# Barnes TTSX at lower velocities?



## colorcountrygunner

Does anybody here have experience taking game with Barnes TTSX at ranges where the velocity has dropped down to around 2,000 fps or so? I'm curious. I know that Barnes claims that they will expand reliably all the way down to 1800 fps, but there seems to be a difference between what Barnes claims and the real world experiences people are having with them. I think a safer bet would be to plan on reliable expansion at 2200 fps and up. The 150 grain TTSX shot better out of my '06 than the other 5 different bullet types/weights I shot, and they performed beautifully on a sharp quartering away shot on my elk last year at 100 yards. That's the kind of shot that Barnes were made for!

I'm wondering how this load will do out of my little 19 inch barreled .30-06 if I had to stretch the range out to 300 yards or so. The box claims 2970 fps at the muzzle, but I'm sure that is out of a 24 inch test barrel. I'd bet I could plan on 100 or 200 less fps out of my short tube. I just have a little bit of doubt concerning the Barnes out of my rig if I had to shoot out to 300 or so. If you have ever shot game with a Barnes when the velocity dropped down to the lower 2000s or even lower than that let me hear about it!


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## CPAjeff

I shot a doe antelope once with the 168 grain TTSX out of a 300 win mag. According to my ballistic chart, the velocity was right at 1500 fps. I did not recover the bullet and the antelope dropped. I think you'd be fine!


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## colorcountrygunner

CPAjeff said:


> I shot a doe antelope once with the 168 grain TTSX out of a 300 win mag. According to my ballistic chart, the velocity was right at 1500 fps. I did not recover the bullet and the antelope dropped. I think you'd be fine!


That must have been quite the poke for a 168 to slow down to 1500 fps out of a .300 win mag! Where was the shot placed?


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## CPAjeff

colorcountrygunner said:


> That must have been quite the poke for a 168 to slow down to 1500 fps out of a .300 win mag! Where was the shot placed?


Yep, it was a little ways - I've gotten smarter since my younger days! ;-) The shot was high shoulder.


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## Springville Shooter

My kiddo slammed a 129 LRX into a big bull at around 300 yards. MV of her load is 2950 so I'm guessing impact velocity was around 2250fps. The bullet was recovered from the hide on the off-side shoulder. The bullet mushroomed beautifully and made a great wound channel. The big bull staggered around for a few seconds and fell over dead. 

I personally think the LRX's open better than the standards TSX's due to their shape. If you are worried about a bullet opening way up then I would choose another bullet. I use solid copper bullets in applications where straight line guaranteed penetration is paramount. 

If you put a hole in the important organs expansion, energy, performance, weight retention, etc all become somewhat moot. With many calibers, I'd rather risk lack of expansion versus premature expansion and lack of penetration.-------SS


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## Huge29

In general I have heard a few stories about Barnes not expanding correctly. I love them and they are my go to. I have a coworker whose husband just quit working for Barnes in recent months. He was in the ballistics lab, so shot tens of thousands of rounds. I think he said they test 1 out of every 500?? that comes out of there, which is a lot. He swears by them and has seen first hand that they are top notch. He indicated that they do test a few different factors, but clearly as stated before, lab test vs mtn test certainly can be different, they do their best to simulate field conditions. 
About the non expansion he indicated that almost never happens. The only way to know would be to examine the actual wound channel. He said he has heard taht before and then looked at the animal himself and sure enough teh exit wound is that not big, but upon following the channel in (mind you the animal had a very quick and humane passing) that it was clear that the bullet had expanded correctly, but for some reason the hole just was not that big, very possibly the skin on the back side becomes somewhat elastic as the bullet is now at a much much lower velocity, btu still enough to penetrate back out and simply expands such that it looks like a smaller hole. Just one guy's opinion and experience but I found it to be helpful. 
Bottom line is that it certainly may not fully expand at such a lower velocity, but you still have a bullet with superior weight retention that shoots very well in my experience. Sounds like the best thing may be to get a chrono and find out more accurately what velocity you are achieving and from there you can have a better idea as to what you can expect. best of luck! 
Just curious, how did you get a 19" barrel? Youth model??


