# 4x4 Skull plate



## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Found a skull plate with hair and antlers still on it today. If you shot a deer with rifle, muzzy or bow this year in the Diamond Fork/Hobble Creek area and couldn't find it, try and describe exactly what the rack looked like and I may have something for you. There are "extras" on this rack... so you'll have to be pretty precise. If its nobodys, then I'll hang it myself after a while. 8)


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## Huge29 (Sep 17, 2007)

Maybe I have totally misunderstood your post, if so, please forgive me, otherwise isn't it illegal to pick up said skull plate as it had antlers attached?


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## Flyfishn247 (Oct 2, 2007)

It is in Utah, but I know under certain circumstances the DWR has allowed peple to keep their find. I would definitely contact the DWR and let them know you have it and where you found it.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Huge29 said:


> Maybe I have totally misunderstood your post, if so, please forgive me, otherwise isn't it illegal to pick up said skull plate as it had antlers attached?


No, you didn't misunderstand me. I thought about what you said as I packed it back to my truck and thought you know,.... screw it... I've moved em, I'm not going back into where I found them to leave them there, so.... I'm just taking them home. I suppose I could have just cut the antlers off and called it a shed.... but at the time, I thought hey, cool.... something I've never found before and I was too busy admiring the nice typical, pretty wide (I think) rack..... should have sat on it and thought about it some more I guess. Its a cool find, I'll call the DWR and let em know what I've got and if they want it that bad, I'll let em know where they can find me. It had been there for a while... skull all bleached out and most of it missing.... the antlers are pretty white too.... so I'm not sure if its this years or not. It certainly was not in a spot any normal person would walk up on it and be all hey, look, somebody's deer. I was way in the thick of some nasty oakbrush, cussing up a storm, sweating and ticked off, and stumbled on what I'm guessing was an animal kill.... you know, the bones scattered over quite a ways. Who knows though..... if somebody describes it.... I'm serious about giving them their set of antlers and letting them throw their tag on it.


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

riverrat77 see what you went and did, you broke the code of the almighty hunter.
I would have done the same as you.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

sagebrush said:


> riverrat77 see what you went and did, *you broke the code of the almighty hunter*.
> I would have done the same as you.


No, what he did was *break the law*. :roll:

PRO


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

Oh boy here we go. You might as well have asked us all to change our offencive avitarts RR77.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Cuff me and take me away.... 8) Actually, I'll just walk up on the hill, chuck the antlers out somewhere and let somebody else deal with the grief.....  NOT!!! I found em, and I'll report it. I'd guess that more than likely, as bleached out as these are, the DWR won't give a rats about em. Its not like I'm hiding the "General"'s cousin on my porch or something. Thanks for the support and advice guys.... I'm honestly not that concerned about it. If they really have an issue with me finding old antlers and taking them home, then we've all got bigger problems. Why aren't folks who are really breaking the laws and taking our trophy animals being taken down. I'm just a guy who lucked into a cool rack.... I've walked that same hill probably three times this year and cruised right by. Unless I had been looking for the fastest way down, I'd never have gone into that patch of oakbrush... and nobody else would either. I do hope somebody claims them and at the same time.... I don't. I'd love to have them around the house.... might even get to put them on the wall if I get a nice base for em. 8)


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

huntducksordietrying said:


> Oh boy here we go. You might as well have asked us all to change our offencive avitarts RR77.


Yours offends me.... I haven't shot a Redhead that nice yet.  Just kidding... I was aware of the holy roller storm I was about to unleash.... kinda like shaking a bees nest with the entrance next to your ear.... but I'm the kind of guy who doesn't mind that and guys can say what they want and it probably won't change what I choose to do. Let em bark.... if it gets out of control the mods will apply the shock collar and quiet things down. :lol:


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> huntducksordietrying said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy here we go. You might as well have asked us all to change our offencive avitarts RR77.
> ...


Oh no its cool. I like to read how some people react. I would like to ride shotgun with guys like pro and when he goes 56 in a 55 I will quite abruptly remind him that he is breaking the law.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Breaking the law is breaking the law, for someone who cares so much about wildlife I would have expected a little more respect. Yes, it is something that is harmless and I am sure the DWR could care less. If it was that big of a deal for you, and you wanted to keep the skull you should have called the DWR in the first place. 

I am glad we have guys like PRO, who are here to help keep us inline


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## sagebrush (Sep 8, 2007)

