# How long will it last?



## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

So most of us have noticed or posted about the noticeable increase of people in our mountainous areas this summer. 

So my question is...how long will the madness last? Obviously none of us really know for sure but we can hypothesize, wish or speculate.

Here's my theory/fear...

I believe that once society returns to "normal" many people will return to their old patterns and other forms of entertainment. 

However, I also fear that a good number of people have now experienced what a joy it is to camp, fish and generally be outdoors in the mountains.

I think those of us who have made time in the forest part of ourselves for as long as we can remember, have witnessed a shift. The insanity that currently is will subside but not 100%.

Thoughts? Wishes?

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## Fowlmouth (Oct 4, 2008)

I hope outdoor life as normal will happen again, but I am skeptical at this point. Have you noticed all of the new trucks and trailers in the campgrounds this year? Holy smokes! a bunch of them. My wife and I ran down to Fish Lake this past weekend and every campground from Doctor Creek to Frying Pan was completely full. I have been going down there for 45 years and have never seen that happen. So many new trucks and trailers scattered throughout, it was unbelievable. There were tons of people kayaking, paddle boarding and swimming, yes swimming in that cold lake. 

I haven't messed with Strawberry since early June when I couldn't find a camping spot. I have been told it's madness up there still. Go in any store and try to find fishing supplies, it's difficult to find a dang hook. Our Tooele stores are wiped clean out of just about everything. I don't like this at all, but I'm afraid it may be the new normal.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

I for one don’t see the issue with more people getting outside and enjoying the outdoors. It’s for everyone to enjoy and doesn’t belong to just a few of us. Frankly I’m tired of hearing all the griping about it as if people are entitled to it while those they don’t see fit aren’t. Yes I understand how trashy some people can be etc and blah blah blah whatever else excuses people give, but instead of saying something to Or educating those people on how to actually behave and respect the outdoors they gripe. 


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## 7mm Reloaded (Aug 25, 2015)

someones angry ^


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

It is just a fad that is driven by people with a lot of time on their hands. But, the problem is is that with our increased population(continuing to grow), the influx of new and younger families/people, even when the "percent" of people spending time in the outdoors returns to "normal" levels, we will still be experiencing a high level of crowding. You can thank Gov. Herbert and the "growth" crowd of politicians for a never-to-be-reversed situation that has brought an end to the quiet, peaceful Utah we all grew up loving.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Brettski7 said:


> I for one don't see the issue with more people getting outside and enjoying the outdoors. It's for everyone to enjoy and doesn't belong to just a few of us. Frankly I'm tired of hearing all the griping about it as if people are entitled to it while those they don't see fit aren't. Yes I understand how trashy some people can be etc and blah blah blah whatever else excuses people give, but instead of saying something to Or educating those people on how to actually behave and respect the outdoors they gripe.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree that the great outdoors are for everyone to enjoy equally. I have seen many issues that have arisen because of it though. One of which you commented on yourself...trash. People that didn't grow up outdoors or were not taught how NOT to treat our public lands are now trashing them.

Maybe they don't know better or maybe they figure that it's their land too so they can trash it if they want....I don't know.

My question was just that, a question. Do you think the past days of being able to find a spot not already full by the weekend are gone forever?


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

What is called "normal" I believe has changed permanently. The future "normal" will never be like it was prior to COVID-19. I would be willing to say that it will take at least three years to bring the normalcy back into somewhat of the way it was. It will also be dependent upon the economy. That is what will be the deciding factor along with the November election.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

KineKilla said:


> I agree that the great outdoors are for everyone to enjoy equally. I have seen many issues that have arisen because of it though. One of which you commented on yourself...trash. People that didn't grow up outdoors or were not taught how NOT to treat our public lands are now trashing them.
> 
> Maybe they don't know better or maybe they figure that it's their land too so they can trash it if they want....I don't know.
> 
> My question was just that, a question. Do you think the past days of being able to find a spot not already full by the weekend are gone forever?


I wasn't directing my post at you in particular but just in general. I'm on many forums and see the griping all the time with no one actually doing anything about it.

And no I don't think they are gone. I went out this past weekend for opening weekend and the road was extremely busy with hunters but mostly campers, ATVers, bikers and runners etc and I found many spots I could have set up camp. I don't limit myself to paid campsites though as those aren't the only areas one can camp, not even if you have an RV. I understand some here RV and yes that is becoming an issue if you want actual hookup sites and all that. We have looked into renting one ourselves and some places are just booked up, but not everywhere. We just pick a different spot. There are so many places to go.

