# Thoughts on 6.5mm creedmor



## outdoorser

So I was about to ask this is in Huge29's thread about reloading the 6.5, but I figured I better start a new thread since that was in the reloading recipes subforum plus I didn't want to hijack. SO to my question:

What do you guys think about the 6.5mm creedmor as a hunting round?
I'd like to hear opinions on everything about the cartridge, mostly for hunting though. ACTUALLY, any 6.5mm (Grendel, WSM, etc)


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## Huge29

I have decided to get a Creed based on what I have learned on it from the Long Range Shooters of Utah FB page. You will likely find more info here https://www.facebook.com/groups/longrangeshootersofutah/


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## Loke

The Creedmoor is designed as a long range target round, so no hunting rifles (as in of a reasonable weight to carry over hill and dale) are chambered for it. The Grendel is an Alexander Arms proprietary round designed for the AR15 platform. Good luck with reasonably priced ammo, cases, and reloading dies. No such commercial offering as the 6.5 WSM, but the 264 Win Mag will fill the bill quite nicely. The 6.5 with the most commercial success in a hunting platform would be the 260 Remington. The 6.5-284 is there somewhere, loaded by Norma (I think). You might find a used Remington 600 or 660 chambered for the 6.5 Remington Magnum, but factory brass is REALLY scarce. Another choice with the same ballistic potential is the 6.5X55 Swede. And I've got three of them shelf down at the shop. Two are Howa 1500s, and the other is a really sweet Browning 1885 Low Wall. The 260, Grendel, Creedmoor and Swede are ballistic twins. The 264, 6.5 Rem, and 6.5-284 will give you a couple hundred feet a second over the others.


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## Cooky

Weatherby chambers the Vanguard S2 in 6.5 Creedmoor. They claim 7-1/4 ponds.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action-Centerfire-Rifles%7C/pc/104792580/c/105522480/sc/105523380/Weatherby174-Vanguard174-Series-2-Rifle/1370484.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbolt-action-centerfire-rifles%2Fweatherby%2F_%2FN-1102332%2B1000005120%2FNe-1000005120%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104792580%253Bcat105522480%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104792580%3Bcat105522480%3Bcat105523380

Ruger does the Hawkeye Predator and Savage does a Predator model also. Both are listed at about 8 pounds.


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## swbuckmaster

I think this savage 6.5 creedmore is arround 6.5 lbs.


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## Cooky

swbuckmaster said:


> I think this savage 6.5 creedmore is arround 6.5 lbs.
> View attachment 32474


I remember when Savage couldn't make a pretty rifle. Times have changed.


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## Bax*

I was worried this round would take the route of the .17 HM2 and have watched it over the years and have come to the conclusion that it is a viable round to purchase at this point. And by viable, I mean common enough to ensure brass / ammo availability. 

I think it has potential for medium sized game and under and have seen several guys use it for long range coyotes on other forums. 

The 6.5 bullet is appealing for long range shooters due to high ballistic coefficients compared to most other caliber offerings of similar bullet weights. 

I am also seeing more and more bullet options as time passes and think you could make a nice hunting rifle out of it that Best of the West would be jealous of.


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## swbuckmaster

Cooky
Im with ya. I hate the look of their bolts on all their rifles except this one.


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## Springville Shooter

The Savage Ultra Light Hunter is absolutely a hunting gun and combined with the Creedmore has proven very effective for 2 of my shooting friends. 130-140 grain bullets with low end recoil and good accuracy. What more do you need?------SS


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## outdoorser

What about its "killing ability" so to speak. Is it fine for deer and antelope and the like?
Is elk pushing it?


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## gwailow

outdoorser said:


> What about its "killing ability" so to speak. Is it fine for deer and antelope and the like?
> Is elk pushing it?


This all depends on bullet choice. If you are using the same "Match" type bullet that many of us use for matches, shooting steel or punching paper(Berger, SMK, Match Burner, etc.) then I would say no. You can probably get away fine with pronghorn, however for deer, elk, etc. I prefer a monolithic bullet like the Barnes LRX 127gr or even a Nosler Acubond. Something designed for hunting.


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## outdoorser

gwailow said:


> This all depends on bullet choice. If you are using the same "Match" type bullet that many of us use for matches, shooting steel or punching paper(Berger, SMK, Match Burner, etc.) then I would say no. You can probably get away fine with pronghorn, however for deer, elk, etc. I prefer a monolithic bullet like the Barnes LRX 127gr or even a Nosler Acubond. Something designed for hunting.


Oh and by the way I don't handload (as of now) so what would my options be with factory ammo?


