# The Wolves of Brokeback Mountain



## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

For a number of years two male gray wolves lived around the Thunderbolt Mountain area just north of the Utah/Wyoming between Meeks Cabin Reservoir and Hoop Lake. I never seen them but heard all the stories from hunters, livestock producers, and the Wyoming Game and Fish. At our big game and fisheries meetings the WY G & F guys would, delightfully, tell stories about these wolves calling them "the Wolves of Brokeback Mountain". Rightfully so I guess, taking into account the two males stayed together all the time even during numerous wolf mating seasons.

The talk around Evanston during the Holiday season was that the Government Trapper got the two wolves this winter. He attended some of our big game meetings and said he would get them.

I'll see if I can get some pictures and a first-hand account of the story. My ex-son-in-law heads the Predator Board over here.

.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Gay wolves in Wyoming? No chance!


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

Just wait until the deer and elk start dropping their sheds. These particular wolves will be out looking for them.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

In my opinion one, if not the, best areas for Moose in the Uintas was centered on the West Fork of Beaver Creek. This area is directly south of Thunderbolt Mtn. and well within the Wolves of Brokeback Mountain's "playground". I wonder what impact, if any, those wolves had on the Utah moose and elk herd there. 

Was anyone up Beaver Creek on the North Slope this past hunting season?

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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

I've been reading up on the wolfies, and the biologists assert that wolves in the lower 48 really have no impact on the moosies. The only wolf kills in Jellystone have been by the Druid pack, when it has been 20+ wolf strong. A pair of wolves simply couldn't take down a moosie. Besides, if your assertions about these wolves are true, then not only are they breaking the law in both Wyoming and Utah (for now), but they are probably vegan, well dressed, and can probably be found shopping on a spring day down at City Creek in Salt Lake.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

I will see if I can pull up a video or two that the Park County Sheriff sent me. I went to high school with him in Cody. He spends every free moment in the park and surrounding areas. He has witnessed wolves taking down many game animals. He sent me a video of a few different packs that exceed 15. One in particular was 23 dogs if I remember correctly. For a while he was sending me a couple videos per week. The moose in Yellowstone, North Fork, South Fork, Sunlight Basin and Krandall were getting hammered. Wolves have no problem taking down young moose. They did not help the moose population that is for sure.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

To be fair though....and clear....I personally think that there can be a balance with wolves and I do not blame the declining moose population on the wolf. That said I am not a pro wolf guy. I would have ZERO problem shooting one or several.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

According to the book I'm reading (and actually really enjoying) titled "Decade of the wolf, revised and updated edition: Returning the Wild to Yellowstone" by Douglas Smith and Gary Ferguson, who are a couple of the wolf biologists in the park. They assert that only packs with 20+ wolves have been able to take out moose or bison. And while the wolves have significantly brought the elk populations more in line with what they should be, unless the smaller packs can get the bison while they are calves, and same with the moose, they aren't getting them at all. The Druid pack has hovered well over 20 wolves for nearly a decade, getting up to something like 37 at a point, seem to have enough to consistently (meaning around a 20% success rate in attacks) bring down adult bison. And that is only in the deep snow in winter when the snow drastically limits the mobility of the bison. 

But back to the original question - can two gay wolves in Wyoming take down a moose? I don't know. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it seems unlikely. Unless they are carrying a glock and riding a snow mobile. But that's just a given.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

GaryFish said:


> According to the book I'm reading (and actually really enjoying) titled "Decade of the wolf, revised and updated edition: Returning the Wild to Yellowstone" by Douglas Smith and Gary Ferguson, who are a couple of the wolf biologists in the park. They assert that only packs with 20+ wolves have been able to take out moose or bison. And while the wolves have significantly brought the elk populations more in line with what they should be, unless the smaller packs can get the bison while they are calves, and same with the moose, they aren't getting them at all. The Druid pack has hovered well over 20 wolves for nearly a decade, getting up to something like 37 at a point, seem to have enough to consistently (meaning around a 20% success rate in attacks) bring down adult bison. And that is only in the deep snow in winter when the snow drastically limits the mobility of the bison.
> 
> But back to the original question - can two gay wolves in Wyoming take down a moose? I don't know. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it seems unlikely. Unless they are carrying a glock and riding a snow mobile. But that's just a given.