I've been to Willard, Lake Powell, and going to Yellowstone soon just these past couple of months with more trips planned. I'm not a newb to outdoors but any means but I am to this area and this kind of outdoors some. From LA so we really don't have to worry about fire statuses and all that since the humidity itself can douse a fire. So there are things I'm still learning here. I enjoy it and welcome the experience. I also think most people would not mind someone walking up and correcting them or providing some good feedback or learning as long as it's respectful.

With all that said I don't think people's true complain is that it's getting too busy or crowded out there, i think that's just their excuse. I think a lot of people's true issue is that they feel entitled more than others and just don't like more people in what they believe is their spots. It's funny I have seen this attitude and way of thinking more so out here in the West than I have where I grew up.

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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Brettski, you're missing the point. This is not about saying that people have to stay home and these are "my" outdoors. 

Many of us love the outdoors because going there has allowed us to get away from other people. Having that love and desire doesn't make one entitled. That is the most misused and overplayed word in America these days. Some factions have been able to see that if you say the word "entitled" it brings a certain reaction, so they use it for everything. I think it's stupid, personally. 

You are correct. Every single person in the world has every bit the right to go outdoors and utilize the resources exactly the same as I do. That doesn't mean I have to like it if all 7+ billion people in the world decide to do so. Just because others have the right to do something, doesn't mean I have to like it, otherwise, I'm entitled. Throw on a backpack and head into the back country. It's amazing how many people you'll see anymore. It is becoming more difficult to get away from other people. I don't like that. Call me whatever non-applicable names you want to call me because of that, it still won't make me like going outdoors and seeing it filled with people instead of nature. But, it is what it is at this point. 

To the original question: I don't think it ever goes back. Especially in Utah. we have way too many people coming in from out of state and seeing exactly how awesome this place is, so they stay. Then they sit and work as hard as they can to turn it into the same crappy place they came here to get away from. You're seeing that same way of thinking in the outdoors. "I'm going to go camping to get away from the dirty city," all the while leaving their trash and other junk behind for someone else to clean up.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

As for Utah's population you also have to look at the number of infants that are being popped out every year and figure them in 20 years down the road on who is using the outdoors.

Right now 29% of Utah's population is under 18 years old. If they decided to stay in Utah then those who want to head into the outdoors multiplies every year, then they get married or shack up and start having kids...........it adds up. So it isn't just those that are moving to the state, but life time residents that are getting out on their own.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/UT

Then you also need to blame the DWR and their youth hunter/fishermen recruitment. Once those kids leave their parents basements they become some of those that are getting out into the wilds.

I think that this year it is just that so many have extra time on their hands and were tired of being cooped up, either at home or at work. I have a nephew who was laid off of his job where he was working 6 10 hour days a week. He was laid off for 3 weeks before they came up with a plan for his workplace and he went back to work. To make up for lost time they are now working 7 10 hour days and you can bet your bottom dollar that when he gets time off if any, he is out in the hills with his family.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm going to blame Brigham Young. It hasn't been normal since he showed up.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

It will last a very long time... if there is cell service in the area, its not going to end.

RV sales are at all time high right now. Inventory stock is at an all time low. People are buying RVs and working from them all over in the state, lots of out-of-state'rs are here working now. There simply is no reason to sit at home on a couch when you can sit in an RV in some beautiful spot in the mountains, and work.

Try getting a reservation in a RV park near any national park... you cant, some are booked out now through 2021.

I think we are going to see a HUGE shift in how Americans work going forward. Big Businesses are figuring out they dont need huge hundred million $$ office buildings with all associated expenses for their employees. Employees can just work from home, and save gas and mileage on the cars.

Smart workers are keeping track of all their bills, and "Renting a room" to themselves that they can later deduct and write off bills as business expenses. I'll bet you can work something out for a RV as a business expense... or at least rent it to yourself to write off later.

When we finally come out of the Corona pandemic, its going to be a new world for sure.

** I'm going to load up my trailer and start moving around the state to areas with cell service and work remotely... soon as this heat wave ends. Its too **** hot to camp atm

-DallanC


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

middlefork said:


> I'm going to blame Brigham Young. It hasn't been normal since he showed up.


