# Stoooopit gun laws!



## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Seems to me, we have a lotta Stoopit gun laws that oughta be changed.

Can you think of any, that make it difficult for you, but serves no logical and useful purpose?

For Example, why have a restriction on rifle barrel length? We have auto pistols that are much smaller and concealable than any short barrel rifle, so what purpose is served?

You can manufacture a new one, and call it a pistol, and its legal. 

It goes on, and on, with the restricting of pistols with attached butt stocks. 

Silencers! I've never heard of anyone, know anyone or read about anyone who used a silencer in a crime (except movies). Criminals can get guns illegally and could most assuredly get or make a silencer if they wanted, yet they don't. Why in the hell would Joe Leftist NOT want me to have a silencer on my gun? 

A bolt action .22 rifle shoots extremely quiet and in fully capable of killing someone. If they were concerned about a gun that's too quiet yet can kill someone why aren't .22s illegal? Why aren't we required to make our .22s louder.

I don't understand.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Back in the early 1930's the rampant gun crime with sawed off shotguns and Thompson submachine guns/pistols led to the NFA which then for the first time prohibited these without a special license and tax payment, and since then it has been added to by various political groups for various reasons.

Reagan is a classic example. In the 1960's as Gov of Calif he signed legislation prohibiting loaded open carry there. Yet he is most people's "conservative" hero. Since then step by step Calif has prohibited all public carry, even unloaded.

The Utah Legislature has been fairly pro-gun with their CFP legislation. If you have a clean record also with no domestic violence convictions, you can take a 4 hour class and get a CFP license, then carry any handgun loaded on your person either openly or concealed.

If you don't have the CFP then you cannot carry concealed (legally) and you cannot carry open/chambered. You need 2 actions to fire the handgun.

The newest legislation by Salt Lake City is that long guns must be encased, not carried openly any longer.

The 4 hour class goes over all these rules. And since the rules change from time to time it is a good idea to take the class over from time to time as well.

We are lucky Hillary is not the new POTUS-elect or she like Billy Boy before her would try to institute another national assault weapons ban. However with a GOP Senate and House Of Reps it is unlike she would be able to pull it off even if she had been elected.

That's the history. History often helps with understanding.


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## CAExpat (Oct 27, 2013)

Having lived in CA, "but serves no logical and useful purpose?" was our state charter with regard to most legislative action, firearms included.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

The weapon of choice for assassinations by Mossad is a suppressed (aka silencer) .22LR with subsonic ammunition. Almost totally noiseless. In many countries you are advised to have suppressor on your firearm and there is no licensing of them. We need to do away with licensing them. My next door neighbor owns a company that manufactures them and he'd like to see them sold over the counter with no licensing too


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

There should be some fashion of gun control. They should enact a Federal law requiring criminals have scopes on their firearms. That would save a lot of lives. uh....there could be a problem with collateral damage though. nevermind

.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

Suppressors should be legal and unregulated for anyone who can legally own a firearm. I think that the audiologists lobby is out to get us on this one.....what?---SS


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

conceal carry reciprocity in every state.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> Suppressors should be legal and unregulated for anyone who can legally own a firearm. I think that the audiologists lobby is out to get us on this one.....what?---SS


Exactly my point too. Why would you want a loud gun? I have a friend in Scotland who has a tree farm. He is required by law to use a moderator when culling deer a night and encouraged to use one during the day.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

When I was in South Africa just about all the rifles that they use for cull hunts have a suppressor, and the same rifles are available to the hunter to hunt with. 

It was interesting to shoot a .270 and just hear a pop instead of a loud bang.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Fowlmouth said:


> conceal carry reciprocity in every state.


This bill is currently before the Congress.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/498


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Critter said:


> When I was in South Africa just about all the rifles that they use for cull hunts have a suppressor, and the same rifles are available to the hunter to hunt with.
> 
> It was interesting to shoot a .270 and just hear a pop instead of a loud bang.


Silencers are better for your ears, since I don't know anyone who hunts wearing ear plugs.

I doubt many would use them however, since they stick off the end of the barrel by another 6 inches or more and make the rifle unwieldy.

I would not use one on a pistol either because I don't like anything attached to my pistol slowing down my aim, not even a light or a laser sight.

So if silencers are not practical for hunting or self defense, it does not make any sense to practice with them either.

Ergo silencers are only good for one thing -- assassinations.

Logic.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Ex-con's are typically disenfranchised by their state laws such that they cannot vote nor possess a firearm. Personally I don't believe this is Constitutional but it is practical and almost everyone likes this rule of law.

