# Help! Diesel vs. Gas in an Older Truck



## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I just sold my truck to pay for some medical expenses. I need to pick up an older truck to get me by until we get back on our feet again. I've never owned a diesel and have been wondering if that's the way to go in an older model truck. What concerns should I have with a diesel versus a gas engine? What extra or different maintenance is involved with a diesel? What should I be watching out for when looking at older diesels?

Or maybe I'll just find an older gasoline engine. I'm more familiar with them... :?


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

What would the truck be used for? Unless you are going to be using it for heavy duty work I would get a smaller gas engined truck. Diesels cost more upfront, have higher maintenance costs, and they STINK.


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## nickpan (May 6, 2008)

unless you need to tow with it buy a Toyota. It will last forever and are cheap to maintain. If you need a big truck, the gassers are cheaper to maintain but the gas mileage will eat you alive. For diesels, the older Dodges, like the 12 valve and 24 valve cummins get great gas mileage and are a decent truck, the tranny and suspension isn't all that great but the motor will go forever and i have some friends that regularly get 18 to 22 mgg with them and they don't really drop when towing. I have a 01 Ford 7.3L and get about 15 around town and up to 17 on the highway and stays about 14-15 when towing. Gas mileage aside they are the best all around diesel out there in my opinion, but they do need alot of attention if you want it to last forever.


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

I love my diesel, but since I sold the Fifth wheel and traded for a tent I really don't need it. It gets better mileage than my wifes SUV (15-17mpg city, 21 highway, 13-15 towing) but the oil change costs a bit more. 

If you want to tow ANYTHING a diesel is the way to go. If you decide on a diesel .I have a 2000 7.3 L F250 I'll sell you, and I just put brand new BFG's on it. Only $10,500.00 O.B.O.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

I've gotten along fine with a 1/2 ton for the past 10 years. Commuting to work is not an issue because I live 2 miles from where I work. I tow four-wheelers quite a bit. I'd like something big enough to tow a 23ft. trailer because my dad has one that he begs me to use. 
The main thing is payment and reliability. I don't want to sink a ton of money into a vehicle right now. I do need a truck that can be a truck, though. Otherwise I'd just get an old Civic or something. 

Truemule, shoot me a pm with some details about your truck if you don't mind.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm a diesel fanatic and would never own anything but a diesel. Find a pre-1994 12 valve dodge and unless you want to buy another truck, you'll never need to buy one again. Mine has 350,000 on it, just getting broke in. I average between 25-30mpg and when I pull my horses or 32ft fifth wheel I'm between 18-20. Rust in these trucks is nonexistent. 

I have my fuel pump turned up and injectors are the only upgrade I've done, I'll out pull ANY truck, even chipped and still get better fuel mileage. The downside to a diesel is you'll chew up steer tires a little faster. Your oil changes cost about twenty bucks more, but you'll go further between them, so its about the same as gas when averaged out over a year. The trannys in most diesels suck unless they have been upgraded. The key to making them last is a transmission cooler, shift kit, and when pulling anything get it out of OD. Finding these trucks is getting tougher all the time. Guys that race are swapping the newer diesels for the 12v. They are solid, you can get a ton of HP and torque out of them and do it cheap. Do research on a truck before buying it.
Fords have had huge engine and cooling problems all through the 90s to today. Dodge and GM were trannys. Some years were better than others. Diesels are easier and cheaper to fix over gas.


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Or you could buy a truck that doesn't need an upgraded tranny, cooling kits, etc. :wink: :lol: Get a Yoda if you want quality and you don't need to pull much, oh also, they hold there value very well. If you need a good sex toy, you know something that will **** you every chance it gets, get a Chevy, just ask ol 1-eye. :mrgreen: :lol: :wink:

P.S. I actually like Chevy's.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

I guess I didn't understand, I thought he wanted a truck??? I don't think there is a toyota car in my town and I know there are no toyota tttr ttr ttrrr ttrucks, boy that was hard to say, goes together like peanut butter and spinach! Haha


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Greenhead 2 said:


> I guess I didn't understand, I thought he wanted a truck??? I don't think there is a toyota car in my town and I know there are no toyota tttr ttr ttrrr ttrucks, boy that was hard to say, goes together like peanut butter and spinach! Haha


I was with you, then you quickly see the indisputable reliability issues and then see how as jobs from the big 3 are leaving the US while Toyota brings more jobs here...it is now a whole different game. If Diesels are the only topic, then of course, different discussion.
BTW 28mpg??!! Just from turning up the pump and aftermarket injectors?? This is from the 24c Cummins?


