# Long distance shooting



## Guest

A guy told me today he shot 1600 yds at a buck twice and missed. I said thats way to far and he said no it isn't, I just couldn't figure out the wind. I was thinking ya and the rotation of the planet too. 

I just think its rediculous people are attempting shots like that. What ever happened to stocking. How many deer are wounded and die later by this unethical way of hunting. 

Paul


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## mtnrunner260

How does he know he missed. Could he see the bullet impact or did he go over and look for blood? I know people can shoot a mile but there's not many


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## royta

If there is one single thing you can't figure out; wind, distance, whatever; then you shouldn't take the shot. What kind of ******* just lobs bullets wishing upon a shooting star that they'll hit, let alone cleanly kill an animal?


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## Nambaster

1600 yards? That deer is equally safe if your buddy was using a bow or a sling shot. In any case I am glad that you posted this in the humor section.


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## longbow

Paul_S said:


> A guy told me today he shot 1600 yds at a buck twice and missed. I said thats way to far and he said no it isn't, I just couldn't figure out the wind. I was thinking ya and the rotation of the planet too.
> 
> I just think its rediculous people are attempting shots like that. What ever happened to stocking. How many deer are wounded and die later by this unethical way of hunting.
> 
> Paul


I'm an avid longrange hunter. If this guy is taking shots out to 1600 yards and he is good enough to do it he would be famous and I would have heard of him. I rub elbows with some of the best longrange hunter out there and even Shawn Carlock, his dad, Kerby Allan, Jeff Brozinski and a couple others I know would never shoot at an animal that far.
Your friend is a D-bag.
Next time ask him the "check" questions. His FPS, bullet's BC, what cosine for his angle, how many click up, his elevation etc, etc. Any practiced longrange shooter can recite these for recent shots he's taken. If he baulks at your questions, he's a bull****zer. And a D-bag.


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## Mavis13

This isn't funny!!!!!!
It's just aggravating.


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## cklspencer

Did you see his range finder? Not to many on the market that can range that.

I bet he was shooting standing up too.


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## dmoody

cklspencer said:


> I bet he was shooting standing up too.


hahaha


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## Longgun

*1,600?*

Yeap, sure...

And he stayed at a Holiday Inn the night previous too eh?

hey, just for ****'s and Giggles, what caliber/bullet/fps was he shooting?


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## royta

Longgun said:


> what caliber/bullet/fps was he shooting?


A freakin' 12 gauge! What do you think?


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## time4hunt

He probably shoots ducks at 150 yards in the air also. -O,-


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## colorcountrygunner

People like this need their hunting rights taken away.


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## Longgun

royta said:


> A freakin' 12 gauge! What do you think?


Well that covers the s*it part of my question ... ;-)

Now the giggle part. Ok, *IF* said blowhard could make this shot, tell me why it's "unethical". -O|o-


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## Longgun

colorcountrygunner said:


> People like this need their hunting rights taken away.


Sorry, from your hunters ed guide, its a privilege.

again, -O|o-

one could argue the same for those that exceed the speed limit, take away the driving privileges.


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## izzydog

1600 miles is too far! 1600 yards is just about right.


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## Fishrmn

Longgun said:


> one could argue the same for those that exceed the speed limit, take away the driving privileges.


Do enough speeding, and they do take away your driving privileges.


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## T-Bone

9/10 mile? It can be done but before I believe it I gotta see it.


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## 30-06-hunter

Most of us can count on one hand how many guys in the state that can effectively shoot out past 1000 yards, here is one of them


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## Guest

I agree with those of you who are agrevated by this style of shooting, I wouldn't call it hunting myself. Ya it frustrates the H*** out me. I dont know what kind of range finder he uses, he told me he made several different long range shots at different deer and in the last two yrs of hunting he still hasn't harvested a deer with his built up 300 mag. To make things worse his hunting buddy shoots the same way.

I posted this in the humor section because its funny, but at the same time it P****** Me Off, I guess we need a P***** off section to post in.