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## 7mm Reloaded

I've loaded 130 gr. TSX for my 300 blkout at about 2000 fps. I'm thinking the copper bullet will penetrate better if I use it for my truck 3030 type gun. They are a good looking bullet, sure didn't save any money though $$$!


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## Airborne

I have thought about testing some reduced load 30-06 velocity's using 150gr Barnes TSX to see how slow I can run them and still get them to expand. I have a pound of SR-4759 sitting around which is a good reduced velocity powder...always thought of loading up a 1600 fps round and shooting it into wet phone books to see what they would do. Maybe if I get board this summer I will get around to it.


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## 7mm Reloaded

Line up about 4 or 5 milk jugs and shoot through them all .The bullets come out in perfect form. Of course this is a one shot method.


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## colorcountrygunner

Huge29 said:


> Just curious, how did you get a 19" barrel? Youth model??


I just measured it and it is actually not 19 inches, but 20 inches. This gun is a sporterized mauser I inherited from my grandpa and he bought it second hand from the guy that built it. I guess he figured he wanted it to be a handy, little forest carbine or brush gun. I really would like to chrono it like you said. If I had to guess I would think that those 150 TTSX's are leaving the barrel between 2800 and 2850. This should keep me over 2200 fps all the way out to 300 yards which is as far as I shoot anyway. I'm pretty sure I am worrying about nothing. But what else would us hunting nuts do all off season if we didn't obsess over our gear?


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## colorcountrygunner

Airborne said:


> I have thought about testing some reduced load 30-06 velocity's using 150gr Barnes TSX to see how slow I can run them and still get them to expand. I have a pound of SR-4759 sitting around which is a good reduced velocity powder...always thought of loading up a 1600 fps round and shooting it into wet phone books to see what they would do. Maybe if I get board this summer I will get around to it.


If you get around to doing this I would love to see your results!


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## Bo0YaA

My daughter uses the 130gr TTSX out of her 20" .308 with a MV of 3000 FPS. Shes taken a deer at 356 yards (2225 fps) and we had a complete pass through, awesome wound channel and DRT. She hit her cow elk at 408 yards (2130 fps) we had complete pass through with bullet diameter entrance and only slightly larger exit. Wound channel was just ok but not great it took a follow up shot. 

Depending on what you are hunting, you may want to consider the 130gr TTSX and get that extra speed behind it. Its my belief based on what Ive seen that these bullets need to be over 2200 fps to be most effective, unless you can guarantee bone impacts. Below 2200 fps they pencil through soft tissue with little expansion if any.


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## 35whelen

i have been considering trying out 160 gr ttsx in my .338 federal which only has a 16 1/2" barrel. not sure what velocity i would get out of that barrel length with that bullet weight.


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## derekp1999

Springville Shooter said:


> ... premature expansion and lack of penetration.


Wait, we're still talking about bullets right? Please tell me we're not talking about my college years...


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## Huge29

35whelen said:


> i have been considering trying out 160 gr ttsx in my .338 federal which only has a 16 1/2" barrel. not sure what velocity i would get out of that barrel length with that bullet weight.


Is this a truck mounted rifle?


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## Bo0YaA

35whelen said:


> i have been considering trying out 160 gr ttsx in my .338 federal which only has a 16 1/2" barrel. not sure what velocity i would get out of that barrel length with that bullet weight.


 I'm currently working on loads for my 338 Fed and the 160gr. Max Ive gotten so far out of my 24" is about 2800 fps, but I haven't really pushed them hard yet. I'm expecting on the high end to be up around 3k maybe 3100. It would be cool if that's where the upper node was as well, but usually not that lucky lol


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## 7mm Reloaded

Went out yesterday and tested TSX 130 grain in 300blkout. with 16 inch barrel at 2100 at muzzle and at 50 yards recovered one and it fully mushroomed. very impressed with these.:!:


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## 35whelen

Huge, it's a ruger frontier rifle. Compact little thing


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## Springville Shooter

derekp1999 said:


> Wait, we're still talking about bullets right? Please tell me we're not talking about my college years...


