# Duck dog



## DuckDom (Nov 9, 2014)

Anyone know of a good place or know somebody who is selling a good lab pup? I'm looking for a purebred with some waterfowl genes in it's blood.


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## Greenhead_Slayer (Oct 16, 2007)

What's your budget?


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

I have a litter due 3-12-15 they are grand pups of NFC FC AFC Maxx's Suprise on the top side. Pups will be a steal at $500.00

Let me know if you're interested

Sire and dam have all health certs/ EIC clear CNM clear hips, eyes and elbows normal


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

You will get what you pay for. Beware of backyard breeders. Just because a dog is papered doesn't mean it will be a good hunting dog.

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/

Above is a site, where you can contact breeders and also read reviews.

Also, why a lab?

There are so many breeds that can fit your needs.

I think Labs can be great duck hunting dogs, but I have seen a lot that do not have the drive or will to hunt (goes back to breeders and genes).

I do think the Chessie's make the best duck dogs. They can have flaws outside of hunting (Notoriously Stubborn), but I would say their retrieving drive is unmatched.

I have seen Springers, GWP's, Tollers, and GSP's do great in duck hunting too.

If you are set on a lab, I would make sure the parents have everything that you are looking for. There are many quality breeders and many backyard breeders that will tell you their dog is this and their dog is that, but it will be up to you to make that distinction.

Good Luck


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

Labs2 said:


> I have a litter due 3-12-15 they are grand pups of NFC FC AFC Maxx's Suprise on the top side. Pups will be a steal at $500.00
> 
> Let me know if you're interested
> 
> Sire and dam have all health certs/ EIC clear CNM clear hips, eyes and elbows normal


 Blacks, Yellows or Chocolates? Any idea?


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

LMAO
I here this same thing over and over again!
Everybody compares to the Labrador just like all car makers compare to the Honda Accord!!!! You want to know why they do this? Because a **** Labrador CANNOT be beat period!!!

Think about this one-
How many dogs have you seen that are seeing eye dogs that are not Labradors?
Look at the police drug dogs- Mostly Labradors
Look at the search and rescue dogs- Again the Labrador
My thoughts are why screw around trying to re invent the wheel?

Ok here is another one-
What color are most of these outstanding Labrador's ?
BLACK
Do you want to know why???
Black is the purest of the breed!!!!
If you want a Trial dog that's a 100mph lab get a "American Labrador" taller scrapier dog
If you want a best friend that is calm good in the house and will sit with you in the blind all day long get a "English Labrador" semi-short blocky build

AMEN


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

lablover said:


> LMAO
> I here this same thing over and over again!
> Everybody compares to the Labrador just like all car makers compare to the Honda Accord!!!! You want to know why they do this? Because a **** Labrador CANNOT be beat period!!!
> 
> ...


Lab's are not bad dogs, at all. 
They are bubbly, happy go lucky, and very excitable.

From my hunting experiences, I will say there are better dog breeds out there as far as drive and will (Generally speaking, each dog is an individual).

There are dogs out there that are wired to hunt and retrieve (Labs included).
The only issue is to decide what breed is best for you and then do your research on the breeder and the parents to ensure the dog has the characteristics that you want.

We could go back and forth all day on labs vs this and that, and it won't change that the dog has to have the drive and desire to hunt.


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

Come over to the Dark side....... Drahthaar. After hunting behind one. I had to get one. Don't get me wrong Labs are great. Trying a breed that can do more than just retrive a duck.


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

Fowlmouth said:


> Blacks, Yellows or Chocolates? Any idea?


Fowlmouth they should be all blacks, dam is yellow but throws black, sire is all black lineage.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

stuckduck said:


> Come over to the Dark side....... Drahthaar. After hunting behind one. I had to get one. Don't get me wrong Labs are great. Trying a breed that can do more than just retrive a duck.


The Dark Side is quite fun.

Also, they do not shed nearly as much as labs.


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

MuscleWhiteFish-

Apparently you are not educated in the use of dogs for the blind or law enforcement animals used for finding drugs? Please visit this link educate yourself then open your mouth! LOL
https://www.guidingeyes.org/ Let us know how many German Shepherd's you see compared to the Labrador?
DuckDom- If Lab2's bitch is throwing blacks I would go knock on his door for a pup!
I will say this I have paid as much as $2,000 for a lab that just didn't work out and $50 for a lab that my wife brought home from a 4th of July parade in Hyrum that has been smartest **** animal I have ever seen! I honestly think with training I could have him go out on a retrieve and bring back specific species of duck!
Here is another tip for you- Again if you want a trail dog get the most hyper/craziest pup in the litter!
If you want a dog your kids can play with and live inside with you "Calm" and submissive get the runt  Just my 2 cents 
Also, a dog is only as smart as your willing to train it! Any lack of knowledge a dog has is because of it's trainer.


