# tresspassing help



## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

My family owns a ranch that holds quite a few deer - I am having some problem is people coming on our property and poaching deer.

Anyone have any ideas on how to help stop this?
- I have called in 3 people that have shot deer the past 2 years 
- I spray paint and post signs every year
This just doesn't seem to help at all.


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## bowhunt3r4l1f3 (Jan 12, 2011)

You've posted about this before. Did you use any of the advice given previously? Trail/Security Cameras, reporting those caught to the Sheriff and DWR?


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

yes I have contact the DWR may times - I have cameras up
just wondering if anyone else had any ideas?


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## klbzdad (Apr 3, 2012)

Hunt them. Gonna have to invest time on the ground finding them in the act, following them, and collecting info like vehicle description, individual features, and if it were my property, I'd be on horseback with a cell phone or radio to someone who has cell coverage calling them in during the act. In Utah, it is THEIR responsibility to know if they are trespassing so while you've posted the property, THEY are presumed to know they are trespassing so do work, prosecute, and send a message. Humans can definitely suck!


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## Rattler (Jul 13, 2014)

My wife's grandfather use to be a sheriff and he would get invited to all the best private properties to hunt. He would go out and hunt in is full sized Blazer that had the sheriff markings. This was back in the late 70's and early 80's. He did get some great hunting in back then and the poachers stayed away.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

The problem is it is fairly close to Heber and the local go in during the week when they know we will not be there becuase we are working.

I going to put more cameras up...


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## Christine (Mar 13, 2013)

Do you get cell coverage there? If you do, consider getting a Covert Code Black trail cam. It will text you pictures so you'd know right away when the trespassers are there.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

great idea!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Sounds like you need either to hire someone to watch the property or find a volunteer that will do it in exchange for being able to hunt the property.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

Elkaddict said:


> My family owns a ranch that holds quite a few deer - I am having some problem is people coming on our property and poaching deer.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on how to help stop this?
> - I have called in 3 people that have shot deer the past 2 years
> ...


Are they poaching, ie killing deer out of season or trespassing, ie hunting in season with a tag, but on private property?


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

I took klbzdad advice serious, hunt them. JK!


Had so many issues with the same thing over the years. Nothing short of electric fences and snipers will stop it.


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## longbow (Mar 31, 2009)

Critter said:


> Sounds like you need either to hire someone to watch the property or find a volunteer that will do it in exchange for being able to hunt the property.


I agree with Critter. If it's important that you keep trespassers off, hire a security guy to patrol while your gone. Give him a GPS, camera, a map of your property and a free tag/cash. With the short season, I can't imagine somebody in your family not being on the property everyday. He can help patrol while you guys concentrate on hunting.


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## F250 (Feb 28, 2014)

Good point Critter. I have been issued a permit to hunt on a large chunk of posted woodlands on an estate, in exchange for patrolling for trespassers. I am also working on some wildlife enhancement projects. One of the first projects was to clear some hiding places for the Wardens, so they can run their deer and turkey decoys. They caught several of the local "all stars" the first year. Things have quieted down some now !!


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## LostLouisianian (Oct 11, 2010)

I always like the sign that says "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again"


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Dahlmer said:


> Are they poaching, ie killing deer out of season or trespassing, ie hunting in season with a tag, but on private property?


From Wikipedia

Violations of hunting laws and regulations concerning wildlife management, local or international wildlife conservation schemes constitute wildlife crimes that are typically punishable.[12][13] *The following violations and offenses are considered acts of poaching:*


Hunting, killing or collecting wildlife that is listed as endangered by IUCN and protected by law such as the Endangered Species Act, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 and international treaties such as
Fishing and hunting without a license.[13][14]
Capturing wildlife outside legal hours and outside the hunting season;[12][13] usually the breeding season is declared as the closed season during which wildlife is protected by law.
Prohibited use of machine guns, poison, explosives, snare traps, nets and pitfall traps.[12]
Prohibited use of baiting with food, decoys or recorded calls in order to increase chances for shooting wildlife.[12]
Hunting from a moving vehicle or aircraft.[12]
Canned hunting is a particularly inhumane type of poaching wildlife as it often involves illegal activities such as trapping, caging or drugging animals, or cutting their feet with razor blades.[12]
Shining deer with a spotlight at night to impair its natural defenses and thus facilitate an easy kill is considered animal abuse.[15] This hunting method is illegal in Virginia, Connecticut and Tennessee.[12]
*Taking wildlife on land that is restricted, owned by or licensed to somebody else.*
The animal or plant has been tagged by a researcher.
 Also: 
From: *dictionary.reference.com/browse/**Poaching*
* poach*

1 /poʊtʃ/ Show Spelled [pohch] Show IPA 
verb (used without object) *1. **to trespass, especially on another's game preserve, in order to steal animals or to hunt.*

2. to take game or fish illegally.