oh boy :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I am glad that we have people who know what to do if you collect antlers with the skull still attached. Its good to know that I need to notify the DWR... I wasn't aware of that. However, I don't need folks from the forum to keep me in line. I'll make sure and post pictures immediately if the DWR calls on me to give it up. 8) I'll even get pictures of "Officer Friendly" if they feel the need to come all the way out to pick them up. Maybe I should post a picture of my "virtual reality" guy off of 12 Volts cool site holding the antlers... since thats apparently where I fit in now. :lol: I'm seriously not sweating this.... but if I'm supposed to quit picking up antlers because it shows a lack of respect for wildlife on my part.... well, I consider that laughable. Ummmm it was a pile of dead and decaying bones and fur... actually, the only fur left was a small strip around the base of the antler. :shock: There wasn't much left to respect. :lol: Seriously folks.... do we sometimes take ourselves a little too serious with the whole "hammer of the DWR" act? I know I've done it before sometimes, but its curiously entertaining to be on this side of the ball this time.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Comparing going 56 in a 55 zone to taking antlers attached to a skull w/o a permit is nonsenseical. There are very good reasons for this law. I didn't write it, but I dang sure like it. You can thank the poachers we have for this law, and those who seem to pick which wildlife laws to follow. Make you cute little snide comments about me or other sportsmen for pointing out the *fact* that *you* broke the law, knowingly or not. I merely pointed out the *facts*, then you and others decided to act like children. I NEVER suggested having you turned in for what I assumed what an unintentional mistake, apparently you could give a rip about laws that are set to *protect wildlife*. Nice! :evil:

PRO


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

A really nice 3x3 got hit the other day outside of my work....when I called the DWR to ask if I could keep the head....they laughed at me. The answer was a strict NO. I told them that I had heard that if I call them they would more than likely let me keep it. The lady on the other end of the phone LAUGHED at me and said that whomever told me this was just full of crap.......so, riverrat, maybe you should just do what ever you think is ethical and right and just not mention it on this forum....you're gonna get two different sides no matter what you decide to do.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm also glad they have the rule or people would poach a buck and hang the horns in a cedar tree and return to get them later and tell people they found them. The DWR might question you about how you found them or where you found them. I guess it just depends on how old they are, but they dont sound that old if they still have the hair attached. They might even try to pin you for poaching the animal you never know, but what would you do with them?


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

You can take the boy out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the boy!!!!!


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

utfireman said:


> I am glad we have guys like PRO, who are here to help keep us inline


???
[attachment=1:1gzo1oai]badboy.jpg[/attachment:1gzo1oai]
I have been a naughty fireman. I wish PRO would keep me in-line. Punish me PRO! PUNISH ME!!!

[attachment=0:1gzo1oai]whip_crack.jpg[/attachment:1gzo1oai]
You've been a BAD BAD BOY! Now come and get your whoopin!

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> I'm also glad they have the rule or people would poach a buck and hang the horns in a cedar tree and return to get them later and tell people they found them. The DWR might question you about how you found them or where you found them. I guess it just depends on how old they are, but they dont sound that old if they still have the hair attached. They might even try to pin you for poaching the animal you never know, but what would you do with them?


Let em try.... I suppose I might oughta mention the two fly fishermen that I'm pretty sure saw me coming down the hill with the antlers... oh.. that and I had a shotgun with lead shot on me that day. I'd love for them to find any shot holes in the bones, antlers or any expended shot shells on the ground in the area. They'd be in for a long search. :lol: Childish comments Pro?? Not hardly... merely a reaction to some insinuation that I'm out to take advantage of wildlife, intentionally violate laws to protect wildlife (I seriously doubt this deer minded the laws at this point) or anything else that some might deem "unethical". I'm pretty close to positive, I'm not the only one that has walked off the hill with a skull or two, perhaps even sporting antlers. I'm probably one of the few that has posted up about it offering the antlers to the person (if there is one) that shot and lost this particular deer. Yep, I'm a real violater... better watch out for folks like me who could just care less about whats in statute. Please.... waste that stuff on somebody it will actually affect. I know what I do and how I do it... and as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with what I did. The only thing I DIDN'T know was that I needed to notify the DWR of what I had... and that will be done promptly on Tuesday. If they want them, then I'll hand em on over.... funny thing... nobody made nearly the stink about the tiny skull I found with small two point antlers on it earlier this year.... or did that not matter nearly as much because it was just a two point? :roll: When people make cracks about me being a city boy... I just laugh it off. Growing up in a valley with two towns and a total population of about 300 people sure makes me big city doesn't it?? Again, waste that crap on somebody it actually has some relevance to.... I'm about as far from a city boy as you'll likely ever come across. Just because I have hunted big game for ONE season hardly makes me city... but think what you want.... hurry and buzz on out of that bee's nest so I can enjoy my honeycomb. :lol:


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

riverrat, do you have an old unused tag?
cut the notches and hang it on the wall.

just the fact that this has ruffled a few feathers makes my day!

i know the what the proc says, and i agree to a point. 
but other states allow it, not that it makes it legal here. but why not, *does this rule actually stop poaching?* even slow it down? a poacher will poach no matter what law they pass, 
*THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED POACHERS*

i'd probably have kept it too,
i found a really nice 6x6 bull 2 weeks ago, it has been dead at least 1 year. i want to take them but haven't.

i would worry about brown semi fresh horns, but bleached white. i say fair game.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

rifle666 said:


> riverrat, do you have an old unused tag?
> cut the notches and hang it on the wall.
> 
> just the fact that this has ruffled a few feathers makes my day!


You know... I did have an old deer tag around here... I think I threw it away though when I didn't even go hunt. Normally I'd get a kick out of ruffling a few feathers too... but that wasn't my intention this time, so its kind of bittersweet comedy. :? :lol:


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## huntducksordietrying (Sep 21, 2007)

o-||


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

WOW !! This could be learning experience for a lot of people !!

