# General season Elk



## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

First time hunting ever. I have a general season anybull tag. Im looking for scouting tips or any advise on places to start. Not looking for your honey whole( unless you want to provide) just don’t want to be missing something.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Pick your area, find a spot to look at a bunch of area and glass early morning and late evening. If you find some spend the day hiking around the area. You will either figure out their pattern or blow them out of the area. Rinse and repeat.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

middlefork said:


> Pick your area, find a spot to look at a bunch of area and glass early morning and late evening. If you find some spend the day hiking around the area. You will either figure out their pattern or blow them out of the area. Rinse and repeat.


Thank you


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

I would do more glassing and less hiking around. if you find them, try and pattern them from far off before you go in and possibly blow them out. Get as much info as you can and then formulate your plan to get in close enough for a shot.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

What am I looking for in a good area to glass outside of seeing elk.


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## OriginalOscar (Sep 5, 2016)

good website - Preseason Elk Scouting | Elk101.com | Eat. Sleep. HUNT ELK!

Elk need water, feed, shelter. If you can find a point to glass which show all three. Glass early and late. 

Couple other suggestions. Look for walk in area. Horse-Hike trails, Gated Roads. If you can find areas without livestock. Look for areas you can walk into several miles. 

You also need to figure out recovery if you kill one. 

Good luck.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I can get some pack animals to get out if I get something. I just need tips so I’m not looking at an empty field all day with binoculars.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Figure out what they eat. Everything you need to know can be found on the web. Not to be a jerk but that's what I did when I started.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I have been reading, watching videos, looking at maps and hiking. Not scared of the work or the research I’m doing it. But boots on the ground experience is a lot different than what your read. But thanks for your comment how ever helpful it wasn’t and trying to turn this into drama. Just looking for advise not rudeness.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I know that the area I hunt, the elk are thick as fly's during the archery hunt. Come rifle season you wont find a elk in that area. 

Read some information on Elk and their cycle and habitat. Once you learn the animal, learn the area. It takes a few years to figure out an area and the habits of elk. It only takes one good push to blow them out of the area as well.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Red_Ryder said:


> First time hunting ever.


Most important sentence in your original post. Big can o worms of questions. Are you running solo or with a friend? Do you have plenty of hiking and outdoors experience? In my head, hunting is a progression, and it starts with being an avid hiker.

I used to be what some would call a "peak bagger", or just an objectively oriented hiker. Must.. make .. it... to.. top.... period. It was an athletic activity. I measured success by miles hiked, and if I made it to the top or not. Why get to the top? Because it was there. When I first strarted hunting, it took me a couple seasons to realize I had to switch gears. In short, I had to slow way down and realize that my objective was VERY different, and success is measured differently. Hiking became a baseline activity that I no longer focused on, it was only a means to an end, my head was in a completely different place. Just throwing this out there incase your coming from the same background or mentality. 

Aside from that, there isn't much I could add that others haven't already said. My advice is to focus (preferably glassing) on areas with water, near or in areas where pines and aspens intersect, and maybe a north-ish facing slope in such areas. That's where you'll find most of their needs. Water, food, and shelter. It doesn't take much to spook them out of an area too. You want to disturb an area as little as possible. I've found that if you so much as piss out your morning coffee near a game trail, they could reroute. So If your suffering from what I call, " Next Hill-itus", you'll have to reign in your urge to explore and back out of an area before you blow them out.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You are just going to need to get out into the woods and start looking. 

Find a high spot that you can see quite a few open area of grass, quaking aspens are better than pines in that they have grass in them for feed. Sit down and start glassing. 

You need to be in your spot before daylight and stay there for the whole day, if you don't see anything then perhaps move on. While walking through the area look for tracks and droppings to tell you if you might even be in the right kind of spot. 

Elk hunting success rates are low for a reason.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I understand what your saying about a destination hiker. I have been on hikes that were long as hell. Some my choice some the Marine Corps.


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## 67015 (Jan 29, 2021)

I've been scouting for several weeks now, I can tell you with the amount of water we've had lately the elk will be all over, they don't need to concentrate around springs when every low spot is a pond right now. 800$ in fuel so far, and with it being 4.40 a gallon its just gonna get more expensive, find some secluded grassy meadows and elk shouldn't be to far. Pull up a map of the unit your interested in, look for a high spot to glass and stay there. If you don't see anything one day maybe you will the next, theyre roaming like crazy right now. And you'll have heards of cows with spikes, bachelor heards of bulls, then the big mature bulls seem to be singular and doing theyre own thing right now, should start rubbing there velvet off here in the next few weeks


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I went hiking/scouting in Vernon but only found deer and cattle the day I went out.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Vernon is one of the worst any bull units that there is, it is only surpassed by the Henry Mountains. 

There are elk out there but the DWR want's them gone. 

You really need to head north to the units in the north west section of the state if you are serious about bagging a elk.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I’m planning on going to the Unitas area this weekend. But have heard it is packed.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Any area that holds elk will be packed, but you have to go to where the elk are. 

As I said the Vernon unit has elk but not many and they DWR would like to get rid of all of them out there from what I understand. They want that unit to be just about deer. The same with the Henry Mountains. I saw a real nice bull down there a couple of years ago but finding him or others during the hunt is next to impossible.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

This first year will be spent learning an area for you, finding spots to glass, potential feeding areas, water sources, so on. Next year, spend time scouting, learn the areas they bed and feed and their exit routes, once you do that, it’s just about putting yourself in the right spot.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Critter said:


> You are just going to need to get out into the woods and start looking.
> 
> Find a high spot that you can see quite a few open area of grass, quaking aspens are better than pines in that they have grass in them for feed. Sit down and start glassing.
> 
> ...


Quoted for Emphases.
Get a reliable headlamp, and be comfortable hiking in the dark.

One of my glassing points at first light: This is acutally a screenshot of a video I took. What you don't hear is the elk bugling in the background.









This is a uniquely perfect area on what I posted earlier. It's not always this picture perfect:

The opposite slope is north facing.
Down in the valley is a creek.
Mostly aspens, mixed with some pines. Lots of grass.
no hiking trails into the valley below
no sheep (they're acutally in the valley behind me in this photo)
Excellent glassing point.
I scout this area every year. Elk are always here during calving season, but they are not always present when archery season starts. Very hit or miss. Last year during archery, this area was as crowded as rifle season, and the elk left the week before opening, so I'm probably skipping it this year. If the elk haven't left already with the last full moon, they will opening day.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

It's good that you are getting out and looking. Get on the DWR's hunt planner and look at the any bull units and their associated success rates. That might be a good spot to start and get a general idea of the units that you want to look at. If this is your first year hunting elk, prep for success, but don't be bummed if it doesn't come. Elk are tough animals to hunt, and the success rates show it. It may take you several years to figure out the area you decide on. Don't stress about it - success takes time and you'll learn a ton if you put effort into it on your end. That effort will eventually translate into steaks in the freezer.

With the above said, you won't find many people on here that are willing to give up their spots. It's not because people don't want to help, it's simply that it takes time to find productive areas on any bull units, and you never know if Joe Q Public who is sworn to secrecy suddenly decides to bring his family and 5 closest friends into the "secret spot" and blows everything to hell. It happens EVERY year, so the smart folks don't give up that kind of info easily, if at all - especially to internet strangers.

One last tip, when looking at success rates on the units, make sure and account for private property in those units. Sometimes success rates may be higher in units with high private acreage, but the average hunter is not able to benefit from that because they are stuck on the few public parcels. If you do decide to hunt a unit with high private acreage (and don't have access rights), make sure that you have an OnX chip. Most landowners do not look on trespassers favorably in those units, so knowing where you are at in relation to private boundaries is VERY important.


