# Spidey Rumor



## short_stack_ 13 (Jul 14, 2008)

Read the thread on MM forum that Spidey has been taken by Mossback's guys.Can anybody confirm, or has anybody heard different?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Spidey is dead! A lot of hard work went into getting this amazing bull on the ground.

Now I can sit back and watch all the idiotic comments from the Posse haters. o-||


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## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

I can hardly wait for pictures with mullet heads in them!!!

sawsman


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Very cool...when can we expect the story?


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## short_stack_ 13 (Jul 14, 2008)

If thats the case a big congradulations goes out to the hunter and Team Mossback, great job on taking an awesome bull!


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Good now the rumors can stop. Congrats to the hunter and guides. Just curios what tag did the hunter have? (LE drawn, Auctioned, etc..)


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Very cool...when can we expect the story?


http://www.mossback.com/

truemule, the hunter had the Governors tag.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks, hopefully they will get the full story and pics posted up soon. A huge congrats to the lucky hunter!!!!


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## lone hunter (Jan 23, 2008)

Mosback has posted the the hunter is Denny Austad. I have no idea who he is, and congratulations to him. 

However, I find it somewhat nauseating that he will now be posted on every magazine cover as the great hunter to conquer the great spider. Let's not forget all the money, man hours and modern technology that was used to slay him. I am fearful that we praise they guy that kills the big one, at whatever costs, but will criticize the hunter who goes it alone, ethically, public land and takes a small or average buck or bull. Who is the better hunter? I think it is going to be a very bad thing for the future of hunting.


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## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

lone hunter said:


> However, I find it somewhat nauseating that he will now be posted on every magazine cover as the great hunter to conquer the great spider. Let's not forget all the money, man hours and modern technology that was used to slay him. I am fearful that we praise they guy that kills the big one, at whatever costs, but will criticize the hunter who goes it alone, ethically, public land and takes a small or average buck or bull. Who is the better hunter? I think it is going to be a very bad thing for the future of hunting.


 :roll:


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

lone hunter said:


> Mosback has posted the the hunter is Denny Austad. I have no idea who he is, and congratulations to him.
> 
> However, I find it somewhat nauseating that he will now be posted on every magazine cover as the great hunter to conquer the great spider. Let's not forget all the money, man hours and modern technology that was used to slay him. I am fearful that we praise they guy that kills the big one, at whatever costs, but will criticize the hunter who goes it alone, ethically, public land and takes a small or average buck or bull. Who is the better hunter? I think it is going to be a very bad thing for the future of hunting.


Agreed...+1,000,000!


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## RuttCrazed (Sep 7, 2007)

Denny has harvested a few nice animals with Mossback, congrats on this one.

Rut


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> lone hunter said:
> 
> 
> > Mosback has posted the the hunter is Denny Austad. I have no idea who he is, and congratulations to him.
> ...


What utter NONSENSE! You guys crack me up. Of course I fully expected this crap from w2u, thanks for keeping to form.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> lone hunter said:
> 
> 
> > Mosback has posted the the hunter is Denny Austad. I have no idea who he is, and congratulations to him.
> ...


-500 4/8 :roll:

On a positive note:

Congrats to Mossback and all of their hard work. They along with this lucky hunter have re-written history.


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## weatherby25 (Sep 10, 2007)

Here is my take on this. It kinda sucks that it was the Mossback crew that help get this bull. BUT no one else been able to get on this bull. Mossback did what no other hunter has been able to do. This bull was IMHO the most sought after and populer bull there has ever been. The hunts started well over a mouth ago and no one has put it down. Mossback steped up and did there job and put the bull on the ground. My hat is off to them and to the hunter. Job well done.


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## drifter (Feb 19, 2008)

suave300 I agree. Bart your attraction and affection to Doyle is what is nauseating. The number of spotters and team members is an insult to the real hunter. The real hunter works hard at a job finds a few days to hunt a friend or family. They take their son, daughter, wife ,father or grandfather. They dont have 50 people telling them where their animal is. They dont have 50 people doing this for months. They walk, they spot, they share all the fun with the expectation of time in the mountains with family and friends is a sucessfull hunt. Bringing home game is an extra special day. That to me is a hunt . This was a execution paid for by $$$$ that has nothing to do with hunting. This type of SHOTING is not hunting it is just not. 

I dont post a lot but this is one thing that is absolutely wrong in Utah. Sorry is this offends but I dont mind to share how I feel.

Drifter


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## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

drifter said:


> suave300 I agree. Bart your attraction and affection to Doyle is what is nauseating. The number of spotters and team members is an insult to the real hunter. The real hunter works hard at a job finds a few days to hunt a friend or family. They take their son, daughter, wife ,father or grandfather. They dont have 50 people telling them where their animal is. They dont have 50 people doing this for months. They walk, they spot, they share all the fun with the expectation of time in the mountains with family and friends is a sucessfull hunt. Bringing home game is an extra special day. That to me is a hunt . This was a execution paid for by $$$$ that has nothing to do with hunting. This type of SHOTING is not hunting it is just not.
> 
> I dont post a lot but this is one thing that is absolutely wrong in Utah. Sorry is this offends but I dont mind to share how I feel.
> 
> Drifter


Drifter, you miss read my rolling eyes. I was not agreeing with him at all. I think someone that has help as "guides" or friends is no different, other than money has exchanged hands. If I wanted my friends to come help me on a hunt, I would offer to help pay for gas and food and time. Which is money exchanging hands. I think if you want help, it doesn't matter who helps you. Everyone loves to have help on a hunt.


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## prettytiedup (Dec 19, 2007)

This makes me a little sad. I remember as a kid my dad and uncle talking of "ghost in the mist" and these mountian monarchs. I had really hoped that spidey would disapear never to be seen again. I understand that mossback put a great deal of time and effort into killing this bull, and the hunter paid a great deal to kill the bull. I have no opinion of mossback per se except I hate to see the comercialization he has brought to the world of hunting. I just think is is kind of a sad end to a bull EVERYONE has seen and known about. In a way I think a bull like this deserved better than getting killed after surviving the archery, rifle and most of the muzzleloader hunt.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

drifter said:


> suave300 I agree. Bart your attraction and affection to Doyle is what is nauseating. The number of spotters and team members is an insult to the real hunter. The real hunter works hard at a job finds a few days to hunt a friend or family. They take their son, daughter, wife ,father or grandfather. They dont have 50 people telling them where their animal is. They dont have 50 people doing this for months. They walk, they spot, they share all the fun with the expectation of time in the mountains with family and friends is a sucessfull hunt. Bringing home game is an extra special day. That to me is a hunt . This was a execution paid for by $$$$ that has nothing to do with hunting. This type of SHOTING is not hunting it is just not.
> 
> I dont post a lot but this is one thing that is absolutely wrong in Utah. Sorry is this offends but I dont mind to share how I feel.
> 
> Drifter


What is "nauseating" is you trying to take cheap shots on me and others you have never met.

Yes, it is true I consider Doyle a good friend, so what! My point is the hypocrisy from you and others is amazing. As sauve300 mentioned, why is a hunter hiring "50 guides" (which is a HUGE exaggeration) any 'worse' than what I did on my LE hunt this year where I had more than a dozen good friends help out on my hunt? FYI, I didn't harvest an animal, does that make it more 'honorable'? :roll: I can cite instances where "DYI" hunters have had 50+ 'helpers' on their hunt, why is that 'better' than what the guy who put over $150,000 into Utah's economy?


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## drifter (Feb 19, 2008)

Bart what you seem to of missed is this. Where did it say I have never met you or many of the people with the Team? I have met you and most of the team. You seem to be telling untruths!!! I still stand by what I said. This is not HUNTING. There are many illisit things that can put money into the economy. You seem to want to use that as your basis for your argument. Money money money. Again that is not hunting

Drifter


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

-^|^-

Illicit - Illegal, unlawful...I wasn't aware of any information that this bull was taken in an "illicit" manor.

Someone on here is telling untruths...-^|^-


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

drifter said:


> Bart what you seem to of missed is this. Where did it say I have never met you or many of the people with the Team? I have met you and most of the team. You seem to be telling untruths!!! I still stand by what I said. This is not HUNTING. There are many illisit things that can put money into the economy. You seem to want to use that as your basis for your argument. Money money money. Again that is not hunting
> 
> Drifter


If we have indeed met, send me a PM and identify yourself!

