# Is BYU back?



## Huge29

Certainly hard to draw lots of conclusions from a single game particularly one in which we had a new OC and the other having a new HC. However, the Y certainly looked like a major improvement over last year.
My biggest surprises were CAnada looking fairly legitimate and the lack of offensive fouls for a new offense was great for a first game. I think the OCD coaching nature of Grimes has really taken a hold.


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## taxidermist

Oh...…….. The "ZOO" played a game? Forgot all about them. No Biggy I'm sure.-O,-


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## hunting777

It was a good game for sure. BYU has always had Arizona's number though. They seem to always do good against them. I really hope that they do better this year. BYU has a pretty though schedule. I would like to see all wins except against USU. GO AGGIES! I really think that they showed progress and way more discipline. It's going to be fun to watch as the year plays out.


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## wyoming2utah

I watched both Utah and BYU play their first games and came away feeling like the BYU was far more impressive than anything Utah did. To take things even a step further, I am so sick of Bill Reilly on ESPN 700 hyping up the Utes year after year only to see them finish near the bottom of the their division that I have stopped listening. In fact, the last straw was when Reilly said the Cougars have no chance against Utah this year because the Utes are too fast, too strong, and too big for the Y to match up against. As a Ute fan, I can't help but worry now that Utah will lose. Even worse, this moron Reilly will probably have me not feeling so bad if it does happen.

I still wish the Utes were in the Mountain West! I hate the Pac-12 hype...


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## Catherder

I thought BYU looked terrific and Mangum played a great game. It's a long season, but it was a nice start for them.



wyoming2utah said:


> I am so sick of Bill Reilly on ESPN 700 hyping up the Utes year after year only to see them finish near the bottom of the their division that I have stopped listening.


I've never had a problem with Reilly, (I've always preferred him over Wrubell for instance, rooting interests not factored in), but I was pissed that they got rid of Frank Dolce as color man and replaced him with Scott Mitchell. Mitchell was dreadful on Thursday. I always liked Dolce's analysis and he was decidedly not the homer in doing it that others are. Bad move KALL 700.


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## goosefreak

BYU has a tough schedule ahead of them though... we’ll see how they handle the pressure.


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## GaryFish

It is one game. Against a not good Arizona team. I'm encouraged. But still, just one game. 

Is BYU back? Back to what? The reality check BYU fans miss is that BYU always has been a solid, good, not great program. They had a few years 2-3 decades ago that were more than that. But those were the exceptions, not the rule. Consistent 8-9 wins would be "back" to what BYU has been more often than not in the last 40 years. BYU is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, an elite program. But it is a good one. And I'm fine with that.


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## Vanilla

GaryFish said:


> Is BYU back? Back to what? The reality check BYU fans miss is that BYU always has been a solid, good, not great program. They had a few years 2-3 decades ago that were more than that. But those were the exceptions, not the rule. Consistent 8-9 wins would be "back" to what BYU has been more often than not in the last 40 years. BYU is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, an elite program. But it is a good one. And I'm fine with that.


This was my exact question I asked myself when I saw this topic heading. "Back to what?"

According to Wikipedia, since 1940, they have 9 total seasons with 2 or less losses on the year. They have as many 5+ loss seasons since 2002. So if you are asking if BYU is back to being a 4-5 loss team, the answer is maybe, they might get to 8-4 with some fortunate bounces. They might be, but they might be 6-6 this year too. I do think they are better than they were last year, though, regardless.



wyoming2utah said:


> In fact, the last straw was when Reilly said the Cougars have no chance against Utah this year because the Utes are too fast, too strong, and too big for the Y to match up against. As a Ute fan, I can't help but worry now that Utah will lose.


I'm pretty sure that you are right. BYU and Utah are both listening to Bill Riley, and his comments will be the deciding factor in the game.



wyoming2utah said:


> I still wish the Utes were in the Mountain West! I hate the Pac-12 hype...


This is coo coo talk.


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## wyoming2utah

Whoa....hold on their Tex. I didn't say BYU and Utah were listening to that idiot Reilly. I was talking about bad karma...a jinxing, kind of like when the basketball announcer talks about the long list of free throws a guy has made and then watches him miss. Nice shootin' though.

As far as coo coo talk goes....well, coo coo or not, I liked local college football much better when they were trying to break up the BCS compared to now when they are near the bottom of the PAC-12 south year in and year out. Coo coo or not, I'm not drinking the Reilly Kool-aid and believing that this is the year. Good heck, they've been saying that for the last 3 or 4. I guess if he keeps saying it, one year he can say he was right. But, that yawner against FCS Weber State gave me no real hope that they can win a mediocre at best PAC-12 south.


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## Vanilla

wyoming2utah said:


> Whoa....hold on their Tex. I didn't say BYU and Utah were listening to that idiot Reilly. I was talking about bad karma...a jinxing, kind of like when the basketball announcer talks about the long list of free throws a guy has made and then watches him miss. Nice shootin' though.


I guess it's reasonable to believe in other people being able to jinx a game they have nothing to do with by making comments on the radio.



wyoming2utah said:


> As far as coo coo talk goes....well, coo coo or not, I liked local college football much better when they were trying to break up the BCS compared to now when they are near the bottom of the PAC-12 south year in and year out. Coo coo or not, I'm not drinking the Reilly Kool-aid and believing that this is the year. Good heck, they've been saying that for the last 3 or 4. I guess if he keeps saying it, one year he can say he was right. But, that yawner against FCS Weber State gave me no real hope that they can win a mediocre at best PAC-12 south.


I don't listen to Bill Reilly, so I have no idea what he has said. But I can tell you, nobody with any level of intelligence thought Utah was going to win the South last year. They had just lost 17 starters to graduation and/or the NFL, and were one of the youngest teams in the conference. You can get away with being young sometimes if you are USC or Alabama and recruit all 5 star recruits, but Utah will never be able to get away with that. So, setting up straw man arguments that don't exist to prove a point isn't all that effective. I don't know if this is the year. They are talented, and probably more deep than any other year I can remember. However, the schedule is not in their favor to win the division. Utah draws Washington, Stanford, Oregon, and Wazzu in the cross over games in the North. USC substitutes Washington and Oregon (both top 25 teams right now) for Oregon State and Cal. Not exactly equal in the scheduling, but that is how the cookie crumbles sometimes. I think Utah has a good team this year. I don't know if they can win the division.

But I've got to say, if you prefer Wyoming, Colorado State, UNLV, and Airforce coming to Rice Eccles over Washington, USC, Arizona, and Oregon, then I don't think I could convince you that 1+1 = 2. No matter how hard I tried.


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## wyoming2utah

Oh no...because no reasonable person would ever be superstitious, believe in karma, bad luck, or jinxes. And, these things are never referred to in sports because they are so unreasonable. Keep shootin' Tex...Where was Utah picked by the media last year? 2nd. Same as this. Some were even picking Utah #1. I am still not sure the PAC-12 is any better than the old Mountain West, though. What has the PAC-12 done nationally recently?

I haven't spent one minute in Rice Eccles...so I don't care who comes to the stadium. But, I did like watching the Utes against BYU in meaningful conference games, TCU, Air Force (who happens to have more wins against Utah than Utah does against Air Force), and what could have been Boise State among some of those others. But, as opposed to North Dakota, San Jose State, and Colorado....they have made a huge improvement right?

What I don't like is losing the opportunity to be a giant killer...and hate this wanna-be giant mentality that they now have. Sorry, but placing 5th in the PAC-12 conference year after year hasn't been all that fun. Coo coo or not, but my interest in Utah since they have joined the PAC-12 has seriously declined. 

The funny thing, is that I knew I could get you to bite on the bait...bring back the ol' Mountain West.


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## Vanilla

You give yourself too much credit. I've yet to even nibble the bait. I'm tugging on your line thinking you've got a bite. 

As for where Utah was picked, last I checked, 2nd place is not winning it. But, they may do things differently down south. 

Did PBH get all the smart genes along with the good looking genes? 
#brothersmack #owned 

Where is Cheech when we need him?


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## wyoming2utah

No, second place isn't winning. But, some of the writers gave Utah first place votes. Doesn't that mean some have picked them to win? 

Tugging or biting, you've got hold of that bait. And, I'm pretty sure the hook has been firmly planted...keep shootin'!

By the way, what benefits has the Utah football team seen since joining the PAC-12? Just more money? Better team?


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## Vanilla

wyoming2utah said:


> By the way, what benefits has the Utah football team seen since joining the PAC-12? Just more money? Better team?


More money. Lots more money. Better facilities. Stadium upgrades. Better experiences for the student-athletes and fans alike.

And this is not just for football, but every sport.

That is just to name a few that I know are in place. I have other suspicions, but we'll just keep it at what is factually present for now.

(Nosed that fly again, but you set the hook to quickly, and my mouth was never open. Swing and a miss!)