The 2nd Amendment is clear cut -- no infringement. But at least since the 1930's the NFA has begun a long string of infringement resulting in Slick Willy's national assault weapons ban (which expired during the "W" presidency) and with various prohibitions in the several States. NY and Calif are probably the worst states. And in the U.S. West, Oregon, Calif, and NM do not allow reciprocity.

So now everyone has the attitude that we "need" laws for firearms and therefore it is just a matter of the whims of the State legislatures and the Congress.

This all ignores the plain language of the 2nd Amendment about no infringement.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

OK Karl, but can you think of any laws that make it difficult for you personally, but serves no logical and useful purpose?


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Karl said:


> Silencers are better for your ears, since I don't know anyone who hunts wearing ear plugs.
> 
> I doubt many would use them however, since they stick off the end of the barrel by another 6 inches or more and make the rifle unwieldy.
> 
> ...


Karl does not like them, therefor no one else should. Logic.

Apparently you don't spend any time in a real gun shop (not Big 5) that sells silencers. They are very popular with those that like to be able to shoot and carry on a conversation at the same time. Also nice to let your kids shoot without the need for hearing protection. Big ear muffs don't interfere with proper cheek weld, and you can communicate with them without yelling. Makes for a more pleasant outing for all involved.

If you actually had experience with anything, your comments would be relevant and valued.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

Loke said:


> Karl does not like them, therefor no one else should. Logic.
> 
> Apparently you don't spend any time in a real gun shop (not Big 5) that sells silencers. They are very popular with those that like to be able to shoot and carry on a conversation at the same time. Also nice to let your kids shoot without the need for hearing protection. Big ear muffs don't interfere with proper cheek weld, and you can communicate with them without yelling. Makes for a more pleasant outing for all involved.
> 
> If you actually had experience with anything, your comments would be relevant and valued.


I have no use for a silencer. Correct.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

longbow said:


> OK Karl, but can you think of any laws that make it difficult for you personally, but serves no logical and useful purpose?


Not really -- not in Utah.

Like I said, the Legislature here recently decided against legal open carry for slung rifles. They want rifles cased. I can live with that.

California on the other hand is a sh!t hole full of gun control.

But Utah is great !!

Any my Utah CFP LTC is valid in Wash State, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and Nevada as well. Just not in Oregon, California, or New Mexico. But I have no reason to go to Oregon, California, or New Mexico.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

If It wasn't such a PITA to get and have one, I'd hunt with a suppressor for sure. I'd also use a suppressed 17hmr to shoot pot guts. A friend has a suppressed 50AK. I have used it to make several 500-700 yard shots on targets. I would love to shoot an elk with that set up. It's very quiet for its performance. Surplus BMG bullets make for some reasonable priced plinking too.------SS


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

Karl said:


> Silencers are better for your ears, since I don't know anyone who hunts wearing ear plugs.
> 
> I doubt many would use them however, since they stick off the end of the barrel by another 6 inches or more and make the rifle unwieldy.
> 
> ...


Oh baloney ~


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## Idratherbehunting (Jul 17, 2013)

I was wishing I had a suppressor this weekend when out shooting. I wouldn't mind the slightly longer barrel length. I also did not assassinate anyone, although I did kill a jack rabbit or two.


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## gdog (Sep 13, 2007)

+10 on suppressors....

My bunny thumping setup 8) Works well on a .17 HMR too.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Karl said:


> Silencers are better for your ears, since I don't know anyone who hunts wearing ear plugs.post hoc ergo propter hoc, argumentum ad ignoratium
> 
> I doubt many would use them however, since they stick off the end of the barrel by another 6 inches or more and make the rifle unwieldy. petitio principii, false attribution, cherry picking, secundum quid, argument from personal incredulity
> 
> ...


Veni. Vidi. Vici.


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

johnnycake said:


> Veni. Vidi. Vici.


Not bad Latin.

Not good logic though.

Mostly rhetorical.

Ergo sophistry.

Q.E.D.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

longbow said:


> Exactly my point too. Why would you want a loud gun? I have a friend in Scotland who has a tree farm. He is required by law to use a moderator when culling deer a night and encouraged to use one during the day.


I think that right there is why they are prohibited for hunting in most states.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

johnnycake said:


> Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.


Listen smarty pants Johnnycake. Would you quit making us older guys run to Google so much? At 55yrs I don't have enough time left on this earth to be looking stuff up all the time. :mrgreen:

Good work by the way. I'm impressed.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

I try to resist but every now and then I fail. But, fear not, for I am with thee and before us, and the Almighty Google, no troll shall pass unscathed


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*burden of proof*



johnnycake said:


> Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.


I went to parochial school. Had Latin every day, 8 years and I had to look that up.

Many of the 2nd Amendment posts here are like my recipes; kinda hard to swallow.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I wish I'd had a silencer, 'scuse me, a suppressor, on my sheep hunt.

