# Masks on Federal land



## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Executive order mandating the wearing of masks on Federal land.

?

I haven't seen the actual order, but it makes me wonder -- will we be required to wear a mask while out on National Forest land? BLM?

Lol. This is going to be fun!


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

If they think I’m gonna wear a mask outside, in the hills, on federal lands.... they can suck my.... well, you get the idea.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm sure they meant federal building land, but like the F'ing morons they are... they screwed up the language.

-DallanC


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

yikes.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Finding the language isn't as easy as I thought it would be. Here is a fact sheet released on it. Maybe we don't have the language because it isn't signed yet?

https://northernplains.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/FACT_SHEET_Biden_Climate_Actions.pdf

What is the CDC guideline for being outside and a mile away from anyone else?


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Doesn't appear to be signed yet. Whitehouse.gov transferred to the new administration today and there is only one, unrelated, executive action listed for now.

If its about CDC guidelines than I don't see it being an issue for most pursuits. I'd guess the only real place it will be lightly enforced or encouraged is at trailheads and around visitor centers.

But just in case I'm glad my ice fishing hat has a face covering built in for wind.


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

Yea I’m not doing this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I have to agree with MOOSE MEAT!!! I didn't vote "D" so the "We Willy" thing. He'll more than likely forget he did it anyway.-O,-


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm not really opposed to wearing masks in close quarters with others but so far the language does nothing but empower some to try and enforce their "understanding" of the rule when it makes no sense to do so.

And enforcement is really going to be difficult. I'll go with buildings but all federal land? Not so much.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Executive Order here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...federal-workforce-and-requiring-mask-wearing/



> Sec. 2. Immediate Action Regarding Federal Employees, Contractors, Buildings, and Lands. (a) The heads of executive departments and agencies (agencies) shall immediately take action, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law, to require compliance with CDC guidelines with respect to wearing masks, maintaining physical distance, and other public health measures by: on-duty or on-site Federal employees; on-site Federal contractors; and all persons in Federal buildings or on Federal lands.


Seems to me the emphasis is on CDC guidelines not a rigid, universal masking while on all federal lands. Not to mention subsection (d) states the agencies can issue exemptions:



> (d) Heads of agencies may make categorical or case-by-case exceptions in implementing subsection (a) of this section to the extent that doing so is necessary or required by law, and consistent with applicable law. If heads of agencies make such exceptions, they shall require appropriate alternative safeguards, such as additional physical distancing measures, additional testing, or reconfiguration of workspace, consistent with applicable law. Heads of agencies shall document all exceptions in writing.


Given all that I think its fair to say you aren't going to have to wear masks outside on federal lands unless maintaining 6 feet of physical space isn't possible. I believe the kids call this a "nothing burger".


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Vanilla said:


> What is the CDC guideline for being outside and a mile away from anyone else?


I'll reiterate my earlier question.

Definitely a nothing-burger. No reason to be all hyped up about this one.


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## johnnycake (Jul 19, 2011)

Get outta here with your fancy "facts" and "sensibility"! There's no reason in politics!


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

This is my favorite thread. I laughed so hard my mask slipped off.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

backcountry said:


> Executive Order here:
> 
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...federal-workforce-and-requiring-mask-wearing/
> 
> ...


When I go outside, I do not and WILL NOT wear a face covering! If whomever is near me doesn't like it, they can distance themselves from me. That is my space, don't intrude on my buffer zone!


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

"I'm not wearing a mask when out on Federal Lands! I'm a rebel and nobody tells ME what to do!" 

To those that have said or will say this....you had better not be seen looking like this come hunting season or you will forever be deemed a liar and hypocrite. LOL


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

KineKilla said:


> "I'm not wearing a mask when out on Federal Lands! I'm a rebel and nobody tells ME what to do!"
> 
> To those that have said or will say this....you had better not be seen looking like this come hunting season or you will forever be deemed a liar and hypocrite. LOL


Dude in the picture is definitely a snowflake.


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## KineKilla (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't even know what a snowflake is other than a drop of rain on a cold day but you are probably correct.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Doesn't that guy know that a flat brim creates better flow dynamics that prevents Covid-19 infections and blurs a turkey's vision?