Paul


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## Hoopermat

He is full of ****. He's just telling you this because he drank too much and didn't get up to go hunting. 
Anyone that would even try that shot is a idiot. That is .909 miles.


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## willfish4food

While I detest the type of person who prints off a ballistic chart out to 2000 yards and assumes he's just got to account for wind, the good news is, I'm willing to bet that deer was never really in any harms way.


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## Longgun

Paul_S said:


> I agree with those of you who are agrevated by this style of shooting, I wouldn't call it hunting myself. Ya it frustrates the H*** out me. I dont know what kind of range finder he uses, he told me he made several different long range shots at different deer and in the last two yrs of hunting he still hasn't harvested a deer with his built up 300 mag. To make things worse his hunting buddy shoots the same way.
> 
> I posted this in the humor section because its funny, but at the same time it P****** Me Off, I guess we need a P***** off section to post in.
> 
> Paul


*"I wouldn't call it hunting myself." :fencing: *

Point is, IF someone has the equipment and the SKILLS to boot, what the h*ll do any of you/us care what range the kill is made at? Be-it 1-10-100-1000 yds! Regardless of weapon of choice, the target doesnt know you're there right? The very same argument can be made by some about the various tricked out chit in all levels of any hunting sport. Is hunting while hanging from a tree "hunting"? Is spraying down with any of the various scent killers "hunting"? For your buddy to be taking shots that he hasnt first honed those skills to a razors edge to leave zero doubt about his ability is irresponsible. For you to claim this type of hunting "P****** Me Off" is plain silly and assenine.

Although i caution you, as your bloodpressure may exceed safe levels, I envite you to bring your argument over here for further discussion:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/


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## Longgun

Hoopermat said:


> He is full of ****. He's just telling you this because he drank too much and didn't get up to go hunting.
> Anyone that would even try that shot is a idiot. That is .909 miles.


Again, the dude is plowing sunshine...


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## RandomElk16

Longgun said:


> Although i caution you, as your bloodpressure may exceed safe levels, I
> envite you to bring your argument over here for further discussion:
> 
> http://www.longrangehunting.com/


Love that site. Have been wanting to post one of my favorite threads in
reply to the long range posts that pop up here:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

Page 11 is where the kills come in, then back around 22. Out past 1200
yards. And I dare anyone on here to say he is not a hunter. Just because you
either A) CAN'T do it or B)Hunt in what you view as a more traditional
manner does not mean that it is something to criticize.

There is a big difference between someone who shoots past their comfort zone (aka "lobbing shots")
and someone who is a long range hunter.


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## 30-06-hunter

RandomElk16 said:


> Love that site. Have been wanting to post one of my favorite threads in
> reply to the long range posts that pop up here:
> 
> http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybr
> id-88657/
> 
> Page 11 is where the kills come in, then back around 22. Out past 1200
> yards. And I dare anyone on here to say he is not a hunter. Just because you
> either A) CAN'T do it or B)Hunt in what you view as a more traditional
> manner does not mean that it is something to criticize.
> 
> There is a big difference between someone who shoots past their comfort zone (aka "lobbing shots")
> and someone who is a long range hunter.


Your link didn't work, but are you referring to the video I posted on page 2 of this thread?


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## wyoming2utah

Sorry, but I don't get the long range hunting thing. A guy may certainly have become very good at shooting long distances and may very well be able to ethically kill an animal at those distances and he may very well have put in a lot of time into his craft and become an expert at shooting at such distances....BUT, I always thought hunting meant that the hunter find a way to get close to the animal--close enough that the animal, if it were to know that the hunter is there, would spook and try to get away. To me, hunting involves the art of outsmarting an animal and putting yourself into its home...somehow long range "hunting" violates everything hunting means to me.

But whatever....I am not going to get all worked up about what others legally do. However, I would be pissed if some guy shot a buck from a long range that I was stalking from a closer range....!