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## 67015 (Jan 29, 2021)

Red_Ryder said:


> I went hiking/scouting in Vernon but only found deer and cattle the day I went


I've hunted elk in vernon and I can tell you there are a few elk there but not enough to go out and look for them.... I did it for 5 years. Killed a few cows, seen a few bulls but thats multi season hunting all 3 seasons for virtually the whole time. I won't be back. 5,000 people out there looking for 100 elk.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I don’t expect people to give up their spots. I am happy to put the work in and look forward to locating something on my own. But I do appreciate the advise and little tips so I’m not glassing a tree all day hoping the magic elk fairy will show up. Like I feel like I did last weekend for 6 hrs. 
I looked at the plan your hunt for the units and have downloaded and paid for OnX about a week ago it seems very beneficial. I didn’t know the private land areas counted for an area. That makes the information a lot less accurate. With those numbers also how does DWR know the amount of people that hunted the area if tags are for multiple areas.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I was thinking about bouncing between Vernon and the Unitas but it seems the general consensus so far is Vernon is not the right area and definitely not for a beginner.


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## 67015 (Jan 29, 2021)

Red_Ryder said:


> I was thinking about bouncing between Vernon and the Unitas but it seems the general consensus so far is Vernon is not the right area and definitely not for a beginner.


I can tell ya, ive guided deer in vernon for years, ive spent countless days out there.... 50+ a year usually.. and I don't hunt elk there anymore. After this year I'll be in the Uintahs with everyone else. There's alot of people there I know but there's also more elk there then the other general season bull areas.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Red_Ryder said:


> so I’m not glassing a tree all day hoping the magic elk fairy will show up. Like I feel like I did last weekend for 6 hrs.


When your not sure where to hunt, stay mobile. Learn the criteria on where to start looking, "e scout" it, then glass it at first light. After you've glassed from first light until say.... anywhere between 9 to 10 AM, mind the wind, and go check for tracks and scat on any nearby trails or prominate terrain features like a chock point ,saddle, watering hole, wallow, mineral scrape. If you see nothing, move on. I don't have the patience to sit there for 6 hours unless i've got nothing better to do, no where better to go, or a reason to keep looking. Sometimes I know elk are there from previous scouting, and a single cow can reveal the position of an entire herd bedded up in the trees where you can't see them.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Red_Ryder said:


> I looked at the plan your hunt for the units and have downloaded and paid for OnX about a week ago it seems very beneficial. I didn’t know the private land areas counted for an area. That makes the information a lot less accurate. With those numbers also how does DWR know the amount of people that hunted the area if tags are for multiple areas.


DWR uses harvest numbers for all areas within a unit whether they be public or private land. On units where there is alot or majority private land (Ogden, East Canyon, etc.), success rates are generally higher on private land and can skew the overall success rate for the unit. Example, there may be a 40% success rate on private and a 10% success rate on public. That may translate to a 25% success rate overall (trying to keep things easy math-wise here), but that 25% is a 15% delta from what the truth is on the public side of the equation. This is one reason why the DWR has issued "private land only cow tags" to try and keep elk moving to and from private/public parcels. Elk are smart and they will put down roots on private in short order when pressured on the public parcels if there is no real pressure to move them off the private.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Careful Lone Hunter.... I know where your at.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I don’t know what that even means.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Red_Ryder said:


> I don’t know what that even means.


My guess is he is referring to Lone's picture of elk country. But maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway I think you have gotten some good advice. Just remember any bull areas are a tough hunt. Try and enjoy the learning process.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

Maybe I’m reading this wrong but it seems like you’re wanting specific locations on where to glass, which you probably aren’t going to get on here. Areas are hard earned so people hold em close.

as for the part about not wanting to spend your time glassing an empty field, that’s honestly how most of your time will be spent.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

Ray You would be wrong in assuming that. I was looking for the advice that some people provided above. Like northern slopes, not to bump them or they leave and hrs to glass.

Middlefork would be correct there is good information and I’m looking at locations in the Unitas now with google. Trying to plan my next area. 
Thank you to all who have provided the much needed advise.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I will say this about bumping them, some people will tell you if you bump them from their spot you won’t see them in it again that season, I’ve bumped em and literally got into them in the exact same spot the next day. 

Obviously try not to but if you do, don’t count that spot as no good anymore


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

That is good to know thank you


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have seen herds that have had elk shot out of them one day and they are back to the same location the next morning 

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Ray said:


> I will say this about bumping them, some people will tell you if you bump them from their spot you won’t see them in it again that season, I’ve bumped em and literally got into them in the exact same spot the next day.
> 
> Obviously try not to but if you do, don’t count that spot as no good anymore


i've found it depends on how disturbed you made them and what kind of terrain they are in. if deep cover is nearby then they will stop as soon as they feel safe. on the wasatch front i've bumped elk from tree patch to tree patch. they have been reluctant to cross bike trails and run no further than they feel necessary. after a few bumps you probably won't see them again for the rest of the day and maybe the week. it's best to back out and make a better plan when you know they are on edge and the conditions aren't in your favor.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

APD said:


> i've found it depends on how disturbed you made them and what kind of terrain they are in. if deep cover is nearby then they will stop as soon as they feel safe. on the wasatch front i've bumped elk from tree patch to tree patch. they have been reluctant to cross bike trails and run no further than they feel necessary. after a few bumps you probably won't see them again for the rest of the day and maybe the week. it's best to back out and make a better plan when you know they are on edge and the conditions aren't in your favor.


agreed but I wasn’t saying it’s a certainty they’ll be back, all I was saying is just cause you bump em once, doesn’t mean that spot is ruined for the remainder of the hunt


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Hey red ryder, I respect your reaching out for help and willing to work hard. Send me a on with your name and cell number and I'll send you pin drops of areas to look. Ok, I've done my good deed for this season. lol


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Ray said:


> agreed but I wasn’t saying it’s a certainty they’ll be back, all I was saying is just cause you bump em once, doesn’t mean that spot is ruined for the remainder of the hunt


If you’re in ideal elk habitat and there’s a fair amount of elk in the area, you can bump them day to day and they’ll still be there. They might be higher or lower in the drainage than they were the previous days, but if it’s a location they like, they won’t leave it unless absolutely necessary. And even then, more will move in soon after


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

So don’t bump. But if I do I didn’t necessarily blow the area or the hunt.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

MooseMeat said:


> If you’re in ideal elk habitat and there’s a fair amount of elk in the area, you can bump them day to day and they’ll still be there. They might be higher or lower in the drainage than they were the previous days, but if it’s a location they like, they won’t leave it unless absolutely necessary. And even then, more will move in soon after


This has been my experience in my archery spot, just last year I bumped them several times in the same drainage, at the same spring, just for them to move back in later that day


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## OriginalOscar (Sep 5, 2016)

Red_Ryder said:


> So don’t bump. But if I do I didn’t necessarily blow the area or the hunt.


Don't bump! Elk have better smell, sounds, sight than you. Get you a bottle of wind alert and use if often. During day currents rise, evenings they sink; however it often swirls. Sound you need to be quiet. Good shoes with soft soles, quiet materials, no zippers/velcro. 

Ok don't laugh about this suggestion! It's a measure of how you are doing. Periodically attempt to stalk up on a cow or better yet a herd of cattle. 

Best advise if get out and put some miles on your boots. Remember any day outside or hunting is better than any day inside so enjoy the experience.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

OriginalOscar said:


> Ok don't laugh about this suggestion! It's a measure of how you are doing. Periodically attempt to stalk up on a cow or better yet a herd of cattle.


