with no negative reinforcement. Expose him to all kinds of enviorments and situations. EVERYTHING you do, the way you act and react to this pup right now is going to shape his future. To me this is the most important time of a dogs life.
I like to start formal obedience and training around 4 months of age.
I let the pup tell me what he is or is not ready for.


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## humpyflyguy

Thank you.


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## Steve Shaver

humpyflyguy said:


> Thank you.


Your welcome


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## Broadside_Shot

Check out http://www.blacktaillabs.com/


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## Broadside_Shot

I have my pup with Steve Shaver right now as we speak. He has done a great job with my pup so far. He is an 11 month old pup and is pretty hard headed. We are hoping to run a hunt test with him on Memorial Day. I never thought I would run my dog in hunt tests but the more I learned about them the more intriging it became. I will let you know how it goes when we compete in one.


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## Bax*

bfosmark said:


> I would recommend Steve Shaver up in Cornish (Labradawg? on here). He helped me a lot when I was just getting going in this fun stuff. I have not had him train any of my dogs (I like to do it myself), but he has been very helpful and i have been up to his place and trained with him a fair amount. He has trained several MH and Qualified All-Age dogs and I think his prices are reasonable. I cannot PM on here but feel free to email me if you have any specific questions or if you would like Steve's phone #.
> 
> [email protected]
> www.pintailretrievers.com


Labradog on UTBD is a very very very nice guy and knows his stuff. Id suggest him as well


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