Ha! Ain't that the truth? When I talk to people (complain?) about transplants coming here I often say that my ancestors settled Utah, but we did this very same thing to the Native Americans.

And they certainly have a legitimate gripe about their "normal" being disrupted!


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

Vanilla said:


> Brettski, you're missing the point. This is not about saying that people have to stay home and these are "my" outdoors.
> 
> Many of us love the outdoors because going there has allowed us to get away from other people. Having that love and desire doesn't make one entitled. That is the most misused and overplayed word in America these days. Some factions have been able to see that if you say the word "entitled" it brings a certain reaction, so they use it for everything. I think it's stupid, personally.
> 
> ...


I'm not missing any point. I was specific in the word entitled as I stated people who believe they have the right to something more so than others, which is the attitude I have experienced a lot here in Utah and from people in the West in general from reading other forums. I did not mean someone simply not liking something so no need for you to get offended as it seems. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear before honestly.

I guess maybe the OP is specifically speaking of just shear number of people outdoors being higher and going back to what we saw before. If he is then yea idk. Maybe I went off from topic a little bit but I have seen these threads before several times and the tone or intent is usually, or shifts to, complaining because people just don't like more people in "their" favorite spots. It's just been my experience. Heck I've probably complained before.

I understand the trash and not taking care of stuff. But I also recognize that a lot of people in the "normal" also do the exact same stuff. I guess more people just adds to it. I understand the argument. I also don't like loud noise and people up all night partying. Experienced that outdoors recently. I understand.

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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

Critter said:


> As for Utah's population you also have to look at the number of infants that are being popped out every year and figure them in 20 years down the road on who is using the outdoors.
> 
> Right now 29% of Utah's population is under 18 years old. If they decided to stay in Utah then those who want to head into the outdoors multiplies every year, then they get married or shack up and start having kids...........it adds up. So it isn't just those that are moving to the state, but life time residents that are getting out on their own.
> 
> ...


Absolutely correct. I actually wonder how much this has an effect vs people moving in from out of state.

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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

DallanC said:


> It will last a very long time... if there is cell service in the area, its not going to end.
> 
> RV sales are at all time high right now. Inventory stock is at an all time low. People are buying RVs and working from them all over in the state, lots of out-of-state'rs are here working now. There simply is no reason to sit at home on a couch when you can sit in an RV in some beautiful spot in the mountains, and work.
> 
> ...


We have noticed this shift for past couple of years now with tiny homes, RVs etc, people just traveling and working on the road. We have thought about it ourselves but I'd kill my kids and be divorced a year later I think after being cooped up in an RV that much. Now we are considering building a smaller house (renting now) and then possibly doing a get away cabin somewhere.

And holy crap thank you about the smart business part. I have been working from home this whole year almost and didn't even consider that. Need to start doing some research on how to capitalize on that.

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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Yeah, with your qualification specifically that people think these outdoors belong more to them than to others, that's entitlement. I don't think that is the case in almost all cases. I think it's just a simple annoyance that places are getting crowded. 

Yellowstone is one of my favorite places on the planet. I simply love Yellowstone. I can't got there in the summers anymore due to too many people. They can have it I guess. I just don't want to deal with the crowds. I don't think it belongs to me anymore than them, I just wish they'd go do something else! :grin:


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

Vanilla said:


> Yeah, with your qualification specifically that people think these outdoors belong more to them than to others, that's entitlement. I don't think that is the case in almost all cases. I think it's just a simple annoyance that places are getting crowded.
> 
> Yellowstone is one of my favorite places on the planet. I simply love Yellowstone. I can't got there in the summers anymore due to too many people. They can have it I guess. I just don't want to deal with the crowds. I don't think it belongs to me anymore than them, I just wish they'd go do something else! :grin:


We are going to Yellowstone over Labor Day weekend for the first time. We are staying outside the west gate in Montana though in a cabin we rented. We will see all the usual landmarks and sites but may try and find some other less visited areas. Still researching some things to check out. We are really excited about it though.

I agree with others who have discussed COVID being a huge factor here. Can't stay cooped up all the time. Really not sure how long it was last though. I know we moved here to get out more and experience nature more. The climate here is perfect for it, to us at least.