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## wyoming2utah

Ok...so more money. I will give them that along with the things that come with more money. As a fan, though, that doesn't attend football games at Rice Eccles (as a basketball coach, I attend the U's team camp every year and have enjoyed a lot of their new basketball facilities), I am still hard-pressed in seeing how that increase in money helps me out. I have also heard over and over how much the Utes have improved their talent on the field as well...but, the results on the field don't suggest any improvements. Their best season in the PAC-12, for example, resulted in a Las Vegas Bowl berth against BYU. So, even when they get that vaunted 1st place...they play a MWC team. And, interestingly, and not surprisingly, their last bowl loss was to Boise State--a MWC team. So, on the field, I'm still trying to figure out how the move to the PAC-12 has made them better for me as a fan. They used to play in the highly competitive MWC where they only occasionally finished first and now they play in the highly competitive PAC-12 where they have only occasionally finished first and more often than not finish towards the bottom. Keep shootin' Tex...!


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## GaryFish

Soooooo, is this still a thread about BYU being back? I think I missed something.


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## Vanilla

We moved on to bigger and better things! :grin:

W2U, according to ESPN’s FPI, Utah has the #5 toughest remaining schedule in the country. I realize this is just one metric, and it’s only a projection at this point, but it’s indicative of my position on this. If you’d rather go back to Colorado State, Air Force, and Wyoming, then I’m sure there is room on the New Mexico bandwagon. I’d just assume the Utes keep playing the best of the best.


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## GaryFish

Big fish little pond, or little fish in big pond. That's the utahutes.

BYU is some kind of lonely fish wondering why no one wants them in their pond.


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## HighNDry

I think the thing that matters most is that Utah has beat BYU 8 or 9 times in a row now. That has always been the important thing. It's like this: The Utes claim BYU sucks and they want everyone to beat them and then they want to brag about how they have beaten a sucky team every year like it's some type of championship. I don't get the mentality.

I too liked it better when MAC and Edwards were the coaches. Both teams were in the running for WAC or MWC championships and when they played it was more meaningful.

Now the faster, bigger, better Utes beat up on BYU and the Ute fan base thinks they are some type of champions because they are in the PAC12. Well do something this year with the faster, bigger and better players and do it in the PAC12. Quit measuring yourselves on how many times you can beat a sucky BYU program.


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## Vanilla

HighNDry said:


> Quit measuring yourselves on how many times you can beat a sucky BYU program.


But it's so much fun!


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## Critter

Yep, BYU is back. Winning one and then getting a big head and loosing one that they were suppose to win.


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## goosefreak

as a BYU fan....YES, they are back to dropping passes that hit them in the numbers and they are back to crumbling by the 3rd Quarter but, I'll take a loosing team over being a Ute fan!! :mrgreen:


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## Catherder

HighNDry said:


> Quit measuring yourselves on how many times you can beat a sucky BYU program.


I assure you that how we do against BYU is only one of many metrics we use to measure our success and a small one at that. As proof, last nights call-in show after the Utes dreadful effort against NIU fielded zero calls talking about the "Y", and everything was about Washington and PAC-12 competition. Sorry your cougs weren't important enough to talk about. :neutral:

I will say though that our success in the rivalry does make it nominally more tolerable to deal with perpetually cackling cougarfans. Just think, the kids being baptised this year have never seen a BYU win over the U in their lifetimes. :shock:8)


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## goosefreak

I will say though that our success in the rivalry does make it nominally more tolerable to deal with perpetually cackling cougarfans. [/QUOTE said:


> And more prominently the cackling Ute fans, right?


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## Vanilla

goosefreak said:


> I'll take a loosing team over being a Ute fan!! :mrgreen:


This is a decision all BYU fans have to make: Cheer for the Utes, or lose. More and more are cheering for the Utes.


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## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> This is a decision all BYU fans have to make: Cheer for the Utes, or lose. More and more are cheering for the Utes.


I'd rather die! I think Utah is a good team and I root for them when they dont play the Y but, I dislike the Ute fan base.. I'm not saying cougar fans dont talk smack but, Ute fans go out of their way to verbally terrorize diminish and talk down on individuals, their families, religion and anything else they stand for if they are a BYU fan. There's smack talking and then there is being an azz hole!

Not saying you are, I'm saying Ute fans in general. I cant even go to a church meeting like EQ without a Ute fan making sure to go out of his way to get the last word in on a BYU fan. Besides when "we" do beat the Utes, it will be the ultimate climax!! GO BLUE!!


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## Critter

Vanilla said:


> This is a decision all BYU fans have to make: Cheer for the Utes, or lose. More and more are cheering for the Utes.


I don't believe that fans will jump the Y's team and go cheer for the Utes. You will find that BYU fans are a dedicated group. They know that they will never get to be #1 even if hell did freeze over one year and they did get there.

But they do realize that most of the time that the teams will put up a fight no matter who they play and sometimes they win that game that they were suppose to loose by 40 or so points. But then there are the times that they just roll over so that you can scratch them on the tummy as they are getting ran over like a freight train.

As for cheering for the Utes, I am sure at some time I cheered for them. I can't remember when but I am sure that I have.


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## Vanilla

Critter, I’m a Utah fan that also transplanted to Provo 16.5 years ago. I’m well accustomed with BYU fans. You’d be surprised how many have swapped their blue for red. 

Goosefreak, do you mind me asking how old you are? Because the history of ugly things, and ugly things based upon religion, is not one-sided. It just seems that way because it’s been 8+ years since BYU fans have had a chance to say something.


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## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> Critter, I'm a Utah fan that also transplanted to Provo 16.5 years ago. I'm well accustomed with BYU fans. You'd be surprised how many have swapped their blue for red.
> 
> Goosefreak, do you mind me asking how old you are? Because the history of ugly things, and ugly things based upon religion, is not one-sided. It just seems that way because it's been 8+ years since BYU fans have had a chance to say something.


I'v been alive for some of the Edwards days.. I'm 31, win or loose a Ute fan is always the same, kind of like a dodge owner :grin::grin:


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## Catherder

I will say though that our success in the rivalry does make it nominally more tolerable to deal with perpetually cackling cougarfans. [/QUOTE said:


> And more prominently the cackling Ute fans, right?
> 
> When Utefans talk about the rivalry amongst themselves, there is a feeling of general satisfaction, so maybe so.
> 
> 
> 
> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ute fans go out of their way to verbally terrorize diminish and talk down on individuals, their families, religion and anything else they stand for if they are a BYU fan. There's smack talking and then there is being an azz hole!
> 
> Not saying you are, I'm saying Ute fans in general. I cant even go to a church meeting like EQ without a Ute fan making sure to go out of his way to get the last word in on a BYU fan. Besides when "we" do beat the Utes, it will be the ultimate climax!! GO BLUE!!
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations. You have a tiny inkling of what it is like to be a Utefan living in Utah County. Although 10 minutes reading the comment section on the D news or listening to sports talk radio has about the same effect.
> 
> Stepping away from personal cheering interests, it is clear that neither side has a monopoly on Delta Bravo behavior and it is why I would shed no tears if the rivalry went away.
Click to expand...


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## Critter

Heck, I remember the old WAC when Arizona, Arizona State, and UTEP were all members before heading out to find greener pastures. Not to mention when football games were played on the field to the east of the Smith Field house. 

I believe it was Arizona State that got ripped off one year in the WAC when they went undefeated in football to only end up in second place if my memory serves me right. 

Also on the fans rooting for the Utes perhaps they are the ones that want to root for a home team, the real question is who do the root for when the Utes and Y plays? 

Now I need to go take my Geritol and go to bed.


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## goosefreak

Catherder said:


> Stepping away from personal cheering interests, it is clear that neither side has a monopoly on Delta Bravo behavior and it is why I would shed no tears if the rivalry went away.


Nah, I like the rivalry, its fun and exciting. I just wish some of the Ute fans would put their D-bag card away sometimes and get back do doing some good constructive trash talk..

I will say, I do get embarrassed watching some BYU fans try and trash talk without it being a violation of morality..


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## wyoming2utah

goosefreak said:


> I'd rather die! I think Utah is a good team and I root for them when they dont play the Y but, I dislike the Ute fan base.. I'm not saying cougar fans dont talk smack but, Ute fans go out of their way to verbally terrorize diminish and talk down on individuals, their families, religion and anything else they stand for if they are a BYU fan. There's smack talking and then there is being an azz hole!


Funny...these are the exact reasons I became a U fan! I got so sick of hearing about how great BYU was and how it was God's school that I couldn't help but root against them!


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## PBH

This thread cracks me up.

Just like every year, BYU comes out and thinks they are in the running for a national title. They win game #1, and fans are all on board.
Welcome back to reality.

As for the Utes: I kept hearing something on the radion and TV -- the Utes "prolific" offense. I think they meant "pathetic", "passive", or "pwned". I'm not sure how they got that mixed up.

NIU probably should have won that game. 

I was really sick and tired of all the male testosterone enhancement commercials during that Ute game. What was up with that? Does Frank Thomas have any prostate problems?

I finally switched over and started watching Oregon State beat up on SUU. The commercials were a lot better.


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## HighNDry

wyoming2utah said:


> Funny...these are the exact reasons I became a U fan! I got so sick of hearing about how great BYU was and how it was God's school that I couldn't help but root against them!


So do you also despise the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they say it is God's restored church with the fullness of the gospel of Christ?


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## Vanilla

HighNDry said:


> So do you also despise the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they say it is God's restored church with the fullness of the gospel of Christ?


^^^ Hey goosefreak, I offer you Exhibit A.

w2u, you nailed it buddy. Nailed it.