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## jahan (Sep 7, 2007)

Greenhead 2 said:


> I guess I didn't understand, I thought he wanted a truck??? I don't think there is a toyota car in my town and I know there are no toyota tttr ttr ttrrr ttrucks, boy that was hard to say, goes together like peanut butter and spinach! Haha


No wonder you like driving Dodge's! :mrgreen: :wink: :lol:


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## flyguy7 (Sep 16, 2007)

> I average between 25-30mpg and when I pull my horses or 32ft fifth wheel I'm between 18-20. Rust in these trucks is nonexistent.


Come on now, Greenhead! There's nothing wrong with a little tall tale now and again but 30 mpg from an old 12 valve smoker...... Let me tell you about my ocean front property in Arizona......


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

Before turning up the fuel pump adding the cooler, shift kit and injectors I averaged just over 25mpg. This was stock. I can get right about 800 miles out of a 30 gallon tank of fuel.

My wife thought she would sell my truck during the cash for clunkers thing. Between what she thought she would get for the truck plus the rebates it would have brought just over 10,000. The truck didn't qualify, the government list said my truck got better fuel mileage than the allowable amount. 

I let the torque pull the truck, I keep the engine and tranny cool which improves mpg. The transmission cooler is mounted above my fuel lines, the fan cools the fuel generating more HP per gallon and that equals more mpg. Higher fuel pressure and better injector flow increases HP and less fuel used again equals more mpg

Diesel motors and fuel mileage are my job. Knowing how to run and maintain them keeps me profitable. Fuel cost is the biggest reasons for companies to fail. When your pulling 129,000lbs everyday you learn how to make diesels perform at there optimum and get the best mpg possible.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

Oh I forgot to add, this 12v does not smoke! Well it does but only for about two seconds on a cold morning. When the glow plugs heat up and that fuel first ignites I get a puff of smoke. Look up and see what guys are doing with these 12v motors. Getting over 1000hp with just small mods is pretty easy.

Back when I first started driving trucks, all the motors were mechanical, no electronics or smog crap. Those engines will beat the pants off my truck today. I can't do a lot to my new Kenworth. My KW is rated 550hp @1850lbs of torque. If I spend about 4000 bucks I can jump up to 625hp and 2050lbs of torque. Not worth four grand for that small gain to me. Now if I had the older motors and added 4000, I'd be pushing close to 1200hp and close to 3100lbs of torque. You can get way more power and mpg out of a mechanical over a electronic motor.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Greenhead 2 said:


> I let the torque pull the truck, I keep the engine and tranny cool which improves mpg. The transmission cooler is mounted above my fuel lines, the fan cools the fuel generating more HP per gallon and that equals more mpg. Higher fuel pressure and better injector flow increases HP and less fuel used again equals more mpg
> 
> Diesel motors and fuel mileage are my job. Knowing how to run and maintain them keeps me profitable. Fuel cost is the biggest reasons for companies to fail. When your pulling 129,000lbs everyday you learn how to make diesels perform at there optimum and get the best mpg possible.


WOW!!
But, what fan are you talking about?


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

There is a 12in fan on the transmission cooler.


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

GH2,
So, the fan is aftermarket along with the larger aftermarket cooler?
Why does mpg drop off with cooler temps when you credited the cooler fuel to better mpg? I honestly don't know (sincere question). Do you see lower mpg in winter vs summer like most of us do or are diesels different that way?


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

Yes its a aftermarket cooler. I have it mounted on the frame of the truck against the fuel lines. Cooler fuel generates more HP, the less fuel you use obviously increases mpg. So if colder fuel gives you better HP per gallon then you would need less fuel to acquire a highway speed. Make sense? Try buying your fuel early in the morning, you'll get more of what you are paying for.