RR77...all *Pro* did was say it was *Breaking the law !!* And the man gets attacked !! I know you have had High Regard for Pro through the years....he didn't attack you, he merely stated the facts...
I could imagine the DWR would like to check DNA, age, time and cause of death to determine if it was killed in a legal hunt or poached out of season...or even of old age...kinda like CSI..
Pro.... RR77 has stated he did not know the laws on 'sheds'. I believe the man when he say's he will call the authority's on Tuesday morn. In my mind, an honest mistake. One that RR77 has to deal with himself.

The way you two behave....I'm *shocked!!!*. :shock: :shock:

Let us know the results RR77....It will interesting to hear..


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

.45 said:


> WOW !! This could be learning experience for a lot of people !!
> 
> RR77...all *Pro* did was say it was *Breaking the law !!* And the man gets attacked !! I know you have had High Regard for Pro through the years....he didn't attack you, he merely stated the facts...
> I could imagine the DWR would like to check DNA, age, time and cause of death to determine if it was killed in a legal hunt or poached out of season...or even of old age...kinda like CSI..
> ...


45, I do respect Pro... and had no intention of attacking him. Maybe it was the bold type that got me to respond the way I did... nah, probably not. I just posted about it saying I'd give it up to whoever.... I knew I'd probably get laid into about it by somebody. I made my comment about cuffing me over it in jest.... it wasn't a cheap shot. I'm pretty sure that Pro was reacting to the comment about the "hunters ethic" or something like that... not the fact that I found the skull. As far as I'm concerned, its all good with Pro and I.... its always fun to scrap once in a while with somebody you know can handle it and give it right back... but like I said, that was not my intention when I posted this. So..... I guess at this point.... it sounds like the DWR may take the antlers.... so I'll just post pics anyway and the unlucky hunter can claim them from the DWR.  If they do let me keep the skull, then I'll make sure and let you guys know.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Skull,

How did you know that I like it ruff and painful. That pic of the whip and cowboy hat is a sure turn on!!!!!!


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## Nibble Nuts (Sep 12, 2007)

utfireman said:


> Skull,
> 
> How did you know that I like it ruff and painful. That pic of the whip and cowboy hat is a sure turn on!!!!!!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 
I see you have a sense of humor. I like you, but not in a bondage-whipping sort of way.


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## FROGGER (Oct 1, 2007)

I have learned from experience if you don't have tough skin don't post on these forums... seems that some people cant take a joke, sarcastic remark or different opinion... I actually find it rather amusing and just ask my wife, I enjoy pushing buttons.... :wink: :wink:


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## humpyflyguy (Sep 10, 2007)

Just think RR77, if the DWR determine if this deer was poached and you helped solved the case, you might even get a free tag next year. Or they might try to pin it on you, who knows with those guys what's going to happen. Anyways, congrats on the find, I hope you get to keep them.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> rifle666 said:
> 
> 
> > riverrat, do you have an old unused tag?
> ...


Tag stays with the meat. :wink:


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## soules2007 (Oct 29, 2007)

Just FYI while it is breaking the law, and i have no doudt your intentions are pure. It was a post similar to this that shut down our other forum no? some sort of illegal animal abuse, or perceived rough treatment. Finding sheds and other wildlife trinkets are great but as with drugs the next step becomes to easy, just to say i found it on the mountain. knowing full well you shot it last summer while scouting. Now in no way am i saying you shot this animal but you can see where the argument takes you. And that is the very reason the dwr has those laws in place. To protect us legal game hunters vs the poachers. I think so anyway . Greetings ya all. Dave


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

I believe that is the very reason that many people are piping up here. It's not that anyone thinks Riley is a poacher or a bad person. It's the very reasons that you mentioned. Rules are rules and these ones are specific to things many in here hold as a high priority in life.

Would you haul a few geese over the bag limit out of the swamp? Didn't think so, but this is a "rule" just like bag limits are rules.

I would grind it up into tea and drink it so your manhood can perform well. That way you will have destroyed all of the evidence and benefitted at the same time.


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> I would grind it up into tea and drink it so your manhood can perform well. That way you will have destroyed all of the evidence and benefitted at the same time.


This is ending up to be a good topic !!! ..   ...... Although, Tree, some of us really don't need that kind of 'tea'... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## soules2007 (Oct 29, 2007)

.45 you know how the saying goes " the one who says he does not is the only one that does" HA just hacking on ya. :lol:


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## .45 (Sep 21, 2007)

soules2007 said:


> .45 you know how the saying goes " the one who says he does not is the only one that does" HA just hacking on ya. :lol:


DANG !!! Pass the tea...I gotta share it with my new friend !!!... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

soules2007 said:


> It was a post similar to this that shut down our other forum no?