I'm a degreed wildlife biologist along with a degree in forest management to boot. I don't trust anything any of those clowns in Jellystone say. My professor did extensive studies in Michigan and Alaska on wolf predation. I know better than the pro wolf government garbage coming out of Jellystone. Two to three wolves are more than capable of taking down a moose. For anyone to assert a pack needs to have 20 or more to take down a moose is a blatant liar and idiot....speaking of the Jellystone wannabe biologists of course.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xntb9w_two-wolves-hunt-down-a-pack-of-bison_animals






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_moose_on_Isle_Royale

I think the wolves have focused more on the elk because they are easier prey but wolves can take on bigger game and the bison calves and moose calves still count. That said the the bison herd has been exploding to the point that they have removed 600 head this year via hunting and slaughter. I have read many claims that the decreased elk population is the main contributor to the rising bison population and that the wolves have in turn started hunting more bison and moose because of it. Interesting stuff. I think I will take a look into getting that book you are reading.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_3a493a0a-a6d4-11e3-b417-0019bb2963f4.html


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> I wonder what impact, if any, those wolves had on the Utah moose and elk herd there.
> 
> .


None as these wolves are clearly Vegan.....duh!-------SS


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## The Naturalist (Oct 13, 2007)

Yes, Bison have increased and it is a good book.
So does anyone know if the wolves for sure have been taken out?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

The Naturalist said:


> Yes, Bison have increased and it is a good book.
> So does anyone know if the wolves for sure have been taken out?


Which wolves?

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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

GaryFish said:


> I've been reading up on the wolfies, and the biologists assert that wolves in the lower 48 really have no impact on the moosies. The only wolf kills in Jellystone have been by the Druid pack, when it has been 20+ wolf strong. A pair of wolves simply couldn't take down a moosie. Besides, if your assertions about these wolves are true, then not only are they breaking the law in both Wyoming and Utah (for now), but they are probably vegan, well dressed, and can probably be found shopping on a spring day down at City Creek in Salt Lake.


That's not what I heard about the wolves in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and especially the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The wolves have just about cleaned out the moose in Michigan's Isle Royale NP.

Hey, are you on the biologist side now?

.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> That's not what I heard about the wolves in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and especially the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The wolves have just about cleaned out the moose in Michigan's Isle Royale NP.
> 
> Hey, are you on the biologist side now?
> 
> .


Goob, my professor in college was one of the primary WB's doing the study on Isle Royale during the 60's and 70's. The wolves did a number on the mooses.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Neither the moose nor the wolf were indigenous to Isle Royale. The moose migrated to the island and two wolves followed them. Here is a pretty good quick read on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_moose_on_Isle_Royale


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Mr Muleskinner said:


> Neither the moose nor the wolf were indigenous to Isle Royale. The moose migrated to the island and two wolves followed them. Here is a pretty good quick read on them.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_moose_on_Isle_Royale


yep

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## 12many (Apr 14, 2008)

very interesting read thanks for sharing.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Well I'll debunk a myth right now. Over the weekend I was watching a documentary on Alaskan wolves. The filmmaker had been following a small pack of 4 wolves and they came across a cow Moose. They started their attack. The moose was able to take out one of the wolves with a kick to the rib area but the other three wolves converged and took her down and killed her in short order. The whole attack from start to finish was less than 2 minutes. So when these a holes tell you it takes a pack of 20 wolves to take down a Moose they are outright lying because I saw with my own eyes and it's on film that 3 wolves took down a fully grown Moose in less than 2 minutes.


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## Mr Muleskinner (Feb 14, 2012)

Always have to be mindful of the source and what/if any agenda they my have. I make a habit of coming to my conclusions after I have had the chance to view a subject from several different angles.


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## GaryFish (Sep 7, 2007)

The book I was reading didn't say that it took at least 20 wolves to take out a moose, just that the smaller packs in YNP tended to elk for most of their food, and it was only the larger packs that would go after the moose. I've seen documentaries where a single wolf took out a moose - filmed in Denali NP. But in the YNP cases, only the larger packs tended to go after the moose and bison. For the most part, the smaller ones stuck to elk. That was all.


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## tallbuck (Apr 30, 2009)

So any idea or proof that these two wolves have been removed from the gene pool? 

Goob, know of any other groups or pair of wolves along the wyo - utah border?


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