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## Huge29

outdoorser said:


> Oh and by the way I don't handload (as of now) so what would my options be with factory ammo?


1-Make some friends who do.
2-Buy reloading equipment.

I looked at SW today and couldn't see any factory loads today for the CM.


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## Fishhuntthendie

Just my two bits....I love the 6.5 caliber for deer and antelope probably more than any other single caliber and I hunt with them a lot and I also shoot just about everything with them..targets, steel, varmints, etc.. I have a couple of .260 Remingtons (very similar ballistics to the Creed), 6.5-284 and a 264 Win Mag. Personally, if I were like you and just starting out to look for a 6.5 for hunting, I would go straight to the 6.5-284 and forget about everything else to include the Creed. Just my preference but there are some good reasons for this. Lapua brass is the best made...8-10 reloads with hot loads and it is readily available in the 6.5-284. There is a reason that the 6.5-284 has been a winner in long range shooting circles for a very long time as the case/powder/primer/heavy bullet combination just seems to work well and it is a super accurate round. I personally shoot 140 Bergers out of mine at 2950 fps and this is a deadly combination. For big stuff the 130 TSX from Barnes and the 130 Nosler Accubond also shoot really well in this cartridge. I have friends who use this load for elk as well...but personally...I like something a lot bigger for elk. However, for deer and antelope I believe this is a perfect combination and all my shots to date with this combination have been DRT (Dead right there) The velocity gain/20+ grains of powder in the 264 Mag is not really worth it and the .260/Creed is just a bit lacking in umph in my opinion and the 6.5-284 is the perfect in between cartridge. Build it on long action so you can seat the bullets out far enough and stuff the case full of powder (H4350/RL-17) and you will have an awesome 6.5 hunter. Savage/ER Shaw and maybe a few others now offer the 6.5-284 in a factory offering. One last benefit is there is probably more load data available on the 6.5-284 from the long range target shooters than all of the other 6.5 calibers combined and this will help you in getting loads developed. I would not go with any 6.5 if you are not into reloading and willing to tinker with loads...otherwise, you won't really get the benefits available from shooting a 6.5. If you end up with a 6.5-284 PM me and I will share some pet loads, suggestions, etc. that I have found from loading this round for the past 15 years or so. I have never seen anyone get rid of a 6.5-284 once they hunted with one. Good luck.


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## Springville Shooter

Keep the shots at a reasonable range, use good bullets, and you will kill every elk you hit in the vitals with any 6.5 from the CM up to the Win Mag. For hunting, I like the 6.5-06 and its Ackley improved version. I've got an old friend who has a 6.5-06 AI that was built in the 70's on a Remington 721 action. He will not hunt with anything else. The dozen or so elk he has killed never complained that they weren't hit with a 300 mag.----SS


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## hazmat

I shot my cow elk at 340 yards with my 6.5 one shot and she was done. I love this cartridge. I have a very hard time picking up my 300 um any more. For what its worth


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## Huge29

hazmat said:


> I shot my cow elk at 340 yards with my 6.5 one shot and she was done. I love this cartridge. I have a very hard time picking up my 300 um any more. For what its worth


Which cannon are you using?


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## Longgun

fishhuntthendie said:


> just my two bits....i love the 6.5 caliber for deer and antelope probably more than any other single caliber and i hunt with them a lot and i also shoot just about everything with them..targets, steel, varmints, etc.. I have a couple of .260 remingtons (very similar ballistics to the creed), 6.5-284 and a 264 win mag. Personally, if i were like you and just starting out to look for a 6.5 for hunting, i would go straight to the 6.5-284 and forget about everything else to include the creed. Just my preference but there are some good reasons for this. Lapua brass is the best made...8-10 reloads with hot loads and it is readily available in the 6.5-284. There is a reason that the 6.5-284 has been a winner in long range shooting circles for a very long time as the case/powder/primer/heavy bullet combination just seems to work well and it is a super accurate round. I personally shoot 140 bergers out of mine at 2950 fps and this is a deadly combination. For big stuff the 130 tsx from barnes and the 130 nosler accubond also shoot really well in this cartridge. I have friends who use this load for elk as well...but personally...i like something a lot bigger for elk. However, for deer and antelope i believe this is a perfect combination and all my shots to date with this combination have been drt (dead right there) the velocity gain/20+ grains of powder in the 264 mag is not really worth it and the .260/creed is just a bit lacking in umph in my opinion and the 6.5-284 is the perfect in between cartridge. *build it on long action so you can seat the bullets out far enough and stuff the case full of powder (h4350/rl-17) and you will have an awesome 6.5* hunter. Savage/er shaw and maybe a few others now offer the 6.5-284 in a factory offering. One last benefit is there is probably more load data available on the 6.5-284 from the long range target shooters than all of the other 6.5 calibers combined and this will help you in getting loads developed. I would not go with any 6.5 if you are not into reloading and willing to tinker with loads...otherwise, you won't really get the benefits available from shooting a 6.5. If you end up with a 6.5-284 pm me and i will share some pet loads, suggestions, etc. That i have found from loading this round for the past 15 years or so. I have never seen anyone get rid of a 6.5-284 once they hunted with one. Good luck.


