# 6.5 caliber help



## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

I have posted about this subject on another Facebook page I have received lots of input regarding the matter BUT, for the life of me I can’t decide on which one to build!

Fallow along with me.
So, my buddy and I are each going to build a custom gun together. 

Here are our goals for this gun build.
Light weight
Light recoil
Super accurate 
Usability with good temp stable powder
As long of barrel life as possible (caliber depending)
Burn less powder
Kill mule deer from 100-600 yards
(Further maybe? Don’t say it can’t be done!)

Like I said, these rifles are going to more than likely be out dedicated deer rifle, and elk in some cases.
A 0-600 yards capable deer gun.
Back packing gun, made with pure badassery gun, etc.

I’ve done SO MUCH research on these calibers.
I was originally looking into the 7mm-08, 
First off, that’s one heck of a gun! My uncle won one at a RMEF banquet years ago and claims it’s his new favorite gun. Killed a Couse at 700 yards and his wife killed a Couse at 600 yards.

Then I started looking at the 6.5-284. Now that is one heck of a gun! It’s pulling out some incredible numbers on a BC calculator. Although I wouldn’t do it but, I watched a guy on the TUBE shoot an elk at 925 yards with it.

My only setback with the 6.5-284 is the barrel life. I keep reading mixed reviews about it being a barrel burner.
Some guys claim 1000-1200 rounds and other guys are saying they are getting 2000-2500 rounds and even some guys are getting as little as 800 rounds out the tube.

The 7mm-08 seems to be holding consistent reviews about 3000-4000 rounds out the tube

THEN I thought maybe a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I’ve never been a fan of the creedmoor until I started looking into the mathematical identity of the bullet. 
I still have mixed feelings about it though. To me a 6.5 Creedmoor isn’t anything special until you push a 143gr ELDX out at 2700+ fps. (If I shoot any lighter of a bullet I’ll shoot my 243) but, the 6.5 Creedmoor seems to be holding a consistent review of barrel life around 3000 rounds.

SO...
I’m 85% sure I’m gonna do a 6.5 caliber and I’m deciding on the 6.5-284 or the 6.5 creedmoor. 

Now, here’s my thought. If I go with a Creedmoor, more than likely I will try and push a 140 VLD or a 143 ELDX between 2700-2800 fps.
So why not just go with the 6.5-284 and load it to the same standard as the creedmoor, even spicing it up a bit and shoot the same bullets in the 2800-2900 fps?..!
I’m wondering about how these shooters are burning up barrels so quickly with the 6.5-284 and I realize that a lot of them are match shooters shooting 10 and 20 shot strings multiple times a day all year long and a majority are shooting top end speeds 2950-3100fps.

So I’m looking at how much barrel life I’ll have left after developing a load. Hopefully all goes well with that. 

I realize that an animal might not know or care the difference, I think you could say that the real difference will show on a chrony, paper, turret etc but, according to the BC calculator the 6.5-284 is still hitting with 1000 lbs of energy at 1000 yards if the bullet is pushed at 2850+ where as the creedmoor might be able to do this as well but, you might be maxing out the load at that point and I don’t necessarily want to build a gun, max it out, hope it performs.

If anything I feel like I could load down the 6.5-284 and still be running in the 2800+fps with a good safe load and I would think by doing so it would extend the length of barrel life.

What to do? Is my question, disadvantages one over the other? 

Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard about all the other 6.5 calibers, 260’s 284’s etc but, I ain’t interested. Also let’s just not go there please.

Sorry, there may be some grammar errors in this post because I am typing on my phone as opposed to my computer which is with my wife at work. And I’ve got Carpenter’s hands so they are pretty rough! But, you know what they say about carpenters hands! 😉🙀😉


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

There are so many cartridges out there today, it can be pretty tough to finally decide what will suit your needs best. Sounds like you've poured over it quite a bit!

Of the 2 mentioned, I'd lean towards 6.5-284 for the added velocity, and if elk are in the picture. There are always concerns with barrel life, but you can replace the barrel if/when needed.