You are mistaken, it is you and your ilk that think it is all about money. I don't care if the hunter spent $1.00 on the hunt or $150,000, he still had to be there to put a Barnes bullet into the bulls chest! I dare say the HUNTER involved spent MORE days in the field HUNTING than most/all those condemning him as being nothing but a 'shooter'. This myth people keep repeating about the hunters just showing up and pulling the trigger is pure BS!

What "untruths" have I told? I want specifics! Don't call me by my name and then call me out unless you have PROOF to back it up! Again, post specific FACTS/evidence to support your claims. Otherwise go back under the bridge.


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## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

I know the Mossback crew are hard core hunters and probably very passionate about the future of hunting. I know they work hard to harvest the animals they do...

But, I agree 100% that conservation tags (or anything similar) are nothing but poison for the future of hunting. I believe that these tags take away opportunity from the the normal every day hard working hunters and give opportunity to those with lots of money. I believe that if we continue down this path, the first people that are going to lose interest are the blue collar folks that make up the solid hunting base and are the backbone of the Western culture. That is bad for hunting and bad for everyone involved. 

All the time I am seeing more and more people that think hunting is about killing a record book animal and not about the experience. What kind of an experience is it to pay to hunt an animal with a caderie of outfitters spotting and tracking the animal so someone can show up and pull the trigger? With the spidey bull, Mossback has had individuals tracking, spotting, searching and scouting everyday for several months now...the hunter who killed that animal has hardly been on the mountain that long.

I think as a hunting fratenity, we need to embrace those folks that are truly overjoyed at harvesting an animal regardless of the size of its antlers. That is where most of us started out and that is where our future is. 

With all that being said, do I want some areas that are managed for quality animals, definitely, but we all need to have an equal chance of obtaining those premium tags regardless of our income or financial status.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Why all the hijacking? Start your own thread with your opinions... -^|^-


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## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

wyoming2utah said:


> But, I agree 100% that conservation tags (or anything similar) are nothing but poison for the future of hunting. I believe that these tags take away opportunity from the the normal every day hard working hunters and give opportunity to those with lots of money. I believe that if we continue down this path, the first people that are going to lose interest are the blue collar folks that make up the solid hunting base and are the backbone of the Western culture. That is bad for hunting and bad for everyone involved.


Amen brother. why not just sell all tags to really bring in the money! i would bet they could get over a few million by just selling monroe tags.


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## drifter (Feb 19, 2008)

Bart you said I was taking "cheap shots" at people I have never met. I have met you and many team members. So that is not the truth! You said I took cheap shots . My opinion that this is not hunting is not a cheap shot it is my opinion. another untruth!!

Bwhntr, I did not say this bull was taken in an illicit manor. I said there are many illicit ways to put money into the economy. 

You pro mossback guys can sure get your panties in a wad if someone has a different opinion than yours. 

Being called "you and your ilk" by Bart. It seems the name calling and accusations are not coming from anyone other than yourselves.

Drifter


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

How many times are you going to post that?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

drifter said:


> Bart you said I was taking "cheap shots" at people I have never met. I have met you and many team members. So that is not the truth! You said I took cheap shots . My opinion that this is not hunting is not a cheap shot it is my opinion. another untruth!!
> 
> Bwhntr, I did not say this bull was taken in an illicit manor. I said there are many illicit ways to put money into the economy.
> 
> ...


Still waiting for you to MAN UP and identify yourself. :roll:


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

> Illicit - Illegal, unlawful...I wasn't aware of any information that this bull was taken in an "illicit" manor.


Illicit - disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons.

Certainly, Spidey was taken in an illicit manor in some people's eyes.

Who is telling untruths now? :roll:


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

Shh! Don't tell anybody, but the Spidey curse is beginning to show it's ugly head! See, I told you so!!!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

_(O)_


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Igottabigone said:


> > Illicit - Illegal, unlawful...I wasn't aware of any information that this bull was taken in an "illicit" manor.
> 
> 
> Illicit - disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons.
> ...


 :roll: 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illicit

Not me! _(O)_


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

> Not me!


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illicit

Are you sure? :roll:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

> not legally permitted or authorized; unlicensed; unlawful.


Quoted off of your own link...get over it.

So, yes I am sure! O|*


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

> Quoted off of your own link...get over it.
> 
> So, yes I am sure!


Please see second definition on the link. :roll:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I don't know the details of the Mossback guided hunt and how it happened, but using a previously mentioned example used to justify it of spending $150,000 for a bull with 50 guys helping you do it to me is just shy a couple percentage points of a canned hunt.

Was Spidey roped and tied to a tree before the dude dumped him?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> I don't know the details of the Mossback guided hunt and how it happened, but using a previously mentioned example used to justify it of spending $150,000 for a bull with 50 guys helping you do it to me is just shy a couple percentage points of a canned hunt.
> 
> Was Spidey roped and tied to a tree before the dude dumped him?


Pay attention, there was NEVER anywhere close to "50 guys helping"! But, do you have a problem with a 'local' having "50 family/friends" helping him get an animal? If not, then you are a hypocrite.


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

> Pay attention, there was NEVER anywhere close to "50 guys helping"! But, do you have a problem with a 'local' having "50 family/friends" helping him get an animal? If not, then you are a hypocrite.


You miss the point. The "50 guys helping" are being paid for their help. While "50 family/friends" are presumably not being paid. Big difference. It is basically the commercialization of hunting that is being frowned upon. Hunting then becomes a job instead of pastime.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know the details of the Mossback guided hunt and how it happened, but using a previously mentioned example used to justify it of spending $150,000 for a bull with 50 guys helping you do it to me is just shy a couple percentage points of a canned hunt.
> ...


I've never paid all my uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, grandparents, brother-in-law's, sister-in-laws, nephews, nieces, cousins, $150,000 to put me in front of an animal.

With more and more high dollar hunters putting thier names in the books I'm gaining more and more respect for virtual hunting. You know the hunts where the camera is mounted on the rifle and the hunter is at the computer moving the gun and cross hairs around and pushes a button to fire and the animal is mailed to him/her. Sounds much more sporting to me.

As Darth Vader said to Luke.... "Impressive, most impressive"


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Igottabigone said:


> > Pay attention, there was NEVER anywhere close to "50 guys helping"! But, do you have a problem with a 'local' having "50 family/friends" helping him get an animal? If not, then you are a hypocrite.
> 
> 
> You miss the point. The "50 guys helping" are being paid for their help. While "50 family/friends" are presumably not being paid. Big difference. It is basically the commercialization of hunting that is being frowned upon. *Hunting then becomes a job instead of pastime*.


And what is wrong with that? All the family/friends are getting 'paid' as well, just not in the same way, but they sure get something out of it, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

Where is the response Drifter? I'm STILL waiting for you to MAN UP and identify who you are, so as to prove you "know Bart". Where are you? :?


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## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

> And what is wrong with that? All the family/friends are getting 'paid' as well, just not in the same way, but they sure get something out of it, otherwise they wouldn't do it.


I never said anything was wrong with it. I was pointing out that you missed the point. Apparently, you still are missing the point. Family and friends are not dependent upon killing an animal for their livelihood. Sure they get something out of it, but not money. That is the difference.

Also, assuming that boundary lines of the unit is considered a "fence." There is really no difference between this and a "high fence" or "canned hunt." That is what people do not like. In fact, I think even you would agree that high fence hunts are not really considered "real hunts."


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm confused Pro and you are the one I'm afraid are the hipocrite.

Its a passion?

Hunting?

*WRONG!!!!!*

Its neither hunting or a passion. To you and you like you, its a *BUSINESS TRANSACTION*

Don't try to push something that is coming out of the south end of a north bound male cow for something other than what it is.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

I think it is impressive that a "good ol boy" sport such as hunting can be turned into a successful business. Talk about the American dream of successfully building a business based around your hobbies. Going to work and doing what you love and making money at it. Not only putting money in your pocket but growing it to a point many other guides can support their families doing what they love as well. Capitalism at it's best! Not too many can do what Doyle Moss as accomplished with his dream. Nothing illegal, just doing what he loves. This is great, and it is promoting a great past time activity that more of our young generation needs to be involved with. Get them away from the television and the video games. Get them out in nature and marvel the great sounds of elk bugling, grouse thumping, fishing, etc. I think it is great that they can offer this kind of service to dedicated hunters who want to experience the hunt on a different level.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

*******Mod warning shot*********

Just a quick reminder to EVERYONE - be civil and keep personal attacks out of here or this thread gets shut down. 