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## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> HighNDry said:
> 
> 
> 
> So do you also despise the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they say it is God's restored church with the fullness of the gospel of Christ?
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Hey goosefreak, I offer you Exhibit A.
> 
> w2u, you nailed it buddy. Nailed it.
Click to expand...

I draw the line at bashing on the church.. the church saved my life so, it's sensitive to me. But you Ute fans keep doing what you Ute fans do..BYU has 0 do do with the organization of the church.


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## wyoming2utah

HighNDry said:


> So do you also despise the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they say it is God's restored church with the fullness of the gospel of Christ?


Nope, life-long member...baptized my boy on Saturday. But, testimonies on Sunday about BYU's football team, coaches recruiting players to BYU on the grounds that it was God's will, and the idea that I would go to hell if I didn't like BYU or attend the university definitely made me a U fan.


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## Vanilla

goosefreak said:


> I draw the line at bashing on the church.. the church saved my life so, it's sensitive to me. But you Ute fans keep doing what you Ute fans do..BYU has 0 do do with the organization of the church.


I now present your own comment as Exhibit B why your statement about taking it outside of football and basing it on religion is not one-sided. In fact, it actually might be pretty close to one-sided, just not the side you think.

You have no idea who you are talking to. You have no idea what my beliefs are, and I would let you in on the truth, except for this is a sports forum and my religious beliefs have nothing to do with the discussion, no matter how hard you try and make them. Nobody here has bashed the church. In fact, the only people here that have even brought it up are BYU fans.

Take a step back from the keyboard. It's just football. Don't let the rivalry make you do and say things that you will look back on and regret.


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## wyoming2utah

goosefreak said:


> BYU has 0 do do with the organization of the church.


That's funny...I have had bishops who testified about God wanting BYU to win.


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## Catherder

PBH said:


> I was really sick and tired of all the male testosterone enhancement commercials during that Ute game. What was up with that? Does Frank Thomas have any prostate problems?


+1000. What was up with that! Considering that it was a MAC game broadcast, maybe they have more of a problem with that back there. They probably wear flat brimmed hats there too. However, maybe the Utes offensive line could have used some of the product based on their performance Saturday.

As for the rest, the last several posts are my exhibit A of why the rivalry is no fun any more. Good people saying dumb things that rile up the adversaries into an ongoing cycle of sniping. H&D, did you really have to go there? :roll:
.
TOTP


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## HighNDry

wyoming2utah said:


> Nope, life-long member...baptized my boy on Saturday. But, testimonies on Sunday about BYU's football team, coaches recruiting players to BYU on the grounds that it was God's will, and the idea that I would go to hell if I didn't like BYU or attend the university definitely made me a U fan.


Sweet. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. I just wasn't sure if it was the boldness of someone believing BYU was God's university because of it's affiliation with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints or boldness in the members of the LDS church believing that their church is God's church.


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## HighNDry

Catherder said:


> +1000. What was up with that! Considering that it was a MAC game broadcast, maybe they have more of a problem with that back there. They probably wear flat brimmed hats there too. However, maybe the Utes offensive line could have used some of the product based on their performance Saturday.
> 
> As for the rest, the last several posts are my exhibit A of why the rivalry is no fun any more. Good people saying dumb things that rile up the adversaries into an ongoing cycle of sniping. H&D, did you really have to go there? :roll:
> .
> TOTP


No, I didn't. But I've waded into places I shouldn't have before and wondered if my freedom of speech should have been stopped. I also wonder why it is so hurtful and brings out so much angst from people, when other people, right or wrong, believe something different than them.


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## Vanilla

This thread is a perfect representation of the rivalry, actually. 

BYU thinking their football team is better than it is.

Utah fans telling them it's not. 

BYU fans get offended and bring religion into it, followed by a back and forth over religion for the rest of the season while we wait for the game. (Enough to even prompt a member of the 1st presidency to address the issue in priesthood session of conference a few years back...) 

Utah wins the game. 

Rinse, and repeat. 

I do appreciate that things have settled down some since Kalani got the job. I suspect that is temporary, however. Eventually BYU will win a game again in the series. Maybe it is this year? Maybe next? I don't know, but it will happen again, of course. And I'm sure many years of pent up aggression will flow from Provo, and hatred will be fully restored.


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## PBH

Vanilla said:


> Eventually BYU will win a game again in the series. Maybe it is this year?


With the Utes prolific offense?

(you might be right!)

All I can say is: Go Redskins!!

(wow! did I just say that out loud? Times are changing...)


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## wyoming2utah

Yeah....it is really weird for me to be more interested in the Redskins' game than the Cowboys' game. Wow, times are changin'!

As for the Utes and Cougs...well, it seems both are handicapped by mediocre or poor QB play. At least the hope with the Utes is that Huntley will continue to progress and get better and better. Unfortunately, Y fans don't have that luxury with Mangum. Based on what I have seen, it seems like USU's QB is better than both!


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## HighNDry

PBH, I thought the male enhancement commercials fit in perfectly with the U game. Twist it just a little and see it from another angle:
Utah is in the PAC12, therefore we are bigger, faster, and better. If you are smaller, slower, and not as good just join the PAC12 and instantly become the program you want to be. Yes, by being in the PAC12 you can become faster, bigger, and better.

Heck, I should be writing the advertisements. Hehe!


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## GaryFish

So back to football - 

BYU just didn't make any positive adjustments at the half. The OC seems obsessed with the jet sweep, but it only works if you have players faster than the defensive players, and BYU doesn't have players faster than Cal. The Cougar defense didn't seem to have any answer for the wildcat QB - #5 for Cal - that came in for the second half. He played like the Arizona guy was supposed to the week before. 

I came away after the game thinking that I'd just watched to teams, mediocre at best, play bad football for 3 1/2 hours, and BYU got outplayed and outcoached. 

I have a feeling things are going to be very ugly against Wisconsin this week.


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## Vanilla

You heppys are fine fishermen! 

And terrible human beings...

GO COWBOYS!


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## wyoming2utah

It is going to get really weird once the Cowboys and Redskins square off. I always considered myself a diehard Cowboy fan....but, over the past several years, my interest has waned. Now, I seem to just follow Alex Smith around and am sort of still a Cowboy fan.

I'm sure I will jump back on the bandwagon once they start winning again...


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## PBH

GaryFish said:


> ...but it only works if you have players faster than the defensive players, and BYU doesn't have players faster than Evan Weaver. ...


Fixed it for you.

Weaver waltzed over to BYU's offense, stole their picnic blanket and lunch, strolled over to the student section and found a coed, stole her, went and had his lunch (and whatever else he wanted), then found his way over across the line of scrimmage to tackle the BYU lad with the ball for a loss.

That guy destroyed BYU by himself.


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## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I draw the line at bashing on the church.. the church saved my life so, it's sensitive to me. But you Ute fans keep doing what you Ute fans do..BYU has 0 do do with the organization of the church.
> 
> 
> 
> I now present your own comment as Exhibit B why your statement about taking it outside of football and basing it on religion is not one-sided. In fact, it actually might be pretty close to one-sided, just not the side you think.
> 
> You have no idea who you are talking to. You have no idea what my beliefs are, and I would let you in on the truth, except for this is a sports forum and my religious beliefs have nothing to do with the discussion, no matter how hard you try and make them. Nobody here has bashed the church. In fact, the only people here that have even brought it up are BYU fans.
> 
> Take a step back from the keyboard. It's just football. Don't let the rivalry make you do and say things that you will look back on and regret.
Click to expand...

Proving my point one post at a time!!

Iv learned to live life with no regrets. No time for that..


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> HighNDry said:
> 
> 
> 
> So do you also despise the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they say it is God's restored church with the fullness of the gospel of Christ?
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Hey goosefreak, I offer you Exhibit A.
> 
> w2u, you nailed it buddy. Nailed it.
Click to expand...

So what does this implicate? That it was actually a UTE fan who brought up religion first?..........please, it's very transparent


----------



## Catherder

goosefreak said:


> Not saying you are, I'm saying Ute fans in general. *I cant even go to a church meeting like EQ without a Ute fan making sure to go out of his way to get the last word in on a BYU fan. * Besides when "we" do beat the Utes, it will be the ultimate climax!! GO BLUE!!


Actually, it was *you* who first mentioned church on this thread. Just sayin.....

Carry on.


----------



## Catherder

wyoming2utah said:


> At least the hope with the Utes is that Huntley will continue to progress and get better and better.


Agreed, but on Saturday he spent a lot of time running for his life and was sacked 6 times. It is hard to fully assess where he is at with that kind of pressure. Also, he wasn't helped by several drops either. That said, I doubt we will be mistaking Huntley for Russel Wilson or Aaron Rodgers anytime soon.


----------



## Vanilla

Catherder said:


> Actually, it was *you* who first mentioned church on this thread. Just sayin.....
> 
> Carry on.


Don't try and tell em. That's one thing I've learned about the Kuug faithful...you just can't tell em.


----------



## wyoming2utah

Catherder said:


> Agreed, but on Saturday he spent a lot of time running for his life and was sacked 6 times. It is hard to fully assess where he is at with that kind of pressure. Also, he wasn't helped by several drops either. That said, I doubt we will be mistaking Huntley for Russel Wilson or Aaron Rodgers anytime soon.