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## 30-06-hunter

wyoming2utah said:


> Sorry, but I don't get the long range hunting thing. A guy may certainly have become very good at shooting long distances and may very well be able to ethically kill an animal at those distances and he may very well have put in a lot of time into his craft and become an expert at shooting at such distances....BUT, I always thought hunting meant that the hunter find a way to get close to the animal--close enough that the animal, if it were to know that the hunter is there, would spook and try to get away. To me, hunting involves the art of outsmarting an animal and putting yourself into its home...somehow long range "hunting" violates everything hunting means to me.
> 
> But whatever....I am not going to get all worked up about what others legally do. However, I would be pissed if some guy shot a buck that I was stalking from a long range....!


For some of us hunting is simply wanting to put meat in the freezer, if that shot is from 200 yards or 1200 and effectively kills the animal it doesn't really matter to me. I grew up back east where a "long range" shot is over a couple hundred yards, the trees are so thick your average range is under 100 yards and the majority of hunters use open sights. Out here where you can glass an open hillside for a good mile or more and you have the ability to effectively take a long rage shot and go home early, then go for it.


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## RandomElk16

30-06-hunter said:


> Your link didn't work, but are you referring to the video I posted on page 2 of this thread?


Video's don't work on my work computer. I will watch it on my phone.

I fixed the link. Its original intent is to compare bullet ballistics of two Berger's but he documents 20 kills over a season. He is just a very skilled marksman and hunter so the thread fits here.


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> Sorry, but I don't get the long range hunting thing. A guy may certainly have become very good at shooting long distances and may very well be able to ethically kill an animal at those distances and he may very well have put in a lot of time into his craft and become an expert at shooting at such distances....BUT, I always thought hunting meant that the hunter find a way to get close to the animal--close enough that the animal, if it were to know that the hunter is there, would spook and try to get away. To me, hunting involves the art of outsmarting an animal and putting yourself into its home...somehow long range "hunting" violates everything hunting means to me.
> 
> But whatever....I am not going to get all worked up about what others legally do. However, I would be pissed if some guy shot a buck from a long range that I was stalking from a closer range....!


This is only an assumption but I believe hunting wasn't developed to be a sport or have any sort of method. It was to eat. Not sure if my great granpappy shot a deer every year at 50 yards, then in a drought year took one at 200 he would consider himself a failure. Everyone can do their own type of hunting, but success is in the eye of the beholder. Different cultures have always hunted similar species in different manners. They do what works for them.

I just find it funny for people to get on a hunting forum and say anything bad about a legal, and when done by practiced people, ethical form of hunting. I shoot long distances all the time, so if i shoot an animal at +500 am i an a**hole? What about the person who has been to the range one time has no idea the utah laws and heads out on his first hunt and does a botched shot at 60 yards?

People on here are really gonna say the first scenario doesn't involve a hunter?? Really?


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> This is only an assumption but I believe hunting wasn't developed to be a sport or have any sort of method. It was to eat. Not sure if my great granpappy shot a deer every year at 50 yards, then in a drought year took one at 200 he would consider himself a failure. Everyone can do their own type of hunting, but success is in the eye of the beholder. Different cultures have always hunted similar species in different manners. They do what works for them.


How it was developed and what it is today are two totally different things. I hunt for meat as well....but, to say that hunting is not a sport today is way off. Archery hunters are different from rifle hunters who are also different from muzzleloader hunters...I get it. We all have our own set of ethics that we practice. Nevertheless, I still find the "art" of long range shooting different from an actual hunt. You may be different...



RandomElk16 said:


> I just find it funny for people to get on a hunting forum and say anything bad about a legal, and when done by practiced people, ethical form of hunting. I shoot long distances all the time, so if i shoot an animal at +500 am i an a**hole? What about the person who has been to the range one time has no idea the utah laws and heads out on his first hunt and does a botched shot at 60 yards?


Ethics also are in the eye of the beholder...my "ethics" say that it is not "ethical" to shoot at a deer from ranges +500. Your ethics are different. My original point was that despite our different ethics, it is not illegal to shoot at deer at such long ranges; therefore, I am not going to complain about others doing it. Personally, I don't understand it because it is not hunting to me....my definition of hunting involves getting close to the animal. Yours may not...you may be different. Oh well...

