# Big Question!



## jtoby_3 (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey guys Im a native Utahn, I grew up in Draper and had little hunting experiance. Then i decided to move away to college and, i know this sounds strange, luckily i ended up in North Dakota. Since I started I have fell in love with all upland hunting and cant get enough so obviously I have been wanting a dog for quite sometime but before i make that commitment i was wondering if haveing a dog like this in utah is worth it. I realize that bird hunting in Utah is not all that good and since i am college student i dont have the money to pay to hunt on controlled farms. Is there enough public land to hunt enough game (not just pheasants) to keep both me and my dog happy?! Thanks to anyone that helps! oh and since i have you im leaning towards a brit or springer any opinions?


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## deadicated1 (Mar 17, 2008)

there is all the grouse country you could want! as far as other upland birds, public land is getting less and harder to get to, but even though its tough, it would still be worthwhile to work your dog on it. good luck, but imo, i would stay in north dakota where its good! :wink:


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## Travis R. Bullock (Jul 25, 2008)

deadicated1 said:


> i would stay in north dakota where its good! :wink:


+1 You could very well be dissapointed by the hunting in Utah in comparison with the Dakotas.


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## Packfish (Oct 30, 2007)

Bullock Outdoors said:


> deadicated1 said:
> 
> 
> > i would stay in north dakota where its good! :wink:
> ...


True story - but time spent with my dog grouse hunting whether we get into the birds or not is time very well spent.


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

While you are not going to run into pheasant numbers like you will in the Dakotas there are spots out here where the grouse numbers can be unbelievable. 

Also chukar hunting is always a challenge and most rewarding when you actually hit one. I love to hike and get into remote country and though I have not taken a ton of birds this year I have seen a lot of them. 2 weeks ago saw 4 coveys of chukar and a total of over 70 birds. There are birds in Utah you just have to do lots of research, and be willing to drive and hike, and, hike, and hike to figure out where and how to hunt them.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Absolutely you should get that dog (assuming you have room, time, and money for him). Just understand that Utah is chukar country, which can be every bit as fun as pheasant huting- its just different. Plus grouse hunting is an early season favorite and there are enough other species around for some variety. I got my first dog in school and it was the best decision I ever made.

Start studying the chukar game now. Join the Utah Chukar and Wildlife Foundation. A well spent $20.00! http://www.utahchukars.org/


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## bwhntr (Sep 12, 2007)

+1 1/8


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

What kind of dog? If you are thinking you may not like the bird hunting out here then dont get a English Pointer. From what I have seen from them, they LOVE to hunt and it would be sad to come home and have him driving you nuts and not be able to use him. Get a setter or a brittany. That way, you will have a good pet if thats all it ends up being. Just my opinion.


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## jtoby_3 (Nov 19, 2008)

Let me start off by saying thanks to all those who took there time to reply to my question, its always great to hear from people who are so close and understand! Thakns! I have made the decison to finally get the dog considering i still have great ties in both states ill be able to hunt both, but utah im sure will be a struggle to find some good places considering i havent hunted anything but jacks there yet! My next problem is on what kind of dog to get im sure you have heard this all before from a lot of people but I can use all the info I can get. For me i think the pointers and GSP will be a little to big and energetic for me (this is all according to my research online and through many books) and i really want a compainon type. I would prefer a smaller dog i can throw in the truck with me and take up to Strawberry where i spend a lot of time in the summer since we have a cabin and one to hike with me and keep inside as well. So i have been really trying to decide between a springer and a brittany, what do you guys think is better for utah, and a first time dog owner who wants to train the dog himself? Thanks again!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

I am very biased but recommend a Britt. There are big running britts and smaller running ones. I have a French Britt and she runs hard and pretty big but when we come home she relaxes on the couch. When we don't go out she takes it easy no problems.

The only down side to them is they are very pricey. But just awesome. If you don't want to go with the French Britt I think you could have a lot of fun with a close working American Britt.

Here she is last week on a chukar hunt. She had 2 points that resulted in downed birds this trip.

All 30 pounds of her


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## Nor-tah (Dec 16, 2007)

+1 on the Britt. They seem like exactly what you are looking for.


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## Trooper (Oct 18, 2007)

Tex- man I laugh every time I see pictures of your Arrow, she looks like a lap-dog gone rogue! But she appears to be a pint-sized bird-finding machine, so who can judge a book by its cover?

Anyway, without any beer to get me on a roll, I think I've narrowed the art of dog breed selection down to a single rule.

Buy the dog you think looks the best. 

All the usual breeds will hunt, so get the one you like looking at, because you are going to be doing a lot of that. Big, little, short, long, pointer, flusher, these are really pretty minor things. (Ok, think about whether YOU are a pointer or flusher man- same, same, but different). They all need walks and food and pats on the head. All hunting dogs fit in a car or on your couch. They all behave better when they get exercise. They all eat about 2 big scoops a day and poop about the same. 