I think that had to do with beating a dog... how that relates to finding a bunch of bones that just happened to have antlers still attached must be what I'm missing here. Welcome, by the way. :lol: Tree.... thats not what I like in my tea... but thanks for the idea anyway. I do have a pretty thick skin, especially in situations like this where I'm pretty sure folks will try to rain on my parade... but I'm still happy I walked out with the antlers. I just hope the DWR will let me keep them. If not... well, ok. For what its worth, I already have my next step (poaching the elk at the Logan zoo) all planned out. Anyone know how to inject alfalfa with the date rape drug?? I figure if I slip the big guy some "treated" hay, then I can snag the antlers while he sleeps it off. JUST KIDDING!!! Just poking fun at a topic that in my humble opinion has been taken WAY too seriously. :lol:


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

Let me know how that Logan Zoo thing turns out, I've seen him and he's a nice bull! If it works out good for ya I may have to hire you to GUIDE for me on the Lagoon Train Ride...... :wink:


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

Treehugnhuntr said:


> Tag stays with the meat. :wink:


Correct, but what happens when the meat is gone?
the bible says" it shall remain with the largest portion of the animal"
so when the meat is gone does that mean the tag stays with the horns? by the bible YES.

and what happens if you kill a deer/elk on the last night of a hunt, you go back the next day or week and find it. the meat is spoiled. you are allowed to tag out your animal. right ?

and ya it's a law, no skull plates on your sheds, i get it. but how many of you guys have a pile of horns some place? do you have any skull plates on them? you still have the tags? if not your breaking the law right? what about the 30 incher on the wall? still have the tag for him?
probably not.

i have a few in my freezer, leftover from deer long since eaten, but i also have quite a pile of old horns from my granddads place he had tons of them, on barns, in barns ext. i have them in a big pile in my shop, i have no tags for them, is this breaking the law?

I understand why the law was added, BUT HAS IT STOPPED ONE POACHED DEER? i'd bet no.
will it stop a poacher in the future? probably not. so why? 
it is like spitting on the sidewalk, petty lame.


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

I like all of these excuses and the justification...There is a saying that I once heard, and it has always stuck with me.....Justification is like masterbation, you only screw yourself.

The reasoning behind the rules is not impotant. What is important is that we follow the rules. 

Once the season is ended you are not able to tag an animal, I just asked the CO this and I was told to leave it alone.. 

I also know that the Diamond Fork area is a heavy poaching area. While working on a fire up there a couple of years ago there was a very nice deer that we found dead. We called the DWR and they came out to inspect it. They did all of their test, and decided that the buck had indeed been poached. They left the horns there, we asked why and they said that people will shot the deer and then come back later to claim their prize. The only thing that the DWR had to go off was their records and then pictures of the deer. They did say that alot of poachers will post pics of their "findings" later on, after they have claimed their buck, and that is when they get caught.

People make mistake's, it going to happen. But it is how we deal with our mistakes that will seperate the men from the boys.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

Yeah I have heard a few situations like this before. There is a lot of excuses and justifications that he is breaking the law like Utfireman said. There have been several deer poached in the hobble creek/diamond fork area this year. You have got to be totally retarded to go up and get a set of horns with the hair still attached because you never know who is watching to see if someone comes back and claims their prize. 

I guess for some people that is the only way they can get a set of antlers.


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Once the season is ended you are not able to tag an animal, I just asked the CO this and I was told to leave it alone..


NOT TRUE
I have seen a letter signed by the big man himself.
I very good hunting buddy hit a great elk (390-410)on the bow hunt, he then spent the following 9 days looking for it. the hunt ended with no elk. he drove to the div office, told the situation and got the blessings of the DWR to tag and remove his elk or parts. provided
that
1. he did not have a bow,rifle.ext.

he still has not found it and now thinks it survived.
but the letter is signed and as is 100% legal and authentic.

and i did not make 1 single excuse, i asked a few questions.
i know the law and follow it.
read my post please


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Did I point you out and say you the one making excuses? A little sensative are we?

It is all up to your CO for your area. If you get one to sign off on it the great. I was told no you can't tag it.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

coyoteslayer said:


> Yeah I have heard a few situations like this before. There is a lot of excuses and justifications that he is breaking the law like Utfireman said. *There have been several deer poached in the hobble creek/diamond fork area this year*. You have got to be totally retarded to go up and get a set of horns with the hair still attached because you never know who is watching to see if someone comes back and claims their prize.
> 
> I guess for some people that is the only way they can get a set of antlers.


I bet you've "heard" of them... with what, buddies over a few beers? How do you know of the poached deer?? Hearsay again or is it just your attempt to make me feel bad about what I've done?? Or were you or friends of yours the poachers? :roll: I dare say it makes one seem awfully retarded to make assumptions about anothers intelligence just based on the chance finding of a set of antlers. :? Myself and two fly fishermen were the only ones in the area.... I'd bet a lot on that. I'd also bet I was the only human to walk through that particular oak brush hillside in a long, long time. :lol: I call BS on your entire post.... but apparently, if we follow anything you say (which is all ridiculous) I'm a mentally handicapped person because I picked up a set of antlers out there. :| I also agree with what Rifle said....how many of those slinging darts at me for picking them up are wishing I'd posted where I found them so they could go check out the spot for themselves?? How many of those folks still have skull plates and antlers stashed in the garage or hanging on the side of the house? I put NO weight in posts like the quote above.... its guys yapping to hear themselves bark and thats about all the effectiveness or actual merit their post carries. Like I said before, the DWR is more than welcome to investigate me, the site and anything else they want to look into. I've got nothing to hide.... nor would I. Still haven't heard from the "rightful" owner yet... and I doubt I will. If this buck was poached... the poacher certainly would have followed up this buck.... and with these antlers being as old as they are, I seriously doubt that poaching was the cause of death. About finding antlers.... if I actually shed hunted, then I might take your post more seriously than I do. I find plenty of leftover "horn" just by walking around.... why hunt for them when they're not what I'm truly after? I can't eat em.... so I'm not going to go out of my way to find the "leftovers". Sorry if you think thats the only way I can get antlers.... but as with the rest of your post, you'd be wrong. :roll:


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## Red-Grouse (Sep 22, 2007)

I don't post much on the Big game board anymore because of the "ETHICS POLICE" these people set up all high and mighty and pass judgment on folks they don't know and are likely the worlds biggest hypocrites!!!

The way the Law reads if you have a skull plate with horns attached with no tag you are in violation........ SO what happens if I picked up a a skull before the law was enacted????What about those???? What if i picked them up in a neighboring state where it is not illegal to do so but poses them in Utah..... I would bet good money that 90+% of the folks on this board are in violation to this law!!! Yes even the "ETHICS POLICE"!!!

TELL ME ANY OF YOU HAVE NEVER PICKED UP A SKULL PLATE??? what if it is a doe skull plate???? they could have poached her as well and came back to reclaim there trophy!!

THIS LAW DOES NOT DETER POACHING....................period!

Let's see now you "ETHICS GODS" will accuse me of being a dumb city slicker from the front, that is unethical, and disrespectful of poorly written laws......... let the shiz begin! OH and I am likely a poacher as well right :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Nice find RR77 I wish you would post some pics so these guys with the antler envy can droul over your find and go on killing 2 points and wishing for a find like yours!


RR77 your only mistake was posting it here for the EHICS GODS to stew over!!

OUT!


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> I bet you've "heard" of them... with what, buddies over a few beers? How do you know of the poached deer?? Hearsay again or is it just your attempt to make me feel bad about what I've done?? Or were you or friends of yours the poachers? I dare say it makes one seem awfully retarded to make assumptions about anothers intelligence just based on the chance finding of a set of antlers. Myself and two fly fishermen were the only ones in the area.... I'd bet a lot on that. I'd also bet I was the only human to walk through that particular oak brush hillside in a long, long time. I call BS on your entire post.... but apparently, if we follow anything you say (which is all ridiculous) I'm a mentally handicapped person because I picked up a set of antlers out there. I also agree with what Rifle said....how many of those slinging darts at me for picking them up are wishing I'd posted where I found them so they could go check out the spot for themselves?? How many of those folks still have skull plates and antlers stashed in the garage or hanging on the side of the house? I put NO weight in posts like the quote above.... its guys yapping to hear themselves bark and thats about all the effectiveness or actual merit their post carries. Like I said before, the DWR is more than welcome to investigate me, the site and anything else they want to look into. I've got nothing to hide.... nor would I. Still haven't heard from the "rightful" owner yet... and I doubt I will. If this buck was poached... the poacher certainly would have followed up this buck.... and with these antlers being as old as they are, I seriously doubt that poaching was the cause of death. About finding antlers.... if I actually shed hunted, then I might take your post more seriously than I do. I find plenty of leftover "horn" just by walking around.... why hunt for them when they're not what I'm truly after? I can't eat em.... so I'm not going to go out of my way to find the "leftovers". Sorry if you think thats the only way I can get antlers.... but as with the rest of your post, you'd be wrong.


Riverrat, I use to work for the DWR and my source came from them so I would say that I have a pretty good source.   The DWR will ask you about where you found it and from your description it would have been awfully hard to find, but yet it wasnt hard for you to find. Of course not!! Maybe there is more to the story and you better have a good story.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

When I found it... I wasn't even looking for it. :roll: I bet if I had been actually looking, I never would have seen it. If my dog hadn't run right up on it, I'd have walked right by. All I was trying to do was get out of the thick undergrowth I was caught up in while GROUSE HUNTING. Hows that for a story? :lol: If you're trying to scare me with the whole DWR spiel.... you're failing miserably. But I know... to make yourself sound knowledgeable, you had to try. :lol:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> When I found it... I wasn't even looking for it. I bet if I had been actually looking, I never would have seen it. If my dog hadn't run right up on it, I'd have walked right by. All I was trying to do was get out of the thick undergrowth I was caught up in while GROUSE HUNTING. Hows that for a story? If you're trying to scare me with the whole DWR spiel.... you're failing miserably. But I know... to make yourself sound knowledgeable, you had to try.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH THIS IS GETTING GOOD. Dude Im NOT trying to scare you. ISNT this the first time you mentioned your dog and you went GROUSE HUNTING. This story is getting better all the time.