...but, I would call you an a**hole if you shot at that buck from 500+ yards while I was in the near vicinity of it and for multiple reasons.


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## royta

I think, as Sportsmen, we owe it to the animal we are hunting, to only take shots that we *KNOW* will cleanly, quickly, and humanely kill the animal. If you have to dope the wind, then you shouldn't take the shot. How can you possibly compensate for varying wind speeds, directions, and gusts at 500, 650, and 800 yards on a 1000 yard shot? Are you walking down range to install wind flags? This isn't a paper target. This is an animal that will suffer a horrific, slow, and painful death if you botch the shot. You're not some American Sniper saving the world by shooting Taliban fighters. You're a Sportsman and you respect the creatures you're hunting.


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## Guest

Longgun said:


> *"I wouldn't call it hunting myself." :fencing: *
> 
> Point is, IF someone has the equipment and the SKILLS to boot, what the h*ll do any of you/us care what range the kill is made at? Be-it 1-10-100-1000 yds! Regardless of weapon of choice, the target doesnt know you're there right? The very same argument can be made by some about the various tricked out chit in all levels of any hunting sport. Is hunting while hanging from a tree "hunting"? Is spraying down with any of the various scent killers "hunting"? For your buddy to be taking shots that he hasnt first honed those skills to a razors edge to leave zero doubt about his ability is irresponsible. For you to claim this type of hunting "P****** Me Off" is plain silly and assenine.
> 
> Although i caution you, as your bloodpressure may exceed safe levels, I envite you to bring your argument over here for further discussion:
> 
> http://www.longrangehunting.com/


Do they have a humor section? Anyways my blood pressure is fine and next time something P***** you off just remember how silly and assinine your being.

Paul


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## Guest

royta said:


> I think, as Sportsmen, we owe it to the animal we are hunting, to only take shots that we *KNOW* will cleanly, quickly, and humanely kill the animal. If you have to dope the wind, then you shouldn't take the shot. How can you possibly compensate for varying wind speeds, directions, and gusts at 500, 650, and 800 yards on a 1000 yard shot? Are you walking down range to install wind flags? This isn't a paper target. This is an animal that will suffer a horrific, slow, and painful death if you botch the shot. You're not some American Sniper saving the world by shooting Taliban fighters. You're a Sportsman and you respect the creatures you're hunting.


Well said, thank you!

Paul


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## Nambaster

royta said:


> I think, as Sportsmen, we owe it to the animal we are hunting, to only take shots that we *KNOW* will cleanly, quickly, and humanely kill the animal. If you have to dope the wind, then you shouldn't take the shot. How can you possibly compensate for varying wind speeds, directions, and gusts at 500, 650, and 800 yards on a 1000 yard shot? Are you walking down range to install wind flags? This isn't a paper target. This is an animal that will suffer a horrific, slow, and painful death if you botch the shot. You're not some American Sniper saving the world by shooting Taliban fighters. You're a Sportsman and you respect the creatures you're hunting.


+1... Uh.... except for coyotes. I am ok with taking crazy shots at coyotes doping the wind and quartering away shots. I usually don't pass those on coyotes.

Oh yeah I also forgot I take some incredible shots at prairie dogs. But there is really no risk of injuring one where as if the bullet lands in the vicinity of one of those even shards of dirt can kill those little suckers.

My feeling on deer is that they are a protected species and there are limited tag allocations for them. The risk of injuring one or not cleanly harvesting one is more dramatic than the non-game species.