True...and, I am sure at least some of that pressure can be attributed to poor o-line play. But, how much of it can be attributed to holding on to the ball too long or indecision by the QB? I mean, heck, from what I saw, NIU wasn't bringing a lot of extra guys to pressure the QB. The drops are an issue as well...I love Covey, but after him, what real good receivers do they have? What notable deep threats do they have? I am pretty worried that this version of the Utes is not much better than last year's...


----------



## Vanilla

I hope their offense is much improved from last year. With a returning starting QB, 4 returning starting OL, and a stud of a RB returning, you'd hope they all make progress forward. They haven't showed it yet if they have moved forward, though. 

It's amazing to me how they have had so many struggles at QB over the years. When you see USC roll out 1st round QBs all the time, you just think you can pull off something pretty good in a 10 year period. But I'm reminded that the entire Big 10 conference, including all those national blue blood programs, hasn't had a QB drafted in the 1st round since 1995. The entire conference! So getting a top level QB isn't easy, obviously, but it sure makes things easier when you have one. Hopefully Huntley can continue to develop, and that King Tutt lives up to the hype after him. I don't expect 1st round picks for either, but hoping they both end up being really good college QBs.


----------



## goosefreak

I'm out of here :yo: (I retracted 2 of my statements I just made) Iv got better things to do then argue with a couple people who are more than likely past their prime :V|:


Enjoy that Ute knob..


----------



## BGD

Go Aggies!


----------



## Catherder

Vanilla said:


> Don't try and tell em. That's one thing I've learned about the Kuug faithful...you just can't tell em.


You were right. Even down to the obligatory and hastily retracted insult. ;-)

And I think I'm done with this one too. Since I'm past my prime, I need to drink my Ensure and get to bed.


----------



## Critter

Go Wolverines.....................................Ah shucks they don't have a football team yet.


----------



## Vanilla

goosefreak said:


> I'm out of here :yo: (I retracted 2 of my statements I just made) Iv got better things to do then argue with a couple people who are more than likely past their prime :V|:
> 
> Enjoy that Ute knob..


Max Hall loves your class. Can't wait to pour beer on you!


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> Max Hall loves your class. Can't wait to pour beer on you!


I'm back! typical Ute fashion.. I'll gladly let you pour your chitty beer on me. we'll see where it gets ya. You just name the bar


----------



## goosefreak

Catherder said:


> You were right. Even down to the obligatory and hastily retracted insult. ;-)
> 
> And I think I'm done with this one too. Since I'm past my prime, I need to drink my Ensure and get to bed.


I'll talk shmit with ya all night long if you want, I think its worthless talking shmit online. I figured i'd be the bigger man and walk away, now I'v come back to stup to your level with the bottom feeders.. I'd rather talk shmit it person though, anyone can hide behind a computer screen


----------



## Vanilla

We missed you. It just wasn’t the same while you were gone. 

It’s just football goose. Simmer down. Like I said, don’t lose your mind and say things you will look back on and regret. You’ve gone from lecturing us for being heathens to wanting to fight. Just go back to my first posts on the topic of BYU fans in response to your early posts. Don’t call me a prophet...

It’s just football. GO UTES!


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> We missed you. It just wasn't the same while you were gone.
> 
> It's just football goose. Simmer down. Like I said, don't lose your mind and say things you will look back on and regret. You've gone from lecturing us for being heathens to wanting to fight. Just go back to my first posts on the topic of BYU fans in response to your early posts. Don't call me a prophet...
> 
> It's just football. GO UTES!


I'v never said anything I regretted, nor will I ever. Thats the unique thing about being me. I dont fear my own words, Dont smack talk if you aren't willing to back it.

I dont give 2 chits about the game of football, I'm a baseball man myself. I root BLUE almost exclusively because of self entitled UTE fans..

There are plenty of Blue fans that need a lesson on facts, respect, and the art of trash talking BUT, Ute fans? well there's no hope there. I dont care if BYU looses every game for the rest of the existence of their program, I'm sick and tired of UTE fans AND BYU fans (on a smaller scale) Talk about how BYU is Gods team and belittle the two subjects and mix them together.

I'm pretty sure God doesn't give a rats stinky trouser tail about football. Religion with always remain religion and football will always remain football. BUT to ignorantly associate derogatory comments with religion and football ( prominently LDS ), is purely childish and disrespectful. Regardless if you are Blue or Red. Its football for hail sakes, The separation between Religion and football needs to start taking place.

I personally dont think using Religion to smack talk someone about there team is an appropriate thing to do, I think God deserves better than that.


----------



## Vanilla

The irony in the post above is incredible! Just incredible. 

I don’t know much, but I know there isn’t a single person that is afraid right now, so you can drop the tough guy bit. It’s the internet. Nobody is impressed. Might be time to rethink that whole “I’ve never said anything wrong” idea too if you’re going to reference the things you reference above. That’s my free advice for the day. You’re going to have to pay for any more of it. :grin:

GO UTES!


----------



## CPAjeff

Life is so much easier as a bangwagoner - ROLL TIDE!!


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> The irony in the post above is incredible! Just incredible.
> 
> Might be time to rethink that whole "I've never said anything wrong"


Well, since I never said that phrase how can I re-think it?

What I DID say is that " I never regretted anything I said" and I still dont. I'm not a poo-C cat.

what could I possibly regret? you gonna Write me a citation? teach me a lesson? get me booted out of the club? oh no! say it ain't so....please in the name of red, say it ain't so...

You think this it me being a tough guy? maybe a little heated but, defiantly not a tough guy. You think I need to puff my chest up to "impress people" please, the last thing I want to do is "impress" people...

Nah, see if I want to impress people I just post a picture of several limits of Greenheads. Now thats impressive.

say something that "im gonna regret" HA! thats in itsself is laughable

I hope when you use the word Irony, your not discriminating your own words too, but then that wouldn't be very Ute-ie of you


----------



## Vanilla

CPAjeff said:


> Life is so much easier as a bangwagoner - ROLL TIDE!!


Similar to BYU, we spanked them too!

#nationalchamps

#totp


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> Similar to BYU, we spanked them too!
> 
> #nationalchamps
> 
> #totp


Thats another thing that UTE and BYU fans do that drives me nuts. They like to use the terminology "we" whan talking about the team they cheer for.

As if they are part of the coaching staff. Thats why I never talk smack about the players, because I have nothing to do with the win or loose.

its just the fans I have to hear about, and how they propelled their team into the win


----------



## wyoming2utah

Vanilla said:


> I hope their offense is much improved from last year. With a returning starting QB, 4 returning starting OL, and a stud of a RB returning, you'd hope they all make progress forward. They haven't showed it yet if they have moved forward, though.
> 
> It's amazing to me how they have had so many struggles at QB over the years. When you see USC roll out 1st round QBs all the time, you just think you can pull off something pretty good in a 10 year period. But I'm reminded that the entire Big 10 conference, including all those national blue blood programs, hasn't had a QB drafted in the 1st round since 1995. The entire conference! So getting a top level QB isn't easy, obviously, but it sure makes things easier when you have one. Hopefully Huntley can continue to develop, and that King Tutt lives up to the hype after him. I don't expect 1st round picks for either, but hoping they both end up being really good college QBs.


That's the thing...I am totally happy with someone like Brian Johnson who turned into more than a capable QB even though he was no NFL'er. Since then, though, the QBs at the U have been mediocre at best.

Anyway, I did it...I did what I told myself I wouldn't do and turned on ESPN 700 again and listened to the idiots talking about U and Y football. They drive me nuts. This time their conversation focused on the Y game and they questioned whether BYU should change QBs because of their struggles against Cal and talked about how Squally Canada is a poor running back who can't make the first tackler miss. They mentioned in the same conversation that the U's struggles offensively were due to a very good NIU team--a team that would have no problem beating the Y.

I might be crazy or coo coo, but I would give Cal the nod over NIU as the better team and the one with the better players physically. To imply that the U's offensive struggles were almost entirely due to playing a very good Northern Illinois team and conversely implying that BYU's struggles were entirely due to poor QB, running back, and O-line play was beyond stupid. To make matters worse, I was bugged that they were entirely dismissing their vaunted PAC-12 by exclaiming how poor Arizona is and not giving Cal any credit. Of course, though, the story will be entirely different when the U plays those teams.

Needless to say, I lasted about 10 minutes on the radio before I recognized my blunder and turned it off....


----------



## PBH

goosefreak said:


> Thats another thing that UTE and BYU fans do that drives me nuts. They like to use the terminology "we" whan talking about the team they cheer for.


Ute and BYU fans? Or, how 'bout every fan of every team in every sport? Ever heard of a "12th man" ("6th man")? Ever hear about "home field advantage"? Fans are a part of the team. Without the fans, there is no team. Yes: *WE*

The Buffalo Bills (NFL team from NY) inducted the 12th man (yes, the fans) into their Wall of Fame.
The Indianapolis Colts did the same and inducted the 12th man in the Ring of Honor.
The Seattle Seahawks retired the number 12 in honor of their fans.
Texas A&M holds a trademark for the term "12th Man". (yes, they have sued the Bills, Colts, and Seahawks)

Fans are part of the team.

#WeAreUtah
#TakeNote
#HogHeaven


----------



## Vanilla

Now he wants to fight you too, PBH! Good job. 

As for NIU being able to beat BYU...we don’t have to speculate. We just have to be patient. They play next month. Let them settle it on the field. 