If you're into loading and want to tinker, I'd suggest taking a look at the 6.5 Sherman or 6.5 Sherman Shortmag. My 6.5 Sherman is similar to a 6.5-06 AI, but will get another 100 FPS. I'm currently slinging 140 VLD's at 3167 pretty easily. Others state close to 3300 FPS with N570 powder. Forming cases from 270 Win is very simple and forming loads have been very accurate. Rich Sherman had something like 1500 rounds down the tube and was still shooting .5 MOA.

The 6.5 Sherman Short is based off the SAUM cases. The shoulder is pushed back slightly, with the case blown out. It's a true short action magnum cartridge allowing you to utilize heavy bullets without impeding your case capacity. Velocity is similar to the long action version of 3200 FPS with a 140. Another cool thing is that head stamped brass will be available this summer from ADG!

Here's a link to his website if interested: 
https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

You can go short action with a creedmore. The 6.5 284 would be best in a long action. 

6 of one, half dozen of the other-- just like many comparisons. If you hand load then go with the 284 and give yourself more options. With the Creedmore you have fewer options.

And there are hundreds of calibers and loads that can shoot deer at well over 600 yards. But animals aren't gongs......

..


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

For reasons mentioned, 6.5 x 284.

I had one built a few years back on a 700LA sporting a 26" Shilen, you wont be disappointed.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Packout said:


> But animals aren't gongs......
> 
> ..


Oh, I definitely understand this. I've made
Shots out to 600 yards with less complicated gear then what I have now.

I'm pretty steady on a trigger and would consider shooting out to 500-600 yards is easy shooting but, I make sure I factor in every obstacle before taking a shot like that. Math doesn't lie if it's done right.

1000 yards is a different story. I shot my Couse deer last year at 1016 yards and I had 3 different wind direction and wind speeds to work with. It was TOUGH and it took 2 shots to truly read what the wind was doing, 3rd shot proved all the corrections were made as i delivered a lethal shot and the rest is history.
I will NEVR shoot that kind of shot again in any hunting situation unless it's the last day at the last 10 minuets because that shot was tough! That shot gave me a lot of perspective.

I can shoot 1/2 MOA out to 800 but, from 800-1000 my shooting can go up to 1 MOA and maybe a little more depending on the day.

I want to make sure the gear can preform.

What action can you build a 6.5-284 off of? Will a 308 work? Or do I need to get 270 action?


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

Longgun said:


> For reasons mentioned, 6.5 x 284.
> 
> I had one built a few years back on a 700LA sporting a 26" Shilen, you wont be disappointed.


I'm gonna take an action off of a gun so, which one works best? I'm doing a 700 action but, do I take that off of a 270? Or what..
I think I'm gonna do a krieger 1.8 twist on a 25" pipe.... at least, that's they way I'm leaning as of now


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

You'll want a LA from a 270 Win, 280 Rem, 30-06, 25-06, etc.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

It kindof feels the winds of change are moving past the 6.5 creedmore lately. Lots of people coming out with disappointment and other issues. I was looking into the creedmore recently, ran across this guys very interesting video on issues with the 6.5 creed






-DallanC


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

DallanC said:


> It kindof feels the winds of change are moving past the 6.5 creedmore lately. Lots of people coming out with disappointment and other issues. I was looking into the creedmore recently, ran across this guys very interesting video on issues with the 6.5 creed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's funny, I watched this video this morning! I thought it to was interesting but, videos are also show of guys shooting precision with the creedmoor.
I'm so OCD though, I'd watch a video like this and never be able to shoot a creedmoor accurately..


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

goosefreak said:


> That's funny, I watched this video this morning! I thought it to was interesting but, videos are also show of guys shooting precision with the creedmoor.
> I'm so OCD though, I'd watch a video like this and never be able to shoot a creedmoor accurately..


Lol that is funny.

But seriously, for quite a while all things 6.5 Creedmore were unicorns and rainbows. Its only lately you start to run across more and more ... ummm shall I say, "less than glowing" comments and blogs about it. The honeymoon seems over.