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

If anyone needs more info on my litter let me know...


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

Hey guys on a side note I'm technically challenged, anyone have good ideas on how to re-size pictures? I tried uploading pedigrees but the file was to large.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

lablover said:


> MuscleWhiteFish-
> 
> Apparently you are not educated in the use of dogs for the blind or law enforcement animals used for finding drugs? Please visit this link educate yourself then open your mouth! LOL
> https://www.guidingeyes.org/ Let us know how many German Shepherd's you see compared to the Labrador?
> ...





> How many dogs *have you seen* that are seeing eye dogs that are not Labradors? German Shepherds (In fact all of them)
> 
> Look at the police drug dogs- Mostly Labradors German Shepherds (In fact all of them I have seen)


You asked me about my experiences and then called me a liar, even though what I have seen in both categories have seen GS.

I'm sure there are labs out there that do it, but I haven't seen any.



> Also, a dog is only as smart as your willing to train it! Any lack of knowledge a dog has is because of it's trainer.


That's not true, have you ever tried to teach a Bassett Hound? Dogs are like people some are born with the ability to pick up things and learn faster than others. Some have a natural affinity towards to hunting and some do not.

Just to rile you up a little bit. 

Labs:

Have probably the best personality of any dog breed

They are easy to train (because they like to please)

The were bred to retrieve game, but some blood lines do not have the desire as they were originally bred (goes back to getting good bloodlines)

I would place their will to hunt in between strong and average.

Labs shed a lot.

Labs are a good home & hunt dog if you can find the right one.

Now, this may make you a little angry. Calm Down.

There are other dogs that the average dog is better at hunting than the average lab. (It has to do with less non-gundog breeding)

I still would say Chessie's are the best duck dog, but not the best home dog on average. They are built like a tank and can really care less about anything other than retrieving.

Let me put it like this.

A lab is like a general doctor, which can cover a wide range of things.

A Chessie is like a specialist, which only cover a certain area.

It really depends on how serious the problem is. If your duck hunting runs your life, then you better get a specialist. If your duck hunting is an aspect of your life, but there may be other things that are move valuable, then it is better to go with the general doctor.


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> You asked me about my experiences and then called me a liar, even though what I have seen in both categories have seen GS.
> 
> I'm sure there are labs out there that do it, but I haven't seen any.
> 
> ...


Please look at titled dogs by breed in retriever hunt tests or retriever field trials and then tell us what breed is a specialist???


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Labs2 said:


> Please look at titled dogs by breed in retriever hunt tests or retriever field trials and then tell us what breed is a specialist???


http://www.gspca.org/NAGDC/2014/results.html - German Shorthair

http://www.nstra.org/awards-recognition.htm German Shorthair.

Shorthair are pretty well dominant in all the field and retrieve tests. 
They are the best athletes. Freakish athletes.

Also, there really isn't a standardized system for these trials - They are pretty much everywhere, so I don't know how much credibility you can take from them.

Like I said about Chessie's, They were bred to make 100 retrieves in a day and that is what their natural instinct is. There are built to retrieve in the harshest climates. Big, Strong, & Powerful.

Labs can be just as good if not better than a Chessie, but they can also be as useless as a Yorkie in hunting.

The Average Chessie has a better retrieving drive than the average Lab (Based on my personal experience)

A quality breeder with lab's that have good genes would be an outlier, because so many people breed labs.

There are a lot of great house labs, there are a fewer that are great hunting labs.

My family has 3 labs (2 of which were papered and produced AKC litters) and none of them are worth anything hunting.

My Wirehair is the best duck dog I have ever had, but I wouldn't get a wirehair if all I did was duck hunting (I would get a Chessie).

I have seen some Chessies retrieve birds and in my mind the best. Chessies do not have the personalities of Labs, so they are not as popular. Chessies are also harder to train and bigger.

The reason why I say that the average Chessie is better than the average lab is.

If you go on KSL classifieds right now - How many of the puppies for sale are from breeders who specifically breed hunting dogs?

If you the same with Chessies you will get 2 results from the same person and he isn't a breeder.

With Chessies most of the time, you will have to go to a breeder to get them - Which will be better dogs (Always, buy from a breeder)

With Labs you can pick them up outside of walmart and usually for cheaper. (I wouldn't get a lab for less than $700 from a breeder - There is a lot that goes into getting a quality dog and you will get what you pay for)

What this means is that the average lab is average and the average chessie due to availability(almost always have to go through a breeder) is not average.


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

I asked about "retriever hunt tests and retriever field trials" so again please look this up and then tell us what breed is the "specialist"


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

http://www.theretrievernews.com/Library/Achievements/National-Archives

Here you go


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## stuckduck (Jan 31, 2008)

Little bit of a Breed snob are we? 