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## wyogoob (Sep 7, 2007)

*Facts Don't Matter*



johnnycake said:


> Get outta here with your fancy "facts" and "sensibility"! There's no reason in politics!


Yeah, I've always said never let the facts get in the way of a good story.:smile:


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Dude in the picture is definitely a snowflake.


Isn't that just a picture of Vanilla?


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

PBH said:


> Isn't that just a picture of Vanilla?


Nope. I can tell that guy has way too much hair to be me!


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

KineKilla said:


> "I'm not wearing a mask when out on Federal Lands! I'm a rebel and nobody tells ME what to do!"
> 
> To those that have said or will say this....you had better not be seen looking like this come hunting season or you will forever be deemed a liar and hypocrite. LOL


"Utard" Bowhunters don't need a mask. Takes to long to put it on when your jumping out of the truck to get a shot.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

taxidermist said:


> "Utard" Bowhunters don't need a mask. Takes to long to put it on when your jumping out of the truck to get a shot.


Hey the ole "Utah Driveby" is a tried and proven hunting technique... just dont let the truck come to a stop.

-DallanC


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

it works so well that turkey hunters have started using it too!


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## BigT (Mar 11, 2011)

The only place I see this becoming an issue for anyone is at national parks. 

Social distancing seems pretty easy to do on federal lands. I wonder if there is a sheriff deputy, conservation officer, or BLM forest ranger willing to try and enforce this mandate on federal lands. I think it'll likely be enforced inside NPs though. I thought adding interstate travel into this as well was dumb. I don't know a trooper or any law enforcement officer out there willing to pull someone over for this. I am sure they exist, but they've got to be quite uncommon.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

BigT said:


> . I wonder if there is a sheriff deputy, conservation officer, or BLM forest ranger willing to try and enforce this mandate on federal lands.


When was the last time that anyone actually saw a enforcement officer out and about on federally controlled lands?

I play around in 3-4 states every year and haven't seen one in years.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Last year, we had snowmobiled 12 miles in to ice fish our favorite lake. Early afternoon 2 white snowmobiles came in and pulled up next to us. They were officers out checking on things, checked our fishing licenses and wished us a good day. Then rode off.

I told my 19 year old son, thats the job you need to find.

-DallanC


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Critter said:


> When was the last time that anyone actually saw a enforcement officer out and about on federally controlled lands?
> 
> I play around in 3-4 states every year and haven't seen one in years.


I have.

And sometimes those guys are just looking for anything they can to harass you. Not always, and not all of them -- but some.

I was hunting on the Grand Staircase a few years ago. We were on our way home, driving towards Henrieville. It was evening. A 4-point buck crossed the road in front of us. We pulled over, jumped out and ran up the ditch bank. The buck was standing there looking at my. I raised my gun and shot. The buck went down. When we turned around a Park Ranger truck was pulled off watching us. No big deal, right? He pulled back on the road and drove off.

We proceeded to take care of the deer, and load it into the truck. Between Henrieville and Canonville we saw the Park Ranger and the local Sheriff waiting for us. They switched on their lights, and we pulled over. The Park Ranger wanted me cited for shooting after "sundown". The Sheriff took down all my information (which I was happy to provide), and the Park Ranger's testimony and then passed it on to the DWR CO in Panguitch.

Because I knew the CO in Panguitch, I called him. He asked me a couple questions:

A. was the time the Park Ranger provided accurate? (yes)
B. were we using any artificial light to help us shoot? (no)

The CO then said: well, because the time the Park Ranger provided falls within legal shooting hours, and you weren't using any artificial light, then I don't see what the problem is.

I never did receive a citation, thanks to the Park Rangers own testimony.

My point is that some of these guys are out to prove something. This particular ranger was known in the area to be against hunting on the Monument. He watched us shoot a deer, and wanted to make an issue out of it based on his own personal ideologies.

So, when you're out driving around in the middle of nowhere on Federal land and you don't have a mask, and you run into a parky -- good luck. He just might want to make an example out of you non-mask wearing republican qanon trump supporting rioters.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

In fairness to those of you with "concerns", I could think of a couple of outdoor examples where CDC covid guidelines could come into play. 