3. (of land) to become broken up or slushy by being trampled.

4. (in tennis, squash, handball, etc.) to play a ball hit into the territory of one's partner that is properly the partner's ball to play.

5. Informal. to cheat in a game or contest.

verb (used with object) 6. *to trespass on (private property), especially in order to hunt or fish.*

*7. **to steal (game or fish) from another's property.*

8. to take without permission and use as one's own: to poach ideas; a staff poached from other companies.

9. to break or tear up by trampling.

10. to mix with water and reduce to a uniform consistency, as clay.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

bowgy said:


> From Wikipedia
> 
> Violations of hunting laws and regulations concerning wildlife management, local or international wildlife conservation schemes constitute wildlife crimes that are typically punishable.[12][13] *The following violations and offenses are considered acts of poaching:*
> 
> ...


Very nice definitions of poaching and I appreciate the bold lettering added for emphasis, but unless the property in question is part of a CWMU it will never be prosecuted as a poaching case in Utah. Frankly, I doubt the DWR officers will show much interest in the case because they will have higher priority pursuing cases that can be prosecuted.

I suspect they will have more luck involving the Wasatch County Sheriffs department. They may be more interested in purusing a trespassing case.

I'm not condoning the trespassing, but technically speaking under Utah law the acitivity is unlikely to be prosecuted as poaching, nor would I consider it poaching. Splitting hairs? Yeah, most likely, but that is my opinion.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Dahlmer said:


> Very nice definitions of poaching and I appreciate the bold lettering added for emphasis, but unless the property in question is part of a CWMU it will never be prosecuted as a poaching case in Utah. Frankly, I doubt the DWR officers will show much interest in the case because they will have higher priority pursuing cases that can be prosecuted.
> 
> I suspect they will have more luck involving the Wasatch County Sheriffs department. They may be more interested in purusing a trespassing case.
> 
> I'm not condoning the trespassing, but technically speaking under Utah law the acitivity is unlikely to be prosecuted as poaching, nor would I consider it poaching. Splitting hairs? Yeah, most likely, but that is my opinion.


Let's rephrase that, unless the DWR has a vested interest in a property such as a CWMU, they likely will not waste their resources on finding a culprit. Just my 2 cents though.


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## koltraynor (Jun 16, 2014)

Don't waste your time calling the DWR. Call the local sheriff. They'll be closer and more likely to cite.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I have that trespassers will be shot sign at my cabin.
My mother in law even bought it for me.


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## Nambaster (Nov 15, 2007)

I have given up on tresspassers. It seems like too much work to be chasing them around. Especially while I have kids around. Telling a guy with a gun to get off of your property just never works out for me. I have had a brown ford bronco with no plates front or back reported only to have the guy tell me to my face that I don't own the deer on the mountain. The problem is the guy knows where my cabin is and I am worried about him vandalizing it after confrontation. 

I am just friendly to everyone now and it seems to be working out. At least now I get to hear about he bucks that are taken off of my property. Years ago I just found gut piles and wondered... Now I know some decent bucks used to be in the area. One thing that kinda makes me mad is when I find empty water bottles or beer cans, but such is life. 

My way of protecting the ones that I love might be a passive approach, but if a guy knows he is breaking the law trespassing I would really hate to see what he is willing to do if he is provoked. My kids are usually with me so I would hate for them to have a hillbilly inbred confrontation in grained in their memory cause some degenerate refuses to play by the rules. If he ever parks his car I might just get the vin number but I am a little worried about getting shot.


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## Dukes_Daddy (Nov 14, 2008)

Why don't you go old school and allow people to hunt? Once upon a time everyone owned a few acres didn't try to lock everyone else out.