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> No, you didn't misunderstand me. I thought about what you said as I packed it back to my truck and thought you know,.... screw it... I've moved em, I'm not going back into where I found them to leave them there, so.... I'm just taking them home. I suppose I could have just cut the antlers off and called it a shed.... but at the time, I thought hey, cool.... something I've never found before and I was too busy admiring the nice typical, pretty wide (I think) rack..... should have sat on it and thought about it some more I guess. Its a cool find, I'll call the DWR and let em know what I've got and if they want it that bad, I'll let em know where they can find me. It had been there for a while... skull all bleached out and most of it missing.... the antlers are pretty white too.... so I'm not sure if its this years or not. *It certainly was not in a spot any normal person would walk up on it and be all hey, look, somebody's deer. I was way in the thick of some nasty oakbrush, cussing up a storm, sweating and ticked off, and stumbled on what I'm guessing was an animal kill.... you know, the bones scattered over quite a ways. Who knows though..... if somebody describes it.... I'm serious about giving them their set of antlers and letting them throw their tag on it.*




So did the dog find the carcass, but you just failed to mention you had a dog and that you were grouse hunting?????


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Just talked to Karen at the DWR about the antlers. She was very nice, very polite and I was the same. I informed her that while out grouse hunting, my dog ran up on a pile of bones and that when I pulled the antler out of the sage, it had two sides with a skull plate attached. I said... what do I do? Can I keep them, is it illegal, whats the deal on these? She informed me that it was illegal to possess antlers with the skull plate attached so after I talked to her a little bit more, I said thank you and hung up. NOTHING about bringing them in, nothing about "WHY DID YOU PICK THEM UP? DID YOU SHOOT THAT DEER... YOU POACHER?" No, where, when, how or any of that. None of that nonsense.... she was extremely polite through the whole conversation. A few of the self appointed "DWR reps" on here could take a lesson or two from that young lady. Apparently my "story" was good enough so that she didn't feel I was trying to be evasive or trying to hide anything about what had happened. I guess now I take them back up on the hill and leave them, since I can't legally keep them. Funny how a little politeness and honesty goes MILES towards having people in a position of authority return the respect. Anyway, promised I'd call and post what I was told... so there you have it. I'll take pictures of them before I leave them on the hill.... it truly is a pretty nice rack. Anyone know how long it takes for skull plates to rot off and separate from the antlers? Or is this something that will stay attached long after our time capsules from the 20th century have been dug up and reinspected?? :|


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## truemule (Sep 12, 2007)

Rat,
If you don't care just quit entertaining them. Call the DWR let them know like you said, deal with it the isuue and move on. (But not before giving us an update)


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Here you go coyoteslayer.... from my report in the fishing forum... if you look closely, you'll see that I posted that report before I posted up in here that I'd found antlers in the brush. If you look at the pictures below the report, you'll also see a picture of my dog that I had with me that day. Have a good one.



RiverRat77 said:


> I went out today to take a "me" day. I hit one of my favorite small streams for some browns...and actually wound up completing the "trifecta" for this stream. I was actually pleasantly surprised with how the day turned out. It was supposed to be a cast and blast... but the grouse forgot they'd been invited. Oh well.... I started off forgetting my camera at the truck so my first large brown and an exceptional rainbow were only photographed in my memory. I went back to the truck and actually went fishless for a while... then I figured out what the trick was and things began to work. I stopped fishing for a bit and walked some aspen hillsides for grouse, finding none. What I did find though was much cooler to me. I saw a pile of bones... and on closer inspection, found a perfectly preserved 4x4 skull plate. I don't know if it was this years or not... but it still had hair around the base of the antlers. Anyway... I know you're supposed to tag it.... but I didn't. If anyone was hunting deer in the Diamond Fork/Hobble Creek area, shot a deer and lost it and you can tell me exactly what the rack looks like, I've got it for you to claim. I'll give it a week or two and then I'm going to hang it. Anyway, caught some gorgeous browns, cutts and bows and figured out that I really like the "macro" feature on Wendy's new camera. Not quite Quills work, but good fun for me. Enjoy......


Obviously I didn't know the DWR was supposed to be contacted. And... although I knew you're supposed to throw a tag on it.... somehow throwing a "general archery elk" (the only tag I've got in my wallet) tag on it just really seemed like the wrong road to go down. :? That seemed to be a lot more misleading than walking out with a nice rack. Anyway, I talked to the DWR, got my answer and now I know what I need to do.... so, thanks again for the honeycomb... there were sure a lot of bees in that nest. :wink:


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

utfireman


> The only thing that the DWR had to go off was their records and then pictures of the deer. They did say that alot of poachers will post pics of their "findings" later on, after they have claimed their buck, and that is when they get caught.