If you miss a sheep at 237 yards the noise scares the **** out of them and they run off.

.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I cannot think of any Utah laws that have had a negative impact on me personally....yet.

I want a suppressor but don't want to pay the exorbitant amount they charge, then wait 6 months to get it + pay the gov't for a tax that shouldn't exist any more than the normal sales tax. 

I have to believe that the laws making it difficult to own one are also what are making it expensive to own one. I also feel the gov't saw a way to milk more money from people without providing any additional service.

Same as above for full auto weaponry, except I can better understand the reasoning for the laws concerning the restricted purchase of those.

The 16" barrel length is a really stupid law/rule that has absolutely no real effect on having one. I can't have a short barreled rifle but I can have an AR pistol...only difference being that one is stamped pistol on the side, the other is shouldered when firing. Dumb, but not having a negative impact on me.


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

"Come on boys, we don't want any trouble in here. Not in any language." 

Name that flick.--------SS


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

I found out it's illegal to shoot starlings out of my bedroom window in Evanston.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Springville Shooter said:


> "Come on boys, we don't want any trouble in here. Not in any language."
> 
> Name that flick.--------SS


Tombstone. "apparently mr ringo is a learned man, now I REALLY hate him"

-DallanC


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

wyogoob said:


> I found out it's illegal to shoot starlings out of my bedroom window in Evanston.
> 
> .


Don't yer coppers have somethin' better to do than nab you for making tasty treats in an urban subsistence lifestyle? Like, pulling over all those Utards going 5 over the speed limit?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

johnnycake said:


> Don't yer coppers have somethin' better to do than nab you for making tasty treats in an urban subsistence lifestyle? Like, pulling over all those Utards going 5 over the speed limit?


Yeah, er...no...uh you have two questions there.

It's the neighbors. If I miss a starling I hit the side of their house or the windshield on their pickup, maybe their kid. Screw em. They need a copy of the 2nd Amendment.

Dumb gun laws anyway.

.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Start setting out seed, get them trained to come in to food. Then stick down some of those sticky rat trap papers 


-DallanC


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## Springville Shooter (Oct 15, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> Yeah, er...no...uh you have two questions there.
> 
> It's the neighbors. If I miss a starling I hit the side of their house or the windshield on their pickup, maybe their kid. Screw em. They need a copy of the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> ...


The Second Amendment only provides for 'keeping' and 'bearing'. It says nothing about shooting. -----SS


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> I found out it's illegal to shoot starlings out of my bedroom window in Evanston.
> 
> .


You are not suppose to use that .256 Newton.


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## Idratherbehunting (Jul 17, 2013)

In Roy, there is an ordinance that there is no firing of any weapon that shoots a projectile. When I lived there, my neighbor got a written warning because another neighbor complained about his son shooting an air soft gun. That seems a little excessive. 

As far as gun laws go, from a federal perspective, the suppressor restrictions is bothersome to me, as I've never heard a valid reason for it.

I think a lot of the NFA transfer laws surrounding inheritance are also unnecessary, but as of right now, they don't affect me.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

Springville Shooter said:


> The Second Amendment only provides for 'keeping' and 'bearing'. It says nothing about shooting. -----SS


Bingo

Thanks, I'm tagging this post. 8)

.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

Trooper said:


> I think that right there is why they are prohibited for hunting in most states.


Https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2016/02/asa_edu_map_021216.jpg

Most states allow their use for hunting. Some just for varmints, some for big game as well.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

If you ever hunt with someone that is using a suppressor you will wonder why everyone can't hunt with one.

























































































WhooHooo Top Of The Page Again


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Critter said:


> You are not suppose to use that .256 Newton.


HA! See Goob, if you would have put a moderator on your Newton you wouldn't have got caught. Oh wait...never mind.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

longbow said:


> HA! See Goob, if you would have put a moderator on your Newton you wouldn't have got caught. Oh wait...never mind.


I wonder if moderators are legal in Wyoming?

&^%^*#@&^[email protected]! Hang on, there's deer in my bucket of sunflower seeds again ................................................................................................................................................

and there's room in my freezer.

I'll be back.


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## Loke (Sep 7, 2007)

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2016/02/asa_edu_map_021216.jpg
I think so.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Now all y'all know why I put Karl on ignore months ago. ......................................


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

By the way my neighbor makes suppressors that extend beyond the end of the barrel by less than an inch. I've shot his AR with one on multiple occasions


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

wyogoob said:


> Springville Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > The Second Amendment only provides for 'keeping' and 'bearing'. It says nothing about shooting. -----SS
> ...


Bearing.....the art of hunting bears. So you can use them for bear hunting


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

johnnycake said:


> Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.