I don't condone but I also don't have much empathy. Guess I'm just an envious and jealous [email protected]#%*.


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## COOPERD (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah and once upon a time in the magic kingdom people didnt cut down fences, leave litter everywhere and shoot sh*t that doesnt belong to them just shoot it. If u dont have permission stay out, guess I just dont feel bad for trespassers.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Dukes_Daddy said:


> Why don't you go old school and allow people to hunt? Once upon a time everyone owned a few acres didn't try to lock everyone else out.
> 
> I don't condone but I also don't have much empathy. Guess I'm just an envious and jealous [email protected]#%*.


Really dude? I'm sure the words cheap and disrespectful could be added to that list. Go buy some land that you worked your butt off for and saved up to buy in order to have some peace and quiet, then you start to find trash and vandalism all over the place, might change your tune a bit. But I was taught a long time ago that those who can't relate to hard work will never respect the hard work of others, and that those who have nothing to lose do not care about the losses others might experience. Just my thoughts though.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

They will prosecute a poaching case in Utah I know that for a fact and the DWR will come out and pursue a poacher on our land because they come out every time I call them. 
I guess I just dont understand if its private property stay the crap out its not hard - how many acres of public land are there? 

In terms of provoking them, I could care less - I dont confront them unless I have the DWR officer with me, then we go right after them. From once I call them the officer is there within 30 min.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

how would you not consider it poaching?

*Taking wildlife on land that is restricted, owned by or licensed to somebody else.*
How is my land not restricted? If there are signs posted and fence posts painted how is my land not restricted? I would like you to tell me how it is not?


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

I have had people try to kick me off my own place. (didn't work) 
I agree with 30-06, I worked my butt off and saved my pennies to buy my place. Then I saved my pennies some more to build my cabin. Drove old trucks and 4 wheelers for years instead of big new fancy ones. Was worth every bit of it.
I have agreements with a bunch of people that they can come on mine, if I can go on yours. There is always a couple of jerks that think they can go where ever they want.
I don't own the wildlife, that does not give them the right to trespass, but I do own the the land.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Dahlmer said:


> Very nice definitions of poaching and I appreciate the bold lettering added for emphasis, but unless the property in question is part of a CWMU it will never be prosecuted as a poaching case in Utah. Frankly, I doubt the DWR officers will show much interest in the case because they will have higher priority pursuing cases that can be prosecuted.
> 
> I suspect they will have more luck involving the Wasatch County Sheriffs department. They may be more interested in purusing a trespassing case.
> 
> I'm not condoning the trespassing, but technically speaking under Utah law the acitivity is unlikely to be prosecuted as poaching, nor would I consider it poaching. Splitting hairs? Yeah, most likely, but that is my opinion.


I thought the same way you do but this thread got my curiosity up and so I googled it and that was what came up so I posted for informational purposes, nothing personal.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

I know that's not the case because the DWR does use it resources for us as they come out and pursue the people on my property and have taken people away.


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## hunting777 (May 3, 2009)

Hire Richard Simmons to watch over the Property. He'll run anyone off.


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## ram2h2o (Sep 11, 2007)

Used to have problem with trespassers coming on family place during deer season. Had place posted and signs up. Would ride in on ATV's and actually hunt our of our stands. 
Always on weekdays when they knew we were not there. Went up a few weekdays and found the ATV's parked along our private road. Cut the spark plug wires. and called the Sheriff. After that we did not have anymore problems.


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## Dahlmer (Sep 12, 2007)

bowgy said:


> I thought the same way you do but this thread got my curiosity up and so I googled it and that was what came up so I posted for informational purposes, nothing personal.


Ok, so I checked out Utah's code.