I don’t care if Utah QBs end up being good pros either. I mentioned that in my post. Of course, if you have a QB that is the #1 overall pick, that probably means your team was really, really good the year before he was drafted. So I’ll take #1 picks any time. But you’ll also notice that my timeline of finding something decent in a 10 year period goes back to the same player you mentioned as well. 

And garyfish...this tread seems to show that BYU is right where they usually are. Yes, they are back!


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> Now he wants to fight you too, PBH! Good job.
> 
> As for NIU being able to beat BYU...we don't have to speculate. We just have to be patient. They play next month. Let them settle it on the field.
> 
> I don't care if Utah QBs end up being good pros either. I mentioned that in my post. Of course, if you have a QB that is the #1 overall pick, that probably means your team was really, really good the year before he was drafted. So I'll take #1 picks any time. But you'll also notice that my timeline of finding something decent in a 10 year period goes back to the same player you mentioned as well.
> 
> And garyfish...this tread seems to show that BYU is right where they usually are. Yes, they are back!


I never used the word fight. That's on you.. You were the one who wanted to pour beer on me. I was just simply offering a chance. You wouldn't take it..


----------



## goosefreak

PBH said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats another thing that UTE and BYU fans do that drives me nuts. They like to use the terminology "we" whan talking about the team they cheer for.
> 
> 
> 
> Ute and BYU fans? Or, how 'bout every fan of every team in every sport? Ever heard of a "12th man" ("6th man")? Ever hear about "home field advantage"? Fans are a part of the team. Without the fans, there is no team. Yes: *WE*
> 
> The Buffalo Bills (NFL team from NY) inducted the 12th man (yes, the fans) into their Wall of Fame.
> The Indianapolis Colts did the same and inducted the 12th man in the Ring of Honor.
> The Seattle Seahawks retired the number 12 in honor of their fans.
> Texas A&M holds a trademark for the term "12th Man". (yes, they have sued the Bills, Colts, and Seahawks)
> 
> Fans are part of the team.
> 
> #WeAreUtah
> #TakeNote
> #HogHeaven
Click to expand...

#notheyarenot..

It's all just ritual


----------



## Vanilla

goosefreak said:


> I never used the word fight. That's on you.. You were the one who wanted to pour beer on me. I was just simply offering a chance. You wouldn't take it..


You're right. And it didn't have any other insinuation with it. And neither did your post to Catherder to meet face to face to talk smack have any other implication either. Finally, neither did you have any other motive when bringing religion into this first out of everyone. And we already know you never have, and never will say anything you regret. Got it!

So back to the Utes...Any predictions for the big game Saturday night?

W2U, PBH, *we've* got the Giants coming to town Sunday night. Where you at on that one?


----------



## wyoming2utah

Prediction for Saturday night...Utes lose a close game where their offense struggles and their defense plays well but is on the field too long.

I will be watching and rooting for the Cowboys. I can't stand the Giants or Eli Manning. I will be a Cowboys fan all year...I will be a bit confused when they play the Redskins, but will probably still root for the Cowboys (I will hope that Smith plays well but loses).


----------



## HighNDry

I'm going out on a limb of faith (oops is that religious?) and say that Utah will upset Washington in the waning moments of the game.

I'm a ******* fan and have been since age 13. I'm hoping the Cowboys continue to struggle and the Redskins finally take it to the Cowboys. 

Very interested in following the USU Aggies this year. In the past have not really liked them but they are the only Blue team that seems to be putting things together. 

And how about Finau being picked for the Ryder Cup team. Local boy making good. Wishing him birdies and the U.S. team a victory.

Usually follow the Dodgers but no interest in baseball this year.

Finally, this weekend I will be fly fishing a great mayfly hatch that get the trout really looking up this time of year. Cold clear waters and native cutts. Can't wait!


----------



## Vanilla

HighNDry said:


> Finally, this weekend I will be fly fishing a great mayfly hatch that get the trout really looking up this time of year. Cold clear waters and native cutts. Can't wait!


You've got my attention...


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never used the word fight. That's on you.. You were the one who wanted to pour beer on me. I was just simply offering a chance. You wouldn't take it..
> 
> 
> 
> You're right. And it didn't have any other insinuation with it. And neither did your post to Catherder to meet face to face to talk smack have any other implication either. Finally, neither did you have any other motive when bringing religion into this first out of everyone. And we already know you never have, and never will say anything you regret. Got it!
Click to expand...

I'm in no way saying I'm innocent here. When I'm guilty, I except it and I have guilt in this conversation.
Don't act like I was the only one to bring all this up, it takes 2 to argue..

How would you know if I wanted to get together for a yodeling contest or something???


----------



## PBH

goosefreak said:


> When I'm guilty, I except it


Yep. Bingo. Winner, winner. Where's the chicken?

(FWIW -- most of us except when we're guilty)


----------



## goosefreak

PBH said:


> goosefreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> (FWIW -- most of us except when we're guilty)
> 
> 
> 
> Show me where your accountability is for all you guys trash talk...
Click to expand...


----------



## wyoming2utah

Goose...I think you missed the point of that last post. Not sure, but it seems that way...PBH would you kindly "except" the responsibility of explaining your meaning?


----------



## Vanilla

I'm not excepting anything. I'm fine including it all.

Including a huge win over Washington on Saturday night. I hope we can pull it off, it would be a program type win for our squad.


----------



## GaryFish

How is this thing at 9 pages?


----------



## PBH

GaryFish said:


> How is this thing at 9 pages?


accept it.

unless you except it.


----------



## CPAjeff

GaryFish said:


> How is this thing at 9 pages?


I love these nine pagers! It has a nostalgic feeling reminding me of all those fixed vs. mechanical broadheads, SFW, Expo Tags, and 6.5 Creedmoor for elk threads that always go for a solid nine plus pages!


----------



## HighNDry

GaryFish said:


> How is this thing at 9 pages?


We went from sports, to religion, to beer, to fighting, to excepting, to fly fishing, back to sports, then just accepting.

I'm worn out.


----------



## Vanilla

Nobody is fighting anyone. Don’t worry about that. And I’m starting to question this rumored mayfly hatch too. Pics, or it didn’t happen!


----------



## goosefreak

Thats all you guys got?? Dang this stupid Iphone's inconsistent spell check!
I'm not sitting around waiting to fire off the next insult with the job I have. Iv got to make'em quick... 
Now that I'm home I'm ready to brawl...

The reason why there are 9 pages is because ("is because" who talks like that?) Is because everyone on here is a child!

thats why I hate talking Schmidt online, nothing gets accomplished. Thats why I'd rather "meet you at the bar" . You guys can drink your chitty natty lights while I out drink you on Dr. Pepper's and we can talk schmidt all night and save the poor folks around here from having to read this childish chitt...


----------



## Vanilla

Oh, lots has been accomplished in this thread. I’ve had a few really good laughs, and laughter is good for the soul. We’ve established why people are so annoyed by BYU fans. We’ve determined that w2u and PBH need to repent of their evils ways and come back to the good side. (Go Cowboys!) And maybe, just maybe, HighandDry is going to post some fish pics. Unless he made the whole thing up. Jury is still out on that one. I could go on, but I feel this is enough for tonight. 

I don’t drink beer. (What would I pour on BYU fans if I drank it?) What else ya got for me? An ice cold Diet Dew always makes me have the warm fuzzies inside. Just sayin...


----------



## goosefreak

Vanilla said:


> Oh, lots has been accomplished in this thread. I've had a few really good laughs, and laughter is good for the soul. We've established why people are so annoyed by BYU fans.


We've also established that Ute fans are some of the more conceited people this planet has to offer.. Dont forget that one..


----------



## Vanilla

I haven’t conceded much here. I probably should do more of that, you’re right about that.


----------



## goosefreak

okay, Arrogant, self entitled, gay, whatever you want to call it..

We have also established that most Ute fans can talk chitt but, arent willing to back it up.

Striking matches and running like a coward when the fire starts.. Just like a Ute fan do


----------



## goosefreak

we have also established that Ute fans have little to no accountability for the things they say. Also we have established that Ute fans talk chitt, then turn around and deny talking chitt, hence the accountability issue. We have also established that Ute fans think they are part of the team.. I mean, and it goes on, and on, and on, and on like this

I'll give you one thing, you Ute fans sure know how to play a broken record...skip, skip,skip,skip.........skip


----------



## Vanilla

goosefreak said:


> I'd rather die! I think Utah is a good team and I root for them when they dont play the Y but, I dislike the Ute fan base.. I'm not saying cougar fans dont talk smack but, Ute fans go out of their way to verbally terrorize diminish and talk down on individuals, their families, religion and anything else they stand for if they are a BYU fan. There's smack talking and then there is being an azz hole!
> 
> Not saying you are, I'm saying Ute fans in general. I cant even go to a church meeting like EQ without a Ute fan making sure to go out of his way to get the last word in on a BYU fan. Besides when "we" do beat the Utes, it will be the ultimate climax!! GO BLUE!!


This was the post that got this entire discussion started. I'm just going to leave this one here for a while...


----------



## Vanilla

I totally knew I should have quoted your “conceded” post too. You’re figuring out the edit button, so at least we’ve made some progress! But if you edit, then there is no accountability. So, are you really a Ute fan? 

Have a cold Dr Pepper and settle down, goose. You’re getting way too wound up. Some of us went to bed last night. You ought to try it.