Example, you ever notice how well your car runs right after washing it? Or in the winter its seems a bit peppy when you first get going? The reason NOS works as a power boost is because it cools the fuel. Look at how fast a car goes when you crack the bottle. Heat is a killer. Whether it engine heat, transmission or fuel. The cooler you can keep them at there optimum temps the better your HP and mpg will be.

Another thing on a diesel you've got to watch is turbo boost and temps. Keeping your EGTs down plays a huge part in performance and mpg plus the life of your engine and turbo. You can drive a diesel just like a gas motor and by design you'll have more power and slightly better mpg. If you drive a diesel like they are supposed to be driven you'll pull harder and have a huge increase in mpg.


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> GH2,
> So, the fan is aftermarket along with the larger aftermarket cooler?
> Why does mpg drop off with cooler temps when you credited the cooler fuel to better mpg? I honestly don't know (sincere question). Do you see lower mpg in winter vs summer like most of us do or are diesels different that way?


Winter helps get cooler air into the motor but it also makes your oils thicker and the car just takes more effort to keep going or coast. So it kind of a wash.


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

That's why they make different oil grades. Also I wrote at optimum tempature. Your oil and water temps still rise to operating tempature in the winter. It might be the reason your mpg drop when its colder you idle more.


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## stimmie78 (Dec 8, 2007)

Someone just traded in a 1994 f-250 at work.. 7.3L diesel. Extended cab long bed. Automatic trans. I could find out for you...


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

stimmie78 said:


> Someone just traded in a 1994 f-250 at work.. 7.3L diesel. Extended cab long bed. Automatic trans. I could find out for you...


What does something like that go for?


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## stimmie78 (Dec 8, 2007)

not sure... I poked around kbb.com and nadaguides.com and it was around $4K if I remember right.. I could check with the guys at work if you're really interested...


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

stimmie78 said:


> not sure... I poked around kbb.com and nadaguides.com and it was around $4K if I remember right.. I could check with the guys at work if you're really interested...


I'm not, just curious. I often think about a car for the commute and an older 3/4 ton diesel for just when I need it for camping/hunting, which should make economical sense in gas savings, but it does not! Even commuting 50 miles/day only saves about $75/month, which would barely pay for the insurance on an extra car, not to mention additional maintenance, registration, another car in the drive...


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## phantom (Sep 13, 2007)

GH2, what do you mean by this?



> You can drive a diesel just like a gas motor and by design you'll have more power and slightly better mpg. If you drive a diesel like they are supposed to be driven you'll pull harder and have a huge increase in mpg.


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## TAK (Sep 9, 2007)

I also get around 700 to 800 Miles per tank (Depends on how I drive it also) on my 95' 12 valve cummins but thought it was a 29 gallon tank. The One Tons have 30 gallon tanks is how I read the owner manual?
All I have ever had done was a straight pipe and the fuel pump tweeked a bit. BULLET PROOF! Ohh and a K&N filter......
I also have a 07 with a 24 valve 5.9 Cummins the best I have gotten was 21ish out of it. It does have more get out of Dodge to it, less smoke and a bit better drive, and Leather! 

The wife has a 04 Toyota Sequia(or something like that) with the V8... Its lucky to turn the I think 22's or 20's and get a wonderful 14 mph down hill! Not to mention the front axle an right ball joint came apart on it a few weeks ago... 120,000 hiway miles and the pile of chit did that! 
Ol Green 300G and still going!


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## Greenhead 2 (Sep 13, 2007)

What I mean is, most guys I have watched drive their trucks rap them up before shifting. In a diesel shift at the lowest rpm that the truck won't lug, progressive shifting. In a automatic just ease the throttle and let the torque pull the truck through the gears.

When pulling, keep the turbo boost low, the lower the boost, less fuel being burned. Keep the rpms in the sweet spot, varies truck to truck. Keep the pyrometer down. Just dropping a gear can cool it 150-200 degrees. Your engine will also run cooler and you'll get more mileage per gallon, and more life out of the whole drive train.


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## xxxxxxBirdDogger (Mar 7, 2008)

Well, I guess I'll finish this thread with a photo of the new truck. It's a 1996 Ford F250 4x4 with 160K on the 5.8 liter *gas *engine. The truck is immaculate for its age and the loan is less than 1/5 of what I owed on the truck I sold.


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