Labs are great! I have had one and hunted behind one for many years. I think it boils down to good breeding and getting away from the back yard breeder who thinks he has an awesome dog. 

I had more health issues on my lab because I did just that. bought it from a guy who said his lab dogs had no issues. well I got a pup and he had issues from day one. ended up putting him down a few weeks ago because of a torn up knee.. My vet said he operates on more labs than any other breed. Is that because there are more labs than other breeds??? Could be. but there are MANY other breeds out there that will do what waterfowl hunters want and more. 

Like stated do your home work on the "breed" you want you cant go wrong!!! that means you have to open the pocket book and pay for it to.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Labs2 said:


> http://www.theretrievernews.com/Library/Achievements/National-Archives
> 
> Here you go


All the dogs in these contests that I looked are from breeders, which is where I said you have to get a lab.

Chessie's are tougher to train, thus there are not great field dogs. There desire to retrieve is not as watered down as labs are.

This is a good comparison between the two. http://http://www.gundogmag.com/breeds/dog-breed-comparison-chessies-vs-labs/

If you put me out in the salt creek marsh in the dead of winter with freezing temperatures and ask which dog I want to retrieve my birds. I will go with a Chessie every time. Chessie's are made for that type of hunting. Labs can be made for that type of hunting, but once again balance of probability.


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

When you don't want to gamble with a back yard breeder and your ready to step up to the pump-
http://www.uklabs.com/gentlemans_gundogs.php

Also, Mr. MuscleWhitefish I consider the Chessie to be a MUTT compared to the Labrador!
Look at the history of the St. Johns dog then will talk again


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

Duckdom
Sorry your thread got a little side tracked. Anyhow if you want a great breeding with health certs. from a "backyard breeder" I have a litter on the way that will not only have GREAT drive to hunt/hunt test, field trial but also will be a GREAT family member. Good luck in your search for a duck dog and partner in life.
Labs2


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## lablover (Jan 27, 2014)

Hey unless ya got $4,000 to buy a dog which I do not go look at Labs2's pups ???
Like I said I've paid $2,000 for pup which was papered with all the goodies which I put down after 2 years of hell.
Then the wife brought home a $50 runt that's the most brilliant Labrador I have ever personally owned.
Again, Training Training Training I think a good trainer can take a Mutt from the pound and make him a great dog..........
Either way I honestly believe the Labrador Retriever is a gift from God to man.
You will find NO better friend 
Especially not from a chessie........... LMAO


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

Training is the key to any dog like lablover said.


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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't believe you need to spend thousands of $$$ to find a good Labrador Retriever. Some breeders will have you think you do though.;-)

As far as the "Ugly dogs" are concerned, I would only have them if I hunted more upland game. There is no way in hell I want to look at one of those ugly dogs in my duck boat all day.


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## massmanute (Apr 23, 2012)

MuscleWhitefish said:


> ... have you ever tried to teach a Bassett Hound?...


When training a bassett hound you have to keep one thing in mind. They start off kind of slow, and then taper off from there.


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

massmanute said:


> When training a bassett hound you have to keep one thing in mind. They start off kind of slow, and then taper off from there.


Lmao!!!!!!!


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## Spry Yellowdog (Sep 8, 2007)

Labs have you found a way to post your pedigree for us to see?

I still haven't seen to many silver labs doing quality retriever work.
For that matter haven't seen any lab or golden doodles working either.
Ohhhh thats right they can't run in hunt tests unless there a registered 
pure breed. :mrgreen:

Spry


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## Labs2 (Dec 15, 2013)

http://www.elitelabradorretrievers.com/the-boys/raven-son-of-nfc-prize

Here you go. Sire is Raven from Elite Labs

No silvers in this breeding nor ever from me


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## birdboy (Sep 11, 2007)

That is a nice Litter that LABS2 has. I have seen and trained with a couple of dogs in that pedigree... Roque is a very nice dog! Anyone would be lucky to have a dog with half the talent he has.

This thread is unfortunately full of opinions and Biases. Here is the deal, if you want some information of guys that maybe qualified to answer some of these issues. Look the person up on Entryexpress.net if they own and are handling dogs in hunt tests or Trials you can see what they are producing. If you don't want to do that, fine just keep in mind that you are taking expert advice from someone behind and keyboard with an opinion, Bias and purpose.

There are far more FC labs then another breed in AKC history.... there are also MUCH MORE registered Labs then any other breed. The same is true for black Vs Yellow and Chocolate. Does not mean Yellows and Chocolate are not nice or has a bad pedigree, many very nice dogs of all three colors out there, some locally.

I happen to own a BLK Dog with a Qualifying 3rd and Master Title he is a great animal! Calm in the house, pinpoint marker and handles like a Ferrari. With a little luck he will be Qualified All Age this year and possibly run in some Am's. 