PS- Go Utes!


----------



## PBH

goosefreak said:


> We've also established that Ute fans are some of the more conceited people this planet has to offer.. Dont forget that one..


These kind of comments always make me laugh. And don't think I'm bashing a BYU fan for this either -- it's a two-way street.

I have to wonder: Would a Duke fan living in N.C. think the same thing about a Ute fan? Or would that Duke fan say "hell no! UNC fans are much more conceited!".

What about the UNC fan?

When BYU fans talk about Ute fans being the worst fans in the world, it really makes me wonder if those fans have ever stepped foot outside of Happy Valley.

speaking of pouring beer on people: I had this happen once. I was wearing my Cowboys jacket in Candlestick Park during the NFC Championship game (January 15th, 1995). I had hotdogs thrown at me too. Mustard and beer on my pretty blue and silver. There was good news: by the end of the 1st quarter those same fans felt much sympathy for me, and left me alone the rest of the game. That was the day Steve Young became a star.

49er fans are the most conceited people on the planet. (ie: I've never been to a Raiders game)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## HighNDry

Vanilla,
I'm tech illiterate for the most part so I probably won't post pictures of the fish and mayflies. Besides, the trout I catch usually won't churn the butter for most anglers. Most of the fish will be 10 to 13-inchers but boy are they beautiful and fun to catch.

The mayfly hatch is not the typical BWO. This hatch is larger mayflies. At first, I thought they were green drakes or gray drakes. I caught a few and they look like green drakes which seems weird to be hatching mid to end of September. I haven't done a lot of study on them, but they might be flavilinea mayflies. It's an interesting hatch. When they start hatching the fish get real active and start chasing them. I've seen trout move 6 feet across the water surface trying to nail a natural. 

I like to fish hoppers in the fall and have actually fished a hopper right through this mayfly hatch with good success. I think the hatch just gets the fish looking up and willing to feed. 

If I can figure out how to post pictures, I will.


----------



## Vanilla

PBH said:


> speaking of pouring beer on people: I had this happen once. I was wearing my Cowboys jacket in Candlestick Park during the NFC Championship game (January 15th, 1995). I had hotdogs thrown at me too. Mustard and beer on my pretty blue and silver. There was good news: by the end of the 1st quarter those same fans felt much sympathy for me, and left me alone the rest of the game. That was the day Steve Young became a star.


You were at this game? Holy crap! I still remember it like yesterday, and I'm still angry about it. If Jerry and Jimmy check their egos, *we* win 4 in a row, if not more.

Stupid 49ers!


----------



## Vanilla

HighNDry,

10-13 inch pretty trout are my cup o' tea! Bring em on. 

And yes, this late mayfly hatch can be a thing of wonder. Had a video sent to me by a buddy recently where you couldn't see anything other than those buggers.


----------



## wyoming2utah

Vanilla said:


> You were at this game? Holy crap! I still remember it like yesterday, and I'm still angry about it. If Jerry and Jimmy check their egos, *we* win 4 in a row, if not more.
> 
> Stupid 49ers!


Ask him who he rode next to on the airplane ride over...then, you will really be impressed!


----------



## Vanilla

You two get to have all the fun. I want to be a heppy one day.

Please tell that jacket was a Starter jacket? And please tell me you still have it!


----------



## PBH

lol!

I sat next to Alvin Harper's mother on the plane. She told me that would be Alvin's last game as a Cowboy. She was right!



Vanilla said:


> I still remember it like yesterday...


Yeah. I remember it too. I remember 1 minute into the game (3rd play of the game!) watching Eric Davis return an interception for a touchdown. Then, on the very next offensive play, Irvin fumbled. 49ers scored almost immediately again. The Cowboys then fumbled the kickoff, giving the 49ers the ball, yet again, in scoring territory. It was 21-0 seven minutes into the game!

I guess on the bright side, I was able to escape Candlestick with only a few mustard stains and a bruised ego.
I will admit -- the fans were much, much friendlier the rest of the game / day. 



Vanilla said:


> Please tell that jacket was a Starter jacket? And please tell me you still have it!


Yes. And, yes.


----------



## GaryFish

So while we're on the subject, a couple years ago, our church youth group did a fund raising auction. So years ago, before I found God (fly fishing), I used to spin fish a lot. And I made my own spinners. So for the auction, I made up a couple dozen trout lures and donated them to the auction. Well, the guy that bought them, loved them. So every time I see him, he talks about those lures. Anyway, he is going up for his annual trip to Alaska here next week, to chase the pinks around with spinners. Last year when he was on the river, he ran into another fisherman that was just killing them. So he chatted him up because that is what we do in Idaho - we are friendly to one another. So the super fisherman he meets is an autistic man. Those familiar with autism know that autistic people (like my son) will obsess over something, and they will know more about that one subject than any team of PhDs you could assemble. Anyway, this autistic salmon fisherman obsessed over spin fishing for salmon, and built his own lures. So he was kind enough to share a couple with my friend. So my friend brought them over to me and asked if I could make him some. So I ordered up the parts from a couple of different on-line shops and have been building spinners with rubber squid skirts called "Hoochies" for my buddy so he can take them up to Alaska next week. I'll have to take a pic and post it up.










So, back to the topic at hand - is BYU back. All I know, is I sat in my TV room, watching the BYU-Cal game, and made 50 spinners with rubber hoochies!

As for obnoxious fans - my brother called me a couple months back, to tell me that he ended up on an airplane sitting next to an NBA ref, who was on his way to another game. This was an east coast flight, from New York to Atlanta I think. So out of curiosity, my brother asked the guy - what city has the worst fans. The replied - without a doubt - Salt Lake City. Curious, my brother asked him why. The guy said something to the effect that Salt Lake fans THINK they know basketball, but really are the most ignorant to it. Then they couple that with their desire to be incredibly vocal with their ignorance. He said he gets a lot more F-words in cities like Boston, New York, and Philly, but that isn't nearly as obnoxious as loud idiots that don't know boo one about the game, but yell at you constantly. Interesting perspective.

Tight lines guys. May your rubber hoochies keep you in pinks.


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## Vanilla

GaryFish said:


> So I ordered up the parts from a couple of different on-line shops and have been building spinners with rubber squid skirts called "Hoochies" for my buddy so he can take them up to Alaska next week. I'll have to take a pic and post it up.


Pics, or it didn't happen!



GaryFish said:


> As for obnoxious fans - my brother called me a couple months back, to tell me that he ended up on an airplane sitting next to an NBA ref, who was on his way to another game. This was an east coast flight, from New York to Atlanta I think. So out of curiosity, my brother asked the guy - what city has the worst fans. The replied - without a doubt - Salt Lake City. Curious, my brother asked him why. The guy said something to the effect that Salt Lake fans THINK they know basketball, but really are the most ignorant to it. Then they couple that with their desire to be incredibly vocal with their ignorance. He said he gets a lot more F-words in cities like Boston, New York, and Philly, but that isn't nearly as obnoxious as loud idiots that don't know boo one about the game, but yell at you constantly. Interesting perspective.


These are just the BYU Jazz fans. Clearly not the Ute Jazz fans. It's science.



GaryFish said:


> Tight lines guys. May your rubber hoochies keep you in pinks.


Are you trying to win the internet today? Because if you are...well done!


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## wyoming2utah

GaryFish said:


> As for obnoxious fans - my brother called me a couple months back, to tell me that he ended up on an airplane sitting next to an NBA ref, who was on his way to another game. This was an east coast flight, from New York to Atlanta I think. So out of curiosity, my brother asked the guy - what city has the worst fans. The replied - without a doubt - Salt Lake City. Curious, my brother asked him why. The guy said something to the effect that Salt Lake fans THINK they know basketball, but really are the most ignorant to it. Then they couple that with their desire to be incredibly vocal with their ignorance. He said he gets a lot more F-words in cities like Boston, New York, and Philly, but that isn't nearly as obnoxious as loud idiots that don't know boo one about the game, but yell at you constantly. Interesting perspective.


Hah...try being a basketball coach with those obnoxious fans!


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## HighNDry

GaryFish, I think I can appreciate the autism stuff. I was a youth leader who had an autistic kid around 15-16 years old. We went on a 5 mile hike and he got my ear. He was fascinated by the Titanic. The whole hike he told me the dimensions of the ship, how many rooms, what it was made of, detail after detail. I just let him talk the whole time. It actually took the focus off the miles and before I knew it we had made it to our destination and I knew more about the Titanic than I ever would have. Kind of fun.


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## GaryFish

Vanilla said:


> Pics, or it didn't happen!


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## PBH

Nothing better than a really big picture of a lot of hoochies!!

schwing!


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## Vanilla

I don’t even know how to fish those things, and they still look glorious!


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## CPAjeff

Whoa - BYU actually beat the U at something?!?!?!

https://www.ksl.com/article/46390798/byu-volleyball-survives-first-test-as-no-1-sweeping-no-24-utes

*Disclaimer - I don't root for BYU or Utah, but I enjoy stirring the pot a little.  Honestly, I think both schools have their own individual merits for academic purposes and would love for my kids to go to either school - depending on what they wanted to do for a profession.


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## Vanilla

Why don’t you just go create a spreadsheet or something?


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## CPAjeff

Vanilla said:


> Why don't you just go create a spreadsheet or something?