Thank you. Carry on.

********Mod Warning Shot********


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## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| more beer please this is getting good.


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

My Hunting crew would have killed him a month ago. :mrgreen:


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## yearight (Sep 30, 2008)

PROUTDOORS, you said it yourself "posse haters" another word for a group of individuals doing something illegal or unethical is a GANG. I don't like GANGS and you can argue all you want but the truth will still be the truth and the facts won't change because you don't like what someone says. 

The following is taken for the DWR Ethical hunting handout

"Fair chase
Many ethical questions face hunters. And many more will arise as technology advances. Now, more than ever, hunters must keep the fundamentals of ethical hunting in the forefront of their minds.
A good way to determine whether a hunting practice is ethical is the concept of fair chase.
Fair chase forms a balance between the hunter and the hunted in which the wild animal usually escapes unharmed but is sometimes taken by the hunter. Fairness to the animal, and its chance to escape unharmed, might be the best way to determine if a behavior is ethical or unethical. Many hunters would deem unethical any practice that tends to give him an unfair advantage over his prey."

I think the shoe fits

I'm not a hater of the Mossback GANG but I despise the unehtical way you KILL TROPHY ANIMALS. Again the truth is the truth and facts are facts. 

If the MOSSBACK GANG does not hunt unethically I'll fall over and Die right now. Oh wait i'm still alive.

Mossback Team ha, more like Mossback GANG

How many people does it take to kill a trophy animal?

Answer: as many as Doyle needs.

Here are the facts about the Mossback GANG. 

FIRST LIAR DOESNT HAVE A CHANCE

Im sure the truth about the kill and the story the hunter tells when he gets home will be completely different.

Truth; Doyles GANG of 4 or more unlincsed hunters( they are unlicensed hunters because they are hunting for a certain animal with the intent to have someone KILL it) scour the mountain looking for the trophy animal. Once it is found they use their radios and cell phone to call in the location of the animal. 

Doyle and the KILLLER arrive at the designated meeting place. while one of the unlicensed hunters keep an eye of the unsupecting trophy.

Doyle, his GANG and the KILLER arrive and after video taping the animal and setting up the shot, the KILLER makes an awesome 200 yard shot and KILLS the Trophy. 

There is hooting and hollering and hand shakes to go around. More video is shot and the KILLER tells the cameraman how happy he is that Doyle and his GANG are so good at find trophys for him to KILL.

STORY TOLD AT HOME

Boy I spent 7 days of hard hunting with Doyle and then on the seventh day were came over a ridge and there he was, the trophy of a life time. I took a 500 yard shot and down he went. I worked my butt off for this trophy and everyone can do it.

DWR

I hope DWR eventually changes the rules in the proclimation so unethical hunters like the MOSSBACK GANG can stop their illegal hunting.

The facts are Doyle is interested in money, recognition and making his videos. The MOSSBACK GANG does not conduct a "FAIR CHASE HUNT" All of Doyles little minons can rant and rave against this post but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH and your arguing does change the FACT of HOW the MOSSBACK GANG hunts and conducts business.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

:roll:


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> I think it is impressive that a "good ol boy" sport such as hunting can be turned into a successful business. Talk about the American dream of successfully building a business based around your hobbies. Going to work and doing what you love and making money at it. Not only putting money in your pocket but growing it to a point many other guides can support their families doing what they love as well. Capitalism at it's best! Not too many can do what Doyle Moss as accomplished with his dream. Nothing illegal, just doing what he loves. This is great, and it is promoting a great past time activity that more of our young generation needs to be involved with. Get them away from the television and the video games. Get them out in nature and marvel the great sounds of elk bugling, grouse thumping, fishing, etc. I think it is great that they can offer this kind of service to dedicated hunters who want to experience the hunt on a different level.


Sure, I can go along with a successful business proposition and the American dream of building a business based around your hobbies, going to work and doing what you love and making money at it, but............ how about they try their luck at a used car dealership instead? I think Pro and Doyle would be awesome at it!!!!

Making money on a limited and natural resource doesn't fly real well with me.

Pro and Doyle's clientale aren't the younger generation unless they are kids or the kids of fathers who have a lot of serious cash flow. The only experiance for the kid that buys an animal to shoot only teaches them more of the attitude of "easy come, easy go." The critter was paid for before the "hunt" even started.


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## Mntman (Nov 16, 2007)

To change it up a little :mrgreen: Congrats to Denny and Mossback. It is an incredible feat to find this bull and to get him on the ground(proven by how long it has taken) cause if it was such a canned hunt as some have stated it would have been over the 1st day. 

I do have to say that Denny hunted harder than me for our elk this year, it only took me one day of hunting to get my bull with a bow last week :mrgreen: . I'm sure he was in the woods more than me. 
Congrats again to them, waiting for the pics.

I have to throw one comment out there to the moss-haters. The guy has the money and did what is within the law and if you had the money you would have done the same thing. So give it up and just be happy that you are around to see one of the biggest elk to ever be taken past, present or FUTURE!


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is impressive that a "good ol boy" sport such as hunting can be turned into a successful business. Talk about the American dream of successfully building a business based around your hobbies. Going to work and doing what you love and making money at it. Not only putting money in your pocket but growing it to a point many other guides can support their families doing what they love as well. Capitalism at it's best! Not too many can do what Doyle Moss as accomplished with his dream. Nothing illegal, just doing what he loves. This is great, and it is promoting a great past time activity that more of our young generation needs to be involved with. Get them away from the television and the video games. Get them out in nature and marvel the great sounds of elk bugling, grouse thumping, fishing, etc. I think it is great that they can offer this kind of service to dedicated hunters who want to experience the hunt on a different level.
> ...


Tree, where do I find that smiley?? This guy needs one too!


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

I will say I bought one of the mossback videos. I currently have over 20 big game hunting videos and the first mossback video was the last mossback video. While it is nice to see all of the trophy animals. I prefer the videos of the guys trying to show me something of the hunt. I know they get to hunt nice ranches and have better opportunity then I do. I am of the opinion that it is still more fair then the alledged practices of Mossback. I would guess the guy who takes the shot gets the same video presentation that I got and says yeah that is the one I want lets get it. Call the guy and tell him I am on my way. BANG goes the gun. Hunt over. Yipee. Nice shot. 

Just not for me. 

There was a guy on another forum that ran into Doyle and said he was very friendly. He hunted the same unit just this year during the archery hunt. I don't think it is a bad business to be in. I am jealous of the time they get to spend in the field. But I don't care for the guy who buys the tag and shows up for the trophy. But that is how the business makes money.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Mntman said:


> To change it up a little :mrgreen: Congrats to Denny and Mossback. It is an incredible feat to find this bull and to get him on the ground(proven by how long it has taken) cause if it was such a canned hunt as some have stated it would have been over the 1st day.
> 
> I do have to say that Denny hunted harder than me for our elk this year, it only took me one day of hunting to get my bull with a bow last week :mrgreen: . I'm sure he was in the woods more than me.
> Congrats again to them, waiting for the pics.
> ...


I don't think I'll go down quite that easy.

Its a terrible think to see "hunting" go this way. If hunting becomes a business and for the filthy rich, I'm not in the running. The tradition and heritage is lost. The "sport" becomes a menu with game animals on it with the prices next to it and would be to me, even if I did have the money, not a thrill or a passion, it would be similar to going to a restaraunt ordering up and then paying the bill. Like I said before......... impressive.


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

yearight said:


> The facts are Doyle is interested in money, recognition and making his videos. The MOSSBACK GANG does not conduct a "FAIR CHASE HUNT" All of Doyles little minons can rant and rave against this post but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH and your arguing does change the FACT of HOW the MOSSBACK GANG hunts and conducts business.