If I had a second rule it would be, buy a pup only if you are certain the parents hunt. If you do that you're all set.


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

True story, buy the dog that fits your lifestyle as much as your hunting style, you are going to spend a lot more time with that dog NOT hunting than the reverse, so make sure you like it.

That being said, I have a female GSP that is the biggest **** lap dog you ever saw, in the house she is about as mellow as a ten year old sheepdog. Out in the field she tends to run within 50 yards which is how I like it, as I hunt a lot of areas that past that point the dog is as good as gone, and not likely to be of much use to me, as I don't know where it is and can't afford a beeper collar to inform me of such. :wink: 

If my biology is correct she should be having pups just about the end of DEC. as she got rather thoroughly boinked on November 1st. She hunts, the male hunts. He is also a purebred GSP by the way.
She is unusual in that she is almost totally black, which I found unusual enough to buy her and have her shipped most of the way across the country.
The male is Black and white spotted, looks just like the classic liver and white except for the color. 
Obviously I have no idea of how many pups there will be (if any) nor what the sexes will be, but if you decide you are interested in this potential litter, let me know. hehe.


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## jtoby_3 (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey guys i just wanted to say thanks again you have been an incredible help so thank you for taking your valuable time to help this dumb college kid with questions you have probably answer a thousand times before! It has all been great advice and i have taken it all in to consideration. Well over the last week and have gone out after some roosters with some buddies up here and made sure to ask them to bring there dogs to try and get a better opinion of what i want. One had a Brit one had a springer and the other a GSP. After all that the only problem was I liked them all and each of them of coarse had there own opinion on what to get. I have heard that GSP and Brits will be harder to train for someone who is a novice trainer like myself. Is this true? Thats actually one of the things I have been looking forward to but i dont want to get over my head. Any dog seems to work out here on the prairies of North Dakota but is either dog better suited for Utahs terrain? 

Artoxx I am defenatly interested if I ever figure out what dog i want please keep me posted on the status of your pups!! Thanks again to all!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

I would disagree with the GSP or Britt being harder to train. It does depend on what you are expecting though. If you want to have a completely "broke" dog there is a lot of training neccessary (a dog that will hold point through, flush, and shot).

It sounds to me that you are looking for a dog that will help you find birds and allow you to kill them as well be a companian. With a pointing dog you will need to make sure it has a lot of exposure to wild birds and the dog will pretty much train itself.

Arrow was my first hunting dog and I feel she has taught me more than I have trained her. She was holding to wing and flush at 5 months and I killed over 30 birds over her before she turned 10 months. That said every dog is different but a pointing dog is really amazing to watch in the field.

If you do go with a flusher make sure you get one that is going to fit your needs. I love Springers and almost got one myself but they (for the most part) seem to be very hyper dogs, which for me was a turn off in a small apartment.










If you do end up wanting to do some training it can be simple and very rewarding


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## Artoxx (Nov 12, 2008)

Sorry for the NOVEL!  

I was told by the guy who bred and trained my female that they are among the easiest dogs to start, as a high percentage of them will point a wing or pidgeon the very first time they are exposed to it without even knowing what it is yet, like say at 4-5 weeks of age. 
They don't necessarily hold the point for any length of time, but they will stop and assume the position.  
They are however frequently big running dogs that will want to go see what is over the horizon if they are not into birds right where they are, and the hardest part of training them seems to be getting them to stay within the range that YOU are comfortable with.
My GSP naturally hunts within about 50 yards and that is right where I want her.
She was trained professionally for over three years and her trainer told me that she is a very steady dog on point but still likes to break on the shot, sometimes.
She is whoa trained and will stop right where she is if told whoa, but she is very sensitive and doesn't respond well to yelling, swearing, etc. Which is sadly a trait of MY personal technique as I am NOT a good trainer.  
I bought her as a 3 1/2 year old hoping that since I am NOT a good trainer she would arrive trained so well that I could not screw her up too bad with my incompetence. :wink: 
Great idea, but unfortunately for me she had never seen anything but quail in her whole life.
So I was forced to introduce her to grouse and pheasant myself. Neither of which have been plentiful in my life the last two years.  
She ran right over the first pair of grouse we ever found, she was downwind of them too. 
Just did not have the slightest idea of what a grouse was so did not react. We still managed to kill them, but not off a point. She was introduced to the bodies as examples of why we were there, but never found any more that whole day.
This year the only grouse we found were jumped by one of my friends while my dog was off to the other end of the line, so she never got to point them either.
Last years pheasant hunt wasn't much better, the only pheasant SHE kicked up came busting out of some phrag with her trying to bite it's tail feathers out. Had not seen her for a minute or so, so have no idea if she pointed it first or not and did not get a chance to whoa her.
This year SHE POINTED A PHEASANT! No question about it, nice solid point, but the bird launched while my foot was stuck in a clump of eelgrass and I couldn't get the angle I needed for the shot, so it got away. Not a good way to encourage your dog to hunt them up. :| 
But at least I am sure that she finally knows what a pheasant is, if I ever manage to find any more.
My original intention upon getting a hunting dog of my very own was to get a GSP because of all that I had heard about them being so easy to train. I have since gotten information to the contrary, but not nearly as much. 