-DallanC


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

You can get 2900+ fps with a 270 WSM and a 140 gr Nos AB...


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> You can get 2900+ fps with a 270 WSM and a 140 gr Nos AB...


Oh, I know but the 6.5 loaded
To the exact same specs out shoots the 270WSM in the long range game. According to the BC calculator

And the 270 has more recoil and less barrel life I believe.

I'm gonna put a break on my 6.5 build because I want as little recoil as possible so I can see my impact if I'm all alone.

When I re barrel my 270 short I'm gonna break it as well.. and put a 1.9 twist on it.

Besides why stop at a 270? 
I was gonna do a 300 win mag but, then comes the recoil issue. Even with a break.

Also, if loaded right, the 6.5-284 and some 270WSM loads keeps up with the 300 will at the long range game but, not at the short range game..


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

goosefreak said:


> Oh, I know but the 6.5 loaded
> To the exact same specs out shoots the 270WSM in the long range game. According to the BC calculator
> 
> And the 270 has more recoil and less barrel life I believe.
> ...


Just making a simple statement is all. I have a break on my wsm made by a gunsmith friend of mine. I can see the impact through the scope.

You can custom load most anything and get overlap performance. I don't know that a few thousandths more of BC makes the 6.5 perform better if you try and keep the BC as close as possible to each caliber and shoot side by side. It's almost as though a bullet was designed specifically for the 6.5 to outperform because of growing popularity.

In the end, they may be fairly equal. But the .277 is more common and you can buy a box of 270 wsm at Walmart when in a bind.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I know but the 6.5 loaded
> ...


You are right, they are pretty close to the same as far as performance.

The last time I shot a box of factory ammo was 15+ years ago. I basically started reloading my own ammo since I was old enough to deer hunt. I don't see a bind in my future. Made that mistake once going duck hunting, now I set everything out the night before (in some cases weeks before) ammo has always been the first think to go in my truck, then all my essentials go nest to my cloths I wear for the next day and finally I put my keys in my gun case and set 3 alarm clocks the night before. I'll even leave sticky notes in my truck.

I've never actually been diagnosed with OCD but, my wife tells me I am all the time..
When I rebarrel my 270short I might try the 165gr matrix bullet...

Sounds like based off your opinion, you'd either go with the 7mm-08 or something like a 300 rum. What good is burning all that powder gonna do if I can't shoot it comfortably.... 
I have a 30-06 I could load heavy I guess.

This gun build is going to be a high elevation gun as I never hunt deer below 10,000 feet so it will realistically a 0-500 yard gun. And even at that most shots will probably be 0-400.
When I start talking about LR capability's, it's because I took the Boy Scout motto seriously "be prepared".

Besides, my 270 short is surprisingly heavy! I mean don't get me wrong, I lug it around the mountain but, I notice it.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Is 2,000-2,500 rounds considered a barrel burner? How much does accuracy or consistency drop off after 2,500 rounds?

I can’t think of a single bolt action rifle I’ve ever shot 2,000 rounds out of. Actually, I’m not sure if I’ve shot 2,000 rounds through all bolt actions combined in my 30+ years of hunting. 

I definitely shoot more as a reloader during load development but once the ideal results are reached the shot count drops off considerably.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Either is great, but if it were a toss up, Id go with the short action that also now has Lapua brass available with the small primer.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

KineKilla said:


> Is 2,000-2,500 rounds considered a barrel burner? How much does accuracy or consistency drop off after 2,500 rounds?
> 
> I can't think of a single bolt action rifle I've ever shot 2,000 rounds out of. Actually, I'm not sure if I've shot 2,000 rounds through all bolt actions combined in my 30+ years of hunting.
> 
> I definitely shoot more as a reloader during load development but once the ideal results are reached the shot count drops off considerably.


I shoot often, several outings a year I suppose.
If it's a 1000-1200 round barrel, it would only take a few years, how much I shoot.

If it's 2000-2500+ then I can definitely live with that...