I smell a troll :twisted:
[attachment=0:2o5jpjv8]258Troll_spray.jpg[/attachment:2o5jpjv8]

Its funny that some people have nothing better to do than complain about others success. :roll: You find it all over the internet from here to ksl to cnn to youtube. Where ever people can give opinions you have this happen. Congrats for being one of these people yeaHright!


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Making money on a limited and natural resource doesn't fly real well with me.


So, you are against mining/lumber/farming/commercial fishing/livestock operators/etc.. Good on you, you have just shut down the American economy! :roll:

yearight, -^|^- nuff said!


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Its *a terrible think* to see "hunting" go this way.


 -_O- -BaHa!- -oooo- -/O_- Freudian slip?!


----------



## Mntman (Nov 16, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Mntman said:
> 
> 
> > To change it up a little :mrgreen: Congrats to Denny and Mossback. It is an incredible feat to find this bull and to get him on the ground(proven by how long it has taken) cause if it was such a canned hunt as some have stated it would have been over the 1st day.
> ...


There is ONE govenors tag for elk in the state of Utah, and how many in the draw? 
This isn't ALL the hunting there are still dad's, grandpa's, aunt's and daughters still out there in the majority doing it every year. 
These tags supply a huge amount of money to the state and help you and your family shoot a "normal" bull. So why again are you complaining that some guy spent a huge amount of money to hunt legally to help your hunting oppurtunites?


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > Its *a terrible think* to see "hunting" go this way.
> ...


Happy hunting pro.

When the greed and money bubble burst, my suggestion for your used car dealership will become reality.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Greed, what greed are you talking about? I make a LEGAL living working my butt off, how is that being "greedy"? I am willing to bet I work harder at my profession than you do at yours, so I think that makes YOU greedy!

Hunting isn't going away anytime soon, and if it does it will be because wanna be hunters who can't get an animal on the ground turn on those who CAN/DO and feed the anti's all the fuel they could ever hope for. Not *ONE* single law was broken in getting this animal on the ground, so what is so "unethical/greedy" about that? :roll:


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

Pro, 

How many animals have you taken with "Squatters"? Just curious.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Riverlution said:


> Pro,
> 
> How many animals have you taken with "Squatters"? Just curious.


Please explain. I am honestly at a loss as to what you are implying/asking. :?


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

"Squatters" you know guys who sit on an animal for months until you show up to shoot it. 

Babysitters, campers, camp dogs, I don't know the term. I just call them squatters.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Greed, what greed are you talking about? I make a LEGAL living working my butt off, how is that being "greedy"? I am willing to bet I work harder at my profession than you do at yours, so I think that makes YOU greedy!
> 
> Hunting isn't going away anytime soon, and if it does it will be because wanna be hunters who can't get an animal on the ground turn on those who CAN/DO and feed the anti's all the fuel they could ever hope for. Not *ONE* single law was broken in getting this animal on the ground, so what is so "unethical/greedy" about that? :roll:


Greed isn't something I believe I need to explain to you or anyone else. 
Why do you have to justify your answer with the term "legal living" with "legal" all in caps (is your conciounse getting in the way?).
I don't give a huge rats azz about anti's. They have a different set of values, beliefs and direction to shut down hunters than guides do which in some ways are commendable and have nothing to do with greed which is also commendable.

Much of the reason hunting continues is the history, heritage, and tradition. Do you expect that to occur with your and other's guide services? How feasible is that for the "regular joe" hunter. How long do you think that with this type of mentality (big bucks buys big hunts with big animals) will the "regular joe's" tradition, history and heritage last with the big money gobbling up all the opportunity?

Please answer at least attempt to answer a couple of these questions.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Riverlution said:


> "Squatters" you know guys who sit on an animal for months until you show up to shoot it.
> 
> Babysitters, campers, camp dogs, I don't know the term. I just call them squatters.


My answer is ZERO.


----------



## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

"Squatters"???
Hmmmmm, guess that most if not ALL of us are "squatters", now my kids have a new nickname for me because i help them kill animals!!

Keep in mind that ANYONE with a Monroe tag could have taken that bull just as Denny and the Mossee Possee did.
The only thing they have over anyone else was the time and resources to get it done.
Illegal or unethical.....I don't think so.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Greed isn't something I believe I need to explain to you or anyone else.
> Why do you have to justify your answer with the term "legal living" with "legal" all in caps (is your conciounse getting in the way?).
> *I don't give a huge rats azz about anti's. They have a different set of values, beliefs and direction to shut down hunters than guides do which in some ways are commendable and have nothing to do with greed which is also commendable.*
> 
> ...


----------



## wyoming2utah (Sep 12, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> time and resources


Or "squatters".


----------



## Donttreadonme (Sep 11, 2007)

I can't believe the time I have waisted reading this......you guys are good entertainment. 

**** out of popcorn again. Pass me another bucket please. o-|| o-|| <<--O/


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Any more 'tough' questions for me?[/quote][/quote]

Why do you have to use the term "legal living" with legal in caps?


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

That is what I thought. I am lucky to find somebody to hunt with me let alone sit on an animal for me. Do people pay you to use squatters? Have you sat on an animal until a hunter has shown up to shoot it? Why don't you use squatters? Still curious.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Any more 'tough' questions for me?


[/quote]

Why do you have to use the term "legal living" with legal in caps?[/quote]Put the cough syrup down and try and make a post that is legible! :?


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

skull krazy said:


> Hmmmmm, guess that most if not ALL of us are "squatters", now my kids have a new nickname for me because i help them kill animals!!


Glad I could help. Will you come hunting with me next year? I will feed you and send supplies once a month. I have tried to enlist the help of the sheep herders to see if I can pay them some extra $ to find an animal for me. No ingles is all I understand though. I am not above utilizing a squatter. If the price is right.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Riverlution said:


> Do people pay you to use squatters? Have you sat on an animal until a hunter has shown up to shoot it? Why don't you use squatters? Still curious.


I have never been paid, nor paid for "squatters". I have never "sat on an animal, nor have I had another person sit on an animal, until a hunter has shown up to shoot it.

I see that wy2ut uses "squatters", you may want to ask him why? :shock:


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Another unaswered question for Pro

With big money (guided hunts, land grabs, "modern hunting techniques")gobbling up the "regular Joe's" hunting opportunity, how many more years do you think you have to guide?


----------



## skull krazy (Jan 5, 2008)

Sure riverlution, i LOVE to "help" people get animals....i like playing "guide" whenever i get a chance, free or paid!


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

Another unaswered question for Pro:

Its not that tough...........Why do you have to use the term "legal living" with the word "legal" in caps when you were talking about your "services"?


----------



## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Pro, why even give these clowns the time of day? Talking sense will do no more than beating your head against the wall. They are jealous thier hunting skills are not up to those who do it for a living. They are simply asking the wrong questions, they should be asking what they are doing wrong in the field instead of bashing others success.


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> Another unaswered question for Pro
> 
> With big money (guided hunts, land grabs, "modern hunting techniques")gobbling up the "regular Joe's" hunting opportunity, how many more years do you think you have to guide?


As many years as I can physically get around the mountain, and then my son will take over the family biz! Hows that? :roll:


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

skull krazy said:


> Sure riverlution, i LOVE to "help" people get animals....i like playing "guide" whenever i get a chance, free or paid!


Which is illegal for a un-licensed guide...criminal.


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

Wy2ut

Do you have squatters? How much does it pay? I am looking for a career change. And can think of nothing I would rather do than sit in the hills looking at animals. I have been watching planet earth and think I could film some pretty neat stuff. 

Everyone keeps talking about Doyles gang. How much does he pay? What qualifications do you need to be a a gang member? Does anyone know?


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> skull krazy said:
> 
> 
> > Sure riverlution, i LOVE to "help" people get animals....i like playing "guide" whenever i get a chance, free or paid!
> ...


He's joking Slammy, he is on our side! 8)


----------



## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

:mrgreen: What, am I dumb? :mrgreen:


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

How do I get Skull crazy a license? It is on me Skull



Riverlution said:


> bwhntr wrote:
> skull krazy wrote:
> Sure riverlution, i LOVE to "help" people get animals....i like playing "guide" whenever i get a chance, free or paid!
> Which is illegal for a un-licensed guide...criminal.