1. Farmington Bay duck opener. 
2. Fishing the Middle Provo on any weekend. 
3. Wasatch west general deer hunt. 

There may be more. Fortunately, the first 2 are state lands and Cox will make the call on those.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

DallanC said:


> Hey the ole "Utah Driveby" is a tried and proven hunting technique... just dont let the truck come to a stop.
> 
> -DallanC


We used to call it the dump and roll...&#8230;.:mrgreen:


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

A neighbor was hunting Alberta Canada for whitetail and he and the guide spotted a shooter along the road they were on. Guide couldn't figure out how to get close enough without spooking them and my neighbor said lets do the "Utah Drive by". Guide asked WTF that was, neighbor explained it, truck slowed and he bailed out behind it and layed down.. guide circled the property according to plan, deer spooked and ran right up within range of my neighbor. 

LOL

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

It is always interesting to watch hunters bail out of a open pickup bed as the truck passes a tree or a group of trees and continues down the road with the deer watching the truck. 

I have to admit that we pulled that on a number of deer up on top of Strawberry when I was still in high school and first started bow hunting.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

Success rate is doubled if the truck has running boards 

-DallanC


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

We would just sit on the tailgate and if the spotters told us to get off we would, they also said which side to loot at.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Critter said:


> When was the last time that anyone actually saw a enforcement officer out and about on federally controlled lands?
> 
> I play around in 3-4 states every year and haven't seen one in years.


Every trip to BRBR this year I had the Fed checking me.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

Critter said:


> When was the last time that anyone actually saw a enforcement officer out and about on federally controlled lands?
> 
> I play around in 3-4 states every year and haven't seen one in years.


Wyoming, September 2020 on a pronghorn hunt. I didn't know it at the time, but the enforcement officer was glassing us for a while as we shot and quartered one and he was waiting at the truck when we returned.

He was very thorough, making me pull out every piece of meat from the coolers as well as the on that was recently shot. He checked for tenderloins and all the required cuts. He held us for about a half hour and really seemed to be digging for and trying to find an excuse to ticket us. It was very uncomfortable. Everything checked out and he went on his way, but it wasn't a pleasant experience. It felt like being guilty until proven innocent.

This was the first time I've been checked in the field in my entire life on a big game hunt. So I agree with you Critter, it is rare to see an enforcement officer in the field.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

taxidermist said:


> Every trip to BRBR this year I had the Fed checking me.


Being on a bird refuge might of had something do do with that.

I guess that I hunt in the right places where they don't like to go.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Most of the ones I've encountered have been pretty much undercover until they are right next to you.

I run into them 3 or 4 times a year in Utah. Almost every time I've been in Idaho and a couple of times in Wyoming.

Most have seemed to consider me guilty until proved innocent. But maybe that's just me.


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

And there we go. Masks required on federal park lands:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...utdoor-locations/ar-BB1dkqAk?ocid=hplocalnews

-DallanC


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

DallanC said:


> And there we go. Masks required on federal park lands:
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...utdoor-locations/ar-BB1dkqAk?ocid=hplocalnews
> 
> -DallanC


Boooooo!


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Next up: all Federal vehicles to be electric.

I can't wait to so those firefighting crews charging their trucks while out fighting fires.
And how 'bout those electric airplanes dropping retardant?

Anyone wearing two masks yet?
This is getting fun!!


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

Been wearing "two masks" since May. They just mean multiple layers. We use a 2-3 layer mask made in Utah that has a removable paper filter with N-95 like qualities that is just regulated through ASTM standards. 

Masks at NP makes sense though I have no doubt some will take it too far. But if you are chilling in a Zion shuttle masks should be required and enforced. On a Fiery Furnace your with 30 other people, wear a mask. 