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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Getting back to the original question, I think, due to covid, that the crowding in the outdoors this summer is extreme and will subside a bit as we eventually ease past the pandemic. For many folks, there simply hasn't been much to do. Movies, sports, dance, reunions, fairs, markets, concerts and a million other summertime social activities have been cancelled. But going camping was still good. As these other activities eventually come back, some of the pressure on the outdoor resources will likewise decline. 

That said, there will still be longer term trend toward more crowding over a longer time frame for all the reasons listed. Sure we can blame growth, politicians, the Mormons, the DWR, liburls, and whatnot, but it is what it is. I doubt little can change things and griping about it may be cathartic but provides little other usefulness.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Long term trend with a recent catalyst that accelerated the rate. The west is just too appealing a landscape for most people to not notice anymore. I bet when "things settle down", whenever that may be, we'll see a short term decrease and then back to the steady rise.

Per RVs, etc....give it a few years and then there will be a glut of used ones on the market. Once people realize the true overhead many will try to cut and run. Banks are probably loving all the loan interest right now on these high dollar items that depreciate in value as soon as they leave the lot. But inevitably there will be a percentage that keep them and live their new lifestyle. It's just the cycle.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

You think it’s bad now, wait until duck season


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

I'm thinking it will probably subside just a bit, but of course the long term trend will be that it always continues to climb. What do I hope for? I secretly hope that half the world's population will disappear for one reason or another while I'm still young. But that is unrealistic. So I actually hope that the increased use of our land will be well balanced and hunting and fishing opportunities remain available in the future. I REALLY hope that there will always be OTC elk tags to be had. I really hate lotteries. 

Brettski, I do partially agree that some of the complaining bothers me. I grew up in southern Illinois with 160 acres of family hardwoods to hunt. That being OUR property meant that we never saw anyone else in there and if we did and they didn't have permission we'd tell them to take a hike (elsewhere 😉 ) but I think most people that have strong opinions about it (other than the ones that are upset about a cultural shift) are worried they won't have their mountain solitude anymore or will always have to work harder to find it. I, like many others who have moved west did so because I love the mountains and the wilderness.... The lack of people. Seeing more and more people on the trails every year, despite my only being here for 4.5 years, makes me cringe because when I go out to the woods, I just don't want to see anyone else. I whole heartedly agree that public land is everyone's land and is meant to be enjoyed by everyone and the large number of people using it will only help to protect it against industry and special interest groups and states that want the public land transfer act to happen. So even though when I am out hunting or running or hiking and run into other people and I have the feeling of "get out of here and go back to society", it's only because I want to feel like I'm in the wilderness with no one else. Not that I feel like I have more right to it than someone else. Anyway, yes I kind of agree with everyone.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Hit the woods on a Tuesday... you will be relatively alone. Hit it on a Saturday, you will need to wait in a line to drive down a road. Adjust your useage to get the experience you want.

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Don't let the secrete out of the box. 

Since I retired I have learned that the days from Tuesday until Friday morning are the best times for both fishing and hunting. Forget about Friday through Monday.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

DallanC said:


> Hit the woods on a Tuesday... you will be relatively alone. Hit it on a Saturday, you will need to wait in a line to drive down a road. Adjust your useage to get the experience you want.
> 
> -DallanC


Yup, that's why I try to hit the Wasatch trails to run at 330pm during the week. It's much better at that point. And I find the trails that aren't popular. That also helps. Luckily for hunting, my family knows how important it is so it's ok if I take a few days of my vacation to hunt during the week. I took a Monday-wednesday last year to hunt mulies up big cottonwood. I didn't see anyone. It was great!


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Ohhh I forgot. Wait until space ex's starlink is up and running. That will allow remote work for wayyyy more people in lots of places that aren't currently possible. 12,000 to 40,000 satellites!!!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

One nice thing is that a lot of those growing up now want nothing to do with the outdoors. 

I watched a kid walk into a Forest Service out house/pit toilet. He didn't even have time to do any business before he was back outside and quite likely headed for the bushes.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

Critter said:


> One nice thing is that a lot of those growing up now want nothing to do with the outdoors.
> 
> I watched a kid walk into a Forest Service out house/pit toilet. He didn't even have time to do any business before he was back outside and quite likely headed for the bushes.


Hey I've done that. Some of those things are so nasty it's worth crapping behind a bush instead and wiping with leaves.