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## RandomElk16

Aren't there American Snipers on here? I know quite a few that are
hunters. I (meaning any long range hunter) only take shots I KNOW I can
make. Figure, anytime you kill an animal at a greater distance than you
ever have, even if it was only 200 yards, did you KNOW you could make
that shot? Look at my link, or the video on page 2, those shots were
made, cleanly in the boiler maker mind you, by people who knew they
could make them, that's why there is a dead animal laying there. These
are shots exceeding 1000 yards that are cleaner than most average joes
make at 100. That is my point. Any real long range hunter you talk to 1)
knows what the h*** he is talking about 2) takes shots he knows he can
make. I know of way more unethical, missed, and botched shots of short
distance than I do long. Wounded and lost animals. That's because the
people taking long shots, minus the outlier of the occasional hillbilly
doing a 6 foot holdover, know what they are doing. If the animal is hit,
it's usually cleanly. The same can't be said about all hunters who are
"ethically" hunting short range. How many rounds have they put through
their gun? Some have shot maybe 100 rounds in their whole life. Do they
disassemble, clean, tinker with, and know every working part of their
weapon? A guy aiming high or low on an animal, with no idea about the
wind, weather, slope, etc... is putting the animal at way more risk than
someone taking a shot at "500, 650, and 800 yards on a 1000" that knows
exactly what they are doing. Long range hunters adjust high end optics
so they are aiming dead on, not guessing where the bullet is going. I
again invite you to click on my link and look at the shots, and the
perfect placement.

I don't want to generalize. Plenty of hunters who would not shoot a far
distance know their weapon and know their shot. My point is, that short
range group also holds more of the poor hunters because the room for
error and hitting the animal are greater. At long distance, there is no
room for error. So not many people make the shots unless they know what
they are doing. Yes, new or less experienced long range hunters may not
make a perfect kill. But same can be said about any new or less
experienced hunter with any weapon, at ANY range.

The guy in the first post, he doesn't count. Those people give long
range a bad name. But no worse than the drunk road hunter who takes a 50
yard shot gives hunting a bad name. These are OUTLIERS.

Any real long range hunter you meet will know exactly what he is talking
about. And the reason they enjoy it and the kills are ethical and clean?
That's because these guys feed on the precision.


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## RandomElk16

And just to clarify, I don't think its for everyone. Not even most people. I just don't like that these posts target a group of people and even go as far as saying rude things. Saying you are unethical and not a real hunter... Don't really thing that's a fair label to put on a group.


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## royta

RandomElk, if you have a 7.35 MPH wind blowing at a 56 degree angle away from the shooter, what is that wind doing at 250, 400, and 535 yards on a 750 yard shot? Has the wind changed directions or speed anywhere between 0 yards and the 750 yards? How do you know?


It sounds like you're a heck of a shot, but is that something you really want to do on a protected species? Or do you think that should be limited to paper?


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## Guest

I apoligize if I sounded like I was labeling all long distance shooters as being unethical, because there not. The guy in the first post is unethical though. I used to be a PMI in the USMC and trained often for competition matches. I know a thing or two about putting rounds on target. I copied and pasted this: The longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill was made by PPCLI Corporal Rob Furlong of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan during Operation Anaconda in 2002. Using a .50-caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle, Furlong shot and killed an opposing combatant soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres (1.5 miles) 

Very impressive, but I doubt he would attempt the same shot while hunting big game. I have several freinds who have built up guns for long distance shooting and they all say the guy in the first post is a world class idiot. They know him too. So thats who I was referring to, not to all of you long distance shooters out there. 

Paul


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## RandomElk16

Depends which way the wind is moving and the range. Full-value wind will need a lot of adjusting. Some angles need no adjusting. Depends whether its day or night and what the thermal winds in the area do. I carry an anemometer and shoot a lot. Obviously these shots aren't made frequently by people because its luck.

At 200 yards wind doesn't make much difference. But at 300 it can. How many that oppose long range can I take to their hunting ground right now and the can tell me humidity, elevation, temperature, or other questions i ask? How many though are willing to take a shot past 200? What is your limit? What do you view as ethical? 

I am becoming a better shot everyday, but have a hell of a lot to learn! I personally am not ready for a 1000 yard game shot. To be honest, I muzzleload for deer. I am just saying that precision is not unethical. They don't go out shooting game as a practice, they pull the trigger on a distance when they are ready.