I met a guy one day in Sportsman's parking lot that had eight week old GSP pups that he was selling, he had video of the one male diving to the BOTTOM of a three foot water tank and retrieving a sinking dummy. EIGHT WEEKS!
He also had some bird wings with him and tossed them into the back of the truck where the pups were. ALL THREE OF THEM LOCKED ON POINT. Coolest thing I ever saw. We sat there and watched them for nearly a minute before one of the females broke and grabbed the wing closest to her. That set the other two off and they each grabbed a wing also. 
All three pups took the wing to their owner and dropped them. Admittedly this was all of a 3-4 foot retrieve, but these were eight week old pups. The guy told me this is how they were with him just playing with them in the back yard. He claimed not to be a good trainer either. hehe
I was working a job that had me out of town for three weeks+ a month and was not in a position to have a dog at that time, but I have always regretted not getting one of them.
I finally ended up with a Lab, many years later, and then finally got my GSP two years ago.
If her bloodline holds true and the male is everything his dad claimed him to be, those are going to be some darn fine pups, assuming she is even preg. She is not showing anything as of yet, so I still don't know. Can't afford to take her to the vet for xrays, or whatever, so I will just have to wait. :| 
Come the day I will probably put a thread on here about them with pics that I can update so you and anyone else interested can see them.


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## deadicatedweim (Dec 18, 2007)

In my opinion if you will be hunting alot in utah you defintly should get a dog that likes the water. Since utahs pheasants are declining I have been hunting them at wma's and have needed my dog to swim across ditches and do retrieves through the water. Also you will be able to use the dog for ducks and geese until it gets pretty cold. Growing up we had 3 gsp's one loved the water and would swim in it for fun, the other only would if a bird was in the water or on the other side, and the last only would get her legs wet and would not swim for the life of her. I like my weim cause she has a great nose, points and loves to swim so I can hunt her for all birds. The weims are a dog that need lots of interaction and a firm and consistent training. They usually are not good to be just left in the house by themselves cause they tend to panic but are fine to stay in the crate. When my dog is in the house with people she is mellow and just sleeps. Last thing if the dog is going to be in the house alot get a short hair dog that doesnt shed alot. My dads Llewellin setter sheds alot and the hair floats around like there are magnets in the air pulling it around.


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## jtoby_3 (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks again to all, you have given me some great information that i simply could not have found anywhere else! Its really good to read your posts and really see the passion you all have for your own dogs and breeds. Arrow really is a great looking dog, she seems to be all over this forum and for good reason everytime i hear about her she impresses me a little more. The same can be said for the wiem and the GSPs everyone keeps talking about. It seems like this decsion is gonna be one of the hardest i have ever made, I just cant seem to decide on a pointer or flusher i just want one of everything! So i continue to hunt over anydog i can find and talk to everyone that will listen to try and help me make this choice, one thing i keep hearing is most have had a springer in the past that they loved but then seem to switch to something else as of late. Sometimes good sometimes bad is a springer just no a good dog anymore or are they just infieror to the brits labs weins and GSP? thanks again!


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

I think you need to sit down and decide what you want to have happen while you are hunting. There are different breeds for different needs and purposes. I love my little dog but there are several drawbacks. She is not going to jump into the heavy marsh weeds and be able to move quickly and find the Pheasants that are often hiding in the thickest of places (if she did and went on point I would never find her). Also late season waterfowl retrieves are not something I would expect of her (she did break through some ice last week and swam out with me as I retrieved the decoys though).

If you dream of walking through the fields watching your dog at close range quarter back and forth in front of you than by all means get a flusher. Lab or a Springer would be my choice.

If you ever get addicted to chukar hunting it is really nice to have a dog that will get out and sweep the vast landscape and once they find birds slam on point until you get there.

One of my hunting partner has a lab and between the two dogs (Arrow and Abby). We are able to have the pointer way out working in front of us and the flusher catching anything within 50 yards of us. 

Both types will get the job done and both are fun to hunt behind. It all comes down to what you want.

The only real answer is to get both :lol:


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## cwp (Nov 25, 2007)

go with the brittany. I have 2 of them and they are good hunters as well as great pets for the kids. They love to run and are extremely loyal in the field, well behaved, and very enerjetic. However you do need to exercise them or they will drive you nuts.
Cory


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## Texscala (Sep 8, 2007)

cwp said:


> . However you do need to exercise them or they will drive you nuts.
> Cory


That is why I went with the French. She is lazier than lazy indoors until she gets to hunt and then she turns it on.

40 yards out.









15 yards out









5 yards out









A big chukar took off from just over the ledge.


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