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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Critter said:


> One nice thing is that a lot of those growing up now want nothing to do with the outdoors.
> 
> I watched a kid walk into a Forest Service out house/pit toilet. He didn't even have time to do any business before he was back outside and quite likely headed for the bushes.


My concern is that even those growing up now that historically did not want to be outdoors, have gotten a taste of it during this pandemic and are now highly addicted.

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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

KineKilla said:


> Critter said:
> 
> 
> > One nice thing is that a lot of those growing up now want nothing to do with the outdoors.
> ...


Unfortunately I think that's just the way humans are wired for the most part. No one is meant to be crammed into a city of concrete sitting behind a screen clacking away at a keyboard


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

BPturkeys said:


> It is just a fad that is driven by people with a lot of time on their hands. But, the problem is is that with our increased population(continuing to grow), the influx of new and younger families/people, *even when the "percent" of people spending time in the outdoors returns to "normal" levels, we will still be experiencing a high level of crowding. You can thank Gov. Herbert and the "growth" crowd of politicians for a never-to-be-reversed situation that has brought an end to the quiet, peaceful Utah* we all grew up loving.


Bold for emphasis.



KineKilla said:


> My concern is that even those growing up now that historically did not want to be outdoors, have gotten a taste of it during this pandemic and are now highly addicted.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk


 You can count on it. As someone, somewhere in the thread noted, all the new trailers and trucks.

Things may settle down some after covid, but it will never be back to how it was before covid. Things were already on the rise. Covid will make that percentage higher - permanently. Some will go back to the city, some won't. Add that to the already upward trend of mountain crowding.

Utah's biggest problem is the secret is out, and now everyone want's a piece of it; and in the process what made it great will ultimately be destroyed due to overcrowding.

edit: anyone else notice how bad the dust is this year on skyline or any road coming off it? Fine powdery dust. It used to not be this bad. The roads (not skyline proper) used to be hard packed clay, not this year, it's all silty due to the increased vehicle traffic. My truck is covered in what can best be described as brown powdered sugar, and that hasn't happened before this year. Aside from the full camps, i call it physical evidence of the changing times.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Lone_Hunter said:


> .
> 
> edit: anyone else notice how bad the dust is this year on skyline or any road coming off it? Fine powdery dust. It used to not be this bad. The roads (not skyline proper) used to be hard packed clay, not this year, it's all silty due to the increased vehicle traffic. My truck is covered in what can best be described as brown powdered sugar, and that hasn't happened before this year. Aside from the full camps, i call it physical evidence of the changing times.


If the dust on the road isn't at least 4" - 6" deep you are not having any fun! :shock:

Long dry spells tend to make it worse. Ideally it is nice to get enough moisture in the soil without turning it to mud to settle it down. Kind of a catch 22 on dirt roads.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

Many dry, powdery roads out there this year. Have to wear your COVID mask when on your ATV, clean your truck air filter after each trip.

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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Powdery dry roads have been the norm this time of year for quite a while now. With all the side by sides out there and other ATV riders going as fast as they can from point A to point B.

Unless there is rain or snow you just have to deal with it, and then you have muck until it gets beaten back into solid form 

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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> Powdery dry roads have been the norm this time of year for quite a while now.


It's never been this bad. Maybe my memory is crap, but I don't recall kicking up, nor seeing, duster rooster tail's as I have this year in previous years.



> With all the side by sides out there and other ATV riders going as fast as they can from point A to point B.


Exactly my point. More traffic, from more people, in greater then usual numbers.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It has been going on this way for quite a while now. At least in the areas that I have been in. 

Perhaps the area that you are playing around in has had more moisture in previous years where you didn't notice it. In past years I have seen the dust on the roads 6" deep in areas.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

There is no worse dusty roads than the bookcliffs with that flour type dust. Worst dust bar none.

As for the rest, overall increase in usage, I do think it will subside slightly, but we wont return to pre-pandemic levels. People are in a mad dash out of the major cities. There is a flood of houses on the market in San Francisco and other large cities as people want out. I imagine the drop in tax income will be countered with even higher taxes which would result in even more leaving.

Our housing market is still red hot in Utah, people are flooding here. That is going to translate into more elbows to bump into in downtown SLC and on the top of Mt Timp.