*23-20-14**.* *Definitions -- Posted property -- Hunting by permission -- Entry on private land while hunting or fishing -- Violations -- Penalty -- Prohibitions inapplicable to officers.*

(1) As used in this section:
(a) "Cultivated land" means land that is readily identifiable as:
(i) land whose soil is loosened or broken up for the raising of crops;
(ii) land used for the raising of crops; or
(iii) pasturage which is artificially irrigated.
(b) "Division" means the Division of Wildlife Resources.
(c) "Permission" means written authorization from the owner or person in charge to enter upon private land that is either cultivated or properly posted, and shall include:
(i) the signature of the owner or person in charge;
(ii) the name of the person being given permission;
(iii) the appropriate dates; and
(iv) a general description of the property.
(d) "Properly posted" means that signs prohibiting trespass or bright yellow, bright orange, or fluorescent paint are clearly displayed:
(i) at all corners, fishing streams crossing property lines, roads, gates, and rights-of-way entering the land; or
(ii) in a manner that would reasonably be expected to be seen by a person in the area.
(2) (a) While taking wildlife or engaging in wildlife related activities, a person may not:
(i) without permission, enter upon privately owned land that is cultivated or properly posted;
(ii) enter or remain on privately owned land if the person has notice to not enter or remain on the privately owned land; or
(iii) obstruct any entrance or exit to private property.
(b) A person has notice to not enter or remain on privately owned land if:
(i) the person is directed to not enter or remain on the land by:
(A) the owner of the land;
(B) the owner's employee; or
(C) a person with apparent authority to act for the owner; or
(ii) the land is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner that a reasonable person would recognize as intended to exclude intruders.
(c) The division shall provide "hunting by permission cards" to a landowner upon the landowner's request.
(d) A person may not post:
_(i) private property the person does not own or legally control; or_
_(ii) land that is open to the public as provided by Section *23-21-4*._
_(3) (a) A person convicted of violating Subsection (2)(a) may have the person's license, tag, certificate of registration, or permit, relating to the activity engaged in at the time of the violation, revoked by a hearing officer._
_(b) A hearing officer may construe any subsequent conviction which occurs within a five-year period as a flagrant violation and may prohibit the person from obtaining a new license, tag, certificate of registration, or permit for a period of up to five years._
(4) Subsection (2)(a) does not apply to peace or conservation officers in the performance of their duties.
(5) (a) The division shall provide information regarding owners' rights and sportsmen's duties:
(i) to anyone holding licenses, certificates of registration, tags, or permits to take wildlife; and
(ii) by using the public media and other sources.
(b) The restrictions in this section relating to trespassing shall be stated in all hunting and fishing proclamations issued by the Wildlife Board.
(6) A person who violates Subsection (2)(a) or (d) is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

So, I've learned something. Although, their is no fine for the activity. I suspect that would come under a separate trespassing charge. I still would not call them a poacher, but rather a trespasser personally.

Elkaddict, I would be frustrated as well. To be honest, it doesn't appear that the law has a lot of teeth in regard to this. I live in Midway and I'm curious where your family ranch is and how much acreage you have. There is more than enough public ground in that area that I don't understand why they would feel the need to go on your families property.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

.

So, I've learned something. Although, their is no fine for the activity. I suspect that would come under a separate trespassing charge. I still would not call them a poacher, but rather a trespasser personally.

Elkaddict, I would be frustrated as well. To be honest, it doesn't appear that the law has a lot of teeth in regard to this. I live in Midway and I'm curious where your family ranch is and how much acreage you have. There is more than enough public ground in that area that I don't understand why they would feel the need to go on your families property.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but poacher sounds so much worse than Trespasser

I think it would not be worth the effort to prosecute someone for trespassing. It used to be when you posted your property as was required by the DWR and let the DWR know that it was posted then they would take care of the prosecution, but now I think the landowner would have to take the trespassers to court and unless it was a chronic problem it probably wouldn't be worth the time and expense.


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## Oblivion5888 (Sep 12, 2011)

Klzbad said:*in Utah, it is THEIR responsibility to know if they are trespassing*

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is incorrect. If private property isn't marked in Utah, it's not technically private and you can't be charged for trespassing. At least that's what I've heard and been told on multiple occasions, by people who have knowledge of the law.


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## Elkaddict (Mar 24, 2009)

I think im going to have to do that... I know where they park too


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Oblivion5888 said:


> Klzbad said:*in Utah, it is THEIR responsibility to know if they are trespassing*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is incorrect. If private property isn't marked in Utah, it's not technically private and you can't be charged for trespassing. At least that's what I've heard and been told on multiple occasions, by people who have knowledge of the law.


It does need to be PROPERLY posted in order to be regarded/obeyed.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is incorrect. If private property isn't marked in Utah, it's not technically private and you can't be charged for trespassing. At least that's what I've heard and been told on multiple occasions, by people who have knowledge of the law.