Hahahaha great advice! Try to sneak up on an animal that has no fear of you or even care you exist. Its a real challenge sneaking up on something that’s just gonna stand there and watch you the entire time.

get the wind in your favor and you can almost always walk within 100 yard of them using a little common sense on the archery hunt. Elk are noisy and tolerate a noisy atmosphere much more than a deer would. Try to stay out of sight as much as possible and keep the wind in your face. It’s not that hard.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

middlefork said:


> My guess is he is referring to Lone's picture of elk country. But maybe I'm wrong.


The picture i posted is of an area that really isn't that hard to find, and has *a lot* of elk in it during calving season, on up to archery opener. I would be greatly surprised if I was the only guy on this forum who knows this area. This spot has gained so much popularity over 2020, I've little desire to hunt it. It's just going to end up being a cattle drive. That and im 98% sure the elk in that area leave by the first full moon of August. Found the area in 2018, and been watching it for the last couple years. In fact, i'll copy and paste some notes I have on the area:



> 2019, August 13 - Waxing Gibbous (96.22% full)
> 2019, August 15 - full moon
> 2019, Aug 17- OPENING DAY, Waning Gibbous (96.50% full) - Elk Present
> I think Elk left sometime that day, or that night.
> ...


I'm watching the area this year, just to see if i'm right or not. I suspect though that if they haven't left with the last full moon, they might be there on archery opener . Unless the draught has effected their food, then they might move on early. I think I've an idea where they've been going to based on rumors from coworkers who hunt an area waay further south, and having some large herd magically show up from out of nowhere. Regardless, theres so many people there now, its just a fluster cuck. I'd rather hunt an area that I have to myself, even though it has less elk.




Ray said:


> I will say this about bumping them, some people will tell you if you bump them from their spot you won’t see them in it again that season, I’ve bumped em and literally got into them in the exact same spot the next day.
> 
> Obviously try not to but if you do, don’t count that spot as no good anymore


Probably depends. Summer scouting, they'll probably move back. No consistent pressure. Opening of hunting season, and I've literally seen them make a beeline for private. (I'm sure we all have) 

Earlier I mentioned pissing out your morning coffee, i was ratting myself out. I've done that like the idiot that I am. Technically, walking down game trails isn't a good idea, (or so i've heard) but I do it all the time and haven't noticed that ive scented them up to where the elk leave. 

Now taking a piss... that'll do it. Paid rent on my morning coffee at the start of a game trail that was literally an active elk highway that was on the way to a mineral site. So I walked halfway up the canyon and placed a trail cam along this trail in an area they were clearly funneling in. Came back two weeks later and found the elk had rerouted, and were now coming out uphill from where they originally where, and uphill from where i emptied my bladder. I kinda thought it was a bad idea at the time, and two weeks later I had evidence of it.

Learn something new every day.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

OriginalOscar said:


> Don't bump! Elk have better smell, sounds, sight than you. Get you a bottle of wind alert and use if often. During day currents rise, evenings they sink; however it often swirls. Sound you need to be quiet. Good shoes with soft soles, quiet materials, no zippers/velcro.
> 
> Ok don't laugh about this suggestion! It's a measure of how you are doing. Periodically attempt to stalk up on a cow or better yet a herd of cattle.
> 
> Best advise if get out and put some miles on your boots. Remember any day outside or hunting is better than any day inside so enjoy the experience.


I could drive my truck into a pasture and the cows come running to me. Maybe I should road hunt Elk from now on?? 

No, really…. that's a good idea to try.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Have a plan for meat care and getting your elk out if you win the lottery and kill something. Lot's of dumbsh!ts out there hike in several miles, kill something, and then are physically/mentally unprepared for the tremendous amount of work it takes to get a carcass back to the vehicle. Know your limitations


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Red_Ryder said:


> I have been reading, watching videos, looking at maps and hiking. Not scared of the work or the research I’m doing it. But boots on the ground experience is a lot different than what your read. But thanks for your comment how ever helpful it wasn’t and trying to turn this into drama. Just looking for advise not rudeness.


My apologies! I truly wasn't trying to be rude or create drama. I've been a bit sleep deprived and grouchy recently, so I was just short in what I meant to convey. 

I learned a lot by listening to some podcasts with Randy Newberg, Corey Jacobson, and Paul Medel. I found that in listening to those guys, especially Randy and Paul, you get an idea of what elk needs are and how they think. What type of habitat they prefer to be in, etc. 

After I figured out where they prefer to be, how to differentiate their tracks and scat from deer and moose, and realized that I might have to cover a lot of ground initially to find them it became a lot easier.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

What Podcasts if you don’t mine me asking?


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

The one with Randy and Corey is Elktalk. There is some great info there, but the episodes are rather long and those two love to BS, so you have to put in time or just try to sift through all the content. The other info I've got from Randy Newberg has been through YouTube videos he's in where he's talking about how to use onx for scouting, I believe. 

The info I've got from Paul Medel has come from various people's podcasts where they interview him. I can't remember the names of all of them but I believe one that has had him on a few times is "interviews with the hunting masters" or something like that. I think I just searched "elknut" or "Paul Medel" on Spotify to find some of them. You should also buy Paul's Elknut app. For the price, it seriously is gold. I think it's like $20, so it's pretty cheap anyway. It has loads of help for calling scenarios, how to make the sounds, recordings of them from real elk and from a call, videos of Paul explaining stuff, what various sounds mean and when you might hear them, and elk behavior/hunting information in general. It really is my most valuable resource I've found so far. 

Also, one key tip for scat is that elk scat can look a bit more like moose scat if they're on a dryer/more woody diet instead of really wet grasses. So if you're in a wet area with a lot of grass and forbes, I'd look for the type that is more clumpy. It's kinda like chocolate Easter eggs (the 1" long foil wrapped ones) that got melted just enough to mash them all together in one big clump. It will be very dark in color and sometimes greenish when super fresh. If you're in a dry area, it's a bit harder to distinguish


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## OriginalOscar (Sep 5, 2016)

taxidermist said:


> I could drive my truck into a pasture and the cows come running to me. Maybe I should road hunt Elk from now on??
> 
> No, really…. that's a good idea to try.


the ones near roads just look at you, but the one we find a couple miles back are rangey. I take it as another sign perhaps I've avoided Team Trail Cam and the Salt Block Syndicate in their flat hats.


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## bowguyonly (Dec 31, 2018)

When it starts to suck. When you begin to think otherwise of what you're doing. Don't.
Don't give up. Don't ever give up.

All advice goes out the window as soon as you give up. There is more to giving up than going home.


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

bowguyonly said:


> When it starts to suck. When you begin to think otherwise of what you're doing. Don't.
> Don't give up. Don't ever give up.
> 
> All advice goes out the window as soon as you give up. There is more to giving up than going home.


That's my favorite advice here. Every time I start to feel sorry for myself, get frustrated and lose my focus, almost without fail I stumble into an animal. I'm then all flustered and mentally not sharp so I pit my shants and screw up. 
For me, I find I hit that mental wall pretty quick, maybe 2 or 3 days if I'm alone. I have learned I do better on weeklong trips with a buddy there. Helps keep me focused on the task at hand, plus if something goes wrong I can blame the other guy haha. In all honesty though it's just something I've learned about my hunting. Short solo trips are fun but if I'm out for a long time I do better with another hunter.
The mental aspect and focus isn't always the first thing talked about but I think it's important to find what works for you.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

I just change plan or areas. If what I'm doing isn't working, i'll try something else, even if I think it stupid or "sub optimal". Mentally, I find it refreshing.


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## ridgetop (Sep 13, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> I just change plan or areas. If what I'm doing isn't working, i'll try something else, even if I think it stupid or "sub optimal". Mentally, I find it refreshing.


Not me, I just keep making the same mistakes and hoping for different results. 😂


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

ridgetop said:


> Not me, I just keep making the same mistakes and hoping for different results. 😂


That is not as fun as making new mistakes and getting the same results!