Maybe I will . . . 

On a brighter note, Green Bay, New England, and Alabama are all undefeated. Alabama is rolling and really won't be tested until November when they descend upon Death Valley to crush LSU. See, being a bangwagoner truly is easier!

#gopackgo
#tomvstime
#rolltide


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## Vanilla

While we’re on tangents, any high fence whitetail hunts planned out there in Texas this year? :grin:


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## CPAjeff

Nope - that’s not really for me. I actually took a job back in Utah and we are probably going to buy a home in Evanston - so there will plenty of hunting opportunities in the future!


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## Vanilla

Congrats! 

Go Utes!


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## Critter

Good thing that the Y's football team doesn't read this forum. 

Into the third quarter and they are up on #6 Wisconsin 21-14


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## CROC

Is BYU back? YUP!!!!!


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## goosefreak

What a GAME! and I missed it! I was sitting in a Dove field listening to it in my truck.

Sounded like some good o'l smash-mouth football


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## Catherder

OK, great win for the cougs. Congrats to them for putting it all together yesterday. :smile:


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## wyoming2utah

So, I have watched all of BYU's games and all of Utah's games so far...personally, I think BYU looks like the better team. And, even though they stunk it up offensively agains CAL, their offense isn't nearly as inept as Utah's has been.

That was a fun win for BYU...BYU's offensive and defensive fronts look pretty darn tough to me!


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## PBH

wyoming2utah said:


> That was a fun win for BYU...


That was a fun win for the fans too!

On the other hand, that was an abismal loss for Ute fans. Remind my why the media keeps calling Utah's offense "prolific"?

After seeing two ejections for targeting, I wondered: "do these players listen to the local media hype?"

And why did they keep trying to kill Covey in the 4th?


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## wyoming2utah

Britain Covey won't last the year if Huntley keeps hanging him up to dry...Utah's offense stinks. Their receiving corps outside of Covey is terrible.


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## Catherder

wyoming2utah said:


> Britain Covey won't last the year if Huntley keeps hanging him up to dry...Utah's offense stinks. Their receiving corps outside of Covey is terrible.


+1. The national broadcast crew was unsparing in their criticism of the coaching staff , Huntley, the receivers, and the offense in general, except for Covey. IMO, it was all deserved. It was also about as painful to watch Saturday as anything in recent memory.

It was annoying as heck to hear the media hype up offense this year and then rant and rave now that they have the same old, same old results. Among fellow Utefans that I associate with, we were far more cautious.

Another reason for me to swear off sports talk radio.


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## PBH

wyoming2utah said:


> They [AM 700 ESPN Radio] drive me nuts. This time their conversation focused on the Y game and they questioned whether BYU should change QBs because of their struggles against Cal and talked about how Squally Canada is a poor running back who can't make the first tackler miss. They mentioned in the same conversation that the U's struggles offensively were due to a very good NIU team--a team that would have no problem beating the Y..


the irony!


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## wyoming2utah

Yeah...i've been thinking the same thing since Saturday. They went as far as saying that Mangum should be benched so that BYU could look to their future and the Wisconsin game was the perfect game to do it because BYU had zero chance of winning. The funny thing is that Mangum played well and Canada had a great game. Bill Reilly is an idiot.


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## Catherder

wyoming2utah said:


> Yeah...i've been thinking the same thing since Saturday. They went as far as saying that Mangum should be benched so that BYU could look to their future and the Wisconsin game was the perfect game to do it because BYU had zero chance of winning. The funny thing is that Mangum played well and Canada had a great game. Bill Reilly is an idiot.


Yeah, Reilly and Kall 700 is basically unlistenable, but 1280 is not much better and was just as attached to the preseason Ute hype train as 700 was. They also were talking about benching Mangum last week. I wonder what they will say today?


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## GaryFish

I gotta say, after living 20 years on the Wasatch Front, I'm dang happy not to live there among the sports radio any more. In East Idaho, we have a sports station that just plays the ESPN national feed. It is refreshing to not hear all the holy war rivalry crap, the local blow hards going on and on about how great either school is or isn't. The national feed is pretty interesting because they accurately point out things like Notre Dame is no longer nationally relevant, and that only about 8-10 teams even have a chance at anything big - and they are right about that. BYU and Utah are both blips, anomalies in the national college football discussion. So, yea. I certainly don't miss the Utah Sports talk radio one single bit.

As for the weekend - the BYU-Wisconsin game was a fun one for a Cougar Fan. With no more hoochies to make, I just kicked back and enjoyed the game in between getting my garage ready for winter. It had me thinking about this thread - Is BYU back - and I guess maybe. Though, it is clear that wins against top 10 teams are incredibly rare- even in the glory days of LaVell. I'll begin believing that BYU is something bigger than a niche taste in college football at best, when they quit putting up banners in the stadium for each of the "Big Wins" against ranked teams. Its like the Jazz and division champion banners. Sure it was a nice win, but if that is your bar, then you are not among the elite. 

I do love my school, and have been a Cougar Fan for life. But realism plays a role. BYU is a nice program. The games are entertaining. And in my 4 decades of following the team, losing seasons can be counted on one hand. And that is about as good as a fan could ask for. And I'm ok with that. Go Cougs!


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## Vanilla

Garyfish, going all reasonable on us and completely breaking down stereotypes of BYU fans! 

Great win by the kuugs. In my opinion, that is the program's best win since Miami in the early 90s. 

Bad loss by the Utes. The offense consistently shot itself in the foot over and over and over again. Heaven forbid you turn around and hand it to your NFL caliber running back who is averaging over 5 yards per carry and the only thing working on that side of the ball all night. While a record of 2-1 at this juncture with a loss to Washington was probably what most people were expecting before the season started, that one felt like more than one loss. It will be a shame if they can't get things figured out offensively over the next few weeks, because they will waste a very, very good defense if they don't. (again)


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## GaryFish

Vanilla said:


> Great win by the kuugs. In my opinion, that is the program's best win since Miami in the early 90s.


There have been some other really great wins, either because they were against national teams, or because they were just plain fun. The '96 win at home over Texas A&M was a fun one. The Taysom Hill beatdowns on Texas in '13 and '14 were a great time. Beating Oklahoma in '09 in Arlington was epic. The 59-0 demolition of UCLA in '08 was near perfection. The last two wins over Utah in '07 and '09 that inspired the Max Hall rants were legendary. The '96 Cotton Bowl was a classic as well. But my point is - as Cougar Fans we remember those games like a high school geek remembers dancing with a hot girl too nice to say no at his first junior high dance. Sure it was great, and if you close your eyes, you can still smell junior high perfume and sweat and hair spray while you slow danced to Bon Jovi singing Never Say Good-Bye (not necessarily a specific example) as if it were yesterday, but if that is still your best memory - well, that is just sad. When those memories are blurred out by dancing with lots of hot girls, at lots of dances in high school and on through college - to the point that you can't remember NOT dancing with hot girls - well then - then you have arrived.

Now, maybe on my way home I'll pick up some aquanet hair spray and obsession perfume for my wife, she can crank up the big hair, I can dig up a bottle of polo and black AC/DC concert shirt from the closet and we can find that old mix tape simply labeled "Oh YEA!" in sharpie, and just pray no one breaks a hip.


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## Vanilla

GaryFish...

(Insert continuous slow clap here)


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## HighNDry

So Vanilla. I did take some pictures but not sure how to post them on here from my phone. A description of one fantastic day of fly fishing will appear in the fly fishing section. Almost unbelievable!


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## Huge29

I sure didnt see that one coming, I would have spotted them the line of 22 points


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## Huge29

Who started this silly thread, they certainly are back...to the Gary Crowton days. I heard the halftime score and didnt bother watching a single play. I predicted such a blowout they have looked terrible. Wisconsin was just a complete fluke.


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## HighNDry

PATHETIC!!! And now we get to hear Kalani Sitake's famous post game speech to the media that is becoming so familiar: "We just need to be better. This is on me. Somehow, we just have to figure out how to win. We just need to prepare better. We have to find a way to score...blah, blah, blah!

At this point, I'd take all the starters and sit them down. I'd start the second string. If players want to bail and find another team to play for , then Mendenhall was right--he wants players that WANT to come to BYU to play.

Mangum is done. Sit him and see what that freshman can do. Isn't insanity doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results? The camera kept showing Sitake on the sidelines shaking his head. Stop shaking your head and do something. Pull a few quitters out and sit them. Play a different player. Get some fire going and put it under a few players. How long will you be embarrassed before changing things up?

This team stopped playing after the first two touchdowns by USU.

Not taking anything away from USU. I predicted they would win by a similar score to last year. But I can tell when a team quits and this BYU team quit!


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## Catherder

HighNDry said:


> PATHETIC!!! And now we get to hear Kalani Sitake's famous post game speech to the media that is becoming so familiar: "We just need to be better. This is on me. Somehow, we just have to figure out how to win. We just need to prepare better. We have to find a way to score...blah, blah, blah!


IDK, what is he supposed to say? Proclaim his team sucks and throw them under the bus? The season is only half over.

I have tried to avoid all Sports talk radio the past few weeks, but in reading the comment section of the Sunday paper, cougarfans are in frothingly rare form with their current anger. It almost is like the Wisconsin win was a cruel tease.