We've lived through some of the greatest times in worlds history, it feels like we've peaked and its tapering off. I told my son for years enjoy various spots we liked to hit. Most of those are now closed to access, developed into tens of millions of $$$ home lots or other things. I have no idea it would all shut down so quickly. I figured he'd still be able to take his son to spots and say "Theres were me and grandpaw shot that deer one time". Nope :sad:

-DallanC


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## RandomElk16 (Sep 17, 2013)

This weekend showed me what a true madhouse it is. 

If you were in National Forest or the likes.. you may have even seen what I saw: Bulldozers cutting two tracks into big plush roads all over the place, Monday-Friday. There is a big initiative to "increase access" and it's insane.

Weird seeing Dune-type SxS with neon all over them cruising at 10k in swarms of 10.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Front page. :roll:


No putting that genie back in the bottle.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

RandomElk16 said:


> This weekend showed me what a true madhouse it is.
> 
> If you were in National Forest or the likes.. you may have even seen what I saw: Bulldozers cutting two tracks into big plush roads all over the place, Monday-Friday. There is a big initiative to "increase access" and it's insane.
> 
> Weird seeing Dune-type SxS with neon all over them cruising at 10k in swarms of 10.


Last September I was on the Monroe for the muzzle loader deer hunt and it was a mad house with all the side by sides.

We were camped about 100 yards off of the main road and watched as ATV after ATV went by headed towards Upper Box Creek Reservoir. There wasn't 50 yards between them and I am sure that they couldn't see the vehicle in front of them because of the dust.

A couple days before the hunt started we took my truck south towards Pole Canyon and came within inches of taking out a sxs that was being driven by a kid around 12 years old with his mom in the passenger seat. The kid cut a corner way too tight as I was coming into it. That sxs was close to becoming a hood ornament on my F350

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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Critter said:


> A couple days before the hunt started we took my truck south towards Pole Canyon and came within inches of taking out a sxs that was being driven by a kid around 12 years old with his mom in the passenger seat. The kid cut a corner way too tight as I was coming into it. That sxs was close to becoming a hood ornament on my F350


 That right there is why I have dash-cams on all our vehicles now, capture the other guy at fault. Back in July a semi-truck coming at us lost a tire, then the other blew. I dodged the tire, he nearly lost control when the other blew a second after he passed us. Had we been 3 seconds slower we would have been his hood ornament.

Made for an interesting video clip.

-DallanC


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The ORV craze has been happening long before this virus thing. All the trail systems were designed to bring more people to rural areas to give their money to the locals. And just like on the highways there are plenty of people who don't like to drive slow.

In fact in most locations I would guess that recreational riders out number hunters by a large margin.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

Wow!!!
You should have seen all the campers, trailers, trucks pulling sxs's 4 wheelers, jeeps, etc coming out of Cedar canyon down center street and turning left towards Vegas ALL day long today. What a joke. 3 and 4 blocks deep waiting to make the turn. 
I just came home from my mother-in-law's place at the mouth of the canyon at 8:30. Could not even get across Center street. 
If this is the"new normal".......I'm in big trouble. 
I didn't go any near the mountain this weekend. I took the last 3 days of the archery hunt off and I'll go up and play then. Hopefully most will be gone by then.....but I doubt it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

With it being the last big holiday weekend I have seen this type of stuff for a lot of years.

When I bow hunted I would avoid it like the plague. But here in Colorado I found that the best bow hunting was the last weekend of the season which is usually the last full week of September. There were a few years that I bow hunted in snow which is a great treat 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Critter said:


> With it being the last big holiday weekend I have seen this type of stuff for a lot of years.
> 
> When I bow hunted I would avoid it like the plague. But here in Colorado I found that the best bow hunting was the last weekend of the season which is usually the last full week of September. There were a few years that I bow hunted in snow which is a great treat
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


Just hunt the extended, you can hunt in the snow every year!


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Ray said:


> Just hunt the extended, you can hunt in the snow every year!


I would but Colorado doesn't have a extended archery season, however I can go out onto the eastern plains and hunt whitetails


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

2full said:


> Wow!!!
> You should have seen all the campers, trailers, trucks pulling sxs's 4 wheelers, jeeps, etc coming out of Cedar canyon down center street and turning left towards Vegas ALL day long today. What a joke. 3 and 4 blocks deep waiting to make the turn.
> I just came home from my mother-in-law's place at the mouth of the canyon at 8:30. Could not even get across Center street.
> If this is the"new normal".......I'm in big trouble.
> I didn't go any near the mountain this weekend. I took the last 3 days of the archery hunt off and I'll go up and play then. Hopefully most will be gone by then.....but I doubt it.