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## Dexter (Sep 23, 2018)

Great advice from everyone above. I find that the further away I get from roads the more sign and animals I see. Like Lone_Hunter says, just slow down and look for signs of game in the area you're in. I generally see more elk after the first weekend and the yahoos leave for home. Good luck and happy hunting 🤞


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I plan on going out the whole time it is open. Hopefully I can get buddies not to flake.


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## SteepChutes (Aug 8, 2021)

Red_Ryder said:


> I plan on going out the whole time it is open. Hopefully I can get buddies not to flake.


I am also looking for a hunting partner for this hunt! I sent a PM


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

It never fails for me when hunting alone (90% of the time) I wind up shooting something. The last Elk I harvested only took me 10 hrs. to get to the wheeler. Downhill all the way through some of the thickest crap with downfall timber. Then a 30 min. slow wheeler ride to the truck.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I located an area with elk now my buddies are all about hunting and scouting. I still think they may flake opening weekend


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

Red_Ryder said:


> I located an area with elk now my buddies are all about hunting and scouting. I still think they may flake opening weekend


People are always willing to jump first in line to “help” when someone else has done the hard part for them. Remember that. Watch and see if they show up when you haven’t located elk before the hunt starts


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## Brave arrow (Dec 24, 2017)

I see these new hunter post all the time and majority of advice given relates to scouting and locating animals. Which is great for sure but very rarely do I see many talk about the other half of the equation. 
And that is shooting ability I have taken many new hunters out hunting and the #1 cause of no harvest is missing the animal.
I dont know how much shooting experience you have Red_Ryder with the weapon you chose to hunt with. But if you don't have much I would trade in field time for range time.
If a hunter puts themselves in a area that has animals you can always get lucky and run into one it happens all the time. But what I have never seen before is someone's shooting skills vastly improve when an opportunity arises in fact the opposite usually occurs and people shoot worse when under pressure and pumped with adrenaline.

Scouting is great for sure but if you don't have years of experience with your weapon under your belt I would encourage you to spend as much time as possible practicing with it between now and when your hunt starts.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Brave arrow said:


> I see these new hunter post all the time and majority of advice given relates to scouting and locating animals. Which is great for sure but very rarely do I see many talk about the other half of the equation.
> And that is shooting ability I have taken many new hunters out hunting and the #1 cause of no harvest is missing the animal.
> I dont know how much shooting experience you have Red_Ryder with the weapon you chose to hunt with. But if you don't have much I would trade in field time for range time.
> If a hunter puts themselves in a area that has animals you can always get lucky and run into one it happens all the time. But what I have never seen before is someone's shooting skills vastly improve when an opportunity arises in fact the opposite usually occurs and people shoot worse when under pressure and pumped with adrenaline.
> ...


That is probably the best advice I have read. I've seen some good shooters that can ding steel out to 800 yards consistently, miss an animal at 200 yards. Buck fever, adrenaline, or rushing a shot more than usual results in a gut shot animal that most unseasoned hunters think they missed. Listen for the sound of the bullet hitting the target, Very distinct sound that is known only from previous successful hunts.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

The problem may be more a lack of opportunity to make the decision to shoot or not. If you only have one opportunity to make a decision per season, it may take awhile to learn restraint. Reacting to hunting situations is a learned reaction. Practice at a range can help with confidence but there are many times other factors need to be considered. It is not an easy process to learn.

There are two parts to this. The hunting part and the shooting part. If you can't put yourself in enough situations of having to make the decision of shooting or not it will take a lot more effort and control to make a good decision to pull the trigger.

Buck or bull fever is real. I can't imagine hunting without a little adrenaline rush. I think it is what makes us tick. And watching others go through the experience is just as good.

But then again I always though it should be fun too. It's too easy to make it something it is not.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

When your dumping adrenaline, your shooting ability decreases to your level of training and/or practice. It takes something like a 1000 repetitions of something before its muscle memory. Very boring, very tedious, and at times, very expensive. Also, marksmanship (particuarlly with handguns) is a perishable skill.

edit: just an opinion.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

You are correct. But there is not a young person alive out there who will have the same opportunities to shoot at live game that some of us old farts have had. Be it rabbits or rats or anything else.
I personally have a hard time concentrating on shooting paper. I'm sure it is just me.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have watched a person that is in his 60's miss a huge buck at 30 yards while the buck was standing still. Then when it moved off to 75 yards, and again at 200 yards. All shots were from a sitting position while the buck was standing broadside. 

I watched the same person miss a bull elk at 50 yards and then hit him at 400. 

But the ultimate was when he missed 3 shots at a bison standing broadside at 70 yards. 

I have also watched this same person drop a running deer at 100 yards not to mention the number of jack rabbits he has shot on the run. 

Just plain and simple, buck fervor.


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## Brave arrow (Dec 24, 2017)

I know a guy who drew a LE rifle bull tag first try and dodged a 15 + year wait. This was also his first hunt ever. He spent many days on the mountain scouting for Bulls and he found quite a bit and had a great success with trail cams. He bought a brand new .30-06 for the hunt and the only practice he had was sighting it in. 
Well when the day came he had a good bull at 100 yards and he could not even get on target. He fumbled around for minutes trying to get in a comfortable shooting position and locate the animal in the scope. The bull literally walked off did not even get shot at.
He blew a few more opportunities and ultimately ate tag soup. 
It was a lack of skill more than it was a lack of opportunity.
Range time can be more than just improving accuracy. Use it to learn how to locate targets with your scope, find your preferred shooting position, see how quickly you can get set for a shot, and simulate shooting under pressure.

The closest I can come to simulating buck fever is to have a shooting partner walk and find a spot at an unknown distance from the target. When they say go you sprint to that person to accelerate your heart rate when you get there you have 15 seconds to range target set yourself and make the shot. 

Range time is not as fun as finding animals I have to agree but if utilized correctly you will pick up very valuable skills for the field aside from just accuracy.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

For the shooting portion I am not concerned. I am very confident in that ability with breathing, slowing the heart and taking a shot. 
I am concerned with the after. So you shot something then what. How long to let it sit before quartering and putting in game bags and do I let the game bags hang for awhile.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Red_Ryder said:


> For the shooting portion I am not concerned. I am very confident in that ability with breathing, slowing the heart and taking a shot.
> I am concerned with the after. So you shot something then what. How long to let it sit before quartering and putting in game bags and do I let the game bags hang for awhile.


With big game; when it's dead, take a few pictures, enjoy the moment and then start cutting it up. Do not wait just to wait--get after it! You need to get the hide off and get the animal quartered/gutted immediately. Heat spoils meat and getting that animal's hide off quickly is essential to game care. Back in the day it was all about gutting the animal and then dragging it to the truck. I think skinning and quartering have replaced the old ways for many people--myself included. I always carry quality game bags and get the skinned quarters bagged up and in the shade as quickly as possible. There are a ton of great videos on Youtube and today's hunters have so many resources for learning that we never did. Hit up Youtube and learn as much as you can. Hanging skinned quarters in the shade will go a long ways towards meat care but that clock is always running until you get them home in a cooler/freezer.

Another note--breaking down a bull elk by oneself is hard work! Experienced guys can get it done in under an hour. If ya have some ibuprofen take them before ya start. You will be bent over lifting heavy a lot and it can be rough on the back. Several sharp knives and paracord go a long way to making that somewhat easier.


