# 40 million elk possibile?



## countrydave801 (Jul 10, 2017)

Watched a video put out by the RMEF and that stated that once upon a time there were 40 million elk roaming the North American Continent. Could the same continent support that many elk today? Would it be possible to get back to the 40 million range? Would it take away the excitement of seeing an elk if there were that many? What would it be like if we had that many elk again?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Yes I believe there were 40 million elk, no it cannot happen today. People don't realize that elk back then were more of a plains game animal like the bison. As they got pressured they moved into the mountains (or perhaps another way to think about it is they were both mountain and plains animals and the plains herds were killed off leaving the mountain populations... fwiw), and there isn't enough room / winter range to support that today.


-DallanC


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

I'll bite.

There are currently approximately 324,000,000 people living in the USA and 36,000,000 living in Canada which would translate to approximately a 9:1 ratio of human to elk populations.

Given that the habitat for elk is generally going to be mountainous regions as opposed to low lying deserts or grasslands, this would limit their habitat further. Additionally, they seem to not like city life (every elk that lived in New York seems to move out pretty quickly for some reason). So it would be safe to say that the 40 million elk would be somewhat confined in habitat.

According to this one un-validated link that I looked at: http://www.wilderness.net/NWPS/chartResults?chartType=AcreageByStateMost there are 109,138,287 acres of wilderness in the USA which would mean that if those 40 million elk lived in the USA only, they would each only have 2.72 acres of wilderness per elk to live on.

Now if this were you or me, we would be able to survive by farming and cultivating the land. But it is a well known fact that elk are terrible farmers (they don't have the patience or opposable thumbs). So they would just have to eat what vegetation they had on their 2.72 acres of land, or visit a local Walmart (in a recent survey performed by the Onion News Network, 7/8 elk said they would rather starve than shop at Walmart).

Factoring in natural mortality rate, birth rate, disease, suicide, predation, and the Bulgarian Ubor. Plus unnatural mortality caused by cars, tanks, planes, NoKo nukes, and Wyogoob, it would be safe to assume that these numbers would not be sustainable unless they had socialized medicine, after school programs, high-rise condominium developments, and a caramel mocha latte every three hours, that we could not support a population of this size in today's world.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Dangit, now I have to bring an espresso machine successfully hunt elk? This sport gets harder every year.

Agreed though....habitat loss and fragmentation have made historical population sizes unsustainable in the modern era.


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

Since I am heading into the Henry's, Dallan's comment resonates. There are mountain bison there. I believe there once were mountain and plains bison, and mountain and plains elk. 

Think of the big guy killed on I-15 a couple weeks ago. He was down low. Now take away I-15, the houses, the prison, etc etc.... I am sure they thrived in low lands.

You see those big boys on the Strip or in Southern Utah and realize elk can survive in most the habitat in the US. Just not with people.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I think those henery bison are crossbred with mt goats lol.

What we do know is alot of plains indians ate alot of elk in their diets, as much or more than bison at times. The women prized elk ivory for ornamental uses, even on dresses.










-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

That's a lot of tooths right ther!


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## countrydave801 (Jul 10, 2017)

Bax* said:


> I'll bite.
> 
> There are currently approximately 324,000,000 people living in the USA and 36,000,000 living in Canada which would translate to approximately a 9:1 ratio of human to elk populations.
> 
> ...


Best response I think that can posted. If you look at it with the numbers, there would be no way. Thanks for the math input, broke it down really fast. With the same formula, almost, how much would you say we could support?


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## countrydave801 (Jul 10, 2017)

So rough guess, what would be a sustainable number? And if we got to that number, would it take away from the experience to the fact that seeing them would be more common?


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## Bax* (Dec 14, 2008)

countrydave801 said:


> Best response I think that can posted. If you look at it with the numbers, there would be no way. Thanks for the math input, broke it down really fast. With the same formula, almost, how much would you say we could support?


Well, if it takes 56 flapjacks to shingle the roof of a doghouse, and it takes 13 seconds for a chicken with a wooden leg to kick a hole in a peanut, then it would mean that a nano parsec would be requisite to support an infinitesimal population of diminutive micro elk.

In all seriousness though, there are a lot of factors at play that would determine how many elk an area could support. Some of which would include age, gender, and physiological characteristics (pregnant, lactating, or growing antlers) of the animal will determine how many elk an area could support.

So to understand this, you would need to know what areas the elk are able to habitate and what the gender and age ratios were.

For example a nursing cow will need an area with more water and higher nutrient foods to support herself and her calf compared to a young bull that has different nutritional requirements to grow his antlers.

I know that there will be debate about what I am saying, but the truth is that each animal may have different nutritional requirements than the others of the same species and depending on region, climate, altitude, etc, these factors will fluctuate which means that gender / age ratios will fluctuate.


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## ZEKESMAN (Sep 14, 2007)

Go up the canyons by Deer Lodge Montana, they are like rabbits up there. You have to stop and wait for them to get out of the road. No, Seeing a 300 plus bull is still exciting for me. Ever been to Yelowstone before the wolves? Vic


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

DallanC said:


> I think those henery bison are crossbred with mt goats lol.
> 
> What we do know is alot of plains indians ate alot of elk in their diets, as much or more than bison at times. The women prized elk ivory for ornamental uses, even on dresses.


Good thing elk shed their ivories like they do antlers, and since both bulls and cows have them, that's twice as many to find. Best way to find them is to walk around strairing at the ground while you're elk hunting. Won't see them any other time...


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