On another note.... as far as K9s go. There are a few Labs around, a few more Shepards, but the Vast Majority these days are Belgium Malinios. I am a K9 handler by trade and my dog is a Chessy, I would put him against any dope dog out there. If I was to get another K9 it would be a Mal no questions asked.

Bottom line, find a dog you like that fits you (and your family) and your goals with the dog. Make sure and purchase a dog that has a minimum of OFA on hips and elbows from both parents and testing on EIC & CNM.

My .02


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

massmanute said:


> When training a bassett hound you have to keep one thing in mind. They start off kind of slow, and then taper off from there.


Also, food is very important. It seems to be their only goal in life.

Get food. Nom Nom Nom Nom

:mrgreen:


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

lablover said:


> When you don't want to gamble with a back yard breeder and your ready to step up to the pump-
> http://www.uklabs.com/gentlemans_gundogs.php
> 
> Also, Mr. MuscleWhitefish I consider the Chessie to be a MUTT compared to the Labrador!
> Look at the history of the St. Johns dog then will talk again


All dogs in one shape or another would be considered a Mutt, though.

It is all genetics and breeding a dog to have specific traits.

The foundational breed of what is now the Labrador Retriever was known as the St. John's water dog, St. John's dog, or Lesser Newfoundland. When the dogs were later brought to England, they were named after the geographic area known as "the Labrador" (they were known as Labrador Retrievers because they "retrieved" in the Labrador Sea) or simply Labrador to distinguish them from the larger Newfoundland breed, even though the breed was from the more southern Avalon Peninsula. The Labrador retriever is actually from Newfoundland;[3] exceptionally, the Newfoundland (dog) was created near the same time in Labrador. The two breeds' names and origins were mixed once moved into England and the Americas. The dog from Labrador became the large, long furred dog we see and know today, and the dog from Newfoundland became the Labrador.

This is what I found on the St. Johns. (Wikipedia can be a saint)


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

Fowlmouth said:


> I don't believe you need to spend thousands of $$$ to find a good Labrador Retriever. Some breeders will have you think you do though.;-)
> 
> As far as the "Ugly dogs" are concerned, I would only have them if I hunted more upland game. There is no way in hell I want to look at one of those ugly dogs in my duck boat all day.


Well,

First set of Shots, Dew Claws, X-rays, and Health Screenings. All play a big part in breeding gun dogs.

I would like in Lab's or any big breed prone to hip dysplasia, I would like to know before I purchase if the dog would have a higher chance of getting it.

The causes of hip dysplasia are considered heritable, but research conclusively suggests that environment also plays a role.


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## MuscleWhitefish (Jan 13, 2015)

lablover said:


> Hey unless ya got $4,000 to buy a dog which I do not go look at Labs2's pups ???
> Like I said I've paid $2,000 for pup which was papered with all the goodies which I put down after 2 years of hell.
> Then the wife brought home a $50 runt that's the most brilliant Labrador I have ever personally owned.
> Again, Training Training Training I think a good trainer can take a Mutt from the pound and make him a great dog..........
> ...


Only if the dog has the desire to hunt. If the dog does not have the desire to hunt, then there is no amount of training that you can do.

Growing up the best dog we had was a lab/springer mix which was free from to a good home. This dog was just a natural, there was no training involved.

This dog if we had trained it, would have been amazing.

We also had a GSP, and a couple Labs. That didn't have the desire to hunt.

The question is how do you know?

I would say you would have a higher probability to get a dog with a desire to hunt from someone who breeds for hunting, than someone who doesn't.

Which goes back to the Chessie discussion, there are very few chessies that are bred for non hunting purposes. There are more lab's that are bred for non-hunting purposes than Chessies.

It is all balance of probability.

I could make the same discussion points for Tollers vs Goldens.

It all goes back to balance of probability.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

I've had Chessies my entire life and will continue to use them. It's a matter of personal preference. Whoever the poster is that says labs win all the field trials and have all the titles is pretty far off. http://www.chessieinfo.net/PedPoint/pp_pedigree.php?id=Sunshine Ulrich&db=pedigree&gens=5 here's one side of my dogs pedigree. Several times this year when the conditions were tough I've had to send my Chessie because my buddies labs have either refused to go or given up. Cost wise you won't find a good quality Chessie pup for under $1200 and then will usually have to wait for a litter to come up. That being said if your not an experienced dog trainer and handler get a lab.


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Labs2 said:


> I asked about "retriever hunt tests and retriever field trials" so again please look this up and then tell us what breed is the "specialist"


250,000 registered every year of course they are going to have a better chance. Where's your lab on that list?


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## blackdog (Sep 11, 2007)

My dad can beat up your dad......


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## Utmuddguy (Aug 25, 2013)

Is your dad brown black yellow or chocolate?


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