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## Airborne (May 29, 2009)

Here is a pic of my bull from last year and an example of using mule tape, paracord and ingenuity to make the job easier. I was solo and a big help is to keep the legs up and out of the way while breaking down the animal. You can tie off legs to trees or antlers but then be sure to counterweight the antler if ya need to. Solo is always harder but is more fulfilling at least to me.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

Couple items I learned the hard way after shanking a cow elk through the carotid artery (lucky shot), that laid down and died in the sun, at around noon, in the middle of august:


That clock is definitely ticking.
Get skin off ASAP, allow heat to escape.
Gut the bitch if it's hot. Allow more heat to escape and stop the bloating. Ever see those exploding whale pictures? That's what it reminds me of.
550 cord is awesome, have some in precut lengths.
don't let the meat get dirty. I had alot of spoilage because I let the meat get dirty while deboning in the field. Use the skin as a dropcloth, or pack a cheap ground sheet in your kill kit.
Knives can dull fast, even when cutting with the grain of the fur, and you don't have time for that BS when the clock is ticking. I switched to gerber with disposable blades, super sharp though, if you have an accident, it's going to be a bad day.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

It's tuff getting the job done without a "GOOD knife"!! I've tried the disposable blade types and I didn't like the way they performed. Ya, they are sharp as all get out but as soon as you hit a bone they are done. Because of so many knifes that say they are sharp and the edge lasts, I have began forging blades for myself and family. It's fun as well. 

I've gone the rout of the gutless method now. I find for myself it's much faster and your only having to pack out meat. The last elk I did this way, I was done and on my way within 45minutes. I do try to restrain myself from shooting an elk when alone that is in a deep hole. May not cut a tag every year, but I'm not laid up for a week after. Hunt smarter and not always harder is the rout I've taken now. I let the young guns go in deep for them and then take the leftovers they push out my way.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

There are valid reasons not to go the gutless route. But I agree, if I have to move it anymore than a few hundred yards it will be quartered and deboned on the spot.

I have found a good old utility box cutter with standard blades works well for skinning and if caping a roofers blade make easy work of the Y cut and along the back bone. I have a folding Buck knife if I need something heavier and a 6" filet knife for boning out.

Placing meat that has been boned off on limbs close by can help cool the meat before bagging. But try to keep it clean.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

I have a benchmade knife and a sharpener, quarter bags and was watching videos on the gutless method and seem to like it better but who knows until I’m actually there.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

We have always just cleaned the elk and rolled the innards away. 

But we have also taken out everything but the skin. Leaving the bones in the meat gives the meat structure for packing out. On the hind legs we'll leave the hooves on, that way if you get tired packing you can just stand it up until you are ready to get it back up on your shoulder. 

On average we'll have 8 packages to pack out.

For a knife I like my Gerber Gator folder. The rubberized grip makes it easy to hold onto when bloody, and the blade holds its edge

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> It's tuff getting the job done without a "GOOD knife"!! I've tried the disposable blade types and I didn't like the way they performed. Ya, they are sharp as all get out but as soon as you hit a bone they are done.


Ahh man, I haven't even got to use my new toy yet and now I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about it anymore. Guess I'll say thanks for the warning about bones. Any suggestion on a good knife that doesnt loose its edge quickly? I carried two knives, and both them were dull as hell when i was done. I ended up having to finish my work with a gerber strongarm because it was all I had left.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Lone_Hunter said:


> Ahh man, I haven't even got to use my new toy yet and now I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about it anymore. Guess I'll say thanks for the warning about bones. Any suggestion on a good knife that doesnt loose its edge quickly? I carried two knives, and both them were dull as hell when i was done. I ended up having to finish my work with a gerber strongarm because it was all I had left.


Critter mentioned the Gerber Gator. That is a good knife with decent steel and does stay sharper than most. If you can find the Gerber's that were made in the USA those are the ones you want. Gerber is now made in China. That is one reason I'm making blades now. I can choose the steel I use for a blade, be it 1085, 1095, 80CRV2,15N20, 1580 and so on. Different steel structure is from the additives placed in the recipe of the steel. High carbon steel is what you want for a blade that will hold it's edge longer. It is also the hardening, quenching, tempering process and what type of oil the blade was quenched in.

The heating (forging) of steel changes the grain structure of the steel. A fine grain is what is desired. Quenching hardens the steel, tempering helps the steel flex without breaking. The edge grind can also determine the blades ability to become and stay sharp. Hollow grind, chisel grind, tapered grind and so on.

Wow rambling..... Just stay away from the China made crap.


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## Lone_Hunter (Oct 25, 2017)

taxidermist said:


> Critter mentioned the Gerber Gator. That is a good knife with decent steel and does stay sharper than most. If you can find the Gerber's that were made in the USA those are the ones you want. Gerber is now made in China. That is one reason I'm making blades now. I can choose the steel I use for a blade, be it 1085, 1095, 80CRV2,15N20, 1580 and so on. Different steel structure is from the additives placed in the recipe of the steel. High carbon steel is what you want for a blade that will hold it's edge longer. It is also the hardening, quenching, tempering process and what type of oil the blade was quenched in.
> 
> The heating (forging) of steel changes the grain structure of the steel. A fine grain is what is desired. Quenching hardens the steel, tempering helps the steel flex without breaking. The edge grind can also determine the blades ability to become and stay sharp. Hollow grind, chisel grind, tapered grind and so on.
> 
> Wow rambling..... Just stay away from the China made crap.


Here's a Gerber you don't see everyday. My dad got it for me sometime in the 90s when i was still in uniform. I think a lot of guys in my day got similar knives. Never really used it except one time I can recall, and that was to get a bullet out of a quakey. I've often thought of starting to acutally use it, but it's more knife then what I need, can't say i care much for the sawback, and I think they've become something of a collectors item now. I'd never sell it, so maybe i should use it, I dunno.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Of the replaceable blade knives I've used, I prefer the razor pro from outdoor edge. They went up in price recently but I got mine at Scheels for $34. I like that it has the skinner built in and the blades are both sturdy and better supported. I carry a spare knife just in case but haven't needed it since I switched to the razor pro.


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## Isuckathunting (Sep 15, 2019)

Jero knives makes a 3 piece butcher set that comes with a skinning knife, boning knife and a butcher knife that's great for separating muscles and silver skin. That set is like $50 from mad cow cutlery. They come from Portugal, they are really well made. Not your typical backcountry knives but they are awesome. 
I've used them in professional settings cutting meat and one day we did 5 pigs, sharpened at the beginning of the day and after the third pig. Usually sharpening in the morning will get you through a whole beef no problem. They're good knives, also way cheaper than a Benchmade or something else along those lines of quality.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I pack 3 knives and a small bone saw, the outdoor edge as mentioned above, a fixed gerber for heavy work (splitting rib cage, cutting around ball joint, etc and the saw for pelvis) and a folding Kershaw knife that I use for cutting cordage and just daily tasks.

I don’t always process my deer and elk that way, only when I can get the animal out whole.

I understand 3 knives and a bone saw might be overkill for some but I like knives and I usually end up using all of them anyway


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## CPAjeff (Dec 20, 2014)

For everything except cutting and wrapping, my go-to is a simple utility knife.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

I guess any knife will work as long as one knows how to sharpen the thing. If you cant cleanly peel hair off your arm like a razorblade, it isn't sharp. 

If you want to test the steel of your knife, get a piece of copper pipe and using a chopping method, chop it onto the pipe HARD!! If it shows damage to the cutting edge, glinting, rolling, or damage of any kind, toss it in the trash because it isn't worth having. You don't put bald tires on your truck, so why would you carry a sh!t knife?


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Someone has been watching Forged in Fire too much on the History Channel. 

One thing that I would never do with any knife is misuse it in any way. Cheaper knifes work if you keep a edge on them, you may have to sharpen them more often that a better quality one. 

Look at the type of knife that quite a few taxidermist use to cape animals, they are usually a cheap short blade knife that is sharpened very easily. 