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

bwhntr said:


> Pro, why even give these clowns the time of day? Talking sense will do no more than beating your head against the wall. They are jealous thier hunting skills are not up to those who do it for a living. They are simply asking the wrong questions, they should be asking what they are doing wrong in the field instead of bashing others success.


So in your eyes the obvious thing I'm doing wrong is not having enough money to pay for a guide??


----------



## Igottabigone (Oct 4, 2007)

> He's joking Slammy, he is on our side!


What is your side?


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

Man I can't keep up with you guys. Does he need a license or not?


----------



## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > Making money on a limited and natural resource doesn't fly real well with me.
> ...


What about petroleum? I think he is Amish?


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> bwhntr said:
> 
> 
> > Pro, why even give these clowns the time of day? Talking sense will do no more than beating your head against the wall. They are jealous thier hunting skills are not up to those who do it for a living. They are simply asking the wrong questions, they should be asking what they are doing wrong in the field instead of bashing others success.
> ...


No, he's saying your not good enough to get paid to be a guide!


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > Another unaswered question for Pro
> ...


Just a friendly suggestion..... with the recent trends, declining hunting opportunity and it hapening exponentially, you might want to keep the used car dealership suggestion on the FRONT burner for you AND your kid.

By the way, you still didn't answer my other question. Why are you avoiding it???


----------



## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

:rotfl: -^|^-


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > bwhntr said:
> ...


If I were to start up another hunting guide service, then what in the he!! would you do?


----------



## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> By the way, you still didn't answer my other question. Why are you avoiding it???


I must of missed it amongst all the 'brilliant' things you have said. Please re-ask it.



> If I were to start up another hunting guide service, then what in the he!! would you do?


Sell used cars.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Some killed spidey!


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Everyone has their standards as to what is ethical. I would have loved to see a 14 year old kid on his 1st hunt with his granddad take this monster, but it went down how it did, no changing that.


Riverlution said:


> ....Everyone keeps talking about Doyles gang. How much does he pay? What qualifications do you need to be a a gang member? Does anyone know?


No clue, but wouldn't take much $ for me, and I'd do it. I would bet most others here would too. Paid to scout-trail trophy animals that every time you see them you just wet yourself. I'm in.....now where's my Depends?


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Harry Nutzack said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, you still didn't answer my other question. Why are you avoiding it???
> ...


Why do you have to use the term "legal living" with the word "legal" in caps when you were talking about your "services."


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Harry, are you on drugs? Who let you out of your jail cell today?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

To help you understand that is is LEGAL. I see that that is futile now. :? bwhntr was correct, this is akin to hitting a brick wall. The level of comprehension you display is lower than I could imagine from an adult.


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## omegaman (Sep 20, 2007)

I am sick of reading all this garbage. How bout some pics posted? Thats what it is really all about. If you agree with how it was taken or not, it is still a trophy animal taken on public land in our home state. That along has a lot to be said for it.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

[quote="proutdoors]If I were to start up another hunting guide service, then what in the he!! would you do?[/quote]Sell used cars. [/quote]

I agree 100%. I definitely think you should sell used cars.

I think you should expand your endevours in something much more admirable and parallels your issues of greed and of talking pure B.S.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry Nutzack said:


> [


Thanks for the career guidance. Now I can sleep better tonight.


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## stealinghome (Aug 13, 2008)

Sorry Pro, I just can't help myself.

Mostly I just browse these boards, but some of the logic here just befuddles me and I can't help but post. First off, it seems to me that everyone else had a fair shot at this guy, and Doyle and boys got him. Good for them. 

However, Pro, you keep making the point that there is no difference between me having 10 of my buddies help me hunt, and this guy having 10 of Doyle's buddies get paid to help him hunt. As if the two are somehow the same. 

They aren't. 

Why is prostitution illegal? Money
Why is it illegal for me to sell my elk burger but not illegal for me to give some to my dad? Money
How is a pro athlete different than a college athlete? Money

There are many instances in the world where doing an activity for free is both legal and ethical, and doing the exact same activity for money is either illegal or unethical.

Please don't act like simply because it's fair to do it unpaid, that means it is automatically ok to do it for money.


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## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> To help you understand that is is LEGAL. I see that that is futile now. :? bwhntr was correct, this is akin to hitting a brick wall. The level of comprehension you display is lower than I could imagine from an adult.


Why do you have to qualify it as "legal." Is it questionable? Does it have parameters for it to be legal? Do the folks doing it have problems with those perameters and push the grey and often times into the red to complete their business deal with thier clients?

****, more tough questions for you Pro. See what you can come up with.


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## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

Harry Nutzack, You have a funny username. Thanks for the laugh. :lol: What's everyone talking about? I thought I heard mention of prostitutes?


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## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

Good hell, who opened the gate and let the TROLLS in? -^|^-


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

There sure are a lot of RETARDED ON THIS FORUM -_O- -_O- -_O- -_O- I bet Doyle gets a laugh when he reads crap like this.


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the fact that this bull has been AWOL all fall, when every one and their dog, brother, sister, best friend, and best friend's illegitimate father’s dead aunt's second cousin who was once married to Sarah Palin’s sister, was looking for him, and then Spider suddenly shows up dead with Mossback guiding for big $$$$$$, taken with the governor’s tag no less (more big $$$$$$$$), just seems a little.....suspicious. 
Just saying!


----------



## stealinghome (Aug 13, 2008)

Crap like what coyote?

I personally could care less about Doyle. I'm not a big fan of paying for antlers, but whatever.

I just hate terrible logic. So I am waiting for an answer to my question.


----------



## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Yeah Ironman Doyle probably loaded him up in a horse trailer and put him in a barn for a month and a half to fatten him up a little more before they shot him. :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Its a Conspiracy ahahahahaha


----------



## gwailow (Jan 20, 2008)

Throughout all of this hubbub I think we are missing the most important question that Pro needs to answer in regards to the Spiderbull.....How many times was he gut shot and did the UPS man verify the kill?


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

Ironman, 

Are you suggesting that Doyle and the boys hid this bull until the shooter could get there? I would like to know how this is done. I have heard rumors of guys being told to stay out of areas and such. Trees mistreriously falling down on roads but is all that really true.


----------



## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> *******Mod warning shot*********
> 
> Just a quick reminder to EVERYONE - be civil and keep personal attacks out of here or this thread gets shut down.
> 
> ...


I remember reading all the comments a few months ago pridicting all the fighting and shooting that was going to happen between hunters on the hill persuing spidey. Sounds like the shooting and fighting on the hill turned out pretty quiet compared to all that is going on here - who woulda' thunk


----------



## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverlution said:


> Ironman,
> 
> Are you suggesting that Doyle and the boys hid this bull until the shooter could get there? I would like to know how this is done. I have heard rumors of guys being told to stay out of areas and such. Trees mysteriously falling down on roads but is all that really true.


I'm implying it. When unusually large sums of $$$$$ are involved, some people will do unusually strange things to secure it. 
Now how possible is it? Don't know, never tried...but if I did, I would employ the tactics you mentioned and a few more. I would use a few men on horseback and atv's on the ground and maybe a chopper in the air, it would be done under the cover of darkness with the bells and whistles of night imaging infrared equipment. I would look to move the animal by applying pressure, not too much to cause him to bolt, but enough to get him to where you want him.. may take a few days. If that somewhere is a remote box canyon or has ledges on some of the sides with decent habitat, all the better. Bring along some cows and a few satellite bulls to keep him content and heck, he'd stay put practically by himself. Now close the roads and throw in a bogus DWR officer or USFS officer to deal with the few who actually wander into your little set up and you've got him.
I'm 1st to admit it is not probable...but with some luck/skills and the right amount of $$$$$$ it is doable. 
I'm just saying, it seem odd, all the greenbacks associated with this deal, the bull not seen for weeks and weeks when the most people all fall are in the hills.....


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

the bull is dead. let move on guys. good hell. ,MODS PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD IT GETING OUT OF HAND.