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## RandomElk16

Paul_S said:


> I apoligize if I sounded like I was labeling all long distance shooters as being unethical, because there not. The guy in the first post is unethical though. I used to be a PMI in the USMC and trained often for competition matches. I know a thing or two about putting rounds on target. I copied and pasted this: The longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill was made by PPCLI Corporal Rob Furlong of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan during Operation Anaconda in 2002. Using a .50-caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle, Furlong shot and killed an opposing combatant soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres (1.5 miles)
> 
> Very impressive, but I doubt he would attempt the same shot while hunting big game. I have several freinds who have built up guns for long distance shooting and they all say the guy in the first post is a world class idiot. They know him too. So thats who I was referring to, not to all of you long distance shooters out there.
> 
> Paul


The first sentence is all I was looking for. Obviously the guy in the first post was said hillbilly holdover in my post. Not ethical, and fortunately usually miss. But heaven forbid the planets align and he shoots one in the leg or a**. I appreciate your involvement with our armed forces!

My point was, if you know you can make it then its ok. Like I tell my kids "know means know" ;-)

So you have to really know, not assume. I target shoot way further than I would game shoot. You become accurate at 1000 and you might be ready for 600 on game. But people that know their shot are in a different group than said idiots.


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> I am just saying that precision is not unethical.


Ethics are personal. What you believe to be ethical others may not and vice versa. Regardless of how skilled a shooter is, I don't believe it is ethical or "hunting" to be shooting at an animal over 500 yards away. Those are my beliefs/ethics....agree or not, that is something I believe in. And, it is really not about quickly and humanely killing the animal....

....I believe strongly in fair chase. At what point does long range shooting violate that principle? Is it fair to the animal if you are so far away that it cannot detect you, but you can detect it? Look at it this way: at 1000 yards, you are more than a 1/2 mile away from the animal. With your naked eyes can you discern your target at that distance as a buck? IF so, can you discern how many points that buck has?


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## royta

RandomElk16 said:


> My point was, if you know you can make it then its ok. Like I tell my kids "know means know" ;-)
> 
> So you have to really know, not assume.


Without several sets of windflags located at specific distances downrange, nobody KNOWS windspeed and direction. This is especially true when there are topography changes (something you won't find at the rifle range). Wind speed and direction can and will change between muzzle and target, several different times I might add, and unless you're capable of compensating for all these combined changes, a 90 degree (in relation to centerline of bore) 10 MPH wind at 125 yards, a 25 degree 6 MPH wind at 175 yards, a 15 MPH wind directly at the shooter at 356 yards, and so on and so forth, you shouldn't be taking the shot. In a hunting situation you're definitely not capable of even measuring that, so how can you possibly compensate for it? If your target is a coyote, prairie dog, or extra large piece of paper, it might not matter. But I think it matters a lot when we're talking about protected animals.


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## Guest

You can give a guy the best and most accurate gun in the world but that doesn't mean he's going to hit what he's aiming at. It's all technique, deep inhale, exhale, adjust body to get on target, not gun, slowly squeze trigger within the 3 second rule and if the kick dosen't scare the h*** out of you then keep praciticing.

I like the way Randomelk16 talks about shooting and hunting. We need more like him out there.

Paul :!:


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## RandomElk16

wyoming2utah said:


> Ethics are personal. What you believe to be ethical others may not and vice versa. Regardless of how skilled a shooter is, I don't believe it is ethical or "hunting" to be shooting at an animal over 500 yards away. Those are my beliefs/ethics....agree or not, that is something I believe in. And, it is really not  about quickly and humanely killing the animal....
> 
> ....I believe strongly in fair chase. At what point does long range shooting violate that principle? Is it fair to the animal if you are so far away that it cannot detect you, but you can detect it?