The key is to keep the knife sharp. The one replaceable razor knife that I won't use again is a Havalon. I used one once and the blade came of inside of the animal. I stopped right there with what I was doing until we got the animal back to camp to finish the work. There was no way that I was going to reach into a body cavity with a razor blade in it somewhere just waiting. I have a couple of the Outdoor Edge razor knifes and prefer them for skinning. The blade are very sturdy and not very flexible and are easy to change.


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Red_Ryder said:


> For the shooting portion I am not concerned. I am very confident in that ability with breathing, slowing the heart and taking a shot.
> I am concerned with the after. So you shot something then what. How long to let it sit before quartering and putting in game bags and do I let the game bags hang for awhile.


Look up Larry Bartlett on YouTube. I think it's on YouTube. You may need to Google him. He has some incredible videos on meat care. 

Also look up Randy newbergs video on the gutless method. It very very helpful. 

Depending on outside temp, your location, and how late ng the animal has been expired, I'd try to keep the quarters bone in. It makes it easier to pack.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Critter said:


> Someone has been watching Forged in Fire too much on the History Channel.
> 
> One thing that I would never do with any knife is misuse it in any way. Cheaper knifes work if you keep a edge on them, you may have to sharpen them more often that a better quality one.
> 
> ...


Forged in Fire is a great show. The way they test the blades in the show is exactly what a Blade Smith goes through to become a "Master Blade Smith". Very nerve wracking. 

For Taxidermy work, I used three different surgical scalpels that could hold various types of blades. The blades are identical to the Havalon knife. (at least one of the types) These work excellent when facing and turning capes on big game and life-size mounts.


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## Frank M (Jul 28, 2021)

Red_Ryder said:


> For the shooting portion I am not concerned. I am very confident in that ability with breathing, slowing the heart and taking a shot.
> I am concerned with the after. So you shot something then what. How long to let it sit before quartering and putting in game bags and do I let the game bags hang for awhile.


Once the elk is down and dead the clock begins. A thumb rule is you have about 24 hours to get the meat down to the 40 degree F range. Here is my example scenario from last year.

11:30 AM Archery, cow elk dead and down
12:30 PM Return to kill from 1 mile walk to camp/truck. Started generator to power freezer converted to fridge set at 42 F in back of truck and moved truck 300 yards closer. Wearing different clothes, traded bow pack for frame pack with 1/2 gal water, multiple knives, para-cord, anti-microbial bags, Power-Aide
2:30 PM Returned to truck with 70 lbs boneless hind Q, front shoulder, one back strap, into fridge on racks
3 PM roll elk over for second side, using skinned hide as fly cover
4 PM Returned to truck with 70 lbs boneless hind Q, front shoulder, 2nd back strap into fridge
5 PM Retuned to truck with 70 lbs head, genitals, boneless meat, cut open to get tenderloin, heart liver. All meat in 42 degree fridge.
7 PM Camp broken down, begin slow drive out.
8 PM On the pavement driving.
10:30 PM Re-fill generator with gas, still driving.
11:30 PM Home. Warmest meat is 60 F. Set freezer/fridge to 38 F.
12:30 AM Sleep.
6 AM Up. Check meat, all now at 40F or cooler. Let age, in fridge/freezer, in anti-microbial bags. Register the kill. 18 hours or less to get the meat cooled down. Ice is faster & messy.

4 Days Pull pieces out of anti-microbial bags, make steaks and burger, package and freeze.
14 Days remove tag from head, keep, and throw away head and genitals.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

And that is how it's done. Great post FrankM. Reality check for sure.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

If you are backpacking in any distance, I stay away from regular knives as they are too heavy, sharpeners add extra weight, and I flat out hate trying to sharpen them in the field when time is not always your friend. I love my Havalons and they are super light and with 3, maybe 4, blades, I can finish up an elk and not have to worry about dull blades. Yes, they don't fare well if you are prying, but IMO, knives are not made for prying, they are slicers, and that's mainly what I use them for. A small drop point knife with a 3.5" blade is all I need if I need to get into a joint with a little more backbone. This system keeps my weight down and saves me time in the end.

Another thought on quartering an elk - it is important to keep the meat clean, and depending on the temperature, you can quarter them out with the hide on. This is not my preference because it's so much easier to get the hide off when they are warm, but if you're concerned with keeping the meat clean, leaving the hide on pretty much fixes the problem. Again, not my preferred method but have used it a couple times when the conditions warranted/allowed it.

If you use this method, don't forget to take the neck meat and the tenderloins (backstraps are a given). Lots of good meat there that you don't want to waste.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

How do I cool it down. I don’t have a way to keep ice in the field that long or a deep freeze i can bring.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Get it into a game bag and hang it in the shade. If you have to lay it on the ground prop some sticks under it to allow for air to circulate around the meat. If there is snow on the ground don't figure that the snow will cool it off, that snow is a good insulator and will keep the heat in, so like laying it on the ground get some sticks under it to help air circulate around the meat.

I have hung a whole elk up in some oak brush the first of September when the weather is quite warm for overnight before packing it out the next morning and didn't loose any meat. But you have to get it out of the sun. Then if you have to head to town to a processor or home to get it taken care of. 

My dad used to keep meat in the garage for a couple of months before he would cut it up. He would wrap it up in blankets in the early mornings and keep it wrapped up that way all day. Then when it cooled off at night he would go out and unwrap the meat and let the cool night air circulate around the meat. Then he would repeat the next day.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

Biggest factors for cooling meat are to get it off the ground and in the shade. If air can't circulate around it or the sun is beating down on it, things can go south really quick. If there is a creek nearby, get the meat as close to the creek as possible as it will be a few degrees cooler in the creek bottom than the surrounding terrain. Don't let the meat get wet though - that is no bueno and can lead to myriad problems.

Also, can't over emphasize using quality game bags. If you get the cheap crap that rips and tears as you insert the meat, you will loose meat to blow flies and wasps. Gotta keep those critters at bay, and good bags are priceless when an animal is down.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

I have seen where those wasp have chewed through a good canvas bag to get to the meat. Those things are bad.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

Any recommendations on where to process and price


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

Red_Ryder said:


> Any recommendations on where to process and price


Depends where you live. I've seen it from $150 - $350. It gets real expensive when you have the Butcher make Jerky. I process my own wild game but after years of doing this, I have all the tools.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

Learning how to do it yourself is a good thing. That way you know what cuts of meat you have in the package and how clean it is. 

The biggest expense is a grinder if you want burger, but you can always take the grind meat into a processor and have him grind it. But if you do the gutless method and bone it out in the field you have most of the work done. All that is needed at home are a couple sharp knifes, plastic wrap, and butcher wrapping paper. And if you leave the bones in a bone saw. It isn't as complicated as it sounds.


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## Ray (May 10, 2018)

I did what Critter is saying with the burger in 2018 with a cow elk, was pretty cheap and they did a good job, I also had them make some pepperoni sticks

With how **** hot it’s been, if I shoot a spike or cow on the archery hunt, I’ll take the entire thing in, I don’t really want to rush my process and two out my 3 kids just got the stomach flu, so I might be puking while sitting a waterhole next weekend 😂


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

If you don't mind spending the time doing it, process it yourself. I couldn't find anywhere I wanted to take mine. I got a very nice grinder one sale and have made my money back on probably just 1 elk


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## 67015 (Jan 29, 2021)

I have a grinder and all the things. But if I shoot a elk this season it'll go to Thompsons meats in erda. I just can't hang it to age it and simply I don't have the time to cut it myself. I've done it before and it took me 3 days after work to get it done.... after 3 nights of smelling and cutting elk it took a good while until I wanted to eat any.


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

+100 on learning how to butcher your own animals. As Yote said, it's a chore (not my favorite when cutting up an elk at midnight for 4, 3-4 hour nights in a row), but will save you hundreds of dollars and give you a sense of accomplishment to boot.