Yes, its true Derek.....while you once were a 'Ballistic Tip', you might now be 'Fail Safe' but you will likely someday become a 'Pointed Soft Point'. Simple biology......ballistically speaking.------SS


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## 35whelen

booyaa, what powder are you using? I have been using ramtac for 180 gr accubonds and 200 gr speers. no idea on velocity though


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## gwailow

Barnes bullets will expand just fine at lower velocities. Many of them are required to pass function tests at velocities as low as 1600 fps. Barnes performs high/low function tests multiple times all day everyday and if the bullets don't meet double diameter expansion and acceptable weight retention, the product is scrapped. Hence the reason you never see Barnes "seconds" anywhere. If you have a question in particular about a certain function window, call the Consumer Service guys and they can often times provide you with the high and low velocities that the bullet was designed to function in. Yes, Barnes will have small exit wounds, the idea behind that is the bullet should dump all of it's energy before it exits, hence the smaller exit wound. What good is extra energy after it's left the animal?


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## Springville Shooter

gwailow said:


> What good is extra energy after it's left the animal?


My guess based on observation is that Barnes and other mono bullets carry far more energy out the other side of animals and into the great beyond than do jacketed lead bullets.

Monolithic bullets make small exit wounds because of their design. They are meant to expand in a controlled fashion while retaining weight for maximum penetration. A side benefit is that they often penetrate in a relatively straight line. So, if the shooter puts the bullet in the right place it is sure to penetrate adequately and expand enough to make a nice clean kill.

I personally don't like how monos perform at low velocities regardless of what a tech or an ad will say. I personally wouldn't use monolithic bullets in any medium or slow velocity cartridges. These bullets shine when the RPM's are high. The faster they go, the better they work.....ie my 25-06 Ackley at 3500 fps.....perfect application.------SS


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## Bo0YaA

35whelen said:


> booyaa, what powder are you using? I have been using ramtac for 180 gr accubonds and 200 gr speers. no idea on velocity though


Sorry for the late response, we have tried so IMR-4198 and we are thinking it was a little to fast in the 24" tube. Couldn't get groups under 1.5". We have loaded some 3031 and 4064 to try next. Also gonna give RL15 and Varget a try if the other two don't work.


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## colorcountrygunner

Springville Shooter said:


> My guess based on observation is that Barnes and other mono bullets carry far more energy out the other side of animals and into the great beyond than do jacketed lead bullets.
> 
> Monolithic bullets make small exit wounds because of their design. They are meant to expand in a controlled fashion while retaining weight for maximum penetration. A side benefit is that they often penetrate in a relatively straight line. So, if the shooter puts the bullet in the right place it is sure to penetrate adequately and expand enough to make a nice clean kill.
> 
> I personally don't like how monos perform at low velocities regardless of what a tech or an ad will say. I personally wouldn't use monolithic bullets in any medium or slow velocity cartridges. These bullets shine when the RPM's are high. The faster they go, the better they work.....ie my 25-06 Ackley at 3500 fps.....perfect application.------SS


 SS, what is your take on the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip bullet? It has a solid rear section and a bonded lead core in the front section behind a polymer tip. Weight retention is generally around 90% from what I have heard. They don't quite penetrate as deep as a Barnes, but penetration is still outstanding and they open up more readily for a better energy dump at a wider range of velocities. They also have a high BC and retain energy well. If they shoot accurately out of your particular rifle they should by all means be the ultimate hunting bullet. I REALLY wanted the 165s to work out of my .30-06, but they didn't group for me (like at all.) I'm hoping the 130s will shoot out of my .270 Win.


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## Springville Shooter

I think that this type of premium constructed bullet represents the best bet for most applications in big game hunting. My advice is to find which premium offering shoots best in your gun and best fulfills your personal preferences. I would put the Trophy Bonded in the same boat as the Partition, Scirocco, A-Frame, Accubond, Interbond, Fail-Safe, and several other controlled expansion offerings. In most standard-velocity cartridges, I think this class of bullet seems to perform a bit better than the monolithic offerings such as the Triple Shock, E-Tip, or GMX type bullets. 

In other words, if these work good in your 30-06, they would be a great bullet to maximize the killing ability of that caliber. Thankfully, we as shooters enjoy a plethora of great choices in projectiles so all is not lost if one particular offering doesn't jive with your rifle.---SS


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