I hope the Stanford win doesn't become the same thing for Utefans.


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## HighNDry

Catherder said:


> IDK, what is he supposed to say? Proclaim his team sucks and throw them under the bus? The season is only half over.
> 
> I have tried to avoid all Sports talk radio the past few weeks, but in reading the comment section of the Sunday paper, cougarfans are in frothingly rare form with their current anger. It almost is like the Wisconsin win was a cruel tease.
> 
> I hope the Stanford win doesn't become the same thing for Utefans.


Have you ever listened to other coaches post game? They describe plays and defensive situations that didn't work or did work. They talk about blocking and controlling the line. They talk about pass efficiency or lack thereof. They know what is going on. Sitake just saying we need to play better shows he doesn't know what to do or that he thinks the media and fans are too stupid to understand an explanation.

I remember a junior high coach (yes junior high) that had a play go up the middle against his defense for 15 yards. He subbed out the middle linebacker and told the player right on the sidelines he was off the team. The kid told the coach he wanted to play and the coach told him to walk around the whole field and then come and tell him he wanted to play. The kid walked around the field, came to the coach and said I want to play. The coach said then go back in there and show me by sacking the QB. The kid went in and did just that! I was there to witness the whole discussion and watch how motivated that kid was. Coaches can motivate players to compete. BYU is not competing. You can still compete even if you lose. Instead of standing on the sidelines shaking his head, Sitake should be coaching during the game. Just my opinion.


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## wyoming2utah

HighNDry, your rant reminds me why BYU fans drive me crazy. In watching that game, it was clear that Utah State had better athletes than BYU. I am not so sure that Utah State isn't the best football team in Utah, in fact. What this game reminded me of was the uphill task Sitake and his crew have in recruiting players to BYU. Not only do they have the honor code to compete with, but they also are not a member of any conference. I'm sorry, but not all of this is on Sitake. Some of it is on the decision makers behind the mistake of taking BYU out of the Mountain West and making them independents. Bronco was smart in jumping ship when he did!

But, in watching the same game you did, I saw no indication that players weren't trying to win and coaches weren't trying to coach....perspective is everything!


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## wyoming2utah

Huge29 said:


> Wisconsin was just a complete fluke.


I don't think so. I just think Wisconsin was a good matchup. Wisconsin's game is to overpower their opponents with a physical run game that BYU was able to match up against. USU, on the other hand, spread things out and made BYU defend open space. I would argue that USU had superior athletes at the skill positions than BYU and, as a result, was able to exploit BYU's defense. Wisconsin attacked BYU's strength and BYU beat them at their own game.

It is very similar to what has happened to the Utes--Washington State and Mike Leach were not a good matchup for the Utes and, despite a pretty good defensive effort, one 90 yard play doomed the Utes. By way of contrast, Stanford's run game--especially without Bryce Love--was a good matchup for the Utes. And, despite giving up a ton of yards through the air, the Utes prevailed, in my opinion, at leat partially due to Stanford relying on passing the ball more than they are accustomed to.

To me, the seasons for both Utah and BYU have come back to matchups...both got big wins when they faced teams that played into their strengths and lost when they played teams who didn't.


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## GaryFish

Gotta give props to the Aggies. They were faster, better prepared, and better game planned. Aggies earned it and outplayed the Cougars.


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## Catherder

wyoming2utah said:


> Bronco was smart in jumping ship when he did!


Remember how much complaining came from cougarfans about Bronco the last few years of his tenure? Think they'd take him back now? What do you think H&D? All Bronco ever used to say in his pressers was about being "assignment sound" and getting better.


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## MuscleWhitefish

HighNDry said:


> Have you ever listened to other coaches post game? They describe plays and defensive situations that didn't work or did work. They talk about blocking and controlling the line. They talk about pass efficiency or lack thereof. They know what is going on. Sitake just saying we need to play better shows he doesn't know what to do or that he thinks the media and fans are too stupid to understand an explanation.
> 
> I remember a junior high coach (yes junior high) that had a play go up the middle against his defense for 15 yards. He subbed out the middle linebacker and told the player right on the sidelines he was off the team. The kid told the coach he wanted to play and the coach told him to walk around the whole field and then come and tell him he wanted to play. The kid walked around the field, came to the coach and said I want to play. The coach said then go back in there and show me by sacking the QB. The kid went in and did just that! I was there to witness the whole discussion and watch how motivated that kid was. Coaches can motivate players to compete. BYU is not competing. You can still compete even if you lose. Instead of standing on the sidelines shaking his head, Sitake should be coaching during the game. Just my opinion.


USU just came out and dominated. That is it. It looked like BYU could do nothing to slow the USU train. You can say it was all on BYU, but the reality is that USU is just a better team. Better Quarterback, Better Running backs, Better Wide Receivers and Tight Ends.

The Refs tried to help BYU. USU had two obvious Touchdowns that were called out of bounds. BYU had a massive hold right in front of the official on their first TD. It did not matter, because USU imposed their will on BYU.


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## wyoming2utah

I remember attending a Nike coaching clinic a number of years ago...I was sitting down in one session waiting for Bronco to begin his speaking and watched with bewilderment as a bunch of other coaches began to file out when Bronco took the podium. As they walked out, he started reeling off his record at BYU and talked about the consistency of his programs. The point was well-taken...like him, love him, call him boring or simply too vanilla, or whatever, bottom line, though, the guy won!

I attended a practice session with our football team at BYU during his first season as well...at that time, I predicted that Bronco was the better hire over Whittingham (we have attended Utah's as well). I was so impressed with his intensity and the quality of his practice that I was sure BYU would be lights out...


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## HighNDry

I always liked Bronco. I was one fan that tried to sing his praises--even his recruiting philosophy about getting players that want to play there and that he shouldn't have to beg them to come to BYU. Yes, he was similar in post game comments and always talked about execution but he did talk about execution. I can understand execution. Never did I see him just shake his head on the sidelines, however.

wyoming2utah, I said the week before the game I thought USU looked like the better team and thought they would win by a similar score to last year. Part of my saying some players quit comes from some people who had access to game film and could watch it over and over and in slow motion when needed. These men (who have played college level and higher football) said that in watching the film it was very evident that BYU players were quitting on the plays after the initial hits. They said the defense was not pursuing to the ball after an initial block etc.

GaryFish, I'm not taking anything away from USU. They are everything you said they are. I'm not so concerned about the winning as I am in seeing a team that plays hard to the end. I just wanted to see a team compete and what I am seeing is a team similar to last year that just didn't compete. There is no fire or motivation in "some" players--at least it isn't being displayed during the game--again, my opinion.

I guess I am the typical BYU fan. And I'm glad it bugs you guys. I believe sports is just as much about the fans and their insights, feeling, and fun as it is for the coaches and players. If you guys are OK with just sitting back and watching a game and just saying "Oh my team sucks," that is great for you.


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## wyoming2utah

Watching sports at virtually every level, there is a point when an athlete loses all hope and is broken. As a coach, I often refer to that point as the wheels coming off. I believe that once my team hits that point it is important for me to get those players out and start giving back-ups an opportunity to play. Usually, when players reach that point of lost hope, the game is out of reach. The difficulty is that players reach that point and give up hope at different times. Sometimes, players will still compete even when the game is lost and a coach can build upon any positives that come out after a game is lost. What you are talking about is a very difficult line to judge--when and who to sub out. There is a reason those players are ahead of the others...as a coach, we always hope to find some glimmer of hope in a bad situation. I would probably give props to Sitake for still looking for the positives out of guys who have obviously shown the ability to be the best on their respective team.


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## GaryFish

Utah State is putting together a really nice season. They might be the best nonP5 in the country. Their offense really is good - the BYU game was no fluke for them. They are playing really good football this year. 

One frustration as a CougarFan that I've had with my other CougarFans is that they fail to acknowledge when other teams are good. All the post game comments from coaches, and pattered by fans, is that somehow BYU did something wrong, and if they fix it, then they will win. But the thing is, sometimes the other team is just better, with better athletes, and better coached. And even if BYU fixes all their ills, will still get beat. And that is fine. That is EVERY team in the country as compared to Alabama.

Utah State has a really nice team. And no matter what BYU fixes, Utah State will beat them with their current team.


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## Vanilla

wyoming2utah said:


> The point was well-taken...like him, love him, call him boring or simply too vanilla...


I take serious offense to this! I can't stand Bronco.

HighNDry, I don't mind any criticism you have of the coach and/or coaches. They are big boys and getting paid lots of money to deal with that. I think it's a bit harsh to call the players quitters. I don't think they quit, I think they got beat, and beat by a superior team. I watched every snap of that game, and as one that enjoys watching BYU's misfortunes on the football field, I wouldn't call those kids quitters in that game.


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## HighNDry

Vanilla said:


> I take serious offense to this! I can't stand Bronco.
> 
> HighNDry, I don't mind any criticism you have of the coach and/or coaches. They are big boys and getting paid lots of money to deal with that. I think it's a bit harsh to call the players quitters. I don't think they quit, I think they got beat, and beat by a superior team. I watched every snap of that game, and as one that enjoys watching BYU's misfortunes on the football field, I wouldn't call those kids quitters in that game.


I based it on performance after each snap. Initially, they looked like they were really trying but after that there was a lot of standing around. The defense should be swarming to the end of each play not standing around watching their teammates.


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