Contrary to what a lot of guys do/think, i don't worry about aging deer, elk, antelope, etc. There is so little fat on them that it doesn't make much of a difference...to me, at least. I'll start cutting it up as soon as i can. Aging might help tenderize an old rank buck or bull, but i don't shoot too many 4+ year old animals, so I don't bother with it. My meat always turns out great, and if having guests, it all goes away FAST!

Do yourself a favor and make sure to connect with your butcher first on grinding meat. Some have started to refuse this if the meat doesn't come in on the bone. Better to know this ahead of time and not when you bring a bag of boned meat just to be turned away. B/t/w...a good Kitchen Aide with the metal gears and a grinder attachment does fine so long as you don't overload it and use sharp grinding blades. Been using ours for 15+ years with no issues. Not as fast, but i usually only grind 40-50 lbs a year, and it goes thru that plenty quick.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

For grinding meat do a search for Goobs $99 meat grinder. I think that in his last report he has put more than a ton of meat through it.

I also agree on it being a chore. I cut up a bull one year and I started at 7am and finished everything at 11pm with a couple of breaks between. It almost made me want to be married again so that I had some help, but I quickly came to my senses. 

I had a hard time eating the tenderloins the next day, but once I tasted them right out of the frying pan I quickly recuperated.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

Might be a wives tale but the times I havent allowed the meat to go thru rigor I've had tough meat. When I age I'm looking to break down connective tissues and allow for any residual blood to pool out. About a quarter of the time I don't have time to do it right and that's when a trusted butcher is worth the price.


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Rigor mortis - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





*"Physical changes[edit]*
At the time of death, a condition called "primary flaccidity" occurs. Following this, the muscles stiffen in rigor mortis. All muscles in the body are affected. Starting between two and six hours following death, rigor mortis begins with the eyelids, neck, and jaw. The sequence may be due to different lactic acid levels among different muscles, which is directly related to the difference in glycogen levels and different types of muscle fibers.
Rigor mortis then spreads to the other muscles, including the internal organs, within the next four to six hours. The onset of rigor mortis is affected by the individual's age, sex, physical condition, and muscular build. Rigor mortis generally peaks at 12 hours, and dissipates after 48 hours.
Rigor mortis may not be perceivable in many infant and child corpses due to their smaller muscle mass.[6]
*Applications in meat industry[edit]*
Rigor mortis is very important in the meat industry. The onset of rigor mortis and its resolution partially determines the tenderness of meat. If the post-slaughter meat is immediately chilled to 15 °C (59 °F), a phenomenon known as cold shortening occurs, whereby the muscle sarcomeres shrink to a third of their original length.
Cold shortening is caused by the release of stored calcium ions from the sarcoplasmic reticulum of muscle fibers, in response to the cold stimulus. The calcium ions trigger powerful muscle contraction aided by ATP molecules. To prevent cold shortening, a process known as electrical stimulation is carried out, especially in beef carcasses, immediately after slaughter and skinning. In this process, the carcass is stimulated with alternating current, causing it to contract and relax, which depletes the ATP reserve from the carcass and prevents cold shortening.[7]"


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## rtockstein (Mar 17, 2019)

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one who has spent 3-4 nights and 3-4 hours each time processing meat. 

It wears me out, but feels so satisfying when it's in the freezer.


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## APD (Nov 16, 2008)

middlefork said:


> Rigor mortis - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for the article. it's an interesting read. i'll have to hook the next carcass up to some 110v like Rambo II and see how tender it tastes.


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

What if you cook it in an Electric Skillet.... Does that help 

I worked in a butcher shop during hunting season in the 80's and I got to be quite proficient boning wild game after the 50th deer or elk. And when a shop says they do each animal separate, well that's a load of BS if its a decent sized shop. They don't have the time to clean and sanitize a grinder after each animal. Whatever the grind meat weight is on your tag, that is what they package for you from the 400lb. bin of ground meat. Not all shops are like this. I know some shops that are smaller and they do each animal at a time. That is where you want to take your game if your not doing it yourself.


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## 2full (Apr 8, 2010)

taxidermist said:


> What if you cook it in an Electric Skillet.... Does that help
> 
> I worked in a butcher shop during hunting season in the 80's and I got to be quite proficient boning wild game after the 50th deer or elk. And when a shop says they do each animal separate, well that's a load of BS if its a decent sized shop. They don't have the time to clean and sanitize a grinder after each animal. Whatever the grind meat weight is on your tag, that is what they package for you from the 400lb. bin of ground meat. Not all shops are like this. I know some shops that are smaller and they do each animal at a time. That is where you want to take your game if your not doing it yourself.


In the late 80's I shot a 2 point (unfortunately I hit it in the butt as he was running ). 
When I went to pick it up, the owner of the shop kept saying.......that was a big nice buck....
I got back two boxes of meat from that deer. Where the year before I got back a single box from a nice 4 point I shot thru the lungs. He had 3 or 4 guys cutting for him and they were processing a LOT of deer. You do not get your own deer for sure from some of them. 

And to top it off......I found 3 packages of lamb in with my deer meat with somebody else's name stamped on it !!


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## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

very true....


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## Wasatch_Outdoors (Aug 19, 2019)

Airborne said:


> Have a plan for meat care and getting your elk out if you win the lottery and kill something. Lot's of dumbsh!ts out there hike in several miles, kill something, and then are physically/mentally unprepared for the tremendous amount of work it takes to get a carcass back to the vehicle. Know your limitations


He's not wrong. My first Uinta's bull was several miles up in snow. I had exercised and built up endurance all year for the hunt, and was up in an area that the only other hunters were on horseback. (and looked at me like I was crazy) I got the job done, but it took all day and well into the night. But, I knew what I was getting into. And at the end I was still saying I was never going to hunt elk again because it was so much work. Luckily I must have a bad memory because I was out in the same area the next year. I've also learned the value of having a good sled or game cart for the second trip.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

2full said:


> In the late 80's I shot a 2 point (unfortunately I hit it in the butt as he was running ).
> When I went to pick it up, the owner of the shop kept saying.......that was a big nice buck....
> I got back two boxes of meat from that deer. Where the year before I got back a single box from a nice 4 point I shot thru the lungs. He had 3 or 4 guys cutting for him and they were processing a LOT of deer. You do not get your own deer for sure from some of them.
> 
> And to top it off......I found 3 packages of lamb in with my deer meat with somebody else's name stamped on it !!


The nice thing about the shop that I'll drop game meat off every now and then is that they weigh the meat while you are standing there. It doesn't matter if it is boned, or whole the weight is written down on the receipt. It does cost you more if the bones are still in it since they charge the processing fee based on the weight that you bring in, so those bones will cost you a few dollars.

The one time that I got ticked off at them was when I told them that I didn't want any fat in the ground meat, I planned to use it for jerky and other processed meat that I'll do myself. Four months later after I picked up the meat I opened up a package of ground burger to discover beef fat in it. There wasn't much that I could do after that amount of time.

Now if I found a few packages of lamb in with the rest of the meat I would count that as a bonus.


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## Red_Ryder (Aug 1, 2021)

Sounds like a lot of nightmares with shops. So where do you guys suggest taking it. I would like a place in Utah or Slc county.


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## 67015 (Jan 29, 2021)

Red_Ryder said:


> Sounds like a lot of nightmares with shops. So where do you guys suggest taking it. I would like a place in Utah or Slc county.



Honestly meyers in draper has a bad history and alot of people don't like it, ive taken probably 7 animals in there and never had a bad experience. Im going to Thompsons now tho as I moved to tooele County and alot closer to it


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

Red_Ryder said:


> Sounds like a lot of nightmares with shops. So where do you guys suggest taking it. I would like a place in Utah or Slc county.