^^that^^


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## swbuckmaster

something I found on the 6.5-284

"The 6.5-284 has many strengths for 1000 yard competition shooting. As an outgrowth of this, it is not uncommon for hunters to look at these desirable features and attempt to adapt them to long range hunting. Unfortunately the two disciplines, although much the same in theory, are different. Accuracy alone is not enough to ensure fast humane killing at extended ranges. Most projectiles lose the ability to create wide wounding once the 2200fps barrier is breached. Some, like the A-Max and Berger VLD will produce fast kills as low as 2000fps. Below this velocity figure kills can be very slow with small bore projectiles if major bone is not encountered during penetration.

Long range hunters should always seek to find a load that will deliver 2000fps at the target, placing retained velocity ahead of retained energy in most (but not all) cases. It is for these reasons that the 6.5-.284 is, within these pages, treated as a 600 yard cartridge if long range hunting combined with consistent humane killing is the goal."

I think the creedmore would only be good out to 500 yards or less



another thing to ponder. 

"These figures are humbling. They illustrate not only the extreme capability of our hot 6.5mm cartridges, but also how difficult long range shooting is with any cartridge, even the world's premier long range match cartridge. From the hunter's perspective, a bullet from a hot 6.5mm Magnum deer rifle zeroed at the usual distance of 200 yards will hit nearly 7" low at 300 yards; he will need to aim along the animal's spine to put his bullet into the heart/lung area. If he were so foolish as to try a shot at 600 yards, he would have to hold approximately 5-1/2 feet over his target!

On the other hand, if our hypothetical hunter anticipated shooting at long range and zeroed his rifle at 600 yards, he would shoot completely over the top of a deer that appeared at 200 or 300 yards; he would have to remember to hold a couple of feet under where he wanted to hit. Moreover, if his deer were 800 yards away instead of 600, he would have to hold 5 feet over where he wanted to hit! The bullet's 14+ foot drop at 1000 yards is too depressing to contemplate. And remember, this is shooting the ultra-low drag A-Max match bullet, not an ordinary hunting bullet. Ponder those numbers for a while and then decide if you still believe the stories you read in the sporting magazines about ultra-long range big game kills.

Trajectory is not the entire story, of course. Other factors are also important, particularly for the hunter. Sectional density (SD), the ratio of a bullet's weight to the square of its diameter, is an important factor in penetration and thus the length of the wound channel and killing power. 6.5mm (.264" diameter) bullets shine in this area. The sectional density of a 6.5mm/120 grain bullet is .246, slightly superior to the .242 SD of a 130 grain .270 bullet and practically identical to the .248 SD of a 165 grain .30 caliber bullet.

The sectional density of a 140 grain 6.5mm bullet is .287, which is considerably better than the .271 SD of a 180 grain .30 caliber bullet and nearly identical to the .288 SD of a 230 grain .338 bullet. The excellent SD of 6.5mm hunting bullets has made the caliber's reputation as a slayer of big game animals. It also contributes to the high ballistic coefficient of 6.5mm match bullets."


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## Fishhuntthendie

swbuckmaster said:


> something I found on the 6.5-284
> 
> "The 6.5-284 has many strengths for 1000 yard competition shooting. As an outgrowth of this, it is not uncommon for hunters to look at these desirable features and attempt to adapt them to long range hunting. Unfortunately the two disciplines, although much the same in theory, are different. Accuracy alone is not enough to ensure fast humane killing at extended ranges. Most projectiles lose the ability to create wide wounding once the 2200fps barrier is breached. Some, like the A-Max and Berger VLD will produce fast kills as low as 2000fps. Below this velocity figure kills can be very slow with small bore projectiles if major bone is not encountered during penetration.
> 
> Long range hunters should always seek to find a load that will deliver 2000fps at the target, placing retained velocity ahead of retained energy in most (but not all) cases. It is for these reasons that the 6.5-.284 is, within these pages, treated as a 600 yard cartridge if long range hunting combined with consistent humane killing is the goal."
> 
> I think the creedmore would only be good out to 500 yards or less
> 
> another thing to ponder.
> 
> "These figures are humbling. They illustrate not only the extreme capability of our hot 6.5mm cartridges, but also how difficult long range shooting is with any cartridge, even the world's premier long range match cartridge. From the hunter's perspective, a bullet from a hot 6.5mm Magnum deer rifle zeroed at the usual distance of 200 yards will hit nearly 7" low at 300 yards; he will need to aim along the animal's spine to put his bullet into the heart/lung area. If he were so foolish as to try a shot at 600 yards, he would have to hold approximately 5-1/2 feet over his target!
> 
> On the other hand, if our hypothetical hunter anticipated shooting at long range and zeroed his rifle at 600 yards, he would shoot completely over the top of a deer that appeared at 200 or 300 yards; he would have to remember to hold a couple of feet under where he wanted to hit. Moreover, if his deer were 800 yards away instead of 600, he would have to hold 5 feet over where he wanted to hit! The bullet's 14+ foot drop at 1000 yards is too depressing to contemplate. And remember, this is shooting the ultra-low drag A-Max match bullet, not an ordinary hunting bullet. Ponder those numbers for a while and then decide if you still believe the stories you read in the sporting magazines about ultra-long range big game kills.
> 
> Trajectory is not the entire story, of course. Other factors are also important, particularly for the hunter. Sectional density (SD), the ratio of a bullet's weight to the square of its diameter, is an important factor in penetration and thus the length of the wound channel and killing power. 6.5mm (.264" diameter) bullets shine in this area. The sectional density of a 6.5mm/120 grain bullet is .246, slightly superior to the .242 SD of a 130 grain .270 bullet and practically identical to the .248 SD of a 165 grain .30 caliber bullet.
> 
> The sectional density of a 140 grain 6.5mm bullet is .287, which is considerably better than the .271 SD of a 180 grain .30 caliber bullet and nearly identical to the .288 SD of a 230 grain .338 bullet. The excellent SD of 6.5mm hunting bullets has made the caliber's reputation as a slayer of big game animals. It also contributes to the high ballistic coefficient of 6.5mm match bullets."


SWBuckmaster makes some very good points about SD and BC of the 6.5 and these are precisely why I like the 6.5. The original poster suggested using a 6.5 for hunting and the increased velocity for identical projectiles with the 6.5-284 over the 260 or Creedmore is a valid reason for selecting one over another in a hunting situation with minimal additional recoil. SWBuckmaster's statements about long range hunting are also very important to consider. Personally, I know very few people that can consistently make a kill shot on the first shot at 600 yards in the field and thus, all shots at game should be limited to shots that you have practiced frequently and can make routinely. For some that limit may be 50 yards, others 200 yards, and some...well...that is a question to be based on their personal skill, practice and personal ethics/shooting ability. Just because your rifle can shoot a certain distance with a certain amount of velocity/retained energy does not mean that the driver (hunter) has any business pulling the trigger in such a situation.

I do disagree with SWBuckmaster's statement that it is "foolish" to try a 600 yard shot on game. I agree that probably less than 1/10th of 1 percent of all hunters have any business shooting at this distance or more than a couple hundred yards for that matter but I personally know a few individuals that make this type of shot routinely and I have done so myself. This requires a detailed knowledge of your firearm, load, scope, wind speed and direction, dope, elevation, humidity, shot angle (incline/decline) and how to adjust for each of these conditions, etc. and it is not aiming 5 feet over the animal and hoping to hit something. My experience is that shooting accurately at long range in a hunting environment takes years of practice, load development...and burning several barrels out along the way through practice. I would recommend this to anyone before I would dare to take shots on animals at this type or longer distance. My most recent practice at 600 yards resulted in a 5 shot sub 4" group which is more than adequate for the kill zone of any game I intend to hunt. I do not recommend any long range "hunting" unless you have put in the time, effort and practice to make a humane kill shot...on the first shot. I shoot tens of thousands of rounds every year (one of the benefits of getting free ammo for many of my guns) and based on this practice, extend my potential shooting distance based on my current rifle/accuracy/practice/ability with the particular rifle in hand and I only take such shots when the conditions make it possible.

One last word on the topic....in my opinion...the most important part of any hunting rifle (or any rifle for that matter) is accuracy. A well placed bullet in the heart/lung area usually results in a fairly quick death with any quality bullet pushed fast enough to expand and create a wound channel. Thus, known cartridges/loads that have been shown over the years to have superb accuracy are a very good place to start when looking for a hunting rifle. (.308, 6.5-284, 300 WM, 338 Lapua, etc.) The biggest bullet of the strongest construction traveling very fast does little good with a poorly placed hit. The vast majority of hunters I see shooting in the woods and see at the ranges shoot a rifle that has too much recoil for them to shoot comfortably so they don't practice as much as they need to be become a truly proficient marksman. This is another benefit to the 6.5 as the recoil is very mild.