Hey mods are people allowed to use this kind of language on here....sounds pretty obscene to me....anus and probing...ouch :grin::grin::grin:


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

LostLouisianian said:


> Hey mods are people allowed to use this kind of language on here....sounds pretty obscene to me....anus and probing...ouch :grin::grin::grin:


They say you see things with which you are most familiar....LL, some stories should stay stuck in the bayou. If you start hearing banjo music, either run away or give in and grab the vaseline...

Good thing the 2nd Amendment is so clear


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## Christine (Mar 13, 2013)

quando omni flunkus moritati




That's what came to mind, sorry couldn't resist. 


I am saving up for a suppressor for my AR. ...And a thermal scope. I really dislike coyotes.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

Christine said:


> quando omni flunkus moritati
> 
> That's what came to mind, sorry couldn't resist.
> 
> I am saving up for a suppressor for my AR. ...And a thermal scope. I really dislike coyotes.


This is my neighbor and his suppressors are extremely high quality. He taught the guys at silencerco how to make them before he went into business making them himself.
https://amtacsuppressors.com/


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

wyogoob said:


> I wonder if moderators are legal in Wyoming?
> 
> &^%^*#@&^[email protected]! Hang on, there's deer in my bucket of sunflower seeds again ................................................................................................................................................
> 
> ...


I come real close to getting the deer to eat out of my hand....birdseed in a plastic drinking cup. My guess is the neighborhood sparrows have told the deer how bad of a shot I am.

Before the night was over the deer got the lid off my birdseed bucket and ate all the seed......again.

.


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> Hey mods are people allowed to use this kind of language on here....sounds pretty obscene to me....anus and probing...ouch :grin::grin::grin:


I could move the post to Recipes I guess.

.


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## Longgun (Sep 7, 2007)

LostLouisianian said:


> By the way my neighbor makes suppressors that extend beyond the end of the barrel by *less than an inch.* I've shot his AR with one on multiple occasions


Got Pics?


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

wyogoob said:


> I come real close to getting the deer to eat out of my hand....birdseed in a plastic drinking cup. My guess is the neighborhood sparrows have told the deer how bad of a shot I am.
> 
> Before the night was over the deer got the lid off my birdseed bucket and ate all the seed......again.
> 
> .


When the deer are that tame and walk up that close I would prefer to put an arrow through them. This bleeds the meat nicely and they never get very far on a broadside shot that goes through two lobes of their lungs.

It's not really hunting though. It's really just slaughtering then.

But meat is meat.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Longgun said:


> LostLouisianian said:
> 
> 
> > By the way my neighbor makes suppressors that extend beyond the end of the barrel by *less than an inch.* I've shot his AR with one on multiple occasions
> ...


Their website shows it adds 3.7" to the end of the barrel. I'm working on finding a suppressor that can be moved from one rifle to another so I don't have to buy one for every caliber...


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## Karl (Aug 14, 2016)

KineKilla said:


> Their website shows it adds 3.7" to the end of the barrel. I'm working on finding a suppressor that can be moved from one rifle to another so I don't have to buy one for every caliber...


Thanks for the link. Good to know.


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## LanceS4803 (Mar 5, 2014)

I use suppressors for hunting: 
One a TAC-65 on a Ruger 10/22, shooting subsonics, for squirrels. Excellent combination.
A Thunderbeast BA-30 goes on the Remington 500 .308 5R. I have used it for deer, but with the heavy barrel and stock, it is quite the load. Deer in a herd can hear the ballistic crack, but not the explosion of the actual round. Doesn't spook them or local farmers.
I can then transfer this same suppressor to my AR for coyotes. In fact, I used that rifle combo to take a nie 9pt whitetail just last night.

Suppressors DO have a purpose, and not just for hunting. It is just plain ole polite when on the range and you don't have to double bag your ears. Helps with recoil and the biggest reason; helps new shooters when initially learning.

As for inheritance, they flow to your decedants on a tax free Form 5. Really easy.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

KineKilla said:


> Longgun said:
> 
> 
> > LostLouisianian said:
> ...


I'll have to talk to Tony. The one he has on his 308 AR adds less than an inch. Might have been a prototype


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Longgun said:


> Oh baloney ~


LOL


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Last year on a rabbit hunt it was quite enjoyable listening to the suppressor mounted on my son's 7.62....I see nothing wrong with them. In fact....I want one.


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

.45 said:


> Last year on a rabbit hunt it was quite enjoyable listening to the suppressor mounted on my son's 7.62....I see nothing wrong with them. In fact....I want one.


I hope y'all were using 154 grain soft points on them for humane kills. Anything less than 154 grain out of a 7.62 is unethical and inhumane on rabbits


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