If you want steaks/ roasts DYI. Throw the scraps in a pile and take it somewhere to be ground (if you don't want to DYI). I'm not sure how guys make a multi day project out of it.
If all you want is burger just take the whole thing in and get what you get.

Disclaimer: We seldom do burger. Save the scrap from multiple animals and do it all at once if that is what you want.


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## jewbacca (Jan 27, 2020)

Does anybody carry cut resistant gloves in their kill kit? They're cheap and light, and I don't want to risk a deep cut from working tired. I keep a pair in my kill kit. (I'm a total noob, so genuinely curious if anyone else does this.)


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## Wasatch_Outdoors (Aug 19, 2019)

jewbacca said:


> Does anybody carry cut resistant gloves in their kill kit? They're cheap and light, and I don't want to risk a deep cut from working tired. I keep a pair in my kill kit. (I'm a total noob, so genuinely curious if anyone else does this.)


I haven't before now, but that's not a bad idea at all


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## DIRTYS6X6 (May 19, 2021)

Kill kit? Is that my old timer pocket knife? The only thing that i can do with gloves on is pee my pants and i dont need gloves for that. 

Good luck hope you need them this weekend.


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## jewbacca (Jan 27, 2020)

Glove just goes on the non-cutting hand. Hopefully not this weekend . Only hunting rifle this year.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

jewbacca said:


> Does anybody carry cut resistant gloves in their kill kit? They're cheap and light, and I don't want to risk a deep cut from working tired. I keep a pair in my kill kit. (I'm a total noob, so genuinely curious if anyone else does this.)


A “kill kit”? Really? Some of you have been watching too many influencer pack dumps on YouTube and it really shows.

take your time, pay attention and focus on what you’re doing. A good knife, game bags and some rope is all you’d ever need.


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## jewbacca (Jan 27, 2020)

MooseMeat said:


> A “kill kit”? Really? Some of you have been watching too many influencer pack dumps on YouTube and it really shows.
> 
> take your time, pay attention and focus on what you’re doing. A good knife, game bags and some rope is all you’d ever need.


It's what they call it on Elk101. Come on man, this is poor taste. I openly admit I have little experience, there's no need to belittle.


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## MooseMeat (Dec 27, 2017)

jewbacca said:


> It's what they call it on Elk101.


Called it.

these same influencers are teaching new hunters how to be a victim and host a pitty party any chance they get.

I wasn’t belittling you, you’ll know when that happens. I was giving you advice. But if you want to carry around a bunch of useless chit in your day pack that those clowns are paid to promote on their little videos, go right ahead. After 100+ Animals that I’ve cut up on the mountain, I’m telling you that all you really need is the basics to successfully and safely get the job done. The rest is just added weight to what you have to pack around


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## jewbacca (Jan 27, 2020)

As far as I'm aware, Elk101 and Corey Jacobsen are fairly well respected. Feel free to disagree if you wish, but many seasoned hunters have recommended Elk101 to me. All I have in my "kill kit" is my knife, tag, game bags, and gloves. Which of those items do you feel are useless? 

Belittling or condescending. Choose your adjective.


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## Critter (Mar 20, 2010)

You quickly learn where not to place your off hand when there is a sharp knife in the other. 

In over 50 years of hunting and cleaning animals I can say that I have never cut myself with a knife when working around a animal. Cleaning, skinning, and butchering.

Now my brother in law was a different person. I lent him a knife a number of times and each time he managed to cut himself. The first time he cut his arm. But the last time was after I sharpened all of his knifes that he kept in the camper. He sliced a finger to the bone and didn't even realize it until he saw the ham that he was cutting on had a dark red substance on it.


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

Critter said:


> You quickly learn where not to place your off hand when there is a sharp knife in the other.


Ain't that the truth!!!


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## Irish Lad (Jun 3, 2008)

jewbacca said:


> Does anybody carry cut resistant gloves in their kill kit? They're cheap and light, and I don't want to risk a deep cut from working tired. I keep a pair in my kill kit. (I'm a total noob, so genuinely curious if anyone else does this.)


Used them when I worked for the phone company, when cutting old lead cable. It was mandatory.


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## 3arabians (Dec 9, 2014)

Critter said:


> You quickly learn where not to place your off hand when there is a sharp knife in the other.
> 
> In over 50 years of hunting and cleaning animals I can say that I have never cut myself with a knife when working around a animal. Cleaning, skinning, and butchering.
> 
> Now my brother in law was a different person. I lent him a knife a number of times and each time he managed to cut himself. The first time he cut his arm. But the last time was after I sharpened all of his knifes that he kept in the camper. He sliced a finger to the bone and didn't even realize it until he saw the ham that he was cutting on had a dark red substance on it.


That’s funny. I’m a hybrid of you and your brother in law. In 30 years of hunting and cutting up about 30 animals of my own not to mention others I’ve helped on I have not cut myself. I’ve nicked myself a few times but never anything serious. 

On the other hand, around the house I’m known as a danger to myself with knife in hand. I’ve sliced or stabbed my hands many times between cutting the obnoxious bands off my kids Christmas or birthday presents, slicing a brisket fresh off the traeger and a number of other mishaps with beer on board. Every time my oldest daughter see’s me pick up a knife at home she laughs and says “careful dad”. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

MooseMeat said:


> A “kill kit”? Really? Some of you have been watching too many influencer pack dumps on YouTube and it really shows.
> 
> take your time, pay attention and focus on what you’re doing. *A good knife, game bags and some rope is all you’d ever need*.


Would your comment in bold equal the definition of a kit?

1.
a set of articles or equipment needed for a specific purpose.
"a first-aid kit"


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## bowguyonly (Dec 31, 2018)

MooseMeat said:


> A “kill kit”? Really? Some of you have been watching too many influencer pack dumps on YouTube and it really shows.
> 
> take your time, pay attention and focus on what you’re doing. A good knife, game bags and some rope is all you’d ever need.


If I call it a "slay" kit am I accepted? I just want acceptance. 🙏
Time to slay! Get the slay kit ready, we slayed today!


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## MWScott72 (May 23, 2011)

"On the other hand, around the house I’m known as a danger to myself with knife in hand. I’ve sliced or stabbed my hands many times between cutting the obnoxious bands off my kids Christmas or birthday presents, slicing a brisket fresh off the traeger and a number of other mishaps with beer on board. Every time my oldest daughter see’s me pick up a knife at home she laughs and says “careful dad”."

Jake-
Your comment made all the sense in the world when you threw in "beer". Some of the college stories I could tell... 😉😁


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## middlefork (Nov 2, 2008)

MWScott72 said:


> "On the other hand, around the house I’m known as a danger to myself with knife in hand. I’ve sliced or stabbed my hands many times between cutting the obnoxious bands off my kids Christmas or birthday presents, slicing a brisket fresh off the traeger and a number of other mishaps with beer on board. Every time my oldest daughter see’s me pick up a knife at home she laughs and says “careful dad”."
> 
> Jake-
> Your comment made all the sense in the world when you threw in "beer". Some of the college stories I could tell... 😉😁


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## taxidermist (Sep 11, 2007)

If you want to fill a tag every time out....Leave your pack with all your essentials in the truck and head out for a "look see". You know, "I'm just going to hike up to the edge of the canyon and see if anything is there". That's about the time all he!! brakes loose and you wind up shooting a bull. Now you have to head back to the truck, (1/4 mile away) grab the pack and start the process. Now your 30 minutes behind in time and the animal is starting the rigor and bloat may have began. Of course, its laying in the sun to add time against you. 

I'd say 50% of the elk I've shot have happened in this scenario. Oh ya, your all alone to boot.


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