Riverratt


> I'll take pictures of them before I leave them on the hill.... it truly is a pretty nice rack. Anyone know how long it takes for skull plates to rot off and separate from the antlers? Or is this something that will stay attached long after our time capsules from the 20th century have been dug up and reinspected??


hahahaha yep Utfireman is right. Maybe Karen was just nice to you because she didnt want you to get nervous and head to Mexico.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Maybe you're just waiting for me to PM you with info on where I leave them so you can go claim them. About running to Mexico... or anywhere for that matter.... I'm not going anywhere. 8) Again with the "yappy dog" syndrome.... somehow I think you're just out to bust people's balls about any little miscues or hiccups they have in their actions in the outdoors. What a miserable life to lead... and you say you "worked" for the DWR as in past tense right?? I can see they've made quite an upgrade hiring folks like Karen to represent them. 8)


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Here you go coyoteslayer.... from my report in the fishing forum... if you look closely, you'll see that I posted that report before I posted up in here that I'd found antlers in the brush. If you look at the pictures below the report, you'll also see a picture of my dog that I had with me that day. Have a good one.
> 
> RiverRat77 wrote:
> I went out today to take a "me" day. I hit one of my favorite small streams for some browns...and actually wound up completing the "trifecta" for this stream. I was actually pleasantly surprised with how the day turned out. It was supposed to be a cast and blast... but the grouse forgot they'd been invited. Oh well.... I started off forgetting my camera at the truck so my first large brown and an exceptional rainbow were only photographed in my memory. I went back to the truck and actually went fishless for a while... then I figured out what the trick was and things began to work. I stopped fishing for a bit and walked some aspen hillsides for grouse, finding none. What I did find though was much cooler to me. I saw a pile of bones... and on closer inspection, found a perfectly preserved 4x4 skull plate. I don't know if it was this years or not... but it still had hair around the base of the antlers. Anyway... I know you're supposed to tag it.... but I didn't. If anyone was hunting deer in the Diamond Fork/Hobble Creek area, shot a deer and lost it and you can tell me exactly what the rack looks like, I've got it for you to claim. I'll give it a week or two and then I'm going to hang it. Anyway, caught some gorgeous browns, cutts and bows and figured out that I really like the "macro" feature on Wendy's new camera. Not quite Quills work, but good fun for me. Enjoy......
> ...


Well you just have two stories because you never mentioned anything like this in this thread


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## coyoteslayer (Sep 10, 2007)

> Maybe you're just waiting for me to PM you with info on where I leave them so you can go claim them. About running to Mexico... or anywhere for that matter.... I'm not going anywhere. Again with the "yappy dog" syndrome.... somehow I think you're just out to bust people's balls about any little miscues or hiccups they have in their actions in the outdoors. What a miserable life to lead... and you say you "worked" for the DWR as in past tense right?? I can see they've made quite an upgrade hiring folks like Karen to represent them.


Karen wasnt working there when I did. Jenny is still there and she is very nice also. Scott Root is a very great guy and so is Don Wiley. The reason I don't work there anymore is because I had a car accident. I was a biologist assistant for 5 years. Naw I dont need those antlers. I have 4 bucks being mounted that I killed that mean a lot more to me than some antlers that I just randomly find.

Riverrat, I was just giving you a hard time so just relax and take in a few breathes before you pass out.


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

Of course not.... why would I? I wasn't posting my fishing report in the hunting section. I was letting folks know what I found so the rightful owner (if there really was one) could claim their reward. I'm not out to rip the state off, intentionally mislead or take from the state, or wreak havoc on our wildlife populations... nothing like that. I was informed on what I needed to do to remedy the situation... followed that course of action and am now presented with the answer.... I guess its on me to determine my course of action at this point and I'll do so. Having two different stories had nothing at all to do with this post... and I wouldn't have even thought of it from that angle unless all the "shoot first, ask questions later" keystone cops brought it to my attention. I don't understand how me stating that I was grouse hunting and fishing in the area was relevant in any way to me finding out who had actually killed this deer? It honestly doesn't matter.... I found a rack, walked out with it, found out it was wrong and now go on with life doing what I do. I'll make sure and get pictures the next time I encounter the situation.... maybe I can take a deer out with an arrow fashioned from a fishing rod or something to make it more interesting. :wink:


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

> I'll make sure and get pictures the next time I encounter the situation.... maybe I can take a deer out with an arrow fashioned from a fishing rod or something to make it more interesting.


I definetly want pics of that, just the arrow itself. I have a couple of old bambo fly rods that would make great looking arrows. I think you are on to something. I may take one of these old rods of the wall if you come up with a good design. :mrgreen:

PRO


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## Riverrat77 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'd bet I could fit an insert into the butt end of some of my rods.... or even just split them and fit the arrows in, sealing with Aquaseal (wader repair stuff) to make it even more fishing related. If you used a collapsible rod... you'd have quite the mobile hunting unit. Bart.... thanks for ending this on a kinda humorous note... I meant what I said earlier too. Nothing but respect for you.... so, sorry if you were offended by what I had to say.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

Riverrat77 said:


> I'd bet I could fit an insert into the butt end of some of my rods.... or even just split them and fit the arrows in, sealing with Aquaseal (wader repair stuff) to make it even more fishing related. If you used a collapsible rod... you'd have quite the mobile hunting unit. Bart.... thanks for ending this on a kinda humorous note... I meant what I said earlier too. Nothing but respect for you.... so, sorry if you were offended by what I had to say.


We be cool my man, we be cool! 8) I never intended it to go any further than point out what the law was. When I was younger and didn't know the law, I did the very same thing with an elk skull that was from a old bull. I got rid of the skull about 4 years ago when I realized it was illegal, I took it back to exact location where I found it. I went back a few weeks later and it was gone. I had it for 3 years, so I am guessing another passer-by stumbled on it like I did years before.