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

I've been shooting a 6.5x284 Norma/Win long before a lot of you went to the prom with your dad and came home with your mother. I have a 1000 yd comp gun with more than 2000 rounds through it and my daughter shot consistent 4-5" groups with it at 700 yards in the fields behind Wellsville last summer. I have three other 6.5x284s (two with match chambers) and one of them has 1256 rounds through it's Shilen barrel and still shoots like it did the day I chambered it. I'm not buying the barrel-burner argument. I will admit I roasted a Wilson barrel pretty quickly though.
I chambered a Savage 6.5 Needmore last fall and....well...yawn. It's a fun little caliber and seems to be inherently accurate but I don't see what all the hoopla is about.

The 6.5x284 Norma/Win is the only caliber that kicks like a .308 but preforms like the big boys at long range. I know that's a superlative statement but I'm sticking with it.

140 A-Max for hunting. 139 Lapua Scenars and 140 Barnes Match Burners for poking holes in random things. H4350 and H4831sc have also been good to me.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

goosefreak said:


> That's funny, I watched this video this morning! I thought it to was interesting but, videos are also show of guys shooting precision with the creedmoor.
> I'm so OCD though, I'd watch a video like this and never be able to shoot a creedmoor accurately..


 Just go with the 7-08 and be done with it.


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

goosefreak said:


> Sounds like based off your opinion, you'd either go with the 7mm-08 or something like a 300 rum. What good is burning all that powder gonna do if I can't shoot it comfortably....


My top four are: 270 WSM, 7MM WSM, 7 MM Rem Mag, and .25-06.

The first three all have breaks, my daughter (14 at the time) comfortably shot the 7 rem mag last May on her first oryx hunt in NM. She will use it again on her 2nd oryx hunt this Dec. She will use the .25-06 on her antelope in Oct and my younger daughter will use the 270 WSM on her elk hunt in Dec and the .25 on her deer hunt in Oct. The 7mm WSM has clocked elk at 600 yds.

Never cared for the ballistics on the 7mm-08 either and won't touch a 300 RUM...

I can load a 270 as cold as I need to reduce recoil, but with a good break, it is unnecessary.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

7MM RELOADED;[/quote said:


> Just go with the 7-08 and be done with it.


I know right! That's a sweet caliber!


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> My top four are: 270 WSM, 7MM WSM, 7 MM Rem Mag, and .25-06.
> 
> The first three all have breaks, my daughter (14 at the time) comfortably shot the 7 rem mag last May on her first oryx hunt in NM. She will use it again on her 2nd oryx hunt this Dec. She will use the .25-06 on her antelope in Oct and my younger daughter will use the 270 WSM on her elk hunt in Dec and the .25 on her deer hunt in Oct. The 7mm WSM has clocked elk at 600 yds.
> 
> ...


I'm working on a new load for my 270WSM and shot an awesome group with the 150ABLR at 100 yards but at 200 yards they wouldn't group smaller than 3 inches, ( I shot 2 separate days and same results) so I ran a 140 accubond with 65gr of H1000 and it shot a 7/8 group at 200 yards but it's only doing 3030fps. Fast enough really. Especially if all I'm doing is dialing a turret.

I don't know how people do it but once I get up to 3200 fps with my 270, I start getting pressure signs

What are you shooting out of your 270?


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

goosefreak said:


> I know right! That's a sweet caliber!


I've been nothing but impressed with my boys 7mm08. Its been a fantastic rifle... I wish I had bought my wife one back in the day vs her 243. She's killed one heck of alot of critters with it for sure... and breaks out the 30-06 for Elk and her Mt Goat. Coulda done it all with a 7mm08.

I really want a AR10 in 7mm08.

-DallanC


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

DallanC said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > I know right! That's a sweet caliber!
> ...


What bullet are you guys pushing out of that 7mm-08? I'd still consider it..


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

140gr Accubond. From my boys rifle: 5 dead elk now, 2 antelope and a mule deer (all his other deer were muzzleloader).