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## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm implying it. When unusually large sums of $$$$$ are involved, some people will do unusually strange things to secure it. 
Now how possible is it? Don't know, never tried...but if I did, I would employ the tactics you mentioned and a few more. I would use a few men on horseback and atv's on the ground and maybe a chopper in the air it would be done under the cover of darkness with the bells and whistles if night imaging infrared equipment. I would look to move the animal by applying pressure, not too much to cause him to bolt, but enough to get him to where you want him.. may take a few days. If that somewhere is a remote box canyon or has ledges on some of the sides with decent habitat, all the better. Bring along some cows and a few satellite bulls to keep him content and heck, he'd stay put practically by himself. Now close the roads and throw in a bogus DWR officer or USFS officer to deal with the few who actually wander into your little set up and you've got him.
I'm 1st to admit it is not probable...but with some luck/skills and the right amount of $$$$$$ it is doable. 
I'm just saying, it seem odd, all the greenbacks associated with this deal, the bull not seen for weeks and weeks when the most people all fall are in the hills.....

I like it. I like it. Do you need a business partner?


----------



## fixed blade XC-3 (Sep 11, 2007)

You started it all dustin. With your popcorn guys and more beer comment. :mrgreen:


----------



## dkhntrdstn (Sep 7, 2007)

fixed blade said:


> You started it all dustin. With your popcorn guys and more beer comment. :mrgreen:


O DONT BLAME this crap on me. :mrgreen: I had to have popcorn and my beer to read all of this Bitching about mossback.


----------



## BERG (Dec 4, 2007)

Shooting and fighting? Where? :? I thought the thread was quite mild.


----------



## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverlution said:


> .....I like it. I like it. Do you need a business partner?


Sure...but you have to have the $$$$$$$!


----------



## kingfish (Sep 10, 2007)

just makes me wonder how "fair chase" of a hunt this was?? lets hire a bunch of people to wonder around and spot and call in the kill. sure looks to be some problems with this type of operation.


----------



## Riverlution (Sep 23, 2008)

Ironman said:


> Riverlution wrote:
> .....I like it. I like it. Do you need a business partner?
> Sure...but you have to have the $$$$$$$!


No but I have the dwr costume.


----------



## BIG DADDY (Sep 16, 2007)

I do not understand the big deal.

Why are so many of you singling out Mossback?
If they are doing something illegal, catch them in the act and report it. 

If you don't like guides, can regular joes lobby for a change in the laws?


----------



## martymcfly73 (Sep 17, 2007)

I can almost guarantee that if I had the money to buy the governors tag, and the money to hire a guide I'd do it. All this self righteous crap about DIY, or pay for a guide is getting old. 

If paying for an elk hunt makes me a ***** or a john then so be it. :shock:


----------



## 1BandMan (Nov 2, 2007)

martymcfly73 said:


> I can almost guarantee that if I had the money to buy the governors tag, and the money to hire a guide I'd do it. All this self righteous crap about DIY, or pay for a guide is getting old.
> 
> If paying for an elk hunt makes me a ***** or a john then so be it. :shock:


There are quite a few folks out there that will indeed keep pimps in business and buy their way to the end and buy thier learning curves as well. The way society is now, who can blame them I guess. Better, faster, more, quicker, right now.....

I honestly cant see how, whatever the dudes name is that shot Spidey, would feel any kind of sense of accomplishement or be able to appreciate Spidey for truely what a magnificent animal he was.
Its got to be for other reasons....notariety, being able to feel more manley, make up for shortcommings in other areas, who knows.

By the way, you would be a John.


----------



## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

From another forum, same topic, interesting story:
http://utahbirddogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2921&start=15#p31784


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

There have been a few requests to shut this thread down. I've looked for some reasons and we are pretty close to that. If we want to keep the discussion about the ups and downs of hiring guides, and if that is as good or bad as someone not - that's cool. Just keep personal attacks out of it please. 

Carry on.


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## elkfromabove (Apr 20, 2008)

I knew the Spider Bull (Spidey, Spiderman) came with a curse, but I had no idea it would involve so many people, so much contention, so much name calling and so many negative insinuations. *And from people who weren't even involved in the hunt/kill !!!*. I thought the curse would fall upon the hunter, but you folks have enthusiastically taken that curse upon yourselves. And your arguing is mostly semantic over the definition of fair chase and where fair chase ends and unfair chase begins.

It's all unfair chase to the dead animal (and animal activists). Think about it. Man is the ultimate predator, not because he is the strongest, nor the fastest, nor the biggest, nor does he have the best nose, nor the best eyes, nor the best ears. He's the ultimate predator because he has the most advanced brain. He can't outrun his prey, he can't outhear them, he can't outsmell them and he can't outsee them, but he can outsmart them. He has invented and uses tools, tactics, and methods that put the prey at a great disadvantage. A gun or bow is a great disadvantage to the animal, as are camo clothes, binoculars, trail cams, blinds, treestands, cover scents, lure scents, bait, ATV's, etc., etc. And the fact that man knows more about the animal and it's lifestyle than the animal realizes is also a disadvantage.

Man could never hunt animals totally on their own terms because that means completely naked in the woods with no tools or weapons of any kind. He's have to wrestle the animal with his bare hands and he could never win on those terms. That's true fair chase!

So, where does it really become unfair chase? Is it the weapon of choice? (You've argued about that already on other threads.) Is it the numbers of hunters? (You've argued about that too.) Is it the amount of money spent?, the method used?, the mode of transportation?, the distance traveled?, the age of the hunter?, the time spent?, the number of tools used?, the type of tools used?, the terrain?, the climate?, the altitude?, etc., etc.

*ALL* of you take advantage of the animals and each of you has your own take on what is acceptable fair chase based on how *you* do it. Just accept the fact that others do it differently and, thus, have their own views of fair chase. What will hurt hunting more is the constant bickering amongst hunters. It's proper to discuss these matters, but hold your tempers, and for hunting's sake hold the personals and name calling. I've said my piece, now I'm gone!

Except, congats to Denny!


----------



## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Best post I've read on this thread yet. Thanks.


----------



## Yonni (Sep 7, 2007)

only took 13 pages of BS to see a decent post gosh!?!?!?


----------



## sawsman (Sep 13, 2007)

Well said elkfromabove.  

sawsman


----------



## bow hunter (Sep 11, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> Best post I've read on this thread yet. Thanks.


+1


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Well said!! PETA LOVES to see hunters fighting with one another and if they can divide us they can conquer us. I get tired of reading threads on here where rifle hunters are blaming archery hunters and archery hunters saying that rifle hunters aren't true hunters. Rifle hunters say that archery hunters get all the breaks. 

I just hope that these groups can unite when things matter the most.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> That's easy for you to say. You get to shoot a rifle from a truck window.


I wish I could trade you any day of the week. I dont hunt to much from the truck and I'm looking at building something similar to a deer cart but it will have a seat and my brother can pull me back into places where you cant get to with an ATV or a truck.

FLY741 had something like this on his hunt.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10064


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## suave300 (Sep 11, 2007)

bow hunter said:


> GaryFish said:
> 
> 
> > Best post I've read on this thread yet. Thanks.
> ...


+2


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## FLY741 (Nov 30, 2007)

And coyoteslayer your welcome to it anytime you need it...


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## danwhip (Oct 1, 2008)

I have to admit, I was never a frequenter of hunting forums until recently. I always hunted growing up, but back then there were no computers or forums. I got away from hunting while I was in the service, but a couple years ago I started back into the sport and like many of you it has started dominating my interests. While preparing for this years elk hunt, I started reading hunting forums to hear about rumors and maybe get an idea of new areas to scout and hunt. Low and behold, the first forum I visit has a video of a huge bull and next thing I know is I am caught up in Spider Fever. 

So I start following the threads and every one of them seem to turn into a bashing/defending of some guy named Doyle. It was only a couple years ago that I moved to Utah, so I had no idea who Doyle was or why it was such a big deal. Being the rational person I am, I did some searching and found out he was Mossback. While many of the bashers painted a picture of an evil villain that is the worst thing to happen to Utah hunting, the defenders made him sound like just the opposite. The problem is that it was all just rumors and hearsay on both sides. To get a better picture of him, I decided to rely on what could be easily verified as fact. The one, most telling fact I found is a video of Doyle carrying a disable hunter on his back up a mountain in order for him to take a deer. Every year Doyle gives a free guided hunt to a disable hunter, which to me shows he is a better person that he gets credit for. Until such time as someone has proof of him or his guides doing something illegal or unethical, I’m going to look at him as a guy that not only consistently finds the best trophies, but who does it while helping those who would otherwise have no chance to get into that caliber of game. 