Hopefully they don't require them when isolated from people on a trail but we'll see as they edit policy


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## Brettski7 (May 11, 2020)

DallanC said:


> And there we go. Masks required on federal park lands:
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...utdoor-locations/ar-BB1dkqAk?ocid=hplocalnews
> 
> -DallanC


Well this is ridiculous. I mean the buildings has been happening anyways but I'm not doing this completely unnecessary thing on trails.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

It states that clear delineation in the linked article. They are only required on "public lands" if physical distancing isn't possible. It's simple and smart.


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

D%#* liburls.

From the article.

All employees, visitors, partners and contractors must wear masks in all NPS buildings and facilities.

Masks are also mandatory outdoors *whenever physical distancing is not possible*, on narrow or busy trails, overlooks and historic homes, a press release said.

Still sounds like if you are by yourself, you can do whatever you want. Some of those trails *are* very crowded and it would seem like common sense to mask up. I've had more solitude walking down the Strip in Vegas than I have had on the Narrows trail in Zion NP. I still rate this in the nothingburger category.

As for electric cars and airplanes, if the technology is present, then why not? If more likely, they are not, then I'm sure the old reliable gas engines will still serve faithfully and nobody, even the tree huggers, are going to whine much about it.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I can see it now with the electric vehicles. All forest service trucks will include a gas or diesel generator to charge it while it is sitting.


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## PBH (Nov 7, 2007)

Catherder said:


> I've had more solitude walking down the Strip in Vegas than I have had on the Narrows trail in Zion NP.


 We hiked the East Rim trail from the top access in November. It was a beautiful day. I was a little surprised to find about a dozen other vehicles at the access. Gotta be Instagram's fault. Anyway, when we got to the East Rim point I pulled out the binos and looked down at the Angel's Landing trail.

Wow.

The line of people extended from the point of Angel's Landing all the way down the chains, and past the fork to the West Rim, and on down out of view. Seriously -- it was over a mile long of solid people just like you'd see for a ride at Disneyland! We actually commented that if you were on that trail, you should seriously have a mask on! It was nuts.

And that was in November.

This is why I do whatever I can to avoid Zion.


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## brisket (Mar 3, 2015)

PBH said:


> Anyone wearing two masks yet?
> This is getting fun!!


That was so last month. Everybody who's anybody wears at least 3 now.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)




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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

I know that the tour bus company in Bryce Canyon was trying out an electric bus a couple of years ago.


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

This just popped up on my email.
https://www.thespectrum.com/story/n...ail&utm_campaign=daily_briefing&utm_term=hero


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

bowgy said:


> This just popped up on my email.
> https://www.thespectrum.com/story/n...ail&utm_campaign=daily_briefing&utm_term=hero


So, on the surface, I would think replacing all the old clunker tour buses would be a good thing, and tour bus duty is suited for electric vehicles. However, is the modern conservative obligated to oppose them simply because they are electric?

Just wonderin'. -Ov-


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Catherder said:


> So, on the surface, I would think replacing all the old clunker tour buses would be a good thing, and tour bus duty is suited for electric vehicles. However, is the modern conservative obligated to oppose them simply because they are electric?
> 
> Just wonderin'. -Ov-


Nah- the modern day conservative is not obligated to oppose them simply because they are electric. The modern day conservative just gets tired of the modern day liberal acting like electric means no impact on the environment. When in fact the long term impacts of producing the components of the ELE could be as harmful or more so than the fossil fueled vehicle. Is the modern day liberal obligated to not consider those impacts of ELE vehicles?

Most conservatives I know are fine with it as long as the true impacts are considered. Just because we don't see the exhaust doesn't mean it didn't produce emissions....

..


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Packout said:


> Is the modern day liberal obligated to not consider those impacts of ELE vehicles?


I would hope that the modern day liberal would keep those things in mind, but in reality, too many of them seem to be as "knee-jerk" as the modern day conservatives I run into that reject electric out of hand because their political leaders disparage it.

I guess I need to rub shoulders with your circle of conservatives more. ;-)


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## bowgy (Oct 10, 2007)

Packout said:


> Nah- the modern day conservative is not obligated to oppose them simply because they are electric. The modern day conservative just gets tired of the modern day liberal acting like electric means no impact on the environment. *When in fact the long term impacts of producing the components of the ELE could be as harmful or more so than the fossil fueled vehicle.* Is the modern day liberal obligated to not consider those impacts of ELE vehicles?
> 
> Most conservatives I know are fine with it as long as the true impacts are considered. Just because we don't see the exhaust doesn't mean it didn't produce emissions....
> 
> ..