-DallanC


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

goosefreak said:


> What are you shooting out of your 270?


140 gr AB and 58.0 grs of IMR 4350. This load is able to consistently hit clay pigeons (skeet) at 400 yds, cold barrel or hot it doesn't matter. Muzzle vel is around 3000 +/-.

Doing the same with my 7mm WSM but with 64 grs of the 4350. Muzzle vel is a touch under 3200. I should look at doing something with the 150 gr ABLR. Might be a touch slower to start, but the higher BC will likely perform better out farther.

I agree, if I were in the market for a less recoil rifle out of the box and didn't have what I already have, I'd look at a .284 with a .308 casing as well. I prefer that over the 6.5 Creed.


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## waspocrew (Nov 26, 2011)

For some reason, I tend to overlook the 7mm-08, but it's definitely a proven round. Seems like a 140 class projectile is the "go-to". Any heavier and I'd feel inclined to step up to a 280 Rem or 280 AI just to push them faster.


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## goosefreak (Aug 20, 2009)

High Desert Elk said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> > What are you shooting out of your 270?
> ...


 Those 150 ABLR definitely look good on the Calculator! And I shot a 3/8 group With them at 100 yards but, when I took them out to 200 yards I couldn't get them to group tighter than 3 inches. I tried 2 separate days, of two 3 shot groups

I'll never do load development at 100 yards again, because that was a perfect example of how things can change. I zero my guns at 200 yards anyways, and luckily I loaded up a set of 140 Accubonds and they shot a 7/8 Group at 200 yards Group at 200 yards, So I am going to take those out one more time and double check that grouping and if it remains the same then I will load a bunch up and collect my long-range data. Like I said, they're doing 3000+ but I wish they were a little closer to 3100.

But, I believe shot placement trumps caliber size and speed but, I believe shot placement trumps caliber size and speed. especially if I'm dialing up a turret.

I did load up a set with IMR 4350 at 58gr When I go back out to do my double check, I'm going to see if those loads give me faster speeds and same grouping size.

I had a 1/2 MOA load with a 130 accubond but they were doing 3400 and hot! And I didn't like that, so I've gone back to the drawing board and I'm doing some new development.

I think I've got it figured out with the 140, I just need to confirm it.

When I re-barrel my 270 short, i'm going to do a 1.9 Twist on a 25 inch barrel with a muzzle break To shoot a heavier bullet a little bit better.

I have edited this post about 100 times because my phone keeps double spelling my entire conversation, and I keep fixing it but, it not getting fixed..... I think I've got it...
I think my phone is OCD!!


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## High Desert Elk (Aug 21, 2012)

Yeah, been shooting the 140 AB for years now and have killed a lot of elk and a few oryx with that load set up.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

goosefreak said:


> I'm gonna take an action off of a gun so, which one works best? I'm doing a 700 action but, do I take that off of a 270? Or what..
> I think I'm gonna do a krieger 1.8 twist on a 25" pipe.... at least, that's they way I'm leaning as of now


This action was off an old Remmy700LA 30-06 that I found at a pawn shop for an absolute steal as the barrel and stock were really chewed up. My gun Plummer trued the action and lapped the bolt lugs. Tube is a 1-9 Shilen, Select Match Grade #7 taper. Shoots the Berger 130 VLD's half moa or better. I don't recall off hand what load recipe it likes nor the velocities but will be happy to relay this info later if you like.


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## tshuntin (Jul 13, 2008)

Have you looked at the 6.5 prc? Just listened to a podcast Gunwerks did recently on it.


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)




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## moabxjeeper (Dec 18, 2012)

Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but what did you decide on? I had the same exact dilemma after deer season last year. I have a 7mm Rem Mag that work awesome but got to thinking and decided I wanted a deer-specific rifle that accomplishes most of the same goals as you listed. I poured hours and hours into researching ballistics charts, forums, people's personal experiences, recommendations from "professional hunters"... It was almost an obsession for a while there. What I settled on was the 7mm-08, and I think it's one you should put more emphasis on.


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