I understand you have rebutted two of my posts where I mention ethics. Of course yours and mine can be different. But that is my point, it is ethical to some, including me, to take a shot that you know you can make. I mentioned ethics because everyone gets on here saying it isn't ethical. Thats fine that is your opinion. People are allowed to share that, but I can then refute and say that by making a long range hunter feel in the wrong or calling him names saying he should lose his rights is wrong. You haven't made remarks but others have on here. As far as your last question about detection, isn't hunting all about that?? Camo, scent away, blinds, tree stands. If i am wearing blue jeans and orange but someone is wearing camo in a tree stand with a blind how are they giving the deer a chance?


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## RandomElk16

royta said:


> Without several sets of windflags located at specific distances downrange, nobody KNOWS windspeed and direction. This is especially true when there are topography changes (something you won't find at the rifle range). Wind speed and direction can and will change between muzzle and target and unless you're capable of compensating for a 90 degree (in relation to centerline of bore) 10 MPH wind at 125 yards, a 25 degree 6 MPH wind at 175 yards, a 15 MPH wind directly at the shooter at 356 yards, and so and so forth, you shouldn't be taking the shot. In a hunting situation you're definitely not capable of even measuring that, so how can you possibly compensate for it? If your target is a coyote, prairie dog, or extra large piece of paper, it might not matter. But I think it matters a lot when we're talking about protected animals.


Like I said, it is a lot to do. Lots of variables. I skipped multiple grades in math as a kid and maybe thats why I love the concept of long range. Formulas, numbers.. It's exciting. But, you can be wrong when calculating any variable and should minimize that as much as possible. Some know the formulas well enough to a certain range to continually make shots that far. Its as easy for some to make a 800 as it is for others at 100.



Paul_S said:


> You can give a guy the best and most accurate gun in the world but that doesn't mean he's going to hit what he's aiming at. It's all technique, deep inhale, exhale, adjust body to get on target, not gun, slowly squeze trigger within the 3 second rule and if the kick dosen't scare the h*** out of you then keep praciticing.
> 
> I like the way Randomelk16 talks about shooting and hunting. We need more like him out there.
> 
> Paul :!:


I really appreciate that. Thank you for having a good discussion as well. Keeps the mind ticking!


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## Mr Muleskinner

I thought along same line with the comment on detection but still agreed with the post for the most part. I as well don't get the long range thing for game animals. I don't have problems with those that do so and are capable, it's just not my cup of tea. I dropped an antelope from almost 800 yards a few years back. It was the longest shot I have ever taken on something that I intended to eat. It just didn't feel the same to me as far as hunting goes even though it was one single shot and a very quick kill. It took most of the hunt factor out of it for me.


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## wyoming2utah

RandomElk16 said:


> As far as your last question about detection, isn't hunting all about that?? Camo, scent away, blinds, tree stands. If i am wearing blue jeans and orange but someone is wearing camo in a tree stand with a blind how are they giving the deer a chance?


yes, exactly. A big part of fair chase, to me, revolves around the "hunt"...the art of getting close enough to the deer without being detected. This art is totally thrown out the window with long range hunting. Instead of "stalking" or "hunting" the animal, they leave out the stalk and simply shoot the animal before it has any chance of detecting you. Camo, no matter how good; scent away, no matter how good; and even blinds and tree stands still give the animals a fighting chance. They still have the opportunity to use their senses to escape...at ranges up to and over 1/2 mile away, deer or elk will not only lose their ability to sense you, but they won't even perceive you as a threat most of the time. To me, you have taken the "chase" out of hunting and turned it into "shooting". To me, that is unethical! Obviously, you disagree. And, as long as it is legal, arguing about it is like pissing in the wind...


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## royta

RandomElk16 said:


> Like I said, it is a lot to do. Lots of variables. I skipped multiple grades in math as a kid and maybe thats why I love the concept of long range. Formulas, numbers.. It's exciting. But, you can be wrong when calculating any variable and should minimize that as much as possible. Some know the formulas well enough to a certain range to continually make shots that far. Its as easy for some to make a 800 as it is for others at 100.


I'm not talking about the steady 10 MPH breeze at a 90 degree angle to the centerline of the bore. I'm talking about multiple wind speeds and directions. How can you measure that?