Yeah, this was the busiest I have ever seen the mountain. Labor day is always nuts but this was different. I hunted grouse Friday and the line of trucks heading up was never ending. Fished yesterday and there were cars everywhere off the dirt roads camping, hunting, and hammocking.

Our little town and mountain have entered a new stage. It was inevitable but came at us faster than I expected.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

2full said:


> Wow!!!
> You should have seen all the campers, trailers, trucks pulling sxs's 4 wheelers, jeeps, etc coming out of Cedar canyon down center street and turning left towards Vegas ALL day long today. What a joke. 3 and 4 blocks deep waiting to make the turn.
> I just came home from my mother-in-law's place at the mouth of the canyon at 8:30. Could not even get across Center street.
> If this is the"new normal".......I'm in big trouble.
> I didn't go any near the mountain this weekend. I took the last 3 days of the archery hunt off and I'll go up and play then. Hopefully most will be gone by then.....but I doubt it.


I will agree with you there, had to run into Cedar to Tinks to get a voltage regulator for a dump truck that quit on me on the ranch, coming back up main heading south I stopped at the light on main and center and the cars and trucks pulling trailers and utv's were backed up clear to the east elementary school with more coming behind them.

I sold my cabin at Strawberry point a week or so ago and will not miss that traffic going there. Now working on building a road and a pad for the fifth wheel on the 40 acres on Cedar Mt south of Cedar. It will be nice to get rid of neighbors and hide behind a couple of locked gates.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

The line of vehicles heading through Heber was incredible friday. We were going to leave home at 4:30 but we ended up leaving at 3:30. Traffic heading from provo was backed up from the main intersection to the light by walmart. Then, when you were finally able to turn east traffic was backed up all the way past Silver Eagle to the next light there. It was crazy.

We got to the lake and saw the "campground full" sign ... and this was a campground with 70ish spots. We talked to the hosts and they said they just moved someone from one spot to another, and if we wanted their spot we could try it. It worked out fine. 

Fishing was the slowest i've ever seen on that lake, still managed to get my limit though  I lost a +20" fish through a hole in my net where it slipped through and broke off 

Interestingly, most campers i saw looked like "new people". Not really doing anything OTHER than camping, playing games and letting the kids run free. Very few people fishing, very few riding atvs, very few hunting. Lots of young families or older single couples just hanging out in the woods.

It was still way too hot though, still over 90F at 8500ft... ran the AC and watched some movies through the heat of the day.

-DallanC


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## BPturkeys (Sep 13, 2007)

I haven't gone out of town on any of the "big" holidays for years and years and I thought it was bad then...you guys are complaining about biggest crowds ever...man, it must be bad.
Some of you are old enough to know better than go out on a weekend like Veterans Day.
No use pining over the old days...they're gone forever.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Since I have retired I have learned that the best fishing, hunting, camping times are Tuesday through Friday morning. I leave the weekends to doing stuff around the house. I don't remember the last time that I actually went out into the woods or went fishing on a major holiday.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

We never have big plans for holiday weekends but sometimes life conspires to provide your limited free time around then anyways. Avoided Sat-Sun but desperately needed Fri and Mon on the mountain. I had never run into multiple hiking groups while grouse hunting before and I saw at least 4 on Friday; one person froze like they had never seen an upland game hunter before.

Normally the Monday of a holiday weekend sees more of an exodus but I saw plenty of people lingering. Seems to me people are maxing out vacation time on outdoor trips. Good for them.

Given the chance I'll stick to M-F whenever its an option. Luckily grouse hunting fits in perfect with caregiver coverage.


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## alaska (Mar 22, 2020)

Everything will turn back to normal once there is already a vaccine


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

When did Capital Reef get so popular? Must have seen 120 parked cars in one pass today. We hadn't spent time there in winter in a while but that place use to be a relative ghost town in the winter. I know it's a holiday week but it's crazy busy.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

don't know about the reef but mirror lake hwy continues to draw a different crowd in droves. it backed off for a bit but picked up again in a big way as the xmas tree cutting got underway. trailheads are packed on weekends.


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