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## swbuckmaster

The reason im not a fan with this bullet over 500 yards is because it falls below 2000 fps and that can cause bullet failure. For the bullet to mushroom it needs ^2000 fps


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## Longgun

i agree with your statement of not being "suitable" on paper @ 500, BUT of the various animals i have taken with mine, two have been cow elk at ranges that exceed the 5 mark and a buck mulie. Both cows, 100% broadside, were hit cleanly in the forward upper area of the boiler room. They both walked a couple steps, stood there for a minute then fell over. Now, granted a complete passthrough was not achieved, but both slugs were discovered in the off side chest. One had penetrated the interior membrane of the offside ribcage, the other had struck an offside rib and was discovered while digging around. The mulie, was simply stone dead at the hit w/a high shoulder placement...lights out. The last couple years though, i have been opting to take my 300Win on every outing as it seems to buck the wind better.


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## swbuckmaster

Interesting on your cow elk

But i think Its definatly a 1000 yard paper puncher.


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## EricH

In Sweden they use 6.5mm bullets to harvest 100,000 moose a year. I would go with .260 Rem in a short action or 6.5-.284 if a long action and feel comfortable shooting anything in North America that is not a grizzly bear. I have shot two black bear and two caribou with my .260 Rem and have had great performance.


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## gwailow

swbuckmaster said:


> The reason im not a fan with this bullet over 500 yards is because it falls below 2000 fps and that can cause bullet failure. For the bullet to mushroom it needs ^2000 fps


That's not necessarily true. Bullet manufacturers low/high function windows are different for different bullets. However many will still function (expand, mushroom, whatever) at around 1600. Though not always optimal for killing, because you lose some of the forgiveness. If you're a reloader, often times you can call the manufacturer regarding particular bullets and they provide you with the low end function window. You can then compare this to your drop chart and determine when you have extended past your effective range.


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## gwailow

EricH said:


> In Sweden they use 6.5mm bullets to harvest 100,000 moose a year. I would go with .260 Rem in a short action or 6.5-.284 if a long action and feel comfortable shooting anything in North America that is not a grizzly bear. I have shot two black bear and two caribou with my .260 Rem and have had great performance.


Small moose, party hunting, and lots of booze. At least that's what my swedish friends tell me.


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## Loke

Karamojo Bell killed 1011 elephants in his ivory hunting career. the vast majority were killed with the 6.5X57 Mauser, or 7X57 Mauser. It is all about bullet selection and placement.


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## DallanC

Loke said:


> Karamojo Bell killed 1011 elephants in his ivory hunting career. the vast majority were killed with the 6.5X57 Mauser, or 7X57 Mauser. It is all about bullet selection and placement.


OOoooo! I love storys of Walter. The guy used to practice shooting birds out of the air with his rifle. He certainly lived in a different world than the rest of us.

-DallanC


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## outdoorser

Ok guys, well I have the opportunity to purchase a brand new Ruger American Predator in 6.5 creedmor for under $350. *Do I do it??* It will mainly be used as a coyote/mule deer/antelope gun. I am going crazy thinking about that gun!


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## Critter

Buy it, what do you have to loose? 

A man can never have too many guns, that is until he has to clean the cobwebs out of one before he shoots it.


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## fishreaper

Do it. The Scandinavians use them for moose. It should be a fine cartridge for anything you need, and those Americans are pretty nifty. The cartridge was actually used as a target round for the biathlon in the Olympics for many years prior to the .22 lr.


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## Cooky

outdoorser said:


> Ok guys, well I have the opportunity to purchase a brand new Ruger American Predator in 6.5 creedmor for under $350. *Do I do it??* It will mainly be used as a coyote/mule deer/antelope gun. I am going crazy thinking about that gun!


Everyone I've talked to that have shot the Americans in other calibers love 'em. Most claim well under 1 MOA. I'll bet even if you hate it you won't lose money if you trade it off.


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## outdoorser

Ok thanks for the input guys. anything else to talk me into buying this ruger american predator in 6.5 creedmor?


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## kd7kmp

outdoorser said:


> Ok guys, well I have the opportunity to purchase a brand new Ruger American Predator in 6.5 creedmor for under $350. *Do I do it??* It will mainly be used as a coyote/mule deer/antelope gun. I am going crazy thinking about that gun!


Take it, and if you don't, I will.

Kevin


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