I also am fascinated with long distance shooting, and have done plenty of it on targets and varmints during zero wind days. I've also doped the heck out of the wind with my .22-250 on rockchucks on my parents' ranch just outside Yreka, CA when I was growing up. However, if it's breezy during big game season, folks need to use a little common sense. In my opinion, a shooter is making nothing more than a wild arse guess if there's even the slightest breeze on a long distance shot. A known steady breeze at a known angle is one thing, but how often does that happen in the mountains? I can answer that for you. Never.


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## Mr Muleskinner

wyoming2utah said:


> And, as long as it is legal, arguing about it is like pissing in the wind...


how hard is the wind blowing? what is the velocity and density of the piss?


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## RandomElk16

royta said:


> I'm not talking about the steady 10 MPH breeze at a 90 degree angle to the centerline of the bore. I'm talking about multiple wind speeds and directions. How can you measure that?
> 
> I also am fascinated with long distance shooting, and have done plenty of it on targets and varmints during zero wind days. I've also doped the heck out of the wind with my .22-250 on rockchucks on my parents' ranch just outside Yreka, CA when I was growing up. However, if it's breezy during big game season, folks need to use a little common sense. In my opinion, a shooter is making nothing more than a wild arse guess if there's even the slightest breeze on a long distance shot. A known steady breeze at a known angle is one thing, but how often does that happen in the mountains? I can answer that for you. Never.


You are right. I am not proficient enough yet to know every time, thats why I already said I don't make the shot. I know where I hunt how the canyon winds and thermal winds act. I calculate the coriolis. I watch mirages when I can. Biggest benefit is shooting small game at long distance in my hunting area to practice. If i am at a ridge top shooting down a canyon or at the bottom shooting up, multiple winds are less likely. If I am shooting over rolling hills, could have a problem. I have known people to flag areas. Some just get to enjoy calm conditions on hot days. You can put yourself in a 1000 yards with some pretty decent conditions depending where you are.

As a marksmen though, you know it can be done. I have met a handful who can and have done it. Consistently.

Like I said, not ready for 1000 on big game. But if I keep making it on small game, i may give it a shot.


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## Longgun

Paul_S said:


> Do they have a humor section? Anyways my blood pressure is fine and next time something P***** you off just remember how silly and assinine your being.
> 
> Paul


lol, i believe we all have gotten off in the weeds with this particular subject. My apologies for sounding like an azz. ;-)


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## Guest

Were good longgun.

Paul


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## Longgun

paul_s said:


> *you can give a guy the best and most accurate gun in the world but that doesn't mean he's going to hit what he's aiming at. It's all technique, deep inhale, exhale, adjust body to get on target, not gun, slowly squeze trigger within the 3 second rule and if the kick dosen't scare the h*** out of you then keep praciticing.*


^^^this^^^


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## Longgun

Paul_S said:


> Were good longgun.
> 
> Paul


Likewise sir, and thank you for your service.


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## Whiskey Hound

After reading the discussion on this topic I simply cant believe no on pointed out the obvious. The dude obviously didnt read the range finder correctly. The range finder was set on inches and that comes out to just about 45 yards. There, problem solved. He is a bad shot.


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## Kwalk3

I met a guy up hunting once that told me his goal was to shoot an animal at 1 mile this year. I smiled, laughed, then realized he was serious. I know some people are great and ethical long range shooters, but when you tell me you've passed up several different animals because they were "too close" kinda rubs me the wrong way. Just because I feel I'm effective to 60 yards with my bow doesn't mean I'm gonna pass up a buck because it's broadside at 30.


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## Kevin D

I ran into an old friend up deer hunting this year and he was quick to show me his new shooter. It had a 30 inch barrel that was at least 2" in diameter and weighed about the same as a Jeep axle. He said his goal this season was to shoot a deer at 700-800 yards and was unlikely to pull the trigger on anything closer.

I have no doubt of the rifle's ability or of my friend's shooting competence to connect on such a long shot. I guess my concern is at what point does it cease to be hunting and become target practice on live animals?? I have no answer.


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