That is an important note that most don't talk about. I have been working with solar for over 25 years and I haven't heard any different information over those years that the energy produced by a solar panel will not overcome the environmental cost of the petroleum that was used to produce the solar panel over the lifetime use of that panel.


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

The simplified discourse on our energy needs sucks all around. It's just one the many reasons I'm politically homeless. The cost benefit analysis will never be a one size fits all equation.

I think the electric your buses in National Parks is smart. We should protect those places from sound and air pollution as much as possible especially as the pressure on them gets exponentially worse. But we can't hide from the fact that there is upstream pollution associated with that decision.

I doubt we'll see wildland fire vehicles go electric anytime soon though. I know I wouldn't want to spiking out with one next to one our ever more common "historic" wildfires. Not to mention the cost on those gas guzzlers is already crazy enough and electric would be significantly more.


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## Vanilla (Dec 11, 2009)

Catherder said:


> I would hope that the modern day liberal would keep those things in mind, but in reality, too many of them seem to be as "knee-jerk" as the *modern day conservatives I run into that reject electric out of hand because their political leaders disparage it. *
> 
> I guess I need to rub shoulders with your circle of conservatives more. ;-)


Is Chris Stewart a "modern-day conservative?" If so, he is very much in favor of this change over and has supported the cause to get them the funding to do it. (according to the article posted)


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## Catherder (Aug 2, 2008)

Vanilla said:


> Is Chris Stewart a "modern-day conservative?" If so, he is very much in favor of this change over and has supported the cause to get them the funding to do it. (according to the article posted)


Interesting, and I'm frankly happy to see it. Part of my problem politically right now is trying to figure out what a "modern day conservative" is at the present time, but that's probably TMI for the interweb and forum.

I enjoy the discussion though guys. 8)


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## DallanC (Jan 13, 2009)

I switched to independent 12 years ago... atm, if I made a Zen diagram, I'm more libertarian than anything... followed by republican and finally democratic values.

The big issue is on alot of things like spending and whatnot, current Republican party values != old Republican party values.

-DallanC


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## Packout (Nov 20, 2007)

Catherder said:


> Interesting, and I'm frankly happy to see it. Part of my problem politically right now is trying to figure out what a "modern day conservative" is at the present time, but that's probably TMI for the interweb and forum. I enjoy the discussion though guys. 8)


Similar here, except I'm trying to figure out what a "modern day liberal" is at the present time. I've voted for Ds before and would be willing to again. Not many Joe Manchins out there like there once was......

I do know this- my democrat friend sure isn't willing to wear a mask on undeveloped public lands. I told him he has something in common with many republicans. ha


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## backcountry (May 19, 2016)

I think most people aren't going to wear masks on undeveloped land. Heck, we mask pretty religiously but don't even on walks on the Cedar City trail system. We carry one but don't wear them. 

Luckily that's not what the order was about despite the media's hyperbole.

On the bigger theme....all political ideologies are currently morphing. That is historically common but as of right now centrist are struggling to hold the middle. Only time will tell.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Packout said:


> I do know this- my democrat friend sure isn't willing to wear a mask on undeveloped public lands. I told him he has something in common with many republicans. ha


I have a very liberal friend. One year while we were at work he found a test of sorts where it would tell you which way you lean, liberal or conservative. It was mostly on personal values and opinions. After he took it he looked at me and exclaimed, "Damm, I'm a Republican"


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## paddler (Jul 17, 2009)

Critter said:


> I have a very liberal friend. One year while we were at work he found a test of sorts where it would tell you which way you lean, liberal or conservative. It was mostly on personal values and opinions. After he took it he looked at me and exclaimed, "Damm, I'm a Republican"


That's because a "liberal Democrat" in Utah has much in common with Republicans nationwide. Although, it's hard to know what the Republican party stands for now.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> I have a very liberal friend.


An oxymoron if ever I saw one.


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