I believe my bambo rods(1940's era) are of somewhat value, so maybe I will wit for you to 'perfect' your arrow making skills before I offer one up. 

PRO


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## EPEK (Sep 11, 2007)

I sat back and watched this develop and just watched it kind of get a little wierd. No one likes to be critisized, and there is nothing that will dig someone into a trench deaper than telling someone they are wrong. Other people feel uncomfortable when they see someone getting piled up on, so they feel that they have to come to the rescue, but a lot of true principles were missed here in an argument that wasn't all that heated, but opinions were forged even tighter for right or wrong. There are a lot of laws that I disagree with and some I won't obey on principle alone. But no matter what you think about this law, all I had to do was to put my head around the fact that the law was put in place to allow another way to prosecute a poacher. I truley believe that rr77 came upon this skull and had no involvement whatsoever in its demise, and I think that a large percentage of found skulls would not be poached animals, but poachers are greasy grimey people, and until I came to my own understanding of the purposes of this law, I would pick up as many as I found. Now, I will never do anything that associates me with poaching in any way whatsoever. RR77, good job on the phone call and the conversation, and dumping them back to a place that will provide squirel food, and welcome to the newly educated and very ethical position of non-poacher associated type people. Now for the people that get on the ethic police, just remember, the same back at you. Where is the line, when do you decide to cross it. If you see someone doing something unethical like say murder, do you side with the people that are against taking human life, or do you side with the murderer and say, "these people have no right to critisize you for your actions, it's a free country, have at it." I know murder is a far extreme example from say what is the proper distance to shoot etc, and I have very little to say on those types of ethical lines, but ethical pursuit simply means utilizing a strategy that is with in the law and good moral character, and ethical kill means doing the best you can to ensure a swift and moral experation date.


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

Thack said:


> I don't post much on the Big game board anymore because of the "ETHICS POLICE" these people set up all high and mighty and pass judgment on folks they don't know and are likely the worlds biggest hypocrites!!!
> 
> The way the Law reads if you have a skull plate with horns attached with no tag you are in violation........ SO what happens if I picked up a a skull before the law was enacted????What about those???? What if i picked them up in a neighboring state where it is not illegal to do so but poses them in Utah..... I would bet good money that 90+% of the folks on this board are in violation to this law!!! Yes even the "ETHICS POLICE"!!!
> 
> ...


Finally!
this is a great post!
Thanks Thack


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

No a great post was the one just left by EPEK....


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## rifle666 (Sep 25, 2007)

:roll: ethics police


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## chet (Sep 7, 2007)

I remeber all of the locations..... but not sure which skull went where........... if I put them back in the wrong places will it effect the genetics of the herd? 8)


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## utfireman (Sep 7, 2007)

Your right, I do care about what goes on. Call it what you want. Remember that quote on justification.........

River made a mistake, it happens. But it's how he acted once he found out about it. We live and learn. That's called maturity. I am sure River is a an ok guy and meant no harm.

With that being said, I am done with this post.


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## proutdoors (Sep 24, 2007)

rifle666 said:


> Thack said:
> 
> 
> > I don't post much on the Big game board anymore because of the "ETHICS POLICE" these people set up all high and mighty and pass judgment on folks they don't know and are likely the worlds biggest hypocrites!!!
> ...


Funny stuff, I suppose I am part of the "ETHICS GODS", for mentioning rr77 broke the law, not merely some 'code of ethics'. I said he broke the law, then the "do whatever you want to" crowd jumped all over me. Talk about hypocrites. Me and riverrat are fine, the rest of you that say just ignore the *LAW*, have a good day!

PRO


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## SteepNDeep (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't know how this law is enforced, but if I run into anybody that has a set that is anything over a year old- you can tell, then unless I had some reason to suspect them I wouldn't turn them in. I have picked up a few old white ones that were basically dried out bones. 

Anyone can tell if it was meant to be poached or if they are the result of an old sun dried death. If it is some ridiculous trophy deer than I may begin to be suspect, but some average four point or lower wouldn't turn my head. 

BTW - there are sets in every 4th piece of ground out in the Utah countryside. They are on barns, sheds and even in the garden. Oh yes- all legally killed I'm 100% sure, but rotting bones are just that.


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## Treehugnhuntr (Sep 7, 2007)

So how does one go about informing someone that what they did is against the law, without offending those who condone illegal activities and get their panties in a knot for *mentioning, not attacking* someone who was/is unaware that what they did was illegal?

No one busted Riley's balls. We all know he is a good guy and fairly new to hunting and regulations.

It is illegal, like it or not, it's the law.

I personally think it should be ok to rid the gene pool of certain human beings at my discretion. Should that be one that I liken to "Everyone speeds" or "that's a dumb law"? That's why there are laws, because no one's ethics or morals are the same, so society agrees on certain guidelines that we are policed with. Of course, everything is a conspiracy. :wink:


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## Bowdacious (Sep 16, 2007)

o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-|| o-||


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