As for the spider bull kill, I have somewhat mixed emotions on it. In the end, I have decided I’m glad it was a Mossback hunter that got him. Yes, it would have been nice to read about some Cinderella story of a guy on a DIY hunt defying the odds and taking it without help or spotters, but that’s all it would be. Just a story to read about and a couple pictures. With Mossback guiding the hunt, we all now have the opportunity to watch this hunt as it unfolds. Hopefully he will do it right and make an entire video dedicated to this one hunt, starting with the initial scouting of Spidey, the heartbreak of Mr. Austad missing with his first chance, only to get a second chance weeks later. Then we get to see the joy and excitement as they finally take what will almost certainly be the new world record for many years to come. 

As some poor guy from up north that still camps in a tent, I know I will never have the opportunity to hunt with guides. Hopefully one day I will draw out on one of the LE hunts, but if I do I’ll be on a DIY. If I had the money though, you can bet I would be the first to call up Doyle. The hard work and effort he and his staff put into his clients success is incontrovertible, and in the end the results speak for themselves. 

What saddens me most about the whole spider bull mania is what has transpired between members of this and other forums. Perhaps I have just been lucky, but all the hunters I have met have been some of the most honest, helpful people. I don’t know if it is an honest dislike of guides, jealousy of the results that Mossback produces, or just 12-year-olds with an elevated sense of internet bravado. What I do know is the fighting between forum members does more harm to the perception of hunters in general than any law abiding guide service could ever do. 

To the people that say hunting is now a rich mans sport, take a step back and really look at it. 99% of hunters do not hire guides or pay for spotters. We just go into the mountains, set up a camp, and hunt - same as they did 100 years ago. Anyone can buy an over the counter tag for just $35, and just about everyone in the state lives within an hour or two of good public hunting land. Any Utah resident can hunt both deer and elk every year of their life for a very small amount of money. After hunting in Nevada as a youth, it’s amazing how good we have it here in Utah. Sure, it sucks that it takes 10, 12, or 15 years to draw out on a LE hunt, but we can buy tags in years we don’t draw. I was never lucky enough to draw a Nevada elk tag, but from what I understand if you draw an elk tag you cannot even apply for another elk tag for 5 years. If you happened to kill an elk on your hunt, the wait is 10 years. During that waiting time you still have to put in for a deer draw and get a tag hopefully every other year. Utah has a huge amount of game, large areas of public hunting, and tags on the cheap for anyone that wants one, every single year. 

There are negatives and positives to every facet of life. Instead of focusing on the negatives or what you think should be changed, why not look more closely at the positives. We as hunters get the opportunity to do help manage game populations while doing something we love. We get to take that animal home and have plenty of healthy meat to last most of the year. We get to spend time in the outdoors with other people that share our interests and passions. We get to meet people that, for the most part, are the most honest and friendly people you could ever want to meet. 

As for me, I’m going to get back to packing my gear. I’m leaving tomorrow for an open bull hunt on public land where I’m sure to see no monsters, but plenty of nice average elk. I’m going to sit by a fire with friends and family, tell stories and roast hot dogs, and be reminded why hunting season is easily the most satisfying time of the year. When I get back, whether I get an elk or not, I will have new memories to last a lifetime. And in a few months, I’m going to be able to buy a video showing the new world record being shot….in Utah….on public land. For me, the cup is half full.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Great post.

I especially liked this one. :lol: 


> I don't know if it is an honest dislike of guides, jealousy of the results that Mossback produces, or just 12-year-olds with an elevated sense of internet bravado.


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## Spoon (Oct 31, 2007)

"Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius."
- Fulton J. Sheen


Face it, the more haters someone has, the better they are at what they do. By my count, the Mossback folks must be EXTREMELY good at what they do.


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

Great post!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Great post.
> 
> I especially liked this one. :lol:
> 
> ...


+1


Spoon said:


> "Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius."
> - Fulton J. Sheen
> 
> Face it, the more haters someone has, the better they are at what they do. By my count, the Mossback folks must be EXTREMELY good at what they do.


+1
It is great to see several people making their first posts! Welcome guys! Be sure and make an intro in the intro section; it is pretty fun to meet guys who you know in the real world or from the same town.


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

Well said "danwhip"

And Good Luck!!


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> There are negatives and positives to every facet of life. *Instead of focusing on the negatives or what you think should be changed, why not look more closely at the positives.* We as hunters get the opportunity to do help manage game populations while doing something we love. We get to take that animal home and have plenty of healthy meat to last most of the year. We get to spend time in the outdoors with other people that share our interests and passions. We get to meet people that, for the most part, are the most honest and friendly people you could ever want to meet.


You are officially my hero! Welcome to the forum, and good luck on your hunt!


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Great post danwhip, I applaud you for your optimistic perspective. 
I too could have written a post like yours back in the late 80's just before the state went to the draw system and destroyed recreational/family hunting in the state. 
Comparably there are a lucky few who have been able to get through the mess and preserve that tradition, likely the majority of those who post on this forum. But by and large, hunting no longer fits that romantic picture for many who used to enjoy the hunt and the outing with family each fall. Take a look at the school holiday on the 1st Monday of the general deer hunt. When I was a young boy it was called the "Deer hunt holiday." And let me tell you, for a young boy it was just that, the things memories are made of. By the time I graduated high school it had been demoted to "Harvest Holiday" because no longer was the deer hunt a major cultural ritual in this state. Now, for my kids it is called "Fall break!" Mark my words, in another generation the school holiday on the first Monday of the general deer hunt will no longer exist. 
I'm right there with you at the campfire danwhip, but the romance of it all is now only in memories. Admittedly, my glass is cynically half empty.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

To me, the only big difference between 2o years ago and today is publicity.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> To me, the only big difference between 2o years ago and today is publicity.


Bingo!


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## Huntoholic (Sep 17, 2008)

After all that has been said for the last few days, I think it is time to reflect. I decided last night (lots of time in a hotel to think) that I am going to pledge to be a better outdoorsman. I am going to try to be more respectful of others views. I am going to take the best that has been said from these last days and apply it. It does not matter that we may think different, but we can all be better. I am grateful that I do not have to sit at home this weekend and that I will be on the mountain with my son having the time of our life (he has the tag and I am along for the ride). Do I miss some of the old times, yes. But there are some things I don't miss. I most of all I am grateful that after all these years I still love to hunt. I hope that is never comes to the day that I can not, for that would be truely sad. Personally I like "danwhip"'s outlook. May your hunt be what memories are made of.


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Ironman said:


> Riverlution said:
> 
> 
> > Ironman,
> ...


Wow! They were able to move him 15 miles! Looks like I could get a job with Mossback. :shock:


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

http://blogs.sltrib.com/outdoors/index.htm


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Hmmm, I just heard a story of a guy in Saskatchewan that may have sold the bull to some "unnamed" Utahns and that the bull was let out for all to see for a few days in July, then tranquilized and kept in a barn in Sigurd, only to be released when all of the hype had died down.

Can anyone confirm this?


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

Wouldn't be too surprised. Hope he's a legit Utah native though.


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## RobK (Jul 3, 2008)

Ironman said:


> Wouldn't be too surprised. Hope he's a legit Utah native though.


Ditto !!!!

I also hope it's a native Bull and as much as i don't like how the mossback crew works , i don't think they would stoop that low . :roll:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Ironman said:


> Wouldn't be too surprised. Hope he's a legit Utah native though.


 --\O

Stop it tree, you making people look sillier by the minute! :rotfl:


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## Ironman (Sep 7, 2007)

proutdoors said:


> Ironman said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't be too surprised. Hope he's a legit Utah native though.
> ...