I know that was the case, but I think that this was changed last January. My property law professor wasn't sure, but I vaguely remember reading the change in the statute.


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## berrysblaster (Nov 27, 2013)

Hey addict what property is it? I'd be interested cause we have the same issue with what I assume might be the same groups...


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## brendo (Sep 10, 2013)

Yes the trespass laws have been changed. It does not need to be posted it is your responsibility to know if its private or not. There was a thread on it a while back. I got told again by a sheriff and DNR officer a few weeks back while out rabbit hunting an area that has some private property near by. of course that was after they gave me a dang speeding ticket!


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## CGordon (Aug 2, 2014)

I work on a small ranch that has ALOT of bucks often feeding within 50 yards of a well traveled road in the same field that hold some very expensive horses. Do to that circumstance I am quite aggressive in making sure that someone doesn't get tempted to take a shot a nice 4x4 that they don't realize has a $30k mare standing behind it. Try as I might I have had deer shot on the property and left dead when they realize they might get away with the shot but sneaking in and hauling out the animal pose a much higher risk of being caught. I had to ask 2 people to leave just last night. I understand your concern of trespass!!!

My advice would be to allow someone you trust to hunt your property if you cant be there yourself. They will usually be there during the hunt and prior to the hunt to scout. They also can get a little protective of the deer they don't want anyone to beat them to so they will watch closer than someone just trying to keep trespassers out.

As far as poaching goes I think everyone is making this too difficult. If someone is hiking, glassing, filming, on private property they are trespassing. If they pull the trigger at an animal they have crossed the line into poaching.

Just my 2 cents on the subject. Good luck to all this season!


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## goonsquad (Sep 15, 2010)

So, how is a person or an officer to know if a privately owned piece of property is considered private and off limits, or that the owner doesn't care if the property is not posted?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Colorado has been that way for years. It is the person that is trespassing responsibility to know where they are at all the time. As to the way that the DOW or county sheriff handle it is quite simple. They just ask you for the property owners or managers name if you don't have a card with permission to be there. Then once they have the name that you give them they call the actual property owner. Most DOW officers know who owns what piece of property in their areas.


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## CGordon (Aug 2, 2014)

goonsquad;891610So said:


> Refer to Dahlmer's post about Utah code and read the whole thing. Don't rely on huge orange signs. If land has been plowed, holds or did hold crops, is irrigated or has a fence that appears to exclude intruders it is illegal to enter without permission. Consider that a field with native grass that has a ditch on one side is technically irrigated so err on the side of caution. As for the property owners who don't care, They should be easy to get permission from.


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## 30-06-hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

When in doubt, ASK, it really is that easy and idiot proof.


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## goonsquad (Sep 15, 2010)

Yeah, if the landowners are around or have a way to get a hold of them, thats true. I'm more concerned about the areas that have a three strand barbed wire fence and nothing but sage brush and junipers on their property. Is that a fence designed to keep intruders out, or is that supposed to mean an actual fence? 
Where I hunt there are areas that used to be fenced but are not part of a private lot, or there are private lots (as I have mentioned above) but its either not used or it has a few cows on it. It isnt posted no tresspass and if I'm up in the area and shoot something I'm not driving for a couple hours to see if I can find out who owns it when the county building opens up on monday. 
I'm not terribly worried about it, I stay on public lands 99% of the time, I just don't like the vagueness and the responsibility of staying legal on the individual who will have the hardest time finding out the owner and their point of contact. 
I think the way the law was written was much better and it was not vague in any way shape or form.


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## CGordon (Aug 2, 2014)

I can see the confusion on old fences and even the cattle on the property might be part of a lease on public property that you have every right to hunt. I also agree that waiting through the weekend to search records after a shot is not reasonable so I would think avoiding that situation entirely would be the easiest thing. Be proactive, the same search can be done well before the hunt starts and with that information it becomes more simple. It is either private or public and you either have permission or you don't.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

These days of GPS units and down loadable property maps available for either no cost or very little there is no excuse to be on private property and not know it.

For knowing who owns the property Hunting GPS Maps takes care of that with a chip for your GPS which also works on your home computer.


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