How's this for silly? *(u)*


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

The "crew" got him... not just one guy. Yep, not a fan but did any of us really expect any different? :? I will admit, I think something stinks about the whole deal, just the whole disappearance and all of a sudden the money hunter has him in his sights, after the mountain was searched high and low by a bunch of dudes out getting paid just to find the bull for the guy paying the most money for the tag, but I wasn't there and I'm just glad the **** thing's dead. I would have liked to see the disabled fella get him but what do ya do? :| Guess there will always be those willing to capitalize on a dude with money to burn and there's a bit of humor to be had in a guy willing to pay that much for one animal. 

People keep bringing up that if any of us had the money/time/guides that we'd do the same thing. :roll: Emphatically... I will disagree. Sorry, I'm not into hookers... even with nice racks. 8)


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

The pursuit of game can vary so much from one hunter to the next, from doing everything yourself to just being the shooter. We all need to pick what we are happiest and most satisfied with and just do it without so much concern how another might choose to pursue game - as long as it is within the laws, and is ethical (which I think is somewhat in question with the spidey hunt for many).

I personally would not get satisfaction out of having someone else do the footwork for me - let alone pay someone to do it - as that is such a big part of the hunt that I enjoy. I would have loved to have a chance at spidey as I have put in for Monroe for the past 15 years but still have not drawn. Chances are slim that I could have ever gotten him if I did draw, but that would have been a really fun challenge anyway. If I had the money to buy the gov tag, there is no-way I would pay someone to do the footwork as that would deprive me of what I love to do during the hunts. I am sure I would have ended up with a smaller bull, but the satisfaction of having that opportunity would have been awesome. Others obviously do not put the footwork challenge as high on their list and will pay others to do that for them. Not everyone is physically able, or some may just want to be the shooter, or some may just want to brag that they hold the world record - whatever the reason for hiring a guide service, it is a legit option and serves it's purpose for many in their own pursuit of game

Anyone heard spidey's age yet?


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## TRDHUNTER (Sep 11, 2007)

I might as well add my 2 cents.
I am amazed that so many people have such a bitter attitiude. Now is the best time of the year. I have been hunting general units for myself, been on a LE elk hunt with a good friend, and looking forward to more hunting coming up. 
I love to see all the nice animals being harvested and read about the ones that get away.  Yeah, I have my opinions, and hunting in the state has changed a lot, but it is still hunting and beginning the last day of the hunt I am counting down the days till next years hunts start. 
We all should be greatfull to see such a tremendous animal period, much less come from this state. I am still in awe as to an elk being 500'' I have made jokes to family about shooting a 500'' bull and now that was a reality for someone. IncrediBULL.  
Good luck to everyone this hunting season!


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> The "crew" got him... not just one guy. Yep, not a fan but did any of us really expect any different? :? I will admit, I think something stinks about the whole deal, just the whole disappearance and all of a sudden the money hunter has him in his sights, after the mountain was searched high and low by a bunch of dudes out getting paid just to find the bull for the guy paying the most money for the tag


I would bet $100 that it has something to do with those crop circles that they found out in Sigurd! I wonder if the crew made those to create just enough distraction to airlift him out of there, those SOB's, they won't stop short of anything for the mighty dollar. In fact, I wonder if these guys weren't in cahoots with that sasquatch catcher in Georgia, when that did not work out they had to go with the crop circles to get all of the tabloid readers off of the mountain for a day.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Riverrat77 said:
> 
> 
> > The "crew" got him... not just one guy. Yep, not a fan but did any of us really expect any different? :? I will admit, I think something stinks about the whole deal, just the whole disappearance and all of a sudden the money hunter has him in his sights, after the mountain was searched high and low by a bunch of dudes out getting paid just to find the bull for the guy paying the most money for the tag
> ...


 -_O-


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## mack1950 (Sep 11, 2007)

Well i may as well get my feet wet on the subject the post that the newbie put in hit it pretty well on the head. 1ST and formost you can bet that if it wasnt a legal harvest that every c o in the state would have been in doyle camp hand cuffs extended ( AND I DONT MEAN THE PINK FLUFFY ONE  ) 2ND i have hunted with guides and outfitters more than once from montana to canada and have found the one thing the do is work hard and share a love for the outdoors that most of us can only imagine and while i have only meet doyle in passing i have not scene were he differs from others only he has taken a industry that is difficult at past used his own tallent the knowledge of others to aid and created what is known as the possie. makes sense to me if your gonna go into buisness that you use all the legal help you can get your hands on to make it work. 3RD and last we as a group need to get past the negativity basing anyone are anything that has the luck, fortune are hard work and skill to legally harvest a monster bull are buck some of the remark have been demeaning childish and downright mean and not just with doyle an spidey, you look at almost any post of a successfull hunter and there is someone that just has to say something negative about it. one in particular in the muzzy section burned me two young mean harvested a couple of young bucks in what looks like a hayfield and sage sure enough someone had to bash them for not being man enough to hunt in the rough country. **** guys give this crap a brake let them enjoy there moments of success the way each of us hunts is our own **** buisness as long as its legal before i got to **** old for the rough country i lived there during the hunting seasons know hey a nice 3 year ole alfalfa feed buck look pretty **** good to me. so in the long run all i can say is a tip of the hat to the luck spidey basher ( WISH IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME) and a good job to doyle and the possie keep the vidios a coming.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Outstanding post Mack. Thank you.


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## Nebsy (Oct 2, 2008)

*Illegally killed RUMOR!!!*

Heard a "RUMOR" a couple of hours ago that this bull was taken on private property and their is an investigation taking place.
I would hope this isn't true as it puts a stain on hunting.....
Would love to hear first hand from somebody involved. Is this true or not?


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## Nebsy (Oct 2, 2008)

Let me emphasize..... that I heard a 'RUMOR'. I have absolutely no direct information on it. I am curious and that's why I'm asking if anybody in the area knows. 

All else aside..... WOW! What a freaking amazing elk!!!!! 
Anybody hear anything about this bull last year?
Any sheds off of him from previous years?
Anybody get shots at him this year? Last year?
Any video of him from previous years? Would love to see a set of sheds from this bull.

Everybody should put in for Monroe come december!!!!!! Don't forget!!! The Monroe is where it's at... All other units in the state are peanuts compared to the unit where the SPIDER BULL came from. Just think... all of his offspring are running around that unit waiting for you to draw a tag. I heard his sons will be even bigger.. Put in for the MONROE!


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Nebsy said:


> Let me emphasize..... that I heard a 'RUMOR'. I have absolutely no direct information on it. I am curious and that's why I'm asking if anybody in the area knows.
> 
> All else aside..... WOW! What a freaking amazing elk!!!!!
> Anybody hear anything about this bull last year?
> ...


I agree 100%, there are at least 100 more that look just like this. :lol: -/O_- *OOO* :rotfl:


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## wapati (Nov 29, 2007)

jahan said:


> Nebsy said:
> 
> 
> > Let me emphasize..... that I heard a 'RUMOR'. I have absolutely no direct information on it. I am curious and that's why I'm asking if anybody in the area knows.
> ...


Yeah, I've put in for 15 years straight on monroe, with my odds getting down to about a 50% chance, but now they'll be back up to 1 in 130 once again next year


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## MarkM (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: Illegally killed RUMOR!!!*



Nebsy said:


> Heard a "RUMOR" a couple of hours ago that this bull was taken on private property and their is an investigation taking place.
> I would hope this isn't true as it puts a stain on hunting.....
> Would love to hear first hand from somebody involved. Is this true or not?


The rumor's keep flying even after this bull is dead. I heard another good one today that somebody else gut shot spidey the last day of the rifle hunt and than Mossback found him dead :roll: . I will be glad when all this settles down and we move on to next year. Who knows maybe next year there will be a Spider Bull part II the Son of Spidey  .

Mark


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## Nasher (Oct 9, 2007)

> Who knows maybe next year there will be a Spider Bull part II the Son of Spidey


Oh no, this is backwards.. What they shot could have possibly been the son of the True Spider Bull. Either way it is the lesser of the two..
The True Spider-Bull is still alive and happy.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Nasher said:


> > Who knows maybe next year there will be a Spider Bull part II the Son of Spidey
> 
> 
> Oh no, this is backwards.. What they shot could have possibly been the son of the True Spider Bull. Either way it is the lesser of the two..
> The True Spider-Bull is still alive and happy.


Hollywood can't write comedy like this. Do you live next door to 1I? -/O_-


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